Ex-Premie.Org

Forum I Archive # 7

From: Jun 4, 1997

To: Jun 17, 1997

Page: 5 Of: 5


Brian -:- Mili Knuckles Under -:- Sun, Jun 8, 1997 at 07:11:15 (EDT)
___Jim -:- Re: Mili Knuckles Under -:- Sun, Jun 8, 1997 at 14:32:36 (EDT)

Scott -:- New Former Premie Live Chat Link -:- Sat, Jun 7, 1997 at 03:55:55 (EDT)
___Scott -:- Re: New Former Premie Live Chat Link -:- Sat, Jun 7, 1997 at 13:46:55 (EDT)
___hungry fools -:- Re: New Former Premie Live Chat Link -:- Sat, Jun 14, 1997 at 18:30:55 (EDT)
___Brian -:- Re: New Former Premie Live Chat Link -:- Sat, Jun 14, 1997 at 20:39:33 (EDT)
___Jim TO SCOTT & DAVID -:- Re: New Former Premie Live Chat Link -:- Sun, Jun 15, 1997 at 17:32:35 (EDT)

JW -:- Satsang, Service and Meditation -:- Fri, Jun 6, 1997 at 19:49:50 (EDT)
___Jim -:- Re: Satsang, Service and Meditation -:- Fri, Jun 6, 1997 at 20:53:22 (EDT)
___tom -:- Re: Satsang, Service and Meditation -:- Sat, Jun 7, 1997 at 03:41:00 (EDT)
___Deena -:- Re: Satsang, Service and Meditation -:- Sat, Jun 7, 1997 at 23:28:46 (EDT)
___Brian -:- Re: Satsang, Service and Meditation -:- Sun, Jun 8, 1997 at 06:45:43 (EDT)
___JW -:- Re: Satsang, Service and Meditation -:- Mon, Jun 9, 1997 at 00:32:52 (EDT)
___DR.LIGHT -:- Re: Satsang, Service and Meditation -:- Wed, Jun 11, 1997 at 20:54:34 (EDT)

Douche -:- Chatting in Paradise -:- Fri, Jun 6, 1997 at 17:53:43 (EDT)
___Douche -:- Re: Chatting in Paradise -:- Fri, Jun 6, 1997 at 18:02:12 (EDT)
___Douche -:- Re: Chatting in Paradise -:- Fri, Jun 6, 1997 at 18:05:06 (EDT)
___Douche -:- Re: Chatting in Paradise -:- Fri, Jun 6, 1997 at 18:07:21 (EDT)
___Scott -:- Re: Chatting in Paradise -:- Fri, Jun 6, 1997 at 19:05:38 (EDT)
___Douche -:- Re: Chatting in Paradise -:- Fri, Jun 6, 1997 at 20:17:27 (EDT)
___bass -:- Re: Chatting in Paradise -:- Tues, Jun 10, 1997 at 18:11:13 (EDT)
___Douche -:- Re: Chatting in Paradise -:- Thurs, Jun 12, 1997 at 17:15:18 (EDT)

Scott -:- My call -:- Fri, Jun 6, 1997 at 07:47:25 (EDT)
___Scott: PS -:- Re: My call -:- Fri, Jun 6, 1997 at 10:25:56 (EDT)
___the tom -:- Re: My call -:- Sat, Jun 7, 1997 at 02:25:53 (EDT)

PS -:- Toms Buddha Bashing -:- Fri, Jun 6, 1997 at 07:09:42 (EDT)
___Scott -:- Re: Toms Buddha Bashing -:- Fri, Jun 6, 1997 at 10:32:01 (EDT)
___PS -:- Re: Toms Buddha Bashing -:- Fri, Jun 6, 1997 at 16:57:44 (EDT)
___the tom -:- Re: Toms Buddha Bashing -:- Fri, Jun 6, 1997 at 22:03:32 (EDT)
___Deena -:- Re: Toms Buddha Bashing -:- Sun, Jun 8, 1997 at 14:52:20 (EDT)

Douche -:- New web site? -:- Thurs, Jun 5, 1997 at 04:51:34 (EDT)
___Scott -:- Re: New web site? -:- Thurs, Jun 5, 1997 at 11:32:26 (EDT)
___Jim -:- Re: New web site? -:- Thurs, Jun 5, 1997 at 11:36:06 (EDT)
___Jim -:- Re: New web site? -:- Thurs, Jun 5, 1997 at 11:36:52 (EDT)
___Douche -:- Re: New web site? -:- Thurs, Jun 5, 1997 at 15:39:45 (EDT)
___Brian -:- Re: New web site? -:- Thurs, Jun 5, 1997 at 19:50:39 (EDT)
___Douche -:- Re: New web site? -:- Fri, Jun 6, 1997 at 04:05:39 (EDT)
___Brian -:- Re: New web site? -:- Fri, Jun 6, 1997 at 08:01:43 (EDT)
___Douche -:- Re: New web site? -:- Fri, Jun 6, 1997 at 14:47:46 (EDT)
___bass -:- Re: New web site? -:- Mon, Jun 9, 1997 at 22:59:49 (EDT)
___tom -:- Re: New web site? -:- Wed, Jun 11, 1997 at 23:22:43 (EDT)

Bill Cooper -:- Lucid Dreaming -:- Thurs, Jun 5, 1997 at 03:46:39 (EDT)
___Brian -:- Re: Lucid Dreaming -:- Thurs, Jun 5, 1997 at 05:25:51 (EDT)
___Bill Cooper -:- Re: Lucid Dreaming -:- Thurs, Jun 5, 1997 at 08:57:14 (EDT)
___Jim -:- Re: Lucid Dreaming -:- Fri, Jun 6, 1997 at 23:15:56 (EDT)
___Bill Cooper -:- Re: Lucid Dreaming -:- Sat, Jun 7, 1997 at 00:00:18 (EDT)
___the tom -:- Re: Lucid Dreaming -:- Sat, Jun 7, 1997 at 09:30:43 (EDT)
___Jim -:- Re: Lucid Dreaming -:- Sat, Jun 7, 1997 at 12:18:53 (EDT)
___tom -:- Re: Lucid Dreaming -:- Sat, Jun 7, 1997 at 14:36:15 (EDT)
___Bill Cooper -:- Re: Lucid Dreaming -:- Sat, Jun 7, 1997 at 22:54:35 (EDT)
___Deena -:- Re: Lucid Dreaming -:- Sat, Jun 7, 1997 at 23:04:48 (EDT)
___Bill Cooper -:- Re: Lucid Dreaming -:- Sun, Jun 8, 1997 at 00:45:29 (EDT)
___Bill Cooper -:- Re: Lucid Dreaming -:- Mon, Jun 9, 1997 at 23:07:17 (EDT)
___Jim -:- Re: Lucid Dreaming -:- Mon, Jun 9, 1997 at 23:12:33 (EDT)
___Bill Cooper -:- Re: Lucid Dreaming -:- Tues, Jun 10, 1997 at 05:47:57 (EDT)
___tom -:- Re: Lucid Dreaming -:- Tues, Jun 10, 1997 at 08:50:10 (EDT)

B.J. -:- The Parable of the Horse Dung -:- Thurs, Jun 5, 1997 at 00:02:39 (EDT)
___Bill Cooper -:- Re: The Parable of the Horse Dung -:- Thurs, Jun 5, 1997 at 01:10:04 (EDT)
___Anon -:- Re: The Parable of the Horse Dung -:- Thurs, Jun 5, 1997 at 05:26:34 (EDT)
___Brian -:- Re: The Parable of the Horse Dung -:- Thurs, Jun 5, 1997 at 05:39:58 (EDT)
___Paul -:- Re: The Parable of the Horse Dung -:- Thurs, Jun 5, 1997 at 07:31:29 (EDT)
___B.J. -:- Re: The Parable of the Horse Dung -:- Thurs, Jun 5, 1997 at 09:39:11 (EDT)
___Paul -:- Re: The Parable of the Horse Dung -:- Thurs, Jun 5, 1997 at 11:16:21 (EDT)
___JW -:- Re: The Parable of the Horse Dung -:- Thurs, Jun 5, 1997 at 11:53:20 (EDT)
___B.J. -:- Re: The Parable of the Horse Dung -:- Thurs, Jun 5, 1997 at 12:34:52 (EDT)
___JW -:- Re: The Parable of the Horse Dung -:- Thurs, Jun 5, 1997 at 17:42:26 (EDT)
___Jim -:- Re: The Parable of the Horse Dung -:- Thurs, Jun 5, 1997 at 20:26:39 (EDT)
___the tom -:- Re: The Parable of the Horse Dung -:- Thurs, Jun 5, 1997 at 22:31:41 (EDT)

Scott -:- New archive #11 -:- Wed, Jun 4, 1997 at 23:30:25 (EDT)
___Scott -:- Re: New archive #11 -:- Thurs, Jun 5, 1997 at 00:27:14 (EDT)


Date: Sun, Jun 8, 1997 at 07:11:15 (EDT)
Poster: Brian
Email:
To: Everyone
Subject: Mili Knuckles Under
Message:
Evidently Mili has purged MJ from his Sad Song Page. What a shame. Surrender is all. Self-direction is confusion.

Get with the program, Harlan.
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Date: Sun, Jun 8, 1997 at 14:32:36 (EDT)
Poster: Jim
Email:
To: Brian
Subject: Re: Mili Knuckles Under
Message:
Evidently Mili has purged MJ from his Sad Song Page. What a shame. Surrender is all. Self-direction is confusion.

Get with the program, Harlan.
Yeah but he kept up Shri Hans (Hans Yog Prakash) wherein the master explains that one only sees divine light when the third eye is opened by the grace of the guru. He does NOT explicitly state what part of the video this happens in. I guess that's why all the religions talk about he need for a Perfect TV Guide.
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Date: Sat, Jun 7, 1997 at 03:55:55 (EDT)
Poster: Scott
Email:
To: Everyone
Subject: New Former Premie Live Chat Link
Message:
Dear Forum Participants,
- Will wonders never cease? The wonders of cyberspace that is. If you might happen to want to connect live with another forum participant with no phone bill, now you can do it. Check out the new link I just set up by clicking on: http://www.miraclevision.com/maharaji/readwrit.htm#chat. The new link at the bottom of the 'Input Page'

- Scott
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Date: Sat, Jun 7, 1997 at 13:46:55 (EDT)
Poster: Scott
Email:
To: All
Subject: Re: New Former Premie Live Chat Link
Message:
Just in case anyone might have tried this link earlier today, you may not have found it functional, due to some reformating I was doing. It is now once again fully functional.
- Scott
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Date: Sat, Jun 14, 1997 at 18:30:55 (EDT)
Poster: hungry fools
Email: hungryfools.com
To: Scott
Subject: Re: New Former Premie Live Chat Link
Message:
Dear Forum Participants,
- Will wonders never cease? The wonders of cyberspace that is. If you might happen to want to connect live with another forum participant with no phone bill, now you can do it. Check out the new link I just set up by clicking on:
http://www.miraclevision.com/maharaji/readwrit.htm#chat. The new link at the bottom of the 'Input Page'

- Scott

scott,it seems a bit complicated, how about a big button that says CHAT ,and wala you enter the room and start talking....whaya think?
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Date: Sat, Jun 14, 1997 at 20:39:33 (EDT)
Poster: Brian
Email:
To: hungry fools
Subject: Re: New Former Premie Live Chat Link
Message:
scott,it seems a bit complicated, how about a big button that says CHAT ,and wala you enter the room and start talking....whaya think?

Chatting via a Web browser actually IS complicated. The problem is that browsers don't establish actual links to a chat server that can be tested from that site to determine when any particular user is no longer linked.

The web browser software running on your computer sends requests over a phone connection to your ISP, to be passed on over the Internet to a web 'server' site (pergatory, for example). The server processes the request, sending the information back over the Internet to the requesting site (your ISP). Under the WWW information exchange protocol, it then forgets about your ISP entirely. Your ISP sends the information over the phone connection to your browser to handle. Web browsing per se is not meant to be interactive, the way your connection to your ISP is. Using the web for interactive communication is only permitted because browsers (Netscape, Explorer, etc) have been expanded to allow small applications ('applets') to be downloaded from the server site. Your browser then loads this applet into memory and tells the operating system on your computer (Windows95 for example) to run this applet until the browser tells it to stop.

The only way for the chat software on the web server to determine whether you are still 'in' chat is for your computer to periodically send requests to the chat server for any new input from other users. That's what the applet does when it's not sending your input to the server or updating your screen with the received input from others. When you close the page that the applet is running on, your browser tells your operating system to stop running the applet. Requests are no longer sent for any new input from the other users 'in' chat. The chat server takes that silence to mean you 'left', and notifies any other chatters.

You're still going to have to go through the step where you pick a name to be known by during that chat session. This name is passed along with your input to the applets running on other chatters' machines.

So I guess the short answer to your big button question is 'no'. I coulda just said that I suppose... [grin]
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Date: Sun, Jun 15, 1997 at 17:32:35 (EDT)
Poster: Jim TO SCOTT & DAVID
Email:
To: Brian
Subject: Re: New Former Premie Live Chat Link
Message:
Scott,

Have you guys noticed Brian's apparent ability to talk net? Maybe you shoudl draft him in service to Satan.
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Date: Fri, Jun 6, 1997 at 19:49:50 (EDT)
Poster: JW
Email:
To: Everyone
Subject: Satsang, Service and Meditation
Message:
During part of my ashram career, I was living in San Antonio, Texas in an ashram modestly referred to as "The City Of Love and Light." I was there for a little over 1.5 years and during that time I think there were about 150 residents, including a "novitiate" program that Bill Patterson ran for people who were "applying" to live in the ashram.


Anyway, I was just recalling that "satsang, service and meditation" was always the answer to absolutely everything in the GMJ cult, no matter how big or small the problem, because GMJ said that is all you had to do and the rest was his problem, if you surrendered, of course. This recipe for salvation, along with GMJ's failure to ever even suggest that a premie had any obligation whatsoever to any other human being, except the guru, had the effect of absolving premies of any responsibility, even for their own actions.


This really hit home to me by an event in San Antonio in 1975-1976. In what appeared to be an uncharacteristic show of altruism, a few brothers in the ashram started getting involved in a "big brothers" program in San Antonio, which I think mostly involved poorer, mostly hispanic, kids who didn't have fathers. I can remember these "brothers" bringing around some of the kids to events in the ashram.


Anyway, it was eventually discovered that a couple of these brothers were pederasts and were sexually molesting these kids. They were actually doing it in the ashram, bringing the kids in for weekends, etc. What really astounded me, aside from the fact that this stuff was going on in the first place, and by supposedly enlightened premies I knew, was that the perpetrators never had to take responsibility for what they did, never got any counseling, and I don't think anything was done to counsel the kids either. They premie pederasts were just told to do satsang, service and meditation. That was really it, in addition to trying to keep the whole event quiet. Even the initiators/mahatmas and the ashram leaders said that.


Indeed, one of the things that was particularly sick about the Maharaj Ji cult was the way "satsang, service and meditation" and surrender to Guru Maharaj Ji was seen as the only responsibility a premie had, and that other than to GMJ, there was absolutely no responsibility owed to anyone else, even for the destructive results of one's own actions.


So much responsibility was avoided. Who knows, maybe those guys are still molesting little kids to this day.
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Date: Fri, Jun 6, 1997 at 20:53:22 (EDT)
Poster: Jim
Email:
To: JW
Subject: Re: Satsang, Service and Meditation
Message:
What a story JW. We were so much tamer in Canada. Ever meet Michael Dettmers? Stuart MacDougall? Gary Ockenden? Hey, we were just a bunch of nice guys.

But you're absolutely right about S, S & M. It seemed like second nature to summarize all REAL human activities under those headings. That was life. S,S & M. I wonder when he last pushed that particular float?
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Date: Sat, Jun 7, 1997 at 03:41:00 (EDT)
Poster: tom
Email:
To: Jim
Subject: Re: Satsang, Service and Meditation
Message:
There were a lot of really great and hopeful people.
The real undermining came from showing someone
the knowledge then telling them that the experience
is something that maharaji will give you later, IF
you do this this and this and then surrender and then
the ashram so that you belong to gmj and then become
an instructor and then in instructor meetings he would say
---there is a 900 ft. thick steel wall between you and the experience and you havent even scratched the surface.---
So you end up completely discounting the experience of life that you are haveing, waiting for the true ultimate to
kick in.
I locked into the life force for a good chunk of time in 79
to 82 and although it was really an incredible era for me
there was always in the background the undermining
influence of the dogma that I didnt stand a chance in hell
of getting the most out of life by myself and I had to wait till
someone else was in the mood to give me that gift.

Thats my gripe with the god in general, any so called path to god is riddled with time consuming actions and
an unattainable goal. Until after you die. Then you can have it.
To feel myself and know thats enough.
To not be beholden to anybody.
To love being here.
To have the yuck one step away.
To stay with the comfort.
To have the ultimate power show me things out of love.
To have the wishes that spring from my heart.
To leave in a dream.
To post this and go to bed.
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Date: Sat, Jun 7, 1997 at 23:28:46 (EDT)
Poster: Deena
Email:
To: Everyone
Subject: Re: Satsang, Service and Meditation
Message:
Man, the stuff about sexual abuse mixed up with some sort of spiritual mask literally makes me ill. Especially when it involves kids. Thanks for sharing that JW. I need to read that stuff as painful as it is.

Tom...I could really relate to 'So you end up completely discounting the experience of life that you are having, waiting for the true ultimate to kick in.'....that was me alright and now I enjoy so much that I'm not missing what is happening waiting for, what Frank Zappa called 'Cosmik Debris' I love the line 'Don't waste your time on me' and 'Who are you jiving with that cosmik debris?' or 'What kind of Gu ru are you anyway' The song reminded me of a few years back when word went out to active premies to approach those premies in the woodwork to come out to video events and to have a knowledge review. I sure hope no premies get a bee in their bonnet to 'help' me. So far the ones I've briefly talked to on the phone sound relieved to hear that I am feeling good....I mean, for goodness sake I must be suffering, no? Poor little me...no longer a perfect slave to a perfect master. Don't you feel sorry for me?

I came so close to going into debt to drive a 97 Subaru Outback Limited Edition...just so I could sit in the luxury heated leather seats in the dead of winter and enjoy the comfort of AWD and think to myself that M wasn't the only one riding in style. Damn, I was so close...someday M, someday...
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Date: Sun, Jun 8, 1997 at 06:45:43 (EDT)
Poster: Brian
Email:
To: tom
Subject: Re: Satsang, Service and Meditation
Message:
The real undermining came from showing someone the knowledge then telling them that the experience is something that maharaji will give you later, IF[...]

This is what ultimately drove me away from DLM. He was constantly moving the goal posts. I had to go along, or go off alone. And I wanted to go along at the time, but it was too hard to stay 'on the path' when he kept saying 'you're not even ON it yet' or 'it's over here now'. Even after I left, it hadn't left me. I kept that sort of 'my efforts are futile' thinking as one of my life's precepts. What a waste. Good riddance.
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Date: Mon, Jun 9, 1997 at 00:32:52 (EDT)
Poster: JW
Email:
To: tom
Subject: Re: Satsang, Service and Meditation
Message:
Very true. The thing that made Guru Maharaj Ji such an egregious con-man was that you were told that the ultimate "experience" was constantly available and so, so easy to have. But, then, once you were "hooked" by that line, he unveiled a little bit of what was really going on. That you had to surrender first, that you had to get rid of your confusion first, that you had to give up your "concepts" first, that you had to not be "of" the world firts, and on and on and on before the "ultimate truth" was available to you, or unless you begged the perfect master for it long enough and he was moved by your sincerity of his whim, and gave it to you. You ended up, like you said, living your life "waiting" for the "true ultimate to kick in." Excellent line.


But it is hard at first, when I found out it was a big lie.
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Date: Wed, Jun 11, 1997 at 20:54:34 (EDT)
Poster: DR.LIGHT
Email:
To: Deena
Subject: Re: Satsang, Service and Meditation
Message:
Man, the stuff about sexual abuse mixed up with some sort of spiritual mask literally makes me ill. Especially when it involves kids. Thanks for sharing that JW. I need to read that stuff as painful as it is.

Tom...I could really relate to 'So you end up completely discounting the experience of life that you are having, waiting for the true ultimate to kick in.'....that was me alright and now I enjoy so much that I'm not missing what is happening waiting for, what Frank Zappa called 'Cosmik Debris' I love the line 'Don't waste your time on me' and 'Who are you jiving with that cosmik debris?' or 'What kind of Gu ru are you anyway' The song reminded me of a few years back when word went out to active premies to approach those premies in the woodwork to come out to video events and to have a knowledge review. I sure hope no premies get a bee in their bonnet to 'help' me. So far the ones I've briefly talked to on the phone sound relieved to hear that I am feeling good....I mean, for goodness sake I must be suffering, no? Poor little me...no longer a perfect slave to a perfect master. Don't you feel sorry for me?

I came so close to going into debt to drive a 97 Subaru Outback Limited Edition...just so I could sit in the luxury heated leather seats in the dead of winter and enjoy the comfort of AWD and think to myself that M wasn't the only one riding in style. Damn, I was so close...someday M, someday...
What's going on Deena?I can remember the premies of yesterday were loving and kind and full of bliss,fools, but good people.but now they are paranoid,hating,foul mouthed,visiousfools,what happened?I thing they know that it's all a sham,the snake eats itself. take an asprin and call me in the morning!
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Date: Fri, Jun 6, 1997 at 17:53:43 (EDT)
Poster: Douche
Email:
To: Everyone
Subject: Chatting in Paradise
Message:
Has anyone else tried clicking on the small 'Message Info' icon at the bottom left hand corner of all posts? It will take you to Paradise (systems that is). They're offering a new html chat service which I'd quite like to try out. (Click on HTML Chat Server). If anyone is around at the moment, I'll be there at 11.00pm GMT. I'm not sure what ETD time that is but it's within a few minutes of this post. I'll be the one with the red rose holding a copy of Divine Times under my arm.

Douche
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Date: Fri, Jun 6, 1997 at 18:02:12 (EDT)
Poster: Douche
Email:
To: Anyone
Subject: Re: Chatting in Paradise
Message:
I'm not promising anything, but this just might take you there... click here
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Date: Fri, Jun 6, 1997 at 18:05:06 (EDT)
Poster: Douche
Email:
To: Douche
Subject: Re: Chatting in Paradise
Message:
No it won't! I'll try that again... click here
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Date: Fri, Jun 6, 1997 at 18:07:21 (EDT)
Poster: Douche
Email:
To: Anyone
Subject: Re: Chatting in Paradise
Message:
So close, but not quite there. I'm probably completely wasting my time because everyone else is either at work or in bed!
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Date: Fri, Jun 6, 1997 at 19:05:38 (EDT)
Poster: Scott
Email:
To: Douche
Subject: Re: Chatting in Paradise
Message:
Hey Douche!
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Date: Fri, Jun 6, 1997 at 20:17:27 (EDT)
Poster: Douche
Email:
To: Anyone
Subject: Re: Chatting in Paradise
Message:
Well, we managed a three way conversation with Scott and Brian, so it wasn't a completely wasted effort. One last go at this click here for anyone who may be remotely interested. You have to put in a nickname at this point and then the magic door opens.

click here
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Date: Tues, Jun 10, 1997 at 18:11:13 (EDT)
Poster: bass
Email: bassfox@aol.com
To: Douche
Subject: Re: Chatting in Paradise
Message:
i love to find this site ,let me now how to get there
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Date: Thurs, Jun 12, 1997 at 17:15:18 (EDT)
Poster: Douche
Email:
To: bass
Subject: Re: Chatting in Paradise
Message:
Sorry to take so long to respond but Paradise is no more! The new place to be seen is at the Conference Room.

Go to the Links page and it's about two thirds the way down. Best to make a date though, otherwise you'll be talking to the wall.
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Date: Fri, Jun 6, 1997 at 07:47:25 (EDT)
Poster: Scott
Email:
To: Everyone
Subject: My call
Message:
Dear forum participants,
- In this forum honest facts, honest discussion are OK. (A little occasional flame throwing, just for the fun of it is OK too I guess.)
- Any wild and irresponsible speculations that have no clear factual basis or any totally indiscriminate and senseless flame throwing with no clear purpose other than malice, is unnecessary and unwelcome here.
- Clearly some former premies have good reason to feel anger or rage. Still, I must ask that anyone wishing to post to this forum pay the rest of the forum participants a certain minimal level of respect before posting here.
- By 'minimal level of respect', I mean:
Please don't go randomly throwing horse shit all over everyone and everything in here, you're not going to be making anything any better by doing this. Relax, chill out, find out exactly where this desire to sling shit is coming from, then you can sling your 'stink bombs' a bit more accurately. (Who knows, you might even score one or two bullseyes in the process.)

- Scott
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Date: Fri, Jun 6, 1997 at 10:25:56 (EDT)
Poster: Scott: PS
Email:
To: All
Subject: Re: My call
Message:
Dear Forum Participants,
- In case you might be wondering what the above was all about, I just yanked a certain posting by a certain person that I felt the above negative descriptions would apply to. - I saved the post, sent it back to the person who posted it, and asked that person to reconsider how that person was coming across. I told the person that if he wanted to repost the same thing a second time, I wouldn't yank the posting a second time, but I only asked him to reconsider more carefully how he was coming across.
- This is only the second time I have yanked anything. The first time was when someone posted something that was totally untrue and spiteful about another forum participant about 3 months ago, which I yanked.

- Sincerely,

- Scott
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Date: Sat, Jun 7, 1997 at 02:25:53 (EDT)
Poster: the tom
Email:
To: Scott: PS
Subject: Re: My call
Message:
Hi Scotty!
How was your trip?
Where DID you go after all?
I think op would have loved it but i'll go with your opinion.
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Date: Fri, Jun 6, 1997 at 07:09:42 (EDT)
Poster: PS
Email: Psok52@aol.com
To: Everyone
Subject: Toms Buddha Bashing
Message:
Didn't know you were so sensitive. did you get molested by a coven of Buddhist monks when you were a kid? And no, I'm not a Buddhist. I was simply mentioning that ex-premies might find the article in CyberSangha to be of interest( for those interested it is 'Purity and Loathing in Dharmaland.' Hard to believe you can't fing ONE thing about Budddhism that isn't 'complete bullshit.' I'm sure I coulod find one thing about you that's not complete bullshit (though not an easy task given your postings).
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Date: Fri, Jun 6, 1997 at 10:32:01 (EDT)
Poster: Scott
Email:
To: PS
Subject: Re: Toms Buddha Bashing
Message:
Dear PS,
I'm sorry, I think I missed the article about Cyber Sangha. Could that have happened over the weekend when I was out?

- Scott
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Date: Fri, Jun 6, 1997 at 16:57:44 (EDT)
Poster: PS
Email:
To: Scott
Subject: Re: Toms Buddha Bashing
Message:
Scott, I think it was monday, and is now in the archives.
CyberSangha is the name of the 'alternative Buddhist Journal'. The article I referrred to is in the current issue.
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Date: Fri, Jun 6, 1997 at 22:03:32 (EDT)
Poster: the tom
Email:
To: PS
Subject: Re: Toms Buddha Bashing
Message:
howdy PS

coincidentally, I spent the last two days rescueing my friend
Kim (not an asian), from his overloaded contract schedule.

I have known him for a long time and he has been a tibetian buddist for the last 9 years. All yesterday and today we talked about buddism. He has been to nepal to a temple grand opening and met the top rinpoche of that group. As always, I just let him speak and I let him evolve
his own way because he is so involved he has that tunnel vision that a fixated person has.
I was a fixated person certainly and a trapped person has thier own timetable to unfold.
That doesnt mean that the trap has merit.
And after two days,and today before I saw him I read your post. So I am digging all day long in a smart guys head
and Im sorry but the same conclusion has to be drawn.
If budda had something to say of value he was a philosopher.
If budda had something to show, it has been long ago lost.
There is a long track record of after a person comes to show the life, and the direct connection to god inside,
It does not suvive long after the guy revealing it dies.

Look at the unfortunate sikhs, nanak wrote some things that were right on the money and obviously knew the importance of the life and maintaining your connection to it.
But if you approach the sikhs now,all they have is a mantra instead of reality, and a whole lot of time consuming actions that are pure illusion(in my fresh mouthed terminology, bullshit.)
It wouldnt be so bad if we lived to be 800 years old.
Then we would have the time to spare to be lost.
But to have the knowing, and trade it for drifting in buddist writings, well you are not going to congradulate yourself
and this web site is for illusion removal. And so the budda fog becomes fair game. Scott can grope for a comrade like --its ok , and i will read it to be in solidarity with your dismay over not having the fog respected---But I say it looks like two guys who are ignoring thier life and are distracted in the endless stuff. Why let go of yourself?
It feels good and it is the reality.

We dont think its worth anything!
And buddaism will never lead us to that simple thing.
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Date: Sun, Jun 8, 1997 at 14:52:20 (EDT)
Poster: Deena
Email:
To: the tom
Subject: Re: Toms Buddha Bashing
Message:
...'distracted in the endless stuff'....after 30 years of doing that, I agree that it does feel great to be free of it and just live life. I'm really enjoying being rid of the endless stuff. Actually, it is even more incredable not having any kind of philosophy or way of looking at things at all. I mean, what difference does it mean if you know or don't know. Living life....that's enough for me, more than enough.
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Date: Thurs, Jun 5, 1997 at 04:51:34 (EDT)
Poster: Douche
Email: david@cpsds.demon.co.uk
To: Everyone
Subject: New web site?
Message:
I produce newsletters and brochures for a living and I need to get some experience at creating web sites. I've offered to redesign the Maharaji site for Scott as a project that could help us both, but he doesn't want to include the techniques, and I do. So he's suggested that I create a separate site linked to his.

I've mapped out some ideas and I'm looking for suggestions and contributions which would help make it a truly collaborative venture. Anyone interested? (Everyone would get a credit.)

The master-plan for the home page contains the following links...

FAQ; Frequently Asked Questions
Background; Past, present & future
Knowledge; Maharaji's secret initiation
The Forum; Have your say
Reports; News, scandal & rumours
Close up; The man behind the mask
Viewpoint; Personal perspectives
Links; Everything & anything
What's new; Recent footage & reports
Feedback; Give us your views & news

At first glance, it probably looks like a tarted-up version of Scott's site, but it's inevitable we will cover much of the same ground. I'm sure that two linked sites are better than one and that it could offer an alternative slant on our shared experiences following BigM.

To get the ball rolling, can anyone come up with a decent FAQ covering topics that would be of interest to both ex-premies and never-been premies? I'd also be interested if anyone could produce a potted history of DLM from before M's father up to the present day.

If you'd prefer, please email me at the above address. All contributions gratefully received.

Douche
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Date: Thurs, Jun 5, 1997 at 11:32:26 (EDT)
Poster: Scott
Email:
To: Douche
Subject: Re: New web site?
Message:
Dear Dave,
- I didn't realize how much you wanted to do this. I think that between us, we may be able to yet combine forces to come up with a satisfactory, more unified approach, with which I think you might be pleased. I hope to email you about this.

- Scott
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Date: Thurs, Jun 5, 1997 at 11:36:06 (EDT)
Poster: Jim
Email:
To: Douche
Subject: Re: New web site?
Message:
Good Douche. I agree (i.e. hope you're right) that two sites will be better than one. I'm happy to help contribute to a faq. First question: what's a question?
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Date: Thurs, Jun 5, 1997 at 11:36:52 (EDT)
Poster: Jim
Email:
To: Scott
Subject: Re: New web site?
Message:
Dear Dave,
- I didn't realize how much you wanted to do this. I think that between us, we may be able to yet combine forces to come up with a satisfactory, more unified approach, with which I think you might be pleased. I hope to email you about this.

- Scott
This sounds good too.
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Date: Thurs, Jun 5, 1997 at 15:39:45 (EDT)
Poster: Douche
Email:
To: Jim
Subject: Re: New web site?
Message:
First question: what's a question?

How about this list for starters?

Who is Maharaji?
How many followers does he have?
What's the attraction?
Does he charge money?
Has he harmed anyone?
What's happened to the rest of his family?
Where does he live?
What's he worth?
How did he become a guru?
etc., etc.

I'd like to keep the answers as short and direct as possible with no obvious bias (we can provide links to jucier stuff like the US Mahatma's attack under the 'scandals & rumours' page). Can anyone else add a few obvious questions to the list that might be posed by ex- and never-have-been premies? All contributions gratefully received.

Douche
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Date: Thurs, Jun 5, 1997 at 19:50:39 (EDT)
Poster: Brian
Email:
To: Douche
Subject: Re: New web site?
Message:
FAQ; Frequently Asked Questions

I suggest that FAQ on your site stand for Frequently Avoided Questions.
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Date: Fri, Jun 6, 1997 at 04:05:39 (EDT)
Poster: Douche
Email:
To: Brian
Subject: Re: New web site?
Message:
I suggest that FAQ on your site stand for Frequently Avoided Questions.

Why?
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Date: Fri, Jun 6, 1997 at 08:01:43 (EDT)
Poster: Brian
Email:
To: Douche
Subject: Re: New web site?
Message:
I suggest that FAQ on your site stand for Frequently Avoided Questions.

Why?
Because so many premies are into question avoidance. As is MJ, the Living Perfect Chameleon.
Just thought it fitting is all. [shrug]
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Date: Fri, Jun 6, 1997 at 14:47:46 (EDT)
Poster: Douche
Email:
To: Brian
Subject: Re: New web site?
Message:
Because so many premies are into question avoidance. As is MJ, the Living Perfect Chameleon.
Just thought it fitting is all. [shrug)

My apologies Brian, I thought you were a premie with attitude! Paranoia is seeping into the ol' brain cells.

Isn't life quiet without Mili, CD and anonamouse? I picture them under a shared blanket, sitting like the three wise monkeys; Mili with his fingers in his eyes, CD grooving to the music of the spheres and anonamouse with his hands over his mouth, trying not to retch as he attempts to find a little nectar!

BTW, many thanks to everyone who offered assistance with my little web project. It's going to take some time, but it's coming together okay. Whether it will ever see the light of day is another matter. (We're expecting a baby in the next few weeks and I've never been very good at sleepless nights!)

Douche

P.S. Scott, did you know that if you forget to put the sender's name in the little box when posting here, it wipes the entire message? I could have spent hours lovingly putting together this little message, and it would have been lost to posterity!
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Date: Mon, Jun 9, 1997 at 22:59:49 (EDT)
Poster: bass
Email:
To: Douche
Subject: Re: New web site?
Message:
i got it......LIGHT READING.........YES REBORN!IT ALREADY RELATES TO THE PREMIES AS A RADICLE LOVING NOTION,A PART OF THEM.....
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Date: Wed, Jun 11, 1997 at 23:22:43 (EDT)
Poster: tom
Email:
To: Douche
Subject: Re: New web site?
Message:
congradulations!
I hope you let us know about the arrival.
Actually, when I first saw your web site proposal my first
thought was ---why dont you have a baby instead?---.
turns out you are!
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Date: Thurs, Jun 5, 1997 at 03:46:39 (EDT)
Poster: Bill Cooper
Email:
To: Everyone
Subject: Lucid Dreaming
Message:
I've been meaning to write to everyone about this for some time. When I first started reading this site and writing here I didn't think it was appropriate because its not about DLM big M etc. Now I realize that anything that can get us talking is a good thing.

This year I bought a Novadreamer and started having lucid dreams. A lucid dream is one in which you awaken within the dream and realize that you are dreaming and can therefore do whatever you want. The novadreamer works by detecting your REM sleep and giving you a sequence of flashing lights. You have to train yourself during waking hours to recognize any flashing lights in your environment and then question if you might be in a dream and there follows a few specific tests to do.

It really is amazing, there you are in your dream the robot is chasing you firing its flashing laser gun and for some strange reason you start wondering if you are in a dream, you do the tests and BANG !! The realization hits you THIS IS A DREAM. The dream world comes alive, its like its really real . The first few times it happened to me I got so excited I kept waking up. It seems so real that you can question whether its safe to jump out of the window or proper to rip all the clothes off the woman standing next to you. Its easy to fall asleep into the dream again accepting that its all real.

I have had some brilliant lucid dreams. I particularly enjoy flying, the type where I just levitate by will and take off. Some people lucid dream just for the sex or food . Some use it to heal themselves and others to overcome fears or nightmares. Some use it as part of their spiritual journey, and others to investigate the structure of the dream world. I've read quite a few reports of people who say they have had the most profound experiences of their lives in lucid dreams. It begs the question of whether its possible to wake up in this life.

If anyone is interested its something I've got really interested in this year .I have found that while living in Singapore lucid dreaming has certainly given me a way of getting out of my head without losing it. I feel that lucid dreaming might be of use to ex premies because its such a profound experience of another reality. Theres a whole world out there to be explored only limited by our imagination and even better in time that we never use for anything else.
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Date: Thurs, Jun 5, 1997 at 05:25:51 (EDT)
Poster: Brian
Email:
To: Bill Cooper
Subject: Re: Lucid Dreaming
Message:
Fascinating questions raised in your post. What are the tests you do? How does it affect your waking state, if at all?
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Date: Thurs, Jun 5, 1997 at 08:57:14 (EDT)
Poster: Bill Cooper
Email:
To: Brian
Subject: Re: Lucid Dreaming
Message:
If you are wearing a novadreamer the flashing lights normally wake you up in a dream where you are in bed wearing a novadreamer. So whenever you wake up in bed with a novadreamer on you should press the button on your forehead which gives a specific sequence of flashes and beeps. In the dream it never does and will go boing or something strange instead.
Then you can go on to test if you can fly or not. Jump up and if you stay in the air just one second longer than normal you should be very suspicious that you are in a dream. Read a sign, look away and then read it again Is it the same ? in the dream world it is hard for writing to stay the same and very often when you start to scrutinise it the words will wriggle and change before your eyes like litlle worms. Digital clocks are great for some reason they can never read right in a dream and many mechanical objects when scrutinised will not operate as norm.

Very often these tests aren't necessary the fact that you are suspicious that you are in a dream world often triggers lucidity...and then the real magic begins.

you dont need a novadreamer to have lucid dreams all it does is increase the frequency of having them by triggering you while you are dreaming. The first step is to take some time in your day to question if you are in a dream or not and actually test it. If you do this regularly it wont be long before you find yourself doing it in a dream and then bingo.
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Date: Fri, Jun 6, 1997 at 23:15:56 (EDT)
Poster: Jim
Email:
To: Bill Cooper
Subject: Re: Lucid Dreaming
Message:
Bill, how long have you been playing with this sex toy? How does it affect your sleep? How obvious or subtle are the effects? I'm thinking of checking one out.
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Date: Sat, Jun 7, 1997 at 00:00:18 (EDT)
Poster: Bill Cooper
Email:
To: Jim
Subject: Re: Lucid Dreaming
Message:
I've been playing with it since December although I had lucid dreams very occaisionally in the past . As for the sex I've never got beyond a quick grope although I'm working on it. The flying is superb ! Its everything I ever wanted from hang gliding . Just studying the dream universe is fascinating in itself. It seems so real and yet things dont always go the way you expect in the waking world. I've personally enjoyed meditating and doing yoga in the lucid state and I've chatted to M a few times. The Novadreamer comes with a course in lucid dreaming ( La Berge institute ). The novadreamer of itself wont make you go lucid all it does is provide a dream sign for you to recognise that you are dreaming. You have to do the preparotary work of recognising your dream sign in the waking world.
I can really reccommend it . I think its an immensely powerful tool for whatever you want to use it for.There are lots of intersting things to try and learn. For example most of my lucid dreams are of me waking up in bed at night to realise that I'm dreaming. I have recently learnt to spin in order to change the dream scene and travel wherever I want.
These are dream induced lucid dreams, but there is another category called waking induced lucid dreaming where you go from the waking state directly into the lucid dream. Havent had one of those yet probably because I havent really tried. Think that phenomena might account for out of body experiences alien abductions etc because the lucid state seems so real and if you get there from gthe waking state its probably easy to not realise thatits a dream
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Date: Sat, Jun 7, 1997 at 09:30:43 (EDT)
Poster: the tom
Email:
To: Bill Cooper
Subject: Re: Lucid Dreaming
Message:
My friend eric does this and he told me that one time
he chased maharaji down in his dream and asked him about getting married and having kids. And eric said that
maraji said--- do you want to end up like the tom?--
Of course eric has always been apalled by my family
life so it does sound like eric playing all the characters in his dream.
He does like the lucid dreaming.
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Date: Sat, Jun 7, 1997 at 12:18:53 (EDT)
Poster: Jim
Email:
To: the tom
Subject: Re: Lucid Dreaming
Message:
Tom, does your firend use the novadreamer too?
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Date: Sat, Jun 7, 1997 at 14:36:15 (EDT)
Poster: tom
Email:
To: Bill Cooper
Subject: Re: Lucid Dreaming
Message:
my friend Eric does lucid dreaming.
he says its worth trying.
He told me that one time he was trying to chase maraji
down in his dream and he caught up to him and he asked him about relationships and haveing kids and he said the maraji character in his dream said---Do you want to end up like the tom?---. Now Eric has always been appalled
by my family life and so I think that Eric's own
brain is playing the other characters in his dreams.
Do you think that you can bump into other independent
beings, and /or are all the characters your own?
Or maybe a combination of the two.
That might be a tough one to confirm but speculation
is fun.
Im glad you felt free to bring that up.
My personal deprogramming phase seems to be about wrapping up so I guess the intensity will go back to wherever it came from.
some might be glad to hear that!
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Date: Sat, Jun 7, 1997 at 22:54:35 (EDT)
Poster: Bill Cooper
Email:
To: tom
Subject: Re: Lucid Dreaming
Message:
I'm pretty confident that the whole experience is a totally internally generated one. But the illusion of reality it can create can be so shocking that we forget it is a dream. After all, in our waking state, sense impressions get translated into electrical signals that somehow get decoded in our brais into an expereinceof the world. What we are expereincing now our sense of time depth colour etc are generatet in our brain. The only difference I assume is that in the waking world our expereince is generated from some external source but that in lucid dreams it is all internally generated.
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Date: Sat, Jun 7, 1997 at 23:04:48 (EDT)
Poster: Deena
Email:
To: Bill Cooper
Subject: Re: Lucid Dreaming
Message:
Lucid dreaming....I've been having lucid dreams since I was a little kid. I use to love to turn around and stop monsters that were chasing me and see their shock. And teachers faces were the best when I told them that they weren't real and couldn't do a thing to me. As I got older I use to fly alot, which is incredable. I use to remind myself that I could wake up in my dreams just before I'd go to sleep and it would quite often work. Of course sex is great in lucid dreams. But as I got more into M I found myself flying off to be with him...what a waste of time! I could have been having great sex!
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Date: Sun, Jun 8, 1997 at 00:45:29 (EDT)
Poster: Bill Cooper
Email:
To: Deena
Subject: Re: Lucid Dreaming
Message:
For myself I've always found conversations with M in lucid dreams to be bizarre which I think has reflected my own conflict over him. I'd rather go flying!!
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Date: Mon, Jun 9, 1997 at 23:07:17 (EDT)
Poster: Bill Cooper
Email:
To: Everyone
Subject: Re: Lucid Dreaming
Message:
Found this on the lucid dream news group thought you might find it interesting

**deepslep@concentric.net** wrote:
: On the subject of Lucid dreaming...

: Something I've discovered recently is the concept of 'day' awareness.
: This concept is similar to state testing, but different.
: Instead of testing reality once in a while why not BE AWARE all the
: time!


: What is 'day' awareness you're saying?

: Well...it's knowing what you're doing when you're doing it.
: This isn't philosophy or religion...this is practial information.
: It seems that the whole world is asleep...by that I mean thinking
: about what they have to do tomorrow or the next day, or thinking
: about the past...basically lost in thought. You'll see it all the
: time, people staring off into space lost in thought...caught up in
: their emotions or thought processes.

: How is this related to Lucid Dreaming....well, I got to thinking
: what's the use of being awake in the dreamstate when we're not awake
: in the waking state. AND...how should we expect to train our mind
: to know when were in the dreamstate when we can't even stay
: awake in the day...understand?

: Being awake in the day creates a critical mind...transferring to
: the dreamstate...hopefully.

: How do you become awake in the daytime you say?
: Ans: Catch yourself asleep.

: Example:
: I'll be watching TV or cleaning the house...whatever...going along
: and suddenly I'll realize I was lost in thought - thinking about
: some old girlfriend or about the future...never AWARE about
: now, the present. What's more important than NOW and what's more
: important than LIVING the moment. I'll get extremely upset at myself
: when I suddenly realize I'd be asleep for hours...it's just the
: way we been thought.


: SO...hopefully creating this critical awareness during the daytime will
: transfer itself over to the nightime? Who knows...something to think
: about...I'll tell you, its been in my thoughts.

: R.

This is similar to the core teaching of Thich Nhat Hanh. He call it
"Mindfulness"...one of his popular book is _The Miracle of Mindfulness_
I don't know if he have any lds, but he seems to be extremely lucid
during the day.
For those who would like to try this...just a note of warning...it is
excruciating difficult...you will find that your mind is NOT under your
control. It is essentially meditation 24hrs/day.
good luck.

Hey might be something in this meditation after all !!
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Date: Mon, Jun 9, 1997 at 23:12:33 (EDT)
Poster: Jim
Email:
To: Bill Cooper
Subject: Re: Lucid Dreaming
Message:
I'll buy one of these things if [I love my html skills] you can decipher the post from 'bass'. I'm not asking you Tom. I'm sure you could. I'm asking Mr. Cooper.
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Date: Tues, Jun 10, 1997 at 05:47:57 (EDT)
Poster: Bill Cooper
Email:
To: Jim
Subject: Re: Lucid Dreaming
Message:
Hey try one Jim its FUN. and its a whole new territory to explore. As for Bass, Tom et al, all I can think was the sixties must have been good for them. I dunno a lot of the new stuff is undecipherable to me I was going to ask you to explain the in joke.
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Date: Tues, Jun 10, 1997 at 08:50:10 (EDT)
Poster: tom
Email:
To: Bill Cooper
Subject: Re: Lucid Dreaming
Message:
bingo!
what a great post.
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Date: Thurs, Jun 5, 1997 at 00:02:39 (EDT)
Poster: B.J.
Email:
To: Everyone
Subject: The Parable of the Horse Dung
Message:
It came to pass that on the road to Galilee outside of Capernaum there was a great pit, full of horse dung. Now as two young boys were walking along, lo, they stumbled and fell straight into the pit of dung.

The first boy was overcome with fear and thrashed about, for he had always feared such a fate. Eventually his thrashing and fear overcame him and alas, he drowned in the pit of dung. Now the second boy, who had recently asked his father for a gift, managed to climb out of the pit directly, and seemed to be glad of heart bearing a smile upon his face. When a man ran up to help him come out of the pit and saw the second boy's glad countenance, he asked, 'why such gladness?'

The second boy answered, 'With all of that horse shit, I just know there must be a pony around here somewhere!'

And so my departed brethren, which boy are you?

