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Ex-Premie.Org |
Forum II Archive #
5 |
From:
Feb 4, 1998 |
To:
Feb 13, 1998 |
Page:
1
Of:
5 |
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Mili -:- Lighten up -:- Fri, Feb 13, 1998 at 02:27:18 (EST)
___Mickey the Pharisee -:- Re: Lighten up -:- Fri, Feb 13, 1998 at 02:33:45 (EST)
Suzie -:- Sublime rhyme -:- Fri, Feb 13, 1998 at 00:23:26 (EST)
___Ms. Katie -:- Suzie & the Pseudonyms -:- Fri, Feb 13, 1998 at 00:41:35 (EST)
___Jingo Lo Ba! -:- Re: Suzie & the Pseudonyms -:- Fri, Feb 13, 1998 at 02:56:36 (EST)
StephenB -:- To Be or not TO BE -:- Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 23:17:53 (EST)
___Katie -:- Re: To Be or not TO BE -:- Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 23:28:15 (EST)
Brian -:- Archiving: Friday - early AM (EST) -:- Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 21:43:40 (EST)
___Observer -:- Re: Archiving: Friday - early AM (EST) -:- Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 21:50:29 (EST)
Observer -:- how to use forum -:- Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 21:39:39 (EST)
___Brian -:- Re: how to use forum -:- Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 21:58:23 (EST)
Diver Dan -:- Maharaji Pictures ,Mags,Keepsakes..... -:- Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 20:53:07 (EST)
Selena -:- A little Confused -:- Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 20:43:33 (EST)
___Scott T. -:- Re: A little Confused -:- Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 20:49:07 (EST)
___Selena -:- Re: A little Confused -:- Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 21:03:25 (EST)
___Katie -:- Re: A little Confused -:- Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 21:18:44 (EST)
___A premie -:- Re: A little Confused -:- Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 21:58:23 (EST)
___A premie -:- Re: A little Confused -:- Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 22:49:11 (EST)
___JW -:- Re: A little Confused -:- Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 22:50:18 (EST)
___VP -:- Re: A little Confused -:- Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 22:55:01 (EST)
___A premie -:- Re: A little Confused -:- Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 22:57:17 (EST)
___JW -:- Re: A little Confused -:- Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 22:58:05 (EST)
___A premie -:- Re: A little Confused -:- Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 22:58:26 (EST)
___JW -:- Re: A little Confused -:- Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 23:04:19 (EST)
___A premie -:- Re: A little Confused -:- Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 23:10:00 (EST)
___A premie -:- Re: A little Confused -:- Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 23:13:47 (EST)
___JW -:- Re: A little Confused -:- Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 23:23:38 (EST)
___JW -:- Re: A little Confused -:- Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 23:26:48 (EST)
___Selena -:- Not as Confused Now -:- Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 23:28:43 (EST)
___A premie -:- Re: A little Confused -:- Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 23:29:16 (EST)
___A premie -:- Re: A little Confused -:- Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 23:31:09 (EST)
___A premie -:- Re: Not as Confused Now -:- Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 23:35:15 (EST)
___VP -:- Re: Not as Confused Now -:- Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 23:45:29 (EST)
___VP -:- A little bit backwards -:- Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 23:48:14 (EST)
___Katie -:- Re: Not as Confused Now -:- Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 23:50:45 (EST)
___Selena -:- Re: Not as Confused Now -:- Fri, Feb 13, 1998 at 00:05:21 (EST)
___JW -:- Re: A little Confused -:- Fri, Feb 13, 1998 at 00:13:57 (EST)
___JW -:- Re: A little Confused -:- Fri, Feb 13, 1998 at 00:29:13 (EST)
___Katie -:- Re: Not as Confused Now -:- Fri, Feb 13, 1998 at 00:50:45 (EST)
___JW -:- Re: A little Confused -:- Fri, Feb 13, 1998 at 00:59:13 (EST)
___Scott T. -:- Re: A little Confused -:- Fri, Feb 13, 1998 at 01:12:35 (EST)
___Scott T. -:- Re: A little Confused -:- Fri, Feb 13, 1998 at 01:24:16 (EST)
___JW -:- Re: A little Confused -:- Fri, Feb 13, 1998 at 01:50:43 (EST)
GMJ Appreciation Soc. -:- Into 2 K with GMJ -:- Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 20:15:36 (EST)
___JW -:- Re: Into 2 K with GMJ -:- Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 20:29:20 (EST)
___JW -:- Re: Into 2 K with GMJ -:- Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 20:30:55 (EST)
___bftb the daydreamer -:- Re: Into 2 K with GMJ -:- Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 20:52:28 (EST)
___GMJ Appreciation Soc -:- Re: Into 2 K with GMJ -:- Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 21:42:11 (EST)
___bftb -:- Re: Into 2 K with GMJ -:- Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 21:47:34 (EST)
___Sir David -:- Re: Into 2 K with GMJ -:- Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 22:00:53 (EST)
___VP -:- Catchy little rhyme there -:- Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 22:06:25 (EST)
___A premie -:- Re: Into 2 K with GMJ -:- Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 22:11:00 (EST)
___Sir David -:- Re: Into 2 K with GMJ -:- Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 23:11:05 (EST)
___GMJ Apreciation Soc. -:- Re: Catchy little rhyme there -:- Fri, Feb 13, 1998 at 00:19:30 (EST)
___Mickey the Pharisee -:- Re: Into 2 K with GMJ -:- Fri, Feb 13, 1998 at 02:31:53 (EST)
Premie -:- some Premies cant fake it -:- Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 20:05:20 (EST)
___Diver Dan -:- Re: some Premies cant fake it -:- Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 20:37:11 (EST)
___Diver Dan -:- Re: some Premies cant fake it -:- Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 20:37:25 (EST)
___Huh? -:- Re: some Premies cant fake it -:- Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 20:52:20 (EST)
___Katie -:- Anonymity and impersonations -:- Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 21:33:04 (EST)
John Cavad -:- Some Premies Can't Take It -:- Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 18:25:41 (EST)
___Rick -:- Re: Some Premies Can't Take It -:- Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 19:03:15 (EST)
Joy -:- Recommended Reading List -:- Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 12:54:53 (EST)
___Mili -:- Re: Recommended Reading List -:- Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 15:40:30 (EST)
___CD -:- Re: Recommended Reading List -:- Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 16:33:05 (EST)
___Two thumbs up -:- CD's list -:- Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 21:30:18 (EST)
___A premie -:- Re: Recommended Reading List -:- Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 22:07:30 (EST)
___CD -:- Re: CD's list -:- Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 22:52:45 (EST)
___VP -:- Re: CD's list -:- Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 23:02:43 (EST)
___Katie -:- Re: CD's list -:- Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 23:23:03 (EST)
___Joy -:- Re: Recommended Reading List -:- Fri, Feb 13, 1998 at 00:00:18 (EST)
___VP -:- CD's picture -:- Fri, Feb 13, 1998 at 00:01:38 (EST)
John Cavad -:- GMJ's bond with a Premie -:- Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 12:39:54 (EST)
___CD -:- Re: GMJ's bond with a Premie -:- Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 16:36:46 (EST)
___Red Crow -:- Re: GMJ's bond with a Premie -:- Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 19:29:01 (EST)
___A premie -:- Re: GMJ's bond with a Premie -:- Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 21:54:45 (EST)
John Cavad -:- Results of Surrender -:- Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 12:25:20 (EST)
___me -:- Re: Results of Surrender -:- Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 15:01:54 (EST)
___JW -:- Re: Results of Surrender -:- Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 15:08:45 (EST)
___JW -:- Re: Results of Surrender -:- Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 15:12:36 (EST)
___Miss Manners -:- Re: Results of Surrender -:- Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 21:45:50 (EST)
Katie -:- the Visions International phone number -:- Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 00:26:56 (EST)
___VP -:- Re: the Visions International phone number -:- Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 00:33:56 (EST)
___Katie -:- Re: the Visions International phone number -:- Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 12:40:14 (EST)
___CD -:- Re: the Visions International phone number -:- Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 16:19:54 (EST)
___Katie -:- Re: the Visions International phone number -:- Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 20:20:34 (EST)
A premie -:- Reprise - Why do people like devotion -:- Wed, Feb 11, 1998 at 23:28:51 (EST)
___70's premie -:- Re: Reprise - Why do people like devotion -:- Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 00:46:11 (EST)
___JW -:- Re: Reprise - Why do people like devotion -:- Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 01:20:11 (EST)
___JW -:- Re: Reprise - Why do people like devotion -:- Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 02:05:56 (EST)
___Mili -:- Re: Reprise - Why do people like devotion -:- Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 02:52:06 (EST)
___Brian -:- Re: Reprise - Why do people like devotion -:- Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 06:19:28 (EST)
___Anon -:- Re: Reprise - Why do people like devotion -:- Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 07:05:59 (EST)
___Mili -:- Re: Reprise - Why do people like devotion -:- Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 08:19:12 (EST)
___Mili -:- Re: Reprise - Why do people like devotion -:- Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 08:32:05 (EST)
___Scott T. -:- Re: Reprise - Why do people like devotion -:- Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 09:28:09 (EST)
___Sir David -:- Re: Reprise - Why do people like devotion -:- Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 09:48:45 (EST)
___Mr Ex -:- Why do people leave devotion? -:- Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 10:12:08 (EST)
___VP -:- Re: Reprise - Why do people like devotion -:- Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 10:17:29 (EST)
___Scott T. -:- Re: Why do people leave devotion? -:- Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 10:57:16 (EST)
___Katie off topic -:- To Mili -:- Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 11:48:42 (EST)
___Mili -:- Katie off topic -:- Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 13:49:00 (EST)
___Katie -:- Re: Katie off topic -:- Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 14:07:08 (EST)
___eb -:- Re: Why do people leave devotion? -:- Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 14:17:49 (EST)
___A premie -:- Re: Reprise - Why do people like devotion -:- Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 17:47:11 (EST)
___bftb -:- Re: Katie off topic -:- Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 17:48:34 (EST)
___A premie -:- Re: Why do people leave devotion? -:- Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 17:54:24 (EST)
___Mili -:- to bro bftb -:- Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 18:08:18 (EST)
___A premie -:- Re: Reprise - Why do people like devotion -:- Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 18:09:02 (EST)
___A premie -:- Re: Why do people leave devotion? -:- Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 18:11:50 (EST)
___A premie -:- Re: Reprise - Why do people like devotion -:- Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 18:25:41 (EST)
___JW -:- Re: Reprise - Why do people like devotion -:- Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 19:25:06 (EST)
___Bongo -:- Re: Reprise - Why do people like devotion -:- Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 19:58:57 (EST)
___A true devotee -:- Re: Reprise - Why do people like devotion -:- Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 20:15:04 (EST)
___bftb -:- Re: to bro bftb -:- Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 20:37:27 (EST)
___A premie -:- Re: Reprise - Why do people like devotion -:- Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 21:36:16 (EST)
___Brian -:- Re: Reprise - Why do people like devotion -:- Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 22:18:22 (EST)
___A premie -:- Re: Reprise - Why do people like devotion -:- Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 22:37:17 (EST)
___JW -:- Re: Reprise - Why do people like devotion -:- Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 22:39:52 (EST)
___VP -:- Re: Reprise - Why do people like devotion -:- Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 23:20:36 (EST)
___A premie -:- Re: Reprise - Why do people like devotion -:- Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 23:41:39 (EST)
John Cavad -:- Palm Island, Miami, Florida -:- Wed, Feb 11, 1998 at 20:02:31 (EST)
___Suzie -:- Re: Palm Island, Miami, Florida -:- Wed, Feb 11, 1998 at 21:22:12 (EST)
___John Cavad -:- Re: Palm Island, Miami, Florida -:- Wed, Feb 11, 1998 at 23:08:01 (EST)
___JW -:- Re: Palm Island, Miami, Florida -:- Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 01:14:11 (EST)
___Brian -:- Re: Palm Island, Miami, Florida -:- Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 06:24:41 (EST)
___VP -:- No answers, again... -:- Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 10:35:17 (EST)
___John Cavad -:- Re: Palm Island, Miami, Florida -:- Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 11:56:14 (EST)
___Luis -:- Re: Palm Island, Miami, Florida -:- Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 12:14:58 (EST)
___JW -:- Re: Palm Island, Miami, Florida -:- Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 12:33:56 (EST)
___Joy -:- Re: Palm Island, Miami, Florida -:- Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 13:11:18 (EST)
___me -:- Re: Palm Island, Miami, Florida -:- Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 17:27:31 (EST)
___JW -:- Re: Palm Island, Miami, Florida -:- Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 19:37:57 (EST)
VP -:- Song -:- Wed, Feb 11, 1998 at 19:23:23 (EST)
___CD -:- Re: Song -:- Wed, Feb 11, 1998 at 19:29:37 (EST)
___VP -:- Re: Song -:- Wed, Feb 11, 1998 at 19:32:23 (EST)
___CD -:- Re: Song -:- Wed, Feb 11, 1998 at 19:36:08 (EST)
___Joy -:- Re: Song -:- Wed, Feb 11, 1998 at 19:47:52 (EST)
___lg -:- Re: Song -:- Wed, Feb 11, 1998 at 19:58:06 (EST)
___Selena -:- Re: Song lyrics continued -:- Wed, Feb 11, 1998 at 21:12:43 (EST)
___VP -:- Re: Song lyrics continued -:- Wed, Feb 11, 1998 at 21:50:57 (EST)
___VP -:- Re: Song lyrics continued -:- Wed, Feb 11, 1998 at 21:55:46 (EST)
___CD -:- Re: Song lyrics continued -:- Wed, Feb 11, 1998 at 22:51:52 (EST)
___VP -:- Re: Song lyrics continued -:- Wed, Feb 11, 1998 at 22:58:38 (EST)
___CD -:- Re: Song lyrics continued -:- Wed, Feb 11, 1998 at 23:10:27 (EST)
___VP -:- Visions Catalog -:- Wed, Feb 11, 1998 at 23:15:02 (EST)
___CD -:- Re: Visions Catalog -:- Wed, Feb 11, 1998 at 23:18:54 (EST)
___VP -:- Re: Visions Catalog -:- Wed, Feb 11, 1998 at 23:22:36 (EST)
___CD -:- Re: Visions Catalog -:- Wed, Feb 11, 1998 at 23:36:00 (EST)
___VP -:- End of pissing contest! -:- Wed, Feb 11, 1998 at 23:51:34 (EST)
___Selena -:- Re: Song lyrics continued -:- Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 13:34:26 (EST)
___JW -:- Re: Song lyrics continued -:- Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 14:25:53 (EST)
___VP -:- Minor key -:- Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 14:56:23 (EST)
___VP -:- mmmmm floor pie -:- Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 14:58:54 (EST)
___Selana -:- Re: mmmmm floor pie -:- Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 15:58:59 (EST)
___Selena -:- Re: Song lyrics continued -:- Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 16:07:30 (EST)
___VP -:- Re: mmmmm floor pie -:- Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 16:09:06 (EST)
___Selena -:- Re: mmmmm floor pie -:- Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 16:33:40 (EST)
___Diver Dan -:- Re: mmmmm floor pie -:- Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 21:19:30 (EST)
___VP -:- Re: mmmmm floor pie -:- Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 22:25:56 (EST)
___Selena -:- Re: mmmmm floor pie -:- Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 23:47:25 (EST)
___Mickey the Phairisee -:- Re: Song lyrics continued -:- Fri, Feb 13, 1998 at 01:36:16 (EST)
___Mickey the Pharisee -:- Re: mmmmm floor pie -:- Fri, Feb 13, 1998 at 01:40:27 (EST)
Date: Fri, Feb 13, 1998 at 02:27:18 (EST)
Poster: Mili
Email: mili@cheerful.com
To: Everyone
Subject: Lighten up
Message:
* I love defenseless animals, especially in a good gravy.
* Quantum Mechanics: The dreams stuff is made of.
* When everything's coming your way, you're in the wrong lane.
* Everyone has a photographic memory. Some just don't have film.
* Who is General Failure and why is he reading my hard disk?
* When I'm not in my right mind, my left mind gets pretty crowded.
* What happens if you get scared half to death twice?
* How do you tell when you run out of invisible ink?
* Why do psychics have to ask you for your name?
* All those who believe in psychokinesis raise my hand.
* I tried sniffing Coke once, but the ice cubes got stuck in my nose.
* OK, so what's the speed of dark?
* Join the Army, meet interesting people, kill them.
* Early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
Back To Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Fri, Feb 13, 1998 at 02:33:45 (EST)
Poster: Mickey the Pharisee
Email: mgdbach@ziplink.net
To: Mili
Subject: Re: Lighten up
Message:
Ha ha ha, Pretty good, Mili!:-)
Back To Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Fri, Feb 13, 1998 at 00:23:26 (EST)
Poster: Suzie
Email:
To: VP
Subject: Sublime rhyme
Message:
VP get a grip
You have let devotion slip
Back To Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Fri, Feb 13, 1998 at 00:41:35 (EST)
Poster: Ms. Katie
Email:
To: whoever you are
Subject: Suzie & the Pseudonyms (Re: Sublime rhyme)
Message:
Guess what: Suzie = Bongo = GMJ Appreciation Society = our old friend Dawn the aspirant!
Get a grip yourself, honey. You're not supposed to receive knowledge twice, no matter how much ol' negativity you're exposed to.
Back To Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Fri, Feb 13, 1998 at 02:56:36 (EST)
Poster: Jingo Lo Ba!
Email: mili@cheerful.com
To: Ms. Katie
Subject: Re: Suzie & the Pseudonyms (Re: Sublime rhyme)
Message:
Guess what: Suzie = Bongo = GMJ Appreciation Society = our old friend Dawn the aspirant!
Get a grip yourself, honey. You're not supposed to receive knowledge twice, no matter how much ol' negativity you're exposed to.
Guess what: Anon = Mr.Ex = Malibu Mole = Englebert Humperdink
Hey, it's carnival time!
Back To Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 23:17:53 (EST)
Poster: StephenB
Email:
To: Everyone
Subject: To Be or not TO BE
Message:
I wanted to thank those of you who have corresponded and answered my posts (esp. for your kindness Katie) I have asked Brian to remove my name from the list of EXs. It occurs to me that I don't want to be an ex-premie any more than I want to be a premie. I hope I am still welcome to post and correspond from time to time.
StephenB, human
Back To Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 23:28:15 (EST)
Poster: Katie
Email: petkat@mail.trib.net
To: StephenB
Subject: Re: To Be or not TO BE
Message:
I wanted to thank those of you who have corresponded and answered my posts (esp. for your kindness Katie) I have asked Brian to remove my name from the list of EXs. It occurs to me that I don't want to be an ex-premie any more than I want to be a premie. I hope I am still welcome to post and correspond from time to time.
StephenB, human
Thanks, Stephen. You (or anyone else) are welcome to post here any time you want.
Regards from Katie
Back To Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 21:43:40 (EST)
Poster: Brian
Email: brian@ex-premie.org
To: Everyone
Subject: Archiving: Friday - early AM (EST)
Message:
I'm gonna archive this dog early tomorrow (Friday). The resulting archive (#5) should be online soon after for those that want to refer back to it.
Also, I will change the availability of the archive files by breaking each Forum II archive into 5 HTML files that browsers can browse online if they choose. The ZIP file will contain all 5 files for those who want to browse offline.
Watch for it at a Forum near you!
Back To Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 21:50:29 (EST)
Poster: Observer
Email:
To: Brian
Subject: Re: Archiving: Friday - early AM (EST)
Message:
Brain,
I think being able to browse forum II archives on-line is really great. I hope this applies to what you have already archived.
Thanks once again.
Observer
Back To Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 21:39:39 (EST)
Poster: Observer
Email:
To: Brian
Subject: how to use forum
Message:
Dear Brian,
Thanks for maintaining the site and forum. It is human; emotional, interesting, and diverse. Sometimes fascinating.
I would like some user help info please. When I re-enter the forum, how can I identify all the new messages that I have not read before? Generally, I want to read all new messages that I have not read before. I see the yellow and green flags. A lot of them I may have read already, but how do I know which ones? And how do I know that a new flag isn't burried back in an older thread that is not showing up on the first page of the list?
Also, if I ask for all messages, not just the first 50, then when I am done reading the one I'm intersted in, I hit return to messages, but it goes back to the first 50, which means I have to then load all the messages all over again. Is there any way around this?
What I am trying to do is to make sure I am reading all new messages, and since the list is in order of subject, I find it is not easy for me to identify from the list which messages I have read before from the ones that I have not read before. I wish that I had a quick way to solve this. Any ideas how to do this?
Thank you for your help and eforts.
An observer
Back To Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 21:58:23 (EST)
Poster: Brian
Email: brian@ex-premie.org
To: Observer
Subject: Re: how to use forum
Message:
Greetings Observer. Lots of questions...
First about which messages you have read:
Make sure that you have your browser configured to display visited links in a different color than ones that you haven't visited. Under Netscape, you set it from "Options" on the menu, General Preferences, Colors. Don't know about Internet Explorer, but it should be somewhat similar since Bill Gates is not known to be in Internet Innovator. My browser shows unvisited links (ones I haven't clicked on yet) as being blue. Visited links show up a purple (or some purplish color).
As for loading and returning to the entire index list:
After you load the entire index, bookmark it and use that link from now on if you want to see the whole index instead of the default one that you are probably using now.
When you are done reading a post, click on your browser's "Back" button instead of the "Message List" link at the bottom of this page. I didn't put that one there - the forum server did.
Back To Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 20:53:07 (EST)
Poster: Diver Dan
Email: crothfam@idirect.com
To: Everyone
Subject: Maharaji Pictures ,Mags,Keepsakes.....
Message:
Hey since most of you "ex"devotees don't want nor need your pictures,magazines and basic Guru worship articles any more why not send them to someone who would really , really appriciate them! Don't burn them or throw them away Recycle for the good of the envirment and my soul. I could also use a good barogoon even if only "very" slightly used!!!! Sorry for the double post below problem with my server ! So send those packages right away I am truly looking forward to them all sarcasim aside!!! To : Dan Crothers 9 Lillington Street Brampton, Ontario, Canada,L6S 4B8 THANKYOU in advance!!!!
Back To Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 20:43:33 (EST)
Poster: Selena
Email:
To: Everyone
Subject: A little Confused
Message:
While I can still take advantage of my new status, I have to ask;
Why do people on this list respond to some of the intentionally provocative posts by premies?
It just seems like they are deliberately baiting and not seeking any real input, so why answer?
If it's for entertainment value, or for that matter, whatever the reason, that's cool, I just really wanted to know. Just curious I guess.
Back To Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 20:49:07 (EST)
Poster: Scott T.
Email:
To: Selena
Subject: Re: A little Confused
Message:
While I can still take advantage of my new status, I have to ask;
Why do people on this list respond to some of the intentionally provocative posts by premies?
It just seems like they are deliberately baiting and not seeking any real input, so why answer?
If it's for entertainment value, or for that matter, whatever the reason, that's cool, I just really wanted to know. Just curious I guess.
Selena:
I just had a rather whimsical thought. Suppose all of those comments are coming from GMJ himself? He's sitting at some computer terminal, attempting to promote his point of view as though he were an anonymous premie. Just an amusing thing to think about...
-Scott
Back To Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 21:03:25 (EST)
Poster: Selena
Email:
To: Scott T.
Subject: Re: A little Confused
Message:
Scott
I am so glad you responded. I had just reread my post and the first line " my new status " sounded so dumb. I had meant my status as being new to the list. but, it sounded like something else, pretentious. Then you wrote that about M posting all the premie messages, and I thought, why ever worry about appearing arrogant? The most arrogant person I know, M, is adored for that. Your idea isn't so whimsical. It would be just like him, although, if he did think of it, he'd make someone else do the actual work of posting, most likely. Someone trusted that is.
Back To Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 21:18:44 (EST)
Poster: Katie
Email:
To: Selena
Subject: Re: A little Confused
Message:
While I can still take advantage of my new status, I have to ask;
Why do people on this list respond to some of the intentionally provocative posts by premies?
It just seems like they are deliberately baiting and not seeking any real input, so why answer?
If it's for entertainment value, or for that matter, whatever the reason, that's cool, I just really wanted to know. Just curious I guess.
Hi Selena - I know that I respond to some of the stuff because it makes me angry. I have a short fuse but I don't stay angry long. Most of the time I am able to walk away and chill out (I know that's the "right" thing to do) but sometimes I'm having a bad day and I just don't. You can probably understand this!
Also, there are a few people on here who are masters of sarcasm and answering the posts seems to give them a chance to practise their talents (and make the rest of us laugh in the meantime.) There are also one or two people on here who enjoy arguing with premies, and are very good at it.
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Date: Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 21:58:23 (EST)
Poster: A premie
Email:
To: Selena
Subject: Re: A little Confused
Message:
While I can still take advantage of my new status, I have to ask;
Why do people on this list respond to some of the intentionally provocative posts by premies?
It just seems like they are deliberately baiting and not seeking any real input, so why answer?
If it's for entertainment value, or for that matter, whatever the reason, that's cool, I just really wanted to know. Just curious I guess.
What are you afraid of Selena? Are you building another house of cards?
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Date: Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 22:49:11 (EST)
Poster: A premie
Email:
To: Selena
Subject: Re: A little Confused
Message:
While I can still take advantage of my new status, I have to ask;
Why do people on this list respond to some of the intentionally provocative posts by premies?
It just seems like they are deliberately baiting and not seeking any real input, so why answer?
If it's for entertainment value, or for that matter, whatever the reason, that's cool, I just really wanted to know. Just curious I guess.
What are you afraid of Selena? The mere presence of this site is provocation to some. Provocation is something you have to deal with the minute you choose to open your mouth and attempt to utter something intelligent (don't get me wrong, I'm not saying this site is intelligent).
But you're right, I for one am not seeking "real input" from you. You seem to be the one who's "a little confused" and needy of input from the support group. Be careful though that you don't filter out some unexpected truth in your caution.
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Date: Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 22:50:18 (EST)
Poster: JW
Email:
To: Selena
Subject: Re: A little Confused
Message:
While I can still take advantage of my new status, I have to ask;
Why do people on this list respond to some of the intentionally provocative posts by premies?
It just seems like they are deliberately baiting and not seeking any real input, so why answer?
If it's for entertainment value, or for that matter, whatever the reason, that's cool, I just really wanted to know. Just curious I guess.
I have thought the same thing, Selena. Sometimes I do ignore the particularly ignorant posts. But it's always in the back of my head that people who are just considering getting involved with M are also reading this site. I guess sometimes I feel like I want to respond just to give the other side of the story, so those people are in a better position to make up their own minds. They certainly aren't able to talk about their doubts in one of those aspirant programs!
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Date: Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 22:55:01 (EST)
Poster: VP
Email:
To: A premie
Subject: Re: A little Confused
Message:
While I can still take advantage of my new status, I have to ask;
Why do people on this list respond to some of the intentionally provocative posts by premies?
It just seems like they are deliberately baiting and not seeking any real input, so why answer?
If it's for entertainment value, or for that matter, whatever the reason, that's cool, I just really wanted to know. Just curious I guess.
What are you afraid of Selena? The mere presence of this site is provocation to some. Provocation is something you have to deal with the minute you choose to open your mouth and attempt to utter something intelligent (don't get me wrong, I'm not saying this site is intelligent).
But you're right, I for one am not seeking 'real input' from you. You seem to be the one who's 'a little confused' and needy of input from the support group. Be careful though that you don't filter out some unexpected truth in your caution.
If you aren't seeking any "real input" then why even waste your time here? Doing a little "service"? (Don't misunderstand me, I am not saying you shouldn't be here. I just want to know what the draw is-especially since M has forbidden this to you. How devoted are you if you are ignoring the command of the master?)
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Date: Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 22:57:17 (EST)
Poster: A premie
Email:
To: JW
Subject: Re: A little Confused
Message:
While I can still take advantage of my new status, I have to ask;
Why do people on this list respond to some of the intentionally provocative posts by premies?
It just seems like they are deliberately baiting and not seeking any real input, so why answer?
If it's for entertainment value, or for that matter, whatever the reason, that's cool, I just really wanted to know. Just curious I guess.
I have thought the same thing, Selena. Sometimes I do ignore the particularly ignorant posts. But it's always in the back of my head that people who are just considering getting involved with M are also reading this site. I guess sometimes I feel like I want to respond just to give the other side of the story, so those people are in a better position to make up their own minds. They certainly aren't able to talk about their doubts in one of those aspirant programs!
WHAT!!! You couldn't be farther from the truth. The aspirant program is *designed* for people to talk out their doubts. You know as well as I do that that has *always* been the standing invitation. "Come, listen ask your questions, and when you are ready to receive K, you can receive it." The ready bit, by the way, is having satisfied your doubts and concerns through the questioning process.
Geez, if you're going to stand up and "attempt to utter something intelligent" please be fair and base your "facts" in reality.
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Date: Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 22:58:05 (EST)
Poster: JW
Email:
To: A premie
Subject: Re: A little Confused
Message:
While I can still take advantage of my new status, I have to ask;
Why do people on this list respond to some of the intentionally provocative posts by premies?
It just seems like they are deliberately baiting and not seeking any real input, so why answer?
If it's for entertainment value, or for that matter, whatever the reason, that's cool, I just really wanted to know. Just curious I guess.
What are you afraid of Selena? The mere presence of this site is provocation to some. Provocation is something you have to deal with the minute you choose to open your mouth and attempt to utter something intelligent (don't get me wrong, I'm not saying this site is intelligent).
But you're right, I for one am not seeking 'real input' from you. You seem to be the one who's 'a little confused' and needy of input from the support group. Be careful though that you don't filter out some unexpected truth in your caution.
You give new meaning to the term "spiritual ego." Do you have any conception how you come across? Maybe you could try a little empathy and humility as to what someone else might be feeling and in expressing your superior understanding of what devotion and truth are. It might be easier for people to listen to what you have to say. Just a suggestion.
As for this site being a provocation, don't you think it's interesting that Maharaji banned the only site where premies might be able to post without "provocation?" And no one is forcing you to be here, you know.
Whether Selena needs support or not, I can't say. She seems to be doing extremely well on her own. When I left the Maharaji cult I needed support too. I wish there had been something around like this site.
Sorry, can you explain the last sentence of your post. It's incomprehensible.
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Date: Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 22:58:26 (EST)
Poster: A premie
Email:
To: VP
Subject: Re: A little Confused
Message:
While I can still take advantage of my new status, I have to ask;
Why do people on this list respond to some of the intentionally provocative posts by premies?
It just seems like they are deliberately baiting and not seeking any real input, so why answer?
If it's for entertainment value, or for that matter, whatever the reason, that's cool, I just really wanted to know. Just curious I guess.
What are you afraid of Selena? The mere presence of this site is provocation to some. Provocation is something you have to deal with the minute you choose to open your mouth and attempt to utter something intelligent (don't get me wrong, I'm not saying this site is intelligent).
But you're right, I for one am not seeking 'real input' from you. You seem to be the one who's 'a little confused' and needy of input from the support group. Be careful though that you don't filter out some unexpected truth in your caution.
If you aren't seeking any 'real input' then why even waste your time here? Doing a little 'service'? (Don't misunderstand me, I am not saying you shouldn't be here. I just want to know what the draw is-especially since M has forbidden this to you. How devoted are you if you are ignoring the command of the master?)
I'm bored with TV.
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Date: Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 23:04:19 (EST)
Poster: JW
Email:
To: A premie
Subject: Re: A little Confused
Message:
While I can still take advantage of my new status, I have to ask;
Why do people on this list respond to some of the intentionally provocative posts by premies?
It just seems like they are deliberately baiting and not seeking any real input, so why answer?
If it's for entertainment value, or for that matter, whatever the reason, that's cool, I just really wanted to know. Just curious I guess.
I have thought the same thing, Selena. Sometimes I do ignore the particularly ignorant posts. But it's always in the back of my head that people who are just considering getting involved with M are also reading this site. I guess sometimes I feel like I want to respond just to give the other side of the story, so those people are in a better position to make up their own minds. They certainly aren't able to talk about their doubts in one of those aspirant programs!
WHAT!!! You couldn't be farther from the truth. The aspirant program is *designed* for people to talk out their doubts. You know as well as I do that that has *always* been the standing invitation. 'Come, listen ask your questions, and when you are ready to receive K, you can receive it.' The ready bit, by the way, is having satisfied your doubts and concerns through the questioning process.
Geez, if you're going to stand up and 'attempt to utter something intelligent' please be fair and base your 'facts' in reality.
Sorry premie but what you are saying is spin,spin,spin. Maybe you could get a job with the Clinton administration.
If an aspirant continually questioned M's fabulous wealth, doubted whether he is worthy of devotion, expressed that M was physically unattractive, spoke in a boring, repetitive fashion, and said he or she had no intention of being "keeping in touch," and stated outright that he or she intended to receive knowledge and probably never return again, how likely would it be that he or she would reveive knowledge?
I don't see any way that you can read that initiator manual objectively and not be disturbed at how questions are NOT answered and how initiators are trained to simply throw questions back at aspirants. People learn pretty quickly, as they did when I received knowledge, that if you ask too many questions, you don't get knowledge.
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Date: Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 23:10:00 (EST)
Poster: A premie
Email:
To: JW
Subject: Re: A little Confused
Message:
While I can still take advantage of my new status, I have to ask;
Why do people on this list respond to some of the intentionally provocative posts by premies?
It just seems like they are deliberately baiting and not seeking any real input, so why answer?
If it's for entertainment value, or for that matter, whatever the reason, that's cool, I just really wanted to know. Just curious I guess.
What are you afraid of Selena? The mere presence of this site is provocation to some. Provocation is something you have to deal with the minute you choose to open your mouth and attempt to utter something intelligent (don't get me wrong, I'm not saying this site is intelligent).
But you're right, I for one am not seeking 'real input' from you. You seem to be the one who's 'a little confused' and needy of input from the support group. Be careful though that you don't filter out some unexpected truth in your caution.
You give new meaning to the term 'spiritual ego.' Do you have any conception how you come across? Maybe you could try a little empathy and humility as to what someone else might be feeling and in expressing your superior understanding of what devotion and truth are. It might be easier for people to listen to what you have to say. Just a suggestion.
As for this site being a provocation, don't you think it's interesting that Maharaji banned the only site where premies might be able to post without 'provocation?' And no one is forcing you to be here, you know.
Whether Selena needs support or not, I can't say. She seems to be doing extremely well on her own. When I left the Maharaji cult I needed support too. I wish there had been something around like this site.
Sorry, can you explain the last sentence of your post. It's incomprehensible.
Sorry JW, I did get a little filled with myself didn't I.
As for my "superior knowledge...", just calling it as I see it. Sorry if it comes off as being arrogant. I just get a little impatient with the pseudo-support group flavour of this site.
Last sentence means, if all you want to see are people who believe the same thing as you do, then where is the openess to other points of view.
And yeah I could not come here but it's intersting conversation (sometimes). Besides when I get filled with myself, it's good to have a place to download?
BTW, do you always take yourself so seriously?
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Date: Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 23:13:47 (EST)
Poster: A premie
Email:
To: JW
Subject: Re: A little Confused
Message:
While I can still take advantage of my new status, I have to ask;
Why do people on this list respond to some of the intentionally provocative posts by premies?
It just seems like they are deliberately baiting and not seeking any real input, so why answer?
If it's for entertainment value, or for that matter, whatever the reason, that's cool, I just really wanted to know. Just curious I guess.
I have thought the same thing, Selena. Sometimes I do ignore the particularly ignorant posts. But it's always in the back of my head that people who are just considering getting involved with M are also reading this site. I guess sometimes I feel like I want to respond just to give the other side of the story, so those people are in a better position to make up their own minds. They certainly aren't able to talk about their doubts in one of those aspirant programs!
WHAT!!! You couldn't be farther from the truth. The aspirant program is *designed* for people to talk out their doubts. You know as well as I do that that has *always* been the standing invitation. 'Come, listen ask your questions, and when you are ready to receive K, you can receive it.' The ready bit, by the way, is having satisfied your doubts and concerns through the questioning process.
Geez, if you're going to stand up and 'attempt to utter something intelligent' please be fair and base your 'facts' in reality.
Sorry premie but what you are saying is spin,spin,spin. Maybe you could get a job with the Clinton administration.
If an aspirant continually questioned M's fabulous wealth, doubted whether he is worthy of devotion, expressed that M was physically unattractive, spoke in a boring, repetitive fashion, and said he or she had no intention of being 'keeping in touch,' and stated outright that he or she intended to receive knowledge and probably never return again, how likely would it be that he or she would reveive knowledge?
I don't see any way that you can read that initiator manual objectively and not be disturbed at how questions are NOT answered and how initiators are trained to simply throw questions back at aspirants. People learn pretty quickly, as they did when I received knowledge, that if you ask too many questions, you don't get knowledge.
Sorry Joe, I've seen too many people come and say the worst things about Maharaji, and eventually get Knowledge to believe YOUR spin. And it's by helping the person through the process of questioning that it happened. And believe me Joe when I say, I WAS an instructor, and there was NEVER any intention on my part to deceive or mislead or hide.
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Date: Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 23:23:38 (EST)
Poster: JW
Email:
To: A premie
Subject: Re: A little Confused
Message:
While I can still take advantage of my new status, I have to ask;
Why do people on this list respond to some of the intentionally provocative posts by premies?
It just seems like they are deliberately baiting and not seeking any real input, so why answer?
If it's for entertainment value, or for that matter, whatever the reason, that's cool, I just really wanted to know. Just curious I guess.
What are you afraid of Selena? The mere presence of this site is provocation to some. Provocation is something you have to deal with the minute you choose to open your mouth and attempt to utter something intelligent (don't get me wrong, I'm not saying this site is intelligent).
But you're right, I for one am not seeking 'real input' from you. You seem to be the one who's 'a little confused' and needy of input from the support group. Be careful though that you don't filter out some unexpected truth in your caution.
You give new meaning to the term 'spiritual ego.' Do you have any conception how you come across? Maybe you could try a little empathy and humility as to what someone else might be feeling and in expressing your superior understanding of what devotion and truth are. It might be easier for people to listen to what you have to say. Just a suggestion.
As for this site being a provocation, don't you think it's interesting that Maharaji banned the only site where premies might be able to post without 'provocation?' And no one is forcing you to be here, you know.
Whether Selena needs support or not, I can't say. She seems to be doing extremely well on her own. When I left the Maharaji cult I needed support too. I wish there had been something around like this site.
Sorry, can you explain the last sentence of your post. It's incomprehensible.
Sorry JW, I did get a little filled with myself didn't I.
As for my 'superior knowledge...', just calling it as I see it. Sorry if it comes off as being arrogant. I just get a little impatient with the pseudo-support group flavour of this site.
Last sentence means, if all you want to see are people who believe the same thing as you do, then where is the openess to other points of view.
And yeah I could not come here but it's intersting conversation (sometimes). Besides when I get filled with myself, it's good to have a place to download?
BTW, do you always take yourself so seriously?
Thanks, premie. I try not to take myself too seriously, and usually I don't.
As you can see, I tend to react when I feel spiritual condescension from a premie, because so much of that was laid on me in 10 years in the ashram. And trying to be a good devotee, I took most of it without question. I'm a little more sensitive to it than I should be, even after all these years. I've hardly thought about my years as a premie for a good 10 years until this site came along a few months ago. It's been a really good, cleansing experience for me. And now with a lot of time passed, I think I can express how I feel about it all a lot better than I could in the years after I left.
And as you can also probably tell, Maharaji and devotion to him were absolutely everything to me for a long, long time. Discovering the lie is REALLY hard to accept and face. At least it was a lie for me. I can't speak for anyone else.
And I have been much happier since I left all that than I ever was participating in it. But because it was so central to me, I can't be entirely detached, although for the most part I am. And so, when someone says that I never really understood what devotion was, it really pushes some buttons, because, besides being not true, it's a pretty arrogant thing to say to someone who gave M everything.
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Date: Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 23:26:48 (EST)
Poster: JW
Email:
To: A premie
Subject: Re: A little Confused
Message:
Do you tell an aspirant about darshan at an introductory program? If you don't, I call that hiding something.
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Date: Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 23:28:43 (EST)
Poster: Selena
Email:
To: everyone
Subject: Not as Confused Now (Re: A little Confused)
Message:
This thread reinforces my desire to not respond to the stuff from premies that I consider non productive, and, dare I say it? Negative.
I am indeed confused and in need of support. That's why I started posting here! I have absolutely no problem admitting that. It took me a long to time even feel remotely ok after my visit to the divine lotus feet of M at Long Beach. This site has helped tremendously.
Another thing that helped, I will post now, it may help those of you who are here for the reasons the site is here:
Someone who has been helping me exit, said " I am not impressed by displays of religiousity"
I asked her to explain and she talked about her Catholic mother who always had the rosary out every morning and night, who attended all the rituals, etc.. who constantly talked about God's grace and faith and meanwhile abused her, both physically and emotionally.
This made her see, all the verbage and rituals don't mean shit. It's peoples actions that show where they really are coming from.
I think the postings in this thread emphasize what she was saying. The kindness and support that I asked for I received from the ex premies. The other postings don't mean anything to me, except for a fleeting reminder of all the hurt and betrayal I have only recently left behind.
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Date: Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 23:29:16 (EST)
Poster: A premie
Email:
To: JW
Subject: Re: A little Confused
Message:
While I can still take advantage of my new status, I have to ask;
Why do people on this list respond to some of the intentionally provocative posts by premies?
It just seems like they are deliberately baiting and not seeking any real input, so why answer?
If it's for entertainment value, or for that matter, whatever the reason, that's cool, I just really wanted to know. Just curious I guess.
I have thought the same thing, Selena. Sometimes I do ignore the particularly ignorant posts. But it's always in the back of my head that people who are just considering getting involved with M are also reading this site. I guess sometimes I feel like I want to respond just to give the other side of the story, so those people are in a better position to make up their own minds. They certainly aren't able to talk about their doubts in one of those aspirant programs!
WHAT!!! You couldn't be farther from the truth. The aspirant program is *designed* for people to talk out their doubts. You know as well as I do that that has *always* been the standing invitation. 'Come, listen ask your questions, and when you are ready to receive K, you can receive it.' The ready bit, by the way, is having satisfied your doubts and concerns through the questioning process.
Geez, if you're going to stand up and 'attempt to utter something intelligent' please be fair and base your 'facts' in reality.
Sorry premie but what you are saying is spin,spin,spin. Maybe you could get a job with the Clinton administration.
If an aspirant continually questioned M's fabulous wealth, doubted whether he is worthy of devotion, expressed that M was physically unattractive, spoke in a boring, repetitive fashion, and said he or she had no intention of being 'keeping in touch,' and stated outright that he or she intended to receive knowledge and probably never return again, how likely would it be that he or she would reveive knowledge?
I don't see any way that you can read that initiator manual objectively and not be disturbed at how questions are NOT answered and how initiators are trained to simply throw questions back at aspirants. People learn pretty quickly, as they did when I received knowledge, that if you ask too many questions, you don't get knowledge.
Sorry Joe, I've seen too many people come and say the worst things about Maharaji, and eventually get Knowledge to believe YOUR spin. And it's by helping the person through the process of questioning that it happened. And believe me Joe when I say, I WAS an instructor, and there was NEVER any intention on my part to deceive or mislead or hide.
And furthermore Joe, I get real tired of the negative spinning you do of EVERYTHING Maharaji does or has ever done. You've got a bug up your ass in a big way. You said you enjoyed something. Christ, how could you be involved as long as you we're without enjoying it, unless you were a complete moron. Or is that how you explain your own involvement? And is that how you explain everyone now who still enjoys it? Sorry Joe, a moron I'm not.
And I RESENT you implying that as an instructor I knowingly or unknowingly deceived people. I approached the role with as much integrity as I could. Do you know why there are teachers, and books are not enough? Because when you read the book, it's really hard to get it. You weren't there Joe - you didn't get it!! So stop implying you know what and how the material was covered.
There, I feel better. Thanks for the input.
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Date: Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 23:31:09 (EST)
Poster: A premie
Email:
To: JW
Subject: Re: A little Confused
Message:
While I can still take advantage of my new status, I have to ask;
Why do people on this list respond to some of the intentionally provocative posts by premies?
It just seems like they are deliberately baiting and not seeking any real input, so why answer?
If it's for entertainment value, or for that matter, whatever the reason, that's cool, I just really wanted to know. Just curious I guess.
What are you afraid of Selena? The mere presence of this site is provocation to some. Provocation is something you have to deal with the minute you choose to open your mouth and attempt to utter something intelligent (don't get me wrong, I'm not saying this site is intelligent).
But you're right, I for one am not seeking 'real input' from you. You seem to be the one who's 'a little confused' and needy of input from the support group. Be careful though that you don't filter out some unexpected truth in your caution.
You give new meaning to the term 'spiritual ego.' Do you have any conception how you come across? Maybe you could try a little empathy and humility as to what someone else might be feeling and in expressing your superior understanding of what devotion and truth are. It might be easier for people to listen to what you have to say. Just a suggestion.
As for this site being a provocation, don't you think it's interesting that Maharaji banned the only site where premies might be able to post without 'provocation?' And no one is forcing you to be here, you know.
Whether Selena needs support or not, I can't say. She seems to be doing extremely well on her own. When I left the Maharaji cult I needed support too. I wish there had been something around like this site.
Sorry, can you explain the last sentence of your post. It's incomprehensible.
Sorry JW, I did get a little filled with myself didn't I.
As for my 'superior knowledge...', just calling it as I see it. Sorry if it comes off as being arrogant. I just get a little impatient with the pseudo-support group flavour of this site.
Last sentence means, if all you want to see are people who believe the same thing as you do, then where is the openess to other points of view.
And yeah I could not come here but it's intersting conversation (sometimes). Besides when I get filled with myself, it's good to have a place to download?
BTW, do you always take yourself so seriously?
Thanks, premie. I try not to take myself too seriously, and usually I don't.
As you can see, I tend to react when I feel spiritual condescension from a premie, because so much of that was laid on me in 10 years in the ashram. And trying to be a good devotee, I took most of it without question. I'm a little more sensitive to it than I should be, even after all these years. I've hardly thought about my years as a premie for a good 10 years until this site came along a few months ago. It's been a really good, cleansing experience for me. And now with a lot of time passed, I think I can express how I feel about it all a lot better than I could in the years after I left.
And as you can also probably tell, Maharaji and devotion to him were absolutely everything to me for a long, long time. Discovering the lie is REALLY hard to accept and face. At least it was a lie for me. I can't speak for anyone else.
And I have been much happier since I left all that than I ever was participating in it. But because it was so central to me, I can't be entirely detached, although for the most part I am. And so, when someone says that I never really understood what devotion was, it really pushes some buttons, because, besides being not true, it's a pretty arrogant thing to say to someone who gave M everything.
Joe, with all due respect. If it ends, was it real devotion?
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Date: Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 23:35:15 (EST)
Poster: A premie
Email:
To: Selena
Subject: Re: Not as Confused Now (Re: A little Confused)
Message:
I'm sorry you hurt. Your hurt doesn't however make Maharaji fake. There is always another side to be considered.
Good luck.
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Date: Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 23:45:29 (EST)
Poster: VP
Email:
To: Selena
Subject: Re: Not as Confused Now (Re: A little Confused)
Message:
This thread reinforces my desire to not respond to the stuff from premies that I consider non productive, and, dare I say it? Negative.
I am indeed confused and in need of support. That's why I started posting here! I have absolutely no problem admitting that. It took me a long to time even feel remotely ok after my visit to the divine lotus feet of M at Long Beach. This site has helped tremendously.
Another thing that helped, I will post now, it may help those of you who are here for the reasons the site is here:
Someone who has been helping me exit, said ' I am not impressed by displays of religiousity'
I asked her to explain and she talked about her Catholic mother who always had the rosary out every morning and night, who attended all the rituals, etc.. who constantly talked about God's grace and faith and meanwhile abused her, both physically and emotionally.
This made her see, all the verbage and rituals don't mean shit. It's peoples actions that show where they really are coming from.
I think the postings in this thread emphasize what she was saying. The kindness and support that I asked for I received from the ex premies. The other postings don't mean anything to me, except for a fleeting reminder of all the hurt and betrayal I have only recently left behind.
Selena,
You are going through a rough time now. Let it roll off of you like water off of a duck. If someone takes issue with the fact that we are supporting one another as human beings, who cares? The important thing is that we support each other as human beings.
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Date: Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 23:48:14 (EST)
Poster: VP
Email:
To: A premie
Subject: A little bit backwards (Re: A little Confused)
Message:
I'm sorry you hurt. Your hurt doesn't however make Maharaji fake. There is always another side to be considered.
Good luck.
Dear premie, You have got it all wrong. Maharaji being fake made her hurt. In truth, VP
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Date: Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 23:50:45 (EST)
Poster: Katie
Email: petkat@mail.trib.net
To: Selena
Subject: Re: Not as Confused Now (Re: A little Confused)
Message:
Dear Selena,
Despite what a.p. said above about the "pseudo support group", I do think that one of the major purposes of this forum is to be a support group for ex-, exiting, or unhappy premies. (It's also a place where aspirants can hear other opinions about Maharaji's organization besides the official one!)
I really don't care very much about Maharaji, and if some people are happy following him, then good for them. I know, however, that there are people who are or were unhappy following Maharaji (including me), and it's important to me that this site is here for us.
I have a premie friend who committed suicide because he was unhappy. I found this out after not hearing or thinking about Maharaji for twenty years. I'm not saying that Maharaji caused him to commit suicide - I just wish he would have felt that there was another way out of Maharaji's organization besides death. I think this site would have helped him, and that's the main reason that I post on here. (Also, I like most of the people on the site, and sometimes it's a lot of fun.)
By the way, your postings have been great, and I am sure that you've helped people (there are a LOT of invisible readers of this site.)
Take care,
Katie
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Date: Fri, Feb 13, 1998 at 00:05:21 (EST)
Poster: Selena
Email:
To: Katie
Subject: Re: Not as Confused Now (Re: A little Confused)
Message:
Dear Selena,
Despite what a.p. said above about the 'pseudo support group', I do think that one of the major purposes of this forum is to be a support group for ex-, exiting, or unhappy premies. (It's also a place where aspirants can hear other opinions about Maharaji's organization besides the official one!)
I really don't care very much about Maharaji, and if some people are happy following him, then good for them. I know, however, that there are people who are or were unhappy following Maharaji (including me), and it's important to me that this site is here for us.
I have a premie friend who committed suicide because he was unhappy. I found this out after not hearing or thinking about Maharaji for twenty years. I'm not saying that Maharaji caused him to commit suicide - I just wish he would have felt that there was another way out of Maharaji's organization besides death. I think this site would have helped him, and that's the main reason that I post on here. (Also, I like most of the people on the site, and sometimes it's a lot of fun.)
By the way, your postings have been great, and I am sure that you've helped people (there are a LOT of invisible readers of this site.)
Take care,
Katie
Katie
You are a very kind person. I am so sorry about your friend's suicide. I agree, M wasn't entirely responsible, but it's obvious he wasn't any help either. Of course I can already hear the agrument: it's up to the individual M can only show the way he cannot not make to go there, etc etc etc
It's so sad. How anyone can justify all of the contradictions is beyond me. That was one of the things I had to endure, a "pseudo" logical debate about how do I know how things would have turned out without my involvement with M, maybe they would have been worse.. blah blah. Hypothetical situations don't mean anything. We have our senses and our intelligence and the right to draw on our experience and learn from the past. Too bad you had to have that extremely painful lesson. I'm so sorry.
Keep on being the good decent person you are. I for one really appreciate it.
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Date: Fri, Feb 13, 1998 at 00:13:57 (EST)
Poster: JW
Email:
To: A premie
Subject: Re: A little Confused
Message:
Joe, with all due respect. If it ends, was it real devotion?
No, it wasn't. That's my point. But WHAT is your point? That some people got REAL devotion and some people got FAKE devotion. What does that say about Maharaji if that's true. He did a pretty shitty job.
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Date: Fri, Feb 13, 1998 at 00:29:13 (EST)
Poster: JW
Email:
To: A premie
Subject: Re: A little Confused
Message:
The manual is posted on the ex-premie site, oh dear premie. Why don't you read it? And if you don't agree with it, say so.
I have no idea if YOU were deceptive about anything and sorry, you can attack straw men if you want to, but I don't know you and have no idea what you said to anyone and never accused you of being deceptive..
But you didn't answer my question either, did you or anyone else tell interested people about darshan at an introductory program? Or was that, shall we say, saved for a bit later? Non-deceptively, of couse.
I'll ignore your "moron" and "bug up my ass" comments because you're obviously upset and not thinking clearly. Maybe I was a moron, I certainly felt like one after I left and realized how ripped off I was. But then I DID leave. What does that say about people who didn't?
I didn't make up any of the stuff I say about M. I just tell stuff I heard an saw. Whether that comes accross as "negative" (the ultimate sin in the premie world) is in the eye of the receiver of that sort of information. BTW-- you can tell us all the positive stuff you want to balance anyting that is said here. You have free speech. Something I don't think M is a big fan of.
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Date: Fri, Feb 13, 1998 at 00:50:45 (EST)
Poster: Katie
Email:
To: Selena
Subject: Re: Not as Confused Now (Re: A little Confused)
Message:
Thanks for your support and kind words, Selena. I feel that my friend is all right now, but I am sorry that his life was so unhappy. At least he's beyond the pain now.
And as far as "what would have happened without Maharaji" - I know that I was in a really bad place when I got knowledge, and the premies in D.C. helped me a lot by providing a sort of substitute family when I didn't have one. I'll always be thankful to them for that. But most people weren't in the kind of trouble that I was in, so I think hypothetical statements like that are, as you say, meaningless.
Thanks again,
Katie
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Date: Fri, Feb 13, 1998 at 00:59:13 (EST)
Poster: JW
Email: joger02@aol.com
To: JW
Subject: Re: A little Confused
Message:
And let me explain one other thing. No, I don't think I was a moron for remaining a premie for so long. Although I felt like a moron after I left for staying as long as I did.
No, I stayed because I was young, idealistic, sincere, desirous to know the truth, trusting in Guru Maharaj Ji and what he told me to do, including that I should NOT listen to my own mind, NOT move out of the ashram, NOT EVER doubt him or the value of knowledge, .... so, in the environment, I stayed a long time, because I had complete faith in Maharaji and tried to surrender to him 100%. THAT's why I stayed and THAT is the thing the Maharaji has never taken any responsibility whatsoever for.
And I don't think current premies are morons either. I can't say why they stay. But then, almost all the people I was at all close to as a premie have left and feel much the way I do, and therefore I rarely get a chance to talk to them.
You can e-mail me if you would like further explanation. Perhaps I know you. You sound very much like someone who used to post here, but hasn't for some time.
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Date: Fri, Feb 13, 1998 at 01:12:35 (EST)
Poster: Scott T.
Email:
To: JW
Subject: Re: A little Confused
Message:
While I can still take advantage of my new status, I have to ask;
Why do people on this list respond to some of the intentionally provocative posts by premies?
It just seems like they are deliberately baiting and not seeking any real input, so why answer?
If it's for entertainment value, or for that matter, whatever the reason, that's cool, I just really wanted to know. Just curious I guess.
I have thought the same thing, Selena. Sometimes I do ignore the particularly ignorant posts. But it's always in the back of my head that people who are just considering getting involved with M are also reading this site. I guess sometimes I feel like I want to respond just to give the other side of the story, so those people are in a better position to make up their own minds. They certainly aren't able to talk about their doubts in one of those aspirant programs!
WHAT!!! You couldn't be farther from the truth. The aspirant program is *designed* for people to talk out their doubts. You know as well as I do that that has *always* been the standing invitation. 'Come, listen ask your questions, and when you are ready to receive K, you can receive it.' The ready bit, by the way, is having satisfied your doubts and concerns through the questioning process.
Geez, if you're going to stand up and 'attempt to utter something intelligent' please be fair and base your 'facts' in reality.
Sorry premie but what you are saying is spin,spin,spin. Maybe you could get a job with the Clinton administration.
If an aspirant continually questioned M's fabulous wealth, doubted whether he is worthy of devotion, expressed that M was physically unattractive, spoke in a boring, repetitive fashion, and said he or she had no intention of being 'keeping in touch,' and stated outright that he or she intended to receive knowledge and probably never return again, how likely would it be that he or she would reveive knowledge?
I don't see any way that you can read that initiator manual objectively and not be disturbed at how questions are NOT answered and how initiators are trained to simply throw questions back at aspirants. People learn pretty quickly, as they did when I received knowledge, that if you ask too many questions, you don't get knowledge.
JW:
I recall one of the mahatmas at Millennium in one of those very intens question and answer periods. A little 8 year old girl shouted out, at the top of her voice: "I AM!" To which the mahatma replied: "YOU ARE?"
I though it was a funny exchange. It may have been Charanand. Some of those old-line mahatmas were pretty clever.
-Scott
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Date: Fri, Feb 13, 1998 at 01:24:16 (EST)
Poster: Scott T.
Email:
To: A premie
Subject: Re: A little Confused
Message:
While I can still take advantage of my new status, I have to ask;
Why do people on this list respond to some of the intentionally provocative posts by premies?
It just seems like they are deliberately baiting and not seeking any real input, so why answer?
If it's for entertainment value, or for that matter, whatever the reason, that's cool, I just really wanted to know. Just curious I guess.
I have thought the same thing, Selena. Sometimes I do ignore the particularly ignorant posts. But it's always in the back of my head that people who are just considering getting involved with M are also reading this site. I guess sometimes I feel like I want to respond just to give the other side of the story, so those people are in a better position to make up their own minds. They certainly aren't able to talk about their doubts in one of those aspirant programs!
WHAT!!! You couldn't be farther from the truth. The aspirant program is *designed* for people to talk out their doubts. You know as well as I do that that has *always* been the standing invitation. 'Come, listen ask your questions, and when you are ready to receive K, you can receive it.' The ready bit, by the way, is having satisfied your doubts and concerns through the questioning process.
Geez, if you're going to stand up and 'attempt to utter something intelligent' please be fair and base your 'facts' in reality.
Sorry premie but what you are saying is spin,spin,spin. Maybe you could get a job with the Clinton administration.
If an aspirant continually questioned M's fabulous wealth, doubted whether he is worthy of devotion, expressed that M was physically unattractive, spoke in a boring, repetitive fashion, and said he or she had no intention of being 'keeping in touch,' and stated outright that he or she intended to receive knowledge and probably never return again, how likely would it be that he or she would reveive knowledge?
I don't see any way that you can read that initiator manual objectively and not be disturbed at how questions are NOT answered and how initiators are trained to simply throw questions back at aspirants. People learn pretty quickly, as they did when I received knowledge, that if you ask too many questions, you don't get knowledge.
Sorry Joe, I've seen too many people come and say the worst things about Maharaji, and eventually get Knowledge to believe YOUR spin. And it's by helping the person through the process of questioning that it happened. And believe me Joe when I say, I WAS an instructor, and there was NEVER any intention on my part to deceive or mislead or hide.
And furthermore Joe, I get real tired of the negative spinning you do of EVERYTHING Maharaji does or has ever done. You've got a bug up your ass in a big way. You said you enjoyed something. Christ, how could you be involved as long as you we're without enjoying it, unless you were a complete moron. Or is that how you explain your own involvement? And is that how you explain everyone now who still enjoys it? Sorry Joe, a moron I'm not.
And I RESENT you implying that as an instructor I knowingly or unknowingly deceived people. I approached the role with as much integrity as I could. Do you know why there are teachers, and books are not enough? Because when you read the book, it's really hard to get it. You weren't there Joe - you didn't get it!! So stop implying you know what and how the material was covered.
There, I feel better. Thanks for the input.
A premie:
I have a little project and thought in view of your comments that you might help me with it. I am not resentful of M. I don't feel I was ripped off and I'm not angry. I just have standards, and I'm trying to figure out if there is ANY reason to consider M good. I saw him bonk David Smith in the nose with a two-by-four. I guess that was good. But really, could you relate a single noble act that was ever committed by M, at any time or in any place? Don't get me wrong. I don't think the guy is particularly evil. He's just not good.
-Scott
PS: He may have unrealized potential... in either direction.
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Date: Fri, Feb 13, 1998 at 01:50:43 (EST)
Poster: JW
Email:
To: Scott T.
Subject: Re: A little Confused
Message:
JW:
I recall one of the mahatmas at Millennium in one of those very intens question and answer periods. A little 8 year old girl shouted out, at the top of her voice: 'I AM!' To which the mahatma replied: 'YOU ARE?'
I though it was a funny exchange. It may have been Charanand. Some of those old-line mahatmas were pretty clever.
-Scott
Thanks, Scott. As I mentioned above, at least in those days, it was pretty much out front what M was about. Anyone who was an aspirant for any period of time knew about darshan, devotion, dedication and worshipping of M. Now, that appears to be hidden at least in the initial stages of those oh-so-controlled aspirant programs.
By the way Scott -- did you live in the ashram? How long were you a premie. When you say you have no resentment towards M, is that because being a premie didn't cost you very much, such that by believing in him it wasn't destructive to your, career, family, finances, personal freedom , relationships, sexuality, etc,?
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Date: Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 20:15:36 (EST)
Poster: GMJ Appreciation Soc.
Email:
To: Everyone
Subject: Into 2 K with GMJ
Message:
With the next Millenium almost here this organisation would recommend all ex premies get it on..stop moaning and have a good time strong in the love that surrounds us
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Date: Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 20:29:20 (EST)
Poster: JW
Email:
To: GMJ Appreciation Soc.
Subject: Re: Into 2 K with GMJ
Message:
With the next Millenium almost here this organisation would recommend all ex premies get it on..stop moaning and have a good time strong in the love that surrounds us
I guess you haven't noticed that the ex-premies are having quite a great time on this site, and it's not even the Millennium yet. Don't know what you mean by "get it on," but if it's what I think it is, I do that quite often, because I'm strong in the love that surrounds me. It was only when I was a premie being celibate for god incarnate that I wasn't strong in that love that surrounded me. Damn it!
BTW -- "Millennium" is spelled with 2 Ns, surely you remember that from 1973 at the Houston Astrodome.
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Date: Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 20:30:55 (EST)
Poster: JW
Email:
To: JW
Subject: Re: Into 2 K with GMJ
Message:
Oh, I forgot. If you strong in that love that surrounds us, sometimes you just can't stop moaning. It just can't be helped.
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Date: Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 20:52:28 (EST)
Poster: bftb the daydreamer
Email: Loopy@babbling
To: GMJ Appreciation Soc.
Subject: Re: Into 2 K with GMJ
Message:
....and so I was eating a sandwich the other day and I started having this really weird thought like 'what if we've all done this before like for ages and lifetimes and we've been with M and recieved K and stopped K and came back to K and stopped again and like we're just playing the same game over and over and over....and then I snap out of it,realize that I'm just having one of those brain farts,and I take another bite of my sandwich.
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Date: Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 21:42:11 (EST)
Poster: GMJ Appreciation Soc
Email:
To: bftb the daydreamer
Subject: Re: Into 2 K with GMJ
Message:
What was in your sandwich?
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Date: Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 21:47:34 (EST)
Poster: bftb
Email: Pretentious@justkidding
To: bftb the daydreamer
Subject: Re: Into 2 K with GMJ
Message:
eternity,bliss,and alfalfa sprouts
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Date: Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 22:00:53 (EST)
Poster: Sir David
Email: djulian@cix.compulink.co.uk
To: bftb the daydreamer
Subject: Re: Into 2 K with GMJ
Message:
Very interesting, but not so. It seems it doesn't work like that. How does it work?
Well God, whose offspring we are wants us to grow and one day, be like Him. When we are adults spiritually then we'll understand Him all the better. But now, we're hardly out of nappies. He's hardly going to lay a heavy trip like this on us.
The fact is, us ex-premies are no different to the rest of the human population. No more advanced or retarded. M made us think we were different or special, but in the wrong way. My few encounters with God have shown me that everyone on the planet is special. If there was a definite path to follow, then God wouldn't make it available to a select few.
Read my post below; my 84 year old Dad is far more spiritually realised than Maharaji.
Don't believe the Hindu teachings and all the chakra stuff. Their nirvana is a myth. Spiritual growth is natural and can't be forced. You can't force a baby to grow up can you. You know my posts seem to kill the threads these days. I think I'm an ex-ex-premie. Perhaps I'm too far out even for ex-premies!
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Date: Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 22:06:25 (EST)
Poster: VP
Email:
To: GMJ Appreciation Soc.
Subject: Catchy little rhyme there (Re: Into 2 K with GMJ)
Message:
I guess you were a cheerleader in high school. Here's another one for you-
Rah Rah Rhee! You're a devotee
Rah Rah Rack! GMJ's a hack
Gotta go get it on now VP
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Date: Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 22:11:00 (EST)
Poster: A premie
Email:
To: Sir David
Subject: Re: Into 2 K with GMJ
Message:
Very interesting, but not so. It seems it doesn't work like that. How does it work?
Well God, whose offspring we are wants us to grow and one day, be like Him. When we are adults spiritually then we'll understand Him all the better. But now, we're hardly out of nappies. He's hardly going to lay a heavy trip like this on us.
The fact is, us ex-premies are no different to the rest of the human population. No more advanced or retarded. M made us think we were different or special, but in the wrong way. My few encounters with God have shown me that everyone on the planet is special. If there was a definite path to follow, then God wouldn't make it available to a select few.
Read my post below; my 84 year old Dad is far more spiritually realised than Maharaji.
Don't believe the Hindu teachings and all the chakra stuff. Their nirvana is a myth. Spiritual growth is natural and can't be forced. You can't force a baby to grow up can you. You know my posts seem to kill the threads these days. I think I'm an ex-ex-premie. Perhaps I'm too far out even for ex-premies!
Dave, you have to be spiritually realized before you can recognize it in others. Your admission to being in nappies kinda disqualifies you from passing judgement on your Grandfather's level of enlightenment vis a vis Maharaji's. Wouldn't you say?
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Date: Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 23:11:05 (EST)
Poster: Sir David
Email: djulian@cix.compulink.co.uk
To: A premie
Subject: Re: Into 2 K with GMJ
Message:
He's my Dad I was talking about. I'm 45 and my Grandad died years ago.
I meant that we were ALL only just out of nappies, spiritually speaking. I could be wrong of course. You could be spiritually realised although I should imagine you're no different to the rest of us.
I am quite surprised that you believe that there is such a thing as being spiritually realised. You know why? Because no matter how "realised" you may think a person is, he/she is still a long way behind God. I'd say God was spiritually realised. In comparison, we're just infants.
Perhaps you hold to the believe that practising meditation will make you spiritually realised. If you believe that then I'd quote someone else who said that meditation is just scratching the surface.
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Date: Fri, Feb 13, 1998 at 00:19:30 (EST)
Poster: GMJ Apreciation Soc.
Email:
To: VP
Subject: Re: Catchy little rhyme there (Re: Into 2 K with GMJ)
Message:
Wrong continent for cheerleading.....so you guess wrong..
Same as you did with Maharaji
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Date: Fri, Feb 13, 1998 at 02:31:53 (EST)
Poster: Mickey the Pharisee
Email: mgdbach@ziplink.net
To: JW
Subject: Re: Into 2 K with GMJ
Message:
With the next Millenium almost here this organisation would recommend all ex premies get it on..stop moaning and have a good time strong in the love that surrounds us
I guess you haven't noticed that the ex-premies are having quite a great time on this site, and it's not even the Millennium yet. Don't know what you mean by 'get it on,' but if it's what I think it is, I do that quite often, because I'm strong in the love that surrounds me. It was only when I was a premie being celibate for god incarnate that I wasn't strong in that love that surrounded me. Damn it!
BTW -- 'Millennium' is spelled with 2 Ns, surely you remember that from 1973 at the Houston Astrodome.
You know, folks, the Millennium is actually a Christian concept. It is the period of a thousand years of peace which occur after Christ's return. The Millennium is followed by the Final Judgement. So, even after 2001, it won't be the Millennium until the Second Coming.
Your Ex-Premie Theologian,
Michael
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Date: Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 20:05:20 (EST)
Poster: Premie
Email:
To: Everyone
Subject: some Premies cant fake it
Message:
Many Premies seem to be here,is the positive on the up.Do you know what time it is? Devotion is the new rock and roll
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Date: Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 20:37:11 (EST)
Poster: Diver Dan
Email: crothfam@idirect.com
To: Premie
Subject: Re: some Premies cant fake it
Message:
Many Premies seem to be here,is the positive on the up.Do you know what time it is? Devotion is the new rock and roll
" I know it"s only rock'n roll,but I like it ,I like it.Yes I doo" Also its been mentioned in several threads this eve about impersonations ,anominity, decete ,cowardness etc.. where is the courage of our convictions for both Premies and "EX" devotees alike ! Maybe I'm missing something are there death threats or something go 'n around? I don't get it ! If you believe in you convictions then what's the fear? May be I'm the one who's fallen off my barogoon one (two) many times!?!?!?
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Date: Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 20:37:25 (EST)
Poster: Diver Dan
Email: crothfam@idirect.com
To: Premie
Subject: Re: some Premies cant fake it
Message:
Many Premies seem to be here,is the positive on the up.Do you know what time it is? Devotion is the new rock and roll
" I know it"s only rock'n roll,but I like it ,I like it.Yes I doo" Also its been mentioned in several threads this eve about impersonations ,anominity, decete ,cowardness etc.. where is the courage of our convictions for both Premies and "EX" devotees alike ! Maybe I'm missing something are there death threats or something go 'n around? I don't get it ! If you believe in you convictions then what's the fear? May be I'm the one who's fallen off my barogoon one (two) many times!?!?!?
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Date: Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 20:52:20 (EST)
Poster: Huh?
Email:
To: Premie
Subject: Re: some Premies cant fake it
Message:
Many Premies seem to be here,is the positive on the up.Do you know what time it is? Devotion is the new rock and roll
I don't get it????
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Date: Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 21:33:04 (EST)
Poster: Katie
Email:
To: Diver Dan
Subject: Anonymity and impersonations (Re: some Premies cant fake it)
Message:
Many Premies seem to be here,is the positive on the up.Do you know what time it is? Devotion is the new rock and roll
' I know it's only rock'n roll,but I like it ,I like it.Yes I doo' Also its been mentioned in several threads this eve about impersonations ,anominity, decete ,cowardness etc.. where is the courage of our convictions for both Premies and 'EX' devotees alike ! Maybe I'm missing something are there death threats or something go 'n around? I don't get it ! If you believe in you convictions then what's the fear? May be I'm the one who's fallen off my barogoon one (two) many times!?!?!?
Dear Dan - I appreciate your post and I hope people listen to it. I know that some people (both premies and ex-premie) want and need to stay anonymous because of personal reasons (friends and family, usually), but I, for one, really would appreciate it if people who need to remain anonymous would pick a pseudonym and stick to it. I also think that some people post anonymously because they want to say things that they don't have the courage to say under their own name, or even under a well known pseudonym. Also, posting under other people's names is absolutely bizzare and cowardly behavior, and I wish people who did that could be banned from the forum.
By the way, there have been NO death threats on here. A certain hot-blooded Croatian guy who you may know did make a few threats towards one or two of the ex-premies a while ago, but then indicated that he didn't plan to carry them out...
P.S. I don't have any old M stuff or I would gladly send it to you. We move a lot, and you can't keep that stuff forever. Good luck in finding some.
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Date: Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 18:25:41 (EST)
Poster: John Cavad
Email:
To: Everyone
Subject: Some Premies Can't Take It
Message:
Dear Certain Premie(s),
1. Stop using my name. You were born with your own name, I'm sure. Why not try using it.
2. I realize that ex-premies' words may be insulting to you. Afterall, this is not a pro-Maharaji forum. If you wish to respond, try a more adult approach - you'll be received with a bit more seriousness. Otherwise, just change the channel. You don't have to stay tuned into this site.
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Date: Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 19:03:15 (EST)
Poster: Rick
Email: rtaraday@hotmail.com
To: John Cavad
Subject: Re: Some Premies Can't Take It
Message:
Dear Certain Premie(s),
1. Stop using my name. You were born with your own name, I'm sure. Why not try using it.
2. I realize that ex-premies' words may be insulting to you. Afterall, this is not a pro-Maharaji forum. If you wish to respond, try a more adult approach - you'll be received with a bit more seriousness. Otherwise, just change the channel. You don't have to stay tuned into this site.
NOTE TO WEBMASTER: Please delete those several messages before archiving. Thanks.
The alias sniping brings to mind one of the major foibles of maharajism: What do you do with those pesky emotions? Anger, sadness, fear... real monkey wrenches in the works when you're trying to reach "that" perfection. My personal favorite was trying to ignore those feelings, and in time they'd settle down. Then I could convince myself that the knowledge was working. But I didn't get rid of those feelings as I thought; they just hybernated for a while and then came back with a vengeance. In the end, it was those feelings that convinced me that knowledge wasn't working like it was supposed to. The poor sucker who's impersonating you must be in a bit of a dilemna. He's got to vent somehow...
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Date: Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 12:54:53 (EST)
Poster: Joy
Email: Bluebirdd@aol.com
To: Everyone
Subject: Recommended Reading List
Message:
Following is a list of books I've compiled to date for the Breaking Free section. I want to keep the list somewhat brief and relevant to what our group was about; then as people discover and read excellent books we can add them one by one. There is a much longer, extensive cult reading list further into the Cult Awareness section of that part of the site, but I'd like to put a short, relevant, recommended reading list right at the top. Also, would like to include a short review of each book. Could anyone who's read any of these books recently do a short review, or edit the first two reviews, also, if you'd like. (John Cavad??) Thanks.
The Guru Papers: Masks of Authoritarian Power
Authors: Joel Kramer,Diana Alstad
Paperback, 385 pages
Published by North Atlantic Books
Publication date: May 1, 1993 ‹ ISBN: 1883319005
Review: I recently read this book in its entirety. It has fully answered hundreds of my questions, and helped me understand a myriad of topics surrounding GMJ and his mission. It brought clarity and a fine understanding to what 'surrender' is really all about.
I also recommend this book to anyone who hasn't read it yet, ex-premies, premies, and especially aspirants. You can order it from any bookstore or order it online from Barnes & Noble or Amazon.
______________
Cults: Faith, Healing & Coercion
Author: Marc Galanter
Reprint Edition; Paperback; Published by Oxford Univ Pr (Trade);
Publication date: October 1, 1990 ‹ ISBN: 0195066588
Review: I have read about 20 pages of this book in the book store. It's an excellent book to recommend. It's non-judgemental approach is a powerful way to approach the subject, but quite different in context from The Guru Papers. It addresses DLM as well as other cults. There's some fascinating factual information in this book about premies.
______________
Snapping : America's Epidemic of Sudden Personality Change
Flo Conway and Jim Siegelman
2nd ed. New York : Stillpoint Press, c1995. 401 p.
ISBN: 0964765004 (pbk.)
______________
Cults In Our Midst
Author: Margaret Thaler Singer with Janja Lalich
1st ed. San Francisco: Jossey-Bass Publishers, c1995. 381 p.
ISBN: 0787900516
ISBN: 0787902667 (pbk.)
______________
Spiritual Vampires : The Use and Misuse of Spiritual Power
Author: Marty Raphael
1st ed. Santa Fe, N.M. : Message Co., c1996. 255 p.
ISBN: 1572820063
______________
Feet of Clay : Saints, Sinners, and Madmen : A Study of Gurus
Author: Anthony Storr
New York : Free Press Paperbacks, 1997.
ISBN: 0684834952 (pbk. : alk. paper)
New York : Free Press, c1996.- 253 p.
ISBN: 0684828189
______________
Magnificent Addiction
Author: Philip R. Kavanaugh
1st ed. Lower Lake, CA : Aslan Pub., c1992. 237 p.
ISBN: 0944031366
Back To Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 15:40:30 (EST)
Poster: Mili
Email: mili@cheerful.com
To: Joy
Subject: Re: Recommended Reading List
Message:
You can read all of these books, and then some, but I don't think that by doing you will understand what 'surrender' is all about.
Surrender is about feeling. Whenever you want to fully experience something, you have to surrender to it.
It means letting go.
Back To Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 16:33:05 (EST)
Poster: CD
Email:
To: Joy
Subject: Re: Recommended Reading List
Message:
If you don't just want to be an anti-cult expert but want to learn something positive and interesting:
CD's Book List - Travelers Tales, Infinity, Pythagoras and a Positive Attitude
For those interested in going for it for success in the physical world, check out "Think and Grow Rich".
A very interesting book written by an interesting character many many years ago - the title is misleading and does not do the book justice.
CD
Back To Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 21:30:18 (EST)
Poster: Two thumbs up
Email: VP
To: CD
Subject: CD's list (Re: Recommended Reading List)
Message:
CD- I loved your book list. I have read many books on it and enjoyed all of them. I agree with you on this title. It's more about having a positive and winning attitude. VP
Back To Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 22:07:30 (EST)
Poster: A premie
Email:
To: Joy
Subject: Re: Recommended Reading List
Message:
Following is a list of books I've compiled to date for the Breaking Free section. I want to keep the list somewhat brief and relevant to what our group was about; then as people discover and read excellent books we can add them one by one. There is a much longer, extensive cult reading list further into the Cult Awareness section of that part of the site, but I'd like to put a short, relevant, recommended reading list right at the top. Also, would like to include a short review of each book. Could anyone who's read any of these books recently do a short review, or edit the first two reviews, also, if you'd like. (John Cavad??) Thanks.
The Guru Papers: Masks of Authoritarian Power
Authors: Joel Kramer,Diana Alstad
Paperback, 385 pages
Published by North Atlantic Books
Publication date: May 1, 1993 ‹ ISBN: 1883319005
Review: I recently read this book in its entirety. It has fully answered hundreds of my questions, and helped me understand a myriad of topics surrounding GMJ and his mission. It brought clarity and a fine understanding to what 'surrender' is really all about.
I also recommend this book to anyone who hasn't read it yet, ex-premies, premies, and especially aspirants. You can order it from any bookstore or order it online from Barnes & Noble or Amazon.
______________
Cults: Faith, Healing & Coercion
Author: Marc Galanter
Reprint Edition; Paperback; Published by Oxford Univ Pr (Trade);
Publication date: October 1, 1990 ‹ ISBN: 0195066588
Review: I have read about 20 pages of this book in the book store. It's an excellent book to recommend. It's non-judgemental approach is a powerful way to approach the subject, but quite different in context from The Guru Papers. It addresses DLM as well as other cults. There's some fascinating factual information in this book about premies.
______________
Snapping : America's Epidemic of Sudden Personality Change
Flo Conway and Jim Siegelman
2nd ed. New York : Stillpoint Press, c1995. 401 p.
ISBN: 0964765004 (pbk.)
______________
Cults In Our Midst
Author: Margaret Thaler Singer with Janja Lalich
1st ed. San Francisco: Jossey-Bass Publishers, c1995. 381 p.
ISBN: 0787900516
ISBN: 0787902667 (pbk.)
______________
Spiritual Vampires : The Use and Misuse of Spiritual Power
Author: Marty Raphael
1st ed. Santa Fe, N.M. : Message Co., c1996. 255 p.
ISBN: 1572820063
______________
Feet of Clay : Saints, Sinners, and Madmen : A Study of Gurus
Author: Anthony Storr
New York : Free Press Paperbacks, 1997.
ISBN: 0684834952 (pbk. : alk. paper)
New York : Free Press, c1996.- 253 p.
ISBN: 0684828189
______________
Magnificent Addiction
Author: Philip R. Kavanaugh
1st ed. Lower Lake, CA : Aslan Pub., c1992. 237 p.
ISBN: 0944031366
Joy, are you going to replace the ideas you're chucking about Knowledge for the theories put forward in your books? If you don't start thinking for yourself you're just going to build another house of cards? And in the end, you will only increase your level of paranoia.
Back To Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 22:52:45 (EST)
Poster: CD
Email:
To: Two thumbs up
Subject: Re: CD's list (Re: Recommended Reading List)
Message:
VP,
I wrote a charming detailed reply to your kind words but because I forgot to put my name in From: all was lost.
The forum has been saved from my insight - g.
Cheers to a positive future,
CD
Back To Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 23:02:43 (EST)
Poster: VP
Email:
To: CD
Subject: Re: CD's list (Re: Recommended Reading List)
Message:
VP,
I wrote a charming detailed reply to your kind words but because I forgot to put my name in From: all was lost.
The forum has been saved from my insight - g.
Cheers to a positive future,
CD
CD, I hate it when that happens.
Someone told me that you have a picture of yourself on your web site, but I couldn't find it. Is this true? I have a really nice Gibson accoustical guitar. It has a beautiful sound...especially when someone else is playing. Thanks-VP
Back To Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 23:23:03 (EST)
Poster: Katie
Email: petkat@mail.trib.net
To: Chris and VP
Subject: Re: CD's list (Re: Recommended Reading List)
Message:
VP,
I wrote a charming detailed reply to your kind words but because I forgot to put my name in From: all was lost.
The forum has been saved from my insight - g.
Cheers to a positive future,
CD
CD, I hate it when that happens.
Someone told me that you have a picture of yourself on your web site, but I couldn't find it. Is this true? I have a really nice Gibson accoustical guitar. It has a beautiful sound...especially when someone else is playing. Thanks-VP
To Chris and VP - I have found that if you don't put your name in when posting (and thus get that error message), you can use the back button on the browser to get back to your post. It LOOKS like it's gone, but it's not (Paradise is weird that way). Fill in your name and try posting it again - it works for me anyway!
Chris, how about putting the picture up on your site and linking us to it?
Regards from Katie
Back To Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Fri, Feb 13, 1998 at 00:00:18 (EST)
Poster: Joy
Email: Bluebirdd@aol.com
To: A premie
Subject: Re: Recommended Reading List
Message:
Following is a list of books I've compiled to date for the Breaking Free section. I want to keep the list somewhat brief and relevant to what our group was about; then as people discover and read excellent books we can add them one by one. There is a much longer, extensive cult reading list further into the Cult Awareness section of that part of the site, but I'd like to put a short, relevant, recommended reading list right at the top. Also, would like to include a short review of each book. Could anyone who's read any of these books recently do a short review, or edit the first two reviews, also, if you'd like. (John Cavad??) Thanks.
The Guru Papers: Masks of Authoritarian Power
Authors: Joel Kramer,Diana Alstad
Paperback, 385 pages
Published by North Atlantic Books
Publication date: May 1, 1993 Ð ISBN: 1883319005
Review: I recently read this book in its entirety. It has fully answered hundreds of my questions, and helped me understand a myriad of topics surrounding GMJ and his mission. It brought clarity and a fine understanding to what 'surrender' is really all about.
I also recommend this book to anyone who hasn't read it yet, ex-premies, premies, and especially aspirants. You can order it from any bookstore or order it online from Barnes & Noble or Amazon.
______________
Cults: Faith, Healing & Coercion
Author: Marc Galanter
Reprint Edition; Paperback; Published by Oxford Univ Pr (Trade);
Publication date: October 1, 1990 Ð ISBN: 0195066588
Review: I have read about 20 pages of this book in the book store. It's an excellent book to recommend. It's non-judgemental approach is a powerful way to approach the subject, but quite different in context from The Guru Papers. It addresses DLM as well as other cults. There's some fascinating factual information in this book about premies.
______________
Snapping : America's Epidemic of Sudden Personality Change
Flo Conway and Jim Siegelman
2nd ed. New York : Stillpoint Press, c1995. 401 p.
ISBN: 0964765004 (pbk.)
______________
Cults In Our Midst
Author: Margaret Thaler Singer with Janja Lalich
1st ed. San Francisco: Jossey-Bass Publishers, c1995. 381 p.
ISBN: 0787900516
ISBN: 0787902667 (pbk.)
______________
Spiritual Vampires : The Use and Misuse of Spiritual Power
Author: Marty Raphael
1st ed. Santa Fe, N.M. : Message Co., c1996. 255 p.
ISBN: 1572820063
______________
Feet of Clay : Saints, Sinners, and Madmen : A Study of Gurus
Author: Anthony Storr
New York : Free Press Paperbacks, 1997.
ISBN: 0684834952 (pbk. : alk. paper)
New York : Free Press, c1996.- 253 p.
ISBN: 0684828189
______________
Magnificent Addiction
Author: Philip R. Kavanaugh
1st ed. Lower Lake, CA : Aslan Pub., c1992. 237 p.
ISBN: 0944031366
Joy, are you going to replace the ideas you're chucking about Knowledge for the theories put forward in your books? If you don't start thinking for yourself you're just going to build another house of cards? And in the end, you will only increase your level of paranoia.
I am not trying to replace old ideas with new. I am merely trying to help people escape the hold of some of these confused ideas M implants to people in his cult. These books are written by professional psychologists and are not just a new set of ideas and dogma, but some tools to actually help people start thinking for themselves again.
And I don't understand why you think I'm paranoid. Because I'm composing this book list? I'm trying to help people, what's paranoid about that? Just because my ideas are different from yours and dare to criticize M's, you are the one being paranoid about their being put up there. And what is this "first" house of cards you refer to? My involvement with M? I would agree that was definitely a house of cards.
Back To Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Fri, Feb 13, 1998 at 00:01:38 (EST)
Poster: VP
Email:
To: CD
Subject: CD's picture (Re: Recommended Reading List)
Message:
CD,
Oops! I got you confused with Mili for a second. I think that Mili posted that he had a groovy new web site to check out with his picture in it. I was thinking that it was you who posted this. Sorry for the confusion. (I did see Mili's photo)
Back To Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 12:39:54 (EST)
Poster: John Cavad
Email: johncavad@yahoo.com
To: Everyone
Subject: GMJ's bond with a Premie
Message:
There were some previous comments about GMJ not knowing who 99.9% of the premies were. Allow me to add:
A premie's role can be filled by anyone who properly surrenders to GMJ.
"Since adulation from any one person eventually becomes boring, gurus don't need any specific disciple - they need lots of them. Gurus (like GMJ) do, however, give special attention to those with wealth and power; having celebrities in one's entourage increases their coffers, influence, and membership. What appears to be a strong personal bond between guru and disciple is ILLUSORY, as it depends solely upon the disciple acknowledging the guru's authority. Should that break, little remains. "
I hope you're all enjoying my own way of spreading the truth. If premies can come on this site and write "satsang", I see no problem with my writing a unique form of communication for premies known as "Logic."
Back To Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 16:36:46 (EST)
Poster: CD
Email:
To: John Cavad
Subject: Re: GMJ's bond with a Premie
Message:
> I see no problem with my writing a unique form of communication for premies known as 'Logic.'
Are you familiar with Godel's theorem?
CD
Back To Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 19:29:01 (EST)
Poster: Red Crow
Email:
To: John Cavad
Subject: Re: GMJ's bond with a Premie
Message:
There were some previous comments about GMJ not knowing who 99.9% of the premies were. Allow me to add:
A premie's role can be filled by anyone who properly surrenders to GMJ.
'Since adulation from any one person eventually becomes boring, gurus don't need any specific disciple - they need lots of them. Gurus (like GMJ) do, however, give special attention to those with wealth and power; having celebrities in one's entourage increases their coffers, influence, and membership. What appears to be a strong personal bond between guru and disciple is ILLUSORY, as it depends solely upon the disciple acknowledging the guru's authority. Should that break, little remains. '
I hope you're all enjoying my own way of spreading the truth. If premies can come on this site and write 'satsang', I see no problem with my writing a unique form of communication for premies known as 'Logic.'
It broke! - and little remained.
You hit the nail on its proverbial, John. Keep spreading the truth.
Back To Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 21:54:45 (EST)
Poster: A premie
Email:
To: Red Crow
Subject: Re: GMJ's bond with a Premie
Message:
There were some previous comments about GMJ not knowing who 99.9% of the premies were. Allow me to add:
A premie's role can be filled by anyone who properly surrenders to GMJ.
'Since adulation from any one person eventually becomes boring, gurus don't need any specific disciple - they need lots of them. Gurus (like GMJ) do, however, give special attention to those with wealth and power; having celebrities in one's entourage increases their coffers, influence, and membership. What appears to be a strong personal bond between guru and disciple is ILLUSORY, as it depends solely upon the disciple acknowledging the guru's authority. Should that break, little remains. '
I hope you're all enjoying my own way of spreading the truth. If premies can come on this site and write 'satsang', I see no problem with my writing a unique form of communication for premies known as 'Logic.'
It broke! - and little remained.
You hit the nail on its proverbial, John. Keep spreading the truth.
It broke, so what does that mean? It means the bond wasn't strong enough to bear the weight. The bond is your baby not his.
Back To Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 12:25:20 (EST)
Poster: John Cavad
Email:
To: Everyone
Subject: Results of Surrender
Message:
When we came to GMJ we had what is known as a conversion experience. A conversion experience brings tremendous release and intense emotion, as it involves letting go of one's old identity and taking on a new one.
"Surrendering to any leader or ideology can bring powerful feelings and an instant new identity. The feeling of renewal often includes believing that one has wiped one's moral slate clean. The power of conversion experiences lies in the psychological shift from confusion to certainty. The new beliefs become essential to hold and defend lest all the good feelings that come from certanty vanish. The price paid for these good feelings is succumbing to mind control. Being reborn in this way eventually closes people to everything that does not conform to their new, ridgidly held worldview. Although one's individual (premie's) boundaries are open to the group (EV/DLM), the group's boundaries are closed to outsiders. Ultimately one only accepts and feels comfortable with those either within the system or open to proselytization. "
Sound familiar?
Back To Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 15:01:54 (EST)
Poster: me
Email:
To: John Cavad
Subject: Re: Results of Surrender
Message:
When we came to GMJ we had what is known as a conversion experience. A conversion experience brings tremendous release and intense emotion, as it involves letting go of one's old identity and taking on a new one.
'Surrendering to any leader or ideology can bring powerful feelings and an instant new identity. The feeling of renewal often includes believing that one has wiped one's moral slate clean. The power of conversion experiences lies in the psychological shift from confusion to certainty. The new beliefs become essential to hold and defend lest all the good feelings that come from certanty vanish. The price paid for these good feelings is succumbing to mind control. Being reborn in this way eventually closes people to everything that does not conform to their new, ridgidly held worldview. Although one's individual (premie's) boundaries are open to the group (EV/DLM), the group's boundaries are closed to outsiders. Ultimately one only accepts and feels comfortable with those either within the system or open to proselytization. '
Sound familiar?
john how did you do your dirty work before you had the net the net is for cowards
Back To Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 15:08:45 (EST)
Poster: JW
Email:
To: me
Subject: Re: Results of Surrender
Message:
john how did you do your dirty work before you had the net the net is for cowards
Where did you learn to speak and/or write English? Whoever taught you appears to have omitted the concepts sentences
of sentences.
Back To Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 15:12:36 (EST)
Poster: JW
Email:
To: me
Subject: Re: Results of Surrender
Message:
john how did you do your dirty work before you had the net the net is for cowards
Where did you learn to speak and/or write English? Whoever taught you appears to have omitted the concepts sentences
of sentences.
Sorry for the duplication in that last response. But I do think it's disingenuous for someone who won't even use his or her own name to accuse someone who IS using his real name of being a coward.
Back To Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 21:45:50 (EST)
Poster: Miss Manners
Email:
To: JW
Subject: Re: Results of Surrender
Message:
john how did you do your dirty work before you had the net the net is for cowards
Where did you learn to speak and/or write English? Whoever taught you appears to have omitted the concepts sentences
of sentences.
Rawthah petty, wouldn't you say ol' boy? If I were you I'd be getting him on his lack of imagination instead of his English.
Back To Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 00:26:56 (EST)
Poster: Katie
Email: petkat@mail.trib.net
To: Everyone
Subject: the Visions International phone number
Message:
Dear VP and CD and anyone else who might be interested:
This is not an endorsement, BUT for anyone who wants to know, the Visions International phone number (to buy CD's and videos) is (according to an anonymous premie friend):
(805) 496-4777
I thought that this number was listed on the ex-premie site but the number that is listed there is wrong.
Back To Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 00:33:56 (EST)
Poster: VP
Email:
To: Katie
Subject: Re: the Visions International phone number
Message:
Dear VP and CD and anyone else who might be interested:
This is not an endorsement, BUT for anyone who wants to know, the Visions International phone number (to buy CD's and videos) is (according to an anonymous premie friend):
(805) 496-4777
I thought that this number was listed on the ex-premie site but the number that is listed there is wrong.
Katie, Thanks for that. I am not endorsing that anyone buy anything either. I was just curious and I am still curious as to why all of this is all such a big mystery. (Premies?) In Peace, VP
Back To Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 12:40:14 (EST)
Poster: Katie
Email: petkat@mail.trib.net
To: VP & all
Subject: Re: the Visions International phone number
Message:
I forgot to say that there are some excerpts from the Visions International catalogs/mailings on the ex-premie site at:
http://www.ex-premie.org/pages/sel_info.htm
(sorry, still don't know how to make it a link!)
Back To Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 16:19:54 (EST)
Poster: CD
Email:
To: Katie
Subject: Re: the Visions International phone number
Message:
>(sorry, still don't know how to make it a link!)
Katie and Brians stuff
Back To Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 20:20:34 (EST)
Poster: Katie
Email: petkat@mail.trib.net
To: CD
Subject: Re: the Visions International phone number
Message:
>(sorry, still don't know how to make it a link!)
Katie and Brians stuff
Thanks for the link, Chris!
Actually, to be honest, the ex-premie web page is "Brian's stuff." The reason I say that is because I am sort of like Brian's secretary here. If my name is on anything it ought to come second. He has done 95% of the work, including ALL the design work, and he gets all the e-mail and other associated responsibilities, like archiving the forum. Since he is the webmaster, he has control and approval over everything.
Plus, CD (and I know you will be disgusted by this), I don't even have Windows 95 on my computer because I am still using a 486-33 and it doesn't have enough memory to run Windows 95, let alone the web page software.
Back To Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Wed, Feb 11, 1998 at 23:28:51 (EST)
Poster: A premie
Email:
To: Everyone
Subject: Reprise - Why do people like devotion
Message:
This is a repost in response to Anon asking:
>> What point??
>> You speak very confidently albeit a little too briefly, but please carry on. What is it is exactly about the love between a master and a student that is so pure?
>>
I don't mind at all Anon.
Maharaji offers something. What is it? It's not meditation. It's not abdication of responsibility for your actions. It's not a set of beliefs and explanations. It's not a religious power trip. What it IS is explained in one word... DEVOTION.
The devotion I am talking about is a bond between two PEOPLE. Within that bond is a relationship that is intimate, and is known by none outside of the two. It is special because it is based upon undying and uncompromising love. In true devotion there is no demand that the bond makes upon the two except to love. And in that one demand a union is made and the two are freed. That is the gift the master gives.
(Now I know someone may say, "just some more pretty sounding words". This is however real for me.)
Back To Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 00:46:11 (EST)
Poster: 70's premie
Email:
To: A premie
Subject: Re: Reprise - Why do people like devotion
Message:
This is a repost in response to Anon asking:
>> What point??
>> You speak very confidently albeit a little too briefly, but please carry on. What is it is exactly about the love between a master and a student that is so pure?
>>
I don't mind at all Anon.
Maharaji offers something. What is it? It's not meditation. It's not abdication of responsibility for your actions. It's not a set of beliefs and explanations. It's not a religious power trip. What it IS is explained in one word... DEVOTION.
The devotion I am talking about is a bond between two PEOPLE. Within that bond is a relationship that is intimate, and is known by none outside of the two. It is special because it is based upon undying and uncompromising love. In true devotion there is no demand that the bond makes upon the two except to love. And in that one demand a union is made and the two are freed. That is the gift the master gives.
(Now I know someone may say, 'just some more pretty sounding words'. This is however real for me.)
Devotion. Been there, done that, bought a T-shirt.
Actually, there was only one person involved in my devotional relationship and that was me. Maharaji didn't even know who in the hell I was.
Back To Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 01:20:11 (EST)
Poster: JW
Email:
To: A premie
Subject: Re: Reprise - Why do people like devotion
Message:
This is a repost in response to Anon asking:
>> What point??
>> You speak very confidently albeit a little too briefly, but please carry on. What is it is exactly about the love between a master and a student that is so pure?
>>
I don't mind at all Anon.
Maharaji offers something. What is it? It's not meditation. It's not abdication of responsibility for your actions. It's not a set of beliefs and explanations. It's not a religious power trip. What it IS is explained in one word... DEVOTION.
The devotion I am talking about is a bond between two PEOPLE. Within that bond is a relationship that is intimate, and is known by none outside of the two. It is special because it is based upon undying and uncompromising love. In true devotion there is no demand that the bond makes upon the two except to love. And in that one demand a union is made and the two are freed. That is the gift the master gives.
(Now I know someone may say, 'just some more pretty sounding words'. This is however real for me.)
I agree that you can't really have a true relationship with anyone you don't know personally. With Maharaji, he is so removed from 99.9% of the premies that they can be devoted to an absolute fantasy. I thought I experienced devotion, and it felt good, but it wasn't anything more than a one-way, very sick obsession on my part. As 70s premie said, M didn't even know I was alive.
But moreover, I would ask "a premie" why, if devotion is the true thing M's trip is about, that aspirants are so carefully NOT told about it before they get involved, and why M doesn't even mention the word anymore? Why is he hiding it if, like you said, it's so great?
Back To Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 02:05:56 (EST)
Poster: JW
Email:
To: A premie
Subject: Re: Reprise - Why do people like devotion
Message:
I would like to thank "A Premie" for saying what the other premies who have posted here, and apparently Maharaji himself, won't say anymore. That really, what Maharaji's trip is all about is devotion of the premies to Maharaji, "The Master." It's refreshing to actually hear that stated out loud.
Back To Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 02:52:06 (EST)
Poster: Mili
Email: mili@cheerful.com
To: A premie
Subject: Re: Reprise - Why do people like devotion
Message:
Devotion is based on the practice of Knowledge. Some people do feel something deep and real from it, you know! For me it was/is something entirely unexpected, but totally familiar at the same time. Paradoxical? You betcha. Not a fantasy, but a real stirring in the heart and a gush of unique, blissful experience. Definitely beyond a mood, or emotion. The world appears luminous. There is a soothing, healing feeling of peace. It feels completely natural and right.
For me, to be devoted to Maharaji means to be devoted to the practice of Knowledge, and heed what the Master has to say about it. He actually said once, 'If Maharaji were precious to you, then his KNOWLEDGE would be precious to you.'
In that connection here's a story some of you probably remember well:
There was a farmer in the desert who saw what appeared to be a piece of glass shining, so he picked it up. He said, "Oh, this is not precious," and threw it away and went on. After some time a jeweller came, picked it up, and said, "Oh, it is a diamond, how lucky I am!" So he put it in his pocket. They both came; they both picked up that diamond, but one was clever enough to know its value, and the other was ignorant and left it.
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Date: Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 06:19:28 (EST)
Poster: Brian
Email: brian@ex-premie.org
To: Mili
Subject: Re: Reprise - Why do people like devotion
Message:
Ah, yes. Maharaji's stories. What better way to fill time, while dancing around the need to address anything directly. The nice part about them is that, while saying nothing, they represent anything that listeners want to be told.
What story were you told, Mili, that caused you to take down the Guestbook at premie.com? Please share.
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Date: Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 07:05:59 (EST)
Poster: Anon
Email:
To: A premie
Subject: Re: Reprise - Why do people like devotion
Message:
I don't mind at all Anon.
Maharaji offers something. What is it? It's not meditation. It's not abdication of responsibility for your actions. It's not a set of beliefs and explanations. It's not a religious power trip. What it IS is explained in one word... DEVOTION.
The devotion I am talking about is a bond between two PEOPLE. Within that bond is a relationship that is intimate, and is known by none outside of the two. It is special because it is based upon undying and uncompromising love. In true devotion there is no demand that the bond makes upon the two except to love. And in that one demand a union is made and the two are freed. That is the gift the master gives. (Now I know someone may say, 'just some more pretty sounding words'. This is however real for me.)
Thank you very much for the frank response.
Well, I was a devotee once and I could have said the same words as you.
As you may gather I have undergone some change of heart. I am a little tired of defending the depth/sincerity of my former devotion to MJ to current premies who naively and cowardishly assert that I didn't have what it took.. I have just finished talking with a premie (who was a once a good friend) who now is so opinionated that I cannot speak to him without soliciting an aggressive and blustering response.(we ended up arguing.. he walked out in a shaking rage of emotion, all after a righteous and condescending lecture on devotion) This guy tells me (very pompously and bizarrely) that I was. in his opinion, just going through the motions of devotion and never really surrendered my ego etc.and that (of course) he did to a greater extent and that is why he has the great experience and recognises Maharaji as the great Master and I don't. He is now, in my opinion deluded and insensitive to a psychotic degree.
I guess I feel that the devotion that I had to Maharaji had very considerable demands which ultimately led to me becoming miserable and disillusioned. I also feel that the 'love' was pretty one-sided. (I concur with JW on this)
I haven't met anyone yet who really seems free and full of love and understanding who is a devotee of Maharaji. I have met plenty in the twenty three years I have had with Knowledgee.. We will have to beg to differ. The thing that would be nice to achieve is a sense of mutual respect enough to enable some healing conversation between those involved.
It really saddens me that some once good friends who used to discuss life rationally and with honest passion, have become seemingly committed hypocrites who not only cannot talk reasonably but who bear all the worrying and aggressive hallmarks of bombastic and often aggressively defensive zealots. In other words they have sadly lost the ability to consider things impartially and thereby in balance.(if they ever had it) Their bias is usually extraordinary and unhealthy.
Anyway I am glad that I challenged what I thought was such a precious and sacrosanct bond, because doing so enabled me to see that I was being deluded by an uncaring power that has little to do with love or truth and more to do with conditioning people with suggestion and not an inconsiderable dose of fear when it suits.
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Date: Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 08:19:12 (EST)
Poster: Mili
Email: mili@cheerful.com
To: Brian
Subject: Re: Reprise - Why do people like devotion
Message:
Ah, yes. Maharaji's stories. What better way to fill time, while dancing around the need to address anything directly. The nice part about them is that, while saying nothing, they represent anything that listeners want to be told.
What story were you told, Mili, that caused you to take down the Guestbook at premie.com? Please share.
Gosh Brian, I am tempted to think that you might be a little irritated that I am posting in your 'Forum'. Nah, you couldn't be - this is the place where utter freedom of speech and thought reigns, right?
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Date: Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 08:32:05 (EST)
Poster: Mili
Email: mili@cheerful.com
To: Anon
Subject: Re: Reprise - Why do people like devotion
Message:
I don't mind at all Anon.
Maharaji offers something. What is it? It's not meditation. It's not abdication of responsibility for your actions. It's not a set of beliefs and explanations. It's not a religious power trip. What it IS is explained in one word... DEVOTION.
The devotion I am talking about is a bond between two PEOPLE. Within that bond is a relationship that is intimate, and is known by none outside of the two. It is special because it is based upon undying and uncompromising love. In true devotion there is no demand that the bond makes upon the two except to love. And in that one demand a union is made and the two are freed. That is the gift the master gives. (Now I know someone may say, 'just some more pretty sounding words'. This is however real for me.)
Thank you very much for the frank response.
Well, I was a devotee once and I could have said the same words as you.
As you may gather I have undergone some change of heart. I am a little tired of defending the depth/sincerity of my former devotion to MJ to current premies who naively and cowardishly assert that I didn't have what it took.. I have just finished talking with a premie (who was a once a good friend) who now is so opinionated that I cannot speak to him without soliciting an aggressive and blustering response.(we ended up arguing.. he walked out in a shaking rage of emotion, all after a righteous and condescending lecture on devotion) This guy tells me (very pompously and bizarrely) that I was. in his opinion, just going through the motions of devotion and never really surrendered my ego etc.and that (of course) he did to a greater extent and that is why he has the great experience and recognises Maharaji as the great Master and I don't. He is now, in my opinion deluded and insensitive to a psychotic degree.
I guess I feel that the devotion that I had to Maharaji had very considerable demands which ultimately led to me becoming miserable and disillusioned. I also feel that the 'love' was pretty one-sided. (I concur with JW on this)
I haven't met anyone yet who really seems free and full of love and understanding who is a devotee of Maharaji. I have met plenty in the twenty three years I have had with Knowledgee.. We will have to beg to differ. The thing that would be nice to achieve is a sense of mutual respect enough to enable some healing conversation between those involved.
It really saddens me that some once good friends who used to discuss life rationally and with honest passion, have become seemingly committed hypocrites who not only cannot talk reasonably but who bear all the worrying and aggressive hallmarks of bombastic and often aggressively defensive zealots. In other words they have sadly lost the ability to consider things impartially and thereby in balance.(if they ever had it) Their bias is usually extraordinary and unhealthy.
Anyway I am glad that I challenged what I thought was such a precious and sacrosanct bond, because doing so enabled me to see that I was being deluded by an uncaring power that has little to do with love or truth and more to do with conditioning people with suggestion and not an inconsiderable dose of fear when it suits.
Come on, Anon, (actually we all know by now that your name is Jerome, so why do you keep throwing that little cheap mystique at us) - it's time to be a little honest here.
You are just being coy - of course your friend got upset if you purposely insulted his Master. Just a normal human reaction.
Why don't you admit that whatever you feel towards Maharaji is directly correlated to your practice of Knowledge? The more you practice, the more sense it makes what he is talking about, and the more important he becomes in your life. When you stop practicing Knowledge, after a while you forget what it was you were getting out of it and begin wondering what it was that attracted you to Maharaji in the first place. That's just a simple dynamics of this thing.
There is no devotion without the practice of Knowledge, and its really easy to forget all about the Knowledge when you lose sight of Maharaji.
When you practice Knowledge, devotion flows to the Master of its own accord.
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Date: Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 09:28:09 (EST)
Poster: Scott T.
Email:
To: Mili
Subject: Re: Reprise - Why do people like devotion
Message:
Come on, Anon, (actually we all know by now that your name is Jerome, so why do you keep throwing that little cheap mystique at us) - it's time to be a little honest here.
You are just being coy - of course your friend got upset if you purposely insulted his Master. Just a normal human reaction.
Why don't you admit that whatever you feel towards Maharaji is directly correlated to your practice of Knowledge? The more you practice, the more sense it makes what he is talking about, and the more important he becomes in your life. When you stop practicing Knowledge, after a while you forget what it was you were getting out of it and begin wondering what it was that attracted you to Maharaji in the first place. That's just a simple dynamics of this thing.
There is no devotion without the practice of Knowledge, and its really easy to forget all about the Knowledge when you lose sight of Maharaji.
When you practice Knowledge, devotion flows to the Master of its own accord.
Mili:
To quote the words from a really lovely old song: "It Ain't Necessarily So." The practice of what you refer to as "Knowledge," (which is only one legitimate name for it) is not under the sole proprietorship of Maharaji, and never has been. The generic name for the practice is "Shabd Yoga," and has been taught by a variety of masters. Maharaji is not even a very big player in that lineage. It's also quite clear from the history and research that nearly all of those masters were flawed in some personal and critical way. Which raises the question of why a "perfect" knowledge is propagated by a series of flawed Gurus. I don't make light of this issue. It is truly mysterious, like a number of things in life. More information on gurus and Shabd Yoga at The Neural Surfer at: http://weber.ucsd.edu/~dlane/
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Date: Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 09:48:45 (EST)
Poster: Sir David
Email: djulian@cix.compulink.co.uk
To: Scott T. & all
Subject: Re: Reprise - Why do people like devotion
Message:
Devotion, love. whatever you call it, is a beautiful thing. Some people are devoted to a cause, a person, a group of people, their family and some people are devoted to a guru.
The mistake is thinking that if you experience devotion for a person that other people should feel it too. I am sure that God, who is love, can manifest Himself as anything and anyone at any time. Some people love the Pope. That is real for them. Some people love Jesus. That is real for them. Some people love Maharaji. That is real for them. I think devotion is in the eye of the beholder. God, who is all love will accept our love for Him in any way we give it.
My stepfather is 84 and spends his time caring for my infirm stepmother. His love and devotion to her is wonderful. He is just as close to God as the premie or the Christian. Because he is acting out of love. Surely nobody could disagree...
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Date: Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 10:12:08 (EST)
Poster: Mr Ex
Email:
To: Sir David
Subject: Why do people leave devotion? (Re: Reprise - Why do people like devotion)
Message:
>It really saddens me that some once good friends who used to discuss life rationally >and with honest passion, have become seemingly committed hypocrites who not only >cannot talk reasonably but who bear all the worrying and aggressive hallmarks of >bombastic and often aggressively defensive zealots. In other words they have sadly >lost the ability to consider things impartially and thereby in balance.(if they ever had it) >Their bias is usually extraordinary and unhealthy.
>Which raises the question of why a 'perfect' knowledge is propagated by a series of >flawed Gurus. I don't make light of this issue. It is truly mysterious, like a number of >things in life. More information on gurus and Shabd Yoga at The Neural Surfer at: >http://weber.ucsd.edu/~dlane/
The only logical explanation for this is that
practice of meditation and a devotion bond with a guru of that type makes you psychotic.
The guru’s personality is the perfect example of that issue.
I’m glad to be out of this crazyness.
If you enjoy meditation, no need to abandon it. You’ll keep feeling the same thing.
It’s YOUR life, it’s YOUR heart, it’s Your God if you want one.
Mr Rawat doesn’t own anything, except all you’ve paid for him with your money.
Claim it back.
It’s not that difficult to leave the cult.
Many painful events that can occur in life.
Leaving a cult you’ve been lured in is a painful but healthy action.
It’s healthy to recognize you’re wrong and do something about it.
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Date: Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 10:17:29 (EST)
Poster: VP
Email:
To: Mili
Subject: Re: Reprise - Why do people like devotion
Message:
Devotion is based on the practice of Knowledge. Some people do feel something deep and real from it, you know! For me it was/is something entirely unexpected, but totally familiar at the same time. Paradoxical? You betcha. Not a fantasy, but a real stirring in the heart and a gush of unique, blissful experience. Definitely beyond a mood, or emotion. The world appears luminous. There is a soothing, healing feeling of peace. It feels completely natural and right.
For me, to be devoted to Maharaji means to be devoted to the practice of Knowledge, and heed what the Master has to say about it. He actually said once, 'If Maharaji were precious to you, then his KNOWLEDGE would be precious to you.'
In that connection here's a story some of you probably remember well:
There was a farmer in the desert who saw what appeared to be a piece of glass shining, so he picked it up. He said, 'Oh, this is not precious,' and threw it away and went on. After some time a jeweller came, picked it up, and said, 'Oh, it is a diamond, how lucky I am!' So he put it in his pocket. They both came; they both picked up that diamond, but one was clever enough to know its value, and the other was ignorant and left it.
Maybe the farmer wasn't ignorant. Maybe there were other things that he considered precious - a good rain, a good crop, health, the earth, love for his family, or something else entirely. Maybe when he saw the diamond he said, "Oh, that's just about money." and went on to what really mattered for him. Maybe he didn't overlook or miss something. Maybe he rejected it based on his values. Maybe the jeweler is the one who is ignorant. Just another way to look at things.
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Date: Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 10:57:16 (EST)
Poster: Scott T.
Email:
To: Mr Ex
Subject: Re: Why do people leave devotion? (Re: Reprise - Why do people like devotion)
Message:
>It really saddens me that some once good friends who used to discuss life rationally >and with honest passion, have become seemingly committed hypocrites who not only >cannot talk reasonably but who bear all the worrying and aggressive hallmarks of >bombastic and often aggressively defensive zealots. In other words they have sadly >lost the ability to consider things impartially and thereby in balance.(if they ever had it) >Their bias is usually extraordinary and unhealthy.
>Which raises the question of why a 'perfect' knowledge is propagated by a series of >flawed Gurus. I don't make light of this issue. It is truly mysterious, like a number of >things in life. More information on gurus and Shabd Yoga at The Neural Surfer at: >http://weber.ucsd.edu/~dlane/
The only logical explanation for this is that
practice of meditation and a devotion bond with a guru of that type makes you psychotic.
The guru’s personality is the perfect example of that issue.
I’m glad to be out of this crazyness.
If you enjoy meditation, no need to abandon it. You’ll keep feeling the same thing.
It’s YOUR life, it’s YOUR heart, it’s Your God if you want one.
Mr Rawat doesn’t own anything, except all you’ve paid for him with your money.
Claim it back.
It’s not that difficult to leave the cult.
Many painful events that can occur in life.
Leaving a cult you’ve been lured in is a painful but healthy action.
It’s healthy to recognize you’re wrong and do something about it.
Mr. Ex:
The conclusion that I think you made, that Knowledge only seems perfect if you're psychotic, is just a bit too glib. For instance, there are other verifications of the rather specialized perceptions involved in Knowledge-: Hear/Speak/Discourse (Word), Visual Beauty (Light), Taste (both kinds-nector), and Rythm, Music (Music) are supported by empirical evidence. In other words, judgments about what is beautiful are not completely "in the eye of the beholder," but there is a universal set of standards to which all humans seem to adhere. (See Frederick Turner.)
All of this raises the question of whether or not Knowledge is a "magic trick" that plays off of the human pre-programmed neuron package of perceptual capacities. Even if that is true, however, one is left with the problem of explaining the universality of standards of percetption and affinities. Is it "designed" or did it "evolve?" That determination is up to you...
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Date: Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 11:48:42 (EST)
Poster: Katie off topic
Email: petkat@mail.trib.net
To: Mili
Subject: To Mili (Re: Reprise - Why do people like devotion)
Message:
Dear Mili - FYI and to avoid future confusion, Jerome Scribener is an alias made up by Scott P. St. Jerome is the patron saint of librarians, and Scribener comes from scribe. Very literary.
BTW, someone was asking about you, so could you put the link to your home page up again when you get a chance?
Thanks,
Katie
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Date: Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 13:49:00 (EST)
Poster: Mili
Email: mili@cheerful.com
To: Katie
Subject: Katie off topic (Re: Reprise - Why do people like devotion)
Message:
Dear Mili - FYI and to avoid future confusion, Jerome Scribener is an alias made up by Scott P. St. Jerome is the patron saint of librarians, and Scribener comes from scribe. Very literary.
BTW, someone was asking about you, so could you put the link to your home page up again when you get a chance?
Thanks,
Katie
Yeah, Katie, sure - here's the URL:
Mili's Homepage
I hope you'll notice that it's just a simple ol' homepage. I tried to make it in such a way that it reflects the real me. I am not proselytizing or laying a trip on anyone there.
Are you saying that the 'Anon' that I've been talking so far is Jerome Scribner and in fact, Scott Perry? That's really strange!
One thing is certain, I think - if we really knew what we actually look like and who we really are, there wouldn't be so many flames happening around here.
Desmond Morris says a similar thing about the aggressive behavior of 'naked apes' (humans as he refers to them in his books). Humans have a natural reluctance to kill each other - if they can see and hear their opponent. It's called conscience. If, on the other hand, the weapons of destruction function at a distance, such as with bombs, artillery and nukes, it's much easier on your conscience because you cannot really see or hear the people you are killing screaming and suffering. Also, that's why it's easier for the taxman to rip you off. He doesn't really see the people he is taxing and landing in jail if they do not pay their taxes!
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Date: Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 14:07:08 (EST)
Poster: Katie
Email:
To: Mili
Subject: Re: Katie off topic (Re: Reprise - Why do people like devotion)
Message:
Dear Mili - FYI and to avoid future confusion, Jerome Scribener is an alias made up by Scott P. St. Jerome is the patron saint of librarians, and Scribener comes from scribe. Very literary.
BTW, someone was asking about you, so could you put the link to your home page up again when you get a chance?
Thanks,
Katie
Yeah, Katie, sure - here's the URL:
Mili's Homepage
I hope you'll notice that it's just a simple ol' homepage. I tried to make it in such a way that it reflects the real me. I am not proselytizing or laying a trip on anyone there.
Are you saying that the 'Anon' that I've been talking so far is Jerome Scribner and in fact, Scott Perry? That's really strange!
One thing is certain, I think - if we really knew what we actually look like and who we really are, there wouldn't be so many flames happening around here.
Desmond Morris says a similar thing about the aggressive behavior of 'naked apes' (humans as he refers to them in his books). Humans have a natural reluctance to kill each other - if they can see and hear their opponent. It's called conscience. If, on the other hand, the weapons of destruction function at a distance, such as with bombs, artillery and nukes, it's much easier on your conscience because you cannot really see or hear the people you are killing screaming and suffering. Also, that's why it's easier for the taxman to rip you off. He doesn't really see the people he is taxing and landing in jail if they do not pay their taxes!
Dear Mili -
Before rumors get started...
No, Anon is not Scott Perry! Scott Perry just made up the name Jerome Scribener for someone else.
I agree about the fact that there would be less flames if we knew what other people looked like and who they were. In almost all cases, that is, since there's always someone who wants to flame someone because of how they look or who they are!
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Date: Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 14:17:49 (EST)
Poster: eb
Email:
To: Mr Ex
Subject: Re: Why do people leave devotion? (Re: Reprise - Why do people like devotion)
Message:
I agree, Mr. Ex. I look back and remember the dilemma I had whenever I'd return home from a festival--"If I was really devoted," I thought, "I should leave my kids and move into the ashram." I'm grateful that I never did leave them. But I sure felt like a yo-yo at the time, very crazy and guilt-ridden.
eb
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Date: Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 17:47:11 (EST)
Poster: A premie
Email:
To: 70's premie
Subject: Re: Reprise - Why do people like devotion
Message:
This is a repost in response to Anon asking:
>> What point??
>> You speak very confidently albeit a little too briefly, but please carry on. What is it is exactly about the love between a master and a student that is so pure?
>>
I don't mind at all Anon.
Maharaji offers something. What is it? It's not meditation. It's not abdication of responsibility for your actions. It's not a set of beliefs and explanations. It's not a religious power trip. What it IS is explained in one word... DEVOTION.
The devotion I am talking about is a bond between two PEOPLE. Within that bond is a relationship that is intimate, and is known by none outside of the two. It is special because it is based upon undying and uncompromising love. In true devotion there is no demand that the bond makes upon the two except to love. And in that one demand a union is made and the two are freed. That is the gift the master gives.
(Now I know someone may say, 'just some more pretty sounding words'. This is however real for me.)
Devotion. Been there, done that, bought a T-shirt.
Actually, there was only one person involved in my devotional relationship and that was me. Maharaji didn't even know who in the hell I was.
Devotion is true love, and true love never ends. As such it is the one window to eternity that we mortal humans have. So if it ended, it wasn't devotion - sorry Charlie.
And it wasn't one way. He was talking to you but you weren't hearing. That's too bad.
For those who have real devotion, they DO know eternity. For them there is *NOTHING* to compare, and it could never be dispuited in their heart of hearts. It is the Master who gives the gift of devotion, because his heart is strong enough to give never ending love without conditions. Look at his personality, his actions, or the people around him and you will be fooled. Look at his heart and you will see a love you can trust enough to give yours in return. In that act there is complete liberation.
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Date: Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 17:48:34 (EST)
Poster: bftb
Email:
To: Mili
Subject: Re: Katie off topic (Re: Reprise - Why do people like devotion)
Message:
Dear Mili - FYI and to avoid future confusion, Jerome Scribener is an alias made up by Scott P. St. Jerome is the patron saint of librarians, and Scribener comes from scribe. Very literary.
BTW, someone was asking about you, so could you put the link to your home page up again when you get a chance?
Thanks,
Katie
Yeah, Katie, sure - here's the URL:
Mili's Homepage
I hope you'll notice that it's just a simple ol' homepage. I tried to make it in such a way that it reflects the real me. I am not proselytizing or laying a trip on anyone there.
Are you saying that the 'Anon' that I've been talking so far is Jerome Scribner and in fact, Scott Perry? That's really strange!
One thing is certain, I think - if we really knew what we actually look like and who we really are, there wouldn't be so many flames happening around here.
Desmond Morris says a similar thing about the aggressive behavior of 'naked apes' (humans as he refers to them in his books). Humans have a natural reluctance to kill each other - if they can see and hear their opponent. It's called conscience. If, on the other hand, the weapons of destruction function at a distance, such as with bombs, artillery and nukes, it's much easier on your conscience because you cannot really see or hear the people you are killing screaming and suffering. Also, that's why it's easier for the taxman to rip you off. He doesn't really see the people he is taxing and landing in jail if they do not pay their taxes!
mili dude,this is NOT meant as a flame so please don't take it that way.
I agree with what you say and I think it shows that you're making progress in that to these eyes, your post read like you had seen the light and will stop insulting people from now on.cool!
And I wouldn't be at all surprised if you've evolved to the point where you no longer want to ban free speech.Ultra cool!
I knew you had it in you to be reasonable and I no longer feel silly for having defended you in the past.I said all along that you were actually allright underneath the nonsense,glad to see my hunch was right.
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Date: Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 17:54:24 (EST)
Poster: A premie
Email:
To: Mr Ex
Subject: Re: Why do people leave devotion? (Re: Reprise - Why do people like devotion)
Message:
>It really saddens me that some once good friends who used to discuss life rationally >and with honest passion, have become seemingly committed hypocrites who not only >cannot talk reasonably but who bear all the worrying and aggressive hallmarks of >bombastic and often aggressively defensive zealots. In other words they have sadly >lost the ability to consider things impartially and thereby in balance.(if they ever had it) >Their bias is usually extraordinary and unhealthy.
>Which raises the question of why a 'perfect' knowledge is propagated by a series of >flawed Gurus. I don't make light of this issue. It is truly mysterious, like a number of >things in life. More information on gurus and Shabd Yoga at The Neural Surfer at: >http://weber.ucsd.edu/~dlane/
The only logical explanation for this is that
practice of meditation and a devotion bond with a guru of that type makes you psychotic.
The guru’s personality is the perfect example of that issue.
I’m glad to be out of this crazyness.
If you enjoy meditation, no need to abandon it. You’ll keep feeling the same thing.
It’s YOUR life, it’s YOUR heart, it’s Your God if you want one.
Mr Rawat doesn’t own anything, except all you’ve paid for him with your money.
Claim it back.
It’s not that difficult to leave the cult.
Many painful events that can occur in life.
Leaving a cult you’ve been lured in is a painful but healthy action.
It’s healthy to recognize you’re wrong and do something about it.
If you get the same experience from meditation after leaving Maharaji as you did before then you clearly were not experiencing much. I know cause I've tried that route too. If that's all you had, then no loss; you made the right move.
If you had devotion, then you could never leave because you'd never be able to replace it by merely meditating. The pain resulting from the ensuing emptiness would haunt you. Such are the hard facts of life my friend. If you once knew devotion, you will never forget its sweet taste.
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Date: Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 18:08:18 (EST)
Poster: Mili
Email: mili@cheerful.com
To: bftb
Subject: to bro bftb (Re: Reprise - Why do people like devotion)
Message:
Dear Mili - FYI and to avoid future confusion, Jerome Scribener is an alias made up by Scott P. St. Jerome is the patron saint of librarians, and Scribener comes from scribe. Very literary.
BTW, someone was asking about you, so could you put the link to your home page up again when you get a chance?
Thanks,
Katie
Yeah, Katie, sure - here's the URL:
Mili's Homepage
I hope you'll notice that it's just a simple ol' homepage. I tried to make it in such a way that it reflects the real me. I am not proselytizing or laying a trip on anyone there.
Are you saying that the 'Anon' that I've been talking so far is Jerome Scribner and in fact, Scott Perry? That's really strange!
One thing is certain, I think - if we really knew what we actually look like and who we really are, there wouldn't be so many flames happening around here.
Desmond Morris says a similar thing about the aggressive behavior of 'naked apes' (humans as he refers to them in his books). Humans have a natural reluctance to kill each other - if they can see and hear their opponent. It's called conscience. If, on the other hand, the weapons of destruction function at a distance, such as with bombs, artillery and nukes, it's much easier on your conscience because you cannot really see or hear the people you are killing screaming and suffering. Also, that's why it's easier for the taxman to rip you off. He doesn't really see the people he is taxing and landing in jail if they do not pay their taxes!
mili dude,this is NOT meant as a flame so please don't take it that way.
I agree with what you say and I think it shows that you're making progress in that to these eyes, your post read like you had seen the light and will stop insulting people from now on.cool!
And I wouldn't be at all surprised if you've evolved to the point where you no longer want to ban free speech.Ultra cool!
I knew you had it in you to be reasonable and I no longer feel silly for having defended you in the past.I said all along that you were actually allright underneath the nonsense,glad to see my hunch was right.
"I too have looked long for enlightenment, and in many places - trying to make it so much more complicated than I believe it is. The times in which I've felt the strongest connection to the world around me have been the few instances in which I too have been able to muster the courage to let go of my attachment to what comes next.... What amazes me even more though is that even after experiencing such freedom, it is still very difficult and frightening when I'm faced with the opportunity to release that 'wanting' again. Even when I know what beauty and emotion waits on the other side, most of the time I turn away - and turn back to the false security of treating life as if it was a problem to be solved, rather than an experience to be enjoyed."
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Date: Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 18:09:02 (EST)
Poster: A premie
Email:
To: JW
Subject: Re: Reprise - Why do people like devotion
Message:
I would like to thank 'A Premie' for saying what the other premies who have posted here, and apparently Maharaji himself, won't say anymore. That really, what Maharaji's trip is all about is devotion of the premies to Maharaji, 'The Master.' It's refreshing to actually hear that stated out loud.
I know JW. I got kinda fed up with people dancing around the issue.
Devotion IS the real gift that the master gives. But how can you say what it is to someone who doesn't know it, without their mind going beserk trying to figure it all out, and muddying the water?
There is a place for devotion in the pantheon of human experience. But it's not for everybody. If anybody made a mistake in judgement, it would be thinking that it was.
That said, it doesn't diminish the precious nature of the gift to those who want it. It is the highest and purest thing I've ever experienced, and it has left an indullable mark on my heart.
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Date: Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 18:11:50 (EST)
Poster: A premie
Email:
To: eb
Subject: Re: Why do people leave devotion? (Re: Reprise - Why do people like devotion)
Message:
I agree, Mr. Ex. I look back and remember the dilemma I had whenever I'd return home from a festival--'If I was really devoted,' I thought, 'I should leave my kids and move into the ashram.' I'm grateful that I never did leave them. But I sure felt like a yo-yo at the time, very crazy and guilt-ridden.
eb
So I hope you take responsibility for that guilt - it's completely yours, and certainly not Maharaji's.
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Date: Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 18:25:41 (EST)
Poster: A premie
Email:
To: Sir David
Subject: Re: Reprise - Why do people like devotion
Message:
Devotion, love. whatever you call it, is a beautiful thing. Some people are devoted to a cause, a person, a group of people, their family and some people are devoted to a guru.
The mistake is thinking that if you experience devotion for a person that other people should feel it too. I am sure that God, who is love, can manifest Himself as anything and anyone at any time. Some people love the Pope. That is real for them. Some people love Jesus. That is real for them. Some people love Maharaji. That is real for them. I think devotion is in the eye of the beholder. God, who is all love will accept our love for Him in any way we give it.
My stepfather is 84 and spends his time caring for my infirm stepmother. His love and devotion to her is wonderful. He is just as close to God as the premie or the Christian. Because he is acting out of love. Surely nobody could disagree...
Some could disagree, but I won't - I respect devotion too much. In the same way, you must give the devotion between those who are sincerely devoted to Maharaji and him the same respect and reverence as you do for the devotion between your grandparents. Because the love I have seen exchanged between him and his followers on many occasions is just as holy.
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Date: Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 19:25:06 (EST)
Poster: JW
Email:
To: A premie
Subject: Re: Reprise - Why do people like devotion
Message:
I would like to thank 'A Premie' for saying what the other premies who have posted here, and apparently Maharaji is all about is devotion of the premies to Maharaji, 'The Master.' It's refreshing to actually hear that stated out loud.
I know JW. I got kinda fed up with people dancing around the issue.
Devotion IS the real gift that the master gives. But how can you say what it is to someone who doesn't know it, without their mind going beserk trying to figure it all out, and muddying the water?
There is a place for devotion in the pantheon of human experience. But it's not for everybody. If anybody made a mistake in judgement, it would be thinking that it was.
That said, it doesn't diminish the precious nature of the gift to those who want it. It is the highest and purest thing I've ever experienced, and it has left an indullable mark on my heart.
I appreciate your honesty, or at least for you saying what you really believe. But I still think it's deceitful not to let people know that devotion is what the whole trip is about when they first get interested. I mean, rather than deluding people into thinking it's just an internal experience of meditation. If you read that aspirant manual/guide, it really is a recipe book for how to lead people along without really telling them what is going on until their hooked. That looks a lot like programming and that there is something to hide.
If people want the devotional trip, which, as I said, I think is a fantasy, based on my experience, that's fine. But there should get an honest story and also be able to hear both sides. That's why I'm glad there is this website. People have more of an opportunity to hear both sides and decide for themselves.
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Date: Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 19:58:57 (EST)
Poster: Bongo
Email:
To: A premie
Subject: Re: Reprise - Why do people like devotion
Message:
Thanx.......This Premie here says same as that..Its the real thingxxx
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Date: Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 20:15:04 (EST)
Poster: A true devotee
Email: tell ya later
To: to all who disagree
Subject: Re: Reprise - Why do people like devotion
Message:
Unkind is the wordsmith that must honk vomit at a satguru. Disbelievers implicate that Maraji seeks to fraudulize the earthling with false promptings when only by his goodness gracious comes divine engorgement and spiritual bloat. His feet are lily-perfect on the earthly pond of foul stenchings. We glaze longwards at the mango-fruit, and we feel the mango's bumps as the blind feel up the elephant, but is that the mango?. Satguru reveals the flavour of that fruitpiece and by jingo, it is faultless and slurpworthy, ambrosia rice pudding, and by his grace the secretive eye of my furrowed and sorrowful brow grates open with a ping! ping! ping! into the hairy white hiss that is the whispering grass of nirvana. Such blissful abundance. Oh! It is taller than the very wormfeed of deliverance and cool as warm frottage. Or am I mistaken?
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Date: Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 20:37:27 (EST)
Poster: bftb
Email:
To: Mili
Subject: Re: to bro bftb (Re: Reprise - Why do people like devotion)
Message:
'all these trials will soon be past,show me something built to last'
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Date: Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 21:36:16 (EST)
Poster: A premie
Email:
To: JW
Subject: Re: Reprise - Why do people like devotion
Message:
I would like to thank 'A Premie' for saying what the other premies who have posted here, and apparently Maharaji is all about is devotion of the premies to Maharaji, 'The Master.' It's refreshing to actually hear that stated out loud.
I know JW. I got kinda fed up with people dancing around the issue.
Devotion IS the real gift that the master gives. But how can you say what it is to someone who doesn't know it, without their mind going beserk trying to figure it all out, and muddying the water?
There is a place for devotion in the pantheon of human experience. But it's not for everybody. If anybody made a mistake in judgement, it would be thinking that it was.
That said, it doesn't diminish the precious nature of the gift to those who want it. It is the highest and purest thing I've ever experienced, and it has left an indullable mark on my heart.
I appreciate your honesty, or at least for you saying what you really believe. But I still think it's deceitful not to let people know that devotion is what the whole trip is about when they first get interested. I mean, rather than deluding people into thinking it's just an internal experience of meditation. If you read that aspirant manual/guide, it really is a recipe book for how to lead people along without really telling them what is going on until their hooked. That looks a lot like programming and that there is something to hide.
If people want the devotional trip, which, as I said, I think is a fantasy, based on my experience, that's fine. But there should get an honest story and also be able to hear both sides. That's why I'm glad there is this website. People have more of an opportunity to hear both sides and decide for themselves.
I was there and there was no intent to decieve; just to help people understand what they were getting into. I've re-read my own copy of the manual and sorry but I don't see the same malicious intent. Maybe 'cause I saw the care and attention was giving to the sincere people who were choosing to pursue Knowledge. Is the glass have full or... ?
As for deciet today, people come; they watch videos; they can go to a Long Beach; they see what's going. Where's the deceit? There is no intention there on the part of the people I know who communicate with aspirants about receiving K.
As for other premies - who can figure? Some are protective (of God knows what), and some are more up front. Such is the human race.
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Date: Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 22:18:22 (EST)
Poster: Brian
Email:
To: Mili
Subject: Re: Reprise - Why do people like devotion
Message:
Ah, yes. Maharaji's stories. What better way to fill time, while dancing around the need to address anything directly. The nice part about them is that, while saying nothing, they represent anything that listeners want to be told.
What story were you told, Mili, that caused you to take down the Guestbook at premie.com? Please share.
Gosh Brian, I am tempted to think that you might be a little irritated that I am posting in your 'Forum'. Nah, you couldn't be - this is the place where utter freedom of speech and thought reigns, right?
Now, Mili... you know better than that. Nobody has attempted to stop you from posting here. My point (which you evaded) was that you evade points. Maharaji does so with nice stories. You do it by pretending that you don't see the sentences.
You also do it by using phrases like:
we did take the site down on purpose, and it's not a problem with construction or anything like that. However there are no plans to put the site back up. No other explanation is being given at this time.
You can check the full quote by clicking here.
My question which I've asked you repeatedly is: whether or not you were contacted and asked to take the site down? Who by? Why is this so hard to answer? Or so easy to evade?
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Date: Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 22:37:17 (EST)
Poster: A premie
Email:
To: JW
Subject: Re: Reprise - Why do people like devotion
Message:
This is a repost in response to Anon asking:
>> What point??
>> You speak very confidently albeit a little too briefly, but please carry on. What is it is exactly about the love between a master and a student that is so pure?
>>
I don't mind at all Anon.
Maharaji offers something. What is it? It's not meditation. It's not abdication of responsibility for your actions. It's not a set of beliefs and explanations. It's not a religious power trip. What it IS is explained in one word... DEVOTION.
The devotion I am talking about is a bond between two PEOPLE. Within that bond is a relationship that is intimate, and is known by none outside of the two. It is special because it is based upon undying and uncompromising love. In true devotion there is no demand that the bond makes upon the two except to love. And in that one demand a union is made and the two are freed. That is the gift the master gives.
(Now I know someone may say, 'just some more pretty sounding words'. This is however real for me.)
I agree that you can't really have a true relationship with anyone you don't know personally. With Maharaji, he is so removed from 99.9% of the premies that they can be devoted to an absolute fantasy. I thought I experienced devotion, and it felt good, but it wasn't anything more than a one-way, very sick obsession on my part. As 70s premie said, M didn't even know I was alive.
But moreover, I would ask 'a premie' why, if devotion is the true thing M's trip is about, that aspirants are so carefully NOT told about it before they get involved, and why M doesn't even mention the word anymore? Why is he hiding it if, like you said, it's so great?
If you stand back and look at devotion from the vantage point of someone who is not in it, it looks wierd. How could someone else know what that bond is? It seems impersonal, irrational, exclusive, and cult-like. If you forget that you are the one in that relationship, then you'll probably start to see from the eyes of the onlooker. "What am I doing here?" ...you'll ask. This looks crazy.
For this to happen you must forget about the joy your heart experiences through devotion, and view your behaviour strictly as an outsider. And, you walk away. But you just got fooled into thinking you're being objective. The true objectivity is when you can stand back and look at it as an outsider, and NOT forget the feeling of devotion. NOT let the mental view of your behaviour drown out the song in your heart. Then you can truely call yourself objective, and you can then make a fair choice.
BTW Maharaji uses the word devotion, and doesn't hide anything about the topic. Case in point, the recent upsurge in the topic at events.
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Date: Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 22:39:52 (EST)
Poster: JW
Email:
To: A premie
Subject: Re: Reprise - Why do people like devotion
Message:
I was there and there was no intent to decieve; just to help people understand what they were getting into. I've re-read my own copy of the manual and sorry but I don't see the same malicious intent. Maybe 'cause I saw the care and attention was giving to the sincere people who were choosing to pursue Knowledge. Is the glass have full or... ?
As for deciet today, people come; they watch videos; they can go to a Long Beach; they see what's going. Where's the deceit? There is no intention there on the part of the people I know who communicate with aspirants about receiving K.
As for other premies - who can figure? Some are protective (of God knows what), and some are more up front. Such is the human race.
Well, first as a point of clarification, I don't think you are in any position to judge the "intent" of anyone else. And I have heard the spin from other premies as to why new people aren't told about devotion, surrender, darshan and what is really behind it all is devotion to and worship of Maharaji. At least in the 70s that stuff wasn't hidden from people. Of course, then, premies were actually able to give satsang and hence the aspirant process counldn't be so rigidly controlled as it is today. Sorry, but I think people can handle al the information up front and not giving it to them is deceitful, no matter what the "intent" is. I'm not surpised there are so few aspirants.
And the ex-premies who are also ex-initiators would really disagree with you about how the deception takes place. They have been pretty explicit as to being instructed to only say so much in the beginning. Even the videos are "graded" and only certain ones are supposed to be shown to new people. People aren't told the whole story up front and they should be told that.
I think premies follow the lead of Maharaji and always have, as to what they say, and often how they act. M minces his words now, almost speaks in code, to the extent he makes any sense at all, in an attempt to be more relatable. To tell you the truth, I think he would be more successful if he just came out what what he is about. As it is, it sounds so watered-down that few people are interested, and most people leave pretty quickly.
BTW- Did M ever get to the orthodontist to take care of those big gaps in his teeth? Surely he can afford it.
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Date: Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 23:20:36 (EST)
Poster: VP
Email:
To: JW
Subject: Re: Reprise - Why do people like devotion
Message:
JW,
Don't you think that most people would run like hell if they were told everything up front? Without a little programming? Up front I heard a lot about GMJ being the living lord etc. and I wanted this all to be true. It was such a palatable idea. Then when I first found out about kissing the lotus feet I was shocked. When I saw the krishna costumes and the thrones I just could not believe the arrogance! Where was the humble master? The only reason I kept up any interest was because the my premie friend was so wonderful-a really great and sincere person. And because he had done a lot of programming on me.
I agree that people should be told everything up front. Then (in my opinion) no one would get involved. What a great concept!
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Date: Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 23:41:39 (EST)
Poster: A premie
Email:
To: JW
Subject: Re: Reprise - Why do people like devotion
Message:
I was there and there was no intent to decieve; just to help people understand what they were getting into. I've re-read my own copy of the manual and sorry but I don't see the same malicious intent. Maybe 'cause I saw the care and attention was giving to the sincere people who were choosing to pursue Knowledge. Is the glass have full or... ?
As for deciet today, people come; they watch videos; they can go to a Long Beach; they see what's going. Where's the deceit? There is no intention there on the part of the people I know who communicate with aspirants about receiving K.
As for other premies - who can figure? Some are protective (of God knows what), and some are more up front. Such is the human race.
Well, first as a point of clarification, I don't think you are in any position to judge the 'intent' of anyone else. And I have heard the spin from other premies as to why new people aren't told about devotion, surrender, darshan and what is really behind it all is devotion to and worship of Maharaji. At least in the 70s that stuff wasn't hidden from people. Of course, then, premies were actually able to give satsang and hence the aspirant process counldn't be so rigidly controlled as it is today. Sorry, but I think people can handle al the information up front and not giving it to them is deceitful, no matter what the 'intent' is. I'm not surpised there are so few aspirants.
And the ex-premies who are also ex-initiators would really disagree with you about how the deception takes place. They have been pretty explicit as to being instructed to only say so much in the beginning. Even the videos are 'graded' and only certain ones are supposed to be shown to new people. People aren't told the whole story up front and they should be told that.
I think premies follow the lead of Maharaji and always have, as to what they say, and often how they act. M minces his words now, almost speaks in code, to the extent he makes any sense at all, in an attempt to be more relatable. To tell you the truth, I think he would be more successful if he just came out what what he is about. As it is, it sounds so watered-down that few people are interested, and most people leave pretty quickly.
BTW- Did M ever get to the orthodontist to take care of those big gaps in his teeth? Surely he can afford it.
There is a process in all learning. Knowledge is his course. You clearly have no idea what he was teaching so how can you comment on what the steps should be. Joe, I'll say it again... you have NO idea what he teaches. And the years you spent before the mast doesn't give you the credentials to shed light on the subject. You can however bitch and complain all you want, that's allowed.
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Date: Wed, Feb 11, 1998 at 20:02:31 (EST)
Poster: John Cavad
Email:
To: Everyone
Subject: Palm Island, Miami, Florida
Message:
Does anyone know why GMJ left his Miami residence? Did he sell it? How much did he get?
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Date: Wed, Feb 11, 1998 at 21:22:12 (EST)
Poster: Suzie
Email:
To: John Cavad
Subject: Re: Palm Island, Miami, Florida
Message:
I heard he gave it free of charge for an aids hospice
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Date: Wed, Feb 11, 1998 at 23:08:01 (EST)
Poster: John Cavad
Email:
To: Suzie
Subject: Re: Palm Island, Miami, Florida
Message:
I heard he gave it free of charge for an aids hospice
Somehow, I'm not sure about this one. Someone please confirm or deny...
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Date: Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 01:14:11 (EST)
Poster: JW
Email:
To: John Cavad
Subject: Re: Palm Island, Miami, Florida
Message:
I heard he gave it free of charge for an aids hospice
Somehow, I'm not sure about this one. Someone please confirm or deny...
Maharaji didn't own the residence on Palm Island. It was being rented. That was where M was living and it was reputed that he was going around screaming all the time and was really upset. I heard Claudia (Raja Ji's wife) was so freaked out at how pissed off M was all the time that she demanded that she and Raja Ji get their own place.
Sometime later residences were purchased on Miami Beach for M and Raja Ji. M's new residence was a huge compound that backed up on Biscayne Bay, and he docked the Wadi Sue, his multi-million dollar yacht there.
When I left the cult, he still had that residence, but a few months ago, some premies said on the forum that M didn't have a residence in Miami at all anymore. I assume it was sold, but I don't know for sure.
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Date: Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 06:24:41 (EST)
Poster: Brian
Email:
To: John Cavad
Subject: Re: Palm Island, Miami, Florida
Message:
I heard he gave it free of charge for an aids hospice
Somehow, I'm not sure about this one. Someone please confirm or deny...
Somehow I doubt it too. When MJ's hand comes out it's empty. This would be the first time I'd ever heard of him giving something to someone that wasn't already inside of them. What a guy :)
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Date: Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 10:35:17 (EST)
Poster: VP
Email:
To: JW
Subject: No answers, again... (Re: Palm Island, Miami, Florida)
Message:
I heard he gave it free of charge for an aids hospice
Somehow, I'm not sure about this one. Someone please confirm or deny...
Maharaji didn't own the residence on Palm Island. It was being rented. That was where M was living and it was reputed that he was going around screaming all the time and was really upset. I heard Claudia (Raja Ji's wife) was so freaked out at how pissed off M was all the time that she demanded that she and Raja Ji get their own place.
Sometime later residences were purchased on Miami Beach for M and Raja Ji. M's new residence was a huge compound that backed up on Biscayne Bay, and he docked the Wadi Sue, his multi-million dollar yacht there.
When I left the cult, he still had that residence, but a few months ago, some premies said on the forum that M didn't have a residence in Miami at all anymore. I assume it was sold, but I don't know for sure.
I still don't understand any legitimate reasons for M not disclosing info about his finances, properties, etc. to the devotees. It seems like whenever there is a thread on here like this, no one has a definative answer. I'm seeing a real disturbing pattern of secrecy...
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Date: Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 11:56:14 (EST)
Poster: John Cavad
Email:
To: Brian
Subject: Re: Palm Island, Miami, Florida
Message:
Suzie said, "I heard he gave it free of charge for an aids hospice"
Interesting response. Suzie, may be a premie trying to spread a good word propagating the giving & humantarian side of GMJ.
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Date: Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 12:14:58 (EST)
Poster: Luis
Email: luissanc@bellsouth.net
To: John Cavad
Subject: Re: Palm Island, Miami, Florida
Message:
I wonder if M did some drinking on the yacht Wadi Sue since Bob Mishler said that he drunk a lot alcoholic beverages (non-nectar).
I would a least have a margarita myself.
I ask this question not to gossip but to show that M is as much of human as we are.
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Date: Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 12:33:56 (EST)
Poster: JW
Email:
To: John Cavad
Subject: Re: Palm Island, Miami, Florida
Message:
Suzie said, 'I heard he gave it free of charge for an aids hospice'
Interesting response. Suzie, may be a premie trying to spread a good word propagating the giving & humantarian side of GMJ.
I think "Suzie" was being very obviously sarcastic.
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Date: Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 13:11:18 (EST)
Poster: Joy
Email:
To: Suzie
Subject: Re: Palm Island, Miami, Florida
Message:
I heard he gave it free of charge for an aids hospice
This does NOT sound characteristic of Maharaji. Does anyone know of any charitable acts of this type he has ever done? He's more likely to have sold it and used the money for some other expensive toy he desired at the moment.
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Date: Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 17:27:31 (EST)
Poster: me
Email:
To: JW
Subject: Re: Palm Island, Miami, Florida
Message:
Suzie said, 'I heard he gave it free of charge for an aids hospice'
Interesting response. Suzie, may be a premie trying to spread a good word propagating the giving & humantarian side of GMJ.
I think 'Suzie' was being very obviously sarcastic.
get a proper english life J.W. maybe u could do Something A liTtle More productive with your time otheR thaN gossip&&
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Date: Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 19:37:57 (EST)
Poster: JW
Email:
To: me
Subject: Re: Palm Island, Miami, Florida
Message:
Suzie said, 'I heard he gave it free of charge for an aids hospice'
Interesting response. Suzie, may be a premie trying to spread a good word propagating the giving & humantarian side of GMJ.
I think 'Suzie' was being very obviously sarcastic.
get a proper english life J.W. maybe u could do Something A liTtle More productive with your time otheR thaN gossip&&
Hello? What's so "proper" about an "English" life, and why should I get one? Sorry this site upsets you so much. Pray tell, is it hitting a nerve?
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Date: Wed, Feb 11, 1998 at 19:23:23 (EST)
Poster: VP
Email:
To: Everyone
Subject: Song
Message:
Who sang this song:
"Our father has come to lead us along the path of perfection.
He has come to make us understand why we're alive.
He is pure and his love is deeper than the ocean.
He is taking control and making us all one.
Please Please Please Teach me devotion
Marharaji Please show me
I'm ready to start..."
I can't remember the rest of it and I may not have the words right here either. (Hope I didn't just make someone ill). I used to love this song.
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Date: Wed, Feb 11, 1998 at 19:29:37 (EST)
Poster: CD
Email:
To: VP
Subject: Re: Song
Message:
Title: Teach Me Devotion
It was just redone with M's daughter singing.
It is on the recent Downpour CD.
The title song Downpour is quite a good musical number to dance to.
"In the downpour of the holy name
The divine colors began to rain"
CD
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Date: Wed, Feb 11, 1998 at 19:32:23 (EST)
Poster: VP
Email:
To: CD
Subject: Re: Song
Message:
Title: Teach Me Devotion
It was just redone with M's daughter singing.
It is on the recent Downpour CD.
The title song Downpour is quite a good musical number to dance to.
'In the downpour of the holy name
The divine colors began to rain'
CD
Thanks! A little trivia- do you or anyone know who used to sing it in the 70's?
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Date: Wed, Feb 11, 1998 at 19:36:08 (EST)
Poster: CD
Email:
To: VP
Subject: Re: Song
Message:
I think Kim did.
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Date: Wed, Feb 11, 1998 at 19:47:52 (EST)
Poster: Joy
Email:
To: CD
Subject: Re: Song
Message:
Kim Fields and One Foundation used to sing that song. It was really beautiful (too bad it's so misdirected). And Gurucharnanand and a band of mahatmas he put together used to sing that Downpour of the Holy Name song, particularly around Holi. I liked it a lot and still sometimes chant parts of it (though not with M in mind!) A lot of the songs sung at programs were very beautiful, and really helped increase the whole devotional aspect. Music's a powerful medium.
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Date: Wed, Feb 11, 1998 at 19:58:06 (EST)
Poster: lg
Email:
To: VP
Subject: Re: Song
Message:
Title: Teach Me Devotion
It was just redone with M's daughter singing.
It is on the recent Downpour CD.
The title song Downpour is quite a good musical number to dance to.
'In the downpour of the holy name
The divine colors began to rain'
CD
Thanks! A little trivia- do you or anyone know who used to sing it in the 70's?
In the late 70's their was a band (a group of premie) that used to play at Holi and Guru Puja, and the lead singer (a female) was singing that song. I don't remember her name or the name of the band. Sorry.
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Date: Wed, Feb 11, 1998 at 21:12:43 (EST)
Poster: Selena
Email:
To: VP
Subject: Re: Song lyrics continued (Re: Song)
Message:
Who sang this song:
'Our father has come to lead us along the path of perfection.
He has come to make us understand why we're alive.
He is pure and his love is deeper than the ocean.
He is taking control and making us all one.
Please Please Please Teach me devotion
Marharaji Please show me
I'm ready to start...'
I can't remember the rest of it and I may not have the words right here either. (Hope I didn't just make someone ill). I used to love this song.
....
I can see that your love is
deeper than the ocean
Come and take control
And make us all one
starts to get a little scary with that verse, methinks.
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Date: Wed, Feb 11, 1998 at 21:50:57 (EST)
Poster: VP
Email:
To: Selena
Subject: Re: Song lyrics continued (Re: Song)
Message:
Who sang this song:
'Our father has come to lead us along the path of perfection.
He has come to make us understand why we're alive.
He is pure and his love is deeper than the ocean.
He is taking control and making us all one.
Please Please Please Teach me devotion
Marharaji Please show me
I'm ready to start...'
I can't remember the rest of it and I may not have the words right here either. (Hope I didn't just make someone ill). I used to love this song.
....
I can see that your love is
deeper than the ocean
Come and take control
And make us all one
starts to get a little scary with that verse, methinks.
Joy, I agree that when you think of that song in the context of M, the words are scary. When I remove the word "Maharaji"and just think about God, the real creator of everything then I think that it is still a beautiful song. Okay, it still has the devotion and the control thing in there. I guess I mainly liked the tune and they way that it was sung with such love from the heart. Yeah, the sound of love- that's why I really liked it.
Thanks, everyone for the information! Hey, CD, where does one go to purchase EV music? Just curious. Do they still print "And it is Divine". I am behind the times.
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Date: Wed, Feb 11, 1998 at 21:55:46 (EST)
Poster: VP
Email:
To: Selena
Subject: Re: Song lyrics continued (Re: Song)
Message:
Who sang this song:
'Our father has come to lead us along the path of perfection.
He has come to make us understand why we're alive.
He is pure and his love is deeper than the ocean.
He is taking control and making us all one.
Please Please Please Teach me devotion
Marharaji Please show me
I'm ready to start...'
I can't remember the rest of it and I may not have the words right here either. (Hope I didn't just make someone ill). I used to love this song.
....
I can see that your love is
deeper than the ocean
Come and take control
And make us all one
starts to get a little scary with that verse, methinks.
Joy, I agree that when you think of that song in the context of M, the words are scary. When I remove the word 'Maharaji'and just think about God, the real creator of everything then I think that it is still a beautiful song. Okay, it still has the devotion and the control thing in there. I guess I mainly liked the tune and they way that it was sung with such love from the heart. Yeah, the sound of love- that's why I really liked it.
Thanks, everyone for the information! Hey, CD, where does one go to purchase EV music? Just curious. Do they still print 'And it is Divine'. I am behind the times.
Oops! Sorry, Selena! I accidently typed Joy's name by mistake in that last post. Thanks for the rest of the lyrics. VP
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Date: Wed, Feb 11, 1998 at 22:51:52 (EST)
Poster: CD
Email:
To: VP
Subject: Re: Song lyrics continued (Re: Song)
Message:
> Hey, CD, where does one go to purchase EV music?
> Just curious. Do they still print 'And it is Divine'.
VP,
Music can be bought through Visions.
There are about 4 or 5 music CDs available at the moment.
No 'And it is Divine'.
There was an interesting 25 year edition of the 'Divine Times' newspaper at the 1996 25 year anniversary event.
Some very interesting historic stories in that issue.
I think I was mistaken and Kim stills sings Teach Me Devotion on the Downpour CD that came out a couple years back.
His daughter has sung it at Long Beach events.
She has also done 'Spread This Knowledge'.
CD
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Date: Wed, Feb 11, 1998 at 22:58:38 (EST)
Poster: VP
Email:
To: CD
Subject: Re: Song lyrics continued (Re: Song)
Message:
> Hey, CD, where does one go to purchase EV music?
> Just curious. Do they still print 'And it is Divine'.
VP,
Music can be bought through Visions.
There are about 4 or 5 music CDs available at the moment.
No 'And it is Divine'.
There was an interesting 25 year edition of the 'Divine Times' newspaper at the 1996 25 year anniversary event.
Some very interesting historic stories in that issue.
I think I was mistaken and Kim stills sings Teach Me Devotion on the Downpour CD that came out a couple years back.
His daughter has sung it at Long Beach events.
She has also done 'Spread This Knowledge'.
CD
CD- What is Visions? Do you mean Visions International? Do you order these through the mail or is there a catalog?
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Date: Wed, Feb 11, 1998 at 23:10:27 (EST)
Poster: CD
Email:
To: VP
Subject: Re: Song lyrics continued (Re: Song)
Message:
>CD- What is Visions? Do you mean Visions International? Do you order these through the mail or is there a catalog?
VP,
Visions International.
You can order by phone or fax.
They have a small catalog.
I buy the stuff and like it.
If you want the phone number send me email.
CD
webmaster@cdickey.com
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Date: Wed, Feb 11, 1998 at 23:15:02 (EST)
Poster: VP
Email:
To: CD
Subject: Visions Catalog (Re: Song)
Message:
>CD- What is Visions? Do you mean Visions International? Do you order these through the mail or is there a catalog?
VP,
Visions International.
You can order by phone or fax.
They have a small catalog.
I buy the stuff and like it.
If you want the phone number send me email.
CD
webmaster@cdickey.com
I am interested, but no can do on the E-mail. ( I'm anonymous, you know.) Why not post the phone number here? Other people may be interested, too.
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Date: Wed, Feb 11, 1998 at 23:18:54 (EST)
Poster: CD
Email:
To: VP
Subject: Re: Visions Catalog (Re: Song)
Message:
>I am interested, but no can do on the E-mail. ( I'm anonymous, you know.)
Oh please! Are you special?
>Why not post the phone number here? Other people may be interested, too.
Katie has the number.
CD
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Date: Wed, Feb 11, 1998 at 23:22:36 (EST)
Poster: VP
Email:
To: CD
Subject: Re: Visions Catalog (Re: Song)
Message:
>I am interested, but no can do on the E-mail. ( I'm anonymous, you know.)
Oh please! Are you special?
>Why not post the phone number here? Other people may be interested, too.
Katie has the number.
CD
Yes, I am as special as you or anyone else on here.
That said, why are you suddenly getting nasty with me? We were getting along so beautifully.
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Date: Wed, Feb 11, 1998 at 23:36:00 (EST)
Poster: CD
Email:
To: VP
Subject: Re: Visions Catalog (Re: Song)
Message:
>That said, why are you suddenly getting nasty with me? We were getting along so beautifully.
VP,
Because you don't play fair - g.
I posted my email in a previous message to supply the requested information and am perfectly willing to help out.
The perception of 'nasty' is just an unfortunate consequence of non-verbal communication.
You have been led astray by an ambiguity.
CD
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Date: Wed, Feb 11, 1998 at 23:51:34 (EST)
Poster: VP
Email:
To: CD
Subject: End of pissing contest! (Re: Song)
Message:
>That said, why are you suddenly getting nasty with me? We were getting along so beautifully.
VP,
Because you don't play fair - g.
I posted my email in a previous message to supply the requested information and am perfectly willing to help out.
The perception of 'nasty' is just an unfortunate consequence of non-verbal communication.
You have been led astray by an ambiguity.
CD
Dear CD,
The non verbal comunication does have it's faults. It is extremely ambiguous without facial expressions, voice intonations, stresses, pitch and volume, etc. I do think when someone asks you, "Are you special?" it is a put-down that translates to written or verbal communication. I may be wrong and I apologize if this was not asked in a mean spirit.
I do thank you for the generous offer with your address and I am sorry that I do not wish to communicate by E-mail with anyone (not just you). That is unfortunate for me, because I will miss out on some things, but on the other hand it is my perogative not to give my name at this time, just as it is your perogative not to give out the number on the site.
I am not trying to play unfairly, I promise. I don't really know all of the rules in the first place. (Are there some?) I wasn't trying to trick you into revealing any secrets. Most of the people on this site probably have that number or access to it anyway, so I didn't think it was a big deal if you posted it. Honest. Fondly, VP
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Date: Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 13:34:26 (EST)
Poster: Selena
Email:
To: VP
Subject: Re: Song lyrics continued (Re: Song)
Message:
Who sang this song:
'Our father has come to lead us along the path of perfection.
He has come to make us understand why we're alive.
He is pure and his love is deeper than the ocean.
He is taking control and making us all one.
Please Please Please Teach me devotion
Marharaji Please show me
I'm ready to start...'
I can't remember the rest of it and I may not have the words right here either. (Hope I didn't just make someone ill). I used to love this song.
....
I can see that your love is
deeper than the ocean
Come and take control
And make us all one
starts to get a little scary with that verse, methinks.
Joy, I agree that when you think of that song in the context of M, the words are scary. When I remove the word 'Maharaji'and just think about God, the real creator of everything then I think that it is still a beautiful song. Okay, it still has the devotion and the control thing in there. I guess I mainly liked the tune and they way that it was sung with such love from the heart. Yeah, the sound of love- that's why I really liked it.
Thanks, everyone for the information! Hey, CD, where does one go to purchase EV music? Just curious. Do they still print 'And it is Divine'. I am behind the times.
On that Simpsons episode where Homer joins the cult, after trying several ways to get him, they finally got an idea:
Let's use a good chat. People always enjoy a good chant.
Forgot what they used, something inane like 'mmmmmm floor pie' but, the point is, that's what that song reminds me of. A good chant to get people going. Sure it's beautiful and heartfelt and I had my husband teach me the guitar chords just a few days ago, but, it's still scary.
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Date: Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 14:25:53 (EST)
Poster: JW
Email:
To: Selena
Subject: Re: Song lyrics continued (Re: Song)
Message:
Who sang this song:
'Our father has come to lead us along the path of perfection.
He has come to make us understand why we're alive.
He is pure and his love is deeper than the ocean.
He is taking control and making us all one.
Please Please Please Teach me devotion
Marharaji Please show me
I'm ready to start...'
I can't remember the rest of it and I may not have the words right here either. (Hope I didn't just make someone ill). I used to love this song.
....
I can see that your love is
deeper than the ocean
Come and take control
And make us all one
starts to get a little scary with that verse, methinks.
Joy, I agree that when you think of that song in the context of M, the words are scary. When I remove the word 'Maharaji'and just think about God, the real creator of everything then I think that it is still a beautiful song. Okay, it still has the devotion and the control thing in there. I guess I mainly liked the tune and they way that it was sung with such love from the heart. Yeah, the sound of love- that's why I really liked it.
Thanks, everyone for the information! Hey, CD, where does one go to purchase EV music? Just curious. Do they still print 'And it is Divine'. I am behind the times.
On that Simpsons episode where Homer joins the cult, after trying several ways to get him, they finally got an idea:
Let's use a good chat. People always enjoy a good chant.
Forgot what they used, something inane like 'mmmmmm floor pie' but, the point is, that's what that song reminds me of. A good chant to get people going. Sure it's beautiful and heartfelt and I had my husband teach me the guitar chords just a few days ago, but, it's still scary.
Have you noticed that a lot of those premie songs, like this one, are in a minor key? That song "all night long" (sung by that initiator from Michigan names "Rich something" who, by the way, dumped M years ago) and "dance, dance dance" (sung by that other initiator from Philadelphia who looke oddly like an alien) are in minor keys too. I find that minor keyed music is harder to get out of your head. I'm not suggesting a conspiracy or anything, I just noticed that. Plus, the minor keys, like Gregorian Chant, are more "chant-like" than the major keys.
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Date: Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 14:56:23 (EST)
Poster: VP
Email:
To: JW
Subject: Minor key (Re: Song)
Message:
Who sang this song:
'Our father has come to lead us along the path of perfection.
He has come to make us understand why we're alive.
He is pure and his love is deeper than the ocean.
He is taking control and making us all one.
Please Please Please Teach me devotion
Marharaji Please show me
I'm ready to start...'
I can't remember the rest of it and I may not have the words right here either. (Hope I didn't just make someone ill). I used to love this song.
....
I can see that your love is
deeper than the ocean
Come and take control
And make us all one
starts to get a little scary with that verse, methinks.
Joy, I agree that when you think of that song in the context of M, the words are scary. When I remove the word 'Maharaji'and just think about God, the real creator of everything then I think that it is still a beautiful song. Okay, it still has the devotion and the control thing in there. I guess I mainly liked the tune and they way that it was sung with such love from the heart. Yeah, the sound of love- that's why I really liked it.
Thanks, everyone for the information! Hey, CD, where does one go to purchase EV music? Just curious. Do they still print 'And it is Divine'. I am behind the times.
On that Simpsons episode where Homer joins the cult, after trying several ways to get him, they finally got an idea:
Let's use a good chat. People always enjoy a good chant.
Forgot what they used, something inane like 'mmmmmm floor pie' but, the point is, that's what that song reminds me of. A good chant to get people going. Sure it's beautiful and heartfelt and I had my husband teach me the guitar chords just a few days ago, but, it's still scary.
Have you noticed that a lot of those premie songs, like this one, are in a minor key? That song 'all night long' (sung by that initiator from Michigan names 'Rich something' who, by the way, dumped M years ago) and 'dance, dance dance' (sung by that other initiator from Philadelphia who looke oddly like an alien) are in minor keys too. I find that minor keyed music is harder to get out of your head. I'm not suggesting a conspiracy or anything, I just noticed that. Plus, the minor keys, like Gregorian Chant, are more 'chant-like' than the major keys.
Many of the more haunting church hymns are in minor keys. Have you seen Phantom of the Opera? Weren't most of those songs also in minor keys?
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Date: Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 14:58:54 (EST)
Poster: VP
Email:
To: Selena
Subject: mmmmm floor pie (Re: Song)
Message:
Who sang this song:
'Our father has come to lead us along the path of perfection.
He has come to make us understand why we're alive.
He is pure and his love is deeper than the ocean.
He is taking control and making us all one.
Please Please Please Teach me devotion
Marharaji Please show me
I'm ready to start...'
I can't remember the rest of it and I may not have the words right here either. (Hope I didn't just make someone ill). I used to love this song.
....
I can see that your love is
deeper than the ocean
Come and take control
And make us all one
starts to get a little scary with that verse, methinks.
Joy, I agree that when you think of that song in the context of M, the words are scary. When I remove the word 'Maharaji'and just think about God, the real creator of everything then I think that it is still a beautiful song. Okay, it still has the devotion and the control thing in there. I guess I mainly liked the tune and they way that it was sung with such love from the heart. Yeah, the sound of love- that's why I really liked it.
Thanks, everyone for the information! Hey, CD, where does one go to purchase EV music? Just curious. Do they still print 'And it is Divine'. I am behind the times.
On that Simpsons episode where Homer joins the cult, after trying several ways to get him, they finally got an idea:
Let's use a good chat. People always enjoy a good chant.
Forgot what they used, something inane like 'mmmmmm floor pie' but, the point is, that's what that song reminds me of. A good chant to get people going. Sure it's beautiful and heartfelt and I had my husband teach me the guitar chords just a few days ago, but, it's still scary.
I am sorry that I missed that show. mmmmmmmmm floor pie- catchy!
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Date: Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 15:58:59 (EST)
Poster: Selana
Email:
To: VP
Subject: Re: mmmmm floor pie (Re: Song)
Message:
Hi VP,
It wasn't 'mmmmm floor pie', so you didn't miss that part, but it was a good episode. Oddly moral, somehow.
I am admittedly a Simpsons cultist. Much easier to admit to my boss and new friends than my odd past history with M.
So, I happen to know the floor pie thingy from another S episode, probably about a food binge or something.
I think the chant the cultists used to get Homer was sung to the tune of the old Batman TV series, and it went something like:
na na na na na na na na
FISHING!
over and over,etc..
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Date: Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 16:07:30 (EST)
Poster: Selena
Email:
To: JW
Subject: Re: Song lyrics continued (Re: Song)
Message:
Thanks, JW for pointing that out. Minor chords have always attracted me, even before premiedom. I think it resonates with our dark side. And, by dark side I don't mean negative, all ye lurking premies! and that type of music goes there. A lot of the new alternative music has minor chords.
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Date: Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 16:09:06 (EST)
Poster: VP
Email:
To: Selana
Subject: Re: mmmmm floor pie (Re: Song)
Message:
Hi VP,
It wasn't 'mmmmm floor pie', so you didn't miss that part, but it was a good episode. Oddly moral, somehow.
I am admittedly a Simpsons cultist. Much easier to admit to my boss and new friends than my odd past history with M.
So, I happen to know the floor pie thingy from another S episode, probably about a food binge or something.
I think the chant the cultists used to get Homer was sung to the tune of the old Batman TV series, and it went something like:
na na na na na na na na
FISHING!
over and over,etc..
Hi, Selena!
I think that mmmmmm floor pie will probably be my new mantra from now on. (It beats so hung-which has some sexual images in my humble opinion). VP
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Date: Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 16:33:40 (EST)
Poster: Selena
Email:
To: VP
Subject: Re: mmmmm floor pie (Re: Song)
Message:
Hi VP,
It wasn't 'mmmmm floor pie', so you didn't miss that part, but it was a good episode. Oddly moral, somehow.
I am admittedly a Simpsons cultist. Much easier to admit to my boss and new friends than my odd past history with M.
So, I happen to know the floor pie thingy from another S episode, probably about a food binge or something.
I think the chant the cultists used to get Homer was sung to the tune of the old Batman TV series, and it went something like:
na na na na na na na na
FISHING!
over and over,etc..
Hi, Selena!
I think that mmmmmm floor pie will probably be my new mantra from now on. (It beats so hung-which has some sexual images in my humble opinion). VP
Oh God, that was so funny!!!!
I had never thought of that.
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Date: Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 21:19:30 (EST)
Poster: Diver Dan
Email:
To: Selena
Subject: Re: mmmmm floor pie (Re: Song)
Message:
Hi VP,
It wasn't 'mmmmm floor pie', so you didn't miss that part, but it was a good episode. Oddly moral, somehow.
I am admittedly a Simpsons cultist. Much easier to admit to my boss and new friends than my odd past history with M.
So, I happen to know the floor pie thingy from another S episode, probably about a food binge or something.
I think the chant the cultists used to get Homer was sung to the tune of the old Batman TV series, and it went something like:
na na na na na na na na
FISHING!
over and over,etc..
Hi, Selena!
I think that mmmmmm floor pie will probably be my new mantra from now on. (It beats so hung-which has some sexual images in my humble opinion). VP
Oh God, that was so funny!!!!
I had never thought of that.
Hmmmm floor pie isn't that the ever so sweet nectar like experiance of a full prenam at the Holiest Lutus Feet!???
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Date: Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 22:25:56 (EST)
Poster: VP
Email:
To: Diver Dan
Subject: Re: mmmmm floor pie (Re: Song)
Message:
Hi VP,
It wasn't 'mmmmm floor pie', so you didn't miss that part, but it was a good episode. Oddly moral, somehow.
I am admittedly a Simpsons cultist. Much easier to admit to my boss and new friends than my odd past history with M.
So, I happen to know the floor pie thingy from another S episode, probably about a food binge or something.
I think the chant the cultists used to get Homer was sung to the tune of the old Batman TV series, and it went something like:
na na na na na na na na
FISHING!
over and over,etc..
Hi, Selena!
I think that mmmmmm floor pie will probably be my new mantra from now on. (It beats so hung-which has some sexual images in my humble opinion). VP
Oh God, that was so funny!!!!
I had never thought of that.
Hmmmm floor pie isn't that the ever so sweet nectar like experiance of a full prenam at the Holiest Lutus Feet!???
On second thought, maybe "so hung" wasn't so bad afterall...as long as one doesn't think of Big M while meditating on these words...
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Date: Thurs, Feb 12, 1998 at 23:47:25 (EST)
Poster: Selena
Email:
To: VP
Subject: Re: mmmmm floor pie (Re: Song)
Message:
eeiiuuuwwww! No danger of that. If I could have done that I'd still be into the whole scene
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Date: Fri, Feb 13, 1998 at 01:36:16 (EST)
Poster: Mickey the Phairisee
Email: mgdbach@ziplink.net
To: Selena
Subject: Re: Song lyrics continued (Re: Song)
Message:
Thanks, JW for pointing that out. Minor chords have always attracted me, even before premiedom. I think it resonates with our dark side. And, by dark side I don't mean negative, all ye lurking premies! and that type of music goes there. A lot of the new alternative music has minor chords.
Okay Kids, I'm gonna make a confession. I am an Episcopal Priest at an Episcopal seminary, so I probably do a lot more Gregorian chant than anyone on this site. I've found that when one chants the Psalms or the Canticles, it is a lot easier to remember them. It is a lot easier to memorize things when one uses Gregorian or Anglican Chant. Chant doesn't tap in to one's dark side, it taps into one's area for memory
Regards,
Michael
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Date: Fri, Feb 13, 1998 at 01:40:27 (EST)
Poster: Mickey the Pharisee
Email: mgdbach@ziplink.net
To: VP
Subject: Re: mmmmm floor pie (Re: Song)
Message:
Hi VP,
It wasn't 'mmmmm floor pie', so you didn't miss that part, but it was a good episode. Oddly moral, somehow.
I am admittedly a Simpsons cultist. Much easier to admit to my boss and new friends than my odd past history with M.
So, I happen to know the floor pie thingy from another S episode, probably about a food binge or something.
I think the chant the cultists used to get Homer was sung to the tune of the old Batman TV series, and it went something like:
na na na na na na na na
FISHING!
over and over,etc..
Hi, Selena!
I think that mmmmmm floor pie will probably be my new mantra from now on. (It beats so hung-which has some sexual images in my humble opinion). VP
Oh God, that was so funny!!!!
I had never thought of that.
Hmmmm floor pie isn't that the ever so sweet nectar like experiance of a full prenam at the Holiest Lutus Feet!???
On second thought, maybe 'so hung' wasn't so bad afterall...as long as one doesn't think of Big M while meditating on these words...
So-hung???? I thought it was Bohunk!!!!
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