Ex-Premie.Org |
Forum III Archive # 10 | |
From: May 28, 1998 |
To: Jun 9, 1998 |
Page: 3 Of: 5 |
Amigo -:- Student or Wannabe? -:- Wed, Jun 03, 1998 at 13:33:07 (EST) __Jim -:- Idiot or BIG idiot? -:- Wed, Jun 03, 1998 at 13:53:45 (EST) ____Selena -:- Idiot or BIG idiot? -:- Sat, Jun 06, 1998 at 18:27:11 (EST) __Joy -:- Student or Wannabe? -:- Wed, Jun 03, 1998 at 14:01:18 (EST) __Gerry -:- Student or Wannabe? -:- Wed, Jun 03, 1998 at 14:17:15 (EST) ____Robyn -:- Student or Wannabe? -:- Wed, Jun 03, 1998 at 15:49:18 (EST) ______Gerry -:- Love and the spirit of peace -:- Wed, Jun 03, 1998 at 16:02:32 (EST) ______Jerry Mathers -:- Old Joke -:- Wed, Jun 03, 1998 at 16:11:04 (EST) ________Robyn -:- Old Joke -:- Wed, Jun 03, 1998 at 16:21:59 (EST) ______Rick -:- Bravo -:- Wed, Jun 03, 1998 at 16:16:09 (EST) ________Robyn -:- Bravo -:- Wed, Jun 03, 1998 at 16:24:42 (EST) __________carol -:- Bravo Robyn -:- Thurs, Jun 04, 1998 at 02:39:31 (EST) ____________Robyn -:- Bravo Robyn -:- Thurs, Jun 04, 1998 at 08:26:27 (EST) __Judex -:- Student or Wannabe? -:- Wed, Jun 03, 1998 at 14:29:36 (EST) __Gerry -:- Another sheep bleats -:- Wed, Jun 03, 1998 at 14:38:06 (EST) __Gerry -:- Student or Wannabe? -:- Wed, Jun 03, 1998 at 15:25:56 (EST) ____Rick -:- L Amigo (El Stupido) -:- Wed, Jun 03, 1998 at 16:23:28 (EST) __Amigo -:- Student or Wannabe? -:- Wed, Jun 03, 1998 at 16:20:45 (EST) ____Jim -:- Student or Wannabe? -:- Wed, Jun 03, 1998 at 16:30:49 (EST) ____Paul -:- Student or Wannabe? -:- Wed, Jun 03, 1998 at 16:52:55 (EST) ____Joy -:- Student or Wannabe? -:- Wed, Jun 03, 1998 at 16:57:21 (EST) ______carol -:- Amigo and Joy :video..thanks -:- Thurs, Jun 04, 1998 at 03:02:37 (EST) ____Gerry -:- Student or Wannabe? -:- Wed, Jun 03, 1998 at 17:17:22 (EST) ______carol -:- I said what you said -:- Thurs, Jun 04, 1998 at 03:07:56 (EST) ______Robyn -:- Student or Wannabe? -:- Thurs, Jun 04, 1998 at 12:44:30 (EST) ____JW -:- Student or Wannabe? -:- Wed, Jun 03, 1998 at 17:59:08 (EST) ____Grated Cheddar -:- Another clown -:- Wed, Jun 03, 1998 at 21:01:24 (EST) ______carol -:- Where I learned it... -:- Thurs, Jun 04, 1998 at 03:39:19 (EST) ________Mild Cheddar -:- Where I learned it... -:- Thurs, Jun 04, 1998 at 07:01:14 (EST) __________Joy -:- Where I learned it... -:- Thurs, Jun 04, 1998 at 11:54:37 (EST) ____VP -:- Drop your expectations?? -:- Wed, Jun 03, 1998 at 23:35:29 (EST) ______Robyn -:- Drop your expectations?? -:- Thurs, Jun 04, 1998 at 12:57:58 (EST) __Sir David -:- Student or Wannabe? -:- Wed, Jun 03, 1998 at 20:23:11 (EST) ____God Almighty Incarnate -:- Practice makes Perfect Master -:- Wed, Jun 03, 1998 at 20:41:25 (EST) __Richard -:- Free egg-sucking lessons? -:- Thurs, Jun 04, 1998 at 09:02:13 (EST) ____Robyn -:- Free egg-sucking lessons? -:- Thurs, Jun 04, 1998 at 13:09:25 (EST) ______Ched -:- Free head-fucking lessons -:- Thurs, Jun 04, 1998 at 21:02:28 (EST) __Amigo -:- Student or Wannabe? -:- Thurs, Jun 04, 1998 at 17:30:26 (EST) ____Rick -:- Student or Wannabe? -:- Thurs, Jun 04, 1998 at 18:32:58 (EST) ____Jim -:- Student or Wannabe? -:- Thurs, Jun 04, 1998 at 18:45:17 (EST) ____Grated Cheddar -:- You missed the point Amigo -:- Thurs, Jun 04, 1998 at 21:25:10 (EST) ______Grated Cheddar -:- You missed the point Part 2 -:- Thurs, Jun 04, 1998 at 23:58:06 (EST) ____Jim -:- reply (2) -:- Thurs, Jun 04, 1998 at 22:27:05 (EST) ____Judex -:- Student or Wannabe? -:- Fri, Jun 05, 1998 at 06:14:25 (EST) ____Richard -:- Three Strikes and.... -:- Fri, Jun 05, 1998 at 07:15:47 (EST) ____Gerry -:- the best i can do now -:- Fri, Jun 05, 1998 at 12:22:13 (EST) ______Robyn -:- the best i can do now -:- Fri, Jun 05, 1998 at 13:12:42 (EST) bill burke -:- to the doc person -:- Wed, Jun 03, 1998 at 00:15:47 (EST) __Jim -:- Oh my God! -:- Wed, Jun 03, 1998 at 02:03:50 (EST) Jim -:- A very funny guy -:- Tues, Jun 02, 1998 at 18:58:51 (EST) __VP, in-between packing -:- Nuabians-another cult -:- Tues, Jun 02, 1998 at 19:10:41 (EST) ____Robyn -:- Nuabians-another cult -:- Wed, Jun 03, 1998 at 08:46:02 (EST) __JW -:- A very funny guy -:- Wed, Jun 03, 1998 at 13:06:17 (EST) Jim -:- Come on, Premies! -:- Tues, Jun 02, 1998 at 18:43:00 (EST) __Richard -:- OK..OK...Hey Nurse!!...Nurse!! -:- Wed, Jun 03, 1998 at 06:52:17 (EST) __Bruce -:- Soapbox leap -:- Wed, Jun 03, 1998 at 08:50:26 (EST) ____Premmey -:- Soapbox leap -:- Wed, Jun 03, 1998 at 12:41:57 (EST) d@vid -:- Risen from the ashes -:- Tues, Jun 02, 1998 at 17:32:01 (EST) __Jim -:- Risen from the ashes -:- Tues, Jun 02, 1998 at 17:48:26 (EST) ____d@vid -:- Risen from the ashes -:- Tues, Jun 02, 1998 at 18:43:48 (EST) ______Jim -:- Risen from the ashes -:- Tues, Jun 02, 1998 at 18:50:19 (EST) ________d@vid -:- Risen from the ashes -:- Tues, Jun 02, 1998 at 18:59:09 (EST) __________Jim -:- Risen from the ashes -:- Tues, Jun 02, 1998 at 20:02:25 (EST) ______Brian -:- Risen from the ashes -:- Wed, Jun 03, 1998 at 00:07:31 (EST) ________d@vid -:- Risen from the ashes -:- Wed, Jun 03, 1998 at 05:34:13 (EST) __________Rodney King -:- Risen from the ashes -:- Wed, Jun 03, 1998 at 18:00:59 (EST) ____________Louise Woodw@rd -:- Risen from the ashes -:- Wed, Jun 03, 1998 at 18:26:15 (EST) ____________Robyn -:- Risen from the ashes -:- Thurs, Jun 04, 1998 at 12:05:11 (EST) ________Robyn -:- Risen from the ashes -:- Wed, Jun 03, 1998 at 08:59:23 (EST) Gerry -:- Gotta see God -:- Tues, Jun 02, 1998 at 16:20:20 (EST) __Jim -:- Gotta see God -:- Tues, Jun 02, 1998 at 16:24:47 (EST) ____Joy -:- Gonna Miss God -:- Wed, Jun 03, 1998 at 00:32:08 (EST) __VP -:- Gotta see God -:- Tues, Jun 02, 1998 at 19:41:42 (EST) ____carol -:- Gotta see God-Seattle -:- Tues, Jun 02, 1998 at 22:14:18 (EST) ____Charles -:- Gotta see God -:- Wed, Jun 03, 1998 at 00:01:53 (EST) __Paul -:- Gotta see God -:- Wed, Jun 03, 1998 at 07:07:43 (EST) Judex -:- To Scott - Thought - off topic -:- Tues, Jun 02, 1998 at 15:28:08 (EST) __Robyn -:- To Scott - Thought - off topic -:- Tues, Jun 02, 1998 at 15:37:04 (EST) Ms. K -:- Happy Birthday Robyn! -:- Tues, Jun 02, 1998 at 00:34:17 (EST) __carol -:- Happy Birthday Robyn! -:- Tues, Jun 02, 1998 at 02:33:02 (EST) ____charles -:- Happy Birthday Robyn! -:- Tues, Jun 02, 1998 at 02:40:45 (EST) ______Jim -:- Happy Bir..... -:- Tues, Jun 02, 1998 at 02:52:01 (EST) ________Keith -:- Happy Birthday -:- Tues, Jun 02, 1998 at 04:16:10 (EST) __________Judex -:- Happy Birthday -:- Tues, Jun 02, 1998 at 04:38:47 (EST) __________Gerry -:- Gemini Birthday Greeting -:- Tues, Jun 02, 1998 at 09:55:21 (EST) ________eb -:- Happy Bir..... -:- Thurs, Jun 04, 1998 at 14:53:26 (EST) __Robyn -:- Happy Birthday Robyn! -:- Tues, Jun 02, 1998 at 11:13:25 (EST) __Richard -:- Yeah! Me Too...Belated... -:- Tues, Jun 02, 1998 at 11:34:28 (EST) ____Robyn -:- Yeah! Me Too...Belated... -:- Tues, Jun 02, 1998 at 13:07:35 (EST) ______JW -:- Yeah! Me Too...Belated... -:- Tues, Jun 02, 1998 at 18:09:49 (EST) __VP -:- Happy Birthday Robyn! -:- Tues, Jun 02, 1998 at 19:14:10 (EST) __eb -:- Happy Birthday Robyn! -:- Tues, Jun 02, 1998 at 23:54:56 (EST) ____Robyn -:- Happy Birthday Robyn! -:- Wed, Jun 03, 1998 at 08:40:49 (EST) Keith -:- Mysteries. -:- Mon, Jun 01, 1998 at 23:05:34 (EST) __Robyn -:- Mysteries. -:- Tues, Jun 02, 1998 at 13:16:42 (EST) __Robyn -:- Mysteries. -:- Wed, Jun 03, 1998 at 13:41:09 (EST) ____Keith -:- Mysteries. -:- Wed, Jun 03, 1998 at 23:29:59 (EST) ______Keith -:- About mysteries -:- Wed, Jun 03, 1998 at 23:57:18 (EST) ____Katie -:- Mysteries. -:- Thurs, Jun 04, 1998 at 10:59:04 (EST) ______Robyn -:- Mysteries. -:- Thurs, Jun 04, 1998 at 11:58:19 (EST) ________Robyn -:- Mysteries. -:- Thurs, Jun 04, 1998 at 13:44:28 (EST) __________Mirabai -:- Mysteries. -:- Thurs, Jun 04, 1998 at 23:10:58 (EST) ____________Mirabai -:- Mysteries. -:- Thurs, Jun 04, 1998 at 23:25:51 (EST) ______________Robyn -:- Mysteries. -:- Fri, Jun 05, 1998 at 13:16:27 (EST) ____________Robyn -:- Mysteries. -:- Fri, Jun 05, 1998 at 12:31:44 (EST) ______________Judex -:- Mysteries. -:- Fri, Jun 05, 1998 at 20:28:09 (EST) Jim -:- Premie Experiment -:- Mon, Jun 01, 1998 at 18:36:44 (EST) __Bruce -:- questions from the soapbox -:- Tues, Jun 02, 1998 at 07:51:44 (EST) ____Richard -:- Just a sec.... -:- Tues, Jun 02, 1998 at 12:10:01 (EST) ______Jim -:- Bruce, your credibility -:- Tues, Jun 02, 1998 at 13:34:48 (EST) ________Richard -:- Where are the bodies? -:- Wed, Jun 03, 1998 at 12:27:00 (EST) ______Bruce -:- Maharaji answers -:- Wed, Jun 03, 1998 at 10:46:33 (EST) ________JW -:- Maharaji answers -:- Wed, Jun 03, 1998 at 12:59:01 (EST) __________JW -:- One Correction -:- Wed, Jun 03, 1998 at 19:32:03 (EST) __________Richard -:- Maharaji answers -:- Thurs, Jun 04, 1998 at 07:33:13 (EST) __________Mirabai -:- Maharaji answers -:- Thurs, Jun 04, 1998 at 23:47:51 (EST) ________Richard -:- Maharaji answers..or not -:- Thurs, Jun 04, 1998 at 07:23:06 (EST) __________JW -:- Maharaji answers..or not -:- Thurs, Jun 04, 1998 at 13:31:19 (EST) ____________Katie -:- Shame and responsibility -:- Thurs, Jun 04, 1998 at 13:49:14 (EST) ____________Joy -:- Maharaji answers..or not -:- Fri, Jun 05, 1998 at 11:37:57 (EST) ______________Richard -:- Milky... -:- Fri, Jun 05, 1998 at 12:00:54 (EST) __________Robyn -:- Maharaji answers..or not -:- Thurs, Jun 04, 1998 at 15:47:42 (EST) ____________Richard -:- Off Topic - Englishness -:- Fri, Jun 05, 1998 at 06:26:46 (EST) ______________Katie -:- Funniest post of the day -:- Fri, Jun 05, 1998 at 11:18:53 (EST) ________________Richard -:- Funny post? -:- Fri, Jun 05, 1998 at 12:18:34 (EST) ________________Robyn -:- Funniest post of the day -:- Fri, Jun 05, 1998 at 13:33:12 (EST) ______________Robyn -:- Off Topic - Englishness -:- Fri, Jun 05, 1998 at 13:31:28 (EST) ________________Judex -:- Posting -:- Fri, Jun 05, 1998 at 20:45:39 (EST) ____Jim -:- Where can I order, Bruce? -:- Tues, Jun 02, 1998 at 13:13:28 (EST) ______Gerry -:- Bruce's Blues -:- Tues, Jun 02, 1998 at 14:23:56 (EST) ______Bruce -:- Where can I order, Bruce? -:- Wed, Jun 03, 1998 at 10:09:53 (EST) ________Jim -:- Where can I order, Bruce? -:- Wed, Jun 03, 1998 at 13:38:31 (EST) ____Judex -:- questions from the soapbox -:- Tues, Jun 02, 1998 at 15:42:38 (EST) ______Jim -:- questions from the soapbox -:- Tues, Jun 02, 1998 at 16:13:41 (EST) ________Gerry -:- questions from the soapbox -:- Tues, Jun 02, 1998 at 16:29:52 (EST) ________Robyn -:- questions from the soapbox -:- Wed, Jun 03, 1998 at 16:02:54 (EST) ________Judex -:- questions from the soapbox -:- Thurs, Jun 04, 1998 at 05:56:58 (EST) __________Richard -:- questions from the floor... -:- Thurs, Jun 04, 1998 at 07:52:08 (EST) __________Jim -:- questions from the soapbox -:- Thurs, Jun 04, 1998 at 10:26:58 (EST) __________Katie -:- To Jude (from the bitch!) -:- Thurs, Jun 04, 1998 at 11:13:12 (EST) ____________Judex -:- To Jude (from the bitch!) -:- Thurs, Jun 04, 1998 at 16:53:17 (EST) ______________Robyn -:- To Jude (from the bitch!) -:- Thurs, Jun 04, 1998 at 17:35:07 (EST) ____Paul -:- questions from the soapbox -:- Tues, Jun 02, 1998 at 17:25:23 (EST) ______Bruce -:- questions from the soapbox -:- Wed, Jun 03, 1998 at 08:42:49 (EST) ________Paul -:- questions from the soapbox -:- Wed, Jun 03, 1998 at 11:07:46 (EST) ________Jim -:- Bruce, scrapyard guard-dog -:- Wed, Jun 03, 1998 at 13:24:49 (EST) ____Jim -:- what answers, Bruce? -:- Wed, Jun 03, 1998 at 14:08:35 (EST) |
Date: Wed, Jun 03, 1998 at 13:33:07 (EST)
From: Amigo Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Student or Wannabe? Message: Hello All, I've been monitoring your site now for several months, and I feel it's time to make some points. Let me start with the first point. The criticism you aim at Maharaji is really the anger you feel for not understanding and feeling the experience which he teaches. Look at it this way. You go to any teacher to learn a subject which have not yet mastered. You may be able to do it yourself, but you choose a teacher since, he or she can show you the correct and fastest way to achieve the learning and mastery you seek. If you go to this teacher, you assume that there is something you can learn if you follow the teacher's instructions and practice the lessons that the teacher has assigned the proper way and for the recommended duration. If you do not follow the lessons precisely, you cannot expect to learn the correct methodology and master the subject. Remember the key to learning the art taught is first to have a desire to learn, second to find the teacher who has mastered the subject, and lastly but most importantly, to follow the teacher's instructions and practice the lessons properly. Note that learning any subject is a process which takes time and effort. You can't expect to master a subject quickly, but rather each individual proceeds at one's own rate based on the time, effort and the individual's capacity to learn. How long does it take to master the subject taught? To become a master of the subject requires a long time and much consistent effort. In fact a true Master is the example of the greatest student since the master never stops practicing and is an example of what any student can become if one wishes to invest the time and energy to master the subject. Being a musician most of my life, I've met so many so-called musicians who have the most expensive equipment, and who talk a good game, but who can't play a note, or literally are inept at playing their instrument. These 'wannabe' musicians are too busy discussing all the intricacies and theories of music, judging and criticizing others, all in the avoidance of the action which will make them true musicians: practice. While there are those musicians who are amazing artists mastering their instruments beyond belief. The difference between the two type of musicians is solely practice, perserverance, and willingness to always continue to practice, even when it seems a drudgery or appears to be stagnant. Yet with perserverance the breakthru takes place and the evolution to mastery continues. As soon as one stops practicing, one regresses in learning. Which kind of musician or student are you? Only your choice each moment of your life determines who you are, not who your teacher is. And remember that your teacher is your greatest inspiration, since he is the living example of a common human being like you who has become a master, revealing to all the potential which we all have, and what we can become if we so choose. And you know who is a great teacher by what his students achieve, but mostly by what you achieve if you follow his direction. Maharaji has taught me the joy of living when I follow my heart and practice meditation. Pure and simple. Yours....L'amigo Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 03, 1998 at 13:53:45 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Amigo Subject: Idiot or BIG idiot? Message: You, friend, are an idiot. You've been monitoring the site for some time? Then you're a major idiot. What's your name, by the way? My name's Jim Heller and I live at 547 Herald Steeet, Victoria, British Columbia. I'm not afraid to say that. Who are you? Is there some reason you can't stand up for yourself? Listen, so much of your post is funny, I'll just take one little point and have some fun with it: To become a master of the subject requires a long time and much consistent effort. Tell me, how and when did Maharaji become a master? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Jun 06, 1998 at 18:27:11 (EST)
From: Selena Email: None To: Jim Subject: Idiot or BIG idiot? Message: Jim, Maharaji is different. He didn't have to practice. He was chosen by God. It's so obvious, how could you doubt it? Just look at the was the family all knew immediately, didn't contest it, didn't try to put forth one of the older brothers to the helm. oh, well never mind that part. It's just that M was meant to be master. Why do you have to question something your heart knows to be true? Do you ask why the sun shines? He was also meant to be incredibly weathly, and not to have to practice what he preaches. Why should he have to? He's perfect, he can do whatever he wants. It's all for a reason, it's a test, a lila. Meant to strengthen your faith. Selenabai Having fun being back on the forum. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 03, 1998 at 14:01:18 (EST)
From: Joy Email: None To: Amigo Subject: Student or Wannabe? Message: Amigo, if you've been monitoring the site for some time now, you must have seen the track records of a lot of the people posting here -- many up to 10 years in the ashram, and even an ex-initiator of 25 years' standing. Are you saying NONE of us practiced properly or had any kind of an experience of Knowledge? Seriously? How can you know that? Because if we DID have the experience BM is touting, and STILL are disillusioned, might that just nullify all your arguments? Why don't you think about this point for a little bit before responding to anybody who answers you. Then let us know if you can admit that perhaps some of us just might have had an experience of Knowledge similar to your own -- really, it's a very subjective thing to know what anyone else experiences, and I think it's very presumptious of you to assume none of us ever understood or practiced Knowledge properly. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 03, 1998 at 14:17:15 (EST)
From: Gerry Email: None To: Amigo Subject: Student or Wannabe? Message: So good buddy how 'bout enlightening us with your great breakthrough, you arrogant fuck? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 03, 1998 at 15:49:18 (EST)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs To: Gerry Subject: Student or Wannabe? Message: Dear Gerry, Well aren't you just filled with the love and spirit of peace! You crack me up, thanks! Thanks to Rick to for helping me to get over my adversion to curse words on the forum. FUCK, SHIT, oh no this is not what I intended. I thought I could just tolerate reading them not that I COULD use them. Men! Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 03, 1998 at 16:02:32 (EST)
From: Gerry Email: None To: Robyn Subject: Love and the spirit of peace Message: ... curse words on the forum. Thanks, Robyn. I was just practicing and as we found out from our new 'amigo', practice makes perfect! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 03, 1998 at 16:11:04 (EST)
From: Jerry Mathers Email: None To: Robyn Subject: Old Joke Message: Robyn you reminded me of this: Mrs Cleaver (groaning in pain): Ward, weren't you a little rough on the beaver last night? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 03, 1998 at 16:21:59 (EST)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs To: Jerry Mathers Subject: Old Joke Message: Dear Mr. Mathers, I am just about to leave job 1 and GO HOME! Just scanning once more and caught this, to funny you nut!-g Robyn recieved tornadoes for my 43rd birthday, 1998 is BM trying to send me a message? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 03, 1998 at 16:16:09 (EST)
From: Rick Email: None To: Robyn Subject: Bravo Message: Well done. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 03, 1998 at 16:24:42 (EST)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs To: Rick Subject: Bravo Message: Dear Rick, Fuck you shithead, hey this is fun! You know I'm just kidding, you'll know I've really got it when I don't have to explain the cursing right after it is written! I'm trying. Robyn Sorry ladies. :( Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 04, 1998 at 02:39:31 (EST)
From: carol Email: None To: Robyn Subject: Bravo Robyn Message: Robyn, Don't apologize to us ladies. I said 'shit' out loud when I burned some food, and got charged a quarter by my 9 year old. I also 'dang' several times today when I stubbed my toe two different times. I really have to watch it, because of having a son with Tourette's (I don't want to expose him to swear words in case he gets the symptom of Copralalia, which literally means 'shit-talk') I had fun on a ladies night out, with a live band and drinks, saying back and forth FUCK YOU in all the different ways it can be said. carol Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 04, 1998 at 08:26:27 (EST)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs To: carol Subject: Bravo Robyn Message: Dear Carol, Thanks dear, I am just a smiling...If I feel generous I'll have to tell Jade about that quarter for burt food, she'd be RICH! Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 03, 1998 at 14:29:36 (EST)
From: Judex Email: None To: Amigo Subject: Student or Wannabe? Message: This sounds like an essay. B- Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 03, 1998 at 14:38:06 (EST)
From: Gerry Email: None To: Amigo Subject: Another sheep bleats Message: Now that I'm done throwing up, I read your post again, amigo and must award you the prize for the most pompous, arrogant, and superior attitude post I've ever read here. Who the fuck are you to gives out this 'great teaching'? And thanks for the use of the analogy/metaphor. Without it I'm sure our crazy minds could not possibly comprehend your great truth. Man, you really make me sick. You've really got the parroting of the Holy Fat Ass down pat, you smug piece of shit brainless programmed robot. And you know who is a great teacher by what his students achieve... You sure are a perfect example of that, 'pal'. You don't need to 'practise' any more. You're there. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 03, 1998 at 15:25:56 (EST)
From: Gerry Email: None To: Amigo Subject: Student or Wannabe? Message: Dear ''L 'Amigo'' (Is this some curious mixture of Spanish and French?) Are you sure you are not John Hammond-Symthe in yet another incarnation? If you are JHS, I take it all back. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 03, 1998 at 16:23:28 (EST)
From: Rick Email: None To: Gerry,Jim,Robyn,Joy,Judex Subject: L Amigo (El Stupido) Message: Gerry,Jim,Robyn,Joy, and Judex, God, I can't get a cuss word in, edgewise. You people are great. L Amigo gives the word criminal a new meaning. Rick Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 03, 1998 at 16:20:45 (EST)
From: Amigo Email: None To: Amigo Subject: Student or Wannabe? Message: Hello all, Well now that I received the full volley of blasts from you all, I would like to respond. Jim, I’m not an idiot for monitoring your site for months, I just believe it’s good to listen for a while before responding to some of your points of view. I don’t feel I have to tell you my personal statistics to interact, I gave you my representative name, that should be enough. Jim, Maharaji became a teacher when others saw in him something which can be learned, then he assumed the responsibility to impart this knowledge to others who felt they needed that experience in their lives. That’s when we assumed the position of student and opened our minds and hearts to his teachings and lessons. As Maharaji has stated 'the Master is the manifestation of the yearning of the heart'. Joy, I appreciate your response. I’m not stating that I know what experience anyone has had or whether mine was more real or deeper, what I meant was that all learning is a process, and that this process proceeds at different rates for different people. You could only know where you are not where anyone else is, however you must continue to participate actively in the process in order to judge it in your life. Just because some of the 'ex-premies' practiced knowledge for 10 years or were initiators having Knowledge for 25 years does not necessarily mean that they are qualified to state that Maharji’s and /or his teachings are bogus. Maybe it just didn’t yield what they expected over that period of time, for others like me it has, especially when I drop my expectations. I’m sure that all people who receive knowledge have some experience, it’s more a matter of depth and continuity, and that is different for all of us, at different times. All I meant was don’t give-up because the process appears slow. Judex, thanks for the -B, but getting the grade was not my intent. I’m sorry if what I stated sounded like an essay, it’s just the way I think and write. Everyone has a different style, maybe I’m more nerdy that others. And maybe I need to change my style based on the negative response I got, although I know that it was misinterpreted. I never meant to imply that I’m better than anyone else, or that my experience is more real. I just wanted to focus on reasons why some people see knowledge and Maharaji with different eyes, based on their experience. The same thing happened to Christ. Some found love, peace and salvation in him, others saw him as a blasphemous trouble-maker and killed him. To-date the argument goes on: Son-of- God or charlatan? I think neither, just a human being who assumed the role of Teacher for those who hungered for that Truth which he taught and imparted. Jerry, your response really gives insight into your personality. I’m glad you threw-up, you probably purged yourself of some of that poison that you seemed to be filled with. Your reduction to insults and profanity shows that I’ve hit home, after all if the shoe fits, wear it. It’s funny how you can dish-out crap, but can’t take words that provoke you to examine yourself. By the way there are more than two languages in this world, but then what can I expect from someone who doesn’t appreciate analogy/metaphors. Anyway the only language that counts is the heart’s, which we all apparently need to practice more. I hope that you can quite down somewhat, so we can discuss this essential subject with civility. Yours…..L’amigo Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 03, 1998 at 16:30:49 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Amigo Subject: Student or Wannabe? Message: Jim, I’m not an idiot for monitoring your site for months, I just believe it’s good to listen for a while before responding to some of your points of view. I don’t feel I have to tell you my personal statistics to interact, I gave you my representative name, that should be enough. No, Amigo, you're an idiot for monitoring the site and STILL uttering such drivel. There's a diference. As for your name, well, tell me, why the secrecy? Are you ashamed of the fact that you're posting here despite Maharaji's express command that premies NOT? Jim, Maharaji became a teacher when others saw in him something which can be learned, then he assumed the responsibility to impart this knowledge to others who felt they needed that experience in their lives. That’s when we assumed the position of student and opened our minds and hearts to his teachings and lessons. As Maharaji has stated 'the Master is the manifestation of the yearning of the heart'. Yeah, yeah, blah, blah, blah. Listen, friend, that's not an answer. I'm asking you a very straightforward question: when did Maharaji become a teacher? Was it when he was 8 and declared taht he would take over his dad's mission? Hm? Really, you are so full of shit, I'm finding it hard to take you seriously. Like we know John Hammond-Smyth is just a joke. I'm beginning to think you are too. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 03, 1998 at 16:52:55 (EST)
From: Paul Email: None To: Amigo Subject: Student or Wannabe? Message: Amigo: ' Maharaji became a teacher when others saw in him something which can be learned.' Was this when he stood up at age 8 and declared that the Perfect Master was still among the devoted (fortunately, older brother was still backstage and didn't get put on time to assume the crown)? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 03, 1998 at 16:57:21 (EST)
From: Joy Email: Bluebirdd@aol.com To: Amigo Subject: Student or Wannabe? Message: Amigo, No, it's not that the process was/is slow with some of us, or hasn't yet yielded what we expected over the period of time we practiced. For me, it yielded more than expected. I was one of the 'gopi' variety of premies, I worshipped Maharaji, had incredible experiences of darshan, service, and satsang. Did pranam and sang Arti more times than I'd like to admit. No, I had the experience of it all to the fullest extent possible, but after ten years had come to the conclusion that it wasn't worth continuing. But here's a crucial point: My experience was not really exclusively of Knowledge, it was more of the whole Maharaji phenomenon, the satsang, service, meditation, darshan way of life tied up in one package. If I just isolated the Knowledge itself, as a meditation technique, you're probably right, it wasn't all that great (we had a good thread about this awhile ago, it's probably not too far down the line here). But what I understood Maharaji to be offering was MORE than meditation, it was an experience of surrender to him as Master which was where the experience lay, and I certainly practiced that to the best of my ability for all those years. And having recently viewed a video of him speaking last year, I can see that his message has not essentially changed. He speaks a lot about the Heart, and appreciating your life, but he doesn't leave it there, he ties it all into HIMSELF, as the way to do that, the conduit. He doesn't just say practice Knowledge and see ya around. No, it has to do with gratitude and longing, same as it ever did, just couched in 90s terminology. THIS is what you'll find the majority of the folks here on the site are disgruntled about. If M. was just teaching a nice, helpful meditation with which people could really and truly just enjoy their life, I don't think we'd have much problem with that. But this kind of talk is just a front for the Satguru/surrender the reins of your life trip that he's always had, and therein lies the 'experience' and feeling of 'heart' all the premies are so keen to have. The way to experience 'heart' is thru devotion, not Knowlege. I wish you all would call a spade a spade and stop beating around the bush about it, but I guess premies can't really be blamed since this is the way M. presents it and premies are just following suit and parroting his words, for the most part. So, is it the experience of Knowledge, Amigo, which makes you in touch with your 'heart', or devotion? You spout the premie line about heart being good and mind being bad, but really, a little critical thinking can be quite a pleasurable experience sometimes, there's got to be some kind of balance there, you know? I, personally, am getting great pleasure out of exercising my critical faculties which were so totally shut down for those ten years of my practice of 'Knowledge' (what an inappropriate term!). P.S. And I think your style's just fine, it's the content of what you're saying that needs a little work. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 04, 1998 at 03:02:37 (EST)
From: carol Email: None To: Joy Subject: Amigo and Joy :video..thanks Message: Joy, Your are right! (Amigo, she is right! And, I've met Gerry recently and he's a real nice guy, despite your impression.How do you think you can evaluate his or anyone's personality by reading their posts here!) I got the video you sent,Joy, and will return it when you requested. It's really long! I've watched an hour or so tonight. The message is essentially the same and pretty simple. The only part that is unlike what most people already know or what many other speakers and workshop leaders and teachers is the part about 'the master', speaking of himself and the insistance that you have to be a student of the master to have 'fulfillment.' Occasionally he makes a reference to you only needing what is in you and basically knowing your priorities and making choices. Too bad he didn't leave it at that.I'll comment more on the video later. carol Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 03, 1998 at 17:17:22 (EST)
From: Gerry Email: None To: Amigo Subject: Student or Wannabe? Message: Dear Numbnuts or what ever your name is: Thank you for insightful analysis of my personality. Could you possibly rewrite my paragraph? It didn't make any sense and I feel somewhat slighted that your laser sharp focus on everyone else's comments got slightly diffused by the time you got to me. I really need some more of your wisdom and teaching. You see, I'm trying to lose few pounds and the purging really helps. But this one just didn't do it for me. Please try again as I hate to stick my fingers down my throat. I have to agree with you on one point, though. Your style really does suck as bad as the content. Now wasn't that stated civilly? Not a single cuss word or metaphor. From my heart....Gerry (with a 'G', not a 'J', stupes) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 04, 1998 at 03:07:56 (EST)
From: carol Email: None To: Gerry Subject: I said what you said Message: referring to my post above. I wonder if you have LOTU yet. Perhaps you could come visit and exchange it for the Long Beach one. Joy wants it back by end of June. I laughed out loud at 'the beaver' joke, thanks again. carol Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 04, 1998 at 12:44:30 (EST)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs To: Gerry Subject: Student or Wannabe? Message: Dear Gerry, I just have to tell you that I was taking a drink of water when I read your purging sentence and that water sprayed out all over my bosses keyboard and screen! Now look at the work you've made for me. If it wasn't your birthday I'd ask Patty to feed you pot stickers! Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 03, 1998 at 17:59:08 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: Amigo Subject: Student or Wannabe? Message: Amigo, I refrained from responding to your first post, because I am kinda tired of hearing the same mantra from premies. You know, that we never really had the experience and lacked (I HATE this word) understanding and therefore we are all just pissed off about it. But your dishonest waffling in this thread is too much to bear without comment. First you say: The criticism you aim at Maharaji is really the anger you feel for not understanding and feeling the experience he teaches. Then, when Joy calls you on this as being condescending and feigning some kind of infused knowledge of the 'experience' that others you don't even know have or have had, you say the following, which is completely contradictory: I’m not stating that I know what experience anyone has had or whether mine was more real or deeper, what I meant was that all learning is a process, and that this process proceeds at different rates for different people. If the second statement is true, you couldn't have possibly said the first one. If you don't know what experience ex-premies have had, how do you know they are experiencing anger, and that further, such anger is due to a lack of 'understanding and feeling' of the 'experience?' Typical premie-speak if you ask me, entirely judgmental and spiritually egotistical and then feigning humility when called on it. As for the rest of it, I think Joy has expressed my feelings that many of us really did give BM and his K a good try. But, as Joy says, it never really was about knowledge. It was about devotion and surrender of your life to Maharaji who portrayed himself as the living god. You say you don't believe he is the living god, but many of us, unlike you, believed him when he said it, and devoted our lives, with disastrous results in some cases, as a result. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 03, 1998 at 21:01:24 (EST)
From: Grated Cheddar Email: David.Studio57@btinternet.com To: Amigo Subject: Another clown Message: Hey amigo - if this is your 'heart' speaking I think it's in the wrong place. You are talking down to people here. You are assuming a superior stance. By the way, meditation is never drudgery. If it is then it isn't meditation but some forced, military type discipline. Where did you learn that from? Sometimes I don't meditate for days and then I decide to get back into it again and you know what? It only takes me two or three days to get back into it again. Do you want to know my technique for getting into it. I can give it to you for free and I won't expect any gratitude. People don't always want or need to meditate. So what's the big deal? Do you think that your drudgery type meditation is any better than doing NO meditation. I'd say doing no meditation is much better than your drudgery meditation. But I can see that your iron discipline and regular forced marches (sorry, meditations) are making you feel quite the ticket. Perhaps even superior to us ill disciplined people who have no hearts and who are too lazy to be students. Were you ever in the Army? They'd soon cut you down to size and rub your face in the mud. Perhaps then you'd see that you are just an ordinary clown like the rest of us. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 04, 1998 at 03:39:19 (EST)
From: carol Email: None To: Grated Cheddar Subject: Where I learned it... Message: You are so versatile, Mr. Cheese, You said 'By the way, meditation is never drudgery. If it is then it isn't meditation but some forced, military type discipline. Where did you learn that from?' I was relieved one time some time years ago when M said something to the effect of, you don't HAVE TO practice knowledge, do it because you want to. I had experienced a sense of drudgery and discipline about it before and feel that I learned it from him and in satsang with all his minions, including myself. I had difficulty with pains (early M.E.) and the feeling that I was breaking the rules if I didn't practice it just the way taught (which changed, depending who did the reviews) and for an hr in the morn and an hr in the eve. Once given the permission (indicates the patriarchal relationship I felt)to meditate when I wanted to, I did just that! Over the years, I also did it HOW I wanted. I appreciate your support to meditate in whatever way suits the individual. During the last year,I am freeing myself of the subtle feelings of being disobedient as I become free of the delusion and attachment that he was God and required my obedience. M spoke in the Long Beach video about the nature of a human being in a 'default' state to be a state of love and peace. (A lot of what he says has a ring of truth that believers can attach to. And the way he looks so happy and loving at times, is very attracting to people, smiles are contagious). The kind of 'meditation' I 'do' is a non-practice: a non-doing in which I experience calmness, love and peace inside, and I can feel that almost anytime or place when I am still or when I choose to be aware of it. Happy trails,carol Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 04, 1998 at 07:01:14 (EST)
From: Mild Cheddar Email: David.Studio57@btinternet.com To: carol Subject: Where I learned it... Message: Maharaji's use of the word 'choice' is an insidious form of manipulation by fear. I know this after having lived in his ashram. He'll say you have a choice but you know he's really saying that unless you choose him, you're doomed. Now no proper teacher of any subject would ever attempt to manipulate students in such an underhand manner. It takes a while before it sinks in that Maharaji doesn't know what he's talking about and is actually a rather dangerous loose cannon. He's no wiser than the next man but has somehow convinced people that he is the source of all wisdom and knowledge. The fact that he keeps changing his parameters for practising K are an indication of his ignorance. This boozing, smoking, dirty joking and tyrannical little Hitler is able to portray a mask of superior wisdom. He's had plenty of practise. But you or I are just as qualified to be a teacher. It's an amazing con trick. This guy Maharaji who used to be the self proclaimed God but who now is just a teacher. I mean that fact alone should be enough to convince most people that he's just a waste of time. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 04, 1998 at 11:54:37 (EST)
From: Joy Email: Bluebirdd@aol.com To: Mild Cheddar Subject: Where I learned it... Message: That was a GREAT post, David! Hit the nail right on the head, there. I particularly liked It takes a while before it sinks in that Maharaji doesn't know what he's talking about and is actually a rather dangerous loose cannon. He's no wiser than the next man but has somehow convinced people that he is the source of all wisdom and knowledge. The fact that he keeps changing his parameters for practising K are an indication of his ignorance. This boozing, smoking, dirty joking and tyrannical little Hitler is able to portray a mask of superior wisdom. Well said! It's how he continues to get away with it, especially to the tune of so many millions of dollars, is what irks me. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 03, 1998 at 23:35:29 (EST)
From: VP Email: None To: All Subject: Drop your expectations?? Message: Everyone, Amigo said, 'Maybe it just didn’t yield what they expected over that period of time, for others like me it has, especially when I drop my expectations.' What is it with the 'drop your expectations' line that I hear from M and premies all of the time? I think it's healthy to let go of unreasonable expectations. However when someone is going to be my Master and take so much of my time, resources, etc. I am probably going to have some expectations that the experience be a FANTASTIC one--or else what is the damn point? That no expectations thing gives M the power to sell me the emperor's new clothes. I'm paying for a cuban cigar, but it is conterfeited in the Dominican Republic!! In my opinion, it can be unwise to drop one's expectations too low. If you demand too little of yourself and of others, then the quality of your life is lowered significantly. Just my thoughts. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 04, 1998 at 12:57:58 (EST)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs To: VP Subject: Drop your expectations?? Message: Dear Joy, In my opinion, it can be unwise to drop one's expectations too low. If you demand too little of yourself and of others, then the quality of your life is lowered significantly. Just my thoughts. How true! If your expectations are to low than that is the level of response you will draw to yourself! Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 03, 1998 at 20:23:11 (EST)
From: Sir David Email: David.Studio57@btinternet.com To: Amigo Subject: Student or Wannabe? Message: I don't think I could ever get close to where Maharaji is, no matter how hard I try. Such a master as this is beyond my mere human potential. I tried drinking heavily but it didn't agree with me. I tried shouting at people but in the end I just feel sorry for them and tell them I'm sorry. I even tried getting some people to give me money but in the end I felt guilty and gave it back to them. I try to look down on people but it's difficult when you can see we're all the same. I have tried to get into material posessions but they don't really do much for me. True, I do need a new car but try as I might, I don't think I will get too excited about it. I just have an ordinary porcelain toilet with a wooden seat and I can't find any gold ones in London. Do you know where I could get a gold toilet? I have had affairs with women so I think I must be doing something right there. What do you think, me amigo? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 03, 1998 at 20:41:25 (EST)
From: God Almighty Incarnate Email: None To: Sir David Subject: Practice makes Perfect Master Message: Sir David, The affairs thing is good. You show some progress. You are going to have to come up to speed on these other things if you ever expect people to kiss your feet. Life is like a old saw: one sharpens it by practice, practice, practice. Are you married? Try beating your wife for practice. Do you have a business? Berate and humiliate your employees. Got kids? Make them sing incestuous songs to you while you leer and play pocket pool. You get the idea. One final piece of advise to you since I know what's best for you: Watch a lot of television, especially soap operas. This will sharpen your uges for nice things, teach you how to torment the people around you and of course, increase your sensitivity to hanky panky. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 04, 1998 at 09:02:13 (EST)
From: Richard Email: None To: Amigo Subject: Free egg-sucking lessons? Message: Dear Amigo, Well what do you think of the replies to your masterly and incisive summary of 'where we are at'? My own summary statistics indicate that only a few people could even be bothered to reply directly to you while the rest talked among themselves. This is not a good sign Amigo, you have to engage peoples interest to start a debate, not bore them to death by repeating old satsang tapes. We've been there and done that. Here are a few recommendations; Stating the obvious We know why you do what you do, what you claim to get out of it and what the path to spiritual enlightenment is about. Denying Maharaji's Claims Please do not re-state what are and what are not Maharaji's claims about his role and status. We are only too well aware of the variety of the claims, depending on the year, public relations need and whether or not the jet needs re-fueling. Clarifying the nature of Ashrams Please don't do it, most of us have inhabited the damn things and are little too sensitive to the 'black is white' thing. Also you should check out what other premies are saying here before you launch into your jihad. Check out Bruce and DOC in particular and our attempts to have a meaningful dialogue with them. Finally, show a little respect. No, I don't mean using bad language you shit-faced little fuck...that's just a little attention getter to let you know we'd rather talk to you than the garbage-spouting premie 'droid you're hiding behind. We'd like you to respect the fact that we have all spent days, months and years considering all the stuff you mention in your post and still feel the way we do, precisely because of our considerations. Being talked down to by someone who comes across as a pompous little prick is annoying. Comprendez Amigo. Have a nice day. Richard Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 04, 1998 at 13:09:25 (EST)
From: Robyn Email: None To: Richard Subject: Free egg-sucking lessons? Message: Dear Richard, You shithead, fucker! Just my gentle attempt at commradery through foul language! Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 04, 1998 at 21:02:28 (EST)
From: Ched Email: None To: Robyn Subject: Free head-fucking lessons Message: Since we're using foul language, I think the title of this post neatly describes some of the premie's posts. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 04, 1998 at 17:30:26 (EST)
From: Amigo Email: None To: Amigo Subject: Student or Wannabe? Message: To all, Jim and Paul, chronologically he did declare at his father’s death at age eight that he would assume that role that his father had before him. However remember that he was teaching from an earlier age, even when his father lived. By the time his father died he had been practicing Knowledge for some years, and had mastered it. Somewhat like a child prodigy, who at a very early age becomes so proficient at his study, that he could teach it to others less proficient. I’m somewhat reminded of Jesus, who at the age of twelve went to the yearly journey to the Temple. On the way back from this event, his mother Mary thought that he was with his father Joseph, while Joseph thought he was with his mother. Somewhere along the return journey they realized that he was with neither of them. Panicked they hurried back to the Temple, retracing their trip, searching for their young son. When they found Jesus he was lecturing and debating with the priests. Mary scolded him asking him how he could put them through such a scare by not telling them he was going back to the Temple. His reply was something like' Mother, don’t you know that I have to go about my Father’s business'? So he basically told his earthly parents that he had a greater mission to accomplish for his 'Father' in heaven. This parallels with Maharaji’s schism with his family. His family tried to assert their worldly relationship and authority with him, but he chose to do his 'father’s work' instead, to their dismay. That’s the way I see it, which doesn’t make me an idiot, nor full of it, Jim. It’s really easy to dismiss points others make with: Yeah, yeah, blah, blah, blah,. Avoidance through crudeness is always an easy out. Joy, I find you one of the more open people of the 'ex-premie' club. At least you respond with intelligent arguments and sincerity, not the crudeness and tangential avoidance that some others seem to relish in. Is the experience of Knowledge, the meditation or the Master. Again I can only give my opinion. For me the two become increasing linked as time goes by and the experience becomes more solidified in my life. The example is like a gift which someone gives you. At first you see the packaging which may or may not be attractive, for some it was the god-guru, lord of the universe thing, the divine light mission organization group thing, the I’m saved thing, spiritual enlightenment/nirvana, etc. Then you open the gift and see it, which may or may not impress you: some saw and had an incredible experience during their knowledge session, some said is that all there is ?, I didn’t really feel anything, like smoking pot for the first time. Then you take this gift home and examine it a little more carefully: some say that’s pretty nice, I guess I can use it, others say what a piece of junk, who needs it and throw it in the trash. It’s all personal perception. Those that decide to keep it, begin to use it in their lives to differing degrees, it begins to take on a deeper meaning, and increasingly has more value for them. As the gift increases in value, your appreciation for the giver naturally increases, to the point that if the gift is great, your appreciation for the giver is also great. If one can show you a place within yourself where true peace, love and joy resides, then my appreciation turns to devotion. After all what is devotion , but gratitude to the giver. Just like in a romantic relationship, love, caring and trust is exchanged, each one is devoted to the other. When you think about it in a different sense, everyone is devoted to something: your mate, children, job, position in life, power, money, sex, sports, music, etc. and all these things give us back differing degrees of happiness or pleasure. Of course this is a complex issue since it involves human feelings and individual perception, but our needs are the same. Another point I’d like to make is that, by establishing this site and defining yourselves as 'ex-premies', it is you that have set yourselves apart from other people, just like some 'premies' think themselves apart from the rest of humanity. However fundamentally we’re all human beings who are living now and who will inevitably die. Between those two events is one’s life with all its experiences: an opportunity that may or may not happen again. What we make of life, is based on our free will choices, and no one else has the responsibility for your life, just you. Those choices are made by our mind and heart, by our intellect and feelings. The mind is an intellectual machine, like a computer, data-in, processing, data-out. A great tool which enables us to understand and define our life experiences and events. Without it, there would be no evolution toward higher existence. But it is just a tool, not good or bad. The goal is not to loose your mind and analytical thinking capacity, but rather to CONTROL your mind, and not have it controlling you. It’s the difference between use and addiction, order and chaos. Meditation is a tool which assists you in accomplishing that control. The teacher of meditation is there to also assist you and remind you of that fact. The heart or spirit is the essential part of who we are that lives on when the material part ceases. Human beings are composite beings made of both matter (mind) and spirit (energy). Meditation assists you in KNOWING that permanent component which is eternal. The more you’re there, the more your familiarity with it grows. It’s really simple and not complicated at all. Finally, why does Maharaji insert himself into the process with apparent worldly gain. Well if one needs a teacher to assist in this transformation, then the teacher becomes a critical part of the equation, as the giver or revealer of that internal experience. Like a dance partner, which is needed for the dance. As far as personal gain, where does one draw the line for acceptable or unacceptable gain? After all our world is full of people across a full spectrum of poor and rich. Corporate executive, sports figure, actor or entrepreneur can have great material possessions, what do they contribute to humanity that warrants such payback? A few minutes of excitement or pleasure or some artifact with a temporal function. What about the one who can show you your true self, what’s the relative value of that experience? The Christians expect Christ to come again as a King, not a pauper. But if he really came as a King would he be accepted or criticized? I believe we judge everything in this world on a material scale, after all it’s the nature of the material universe to have gradients. But in realty, none of this world has any permanent value, it’s all dust in the wind. What has true value is beyond time and space, and it can be accessed at the closest terminal: inside every human being. Some Teachers have taught this fundamental truth and have given a tool to unlock the doorway to the heart since the beginning of humankind. Maharaji is one of those teachers, with all the human flaws and imperfections that are associated with this human form, but that does not negate that he can show you the flawless within you. There’s a saying ' that which the Teacher teaches is always greater that the teacher himself'. Were there and are there all sorts of trips and anti-trips associated with this experience, you bet, and there always will be because it deals with imperfect human beings, that’s why there are 'premies' and 'ex-premies'. However, all that crap is not going to stop me from experiencing my true self, and when I experience that indefinable feeling, I am grateful to my Creator for this life, and to my Teacher for revealing where that experience is and giving me a tool to get there. By the way, Grated cheese I was in the military during the Vietnam war, so don’t tell me about having my nose ground in the mud, I ate and spit-out guys like you and shit-mouth Gerry daily, before I realized the meaninglessness of it all. I also learned to take responsibility for my actions, and not blame the next guy because things went wrong in my life. The problem with most of you 'ex-premies' at this site is that you blame Maharaji for your own psychological complexities. Work it out yourself, and stop endlessly whining about how much Maharaji screwed you up for life, how your going to save others from the same fate. Sounds like a cult mission to me. And the reason why premies don’t stay around this site is because it’s a waste of time trying to communicate with you liberal-minded free spirits. As soon as anyone says anything that challenges your 'open-minded', cult-free point of view, you attack with vulgarity, insults and the same old nonsense that you accuse the premies of. I think you’re the ones who feel superior to the 'zombie premies' and are going to save the world from the great Maharaji cult monster. Grow-up and assume responsibility for your own actions. No one can make you do anything you don’t want to. Live and let live. Give us break, and go on with your lives. Arrivederci…..L’amigo Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 04, 1998 at 18:32:58 (EST)
From: Rick Email: None To: Amigo Subject: Student or Wannabe? Message: El Stupido, What a boring litany. I suspect that using the cult to hide your problems makes your pomposity worse than it already is. I think most of us here used to do that. But I have to say... there were premies I disliked intensely, even when I followed BM. They were so obnoxious, that even under the schizophrenic trance of the cult, I couldn't help but dislike them. That's how I feel about you. Your're an asshole. Chances are, you'll be an asshole when you finish following BM. So don't hurry. Leaving BM isn't going to help you that much. Alot of therapy? It might help a little. You're probably content being a jerk. It probably pleases you that people don't like you. Rick Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 04, 1998 at 18:45:17 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Amigo Subject: Student or Wannabe? Message: Amigo, Discussing this with you is like having a conversation with a flat-earther or maybe holocaust revisionist. The hardest part is maintaing composure as one realizes that the broad expanse of common ground we humans usually enjoy, namely common sense, isn't available. It's like coming home after work, walking in the door and going to kiss your wife -- only, she says she doesn't know you. Deadpan, unrelenting, anyone might be forgiven, after some time, for thinking maybe they've gone mad. 'Maybe she's not my wife. She certainly SEEMS sincere and honest'. You're kind of like that, Amigo. On the surface you seem to have your tackle together. You methodically address all your correspondents and try to cover their points and arguments. Now that in itself is usually a good sign. And you write clearly enough. Another good sign. You've even chosen a clever moniker that allows me to call you by your 'name' everytime I'd be otherwise strained and facetious, eh Amigo? But alas, this surface grooming is only that. Substantively, I'm afraid, your posts are truly nonsense. As I say, they defy common-sense. They make me wonder, 'did Maharaji really do THAT to me too once?' I hope not. Okay, it would be far too tedious for me to respond to all your points so I'll just focus on our own particular exchange. I'd asked you when Maharaji became a 'master'. Your reply, today, is: Jim and Paul, chronologically he did declare at his father’s death at age eight that he would assume that role that his father had before him. However remember that he was teaching from an earlier age, even when his father lived. By the time his father died he had been practicing Knowledge for some years, and had mastered it. Somewhat like a child prodigy, who at a very early age becomes so proficient at his study, that he could teach it to others less proficient. Now, I guess the best thing to do would be to ask you how you know? How do you know any of this is true? Were you there? Did you read the Mishler report of what really happened? Are you familiar with Bal Bhagwan Ji's story of how HE first showed his own budding gurunition: Birth into the family of an enlightened Yogi, combined with his own inherent tendencies, facilitated his spiritual development from a very early age. By the age of two he was already sitting for long periods in deep meditation, and he would encourage others to do so, too. His father once commented that his consciousness, naturally drawn inward to rest within itself, was to be coaxed outwards for the spiritual benefit of others. Growing up in a spiritual environment under the strict guidance of his father and surrounded by mahatmas and devotees, he became a master of the spiritual sciences at an early age. How about the material David Lane has on his page about the entire history of the turf fights and squabbling in the various known 'lineages' of all these so-called Rhadmonshodi (sp?) gurus? So, staying calm in spite of my really strong urge to call you a flaming idiot again, let me ask you, Amigo, how ecatly do you know? I think that if we took the time to hve a fair discussion about this it would be soon apparent that you DON'T know, you just believe. Unfortunately, you've chosen to misrepresent yourself. Another thing you've said reminds me of the old satsang tapes (the ones in our heads): When you think about it in a different sense, everyone is devoted to something: your mate, children, job, position in life, power, money, sex, sports, music, etc. and all these things give us back differing degrees of happiness or pleasure. Of course this is a complex issue since it involves human feelings and individual perception, but our needs are the same.(emphasis mine). Amigo, this kind of hackneyed spiritual 'poetry' is really misleading and, if you're the least bit interested in learning to think properly, you should give it up. 'Devotion' has its own unique qualities. As ever much as people might like the many things you or anyone could list, the mental fixation is completely different from devotion. I guess even you knew that when you tried to give yourself a little room there. But, sorry, Amigo, this metaphor is absolutely worthless. So, here's my next question for you: You've drawn a lot of venom here with just one or two posts. Can you understand why? Do you think it's because you've presented such a strong argument that people feel stymied and can only react in frustrated an defensive emotionalism? Or, can you see something else about your communication that is possibly infuriating to anyone who wouldn't share your views? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 04, 1998 at 21:25:10 (EST)
From: Grated Cheddar Email: David.Studio57@btinternet.com To: Amigo Subject: You missed the point Amigo Message: Dear Amigo, you wrote; 'By the way, Grated cheese I was in the military during the Vietnam war, so dont tell me about having my nose ground in the mud, I ate and spit-out guys like you and shit-mouth Gerry daily,' Well you missed my point. My point was that such an experience of having your face rubbed in the dirt would show that we are all equal. But by the tone of what you wrote above I can see that you think you are vastly superior to me and most other people on the forum. You are a bad advert for Maharaji, Amigo. You are going to put people off Maharaji with this sort of superior behavour. I said that you were just another ordinary clown like the rest of us. You don't agree with me do you. You have a problem relating to ordinary people. Perhaps the only people you can respect and relate to are those people who fall into line with Maharaji's way. You portray a good example of how people DON'T want to be, i.e. narrow minded and insular and overly critical of others. I feel no love coming from you to anyone here. I feel only superior distain. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 04, 1998 at 23:58:06 (EST)
From: Grated Cheddar Email: David.tudio57@btinternet.com To: Amigo Subject: You missed the point Part 2 Message: I just got out of bed again and thought of something else I want to say. I have known several guys who fought in the Falklands war and they had a problem coming back to civvy street because civilians had no comprehension of the horror they had been a part of. The mother of my two children is Vietnamese and she has plenty of horror stories she can tell me about the war in the sixties. It's understandable that if a soldier has been in a military conflict then they can feel set apart from other people. This is understood and appreciated. Amigo; how do you know what sort of person I am? You clearly don't know. But surely if you meditate then some time you will have seen a light or felt some peace. If you have then it is the same light and peace that I've experienced. That's it. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 04, 1998 at 22:27:05 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Amigo Subject: reply (2) Message: Oh hell, why not chat a little more, eh Amigo? I've calmed down now a bit. I've read your post over a few times and think you deserve more love and attention. I didn't comment on your Jesus parable. Again, like with the story about Maharaji as a kid -- but really even more so -- I have to ask how in the world you know that story's true? Really, is this the kind of stuff your base your life on? And before you try to wiggle away saying that it's not, be fair. Think for a moment. It's your story; YOU'RE the one who relied on it. Joy, I find you one of the more open people of the 'ex-premie' club. At least you respond with intelligent arguments and sincerity, not the crudeness and tangential avoidance that some others seem to relish in. Is the experience of Knowledge, the meditation or the Master. Again I can only give my opinion. (my emphasis). Let's talk about this a bit, Amigo. To what extent is all that you say here just 'your opinion' and to what extent is it 'just the way it is'? You're right when, in saying: His family tried to assert their worldly relationship and authority with him, but he chose to do his 'father’s work' instead, to their dismay. That’s the way I see it, which doesn’t make me an idiot, nor full of it, Jim. you're careful to say that's just how you see it. But really, aren't you being a little casual, to say the least, in your search for truth? (I'm assuming that you care about the truth here. If I'm wrong, just let me know). You weren't privy to Maharaji's inner thoughts then were you? How do you know what really happened? You don't, do you? This is just the only one of many possible explanations that you can countenance without risking your image of Maharaji. Tell me, would you care to hear Satpal's side of the story? Besides, can't you see how easy it is, in the right conditions, to start one of these osftly back-lit Disneyesque religious legends? Here, from 'And it is Divine', is a little blurb about Satpal's magesterial destiny: The autumnul equinox is that day of the year when the sun has reached its highest point in the sky, and is giving light for the smae amount of time to all people. It is the moment of the peak of creation. Mahatma Satyanand Ji, one of the greatest disciples of Shri Maharaj Ji, predicted that the Master's first son would be born on this equinox. So it was that Shri Bal Bhagwan Ji [Satpal] came into this world the very instant the sun reached its zenith on September 21, 1951. A keenly observant parent can often determine a child's personality at a very early age. With the four Hans children it was not a difficult task. The disciples of Shri Maharaj Ji had constructed a beautiful chariot in which the three-year-old Bal Bhagwan Ji sat. A procession celebrating the child's birthdy was to be held with all of the Shri Maharaji Ji's disciples parading joyfully through the street of Delhi. Above the confusion of hundreds of thousands of people, little Bal Bhagwan Ji wathced quietly as crowds pressed so tightly that the chariot came to a halt. A disciple anxiously asked Shri Maharaj Ji if the procession should be discontinued. Shri Maharaj Ji replied, 'Let he who is running the procession decide.' Then Bal Bhagwan Ji stood up, and taking a large stick, he bagn to direct the chariot throng. The chariot moved forward and the parade continued. Onlookers threw flowers from their windows and balconies and all of the people began to sing.' Pretty embarrassing, isn't it? Yet this is the very same myth-making machine you're relying on, Amigo. And what can you say? That Satpal really was divine back then and somehow lost it? Is he the arch angel of darkness now? Or ... or what? Give yourself a shake, friend, this stuff is stupid. Everything you say is so off-the-shelf 1973. Really, are you for real or are you just another ex playing with us like John HS? I just have to ask. Well, I've got to go. Band practice. But first, I do want to ask about this: Maharaji is one of those teachers, with all the human flaws and imperfections that are associated with this human form... Premies like the sound of that. I know becuase they often say it for convenience sake apparently. But every time I ask them what 'flaws and imperfections' they back away. Right Jack?. So tell me, Amigo, what falws and imperfections do you see in your master? Is it that he's too fat? Ugly and fat? Short? A little ugly, fat and short? Is it that? Or does he have any personality flaws and imperfections? Well? I'm waiting. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jun 05, 1998 at 06:14:25 (EST)
From: Judex Email: None To: Amigo Subject: Student or Wannabe? Message: Dear whoever you are, Every single point you have made in your post is a direct re-statement of one of Maharaji's teachings. It makes no more or less sense when you say it than when he says it. Why do you think I for one would need someone to repeat what I have been listening to for the past five years? Do you think I didn't hear it from the horse's mouth? Do you think I am deaf, or stupid, or something? Do you have any ideas of your own? You are very non-specificl when you describe the effect Knowledge has on you. You sound so very brainwashed. Sorry, I don't need a master to dance with my soul, my soul is dancing, has danced and always will dance, and I didn't need to pay the piper until I allowed myself to be convinced by the boy wonder there was something more than I knew waiting to be revealed to me by him. Why do you say we should get give you a break and get on with our lives? Why don't you fuck off? That would give me a break. my heart belongs to me Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jun 05, 1998 at 07:15:47 (EST)
From: Richard Email: None To: Amigo Subject: Three Strikes and.... Message: Well Amigo, you wouldn't take my advice would you? I told you to read up on other premies stuff, particularly Bruce and DOC, but no, you know best huh! Now look what you've done. You've painted yourself into a corner, you've upset Jim and, worst of all, you made Judex so cross she swore. GO TO YOUR ROOM THIS INSTANT!...AND DON'T COME DOWN UNTIL YOU'RE SORRY YOU'RE GROUNDED MISTER! See, that's how you talk to us, like we are a bunch of know-nothing kids. But why am I so surprised, that's the way Maharaji talks to you and also how most premies talk to the rest of the world. Believe it or not Amigo, the world is full of bright, intelligent and loving people who care deeply about each other but who do not believe that Maharaji contributes significantly to their life experience. If you have something to say, try saying it without using premie-speak or quoting from the bible. You can't spread the message by speaking in tongues. Your experiences in Vietnam must have been significant, maybe you could tell us about that. It must have meant a great deal to you and I'm sure that many people here could relate to that. 'Til then... Richard Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jun 05, 1998 at 12:22:13 (EST)
From: Gerry Email: None To: Amigo Subject: the best i can do now Message: Dear pal 'shit-mouthed'? I'm crushed as well as hung over, so all i can manage right now is a plain ole 'fuck you'. i'll trash you more later you piss ant dork Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jun 05, 1998 at 13:12:42 (EST)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs To: Gerry Subject: the best i can do now Message: Dear Gerry, Must have done more than dinner and a movie to get that hang over, ha! Hope you had a great b-day. Robyn Did you see Mirabai is a gemini too! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 03, 1998 at 00:15:47 (EST)
From: bill burke Email: None To: Everyone Subject: to the doc person Message: d.o.c. You mentioned that you honestly dont know what M or anyone else feels. You have to admit that runs contrary to most of your posts. You had some bleak views on the motives of ashram people and thier feelings. Your assessment of virtually anybody you mentioned in your posts was so filled with condensencion that I believe you when you say you actually dont know what others feel. Which is not good! My main gripes with prem rawat are the long running 'Iam god' view and also the lack of recognition of basic human realities. The coming global depression caused by the computer date fiasco and the euro are bad enough, but to have him parade around the globe as the great saviour and definer of the dogma of the life breath is just ugly. The internet may very well come crashing down also. I personally am planning for all that and even without the normal systems operateing I have ideas that will alert religions to the misguided 'I am god' rawat roadshow. I have a hard time believing that there is someone in the audience at the programs that would fake the doc posts like this or actually BE like this. I know that prem rawat is a mix of characters and depression and crying is part of that mix. You think the power has no personality but it shows itself in human nature and the results and reactions and feelings we have. They are clues and signals and to just have distain and a 'so what!' and 'Too bad' attitude is failure to get the message. To dig your heels in and grip pride and ego even tighter (as someone here mentioned) is perhaps what a self made god would do but reality calls for a different reaction. The pursuit of clinging to the breath is hardly the whole deal and is actually not the crucial part. The crucial part is nowhere to be found in your posts or head or heart. Your continued mistake causes people to have to try and warn about you and work against you. You look here and see only the stuff you can distain and see what you can use to prop up your view. I guess you can't let go and 'surrender' and accept reality. You know that point where you wanted to go back and this time say 'yes'? Well, there is another point further back that set in stone a basic misperception of life that is your big stumbleing block. Based on your posts, I find no reason to think you will ever break free of your programming. You claim flexibility on many fronts. But in case you didn't want to check, the one inflexible area is your downfall and has always been your downfall. Since you cant break through that one sticking point, I have to dedicate some of the rest of my life to stopping you. Thanks again. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 03, 1998 at 02:03:50 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: bill burke Subject: Oh my God! Message: Since you cant break through that one sticking point, I have to dedicate some of the rest of my life to stopping you. Doc, It looks like you've just obtained an Ex-premie Big Brother! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Jun 02, 1998 at 18:58:51 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Everyone Subject: A very funny guy Message: Some of you already know who Harry Shearer is. He was the bass player in the movie 'Spinal Tap' and does a number of the voices in 'The Simpsons'. If you saw 'Godzilla' he was the creepy, anchorman too. But I know him best for his radio show, 'Le Show'. When I used to live in L.A. it was one of my favorite shows on my favorite station, KCRW. Anyway, here's a link to the archives where you can check out some of Harry's skits, inculding an interview with the 'last' member of Heaven's Gate (who didn't go for the ride because he doesn't like either pudding or applesauce) or Deepak Chopra's Christmas special ('spend an hour of your holiday special lighting up the tree inside'). Some of Harry's stuff is completely hilarious. Here's the link: Harry Shearer's Le Show Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Jun 02, 1998 at 19:10:41 (EST)
From: VP, in-between packing Email: None To: Jim Subject: Nuabians-another cult Message: Jim, Speaking of cults, have you ever heard of the Nuabians? (That is probably misspelled. It is pronounced 'new-ah-bee-uns') They are a huge worldwide cult. They claim to be from another planet. They say that a spaceship is planning to pick them up in the year 2003. (Sounds like a mighty big bowl of punch to me.) They will be holding an open house soon, for anyone who is interested. VP Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 03, 1998 at 08:46:02 (EST)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs To: VP, in-between packing Subject: Nuabians-another cult Message: Dear VP, They must be goat herding aliens because Nubians is a type of goat. They, the goats, do have a lot of personality, maybe they are the aliens! Watch for ever growing numbers in their herds!!! Have a great vacation! That IS one thing I miss about not running off to festivals to see the LORD! All that sun, fun, and surf in sunny FL every May and November! Enjoy! Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 03, 1998 at 13:06:17 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: Jim Subject: A very funny guy Message: Jim, Shearer's Le Show is still running from KCRW in Santa Monica, and it picked up by many NPR stations. I know it runs in San Francisco on NPR at noon on Sundays. I never miss it. It really is brilliant and wickedly funny. He also does some of the voices on the Simpsons. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Jun 02, 1998 at 18:43:00 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Come on, Premies! Message: Why is it that you guys always leave the discussions at the best parts? George? Doc? Jack? Hey, OP, think I've forgotten? You wee going to explain away all the inconsistencies. What happened? Chris? Mili? No, forget it, Mili. Believe me, forget it. But how about you, Pam? I thought we were getting to know each other. I REALLY like you, Pam. Honest, I'm not one of those one or two-dimensional guys you meet everywhere. Please, Pam, please? And Annie? Everyone thinks you're so precious here. Like Alice in Wonderland only more innocent. Why hast thou forsaken us? Is it me? Tell me, Bruce, is it? Cause if it is I'll go and kill myself RIGHT NOW! Come on, let's get real here. I'm holding a knife to my throat (we've got really strict gun control in Canada). I'll do it if I have to. Anything to get you guys talking with us again. Richard, can you go round up some more of those guys or something? Aw forget it. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 03, 1998 at 06:52:17 (EST)
From: Richard Email: None To: Jim Subject: OK..OK...Hey Nurse!!...Nurse!! Message: Hey Jim, It's OK, we'll try and get you some action man, but really I think one Viagra is more than enough for a man in your condition.. ..........Nurse?.............NURSE!!! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 03, 1998 at 08:50:26 (EST)
From: Bruce Email: None To: Jim Subject: Soapbox leap Message: Jim, Just jump.! If the fall doesn't get you the bullshit you surround yourself will. Premies have better things to do than debate endlessly with you . Bruce Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 03, 1998 at 12:41:57 (EST)
From: Premmey Email: None To: Bruce Subject: Soapbox leap Message: Premies have better things to do than debate endlessly with you. What better do premies have to do? Please, I am all ears. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Jun 02, 1998 at 17:32:01 (EST)
From: d@vid Email: expremie@geocities.com To: Everyone Subject: Risen from the ashes Message: Just to let everyone know that I've put the old 'CultWatch' site back on line. It's at http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Troy/1710/ Maybe Brian will humour me by providing a link to it on the 'Site History' page. Apart from the frightening pictures of a grey haired gentleman balancing on a baragon, it may give some people a little light entertainment. It's not intended as competition to this site in any way and I won't be updating it. I just felt that I'd put a lot of work into it and it was fairly simple to put it out to grass on a GeoCities freebie site. Click here to see it. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Jun 02, 1998 at 17:48:26 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: d@vid Subject: Risen from the ashes Message: D@ve, Thanks so much. So YOU'RE 'D@ve'? I didn't get that. How are you doing, man? What's up? You know, I liked you a lot better than our new webmaster who won't let us do anything fun around here! I've asked around hoping there was some commission at the U.N. we could talk to but, nope, no one seems to give a shit about nothing anymore. Do you think maybe you could talk to Shri Brian and ask him .... sorry, I better not say anything. I've already said too much. Help, D@vid. (And can you get that bitch, you-know-who, off our backs while you're at it? D@vid, you have no idea how bad it's gotten. Look, this will give you some idea -- she's virtually chased Mili right gone to who-knows-where. And poor Bill's taken to seeing Maharaji in everyone again!) Thanks again for all the work you did, David. Seriously. I only hope that I look as good when I get anywhere NEAR your age. Jim Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Jun 02, 1998 at 18:43:48 (EST)
From: d@vid Email: None To: Jim Subject: Risen from the ashes Message: Ho Jim Man... WHO is that bitch 'you know who'? I haven't a clue... I must admit that I haven't been paying a lot of attention recently. But I did notice that ol' Masher Mili seems to have crawled back up his drain pipe. More's the pity really as I always thought he provided quite a lot in the way of entertainment value. I have to say that I feel a bit let down by Brother Brian... I had hoped he would expand the content of the site but he seems to have got well and truly stuck in the Forum. I'm all for a bit of dialogue but not at the sake of some hard-hitting content. But perhaps I shouldn't say to much or he won't give my dear ol' site a link on his history spot. BTW, have you heard anything from Scott? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Jun 02, 1998 at 18:50:19 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: d@vid Subject: Risen from the ashes Message: David, The bitch? What bitch? I didn't say anything about no bitch? What browser are you using? You know, I think Brian and some helpers are beefing up the site. It's just taking some time, that's all. I think Chris is helping or something. I can't remember. So wht are you doing these days? How's the baby? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Jun 02, 1998 at 18:59:09 (EST)
From: d@vid Email: None To: Jim Subject: Risen from the ashes Message: Yeah, I shouldn't criticise Brian... he's done a great job on the Forum. It's just that I kinda preferred it the way it was. Before all the yucky brown and the excremental expremie logo which looks like it's something best avoided on the pavement (sidewalk). Baby Amy's 11 months old tomorrow and is doing fine. She's crawling around and putting anything within reach into her mouth. Her screams have to be heard to be believed. Anyway... enough of this domestic reverie... I'm off to bed. Have fun and take care. What news on Scott Perry, father of this ex-premie.org enterprise? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Jun 02, 1998 at 20:02:25 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: d@vid Subject: Risen from the ashes Message: Right David, I forgot. I tried to reach Scott some time ago to no avail. I'll try again and see if he responds, then I'll post what happened. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 03, 1998 at 00:07:31 (EST)
From: Brian Email: brian@ex-premie.org To: d@vid Subject: Risen from the ashes Message: I have to say that I feel a bit let down by Brother Brian... I had hoped he would expand the content of the site but he seems to have got well and truly stuck in the Forum. I'm all for a bit of dialogue but not at the sake of some hard-hitting content. But perhaps I shouldn't say to much or he won't give my dear ol' site a link on his history spot. Thank you for yet another endorsement, David. The help that you offered when I took over was touching. Your own personal bit of dialogue that you've seen fit to post since taking off to have your own life has been most helpful also. Perhaps if you weren't so stuck in the forum you might even be able to contribute some hard-hitting content - something not shit-colored in your eyes. I asked you what part you wanted to play in the site. You responded, 'In a word, none'. You have kept your word. Aside from making an appearance every now and then to whine, you have contributed nothing. Your own personal experience handling the forum was ZERO. As in: 'you never even ran an archive'. But I appreciate your concern that I have spent too much time writing and supporting the forum, and not enough time posting your hard-hitting content. You know my email address. Send all your recent scoops and I'll get them right online. If you can take time away from webmastering on your own little site, your efforts would certainly be appreciated here by the rest of us who are bogged down here in the forum. Perhaps you would care to learn Perl and do the future upgrades? There have been many suggestions as to what the forum should do. You could write a perly-thing to search for words among the posts. I've been a bit negligent on that particular request, but you seem to have time now. You don't have to worry about doing the re-writes to allow other languages to have forums, since I wasted MY time on that already. Unfortunately, you don't seem to speak French, so all efforts to impress you with the French pages went for nothing. Tonight I downloaded over 5 megs of pictures of an event in England that you didn't cover for us - someone else did. All 17 pictures need to be edited and cleaned up some before being uploaded to the site. Let me know when you want to start doing that. I'll be glad to link to your site. What good is self-indulgence if others aren't going to play along? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 03, 1998 at 05:34:13 (EST)
From: d@vid Email: None To: Brian Subject: Risen from the ashes Message: Ouch, that really hurt. I won't whine but I hope you'll forgive me if I just make a short statement for the defence... The help I offered when you took over the site was sincerely meant. In the event you didn't ask for any, so none was given. You asked me what role I wanted to play and I said none because I wanted you to feel free to make any changes you wanted. Beyond one tongue-in-cheek reference to the excremental ex-premie logo, I don't think I've made any derogatory comments about the site changes you've made. Regarding the Forum, I did spend many a frustrated hour trying to figure out how to update Scott's early versions but I have to admit that I don't share your enthusiasm for the place. IMHO the newsgroup generated better dialogue... perhaps because it was a little less immediate. But everyone to their own. And no, I wouldn't spend days learning 'perly things' to enable readers to search for words within the Forum posts because I really don't think it's worth the effort. My main criticism is that I wanted the site to provide more support for premies, ex-premies and anyone connected with them. By getting 'bogged down in the Forum', I can't help feeling you've lost the plot. But don't take umbrage at such citicisms... it's just my opinion, and free speech is what it's all about. David P.S. I look forward to seeing the review of the English event. And I think the French translation is great. And perhaps I could even get to like the new logo. But perhaps not;-) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 03, 1998 at 18:00:59 (EST)
From: Rodney King Email: None To: d@vid Subject: Risen from the ashes Message: Hi, it's Jim. Here's my opinion: I like the brown. Well, its okay at least. Brown's in these days and I've had to compeltely redo my wardrobe. (Putting on twenty pounds was just one factor). But anyways, it's really sad -- I'm sincere, by the way -- to see you guys not get along like this. As you both must know, no one can even have a proper opinion about who's done what work because, speaking for myself anyway, I've never done any of this web shit. I wouldn't know wher to begin and I think we all have to just assume the obvious that both of you and Scott Perry have done a lot in the name of truth. That's serious. (Why do I have to keep saying that?). David, I'm not sure what kind of 'support' you envision that the forum doesn't accomodate. You're not talking Knowledge reviews are you? Financial planning? (Just kidding). Frankly, I think the Forum works just great that way. After all, it's just people talking with people. A lot of former premies have expressed some pretty profound appreciation for the support they've recieved here. What is it exactly you think could be better. I've got a few pet suggestions I think would be cool here. I've already made them. (An extensive links page, more pics, including some funny-captioned ones, maybe even a few small video clips from either LOTU or one of M's current insipid videos). But all in due course, no? Or maybe not. It's not my page, I only play here. On another point, though, I wonder if money's a consideration at all. Brian what's up with that? Does this page cost you money beyond the initial amount a few people put in last year? Laurie, my gf, thinks a donation box is a bad idea because it immediately triggers association associations, if you know what I mean, but I think whatever it takes. Finally, I do agree with your 'free expression' point, David. And, of course, as you've just experienced, that cuts both ways. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 03, 1998 at 18:26:15 (EST)
From: Louise Woodw@rd Email: None To: Rodney King Subject: Risen from the ashes Message: You lawyer creeps are all the same. Just when a gal needs a bit of support, you swop sides and start making eyes at the cops. Sheesh... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 04, 1998 at 12:05:11 (EST)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Rodney King Subject: Risen from the ashes Message: Dear Jim, Did you get my card in the mail yet? No really, I have been feeling pretty raw emotionally lately, nothing to do with moon cycles if you were wondering, but this post of yours is really beautiful. Your words here give you away as that wonderful caring person you so often keep out of these preceedings (leagal term for your comfort in this probably to emotional message). Enough said. I could go on I'm just being considerate for your sake. Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 03, 1998 at 08:59:23 (EST)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs To: Brian Subject: Risen from the ashes Message: Dear Brian, Of course I don't know what the site was like before you were webmaster but I think you know how much all of us who participate here think of you and all your very hard work! Thank you dear, Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Jun 02, 1998 at 16:20:20 (EST)
From: Gerry Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Gotta see God Message: Does anyone know for sure the dates the Big Poobah is bring his circus to Seattle? I've heard a couple of different dates and would be sorely disappointed if I missed the really big show. This could be bigger than Clapton or--dare I say it--The Beatles. HELP! PS Patty wants to be initiated before hand so she can get off too. Swami Cheesemeister are you available or do I have to do it myself? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Jun 02, 1998 at 16:24:47 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Gerry Subject: Gotta see God Message: Gerry, I'd like to know too. Really, maybe we could all meet up with Joy or something. Jim Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 03, 1998 at 00:32:08 (EST)
From: Joy Email: Bluebirdd@aol.com To: Jim Subject: Gonna Miss God Message: I'd love to host an ex-premie delegation to the convention center on the 11th of July, but unfortunately (or fortunately, depending on how you look at it) will be out of town, so will have to miss God this go-round. I look forward to hearing what you all have to say about it though, and am sorry I won't get to meet you, Jim, Gerry and Carol! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Jun 02, 1998 at 19:41:42 (EST)
From: VP Email: None To: Gerry Subject: Gotta see God Message: I swear I'm NOT addicted to this forum. I AM going to take a break. Hey, Gerry, don't forget my coffee mugs when you go. Two, okay? I'll tell you where to send them. Wish I could go with you. I'd like to meet you and Jim. Couldn't care less about BM, though. Tell Patty to go to the Knowledge section on this site and she can get knowledge there--from an ex-initiator! Also there is a link to the old site where I received knowledge-snicker- above. (See the thread about back from the ashes.) Just make sure she doesn't push on her eyes like I did! Danger, Will Robinson! VP Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Jun 02, 1998 at 22:14:18 (EST)
From: carol Email: None To: VP Subject: Gotta see God-Seattle Message: Gerry and all, Someone sent Brian info so maybe he can vaidate it: July 11 at Washington St Convention and Trade Center 800 Convention Pl. room 6E Time???? carol Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 03, 1998 at 00:01:53 (EST)
From: Charles Email: None To: Gerry Subject: Gotta see God Message: I looked in the e-mail I got from a premie inviting me to attend in Denver or Seattle but I had deleted that one. I am looking forward to what you will have to say about it. I got the Hans Yog Prakash. Thank you. I have begun to read it and am seeing where misinterpretation could cause problems with understanding. When I have gotten farther into it I will offer what comments I have. Thank you again. Charles Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 03, 1998 at 07:07:43 (EST)
From: Paul Email: None To: Gerry Subject: Gotta see God Message: 11th July - mixed event (according to the official schedule) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Jun 02, 1998 at 15:28:08 (EST)
From: Judex Email: None To: Scott and everyone Subject: To Scott - Thought - off topic Message: I woke up this morning very early with this insight on my mind - Scott I think you would like this so I want to draw your attention to it. This is sort of it (the 'message/information' was quite clear - describing it is harder). Due mainly to the web, life is going to change a lot, specifically, the future of advertising is going to disappear. This is because the illusion that we are all different, and therefore have to compete against each other, is going to disappear, and that for example is what advertising is based on. [Maybe also consumerism (for its own sake) - and the belief that to survive and be loved we have to keep looking younger, better, having nicer houses, clothes, than others, etc.] And this is because our consciousness will change as we can intimately communicate with one another using this medium, with no middle men to package the message, and no fear of being attacked or rejected (personally) - so the herd instinct thing is really not in play. Therefore as I said, we learn for the first time on a mass level that we as individuals are not different from one another - that underneath we have the same feelings, needs, fears - that there is nothing to 'hide' that someone else doesn't or couldn't feel. Therefore the alienation which our present society is formed around - the 'differences' which all the money is made because of - will dissolve and that is how a new way of living may begin to evolve in our societies. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Jun 02, 1998 at 15:37:04 (EST)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs To: Judex Subject: To Scott - Thought - off topic Message: Dear Judex, I don't know if I think that advertising will become non existant, there is a ton of advertising on the Net. Maybe it will change and not be so 'in your face', time will tell. We are certainly becoming not just a global economy but globally connected which may be a good thing in the long run. We will be able to understand, and see as you said that we are not all that different. I did just want to mention that Scott may not see this or be on the forum, who am I to speak for him but I know his semminar is coming up in a couple of days. If you do see this Scott, good luck! Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Jun 02, 1998 at 00:34:17 (EST)
From: Ms. K Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Happy Birthday Robyn! Message: Since it's now past midnight on the east coast of the US, it's now officially Robyn's birthday! So, happy birthday, Robyn! Thanks for all the caring and work that you've put into the forum since you've been around. Hope you have a great day! Love from Ms. K Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Jun 02, 1998 at 02:33:02 (EST)
From: carol Email: None To: Ms. K Subject: Happy Birthday Robyn! Message: Me too, to you!Hope you can do something special to celebrate your years on earth! carol Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Jun 02, 1998 at 02:40:45 (EST)
From: charles Email: None To: Robyn Subject: Happy Birthday Robyn! Message: Oh yeah, HAPPY HAPPY BIRTHDAY. Hope your dreams are coming true. Charles Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Jun 02, 1998 at 02:52:01 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: charles Subject: Happy Bir..... Message: Laurie and I also want to wish you a happy birthday, Robyn. But.... we're not going to do it. Not until someone tells me what Maharaji said about the web site in Miami -- and anywhere else on the tour. You want another birthday greeting, Robyn? Then go out there and earn it! Come on, you know what to do. No quote, no cake. Nothing. You hear me? Nothing! (By the way, we're all set here, ready to sing you happy birthday and everything!! Oh yeah, you want that! But -- well you know. Get me the quote and you can have all the happy birthday you want.) :) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Jun 02, 1998 at 04:16:10 (EST)
From: Keith Email: None To: Robyn Subject: Happy Birthday Message: A very HAPPY BIRTHDAY ROBYN From Keith and Mirabai and without 'conditions' (SHAME ON YOU JIM.....making Robyn work on her birthday .... Have a good one!! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Jun 02, 1998 at 04:38:47 (EST)
From: Judex Email: None To: Keith Subject: Happy Birthday Message: Dear Robyn Happy Birthday, have a great time and enjoy yourself. Love, Judex. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Jun 02, 1998 at 09:55:21 (EST)
From: Gerry Email: None To: Robyn Subject: Gemini Birthday Greeting Message: From the two of us, to the two of you: Happy Birthday Robyn(s) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 04, 1998 at 14:53:26 (EST)
From: eb Email: None To: Jim Subject: Happy Bir..... Message: Dear Jim, I just spoke to my friend who saw M last week in Long Beach. She said he did not mention the forum, but he was in rare form and quite humorous. In response to my request for the exact quote from Miami, she said he said, 'As you know, some people are saying terrible things about me, and I don't care.' eb Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Jun 02, 1998 at 11:13:25 (EST)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Ms. K Subject: Happy Birthday Robyn! Message: Dear Ms. K and all, Thank you so much for you good wishes. It means so much to me. I love birthdays, mine and others. Thanks for being part of mine! A general apology to anyone whose name I tear up here I've not got that spelling thing down at all! Jim, Thanks to you and Laurie or almost! You are such a pip! I've already had the happy birthday song sung to me today mister! (Thanks Charles) I know where your heart is though. I am not very forceful, do you think, if you can't get the poop on BM (get it!) then how do you think I could! I am just a geographer getting lost on the highway of life you are the lawyer! Keith and Mariubi, Thanks for standing up for me. You are right I shouldn't have to work on my birthday but here I am anyway. Which is only made bearable today because I am communicating with all of you here and in email. Thanks Carol, I haven't gotten through my email and I got a call to pick up my glasses, which just reminded me to put them on. I feel like a kid at Christmas. I never wore glasses before and although I wish I didn't need to I was to the point where I really needed them so I am very pleased. Sorry for going off. Judex, thank you for your gretting also. I have not been here as much as I'd like but thanks to the powers that be I made it today! Gerry, I loved that, PERFECT, thanks! Love to all of you, Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Jun 02, 1998 at 11:34:28 (EST)
From: Richard Email: None To: Robyn Subject: Yeah! Me Too...Belated... Message: Happy Happy Birthday Robyn, Do It Yourself Customised BirthDay Greeting Just fill in the blanks.. Best wishes on your ...... Birthday May all your .......... be ............ And may you have ........... in abundance From now until .......... Have a seriously Happy Birthday Richard Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Jun 02, 1998 at 13:07:35 (EST)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Richard Subject: Yeah! Me Too...Belated... Message: Dear Richard, Not belated, it is today, here anyway I don't know what day you are on over there. I always got those time difference questions wrong on tests! I am 43 today and I don't know if you will know who this is but this morning I heard that Dana Carvey from Saturday Night Live is 43 today also. I liked that! Did you ever see my comedian message post? You probably never heard of him but Jerry Mathers, the Beav from Leave it to Beaver an old sitcom, is 50 today also. I was glad to hear I shared my birthday with Dana also as I loved the show Leave it to Beaver but was a bit let down to know we shared a birthday. He seems a bit dorky! Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Jun 02, 1998 at 18:09:49 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: Robyn Subject: Yeah! Me Too...Belated... Message: Happy Birthday, Robyn. Maybe you should reward yourself by going skinny dipping. Is it warm enough for that yet this year? Be sure to bring your dogs for protection! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Jun 02, 1998 at 19:14:10 (EST)
From: VP Email: None To: Ms. K Subject: Happy Birthday Robyn! Message: HAPPY BIRTHDAY TO YOU!!! Love from Violet and I. I hope that your day was wonderful and that you have many many more to come. VP :-) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Jun 02, 1998 at 23:54:56 (EST)
From: eb Email: None To: Robin Subject: Happy Birthday Robyn! Message: Dear Robyn, Just want you to know how much I enjoy our internet friendship. Your insights and wit are truly appreciated, and I hope your birthday was lots of fun. Love, eb P.S. I think my email is working again. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 03, 1998 at 08:40:49 (EST)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs To: eb Subject: Happy Birthday Robyn! Message: Dear JW, VP, and eb, Thank you all for you wishes, I did have a wonderful day. I didn't want to be at my day job but as it turned out I had many people contact me here on the site, email and the phone so it felt really good to be at work!!! I went out with friends after work but got home early, driving through yet another horrendous storm with tornadoe warnings in my township!!! JW, must be I've told you I sun bath naked? I tell you, with all the people I write to in email I can't remember who I told what but yes I have been to the creek this year but the water is still to cold for me although I have seen people swimming when I drive out past the main swimming hole. Love you all, Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Jun 01, 1998 at 23:05:34 (EST)
From: Keith Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Mysteries. Message: It occured to me (as a visceral memory)overnight that there have been so many experiences in my life that defy easy explanation.....or rational analysis. I have recorded many of them in essays that I've written over the years. It is so easy to dismiss such experiences as insignificant. I feel that they are very significant. It is also easy to ascribe meanings to bizarre and/or unusual experiences that are convenient to the individals need to understand...but do not represent factual explanations. It seems the human imagination is quite adept in creating 'meaning' when in truth there is no ultimate meaning accessable. We do not like to confront a mystery and accept it as unsolvable. We try to solve , resolve and understand everything. Not that I'm claiming that any so-called mystery is unsolvable or un-explanable, but mysteries can indeed be beyond our present capacity to understand and perhaps it sometimes takes a certain humility and intellectual honesty to admit that we simply don't understand something. I am tempted to give personal examples of such mysteries , but will hold back until I feel more inspired to do so. What I will say is that experiences (mysteries)I've had in the past that I imagined that I had partly understood , now I realise that I didn't. I know what seemed to happen.....but I don't really understand what it meant. Never-the-less, such mysteries leave the imprint that something very significant happened that in some way or another was a 'movement ' of growth. Perhaps we could (those who are interested ) share mysterious experiences with each other . Keith Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Jun 02, 1998 at 13:16:42 (EST)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Keith Subject: Mysteries. Message: Dear Keith, I started a similar thread a long time ago and got no or little response but I am VERY into unexplainable experiences that have happened to me and some of mine are posted and now in the archives. I know David of Cheddar shares a similar interest and experience. For me it is those experiences that keep me going, understanding that we are so much more than this superficial life. I am not very focused today but I would love to get into this subject as deeply as you or others would like. It is my life's blood! Also while I'm here talking to you, I'd like to send along a message to Maribiu (sorry if I don't have the spelling correct). I wanted to respond to a post of hers one day recently and didn't get to and I never really responded to her when she was here with all those computer problems because I couldn't help her with them. I just wanted to give her a personal hello and welcome from me and I am glad she is posting here once and a while, maybe more, I've only been here once and a while lately myself. Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 03, 1998 at 13:41:09 (EST)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Keith Subject: Mysteries. Message: Dear Keith, See what I said, Keith. I, personally don't understand it. I wouldn't expect Jim to participate here but it suprizes me that there is so little interest in these types of experiences. Maybe most people don't have them and we should be thankful that we do. I know I am. It is these experiences that keep me going or call me back when I am adrift. I know of two I posted that are in the archives but I am trying to think of another. In addition to these unexplainable experiences I also view complex coincedence, powerful dreams and signs in nature in a similar light. I think that my going into a trance as a child to escape a bad situation at home may have been were I developed the sensitivity to this fifth 'sense'. I didn't see it as a trance then, of course, but that is how I see it in retrospect. It is even comical now to think of how I did it. I would lock myself in the bathroom and star at the roll of toliet paper until a fuzzy feeling took over me and I felt like I was in another world. I even have faint memories of the people I met there. I don't want to just do this in a flippent way and no particular story is coming to mind and I am off to tan right now, a somewhat less important task, I know but it is an appointment and it is paid for ! I'll get back to this though. Hope you can bear with me. I also wonder if Mariubia, (sp?) has these types of experiences, once I had the thought that not everyone has them. Thank you Kieth, Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 03, 1998 at 23:29:59 (EST)
From: Keith Email: None To: Robyn Subject: Mysteries. Message: Thankyou for the posts, Robyn, I appreciate them. 'Maybe most people don't have them and we should be thankful that we do. ' Maybe. Or perhaps we would need to share some details and then invite a response. But if you already did that in the past and few responded then ....hhmm!! '. I also wonder if Mariubia, (sp?) has these types of experiences, once I had the thought that not everyone has them.' Mirabai (check that spelling) and I both have these type of experiences and our first weeks together(1984) were a type of mutual adventure through the twilight zone. One example; I was alone at home. Mirabai had left the previous evening while I was on the phone. She'd left me a note informing me she'd be back the next day. We had been together for one amazing week. I didn't know where she'd gone and was worried, but as there was nothing I could do I went to bed and went to sleep. At about 6.00am I suddenly awoke with words ringing loudly in my ears...'Keith, come quickly ...I need you'. There was no-one about but Mirabai's voice had been so clear that I immediately began dressing. Halfway through dressing the phone rang and Mirabai said, 'Keith, come quickly ...I need you'. This time I was able to find out where she was . I had heard a voice for years calling my name , usually 'KEITH, HELP' . I never knew who that voice belonged to until that day. All the best to you Robyn......and a big hug from US. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 03, 1998 at 23:57:18 (EST)
From: Keith Email: None To: Robyn and everyone Subject: About mysteries Message: Robyn, On a more general note ....all my life ...as far back as I can remember the experiences that have been the most informative and blissful(sometimes) have been mysterious in part. Meaning that they were beyond the norm. It is this supracharged level of perception , feeling, understanding, power, grace, insight, (fear....but fear that you grow with) and whatever else ...that indeed makes life more than okay.....more than survival....more than intellectually rational....more than standardised...more than politically correct..... comprehendo? And by the way ....to better understand 'krishnamurti's' quote one should realise that he encouraged energetic use of the mind.....quotes can be so mis-leading as they are only presenting one isolated aspect.....I should quote krishnamurti again later to try and balance things a little. But the quote I posted was ,for me, expressing 'a truth' , not the truth, and 'a truth' exists together with so many others . I wont go on....I have a lot to attend to right now. Keith Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 04, 1998 at 10:59:04 (EST)
From: Katie Email: None To: Robyn and Keith Subject: Mysteries. Message: Dear Robyn and Keith - I have had a few mysterious experiences of the type that you describe here, but I prefer not to discuss them on the forum because they were intensely personal, and didn't have anything to do with Maharaji. I think that bftb said the same thing about his experiences. Maybe some of the other people here feel the same way we do. I know that both of you can understand that. I have no problem with y'all discussing mysteries on the forum, though! P.S. to Robyn: Mirabai is the name of a famous Indian saint (not exactly sure what to call her, really). It's easier to remember the spelling if you think of it as two words: Mira Bai - remember how M's female mahatmas were called Bai's? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 04, 1998 at 11:58:19 (EST)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs To: Katie Subject: Mysteries. Message: Dear Katie, Thanks for the explination of Marabai's name I am getting it! Also I just emailed you and mentioned something about the Mysteries thread, I hadn't remembered that you said that the experiences were very personal, I do understand. You know me well enough, I think to know that wouldn't cause me a moment's hesitation though! Love you, Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 04, 1998 at 13:44:28 (EST)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs To: Keith Subject: Mysteries. Message: Dear Keith, As I try to think of an experience I've had that I haven't posted I can't but I think I'll go back through the archives as I told someone else I'd find something on there for them also. This is in no way as powerful as your experience with Marabai but it reminded me that almost every night when I go to bed, I feel, maybe a cat, getting on the foot of the bed. It has been happening for as long as I can remember. Even though I know nothing is physically there, I sometimes can't stop myself from turning the light on or feeling the place. I hope to someday understand it but for now it just continues. I will tell you one short experience, just so you don't think I'm pulling your leg, Ha! I have posted this before but it is short. I think of 'god' as a life force that is in every living thing. I picture it, if I am asking for help, as a kind of jet stream, the high winds that move weather. I was driving when I had a vision of this jet stream of energy, it was a mixture of blue and pink, in the sky. There was an angel with wings and long dress and her back was to the ground, her back arched, hands and head thrown back and legs relaxed. It seemed the only thing keeping her afloat was this connection of that energy (a little off shoot of the jet stream) to her heart. This was all seen in my minds eye. The other most facinating thing about this was that, and it was such a shame I was driving in traffic and couldn't pull over, but I had to really fight my body to not take the angles posture. I did it as much as I could and keep driving but it was physically very hard to resist. More later. Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 04, 1998 at 23:10:58 (EST)
From: Mirabai Email: None To: Robyn Subject: Mysteries. Message: Hi Robin! feel free to call me Mira if you like, although neither are my real name. I am a gemini as well, my birthday was about a week before yours! In regard to mysteries,or unusual experiences, I remember as a young child feeling the feelings of those around me in a particularly strong way and knowing exactly what they were thinking. There was also a tremendously wonderful feeling that I cannot describe. I recall regularly sleep walking to a nearby playground and sitting or laying down on some of the equipment and loved to look up at the stars but my eyes were closed.(until the door was more securely locked to prevent me by one of my parents). Sleeping outdoors was just something I had such a strong feeling to do. There was a feeling of great space and a deeply peaceful feeling. I've always sought to go back to that simple state of being. In my understanding we all long to go back to a simple child like experience and innocence that we could claim if we, in a way emptied ourselves of the many layers of thoughts that we have accumulated.Anyway that's about all for now, take care, Sincerely Mirabai Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 04, 1998 at 23:25:51 (EST)
From: Mirabai Email: None To: Robyn Subject: Mysteries. Message: Hi Robyn, I've just re-read my post and realized that I've misspelt your name, just an ironic mistake! regards Mirabai. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jun 05, 1998 at 13:16:27 (EST)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Mirabai Subject: Mysteries. Message: Dear Mirabai, I think you are from Australia but definitely not from the US so I don't know if you've ever heard of this saying which is usually just the first part because everyone knows the rest but I write it all out for you here. God I just can't say anything short and to the point! Paybacks are a bitch! That was in reference to your misspelling my name not that you have to watch out for my payback for god sake! Take good care Mirabai, Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jun 05, 1998 at 12:31:44 (EST)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Mirabai Subject: Mysteries. Message: Dear Mirabai, I will try to use this name as I love it's sense. I LOVE that your birthday is so close to mine and Gerry's! When I was a premie there were more than 10 of us with our birthdays almost in a row and one year we had a big bash. We are such a nice group aren't we, us geminis. I would love to know the exact date if you wouldn't mind telling me. I understand if you don't but as I posted I am keeping tract and have a history as the birthday woman. Thanks for sharing that story and I apologize now for deviating from the path here but so much I am working on now has nothing to do with BM. When I read your statement that you and most want to go back to that childlike simplicity and innocence, I can't relate not having a simple or innocent childhood. Maybe a lot of what I do, working on myself, is because of not having that basis to have grown from. I am not saying that there is no hope for me, not at all and I am not feeling sorry for myself here. I think my life is what has brought me to the person I am today and although I have lots of work still to do I feel very good about myself. Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jun 05, 1998 at 20:28:09 (EST)
From: Judex Email: None To: Robyn Subject: Mysteries. Message: Dear Robyn Yeah I think I mentioned 'the green fields of my childhood' once. I have to say, I was at boarding school in England, and the fields were indeed green. However I think I was totally spaced out, and not in this world at all. My best friend was a princess from Bhutan, her family had been kicked out by the communists, or 'red' Chinese, that's what everyone said. She told me stories about how they had a snake-house and lots of magic stuff at the palace. My teacher had a horse called 'Shadow fax' which I think comes from Lord of the Rings. I was a total space cadet. So my memories are nothing more than an illusion, to soften the reality of having been left. I also have memories of going on walks on Sundays in brown shoes and too- tight velvet dress (the weekend uniform) and meditating about the father, the son and the holy ghost. When I heard about the knowledge triangle I thought that must be the same thing, just different words. It seemed magical. In boarding school my Bhutanese friend told me when she was sick once her dad opened a statue they had of Buddha, and found a pill inside which cured her. Somehow I saw Buddha as being a saviour. When I first saw M, I thought he looked like the Buddha. The triggers are so strange. So that's where I get my Pollyanna stuff from, anyway. I hope I grow up even more, my whole life's waiting for me to get real. Lots of love to all 'damaged' children, may our adult selves be healed. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Jun 01, 1998 at 18:36:44 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Premie Experiment Message: The 'EX FLEX' Here's an exercise premies can do right at home. Take off your shoes and put on some light clothing, preferably something dark. Turn off the phone cause you're going to want a few moments of uninterrupted quality time. Take out a picture of Maharaji and hold it at arm's length. First, though, sit yourself down. Like I say, you're going to want a few moments. Okay, you're sitting and looking at this picture. Now, pretemd that you're an ex-premie. Pretend that you've actually given yourself the licence to think freely about Maharaji and that, finally, you hold him in no lofty esteem. (Remember, this is only for a few minutes. It's an experiment, for god's sake!) Now, looking unwaveringly at the picture, tell him how you, 'an ex-premie', feel. Tell him how it feels to know that he has stonewalled any of his followers who want to ask him anything. Ask him questions. Wait a few minutes, see if he answers. See if he even wipes that smile off his face that no good -- oh sorry, I want this to be YOU experience. Okay, after you're done, put the picture down and relax. Write down your thoughts before you lose them. There's another exercise that involves a Maharaji video that we'll get into next week. Stay tuned. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Jun 02, 1998 at 07:51:44 (EST)
From: Bruce Email: phoenix@b024.aone.net au To: Jim Subject: questions from the soapbox Message: Jim, So this is how you've managed to maintain your lunatic stance over the years that M. hasn't answered your questions.! You've been asking a photo.!!!! Try making the effort to go somewhere M. is. Try asking him directly. Despite what you tediously keep claiming to the contrary, M. DOES make himself available for questions of any nature. I've been there personally many times when this has happened. Forget the letter idea. Too easy. You've got to make a bit more effort. Big effort results in big answers. Also there are a lot of videotaped question and answer sessions from the past in which he addressed the questions you bleat about over and over. Try watching one or two. M. has a lot more important things to do than repeatedly answer the same questions over and over to people like you who clearly are incapable or unwilling to hear them. I could show you how you have repeatedly asked questions of me and other premies here on this forum, have been offerred several answers, and then, as the thread goes into the inactive list or achives, you pop up again with the same question bemoaning that NOBODY WILL ANSWER IT. Of course acknowledging answers is something you can't do, is it Jim. Then you wouldn't be able to stand on your little soapbox, being the big fish in a VERY small pond, which clearly is your real motive for setting up this site. As I've said before, I and many more people than post here were around since the early 70's and we have managed to enjoy K. then and now, and have had our questions answered then and now. We don't feel that M.should do any more than he has already done in addressing the past, and doesn't owe anyone an apology. If this was a democracy, you'd be outvoted by a wide margin. To suggest that premies are never critical of M .is absurd. The mind, the ego whatever you want to call it, will always find things to question. That's its job. We all have that. Premie , expremie, nonpremie alike. The difference is that practising premies still connect to an experience to counteract the mind and its oh so logical reasonings, questions, cynicisms,that insist on keeping us in boring normality, conceptualising or denying anything greater. Its not being mindless. Its seeing the limitations of mind and going beyond it. You'll see I haven't answered your Bruce flounders question, because I'd already answered it. Twice I think. You read my posts but you didn't see the answers. Any questions, Jim? Bruce Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Jun 02, 1998 at 12:10:01 (EST)
From: Richard Email: None To: Bruce Subject: Just a sec.... Message: Dear Bruce, I have been around quite a few Q & A sessions with Maharaji, especially in the late 70's early 80's when they were quite fashionable. This was because Maharaji was pushing for a wider audience and was 'suiting-up' for the media. The answers to various questioner 'types' can be categorised as follows; 1) From newcomers: brief, full of analogies and moving swiftly on to the point he was planning to make anyway. 2) From committed premies: brief, full of analogies and etc.. 3) From actively negative premies/non-premies: none that I can recall because I or my colleagues would would have had them out of the hall so fast you could have blinked and missed it. We always got a massive bollocking for allowing Maharaji to be exposed in this way. I did service at several Q & A's, I specifically remember Birmingham (UK), and the audience was strictly ticket only. To obtain a ticket you had to a)have a new person to bring, b)not be on that list. Tickets were available only from community coordinators who liased with local/national security to vet applications. Local train stations were patrolled from a couple of days before the event to catch would be trouble-makers and anyone known to have passed an allocated ticket to a trouble-maker would thereafter be blacklisted. Even though it is embarrassing to say so, I had the service of visiting some of the trouble-makers, at their homes, on a regular basis in order to ascertain the relative risk and to gather intelligence on likely movements. No Bruce, I don't expect that you did know but then again, you weren't supposed to. After the pie incident Maharaji was exposed to very little risk and the idea that he freely engaged in discussion with people who had not been thoroughly vetted is, frankly, laughable. To take what you see of Maharaji and his entourage at face value is naive. Regards Richard Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Jun 02, 1998 at 13:34:48 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Richard Subject: Bruce, your credibility Message: is completely on the line here. Either Richard is one bald-faced liar -- and never did any of the sepcific things he describes in his post here -- or you're just blowing air. There are no videos such as you've described are there, Bruce? Maybe Maharaji should tear a page from the book of charles and enjoy the challenge of communication with someone other than weak-knee'd sycophants huh? Thanks so much for this post, Richard? Is there anything you can add to any of it? Did you ever hear directly -- or even indirectly -- from Maharaji about this 'service'? Have any good stories as a result? Meet with much resistance? Are there bodies? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 03, 1998 at 12:27:00 (EST)
From: Richard Email: None To: Jim, Bruce & DOC Subject: Where are the bodies? Message: Sure there are Jim, mostly walking around bent over with guilt trips. People need to tell their stories, and I am kind of building up to mine, but it takes a little time and a little care and a smidgeon of discrimination. I believe that a great deal of damage was done to people during the great spiritual Gold Rush of the 70's. The damage was done to us ALL. Damage inflicted on other people and damage inflicted on ourselves by suspending our judgement as to how we should behave towards others. Unpicking the Gordian knot requires, I think, that we take some responsibility for our actions while seeing the greater context (Guruworld) within which these actions took place. Examining the phenomenon of 'bongo premies' may be a good place to start since it is a fairly common currency. Bruce, DOC and others may well be able to state truthfully that, in their experience, Maharaji never refused to answer an awkward question but they CANNOT deny that DLM, EV et al had an active and not particularly secret policy to prevent the awkward questions being asked. They may only claim to have not seen how that was achieved. But then again they may have chosen not to see. On the other hand there were many premies who did see and were distinctly uncomfortable about it. The whole subject of what we needed to do to protect Maharaji and how we went about it produced huge feelings of ambiguity among community premies. Many understood that the WPC and its off-shoots had the service of doing for The Family and The Premies what they could not be seen to do for themselves. We were acutely and uncomfortably aware of the scapegoat syndrome. The period of the official disbanding of the WPC was a painful and confusing time for premies. It was an exact mirror of many similar events which have occurred within post-revolutionary governments throughout history. Bruce and DOC were there, they knew but chose not to see. Only taking orders? On another tack Jim, I have missed out on what happened to Raja and Claudia. Can anyone enlighten me? Regards Richard Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 03, 1998 at 10:46:33 (EST)
From: Bruce Email: None To: Richard Subject: Maharaji answers Message: Dear Richard, Perhaps you are speaking from experience , and so am I. A few points. You didn't say you actually removed any actively negative people from the hall. Why not? Did your instructions to behave in the way you are now embarrassed about come specifically from M. or was it in fact from some gung- ho and overly paranoid security chief? Didn't you think you were doing the right thing at the time, and if not why did you do these things? I'm willing to bet the heaviness was not coming from M. even if the request to minimise disturbance was. In contrast to your story, I have been at several meetings at Amaroo in Australia, the ashram in India, Tierra del Amour in South America and in West Africa in which there was no vetting of either people or questions to M. In Australia, a lot of people have got to meet him personally,and been able to discuss anything they have wanted to. For your information, I have on many occasions been responsible for M's personal security and safety in recent years, and I am personally familiar with his entourage. No hidden dark secrets .What you see is what you get. Regards Bruce Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 03, 1998 at 12:59:01 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: Bruce Subject: Maharaji answers Message: You didn't say you actually removed any actively negative people from the hall. Why not? I can't speak for Richard, but people were removed from programs on a regular basis up until the early 80s at least, and I personally witnessed this. The same security people were used program after program, and functioned to remove anyone who might pose a disturbance. This was during and after the WPC period. Even before being removed, such 'bongo premies' were followed and their every move monitored. In Australia, a lot of people have got to meet him personally,and been able to discuss anything they have wanted to. I have no idea what 'a lot of people' refers to, but I would assume that these people were carefully screened prior to such personal meetings, such that they were unlikely to discuss anything BM didn't want to discuss. You also don't mention WHAT was discussed. Such discussions were apparently uneventful. Perhaps things have changed, although I doubt it. During my 10 years as a premie BM NEVER did question and answer sessions, except for a few prior to and during Millennium. And in those cases, he came accross so badly and obviously arrogant and evasive, that he never did it again. [For example, see the 'press conference' in the Lord of the Universe video.] Like I said, after that he never answered questions, of premies or anyone else, certainly not in any kind of open forum. I have heard that he 'answers questions' of people about to receive knowledge, but I have also heard that these questions are written down in advance, and BM only answers the ones he wants to. I would also suggest that people who want to receive knowledge are by and large not about to utter a discouraging word or question. As I learned myself when I wanted to receive knowledge, I had to appear that all my questions had been answered. I wasn't about to ask BM why he lived such an outrageously lavish lifestyle, why he used to call himself the lord of the universe, or whether he has a drinking problem. As I have stated before, I lived in BM's ashram for 10 years and never once had an opportunity to even speak to BM, let alone ask a question. My letters to him, a couple sent by registered mail, which asked a bunch of pertinent, very heart-felt questions, have been ignored by him. I know several other ex-premies who can say the same thing. By the way, those meetings you attended with BM. Does one of those include the 'financial meeting' in which BM displayed graphs about his expenses, red and green bar graphs showing, obviously, shortfalls in revenues when compared to expenditures, but omitted using any dollar amounts whatsoever? Such open disclosure and trust of the people who are providing most of the money! He seems to handle financial disclosure the same way he handles dealing with anyone who even suggests he or she might criticize him. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 03, 1998 at 19:32:03 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: JW Subject: One Correction Message: On second thought, I do recall that in late 1983, I attended an introductory program in Miami and after BM spoke, he DID open the floor up for questions. Premies were specifically instructed NOT to ask questions, only 'new people' were allowed to do so. I had officially stopped being a premie at that point and it was interesting to watch the program from that vantage point. He took about 3 or 4 questions. I recall that I was astonished at how condescending and dismissive BM was of these 'new people' who were sincerely asking him questions. If you recall, 1983 was at the height of the 'nuclear freeze' movement, at least in the States. Reagan was saber-rattling the Russians and they were rattling back. It was very tense. The night before this program, a made-for-TV movie was aired called 'The Day After' about a town in Kansas after a nuclear exchange, which was very controversial. Anyhow, a woman in the audience asked about working for world peace and the elimination of nuclear weapons through the nuclear freeze movement. BM told her it was a total waste of time. She kind of argued with him, saying that she thought it was important. BM just responded, dismissively and with some derision, that all that working for peace was worthless. He didn't even say that 'knowledge' was more important or anything like that, he just put her down. Any questions he didn't want to answer, he didn't. He seemed very put out at even having to take questions. Maybe he was having a bad day. It was all the rumor in Miami at the time, that during this period, he was having a lot of problems with his marriage, he had just closed the ashrams, and premies like me were dumping him in large numbers. Maybe that had something to do with it. I went to the program with two friends who were still tacitly premies, but who split right after that program. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 04, 1998 at 07:33:13 (EST)
From: Richard Email: None To: JW Subject: Maharaji answers Message: Thanks JW, I was beginning to fear that it was all the result of some bad acid. Richard Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 04, 1998 at 23:47:51 (EST)
From: Mirabai Email: None To: JW Subject: Maharaji answers Message: To JW I've come to the conclusion at this time that I am not able to make an ultumate type of decision about who Maharaji is,nor am I willing to be his ultimate judge. But I know that I just don't like the way that Ms world is operating at present. I personally have never heard a question and answer session and I've been involved for 13 years. There are too may people who have their own unique way of saying things to limit the situation to just Maharaji. I will not deny that M has had a positive effect on my life, but I'm just looking at things differently now. I tend to be cautious about making ultimate statements about other individuals because I feel that I risk becoming the very thing that I am critizising and become dogmatic and opinionated myself. But as I've probably stated in much earlier posts I certainly don't mind taking a critical look at M or anyone else in a position of authority. I love open communication and the sharing that can take place between those that have something real to say, and I just don't like the way premies seem to pour so much energy in such limited forms of self expression. The focus on just M is somewhat boring. There is something really dynamic and alive about open communica- tion. One doesn't feel this feeling around premies. They make sure that the words that pass their lips is in agreement with M first. And that is not being truly free in the way that I thought M stood for. regards Mirabai Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 04, 1998 at 07:23:06 (EST)
From: Richard Email: None To: Bruce Subject: Maharaji answers..or not Message: Dear Bruce, Sorry I did not reply to your post earlier, I sometimes find these threads a little hard to keep trace of. Anyway to answer your questions as directly as is possible; You didn't say you actually removed any actively negative people from the hall. Why not? Yes Bruce, I actually removed many actively negative people from the audience, OK? Glad we cleared that up. Did your instructions to behave in the way you are now embarrassed about come specifically from M. or was it in fact from some gung-ho and overly paranoid security chief? Don't be pathetic Bruce. Did you receive personal agya before going jumbling door to door and would it have made you less of a pain in the arse (English for Ass) to the householder if you had? Listen, here's how it worked. There were regional, national and world-wide 'bongo lists' giving personal details, descriptions and, where possible, photographs of the individuals concerned. Many of these people spent a great deal of time hanging around the various 'residences' and were well known to Maharaji. There was a spectrum of instructions for dealing with such people depending on the assessed risk. These ranged from 'give them a chance to behave' up to 'close community monitoring and absolute exclusion'. Strangely enough, the security personnel who had to deal with these people got quite close and there was a kind of mutual respect between combatants. This contrasts greatly with the fear and loathing which they received from DLM honchos. So no, I never did get personal instruction from Maharaji to behave in a specific way to specific people. You could try talking to some of the head guys who were around at the time, you know who they were, but I guess that, unless they are currently practising premies, you won't believe them either. Didn't you think you were doing the right thing at the time, and if not why did you do these things? So now we come to the main feature, yes? This answer also incorporates your previous reference to embarrassment which, by the way, should be termed shame. I am only too well aware of the paucity of a 'I was only following orders' defence here and I shall not offer it. I will probably spend the rest of my life feeling shame for failing to use more discrimination in my devotion and service to Maharaji and that memory will haunt me. Yes I did think that I was doing the right thing at the time. I was absolutely and totally convinced that I was taking part in the lila and that my personal service was to protect the body of the Perfect Master so that he could continue to spread enlightenment to the world. A worthy cause indeed. Hanuman would have done no less. But I was wrong and the consequences of my actions against confused, sick or politically incorrect people are immeasurable. As are the consequences of stating that you are Satguru, the Perfect Master of your time, as are asking people to hand over the reigns of your life, as are allowing people to believe (and failing repeatedly to deny) that you are GOD incarnate on this planet. If Maharaji had been honest and had told people that all he had to offer were a few second hand meditation techniques bundled up with some vague Hindu philosophy, all this would probably never have happened. But he didn't and it did. I am prepared to take my share of the blame, I would like Maharaji to be honest and take his and maybe stop the next wave of maniac devotees in the process. And you too Bruce. Use some of that judgement which you imply that I lacked all those years ago and look around you. Tell me the truth Bruce. Is Maharaji the Perfect Master?, in which case all the things that I did in his name were cool, right? Or is he something less than Perfect, in which case we were all conned, you included. Now say after me, I hereby testify that... Regards Richard Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 04, 1998 at 13:31:19 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: Richard Subject: Maharaji answers..or not Message: Richard, Excellent post. I, too, feel some guilt about some of the things I did to others in the name of the lord of the universe. I still shudder when I think about some of them. I've also got to say, that maybe the British have bad teeth, and maybe they have to live with the prospect of a 'Dianaworld' theme park, but you, Nigel, Anon, Sir David and others, certainly add clarity and eloquence to the forum. Just kidding about the bad teeth. It's a common prejudice Americans have of the Brits. JW Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 04, 1998 at 13:49:14 (EST)
From: Katie Email: None To: Richard Subject: Shame and responsibility Message: Dear Richard, I agree with JW - both your posts on shame and taking responsibility were great. I even copied them into Word so I could think about them (and possibly even write a thread about shame and responsibility later). I didn't do anything that I am very ashamed while I was a premie (I was very young and not in a position of any power, thank god), but I have certainly done some things that I am horribly ashamed of since then. It was very hard for me to take personal responsibility for doing these things, but I finally did. I still feel bad about them, but I have more self-respect, PLUS I know now I won't do things like that again. I really respect you for taking your share of the responsibility for what you did - it's hard, but in a way it's easier too. It very much bothers me that Maharaji refuses to take any responsibility for things that he's done, or things that were done in his name. You are right that we all need to take personal responsibility, but that includes him, as well. Maybe that is why he still seems so immature. Take care, Richard Regards from Katie P.S. I am from the US and I have HORRIBLE teeth. The last time I went to a new dentist he looked in my mouth and said 'Boy, I can tell this isn't your first trip to a dentist!'. My sister's are even worse, and my husband's are nothing to write home about either. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jun 05, 1998 at 11:37:57 (EST)
From: Joy Email: None To: JW Subject: Maharaji answers..or not Message: Joe, I also have to admit that the Brits really jazz up the Forum. They are a most articulate lot. As you know, I received K. in London circa 1972, and it was largely thru the inspiration of guys like Milky Cole and Glen Whittaker who carried on nightly at satsang, they were both very inspiring speakers. Wonder whatever happened to Milky? I know someone who knows Glen and says he's still into BM, but haven't heard a word about Milky. Any of you English guys know? (And where are the articulate and inspiring English SISTERs anyhow??) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jun 05, 1998 at 12:00:54 (EST)
From: Richard Email: None To: Joy Subject: Milky... Message: Hi Joy, sorry to butt in. I last saw Milky in about '83/'84. We worked together for a while in a quasi premie direct sales thing. He was still the same old Milky, full of charm, surfing the vibe y'know. Havn't seen him since but then I havn't exactly gone out of my way. As for British premie girls...well if any of you are out there, how about starting www.ex-flowergirls.org. Regards Richard Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 04, 1998 at 15:47:42 (EST)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs To: Richard Subject: Maharaji answers..or not Message: Dear Richard, OK, first things first, when is your birthday, eh? As I think I've mentioned before I use to work at a zoo and was in charge of, among other things, all scheduled birthday parties, so we will all gather at the castel tower later for Gerry and Good Humor ice cream bars, cake, juice and a nice plastic zoo animal! I also want to chime in and agree with JW and Katie about your above post. This is unrelated to BM but along the same vein. Growing up in an abusive home can screw you up pretty good but I have believed for many years, long before I left my parents house, that at some point in your life no matter what you have indured it becomes your own responsibility to take responsibility for yourself and your actions. I have taken most of my life trying to correct things that were screwed up about myself and coming to terms with not blaming others but seeing it all as helping me to learn the lessons I am here to learn this time around! Sorry Jim. Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jun 05, 1998 at 06:26:46 (EST)
From: Richard Email: None To: Robyn, JW & Katie Subject: Off Topic - Englishness Message: Dear All, You know that we English premies had a fifth technique which was not revealed to the rest of you because you were not 'hard' enough to cope with it. This basically involved placing the thumb of the right hand firmly up inside the rectum (to prevent anything escaping) while waving gaily with the left hand to convey the message 'Don't worry, I'm fine'. This may indeed be the cause of bad teeth but it got us through two world wars. I remember at the Millenium program that an American premie girl spotted that I was suffering from a very stiff neck and shoulders. Without so much as a formal introduction she seized hold of me and began to massage the sore spots. I tried to explain that I was not ready for marriage and that I hadn't taken any precautions but she just ignored my protests and carried on ravaging my person. I guess that's what you get for allowing colonies to drift away. Seriously though Robyn, much as I like you an' all I've already told you my real name and have even given out my email address, all in the space of a few weeks. And now you want to know my birth date? Just where is this roller-coaster ride going to lead. Hey! Hang on a minute...my thumb is starting to slip ..ooh!..aah!..ouch...there it goes, that's better. 09/07/51 Shocked, relieved and off to the dentist.. Richard Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jun 05, 1998 at 11:18:53 (EST)
From: Katie Email: None To: Richard Subject: Funniest post of the day Message: Hi Richard - I am still laughing. Your post was so funny that I made my husband come in and read it and he also thought it was great. Thanks! Katie Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jun 05, 1998 at 12:18:34 (EST)
From: Richard Email: None To: Katie Subject: Funny post? Message: Dear Katie, I know that you Yanks have a strange sense of humour but being British is really no laughing matter. Do you realise the centuries of inbreeding that we have to deal with? I doubt that even Maharaji could afford the therapist's bill. It's nice to make people laugh though Katie, don't you think? When you laugh some of the crap just flies right on out with the he haw. I'm off for the weekend now and I'm on a course next week so I may not be around for a few days. Take care and see you soon. Regards Richard Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jun 05, 1998 at 13:33:12 (EST)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs To: Katie Subject: Funniest post of the day Message: Dear Katie, I made the only guy at work who knows what I do all day look too! Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jun 05, 1998 at 13:31:28 (EST)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Richard Subject: Off Topic - Englishness Message: Dear Richard, God I love it here, it makes me think, reflect, expand and Laugh, laugh, laugh, and that is the BEST medicine! Now I have to tell you the words on the birthday card from my daughter: I can not find the common denominator in those I like but in those I love, I can...They make me LAUGH! I have right up with all my 'spiritual' and inspiring cards here at job 1 just because it is such an opressive place! Thanks for your birthday dear, I promise not to give you a message for your birthday! I think after a while I can get some refences from you guys and try to get back into the zoo! Can you imagine being in a premie house in the US, everyone was giving massages to everyone else, it was a major form of entertainment, no TV you know! I love it! Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jun 05, 1998 at 20:45:39 (EST)
From: Judex Email: None To: Robyn Subject: Posting Message: Ok Robyn I don't have much of a sense of humour (yet!) but here goes...I was walking my little doggie aound the block. I have such a cool, cute dog (he is making weird noises at me right now as he wants to go out) So we go around the block, and every now and then he stops at a special place, sniffs very ernestly, and then leaves his little pee. This happens only at the designated 'posts' eg a certain bush, or bin or patch of grass. Also, it has to be carefully sniffed first, to see whether it is worth a 'post'. You see the connection I started to make about my dog and me/us? haha! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Jun 02, 1998 at 13:13:28 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Bruce Subject: Where can I order, Bruce? Message: Also there are a lot of videotaped question and answer sessions from the past in which he addressed the questions you bleat about over and over. Try watching one or two. Bruce, You tell me where I can order the video where Maharaji explains how he used to call himself God but doesn't anymore. Or how about the one where he talks about why he used to say he was going to save the world 'soon, soon, soon' and doesn't anymore. Where's the one where he explains the difference between himself and the other Guru Maharaj Ji in the family. I also wnat to see him explain how he thought his family was so 'realized'. You got that one? How about the one where he explains why he thought the ashram -- or at least an ashram ENVIRONMENT -- was essential to serious growth on the path of 'surrender' (remember him saying that the whole world was going to become an ashram? No? Is that because you weren't at that ashram satsang perhaps?) -- but when ahd how he changed his mind? Those'll dofor starters. Really, Bruce, if you know of a single video with anything like answers to these tell me and I'll order it. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Jun 02, 1998 at 14:23:56 (EST)
From: Gerry Email: None To: Bruce Subject: Bruce's Blues Message: Bruce, Why do you suppose you have this need for a master in your life? Don't you trust yourself, Bruce? How do you get yourself to believe that some one outside of yourself knows what's best for you? Isn't it time to take back the reins of your life ? And what could your respose possibly be to Richard's statements. Does this sound like the actions of a 'realized' person? Or even an average honest and open joe, willing to communicate on a person-to-person level with others? You know Bruce, you don't have to do this any more. You can just walk away. They can't hurt you. What do have to lose? There is no goal, there is no path and there is not state of enlightenment. There is only the here and now. Spiritual practices are worthless. You are in a cult and it's fucking you up. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 03, 1998 at 10:09:53 (EST)
From: Bruce Email: None To: Jim Subject: Where can I order, Bruce? Message: Jim, For starters try Maharaji Answers Questions. Los Angeles 1989. Then try getting off your bottom and getting over to Seattle. You could even stand up, put up your hand and ask your questions. I've seen it done. I've asked questions. Lots of people have. Or would that be too confronting for you, facing M. in real life? Bruce Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 03, 1998 at 13:38:31 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Bruce Subject: Where can I order, Bruce? Message: Bruce, Iwill order the video if you could please give me some advance notice of what it is I'm looking forward to. In particular, what questions does Maharaji answer that are anything like the questions posed here? What are his answers? I'm not asking for a transcript but, if you've got it, I'd like to know what makes this video even close to what I'm looking for. As for going to see him in person, well, if he were here in Victoria I'd certainly go. Travelling's a whole other ballgame, for one thing. I'm actually thinking of going down to Seattle and just might do that. But are you actually telling me that you have no doubt that a) I would be able to get into the hall (I'm not wearing no Groucho mask, not unless he does too!); b) I'd be able to interrupt him and ask him questions; c) I wouldn't get quickly escorted out of the hall; and d) he'd answer me? Are you actually saying that you're cetain about all this? 'Cause I'll tell you what. I'll check with others higher up in the organization than you for some confirmation. So, tell me now, Bruce, are you just bluffing or what? Can you guarantee, based on your past experience, that all of that would happen? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Jun 02, 1998 at 15:42:38 (EST)
From: Judex Email: None To: Jim Subject: questions from the soapbox Message: Dear Jim, I don't want you to feel alone in responding to this sort of post and I would love to leap into the fray but I have decided not to answer this sort of thing any more and just leave it alone. I know the Forum doesn't work by 'votes'. Just to let you know I would prefer to talk directly to you when necessary, and to others I want to talk to, and realise there is no need to enter into every 'debate' here. Regards to you and all- have a day where anger, fear and loathing doesn't bring you down!! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Jun 02, 1998 at 16:13:41 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Judex Subject: questions from the soapbox Message: Judex, You mean you're not going to do wahtever service is assigned to you? What's this world coming to, anyway? I apprecaite your sentiment but, you know, I'm hardly alone. Here's what often happens: premie x posts something really dumb, then I'll blast them off the cuff, carefully sprinkling just the right number of typo's to remind them that, after all, we're all human. Then someone, makybe VP or Katie, asks them for some clarification or soemthing. Then JW or now sometimes Richard or someone like that writes a really thoughtful post to the premie, carefully omitting any typo's just to show how serious we take all this. Then I'll post again in order to glom onto all the good points others have jsut made. Then Rick or Gerry will REALLY blast them. Joy might come in around then. If we're lucky we might hear from Nigel or Anon around then. If the thread continues long enough Scott will counter-attack with a highly sophisticated comment or so and Bill, let's not forget, will be in there all the way, here or there, gently pulling them into his particular soft but often poignant vision. This list is by no means exhaustive. Sometimes, the killer comment comes from someone previously unkown, like some of the stuff that Mark and frank have had to say recently. And charles, let's not forget him. Or Carol, a softening voice in all the fracas. The point is, everyone gets a kick at the can. Come or go as you plese, Judex. As Maharaji said, the door is always open. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Jun 02, 1998 at 16:29:52 (EST)
From: Gerry Email: None To: Jim Subject: questions from the soapbox Message: Jim, I gotta go, but I just wanted to say you got me laughing, rolling on the floor. Again. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 03, 1998 at 16:02:54 (EST)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs To: Jim Subject: questions from the soapbox Message: Dear Jim, I love it when you tickel me! Are you looking for a pen pal Jim, I think I've noticed you post your address a few times lately. Here you can send me a belated birthday card, no song or cake, see how nice it can work out! Robyn D'Anna RR2, Box 256 Ulster, PA 18850 experienced tornadoes in Ulster, PA 6/2/98! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 04, 1998 at 05:56:58 (EST)
From: Judex Email: None To: Jim Subject: questions from the soapbox Message: Come or go as you plese, Judex. As Maharaji said, the door is always open. Jim I just hate myself so much these days I don't know what to say. I don't really know what's happened. I found myself feeling very sorry for the way all the premies get treated who come here. To me it started to seem like a war between 'us' and 'them'. Previous to that I found myself getting extremely intolerant of the premies who were just smart-assing around. Am I the bitch you referred to in a recent post who you wanted to get rid of off the Forum? Maybe this is the guilt trip someone mentioned. I feel now that I needed a master because I lost my own identity. I wouldn't even know what to say in a Journeys post, for example. I feel totally gutless and without any authority to say anything. Every time a premie posts here I feel like there is no logical or true response possible, only feelings of 'right' or 'wrong' (subjective). Then when I read what other ex-premies with a lot of experience say, it all makes sense again. It's not a matter of wanting to come or go. However it does feel good to take a back seat and watch the show, and not have to feel allegiance to some sort of cause. Because then I lose myself (what little there is, it seems). I feel very insignificant at the moment. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 04, 1998 at 07:52:08 (EST)
From: Richard Email: None To: Judex Subject: questions from the floor... Message: Well I like your posts Judex. We all of us have different stuff to say at different times and the honesty of that situation is what, I believe, encourages people to post. Hell, I even had a nice post from Jim just after I started coming here. I think he was tired. But seriously Judex, your posts are a part of the spectrum. I know that if I say something dumb I risk a flaming from certain parties but I also know that you or Katie or Robyn will come back with soothing balms for my pain. On the other hand I have seen you flame someone who was maybe expecting 'gentle Judex'. Then I piss myself laughing. Keep it coming Judex. Richard Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 04, 1998 at 10:26:58 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Judex Subject: questions from the soapbox Message: Jim I just hate myself so much these days I don't know what to say. I don't really know what's happened. I found myself feeling very sorry for the way all the premies get treated who come here. To me it started to seem like a war between 'us' and 'them'. Judex, I'm not sure, do your third and fourth sentences explain your first? Are you saying that you hate yourself because of the way premies get treated here? Or is that simultaneous but unrelated? You shouldn't hate yourself, none of your 'new friends' here have anything but respect for you (I'm guessing, sure, but that's what you do on these helplines 'Don't do it, Larry, you know how your wife and children really love you!'). No, I'm joking about that. I DO know that, for what it's worth, most people here really appreciate you simply because they've all said it from time to time. Hey, doesn't that mean something? No you shouldn't think like that, not unless you've got a really good reason. Well? You got one? I doubt it. As for how the premies get treated here, Judex, I'm not sure what you're concerned about. Really. Take Annie, for instance. I think she's got to be one of the 'nicest' premie posters, huh? No insults for anybody (but me, and that mixed in with equal parts compliments, humour, nostalgia and, alright, a little sexual harrassment and defamation). But we blasted her! Now, let's look at that. Why'd it happen? Well, for one thing, people know what they're doing when they post here. Annie sure did; she'd been here a few times herself and knew exactly what to expect. We ex's are just premies who've allowed ourselves to think freely. That's the difference. We called Maharaji's bluff and have entertained doubt. So we keep up this level of doubt and scrutiny and everyone gets it. It's just the nature of the beast. If Maharaji's cult is a planet, this is the moon of doubt. So Annie comes here, like they all do, to expose their minds, their words, to doubt. It's like a mental carwash. You know? Here, think of this. Say all the ex's agreed that for wahtever reason they would abide by one general rule here, 'no aggressive confrontation of premies'. No matter how aggressive the premies might be, we'd decided for whatever purpose to not stoop to tht level. Premies posting the rudest insults would be simply met with stuff like 'ah friend, I can see that you're really working some things out and, in this case, are using me as a foil. That's okay, that's what I'm here for. I do not agree that Maharaji has already brought peace to the planet but,hey, it's all a matter of opinion, yes. Furthermore, let me remind you, as I do everytime we speak, that I fully respect your right to hold your opinion.' Premies posting here with pollyanna voices like Annie's would get the same. (You just can't get any sweeter!). Would that be a good thing? I really don't think so. For one thing, it completely masks the natural (and I tihnk healthy) aversion one's mind feels to nonsense. Having drifted so far from the premie cult mentality, our minds naturally bristle at these reminders of how conditioned we oursleves once were. That's natural and, I think, extremely healthy. You know, before Maharaji shut it down, there used to be an informal premie page. One or two people posted there thoughts along the lines of this: 'oh Maharaji, thank youfor taking me back. I was stuck in a bad marraige for the last twenty years and had lost focus. I'd stopped even thinking of myself as a premie. But then my company went bankrupt and my wife took off. Now I've started thinking of you again and have begun meditation. I realize it was you I always loved all along. Oh please, Lord, take me home!' That kind of thing. Well you know what? I don't think that could happen for anyone who's really allowed their minds to explore this cult 'backstage' as it were. We've unpacked so many unstated structures here, we're pretty well safe from that. But it doesn't mean we can't shuder at the reminder of from whence we came. The premies' posts are that reminder. We shudder. So, like I say, it wouldn't be honest for us. Now would it help the premies? I don't know. They come here not to make friends, they come to test their faith, to proselytize but really, what they really come for, I think, is a car wash. After all, they know that no one can criticize their cult like a former member. They, like we all did, want to be able to break free from the yoke of enslavement. I just have faith taht no one wants to follow a fake, pathetic freak phenomenon from the '70s. But they're stuck. Those are the ones that post here. I feel it would be doing them a great injustice if we patronized them with false respect. They post garbage knowing that we'll try to hose them down. Hee's the proof. Notice how none of them are able to either sustain a dialogue for any real length of time? Notice how none of them really adhere to rationality with any consistency? They're not posting here in sincere communication. They're just looking for exactly what they get here. That's my feeling anyway. Now, even if that wasn't what they 'wanted', I'd still say a) it's what they deserve; b) it's what they expect; and c) it's in their interest. So, that's what I think anyway. And no, the bitch wasn't you. There is no bitch. I'm not sure what you're talking about. What browswer are YOU using? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 04, 1998 at 11:13:12 (EST)
From: Katie Email: None To: Judex Subject: To Jude (from the bitch!) Message: Hello Judex - Just so you know, I am the bitch. Jim is always teasing me, if you haven't noticed. I have a book called 'Getting in Touch with Your Inner Bitch', which is great - I highly recommend it to counteract all the 'bitch' trips laid on us females. I am sorry that you are feeling so bad about yourself. I think it's a rough roller coaster ride the first year after you leave M. I often forget that because it's been so long for me, but I keep getting reminded by the recent exes who post here. Of course, life itself is a pretty rough roller coaster ride, even without M, so your feelings of self-doubt sound very familiar to me! I have felt sorry for some of the premies who posted here too, and I agree that sometimes it seems like a war between 'us' and 'them'. It doesn't have to be that way, although some people on both 'sides' do enjoy that type of interaction (I didn't understand that when I first posted here.) You really don't have to take any side except your own: Judex's side. My response to premies (when I choose to respond, which is not often) is simply to relate my own experience. I recommend this highly - you are right that it is subjective, but it IS true, for me. I like reading your posts because you have a very unique perpective, and you bring up a lot of interesting ideas. Plus it is fascinating to read about M from the viewpoint of someone who was just recently involved with him - I've learned a lot. Anyway, you may feel like you have lost your identity, but I sense a very strong identity behind your posts - someone who I like very much. Take care, Judex Katie Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 04, 1998 at 16:53:17 (EST)
From: Judex Email: None To: Katie and Jim Subject: To Jude (from the bitch!) Message: Thank you both. Thanks Katie - yes I do feel like that. Jim, the first thought doesn't have to do with the second thought. Perhaps paragraphs do not describe the way my fabulous mind works. You know the worst part of feeling the way I'm feeling? I am working as a receptionist in the mornings. I have never really been a 'switchboard operator'. I like wearing the suits but hate being the mummy who takes people's messages all day. Anyway, the last week I've been cutting people off left right and centre. I'm actually scared they're going to ask me to leave! It's like - is this finger trouble, brain trouble, or am I suppressing my rage????at having to do such a menial job AT MY AGE (I should be 'Driftin...on the Ocean Blue....driftin'....till I get to you....o master, take me to the palace) o well. Better hit the grindstone. By the way, I know all of that was irrelevant but I am re-directing your call. See you later. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 04, 1998 at 17:35:07 (EST)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs To: Judex Subject: To Jude (from the bitch!) Message: Dear Judex, Glad to see you here and joking about the shit, I am learning to swear here, life is throwing at you right now. We are all on your side and would do anything to help. Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Jun 02, 1998 at 17:25:23 (EST)
From: Paul Email: None To: Bruce Subject: questions from the soapbox Message: Bruce, you state: 'The difference is that practicing premies still connect to an experience to counteract the mind and its oh so logical reasonings, questions, cynicisms,that insist on keeping us in boring normality, conceptualising or denying anything greater.' This is such a telling statement. You equate reasoning, and questioning with the denial of an experience of Self. Since you can't conceive of an experience apart from your Master, the two become a package deal. Any cynicism or questioning directed at M becomes an attack on your experience 'of something greater.' Many traditions invite questioning, reason and even cynicism as means to refine beliefs and validate experience. The absence of this with M would raise warning flags for you if you hadn't already packed away your critical thinking. Paul Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 03, 1998 at 08:42:49 (EST)
From: Bruce Email: None To: Paul Subject: questions from the soapbox Message: Paul, Seems like you've learnt to selectively cut and paste to change the meaning. Been getting lessons from Jim? This is what I said above. To suggest that premies are never critical of M .is absurd. The mind, the ego whatever you want to call it, will always find things to question. That's its job. We all have that. Premie , expremie, nonpremie alike. The difference is that practising premies still connect to an experience to counteract the mind and its oh so logical reasonings, questions, cynicisms,that insist on keeping us in boring normality, conceptualising or denying anything greater. Its not being mindless. Its seeing the limitations of mind and going beyond it. YOUR problem is that you've suspended your own ability to read what premies actually write because of your own biased views and misconception brought on by the propaganda of expremies that premies don't think critically. The proof is above. Read what I said initially, and you will find that your response is in fact a programmed one, and nonsensical. Bruce Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 03, 1998 at 11:07:46 (EST)
From: Paul Email: None To: Bruce Subject: questions from the soapbox Message: Bruce: Please enlighten me. When and where do premies openly question M or K? Where is the open dialog with M-at programs? video shows? At satsang-oops, sorry. No more satsang. Premies can't be trusted to talk about their own exerience in public. (and you think I'm biased?) When you say the the 'Mind' always finds things to question, this has always been seen as a negative in the premie community, since 'the mind' is a very bad thing. Remember, 'leave no room for doubts in your mind.' You are the one who is defining the mind as something that needs to be 'counteracted', not me! And that means that any questioning of M or K that comes from this 'mind' is bad and to be ignored. Please read what you have actually said in your post. Paul Paul Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 03, 1998 at 13:24:49 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Bruce Subject: Bruce, scrapyard guard-dog Message: Bruce, I'm quite convinced there is no talking with you and I do so now only to allow you to continue to demonstrate the ugly, mean-spirited nonsense premies spit out to defend their frozen mental states. On the other hand, I'm not giving you the slightest room to accuse me of dropping off the rational teeter-totter with you. I will continue to answer anything you say fully and honestly. You, though, I repeat, have turned into an incredibly ugly person. Okay. Where were we? Yes, I recall. There really is no talking with you. Your 'out of context' excuse is so absurd it makes me shudder to think that I could have grown into one of you had I stuck it out for another few decades. Ever talked to a fundamentalist christian? Ever notice how they do exactly what you're doing? Try to discuss a point in the bible and they'll begin talking no problem. As long as they have soom room to manoeuvre they'll discuss things properly. But what happens when they get cornered? Honesty's not an option, really, is it? No. So what do they do? Exactly what you do, Bruce, they complain that the passage is being 'taken out of context'. Bruce, no one has taken anything either you've said or Mahraji's said out of context. There are no 'programmed' or 'nonsensical' responses here, Bruce, beside yours. Look, what kind of joke is this? Who is it that actually tries to suspend their judgment while the words flow in? Do you think that that's how we former premies communciate with one another? Of course not, that's the way premies suck in the mental garbage of your master. Isn't that how this 'programming' takes place, if at all? It surely isn't in the back and forth here. Oh, sorry, I forgot -- words don't have any real meaning to you cult members. If you want to call the discussion here programming and the effect of sitting like idiots in front of these videos and 'events' hour after hour, day after day, month after month, year after year, decade after decade, NOT programming, maybe you're right. Bruce, I can't imagine a single, sane adult in this entire world who would agree with you outside your own dwindling cult membership. Even you know it. You're just unconscionable, that's all. But let's get down to it, shall we? Enough of this abstract stuff. Let's get real. You say that Paul took your comments out of context. Prove it. Show how anything you said earlier that he didn't excerpt somehow changes the apparent meaning of that part he did clip. That is, after all, what your complaint about 'selective' clipping's all about, isn't it? This is how things work in real life, Bruce. You make a claim, especially one such a sthis, that someone's actually distorting the thrust of your statement, you better be prepared to back it up. Otherwise, bud, you look like you're just flailing. So come on, Bruce, put up or shut up. How did Paul distort what you said? Look, I know you by now. I know that there's a good chance you won't reply because, of course, you can't. You're just a viscious guard dog barking and yanking on your master's chain. But don't fool yourself. There are other premies who see here just what it takes to defend this trip and, as you already know, they sometimes find these little exercises more illuminating than you'd ever intended. But, anyway, go for it. Let's here how Paul -- or I, or anyone -- has ever distorted anything you or your master has ever said. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 03, 1998 at 14:08:35 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Bruce Subject: what answers, Bruce? Message: I could show you how you have repeatedly asked questions of me and other premies here on this forum, have been offerred several answers, and then, as the thread goes into the inactive list or achives, you pop up again with the same question bemoaning that NOBODY WILL ANSWER IT. Poppycock, Bruce. For example, my question about the Kramer/Alstad point that authority figures who ignore or punish people who refuse to obey them without question. Not a single premie answered it. You certainly didn't. What you did was ask me for examples besides Maharaji. I asked others if they knew of any, nobody replied and I just kind of left it. But that hardly constitutes an asnwer, Bruce. No other premie answered it either. Oh yeah, Jack, threw some dictionary definitions at me. Not that they wee wrong or anything but they certainly didn't answer the question. How about now, are you prepared to simply ansewr it yet? Come on, drop all the pretense and tell me if you agree or disagree with them. You know you haven't done it yet. Everyone knows you haven't. Don't make a bigger fool of yourself than you ahve already. Go for it, try to answer: do you think that authority figures who either punish or refuse to deal with people who don't obey them without question are 'authoritarian'? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |