Ex-Premie.Org |
Forum II Archive # 8 | |
From: Feb 28, 1998 |
To: Mar 7, 1998 |
Page: 1 Of: 5 |
Date: Sat, Mar 7, 1998 at 15:35:11 (EST)
Poster: Brian Email: brian@ex-premie.org To: Everyone Subject: Forum Reset in Progress Message: I'm about to begin downloading an archive, and then I will reset the forum. You should hold off posting until I'm done, or your post may be lost in the process. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Mar 7, 1998 at 14:24:18 (EST)
Poster: Katie Email: petkat@mail.trib.net To: Everyone Subject: Temporary Burnout Message: I just wanted to let everyone know that I need to take a short vacation from the forum. (I'm NOT going on vacation with Jim...). My e-mail address is petkat@mail.trib.net. I'll be back in a little while. Regards to all Katie Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Mar 7, 1998 at 09:04:59 (EST)
Poster: Brian Email: brian@ex-premie.org To: Everyone Subject: The Adventures of Spinnin' Marty Message: This arrived this morning as a Journeys Entry. This is a more fitting location for it. I receivd "Knowledge" on 3/1/75 and it is the single-most incredable experience I have ever known. My wife of 15 years is also a "Premie". We will let our 2 kids grow up with their peers before telling them of our experience. If anyone with half an IQ reads the personal experiences of people on these pages, they will realize that they have had a very meaningfull experience, but don't totally understand it. And if I ever catch anyone of you mother fuckers bad mouthing Maharaji I will stick my shoe so far up your ass your head will turn purple. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Mar 7, 1998 at 09:53:42 (EST)
Poster: Hey Marty! Email: bill burke To: Brian Subject: I listened to you many times and it's `ok (Re: The Adventures of Spinnin' Marty) Message: regular church people make it to church every sunday. Not so when the lord is alive and walking around. There IS a god and that god want's us to know about the reality of that. Someone who is confused and says they are the lord and are not, well, they need to wake up and come clean before god themselves. There is more to this story than evildoers on this website and rage at those that dare try to understand life as it really is. I have paid my dues big time and no one can say they attended more programs than me or went to more videos than me or meditated and loved more than me. The initial anger you have is not mine to have and your foot is better placed firmly on the ground. It was not easy for me to let go of what was a lifelong misunderstanding and dedication. I went to the mens prayer breakfast today and certainly those guys are not far away from the god. And my kids are 20, 17, 8 and 5 and they can know about the power of a good lord now and we can enjoy that. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Mar 7, 1998 at 10:29:59 (EST)
Poster: Rick Email: rtaraday@hotmail.com To: Brian Subject: Re: The Adventures of Spinnin' Marty Message: This arrived this morning as a Journeys Entry. This is a more fitting location for it. I receivd 'Knowledge' on 3/1/75 and it is the single-most incredable experience I have ever known. My wife of 15 years is also a 'Premie'. We will let our 2 kids grow up with their peers before telling them of our experience. If anyone with half an IQ reads the personal experiences of people on these pages, they will realize that they have had a very meaningfull experience, but don't totally understand it. And if I ever catch anyone of you mother fuckers bad mouthing Maharaji I will stick my shoe so far up your ass your head will turn purple. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Mar 7, 1998 at 10:30:49 (EST)
Poster: ex-mug Email: To: Brian Subject: Re: The Adventures of Spinnin' Marty Message: This arrived this morning as a Journeys Entry. This is a more fitting location for it. I receivd 'Knowledge' on 3/1/75 and it is the single-most incredable experience I have ever known. My wife of 15 years is also a 'Premie'. We will let our 2 kids grow up with their peers before telling them of our experience. If anyone with half an IQ reads the personal experiences of people on these pages, they will realize that they have had a very meaningfull experience, but don't totally understand it. And if I ever catch anyone of you mother fuckers bad mouthing Maharaji I will stick my shoe so far up your ass your head will turn purple. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Mar 7, 1998 at 11:17:07 (EST)
Poster: David Email: djulian@cix.compulink.co.uk To: Anyone Subject: Re: The Adventures of Spinnin' Marty Message: A devotee of the living God who is all love said: 'And if I ever catch anyone of you mother fuckers bad mouthing Maharaji I will stick my shoe so far up your ass your head will turn purple.' How wonderous is your love o Lord. Your devotees shine like stars in the heavens. I eagerly await the time when my children are old enough to understand such wonderful expressions of the divine! How full of grace and kindness are your devotees o Lord. Surely, they are a garland around your divine form. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Mar 7, 1998 at 11:35:15 (EST)
Poster: John Cavad Email: To: ex-mug Subject: Re: The Adventures of Spinnin' Marty Message: Marty, also wrote directly to me and commented on my "tails" in Jouneys. Who knows I may have known this guy since he lived not far from me. Marty thinks I haven't given GMJ a chance. I think eight years is a fair period of time to declare it more than a trial run, don't you? I'm sure Marty had a deep spiritual experience with GMJ. Like most of us, I did too, real or delusion, it appeared real to me at the time. But the price of all that fun was a bit too high for me. Education , life's experiences and logic dispells the darkness in my opinion. GMJ was never the light. He was the recreational drug that blinded me. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Mar 7, 1998 at 07:03:19 (EST)
Poster: chr Email: To: Everyone Subject: freedom of choice Message: Another ex-premie and I were recently talking to a currant premie who has seen this site and is horrified by its contents.She insists that we all had freedom of choice and that everything was always presented honestly,clearly, and with the utmost integrity by M-that he never forced,cajoled, or manipulated anybody into anything. My ex-premie friend and I believe that we were definitely manipulated and cajoled-ok so just maybe we weren't forced-that our freedom of choice and clarity were taken away and that we were not dealt with honestly and clearly.For example when I received K in 1973,I was studying for a degree at art school.Art and painting had been a deep and satisfying joy of mine since childhood.For 15 yrs after this I did not paint.I taught art in schools for a while,but the closest I came to expressing this aspect of myself was decorating the alter in the ashram and satsang hall and some cards from the community to M! Such was the effect M had on me,that there was no room for self expression or creativity - it all went in dedication to him.The premie claims this was my choice and there was nothing stopping me working at my art.Since leaving M in 1987 I have taken up painting again.It is now my profession and recent exhibitions in London and Paris, and an upcoming one in NY have been a validation of an ability I had thought was lost.I cant really say how my life would have been without M,but I do wonder what sort of free choice one has, when at the young age of 20 you become entangled in the sticky web of spiritual deceit offered by M. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Mar 7, 1998 at 12:42:33 (EST)
Poster: And On Anand Ji Email: aoa To: ---- Subject: Re: freedom of choice Message: Another ex-premie and I were recently talking to a currant premie who has seen this site and is horrified by its contents. She insists that we all had freedom of choice and that everything was always presented honestly, clearly, and with the utmost integrity by M-that he never forced, cajoled, or manipulated anybody into anything. My ex-premie friend and I believe that we were definitely manipulated and cajoled-ok so just maybe we weren't forced-that our freedom of choice and clarity were taken away and that we were not dealt with honestly and clearly. For example when I received K in 1973, I was studying for a degree at art school. Art and painting had been a deep and satisfying joy of mine since childhood.For 15 yrs after this I did not paint.I taught art in schools for a while, but the closest I came to expressing this aspect of myself was decorating the alter in the ashram and satsang hall and some cards from the community to M! Such was the effect M had on me, that there was no room for self expression or creativity - it all went in dedication to him. The premie claims this was my choice and there was nothing stopping me working at my art. Since leaving M in 1987 I have taken up painting again. It is now my profession and recent exhibitions in London and Paris, and an upcoming one in NY have been a validation of an ability I had thought was lost. I cant really say how my life would have been without M, but I do wonder what sort of free choice one has, when at the young age of 20 you become entangled in the sticky web of spiritual deceit offered by M. These are just my views -- I don't know; I'm working on my thoughts about all this. Please consider the foregoing a tentative-at-best theory, even where it uses more assertive language (that's just a simple artifact of my thinking and communication style). -Andonanandji I'd have to say that recently I've been framing this question not about M and Man, but about God and Man. The Universe's basic guarantee to you is that for each and every time you pick up a stone and throw it, it will go exactly where you throw it. There will be no intervention, by the Universe, on behalf of, for instance, your target (like when stoning someone to death). The Christ thing basically violates these laws of the Universe, and says that Christ can come and raise the dead (no fair, Christ -- that'd be cheating). That's what makes him god -- he cheats a little and intervenes the Universe and breaks it's otherwise immutable laws, separating consequence from action. Free will says your actions will always have a consistent consequence, for the most part. Where there is a departure from that, says the doctrine, is where your understanding of the linkage between action and consequence is a bit more muddy than you thought it was; witness Einstein's "new" discoveries earlier this century. He came up with new, more accurate consequences, to, for instance, the approximation that used to be Kepler's laws of motion. Einsteins's theories predicted a more accurate model than did Kepler's -- though Kepler's was pretty much the way it was, in his day. Determinism - the doctrine says, I think -- because nobody I read seriously proposes it in the strong sense of the term -- that you were going to do it anyway -- that it was all written in stone before you started (that time is false; that events don't unfold, they are observed but were already done before the observation took place). Most physicists agree on some things about this; at certain scales, the Universe (at least the mechanical aspects) appear to be reasonably deterministic; again, if I throw that rock at the person I am stoning to death, the outcome is more or less determined by the time I release the stone from my hand and it enters free travel through the air. Chaos theories, among other