Ex-Premie.Org

Forum I Archive # 7

From: Jun 4, 1997

To: Jun 17, 1997

Page: 2 Of: 5


Chris -:- Hordes Swarm -:- Thurs, Jun 12, 1997 at 02:11:20 (EDT)
___Bill Cooper -:- Re: Hordes Swarm -:- Thurs, Jun 12, 1997 at 02:58:04 (EDT)
___Brian -:- Re: Hordes Swarm -:- Thurs, Jun 12, 1997 at 05:30:25 (EDT)
___Jim -:- Re: Hordes Swarm -:- Thurs, Jun 12, 1997 at 14:30:49 (EDT)
___Chris -:- Re: Hordes Swarm -:- Thurs, Jun 12, 1997 at 15:21:17 (EDT)
___Jim -:- Re: Hordes Swarm -:- Thurs, Jun 12, 1997 at 15:33:09 (EDT)
___Chris -:- Re: Hordes Swarm -:- Thurs, Jun 12, 1997 at 22:19:09 (EDT)
___Jim -:- Re: Hordes Swarm -:- Thurs, Jun 12, 1997 at 22:32:02 (EDT)

The Deena -:- The Cult Leader as Psychopath -:- Wed, Jun 11, 1997 at 13:36:11 (EDT)
___The Continued Deena -:- Re: The Cult Leader as Psychopath -:- Wed, Jun 11, 1997 at 13:58:40 (EDT)
___Chris -:- Re: The Cult Leader as Psychopath -:- Wed, Jun 11, 1997 at 18:51:08 (EDT)
___Jim -:- Re: The Cult Leader as Psychopath -:- Wed, Jun 11, 1997 at 19:08:37 (EDT)
___a former fool -:- Re: The Cult Leader as Psychopath -:- Wed, Jun 11, 1997 at 19:40:24 (EDT)
___Chris -:- Re: The Cult Leader as Psychopath -:- Wed, Jun 11, 1997 at 21:56:17 (EDT)
___op -:- Re: The Cult Leader as Psychopath -:- Thurs, Jun 12, 1997 at 00:34:21 (EDT)
___IRS AGENT -:- Re: The Cult Leader as Psychopath -:- Thurs, Jun 12, 1997 at 00:46:05 (EDT)
___Chris -:- Re: The Cult Leader as Psychopath -:- Thurs, Jun 12, 1997 at 01:38:53 (EDT)
___op -:- Re: The Cult Leader as Psychopath -:- Thurs, Jun 12, 1997 at 20:12:14 (EDT)
___Anon to OP -:- Re: The Cult Leader as Psychopath -:- Thurs, Jun 12, 1997 at 20:15:42 (EDT)
___Jim -:- Re: The Cult Leader as Psychopath -:- Thurs, Jun 12, 1997 at 21:34:36 (EDT)
___op -:- Re: The Cult Leader as Psychopath -:- Fri, Jun 13, 1997 at 01:11:03 (EDT)
___irene -:- Re: The Cult Leader as Psychopath -:- Sat, Jun 14, 1997 at 07:29:24 (EDT)
___Bill Cooper -:- Re: The Cult Leader as Psychopath -:- Sat, Jun 14, 1997 at 08:21:31 (EDT)
___Brian -:- Re: The Cult Leader as Psychopath -:- Sat, Jun 14, 1997 at 08:48:42 (EDT)
___Deena to irene -:- Re: The Cult Leader as Psychopath -:- Sat, Jun 14, 1997 at 09:23:30 (EDT)
___Jim -:- Re: The Cult Leader as Psychopath -:- Sat, Jun 14, 1997 at 12:54:13 (EDT)
___hornysubmissive -:- Re: The Cult Leader as Psychopath -:- Sat, Jun 14, 1997 at 19:55:04 (EDT)

Jim -:- Funnier than words -:- Wed, Jun 11, 1997 at 13:25:08 (EDT)
___tom -:- Re: Funnier than words -:- Thurs, Jun 12, 1997 at 00:31:03 (EDT)
___Bill Cooper -:- Re: Funnier than words -:- Thurs, Jun 12, 1997 at 03:09:12 (EDT)
___Brian -:- Re: Funnier than words -:- Thurs, Jun 12, 1997 at 05:53:07 (EDT)
___Beavis -:- Re: Funnier than words -:- Thurs, Jun 12, 1997 at 19:47:26 (EDT)

Bill Cooper -:- Just Reward -:- Tues, Jun 10, 1997 at 10:27:48 (EDT)
___Chris -:- Re: Just Reward -:- Tues, Jun 10, 1997 at 17:57:56 (EDT)
___Bill Cooper -:- Re: Just Reward -:- Tues, Jun 10, 1997 at 21:36:02 (EDT)
___Chris -:- Re: Just Reward -:- Tues, Jun 10, 1997 at 23:04:01 (EDT)
___Bill Cooper -:- Re: Just Reward -:- Wed, Jun 11, 1997 at 04:23:22 (EDT)

