Ex-Premie.Org |
Forum I Archive # 4 | |
From: May 14, 1997 |
To: May 21, 1997 |
Page: 5 Of: 5 |
Date: Fri, May 16, 1997 at 12:14:41 (EDT)
Poster: Douche Email: To: Everyone Subject: Resign, Big M, resign... Message: ...the devil and a friend of his were walking down the street when they saw ahead of them a man stoop down and pick up something from the ground, look at it, and put it away in his pocket. The friend said to the devil: 'What did that man pick up?' 'He picked up a piece of truth said the devil. 'That is a very bad business for you, then,' said his friend. 'Oh, not at all,' the devil replied, 'I am going to let him organise it.' This is the start of the Krishnamurti's resignation speech I've been searching for. To take a look at the full transcript go to For anyone who hasn't heard of Krishnamurti, he had a similar background to Maharaji, being brought up from a child to believe he was divine. The web site above has further links for anyone interested. (I'm not a follower - one guru was more than enough for me!) Douche P.S. There are a couple of hints in the 'post a new message' dialog box about hitting your own carriage returns and typing in br para tags. I read this bulletin board in both Navigator and Explorer and it doesn't seem to matter whether I follow these instructions or not. Does anyone find my posts come out without para and line breaks? Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, May 16, 1997 at 12:17:51 (EDT)
Poster: Douche Email: To: all Subject: Re: Resign, Big M, resign... Message: Where did the URL address go to? It's www.rain.org/~kfa/pathless.html. I put it between those backwards and forwards arrows hoping it would enable readers to click and go straight there. Where did I go wrong, Scott? Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, May 16, 1997 at 14:30:40 (EDT)
Poster: Chris Email: To: Douche Subject: Re: Resign, Big M, resign... Message: Yes, it is when we try to analyze and organize 'truth' too much that we get in to trouble. Of course our egos say that that is the way to go. Have you ever tried to swim against a rip tide? M is doing positive things. No reason to resign. CD Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, May 16, 1997 at 14:44:18 (EDT)
Poster: Mili Email: To: Chris Subject: Re: Resign, Big M, resign... Message: Resign to whom? The only obligation he has is towards HIS master. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, May 16, 1997 at 15:38:11 (EDT)
Poster: JW Email: To: Chris Subject: Re: Resign, Big M, resign... Message: Doing positive things? My, the praise you lavish on that man! Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, May 16, 1997 at 18:37:52 (EDT)
Poster: Jim Email: To: Chris Subject: Re: Resign, Big M, resign... Message: Chris, are you too afraid of your mind to actually speak in full sentences? Or how about answering questions? How about answering my basic questions about Maharaji's wishes vis-a-vis your participation here? See, Chris, the 'trouble' you're so frightened of isn't YOUR trouble, it's your ideas' trouble. Your ideas get challenged, not you. See how it works? No, you don't do you? Oh well. Look, is there someone here who can explain this point to Chris? Maybe get him out his shell a bit? Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, May 19, 1997 at 00:06:46 (EDT)
Poster: Scott Email: To: Dave Subject: Re: Resign, Big M, resign... Message: Where did the URL address go to? It's www.rain.org/~kfa/pathless.html. I put it between those backwards and forwards arrows hoping it would enable readers to click and go straight there. Where did I go wrong, Scott? Dear Dave, - Here is the 'html' code to make a url link work in this forum, (or in any html document): <a href:"http://putyoururlhere">Put the text you want to show as the underlined URL here</a> . - By the way, those tips on the 'Start your new thread page' are no longer necessary. I'll take them down one of these days. - As for the small windows to write your replies into, Dave, I didn't write that part of the forum, that was part of the package that I am unable to alter from my end. Maybe one of these days I'll be able to talk Bill at Paradise Forums into improving this. - Scott Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, May 20, 1997 at 14:49:32 (EDT)
Poster: David Email: To: Scott Subject: Re: Resign, Big M, resign... Message: Many thanks for the info. I'll give it a test.... To read Krishnamurti's resignation speech, click here . BTW, it wasn't me compaining about the small window. But I'm afraid I did ask whether you could again post the explanation of how to view the posts off-line. Onwards and upwards David. P.S. Did my two emails get through? Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, May 20, 1997 at 15:13:18 (EDT)
Poster: op Email: To: David Subject: Re: Resign, Big M, resign... Message: Nope, didn't work. At least not on my server - and other links do work. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, May 20, 1997 at 15:17:52 (EDT)
Poster: David Email: To: Scott Subject: Re: Resign, Big M, resign... Message: I'm sorry Scott, I don't know why that one didn't work. I followed your instructions to the letter but, as you can see, nothing came out. This is the URL I tried to type (I used the actual arrow symbols but I know if I type them here, everything between them will disappear)... 'arrow symbol'a href:http://www.rain.org/~kfa/pathless.html'arrow symbol'. I wasn't sure what you meant when you said show the underlined URL as 'arrow' /a 'arrow'. I gave it a go by just putting some xxxxxs between the arrows but nothing came out. David P.S. I left school at 16. They said I was unteachable! Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, May 20, 1997 at 15:25:31 (EDT)
Poster: op Email: To: David Subject: Re: Resign, Big M, resign... Message: I'm going to try. I THINK this is the speech you're talking about. Truth is a pathless land Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, May 20, 1997 at 15:27:09 (EDT)
Poster: op Email: To: op Subject: Re: Resign, Big M, resign... Message: Nope. Didn't work either. I'll try something else. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, May 20, 1997 at 15:28:24 (EDT)
Poster: Douche Email: To: op Subject: Re: Resign, Big M, resign... Message: Hi odl, I don't think I'd ever get a job as a computer programmer. Or even a computer programmer's tea maker! I hope Scott doesn't think I'm being too demanding. In some newsgroups I'm told that such questions are often met with a brisk LITFM! You are you doin'? The evil son of Deena gave you quite an ear-bashing. I don't know how you can live with yourself! The question of Realis(z)ation seems to have died a death. You never did tell me whether you maneged to discover anything. Or are you bored with that one as well? Onward and upward Douche Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, May 20, 1997 at 15:31:45 (EDT)
Poster: op Email: To: op Subject: Re: Resign, Big M, resign... Message: This is a test. This is just a test. Truth is a pathless land Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, May 20, 1997 at 15:36:08 (EDT)
Poster: op Email: To: op Subject: Re: Resign, Big M, resign... Message: one more try Truth is a pathless land Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, May 20, 1997 at 15:37:15 (EDT)
Poster: op Email: To: op Subject: Re: Resign, Big M, resign... Message: I give up. It works on my e-mail. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, May 20, 1997 at 15:47:51 (EDT)
Poster: Douche Email: To: op Subject: Re: Resign, Big M, resign... Message: You should be able to find it by tping the URL shown in my second post under this heading, but that would be cheating. Are you any more computer literate than me? Scott has given the instructions in his post and I've put the address in as he explained, but I've obviously done something wrong. Any clues? If you've got a few minutes, you try it. I'll be very impressed if you can make it work. I'll even stop talking about Realis(z)ation (for a while). Douche P.S. I'm going to work out my frustrations on the exercise bike for an hour or so, followed by a quick bit of meditating. I managed the taste technique for only the third time this year last night and I'm determined to keep it up! Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, May 20, 1997 at 15:49:29 (EDT)
Poster: Douche Email: To: odl Subject: Re: Resign, Big M, resign... Message: I see you have tried... and fared no better than me! Scott.... Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, May 20, 1997 at 21:53:09 (EDT)
Poster: Scott Email: To: Douche Subject: Re: Resign, Big M, resign... Message: Dear David, - I read the 'source code' you wrote and you made two minor errors. Instead of writing: <a href="http://www.rain.org/~kfa/pathless.html">xxxxx& lt;/a> you wrote: <a href:"http://www.rain.org/~kfa/pathless.html"></a xxxxx>
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Date: Wed, May 21, 1997 at 00:12:02 (EDT)
Poster: op Email: To: Scott Subject: Re: Resign, Big M, resign... Message: Why bother? You've made the link. It's now called xxxxx. What I'd like to know is why you can write out the entire path and it still appears as characters on our screens, but when we write out the path it disappears and we're just left with the xxxx? Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, May 21, 1997 at 03:51:39 (EDT)
Poster: Douche Email: To: Scott Subject: Re: Resign, Big M, resign... Message: Thanks Scott, So for one more time, to read Krishnamurti's resignation speech, just click here And if this doesn't work, I'll resign! Douche Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, May 21, 1997 at 03:53:36 (EDT)
Poster: Douche Email: To: Everyone Subject: Re: Resign, Big M, resign... Message: Oh joy upon joy! I think I'll frame it! Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, May 16, 1997 at 04:20:20 (EDT)
Poster: Mili Email: To: Everyone Subject: Song of the Nightingale Message: Song of the Nightingale This is the story of a nightingale that occasionally sang in the garden of an emperor. One day, the emperor became very sick. He was not able to eat, and he went to bed feeling very sad. The nightingale came and sat outside the emperor's window and said, I will sing for you and make you better. My song is sweet. Let me come in. When the emperor opened his window, the nightingale perched by his bed an started to sing. Immediatlely, the emperor felt better. After singing for some time, the nightingale finally flew away. The next time the nightingale came, the emperor was waiting with his bedroom window already open. So the nightingale flew in and sang its sweet song, and the emperor continued to improve. Time after time, the nightingale would come, and the emperor felt very happy. It was wonderful. But there was one problem for the emperor. He had to wait for the nightingale to arrive each time. He could only hear this wonderful song when the nightingale came, which was whenever it decided to come. The emperor did not lke this arrangement because he was used to giving orders, not taking them. One day, a neighboring king offered the emperor a mechanical bird, which, when wound up, would sing. The emperor felt really happy because now he could command this bird to sing. He was fascinated. Whenever he wanted to, he would wind up the little bird, listen to it sing, an then laugh an laugh. No longer did the real nightingale come to the emperor's palace because the window had been closed. The emperor did not need the nightingale anymore - or so he thought. Some time passed, and then one day, the mechanical nightingale broke and was not able to sing. The emperor now had not only lost the real nightingale, but the mechanical bird as well. In his desperation, he started to understand what a gift he had been given by the nightingale, even though it was not something he could control. The emperor began to leave his window open again. Each day, he would stand by the window and call out, but the nightingale would not come. Finally, the emperor became very ill, and he had to be put to bed. The news of his illness spread thoughout the realm. The nightingale heard that her emperor was sick, so she came and sat down on the brach outside his bedroom window and started singing. The empeor heard and became very excited. He asked that his window be opened, and he invited the bird to come in. The nightingale agreed on one condition. I will sing to you when I want to sing to you, she said. If you want a mechanical bird, fine. But if you want to hear my song, then you have to be ready when I am ready. Maybe when we were young, we, too, heard a nightingale and felt something beautiful. We felt the randomness of life; we felt the flow of a river. Soon, we wanted a mechanical nightingale. We wanted spontaneity to be on standby for us, to be at our command. Yet none of our inventions have given us the beautiful song within. We try to contain life, but it does not work. Life wants to flow. - Maharaji Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, May 16, 1997 at 05:17:37 (EDT)
Poster: Brian Email: To: Mili Subject: Re: Song of the Nightingale Message: I am convinced, Mili! Now, quick -- where do I send my video money? Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, May 16, 1997 at 11:22:39 (EDT)
Poster: Jim Email: To: Brian Subject: Re: Song of the Nightingale Message: Yes, I want one too! Video! Video! We want videos! Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, May 16, 1997 at 11:23:54 (EDT)
Poster: JW Email: To: Mili Subject: Re: Song of the Nightingale Message: Song of the Nightingale This is the story of a nightingale that occasionally sang in the garden of an emperor. One day, the emperor became very sick. He was not able to eat, and he went to bed feeling very sad. The nightingale came and sat outside the emperor's window and said, 'I will sing for you and make you better. My song is sweet. Let me come in.' When the emperor opened his window, the nightingale perched by his bed an started to sing. Immediatlely, the emperor felt better. After singing for some time, the nightingale finally flew away. The next time the nightingale came, the emperor was waiting with his bedroom window already open. So the nightingale flew in and sang its sweet song, and the emperor continued to improve. Time after time, the nightingale would come, and the emperor felt very happy. It was wonderful. But there was one problem for the emperor. He had to wait for the nightingale to arrive each time. He could only hear this wonderful song when the nightingale came, which was whenever it decided to come. The emperor did not lke this arrangement because he was used to giving orders, not taking them. One day, a neighboring king offered the emperor a mechanical bird, which, when wound up, would sing. The emperor felt really happy because now he could command this bird to sing. He was fascinated. Whenever he wanted to, he would wind up the little bird, listen to it sing, an then laugh an laugh. No longer did the real nightingale come to the emperor's palace because the window had been closed. The emperor did not need the nightingale anymore - or so he thought. Some time passed, and then one day, the mechanical nightingale broke and was not able to sing. The emperor now had not only lost the real nightingale, but the mechanical bird as well. In his desperation, he started to understand what a gift he had been given by the nightingale, even though it was not something he could control. The emperor began to leave his window open again. Each day, he would stand by the window and call out, but the nightingale would not come. Finally, the emperor became very ill, and he had to be put to bed. The news of his illness spread thoughout the realm. The nightingale heard that her emperor was sick, so she came and sat down on the brach outside his bedroom window and started singing. The empeor heard and became very excited. He asked that his window be opened, and he invited the bird to come in. The nightingale agreed on one condition. 'I will sing to you when I want to sing to you,' she said. 'If you want a mechanical bird, fine. But if you want to hear my song, then you have to be ready when I am ready.' Maybe when we were young, we, too, heard a nightingale and felt something beautiful. We felt the randomness of life; we felt the flow of a river. Soon, we wanted a mechanical nightingale. We wanted spontaneity to be on 'standby' for us, to be at our command. Yet none of our inventions have given us the beautiful song within. We try to contain life, but it does not work. Life wants to flow. - Maharaji Perhaps Maharaj Ji should also be sued for plagerism. I distinctly recall seeing this story told on the Captain Kangaroo show when I was a child. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, May 16, 1997 at 11:34:30 (EDT)
Poster: Jim Email: To: JW Subject: Re: Song of the Nightingale Message: Song of the Nightingale This is the story of a nightingale that occasionally sang in the garden of an emperor. One day, the emperor became very sick. He was not able to eat, and he went to bed feeling very sad. The nightingale came and sat outside the emperor's window and said, 'I will sing for you and make you better. My song is sweet. Let me come in.' When the emperor opened his window, the nightingale perched by his bed an started to sing. Immediatlely, the emperor felt better. After singing for some time, the nightingale finally flew away. The next time the nightingale came, the emperor was waiting with his bedroom window already open. So the nightingale flew in and sang its sweet song, and the emperor continued to improve. Time after time, the nightingale would come, and the emperor felt very happy. It was wonderful. But there was one problem for the emperor. He had to wait for the nightingale to arrive each time. He could only hear this wonderful song when the nightingale came, which was whenever it decided to come. The emperor did not lke this arrangement because he was used to giving orders, not taking them. One day, a neighboring king offered the emperor a mechanical bird, which, when wound up, would sing. The emperor felt really happy because now he could command this bird to sing. He was fascinated. Whenever he wanted to, he would wind up the little bird, listen to it sing, an then laugh an laugh. No longer did the real nightingale come to the emperor's palace because the window had been closed. The emperor did not need the nightingale anymore - or so he thought. Some time passed, and then one day, the mechanical nightingale broke and was not able to sing. The emperor now had not only lost the real nightingale, but the mechanical bird as well. In his desperation, he started to understand what a gift he had been given by the nightingale, even though it was not something he could control. The emperor began to leave his window open again. Each day, he would stand by the window and call out, but the nightingale would not come. Finally, the emperor became very ill, and he had to be put to bed. The news of his illness spread thoughout the realm. The nightingale heard that her emperor was sick, so she came and sat down on the brach outside his bedroom window and started singing. The empeor heard and became very excited. He asked that his window be opened, and he invited the bird to come in. The nightingale agreed on one condition. 