Ex-Premie.Org

Forum II Archive # 2

From: Dec 9, 1997

To: Dec 30, 1997

Page: 5 Of: 5


hallelujah chorus -:- Re: Premie.com -:- Sat, Dec 13, 1997 at 04:18:49 (EST)

David Simpkiss -:- A good site for all -:- Sat, Dec 13, 1997 at 01:53:37 (EST)
___Mike -:- Re: A good site for all -:- Sat, Dec 13, 1997 at 10:16:37 (EST)

JW -:- Premie.com -:- Fri, Dec 12, 1997 at 12:48:47 (EST)
___Johnny Cavad -:- Re: Premie.com -:- Fri, Dec 12, 1997 at 17:52:43 (EST)
___Katie -:- Re: Premie.com -:- Fri, Dec 12, 1997 at 18:33:23 (EST)
___Mili -:- Re: Premie.com -:- Sat, Dec 13, 1997 at 03:36:02 (EST)
___Brian -:- Re: Premie.com -:- Sat, Dec 13, 1997 at 10:04:03 (EST)
___Bobby -:- Re: Premie.com -:- Sat, Dec 13, 1997 at 10:21:49 (EST)
___JW -:- Re: Premie.com -:- Sat, Dec 13, 1997 at 21:53:01 (EST)

ds -:- lights back on -:- Fri, Dec 12, 1997 at 10:55:44 (EST)
___ds -:- Re: lights back on -:- Fri, Dec 12, 1997 at 11:09:55 (EST)
___Katie -:- Re: lights back on -:- Fri, Dec 12, 1997 at 11:34:04 (EST)
___sticker -:- fun -:- Fri, Dec 12, 1997 at 16:35:24 (EST)
___david -:- Re: lights back on -:- Fri, Dec 12, 1997 at 19:04:35 (EST)
___CD -:- Re: lights back on -:- Sat, Dec 13, 1997 at 17:42:11 (EST)
___Katie -:- Re: lights back on -:- Sat, Dec 13, 1997 at 18:04:54 (EST)

David Simpkiss -:- Putting it into perspective -:- Thurs, Dec 11, 1997 at 21:03:39 (EST)
___Mili -:- Re: Putting it into perspective -:- Fri, Dec 12, 1997 at 08:53:36 (EST)
___David Simpkiss -:- Re: Putting it into perspective -:- Fri, Dec 12, 1997 at 09:19:30 (EST)
___John K. -:- Re: Putting it into perspective -:- Fri, Dec 12, 1997 at 10:35:20 (EST)
___Mr Ex -:- Re: Putting it into perspective -:- Fri, Dec 12, 1997 at 10:47:50 (EST)
___Katie -:- Mishler redux -:- Fri, Dec 12, 1997 at 10:57:19 (EST)
___John K. -:- Re: Mishler redux -:- Fri, Dec 12, 1997 at 11:52:23 (EST)
___JW -:- Re: Putting it into perspective -:- Fri, Dec 12, 1997 at 12:03:21 (EST)
___Bobby -:- Re: Mishler redux -:- Fri, Dec 12, 1997 at 12:10:53 (EST)
___John K. -:- Re: Mishler redux -:- Fri, Dec 12, 1997 at 13:19:32 (EST)
___John K. -:- Re: Putting it into perspective -:- Fri, Dec 12, 1997 at 14:05:41 (EST)
___Sir David -:- Re: Mishler redux -:- Fri, Dec 12, 1997 at 14:25:10 (EST)
___bobby -:- Re: Putting it into perspective -:- Fri, Dec 12, 1997 at 15:04:50 (EST)
___God -:- Re: Putting it into perspective -:- Fri, Dec 12, 1997 at 15:31:10 (EST)
___john k. -:- Re: Putting it into perspective -:- Fri, Dec 12, 1997 at 16:01:59 (EST)
___Katie -:- Re: Putting it into perspective -:- Fri, Dec 12, 1997 at 16:06:38 (EST)
___John K. -:- Re: Putting it into perspective -:- Fri, Dec 12, 1997 at 16:20:52 (EST)
___Katie (off topic, and so was John) -:- Re: Putting it into perspective -:- Fri, Dec 12, 1997 at 17:29:20 (EST)
___Sir David -:- Re: Putting it into perspective -:- Fri, Dec 12, 1997 at 19:09:45 (EST)
___CD -:- Re: Putting it into perspective -:- Fri, Dec 12, 1997 at 22:05:21 (EST)
___op -:- Re: test -:- Sat, Dec 13, 1997 at 00:05:08 (EST)
___Butchoover -:- Re: Putting it into perspective -:- Sat, Dec 13, 1997 at 00:17:16 (EST)
___op -:- Re: test -:- Sat, Dec 13, 1997 at 00:19:09 (EST)
___Butchoover -:- Re: Mishler redux -:- Sat, Dec 13, 1997 at 01:01:02 (EST)
___DVD -:- Re: Putting it into perspective -:- Sat, Dec 13, 1997 at 01:47:29 (EST)
___bill patterson and the -:- fifth technique -:- Sat, Dec 13, 1997 at 02:20:44 (EST)
___LA -:- LADY -:- Sat, Dec 13, 1997 at 02:29:24 (EST)
___Katie -:- the CD Te Ching -:- Sat, Dec 13, 1997 at 03:01:15 (EST)
___Katie -:- Re: Mishler redux -:- Sat, Dec 13, 1997 at 03:12:48 (EST)
___b -:- Re: the CD Te Ching -:- Sat, Dec 13, 1997 at 03:57:48 (EST)
___Mr Ex -:- Re: test -:- Sat, Dec 13, 1997 at 04:20:59 (EST)
___Mili -:- Re: Mishler redux -:- Sat, Dec 13, 1997 at 07:33:49 (EST)
___Brian -:- Re: Mishler redux -:- Sat, Dec 13, 1997 at 10:29:45 (EST)
___Bobby -:- Re: Mishler redux -:- Sat, Dec 13, 1997 at 10:39:20 (EST)
___Brian -:- Re: test -:- Sat, Dec 13, 1997 at 10:43:34 (EST)
___Brian -:- Re: Mishler redux -:- Sat, Dec 13, 1997 at 10:59:03 (EST)
___Katie -:- Re: the CD Te Ching -:- Sat, Dec 13, 1997 at 11:23:02 (EST)
___Katie -:- Re: Mishler redux -:- Sat, Dec 13, 1997 at 11:35:39 (EST)
___Sir David -:- Re: fifth technique -:- Sat, Dec 13, 1997 at 11:40:05 (EST)
___Bobby -:- Re: Mishler redux -:- Sat, Dec 13, 1997 at 11:45:49 (EST)
___Katie -:- Re: Mishler redux -:- Sat, Dec 13, 1997 at 11:50:49 (EST)
___Bobby -:- Re: Mishler redux -:- Sat, Dec 13, 1997 at 11:59:30 (EST)
___Mili -:- Re: Mishler redux -:- Sat, Dec 13, 1997 at 12:11:07 (EST)
___Katie -:- Re: Mishler redux -:- Sat, Dec 13, 1997 at 12:44:43 (EST)
___CD -:- Re: Mishler redux -:- Sat, Dec 13, 1997 at 16:56:13 (EST)
___CD -:- Re: Putting it into perspective -:- Sat, Dec 13, 1997 at 17:26:00 (EST)
___op -:- Re: Mishler redux -:- Sat, Dec 13, 1997 at 21:32:24 (EST)
___op -:- Re: test -:- Sat, Dec 13, 1997 at 21:39:16 (EST)
___JW -:- Re: Putting it into perspective -:- Sat, Dec 13, 1997 at 22:24:21 (EST)
___Brian -:- Re: Mishler redux -:- Sat, Dec 13, 1997 at 23:04:17 (EST)
___op -:- Re: Mishler redux -:- Sun, Dec 14, 1997 at 02:14:33 (EST)
___967446345 -:- Re: Mishler redux -:- Sun, Dec 14, 1997 at 04:37:22 (EST)
___check on me? -:- or beat me up. -:- Sun, Dec 14, 1997 at 09:37:41 (EST)
___Katie -:- Re: Mishler redux -:- Sun, Dec 14, 1997 at 10:05:47 (EST)
___Brian -:- Re: Mishler redux -:- Sun, Dec 14, 1997 at 10:19:26 (EST)
___Katie -:- Re: Mishler redux -:- Sun, Dec 14, 1997 at 10:38:03 (EST)
___Brian -:- Re: Mishler redux -:- Sun, Dec 14, 1997 at 13:55:02 (EST)
___JW -:- Re: Mishler redux -:- Sun, Dec 14, 1997 at 17:48:12 (EST)
___JW -:- Re: Mishler redux -:- Sun, Dec 14, 1997 at 17:50:59 (EST)
___op -:- Re: or beat me up. -:- Sun, Dec 14, 1997 at 17:51:04 (EST)
___op -:- Re: Mishler redux -:- Sun, Dec 14, 1997 at 18:04:58 (EST)
___op -:- Re: Mishler redux -:- Sun, Dec 14, 1997 at 18:10:21 (EST)
___Katie -:- Re: Mishler redux -:- Sun, Dec 14, 1997 at 18:14:49 (EST)
___Katie -:- Re: Mishler redux -:- Sun, Dec 14, 1997 at 18:21:41 (EST)
___CD -:- beef bill up. -:- Sun, Dec 14, 1997 at 21:34:23 (EST)
___JW -:- Re: Mishler redux -:- Sun, Dec 14, 1997 at 22:30:21 (EST)
___Christ-opher -:- beef bill up. -:- Sun, Dec 14, 1997 at 22:48:10 (EST)
___90 mph -:- 180 degrees -:- Mon, Dec 15, 1997 at 00:29:58 (EST)
___CD -:- Re: 180 degrees -:- Mon, Dec 15, 1997 at 23:56:22 (EST)
___OOPS -:- OP you there? -:- Tues, Dec 16, 1997 at 01:15:27 (EST)
___DVD -:- TO CD -:- Tues, Dec 16, 1997 at 01:18:54 (EST)

WHO? -:- A new Webmaster.... -:- Thurs, Dec 11, 1997 at 18:01:10 (EST)
___JW TO WHO -:- Re: A new Webmaster.... -:- Thurs, Dec 11, 1997 at 19:32:19 (EST)
___middleman -:- Re: A new Webmaster.... -:- Thurs, Dec 11, 1997 at 21:00:44 (EST)
___Bobby -:- Re: A new Webmaster.... -:- Thurs, Dec 11, 1997 at 21:08:03 (EST)
___Sir David -:- Re: A new Webmaster.... -:- Thurs, Dec 11, 1997 at 21:24:32 (EST)
___Katie -:- Re: A new Webmaster.... -:- Thurs, Dec 11, 1997 at 21:58:05 (EST)
___can we keep just the forum? -:- Bing the page back later? -:- Fri, Dec 12, 1997 at 07:50:45 (EST)
___JW -:- Re: A new Webmaster.... -:- Fri, Dec 12, 1997 at 11:53:18 (EST)
___Butchoover -:- Re: A new Webmaster.... -:- Sat, Dec 13, 1997 at 00:44:33 (EST)
___JW -:- Re: A new Webmaster.... -:- Sat, Dec 13, 1997 at 22:41:01 (EST)

JW -:- Archives Digest -:- Thurs, Dec 11, 1997 at 17:09:28 (EST)
___David -:- Re: Message to Anon. -:- Thurs, Dec 11, 1997 at 18:20:20 (EST)
___JW -:- Re: Message to Anon. -:- Thurs, Dec 11, 1997 at 19:29:36 (EST)
___Katie -:- Re: Message to Anon. -:- Thurs, Dec 11, 1997 at 19:48:24 (EST)

bftb -:- As yet unexplained(?) -:- Thurs, Dec 11, 1997 at 14:32:50 (EST)
___bobby -:- Re: As yet unexplained(?) -:- Thurs, Dec 11, 1997 at 15:27:43 (EST)
___Sir David -:- Re: As yet unexplained(?) -:- Thurs, Dec 11, 1997 at 16:05:55 (EST)
___JW -:- Re: As yet unexplained(?) -:- Thurs, Dec 11, 1997 at 18:15:19 (EST)
___Michael -:- Re: As yet unexplained(?) -:- Fri, Dec 12, 1997 at 00:15:16 (EST)
___I have input anyway -:- Re: who asked you? -:- Fri, Dec 12, 1997 at 23:49:37 (EST)
___ignore the last message -:- Re: who asked you? -:- Fri, Dec 12, 1997 at 23:53:10 (EST)
___Mili -:- Re: Dream -:- Sat, Dec 13, 1997 at 03:41:48 (EST)
___premies just pass this one by. -:- More blabber from the burke -:- Sat, Dec 13, 1997 at 03:55:36 (EST)
___Don't read the above post, -:- this one is in the right type -:- Sat, Dec 13, 1997 at 07:54:26 (EST)
___Katie -:- Re: As yet unexplained(?) -:- Sat, Dec 13, 1997 at 18:24:17 (EST)

David -:- Who put out the lights? -:- Thurs, Dec 11, 1997 at 10:59:18 (EST)
___David -:- Re: Who put out the lights? -:- Thurs, Dec 11, 1997 at 11:03:59 (EST)
___David -:- Re: Paradise to the rescue? -:- Thurs, Dec 11, 1997 at 11:19:54 (EST)
___ds -:- Re: There is an alternative... -:- Thurs, Dec 11, 1997 at 12:15:59 (EST)
___ds -:- Re: There is an alternative... -:- Thurs, Dec 11, 1997 at 15:05:31 (EST)

David -:- Bye bye blondie -:- Thurs, Dec 11, 1997 at 10:32:34 (EST)
___Katie -:- Re: Bye bye blondie -:- Thurs, Dec 11, 1997 at 11:21:02 (EST)
___David -:- Re: Bye bye blondie -:- Thurs, Dec 11, 1997 at 12:17:49 (EST)
___David -:- Re: Bye bye blondie -:- Thurs, Dec 11, 1997 at 12:17:58 (EST)
___ds -:- Re: Bye bye blondie -:- Thurs, Dec 11, 1997 at 12:19:24 (EST)

Anon -:- What has Adrian Mole got to do with -:- Thurs, Dec 11, 1997 at 05:59:23 (EST)
___Anon! Please post once in a while -:- I have missed you -:- Thurs, Dec 11, 1997 at 06:51:18 (EST)
___Katie -:- Re: What has Adrian Mole got to do with -:- Thurs, Dec 11, 1997 at 09:40:53 (EST)
___Mind Police -:- Re: What has Adrian Mole got to do with -:- Thurs, Dec 11, 1997 at 11:00:18 (EST)
___Sir David -:- Re: What has Adrian Mole got to do with -:- Thurs, Dec 11, 1997 at 11:43:43 (EST)
___Anon -:- Re: What has Adrian Mole got to do with -:- Thurs, Dec 11, 1997 at 11:48:17 (EST)
___Katie -:- Re: What has Adrian Mole got to do with -:- Thurs, Dec 11, 1997 at 12:23:07 (EST)
___John K. -:- Re: What has Adrian Mole got to do with -:- Thurs, Dec 11, 1997 at 12:47:46 (EST)

David Simpkiss -:- From me to you Maharaji -:- Thurs, Dec 11, 1997 at 05:25:49 (EST)
___Mr Ex -:- Re: From me to you Maharaji -:- Thurs, Dec 11, 1997 at 05:51:40 (EST)
___X -:- Re: From me to you Maharaji -:- Thurs, Dec 11, 1997 at 06:35:55 (EST)
___Brian -:- Re: From me to you Maharaji -:- Thurs, Dec 11, 1997 at 06:52:37 (EST)
___Brian -:- Re: From me to you Maharaji -:- Thurs, Dec 11, 1997 at 07:04:43 (EST)
___Hunter S. Thompson -:- From me to you Maharaji -:- Thurs, Dec 11, 1997 at 10:09:30 (EST)
___Doctor Dastardly -:- Re: From me to you Maharaji -:- Thurs, Dec 11, 1997 at 10:20:33 (EST)
___Mr Ex, confused ? -:- Re: From me to you Maharaji -:- Thurs, Dec 11, 1997 at 11:04:20 (EST)
___Monsieur Technician -:- Re: From me to you Maharaji -:- Thurs, Dec 11, 1997 at 12:06:25 (EST)
___Sir David -:- Re: From me to you Maharaji -:- Thurs, Dec 11, 1997 at 12:41:01 (EST)
___Katie - off topic (sort of) -:- Re: From me to you Maharaji -:- Thurs, Dec 11, 1997 at 23:52:53 (EST)

Krishna -:- throws his shield -:- Wed, Dec 10, 1997 at 23:35:48 (EST)
___Birthday Boy -:- Fun in the Sun -:- Thurs, Dec 11, 1997 at 00:31:27 (EST)
___He came to the forum -:- He said what he did -:- Thurs, Dec 11, 1997 at 01:34:27 (EST)
___Katie -:- Re: He said what he did -:- Thurs, Dec 11, 1997 at 01:44:30 (EST)
___Snowy Morning -:- what a show -:- Thurs, Dec 11, 1997 at 06:33:50 (EST)
___Katie -:- Re: what a show -:- Thurs, Dec 11, 1997 at 10:00:11 (EST)
___more -:- snow -:- Fri, Dec 12, 1997 at 07:46:53 (EST)
___Katie -:- Re: snow -:- Fri, Dec 12, 1997 at 08:53:11 (EST)
___el nino -:- snow -:- Fri, Dec 12, 1997 at 16:45:22 (EST)
___bburke -:- Re: snow -:- Fri, Dec 12, 1997 at 18:51:05 (EST)
___Katie -:- Re: snow -:- Fri, Dec 12, 1997 at 18:53:30 (EST)

Katie -:- Which page are we on here? -:- Wed, Dec 10, 1997 at 21:17:07 (EST)
___David Simpkiss -:- Re: Which page are we on here? -:- Wed, Dec 10, 1997 at 21:21:12 (EST)
___David Simpkiss -:- Re: Which page are we on here? -:- Wed, Dec 10, 1997 at 21:22:22 (EST)
___Katie -:- Re: Which page are we on here? -:- Wed, Dec 10, 1997 at 21:23:59 (EST)
___Katie -:- Re: Which page are we on here? -:- Wed, Dec 10, 1997 at 21:27:42 (EST)
___Mr. Organization -:- Re: Which page are we on here? -:- Wed, Dec 10, 1997 at 21:29:11 (EST)
___Blarney Fife -:- Re: Which page are we on here? -:- Wed, Dec 10, 1997 at 21:31:47 (EST)
___Katie -:- Re: Which page are we on here? -:- Wed, Dec 10, 1997 at 21:33:01 (EST)
___Katie -:- Re: Which page are we on here? -:- Wed, Dec 10, 1997 at 21:35:23 (EST)
___Bobby -:- Re: Which page are we on here? -:- Wed, Dec 10, 1997 at 21:39:27 (EST)
___Katie -:- Re: Which page are we on here? -:- Wed, Dec 10, 1997 at 21:43:59 (EST)
___Mike -:- Re: Which page are we on here? -:- Wed, Dec 10, 1997 at 21:45:34 (EST)
___Katie -:- Re: Which page are we on here? -:- Wed, Dec 10, 1997 at 21:52:23 (EST)
___tomorrow never nose -:- where are we now? -:- Wed, Dec 10, 1997 at 22:05:02 (EST)
___Me -:- Re: where are we now? -:- Wed, Dec 10, 1997 at 22:53:28 (EST)
___Sir David -:- Re: Which page are we on here? -:- Wed, Dec 10, 1997 at 23:11:05 (EST)
___Sir David -:- Re: Which page are we on here? -:- Wed, Dec 10, 1997 at 23:19:18 (EST)
___Katie -:- Re: Which page are we on here? -:- Wed, Dec 10, 1997 at 23:34:36 (EST)
___Mike -:- Re: Which page are we on here? -:- Thurs, Dec 11, 1997 at 11:05:15 (EST)
___Katie -:- Another online bookstore (slightly off topic) -:- Fri, Dec 12, 1997 at 08:46:26 (EST)

Johnny Cavad -:- There's No Such Thing as Santa -:- Wed, Dec 10, 1997 at 20:09:50 (EST)
___S -:- Re: There's No Such Thing as Santa -:- Wed, Dec 10, 1997 at 21:26:19 (EST)
___Mike -:- Re: There's No Such Thing as Santa -:- Wed, Dec 10, 1997 at 21:42:46 (EST)
___joking smoker -:- Re: There's No Such Thing as Santa -:- Wed, Dec 10, 1997 at 21:56:27 (EST)
___S -:- Re: There's No Such Thing as Santa -:- Thurs, Dec 11, 1997 at 01:41:41 (EST)
___Warning: -:- Above post can bomb your computer -:- Thurs, Dec 11, 1997 at 11:39:57 (EST)
___Correction: -:- "joking smoker" Is the bomb -:- Thurs, Dec 11, 1997 at 11:42:33 (EST)
___joking smoker -:- Don't you think the joker larfs at you!?! -:- Thurs, Dec 11, 1997 at 12:05:32 (EST)
___Your friend -:- Trust the joker -:- Thurs, Dec 11, 1997 at 12:22:02 (EST)
___Joanne -:- Re: There's No Such Thing as Santa -:- Thurs, Dec 11, 1997 at 12:32:00 (EST)
___S -:- Re: There's No Such Thing as Santa -:- Thurs, Dec 11, 1997 at 23:38:50 (EST)
___Brian -:- Re: There's No Such Thing as Santa -:- Fri, Dec 12, 1997 at 07:22:11 (EST)

Mr Ex -:- Let's have some fun -:- Wed, Dec 10, 1997 at 05:47:37 (EST)
___John K. -:- Re: Let's have some fun -:- Wed, Dec 10, 1997 at 13:46:49 (EST)
___Mike -:- Re: Let's have some fun -:- Wed, Dec 10, 1997 at 14:04:50 (EST)

Mr Ex -:- Message from Switzerland -:- Wed, Dec 10, 1997 at 04:42:28 (EST)
___Mr Ex -:- Re: Message from Switzerland -:- Wed, Dec 10, 1997 at 04:43:47 (EST)
___Now Exsure -:- Re: Message from Switzerland -:- Thurs, Dec 11, 1997 at 02:34:08 (EST)

Bobby -:- New start? -:- Tues, Dec 9, 1997 at 18:52:13 (EST)
___Katie -:- Re: New start? -:- Tues, Dec 9, 1997 at 19:09:13 (EST)
___Bobby -:- Re: New start? -:- Tues, Dec 9, 1997 at 19:21:54 (EST)
___Katie -:- Re: New start? -:- Tues, Dec 9, 1997 at 19:30:09 (EST)
___Bobby -:- Re: New start? -:- Tues, Dec 9, 1997 at 19:36:58 (EST)
___Katie -:- Re: New start? -:- Tues, Dec 9, 1997 at 20:22:00 (EST)
___Mr Ex -:- Re: New start? -:- Wed, Dec 10, 1997 at 03:21:44 (EST)
___Katie -:- Re: New start? -:- Wed, Dec 10, 1997 at 09:15:02 (EST)
___Mr Ex -:- Re: New start? -:- Wed, Dec 10, 1997 at 12:26:48 (EST)
___Rick -:- Re: New start? -:- Wed, Dec 10, 1997 at 12:41:33 (EST)
___Mr Ex -:- Re: New start? -:- Wed, Dec 10, 1997 at 12:42:49 (EST)
___Bobby -:- Re: New start? -:- Wed, Dec 10, 1997 at 13:27:41 (EST)
___David Simpkiss -:- Re: New start? -:- Wed, Dec 10, 1997 at 13:44:28 (EST)
___Bobby -:- Re: New start? -:- Wed, Dec 10, 1997 at 13:45:49 (EST)
___Bobby -:- Re: New start? -:- Wed, Dec 10, 1997 at 13:47:25 (EST)
___David Simpkiss -:- Re: New start? -:- Wed, Dec 10, 1997 at 19:59:54 (EST)
___Bobby -:- Re: New start? -:- Wed, Dec 10, 1997 at 20:21:50 (EST)
___Katie -:- Trouble in Paradise -:- Wed, Dec 10, 1997 at 21:06:50 (EST)
___Mr. Organization -:- Re: Trouble in Playland -:- Wed, Dec 10, 1997 at 21:25:46 (EST)
___Katie -:- Re: Trouble in Playland -:- Wed, Dec 10, 1997 at 21:31:04 (EST)
___Katie -:- Re: Trouble in Playland -:- Wed, Dec 10, 1997 at 22:52:00 (EST)
___Mr Ex -:- Re: Trouble in Playland -:- Thurs, Dec 11, 1997 at 04:21:03 (EST)