Paul -:- M the Manipulator -:- Tues, Jun 10, 1997 at 04:42:44 (EDT)
___Brian -:- Re: M the Manipulator -:- Tues, Jun 10, 1997 at 08:34:23 (EDT)
___Paul -:- Re: M the Manipulator -:- Tues, Jun 10, 1997 at 09:27:07 (EDT)
___Paul - PS -:- Re: M the Manipulator -:- Tues, Jun 10, 1997 at 10:22:24 (EDT)
___Jim -:- Re: M the Manipulator -:- Tues, Jun 10, 1997 at 11:33:02 (EDT)
___Jim -:- Re: M the Manipulator -:- Tues, Jun 10, 1997 at 11:35:19 (EDT)
___Paul -:- Re: M the Manipulator -:- Tues, Jun 10, 1997 at 11:57:24 (EDT)
___Paul -:- Re: M the Manipulator -:- Tues, Jun 10, 1997 at 12:02:23 (EDT)
___JW -:- Re: M the Manipulator -:- Tues, Jun 10, 1997 at 13:14:37 (EDT)
___Chris -:- Re: M the Manipulator -:- Tues, Jun 10, 1997 at 18:00:20 (EDT)
___Paul -:- Re: M the Manipulator -:- Wed, Jun 11, 1997 at 05:04:57 (EDT)
___Paul - PS -:- Re: M the Manipulator -:- Wed, Jun 11, 1997 at 07:26:26 (EDT)
___Jim -:- Re: M the Manipulator -:- Wed, Jun 11, 1997 at 13:06:59 (EDT)
___Chris -:- Re: M the Manipulator -:- Wed, Jun 11, 1997 at 18:42:00 (EDT)
___Jim -:- Re: M the Manipulator -:- Wed, Jun 11, 1997 at 19:20:17 (EDT)
___op -:- Re: M the Manipulator -:- Thurs, Jun 12, 1997 at 00:02:04 (EDT)
___Bill Cooper -:- Re: M the Manipulator -:- Thurs, Jun 12, 1997 at 03:00:48 (EDT)
___Brian -:- Re: M the Manipulator -:- Thurs, Jun 12, 1997 at 05:59:55 (EDT)
___Paul -:- Re: M the Manipulator -:- Thurs, Jun 12, 1997 at 07:52:40 (EDT)
___Paul -:- Re: M the Manipulator -:- Thurs, Jun 12, 1997 at 07:59:00 (EDT)
___Jim -:- Re: M the Manipulator -:- Thurs, Jun 12, 1997 at 14:37:17 (EDT)
___op -:- Re: M the Manipulator -:- Thurs, Jun 12, 1997 at 20:02:59 (EDT)
___Anon -:- Re: M the Manipulator -:- Thurs, Jun 12, 1997 at 20:13:24 (EDT)
___Brian -:- Re: M the Manipulator -:- Thurs, Jun 12, 1997 at 21:40:59 (EDT)
___Jim -:- Re: M the Manipulator -:- Thurs, Jun 12, 1997 at 22:30:53 (EDT)
___op -:- Re: M the Manipulator -:- Fri, Jun 13, 1997 at 01:12:49 (EDT)
___op -:- Re: M the Manipulator -:- Fri, Jun 13, 1997 at 01:25:37 (EDT)
___Jim -:- Re: M the Manipulator -:- Fri, Jun 13, 1997 at 12:52:09 (EDT)
___JW -:- Re: M the Manipulator -:- Fri, Jun 13, 1997 at 13:15:26 (EDT)
___Miranda -:- Re: M the Manipulator -:- Sat, Jun 14, 1997 at 07:32:28 (EDT)
___Stan -:- Re: M the Manipulator -:- Mon, Jun 16, 1997 at 08:53:03 (EDT)
___Jim -:- Re: M the Manipulator -:- Mon, Jun 16, 1997 at 11:20:31 (EDT)
___Stan -:- Re: M the Manipulator -:- Mon, Jun 16, 1997 at 11:31:03 (EDT)
___Jim -:- Re: M the Manipulator -:- Mon, Jun 16, 1997 at 15:37:26 (EDT)
___Stan B. -:- Re: M the Manipulator -:- Mon, Jun 16, 1997 at 16:39:47 (EDT)
___Jim -:- Re: M the Manipulator -:- Mon, Jun 16, 1997 at 19:03:21 (EDT)
___Stan -:- Re: M the Manipulator -:- Tues, Jun 17, 1997 at 04:30:35 (EDT)
___Jim -:- Re: M the Manipulator -:- Tues, Jun 17, 1997 at 10:39:33 (EDT)
___Stan -:- Re: M the Manipulator -:- Tues, Jun 17, 1997 at 11:48:00 (EDT)


Date: Thurs, Jun 12, 1997 at 02:11:20 (EDT)
Poster: Chris
Email:
To: Everyone
Subject: Hordes Swarm
Message:
Hellers Hordes are beginning to swarm in cyberspace.
Jim you are truely a master of the game.
You have summoned up great legions of calamity.
DR. LIGHT, IRS AGENT, SWEET COLETA, DEENA QUACK, DANGER, SUSYBI, FORMER FOOL, ADMIRER, CHANCE and more to come speak the glory of your path.
These are truely heroes of your cause.
Gaze into the reflection of their sweet stories for inspiration.
Rejoice in your cyber bliss. A milestone has arrived.

In awe of your leadership and lust for the true blood,
CD
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Date: Thurs, Jun 12, 1997 at 02:58:04 (EDT)
Poster: Bill Cooper
Email:
To: Chris
Subject: Re: Hordes Swarm
Message:
Chris you sound like you need to get outside with your placard and get it out of your system.
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Date: Thurs, Jun 12, 1997 at 05:30:25 (EDT)
Poster: Brian
Email:
To: Chris
Subject: Re: Hordes Swarm
Message:
Gee, Chris - are those REAL wisps of smoke curling from under your hood? I was willing to bet there weren't any moving parts under there, let alone ones that require periodic greasing...
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Date: Thurs, Jun 12, 1997 at 14:30:49 (EDT)
Poster: Jim
Email:
To: Brian
Subject: Re: Hordes Swarm
Message:
Gee, Chris - are those REAL wisps of smoke curling from under your hood? I was willing to bet there weren't any moving parts under there, let alone ones that require periodic greasing...
Ah yes, two points!
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Date: Thurs, Jun 12, 1997 at 15:21:17 (EDT)
Poster: Chris
Email:
To: Brian
Subject: Re: Hordes Swarm
Message:
I like V8s.
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Date: Thurs, Jun 12, 1997 at 15:33:09 (EDT)
Poster: Jim
Email:
To: Chris
Subject: Re: Hordes Swarm
Message:
I like V8s. Really? I like Bloody Mary's made with spicy tomato juice but NOT Caesers because I'm a vegetarian. My guru told me I wouldn't progress spiritually if I sucked clams. But, you know Chris, I'd never really thought about it like that before. Thanks again.
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Date: Thurs, Jun 12, 1997 at 22:19:09 (EDT)
Poster: Chris
Email:
To: Jim
Subject: Re: Hordes Swarm
Message:
I hope you realize that I was referring to small block V8s though the drink is O.K. at times.
Yeah a bit spicy, good Vodka and a bean does a good Bloody Mary. I know a few sources.

Are you really a vegetarian?

Maybe you are a mellow fellow.
You associated vegetable juice rather than hot rods on your psych sample.
But then again, it was spicy and had buzz potential.
Yet you have a lingering desire for Clamato.
You are no bland vegie whimp.
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Date: Thurs, Jun 12, 1997 at 22:32:02 (EDT)
Poster: Jim
Email:
To: Chris
Subject: Re: Hordes Swarm
Message:
The joke was mine but, if you like, you can have it.
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Date: Wed, Jun 11, 1997 at 13:36:11 (EDT)
Poster: The Deena
Email:
To: Everyone
Subject: The Cult Leader as Psychopath
Message:
Here is another quote from Tobias's Captive Hearts Captive Minds...

'Cultic groups and relationships are formed primarily to meet specific emotional needs of the leader, many of whom suffer from one or another emotional or character disorder. Few, if any, cult leaders subject themselves to the psychological tests or prolonged clinical interviews that allow for an accurate diagnosis. However, researchers and clinical interviews who have observed these individuals describe them variously as neurotic, psychotic, on a spectrum exhibiting neurotic, sociopathic, and psychotic characteristics, or suffering from a diagnosed personality disorder.'


'Neuropsychiatrist Richard M. Restak stated, At the heart of the diagnosis of psychopathy was the recognition that a person could appear normal and yet close observation would reveal the personality to be irrational or even violent. Indeed, initially most psychopaths appear quite normal. They present themselves to us as charming, interesting, even humble. The majority don't suffer from delusions, hullucinations, or memory impairment, their contact with reality appears solid.'

'Another researcher described psychopaths as people who are impulsive, unable to tolerate frustration and delay, and have problems with trusting. They take a paranoid position or externalize their emotional experience. They have little ability to form a working alliance and a poor capacity for self-observation. Their anger is frightening. When close to another person they fear engulfment or fusion or loss of self. At the same time, paradoxically, they disire closeness; frustration of their entitled wishes to be nourished, cared for. and assisted often leads to rage. They are capable of child's primitive fury enacted with an adult's physical capabilities, and action is always in the offing.'

'Ultimately, the psychopath must have what he wants, no matter what the cost to those in his way'

'Let us look for a moment at how some of this manifest in the cult leader. Cult leaders have an outstanding ability to charm and win over followers. They beguile and seduce. They enter a room and garner all the attention. They command the utmost respect and obedience. These are individuals whose narcissism is so extreme and grandiose that they exist in a kind of spendid isolation in which the creation of the grandiose self takes precedence over legal, moral or interpersonal commitments.

What do you think?
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Date: Wed, Jun 11, 1997 at 13:58:40 (EDT)
Poster: The Continued Deena
Email:
To: Everyone
Subject: Re: The Cult Leader as Psychopath
Message:
I have to add this to the above quotes from the same book...

'Glibness is a hallmark of psychopaths. They are able to use language effortlessly to beguile, confuse, and convince. They are captivating storytellers. They exude self-confidence and are able to spin a web that intrigues others and pulls them into the psychopath's life. Most of all they are persuasive. Frequently they have the capacity to destroy their critics verbally or disarm them emotionally.'

How about that?
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Date: Wed, Jun 11, 1997 at 18:51:08 (EDT)
Poster: Chris
Email:
To: The Deena
Subject: Re: The Cult Leader as Psychopath
Message:
You should concentrate on reading 'Think and Grow Rich' instead so that you can make some money to fix your car and enjoy yourself and quit being a reformer blamer complainer.
'Success is a Choice' might also be helpful to you.

Good luck on your journey,
CD
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Date: Wed, Jun 11, 1997 at 19:08:37 (EDT)
Poster: Jim
Email:
To: Chris
Subject: Re: The Cult Leader as Psychopath
Message:
You should concentrate on reading 'Think and Grow Rich' instead so that you can make some money to fix your car and enjoy yourself and quit being a reformer blamer complainer.
'Success is a Choice' might also be helpful to you.

Good luck on your journey,
CD

Chris, believe it or not, you raise an interesting question. (I guess you ARE interesting after all). The question is -- is this worth it? Why carp and carp as a gadfly against some rich motherfucking asshole who locked us up in ashrams and made us work for the right to kiss his Wholly Bogus feet and have no sex or lives other than to sing his phony glory?
Why not just give our money to other assholes like Napoleon Solo or whoever wrote that book -- are you rich, by the way?

Interesting question.
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Date: Wed, Jun 11, 1997 at 19:40:24 (EDT)
Poster: a former fool
Email: whollymolly
To: The Continued Deena
Subject: Re: The Cult Leader as Psychopath
Message:
I have to add this to the above quotes from the same book...

'Glibness is a hallmark of psychopaths. They are able to use language effortlessly to beguile, confuse, and convince. They are captivating storytellers. They exude self-confidence and are able to spin a web that intrigues others and pulls them into the psychopath's life. Most of all they are persuasive. Frequently they have the capacity to destroy their critics verbally or disarm them emotionally.'

How about that?


yo, sounds like someone we have known,or seen and heard from afar.THE little,fat, spoiled,. brat,psycho himself,lord of the flies....MAY I RAPE YA, RUGU
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Date: Wed, Jun 11, 1997 at 21:56:17 (EDT)
Poster: Chris
Email:
To: Jim
Subject: Re: The Cult Leader as Psychopath
Message:
Yeah Jim, in your book of life everybody gets to have their day at being Heller's Asshole Designate (HAD).

Who will be the next to be HAD?
Can you ever have HAD enough?

Today Napoleon Hill is proclaimed to be HAD.
May he rest in peace.
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Date: Thurs, Jun 12, 1997 at 00:34:21 (EDT)
Poster: op
Email:
To: The Continued Deena
Subject: Re: The Cult Leader as Psychopath
Message:
'Glibness is a hallmark of psychopaths. They are able to use language
effortlessly to beguile, confuse, and convince. They are captivating
storytellers. They exude self-confidence and are able to spin a web that
intrigues others and pulls them into the psychopath's life. Most of all they are persuasive. Frequently they have the capacity to destroy their critics verbally or disarm them emotionally.'

Is this referring to Jim?
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Date: Thurs, Jun 12, 1997 at 00:46:05 (EDT)
Poster: IRS AGENT
Email: IRS/INVESTIGATIONS@SPRINTMAIL
To: Chris
Subject: Re: The Cult Leader as Psychopath
Message:
Yeah Jim, in your book of life everybody gets to have their day at being Heller's Asshole Designate (HAD).

Who will be the next to be HAD?
Can you ever have HAD enough?

Today Napoleon Hill is proclaimed to be HAD.
May he rest in peace.

MAYBE THE IRS SHOULD TAKE A LOOK AT ALL THESE HIGH FINANCE DEELS OF THE GREAT MASTER OF TRICKERY!
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Date: Thurs, Jun 12, 1997 at 01:38:53 (EDT)
Poster: Chris
Email:
To: IRS AGENT
Subject: Re: The Cult Leader as Psychopath
Message:
Yes, you can pray to the IRS for revenge.
Get to work on it right away. Great pleasure awaits.

Have you HAD your IRS today?
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Date: Thurs, Jun 12, 1997 at 20:12:14 (EDT)
Poster: op
Email:
To: IRS AGENT
Subject: Re: The Cult Leader as Psychopath
Message:
MAYBE THE IRS SHOULD TAKE A LOOK AT ALL THESE HIGH
FINANCE DEELS OF THE GREAT MASTER OF TRICKERY!
Maybe the IRS agent should learn how to spell.
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Date: Thurs, Jun 12, 1997 at 20:15:42 (EDT)
Poster: Anon to OP
Email:
To: op
Subject: Re: The Cult Leader as Psychopath
Message:
Come into the chat room OP!
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Date: Thurs, Jun 12, 1997 at 21:34:36 (EDT)
Poster: Jim
Email:
To: op
Subject: Re: The Cult Leader as Psychopath
Message:
MAYBE THE IRS SHOULD TAKE A LOOK AT ALL THESE HIGH
FINANCE DEELS OF THE GREAT MASTER OF TRICKERY!

Maybe the IRS agent should learn how to spell.

Good one, OP. Was this your own observation or did Chris point it out to you? Like Chris says, 'you're good, you're real good'.
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Date: Fri, Jun 13, 1997 at 01:11:03 (EDT)
Poster: op
Email:
To: Anon to OP
Subject: Re: The Cult Leader as Psychopath
Message:
Come into the chat room OP!

