Ex-Premie.Org

Forum II Archive # 1

From: Nov 15, 1997

To: Dec 9, 1997

Page: 2 Of: 5


Annie -:- ? -:- Fri, Dec 5, 1997 at 16:34:20 (EST)
___Katie -:- Re: ? -:- Fri, Dec 5, 1997 at 17:59:16 (EST)
___JW -:- Re: ? -:- Fri, Dec 5, 1997 at 19:30:36 (EST)
___Deena Definately Tasteful -:- Re: ? -:- Fri, Dec 5, 1997 at 20:56:53 (EST)
___Annie -:- Re: Tasteful Deena -:- Fri, Dec 5, 1997 at 22:41:19 (EST)
___Annie -:- My "Respond To Joe" File -:- Fri, Dec 5, 1997 at 22:46:36 (EST)
___bftb -:- Re: ? -:- Fri, Dec 5, 1997 at 23:14:19 (EST)
___Ministry of Silly Walks -:- Re: ? -:- Fri, Dec 5, 1997 at 23:19:36 (EST)
___Mike -:- Love One Another -:- Fri, Dec 5, 1997 at 23:53:34 (EST)
___anonomousie -:- Aerily Dear -:- Sat, Dec 6, 1997 at 00:38:50 (EST)
___trash talking mama -:- naughty and nice -:- Sat, Dec 6, 1997 at 01:17:07 (EST)
___Gerbal Dating Service -:- Re: Aerily Dear -:- Sat, Dec 6, 1997 at 10:34:25 (EST)
___Mili -:- Re: Aerily Dear -:- Sat, Dec 6, 1997 at 11:03:55 (EST)
___Mili -:- Re: Aerily Dear -:- Sat, Dec 6, 1997 at 11:48:15 (EST)
___Katie -:- Anonomousie revealed -:- Sat, Dec 6, 1997 at 12:14:21 (EST)
___Mili -:- Re: Anonomousie revealed -:- Sat, Dec 6, 1997 at 12:26:39 (EST)
___Katie -:- Re: Anonomousie revealed -:- Sat, Dec 6, 1997 at 12:31:11 (EST)
___Bobby -:- Re: Love One Another -:- Sat, Dec 6, 1997 at 13:13:24 (EST)
___Mike -:- Re: Love One Another -:- Sat, Dec 6, 1997 at 15:34:32 (EST)
___JW -:- Re: My 'Respond To Joe' File -:- Mon, Dec 8, 1997 at 13:06:11 (EST)

JW -:- Maharaji's Mistress -:- Fri, Dec 5, 1997 at 14:36:18 (EST)
___Mr Ex -:- Re: Maharaji's Mistress -:- Fri, Dec 5, 1997 at 17:47:04 (EST)
___Mr Ex -:- Re: Maharaji's Mistress & Money -:- Fri, Dec 5, 1997 at 17:50:48 (EST)
___Mr Ex -:- Re: Maharaji's Mistress & Money -:- Fri, Dec 5, 1997 at 17:51:00 (EST)
___Mili -:- Re: Maharaji's Mistress -:- Fri, Dec 5, 1997 at 19:00:16 (EST)
___Mili -:- Re: Maharaji's Mistress & Money -:- Fri, Dec 5, 1997 at 20:54:51 (EST)
___Deena T -:- Re: Maharaji's Mistress & Money -:- Fri, Dec 5, 1997 at 21:02:10 (EST)
___Mili -:- Re: Maharaji's Mistress & Money -:- Fri, Dec 5, 1997 at 21:11:02 (EST)
___Mr Ex -:- Re: Maharaji's Mistress & Money -:- Sat, Dec 6, 1997 at 05:25:17 (EST)
___Mili -:- Re: Maharaji's Mistress & Money -:- Sat, Dec 6, 1997 at 05:54:28 (EST)
___Mili -:- Re: Maharaji's Mistress & Money -:- Sat, Dec 6, 1997 at 05:59:51 (EST)
___Mr Ex -:- Re: Maharaji's Mistress -:- Mon, Dec 8, 1997 at 09:54:18 (EST)
___Brian -:- Re: Maharaji's Mistress -:- Mon, Dec 8, 1997 at 11:32:09 (EST)
___JW -:- Re: Maharaji's Mistress & Money -:- Mon, Dec 8, 1997 at 12:11:48 (EST)

Mike -:- The Nine Techniques -:- Fri, Dec 5, 1997 at 10:01:24 (EST)
___Bobby -:- Re: The Nine Techniques -:- Fri, Dec 5, 1997 at 10:17:22 (EST)

Deena -:- Love -:- Fri, Dec 5, 1997 at 01:50:28 (EST)
___Above post is tasteful -:- Re: Love -:- Fri, Dec 5, 1997 at 01:52:48 (EST)
___Bobby -:- Re: Love -:- Fri, Dec 5, 1997 at 07:13:30 (EST)
___Deena Tastful -:- Re: Love -:- Fri, Dec 5, 1997 at 10:51:04 (EST)
___David Simpkiss -:- Re: Love -:- Fri, Dec 5, 1997 at 12:16:57 (EST)
___JW -:- Re: Love -:- Fri, Dec 5, 1997 at 12:43:13 (EST)
___Deena Not Tasteful -:- Re: Love -:- Fri, Dec 5, 1997 at 13:43:40 (EST)
___Deena T -:- Re: Love -:- Fri, Dec 5, 1997 at 13:49:40 (EST)
___Mili -:- Re: Love -:- Fri, Dec 5, 1997 at 16:37:58 (EST)
___Mili -:- Re: Love -:- Sat, Dec 6, 1997 at 04:28:03 (EST)

Mike -:- Mustash and Gotee??? -:- Thurs, Dec 4, 1997 at 22:50:41 (EST)
___Sir Noddy of Toytown -:- Re: Mustash and Gotee??? -:- Fri, Dec 5, 1997 at 14:48:07 (EST)
___Hey Scott -:- Please get rid of that picture! -:- Fri, Dec 5, 1997 at 15:35:18 (EST)
___Airalee, give us one of your -:- pictures for the top -:- Sat, Dec 6, 1997 at 10:08:15 (EST)

Bobby -:- Christmas Greetings -:- Thurs, Dec 4, 1997 at 22:41:03 (EST)
___Brian -:- Re: Christmas Greetings -:- Fri, Dec 5, 1997 at 06:37:33 (EST)
___b -:- Re: Christmas Greetings -:- Sun, Dec 7, 1997 at 23:12:09 (EST)

Mike -:- Mahatma Satyanand a TMr??? -:- Thurs, Dec 4, 1997 at 21:23:33 (EST)
___Sir David (to you) -:- Re: Mahatma Satyanand a TMr??? -:- Thurs, Dec 4, 1997 at 22:24:48 (EST)
___Mike -:- Re: Mahatma Satyanand a TMr??? -:- Thurs, Dec 4, 1997 at 22:53:14 (EST)

bftb -:- Divine&Worldly?Master&Manipulator? -:- Thurs, Dec 4, 1997 at 18:27:39 (EST)
___JW -:- Re: Divine&Worldly?Master&Manipulator? -:- Thurs, Dec 4, 1997 at 19:56:21 (EST)
___beserk -:- Radiating Grace -:- Thurs, Dec 4, 1997 at 23:51:38 (EST)
___David Simpkiss -:- Re: Radiating Grace -:- Fri, Dec 5, 1997 at 00:39:56 (EST)
___b -:- Re: Radiating Grace -:- Fri, Dec 5, 1997 at 07:57:40 (EST)
___Deena Tasteful -:- Re: Radiating Grace -:- Fri, Dec 5, 1997 at 11:05:10 (EST)
___David Simpkiss -:- Re: Radiating Grace -:- Fri, Dec 5, 1997 at 11:51:36 (EST)
___last gasps of the -:- excuse maker -:- Fri, Dec 5, 1997 at 22:25:23 (EST)

Katie -:- Dr. John Horton -:- Thurs, Dec 4, 1997 at 14:50:08 (EST)
___Bobby -:- Re: Dr. John Horton -:- Thurs, Dec 4, 1997 at 15:52:48 (EST)
___Bobby -:- Re: Dr. John Horton -:- Thurs, Dec 4, 1997 at 15:53:18 (EST)
___JW -:- Re: Dr. John Horton -:- Thurs, Dec 4, 1997 at 16:07:39 (EST)
___Bobby -:- Re: Dr. John Horton -:- Thurs, Dec 4, 1997 at 16:40:48 (EST)
___malpractice -:- Horton hears a who -:- Fri, Dec 5, 1997 at 00:41:53 (EST)
___John -:- Re: Horton hears a who -:- Fri, Dec 5, 1997 at 11:25:54 (EST)
___JW -:- Re: Horton hears a who -:- Fri, Dec 5, 1997 at 11:58:47 (EST)
___Katie -:- off the subject -:- Fri, Dec 5, 1997 at 12:04:32 (EST)
___Bobby -:- Re: Horton hears a who -:- Fri, Dec 5, 1997 at 12:16:36 (EST)
___JW -:- Re: Horton hears a who -:- Fri, Dec 5, 1997 at 12:23:56 (EST)
___Mili -:- Re: Horton hears a who -:- Fri, Dec 5, 1997 at 16:20:01 (EST)
___John -:- Re: off the subject -:- Fri, Dec 5, 1997 at 16:47:04 (EST)
___Katie -:- Re: off the subject -:- Fri, Dec 5, 1997 at 18:28:02 (EST)
___JW -:- Re: off the subject -:- Fri, Dec 5, 1997 at 19:07:10 (EST)
___Katie -:- Re: off the subject -:- Fri, Dec 5, 1997 at 19:38:44 (EST)
___JW -:- Re: off the subject -:- Fri, Dec 5, 1997 at 20:47:04 (EST)
___Miss Kitty -:- Re: off the subject -:- Fri, Dec 5, 1997 at 21:44:12 (EST)

Deena -:- Tasteful and Distastful Post -:- Thurs, Dec 4, 1997 at 10:49:46 (EST)
___Mike -:- Re: Tasteful and Distastful Post -:- Thurs, Dec 4, 1997 at 11:48:57 (EST)
___Mr Ex -:- Re: Distastful Post -:- Thurs, Dec 4, 1997 at 11:57:12 (EST)
___Deena - Tastefull -:- Re: Distastful Post -:- Thurs, Dec 4, 1997 at 12:26:33 (EST)
___Mr Y -:- Re: Distastful Post -:- Thurs, Dec 4, 1997 at 12:43:29 (EST)
___Deena Tasteful -:- Re: Distastful Post -:- Thurs, Dec 4, 1997 at 13:52:24 (EST)
___Katie -:- You Go, Girl! -:- Thurs, Dec 4, 1997 at 14:09:48 (EST)
___Mr Y -:- Re: Distastful Post -:- Thurs, Dec 4, 1997 at 15:48:37 (EST)
___Deena -:- Re: Distastful Post -:- Thurs, Dec 4, 1997 at 16:42:01 (EST)
___Michael -:- Re: Tasteful and Distastful Post -:- Thurs, Dec 4, 1997 at 19:34:45 (EST)
___JW -:- Re: Tasteful and Distastful Post -:- Thurs, Dec 4, 1997 at 20:05:51 (EST)
___bobby -:- hold on to your hats, here's another -:- Thurs, Dec 4, 1997 at 20:41:53 (EST)
___Mama maya -:- and the three gunas -:- Fri, Dec 5, 1997 at 00:03:34 (EST)
___Knight of the Stocking Top -:- Re: hold on to your hats, here's another -:- Fri, Dec 5, 1997 at 00:11:50 (EST)
___Sir Noddy of Toytown -:- Re: and the three gunas -:- Fri, Dec 5, 1997 at 01:01:35 (EST)
___Deena Tasteful -:- Re: hold on to your hats, here's another -:- Fri, Dec 5, 1997 at 01:38:49 (EST)
___Mr Ex -:- Re: BigM is Distasteful -:- Fri, Dec 5, 1997 at 12:06:24 (EST)
___Mili -:- Re: BigM is Distasteful -:- Fri, Dec 5, 1997 at 12:25:26 (EST)
___David Simpkiss -:- Re: BigM is Distasteful -:- Fri, Dec 5, 1997 at 12:34:13 (EST)
___Mr Ex -:- Re: BigM is Distasteful -:- Fri, Dec 5, 1997 at 13:01:51 (EST)
___JW -:- Re: BigM is Distasteful -:- Fri, Dec 5, 1997 at 14:27:19 (EST)
___Mili -:- Re: BigM is Distasteful -:- Fri, Dec 5, 1997 at 15:18:12 (EST)
___Mr Ex -:- Re: BigM is Distasteful -:- Fri, Dec 5, 1997 at 18:08:21 (EST)
___Mili -:- Re: BigM is Distasteful -:- Fri, Dec 5, 1997 at 19:08:47 (EST)
___JW -:- Re: BigM is Distasteful -:- Fri, Dec 5, 1997 at 19:10:10 (EST)
___Katie -:- Re: BigM is Distasteful -:- Fri, Dec 5, 1997 at 19:25:44 (EST)
___Mili -:- Re: BigM is Distasteful -:- Fri, Dec 5, 1997 at 21:06:59 (EST)
___Mili -:- Re: BigM is Distasteful -:- Sat, Dec 6, 1997 at 05:56:48 (EST)
___JW -:- Re: BigM is Distasteful -:- Mon, Dec 8, 1997 at 11:38:13 (EST)
___Brian -:- Re: BigM is Distasteful -:- Mon, Dec 8, 1997 at 15:42:19 (EST)

Annie -:- BlahBlahBlahBlahBlah -:- Thurs, Dec 4, 1997 at 02:07:12 (EST)
___annie -:- To BBurke; and memories of Jim -:- Thurs, Dec 4, 1997 at 03:32:18 (EST)
___JW -:- Re: To BBurke; and memories of Jim -:- Thurs, Dec 4, 1997 at 13:53:41 (EST)
___JW -:- Re: To BBurke; and memories of Jim -:- Thurs, Dec 4, 1997 at 14:12:51 (EST)
___Katie -:- You Go, Boy -:- Thurs, Dec 4, 1997 at 15:03:38 (EST)
___Deena -:- Annie why doesn't your link work?Re: BlahBlahBlahBlahBlah -:- Fri, Dec 5, 1997 at 01:47:49 (EST)
___Bobby -:- Re: Annie why doesn't your link work?BlahBlahBlahBlahBlah -:- Fri, Dec 5, 1997 at 07:23:56 (EST)
___Deena Tasteful -:- Re: Annie why doesn't your link work?BlahBlahBlahBlahBlah -:- Fri, Dec 5, 1997 at 11:12:51 (EST)
___Bobby -:- Re: Annie why doesn't your link work?BlahBlahBlahBlahBlah -:- Fri, Dec 5, 1997 at 11:43:29 (EST)



Date: Fri, Dec 5, 1997 at 16:34:20 (EST)
Poster: Annie
Email: aerily@al.com
To: Anyone
Subject: ?
Message:
I read in a post, I think from Katie, that this forum is meant for ex-premies. In one post from Joe, he asserts that I refused to address his questions and points raised. Another person challenged my saying that I was not sure if this was all serving any purpose. The question about purpose is for me, myself -- reading & posting here is time consuming; and if as Katie states, this is really a forum for expremies -- which I am not -- I wonder if my posting serves any purpose but to use up time that I am borrowing from other places in my life. I wonder at my own motives for writing; I don't think it has been to attempt to dissuade any of you from your viewpoints. I don't get a sense that what I have to express is being considered, except in order for my words to be disproved or ridiculed. Or perhaps for me to be compassionately pitied, as I continue to feel that Maharaji is worthy of my respect. Joe, I have saved a file of several recent posts from you which were addressed to me; this so that I might respond thoughtfully when I had the time to do so. I have not and do not refuse to answer anything; but I do wonder whether you care what I think or say. My writing about Jim was only sentimental reminiscing, intended to be humorous; it followed in my mind from the comments regarding sarcasm, which were a response to a post from burke, I think, I cannot keep track of who he is; but just for the record, I have always been fond of Jim; it is possible to love and hate someone at the same time, which I did back then. I don't recall the size of the towel, however, only that his energy in those moments was distinctly seductive. And although I was living in the ashram, I was also still legally married to Michael. It was I, responding to a private email from Deena, who expressed that I had found many of her posts to be tasteless. I appreciate that she has not publicly denounced me, and though maybe with tongue-in-cheek the subject note re tasteless or not tasteless, I actually felt that she was responding with a measure of respect for my sensitivity, and I appreciate that as well, even if its only my imagination. I don't wish to simply assume, so I will pose these questions, and ask for truthful response: Are posts here from non-ex-premies unwelcome? And if not, what value do they have to you?
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Date: Fri, Dec 5, 1997 at 17:59:16 (EST)
Poster: Katie
Email: petkat@mail.trib.net
To: Annie
Subject: Re: ?
Message:
I read in a post, I think from Katie, that this forum is meant for ex-premies. In one post from Joe, he asserts that I refused to address his questions and points raised. Another person challenged my saying that I was not sure if this was all serving any purpose. The question about purpose is for me, myself -- reading & posting here is time consuming; and if as Katie states, this is really a forum for expremies -- which I am not -- I wonder if my posting serves any purpose but to use up time that I am borrowing from other places in my life. I wonder at my own motives for writing; I don't think it has been to attempt to dissuade any of you from your viewpoints. I don't get a sense that what I have to express is being considered, except in order for my words to be disproved or ridiculed. Or perhaps for me to be compassionately pitied, as I continue to feel that Maharaji is worthy of my respect. (edit) I don't wish to simply assume, so I will pose these questions, and ask for truthful response: Are posts here from non-ex-premies unwelcome? And if not, what value do they have to you? Annie - of course posts from non-ex-premies (including premies) are welcome here. The reason I said that the forum was "for" ex-premies is because the group that is organizing and running it is the Ex-Premie Association. Therefore, premies who post on here need to be aware that many of the other posters have negative opinions about Maharaji, and that it's considered all right to express these opinions, even though they may offend premies. That's all I meant, really - sorry if I seemed to exclude you. I can't speak for everyone, but I do value posts from current premies because almost every premie who posts on here has a slightly different take on following Maharaji and practicing Knowledge, which is very interesting to me. I didn't see or hear from a practicing premie for 20 years after I left Maharaji. I always got kind of a bad feeling when I thought about premies and tried to avoid situations where I would run into any of the premies that I used to know. (One of my ex-premie housemates used to call accidental meetings with premies "Close Encounters of the Worst Kind".)Thanks to the newsgroup, and now this forum, I have learned that all premies are not weird and alienated, and I have liked most of the premies that I have met on here. I'd be interested in your thoughts and feelings on what the posts on here mean to you, and whether you get any value out of them. P.S. I really like Jim (much to the dismay of some of the other people who post on here), and I did like your story about him very much. I hope he does too! But I think he will.
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Date: Fri, Dec 5, 1997 at 19:30:36 (EST)
Poster: JW
Email:
To: Annie
Subject: Re: ?
Message:
I don't know of any premie who has been excluded from this site. And there is even a cross-link to the premie page, although Maharaji has now banished that page. But, interestingly, there was never any link for THAT page to this one, and several ex-premmies WERE banished from that page. I personally have learned a lot about my involvement with Maharaji by hearing what both ex-premies and premies have to say. However, in my experience, some premies love Maharaji and don't want to see or hear anything negative about him. They sometimes take criticism of M personally. Obviously, a lot of criticism goes on here so be warned. Also, concerning "tastless" remarks, I think you have to understand that many of us have had just as much, if not more, interaction and involvement with Maharaji that you have had, and we have very different opinions of him that you apparently do. But given our extensive involvement with him, we are entitled to those opinions and that involvemnt gives them some validity. I did react to your "Blah blah" post because, in my perception, your summarily said that no one got hurt in Maharaji's cult and that we were all there by our free wills. I really disagree with that, and my experience has definitely been otherwise. When I made the statement about "not serving any purpsose," I was simply quoting you. Concerning your motives, only you know what they are. Could it be that you find some of these discussions interesting? Now Annie, you have to admit that your post about Jim coming out of the shower was kind of bizarre, even for this site, and, in case you didn't know, my response was also meant to be humerous, although I may not have succeeded in that regard. Frankly, I sometimes enjoy posts from premies because they remind me of the way I used to think. It is very familiar. But I would never say that a premie isn't having a great experience, if they say they are. I mean I tend to take that at face value. But I think a premie should also be able to take my experience at face value as well. But, I know that when I was a premie, it was hard for me to do that, because I believed so strongly in Maharaji and his knowledge. Also, not all premies are dogmatic, and neither are all ex-premies. Some people on both sides aren't exactly sure how they feel about these things. Unfortunately, Maharaji doesn't seem to be really into people hashing that out through discussions, or even satsang, anymore. Wonder why that is? I am looking forward to your responses to my posts. JW
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Date: Fri, Dec 5, 1997 at 20:56:53 (EST)
Poster: Deena Definately Tasteful
Email: deena@cableregina.com
To: Annie
Subject: Re: ?
Message:
Hi Annie. I'm glad that you appreciate my rating system....although there was some humor in it, my first intention was to set it up so that you could actually read some of my posts. I don't want people to be turned off. I am just expressing myself sincerely and I don't see any problem with being sensitive to you.
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Date: Fri, Dec 5, 1997 at 22:41:19 (EST)
Poster: Annie
Email: aerily@aol.com
To: Deena
Subject: Re: Tasteful Deena (Re: ?)
Message:
Thank you Deena, as I said I appreciate it and have read much of what you've written since that email exchange.
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Date: Fri, Dec 5, 1997 at 22:46:36 (EST)
Poster: Annie
Email: aerily@aol.com
To: Joe Whalen
Subject: My "Respond To Joe" File (Re: ?)
Message:
Joe: I am emailing to you the entirety of those posts from you which I have saved. The reason I'm sending it to you by email is that I am honestly not sure which points or questions you wish me to address; and I could go through your words sentence-by-sentence, if you wish, though it will take some time, and I would probably be repeating myself over and over and over and over. Truthfully I don't feel like I have a lot to say that I haven't already said either on the dejanews forum or here in this forum. Also, I raised a point in my most recent post which you did not respond to directly; which is that I wonder if you really care what I think or feel about this stuff. I have the impression at times that you have read my posts hastily, misread, or skipped over things. My post here, written on November 27, under the subject RE:Confessions of an Ex Instructor, sums up my point of view; and how can I address things which I just cannot relate to because they are 180 degrees opposite of my own experiences? Except to say, jeez, what a weird life, and I guess we each have to figure it out for ourselves. Believe me, I have heard all of the bad news about Maharaji before. It simply is not my own first hand experience of him, and I'm trying to stay away from rumors and speculations and premie concepts and stick to what I know, for myself, now. You are correct that I find much in these discussions interesting, some humorous, some idiotic, some thought-provoking. If you wish me to respond to all your posts, without ignoring or missing anything, I would be grateful if you would distill them just a bit for me, and either email it back to me or post it here. I will do my best, if it matters to you that I respond, but ask that if we both go to so much trouble that you will read carefully and think about what I write, rather than rush to invalidate it or make fun of me. [I am one of those sensitive people.]
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Date: Fri, Dec 5, 1997 at 23:14:19 (EST)
Poster: bftb
Email:
To: Annie
Subject: Re: ?
Message:
Oops,I goofed.Sincerest apologies Annie;I completely misinterpreted what you said/meant.I thought you were questioning whether or not this forum was serving a purpose. I would never question yours or anyone else's right to question how they valued something personally,or what purpose something served for them. My mistake. For what it's worth;I do enjoy reading your posts and find them to be of great value.
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Date: Fri, Dec 5, 1997 at 23:19:36 (EST)
Poster: Ministry of Silly Walks
Email: djulian@cix.compulink.co.uk
To: Annie
Subject: Re: ?
Message:
It was the seperation of premies and non premies which I disliked most intensely in the old DLM. That is now just some far and distant memory and we don't want to revive such shallowness here. We're all in the same boat as I see it. I never thought of myself as an ex-premie although that seems to be a label that's been put onto me. I am very grateful for all your communication both here and by email. We all need love and understanding, both (so called) ex-premies and premies. We're all in this together and the best thing is understanding and compassion which we can give each other. David Simpkiss
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Date: Fri, Dec 5, 1997 at 23:53:34 (EST)
Poster: Mike
Email: bigguy32@juno.com
To: Ministry of Silly Walks
Subject: Love One Another (Re: ?)
Message:
I can tell you all that I value each and everyone of one of you... premie/ex-premie alike because as I posted below... for such a long time I felt like the last premie. Like the party was over and I woke up from a Nectar Drunk and looked around and the place had cleared out. It felt almost as intense as your parents fighting during a holiday and clearing out to the shock of the rest of the family members. I look forward to talking with all of you everyday because it's like breathing again after nearly 20 years. The Sanga (premies/ex-premies)is just as important to me as the Buddha (my inner Lord) and the Dharma (Knowledge)! We've all spoken of implied ground rules for this forum which I think that it has to be safe for us to talk to each other without attacking each other. Yes, we will most definitely disagree on our most passionate points! However, how we handle it... hopefully in a caring way, will determine the success of this forum and it will determine how much we grow from our interaction with each other. We are all the face of our teacher to each other! We have some hard stuff to deal with and since Prempal Singh doesn't look like he's going to respond/join-in anytime soon... we're on our own to sort it out for ourselves. We all have certain levels of coping mechanisms... ways that we deal with stress and anxiety. Each person may or may not know that they have the perfect right to judge and accept or deny things that they are told. We control the Gate of our Minds! Those who don't feel they have a right to reject something non-edifying will over-react or panic. I'm glad to see that we all have been feeling safe enough to say when something doesn't feel right and take care of each other when we do ask for help this way.
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Date: Sat, Dec 6, 1997 at 00:38:50 (EST)
Poster: anonomousie
Email: Poconos honeymoon hotel
To: Annie
Subject: Aerily Dear (Re: ?)
Message:
Well, Annie, you are lucky you lived with him when he was in the ashram. He was wilder later. If you had ever called his bluff right after a shower, and said 'come on, right now', you would have been in for a bit of a wait. I know 99 percent of the men give the other 1 percent a bad name, but if men knew how to make love they wouldn't have to pay for it. Dr Ruth says we women should tell our lovers how to make love to us, but Jim would go nuts if I told him how to drive! If they can put a man on the moon, why can't they put MOST of them there? God made man, then said, 'I can do better than that' and created women. He would accost me around the house trying to have an affair with me which I always refused because I want to see the ring. It's that ole 'why buy the cow when you get the milk for free' logic. He would say things like; 'what is a four letter word that ends with a K and means intercourse?' and I said 'talk' 'what goes in pink and stiff and comes out soft and squishy? and I said 'chewing gum' he came up when I was ironing and said; 'What does a man have in his pocket that's about six inches long, has a head on it, and women love it so much they often blow it?' and I said 'money!' He would get all frustrated. In the kitchen he said; 'What is long and hard and contains seamen?' and I said 'a submarine!' 'Where do women have the curliest hair?' and I said 'Africa!' 'what's big and hairy and sticks out of a man's pajamas and is so big he can hang his hat on it?' and I said 'his head' he said 'what does a man have that get's bigger when you stroke it?' and I said 'his ego' and I said 'look stop this!' he said 'what is wrong with you?' I said 'look, I don't sleep with men who name thier dicks.' When I'm dating I look at the guy and wonder, 'is this the man I want my children to spend every other weekend with?' You have three kids, thats nice, the rule of thumb is; never have more children than car windows. The phrase 'working mother' is redundant. MY mother just wants me to be happy--doing what SHE want's me to do. After Jim tossed me off his computer and out of his house a couple months ago, I found my own voice and had a mid life- crisis and then got married. My mid life crisis began with a check up at the doctors office. I felt like I was fine, and I was, but then suddenly realized the doctor is some punk kid. I could no longer call him Dr. Silverstien. Instead I said 'Do you know a damn thing about systemic yeast, Sean?' I was going to join a gym but I thought, 'look at hamsters, THEY exercise all the time! is that how I want my body to look?' My therapist said 'reality is the leading cause of stress, amongst those in touch with it.' I was depressed with my mid-life crisis, but I started dating because I was too lazy to commit suicide. I'm partial to the grocery store because it's one of the few places on earth where I can afford to buy pretty much any item I want. My sisters kid's won't eat anything that hasn't danced on tv My therapist said I should think like pollyanna and put a positive spin on adversity, so, I was walking down the aisle thinking, 'How lucky we are that we can reach our genitals instead of that spot on our back'. I eat to many tv dinners, I've gotten to the point where every time I see aluminum foil I start to salivate. Television has proved that people will look at anything rather than each other. But thats how I met my husband, tv, dial-a-psychic. But thats another story. Goodnight Annie.
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Date: Sat, Dec 6, 1997 at 01:17:07 (EST)
Poster: trash talking mama
Email: bb
To: buzzbee
Subject: naughty and nice (Re: ?)
Message:
Maybe just note the posts that are naughty instead of labeling them all.
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Date: Sat, Dec 6, 1997 at 10:34:25 (EST)
Poster: Gerbal Dating Service
Email:
To: anonomousie
Subject: Re: Aerily Dear (Re: ?)
Message:
Well, Annie, you are lucky you lived with him when he was in the ashram. He was wilder later. If you had ever called his bluff right after a shower, and said 'come on, right now', you would have been in for a bit of a wait. I know 99 percent of the men give the other 1 percent a bad name, but if men knew how to make love they wouldn't have to pay for it. Dr Ruth says we women should tell our lovers how to make love to us, but Jim would go nuts if I told him how to drive! If they can put a man on the moon, why can't they put MOST of them there? God made man, then said, 'I can do better than that' and created women. He would accost me around the house trying to have an affair with me which I always refused because I want to see the ring. It's that ole 'why buy the cow when you get the milk for free' logic. He would say things like; 'what is a four letter word that ends with a K and means intercourse?' and I said 'talk' 'what goes in pink and stiff and comes out soft and squishy? and I said 'chewing gum' he came up when I was ironing and said; 'What does a man have in his pocket that's about six inches long, has a head on it, and women love it so much they often blow it?' and I said 'money!' He would get all frustrated. In the kitchen he said; 'What is long and hard and contains seamen?' and I said 'a submarine!' 'Where do women have the curliest hair?' and I said 'Africa!' 'what's big and hairy and sticks out of a man's pajamas and is so big he can hang his hat on it?' and I said 'his head' he said 'what does a man have that get's bigger when you stroke it?' and I said 'his ego' and I said 'look stop this!' he said 'what is wrong with you?' I said 'look, I don't sleep with men who name thier dicks.' When I'm dating I look at the guy and wonder, 'is this the man I want my children to spend every other weekend with?' You have three kids, thats nice, the rule of thumb is; never have more children than car windows. The phrase 'working mother' is redundant. MY mother just wants me to be happy--doing what SHE want's me to do. After Jim tossed me off his computer and out of his house a couple months ago, I found my own voice and had a mid life- crisis and then got married. My mid life crisis began with a check up at the doctors office. I felt like I was fine, and I was, but then suddenly realized the doctor is some punk kid. I could no longer call him Dr. Silverstien. Instead I said 'Do you know a damn thing about systemic yeast, Sean?' I was going to join a gym but I thought, 'look at hamsters, THEY exercise all the time! is that how I want my body to look?' My therapist said 'reality is the leading cause of stress, amongst those in touch with it.' I was depressed with my mid-life crisis, but I started dating because I was too lazy to commit suicide. I'm partial to the grocery store because it's one of the few places on earth where I can afford to buy pretty much any item I want. My sisters kid's won't eat anything that hasn't danced on tv My therapist said I should think like pollyanna and put a positive spin on adversity, so, I was walking down the aisle thinking, 'How lucky we are that we can reach our genitals instead of that spot on our back'. I eat to many tv dinners, I've gotten to the point where every time I see aluminum foil I start to salivate. Television has proved that people will look at anything rather than each other. But thats how I met my husband, tv, dial-a-psychic. But thats another story. Goodnight Annie. Mili!!! I think we've found a perfect match and mate for you - anonomousie. For every hisn, there's a hern!!! You can fill socks with sarcastic shit and beat the shit out of each other in pefect bliss. Except I think that anonomousie with her great sence of humor will be good for you!
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Date: Sat, Dec 6, 1997 at 11:03:55 (EST)
Poster: Mili
Email:
To: Gerbal Dating Service
Subject: Re: Aerily Dear (Re: ?)
Message:
Well, Annie, you are lucky you lived with him when he was in the ashram. He was wilder later. If you had ever called his bluff right after a shower, and said 'come on, right now', you would have been in for a bit of a wait. I know 99 percent of the men give the other 1 percent a bad name, but if men knew how to make love they wouldn't have to pay for it. Dr Ruth says we women should tell our lovers how to make love to us, but Jim would go nuts if I told him how to drive! If they can put a man on the moon, why can't they put MOST of them there? God made man, then said, 'I can do better than that' and created women. He would accost me around the house trying to have an affair with me which I always refused because I want to see the ring. It's that ole 'why buy the cow when you get the milk for free' logic. He would say things like; 'what is a four letter word that ends with a K and means intercourse?' and I said 'talk' 'what goes in pink and stiff and comes out soft and squishy? and I said 'chewing gum' he came up when I was ironing and said; 'What does a man have in his pocket that's about six inches long, has a head on it, and women love it so much they often blow it?' and I said 'money!' He would get all frustrated. In the kitchen he said; 'What is long and hard and contains seamen?' and I said 'a submarine!' 'Where do women have the curliest hair?' and I said 'Africa!' 'what's big and hairy and sticks out of a man's pajamas and is so big he can hang his hat on it?' and I said 'his head' he said 'what does a man have that get's bigger when you stroke it?' and I said 'his ego' and I said 'look stop this!' he said 'what is wrong with you?' I said 'look, I don't sleep with men who name thier dicks.' When I'm dating I look at the guy and wonder, 'is this the man I want my children to spend every other weekend with?' You have three kids, thats nice, the rule of thumb is; never have more children than car windows. The phrase 'working mother' is redundant. MY mother just wants me to be happy--doing what SHE want's me to do. After Jim tossed me off his computer and out of his house a couple months ago, I found my own voice and had a mid life- crisis and then got married. My mid life crisis began with a check up at the doctors office. I felt like I was fine, and I was, but then suddenly realized the doctor is some punk kid. I could no longer call him Dr. Silverstien. Instead I said 'Do you know a damn thing about systemic yeast, Sean?' I was going to join a gym but I thought, 'look at hamsters, THEY exercise all the time! is that how I want my body to look?' My therapist said 'reality is the leading cause of stress, amongst those in touch with it.' I was depressed with my mid-life crisis, but I started dating because I was too lazy to commit suicide. I'm partial to the grocery store because it's one of the few places on earth where I can afford to buy pretty much any item I want. My sisters kid's won't eat anything that hasn't danced on tv My therapist said I should think like pollyanna and put a positive spin on adversity, so, I was walking down the aisle thinking, 'How lucky we are that we can reach our genitals instead of that spot on our back'. I eat to many tv dinners, I've gotten to the point where every time I see aluminum foil I start to salivate. Television has proved that people will look at anything rather than each other. But thats how I met my husband, tv, dial-a-psychic. But thats another story. Goodnight Annie. Mili!!! I think we've found a perfect match and mate for you - anonomousie. For every hisn, there's a hern!!! You can fill socks with sarcastic shit and beat the shit out of each other in pefect bliss. Except I think that anonomousie with her great sence of humor will be good for you! Yeah, I agree. Too bad she is already married. This happens to me every time - my karma, I guess. - Mili
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Date: Sat, Dec 6, 1997 at 11:48:15 (EST)
Poster: Mili
Email:
To: Gerbal Dating Service
Subject: Re: Aerily Dear (Re: ?)
Message:
That was another dear old friend of mine, and not Annie, who wrote that, by the way. - Mili
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Date: Sat, Dec 6, 1997 at 12:14:21 (EST)
Poster: Katie
Email: petkat@mail.trib.net
To: anonomousie
Subject: Anonomousie revealed (Re: ?)
Message:
Well, someone asked me my opinion about sister anonomousie's identity and here's my best guess (in ascending order of probability): 1. Bill Burke's twin sister 2. Bill Burke's evil twin 3. Bill Burke's anima 4. Bill Burke By the way, Bill, I hope you didn't consider that post to be tasteful!
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Date: Sat, Dec 6, 1997 at 12:26:39 (EST)
Poster: Mili
Email:
To: Katie
Subject: Re: Anonomousie revealed (Re: ?)
Message:
Ha, Ha, Ha!!! I can almost imagine Bill's expression as he reads this! No, she is not related to Bill Burke in any way. But, I think it's just best to accept her for what she presents herself to be for the moment. - Mili
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Date: Sat, Dec 6, 1997 at 12:31:11 (EST)
Poster: Katie
Email:
To: Mili
Subject: Re: Anonomousie revealed (Re: ?)
Message:
Ha, Ha, Ha!!! I can almost imagine Bill's expression as he reads this! No, she is not related to Bill Burke in any way. But, I think it's just best to accept her for what she presents herself to be for the moment. - Mili Mili - you sure fooled me! I thought after all Bill's talk about watching the comedy hall of fame the other night, it was surely him. I hope Bill is not insulted, although perhaps he'll think it's a compliment.
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Date: Sat, Dec 6, 1997 at 13:13:24 (EST)
Poster: Bobby
Email:
To: Mike
Subject: Re: Love One Another (Re: ?)
Message:

I can tell you all that I value each and everyone of one of you... premie/ex-premie alike because as I posted below... for such a long time I felt like the last premie. Like the party was over and I woke up from Nectar Drunk and looked around and the place had cleared out. It felt almost as intense as your parents fighting during a holiday and clearing out to the shock of the rest of the family members.

I feel the same as you in ways Mike. I definitely had some sublime experiences of Sangha (holy community with premies). For some reason, maybe more global than personal reason, the Maharaji Sangha as I knew it has dispersed.


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Date: Sat, Dec 6, 1997 at 15:34:32 (EST)
Poster: Mike
Email: bigguy32@juno.com
To: Bobby
Subject: Re: Love One Another (Re: ?)
Message:

I can tell you all that I value each and everyone of one of you... premie/ex-premie alike because as I posted below... for such a long time I felt like the last premie. Like the party was over and I woke up from Nectar Drunk and looked around and the place had cleared out. It felt almost as intense as your parents fighting during a holiday and clearing out to the shock of the rest of the family members.

I feel the same as you in ways Mike. I definitely had some sublime experiences of Sangha (holy community with premies). For some reason, maybe more global than personal reason, the Maharaji Sangha as I knew it has dispersed.

Bobby - I don't think that the Sanga et al can disperse. At some point in my life... I realized that the Sanga is just as important as the Dharma and Buddha. I feel that my experience with the premies of the 70's and 80's and now some how wakes up that understanding even further. At different points in my evolution, each of these ingrediants will reverse themselves in different ways, in that the Buddha will become Mara (Illusion) and then Amara (Reality), Dharma will become Avidya (False Knowledge) and then Vidya (True Knowledge) and the Sanga will become Yaksa (Demons) and then Premies (Angels :)) before they're all transended and I become innocent of the entire path. This reversal will be in the progress of my preceptions as I evolve toward the Tathagata (The One thus gone to the other shore) or Mansaroveranad (The Sea of Love and Mercy). All these things are part Lila (Love Play) and part Maya. Both will go through the five stage cycle of my evolution (i.e., Creating a situation, sustaining it, changing/destroying it, learning/transending and finally becoming innocent of it). For example: where Mili is right now with his experience of Guru Maharaji is neither higher or lower than anyone else on their paths. Mili is at the perfect point in his life to experience only what he needs to evolve to whatever is next for him until he realizes his highest state as much as I am perfectly where I should be to evolve to my next step... whatever that may be. By the way Mili, your devotion to Guru Maharaji is very important to all of us and we/I admire it deeply.
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Date: Mon, Dec 8, 1997 at 13:06:11 (EST)
Poster: JW
Email:
To: Annie
Subject: Re: My 'Respond To Joe' File (Re: ?)
Message:
Joe: I am emailing to you the entirety of those posts from you which I have saved. The reason I'm sending it to you by email is that I am honestly not sure which points or questions you wish me to address; Also, I raised a point in my most recent post which you did not respond to directly; which is that I wonder if you really care what I think or feel about this stuff. I have the impression at times that you have read my posts hastily, misread, or skipped over things. My post here, written on November 27, under the subject RE:Confessions of an Ex Instructor, sums up my point of view; and how can I address things which I just cannot relate to because they are 180 degrees opposite of my own experiences? Except to say, jeez, what a weird life, and I guess we each have to figure it out for ourselves. Believe me, I have heard all of the bad news about Maharaji before. It simply is not my own first hand experience of him, and I'm trying to stay away from rumors and speculations and premie concepts and stick to what I know, for myself, now. You are correct that I find much in these discussions interesting, some humorous, some idiotic, some thought-provoking. If you wish me to respond to all your posts, without ignoring or missing anything, I would be grateful if you would distill them just a bit for me, and either email it back to me or post it here. I will do my best, if it matters to you that I respond, but ask that if we both go to so much trouble that you will read carefully and think about what I write, rather than rush to invalidate it or make fun of me. [I am one of those sensitive people.] Annie: I'm sorry if I wasn't clear. I really couldn't care less whether you respond to my posts or not. But I did object when you discounted, as I think you do again in your current post, as unrelatable, or not serving any purpose, my explanation of my thoughts and experiences. [And now you have added the rather insulting "what a weird life" comment. Not very helpful for the kind of discussion you profess to want.] I really don't think that is very fair, especially after I responded to your posts with what I considered to be thoughtful explanations of my opinions and experiences, which I have every right to believe are every bit as valid as yours. In fact, I saw your response as a very rapid and summary "rush to invalidate," which is something you are now accusing me of, but of course with no actual proof or analysis to back up what you said. And as I said before, I have never attempted to judge or comment on your own subjective experience of Maharaji or anything else. I only responded when you attacked mine and said "no one got hurt' and "it was all a personal choice for everyone," when you, not being everyone and certainly not being me, can't possibily know that one way or the other. Concerning the Maharaji "bad stuff" that you have heard before and therefore are not interested in, please be aware that not all of us have heard it all and we find it reflective of who or what Mahraji is and professes to be. There are certain topics raised on this site that aren't of much interest to be either. Such is the nature of free speech. I do use sarcasm sometimes when I write, especially if I think something someone is saying is lacking in much logic, but that's just how I am. Judging from your post about Jim, however, it seems like you do the same thing. I have no idea what you really think about your "stuff." But I will consider, and have considered, what you write at face value. Just because I might disagree with you, it doesn't mean that I haven't thought about what you said. No, I really don't care what you think or feel about this stuff. You have the right to your personal feelings and thoughts just like anyone else. But if you attack someone else's feelings and thoughts, you ought to be prepared to be responded to in kind. Joe
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Date: Fri, Dec 5, 1997 at 14:36:18 (EST)
Poster: JW
Email: The Globe
To: Everyone
Subject: Maharaji's Mistress
Message:
With all we have heard about Maharaji having a mistress in all locations other than Malibu, where Marolyn doesn't allow her to enter, I was interested in how widespread among the premies this is known. And if it is known, how do the premies rationalize it? Also, the posting I read said that Maharaji's mistress is also his photographer and that she is married to a premie, (Michael Wood? who does videos for him? ). How in the hell could this guy rationalize THAT? Again, is this all part of selfless, devotional love? Yeeeech. And surely his kids MUST know about this. Is that why Hansi isn't around? How can Daya sing those loving songs to him knowing that he is cheating on her own mother? And by the way, does anyone ever see Marolyn at programs anymore? She used to be such a featured event at the programs. Just seeing the incredible clothes she and Raja Ji's wife used to wear were events in and of themselves. This at least let us know where some of our hard-earned money we turned over to him was going. Does anyone have any comments on these points? JW
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Date: Fri, Dec 5, 1997 at 17:47:04 (EST)
Poster: Mr Ex
Email:
To: JW
Subject: Re: Maharaji's Mistress
Message:
This what premies call a 'mind blowing' thing. Poor guys, poor me .... I swallowed that for years! I think it's the same kind of situation where children have their parents abusing them : they suffer on the psychological level, they find every possible explanation, they might lose their faculties and sanity, and they keep loving their parents in most of the cases. Sometimes they understand and they leave as soon as possible. It's very likely what Hansi is doing. He might even sue his father, or join groups of ex-premies wanting to do that! This is the best reaction that you can have in a case like that. There are plenty of books about abused children, pupils, etc We are in the same kind of situation ...
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Date: Fri, Dec 5, 1997 at 17:50:48 (EST)
Poster: Mr Ex
Email:
To: JW
Subject: Re: Maharaji's Mistress & Money (Re: Maharaji's Mistress)
Message:
here is an other kind of answer : ******************************************* Maharaji, Elan Vital, and Money Maharaji's organization, Elan Vital Incorporated. (EVI) is registered as a charity in both the United States and United Kingdom. In most other countries, EVI is registered as a non-profit organization. Many kinds of financial activities take place under the auspices of EVI. Many of them are permitted by US tax regulations. Some are not. People who are interested in Maharaji and 'his' knowledge may want to know something about these financial activities, details of which are never made public. What follows is information that most of the people who are involved in running EVI are aware of, although I have kept details confidential for legal reasons and to protect some persons (I consider them as victims) involved in these activities. I invite you to make your own analysis and come to your own conclusions about this information. EVI organizes conferences and 'Knowledge' sessions, publishes propagation materials and supports M.'s tours. However, EVI is also used as a network of resources to collect funds for Maharaji by various means. Instructors and EVI employees are responsible for these activities, with Yorum Weisz being one of the main persons responsible. Maharaji's private expenses are considerable - he spends an average of $10,000 (US) per day for his (and his family's) personal use. This does NOT include conference expenses, which are paid for by EVI, or the purchase of houses, cars, and furnishings for his homes, which are paid for by "gifts" requested through EVI's network of resources. Thus the amount of money given to (and spent by) Maharaji personally is huge - hundreds of thousands of dollars per year. I don't have anything in particular against that: many people are very rich and spend daily a lot more than you and me. What is wrong is the way Maharaji and his family use EV Inc. and people devoted to spirituality for their personal gain. EVI is used to organize and run profit-making companies through various systems. Some of the money made by these companies has been given and is still given directly to Maharaji. This is a violation of EVI's charity status (and financial regulations in any country, for these private companies). There are several private companies which give some of their profits to Maharaji. In the US, Amtext Inc. and NSA are the main companies used for this purpose. They have branches in some other countries, and there are other companies of this type in both the US and other countries. Premies who want to do 'service' are strongly advised (by EVI's officials) to work for these companies, either for free or for very low wages. These companies make millions of dollars per year in profits. The managers of these companies are close 'friends' of Maharaji, and give him regular huge donations from these profits. Donations made to the Elan Vital Foundation are also a source of large amounts of money for Maharaji's use. EVI's funds are also used to build and maintain Maharaji's private residences. Lands bought by EVI are in fact actually owned by Maharaji and his family. In addition to this, cash given to EVI in various countries is illegally smuggled into the US for Maharaji's private use. Those who believe that Elan Vital is a legal charity and that Maharaji gives spiritual 'knowledge' for free should consider this information. If you would like to know more about this, just ask some of the premies you know what they have been asked to do in many of the "service" meetings.
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Date: Fri, Dec 5, 1997 at 17:51:00 (EST)
Poster: Mr Ex
Email:
To: JW
Subject: Re: Maharaji's Mistress & Money (Re: Maharaji's Mistress)
Message:
here is an other kind of answer : ******************************************* Maharaji, Elan Vital, and Money Maharaji's organization, Elan Vital Incorporated. (EVI) is registered as a charity in both the United States and United Kingdom. In most other countries, EVI is registered as a non-profit organization. Many kinds of financial activities take place under the auspices of EVI. Many of them are permitted by US tax regulations. Some are not. People who are interested in Maharaji and 'his' knowledge may want to know something about these financial activities, details of which are never made public. What follows is information that most of the people who are involved in running EVI are aware of, although I have kept details confidential for legal reasons and to protect some persons (I consider them as victims) involved in these activities. I invite you to make your own analysis and come to your own conclusions about this information. EVI organizes conferences and 'Knowledge' sessions, publishes propagation materials and supports M.'s tours. However, EVI is also used as a network of resources to collect funds for Maharaji by various means. Instructors and EVI employees are responsible for these activities, with Yorum Weisz being one of the main persons responsible. Maharaji's private expenses are considerable - he spends an average of $10,000 (US) per day for his (and his family's) personal use. This does NOT include conference expenses, which are paid for by EVI, or the purchase of houses, cars, and furnishings for his homes, which are paid for by "gifts" requested through EVI's network of resources. Thus the amount of money given to (and spent by) Maharaji personally is huge - hundreds of thousands of dollars per year. I don't have anything in particular against that: many people are very rich and spend daily a lot more than you and me. What is wrong is the way Maharaji and his family use EV Inc. and people devoted to spirituality for their personal gain. EVI is used to organize and run profit-making companies through various systems. Some of the money made by these companies has been given and is still given directly to Maharaji. This is a violation of EVI's charity status (and financial regulations in any country, for these private companies). There are several private companies which give some of their profits to Maharaji. In the US, Amtext Inc. and NSA are the main companies used for this purpose. They have branches in some other countries, and there are other companies of this type in both the US and other countries. Premies who want to do 'service' are strongly advised (by EVI's officials) to work for these companies, either for free or for very low wages. These companies make millions of dollars per year in profits. The managers of these companies are close 'friends' of Maharaji, and give him regular huge donations from these profits. Donations made to the Elan Vital Foundation are also a source of large amounts of money for Maharaji's use. EVI's funds are also used to build and maintain Maharaji's private residences. Lands bought by EVI are in fact actually owned by Maharaji and his family. In addition to this, cash given to EVI in various countries is illegally smuggled into the US for Maharaji's private use. Those who believe that Elan Vital is a legal charity and that Maharaji gives spiritual 'knowledge' for free should consider this information. If you would like to know more about this, just ask some of the premies you know what they have been asked to do in many of the "service" meetings.
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Date: Fri, Dec 5, 1997 at 19:00:16 (EST)
Poster: Mili
Email:
To: Mr Ex
Subject: Re: Maharaji's Mistress
Message:
This what premies call a 'mind blowing' thing. Poor guys, poor me .... I swallowed that for years! I think it's the same kind of situation where children have their parents abusing them : they suffer on the psychological level, they find every possible explanation, they might lose their faculties and sanity, and they keep loving their parents in most of the cases. Sometimes they understand and they leave as soon as possible. It's very likely what Hansi is doing. He might even sue his father, or join groups of ex-premies wanting to do that! This is the best reaction that you can have in a case like that. There are plenty of books about abused children, pupils, etc We are in the same kind of situation ... The only abuse I see is the one you are inflicting on yourselves. - Mili
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Date: Fri, Dec 5, 1997 at 20:54:51 (EST)
Poster: Mili
Email:
To: Mr Ex
Subject: Re: Maharaji's Mistress & Money (Re: Maharaji's Mistress)
Message:
You'll excuse me if I am (again) skeptical about the 10,000 $ a day personal expenditure figure, even though Mji has a rather large (extended) family. If his children go to the best colleges, the tuition fees would be pretty large. Also, does the sustenance of all the mahatmas and initiators, and photographers, etc. enter into this figure? And the travel costs for his world tours? You would have to be a little more specific. But, this is interesting for sure, though you certainly have taken pains to formulate it in such a way as to give the worst possible impression to the casual reader. In any case, you have to admit that this guy is doing pretty good for someone who once (jokingly) said that oil comes from long-dead dinosaurs.
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Date: Fri, Dec 5, 1997 at 21:02:10 (EST)
Poster: Deena T
Email: deena@cableregina.com
To: Mr. Ex
Subject: Re: Maharaji's Mistress & Money (Re: Maharaji's Mistress)
Message:
I want to thank you Mr. Ex for sharing the financial picture. I for one, feel you are doing an incredible service and in doing so, putting yourself at risk. I thank you from the bottom of my heart.
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Date: Fri, Dec 5, 1997 at 21:11:02 (EST)
Poster: Mili
Email:
To: Deena T
Subject: Re: Maharaji's Mistress & Money (Re: Maharaji's Mistress)
Message:
I want to thank you Mr. Ex for sharing the financial picture. I for one, feel you are doing an incredible service and in doing so, putting yourself at risk. I thank you from the bottom of my heart. Come on, Deena, cut out the 'risk' crap. If he is stating true facts, there is no risk involved. On the other hand, if he is distorting the picture, it IS a big risk, and it won't be too cool for his blood pressure. (Meditate, Mr Ex-mahatma, meditate!)
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Date: Sat, Dec 6, 1997 at 05:25:17 (EST)
Poster: Mr Ex
Email:
To: Mili
Subject: Re: Maharaji's Mistress & Money (Re: Maharaji's Mistress)
Message:
I want to thank you Mr. Ex for sharing the financial picture. I for one, feel you are doing an incredible service and in doing so, putting yourself at risk. I thank you from the bottom of my heart. Come on, Deena, cut out the 'risk' crap. If he is stating true facts, there is no risk involved. On the other hand, if he is distorting the picture, it IS a big risk, and it won't be too cool for his blood pressure. (Meditate, Mr Ex-mahatma, meditate!) What do you mean by ‘big risk’ ? ? ? ? Do you think BigM &/or EV Inc. are going to sue me ? I would love that ! Of course I have everything necessary to back up what I said. An action in court is not an Internet chat. Everything I mentioned can be checked. Me (and a lot of people) have been abused. But I can tell you one thing : PPR or EV are not going to sue anybody, that’s why I’m very relaxed. Some persons are anxious I tell you : the president of EV Inc. (Linda), PPR’s premie lawyers, his family, and probably himself. Because they might have trouble asking some official’s questions. Running a charity involves certain things. US tax people don’t like too much organizations using a charity status to make private profits. I hope they will thoroughly check this charity business. I think anybody should hope that too. The risks are for these guys : jail, huge penalties, loss of all their properties, in the US and abroad. Risks are very big, I agree. My blood pressure is fine, and I’m not living a stressed life. I have a happy life, a nice girlfriend, a house in the countryside, my job is doing well and I’m making a decent living. And I’ll be even more relaxed when officials will be after PPR & his businesses. I do practice meditation, without the lord of the universes’s grace and it’s absolutely fine and great. It took me some courage and to go through a lot of anxiety, but I discovered that PPR has nothing to do with my inner experience (or anybody’s as a matter of fact). He is just a deceitful meditation teacher, abusing naive people like you and me, using Indian techniques he inherited and that he does not fully understand himself. I red most of the documents about Radhasoami available on Dr Lane’s web-site. He recalls the story of one of the satgurus who finally resigned from his satguruship, after being convinced by some people that he was not what he thought he was. He went to the true guru and became his disciple. Nice story. By the way : I made a 150 pages Word file out of all theses pages about Radhasoami tradition. It’s a 500 Ko zipped file. If anybody wants it, I can email it. That’s all for today.
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Date: Sat, Dec 6, 1997 at 05:54:28 (EST)
Poster: Mili
Email:
To: Mr Ex
Subject: Re: Maharaji's Mistress & Money (Re: Maharaji's Mistress)
Message:
I want to thank you Mr. Ex for sharing the financial picture. I for one, feel you are doing an incredible service and in doing so, putting yourself at risk. I thank you from the bottom of my heart. Come on, Deena, cut out the 'risk' crap. If he is stating true facts, there is no risk involved. On the other hand, if he is distorting the picture, it IS a big risk, and it won't be too cool for his blood pressure. (Meditate, Mr Ex-mahatma, meditate!) What do you mean by ‘big risk’ ? ? ? ? Do you think BigM &/or EV Inc. are going to sue me ? I would love that ! Of course I have everything necessary to back up what I said. An action in court is not an Internet chat. Everything I mentioned can be checked. Me (and a lot of people) have been abused. But I can tell you one thing : PPR or EV are not going to sue anybody, that’s why I’m very relaxed. Some persons are anxious I tell you : the president of EV Inc. (Linda), PPR’s premie lawyers, his family, and probably himself. Because they might have trouble asking some official’s questions. Running a charity involves certain things. US tax people don’t like too much organizations using a charity status to make private profits. I hope they will thoroughly check this charity business. I think anybody should hope that too. The risks are for these guys : jail, huge penalties, loss of all their properties, in the US and abroad. Risks are very big, I agree. My blood pressure is fine, and I’m not living a stressed life. I have a happy life, a nice girlfriend, a house in the countryside, my job is doing well and I’m making a decent living. And I’ll be even more relaxed when officials will be after PPR & his businesses. I do practice meditation, without the lord of the universes’s grace and it’s absolutely fine and great. It took me some courage and to go through a lot of anxiety, but I discovered that PPR has nothing to do with my inner experience (or anybody’s as a matter of fact). He is just a deceitful meditation teacher, abusing naive people like you and me, using Indian techniques he inherited and that he does not fully understand himself. I red most of the documents about Radhasoami available on Dr Lane’s web-site. He recalls the story of one of the satgurus who finally resigned from his satguruship, after being convinced by some people that he was not what he thought he was. He went to the true guru and became his disciple. Nice story. By the way : I made a 150 pages Word file out of all theses pages about Radhasoami tradition. It’s a 500 Ko zipped file. If anybody wants it, I can email it. That’s all for today. Well, if everything is so cool as you say it is, why don't you use your real name and E-mail here, like David Lane does on his site?
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Date: Sat, Dec 6, 1997 at 05:59:51 (EST)
Poster: Mili
Email:
To: Mr Ex
Subject: Re: Maharaji's Mistress & Money (Re: Maharaji's Mistress)
Message:
BTW, 10 000 smackers a day for personal expenses - isn't that stretching it a little too far? What could anybody spend that kind of money on at all? Even Eddie Murphy had a hard time doing it in that movie.
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Date: Mon, Dec 8, 1997 at 09:54:18 (EST)
Poster: Mr Ex
Email:
To: JW
Subject: Re: Maharaji's Mistress
Message:
With all we have heard about Maharaji having a mistress in all locations other than Malibu, where Marolyn doesn't allow her to enter, I was interested in how widespread among the premies this is known. And if it is known, how do the premies rationalize it? Also, the posting I read said that Maharaji's mistress is also his photographer and that she is married to a premie, (Michael Wood? who does videos for him? ). How in the hell could this guy rationalize THAT? Again, is this all part of selfless, devotional love? Yeeeech. And surely his kids MUST know about this. Is that why Hansi isn't around? How can Daya sing those loving songs to him knowing that he is cheating on her own mother? And by the way, does anyone ever see Marolyn at programs anymore? She used to be such a featured event at the programs. Just seeing the incredible clothes she and Raja Ji's wife used to wear were events in and of themselves. This at least let us know where some of our hard-earned money we turned over to him was going. Does anyone have any comments on these points? JW PPR holds him by the balls ! You know what ? M. Wood is instructor & the president/manager of Dunrite productions. Dunrite (private company) produces the videos for EV Inc. Michael is also all the time on tour with PPR : beautiful rewarding experience. I give you this, you give me your wife. You keep your mouth shut. Dunrite is one of PPR’s investments. There are plenty of situations like that ‘in this world’ ! Adult’s abuse ?
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Date: Mon, Dec 8, 1997 at 11:32:09 (EST)
Poster: Brian
Email:
To: Mr Ex
Subject: Re: Maharaji's Mistress
Message:
Also, the posting I read said that Maharaji's mistress is also his photographer and that she is married to a premie, (Michael Wood? who does videos for him? ). How in the hell could this guy rationalize THAT? PPR holds him by the balls! Sounds like MJ only needs to use tweezers to do it...
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Date: Mon, Dec 8, 1997 at 12:11:48 (EST)
Poster: JW
Email:
To: Mr Ex
Subject: Re: Maharaji's Mistress & Money (Re: Maharaji's Mistress)
Message:
Thanks from me, too. By the way, the illegal fundraising (using a non-profit to raise millions of dollars for an individual) has been going on for many years. Back in the late 70s and early 80s, millions were raised, in cash, through DLM, all or most of which were funnelled directly into his personal Boeing 707 plane project. I recall helping count the stacks and stacks cash myself and I also recall that the money had to be deposited in amounts less than $10,000 to avoid treasury dept. reporting. This was especially important in Miami, because the banks were very sensitive to money laundering by the drug trade. So, everything you're saying is in line with what I've seen myself. I'm just surprised M hasn't cleaned up his finances better than he apparently has. Joe
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Date: Fri, Dec 5, 1997 at 10:01:24 (EST)
Poster: Mike
Email: bigguy32@juno.com
To: Everyone
Subject: The Nine Techniques
Message:
Ok, I've solved for X... I've come to the conclusion that since my Guru Maharaji is within me and everybody. And since, Brahmanand Maharaj said that the Gita is the teacher and not I. I would only be a transport for this Knowledge from the Book to the Internet. It would still be in written form and it would not be my Knowledge as the Originator of it. Since Brahmanand Maharag has been dead for a few hundred years... it'll be hard for me to ask him for his permission to reprint his information. I will type it up and submitt it to this web site. Enjoy, Mike
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Date: Fri, Dec 5, 1997 at 10:17:22 (EST)
Poster: Bobby
Email:
To: Mike
Subject: Re: The Nine Techniques
Message:
Thanks Mike. I'm looking forward to your post. From what you said, it doesn't sound like Brahmanad Maharaji thought he was the originator either. It seems to me that throughout history many have merged with God awareness. From this awareness they may indeed say "I and my father are one" or "There is no one here but God". Or "There is no one here but us chickens".
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Date: Fri, Dec 5, 1997 at 01:50:28 (EST)
Poster: Deena
Email: deena@cableregina.com
To: Everyone
Subject: Love
Message:
Thought for the day. Human love is more of a challenge than divine love. Perhaps that is how and why divine love was created.
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Date: Fri, Dec 5, 1997 at 01:52:48 (EST)
Poster: Above post is tasteful
Email: deena@cableregina.com
To: everyone
Subject: Re: Love
Message:
Thought for the day. Human love is more of a challenge than divine love. Perhaps that is how and why divine love was created. Meant to use the word invented not created.
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Date: Fri, Dec 5, 1997 at 07:13:30 (EST)
Poster: Bobby
Email:
To: Deena
Subject: Re: Love
Message:
I think Love is poorly understood in our culture. I don't know what you mean by "Divine Love", or what you mean by "challenge", or even what you mean by "Human Love" but I believe, rather I know there are sublime states of Love to experience that I would term "Love" or "Spiritual Love" or even "Divine Love". To me divine love is a sacred experience. Actually I think Human Love is a sacred experience as well. I don't think that I ever experienced this Love to Maharaji per se. I may have experienced it around him or in Satsang. Certainly in meditation. I've been blessed with many forms of human love. Love for a particular person, love for family, love for friends, sometimes even love for folks on the street. I've been blessed with experiences of Divine Love. Some of these most sublime states I've experienced while hanging with folks in state mental institutions or meditation or running in the woods. I'm not sure what the difference here is between human and divine. There are degrees of experience. There are three different types of Love in the Greek. Eros, philetos and agape. Eros is the erotic love, the love celebrated as the high experience in our culture. Filios is brotherly (sisterly) love. Agape is the bliss, the divine love.
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Date: Fri, Dec 5, 1997 at 10:51:04 (EST)
Poster: Deena Tastful
Email: ddena@cableregina.com
To: Bobby
Subject: Re: Love
Message:
I quess what I was referring to is that in most cultures and traditions 'Agape is the blis, the divine love' that you described Bobby is held as holy in comparison to carnal or worldly love. If you love Jesus and devote your life by taking an oath of celibacy that is treated as a sacred demonstration of love. This goes for all the religions that have monks etc. And love of God is first and necessary to love man etc. You know what I'm talking about I'm sure. In Maharaji's world, he speaks of human love as less, though he loves his children, than love of his master. He constantly speaks of how his family want him to be with them but he tells them of his priority which is to serve his master and bring Knowledge to the world. Last night it occured to me that loving God or Guru is much easier than loving a person. Afterall, loving flesh and bone is not comparable to loving a feeling. God feeling doesn't have human frailties and quirks. It's supposedly perfect love. That's what I'm meaning. When I loved Maharaji it was simple and sublime. Loving my husband or child is a challenge because it is necessary to feel all the emotions that cause pain because of attachment. Detachment is recommended to protect the devotee from being eaten up by this world. But that is simple with meditation. Maharaji always says that it's not easy this path of devotion. I just realized it is much harder to have this human love he frequently mocks as less than divine love. Perhaps that is why he has personal problems that many ex-premies have come forth to reveal on this forum.
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Date: Fri, Dec 5, 1997 at 12:16:57 (EST)
Poster: David Simpkiss
Email:
To: Deena Tastful
Subject: Re: Love
Message:
He doesn't need his family arounf him when he's taking his mistress with him. Personally, I think that it's indicative of all the bull shit which he's tried to make people believe. How many families were wrecked by this divine love and detatchment crap. How many lives have been fucked up by listening to a master who pretended he was God. To all those premies who gave up relationships for the sake of the master, he should apologise. I know of premies that Maharaji gave the specific instruction to cut their relationship with some girl or guy. Who the fuck is he to tell people how to think and feel and organise their personal lives!? Man, he's damaged a lot of people. I know some of them. So much for his divine love. (This anger is not directed at YOU Deena,) David.
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Date: Fri, Dec 5, 1997 at 12:43:13 (EST)
Poster: JW
Email:
To: David Simpkiss
Subject: Re: Love
Message:
He doesn't need his family arounf him when he's taking his mistress with him. Personally, I think that it's indicative of all the bull shit which he's tried to make people believe. How many families were wrecked by this divine love and detatchment crap. How many lives have been fucked up by listening to a master who pretended he was God. To all those premies who gave up relationships for the sake of the master, he should apologise. I know of premies that Maharaji gave the specific instruction to cut their relationship with some girl or guy. Who the fuck is he to tell people how to think and feel and organise their personal lives!? Man, he's damaged a lot of people. I know some of them. So much for his divine love. (This anger is not directed at YOU Deena,) David. I couldn't agree more. That so-called "devotion" we were supposed to pursue as premies was often destructive of the most valuable "loves" in many of our lives. Like some of the loves Bobby was talking about, family, friends, children. That's one of my biggest regrets abou the cult. But under the subject of "love," I think one of the most destructive things that came from Maharaji's cult was this bullshit about "surrender" and that one can only experience "love" by giving it. In other words, you expect or require nothing in return. In my experience this Maharaji-theory is both stupid and destructive. It makes you vulnerable to all kinds of abuse. True love, in my experience, is quality that is between equals. And it took me some time after I left the cult to get that crap out of my head -- the results were a few fairly "one-way" unhealthy, personal relationships. I also agree with Deena that "divine love" or "love or the master" or whatever, is easier because it is not really "personal." Most premies didn't know Maharaji as a person whatsoever. They only experienced him in the most controlled of circumstances at programs and in darshan lines. So, it was easy to believe and pin on "him" all the fantasies and personal concepts and to "love" that, instead of the reality. I know this was the case for me, and it took some time after I left to even see that. It can be very insidious and deceptive. So, when premies say they "love" M, but have had almost no personal involvement with him, I strongly believe that is not "love" of him, it's really not "love" or at least it's not love of "him." It's really love of a fantasy. Now, whether that's a good or a bad thing, I really can't say. For me, it was really bad. But I sometimes wonder that if that kind of illusion gets people through the night and makes them think they are happier than they would otherwise be, is that harmful or not? Maybe it's better than drinking or taking drugs. JW
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Date: Fri, Dec 5, 1997 at 13:43:40 (EST)
Poster: Deena Not Tasteful
Email: deena@cableregina.com
To: David Simpkiss
Subject: Re: Love
Message:
There is no doubt about it...he is such an asshole, isn't he? I knew your anger wasn't vented at me David, I'm glad you feel free to vent it with me.
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Date: Fri, Dec 5, 1997 at 13:49:40 (EST)
Poster: Deena T
Email: deena@cableregina.com
To: JW
Subject: Re: Love
Message:
Judging from my recovery from this I'd say the addiction to drugs and alcohol is crippling in a different way but this is still crippling. So I don't know...ex-premies have killed themselves because they couldn't live without the illusion. Others went crazy. Some suffer in silence. Others go through years of de-programming themselves to lead normal healthy lives again. I don't know.
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Date: Fri, Dec 5, 1997 at 16:37:58 (EST)
Poster: Mili
Email:
To: Deena T
Subject: Re: Love
Message:
Judging from my recovery from this I'd say the addiction to drugs and alcohol is crippling in a different way but this is still crippling. So I don't know...ex-premies have killed themselves because they couldn't live without the illusion. Others went crazy. Some suffer in silence. Others go through years of de-programming themselves to lead normal healthy lives again. I don't know. This is a good example of the underlying, hidden, assumptions that you base your 'reasoning' on: what is normal and healthy? I am a premie and I feel fine. I lead a completely normal life, I've had and have fulfilling relationships. I work, balance my checkbook and have amicable relationships with people. I feel optimistic about life. Variety is the spice of life and there should be no standard on 'being normal'. That really reeks of totalitarianism. Or, do you think just being a social security number is where it's at? BTW, how come it's always the ex-premies that supposedly kill themselves, and not the premies?
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Date: Sat, Dec 6, 1997 at 04:28:03 (EST)
Poster: Mili
Email:
To: Deena Tastful
Subject: Re: Love
Message:
Perhaps that is why he has personal problems that many ex-premies have come forth to reveal on this forum. Read that as: 'Perhaps that is why he PRESUMABLY has personal problems that many ex-premies have come forth to SPECULATE on this forum.' Gad, WHY are you people so intent on deluding yourself?
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Date: Thurs, Dec 4, 1997 at 22:50:41 (EST)
Poster: Mike
Email: bigguy32@juno.com
To: Everyone
Subject: Mustash and Gotee???
Message:
Ok class, Who put the mustash and gotee on Prempals class picture above the discussions of anything??? Line up... I want to see your fingers for magic marker or crayon stains. Sir David... earwax on your thumbs again... what's prempal going to think? Oh deena... drunk on nectar again!!! Shame on you! :)
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Date: Fri, Dec 5, 1997 at 14:48:07 (EST)
Poster: Sir Noddy of Toytown
Email: djulian@cix.compulink.co.uk
To: Mike
Subject: Re: Mustash and Gotee???
Message:
Wasn't me Sir, honest, it was Deena Sir.
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Date: Fri, Dec 5, 1997 at 15:35:18 (EST)
Poster: Hey Scott
Email: I hate clip art
To: Scott
Subject: Please get rid of that picture! (Re: Mustash and Gotee???)
Message:
Please! It takes a long time to load. It looks like Maharaji's face is melting and dripping down his chin - a disgusting effect, I might add. And the picture of an young Aryan white male lecturing a black man, an older man, and a woman of (convenientally) uncertain ethnicity is a bit too much, especially when viewed for the thousandth time.
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Date: Sat, Dec 6, 1997 at 10:08:15 (EST)
Poster: Airalee, give us one of your
Email: b
To: A
Subject: pictures for the top (Re: Mustash and Gotee???)
Message:
it is a shot I have seen enough as well. maybe a florida beach scene.
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Date: Thurs, Dec 4, 1997 at 22:41:03 (EST)
Poster: Bobby
Email:
To: Everyone
Subject: Christmas Greetings
Message:
Merry Christmas!
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Date: Fri, Dec 5, 1997 at 06:37:33 (EST)
Poster: Brian
Email:
To: Bobby
Subject: Re: Christmas Greetings
Message:
And to you to, Bobby. Thanks. BTW, looking at your Christmas page made me realize that we're approaching a point where cards join coal stoves in museums. Perhaps soon we'll just send email containing web page links to those on our personal list! Sheeesh... I'm too old for the past, and I'm getting too old for the future...
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Date: Sun, Dec 7, 1997 at 23:12:09 (EST)
Poster: b
Email: b
To: Bobby
Subject: Re: Christmas Greetings
Message:
thanks Bobby, we would probably all put up picture's of ourselves or fake fronts if we had your computer or know how. It's a great shot.
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Date: Thurs, Dec 4, 1997 at 21:23:33 (EST)
Poster: Mike
Email: bigguy32@juno.com
To: Everyone
Subject: Mahatma Satyanand a TMr???
Message:
Boy am I shocked..., I was browsing around and found Mahatma Satyanand working for the big M&M (Maharishi Mahesh Yogi). I called an old Governor friend of mine and had him describe Satyanand to me. He said that Satyanand just died a month or so ago however he described him to a tee! I asked if he'd had a chance to speak with him and he said that he'd taken and coordinated several courses with him. Wanted: Former Mahatmas that were former employees/devotees of Shri Hans Ji Maharaj. Must be able to jump from one master to another without getting a nose bleed. Must be willing to travel. Optional, criminal record may be overlooked in the right circumstances. Apply to the feet of the highest bidder. I also understand that Satyanand was selling techniques via the M&M's Organization. I guess after the Easter Bunny and Santa Claus disillusionment what's one mahatma :(
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Date: Thurs, Dec 4, 1997 at 22:24:48 (EST)
Poster: Sir David (to you)
Email:
To: Mike
Subject: Re: Mahatma Satyanand a TMr???
Message:
Come on now, this is going TOO FAR. Santa Clause IS real. I saw him at Toys R Us last Saturday.
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Date: Thurs, Dec 4, 1997 at 22:53:14 (EST)
Poster: Mike
Email: Iwantobeatoysruskid.com
To: Sir David (to you)
Subject: Re: Mahatma Satyanand a TMr???
Message:
Come on now, this is going TOO FAR. Santa Clause IS real. I saw him at Toys R Us last Saturday. Did he have a cute little Krishna Crown on???
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Date: Thurs, Dec 4, 1997 at 18:27:39 (EST)
Poster: bftb
Email:
To: Everyone
Subject: Divine&Worldly?Master&Manipulator?
Message:
Much information on this forum and it's host web site points to Maharaji's love of very worldly things.The opinion that he's a manipulator for his own ego gratification and material gain has been well stated.For the sake of what I'm going to ask here:let's assume that this information and these opinions are true. Is it possible to be all the things that he's accused of being and yet still be a 'genuine realized master' capable of dispensing the experience of knowledge at will in a way that non-masters can't? (of course to even consider this question we have to pretend/believe/know that such a thing as masters,students,and ultimate realization of 'knowledge' exists-but it's a question that I've asked myself and quite frankly I have no definitive answer)
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Date: Thurs, Dec 4, 1997 at 19:56:21 (EST)
Poster: JW
Email:
To: bftb
Subject: Re: Divine&Worldly?Master&Manipulator?
Message:
Much information on this forum and it's host web site points to Maharaji's love of very worldly things.The opinion that he's a manipulator for his own ego gratification and material gain has been well stated.For the sake of what I'm going to ask here:let's assume that this information and these opinions are true. Is it possible to be all the things that he's accused of being and yet still be a 'genuine realized master' capable of dispensing the experience of knowledge at will in a way that non-masters can't? (of course to even consider this question we have to pretend/believe/know that such a thing as masters,students,and ultimate realization of 'knowledge' exists-but it's a question that I've asked myself and quite frankly I have no definitive answer) For me, I believed that was true during the time I was a premie. I thoroughly believed the bullshit that Maharaji was a lotus and was "in the world but not of the world" and since he was so perfect and detached, that he could have all the best the world had to offer and not be affected by it, unlike the rest of us who get confused that material things might provide happiness, when they don't. I also believed that Maharaji was so perfect and so wonderful that the "best" the world had to offer in terms of material things, were just barely good enough for him. He had to have the very best and I wouldn't have wanted anything less. That's why I turned over all my money to him for 9 years, while I wore underwear with holes in them. So, I thought it was fine that M had a fleet of Rolls Royces (he had a fleet of up to 30 luxury cars at any one time), residences all over the world, closets full of $5000 suits, gold bathroom fixtures even in his motorhome, and his own private multi-million-dollar planes so that he would not be subjected to the terrible ordeal of travelling first class. So, that's what I believed. I guess anything is possible. Like that you could be amazingly greedy and still offer something valuable to people. But I think it shows where his priorities are. I know that if he had been willing to live a more modest lifestyle, for example, there would have been many millions of dollars more available to do what he says he is here to do, let people know about knowledge and make it available to the whole world. Instead, most of the money has gone to his lifestyle. I think that fact is a reasonable reflection of his priorities and the veracity of what he says he really is about.
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Date: Thurs, Dec 4, 1997 at 23:51:38 (EST)
Poster: beserk
Email: bburke@rocketmail.com
To: bftb
Subject: Radiating Grace (Re: Divine&Worldly?Master&Manipulator?)
Message:
For decades I have thought that Maharaji radiated grace. I felt in later years that maharaji might not even know that he does. And I felt that that was what kept him special even though he obviously was going through a midlife crisis after his mom died. But by the december 96 event, his words and previous words seemed to finally kill that view for me. Perhaps it was the power/god letting me have the gopi style life. Like jesus said, 'As you believe, so shall it be done unto you.' So as hard as is is to type this, but anyway, so say that radiating grace is one of the options the power has to work with. If it suited the power, radiating grace could show up anytime, anywhere, to support a moment. Whatever kind of moment or circumstance. Sort of like one of the powers' bag of tricks to steer the humans this way or that. (IF the people decided to respond to the thing.) I mean, look at hitler, maybe the power was wierded out by the chess move of the darkness, the japs, hitler,stalin, and so the white(axis) pawns could go any way because they have free will, so the power works overtime to help people play a role and backs them up by working inside hitlers head with thoughts that trip him up. He made only a couple really crucial mistakes. If the fog hadn't rolled in he might easily have pulled the thing off. There are plenty of folks who believe in 'intervention' as a ongoing reality of this place. I disagree with those that want to chop the power up into 'angels,mary,saints(that can hear our requests),bodyless busybodies,father,son,holy ghost. ect. But one single power, THAT I can deal with. And if they say friend, well, tonight I was feeling awfully good inside, and really, I don't need much more of a cosmology than that. For all he has done to accomplish something in this world, there is something he is doing wrong. One of the ways the power has to tell us that we are off is already built into the system. My wife has been reading history lately and she said consistently she sees that it is power and greed that wrote most of the history in the book. That those things somehow have a short leash and if you exceed it, you get corrupted in some way. Those aren't her words, but it's the gist. And you know, thats just the way it is. If huston smith said it's smart to know your location, well, knowing the parameters of sanity is good to know. So what is the safe orientation?
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Date: Fri, Dec 5, 1997 at 00:39:56 (EST)
Poster: David Simpkiss
Email: djulian@cix.compulink.co.uk
To: beserk
Subject: Re: Radiating Grace (Re: Divine&Worldly?Master&Manipulator?)
Message:
Good post and I certainly appreciate and relate to your comment that it is hard to write. It is hard, very hard to come to terms with M not being the supreme power in person, after all we've been through. I was angry with God for a while because I thought it was a low trick for him to allow me to believe that he was manifested as Guru Maharaj Ji. Sometimes I still am angry with God. For sure, if the English Channel hadn't fogged over for a couple of weeks, I'd be speaking German now! You know I can't answer your question because I now realise I'm as much in the dark as I ever was. Maybe the power did manifest to us in various ways, and our faith and belief that M was the lord actually made him so in our eyes. For a long time I was totally convinced that Maharaji was the Almighty God in human form. Nothing could have convinced me otherwise. What was it, illusions, hallucinations, God only knows. I used to be convinced that Maharaji had shown me who and what he ws, the Lord of All. So what was occuring? Was I mad? Or did I experience God and he just decided to show himself in the form of an Indian Guru for a while as the easiest available option. You know I always considered myself to be a devotee of God and not an Indian Guru. That is the point from which we can start now. We are still close to God. He can still move things for us. David.
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Date: Fri, Dec 5, 1997 at 07:57:40 (EST)
Poster: b
Email: morning sun
To: beserk
Subject: Re: Radiating Grace (Re: Divine&Worldly?Master&Manipulator?)
Message:
And I felt that his flaws were there to keep the knowledge safe. So many people came and left and became part of so called spiritual groups and yet even if you look through them, I felt, you still don't find anyclarity about the life. You get a ton of things added on like everywhere else. Look at our friend Mike, he has been given all sorts of things besides just a connection to god. And even the connection to god is immersed with human added complexity and if he doesn't tell us the rest of the ideas, one thing is for certain, there is no one else making it available to us. The head guys are too busy falling over. So I thought, it is protected till maharaji gets his stuff together. And that he radiated grace and didn't know it, and so he didn't have enough confidence in that to relax and be happy and show people trapped in belief systems all over the globe that the god is inside, without having to say ANYTHING about himself ever and he didn't have to describe or be involved at all with how people viewed him. I told my wife a couple years ago that he wouldn't be fully himself until he completely stopped careing what people thought about him. And I meant EVERYBODY. As long as he can't view us as total equals, he is stuck putting up this front to support the power over others he enjoys in his private life. And although he states it as, 'sure, everything can be improved', that masks,or puts a spin on his long running absorption by greed. By being long corrupted by the nature of greed and power tripping over people, he has had the consequences of poor self control in other areas of his life. His anger, pride, sex, personal relationships, distorted sense of self, These are big red flags and he suffers as a result. Either the power doesn't want this info out, or by him, or timing is everything and he will clear up someday and get self control (which he thinks he has a great deal of). He does have self control certainly, but it is the kind that also suffers the distortion factor caused by his false sense of self. Imagine how much he could have done in his life with us way back when if he had been loving and happy. He could be reading this forum and get himself in shape but his track record will assure that the religions of the world will still be intact after he dies. Women will still get that religious persecution and the clitoris will still be cut out of 80 million women a year. I think thats the figure. The caste system will march into another century with no end in sight. This from that DIVINE country India. They can name thier children godlove or ram and all the rest, but the caste system is untouched. The wars caused by religious beliefs are safe to continue, the indoctrination of the newborns will go on, the champion of knowledge is caught, snagged at the starting gate, in himself. By himself, and because of his misperception of himself. If he talked about krishna in amaroo, and said like I have been told, that he finally understands what krishna was talking about at that battle scene where he got arjuna to kill his friends and relatives, that we should kill our CONCEPTS we have of those people. Of who they are, then if he does that, then maybe he would see us as the total equals that we are. And even if it could be proven that he has radiating grace, and everybody knew it, still, he is our total equal and it is just the power's way of assisting those who might come to it. anyway, I have to go make toast for boys, if they were girls I am sure I could get them to make them for me. They are more capable earlier. Of course, emotionally as women get older they are really vulnerable to things. I'd rather be a guy then go through that. He could have a great feeling inside all the time. And then the distortions could be straightened out. Crist opher is going to the december event, he can report if maharaji is making any headway. I won't hold my 5 different breaths.
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Date: Fri, Dec 5, 1997 at 11:05:10 (EST)
Poster: Deena Tasteful
Email: deena@cableregina.com
To: b
Subject: Re: Radiating Grace (Re: Divine&Worldly?Master&Manipulator?)
Message:
Please explain this custom about cutting woman's clitoris I have never heard of this? And I am interested in what M meant by the Krishna story which I am familiar. What did he mean killing the concepts we have of family? How did he relate it to his usual detached indifference to 'the world that eats you up and spits you out'?
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Date: Fri, Dec 5, 1997 at 11:51:36 (EST)
Poster: David Simpkiss
Email: djulian@cix.compulink.co.uk
To: Deena Tasteful
Subject: Re: Radiating Grace (Re: Divine&Worldly?Master&Manipulator?)
Message:
I'd just thought I'd mention it but I can think of no better description of what Maharaji did to a lot of us by stating that he ate us up and spat us out. By the way, I think it's Muslim cultures, mainly in Northern Africa, which perform this female circumscision on young girls. The clitoris is cut out preesumably to prevent her from having sexual satisfaction (which is only for the men) and I even have heard that the vagina is sewn up to ensure she remains a virgin. A very cruel and barbaric practise.
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Date: Fri, Dec 5, 1997 at 22:25:23 (EST)
Poster: last gasps of the
Email: BB
To: DS
Subject: excuse maker (Re: Divine&Worldly?Master&Manipulator?)
Message:
Hello david S. I'll get back to you on another night
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Date: Thurs, Dec 4, 1997 at 14:50:08 (EST)
Poster: Katie
Email:
To: Everyone
Subject: Dr. John Horton
Message:
Mike was asking me whatever happened to Dr. John Horton (Mike and I are both from the DC area so we knew Dr John way back when). I know I read something in the archives about Dr. John, but I can't remember what it was. Does anyone know - did he become a mahatma - is he still one - whatever? Joe and Annie, do you know anything? Thanks
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Date: Thurs, Dec 4, 1997 at 15:52:48 (EST)
Poster: Bobby
Email:
To: Katie
Subject: Re: Dr. John Horton
Message:
I remember Dr. John from '71. I was very sick when I first got to India (actually I got sick in England). Dr. John was kind to me and we spoke for awhile in the tents for the Westerners at Ram Lila grounds in Delhi. In '73 or '74 we lived together in the ashram at 35th street. Dr. John did become a mahatma. I thought I heard somewhere that he was still involved but I don't know for sure.
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Date: Thurs, Dec 4, 1997 at 15:53:18 (EST)
Poster: Bobby
Email:
To: Katie
Subject: Re: Dr. John Horton
Message:
I remember Dr. John from '71. I was very sick when I first got to India (actually I got sick in England). Dr. John was kind to me and we spoke for awhile in the tents for the Westerners at Ram Lila grounds in Delhi. In '73 or '74 we lived together in the ashram at 35th street in New York City. Dr. John did become a mahatma I think in the late '70's. I thought I heard somewhere that he was still involved but I don't know for sure.
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Date: Thurs, Dec 4, 1997 at 16:07:39 (EST)
Poster: JW
Email:
To: Katie
Subject: Re: Dr. John Horton
Message:
Mike was asking me whatever happened to Dr. John Horton (Mike and I are both from the DC area so we knew Dr John way back when). I know I read something in the archives about Dr. John, but I can't remember what it was. Does anyone know - did he become a mahatma - is he still one - whatever? Joe and Annie, do you know anything? Thanks Horton did become an initiator, I think he was one of the first dozen or so. John was a nice guy, very kind, slow to judgment of others, and very cute. I always thought he looked like Perry Como in his younger days, and dressed much the same way. He was always very kind to me too, which I especially appreciated when I was so unhappy in the cult. I spent quite a bit of time with him in Miami, DC and San Francisco. I always thought it was kind of a waste because he wasn't practicing medicine, especially because there never were very many aspirants for him to see anyway. Maybe he is now. According to OP, she saw him at some program last spring. So, according to her, he still has some involvement. Joe
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Date: Thurs, Dec 4, 1997 at 16:40:48 (EST)
Poster: Bobby
Email:
To: JW
Subject: Re: Dr. John Horton
Message:
Now that I think of it, I believe I saw him at the June New York City event.
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Date: Fri, Dec 5, 1997 at 00:41:53 (EST)
Poster: malpractice
Email: drool
To: Bobby
Subject: Horton hears a who (Re: Dr. John Horton)
Message:
I have at least one cassette tape of him speaking. It was the only ok time i heard him I almost always hated to hear him speak. In the late 80's I had to leave the hall till he was done. I had never done that before, well let me take that back, at hans jayanti 79, monday after m's speech that JW referred to, John ______ red hair, accountant then instructor, got up and spoke and tried to outdo m's speech by beating us up further, He was the first person I walked out on. Of course everyone else thought Horton was fantastic and laughed a lot. I don't know what it was, but it pained me to hear him. I remember thinking at the time that people would alway worship and look up to him. because he was a DOCTOR, and each time he would speak he would mention that and his whole discourse would usually have the 'I'm special' undertone to it. I know I wasn't imagineing it. The same day as the last time I heard John, I heard Joan Apter speak. I was in shock because she was devoid of devotion and was lost as a result. Without the devotional angle she had nothing to say really. It's to late to embark on some history. goodnight
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Date: Fri, Dec 5, 1997 at 11:25:54 (EST)
Poster: John
Email: kreilkamp@mindspring.com
To: malpractice
Subject: Re: Horton hears a who (Re: Dr. John Horton)
Message:
I find this amazing! Because I never really liked listening to the good doctor either, but you know I never allowed myself the luxury or pleasure of analyzing and critiquing the many instructors we had to listen to give us satsang. I always loved listening to Joan Apter though. Devoid of devotion? I always thought that was her style, that is, tough as nails, not mushy like say a sherry weinstein. But you know if I start analyzing this kind of stuff, well then someone can turn around and critique the b.s. I used to spout. Do I really want to be judged the way I judge everyone? Of course not!
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Date: Fri, Dec 5, 1997 at 11:58:47 (EST)
Poster: JW
Email:
To: malpractice
Subject: Re: Horton hears a who (Re: Dr. John Horton)
Message:
I have at least one cassette tape of him speaking. It was the only ok time i heard him I almost always hated to hear him speak. In the late 80's I had to leave the hall till he was done. I had never done that before, well let me take that back, at hans jayanti 79, monday after m's speech that JW referred to, John ______ red hair, accountant then instructor, got up and spoke and tried to outdo m's speech by beating us up further, He was the first person I walked out on. Of course everyone else thought Horton was fantastic and laughed a lot. I don't know what it was, but it pained me to hear him. I remember thinking at the time that people would alway worship and look up to him. because he was a DOCTOR, and each time he would speak he would mention that and his whole discourse would usually have the 'I'm special' undertone to it. I know I wasn't imagineing it. The same day as the last time I heard John, I heard Joan Apter speak. I was in shock because she was devoid of devotion and was lost as a result. Without the devotional angle she had nothing to say really. It's to late to embark on some history. goodnight I guess I can relate to what you are saying. I think my views of Dr. John were influenced by the fact that he was kind to me personally, even during a period towards the end when I was asking questions that made uptight guru-robots like David Smith very nervous and violently angry at me. But I always got the impression that Horton thought he was "special" and "high" enough to be a guru himself and really wanted to be a spiritual leader of devotees. But I tended to overlook this because he was kind to me and I was so starved in the cult for personal, human friendship of any sort. JW
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Date: Fri, Dec 5, 1997 at 12:04:32 (EST)
Poster: Katie
Email: petkat@mail.trib.net
To: John
Subject: off the subject (Re: Dr. John Horton)
Message:
Hi John - I know you (you probably don't remember me, but I remember you from the DC ashram). I used to be called Mischa and I'm still real good friends with LouAnn (a.k.a. Shine). Anyway, greetings. What do you think about this forum, by the way?
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Date: Fri, Dec 5, 1997 at 12:16:36 (EST)
Poster: Bobby
Email:
To: JW
Subject: Re: Horton hears a who (Re: Dr. John Horton)
Message:
I never got that impression of John Horton. But I really wasn't around him much after he became an initiator. I remember John as being very dilligent in his meditation practice. He would sit for meditation for quite awhile after the rest of us had left the meditation room.
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Date: Fri, Dec 5, 1997 at 12:23:56 (EST)
Poster: JW
Email:
To: malpractice
Subject: Re: Horton hears a who (Re: Dr. John Horton)
Message:
By the way, I walked out on Maharaji speaking once in 1990 because I found what he was saying inane, at times offensive and insulting. I had not seen him for about seven years at the time, and they had given me a seat in the FOURTH ROW. So, it was a long walk and I knew he saw me. It was one of the most liberating things I have ever experienced. JW
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Date: Fri, Dec 5, 1997 at 16:20:01 (EST)
Poster: Mili
Email:
To: JW
Subject: Re: Horton hears a who (Re: Dr. John Horton)
Message:
By the way, I walked out on Maharaji speaking once in 1990 because I found what he was saying inane, at times offensive and insulting. I had not seen him for about seven years at the time, and they had given me a seat in the FOURTH ROW. So, it was a long walk and I knew he saw me. It was one of the most liberating things I have ever experienced. JW Gosh, and no one tried to stop you from leaving the cult !?
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Date: Fri, Dec 5, 1997 at 16:47:04 (EST)
Poster: John
Email:
To: Katie
Subject: Re: off the subject (Re: Dr. John Horton)
Message:
Hi John - I know you (you probably don't remember me, but I remember you from the DC ashram). I used to be called Mischa and I'm still real good friends with LouAnn (a.k.a. Shine). Anyway, greetings. What do you think about this forum, by the way? Hi Katie who used to be Mischa. I do remember you, and I remember Joe Whalen. We spent Thanksgiving with Louann, who used to be Shine, and Terry, her husband. She told me about this web page and so here I am. I love it. To be continued...later.
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Date: Fri, Dec 5, 1997 at 18:28:02 (EST)
Poster: Katie
Email: petkat@mail.trib.net
To: John
Subject: Re: off the subject (Re: Dr. John Horton)
Message:
Welcome, John - and I'm glad you like the forum. I'm looking forward to hearing your views on things these days. P.S. My real name IS Katie (not Mischa) but you know how it was back in those days. My family still calls me Mischa, which is embarrassing but what can you do?
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Date: Fri, Dec 5, 1997 at 19:07:10 (EST)
Poster: JW
Email:
To: John
Subject: Re: off the subject (Re: Dr. John Horton)
Message:
Hi John. Since you remember me from DC, I want to apologize in advance for anything weird or offensive I may had done to you in my official DLM capacity. I do take responsibility for that stuff, but I am currently embarrassed by much of it. I was only in DC for about seven months until I got called back down to Miami to work on the Boeing 707 plane project. (Hated it!) Did I live with you in the ashram there? Unlike Katie, I have always gone by the same name. Teehee. Joe (JW)
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Date: Fri, Dec 5, 1997 at 19:38:44 (EST)
Poster: Katie
Email: petkat@mail.trib.net
To: JW and all
Subject: Re: off the subject (Re: Dr. John Horton)
Message:
Since you remember me from DC, I want to apologize in advance for anything weird or offensive I may had done to you in my official DLM capacity. I do take responsibility for that stuff, but I am currently embarrassed by much of it. I was only in DC for about seven months until I got called back down to Miami to work on the Boeing 707 plane project. (Hated it!) Did I live with you in the ashram there? Unlike Katie, I have always gone by the same name. Teehee. Joe (JW) I am embarrassed about some things in my distant past, too. Specifically, it's been kind of embarrassing to have people who knew me in my premie days appear on the web site. I don't know if I have anything to apologize for, but I do know that I was a very awkward, self-conscious, and insecure person back then (like a lot of teenage girls - but I didn't know that then of course!). I probably also said and did a lot of stupid things - thankfully I don't remember most of them. Also, I was pretty homely back then - not that I am beautiful now or anything - but I lost forty pounds directly after renouncing Maharaji (anyone see a connnection there? Remember how lots of premie women gained weight after receiving knowledge?) which did help me feel a lot better about my appearance. But it took me a lot longer to get rid of my dumb "hippie name", and that's still a little embarrassing too! Not to mention the self-conciousness, awkwardness, and insecurity - I'm still working on those!
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Date: Fri, Dec 5, 1997 at 20:47:04 (EST)
Poster: JW
Email:
To: Katie
Subject: Re: off the subject (Re: Dr. John Horton)
Message:
Well, I have seen your wedding picture, Katie, and, as Festus used to say about Miss Kitty on Gunsmoke, you have turned into "a fine lookin woman." I got skinny as a rail for at least part of the time I was a premie. My brother had this picture of me from Orlando Hans Jayanti in 1975 (he was a premie then) and I cringe every time I look at. I was about 20 pounds underweight, wearing old worn-out earth shoes, an old, white, Mexican wedding shirt, and those pants you can buy only at Woolworths for $3.99, although I'm sure I got them from Goodwill. He used to bring it out and laugh about it. I always wanted to get it and destroy it, but he wouldn't let me. I also looked like death-warmed over, I had ridden a bus all the way from San Antonio, Texas, with the rest of the ashram. God, was THAT a nightmare. But I felt blissed-out nonetheless. JW
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Date: Fri, Dec 5, 1997 at 21:44:12 (EST)
Poster: Miss Kitty
Email: petkat@mail.trib.net
To: JW
Subject: Re: off the subject (Re: Dr. John Horton)
Message:
Thank you very much for the compliment, Joe. I've seen your picture too, as you know, and you are a right good-lookin' guy yourself. I can definitely understand how you feel about the picture of yourself from Orlando 1975. And I cannot imagine riding a bus from San Antonio - doesn't it take 36 hours to get across Texas itself? I would hate for someone to have a picture of me from that festival - I was miserable then. There are, I think, three pictures of me from the time when I was a premie (plus a few pictures in two friends' wedding albums. Luckily both couples have since divorced so they don't have their wedding albums out on the coffee table anymore). One is my passport photo from Guru Puja 1973, one is one of those pictures that you take in a photo booth - 4 for 25 cents, and one is a candid shot. I really hate all of them - I feel that so much of the confusion I was going through inside was reflected in my appearance. But I think it's important to see them once and a while because I think it's important to accept yourself as you were, not just as you are - I believe that Bobby talked about this somewhere in one of the other threads. I'm working on it, and that's one of the things this forum helps with.
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Date: Thurs, Dec 4, 1997 at 10:49:46 (EST)
Poster: Deena
Email: deena@cableregina.com
To: Everyone
Subject: Tasteful and Distastful Post
Message:
It has been brought to my attention that some of my posts are distasteful as far as my attitude towards Maharaji, and will be skipped over by one person in particular (and there may well be others who feel similarly). In light of this I thought that it might be helpful to rate my posts in future so as to warn those who may be offended by them. Apparently it isn't the content by the intent that is the problem. Yesterday I watched trial photoage where Ted Bundy's defended himself because he had studied law. Handing down sentence the judge complimented Ted for his brilliance as a lawyer and commented that he would have loved to have him practise in his court if he hadn't taken a differet road (as a serial killer). He was also described by many others as charming, articulate and impressive. After this the judge proceeded to sentence him to death. I bring this up because if Ted had not slipped up in his murder spree a couple of times and the damning evidence was not available then he was winning his case. It was this personality that made it possible for him to charm his victims as well. It is well known that Hitler adored children and loved dogs. His personal secretary who remained by his side to the end was unaware of the unspeakable horrors he was responsible for because he was so good at conducting business with her in a respectful way and hiding the true nature of his mission in life. I bring up these two extreme examples not to imply that Maharaji is like Hitler or Ted Bundy, but to show that deception is possible at many levels. If the public were aware of what many ex-premies have shared here they would be more wary in their judgement of who and what Maharaji is all about. Unfortunately he surrounds himself with lawyers and PR people whose job it is to filter screen take care all matters that effect his image etc. I know this from personal experience when I was contact person and received faxes concerning media attending video events. There were specific instructions that Maharaji had given on how this was to be handled and there numbers of the people in charge of this service. David Smith also shared with me how everything is overseen by M. His instructions were direct. And the impression it left me (though at the time I blissfully carried out everything) was that there were two worlds. One seen and one hidden. Secrets in every dept. For instance: due to the sensitive nature of this please only tell those premies who are receptive or use this term to describe this situation, not using the actual name of the service,etc. My intent in this post is to inform anyone reading this that the way Maharaji presents Knowledge hides many aspects of what it really is about. The ex-instructor (and many other ex-premies) has many examples of this in the recent days and Bob Mishler's interview reveals what occured in the past. This is something to question.... How all these people who loved Maharaji, now find reason not to. Are all of them (myself included) deluded or mentally ill or seeking some selfish motive to take the time to warn others to be cautious of Maharaji? The fact that he drank heavily in Mishler's days and in the days after he died there are many reliable sources of accounts of his continued drinking is suspicious in itself. But this alone is not the issue for me. It is abhorent to me that the world of Knowledge is based on idol worship. Besides any who goes to India today or attended the 70's and early 80's satsangs knows that the crowds Bhole Shri's were unmistakeably like the sounds of innocent German people hailing Hitler fully trusting he would lead them to prosperity with no mention of mass murder as his intent. If this post is distasteful I need to know because I don't think so. On the other hand if I am to state my opinion that MAHARAJI IS A FUCK UP ... I understand that as being distasteful.
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Date: Thurs, Dec 4, 1997 at 11:48:57 (EST)
Poster: Mike
Email: bigguy32@juno.com
To: Deena
Subject: Re: Tasteful and Distastful Post
Message:
It has been brought to my attention that some of my posts are distasteful as far as my attitude towards Maharaji, and will be skipped over by one person in particular (and there may well be others who feel similarly). In light of this I thought that it might be helpful to rate my posts in future so as to warn those who may be offended by them. Apparently it isn't the content by the intent that is the problem. Yesterday I watched trial photoage where Ted Bundy's defended himself because he had studied law. Handing down sentence the judge complimented Ted for his brilliance as a lawyer and commented that he would have loved to have him practise in his court if he hadn't taken a differet road (as a serial killer). He was also described by many others as charming, articulate and impressive. After this the judge proceeded to sentence him to death. I bring this up because if Ted had not slipped up in his murder spree a couple of times and the damning evidence was not available then he was winning his case. It was this personality that made it possible for him to charm his victims as well. It is well known that Hitler adored children and loved dogs. His personal secretary who remained by his side to the end was unaware of the unspeakable horrors he was responsible for because he was so good at conducting business with her in a respectful way and hiding the true nature of his mission in life. I bring up these two extreme examples not to imply that Maharaji is like Hitler or Ted Bundy, but to show that deception is possible at many levels. If the public were aware of what many ex-premies have shared here they would be more wary in their judgement of who and what Maharaji is all about. Unfortunately he surrounds himself with lawyers and PR people whose job it is to filter screen take care all matters that effect his image etc. I know this from personal experience when I was contact person and received faxes concerning media attending video events. There were specific instructions that Maharaji had given on how this was to be handled and there numbers of the people in charge of this service. David Smith also shared with me how everything is overseen by M. His instructions were direct. And the impression it left me (though at the time I blissfully carried out everything) was that there were two worlds. One seen and one hidden. Secrets in every dept. For instance: due to the sensitive nature of this please only tell those premies who are receptive or use this term to describe this situation, not using the actual name of the service,etc. My intent in this post is to inform anyone reading this that the way Maharaji presents Knowledge hides many aspects of what it really is about. The ex-instructor (and many other ex-premies) has many examples of this in the recent days and Bob Mishler's interview reveals what occured in the past. This is something to question.... How all these people who loved Maharaji, now find reason not to. Are all of them (myself included) deluded or mentally ill or seeking some selfish motive to take the time to warn others to be cautious of Maharaji? The fact that he drank heavily in Mishler's days and in the days after he died there are many reliable sources of accounts of his continued drinking is suspicious in itself. But this alone is not the issue for me. It is abhorent to me that the world of Knowledge is based on idol worship. Besides any who goes to India today or attended the 70's and early 80's satsangs knows that the crowds Bhole Shri's were unmistakeably like the sounds of innocent German people hailing Hitler fully trusting he would lead them to prosperity with no mention of mass murder as his intent. If this post is distasteful I need to know because I don't think so. On the other hand if I am to state my opinion that MAHARAJI IS A FUCK UP ... I understand that as being distasteful. Dear Deena, I thought the purpose of this forum was to provide a means for us to talk about the problems and hurts as well as the joys and trills no matter how distastful/tastful it might be. I think as long as we attack the problem and not the person, we'll be doing ourself a hugh favor psychologically to heal ourselves. Obviously, your very hurt by the stuff Prempal was doing in the guise of Guru Maharaji. The name Guru Maharaji is reserved for a person who practices what he preaches, and not for a person that shows the public one thing and performs unsavory acts away from the public. I don't think that anyone or any organization can take the Guru Maharaji that resides inside of you away. It is our life support itself. That Being is very personal to you and no one can rob you of it. That Being, within you... adores you and agonizes waiting for you to give it notice. It provides all of your bodies functions and provides you a consciousness for you to discover it. It is head over heels in love with you. It provides you with a playground to play with it. However, there are a hugh amount of people who'll try to steal your heart and claim the mantle of Guru Maharaji or Swami Ji or Bhagwan or, or, or, the list of titles is endless. Illusion does it's job extremely well! Perfect in fact. And, what makes us different from the animals is that we always, always, have the choice to accept or reject that Illusion anytime. The hard part for me at least is, finding what parts of life are Illusion and what parts are not. Like a Jain... I'm constantly doing Eti, Eti, Neti, Neti (This is Truth, This is not Truth). The American Public as far as I know... during the 70's was very innocent to spiritual deceptors and frauds from India. I remember being told that: "India and a long spiritual foot and a short material foot... and that the americans had a long material foot and a short spiritual foot." So, the East Indians are mercifully coming over to "Help" us... right, sure. My bullshit alarm went off when I heard this and I couldn't figure out why at that time. One thing I did learn, is not to be ashamed in anyway when someone attacks you mentally, spiritually or physically and standup and bring that attack into the light for everyone to see in our global village. And, to not be ashamed or embarrassed to say there's a snake in the compound so to speak. I don't think you need to rate your inputs or be embarrassed in anyway, shape or form. I've been blown away with your devotion which is a very precious thing and is a very rare and hard to find gift that you offered him.
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Date: Thurs, Dec 4, 1997 at 11:57:12 (EST)
Poster: Mr Ex
Email:
To: Deena
Subject: Re: Distastful Post (Re: Tasteful and Distastful Post)
Message:
yeah .... one of the key words in Maharaji's conferences (for co- ordinators, instructors, etc) : confidentiality What's so confidential about TRUE love? Love and care can be expressed in so many ways, no need to hide anything. What's being hidden is now to be seen on INTERNET He doesn't like it : VERY GOOD I'm working on some more very interesting stuff regarding Maharaji's finances .... soon available for everybody. He is going to go in his pants : VERY GOOD DISTASTFUL POST
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Date: Thurs, Dec 4, 1997 at 12:26:33 (EST)
Poster: Deena - Tastefull
Email: deena@cableregina.com
To: Mr Ex and Mike
Subject: Re: Distastful Post (Re: Tasteful and Distastful Post)
Message:
I love you guys! I was so touched by your post Mike because you acknowledged the devotion I felt for M. And I laughed out loud when I read your post Mr. Ex. The thought of M going in his pants was too much. Thank you both for taking the time to write me. It is very much appreciated. My rating system is for the benifet particularly of the person who made the comments about my distastefullness. I just thought it was a good idea to give that person a chance to read some things that may be tastefull and not to be missed.
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Date: Thurs, Dec 4, 1997 at 12:43:29 (EST)
Poster: Mr Y
Email:
To: Deena - Tastefull
Subject: Re: Distastful Post (Re: Tasteful and Distastful Post)
Message:
And didn't Adolph Hitler put the blame on everyone else when it all went terribly wrong? By the way, why did Bob Mishler's helecopter with him and all his family on board, suddenly and inexplicably explode in mid air??!!!
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Date: Thurs, Dec 4, 1997 at 13:52:24 (EST)
Poster: Deena Tasteful
Email: deena@cableregina.com
To: Mr Y
Subject: Re: Distastful Post (Re: Tasteful and Distastful Post)
Message:
And didn't Adolph Hitler put the blame on everyone else when it all went terribly wrong? By the way, why did Bob Mishler's helecopter with him and all his family on board, suddenly and inexplicably explode in mid air??!!! Yah, I forgot how Alde blamed everyone - good point. Who does that remind us of huh? In answer to your inquiry, I don't know. That has always haunted me. I thought if I ever wrote a book or screen play I would dedicate it to Bob. It's said that his death had nothing to do with Maharaji or his premies but I'll always wonder. Premie's probably think it was perfect the way it happened because Bob was a liar and a thorn in Maharaji's side...of course in the same breath they would deny that they would ever think that and it was a tragedy for any life to be lost. But the 'what goes around comes around' philosophy seems real to alot of premies I know. Their reality is fraught with the 'Grace' carrying them through stuff and that other nameless thing that seems to be keeping them from the 'Grace'. Pretty magical. But of course, he's the greates magician, right?
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Date: Thurs, Dec 4, 1997 at 14:09:48 (EST)
Poster: Katie
Email: petkat@mail.trib.net
To: Deena
Subject: You Go, Girl! (Re: Tasteful and Distastful Post)
Message:
Dear Deena - It's my opinion that your posts (and Mr. Ex's) really bother some premies because you have so recently felt the same thing that they do about GMJ, but have changed your mind. Most of the other ex-premies on this forum left 10 or more years ago (20 in my case), so they can brush us off by saying that things were different back then, or we never knew the TRUE Maharaji. But you guys are different. There's a comment by another woman named Katie in the Journeys section of the ex-premie site (Journeys is under In Contact). She works with cult survivors and she said that it's very similar to working with abused children. I agree. One thing that's really important in the healing process of abused children is to feel OK about expressing anger towards the people that abused them. I was abused by my dad (not sexually) and in therapy I wrote him tons of letters that said things like "drop dead", "fuck you", and so on. I didn't mail these letters, but it was very freeing for me to write them and express that anger towards my dad. I don't see any problem with people expressing anger (even in profane words) towards Maharaji on this site - I think it can be quite healing. I don't think it's distasteful at all. I'm sorry if some of the premies don't like it, but this is a forum for ex-premies, after all. (By the way, in families where several children in the family have been abused, and one kid goes public with it, the rest of the kids often get very angry at the kid who has admitted that he or she was abused.) Anyway, I'm glad you're on the site, Deena. You go, girl! (got that from JW...)
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Date: Thurs, Dec 4, 1997 at 15:48:37 (EST)
Poster: Mr Y
Email:
To: Deena Tasteful
Subject: Re: Distastful Post (Re: Tasteful and Distastful Post)
Message:
You suggest that it was said that Bob Mishler and his family's death was never connected to Maharaji or his premies. Why? What was there to imply that there could not have been a connection? Since most of us were adoring premies at the time, we would have hardly had started an investigation into the suspicious death ourselves, would we. Helecopters don't just blow up for no reason. What was known, if anything, about the cause of the explosion? Did any premies see the final crash report or verdict? I do not think we should let this matter rest until the full facts are known.
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Date: Thurs, Dec 4, 1997 at 16:42:01 (EST)
Poster: Deena
Email: deena@cableregina.com
To: Mr Y
Subject: Re: Distastful Post (Re: Tasteful and Distastful Post)
Message:
You suggest that it was said that Bob Mishler and his family's death was never connected to Maharaji or his premies. Why? What was there to imply that there could not have been a connection? Since most of us were adoring premies at the time, we would have hardly had started an investigation into the suspicious death ourselves, would we. Helecopters don't just blow up for no reason. What was known, if anything, about the cause of the explosion? Did any premies see the final crash report or verdict? I do not think we should let this matter rest until the full facts are known. This is excellent and I agree. For once and for all let's get to the bottom of this! How do you suggest we start? Do you have any connections yourself. I wish I knew someone at 60 minutes, they spend Big Bucks to investigate.
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Date: Thurs, Dec 4, 1997 at 19:34:45 (EST)
Poster: Michael
Email: overandoverandoverandover...
To: Deena
Subject: Re: Tasteful and Distastful Post
Message:
Deena, I don't think that your posts are ever distasteful. What is distasteful is when everybody starts printing the lyrics to Arti and it takes me two days to get that inane melody out of my head. I've been fine for years, and then all of the sudden I've got "You are my mother, you are my brother, etc" playing over and over and over! Brainwashing! It's as bad as those posts about Blue Aquarius earlier this summer!:-)
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Date: Thurs, Dec 4, 1997 at 20:05:51 (EST)
Poster: JW
Email:
To: Michael
Subject: Re: Tasteful and Distastful Post
Message:
Deena, I don't think that your posts are ever distasteful. What is distasteful is when everybody starts printing the lyrics to Arti and it takes me two days to get that inane melody out of my head. I've been fine for years, and then all of the sudden I've got 'You are my mother, you are my brother, etc' playing over and over and over! Brainwashing! It's as bad as those posts about Blue Aquarius earlier this summer!:-) I also really appreciate Deena's posts. They have really helped me understand a lot more about my own experience. I also know what you mean about arti. A friend of mine reminded me that prior to the "you are my mother" stuff we used to sing it in hindi (twameva mata, cha pita twameva) remember that? I haven't been able to get THAT out of my head today. By the way, exactly WHO WERE the creater, preserver and destroyer who used to all bow their heads and pray to Maharaji? Were they, respectively, Bill Patterson, Joan Apter and Mahatma Fakiranand? Joe
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Date: Thurs, Dec 4, 1997 at 20:41:53 (EST)
Poster: bobby
Email:
To: Michael
Subject: hold on to your hats, here's another (Re: Tasteful and Distastful Post)
Message:
Oh my Guru Maharaj Ji You are the infinite ocean of mercy Kindly by your glorious, Supremely holy, selfless and almighty grace Awaken the deepest feelings Of universal brotherhood and love In the hearts of all mankind So that released from the bondage of pleasure and pain and birth and death And drinking the nectar of your sweet love All may attain Supreme Bliss And everlasting peace.
Kind of a beautiful prayer really. And I really liked the music. This is from memory. I can still pray this even though I wouldn't pray it to Balyogeshwar.
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Date: Fri, Dec 5, 1997 at 00:03:34 (EST)
Poster: Mama maya
Email: akashic records
To: JW
Subject: and the three gunas (Re: Tasteful and Distastful Post)
Message:
It was bal bhagwan, bhole, and raja. I have the posters to prove it. And of course mom was the holiest mother of creation. Maharaji was supremest lord and some other things, I'll have to check.
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Date: Fri, Dec 5, 1997 at 00:11:50 (EST)
Poster: Knight of the Stocking Top
Email:
To: The commoners
Subject: Re: hold on to your hats, here's another (Re: Tasteful and Distastful Post)
Message:
Well damn, Deena I finally remembered that missing verse and since it's been going round MY head for the past 2 days, here it is: Wherever I look your face is before me, your golden love melts all my troubles away. I give you my heart for in you it will mellow, Maharaji my Lord my life is your play. There, now get waving your arti tray, after three, 1 2 3 Jai Guru Dev Maharaj Ji dum dum dum, your glory fills the world...
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Date: Fri, Dec 5, 1997 at 01:01:35 (EST)
Poster: Sir Noddy of Toytown
Email: djulian@cix.compulink.co.uk
To: Mama maya
Subject: Re: and the three gunas (Re: Tasteful and Distastful Post)
Message:
Yes I remember now. Glen Whittaker told us in a London satsang that God had come with so much power that He had manifested into FIVE bodies. Bal Bagwan Ji was Jesus Christ, Mata Ji was supposedly Mary and so on. In those days I even believed that Mahatmas could read my mind and were divine realised souls. I remember Ashokanand once rebuking me for touching his feet in Heathrow airport, where the "unenlightened people" wouldn't understand.
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Date: Fri, Dec 5, 1997 at 01:38:49 (EST)
Poster: Deena Tasteful
Email: deena@cableregina.com
To: Knight of the Stocking Top
Subject: Re: hold on to your hats, here's another (Re: Tasteful and Distastful Post)
Message:
Well damn, Deena I finally remembered that missing verse and since it's been going round MY head for the past 2 days, here it is: Wherever I look your face is before me, your golden love melts all my troubles away. I give you my heart for in you it will mellow, Maharaji my Lord my life is your play. There, now get waving your arti tray, after three, 1 2 3 Jai Guru Dev Maharaj Ji dum dum dum, your glory fills the world... My apoligies for the flashbacks...I didn't mean to bring back the nightmare of that time. Thanks for remembering. I posted it so new people who stumble on the sight know that this what was song to Maharaji not so many years ago while he sat smiling on his throne. I just meant for people to think about someone that would allow all that worship of him to occur. Afterall, if he was singing it himself to the divine lover within than he would have been leading the song not receiving it.
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Date: Fri, Dec 5, 1997 at 12:06:24 (EST)
Poster: Mr Ex
Email:
To: Deena
Subject: Re: BigM is Distasteful (Re: Tasteful and Distastful Post)
Message:
I thought a lot about this big controversial meditation business ! That’s important for me. I’ve spent 25 years of my life practicing meditation with what I thought was a master. What’s now clear to me is that I’ve probably spent much more time actually practicing meditation than Prem Rawat. Why ? He himself gave enough indications. The way he was initiated : he was very young, the session was very short and he never got any further indications from his master for a very practical reason : his master died ! He could have got help from ‘his’ mahatmas or his mother. Regarding his mother : he himself said many times that she did not understand much about ‘knowledge’, even in his father’s time, very likely because she never practiced herself. Maybe she did, but meditation is not an easy way and there is no indication that she had any insight. From what I remember from her talks, there was nothing ‘spiritual’ in them, she was only quoting maharaji, never saying anything about her experience. Why ? She had none, of course. Except when she would give ‘darshan’. I did attend some with her, sitting or standing next to her. The expression of devotion coming from these devotees was beautiful, but that never gives you an inner experience. Lots of famous singers experience this from their fans : it feels good, but that’s all about it. If you can live by this, fine, that’s very likely what the Rawat’s family does. And most of the people around them : attending darshan next to PPR is very likely the most they get as a ‘spiritual’ experience. They won’t object : I already discussed that with some of these guys. Regarding his mahatmas : some of these guys obviously had a deep experience. But it took them a lot of practice to get there, and they could help you in that field. I did spend a lot of time with some of these Indian guys/ladies. Some were jerks. Some were really near what you could expect from a master. But PPR never learned anything from them I guess. He just fired them because they were taller than him. And as he himself said so many times, you need a living master. He also said many times that ‘knowledge’ is not for kids, even not for teenagers, with some exceptions. He probably recalls what he went himself through! From what I know about the experience of ‘real’ enlightened souls and masters, it is not that easy to proceed on the inner path. You need guidance to be able to proceed inside (if that’s your purpose, I assume it is). In some rare instances, like Ramana Maharshi, you can proceed by yourself. But in that instance what the master says and the way he behaves is a clear reflection of his ‘spiritual’ path, he can clearly tell what happened to him. Prem Rawat never said anything about his experience. Prem Rawat often mentioned that he ‘realized knowledge’ after a short period of time. OK. Why not. I can admit that. I can also admit that he does not need to practice anymore, I read about quite a few examples of that type. But : 1/ meditation has nothing to do with sitting an hour and practicing 4 techniques for 15 minutes each. It takes much more. I’ve experienced that, and I don’t consider myself a realized soul. If you really want to go into it (otherwise why would you practice meditation), you shouldn’t care for time. The 1st technique takes you somewhere, when you are really into it you proceed to the 2nd technique, and so on. It takes quite a long time some days, and when you are into it, you don’t want to stop after 1 hour, even after 2 hours ! It’s so enjoyable that you just want to stay there. Someone has to tell you this. Otherwise you might never know. Of course it’s not PPR’s purpose. Just practice the 4 techniques, trust, and proceed in the business. It’s not going to take you anywhere (inside). By chance I wasn’t very satisfied with PPR’s knowledge right from the beginning, and I also started to practice Vipassana, and attended a course with Mr Goenka. That helped me a lot to go beyond all my tensions and to relax into meditation, feeling what is to be felt in all my being. 2/ you need help along the path. PPR never wanted to discuss these matters, even in private meetings. Why ? he doesn’t have any experience about it ! The only ‘help’ that you get is some bliss out of ‘darshan’, and being involved in this group business. That’s not enough to proceed on a ‘spiritual’ path. Otherwise why not discuss these matters and experiences. It’s absolutely necessary if you want to go deeper inside. You can’t just rely on ‘grace’. It takes you nowhere. I’ve attended many many meetings with premies and instructors, with and without PPR. Questions on this are never answered. And most of the premies do have questions. I assume that’s why 90% of them leave after some time. As instructors, we were teached how not to answer these questions. With a lot of good reasons of course. When you have a deep experience inside, there is no problem sharing your understanding, as long as you don’t go beyond what you really know. PPR never discussed this. Why ? he does not know much about it ! Nor does he know how to handle people needing help : his only answer is ‘TRUST’. Fine. But that’s not enough. His father and his mahatmas did very likely help people in their practice. But he was too young and too inexperienced to recall any of this, and to know enough to be able to teach. He is the perfect example of an ignorant teaching what he doesn’t know. I must also say that a lot of these ‘instructors’, mahatmas, whatever, where simple jerks. It was difficult for me (and for some people I know) to admit that, and to cope with that. How can you ‘work’ with semi-bongos like most of them were (and still are), I’m sorry to say this. There is nothing bad or wrong in being a bongo or semi-bongo. Maybe I’m one of them. Who knows. What’s wrong is when a guy claiming he is a master has jerks as assistants. It took me 25 years and the help of a therapist to resign (not from my inner path). Exactly like the elephant and the blind people parable. He told that story so many time. There is a lot to understand in his favorite stories ! Like what he recently started to say about Van Gogh. He probably feels a bit like him : drunk, and nobody to appreciate what you do ! He should really think about it twice. Why 90% of the initiated people leave ? Because it stinks. It stinks when you are drunk. It stinks when you pretend. Even though you wear very costly perfumes (like PPR does). I can understand why : that PPR also has a subconscious. And he speaks loud enough to be understood. If you work in any company where the boss’s assistants are jerks, that makes you think I guess. If you are sane, I imagine you would resign. PPR is very likely a good pilot, thanks to the US Elan Vital Incorporated charity and all of us who helped him to own a 25 millions $ jet. But this ‘spiritual’ teacher is a big fraud. I feel being abused because I had a genuine interest in spirituality. This pseudo master has been misleading and abusing thousands of people genuinely interested in spirituality : that must cease. That’s all for today.
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Date: Fri, Dec 5, 1997 at 12:25:26 (EST)
Poster: Mili
Email:
To: Mr Ex
Subject: Re: BigM is Distasteful (Re: Tasteful and Distastful Post)
Message:
I thought a lot about this big controversial meditation business ! That’s important for me. I’ve spent 25 years of my life practicing meditation with what I thought was a master. What’s now clear to me is that I’ve probably spent much more time actually practicing meditation than Prem Rawat. Why ? He himself gave enough indications. The way he was initiated : he was very young, the session was very short and he never got any further indications from his master for a very practical reason : his master died ! He could have got help from ‘his’ mahatmas or his mother. Regarding his mother : he himself said many times that she did not understand much about ‘knowledge’, even in his father’s time, very likely because she never practiced herself. Maybe she did, but meditation is not an easy way and there is no indication that she had any insight. From what I remember from her talks, there was nothing ‘spiritual’ in them, she was only quoting maharaji, never saying anything about her experience. Why ? She had none, of course. Except when she would give ‘darshan’. I did attend some with her, sitting or standing next to her. The expression of devotion coming from these devotees was beautiful, but that never gives you an inner experience. Lots of famous singers experience this from their fans : it feels good, but that’s all about it. If you can live by this, fine, that’s very likely what the Rawat’s family does. And most of the people around them : attending darshan next to PPR is very likely the most they get as a ‘spiritual’ experience. They won’t object : I already discussed that with some of these guys. Regarding his mahatmas : some of these guys obviously had a deep experience. But it took them a lot of practice to get there, and they could help you in that field. I did spend a lot of time with some of these Indian guys/ladies. Some were jerks. Some were really near what you could expect from a master. But PPR never learned anything from them I guess. He just fired them because they were taller than him. And as he himself said so many times, you need a living master. He also said many times that ‘knowledge’ is not for kids, even not for teenagers, with some exceptions. He probably recalls what he went himself through! From what I know about the experience of ‘real’ enlightened souls and masters, it is not that easy to proceed on the inner path. You need guidance to be able to proceed inside (if that’s your purpose, I assume it is). In some rare instances, like Ramana Maharshi, you can proceed by yourself. But in that instance what the master says and the way he behaves is a clear reflection of his ‘spiritual’ path, he can clearly tell what happened to him. Prem Rawat never said anything about his experience. Prem Rawat often mentioned that he ‘realized knowledge’ after a short period of time. OK. Why not. I can admit that. I can also admit that he does not need to practice anymore, I read about quite a few examples of that type. But : 1/ meditation has nothing to do with sitting an hour and practicing 4 techniques for 15 minutes each. It takes much more. I’ve experienced that, and I don’t consider myself a realized soul. If you really want to go into it (otherwise why would you practice meditation), you shouldn’t care for time. The 1st technique takes you somewhere, when you are really into it you proceed to the 2nd technique, and so on. It takes quite a long time some days, and when you are into it, you don’t want to stop after 1 hour, even after 2 hours ! It’s so enjoyable that you just want to stay there. Someone has to tell you this. Otherwise you might never know. Of course it’s not PPR’s purpose. Just practice the 4 techniques, trust, and proceed in the business. It’s not going to take you anywhere (inside). By chance I wasn’t very satisfied with PPR’s knowledge right from the beginning, and I also started to practice Vipassana, and attended a course with Mr Goenka. That helped me a lot to go beyond all my tensions and to relax into meditation, feeling what is to be felt in all my being. 2/ you need help along the path. PPR never wanted to discuss these matters, even in private meetings. Why ? he doesn’t have any experience about it ! The only ‘help’ that you get is some bliss out of ‘darshan’, and being involved in this group business. That’s not enough to proceed on a ‘spiritual’ path. Otherwise why not discuss these matters and experiences. It’s absolutely necessary if you want to go deeper inside. You can’t just rely on ‘grace’. It takes you nowhere. I’ve attended many many meetings with premies and instructors, with and without PPR. Questions on this are never answered. And most of the premies do have questions. I assume that’s why 90% of them leave after some time. As instructors, we were teached how not to answer these questions. With a lot of good reasons of course. When you have a deep experience inside, there is no problem sharing your understanding, as long as you don’t go beyond what you really know. PPR never discussed this. Why ? he does not know much about it ! Nor does he know how to handle people needing help : his only answer is ‘TRUST’. Fine. But that’s not enough. His father and his mahatmas did very likely help people in their practice. But he was too young and too inexperienced to recall any of this, and to know enough to be able to teach. He is the perfect example of an ignorant teaching what he doesn’t know. I must also say that a lot of these ‘instructors’, mahatmas, whatever, where simple jerks. It was difficult for me (and for some people I know) to admit that, and to cope with that. How can you ‘work’ with semi-bongos like most of them were (and still are), I’m sorry to say this. There is nothing bad or wrong in being a bongo or semi-bongo. Maybe I’m one of them. Who knows. What’s wrong is when a guy claiming he is a master has jerks as assistants. It took me 25 years and the help of a therapist to resign (not from my inner path). Exactly like the elephant and the blind people parable. He told that story so many time. There is a lot to understand in his favorite stories ! Like what he recently started to say about Van Gogh. He probably feels a bit like him : drunk, and nobody to appreciate what you do ! He should really think about it twice. Why 90% of the initiated people leave ? Because it stinks. It stinks when you are drunk. It stinks when you pretend. Even though you wear very costly perfumes (like PPR does). I can understand why : that PPR also has a subconscious. And he speaks loud enough to be understood. If you work in any company where the boss’s assistants are jerks, that makes you think I guess. If you are sane, I imagine you would resign. PPR is very likely a good pilot, thanks to the US Elan Vital Incorporated charity and all of us who helped him to own a 25 millions $ jet. But this ‘spiritual’ teacher is a big fraud. I feel being abused because I had a genuine interest in spirituality. This pseudo master has been misleading and abusing thousands of people genuinely interested in spirituality : that must cease. That’s all for today. I'm sorry, but I don't get your point. Thousands of people, yourself included, have received Knowledge and meditated due to the efforts of Mr. PPR, as you call him. He continues his efforts doing nothing else but to inform others of the existence of this meditation. You admit that you have had pleasant experiences from it. Why would you want to him to cease doing what he is doing?
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Date: Fri, Dec 5, 1997 at 12:34:13 (EST)
Poster: David Simpkiss
Email: djulian@cix.compulink.co.uk
To: Mr Ex
Subject: Re: BigM is Distasteful (Re: Tasteful and Distastful Post)
Message:
Thank you, thank you, thank you Mr Ex. You answered a lot of my questions in your post and helped erase some of my confusion. Your insight is always greatly appreciated. David.
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Date: Fri, Dec 5, 1997 at 13:01:51 (EST)
Poster: Mr Ex
Email:
To: Mili
Subject: Re: BigM is Distasteful (Re: Tasteful and Distastful Post)
Message:
I feel really sorry for you, Mili, but I'm no therapist It took me quite some time, a lot of trouble and a lot of money to go beyond what was blocking my 'mind' to work properly, due to PPR's Indian brainwashing technique. therapy is one option to recover sanity and a proper working mind There are not that many alternatives. i'm really sorry, again. maybe PPR will tell one day how sorry he feels about what he did to so many naive people or sink in Cognac for ever That's an other alternative I'm also sorry for his family (who must very likely read this) They will survive, and be relieved I guess after some time, I hope .... anyway
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Date: Fri, Dec 5, 1997 at 14:27:19 (EST)
Poster: JW
Email:
To: Mr Ex
Subject: Re: BigM is Distasteful (Re: Tasteful and Distastful Post)
Message:
Speaking of his family, and it must be very weird for them, have you heard that Hansi isn't thrilled with the charade his dad is attempting to pull off? Someone posted some time ago that Hansi is not seen at programs and someone else posted that Hansi thinks his Dad is running a cult. Have you heard any of this? JW
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Date: Fri, Dec 5, 1997 at 15:18:12 (EST)
Poster: Mili
Email:
To: JW
Subject: Re: BigM is Distasteful (Re: Tasteful and Distastful Post)
Message:
Speaking of his family, and it must be very weird for them, have you heard that Hansi isn't thrilled with the charade his dad is attempting to pull off? Someone posted some time ago that Hansi is not seen at programs and someone else posted that Hansi thinks his Dad is running a cult. Have you heard any of this? JW Joe - you were the one who posted that to begin with. How can you lie and deceive people on purpose like this? What kind of a person are you? This is what happens to people when they leave the practice of Knowledge and renounce Maharaji as their spiritual master.
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Date: Fri, Dec 5, 1997 at 18:08:21 (EST)
Poster: Mr Ex
Email:
To: Mili
Subject: Re: BigM is Distasteful (Re: Tasteful and Distastful Post)
Message:
Mili ................. how can you disobey your beloved master's agya : premies should not post on Internet. Does this indicate that you don't practice enough? As a former instructor, I would suspect that. did you watch all the recent videos? I think there is something you missed, and that you might be on the wrong track. You'll end up like Confused JW .... I think that you should sing Arti twice tonight : 1 time before meditating for 2 1/2 hours, 1 time after practice. Everything will be so beautiful again afterwards. Don't worry : these poor guys are lost, you can't do anything for them. There are some people that will never be devoted to Maharaji. Nobody can do anything about it. Stay with Him, and may your life be full of love and devotion. That's the best Maharaji wishes for us. He doen't want us to be so involved in worldly matters that we loose the right perspective. Please take care of yourself. All my blessings are with you (ooooops that's too much)
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Date: Fri, Dec 5, 1997 at 19:08:47 (EST)
Poster: Mili
Email:
To: Mr Ex
Subject: Re: BigM is Distasteful (Re: Tasteful and Distastful Post)
Message:
