Ex-Premie.Org |
Forum III Archive # 16 | |
From: Jul 3, 1998 |
To: Jul 11, 1998 |
Page: 1 Of: 5 |
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Date: Thurs, Jul 09, 1998 at 10:11:32 (EST)
From: A Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Do you guys still meditate? Message: Having heard the wonders of Knowlege for many years only to find (from reading this site) that it is just a variation of pretty standard meditative techniques, I was wondering if you (ex-premies) still practice Knowledge or any other form of meditation? Or did your experience with MJ put you off all meditation for life? K, for most premies I have spoken to, is the most valuable thing in their lives (outside MJ) so if it is just ordinary mediation, and granting that many premies meditated before becoming premies, how is it that more people don't see through this immediately? Granted, MJ is charismatic, but he can't be THAT charismatic! Having said that, I have a friend who finds listening to MJ much more soothing than practicing K. She has been through a lot of difficult times with her long involvement with MJ and has often been down-trodden by him and she experienced a great loss when the ashrams closed. Now, all these years later, she still finds it difficult to function in this world, and always misses her ashram days. Although she has very little money, she still manages to give extravagent gifts to him. I watch her pain close-up and I see how the ONLY thing that makes her happy is to go to programs (maybe like alcohol is the only thing that makes an alcaholic happy). There is little that I can do for her except to take her a little ways out of the premie world (most of her friends are premies). I wish that there was a way of separating MJ from K: if you want a guru, follow MJ; if you want to meditate, try K. Then things would be a lot clearer and a lot more honest. But I am realizing, from reading this forum, that the combination is a lethal cocktail, and it leads to gross manipulation. A Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jul 09, 1998 at 11:15:02 (EST)
From: Jerry Email: None To: A Subject: Do you guys still meditate? Message: Meditating Maharaji's way is really quite natural. It's almost easier TO meditate than it is NOT TO meditate, it's that natural. Basically, it's as easy as closing your eyes or breathing. The thing is I've never met anybody who's experienced much through meditation unless he was completely in love with Maharaji. I believe that it is this love for Maharaji that people experience while meditating, not anything inherent in themselves outside of that. Take away devotion to Maharaji, take away the bliss of meditation. Now, what perplexes me is that there are ex-premies who still meditate that claim their experinces are still the same as they were when they were devoted to Maharaji. I can't fathom this, although I've no reason to doubt it. Still, I've never met a premie who contested that in order to experience Knowledge you had to be completely devoted to the master. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jul 09, 1998 at 20:33:24 (EST)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Jerry Subject: Do you guys still meditate? Message: Dear Jerry, I am just here to be counted as an ex who has had good and sometimes powerful experiences with K but then I was never head over heels with BM. No one was screening anyone out of my K session that I was aware of, I just slipped through the cracks. I have remembered more about my telling people about BM being god and I had forgotten that but I was never a total devotee and I am glad for that. Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jul 10, 1998 at 09:36:57 (EST)
From: Jerry Email: None To: Robyn Subject: Do you guys still meditate? Message: I've had Knowledge for almost 18 years. I don't think I can count on one hand the amount of times I've had some sort of experience, let alone a powerful one. But I don't doubt that your experiences have been and continue to be genuine and nourishing. The only thing I find Knowledge to be useful for is that it gives me the ability to step away from my incredibly paranoid mind and look at it objectively instead of being swamped by it. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jul 09, 1998 at 11:53:04 (EST)
From: Mickey the Pharisee Email: mgdbach@ziplink.net To: A Subject: Do you guys still meditate? Message: I no longer practice K. I do some meditation such as the Prayer of the Heart, and I pray and study, but I don't squeeze my eyeballs or plug my ears or any of that stuff. I find watching the Teletubbies creates the same serenity as K did. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jul 09, 1998 at 20:18:38 (EST)
From: Sir David Email: David.Studio57@btinternet.com To: Mickey the Pharisee Subject: Teletubbyland Message: That's fantastic! You get the Teletubbies over there in the US. I have been enraptured by them since they first appeared on TV. The world of tubby toast, Noo Noo, Laa Laa's ball, the rabbits and tubby custard have got me completely entranced. Good to know that we've still got something worth exporting. Telletubbies love each other very much. What better message to broadcast on TV. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jul 09, 1998 at 22:13:14 (EST)
From: bftb Email: None To: Sir David Subject: Teletubbyland Message: I LOVE the teletubbies.They entrance me as well. Now if you ever needed confirmation of just how boorish we are on this side of the atlantic then check this out:We see the same show as you however they overdub the british voice over guy with an american sounding voice over! See,they're afraid of losing audience if it sounds too foreign.Pretty lame huh. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jul 09, 1998 at 23:19:25 (EST)
From: Mickey the Pharisee Email: mgdbach@ziplink.net To: bftb Subject: Teletubbyland Message: Do they really overdub that voice? There are some British voices (excluding the tubbies, of course). I record the program everyday and my wife and 16 year-old daughter and I watch it after dinner. I am totally entranced, and love Laa-laa, while my daughter is Po all the way. My wife and I were trying to figure out why we like it so. It is very gentle and sweet. My triplet nephews and neice also love the show. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jul 10, 1998 at 00:08:13 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: Mickey the Pharisee Subject: Teletubbyland Message: Maybe you guys should try meditation. Do you really think there is a need for a show targeted to one year olds? Do you think it's a good idea, given how TV already consumes the majority of the waking hours of kids to present to one-year-olds that a television is PART of their BODIES???? I mean as opposed to a piece of furniture???? Do you think it's interesting that on the show they show a tortously slow segment and they say they will show it AGAIN and DO????? I read in the local paper that the largest audience for this show, besides one year olds, is crystal meth addicts. I am not lying. Yeah, meditation might help you guys. Maybe a cult, too.:) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jul 10, 1998 at 09:49:42 (EST)
From: Jerry Email: None To: JW Subject: Teletubbyland Message: You're responding to three guys named Sir David, bftb, and Mickey The Pharisee, JW. How do you know that they aren't the crystal meth addicts you've read about? Or maybe the 1 year olds. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jul 10, 1998 at 11:11:46 (EST)
From: bftb Email: None To: Mickey the Pharisee Subject: Teletubbyland Message: Well hello to a fellow one year old crystal meth addict.Actually I went a bit overboard to make a small joke which was really a play on the stereotype of the europeans stereotype of America being a land of boors.Now I've even gone and insulted the brits because for some strange reason(I think it's water or something)many of them don't think of themselves as europeans.We know better though don't we. I also went a bit overboard with what I said.The actual story is like this: the pbs version is mostly the same as the british one,however there are only 4 voices(aside from the teletubbies themselves)on the british one and on the pbs one there are another 3 or 4 voices that aren't on the british one.So we get what they get plus american voices that they don't get.For example;when they say goodbye we get the british voice they get for a bit but mainly we get an american voice.Same as at the beginning of the show. In a nutshell; they've added american voices to the existing ones and have cut back on how much 'proper english' we hear.:-) Since it's aimed at toddlers maybe the thinking is that they're too young to not hear any of the accents that they'll be hearing all their lives lest they become confused and grow up sounding like brits. Hey,maybe teletubbies is some kind of british plot to regain control of america! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jul 10, 1998 at 15:31:41 (EST)
From: Mickey the Pharisee Email: mgdbach@ziplink.net To: bftb Subject: Teletubbyland Message: Eh-oh, you one year-old crystal meth fiend! Thanks for clearing that up; I was curious about those American accents, but I didn't know that they were added for North American consumption! If two year-olds can understand Laa-laa, they would have no problem understanding any other voice on the show. Sheesh!!! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jul 10, 1998 at 16:05:40 (EST)
From: Sir David Email: David.Studio57@btinternet.com To: bftb Subject: Time for Tubby bye bye Message: bftb wrote: 'Hey,maybe teletubbies is some kind of british plot to regain control of america!' Yeah, you got it in one. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jul 09, 1998 at 13:30:10 (EST)
From: ALAIN TIERCELIN Email: None To: A Subject: Do you guys still meditate? Message: I have just discovered this site. I was a premie from 1977 to 1985. I haven't heard anything from M or the premies for 13 years. I wonder if this lie is still around: krishna, buddha, mohammed, christ, were all perfect masters. There is always a perfect master otherwise this earth would just blow off. Also I like to know what happen to his 4 children. alain, montreal Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jul 09, 1998 at 20:16:37 (EST)
From: Gail Email: freedom@gtn.net To: ALAIN TIERCELIN Subject: MJs still around Message: Bonjour. Yes MJ is still spreading his disease. I don't know what Hansi and Amar are doing but--Premlata (Wadie Sue) works for Visions (one of MJs companies that makes videos, magazines, pictures, etc.) and sang one Devotional song at the Long Beach Programming Special last December. Her sister Dayalata is a musician and helps to make devotional CDs at their new Malibu mansion with their 22 million dollar recording studio. They are all thriving on the backs of the premies. Do you know Guy Bourbonez (spelling?) or Claude Bourgeoise? They were two Montrealers I knew in London. George Legere has just recently gotten a promotion and has some huge responsibility for N.A. As far as I know, he still handles the cash donations. I ASKED FOR AND GOT MINE BACK LAST MONTH. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jul 10, 1998 at 00:13:21 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: Gail Subject: MJs still around Message: Good for you, Gail. Getting your money back, I mean.....Did you have to twist any arms or threaten to sue to get it? What do you mean 'new' Malibu residence. Is there a different mansion from the one they always had? Is the $22 million figure for the recording studio widely known? I thought Wadi was the kid BM was bragging about in Australia that she was accepted at some exclusive school. Have you heard that too? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jul 10, 1998 at 14:06:23 (EST)
From: Gail Email: freedom@gtn.net To: JW Subject: MJs still around Message: MJ invited skilled and unskilled premies to come and build a new mansion for him. They had to have their own money to support themselves while they were there. Nobody from here went. At that time, some premies wives lost their husbands for good. There's nothing like ditching your family for MJ. IT'S SOOOOO FREEING. A woman in Toronto lost her husband this way. After the new house was built, he claimed to have torn the old house down. I know there is a separate guest house. I guess the new mansion is just perfect. MJ designed it himself (must have used CAD). Oh, let's give him a home Staffed with sweet premie clones So our Lord And his children can play. Where dedication is seen-- Every detail pristine. And the dear premies Serve-us and pray. Home, home on the hill. I hear God lives there still. Where surrender's not heard. Gratitude's the new word. Show yours Send a cheque today. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jul 10, 1998 at 17:13:19 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: Gail Subject: MJs still around Message: Gail, be careful, I tend to spill hot liquids on myself when I start laughing uncontrollably and you have done that to me. Very well done. I didn't know there was a 'new' Malibu residence. Geez. What a greedy pig. I know the 'old' mansion, despite being quite luxurious, was considered by himself as being insufficiently large. The 'mansion project' sounds similar to the 'plane project' at DECA some years ago. Various spouses and children were abandoned in that 'ego-trip-of-the-lord' as well. How did premies build a mansion and also support themselves? Did they hold two jobs or something? Also, how were the funds raised to build the house? Was it another 'world tour' fundraising campaign? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jul 10, 1998 at 17:42:27 (EST)
From: Gail Email: None To: JW Subject: MJs still around-making $$$ Message: There is ALWAYS a push for money. YOU KNOW: MJ HAS MANY EXCITING NEW PLANS FOR THE YEAR, dah, dah, dah. The latest ploy is to tell the N.A. premies that they have to go this summer because that's all the events for this area. I noticed that he has left some free time at Christmas. As Padarthanand said, he may, of course, surprise us. I stopped going to the special phone feeds and trips to Toronto to hear Raja Ji and others plead for money. I didn't want to give any more. I figured that $125 on my credit card, chipping in on the library and current facility, and cash for instructor visits was enough. WHAT AN IDIOT I HAVE BEEN. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jul 10, 1998 at 18:03:51 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: Gail Subject: MJs still around-making $$$ Message: Don't feel bad, Gail. I turned over my entire income for 8 years, that's how much of a an idiot I was. I also used to be one of those people who got up and pleaded for money from people, many of whom I knew could not afford to give it and that likely they and their families suffered as a result. But there for awhile, I did the lord's dirty work. Finally couldn't do it anymore. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jul 10, 1998 at 17:46:20 (EST)
From: RT Email: hahahahah To: Gail Subject: My time at the Residence/1 Message: Hi Gail..:) Very good rhymes! Swoon there will be a CD with you on vocals, Jim on Guitar and a Premie on bongos, just for balance! OK, you wrote the magic words, CAD, residence, Mj, $$. I was there for a week at my expense in Feb '92 for all above. I paid $200 for a room in the Bob T's house, plus food, plus airfare, plus everything. For 5 days of 12 hours a day in a trailer. Most amazing were the construction conditions: premies used portolets-normal in a construction site, but the sink had no plumbing. So you wash your hands and get mud on your shoes. Rivers of mud. Then it rained, a mess; Then track it into the trailer. Dust everywhere, but, the elite area: only 8 allowed in as we had the technical skills on the pc. It was cold in February. P's ate in the unfinished garages, it was sad to see people there at night up to 8 pm, eating a sandwich from the supermart at the hills' bottom. You would think a kitchen/cook would AT LEAST provide hot soup..no, you brought everything in at your expense. My serve-us was to put Architects' sketches into CAD. But the PC blew out, right off, no money to replace: they were donated (loaned) pc's. In other words, is addition to flying and helping you were asked to bring a laptop. After the week was over: what I actually did could have been done in 1 hour: I counted the windows and tallied them up. What a waste of my time, in retrospect. A week, of which several days he was right behind/beside me. Big deal. I remember not feeling anything except I couldn't focus with him in the room; you waited for him to move. Finally I decided to treat him like any other client, not as a lord because I really did not feel anything like that, and I was ok. There were jokes, and I laughed a lot. I noticed he always looked at the Premies whose eyes shown with 'love,' you know, that Glazed Doe-Nuts look. I remember thinking 'Jeez, why don't I feel that way? What's wrong with me, I meditated today!' Duh...because the Lord is a fraud, dummy. Best Part: the souvenir....I'll have to email you tonite on that one! It's hot. end part one of: the Lo-Rez Abode of the Fraud. RT Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jul 10, 1998 at 18:09:58 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: RT Subject: My time at the Residence/1 Message: RT, come on, you have to share the 'souvenir' with all of us. What is it? A pair of his jocky shorts? Maybe a partially eaten pork chop? What? If he had so much money to build this great house, how come no money to feed and/or pay the premies who did work for his house? Were you personally contacted to do this work, or did you volunteer? And let's have the dirty details. How big IS the house? Does it have gold plumbing fixtures like the old one did? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jul 10, 1998 at 20:30:42 (EST)
From: RT Email: mmmm To: JW/you guys. Subject: My time at the Residence/2 Message: Dear JW, secrets shared to soon can come back go boom. It's a document that we are hoping to upload, waiting for clearace. patience will be worth it! mysteriously yours RT 1. I was asked long distance because I was one of 5 who had the CAD skills, by my guess. No, I was not fed. In fact, I brought a batch of granola bars and fruit one day and they quickly were eaten. Didn't do that again. Given only water, was in a bottle so not holy. You had to truck in everything. The house-ananda is huge, heart shaped, the v of the heart actually bisects the heart as it is split..Ground floor entry thru this heart has flowers, etc. on each side. Door opens to living, pool, massage area, office, recording studio, etc.[I have to get my notes...it's been 7 years.] Second floor, same path, but carpeted, open to the full size mural of Shri Hans Ji...like a partition. High Drama interior design.I recall Marilyn had her own bath, office, then a premie office, the laundry room on the right side of this heart, on the left, Mister bedroom, bath, office, Amar, bathroom shared, hansi, office/study. Under, a massage room, pool changing room, recording studio. His bedroom has best view. Deck facing Pacific. Ji-wiz part is the deck door drops DOWN when he want to go out onto it...electric door goes DOWN, not slide or swing, thru a slot. Not cheap. Told this is for santanna winds . As I sat next to him that that day, he wanted electric windows for all 66 ( I counted them twice) , but the poor premies could not find a suitable window device. An engineer said to me: 'he always does this..we look and look for a vendor / device, fail to satisfy, and then he decides to invent it... he invented the garage door openers, y'know.' 'How's that work?' 'They slide up a certain way, real easy.'.?? So as I sat there, by his side, watching them (8 premies) watch him, I looked up and shrugged. 'Self,' I told myself, 'treat him like a special client. This lord thingy is not working for you' Then I opened Architectural Graphic Standards, a huge book of drawings, and found some windows that would work. 'Look, Maharaji, these would do': I finger pointed to the text, about 4 sentences. he read them aloud.... then forgot all about it. It was like, he can read but not comprehend, or didnt give a damn about my research..weird. Most you would expect is a thanks, or, later - I'll review that. all for now...it's Friday nite. As I type I do remember the holy fame. Wait till Monday, I'll have more details, OK? regards RT Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jul 10, 1998 at 23:41:02 (EST)
From: Katie Email: None To: RT Subject: M is mentally ill, IMHO Message: After hearing your and Gail's stories about the design and building of the new residence, I am convinced that Maharaji is seriously mentally ill. (I am not kidding about this. I usually try to be kind and accepting, but this beats all.) I cannot understand how any human being could let people who were designing and building a house for HIM to eat convenience store sandwiches in a cold garage late at night. Maybe the guy was broke, but if he could afford a new house, he could afford a hot plate and some cans of soup. RT, your story about the computer facilities was unbelievable. I cannot believe that M would have to rely on substandard computer facilities when he probably had many thousand dollars worth of computers in his own home nearby. Worse yet, he could have saved so much money by just BUYING you all a decent computer and letting you work on it - all those skilled hours for free, and he wasted them. I think the guy is nuts (twisted, flip city, boogie-shoogie or whatever!). Either that, or it's a big lila and I just don't get it. (And never will.) RT, thank you for those stories (Gail, thanks to you as well). I am glad both of you are here and are not sitting in a garage in Malibu eating cold sandwiches in February. Katie Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jul 11, 1998 at 11:49:02 (EST)
From: Bobby Email: bobby2@mindspring.com To: Katie Subject: M is mentally ill, IMHO Message: Re: Maharaji. >>I think the guy is nuts (twisted, flip city, boogie-shoogie or whatever!). So what? Everybody is nuts IMHO. What is sanity? Who here is sane? >>>Either that, or it's a big lila and I just don't get it. I think it is a big lila. The whole thing. The whole game called reality. And I'm not saying Maharaji is anything at all. I don't think he's enlightened. Just part of the game. The point is that I received a valid mediation, a way through the suffering. And no, it doesn't make sense. He's never made sense to me. I don't care. I still practice mediation and it just works for me. I'm not a devotee. My root guru is Buddhist. As far as people treating people like animals this happens every day. And to a degree we are all tacit complicitors in people subjugating and abusing people. There's a lot of suffering going on in the world. A lot of suffering. For the most part we are blinded to it. To me, the only cure for suffering is awareness. The message of Buddhism is that suffering exists and there is a way through. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jul 11, 1998 at 12:05:52 (EST)
From: Bobby Email: None To: anyone Subject: M is ignorant, IMHO Message: And another thing. Please don't mistake my comments as apologizing for Maharaji's behavior. I'm not a maharaji apologist. I don't really care much about what he does. To me, there's plenty of hatred and violence that goes on everyday in all walks of life. The hatred and violence are what are hard for me to accept and there are plenty of perpetrators of these all around. Maharaji may be greedy, materialistic and/or ignorant but I don't see a lot of evidence in Maharaji for hatred per se. I believe sanity is awareness, a pretty rare commodity. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jul 11, 1998 at 14:13:00 (EST)
From: bftb Email: None To: Bobby Subject: M is ignorant, IMHO Message: Bobby!I really don't have anything to say right now other then it's good to see a post from you!This has put me in a good mood. I hope all is well with you. God bless you Bobby. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jul 11, 1998 at 01:40:35 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: RT Subject: My time at the Residence/2 Message: RT: I'll look forward to seeing the souvenir 'document.' Maybe Christmas will be early this year. I know I asked you about the house, but as you describe it I get kind of nauseous. He always gets the best, doesn't he? I think it would be so good for him to live in abject poverty for a few years. Maybe have to qualify for food stamps and have to deal with insolent government bureaucrats. YES, and eat government surplus cheese and peanut butter. And maybe live in a two-bedroom apartment in Bakersfield. Yeah, that might do it. Electric doors that slide DOWN? 66 electric windows? What, does he have broken arms or something and is too delicate to open and close windows? Geez and I thought gold plumbing fixtures were bad! It was like, he can read but not comprehend, or didnt give a damn about my research..weird. Most you would expect is a thanks, or, later - I'll review that. I think KK already pointed out that Maharaji has the attention span of a child, but I think it may really be more like that of a cocker spaniel. Thanks for your post, RT. Thanks also for telling your story. JW Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jul 11, 1998 at 03:19:40 (EST)
From: Runamok Email: lotuspower To: JW Subject: My time at the Residence/2 Message: Maybe what he needs is more like prison time or something. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jul 11, 1998 at 11:55:32 (EST)
From: RT Email: It's electric! To: JW Subject: My time at the Residence/2.1 Message: Hi JW It's good for me to tell too, as one has doubt's but they are buried by the strife-style. The windows were for the sudden santanna winds; he wanted one switch to close all. Someone in the trailer said, 'yeah, can you imagine Wadi running around to close 66 windows.' So I expect the Fortress of Solitude is as equipped as Gates'. In a sense I regret the long time I sat this trip out, that is proof of its well conceived dream. I once heard that MJ's favorite last incarnation was as Milarepa, the Magician Yogi of Tibet. {There's a book about his life.} One could imagine a Tom -Robbins-like novel describing his thoughts, as he sits in a cave, preparing for his greatest con: Even Yogis Get the Satgurus. RT who says: lets write a forum novel-on line! (we all ready are, but it's non fiction.) Make back all the donated bucks! Comments? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jul 11, 1998 at 12:03:45 (EST)
From: Judex Email: None To: RT Subject: to RT - story telling Message: I once heard that MJ's favorite last incarnation was as Milarepa, the Magician Yogi of Tibet. {There's a book about his life.} One could imagine a Tom -Robbins-like novel describing his thoughts, as he sits in a cave, preparing for his greatest con: Even Yogis Get the Satgurus. RT who says: lets write a forum novel-on line! (we all ready are, but it's non fiction.) Make back all the donated bucks! Comments? What a brilliant idea, RT. I wrote a short book/story about finding M and knowledge last year, as I mentioned recently. The style was meant to be simple, almost child-like. It was meant to be accompanied by hand-drawn pictures. A distant cousin to 'Le Petit Prince' but only concept-wise (no comparison!) This story you are imagining is v.different to that, being the opposite story, and from his point of view? the lonely, timeless guru? It's funny you should be saying this because Scott and I were talking the other day about stories & I was telling him about a book called 'The First Five Hundred Years' which is about two immortals who keep meeting in different settings but cannot die. Anyway, quite excited by your idea. Love to be involved! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jul 11, 1998 at 00:56:04 (EST)
From: Gail Email: None To: JW Subject: Souvenir Sweater Message: Shortly after my mother died, I received a sweater that MJ wore. It did cheer me up at the time I must confess. MJ asked this woman to send his used stuff out to premies. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jul 09, 1998 at 16:06:41 (EST)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: A Subject: Do you guys still meditate? Message: Dear A, My heart goes out to your friend, big time. I still meditate, not regularly though but I still really value the meditation and there are a fair number of us here that do K or other meditations. You are doing your best for your friend, maybe someday she will find us here, eh? Love, Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jul 09, 1998 at 20:09:01 (EST)
From: TD Email: None To: A Subject: Do you guys still meditate? Message: I stopped meditating in April and had a really horrible few days coming off it. I felt really jittery and pathetic and really quite scared of the effects of not doing it. A lot of premies will tell you that practising Knowledge IS an addiction, but it's a great addiction, an addiction to 'love' and that place inside. All I can say now is that addictions to anything are bad and do become a crutch. Once when I was an aspirant, my partner (who was a premie) and I went on a camping trip for the weekend. For one day he missed practising (because of the long drive out there) and he turned into this strung-out freaky chap and it really disturbed me, but I thought 'Wow' at the same time. It'd be interesting to see some of those premies you know, if they don't meditate for a couple of days. They might not be so calm and serene - so anaesthetised! I'm not ready to meditate/practise again because I'm still going through the 'deprogramming' of having been a devotee to M, and practising K played a big part in remaining a devotee to him. So until I can really distinguish the two, I have no interest in further meditation. Regards, TD Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jul 09, 1998 at 20:30:06 (EST)
From: Sir David Email: David.Studio57@btinternet.com To: TD Subject: Do you guys still meditate? Message: Let's not be under any illusions here; most PREMIES don't meditate. Some do but the majority only do it now and then. Back in the eighties after I'd left Haharaji, the only premies I still knew were more into smoking dope than meditation. And these were the guys who were trying to persuade me to go and see Haharaji! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jul 10, 1998 at 00:35:19 (EST)
From: jorge rujman Email: jrujman@amauta.rcp.net.pe To: TD Subject: Do you guys still meditate? Message: I am a totally new comer here; and very puzzled by the tittle of dthe subject..To me it is , have you ever experienced a split second in the third technic? just one split second?..Well, this may be a useless mesage, but me, for- one, it has; What can I say guys, maybe a tinny bitzi winy effort like please-please-please might've done the job...you know 'Show me!!' hard ey.jorge Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jul 10, 1998 at 02:35:30 (EST)
From: reformed ex Email: None To: jorge rujman Subject: Now I Get It Jorge Message: Thank you so much. All through those 15 years of ss&m, and now you tell me I wasn't asking right. But I sang that song, 'Please, please, please teach me devotion. Oh Maharaji please show me, I'm ready to start'. And I thought I was sincere. Dammit. I guess I missed the boat. Oh no, here come the sharks. Aaaaargh!!! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jul 09, 1998 at 20:46:14 (EST)
From: Lg Email: None To: A Subject: Do you guys still meditate? Message: Hi A I rarely meditate and life is just the same as when I used to meditate hours. I realized it was a waste of time. What makes a difference for me in my life is to learn some spiritual truth. Such as the books of Ramtha. Lg Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jul 09, 1998 at 21:04:32 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Lg Subject: Do you guys still meditate? Message: What makes a difference for me in my life is to learn some spiritual truth. Such as the books of Ramtha. Ha ha ha ha! Good one. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jul 09, 1998 at 23:46:30 (EST)
From: gErRy Email: None To: Jim Subject: Do you guys still meditate? Message: Jim dammit dont piss off Ramptha now. He lives down the street from me in Yelm and he'll blow up Mt Rainier if you get him really mad. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jul 10, 1998 at 12:20:52 (EST)
From: Lg Email: None To: gErRy Subject: Do you guys still meditate? Message: Hi gErRy You know the teachings of Ramtha? Have you taken the C & E workshops? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jul 10, 1998 at 12:42:32 (EST)
From: Gerry Email: None To: Lg Subject: Do you guys still meditate? Message: Howdy Lg, I haven't taken any Ramtha workshops and am not so inclined. I do know a number of people who have, and understand they are very intense as well as debilitating and very expensive. One guy I know takes his vacations to attend these and almost always returns ill. He works with my wife. I shared office space with an ex-Ramtha and he filled me in on a lot of the things that go on there. He was very glad to get away and lead a normal life. He is still peripherally interested in things spiritual but is one hell of a singer and guitar player, as well as a great businessman so now puts most of his energies in these directions. I've been meaning to read JZ's book for some time, but haven't yet. Living so close, I hear a lot about this cult, some of which I'm sure is distorted, but enough to realize that it is indeed a cult. I think again that money rules here also. I don't mean to offend you if you are involved, but I think one should call a spade a spade. I admit my knowledge of this is limited, and heresay also. Having been burned once, I am naturally gun shy about these things. Since they have so little impact on my present life, I haven't personally taken the time to check them out thoroughly. I have met many, many people involved in one level or another. They don't try to convert people as far as I know and the town of Yelm seems to be ok with them. After all they are a financial shot in the arm to the local economy. Hope this answers your question and am eager to hear your take on it. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jul 10, 1998 at 13:19:15 (EST)
From: Lg Email: None To: Gerry Subject: Do you guys still meditate? Message: Hi Gerry I have only read many of the Ramtha books and seen their videos. I think the philosophy is 'straight' and because the workshops are so intense, I am thinking twice about it. I live in Ontario, Canada and it would be a hell of a way to get there alone and find the place. Because the teachings come from an ascended entity, this makes it more 'authentic' to me. I'm more clined to hear it. And the concept of ascending is interesting since it would be 'something' different to experience. However, I know my own feelings comes first disreguarding who says this or that. I am curious to find out what is and how to do the C & E technique though. I have read the latest book: 'Finding enlightenment' by Morton. He talks about the style of program that goes on there, and I agree that it seems to be a little too rough for me. I'll pass on for now. (my english is not too good) Lg Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jul 10, 1998 at 13:39:55 (EST)
From: Gerry Email: glyng@techline.com To: Lg Subject: Ontario and ascended masters Message: Hi Lg, I've been to Ontario many times. I lived in Watertown, NY as a child. My mother's family is French-Canadian and my father's family emigrated from Canada, also, but they were from Ireland. Sometimes, when feeling particularly alienated I fantasize about moving to Quebec and renaming myself Gerard LaRock after my maternal grandfather. Your English is quite good, BTW, and much better than my French! Ascended Masters: I am very suspicious of the origins of these channelled disembodied voices. There are many theories of where they come from and I tend to view them as quirks of the human mind. Some say these are really lower spirits engaging in mischief. A good book in this regard (channelling-not necesarily ascended beings) is Joe Fischer's Hungry Ghosts. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jul 10, 1998 at 14:53:41 (EST)
From: Lg Email: None To: Gerry Subject: Ontario and ascended masters Message: Hi Gerry I am very suspicious of the origins of these channelled disembodied voices. There are many theories of where they come from and I tend to view them as quirks of the human mind. Some say these are really lower spirits engaging in mischief. A good book in this regard (channelling-not necesarily ascended beings) is Joe Fischer's Hungry Ghosts. I agree with you and I’m aware of that. Sometime I question why an ascended entity care so much about the evolution of the human race; as it’s his responsability. I’m cautious when reading anything, and a lot of time I can discreminate when it’s bs. For now, I’ll stay where I am; beside, Yelm is in a quake zone isn’t it. Lg Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jul 10, 1998 at 17:14:41 (EST)
From: RT Email: mmmmmmmm To: Gerry Subject: Who's at the Yelm? Message: Hi Gerry and Lg. I have something in common. Lg, a 6 tape set of C&E session, yours free..altho I may have recorded music over one of them. Anyway a Ramtha-ee gave them to me in '86 when it was hot chit. Free. Gerry, near you is Val Valerian, editor of the Leading Edge Research, a very interesting < www.trufax.org >data base there too. It's worth looking into as it deals with the global supression of conscioussness, something we all guru through. see ya RT Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jul 10, 1998 at 17:31:50 (EST)
From: Lg Email: lucille.gravel@nlc-bnc.ca To: RT Subject: Who's at the Yelm? Message: RT If you could mail the tapes, please, I'm curious about this C & E thing. Send me an e-mail , and will give you my home address. I'll send you for postal fees. Thanks Lg Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jul 11, 1998 at 12:51:43 (EST)
From: Judex Email: None To: Lg Subject: Ramtha Message: Guys, I first heard about Ramtha about 10 years ago when I worked on a new age newspaper in Sydney called 'the Daily Planet' (they later had to re-name it for copyright reasons). I tell you the woman who channels it and this entity is a total fraud. It's an absolute con, have nothing to do with it whatsoever. It is just your garden variety bullshit. In those days it was very much 'move over the mountains because a great flood will come any day'. All these people are just copying the success of Jane Roberts, a 'medium' who wrote 'the Nature of Personal Reality' in the 60's, chanelling an entity called 'Seth'. And she was bullshit too IMO. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jul 10, 1998 at 10:15:08 (EST)
From: Jerry Email: None To: Lg Subject: Krishnamurti Message: I prefer Krishnamurti, myself. So far as I know he's the only one ever strong enough to step down from the spiritual pedestal his devotees placed him on. And right in front of them when they least expected it. I have deep, deep, deep respect for that. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jul 11, 1998 at 15:11:32 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Jerry Subject: Krishnamurti sucked too Message: I prefer Krishnamurti, myself. So far as I know he's the only one ever strong enough to step down from the spiritual pedestal his devotees placed him on. And right in front of them when they least expected it. I have deep, deep, deep respect for that. Not so fast, Jerry. K might have done the right thing at one point, and announced that he WASN'T the avatar (which, by the way, I, too, announced a few weeks ago. Not that anyone was listening!), but he spent the rest of his life pontificating like crazy. As far as I'm concerned he was the most pompous and boring windbag I've ever come across. He says nothing but says it with such an air of self-importance and faux significance it's as good as comedy. Here, I'll do a random dive into the world wide ocean and see what I can find... Here, from the Krishnamurti library of deep thoughts: 'Now the question is: Is there an energy which is not within the field of thought, which is not the result of self-contradictory, compulsive energy, of self-fulfillment as frustration? You understand the question? I hope I am making myself clear. Because, unless we find the quality of that energy which is not merely the product of thought that bit by bit creates the energy but also is mechanical, action is destructive, whether we do social reform, write excellent books, be very clever in business, or create nationalistic divisions and take part in other political activities and so on. Now, the question is whether there is such an energy, not theoretically—because when we are confronted with facts, to introduce theories is infantile, immature. It is like the case of a man who has cancer and is to be operated upon; it is no good discussing what kinds of instruments are to be used and all the rest of it; you have to face the fact that he is to be operated upon. So, similarly, a mind has to penetrate or be in such a state when the mind is not a slave to thought. After all, all thought in time is invention; all the gadgets, jets, the refrigerators, the rockets, the exploration into the atom, space, they are all the result of knowledge, thought. All these are not creation; invention is not creation; capacity is not creation; thought can never be creative because thought is always conditioned and can never be free. It is only that energy which is not the product of thought that is creative...' Nonsense! Now, if you have the new age habit of just liking word play irrespective of meaning, you MIGHT enjoy his stuff. You MIGHT find it pretty good word play as far as that goes. Personally, I think he even fails in htat respect. And worse, he was the crustiest old buzzard, too. Really thought he was something sharp and special. No, I can't stand the guy. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jul 10, 1998 at 12:05:56 (EST)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Lg Subject: wonder why it works for some Message: Dear Lg and all, I wonder why we didn't all have an experience with meditation, even if there would have been varing experiences I could understand that but for some, as you say it was for you, meditated and still didn't have an experience. I know Katie, and others say the same. Gerry, I believe had some moments of meditative experience few and far between. I'd love to hear some views on this and will be thinking about it myself. I just don't feel like I 'made it up'. I wouldn't have known what to 'make' happen to me and my first big experience was right in my K session. I have had many meditative types of experiences also on the spur of the moment unprovocted by meditation or specific thoughts, curious. Love, Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jul 10, 1998 at 13:04:06 (EST)
From: Jerry Email: None To: Robyn Subject: wonder why it doesn't Message: If I may make a suggestion, Robyn, I wouldn't doubt what you've experienced. You seem to be. I would instead endeavor to understand why you had the experience and others didn't. Whenever Maharaji would address those of us who were struggling with Knowledge, he would tell us that we really were experiencing all the bliss of Knowledge, only we couldn't accept it or that we were still caught up in our concepts or whatever. I bought this for the longest time and would try to meditate more 'properly', just focus and let it be but I would always come up empty. Recently, at a video presentation I attended, Maharaji told a story of a woman in Chile who told Maharaji that she experienced nothing during the knowledge session. Maharaji questioned her, 'You experienced nothing'? The woman repeated that she experienced nothing. Maharaji again asked her, 'You experienced nothing'? The woman stood firm and insisted that she experienced nothing. Maharaji asked her a third time, 'You experienced nothing'? The woman paused and then (according to Maharaji) understood what he was driving at and thanked him. Now, I'm assuming that this little story was to clarify things for people like me who believe that they are experienceing nothing. Unless Maharaji was trying to say that 'nothing' is a good thing and we should be grateful for it, then I haven't got a clue what it was he was driving at. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jul 10, 1998 at 15:24:59 (EST)
From: Mickey the Pharisee Email: mgdbach@ziplink.net To: Jerry Subject: wonder why it doesn't Message: Jerry wrote: Recently, at a video presentation I attended, Maharaji told a story of a woman in Chile who told Maharaji that she experienced nothing during the knowledge session. Maharaji questioned her,'You experienced nothing'? The woman repeated that she experienced nothing. Maharaji again asked her, 'You experienced nothing'? The woman stood firm and insisted that she experienced nothing. Maharaji asked her a third time, 'You experienced nothing'? The woman paused and then (according to Maharaji) understood what he was driving at and thanked him.' I think it is more likely that she realized he would keep asking her the same question until she admitted that she 'experienced something.' Sounds like bullying to me. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jul 10, 1998 at 16:36:11 (EST)
From: Jerry Email: None To: Mickey the Pharisee Subject: wonder why it doesn't Message: I think it is more likely that she realized he would keep asking her the same question until she admitted that she 'experienced something.' Sounds like bullying to me. I never considered that, Mickey the Pharisee. But now that you've suggested it, it does make sense that this is probably the case. You're quite perceptive for a 1 year old crystal meth addict.(Anyone furrowing their brows over this last statement is going to have to waste some time browsing the 'Telletubby' posts above this one). Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jul 10, 1998 at 17:03:15 (EST)
From: Mickey the Pharisee Email: None To: Jerry Subject: wonder why it doesn't Message: Jerry wrote: 'You're quite perceptive for a 1 year old crystal meth addict.' It's all that TV! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jul 10, 1998 at 16:14:45 (EST)
From: Lg Email: None To: Jerry Subject: wonder why it doesn't Message: Hi I'm assuming that this little story was to clarify things for people like me who believe that they are experienceing nothing. Perhaps, (to me), the experience he was talking about, is an experience of “reality” which is receiving the technique of meditation. The woman was expecting a whole lot more. Lg Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jul 10, 1998 at 17:02:59 (EST)
From: Jerry Email: None To: Lg Subject: wonder why it doesn't Message: Perhaps, (to me), the experience he was talking about, is an experience of “reality” which is receiving the technique of meditation. The woman was expecting a whole lot more. You mean like more than nothing? I don't mean to be a smartass here and I think I understand what you're saying but I think we were all led to believe that we would experience a whole lot more than merely being revealed some meditation techniques that may or may not work at the knowledge session. And, besides, it's 18 years later for me and I still think I'm experiencing nothing. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jul 10, 1998 at 17:54:40 (EST)
From: Lg Email: None To: Jerry Subject: wonder why it doesn't Message: Hi Jerry You mean like more than nothing? Sorry to skip words Jerry. From my experience, these meditation techniques are nothing more than tools to stay tooned with reality. Nothing more. I understand what you're saying but I think we were all led to believe that we would experience a whole lot more than merely being revealed some meditation techniques that may or may not work at the knowledge session. You are right that we were led to believe something else. Very deceiving, but there is nothing else is there. Just life as we know it . And what WE make of it, makes the difference. And, besides, it's 18 years later for me and I still think I'm experiencing nothing. Yes, because, in my opinion, all there is to experience is just the moment. Cheers Lg Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jul 10, 1998 at 19:02:26 (EST)
From: Gerry Email: None To: Lg Subject: You got it! Message: Yes, because, in my opinion, all there is to experience is just the moment. There it is! See you're already ''enlightened!'' You don't need those C and E tapes. Save your postage money. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jul 10, 1998 at 19:21:33 (EST)
From: Lg Email: None To: Gerry Subject: You got it! Message: Gerry From your knowledge, Is ascention a $$ attraction concept? Lucille Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jul 10, 1998 at 23:37:43 (EST)
From: Gerry Email: None To: Lg Subject: You got it! Message: Honestly, Lucille, I thinks all these differing Ascended Masters cancel each other out with their various predictions and recipes for enlightenment. Are they in it for the money? I think some of them (the channels) are sincere but deluded. I'm no expert on the subject, but I would guess a lot of them are just in it for the money. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jul 11, 1998 at 11:10:15 (EST)
From: Jerry Email: None To: Lg Subject: wonder why it doesn't Message: Sorry to skip words Jerry. From my experience, these meditation techniques are nothing more than tools to stay tooned with reality. Nothing more. I think I understand. Shortly after I'd received Knowledge I remember talking to a girl about the first technique (called light then). She told me that she had been seeing light for sometime before realizing it. Several days later, with quite a shock I might add, I realized what she was saying. Your words had a much more immediate effect. When the woman in Chile realized what Maharaji was talking about, if in fact she did (Mickey The Pharisee's observation does hold some weight), she thanked Maharaji. Thank you. (Interesting how it is an ex-premie that's helped me to realize Knowledge). Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jul 11, 1998 at 13:29:26 (EST)
From: Judex Email: None To: Jerry Subject: Experiencing Nothing Message: Now, I'm assuming that this little story was to clarify things for people like me who believe that they are experienceing nothing. Unless Maharaji was trying to say that 'nothing' is a good thing and we should be grateful for it, then I haven't got a clue what it was he was driving at. I always felt he was saying 'what you experienced that you called nothing - was it really nothing?'. Or, it could be a play on words 'you experienced nothing? So, you did experience something, you had the experience of nothing! This nothing is probably eternal bliss, that's where it's been hiding all these years. Seems to me like the Emperors New Clothes kind of story. You think the Emperor is wearing nothing? Nothing? Hardly anyone has ever shared what they experienced with me (myself included) but I recalled someone saying they saw golden images flash past their eyes like statues of holy personages. Anyone else enter that temple on their nothing travels? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jul 10, 1998 at 15:29:06 (EST)
From: Lg Email: lucille.gravel@nlc-bnc.ca To: Robyn Subject: wonder why it works for some Message: Hi Robyn I wonder why we didn't all have an experience with meditation, I think, just like anything else, it depends of our mind. Just like what is good for some, is poison for others. as you say it was for you, meditated and still didn't have an experience. Once I experienced an energy so strong running up my spine, never I wanted to experience that again. I realized that the only real and true thing for me was my breath. One may realize things like that, or have some ‘fireworks type of experience’, that was all for me. Even with the ‘fireworks type of experiences, the effect of those was short lived anyway. To me this is secondary. I have had many meditative types of experiences also on the spur of the moment I had a lot of those. In the bus, laying on my bed, etc. Especially before receiving K. Now, I know why (for myself) I had so many of those experiences, more then than now. It would be difficult to explain, however, if it is important to you to know those details, e-mail me. It is rather personal. Lg Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jul 09, 1998 at 09:55:44 (EST)
From: Brian Email: brian@ex-premie.org To: Everyone Subject: Sounds fishy, but I'll post it Message: The morning email brought me this. Anyone know a hair-brusher? I'm a friend of Mirabai Luvslight. I heard that she died in 1988. I am not a premie, never was but did attend some sat sang sessions at the Divine Light Mission in Union Square in the late 70's. She was a unique person and though she appeared to be somewhat wacky, she was of the purest heart I've known. She was smitten with love for Gumaraji and his brother Balba Guanji too. Her life and her fantasies revolved around them, and love, and world peace, and her dreams of the 'Holy City' that would one day be built. If anyone recalls her, tall , blonde, smoker, liked nail polish and brushing her hair. I was told she died in Miami in 1988. If anyone can tell me something they know about her I'd appreciate it. She stayed at my house in New York for a few months at a time between 1975-6? and 1985?. She was special to me. - Mdril217@aol.com - Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jul 09, 1998 at 12:44:33 (EST)
From: Mark Email: Apple 4256@aol.com To: Brian Subject: Sounds fishy, but I'll post it Message: a bit cosmic as well as fishy. . . I was thinking about telling her tale last week but passed. . . Mirabai was well schooled in her understanding of real 'Masters' and truly took M at face value that he was one, The One. So she in the directness of a devotee that can truly concieve and believe in an 'all-powerful Lord,the superior power in person' and thinking she'd found one, acted accordingly. She was always demanding that M put her into one stage of advanced Sahmadi or another. . . M knew her and joked with her about it. I remember one Q & A in Miami in the 80's she asked 'I want you to put me in Sahmadi, Now.' he answered referring to Marino, one of his personal guards. 'He doesn't understand people like her. He thinks she's crazy.And he went on to say didn't she want to be with, Him not Sahmadi etc. Always the crowd pleaser. Anyway, she was not feeling guilty or in the mind or whatever, but she too, became a casualty of M's false claims about himself. Any real human being would have taken the time to care for this tremendously open and trusting human being, and said look 'i'm not that level guy. I've just got some good techniques, and I think i've created a nice enviornment for you to practice them. Find a True Master if one exists.'Instead he never allowed her to speak to him. She ended up at the gates on Alton Road in Miami threatening to slit her wrists if M didn't grant her Sahmadi.No answer. Wrists slit. Security calls an ambulance.Ask for the true master, receive a true doctor.The masters not in. Never was. After that, she moved in with Cynthia Korman, another casualty of the Rawat combine. Cynthia was a professional model/premie who was hustled into the Rawat orbit( for her spiritual assets, I'm sure), and became a victim of some substandard behavior by both Bhrama & Bhraman, who each had their way with her in their styles. As a result of this attention,Cynthia believed she was destined to become M's true Wife ( he would leave Marolyn) and they would bring in the new kingdom.After years of pain and confusion about what the Rawat brothers activity was all about she became extremely disoriented , and was committed. So that's one level of Mirabai & Cynthia and their stories. I'm sure there's some level of 'lila' or they were already crazy or whatever- but how about a 'perfect master' or a Lord behaving like one. Or if he can't , how about as a conscious being ! and if you think Cynthia's story's an aberration, its not any remember Carol Eannace or Grace Maas have them post their tales Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jul 09, 1998 at 14:46:47 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: Mark Subject: Sounds fishy, but I'll post it Message: Well, I remember BOTH Carol Eannace and Grace Maas. Nice people both. Whatever happened to them? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jul 09, 1998 at 15:48:19 (EST)
From: Selena Email: None To: JW Subject: Sounds fishy, but I'll post it Message: God this all makes me so mad!! I wish there had been a forum back them so we could have heard this kind of stuff and gotten out sooner. And maybe those poor women could have been helped. And I was just obsessing about how sick I was! At least I didn't have a chance to get close to the fire. I know I would have ended up in a similar place given my psychological makeup. You know, every week that goes by gives me a different perspective on this site and peels away some layer to only reveal some new repressed one. I am amazed and so impressed by this use of computing; someone said it earlier this week - hahaha M!!!! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jul 09, 1998 at 16:21:23 (EST)
From: bb Email: None To: Mark Subject: angel fish Message: Mira Bai was not crazy. She was like you said accepting the guru maharaj ji as he presented himself and was put over the edge by the inevitable crashing against the delusion. She wen't next door to the residence and climbed a tree or fence and got into the house and dripped a lot of blood on the carpet. I heard rawat was upset that security was breached and left on vacation that day leaveing the house to have it's new carpet done. She ended up in the kids room. They were not there but were probably at the horse ranch. I heard she committed suicide later and left a note asking him to reincarnate her into a lifetime where she could be with him And that she had been banned from seeing him as a result of the knife and wrist episode. Thanks for the story and the one about the other victim. The brothers really stoop to a real low by passing around the gopi to each other to truly screw. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jul 09, 1998 at 17:19:18 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: bb Subject: Mira Bai Message: I remember somebody named, I think, 'Mira Bai' in Miami, and she was very much a gopie, but I don't recall her as tall and blonde, but rather short and dark. I recall she was considered a security risk by the honchos and would do things like try to sleep in the front yard of the residence, was always in the front few rows at programs, and ran after Maharaji at every possible opportunity. Although she was in the ashram, she would scam to go to programs all over the world, even though she wasn't supposed to. I know she got in trouble for that, and I know Maharaji considered her a pest. [At least that's what I was told.] Does this sound like the same person? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jul 09, 1998 at 19:00:04 (EST)
From: TD Email: None To: JW Subject: Mira Bai Message: This is interesting because I know there is still this one woman who is at EVERY single event wherever it is around the world, and she is considered a bongo! She was pointed out to me at a recent event. Nobody can understand how she can afford to do it. There were rumours of prostitution, but they were rumours! Hey, is Mira Bai a common name somewhere - cause what about Mirabai that posted here? TD Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jul 09, 1998 at 21:25:55 (EST)
From: G's mom Email: None To: JW Subject: Mira Bai Message: I remember hearing this too but I do not remember meeting her. She was something of a legend. And had the bongo label securely affixed. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jul 10, 1998 at 00:23:57 (EST)
From: pam Email: None To: G's mom Subject: Mira Bai Message: She was tall and blond and a little heavy. A loving, kind person. The letter posed in the beginning asked if it is true that she died? I would like to know too. Even though she was a little crazy I have a soft spot in my heart for her. I really wonder what happened to her. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jul 10, 1998 at 09:54:56 (EST)
From: KK Email: None To: G's mom Subject: Mira Bai Message: I think there are a couple of people involved here. The one I knew well fits the short and dark description. Her name was/is? RUMIYANA. She was a Bulgarian national based in Australia. She travelled the world, camped at the residences etc etc. Most easily recalled when seen again. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jul 10, 1998 at 13:24:04 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: KK Subject: YES, Thats' Her Message: RUMIYANA -- Yes, that's the premie who lived in Miami and did things like camp out in the front yard of the residence. She was short and dark. So, that isn't Mira Bai, as I guess she was taller and blonde. Thanks for clearing that up. Regarding Rumiyana, I recall she got kicked out of the ashram for going to some program overseas without permission. When she came back, she asked me about getting back in the ashram because I was community coordinator. I told her it was out of my hands -- and she had to speak with the initiator who was in charge of the ashrams. Guess who that was, Jim: Gary Ockendon. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jul 11, 1998 at 04:31:51 (EST)
From: Runamok Email: lotuspower@aol.com To: G's mom Subject: Mira Bai Message: To anybody talking about Mirabai, Yes I knew her. But only until around '81, my last actual possible active days in DLM. That was in New York City. It's sad to hear about a suicide, but I can't say surprising. She brought alot of her own unhappiness into the mix, but Rawatt not dealing with her is a sign of the Jonestown dimension of our premie experiences. Is the suicide story a verified and when did it happen? There was a cast of characters in the New York scene, very edgy in terms of on and off the DLM bus at the same time around late 70's & early 80's. She fit into it well. There was a street subculture to the premies there at the time, pretty rough. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jul 11, 1998 at 14:27:00 (EST)
From: Judex Email: None To: Mark Subject: The Garden of Good and Evil Message: Gee this stuff all sounds almost like 'judgement day', doesn't it? When all the tales are told ,when the truth comes out, for better or worse? Like the name of that book/movie 'Midnight in the Garden of Good and Evil'. There was a brilliant moment in the film when the title is explained - at midnight in the garden there is a moment when you are exactly half way between good and evil. Exactly there. Like for all of us in real life, probably. Always balancing there? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jul 09, 1998 at 09:47:35 (EST)
From: Becky Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Thank you Scott Message: for your support and intelligent, balanced understand. As I said to Jim, I prefer not to throw out the baby with the bathwater. How about making a documentary about M? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jul 09, 1998 at 13:43:06 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Becky Subject: Becky? Message: As I said to Jim, I prefer not to throw out the baby with the bathwater. How would this apply to your choosing to invest your faith in something like Islam? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jul 10, 1998 at 06:43:14 (EST)
From: Becky Email: None To: Jim Subject: Jim? Message: Jim, I'm really tired of this discussion. It could go on forever. Purity is in many things, corruption is in many things. I know you care, but you are being as dictatorial as the worst mullah. do you think the Buddha too was some prat who claimed to be enlightened? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jul 10, 1998 at 13:39:41 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Becky Subject: Jim? Message: Jim, I'm really tired of this discussion. It could go on forever. Purity is in many things, corruption is in many things. I know you care, but you are being as dictatorial as the worst mullah. Becky, You're tired of the discussion, yet you ask me another question to keep it going. What's so tiring? I thought we were just getting started. How many words did it take to get you INTO Islam? How many will it take to get you out? Naw, you don't care. Well, you kind of care. ... Do you care? Do you care about the TRUTH of the matter, like the actual, real-life history of the man? I'm still looking for stuff for you. In fact.... I just realized what I'll send you. Give me a few days. Meanwhile, Becky, what a senseless thing to say, that I'm as 'dictatorial as the worst mullah'! Now why would you say something like that? Say I got together some historical stuff and presented you with the non-religious history of Mohammed? Say it showed that he was just another deluded guy. Would that be 'dictatorial'? I'm just curious. Want to know what kind of character I'm building, eh? do you think the Buddha too was some prat who claimed to be enlightened? Yeah, as a matter of fact. Why? You want to argue about him too? Sure, you go first. Or maybe we don't have to. Are you saying that ther are all these guys who claimed to be great 'men of God' (or, in Buddha's case, great 'men of nothingness') and that, therefore, SOME of them had to be telling the truth? Is that why you ask about Buddha? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jul 09, 1998 at 09:33:21 (EST)
From: Richard Email: r2harris@plymouth.ac.uk To: Everyone Subject: Why are we here...still? Message: Jim and Everyone, I think this is an excellent idea for a new thread so I'll start it off. Therapy I spent 26 years doing or covering up this stuff and I have to admit that I can't undo it on my own. It will not just go away by itself and seems to still affect parts of my thinking and motivation in a negative way. Who else would I want to share it with apart from you guys? (I tried finding counselling, to no avail). Friendship I really like you guys and you never call round at inconvenient moments or want to borrow stuff. Payback Sure, why not. Responsibility After all the people I dissed as a super-service-premie I owe it to them to make some sort of effort as reparation. I would have appreciated it (still would Maharaji). A Hand-Up People coming out of the land of myths and legends (expect a large outpouring soon) will need a place to go, somewhere to start from. I recently had my first tentative email contact as a result of the White Pages (hi there Nick) and would like to be there for others as you guys have been for me. Old Friendships Renewed I had a few really good buddies way back when (both before and after k) but Maharaji has this happy knack of getting in between people. It would be really good to say hi again and, maybe, start from scratch. That'll do for starters. regards Richard Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jul 09, 1998 at 10:11:27 (EST)
From: John Email: None To: Richard Subject: You said it! Message: In total agreement! Great minds think alike, right? One thing I learn more and more is just how cool communication is. I think in fact, (drum roll please), it may just be THE PURPOSE OF THIS HUMAN LIFE!!!!! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jul 09, 1998 at 15:59:52 (EST)
From: Selena Email: None To: Richard Subject: Are you psychic?? Message: In my insomnia last night, I almost got up and posted the same message! And almost word for word. Of course I can't prove that but it's true. The thing that had made me want to start the thread was that I have been questioning myself and my identity here. This medium has brought up stuff I thought I had been rid of. rather dark and sick stuff. This isn't the falut of people here, it's just me and my weirdness and a new way to communicate that stirred up things. And so I had been lying awake thinking of all the positives to try to balance things. And I came up with the same ones you did! Except for renewing old friendships, but that's typical of me. I was even going to post this when I got to work but I had a weird dizzy spell and ended up at the doctor. I'd better stop here before I get 'newage'. Thank you Richard. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jul 10, 1998 at 12:00:06 (EST)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Selena Subject: Are you psychic?? Message: Dear Selena, How are you dear? Feeling better I hope. I think your thinking of ways to balance the negatives with positives is great, very healthy, I'd say. We can just communicate that new age stuff through mental tellapathy or the less psychic email. :) Thinking of you and hoping you are enjoying your new gradma status! Love you, Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jul 10, 1998 at 11:54:52 (EST)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Richard Subject: Why are we here...still? Message: Dear Richard, Great post! I also agree with all of it including finding friends but I haven't yet. My memory isn't the best, if you hadn't noticed and I really only remember 1st names for the most part and hoped some people would find me through my journey entry. Some people have contacted me because they knew the premie house I lived in in W. Orange, NJ but I didn't know them. Bobby is one of them so it was good to hear from him anyway and begin a rapport and just recently a lurker emailed me for a similar reason, didn't know him either but will I assume. Luckily I didn't need therapy from my years with BM but I needed it anyway and think it is a useful tool. Friendship-that's a big one. My friends in my physical world think I am nutty but I do love you all and even talk about you all to them as if you were, cause you are a real part of my life and who I am now, thank you all for that! A Hand Up - that is why I stayed here in the begining once I saw the hurt BM had caused to so many I wanted to be supportive of those getting out or thinking of it, those who weren't in yet and those who've been hurt and hurting for a long time, like you Richard. I knew your wife was ill but didn't know you had health problems as well. I wish you well, maybe you could take some of JW's tips and maybe he'd give you some more to lift your energy. I am afraid that when I'm done working 70/week after doing it for 8 months that I am in for a BIG crash and will be looking here for help and support I'm sure. Love you all and thanks for this thread Richar, Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jul 11, 1998 at 05:36:02 (EST)
From: seymour Email: None To: Richard Subject: Why are we here...still? Message: Well said, Richard. I posted a while ago questioning the purpose of the site and, although I still have a few doubts about such things as the narrowness of discussion topics( at least we can leave room for doubt in our minds these days ) I agree with most of your conclusions - especially 'Responsibility' as I still cringe at the memory of some of the 'satsangs' I gave and as I coerced a few friends and aquaintances into getting knowledge I feel that now at least I am contributing to helping those who feel they would like to escape from a conditioned 'belief trap'. Also 'Friendship' - I feel very much at home with many of the good folk on this forum and it is nice to have someone to chat to. I feel that another important aspect of all this is showing the many other directions/lifestyles that can be taken up after knowledge. The feeling that we made a mistake by practising knowledge for however many years is not a nice one and it is good to have some support for our continued search for the truth and meaning behind our short existence. Cheers Seymour Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jul 11, 1998 at 09:35:27 (EST)
From: Judex Email: None To: seymour Subject: Why are we here...still? Message: Yes I agree with what you say Seymour. One part of this for me as well as some of the others mentioned is finding a new direction after having no direction but infinity. It intrigued me for a while when I first came here as it seemed everyone had degrees. I asked them if they were so intelligent because of practicing knowledge! I thought practicing it was supposed to make people clear and conscious. Not so indeed. But that seems to be one direction which seems to have benefitted many people here (especially those who left while still young?) The more I think about the hierarchy of knowledge the sicker I feel. The wealthy, the snobby premies, the international jet setter types - one of whom virtually stole an magazine out of my hand once that I was about to buy - becasue it was the last copy and he was from overseas. He really won that one - what an impressive man he was. I like some premies but the whole scene was quite nauseating. The scene here is totally different. But if anyone tries to snatch a post off my screen, I'll yell this time! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jul 09, 1998 at 08:39:27 (EST)
From: RR Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Advice needed. Message: Hi, I need some advice. After well over 20 years involvement at every level with Maharaji, I came out of a program with him last month with an incredibly strong feeling, 'This is a cult. I want out.' This 'seed of liberation' has been germinating ever since, but I'm moving into unfamiliar territory, both in myself and in my relationships. I don't know how, or whether, to discuss this with my friends, and my partner, who have also been heavily involved over the same period. Any advice will be gratefully received. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jul 09, 1998 at 09:35:33 (EST)
From: Katie Email: None To: RR Subject: Advice needed. Message: Dear RR - It's very difficult to give someone in your situation advice, because it is very hard to deal with partners and long-time friends that are still devoted premies when you are starting to feel like an EX-premie. I didn't have to go through this, but there are people on the site who have gone through it recently, and I hope they will tell you their experiences. The only advice that I can give you is to try and clarify what you are feeling within yourself before you talk to other people. I would personally find it very difficult NOT to tell my partner how I was feeling. I am not sure about friends - it would depend on how close I was to them and how much I trusted them. I hope you will read (if you haven't already), the 'Breaking Free' section and some of the 'Journeys' (autobiographical stories) sections of this site. See the links at the top of this page - 'Journeys' is under 'Ex-Changes'. Also 'Confessions of an Ex-Instructor' and the Bob Mishler interview (from 1979 but still pertinent.) Take care and hang in there, Katie Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jul 09, 1998 at 09:45:23 (EST)
From: RT Email: ommmm To: RR Subject: Advice needed. Message: Welcome back to the humans! The sub-standard worldly folks who somehow manage to make the civilization hum! I was in 24 years, so you must be smarter than I! (1974-1998) 24 years is 24 lost years. However my career placed me in out of the way towns where there was no contacts, So I in fact started to wean off the whole trip in 1993, and thence part-timed it to now, cold turkey May 10, 98. So for me what works is work! Stay busy, get a lot of sleep, eat well, and no contact with the P’s-(to discuss this web site) I found in all 3 cases, P’s disturbed by the info. BUT I did a good deed and turned an aspirant away, who is grateful for the truth. When I feel the need, I practise for 20 minutes. But the Perfect Webmaster BrianJI set up this resource and here is where I direct you, oh seeker. You have found the WebSite that Prevents Truth Decay! All of your questions will be answered on this web site. Seek and it shall click! Warm regards, RT PS: I hope you like funny songs. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jul 09, 1998 at 10:05:04 (EST)
From: Brian Email: brian@ex-premie.org To: RT Subject: Correction Message: But the Perfect Webmaster BrianJI set up this resource... Small point perhaps, but important to new readers/posters: This website is currently maintained by myself with help from Katie. It was set up and expanded under 2 former webmasters - Our Founder and D@vid Sterling. Both put in a lot of time and effort and deserve full credit for it. Left big shoes to fill... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jul 09, 1998 at 17:44:24 (EST)
From: RT Email: o my To: Brian Subject: I stand Correction Fluid Message: Thanks for the correction but NOW there's White Liquid Paper marks all over my screen! What was that word? Huh? Who is the Founder, and may I get him to autograph my baraghan? He and D@vid Sterling will one day have a song written about them. Thanks so much! Have a good day - my treat. RT Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jul 09, 1998 at 20:19:15 (EST)
From: Mark Email: None To: RT Subject: I stand Correction Fluid Message: TD, RT ! MasterBerator Supreme. Amid the ruins of De-Vote-es, Our Puntheist is on the scene . . . for Suess, the goose ; and Nash: in short, Cash ; but Rt's grail is beyond the pale' and beyond his nom-de-plume . . . Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jul 11, 1998 at 00:31:24 (EST)
From: RT Email: mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm To: Mark Subject: I stand Correction Fluid 3 Message: Beyond-anander Sad guru slander, free to type: He is hype. Your journey's end started my mend your Common Sense is Mark Of Excellance! thx!! RT Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jul 11, 1998 at 01:14:36 (EST)
From: Gail Email: None To: RT Subject: I stand Correction Fluid 3 Message: I'm smiling. I am also wondering why I don't go to bed but I'm glued to this screen. I am vacillating between the Guru Papers and this. The weirdness is happening again. A premie dropped by tonight. I drove him near the satsang hall. On route, we talked about the light technique. Suddenly, BLINDED BY THE LIGHT blared on the radio. Go figure! I really don't want to give up on the idea of a cosmic joker. The song played to inspire him to attend to his master's bidding and to remind me that I had been blinded. Fringe premies, whom I have not really spoken to in years, are coming out of the woodwork. I wave the web printouts but they just don't want to read them. MJ is planting little weeds (seeds). This web satsang is the weed-killer. Sorry for rambling. ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jul 11, 1998 at 11:35:18 (EST)
From: RT Email: no, but here's a card To: Gail Subject: I stand Correction Fluid 4 Message: Hi Gail, you're so zweet in your zleep. Just say know! Hand them a card...be silent...let them evolve into the search. You could say 'Seek and ye shall click!' warmly, RT Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jul 09, 1998 at 09:51:01 (EST)
From: Richard Email: r2harris@plymouth.ac.uk To: RR Subject: Advice needed. Message: Hi RR, it's good to hear from you. The best piece of advice I can give you off the cuff is to read the site for a while, particularly the posts on this page. This will give you an idea of what is going on. I am only one of many ex-premies who post here and ex-change views/information with other ex's and premies too. I can understand that you find it difficult to talk to your friends and family, me too, even after 26 years. This site is very dynamic, lots of differing views, but the people here are fair and sympathetic and will make you welcome. Maybe you'd like to read a bit before posting but if not, how did you come to find us? What made you feel that EV was becoming a cult or have you felt that for some time? Talk soon. regards Richard Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jul 09, 1998 at 11:29:26 (EST)
From: RR Email: None To: Richard Subject: Advice needed. Message: Hi Richard, Thanks for your (and RT and Katie's) prompt replies. I've already spent a few days looking around the site, reading the archives etc. So I think I know what happens here. I've felt EV was a cult for quite a few years now. In the 80s, after the closure of the ashrams, and when the Krishna crown was put in the wardrobe, I was confident that Maharaji was 'maturing' and taking us out of the 'Hindu legacy' left by his mother. It all felt healthy and I was right behind it, 'Knowledge is wonderful. I want to help tell people about it.' Besides, even if it was a cult, I didn't have to buy in to it. I could still have my personal realtionship with Maharaji. At the same time, I could see that the 'mindlessness' of many premies, and the impression people got when they came along, of a 'cult' was still putting people off. When I expressed this attitude in the things I was doing for the organisation, I gradually became marginalised. Looking a little closer, I realised nothing had changed. At some point, I read a book by a professor of pyschology, Anthony Storr, called 'Feet of Clay. A Study of Gurus.' This helped me look at things in a way I felt comfortable with. Ie- not 'God on Earth' or a 'Total Ripoff Fake', but something, somewhere in between. Things came to a head at the program I attended in June. Many of my friends spend lots of time with Maharji, and when I met them, I was amazed how stupid these intelligent, sensitive people became, when they talked about him and what he is doing. Most of the people in the audience behaved like fourteen year olds at a 'Boyzone' concert. The videos were naff, the music worse. This leads to the crux of the whole matter, which is the way Maharaji is treated by the people around him. He is the Creator of the Universe, we are unworthy fools who know nothing. If he is the Creator, his poems are divine, his music is straight from heaven, and if he says 'One and one make two and a half', then indeed they do. Every decision must be made by him, and whatever he does is perfect. Anyone questioning any of this is 'in love with their ego and missing perfection', and definitely making a bad career move. So, to try and sum up my answer to your question Richard, it's been a gradual process, over many years. It reminds me of a chemistry lesson, when one liquid was gradually dripped into another. Nothing much happened, until the critical drop went in, then the whole liquid changed colour. I've coagulated. RR Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jul 09, 1998 at 11:52:33 (EST)
From: Jerry Email: None To: RR Subject: Advice needed. Message: Just reason it out. I've found that when I use my reason, it steers me away from Maharaji at every venue. Explore this site. I'm pretty new to it myself. I've found it to be a goldmine of support in weaning myself off of Maharaji. It's also an appeal to REASON that I've never experienced from Maharaji or his devotees. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jul 09, 1998 at 20:36:08 (EST)
From: Gail Email: None To: RR Subject: Advice to RR Message: I have been shuffling off to all the video programs, going to see him, and making donations directly from my credit cards for years. The shine had long since left. MJ, HIMSELF, warned me to stay off the internet at the May 8-10 program in Miami. I accessed it on June 9 (see my drivel under letters to MJ). By June 10, I was asking these fine folks on the net many questions. I am not cured, but feel sooo much better. I'm sure you will too. All the best in your journey out. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jul 09, 1998 at 01:09:02 (EST)
From: pam Email: None To: Jim and anyone else Subject: LG letter and KK's posts Message: I missed what looks to have been an interesting letter from Linda Gross and KK's posts, to which people are still responding (from July 3?). I went into the archives (6/28 - 7/5) and couldn't find LG's letter or KK's posts. What am I doing wrong? Do I need to go further back? The recent discussion about Jagdeo was particularly interesting. Thanks for your help. Who is KK anyway? Someone who has been in the 'inner circle'? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jul 09, 1998 at 03:25:28 (EST)
From: TD Email: None To: pam Subject: LG letter and KK's posts Message: It's in the Inactive Index, down the bottom under: Letter from Linda Gross Regards, TD Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jul 09, 1998 at 23:35:52 (EST)
From: pam Email: None To: TD Subject: LG letter and KK's posts Message: Thanks. I did find it yesterday after all. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jul 09, 1998 at 00:32:16 (EST)
From: ashamed to admit Email: None To: Everyone Subject: 'it's all about money' Message: So if it was all about money for the Guru than one can look at the Mala dancing in a new light. Sorta like a stripper. I have to wonder though what WAS that all about. Remember how he looked a little shy and embarrassed when he was up there in that get up? I would say I feel sorry for him but I don't. But if I did I would think someone who had a little displaced hostility said to him.....'Lord, ya' look really hot in that outfit. You simply must wear it for the premies.' And then snickered as he danced away? That was one instance when he looked more foolish than the premies. Well maybe not. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jul 09, 1998 at 01:13:52 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: ashamed to admit Subject: 'it's all about money' Message: Yes, as I said below, I felt embarrassed for him when he did that. You know that sinking feeling you get when someone is making a ridiculous fool of themselves? I tried hard to overlook it, but I never really did. I was his devotee at the time. I wanted him to succeed and not look ridiculous. I think he is like other megalomanics in that he has zero self-awareness. He just doesn't have a clue how he comes across, nor does he notice that his inconsistencies and lack of integrity is so transparent. This is likely the result of having been treated as god from age 0 and having sycophants around him who never give him negative feedback. Perhaps we on the forum could do him a favor and have a session with him and give him all kinds of negative feedback, no, I mean constructive criticism. He would be so much better for it. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jul 09, 1998 at 07:24:13 (EST)
From: Brian Email: brian@ex-premie.org To: JW Subject: 'it's all about money' Message: Perhaps we on the forum could do him a favor and have a session with him and give him all kinds of negative feedback, no, I mean constructive criticism. He would be so much better for it. I'm willing to do my part, JW. Really, Maharaji, you look like a total idiot. Not only when you manage to blunder into the limelight of the press, but even when you forfeit the entire Internet to those of us who are embarrassed for you and the premies who still haven't gotten it. Quit now and get some serious therapy. Oh, yeah... and GIVE BACK THE MONEY. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jul 11, 1998 at 13:03:14 (EST)
