Ex-Premie.Org |
Forum III Archive # 1 | |
From: Apr 4, 1998 |
To: Apr 11, 1998 |
Page: 1 Of: 5 |
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Date: Thurs, Apr 09, 1998 at 10:48:47 (EDT)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Everyone Subject: That Program/Event Fix Message: To All, Last night while I wasn't falling asleep I was thinking about the numerous posts by ex's talking about their past and premies about today, speak of getting that extra 'boost' of Grace from M at programs keeping them going until the next event. I never saw it that way or maybe just never thought about it but upon reflection I think it had much more to do with the group consciousness. I do believe in that. We were all, or at least a good percentage, focused on meditation and feeling good and it filled the air! Like an infectious good mood. Robyn Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Apr 09, 1998 at 12:00:55 (EDT)
From: eb Email: None To: Robyn Subject: That Program/Event Fix Message: Hi Robyn. I was absolutely addicted to programs, especially the ones with darshan. And three days after I was back home, I would crash... sometimes less hard than others. I remember that I felt 'swept up' in grace (the only way I can describe it) from the time I decided to go to a program until I got back home and had to deal with a crazy alcoholic husband, kids, and poverty. Programs allowed me to escape a very dismal life. The addictive cycle was truly there--I was a junkie and Maharaji was my fix. Sincerely, eb Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Apr 09, 1998 at 16:57:40 (EDT)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: eb Subject: That Program/Event Fix Message: eb, Thanks for responding but what do you think about the whole feeling of it not having anything to do with M but anticipation of that good feeling you thought of as grace at the time really being the collective energy of all those people feeling good and meditating. The feeling was REAL it was just not from M and to me just proves the power we all had to create all that great energy! I've never posted to you but just wanted to let you know I have enjoyed reading the things you have to say and am glad for your additional female 'energy' on the forum. Robyn Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Apr 09, 1998 at 22:21:14 (EDT)
From: eb Email: None To: Robyn Subject: That Program/Event Fix Message: Thanks Robin. I enjoy your posts too. I lurked for many months before posting because I get my feelings hurt easily (especially written words), and I was afraid of getting flamed. The more I read, the more comfortable I've become with where I'm at with M. now. Regarding the group high, I agree with you that the collective meditation of thousands of people created the good vibes, not M. Perhaps that was another aspect of the addiction for me--it was so easy to get blissed out. Now, I theorize that my experiences of grace prior to going to festivals came from within me. I used to believe I had some outrageous coincidences happening during those times: finding lots of money, getting free rides, personal darshan moments. I used these happenings as fodder for the times I gave satsang in my home community. In retrospect, I did an awful lot of begging from relatives and friends; spent lots of time in Western Union offices picking up wired money. During the late 80's, I studied Science of Mind, Zen, Rebirthing, and what I now call new-age hooey hooey. (I took what worked for me, left the rest, and created my own religion. My dogma changes anytime I learn something new or find another method gets me to that blissful state). Robyn, I enjoy group meditations more than sitting by myself, actually. There's a wonderful hatha yoga teacher here where I work whose class gets me where I truly like to be (in bliss) but without the ball and chain of devotion. Thanks for being there. eb Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Apr 10, 1998 at 03:46:07 (EDT)
From: bb Email: bill52@rocketmail.com To: eb Subject: That Forum Fix Message: Hi EB, I look for your initials every day. I was wondering, bruce said I was full of s___ because I said at local and regional events I was requested to send money to m for his house rebuilding project, for money to buy the land around his malibu house, ect. Yurim weiss and another couple guys whose names I have somewhere used to come to the northeast and hold every six month events where they would 'update' us on m's needs. Did this happen where you were? Phone calls, ect. I distinctly remember them mentioning that bob mishler turned down an opportunity to buy this same land back in the seventies. At first they intimated that he was dumb and it was because of money concerns. Later in the same event they said that mishler probably did that because m said around that time that he wanted a different house-so why buy more property. Which brings up another issue, if I am full of s___, what does that mean? If m is showing people thier own divinity then what is the thing that makes us go bad like we have? Still the 'mind'? I guess. Kind of a weak theology for the lord to bring. He makes excuses for his own rages against people, so I guess all we have to do is make excuses for ourselves. I have to go back to bed. Goodnight EB, I wish you the best and I felt for you and your story of the trauma of leaving. Happy Easter! Sometimes I can't get here for a couple days, and sometimes it takes me a few days more to catch up on the posts. Sometimes I want to say 'wow' or thanks for the insight or I agree or offer some support but either the posts are to far behind, or I am pressed for time, or I wonder if I should flood the forum with my numerous impulses to post little thanks and whatnots. So anyway, I thank everyone for thier participation and you all really are of great help. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Apr 10, 1998 at 13:11:49 (EDT)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: bb Subject: That Forum Fix Message: Dear bb, I know you are just upset because you didn't have enough posts to get an award from participante! Robyn Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Apr 10, 1998 at 13:35:36 (EDT)
From: eb Email: None To: bb Subject: That Forum Fix Message: bb, Like you, my visits to the forum are infrequent. I would love to be able to respond to more threads--some with a resounding 'Ho' meaning that I agree (in Choctaw) or a dumbstruck 'Huh'? I don't remember reading the post wherein Bruce says you're full of s___, but from reading your post, it sounds as though he did not believe that we were asked to support M's various projects back in the old DLM days. We were, of course. I remember once our community coordinator met with each premie in the community to ascertain his or her ability to tithe on a monthly basis. He was talking 10% of our gross income. Husband #1 and I agreed to pay, but 10% of nothing is nothing, so I don't have much resentment on this score. I would be much more angry right now had I left my kids and moved into the ashram. Thank you for your kind words. Have a great weekend. eb Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Apr 10, 1998 at 13:03:58 (EDT)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: eb Subject: That Program/Event Fix Message: Dear eb, I to feel like I am/have been creating my own 'religion' but I hate that word, I think of it as my own personal path that also changes with each new discovery that seems to make sence to me. I don't have time to really get into this now but just wanted to at least say that. Robyn Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Apr 10, 1998 at 03:20:37 (EDT)
From: bill Email: .l,kmjhg To: Robyn Subject: That Program/Event Fix Message: Hi Robyn, I didn't forget your post from way down below. I have been thinking about it. talk to you later. bill Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Apr 09, 1998 at 17:40:17 (EDT)
From: Rick Email: None To: Robyn Subject: That Program/Event Fix Message: Robyn, I certainly remember the high at programs, and the high I got from maharaji's satsang. I still don't understand it. It would be comfortable to write it off as a group consciousness but I never experienced it in any other setting, like a concert. All the effort, concentration and expectation could have given the experience an extra boost, or I could still be blinded by residual brainwashing. But in the end, I decided to quit the guru despite the high I got from his satsang. It was too damn expensive to feel like that for a few days. To me, the real test was if I could maintain the high (or even some high) on an ongoing or frequent basis. I didn't realize it till much later, but as time went on, I buried more and more feelings (as per maharaji's and initiator's instructions) and I think that made it even harder to get 'high'. At best, I could escape the pain of life for a few hours in a given day, but most of the time it would probably be around an hour (including satsang and meditation). Service just gave me anxiety. In the end, it wasn't really a decision to leave, I was just so discouraged I couldn't go on. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Apr 10, 1998 at 04:40:25 (EDT)
From: Mirabai Email: None To: Rick Subject: Group high,to everyone& Rick Message: Rick,I found your post very interesting. A lot of people seem to get on that kind of 'high'. One of the reasons for it... it would seem to me is that people in general are not very committed to going within and being real. People will get very enthused and excited when they know M is coming to town and they will get in touch with themselves on a deeper level,but at the same time they suppress the pain that is within so they feel a sense of highness which is not realistic....It is not realistic because they are not being inward for their general day to day living. To go inside is not an easy task,we have to get through all the junk and pain that we're so attached to. People come back to earth when they get back home...back to the reality of how uncommitted they are to themselves.I would not be so skeptical of the deeper,profound experiences that one had, but just to realize the whole picture that is unfolding. Mirabai Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Apr 10, 1998 at 12:36:05 (EDT)
From: Rick Email: None To: Mirabai Subject: Group high,to everyone& Rick Message: You must be joking. It wasn't for any lack of committment to attain bliss, that this phenonema occurred. One of the problems was that the instructions from maharaji were all wrong. His instructions weren't to go through any junk and pain we're attached to, but 'to practice knowledge and put any problem you had in your back pocket. The initiators, as well, put forth this teaching; they often advised ignoring the uncomfortable feelings that came up for people. Maharaji's teachings were all about 'suppressing pain'. He never once advised to find out what the pain was by feeling it or scrutinizing it. In one of his very early satsangs, he described knowledge as a 'hovercraft', which is a boat which kind of flies about an inch above the water. The comparison was that knowledge was like that, because we need something to fly above the pain. And we all know the analogy of being like a lotus. It's a prescription for denial and unhappiness. Another of maharaji's (and Eastern religion's) fallacies is that attachment is the source of pain. It's a philosophy rooted in denial and it encourages denial. Mirabai, your statement, I would not be so skeptical of the deeper,profound experiences that one had, but just to realize the whole picture that is unfolding. is a good example of the schizophrenic programming that saturates the premie experience. The word just in your sentence is a common premie programming that relieves you from having to actually examine and account for results. Pictures of complete happiness don't just unfold. It's the same cult technique that's used in this life, or that love. Always beware when you hear just this or just that. People feel better when they have what they want, or realize something, or uncover and resolve something that's bothering them. In my case, I'm not skeptical of the profound experience, I'm skeptical that maharaji can deliver on his description of knowledge. It is more complicated than you describe; knowledge isn't just a bliss inside, it's a method of attaining that bliss that promotes denying one's feelings and encourage's ignoring things and people that you care about. That's one reason it doesn't work. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Apr 10, 1998 at 13:23:03 (EDT)
From: JW Email: None To: Rick Subject: Group high,to everyone& Rick Message: Excellent analysis, Rick, it certainly rang true for me. Thanks for that. I guess I haven't thought it through like you have, but it really is true that so many code words used in the cult simply go unscrutinized. I didn't know why, but for a long time when I heard the words, especially when M said them, like 'that love, that joy', etc., I got a sick feeling in my stomach. They are meaningless terms that do nothing but supress ones self-awareness. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Apr 10, 1998 at 13:38:39 (EDT)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Rick Subject: Group high,to everyone& Rick Message: Dear Rick, I think to that I have always been one who questions, motives, reality, authority so I would not just put my pain in my back pocket no matter what anyone told me. This is from my childhood so I did stick with my intellect while I was with M. Also I was very involved with the meditation at the time and work hard at it in the respect to time spent and effort made thoughtout the day. Robyn Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Apr 11, 1998 at 00:02:29 (EDT)
From: Mirabai Email: None To: Rick Subject: Group high,to everyone& Rick Message: Rick I have found Maharajis' emphasis on joy to be somewhat disturbing and lopsided and open to all sorts of interpretation. There seem to be subtle cosequences of this sort of communication. M has not stopped me from scrutinizing and looking and so on. But I have felt that it has influenced people to try to hide their pain and appear blissed out when they are not. M talks a lot about hunger and thirst which I understand to mean the pain that we feel for the inner quenching that we have lost touch with. I can definitely relate to those words...But words can be so misleading and powerful..Sometimes,i wish he'd be more direct about the pain that we need to feel. I've never actually heard M say anything to indicate that we should suppress our bad feelings.... My life has unfolded..very slowly but surely,through going within and allowing my 'stuff' to dissolve bit by bit. Your interpretation of me having been programmed like other premies is a touch presumptuous to my way of thinking. I've had to work very hard in my life.Unfolding is a word that means more than just sitting back and thinking bliss will just occur out of the blue. In my inderstanding,I can see that attachment to finite things can cause a lot of pain to us as human beings. I have dealt with this issue in my own way. Certainly not by trying to live up to anyone elses ideas on the subject though. That's part of what I refer to as part of bding honest about what one really is on the inside. I have respected my desires and not tried to suppress them. Denial is not a healthy thing,that's for sure. I've managed to achieve some sort of ballance in my life regarding feeling the pain of longing and going within on the one hand and on the other hand fulfilling my desires and when I look at my life I can see that this has been a very constructive way. Regardless of all the messages that I've heard from M,I've always heard that I am to find my own way where it most counts. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Apr 11, 1998 at 01:16:50 (EDT)
From: Rick Email: None To: Mirabai Subject: Group high,to everyone& Rick Message: Here's the thing, Mirabai... without actually bringing out specific quotes, maharaji basically said to concentrate on knowledge by doing satsang, service and meditation. He said to not concentrate on 'maya' which includes emotions, and thoughts, because concentrating on maya brings suffering. If you don't concentrate on your emotions and thoughts, you can't actually process them in any way. It wasn't so much that he instructed to suppress pain, as to ignore it. But it's basically the same thing. This idea isn't really unique to maharaji and knowledge, it's common to alot of Eastern religion and gurus, swamis, etc. I think you hit the nail on the head, when you used the word 'balance'. The ideas of Eastern religion are that 'spirit' is more divine than emotions, worldly pleasures and desires. Certainly spirit is very important and a part of a bigger picture, but consider that emotions and worldly pleasures (which naturally bring attachment) are also just as divine. I think it is a judgment that we make, that spirit is higher, more superior, and more divine than the other aspects of the universe (I hate that word). The attachment that happens may be the result of a more complicated and deeper process than 'worldly pleasures bring attachment, worldly pleasures are to be dissolved'. There are really two discussions taking place here; one is about maharaji and knowledge, and the other is about a broader subject of spiritualty. You've gleaned the best you could find of different 'paths' and perhaps overlooked aspects of maharaji and knowledge, while trying to take the best. I'm trying to address the things you overlooked in maharaji that invalidate his legitimacy, while those same things overlap into other disciplines and teachings that don't share the same invalidity. I wasn't trying to say you're programmed like most premies were, particularly before the mid-eighties. After reading some of your posts, it seems like you kind of 'grazed' on maharaji and knowledge. You're more devoted to your pursuit of spirituality than specifically maharaji and knowledge. I think what I meant to say is that you're ignoring the programming that exists in the teaching of knowledge by maharaji. Rick Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Apr 10, 1998 at 13:33:43 (EDT)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@ To: Rick Subject: That Program/Event Fix Message: Rick, I have experienced a group 'high' at concerts before, not the same as when all the people involved are meditating though. I am not saying these are facts but just my impressions. The crowd mentality, if you've ever heard of that. The anticipational high to me is just that, the anticipation combined with meditating. Where you in an ashram? I did not have all that guilt put on me thankfully. I grew up Catholic and Italian and at the time I got into M I was in a breaking away from my parents mode and would not have accepted guilt from anyone. I'm sorry you had such feelings of desperation but at least it got you out and now you are working on healing. Robyn Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Apr 10, 1998 at 13:58:21 (EDT)
From: Rick Email: None To: Robyn Subject: That Program/Event Fix Message: Robyn, I wasn't in an ashram but I might as well have been. I really took it to heart that maharaji knew what he was talking about and tried to follow his lead in practicing knowledge. That was the source of the guilt. I think if someone tries to do what he prescribes it will cause guilt. I remember premies who were as you describe yourself. I was always envious because they were having a good time, and I was secretly judgmental and pissed off because they weren't practicing knowledge the 'right' way. Of course, you were doing the right thing. Good on you for being a human being and not an android. Rick Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Apr 09, 1998 at 22:04:38 (EDT)
From: Selena Email: None To: Everyone Subject: That Program/Event Fix Message: Hi I was thinking about the posts here and many people having that experience of the high of an event and the crash after. I just returned from Mexico. It was very different than going to one of those things in that I didn't have huge expectations, just wanted to relax and see the ocean and eat seafood. and, when I got home there wasn't that awful let down feeling I have so often felt after one of those events. I think a lot of the high we got/get is different for everyone. I used to love going and have all this experience of love when I really believed there was something special about M, that he was more than the rest of us. Once I stopped being able to convince myself of that I didn't like going. The last 2 or three times ranged from uncomfortable to awful. As for the crash, I imagine everyone feels it, when they get home to real life and can't possible recreate the same experience generated by all that 'energy' of a huge group of 'true believers'? Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Apr 10, 1998 at 04:49:49 (EDT)
From: Mirabai Email: None To: Selena Subject: That Program/Event Fix,Selena Message: Selena,could you please read my response to Rick,this would also be my response to you....Yes,it is easier when we are with like-minded people,that is a nice experience...But I do aspire towards that deeper,divine experience that I know I can have within me. It is an enormous challenge for all of us to do this in the world as it is,no doubt. Maharaji or anyone else could never do it for us....Inspire,point their finger......we have to do the rest...It really is a hard road to travel. Mirabai Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Apr 09, 1998 at 22:27:16 (EDT)
From: John K. Email: None To: Robyn Subject: That Program/Event Fix Message: Yes, they were exciting for a while, then I got to the point where I had no interest or enthusiasm for them. I mean, think about it. I left in 1982. Since then I have had zero, I mean ZERO interest in ever seeing another convention hall ever again. Isn't that kind of strange? I really am surprised by that. I really believe I was under the spell of an evil power, and now that I am freed from it, it's impossible for me to look back on that experience with any fondness at all. Like, what the hell ever happened at these festivals? Listening to endless satsang from initiator after initiator, on and on and on. (BTW, what's happened to On Anand ji?) What was all that satsang about other than brainwashing us? Each initiator trying to surrender, trying to express the ultimate devotional statement. The great river of satsang that we used to allow ourselves to flow in was a process of forcing ourselves to sit there and turn off the mind forever, trying to achieve a state of perfect surrender. Sitting in a hall with thousands of other people who you are not allowed to be friendly with, or become close to, listening to hours and hours of talk about one subject. I am not exaggerating about the fact that friendships were discouraged. In fact, I heard M say that same thing in one of the videos I saw last year. 'Don't come to see people you have not seen in 15 years, come to have an experience.' Why does he have to say that? Why can't you have the experience of K, which after all is our breath, and also hug a friend? I don't have a clue as to what M is talking about anymore. I don't think we are born into these human bodies to be afraid of each other taking away our experience of God! And if that experience of K is so fragile, is it really of value? If greeting a friend will spoil it, who needs it? The thing is Robyn as you well know, these events are still happening. People are still addicted to them. People are still ignoring the people they live with and are friends with so that they can run off to the next festival. Remember that person who wrote to us a while back saying her fiance, or lover, or husband, I forget now what their relationship was, but he could not commit to her because of having to attend the events. I think it's a serious addiction, and I think it seriously damages a person's ability to be a healthy, involved, interactive, human being. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Apr 10, 1998 at 00:47:36 (EDT)
From: Rick Email: None To: John K. Subject: That Program/Event Fix Message: John wrote: And if that experience of K is so fragile, is it really of value? If greeting a friend will spoil it, who needs it? Bloody well put. That should be framed. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Apr 10, 1998 at 13:51:30 (EDT)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Rick Subject: That Program/Event Fix Message: Dear Rick, That participante will earn his right to be here for sure. He'll have to make that frame! Robyn Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Apr 10, 1998 at 17:59:09 (EDT)
From: Selena Email: None To: Rick Subject: That Program/Event Fix Message: Thank you! That does say it all doesn't it? Nothing like having someone you thought was a friend tell you they don't want to spend time with you at an event because you are a 'distraction'. This happened to me, and i was really hurt at the time. Here I was on my best premie behavior and everything! Now I am beginning to understand the mentality that would cause someone to say something like that. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Apr 10, 1998 at 13:50:07 (EDT)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: John K. Subject: That Program/Event Fix Message: Dear John, I see your point and once again am thankful I didn't have that experience. I think part of why I didn't have a bad experience is that honorary blonde thing, really. If it didn't appeal to me I just discarded it, didn't internalize it and since no one was telling me how it was making them unhappy I never thought more about it. I never lost my friends or family (although I probably wouldn't have minded that at the time) and when I went to conventions in Miami I DID go for the social aspects and very much to see the sand and ocean and thought it was so nice of them to set up the convention to start at 1pm, giving me all morning to enjoy the BEACH! I think the difference between me and the premies who post here saying their experience is good so who cares, is that, OK I had a good experience but when I landed here a short time ago and saw all the pain M caused and continues to cause and his lack of caring it effects me and I think it is extremely relavent! Robyn Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Apr 10, 1998 at 15:47:19 (EDT)
From: John K. Email: None To: Robyn Subject: That Program/Event Fix Message: Yeah Robyn, you were much saner than me, I was an idiot, and I don't blame anyone but myself for my own stupid decisions and behavior. I did feel for many of the 10 years I was involved that I was doing the right thing. I thought I was involved in some great evolutionary inner re-birthing process - or something. Really, the reason I like this forum is that I find it so much fun to look at everything we did from this new perspective. It's funny, it's so absurd - it's entertaining. I think we should place a sign at the front of our forum or the top that says 'Beware all ye who enter. If you are not willing to question your guru don't even bother coming in here.' Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Apr 09, 1998 at 03:42:53 (EDT)
From: Vacol Email: None To: Everyone Subject: My Testimony..8 Message: Certainly given my temperament, it has a part of my path of learning to discover many great souls (in my estimation) besides M. M himself has mentioned others, but admittedly they are always no longer alive.....a flaw to my mind. The advantage of knowing and respecting others besides M is that a more balanced and less dogmatic perspective can be gained. I would like to take this opportunity to offer some suggested reading.....or welcome responses from those of you who already aquainted with them. All the works by Jiddu Krishnamurti. 'The Life Divine' by Sri Aurobindo. 'I AM THAT' by Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj. The writings of Kabir and Kahil Gibran..in this I concur with M. The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna. Talks with Sri Ramana Maharishi. Shankara's Vivekachoodamani by Swami Chinmayananda. The Upanashads. 'Cutting through spiritual materialism 'by Chogyam Trungpa. 'The seat of the Soul' by Gary Zukov. 'I and Thou' by Martin Buber 'The idea of the Holy' by Rudolf Otto. and 'The Archetypes and the Collective Unconscious' by Carl Jung. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Apr 09, 1998 at 05:43:54 (EDT)
From: Mr Ex Email: None To: Vacol Subject: Brian, mess in the index! Message: it looks like there is some mess in the index the 1st message of this thread doesn't show on the general index .... good luck Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Apr 09, 1998 at 07:43:48 (EDT)
From: Brian Email: brian@ex-premie.org To: Mr Ex Subject: Brian, mess in the index! Message: Do you mean Vacol's post My testimonty 8? I see it above this one. How could you reply to a post that isn't in the index?? You have to read it in order to reply, right?? I guess I don't understand what you saw (or didn't see) that led you to perceive a problem... If anyone else knows about this, will they please describe what was or wasn't there?? Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Apr 09, 1998 at 10:29:03 (EDT)
From: VP Email: None To: Vacol Subject: My Testimony..8 Message: 'Cutting through Spiritual Materialism'...does this book extoll the evils of selling coffee mugs and chocolate at spiritual programs??? Or of Masters owning jets and mansions? I guess M forgot to read this one. (Sorry, everyone, I couldn't resist!)VP Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Apr 09, 1998 at 11:30:34 (EDT)
From: John K. Email: None To: VP Subject: A spiritual lesson for VP Message: VP: I don't know how you can stoop to such a low level of humor. And actually expecting the Master to play along with our silly ideas and limited definitions of spirituality. The Master insisted on gold plated plumbing facilities for OUR benefit. To help us cut through OUR concepts about gold plated plumbing facilities. We attach our small, limited definition of any object and expect that to be the correct one! M is a Master who loves us so much he will sacrifice his own self image to teach us lessons we need to learn. Then he made the ultimate sacrifice and after the plane that he had us build out of our devotion was finally completed, he sold it. Again, it was for our benefit that he sold it. To teach us not to become attached to the fruits of our labors. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Apr 09, 1998 at 13:03:40 (EDT)
From: VP Email: None To: John K. Subject: A spiritual lesson for VP Message: John K., You are so right. A thousand apologies (snicker). Again, it is so easy to slip into the mind and to forget these lessons. VP Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Apr 09, 1998 at 14:30:40 (EDT)
From: JW Email: joger02@aol.com To: VP Subject: A spiritual lesson for VP Message: And you guys should add to your list that video that Maharaji made that clearly explains what John K was saying. I think it was Jim who thoughtfully brought it to our attention. If you recall, it is entitled: 'Maharaji: Why Such Things As Multiple Residences, Gold Plumbing Fixtures, A Fleet Of Luxury Cars, A Private Jet, And A Luxury Yacht Are Necessary To My Mission to Bring Peace And Joy To A World So Lost In Materialism.' I think it's available through Visions International. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Apr 09, 1998 at 15:35:51 (EDT)
From: VP Email: None To: JW Subject: A candle in the wind Message: I'll be ordering immediately. Hey, I was looking at some of the journal entries and yours is very obviously non-existant. It's really non of my buisness, except that I would like to read it. Will you be doing one? Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Apr 09, 1998 at 16:05:28 (EDT)
From: JW Email: joger02@aol.com To: VP Subject: A candle in the wind Message: I have been meaning to do one, that and finish the historical info for the website that I promised Brian I would do some time ago. I will, at some point, do both, I hope before too long. But thanks for asking. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Apr 09, 1998 at 16:58:50 (EDT)
From: Vacol Email: None To: VP Subject: My Testimony..8 Message: VP....yes,in a way cutting through spiritual materialism is (partly)exposing the games and excesses that are sanctioned by the term 'spiritual'. But M's supporters may counter claim that M's jet is an absolute necessity for him to travel the world......trying to bring Knowledge to as many people as possible. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Apr 09, 1998 at 18:59:59 (EDT)
From: VP Email: None To: Vacol Subject: My Testimony..8 Message: Vacol, This sounds like a good book. Thanks. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Apr 09, 1998 at 03:14:21 (EDT)
From: Vacol Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Jim, can the debate begin Message: Jim, if you are still willing to debate with me, could we perhaps begin with the issue of 'who is M?' and what do you most dislike about him? I will respond to you. Vacol. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Apr 09, 1998 at 11:15:19 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Vacol Subject: Sure Message: Hi V, Absolutely. Who is GMJ? Do you agree that he invited the world -- make that CHALLENGED the world -- to ask that question? Do you recall that he once welcomed scrutiny? (Gone for few hours. Look forward to your reply.) Jim Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Apr 09, 1998 at 15:46:22 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Jim Subject: Sure Message: V, Seeing as you haven't answered my other questions yet, may I interject with a preliminary query: why the pseudonym? Thanks, Jim Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Apr 09, 1998 at 17:00:52 (EDT)
From: John K. Email: None To: Jim Subject: Wake up Jim! Message: Jim: C'mon man, we're all rooting for you but you're letting our side down, you still have not answered V's original two questions in his first post above. He asked Who is GMJ and what do you dislike the most about him. I did not see you answer those questions. You came back with a question of your own which is a real no no, in my book. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Apr 09, 1998 at 17:34:30 (EDT)
From: Vacol Email: None To: Jim Subject: Sure Message: Jim, firstly we should realise that you got out in 1981 and I got in during 1982. Our experiences are coloured differently......history taints everything with a different hue. Personally I haven't heard M encourage premies to 'scrutinise' everything......In fact, I wish he would. And the challenge for us to ask this question...'who is M?' Again....not really, when did he challenge us in this way? I use the psuedonym Vacol in most internet dealings as a security factor until I feel comfortable . If this bothers you I could consider using my given name. What is my real name? is like a zen question anyway. Also, frustratingly....as I live in Australia....the time differances don't allow for an easy interflow of messages. It's 7.30 am now. Maharaji , in my 16 years of association with him , has never definitively expressed who he perceives himself to be . Never god, which I find amusing. It seems that in his earlier years in the west he somewhat naively got caught up in a lot of silly nomenclature.....spiritual -hippy style symbolism of the times. Perhaps I became involved on the tail-end of all that. I think I would have been really turned off by all of that stuff too if I had been involved back then .....but things move on. M is a human being, like us , who has made mistakes and learnt from them....hopefully. I am not excusing him.....we are have to live with the consequences of our pasts.....but simply pointing out that my relationship with M happens to postdate most of the stuff that you and most other ex-premies talk about. A question I would ask you Jim is .....do you believe that M really wants to help people ? or do you really believe that he is only self-seeking? Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Apr 09, 1998 at 17:43:34 (EDT)
From: Scott T. Email: None To: Vacol Subject: Sure Message: Vacol, Jim: A question I would ask you Jim is .....do you believe that M really wants to help people? or do you really believe that he is only self-seeking? Can't wait for the reply on that one! -Scott Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Apr 09, 1998 at 18:39:54 (EDT)
From: VP Email: None To: Scott T. Subject: Narcissus Message: Good point, Scott. Herein lies the key... Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Apr 09, 1998 at 18:04:41 (EDT)
From: Rick Email: None To: Vacol Subject: Sure Message: Vacol, May I join in here? Okay, anonyminity makes sense, but why choose a name that sounds like an antidepressent? I think you are making excuses for maharaji. First off, it would be reasonable for you to obtain and read a decent amount of maharaji's satsangs, from before you became a premie. A good portion of the position of many ex-premies pivots on his hypocrisy, and in order to understand that, you need to know the history. There's no question he claimed to be God many times and challenged the world to ask 'Who is Guru Maharaj Ji'. You just need to read the documents. Secondly, maharaji has claimed divinity since you've been a premie, and it is narrowsighted to only look at what you've actually heard with your own ears. In 1990 maharaji indicated he was God in a satsang he gave (someone here has the exact details... I think Jim), and last year maharaji had a darshan line where premies kissed his feet. Okay, that isn't exactly the same as him saying he's God, but what do you think it means? Why kiss his feet? Also, the first decade maharaji was in the West, it wasn't spiritual hippie nomenclature. None of it was at all hippie. It was all Hindi nomenclature and it all meant something. The names and phrases that were used referred specifically to divinity, divine experiences, and divine personalities. Maharaji knew exactly what all the terms meant, and even explained in detail what these things meant. He told many ancient scriptural stories and parables. He didn't talk about the Beatles or Haight Ashbury, he talked about God, and Krishna, and Satchitanand, and being like a lotus, and devotion to lord (L - O - R - D). Read the history, you'll understand. So don't write it off as small and meaningless, it isn't. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Apr 09, 1998 at 20:19:28 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Vacol Subject: Reply to V Message: V, I'll start with your last question. NO, I certainly do not believe Maharaji wants to help anyone. I think he has nothing but disdain for his followers. Give me a few hours with him and I'd prove it to you. 'Self-seeking'? Don't know about that. 'Self-serving'? Absolutely. V, I'm afraid you know an unacceptably small amount about your guru. So, is that what you're asking for, a history lesson in the comical tale of the one-time Lord of the Universe? Well, why not? But first, have you read those quotes I've posted from time to time? Have you read or ever even heard of the book, 'Who is Guru Maharaj Ji?' Ever wonder why Elan Vital doesn't sell it? If you like I can give you a taste of that book as well. Anyway, please read these quotes of Maharaji's and comment as you will: 1)Q - To whom should we give our devotion? A - Guru. Q - Shouldn't we give our devotion to God? A - What is God? Q - Well, Guru is a personification of God in this Earth, right? A - I told you yesterday: Who is Guru? The highest manifestation of God is Guru. So when Guru is here, God is here, to whom will you give your devotion? **** When God has come here, then what is the need to give devotion to God there? 2)'Why do we have this human body? To know this, we will have to take the shelter of Guru Maharja Ji. Guru Maharj Ji knows all. Guru Maharaji is Brahma (creator). Guru Maharaji is Vishnu (Operator). Guru Maharjai is Shiva (Destoryer of illusion and ego). And above all, Guru Mahraji is the Supremest Lord in person before us.' |
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Date: Thurs, Apr 09, 1998 at 19:51:06 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Vacol Subject: John's rght. sorry. Message: V, Sorry I didn't pick this up right. John's right, I ignored your own questions. I think M's a 40 year old man who was born into a religious sect and who, on account of several factors, all mundane, inherited the role of 'satguru'. I think he's about as spiritually 'realized' as my Uncle Charlie (not very) but nowhere near as knowledgeable. I think he's a very fraudulent asshole who owes a major accounting to all the people he tricked over the years. What I most dislike about him is is refusal to meet his critics. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Apr 09, 1998 at 21:02:36 (EDT)
From: Anon Email: None To: Vacol Subject: Jim, can the debate begin Message: 'who is M?' and what do you most dislike about him? Who is M is a pointless question to me. I most dislike the fact that he doesn't seem to mind weak people being intimidated by his words, he tolerates and appears to encourage sycophants for followers, and he tolerates premies conducting cover-up campaigns to distract or conceal controversial matters, rather than addressing them squarely. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Apr 09, 1998 at 22:11:39 (EDT)
From: JW Email: joger02@aol.com To: Vacol Subject: Jim, can the debate begin Message: Some of this may be repeating a few things. Maharaji is a guy from India who was born into the family of a guru and got made a guru himself at the age of 8 after being raised in an environment in which he was virtually worshipped by thousands and then literally worshipped after that. He was expected to take over the family business and be a traditional Indian Guru, claiming to be the perfect master of our time. But the 60s hit and so did the Beatles and Western spiritual-types and hippies dropping out of western culture went to India and found this 'boy-guru' and got off on the meditation, the hash, and his basic teaching of receiving knowledge and 'blissing-out.' Those westerners got him to go to the West. The westerners were REALLY naive and ready to believe almost anything. In the beginning the basic philosophy was 'get high you freaks!' and thousands received knowledge. The 'boy-guru' phenomenon was novel and he hit the west just as the whole 'India-trip' hit as well. Most of his followers were very young, teens and early 20s. They tended to be middle class, idealistic, educated. The money flowed in and Maharaji got a Rolls Royce and other toys and found out he liked it here. So, he stayed. He got married, became a legal U.S. resident, and broke his ties with his family. He was now in charge. With him he brought mahatmas, ashrams, krishna outfits, and a bunch of Hindi religious nonsense. But we just ate it up. He told us to surrender our lives to him and he would set us free. Thousands moved into his ashrams and gave up everything for years. Maharaji became fabulously wealthy from the 'gifts' people gave him and the huge fundraising power of the thousands of premies, especially the ashram premies who turned over all their income to his mission. We had festivals and kissed his feet on many occasions, and he danced in Krishna outfits while the premies went nuts. We got into his promise to bring peace to the entire, troubled world, and to save humanity from darkness. He claimed to be bringing the Millennium. He was worshipped and considered by a large number of premies as god, and it was a blatant devotional cult. In the late 70s Maharaji became especially paranoid that he would lose his devotees, because of the 'loosening' in 1976 and was very frustrated that the number of followers wasn't increasing, so he became very negative and began demanding total dedication and surrender in virtually every satsang he gave. And he started asking for grandiose and ridiculous things from the premies like a Boeing 707 jetliner, luxuriously refurbished by premies, at a cost of millions. I think he did these things to reinforce in his own mind that he really was the perfect master and to quell his own doubts. During this period he held darshan lines very frequently for the same reason and also to raise money. As Maharaji got older he likely relized he wasn't god and that his powers were really quite limited, he was NOT going to bring peace to the world, he COULDN'T save humanity, he had no idea what to do with these devotees, but he was REALLY used to the luxurious lifestyle, and he really liked being worshipped, and he didn't want that to end. But he also knew that what he was running was an obvious cult and the tolerance for those things had changed from the more-liveral 70s. I mean Maharaji was no kid anymore. He was approaching 30. But, instead of coming clean and being honest with the premies and the world, (and maybe himself) he just tried to tone it down to keep his good thing going, and hope no one would notice. No more ashrams, communities or nightly satsang. Just sell vidoes and make money off programs, and have fundraisers for toys he wants like planes. He tries to hide his past, and all the embarrassing cultish behavior, but underneath it all, nothing has really changed. He still has virtually no contact with his devotees, except at staged programs and through videos, otherwise the aura that he is something special would be lost. He still disdains his devotees, but he needs them, because without them he is nothing and is out of cash. He surrounds himself with people who never tell him a discouraging word, and if they do, he fires them. He likely sometimes still thinks he's god, and sometimes I think he doesn't. But he does think he's somebody super important and is just a little pissed that more people don't recognize him. But he continues to play on the desire of people to experience pure love, to know the truth and to sincerely be open to a spiritual guide. In short, he plays on the sincerity of people. He uses the carrot of proximity to him as a reward and banishment as a punishment. [Seating at programs, 'special service' around him, etc.] He continues to refuse any accountability whatsoever, to talk to his critics or disgruntled ex-members, and refuses to talk to the press. He won't respond to letters from people who leave his cult and ask difficult questions. He just continues on, creating the illusion that he is someone special, when in reality he is just a rather odd man, with a really weird background. To him, human beings are nothing. They are totally dispensible. If you lose one devotee, just con another one into getting involved. He tries to attract new followers by saying his trip is nothing more than a meditation program, but in reality it is about devotion to HIM, which is not disclosed to interested people. They are not told about darshan, they are not told about devotion, they are not told about his past and how he once claimed to be god. It is deceiftul, or in the least misleading. But his core group of followers is an aging group from the 70s, who still hold on to the beliefs that he is god and who want the devotional trip in full swing, like darshan and dancing. So, he gives it to them to keep them, and their donations, from splitting. I think that's why he just gave darshan in Australia. He won't even allow his followers to give satsang anymore and even tries to keep them from discussing him on the internet. He does not believe in democracy, or in two-way communication when it comes to him. What I dislike most about him is his total lack of integrity. How he never gave a shit about people who devoted their lives and sacrificed for him. And for his downright awesome arrogance. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Apr 09, 1998 at 22:56:02 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: JW Subject: Is this a REALLY dumb idea Message: Joe, Thanks for saying it so succinctly. I'm not sure if Vacol expected this to be a one-on-one discussion but hey, we're all friends and, besides, I think this chat does call for the integrity of a non-lawyer once in a while. I think the key to this whole enterprise is Maharaji's disregard for people. I'm also pretty confident that that would become absolutely apparent in any open exchange with him. Here's my dumb idea: how 'bout a pledge drive from ex's -- or interested premies for that matter (ha ha ha) -- who are willing to pay Maharaji to engage in an open, no-bullshit, no-olds-barred dialogue. Imagine if this page featured a $10,000 invitation to Maharaji? Symbolic? Great, won't cost us anything. By the way, how in the world do you post without typos? Jim Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Apr 09, 1998 at 23:53:21 (EDT)
From: JW Email: None To: Jim Subject: Is this a REALLY dumb idea Message: Sounds like an okay idea, but who would moderate? Somebody would have to keep it on subject and blow the whistle on the expected evasion. How about Kenneth Starr, he may be out of a job soon and will likely be moving to Malibu to be at Pepperdine anyway. If not him, then maybe Alexander Cockburn. But I think $10,000 is pocket change to Maharaji. He isn't about to blow his cover for a paltry sum like that. But how about just a public invitation that might get the attention of the press? You know, a bunch of ex-followers of this relic from the 70s who have some questions that he has never answered, simply ask for a public meeting. The press could follow up and ask if he'll do it. Might be interesting. I suggest 'open letters' in the New York Times, the Los Angeles Times, and maybe some local Malibu paper. When he goes to Britain, publish an open letter there. In Australia do the same. Hmmmm. Do you think we could embarrass him into doing it? Also, somebody, I think Bruce, said that M said recently that he has not been giving enough attention to the states. Maybe he is about to do more programs here. It could coincide with that. By the way, I was surprised how that last post came out. It just sort of 'flowed' while I was on a very boring conference call. (Really!) I can type really fast, but I think typos, or the lack thereof isa grace thing. Some people have it, some people don't. So, Vacol -- could it be that in you we have FINALLY found an open-minded premie? I sure am impressed by the questions you ask and the fact that you place value on questioning. You must be one lonely premie. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Apr 10, 1998 at 05:34:57 (EDT)
From: Anon Email: None To: JW Subject: I use 2 fingers Message: I was surprised how that last post came out. It just sort of 'flowed' while I was on a very boring conference call. (Really!) I can type really fast, but I think typos, or the lack thereof isa grace thing. Some people have it, some people don't. Just wanted to say that I thought your post was very well put indeed. You are lucky to be able to type so fast too. I am just graduating to using 2 fingers. It takes me ages to tap out a post! Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Apr 10, 1998 at 06:39:46 (EDT)
From: CD Email: None To: Jim Subject: Want to see a REALLY dumb idea Message: Jim, The New Yorker article was pretty interesting. This idea of yours sounds like another curious one. JWs expose of the tax issues was also unique. If Burkes paranoia resides he can be helpful creating outlandish copy. Mr. Ex just needs to firm up his outline and drop some more hints. Scott can assist with the technical mental stuff and be the Guru Papers reader. Brian is in charge of the cyber equipment and accounting. Be nice to VP and let him tag along. Katie major focus will be to help keep everybody calm. David will bring the sex videos and has had experience with snack cheese. Anon can provide sincerity and be ashram historian. John K can play the jerk without too much practice. Of course there are many you can call to glorious duty too numerous to mention here. Type when you are clear headed and you won't make the typos. Don't forget to practice that guitar. Its your true friend. How is that guy in Nigeria by the way? The tunnels in Amaroo should be all done by now. That might make a good sequel. Check on that farmer to see if he remembers anything else funny. Not only do you have your work cut out. But you have to provide the ultimate mental leadership. I see no other candidate to steer your chaotic and energetic crew to glory in this single lifetime. The brain is a fascinating device. I can tell that you have one too! The true mission of your team after all this preparation really boils down to producing a musical album instead of a victory. Tommy will be no match for the story you are about to sing. Tally Ho, CD Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Apr 10, 1998 at 10:18:41 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: CD Subject: CD's random sentence machine Message: Chris, You bring a whole new meaning to Turing's test. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Apr 10, 1998 at 16:08:20 (EDT)
From: CD Email: None To: Jim Subject: CD's random sentence machine Message: Alan Turings contribution to machine intelligence and death at the hands of government (the mind of society) out of control. I have been experimenting with a combination of Burke and Eliza content generation. CD swam the Ganges in 72 Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Apr 10, 1998 at 21:45:12 (EDT)
From: bill Email: paranoid To: CD Subject: CD's random sentence machine Message: SURVIVED swimming the ganges you mean. You were lucky you didn't pick up any intense diseases. Do you really think it is so unlikely that m reads and posts here? Guess so. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Apr 10, 1998 at 22:49:02 (EDT)
From: CD Email: None To: bill Subject: CD's random sentence machine Message: >You were lucky you didn't pick up any intense diseases. I did get something and had a beautiful nurse take care of me in England in the hospital for a while afterwords. I wasn't thinking much about that when I swam across the river. I just thought, 'hey I was born in Californai, I can do that'. Bill are you being sociable again? Hopefully so! Or is this the wrong bill? Where is that old music you promised - g? Bang that guitar, CD Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Apr 11, 1998 at 12:25:44 (EDT)
From: bill Email: None To: CD Subject: Earthquake Zone Message: Actually, I borrowed a tape to tape machine yesterday with the intent to make your and Mili's tapes I decided to just send two packages because the tapes can go now while the paperwork and otherstuff can wait till it's done. Yes it is an inbetween phase right now. between the warlike and the peaceful. If prem rawat can have his fury...well I guess I can too. Or is this one of those 'do as I say not as I do' things? He has said that before a few times. Now he says his anger is ego removal....thats a home brewed theology to make an excuse for lack of a solid state of 'socialability'as you mentioned. Anyway, take a stab at that post up in the grand opening thread if you will. It's interesting I think. I won't react in a negative manner. I know you have opinions on that subject. I should rewrite that post to make it less possibly offensive to you but it is too late. So what musician did you see last night? I think you missed a post I wrote you a couple archives ago. It was a friday night post before the change. Anyway, I'll do another some night. bruce thinks I'm full of shit for thinking we were asked for money for maharaji's malibu land and house rebuilding...YOU go to those Yurim Weiss meetings dont you? He was my favorite. Maybe he didn't support the mission and so he didnt attend the special every 6 month meetings. I emailed you early on about student being maharji...didnt you think so? Why in the world is his showing up here an unimaginable occurance? I mean the whole site IS about him. He is hooked on computers. AND the internet. This would be irresistable. Expecially since no one was giving much of a account on his behalf. I guess It's good no one is looking for him here. Makes him more emboldened to participant oops, I mean participate. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Apr 09, 1998 at 00:02:16 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Did I speak too fast Message: This just in on the AP Newswire: Ex-Members Sue Polygamist Church Three excommunicated members of a polygamist church have sued the sect, claiming its charismatic leader never delivered on a promised face-to-face meeting with Jesus Christ. The trio say they turned over all of their money and possessions -- amounting to $264,390 -- to Jim Harmston, the self-proclaimed prophet of The True and Living Church of Jesus Christ of Saints of the Last Days. The lawsuit filed Tuesday said Harmston took advantage of their ``deepest spiritual needs.'' Harmston, from his home in Manti, Utah, on Wednesday declined to comment on specifics but said the church probably would countersue. ``We're getting tired of this kind of thing, the defamation and libel that goes on,'' Harmston said. Ivan Douglas Jordan, Kaziah May Hancock, who is one of Jordan's wives, and Cindy Stewart said they were excommunicated from the church last year. Hancock said she and Jordan joined in 1993, the church's early days, and have since separated. The church, with about 300 members, has its roots in Mormonism and teaches that the world will soon end with only its members being saved. Its faithful believe Harmston is God's spokesman on earth -- a reincarnated Joseph Smith -- and that members can meet Jesus Christ if they consecrate all that they have to the church, Hancock said. Smith founded the Mormon church in 1830. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints -- now with some 10 million members worldwide -- disavowed plural marriage in 1890. Although polygamy is illegal, the crime is not actively prosecuted in Utah. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Apr 08, 1998 at 22:57:23 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Is this possible, Brian Message: Brian, I've got two small ideas that might make life easier.... that might make life a very little bit easier here. I wouldn't be surprised if neither's feasible and I'm posting this rather than emailing you in case someone else knows how this all might be done. Again, these are VERY small ideas. 1) Is there any way to control the read/unread links status? Say I had to reboot for some reason, lost my 'history' in my browser and wanted to mark all posts 'read.' Or say I wnted to mark my own posts as read so they wouldn't keep showing up unread. Or say I wanted to re-read a post later and wanted to thus mark it 'unread'. You know, like you can on newsgroups. You think there's any way to do this? 2) When will the Lord God natural selection 'create' shortcuts for 'bold', 'italics' and things like that? I told you these were small ideas Thanks Jim Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Apr 08, 1998 at 23:38:55 (EDT)
From: Brian Email: brian@ex-premie.org To: Jim Subject: Is this possible, Brian Message: It works for newsgroups because you have a file on your computer where your newsreader keeps track of what you've read. But browsers don't support what you're talking about as far as being able to tell them: if you ever see a URL containing such-and-such, mark it visited. As for the Lord God creating shortcuts... ask him: gates@microsoft.com Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Apr 08, 1998 at 21:02:29 (EDT)
From: Participant Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Participles per Participant Message: Jim & JW's Ex-cellent.Org While deciding whether to bother with anymore posts here I had a quick look at the archives to see if I was being fair to the posters and to see who they were. With a bit of grepping and froing I came up with the following table. I got quite a shock as Katie had not registered in my mind. When I looked at some of her posts I saw why, she is one of those who keep things happening without actually providing much information, misinformation and commentary about knowledge so I had ignored her posts. Poster - Posts - % Posts Katie 682 13.92% JW 608 12.41% Jim 391 7.98% Scott T. 297 6.06% VP 296 6.04% Brian 264 5.39% John K. 241 4.92% Mr Ex 230 4.69% Robyn 166 3.39% Sir David 158 3.23% Rick 148 3.02% John Cavad 143 2.92% David 140 2.86% And On Anand Ji 116 2.37% Mickey the Pharisee 109 2.22% bftb 105 2.14% Bobby 104 2.12% op 101 2.06% Anon 99 2.02% Nigel 98 2.00% Selena 84 1.71% Deena 78 1.59% Joy 72 1.47% Mike 66 1.35% gumby 53 1.08% Aesop 50 1.02% Total 4899 100.00% As I had suspected JW and Jim are the gurus here. Message to Jim Jim said: You say you'd be happy to discuss this wonderfully complex topic over dinner but really, what would you say that you haven't already said here? In three or four hours, face to face, we could communicate about 10,000 times more information than in a year using this forum. Even more importantly we would be able to assess each other's honesty, openness and wisdom, that is of course assuming I could get a word in edgewise as over the Internet you seem composed of equal parts bile, chutzpah and mouth! I'm planning a trip to Whistler in the Year 2K so if you live between Vancouver and there we may be able to get together. I'll see if this forum still exists before I arrive in Canada. In the meantime I award you the: The Benjamin Netanyahu Award for Reasoned Debate: Jim Heller For the lady of the org: The Fran Drescher Award for Best Cyber HouseMother: Katie Katie, I think there's a next step you have to take. You know JW knows much more than you and says it so much better than you but he's so humble that it's up to you to convince him to initiate the CLASS ACTION SUIT AGAINST MAHARAJI. All 20 of you can enter and share the huge payout you will get when Maharaji is proved to be the fraud you say he is in court. And then JW can sit right up there with his peers Alan Dershowitz, Johnny Cochran and Clarence Darrow. You know how hard it is for JW, with all those people above him who are ten years his junior and that embarassing black hole in his resume. You'll be suing Maharaji for deprivation of liberty, loss of income and infringement of your Civil Rights. JW's a lawyer so you wouldn't even have to pay any legal fees. Imagine the payout when you get a jury to agree with you. Instead of impressing this small group of true-believers you will have an international, public, well-publicised forum for you to really show the world what sort of person Maharaji is. BTW Is there anything you can do for Bill? I'm only shooting blanks at big boys and girls who seem mentally robust to look after themselves, but anyone would feel concern for him. Message to JW: Is there any point continuing when the chances of having a meaningful dialogue with you seem so poor. I'm not concerned by point scoring, insults or rudeness as this is how Australian males show affection anyway but after just a few posts I can see that things appear worse than that. It seems that you deliberately misinterpret much of what I say to belittle my position rather than honestly responding. I also believe you're revealing your own underlying attitudes of dishonesty, lack of openness, mental disturbance, etc with your wild accusations about me and others. I have read some of your posts revealing your acts as a 'storm-trooper' and your need for professional psychiatric help so I am not making up my assessment of you - it is based upon your own writings - and frankly I think you should beef up the dose of prozac at least for a while. In the end your fundamental argument is that you were more dedicated and surrendered and understood Knowledge better than any premie who hasn't left Maharaji and more than any who have as well. Therefore because you made more real mistakes, more often in your ten years and acted worse and have more guilt and ultimate responsibility therefore you now know more than anyone else, can understand everyone and everything and are even qualified to forgive others' sins 'No guilt lies at your feet, Mr Ex.' So for you: The Princess Diana Award for the Most Dedicated and Surrendered Premie - ever: The Messiah Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Apr 08, 1998 at 21:16:26 (EDT)
From: VP Email: None To: Participant Subject: A Night At The Oscars! Message: I demand a recount! I can't believe that I posted almost as much as that blabbermouth, SCOTT T. (Sorry, Scott-just foolin' with ya!:) Actually, this post probably makes us tied... Damn, where is my award?? I went out and rented this tux and everything. VP Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Apr 08, 1998 at 22:52:29 (EDT)
From: Katie Email: petkat@mail.trib.net To: VP Subject: A Night At The Oscars! Message: Sorry, VP, you can hand me my award for making 680 meaningless postings! And with no content too! By the way, it's assistant webmaster, NOT housemother (I already did the housemother trip.) Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Apr 09, 1998 at 09:55:54 (EDT)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: VP Subject: A Night At The Oscars! Message: Dear VP, I just love you! Robyn Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Apr 09, 1998 at 10:16:17 (EDT)
From: VP Email: None To: Robyn Subject: A Night At The Oscars! Message: Thanks, Robyn:) The same back atcha! I mean how can a serious response be posted to a JOKE like that? Jim, Katie and JW are very fine people and for someone to say such hurtful and stupid things to them is really sick. I'm with Jim on this, Participant owes JW an apology. (IF he/she has any feelings as a human being.) Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Apr 09, 1998 at 13:31:13 (EDT)
From: JW Email: None To: VP Subject: A Night At The Oscars! Message: Yes, I DEMAND an apology. That awful Participant accused me of being, I can HARDLY EVEN SAY IT!!!! A LAWYER!!!!!!!!!! And it is a vicious and horrible LIE! Shame on you Participant! Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Apr 10, 1998 at 04:15:15 (EDT)
From: bill Email: pheonix.com To: JW Subject: A Night At The Oscars! Message: I would like to remind everyone that this is the same person who said they were a novice on the computer and that prem rawat is very prone to makeing this kind of computer generated presentations. percents, ect. I won't mention the incorrect math skills evidenced by his 100% figure although I now appreciate my posting style of changeing headings. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Apr 08, 1998 at 21:35:18 (EDT)
From: Scott T. Email: None To: Participant Subject: Participles per Participant Message: Participant: The only thing is, you're using the wrong metric. You should take the clue from Derek deSola Price and use the number of times a poster is referenced in someone else's post. -Scott Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Apr 09, 1998 at 16:59:10 (EDT)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Scott T. Subject: Participles per Participant Message: Scott, I like that idea. Robyn Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Apr 08, 1998 at 22:37:08 (EDT)
From: John K. Email: None To: Participant Subject: Participles per Participant Message: Wow, but what about *.* aka bb? I'm sure he should be near the top in just sheer numbers of posts. And his writing style is so unique it should be recognized. I think he should get the Jack Kerouac award for best stream of conscousness writing, but hey, this is your show. Also, why not recognize the premies' efforts? For starters, Aesop could get the Jimmy Swaggert award for best preacher. On 2nd thought, there are a few others who might be considered for that honor. Well anyway, thanks for your efforts, I'm sure I speak for all x's when I say that we are honored by your attentions to our lowly task of shining the bright light of truth into the dark corners of cult like behavior. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Apr 09, 1998 at 00:26:47 (EDT)
From: VP Email: None To: John K. Subject: Participles per Participant Message: I just had a hilarious thought. Someone posts on the forum about how we all spend so much time posting. In order to do this, the person spends time downloading and counting up all of our posts... VP P.S. Oh, no another post for me -g. P.P.S. How is it possible one becomes a guru simply by the amt. of posts one has? That is almost as absurd as becoming guru by the amt. of videos one makes or programs that one holds. Oh, maybe Participant's criteria for 'guru' is quantity, not quality -no offense Jim. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Apr 08, 1998 at 23:23:18 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Participant Subject: Participles per Participant Message: On behalf of all those who respond very heavily to visual stimulation, I'd like to say thank you, Participant, thank you so much for the colors. And the compliments, of course (sorry, I almost forgot)! You know, Party (may I call you that?), dinner with me wouldn't be so bad. Why not so long ago I had lunch with Jack, my old ashram brother and former Community Coordinator. Jack was once given to calling me worse names than you've yet imagined right here on this page. Today, he popped into the page, said 'hi' and asked me to.... join him for lunch again. I like Jack. (Jack, if you're reading this, the party's not this weekend, it's next). Now what would Jack say it was like chatting with me in person about Maharaji? I think he'd admit that I was friendly, humorous, insistent and -- ask your girlfriend, Jack -- able to skate amazing circles around him. It was, frankly, a mugging, what can I say? See, as Jack may have readily admitted at lunch, there is no rational defence for being a premie. None. Once you connect all the dots, the picture that emerges is no picture. It doesn't work on paper, not in the least. That's why the only good premie defence isn't even the clever one JW posited or that Scott has considered. The only good premie defence is a big, fat Meher Baba smile, a shrug of the shoulders and a finger to the lips......'Shh' Then, the premie can turn around and point to Maharaji, still sitting up there, up there somewhere, on a stage, behind the Holi water gun, in a video. He's up there and all's well in the world. Let Maharaji do the talking. Party, my boy, if you were honest enough, I'd get you there. I've done it before. Jack's one but there are others. Lance Tane comes to mind. You might have seen my mention of him. He's a very intelligent and thoughtful guy, sincere in his communication, resolute and honest. Lance came on like the Titanic and lasted about as long. In the end he buckled as any premie must, 'I can't defend Maharaji rationally.' And that was that. What good is that? I think it's important for everyone interested, premies, ex's and people like VP, to understand exactly what the mental price of premieship is. That's all. Look forward to meeting you, Jim P.S. How did you do that anyway? Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Apr 09, 1998 at 19:46:22 (EDT)
From: Jack Email: None To: Jim Subject: Participles per Participant Message: Hey Jim get your facts right, eh? '...friendly, humorous...' - as always. '...insistent...' - obviously. '...skate circles around him... - huh? '...a mugging...', - you're joking of course? OK my side of the story. It was a surprise to run into you and good to see you after what, 10 years? (kinda like old times). You seemed driven, almost evangelical (maybe a little better descriptor than 'insistent'). There was many near aggressive moments filled with four letter explicatives when I thought the restaurant would clear (hey, you were attacking me over lunch). It was rather rude of you to try to demonstrate the first technique at the table (but I'll let that one pass). I had to eventually tell you after an hour or more when we were saying goodbye that I didn't want to discuss it anymore (yes a Meher Baba smile would have been easier in the long run). So Jim, you don't remember the bet we made which precipitated my message re you springing for lunch. Should have bet you about the mag article too. Jack Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Apr 09, 1998 at 20:06:32 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Jack Subject: Participles per Participant Message: Jack, I went over this with Laurie. I said, 'Laurie, I claimed that I skated circles around him and that it was a 'mugging'. What do you think?' She thought for a moment, then agreed. Jack, remember how your new girlfriend kept asking you stuff as I'd bring up the past, the aspects of Maharaji's ridiculous past that you'd never told her about. She kept saying, 'Really, Jack? Is that true?' You were embarrased and it showed. First, you're a blusher. Come on, admit it. You're a blusher and you bluished. Secondly, you were stymied and stopped answering things directly. After all, what could you say? Maharaji didn't claim to be God in human form? He didn't claim he was the saviour of mankind? 'Aggressive moments'? Jack, I know what it's like to be on the losing end of an argument but please, 'aggressive'? Jack, ask your girlfriend. You came off as someone who's got something they care about very much and who realyl doesn't -- make that CAN'T -- really analyze it. Your girlfriend (sorry to keep calling her that. I can't remember her name) said that she doesn't relly know or even care about this thing of yours. All she knows is that you like it, she likes you and, if it makes you happy, well that's enough for her. Remember? As for demonstrating the techniques -- what's rude about that? Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Apr 09, 1998 at 20:57:31 (EDT)
From: Jack Email: None To: Jim Subject: Participles per Participant Message: Jim Come on Jim, Laurie's not an unbiased third party!!! OK, I admit it. I am a blusher. Never was good at poker. I'll grant you that I never introduced my girlfriend (gee, what is her name anyway) to the controversy around whether or not M is God, which of course she was startled by, and which is admittedly a hard one to explain. But I was thinking about this whole topic in my car today. I remember when the idea was introduced to me it made perfect sense. What was said, I think by Charanand, is that before there was Guru in your life you didn't know the true identity of God. Guru came along and showed you God. He therefore became greater than God TO YOU because without him God would have remained a mystery (read, never known his true greatness anyway). So if you step back and compare as two entities, Guru to an almighty power, hey, there's no comparison - Guru bleeds and God doesn't. Guru eats, breathes, breeds, and dies while God is eternal. No comparison. BUT, in the heart of the one who now k Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Apr 09, 1998 at 22:54:07 (EDT)
From: John K. Email: None To: Jack Subject: To Jack Message: Hey Jack, I don't believe that you can't just admit that yes the guru did ask us to recognize him as God, or as a superior power in person that we needed to obey. It's the truth Jack, you know that it's true. We all know it's true, at least those of us who were there in the 70's, and I'm assuming you were there. Again, what's so terrible about facing that particular fact and admitting it? Maybe because you are still participating and M has changed his tune? I'm curious, is it now something that no one wants to admit or recognize? Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Apr 08, 1998 at 23:54:23 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Participant Subject: Sorry, I had to add Message: Party, I forogt to say that was really cool what you did there with them colors. Did I already say that? Well, it IS cool. Also, just curious, who's Benjamin Netanyahu? No, seriously, what do you think of him? Do you think he's a specious, devious fanatic or what? Second, who's Fran Drescher? Really, I don't know. Suppose I could look her up. But, in defence of Katie, well that wasn't very nice, was it? You can't tell me you don't find her presence warm and humanizing. She's our Katie. Only I can pick on her! As for JW, first, he's not a lawyer. So there! He's a specialized cog in a well-oiled legal machine. I'm sure he's worth every bit as much as any lawyer on staff at his fou fou fancy, Mister fancy-pants, fancy... oh just plain fancy law firm. But I thought you should know that. A class action against Maharaji would be pointless. Don't you think we've considered it? I won't bother you with the details. Suffice it to say that if you ever snap out of worshipping the man who was crowned Lord of the Universe at eight years old and you want a little payback, don't bother talking to a lawyer unless the consulation's free. Furthermore, I've followed and joined in to many if not all of your spats with JW. I think you do him a grave disservice. Really you do, and it's so black and white I don't know how in the world you expect anyone to take you seriously. JW has never once said that he was more into this than you or any other premie. Hmm. No that's not accurate. Let me think about this for a minute. Okay, JW has, like most of us had two different things to say along those lines. One, for premies who never made the sacrifices ashramies necessarily made -- time, money, sex, life, careers, time, moeny (like money but misspelled), friction, privacy, effort, sex, sex, sex, -- he (and I) say 'forget it, you weren't there.' |
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Date: Thurs, Apr 09, 1998 at 01:43:51 (EDT)
From: Rick Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Sorry, I had to add Message: I second JW's posts as informative, objective, level headed, and without any assumption of superiority or postition. Participant is peeing in the wind. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Apr 09, 1998 at 09:54:06 (EDT)
From: Katie Email: petkat@mail.trib.net To: Rick Subject: Sorry, I had to add Message: Yes, I agree with Rick and Jim regarding the content of JW's posts, and should have pointed that out in my earlier post. Plus, just so you know, JW is not a lawyer. As far as I know, Jim is the only lawyer on the forum. P.S. to Rick: Thanks for your e-mail Rick! Razz away...I'm about to go to work so I won't be able to sass you back for a while, either. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Apr 09, 1998 at 10:09:49 (EDT)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Jim Subject: Colors Message: Jim, and whom ever else mentioned the colors, I wasn't impressed with the colors at all, now the frames, now that's a different story! God, Jim, you live in Canada isn't there more impressive colors in nature there than on that useless, waste of to much time post, or do you live in Montreal. That is the only place I've been to in Canada, to see M BTW, other than Niagra Falls which I didn't expect to be impressed by but was intensely! Just buy a box of crayons and lay them out in front of your computer. Have a great weekend! Robyn Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Apr 09, 1998 at 00:11:37 (EDT)
From: Party-Pooper Email: None To: Participant Subject: Your Post Message: Wow! The layout, the colors--fabulous! The content--fair. Your attitude could be better. Keep trying, though. The future is wide open. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Apr 09, 1998 at 04:21:49 (EDT)
From: Paula Email: None To: Participant Subject: Participles per Participant Message: first of all, how can you add colors on your message? it was cool, I never thought it could be done, even knowing it was just an html trick. But, at the same time, you could write something with content inside. also, it is a great pleasure to see how you get annoyed by messages in this forum. I laughed a lot, it was one of the most stupid things I saw in my life... and I was thinking.. you might be a pain in the ass personally. A person that can make a message like this cannot be taken seriously. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Apr 09, 1998 at 06:49:22 (EDT)
From: Anon Email: None To: Participant Subject: Participles per Participant Message: Regarding Participants Post Hmm... You seem a bit harsh in your judgements of all these folks. I wonder how far back you went into the archives? Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Apr 09, 1998 at 10:17:09 (EDT)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Anon Subject: NOW THAT'S WHAT I CALL COLOR! Message: Anon, First of all I want to tell you how much I enjoyed your journey's entry. It was a bit long and I almost put it off for another time once or twice but it was good and I was mostly touched by the last part so I was glad I stuck with it. What are you doing with all those colors anyway, getting in line for next years awards! Have a lovely weekend! Robyn Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Apr 09, 1998 at 10:38:08 (EDT)
From: John K. Email: None To: Robyn Subject: Party Animal Message: Robyn: Aren't you jumping the gun on this weekend talk? It's still just Thursday in the land of the fruited plain. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Apr 09, 1998 at 10:52:48 (EDT)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: John K. Subject: Party Animal Message: Dear John, I have to make the most out of this long weekend! I leave job 1 for job 2 at noon today and have 2 holidays, Fri. and Mon. from job 1 which I will spend at job 2 thus giving me 2 whole days off from any job, Sat and Sun. It will be over to soon and I'm trying to make the MOST of it. Robyn Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Apr 09, 1998 at 11:50:24 (EDT)
From: John K. Email: None To: Robyn Subject: Deep in Debt Message: My God, Robyn, what a schedule! My sympathies. No wonder your posts sound sort of ....uhmmmm forget it...nevermind...heh heh..just kidding! Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Apr 09, 1998 at 17:04:37 (EDT)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: John K. Subject: Deep in Debt Message: Dear John, That schedule doesn't even take into account getting my daughter back and forth to track practice and meets! I don't know if you are joking about my posts but I know sometimes I shouldn't post because I really feel like a mental wreck but then I have always found it hard to keep my thoughts/feelings to myself. Also even though my hair is brown I sometimes feel like an honorary blonde, if you know what I mean. Now I have to tell the blonde joke I just heard. Hadn't heard any in a long time. What does the blonde say when she opens a box of Cheerios? Eh? Oh look donut seeds! God I just love it! I didn't think I'd be back here until Tues. When will I learn! Robyn Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Apr 09, 1998 at 15:07:49 (EDT)
From: Anon Email: None To: Robyn Subject: NOW THAT'S WHAT I CALL COLOR! Message: Yes, I got about carried away with the Journeys thing. It was originally posted last spring when I was going through a lot of soul searching. When Brian took over as webmaster, he also thought it a bit long-winded and cut out the bit about David Lanes experiments in revealing Divine Light to his college pupils, replacing it with a link to The Neural Surfer homepage..That made no sense to me so I asked him to put it back the way it was, which he kindly has done. Yea, it's a bit long but I have had a lot of feedback, believe it or not, from people who have been able to strongly relate to what I wrote and who have read the whole thing with interest. Sometimes it takes a long time to say what you want. By contrast, David Julian has written a very short but effective journeys entry I just noticed. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Apr 09, 1998 at 09:54:34 (EDT)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Participant Subject: Participles per Participant Message: Participant, In reading this post I have one big question. How do you find the time for all your efforts in the creation of this little diddy. I just can't understand why it was so important to you and to make all your little 'awards' and your indepth chart. What were the percentages of? I feel like I spend a large portion of time here but these people are like a support group to me. What could your motivation be in insuling Katie who everyone loves, insulting JW who I find intelligent and funny and then trying to shmooze(excuse my yiddish!) Jim with a palzy visit to Canada. I think you need to lower your dose of prozac! Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Apr 09, 1998 at 13:55:22 (EDT)
From: JW Email: None To: Participant Subject: Participles per Participant Message: Pushed a few of your buttons there ol'participant, have we? A little sensitive are we? Sorry about that. And I'm sure no one would ever accuse you of being rude or anything. I would just point out that you do what others have done for centuries who are losing an argument -- you attack the speaker (in this case the poster) instead of the speaker's arguments. Nothing new about that, but it's still pretty specious, and, unfortunately for you, obvious to everyone. Thanks for the gratuitious psychiatric advice, and I wouldn't dream that you are 'making it up' being the trained psychiatrist that you are. It has been duly noted, and the source of the advice duly considered. Your caring thoughtfulness will not be soon forgotten. Thanks also for the award. Will the statue be arriving in the mail? I have so many people to thank, I just don't know where to begin.... Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Apr 09, 1998 at 20:13:35 (EDT)
From: Jack Email: None To: JW Subject: Participles per Participant Message: JW Hey lighten up JW, Participant's post was in good fun. I do want to point out (in good fun, that is) that premies get attacked regularly by you ex's. By your line of reasoning that means you guys are losing too. Begs the question, if eveybody's losing then who's winning? Jack Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Apr 09, 1998 at 21:47:28 (EDT)
From: VP Email: None To: Jack Subject: Maharaji's the winner Message: Without a doubt. Sitting up in his dream house havin' a good laugh over all of this. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Apr 10, 1998 at 00:02:51 (EDT)
From: JW Email: None To: Jack Subject: Participles per Participant Message: Well, Jack, I WAS trying to be light in that post, I was trying to be funny. Perhaps I didn't succeed too well. I said what I did because Participant didn't bother to respond to anything I said, he just attacked me and said I was mentally ill. I think people do that when they don't think they can really address the issue. That isn't really fair, even if it was 'in good fun.' I may have said something party said was dumb, but I never said HE was, nor did I say he was nuts. So, I guess I disagree that it's something that's done on both sides. But saying I was a lawyer is just pure slander. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Apr 08, 1998 at 14:55:37 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Everyone Subject: I need P Message: In a now inactive post, P wrote: Jim: I wonder if you know the story of how Shri Hans Ji Maharaj found his wife Mata Ji? He was looking for a virtuous and good woman because he knew his time was at hand to plant the seeds of the next generation. He went to a convent and knocked on the door. A young sister of the cloth answered the door and inquired about his business. He said that he needed to find a young and virtous woman, pure of heart and mind who could become his wife and father his children. The young sister immediately fell to her knees and said, 'I am that woman, ravish me oh Lord, I am yours!' Shri Hans looked at her disprovingly and said, 'No, my dear daughter, you cannot be. Your mind has proven to be filled with impurities. My wife will bear me four sons, one of whom will take my message to the world, but she will remain a virgin until her death.' She was incredulous and without batting an eyelash, proclaimed, 'You've got to be joking old man, you're going to make her go through the torture of child birth and not even let her have any fun!? There is an old saying: If you dance, you must pay the fiddler. You're suggesting that this wife of yours must pay the fiddler and not be allowed to dance.! Won't you reconsider?' And then she very coyly did bat her eyelashes, smiling in a most suggestive manner. Shri Hans was taken aback and then roared with laughter. He said, 'My daughter, you have shown me something even more important than a pure mind and a guileless heart. You have a quick wit and a sense of humor. I shall allow you to be my wife, and yes you shall be allowed the pleasure of the dance before you pay the fiddler.' The morning after their wedding night, it is said that Mata Ji practically floated down the stairs in bliss, and she gave 100 rupies to her servant and said 'Go into town and give that to the first fiddler that you find!' P, I actually have a version of that story in my Millenium commemorative issue of AIID. Is that where you're getting yours? I just wonder in all that sari-ripping love where he had time to enlighten her? P, on a more minor note, Rick and I have a bet as to whether or not your posts are tongue-in-cheek. I say yes and he says no, you're just another rabid premie. I know how terrible it is to break a joke up midway but, you should know, there's a lot riding on this. Someone's going to have to give up an old DLM publication. Could you please? Thanks, jIm Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Apr 08, 1998 at 15:03:55 (EDT)
From: Rick Email: None To: Jim Subject: I need P Message: I think you realize by now, Jim, that you're losing the bet. All of P's posts showed evidence of the insidious programming and brainwashing common in premies. In addition, P demonstrated historical knowledge that known ex's here don't have, with the exclusion of a couple of people who are known to be honest, and therefore would step forward and make themselves known. The only evidence that P's posts were tongue in cheek, was the utter outrageousness of his/her comments, which considering typical premie behavior, isn't outrageous at all. After all, the premie letter you wrote home (not unlike my own) could be taken as tongue in cheek, if it was posted on the forum. Come on, Jim, give up those premie tabloids. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Apr 08, 1998 at 15:14:30 (EDT)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Rick Subject: I need P Message: Jim and Rick, I have to side with Rick but I don't have nor do I want any old magazines! Robyn Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Apr 08, 1998 at 15:19:31 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Robyn Subject: I need P Message: Forget it both of you! P's obviously kidding and Rick, you're just showing what a typical hothead Ex you are. Years from now, when we're all safely back at Maharaji's feet (you and I might be in the brig, however) people will look back at YOUR posts here and wonder if YOU'RE kidding. Jim (Come on, P? P? Where are you, P?) Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Apr 08, 1998 at 15:36:15 (EDT)
From: John K. Email: None To: Jim Subject: You lose Rick, sorry! Message: P was me. Sorry Rick, but hey to make it up to you, I got a beautiful piece of investment property in Florida. It's got a slight drainage problem at the moment but hey there's a great view of the water. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Apr 08, 1998 at 15:49:13 (EDT)
From: Rick Email: rtaraday@hotmail.com To: John K. Subject: You lose Rick, sorry! Message: John K., You have no heart. You led me on and I bit. I made a fool of myself but then to redeem myself I bet the farm. Now I'm not only a fool but I'm minus one priceless collectors-item premiezine. You could have stayed silent and allowed an old sucker to have one bit of glory. But no, to save your own self-respect, you sacrificed me twice. I hope you feel good now. Wasn't Katie supposed to stop this sort of thing? Jim, Tell me where to send the zine. You want the Elan Vital or the UK zine? Rick Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Apr 08, 1998 at 15:51:39 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Rick Subject: You lose Rick, sorry! Message: Rick, I am donating all spoils of war to the ex-premie shelter or 'half-way house' we're building just NEXT to Amaroo, Australia. Please hold on to your publication in trust until we're ready to stock the reading room. Thanks, Jim Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Apr 08, 1998 at 16:00:27 (EDT)
From: Rick Email: rtaraday@hotmail.com To: Jim Subject: You lose Rick, sorry! Message: Jim, No way. A bet's a bet. Besides you'll value it more than I. I just keep this stuff packed away, and never, ever look at them. And anyway, I intend on further bets, where I clean you out... lock, stock and barrel. If, on the other hand, there was some collusion between you and John K., you best 'fess up right now. By the way, when maharaji finally is forthcoming with his apology, and offers to make amends, will you cut him the same slack and say, 'Nah, never mind, it's okay. We kinda had fun anyway.' Send an address for the zine or I'll be truly stripped of any self-esteem. I insist. Rick Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Apr 08, 1998 at 16:07:40 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Rick Subject: You lose Rick, sorry! Message: Rick, Okay, please send me your email address and I'll tell you where to send whichever you think I'd enjoy most. I should tell you, the Elan Vital I've already got is the one where he's throwing his kid up in the air on the back cover. Thanks, Jim Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Apr 08, 1998 at 16:06:54 (EDT)
From: John Email: None To: Rick Subject: But Rick, you said... Message: Rick: I really didn't think you cared. Here is a quote from you, I realize that you said this in the past, hours and hours ago and so you should not now in the present time be held accountable for it, but you did say: 'But Katie, it's a bit like betting the kitchen garbage. If you lose, you pack it up and send it off. If you win, Mili is totally irked that a good guruzine is going to waste.' Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Apr 08, 1998 at 16:14:36 (EDT)
From: Rick Email: None To: John Subject: But Rick, you said... Message: John, That quote was intended for a Hindi audience. When they say they don't care, it means they really DO care. Once again, ex's think they understand something, just because they understand it. Rick Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Apr 08, 1998 at 20:08:57 (EDT)
From: Joy Email: Bluebirdd@aol.com To: Jim Subject: I need P Message: I must have missed this whole thread around Mata Ji, but I remember seeing a photo of the 'Holy Family' which included Shri Hans Ji's first wife, who wasn't as pretty or well to do as Mata Ji. Mata Ji was his second, chosen for her looks, I think, to bear his future sons and the satguru, but appaently the first wife didn't freak out about this and still hung around. Anyone know anything about this? I guess when you're Satguru you can do pretty much whatever you want, eh? Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Apr 08, 1998 at 22:45:22 (EDT)
From: John K. Email: None To: Joy Subject: I need P Message: Joy: Now that's an interesting bit of news that I had forgotten. Yes, I do remember hearing something about a 1st wife of the guru's guru. Of course those are the kinds of details that were quickly glossed over in the AIID bio's of the guru's guru. I wonder who would know more? Perhaps I will summon P in my next seance to learn more. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Apr 08, 1998 at 13:52:58 (EDT)
From: Still Crazy Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Message Submit broken in Lynx Message: When I click on the form submit link using Lynx, I get a message similar to: BAD HTML!! No form action defined. -Still Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Apr 08, 1998 at 14:02:45 (EDT)
From: Katie Email: petkat@mail.trib.net To: Still Crazy Subject: Message Submit broken in Lynx Message: Did you see Brian's post below about illegal characters? He just did that this morning. I think he is at work now... Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Apr 08, 1998 at 14:19:09 (EDT)
From: Still Crazy Email: None To: Katie Subject: Message Submit broken in Lynx Message: I don't believe there were any illegal characters. I submitted the message just fine through Netscape; just could not do so through Lynx. -Still Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Apr 08, 1998 at 15:50:17 (EDT)
From: Katie Email: petkat@mail.trib.net To: Still Crazy Subject: Message Submit broken in Lynx Message: Yes, I realized after I posted the last message that that probably wasn't your problem. Will just have to wait for the divine Shri Brian to get off work, I guess! Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Apr 08, 1998 at 16:10:18 (EDT)
From: David of Cheddar Email: djulian@cix.compulink.co.uk To: Still Crazy Subject: Message Submit broken in Lynx Message: I get a bad HTML message as well and then it says 'using trace to diagnose' and the message gets sent OK. I'm using Lynx too. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Apr 08, 1998 at 16:17:53 (EDT)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: David of Cheddar Subject: Sir Laugh A Lot Message: Dear Mr. David of Cheddar, Here's another of those unexplainable experiences I was talking about but on the comic side. I was in college and at that time I kept odd hours as most college students do I guess. I fell asleep with books and papers all around me. I woke up to the sounds of crinkling paper and was totally out of it. I stumbled into the bathroom to P, huh no pee, anyway I sat and held my head in my hands and could have almost fallen back to sleep and a thought hit me like a brick to the head. The message clearly said: 'You will graduate college but you will become a comedian.' Now what do you make of that everyone. I certainly don't get the laughs you guys do. Maybe I need to become an apprentice. How about a correspondence course. Robyn BTW this is a true story. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Apr 08, 1998 at 16:22:40 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: David of Cheddar Subject: What's Lynx Message: Huh? Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Apr 08, 1998 at 20:14:20 (EDT)
From: David de Brie Email: djulian@cix.compulink.co.uk To: Jim Subject: What's Lynx Message: Now you've not been paying attention! All this chit chat about whether M said he was God or not and you missed something really important like Brian and I sorting out the Lynx effect. Yeah, well, Lynx is a text only web browser common to Unix and mainfraims but now also being adapted for use with PCs. No pictures or graphics but it's very fast, particularly when accessing it from a terminal program (like Windows Terminal) when it's installed onto a Unix based machine. It's so fast that I prefer it to Microsoft IE when I don't need graphics. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Apr 08, 1998 at 21:22:48 (EDT)
From: Scott T. Email: None To: David de Brie Subject: What's Lynx Message: Davidissimo: I thought it was 'LINUX.' Did I get that confused with P...nuts? -Scott Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Apr 08, 1998 at 22:30:53 (EDT)
From: gumby Email: megumby@hotmail.com To: Scott T. Subject: What's Lynx Message: Hi Scott, Lynx = Text only Web browser. LINUX = Public domain implementation of UNIX. Written by Linus Torvald (spelling?). i.e. LINus' UniX. Hope that helps. GAGBWY -gumby Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Apr 08, 1998 at 23:16:47 (EDT)
From: David de Brie Email: CIX To: Scott T. Subject: Telnet to try Lynx Message: You can telnet to a free site which uses Lynx to browse the web. Telnet to: sailor.lib.md.us and login as 'guest' Back To Index -:- Top of Index |