Ex-Premie.Org |
Forum III Archive # 18 | |
From: Jul 14, 1998 |
To: Jul 24, 1998 |
Page: 1 Of: 5 |
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Date: Sun, Jul 19, 1998 at 12:27:56 (EDT)
From: S.F. Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Pssst....Wanna read the K vow? Message: Yes, I thought that heading might tweak a bit of interest. I've been away awhile and have since been browsing through the recent archives where I found some mention of the knowledge vows we old-timers had to take at the start of our knowledge sessions. It brought back an old memory of Rome 1978 where I purchased a copy from an 'unofficial' trinket vendor outside the Palazzo dello Sport (sp?). So I searched through my old box of DLM publications and found this fancy decorative card with the precise vow printed in full. So, now I've got your attention, never let it be said I don't deliver the goods. Here is the vow, transcribed exactly by my own fair hand. It speaks for itself. (In more ways than one!) Oh Guru Maharaj Ji, through Knowledge please purify me of the impurities I possess. Reveal to me the Knowledge of all Knowledges. Strengthen me, uplift me and reveal the Truth within inside of me. Bring me from hate to love, darkness to light, death to immortality. I will follow Your direction and never reveal this Knowledge to anybody for any reason. I will keep in contact with You through my devotional love, satsang, meditation and service. Thank you. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sun, Jul 19, 1998 at 13:17:41 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: S.F. Subject: Thanks, SF Message: It really looks more like taking Jesus into your heart than ever, doesn't it? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sun, Jul 19, 1998 at 14:43:21 (EDT)
From: S.F. Email: None To: Jim Subject: Thanks, SF Message: It really looks more like taking Jesus into your heart than ever, doesn't it? Yes, it's obvious this is no 'meditation teacher'. I just thought some of our more recently initiated readers might like to see what we were required to promise so they can judge for themselves what kind of person would insist on human beings making such a vow to himself. Although, it did cross my mind that the Chris Dickey's of this world are probably reading the vow right now and getting off on it in a most unseemly fashion. As for Passing Through, I shudder to think! I forgot to mention that I bought this card on the first day of the festival and I vaguely knew the vendor from when she was a somewhat rebellious ashram sister in my community. She was transferred elsewhere and soon left the new ashram after a 'brotherly assignation' in the back row of a cinema. Anyway, I returned to her stall the following day to get another copy for a friend and found the cards had been withdrawn from sale. She had been 'asked' to do this by a couple of 'walkie-talkie toting heavy honchos.' (Her exact words.) Bloody typical! (My exact words.) I never saw the vows publically available again. Until now, that is: hee hee heee....... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sun, Jul 19, 1998 at 14:59:13 (EDT)
From: CD Email: None To: S.F. Subject: Thanks, SF Message: > I just thought some of our more recently initiated readers might like to see what we were required to promise The entry fee to my K session in 1972 was a commitment to the teacher and practice of Knowledge. A student does not learn much without a strong desire to learn. K is not a pill that you take for instant relief. Maybe you need to see the Karate Kid movie again. >I never saw the vows publically available again. Until now, that is: hee hee heee....... 'Strengthen me, uplift me and reveal the Truth within inside of me. ' Thats a good one! Regards, CD Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sun, Jul 19, 1998 at 15:06:31 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: CD Subject: A question for Chris Message: Chris, I'd like your opinion on something. You've watched PT make and absolute fool of himself for however long denying that Maharaji's words mean what that obviously do mean. You also saw him admit yesterday that he was lying. Now, my question for you is this: what do you think of that? Why do you think PT sold his last drop of credibility in vain? Do you think he himself believed what he was saying? And how about you, by the way, do YOU deny that all those quotes prove that Maharaji claimed he was God? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sun, Jul 19, 1998 at 15:11:52 (EDT)
From: Gail Email: None To: CD Subject: K VOWS Message: Dear CD: Didn't you mouth those same words? I know I did in 1974. Do you deny that is what each person vowed before taking K? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sun, Jul 19, 1998 at 22:08:53 (EDT)
From: Gail Email: None To: Everyone Subject: NEW VOWS FOR THIS EX Message: NEW VOWS Oh my little voice of sensibility within, I dedicate myself to you. I am gullible and ignorant due to years of brainwashing in Guru Maharaj Ji’s cult. Oh my little voice of sensibility within, through true knowledge of how things are instead of fairy tales please purify me of the harmful belief system I have adopted. Reveal to me my own common sense the truest knowledge of all knowledges. Strengthen me, uplift me and reveal the truth within inside of me. I am an amazing being who can make almost anything come true. All I need to do is redirect my energies to believe in myself. Others may influence me to my betterment but I will follow my own counsel and direction. I shall never again engage others to participate in foolish belief systems that cannot be substantiated. I will keep in contact with my fellow exs because we help each other to go from darkness to wisdom and from enslavement to freedom. Thank you little voice of reason for not giving up on me. I feel more integrated and alive than I have for many years. It is so good to view life through my own eyes and not the eyes of the master. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Jul 20, 1998 at 07:06:49 (EDT)
From: Richard Email: None To: CD Subject: CD never took knowledge?? Message: Well now CD, You could've just said I don't remember, you could've said 'Yeah, it was something like that but I didn't take it too seriously', or you could've said nothing at all. BUT you have to keep on digging this hole deeper and deeper. CD, I got knowledge in '72 and it was pretty disorganised and very competitive ('are you prepared to reject your friends and family, Maharaji wants quality not quantity'). Nonetheless I clearly and distinctly remember this vow since it was reiterated time and again at the first ashram I joined. I suppose that it is just possible, CD, that your knowledge session used a slightly different version. But, remember CD, that we were about to receive secret techniques. This vow was taken as a precursor to the revelation of these techniques to ensure loyalty etc. There is only one possible explanation for your denying that this happened whilst keeping your integrity intact and that is YOU NEVER ACTUALLY RECEIVED THE KNOWLEDGE. Now that would explain a lot about your posts. So what are you CD, liar or imposter. regards Richard Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Jul 20, 1998 at 11:28:56 (EDT)
From: T Email: None To: Richard Subject: CD never took knowledge?? Message: I don't rember any vow, but of course as you say I,cd could have forgotten it. The Mahatma's english wern't all that good. I didn't know I was suppose to remember a birth date either, You know 'when did you recieve knowledge' and everybody always responded with an exact date. Me.. august 72, a girl was chewing gum in front of me. I remember something about three rules. of course satsang/serv./med was in there but i rember the first rule was 'never put of until tommorow what you can do today' really Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Jul 20, 1998 at 11:29:36 (EDT)
From: CD Email: None To: Richard Subject: CD never took knowledge?? Message: >You could've just said I don't remember, you could've said 'Yeah, it was something like that but I didn't take it too seriously' >So what are you CD, liar or imposter. I never denied anything about taking a vow. I was serious about my commitment at my K session. I still remember my K session experience to this day. Very beautiful! Much more than just some simple techniques. You apparently continue to misinterpret what people say and write. What I wrote in my previous message was: 'The entry fee to my K session in 1972 was a commitment to the teacher and practice of Knowledge.' That is how I interpret the meaning of the vow. The potential reward of taking the commitment of the vow and following through with action was a part of the vow: 'Strengthen me, uplift me and reveal the Truth within inside of me.' I consider these goals of the vow most worthy to this day! Regards, CD Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Jul 20, 1998 at 11:35:25 (EDT)
From: T Email: None To: CD Subject: CD never took knowledge?? Message: naw you just read it wrong I guess I said 'I' and then I included 'cd' Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Jul 20, 1998 at 11:41:17 (EDT)
From: T Email: None To: CD Subject: CD never took knowledge?? Message: > as you say I,cd could have forgotten it. rather;;; I 'or' cd Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Jul 20, 1998 at 11:48:11 (EDT)
From: CD Email: None To: T Subject: CD never took knowledge?? Message: T, My message was in response to Richard. Not what you said about not remembering the vow. I don't remember the exact vow but do know I took a vow that required a strong commitment. There was no confusion or competition. It was a very personal matter. Without commmitment there is no reward. Try learning to be a good guitar player without a commitment to practicing for example. Can we always maintain our commitment? No. Is it a worthwhile goal? Yes. I made a promise and recieved K in a session in London in 1972. I have no regrets whatsoever. Cheers, CD Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Jul 20, 1998 at 11:57:19 (EDT)
From: Richard Email: None To: CD Subject: CD's answer puzzle. Message: I never denied anything about taking a vow. I was serious about my commitment at my K session. I still remember my K session experience to this day. Very beautiful! Much more than just some simple techniques. You apparently continue to misinterpret what people say and write. I'm trying desperately hard to understand what you say CD, as opposed to what you don't say. That is how I interpret the meaning of the vow. Are you saying that, yes, you took the vow but chose your own interpretation. Politely but desperately trying to get at the truth, Richard Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Jul 20, 1998 at 00:03:46 (EDT)
From: VP Email: None To: S.F. Subject: death to immortality?? Message: People asked Maharaji to bring them from 'death to immortality'?? Amazing considering in a recent video I watched, Maharaji says he doesn't know what happens to us when we die. I kid you not. If you bought into M as the LORD it would be mighty disappointing to realize he is a mere human meditation teacher now. No immortality for the 'students' Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sun, Jul 19, 1998 at 08:29:57 (EDT)
From: David Matteson {dlm} Email: whaler32@aol.com To: Everyone Subject: M put up or give it all back Message: Help.... i dont really know how to start this, Alot of us donated .. gave,surrendered, huge amounts of Money ,Houses, Jewelery,Property{land} In the name of world peace. Thats really what it was all about when i recieved K in 1972...so what has happened to the peace...not to much from what i can see there isnt even peace within the originazation. i would gladly let M have everything if he could deliver. oops... he has everything so now its time to put up bring all this to a head ive wondered for years if everything we gave of our youth really was for a good cause ....my mother said in 72 when i got back fm india very sick and so thin she didnt recoginize me.. that maharaj ji is a charlitin if he was all good and loving why would he let you people slip away to nothing...i gave her the usual spiritual clensing bit...... so thinking back to that.. im ready for world peace and people loving one another the whole bit so M lets move on with it or say that you cannot attain this.....and give back what you recieved fm all the loving giving and honorable souls that you were leading down the path to truth and bliss...what happened to all the big shots that were promoting the K charles cammeron, sandos, mills,rene davis and there were many more. dont you thik its time for all this to come to a head....it has taken me years to get this off my chest .. i lost considerable ammounts money time valueables but most of all ,my heart for a long time i couldnt trust anyone, over the years all these feelings are starting to come back and M has everything that you and i have given him in the name of god,love ,trust.and most importantly peace ....world peace so lets go get on with it or its time to say you failed or it didnt quite work out or whatever ...and its time for a giant garage sale well be waiting......peace and love to all...david Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sun, Jul 19, 1998 at 12:10:38 (EDT)
From: Gail Email: freedom@gtn.net To: David Matteson {dlm} Subject: M put up or give it all back Message: Your post made me feel so good. Thanks. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sun, Jul 19, 1998 at 13:04:29 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Gail Subject: M put up or give it all back Message: Dave, Maharaji HAS been compensating ex's like crazy over the last few weeks. I just got $180,000 U.S. myself. You've been posting under a pseudonym so, as you know, that makes you hard for even someone like Maharaji to find. But now that you've decided to walk on the 'sunny side of the street' or 'wild side' or however you want to call it, you should be getting some money any day now. By the way, I THINK that my cheque was just an installment but I don't know. Maharaji still won't answer any questions. Oh well, the money DOES help a little. SINCERELY, Jim Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Jul 20, 1998 at 23:59:41 (EDT)
From: Brian Email: brian@ex-premie.org To: Jim Subject: M put up or give it all back Message: Maharaji HAS been compensating ex's like crazy over the last few weeks. I just got $180,000 U.S. myself. It's no good, Jim. Look closely at picture on the bills. Recognize the Krishna costume? Yeah, I thought you would. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sun, Jul 19, 1998 at 14:20:46 (EDT)
From: CD Email: None To: David Matteson {dlm} Subject: The priority of peace Message: > In the name of world peace. Thats really what it was all about when i recieved K in 1972 The message I have consistently heard over the years is: find inner peace first. Here is a quote from the K vow posted on this forum: 'Strengthen me, uplift me and reveal the Truth within inside of me. ' Did you find the source of peace inside yourself? I also went on the India trip in 1972. I got sick because I swam across the Ganges to the other shore. And I recently attended the Wembley event in June 1998. The message remains the same: the priority is to 'know thyself'. World peace is certainly a worthy and decent goal. What is a true foundation for world peace? Regards, CD Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sun, Jul 19, 1998 at 16:04:10 (EDT)
From: dvd Email: None To: CD Subject: The price of peace Message: Chris old buddy, if it didn't work for the rawat clan, and they are the marketers, well, perhaps new age hindu concepts are not the way to go. Peace is not a world of obedient servants. Peace is not having an imaginary lover. If peace was feeling your breath all the time then I could vouch for it. Who made peace the goal anyway? In fact it is not the goal or the power would have us on some form of 'instinct' mode. You will have too much peace after you die anyway. Now is to be subject to all the various challenges and to find your own way to be in it all. To set yourself up as more divine when your not is just a fake. Even you can't sing the glories of the master very well. The most my friend at the residence can say is that he doesn't meditate. To qoute from last week about meditation, 'you know me'. Following the breath is not his focus. His focus is 'when I feel love I feel love'. I don't know how we get world peace out of that. He got where he wanted in life. I wish him well, but certainly he should be saying something different if m was lord. I don't pop his bubble and I just go along. Like ann johnson, he is past the child rearing phase now and one guy in servitude is not my objection here. It is the global effort to imply divinity that I object to. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sun, Jul 19, 1998 at 16:28:56 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: CD Subject: The facade of your memory Message: The message I have consistently heard over the years is: find inner peace first. Do you rmemeber this message too: In December, 1972, and January, 1973, he designed the Divine United Organization, or DUO, as a master plan for the rediscovery of humanity,an organization capable of meeting global needs with total solutions.DUO coordinates the entire divine community, and under the guidance of Guru Maharaj Ji works through purely constructive means to remold this world as a humanistic society wehre people base their lives upon service rather than selfishness. For the members of DUO, work is worship. The stated purpose of DUO might seem like an idle dream exept for the incredible growth of Divine Light Mission. The Mission is different from all other organizations in that all its members have received Knowledge. They have scrapped every ulterior motive and rededicated their lives. They are well on their way to total selflessness. Taking only what they need, giving all of themselves to the task, they are tackling the most massive job that man has ever faced -- out of love fortheir Perfect Master, Guru Maharaj Ji.' Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sun, Jul 19, 1998 at 18:17:22 (EDT)