Sorry I missed ya! Maybe next time.
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Date: Sat, Jun 14, 1997 at 07:29:24 (EDT)
Poster: irene
Email:
To: The Deena
Subject: Re: The Cult Leader as Psychopath
Message:
Again The Deena you are wallowing please get help.
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Date: Sat, Jun 14, 1997 at 08:21:31 (EDT)
Poster: Bill Cooper
Email:
To: irene
Subject: Re: The Cult Leader as Psychopath
Message:
Let me guess Irene, you must be a premie ?
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Date: Sat, Jun 14, 1997 at 08:48:42 (EDT)
Poster: Brian
Email:
To: Bill Cooper
Subject: Re: The Cult Leader as Psychopath
Message:
Let me guess Irene, you must be a premie ?
Naw... Irene is a person FAR to intelligent to have ever fallen into the transparent trap that we did. She's obviously got too much insight into people (e.g. her diagnosis of Deena) to have ever believed a fat little fraud like MJ could be anything more than what he appears to be. She's able to see the dangers of that sort of non-thinking.
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Date: Sat, Jun 14, 1997 at 09:23:30 (EDT)
Poster: Deena to irene
Email:
To: irene
Subject: Re: The Cult Leader as Psychopath
Message:
Again The Deena you are wallowing please get help.
Again. Thank you so much. I am speechless. Your compassion knows no bounds. You obviously have embraced Maharaji's teachings and it shows in every aspect of your existence. There is no real way to show my appreciation. I very much look forward to your future posts.
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Date: Sat, Jun 14, 1997 at 12:54:13 (EDT)
Poster: Jim
Email:
To: irene
Subject: Re: The Cult Leader as Psychopath
Message:
Again The Deena you are wallowing please get help.
What kind of help does poor Deena need, irene?
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Date: Sat, Jun 14, 1997 at 19:55:04 (EDT)
Poster: hornysubmissive
Email: cumhome@netgirl
To: Jim
Subject: Re: The Cult Leader as Psychopath
Message:
You should concentrate on reading 'Think and Grow Rich' instead so that you can make some money to fix your car and enjoy yourself and quit being a reformer blamer complainer.
'Success is a Choice' might also be helpful to you.

Good luck on your journey,
CD

Chris, believe it or not, you raise an interesting question. (I guess you ARE interesting after all). The question is -- is this worth it? Why carp and carp as a gadfly against some rich motherfucking asshole who locked us up in ashrams and made us work for the right to kiss his Wholly Bogus feet and have no sex or lives other than to sing his phony glory?
Why not just give our money to other assholes like Napoleon Solo or whoever wrote that book -- are you rich, by the way?

Interesting question.
oooh ahaaooo,Jimbo i love it so when you talk like that!!!!
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Date: Wed, Jun 11, 1997 at 13:25:08 (EDT)
Poster: Jim
Email:
To: Everyone
Subject: Funnier than words
Message:
If you ever thought Christians were funny with their mix of banal, white-bread activities and cosmic kitsch, if you ever thought that we premies were so much more meaningful and profound, check out the latest from Harlan's:

'E-mail: ntb@foothill.net

Location: auburn ca. usa

Comments: If there are any premies in England who are familiar with antiques
and where and how to buy them and would be interested in a possible
export/import business please contact me at the e-mail address
provided. Myself and my wife have many years of of experience
dealing in antiques in the U.S. and have identified several
potential markets for English imports. The imfamous Dennis
(grandpa) Christie of Ashram fame is also involved. And now
for a brief quote; "These tears are not because I am remembering
my father, but because I am feeling so much power in me. They
are tears of strength. I have come so powerful. Whenever the great
come, the wordly oppose them. Again I have come and you are not
listening.Every ear should hear that the saviour of humanity
has come...Give me your love, I will give you peace. Come to me,
I will relieve you of your suffering. I am the source of peace
in this world..." GMJ, Peace Bomb, Nov. 8th, 1970.'
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Date: Thurs, Jun 12, 1997 at 00:31:03 (EDT)
Poster: tom
Email:
To: Jim
Subject: Re: Funnier than words
Message:
well the savior of humanity neglected to have a
real contact with himself and thereby courted the disaster
that befell his followers and his family.
He broke up his and many other families, his indulgence
and inslavement by greed,anger,lust,envy,violence,
pride,and all, caused him endless troubles.
Being completely lost to the one thing that could save
him, he spent decades putting many people way,way out on a limb.
While suffering from his plagues, and driven by his
messiah momentum, he has at least realised that
the way out is to live feeling the everpresent life.
But as of december,he was unable to control his
rage even in the midst of a three day event.
At the may DC event, he was greeted with a 5 min
ovation at the start. I was told he was upbeat and said this life is for feeling that (that?) contentment inside.
It is not to likely that all the areas that need fixin have gotten fixed yet. His own programming is well rooted.
The newspapers are full of bad unfolding stories,
the long running political global stories, ect. I think
I might soon tune out all these stories and just read the decade in review, once ever ten years. And I'll tell
the premies that if m ever becomes truly consistantly
happy, then only do I want them to talk about this subject.
Since the life expectency for guys is actually 84,(if you take out all the young people who die young) Then just to be average I have 40 more years. I think that I can safely
ignore a few billion people for 40 years, and basically just stick with the life that I actually see and hear with my
senses. I did something like this before but this time
m wont be there to dominate.

Today I was at a first grade baseball game and it was perfect weather, rare and amazing location, other folks,
and I saw how feeling my life gave my a sense of clarity
and freedom that made my time complete. And that the
other people were subject to all kinds of feelings and
discomforts and I felt that heaven on earth was there
for all to feel, but it was being missed. If the savior of humanity was a real human being, this could have been
a better story.
its gods fault, it likes things screwed up.
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Date: Thurs, Jun 12, 1997 at 03:09:12 (EDT)
Poster: Bill Cooper
Email:
To: tom
Subject: Re: Funnier than words
Message:
WoW Tom I think I understood that one. I've thought you were just pissing about here but I really felt your last message.
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Date: Thurs, Jun 12, 1997 at 05:53:07 (EDT)
Poster: Brian
Email:
To: Jim
Subject: Re: Funnier than words
Message:
Looks like a valuable quote to me too, Jim. You can see the tearstains show very clearly over on the right side. Contains the required 'fulfilling prophesy' gibberish, with a strong implication of 'Lordness'. I do believe it is an authenic 70's GMJ! Definitely constructed during the adolescent period of the Millenium!
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Date: Thurs, Jun 12, 1997 at 19:47:26 (EDT)
Poster: Beavis
Email:
To: Butthead
Subject: Re: Funnier than words
Message:
Tom is cool
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Date: Tues, Jun 10, 1997 at 10:27:48 (EDT)
Poster: Bill Cooper
Email:
To: Heller
Subject: Just Reward
Message:
HELLER YOU'D BETTER WATCH OUT !!! MAHARAJI WILL CRUSH YOU LIKE AN INSECT FOR YOUR ARROGANCE AND STUPIDITY. THE FACT THAT YOU IGNORE TO RECOGNISE HIM WILL MEAN THAT YOU AND YOUR LIKE WILL BE PUNISHED IN ETERNAL TORMENT ON THE DAY THAT MAHARAJI DECIDES TO REVEAL HIMSELF !!!

Hey pretty good eh ? I think I'm getting the hang of this premie humility stuff. One, come on all cute and sympathetic. Two, never resort to logic . Three if all else fails go for the jugular in capital letters .
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Date: Tues, Jun 10, 1997 at 17:57:56 (EDT)
Poster: Chris
Email:
To: Bill Cooper
Subject: Re: Just Reward
Message:
Why don't you make a sign and go walk around outside for a while with it.
Then you will have the living experience.
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Date: Tues, Jun 10, 1997 at 21:36:02 (EDT)
Poster: Bill Cooper
Email:
To: Chris
Subject: Re: Just Reward
Message:
And what do you suggest I put on that sign?
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Date: Tues, Jun 10, 1997 at 23:04:01 (EDT)
Poster: Chris
Email:
To: Bill Cooper
Subject: Re: Just Reward
Message:
The same stuff you posted in CAPS of course.
Your true convictions.
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Date: Wed, Jun 11, 1997 at 04:23:22 (EDT)
Poster: Bill Cooper
Email:
To: Chris
Subject: Re: Just Reward
Message:
Might need a big placard, but it would go like this.
Maharaji you promised us the experience beyond time and space.We were told you were the Lord of the universe. Where are the premies who have realised knowledge ? Why are you no longer being promoted as Lord of the Universe ? Why have you gone from Sat Guru to a master ( perhaps not even perfect ). So many people have said that you had a drink problem. Is it true ? Your voracious appetite for material objects when premies live in relative poverty, do you think that is right.. Do you take any responsibility for the craziness that went on in your name ? Why do you never reply to any letters ?
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Date: Tues, Jun 10, 1997 at 04:42:44 (EDT)
Poster: Paul
Email:
To: Everyone
Subject: M the Manipulator
Message:
M the Manipulator

I believe that one of the most powerful forces in our lives is the power of the manipulator - M being a very powerful manipulator indeed.

Many of us are set up for it from early life - from the very beginning an adult with power over us will use manipulation to make us behave in a certain way - the manipulator sees the power that they have, and succumbs to the power - sinking deeper into becoming the manipulator.

Those of us who are manipulated come to expect this as a way of life - yet within us is a conflict - the need to be free and make our own decisions in life.

Breaking free is a painful process - false guilt is often laid at our door by the manipulator - and it s hard not to return.

But so often we soon find ourselves in the hands of another manipulator (enter M) and the prison is entered again - often more powerful and constraining than ever before.

Eventually we may be able to break free - but we need to watch our for our response - a common reaction is to throw out all values and beliefs that the manipulator held to - so when another manipulator takes us we will accept a different set of beliefs and values.

The manipulator gives us little respect, and does not value us as an individual - as we live without the manipulator we must be careful not to let another have the same power over our lives - always being ready to challenge the manipulator with the issues that take away our freedom.

Since I left DLM I have been subject to a number of manipulators - and it s so subtle sometimes that you don t realize it s happening for a long time. Linda and I try not to manipulate each other, and we try to give each other the respect we truly need (and I believe we all need a very high degree of respect). It s respect that releases us into dignity and freedom.

I d like to know your thoughts on this issue


Paul
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Date: Tues, Jun 10, 1997 at 08:34:23 (EDT)
Poster: Brian
Email:
To: Paul
Subject: Re: M the Manipulator
Message:
Manipulation, huh? Yeah, I can see that. Been on both sides of it, and will probably be again. It's part of how we interact. I want something you have, you want something I have. Basic negotiation between consenting parties involves manipulation, coersion, carrot/stick incentives.

MJ is not The Great Manipulator, though. Small potatoes, actually. His claims of what the consequences or rewards are, require those allowing themselves to be manipulated to first suspend all rational thought and embrace a world of Never Never Land. You can lead a devotee to a video screen, but you can't make him/her hang on every word. But after 5 months of accompanying gibberish, there is a certain 'consistancy' that's bound to be evident. Still, the part that amazes me is that things are now made so hard to accept in the first place that devotees are pre-screened in the process to weed out those not completely stupid. There was at least an excitement in the 70's that we were on the verge of World Peace being established. You would never have joined the COG if you had been required to watch so much TV first. I wouldn't have been in DLM. Yet the idiots continue to be found by this process. Ones far less likely to ever question their 'gift' afterwards.
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Date: Tues, Jun 10, 1997 at 09:27:07 (EDT)
Poster: Paul
Email: oily2000@aol.com
To: Brian
Subject: Re: M the Manipulator
Message:
Yes - I see negotiation between consenting parties.

It's the issue of the powerless being manipulated by the powerful that I'm getting at here - like you said it's giving away the rational thought and letting the leaders take me where they want.

For me it gets more complicated - the traps that you felt before - i.e. from childhood come again in the cult situation - they come stronger - saying 'naughty boy if you don't do as you're told' - this reaction in me in the past has let them do what they wanted - and the fear of rejection hangs over the head on the slender chord.

At the same time I was angry with myself for letting others do this to me - yet I felt this had to be right - wasn't I being told this was the only path to take.

Video - Oh No - we would never have thought that would bring world peace, or the end of this era - and the dawn of the new.
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Date: Tues, Jun 10, 1997 at 10:22:24 (EDT)
Poster: Paul - PS
Email: oily2000@aol.com
To: Brian
Subject: Re: M the Manipulator
Message:
Come to think of it

I don't think negotiation has to involve manipultion - being a Yorkshireman I prefer to be up front - so that both parties know the score - and come to a compromise.

I find that all parties are happier with the result - if it is done in mutual respect.

Paul
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Date: Tues, Jun 10, 1997 at 11:33:02 (EDT)
Poster: Jim
Email:
To: Paul
Subject: Re: M the Manipulator
Message:
As an aside, my mom's first husband was whacko and self-published this book called the Manipulators. Paranoid ramblings that never explain who the manipulators actually are until you get to the middle of the book and he describes the aliens on the ocean floor controlling our minds. How can we know they're aliens? Who else would have the technology to do all this and not be detected?
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Date: Tues, Jun 10, 1997 at 11:35:19 (EDT)
Poster: Jim
Email:
To: Paul - PS
Subject: Re: M the Manipulator
Message:
Paul, I think you'd enjoy the Guru Papers.
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Date: Tues, Jun 10, 1997 at 11:57:24 (EDT)
Poster: Paul
Email: oily2000@aol.com
To: Jim
Subject: Re: M the Manipulator
Message:
Paul, I think you'd enjoy the Guru Papers.
Thanks Jim

Do you know the ISDN number - so that I can order it from a bookshop.

Failing that the publisher, author ect.


Paul
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Date: Tues, Jun 10, 1997 at 12:02:23 (EDT)
Poster: Paul
Email:
To: Jim
Subject: Re: M the Manipulator
Message:
As an aside, my mom's first husband was whacko and self-published this book called the Manipulators. Paranoid ramblings that never explain who the manipulators actually are until you get to the middle of the book and he describes the aliens on the ocean floor controlling our minds. How can we know they're aliens? Who else would have the technology to do all this and not be detected?
I worked as a pschiatric nurse and looked after many people with similar ideas.
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Date: Tues, Jun 10, 1997 at 13:14:37 (EDT)
Poster: JW
Email:
To: Brian
Subject: Re: M the Manipulator
Message:
Yes, but there is a continuum in "manipulation," from negotiation and mutual compromise on the one end, and abuse on the other.


If someone finds vulnerability in another person and exploits it for his or her own selfish benefit, and there is truly no mutual compromise, that is abuse, and that is what Guru Maharaj Ji engaged in. He set up a power relationship that is patently unfair and unbalanced, he created the aura of "all-powerfulness" such that compromise was out of the question, and he demanded, far from a negotiated, mutual result, total surrender -- the ultimate in abusive manipulation. I also believe, like Paul said, that people who were vulnerable to being manipulated in this way, tended to be the ones who got involved with the guru, and almost certainly the ones who stayed involved, like me.


And GMJ did it for selfish reasons -- to aggrandize himself as a glorified god-like being, and to enrich himself materially with all the world has to offer. And when people got hurt, abused really, in this unhealthy "relationship," he didn't show even the slightest interest or concern for them. In fact, he never showed the slightest concern about how ANY of his "premies" were doing, except maybe some in the inner circle. This is the ultimate in selfish, uncaring manipulation. That total lack of a conscience is what makes Guru Maharaj Ji so dangerous.


The only positive thing you can say, is that I doubt there are many "new recruits" nowadays, especially given the selective aspirant process you mentioned. I also think the younger generation today is less idealistic and more skeptical than mine was. This must cause GMJ some pain, in that he has likely had to lower his inflated opinion of himself from god/perfect master, to "meditation instructor." That change could not have been easy on his humongous ego. But the alternative was to jeopardize his meal ticket entirely, so I guess he had to compromise after all. I think he spent much of the 80s dealing with that.


But, I doubt you will ever hear him admit any mistake or damage to anyone, and I doubt he will ever take responsibility for anything negative whatsoever. That he will probably blame on others. I doubt his ego will ever allow anything more than that.
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Date: Tues, Jun 10, 1997 at 18:00:20 (EDT)
Poster: Chris
Email:
To: Paul
Subject: Re: M the Manipulator
Message:
Facts:
You left DLM in 1972
You joined the Children of God
You are now a born-again Christian

Now your message can be taken in context.
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Date: Wed, Jun 11, 1997 at 05:04:57 (EDT)
Poster: Paul
Email: oily2000@aol.com
To: Chris
Subject: Re: M the Manipulator
Message:
Hello Chris

I wondered how long it would be before you turned to me.

I know the things I said have upset you Chris - but truth does have to be told.

First let me deal with the issues you raised :-
In 1972 I became a born again Christian - leaving DLM in the process - as a very young believer I joined the COG thinking like many others that this was a bony fidy Christian group - it took me a few months to see that this was not the case - and Jesus very clearly led me out of that group.

I have walked with Jesus since that time, and found that he has always been ready to guide and help me.

I have no doubt that M is a manipulator; to - and beyond - the point of abuse; as J.W. said. It is not just my observation.

M is the abuser of your soul Chris - but there is a way out.

Let s look at some other facts Chris - Jesus healed many - and raided people from the dead - when did M last do that.

The Old Testament has many prophesies about the coming of the Messiah - that Jesus fulfilled. Here are a few:-

A descendant of David, his place of birth, time of birth, born of a virgin, the massacre of the infants, his ministry in Galilee, his resurrection, some of his characteristics, betrayed by a friend, sold for 30 pieces of silver, false witnesses accuse him, silent when accused, smitten and spat upon, suffered for others, hands and feet pierced, mocked and insulted, prays for his enemies, his side pierced, not a bone of his body broken, to be buried with the rich, his resurrection, his ascension. Chris These are just some of the things I can show you - M just is not in the same league.

If you want to discuss these issues Chris - you can do that privately with me - e-mail me at oily2000@aol.com - there is lots I can show you about Jesus - and he is alive today - one day M will be dead.
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Date: Wed, Jun 11, 1997 at 07:26:26 (EDT)
Poster: Paul - PS
Email:
To: Chris
Subject: Re: M the Manipulator
Message:
Sorry Chris - typing so fast - I hit the wrong key.

Let s look at some other facts Chris - Jesus healed many - and raised people from the dead - when did M last do that.

Hope that makes it clearer

Paul
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Date: Wed, Jun 11, 1997 at 13:06:59 (EDT)
Poster: Jim
Email:
To: Paul
Subject: Re: M the Manipulator
Message:
Paul,

You seem like a nice guy but this Christian shit is bullshit. Absolute garbage. If you want to debate this here fine.
Every last 'miracle' you want to attribute to your guy comes with a big fat question mark you Christians conveniently ignore. Like, why the hell should anyone believe this? Then, when you consider all that we really know about the world and the human mind, it becomes conclusively apparent that the answer is we shouldn't .

For example, have you followed any of the recent research on the bible, in particular the work of the academic symposium that has allocated one of four different colours to all Jesus' 'quotes'? Turns out he never said half of your favorite punch lines. You disagree? Why? Becuase you want to? Because your mind tells you it's Jesus telling you to disagree? Give me a fucking break.
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Date: Wed, Jun 11, 1997 at 18:42:00 (EDT)
Poster: Chris
Email:
To: Jim
Subject: Re: M the Manipulator
Message:
Am I a nice guy?
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Date: Wed, Jun 11, 1997 at 19:20:17 (EDT)
Poster: Jim
Email:
To: Chris
Subject: Re: M the Manipulator
Message:
Am I a nice guy?

I dunno, are you? You have a pleasant enough demeanour but, really, Chris, you've wasted a lot of peoples' time and effort here. You know what I'm talking about. To that end you've been at least reckless as to whether or not you were frustrating the hell out of people trying to talk with you. Is that nice? You tell me.

(Shit, I feel like Miss Manners)
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Date: Thurs, Jun 12, 1997 at 00:02:04 (EDT)
Poster: op
Email:
To: Paul
Subject: Re: M the Manipulator
Message:
Jesus raided people from the dead?

Good show!

But seriously, did you ever hear the one about 20/20 vision and hindsight? Most of Jesus' historiographers wrote about him at least 500 years after his 'death'.

And don't be so sure some of the stuff you're talking about can't be attributed to a few others besides Jesus, including M.
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Date: Thurs, Jun 12, 1997 at 03:00:48 (EDT)
Poster: Bill Cooper
Email:
To: op
Subject: Re: M the Manipulator
Message:
Hey op nice to hear from you. Where have you been ? With all the premies not contributing cept Chris I thought M must have said something.
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Date: Thurs, Jun 12, 1997 at 05:59:55 (EDT)
Poster: Brian
Email:
To: op
Subject: Re: M the Manipulator
Message:
Opie! What a surprise! Posting, even. Where DO you find the time???

Look, Jim! Our little Pranam Gopi has run in a circle and returned to us! And she brought a plate of cookies!
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Date: Thurs, Jun 12, 1997 at 07:52:40 (EDT)
Poster: Paul
Email: oily2000@aol.com
To: Jim
Subject: Re: M the Manipulator
Message:
Jim

I'm sorry that I've been getting under your skin.

I would like to here from you about this recent research

Over the next few days I'll be away from the computer - but I'll pick it up when I get back.

Paul
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Date: Thurs, Jun 12, 1997 at 07:59:00 (EDT)
Poster: Paul
Email:
To: op
Subject: Re: M the Manipulator
Message:
Hi Op

Thakns for the note

We have manuscripts of the New Testament from 130AD.

With the earliest full copy 350AD.

That is a gap much less than the writtings of Herodtos, Thucydides, Tacitus, Ceasar's Gallic War, & Livy Roman History.

But no one questions them.

Paul
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Date: Thurs, Jun 12, 1997 at 14:37:17 (EDT)
Poster: Jim
Email:
To: op
Subject: Re: M the Manipulator
Message:
Jesus raided people from the dead?

Good show!

But seriously, did you ever hear the one about 20/20 vision and hindsight? Most of Jesus' historiographers wrote about him at least 500 years after his 'death'.

And don't be so sure some of the stuff you're talking about can't be attributed to a few others besides Jesus, including M.
Which way you riding, OP? Deconstructing Jesus or Reconstructing Maharaji? Or do you need to strategize a bit before answering?
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Date: Thurs, Jun 12, 1997 at 20:02:59 (EDT)
Poster: op
Email:
To: Jim
Subject: Re: M the Manipulator
Message:
Always the critic, huh Jim? I'm a great believer in giving the benefit of the doubt. Maybe that's my downfall, but I still believe in the humanity and honesty of most. So I can't judge until I see all sides completely. Remember the blind men and the elephant?
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Date: Thurs, Jun 12, 1997 at 20:13:24 (EDT)
Poster: Anon
Email:
To: op
Subject: Re: M the Manipulator
Message:
OP, don't you think that there's some truth and good to be gained in talking about all this? Can you come into Scotts chat room for a chat now?
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Date: Thurs, Jun 12, 1997 at 21:40:59 (EDT)
Poster: Brian
Email:
To: op
Subject: Re: M the Manipulator
Message:
Eventually, even blind men can recognize an elephant's stink. What's wrong with your nose?
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Date: Thurs, Jun 12, 1997 at 22:30:53 (EDT)
Poster: Jim
Email:
To: op
Subject: Re: M the Manipulator
Message:
Always the critic, huh Jim? I'm a great believer in giving the benefit of the doubt. Maybe that's my downfall, but I still believe in the humanity and honesty of most. So I can't judge until I see all sides completely. Remember the blind men and the elephant?
Excuse me, I'm confused. When last you dropped by you begged off all judgement. 'He is whoever you want him to be' is, I think, how you put it. Remember?

Now, you're waiting for further evidence so you can judge the man properly. Can you possibly reconcile these two stances? I think not. One defies judgement, one prepares for it.

As for 'the humanity and honesty of most', you've got to be nuts. 'Humanity'? Of course. Only unicorns, elves, dwarves, and Perfect Masters don't fit but, as we know, they don't exist. No one but you, dear friend, is disputing Maharaji's 'humanity.'

But 'honest of most'? Is that including all fakirs, gurus, channelers, 'workshop' leaders, salesmen, politicians, and what have you? Better yet, let's narrow it down a bit. Is it really your opinion that 'most' of the people who have at one time or antoehr claimed to be 'saviours of mankind' have been straight shooters? Where are all the frauds and self-deluded slicksters, OP? Where'd they go?

Oh, I know, 'always the critic'.
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Date: Fri, Jun 13, 1997 at 01:12:49 (EDT)
Poster: op
Email:
To: Anon
Subject: Re: M the Manipulator
Message:
OP, don't you think that there's some truth and good to be gained in talking about all this? Can you come into Scotts chat room for a chat now?

I told you before - I'm not here! I mean, I wasn't here. I signed off right after I wrote that and didn't come back till now.

Rain check?
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Date: Fri, Jun 13, 1997 at 01:25:37 (EDT)
Poster: op
Email:
To: Jim
Subject: Re: M the Manipulator
Message:
Sometimes I really wish I had the glibness and mental agility to play with words that well. I guess old age is creeping along very decidedly on me.

I didn't say who I'm judging, nor did I define most. I meant that I refuse to judge ANYBODY - and that includes Jesus and Maharaji, unless I can see the whole picture. And seeing the whole picture takes a lot more consciousness than what a momentary glimpse can give.

And most - means most. Not even just those 'endowed' with human bodies. New age twitter though it may seem, I would rather see god looking out through the eyes of my earthly companions. Rather than what? And why? Rather than void, rather than negativity. Because I still believe that inside every sentient being there is a connection to the divine, and if I want to live with divinity, that's what I have to seek out in each one.

That doesn't make me a saint, by the way. No holier than thou stuff. I just want to experience the part of you that is close to perfection, the part of my bird that is close to perfection, the part of my children that is close to perfection, the part of my idiot job that is close to perfection (guess which is hardest to do).

And 'most', obviously, doesn't include the exceptions. If most sheep on a field have four legs, that means that there are at least a couple with three, or two, or maybe five. I didn't say 'the humanity and honesty of ALL.'

take care
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Date: Fri, Jun 13, 1997 at 12:52:09 (EDT)
Poster: Jim
Email:
To: op
Subject: Re: M the Manipulator
Message:
Sometimes I really wish I had the glibness and mental agility to play with words that well. I guess old age is creeping along very decidedly on me.

I didn't say who I'm judging, nor did I define most. I meant that I refuse to judge ANYBODY - and that includes Jesus and Maharaji, unless I can see the whole picture. And seeing the whole picture takes a lot more consciousness than what a momentary glimpse can give.

And most - means most. Not even just those 'endowed' with human bodies. New age twitter though it may seem, I would rather see god looking out through the eyes of my earthly companions. Rather than what? And why? Rather than void, rather than negativity. Because I still believe that inside every sentient being there is a connection to the divine, and if I want to live with divinity, that's what I have to seek out in each one.

That doesn't make me a saint, by the way. No holier than thou stuff. I just want to experience the part of you that is close to perfection, the part of my bird that is close to perfection, the part of my children that is close to perfection, the part of my idiot job that is close to perfection (guess which is hardest to do).