From: Judex Email: None To: Brian Subject: 'it's all about money' Message: AND THANKS FOR PUBLICIZING OUR FORUM TO THE PREMIE WORLD BY TELLING THEM TO STAY OFF IT. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Jul 08, 1998 at 22:12:56 (EST)
From: G's mom Email: None To: KK Subject: my questions for KK.. Message: Dear KK, Thank you so much for your posts. If you get a chance and have the inclination I have a lot of questions about how things were on your side of the curtain. If any of them are things you would rather not discuss that is fine with me. But I'll ask anyway. When you left I am curious about a more detailed description of what you said and he said and those around you said. I find this simple acceptance very interesting. Do you have any special insights on his relationships with his wife and children. I cannot fathom being married to the 'Lord of the Universe', I find the whole concept of that marraige so bizzare. Can you shed any light upon that? And I have often wondered about the kids. Kids that do not have limits in my experience do not do well. Were they taught not to 'pull the premies tails'? I cannot imagine what life would be like for these kids. Do you sense as they grew up and some I hear went to college they had trouble dealing in a world where they were not little gods? If you have been corresponding with folks here you may have heard that several ex's who were young premies, myself included, were molested or attemped molested by Jagdeo. I reported this and I am quite sure it got to Rawat. It sounds like he still had free rein to travel around the world molesting children even after this. That would have been around 1978 or so I reported it. What happened to me was not as terrible as some of the stories I have heard, but it shook me up very much. Some people are more into amateur analysis than others but any insights you have into his psychology would be intriguing to me. The blatant greed, even though we knew that, seemed so much more in a crisp perspective when you describe it up close and personal. When you say he was freaked by the responsibilty of the premies in the ashram, was he plagued by intermittant bouts of conscience? And finally, my perception is he is a man quite obsessed with himself and his image, I imagine he must even if he hates what he sees, be driven to read what we write here. Do you think that is likely? Again KK, I know I have given you quite an assignment, but I'll bet most of my friends here would be just as interested in these questions as I am. Thanks! G's mom ( stands for Guenther's mom ...he is my 18 year old son who posted here once because his mom was too embarrassed to explain her past) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Jul 08, 1998 at 22:26:36 (EST)
From: Rick Email: None To: G's mom Subject: my questions for KK.. Message: Also, any info relating to maharaji's drinking (i.e., smell of alcohol on breath, witnessing drinking, etc.). Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Jul 08, 1998 at 23:52:29 (EST)
From: VP Email: None To: Katie Subject: my questions for KK..Katie Message: Katie, If KK answers this thread, would you send that one post to me via email? I am having trouble getting into the archives, but I do NOT want to miss this one, if possible. Thanks to you and the fourm elves...See you in a few short hours and everyone else in about a week or so. :) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jul 09, 1998 at 09:33:26 (EST)
From: KK Email: None To: G's mom Subject: my questions for KK.. Message: G'day, First of all, I don't know everything. I know what I saw, felt and directly experienced. Let's run through your thoughts: My departure was high drama. But only because a tour was imminent and I threw a spanner in the works by resigning and the whoile thing was called off. The premies in Australia were vicious because they were jealous. Padarthanand was in the background inciting everyone into politics about who was in charge. He was in the soup with MJ because of his sexual indiscretions. The hardest thing to deal with was him and the premies - the rank and file. Dettmers told me repeatedly that MJ really liked me and apprecaited all my hard work. He thought I was super smart. I knew I was smart without them telling me. I was a bright imaginative child and I'd always kept my spirit alive to the world even in the four walls of the cult. When I met with MJ last, I told him straight that I was having trouble with him. Essentially I said that I was having a clash between my identity and activity as a premie/hancho and my integrity as a human being. That I couldn't keep raising money by misleading people, travelling the Pacific raising expectations about him to get $$$$, putting up with sexually deviant mahatmas and nakedly ambitious premies who were empire building at his behest. I was pretty firm, fair and diplomatic. I had learned to speak Hindi. MJ liked that a lot. I still speak Hindi and actually I speak it much better now than then because I've taken lots of holidays in Fiji and India. MJ was not about to take issue with me when I was in his office, in his home, telling him the truth to his face after so many yaers together, so close and so warmly. It was a very human discussion. He was concerned about my family. I now spend my life talking to hardened criminals, running their cases in courts and I also find them including murderers quite easy to talk to on a truth basis. So it was no big deal. MJ was never the argumentative type. I MADE IT A WORKABLE EXIT, I TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR KEEPING HIM IN LINE THROUGHOUT THIS MESSY TRANSITION. I am deeply saddened to hear that you suffered at the hands of JAGDEO. HE WAS WIERD. He never tried anything with me or anyone I knew but he was extremeley demanding and deceitful, e.g he was always borrowing x-rated Hindi videos from Indian video stores in Fiji. He was always suspect but I did not know the extent of it. Please let me know where the ex-premies are talking about it on the net, if possible, thanks. Now Padarthanand, there's a person with sexual hangups.... No conscience plaguing as far as I could gather. Definiteley not. No, I doubt he'd read this. He's too self-involved. I wouldn't read a premie page either, not interested. You must appreciate that he is totally self-involved. He wouldn't give a s....t about us. Just in case, hey MJ, I saw through you. Remember Malibu, April, 1986 - Taa Taa.... Talk to you soon, again. I only knew Wadi-Sue and Hansi and not too well. They weren't around much as far as my work was concerned. I never related to Maralyn, although she was always pleasant. Fairly involved with her Dad and kids. In the latter years, it was a marriage of convenience, for sure. She started the whole ambition thing going for the kids when she went to university and got a life. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jul 09, 1998 at 09:46:21 (EST)
From: Katie Email: None To: KK Subject: Jagdeo Message: Hi KK - Thanks for answering all those questions. Re Jagdeo: we have talked about him on this forum from time to time. G's mom has told her story, and G's mom and I have exchanged long e-mails with another woman who has testified to being sexually abused by him as a very young child. This woman knows several other children - some of who are still premies - that were also abused. The stories are heartbreaking. JW also has written about it being known in Miami that Jagdeo wasn't safe around children. I don't know if any precautions were taken. Several of the premies that posted on here have had a hard time believing that Jagdeo could be a sexual abuser, but we was able to convince some of them that it was or might be true. No one seems to know Jagdeo's current status within EV. It bothers me that an accused child molester might still be out there among premies and their children, and might still have access to children - I think premies should at least be aware of the accusations against him whether they believe them or not. Take care, Katie Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jul 09, 1998 at 09:50:22 (EST)
From: KK Email: None To: Katie Subject: Jagdeo Message: I'll nail him if I see him. I'll also make sure he's brought to the attention of any proper authorities, not divine self appointed authorities. Bas.....rd. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jul 09, 1998 at 10:42:04 (EST)
From: G's mom Email: None To: KK Subject: thanks for your posts Message: Dear KK, I was very pleased to see you took the time to write these answers. The story of your departure is indeed high drama. Jagdeo was a creep. It really bothers me that Rawat had the opportunity to keep children safe from him and did not take it. I remember when I reported it I was even concerned about his kids. I will bet you after he heard about it that Jagdeo was never allowed near his daughters. But the premie daughters, they were still fair game apparently. I guess we can add coward to the Rawat adjectives. I would bet too that mine was not the only report he got of it. He had to be like this every country he went to. In fact the woman Katie refers to is on another continent. We should try to get the two of you in touch. Thanks again for your contribution. I find it very gratifying to read your posts. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jul 10, 1998 at 09:58:11 (EST)
From: KK Email: None To: G's mom Subject: thanks for your posts Message: No worries. I'll be out of town until 18 July. Talk to you and everyone else then hopefully. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jul 09, 1998 at 13:53:23 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: KK Subject: Jagdeo Message: Just one correction to what Katie reported. G's mom said she and others reported to the DLM authorities, and even to someone at the residence about Jagdeo sexually abusing little girls. I knew nothing about Jagdeo's pedophila. This bothers me, because he was in Miami quite a lot in 1979 and 1980 when I was coordinator there, and no one ever told me to take any precautions concerning him, and he seemed to have free reign in the community. I've had some pangs of regret that I might have inadvertently allowed him access to children when I could have prevented. It was my experience in M's organization that such problems were never diretly dealt with. They were shoved under the carpet. Like the Fakiranand/pie/hammer incident in Detroit, and like when Mahatma Parlokanand was found sexually molesting little boys. Parlokanand WAS defrocked, but I actually lived in an ashram with him after that for awhile, and, again, I don't think any precautions to protect children were taken. Now, Padarthanand, I'd love to hear about his sexual 'hangups' the little jerk. Care to describe them? I'm sure we are all ears. The problem with these 'holy men' is that they could use their supposed spiritual advancement as lures to get wide-eyed premies, or their children, into their clutches. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jul 09, 1998 at 14:15:56 (EST)
From: Gerry Email: None To: JW Subject: Parlokanand Message: JW. Parlokanand a child molester? This is the first I've heard this. You say he was defrocked? And then lived in an ashram? I recieved K from him. Yuck. Any other details? Also he seemed really young for a Mahatma. I wonder what the criteria was for choosing them. Any idea? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jul 09, 1998 at 14:22:20 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: Gerry Subject: Parlokanand Message: I also received knowledge from Parlokanad. He was touring the US and it was found out that he was sexually molesting little boys in various communities. I thought this was common knowledge, since I was a peon premie at the time and even I knew. I was living in San Antonio and Parlokanand was sent there, having been defrocked, or at least he wore civilian clothes and they made him work at the premie carwash and he wasn't allowed to give satsang. Eventually, I think he got sent back to India, but I'm not sure. The point I was making was that I don't recall any precautions taken to prevent Parlokanad having access to children. By the way, there were a few PREMIES in the San Antonio 'City of Love and Light' who ALSO were molesting little boys. They did it through the 'Big Brother' program in San Antonio. But that is another story. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jul 09, 1998 at 15:02:37 (EST)
From: Gerry Email: None To: JW Subject: Parlokanand and story (long) Message: This is sad. How warped to take advantage of defenseless kids! I thought he was this high, blissful enlightened guy. I had no contact with premies after Millenium '73, so I didn't hear any of this stuff. Good god! Here's a story I wrote to Katie: Post Millenium Adventure I did spend a night in Houston city jail in 73 after Millenium. I had returned to Arizona where I was living at the time (after the great event)and jumped a freight train in Tucson and rode it all the way across Texas into Houston. Great trip. I was with a premie from Joplin, MO, BTW, and we had individual 'suites' on the train. These were pick-up trucks with the keys and gas in them so we could start them up at night (Nov cool but not cold) and stay warm and listen to the radio. We got real comfy by the time we hit Houston. The train crew knew we were aboard and would warn us to stay down through certain stations. Someone in Houston, (a good citizen) saw us on the train and called the police. They were watching for us and grabbed us as soon as we jumped off the train (which we did while it was still moving). I had my guitar padded in the case with a piece of red velvet which turned out to be a mini-skirt. The cops said 'which one of you boys are a transvestite?' in a thick Texas drawl and were thoroughly abusive in front of the Pacific RR bulls. As soon as we were in the cop car headed for downtown Houston, the driver turns around and says 'hell we'd like to just let you boys out at the corner, but the Pacific RR guys are real pricks and will demand a follow up report'. A 100% turn about in attitude! They were actually decent guys and not that much older than we were. At the houston police headquarters, they took my friend to homicide because he had a bowie knife (for real) and me to narcotics because I had a small bag of golden seal powder. It was Sunday and the chemist was off so about 10 pm they took us to separate cells. Went throught the whole routine: belt off, empty pockets, they even took off my glasses! Guess they thought I might kill myself for riding the freights. The cell I was in had four steel bunks with thin mattresses and a single rough blanket. My bunk, the last open one, was stripped of all the 'amenities'. My new 'roomates' were two tough looking hispanic guys and one large black man. Thank god they were sleeping. Here I was this skinny white kid who couldn't see past his nose! I decided they could keep the blanket. It was a definitely eerie feeling to hear those metal bars shut, let me tell you! Then, at three o'clock that morning they came calling my name and my buddy's name (who was in a different cell) and let us out. No charges, no more questions, just out the door in the middle of the night in downtown Houston. If my mother could have seen me then! I knew a real sweetie of a lady I had met in Houston. For some reason, she just LOVED me! We stayed a few days and then she took us to Dallas to hitch on the freeway east. One ride out of Dallas, I caught on with two guys who had just mustered out of the army. My job was to roll joints and smoke them with the driver while the other one slept in the back of the van. I didn't have a dime and they bought me all my meals. They took me right to door of my parent's house in Pennsylvania! My reception there was decidedly cool. My father made me take all my clothes off in the garage and take a shower before they would talk to me. But that's another story and this is already getting too long. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jul 09, 1998 at 15:18:07 (EST)
From: Katie Email: None To: Gerry Subject: Gerry off topic Message: BTW Gerry, I liked that story a lot, and so did my husband. He has one to tell you about riding the trains from Savannah to New Orleans (via Rocky Mount, NC). Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jul 09, 1998 at 23:26:03 (EST)
From: Stephen Harris Email: mulcyber@pacbell.net To: Katie Subject: Katie off topic thyroid inacti Message: Answered thyroid question which is inactive. Don't know much more. Synthroid vs. natural is controversial. Even the type of kelp (Mediterranean) vs others. Regards - Stephen Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jul 09, 1998 at 23:36:01 (EST)
From: Katie Email: None To: Stephen Harris Subject: Katie off topic thyroid inacti Message: Hi Stephen and thanks. I think I did see your post, but maybe this is another one. Anyway, I appreciate it, although my thyroid is probably irredeemable at this point. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jul 09, 1998 at 23:46:44 (EST)
From: Gail Email: None To: Katie Subject: Katie off topic-thyroid Message: Check out the thread above on health concerns with premies. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jul 10, 1998 at 01:03:09 (EST)
From: Gerry Email: None To: Stephen Subject: off topic-thyroid Message: Stephen, Caught the thread. Thanks for the kelp info. Will definitely try it as I am borderline at this point. It is genetic, however, mother brother and sister have it. Regards, Gerry Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jul 09, 1998 at 15:26:54 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Gerry Subject: So, who was the transvestite? Message: Gerry, Your story has Mr. Mind written all over it. In fact, di you actually get Mr. Mind to write it for you? (I am eating tofu). The guy in Houston, in case you didn't know, was actually Maharaji, MANIFESTING -- I kid you not -- for the whole afternoon. He manifested in that very expensive shopping centre they have in downtown Houston ( can't remember the name), he manifested out by the airport and he manifested at a good Mexican restaurant for lunch. I guess he must have manifested by the railway station on his way to lunch. That's the only way this makes sense. Now WHY he did that? I won't even begin to go near that one. Like Chris says, this is a big dilemna tht's very deep but -- don't forget -- simple. Happy to help. (Turn the book AROUND, Gerry.) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jul 09, 1998 at 15:35:48 (EST)
From: Meester Mind Email: None To: Jim Subject: So, who was the transvestite? Message: BM? I can't stop laughing. I'm supposed to be presentable for a bank loan interview and I've got drool all down my only white shirt... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jul 10, 1998 at 00:27:44 (EST)
From: Scott T. Email: None To: Gerry Subject: Parlokanand and story (long) Message: Gerry: That's a great story. I can relate. Strange times indeed! -Scott Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jul 10, 1998 at 12:57:15 (EST)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Gerry Subject: Parlokanand and story (long) Message: Dear Gerry, GREAT story! I hope if you and Patty come east soon that you will not be riding the rails and jumping off a moving train in PA. :) Love, Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jul 10, 1998 at 14:03:54 (EST)
From: Gerry Email: None To: Robyn Subject: Parlokanand and story (long) Message: Thanks Robyn, I remember you said you liked stories so I decided to post this one with you in mind, hoping others might get a chuckle out of it also. Hopefully I've come up in the world financially (but not by much though) and will be able to fly on my next trip east. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jul 09, 1998 at 18:13:58 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: JW Subject: A Fly on the Wall Message: One additional story came out about the Parlokanad perversity. Around the time Parlokanad got busted there was a story going around the premies that Parlokanad got recalled to MJ and MJ had a meeting with him and others and he got defrocked, or something like that. Anyhow, the story was that Parlokanad couldn't figure out how MJ knew what he had done, and then he said something like: 'Oh, yes, the fly on the window.' To which MJ said, 'yes.' The scuttlebut was that MJ had turned himself into a fly and was in the room watching Parlokanad bugger little boys and that's how he knew, and we accepted this because, of course, MJ was 'all-knowing' and 'all-powerful.' I recall being told this story by and initiator in about 1975 or so. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jul 10, 1998 at 10:05:19 (EST)
From: KK Email: None To: JW Subject: Jagdeo Message: Bottom line re Padarthanand. Sexual assault of a 26 year old premie causing enduring trauma and emotional damage. Attempted sexual assault of myself around the same time. I reported the incidents directly to MJ. No action taken. Giant cover up. I left the organisation. The rest is sub judice to this day. You're so right about these divine jerks. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jul 10, 1998 at 13:17:35 (EST)
From: JW Email: joger02@aol.com To: KK Subject: OUTRAGEOUS!!! Message: KK, Bottom line re Padarthanand. Sexual assault of a 26 year old premie causing enduring trauma and emotional damage. Attempted sexual assault of myself around the same time. I reported the incidents directly to MJ. No action taken.Giant cover up. I left the organisation. The rest is sub judice to this day. You're so right about these divine jerks. Boy, it just gets more appalling the more that gets revealed. So, Padarthanad, who is currently touring North America trying to rev up interest in Maharaji's programs has sexually assaulted two premies, including you and you personally told Mahararji about it and nothing was done. My question is this: 1. Why isn't Padarthand in jail for comitting sexual assault on at least two people? 2. Why isn't Maharaji in jail for aiding and abetting a sexual predator? 3. Why haven't all the premies in all the communities in North America been warned to keep their distance from Padarthand who has committed sexual assault in the past? 4. Why on earth do premies continue to follow Maharaji when he is obviously a morally bankrupt individual and cares nothing for the safety and security of his followers???? 5. Why does all this continue to surprise me? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jul 10, 1998 at 14:12:15 (EST)
From: KK Email: None To: JW Subject: OUTRAGEOUS!!! Message: He only attempted it with me. (1) No complaint was laid to the police because the victim was pressured to drop the complaint. This is of course a common phenomenon with sexual assault. It happened one monthe before he left Aust for an indefinite period. (2) Because nothing came of 1. (3) Because it's not in the interests of the cult. (4) There are less and less old premies and a higher turnover of new premies. People take a while to sort out the con. It took me 12-3 years. (5) Because you retain some hope that it isn't truly the way it is. I say this with great respect (your idealism is strong which is a great quality). Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jul 10, 1998 at 14:30:02 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: KK Subject: OUTRAGEOUS!!! Message: KK, Thanks. Don't mean to belabor this. But when you say 'assault' do you mean he just 'came on to you' or that he physically attacked you? Please don't feel obligated to describe this. I know it could be difficult. I just wondered what you were referring to when you said 'assault.' Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jul 10, 1998 at 14:39:06 (EST)
From: KK Email: None To: JW Subject: OUTRAGEOUS!!! Message: See alternative communication. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jul 10, 1998 at 23:22:55 (EST)
From: TD Email: thedefector@hotmail.com To: KK Subject: OUTRAGEOUS!!! Message: KK, I've just finished reading this thread and feel absolutely repulsed about what I've learnt about Padarthanand. When I was living with my premie partner, he was in charge of looking after Padarthanand when he came to our city for a visit. He had so much respect for him, because that's who he'd received K from in the 70's. I really had been given the impression that he was one of the more respectable mahatmas. Anyway, my partner went to such incredible lengths and cost to make sure P had the most pleasurable stay, and yet I know he would have had no idea that P was such a deviant. It all makes me feel sick to the stomach. Thanks very much for sharing this stuff with us. Regards, TD PS Are you still living in Oz? Would you be interested in e-mailing me at sometime? My e-mail address is above, and I will understand if you want to keep yours confidential. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Jul 08, 1998 at 19:50:03 (EST)
From: KR '81 Email: stars@uvic.ca To: Everyone Subject: Finally read your comments Message: Sorry I didn't get a chance to respond to all the comments that people gave me when I posted my first message on July 5th entitled Been away! What's Going On? I thought the subject message entitled No Marvin Gaye Lyrics was funny. I'm in school full-time (even this summer) and have a lots of studying to do but I do look forward to talking with ex-premies and current premies in more detail soon. Thanks for all your responses! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Jul 08, 1998 at 16:41:08 (EST)
From: Gail Email: Freedom@gtn.net To: Everyone Subject: Retirements Savings Message: Does anyone out there remember MJ telling us not to bother saving for retirement. He said that today's money will be worthless by the time we retire. He gave this insight into money sometime within the last four years. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Jul 08, 1998 at 16:52:37 (EST)
From: x Email: None To: Gail Subject: Retirements Savings Message: That sure sounds like something bm would say. If he did he is really a hypocrite(what a surprise). I'm sure he's got his retirement carefully planned. What a greedy ass. x Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Jul 08, 1998 at 16:56:35 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Gail Subject: Bullshit, Gail Message: Does anyone out there remember MJ telling us not to bother saving for retirement. He said that today's money will be worthless by the time we retire. He gave this insight into money sometime within the last four years. Gail, This is ridiculous. Sure, I wasn't there, but still I know Maharaji couldn't have said something like that. First, it's probably wrong. Second, he wouldn't have any basis for knowing if it were right or wrong and he's not going to just spout off about something without clearly understanding the matter. That would be completely irresponsible. So what are you saying? That he DIDN'T know that his words would affect all sorts of people who are extremely dependent upon him. Third, that's not the way Maharaji talks. I never heard him use the word 'retire' or even 'retirement'. Now I can see why some of the premies get so incensed. We really are just a bunch of rumour mongers, aren't we? Well, I can't speak for myself but I CAN speak for you, Gail. A little honesty, please? Really! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Jul 08, 1998 at 17:02:22 (EST)
From: Gail Email: None To: Jim Subject: It's true Message: He went on in great detail about how today's money is worthless tomorrow. HE DIDN'T SAY HAND IT OVER. It was in context to false security blankets. SOMEBODY WHO HEARD THIS, HELP ME OUT. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Jul 08, 1998 at 17:06:03 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Gail Subject: Quit shouting!! Message: Gail, My neighbours can hear you. Listen, IF Maharaji said anything like that he'd be despiciable. Give me a break, will ya'? He comes from a good family! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Jul 08, 1998 at 17:14:17 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: Jim Subject: I'd Believe ANYTHING Message: Given my mindset today, I wouldn't be a bit surprised if he said that. He tended to trash the stupid people of the world and all the things they do. Why should saving for retirement be any different? Funny, though, my own retirement account has doubled in the past 3 years, due mostly to the grace of record increases in the stock market. But BM isn't an economist, so how would he have known that? I mean he's just 'all-knowing' that doesn't mean he's not stupid! I also recall in the early 80s he predicted that nuclear war was 'imminent' in front of thousands of people at a program. He did not, however, suggest group suicide at that time. I guess the collapse of the Soviet Union was something he couldn't have predicted, though. Maybe he thought of 'imminent' they way they do in Hindu scripture, which means within the next 200 years. Maybe he didn't say to give your retirement money to him, but wasn't that implied? That's a big source of funds for him to tap into to transfer into those Swiss bank accounts that KK told us about. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Jul 08, 1998 at 17:22:18 (EST)
From: Selena Email: None To: JW Subject: I'd Believe ANYTHING Message: Maybe he meant the y2K stuff? I wasn't there either so who knows. It would be just my luck for it all to fall apart just when I am getting money together! Gail do you know if it WAS in context? NOt that I don't think he is capable of spouting nonsense! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Jul 08, 1998 at 17:26:51 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: Selena Subject: I'd Believe ANYTHING Message: I don't think Y2K problems would have anything to do with the value of money, which is apparently what he was talking about. I think he must have been referring to inflation, but I don't think he's too smart anyway, so who knows? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Jul 08, 1998 at 17:24:15 (EST)
From: Gail Email: None To: Jim Subject: I'd Believe ANYTHING Message: You scared me for a second. I thought I was going to have to move, attend videos incognito, and sign out all the old ones from the last six years (at $5 a pop in Toronto) until I found it. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Jul 08, 1998 at 23:09:12 (EST)
From: bb Email: None To: Gail Subject: It's true Message: I do believe I heard that as well. People would be surprised to find all the opinions he voices during his long speaking. His whole mid-life crises was mentioned in the videos but most folks seem to have missed that also. He says so many sentences that I think we would glaze over during a large part of them. I was a fool that is for sure. But you know, for all the videos you and I watched, rawat never bothered to say any of the things to us that he said in private to his inner circle workers. KK heard some comments out of rawat that I also heard out of the poster -student- . However, WE never heard any of that out of rawat at events. He maintained his pretense to us big time. It's like getting out of prison and being there under false reasons and realizing like J.M. our great soul here on the forum that there is almost NO good that resulted from all that misperception of life that was ladled on us by the pretend lord. good grief. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jul 09, 1998 at 02:17:08 (EST)
From: Barney Email: None To: bb Subject: True INDEED! Message: Yup! I was there. I heard it. It was funny, dark, and arrogant. And IMHO, not good thing to say to such a susceptible audience as a bunch of glassy eyed premies looking for some hope to counterbalance their fucked up lives. Basically, it was in reference to inflation. Yet, certainly he might not understand compounded growth rates and how interest rates always take inflation into account. Sure, if your entire nest egg is in securities and there's a world wide collapse you're gonna be in trouble. And there is always the chance of that happening. But... Where the hell are ya gonna be if you've followed the lifestyle the he prescribed and blew away what might have been your prime career building and earning years and then continue to follow his advice by attending every program all over the world and not even considering saving for retirement? You're gonna be living in a cardboard box dumpster diving for food at age 78! Me, I feel fucked. That whole bullshit philosphy helped influence me to make a lot of stupid choices thinking that nothing really mattered and the God would see my through. At age 43 I ain't got nuthin'. Yeah, I'm making money now, but... I can't afford a house in this market, I'm constantly at risk for being laid off, etc. I'm competing with college kids who will work for nothing and happy to do it. I've probably got 10 more years and the age discrimination thing will really kick in. What, me worry? I've got MJ! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jul 09, 1998 at 02:53:15 (EST)
From: bb Email: None To: Barney Subject: right you are Message: Well said and accurate Barney. You'll be living at some festival site until on a whim he decides to get rid of the staff. Today the 6 year old was walking around with a barney the dinosaur blanket draped around his shoulders. At six the kids think barney is 'for little kids' and none of them will admit to watching. But he said he wanted to keep the blanket because 'it's soft' but if any kids come over from his class we are to say it is someone elses. But if barney comes on sometimes I overrule the protests and say 'I want to watch it' and in 30 seconds all the kids are locked in. After it is over the kids have an unspoken agreement to not discuss what just happened. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jul 09, 1998 at 08:12:02 (EST)
From: Richard Email: None To: Barney Subject: Hang in there Barney Message: Hey Barney, I know where you're coming from. I came out of the Mish with zip, not even high school grades, plans or anything. But you are better than you may think. You had the nouse to get here for instance and you have the smarts to debate with all sorts, I've read your posts. I am 47 now and I am just applying to go into a Teacher Training program because I'm FINALLY realising that I'm better that Maharaji made me feel. When I get through the course and start looking for a teaching job I'll be 48 but I'll STILL have 17 years before retirement age. I know that we are all different Barney and it isn't THAT simple but I'm saying hang in there, don't let that shit-for-brains BM spoil the rest of your life too. Didn't mean this to be a lecture. best of luck, Richard Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jul 09, 1998 at 11:57:15 (EST)
From: Barney Email: None To: Richard Subject: And Money Talks! Message: Thanks for the encouragement. And good luck to you, too! And a bitter grapes commentary in regards to how the emphasis is on $$$ now: From my perspective of the old days we were told NOT to improve ourselves to further our careers and that our happiness and security would come from MJ, at least that's what I thought that I was hearing. However, now it seems that there is a bias and a preference to those premies with money. Maybe it's my paranoia, but at the programs it sure seems that the computer system that assigns you a seat is doing a lookup into how much $$$ you were sending in as a contributor to EV. Even though I preferred sitting in the back or in the balcony as opposed to the main floor I suspected that I was there for a reason. And it feels that way. It feels that it is a money driven preference system running on secret black-op activities, behind the scenes maneuvering and deceit. Reading KK's posts about $$$ really confirms that feeling. You see those inner circle people and you just feel creepy because you know that SOMETHING'S GOING ON IN LA! And the more you know the worse it gets. It's no wonder to me why there are so many of the high ranks that have fled. There must be a lot of internal dissonance resonating inside. Everything and all the time must be hush-hush, wink-wink. It must be like having a huge marijuana grow operation in your suburban home right next to the police station. Just act normal! And if MJ gets this yacht, we all know what happened to ********. The rumor was ******** had gone into reclusion onto the yacht in his later years, but that he had actually been dead for a number of years. No one knew whether he was dead or alive. Neither confirm nor deny. ******** This is purely fictional and not based on any living or dead persons. It is strictly for entertainment purposes and should not be considered otherwise. Please feel free to contact any of the attorney's on this site to check the status of the 1st amendment (void anywhere outside of the U.S.) Oh, my god, my home theatre system has overheated and is now on fire while playing that damn Spice Girls DVD. FIRE! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jul 09, 1998 at 21:39:08 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Barney Subject: Announcing - EPCLSG Message: Thanks for the nod, Barney. Yes, folks, with the addition of KK we're now talking more than one Ex-Premie Criminal Lawyer here. And so, I proudly announce the birth of the Ex-Premie Criminal Lawyer Support Group (easily remembered by its fetching acronym, EPCLSG). We've rented a little space above the offices of the Chris Dickey Communincation Project (downtown location) and will be holding our first get together this Thursday night at 7:30 p.m. PST. Whine and cheese (no carb's, not yet anyway). Invited Speaker: Ms. Linda Gross of Elan Vital. [This is an elitist organization and very patriarchal. Smoke if you feel like it.] Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jul 09, 1998 at 12:34:45 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: Barney Subject: True INDEED! Message: Barney: I hear ya, man. I wasted a lot following the charlatan as well. Fortunately, I was lucky to get out in 1983 during the go-go 80s, got a graduate degree, and built a good career. But I would have been MUCH better off if I hadn't lived as a renunciate for so many years and turned over all my money. I had to just re-double my efforts and do the best I could. I'll have to admit, part of the motivation was the anger I felt. I wasn't about to let that jerk destroy my ENTIRE life. I really feel for people who were even more disadvantaged by his deception than I was. Maharaji, as Katie said, gets most of his information from commercial television. I don't think he reads and is too much of an egotist to ask questions when he doesn't understand things. That's why he's dangerous is making statements about inflation or something that he doesn't have a clue about. As, I mentioned, he said ignorant stuff about nuclear war in the 80s that might lead premies to the same conclusion: There's gonna be a war, so I might has well load up my credit cards, and why save for the future? Give it all to MJ, and go to programs!!! Also, once I heard him say something else really ignorant. He said that after WWII the allies should have invaded the USSR, because then the Soviets wouldn't be the threat he thought they were. Yeah, really a bright thing to do. Reflected a lot of understanding, that did! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jul 09, 1998 at 13:47:34 (EST)
From: Gail Email: freedom@gtn.net To: Barney Subject: We gotta work our own magic Message: I think we have to start working our own magic. For example, last fall, this premie travel agent screwed up with my ticket to Australia. I left on Friday as planned but the airline records showed that I should have left on Wednesday. With blind faith and determination, I made it there and back. A close friend's daughter was over for the cult papers and to visit. I asked her if she prayed. She said she prayed to herself because she was always told God was inside. She has great pluck and she believes she can do anything. All she has to do is pray to herself (a little warped, but what do you expect?). We have to harness the magic we associated to MJ. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jul 09, 1998 at 20:07:26 (EST)
From: Mark Email: None To: Gail Subject: We gotta work our own magic Message: my sentiments exactly,Gail. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jul 10, 1998 at 10:51:00 (EST)
From: KK Email: None To: Barney Subject: True INDEED! Message: He must have said it if you guys heard it. I was more disturbed by the fact that no provision was ever made for everyone's health and well being in the longer term. The complete irresponsibility of it all was so troubling. I wanted to get an ashram superannuation regime going and everybody I mentioned it to thought I was on a - wait for it - MIND TRIP. The immutable facts were that we ashram premies were going to grow old we were going to increase our chances of becoming sick we were going to need an enduring support system I never got any answers to these hard questions. P S This is another reason why some people probably threw a party when I gave MJ the flick. I was trying to share the wealth in a legitimate way. They knew he wasn't interested and I was being a pain in the ass about it at one stage. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jul 09, 1998 at 12:56:32 (EST)
From: Jerry Email: None To: Gail Subject: It's true Message: I heard it. The thing is he's right. Today's money will be worthless tomorrow. I work for a union where people who retired 20 years ago are lucky if they get a hundred dollars a month in their retirement checks. But I don't understand all these insinuations that he was making a play for our retirement funds. He wouldn't go that far. Would he? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jul 09, 1998 at 13:07:18 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: Jerry Subject: It's true, How do you know? Message: Today's money will be worthless tomorrow. You can send any of your 'worthless' money to me if you like. By the way, where did you get a stupid idea like this? I work for a union where people who retired 20 years ago are lucky if they get a hundred dollars a month in their retirement checks. This is likely more a matter of stingy employers instead of inflation. It's true that in the US for the majority of workers, income hasn't kept up with inflation, and it's only been in the past few years that that has been reveresed. Of course, the top 20% has done amazingly well, with increases way ahead of inflation. Inflation has been almost non-existent in the US economy for the past 10 years, and has been very low for the past 15 years. But interest rates tend to go up with inflation, so if you invest in retirement, chances are you will be way ahead of stuffing a mattress or spending money on a fake 'master.' Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jul 09, 1998 at 13:27:09 (EST)
From: Jerry Email: None To: JW Subject: It's true, How do you know? Message: Thanks for filling me in on all those stats. You're a real interesting guy. I know it's true because I heard Maharaji say it once during a video presentation. I don't recall exactly what he said but I do remember him informing us about the worthlessness of today's money tomorrow. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jul 09, 1998 at 13:38:30 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: Jerry Subject: It's true, How do you know? Message: So, this is why you think it's true? Because Maharaji told you this? Do you think he's qualified to comment on economics? I mean with his 8th grade education and all? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jul 09, 1998 at 14:00:53 (EST)
From: Jerry Email: None To: JW Subject: It's true, How do you know? Message: I'm not sure we're communicating here. What I'm saying is true is that Maharaji did mention that today's money will be worthless tomorrow. I'm not claiming that this is true because he says it is. He just said it. The reason I put my 2 cents in about this is because Gail made a plea for support from those who heard what she heard. Apparently, you didn't. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jul 09, 1998 at 14:09:45 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: Jerry Subject: Sorry Jerry Message: My fault, I think I misinterpreted your post. I thought you were saying you heard it, and that it was true, and the reason it was true was because he said it. It sounded like the usual premie, circular logic. I realize now that wasn't what you were saying. Sorry for the miscommunication. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jul 09, 1998 at 14:24:59 (EST)
From: Jerry Email: None To: JW Subject: Sorry Jerry Message: No harm done. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Jul 08, 1998 at 19:45:13 (EST)
From: Katie Email: None To: Gail Subject: Retirements Savings Message: It's funny that you said this, Gail, because I was just thinking yesterday how contributions to M were probably dropping because a lot of premies are our age (forty-something), and worrying about putting their kids through college and saving for retirement. At least I HOPE premies are thinking about these things! I thought I was being really cynical, so didn't post this, and now you say that M said this about retirement. It figures. BTW, after listening to some videos, I am convinced that M gets almost all his information about the world from watching TV. P.S. Don't listen to Jim; he is always trying to 'joke' with us poor exes, but he's just too darn believable. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Jul 08, 1998 at 21:18:39 (EST)
From: Sir David Email: David.Studio57@btinternet.com To: Katie Subject: Retirements Savings Message: If Maharaji said this then he is despicable to the Nth power. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Jul 08, 1998 at 21:47:05 (EST)
From: g's mom Email: None To: Katie Subject: 401K's threaten the guru... Message: Katie, I am certain you are right and that is the simple explanation. That is the problem with Knowledge lite. Tithing for a humanitarian leader/ meditation teacher just doesn't have the appeal of tithing for the lord of the Universe. In fact thinking about the future at all is sort of pointless when one is enlightened. I am sure if there are premies out there socking away 16% of every paycheck for THEMSELVES...he would be very threatened by that. How will he get his next jet if they can live comfortably in their old age. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Jul 08, 1998 at 23:00:57 (EST)
From: TD Email: None To: Gail Subject: All we need is trust... Message: (and a trust fund??). I have no doubt he would have said/alluded to something like that. There have been countless satsangs where he has said to not worry, to trust in the Creator to provide for you. Just as the birds and the animals always have things to eat, so premies will also be provided with a virtual retirement fund - by his Grace of course! This really pisses me off because I know of some old premies who are in really bad financial shape because they have 'trusted' over the years as opposed to actually putting in some earthly plans to ensure a comfortable future! I'm concerned that they will end up in a really grim impoverished situation in their 'retirement' years as a result of their 'trusting' premie nature. M's trust in his Creator has really paid off though, hasn't it? Yours cynically, TD Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jul 09, 1998 at 21:47:07 (EST)
From: Gail Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Material security for premies Message: Recently, I had the pleasure of becoming reacquainted with a former initiator/instructor. This woman was very devoted. She left a life with her husband and children to live in the ashram with a pack of kids. Her family is well to do but does not give her anything. She also lost her inheritance. MJ once labelled her as the house mother of DLM. MJ kicked her out on her ass in the mid-80s. I always wondered why she wasn't given a compensation package. Anyway, she took courses to become an interior decorator and although she is probably talented, she basically worked for rich premies. It is hard to break into the business at 53. She is 61.5 now. She came to live here in the fall of '96. She tried to get work. She refused to get city welfare because it might bring MJs name into disrepute. Due to her former sainthood, and the fact that we liked her, many of us gave her a little financial help (food, cash, dinners out). This was ok, but imagine how this must have affected her self-esteem. Finally after many requests for employment at the residence, tears and a few version of her resume on this very computer, she was finally hired by the Lord to do the laundry for the family. She works there all day and lives in a trailer with someone else. The trailer is far from the residence, so she walks quite far (I guess there are no buses in Malibu). MJ has told her that she never has to worry. She will be taken care of. She's getting kind of old for slaving in front of a washer/dryer and ironing board, don't you think? Of course, IT IS HER JOY! She told many other stories of blissful situations of living on a shoestring at the master's hand. IF THERE IS A GOD, I HOPE IT LOOKS AFTER HER BECAUSE SHE SURE HAS TRIED TO FIND IT. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jul 09, 1998 at 21:54:17 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Gail Subject: Material security for premies Message: Gail, Is there some reason you're not naming her? A lot of us know who you're talking about. That's quite a story. If I could I'd hire her just to give me shit about leaving my clothes on the floor or something. Are you in contact w her? Hoenstly, if you are, give her my love AND tell her that, if she likes, she can call me collect anytime. Seriously. But then, what's the point, eh? Does one try to deprogram retirement-age nuns? I guess not. Shit, that bugs me. Jim Heller CDCP (250) 360-1040 Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jul 09, 1998 at 22:06:12 (EST)
From: Gail Email: None To: Jim Subject: Material security for premies Message: I will make sure she gets your number Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jul 10, 1998 at 00:21:16 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: Gail Subject: Material security for premies Message: Gail, she's somebody I really cared about, too. I actually really liked her, although she was neurotic. I had no idea that it was so sad for her. This really pisses me off. I never met anyone who was so one-pointed in her dedication to Mahrarji. When you say that in the mid-80s M threw her out. What do you mean? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jul 10, 1998 at 14:38:51 (EST)
From: Gail Email: None To: JW Subject: Material security for premies Message: No more instructors. Her full-time service as an instructor was over at about '83. She was a part-timer after that. Then she was left to find gainful employment at jewellery shops, etc. So she went to school to be an interior decorator. At that time, I was really sad for her. I always felt that she deserved to be grandfathered if he no longer needed her services. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jul 10, 1998 at 15:21:07 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: Gail Subject: Material security for premies Message: I hardly even know what to say. I guess I don't know what to say. Except thanks, Gail. I'm seeing that there are a lot of premies who I really cared about. It also seems that the more dedicated you were, the more you got ripped off. Gail, in all of this. Did Anne ever express to you any doubts about M or what he was doing? Was there ever a perceptible crack in the door? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jul 10, 1998 at 16:09:05 (EST)
From: Gail Email: None To: JW Subject: Material security for premies Message: NEVER ANY DOUBTS. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jul 09, 1998 at 23:41:26 (EST)
From: Gerry Email: None To: Jim Subject: Material security for premies Message: Dear Alpha Wolf: Isn't this carrying things just a little too far? Jim Heller CDCP PS Beside the crummy little typeface (what, are they ashamed of the content?) the so-called illustrations really suck. Looks like some kid with a smudgy peice of half burnt charcoal. I want my seven bucks back. WAHHHHHHHHHH Return to Index -:- Top of Index |