From: david Email: None To: CD Subject: The priority of peace Message: i guess the first thing is being totally honest with yourself and the people arround you...taking a good look at the whole picture[you cant see the forest thru the trees]...really take a look at the whole mission fm 71 on ...the first few years i think the mission was on the right track ..but more and more money,power,untrufullness kind of spoiled the whole concept....M needed d.u.o. to keep drawing in more money ..to keep promoting world peace ha ha ha so i myself am trying to show by example smile ,help someone who really needs it.....be a true friend ....be honest Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sun, Jul 19, 1998 at 02:33:49 (EDT)
From: Keith Email: None To: Nigel and everyone Subject: how much do I agree? Message: Dear Nigel, Thankyou for the post below . Yes, England were robbed! I almost cried....ssshhh...just between you and me! As for your definition of athiesm ; I can empathise...or even subjectively inter-relate ; because for many years I felt and thought in a simular way. And even now I find myself moving back towards a position somewhere mid-way between athiesm and a type of existentialist spirituality. Gross's sentiments that you quoted are quite compatable with the guru papers. I listed some of my favorite words at this time in my post to Robyn (abuse of power) , but I forgot to mention 'synergy'. I often lay in bed at night allowing diverse threads of ideas I've imbibed along the way...to synergise with each other. I rarely can reiterate the insights that implode eventually in my energised psyche.....but this para-mental (or heightened consciousness) always leaves me with a sense of 'synergistic inter-relatedness'. It's as if I again and again visit this place where nothing can be truly understood in isolation. Everything is contextual. All ideas are potentially capable of being modified, altered or transformed by all other ideas. Therefore ideas that are essentially athiestic and ideas that are essentially spiritual or metaphysical can be synergised. Such synergy involves a great deal of burning away the dross (to use an alchemical metaphor) on both or all sides of the equation. The outcome of such a process is to increasingly render the conscious identification of who one is to a type of nebulous ,non-absolute, ambiguous, non-aligned.... integrity. This is a state of non-extremes. Indeed anti-fundamentalist. Anti-fanatical. Anti-war! This seems to be a movement towards , at least in terms of mental attitude , a non-authoritarian consciousness. I hope the above is intelligible . Btw....I did tip France to win the world cup...but who would believe me? And I did'nt place a bet....as usual! Regards and toodle pip, Keith Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sun, Jul 19, 1998 at 02:58:30 (EDT)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Keith Subject: how much do I agree? Message: Dear Keith, I see the explination of synergy and will go and find your reply to me and know the part you forgot before I even see it! Perfect! Love, Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sun, Jul 19, 1998 at 01:55:41 (EDT)
From: Keith Email: None To: Robyn and everyone Subject: abuse of power... Message: Dear Robyn, Following on from your post below. I'll share a few key words with you that mean a lot to me at this time. Balance...integration...civility...openness...non-alignment ...introspection...humour...and interactive subjectivity. I know at a glance that I have behaved in authoritarian ways ....and with my son too...but as I awaken more I seek balance more. I also realise that my son has learnt how to behave in authoritarian ways too...and I must continue to learn how to deal with this in non-authoritarian reactive ways...nor in ways that crush me. And so it is in my relationship with the world at large too. Robyn, Mirabai SAYS HELLO to you and she really enjoyed those jokes you posted. Love, Keith Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sun, Jul 19, 1998 at 00:31:49 (EDT)
From: Gail Email: None To: Everyone Subject: MJ says 'If you don't like it, Message: TAKE A WALK.' Atlantic City, NJ, 1998 07 16 I ran into some enthusiastic premies tonight at the folk festival. The above is a direct quote. That's real encouragement to leave, don't you think? We missed a BEE-UTE-EEE-FULL PROGRAM. We could have practiced the techniques at the hall. It was right in the middle of the Casino scene. One of them figures the net was my escape from MJ because I wasn't happy. You know 'hear what you want to.' Right they are Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sun, Jul 19, 1998 at 15:24:28 (EDT)
From: Gail Email: None To: everyone Subject: Premlata has received K. She Message: is the first child of MJ's to do so. Let's break out the champagne. I also heard that she and Daya are helping to make these new hypnotic videos down at VISIONS. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, Jul 21, 1998 at 19:03:19 (EDT)
From: VP Email: None To: Gail Subject: Too bad. Message: I wonder what she HONESTLY thinks about it. If it was a let down to her. Could she ever honestly say how she feels anyway? NO (I think it would just be another Marolyn letter.) I wonder if she is required to practice or if she is exempt like the great one. Cough! Is she the one who is supposed to be the next Perfect Master? Wouldn't it be hard to be the MASTER when you are 'practising' to be the SLAVE. Gail, I take it the premies are still speaking to you then? How is that going? (if you don't mind my asking) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, Jul 21, 1998 at 21:38:46 (EDT)
From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: VP Subject: She's Visions boss now! Message: What do you think she does as an employee in Visions Intl? Learning to manage his father's businesses? Before that, she used to be his secretary, organising his tours. What would be her credibility not being a premie? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, Jul 21, 1998 at 22:06:33 (EDT)
From: VP Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: She's Visions boss now! Message: It was a joke. Of course she would have to be a premie. I remember someone saying that one of M's daughters would be the next master. I couldn't remember which one. Is it her? I took a look at the French forum yesterday, and it looked really interesting. I don't read/speak French, so it was frustrating-snicker! You have done a great job on the site. Thanks for everything. What is your email address? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Jul 22, 1998 at 03:27:24 (EDT)
From: Jean-Michel Email: jmakhn@hol.fr To: VP Subject: Gratitude Message: Thanks! I feel much better with myself having done that! I'm also into the Indian stuff, as you have seen. It's a bit of a shock here in France, as many premies know me quite well. I'm still friend with some of them. I finally discovered that many of them are really 'fringe' premie, and don't believe that much in the whole BS. Now that all this is in the open, it becomes much easier to discuss difficult issues openly. I find it very healthy. It looks like I might have some 'meetings' with some of them in a near future. I think it's going to be a relief for them too. ... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jul 23, 1998 at 17:50:18 (EDT)
From: Selena Email: None To: VP Subject: She's Visions boss now! Message: Hi VP I know I said once that the next mistress would be Daya. Gail are you sure Daya doens't have the divine all powerful K? The way she sings to him just made me assume she had bought the entire package right down to the essential exclusive property of M - his one and only true knowledge (gag) not that it matters, just gossiping. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jul 23, 1998 at 18:47:59 (EDT)
From: Katie Email: None To: Selena Subject: Daya and M Message: Selena - I watched half of the Long Beach 96 video and had to rewind it and give it to VP. But I did see some of the Daya and M interplay. They make such a BIG DEAL of this in the video - they keep cutting back and forth. I am pretty sure that they don't INTEND it to look incestuous, but she is a BIG girl and he is still really young. It seems very bizzarre to me. I loved my own father but would never have performed on stage and interacted like that with him, and he wouldn't have done likewise with me. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jul 23, 1998 at 20:01:06 (EDT)
From: Selena Email: None To: Katie Subject: Daya and M Message: But Katie, he is special! He is the Perfect Master, Satguru, God, best darned meditation teacher in the world ! She is a devotee or aspirant. Things like father daughter are not real. Only this true relationship is real Think I need a break fro the computer? I do!! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jul 24, 1998 at 01:44:24 (EDT)
From: jethro Email: None To: Katie Subject: Daya and M Message: Hi katie, Just a quick note. '..But I did see some of the Daya and M interplay. They make such a BIG DEAL of this in the video...' That was also done in 'satguru has come' with hansji and prempal exchanging adoring glances.......oooh the seeds of religion. jethro(off to spend 2 weeks in the big USA). Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jul 18, 1998 at 21:57:23 (EDT)
From: Sir David Email: David.Studio57@btinternet.com To: Everyone Subject: God in every dimension Message: I mentioned earlier, below, that I had an article written by someone who had an experience of being with God and perceiving endless dimensions. Well rather than post it here, I would rather email it to anyone who wants to read it. So please email me if you want me to send you the article. Also, I won't be visiting the forum much now as I really have too many other things taking up my time so please email me anyway if you'd like to. Incidentally, I never divulge people's identities or email addresses so you are safe. Thank you and goodnight from London, England. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Jul 20, 1998 at 11:30:40 (EDT)
From: Richard Email: None To: Sir David Subject: God in every dimension Message: Thanks for everything David regards Richard Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jul 18, 1998 at 20:29:45 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Get drunk, Premies!! Message: Following in the footsteps of your master, all you premies should have a few drinks before you post here. Look what it's done for PT! We have honesty, discloure, sincere emotion, only half-hearted evasiveness this time and -- I don't know how to say it other than -- I like him a lot more this way. Don't you? Maharaji! Let's all get drunk together. Let's party down at the beach, maybe go over to Trancas catch a little music. Then we can give you a lift back up the hill and, while you're nicely tucked into bed, we can loot the place! Everyone'll be happy. We'll all get some souvenirs. You might even make some new friends in the deal. Hey, I'll be your friend. I've always liked spiritual types and, like I've said here before, people in Malibu ROCK! So, everyone, let's close out the Millenium with a Happy Hour. What do you say? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jul 18, 1998 at 20:56:31 (EDT)
From: TD Email: None To: Jim Subject: Get drunk, Premies!! Message: Great idea. And such a special occasion calls for some signature cocktails... What about a Propogation Crush, a Darshan Daiquiri - or even a Baragon Slammer? With this last one, you need technique No.4, tequila, salt, lemon, a funnel, your baragon and no hands. A guaranteed waster and pure entertainment for your fellow premie revellers. TD Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sun, Jul 19, 1998 at 02:49:35 (EDT)
From: Selene Email: None To: all Subject: Get drunk or something! Message: I think even the nicer Selene would like that drink! What was that PT drunk stuff anyway? Was he really showing true emotions or was it a put on? I may have a new respect for the premies who post here if this is true. ah but how to tell. We don't have a cyberspace blood level test, - good thing I might fail!! And now a toast that is a result of a weekend alone for a change - wheee!! :: anywyay, my toast to all of you is: I am so very happy to have met you. It has helped me through so much. Those who dis the forum don't have a clue. If it has done this much for a hardcore case like me then it can work miracles. so there. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jul 18, 1998 at 20:04:12 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Chomsky cont'd - JW Message: Jim, You don't really dispute the fact that information is withheld from the public. You just seem to think it's for a different motivation. Tell me Jim, do you have more proof for that theory (that people don't want to hear certain information and so it isn't reported) than Chomsky has for his? Especially when it's clear that he's established there IS motivation for that behavior. Not even the media makes THAT argument. Joe, I don't agree that information is 'withheld' anymore than I'd agree that I've withheld my mother's maiden name from you. I just didn't tell you. You didn't ask, I didn't think you cared, I had other things to talk about. >> Chomsky regularly falls into the classic but shameless error of finding intent (and thus possible causation) where there's merely motive. But Jim, you fail here because you leave out one of the steps. There is motive, and there is result. You forget the result. With East Timor, for example, the story wasn't covered, and there was a motive for not doing so. I think that leads to a logical conclusion. It isn't difinitive proof. Of course it isn't. I don't know HOW you would get that. But it's a very strong argument and provides an excellent vantage point to view the whole issue. The media's retorts are SO lame, that I'm more inclined to believe Chomsky. Tell me Jim, what's your theory? The same one the guy from the NTY said. 'Too many genocides, too little time?' Give me a break. No, Joe, it does NOT lead to a logical conclusion. It leads to a logical fallacy. That's why I referred to Columbo. Remember? EVERYONE had a motive to kill the victim. Motives were cheap. Personally, I'm inclined to believe the NYT guy. Know why? Becuase I'm inclined to believe that the kind of orchestrated plot (read 'conspiracy') needed to intentionally suppress the stories the otherwise good reporters would report is too unwieldy. AND to easy to crack. Think, just think, what a career builder it would be for some enterprising -- or disgruntled -- media employee to report the 'real' reason they sat on 'x' story, that they were ordered to because the bosses -- the 'real' bosses didn't want it. Sorry, that's far-fetched in my books. Doesn't mean it's not true, just means I'd need substantial proof to accept it, not just Chomsky's unpersuasive speculation. By the way Jim, your whole analysis rests on the assumption that the media is basically benign or doing it's job. What proof do you have for that? And, unlike Chomsky, you don't have the motive OR the result. Joe, I thought you liked people in general a little more than this. Honestly, I'm disappointed that you're quite this cynical. >>He decides that the Indonesian repression in East Timor doesn't get anywhere near the coverage it should get in the States. Well, really Jim, it didn't get ANY coverage, the genocide that is. When Pol Pot genocide got reams of coverage. Again, Chomsky's theory is that the US was complicit in one, and not the other. Reasonable? Sure it is. Defnitive? No. Got a better explanation, Jim? Yes! Cambodia, as an extension of the Vietnam war, already had the American public's attention. By extension, it had more of the media's attention. Shoudl the media exercise more leadership in this respect? It's a trade-off. The Atlantic is less compromising, I'd suspect, than larger magazines, for example. BUT, they pay a price for that integrity. Journalism's a business and a 'calling'. But the padnering is mainly to the public's appetite, not the dark secret directives of the gov't, corporations, etc. Besdes what Meyer said that I already quoted 'too many genocides, too little time?' Again, what proof do you have for what happened? Just spaciness, just laziness or what? I don't accept the theory as absolute fact. But it makes a lot of sense to me and the facts seem to support it. I have yet to hear another explanation from the media on the East Timor case that makes any sense, including yours. Joe, there could be something happenign right now that warrants a lot more attention, in SOMEONE'S opinion, than it's getting. It's a big world out there. And, like it or not, a bunch of people half way around the world who don't have much direct involvement with our culture, economically, politically or culturally, aren't really going to mean that much to us. The 'secret' war between Morocco and Algeria just doesn't matter that much over here, for example. (Hey, is that thing still going on or what?) Chomsky has never suggested that the press always supports the government. Government scandal is stock and trade and conservative /liberal discussion is within a well-enclosed box. So the Watergate, Lewinsky stuff doesn't rock the boat at all. It has more to to with protecting the current power structure. Who happens to be president at any one time is pretty irrelevent under the current system. You can attack the president, just don't attack military arms suppliers(like GE and Westinghouse who own two of the networks), encourage worker organizing, or question US hegimony in the world. That's were the pressure is, not in internal party disputes. That's just Chomsky, like any good conspiracy theorist, trying to move the fight out of view of the folks in the stands. To say that Watergate didn't rock the boat is ludicrous. Look how far you're going to protect this theory! Joe, I read Chomsky's attempt to factor in Watergate. It's bullshit. The American gov't was in bad shape when the president was holed-up in the White house like, well like a crook, I guess. If the 'powers that be' really controlled the press that would NEVER have happened. Never. So, Jim, regarding the 'market out there' I see a contradiction. First you say there isn't censorship in the press, and then you say there is, but it's done because it sells more papers. It's what the people want. I never said 'cencorship' and I don't at all accept that word for what I was talking about which is, demand shaping supply. You don't normally argue like this, Joe. Of course it is, at least to some extent, but the media, as the watchdog on the government and those in power are supposed to do more and they are supposed to report the news and inform people. So they have TWO motivations. The interests of the media's owners, and the interests of many consumers of media. Sounds like a great situation that Chomsky couldn't agree with more. But there are two audiences. Those who vote and are the 'political class' are the ones who get the propoganda and the rest are marginalized by giving them 'what they want to see.' Clearly that's over-simplified, but I think there is a lot of truth in it. I'm not sure I get your point here. Can I just assume you're wrong? It'll make things move along a little quicker. :) Your statement that East Timor isn't that interesting and that's why it wasn't covered is just pathetic. Pathetic but true. Tell me, where's the big coverage of the war in the Sudan (Is THAT thing still going on?). People just don't care that much. Maybe they should, maybe they should. But the argument is over why there isn't more coverage and I say that's the reason. Not even the NYT said something that dumb. No, well it's kind of a 'limiting' comment on the American people (and yes, me) isn't it? Don't forget, they're in the business of making people like them enough to want to buy tomorrow's paper too. The NYT basically said they didn't know why it wasn't covered. Certainly there was no strong impetus to cover it and lots of reasons not to. Pol Pot was covered endlessly because it was something we weren't involved in and East Timor we were HEAVILY involved. One story was safe and one wasn't. I think that was a strong motivation not to cover it. 200,000 dead in a genocide is NEWS which doesn't get ignored because Americans are bored with it. Why was Cambodia genocide so much more interesting? Better scenery? I've already said why Cambodia was more interesting. By the way Jim, you didn't comment on the Rome war crimes tribunal vote. The US was one of SIX nations that voted against it. The others? Let's see: Libya, Indonesia, Iran, Turkey and China. Gee, great group there. Think the NYT will notice any similarities of interests there? They haven't yet. They are still, as of today, parrotting the state department line about fear of unjust accusations on peacekeepers. Yeah, right. But gee, that's just what people want to hear, so what can they do? Joe, you want them to argue your sentiments. But who should they be quoting? They give the facts, quote the gov't reps nd leave it for the commentators to hash out. I and Robyn love you too Jim. Yes, well I love everybody too for the right price. BTW- If you would just learn to listen to Chomsky with your heart instead of your mind, you would see what a beautiful experience you would have. I don't care about any contradictions or inconsistencies in what he says, he's given me a beautiful experience and I shall forever be grateful to him for that.:) I think I can feel something! :) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jul 18, 1998 at 22:48:25 (EDT)
From: Gregg Email: gpainter@dnvr.uswest.net To: Jim Subject: Chomsky cont'd - JW Message: Well, I'm with Noam on this, but, still, nicely argued. Tell me this: whose media critique (since media criticism is so au courant these days) do you find more cogent than Chomsky's? Don't you find so much of it tiredly partisan, hence, fucking useless? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jul 18, 1998 at 23:04:22 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Gregg Subject: Chomsky cont'd - JW Message: Gregg, You must be wrong but thanks anyways, respectively. Really, I don't know shit about media criticism and only know about Chomsky because I came back to Canada 8 years ago and the whole place ahd been infested. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sun, Jul 19, 1998 at 01:55:44 (EDT)
From: runamok Email: lotuspower@aol.com To: Jim Subject: Chomp thread from where Message: Pretty wild chomsky thread on ex-premie dot org. Does this mean I need my unzip functional to read how this got started? Chomsky the quintessential intellectual cult leader himself, his predilection for political pronouncement- is it supportable by his background as the major linguistic theorist of our time? Cult leaders of our 70's milieu- Chomps is among the more obscure especially as far as his actual academic grounding as a linguist is concerned. Still his cultist scope was more limited than the likes of BM. 'I am the quintessential linguist therefore I know how words are used better than all others and will define the political situation of the world with the hidden falsehoods inherent in the pronouncements of the various propagandas of the world. But mine is not propaganda and you can buy my books to learn the truth.' Seems like something to that effect to me. My first encounters with the theories of Chomp as a child hearing older siblings discuss often strikes me as my first introduction to cultism- it's intellectual cultism if I am right in my thinking that it is a cult. Our early times with BM took place in the context of numerous cults with EST and Primal therapy and everything else that cost money to help you. The intellectual cult has a different scope but plays by some of the same rules. Questioning the authority is not allowed. Where did this thread start? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sun, Jul 19, 1998 at 12:52:50 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: runamok Subject: Hey, it's the Cavalry! Message: Or is that Calvary? Alright, runamok to the rescue! You'll find the thread starts in the inactive list -- today's -- with 'Mother Theresa unvelied'. Give 'em shit, run. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sun, Jul 19, 1998 at 21:24:05 (EDT)
From: JW Email: None To: Jim Subject: Chomsky cont'd - JW Message: Jim, Well, this is really off-topic. Why don't you go over to one of the (many) Chomsky discussion forums on the net and argue to your heart's content. I still dont' think your arguments make much sense, but I understand you are committed to them. Like the following: Joe, I don't agree that information is 'withheld' anymore than I'd agree that I've withheld my mother's maiden name from you. I just didn't tell you. You didn't ask, I didn't think you cared, I had other things to talk about. Your digging a hole here, Jim. Since when do you ask the New York Times to cover NEWS. And what the hell is the difference between not telling me, on the one hand, and withholding the information on the other , if you are SUPPOSED to be reporting it because you are a NEWS outlet. YOU aren't supposed to tell me your mother's maiden name. The NYT has the JOB or reporting news. If they don't report it, it's withheld, whether they write a story and cut it, or if they just don't bother to cover it it the first place. Very specious argument, Jim. See Jim, you , and Tom Wolfe, are both stuck on this idea that there has to be some sinister cabal of people who set out to delete any story they don't want covered for there to be any truth to what Chomsky says. It doesn't usually work that way. You can either kill a story, or just not cover it. But that's different than saying that NYT didn't know that a genocide in East Timor was going on. They did. In fact, they covered the revolution in East Timor and other events, which were a lot more obscure, prior to the genocide. Then, after the US gave Indonesia the permission to invade, armed their invasion forces, gave military and other financial aid so they could do it, and killed UN resolutions condemming the genocide, the NYT didn't cover a 200,000-death genocide. Sorry, Jim, the idea that that they didn't cover it because they thought people didn' care, is just bullshit and you know it. Also, Jim, keep in mind that the readers of the NYT are different that the public in general. I would argue that the readers of the NYT, especially if they don't live in NY, actually buy the paper BECAUSE it covers foreign affairs. I mean I live in SF and I don't buy it to read local news. And the NYT sells more papers outside NY and in the NY metro area. Pathetic but true. Tell me, where's the big coverage of the war in the Sudan (Is THAT thing still going on?). People just don't care that much. Maybe they should, maybe they should. But the argument is over why there isn't more coverage and I say that's the reason. Interesting YOU say this, but the NYT doesn't even say this. Read the papers, Jim. And it isn't true, Jim. The majority of American people on the whole are not interested in foreign affairs period, unless the US is directly involved. Involved in terms of troops or the president or the state department is making public statements about it. And yet the NYT covers foreign stories constantly. The genocide in Rawanda wasn't of particular interest to the US people and yet IT was covered with great detail. Sudan has been covered significantly in the NYT, Jim, you are very wrong there.. It's a heavily covered story. Again, it's a safe story. We aren't involved, except to supply food. So, in the case of East Timor you continue with this ridiculous argument that a genocide of 200,000 people wasn't covered because the people weren't interested, but they WERE interested in an obscure revolution that happend in the same country just prior to that, which was extensively covered (because it was a leftist victory with communist leanings and was considered a threat to security in SE Asia (this is my opinion)), and that the NYT doesn't cover foreign affairs that aren't popular with the American people. That's just ridiculous Jim, unless you think the press is even WORSE that Chomsky says. So, the press doesn't care about news, they just care about making the people happy. Is that what you are saying? The NYT isn't a tabloid, Jim, it says it covers all the news that's fit to print, not the news that the people want to see after looking at polls or focus groups. Get real. Maybe you don't agree with Chomsky's motivation here, Jim, but I think you better give up your suggested motivation. I never said 'cencorship' and I don't at all accept that word for what I was talking about which is, demand shaping supply. You don't normally argue like this, Joe. Jim, don't be patronizing. Just stick to the point. When I say 'censorship' I mean a newspaper, for example, knows that something is going on, is, in fact, news, and chooses not to cover it. Period. So, you say they 'don't cover' stuff because the American people don't want to hear it and I'm saying there is another motivation, that those who control the media don't want it covered, in the case of East Timor because it would expose the US government complicity in the genocide and the fact the US arms suppliers provided the weapons that did the killing. Don't let the word 'censorship' scare you. It just means not publishing news that really is news. Whatever you call it, I think your argument still sounds as dumb as it did the first time. Jim, the media uses your argument, that 'this is what the people want' when they cover stuff that ISN'T news. Like when the NYT put the breakup of Bruce Willis and Demi Moore on the front page. That's when your argument is used and actually makes some sense. But is isn't used, and makes no sense, when you are talking about something that IS news, and not just news, but really important, news, like the massacre of 200,000 people that went on over a period of YEARS. Then it makes no sense, and even the media didn't make it in that case, although you do it for them. I guess you have less shame than they do. Well, your argument that Cambodia was more interesting because it's geographically closer to Vietnam doesn't hold water either. First, Cambodia WASN'T covered from 1970-1975 when the US was carpet bombing Cambodia, a country with which we were not at war, and up to 600,000 people were killed. No coverage. And this was WHILE we were still involved in Vietnam and hadn't entirely lost the war yet. Again, this was OUR fault. No coverage. So, for your argument to make sense, the earlier conflict should have been covered because the Americans are really interested in Cambodia. [By the way, I completely disagree that the American people were any more interested in Cambodia than East Timor, until Cambodia began being covered. Remember Jim, the media both shapes interest satisfies it.] Then, in 1975 Pol Pot begins his reorganization of the country and suddenly the story is covered endlessly. Not only covered it's EXAGGERATED. Claims of 2,000,000 dead was very over-stated. It was, in reality about 700,000. But the story was covered when the death toll was only 2,000. But this was a COMMUNIST who was doing this, and we weren't involved. In East Timor it was an ANTI-COMMUNIST client state of the US who was doing the killing with our arms and our money. Plus, the government of East Timor was COMMUNIST LEANING. The US government wanted it OUTTA there. Indonesia was a good means to do that. Remember, Jim, this was still during the cold war. Regarding the war crimes court, I don't want them to report my sentiments. I want them to report the motivations of the US to vote against the court, voting with other terrorist states as they did is embarrassing to say the least. The fact that the US has committed war crimes in the past and has, infact, been convicted of them in a toothless world court wasn't even mentioned by the NYT. And I think there is a good reason. Can I prove it? Of course not. But that's not a reason not to think about what you are NOT being told as much as what you are. The fact that we voted with Libya, Turkey, Iran, China, and Indonesia kinda puts that into perspective. By the way, this point has been noticed by the alternative press, today, finally. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Jul 20, 1998 at 01:00:10 (EDT)
From: Runamok Email: lotuspower@aol.com To: JW Subject: Chumps that we are Message: It seems like Chomp's authority is not questioned by his believers- yes maybe his opinions can be questioned. But that's how it relates to the cult question. With a monopoly of sorts on the theory of grammar with the 'transformational grammar' concept, he then just kinda gets up and says I'm gonna pronounce the political truth. Is there any attempt to bridge the gap? Is there a comprehensive discussion of linguistic structures that are used by people who cover up or lie in the political arena? Where does he demonstrate or discuss how his expertise in linguistics enabled and allowed him to come to a deep comprehension of politics. He really doesn't as far as I can see, and he really is deals with linguistics or politics without developing any extensive gray area in the middle. His books and/or lectures are either on linguistics or politics, not both- ever. I'm glad he brought attention to genocide altho he made money on books and speaking engagements in so doing. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Jul 20, 1998 at 01:26:53 (EDT)
From: JW Email: None To: Runamok Subject: Chumps that we are Message: Look, I am not an apologist for Chomsky. I happen to agree with his theory on the media. I think it has a lot of truth in it. That's all. If some people are turning him into a cult, well I can't help it. People have a tendency to do that as we all know. I would certainly keep my distance from that by all means, because of my own experience. I've heard Chomsky say that his linguistics work and his political work are really unrelated. One doesn't give him qualifications to talk about the other and he's never claimed that. And he doesn't use any linguistics theory to explain politics, the media, or anything else I am aware of. You probably know his linguistic work better than I, I understand that it's pretty accepted these days but was revolutionary when it came out. It's the whole idea that language is genetic, and has evolved in the human species. I don't know what would qualify someone to engage in the political discussions he does. I think it's because he's willing to say the emperor has no clothes and defend it. I think that's more a personal quality than a learned one. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Jul 20, 1998 at 01:32:09 (EDT)
From: JW Email: None To: Jim Subject: Chomsky cont'd - JW Message: Oh, and one more thing Jim. The idea that watergate rocked the country, as far as the power structure is concerned is ridiculous. We had Nixon and got Ford. Now THERE was a real challenge to the status quo! Jim, I don't think you understand. The regular political debate we see in the press is very safe to publish. It doesn't question the basic power structure. So watergate was well within the box. So is most other political discussion or attacking the government. What doesn't get attacked is things that are essential to maintaing the power structure: Military necessity/build-up, arms suppliers, American hegimony around the world, or the economic underpinnings, especially labor/worker organizing. Those are the real threats -- not that the current government falls because of corruption or scandals. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, Jul 21, 1998 at 02:43:17 (EDT)
From: nigel Email: nigel@redcrow.demon.co.uk To: JW Subject: Chomsky cont'd - JW Message: Very well argued, Joe, and I agree with every word. Don't really understand runamok's comments about a linguist's qualifications to comment on politics. Like, since when did a political commentator need qualifications? Come to that, since when did even a US president need even all his mental faculties intact? (Ronald Reagan?). It wasn't Chomsky, but another journalist I admire, John Pilger, who blew the whistle over here regarding the Timorese situation (he also brought the Cambodian genocide to the world's attention back in 1978). He too has had to face a hostile press, who suspect him of nothing more than politically motivated propoganda. Right now the so-called 'ethical' foreign policy of the new Labour government forbids British businesses from selling weapons to Indonesia, but allows them to supply 'non-military' equipment like water-cannon for riot control. So much for ethical high ground! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, Jul 21, 1998 at 07:05:23 (EDT)
From: Runamok Email: lotuspower@aol.com To: nigel Subject: Chomsky cont'd - JW Message: I don't recall espousing Reagan in my comments. I guess most importantly in a subjective note, I have considered Chomsky as my first exposure to cultism years before this thread. In Chomp's avor I will say that I do agree with him often and also that he would not be likely to do many of the things that we criticize M for. On the other hand, he seems to be an unquestionable authority in the left, making it unhospitable to moderates. This is, as mentioned, without a clear claim to expertise in that field. Academia is so laden with certification- I'm sure it's nice for him to be able to lay claim to an unrelated field for which he has none. To me this is about the inability of C's supporters to question his authority as a political theorist. Remember other ideological authorities of the 60's and 70' who were unquestionable? Maybe Reagan IS the best example of a cult. In fact, the word 'authority' would seem to imply some kind of background in a field... What is a cult? I guess there is quite a difference from one type of cult to another. If the comparison bothers you in reference to Chomp I can understand that- he's not using 'slave labor'. I dunno, I guess we need define it better. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, Jul 21, 1998 at 13:59:17 (EDT)
From: JW Email: None To: Runamok Subject: Chomsky cont'd - JW Message: Runamok: To be fair, I have heard Chomsky criticized both from the left and from the right. It depends on the issue you are talking about. For example, his being a champion of the cause of the Palestinians has caused him to be criticized by pro-Israeli groups in the US, which are otherwise usually on the political left. I doubt a degree in Political Science would give Chomsky any better qualificiations to say what he does. Essentially, he researches, in the case of the media, patterns in reports his findings. I think they are convincing. I agree with Jim, however, that he doesn't have conclusive proof. That's why what he says is theory. But it's theory that others can test out, and it's theory that is helpful in looking at the media, for example from a new vantage point, instead of just assuming that they are reporting all the news. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, Jul 21, 1998 at 15:32:38 (EDT)
From: nigel Email: nigel@redcrow.demon.co.uk To: Runamok Subject: Chomsky cont'd - JW Message: I didn't for a minute mean to suggest you were a Reagan fan, Runamok, and I don't think my post could be seen to imply that. I was really just saying that isn't politics one area - by very definition - that everybody is entitled to have their say? Qualifications don't come into it. IMHO. Reagan was just the extreme example of that. I am mostly aware of Chomsky from psychology, through his very effective demolition of the stranglehold that radical behaviourism had had on American psychology for half a century. Skinner (now there's a guru, if ever I saw one) had tried to explain the acquisition of language in terms of stimulus-response mechanisms in his book Verbal Behaviour. Chomsky's savage review of the book changed the way psychologists thought about language and the mind forever. Sure, that doesn't make him an expert in every field he turns his attention to, but he is surely as capable as anyone else of becoming expert in whichever field. I'll admit you don't see much evidence of a Chomsky cult in the UK, so I can only judge him by his writings and interviews. I have always found these to be very persuasive. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, Jul 21, 1998 at 15:59:22 (EDT)
From: Gerry Email: None To: nigel Subject: Reagan Message: I don't want to turn this into a discussion of politics, but in defense of Reagan, he was as qualified as anyone to be president. It's not like he came off the studio set into the White House, for god's sake. Being Gov. of Cal is like running a nation. Cal. has the seventh largest economy in the world! He was an intelligent, thoughtful and eminently decent man. His ''Star Wars'' strategy literally scared the Soviet Union into collapse and ended the cold war. He inherited a very difficult economic situation from Jimmy Carter and his policies in this arena laid the basis for our present economic success, for which Clinton (now there's a bum if there ever was one) gladly, though undeservedly takes credit. What's the evidence he was not qualified other than snide jokes and innuendo? I have a basic distrust of liberals in general and Chomsky because of this bias on my part. He was heavily touted by the liberal academic scene when he came to my area to speak, as well as heralded by the poorly written and inconsequential ''workers'' paper here. That alone was enough to warn me off the guy. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, Jul 21, 1998 at 16:29:59 (EDT)
From: Gerry Email: None To: All Subject: Clinton/Hunter Thompson Message: Journalist Hunter S. Thompson tells the New York Post that supporting President Clinton was: 'one of my greatest tactical errors in politics.' . . . . 'I don't want to go down in history or have my son read that his father endorsed Clinton two times,' Mr. Thompson said. . . . . 'I had no idea what a treacherous bastard he really is. I'm shocked he went so low. You'd think after grappling with Richard Nixon that you would know where the low road is, ... but Clinton's treachery is really sleazy. It's his character defects. I think Clinton will prove to be one of the great fascists of our time.' Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, Jul 21, 1998 at 17:14:09 (EDT)
From: Rick Email: None To: Gerry Subject: Reagan Message: Gerry wrote: He (Reagan) was an intelligent, thoughtful and eminently decent man. Gerry, you pinhead! Are you serious? Reagan was a shallow, empty, stupid, corrupt idiot. He was a morally bankrupt embarrassment to humanity. You're right about discussing politics, though... a lot of expended energy without much reward. But really, you seemed like such a thoughtful and decent man, Gerry. How could you think this? Only a heartless bigot could like Reagan. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, Jul 21, 1998 at 17:49:23 (EDT)
From: Gerry Email: None To: Rick Subject: Reagan Message: But Rick, he sounded so, well, grandfatherly, didn't he? I never met him but from what I read, on the personal level, he had non of the egotistical nastiness that characterizes a lot of politicians. He at least believed in what he said, and his actions befitted his principles. I expected to get hammered over my defense of Ray-gun so maybe I am a pinhead after all. I just don't see corruption or stupidity in him, and whether or not we agree with them, he certainly lived his life according to his moral principles. Could a stupid person get elected to all the high offices he did and function at that level if they really were stupid? I guess, by inference, I'm a heartless bigot. Certainly I have prejudices I'm not proud of, there's no value in pretending. I don't believe this defines me as a person any more than my believing BM was something special did. What I really find interesing in all this is that for every argument A, someone advance a B and the friction between the two points of view provides the energy for both participants to grow in understanding. The dialectic at work. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, Jul 21, 1998 at 17:33:19 (EDT)
From: JW Email: None To: Gerry Subject: Reagan Message: Well, Gerry. Geez, where do I begin? I don't think Reagan was qualified to be governor of California either, so that doesn't help me much. We are still dealing with the damage he caused here in this state. His star wars plan was an absolute joke and the Russians knew it. It didn't scare them one bit. It was nothing but a transfer of money from taxpayers to military contractors, some of Reagan's best friends. Even if it had been successful, the Russians would have just fired twice as many missles to overload the system. It was nothing more than a recipe for an arms race. But it never came close to being a credible defense, so it was toothless. We are still spending $4 billion a year on star wars and yet the military hasn't, all these years later, ever come close to hitting anything that remotely resembles a missle. Their tests are an absolute embarrassment. It was been a miserable failure and yet we are still spending billions on it, but, thankfully, a lot less than when Reagan was in office. Even the Patriot missle system that was used in the Gulf War, missed many more missles than it ever hit. That, of course, wasn't revealed until some many months after the war. To look at the TV footage one would have thought the missles were a raving success. No, what Reagan did in regard to the Russians was just force them to spend their way into economic collapse. During Reagan's terms the US spent over a trillion dollars on the military and the Soviets couldn't keep up. Of course, this was justified by totally over-blowing the military capability of the Soviet Union. Reports now show that the Soviets were never as militarily strong as the pentagon said when it asking for inflated military budgets. They were never told, for example, that the Soviet Union was disintigrating. Funny how that just came up all the sudden, right? Of course this spending meant we weren't spending on schools, infrastructure and kids. Hence, our school systems suck, the infrastructure in disintegrating, and we have higher poverty rates for children than any industrialized country. Notice how the Japanese and the Germans have higher standards of living than we do, but spent little on ther militaries compared to us? Wonder if there is any connection. He inherited a very difficult economic situation from Jimmy Carter and his policies in this arena laid the basis for our present economic success, for which Clinton (now there's a bum if there ever was one) gladly, though undeservedly takes credit. You're kidding, right. Remember what George Bush called 'voodoo economics?' Reagan QUADRUPLED the national debt. It increased from one to FOUR trillion dollars during his administration. And the annual budget deficit was the largest in history, and and stayed that way for a good ten years. For the following 15 years we have been paying it off. Just finally, this year, the deficit is gone. And although I am not a Clinton fan either, it was his economic package in 1993, which didn't even get ONE republican vote (Gore had to vote the tie-breaker) that FINALLY brought us out of the Reagan economic death spiral. He believed in the stupid 'supply-side economics' (aka 'voodoo economics'). He said that by cutting taxes, economic growth would be so great that it would overcome any deficits. Yeah, right. To say it didn't work is an understatement. Again, this ended up, rather than reducing the debt, it quadrupled it. And the legacy went on for many years of cleaning up the mess. That economic police (remember the 'Laffer Curve?) is thoroughly discreted these days and considered a joke. Heard anyone besides the most wacko right-wingers who even suggest it anymore? The republicans ran away from it screaming, it was such a failure. Other wonderful things Reagan did: He cut back on environmental protections in the name of big business, including trying to eliminate the endangered species act, drilling the GANWR in Alaska, and wanted to drill for oil off the California coast. He also helped gut the clean air act. Some of these have been strengthened since he left office. He destroyed the progressive income tax, cutting taxes on the rich and INCREASING taxes, through increased payroll taxes, on the middle class and poorer workers. That was his scheme: the rich get richer and the poor get poorer.; He fought a couple of dirty wars in Central America, backing death squads in El Salvador, Guatamala and Nicaragua. When Congres cut off funding, he operated an illegal operation out of the basement of the white house, getting money by selling missles to Iran and drugs to US kids; He invaded Granada to take attention away from the fact that he got 250 marines killed in Beruit the week before; He oppposed raising the minimum wage, which did not raise one cent during his administration; He basically declared war on labor unions, starting out with firing all the air traffic controllers; He opposed sanctions on aparthied South Africa, and even vetoed sanctions legislation passed by Congress, which, even though the Senate was controlled by the republicans, passed it OVER his veto. He opposed reinstatement of the Voting Rights Act, which again, was passed OVER his veto. He appointed Willliam Rehnquist to chief justice of the Supreme Court, thank you very much. Don't forget James Watt, Ed Meese, Oliver North, and that corrupt woman and the EPA, whose name I can't recall. Basically, he left office with the world, a dirtier, poorer place than when he entered office, except for him and a few of his rich friends than before he went into it. I don't know Reagan was dumb or not. But he sure wasn't good for the country, in my opinion. |
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Date: Tues, Jul 21, 1998 at 17:57:37 (EDT)
From: nigel Email: nigel@redcrow.demon.co.uk To: JW Subject: Phew! What could anybody.. Message: ...possibly add to that? Maybe that Reagan's wife's astrologer fixed all the important dates in his calendar... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, Jul 21, 1998 at 18:21:32 (EDT)
From: Gerry Email: None To: JW Subject: Reagan Message: JW, That was quite a post, thank you. I guess I will have to concede to your far greater awareness and astuteness here. It's a complicated world and I probably pay it far less attention than I should. I appreciate the effort you put into this. But geez he seemed like such a sweet old guy on TV... Seriously, though, people have told me I should get out more. The reality is I don't have TV, or read newspapers or magazines consistently. Thank god for the net. It has brought me back into a world from which I had retreated to an astonishing degree. I think I'll stay out of political discussions for a while. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Jul 22, 1998 at 01:17:39 (EDT)
From: Carol Email: None To: JW Subject: Reagan Message: Wasn't it Reagan's sec. of Interior, Watts who said, 'If you've seen one tree you've seen them all'? Or was it Reagan? I agree, he was horrible for those with environmental interests, which should be us all! Carol Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Jul 22, 1998 at 17:34:20 (EDT)
From: runamok Email: lotuspower@aol.com To: nigel, jw, jim @ the gang Subject: chumps that we are, cont. Message: Talking about Reagan, Clinton and my dog will tend to become an unmanagable discussion. A point or two with closure in mind and then we can all continue with a wild conversation about politics and religion, conceivably while playing poker and smoking cigars. Yeah, Chomp did do some good stuff. It's the cult aspect where people just kind of assume he is always right that I am talking about in a critical light. The press, to be sure, can play politics. It took years and years for me to accept the full (possible) impact of Kennedy's assasination probably because of a complacent press which couldn't accept it either. What I'm talking about has to with authority. We were gullible enough to have been duped by Rawatt. Likewise, we were and are duped by less virulent con games which take place in the arena of media and fame. I assume Chompsky to be a reasonably good guy who is a bit of a snob. It would take considerable research to comment on him in his field with any authority. Where I stick to my guns is in saying that he should be able to traverse the gray area between politics and linguistics a little more fluently. He's telling you that journalists are not working with objectivity- or so he claims. He is in effect claiming to analyse their language, semantics and/or rhetoric for its objectivity without saying how. He just asserts authority somehow to people who want to believe it. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Jul 22, 1998 at 21:31:43 (EDT)
From: nigel Email: None To: runamok Subject: chumps that we are, cont. Message: Sounds like a potentially valid point, Runamok. You may be familiar with writings of his that I'm not. The political commentary that I've read was strictly political, but I can see that if Chomsky has drawn upon his linguistic authority to make political points then we're into the 'trust me, I'm an expert' scene where people feel intimidated into not criticisizing where criticism might be warranted. I'll keep an eye out. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, Jul 21, 1998 at 14:48:54 (EDT)
From: JW Email: None To: nigel Subject: Chomsky cont'd - JW Message: I think it's also interesting that after Gary Webb, at San Jose Mercury News wrote that the CIA was involved in drug trafficing, to the point of importing drugs to East Los Angeles to raise money for the Contras in Nicaragua, he was attacked visciously and fired from his job. The Mercury News withdrew the story. So, now, the CIA has prepared a report, which has been seen by a number of people, that seems to support what Gary Webb was saying. The CIA WAS involved in drug trafficing, overlooked drug smuggling, and hired known drug dealers to get money and weapons to the contras. Never mind that the contras were murderers (the brain-dead Reagan called them 'freedom fighters' who were 'the moral eqivalent to the founding fathers'), drugs were sold in the US to finance their dirty war as well. Unfortunately, the CIA is now considering whether to release a 'summary' of the report (read: 'whitewash') or to release a redacted version (read: 'whitewash with a lot of black ink.') The press was complicit in my opinion in failing to write about the US complicity with the contras and the lengths the US went to to support them. Until, of course, the Iran-Contra scandal got exposed. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jul 18, 1998 at 19:24:46 (EDT)
From: nigel Email: nigel@redcrow.demon.co.uk To: Everyone Subject: guru in my wallet Message: (where the money ought to be...) Yesterday the other half handed me an old wallet she had found in a cupboard and asked if I wanted to keep it. I took it and idly glanced within, and immediately realised I too have been unconsciously guilty of revisionism for a while now. Atheist these last ten years? I was lying. Only a premie for four dedicated years, and four more half-hearted years? - again I was lying. There was a big photo of (eighties Knowledge-lite) Maharaji in the back pocket of the wallet, and I was still using this wallet in 1991! - in spite of having got into Dawkins in 1987. I was never a premie! Honest, officer! I was only playing cards with 'em. Have mercy, squire! Own up time. From 1976 to 1991, sixteen stupid years, I regarded Guma Maharuji as at least maybe 'the superior power in person'. Even after my major disillusionment at the ridiculous 1986 Birmingham event, I still kept this wretched superstitious talisman in my purse another five years. Probably not wanting to finally admit the truth that there is no truth, are no gurus, and that I am nobody special. Wasn't being somebody special a major part of the appeal? Since finding this forum my deepest sympathies have always been for people who spent a whole decade in the ashram. I have admired their battle-scars and war-wounds. But I am not sure this the true measure of Guru Maharaj Ji's damage. There are also 'fringe' premies of 25 years standing who still post here and are clearly to most of us only marginally damaged (and to themselves, not at all). The measure of mindwarp inflicted probably has more to do with how totally you committed yourself, however briefly, and the circumstances in which that commitment was made. My initial involvement centred around my brother's long illness and inevitable death. My recovery from that wretched episode I used to attribute wholly to my having received Knowledge (as if non-premies never get over things!) My complete recovery from Knowledge I attribute to one thing only. EDUCATION!!! Get one while you can. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jul 18, 1998 at 19:35:46 (EDT)
From: Gail Email: None To: nigel Subject: guru in my wallet Message: Do all the Nigels in Britain carry a purse? I loved your post. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jul 18, 1998 at 20:14:36 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Gail Subject: You stole my joke! Message: Gail, Will you please let me post first from now on? Really, it's important to me. Nigel, First PT confesses now you. My turn. I'm a forum junkie and I don't know what to do about it. Even now, Laurie and her friend are out walking around at some annual outdoor art show. I've got a billion bills waiting to send out stacked behind me. But all I can do is this. How'd you break away and what are you going to do THIS time to control yourself better? I know we've talked about this privately but I think it's a topic everyone might have some interest in. Wouldn't it be diabolically ironic if,after finally gettin our lives back from the fat, little Indian vampire, we tossed them back into the fire of post-game discussion? Oh yeah, like you, I didn't REALLY see through Maharaji until I saw through the illusion of design, courtesy of Dawkins and friends. Okay Gail, you can post now. :) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jul 18, 1998 at 22:01:23 (EDT)
From: nigel Email: nigel@redcrow.demon.co.uk To: Jim Subject: You stole my joke! Message: Tell me about it. The thing I hate most is there's a whole internet out there I have hardly even looked at, full of stuff I would love to go browsing. But I have to lock up the modem and miss all of it because of this stupid forum. I have my own website which I have hardly started building. And also I used to appreciate something called sleep. Addiction has never been properly defined. The best I can thing of is 'a compulsion to do and enjoy that which other people prefer you not to.' What the hell. Enjoy! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jul 18, 1998 at 23:21:16 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: nigel Subject: We need to do this right Message: Let's face it, Nige, As addictions go -- and who cares what you call it -- this one's pretty fucking insidious. Addicted to discussion? Addicted to maintaining a bit of a camp office in the fields outside the castle walls? Addicted to a few laughs and unravelling a mystique that once enslaved me for the better part of a decade? I feel, at times, like that guy in Brainstorm, Natalie Wood's last film. You know, the guy who spliced together a continuous loop of having sex with these two girls. Of course he died in the lab, so to speak. We're just not preapred for this level of interaction. Think about it. Most of us will never meet. Yet we could end up spending hours a week communicating with each other for years. (Did I say 'week'? Well let's leave it at that.) What happens when one of us dies hopefully years from now? Does anyone go to the funeral? Why bother? And wouldn't that be kind of weird? You never meet in life but make a point of trekking here and there for some symbolic farewell. Like who ARE you to me? Are you a real enough person that I can count you among my friends? Okay, say you are. Does that mean that I should stop whatever I'm doing day or night just to see what else you might be saying? Even with our best friends,we mangae ourselves a little more discriminately than that. But then our other friends aren't on our computer screens. Chris, below, has suggested that I try to get my brain hard-wired or something. Thansk Chris, but I'm not sure if that's the answer. I'm still trying to make a living supposedly. We need to figure out some helpful guidelines, principles, rules, whatever you want to call them, for 'intelligent' participation here. If you give some dogs or cats too much food they'll eat themselves to death. We've been starved for communciation about Maharaji in particular, plus this medium's kind of fun. But we need to learn how to control ourselves. I am seriously out of control myself. You know how many hours a day I spend here? A lot. Nigel, everyone, -- eveyone interested, that is -- let's see if we can't work out some guidelines to make this a manageable activity rather than a big impingement. Is it even possible? Some of us have a lot more responsibility than others, time wise. Some of us are a lot more derelict in their duties than others. But there should be some guidelines, eh? I'd hate to have to pull out my own modem but I can't let this literally take over my life. Jim Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jul 18, 1998 at 23:39:29 (EDT)
From: VP Email: None To: Jim Subject: We need to do this right Message: I have met Katie and talked to a couple of people on the phone. There is going to be a get together details will come to you and others by email as we get closer. Meeting makes it not so weird afterall. I do not expect you to come to my funeral, but maybe to my lair. (Good one, PT) Time management on the net is a problem. But one post like Gail's first or Becky's first or a journey entry like TD's makes that time spent pretty worthwhile for me. Have you tried setting an alarm and turning off the machine when it goes off--no matter what? Neither have I. What is time when you are fighting the force of darkness? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jul 18, 1998 at 23:53:41 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: VP Subject: We need to do this right Message: A get-together sounds cool. We've bandied the idea around at different times. Initially, Scott Perry and I talked about going to some resort near him in Florida. Now I want to go to Vegas. I'm already planning to go to your funeral, Veep. So don't you worry about a thing. You're right about time-management. There's something here every day -- whether it be sublimely funny, new, good information, a new ex, or an out-to-lunch premie. Sometimes it's just a good, thoughtful thread (although, I feel like I haven't had a new thought in years!). Hey, at the very least it's achance to argue with friends, right? It's 8:49 p.m. right now. I got up froma nap and logged on at 8. My girlfriend called and is coming over a little later, we're going to have a band practice. I said I'd try to get a walk in outside. They SAY it was a nice day today. But, dear friend, here I am talking with you. Maybe the time limit thing's the way to go. Maybe I should give myself two hours max a day no matter what. The trouble is the net just got so cheap here ($20 to $30 bucks a month unlimited). So it's not like I can count on my server to boot me off. And now, of course, I want to hear what you or anyone else says in response. And, before I go, I NEED to refresh the page just to see. And then I need to check out the AP Newswire to see what kind of propaganda THEY'RE trying to fill me with, eh Joe? And then there's those damn dirty pictures.... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sun, Jul 19, 1998 at 00:01:16 (EDT)
From: If I don't answer Email: None To: Jim Subject: you can take your walk... Message: That sounds like some of my days/nights on the net (minus the dirty pics of course...) Have a great time at band practice and with your girlfriend. It's the witching hour here and I'm going to sleep before I turn into a pumpkin. VP Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sun, Jul 19, 1998 at 19:35:22 (EDT)
From: Selena Email: None To: If I don't answer Subject: you can take your walk... Message: I mentioned trying t o finish one of the two books I am reading. Guess why I haven't? This forum is seductive. And I have it even worse my internet access is free, it's part of what I do at work and I have the very best equipment. It is a diabolical plot. I have always gotten bored with newgroups or whatever before. This time I am hooked, first because I came here sincerely in need of help, not that long ago. Now it's because well, I still need help but also I am fascinated by the latest M gossip, etc. That thread about the blueprints has sealed my doom I am now officially hooked. Nigel, it' s not about people not wanting me to do it. So,. I am not sure why but I get addicted to anything I like. And the intimacy thing is scary indeed. I would be OK meeting some people but I am basically a detached type of person, kind of introverted ( I just figured that out, all these years I had thought I was extrovered) so... not sure how far I would take the meeting people stuff although there are some that I would gladly do that with. I am taking your post seriouly Jim because I am addicted. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Jul 22, 1998 at 01:04:39 (EDT)
From: carol Email: None To: Selena Subject: you can take your walk... Message: Selena, you said 'I am basically a detached type of person, kind of introverted'. Me too! I like to have a few, or even one really good friend that will go do stuff with me that my husband doesn't like, such as hearing live music and going to movies. Lately my old friends just haven't been available. It's kind of hard making new friends. I make new friends volunteering at hospice, but they always die! My experiences in life have made me kind of unusual, as others here have said. I like to talk about controversial and personal ideas and feelings, and I hate phoniness and small talk, unless it's for fun and we know it. I can relate to many different types of people 'though. I feel like many of the ex's are becoming or are friends that I could easily meet in person. I liked meeting Gerry and his wife and hope to see them again before too long. Carol Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jul 23, 1998 at 17:42:57 (EDT)
From: Selena Email: None To: carol Subject: those personality tests lie Message: Hi Carol They categorize me as an extrovert. After an awful childhood I ended up in adolescence horribly shy and I couldn't talk to people. I mean at all! It was awful, I got accused a lot of being stuckup, etc.. My ex husband's mother used to call me 'the little princess' because it made her so mad that I wouldn't (couldn't) talk to her. Somewhere along the line, out of basic survival needs, I learned how to shine it on and I got REALLY good at it, and of course went overboard - life of the party type, etc.. Now I feel more confident and am becoming more quiet, because I now know that it's OK to be quiet, it's a choice and I am *not* being quiet because I am terrified of people but instead just because I want to. So it's kind of like exploring new territory and that's why I am not sure about meeting lots of people I only know through here but more and more I am thinking it would be fun!! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sun, Jul 19, 1998 at 21:23:42 (EDT)
From: RT Email: leet me go to the bathroom first. To: Jim Subject: We click to do this right Message: Signs that you are spending too much time on-line: 1. You wake up at 3 am to go to the bathroom and stop to check your e-mail on the way back to bed. 2. You name your pet cats Eudora, Dotorg and Dotcom. 3. All your friends have an @ in their names. 4. You tell the cabdriver you live at http://1000.edison.garden/house/brick.html 5. You think there should be some kind of vows for Ex-Premie 's online. 6. (your turn Jim. Let's see you get this up to 10) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Jul 20, 1998 at 20:28:49 (EDT)
From: JW Email: None To: Jim Subject: To Jim: It's Understandable Message: Jim, I would suggest you have some compulsive tendencies, as do I. But it's understandable that the forum interests you now. Remember a year ago when you spent all your time arguing with CD and OP? Now you just spend half your time arguing with CD only. Now, in my opinion, the whole M cult is starting to unravel. I really think it is. People are just coming out of the woodwork and reading and posting on this website. And I'm finding out all kinds of stuff about Maharaj Ji that just confirms what I already believed, that he is an unbelievable slimeball. This, after an initial feeling of let-down, is wonderful for my self-esteem and makes me so happy that I got out when I did. I mean, god. The fact that his palacial residence blueprints are posted on the internet must have his undies in a bunch! Especially considering what a paranoid, control and security freak he is. Fine with me, and it's about time! And you had a lot to do with getting this thing going, and it must feel kind of cool that it's really taking off. You are entitled to see that and you really should. You deserve a lot of the credit. Why tear away now, when it's all really starting to happen? This is the first time in history anyone has taken an organized stance in exposing Maharaji for the fraud he is, and also helping premies and ex-premies in the process. The fact that it's working makes it all the better. Here is a test for you Jim regarding forum compulsiveness. Do this, as a good exercise in gaining self control. Use some self control and DO NOT respond to my very effective, incredibly logical, argumentally devestating, well-written, really-put-you-in-your-place response to your really illogical and unsupportable position regarding Chomsky and the media, down a couple of threads. Yes, Jim, if you can do that, you have come a long way in the healing process.:) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sun, Jul 19, 1998 at 20:01:52 (EDT)
From: SElena Email: None To: Jim Subject: junkies like me Message: I commented right up there above but it looks too far over to the right and I am hoping and praying someone answers so I brought it back, so to speak. How's that for obsession? very good Selenie, good enuf to make you log off and read your book. go!! now!!! I mean it!! Katie it's still Almanac for god's sake! but it is down to the last few chapters. really. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sun, Jul 19, 1998 at 21:45:24 (EDT)
From: cpnone Email: None To: SElena Subject: junkies like me Message: ya. I been drinking organic instant coffee and reading the forum for too long now. in between sessions I am i a daze. very cleansing though. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Jul 20, 1998 at 11:54:11 (EDT)
From: Katie Email: None To: SElena, Jim, Nigel, all Subject: Forum addiction - my 2 cents Message: Here's my somewhat disconnected thoughts on forum addiction vs forum benefits: 1. The forum stacks up pretty well when compared to other addictions (and people can get addicted to ANYTHING). I have a friend who often spends just as much time as I spend on line playing computer games: solitaire, mindsweeper, etc. I am not sure how he does this because I find it incredibly boring, but I do think reading and posting on the forum is preferable to that. 2. I do use the forum and associated e-mail as a support group, and also as a way I can 'give back' by providing support to other people. It's been really helpful to me (and I hope I've helped others in turn as well.) I see this as very positive. 3. I do feel close to the people I've met here, especially the people who I share e-mail with. Maybe this is an cybernetic illusion, but when I met VP, I felt like we already DID know each other, and I didn't have any problem reconciling VP on-line with the real VP. Also, my husband and I have moved a lot, so I communicate with most of my friends in 'the real world' electronically too. I have had trouble meeting people that I can really talk to in the small town that I live in, so the forum has helped me a lot in that regard. 4. Re: forum interfering with my job. It doesn't, but I work weird hours, it's not a career-type job, and I can't post at work like most of the rest of you can. It seems like a lot of the rest of the people here often post at work when they have something especially boring and disagreeable to do (for example, Jim seems to post a lot when he has to do billing.) 5. I don't get to use my brain very much at work, so I really enjoy the opportunity to THINK that's provided by the forum. My husband feels that it's had a very positive effect on me in that regard (he also feels this about the on-line friendships I've made). 6. I have been able to pull back from reading and posting when the forum starts to affect my life negatively. For example, when I get really worried or upset about something that happened on the forum that I cannot do anything about, then I know it's time to take a break for a few days or more. BUT for people who are worried that they can't pull back or stop, and who feel that the forum is affecting their ability to work or have personal relationships: here are a few practical options (I am sure there are more, but here's what I can think of right now): -Brian can block your ISP. You'd still be able to read but not post. -Brian can limit you to one to five messages per day, if you still would like to be able to post in a limited way. He spent a lot of time writing this software, so it would be nice if someone took advantage of it (I'm kidding, but it is an option). -If you are really hard-core, ask your ISP to give you an e-mail only account at work or at home. Or both. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Jul 20, 1998 at 12:03:49 (EDT)
From: Katie Email: None To: SElena Subject: to Selena/book recommendation Message: Dear Selena - I am NOT all that shocked that you are still reading 'Almanac' - it is 750 pages long and not exactly light reading! ('Almanac of the Dead', by Leslie Marmon Silko, for anyone else who is interested) I do have another book recommendation for you and everyone who is interested in the forum VS the real world. This book is floating around between JW and eb right now, but I got it at Amazon.com. It's called 'Prozac Highway', it's by Persimmon Blackridge, and it's about a listserv (group e-mail) on the topic of mental health. It reminded me a LOT of the forum. (One caveat: it does contain explicit lesbian sex, so if that bugs anyone, you probably ought to skip it.) If anyone is thinking about writing about the forum, this would be a good book to read. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jul 18, 1998 at 18:09:23 (EDT)
From: Judith Hodges Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Metamorphosis Message: Hi everyone. Now that I have become my self, and sent my Journeys record in to the lovely Brian of the best web master in the universe address, I can reveal my truly ordinary but extroadinary self to you. When I was 16/17 in 1972/73 I had a series of pre-cognitive dreams just before or just after I took LSD. My first trip was called 'Clear Light' and it was on a commune in the country. I was just starting to write stories and planning my life. I wanted to travel more than anything. Well all these years I have remembered and then forgotten these dreams, at different times. I had several others at 'peak times' in my life; about another two times. Each time these dreams would guide me in some important way. So to cut to the chase, one of the awarnesses I had back then, as well as realising I could astral travel & had been doing so since a young child was this concept of metamorphosis. I was going to a school called 'Chiron College.' Chiron you will recall is the 'wounded healer' or teacher (half man half beast) of mythology (a centaur). In this dream or vision I saw that one day there would be a metamorphosis - going from a grub to a butterfly is a metamorphosis example. Well I feel that now there are many metamorphoses going on to many people all over the world. The changes you who have known me since I first posted are just an example. So have courage and faith everyone because new times are here. The work has been done and now we must all open our hearts, forgive one another and learn how to love and share for the first time. That is how we will keep our world alive. Lots of love to you all 'lovers' remember what Maharaji taught you that was valuable and just let the rest go! that's the best advice I can give to anyone He seems to be wanting your forgiveness because he's now released a bunch of butterflies into the world and is very proud of his role in that journey. That's just my inner vision of what is happening, and I believe Maharaji is a great teacher who also made mistakes; but if he hadn't he would have been God, and that's too much, now isn't it? Best wishes everyone Know thyself The truth shall set you free Do unto others Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jul 18, 1998 at 22:27:54 (EDT)
From: Scott T. Email: None To: Judith Hodges Subject: Metamorphosis Message: Judith: and I believe Maharaji is a great teacher who also made mistakes; but if he hadn't he would have been God, I knew a dog named Aspen who never made mistakes. The only perfect being I ever knew, but I don't understand the 'great teacher' thing. I can't recall ever learning anything from Maharaji, although I learned a great deal during that period of my life. For Maharaji to take credit for that would require some sort of connection that I just don't see. Not only did he not know the people from whom, and with whom, I learned those lessons, but in my opinion he is himself incapable of learning anything. If he wants our fogiveness it would be an easy matter to ask for it. Jim is longing for that. But, that would mean he'd also have to acknowledge he was a 'prick' rather than a 'great teacher,' and would probably have to stop. To a large extent George Wallace made that metamorphosis. I just don't see Maharaji doing it. Not even a sign, unless I've missed something. -Scott Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sun, Jul 19, 1998 at 01:38:09 (EDT)
From: Mark Appleman Email: None To: Judith Hodges Subject: Metamorphosis Message: I'd say great students despite a mediocre teacher the quality of people attracted especially in the 70's when this was the first 'i am God come to liberate you' trip was sensational! pick of the litter ! as the teacher failed to develop in any area except media production spiritual appetite or disillusionment took over thinning the ranks those that choose to devotionally masturbate a couple times a year are all that remain we are Gods! at the very least top drawer whatever Greatness you give M is a part of you you fail to accept we can all be conditioned to go into a certain state in a certain situation whether its a peep show or a program A GREAT TEACHER ELICITS GREATNESS IN THEIR STUDENTS> Criteria not met w/M Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sun, Jul 19, 1998 at 03:03:18 (EDT)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Judith Hodges Subject: Metamorphosis Message: Dear Judith Hodges, It has been so good to watch your metamorphosis from untrusting and unsure to making huge strides in confidance and trust. Congradulations, dear. Love, Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sun, Jul 19, 1998 at 03:53:16 (EDT)
From: Keith Email: None To: Judith Subject: Metamorphosis Message: Judith, I have not been privy to your metamorphosis...but I liked your post. Whatever else Maharaji is and isn't I still count him as one of the great teachers of the twentieth century. But I am gradually realising that great teachers (and great individuals as such) can also have glaring weaknesses. Maharaji has made (and still does) some glaring errors. For instance he has and does claim to be (and poses as) the perfect master. The definition of perfect master as a master who knows and can show perfection is linguistically idiotic. The emphasis is on the word 'master'. A perfect mechanic would be understood as a mechanic who is perfect 'as a mechanic'. A perfect master means that a master is perfect 'as a master'. But as a master of what??? It's clear that the intended meaning of perfect master IS NOT a master of perfection...but just a sly way of saying 'I Maharaji am the enlightened all knowing ONE'. Maharaji is a master....of words...or rather a master of using words in an ingenious way ....that initially sounds like wisdom incarnate.....but on deeper critical analysis (which He regards as an inferior motion of wayward mind... convienently) dispersed among some true ageless wisdom are discovered many inconsistencies, half-truths and self deceptions. (Conscious lies ...I'm not sure about). Knowledge itself.. I have no argument with....except to say the way Maharaji has packaged it for obedient premie consumption is authoritarian and stupidly tyrannical. Maharaji is simply not humble, despite his persona that can appear to be so if one sees perfection where it exists not. Humility means knowing ones limits and behaving appropriately. A humble knower would never claim to be a perfect master....BECAUSE 'KNOWLEDGE IS NEVER ABSOLUTE ...AND THEREFORE IS NEVER PERFECT' ... and if Maharaji knows the perfection (as I believe he does) then why does he not humbly say ...I am not perfect but I know the perfect. Thereby bridging the gulf between himself and his students....which would empower all concerned ... I could go on ....but the point is ....I believe that the human consciousness is an admixture of many inpurities and a purity that is defiled the moment the mind attempts to express or manifest THAT PURITY....THAT PERFECTION.... in ways (ideas, actions , symbols, ect) that claim to be PERFECT. Maharaji could reveal some of his imperfections if he chose. But that would really change the entire game-plan. It's a shame! If he dropped the psychological crown I would cry with joy! Regards , Keith Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sun, Jul 19, 1998 at 14:22:48 (EDT)
From: Scott T. Email: None To: Keith Subject: Metamorphosis Message: Keith: You have undergone a metamorphosis of sorts yourself. -Scott Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sun, Jul 19, 1998 at 15:21:54 (EDT)
From: Gail Email: None To: Scott T. Subject: Being the Master Message: To me, MJ is not particularly spectacular. He has only fulfilled what his programming told him to do. Probably, there are many posting on this net who could have done a better bang-up job of the masta than he has if they had the correct tutilage from birth. Think of it. YOU COULD HAVE BEEN THE MASTER. I guess you don't get to choose your parents afterall, do you? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sun, Jul 19, 1998 at 19:12:10 (EDT)
From: Keith Email: None To: Scott T. Subject: Metamorphosis Message: Scott, You're right. Thanks for pointing that out. Although I feel that I'm in a metamorphical process that is at times quite volatile. Last night I seemed to encounter some disturbing emotions and thoughts....that I had no previous idea existed. Keith Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, Jul 21, 1998 at 12:36:24 (EDT)
From: pam Email: None To: Keith Subject: Admitting imperfections Message: When was the last time you listened to M. speak or to a video? He does sometime admit his shortcomings (albeit rarely). Just asking so that, if you update yourself, you might actually have the chance to cry for joy. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, Jul 21, 1998 at 08:26:44 (EDT)
From: Richard Email: None To: Judith Hodges Subject: Metawhat? Message: Dear Judith, it's nice to see that you are doing so well and your good thoughts are welcome. I am genuinely pleased that your life is changing for the better and have no wish to ring the old negativity bell but, (having sat on my hands for two whole days) He seems to be wanting your forgiveness because he's now released a bunch of butterflies into the world and is very proud of his role in that journey. If he wants my forgiveness he will have to ask... My main concern here is to prevent him getting his hands on a whole new batch of catterpillars so's they can metamorphise into the butterfly of their choice and in their own time... Yeah I'm sure he is proud, always, despite everything... Richard Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Jul 22, 1998 at 05:37:45 (EDT)
From: Richard Email: None To: Judith Subject: Sorry to dump Judith... Message: Dear Judith, I just read my post and wish I hadn't sent it (should've sat on my hands for a bit longer). Got me on a bad day. Your post was great and, after all you've been thru, very inspiring. I thank you for all your kind words and support in the past. Take the best care, Richard Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, Jul 21, 1998 at 15:02:24 (EDT)
From: Carol Email: coopmtncarol@hotmail.com To: Judith Hodges Subject: Metamorphosis Message: Dear Judith/FW I read your journey entry. I still haven't done mine.... I'm glad we have have been caterpillars and butterflies together! Carol Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jul 18, 1998 at 15:22:57 (EDT)
From: natural enquirer Email: None To: Our legal consultants Subject: hypothetical divine divorce Message: If lets say a very wealthy cult leaders wife became very unhappy and wanted out....what sort of settlement would she get? How would they 'discover' all the $$$$? In California a long term marraige it is basically split everything up the middle...right? If this is at all interesting please share your insights.... How do you split all these gifts? If they are gifts to him is it joint property? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jul 18, 1998 at 16:23:55 (EDT)
From: nigel Email: nigel@redcrow.demon.co.uk To: natural enquirer Subject: hypothetical divine divorce Message: Sorry Marolyn, I have no idea. But I am sure Jim will handle the cross-examination of your husband free of charge, and JW will gladly investigate the EV finances and look up the legal precedents etc. Just don't call us 'assholes' again, that's all. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jul 18, 1998 at 16:37:54 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: nigel Subject: hypothetical divine divorce Message: Nigel, Why assume it's Marolyn asking? You know how many cults there are in California? This could one of several women. But whoever you are, I'd suggest you contact my friend, Linda Gross. She's a family lawyer in Santa Monica. You're bound to like her. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jul 18, 1998 at 18:10:21 (EDT)
From: Mr Ex Email: None To: natural enquirer Subject: Some tears to shed Message: over your past involvement .... Many did, I did, you can. Where is your life? Leave the whealthy one in his shit. You'll make new friends. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, Jul 21, 1998 at 10:23:50 (EDT)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Mr Ex Subject: Some tears to shed Message: Dear Mr. Ex, I was almost in tears at reading your posts below and then I read this one and think you are alright and still: Mr. EX. :) It is good to see you here, hope you have been well. Love, Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sun, Jul 19, 1998 at 01:25:04 (EDT)
From: Mark Email: None To: natural enquirer Subject: hypothetical divine divorce Message: don't think he owns anything personally Marolyn I'm sure has checked her options I don't think this is from her sphere of influence. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sun, Jul 19, 1998 at 13:26:56 (EDT)
From: Gail Email: None To: Mark Subject: hypothetical divine divorce Message: MJ always refers to his houses as 'his.' They are probably built with that free GIFT money that pours into Malibu each day. He seems to acknowledge things that belong to EV such as the plane. Can anyone find out? As far as this person's tears are concerned, if it's Marolyn, HASN'T SHE ALREADY CRIED HER OWN PERSONAL RIVER. I remember her telling us in Toronto in 1984 or 85 that she couldn't believe that she was allowed to get close enough to him to smell his breath. Then she started crying. Isn't it amazing what the mind will conjure up. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Jul 20, 1998 at 01:57:15 (EDT)
From: Jean-Michel Email: jmkahn@hol.fr To: Gail Subject: G4's ownership? Message: This is a very complicated matter, and still confidential. Would you mind emailing me to discuss this with a little privacy? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jul 18, 1998 at 14:41:09 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Everyone Subject: I'm waiting, PT Message: PT, I'm waiting for your answer. You've 'occupied' (notice how I didn't say 'wasted') a lot of peoples' time with your 'argument' (notice how I didn't say 'foolishness') about the meaning of certain words. I've proposed that we take this out of the premie/ex-premie arena but you've only ignored me. If you don't show your miserable little face around here again, I'll EASILY accept that as a sign that you know the gig's up, you'd make a complete ass of yourself should we actually follow through with my plan and, worm that you are, you don't have the honesty to simply admit defeat. Alternatively, if you do post again, let's get on with it. Give me an answer, please, and don't stall. Frankly, I think this'll be fun. Don't you? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jul 18, 1998 at 17:01:21 (EDT)
From: nigel Email: nigel@redcrow.demon.co.uk To: Jim Subject: I'm waiting, PT Message: It could be a long wait, Jim. I was just thinking wouldn't it be fun if we could get PT and Pam slugging it out with one another. (Have you noticed how the premies here, even when they are posting simultaneously, never seem to talk to each other? . Makes you wonder whether they're maybe doing service...) Anyway pam says: From what I've gathered from M there isn't a 'lineage,' i.e. there isn't a family tree or teachings that get passed on that entitle one to be a 'Master.' It's not something you become, it's something you are. (Is it in the genes? Three masters in the Rawat family after all) while PT says: An embodiment of god is not god... We are all embodiments of god. So if we are all embodiments of god, as PT attests, what is this 'Master' status that we, as mere gods, are unable to become? Why did BM bother to realise knowledge if he was already the Master? If he wasn't already the Master, why can't anybody else become Masters too by practising knowledge? Take some time to confer, premies, you might just get eaten alive. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jul 18, 1998 at 14:01:53 (EDT)
From: carol Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Dreams Message: Yikes, the last two nights in a row, I've had very strange dreams about attending very strange Maharaji events. Maybe I need to give the Forum a rest for awile! Carol Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jul 18, 1998 at 14:10:57 (EDT)
From: Gail Email: None To: carol Subject: Dreams Message: I doubt it's the FORUM. You are probably just acting out the rest of your MJ festival destiny--don't worry--nightmares are free and quicker. At times when I have quit smoking, I dreamt I was. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jul 18, 1998 at 14:27:00 (EDT)
From: Gerry Email: None To: Gail Subject: Dreams Message: Yikes! I rarely remember my dreams and don't make an effort to, but I remember last night's cinetomagraphy: a very vivid and realistic picture of Mt Rainier exploding. The dream sorta faded out in haze of volcanic ash... Must have been the filet mignon for dinner...Damn red meat! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sun, Jul 19, 1998 at 03:12:12 (EDT)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Gerry Subject: Cat Dreams Message: Dear Gerry and all, That subject was just a joke! Your post made me think of a crazy dream I had once, nothing spiritual or scientific in this one. It was a school night for me and my girls while I was in college. I made Jessica write the dream down while I made breakfast and told her. I was making spagehtti sauce in the early morning in a huge pot and had thrown all these shoes in there as a way to clean them. Unexpectedly my parents and some couple who was going to look at my house or something, came by. I served them spagehtti with that sauce on top! Then the scholl bus came for the girls but the driver had Raggedy Ann legs that stuck out of 2 holes in the flat front of the bus and there was no windshield. That is all I remember all these years later, I have the written dream in my cigar box but will spare you all. I LOVE dreams and see many of them as meaningful but am not good at deciphering them. Love, Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Jul 20, 1998 at 16:12:15 (EDT)
From: John Email: None To: Robyn Subject: Free Dream Interpretation Message: Sorry Robyn, you didn't ask for this, but: Shoes represent that part of us that grounds us to all that is solid and real. And they also represent the lowest or basest part of ourselves. They are also extremely important because we use them to make our way through the world. In your dream you are using spaghetti sauce to clean them. Spaghetti sauce represents all that is cheap and common in the world. (Unless of course it's MY spaghetti sauce, then it represents something truly sublime and other worldly.) That's not necessarily bad, that's just economics, and of course dreams are all about the self perceiving the self - or how the self sees the self. Parents often show up in dreams. They can represent expectations, or guilt about our achievements. You let them eat the sauce because you want them to have to accept the commonest, cheapest aspect of yourself. Two cents please! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Jul 20, 1998 at 17:06:07 (EDT)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: John Subject: Free Dream Interpretation Message: Dear John, No I didn't ask but as I am very poor at dream interpritation I am always happy for help. I might have to be insulted about the spaghetti sauce as I am Italian but I guess you were nice enough to try to help I won't hold it against you. No take on the bus, I thought that was so amazing also. Thanks, Robyn checks in the mail! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sun, Jul 19, 1998 at 03:05:10 (EDT)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Gail Subject: Dreams Message: Dear Gail, Me too, about the smoking! Love, Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jul 18, 1998 at 08:40:39 (EDT)
From: Gail Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Atlantic City Brainwashing Message: Hi Folks: Does anyone have information about Atlantic City, July 16, 1998? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jul 18, 1998 at 17:32:55 (EDT)
From: Mr Ex Email: None To: Gail Subject: Program of my life! Message: That was really a beautiful program. I realized how Maharaji is full of love and how full of sh** I am. I'm back at his feet, I just hope he'll forgive me. I'll never repay him for all the love I've experienced in my life. Than you again my Lord. I love you more than ever. I won't forget you anymore, please give me enough strenght, I know you can, I'll do my best efforts. I'll spend all my nights with you, go to sleep in your arms wake up at your feet. What else is there in life? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jul 18, 1998 at 17:41:01 (EDT)
From: VP Email: None To: Mr Ex Subject: Program of my life! Message: WHAT? Is that you Mr. Ex or is someone posting under your name? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jul 18, 1998 at 17:44:15 (EDT)
From: Mr Ex Email: None To: VP Subject: It's ME! Message: Why are you questioning? I've always been a very devoted person .... to my mind, or to Maharaji! I've always been full of doubts. I've had a hard time with my doubt-maker lately, but I'm fine now. What a relief! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jul 18, 1998 at 17:48:25 (EDT)
From: VP Email: None To: Mr Ex Subject: It's ME! Message: So you just went to this program and what happened? You believe in Maharaji again? I'm sorry I didn't understand that last post. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jul 18, 1998 at 17:52:04 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: VP Subject: It's called sarcasm, you dolt! Message: Veep, There are ways to ruin jokes and ways to ruin jokes. What in the world are you trying to do here? Brian, can we get this guy kicked off the page or what? :) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jul 18, 1998 at 17:55:22 (EDT)
From: VP Email: None To: Jim Subject: Sucker born every minute Message: Shit, Jim! You know I'm always falling for that stuff. I am just too damn serious... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jul 18, 1998 at 17:57:53 (EDT)
From: Mr Ex Email: None To: VP Subject: Why kick me off? Message: I'm having fun! Don't you believe in this anymore? I thought this forum was for fun? You're really too serious tonite! What's wrong with you? Not in love with your life anymore? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jul 18, 1998 at 18:03:03 (EDT)
From: VP Email: None To: Mr Ex Subject: Why kick me off? Message: Hey Mr. Ex, Jim wants to kick ME off, not you. I don't want to kick anyone off. I still love my life. It must be that time of the month. (Apologizes to the ladies)...VP P.S. That is the LAST time I worry about you, bub!:) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jul 18, 1998 at 18:28:02 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: VP Subject: No, let's kick them both off! Message: nt Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jul 18, 1998 at 18:41:23 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Jim Subject: Hey, somebody kick me off!! Message: Really guys, I'm so worried about my obsession here. I'm not kidding. I've got a real problem. I've spoken and 'spoken' with several of you about this before but, rally, I've got a problem. I just can't stay away. I honestly need help. Any ideas? I'm seriously considering asking you guys to block my ISP or whatever that things called. I know it's pathetic but what else can I do? Ecercise some self-constraint? Give me a break! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jul 18, 1998 at 19:28:46 (EDT)
From: TD Email: None To: Jim Subject: Net addiction Message: Here's a test to see if you're REALLY addicted to this forum: netaddiction Regards, TD Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jul 18, 1998 at 19:45:08 (EDT)
From: Gail Email: None To: TD Subject: Net addiction Message: I've ever used the net (except for teacher pd days) before June 9, 1998. Now I can't stand not to read and post. I spend less time on the net than I did going to videos, programs, and meditation. It's so theraputic. I guess I'm hooked. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jul 18, 1998 at 20:26:32 (EDT)
From: TD Email: None To: Gail Subject: Net addicts vs. premie addicts Message: I must admit I was getting concerned at the time I have been spending here, but you're right - when you add up all the practising K time, video time, service time, thanking M in your head for all his grace time, looking at his photos time, dusting the EV merchandise time, talking shop with premies time - the time I spend chatting here isn't very much at all!! Cheerio, TD Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jul 18, 1998 at 20:32:01 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: TD Subject: That's NOT reassuring Message: If the only way this habit looks balanced is in comparison to life in a vampire cult, I'm a little worried. Got anything else? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sun, Jul 19, 1998 at 00:47:44 (EDT)
From: Gail Email: None To: Jim Subject: Jim's Addiction Message: Think of it this way, Jim. Everytime you argue with an irrational premie here on the forum, you are practising your craft. If you can win an argument with PT or CD for example, think of what you can do with a jury. Ladies and Gentlemen of the Jury. My client only robbed the TD bank because he was trying to fulfill the ever-increasing desires of his Lord. He is a gullible victim of .... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jul 18, 1998 at 22:04:58 (EDT)
From: CD Email: None To: Jim Subject: Hey, somebody kick me!!! Message: >Any ideas? I'm seriously considering asking you guys to block my ISP or whatever that things called. What you really really need is dedicated DSL. You can and will be even more of your idea that is. Demonstrate to yourself who is the controller of your flow. Your journey into Internet land has barely begun. Brain has just started to cross into the next level of the thoughtscape memefield. Think about it, the transition from the vagaries of LSD and inner pax jelly is about to be completed to the thought power amplification of a DSL flow. Long live the amplified brain of Heller! CD Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sun, Jul 19, 1998 at 11:26:40 (EDT)
From: dvd Email: None To: CD Subject: Hey, somebody kiss me! Message: good one CD Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sun, Jul 19, 1998 at 13:04:23 (EDT)
From: Gail Email: None To: dvd Subject: Hey, somebody kiss me! Message: SMMMMOOOOOOOOOOOCCCHHHHH!. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sun, Jul 19, 1998 at 16:09:20 (EDT)
From: dvd Email: None To: Gail Subject: Hey, somebody kiss me! Message: Where were you during the smoochie tape threads! Thanks for that. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jul 18, 1998 at 19:39:18 (EDT)
From: Gail Email: None To: VP Subject: Sucker born every minute Message: Me too. It's caused from listening to the fat Guru with wide eyes too long. It creates gullibility, n'est pas? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jul 18, 1998 at 22:57:48 (EDT)
From: VP Email: None To: Gail Subject: Gullible? Message: Partly, but in my case I think that most of it is the medium of the written word. (I didn't spend as much time listening to M as some folks here have.) Things can easily be misconstrued. Especially when I do not know the person well enough to know HOW they would say something. Clearly, I do not know Mr. Ex at all. Take Care, Gail. I enjoy your posts very much, BTW :) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jul 18, 1998 at 05:03:39 (EDT)
From: FW Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Quote of the Century Message: 'And the truth shall set ye free' Yahweh Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jul 18, 1998 at 08:18:31 (EDT)
From: Gail Email: None To: FW Subject: Quote of the Century Message: Feeling more free everyday. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jul 18, 1998 at 19:36:36 (EDT)
From: TD Email: None To: FW Subject: Quote of the Century Message: This forum keeps giving me way too much freedom! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jul 18, 1998 at 04:43:54 (EDT)
From: FW Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Transformation Message: Hi all you lovelies. What a sexy bunch of people here! Well, I am going on hols for a little while so may be incommunicado, or, like someone famous I can't remember, I might keep coming back. Who knows? (Hols is aussie/english cool speak for vacation, we're all goin on a summer holiday/ r & r, gimmee a break why don't ya etc.) One last muse while I am in this museful frame, having been through so much discussion and revelations and warm fuzzy sharing and lots of love and connections and joy and rage and the whole damn thing on this Forum about 'the big cheese' and US. Well I have figured out for now, that like all good masters, which Maharaji really is, his students are passing their exams and are setting out into a great adventure, free and whole. We are the caterpillars, now the butterflies, and he loves us very much. He is sorry about the mistakes he has made. Most masters have big egos, like most students, but they don't have to be attached to them. Lucky I can laugh at myself; you guys taught me how to do that. See you in a matter of nanoseconds. FW Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jul 18, 1998 at 00:22:23 (EDT)
From: Brian Email: brian@ex-premie.org To: Everyone Subject: Malibu blueprints Message: I've been sent a page of blueprints for Maharaji's modest little bungalow in Malibu. Since the drawing is WAY too large to put online, I'm entering into a CAD program so that I can shrink it overall and break it into better detail for some .gif files. [Note: a 'foot' is approx 1/3 of a meter.] The drawing I have is just the L-shaped (132 foot sides) lower level of the house, the smaller garage, the upper level (??!!) of the larger garage, a 40-foot by 20-foot pool, and another open structure that looks like it's used for covered entertainment/mini-events (has a bit of a stage). But here's a quick rundown on how Maharaji's mission has benefitted from all of our contributions over the years: 5 bedrooms, each with full bath, fireplace, and patio windows that slide completely into a pocket in the wall (this has GOT to cost big). The 'Master' bedroom lacks these patio windows and instead has a convex 20-foot wall of exterior doors. These I'm guessing to be French-style doors consisting of glass panes, because the room also sports TWO pockets in the walls that something moves into when not closing off the bed area from these doors. The entrance to this bedroom is a set of double-doors, and the plans show a partition that obstructs the view into the 400 square foot room from the hallway. Complimentary His and Hers bathrooms (each the size of the other 4 bedrooms) complete the ensemble. There is no detail of the fixture size and positioning in these 2 baths (as there is in the others) and the exterior walls look like they have glass brick in them. His has 3 each 5-foot sections (we're talking big shitters here, folks) while Hers has a single 14-foot section of this glass. The other 4 bedroom baths also have this on the external walls adjoining the tub areas - 2 are located half-turrets of the stuff jutting out from the house. Also on this level: An office with bathroom (ya just can never have enough of THESE when the owner is full of it) and fireplace, an exercise room, massage room (half-bath), sauna, pantry, dumbwaiter, the lower halves of 2 circular staircases leading to the upper level, and more than enough storage space to house a 2-bedroom home should one ever need to be stored there. The L-shaped hallway connecting all this sports large dust-collecting alcoves suitable for displaying large statues or housing the homeless. There are 2 garages in the drawing, separated from the house by an enclosed 'Pool Corridor' (about 60-foot) that runs along next to the pool. The little 3-car garage is adjoining the house, and the larger 9-car garage (upper level) shares a common 'motor-court' - an approx 80-foot by 40-foot enclosed driveway. The larger garage also contains reception (??!!) and office space, and a stairway leading down to whatever is on the LOWER floor of the garage. It was this or World Peace, and we all have tough decisions to make. If anyone has any drawings of the UPPER level(s?) of this little cottage, please email me pronto. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jul 18, 1998 at 00:54:34 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Brian Subject: The dumbwaiter... Message: ...could have been any one of us. It was this or World Peace, and we all have tough decisions to make. Good line. Brina, to tell you the truth, when the revolution's over, we're going to GIVE you that house. How'd you like that? Hm? Thought you wouldn't mind. Might have to change the staff, though. Hey, maybe not! 'Anne? Anne, are you there? Are you getting that? You know, I've got be in Westwood in an hour.' Sorry, Brian. I'm coming. It's just that the juicer isn't working properly and I wnted to bring everything at the same time. 'Oh Anne, why do you fuss like that? Can't you understand, I'm just a human being.' Yes,[sigh] Maharaji used to say that too. 'No, really, I really AM just a human being. He was full of shit..' Oh please, Brian, please don't talk like that. I know, I know, I've heard something about what's going on down at the Tribunal. But it's going to take me some time. Please. 'Oh sure, not to worry. But, really Anne, you've got understand, there are no masters. Don't you get that yet?' Well, if there are no masters....[slows down, takes a moment, turns with fixed determination] THEN WHY AM I GETTING YOUR FUCKING BREAKFAST? 'Anne, Anne. Easy now! I'm PAYING you, remember? I'm paying you, darling. That's why.' Oh, yeah. Sorry, I guess I still have so many concepts, eh? I'm sorry. 'Hey, don't worry. Now, do I get some breakfast or what?' Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jul 18, 1998 at 10:06:45 (EDT)
From: Brian Email: brian@ex-premie.org To: Jim Subject: The dumbwaiter... Message: Sounds like a good plan, Jim. Except you're wrong on a couple of key points. If someone WANTED to serve me in an unpaid capacity, it would be pretty selfish of me to burden them with money. As for being 'just a human being'... well... okay, Jim, if that's what you choose to believe... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jul 18, 1998 at 11:19:27 (EDT)