things, predict random intervening events such as a tree limb that falls at the right time and intercepts the stone, deflecting it from target. I guess I'm just making this all up -- I'm tired and I haven't been reading the usual discussions on this stuff as of late. Oh well. --- NO, I DON'T think you were coerced or co-opted. I think you and I were given what is called a bum steer, or more simply: bad advice. People follow bad advice every day. The question seems to be: at what point in his career was Maharaji certain enough of his own fraudulent complicity that it was high time he came clean and abandoned his role as satguru to those of us who believed in him? When was the correct time for him to renounce his ascendency to Shri Maharaji's (theoretical) place in the new panth? You and I cast aside advice from friends and family to stay the hell away from the goo roo. We thought we were smarter than them. We weren't. It's a gambler's ruin, and it's a well-worn path; not always in the arena of throwing in with a sois-disant messiah. We fucked up. Pity us. He was duplicitous. Shame on him. ---- Just remember that manipulation is an attempt to influence another's action. Nobody can manipulate you without your permission (e.g. surrender) but your permission may be freely given without the necessity of an experience to back it up -- surrender without authority that comes only from experience. That's two kinds of consent -- informed, and uniformed, as it were. If it were any other way, how would one gain new experiences? We always do things we know not the consequences of. That's why listening to elders and others with more experience in the field of endeavour can be so beneficial. Maharaji pretended to be an expert in the field of whatever, and the premies listened at his knee. Fine. Only -- Maharaji never had the necessary experience to back it up; he was making it up as he went along. That'd duplicitous, and in some areas of investigation, is a punishable offense, I would suppose. The sexual side of things in American law revolves around consent, informed consent, if I understand things correctly. The term "consenting adults" is constantly referred to. I would suggest that before one's 26th birthday (the usual age of the end of innocence or what is called adolescence one can not give informed consent to the likes of Maharaji -- and to some extent, to anyone else. There's even a good argument that says one shouldn't think of changing ones' basic family-taught religiousity before one's 40th birthday; one simply doesn't have the background for it. From the rough cut -- please disregard the inconsistencies here (e.g. take what you like and leave the rest -- take my advice: I don't use it anyway.) (what does he say here?) Toodle pip Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Mar 7, 1998 at 04:11:51 (EST)
Poster: gumby Email: To: Everyone Subject: Bummer... Message: What happens to an aspirant who cannot see? What happens to an aspirant who cannot hear? What happens to an aspirant who has no hands? Will they only be able to receive half-knowledge? Are they only half-graced? Should they only give half of themselves? Is there any premie out here who has enough courage to reflect on the following: Truth must stand on its own. Truth will survive any questioning, any scrutiny. Truth invites it. Why do you, who have two eyes refuse to see? Why do you, who have two ears refuse to hear? WAKE UP. See reality for what it is. Each and every one of you is a beautiful gift. BUT you are a gift of GOD, not of a rolly-polly opportunistic grown up child. Are you worshipping the creation or the Creator? Do you ever stop to give thanks to GOD? To give praise to GOD? You thank, praise, and worship another human being. WAKE UP, It is not too late. -gumby Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Mar 6, 1998 at 20:23:05 (EST)
Poster: observer Email: To: Scott T. Subject: congradulations Message: Scott, I just picked up below the answer to Katie's question. That is great news on successfully defending your dissertation. That is PhD.in history, if I saw correctly? Congradulations. Thank you, I did receive your e-mail concerning the lineage issue, and look forward to hearing from you as soon as you have the time to check out the book. Since Anon seems to have studied the lineage for some time, I hope he will go through some of the issues with me as well. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Mar 6, 1998 at 23:25:35 (EST)
Poster: Scott T. Email: To: observer Subject: Re: congradulations Message: Scott, I just picked up below the answer to Katie's question. That is great news on successfully defending your dissertation. That is PhD.in history, if I saw correctly? Congradulations. Thank you, I did receive your e-mail concerning the lineage issue, and look forward to hearing from you as soon as you have the time to check out the book. Since Anon seems to have studied the lineage for some time, I hope he will go through some of the issues with me as well. Observer: Thanks for the support. The degree is in Public Policy, but is effectively in Political Science. I did my research on campaign finance during the 1996 congressional elections. -Scott Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Mar 6, 1998 at 04:45:36 (EST)
Poster: David Email: djulian@cix.compulink.co.uk To: Everyone Subject: Mili does have a point Message: After writing my post below about a brick wall, I can sympathise with Mili and how he must feel about this forum. Think of someone you love and then imagine a web site dedicated to slagging them off. It would make you pretty angry. Imagine a forum where your best friend was ridiculed every day by many people. It would hurt. But then Maharaji has put himself in the firing line. Quite simply, one cannot make grandiose claims about being someone worthy of being worshipped and expect everybody to just let you do it. There's going to be a backlash. I think this is the fact that followers of Maharaji must understand. Something else which is a fact is that truth, by its very nature, must triumph in the end. If there are any premies here who are angry at the opposition to Maharaji, they should not worry. Because if Maharaji is the embodiment of truth, he cannot fail. Maharaji is not a schoolboy. He has by now, clearly decided upon the course of action he is to follow. If his followers believe in him then they can have complete faith that he will triumph against any opposition. If he does not win through, then surely that is indicitive of his status, i.e. he is no better than anyone else. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Mar 6, 1998 at 10:01:21 (EST)
Poster: John K. Email: To: David Subject: I propose a compromise (Re: Mili does have a point) Message: David: My heart goes out to all the premies who really do want to communicate with others on a little deeper level than simply listening to M's mindless videos, and yet are not ready for the truth as we express it here. I propose we have two forums. Just like M has one program for aspirants and one for the die hards. One forum (We could call it maybe Light X, or watered down X, Beginners X) would be for premies who want to begin the process of recovering their intelligence. On this forum we can keep everything nice and civilized, not call the guru any rude names, not express our long suppressed emotions about the whole experience, just deal with the facts. We would question specific things but in a very polite manner. The other forum is of course what we already have right here. It would stay the same and would be for the more advanced ex premies who want to really explore what following a guru has done to them and what that guru might really be all about. Thoughts? oops I guess that's not allowed in the guru world. You know where thoughts lead, that's right, to confusion. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Mar 6, 1998 at 10:27:05 (EST)
Poster: Scott T. Email: To: David Subject: Re: Mili does have a point Message: David: Regarding: If his followers believe in him then they can have complete faith that he will triumph against any opposition. If he does not win through, then surely that is indicative of his status, i.e. he is no better than anyone else. I understand what you mean by the last two paragraphs of your post, but isn't this just another way of saying "the end justifies the means?" After all, that standard would seem to legitimate and reinforce Hitler or Stalin at a certain point in their careers, when they seemed virtually invincible. It does not seem a very comforting standard from either point of view. My point is that if MJ "wins through" w/o answering the questions raised at this site it is no victory for anyone. -Scott Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Mar 6, 1998 at 11:51:21 (EST)
Poster: Mili Email: mili@cheerful.com To: John K. Subject: Re: I propose a compromise (Re: Mili does have a point) Message: David: My heart goes out to all the premies who really do want to communicate with others on a little deeper level than simply listening to M's mindless videos, and yet are not ready for the truth as we express it here. I propose we have two forums. Just like M has one program for aspirants and one for the die hards. One forum (We could call it maybe Light X, or watered down X, Beginners X) would be for premies who want to begin the process of recovering their intelligence. On this forum we can keep everything nice and civilized, not call the guru any rude names, not express our long suppressed emotions about the whole experience, just deal with the facts. We would question specific things but in a very polite manner. The other forum is of course what we already have right here. It would stay the same and would be for the more advanced ex premies who want to really explore what following a guru has done to them and what that guru might really be all about. Thoughts? oops I guess that's not allowed in the guru world. You know where thoughts lead, that's right, to confusion. Look, it is because I am thinking that I refuse to accept at face value the Bob Mishler interview and the outrageous rumours stated elsewhere on this forum and site. Have you ever thought about that? Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Mar 6, 1998 at 12:11:08 (EST)
Poster: John K. Email: To: Mili Subject: From the Book of John (Re: Mili does have a point) Message: Mili old buddy, it's been so long! You seem to mention the Bob Mishler interview quite frequently. I could not care less what Bob Mishler's experience was. I believe most x's relate their own experiences. Actually in the mid 70's when Bob "followed his MIND away from M" I like a good premie believed he must have been totally confused and deluded and was not to be trusted. However, the Bob Mishler interview did actually happen on the radio, right? What's wrong with including it on this web site? He was very very close to M for years. What's so terrible about hearing his viewpoint? Oh, let me guess...could it be because he did not have the same experience that you have had? Is that it? So, any contrary opinions to yours should not be represented? Mili, you still love your spiritual master. Fine, love him till your last breath leaves your body. Go for it. I have no problem with your loving whoever you want to love. I know it must hurt to hear that others don't love him the way you do. But, that's life in the big bad world. I have used this analogy before, and I hate to use it again, but... I love fruitcake. Most people don't. They have even mocked me for my love of fruitcake. They have ridiculed me, they have belittled me. they have dragged my name through the mud and mire. Now, it's true, there is no web site devoted to how awful fruit cake is, but trust me if there was, I would not go to it. Actually, there may be one. But I will never ever go look for it. Because my love for fruitcake is real, and I don't care what others feel about it. Those who have ears let them hear. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Mar 6, 1998 at 12:13:24 (EST)
Poster: Katie Email: petkat@mail.trib.net To: Mili Subject: Bob Mishler (Re: Mili does have a point) Message: Look, it is because I am thinking that I refuse to accept at face value the Bob Mishler interview and the outrageous rumours stated elsewhere on this forum and site. Have you ever thought about that? Dear Mili - Why do you have a problem with the Bob Mishler interview? Is it that you think he never actually said those thing (it's faked)? Or is it because of what he says? I think that you are going to have to accept the fact that Bob Mishler did give that interview and say those things. There are people on the site - even premies like op - who were around back then and remember the interview. There are people with TAPES of the interview. You could probably call the radio station and check the veracity of it. As far as what Mishler says in the the interview, and whether you should "accept it at face value" - it is his opinion and personal story, and I think can be accepted as that. I don't think he intended to speak for anyone except himself. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Mar 6, 1998 at 12:17:42 (EST)
Poster: Katie Email: petkat@Mail.trib.net To: John K. Subject: Re: I propose a compromise (Re: Mili does have a point) Message: Hi John - regarding the two forums. I'm not sure if you were serious, but it's been proposed before and never got off the ground (someone's got to do all the work, for one thing). I think that premies should be able to have their own forum. For 25 dollars they can get a forum like this one forever (as long as Paradise lasts). They can even password protect it to keep out the riff-raff. How about it, Mili? Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Mar 6, 1998 at 13:14:36 (EST)
Poster: Mili Email: mili@cheerful.com To: Katie Subject: Re: Bob Mishler (Re: Mili does have a point) Message: Look, it is because I am thinking that I refuse to accept at face value the Bob Mishler interview and the outrageous rumours stated elsewhere on this forum and site. Have you ever thought about that? Dear Mili - Why do you have a problem with the Bob Mishler interview? Is it that you think he never actually said those thing (it's faked)? Or is it because of what he says? I think that you are going to have to accept the fact that Bob Mishler did give that interview and say those things. There are people on the site - even premies like op - who were around back then and remember the interview. There are people with TAPES of the interview. You could probably call the radio station and check the veracity of it. As far as what Mishler says in the the interview, and whether you should 'accept it at face value' - it is his opinion and personal story, and I think can be accepted as that. I don't think he intended to speak for anyone except himself. Katie, Could it have been possible that Mishler was twisting things around his way? Is it possible that the interview presented here has been 'doctored' a little bit? What about the 'Uncle' rumor, the 'Mistress' rumor, the 'Gurucharanand Lover Boy' rumor, the ' Mili is Katie' rumor, etc. You see, it's not wise to believe in things people say at face value. In fact, it's being pretty gullible to do so. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Mar 6, 1998 at 13:18:54 (EST)
Poster: Mili Email: mili@cheerful.com To: Katie Subject: Re: I propose a compromise (Re: Mili does have a point) Message: Hi John - regarding the two forums. I'm not sure if you were serious, but it's been proposed before and never got off the ground (someone's got to do all the work, for one thing). I think that premies should be able to have their own forum. For 25 dollars they can get a forum like this one forever (as long as Paradise lasts). They can even password protect it to keep out the riff-raff. How about it, Mili? Katie, Why should it bother you if premies post here? If your opinions are so firmly based on the truth, a little criticism and open discussion can't hurt, right? Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Mar 6, 1998 at 13:36:22 (EST)
Poster: Katie Email: petkat@mail.trib.net To: Mili Subject: Re: I propose a compromise (Re: Mili does have a point) Message: Dear Mili - it certainly doesn't bother me if premies post here (as long as they are reasonably civil). Sometimes the premies who post on here get upset by the criticism of the ex-premies, that's all. You must know what I mean. It takes a certain amount of courage for a premie to post on this forum because they usually end up getting flamed pretty badly. Thus a lot of premies might not want to post on here, whereas they might post on a premie-only forum. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Mar 6, 1998 at 13:45:31 (EST)
Poster: Mili Email: mili@cheerful.com To: Katie Subject: Re: I propose a compromise (Re: Mili does have a point) Message: Dear Mili - it certainly doesn't bother me if premies post here (as long as they are reasonably civil). Sometimes the premies who post on here get upset by the criticism of the ex-premies, that's all. You must know what I mean. It takes a certain amount of courage for a premie to post on this forum because they usually end up getting flamed pretty badly. Thus a lot of premies might not want to post on here, whereas they might post on a premie-only forum. Katie, This is confidential (ha!ha!) but the way I heard it, one of the objections that Maharaji had to Premie.org was that we were 'running too exclusive a club'. Make of it what you wish. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Mar 6, 1998 at 14:03:02 (EST)
Poster: Katie Email: petkat@mail.trib.net To: Mili Subject: Re: Bob Mishler (Re: Mili does have a point) Message: Dear Mili - You asked: Could it have been possible that Mishler was twisting things around his way? Of course, because everyone, when speaking about their own personal experiences, relates things the way he or she sees them. You do it and I do it too. The connotations of the word "twisting" imply that you think he deliberately lied - I don't believe this is true. Is it possible that the interview presented here has been 'doctored' a little bit? Mili, it is pretty insulting to David and Brian and Jim (who have tapes of the interview) and whoever David paid to transcribe it to even imply that. If you think that the people who run this site (and they ARE just people, not threatening and powerful forces) would do that, why would you even want to post on here? What about the 'Uncle' rumor, the 'Mistress' rumor, the 'Gurucharanand Lover Boy' rumor, the ' Mili is Katie' rumor, etc. "Mili is Katie" was meant to be satirical - a joke by Jim, which deserved a joking response. I don't think that even Jim meant for you to take it seriously. As far as the Uncle, Mistress, and Gurucharanand (never heard that one) rumours, they're not on the web site, I don't personally repeat them, and I feel that they are irrelevant to any discussion of Maharaji since they involve the private lives of consenting adults. You see, it's not wise to believe in things people say at face value. In fact, it's being pretty gullible to do so. Well, you have to trust that somebody is telling the truth sometime, Mili. Otherwise you will become incredibly paranoid and isolated. Obviously you and I don't trust the same people, but I don't think that makes me gullible. For example, I don't trust Maharaji at all, and I don't take what he says at face value - in fact, I don't believe a lot of what he says because I've experienced it to be different. You apparently do trust Maharaji - does that make you gullible? I appreciate your concern, but I'm not just a follower. I have considered about my experiences as a premie, and I've listened to other people's experiences (both good and bad), before deciding what I personally believed and felt about Maharaji. I'm assuming that you've done the same. I don't agree with your beliefs, but I accept that you have them, and I accept that you're not just following blindly. I hope you can accept the same about me. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Mar 6, 1998 at 14:05:41 (EST)
Poster: Katie Email: To: Mili Subject: Re: I propose a compromise (Re: Mili does have a point) Message: Katie, This is confidential (ha!ha!) but the way I heard it, one of the objections that Maharaji had to Premie.org was that we were 'running too exclusive a club'. Make of it what you wish. What?! I don't know what to think about that...did you? Do you think he was upset because you wouldn't let Jim post on there?! (I'm joking, although perhaps Maharaji likes Jim - who knows?) Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Mar 6, 1998 at 14:38:51 (EST)
Poster: David Email: djulian@cix.compulink.co.uk To: Scott T. Subject: Re: Mili does have a point Message: I hear what you say regarding Hitler and Stalin winning through etc. Although they never actually achieved their final goals. Hitler never conquered Russia and Stalin had to settle with a compromise in Europe and couldn't "split the world" as he had hoped. By Maharaji winning through I mean successfully maintaining and increasing the size of his following. I used to have a vague notion that Maharaji wanted to spread his "knowledge" to the globe. In my mind he has already failed to win through. Rather than spread K to all people he has simply maintained a small following. Rather than pose as the saviour of mankind and God incarnate he has lost most of his original followers and is reliant on new people believing he is a Lord of some kind. I think Maharaji will have a hard time ahead because of the internet. As more and more people worldwide get on line so the other side of the Maharaji/knowledge coin will become more apparent to aspirants. It will become harder and harder for Maharaji to convince people that he's someone special. The meditation techniques will be on the web together with details of Maharaji's non-god status. Maharaji's Hindu philosophy is repugnant to most people. Such an unnatractive teaching of non attatchment to family and friends is bound to fail dismally. Only those who somehow get duped into the idea that he is God, will entertain such a philosophy. At least the Christians, Jews and Muslims hold the value of friendship and family ties in high regard, as do most athiests. I guess my original point can be summed up thus: If Maharaji really IS the one worthy of worship (pranam) and singing devotional songs to, like "Walk your golden way" and "Teach me devotion" then the ex-premies are out to lunch and the premies needn't worry about our net presence. Because then he really would be the Lord who only by his grace, by his mercy can we approach him. He would be all powerful and all compassionate, unconditional love. But my feeling is, that if Maharaji continues to try to propogate a myth, he will find it increasingly difficult in the years to come. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Mar 6, 1998 at 18:16:51 (EST)
Poster: And On Anand Ji Email: aoa To: ------ Subject: Re: Mili does have a point Message: After writing my post below about a brick wall, I can sympathise with Mili and how he must feel about this forum. Think of someone you love and then imagine a web site dedicated to slagging them off. It would make you pretty angry. Imagine a forum where your best friend was ridiculed every day by many people. It would hurt. But then Maharaji has put himself in the firing line. Quite simply, one cannot make grandiose claims about being someone worthy of being worshipped and expect everybody to just let you do it. There's going to be a backlash. I think this is the fact that followers of Maharaji must understand. Something else which is a fact is that truth, by its very nature, must triumph in the end. If there are any premies here who are angry at the opposition to Maharaji, they should not worry. Because if Maharaji is the embodiment of truth, he cannot fail. Maharaji is not a schoolboy. He has by now, clearly decided upon the course of action he is to follow. If his followers believe in him then they can have complete faith that he will triumph against any opposition. If he does not win through, then surely that is indicitive of his status, i.e. he is no better than anyone else. Oh well of course premies have rights, David. ---- To the theoretical base of practicing premies, but to no one practicing premie in particular, my thoughts are to consider making these speeches: quote And so do we ex-premie ji's, have rights. Maharaji is a public person, just as, for instance, Rush Limbaugh is a public person. Childish mewling about this being a site dedicated to slander and hate speech is clever (a little, at least, though not very) but it is only an argument; which in its turn will be answered eloquently by someone who sees it more clearly than I, why it must be so: that this site is biased towards a goal which can be loosely referred to as "The voicing of an opinion very different from that voiced in the halls of satsang, where it would, perforce, be forbidden or at least heard with grave misgivings." Would it please more, that ex-premies begin picketing outside known satsang halls and facilities, and otherwise drawing media attention to what goes on inside such places? Maharji Give Me My 22 Years Back How about that on picket signs, with each person painting the appropriate number of years onto their own sign, and mass-distributed so that all ex-premies carry a consistent message for further impact? There are certainly legal courses of action available to every ex-premie in every country on the planet, save a very few. That which you are looking for, is inside of you. -Maharaji That which you are not permitted to be looking for in the satsang hall, in words and opinions, is to be found here on ex-premie.org. -Andonanandji It is one of those 'that which you are looking for/not looking for' kinds of things, Premie-ji. Deal with it. Tough luck, sport. You weren't looking for this. However, we are. Ask around, if you doubt me personally, in my editorial use of the term "we". Ask around. unquote Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Mar 6, 1998 at 18:21:19 (EST)
Poster: And On Anand Ji Email: aoa To: oops / typo Subject: Re: Mili does have a point Message: Maharji Give Me My 22 Years Back Maharaji. Maharji is retired and has nothing to do with this. Sorry about the typo. Maharaji Give Me My 22 Years Back Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Mar 6, 1998 at 18:28:54 (EST)
Poster: Mili Email: mili@cheerful.com To: Katie Subject: Re: Bob Mishler (Re: Mili does have a point) Message: Look, it is because I am thinking that I refuse to accept at face value the Bob Mishler interview and the outrageous rumours stated elsewhere on this forum and site. Have you ever thought about that? Dear Mili - Why do you have a problem with the Bob Mishler interview? Is it that you think he never actually said those thing (it's faked)? Or is it because of what he says? I think that you are going to have to accept the fact that Bob Mishler did give that interview and say those things. There are people on the site - even premies like op - who were around back then and remember the interview. There are people with TAPES of the interview. You could probably call the radio station and check the veracity of it. As far as what Mishler says in the the interview, and whether you should 'accept it at face value' - it is his opinion and personal story, and I think can be accepted as that. I don't think he intended to speak for anyone except himself. Katie, Could it have been possible that Mishler was twisting things around his way? Is it possible that the interview presented here has been 'doctored' a little bit? What about the 'Uncle' rumor, the 'Mistress' rumor, the 'Gurucharanand Lover Boy' rumor, the ' Mili is Katie' rumor, etc. You see, it's not wise to believe in things people say at face value. In fact, it's being pretty gullible to do so. Katie, Sorry for the bold lettering - I didn't mean to shout, its just that I always seem to forget the end bold HTML code in the zest of the discussion! Sure, the Mishler interview might be transcribed correctly, but that doesn't mean that he was telling the whole truth and nothing but the truth there. Maybe he had some sort of deal with Mata Ji and/or Bal Bhagwan Ji to add fuel to the fire that they were stoking. Or maybe he was pissed off that his protege kid guru got out of hand and wasn't keen on taking orders from him so his yoga school business dreams, with the kid guru as a mascot, were disappearing up in smoke. Or maybe he had a crush on Durga Ji and was really jealous that she chose to marry Maharaji instead. Who knows? Do you see how easy it is to speculate? Do you realize how much colored by personal motives people's statements are? Oh yeah, another rumor I forgot to mention was the 'Maharaji is retiring' thing... You see, in light of all of this, I just happen to be a little bit skeptical - that's all. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Mar 6, 1998 at 18:36:48 (EST)
Poster: Mili Email: mili@cheerful.com To: And On Anand Ji Subject: Re: Mili does have a point Message: Time flies like an arrow and fruit flies like bananas! Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Mar 6, 1998 at 18:42:17 (EST)
Poster: nigel Email: nigel@redcrow.demon.co.uk To: David Subject: A prediction (Re: Mili does have a point) Message: I hear what you say regarding Hitler and Stalin winning through etc. Although they never actually achieved their final goals. Hitler never conquered Russia and Stalin had to settle with a compromise in Europe and couldn't 'split the world' as he had hoped. By Maharaji winning through I mean successfully maintaining and increasing the size of his following. I used to have a vague notion that Maharaji wanted to spread his 'knowledge' to the globe. In my mind he has already failed to win through. Rather than spread K to all people he has simply maintained a small following. Rather than pose as the saviour of mankind and God incarnate he has lost most of his original followers and is reliant on new people believing he is a Lord of some kind. I think Maharaji will have a hard time ahead because of the internet. As more and more people worldwide get on line so the other side of the Maharaji/knowledge coin will become more apparent to aspirants. It will become harder and harder for Maharaji to convince people that he's someone special. The meditation techniques will be on the web together with details of Maharaji's non-god status. Maharaji's Hindu philosophy is repugnant to most people. Such an unnatractive teaching of non attatchment to family and friends is bound to fail dismally. Only those who somehow get duped into the idea that he is God, will entertain such a philosophy. At least the Christians, Jews and Muslims hold the value of friendship and family ties in high regard, as do most athiests. I guess my original point can be summed up thus: If Maharaji really IS the one worthy of worship (pranam) and singing devotional songs to, like 'Walk your golden way' and 'Teach me devotion' then the ex-premies are out to lunch and the premies needn't worry about our net presence. Because then he really would be the Lord who only by his grace, by his mercy can we approach him. He would be all powerful and all compassionate, unconditional love. But my feeling is, that if Maharaji continues to try to propogate a myth, he will find it increasingly difficult in the years to come. I think you're right David. For what it is worth, I predict it will all be over for M within the next five years. In fact, assuming this forum is still around, I challenge any practising premie to meet me here on March 6th 2003 and tell me it ain't so... Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Mar 6, 1998 at 18:44:37 (EST)
Poster: Mr Ex Email: To: David Subject: Some news, by the way (Re: Mili does have a point) Message: Mr Prempal Rawat is into buying some new pieces of lands. 1/ near calcutta 2/ in Mauritius 3/ very likely in Ivory Coast ...... far from the Internet Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Mar 6, 1998 at 18:45:05 (EST)
Poster: Mr Ex Email: To: David Subject: Some news, by the way (Re: Mili does have a point) Message: Mr Prempal Rawat is into buying some new pieces of lands. 1/ near calcutta 2/ in Mauritius 3/ very likely in Ivory Coast ...... far from the Internet Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Mar 6, 1998 at 20:46:30 (EST)
Poster: And On Anand Ji Email: aoa To: Mili Subject: Re: Mili does have a point Message: Time flies like an arrow and fruit flies like bananas! Glad to be of service to you, Mili. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Mar 6, 1998 at 21:06:27 (EST)
Poster: And On Anand Ji Email: aoa To: ---- Subject: Re: From the Book of John (Re: Mili does have a point) Message: Fruitcake-eater. F.E.!!! -wink- Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Mar 6, 1998 at 21:16:29 (EST)
Poster: And On Anand Ji Email: aoa To: Katie Subject: Re: Bob Mishler (Re: Mili does have a point) Message: You apparently do trust Maharaji - does that make you gullible?Eventually, I suppose it does. Early on though, it'd be the other way around: I was gullible, so I trusted him. Gullibility is trusting without qualification -- maybe without thinking or analysis. I would fall for every trick as a kid. I was gullible, and made to feel very foolish and -- well -- gullible. Predatory persons would recognize this, and exploit it in me, until I was no longer quite so gullible. The tricks stopped shortly after; they went looking for someone more gullible than me. It was a painful learning experience, I can tell you. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Mar 6, 1998 at 21:27:20 (EST)
Poster: And On Anand Ji Email: aoa To: nigel Subject: Re: A prediction (Re: Mili does have a point) Message: I hear what you say regarding Hitler and Stalin winning through etc. Although they never actually achieved their final goals. Hitler never conquered Russia and Stalin had to settle with a compromise in Europe and couldn't 'split the world' as he had hoped. By Maharaji winning through I mean successfully maintaining and increasing the size of his following. I used to have a vague notion that Maharaji wanted to spread his 'knowledge' to the globe. In my mind he has already failed to win through. Rather than spread K to all people he has simply maintained a small following. Rather than pose as the saviour of mankind and God incarnate he has lost most of his original followers and is reliant on new people believing he is a Lord of some kind. I think Maharaji will have a hard time ahead because of the internet. As more and more people worldwide get on line so the other side of the Maharaji/knowledge coin will become more apparent to aspirants. It will become harder and harder for Maharaji to convince people that he's someone special. The meditation techniques will be on the web together with details of Maharaji's non-god status. Maharaji's Hindu philosophy is repugnant to most people. Such an unnatractive teaching of non attatchment to family and friends is bound to fail dismally. Only those who somehow get duped into the idea that he is God, will entertain such a philosophy. At least the Christians, Jews and Muslims hold the value of friendship and family ties in high regard, as do most athiests. I guess my original point can be summed up thus: If Maharaji really IS the one worthy of worship (pranam) and singing devotional songs to, like 'Walk your golden way' and 'Teach me devotion' then the ex-premies are out to lunch and the premies needn't worry about our net presence. Because then he really would be the Lord who only by his grace, by his mercy can we approach him. He would be all powerful and all compassionate, unconditional love. But my feeling is, that if Maharaji continues to try to propogate a myth, he will find it increasingly difficult in the years to come. I think you're right David. For what it is worth, I predict it will all be over for M within the next five years. In fact, assuming this forum is still around, I challenge any practising premie to meet me here on March 6th 2003 and tell me it ain't so... Yeah, he's washed up. Out of business! Foreclosed. The Internet is an awesome tool to resist oppression and exploitation. On the other hand -- a lot of people are disenfranchised and wouldn't know from Internet. That wasn't the primary demographic in times past . . . hmm. Well, everyone else would know, if not the dupes themselves. That'll have to do. Yes. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Mar 6, 1998 at 21:46:14 (EST)
Poster: And On Anand Ji Email: aoa To: Scott T. Subject: win through (Re: Mili does have a point) Message: David: Regarding: If his followers believe in him then they can have complete faith that he will triumph against any opposition. If he does not win through, then surely that is indicative of his status, i.e. he is no better than anyone else. I understand what you mean by the last two paragraphs of your post, but isn't this just another way of saying 'the end justifies the means?' After all, that standard would seem to legitimate and reinforce Hitler or Stalin at a certain point in their careers, when they seemed virtually invincible. It does not seem a very comforting standard from either point of view. My point is that if MJ 'wins through' w/o answering the questions raised at this site it is no victory for anyone. -Scott This is a really interesting thread. I'm not good with this kind of analysis, but I'll chime in where I can. Let's see -- I guess Hitlar was somewhat valid from within the context of his own regime, right? But outside it, a menace, so to speak. Enough of one that as history seems to have judged him, in the American point of view, the mere mention of him equates to repugnance, menace, madman, megalomaniac, genocidal, etc. Ultra negative summations of Hitlar routinely go unquestioned in ordinary conversation, and with good reason. He's probably the widest known example of what is closest to actual evil in this world. I don't believe in external evil (the devil) so I don't use the term evil except as ordinary synonym for other undesireable adjectives similar in scope. "Wrong" works fine, for me. Harm, destroy, are suitable synonyms. Evil seems to imply insanity and torment without cessation; the world is usually punctuated equillibrium -- horrors followed by ordinary living, even when it is very very hostile. I don't know. I guess here it is for me: can't begin to speculate on these things. But I don't have to -- I may draw upon fact of my own involved experiences, especially 1976-1979. I don't need comparisons, of any sort, in which to place the context. All I needed were people willing to take a definite stand, and that's happened -- they don't like it! They -- don't think there was any valid claim made in Houston in 1973. They were there, and did, then. Now they do not. Enough theys gather here, and you've got the makings of another validity context. See what I mean? Vote your conscience, and find others who will support it. The sincerity of your conscience determines the outcome, unless human society is a lot further off course than I suspect it really is. Win through reason, character, sanity, sagacity and wit. Out. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Mar 6, 1998 at 22:06:40 (EST)
Poster: CD Email: To: David Subject: Re: Mili does have a point Message: >Such an unnatractive teaching of non attatchment to family and friends is bound to fail dismally. How about a teaching that: All human beings share a common source of love deep inside. Out of control ideas create strong perceptions that divide people and obscure our ultimate potential. Not logic but only our deepest feeling can tell us what is really true in our search to understand what our life is about. We each have free will to make the choices on how to live our lives. There is a finite and an infinite. There is a mind and a heart. Our existence is the wonderous miracle. Best wishes, CD Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Mar 7, 1998 at 00:26:49 (EST)
Poster: Scott T. Email: To: nigel Subject: Re: A prediction (Re: Mili does have a point) Message: Nigel and David, et al: Regarding: I think you're right David. For what it is worth, I predict it will all be over for M within the next five years. In fact, assuming this forum is still around, I challenge any practising premie to meet me here on March 6th 2003 and tell me it ain't so... I think you may be underestimating the need to believe in something. Whether or not you are right depends upon what the alternatives are. I hate to say it, but it appears to me at least as likely that GMJ will get his act together on the Internet and start attracting people as never before. Even worse, someone might improve on his act and take over that niche. People need to believe that there is some good that is inviolate, just as they need oxygen. You may be able to hold your breath for awhile, but eventually you start gasping. Our super-rationalizing world just doesn't cut it. For close to a century socialism was a sort of secular version of this faith. Now that that's gone what has replaced it? What are the consequences of this global disillusionment? Ask Mili. I think it is appropriate to be concerned about this. -Scott Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Mar 7, 1998 at 00:48:58 (EST)
Poster: maharaji said 'there can BE Email: ** To: Katie Subject: No compromise!' (Re: Mili does have a point) Message: I feel confident that I know what he was talking about. All the posters there were the type that gushed old style devotion. Around the globe there are other people who got involved and feel embarassed by the gushers. He wants to appeal to a larger group than the premie web site was manifesting. Face it, premie .com and that other premie product web site were presented by some immature personality types (naturally), and prem rawat talks to other pilots and business types and fashions himself as a formidable man of the world. He is big time into pride and he is into being able to present himself as this well traveled pilot to other aviation types. Any of those guys that went to that site had to feel that it was nuts. maharji said in amaroo that he can't even read his own mail. I'm sure it makes him quesy to read those premie.com posts. He spoke about that other product website and said you shouldn't mix the knowledge info with that website product info. Maybe they never heard that video but he was very clear about it. They STILL have that going on at that web site with that every breath is owned by him quote by rawat. Deaf devotees. That was NOT confidential. Of course maharaji is running a damn exclusive club himself. You have to believe he is the lord master. Kiss his feet. Listen to enough videos that you can convince the insructors that you have no other religion (god) but maharaji before your breath is presented to you as a 'gift'. From the 'giver' of the 'gift', your life. I don't know where the (ha-ha) comes in on that one. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Mar 7, 1998 at 00:58:39 (EST)
Poster: post tra damos Email: ** To: And On Anand Ji Subject: A prediction (Re: Mili does have a point) Message: he is in 50 countries and the money is still rolling in. He has the pictures, the crown, and look at the premies that have been at this web site for a year, I don't know where cd is at but mili is not interested in processing data. fuzzbee will be around till the perks stop at least, and the programming is so intense that it is an insidious force that sucks up the innocent. Other forces will be brought to bear on the situation, but rawat will suck the blood off the victims till the day he dies. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Mar 7, 1998 at 01:03:36 (EST)
Poster: Well cd, is there a Email: ** To: CD Subject: god or not (Re: Mili does have a point) Message: And don't fergit cd, there is a god and maharaji wants you to believe he is the lord and he isn't. Kind of a big point to overlook. You and mili are not the new guys I don't talk to. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Mar 7, 1998 at 01:53:55 (EST)
Poster: CD Email: To: And On Anand Ji Subject: Re: Mili does have a point Message: Maharji Give Me My 22 Years Back Maharaji. Maharji is retired and has nothing to do with this. Sorry about the typo. Maharaji Give Me My 22 Years Back Lots of people want Mr. Wizard to send them back to a time when they were sucking a bottle of milk or a nice breast. Give something yourself instead of moaning and groping for handouts. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Mar 7, 1998 at 02:51:18 (EST)
Poster: David Email: djulian@cix.compulink.co.uk To: CD Subject: Maharaji is a danger (Re: Mili does have a point) Message: They are words Chris. I have done meditation. I disagree on this mind and heart thing. What's the big deal. Of course we've got a mind and a heart and they are both relevent. Maharaji seems to think he has a monopoly on the heart and that the mind is bad. What a crazy notion. I cannot even read M's satsang because it makes me feel sick. Why? Because it's insidious. He claims that love should all go to him. That is his message. I should know since I followed him for over a decade. A very damaging decade for me, I might add. My deepest feeling tells me that Maharaji is a danger. That's what my heart says. That Maharaji is quite despicable in his workings. I feel this from the heart. You write that all human beings share a common source of love inside. Do you think you are saying anything of any great import or something people don't already know? Try telling a East European refugee child, crying for its dead Mother, that it's life is a wonderous miracle. They're just words Chris. I have been there, I have listened and I have come to my own conclusions. You know, whatever the trip, there will always be someone who's into it. That's a fact I've learned in my 45 years. In Britain we have the Flat Earth Society where people believe the world is flat. Some people are bound to join that society. Our of 60 million or so Britons, some are going to think the earth is flat. Then in America you have the Star People who believe they've come from other planets. Out of your massive population they're bound to find followers. The same with Maharaji. Out of all the world's population, there's bound to be some people who believe in him. I think the difference between premies and ex-premies is that the ex-premies really DID listen to Maharaji's words and tried to act upon them. Many lives were ruined. The premies these days are just skating around the edge. They just think it's a fun thing to do. They haven't seen the other side of the coin yet. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Mar 7, 1998 at 05:24:14 (EST)
Poster: Mili Email: mili@cheerful.com To: David Subject: Re: Maharaji is a danger (Re: Mili does have a point) Message: They are words Chris. I have done meditation. I disagree on this mind and heart thing. What's the big deal. Of course we've got a mind and a heart and they are both relevent. Maharaji seems to think he has a monopoly on the heart and that the mind is bad. What a crazy notion. I cannot even read M's satsang because it makes me feel sick. Why? Because it's insidious. He claims that love should all go to him. That is his message. I should know since I followed him for over a decade. A very damaging decade for me, I might add. My deepest feeling tells me that Maharaji is a danger. That's what my heart says. That Maharaji is quite despicable in his workings. I feel this from the heart. You write that all human beings share a common source of love inside. Do you think you are saying anything of any great import or something people don't already know? Try telling a East European refugee child, crying for its dead Mother, that it's life is a wonderous miracle. They're just words Chris. I have been there, I have listened and I have come to my own conclusions. You know, whatever the trip, there will always be someone who's into it. That's a fact I've learned in my 45 years. In Britain we have the Flat Earth Society where people believe the world is flat. Some people are bound to join that society. Our of 60 million or so Britons, some are going to think the earth is flat. Then in America you have the Star People who believe they've come from other planets. Out of your massive population they're bound to find followers. The same with Maharaji. Out of all the world's population, there's bound to be some people who believe in him. I think the difference between premies and ex-premies is that the ex-premies really DID listen to Maharaji's words and tried to act upon them. Many lives were ruined. The premies these days are just skating around the edge. They just think it's a fun thing to do. They haven't seen the other side of the coin yet. David, Maybe you are being a little paranoid here. What do you mean by 'many lives were runied'? Many people were trying to realize God within thru meditation and travelling around the world to joyful festivals, instead of Keeping up with the Joneses. They caught up with the Joneses later. All that CD said is that the mind is finite, but that there is a path to the infinite thru the Heart (in this life, not when you die). This is what all the mystics, prophets and sages teach. Maharaji is certainly not the first one to talk about it. Or, are you attacking the whole idea that you can realize God in this life? Are you saying that all those monks and nuns living in monasteries, indulging in silent prayer in their little rooms, all those scientists who are desperately working to uncover the secrets of the Universe, all those doctors trying to preserve the lives of people who are going to die anyway, all those artists and musicians trying to steal a bit of Beauty from the Source of all beauty and perfection, are all wasting their lives? It is a fun thing to do. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Mar 7, 1998 at 05:50:41 (EST)
Poster: Anon Email: To: Mili Subject: Re: Bob Mishler (Re: Mili does have a point) Message: Mili,(or anyone else who's interested) If you are so skeptical to the veracity of all the 'rumours' and are going to continually suggest that they are false, on this website, why the hell don't you do the responsible thing and find out for yourself or shut the fuck up? I personally know that most of the rumours you persistently moan about are true. It's so tiresome to hear you repeatedly trashing the possibility that these reports are true just because it challenges your pretty little picture. If you had any guts or real wish to clear the matter up once and for all you'd go find out for yourself. If you wanna know about the mistress thing (for example) just go and ask any of the people that travel with Maharaji. You'll soon find out whether there is any truth in it. But no..You'll just carry on your whitewashing campaign with even less knowledge of the truth than those who publish the controversial things they have learned. Oh, and I believe all these things do reflect on the integrity and trustworthiness of the man..just like most sensible people would. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Mar 7, 1998 at 06:43:53 (EST)
Poster: Mili Email: mili@cheerful.com To: Anon Subject: Re: Bob Mishler (Re: Mili does have a point) Message: Mili,(or anyone else who's interested) If you are so skeptical to the veracity of all the 'rumours' and are going to continually suggest that they are false, on this website, why the hell don't you do the responsible thing and find out for yourself or shut the fuck up? I personally know that most of the rumours you persistently moan about are true. It's so tiresome to hear you repeatedly trashing the possibility that these reports are true just because it challenges your pretty little picture. If you had any guts or real wish to clear the matter up once and for all you'd go find out for yourself. If you wanna know about the mistress thing (for example) just go and ask any of the people that travel with Maharaji. You'll soon find out whether there is any truth in it. But no..You'll just carry on your whitewashing campaign with even less knowledge of the truth than those who publish the controversial things they have learned. Oh, and I believe all these things do reflect on the integrity and trustworthiness of the man..just like most sensible people would. 'Anon', I have much, much better things to do with my time than to follow up on some irrelevant crackpot wild rumors and speculations on the Internet. Regards... Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Mar 7, 1998 at 08:36:28 (EST)
Poster: Mili Email: mili@cheerful.com To: Anon Subject: Re: Bob Mishler (Re: Mili does have a point) Message: The responsible thing would be for you to verify the rumors before you publish them here, don't you think? What happens if someone presses you for proof? You are just indulging in a no-holds-barred smear campaign here. The thing is, its backfiring on you - some of the stuff here is so wild that it reveals everything else as a hoax. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Mar 7, 1998 at 09:31:36 (EST)
Poster: Hither to Email: ** To: Mili Subject: Yon (Re: Mili does have a point) Message: Doesn't look that way. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Mar 7, 1998 at 09:35:44 (EST)
Poster: Mishler is not the issue Email: ** To: Mili Subject: Re: Bob Mishler (Re: Mili does have a point) Message: I'm officially adding you to my list of those who just want to argue. I'm not here to enjoy the convincing game. If data is not being processed but just dismissed then what is there to talk about? Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Mar 7, 1998 at 12:57:18 (EST)
Poster: And On Anand Ji Email: aoa To: Mishler is not the issue Subject: Re: Bob Mishler (Re: Mili does have a point) Message: I'm officially adding you to my list of those who just want to argue. I'm not here to enjoy the convincing game. If data is not being processed but just dismissed then what is there to talk about? bingo /~there's a hole in my bucket, dear Liza /~ Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Mar 7, 1998 at 13:04:22 (EST)
Poster: And On Anand Ji Email: aoa To: Scott T. Subject: Re: A prediction (Re: Mili does have a point) Message: Nigel and David, et al: Regarding: I think you're right David. For what it is worth, I predict it will all be over for M within the next five years. In fact, assuming this forum is still around, I challenge any practising premie to meet me here on March 6th 2003 and tell me it ain't so... I think you may be underestimating the need to believe in something. Whether or not you are right depends upon what the alternatives are. I hate to say it, but it appears to me at least as likely that GMJ will get his act together on the Internet and start attracting people as never before. Even worse, someone might improve on his act and take over that niche. People need to believe that there is some good that is inviolate, just as they need oxygen. You may be able to hold your breath for awhile, but eventually you start gasping. Our super-rationalizing world just doesn't cut it. For close to a century socialism was a sort of secular version of this faith. Now that that's gone what has replaced it? What are the consequences of this global disillusionment? Ask Mili. I think it is appropriate to be concerned about this. -Scott Successorship is another matter. I think GMJ is going to go belly-up, and fast. He's a fucking alcoholic, remember? I'm much more concerned he's going to Jonestown and take a few premies with him. The coming century will have it's own charm -- messianic cults will probably be a minor key in a larger mess. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Mar 7, 1998 at 13:15:53 (EST)
Poster: And On Anand Ji Email: aoa To: David Subject: Re: Maharaji is a danger (Re: Mili does have a point) Message: [-- snip! --] Of course we've got a mind and a heart and they are both relevent. Maharaji seems to think he has a monopoly on the heart and that the mind is bad. What a crazy notion. I cannot even read M's satsang because it makes me feel sick. Why? Because it's insidious. [-- snip! --] Mind racing is pretty much a mainstream psychology concept nowadays, or getting there. It's a component of, perhaps, an obsessive/compulsive disorder. Some of the treatments for mind racing bear strong resemblance to meditation. Mind racing is an acute attack of the psyche upon itself. It's believing your own press -- it's getting overly, overly excited about something one has less control over than one would like. Mind racing is not:
Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Mar 7, 1998 at 13:19:15 (EST)
Poster: And On Anand Ji Email: aoa To: CD Subject: Re: Mili does have a point Message: Maharji Give Me My 22 Years Back Maharaji. Maharji is retired and has nothing to do with this. Sorry about the typo. Maharaji Give Me My 22 Years Back Lots of people want Mr. Wizard to send them back to a time when they were sucking a bottle of milk or a nice breast. Give something yourself instead of moaning and groping for handouts. Fuck you, CD. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Mar 7, 1998 at 13:35:08 (EST)
Poster: Katie Email: petkat@mail.trib.net To: CD Subject: Re: Mili does have a point Message: Chris - Anger is a necessary part of the healing process. Sometimes us ex-premies "run hot", as bbill has said. If AOAJi is still saying that in 22 more years, then I think you'd be entitled to say what you said to him. Otherwise, give him some time. Katie Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Mar 7, 1998 at 14:19:00 (EST)
Poster: David Email: djulian@cix.compulink.co.uk To: And On Anand Ji Subject: Re: Maharaji is a danger (Re: Mili does have a point) Message: That's interesting about the mind racing. You've put into words something which I guess is common knowledge. I think many of us suffer from mind racing from time to time. And yet trying to meditate out of it can be impossible. I would call it anxiety overload. I find talking things over helps most. You know, a good friend is worth a thousand counsellors. I thought when you first mentioned it that mind racing was a new event for the Olyimpics. But what about heart racing? Premies talk about the heart as if it is a perfect divine thing. Not so. Obsession could be called heart racing. Jealousy could be called heart racing. These are all aspects of human behavour. I have never met a premie who has risen above them. Least of all, Maharaji. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Mar 6, 1998 at 02:38:35 (EST)
Poster: gumby Email: To: Everyone Subject: Following instructions? Message: The foolowing URL: http://clearviewadvisors.com/spiritual.html#interactive has praise for Maharaji, including some words from Mili. I thought the order from m was to NOT interact on the WWW, or even use it? "Find the humanness that you have lost. Live. Exist. Breathe. It's not fear that we need to live by, but joy, hope." - Maharaji, World Wide Address 1995 In the 1970's a young boy came to America to teach Knowledge. His technique was then and still is now one of simplicity, devotion and peace. Teaching is natural for the boy guru. Although 1996 is his 25th Anniversary in the teaching of Knowledge in the USA, and 30 years of teaching Knowledge in India, the Maharaji still has that child within. This natural sweet spirit of innocence and simplicity may be acquired only by going within. Maharaji shares freely the techniques of Knowledge and of going within. Embracing this life. Premies that were before Maharaji in the 70's to receive Knowledge have been contacting us for a re-connection to the Master. It is with our pleasure to provide this information to Premies and Aspirants alike. Maharaji is a personal source of inspiration. We are very happy to know that Aspirants and Premies are interested in connecting and re establishing with Maharaji. Our hopes are that they will contact with us by meeting at video events and also by seeing Maharaji when and where he travels to. There are no words to describe about the joy of being there when Maharaji is teaching. To truly know who Maharaji is and to hear his message attend a video event and if possible try to be where he is appearing! Video events are world wide! for video events in your area email: M@clearviewadvisors.com for literature, videos, music please contact: Visions International - USA 805-496-8950 "What you learned today you should cherish. Take this Knowledge and make it flourish". Maharaji (Montreal - May 29,1996 Knowledge Session) -gumby Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Mar 6, 1998 at 02:58:46 (EST)
Poster: pokey Email: To: gumby Subject: Re: Following instructions? Message: To read what our own ex-premie webmaster was told about premies talking about knowledge on the internet, go to http://www.ex-premie.org/pages/calling.htm Keep in mind that premies have interpreted this in different ways - Clearview Advisors notwithstanding... Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Mar 6, 1998 at 12:56:54 (EST)
Poster: And On Anand Ji Email: aoa To: pokey Subject: Re: Following instructions? Message: To read what our own ex-premie webmaster was told about premies talking about knowledge on the internet, go to http://www.ex-premie.org/pages/calling.htm Keep in mind that premies have interpreted this in different ways - Clearview Advisors notwithstanding... There's new content on http://www.premie.org/. The source of the page also lists the content of the page as "jai satchitanand!" I'm not making this up. Who could? Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Mar 6, 1998 at 12:58:42 (EST)
Poster: aoa Email: aoa To: URL correction . . . hopefully Subject: Re: Following instructions? Message: www.premie.org Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Mar 6, 1998 at 13:00:28 (EST)
Poster: And On Anand Ji Email: aoa To: The People Subject: Re: Following instructions? Message: www.premie.org OK the above URL worked -- click on it to go to the premie.org web site. Don't worry -- it is laughably simplistic. Boo! Did I scare you? (Doh!) Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Mar 6, 1998 at 13:44:16 (EST)
Poster: Hi C Email: bb To: And On Anand Ji Subject: Re: Following instructions? Message: they forgot to mention that the breath is owned by maharaji. That this 'gift' is maharaji's little creation to give you. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Mar 6, 1998 at 13:47:49 (EST)
Poster: And On Anand Ji Email: aoa To: Hi C Subject: Re: Following instructions? Message: they forgot to mention that the breath is owned by maharaji. That this 'gift' is maharaji's little creation to give you. I just want to know if you get fries with that. Or a salad. Bill -- call me sometime. My number's in the Hartford book. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Mar 6, 1998 at 13:57:41 (EST)
Poster: John K. Email: To: And On Anand Ji Subject: A very small joke (Re: Following instructions?) Message: "My number's in the Hartford book." Would that be under Ji? or Anand? Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Mar 6, 1998 at 14:02:50 (EST)
Poster: And On Anand Ji Email: aoa To: John K. Subject: Re: A very small joke (Re: Following instructions?) Message: 'My number's in the Hartford book.' Would that be under Ji? or Anand? Heh. Ji, Andonanand, Mr. The words float about an inch above the page, when you open the phone book. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Mar 6, 1998 at 17:24:39 (EST)
Poster: CD Email: To: And On Anand Ji Subject: Re: Following instructions? Message: No fright here. You did demonstrate how well ex-premies using the mind to full potential can DO hyperlinks. Very impressive - g. CD Robots can search the web too Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Mar 6, 1998 at 17:25:11 (EST)
Poster: CD Email: To: And On Anand Ji Subject: Re: Following instructions? Message: No fright here. You did demonstrate how well ex-premies using the mind to full potential can DO hyperlinks. Very impressive - g. CD Robots can search the web too Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Mar 6, 1998 at 20:17:00 (EST)
Poster: Mickey the Pharisee Email: mgdbach@ziplink.net To: aoa Subject: Re: Following instructions? Message: www.premie.org Geez, that was boring!!! Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Mar 6, 1998 at 20:49:07 (EST)
Poster: no text Email: aoa To: ---- Subject: Re: Following instructions? Cult on the dotted line (Re: Following instructions?) Message: no text Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 5, 1998 at 19:21:42 (EST)
Poster: observer Email: To: Everyone Subject: two facts Message: The uncle statement was made at least two times by Maharaji in public, I believe at least 8 years appart. The first time I heard it he described the following situation in some detail: He went to a family reunion party of his wife's family. He was not keen on going anyway. At the party one of his in laws through marriage sort of walked up to Maharaji, somehow introducing themself, saying that Maharaji was his uncle. Maharaji relates that he replied something like, "I'm not your uncle". The next time I heard this "I am not your uncle" was many years later, but without the long story, only something like, "once I told this person, 'I am not your uncle'" and then so on and so on. I assumed the second case was taken from the first story. I don't know anything else about this. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 5, 1998 at 20:12:00 (EST)
Poster: Joy Email: To: observer Subject: Re: two facts Message: I think this gossip about M being Navlata's father is kind of strange, and, unless there is incontrovertible evidence to support it, shouldn't be indulged in. The only person who could really confirm or deny this is Claudia. Unless someone really has some hard facts about this, I don't think we should be discussing it on the site, it kind of leaves a bad taste in my mouth. How would we all like someone saying something like that about a member of OUR families? Just because M is fair game on this site due to what he did to us (and continues to do to others), I don't think innocent people should be brought into it. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 5, 1998 at 20:46:07 (EST)
Poster: Katie Email: To: Joy Subject: Re: two facts Message: I agree with Joy, and as I said below, despite whatever might have happened there IS at least one completely innocent person who could be harmed by the gossip. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 5, 1998 at 21:31:19 (EST)
Poster: JW Email: To: Katie Subject: Re: two facts Message: And besides, who the hell cares? Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 5, 1998 at 22:23:19 (EST)
Poster: Rick Email: rtaraday@hotmail.com To: Everyone Subject: Re: two facts Message: I agree with Joy, Katie, and JW. Sticking with provable facts is the best policy with innocent and guilty parties. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Mar 6, 1998 at 12:09:38 (EST)
Poster: Mr Ex Email: To: Rick Subject: Stick to facts ! (Re: two facts) Message: If you stick to facts, what I transcribed a few days ago ahs been duplicated on thousands of audio tapes, video tapes, and tens of thousands of premies and aspirants have listened to it. My idea is that that type of statement deserves some kind of clarification from 'our side'. The harmful person is and has been Mr Prempal Rawat. He has been hurting badly many people, including people in his family. I know quite some stories about his own children, of the same type, and worse. If mr prempal rawat speaks about them in public, I think it deserves some comments ..... IMHO. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Mar 6, 1998 at 13:34:09 (EST)
Poster: Rick Email: rtaraday@hotmail.com To: Mr Ex Subject: Re: Stick to facts ! (Re: two facts) Message: If you stick to facts, what I transcribed a few days ago ahs been duplicated on thousands of audio tapes, video tapes, and tens of thousands of premies and aspirants have listened to it. My idea is that that type of statement deserves some kind of clarification from 'our side'. The harmful person is and has been Mr Prempal Rawat. He has been hurting badly many people, including people in his family. I know quite some stories about his own children, of the same type, and worse. If mr prempal rawat speaks about them in public, I think it deserves some comments ..... IMHO. I'd agree that statements transcribed from maharaji's satsang qualify as facts in themselves. But I wasn't convinced from the material I read that maharaji is the child's father, or that he was implying that. It seems more likely he would hide it, if it were true. Maharaji definitely owes lots of explaining, but I'm not sure he owes us an explanation about that. If the allegations are true, he'd owe an explanation to his family. It might support his dishonesty in regards to how we were duped, but other than that I don't see the connection. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Mar 6, 1998 at 13:59:58 (EST)
Poster: And On Anand Ji Email: aoa To: ---- Subject: Re: Stick to facts ! (Re: two facts) Message: If you stick to facts, what I transcribed a few days ago ahs been duplicated on thousands of audio tapes, video tapes, and tens of thousands of premies and aspirants have listened to it. My idea is that that type of statement deserves some kind of clarification from 'our side'. The harmful person is and has been Mr Prempal Rawat. He has been hurting badly many people, including people in his family. I know quite some stories about his own children, of the same type, and worse. If mr prempal rawat speaks about them in public, I think it deserves some comments ..... IMHO. I'd agree that statements transcribed from maharaji's satsang qualify as facts in themselves. But I wasn't convinced from the material I read that maharaji is the child's father, or that he was implying that. It seems more likely he would hide it, if it were true. Maharaji definitely owes lots of explaining, but I'm not sure he owes us an explanation about that. If the allegations are true, he'd owe an explanation to his family. It might support his dishonesty in regards to how we were duped, but other than that I don't see the connection. I think an innuendo-laden discussion and speculation dilutes the validity of this website, overall. I perceive my reasons here as twofold: to work out my own issues with Maharaji and his storybook nonsense dogma, rituals, agya -- and second, to spread the word that there are folks who are freeing themselves from the trappings of a Maharaji ministry; folks who are willing to talk about it from another (seemingly objective) viewpoint. Folks willing to corroborate each others' stories. Folks sorry for their part in the ugly mess of it. Folks unafraid to make public speech about it. Indulging in sensational criticism and speculation doesn't further these goals for me, so I don't. I also don't secretly harbor assent to the innuendo -- it might play well for those few premies who were, perhaps, sexually abused by M or his initiators -- I wasn't among them; no premie ever sexually abused me, nor M, nor his family or initators, etc. There was nothing like that going on in my experience of M's world. The people who have resentments along those lines would be better to discuss them openly, here or where it is safe for them to do so. This other stuff is ugly; It is an ill wind that blows no-one no good. I am not morally superior to anyone. In fact, I have some vulgar petty jealousy, of functional people, to work out -- people who hold regular jobs, have families, fulfilling relationships. I used to think I was above them. Now I know, for sure -- I have a heartfelt desire to be more like them, and join in life's banquet. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Mar 6, 1998 at 14:46:03 (EST)
Poster: Stick it to Email: bb To: And On Anand Ji Subject: the saps. So doith the lord (Re: two facts) Message: In realizing the actual nature of thier hindu guru, the people of the Kripalu institute confronted thier guy with the things they saw and heard about. In dethroning the lord of the universe, things I saw and heard from very good premie sources are certainly fair game for addressing. maharaji's drinking and evidence of his greed and rage and mistresses and flat out lying and his using tear as a controlling tool are all fair game. I am not in existence to protect him from himself anymore, or to cover up for him at all. To him there were no rules because he was the lord and his makeup to cover his freckles and facial marks is just one more symptom of his covering up reality with a false image. I have photos of him in blue eyeliner. Someone bleats 'so what'? I say it all counts in seeing all the parts of the lord of the universe story. I could say to anon, well anon, prove maharaji said what you heard when he got that new car. If you can't prove it it is not a fair offering to let us know his character. And yet it IS yet another confirmation from another source that his character is what it is. Kitty kelleys books on sinatra and the royals and whomever are all heresay to some extent but they all add up to a pretty damning picture that resonates with reality. While the Kripalu guru made his american hindu slaves be celebit, he screwed around. While maharji says this brings peace, he controls his close workers with heaping doses of anger and complaints, while this knowledge supposidly inspires harmony and control of the senses, his lordship screws around on his wife. This knowledge is to save us from this material world but the lord cannot stop his endless greed and frustration when his desires aren't met. On and on. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Mar 7, 1998 at 13:42:18 (EST)
Poster: Katie Email: petkat@mail.trib.net To: And On Anand Ji Subject: Being "normal" (Re: two facts) Message: I am not morally superior to anyone. In fact, I have some vulgar petty jealousy, of functional people, to work out -- people who hold regular jobs, have families, fulfilling relationships. I used to think I was above them. Now I know, for sure -- I have a heartfelt desire to be more like them, and join in life's banquet. Dear AOAJi - When did you leave M? (I know you've said on here before, but I forget.) I felt the same way you did after I left and it took about a year to get rid of the worst of it. I felt really separated and "different" from people who didn't have knowledge. I think we were taught to feel that way as premies, and I found it to be one of the most damaging effects of being a premie. It was probably worse for me (and perhaps you as well), because it's also a thing that children of alcoholics feel. (You've probably heard the thing about ACOA's "guessing at what 'normal' is".) I guess what I am trying to say is that it does get better, and also that you find out that a lot of other people feel the same way! Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Mar 7, 1998 at 13:50:59 (EST)
Poster: And On Anand Ji Email: aoa To: Katie Subject: Re: Being 'normal' (Re: two facts) Message: I am not morally superior to anyone. In fact, I have some vulgar petty jealousy, of functional people, to work out -- people who hold regular jobs, have families, fulfilling relationships. I used to think I was above them. Now I know, for sure -- I have a heartfelt desire to be more like them, and join in life's banquet. Dear AOAJi - When did you leave M? (I know you've said on here before, but I forget.) I felt the same way you did after I left and it took about a year to get rid of the worst of it. I felt really separated and 'different' from people who didn't have knowledge. I think we were taught to feel that way as premies, and I found it to be one of the most damaging effects of being a premie. It was probably worse for me (and perhaps you as well), because it's also a thing that children of alcoholics feel. (You've probably heard the thing about ACOA's 'guessing at what 'normal' is'.) I guess what I am trying to say is that it does get better, and also that you find out that a lot of other people feel the same way! I lead an ACoA meeting here, actually. Well, it's complicated, but I'd have to say until I saw this website, I was lazy about discarding the remnants of M's philosophy, and him, personally. I went to the knowledge re-session in Philly in I think 1992, so that certainly was at a time when I still wanted M to be what he said he was. Burke was in Philly, too (hope you don't mind me outing you, Bill!) I didn't flush the toilet until 1998, I suppose. Though I was so loosely associated I didn't really notice how my isolation tied into my systems constructed with the help of M's nonsensical discourses. By the way the Self-Parenting book by P.O. Diaz and P.A. O'Gorman (Health Publications) is very good; we use it in the step meeting all the time. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Mar 7, 1998 at 13:52:58 (EST)
Poster: Katie Email: petkat@mail.trib.net To: AOAJi Subject: P.S. to AOAJi (Re: two facts) Message: I forgot to say that I could really relate to your story about the fleas! If there is a flea within 100 yards of me, I'll get bit, so I am super-sensitive to the possibility, and have confused dry skin, allergic reactions, etc. for flea bites. Actually one time I was REALLY getting bitten by fleas and the person I was living with at the time didn't believe me because he wasn't getting bitten - I guess you could make a different metaphor out of that. Are you still getting "bit"? Take care, Katie Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Mar 7, 1998 at 13:58:02 (EST)
Poster: And On Anand Ji Email: aoa To: ---- Subject: ISBN (Re: Being 'normal') (Re: two facts) Message: Self-Parenting book by P.O. Diaz and P.A. O'Gorman (Health Publications) is very goodISBN 0-932194-68-0 "12 Steps to self-parenting for adult children of alcoholics" Health Communications Enterprise Center 3201 S.W. 15th Street Deerfield Beach, FL 33442 Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Mar 7, 1998 at 14:01:28 (EST)
Poster: And On Anand Ji Email: aoa To: Katie Subject: Re: P.S. to AOAJi (Re: two facts) Message: I forgot to say that I could really relate to your story about the fleas! If there is a flea within 100 yards of me, I'll get bit, so I am super-sensitive to the possibility, and have confused dry skin, allergic reactions, etc. for flea bites. Actually one time I was REALLY getting bitten by fleas and the person I was living with at the time didn't believe me because he wasn't getting bitten - I guess you could make a different metaphor out of that. Are you still getting 'bit'? Take care, Katie Not as often. I worry about summer -- the wettest month of the year is supposed to be the worst for fleas (they don't like dry or cold). I wished you hadn't said that, though -- maybe this person wasn't getting bitten! Hehe. No, I get them now in the shower, once in a while, and consistently on the bottoms of my feet, near the toes. It's got to be a false alarm - what's a flea doing down there in the middle of a deluge shower stall? :) Mu hee hee ha ha I'll laugh all the way to the funny farm . . . thanks for the thoughts. -AOAJi Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Mar 7, 1998 at 14:02:48 (EST)
Poster: Katie Email: petkat@mail.trib.net To: And On Anand Ji Subject: Re: Being 'normal' (Re: two facts) Message: So you're a Virtual Ex-Premie! (VP will be pleased...) Seriously, thanks for the info about the book. I don't go to meetings because they don't have an ACOA group where I live, and because I tend to get a little put off by 12-Step meetings (mostly because my mom's been going to AA since I was 16 and a lot of the philosophy got pushed down my throat. However, my mom's been sober for the last 13 years, so that's one good thing.) But I have read a lot of the books about ACOA's, and have found them helpful. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Mar 7, 1998 at 14:10:45 (EST)
Poster: Katie off topic Email: petkat@mail.trib.net To: And On Anand Ji Subject: Re: P.S. to AOAJi (Re: two facts) Message: It sounds like something else to me... like you are allergic to something? I know fleas get worse in the summer, but NOT in the shower! Also, if you are referring to the soles of your feet when you say the "bottom", I have NEVER been bitten by a flea there. They usually bite my legs and ankles. Also, regarding the independent corroboration, I'm sorry to put room for doubt in your mind (ha ha), but I think you said that the person that you asked about the fleas had actually been bitten before. My ex-boyfriend didn't even think that fleas COULD bite people (he did think I was crazy, so I know what you're talking about!). Back To Index -:- Top of Index |