B.J.
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Date: Thurs, Jun 5, 1997 at 01:10:04 (EDT)
Poster: Bill Cooper
Email:
To: B.J.
Subject: Re: The Parable of the Horse Dung
Message:
Good one BJ
Heres another

Once upon a time, there was a new age sparrow who decided not to fly south for the winter. All his friends had gone and it was getting very cold and he was lonely. So he decided to finally head south and started flying. However, it was so cold that his wings froze and he fell to earth and landed in a paddock. He lay there freezing and thinking that this was the end but a cow went past and shat on him. This warm cowpat revived the little sparrow and he was very happy and started to sing. A cat came by, and hearing the singing, cleared away the shit and found the happy bird and ate him.


There are 3 morals to this story:-

1. anyone who shits on you is not necessarily your enemy.

2. anyone who gets you out of shit is not necessarily your friend.

3. if you are warm and happy and in a pile of shit... for goodness sake, keep your bloody mouth shut!
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Date: Thurs, Jun 5, 1997 at 05:26:34 (EDT)
Poster: Anon
Email:
To: B.J.
Subject: Re: The Parable of the Horse Dung
Message:
It came to pass that on the road to Galilee outside of Capernaum there was a great pit, full of horse dung. Now as two young boys were walking along, lo, they stumbled and fell straight into the pit of dung.

The first boy was overcome with fear and thrashed about, for he had always feared such a fate. Eventually his thrashing and fear overcame him and alas, he drowned in the pit of dung. Now the second boy, who had recently asked his father for a gift, managed to climb out of the pit directly, and seemed to be glad of heart bearing a smile upon his face. When a man ran up to help him come out of the pit and saw the second boy's glad countenance, he asked, 'why such gladness?'

The second boy answered, 'With all of that horse shit, I just know there must be a pony around here somewhere!'

And so my departed brethren, which boy are you?

B.J.
Call me stupid but this I don't get this 'would be' parable. Is it just ill-conceived or am I missing something? If you want to say something B.J why dont you come out and say it clearly ? The moral of your tale is confusing.Somebody explain please what it all means.
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Date: Thurs, Jun 5, 1997 at 05:39:58 (EDT)
Poster: Brian
Email:
To: Anon
Subject: Re: The Parable of the Horse Dung
Message:
Call me stupid but this I don't get this 'would be' parable. Is it just ill-conceived or am I missing something? If you want to say something B.J why dont you come out and say it clearly ? The moral of your tale is confusing. Somebody explain please what it all means.

If you find yourself in an unpleasant situation, then you must choose between fear and pretense, I guess. I've seen this story in various forms before. Usually told by people who fancy themselves to be motivational speakers, as an example of optimism. Don't know why BJ posted it here.
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Date: Thurs, Jun 5, 1997 at 07:31:29 (EDT)
Poster: Paul
Email: oily2000@aol.com
To: B.J.
Subject: Re: The Parable of the Horse Dung
Message:
It came to pass that on the road to Galilee outside of Capernaum there was a great pit, full of horse dung. Now as two young boys were walking along, lo, they stumbled and fell straight into the pit of dung.

The first boy was overcome with fear and thrashed about, for he had always feared such a fate. Eventually his thrashing and fear overcame him and alas, he drowned in the pit of dung. Now the second boy, who had recently asked his father for a gift, managed to climb out of the pit directly, and seemed to be glad of heart bearing a smile upon his face. When a man ran up to help him come out of the pit and saw the second boy's glad countenance, he asked, 'why such gladness?'

The second boy answered, 'With all of that horse shit, I just know there must be a pony around here somewhere!'

And so my departed brethren, which boy are you?

B.J.
It would be better if the 2nd boy was able to rescue the 1st boy, and then take him to comfort on the pony.

Paul
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Date: Thurs, Jun 5, 1997 at 09:39:11 (EDT)
Poster: B.J.
Email:
To: Paul
Subject: Re: The Parable of the Horse Dung
Message:
Paul my man,
That only happens if fairy tales!
What really happened was the second boy offered the first boy to help him get out of the pit, but the boy in the pit told the second boy he was 'full of shit' with the wild tale about ponies, and proceeded to drown.

B.J.

PS. Moral: Not you are what you eat, 'You are what you think!'.
Submoral: Fortunately, the above moral is wrong, 'You are what you are!'
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Date: Thurs, Jun 5, 1997 at 11:16:21 (EDT)
Poster: Paul
Email:
To: B.J.
Subject: Re: The Parable of the Horse Dung
Message:
B.J.

Some People listen - so I'll keep tellin people about the pony.

All the best.

Paul
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Date: Thurs, Jun 5, 1997 at 11:53:20 (EDT)
Poster: JW
Email:
To: Brian
Subject: Re: The Parable of the Horse Dung
Message:
I have always found that parables of this type are the bastion of people who are devoid of anything meaningful to say. Guru Maharaj Ji did this all the time. I remember thinking that if I heard him tell that joke/parable about god telling St. Peter to give the newly dead soul 25 cents and to go to hell, I would vomit. I never did figure out what the "moral" of that was; I guess that good works alone will not get you into heaven? What that had to do with anything GMJ was supposedly about I never knew.


But I agree, that this particular "parable" might be a version of the "glass-empty-glass-full" morals, or maybe the "making-the-best-of-a-bad-situation" or "never-be-negative" stuff. Cult leaders thrive on the peer pressure in the cult group to "never be negative." I recall that being called "negative" in the Guru Maharaj Ji cult, was one of the worst things that could happen to you. If you were labeled that, you could forget about being an initiator or ever getting service at one of the guru's residences.
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Date: Thurs, Jun 5, 1997 at 12:34:52 (EDT)
Poster: B.J.
Email:
To: JW
Subject: Re: The Parable of the Horse Dung
Message:
Oh ye of much negativity,
Hope you enjoy your little bath down there!

B.J.
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Date: Thurs, Jun 5, 1997 at 17:42:26 (EDT)
Poster: JW
Email:
To: B.J.
Subject: Re: The Parable of the Horse Dung
Message:
I cannot explain my reaction to your post. I used to know a parable that would explain exactly how I feel and what I think, but I forgot it, so I will do an interpretive dance instead.
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Date: Thurs, Jun 5, 1997 at 20:26:39 (EDT)
Poster: Jim
Email:
To: JW
Subject: Re: The Parable of the Horse Dung
Message:
I cannot explain my reaction to your post. I used to know a parable that would explain exactly how I feel and what I think, but I forgot it, so I will do an interpretive dance instead.
My heart tells me that this is funny.
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Date: Thurs, Jun 5, 1997 at 22:31:41 (EDT)
Poster: the tom
Email:
To: JW
Subject: Re: The Parable of the Horse Dung
Message:
I think you are my favorite
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Date: Wed, Jun 4, 1997 at 23:30:25 (EDT)
Poster: Scott
Email:
To: Everyone
Subject: New archive #11
Message:
Dear forum participants,
- I just returned from my trip out of town to find it is once again time to archive. Should be done with this one in the next hour or so if everything goes well.

- Scott
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Date: Thurs, Jun 5, 1997 at 00:27:14 (EDT)
Poster: Scott
Email:
To: All
Subject: Re: New archive #11
Message:
Archive #11 is now available.

Scott
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