Mili ................. how can you disobey your beloved master's agya : premies should not post on Internet. Does this indicate that you don't practice enough? As a former instructor, I would suspect that. did you watch all the recent videos? I think there is something you missed, and that you might be on the wrong track. You'll end up like Confused JW .... I think that you should sing Arti twice tonight : 1 time before meditating for 2 1/2 hours, 1 time after practice. Everything will be so beautiful again afterwards. Don't worry : these poor guys are lost, you can't do anything for them. There are some people that will never be devoted to Maharaji. Nobody can do anything about it. Stay with Him, and may your life be full of love and devotion. That's the best Maharaji wishes for us. He doen't want us to be so involved in worldly matters that we loose the right perspective. Please take care of yourself. All my blessings are with you (ooooops that's too much) You're so full of shit, Mr. Ex-initiator. Now I can see why Maharaji fired some of you guys.
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Date: Fri, Dec 5, 1997 at 19:10:10 (EST)
Poster: JW
Email:
To: Mili
Subject: Re: BigM is Distasteful (Re: Tasteful and Distastful Post)
Message:
Speaking of his family, and it must be very weird for them, have you heard that Hansi isn't thrilled with the charade his dad is attempting to pull off? Someone posted some time ago that Hansi is not seen at programs and someone else posted that Hansi thinks his Dad is running a cult. Have you heard any of this? JW Joe - you were the one who posted that to begin with. How can you lie and deceive people on purpose like this? What kind of a person are you? This is what happens to people when they leave the practice of Knowledge and renounce Maharaji as their spiritual master. Nope, you are dead wrong, Mili. I did NOT post that issue anytime. Someone ELSE posted it and I asked more about it. But thank you for your interest. Joe
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Date: Fri, Dec 5, 1997 at 19:25:44 (EST)
Poster: Katie
Email: petkat@mail.trib.net
To: Mili
Subject: Re: BigM is Distasteful (Re: Tasteful and Distastful Post)
Message:
Maharaji said that if one didn't practice knowledge, one's mind would become like a room filled with three tons of rotting vegetables. This scared me into staying with Maharaji for a good long time after I wanted to. Now apparently, those who don't practice knowledge are fated to become like Joe Whalen...Somehow, this just isn't as scary. (Sorry, Joe)
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Date: Fri, Dec 5, 1997 at 21:06:59 (EST)
Poster: Mili
Email:
To: JW
Subject: Re: BigM is Distasteful (Re: Tasteful and Distastful Post)
Message:
Speaking of his family, and it must be very weird for them, have you heard that Hansi isn't thrilled with the charade his dad is attempting to pull off? Someone posted some time ago that Hansi is not seen at programs and someone else posted that Hansi thinks his Dad is running a cult. Have you heard any of this? JW Joe - you were the one who posted that to begin with. How can you lie and deceive people on purpose like this? What kind of a person are you? This is what happens to people when they leave the practice of Knowledge and renounce Maharaji as their spiritual master. Nope, you are dead wrong, Mili. I did NOT post that issue anytime. Someone ELSE posted it and I asked more about it. But thank you for your interest. Joe O.K. sorry Joe, maybe it was Brian who said it - but it doesn't change my feelings of disgust with this morbid fascination that you have with M's personal life and his children. What's that got to do with anything? Is this what happens when you stop practicing Knowledge - you start poking your nose in your ex-Master's private life? What's so interesting about that? And do you really think Hansi is going to think that what his Granddad and his Dad were doing was unusual? Joe, the Knowledge is cool, and it's not a conspiracy story about a wicked cult, at all. We all know that you can walk in and out anytime - we've all done it, many times over. Nobody is a perfect premie, we are all ex-premies from time to time, and it's not a mindless surrender. - Mili
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Date: Sat, Dec 6, 1997 at 05:56:48 (EST)
Poster: Mili
Email:
To: Mr Ex
Subject: Re: BigM is Distasteful (Re: Tasteful and Distastful Post)
Message:
I feel really sorry for you, Mili, but I'm no therapist It took me quite some time, a lot of trouble and a lot of money to go beyond what was blocking my 'mind' to work properly, due to PPR's Indian brainwashing technique. therapy is one option to recover sanity and a proper working mind There are not that many alternatives. i'm really sorry, again. maybe PPR will tell one day how sorry he feels about what he did to so many naive people or sink in Cognac for ever That's an other alternative I'm also sorry for his family (who must very likely read this) They will survive, and be relieved I guess after some time, I hope .... anyway Aha! So it IS a case of xenophobia. This Indian guy came out of the blue, made you feel too good for words, and then left without asking anything in return. And you panicked - 'There MUST be a catch to it.' Well, look, according to the ex-premie site, this is the Radhaoswami tradition. These are classical yoga techniques. It is not brainwashing. This is a meditation that is taught in prenatal classes. And you are NOT obligated to go to the programmes. I guess I am not the person to tell you what to think or do - but I do feel free to tell you that it is really ugly to make up all sorts of lies and speculate about the personal life of a person whom you hardly know. How about being more critical about your own motives and getting your life together instead of blaming someone else for everything?
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Date: Mon, Dec 8, 1997 at 11:38:13 (EST)
Poster: JW
Email:
To: Mili
Subject: Re: BigM is Distasteful (Re: Tasteful and Distastful Post)
Message:
< O.K. sorry Joe, maybe it was Brian who said it - but it doesn't change my feelings of disgust with this morbid fascination that you have with M's personal life and his children. What's that got to do with anything? Is this what happens when you stop practicing Knowledge - you start poking your nose in your ex-Master's private life? What's so interesting about that? And do you really think Hansi is going to think that what his Granddad and his Dad were doing was unusual? Joe, the Knowledge is cool, and it's not a conspiracy story about a wicked cult, at all. We all know that you can walk in and out anytime - we've all done it, many times over. Nobody is a perfect premie, we are all ex-premies from time to time, and it's not a mindless surrender. - Mili Well, thank you for admitting that your accusation was a mistake, Mili, I think that's the first time I've heard you do that. Sounds like a positive development. I am not "fascinated", morbidly or otherwise, with M's personal life. But that doesn't mean that I don't think it should be of more than just passing interest for both premies and ex-premies. I, for one, think that what someone does in his or her personal life is an indication of how they might act in their "professional" life. I mean, if someone is supposed to be so moral and filled with love, why would he hurt his wife so badly by having an affair right under her nose? Doesn't sound very loving to me. You know, that righteous fundamendalist preacher, Jimmy Swaggart, had a similar problem when he was preaching chastity while visiting prostitutes. But then he got caught, and he was much more "public" than M is. In the end, he's still being a television evangelist after riding out the controversy. As to what Hansi thinks, I don't know. That's why I was asking the question. It is of interest, because people who live with M all the time may have a much different perspective than premies do. It can throw light on the question of who or what he is. Mili, I have never questioned your experience of knowledge and I take what you say about it at face value. And as I have said, you apparently had more brains than I did and ignored Maharaji when he demanded that we surrender our lives to him. So, it hasn't cost you much to be a premie and to practice knowledge. I do not, and never have, believed in any kind of "conspiracy theory" when it comes to Maharaji. I think he is what he is. On second thought, I think the only "cospiracy" is Maharaji trying to hide (especially from new people) his past and also some of the stuff he does currently (like give darshan and cheat on his wife). If people know that stuff and want to be involved with him anyway, that's up to them. By the way "mindless surrender" may not be the current manifestation of Maharaji's message, but I can certainly attest that it definitely used to be. Joe
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Date: Mon, Dec 8, 1997 at 15:42:19 (EST)
Poster: Brian
Email:
To: JW
Subject: Re: BigM is Distasteful (Re: Tasteful and Distastful Post)
Message:
Mili: O.K. sorry Joe, maybe it was Brian who said it. JW: Well, thank you for admitting that your accusation was a mistake, Mili, I think that's the first time I've heard you do that. Sounds like a positive development. You'll excuse me, JW, if I don't share your enthusiasm over Mili's development. A better admission would have been for him to admit that he didn't know what he was talking about. Mili, you are an idiot. You couldn't bother to look it up in the archives before you begin throwing around another mindless accusation again, could you? Were you perhaps confusing me with Jim? He's the one who also didn't say that premies should be exterminated, remember? I missed your apology to him. More Mili: And do you really think Hansi is going to think that what his Granddad and his Dad were doing was unusual? Not if you don't, Mili. Perhaps he thinks that the other kids in school also have Dads that fly around the world having their feet kissed. I'm sure he has great personal respect for the blissed-out premies who fawn over MJ as they wash the cars, and considers this to be normal adult behavior which television, movies, and the rest of the world simply refuse to acknowledge. He probably pranams when Dad walks into the kitchen while scratching his bare belly every morning. Unusual? Certainly not.
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Date: Thurs, Dec 4, 1997 at 02:07:12 (EST)
Poster: Annie
Email: aerily@aol.com
To: Everyone
Subject: BlahBlahBlahBlahBlah
Message:
To Joe Whalen in particular, and anyone else: For the purpose of beginning this new thread I will simply explain that blahblahblah is my way of finishing up what I have to say when I am tired of hearing myself talk. It was not aimed at you, and I am sorry if I gave you that impression.
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Date: Thurs, Dec 4, 1997 at 03:32:18 (EST)
Poster: annie
Email: aerily@aol.com
To: burke
Subject: To BBurke; and memories of Jim (Re: BlahBlahBlahBlahBlah)
Message:
Dear bburke: My daughters are 15, 12, 11. We have an entirely female household and it is difficult not to see boys and men as a fascinating but strange other species altogether; though we love them we try to keep them in perspective. I did tell them all, early on, my opinion that boys are stronger, but girls are smarter. I know this is a terrible generalization; but they take all I say with a grain of salt anyway, for they know me to be half insane, at least. I enjoy your droll humor, very much, and many of your thoughts expressed here. You keep referring to what I called my "magian sense" but I am not quite sure what your question is, or if you have one, or if you just like that word. Regarding the sarcasm, etc. -- generally it doesn't turn me on, in any form, even among good friends. Each person is different -- but there are many who are vulnerable, and even if it's funny it always seems pretty snarky. Jim had many a field day with me, once upon a time; for I was ultra sincere, and open to his criticisms, examining myself for every fault he pointed out. He was fond of doing this, and I stumbled many, many times because of his influence. He might be surprised to know that I felt quite cruelly persecuted by him, though we were friends, sort of. I always felt he liked me and wanted me, and manifested it by trying to hurt, ridicule, humiliate me. Then one day I had a great moment, riding in a car, with Jim and Gary Ockenden; I saw Jim launching the same sarcastic attacks on Gary that he always did to me, which pained me greatly back then; and I saw Gary respond to Jim as if he was a cute little doggie, yapping. Thus I was set free of the strange hold Jim had over my mind. Gary always inspired me as someone who had a solid and comfortable sense of himself. Both of them left strong impressions on me, Jim for different reasons; he and I also sang and played music together and he liked to come out of the ashram shower all hot and wearing only a small towel and look at me with huge beautiful doggie eyes as if... but no, never mind... anyway he never caught me, though he was extremely sexy; probably because he was so rude, or because I just was never in the mood.
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Date: Thurs, Dec 4, 1997 at 13:53:41 (EST)
Poster: JW
Email:
To: annie
Subject: Re: To BBurke; and memories of Jim (Re: BlahBlahBlahBlahBlah)
Message:
Dear bburke: My daughters are 15, 12, 11. We have an entirely female household and it is difficult not to see boys and men as a fascinating but strange other species altogether; though we love them we try to keep them in perspective. I did tell them all, early on, my opinion that boys are stronger, but girls are smarter. I know this is a terrible generalization; but they take all I say with a grain of salt anyway, for they know me to be half insane, at least. I enjoy your droll humor, very much, and many of your thoughts expressed here. You keep referring to what I called my 'magian sense' but I am not quite sure what your question is, or if you have one, or if you just like that word. Regarding the sarcasm, etc. -- generally it doesn't turn me on, in any form, even among good friends. Each person is different -- but there are many who are vulnerable, and even if it's funny it always seems pretty snarky. Jim had many a field day with me, once upon a time; for I was ultra sincere, and open to his criticisms, examining myself for every fault he pointed out. He was fond of doing this, and I stumbled many, many times because of his influence. He might be surprised to know that I felt quite cruelly persecuted by him, though we were friends, sort of. I always felt he liked me and wanted me, and manifested it by trying to hurt, ridicule, humiliate me. Then one day I had a great moment, riding in a car, with Jim and Gary Ockenden; I saw Jim launching the same sarcastic attacks on Gary that he always did to me, which pained me greatly back then; and I saw Gary respond to Jim as if he was a cute little doggie, yapping. Thus I was set free of the strange hold Jim had over my mind. Gary always inspired me as someone who had a solid and comfortable sense of himself. Both of them left strong impressions on me, Jim for different reasons; he and I also sang and played music together and he liked to come out of the ashram shower all hot and wearing only a small towel and look at me with huge beautiful doggie eyes as if... but no, never mind... anyway he never caught me, though he was extremely sexy; probably because he was so rude, or because I just was never in the mood. I probably shouldn't touch this with a ten-foot pole, and I guess I have a hard time understanding why it is relevent, but since you brought up the subject, are you talking about the same Jim as posts here? If so, I would like to know more about how sexy he was. How small WAS that towel? Did it cover everything? Did the water on his skin from the shower flow sensuously over his well-defined pecs and abs? Is that what was so "sexy?" Why else did you find Jim so sexy? Did you enjoy it and find it sexy when he belittled you? Did you find it sexy when Jim had a "strange hold over [your] mind? Do "doggie eyes" ever get you "in the mood?" And "in the mood" for what? -- ice cream? When you say Jim never "caught you," is that because you could run faster than he could? To be fair to Jim, I'm sure that "small" towel impeded his ability to run as fast as he could otherwise. Details, details, please. BTW -- Gary Ockenden often inspired me too, and I agree he is a "solid" person. Maybe that's why he left Maharaji and his cult years ago and considers Maharaji "a distant part of his past." Thanks also for your apology re the BLAHBLAH reference. Joe
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Date: Thurs, Dec 4, 1997 at 14:12:51 (EST)
Poster: JW
Email:
To: annie
Subject: Re: To BBurke; and memories of Jim (Re: BlahBlahBlahBlahBlah)
Message:
One additional point. If you weren't living in M's cult, trying sincerely to dedicate yourself to him, do you really think you would have been as vunerable to attacks by other premies like Jim? Don't you think that living in such a sick and unnatural environment like the ashram where you were trying to surrender completely and everything that was happening to you was in Maharaji's control and "perfect" had a something to do to the pain and persecution you felt coming from Jim? In my experience, the ashram made a lot of premies, especially the most sincere and open ones, vulnerable to the attacks of a lot of despicable people, in the guise of other premies, housefathers, mahatmas, initiators, etc. [I'm not saying Jim is or was despicable, because I don't know.] It also turned a lot of otherwise very nice people into psychological persecuters, when they were given power over these very vulnerable ashram residents. [Like some ccs, mahatmas, initiators, etc.] And M, far from actually taking care of these people, like we believed he was, never seemed to give a shit one way or the other about them, either then or now. Joe
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Date: Thurs, Dec 4, 1997 at 15:03:38 (EST)
Poster: Katie
Email: petkat@mail.trib.net
To: JW
Subject: You Go, Boy (Re: BlahBlahBlahBlahBlah)
Message:
Since you brought up the subject, are you talking about the same Jim as posts here? If so, I would like to know more about how sexy he was. How small WAS that towel? Did it cover everything? Did the water on his skin from the shower flow sensuously over his well-defined pecs and abs? Is that what was so 'sexy?' Why else did you find Jim so sexy? Did you enjoy it and find it sexy when he belittled you? Did you find it sexy when Jim had a 'strange hold over [your] mind? Do 'doggie eyes' ever get you 'in the mood?' And 'in the mood' for what? -- ice cream? When you say Jim never 'caught you,' is that because you could run faster than he could? To be fair to Jim, I'm sure that 'small' towel impeded his ability to run as fast as he could otherwise. Details, details, please. Wow, what a description of Jim. You have a very active imagination, Joe! In fairness to Annie, I have seen a picture of Jim and he is quite good-looking. Although he's not the classically handsome Greek god type like JW, of course, he's still very cute.
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Date: Fri, Dec 5, 1997 at 01:47:49 (EST)
Poster: Deena
Email: deena@cableregina,com
To: Annie please read this?
Subject: Annie why doesn't your link work?Re: BlahBlahBlahBlahBlah (Re: BlahBlahBlahBlahBlah)
Message:
To Joe Whalen in particular, and anyone else: For the purpose of beginning this new thread I will simply explain that blahblahblah is my way of finishing up what I have to say when I am tired of hearing myself talk. It was not aimed at you, and I am sorry if I gave you that impression. Annie I've tried to access you link but it doesn't work. Has anyone else suceeded?
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Date: Fri, Dec 5, 1997 at 07:23:56 (EST)
Poster: Bobby
Email:
To: Deena
Subject: Re: Annie why doesn't your link work?BlahBlahBlahBlahBlah (Re: BlahBlahBlahBlahBlah)
Message:
Sure, I accessed Annie's link. It's on a "personals" service and gives some pics and personal information about Annie. Neato. I like seeing pics of who shows up here. I'm not really into all this anonymous stuff. What are people trying to hide or protect?
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Date: Fri, Dec 5, 1997 at 11:12:51 (EST)
Poster: Deena Tasteful
Email: deena@cableregina.com
To: Bobby
Subject: Re: Annie why doesn't your link work?BlahBlahBlahBlahBlah (Re: BlahBlahBlahBlahBlah)
Message:
Sure, I accessed Annie's link. It's on a 'personals' service and gives some pics and personal information about Annie. Neato. I like seeing pics of who shows up here. I'm not really into all this anonymous stuff. What are people trying to hide or protect? When I click on the link it doesn't work? Wonder why? I wouldn't want anyone to know what I look like and especially about who I really am because I fear the reprisals of fanatical premies. I've said things that anger premies that want to protect Maharaji. Unlike Jim I don't feel like I've had a very full life. I want to enjoy the rest of my life, especially with my son and husband, and make up for the time I was detached from this very brief life that I now appreciate as all there is. Bobby, you do know that I am not religious or spiritual in any way any longer, although I don't call myself agnostic or atheist because labels don't appeal to me right now. When people ask I just say I'm ? and very happy this way.
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Date: Fri, Dec 5, 1997 at 11:43:29 (EST)
Poster: Bobby
Email:
To: Deena Tasteful
Subject: Re: Annie why doesn't your link work?BlahBlahBlahBlahBlah (Re: BlahBlahBlahBlahBlah)
Message:
I respect your decision Deena. Over the years I've grown to love humans and the poignancy of being in a human body! I used to hate my body. I was much more resentful of people for the pain I went through while an adolescent. I recognize that I replaced my "normal" ego with a "spiritual ego". Folks have there own ideas, opinions and other crap with "spirituality" just like with everything else. However I still believe Spirit is very real and I walk my own path. A very beautiful image for me is from the movie "Places in the Heart". The film is about the struggles of a strong woman and her black helper/friend in the deep south. The film includes a lot of racist stuff, including the KKK. The end of the movie takes place in a church. Bread and wine is passed from person to person. Everything seems "normal" until the cup gets to the back few rows. Then we recognize the cup being passed with the hateful ones and even ones who are dead. All of us are here as part of this grand drama called life. This image of all of us sitting together in Peace and Love is very powerful to me. Beyond the dramas, beyond the sufferings and squabbles. The places of the heart. I'd still like to see your picture. Maybe some day.
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