'I will sing to you when I want to sing to you,' she said. 'If you want a mechanical bird, fine. But if you want to hear my song, then you have to be ready when I am ready.' Maybe when we were young, we, too, heard a nightingale and felt something beautiful. We felt the randomness of life; we felt the flow of a river. Soon, we wanted a mechanical nightingale. We wanted spontaneity to be on 'standby' for us, to be at our command. Yet none of our inventions have given us the beautiful song within. We try to contain life, but it does not work. Life wants to flow. - Maharaji Perhaps Maharaj Ji should also be sued for plagerism. I distinctly recall seeing this story told on the Captain Kangaroo show when I was a child. Really? Then I want to change my order. Can I get a Captain Kangaroo video? Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, May 20, 1997 at 13:16:10 (EDT)
Poster: Mili Email: To: Jim Subject: Re: Song of the Nightingale Message: There once was a captain named Roo, Who loved to eat premies in stew, When they spoke of their hearts He smelt only farts And said 'Add some more salt, that will do!' Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, May 20, 1997 at 13:28:12 (EDT)
Poster: Jim Email: To: Mili Subject: Re: Song of the Nightingale Message: There once was a captain named Roo, Who loved to eat premies in stew, When they spoke of their hearts He smelt only farts And said 'Add some more salt, that will do!' Nothing, and I mean NOTHING's worse than a limerick that doesn't scan properly. You've got that one extra syllable in the last line and THAT, dear Mili, is the sstory of your life. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, May 20, 1997 at 13:31:09 (EDT)
Poster: Jim Email: To: Jim Subject: Re: Song of the Nightingale Message: There once was a captain named Roo, Who loved to eat premies in stew, When they spoke of their hearts He smelt only farts And said 'Add some more salt, that will do!' Nothing, and I mean NOTHING's worse than a limerick that doesn't scan properly. You've got that one extra syllable in the last line and THAT, dear Mili, is the sstory of your life. On second thought, I was WRONG! It scans fine. I was in my mind. It's still stupid by the way. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, May 15, 1997 at 11:24:40 (EDT)
Poster: Jim Email: To: Everyone Subject: Well? Message: Okay, here are some re-tread, re-hashed but nontheless unanswered, questions for the premies among us (if the format's wierd it's b/c I've tried to copy from the archive): Here are a few slightly recycled questions: 1) Why do premies hang here instead of on pro-Maharaji pages (like Harlan's or Mili's)? 2) Why don't the premies on Harlan's premie guestbook actually talk with one another? Are they afraid? If so, of what? 3) Maharaji has clearly prohibited premies from advertising his glories on any but the most personal one-to-one basis. It's okay to tell your workmates. It's not okay to hold a company seminar. He's also made it clear that he does not want to have a presence on the internet. One could safely assume that, if he were asked, he would order premies to NOT talk about him, let alone for him, on the internet. All the worse, I'm sure, on an ex-premie page. How do you premies, Chris, OP and Mili justify being here? 4) If there's any question about Maharaji's wishes (and after all, he's the one with the master plan), shouldn't you ask him if he minds your involvement? Shouldn't you ask him if he minds you describing, projecting, justifying, second-guessing and sometimes even criticising him? 5) How do you know he isn't completely pissed off that you premies are even acknowledging a web site where people regularly call Maharaji a little fat fraud artist or worse? 6) Do you want to know what he really wants or would you rather ignore his wishes? 7) Do you think Maharaji knows what goes on here? 8) Do you care? Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, May 15, 1997 at 17:53:03 (EDT)
Poster: Mili Email: To: Jim Subject: Re: Well? Message: My, my, my. It seems you are really pissed that there are different voices and opinions being expressed here from your own. Do you want to have an ethnically clean forum? Scott doesn't mind our posting, so why should you? We do talk to each other, but not on the guestbook. It's a guestbook, not a discussion forum. But, you are right. This is getting to be a drag. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, May 15, 1997 at 20:52:23 (EDT)
Poster: Jim Email: To: Mili Subject: Re: Well? Message: My, my, my. It seems you are really pissed that there are different voices and opinions being expressed here from your own. Do you want to have an ethnically clean forum? Scott doesn't mind our posting, so why should you? We do talk to each other, but not on the guestbook. It's a guestbook, not a discussion forum. But, you are right. This is getting to be a drag. Just as I figured. Too cowardly and dishonest to answer the question. Mili, you idiot, I didn't ask about Scott's attitude about your posting here. I asked if you thought Maharaji cares. Again: 1) Do you think Maharaji wants you to participate in this debate? 2) If you don't know, do you want to know? 3) Do you care what Maharaji wants? Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, May 16, 1997 at 02:33:16 (EDT)
Poster: Mili Email: To: Jim Subject: Re: Well? Message: My, my, my. It seems you are really pissed that there are different voices and opinions being expressed here from your own. Do you want to have an ethnically clean forum? Scott doesn't mind our posting, so why should you? We do talk to each other, but not on the guestbook. It's a guestbook, not a discussion forum. But, you are right. This is getting to be a drag. Just as I figured. Too cowardly and dishonest to answer the question. Mili, you idiot, I didn't ask about Scott's attitude about your posting here. I asked if you thought Maharaji cares. Again: 1) Do you think Maharaji wants you to participate in this debate? 2) If you don't know, do you want to know? 3) Do you care what Maharaji wants? Hey, I like it when you are so direct! Now I can call you names, too! 1)Maharaji wants me to do what I want to do. 2)I know, I know! 3)It's none of your business. Now, here's what I think of you: you are a wimp sleazy alcoholic lawyer who is too deep in his own shit to walk away from it. You are so full of your own questions like infested with parasites, man. The greatest fault in Maharaji that you can come up with is that he is short and fat. Man, you shouldn't mock people because of their bodily appearance - that really speaks about your lack of culture and simple human denency. As for the 'fraud' bit - that's something you are just repeating as a mantra, it sort of spurs you along your miserable way. But does it really mean something? What does it mean? He is not a fraud, because people do have experiences with the Knowledge (even Mishler testifies to that). So, why should he be a fraud if he is simply saying that Knowledge can bring you a beautiful experience, and you can have it, too! You are the one who is a fraud, man. You present yourself as Mr. Know-it-All, yet you are just a deluded jerk. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, May 16, 1997 at 05:42:53 (EDT)
Poster: Brian Email: To: Mili Subject: Re: Well? Message: Now, here's what I think of you: you are a wimp sleazy alcoholic lawyer who is too deep in his own shit to walk away from it. You are so full of your own questions like infested with parasites, man. The greatest fault in Maharaji that you can come up with is that he is short and fat. Man, you shouldn't mock people because of their bodily appearance - that really speaks about your lack of culture and simple human denency. As for the 'fraud' bit - that's something you are just repeating as a mantra, it sort of spurs you along your miserable way. But does it really mean something? What does it mean? He is not a fraud, because people do have experiences with the Knowledge (even Mishler testifies to that). So, why should he be a fraud if he is simply saying that Knowledge can bring you a beautiful experience, and you can have it, too! You are the one who is a fraud, man. You present yourself as Mr. Know-it-All, yet you are just a deluded jerk.
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Date: Fri, May 16, 1997 at 10:36:28 (EDT)
Poster: Mili Email: To: Brian Subject: Re: Well? Message: Look Brian, this conversation is between Jim and me. Why don't you go and buy yourself a lollipop, or something? Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, May 16, 1997 at 11:10:26 (EDT)
Poster: Jim Email: To: Mili Subject: Re: Well? Message: My, my, my. It seems you are really pissed that there are different voices and opinions being expressed here from your own. Do you want to have an ethnically clean forum? Scott doesn't mind our posting, so why should you? We do talk to each other, but not on the guestbook. It's a guestbook, not a discussion forum. But, you are right. This is getting to be a drag. Just as I figured. Too cowardly and dishonest to answer the question. Mili, you idiot, I didn't ask about Scott's attitude about your posting here. I asked if you thought Maharaji cares. Again: 1) Do you think Maharaji wants you to participate in this debate? 2) If you don't know, do you want to know? 3) Do you care what Maharaji wants? Hey, I like it when you are so direct! Now I can call you names, too! 1)Maharaji wants me to do what I want to do. 2)I know, I know! 3)It's none of your business. Now, here's what I think of you: you are a wimp sleazy alcoholic lawyer who is too deep in his own shit to walk away from it. You are so full of your own questions like infested with parasites, man. The greatest fault in Maharaji that you can come up with is that he is short and fat. Man, you shouldn't mock people because of their bodily appearance - that really speaks about your lack of culture and simple human denency. As for the 'fraud' bit - that's something you are just repeating as a mantra, it sort of spurs you along your miserable way. But does it really mean something? What does it mean? He is not a fraud, because people do have experiences with the Knowledge (even Mishler testifies to that). So, why should he be a fraud if he is simply saying that Knowledge can bring you a beautiful experience, and you can have it, too! You are the one who is a fraud, man. You present yourself as Mr. Know-it-All, yet you are just a deluded jerk. Mili, You say M wants you to do what you want. Really? Remember how Danette and Katherine (or whatever their names were) specifically cautioned against even TALKING about Maharaji on the net? Remember how they said that he had said he chose to not have a presence here? Remember how they said he'd said he didn't want to be mentioned? Remember any of that? Do you think they were lying? You must, because look what you've done: 1) You've started your own Maharaji web page. 2) You've put up the old satsang of one of Maharaji's main lackeys who, apparently, quit Maharaji's camp some time ago in disgust. What an embarrassment that must be for Maharaji, huh? 3) You've mixed and matched M's precious wisdom with a bunch of other 'spiritual' greats, man yof whom Maharaji might well say are themselves frauds. You know how he's always said there can only be one perfect master at a time? As I remember it, he was never too big on giving credit to particular living competitors. As for dead ones, he had a few he liked -- Kabir, Kabir, Kabir. But you've put him up there with a whole bunch of guys. Wonder how he likes that, huh? 4) You've threatened people in his name and made complete idiot of yourself. Worse, becuase he's so silent and you're so not, you're actually becoming something of an unofficial mouthpiece for Maharaji on the net! Who's M? Why he's some part Mili, some part OP and some part Chris, that's who! You say Maharaji wants you to do 'what you want.' Are you sure? Who told you that? Especially when it comes to using his name, I DON'T THINK SO! Yet you say 'I know, I know'. Is that a lie, Mili? Finally, Mili, you argue that it's none of my business. No, it's not, but it IS yours. Are you being honest here? Are you really being honest with Maharaji? Are you being honest with yourself when you say and do all this? Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, May 16, 1997 at 13:45:24 (EDT)
Poster: Mili Email: To: Jim Subject: Re: Well? Message: Jim, you are the master of sophistry and misinterpretation. Your only mistake is that you assume that everybody is an idiot except yourself. We all have brains and we can think for ourselves. Maharaji has never stated anything to the contrary. The thing is, you are persistently trying to paint an unrealistic picture both of Maharaji and premies. Premies are just ordinary people, the kind of people you meet at work and in the street. We all have our own ideas and interpretations about everything, just as you do! The beautiful thing is, Mji has nothing against it. He always just reminds people of the fundamental thing, inside. He doesn't criticize or condemn, the way you do. He is not the iron-clad dictator that you want to present him as. What you have written above, is exactly what you are accusing Mji of: you are trying to make me conform to your stupid idea of a group think that you figure we allegedly have. You perfidiously position yourself as some kind of idiotic intermediary between Maharaji and me. You are really underestimating my intelligence by doing that. But, that's just your usual arrogance. Yes, Maharaji IS Chris, OP, and Mili. Speaking for myself, I haven't always kept my cool here, but I think I got the main message through. And if you must know, the only direction that I have gotten from Mji as to how to go about it so far is - follow your own heart. I am very well aware of what clomes closer, and what is not so close to the way things really are. Now, basically, trying to turn you around is a vain effort. You are too old, and steeped in your own sick mire of negativity. But I have long ago abandoned the effort of opening your eyes for you. If you want to live in your collective ex-premie group think, that's your choice. If I ever lost it and threatened anybody that was in my own name, and nobody's else's. That's so simple, even a child could understand it. I still dare you to tell me to my face, instead of over the Internet, all of the sick and nasty things that you indulge in here. But, of course, you would never do it. Coward. Don't forget that you were one of Maharaji's lackeys once, too! You still are - here you are trying to interpret his wishes to me! Basically what you are doing is getting back at your boss. Well, he's gonna have the final word, you know. We'll all be enjoying ourselves at a festival while you are going to be rotting in the ground and pushing up daisies somewhere. Do you think you will never die? Wrong. Now I'm beginning to see - cancer, AIDS, heart disease - that was all invented for creeps like you. As for my honesty, I really don't need a loser without a consicence such as you to be passing comments about it. Look at your own honesty! You once promised to try to be a disciple. At what point did you go back on your promise? Or, were you dishonest from the very beginning? That's why it didn't work out for you, my queer friend. As honest as you ever were to Maharaji, that's how honest you could have expected him to be to you. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, May 16, 1997 at 14:27:19 (EDT)
Poster: JW Email: To: Jim Subject: Re: Well? Message: Okay, here are some re-tread, re-hashed but nontheless unanswered, questions for the premies among us (if the format's wierd it's b/c I've tried to copy from the archive): Here are a few slightly recycled questions:' '' '1) Why do premies hang here instead of on pro-Maharaji pages (like Harlan's or Mili's)?' '' '2) Why don't the premies on Harlan's premie guestbook actually talk with one another? Are they afraid? If so',' of what? ' '' '3) Maharaji has clearly prohibited premies from advertising his glories on any but the most personal one-to-one basis. It's okay to tell your workmates. It's not okay to hold a company seminar. He's also made it clear that he does not want to have a presence on the internet. One could safely assume that',' if he were asked',' he would order premies to NOT talk about him',' let alone for him',' on the internet. All the worse',' I'm sure',' on an ex-premie page. How do you premies',' Chris',' OP and Mili justify being here?' '' '4) If there's any question about Maharaji's wishes (and after all',' he's the one with the master plan)',' shouldn't you ask him if he minds your involvement? Shouldn't you ask him if he minds you describing',' projecting',' justifying',' second-guessing and sometimes even criticising him? ' ' ' '5) How do you know he isn't completely pissed off that you premies are even acknowledging a web site where people regularly call Maharaji a little fat fraud artist or worse?' '' '6) Do you want to know what he really wants or would you rather ignore his wishes?' '' '7) Do you think Maharaji knows what goes on here?' '' '8) Do you care?' ' ' ' What's the current story about how MJ wants propogation to be done? Can someone hold an informal program in their own home, or doesn't MJ want that? What about the co-worker discussion vs. a company seminar issue? Is it true that one is okay but not the other? Has MJ said he doesn't want premies talking about him on the internet? Why? And I also wonder why some premie hasn't set up an interactive site like this one for ex-premies. Surely some premie must be bright enough to do that! Is it because GMJ doesn't want them to and how would they know that? Did he say that on a video. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, May 16, 1997 at 15:00:29 (EDT)
Poster: Jim Email: To: Mili Subject: Re: Well? Message: 'Queer'? No, seriously, where were we? Oh yeah, so I was asking you, do you think Maharaji wants you to be talking about him here on the net? Mili, that's a simple question. You remember Danette and others saying that he specifically didn't want a presence here, don't you? All I'm asking is if you care. 'Sophistry'? Mili, these are simple questions. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, May 16, 1997 at 15:36:30 (EDT)
Poster: JW Email: To: Jim Subject: Re: Well? Message: 'Queer'? No, seriously, where were we? Oh yeah, so I was asking you, do you think Maharaji wants you to be talking about him here on the net? Mili, that's a simple question. You remember Danette and others saying that he specifically didn't want a presence here, don't you? All I'm asking is if you care. 'Sophistry'? Mili, these are simple questions. Who is Danette and what was she saying about the net? Sounds like a line
from a song.
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Date: Fri, May 16, 1997 at 16:10:57 (EDT)
Poster: Jim Email: To: JW Subject: Re: Well? Message: JW, Danette was this premie apologist who started off as nice and cheerful as OP and deteriorated to the level of chanting premie curses ('your heart will die and shrivel without him!' [not actual quote but you get the idea]) and condemninh me as a 'monmot' [an apostate from the Lord]. Everything short of a fatwa. I think you can find her ravings on the ex-cult archive -- go to the
newsgroup archive. Okay, I'll see if I can find something here. Let me see...
'WHOEVER YOU ARE, CHICKENSHIT, DECLARE YOURSELF. YOU ARE SUFFOCATING YOUR OWN SOUL, YOU STUPID FOOL.' Ask David Stirling if he's got any stuff of hers archived. We both had some fun with the bitch he ended up calling 'Dark Danette.' Then, there's Laura Green. I'm going to cut and paste this whole big thing here. It includes her warning to Mili to not put Maharaji on the net, his reply, her warning that she'll have to report him and Mili's I-don't-give-a-fuck reply. No wonder I'm addicted to this shit: Return-Path: Hello,
I also notice you have the WELL as the first link on your page, and that is
where I have one of my accounts -- are you a member?
My Reply:
Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 17:07:22 -0700 (PDT)
I am afraid that your page is accessable to the world as I found it with a
simple search via Alta Vista. You leave me no choice but to let Elan Vital
know about your page, as they have asked me to send in addresses of pages that
Maharaji would object to. If Maharaji would not want the page up, why do you
keep it. If you like to look at his face on the screen, put it in a local
file, not on the internet. Besides you have a VERY old picture.
My Reply:
To: mkrkovic@alf.tel.hr
It appears that you are not what you seem to be. YOU say you lova
Maharaji and yet you laugh in his face. I never said you were going to hell,
since I don't believe in hell. What I do believe is in a person's RIGHT to be
represented as they wish. You misrepresent Maharaji, and claim to be devoted
to him. You are a fake.
My Reply:
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Date: Fri, May 16, 1997 at 16:15:29 (EDT)
Poster: Jim Email: To: Jim Subject: Re: Well? Message: You almost have to like Mili when he's in his champion-of-freedom mode. Hey, ain't that Laura a piece of cake? She didn't even have knowledge yet by the way. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, May 16, 1997 at 20:17:20 (EDT)
Poster: Brian Email: To: Jim Subject: Re: Well? Message: Actually, I do like Mili. He champions the thoughts that keep people chained to giving MJ credit for every good thing in their lives including their life itself. Those were once my thoughts too, and I get to tell my(younger)self that he's confused. He doesn't see it, of course, because he's confused. He reminds me of Nately in 'Catch 22'. Nately had flies in his eyes. He couldn't see them, of course, because he had flies in his eyes. But they were apparent to others. As for his question 'Whatever
happened to spread Knowledge' -- That's what I was wondering when
I first read about the video games being played by EmGee.
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Date: Fri, May 16, 1997 at 20:47:40 (EDT)
Poster: JW Email: To: Jim Subject: Re: Well? Message: Those messages are hysterical. It sounds like Laura has an official job from Elan Vital to monitor these things, apparently including this site. Sounds like she could get huffy. Better be careful. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, May 16, 1997 at 21:01:27 (EDT)
Poster: Jim Email: To: JW Subject: Re: Well? Message: Those messages are hysterical. It sounds like Laura has an official job from Elan Vital to monitor these things, apparently including this site. Sounds like she could get huffy. Better be careful. Yes, I called her Maharaji's Hall Monitor. What a cupcake that one is! Anyway, I tried to post Mili's quotes on the premie page but, for some reason, I couldn't. Too bad. I thought they'd look great right above his 'diamonds are forever' piece. Wouldn't that be cool ---- 'this is Mili I'm gonna piss on your grave and smash yer face open. Maharaji's the Lord of Love!' Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, May 16, 1997 at 23:15:32 (EDT)
Poster: op Email: To: JW Subject: Re: Well? Message: Hi. I'm still here. Still cheerful. No Dark Danette for me thank you. Also still beset with deadlines, so just a few notes: - yes someone can hold an informal program in their own home - co-worker discussion is fine; I don't know what you mean by company seminar - please define. If one would like to do a video presentation at work, that's fine - and it's been done. There are emcees at events, and they speak a bit, but don't go into heavy details about what Knowledge is and I've already discussed why. I think it's pretty obvious why not to set up an interactive premie talk on the internet. You guys have made a public forum about private issues. Those who respect M's message would prefer to keep things private. There's plenty of e-mail between premies! Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, May 16, 1997 at 23:26:13 (EDT)
Poster: Deena to JW Email: To: JW Subject: Re: Well? Message: Hey JW- Propagation has a definate process that is well documented in instructions given to aspirant contact persons (like I use to be). And yes, it can be in the home, as long as it is kept extremely neutral. I was given the okay from three of MJ's people upon their viewing my abode. The videos shown are made specifically for aspirants and are really the main deal, meaning that the showing of them is how MJ prepares them for knowledge. After 5 months of viewing they are ready for the next phase which involves meeting with an instructor and then eventually with MJ for a question and answer session after which knowledge selection can proceed. It is all handled in the most excellent of fashions, very slick, first class presentation. My friend who went through this in the past year and a half was in L.A. and although MJ was suppose to be the one who showed the techniques of knowledge, he wasn't able to be there, so the whole thing was done from video only, with insturctors present to answer questionsl. Amazing difference from the old days huh? Also, it is true that advertising and one on one is how he wants it. However in India ( and I suspect in other countries ) they do advertise and it is brought to a villiage and presented to all at once by one person's invite. Does he encourage this there? He doesn't discourage it and the numbers of aspirants attests to this. He has made fun of the internet and I definately believe that since he clearly says he could advertise but doesn't, that he would not be in favor of the worldwide public advertisement that the internet most certainly is. I mean if anyone types Maharaji, there it is and I'm positive he prefers that nothing appear and he could continue to control what is said. But then again, if you don't want to be mistaken for a cult, wouldn't you do the same? Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, May 17, 1997 at 01:35:56 (EDT)
Poster: JW to Deena Email: To: Deena to JW Subject: Re: Well? Message: Hey JW- Propagation has a definate process that is well documented in instructions given to aspirant contact persons (like I use to be). And yes, it can be in the home, as long as it is kept extremely neutral. I was given the okay from three of MJ's people upon their viewing my abode. The videos shown are made specifically for aspirants and are really the main deal, meaning that the showing of them is how MJ prepares them for knowledge. After 5 months of viewing they are ready for the next phase which involves meeting with an instructor and then eventually with MJ for a question and answer session after which knowledge selection can proceed. It is all handled in the most excellent of fashions, very slick, first class presentation. My friend who went through this in the past year and a half was in L.A. and although MJ was suppose to be the one who showed the techniques of knowledge, he wasn't able to be there, so the whole thing was done from video only, with insturctors present to answer questionsl. Amazing difference from the old days huh? Also, it is true that advertising and one on one is how he wants it. However in India ( and I suspect in other countries ) they do advertise and it is brought to a villiage and presented to all at once by one person's invite. Does he encourage this there? He doesn't discourage it and the numbers of aspirants attests to this. He has made fun of the internet and I definately believe that since he clearly says he could advertise but doesn't, that he would not be in favor of the worldwide public advertisement that the internet most certainly is. I mean if anyone types Maharaji, there it is and I'm positive he prefers that nothing appear and he could continue to control what is said. But then again, if you don't want to be mistaken for a cult, wouldn't you do the same? Thank you, Deena. Very interesting. I know I have heard some of this propogation stuff before, but it just seems to inconsistent with GMJ's supposed mission to bring peace to as many people as will be open to it. The way it's set up now, it would take several thousand lifetimes. It appears he really has given up on the whole perfect master idea after all. Amazing. Do you think it was just all trial and error and he found that what he was doing didn't work and he's just trying somthing else now? But it would appear that what he is doing now isn't working either, at least in the sense that he has sunken into obscurity and unless someone happens to know a premie personally, there really isn't much chance of even finding out that the perfect master of our time is here and offering..... is it self-realization? or a revelation of your true self or the beauty within? Although I know OP will give me the answer she always gives, which it that it depends on what you mean by working,, just like it depends on what you mean by realization, or bringing peace to the world, or perfect master. It just seems that whenever there is a contradiction, as a premie you simply lower your expectations and then refrain from even expecting GMJ to even meet those. Knowledge from a video? Truly amazing. OP, if you read this, tell the truth. If you hadn't had those personal experiences with GMJ in 1971 and in the early 70s, would you even be involved in this thing? Do you think you would be getting involved now for the first time with NO personal contact and receiving knowledge from a video? Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, May 17, 1997 at 11:45:59 (EDT)
Poster: op Email: To: JW Subject: Re: Well? Message: And yes, it can be in the home, as long as it is kept extremely neutral. I was given the okay from three of MJ's people upon their viewing my abode. Perhaps different communities have different standards. Where I live, no one's house is investigated and okayed. If someone has a friend to show a video to, fine. If a person can't come to an intro event, he/she can borrow a video and watch it at home. If someone wants to hold regular events at their own home, it is discouraged IF there are children, pets, etc. that can create distractions, or if the events will be basically introductory and thus inviting the public, which protects the person's home as much as the event's ambiance. There is some care taken about where an intro event will happen; that doesn't seem absurd. Maharaji has done an intro event at a roundabout in Delhi. And, back to the original point, the person hosting the event is trusted to make a decision about whether it's an appropriate place or not. My friend who went through this in the past year and a half was in L.A. and although MJ was suppose to be the one who showed the techniques of knowledge, he wasn't able to be there, so the whole thing was done from video only, with insturctors present to answer questionsl. There have been some very few situations where M was not able to be there for the whole Knowledge session, such as when Marolyn was hospitalized. For the most part, he has been there. There are plans underway for working out a way for the instructors to run Knowledge sessions with the use of video if the numbers get too big for M to be physically present at all the sessions. This doesn't seem so far fetched considering that at the beginning many many people received Knowledge without any contact with M, some without ever having seen him at all - neither in video nor in person. What M is trying to do is keep up the quality of the Knowledge sessions, so there isn't a factory assembly line atmosphere about it. I know someone who received Knowledge in one of the sessions that M wasn't able to attend. She was a bit disappointed, but she'd had her aspirant interview with him, and was not at all disappointed by the session itself. She feels a great rapport with him and certainly doesn't seem to have suffered from learning the techniques by video. As to your question to me: I don't know. As I mentioned before, sometimes I feel like all the attention M showered on me WAS because I was such a skeptic - I demanded all sorts of proof, and it all came to me. Maybe it would have come in another way if I'd shown up in this day and age. But as I've also stated before, I dislike speculation. Things happen - the movement is from here on, not a remaking of the past. What I can tell you is of those who HAVE received Knowledge these days, and there seems to be (I really don't have statistics to back this up) a higher percentage of people who stick around with M running the Knowledge sessions himself. Knowledge from a video? Why not? Did you think the Mahatma's hand was a magical instrument that opened the doorway to your third eye? The only contact was for the first technique, the rest was explained. There was a time for questions. The video shows, on a large screen, M doing the techniques. If he is in the room with you, you see him also doing them in person. If M is there, and you have a question, you ask him. If you have a problem with a technique, there is an instructor in the room who will assist you with it. Maharaji also walks around the room watching how people do the techniques. At the very large Knowledge sessions, there are several instructors - certainly enough for each person to have individual attention if needed. If M is not there, you ask the instructor. If the instructor cannot answer the question, he will pass it on to Maharaji. Not too different from the old days, except that there is this screen where you get to watch your teacher doing the techniques. The emphasis is on individual experience. Each and every human being has the potential for complete understanding. M doesn't put people down; he reminds them that they are complete, that they are completely capable. If I had to go through 25 years of ups and downs to reach this point, it's all worth it. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, May 15, 1997 at 04:13:59 (EDT)
Poster: Douche Email: To: Everyone Subject: Realisation... what happened to it? Message: Am I the only one that remembers 'Realisation'? What happened to the idea that practicing the knowledge had a spiritual goal? That these were the same techniques shown by Jesus to his closest disciples in the Garden of Gethsemeni? Heaven, Enlightenment, Nirvana, Satori... all that sort of stuff? Odl has had to go back through her video collection to find any reference to 'Realisation'. She thinks it might be there somewhere but she's none too sure. The story in my day was that Big M reached 'Realisation' within minutes of being shown the techniques. Has that now been swept under the carpet with all the rest of that 'Lord of the Universe' crap? I finally left DLM just after M married his Californian air hostess, causing the rest of his unholy family to flounce off back to India in a huff. Was this the behaviour of enlightened people? I wondered. And if they couldn't reach a higher spiritual plane, what hope was there for little ol' me? I have no problem with BigM making his living selling videos promoting the meditation techniques. But what I find hard to forgive is that he refuses to come down from his ivory tower and tear down all the 'cult' trappings that have given him such a bad name. For Christ's sake (excuse the pun) can't he see the dangerous parrallels with the Hale-Boppers and others of that ilk? Last Autumn, someone posted Krishnamurti's resignation speech on the alt.support.ex-cult newsgroup. I'd love to find it again because it shows how someone in a similar position to Maharaji (raised from a young boy to think he was divine) finally managed to escape the chains that bound both him ands his followers. Does anyone know where I can find it? And does anyone else have any views on 'Realisation'? Perhaps it's lying tired and forgotten in odl's video collection. I think we should be told! Douche Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, May 15, 1997 at 09:07:13 (EDT)
Poster: Bill Email: To: Douche Subject: Re: Realisation... what happened to it? Message: hi david. you could use a different nickname ,im sure you have gotten Rod before, with your last name being sterling. work is delayed today cause of weather,and there is a cyber cafe here in this town. im working in northampton mass for a couple more weeks. the videos are being made. If you didnt request one, feel free to send your address to scott. he will not keep the address. im sure there will never be another video as revealing as this one. I read all your archived postings and they are interesting. you asked me a question once and i didnt fergit. I was blabbering on one day about how people always invite me to feel something worse. you said what people and what do they want you to feel? well,lets just take this morning, my five year old was at odds with the world this morning,even though i fixed his toy setup, and tickled him and offered him food he was saying shutup and being mad. during that 20 min he was feeling frustrated or whatever,im getting behind in my schedule , my wife is always in pain and she is crabby and informing me of new medical bills and that i have to pick up the 16 yr old from some new basketball thing that is really far away that she signed him up for without asking me. which would only be fair since i have to transport him. then i hear the thunder and that puts a crimp in work. i get in the car and before i put in a tape i listen to 3 dif radio stations and they are all comedy dj's but they are discussing subjects like,well stern is discussing apartide, the other is fund raising for kids, and the other is discussing sports and what bothers him about it today. Well what the hell am i talking about? Just this,each person was having an experience and coming from that experience. What they were feeling and what their words could trigger me to feel could completely rule my morning. 18 billion years of evolution just so i can be vulnerable to a mornings lineup like that. without changing any of that 3-d movie i can be safe and feel good because the breath in me feels good and that is comfortable and easily feelable. so even though everyone aroud me is in effect inviting me to feel all their feelings or are saying detonating type things to me i can sail past those moments by floating on my breath. unfortunately i have to go. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, May 15, 1997 at 12:15:17 (EDT)
Poster: JW Email: To: Douche Subject: Re: Realisation... what happened to it? Message: Am I the only one that remembers 'Realisation'? What happened to the idea that practicing the knowledge had a spiritual goal? That these were the same techniques shown by Jesus to his closest disciples in the Garden of Gethsemeni? Heaven, Enlightenment, Nirvana, Satori... all that sort of stuff? Odl has had to go back through her video collection to find any reference to 'Realisation'. She thinks it might be there somewhere but she's none too sure. The story in my day was that Big M reached 'Realisation' within minutes of being shown the techniques. Has that now been swept under the carpet with all the rest of that 'Lord of the Universe' crap? I finally left DLM just after M married his Californian air hostess, causing the rest of his unholy family to flounce off back to India in a huff. Was this the behaviour of enlightened people? I wondered. And if they couldn't reach a higher spiritual plane, what hope was there for little ol' me? I have no problem with BigM making his living selling videos promoting the meditation techniques. But what I find hard to forgive is that he refuses to come down from his ivory tower and tear down all the 'cult' trappings that have given him such a bad name. For Christ's sake (excuse the pun) can't he see the dangerous parrallels with the Hale-Boppers and others of that ilk? Last Autumn, someone posted Krishnamurti's resignation speech on the alt.support.ex-cult newsgroup. I'd love to find it again because it shows how someone in a similar position to Maharaji (raised from a young boy to think he was divine) finally managed to escape the chains that bound both him ands his followers. Does anyone know where I can find it? And does anyone else have any views on 'Realisation'? Perhaps it's lying tired and forgotten in odl's video collection. I think we should be told! Douche I am certainly no expert on realization, or as you Brits spell it realisation, but here is how I remember it historically. This might provide some insight since you say you left Maharaj Ji when he married Marilyn Johnson, which I think was in 1974. Now, what Maharaj Ji talks about now, I really can't say, but if it is anything like the satsang that is posted on Harlan's premie site, it consists mostly of simplistic platitudes. It's my recollection that beginning around 1977, after a brief fling with removing the god image of himself and attempting to portray himself as a humanitarian leader who was just giving meditation to people (whether instigated by Bob Mishler or GMJ or whoever), Maharaj Ji really stopped talking about realization, or even much about the practice of knowledge at all, and the emphasis became devotion to, surrender to, longing for, and loving of, Guru Maharaj Ji. And, as was the usual case, whatever Maharaj Ji talked about in his satsangs was picked up and parroted by the initiators and most of the premies in the satsang programs we all attended virtually every night. This is also the period when Maharaj Ji did programs for the premies (and hardly any introductory programs and there were very few aspirants) about every couple of months, did many darshan lines, and began dancing around the stages in Krishna crowns and naked-from-the-waste-up-except-for-a-flower-garland costumes. It was also the period when GMJ basically said that the purpose of a premie's life was to surrender his life and devote his life to Guru Maharaj Ji. Again, realization, or reaching some sort of spiritual goal within oneself was not mentioned, at least in my recollection. This was a big change from the way things had been, and I even recall thinking that at the time, even though by then I was pretty much programmed into accepting anything GMJ did without question, since he was god. If you read The Guru Papers, the authors say that after the guru discovers that the initial tide of people wanting to follow him is not going to continue and that it is basically over (for Maharaj Ji after about 1974), and he realizes that he really ISN'T going to bring peace to the entire world or meet the other outlandish goals he has publically stated, it's the normal course for the guru and the cult to turn in on itself, and become more rigid, more damanding of total dedication to the guru, and to be much more focused on the leader, rather than on the practice. He also tends to blame the devotees for being too un-surrendered (which he did) and to criticize the world for its failure to recognize him (which he also did). In this stage the guru also usually,in an attempt to reinforce his grandiose image of himself, seeks other forms of aggrandizement, like opulent homes, festivals and reinforcement from his adoring devotees. I think that motivation was at least partly behind GMJ wanting completely impractical and ridiculous things like an extravagant Boeing 707 jetliner, completely converted by premies, which he ended up hardly using, why the festivals became more extravagant with more dancing, regal outfits and darshan lines, and why GMJ demanded surrender and devotion from the premies, instead of just inspiring them and helping them to realize knowledge. So that's my view on what happened to realisation in Maharaj Ji's world. Now, after 1983, I don't know if he might have started talking about it again, but I think he did realize that he couldn't get away with the total-devotion-and-surrender stuff anymore, or he was going to lose most of the devotees he still had, and he had to do something else. I'm not exactly sure what the something else is. I think he intentionally keeps it vague and under the radar of the media to avoid attacks that he is just heading a cult. And also because the public climate has changed from the 70s and there is a lot less tolerance for cults and gurus and that sort of thing. The fact that OP, who must be described as an active premie, has to go and review videos to see if GMJ is even talking about realization probably is an indication that he doesn't say much about it. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, May 15, 1997 at 17:50:15 (EDT)
Poster: Douche Email: To: JW Subject: Re: Realisation... what happened to it? Message: Many thanks for the response JW, I must get hold of a copy of The Guru Papers. Do you know the ISBN number or author/publisher? I'd be interested to know how long you spent as a toe-kisser and when you fianally managed to pull away. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, May 15, 1997 at 18:04:42 (EDT)
Poster: Douche Email: To: Bill Subject: Re: Realisation... what happened to it? Message: hi bill love your stream of consciousness tell me bill are you still a practicing toe-kisser all that stuff about floating on your breath just so you can cope with the 3d movie of life, kids and a crabby wife makes me think you hold a flame for BigM next youll be telling us that sticking fingers in the eyes shortcuts 18 billion years of evolution but perhaps ive got you wrong. i can understand what your saying i just need a little more info to put the sayer in perspective time for bed Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, May 15, 1997 at 21:43:25 (EDT)
Poster: Jim Email: To: Douche Subject: Re: Realisation... what happened to it? Message: David, Shortly after you left M opened the door for anyone to apply for realization. Indeed, I still hve the form around here somewhere. If you were an ashram premie, and had not had a sexual experience (of any kind) for three years you were eligilble. You needed two initiator (aka instructor aka mahatma) nominations, four character references and, of course, the strong support of your local community coordinator (aka general secretary aka DUO director). In some places they asked for updated criminal records but M laughed about that and, as far as I know, withdrew that requirement. The main thing seemed to be the initiator support. This might have been a good idea in Shri Hans' day but soon proved a bad one in the late '70s. Why? One initiator after another started selling these endorsements for sexual favours. I know of at least one comely sister who had applied for realization but who advised me that three initiators had overcome her suspicions during their interviews. And I'll never forget how when I picked up visiting initiators at the airport ( a regular service I enjoyed regularly. It gave me a chance to drive a little and to avoid my other household service that day) the first question they'd ask was how many ashram premies had applied. I could swear I saw one initiator (who will remain unnamed because I understand he has since left Maharaji and is heavily involved with some very serious and scary international types) had a noticeable erection when he got out of the car. Apparently, his natural excitement at learning that the most beautiful premie in our community had not only moved into the ashram but had applied for realization had spread through his entire body. Yes, he told me, he would interview her immediately. I, too, applied for realization. I had the full support of many initiators who generally liked me for my winsome ways and steady driving. Mahatma Tejeshwaranand was my prime supporter (this was before his sexual activities surfaced. He certainly didn't try nothing on me). Anne Johnston also wrote letter on my behalf. There were others who'd offered to write something but the rules were clear -- two only, and I went with my heart. I waited for many months. Truly it was timeless. So much so that I started to wonder if this waiting itself was enlightenment. I prayed extra hard that year and even volunteered for my household duties. I stopped masturbating altogether. I expected that Maharaji would enlighten me. After all, Anne herself had no criminal record and, in retrospect, was probably the only premie who actually intimidated the Lord himself in off moments. Tej was a good solid saint as well. My record was otherwise clean. I'd written several nice premie songs and had recruited a whole slew of premies. Moreover, some fo the people who were realizing the knowledge struck me as decidedly inferior, all told, to me. I was sure I was next. Unfortunately, Maharaji cancelled the whole program that same year. Well, he didn't so much cancel it as let it die unattended. I remember asking my community coordinator to check up on my application sometime in '79. Of course it was critical that he ask carefully. How many parables are there that teach the simple truth that if you want it you don't get it? I knew I had to be careful. We were at a program, somewhere in Florida, sometime in 79. This was before Maharaji corrected things and all sorts of people were giving satsang. I remember my community coordinator telling me, in between speakers, that by the way, he'd gotten word that the program was on hold. No one would be realizing Knowledge for the next short while. I said nothing. What could I say? This path is razor sharp and I wasn't about to bleed all over. I closed my eyes, joined the last speaker in shouting out 'Bhole Shri..', then joined the new speaker in also shouting 'Bhole Shri..' -- all along feeling like shit, and went and got something to eat. The food at that program was okay. Not bad, but not good. Just okay. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, May 15, 1997 at 22:59:08 (EDT)
Poster: Bill Cooper Email: To: Jim Subject: Re: Realisation... what happened to it? Message: Jim over the last few months I think I have read every single one of your postings on this site. It didnt take me long to realize that a lot of what you say shouldn't be taken literally. You excel in sarcasm irony, litotes and hyperbole. You could almost be British!!! But I think the time has come to draw the line somewhere for all us upstanding males to say enough is enough. You stopped masturbating altogether ??!!!! Surely this is a literary device to illustrate some spititual significance and not meant to be taken literally? Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, May 16, 1997 at 11:05:29 (EDT)
Poster: JW Email: To: Douche Subject: Re: Realisation... what happened to it? Message: Many thanks for the response JW, I must get hold of a copy of The Guru Papers. Do you know the ISBN number or author/publisher? I'd be interested to know how long you spent as a toe-kisser and when you fianally managed to pull away. I will get you the ISBN number for The Guru Papers, but I need to get my copy of the book back. I can tell you that the authors are Joel Kramer and (Gloria? ) Alstad. The book was published by Frog Ltd. and distributed, I think, by North Pacific Press in Berkeley, California. It was published in 1993. I'll confirm all the above information and post the ISBN number later today. If you can't find a copy, I can mail one to you because I know at least one bookstore that always has the book in stock here in San Francisco. I received the divine knowledge in 1973, lived in various ashrams around the U.S. until 1983, and had several service positions in GMJ's world between 1978 and 1982. When I left, as you can tell from what I've said so far, I was very disillusioned and feeling fairly ripped off, but it took me several years after I left to even begin to look at the whole experience objectively. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, May 16, 1997 at 11:33:07 (EDT)
Poster: Jim Email: To: Bill Cooper Subject: Re: Realisation... what happened to it? Message: Jim over the last few months I think I have read every single one of your postings on this site. It didnt take me long to realize that a lot of what you say shouldn't be taken literally. You excel in sarcasm irony, litotes and hyperbole. You could almost be British!!! But I think the time has come to draw the line somewhere for all us upstanding males to say enough is enough. You stopped masturbating altogether ??!!!! Surely this is a literary device to illustrate some spititual significance and not meant to be taken literally? Yes, Bill, it's true. We gave all, as much as we could. That was the whole point. We sublimated everything. The few times I actually lost my self-control a bit -- and you could count them on one hand, sometimes many months or even years apart -- I felt absolutely terrible afterwards. Really. Like I was in my own, private hell. I had fallen. What's a litote? Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, May 16, 1997 at 11:46:06 (EDT)
Poster: Douche Email: To: Jim Subject: Re: Realisation... what happened to it? Message: Your post brought a tear to my eye, Jim. If you couldn't reach Realisation after all you went through, then what hope was there for a poor little Kleenex-soiler like me? Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, May 16, 1997 at 12:23:14 (EDT)
Poster: JW Email: To: Douche Subject: Re: Realisation... what happened to it? Message: Your post brought a tear to my eye, Jim. If you couldn't reach Realisation after all you went through, then what hope was there for a poor little Kleenex-soiler like me? Kleenex? Hmph. I required, at a minimum, a paper towel, but my meditation blanket came in handy in emergencies. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, May 16, 1997 at 12:24:14 (EDT)
Poster: JW Email: To: Douche Subject: Re: Realisation... what happened to it? Message: Your post brought a tear to my eye, Jim. If you couldn't reach Realisation after all you went through, then what hope was there for a poor little Kleenex-soiler like me? Kleenex? Hmph. I required, at a minimum, a paper towel, but my meditation blanket came in handy in emergencies. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, May 16, 1997 at 14:37:20 (EDT)
Poster: Douche Email: To: JW Subject: Re: Realisation... what happened to it? Message: They say it ruins the eyesight, JW. I could have sworn I just read that post. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, May 17, 1997 at 00:55:32 (EDT)
Poster: op Email: To: Douche Subject: Re: Realisation... what happened to it? Message: RE realis[z]ation: it's really just a question of semantics. I promised to go through videos to see how often M uses the term 'realization' as such. As for the message, it hasn't changed. A lot of ways to say the same thing - some are more subtle than others. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, May 17, 1997 at 01:53:43 (EDT)
Poster: JW Email: To: op Subject: Re: Realisation... what happened to it? Message: RE realis[z]ation: it's really just a question of semantics. I promised to go through videos to see how often M uses the term 'realization' as such. As for the message, it hasn't changed. A lot of ways to say the same thing - some are more subtle than others. Well, I strongly disagree that the message didn't change, at least between 1977 and 1983, from what it had been previously. GMJ went from advocating a path to realization to advocating devotion and surrender to himself. That was definitely a change and it wasn't subtle. I think anyone who was around through that period will have to admit that. Assuming Guru Maharaj Ji isn't talking about devotion and surrender anymore, that is yet another change. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, May 17, 1997 at 20:56:48 (EDT)
Poster: Jim Email: To: op Subject: Re: Realisation... what happened to it? Message: OP, You are a liar. You were around. You know that M used to explicitly urge us to 'go for broke' so to speak. Receiving knowledge was a start. 'Realizing' it was the next step. He dropped that concept around '75 as I recall. 'As for the message' -- IT'S CHANGED! Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, May 14, 1997 at 23:38:12 (EDT)
Poster: Scott Email: To: Everyone Subject: Forum Archive #7 Message: Dear Forum Participants, Forum Archive #7 was just started. Links should be working within the next hour or so. Scott
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