And 'most', obviously, doesn't include the exceptions. If most sheep on a field have four legs, that means that there are at least a couple with three, or two, or maybe five. I didn't say 'the humanity and honesty of ALL.'

take care
May I suggest something? Time after time you find yourself cornered by your own words. That's only because you're dishonest with yourself. Sorry, OP, not trying to be rude but, from my vantage point, it's so damned obvious. The 'cornered' feeling comes just with your own obstinancy in denying, when push comes to shove, your own thought process.

For example, you comfortably talked about 'judging' people. That was no mistake. You're not new to the language, the concept or this confrontational, nit-picking forum, if you like. You said what you said becuase it was true. BUT, you squirm like crazy to evade the natural consequences of your own words. OP, THAT's the reason why we could do this 'til the cows come home. THAT's the reason why you 'know' we'll 'never resolve anything.' You've got a bug.

See, I don't share your pessimism. Everytime I hit yout with some apparent point I have every hope that you'll honestly admit it. Look, I'm only talking the obvious ones. Like the judging thing. You said it, this post above, I'm sorry to say, is the kind of bullshit that drains all the respect you'd otherwsie enjoy here.

But, like I was saying, I really, honestly, hope and sometimes even expect that you'll finally concede the undeniable. You, on the other hand, know that you'll do no such thing. Hence, your view that 'welll never agree.' We'll never agree because you're committed to not.

Now you talk about seeing such beauty in people. Get real, OP. Nothing's more human than the mind. Good or bad that's what truly defines us. Not just some amorphous light and certainly not some bogus set of ideas about some amorphous light. That ain't it. It's our mind.

Your blatant disrespect for the little bit of true understanding we can have in our minds leaves you just 'worshipping' this leftover sameness in everyone. That's not perfection you're looking at, that's just life.

I'm not being glib and I'm not 'playing with words.' I'm just trying to have an honest discussion with you. YOU'RE the one who has to dodge your own words at every turn. Give it up. You're better than that.
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Date: Fri, Jun 13, 1997 at 13:15:26 (EDT)
Poster: JW
Email:
To: Jim
Subject: Re: M the Manipulator
Message:
Jim, I don't think OP is able to "give it up." She has been doing it for more than half her life. But I would suggest that OP not subject herself to these discussions. It must be painful, or at least extemely confusing, for her.
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Date: Sat, Jun 14, 1997 at 07:32:28 (EDT)
Poster: Miranda
Email:
To: Paul
Subject: Re: M the Manipulator
Message:
You are obviously very vulnerabe and disturbed. Please don't think that because someone offers you something they are manipulating you. You choose to accept what Maharaji had to offer you. No one pointed a gun at your head.
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Date: Mon, Jun 16, 1997 at 08:53:03 (EDT)
Poster: Stan
Email:
To: Miranda
Subject: Re: M the Manipulator
Message:
Hey

Let the perfect cast the 1st stone

Be honest yourself for a change
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Date: Mon, Jun 16, 1997 at 11:20:31 (EDT)
Poster: Jim
Email:
To: Stan
Subject: Re: M the Manipulator
Message:
Hey

Let the perfect cast the 1st stone

Be honest yourself for a change
Oh you idiot (it's an expression). No one ever claimed to be perfect but your little fat fraud artist. You don't have to be the Lord to criticize a pretender to you? You premies often talk as if you haven't had a real thought for years. Too bad for you, bud.
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Date: Mon, Jun 16, 1997 at 11:31:03 (EDT)
Poster: Stan
Email:
To: Jim
Subject: Re: M the Manipulator
Message:
Not a premie - not any more

I just thought too much shit was being thrown at Paul
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Date: Mon, Jun 16, 1997 at 15:37:26 (EDT)
Poster: Jim
Email:
To: Stan
Subject: Re: M the Manipulator
Message:
Not a premie - not any more

I just thought too much shit was being thrown at Paul
Personally, I LIKE Paul. He's been nothing but a gentleman here (unlike myself I'm sure). But he's also peddled Jesus shit here and deserves the questions. One might as well be a Christian as a premie as far as I'm concerned. They're all mental sandtraps and should be laughed out of town.

Sorry, maybe I should have asked first -- do YOU believe in the immacualte conception, the ressurrection, the this or the that, the meat or the fat?
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Date: Mon, Jun 16, 1997 at 16:39:47 (EDT)
Poster: Stan B.
Email:
To: Jim
Subject: Re: M the Manipulator
Message:
I just think that we shouldn't throw out the baby with the bath water.

Just 'cos M laid the shit on us - it don't mean all religion is crap.

So I was getting a bit tired of the blast the Christian stuff.
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Date: Mon, Jun 16, 1997 at 19:03:21 (EDT)
Poster: Jim
Email:
To: Stan B.
Subject: Re: M the Manipulator
Message:
I just think that we shouldn't throw out the baby with the bath water.

Just 'cos M laid the shit on us - it don't mean all religion is crap.

So I was getting a bit tired of the blast the Christian stuff.
Stan,

I used to think that way too and can't believe I've become such a rabid atheist. But I have. In any event, I'm certainly not a Christian. Frankly, I think being one requires a fully compromised intellect. In any event, Paul, like all good born-agains, preaches where he can. He opens the topic, others join in. What else can be said? I know I seem like such a jerk, in a way, but humour me for a moment.

Assume, just for argument's sake, that there is no God. Okay? Or, loosen it up a bit. Assume there might be a God but there is no disembodied Jesus of Nazareth out there. NONE. If that's true (and I can't think of ONE bit of evidnec to the contrary) isn't all this 'I walk with Jesus' shit just an incredible farce? Life's short. Why waste it on antique superstition? Know what I mean? Why protect darkness?

Anyway, if you think some religion's NOT crap, fine. But if you start telling me that you know Maharaji's not the Lord because your imaginary friend, Harvey the Rabbit, says so, you're asking for a little constructive feedback, wouldn't you say?
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Date: Tues, Jun 17, 1997 at 04:30:35 (EDT)
Poster: Stan
Email:
To: Jim
Subject: Re: M the Manipulator
Message:
Jim

You push this atheist thing more than any born-again or the like.

You'r the one who shouts out at every chance that God is not real.

Now think, if God is real you'r in for one big shock.

Your the bully here.
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Date: Tues, Jun 17, 1997 at 10:39:33 (EDT)
Poster: Jim
Email:
To: Stan
Subject: Re: M the Manipulator
Message:
Jim

You push this atheist thing more than any born-again or the like.

You'r the one who shouts out at every chance that God is not real.

Now think, if God is real you'r in for one big shock.

Your the bully here.
No, stan, it doesn't work that way. I'm just insisting on arguing from evidence, either about Maharaji, God, Jesus or Tiger Woods. Paul compared Maharaji to Jesus by arguing that Maharaji never raised the dead, etc. etc. As if to say we ALL know that Jesus did. I find that absurd both in fact and as an argument ploy. Don't you?
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Date: Tues, Jun 17, 1997 at 11:48:00 (EDT)
Poster: Stan
Email:
To: Jim
Subject: Re: M the Manipulator
Message:
Send him an e-mail

I will. Bye
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