From: 9and 3 car garages Email: None To: Brian Subject: The dumbwaiter... Message: This blueprint news will just fry him. A real scoop here. We ought to try for a list of cars next. We know about the pickup truck that hansi wanted then didn't. A mercedes was fixed up and given to one of the girls. It was from her birth year. Anyone know any others? And any in england and amaroo? And india? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jul 18, 1998 at 01:08:59 (EDT)
From: Selena Email: None To: Brian Subject: Malibu blueprints Message: Thank you Brian. Every time I start to wonder or question: where is M coming from???????? something like this gets posted. And for me, it isn't about money in and of itself. I like money actually. But it HURT to read that, knowing how that money was acquired. We could have a lot of fun imaging and play pretending the upper level . Chances are we wouldn't be far off. Wish I felt more playful but that took it out of me mementarily. hey I'll be back as one of me, just wait!! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jul 18, 1998 at 11:44:59 (EDT)
From: Gail Email: None To: Selena Subject: Malibu blueprints Message: Dear Selene: We always knew he was a self-centred, self-serving, mean, meglomaniac. This is just another piece of evidence. Take out an old video and listen to him brag about 'him and his.' Do you remember the time he said he hated people with big egos--[they have enough ego to cover Europe with some left over]. His own ego is the size of a small planet. Meanwhile, if we had done had done even 5% of the hurtful things he has done to himself and others, we would have had to kill ourselves long ago. One of the things that kept me in the cult so long was the idea that he must be the LORD. Who else could handle all this adoration including toe kissing and not explode with ego. Obviously, NO ONE! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jul 18, 1998 at 19:21:40 (EDT)
From: first day..*<* Email: None To: Gail Subject: Malibu blueprints Message: Here is a story about the first day of that house. marolyn was walking around the 'old' house back in 74 and she said 'oh maharaj ji, this is too much' and prem rawat said 'this is my world and I give it to you'. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sun, Jul 19, 1998 at 02:40:07 (EDT)
From: Selene Email: None To: Gail Subject: Malibu blueprints Message: Not much to add to this incredible thread but I wanted to * thank you * for that post. He was most definitely selfish. His devotees are true mirrors. Thanks Gail!! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jul 18, 1998 at 02:27:47 (EDT)
From: TD Email: None To: Brian Subject: Malibu blueprints Message: Wow, what a pad! Honestly, someone somewhere at sometime must have asked him what part that mansion plays in the spreading of his message. Even Bill Gates made his mansion totally functional for spreading the message of Microsoft. But maybe I'm being too hasty in my judgement - better wait to hear about the other floor! Actually my ex-partner worked as a labourer on the Malibu pad for a while, and he even concluded that Maharaji was engaged in a 'Better than the Jones' type rivalry with the neighbours. In February, I saw the blueprints for his new house on Amaroo. The old cabin obviously wasn't quite up to scratch. Anyway, it's a funky little number, in the shape of a pentagon, kind of cabin-like with a lot of glass, so that he will still be able to commune with nature....but keep his distance from those troublesome cow poos! I'm still amazed. We're all in the wrong business. Regards, TD Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jul 18, 1998 at 09:44:59 (EDT)
From: thanks for the prints Email: None To: TD Subject: Malibu blueprints Message: In malibu, There is an exercise room somewhere. the main area is in the shape of a heart. Glass walls in the master bedroom drop into the floor. The house is built with the latest earthquake stuff includeing springs that the whole thing is on. Also some kind of under foundation gravel that allows the house to shift seperately from the ground. Very expensive house. Remember that the whole effort after millenium was the divine united org. that was dedicated to feeding, clothing and sheltering the world. And brazenly proclaiming that it will be done by unpaid but fed and housed premies. But truth is, any money raised was used by the rawats and none went to feeding or clothing or sheltering anyone else. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jul 18, 1998 at 10:01:24 (EDT)
From: Brian Email: brian@ex-premie.org To: thanks for the prints Subject: Malibu blueprints Message: Glass walls in the master bedroom drop into the floor. The plan labels the windows on the exterior wall of the master bedroom as being 'exterior doors', but doesn't indicate the direction they swing. I wondered about that. You just explained it. Now we know how to open a door without having to go through all that exhaustive swinging it open and swinging it close. Better to pay for the mechanism that lowers it into the floor and raises it - all with the push of a button. Maintenance is free, what with the slave labor. Sure it's costly, but premies are rich. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jul 18, 1998 at 11:06:34 (EDT)
From: public houseing Email: None To: Brian Subject: Malibu blueprints Message: Also, maybe you can see cabinets on those prints? He has a very extensive and very expensive collection of crystal. Lots of swans I'm sure. Also, the house has many expensive origional paintings. He gave the example many times about the salesman that came to his house to present a painting and showed him the way it was written about in this and that publication. He spoke about that all that counted was wether or not HE liked it and not what the book says. Sure, that's all that matters, what HE wants. Always I have heard it was intense at his house. The so called residence. This house was built by the premies and thier volunteer efforts were rewarded by the comment by the master saying that 'volunteers suck'. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jul 18, 1998 at 11:28:14 (EDT)
From: Gail Email: freedom@gtn.net To: public houseing Subject: Don't forget the WC ashtray Message: Did you know that some generous (British, I think) premie bought MJ Winston Churchill's office ashtray. Of course, he doesn't use it. He has it stashed in his safe he says. One of his explanations for his hoarding came about 15 years ago. Does anyone remember him saying something to the effect of: [if he gave away everything it would only feed people for one day. It would be better to show them how to cultivate for themselves.] I hope there is such a thing as karma just for HIM. May he be reincarnated as a dildo (he's such a pr--k). Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jul 18, 1998 at 13:17:01 (EDT)
From: Brian Email: brian@ex-premie.org To: Gail Subject: The ashtray room Message: Speaking of safes big enough that you can put an ashtray into it without having to move around the other stuff, I guess we're talking walk-in vault here. There is a storage area across the hallway from the master bedroom that appears to be an extension of the poured concrete retaining wall lining the inside of the L-shaped lower level. Because it's located so centrally (I can't imagine Maharaji wanting to be that close to a large 2-room linen closet), I would suspect that is what it is. While the concrete walls probably double as weight bearers, there is also a second wall framed around the entire thing that encloses it from the interior hallway in such a way that you can't see the concrete wall behind. There is one door leading from the hallway into a bathroom-sized room that leads to a second doorway into another bathroom-sized room. The plan labels both rooms as being 'storage', but there is no reason to partition it in half that way by concrete walls. The inner doorway has walls that thicken at the jambs, and is suitable for supporting a heavy door. Anyone involved in the construction who can verify this all-important centrally-located large concrete linen closet/storage? Email me if you know, Maharaji. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jul 18, 1998 at 13:28:08 (EDT)
From: Selena Email: None To: Brian Subject: The ashtray room Message: Hee Hee Anyone know any cat burgelers? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jul 18, 1998 at 15:12:37 (EDT)
From: G's mom Email: None To: Brian Subject: The ashtray room Message: If Rawat falls into line with other cult leaders, as he often does,than it could be some sort of arsenal. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jul 18, 1998 at 15:36:21 (EDT)
From: Brian Email: brian@ex-premie.org To: G's mom Subject: The ashtray room Message: If Rawat falls into line with other cult leaders, as he often does, then it could be some sort of arsenal. I doubt it. People who own guns enjoy firing them. Maharaji runs his mouth off about everything he enjoys (and owns) and I haven't heard of him talking about that. Personally, I think he just loves linen. Got a big safe room where he keeps it all. Yeah, that's it... Interesting thread, though. Certainly giving those EV Forum monitors a lot to sit up and notice. [Hi, guys and gals! Here's how he's spending your money!] Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jul 18, 1998 at 15:42:54 (EDT)
From: G's mom Email: None To: Brian Subject: You are right... Message: From what I have seen and heard no way he wouldn't be bragging about his Holland and Holland...... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jul 18, 1998 at 19:15:16 (EDT)
From: pokeing through the house Email: None To: Brian Subject: The ashtray room Message: The mala and crown room no doubt. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jul 18, 1998 at 11:35:34 (EDT)
From: Brian Email: brian@ex-premie.org To: public houseing Subject: Malibu blueprints Message: Do you know anything about the exterior pocket doors on the lower level? These aren't normally found anywhere outside of a science fiction movie. They slide into pockets in the jambs and are pairs of left/right doors opening onto the pool area from the 'Pool Corridor'. Exterior doors are heavier/thicker (for security reasons) than interior doors usually are and I can't imagine anyone using any physical energy to open/close them. Are they glass? Are they motor-driven? Anyone know? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jul 18, 1998 at 11:42:03 (EDT)
From: g's mom Email: None To: all Subject: Bill Gates, Shaq O'Neal et al Message: Reading about this house I was thinking this. When one is the Lord and has such a thirst for the finest it must burn something fierce when he reads that Bill Gates has his own whitewater river...or Shaquille has this...or Michael Jackson has Neverland. I mean really WHAT did do they have to compete with being GOD himself???? It must be just SO demeaning. You know his premies have really let him down. It's really pathetic you guys. Get out there and work harder. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jul 18, 1998 at 13:36:33 (EDT)
From: Selene Email: None To: g's mom Subject: Bill Gates, Shaq O'Neal et al Message: I have had conversations with premies about this type of thing. They justify M's money by saying 'look at Madonna, look at so and so...' Of course I know this isn't what you are doing. But my answer to them is always 'She isn't pretending to be God. She isn't selling something that is supposed to be some spiritual revelation that will change our lives. She's singing and dancing and you can buy her CD or not' What you see is what you get with people like MJ - Michael J. that is not the other MJ. He playes basketball really well and people don't mind paying all that money for a ticket. Anyway, it amazes me that prmies use that argument at all. Of course they will also say M isn't forcing this on anyone and you only participate 'if you want to' Can't win. I don't try anymore. I just come here and read when I think of those arguments and then I see I am not crazy after all. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jul 18, 1998 at 17:33:40 (EDT)
From: VP Email: None To: Selene Subject: Bill Gates, Shaq O'Neal et al Message: Thanks for that post, Selene. I am somewhat comfortable (not rich like M) and sometimes when I hear people talking about his money, I start to feel a little uncomfortable. Then I remember how HE MAKES his money and who he claims to be and how DISHONEST it all is. Which is very different from how I made my money. Then I don't feel so guilty about having a bit of green in the back pockets these days. Glad M didn't get a hold of me-snicker snicker!! I probably would have had to let him stay in my house-GAG! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sun, Jul 19, 1998 at 13:17:58 (EDT)
From: Gail Email: None To: VP Subject: VP is rich! Message: Congratulations! Why feel at all guilty? Before I croak, I want at least 20 million tax free in the bank. As long as I don't break people's arms or fleece them with a Guru trip, what the hell. GOT ANY IDEAS? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sun, Jul 19, 1998 at 15:30:39 (EDT)
From: Selena Email: None To: Gail and VP Subject: get rich quick idea Message: Well I DO know of a location of this vault in Malibu :) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sun, Jul 19, 1998 at 23:26:12 (EDT)
From: VP Email: None To: Gail Subject: I wish Message: Gail, Buy low. Sell high.:) VP Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Jul 20, 1998 at 11:10:08 (EDT)
From: Gail Email: None To: VP Subject: I wish Message: Thanks! I've always been afraid to buy stocks but not to play baccarate? Go figure. I'll try it. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jul 18, 1998 at 12:44:02 (EDT)
From: Selene Email: None To: public houseing Subject: Malibu blueprints Message: Always I have heard it was intense at his house. Yes I imagine it must be. It is the ultimate confrontation to go there. And I don't mean it the way M would. The few times I have gone have been awful. Once to a party that was not a party, just a bunch of premies standing around trying to get a glimpse of M. Another time to drop someone off who was 'doing service' building that house. I hated it both times, even though I still was a premie. It is awfully hard to look at that house and not see through M. You have to be truly indoctrinated. And so that inner conflict is at it's peak at that time. Very intense indeed. I remember the guy I had dropped off was so poor and disconnected. Other premies were kind of taking care of him at the time. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jul 18, 1998 at 19:03:02 (EDT)
From: true..*<* Email: None To: Selene Subject: Malibu blueprints Message: One person who has seen it says it's obstentatious, whatever that means. You are right about disconnected. People have been more free with me about how i was. I ignored thier vibes and comments before. For some reason meditation doesn't have anything to do with it. It is the programming that makes you wierd. You do have to make the break to get some sanity. I guess your friend was a volunteer. One of those that rawat commented on when he said 'volunteers suck'. I'm sure your friend would love to hear that. Although it would probobly help him. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sun, Jul 19, 1998 at 00:29:14 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Selene Subject: My visit to the res' Message: I told this before but, hell, I've only got a few stories. Once in the pate eighties, when I was a little wilder (ahem, ahem), I'd been partying all night at some clubs downtown. Scream. Does anyone know the place? The one next to McArthur Park, not the one on Larchmont. There and elsewhere. A fun night. Ended up... Nah, forget that. Anyway, I ended up going for a drive up the coast the next morning, it was jut one of those beautiful L.A. mornings. As we got up into Malibu I started telling my friend about this bizarre thing. 'See up there? See that house up there? The white one with all the trees around it? You won't believe who lives there...' Sometimes the road's blocked off but that morning, by his Grace, the gate was open. We drove up to the house which was covered with a bunch of balloons from the party the night before. I think it was Marolyn's birthday or an anniversary or something. So we get out. It's like 7:00 a.m. on a beatiful Sunday. We're still really 'energized'. We sit on the cliff looking out at the ocean, and I tell him all about the guy I once thought was God but who, at the time, was just a big enigma for me. His maid drives up with fresh o.j. and the Sunday paper. She wants to know who these freaks are. I go say hi and tell her I used to be a premie, in fact that I used to live in the ashram for years. I ask her how she likes her life. She says 'fine'. I ask her if she has any ambitions. She says no, she's jsut happy to serve. Can't really remember the discussion. She goes in, DOESN'T call security, and we hang out for a bit talking about Tone Loc of all people (my friend knew him before he got big and he was just getting big then). Then we drove down to the beach, slept in the sun and talked with a couple of girls. How in the world could he have ever understood, huh? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jul 18, 1998 at 18:24:51 (EDT)
From: Peter Email: None To: Brian Subject: Malibu Blue Prince Message: Well, okay, he's not a Prince, he's the Lord, but he's gonna be Blue when he reads this thread. Thanks for some interesting information--especially the double-walled concrete linen closet. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sun, Jul 19, 1998 at 11:28:44 (EDT)
From: The things CD did Email: None To: Peter Subject: while working at the residence Message: well CD? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sun, Jul 19, 1998 at 13:11:40 (EDT)
From: Gail Email: None To: Blueprint Contributor Subject: Thanks Blueprint Contributor Message: That took a lot of moxy to deliver. Your information is worth at least a hundred nails in the MJ trip coffin. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |