Ex-Premie.Org

Forum III Archive # 1

From: Apr 4, 1998

To: Apr 11, 1998

Page: 3 Of: 5



Mirabai -:- having trouble sending message -:- Wed, Apr 08, 1998 at 04:43:48 (EDT)
__Brian -:- Illegal Characters now blocked -:- Wed, Apr 08, 1998 at 07:06:43 (EDT)
__Mirabai -:- having trouble sending message -:- Wed, Apr 08, 1998 at 10:04:02 (EDT)
__Mirabai -:- having trouble sending message -:- Wed, Apr 08, 1998 at 10:13:43 (EDT)

Mirabai -:- just starting here -:- Wed, Apr 08, 1998 at 04:40:05 (EDT)

Rick -:- Brian's Magic -:- Wed, Apr 08, 1998 at 01:42:33 (EDT)
__Brian -:- Brian's Magic -:- Wed, Apr 08, 1998 at 07:17:31 (EDT)

gumby -:- Premies, Are you Selfish?... -:- Wed, Apr 08, 1998 at 01:38:08 (EDT)
__NV -:- Premies, Are you Selfish... -:- Thurs, Apr 09, 1998 at 19:09:46 (EDT)

Paula -:- To boomerang Bruce -:- Wed, Apr 08, 1998 at 00:00:54 (EDT)
__Robyn -:- Paula lives.... -:- Wed, Apr 08, 1998 at 10:29:07 (EDT)

Jim -:- Easy, Bruce, easy -:- Tues, Apr 07, 1998 at 21:40:23 (EDT)
__Paula -:- to bruce again -:- Wed, Apr 08, 1998 at 00:21:19 (EDT)
____Scott T. -:- Anyone got two bits? -:- Wed, Apr 08, 1998 at 01:01:14 (EDT)
______Brian -:- Gifts from the Lord -:- Wed, Apr 08, 1998 at 07:32:08 (EDT)
________Scott T. -:- Gifts from the Lord -:- Wed, Apr 08, 1998 at 08:02:09 (EDT)
____Bruce -:- to bruce again -:- Wed, Apr 08, 1998 at 09:43:49 (EDT)
__Bruce -:- everyone read this -:- Wed, Apr 08, 1998 at 13:00:50 (EDT)
____Katie -:- everyone read this -:- Wed, Apr 08, 1998 at 13:28:16 (EDT)
____Jim -:- Bruce, you're blind as a bat -:- Wed, Apr 08, 1998 at 14:10:03 (EDT)
______Rick -:- Jim's Yiddish -:- Wed, Apr 08, 1998 at 14:23:21 (EDT)
____Rick -:- everyone read this -:- Wed, Apr 08, 1998 at 14:17:01 (EDT)
__Still Crazy -:- Easy, Bruce, easy -:- Wed, Apr 08, 1998 at 14:34:27 (EDT)
____Rick -:- Easy, Bruce, easy -:- Wed, Apr 08, 1998 at 14:45:07 (EDT)

JW -:- Win $70,000,000 -:- Tues, Apr 07, 1998 at 19:41:35 (EDT)
__VP -:- Win $70,000,000 -:- Tues, Apr 07, 1998 at 19:44:57 (EDT)
____Jim -:- Win $70,000,000 -:- Tues, Apr 07, 1998 at 19:49:34 (EDT)
______JW -:- Win $70,000,000 -:- Tues, Apr 07, 1998 at 19:51:25 (EDT)
________Jim -:- Win $70,000,000 -:- Tues, Apr 07, 1998 at 19:53:52 (EDT)
__________JW -:- Win $70,000,000 -:- Tues, Apr 07, 1998 at 19:59:32 (EDT)
____________Robyn -:- Win $70,000,000 -:- Tues, Apr 07, 1998 at 20:03:38 (EDT)
______________Jim -:- Win $70,000,000 -:- Tues, Apr 07, 1998 at 20:13:18 (EDT)
________________Robyn -:- Win $70,000,000 -:- Tues, Apr 07, 1998 at 20:24:32 (EDT)
______________Paula -:- Santa -:- Tues, Apr 07, 1998 at 22:52:12 (EDT)
________Mirabai -:- Win 70,000,000 -:- Wed, Apr 08, 1998 at 09:55:27 (EDT)
__Katie -:- Win $70,000,000 -:- Tues, Apr 07, 1998 at 20:25:10 (EDT)
____Robyn -:- Win $70,000,000 -:- Tues, Apr 07, 1998 at 20:28:29 (EDT)
______Katie -:- Win $70,000,000 -:- Tues, Apr 07, 1998 at 20:34:48 (EDT)
________Robyn -:- Win $70,000,000 -:- Tues, Apr 07, 1998 at 20:42:00 (EDT)
__________Rick -:- Win $70,000,000 -:- Tues, Apr 07, 1998 at 20:54:54 (EDT)
________Paula -:- fortune tellers... -:- Tues, Apr 07, 1998 at 22:54:17 (EDT)
__________Katie -:- fortune tellers... -:- Tues, Apr 07, 1998 at 22:57:53 (EDT)
__Lg -:- Win $70,000,000 -:- Tues, Apr 07, 1998 at 22:08:25 (EDT)
__Joy -:- Win $70,000,000 -:- Wed, Apr 08, 1998 at 02:21:46 (EDT)
____Katie -:- Win 70,000,000 -:- Wed, Apr 08, 1998 at 10:13:12 (EDT)

Scott T. -:- PBS: Jesus to Christ -:- Tues, Apr 07, 1998 at 17:04:30 (EDT)
__VP -:- PBS: Jesus to Christ -:- Tues, Apr 07, 1998 at 17:36:55 (EDT)
____Scott T. -:- PBS: Jesus to Christ -:- Tues, Apr 07, 1998 at 18:18:54 (EDT)
____Scott T. -:- Jesus to Christ: Time, etc. -:- Tues, Apr 07, 1998 at 19:35:42 (EDT)
______VP -:- Jesus to Christ: Time, etc. -:- Tues, Apr 07, 1998 at 19:43:18 (EDT)
______eb -:- Jesus to Christ -:- Wed, Apr 08, 1998 at 12:11:50 (EDT)
________Scott T. -:- Jesus to Christ -:- Wed, Apr 08, 1998 at 14:14:36 (EDT)

Scott T. -:- Pillsbury Doughboy -:- Tues, Apr 07, 1998 at 16:28:39 (EDT)
__John K. -:- Pillsbury Doughboy -:- Tues, Apr 07, 1998 at 16:47:17 (EDT)
____Scott T. -:- Pillsbury Doughboy -:- Tues, Apr 07, 1998 at 16:54:30 (EDT)
______Katie -:- Pillsbury Doughboy -:- Tues, Apr 07, 1998 at 17:56:36 (EDT)
________Robyn -:- Pillsbury Doughboy -:- Tues, Apr 07, 1998 at 18:19:44 (EDT)
__________VP -:- Pillsbury Doughboy -:- Tues, Apr 07, 1998 at 18:50:16 (EDT)
____________Scott T. -:- Pillsbury Doughboy -:- Tues, Apr 07, 1998 at 19:17:09 (EDT)
____JW -:- Pillsbury Doughboy -:- Tues, Apr 07, 1998 at 19:26:21 (EDT)

VP -:- Three Continents -:- Tues, Apr 07, 1998 at 14:57:15 (EDT)
__Katie -:- Three Continents -:- Tues, Apr 07, 1998 at 18:34:30 (EDT)
__John K. -:- Three Continents -:- Tues, Apr 07, 1998 at 22:50:55 (EDT)
____Joy -:- Three Continents -:- Wed, Apr 08, 1998 at 02:43:12 (EDT)
____VP -:- A Room With A View -:- Wed, Apr 08, 1998 at 19:33:59 (EDT)

John K. -:- Premies please don't read! -:- Tues, Apr 07, 1998 at 09:58:33 (EDT)
__Rick -:- Premies please don't read! -:- Tues, Apr 07, 1998 at 11:03:18 (EDT)
____Jim -:- Premies please don't read! -:- Tues, Apr 07, 1998 at 11:15:24 (EDT)
__Scott T. -:- Premies please don't read! -:- Tues, Apr 07, 1998 at 11:04:25 (EDT)
__Robyn -:- Premies please don't read! -:- Tues, Apr 07, 1998 at 12:28:06 (EDT)
____Robyn -:- To Brian-forumIII -:- Tues, Apr 07, 1998 at 12:50:30 (EDT)
______Robyn -:- To Brian-Inernet Explorer!^$*% -:- Tues, Apr 07, 1998 at 13:00:26 (EDT)
______Brian -:- You lost me -:- Tues, Apr 07, 1998 at 16:24:27 (EDT)
________Robyn -:- You lost me -:- Tues, Apr 07, 1998 at 18:39:51 (EDT)
__eb -:- Premies please don't read! -:- Tues, Apr 07, 1998 at 12:32:46 (EDT)
____Still Crazy -:- Premies please don't read! -:- Tues, Apr 07, 1998 at 15:34:32 (EDT)
__JW -:- Premies please don't read! -:- Tues, Apr 07, 1998 at 12:41:48 (EDT)
____Joy -:- Premies please don't read! -:- Wed, Apr 08, 1998 at 02:52:07 (EDT)
______Jim -:- Premies please don't read! -:- Wed, Apr 08, 1998 at 12:04:52 (EDT)
________Katie -:- Premies please don't read! -:- Wed, Apr 08, 1998 at 12:13:52 (EDT)
__________Jim -:- Premies please don't read! -:- Wed, Apr 08, 1998 at 13:51:15 (EDT)
__Mili -:- Premies please don't read! -:- Tues, Apr 07, 1998 at 13:35:05 (EDT)
____Scott T. -:- Mili ventures anyway... -:- Tues, Apr 07, 1998 at 14:09:20 (EDT)
______Rick -:- Mili ventures anyway... -:- Tues, Apr 07, 1998 at 15:14:38 (EDT)
______Mirabai -:- Mili ventures anyway... -:- Thurs, Apr 09, 1998 at 01:24:49 (EDT)
____Paula -:- mili angel life -:- Tues, Apr 07, 1998 at 17:04:54 (EDT)
______Robyn -:- mili angel life -:- Tues, Apr 07, 1998 at 20:26:40 (EDT)
________Paula -:- to Robyn -:- Tues, Apr 07, 1998 at 22:35:31 (EDT)
__premie -:- Premies please don't read! -:- Tues, Apr 07, 1998 at 14:25:21 (EDT)
____Scott T. -:- Premies please don't read! -:- Tues, Apr 07, 1998 at 16:18:57 (EDT)
______David -:- I like it, Scott -:- Tues, Apr 07, 1998 at 20:31:22 (EDT)
__Katie -:- Premies please don't read! -:- Tues, Apr 07, 1998 at 18:12:56 (EDT)
____Mirabai -:- Premies please don't read! -:- Thurs, Apr 09, 1998 at 01:40:51 (EDT)
__VP -:- Premies please don't read! -:- Tues, Apr 07, 1998 at 19:19:11 (EDT)
____Katie -:- Premies please don't read! -:- Tues, Apr 07, 1998 at 20:32:37 (EDT)

Brian -:- Tweaking the Indentation -:- Mon, Apr 06, 1998 at 23:07:41 (EDT)

Jim -:- Calling Mr Ex -:- Sun, Apr 05, 1998 at 14:18:44 (EDT)
__Mr Ex -:- Calling Mr Ex -:- Sun, Apr 05, 1998 at 18:29:56 (EDT)
____Jim -:- Calling Mr Ex -:- Sun, Apr 05, 1998 at 18:44:32 (EDT)
______Mr Ex -:- Calling Mr Ex!!!!! -:- Mon, Apr 06, 1998 at 03:55:17 (EDT)
________Brian -:- Calling Mr Ex!!!!! -:- Mon, Apr 06, 1998 at 06:16:28 (EDT)
__________Mr Ex -:- What's this confusion? -:- Mon, Apr 06, 1998 at 09:00:31 (EDT)
____________Jim -:- What's this confusion? -:- Mon, Apr 06, 1998 at 11:42:34 (EDT)
______________Mr Ex -:- Still a little paranoid! -:- Mon, Apr 06, 1998 at 12:14:28 (EDT)
________________Jim -:- Still a little paranoid! -:- Mon, Apr 06, 1998 at 15:32:15 (EDT)
__________________Brian -:- Put my name in the subject -:- Wed, Apr 08, 1998 at 07:38:09 (EDT)


Date: Wed, Apr 08, 1998 at 04:43:48 (EDT)
From: Mirabai
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: having trouble sending message
Message:
*I'm just seeing if my message goes in,I'm having trouble with forum.*
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Date: Wed, Apr 08, 1998 at 07:06:43 (EDT)
From: Brian
Email: brian@ex-premie.org
To: Mirabai
Subject: Illegal Characters now blocked
Message:
For all the apparent magic that Rick refers to below, I'm not very proficient at writing in Perl.

For now at least, I've just blocked certain letters from appearing in the From, Email, To, & Subject fields. They are:

()[]\^$+|?

I realize that there is a better way to do it, but I'm kinda busy right now. I'll come back to this when I have the time to experiment on the problems that crop up as a result of them appearing where they were. Meanwhile, they'll simply be deleted from those fields.
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Date: Wed, Apr 08, 1998 at 10:04:02 (EDT)
From: Mirabai
Email: None
To: Mirabai
Subject: having trouble sending message
Message:
work this time
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Date: Wed, Apr 08, 1998 at 10:13:43 (EDT)
From: Mirabai
Email: None
To: Mirabai
Subject: having trouble sending message
Message:
*works,then doesn't,this is confusing*
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Date: Wed, Apr 08, 1998 at 04:40:05 (EDT)
From: Mirabai
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: just starting here
Message:
*I'm having trouble sending my message into the forum,just checking.*
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Date: Wed, Apr 08, 1998 at 01:42:33 (EDT)
From: Rick
Email: None
To: Brian
Subject: Brian's Magic
Message:
Brian,
You're doing a great job on this new forum. Everything is cleaner and seems to work faster without Paradise. I was wondering about those little green and yellow tags that indicated new messages on Paradise. I don't know about anyone else, but I found them useful. Are there any plans to use them here?
Rick
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Date: Wed, Apr 08, 1998 at 07:17:31 (EDT)
From: Brian
Email: brian@ex-premie.org
To: Rick
Subject: Brian's Magic
Message:
I don't have any plans to include them at this point. They can be included later if there is an outcry. I always yield to torches and pitchforks...

As for the improved speed without Paradise, it's amazing just how much simpler life is without Utopia, isn't it? [grin]
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Date: Wed, Apr 08, 1998 at 01:38:08 (EDT)
From: gumby
Email: megumby@hotmail.com
To: Everyone
Subject: Premies, Are you Selfish?...
Message:
Hi Premie Friends,

I have been recently reading some of the posts by premie brethren, about how selfless m is. With his busy schedule, flying millions of kilometers, slavishly giving of himself. Aren't any of you premies a bit ashamed of yourselves? Here is this poor little man who is working like a dog so that you can get your 'fix'. So you can 'shoot' up another video. Mainline another event. Don't you feel like a junkie? Look at yourself in the mirror. You are not a teenager anymore, wake up, wake up! It is still not too late.

I have read alot about premies who insist that their experience and trip is one of self determination, one of free will. You are deceiving yourselves. To prove it. Try the following: DO NOT go to a video, for 2-3 weeks. DO NOT listen to a cassette for 2-3 weeks. DO NOT come to this site for 2-3 weeks. DO NOT go to an event for 2-3 months. Come back, and with an honest, open heart, and open mind tell the world you are *not* addicted.

Little m will really appreciate your abstinence, it will give him a small chance to relax and do a little fishing. It will also do some good for you. What say? Give it a try?

May Grace and God be multiplied in you.

-gumby
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Date: Thurs, Apr 09, 1998 at 19:09:46 (EDT)
From: NV
Email: None
To: gumby
Subject: Premies, Are you Selfish...
Message:
I've met your qualifications gumby, and yes I am addicted. Feeling good is a hard thing to be without. So what do you do to feel good? Can you say you're not addicted to it?
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Date: Wed, Apr 08, 1998 at 00:00:54 (EDT)
From: Paula
Email: None
To: Bruce
Subject: To boomerang Bruce
Message:
Dear Bruce:

Sorry to take so long to respond, but as I did not say in my original post, I have many things that I have and like to do. (as you can see, I even copy pasted the first paragraph of your message to not waste time!) ...(just a joke don't be mad!)

I am from a country where there is one of the biggest japanese colonization outside Japan, and there is also 6 million lebanese people. Well... there is a lot of chinese, and coreans too. In 3000km south from here (not in the same country), Maharaji has a big farm (try to guess.... if you are good in geography... I give you my word all these facts are true).

I am telling this, because you imagine that there is an 'East' and a 'West' kind of minds. If you base your arguments from this statement, you can make a lot of mistakes. In my country no one thinks much (which is good and bad at the same time).

Also... you might have understood I practice some kind of meditation related to Tibettan Budism, but I never did. I tried to do something similar once on a zen monastery and I did not feel peace......well.... more than that.... All the monastics got mad when I was there. Also.... tibetan budhism has almost no followers here.

To me, a very sacred feeling comes from simple things as chocolate ice cream, or driving my car alone in a highway listening to music. No need to put my tongue anywhere special. (I hope you respect my way of life)

I am not a M lover or a M hater.... I like just to watch..... but you made me think of something:

Every time I receive a phone call from an old friend (sometimes it happens) it is because they entered on Amway business and they want me to get in too.
Every time I meet a hare-krishna, this person invites me to go to the temple and eat some (I don't recall the name of their sacred food). Also, they try to sell me good incenses...
Every time I get in touch to some people that is involved on African rituals, they say I have to talk with the spirits......
And every time I meet a premie, they want me to go to watch videos.

Sorry Bruce, but my eyes are different.

You say that people are like fruit (I bet M said that on a video, I recall something like this on his videos). Many people are not fruits. For example, as far as I was told in school, Newton discovered gravity when he saw fruits falling. He was very smart, don't you think?

About the misinformation on this web site.... I can tell you I did not notice much of it. And I always do my homework.

Bruce, one final short note: don't come here... your point of view might get hurt.
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Date: Wed, Apr 08, 1998 at 10:29:07 (EDT)
From: Robyn
Email: sundogs@hotmail.com
To: Paula
Subject: Paula lives....
Message:
Dear Paula,
I think I know where you live but it seemed to me that you didn't want it posted on the forum?
Robyn
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Date: Tues, Apr 07, 1998 at 21:40:23 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Easy, Bruce, easy
Message:
Dear brothers and sisters,

Bruce said this:

Jim and others,

II was mistaken in claiming that it was 'up to the ceiling in bullshit'.on further study I'll amend that to
'up to the picture rail in BS' as there are are a few correct statements. The BS is for you Paula, as clearly anyone saying bullshit is not connected to a divine experience, right?

The main BS is that the article is about 25 years out of date. Obvious as that should be, it may not be so to ex's on
this forum who clearly are living in a 70's time warp. We would have been annoyed by this article way back then. In 1997
this is preposterous. Mishler,20 years dead, is quoted as though he's just been interviewed!
A few details; Nobody refers to M. as Exploding Peace Bomb nor Lord of the Universe . Some did way back, I never did. I enjoyed singing the song though. We don't see ourselves as followers either.

Recruiting new followers? Since this event was open only to people who had already been shown the techniques,more BS
Remote bushland and monolithic egg shaped mountain? this land is 50km from the CBD and there are housing subdivisions one minutes drive from the property! Ivory's rock is a rock. There are
numerous smallpeaks in the area.
Then there are numerous examples of ahrams etc, all of which has nothing to do with how things ACTUALLY ARE NOW. and
only ever represented a tiny minority of premies..
Some responses to ex's comments I received;
No, I'm not at all embarassed by M's plane. Its obviously necessary for his role as a teacher. Those who complain have clearly not done much travelling. Do you expext him to spend half his life in airport waiting lounges? It also shows how together he is. Family not good enough to travel with him? He flew in from the Asian region.. Is is supposed to go home to pick them up from the States? Get real. I don't see it as a toy, and niether does he. Mostly he is exhausted by the amount of travelling he does.

Despite your apparent denial, JIm, blind Freddy can see that this
despicable newspaper article's main source of 70's BS, was your website,and you and your band now have to accept responsibility for the' real damage in people's lives' it has provoked, and in ways which none of you can ever predict.

How ironic that the group who sets themselves up as an avenger
of ' hurts' to premies in a situation they freely chose, now could create a much greater harm to a much larger number of premies, many of which went through exactly the same conditions as you but DO NOT feel we have been ripped off, and certainly are not choosing you to bat for us.

This is serious and there is more.

Please don't expect an immediate response as Life calls. Also, I
am not interested in responding to people who have patronising,
obnoxious views of long term premies. Thats you I suspect, Scott.


Bruce,

You're right that the article obviously got some things wrong. The 'exploding peace bomb' is hilarious. Come on, man, lighten up. We all know where that came from and the misinterpretation's kind of funny. (By the way, can Maharaji laugh at himself? I mean about anything more than the cutesy Leave-it-to-Beaver things he used to like to kibbitz about when imparting the experience beyond words.)I'm really curious about this greater harm that you say we're causing. Is it the 'exploding peace bomb'? Is that it? Because if it is, I tell you right here that I'm prepared to sign my name to a group letter-to-the-editor from the denizens of this site clearing this matter up. No, Maharaji was not the 'exploding peace bomb.'

On the other hand, Bruce, don't you think that if the world really knew what that phrase was all about, i.e. Maharaji's promise to bring peace to the whole world, it'd be a lot more embarrasing than this little gaffe? Think about it. My offer stands.

Bruce, what a coincidence that yet another premie never really believed that 'Lord of the Universe' stuff. Boy, I had no idea! But it was a fun song to sing, wasn't it? And bowing to the picture and shouting out all those Bhole Shri's and all, that was kind of neat too, huh? I wonder if you caught up with all those thousands of Germans who rallied with Hitler, how many would say they never really bought into all the hype. 'Heil Hitler' sure was fun though!

And I agree it was scandalously misleading to refer to you guys as 'followers'. I feel your pain on that one. Why, nothing could be further from the truth, right? 'Followers' - that's just ridiculous.

And getting the geography wrong must have also been very hurtful. I don't know what to say, Bruce. Sometimes the pain crosses over our tragic philosophical difference and I feel as if I could be where you are today. I'm holding a silent moment on this one. 'Remote bushland' indeed!

Your stern moral admonition about the effect all this BS will have on innocent souls makes me wish I still had one. The way you put it,'now have to accept responsibility for the' real damage in people's lives' it has provoked, and in ways which none of you can ever predict' makes me feel bad. Maybe if I watch some TV I'll feel better but, until then, I'm going to be hurtin' myself. This stuff is catchy.

Bruce, I've got your point about the unpredictable harm. I just wonder if you could spell it out a bit so the WORLD could understand.

The fact that there are so many premies who did indeed go through 'exactly the same conditions' we all did but who don't feel ripped off must tell you something. I'll tell you what I get from that -- they're right and I'm wrong. Is that it?

This IS serious Bruce but I wonder how much more you're talking about. Can't wait,

Jim
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Date: Wed, Apr 08, 1998 at 00:21:19 (EDT)
From: Paula
Email: None
To: Bruce
Subject: to bruce again
Message:
I did not read Jim message when I wrote the response to your original reply... well.....

'anyone saying bullshit is not connected to a divine experience, right? '

that is not what I said. I said that a very mad person is not connected to something magical.

reading is an art, don't you think?? oh... sorry I forgot you don't think because your master told you not to do so.
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Date: Wed, Apr 08, 1998 at 01:01:14 (EDT)
From: Scott T.
Email: None
To: Paula
Subject: Anyone got two bits?
Message:
Paula, et al:

Is it just me, or is Bruce (and most other premies) trying to stir up a wind with a twig? I've asked half a dozen times for someone to come up with just one unambiguously selfless or noble act on MJ's part. They immediately attack me, or Jim or JW or some other ex for 'not being credible.' In the mean time my challenge goes unanswered, and has done for two weeks so far. I'm puzzled. Either they don't know what a selfless act is, or they figure it is beneath their dignity as a member of the elect to proffer a noble act, or they can't find one, or they're too lazy to do the research. What do you think? I'll bet I could find a noble act somewhere, sometime. He must have given a quarter to a beggar...

(Paula, I apologize for making an inside joke. I will explain if you like.)

-Scott
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Date: Wed, Apr 08, 1998 at 07:32:08 (EDT)
From: Brian
Email: brian@ex-premie.org
To: Scott T.
Subject: Gifts from the Lord
Message:
Selfless acts by MJ?

Well, OP used to love to tell the story about how the little lord used to order pizza. He'd eat one slice (or just take one bite), and then send it back downstairs so that his devotees could eat it.

They were, of course, deeply moved at his gesture. Especially since the ashram premies didn't get to order pizza very often, and it was a nice break from lentils.

Amazing Grace!
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Date: Wed, Apr 08, 1998 at 08:02:09 (EDT)
From: Scott T.
Email: None
To: Brian
Subject: Gifts from the Lord
Message:
Brian:

No fair! You're an ex.

-Scott
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Date: Wed, Apr 08, 1998 at 09:43:49 (EDT)
From: Bruce
Email: None
To: Paula
Subject: to bruce again
Message:
Dear Paula,

I'm not sure what your real motive is in posting to me.

I am not trying to get you to do anything. What a have said is that IF you are interested in who M. is and/or what he teaches,then listening to him is the way to do it. He is a teacher.
If you want to learn from him then you listen to him. Its pretty simple. This forum is about words and ideas, not feelings. M. is about feelings.

You will definitely NOT get M's message in this forum.

Okay, I take your point about about the 'fuck you' comment, but I suspect that NV wasn't really 'mad' when he typed that .

He was probably laughing .

You say that you don't detect much that is not true on this forum,
and that you do your homework.

Well Paula, better redo your homework because your comment

>you don't think because your master told you not to<

is totally rubbish. On the contrary, he encourages people to use their mind for what its for and to use their heart for what its for, and to know the difference

>don't come here, my feelings might get hurt<

Thats for me to decide, But I am not interested in debating for the sake of debating., Nor am I likely to get my feelings hurt.

The geography quiz.? I reckon I can guess, as I have possibly been there, but I don't see your point.
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Date: Wed, Apr 08, 1998 at 13:00:50 (EDT)
From: Bruce
Email: phoenix@b024.aone.net.au
To: Jim and all at premie ex
Subject: everyone read this
Message:
Jim,

Actually, I already feel quite light.

The issue is quite heavy.

Can't you ever stop being a smart arse?

The issue is simple. You and others have created a web site for your own purposes. You claim its for the good. I and many others differ.

On your site is an article which I have tried to point out,is totally
biased and very innacurate. As an informed eyewitness, I
am certain of this.

I and many others, are very happy to have this conference centre near at hand, and have have happily given our time over the last 5 years to transform what was a scene of environmental degradation to a natural habitat and conference centre.
Such has been the transformation, that environmental and civic awards have been presented to us by government bodies.
Take note, Scott and others.
We regard this as our own project, and derive a great deal from
being involved in it.
Articles such as kanguru create PR problems which could, if continued, make our use of the centre untenable.and reflect badly on everyone involved. The effects of these public perceptions cannot be predicted., but are inevitably a problem which we do not feel we deserve.
Therefore, I ask that you remove this article from your site. I'm sure you can do without it, and it does not enhance your credibility as an honest broker.
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Date: Wed, Apr 08, 1998 at 13:28:16 (EDT)
From: Katie
Email: petkat@mail.trib.net
To: Bruce
Subject: everyone read this
Message:
Dear Bruce - Just to let you know, Brian is the webmaster on this site, and has the final say on site content. (His e-mail is
brian@ex-premie.org.) I think I understand your concern about the use of the article (negative publicity, etc.), but I, personally, don't think that the 'Kanguru' article is that bad and/or damaging to M. If you have evidence to the contrary, I'm pretty sure Brian will consider it.

Regards from Katie
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Date: Wed, Apr 08, 1998 at 14:10:03 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Bruce
Subject: Bruce, you're blind as a bat
Message:
Bruce,

I'm getting close to name-calling. I'm not quite there yet, you Meshugina, you Nincompoop, but I am getting closer.

You are so out of touch with where we're at, most of us here, I think, it's frightening. If it were legal and I had the money I'd send you to Ted Patrick's Club Med.

Let's assume, just for argument's sake, that you're right, the article's unfair. Have you thought for a moment whether or not Maharaji's stonewalling the press might ahve contributed to this. Take a look at your brother-in-light, Mili's, last post where HE put up the quotes from M about being the saviour of humanity, asking us to shout it in the streets, tomorrow may be too late.

We shouted. We demanded that the world sit up and take notice: Maharaji was here.

Now, you say Maharaji's entitled to a little privacy away from the nosy, sensationalist press? Bruce, what could have been more sensational than M himself, striking his 'God in Human Form' pose and just challenging the world to ask one question: Who is Guru Maharaj Ji?

'Ask 'til you know the answer' Bruce. Isn't tah how the song goes?

Come on, Bruce, use your head a bit here. Next stop - Name Calling!
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Date: Wed, Apr 08, 1998 at 14:23:21 (EDT)
From: Rick
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Jim's Yiddish
Message:
For those unaware of the Yiddish term 'meshugina', it loosely translates into crazy, kooky, nuts, whacko, ditzy, not-too-tightly-wound, a screw loose, etc. What Bruce really is, is a schmeckelhead, but I'll let Jim explain that in his next post.
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Date: Wed, Apr 08, 1998 at 14:17:01 (EDT)
From: Rick
Email: None
To: Bruce
Subject: everyone read this
Message:
BWAHAHAAHAAHAAHAAHAA!!!
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Date: Wed, Apr 08, 1998 at 14:34:27 (EDT)
From: Still Crazy
Email: None
To: Bruce
Subject: Easy, Bruce, easy
Message:
Bruce said:
We don't see ourselves as followers either.

I don't know who the 'we' is, but I don't feel like this is a true statement.

In February of this year, nearly 26 years after I received Knowledge, I made a decision.

This decision was: I am no longer going to follow Maharaji.

Now when I see my friends, I tell them, 'I am no longer a follower of Maharaji.'

Before this point, if anyone asked me, I would say, 'I am a follower of Maharaji.'

-Still
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Date: Wed, Apr 08, 1998 at 14:45:07 (EDT)
From: Rick
Email: None
To: Still Crazy
Subject: Easy, Bruce, easy
Message:
Well put, SC. It's splitting hairs to quibble about 'following'. Premies certainly aren't leading maharaji.
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Date: Tues, Apr 07, 1998 at 19:41:35 (EDT)
From: JW
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Win $70,000,000
Message:
The California lottery jackpot was $70,000,000 this morning and people are buying tickets so fast that I'm sure it's $80,000,000 by now. Anyone interested in buying some 'quick pick' tickets? They're a dollar each and the drawing is tomorrow night. I NEVER play the lottery because I think your chances are the same whether you play or not, but could you resist the newspaper headlines:

'Group of Ex-Followers of the Ex-Lord of the Universe Win $80 Million!!!!'

Premies cannot participate, because who knows where their money really goes!
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Date: Tues, Apr 07, 1998 at 19:44:57 (EDT)
From: VP
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: Win $70,000,000
Message:
I need to play, I'm trying to get a scanner... VP
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Date: Tues, Apr 07, 1998 at 19:49:34 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: VP
Subject: Win $70,000,000
Message:
We need a couch.
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Date: Tues, Apr 07, 1998 at 19:51:25 (EDT)
From: JW
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Win $70,000,000
Message:
You mean to stuff your money in?
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Date: Tues, Apr 07, 1998 at 19:53:52 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: Win $70,000,000
Message:
No, we need a couch, that's all. This has nothing to do with the lottery, I just thought I'd mention it.
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Date: Tues, Apr 07, 1998 at 19:59:32 (EDT)
From: JW
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Win $70,000,000
Message:
Thanks for sharing, Jim. Actually, I have a queen-sized sleeper sofa in my basement in excellent condition, that you can have for free, but I realize location might be a problem.

Attention everyone: we are NOT off topic. We are speaking on topic, but in code. Thank you.
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Date: Tues, Apr 07, 1998 at 20:03:38 (EDT)
From: Robyn
Email: sundogs@hotmail.com
To: JW
Subject: Win $70,000,000
Message:
JW and Jim,
Thank you, you can be so funny. BTW, I could use a car and one really good paying job. Are we compiling a list for Santa?
Robyn
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Date: Tues, Apr 07, 1998 at 20:13:18 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Robyn
Subject: Win $70,000,000
Message:
What color?
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Date: Tues, Apr 07, 1998 at 20:24:32 (EDT)
From: Robyn
Email: sundogs@hotmail.com
To: Jim
Subject: Win $70,000,000
Message:
Jim,
Hmmm, Forest Green, Subaru, All Wheel Drive, wagon. Got one?
Robyn
I almost posted it without the commas but I know you wouldn't like that!
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Date: Tues, Apr 07, 1998 at 22:52:12 (EDT)
From: Paula
Email: None
To: Robyn
Subject: Santa
Message:
Robyn...

at least Santa Claus gave me presents when I was a child...

I would not mind he pays my credit cards......put me on the list......
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Date: Wed, Apr 08, 1998 at 09:55:27 (EDT)
From: Mirabai
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: Win 70,000,000
Message:
I'm having difficulty with forum
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Date: Tues, Apr 07, 1998 at 20:25:10 (EDT)
From: Katie
Email: petkat@mail.trib.net
To: JW
Subject: Win $70,000,000
Message:
Hey, JW, buy me a few tickets and I will send you a check (5 or less). I never play the lottery either but this sounds fun. Wonder how many tickets M's bought?

My friend's little boy told my fortune a few weeks ago and it said that I would not move to Iowa (he was 99% correct on this one), but that I would win the lottery! (he used a 'fortune-teller', remember them). We were supposed to buy tickets in Iowa (do they even have a lottery?) but did not... So maybe this is my chance!
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Date: Tues, Apr 07, 1998 at 20:28:29 (EDT)
From: Robyn
Email: sundogs@hotmail.com
To: Katie
Subject: Win $70,000,000
Message:
Katie,
I guess then you'd know what to do for the rest of your life! What is a fortune teller?
Robyn
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Date: Tues, Apr 07, 1998 at 20:34:48 (EDT)
From: Katie
Email: petkat@mail.trib.net
To: Robyn
Subject: Win $70,000,000
Message:
It's a little toy that kids make out of folded paper - you pick first a color, and then a number, and then unfold it to get your fortune. We used to make them in grade school, but we called them (for some unknown reason) 'cootie catchers'!
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Date: Tues, Apr 07, 1998 at 20:42:00 (EDT)
From: Robyn
Email: sundogs@hotmail.com
To: Katie
Subject: Win $70,000,000
Message:
Katie,
Now I know what you mean, I can't remember what we called them. It is so neat because when my kids were younger they made them to. It is an interesting phenomina (sp?) because I didn't tell my kids about them. Each grammer school group passed it down to the next. Do you remember Chinese jump rope?
Robyn
Good night all. I am getting out of here early tonight. I'm glad we don't get PBS or I'd be tempted to watch that show and I need to sleep. Hey maybe someone could tape it and sell the video, I hear it is a great way to make a few extra bucks.
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Date: Tues, Apr 07, 1998 at 20:54:54 (EDT)
From: Rick
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Win $70,000,000
Message:
Listen, ya'll completely missed the point. Our mission is to bring doughboy to his knees by gaining notoriety as a group of lottery-winners. The fame can be used as a soap box to tell the world our message. But no, your all off on fantasizing what you're gonna do with the riches. The premies are right; leaving m stimulates the mind (thus creating greed).
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Date: Tues, Apr 07, 1998 at 22:54:17 (EDT)
From: Paula
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: fortune tellers...
Message:
Katie.... I thought fortune tellers were that gipsy old woman that reads your hands and read cards.......how do you call these people?
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Date: Tues, Apr 07, 1998 at 22:57:53 (EDT)
From: Katie
Email: petkat@mail.trib.net
To: Paula
Subject: fortune tellers...
Message:
You are right - fortune tellers ARE people who read cards and palms and so forth, but it's also a name of a toy that children make here (and use to tell your fortune!)
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Date: Tues, Apr 07, 1998 at 22:08:25 (EDT)
From: Lg
Email: lucille.gravel@nlc-bnc.ca
To: JW
Subject: Win $70,000,000
Message:
JW
Can canadian participate in this lottery? If so, would you buy one ticket for me (random), we'll arrange the financial aspect.
Send me an e-mail giving your address and I'll send you a money order in u.s. Are you willing? Thanks. Lg
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Date: Wed, Apr 08, 1998 at 02:21:46 (EDT)
From: Joy
Email: Bluebirdd@aol.com
To: JW
Subject: Win $70,000,000
Message:
Okay, Joe, count me in for five tickets, please. I will also send you a check. If you and Katie are going to win jointly, I want in on the proceeds, please! And who else do you have lined up here, lg for one ticket?

Gee, for $70,000,000 we could buy our own Lear jet, mansions in Malibu and Australia, and goodness knows what else!!! Maybe even our own land for programs and video production facilities! (But at least we'll have got it legitimately.)
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Date: Wed, Apr 08, 1998 at 10:13:12 (EDT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Joy and Joe
Subject: Win 70,000,000
Message:
I vote that we buy Brian a new computer, some decent software, a scanner, and pay for the disk space for the forum for the next several years. We also might want to get Brian an 800 number (or pay part of his phone bill!).
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Date: Tues, Apr 07, 1998 at 17:04:30 (EDT)
From: Scott T.
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: PBS: Jesus to Christ
Message:
Hi:

Just wanted to remind everyone that episode 3 and 4 of the Nova series on the early Christians runs tonight. Very good quasi-historical documentary. Has a few holes, in my opinion. They also have some of the supporting evidence as well as related materials on the PBS website. This was not a 'good times' religion.

-Scott
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Date: Tues, Apr 07, 1998 at 17:36:55 (EDT)
From: VP
Email: None
To: Scott T.
Subject: PBS: Jesus to Christ
Message:
Scott, What time (EST) is this on? VP
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Date: Tues, Apr 07, 1998 at 18:18:54 (EDT)
From: Scott T.
Email: None
To: VP
Subject: PBS: Jesus to Christ
Message:
Don't know what time. Seems like it was about 7:00 last night. Maybe 8:00

Scott
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Date: Tues, Apr 07, 1998 at 19:35:42 (EDT)
From: Scott T.
Email: None
To: VP
Subject: Jesus to Christ: Time, etc.
Message:
VP:

The Frontline series Jesus to Christ starts at 9:00 PM EDT. There is a synopsis of all four episodes (two aired last night and two tonight) at:

Click Here

-Scott
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Date: Tues, Apr 07, 1998 at 19:43:18 (EDT)
From: VP
Email: None
To: Scott T.
Subject: Jesus to Christ: Time, etc.
Message:
Scott,
Thank you very much! I'll be watching. Maybe we can discuss it later on. VP
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Date: Wed, Apr 08, 1998 at 12:11:50 (EDT)
From: eb
Email: None
To: Scott T.
Subject: Jesus to Christ
Message:
Hi Scott,

I got to watch about an hour last nite... great show! (Although I did want to tell the narrator reading the Bible passages to 'Settle down, Beavis'. Thanks for letting us know about it. Eugen Weber's Western Civilization runs through the period in one episode, not the step-by-step progression shown on Nova. I got a lot out of it.

I doubt whether you felt this way, Scott, but I remember back in the early 70's feeling that I was a disciple of the misunderstood messiah. I was certainly convinced enough to die for him, if need be. Maybe I was fed to lions in a previous lifetime. (That's a joke).

Warmly,
eb
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Date: Wed, Apr 08, 1998 at 14:14:36 (EDT)
From: Scott T.
Email: None
To: eb
Subject: Jesus to Christ
Message:
eb:

I too thought something like that. There've been a number of martyrs to various causes. How about the guy that stood in front of the tank at Tiennahnmen? It doesn't take a Messiah to inspire martyrdom. Unfortunately, it doesn't take a 'good' cause either. Glad to hear from you. Best wishes.

-Scott
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Date: Tues, Apr 07, 1998 at 16:28:39 (EDT)
From: Scott T.
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Pillsbury Doughboy
Message:
OK, what's with the Pillsbury Doughboy? Out of the blue someone sends me this 'doll' through the mail, no explanation, no literature, from 'Fulfillment Systems, Inc./ Monticello MN.' It has to be connected to you guys. Who's messing with my head?

-Scott
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Date: Tues, Apr 07, 1998 at 16:47:17 (EDT)
From: John K.
Email: None
To: Scott T.
Subject: Pillsbury Doughboy
Message:
I remember someone giving satsang once after a program that M looked so cute and adorable, sort of like the Pillsbury Doughboy. What's wierd is that I think it was JW that gave that satsang. I'm probably wrong about that though.
That's definetly a message though for you to repent and get back into the good graces of the divine doughboy.
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Date: Tues, Apr 07, 1998 at 16:54:30 (EDT)
From: Scott T.
Email: None
To: John K.
Subject: Pillsbury Doughboy
Message:
You think? I had the notion it might be Katie. Isn't she from the northern midwest?
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Date: Tues, Apr 07, 1998 at 17:56:36 (EDT)
From: Katie
Email: petkat@mail.trib.net
To: Scott T.
Subject: Pillsbury Doughboy
Message:
Scott - it wasn't me, honest (I have another friend who would LOVE one, though!) Looks like you have a secret admirer!
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Date: Tues, Apr 07, 1998 at 18:19:44 (EDT)
From: Robyn
Email: sundogs@hotmail.com
To: Katie
Subject: Pillsbury Doughboy
Message:
Katie, and Scott,
First off I didn't send it but when I was in high school I worked one summer at a factory spray painting plastic toys, soap dishes for Avon etc. They did the doughboy and I painted many black and gave them out to everyone who wanted them, to bad I hadn't know you or your friend then Katie! I really didn't send it but it is odd after the stalker thing. I sent you a response, Scott but my email messed it up I think, did you get it? I swear I'm ready to find a nice spot by a creek and drop out!
Robyn
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Date: Tues, Apr 07, 1998 at 18:50:16 (EDT)
From: VP
Email: None
To: Robyn
Subject: Pillsbury Doughboy
Message:
Scott, I'm not guilty either, but when I was little I had a Pillsbury Doughboy doll...during puberty he disappeared with a box of Batman comics and Tolkien books...VP
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Date: Tues, Apr 07, 1998 at 19:17:09 (EDT)
From: Scott T.
Email: None
To: VP
Subject: Pillsbury Doughboy
Message:
VP:

Well, now you know what happened to him, or at least where he ended up.

Scott
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Date: Tues, Apr 07, 1998 at 19:26:21 (EDT)
From: JW
Email: None
To: John K.
Subject: Pillsbury Doughboy
Message:
Lies, all lies, John. You cannot prove (at least I hope you can't) that I ever said anything so dumb.

I cannot imagine the terror of embarrassment I would feel if anyone had videos of ME giving satsang. I think I would rather die than see them. Reading those letters I sent to my parents was bad enough. But to actually see myself spewing the drivel I spewed for so many years ........... HELP! The absolute worst (and to this day I cringe when I think of it) was standing up in front of an entire community and cajoling and guilt-tripping them into borrowing money on their credit cards and otherwise going into debt, so Maharaji could have the latest luxury plane/toy he wanted. And I saw people who I know could NOT afford it dig deeper and turn over the cash.

And, despite how much I admire you Scott, I didn't send you a Doughboy. I always thought Maharaji looked more like the Michelen Man.
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Date: Tues, Apr 07, 1998 at 14:57:15 (EDT)
From: VP
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Three Continents
Message:
Just wanted to suggest this book to anyone who likes to read fiction. This book 'Three Continents' by Ruth Prawer Jhabvala is about 'two bored and directionless American youths who fall prey to the self-imposed sexual and intellectual captivity of an Indian movement and are pushed to the brink of self destruction.' Okay, so it's not a happy little summer vacation read!

The author never reveals too much about the goals or thinking of the movement, only the actions of the followers. (What they put themselves through in the name of this 'movement' that they have been called to.) This enables the reader to have total clarity as to what is happening to these followers. The whole time I have been reading this book, I keep telling the protagonasts, what ARE you doing? Why are you signing over your trust fund? Why are you giving this person your home? Your life? Etc. (It is sad and frustrating me, but I keep reading because I want to know what is going to become of them. The author is excellent, too.) Isn't it so obvious to see the traps that others are in, while ignoring the ones we have created for ourselves???

Has anyone else read this book (besides Katie:)
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Date: Tues, Apr 07, 1998 at 18:34:30 (EDT)
From: Katie
Email: petkat@mail.trib.net
To: VP
Subject: Three Continents
Message:
She also wrote (among many other books) a book of short stories called 'Out of India', which contains at least two stories about Westerners following Indian guru-types. One is called 'How to Be a Holy Mother'. Anyway, I second VP's recommendation of 'Three Continents' - it's a good book.
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Date: Tues, Apr 07, 1998 at 22:50:55 (EDT)
From: John K.
Email: kreilkamp@mindspring.com
To: VP
Subject: Three Continents
Message:
VP:
Back when I used to read fiction, I read a lot of books by Ruth Prawher Jhabvala. She's great, very funny, especially her descriptions of life in India. She wrote one about a personality cult in America ( sort of) called 'In Search of Love and Beauty'. But I recommend especially her books about India.
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Date: Wed, Apr 08, 1998 at 02:43:12 (EDT)
From: Joy
Email: None
To: John K.
Subject: Three Continents
Message:
Since we're recommending books about India, I liked Vikram Seth's 'A Suitable Boy' and Salmon Rushdie's 'Midnight's Children'. Both give you a very good sense of what it must be like to live there (I've never been there) and Rushdie's command of the English language is nothing short of spectacular.
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Date: Wed, Apr 08, 1998 at 19:33:59 (EDT)
From: VP
Email: None
To: John K.
Subject: A Room With A View
Message:
John,
She is very funny. This book isn't very funny-it has some humor, but I think it's more disturbing than anything, IMHO. I don't know if you saw A Room With a View, but I thought that movie was hilarious. (Especially Daniel Day Lewis' character) She wrote the screen play and won an Oscar for that. I'll have to read more by her! VP
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Date: Tues, Apr 07, 1998 at 09:58:33 (EDT)
From: John K.
Email: None
To: For Ex 's ONLY
Subject: Premies please don't read!
Message:
***Warning to all Premies who post here, the following post may be construed as insulting to you, so please don't read it.***

I know this is kind of rude to say, and that is why I don't want the premies to read this. But, for the past few weeks I have virtually stopped reading all posts from premies. Oh I will sometimes read the x's responses to the posts from premies, and from those I know more than enough about what the premie has said.

For instance, I just read Scott's reply to NV from which I can see exactly what NV has said and how totally frustrating and pointless it is to try and discuss M's actions and words with premies.

To argue with them is NOT a waste of time, imho, but it's still a nasty as hell job and after a few months of trying my hand at it, I need a break. I am very glad that some of you do enjoy trying to reason with them. Their programming and silliness really must be confronted.

Maybe I am a weak ex, but I'll tell you, life is so much nicer not having to be exposed to that programming. My thinking on my entire involvement with the cult is going through an evolution. From thinking that, 'oh, it was an interesting way to spend 10 years of my life', I am swaying quickly to thinking that this is a really sick, really dangerous, really corrupt group. The essence of its corruption is manifested in that they do nothing for anyone. When I was involved, the only focus was the guru. Everyone and everything else in the world was meaningless except for him. I believe it is still that way.

I know that I am usually not the only one doing something. Usually what I think and feel is thought and felt by many others. So, do any of the rest of you also skip reading the posts from premies ( or wish you could) ?
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Date: Tues, Apr 07, 1998 at 11:03:18 (EDT)
From: Rick
Email: rtaraday@hotmail.com
To: John K.
Subject: Premies please don't read!
Message:
Yes, guilty as charged. I go back and forth from being able to tolerate the inane reasoning; sometimes it's just fascinating that someone can think that way (and that I used to), and sometimes it's just irritating. When I skip the posts, I'll usually read the responses, sometimes for a whole thread. The premies who hold their cards close to the vest are the most irritating, and I find this NV character insidious. Funny you should mention this stuff, because I've felt particularly bored in the last few days. I much prefer to read bufoons like A Premie, Student, and Mili, than Bruce and NV (they seem like they could be more 'normal' but the programming is actually so deep it's almost inpenetrable). As I've had a hard time like you reading this garbage lately, I haven't posted much in response. I'm hoping I'll get back to loving to hate it, so I can post some more.
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Date: Tues, Apr 07, 1998 at 11:15:24 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Rick
Subject: Premies please don't read!
Message:
Want to hear something sicker? Sometimes the premies' posts are the ONLY ones I read. Sometimes I'll read them and work my way back up through my fellow mind-worshippers, us children of the corn.

Told you it was sick.
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Date: Tues, Apr 07, 1998 at 11:04:25 (EDT)
From: Scott T.
Email: None
To: John K.
Subject: Premies please don't read!
Message:
John:

Re: I know that I am usually not the only one doing
something. Usually what I think and feel is thought and
felt by many others. So, do any of the rest of you also
skip reading the posts from premies ( or wish you could)
?

I have to admit that I'm doing this more and more. Engaging in this same old rigmarole all the time feels like having my feet stuck in mud, or something of similar consistency. There are more substantive issues. MJ is a minor player. Talking about him allows me to deal with these larger issues sometimes, but usually the responses I get make me think that my time is being deliberately wasted by people who think their guru is of some great or ultimate significance. Out of frustration I started taking both sides of the debate, hoping that would inspire some of them to take a different tack. I interpret their inability to effectively engage as a form of demoralization. De-moralization.

-Scott
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Date: Tues, Apr 07, 1998 at 12:28:06 (EDT)
From: Robyn
Email: sundogs@hotmail.com
To: John K.
Subject: Premies please don't read!
Message:
Dear John,
I have skipped most of their post until recently, could it be my turn? I am quickly seeing the frustration and I won't expose myself to that for very long I'm sure. I have enough stress in my life without fabricating more. When I was a premie, we visited old folks homes and hospitals on a weekly basis but I don't think that was by M's direction but I feel good having done it. What is the point of confronting them. I was suprized to see CD's responce to a post of mine as I thought he was more reasonable. They do seem to shut down rather than defend M or their involvment with examples because they don't exist, I guess. It already feel like I'm getting ready to bang my head on a brick wall. I can see why Jim gets so angry I guess I just don't understand why he continues. It seems to be a large part of why he is here. I learned a long time ago that you can't change someone's mind, mine either, when it comes to such things but I guess we do it here for the benifit of any possible premie who might be open to the truth.
Robyn
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Date: Tues, Apr 07, 1998 at 12:50:30 (EDT)
From: Robyn
Email: sundogs@hotmail.com
To: Brian
Subject: To Brian-forumIII
Message:
Dear Brian,
I thought my post didn't go through and was lost so I posted another, same thing then as I was reading the posts in response to John K. there it was in the next post link. Was that just because it is a busy time right now or what.
Hey, I am listening to a very oldies station because it is all that comes in here. Sometimes it is good nestalgia and some times irritating, like posting to premies I guess but the song playing now is I Can See Clearly Now. Did any of you hear that song as one of M's favorites. I remember a band playing it in Miami outside on a beautiful day. It is giving me goose bumps!
Robyn
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Date: Tues, Apr 07, 1998 at 13:00:26 (EDT)
From: Robyn
Email: sundogs@hotmail.com
To: Brian
Subject: To Brian-Inernet Explorer!^$*%
Message:
Brian,
Sorry about that I guess it was IE, now I'm in Netscape and it seems fine. So when are you going to code a browser, eh? Just kidding.
Robyn
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Date: Tues, Apr 07, 1998 at 16:24:27 (EDT)
From: Brian
Email: brian@ex-premie.org
To: Robyn
Subject: You lost me
Message:
I don't see any duplicate post anywhere, if that's what you meant. The Forum rejects re-posted posts, so we won't have the problem that was constantly with us on Paradise.

Maybe you just think you posted twice. Do you see a duplicate, cause I don't...

Hmmm.. the preview page needs repair. I'll do it later tonight.
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Date: Tues, Apr 07, 1998 at 18:39:51 (EDT)
From: Robyn
Email: sundogs@hotmail.com
To: Brian
Subject: You lost me
Message:
Brian,
No I don't see a duplicate but when I posted the first one I was left out in limbo and realized it was Internet Explorer but before I did I went back with my bookmark to ex-premie.org and reposted so now I know why 2 didn't show up. See as it turned out I didn't need to tell you at all but then I couldn't retract the post. Sorry 'bout that.
Robyn
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Date: Tues, Apr 07, 1998 at 12:32:46 (EDT)
From: eb
Email: None
To: John K.
Subject: Premies please don't read!
Message:
Dear John K.,

During the past few months, I have read premies' posts trying to understand what the new programming is that keeps the premies so loyal. Without nightly satsang, darshan, and believing Maharaji to be God, I could not have been as tenacious as the premies who post here. Prior to receiving knowledge, I had many experiences of seeing light, even as young as 3-years old. (I remember telling my dad that I was talking to God [the light] and he just kept on shaving. Probably thought his daughter was nuts).

Anyway, when I met up with Maharaji and received knowledge, I actually thought that I had found God in human form because he showed me the same light. Now, just as when I was a child, I see light without using the technique. I definitely have an experience I consider quite cosmic--sort of connects me up to the universe. But I don't attribute it to Maharaji. I can get there doing all sorts of meditations, and sometimes none at all--it just shows up.

eb
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Date: Tues, Apr 07, 1998 at 15:34:32 (EDT)
From: Still Crazy
Email: None
To: eb
Subject: Premies please don't read!
Message:
Thanks, eb!

This is the first 'history' on this forum that I have been
able to relate to.

I heard 'music' for many years before I received Knowledge,
and 'meditated' on it as an insomnia cure.

I first saw light about 2 years before I received Knowledge,
and sought actively for a way to experience it at will.

When Maharaji showed me how to do this, I also thought he
was an avatar. 'God is great, but greater is Guru because
he can reveal God.' Since he revealed to me what I had seen
before and knew was true, it was proof for me that he was
also true.

I stopped using the 'techniques' about 6 months after I
received Knowledge, but followed Maharaji for 25 years,
meditating pretty much constantly.

As for why I kept following him after his 'undeification,'
it's because I saw him as a person who works very hard to
ensure that I had a beneficial experience of Knowledge.

-Still
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Date: Tues, Apr 07, 1998 at 12:41:48 (EDT)
From: JW
Email: None
To: John K.
Subject: Premies please don't read!
Message:
I also can relate to how you feel, John. It's not only that the programming is so stubborn, but it's also kind of sickening because it hits close to home, in that I used to say the same stuff and speak in the same dishonest ways I see premies speaking now.

Like you mentioned, when I wrote and argued the 'pro-Maharaji' side down below, it was kind of weird, because I saw how easily the programming can be switched back on and, living in the compartmentalized world that premies live in, it could appear to make perfect sense.

But I think I am a fairly stubborn person as well, and, also, I have always been the kind of person who learns best through dialogue, kind of a dialectic method. The permies can serve the function of throwing out some ridiculous rationalization and I can respond to it, sometimes from different angles, and I enjoy and find that helpful to my own thinking. But I do feel at times I start repeating myself and that can also get old. At that point I usually take some time off, only coming back to it when it again is enjoyable and interesting.

However, I still maintain that non-premies, and premies who are questioning, do read these posts and just expressing your true feelings about Maharaji and his cult can be immensely helpful to them. As I think we all experienced, ridding yourself of the cult programming, leaving Maharaji and the premies, can be a very lonely and somewhat scary experience. I really believe the prospect of that gets a lot of people to stay involved. Having some support from others who can simply state those feelings is invaluable. I wish something like this site had been around when I left back in 1983.

The other thing that keeps me going is that occasionally I will get an e-mail from someone who has never posted and will say something like: 'I just wanted to thank you for posting on the ex-premie forum. It has really helped me see through the nonsense I have been involved in and got me off the fence and into thinking for myself.' (or something similar to that). I keep thinking that person could have been me, and getting a communication like that really can give me a lift and keep me going.

Also, I doubt I could have even done this 10 or 15 years ago. It took time, and gaining more confidence in myself as an individual before I could really say how I feel about all this stuff without feeling emotionally devestated.

Yes, it was a bizarre cult. Yes, Maharaji is a fraud because he isn't what he has portrayed himself to be, and, yes, devotion and submission to another person that you don't even know is inherently destructive to one's spirit as a human being. And, yes, I don't think Maharaji is a very nice person and/or worthy of my love and devotion in any event, nor does he even give a shit about his devotees, except to the extent they support him and feed his pathological need to be worshipped. And I think those of us who know this need to keep saying it. I think we owe that to ourselves and the time we wasted following Maharaji.
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Date: Wed, Apr 08, 1998 at 02:52:07 (EDT)
From: Joy
Email: Bluebirdd@aol.com
To: JW
Subject: Premies please don't read!
Message:
Joe, I just wanted to say I really enjoyed your 'reverse' posts with Jim. I often think people here get a little too locked into their positions and it'd be fun for, say, Jim and Mili to reverse mindsets and post as a premie and ex, respectively. Might help them be less argumentative. (But then again, a good argument can be kind of fun...)
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Date: Wed, Apr 08, 1998 at 12:04:52 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Joy
Subject: Premies please don't read!
Message:
Joy,

I know you mean well but I don't think I need any therapy or exercises to 'help [me] be less argumentative.'

What I MIGHT need is a change of scenery.
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Date: Wed, Apr 08, 1998 at 12:13:52 (EDT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Premies please don't read!
Message:
Dear Jim -
I'm curious about what kind of 'change of scenery' you mean? Actual (a move or vacation) or electronic (get off the forum for a while)? Or something else.

regards from Katie

P.S. I still want to hear your 'satsang'!
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Date: Wed, Apr 08, 1998 at 13:51:15 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: Premies please don't read!
Message:
Katie,

Said in a fit of tepid pique, I meant 'who needs this shit?'

Jim
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Date: Tues, Apr 07, 1998 at 13:35:05 (EDT)
From: Mili
Email: mili@cheerful.com
To: John K.
Subject: Premies please don't read!
Message:
'The essence of its corruption is manifested in that they do nothing for anyone. When I was involved, the only focus was the guru. Everyone and everything else in the world was meaningless except for him. I believe it is still that way.'

I spent five years working as an occupational therapist with autistic adults - feeding them, dressing them and washing their shit and puke.

Then I spent four years working in UNICEF with war orphans from Bosnia, tracking their parents down if they were still alive.

Now I am working in adult education - computer literacy for people who are desperate to get a job.
I pay my taxes.

Fuck you, John K.
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Date: Tues, Apr 07, 1998 at 14:09:20 (EDT)
From: Scott T.
Email: None
To: Mili
Subject: Mili ventures anyway...
Message:
Mili:

Although I can't speak for John, what I think he meant was that they do nothing as premies. I recall visiting mental hospitals with other premies in Mass., and Ronna Hoffman and her friends used to translate for the deaf in L.A. There were a lot of well meaning and good people in DLM, who also did a great deal for others. My guess is that these people would have been doing that whether they were with Maharaji or not, although being a member of a group probably facilitated that. I can't speak to what has become of those sorts of community activities, but I daresay that they went out with the demise of the Ashrams. That's only speculation however. BTW, the correct spelling is Phuque. It's an old english word, I believe. Wan that Aprille... :-)

-Scott
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Date: Tues, Apr 07, 1998 at 15:14:38 (EDT)
From: Rick
Email: rtaraday@hotmail.com
To: Everyone
Subject: Mili ventures anyway...
Message:
If I remember correctly, isn't there a line in Arti that says something to the effect that 'charity won't bring the experience of God' (and also austerity and whole host of other things)?
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Date: Thurs, Apr 09, 1998 at 01:24:49 (EDT)
From: Mirabai
Email: None
To: Scott T.
Subject: Mili ventures anyway...
Message:
I've never considered that it was Ms' role to tell us what to do in our lives....to be do gooders or evil doers.........We are not

children and have to work these things out for ourselves.........What good is M doing?....Isn't it obvious?.........Travelling the world giving teqniques so people can go within and discover for themselves.
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Date: Tues, Apr 07, 1998 at 17:04:54 (EDT)
From: Paula
Email: None
To: Mili
Subject: mili angel life
Message:
Hi Mili...

it is just to remind you that ex-premie web site, as it says itself, is not to say good things of Maharaji.

also.....

in the introdutory page of the forum.... there is an advertisement to premies about the content of the Forum.

also again, when John K wrote his message, on the topic it was 'premies don't read it'.... I don't know if you noticed.....

why don't you start a premie newsgroups or webforum to discuss how marvellous is M?

when you said 'fuck you'... it did not seem you were a person that is in touch to something magic. More than that, it seemed someone very hurt. Why do you need to read this stuff?

isn't it more simple to you live your life and watch videos, and practice?

also... I kept thinking.... why premies acess this web site so oftenly? one of the POSSIBILITIES is: they are not sure if their master is as good as they say, so they try to convince people to convince themselves. Of course, don't take it seriously, I am not talking about you.

don't waste your time here.... go and be a good person to earth as you say you are.

ps: some people that do charity never has to tell how good they are, in any occasion.
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Date: Tues, Apr 07, 1998 at 20:26:40 (EDT)
From: Robyn
Email: sundogs@hotmail.com
To: Paula
Subject: mili angel life
Message:
Dear Paula,
I just love the way your mind works!
Robyn
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Date: Tues, Apr 07, 1998 at 22:35:31 (EDT)
From: Paula
Email: None
To: Robyn
Subject: to Robyn
Message:
Dear Robin... thank you for your words about me. I didn't expect, and... also... I tell you...I got embarassed because I never learned how to accept a good comment about me.

ps: I enjoy reading your posts too :)
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Date: Tues, Apr 07, 1998 at 14:25:21 (EDT)
From: premie
Email: None
To: John K.
Subject: Premies please don't read!
Message:
I feel the same when I hear ex.s whinning all the time.
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Date: Tues, Apr 07, 1998 at 16:18:57 (EDT)
From: Scott T.
Email: None
To: premie
Subject: Premies please don't read!
Message:
premie:

Re:
I feel the same when I hear ex.s whinning all the time.


It's spelled 'winning.' I looked it up.

-Scott T.
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Date: Tues, Apr 07, 1998 at 20:31:22 (EDT)
From: David
Email: djulian@cix.compulink.co.uk
To: Scott T.
Subject: I like it, Scott
Message:
Very clever, the winning/whining but such whet wit may be lost on premie. Our Doctor Johnson has a lot to answer for with his damn dictionary.
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Date: Tues, Apr 07, 1998 at 18:12:56 (EDT)
From: Katie
Email: petkat@mail.trib.net
To: John K.
Subject: Premies please don't read!
Message:
Hi John,
Yes, I also skip the posts from premies (or wish I could), unless I think they really want to have a conversation with me. I dislike arguing with premies about Maharaji. Although I try and respect the beliefs and experiences of the premies that post here, it's hard for me to believe that people could still be following Maharaji after 20 years or however long.

I really prefer to read and answer posts from the other ex-premies who post here. I do think this forum has been a great support group for us ex-premies, for a number of reasons. It's really hard for people who were not premies to know what being a premie was like, so it's been helpful to me to talk to other people about it. I just walked away from the whole experience 20 years ago and never really spoke about it to anyone until I found the forum.

Also, as you know, I and others have had premie friends that killed themselves, had nervous breakdowns, suffered agonies of guilt and so forth because of their doubts about themselves and Maharaji. I think the ex-premie site & forum would have helped a lot of these people, and that's one of the reasons that I participate in it. I have gotten a lot of positive feedback from other ex-premies (both those who post on the site, and those who just read it), and I do believe that the posts on here really help people.

I am not sure WHY the premies post on here so lengthily. I suppose that they want to protect Maharaji and give their own point of view to any aspirants or wavering premies who might be reading the site. If I was a premie, I doubt if I would read and/or post on here - I agree with your 'fruitcake' analogy!

John, I have really liked your posts - some of them have helped me a lot - and I really hope that you do keep posting about your own experiences, even if you don't read the premie posts.

Take care,
Katie
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Date: Thurs, Apr 09, 1998 at 01:40:51 (EDT)
From: Mirabai
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: Premies please don't read!
Message:
Hi Katie,I recieved knowledge 13 years ago and am amazed that you left 20 years ago...I understand that so much has changed since those days...I go on forum because I think that communication is something that is vital and there have not been any outlets for sharing ones views regarding M an EV. Both negative and postitive...I am not a premie, I am a human being....I don't fit into any boxes and don't feel the need to be one. Katie,have you watched new videos from a fresh perspective?...I've never had to go through all the nonsense that apparently went on in those days....it's true that a lot of people who are attracted to a person like M , have low self esteems and do not know how to think for themselves.but so called premies cannot be put into a box just because they have an association with M.People seem to interpret things in the way that best suits them.
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Date: Tues, Apr 07, 1998 at 19:19:11 (EDT)
From: VP
Email: None
To: John K.
Subject: Premies please don't read!
Message:
John K.,
I get sick of the same old fights, too. It gets to where I feel like I want to get away from the forum. I do read the premie posts-all of them. I think Katie and JW were right when they said it's important for ex-premies here to support each other and the silent readers. Some people wonder what I'm doing even posting here since I wasn't a premie, but I think there are probably other aspirant readers out there, as well. John K., for what it is worth, you really make me laugh, so keep posting! VP
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Date: Tues, Apr 07, 1998 at 20:32:37 (EDT)
From: Katie
Email: petkat@mail.trib.net
To: VP
Subject: Premies please don't read!
Message:
Dear VP,
I also think it's very important for aspirants (or ex-aspirants, or just interested observers) to post, so please keep on. Your posts are great! I can't imagine anyone questioning why you would post here, by the way, unless they thought you weren't reflecting well on M.
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Date: Mon, Apr 06, 1998 at 23:07:41 (EDT)
From: Brian
Email: brian@ex-premie.org
To: Everyone
Subject: Tweaking the Indentation
Message:
If you've seen the messages in the index inching left, it's because I'm trying to keep the date stuff from wrapping.

I started with 3 underscores per reply level and a limit of 15. Then I chopped it down to 2 underscores with a limit of 25. Now it's at 1 underscore with a limit of 50. Yet Jim and Mili continue to march right.

Let me know if you think it looks too hard to figure out which replies go to which posts, cause I can increase the indentation again.
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Date: Sun, Apr 05, 1998 at 14:18:44 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Calling Mr Ex
Message:
Mr Ex,

Would you please email me when you get a chance?

Thanks,

Jim
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Date: Sun, Apr 05, 1998 at 18:29:56 (EDT)
From: Mr Ex
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Calling Mr Ex
Message:
Yes sir!
I was out for the weekend, I'll do that in a few hours
I'm not sure I stll have your address
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Date: Sun, Apr 05, 1998 at 18:44:32 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: heller@bc1.com
To: Mr Ex
Subject: Calling Mr Ex
Message:
Mr Ex,

I've changed it. It's now heller@bc1.com

Please don't give it to anyone, though.

Thanks,

Jim
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Date: Mon, Apr 06, 1998 at 03:55:17 (EDT)
From: Mr Ex
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Calling Mr Ex!!!!!
Message:
What's this?
You're asking me not to give your e-mail to anyone,
and you post it!
Brian, could you please confirm me Jim' address by e-mail?
thank you
PS: Jim, I just sent you an e-mail in your old mail box
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Date: Mon, Apr 06, 1998 at 06:16:28 (EDT)
From: Brian
Email: brian@ex-premie.org
To: Mr Ex
Subject: Calling Mr Ex!!!!!
Message:
You're just trying to trick me into revealing my email address!
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Date: Mon, Apr 06, 1998 at 09:00:31 (EDT)
From: Mr Ex
Email: None
To: Brian
Subject: What's this confusion?
Message:
Ok Brian,
I'll send you an e-mail,
who's trying to trick who?

Someone's pissed off?
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Date: Mon, Apr 06, 1998 at 11:42:34 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Mr Ex
Subject: What's this confusion?
Message:
Mr Ex,

Sorry... bad joke.

Look, I emailed you at your old # and it didn't work. That's all.

I am at heller@bc1.com

Thanks,

Jim
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Date: Mon, Apr 06, 1998 at 12:14:28 (EDT)
From: Mr Ex
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Still a little paranoid!
Message:
So why don't you ask Brian for my e-mail?

I've changed my provider.
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Date: Mon, Apr 06, 1998 at 15:32:15 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: heller@bc1.com
To: Mr Ex
Subject: Still a little paranoid!
Message:
Brian,

Would you?

Thanks,

Jim
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Date: Wed, Apr 08, 1998 at 07:38:09 (EDT)
From: Brian
Email: brian@ex-premie.org
To: Jim
Subject: Put my name in the subject
Message:
I vouched for you, Jim. You should have heard something by now. (And you owe me BIGTIME for this.)

Also, if you want my attention drawn to a particular post, be sure to put my name in the subject field. I'm always on the lookout for people notifying me of a problem with the forum/site so I tend to scan for that first. I don't read every post.
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