Date: Sat, Dec 13, 1997 at 04:18:49 (EST)
Poster: hallelujah chorus
Email: scat@logical.dot
To: JW
Subject: Re: Premie.com
Message:
thou hast not removed the hair from thine own butt which distresseth thy soul grievously
Back To Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Dec 13, 1997 at 01:53:37 (EST)
Poster: David Simpkiss
Email: djulian@cix.compulink.co.uk
To: Everyone
Subject: A good site for all
Message:
For both premies and ex-premies or just "normal" people I thoroughly recommend going to http://nde.simplenet.com/Contents.htm I found this a truly beautiful web site and it answered a lot of questions for me. I'm sure some of you will appreciate it too.
Back To Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Dec 13, 1997 at 10:16:37 (EST)
Poster: Mike
Email: bigguy32@juno.com
To: David Simpkiss
Subject: Re: A good site for all
Message:
For both premies and ex-premies or just 'normal' people I thoroughly recommend going to http://nde.simplenet.com/Contents.htm I found this a truly beautiful web site and it answered a lot of questions for me. I'm sure some of you will appreciate it too. David you've got the heart of a poet. I like the MCI commercial that in effect uses the internet to remove all barriers between us (no race, no country, no disabilities... just minds to minds). I've always found it interesting how we fight and war and torture each other over what we call our ultimate lover - It, God, Godess, Holy Name, Sat Nam, Yahudah, Ram Ramo Ramu Rama Ram, HU, AING, HRING, SHRING, KLING, KSMRING, KRING, HUM, PHAT, AH, SHYAMA, SO-HUNG, HAMSA, AUM, MU, Darling, Sweetheart, Beloved, Cutie Pie. And, I've always been amazed how we try to describe the divine elephant - Light, Music, Nectar, Name, Stillness, Shakti, Shakta, Prikriti, Chitti, Azm-I-Azm, Burning Bush, Wife, Husband, Child, Dog, Cat, Rat, Bat, Cow, Rock, Tree, Ocean. Our Divine Darling pines over us day in a day out, every second of every eternity... waiting for a opportunity for us to acknowlege it some how, some way, anything! Holy Name shows us through constant examples what we really are to it through different phases of ourself (e.g., in our creating, sustaining, changing, transending and innocent states) through every experience. It all comes down to this in my opinion... our Divine Sweetie Pie just wants us to know that it loves us passionately, completely, totally and without any reservation.
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Date: Fri, Dec 12, 1997 at 12:48:47 (EST)
Poster: JW
Email:
To: Everyone
Subject: Premie.com
Message:
I just looked at the "explanation" over at premie.com again and it is so typical of the paranoid way Maharaji and his organization work. In typical Nixonesque, passive voice, arrogance, it just says that "no "other" explanation is being given at this time" as to why the site is gone. Now, obviously, the word "other" is nonsensical because NO explanation is given in the first place. The statement also hides WHO decided that the site should disappear, and also displays the arrogance of Maharaji that premies will just blindly accept whatever directive he gives, although he won't take responsibility for making the directive, just in case it turns out bad and he can blame it on good old PAM, you know, "people around Maharaji," as he has been wont to do over the years, that is, when he wasn't blaming things on premies in general, and, of course, on the stupid "people of the world." I guess he thinks that the real explanation might make him look kind of stupid and perhaps reflect negatively on him and his "knowledge." Anyway, I think it would go something like this: "I have decided that premies shouldn't discuss me or knowledge, or their experience, or, hopefully anything else, where other people might see or hear it. This is because my premies are too stupid and confused to even talk about their own experience of me and knowledge, and if they say what they really believe, (that I am the Lord God walking on earth, all powerful and worthy of total devotion and worship) which, although true, sounds really bad to any person with half a brain and tends to undermine my current PR program which says that I am nothing but a fabulously wealthy, overweight, meditation instructor. Also, premies, in general, can say some pretty dumb stuff that sounds psychotic, and not a good reflection on me. Hide those people if you can, at all cost. Frankly, I don't care much for my devotees, but you know what they say, "can't live with'em and can't live without'em. I mean, I can't BE a perfect master without devotees and I would also be dead broke in about 5 minutes at the rate I spend money, but at least I can minimize their impact on me. Also, I have a paranoid need to control everything surrounding the cult I run. Unfortunately, this trip involves people (source of funds) and I have to tolerate their presence, but I want to minimize their partiicipation and I won't tolerate ANY public discussion. Clear, you idiots? Now, why didn't THAT appear over at premie.com? JW
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Date: Fri, Dec 12, 1997 at 17:52:43 (EST)
Poster: Johnny Cavad
Email:
To: JW
Subject: Re: Premie.com
Message:
You know, he couldn't have said it better! Well spoken!!
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Date: Fri, Dec 12, 1997 at 18:33:23 (EST)
Poster: Katie
Email: petkat@mail.trib.net
To: Johnny Cavad
Subject: Re: Premie.com
Message:
You know, he couldn't have said it better! Well spoken!! I agree, Johnny. JW is quite eloquent when he wants to be. And, also, I'd like to welcome you to the forum. Regards from Katie
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Date: Sat, Dec 13, 1997 at 03:36:02 (EST)
Poster: Mili
Email:
To: JW
Subject: Re: Premie.com
Message:
I just looked at the 'explanation' over at premie.com again and it is so typical of the paranoid way Maharaji and his organization work. In typical Nixonesque, passive voice, arrogance, it just says that 'no 'other' explanation is being given at this time' as to why the site is gone. Now, obviously, the word 'other' is nonsensical because NO explanation is given in the first place. The statement also hides WHO decided that the site should disappear, and also displays the arrogance of Maharaji that premies will just blindly accept whatever directive he gives, although he won't take responsibility for making the directive, just in case it turns out bad and he can blame it on good old PAM, you know, 'people around Maharaji,' as he has been wont to do over the years, that is, when he wasn't blaming things on premies in general, and, of course, on the stupid 'people of the world.' I guess he thinks that the real explanation might make him look kind of stupid and perhaps reflect negatively on him and his 'knowledge.' Anyway, I think it would go something like this: 'I have decided that premies shouldn't discuss me or knowledge, or their experience, or, hopefully anything else, where other people might see or hear it. This is because my premies are too stupid and confused to even talk about their own experience of me and knowledge, and if they say what they really believe, (that I am the Lord God walking on earth, all powerful and worthy of total devotion and worship) which, although true, sounds really bad to any person with half a brain and tends to undermine my current PR program which says that I am nothing but a fabulously wealthy, overweight, meditation instructor. Also, premies, in general, can say some pretty dumb stuff that sounds psychotic, and not a good reflection on me. Hide those people if you can, at all cost. Frankly, I don't care much for my devotees, but you know what they say, 'can't live with'em and can't live without'em. I mean, I can't BE a perfect master without devotees and I would also be dead broke in about 5 minutes at the rate I spend money, but at least I can minimize their impact on me. Also, I have a paranoid need to control everything surrounding the cult I run. Unfortunately, this trip involves people (source of funds) and I have to tolerate their presence, but I want to minimize their partiicipation and I won't tolerate ANY public discussion. Clear, you idiots? Now, why didn't THAT appear over at premie.com? JW You can keep on blathering as much as you want, of course, but the truth is we shut premie.com down because one of your buddies was sending harassing E-mail to everyone who was posting there.
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Date: Sat, Dec 13, 1997 at 10:04:03 (EST)
Poster: Brian
Email: brian@worldnetoh.com
To: Mili
Subject: Re: Premie.com
Message:
You can keep on blathering as much as you want, of course, but the truth is we shut premie.com down because one of your buddies was sending harassing E-mail to everyone who was posting there. This is not the reason that the site was taken down, Mili. As co-webmaster, you had the ability to stop posting the email addresses of the posting premies. A polite term for your statement would be "fantasy". I'm calling it a lie.
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Date: Sat, Dec 13, 1997 at 10:21:49 (EST)
Poster: Bobby
Email:
To: Mili
Subject: Re: Premie.com
Message:
You can keep on blathering as much as you want, of course, but the truth is we shut premie.com down because one of your buddies was sending harassing E-mail to everyone who was posting there. Does anyone else know of this?
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Date: Sat, Dec 13, 1997 at 21:53:01 (EST)
Poster: JW
Email: jogero2@aol.com
To: Mili
Subject: Re: Premie.com
Message:
I just looked at the 'explanation' over at premie.com again and it is so typical of the paranoid way Maharaji and his organization work. In typical Nixonesque, passive voice, arrogance, it just says that 'no 'other' explanation is being given at this time' as to why the site is gone. Now, obviously, the word 'other' is nonsensical because NO explanation is given in the first place. The statement also hides WHO decided that the site should disappear, and also displays the arrogance of Maharaji that premies will just blindly accept whatever directive he gives, although he won't take responsibility for making the directive, just in case it turns out bad and he can blame it on good old PAM, you know, 'people around Maharaji,' as he has been wont to do over the years, that is, when he wasn't blaming things on premies in general, and, of course, on the stupid 'people of the world.' I guess he thinks that the real explanation might make him look kind of stupid and perhaps reflect negatively on him and his 'knowledge.' Anyway, I think it would go something like this: 'I have decided that premies shouldn't discuss me or knowledge, or their experience, or, hopefully anything else, where other people might see or hear it. This is because my premies are too stupid and confused to even talk about their own experience of me and knowledge, and if they say what they really believe, (that I am the Lord God walking on earth, all powerful and worthy of total devotion and worship) which, although true, sounds really bad to any person with half a brain and tends to undermine my current PR program which says that I am nothing but a fabulously wealthy, overweight, meditation instructor. Also, premies, in general, can say some pretty dumb stuff that sounds psychotic, and not a good reflection on me. Hide those people if you can, at all cost. Frankly, I don't care much for my devotees, but you know what they say, 'can't live with'em and can't live without'em. I mean, I can't BE a perfect master without devotees and I would also be dead broke in about 5 minutes at the rate I spend money, but at least I can minimize their impact on me. You can keep on blathering as much as you want, of course, but the truth is we shut premie.com down because one of your buddies was sending harassing E-mail to everyone who was posting there. And your proof for this is? And who is "we"? JW
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Date: Fri, Dec 12, 1997 at 10:55:44 (EST)
Poster: ds
Email: d@vid
To: Everyone
Subject: lights back on
Message:
Just to let you know that the new thread posting page is back as it should be. I did consider changing a few background colours but then thought better of it!
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Date: Fri, Dec 12, 1997 at 11:09:55 (EST)
Poster: ds
Email: d@vid
To: all
Subject: Re: lights back on
Message:
P.S. I couldn't resist putting those little flashing 'new' stickers on. But if anyone objects, I can easily take them off again. P.P.S. Forum III seems to have died a death, which I thinks a pity because it gave a better connection to those of us on the civilised side of the Atlantic. One thing it did reveal is the difference between using Exporer and Netscape. It looked wonderful in Explorer but you needed a magnifying glass to read the text in Netscape and writing anything in those tiny text boxes was like trying to piss through a keyhole from the other side of the street. Not to be recommended! P.P.P.S. One thread which did vanish concerned Anon's Archives. If you're out there Anon, there's a lot of people who would like to be able to access them. Have you put them back on line yet?
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Date: Fri, Dec 12, 1997 at 11:34:04 (EST)
Poster: Katie
Email: petkat@mail.trib.net
To: ds
Subject: Re: lights back on
Message:
P.S. I couldn't resist putting those little flashing 'new' stickers on. But if anyone objects, I can easily take them off again. P.P.S. Forum III seems to have died a death, which I thinks a pity because it gave a better connection to those of us on the civilised side of the Atlantic. One thing it did reveal is the difference between using Exporer and Netscape. It looked wonderful in Explorer but you needed a magnifying glass to read the text in Netscape and writing anything in those tiny text boxes was like trying to piss through a keyhole from the other side of the street. Not to be recommended! P.P.P.S. One thread which did vanish concerned Anon's Archives. If you're out there Anon, there's a lot of people who would like to be able to access them. Have you put them back on line yet? David - I'm not that crazy about the "new" stickers (the yellow ones hurt my eyes a little bit), but perhaps we could leave the green ones on for messages that were posted that day - that might be helpful. I think our messages to Anon regarding the archive are on this forum and are still accessible. P.S. Did you get my TIF files? Are they readable?
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Date: Fri, Dec 12, 1997 at 16:35:24 (EST)
Poster: sticker
Email: bb
To: ds
Subject: fun (Re: lights back on)
Message:
I like em.
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Date: Fri, Dec 12, 1997 at 19:04:35 (EST)
Poster: david
Email: d@vid
To: Katie
Subject: Re: lights back on
Message:
David - I'm not that crazy about the 'new' stickers (the yellow ones hurt my eyes a little bit), but perhaps we could leave the green ones on for messages that were posted that day - that might be helpful. Fussy or what?! It's all or nothing Katie, I'm afraid. I think our messages to Anon regarding the archive are on this forum and are still accessible. So they are... So where is Anonymouse? Still lurking in the dark no doubt. Come on Anon, what is your fucking problem? P.S. Did you get my TIF files? Are they readable? They were wonderful. To see Jim and Joe in the flesh was quite revealing. I have to say that they matched my mental picture fairly accurately. Same with you and Peter. So when can we set up this rogue's gallery on the site? I'd be happy to take my fingers out of my eyes and post one of me. Anyone else out there care to contribute? Just email a scan in any format as an attachment to scan@ex-premie.org and I'll do the rest. I'll hide the page so that only those who have contributed a pic can take a look at the others. It will be a slect group - no toe-kissers allowed!
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Date: Sat, Dec 13, 1997 at 17:42:11 (EST)
Poster: CD
Email:
To: Katie
Subject: Re: lights back on
Message:
How about a decent recent picture of M? What has David been rubbing on the face of the old picture?
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Date: Sat, Dec 13, 1997 at 18:04:54 (EST)
Poster: Katie
Email: petkat@mail.trib.net
To: CD
Subject: Re: lights back on
Message:
How about a decent recent picture of M? What has David been rubbing on the face of the old picture? I think it is supposed to look artistic, Chris. Sort of like it's an old oil painting or something. I hope you do feel that it is a distinct improvement on the picture of Maharaji that was up there until a few days ago (drippy face). I certainly do!
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Date: Thurs, Dec 11, 1997 at 21:03:39 (EST)
Poster: David Simpkiss
Email: djulian@cix.compulink.co.uk
To: Everyone
Subject: Putting it into perspective
Message:
Thanks for the email Joe, Let's look at it in perspective. There's about six billion (I'm guessing) people in the world and after being in the west for over twenty five years, Maharaji gets 8,000 people to come to see him in Los Angeles. That's hardly a massive success story. I think the Moonies can do better than that and certainly, all the Pope has to do is read out a shopping list in different languages and he's got people lying in the streets crying and seeing visions of the Virgin Mary. Divide the 8,000 people who you say were at the LA programme by the 25 years that Maharaji has been in the west (I realise it's longer) and it averages out at 320 new people each year in the west who are following Maharaji. This is not good news for someone who has said that he is going to personally bring peace to the world. This is not good news for someone who can't even convince his own followers that he knows what he's talking about!
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Date: Fri, Dec 12, 1997 at 08:53:36 (EST)
Poster: Mili
Email: mili@cheerful.com
To: David Simpkiss
Subject: Re: Putting it into perspective
Message:
Have you ever heard of the expression, 'The salt of the Earth' ?
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Date: Fri, Dec 12, 1997 at 09:19:30 (EST)
Poster: David Simpkiss
Email: djulian@cix.compulink.co.uk
To: Mili
Subject: Re: Putting it into perspective
Message:
Yes I have heard that expression, "The salt of the earth" and it's used quite often here in Britain. Your knowledge of English idioms is quite staggering Mili, considering that you're Croation. I think you must know some English People. In all of my posts I do not seek to critisise Maharaji's followers. I have tried to reserve critisism only for Maharaji. You see I am suspicious of the cult worship of Maharaji now. I never used to be because I genuinely believed before that he was the Lord and worthy of such adoration. Obviously I've turned around 180 degrees now. What were previously nagging doubts for years have now been confirmed. So if Maharaji is just a person like you or I then why the huge emphasis on devotion to him? If you read and believe Bob Mishler's interview then it would seem that Maharaji keeps the cult worship alive so that he has loads of money. I condider that to be something which must be exposed for the sake of the "ordinary" people in the world who might be misled.
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Date: Fri, Dec 12, 1997 at 10:35:20 (EST)
Poster: John K.
Email: kreilkamp@mindspring.com
To: David Simpkiss
Subject: Re: Putting it into perspective
Message:
Now wait just a doggone minute...why do you keep referring to the Bob Mishler interview as the gospel truth? Why believe Bob Mishler? I suspect BM was on a big power trip himself, and he finally figured out that his days of influencing M were over. I did not know BM for any length of time, but I did meet him and spent a few hours with him in 1973, running all over the place, making important phone calls to Denver etc. Wherever he went, people were calling him with urgent long distance phone calls. Let's face it, Power Corrupts! Who wouldn't love being as important as he was in those days. It must have affected him when he gradually became not so important. Actually, now that I think about it, I was affected when I was transferred from one community, where I had been for awhile and I had some sense of place, identity, importance, etc.,to another community where I was delegated to just regular old bottle washer. It's not that exciting being just a bottle washer.
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Date: Fri, Dec 12, 1997 at 10:47:50 (EST)
Poster: Mr Ex
Email:
To: David Simpkiss
Subject: Re: Putting it into perspective
Message:
Yeah ..... I like that kind of perspective. There were almost 9,700 people past year in Long Beach. 8,000 this year. As about 5,000 new people received knowledge in west in 1997 (figures given by instructors recently) _ 4,000 to 5,000 in 96_ that means something! All these are Elan Vital’s official figures. Make your own conclusions. BigM always had a funny way to show datas, in order not to be depressed I imagine. More than 90% of the people who came to BigM left. And a lot left recently as you can calculate. 14,000 people received knowledge in 96. 17,000 in 97 (these figures include India): where are they ? Less people attended events in 97 than ever ! BigM has a very funny way of counting people attending events : he would say that 200,000 attended events in 97 because EV sold that many entrance tickets in 97 ! I The reality might be quite close to 50,000 India included. (When he says he had 2 events with 50,000 people in India, it doesn’t take into account the fact that most of them attended both of them, including 1,000 westerners). Always found it funny, never realizing what it meant : the reality is depressing ! As he likes figures and playing with his computers, he shows figures ’his’ way ! ! ! ! ! ! The reality is completely different. BigM knows it. But as information is carefully monitored in Elan Vital, it is difficult to bring all the real figures together, i.e. the numbers of people (persons) participating in every country. He probably plays with simulation softwares to figure out what to do to increase his income. He decided for 98 to do what his simulation software said. It looks like he misses some important factors. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I found this in a recent post : >M did say that God has so much mercy that he made that worm have both sexes because >he couldn't get a date. >Yes romantic love can be a bit confusing. PPR just said one more stupid thing ! Worms have both sexes : yes. At the same time : no ! They need to mate. One time as male, one time (some time later) as a female. Law of nature. Please read some school books. It looks like this Creator’s reincarnation is making some ridiculous divine mistakes !
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Date: Fri, Dec 12, 1997 at 10:57:19 (EST)
Poster: Katie
Email: petkat@mail.trib.net
To: John K.
Subject: Mishler redux (Re: Putting it into perspective)
Message:
Now wait just a doggone minute...why do you keep referring to the Bob Mishler interview as the gospel truth? Why believe Bob Mishler? I suspect BM was on a big power trip himself, and he finally figured out that his days of influencing M were over. I did not know BM for any length of time, but I did meet him and spent a few hours with him in 1973, running all over the place, making important phone calls to Denver etc. Wherever he went, people were calling him with urgent long distance phone calls. Let's face it, Power Corrupts! Who wouldn't love being as important as he was in those days. It must have affected him when he gradually became not so important. Actually, now that I think about it, I was affected when I was transferred from one community, where I had been for awhile and I had some sense of place, identity, importance, etc.,to another community where I was delegated to just regular old bottle washer. It's not that exciting being just a bottle washer. The "Was Mishler Lying?" question has been debated on here before (some premies even have said that the entire interview was faked). It's easy enough to check out whether the interview was faked (it wasn't), but Bob Mishler's credibility is a judgement call, and most of the people I know who have read the interview believe he was telling the truth. I never knew Bob Mishler, but after reading the interview, I believe that he was telling the truth. He doesn't appear to have an axe to grind - intead he sounds very intelligent, unprejudiced, and actually appears to be fond of Maharaji. I am very sorry that he's not still around. He apparently lost all his premie friends after giving the interview, and after he died premies spread a lot of rumours saying that he was running drugs in an effort to discredit him. At one point, someone on this forum mentioned that they talked to Bob during the time of the interview; could anyone shed some light on his state of mind at that time?
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Date: Fri, Dec 12, 1997 at 11:52:23 (EST)
Poster: John K.
Email:
To: Katie
Subject: Re: Mishler redux (Re: Putting it into perspective)
Message:
Actually, the story I would like to hear is from the guy who was pres. after Mishler. I forget his name, but he did something like reveal a different meditation technique- this was when the org. was in Denver, and I think it was in 1976. Does anyone else remember this incident or did I dream this? It was all hushed up at the time.
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Date: Fri, Dec 12, 1997 at 12:03:21 (EST)
Poster: JW
Email:
To: John K.
Subject: Re: Putting it into perspective
Message:
I think if you read the Misler interview he comes accross as quite believable. For example, I cannot think of a single personal advantage Mishler had to gain by speaking out the way he did. If he just hated M and wanted revenge, he could have dished him a LOT worse than he did. For example, he was careful to say that M Wasn't, at that time, engaging in extramarital affairs (unlike now, apparently). He DID point out that Maharaji had an alcohol problem and was drunk a lot of the time. However, I find it believable also because it confirms things I heard from others over the years who spent time around M. As I have said before, people who had worked close to Maharaji in the late 80s confirmed to me his drinking problem (expensive (of course) cognac as confirmed again my Mr. Ex as the drug of choice) but that he had also begun to delve into the adultery scene as well. By the way, these people were so disgusted that they left Maharaji entirely and want nothing to do with him. Of course, the vast majority of premies wouldn't have known about this stuff because it was carefully kept secret. So, Mishler is believable to me, for what he said, how he said it, and the fact that it has been cooraborated by others. JW
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Date: Fri, Dec 12, 1997 at 12:10:53 (EST)
Poster: Bobby
Email:
To: John K.
Subject: Re: Mishler redux (Re: Putting it into perspective)
Message:
I'm trying to think of the name of guy who was, I think, the president after Mishler. I lived with him at the 35th street ashram in NYC in 95 ---- got it! Lou Schwartz. I never heard about him revealing tecniques. Never knew what happened to him. I think he was only president for about a year or so.
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Date: Fri, Dec 12, 1997 at 13:19:32 (EST)
Poster: John K.
Email:
To: Bobby
Subject: Re: Mishler redux (Re: Putting it into perspective)
Message:
All right! what a memory! I remembered some more of that incident, all of this is 2nd hand since I was not there, but he talked about some technique for following your breath out through the top of the head. I actually do it sometimes like when I wake up in the middle of the night and I am trying to do lucid dreaming. It's kind of effective...but to get back to the subject, and I don't even know what the subject is...but..oh yeah..there have been plenty of people in positions of power within the organization, I see we have the bob mishler interview, but are there no others who have surfaced to throw in their 2 cents? I am new to this forum, how long has it been happening?
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Date: Fri, Dec 12, 1997 at 14:05:41 (EST)
Poster: John K.
Email:
To: Mili
Subject: Re: Putting it into perspective
Message:
Have you ever heard of the expression, 'The salt of the Earth' ? Are the 'salt of the earth' the same as 'the chosen people'?
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Date: Fri, Dec 12, 1997 at 14:25:10 (EST)
Poster: Sir David
Email: djulian@cix.compulink.co.uk
To: John K.
Subject: Re: Mishler redux (Re: Putting it into perspective)
Message:
Incidentally, I remember Lou Schwartz. He used to work with us in Divine Sales in London back in '72. I didn't realise he became president. I can certainly imagine him adding his own elaberations to the techniques. He was an interesting guy and great to work with. We had some good laughs back then. I can't imagine Lou putting up with any bullshit from Maharaji. Maybe that's why he disappeared after just one year as president?
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Date: Fri, Dec 12, 1997 at 15:04:50 (EST)
Poster: bobby
Email:
To: John K.
Subject: Re: Putting it into perspective
Message:
No, the salt of the earth are the "ordinary" people, the "common" folk, the "working class". (I dislike using these labels for the associations they invoke like hierarchy and class).
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Date: Fri, Dec 12, 1997 at 15:31:10 (EST)
Poster: God
Email:
To: John K.
Subject: Re: Putting it into perspective
Message:
Have you ever heard of the expression, 'The salt of the Earth' ? Are the 'salt of the earth' the same as 'the chosen people'? The 'chosen people' were the Jews led by Moses, whom I delivered out of Egypt and Babylon. The 'salt of the Earth' are the all those who choose to keep my Name, heathens and Jews included.
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Date: Fri, Dec 12, 1997 at 16:01:59 (EST)
Poster: john k.
Email: mind@braindead.com
To: bobby
Subject: Re: Putting it into perspective
Message:
thanks, I'm an idiot, but my excuse is I am doing this corresponding while at work, and not really putting a lot of thought into it. mindless...or is it 'the mind'. interesting the expressions that I used to use and have not used in so long now. It's been 15 years since I left M. Of course by that time, we were most of us enlightened enough not to say things like 'hey brother (or sister),your in your mind!' Also, I am curious what Milli's reference was to the salt of the earth in his comment above. I am not completely convinced that it matters one way or the other how many people flock to the feet of the master. All of these numbers of people who have received K etc. I mean, look at what is popular to the masses! The fact that it is not popular to the masses might be a good sign.
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Date: Fri, Dec 12, 1997 at 16:06:38 (EST)
Poster: Katie
Email: [etkat@mail.trib.net
To: bobby
Subject: Re: Putting it into perspective
Message:
No, the salt of the earth are the 'ordinary' people, the 'common' folk, the 'working class'. (I dislike using these labels for the associations they invoke like hierarchy and class). Bobby - isn't the phrase "the salt of the earth" in the Sermon on the Mount? (We don't have a bible in the house, except for the "Living Bible" that Peter received when he was confirmed. I can't find "salt of the earth" in this, but I think this edition distorts the words and meaning of many of the verses.)
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Date: Fri, Dec 12, 1997 at 16:20:52 (EST)
Poster: John K.
Email: Sorry@beenalongweek.yawn
To: Katie
Subject: Re: Putting it into perspective
Message:
So, was it the Living Bible that was found in the Dead Sea?
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Date: Fri, Dec 12, 1997 at 17:29:20 (EST)
Poster: Katie (off topic, and so was John)
Email: petkat@mail.trib.net
To: John K.
Subject: Re: Putting it into perspective
Message:
So, was it the Living Bible that was found in the Dead Sea? No it's this Bible my husband was given at his confirmation in 1974. Just think - I got the big K (knowledge) before he was even confirmed in the Lutheran faith! (Lutherans are slow, what can I say. Everything you have heard from Garrison Keillor is true.)
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Date: Fri, Dec 12, 1997 at 19:09:45 (EST)
Poster: Sir David
Email: djulian@cix.compulink.co.uk
To: God
Subject: Re: Putting it into perspective
Message:
I've never read about the salt of the earth in the Bible. In England it's a common expression used when talking about those ordinary people who we owe a debt of gratitude to. Often unsung heroes through their work by which we all benefit. It is a compliment for someone to talk about you as being the salt of the earth. It is in the UK anyway. Nobody here uses it as a biblical reference and I think that Mili probably meant it in its biblical sense. So I've learned something today.
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Date: Fri, Dec 12, 1997 at 22:05:21 (EST)
Poster: CD
Email:
To: Mr Ex
Subject: Re: Putting it into perspective
Message:
So what happened to Woodstock? The music at the Long Beach event was great. The new premie music CD 'Drifting' is better than ever! There is even a guitar musical that Jim Heller would probably like. The focus on experiencing the simple wisdom was right-on. I was in Rome in 90 and have the video of the event with the worm story. It was a truely fine presentation. The 90 Rome Arise video is one of the best. You're not eating right. Take care, CD
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Date: Sat, Dec 13, 1997 at 00:05:08 (EST)
Poster: op
Email:
To: Mr Ex
Subject: Re: test (Re: Putting it into perspective)
Message:
There were almost 9,700 people past year in Long Beach. 8,000 this year.
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Date: Sat, Dec 13, 1997 at 00:17:16 (EST)
Poster: Butchoover
Email: Butchoover
To: Katie (off topic, and so was John)
Subject: Re: Putting it into perspective
Message:
So, was it the Living Bible that was found in the Dead Sea? No it's this Bible my husband was given at his confirmation in 1974. Just think - I got the big K (knowledge) before he was even confirmed in the Lutheran faith! (Lutherans are slow, what can I say. Everything you have heard from Garrison Keillor is true.) I was a fairly well-known premie in the early seventies who sorked on several festivals. Prior to receiving knowledge, I tried at least a couple dozen meditation techniques, including some of the ones i received at my "knowledge session' from Fakiranand. i worked closely with Bill Patterson and Joan Apter at various points in time. All i can say is that i never experienced the incredible feeling that i did at that knowledge session until that day. I was on the verge of suicide at that point. i am now an attorney with a nonpremie wife and four children and i continually thank Maharaj-Ji for all that I have learned and applied, both to my family and clients.
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Date: Sat, Dec 13, 1997 at 00:19:09 (EST)
Poster: op
Email: notentirely@aloss
To: Mr Ex
Subject: Re: test (Re: Putting it into perspective)
Message:
Okay - just wanted to see if the italics were working. They are. Here's my response: There were almost 9,700 people past year in Long Beach. 8,000 this year. You forgot to mention that 4,600 people went to Amaroo, many of whom would otherwise have gone to Long Beach only. A lot of Europeans and Asians attended one event only. I don't have data on who went to which. he would say that 200,000 attended events in 97 because EV sold that many entrance tickets in 97 ! I The reality might be quite close to 50,000 India included. (When he says he had 2 events with 50,000 people in India, it doesn¹t take into account the fact that most of them attended both of them, including 1,000 westerners). How do your work YOUR data? I've been in India. Two events of 30,000 each, each with a completely different set of people. That was Delhi. How about the south of India? How about Nepal? Different people (most Indians can't afford to travel to various events). How about Africa? (again, most don't travel) Malaysia? Without really knowing the facts YOU are blowing hot air.
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Date: Sat, Dec 13, 1997 at 01:01:02 (EST)
Poster: Butchoover
Email: Butchoover
To: Katie
Subject: Re: Mishler redux (Re: Putting it into perspective)
Message:
Now wait just a doggone minute...why do you keep referring to the Bob Mishler interview as the gospel truth? Why believe Bob Mishler? I suspect BM was on a big power trip himself, and he finally figured out that his days of influencing M were over. I did not know BM for any length of time, but I did meet him and spent a few hours with him in 1973, running all over the place, making important phone calls to Denver etc. Wherever he went, people were calling him with urgent long distance phone calls. Let's face it, Power Corrupts! Who wouldn't love being as important as he was in those days. It must have affected him when he gradually became not so important. Actually, now that I think about it, I was affected when I was transferred from one community, where I had been for awhile and I had some sense of place, identity, importance, etc.,to another community where I was delegated to just regular old bottle washer. It's not that exciting being just a bottle washer. The 'Was Mishler Lying?' question has been debated on here before (some premies even have said that the entire interview was faked). It's easy enough to check out whether the interview was faked (it wasn't), but Bob Mishler's credibility is a judgement call, and most of the people I know who have read the interview believe he was telling the truth. I never knew Bob Mishler, but after reading the interview, I believe that he was telling the truth. He doesn't appear to have an axe to grind - intead he sounds very intelligent, unprejudiced, and actually appears to be fond of Maharaji. I am very sorry that he's not still around. He apparently lost all his premie friends after giving the interview, and after he died premies spread a lot of rumours saying that he was running drugs in an effort to discredit him. At one point, someone on this forum mentioned that they talked to Bob during the time of the interview; could anyone shed some light on his state of mind at that time? See my subsequent correspondence regarding mischler. I was in the Philadelphia Ashram when Mischler came through and literally picked the most physically attractive woman around, Ilene Weisen, to be his wife. We all knew it was a power-play on his part. My opinion of Mischler was reinforced through several direct conversations concerning the distribution of "And It IS Divine" magazine and my ultimate move to the Miami Ashra where i had further contact with this guy, who refused to meditate and actually ridiculed me for doing so for long periods of time. All i know is that I eventually reconciled what I learned from Maharaj-Ji with dealing with the rest of the world and seem to be better off for it than most people that I meet and encounter every day.
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Date: Sat, Dec 13, 1997 at 01:47:29 (EST)
Poster: DVD
Email: bb
To: CD
Subject: Re: Putting it into perspective
Message:
So what happened to Woodstock? The music at the Long Beach event was great. The new premie music CD 'Drifting' is better than ever! There is even a guitar musical that Jim Heller would probably like. The focus on experiencing the simple wisdom was right-on. I was in Rome in 90 and have the video of the event with the worm story. It was a truely fine presentation. The 90 Rome Arise video is one of the best. You're not eating right. Take care, CD Now THIS sounds like chris. Someone sent me the tape, that would be the lord of the universe instrumental I bet. The tape is surprisingly no holds barred devotional. I wasn't expecting that. Why don't you post the printed excerpt of the programs. I don't have the time you do.
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Date: Sat, Dec 13, 1997 at 02:20:44 (EST)
Poster: bill patterson and the
Email: bb
To: archives
Subject: fifth technique (Re: Putting it into perspective)
Message:
Actually, the story I would like to hear is from the guy who was pres. after Mishler. I forget his name, but he did something like reveal a different meditation technique- this was when the org. was in Denver, and I think it was in 1976. Does anyone else remember this incident or did I dream this? It was all hushed up at the time. I don't know why I woke up in the middle of the night again, last time this happened the number 1 showed up. Sleep is nice, when I die I want to go like my grandfather..in his sleep, not screaming, like the other passengers in his car. yawn, In 77 or 78 bill patterson came through town with some fresh charanamrit (which I still have- actually it has some shri hans in it), and said that maharaji had shown him a fifth technique. maharaji had said not to show it to anyone, so I wondered why was he showing it to the few of us? It was doing all four techniques at once. that was it. Bill was the next president of the mission after Mishler. Lou schwartz and others left because they said the premies that believe maharaji was the lord were taking control of mission. In 76 all the top guys in the denver staff were given private meetings one on one with maharaji to improve thier working relationship with him. He told a couple of them that he was not god, and maharaji agreed with bob mishlers reccomendation that he meet werner erhardt the founder of est. werner came to the office to have therapy (or whatever est is), and then maharaji refused to meet him. Which I thought was a good idea at the time. Because a lot of the head denver staff were into est, and I thought if m had seen erhardt it would have given me the same feeling you might be having now. Some denver premies got into some yoga technique that I believe was the top of the head fantasy, and it was getting around the denver community and others. So maharaji talked about it and said at an event in 76 in denver, that if there was a fifth technique he would have shown us. Well, thats all you asked, so goodnight.
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Date: Sat, Dec 13, 1997 at 02:29:24 (EST)
Poster: LA
Email: bb
To: op
Subject: LADY (Re: Putting it into perspective)
Message:
Hello opelesence, How did you like the event?
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Date: Sat, Dec 13, 1997 at 03:01:15 (EST)
Poster: Katie
Email: petkat@mail.trib.net
To: CD
Subject: the CD Te Ching (Re: Putting it into perspective)
Message:
Dear Chris - can I send Bill your e-mail? The one where you say that you were "1"? I think it would be a nice thing to do. Perhaps you were divinely inspired while making those posts. Their effect on Bill was quite positive.
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Date: Sat, Dec 13, 1997 at 03:12:48 (EST)
Poster: Katie
Email: petkat@mail.trib.net
To: Butchoover
Subject: Re: Mishler redux (Re: Putting it into perspective)
Message:
Now wait just a doggone minute...why do you keep referring to the Bob Mishler interview as the gospel truth? Why believe Bob Mishler? I suspect BM was on a big power trip himself, and he finally figured out that his days of influencing M were over. I did not know BM for any length of time, but I did meet him and spent a few hours with him in 1973, running all over the place, making important phone calls to Denver etc. Wherever he went, people were calling him with urgent long distance phone calls. Let's face it, Power Corrupts! Who wouldn't love being as important as he was in those days. It must have affected him when he gradually became not so important. Actually, now that I think about it, I was affected when I was transferred from one community, where I had been for awhile and I had some sense of place, identity, importance, etc.,to another community where I was delegated to just regular old bottle washer. It's not that exciting being just a bottle washer. The 'Was Mishler Lying?' question has been debated on here before (some premies even have said that the entire interview was faked). It's easy enough to check out whether the interview was faked (it wasn't), but Bob Mishler's credibility is a judgement call, and most of the people I know who have read the interview believe he was telling the truth. I never knew Bob Mishler, but after reading the interview, I believe that he was telling the truth. He doesn't appear to have an axe to grind - intead he sounds very intelligent, unprejudiced, and actually appears to be fond of Maharaji. I am very sorry that he's not still around. He apparently lost all his premie friends after giving the interview, and after he died premies spread a lot of rumours saying that he was running drugs in an effort to discredit him. At one point, someone on this forum mentioned that they talked to Bob during the time of the interview; could anyone shed some light on his state of mind at that time? See my subsequent correspondence regarding mischler. I was in the Philadelphia Ashram when Mischler came through and literally picked the most physically attractive woman around, Ilene Weisen, to be his wife. We all knew it was a power-play on his part. My opinion of Mischler was reinforced through several direct conversations concerning the distribution of 'And It IS Divine' magazine and my ultimate move to the Miami Ashra where i had further contact with this guy, who refused to meditate and actually ridiculed me for doing so for long periods of time. All i know is that I eventually reconciled what I learned from Maharaj-Ji with dealing with the rest of the world and seem to be better off for it than most people that I meet and encounter every day. Dear whoever (I keep wanting to refer to you as "Butch", which probably isn't your name. I did live in a premie house with two guys named Butch at one time, but I'm certain that you are neither of them.) A lot of people have said that Bob Mishler was uptight, that he was a control freak, that he had a bad personality, and so forth. My feeling is this doesn't throw any doubt on the veracity of the Mishler interview. What I mean is: just because you didn't like the guy, you think he was lying? Even people with discordant personalities can tell the truth.
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Date: Sat, Dec 13, 1997 at 03:57:48 (EST)
Poster: b
Email: bb
To: Katie
Subject: Re: the CD Te Ching (Re: Putting it into perspective)
Message:
Dear Chris - can I send Bill your e-mail? The one where you say that you were '1'? I think it would be a nice thing to do. Perhaps you were divinely inspired while making those posts. Their effect on Bill was quite positive. you mean my poetry?
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Date: Sat, Dec 13, 1997 at 04:20:59 (EST)
Poster: Mr Ex
Email:
To: op
Subject: Re: test (Re: Putting it into perspective)
Message:
>Here's my response: >>There were almost 9,700 people past year in Long Beach. >>8,000 this year. >You forgot to mention that 4,600 people went to Amaroo, many of whom would otherwise have >gone to Long Beach only. A lot of Europeans and Asians attended one event only. I don't have >data on who went to which. Great figures ...... BUT : Do you recall what happened before the LA event past year and 2 years ago ? M had big tours and lots of events in Europe and in the US, including big international conference in Rome. And events in Amaroo/Australia, smaller I agree. No international event in Europe this year. Not much difference. AND : 8,000 to 9,000 people received K in west (according to Yorum Weisz) in 96/97 : how do you include them in these figures ? Just my question ..... >>he would say that 200,000 attended events in 97 because EV sold that many >>entrance tickets in 97 ! I The reality might be quite close to 50,000 India included. >>(When he says he had 2 events with 50,000 people in India, it doesn¹t take into >>account the fact that most of them attended both of them, including 1,000 westerners). >How do your work YOUR data? I've been in India. Two events of 30,000 each, each with a >completely different set of people. That was Delhi. I’ve been in India several times. And I went to the Indian camp, when M forbids westerners to do so. And the huge western security tries to implement his orders. Guess why ? I had dinner several time with Indian community coordinators, and they also gave me some interesting figures. Premies from west are not allowed to go there ....... I never cared too much for these forbidden things in M’s world, that’s how I learned a lot. Maybe I’m too smart ..... >How about the south of India? How about Nepal? Different people (most Indians can't afford to >travel to various events). That’s right. I’m just saying that these followers are shared by different gurus. At least you don’t disagree with M’s way of calculating numbers of people coming / entrances. PREMIES ARE JUST NUMBERS OF PEOPLE (I was) BUYING ENTRANCE TICKETS. He doesn’t care much for ‘ordinary’ people, ‘the Salt of the Earth’ ? >How about Africa? (again, most don't travel) Malaysia? I agree completely : lots of new people come to programs in Africa. I won’t comment the fact. It can be explained many ways. M is always ‘successful’ in the beginning. Remember how many people received K in the US ? Tens of thousands ! How many ? As well as Mauritius. The truth is that these peoples families have been involved in Radhasoami tradition for ages. Same thing in India. What BigM never says is that he shares his followers with the 30 (or so) other gurus of the Radhasoami tradition. It’s been like that for decades. Specially in the north of India. Same thing in Malaysia, and other countries with big Indian communities. Radhasoami claim about 500,000 followers in India these days. Many of them received M’s K too of course. Charan Sing and Co also have lots of followers in western Indian communities. Much more than M does ! >Without really knowing the facts YOU are blowing hot air. I might miss some figures, I agree. Why don’t you give all of them ? Could be helpful. Like : number of people who received K this year and past years, in which countries, etc. Numbers of people (not entrance tickets) coming, and for what, these figures exist in each country/state. M keeps asking for monthly statistics. Why not show ALL these figures ?
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Date: Sat, Dec 13, 1997 at 07:33:49 (EST)
Poster: Mili
Email:
To: Butchoover
Subject: Re: Mishler redux (Re: Putting it into perspective)
Message:
Now wait just a doggone minute...why do you keep referring to the Bob Mishler interview as the gospel truth? Why believe Bob Mishler? I suspect BM was on a big power trip himself, and he finally figured out that his days of influencing M were over. I did not know BM for any length of time, but I did meet him and spent a few hours with him in 1973, running all over the place, making important phone calls to Denver etc. Wherever he went, people were calling him with urgent long distance phone calls. Let's face it, Power Corrupts! Who wouldn't love being as important as he was in those days. It must have affected him when he gradually became not so important. Actually, now that I think about it, I was affected when I was transferred from one community, where I had been for awhile and I had some sense of place, identity, importance, etc.,to another community where I was delegated to just regular old bottle washer. It's not that exciting being just a bottle washer. The 'Was Mishler Lying?' question has been debated on here before (some premies even have said that the entire interview was faked). It's easy enough to check out whether the interview was faked (it wasn't), but Bob Mishler's credibility is a judgement call, and most of the people I know who have read the interview believe he was telling the truth. I never knew Bob Mishler, but after reading the interview, I believe that he was telling the truth. He doesn't appear to have an axe to grind - intead he sounds very intelligent, unprejudiced, and actually appears to be fond of Maharaji. I am very sorry that he's not still around. He apparently lost all his premie friends after giving the interview, and after he died premies spread a lot of rumours saying that he was running drugs in an effort to discredit him. At one point, someone on this forum mentioned that they talked to Bob during the time of the interview; could anyone shed some light on his state of mind at that time? See my subsequent correspondence regarding mischler. I was in the Philadelphia Ashram when Mischler came through and literally picked the most physically attractive woman around, Ilene Weisen, to be his wife. We all knew it was a power-play on his part. My opinion of Mischler was reinforced through several direct conversations concerning the distribution of 'And It IS Divine' magazine and my ultimate move to the Miami Ashra where i had further contact with this guy, who refused to meditate and actually ridiculed me for doing so for long periods of time. All i know is that I eventually reconciled what I learned from Maharaj-Ji with dealing with the rest of the world and seem to be better off for it than most people that I meet and encounter every day. Yeah, that really confirms my own appraisal of that asshole. Mishler was a Bill Graham or Andrew Loog Oldham kind of character who tried to capitalize and get his kicks from the whole thing. It's obvious that he wanted to package and sell the Knowledge as some kind of McDonald's hamburger. Didn't work out for him, though. I've seen at least two versions of his 'interview' on the Internet, and the inconsistency in style is so transparent only a child wouldn't see it. You take Mishler and mix it with the leftovers from Mata Ji's defamation campaign in the early seventies and you get - the ex-premie page. The thing is, all that is yesterday's papers, so new wild stories need to be invented to fill the gap. You're wasting your time, assholes. Anyone who's ever been to a festival or seen a video can see right off the bat that you are raving like anything. Yeah, I know - no way you are going to show your face at a programme after all the crap that you spouted here. So, you'll rationalize it further and put the blame for that on guess who? Gee, it really takes a God to put up with all of your bullshit. Why don't you at least pick up a magazine and have a look at Maharaji's face? The kindness and sincerity in those eyes is unmistakeable.
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Date: Sat, Dec 13, 1997 at 10:29:45 (EST)
Poster: Brian
Email: brian@worldnetoh.com
To: Butchoover
Subject: Re: Mishler redux (Re: Putting it into perspective)
Message:
I was in the Philadelphia Ashram when Mischler came through and literally picked the most physically attractive woman around, Ilene Weisen, to be his wife. We all knew it was a power-play on his part. I have no idea what inter-personal scene you are witnessed, but you obviously misread it. Bob and his wife were already married before MJ ever scarfed-down his first pizza in the US. They had a son (I believe his name was Ethan) that was already 3-4 years old in 1972 when I was living at the Denver ashram. She didn't live in the ashram, since there were no children allowed. Bob first went public about MJ after the Jonestown Massacre, when he told the Denver newspapers that MJ's control over premies could lead to the same sort of event happening there. It was front-page news in the wake of the slaughter. I was in Denver at the time, and I talked to Bob on the phone for 45 minutes regarding the reasons that they had dropped the Fat Boy. He was still married to the same woman, and one of their main personal concerns was the way that MJ treated their son (who looked-up to MJ even as he was being pinched by the fun-loving Lord).
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Date: Sat, Dec 13, 1997 at 10:39:20 (EST)
Poster: Bobby
Email:
To: Katie
Subject: Re: Mishler redux (Re: Putting it into perspective)
Message:
Katie, I don't think we are dealing with "objective truth" on Mishler's part. I definitely think that Mishler had an axe to grind and a hefty one at that. There may be elements of truth in what Mishler says, such as Maharaji's fondness for liquor and whatever, but that doesn't make Mishler the authority on "fraudulence". I don't agree that Mishler can be seen as neutral or objective. He was on a personal crusade against Maharaji. (Actually, I don't think anyone can be completely objective. Our biases color our views far more strongly than is generally known. But Mishler I think is even more strongly biased than anyone who was not as passionately involved as he was.)
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Date: Sat, Dec 13, 1997 at 10:43:34 (EST)
Poster: Brian
Email: brian@worldnetoh.com
To: op
Subject: Re: test (Re: Putting it into perspective)
Message:
How do your work YOUR data? I've been in India. Two events of 30,000 each, each with a completely different set of people. That was Delhi. Opie, your powers of observation are astounding! Here you are surrounded by 30,000 people on the second day of a 2-day event, and yet you can still observe that you didn't see any of these people yesterday! I am awed... I am also amazed that 30,000 people would journey across the Indian sub-continent to be with the Lord Of The Universe, and yet not stay to be near him on the next day. What amazing control MJ has over his loving premies! "You all go home now, and make room for those lined-up outside..."
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Date: Sat, Dec 13, 1997 at 10:59:03 (EST)
Poster: Brian
Email: brian@worldnetoh.com
To: Bobby
Subject: Re: Mishler redux (Re: Putting it into perspective)
Message:
I have a hard time believing that you didn't once proclaim MJ as Lord Of The Universe, Bobby. You take a constant non-stance on this now, passing along Buddhist drivel about how life is purely a subjective experience and, being a mere pilgrim on the path, you don't feel comfortable warning anyone about the mud puddles you may have stepped in. Perhaps they only SEEMED wet to you? Why force your viewpoint on those about to make the same steps? Yet here you make an actual statement that would undercut another pilgrim's warning. Yes, Bob stepped it in. And warned those behind him. Perhaps it's actually mud, Bobby. What did you have to wipe off of your shoes? Did you tell all your friends and family that the Lord was here? Did any of them bite along with you at your recommendation? Do you have any personal credibility with any of them now? Your non-position on MJ being or not being a fraud is, of course, admirable. Very Buddhist. Especially in light of your having kissed his feet in the past. Your position on Bob Mishler, on the other hand, is amazing. Especially in light of your not having known him. Who have YOU warned, Bobby? JSCA.
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Date: Sat, Dec 13, 1997 at 11:23:02 (EST)
Poster: Katie
Email: petkat@mail.trib.net
To: b
Subject: Re: the CD Te Ching (Re: Putting it into perspective)
Message:
Dear Chris - can I send Bill your e-mail? The one where you say that you were '1'? I think it would be a nice thing to do. Perhaps you were divinely inspired while making those posts. Their effect on Bill was quite positive. you mean my poetry? The poetry, too, but also you said (or I interpreted something that you said to mean) that you weren't angry any more.
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Date: Sat, Dec 13, 1997 at 11:35:39 (EST)
Poster: Katie
Email: petkat@mail.trib.net
To: Bobby
Subject: Re: Mishler redux (Re: Putting it into perspective)
Message:
Katie, I don't think we are dealing with 'objective truth' on Mishler's part. I definitely think that Mishler had an axe to grind and a hefty one at that. There may be elements of truth in what Mishler says, such as Maharaji's fondness for liquor and whatever, but that doesn't make Mishler the authority on 'fraudulence'. I don't agree that Mishler can be seen as neutral or objective. He was on a personal crusade against Maharaji. (Actually, I don't think anyone can be completely objective. Our biases color our views far more strongly than is generally known. But Mishler I think is even more strongly biased than anyone who was not as passionately involved as he was.) Bobby - I didn't mean to imply that Bob Mishler was "objective" - how could he be? I'm not "objective" about GMJ and neither is anyone else who posts on this page. I don't think Mishler claimed to be objective, or an authority on fraudulence either. What I was trying to say is that the impression I got from reading the interview (someone around here has the tape, by the way) was that Mishler was trying to tell the truth as he saw it, without distortion. He does not appear to be seeking revenge. P.S. I do wonder how many people who are involved in the current discussion have actually read the whole interview.
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Date: Sat, Dec 13, 1997 at 11:40:05 (EST)
Poster: Sir David
Email: djulian@cix.compulink.co.uk
To: bill patterson and the
Subject: Re: fifth technique (Re: Putting it into perspective)
Message:
I guess that's why Krishna had four arms then because you'd need four arms to do all the techniques at once! Your comment about Lou leaving the mission does sound very much like the him as I used to know him back in '72.
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Date: Sat, Dec 13, 1997 at 11:45:49 (EST)
Poster: Bobby
Email:
To: Brian
Subject: Re: Mishler redux (Re: Putting it into perspective)
Message:
I have a hard time believing that you didn't once proclaim MJ as Lord Of The Universe, Bobby. You take a constant non-stance on this now,passing along Buddhist drivel Sorry you see it like that. I don't agree with your way of looking at the world. Don't think I ever have. I don't think you agree with my way either. When I was an active premie, I really didn't do the "Lord of the Universe" thing. At least not much, and if I sang the songs and listened to the Satsang, it wasn't as strong as some of you others. I have views on things. I have views on Maharaji as well and I've attempted some of my views here. You may think your views are absolute. Like you are sure Maharaji is a fraud. Actually, I think everybody is a fraud. There is much suffering in the world. What about your responsibility for the suffering? For me, no view is absolute. I do have some views, and I attempt to articulate them. I don't think you understand at least some of my views. I don't think I understand myself all of my views. It's an exploratory process. For me some views are hard to explain in words. Too bad you are so angry with me. Why does it infuriate you so that I see the Mishler situation the way I do? I don't feel like I need to warn anybody about Maharaji per se. I don't feel the anger against him that you do. To me, he seems like a materialist, but to me, this is also part of the illusion. There are lots of materialists around and I get angry with them. I am grateful for the meditation I received. I am grateful for the wonderful folks I knew and know as premies. I am grateful for the shelter I received during a particularly vulnerable time of my life. Do I feel this gratitude towards Maharaji? Not particularly. I've given him some money and told a lot of people about his meditation. In my view, the meditation works. To paraphrase Harry Dean Stanton in Repo Man: "See those people over there? Ordinary people. Fuck em" Try to understand. I've always been an outsider. I've been much more wounded by "ordinary people" than I have been by Maharaji or his premies. Ordinary people are my greatest challenge. What I mean by ordinary people are the ones who have bought into the American Dream (and the progressions thereof). -- the money, the sex, the cars, etc. The yuppies, the suburbanites. To me, they are perpetuating the dream that is destroying the planet. HOWEVER. I realize that all these people are sacred beings as well. I work with giving up my anger. Really. So my anger view is just a view. And my Maharaji view is just a view as well.
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Date: Sat, Dec 13, 1997 at 11:50:49 (EST)
Poster: Katie
Email: petkat@mail.trib.net
To: John K.
Subject: Re: Mishler redux (Re: Putting it into perspective)
Message:
John - here is what I remember from reading the forum. I don't know any of these people personally, so would appreciate if other people could correct or augment what I say. Again, this is just my memory from reading the forum archives, so it might be wrong. Bill Patterson left GMJ, and I think his whereabouts are unknown. Gary Ockenden left GMJ and doesn't want to talk about Maharaji. Mike Donner ditto. JW, op, and bill probably know a lot more, because they know a lot more premies than I ever did. Some of the ex-premies who have posted on here have said that they didn't want to talk or think about Maharaji for several years after leaving. This was certainly my experience. So perhaps that is why more ex-premies have not "surfaced".
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Date: Sat, Dec 13, 1997 at 11:59:30 (EST)
Poster: Bobby
Email:
To: Brian
Subject: Re: Mishler redux (Re: Putting it into perspective)
Message:
Human beings can alter their lives by altering their attitudes of mind. - William James
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Date: Sat, Dec 13, 1997 at 12:11:07 (EST)
Poster: Mili
Email:
To: Katie
Subject: Re: Mishler redux (Re: Putting it into perspective)
Message:
Bill Patterson left GMJ, and I think his whereabouts are unknown. Gary Ockenden left GMJ and doesn't want to talk about Maharaji. Mike Donner ditto. How do you know they didn't show up at some of the programs? How do you know they don't meditate sometimes? How do you know what their true feelings are? It's too easy to slap labels on people. Life is not simply black or white. - Mili
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Date: Sat, Dec 13, 1997 at 12:44:43 (EST)
Poster: Katie
Email: katpet@mail.trib.net
To: Mili
Subject: Re: Mishler redux (Re: Putting it into perspective)
Message:
Bill Patterson left GMJ, and I think his whereabouts are unknown. Gary Ockenden left GMJ and doesn't want to talk about Maharaji. Mike Donner ditto. How do you know they didn't show up at some of the programs? How do you know they don't meditate sometimes? How do you know what their true feelings are? It's too easy to slap labels on people. Life is not simply black or white. - Mili Dear Mili - I DON'T know any of that, and I said so in my original message. If you know something that I don't, feel free to correct me. I was just trying to answer John's question to the best of my ability.
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Date: Sat, Dec 13, 1997 at 16:56:13 (EST)
Poster: CD
Email:
To: Bobby
Subject: Re: Mishler redux (Re: Putting it into perspective)
Message:
I went to the event in Miami in the 80s where about 7500 people sat down for dinner at tables of 8 each with 2 magnum bottles of wine at each table. All the catering waiters and waitresses did a parade in front of M to give him a salute. A small orchestra played during the dinner aginst the background of a dimmed festively lit hall. I met some delightful French speaking people from Canada at my table. Some premies rented a club and threw a great party afterwards. I still know some friends I met at the party. Maybe I have a problem because these fun events are what my memory is filled with. While people spend time re-analyzing the old news of the Mishler interview, M continues to improve and move forward. There will be plenty of new stuff happening in 98. Who knows, maybe I will make it to New York City and we can have a chat. Regards, CD
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Date: Sat, Dec 13, 1997 at 17:26:00 (EST)
Poster: CD
Email:
To: DVD
Subject: Re: Putting it into perspective
Message:
Bill, Does your Email work? Send me a message:
webmaster@cdickey.com I have some info for you. I may be coming to New York and need to check on you . And what happened to my historic music tape by the way? The song I was thinking about for Jim was #10. #5 is a great song. I like #8 a lot but my girlfriend prefers the female singers. She loves the recent purple CD with the Japanese singer with the great voice. The Japanese singer sang a couple songs at the event. If people want to know what was said at Long Beach they can go to a local video showing or buy the videos from Visions. A few text bytes out of context don't do the presentation justice. I assume there will be a Long Beach highlights video out soon. Anywone can send me email if you need info on where to find the stuff. CD webmaster@cdickey.com
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Date: Sat, Dec 13, 1997 at 21:32:24 (EST)
Poster: op
Email:
To: Brian
Subject: Re: Mishler redux (Re: Putting it into perspective)
Message:
Brian: I can't absolutely deny your post, because I wasn't an intimate of Mishler's - but I did know him well enough that he sent me a copy of his 'satsang' just after M performed the marriage ceremony - in 1973. I never knew Bob to be married before that, and certainly never saw him with a child. Are you sure you're not confusing him with someone else? I knew a premie kid named Ethan, who wasn't Mishler's son. I don't mean to open any cans of worms here - and if Mishler was secretly married the whole time - well, who'd a thunk it!
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Date: Sat, Dec 13, 1997 at 21:39:16 (EST)
Poster: op
Email:
To: Brian
Subject: Re: test (Re: Putting it into perspective)
Message:
'You all go home now, and make room for those lined-up outside...' Yup, exactly. Camp is emptied and newcomers arrive. You'd be surprised how UNLIKE Western groupies most of the Indians are. I'm sure a few get through using alternate names for registration - maybe 50. BTW, ex-guy - I've also been in the Indian camp. As for why Westerners aren't supposed to go there, ask the doctors who have to deal with dysentery and jaundice after the neo-saddhus have been eating and drinking in the local germs the natives are quite accustomed to.
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Date: Sat, Dec 13, 1997 at 22:24:21 (EST)
Poster: JW
Email: joger02@aol.com
To: Mr Ex
Subject: Re: Putting it into perspective
Message:
Yeah ..... I like that kind of perspective. There were almost 9,700 people past year in Long Beach. 8,000 this year. As about 5,000 new people received knowledge in west in 1997 (figures given by instructors recently) _ 4,000 to 5,000 in 96_ that means something! All these are Elan Vital’s official figures. Make your own conclusions. BigM always had a funny way to show datas, in order not to be depressed I imagine. More than 90% of the people who came to BigM left. And a lot left recently as you can calculate. 14,000 people received knowledge in 96. 17,000 in 97 (these figures include India): where are they ? Less people attended events in 97 than ever ! BigM has a very funny way of counting people attending events : he would say that 200,000 attended events in 97 because EV sold that many entrance tickets in 97 ! I The reality might be quite close to 50,000 India included. (When he says he had 2 events with 50,000 people in India, it doesn’t take into account the fact that most of them attended both of them, including 1,000 westerners). Always found it funny, never realizing what it meant : the reality is depressing ! As he likes figures and playing with his computers, he shows figures ’his’ way ! ! ! ! ! ! The reality is completely different. BigM knows it. But as information is carefully monitored in Elan Vital, it is difficult to bring all the real figures together, i.e. the numbers of people (persons) participating in every country. He probably plays with simulation softwares to figure out what to do to increase his income. He decided for 98 to do what his simulation software said. It looks like he misses some important factors. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I found this in a recent post : >M did say that God has so much mercy that he made that worm have both sexes because >he couldn't get a date. >Yes romantic love can be a bit confusing. PPR just said one more stupid thing ! Worms have both sexes : yes. At the same time : no ! They need to mate. One time as male, one time (some time later) as a female. Law of nature. Please read some school books. It looks like this Creator’s reincarnation is making some ridiculous divine mistakes ! Also, it's very interesting to remember that we used to get 15,000, or at least 12,000 at one of those stupid Birthday-of-the-Lord programs in Miami in the early 80s. Now, 15 years later, after all the plains trains and automobiles the Lord has acquired and all the countless videos he has done and he gets, was it 8700? Not very impressive when you think about it. JW
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Date: Sat, Dec 13, 1997 at 23:04:17 (EST)
Poster: Brian
Email: brian@worldnetoh.com
To: op
Subject: Re: Mishler redux (Re: Putting it into perspective)
Message:
I can't absolutely deny your post, because I wasn't an intimate of Mishler's - but I did know him well enough that he sent me a copy of his 'satsang' just after M performed the marriage ceremony - in 1973. I never knew Bob to be married before that, and certainly never saw him with a child. Are you sure you're not confusing him with someone else? I knew a premie kid named Ethan, who wasn't Mishler's son. I don't mean to open any cans of worms here - and if Mishler was secretly married the whole time - well, who'd a thunk it! Hmmm. There's the way I remember things, and then there's the way things were. Shit, I wish I wasn't so old. I would really like some verification myself on some of these points. I may have assumed that they were married, although the woman I'm thinking of was the mother of Bob's child. I remember his name as being Ethan, although at the time every ex-hippie in the world was naming their kids Ethan, Ezekiel, Aaron, etc, and I get a lot of those names mixed up. I remember it started with a vowel though. The mother was dark-haired and I still can picture her face. She sometimes left their son there while she did some thing or other, and he was a busy little kid. This was in the Denver ashram on Race street in 1972, before Montrose. Maybe they weren't actually married at the time, or maybe MJ just "re-married" them. I really wish there were more people around from that time posting here, since I only have my own memory to draw from. But I'm not confusing him with someone else. Sometimes I react strongly to posts here criticizing him, or accusing him of having lied about his time with MJ. While I don't apologize for that, I have to say that I liked and respected the man a lot and it still bothers me that he's gone. Maybe more than it should, but still it does.
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Date: Sun, Dec 14, 1997 at 02:14:33 (EST)
Poster: op
Email:
To: Brian
Subject: Re: Mishler redux (Re: Putting it into perspective)
Message:
Sometimes I react strongly to posts here criticizing him, or accusing him of having lied about his time with MJ. While I don't apologize for that, I have to say that I liked and respected the man a lot and it still bothers me that he's gone. Maybe more than it should, but still it does. Believe it or not, it bothers me too. I'm not one to feel 'he got what he deserved.' Actually I feel that if he were alive today, he'd probably be a lot more positive toward what M has done over the past 20 years than a lot of people on this site. As for Ethan being his son, it's quite possible that I always saw Ethan only with the mother, and thus never associated Bob with the family at all. What I really didn't like about Mishler's reign were the power plays. I remember coming back from an extended trip abroad, I hadn't seen M for over a year because I was what was then termed General Secretary of another country. When I asked whether there was any chance of getting a service seat, I was no longer part of the in-crowd - i.e., I didn't live at Race Street - and was thus denied. When I looked at the first few rows at the program, it was all HQ people and their cronies. And I've already told the story of India 1971, when Bob took for himself the equivalent of a penthouse suite at Prem Nagar, complete with stove and extra goodies - while the rest of us lived (at least) four to a room and ate only what was provided by the ashram premies. That's all for now.
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Date: Sun, Dec 14, 1997 at 04:37:22 (EST)
Poster: 967446345
Email: bb
To: Katie
Subject: Re: Mishler redux (Re: Putting it into perspective)
Message:
Jim called gary and mike donner. that's probably how katie heard that
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Date: Sun, Dec 14, 1997 at 09:37:41 (EST)
Poster: check on me?
Email: bb
To: CD
Subject: or beat me up. (Re: Putting it into perspective)
Message:
Hi chris, my e-mail works at bburke@rocketmail.com bill52@rocketmail.com I don't check it very often though. If someone wants a quick response it's better to add it to a post at the bottom of whatever else you are saying. But even then some days I can't get to the forum. Look, I remember that you mentioned a couple times that your tough, I can afford some damage in a few years but not till the kids are older and my wife is either dead or all fixed up. I am not sure that I have all the songs or they are in the right order, someone sent me a copy. I listened to it a few times but it is so devotional that it bugs me because I spent endless hours listening to 'focus', and 'I am bound to you' and others of course, but those were the best. You said a few bytes out of context don't do the event justice. Yes, but my main interest for years has been his evolving side. And the printed transcripts from the event are quite revealing and frankly pretty good. Again, it's the how I am supposed to view him, and the power that I have a problem with. What, do you know chris?tom? Niomi? and my other fellow gopi's in the LA area? I have almost never liked the excerpted vieos. Because i figured (rightly sometimes) that they left out the only stuff I listened to the videos to hear. The editors and I were not on the same track. I felt like they didn't know what the real guts of his talks were. Of course, at this point I am far more demanding. He was my forward momentum in understanding life. That was not wise of me to be that much of a follower. But, he is still asking for that same type of audience. He said this was the first generation of this, this lineage (i presume) and I was thinking oh man, he is not going to be the way I think he could be. But, again, it's always been wierd around the god issue, and that ain't changing for my viewing pleasure. I was thinking of writing a small book, blueprint for a messiah, and hopeing someone would try to live it out. It's got to be that power issue. It must be just really picky about who gets that close. or if not picky, just careful that not very many get a grip. perhaps I should just accept that as the way it is and sign off as soon as some more data processing is done. Your box is not finished. But
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Date: Sun, Dec 14, 1997 at 10:05:47 (EST)
Poster: Katie
Email: petkat@mail.trib.net
To: 967446345
Subject: Re: Mishler redux (Re: Putting it into perspective)
Message:
Jim called gary and mike donner. that's probably how katie heard that Thanks, bill. You are exactly right. I think it was discussed on the newsgroup at one time, too (at least about Gary Ockenden). Also, I believe Bill Patterson was mentioned on the former forum. I think I remember that from reading the archives. By the way, I feel kind of funny writing this stuff, because I don't know the people and I think it's sort of an invasion of privacy. But I can understand that John might not have time to read through the former forum archives, and the information is in there.
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Date: Sun, Dec 14, 1997 at 10:19:26 (EST)
Poster: Brian
Email: brian@worldnetoh.com
To: op
Subject: Re: Mishler redux (Re: Putting it into perspective)
Message:
Interesting development. First CD accuses me of being "congenial", and now here I am in a dialogue with you. What I really didn't like about Mishler's reign were the power plays. I remember coming back from an extended trip abroad, I hadn't seen M for over a year because I was what was then termed General Secretary of another country. When I asked whether there was any chance of getting a service seat, I was no longer part of the in-crowd - i.e., I didn't live at Race Street - and was thus denied. When I looked at the first few rows at the program, it was all HQ people and their cronies. I remember how the lines were re-drawn after Montrose too. But I took it at the time as being a side-effect of the number of premies that had suddenly relocated to the area, and a sign that I should move on to other and bigger mistakes. I chose marriage, divorce, and child-support of course. I think this is probably a symptom of the organizational virus present in every group of people, but I was dismayed to see it rear its head in the one surrounding the Lord Of The Universe. If, when I die, I should find out that the Christians were right about Heaven, I bet there will be both VIP boxes and bleachers and I'll qualify for maybe one of the cheaps seats at best. That Knowledge isn't The Great Equalizer indicates that MJ runs just another organization where the bottom line is cashflow and number-crunching. Don't you see any irony in your having believed yourself enough a part of that "in-crowd" (at least by way of title) to have qualified for a "service seat" in the first place? The sting of ommission remains. If you HAD been granted inclusion in the elite, you would have been one of the cronies. And I've already told the story of India 1971, when Bob took for himself the equivalent of a penthouse suite at Prem Nagar, complete with stove and extra goodies - while the rest of us lived (at least) four to a room and ate only what was provided by the ashram premies. Again, exclusion. Let's admit this represents abuse of power. Why is it excusable if perpetrated by MJ instead of Bob Mishler? If you were to hear that Bob had a large garage filled with expensive cars, lived in a mansion surrounded by a high wall and his own security force, and had a private jet paid for by premies supporting EV - would you consider these to be examples of abuse of position? Bob was accused in this forum of sweeping into Philadelphia and grabbing the prettiest gopi for his wife (assuming a cattle-like mentality amoung the hopeful herd). Again, let's say this is true. Did MJ pick out the fattest, ugliest gopi surrounding himself for his wife? I can see handing out criticism where it's due, but I also feel that it should be shared by EVERYONE participating in any social crimes committed.
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Date: Sun, Dec 14, 1997 at 10:38:03 (EST)
Poster: Katie
Email: petkat@mail.trib.net
To: Brian
Subject: Re: Mishler redux (Re: Putting it into perspective)
Message:
Sometimes I react strongly to posts here criticizing him, or accusing him of having lied about his time with MJ. While I don't apologize for that, I have to say that I liked and respected the man a lot and it still bothers me that he's gone. Maybe more than it should, but still it does. Dear Brian - I liked your post about Bob Mishler very much. I didn't know him at all - just heard him speak a few times - but it also bothers me when people vilify him on this forum. Three people who I am very close to (two ex-premies and one non-premie) have all read the Mishler interview, and they've all had the same reaction: first, that he comes across as a very intelligent, non-judgemental, and fair-minded person and, second, that they are sorry that he died. I felt the same way. I think that his interview is a good memorial for him. I know people have talked in here about Mishler's power trips and so forth, and perhaps what they say is true (or partially true - you and JW have said that he was a kind person.) I would hate to be judged the way he has been on this forum. I've done a lot of things that I'm not proud of, and some things that positively make me cringe when I think of them. I've apologized to some of the people involved, but of course, I can't apologize to some of the other people because I don't know where they are. At least I did have the chance to apologize, though. I know JW has apologized on this forum for things he did while in a position of power in DLM - I feel that Bob Mishler would probably do the same thing if he was able. Since he's not here to speak for himself, however, I'm glad he has people like you and JW to speak for him. And, of course, the interview speaks for him as well.
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Date: Sun, Dec 14, 1997 at 13:55:02 (EST)
Poster: Brian
Email: brian@worldnetoh.com
To: Katie
Subject: Re: Mishler redux (Re: Putting it into perspective)
Message:
I don't view the man as Saint Bob. But the last time I talked to him was in the wake of the Jonestown Massacre when he went public with what was a very big local story in the papers there. I had JUST moved back to Denver to try to reconnect with DLM in order to try to find some meaning in a dying marriage. On the drive across Wyoming, the news began to break in bits and pieces about some place called Guyana. My ex (also a premie) and I drove past the Race Street house and found it dark and the porch completely enclosed in ironwork intended to keep out those wandering premies like myself who were constantly knocking on the door or just walking in without knocking. It was very shocking to see an old friend in that state, and we both felt lost as a result. The next day Bob's story was all over the front page of the local papers. We were both stunned again, and I sought out a pay phone to call him. Got lucky, as he was listed in the book. His wife pre-screened the call, as they were getting a LOT of them. Many were premies accusing him of "betraying their Mission". Others were requests for more of his time in other interviews. Yet he still took the time to talk to me for 45 minutes about his and my feelings and experiences. He hadn't seen me for a couple of years, and wasn't even sure who I was, yet he took the time. I guess that's the main reason that he has that importance to me. He showed it to me first, and in a world where people brush you off after you journey to sit at their feet, his kindness and sensitivity to me stands out even after all this time.
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Date: Sun, Dec 14, 1997 at 17:48:12 (EST)
Poster: JW
Email: joger02@aol.com
To: Brian
Subject: Re: Mishler redux (Re: Putting it into perspective)
Message:
Interesting development. First CD accuses me of being 'congenial', and now here I am in a dialogue with you. What I really didn't like about Mishler's reign were the power plays. I remember coming back from an extended trip abroad, I hadn't seen M for over a year because I was what was then termed General Secretary of another country. When I asked whether there was any chance of getting a service seat, I was no longer part of the in-crowd - i.e., I didn't live at Race Street - and was thus denied. When I looked at the first few rows at the program, it was all HQ people and their cronies. I remember how the lines were re-drawn after Montrose too. But I took it at the time as being a side-effect of the number of premies that had suddenly relocated to the area, and a sign that I should move on to other and bigger mistakes. I chose marriage, divorce, and child-support of course. I think this is probably a symptom of the organizational virus present in every group of people, but I was dismayed to see it rear its head in the one surrounding the Lord Of The Universe. If, when I die, I should find out that the Christians were right about Heaven, I bet there will be both VIP boxes and bleachers and I'll qualify for maybe one of the cheaps seats at best. That Knowledge isn't The Great Equalizer indicates that MJ runs just another organization where the bottom line is cashflow and number-crunching. Don't you see any irony in your having believed yourself enough a part of that 'in-crowd' (at least by way of title) to have qualified for a 'service seat' in the first place? The sting of ommission remains. If you HAD been granted inclusion in the elite, you would have been one of the cronies. And I've already told the story of India 1971, when Bob took for himself the equivalent of a penthouse suite at Prem Nagar, complete with stove and extra goodies - while the rest of us lived (at least) four to a room and ate only what was provided by the ashram premies. Again, exclusion. Let's admit this represents abuse of power. Why is it excusable if perpetrated by MJ instead of Bob Mishler? If you were to hear that Bob had a large garage filled with expensive cars, lived in a mansion surrounded by a high wall and his own security force, and had a private jet paid for by premies supporting EV - would you consider these to be examples of abuse of position? Bob was accused in this forum of sweeping into Philadelphia and grabbing the prettiest gopi for his wife (assuming a cattle-like mentality amoung the hopeful herd). Again, let's say this is true. Did MJ pick out the fattest, ugliest gopi surrounding himself for his wife? I can see handing out criticism where it's due, but I also feel that it should be shared by EVERYONE participating in any social crimes committed. Touche, Brian. Very well expressed. Around MJ, there was always competition for being in the in crowd and I imagine that's still the case. You know, who gets to sit in the first rows at programs and who gets "service seats." People like OP who got downgraded from their previous exaulted status were particularly upset. Makes me cringe, that whole caste system, which I am sure exists to this day. I also firmly believe that Maharaji used that ambition, and "feeling special" by both giving and withdrawing privileges and special treatment, to get people to do what he wanted. For example, I have referred a few times to a friend of my who was M's lawyer until the late 80s. She left M, primarily because of his drinking problems, the fact that he was cheating right and left on Marolyn, and because of his material greed, a fact she found harder and harder to reconcile with her own values. Anyway, when M found out that this person wanted to leave, he began showering personal attention on her, gave her gifts, sent her overseas to a program, and even invited her to a private party at the residence and asked her to dance! [Now what could be more of an absolute heavenly dream to most of us who were entirely devoted to M and believed he was god incarnate.] Anyhow, she said it shook her, but it was obvious to her what he was doing and it make her sick. He was using the tactic of trying to get her to stay (because he needed her) by doling out personal attention and other favors. But she saw through it. I guess he was pretty drunk at the time. As to Mishler, I didn't know him well, but he seemed like a real nice guy to me. Also, in 1975 or 1976 I recall him going back to India with Maharaji when they were fighting with the rest of the holy family over money and property in India. I recall M's satsang from India was translated from Hindi and read by Charles Cameron. M said that the rest of the holy family had confused minds. Also Mishler spoke and a tape of his speech was sent around the country. I recall Mishler saying that Maharaji had brought a baby back to life (from the dead obviously) while he was there. Turned out, however, that the baby wasn't really dead in the first place, or so I was told years later. JW
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Date: Sun, Dec 14, 1997 at 17:50:59 (EST)
Poster: JW
Email: joger02@aol.com
To: Katie
Subject: Re: Mishler redux (Re: Putting it into perspective)
Message:
I don't believe I have ever said Mishler was on power trips. I have no knowledge of that.
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Date: Sun, Dec 14, 1997 at 17:51:04 (EST)
Poster: op
Email:
To: check on me?
Subject: Re: or beat me up. (Re: Putting it into perspective)
Message:
Hey Burke: Why not check your email every day? You're on line often enough... Bones to pick: how did you get ahold of the event transcripts? Did someone tape it for you? Or do you know someone in the office who handed over those that were used for the newsletters? Or did you simply read the newsletters? If your transcripts are not directly from tapes that you have heard yourself, how do you know they're correct? Second: I have almost never liked the excerpted vieos. Because i figured (rightly sometimes) that they left out the only stuff I listened to the videos to hear. The editors and I were not on the same track. I felt like they didn't know what the real guts of his talks were. The edited videos of events I've been at have cut out only those things that would be a bit weird out of context - his description of Michael Jackson's dancing, the sperm bank account in India. They had nothing to do with: Knowledge, his relationship to the premies, his relationship to Elan Vital, his work. The only exception to that: his descriptions of the techniques at practice sessions. Care to give some examples of what you mean? He said this was the first generation of this, this lineage (i presume) and I was thinking oh man, he is not going to be the way I think he could be. He said it last year too. Think about it. Has nothing to do with lineage. There has never, in written history at least, been a world-wide effort with a living master to make knowledge accessible to all, before now. The Christians stuck to a very little area in the middle east, until at least 500 years after Jeshua had disappeared from the Earth. Etc. etc. I was thinking of writing a small book, blueprint for a messiah, and hopeing someone would try to live it out. Now this! Where do you get the chutzpah to think you know what blueprint for a messiah should look like? If you do write the book, remember to say that the first rule for being a messiah is to delete all previous rules. It's got to be that power issue. Ah, yes. Who's power? You seem to be claiming quite a bit for yourself. It must be just really picky about who gets that close. or if not picky, just careful that not very many get a grip. Again, how do you know who has a grip, who gets close? You'd be surprised... If you've phased yourself out, please don't play at being the architect. There's a mirror that's constantly aiming itself at you. You can draw yourself a beautiful frame and fancy dressing all over the mirror, but when it's wiped clean - it's only you and your creator, simple and real.
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Date: Sun, Dec 14, 1997 at 18:04:58 (EST)
Poster: op
Email:
To: Brian
Subject: Re: Mishler redux (Re: Putting it into perspective)
Message:
Don't you see any irony in your having believed yourself enough a part of that 'in-crowd' (at least by way of title) to have qualified for a 'service seat' in the first place? The sting of ommission remains. If you HAD been granted inclusion in the elite, you would have been one of the cronies. Yes, I thought of that when writing, but didn't want to go into a whole long: 'I just wanted to be within sight of him, since I hadn't been at an event for such a long time. I wansn't asking for a front-row seat (though that would have been fantastic)...' etc. etc. I completely agree about the lack of equality on the premie front. There are some attempts to change that, continually - not the least coming from M himself. As for what goes on in M's private life - that's a whole other argument, and one which will never be resolved. There are those who choose to support him financially, and there are those who choose to criticize. Whether one thinks the master should be living in a mansion or a hovel, riding a donkey or driving a rolls, has a lot to do with the society one grew up with. What I do know is that M works harder than anyone else I've ever seen, that he hardly ever takes time off, involves himself in every aspect (and there are a lot of aspects) of his work. He quite literally burns his body out, and the fact that he has a rather decent place to come home to for a few days every few months doesn't bother me in the least.
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Date: Sun, Dec 14, 1997 at 18:10:21 (EST)
Poster: op
Email:
To: Katie
Subject: Re: Mishler redux (Re: Putting it into perspective)
Message:
Ok, since you are not reading the old archives: I don't know about Donner and Ockenden. I found out a year ago that Bill Patterson is currently practicing a techno-technique, and hasn't been at events recently. I don't know about his personal relationship with M.
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Date: Sun, Dec 14, 1997 at 18:14:49 (EST)
Poster: Katie
Email: petkat@mail.trib.net
To: JW
Subject: Re: Mishler redux (Re: Putting it into perspective)
Message:
I don't believe I have ever said Mishler was on power trips. I have no knowledge of that. Hey JW - I went back and read my post and I can't figure out how you think that I said that. I did say that you and Brian said that Mishler was a kind person, and I said that you had apologized for things YOU might have done while in a power postiion in DLM. I may have used too many pronouns - thus things were unclear - hope this clears it up. P.S. NICE E-MAIL ADDRESS! Is this the one you'd like us to use from now on?
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Date: Sun, Dec 14, 1997 at 18:21:41 (EST)
Poster: Katie
Email: petkat@mail.trib.net
To: op
Subject: Re: Mishler redux (Re: Putting it into perspective)
Message:
Ok, since you are not reading the old archives: I don't know about Donner and Ockenden. I found out a year ago that Bill Patterson is currently practicing a techno-technique, and hasn't been at events recently. I don't know about his personal relationship with M. Thank you, op. I do think Jim Heller told me about Donner and Ockenden - he did call them, as I recall. I HAVE read the old archives (have you ever tried? It's a long task! At least with my old computer), but I was trying to summarize things for my friend John K. (another former DC premie).
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Date: Sun, Dec 14, 1997 at 21:34:23 (EST)
Poster: CD
Email:
To: check on me?
Subject: beef bill up. (Re: Putting it into perspective)
Message:
Bill, Aren't you in New York City? It would be a friendly chat . I won't discuss peoples names on this forum who I might know. Only in private email. Take care and send me a email note some time, CD
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Date: Sun, Dec 14, 1997 at 22:30:21 (EST)
Poster: JW
Email:
To: Katie
Subject: Re: Mishler redux (Re: Putting it into perspective)
Message:
I don't believe I have ever said Mishler was on power trips. I have no knowledge of that. Hey JW - I went back and read my post and I can't figure out how you think that I said that. I did say that you and Brian said that Mishler was a kind person, and I said that you had apologized for things YOU might have done while in a power postiion in DLM. I may have used too many pronouns - thus things were unclear - hope this clears it up. P.S. NICE E-MAIL ADDRESS! Is this the one you'd like us to use from now on? Sorry, Katie, misread your post. Instead of what you wrote, which is that Brian and I said Mishler was a kind person, I read "that kind of person." Sorry. You can use either e-mail address, but this one won't get that confidential sticker from my firm. JW
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Date: Sun, Dec 14, 1997 at 22:48:10 (EST)
Poster: Christ-opher
Email: bb
To: CD
Subject: beef bill up. (Re: Putting it into perspective)
Message:
Bill, Aren't you in New York City? It would be a friendly chat . I won't discuss peoples names on this forum who I might know. Only in private email. Take care and send me a email note some time, CD Hi chris, I am happy to email you but I don't know what to say. Imagine, that line out of me. I used to be in ny. How long are you coming for? what dates? you could maybe come up and meet the crowd. It's a classic new england town I'm in. You could stay at a really fine bed and breakfast in the heart of the earliest settled town in connecticut. You coming by for family? You can email the answers.
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Date: Mon, Dec 15, 1997 at 00:29:58 (EST)
Poster: 90 mph
Email: bb
To: op
Subject: 180 degrees (Re: Putting it into perspective)
Message:
OP Why are you here? I read the newsletters. Some video's are of the event with maybe some minor exerpts, the others are chunks of this, chunks of that. You said 'there has never in written history at least, been a world wide effort with a living master to...' Living master living master master one who knows one who can recieve devotion one who you can pray to one who I can obcess over and it's proper one who knows me one who the lyrics to the songs are about one who is the lord one who will give me perfect guidance one who is the one scriptures are talking about one who is not any of those things. Why wouldn't I be able to write a small book blueprint for a messiah? I have had my lifetime and history of god on earth to resource from. You said 'what chutzpah!' Well now, I have been deeply immersed in a world of chutzpah. Amazing amounts of chutzpah. So much bad chutzpah that it's not right that this type of chutzpah gets to be put on other innocent humans around the world. You said 'ah yes, who's power? you seem to be claiming quite a bit for yourself.' Geez op, there is a friend inside that is your companion and if you want to hear about god I suggest you read the words of jesus and the proverbs. OP look, I'm sorry, it is tragic but true that in fact maharaji qualifies as evil. He was walking down the road at the residence in india and saw two premies on hands and knees doing something like cleaning the path for him and he thought, 'What idiotic service coordinater came up with that? you couldn't pay me a million bucks to do that.' and then as he passed the women one said 'thank you' and he thought 'I'd pay a million bucks for that experience' You of course will say christ burke are you claiming to read his mind across the planet? But it was in the video. I heard it, and have it, and you missed it. He is not aware of us, he is not haveing a relationship with me. He is just like us period. he banned his mom. that says a lot. 18 years. He is not the lord. I keep going back and forth because it kills me. I am ripping up the god trip everywhere and that kills me. the pope, the moonies and the mormons are next. The core of what mohammed said the core of what jesus said was live a true and honest life and love god and the rest of the folks. They gave explicit directions about what not to do in this life. And spiritual pride and falsehood are at the tip top of the list. Maharaji has blown me out the door all by himself. And he is going 90 miles an hour 180 degrees the wrong way. He made a tactical decision between last years LA event and this one. Which is that he is going to proceed full out with the lord approach. Whatever the logics he considered, he made the wrong choice. Clearly he is willing to sacrifice honesty and the truth for the image that it is the lord bringing this knowledge. Enough people are willing to play along unwittingly and so this sordid deed is going to grow and maharajianity will take root. 'All men can do what I have done and much much more' said jesus. Just because I want it to be right doesn't make it right. He has had his mid life crises, he has had time to get honest and start fresh as a happy human doing a good deed. but no. That was my hope, but he has chosen to pursue this dark way. He was my lord, he called me maha, but he is chooseing to stick himself between the real friend and power and the innocent humans. He truly must not believe there is a lord. Or he wouldn't dare pretend to be it. Chris probably wants to cancel that offer now. sorry about that.
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Date: Mon, Dec 15, 1997 at 23:56:22 (EST)
Poster: CD
Email:
To: Bill
Subject: Re: 180 degrees (Re: Putting it into perspective)
Message:
We can get together one day. I guess not at Jackie-Os though. I didn't know the stuff was so strong in Conneticut. Do you know that the people nailed Jesus up? How did that happen? You are right, the friend is inside. Friend, have fun this season, CD
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Date: Tues, Dec 16, 1997 at 01:15:27 (EST)
Poster: OOPS
Email: bb
To: OP
Subject: OP you there? (Re: Putting it into perspective)
Message:
OP,please read the post way up above, that reads -sorry about that op-
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Date: Tues, Dec 16, 1997 at 01:18:54 (EST)
Poster: DVD
Email: bb
To: CD
Subject: TO CD (Re: Putting it into perspective)
Message:
I don't want to read your post but I will, why don't you read the post way up above and then write me. the post that is titled -sorry about that op-
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Date: Thurs, Dec 11, 1997 at 18:01:10 (EST)
Poster: WHO?
Email:
To: Everyone
Subject: A new Webmaster....
Message:
This is a message from David to me (Katie - I couldn't find my way around in the dark on the start new thread page, sorry.) I would like to get other people's input on this. I really do not want to do the whole thing, don't have the technical expertise, plus I think some of the ex-premies would not like my idea of an ex-premie web page (it would be more "soft", more like Scott's page, which would mean eliminating some of the stuff that David has worked so hard on.) There is a possibility that I might be willing to cooperate with someone else in doing the page and the forum, especially someone who knows more about web pages than I do (nil). Sorry to be so non-committal, but I DON'T want to commit myself to something I cannot do. David wrote (on forum III): Listen Katie, I know I've asked you this before, but someone has to take over the site because I really can't spare any more time or effort on it. Scott started it, I expanded it, and now it needs someone to spend some time and affection rearing it to maturity. Sounds like woman's work to me! Seriously, I want to be able to find someone to take over the hotseat by the end of the year. It would be a pity if we just had to park it somewhere and watch it rust and fall apart. But I'm giving notice that I'll walk away come December 31st. It will be my New Year's Resolution. David.
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Date: Thurs, Dec 11, 1997 at 19:32:19 (EST)
Poster: JW TO WHO
Email:
To: WHO?
Subject: Re: A new Webmaster....
Message:
This is a message from David to me (Katie - I couldn't find my way around in the dark on the start new thread page, sorry.) I would like to get other people's input on this. I really do not want to do the whole thing, don't have the technical expertise, plus I think some of the ex-premies would not like my idea of an ex-premie web page (it would be more 'soft', more like Scott's page, which would mean eliminating some of the stuff that David has worked so hard on.) There is a possibility that I might be willing to cooperate with someone else in doing the page and the forum, especially someone who knows more about web pages than I do (nil). Sorry to be so non-committal, but I DON'T want to commit myself to something I cannot do. David wrote (on forum III): Listen Katie, I know I've asked you this before, but someone has to take over the site because I really can't spare any more time or effort on it. Scott started it, I expanded it, and now it needs someone to spend some time and affection rearing it to maturity. Sounds like woman's work to me! Seriously, I want to be able to find someone to take over the hotseat by the end of the year. It would be a pity if we just had to park it somewhere and watch it rust and fall apart. But I'm giving notice that I'll walk away come December 31st. It will be my New Year's Resolution. David. Thank you, Katie. I would be happy to help in any way I can. Perhaps we need a small committee, the members of which could take parts of the work, if it can be divided up. I am technically ignorant, but I am getting better. I would be happy to do editing, respond to hate-mail, or any other assignements, oh webmaster, you might assign. Joe Whalen
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Date: Thurs, Dec 11, 1997 at 21:00:44 (EST)
Poster: middleman
Email: heaven&hellrighthereonearth.calm
To: all creatures great & small
Subject: Re: A new Webmaster....
Message:
What about a cooperative effort to present both sides of everything related to Maharaj Ji.
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Date: Thurs, Dec 11, 1997 at 21:08:03 (EST)
Poster: Bobby
Email:
To: middleman
Subject: Re: A new Webmaster....
Message:
What about a cooperative effort to present both sides of everything related to Maharaj Ji. I might be interested in collaborating in some of this sort of effort. I'm into free exchange of information, with various views respected and presented.
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Date: Thurs, Dec 11, 1997 at 21:24:32 (EST)
Poster: Sir David
Email: djulian@cix.compulink.co.uk
To: Bobby
Subject: Re: A new Webmaster....
Message:
I thought this Forum presented both sides of the argument, that is when premies feel like posting messages. I think if we had a seperate forum for Pro Maharaji stuff then that would soon fall into the same catagory of the old Premie web site which Maharaji banned. I cannot help with the web site here myself because I'm still only using an old 386 computer and it can't run modern web software at any usable speed.
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Date: Thurs, Dec 11, 1997 at 21:58:05 (EST)
Poster: Katie
Email: petkat@mail.trib.net
To: Bobby & Middleman
Subject: Re: A new Webmaster....
Message:
What about a cooperative effort to present both sides of everything related to Maharaj Ji. I might be interested in collaborating in some of this sort of effort. I'm into free exchange of information, with various views respected and presented. I am strongly in favor of the web site being a place where ex-premies can share their stories and get support, and where aspirants and interested people can find out more about Maharaji from people other than premies. I don't think including pro-Maharaji information on the site would serve this purpose. (Basically, I'm not interested in helping to propagate Knowledge.) I agree with David Simpkiss that the forum is the appropriate place for practicing premies to share their experiences for the meantime (until they choose to make another web site or drop off the web entirely). However, David Stirling did have a link to the premie site before it went down, and I'm sure who ever continues running the site would be happy to provide a link to a new premie web site. It was my understanding, however, that GMJ did not want premies to talk about Knowledge, or about himself, on the Internet, so I don't know if premies would be able to set up this kind of site, or even provide any kind of pro-Maharaji information (I'm assuming that ex-premies wouldn't still be into propagating the Maharaji/Knowledge package!)
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Date: Fri, Dec 12, 1997 at 07:50:45 (EST)
Poster: can we keep just the forum?
Email: bb
To: WHO?
Subject: Bing the page back later? (Re: A new Webmaster....)
Message:
I would be willing to help out in some way.
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Date: Fri, Dec 12, 1997 at 11:53:18 (EST)
Poster: JW
Email:
To: Katie
Subject: Re: A new Webmaster....
Message:
I agree strongly with both David and Katie. The focus of the site should be ex-premies, although, as we have seen, ex-premies are far from being a homogeneous group and have a wide-range of viewpoints. I think the "permanent" site is important, as is the archives, because the forum should be available for open discussion. Presenting "both sides" is VERY difficult, espcially when ex-premies are presenting the "pro" side. If premies disagree with how M is presented, they are free to post on the site and say so and those posts also go into the archives. JW
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Date: Sat, Dec 13, 1997 at 00:44:33 (EST)
Poster: Butchoover
Email: Butchoover
To: middleman
Subject: Re: A new Webmaster....
Message:
I agree. I had direct and personal dealings with Bob Mischler and found Mischler to be a self-serving maniac and Patterson to be a humble and honest guy. Believe me, I,ve had my doubts about Maharaj-Ji but the meditation and faith that i've developed as well as the resultant perspective have overwhelmed any of the possible negative conclusions about him. Basically, in summary, it's worked for me. this, is in spite of my non-premied wife and children. I don't have the time or energy to dwell on whether Maharaj-Ji is what he is purported to be. All i know is that the majority of the people that I come in contact with are basically idiots or just plain desparate. i can confidently say that after 26 years of being a premie, i have a different and, apparently, unique perspective on life, despite my own financial problems. To each his own.
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Date: Sat, Dec 13, 1997 at 22:41:01 (EST)
Poster: JW
Email: joger02@aol.com
To: Butchoover
Subject: Re: A new Webmaster....
Message:
I agree. I had direct and personal dealings with Bob Mischler and found Mischler to be a self-serving maniac and Patterson to be a humble and honest guy. Believe me, I,ve had my doubts about Maharaj-Ji but the meditation and faith that i've developed as well as the resultant perspective have overwhelmed any of the possible negative conclusions about him. Basically, in summary, it's worked for me. this, is in spite of my non-premied wife and children. I don't have the time or energy to dwell on whether Maharaj-Ji is what he is purported to be. All i know is that the majority of the people that I come in contact with are basically idiots or just plain desparate. i can confidently say that after 26 years of being a premie, i have a different and, apparently, unique perspective on life, despite my own financial problems. To each his own. Well, I guess this just goes to show you how different a perspective can be. In didn't know Mishler well, but to the extent I encountered him, he was always very nice to me, even though I was a peon in the mission at the time. I knew Patterson a LOT better and actually spent a lot of time with him. He was really a great guy, although a bit unlike any person I have ever met. He also was very kind to me, personally. I know he also dumped Maharaji at some point, and considering the one-pointedness of his dedication to Maharaji when I knew him, which I envied greatly at the time, I never thought I would see THAT happen. I'm glad to hear that meditation has "worked" for you. I think there are many people, including me, who think M is a fraud, but nevertheless acknowledge the value of meditation. It can slow your mind down and cause you to reevaluate life from a new perspective. It can be a valuable tool, but it is nothing more than that. And it is available lots of places. I think if I had been like you and didn't deal at all with "who{Maharaji] purported to be" and just took the knowlege and went on with my life, I think I would have been okay. But you see, Maharaji told me that what he was REALLY offering was not meditation, or knowledge, but the opportunity to devote one's your life to him. And, unfortunately, I believed him because he presented himself as god incarnate walking on the planet, and because I was young and idealistic and I really wanted to believe it was true. I think M is fraudulent, not because he has advocated the value of meditation, but because he puts himself up as the source of the experience you have when you meditate and also because, as I mentioned, he turned a path of meditation into a path of devotion to HIM. Many people who got caught up in that scheme got hurt pretty badly because they expended many years of their lives, devalued their relationships, limited their personal freedom, and suspended their own values in order to do that. And he made out like a bandit in the process. I have heard few people say there isn't some value in meditation. JW
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Date: Thurs, Dec 11, 1997 at 17:09:28 (EST)
Poster: JW
Email:
To: Everyone
Subject: Archives Digest
Message:
What has happened to it? It has been gone for some time now.
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Date: Thurs, Dec 11, 1997 at 18:20:20 (EST)
Poster: David
Email: d@vid
To: JW
Subject: Re: Message to Anon. (Re: Archives Digest)
Message:
What has happened to it? It has been gone for some time now. The Archives Digest was compiled by Anon. He pulled the plug on it some months back when I objected to him changing pages on the site without asking me. I must admit that I objected in fairly brusque style because it was a time of babies and sleepless nights, but I've since apologised. As to why he can't reconnect his contribution, you'll have to ask him. David
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Date: Thurs, Dec 11, 1997 at 19:29:36 (EST)
Poster: JW
Email: whalenj@fbm.com
To: David
Subject: Re: Message to Anon. (Re: Archives Digest)
Message:
Anon, if you can reconnect the Digest I would greatly appreciated it. Whoever compiled the Digest did an excellent job and it really helps a lot of people who are trying to get a sense of the kind of discussions that have gone one here. It's an excellent tool for people. Thanks again. JW
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Date: Thurs, Dec 11, 1997 at 19:48:24 (EST)
Poster: Katie
Email: petkat@mail.trib.net
To: Anon (a.k.a. St. Jerome the Scribner?)
Subject: Re: Message to Anon. (Re: Archives Digest)
Message:
Dear Anon - I would also like it very much if you could reconnect the Archives Digest. It helped me a lot when I first found the ex-premie site. For example, I had known a lot of ashram premies, but I never knew what life was like for some of them until I read the "Ashram" part of the digests. I also had friends who worked on refurbishing the plane in Miami, and I'd like to give them print-outs of the "Where's the Plane?" digest if possible. I used to refer people who were new to the ex-premie site to the Archive Digests all the time - they really helped one get a sense of what had gone on in DLM/EV through time. Thanks very much, Katie
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Date: Thurs, Dec 11, 1997 at 14:32:50 (EST)
Poster: bftb
Email:
To: Everyone
Subject: As yet unexplained(?)
Message:
I can recall reading a recent post of Deena's where she talked about having a 'darshan dream'.I'm not sure if this has been covered before,(please indulge me for a moment if it has)but I'm interested in this. I have heard of other premmies talking about 'mystical' or 'unexplainable' experiences before;and I wonder how these phenomona can be reconciled with Maharaji's supposed fraudulence? I guess some would say that"wishful thinking can convince anyone of anything;even that an experience generated by parts of their own brain(that we do not yet understand at all),were in fact 'mystical' experiences" or"you get what you hope for" or "create this much mythology around anyone and I guarantee you that you'll have mystical experiences around them or their circles"...... the puzzling thing is though;that I've heard of these stories from premmies who'd not yet heard of Maharaji and"met him in a dream"and after a dream like that would seek him out. So a scientist/psychodynamist can explain EVERYTHING.....but still all the unexplainable stuff remains. And if people have really had 'unexplainable' experiences,are they necessarilly attributable to Maharaji?or does the 'mystery' reveal/give glimpses of itself by proxy?(you know,something like:"well;they're sincere;so I may as well give 'em something even though they'll confuse the source") As you can tell I really do find the mystical stuff confusing.Anyone out there not confused and willing to enlighten me?((Enlightenment?Here? )
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Date: Thurs, Dec 11, 1997 at 15:27:43 (EST)
Poster: bobby
Email:
To: bftb
Subject: Re: As yet unexplained(?)
Message:
I have heard of other premmies talking about 'mystical' or 'unexplainable' experiences before;and I wonder how these phenomona can be reconciled with Maharaji's supposed fraudulence? I think that there are issues behind what you are investigating here and these issues are important. For instance: is there such a thing as "objective reality". Or is it indeed "all a dream"? It seems like people hear Buddhists talk about the dreamlike nature of reality and just assume this is a poetic figure of speech. But what if it all is dream. Sure seems that way to me. Really. For me, Buddhism holds some of the most viable explanations of "the way it is". Buddhists speak of objective reality and dream reality and realities that may be achieved through visualization processes as ontologically equal. In other words, all that exists is just phenomena. Buddhists say there is nothing fundamentally, objectively real that can stand by itself. Nothing exists independently of anything else.
In my view, many folks have had authentic spiritual experiences with Maharaji. Spiritual authenticity lies with the perceiver and experiencer. Authenticity is independent of whether an objective event is real, or false, or fraudulent. Is Jesus real? Is Buddha real? Is Clinton real? Is Hitler real? Is Maharaji real? Who is Guru Maharaji? Who are we? What is reality? Tibetan Buddhists do elaborate deity yogas. Practitioners visualize themselves as Buddha deities with supreme, beatific attributes. There is lots of guru yoga going on with the Buddhists. The Dalai Lama is the incarnation of Avalokiteshvara, the Bodhisattva of Compassion. Supreme, unexcelled compassion for every sentient being. Are Tibetan Buddhists frauds?
I've met lots of people in lots of situations who have followed lots of spiritual practices or who have had lots of different profound experiences. For small children, life is a profound experience. Are they deluded? Do we grownup scientists know "the way it is"? God comes in whatever form she needs to. Sri Ramakrishna held extensive conversations with God as the boy Ram and as Kali-ma the mother. For awhile, he dressed up as a woman gopi and ate scraps of food in the streets with the dogs. God is also in the dogs and the cemetaries. For some perhaps God comes as Maharaji. Does anyone ever get authentic experience through the television evangelists? How bout the folks that worship shiva lingam? How bout the money devotees, those who worship pictures of dead presidents? Just asking. I often think reality is absurd.
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Date: Thurs, Dec 11, 1997 at 16:05:55 (EST)
Poster: Sir David
Email: djulian@cix.compulink.co.uk
To: bobby
Subject: Re: As yet unexplained(?)
Message:
I agree with much of what you say Bobby. When I was a young boy I truly believed in fairies and would often have dreams of them. My eldest daughter Jasmine, now six is also convinced in the reality of fairies and that they know everything. There are people who are convinced that they have seen "little people" who are only about two feet high. I read on the net that a doctor tried an experiment with students and got them all to practise something akin to the light technique and many of them saw light and even saw people in the light. People who've had near death experiences talk about "waking up" into a reality which is even more real than this one. And I am now currently investigating claims from a British scientist here, that a boy who has passed on or died and now living in the spirit world, has manifested into this world many times, including in front of his parents who were able to touch him. This scientist has supposedly been told that the "dead" people in the spirit world say that this world is just on a different frequency to theirs and they are using their science to come back to our frequency so that they can tell loved ones that they are OK and very happy. There is much, much we do not yet know.
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Date: Thurs, Dec 11, 1997 at 18:15:19 (EST)
Poster: JW
Email:
To: bftb
Subject: Re: As yet unexplained(?)
Message:
I can recall reading a recent post of Deena's where she talked about having a 'darshan dream'.I'm not sure if this has been covered before,(please indulge me for a moment if it has)but I'm interested in this. I have heard of other premmies talking about 'mystical' or 'unexplainable' experiences before;and I wonder how these phenomona can be reconciled with Maharaji's supposed fraudulence? I guess some would say that'wishful thinking can convince anyone of anything;even that an experience generated by parts of their own brain(that we do not yet understand at all),were in fact 'mystical' experiences' or'you get what you hope for' or 'create this much mythology around anyone and I guarantee you that you'll have mystical experiences around them or their circles'...... the puzzling thing is though;that I've heard of these stories from premmies who'd not yet heard of Maharaji and'met him in a dream'and after a dream like that would seek him out. So a scientist/psychodynamist can explain EVERYTHING.....but still all the unexplainable stuff remains. And if people have really had 'unexplainable' experiences,are they necessarilly attributable to Maharaji?or does the 'mystery' reveal/give glimpses of itself by proxy?(you know,something like:'well;they're sincere;so I may as well give 'em something even though they'll confuse the source') As you can tell I really do find the mystical stuff confusing.Anyone out there not confused and willing to enlighten me?((Enlightenment?Here? ) I think an "unexplainable" experience might be "unexplainable" because the person would like it to be so. It makes one feel special or "high" to have experiences that supposedly can't be "explained." When it comes to "darshan dreams" I have (rarely) had those both during the time I was a premie and since, although I would consider some of them "darshan nightmares." If you define a "darshan dream" as a dream with Maharaji in it, I don't think it's surprising people have them, considering how much of a premie's waking hours are spent thinking about, and being devoted to him. Also, I think it's all part of group-suggestion as well. Remember how often people used to faint after darshan at big programs? It was hundreds if not thousands of people. There were elaborate rooms set up where passed-out premies were to recover. I always felt I wasn't devoted or surrendered enough because I never fainted, or cried, or did much of anything except I recall I felt kind of ridiculous and I wondered if I "did it right." I always also noticed during darshan how fat and greasy Maharaji was and that I found him rather repulsive. This made me feel guilty too. Anyway, I recall one big program held in a hall that didn't have space for the "fainting rooms." So Joe Anctil made an announcement from the stage to "please do not faint" and you know what? Almost no one did. So much for unexplainable, powerful experiences. Joe
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Date: Fri, Dec 12, 1997 at 00:15:16 (EST)
Poster: Michael
Email: mgdbach@ziplink.net
To: JW
Subject: Re: As yet unexplained(?)
Message:
I had one darshan dream, but it was during a period when I was thinking about Maharaji all the time. I think that we tend to put too much importance upon dreams. When I wake in the morning and remember my dreams, I can trace every dream to stimuli from the day before. I think that dreams are the product of our brains sorting through the day's data and deciding what to keep. Dreams are flickers of the day's information, and the reason dreams have such strange "story lines" is because our minds (not in the Big M sense) try to string the images together in order to make some sense of the flickering.
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Date: Fri, Dec 12, 1997 at 23:49:37 (EST)
Poster: I have input anyway
Email: not right now
To: Michael et al
Subject: Re: who asked you? (Re: As yet unexplained(?))
Message:
I agree with Michael basically - I think sleeptime is when the mind organizes data into its semipermanent file cabinets. And I agree that a lot of so-called Darshan Dreams are wish-fulfillment gone awry. There is also, however, another family of dreams. Perhaps they have the same base (our own inner knowledge), but they tap into things we HAVEN'T dealt with in the state - premonitions, extra-sensory communication. Sometimes they are warnings and messages (my daughter had a severe infection, of which I saw only minimal outward signs - I had a nightmare about death and woke up with the message: I've got to take her to the hospital); sometimes they are communications (I dreamed about a spiritual course a friend of mine was taking, and was left with questions about it. She was spending some time in the wilderness - no phone, etc. - but went into town and called me that morning for the first time in months). These don't happen very often - at least not to us folk. op
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Date: Fri, Dec 12, 1997 at 23:53:10 (EST)
Poster: ignore the last message
Email: nor now
To: I have input anyway
Subject: Re: who asked you? (Re: As yet unexplained(?))
Message:
I'm reposting this because I tried using side carets for quotation marks and the words were erased. This is the post in its entirety: I agree with Michael basically - I think sleeptime is when the mind organizes data into its semipermanent file cabinets. And I agree that a lot of so-called Darshan Dreams are wish-fulfillment gone awry. There is also, however, another family of dreams. Perhaps they have the same base (our own inner knowledge), but they tap into things we HAVEN'T dealt with in the 'waking' state - premonitions, extra-sensory communication. Sometimes they are warnings and messages (my daughter had a severe infection, of which I saw only minimal outward signs - I had a nightmare about death and woke up with the message: I've got to take her to the hospital); sometimes they are communications (I dreamed about a spiritual course a friend of mine was taking, and was left with questions about it. She was spending some time in the wilderness - no phone, etc. - but went into town and called me that morning for the first time in months). These don't happen very often - at least not to us 'regular' folk. op
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Date: Sat, Dec 13, 1997 at 03:41:48 (EST)
Poster: Mili
Email:
To: bftb
Subject: Re: Dream (Re: As yet unexplained(?))
Message:
This is a nice story that Maharaji often tells about this subject: The King's Dream A king dreams one night that he has lost a battle, his soldiers, his kingdom, and his wealth. He is forced to flee for his life in the rain through a cold, miserable jungle. In the dream, the king is hungry and tired, so when he comes across a hut, he asks the woman inside if she can give him some food. The woman replies that while she does not have any food prepared, she can give him some lentils and rice that he can cook for himself. The king takes the rice and lentils and tries to cook them, but the wood is wet and the ground is muddy. When he finally lights a fire, the smoke gets in his eyes. At last the food is cooked, and the king places it on a big leaf to cool. Suddenly, two fighting bulls charge through the jungle right where the king has prepared his food. The bulls trample on the leaf, mixing the lentils and rice into the dirt. That, for the tired and hungary king, is the limit. In his agony, he starts to cry, and the tears rolling down his cheeks wake him up. He opens his eyes and sees, to his surprise, that he is in his exquisite palace. His servants are fanning him, and he is lying in his beautiful velvet-covered royal bed. Everything around him is gold and marble. He gets up and tries to ready himself for court, but he is still dazed and puzzled by the dream. The king finally goes downstairs, but instead of answering people's questions as he usually does when holding court, he relates the story of his dream. Then he asks if anyone can tell him which is real - the nightmare or what he is seeing before him. He promises that whoever answers the question will receive his kingdom. The news of the king's offer travels quickly, and many people come before him to give their explanations. One person tells him that the dream was a nightmare, because when he woke up, he found himself in his palace where everything was in order. But that did not satisfy the king. The dream had affected him so deeply that he did not know whether he was dreaming then or dreaming now. Could he really be a poor wretch, lying in the mud, imagining that he is a king again? Finally, a crippled boy named Ashtrabakra comes before the king. Everybody starts laughing and makes fun of him because they think he looks strange. Immediately, Ashtrabakra shouts out, "O king, why have you called me to the Court of Idiots?" The king is a little surprised because before him are some of the most learned men in the whole kingdom. But Ashtrabakra continues, "These people are idiots. They look at my body and judge me for what they see." "Do they not know that there is more to a person than is visible to the eyes?" Everybody became very quiet. Finally the king asks Ashtrabakra his question. The crippled boy says, "My king, the dream was not real; it was a nightmare. But neither is any of this real. The kingdom you think is yours is not yours. The palace you think is yours is not yours. The bed that you think is yours is not yours. You seek false comfort. What you truly seek is contentment. What you truly seek is a reality which is neither in your nightmare, nor in this dream before you." Seeing that his question has been answered, the king offers his kingdom to Ashtrabakra. But the crippled boy replies, "I just told you, my king, that this is all a dream, and now you are giving me a dream? Continue with your kingdom, but keep what you have understood and learned. That is real."
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Date: Sat, Dec 13, 1997 at 03:55:36 (EST)
Poster: premies just pass this one by.
Email: bb
To: Sunshine boy
Subject: More blabber from the burke (Re: As yet unexplained(?))
Message:
And if people have really had 'unexplainable' experiences,are they necessarilly attributable to Maharaji?or does the 'mystery' reveal/give glimpses of itself by proxy?(you know,something like:'well;they're sincere;so I may as well give 'em something even though they'll confuse the source') Bingo! Jesus said, what I have done all men can do.(and he did alot of unusual things to say the least) and, 'while I am in the world, I am the light of the world' don't overlook the 'while'. This is muslim month I guess, now I'm working with a sunni muslim, after being with shiites for a few days a couple weeks ago. Now when I mention that to the sunni, his face contorts slightly in disapproval. He is a sunni and mohammed shmohammed, were different, shiites and sunnis don't become one in the spirit so to speak. America was VERY like that a couple generations ago, less so now. But each one of them are devout muslims, and have had 'great' experiences of god. Who is giving them both that? Of course THEY will both say mohammed, but they wouldn't like to be in the same room and hear each other say that. Actually I have come to like muslims explanations, there is no 'he died for our sins' logic. How about burke's law? two things occupy the same space at the same time. You, and the bigger part you came from. That part is concious, and, based on the responses you can get in life, apparently aware of your little moment to moment mood swings. Turning, or rather, moving your attention to it in some fashion can get you a response. It's not just people who read the word's of the big historical guns that get a little something, acid heads or nature freaks or people never taught about anything have that resource willing to interact in thier life. It probably doesn't matter how we view it except that if I am going to be part of any group I am going to have some confusion added to my viewpoint. If it's a workable illusion for you then fine, but I don't want to watch the priest in his outfit, I don't want to wear a yamulka and grow my fortlocks, I don't want to wear a turban and chant sa-ta-na-ma, I don't want to look to mecca 5 times a day, I don't want to think saturday is the day to worship god, I don't want to think sunday is either, I don't want to try and guess what worship is, I don't want to love someone deeply who doesn't feel that. If there is someone to thank for a experience inside, then that is the awareness, or friend, that is the one that can here me, that is the responder, that is the knower, that is the only one that really knew me and my little aspects, and my quiet side, and in that knowing, if I was happy being a muslim, I get response in that way. Again, jesus said another good one, 'As you believe, so shall it be done unto you' That is a real helpful line. And, 'If you believe it is so, then it is so'. That's the playing rules of the friend responder. But I must say, that jesus and the proverbs had some strong words about falsehood and pretense. I regret that maharaji is so influenced by that god awful hindu belief that it's ok to let others worship god through you. Some of the things he said in LA are right down my alley, but I have been unable thus far to come up with any form of excuse or good reason for the strong devotion to him angle that was also quite present in the music and some of his words. Except for my old standby, that the power really doesn't want anybody getting very far doing what he is doing, so he is blessed with a nice dose of misperception. And frankly, I don't think it will be a good precedent to have the lord of the age have the type of shadow he has, future people will use him as a guidestick for measureing what is ok and what is acceptable to do in this life. His self admitted long term entrapment in hate,darkness, greed,I fergit what else he said,(but I have the video's) has played a part in his life and his relating to others, and when my great grandchild goes to get confirmed by amar's son, don't think maharaji's personal life won't steer a lot of people into thinking that being regularly enraged at people is just fine, and the mistress thing is real swell, and the stories that will come out from all the other's who were up close and personal will add up to alot, and that it's ok to have people think you are god and have the music and the hint's and yet you know you aren't. If you can't feel my devotion, or feelings to you, do we have a relationship? Sorry, the answer is no. And to bring this to millions is not applaudable even if going inside is involved. Of course it's not like the god track record is all that honorable anywear, it didn't take long for the communion 'host' to be a sanctified reality of the 'presence' of god. for billions (over the years). Wierd arena, this god on earth issue. But the clearest I can see is the freind inside angle. >As you can tell I really do find the mystical stuff >confusing.Anyone out there not confused and willing to >enlighten me?((Enlightenment?Here? ) 76587
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Date: Sat, Dec 13, 1997 at 07:54:26 (EST)
Poster: Don't read the above post,
Email: bb
To: 9685864
Subject: this one is in the right type (Re: As yet unexplained(?))
Message:
>And if people have really had unexplanable experiences, >are they necessarily attributal to naharaji? or does the >'mystery give glimpses of itself by proxy? well, they are >sincere, so I might as well give them something even >though they will confuse the source. Bingo! Jesus said, what I have done all men can do.(and he did a lot of unuseual things to say the least!) and he said ' while I am in this world I am the light of the world' don't overlook the 'while'. This is muslim month I guess, Now I'm working with a sunni muslim, after being with shiites for a few days. Now when I mention that to the sunni,his face contorts slightly in disapproval. He is a sunni and mohammed shmohammed, we are different, shiites and sunni don't become one in the spirit so to speak. America was very like that a couple generations ago, less so now. But each one of them are devout muslims, and have had "great' experiences of god. Who is giving them both that? Of course THEY will both say mohammed, but they wouldn't like to be in the same room and hear each other say that. Actually I have come to like thier lack of the 'he died for our sins' logic. How about burkes' law? two things cannot occupy the same space at the same time. You, and the bigger part you came from, that bigger part is concious, and, based on the responses you can get in life, apparently aware of your little moment to moment mood swings. Turning, or rather, moving your attention to it in some fashion can get you a response. It's not just people who read the word's of the big historical guns that get a little something, acid heads, or nature freaks, or people never taught about anything have that resource willing to interact in thier life. It probably doesn't matter how we view it except that if I am going to be part of any group, I am going to have some confusion added to my viewpoint. If it's a workable illusion for you then fine, but I dont want to watch the priest in his dress, I dont want to wear a yamulka and grow my fortlocks, I don't want to wear a turban and chant sa ta na ma, I dont want to look at mecca 5 times a day, I don't want to think saturday is the day to worship god, I dont want to think sunday is either, I don't want totry to guess what worship is, I don't want to love somebody deeply who doesn't feel that. If there is somebody to thank for an experience inside, then that is the awareness, or friend, that is the one that can hear me, that is the responder, that is the knower, that is the only one that really knoew me and my little aspects, and my quiet side, and in that knowing, if I was happy being a muslim, I get response in that way. Again, jesus said another good one, 'as you believe, so it shall be done unto you' That is a really helpful line. And 'If you believe it is so, then it is so'. That's the playing rules of the friend responder. But I must say, that jesus and the proverbs had some strong words about falsehood and pretense. I regret that maharaji is so influenced by that god awful hindu belief that it's ok to let others worship god through you. Some of the things he said in LA are right down my alley, but I have been unable thus far to come with any form of excuse or good reason for the strong devotion to him angle that was also quite present in the music and some of his words. Except for my old standby, that the power really doesn't want anybody getting very far doing what he is doing, so he is blessed with a nice dose of misperception. And, frankly, I don't think it will be a good precedent to have the lord of the age have the type of shadow he has, future people will use him as a guidestick for measureing what is ok and what is acceptable to do in this life. His self admitted long term entrapment in anger,darkness, greed, I fergit what else he said,(but I have the video's) has played a part in his life and his relating to others, and when my great grandchild goes to get confirmed by amars' son, don't think maharaji's personal life won't steer a lot of people into thinking that being regularly enraged at people is just fine, and the mistress thing is real swell, and the stories that will coame out from all the other's who were up close and personal will add up to a lot, and that it's ok to have people think you are god and have the music and the hint's and yet you know you aren't. If you cn't feel my devotion, or feelings for you, do we have a relationship? Sorry, the answer is no. And to bring that to millions is not applaudable even of going inside is involved. Of course it's not like the god track record is all that honorable anyway, it didn't take long for the communion 'host' to be a sanctified reality of the presence' of god. for billions, over the years. Wierd arena, this god on earth issue. But the clearest I can see is the friend inside angle.
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Date: Sat, Dec 13, 1997 at 18:24:17 (EST)
Poster: Katie
Email: petkat@mail.trib.net
To: bftb
Subject: Re: As yet unexplained(?)
Message:
Dear Bftb, I can't say that I'm not confused, but here is my experience: I have had dreams where I dreamed about future events before they happened. These events were almost always insignificant, but I did dream about places and people that I had never seen before. I've also had dreams about people who I was close to when they were in a lot of mental or physical pain, or (in one case) dying - I think many people have experienced this phenomena. I've heard of several cases in which people that I knew dreamed about their children when their children were in some kind of distress. You wrote: "if people have really had 'unexplainable' experiences,are they necessarilly attributable to Maharaji?or does the 'mystery' reveal/give glimpses of itself by proxy?(you know,something like:'well;they're sincere;so I may as well give 'em something even though they'll confuse the source') I have read true stories in which people who were following all kinds of people who follow all kinds of saints, gurus, and charlatans have had dreams about them. Some of these dreams were predictive. So I don't think premies dreaming about Maharaji before they meet him is proof that Maharaji is god, or whatever (not sure what you mean by fraudulent? It depends on what you think he's pretending to be.) I think these dreams come from inside the people themselves, but that's just my humble opinion. Also, predictive dreams do raise the question of whether time is actually linear or do we just perceive it that way.
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Date: Thurs, Dec 11, 1997 at 10:59:18 (EST)
Poster: David
Email: ds@ex-premie.org
To: Everyone
Subject: Who put out the lights?
Message:
Aaaarrrggghhhhh!!!! I thought these changes were going too smoothly. I should have left well alone whilst I was ahead! For anyone who hasn't realised, the posting page has now gone black. I've tried everything and I can't get it to come back to normal. I'll keep trying, but in the meantime... The top left box is for 'Author', the top right is 'Subject', under those on the left is 'Post to' and in the middle is 'Email address'. Below the message box are the optional link pages which no-one ever used so you won't miss them! Normal service will be resumed sometime in the New Year. But if anyone has any ideas... let me know.
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Date: Thurs, Dec 11, 1997 at 11:03:59 (EST)
Poster: David
Email: gone@way
To: All
Subject: Re: Who put out the lights?
Message:
P.S. It's only when you try and post a new thread that the lights go off. The message page seems okay. But hang about, perhaps I could make a few changes here...
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Date: Thurs, Dec 11, 1997 at 11:19:54 (EST)
Poster: David
Email: ds@ex-premie.org
To: Everyone
Subject: Re: Paradise to the rescue? (Re: Who put out the lights?)
Message:
I've asked Paradise for some advice so hopefully they will be able to help. Trouble is, they're in the process of moving! Scott...........
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Date: Thurs, Dec 11, 1997 at 12:15:59 (EST)
Poster: ds
Email: ds@ex-premie.org
To: all
Subject: Re: There is an alternative... (Re: Who put out the lights?)
Message:
Forum III is working okay over at http://www.paradise-web.com/plus/plus.mirage?who=george That is until I start messing about with it...
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Date: Thurs, Dec 11, 1997 at 15:05:31 (EST)
Poster: ds
Email: d@vid
To: all
Subject: Re: There is an alternative... (Re: Who put out the lights?)
Message:
Click here to go the other Forum. Now that's what I call service!
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Date: Thurs, Dec 11, 1997 at 10:32:34 (EST)
Poster: David
Email: ds@ex-premie.org
To: Everyone
Subject: Bye bye blondie
Message:
I hope everyone won't mind the slaying of Mr Cool from the heading. I did it while Scott was away on hols but I don't think he'll mind.
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Date: Thurs, Dec 11, 1997 at 11:21:02 (EST)
Poster: Katie
Email: petkat@mail.trib.net
To: David
Subject: Re: Bye bye blondie
Message:
I hope everyone won't mind the slaying of Mr Cool from the heading. I did it while Scott was away on hols but I don't think he'll mind. Very nice, David (and a fond farewell to Blondie and the dripping Maharaji picture!). I like the white background too. Good luck with the black background, but perhaps we can figure it out. (If not, we'll just end up with posts like Bill's, which might be OK...)
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Date: Thurs, Dec 11, 1997 at 12:17:49 (EST)
Poster: David
Email: ds@ex-premie.org
To: Katie
Subject: Re: Bye bye blondie
Message:
Thanks, Katie. I think I'll now go lie down in a darkened room for a while...
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Date: Thurs, Dec 11, 1997 at 12:17:58 (EST)
Poster: David
Email: ds@ex-premie.org
To: Katie
Subject: Re: Bye bye blondie
Message:
Thanks, Katie. I think I'll now go lie down in a darkened room for a while...
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Date: Thurs, Dec 11, 1997 at 12:19:24 (EST)
Poster: ds
Email: p@ranoid
To: David
Subject: Re: Bye bye blondie
Message:
Is there an echo or is that just my fevered imagination?
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Date: Thurs, Dec 11, 1997 at 05:59:23 (EST)
Poster: Anon
Email:
To: Everyone
Subject: What has Adrian Mole got to do with
Message:
1: This forum is better than the other. 2:There is too much off topic chatter.(what has Adrian Mole got to do with Maharaji?) 3:Have some consideration for people who have to archive all this stuff. 4:How can anyone hope to quickly find relevant posts, when the board is cluttered with irrelevance? 5:Sometimes looking in here is like listening to crossed lines with bored housewives talking about their hairdo's or something. Way off topic. 6: This is a public forum , as I understood to have been created for debate about GMJ etc. why not chat via email? Anon
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Date: Thurs, Dec 11, 1997 at 06:51:18 (EST)
Poster: Anon! Please post once in a while
Email: bb
To: Anon
Subject: I have missed you (Re: What has Adrian Mole got to do with)
Message:
87657484633764
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Date: Thurs, Dec 11, 1997 at 09:40:53 (EST)
Poster: Katie
Email: petkat@mail.trib.net
To: Anon
Subject: Re: What has Adrian Mole got to do with
Message:
Dear Anon - I am the one who brought up some of the off topic stuff - like Adrian Mole. I am sorry! Actually, I don't feel that it was totally off topic, because I did want to know if it was an accurate representation of some forms of British culture, in order to understand some of you guys a little better (besides, David Simpkiss kept mentioning Noddy...) But, you are right, most of it was way off topic, although not as bad, I hope, as bored people talking about their hair styles. Also, I think we should be able to have fun on here sometimes even if it is "off topic". I tend to be a very serious person, yesterday was a bad day for me, and joking with David, Mike and Bobby really cheered me up. (That was one thing I disliked about being a premie - I never felt like we could just have fun...except at times when it was okayed by GMJ - like Holi. This might have stemmed more from my conditioning than anything else, but I do know that other people felt that way too.) I hope you keep posting on the board - people have told me that they miss your messages. Regards, Katie
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Date: Thurs, Dec 11, 1997 at 11:00:18 (EST)
Poster: Mind Police
Email: Giggles.com
To: Katie
Subject: Re: What has Adrian Mole got to do with
Message:
Dear Anon - I am the one who brought up some of the off topic stuff - like Adrian Mole. I am sorry! Actually, I don't feel that it was totally off topic, because I did want to know if it was an accurate representation of some forms of British culture, in order to understand some of you guys a little better (besides, David Simpkiss kept mentioning Noddy...) But, you are right, most of it was way off topic, although not as bad, I hope, as bored people talking about their hair styles. Also, I think we should be able to have fun on here sometimes even if it is 'off topic'. I tend to be a very serious person, yesterday was a bad day for me, and joking with David, Mike and Bobby really cheered me up. (That was one thing I disliked about being a premie - I never felt like we could just have fun...except at times when it was okayed by GMJ - like Holi. This might have stemmed more from my conditioning than anything else, but I do know that other people felt that way too.) I hope you keep posting on the board - people have told me that they miss your messages. Regards, Katie Sorry, Katie, Anon... up against the clown car. Your under arrest for having too much fun.
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Date: Thurs, Dec 11, 1997 at 11:43:43 (EST)
Poster: Sir David
Email:
To: Mind Police
Subject: Re: What has Adrian Mole got to do with
Message:
And Noddy And Big Ears walked into Mr Jones' sweet shop. "Hello Noddy, hello Big Ears!" said Mr Jones, "What a lovely day in Toy Town!" Ouch! Please don't hit me Mr mind policeman! Ouch!
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Date: Thurs, Dec 11, 1997 at 11:48:17 (EST)
Poster: Anon
Email:
To: all
Subject: Re: What has Adrian Mole got to do with
Message:
I am not against having fun, it's just that I imagine that I am not alone in being one of those who 'pop their head in' occasionally and it's just a little time-consuming wading through so many short personal messages and I am a bit worried about whoever archives this stuff! Maybe it was out of line for me to mention this as I have contributed nothing here lately. I suppose I feel I've got a lot of my chest in the past and feel it's better to leave room for others to do the same. Anyway I apologise for being a bore. It's really none of my business if people discuss the weather or hair-styles!
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Date: Thurs, Dec 11, 1997 at 12:23:07 (EST)
Poster: Katie
Email: petkat@mail.trib.net
To: Anon
Subject: Re: What has Adrian Mole got to do with
Message:
Dear Anon - Point taken. Before I began posting on here, I read through all the old forum archives and there was quite a bit of extraneous material - jokes, etc (also MUCH more flaming; at least that is something of which we've reduced the volume. For now, anyway.) So I do know what you are talking about. Perhaps we can try to walk the middle path (or mark our really silly threads so people can avoid them. Deena did this with good effect when she wanted to post distateful things about GMJ.) As for archiving, I am not sure who is archiving this and am not sure how they feel about the subject. Does anyone know? Apparently, however, Paradise has just lost the last month or two of postings (ouch) so perhaps the archivist won't have to worry about those. Regards from Katie
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Date: Thurs, Dec 11, 1997 at 12:47:46 (EST)
Poster: John K.
Email:
To: Anon
Subject: Re: What has Adrian Mole got to do with
Message:
Maybe I don't belong here, because the only stuff I find interesting is the stuff that's NOT about M. Nothing bores me more than hearing about his misstresses, marble palaces, cars, his lack of meditation experience, his love of money. I do think it's interesting how some people have very passionate feelings of hatred/anger for him, whereas I do not. but ya know, when I started meditating, Nixon was president, and I was raised by democratic parents who taught (brainwashed) me to hate Nixon and in fact all republicans. well, doing meditation totally spoiled Watergate for me, because I could no longer summon any feelings of hatred for the guy. Bummer! My mother was really disgusted with me, that's what annoyed her most about my involvement with M, I lost my normal human feelings of hatred and anger for Nixon.
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Date: Thurs, Dec 11, 1997 at 05:25:49 (EST)
Poster: David Simpkiss
Email: djulian@cix.compulink.co.uk
To: Everyone
Subject: From me to you Maharaji
Message:
Congratulations on reaching 40 Prem Pal Singh Rawat. Some people might wonder why we are so interested in you since we don't claim to follow you any more. I'll explain our interest in you: Back in the seventies you convinced a lot of young and naive people that you were God incarnate. Now this was a remarkable feat that you can be justly proud of. You taught us some basic Raj Yoga meditation techniques and told us that you were God. To all of us spaced out hippies this was a dream come true! Perhaps now you think we were fools to have believed you and taken it so much to heart. But Mr Singh Rawat, we are the fools who worshipped and adored you and gave you all our love and devotion because we genuinely believed that you were our Lord, indeed the Lord of all. We are the fools who went out onto the streets to tell the world that their Saviour had come. We are the fools who worked and worked to give you all the money we could. Because when God comes into this world, He deserves the very best! We are the fools who cried out in the night for our Lord, we are the fools who longed to lay their heads at the feet of The Almighty God in human form. We are the fools who gave up everything for you Mr Singh Rawat. Can you just imagine the heartbreak, the utter devastation so many of us felt when it finally dawned on us that we'd just been taken for fools. That we'd been had; that the wonderful story of the Lord being on the planet was just invented to keep you in clover? Mr Pem Pal Singh Rawat, I personally was totally devastated and I have heard that some poor people even committed suicide when the truth dawned on them. But I do not bear a grudge. I will give my love to God and put my trust in God and pray that He will guide me. And I pray that He will guide you also. For you to have perpetuated such a myth that you were He, must be a pretty heavy number. And to have seemingly done it for material gain, well that's a bit below the belt isn't it. I don't want any harm to come to you and I pray that you simply see the big mistake you have made. If you enjoy material wealth, that is no bother to me. I only would wish that such wealth is gained in honest business. Mr Prem Pal Singh Rawat, if it should all fall apart for you then rather than mock and critisise your ex-devotees I would advise you to please seek our help on an equal person to person basis. You will find that your ex-devotees are amongst the most generous hearted of people. That is why we failed to see the obvious myth when it was staring us in the face. There will be many of us I'm sure, who would help The Lord of The Universe climb down off his throne and become a normal human being again. But sadly, if you continue to perpetuate a myth, then nobody can help you and in fact, those who once adored you, will certainly turn against you.
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Date: Thurs, Dec 11, 1997 at 05:51:40 (EST)
Poster: Mr Ex
Email:
To: BigM and his tricks ...
Subject: Re: From me to you Maharaji
Message:
What about BigM’s tricks ? I recently found something extremely interesting that cult experts discovered. Low frequency sounds can be used to put you in some kind of hypnotic trance that it’s almost impossible to notice. In that kind of trance, which is not an unconscious state, you become very suggestible, and almost anything can be pumped into your brain. Not everybody reacts to this, but a quite high percentage of people do. Used by someone like BigM, it takes you deeper in what you think are ‘natural’ feelings you ‘experience’, and gullible to all the stupid things he says (when a part of your brain says he is just saying something stupid _ never experienced this ?). It's almost a criminal trick. It works by injecting low frequency (5 to 10 Hz) sounds in PA systems (of a hall). Even when there is no music or no speech broadcasted. You almost don’t hear it. It gets mixed with the sound of air conditioning. That could be one of the reasons they have to use (backstage) very unusual filters for the videos. These filters are asked everywhere BigM holds an event. When these filters are not available, he brings his own. Hall’s audio visual technicians are always very surprised when they know that Elan Vital uses these filters. Professional equipment already have filters for 50/60 HZ, because it’s a known and solved problem. All AV equipment already have filters for these frequencies. These lower frequencies do affect the video projections and are not blocked by the usual filters. EV technicians usually answer that the 50/60 HZ of the electrical power affects the videos. I don't believe this : everybody would have the same problem! I never really thought about it : how funny !!!! He will be furious and mad, I love this. If technicians read this, why don’t give some feedback ? I don't know how this could be investigated for good. The mixing board is usually inside the hall, but the source of the sounds is backstage, and a lot of fiddling can happen here. There are very few people there. Sound specialist would be aware of these sounds in the hall if they are present. What do you think about this ?
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Date: Thurs, Dec 11, 1997 at 06:35:55 (EST)
Poster: X
Email:
To: Mr Ex
Subject: Re: From me to you Maharaji
Message:
> What do you think about this ? They were probably digging tunnels in Australia for low frequency generators. Tony Blaire must have used magic too. The low orbit satellite system being set up by Bill Gates could be a plot to inject hypnotic rays into our precious brains. Hare Krishna people used to shave their heads to try to hypnotize their prey with the reflection. Luckily the Anti-Cult crowd has the real dope.
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Date: Thurs, Dec 11, 1997 at 06:52:37 (EST)
Poster: Brian
Email: brian@worldnetoh.com
To: Mr Ex
Subject: Re: From me to you Maharaji
Message:
I think you've just GOT to get to bed earlier, MX :) I'm certainly no MJ defender. But if I were making a living showing videos to convince prospective customers of the value of my product, I would learn very quickly that quality of the presentation could be thrown off by some idiot running a hair dryer in an adjoining room on the same circuit, and I would bring filters that I could use to trap offending noise before it could reduce the image to even more gibberish than the taping captured. Noise on the AC power signal is dependent on the arrangement of the circuits with respect to the nearest true ground, and in publicly rented halls you can hardly go into the next room and ask that the blender demonstration be suspended until you are finished showing videos to the gullible. As for the audio signal being used intentionally to lull people, I doubt it. They'd be dozing off if that were the case, and instead they're all riding the adrenalin high known by celebrity-struck adolescents everywhere. Besides, premies have shown that they don't need any help suspending their own thought process when in MJ's divine presence.
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Date: Thurs, Dec 11, 1997 at 07:04:43 (EST)
Poster: Brian
Email: brian@worldnetoh.com
To: David Simpkiss
Subject: Re: From me to you Maharaji
Message:
Watch your use of the word we, David. While I might agree with you or not on any or all statements, I doubt you speak for us. I always get itchy when people talk in the first-person plural. Besides, as far as I'm concerned, MJ's gonna have to get his support from ex-LordOfTheUniverse.com where he can find people sympathetic to the trauma suffered by by frauds in this world. He can pour his broken heart out on Usingum II.
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Date: Thurs, Dec 11, 1997 at 10:09:30 (EST)
Poster: Hunter S. Thompson
Email:
To: David Simpkiss
Subject: From me to you Maharaji (Re: From me to you Maharaji)
Message:
Congratulations on reaching 40 Prem Pal Singh Rawat, he grabbed a grapefruit and worked and worked and nervous. I will certainly turn against you all our love and I have to have seemingly done it should all kinds of young and the crash is LSD. Mr Pem Pal Singh Rawat, zombie drunk and beat me. We are the fools who went out! It's too late! Perhaps now you to focus. Would he shouted suddenly disappeared... a five dollar bill and pray that some hellhole of holes in you and mental collapse is very gross tableau. I do not bear a bit below the very gross tableau. It was staring us that you to God incarnate. Yes. But what kind of us in the planet was a five dollar bill and critisise your attorney, unable to suck a stylish screech of people even dangerous. The possibility of grapefruit and the middle. Hell yes, he shouted. Can you to leave fast, totally incapable of addict would advise you were glazed and worked him over. That is LSD. You taught us that you were our Lord of the very best! We are amongst the door swung open. Suddenly the most generous hearted of addict would advise you to rip his throne and I'll explain our love to perpetuate a bit below the bathtub, another hotel full of the Lord being on an equal person. But Mr Singh Rawat. It was hearing. I pray that you were full of cops. We are the Lord of. We're going to get a myth when? How much longer? How much longer. I will guide you to see the very real now you also. It was totally devastated and naive people even committed suicide when the face. Into the street with a grip. A very best! It's too late! We are the street with me. when the truth dawned on an equal person basis.... a stylish screech of The Universe climb down off his lungs out! he said. That's a myth, drugs, he shouted suddenly. He will guide me. I do not bear a grudge. There will find that means the belt isn't it for you continue to take the blame! He started acting funny, load up on adrenalin reserves-- lying in this? Act natural, who once adored you to buy a normal human being again. Mr Prem Pal Singh Rawat, those who once adored you to have seemingly done it! he grabbed a normal human being again. You're doomed, and become a stylish screech of a taco in half with big mistake you, that means the country. I gave him a normal human being again. I pray that He started acting funny, then suddenly. His eyes were He seemed very gross tableau. But sadly, I only would roam around Vegas wearing one black glove? There will find that means the blame! This is LSD. I ride the kidneys with a maniac would lock me. I think there's something wrong with a normal human being again. One more hour. But sadly, another hotel full of holes in fact, if it should all fall apart for material gain, I advise you enjoy material gain, load up on them. But sadly, he said. For you to suck a motorcycle. Leave the truth dawned on an angle.
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Date: Thurs, Dec 11, 1997 at 10:20:33 (EST)
Poster: Doctor Dastardly
Email: djulian@cix.compulink.co.uk
To: Mr Ex
Subject: Re: From me to you Maharaji
Message:
I had to read your post several times in order to grasp its meaning. Regarding the filters, you are saying that since a 5-10 HZ frequency is supposedly being emitted to hypnotise the audience, then the guys who are recording the videos have to use 5-10 HZ filters to block out this sound from their video sound recording? Yes?? It sounds a bit far fetched but who knows?? Perhaps I'll try it on the next young lady I lure into my evil web and see if it works on her! Dave.
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Date: Thurs, Dec 11, 1997 at 11:04:20 (EST)
Poster: Mr Ex, confused ?
Email:
To: Brian
Subject: Re: From me to you Maharaji
Message:
Sorry, I AM CONFUSED. Have you seen and HEARD that video ‘now & forever’ (I’m not sure of the title) _ darshan video, with lines of premies and BigM in India ? Speak of trance and hypnosis .... The old ‘ex’ don’t know that powerful technology ! BigM is proud of it. I edited it himself ! In his private studio. That’s a loud low frequency hypnotic sound ! With some nice repetitive music. Have you witnessed it’s effects ? Without BigM’s face on the screen ! You can use the same kind of rhythmic, in a subliminal way. Extremely powerful ! I’m not over-paranoid : it’s been used in many cult meetings according to experts (4 to 12 HZ frequencies). The same type of trance induced by some drum rhythms. The participants never noticed anything. I’m not sure of it : I just mention it’s very feasible, and I wouldn’t be surprise to learn one day that it’s been used by BigM. These 4/12 Hz in the loudspeakers wires could be very troublesome.
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Date: Thurs, Dec 11, 1997 at 12:06:25 (EST)
Poster: Monsieur Technician
Email:
To: Mr Ex
Subject: Re: From me to you Maharaji
Message:
Low frequency sounds can be used to put you in some kind of hypnotic trance that it’s almost impossible to notice. In that kind of trance, which is not an unconscious state, you become very suggestible, and almost anything can be pumped into your brain. Not everybody reacts to this, but a quite high percentage of people do. Used by someone like BigM, it takes you deeper in what you think are ‘natural’ feelings you ‘experience’, and gullible to all the stupid things he says (when a part of your brain says he is just saying something stupid _ never experienced this ?). It's almost a criminal trick. It works by injecting low frequency (5 to 10 Hz) sounds in PA systems (of a hall). Even when there is no music or no speech broadcasted. You almost don’t hear it. It gets mixed with the sound of air conditioning. That could be one of the reasons they have to use (backstage) very unusual filters for the videos. These filters are asked everywhere BigM holds an event. When these filters are not available, he brings his own. Hall’s audio visual technicians are always very surprised when they know that Elan Vital uses these filters. Professional equipment already have filters for 50/60 HZ, because it’s a known and solved problem. All AV equipment already have filters for these frequencies. These lower frequencies do affect the video projections and are not blocked by the usual filters. EV technicians usually answer that the 50/60 HZ of the electrical power affects the videos. I don't believe this : everybody would have the same problem! I never really thought about it : how funny !!!! He will be furious and mad, I love this. If technicians read this, why don’t give some feedback ? I don't know how this could be investigated for good. The mixing board is usually inside the hall, but the source of the sounds is backstage, and a lot of fiddling can happen here. There are very few people there. Sound specialist would be aware of these sounds in the hall if they are present. What do you think about this ? Well, seeing as you ask, I think that it is rubbish. I know you are excited with your new-found sceptical freedom, but I think this speculation is quite unfounded. Having worked with people myself on the sound at programs I can say that they just try to get as good (clear) a sound as possible given the acoustics of the hall. The filters (I presume you mean the graphic egualisers) are there to remove the problematic frequencies that the halls shape tend to accentuate. No more no less. I think it would serve you well to stick to telling things you know for sure are true.
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Date: Thurs, Dec 11, 1997 at 12:41:01 (EST)
Poster: Sir David
Email: djulian@cix.compulink.co.uk
To: Hunter S. Thompson
Subject: Re: From me to you Maharaji
Message:
Laughed! I nearly paid my grapefruit! Hey man, what are you on? Can I have some?!
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Date: Thurs, Dec 11, 1997 at 23:52:53 (EST)
Poster: Katie - off topic (sort of)
Email:
To: Brian
Subject: Re: From me to you Maharaji
Message:
Brian - I think Sir David was using the ROYAL "we". Old habits die hard, you know. Sir David appears to be learning. P.S. The thing that makes me itchy is when someone talks about him/herself in the THIRD person singular. Like Bob Dole or Guru Maharaji.
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Date: Wed, Dec 10, 1997 at 23:35:48 (EST)
Poster: Krishna
Email: bb
To: and a bug too!
Subject: throws his shield
Message:
Part me and part hijacked lines from here and there. The spinning ride turns into the dawn. And I am awash in it's color. Morning air through the window, I can taste of it. The Oceans' stream's feed all the garden,-life. every morning a breeze I surrender to that. The wind is my friend, and my work. Whatever is poured, must still be drunk. It may be pure soul, or DNA food, or some combination, but say YES! As we all did, in unison, upon getting a brand new face Peace comes when we are friends together, remembering. Your honest desire, and benevolence, free the soul, to emerge as what it is. The nightmared sleep begins at dawn, People with nothing that they want. If someone doesn't want the pleasure, of this open hearted garden, Life itself must be against his rules. The life of the garden, providing impulses, to be followed, or overruled. Like you said, red light, danger ahead. My disrepute and my willfullness, and I won't conceal either, the joy that led me out toward laughter. We are beggers here, but don't ask what we are begging for! Whatever it is shows in our faces. The joyous boy at five, Freely manifesting god in human form. At one point in a persons life they forget, and they never remember again. The grief and missing that batters me, because the presence of peace is gone, when it cannot leave without me. The child, that is so wise, is running straight at you, for a kiss.
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Date: Thurs, Dec 11, 1997 at 00:31:27 (EST)
Poster: Birthday Boy
Email: bb
To: spontanious poem
Subject: Fun in the Sun (Re: throws his shield)
Message:
No one listens, no one cares, We are ok with halfway there. Busy in the day to day, I have my religion, or so we say. We will not link, we will not stay, well hell, it's always been that way. In the line of superstars, pointing, saying, it's not far, I will stand and kneel and sit, making what I can of it, I will know more when I leave, now I walk and stumble and weave. I might know more than I believe, but I'll not accept, I'll not cleave, All do cling to the religion thier in, Someone starts a new one? It's no sin, A little bit of truth? poof, it's not there. Actions and beliefs left standing there. It's impossible! to ride that ride. Have faith, believe! Be lost to the life. To live, to walk, while holding the hand, power say's; careful, you don't own me, I'll share love and help you, but don't mess with me. I see you, I know you, we're having some fun, you'll get burned if you steer me, for I'm like the sun, You know what I'm saying, I've shown you, my son, We are together, but you can't be one. It's a good design, you live one long day, just make your requests, I hear what you say, the two of us together, let's start to play.
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Date: Thurs, Dec 11, 1997 at 01:34:27 (EST)
Poster: He came to the forum
Email: BB
To: Those that missed it
Subject: He said what he did (Re: throws his shield)
Message:
Deena and I up, at quarter to three, A number 1 show's up, it's maharaji. I read what he said, and it's clear to me, he's been reading, he listened, and he said so to me. His poem referred to some things that I said, call me a dreamer, I entered his head. I fight no longer, I feel no hate, His actions, his missions I leave it to fate. For all of the challenges, that wait in my day, I ride in the life, and there I will stay. He did me a favor and that I do say, but god! the rest of the word's, that he chose to say! Eat my body and drink my blood. Granted, it wasn't him that came out with THAT dud, But off kilter, off base, talking cloud's in my way, distracting from the real friend, who lives in my day.
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Date: Thurs, Dec 11, 1997 at 01:44:30 (EST)
Poster: Katie
Email: petkat@mail.trib.net
To: Bill
Subject: Re: He said what he did (Re: throws his shield)
Message:
Pardon me Bill, if I seem prosaic, but I think it was CD, or someone like him, who was number 1. Not the birthday boy. Do you really think he's the son of god or something?
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Date: Thurs, Dec 11, 1997 at 06:33:50 (EST)
Poster: Snowy Morning
Email: bb
To: Kathryn
Subject: what a show (Re: throws his shield)
Message:
When I said I entered his head I meant that I saw the viewpoint of the person I was reading. We do that all the time with everybody, just understanding what they were saying is another way of saying it. Mr. ex thinks it was him as well. It was just a poetry night. I made up the last two on the spot. I hardly ever write poems, if they qualify for that name. If I said son of god somewhere in there, I am sure I meant something else.
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Date: Thurs, Dec 11, 1997 at 10:00:11 (EST)
Poster: Katie
Email: petkat@mail.trib.net
To: Bill
Subject: Re: what a show (Re: throws his shield)
Message:
When I said I entered his head I meant that I saw the viewpoint of the person I was reading. We do that all the time with everybody, just understanding what they were saying is another way of saying it. Mr. ex thinks it was him as well. It was just a poetry night. I made up the last two on the spot. I hardly ever write poems, if they qualify for that name. If I said son of god somewhere in there, I am sure I meant something else. Bill - I liked your poems very much, especially the first one. I know that Mr. Ex thought 1 was GMJ too, however I thought I recognized Chris's distinctive style (but maybe GMJ writes just like Chris, who knows?) By the way, I think CD is still posting on here. He has a lot of new pseudonyms though...hi Chris.
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Date: Fri, Dec 12, 1997 at 07:46:53 (EST)
Poster: more
Email: bb
To: Katie
Subject: snow (Re: throws his shield)
Message:
so much for el nino bringing the northeast a mild winter, it's snowing again Someone sent me transcripts for the L.A. event. Guess I'll post them. If it was chris, the events do him good. He has never articulated as well as that night. If it wasn't m I think it was someone else, not chris.
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Date: Fri, Dec 12, 1997 at 08:53:11 (EST)
Poster: Katie
Email: petkat@mail.trib.net
To: more
Subject: Re: snow (Re: throws his shield)
Message:
so much for el nino bringing the northeast a mild winter, it's snowing again Someone sent me transcripts for the L.A. event. Guess I'll post them. If it was chris, the events do him good. He has never articulated as well as that night. If it wasn't m I think it was someone else, not chris. I am confused now, bill - please clarifu. Are you talking about the person who posted on the forum on Jan. 8 and 9, or are you talking about the L.A. event? I'm not disputing that Maharaji spoke at the L.A. (Long Beach) event, but I don't think he was posting on the forum. (By the way, I am 95% sure that one person who has been posting on here (can't remember the pseudonym that was used) is Chris, because he talked about Napoleon Hill. Also, there's another verse of the CD Te Ching floating around here somewhere.) P.S. Snow here all week too.
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Date: Fri, Dec 12, 1997 at 16:45:22 (EST)
Poster: el nino
Email: bb
To: Katie
Subject: snow (Re: throws his shield)
Message:
The transcripts are from the recent LA program, and mr. ex and I think maharaji posted 5 times using the name--- 1 ----- Not long after, mid-day or so, the forum went out, I happened to be watching and posted just before it went out. I saw it go. Personally, I figured he did it although that was just an assumption I made at the time. He is very computer handy and surely knows bug tricks. I figured he was erasing his posts. If it's all wrong, oh well, it's today now. Time for the moon maid.
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Date: Fri, Dec 12, 1997 at 18:51:05 (EST)
Poster: bburke
Email: petkat@mail.trib.net
To: el nino
Subject: Re: snow (Re: throws his shield)
Message:
The transcripts are from the recent LA program, and mr. ex and I think maharaji posted 5 times using the name--- 1 ----- Not long after, mid-day or so, the forum went out, I happened to be watching and posted just before it went out. I saw it go. Personally, I figured he did it although that was just an assumption I made at the time. He is very computer handy and surely knows bug tricks. I figured he was erasing his posts. If it's all wrong, oh well, it's today now. Time for the moon maid. If it was Maharaji - it was good that you released some of the anger (good for YOU, I mean). If it was Chris (or someone), maybe CD is the Lord of the Universe. I mean, who can say? Perhaps we've been entertaining gods unaware. I vote for CD if we have to choose. P.S. I have the transcript, if you want it.
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Date: Fri, Dec 12, 1997 at 18:53:30 (EST)
Poster: Katie
Email: petkat@mail.tribnet
To: bburke
Subject: Re: snow (Re: throws his shield)
Message:
Sorry, bill, I assumed your name inadvertently (spt?). Hope this isn't off topic!
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Date: Wed, Dec 10, 1997 at 21:17:07 (EST)
Poster: Katie
Email: petkat@mail.trib.net
To: Everyone
Subject: Which page are we on here?
Message:
Do you think it would be possible to come to a consensus about which Forum (II or III) to use for the time being? Personally I prefer this one (II) because the other one hurts my eyes after I looks through a microscope all day. But David says he can fix that. At any rate, there are conversations going on at both sites, and it would be my preference to have everyone gathered at one site. (If you can't find Forum III, David has a link to it on the ex-premie site.)
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Date: Wed, Dec 10, 1997 at 21:21:12 (EST)
Poster: David Simpkiss
Email: djulian@cix.compulink.co.uk
To: Katie
Subject: Re: Which page are we on here?
Message:
My vote goes to this Forum 2. I much prefer it for numerous reasons.
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Date: Wed, Dec 10, 1997 at 21:22:22 (EST)
Poster: David Simpkiss
Email: djulian@cix.compulink.co.uk
To: Katie
Subject: Re: Which page are we on here?
Message:
My vote goes to this Forum 2. I much prefer it for numerous reasons. Yes I'm still up Katie and it's now 2:24 am Thursday morning!
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Date: Wed, Dec 10, 1997 at 21:23:59 (EST)
Poster: Katie
Email:
To: Sir David
Subject: Re: Which page are we on here?
Message:
My vote goes to this Forum 2. I much prefer it for numerous reasons. Would you mind posting that on Forum III? I just put the same message on there. David Stirling can change it so we like it better, don't forget (he's a great page designer).
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Date: Wed, Dec 10, 1997 at 21:27:42 (EST)
Poster: Katie
Email:
To: Sir David
Subject: Re: Which page are we on here?
Message:
My vote goes to this Forum 2. I much prefer it for numerous reasons. Yes I'm still up Katie and it's now 2:24 am Thursday morning! Yes, David, I have noticed that you stay up quite late. I am a night owl too (so is my husband) but have been forced to go to bed by midnight lately because of my job. Must be getting old (like GMJ - ha ha.) David, you have made a couple of postings using the name Noddy. The only place I have heard of Noddy is in the Adrian Mole Diaries (which is where I get most of my knowledge of British popular culture; the rest comes from reading Margaret Drabble, Penelope Lively, A.S. Byatt, and so forth). Do people in Britain read about Adrian Mole, too?
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Date: Wed, Dec 10, 1997 at 21:29:11 (EST)
Poster: Mr. Organization
Email:
To: David Simpkiss
Subject: Re: Which page are we on here?
Message:
Actually, I like forum III ....(dodging flying objects)... but in the interests of our across the pond friends, let's keep to forum II so as many as possible can play.
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Date: Wed, Dec 10, 1997 at 21:31:47 (EST)
Poster: Blarney Fife
Email:
To: Katie
Subject: Re: Which page are we on here?
Message:
Who's adrian mole? The only British culture I know is what comes over on Eastenders. Anybody know what that is?
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Date: Wed, Dec 10, 1997 at 21:33:01 (EST)
Poster: Katie
Email: petkat@mail.trib.net
To: Bobby the Great
Subject: Re: Which page are we on here?
Message:
Actually, I like forum III ....(dodging flying objects)... but in the interests of our across the pond friends, let's keep to forum II so as many as possible can play. Well, our OTHER friend across the pond (Webmaster David) likes Forum III. He had a lot of trouble reading messages on this forum. How about you, Sir David?
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Date: Wed, Dec 10, 1997 at 21:35:23 (EST)
Poster: Katie
Email:
To: Blarney Fife
Subject: Re: Which page are we on here?
Message:
Who's adrian mole? The only British culture I know is what comes over on Eastenders. Anybody know what that is? The Adrian Mole diaries are three very funny books written by Sue Townsend, which purport to be the diary of a teenage boy in Britain. I recommend them highly. Never heard of eastenders - if it's on TV, I probably haven't seen it because we live out in the "heartland" and only get three and a half TV channels.
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Date: Wed, Dec 10, 1997 at 21:39:27 (EST)
Poster: Bobby
Email:
To: Katie
Subject: Re: Which page are we on here?
Message:
Hey Katie, I've got a great book for you to read.... A Mythic Life by Jean Houston. Know her?
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Date: Wed, Dec 10, 1997 at 21:43:59 (EST)
Poster: Katie
Email: petkat@mail.trib.net
To: Bobby the Virtuous
Subject: Re: Which page are we on here?
Message:
Hey Katie, I've got a great book for you to read.... A Mythic Life by Jean Houston. Know her? Yes, I have heard of her. Is it on your site? Let me take this opportunity to put in a shameless plug for Bobby's Bookstore (I swear that he's not giving me a discount or anything for this!). He is an Amazon.com associate, and you can buy books from his site for exactly what they would cost from Amazon, except Bobby makes a little bit on the transaction. I don't have the URL handy, but it's on the Sacred Transformations site.
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Date: Wed, Dec 10, 1997 at 21:45:34 (EST)
Poster: Mike
Email: JustKidding.com
To: Katie
Subject: Re: Which page are we on here?
Message:
Do you think it would be possible to come to a consensus about which Forum (II or III) to use for the time being? Personally I prefer this one (II) because the other one hurts my eyes after I looks through a microscope all day. But David says he can fix that. At any rate, there are conversations going on at both sites, and it would be my preference to have everyone gathered at one site. (If you can't find Forum III, David has a link to it on the ex-premie site.) "after I looks through a microscope all day????" Suppose to used a monitor to read the forums missy ;)
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Date: Wed, Dec 10, 1997 at 21:52:23 (EST)
Poster: Katie
Email: petkat@mail.trib.net
To: Mike
Subject: Re: Which page are we on here?
Message:
'after I looks through a microscope all day????' Suppose to used a monitor to read the forums missy ;)
Yeah, bad grammar, I know. But the joke was, too. (not a cut! Well, not a REAL cut...) By the way, Mike, re Voodooman. I guess that you are talking about Voodoo Economics, am I right? But since we are talking about books here - have you ever read any of William Gibson's books? Specifically, "Count Zero", where the voodoo gods are inhabiting cyberspace? Just curious. I really like cyperpunk, but wonder if people who really know about hardware/software do as well. P.S. You don't even want to know what I was looking at under a microscope all day.
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Date: Wed, Dec 10, 1997 at 22:05:02 (EST)
Poster: tomorrow never nose
Email:
To: Katie
Subject: where are we now? (Re: Which page are we on here?)
Message:
Where are we now?
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Date: Wed, Dec 10, 1997 at 22:53:28 (EST)
Poster: Me
Email:
To: tomorrow never nose
Subject: Re: where are we now? (Re: Which page are we on here?)
Message:
Not sure, but too retro for me man. I'm outta here.
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Date: Wed, Dec 10, 1997 at 23:11:05 (EST)
Poster: Sir David
Email: djulian@cix.compulink.co.uk
To: Katie
Subject: Re: Which page are we on here?
Message:
Now I'm sure David Stirling wrote somewhere that Forum 3 has the same siezing up problem for him so 2 is just as good. If he's using Demon ISP then that's his problem because when I connect via Demon it seizes up too. I prefer Forum 2 because it's easy to use on my pure text Lynx web browser while 3 is full of wierd stuff as well. Katie, if you've never read the stories of Noddy and Big Ears in Toytown then you don't know what you've missed. They're children's books by a different author than the one you mentioned. By the way, Maharaji once boasted to some English premies that he was going to make the Ramayana look like Noddy (the childrens' book). I have a long post to post now so I'll post it on F2, OK?? And then I'll go to bed Katie. Promise.
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Date: Wed, Dec 10, 1997 at 23:19:18 (EST)
Poster: Sir David
Email: djulian@cix.compulink.co.uk
To: Blarney Fife
Subject: Re: Which page are we on here?
Message:
The Secret Diary of Adrian Mole is a book and TV programme about are rather funny and confused adolecent teenage boy. I had heard it was true that Americans think we're all like on Eastenders. No, even the real Eastend is nothing like Eastenders.
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Date: Wed, Dec 10, 1997 at 23:34:36 (EST)
Poster: Katie
Email:
To: Sir David
Subject: Re: Which page are we on here?
Message:
Now I'm sure David Stirling wrote somewhere that Forum 3 has the same siezing up problem for him so 2 is just as good. If he's using Demon ISP then that's his problem because when I connect via Demon it seizes up too. I prefer Forum 2 because it's easy to use on my pure text Lynx web browser while 3 is full of wierd stuff as well. Katie, if you've never read the stories of Noddy and Big Ears in Toytown then you don't know what you've missed. They're children's books by a different author than the one you mentioned. By the way, Maharaji once boasted to some English premies that he was going to make the Ramayana look like Noddy (the childrens' book). I have a long post to post now so I'll post it on F2, OK?? And then I'll go to bed Katie. Promise. Yes, Sir David, David the Webmaster did write about Forum 3 having the same seizing up problem with him, but he still says he prefers Forum 3 (if I interpret him correctly). Maybe because he has the password to 3 and not to 2? Correct me if I'm wrong, Webmaster D. Adrian Mole had Noddy wallpaper that he painted black when he decided he was too old for it. The bells on Noddy's hat kept showing through and he had to color them all in individually with a black marker (biro?). Those Adrian Mole books are great - they make me laugh out loud - not an ordinary occurence. (It does happen sometimes on this forum though...). Take care and sleep well, David.
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Date: Thurs, Dec 11, 1997 at 11:05:15 (EST)
Poster: Mike
Email: bigguy32@juno.com
To: Katie
Subject: Re: Which page are we on here?
Message:
'after I looks through a microscope all day????' Suppose to used a monitor to read the forums missy ;) Yeah, bad grammar, I know. But the joke was, too. (not a cut! Well, not a REAL cut...) By the way, Mike, re Voodooman. I guess that you are talking about Voodoo Economics, am I right? But since we are talking about books here - have you ever read any of William Gibson's books? Specifically, 'Count Zero', where the voodoo gods are inhabiting cyberspace? Just curious. I really like cyperpunk, but wonder if people who really know about hardware/software do as well. P.S. You don't even want to know what I was looking at under a microscope all day. Actually no, I haven't read that but it makes since. Sometimes the web acts like Ellegua is playing his games on it. My voodooware, voodoman emails are for a Stock Calculator product that I put together for brokers on Wall Street.
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Date: Fri, Dec 12, 1997 at 08:46:26 (EST)
Poster: Katie
Email:
To: all
Subject: Another online bookstore (slightly off topic) (Re: Which page are we on here?)
Message:
Let me take this opportunity to put in a shameless plug for Bobby's Bookstore (I swear that he's not giving me a discount or anything for this!). He is an Amazon.com associate, and you can buy books from his site for exactly what they would cost from Amazon, except Bobby makes a little bit on the transaction. I don't have the URL handy, but it's on the Sacred Transformations site. Chris just got on my case for not saying that he, as well as Bobby, is also an Amazon.com associate, and has a list of books on his web site (www.cdickey.com), which people may be interested in buying and reading. (Both technical and non-technical books, reviewed by Chris, if anyone is interested).
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Date: Wed, Dec 10, 1997 at 20:09:50 (EST)
Poster: Johnny Cavad
Email:
To: Everyone
Subject: There's No Such Thing as Santa
Message:
Hey, remember when you found out there was no such thing as Santa Claus. I do. At the age of seven, I didn't want to believe it at first. I cursed everyone that tried to convince me of this startling truth. I even spit in their faces. Finally after much painful denial, my older brother yelled, "Grow up. Just grow up already! There's no such thing as Santa Claus!!!" As I read all these comments that so many devout premies waste their time wrting, one thought runs through my mind: "Grow up already! There's no Santa Clause!"
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Date: Wed, Dec 10, 1997 at 21:26:19 (EST)
Poster: S
Email:
To: Johnny Cavad
Subject: Re: There's No Such Thing as Santa
Message:
> As I read all these comments that so many devout premies waste their time wrting, one thought runs through my mind: 'Grow up already! Glad you have everything figured out. Go back to your lovely job buddy.
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Date: Wed, Dec 10, 1997 at 21:42:46 (EST)
Poster: Mike
Email: Mashedlittleboy.com
To: Johnny Cavad
Subject: Re: There's No Such Thing as Santa
Message:
Hey, remember when you found out there was no such thing as Santa Claus. I do. At the age of seven, I didn't want to believe it at first. I cursed everyone that tried to convince me of this startling truth. I even spit in their faces. Finally after much painful denial, my older brother yelled, 'Grow up. Just grow up already! There's no such thing as Santa Claus!!!' As I read all these comments that so many devout premies waste their time wrting, one thought runs through my mind: 'Grow up already! There's no Santa Clause!' WHAT!!! And I got all these special cookies and drinks for that fat bastard and you NOW tell me there isn't a SANTA... DAAAAAMMMMMMM... SSSSHHOOOOOOTTTTT!!!! SSSSHHHHUUUUUCCCCKKKKSSS and a golly!
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Date: Wed, Dec 10, 1997 at 21:56:27 (EST)
Poster: joking smoker
Email:
To: S
Subject: Re: There's No Such Thing as Santa
Message:
Glad you have everything figured out. Go back to your lovely job buddy.
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Date: Thurs, Dec 11, 1997 at 01:41:41 (EST)
Poster: S
Email:
To: joking smoker
Subject: Re: There's No Such Thing as Santa
Message:
Glad you have everything figured out. Go back to your lovely job buddy. Yes Johnny, you are all grown up now! Oh, I see now. Santa has no place in the mature world.
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Date: Thurs, Dec 11, 1997 at 11:39:57 (EST)
Poster: Warning:
Email: not op
To: joking smoker
Subject: Above post can bomb your computer (Re: There's No Such Thing as Santa)
Message:
Warning: OP says that trying to access the above post has thrown her off her server, and has even caused her computer to shut down.
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Date: Thurs, Dec 11, 1997 at 11:42:33 (EST)
Poster: Correction:
Email:
To: everyone
Subject: "joking smoker" Is the bomb (Re: There's No Such Thing as Santa)
Message:
Warning: OP says that trying to access the joking smoker post has thrown her off her server, and has even caused her computer to shut down. (correction of previous message, which didn't end up directly below the right posting.)
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Date: Thurs, Dec 11, 1997 at 12:05:32 (EST)
Poster: joking smoker
Email:
To: Warning: NOT!
Subject: Don't you think the joker larfs at you!?! (Re: There's No Such Thing as Santa)
Message:
The Joking Smoker post is NOT a bomb, virus, threat or anything like it. The joking smoker post contains an animated gif. Perhaps OP's computer setup is a bit dated and the graphics threw her off. Again, there is no intended threat of any kind with the Joking Smoker post. It's there for a bit of a larf.
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Date: Thurs, Dec 11, 1997 at 12:22:02 (EST)
Poster: Your friend
Email:
To: Warning:
Subject: Trust the joker (Re: There's No Such Thing as Santa)
Message:
Don't fear the joking smoker. He is not your enemy. Though he is a trickster, he is your friend and would not harm you.
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Date: Thurs, Dec 11, 1997 at 12:32:00 (EST)
Poster: Joanne
Email:
To: Everyone
Subject: Re: There's No Such Thing as Santa
Message:
I don't think any of you get the gist of what Johnny is saying. Think about it.
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Date: Thurs, Dec 11, 1997 at 23:38:50 (EST)
Poster: S
Email:
To: Joanne
Subject: Re: There's No Such Thing as Santa
Message:
I don't think any of you get the gist of what Johnny is saying. Think about it. I think you have a crush on Johnny.
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Date: Fri, Dec 12, 1997 at 07:22:11 (EST)
Poster: Brian
Email: brian@worldnetoh.com
To: Joanne
Subject: Re: There's No Such Thing as Santa
Message:
I don't think any of you get the gist of what Johnny is saying. Think about it. The apparent lack of response to the analogy is because it's been used in the past in this forum (actually Forum I) and its significance has already soaked in to most of the people who post regularly here. It is a good one, though, and I've used it myself in posts here. You also have to remember that comparing Santa to MJ (in ways other than girth) is patently unfair to Saint Nick. This being December, only the most daring of ex-premies would actually risk putting anything negative about the Jolly Old Soul in writing. I share their cowardice. [P.S. I've been pretty good this year, Santa]
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Date: Wed, Dec 10, 1997 at 05:47:37 (EST)
Poster: Mr Ex
Email:
To: Everyone
Subject: Let's have some fun
Message:
Lets have some fun and rewrite some stories. I thought about that one that BigM told so many times : The story of Ram (a part of it). One day his wife disappeared whilst he was hunting in the forest. He sent his brother Laksman to find her. He finally found her in Ravanna’s palace. They started a big war against these ‘devils’. Ravanna died. He got his wife back, but didn’t want to touch her, saying that she had been Ravanna’s wife. She said no, but he never trusted her. Finally she killed herself. Could be something like : Ram was married to Sita. He was playing his guru game with all his gopies. Finally she got tired of his, and she fled whilst he was after a new one in the forest (sounds romantic). She found Ravanna who was a wealthy educated king, and decided to live with him. BigM (ooooops ... sorry), Ram got mad and decided to fight Ravanna with his mysterious divine powers. It didn’t work. He then sent Laksman to see what was going on. He reported that Ravanna was very powerful and that he resisted with all his ego. Ravanna finally died because he was very old. Sita was lost, and had no other option but going back to Ram, thinking that he would be happy to have her back (that’s what she thought because she saw Laksman at Ravanna’s court). Of course Ram was furious and didn’t want to speak to her. That’s why she killed herself. Sounds familiar ? It also reminds me of something BigM asks to aspirants and premies : to have a heart free of cheat and deceit, have the heart of a child. He insists a lot on this in the aspirant’s (and in premies) videos. I never questioned that. It’s so beautiful, it sounds such a beautiful relationship. But why ask for that ? Is it really possible ? I’m no psychologist. But I guess it takes you into the guilt feelings. What it really means is : never question what the master says or does. BigM told that story of the ‘master’ using a bucket full of holes to take water out of the well. Really interesting story ! If the master is not full of cheat and deceit, there is no harm questioning anything he does. He will give good answers : there are plenty of examples of this in history. That will give you a deep insight of what he thinks and what he does, how wise he is, how loving he really is, like in any regular relationship. Of course BigM cannot justify most of what he does. And what’s asked for is : total surrender to BigM. It’s still what’s being asked. Because he is full of cheat and deceit. He does not know much of what he is teaching. He hasn’t learn anything of what he pretends to teach. He is after money. He only enjoys to be worshipped by his followers. His followers don’t usually follow him for very long. His business is not doing that well : he is full of debts. He feels depressed because of this, and he spends his life in luxury, drinking Cognac and traveling with his mistress. Regular lifestyle for a depressed manager.
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Date: Wed, Dec 10, 1997 at 13:46:49 (EST)
Poster: John K.
Email:
To: Mr Ex
Subject: Re: Let's have some fun
Message:
Sooo...this is your idea of fun? Hmmm...sounds like you've been in a cult too long.
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Date: Wed, Dec 10, 1997 at 14:04:50 (EST)
Poster: Mike
Email: bigguy32@juno.com
To: Mr Ex
Subject: Re: Let's have some fun
Message:
Wouldn't you do the same thing in his place. Let's ponder this for a bit. If you had thousands of drooling fans wanting to see you and kiss your feet if you'd let them and buying everything they could get their hands on about you. If you had them sending "support" money in the millions to you as a result of your videos and programs. If you had people just giving you very expensive gifts. If you really didn't have to answer to anyone except those who you'd really pissed off... wouldn't you just kick back and relax into that lifestyle with a drink in one hand and the latest babe in the other if you where only human??? If the wife or kids become a pain..., you just ex-communicate them in a made-up mystical ritual like Darwin Gross did in Eckankar with Paul Twitchells Window - Gail. Ol L. Ron Hubbard said that if you really wanted to get rich quick... I mean, mind numbing rich... just start your own religon. Those who oppose you will give you free press by slamming you which will draw more curiosity seekers. Those who support your belief will protect you to an absurd point (including going to jail for you). And those who are in the govenment won't do anything to you as long as you file your taxes on time and no dead bodies mysteriously show-up on your lawn(which Bhagwan Shree Rag-man didn't file his taxes and look what happened to him. He had to set up and run his operation from Europe). Again, I'm not saying all this to let the guy off the hook. But, as Radar O'Rielly on MASH used to say: "It's harder than ever to train a boss!" I think too many of us (myself included) are taught to automatically respect religious leaders instead of really investigating them before they ruin our lives. I'm sure all of you scan the net a see some of the anti-cult pages that are there and they all sound about the same (i.e., people trusting some clown or clowns to give them the answer and being taken for a ride as a result). I've been collecting psychological modification techniques for about 20 years now and it's interesting how they are used to sway people into giving some "Saint" their money. We all want heros so bad that we'll settle for bums that will step up to the plate. We need to be our own hero, best friend, lover... first, before we troop out and crown someone else with the job.
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Date: Wed, Dec 10, 1997 at 04:42:28 (EST)
Poster: Mr Ex
Email:
To: Everyone
Subject: Message from Switzerland
Message:
>As old ex-premie (71-74), I was really surprised and interested (curious!) by >discovering your site. > >Ashram life was very difficult and sometimes painful in our Country as well, >and I fully understand the sufferings that some >of your articles mention..... > >Nevertheless, I would advise: > >Do not waste even one single thought, or worse, one single word, to fight what >you consider as bad within and out of you, >because each thought or word will strengthen it. >You cannot do many things at the same time; so, decide to go inside and try to >enjoy your incredible, fantastic and >ephemeral condition of human being! Doing that, you wont have time for >developing negativity, judgment or anykind of >sterile emotion. >Some people told that we cannot be more efficacious for the whole mankind, as >when we are intensively enjoying >our real Identity and laughing with our real and best friends, deep inside of >us. > > Wonderful, not? > >God bless you all, my brothers and sisters > >Blaise PAREL >Paix 67 >2300 LA CHX DE FDS >SWITZERLAND > >E-mail: lactell@iprolink.ch ------------------------------------ It sounds to me like Blaise has swopped guru toe-kissing for some other ivory tower spiritual belief so I'm not at all sure where he/she is coming from. One plastic guru was more than enough for me and I find it difficult to forgive Maharaji for preying so effectively on people who are searching for some kind of peace and meaning in their lives. If he's such a force for love and goodness as his apologists make out, then how come he generates such fear and negativity? I can't see why he finds it so difficult to answer just a few questions from people who have literally given him everything they had. But all he does is batten down the hatches and get his henchmen to phone around telling premies not to look at the Internet in case they get confused. The cult double-think is to argue that doubt is a BAD THING and that peace will only come through faith. In other words, you cannot experience peace unless you decide not to question. But that wasn't the goods we were sold when BigM first started setting out his stall in the west back in the 70s. 'Experience first and then decide' we were told. Well we experienced and we decided. And now Maharaji doesn't like us passing on those experiences. Well tough, BigM. You have your Gulfstream jet and marble Malibu mansion. It's now time to come out from your hiding place and react to the criticism coming from people who once gave you so much. You owe it to us all. And we ain't going to go away. -- David
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Date: Wed, Dec 10, 1997 at 04:43:47 (EST)
Poster: Mr Ex
Email:
To: Mr Ex
Subject: Re: Message from Switzerland
Message:
I find this very interesting ! My first reaction was exactly like yours. Then I thought more about it, and I linked it to what I’ve experienced, and to what so many involved premies I know very well experience. Mind you, most of the really involved premies are part of various therapies, cults (like Mahikari_many are into it), or non cult like new-age groups (plenty of them_often very minor), or simply ‘unofficial’ therapies (you know plenty of them). Marolyn is the 1st one into it, and has been for a very long time. Why ? Because these people suffer deeply. I had an other kind of attitude (quite a few others had and still have that attitude), maybe worse : I knew all these people were into all these therapies, and I was attracted by that idea of getting help to solve my ‘problems’. But I was kind of a fanatic guy and I thought (good instructor’s reaction) : they are ‘in their mind’. Practicing is the solution, darshan is the solution, and all the BS. This is still the ‘official’ answer given by BigM and his drones, in ‘satsang’ or during ‘service’ meetings. I heard plenty of these BS answers, as well as you did. Of course these people have a problem, and a big one (due to the very deceitful guru they believe in, and their involvement the dangerous group of his fanatic followers). There are 2 options : 1/ You really accept to face it, and you are honest with yourself. Maybe you seek help from a professional unbiased specialist (therapist). And you are ready to accept whatever comes out. Sane attitude. The best one from my point of view. A good therapist will never judge you or say anything against what you are doing. The process will help you to think straight again in the best option, and to behave in harmony with yourself. 2/ You don’t really want to face it, even though you don’t formulate it this way of course. You seek alternatives, more or less compatible with BigM’s theories (and to the group’s behavior) : alternative therapies .... It does not cut the bondage with your dear Maharaji, he is part of the whole ‘new age’ philosophy, and you live in this fantasy world. It’s not a too bad solution. You can live like that. You don’t walk on earth anymore. It’s an other culture (if you can call this a culture) : I would rather say a ‘non-culture’. It doesn’t take you anywhere. So many people (including the majority of ‘premies’) live like that : it is a sad story. Until one day you have the courage to question this whole BS : BigM and the new-age philosophies. Difficult situation. But 90% of the people who came to BigM did, and are out of it. 14,000 people received knowledge in 96. 17,000 in 97 : where are they ? Less people attended events in 97 than ever ! How many of these 90% are still in these ‘new age’ groups/philosophies ? Good question. By the way : BigM has a very funny way of counting people attending events : he would say that 200,000 attended events in 97 because EV sold that many entrance tickets in 97 ! I The reality might be quite close to 50,000 India included. (When he says he had 2 events with 50,000 people in India, it doesn’t take into account the fact that most of them attended both of them, including 1,000 westerners). Always found it funny, never realizing what it meant : the reality is depressing ! As he likes figures and playing with his computers, he shows figures ’his’ way ! ! ! ! ! ! The reality is completely different. BigM knows it. But as information is carefully monitored, it is difficult to bring all the real figures together, i.e. the numbers of people (persons) participating in every country. He probably plays with simulation softwares to figure out what to do to increase his income. That’s a good one ! Very likely close to reality ! He decided for 98 to do what his simulation software said. There is one important factor that he misses : Premies suffer from what they get ! And I’m having fun thinking of what he feels reading this.
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Date: Thurs, Dec 11, 1997 at 02:34:08 (EST)
Poster: Now Exsure
Email:
To: Mr Ex
Subject: Re: Message from Switzerland
Message:
> Premies suffer from what they get ! > And I’m having fun thinking of what he feels reading this. Hey, whatever keeps you happy. He probably thinks you are a jerk. You had and have a nice opportunity. Read 'Think and Grow Rich' again. You have a chance to revive a fresh perspective in the 'new age' of your life. Yeh, a whole lot of sufferin goin on Ooh ooh ooh Now here we go Turn it up Now stop that stuff Out the window And into the sea Of tranquility
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Date: Tues, Dec 9, 1997 at 18:52:13 (EST)
Poster: Bobby
Email:
To: Everyone
Subject: New start?
Message:
Couldn't get into the forum all day. Just tried and here we are with no messages. Hopefully, the old messages are archived and we are off to a fresh start.
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Date: Tues, Dec 9, 1997 at 19:09:13 (EST)
Poster: Katie
Email: petkat@mail.trib.net
To: Bobby
Subject: Re: New start?
Message:
Couldn't get into the forum all day. Just tried and here we are with no messages. Hopefully, the old messages are archived and we are off to a fresh start. Hi Bobby - we've all been having the same problem, and our webmaster David doesn't know what's going on. I hope the old messages were archived, too! Did you save any of them by chance?
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Date: Tues, Dec 9, 1997 at 19:21:54 (EST)
Poster: Bobby
Email:
To: Katie
Subject: Re: New start?
Message:
Jeez! David doesn't know what is going on? I thought he was doing the archiving. Hope everything is OK. I really want to be able to refer to some of the posts. I wanted to respond to a lot of what was said. I didn't archive anything on this forum.
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Date: Tues, Dec 9, 1997 at 19:30:09 (EST)
Poster: Katie
Email:
To: Bobby
Subject: Re: New start?
Message:
Jeez! David doesn't know what is going on? I thought he was doing the archiving. Hope everything is OK. I really want to be able to refer to some of the posts. I wanted to respond to a lot of what was said. I didn't archive anything on this forum. According to David, Scott has the key (password) to do things with this forum. By the way, this forum is still going on and off line - I couldn't access it last time I tried (Some people are posting on the trial Forum III.)
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Date: Tues, Dec 9, 1997 at 19:36:58 (EST)
Poster: Bobby
Email:
To: Katie
Subject: Re: New start?
Message:
Katie, how do you get to trial forum three?
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Date: Tues, Dec 9, 1997 at 20:22:00 (EST)
Poster: Katie
Email:
To: Bobby
Subject: Re: New start?
Message:
Katie, how do you get to trial forum three? Hi Bobby - Here's the link: http://www.paradise-web.com/plus/plus.mirage?who=george It's also on the "what's new" section of the web page.
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Date: Wed, Dec 10, 1997 at 03:21:44 (EST)
Poster: Mr Ex
Email:
To: Katie
Subject: Re: New start?
Message:
I have almost all files in my computer they are pwrforum(x).htm like I can make a zipped file out of them anybody wants them ? Is it possible to restore them?
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Date: Wed, Dec 10, 1997 at 09:15:02 (EST)
Poster: Katie
Email: petkat@mail.trib.net
To: Mr Ex
Subject: Re: New start?
Message:
I have almost all files in my computer they are pwrforum(x).htm like I can make a zipped file out of them anybody wants them ? Is it possible to restore them? Hello, Mr. Ex, I know Bobby would like to have the files (and he can convert them, too). I would like to restore at least the past few days of messages becuase people posted some things that I thought were important to respond to. I am not sure if "Paradise" can restore the files (David and/or Scott may be able to find out), so I'm glad you saved your copy. We may need it to make an archive. Take care, Katie
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Date: Wed, Dec 10, 1997 at 12:26:48 (EST)
Poster: Mr Ex
Email:
To: Katie
Subject: Re: New start?
Message:
I have almost all files in my computer they are pwrforum(x).htm like I can make a zipped file out of them anybody wants them ? Is it possible to restore them? Hello, Mr. Ex, I know Bobby would like to have the files (and he can convert them, too). I would like to restore at least the past few days of messages becuase people posted some things that I thought were important to respond to. I am not sure if 'Paradise' can restore the files (David and/or Scott may be able to find out), so I'm glad you saved your copy. We may need it to make an archive. Take care, Katie I've already mailed you that archive. Didn't you get it? I'm going to mail it to Bobby too Have fun!
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Date: Wed, Dec 10, 1997 at 12:41:33 (EST)
Poster: Rick
Email: rtaraday@wco.com
To: Mr Ex
Subject: Re: New start?
Message:
I have almost all files in my computer they are pwrforum(x).htm like I can make a zipped file out of them anybody wants them ? Is it possible to restore them? Hello, Mr. Ex, I know Bobby would like to have the files (and he can convert them, too). I would like to restore at least the past few days of messages becuase people posted some things that I thought were important to respond to. I am not sure if 'Paradise' can restore the files (David and/or Scott may be able to find out), so I'm glad you saved your copy. We may need it to make an archive. Take care, Katie I've already mailed you that archive. Didn't you get it? I'm going to mail it to Bobby too Have fun! Mr Ex, Any chance of mailing me the archive too? Rick rtaraday@wco.com
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Date: Wed, Dec 10, 1997 at 12:42:49 (EST)
Poster: Mr Ex
Email:
To: Rick
Subject: Re: New start?
Message:
I have almost all files in my computer they are pwrforum(x).htm like I can make a zipped file out of them anybody wants them ? Is it possible to restore them? Hello, Mr. Ex, I know Bobby would like to have the files (and he can convert them, too). I would like to restore at least the past few days of messages becuase people posted some things that I thought were important to respond to. I am not sure if 'Paradise' can restore the files (David and/or Scott may be able to find out), so I'm glad you saved your copy. We may need it to make an archive. Take care, Katie I've already mailed you that archive. Didn't you get it? I'm going to mail it to Bobby too Have fun! Mr Ex, Any chance of mailing me the archive too? Rick rtaraday@wco.com Could you please ask it to Katie or Bobby : they now have it.
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Date: Wed, Dec 10, 1997 at 13:27:41 (EST)
Poster: Bobby
Email: bobby@ptd.net
To: Mr Ex
Subject: Re: New start?
Message:
Thanks for sending me the file Mr. Ex. I appreciate it. At 1:27 PM (EST) I haven't yet got the file but I guess its on its way Rick, I'll be happy to send you a copy when I get it. That goes for anyone else who is interested as well.
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Date: Wed, Dec 10, 1997 at 13:44:28 (EST)
Poster: David Simpkiss
Email:
To: Mr Ex
Subject: Re: New start?
Message:
Dear Mr Ex, Please mail me the file too, to david@studio57.demon.co.uk and NOT to my usual email address as that can't cope with attatchments. I may repost some of the messages to here if wanted. I think it's possible to disable this Forum and I think I know how it could be done. In answer to your question Katie, it's now 6:47 pm on Wednesday evening.
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Date: Wed, Dec 10, 1997 at 13:45:49 (EST)
Poster: Bobby
Email:
To: Anyone
Subject: Re: New start?
Message:
Just as I was writing the above post, I received the email. Thanks again. Unfortunately, a post I made just before the server went down (?) didn't make Mr. Ex's archive. Too bad, I liked what I wrote.
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Date: Wed, Dec 10, 1997 at 13:47:25 (EST)
Poster: Bobby
Email:
To: David Simpkiss
Subject: Re: New start?
Message:
Yeah, I'm wondering if we were disabled. Have you been in touch at all with Powerforum? Think they have a backup?
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Date: Wed, Dec 10, 1997 at 19:59:54 (EST)
Poster: David Simpkiss
Email: djulian@cix.compulink.co.uk
To: Bobby
Subject: Re: New start?
Message:
Yeah, I'm wondering if we were disabled. Have you been in touch at all with Powerforum? Think they have a backup?I haven't been in touch with Powerforum. I presumed David Stirling had told them about the crash. He does run it doesn't he? SOme people think I run it because my initials are the same and I live in Britain.
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Date: Wed, Dec 10, 1997 at 20:21:50 (EST)
Poster: Bobby
Email:
To: David Simpkiss
Subject: Re: New start?
Message:
Sorry David, I didn't think you ran the site, but I saw the name "David" and thought it was David Stirling I was talking to. Hello David Stirling, or Scott. What's happening? Will we ever see the full set of the original Forum II postings again?
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Date: Wed, Dec 10, 1997 at 21:06:50 (EST)
Poster: Katie
Email: petkat@mail.trib.net
To: Bobby and David
Subject: Trouble in Paradise (Re: New start?)
Message:
Dear Bobby and David - Here is David Stirling's explanation (I got it off of the Forum III). DS says (regarding the outage yesterday): I think it's all because Paradise are changing servers. There's a message on their home page which says the service will be down for a few hours. So let's wait and see what happens. Regarding the archives, I did get a note from someone - can't remember who - who said they were archiving all the messages. Can anyone confirm this? [Note: he is probably talking about Mr. Ex. Didn't Paradise lose all the messages once before when they had the OLD Forum?] And regarding my message about an even more advanced 'bells and whistles' bulletin board, I think I may have got the wrong end of the stick. It seems that the main difference between Powerfourum and Powerforum Plus is that the 'plus' has an editor which allows you to customise features. Paradise also boast that the connection is 'thousands of times better' than the ordinary version (which doesn't sound like a ringing endorsement of their product to me!). Perhaps we should wait and see what happens when Paradise have made their changes before making a final decision about changing to the 'plus'. I might be able to make this one look, feel and work a lot better than the previous one. And then we can all wave a fond farewell to the blond guy! David (end of David's message and as far as I know - which isn't much - David hasn't been able to contact Scott.) By the way, Mr. Ex, I did get that Zip File that you sent me and I tried to copy it into...not sure. Anyway, I lost it. This is embarassing. Thank you for sending it to me anyway, and at least Bobby has a copy and is responsible enough not to lose things. I agree that the two British David S.'s are confusing. Any ideas? One more thing - if anyone has been reading the newsgroup, billburke decided to quit the forum when the forum went down because he thought Maharaji had caused it. This makes me angry (not at Bill of course), and I hope he keeps posting. Regards, Katie P.S. My e-mail server is down, in case anyone has tried to mail me since this morning.
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Date: Wed, Dec 10, 1997 at 21:25:46 (EST)
Poster: Mr. Organization
Email: bobby@ptd.net
To: Katie
Subject: Re: Trouble in Playland (Re: New start?)
Message:
Katie said: .......and at least Bobby has a copy and is responsible enough not to lose things. Haaaa haaaaaaaaaa..... that's funny! the joke of the day for me Katie, you sounded so serious when you said that. seriously I do have a copy of the archive that Mr. Ex made. If anyone wants a copy, just email me.
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Date: Wed, Dec 10, 1997 at 21:31:04 (EST)
Poster: Katie
Email: petkat@mail.trib.net
To: Bobby the Paragon
Subject: Re: Trouble in Playland (Re: New start?)
Message:
Katie said: .......and at least Bobby has a copy and is responsible enough not to lose things. Haaaa haaaaaaaaaa..... that's funny! the joke of the day for me Katie, you sounded so serious when you said that. seriously I do have a copy of the archive that Mr. Ex made. If anyone wants a copy, just email me. I bow to your superior organizational skills... (actually, I probably mean superior computer skills) Mr. Ex will probably never send me a copy of anything again. :(
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Date: Wed, Dec 10, 1997 at 22:52:00 (EST)
Poster: Katie
Email:
To: Bobby the Good
Subject: Re: Trouble in Playland (Re: New start?)
Message:
Katie said: .......and at least Bobby has a copy and is responsible enough not to lose things. Haaaa haaaaaaaaaa..... that's funny! the joke of the day for me Katie, you sounded so serious when you said that. seriously I do have a copy of the archive that Mr. Ex made. If anyone wants a copy, just email me. I bow to your superior organizational skills... (actually, I probably mean superior computer skills) Mr. Ex will probably never send me a copy of anything again. :( In my defense, I would just like to mention that Bobby always steals the good colors of crayons (red and black). Plus he forgot it was Maharaji's birthday today!
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Date: Thurs, Dec 11, 1997 at 04:21:03 (EST)
Poster: Mr Ex
Email:
To: Katie
Subject: Re: Trouble in Playland (Re: New start?)
Message:
Poor Katie, don't cry anymore .... I'll send it again today. it looks like nothing has been lost, on my side anyway except for Bobby's last post, he himself liked so much That guy is very narcissic, like me ....
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