Ex-Premie.Org |
Forum III Archive # 18 | |
From: Jul 14, 1998 |
To: Jul 24, 1998 |
Page: 5 Of: 5 |
canoga -:- critism of the forum -:- Wed, Jul 15, 1998 at 05:13:00 (EDT) __park -:- critism of the forum -:- Wed, Jul 15, 1998 at 06:26:15 (EDT) __Sir David -:- critism of the forum -:- Wed, Jul 15, 1998 at 06:37:15 (EDT) __Brian -:- critism of the forum -:- Wed, Jul 15, 1998 at 08:47:16 (EDT) ____Judex -:- critism of the forum -:- Wed, Jul 15, 1998 at 17:39:52 (EDT) __Richard -:- WE ??? -:- Wed, Jul 15, 1998 at 10:04:20 (EDT) ____Mel Bourne -:- WE ??? -:- Wed, Jul 15, 1998 at 10:24:02 (EDT) ______Richard -:- YOU ??? -:- Wed, Jul 15, 1998 at 11:18:37 (EDT) ______Jim -:- Then tell us your name -:- Wed, Jul 15, 1998 at 11:33:09 (EDT) ______G's mom -:- response -:- Wed, Jul 15, 1998 at 11:47:07 (EDT) __Katie -:- Different agendas -:- Wed, Jul 15, 1998 at 10:50:43 (EDT) __Jim -:- critism of the forum -:- Wed, Jul 15, 1998 at 11:02:18 (EDT) ____Victoria -:- criticism of the forum -:- Wed, Jul 15, 1998 at 14:01:31 (EDT) __Mickey the Pharisee -:- critism of the forum -:- Wed, Jul 15, 1998 at 15:10:43 (EDT) ____PaulR -:- critism of the forum -:- Wed, Jul 15, 1998 at 17:46:36 (EDT) ______Gerry -:- criticism of the forum -:- Wed, Jul 15, 1998 at 18:54:49 (EDT) ________PaulR -:- criticism of the forum -:- Wed, Jul 15, 1998 at 20:18:01 (EDT) __________Jim -:- criticism of the forum -:- Wed, Jul 15, 1998 at 20:27:08 (EDT) __________Gerry -:- Just a Mel Bourne minute... -:- Wed, Jul 15, 1998 at 20:42:58 (EDT) ____________Ruamok -:- Just a boring minute... -:- Thurs, Jul 16, 1998 at 00:56:14 (EDT) ______________canoga -:- Just a boring minute... -:- Thurs, Jul 16, 1998 at 03:12:57 (EDT) Katie -:- THE BIG CHEESE post (finally) -:- Tues, Jul 14, 1998 at 23:53:04 (EDT) __Katie -:- PS -:- Wed, Jul 15, 1998 at 00:10:16 (EDT) ____Judex -:- PS - to Katie -:- Wed, Jul 15, 1998 at 00:29:58 (EDT) ____tom -:- the cheese -:- Wed, Jul 15, 1998 at 00:38:49 (EDT) ______Katie -:- the cheese -:- Wed, Jul 15, 1998 at 00:43:58 (EDT) ________tom -:- the cheese -:- Wed, Jul 15, 1998 at 00:54:03 (EDT) __________Katie -:- the cheese -:- Wed, Jul 15, 1998 at 00:58:37 (EDT) ____________tom -:- the cheese (goodnight) -:- Wed, Jul 15, 1998 at 01:06:16 (EDT) __TD -:- My Cheesy Heroes -:- Wed, Jul 15, 1998 at 04:03:43 (EDT) ____Cheeseman -:- Still no cheesehead Katie -:- Wed, Jul 15, 1998 at 07:01:24 (EDT) ______Katie -:- Still no cheesehead Katie -:- Wed, Jul 15, 1998 at 09:49:00 (EDT) ____Sir Brie -:- My Cheesy Heroes -:- Wed, Jul 15, 1998 at 10:04:14 (EDT) __Selene -:- THE BIG CHEESE post (finally) -:- Thurs, Jul 16, 1998 at 12:15:47 (EDT) Brian -:- Sharron's comments -:- Tues, Jul 14, 1998 at 22:05:20 (EDT) __Jim -:- Sherron's a fool -:- Tues, Jul 14, 1998 at 22:35:04 (EDT) ____Mickey the Pharisee -:- Sherron's a fool -:- Tues, Jul 14, 1998 at 23:40:03 (EDT) ______Victoria -:- Sherron's a fool -:- Wed, Jul 15, 1998 at 00:02:13 (EDT) ____Gail -:- Sherron's a fool -:- Wed, Jul 15, 1998 at 01:24:20 (EDT) ______Bareny -:- Sherron's a fool -:- Wed, Jul 15, 1998 at 02:44:01 (EDT) ________Brian -:- Sherron's a fool -:- Wed, Jul 15, 1998 at 10:21:18 (EDT) ______Sir David -:- Indian food -:- Wed, Jul 15, 1998 at 06:49:26 (EDT) ________Barney -:- Indian food -:- Wed, Jul 15, 1998 at 12:18:31 (EDT) ________Selena -:- Indian food -:- Wed, Jul 15, 1998 at 13:23:27 (EDT) ________Bobby -:- Indian food -:- Wed, Jul 15, 1998 at 13:59:13 (EDT) ______CD -:- vegie food -:- Wed, Jul 15, 1998 at 11:59:41 (EDT) ________Gerry -:- vegie food -:- Wed, Jul 15, 1998 at 12:16:59 (EDT) ________Jim -:- fish food -:- Wed, Jul 15, 1998 at 13:40:57 (EDT) __TD -:- Sharron's comments -:- Wed, Jul 15, 1998 at 04:35:42 (EDT) __selena -:- Sharron's comments -:- Wed, Jul 15, 1998 at 13:20:42 (EDT) ____x -:- Get Help Sharron -:- Wed, Jul 15, 1998 at 14:45:00 (EDT) ______eb -:- Get Help Sharron -:- Wed, Jul 15, 1998 at 23:09:35 (EDT) ________VP -:- Get Help Sharron -:- Thurs, Jul 16, 1998 at 01:00:02 (EDT) ________x -:- Get Help Sharron -:- Thurs, Jul 16, 1998 at 18:43:35 (EDT) __PaulR -:- Sharron's comments -:- Wed, Jul 15, 1998 at 18:05:22 (EDT) __TD -:- Sharron's comments -:- Wed, Jul 15, 1998 at 19:28:04 (EDT) Jean-Michel -:- Let's be PRACTICAL MB/BM! -:- Tues, Jul 14, 1998 at 18:43:56 (EDT) __Jim -:- Yes, the aspirants!! -:- Tues, Jul 14, 1998 at 20:58:24 (EDT) ____Jean-Michel -:- Action / aspirant! -:- Wed, Jul 15, 1998 at 11:14:32 (EDT) __Mel Bourne -:- Let's be PRACTICAL MB/BM! -:- Wed, Jul 15, 1998 at 08:02:12 (EDT) ____Richard -:- Huh! -:- Wed, Jul 15, 1998 at 08:15:06 (EDT) ____Jean-Michel -:- Let's be PRACTICAL MB/BM! -:- Wed, Jul 15, 1998 at 10:16:30 (EDT) Jim -:- Staying calm arguing w premies -:- Tues, Jul 14, 1998 at 15:18:17 (EDT) __Rick -:- Staying calm arguing w premies -:- Tues, Jul 14, 1998 at 16:15:07 (EDT) ____Gerry -:- Staying calm arguing w premies -:- Tues, Jul 14, 1998 at 16:41:06 (EDT) ____JW -:- Staying calm arguing w premies -:- Tues, Jul 14, 1998 at 18:44:17 (EDT) ____JW -:- One More Thing -:- Tues, Jul 14, 1998 at 19:03:52 (EDT) ______Rick -:- One More Thing -:- Tues, Jul 14, 1998 at 20:12:29 (EDT) ________JW -:- No Predispositon - Learning -:- Tues, Jul 14, 1998 at 20:48:33 (EDT) __________Jim -:- Born premies? -:- Tues, Jul 14, 1998 at 21:30:59 (EDT) ____________Rick -:- Born premies? -:- Wed, Jul 15, 1998 at 00:00:37 (EDT) ______________g's mom -:- Born premies? -:- Wed, Jul 15, 1998 at 00:28:34 (EDT) ________________Judex -:- Born premies? -to g's mom -:- Thurs, Jul 16, 1998 at 01:38:47 (EDT) ______________Katie -:- Born premies? -:- Wed, Jul 15, 1998 at 00:34:35 (EDT) ________________G's mom -:- agree wholeheartedly -:- Wed, Jul 15, 1998 at 00:39:56 (EDT) __________________Katie -:- agree wholeheartedly, too -:- Wed, Jul 15, 1998 at 00:46:30 (EDT) ________________Rick -:- Born premies? -:- Wed, Jul 15, 1998 at 11:28:31 (EDT) __________________Jim -:- Yeah? What about ME? -:- Wed, Jul 15, 1998 at 11:35:16 (EDT) ____________________Rick -:- Yeah? What about ME? -:- Wed, Jul 15, 1998 at 11:51:55 (EDT) __________________Katie -:- Born premies? -:- Wed, Jul 15, 1998 at 11:39:42 (EDT) ____________________Rick -:- Born premies? -:- Wed, Jul 15, 1998 at 11:44:06 (EDT) __________Mickey the Pharisee -:- No Predispositon - Learning -:- Tues, Jul 14, 1998 at 23:34:19 (EDT) ____Jim -:- Sweet -:- Tues, Jul 14, 1998 at 20:28:38 (EDT) ______Rick -:- Sweet -:- Wed, Jul 15, 1998 at 09:56:05 (EDT) ____Judex -:- to Rick -:- Thurs, Jul 16, 1998 at 01:04:51 (EDT) ______Judex -:- to Rick also -:- Thurs, Jul 16, 1998 at 01:18:00 (EDT) ________Rick -:- to Rick also -:- Thurs, Jul 16, 1998 at 12:50:30 (EDT) ______Rick -:- to Rick -:- Thurs, Jul 16, 1998 at 12:32:56 (EDT) __bftb -:- Staying calm arguing w premies -:- Tues, Jul 14, 1998 at 16:32:17 (EDT) ____bftb -:- Staying calm arguing w premies -:- Tues, Jul 14, 1998 at 16:57:12 (EDT) ______Gerry -:- discourse/discussion -:- Tues, Jul 14, 1998 at 17:16:24 (EDT) ____Passing thru -:- Innocent answer -:- Wed, Jul 15, 1998 at 08:34:40 (EDT) ______Rick -:- Innocent answer -:- Wed, Jul 15, 1998 at 10:20:57 (EDT) ______Jean-Michel -:- You LIAR! -:- Wed, Jul 15, 1998 at 11:23:41 (EDT) ________Jean-Michel -:- Post above for Passing thru -:- Wed, Jul 15, 1998 at 11:25:34 (EDT) __________Jim -:- Actually, JM, I made them up -:- Wed, Jul 15, 1998 at 11:40:40 (EDT) ____________Jean-Michel -:- Those are good ones! -:- Wed, Jul 15, 1998 at 13:13:05 (EDT) ________Passing thru -:- Show me the quote, JM -:- Thurs, Jul 16, 1998 at 00:44:50 (EDT) __________Jean-Michel -:- Premies should believe M -:- Thurs, Jul 16, 1998 at 13:21:19 (EDT) __John -:- Jim, you're dreaming! -:- Tues, Jul 14, 1998 at 16:39:15 (EDT) ____Jim -:- Know your history, John -:- Tues, Jul 14, 1998 at 23:44:51 (EDT) ______John -:- Know your history, John -:- Wed, Jul 15, 1998 at 13:29:10 (EDT) ________Jim -:- Know your history, John -:- Wed, Jul 15, 1998 at 14:08:04 (EDT) Gail C. MacDougall -:- WHAT DO YOU HAVE TO HIDE, MJ? -:- Tues, Jul 14, 1998 at 14:29:03 (EDT) __x -:- WHAT DO YOU HAVE TO HIDE, MJ? -:- Tues, Jul 14, 1998 at 15:32:07 (EDT) Sir David -:- Is this a cult or what? -:- Tues, Jul 14, 1998 at 12:29:43 (EDT) __red heart -:- when people are hurtful -:- Tues, Jul 14, 1998 at 12:42:44 (EDT) ____Selena -:- when people are hurtful -:- Tues, Jul 14, 1998 at 12:52:58 (EDT) ____Gerry -:- when gurus are liars -:- Tues, Jul 14, 1998 at 12:55:05 (EDT) ____Sir David -:- Wrong again O Red One -:- Tues, Jul 14, 1998 at 14:14:49 (EDT) ______Selena -:- Wrong again O Red One -:- Tues, Jul 14, 1998 at 14:33:28 (EDT) ________Knight of Round Cheese -:- A cheesy grin -:- Tues, Jul 14, 1998 at 14:47:55 (EDT) __________Selenie -:- A cheesy grin -:- Tues, Jul 14, 1998 at 14:52:24 (EDT) ____________Cheeseperson -:- A cheesy grin -:- Tues, Jul 14, 1998 at 21:29:04 (EDT) __________TD -:- Where's the Cheese? -:- Tues, Jul 14, 1998 at 19:45:15 (EDT) ____________A Knight's Cheddar -:- Where's the Cheese? -:- Tues, Jul 14, 1998 at 21:40:46 (EDT) ______________TD -:- Where's the Cheese? -:- Tues, Jul 14, 1998 at 21:54:48 (EDT) ______________Carol -:- Max(?)and Grommet -:- Tues, Jul 14, 1998 at 22:10:10 (EDT) ________________Mickey the Pharisee -:- Max(?)and Grommet -:- Tues, Jul 14, 1998 at 23:20:29 (EDT) ______Judex -:- Cold Comfort Farm -:- Tues, Jul 14, 1998 at 21:15:38 (EDT) __Victoria -:- The more things change... -:- Tues, Jul 14, 1998 at 13:52:13 (EDT) ____Judex -:- to Victoria -:- Tues, Jul 14, 1998 at 21:23:08 (EDT) ______Sir David -:- to Victoria -:- Tues, Jul 14, 1998 at 22:01:16 (EDT) ________Judex -:- to David -:- Tues, Jul 14, 1998 at 22:45:39 (EDT) ____Victoria -:- The more things change...more -:- Tues, Jul 14, 1998 at 22:49:21 (EDT) ______Judex -:- to Victoria -:- Tues, Jul 14, 1998 at 22:59:01 (EDT) ________Victoria -:- Rich Neal -:- Tues, Jul 14, 1998 at 23:25:14 (EDT) __________Judex -:- to Victoria -:- Tues, Jul 14, 1998 at 23:53:38 (EDT) ____________Victoria -:- the doctor is in -:- Wed, Jul 15, 1998 at 01:17:44 (EDT) ______________Judex -:- the doctor is in -:- Wed, Jul 15, 1998 at 07:37:11 (EDT) ________________Judex -:- the doctor is in - 2 -:- Wed, Jul 15, 1998 at 07:51:55 (EDT) __________________Victoria -:- the doctor is in - 2 -:- Wed, Jul 15, 1998 at 12:14:10 (EDT) ____________________Gerry -:- the doctor is in - 2 -:- Wed, Jul 15, 1998 at 12:42:39 (EDT) ______________________Gerry -:- Bobby made me do it -:- Wed, Jul 15, 1998 at 14:14:16 (EDT) ________________________Bobby -:- Bobby made me do it -:- Wed, Jul 15, 1998 at 16:53:40 (EDT) ______________________Victoria -:- the doctor is in - 2 -:- Wed, Jul 15, 1998 at 14:22:24 (EDT) ______________________Judex -:- the doctor is in - 2 -:- Wed, Jul 15, 1998 at 16:22:33 (EDT) |
Date: Wed, Jul 15, 1998 at 05:13:00 (EDT)
From: canoga Email: None To: Everyone Subject: critism of the forum Message: The forum seems to be inclined towards reminisent nostalgia, superficial sentimentality and giving each other strokes. I imagine Maharaji is snickering away while he reads the forum. The will to act has been dispersed and dismantled. Personally,I get kind of bored just rehasing the old times and old hurts. It seems to inbreed. Mel made a comment about the lack of warmth. There is a lack of warmth --the warmth in the forum is discouraged from action. What if some kind of legal action against Maharaji is the natural progression? Some times the forum organizers sound patronizing. Like they KNOW taking action is an unnecessary detour. Dont you think he is smirking at all this rehash of ancient history? Dont you think he has got his machine so slick that its going to take a rebel base to dismantle it? Divide and conquer is his game. As long as ex premmies are talking amongst themselves, going to therapists and working out their agnst and inner feelings amongst themselves on the internet--he's safe. He counts on us not to be able to get organized. Unless there is a public statement in the media - a consistant public press release- hes got it made. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jul 15, 1998 at 06:26:15 (EDT)
From: park Email: None To: canoga Subject: critism of the forum Message: How about at his events Hmmmm? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jul 15, 1998 at 06:37:15 (EDT)
From: Sir David Email: David.Studio57@btinternet.com To: canoga Subject: critism of the forum Message: I don't agree with or even understand all of your comments but I am in favour of litigation if such a thing could be pulled off. That aside, I don't think that Maharaji is too happy with this forum. It's a real thorn in his side and will become more so as more people get onto the Internet. I actually think it is more counterproductive to Maharaji than any legal action would be. Legal action against Maharaji is fraught with pitfalls. For a start, he can afford the best lawyers to help him wriggle out of any attack. Also there is the martyr aspect of someone who is being attacked in court. Legal action could make him look like a martyr. What would be the case against him? How could it be proven? Even if Maharaji was taken to court, the whole thing would be forgotten about one year later, whatever the outcome. Far better in my opinion is ex-premies publicising what he's up to. He can do nothing about that. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jul 15, 1998 at 08:47:16 (EDT)
From: Brian Email: brian@ex-premie.org To: canoga Subject: critism of the forum Message: You make it sound like this Forum is an actual location in cyberspace where people are sitting around chatting while the building is burning. I happen to be sitting alone writing this. You're probably sitting alone reading it. I don't know you. You're posting here anonymously. The Forum isn't a warm fuzzy place. It's just a listing of posts. That people who post here don't react warmly and positively to your ideas doesn't mean they aren't warm people. But you're not dealing here with any warmth towards those who post. You just want them all to do what you feel needs to be done - and apparently needs to be done by others. Canoga, do something. Share who you are with the people here or stop complaining about being bored. Nobody is here to entertain you, but you'll find plenty of emotional support if you open up about YOU. I've made plenty of warm friendships here, but it wasn't from demanding things from these people. Or else march off and sue Maharaji. But stop expecting people to exist to fulfill your wants and needs when you're offering them nothing more than whining that the choices made by people you choose to hide from don't take your feelings into account. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jul 15, 1998 at 17:39:52 (EDT)
From: Judex Email: None To: Brian Subject: critism of the forum Message: Yes Brian My Agenda Their Agenda not necessarily one and same I am up to lesson no. 2 at work. Lesson no. 1 was 'first impressions'. we talked about how to change our image and our approach, as well as that of our school. lesson no. 2 was 'prioritising'. Their priority may not be mine and vice versa. I am learning first things last, the story of my life (I think i was born inside out or back to front or upside down or something) Lots of love to everyone, I am going to have a shower, ring in work and say I won't be in today and then go and have a walk in the lovely real world. The sun has risen!!! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jul 15, 1998 at 10:04:20 (EDT)
From: Richard Email: None To: canoga Subject: WE ??? Message: The Lone Ranger : 'Looks like we are being attacked by Indians' Tonto : 'Whad'ya mean WE whiteman' The legal process is fraught with problems, not least of which is the general failure to deliver a satisfactory outcome. Trouble is, most people idealise the LAW in a number of attractive but inaccurate concepts. GETTING LEGAL REDRESS HAVING YOUR DAY IN COURT JUDGEMENT BY A JURY OF YOUR PEERS etc. etc. However, the actuality is somewhat different. Once you have engaged counsel (unless you are stupid enough to try and represent yourself) you effectively hand over the whole project to a bunch of strangers. First decide on your objectives. Whittle down what you would like to do to the doable. Maybe 5% of the original. Look at your evidence No you idiot, the provable stuff. Not the heresay or the assumptions. And begin to discover the meaning of the word admissible. Call your witnesses Where'd they go? Go to Court (If you get that far) Seethe with anger while you discover that what means everything to you means shit to your counsel. Be reprimanded by the bench for failing to answer complex questions with YES or NO while the defence counsel smirks knowingly at all concerned. Get the Decision Be told that 'while the court has every sympathy for your hurt you have failed to prove to the courts satisfaction'. Then realise that, not only was this your last shot but, you have also created a precedent by which any succeeding case will be measured. Nothing personal canoga but 'been there, done that and still wearing the fucking tee-shirt'. Yeah, I know that the above is a cruel pastiche of our justice system and somewhat inaccurate to boot, but you get the drift? Far easier to defend against what we already do effectively than to prosecute. Don't be sucked in by MB, he/she has absolutely no intentions whatsoever to become embroiled in a legal action. Do you MB? regards Richard Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jul 15, 1998 at 10:24:02 (EDT)
From: Mel Bourne Email: None To: Richard Subject: WE ??? Message: ' Don't be sucked in by MB, he/she has absolutely no intentions whatsoever to become embroiled in a legal action. Do you MB?' I'm open, but I would prefer to be on the abuse side of things, rather than 'class action'. I like to deal more with tangibles. Small and quick results. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jul 15, 1998 at 11:18:37 (EDT)
From: Richard Email: None To: Mel Bourne Subject: YOU ??? Message: I'm open, but I would prefer to be on the abuse side of things, rather than 'class action'. I like to deal more with tangibles. Small and quick results. (my boldface) So you're really committed to canoga's legal campaign then, quite prepared to do your bit, give evidence, contribute to the legal fees and everything. MB your committment is an example to us all. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jul 15, 1998 at 11:33:09 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Mel Bourne Subject: Then tell us your name Message: I'm open, but I would prefer to be on the abuse side of things, rather than 'class action'. I like to deal more with tangibles. Small and quick results. Mel, The first impediment for anyone considering taking action will be anonymity. So let's have a 'tangible'. Who are you? Come on, hot shot, put up or shut up. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jul 15, 1998 at 11:47:07 (EDT)
From: G's mom Email: None To: Mel Bourne Subject: response Message: 'I'm open, but I would prefer to be on the abuse side of things, rather than 'class action'. I like to deal more with tangibles. Small and quick results' Dear Mel, I take it you yourself were abused? If not I find this quote in order ' No price is too high for the man who does not have to pay it' Also Mel, sometimes it appears to me you are trying to incite this lawsuit for the entertainment value it would provide you. To those who might have to be interrogated, judged and threatened it wuld be far from entertaining. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jul 15, 1998 at 10:50:43 (EDT)
From: Katie Email: None To: canoga Subject: Different agendas Message: Canoga - The agenda of most of the people on the forum appears to be quite different from yours. You seem want to mobilize people to a specific action - a lawsuit. Most of the other people on the forum appear not to be interested in it. I know I'm not, for reasons I've detailed below (but will go into again if anyone didn't hear me). The forum and websites are the 'actions' that I've chosen to take and that's why I put so much work into them. Personally, I don't care WHAT M thinks of the forum - I don't care if he's laughing his head off and thinks we are all idiots. The forum and website are for ex-premies and premies, not for him. I won't discourage you from trying to get people together to sue M, but I don't agree with your criticisms of the forum. I feel that you are trying to control the topics under discussion, which I dislike. I think people should be able to talk about whatever they want on the fourm (within the guidelines and rules). Furthermore the forum is unmoderated, so when you criticize 'the forum' you are criticizing the participants, since the forum is what they make it. I appreciate that the forum frustrates you. but I don't think criticism is the way to make it different. In fact, I don't think you CAN make the forum different. You may want to set up something else - a listserve (group e-mail available free in several places), or even another forum (I think they are still available free or for a nominal charge) so you can discuss this class action suit with others that are interested. Of course, I have no problem with you discussing legal action on the forum, but I DO have a problem with you complaining that no one wants to talk about a lawsuit, and I have an even bigger problem with your criticism of people who aren't interested in pursuing a lawsuit. That's just how I feel. Katie Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jul 15, 1998 at 11:02:18 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: canoga Subject: critism of the forum Message: Fuck you Canoga, If you want to 'get real' you can start by telling us who you are. Then, spend your own good time or money to research the issues you find so compelling. When you're done, organize something. In the meantime, don't be such an asshole. Your world court suggestion is a joke. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jul 15, 1998 at 14:01:31 (EDT)
From: Victoria Email: None To: Everyone Subject: criticism of the forum Message: Hey! I like the forum just the way it is. I am really glad to have found the forum. I wish the forum had been around 20 years ago, in which case, I wouldn't really give a damn about the forum since I never would have received k in the first place. I'm not interested in going to court. I just like having a place to relate about a truly bizarre experience with others who can relate. It's not every day you meet an ex-premie (or an ex-moonie, ex-scientologist, ex-rajneesher, ex-krishna-consciousness, ex-whatever) with whom to discuss your ex-cult ex-periences. Or maybe you do meet exes every day, but it's not the sort of thing they like to discuss openly. (Did you really kiss his feet?, ha-ha-ha.) This forum is a valuable resource for seekers, aka aspirants. Think of it as service and satsang. Keep on keeping on. Victoria Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jul 15, 1998 at 15:10:43 (EDT)
From: Mickey the Pharisee Email: None To: canoga Subject: critism of the forum Message: Perhaps I'm being a little paranoid, but I am somewhat suspicious of your intentions, canoga. You blow in here, don't give us your name, and spend so much time trying to work up a lawsuit. This seems a bit strange to me. If you will identify yourself and tell us your story, you may get a more sympathetic hearing, but right now I am going to remain cautious about your intentions and agenda. Michael Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jul 15, 1998 at 17:46:36 (EDT)
From: PaulR Email: None To: ALL + Melbourne Subject: critism of the forum Message: Dear All, Stop attacking Melbourne. Can't you see he's coming to terms with the idea that he got conned. Took me 7 years to deal with it. READ BRIAN'S POST IN THIS THREAD. It says what this forum is for. It is not about getting even, It is about getting back what we foolishly gave away. Can't someone encourage Jim to take a job as a bullfighter, I'm sure he'd be good at it. - - - - - - - - - - - - Dear Melbourne, hang around and listen, post if you want to, but listen anyhow. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jul 15, 1998 at 18:54:49 (EDT)
From: Gerry Email: None To: PaulR Subject: criticism of the forum Message: Paul, I hope you don't think I'm chasing you around like a ''dog'' but if Mel is sincerely trying to come to terms with the fact that he has been conned, why doesn't he just come out and say so? He would garner a whole lot of assistance and acceptance in that case. Instead he's been creating diversion and mischief and certainly sounds like a cult apologist to me. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jul 15, 1998 at 20:18:01 (EDT)
From: PaulR Email: None To: Gerry Subject: criticism of the forum Message: You lack empathy. It took me several years. It took you several years, and it'l take him several years. He doesn't sound like a cult apologist to me. He sounds CONFUSED. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jul 15, 1998 at 20:27:08 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: PaulR Subject: criticism of the forum Message: You lack empathy. It took me several years. It took you several years, and it'l take him several years. He doesn't sound like a cult apologist to me. He sounds CONFUSED. You lack clarity. There's nothing that says he can't be BOTH a cult apologist and confused. In fact, aren't most, if not all, cult apologists confused? Of course they are. That's why they're cult apologists. Mel is definitely a cult apologist. Look at how he's willing to go to unreasonable lengths to find some possible justification for Maharaji's actions -- or lack of them -- in the Fakiranand matter. An 'apology'in this sense is just an argument in favour of something. Mel is definitely trying to put forth arguments in favour of Maharaji. What he thinks behind all that is anybody's guess. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jul 15, 1998 at 20:42:58 (EDT)
From: Gerry Email: None To: PaulR Subject: Just a Mel Bourne minute... Message: I like that subject title... Paul, You said: You lack empathy. It took me several years. It took you several years, and it'l take him several years. He doesn't sound like a cult apologist to me. He sounds CONFUSED. How can I be empathetic, which is the intellectual identification of oneself with another, when all he does (with one exception, forwhich I expressed my appreciation) is present psuedo-legalistic mumbo jumbo? I'm supposed to identify with that? As far as ''it'' taking several years, you be the judge: In January 1973, I received the big K. I went to Millenium in November of 1973. After that I went home to my family had a nice Chrismas, got a decent job in January and never saw or talked to a premie again and certainly never meditated again. Not once. I just got on with my life and basically, except for some occasional razzing from my friends, rarely thought of it again. Mel's in the cult. He likes the BM and ''practices Knowledge'' what ever the fuck that means. Yes he is very confused. So what's your point? I should roll over and play dead for this guy? Agree with him? What? Really, Paul you make some silly pronouncements on this forum with very little with which to back them up. Maybe YOU should work on developing YOUR bullshit detector and stop being so damn thinned skinned. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 16, 1998 at 00:56:14 (EDT)
From: Ruamok Email: lotuspower@aol.com To: Gerry Subject: Just a boring minute... Message: Yeah, it's a great title. Very clever. (I wrote it in a thread with canoga about class action where Mel baby had to come in and patronize.) It also shows that we are expending a huge amount of energy adressing a premie's concerns INSTEAD OF OUR OWN! Some guy who doesn't have his own forum to play in comes in and says let's play 'war' and 'fish' and otherwise we would be playing chess or doom. I'm not into analogies much since leaving BM but it also increases our propensity to argue over semantics instead of experience agreement. A couple of things: -I am grateful for this forum and website. I am grateful to the people who have webmastered this site and likewise other internet activities that have preceded it. -I am not really here to talk to premies. It's ok but I don't see why I have to read a HUGE number oof entries about some premie's doubts about doubting. I mean this is about what we have gone thru and that we are somewhere else. This is about people WERE sliced and diced and stepped on by this Divine Light Machine that apparently cannot be legally traced back to its leader. This is about may of us took extremely precarious paths career-wise, survival-wise because some asshole had us convinced that he was going to land the flying saucers and all the world leaders would have sex with each other without orgasms (OR WHATEVER THE PARTY LINE WAS THAT WEEK) so that we would give him more money which WE needed for better nutrition or a deposit on an efficiency apartment or a bicycle so that HE could buy fancy electronic gizmos and break them in front of the Divine Light bigwgs and say it was a lila. I mean I could have actually put those years of service into preventing starvation in Africa or something worthwhile but instead I wasted it on some fake. I am sorry that I did that. More things- I would like BM held accountable in court. I would like it as a class action. I do not know if it is feasible. I think it would make BM's life problematic because BM is a cult. -I am truthfully concerned about violence from the cult. I say this as an individual expressing an opinion, not as a witness to a crime. I think that that's where it WAS at- somebody could do something violent and get protected, altho there was not necessarily an order. It's a dictatorial, mob mentality. -This forum and it's forerunners are making it safe for people to express the most negative aspects of their experiences with this cult. While class action sounds great to me, people publishing this stuff on the internet and/or in books is/would be nice too! I could say more but that's enuf for now. I wish we had chat- alot of what goes on here is to short to click thru it. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 16, 1998 at 03:12:57 (EDT)
From: canoga Email: None To: Ruamok Subject: Just a boring minute... Message: Ok. I leave you to it. I have not said my name or whereabouts because to do so would cut me off from the 'close in crowd'. At this time it is more important to me to watch the inside goings on then justify myself for the forum. Have fun Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Jul 14, 1998 at 23:53:04 (EDT)
From: Katie Email: None To: Everyone Subject: THE BIG CHEESE post (finally) Message: Finally found this history-making post in the archives, along with a lot of other interesting items... But here is THE BIG CHEESE POST: Date: Wed, Feb 4, 1998 at 20:44:25 (EST) Poster: Sir David To: Selena & everyone Subject: The big cheese (Re: Long Beach '97) Message: It's the summer of '78 and Maharaji is due to turn up at a program in a reconverted old cinema we spent weeks reburbishing in London. I am planting flowers to adorn the path that the Lord will walk as he approaches the back entrance. Suddenly a security premie in a dark suit taps my shoulder and tells me that he's got some very, very important service for me to do. I follow him excitedly into the back stage area where Maharaji will wait before coming on stage. He points to a fridge. Guard that fridge and don't let ANYONE go near it or open it. I humbly nod acknowledgement and sit alone in this back stage room, staring at the fridge and willing to give my life to guard its contents. The hours pass and people say that it's Maharaji's lila that he hasn't turned up for the program. I sit hopefully, expecting Maharaji and Marilyn to come bursting through the door to my backstage room, at any moment. I had rehearsed a half pranam during my long solitude backstage and was like a 100 metre runner at the blocks in preperation for the coming of the Lord. I figured a half pranam would be more to his liking since he was probably tired of premies throwing themselves on the floor all over the place. After much more solitary waiting and preperation I was told late in the evening that Maharaji was not coming to give us satsang after all but this was his lila. I stood up and turned to leave the backstage area. Since I was alone again I turned back to the fridge and opened the door to see what I had been guarding all afternoon and evening. It was completely empty except for a neatly wrapped piece of Cheddar cheese. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jul 15, 1998 at 00:10:16 (EDT)
From: Katie Email: None To: all Subject: PS Message: I also found Scott's first post, eb's first post, and Mickey the Pharisee (when he was still Michael) telling how he replaced the incense sticks in front of Maharaji's picture with sparklers just before satsang time. (Wish I'd have been there...) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jul 15, 1998 at 00:29:58 (EDT)
From: Judex Email: None To: Katie Subject: PS - to Katie Message: Katie can you re-post them too, if they agree to re-release them? Please Katie, just for fun! PS - if you found my first one it was about why Maharaji never explained how seeing the timeless could help one after death, I think! It was very serious! Boo...don't repost that one! Call the posts 'first steps'????? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jul 15, 1998 at 00:38:49 (EDT)
From: tom Email: None To: Katie Subject: the cheese Message: I was thinking 'and...he was pissed or was his mind blown and did the word lila squeek in his mind?' but I guess it was me that sat in front of that damn refridgerator and, he did'nt come and there sat a tasty chunk of cheese. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jul 15, 1998 at 00:43:58 (EDT)
From: Katie Email: None To: tom Subject: the cheese Message: I like your interpretation, but I am not sure I am seeing it the same way that you do. If I would complete the metaphor, I'd say you opened the refrigerator and ate it yourself! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jul 15, 1998 at 00:54:03 (EDT)
From: tom Email: None To: Katie Subject: the cheese Message: Naw just tasty cheese, cheese for M, or someone else since he didn't come. My point, if I had one, was putting myself in it the situation, and then not haveing to much else to say. The cheese situation, I think now as I did then because it happened all the the time was B.S. A lot of people did, but I guess some couldn't shrug it off. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jul 15, 1998 at 00:58:37 (EDT)
From: Katie Email: None To: tom Subject: the cheese Message: Actually, the reason I reprinted the post is because so many people thought it was funny and wanted to read it again, not because it was any big deal. David did a very good job writing about the type of incident, that, as you said, did happen ALL the time. Around M anyway. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jul 15, 1998 at 01:06:16 (EDT)
From: tom Email: None To: Katie Subject: the cheese (goodnight) Message: Enjoyed reading the forum tonight, I'll book mark and ..I be back Gotta hit the sack Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jul 15, 1998 at 04:03:43 (EDT)
From: TD Email: None To: Katie Subject: My Cheesy Heroes Message: Dear Katie, Thank you SO much for saving me the journey into Download Land. You're right! This piece (no pun intended) deserves its place in the Ex-premie.org site Hall of Fame. Or should I say the Fridge of Fame? It truly is a wondrous thing to no longer feel like I'm a wallflower at Sir David's Cheese Prom. I finally UNDERSTAND!!! Many may come, but few are chosen, Sir David. I bet there was a big full cream dairy moon over your house the day you were born, and the dairy farmers nearby probably said 'One day that boy is going to have a cheese experience us cheese-makers could only ever dream of'. Thanks so much, TD Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jul 15, 1998 at 07:01:24 (EDT)
From: Cheeseman Email: David.Studio57@btinternet.com To: Katie Subject: Still no cheesehead Katie Message: I wonder where it got to? If you email me the address you sent it to, I'll check it's correct. Perhaps it went by surface mail after all. Thanks for digging out the old cheese post. I will have to get our Maj to give you a suitable Honour. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jul 15, 1998 at 09:49:00 (EDT)
From: Katie Email: None To: Cheeseman Subject: Still no cheesehead Katie Message: I am not happy about this, David. I bet they DID send it by surface mail since it was a large package. I will e-mail you to compare the address, and any other info I have (customs form, etc.) If it's lost, I won't despair, but I REALLY wanted you to have it! DARN... I hope some Green Bay Packer fan in British customs (or US customs!) didn't confiscate it! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jul 15, 1998 at 10:04:14 (EDT)
From: Sir Brie Email: David.Studio57@btinternet.com To: TD Subject: My Cheesy Heroes Message: Thanks. As I sit here eating my French bread and Brie, I am overcome with emotions of the cheese kind. That's one small slice for man. One giant bite for Mankind. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 16, 1998 at 12:15:47 (EDT)
From: Selene Email: None To: Katie Subject: THE BIG CHEESE post (finally) Message: Katie thanks for finding and posting that. I saved it and showed it to my husband. He couldn't believe it. He asked me 'what's a pranam' and when I told him he was amazed people bowed down to M. [Hey 'bow down to ME' right? Did you get the tape? (inside joke sorry guys)] Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Jul 14, 1998 at 22:05:20 (EDT)
From: Brian Email: brian@ex-premie.org To: Everyone Subject: Sharron's comments Message: Sherron Mayes (smayes@globalnet.co.uk) sent this in to the site. It's too wordy for the Letters page, so I'll post it here: I have known about Maharaj ji since I was aged six. I'm now 32. I agree that in the seventies it was a very weird time. There were a lot of hippy attitudes and Maharaj ji was very young. Today, though things are very different. Maharaj ji has had a difficult job on his hands, but he has succeeded in bringing clarity. The ashrams are gone. The attitudes about being vegetarian etc are gone. All that exists is a desire to have an experience of who we really are. Maharaji is an inspiration. He travels constantly to many countries to talk about the connection inside, in a way that amazes me. He is only a man, with a family - yet he has dedicated his life to his work. All I can say, is that from my experience knowledge works and Maharaj ji never asks anything from anyone, but to give knowledge a try. I have seen some people, my brother included, who travel constantly to see him, become incredibly religious about the whole thing and act like zombies. But that is their character and their choice. I personally haven't ever donated much money. I've not had money to donate. I've not risked my job to see him around the world. I've not dedicated myself in service. I have very simply enjoyed a simple experience which for me is like 'flying inside'. It is an incredible gift. Maharaj ji is funny, straight forward and inspiring. He's a perfect teacher. The bottom line is that some people are obsessive. They'd probably go nutty even if they had a love affair with someone. You see a reflection of what you are in something. There is no cult, there is no brain washing. There is only an opportunity to experience something deep inside - if the person wishes to. Please don't denigrate Maharaj ji anymore. He has taken on a lot. Even if he doesn't always act perfectly, or has loads of money, he is only human and why shouldn't he live well. What is the issue about suffering and being poor being the right way. Why not live well and celebrate life. Why shouldn't he. He's not making people give money to him. It's free will. The main issue should be the effort he puts in to take knowledge all over the world. You should check out what's he's doing now. He's worked hard to bring clarity. If the truth is what you desire - check your facts for now, instead of going on about the past. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Jul 14, 1998 at 22:35:04 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Brian Subject: Sherron's a fool Message: God, Brian, why do I have to keep reading this shit? This girl's an idiot and I'm going to email her as much. Here's what I'll say: Dear Sherron, Brian just posted your email about Maharaji and I'd like to thank you for demonstrating extreme superficiality to me once again. Ah, it takes a premie, doesn't it? Sherron, you're an idiot. At least, you're acting like one. Let me give you an example. You say, at one point, 'The attitudes about being vegetarian etc are gone.' Let's be a little more sepcific, shall we? I recently posted a quote of Maharaji's where he explained why we should be vegetarian. Know waht his reason was? Get this -- because plants are dead and animals are alive. Maharaji described how he thought life worked. Animals, he explained, come from living things but plants, he said, come from dead things, seeds. Now, Sherron, we all know that seeds are not dead, don't we? So here's this supposed 'master', advertised as eternally wise, merged with whatever you want to say, and steeped in the wisdom of God. Yet he doesn't even know anything about life. Literally. What does that tell you? Come on, honestly now, what does tah tell you? If you'd been there when he said that would you have had the independence of mind to tell him he was extremely wrong? If so, what do you think would have happened? If not, how much different does that make you than your 'zombie' brother? You say Maharaji's simply a man. Here's Maharaji in his own words: 1)Who is Guru? The highest manifestation of God is Guru. So when Guru is here, God is here, to whom will you give your devotion? 2)Guru Maharj Ji knows all. Guru Maharaji is Brahma (creator). Guru Maharaji is Vishnu (Operator). Guru Maharjai is Shiva (Destoryer of illusion and ego). And above all, Guru Mahraji is the Supremest Lord in person before us. 3)I have come so powerful. I have come for the world. Whenever the great come,the worldly oppose them. Again I have come and you are not listening. Every ear should hear that the saviour of humanity has come. There should be no chance for anyone to say that they haven't heard of Guru Maharaj Ji. Those who have come to me are already saved. Now its your duty to save others. Shout it on the streets. Why be shy? 4)When human beings forget the religion of humanity, the Supreme Lord incarnates. He takes a body and comes on this earth ...... 5) When human beings forget this one way, then our Lord, who is the Lord of the whole universe, comes in human body to give us practical Knowlege, .... 6) But, most ironically, we don't appreciate the Lord when He comes in His human body on this earth. 7) Similarly, a Satguru, a Perfect Master, a Supreme Lord who is existing in the present time, can give you the practical Knowledge of the real thing... 8) So God Himself comes to give practical Knowledge of His divinity, of His inner self, which is self-effulgent light, eternal light, all-pervading light. **** And the Supreme Master, the Satguru, gives practical Knowledge of that light, irrespective of caste, creed, color, religion or sex, to those human individuals who bow before him with reverence, with love and with faith. Maybe there's a reason your brother's a freak. Sherron, I hate superficiality. That's the only thing you demonstrate here. So you like the white-noise experience of mediation. Big deal. That doesn't mean you can't be a thinking human being. You think your brother's a zombie but, from my perspective, you're every bit as disassociated from your rightful mind as any hardcore premie I've come accross. Indeed, you ARE the epitome of the modern 'knowledge lite' premie. You know nothing, don't wanna, think nothing.... Makes me sick. Jim Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Jul 14, 1998 at 23:40:03 (EDT)
From: Mickey the Pharisee Email: None To: Jim Subject: Sherron's a fool Message: Well said, Jim. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jul 15, 1998 at 00:02:13 (EDT)
From: Victoria Email: None To: Sherron Subject: Sherron's a fool Message: I think you've got the cart before the horse on that extremist stuff, Sherron. Before I met the premies and aspired to a life of devotion to the satguru, I was quite the Greek --- moderation in all things --- quite the Renaissance-woman --- jack of all trades, little of this, little of that. After Maharaji, I've had difficulty putting the brakes on when it comes to emotional, trusting sort of things...which leads to having difficulty getting started the next time, if you know what I mean. But I'm working on it. Victoria Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jul 15, 1998 at 01:24:20 (EDT)
From: Gail Email: None To: Sherron Subject: Sherron's a fool Message: Dear Sherron; MJ recently stated that Indian vegetarian food was the best food for the human body. He said the special blend of herbs and spices in the Indian cooking was perfect for digestion. Have you heard the latest CD. e.g. Lord, when I met you I was a beggar, But now I feel like a king So strong, How can I go wrong. I can do most anything. I can walk on water. Throw my arms around the sun But the love I feel from you You give me everything. All I really want. I feel like a king . . . Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jul 15, 1998 at 02:44:01 (EDT)
From: Bareny Email: None To: Gail Subject: Sherron's a fool Message: Gail, MJ did say that, but the context, I believe, MJ was not advocating a diet for people to follow. I believe that he might have been talking about food in general or he might have been giving the Indians a hard time. The next line he said was something like 'but then Indians have had little else to do, but hang out and perfect food for thousands of years' And, IMHO, Indian food is pretty darn tasty. I would agree with Sherron that these days there is a lot less rigorous demands put on lifestyle, which is a welcome relief for those who do want to get into it. I don't want to be labelled as an apologist or anything, but MJ has in some ways made it more palatable. However, in some of the sterility and zoombie-like qualities of the Introductory Videos and the aspirant process he may have gone too far. Certainly, he wants to keep the premies removed from the process because premies have historically been sources of misinformation and he cannot control that information. Do you remember all the B.S. WE put out? I'm both embarassed and ashamed. One of my issues or questions regarding the cult experience is to what degree were WE responsible for hearing what might or might not have been B.S. and then amplifying it and distorting it and echoing ad infinitum. For example, the Houston AstroDome Millenium extravaganza. Let's say that WE were the source of some of that high-flying rumors about it and MJ is asked about it either by the press or even premies. Any publicist will tell you to not even acknowledge or deal with trying to explain away such things. I do, however, believe that some of the things MJ says are inappropriate or even irresponsible considering the audience - suckers. However, some of the stuff is reasonable, although not exceptional and divine. It is the former (i.e. forget about saving for retirement) that I find disturbing and dangerous. Nevertheless, the current version still has a mind control feel, although much subtler than what the old timers dealt with. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jul 15, 1998 at 10:21:18 (EDT)
From: Brian Email: brian@ex-premie.org To: Bareny Subject: Sherron's a fool Message: You're dancing on both ends of the pin here. He's a cult leader, but at least he's trying??? Some of his devotional experiments may have gone too far??? I would agree with Sherron that these days there is a lot less rigorous demands put on lifestyle, which is a welcome relief for those who do want to get into it. This would only be a 'welcome relief' to those stupid enough to live their lives according to this blowhard's words. That he doesn't insist on this particular behavior is hardly glowing praise for a control freak. I don't want to be labelled as an apologist or anything, but MJ has in some ways made it more palatable. However, in some of the sterility and zoombie-like qualities of the Introductory Videos and the aspirant process he may have gone too far. An apologist has a single place to stand. Fishermen try to make hooks more palatable, but it's not done as a favor to the fish. Maharaji's personality shines through in those sterile and zombie-like videos. He's the director, editor, writer, and star of the show. That there is no content only reveals what little he has to offer to people. That they actually sit there and watch shows how little they expect from their Master. Certainly, he wants to keep the premies removed from the process because premies have historically been sources of misinformation and he cannot control that information. Maharaji IS a premie!! He was 8-years-old when his father died. Do you actually think that at some point after that he had a revelation as to the 'correct' way to say or do anything? His devotees are are following a child-like idiot. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jul 15, 1998 at 06:49:26 (EDT)
From: Sir David Email: David.Studio57@btinternet.com To: Gail Subject: Indian food Message: All those hot spices play havoc with the stomach and the figures show that the incidence of stomach cancer is higher in India than in the west. Doctors here say that the Mediteranean diet is the best. Personally I like the occasional Indian meal but I could never live on it. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jul 15, 1998 at 12:18:31 (EDT)
From: Barney Email: None To: Sir David Subject: Indian food Message: Sir, You are making an allegation... Please notify the authorities or file a lawsuit. Hmmm, I didn't know that (high incidence of stomach cancer.) I'll take your word for it and assume that there is genuine scientific evidence behind it (see how easy I am.) So, MJ as I remember was speaking of Vedantic cooking or something is disseminating more bad info. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jul 15, 1998 at 13:23:27 (EDT)
From: Selena Email: None To: Sir David Subject: Indian food Message: Plus there's no cheese!!!! except for that white stuff in the creamed spinach stuff. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jul 15, 1998 at 13:59:13 (EDT)
From: Bobby Email: None To: Sir David Subject: Indian food Message: Some of the hot spices are good for the system. I love Indian food! Really it's some of my favorite food in the whole world. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jul 15, 1998 at 11:59:41 (EDT)
From: CD Email: None To: Gail Subject: vegie food Message: >MJ recently stated that Indian vegetarian food was the best food for the human body. He said the special blend of herbs and spices in the Indian cooking was perfect for digestion. That may be his preference but he did not tell people to become vegetarians. And yes, he did tell the story about the mice who thought the cat was a vegetarian. And, remember your history about the origin of the most common spices in use in European cooking. My personal experience with being a vegetarian is that it is a great diet. You can be plenty strong and healthy if you eat good vegie food. Many people in the US would be healthier on a vegie diet with a good balance of foods. If somebody prefers to eat meat, fine! I guess I should not be suprised to now see reactionary views towards eating vegie food on this forum. CD Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jul 15, 1998 at 12:16:59 (EDT)
From: Gerry Email: None To: CD Subject: vegie food Message: Ah CD, back with more incisive commentary, this time on forum participants' diets. Yes some of us DO eat meat, and from what I've read they (myself included--two or three times a week and that includes fish) do so in moderation. How reactionary! Hey bonehead, I believe Jim said he was a vegetarian. How's that fit into your neat little prepackaged cult tainted ''thinking?'' And, remember your history about the origin of the most common spices in use in European cooking. What's this, filler? Or did you just remember something from one of BM's enlightening wordly wise satsang babbles? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jul 15, 1998 at 13:40:57 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: CD Subject: fish food Message: That may be his preference but he did not tell people to become vegetarians. Chris, What do you think of Maharaji's once saying that we should eat plants in order to avoid eating living things? Remember? That was the question and answer session I posted a month or so ago where Maharaji gave this ludicrous kindergarten story about animals coming from a 'cycle of life' and plants from a 'cycle of death'. Seeds, he explained, were dead. Recall how he urged the premies to accept his answer, going so far as to say that he'd actually 'experienced' this idiocy. Hm? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jul 15, 1998 at 04:35:42 (EDT)
From: TD Email: None To: Brian Subject: Sharron's comments Message: My God, you web-site veterans must get tired of these kind of letters. I've only been here a very short time, and I just read that and went 'Oh here we go again.' Battle fatigue sets in fairly quickly, eh? I've made another conclusion. Not only are there a lot of closed mind premies, there are a hell of a lot of lazy ones. Sharron (if you are also reading this), why not go and read through all the old forums/journeys etc, and then come back when you've become an ex-premie. Yes, there's lots to go through, and you may not get through them all, but keep on reading the truth until eventually it dawns on you that it is the truth. That will be a very significant moment in your life. And another thing Sharron, if you couldn't be bothered to read the forum/journeys, enlist for lots more service with Maharaji and you'll soon see that the set-up is NOT as innocent as you are presented with. Many things have changed since the 70's, but many things have not. They have just evolved to a degree of sophistication where the manipulation is much more subtle and concealed. Regards, TD Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jul 15, 1998 at 13:20:42 (EDT)
From: selena Email: None To: Brian Subject: Sharron's comments Message: I think we should post this somewhere as an explanation of the term 'knowledge lite' Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jul 15, 1998 at 14:45:00 (EDT)
From: x Email: x2000@goplay.com To: new premies Subject: Get Help Sharron Message: I never thought I would find myself defending the premie scene of the 70's, but compared to the sterile, mindless knowledge lite of the 90's, the old lord of the universe days are looking better and better. Can you even imagine, new premies? You are really missing out. Can you believe premies used to be allowed,even encouraged to talk to one another? They used to get to share their experiences together? They got to kiss tt. The old premies hide it well, but they really can't help feeling superior to the newbies, who missed the really good times from the past.I know they feel pride that 'they were there'. I don't blame them, The scene now is about 100 times staler than it was in the 70's and thats not saying much. All the new premies(are they even called that still) are getting the refined, slick, commercial, supremely boring version of something that was never real, even when it was sort of cool. At least in the old days things were semi-spontaneous and not completely robotic. Hell I might even have joined back then(ha ha), but I wouldnt even consider it now. You have to really be a disturbed masochist to join now. sincerly x Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jul 15, 1998 at 23:09:35 (EDT)
From: eb Email: None To: x Subject: Get Help Sharron Message: Dear x, I have often wondered why anyone would get involved now. Where's the hook? I have lots of friends from the 70's who have accepted knowledge lite, but they are smug, as you suggest. One question: 'kiss tt'???? eb Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 16, 1998 at 01:00:02 (EDT)
From: VP Email: None To: eb Subject: Get Help Sharron Message: 'I have often wondered why anyone would get involved now. Where's the hook?' Apparently it's chocolate and coffee mugs-snicker! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 16, 1998 at 18:43:35 (EDT)
From: x Email: None To: eb Subject: Get Help Sharron Message: I meant to say 'kiss the lotus feet', somehow it turned into tt, just a harmless typo. x Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jul 15, 1998 at 18:05:22 (EDT)
From: PaulR Email: pgrobinson@hotmail.com To: Brian Subject: Sharron's comments Message: Dear Brian, What makes this short letter too wordy for the letters page? I don't understand. Also you should NOT allow people to slander Indian Food. It violates my religion. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jul 15, 1998 at 19:28:04 (EDT)
From: TD Email: None To: Brian Subject: Sharron's comments Message: As Sharron left her e-mail address, I wonder how many nanoseconds passed by before some concerned premie e-mailed and told her not to participate/read this site as it 'is poison'. (That is what was said to me when I said I'd been reading it!) TD Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Jul 14, 1998 at 18:43:56 (EDT)
From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Let's be PRACTICAL MB/BM! Message: You said: I am beginning to think that we should really be taking the initiative on the issue and 'officially' taking the case to M (This is, of course if the victims are willing to engage in such a process, of course it may not be desirable to subject them to further trauma and pain). Basical the idea would be to 'officially' present to M that there are allegations of a serious criminal nature that will be pursued legally to punish the perpertrators through the full force of the law if verified, and that he may be culpable on the basis that he was advised of the incidents but allegedly has done nothing about it. I think the main aim should be to make an example of the perpertrators so that the victims can feel that situation is vindicated I'm asking you know: YOU be practical and ask the llr what's HIS opinion about these abuse/assault/rape cases! He HAS every mean to do this with HIS instructors, namely Padarthanand, Jagdeo, Rody, Dr John Horton. I want a written answer from him. I won't discuss this any further with you, everything else has already been answered in lenght in previous posts, beside that again: you are NOT the person to judge how me and other ex-premies will recover from their shock. This web-site has proved it's efficiency for me, and for some other exes, including ex-aspirants, like the one I just spent one day with (a lovely person just recovering from all the BS belief she started to get caught in). Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Jul 14, 1998 at 20:58:24 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: Yes, the aspirants!! Message: That's it, JM, the aspirants. If we can just find a way to access the aspirants specifically. Who cares about the premies? They'll follow. Imagine, all we have to do is make it really clear to any aspirant that the only way they got as far as they did on Maharaji's ship of fools is by not asking questions. Get them to ask questions -- informed questions -- and he's sunk. Perhaps we should draft some good, basic questions for aspirants to print off, should they ever find the page, and ask Maharaji or whoever they're allowed to talk with these days. Like: 1) I understand that there is an ex-premie web site where numerous former premies complain that you won't answer their questions. Many say that they've written you extensive letters but that you simply stonewall them. Is there an avenue for dissatisfied premies to talk with you? If so what is it? 2) I understand that you have two older brothers, besides Raja Ji, whom you used to respect and call part of your Holy Family. The eldest, Satpal, apparently calls himself 'Guru Maharaj Ji' now and claims that he, not you, is the real heir to your father's throne. Obviously, you say otherwise. Why should we believe you, him or really, either one of you? Are you willing to debate your brother in public? 3) How exactly did you come into this job? What makes you so special? Are you aware of the Rhadhasoami tradition? Isn't that where your father and his guru lineage stems from? Are you familiar with the book Paramhansa Advait Mat? It's about your own guru lineage, isn't it? Have you read it? Do you think it's wrong for premies to read a book like that? Why? How about Hans Yog Prakesh? Have you read that? How about the edition put out by your brother, Satpal? 4) How can I tell if this is a cult? I'm being asked to distrust my mind? Isn't that the one common characteristic of all cults? 5) What mistakes have you made as a guru so far? Are you still capable of making mistakes? What should we do if we think you're wrong about something? Again, why won't you talk with your former followers? 6) Why am I being asked to leave? Is it something I said? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jul 15, 1998 at 11:14:32 (EDT)
From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Jim Subject: Action / aspirant! Message: Yes ! Why not having some printed brochure available at aspirants meetings? Just an idea.... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jul 15, 1998 at 08:02:12 (EDT)
From: Mel Bourne Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: Let's be PRACTICAL MB/BM! Message: 'YOU be practical and ask the llr what's HIS opinion about these abuse/assault/rape cases! 'He HAS every mean to do this with HIS instructors, namely Padarthanand, Jagdeo, Rody, Dr John Horton. I want a written answer from him' Dear Maharaji, The above is a quote from a recent post on the ex-premie web site from Jean MicheI If you are reading this, would you please care to give a written answer. It may clear up alot of confusion and ease alot of pain, for everyone here and maybe even yourself. Thank you Yours sincerely M.Bourne Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jul 15, 1998 at 08:15:06 (EDT)
From: Richard Email: None To: Mel Bourne Subject: Huh! Message: I have a sense of deja vu Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jul 15, 1998 at 10:16:30 (EDT)
From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Mel Bourne Subject: Let's be PRACTICAL MB/BM! Message: No comment. Self explanatory curriculum. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Jul 14, 1998 at 15:18:17 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Staying calm arguing w premies Message: is really tricky at times. Usually, people have all sorts of common ground in discussions. They can reason with each other, trust one anothers' good faith, sense of fairness and nuatral curiosity to know the truth. Premies, apparently every last one of them, have none of those qualities. Of course, not. They can't afford to. So it wasn't hard to feel the heat, for example, when JW told Mel Bourne yesterday that he was 'VERY ANGRY'. How dare someone distort the past so cavalierly. Premies have certainly turned into assholes. At least the ones who post here. See, there are assholes and there are assholes. The cult version, the premie version, is, necessarily (in keeping wiht the makeup) a smiley face. But it's a smiley face like that clown on the Simpsons, 'Crusty'. Sure, he's got a smile on, but he's a complete jerk beneath. Rick, going back to that discussion we had about whether or not we (or I, actually) were assholes as premies, I strongly dispute that I was ever anything like these guys. There has truly been a slide, I tell you. The river banks of human character have been eroded by the 'river of love' and it's extremely sad to see what's become of these people. I tell you, back then, I NEVER avoided the pith and substance of a question. NEVER. We had our answers, they might have been whacky, but they made some sort of sense if you assumed a few things. Now, for every point a premie wants to make, there's too much evidence against it in their own history or dogma. For example, somewhere around here that idiot Red Heart said something about Maharaji not urging austerity. I mean how does oen keep one's temper dealing with this level of ugly revisionism? Red Heart, Mel, PT, CD, if you guys are reading this, I curse you in the deepest way I can. I really curse you that if you have children that one day they will not only take you to task for throwing your lives away but that they will read your posts here and cry in your faces. That they cry in shame and horror at the paths their parents chose in life. I'm not a very vindictive guy, so I think that would be enough. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Jul 14, 1998 at 16:15:07 (EDT)
From: Rick Email: None To: Jim Subject: Staying calm arguing w premies Message: Okay, Jim, you fucking Prickhead, I'll bite. Your argument does hold weight. I can remember during introductory programs, how newcomers or asprirants would ask questions and very mildly debate a little point here and there, and how premies had a very neat outline to follow about how things were. Things were pretty simple then, philosophically speaking... Guru was god, knowledge was the key to nirvana/samadhi, Guru was the embodiement of knowledge, liberation was bitchen but devotion was the real prize. 'This life' was precious because we could know Guru, get knowledge, and serve Guru. It was all very neat. We were lucky - we had a bitchen real live cult with a real live Jesus. You're right that we didn't lie as much as these current bastards, but I remember many little Q and A's that premies had with newcomers. The 'God question' was always dealt with surreptitiously; I very rarely heard premies come right out and say 'Yes, Maharaji is God'. Often premies would change the subject or make some attempt to dodge the issue with a comment like, 'Well, maharaji reveals the knowledge. He says to realize knowledge is to know God. All maharaji does is show you something that's already within inside you.' Sometimes they would say something coy like 'Receive knowledge and you'll know'. I can clearly remember sitting in satsang with all the premies oozing superiority behind a facade of humility as newcomers and aspirants sat there feeling out of the loop. Premies would laugh arrogantly at all the 'in' jokes, little references to all the ways our Lord was divine, that only we knew. My real point Jim, during the earlier discussion about this, wasn't to say we were necessarily assholes, but that most of us were 'something'. I mean, there's a whole spectrum of distaste ranging from evil to insidious to malicious to passive-aggressive to obnoxious to annoying. I maintain that premies back then were distasteful. When I snapped out my programming, I still hung around, and I could taste 'bile' in my mouth when I really observed the subtle workings of the subculture - right down to the little meaningless interactions of premies with themselves and non-premies. Granted that the new breed of premie we experience on the forum is a very diseased species. But why? You mentioned earlier that it takes time for the stench to bake, and that we were just fresh meat. Perhaps. But I'm not sure all of these weasels are old premies. Some of them may be fairly recent initiates. It may be that the current structure of the cult allows for a premie's aberrations to surface in a more direct way. Remember we had a solid philosophy and a strong support system - we actually had something to DO (satsang, service and meditation). Being a devotee was a life. What we had in common with the current premies is that we felt an emptiness as young idealists. Fueled by the sixties and the drug culture we longed to get this dissatisfaction fulfilled. Along came BM and poof, we were turned into dummies? No, not exactly. Many people heard the BM and saw him for the piece of crap he is, immediately. Alot of people took one look at us (premies) and KNEW this whole thing was full of shit. Remember Abbie Hoffman in LOTU and his reference to Rennie Davis having always been 'stoic'. Why was Abbies head on straight and Rennie's wasn't? Luck of the draw? I don't think so. My hit on Rennie in that flick was that he was perverted in some way; I'm sure for good reason (I used to be). And Abbie wasn't exactly a calming influence but he was REAL. Premies in the seventies sold out a bit of realness when they bought the fat Guru. Remember Abbie's hit on the Guru, 'If Maharaji is God, he's the God that America deserves'. So, one question in all this is, did the premies of the seventies have something in common that distinguished them from other young people of the same era, who would never buy BM's sorry sack of shit. Now, I know this is largely speculation, and that it's my own contaminated perception, but I submit that there was a peculiar psychological dysfunction that was appealed to by the BM cult. I could taste it and smell it, and I've talked to others who could also, so I feel sure enough to believe it. The main issue, is that if an ex-premie CAN see that they behaved in some obxnoxious way, or some way that was distasteful (however small), that it's honorable to throw it into the mix. But admittedly, what were seeing, at least on the Forum is much uglier than earlier premies displayed. I don't know if this is representative of the current premie community at large. If it is, it may be that the cult attracts a much bigger asshole. In any case, Jim, you're still a schmata in my eyes, and if you were half as obnoxious as a premie as you are now, you got some 'fessing up to do. Come on, Bubala. Here's a recent quote you made... At first, Maharaji's lackey/security/fuckfaces (people like you and I) tried to block the question. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Jul 14, 1998 at 16:41:06 (EDT)
From: Gerry Email: None To: Rick Subject: Staying calm arguing w premies Message: Rick, (Great post, BTW) I'll byte on this one: So, one question in all this is, did the premies of the seventies have something in common that distinguished them from other young people of the same era... I submit that there was a peculiar psychological dysfunction that was appealed to by the BM cult. I think there was indeed a particular dysfunction and it might explain the large numbers of Catholic and Jewish kids who were attracted to the cult. This is only my prospective, of course, but it might be the common denominator. In my case, I was told what to do and strictly prohibited by family, church and catholic school from exercising any judgement on my own. I made very few decisions of any consequence for myself. I was basically trained that I was a sinner and my basic impulses were wrong, and therefore could not decide things for myself. And then, at age eighteen, boom, a miracle occured and suddenly, at university, I was completely on my own and was to make all my decisions for myself. Needless to say those muscles were a little flabby. The lack of self trust this type of conditioning engenders is very unsettling and one grasps at something, anything that will bring about a sense of certainty and self assurance. Now throw psychedelics, mysticism (church brewed) and sprirituality into the mix and up steps the guru. I think that a lot of the kids (as evidenced by those participating in this forum) were indeed the brightest and most earnest as well as the least self assured of their peers. Ripe pickings for any cult. No wonder we were so smug and ''superior'' in attitude. It was a thin veneer for some very smart but very scared kids. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Jul 14, 1998 at 18:44:17 (EDT)
From: JW Email: None To: Rick Subject: Staying calm arguing w premies Message: So, one question in all this is, did the premies of the seventies have something in common that distinguished them from other young people of the same era, who would never buy BM's sorry sack of shit. Now, I know this is largely speculation, and that it's my own contaminated perception, but I submit thatthere was a peculiar psychological dysfunction that was appealed to by the BM cult. I could taste it and smell it, and I've talked to others who could also, so I feel sure enough to believe it. I don't know what you think the 'dysfunction' is, but I would call it 'gullibility' perhaps being naive? Perhaps even being idealistic. I think the 70s, especially the early 70s, which was really part of the 60s in terms of cultural events, was a more idealistic time. In general, I think people tended to be more open to the idealism of bringing peace to the planet and looking for solutions outside the established norms of our parents. It was a 'counter-culture' period and M just happened to arrive in the middle of it. He was, in my eyes, 'counter-culture' and he fulfilled my idealism. Some people are more naive and idealistic than others, and some people were in the wrong place at the wrong time and came under the influence of premies, became friends with them, and entered the cult that way. That was the primary route. This, of course, is the motivation to get INTO the cult. I think very few people became premies so they could lay trips on non-premies, other premies, or aspirants. Maybe some saw a spiritual power trip, but I think not many. Once in the cult, which was an entirely deceptive system, a premie quickly learned to deceive themselves and everyone else, to one degree or another. To not do that, meant your belief system got challenged, and perhaps destroyed. Since being a premie was central to a premie's very identity/surivial, he or she would put a lot of energy into protecting the beliefs from the contradictions, chief among them, the inconsistencies, greed, stupidity and cavalier uncarring of Maharaji himself. Because without M, no premies. No premie, not identity. Pretty basic really. Premies were and are dishonest and capable of incredible deception because they live in a dishonest and deceptive system. The true experience and reality of M is SO flimsy that great energy is exerted to protect it. Plus, when there were ahrams/communities we spent a lot of time reflecting the false reality to each other, always in an attempt to support ones own itentity. So, I don't think all premies were assholes, although some clearly were. And perhaps all premies were assholes sometimes, as almost everyone is. The same is true today, in my opinion. Some current premies are assholes and some aren't. But I think the reason premies make no sense when they argue is partly because they don't get any practice anymore saying what the cult-think is. They can't give satsang anymore, or hear anyone but M speak about it, so they aren't very good at it. Or at least they aren't as good at it as some premies were in the 70s. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Jul 14, 1998 at 19:03:52 (EDT)
From: JW Email: None To: Rick Subject: One More Thing Message: Regarding premies being assholes in the old days, part of the reason people are assholes is because they have the OPPORTUNITY to do so with little downside if they do. That was the case in the cult, vis a vis aspirants, new people and even other premies. They were captive recipients of the asshole behavior. But, again, I don't think all premies even took advantage of THAT. But it was there, and it usually exhibited itself as spiritual superiority. One thing I've noticed on the forum is the thing that sets off the anger in me the most about aome premies who post isn't illogical statements, or even dishonest revisionism, it's spiritual condescension. It just drives me to distraction. It'almost uncontrollable the reaction I have, I think because I received a lot of it as a premie who was considered somewhat 'non-spiritual.' I think this is the 'asshole' quality of premies that both now and in the past is the worst. One thing about a cult is that you get to feel superior to others who don't have the 'gift,' those who got confused and lost the 'experience,' and even those other premies or aspirants who don't have the level of 'understanding' you have. It's one of the few advantages a cult gives you, although even it's illusory for sure. Likely some of the people we were feeling superior to were at the same time feeling sorry for us for being so weird, or, worse, laughing at us behind our backs. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Jul 14, 1998 at 20:12:29 (EDT)
From: Rick Email: None To: JW Subject: One More Thing Message: JW, You captured alot of the premie disease in your last two posts. I saw the premie's peculiar dysfunction as underhanded interactions. Granted that the main thrust of most premie communication was concerning maharaji and knowledge, but in reality thoughts and feelings were being communicated without being direct and honest, and without having to be accountable. I can't help but think that alot of this was learned at home. When I was a premie, if someone pissed me off, the cult didn't allow honest emotional expression. It wasn't okay to be angry much less express it. But really, premies got as angry, depressed, disappointed, hurt and afraid as anyone. In order to join the cult, you had to have a certain predisposition and willingness to subjegate your feelings and expressions. It wasn't nearly as connected to the 'maharaji as God' syndrome as it was to the 'being like a lotus flower' idea - being 'detached'. Maharaji was the focus but as it's so apparent nowadays, we didn't even know who he was. I can't help but think that many premies, including myself, used him, to some extent, as a convenience. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Jul 14, 1998 at 20:48:33 (EDT)
From: JW Email: None To: Rick Subject: No Predispositon - Learning Message: When I was a premie, if someone pissed me off, the cult didn't allow honest emotional expression. It wasn't okay to be angry much less express it. But really, premies got as angry, depressed, disappointed, hurt and afraid as anyone. In order to join the cult, you had to have a certain predisposition and willingness to subjegate your feelings and expressions. Why did there have to be a predisposition? Why couldn't it be learned behavior? Learned behavior to conform in a group? The programming and group pressure not to express 'negativity' was and is so strong among premies that you learned early not to do it, or be considered a failure as a premie, perhaps be considered a 'bongo,' and certainly never being allowed to drive mahatma ji around town. Moreover, if you expressed it, you risked admitting to yourself that the knowledge didn't work, because knowledge was by definition was supposed to make you happy and blissful. I don't think most people recognized before getting involved that the premies were subjugating their feelings. I didn't. I believed they were really happy. Clearly, I wanted to believe it, badly, but that goes back to the gullibility and idealism, not to some dysfunction in my personality. Finally, even if there some correlation with 70s premiehood and difficulty in expressing feelings, and a willingness to repress them, I think that would apply to about 95% of catholic, jewish, and, especially, wasp families in the US, today as well as 20 years ago. So that would be a pretty big pool of potential cult members. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Jul 14, 1998 at 21:30:59 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: JW Subject: Born premies? Message: Joe, I agree with you that it's more likely that this kind of premie subjugation was learned behaviour rather than a distinguishing predisposition for most of us. In a closed world, such as ours was, it often takes no more than a raised eyebrow (like Anne Johnston's!) to keep things 'in order'. It's like asking what kind of person becomes a junkie? I think the answer's simple -- one who tries 'dabbling' in heroin. For all our more interesting psychological differences I think the main factors are just time and place. Happenstance. IF I didn't happen to want to impress Anne Harris (who's whole family were yoga teachers) I probably wouldn't have bought my big abridged volume of the classic Indian and Chinese scriptures, etc. etc. Ah, if only Anne had been an investment banker. I could have been one of those 18 year-olds who actually reads the Wall Street Journal. Oh, okay, don't get your hackles up. What if Anne had simply been a potter? Or a musician. Here's a simple story: When I was first going to satsang I went along with my buddy Paul Gellman. We were both in Toronto and both good friends with Steve Winbaum and Dave Wiener who gave us our first satsangs. Neither of us got k that first go around. However, I moved out west and, after a winter of acid in Vancouver, stumbled upon the Vancouver ashram. Big sign out front 'If my knowledge is perfect, respect me. If it's not, don't'). I was excited with recognition and perhaps the fact that I actually knew something about this trip. I was the young neophyte in psychedlia and spirituality to some of my housemates. Now, coming home with a potential guru, I really had something to show for myself, didn't I? (Eventually, everyone in the house -- nine people -- got k. I was a star. The one guy who didn't, whod said he ahd a few more things to do in life first, died of a freak heart attack the very day the rest all got initiated. Cosmic or what?) Anyway, I'm in Vancouver and Paul, my friend from Toronto, comes out west. I give him a bunch of satsang ... blah, blah, blah.. and he gets k. But, poor thing, he doesn't plug in, doesn't come to satsang and basically drops out. This was just before Maharaji came to Seattle in '74. I contacted Paul and gave him high-pitch satsang...BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH!. 'Come on, man, I know you've never really gotten into it but this is your chance! Once you've seen him, man...' Now here's the whole point of the story. Paul was a gifted musician and, as a teenager, he worshipped a big Canadian folk band called 'Perth County Conspiracy'. He'd even befriended them a bit before coming out west. In fact, he'd been in touch and they were preparing their own little Canadian tour. Paul was invited to help them set up some gigs. So... big dilemna. Childhood dream come true or a chance to fulfill the heart's eternal longing. Boy did I give him satsang..BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH!!!!. I could see the whole thing. Clearly, Maharaji was testing him. Well, what happened is that Paul went for the world. He never did see Maharaji and in fact escaped the cult quite neatly. Indeed, he actually joined the band for a few years! Lucky guy or what? And how did he make his fateful choice? I'd like to say he flipped a coin bt, you know, I don't really know the answer to that. I think I'll call him in Toronto right now and ask him. Back in a minute. **** He wasn't there. I left a message. Well, my point is that I think Paul could have gotten ensnared like any of us. OR we could each have skated away like he did. Luck, is how I'd put it. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jul 15, 1998 at 00:00:37 (EDT)
From: Rick Email: None To: Jim Subject: Born premies? Message: Sounds good, Jim, but I gotta wonder because I dabbled in heroin more than any 'ne'er do well' had a right to, and it just never 'took'. When I heard my first formal satsang at Larchmont in L.A. in '76, my mind was made up before I left the hall. You're right, who knows... but I'd put my money on Paul Gellman having a sight better judgment than the two of us. After all, if anything can happen, if we make choices simply by random, than cause and effect is diminished. Enlighten me here. I'm confused. I'm in my mind. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jul 15, 1998 at 00:28:34 (EDT)
From: g's mom Email: None To: all Subject: Born premies? Message: I think there are many good theories and ideas posted above. But I think it is a little like the Nature or Nurture argument. It's both. I remember bringing a few friends to satsang. No way were some people going to fall for the BS. Others lapped it up first time they heard a JSCA. I would say those who fall for the BS are more rare than those who do not. People who fell for it tended to be idealistic. Perhaps between phases in life. Out of a relationship, just started college... I think there was an element for many of us of a feeling of a family. I, being young, I think very much took comfort in the structure. I liled to that people hugged eachother and seemed to care so much for eachother. I liked the smiles. But I think most people when presented with the Guru did recoil and were revolted by the pranams etc. Most people saw him immediately for what he is. It is not exactly subtle. So I think we had some predisposition. It was likely a situational one. Quite likely if anyone of us were introduced to Mr Rawat and his special K at another time in our lives we too may have responded, ' You think that lil fat guy is what?' Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 16, 1998 at 01:38:47 (EDT)
From: Judex Email: None To: to g's mom Subject: Born premies? -to g's mom Message: Yes it's like that quote about 'when you can see infinity in a grain of sand and....then my son you'll be....a man'. Can't find the poem at the moment. Hey, a funny thing. The CD ROM encyclopedia I have started to use (mainly to look up new words at first but now for a lot more) I actually worked on creating last year (at a publishing company). Then I got really depressed and had to leave; it was too hard.I was starting to use HTML and stuff but I was under qualified for the technical side of the work. Isn't life strange - now I need it, at least I know how to use their unusual search engine. Anyway I will look for the poem again. Sorry if it doesn't make sense why I posted this here. It's an acumulation of eveything I've been reading today: why we went into knowledge, how we came out and where are we going? I see the birth of our new selves. Lots of love to everyone. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jul 15, 1998 at 00:34:35 (EDT)
From: Katie Email: None To: Rick Subject: Born premies? Message: Dear Rick - I have to agree with what Gerry said, except that my case was sort of inside-out from his. He wrote: In my case, I was told what to do and strictly prohibited by family, church and catholic school from exercising any judgement on my own. I made very few decisions of any consequence for myself. I was basically trained that I was a sinner and my basic impulses were wrong, and therefore could not decide things for myself. And then, at age eighteen, boom, a miracle occured and suddenly, at university, I was completely on my own and was to make all my decisions for myself. Needless to say those muscles were a little flabby. The lack of self trust this type of conditioning engenders is very unsettling and one rasps at something, anything that will bring about a sense of certainty and self assurance. Now throw psychedelics, mysticism (church brewed) and sprirituality into the mix and up steps the guru. I think that a lot of the kids (as evidenced by those participating in this forum) were indeed the brightest and most earnest as well as the least self assured of their peers. Ripe pickings for any cult. I have to say that this was true for me, except that I had to MAKE all my decisions and moral judgements for myself from the age of about 13 onwards because my parents decided to abdicate responsibility. I made almost ALL decisions of consequence for myself, but I did this believing that I was a bad person. I wasn't old enough to make informed choices (my muscles weren't all that flabby - I just didn't have any yet) and I made a lot of really bad decisions about my life. For example, I was a straight A student who dropped out of high school at the beginning of 10th grade because the people who I hung around with believed the end of the world was coming. Things like that... The premies were irresistable to me because they were caring, orderly, and HAD RULES. (They actually seemed, and were, sensible and sane after a lot of the other people that I'd encountered.) Someone else was going to make the decisions for me, and (I thought) someone else was going to care about me, and that's what I really wanted. Like Gerry said: it gave me certainty and self-assurance, not to mention a family,which I desperately needed at the time. In answer to what Jim said - I honestly don't think today's premies are all that different than we were then. I don't know how obnoxious I was - it's hard to separate just being young from being obnoxious. But consider people like Gail and Selena and Jude and RT - they were just premies recently, and they are great people. (There are probably many other new exes on this site that I'm forgetting.) My point is that we were just like them, and they are like we were. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jul 15, 1998 at 00:39:56 (EDT)
From: G's mom Email: None To: Katie Subject: agree wholeheartedly Message: What attracted me was exactly as you describe Katie Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jul 15, 1998 at 00:46:30 (EDT)
From: Katie Email: None To: G's mom Subject: agree wholeheartedly, too Message: Hi G's mom - I read your post just after I posted mine and I also thought our feelings at the time were quite similar (not to mention serendipitous). Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jul 15, 1998 at 11:28:31 (EDT)
From: Rick Email: None To: Katie Subject: Born premies? Message: Katie, Your story is somewhat different than most others I've heard. It is hard to imagine you being obxnoxious but it's clear that even some of the nicest premies were troubled. You're definitely a convincing case of a really nice person becoming a premie. Rick Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jul 15, 1998 at 11:35:16 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Rick Subject: Yeah? What about ME? Message: You're definitely a convincing case of a really nice person becoming a premie. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jul 15, 1998 at 11:51:55 (EDT)
From: Rick Email: None To: Jim Subject: Yeah? What about ME? Message: You're a big fat, wanking, whinging, incontinent, babbling, drooling schmeckelhead. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jul 15, 1998 at 11:39:42 (EDT)
From: Katie Email: None To: Rick Subject: Born premies? Message: Thanks, Rick, but I wasn't all that nice back then. I mean, I acted 'nice', but I was really insecure so sometimes I did or said things that I am not proud of now. I suppose all teenagers do some insecure acting-out, but I think I felt particularly bad about myself and thus acted pretty badly at time (self-pitying, manipulative, etc.) I didn't like the person who I was back then and have worked hard to change. But I don't think my behaviour would have been any different if I hadn't become a premie. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jul 15, 1998 at 11:44:06 (EDT)
From: Rick Email: None To: Katie Subject: Born premies? Message: That makes sense. Not all confused kids who acted wierd became premies. But I think most premies acted wierd. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Jul 14, 1998 at 23:34:19 (EDT)
From: Mickey the Pharisee Email: None To: JW Subject: No Predispositon - Learning Message: I am sure that it was learned behaviour; I don't believe that we had a predisposition. We just spent so much time lying to ourselves and to each other that we rationalized all that stuff. Redheart and PT are doing the same thing; it is so sad to see them going over the same ground I went over twenty years ago. I really hate the self-righteousness and the belief that we just didn't understand or were not faithful enough. I wanted K to be real, and I wanted it to be the core of my being, but it wasn't; it was merely eyeball squeezing and breath monitering. If PT truly was the only Premie who didn't believe that M was the Lord of the Universe and God incarnate, it must have been a very lonely existence, as everyone in premiedom believed it. Premies want to believe that they have the real truth, but if they do any honest self-reflection, I think that it will become obvious that they are fooling themselves. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Jul 14, 1998 at 20:28:38 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Rick Subject: Sweet Message: Yes, Rick, always a pleasure. You know, I wonder. I really wonder how much I did lie and dissemble back then. The one area I know I did is in exaggerating my experiences at times to impress new people. Or perhaps exaggerating my 'love' a bit when singing my lovely Guru Maharaj Ji songs. But those are small transgressions, let's be honest. No, I was -- we were -- just as you've described: secure in a clear if extremely deluded unifed vision of reality. The vision had very fuzzy edges but we were discouraged from and so did not let our minds stray there. My only point here was not to draw you back into your favorite topic. It was to make the point that HOWEVER we were, these guys are worse. I did NOT intentionally lie to people. Sorry, fella, I just didn't. When they asked me if Maharaji was God I usually told them 'yes' although I hastened to add the usual premie qualifiers (that one has to expereience God inside to even understand the real meaning of the term, that 'we're all God' in the sense that he's just already merged with the same goo he's showing us how to melt into, that the mind can never really grasp the meanging of such a phrase, whatever). These guys here are shameless liars. If you want to make the point that any one of us who'd stayed in the cult this long would be forced to play the same game, of course, I agree. But, for whatever reasons, we left and are free to call this level of gross irresponsibility for what it is. I'd give anything to talk with a premie of old. You know what it'd be like? It'd be like talking with the guy who runs the Satpal page. He's got a simple story, he tells it straight and that's about it. Confronted with the fact that his guru lied to him about how he became a guru (i.e. AFTER his kid brother), he's stymied. He doesn't have access to the library of evasive game-playing manoeuvres that are now the stock and trade of Maharaji and his people. I'm embarrassed for being a premie but not that much. I understand how I got sucked in. It happens. But the kind of lying and decepetion these current premies demonstrate here are going to be serious open wounds for them should they ever snap out of it. That's what I think, anyway. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jul 15, 1998 at 09:56:05 (EDT)
From: Rick Email: None To: Jim Subject: Sweet Message: Okay, Jim, I had a little time to think about this. Bringing up the subject of how whacked the current premies are on the Forum is hard for me to address without addressing what you call my 'favorite subject'. To consider the elements of their phenomenon without considering ourselves is pointless, at least for me. What's different and similar about these premies compared to us, and what's different and similar about the cult now and then, is relevant. It's harder to identify and quantify the psychological factors that would have predisposed someone to join and follow BM, than it is to identify and quantify the religious, cultural and economic ones. With rare exception, people fall into those categories easily; someone's either Catholic, Jewish, Protestant, etc., or upper, upper-middle, middle, or low class. In that way, it's closer to a round or square peg, fitting into a round or square hole. In the case of psychological determinants, it's a bit like the peg can be a multitude of shapes and dimensions that change fluidly. So it's hard to even assess what shape and dimension the peg was when it fit into the hole. The 'hole' itself, in this situation, also changed fluidly, as the specific, particular environment that 'invited' an individual to join the cult, changed also, according to what was happening that month or year, location of the community, who the surrounding premies were, etc. The situation you mentioned with the friends you lived with, created a different psychological scenario than would have existed if they heard about BM and knowledge and were ushered in and cultivated as premies in a different way. This doesn't negate or diminish that there were psychological factors at work; it's just not easy to distill what they were. Since we're in a process of discovery here, and not simply grabbing a preferential position for an argument (and holding on to it), it's safe to say there had to be some psychological factors at work, in joining this particular cult... I mean other than generic factors like gullibility, idealism or naivete. I mean peculiar factors. After all, the most prevelant response to BM, DLM/EV, Knowledge, 'the works' that I used to and still do receive from people who never joined and claim they never would have, is 'How peculiar'. It's also difficult to assess what the peculiar psychological factors were, that influenced individuals to join BM, because individuals are hodgepodges of characteristics, easily disguised by defenses used to 'survive' emotionally. It's never safe to conclude without doubt, that a certain symptom in a personality, definitely means a certain cause created it. The meaningful reason to consider this area is primarily to discover more about ourselves, but it's also very interesting to look at the sub-cultural phenonomon of the BM cult, and glean a small understanding (if possible) of what made people tick psychologically, to do something so crazy with their lives. Things in life are less mystical than we used to think, and also, less things are mystical than we used to think. Here we are, all this years later, still pulling the rods out of our assholes, wondering how they got there - looking at other people with rods still up there assholes... shaking our heads, tsk, tsk, tsk. How did we have so little dignity? How did we let ourselves progress into so little dignity? We were duped, yeah; but we were bent over, elbows rested on bended knees and smiling. That's fucking perverted. You have to consider that along with the different shapes that individuals were in, and different environments that invited these people into the cult, that there were different 'states' of premiedom. Alot of premies were just 'standing there' staring, and then there were those that were whispering to themselves 'Please maharaji, just give me the grace to surrender... Please Lord, don't let me fall.' So it's important to consider what level of insanity a particular individual finally rested at for a considerable amount of time. I agree with JW's point, that different types of insanity are permeable throughout our culture and any culture. It isn't to say that everyone was normal and we weren't. People, as a general lot, are pretty fucked up. They often don't say what they mean, mean things other than what they say, and hide their motives. Most of the time, they may not even know their motives. My final point is that lying and dissembling is only one element of many that characterize the craziness of premies. I believe you when you say you were basically honest and told the truth. I think for the most part, I did also. It isn't to say that you or I, or any premie, weren't basically sound people. The valuable education here is sifting through the sand and finding a few pebbles of evidence that connect the smell of shit on your shoe, that you spent a decade trying to get off, with why you were walking where you were walking. Maybe it wasn't all just random. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 16, 1998 at 01:04:51 (EDT)
From: Judex Email: None To: Rick Subject: to Rick Message: . Now, I know this is largely speculation, and that it's my own contaminated perception, but I submit that there was a peculiar psychological dysfunction that was appealed to by the BM cult. I could taste it and smell it, and I've talked to others who could also, so I feel sure enough to believe it. Rick this statement interests me, could you say more about WHAT you think it is? Fascinating to pick our scabs, eh? I can see mine right now. Everything that left that taste in my mouth just before I left was me. But is it the same 'virus'? I just wonder. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 16, 1998 at 01:18:00 (EDT)
From: Judex Email: None To: Judex Subject: to Rick also Message: Also Rick I posted once a little question my daughter asked me: if you went to jail what would you take? The reason I liked this was that I thought it gives a clue. eg: what you came out of the cult with is what you went in with (minus what was transformed?) Also, what you took with you (perhaps concealed?) is the way you got out also. Is it the same thing that stopped us from getting what we sought out of the situation (ie our withholds). No, that would be insanity to throw away the key before going into prison, thinking we were free at last. I don't know. This topic makes me think of Kabir again 'Student, do the simple purification' and then he talks about the seed being within the tree. It is all gobstoppingly amazing, really. When I was a child in boarding school I dreamed of Maharaji. When I first saw him the first video I ever saw, I recognized him. When I touched M's hand, I touched it in the same place as I saw my father's hand burned black in a dream (after he died.) NOw there is a large and beautiful Kurrawong sitting at my window looking at me with big bright eyes a la Carlos Castanada. I was told this morning these birds are killing all the other birds in our city. They eat their young. The world sure is suffering and my heart is feeling it. The world has cancer, I would say. Yet there is hope for the future. Where I live it is green and safe, right now, and new babies are amazingly conscious and joyful. when pressed from a woman who has been watching the news about ALL the symptoms of the disease earth has, I foudn myself thinking longingly of that seed inside the tree, and wondering whether M was right; that is the only safe place. Just wanted to get some of this out. Hope that's okay. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 16, 1998 at 12:50:30 (EDT)
From: Rick Email: None To: Judex Subject: to Rick also Message: It's okay, Judex, but now you gotta listen to my ramblings. One of the primary occurences in the premie world, or most cults for that matter, is dissociating thoughts and feelings. Usually, some things have taken place in our lives that we didn't 'digest' completely because of the pain, hurt and discomfort. I think this happens to everyone in different ways and on different levels. What results are 'disconnected' thoughts and ideas. They make sense to us, and sometimes to a few others, but not to alot of people. Underneath these thoughts is pain and turmoil that we can't seem to go near. The pain and turmoil generates hopes, dreams and wishes that we express in an indirect way, because we can't seem to resolve the dread of the hopelessness we feel. But we still 'reach' for the most human comforts, to love and be loved, and feel safe and wanted. I'm assuming this is what you're relating. Yes, of course I can understand this. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 16, 1998 at 12:32:56 (EDT)
From: Rick Email: None To: Judex Subject: to Rick Message: Hi Judex, Yes, it's fascinating but this isn't scab picking - more like fostering a better understanding. That's helpful to do; it makes you wiser and feel better. Also, if you dinged anyone along the way, you can explain or apologize. It's hard for me to imagine that all the residual bad taste you have from the cult is you. As you know, when you get together with a group of people for anything, there's a dynamic that develops and usually everyone plays a part. It isn't a matter of blaming anyone or ultimately blaming yourself. It's more a case of identifying specific events or incidents and how they went down. People had different experiences with BM and premies, and they have different interpretations. What I've understood is that to some extent, the premie cult was a place to hide from some uncomfortable things in life - responsibility, accountability, emotions, negative but TRUE thoughts, confrontation and communication. This is just some of it. You ask if what you 'taste' is the same 'virus'. I assume you mean is what you 'taste' (remember, recall, and feel as residual) the same as what I was describing in my previous post. I think it may not be the same but I don't know. It may be that you interpret what happened differently, which would mean you think it's a different virus. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Jul 14, 1998 at 16:32:17 (EDT)
From: bftb Email: None To: Jim Subject: Staying calm arguing w premies Message: Jim, When I first started reading the old forums,I really thought you were a prick.I could not for the life of me understand where you were coming from and your anger was so palpable and real,and you seemed very aggressive. What I didn't understand at the time was that 25 years of conditioning had softened my critical faculties to the point that I couldn't see who was actually full of shit and who was being honest.Who was truly aggressive,and who was just humanly venting. Over time I came to see that you were not in fact mean or a prick or any of those things that I thought in the beginning.You were however pissed and frustrated.And with good reason.As I realised that what you and others went through was so radically different then what I had been through,I started to understand the anger better.It must be very frustrating to have given your vital years away,not to mention precious $$$$,and then be told by the current version of the indoctrinated that all you'd gone through was your fault!I know I'd be pissed,possibly even more so then you guys are. As time went on it also became clear how unfairly so many of the premies play.They just won't answer sometimes. One of the key components in my ongoing de-conditioning has been to witness the continued and persistent intellectual dishonesty of so many of the premies who post here.I know it's usually coming from a place of self defence(their perception)or it's somehow all part of the 'I must protect this blessed belief system I've invested my life in at all costs'coping mechanism,but it's still very frustrating.And now that I've experienced the chill of premie non response for myself i can appreciate your frustration all the more. They can't even answer basic questions sometimes.For example: PT;why DO you care so much if M did or didn't say he was God? It's such an innocent question.Why can't it be answered?What's the big deal?I mean if they'd get honest and really dive in and not just shuck and jive,then we could end up involved in a great discourse that 's actually productive.Maybe we could all learn something. I have zero interest in disrupting EV/M/DLM or anything.I'm not even convinced that M's insincere.I'm here because its been a big part of my life and the whole topic fascinates me,as do so many other non-M discussions that come up here.I find this place very stimulating,interesting..etc. But what's the point of coming to this sandbox if you're not going to play fair?Why bother? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Jul 14, 1998 at 16:57:12 (EDT)
From: bftb Email: None To: bftb Subject: Staying calm arguing w premies Message: Hey biff,you meant discussion not discourse.Right ya big dummie? Biff: Right. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Jul 14, 1998 at 17:16:24 (EDT)
From: Gerry Email: None To: bftb Subject: discourse/discussion Message: I need this ten pound Webster's dictionary just to keep up with you guys. Discourse: Discussion: Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jul 15, 1998 at 08:34:40 (EDT)
From: Passing thru Email: None To: bftb Subject: Innocent answer Message: Dear bftb, I've never thought Maharaji was God and I wouldn't believe any human being who claimed it. God is supposed to be eternal and omnipresent and no human can be.And in 25 years of Knowledge, I've never heard him claim it. Quite the opposite, as his quote in the 1971 Newsweek article confirms. It just seems so stupid to argue that he said he is that I can't resist interrupting. PT Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jul 15, 1998 at 10:20:57 (EDT)
From: Rick Email: None To: Passing thru Subject: Innocent answer Message: You are just a lying sack of miserable shit. You lie to yourself and you lie to others. There is no God because if there was, he or she'd squash you like the pathetic Piss-Ant you are. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jul 15, 1998 at 11:23:41 (EDT)
From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Passing thru Subject: You LIAR! Message: Why don't you go and read some quotes from the simple man HIMSELF ? M's says he's God Don't tell me you haven't heard these, I DID, and many more.. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jul 15, 1998 at 11:25:34 (EDT)
From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: Post above for Passing thru Message: read post above! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jul 15, 1998 at 11:40:40 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: Actually, JM, I made them up Message: but he COULD have said them, don't you think? I mean, isn't that exactly the kind of thing you'd picture the little guy saying? Look, I don't know exactly who said what then but I know he said something like that. So when people started bugging me for quotes -- what? Like I'm going to have any? Maharaji ordered all that shit destroyed years ago. Besides, who'd bother keeping it? Now I'm kind of embarrassed to see you actually put them up on your site. Shit. (No, seriously, JM, I'll try to find you the citations over the next few days. They're all from WIGMJ? or a couple of Elan Vitals or Divine Times I've got.) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jul 15, 1998 at 13:13:05 (EDT)
From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Jim Subject: Those are good ones! Message: I have plenty of other quotes like these, but yours are excellent. I'll also try to find more recent ones, like the one I've already on-line (saying he's Hari), nobody will say it's old stuff. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 16, 1998 at 00:44:50 (EDT)
From: Passing thru Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: Show me the quote, JM Message: Yes, JM, I have never heard Maharaji says he was god and we're not. In fact, the only people who say it and seem to believe it are a few people posting on this site. PT Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 16, 1998 at 13:21:19 (EDT)
From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Passing thru Subject: Premies should believe M Message: M said he is God, as you can read where I told you! as you've heard and seem not to remember I did believe in what he used to say. You don't! I guess you're no premie! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Jul 14, 1998 at 16:39:15 (EDT)
From: John Email: None To: Jim Subject: Jim, you're dreaming! Message: Jim, talk about a revised view of the past, man you take the cake! You don't think we were ass holes!?!? When the word 'ass hole' was invented in 1521 in England, it was to describe the religious fanatics of the day. Trust me, the premies of the 70's qualified! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Jul 14, 1998 at 23:44:51 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: John Subject: Know your history, John Message: Jim, talk about a revised view of the past, man you take the cake! You don't think we were ass holes!?!? When the word 'ass hole' was invented in 1521 in England, it was to describe the religious fanatics of the day. Trust me, the premies of the 70's qualified! John, You actually buy that Anglican whitewash? The word 'asshole' has a much deeper derivation than that. Sometime in the early 30s, an American archaeologist, Gordon Gotago, ruined by his father's and uncle's losses in the New York stock market debacle, found himself stranded in eastern Turkey. Cornell University had run out of funds for his expedition and the family, who he'd counted on to subsidize his previous forays, could help with nothing. Wandering the streets of Ankarra, at one point delerious and facing starvation, Gotago stumbled into a shop for a touch of respite from the harsh Meditteranean sun. He spoke no Turkish as his fever had robbed him of the few words he'd picked up those last three months and his last colleague to go home stateside had neatly lifted his translation guide and simply took off. Gotatgo stared at the shop owner and his young son, stumbled forward briefly and crashed face forward. I'll explain more later....got to go to a movie. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jul 15, 1998 at 13:29:10 (EDT)
From: John Email: None To: Jim Subject: Know your history, John Message: Yeah, but I'm talking about actual documentation. My understanding is that the first documented use of the word ass hole was by Sir Walter Raleigh in the journals he wrote while awaiting execution in the tower of london. Obviously a nice descriptive term like ass hole has probably been around since day one. In fact, now that I think of it, I took a philosophy course in college from a professor who taught a bizarre but interesting interpretation of the Adam and Eve in the garden story. I remember her mentioning that when Eve told the serpent that God told them not to eat the fruit of this tree, the serpent very bluntly told Eve that God was an 'ass hole'. And when you think about it, I think the serpent was right! Only an ass hole would make a rule just for the sake of making a rule. Similarly, in the 70's we were given all kinds of rules to follow that later we found were totally unnecessary. Which means that the guru who gave us those rules to follow was and still is an ass hole. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jul 15, 1998 at 14:08:04 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: John Subject: Know your history, John Message: John, was that school a Jesuit college by any chance? Had it ever been? Do they even hire Jesuits or former Jesuits for that matter? See, like I was about to tell you yesterday before the other fantasy world called was this desparate American proffesor, befriended by this shopkeeper, Cracoshi, and his son, ended up touring eastern Turkey with them as they searched for Cracoshi's daughter (taken in marraige but never paid for). In a small village, Morik, they found the thief and collected the money owing. Some payment was in the form of old family heirlooms including a bowl that Gotago freaked over. It must have been eight or nine hundred years old! It was extremely thin and fragile, a dusty copper red which Gotago knew to be in keeping with the 10th Century color motif employed throughout that part of the remnants of the Holy Roman Empire. As he bent to pick it up, Cracoshi's daughter stumbled over him. She'd been running around the house chasing her brother who, remember, she hadn't seen for almost a year. (They'd been very close. She was, after all, only a year older than him. I think he was 11). Gotago fell into the pot and the brother yelled at his sister 'ascholluch!'. At least that's what it sounded like. Gotago, who's Turkish was really picking up, largely because he always asked, turned to Cracoshi who'd just come into the room. His look must have asked for him because Cracoshi said, 'Deruma el a mullaca ne ron namalahan asshole' ('That word's been in my family for years. It means 'asshole'). When he got back to the states, Gotago looked it up and sure enough, 'ascholluch' was an old Turkish word for 'mean-spirited and ineffectual'. The dictionary attributed its origin to the Sumerian 'assuo' which meant 'bad tipper'. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Jul 14, 1998 at 14:29:03 (EDT)
From: Gail C. MacDougall Email: freedom@gtn. net To: Everyone Subject: WHAT DO YOU HAVE TO HIDE, MJ? Message: What are you hiding, MJ? Why do you need other people, like Mel Bourne who can't even post its name, to defend you? You have lied to us and extracted our cash, our time, and our money. I saw through you in 1974 right after my knowledge session. I left ranting and raving about the fraud. However, Anne Johnston (not her fault) softly and gently convinced me that it was just Mr. Mind. Relax. Stay a while. (The brainwashing is not complete). I tore up your pictures and denounced you and the trip in 1978. Then the ashram premies came to visit and softly worked me. They even gave me a free ticket to Tuscon to kiss your lotus feet and listen to your brainwash. You know, 'You're in the pit and the vultures are swooping in for the third time. You shed a few tears and then see someone's feet there. He looks at you and says, 'Let's go.' AH YES, MY IMAGINARY FRIEND. YOU DEFINITELY WILL HAVE TO TAKE ME KICKING AND SCREAMING BECAUSE I AM NEVER GOING BACK. YOU ARE EVIL. JUST AS YOU SLOWLY INDOCTRINATE PEOPLE ONE BY ONE, WE SHALL BE HERE ON THE NET AND IN PERSON TO HELP PEOPLE OUT. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Jul 14, 1998 at 15:32:07 (EDT)
From: x Email: x2000@goplay.com To: Gail C. MacDougall Subject: WHAT DO YOU HAVE TO HIDE, MJ? Message: Maharaji is a greedy nightmare. I would hate to be him. He is beyond moral bankruptcy. He is a power tripping, control freak. He is also a con man and a cut rate (at best) 'spiritual leader', how embarassing. There is no honor involved in any aspect of his operation. He may well be wealthy, but he has nothing to be proud of. I'm sure he is privately sickened by the no self esteem, grovelling of his devotees, but he needs them, so he can slowly drain them of their finances and personalities, just like a parasite. Woe to those disturbed enough to fall into his web. Maharaji, don't you have enough money yet, Let go of your insane greed and let your premies free. Admit your a fraud. Do what you can to REDEEM yourself, For once in your life do the right thing, please! x Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Jul 14, 1998 at 12:29:43 (EDT)
From: Sir David Email: David.Studio57@btinternt.com To: Everyone Subject: Is this a cult or what? Message: Red Heart wrote: 'if you were in my community and i saw you posting ill will towards Maharaji on this forum, the most pleasant way i could act toward you is to not speak to you at all.' Funny you should write that. Premies don't want to know me any more. But then I consider that if premies don't want to know me because I don't agree with their view of Maharaji; well such people were not worth knowing in the first place. I would call them childish and insincere. You know - not talking to you 'cos you don't like Maharaji and said bad things about him. Naa naa, naa naaa naaa. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Jul 14, 1998 at 12:42:44 (EDT)
From: red heart Email: None To: Sir David Subject: when people are hurtful Message: David, we're all just human. If you are hurtful toward my child or anyone else I love, including Maharaji, I feel hurt and don't want to talk to you. Oh, that must mean I am a mindless cult member, what? Gimme a break. I heard a rumor that turned out not to be true that someone in my community had become anti-Maharaji. I really cared about her, and she was my friend. I felt so sad that I found it hard to talk to her, but I did, just enough to find out it was a false rumor. But I can remember the pain I felt when I thought she was feeling hateful toward M or premies. It's just being human. But I guess you don't go for that simple natural feeling stuff, huh? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Jul 14, 1998 at 12:52:58 (EDT)
From: Selena Email: None To: red heart Subject: when people are hurtful Message: It's just being human. But I guess you don't go for that simple natural feeling stuff, huh? It's not his fault. He hasn't been the same since he opened that refridgerator door and saw the cheese. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Jul 14, 1998 at 12:55:05 (EDT)
From: Gerry Email: None To: red heart Subject: when gurus are liars Message: Red, You found your ''shift'' key! See change happens! Oh, that must mean I am a mindless cult member, what? What what? Of course you are. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Jul 14, 1998 at 14:14:49 (EDT)
From: Sir David Email: David.Studio57@btinternet.com To: red heart Subject: Wrong again O Red One Message: No you're wrong. When I lived in the ashram I was a staunch Maharaji warrior and when I went to work 'in the world' to pay for the ashram and M's luxury goods, I often encountered people who HATED the Maharaji trip. However, I didn't ignore these people and instead would talk about other things with them. That's simple, basic human decency. You're in a cult when you start treating people who are against the cult like lower class citizens. But you can't see what you're doing. You're too enmeshed in it. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Jul 14, 1998 at 14:33:28 (EDT)
From: Selena Email: None To: Sir David Subject: Wrong again O Red One Message: Hi Sir Brie I hope you know I was joking about the cheese. There is just something about this red person that makes me want to be irreverent! I saw a premiev for Red Heels Diaries the other night. It looked like it's about soft porn and boring. selen* .... checking on last time bye now! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Jul 14, 1998 at 14:47:55 (EDT)
From: Knight of Round Cheese Email: David.Studio57@btinternet.com To: Selena Subject: A cheesy grin Message: You were right. That cheese did it for me. I have now devoted my whole life to the furtherance and deliverance of cheese. Cheese is wonderful! I like mature Irish or Canadian cheddar myself or Farmhouse cheddar but I do love a bit of Brie or Camembert too. Cheese is unconditional and it's always there when you need it. And it never lets you down. But you mustn't go Selen/a/e/i/o/u because you're needed here both the stroppy cowgirl and the new new-age Selene. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Jul 14, 1998 at 14:52:24 (EDT)
From: Selenie Email: None To: Knight of Round Cheese Subject: A cheesy grin Message: Just meant I had to go for now. I am getting my head examined. Pretty sure it's 'only' migraines. But you never know, there may be an explanation after all, for my defecting. Insanity due to a brain tumor? I love cheese too btw, I lost a lot of weight once on a low carb diet and that's when my attachment to cheese began. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Jul 14, 1998 at 21:29:04 (EDT)
From: Cheeseperson Email: David.Studio57@btinternet.com To: Selenie Subject: A cheesy grin Message: Well I hope they can throw some light on your head problem. You have mentioned that you don't sleep too well and that can be the cause of migrains or bad headaches. Alternatively you could be allergic to something or chemically sensitive to something. But if it is lack of sleep which is causing the headaches then you may be suffering from stress too, which won't help. A bit like a vicious circle that. Stress causes insomnia which causes more stress etc. I know one or two simple remedies for insomnia and I'll let you have them if you're interested. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Jul 14, 1998 at 19:45:15 (EDT)
From: TD Email: None To: Knight of Round Cheese Subject: Where's the Cheese? Message: Oh gallant Knight, Can you direct me to your original Cheese Story. I haven't found it yet in my search in the archives, and so I can't follow all the curdled references!! This Cheese Story has become my Holy Grail! Regards, TD Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Jul 14, 1998 at 21:40:46 (EDT)
From: A Knight's Cheddar Email: David.Studio57@btinternet.com To: TD Subject: Where's the Cheese? Message: I salute you in your holy quest O brave and illustious one. For somewhere, hidden in the darkest archives is a post titled 'The big cheese' which legend has it, did cause a guffawing and a rib tickling across the whole of cyber space. Many have ridden forth upon the quest to find this cheesy anecdote but alas and alack, none have found it amongst the deepest forests of posts. Fear not O brave heart, for it is surely there, hidden like slice of English cheddar amongst the leaves and branches of this green and pleasant cyber land. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Jul 14, 1998 at 21:54:48 (EDT)
From: TD Email: None To: A Knight's Cheddar Subject: Where's the Cheese? Message: My Esteemed Lord, What a noble task you have bequeathed to me. I hope I am worthy to continue my quest back through the eons of archives. But I am of strong megabyte and stout of mouse-hand, so I fear that I shall go forth and come back with the vanquished cheese-story. Wish me God-speed (and turbo) my Lord, A Humble Crumb off your Cheesy Platter, TD PS. Merlin has informed me he is now only of service to the LOTU! Oh, what's to become of the City of Camembert?? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Jul 14, 1998 at 22:10:10 (EDT)
From: Carol Email: None To: A Knight's Cheddar Subject: Max(?)and Grommet Message: Have you seen the really cool cartoon/claymation short movies about Max and Grommet? Is that the right name??? Anyway the man and his dog live together in what looks like England and have adventures. The man LOVES cheese and in one film, goes to the moon in a rocket to get it. Carol Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Jul 14, 1998 at 23:20:29 (EDT)
From: Mickey the Pharisee Email: None To: Carol Subject: Max(?)and Grommet Message: Hi Carol, You are thinking of Wallace and Grommet. My daughter owns three of their videos. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Jul 14, 1998 at 21:15:38 (EDT)
From: Judex Email: None To: Sir David Subject: Cold Comfort Farm Message: Dear Sir David I am working in a school which reminds me of the way you spoke of going out to pay for M's comforts and luxuries. The staff at the school are under paid, under heated and badly treated! Eg Ignored, lied to, blamed, the usual. The 'chief' as he calls himself came in today for a visit (ex Cranbrook man - wherever that is. I noticed his bright silk scarf and had already 'seen' the dark blue jag. 'Oh, it's so lovely to see you' he said totally insincerely. (or words to that effect. I must listen more carefully to the dialogue) Anyway, I felt like saying, you old Magician. He doesn't even have anything to do with the school on a daily basis but won't let them change the colour of the telephone message pads. We struggle and slave with the crap system we have been given to support us, while he swans around the world. HE reminds me of the magician in C.S. Lewis books, actually. Anyway, scenario sound vaguely familiar? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Jul 14, 1998 at 13:52:13 (EDT)
From: Victoria Email: None To: Sir David Subject: The more things change... Message: the more they stay the same. Red Heart wrote: 'if you were in my community and i saw you posting ill will towards Maharaji on this forum, the most pleasant way i could act toward you is to not speak to you at all.' It was 20 years ago and I was sitting on the Denver city bus, tears streaming down my face...it reminded me of Arlo Guthrie's thing about the Group W bench...'They all moved away from me on the bench...' There I was -- in my mind -- and none of my brothers or sisters on the bus wanted to talk to me. No JSCA's, no nothing. I didn't care, though. I didn't want to be responsible for putting some blissful premies in their minds. I didn't have anything bad to say about Maharaji, I just wanted to go to Rome to see him and kiss his feet. I didn't have any money. I didn't have anything to sell and I didn't want to sell my body. Then there was that time I was having all the weird visions and pre-cognitive dreams and telepathy and oobe's. I just wanted to talk to someone to hel Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Jul 14, 1998 at 21:23:08 (EDT)
From: Judex Email: None To: Victoria Subject: to Victoria Message: Victoria your post was cut off. I was relating to it. Do you want to finish what you were saying? I have had/am having slightly similar experiences. What is happening to me now is quite grounded but I am interested in how connections to higher channels or whatever can open doorways in the mind/consciousnes. Regards to you! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Jul 14, 1998 at 22:01:16 (EDT)
From: Sir David Email: David.Studio57@btinternet.com To: Victoria Subject: to Victoria Message: Victoria; not only was your post cut off but the thread was corrupted and I couldn't post a reply. Perhaps this will be more successful. I had a similar experience once when I broke down in a flood of tears and strong emotion in an ashram while they were singing arti. I believed then that Maharaji was God incarnate and I felt overwhelmed in my need to be with him. As I knelt on the floor, weeping buckets I remember looking up and seeing a look of absolute disgust on the face of one of the super premies who was in the ashram. I remember thinking that there was something very, very wrong happening here. What was wrong? I was stuck in a cult and my natural need and desire to know God had been hoodwinked by a fake Lord. I had been led to believe all manner of crazy things in my sincere desire to know God and the truth. This is what happened to many people, especially some who post here. Please post again. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Jul 14, 1998 at 22:45:39 (EDT)
From: Judex Email: None To: Sir David Subject: to David Message: David if I had wept all my tears after my last darshan I feel i would have drowned the whole world with my tears. Maybe I could have broken the drought in Queensland. I wish just once I could let it all go without worrying that others are being bothered by the intensity of my feelings. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Jul 14, 1998 at 22:49:21 (EDT)
From: Victoria Email: None To: Judex & Sir David Subject: The more things change...more Message: oops, I didn't know my post was cut off. I was just remembering when I was having all the weird visions and pre-cognitive dreams and telepathy and oobe's. I just wanted to talk to someone to help me understand what was happening. I was frightened. I remember what they said to me just before they stopped talking to me...'If if feels good it is Maharaji. If it feels bad it is your mind.' You know, I talked with premies and also with an initiator (I forget who, right now, but it will come to me). This kind of simplistic reasoning didn't sit well with me. I just felt that I was VERY alone on a weird trip that nobody really understood. Victoria Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Jul 14, 1998 at 22:59:01 (EDT)
From: Judex Email: None To: Victoria Subject: to Victoria Message: When I was having a weird time during a 'breakdown' whatever you call it I went to a very nice doctor. He was kind and delightful and serious as well. One day I imagined I was sitting on a very high mountain in Tibet with him and another doctor. We were just all three sitting there, dangling our legs and giggling. It was really good! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Jul 14, 1998 at 23:25:14 (EDT)
From: Victoria Email: None To: Judex Subject: Rich Neal Message: It was Rich Neal I talked with...too blissed out to really address the issue. Since then I've learned that other disciplines deal with these kinds of things that result from meditation and that kind of open-ness. They say to disregard those things. Other people get stuck there -- witness the myriads at the next psychic fair. The weird thing for me was that I didn't really believe in all that sort of thing, so it was quite difficult to deal with...having to believe it since it happened to me. Wouldn't want to go to a doctor about it...don't trust them. Victoria Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Jul 14, 1998 at 23:53:38 (EDT)
From: Judex Email: None To: Victoria Subject: to Victoria Message: For me at that time he wasn't really a doctor...he was a travel guide! But yes I had to be led by the hand to go to see him. And before I made the commitment to see him I also had seen Maharaji for the first time. I actually ran up to him and touched his hand. I must have looked like a complete nut case but he didn't take his hand away from me. He had his hand held out like an invitation and he let me touch him. I did it because I wanted to make sure he was human. He was. Cool hand. Not sweaty. Then I thought M helped me to go to this doctor. Because normally I never would have gone to a psychiatrist. But in my poor heart I believed that M would want me to have the very best help available - because he really loved me. I felt that right from the start with Maharaji. I needed to feel that I was loved. He fulfilled that need for me. It turned out to be the best thing I ever did; and exactly what I needed. Now look at me! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jul 15, 1998 at 01:17:44 (EDT)
From: Victoria Email: None To: Judex Subject: the doctor is in Message: Hey Judex, sounds like you got a good one. A good, affordable shrink is hard to find, huh? I guess I'm one of the gullible ones they were talking about in the thread above, because after I graduated from college and could no longer afford the university-provided free PhD sweet doctor with the lime green pants who said there was nothing wrong with me...I ended up with a sliding scale MSW who convinced me of the latest craze -- that probably I had been molested when I was a kid but just couldn't remember it. Gullible's Troubles, the story of my life... Victoria Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jul 15, 1998 at 07:37:11 (EDT)
From: Judex Email: None To: Victoria Subject: the doctor is in Message: Yes Victoria we have assisted medical care in this country. I was lucky (and his fees we disputed about every week for the whole time I saw him - even though I wasn't paying for most of them. I still wanted to argue about it - I was furious about it!. He charged about $150 an hour which I thought was outrageous. But my god, he was worth it.) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jul 15, 1998 at 07:51:55 (EDT)
From: Judex Email: None To: Victoria Subject: the doctor is in - 2 Message: Dear Victoria I feel I have been a bit flippant about this. Yet I'm trying not to be too serious these days! See, I can take advice, Forum friends! Well, the whole point is whether you really need that kind of help or not, for a start, I think. There are many mystical experiences we can have which do not mean we are ill. As you say you went through those experiences, even though you felt alone. And like birth, we feel all alone at those times. I'm sure all will be well for you health wise, and if it's not then money or no money the help you need will be available. Just like you found the Forum. Try sharing and letting out whatever bothers you to the extent you feel safe and comfortable here, especially with people you get to know and like. All will be well! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jul 15, 1998 at 12:14:10 (EDT)
From: Victoria Email: None To: Judex Subject: the doctor is in - 2 Message: Thanks Judex, I feel really comfortable here. There is only one premie that I still keep in contact with over the years, and we've been completely honest with each other and agree to disagree. I love this site and am so happy to find other people with whom to discuss the whole dlm/mj experience. When I left, 20 years ago, I was on my own. Went back to live with my mom and went to college. Majored in English and minored in Philosophy & Religious Studies. Took a lot of Sociology courses also, had this great professor who specialized in deviance and so we talked a lot about the cult experience...even did a report on it for my deviant behavior class. But nothing beats being able to, in a sense, validate my experiences, by discussing them with people who have been there. Keep on keeping on! =) Victoria Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jul 15, 1998 at 12:42:39 (EDT)
From: Gerry Email: None To: Victoria and Judex Subject: the doctor is in - 2 Message: you guys might like to take a look at this : No, you're not crazy Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jul 15, 1998 at 14:14:16 (EDT)
From: Gerry Email: None To: All Subject: Bobby made me do it Message: I should have added that Bobby gave me the above link. Thanks Bobby. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jul 15, 1998 at 16:53:40 (EDT)
From: Bobby Email: None To: Gerry Subject: Bobby made me do it Message: Hey you guys, that's one of my websites! I work for PMHCA. Pennsylvania Mental Health Consumer Association and this link is part of the website I maintain. I'll be updating the webpage considerably within the next few weeks. As far as spiritual emergence goes, that's a perspective I've been into for many years. The best perspective I've seen to explain certain powerful altered states of awareness. I have a whole section called Spiritual Crisis on my Sacred Transformations page. You might be interested in some of the stories up on that page. Or you might have one of your own. I love these kinds of stories and encourage people to share their own. Spiritual Crisis Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jul 15, 1998 at 14:22:24 (EDT)
From: Victoria Email: None To: Gerry Subject: the doctor is in - 2 Message: Oh, yes, this is very interesting stuff. Thanks, Gerry. --Victoria p.s. The internet really is a chance at salvation, huh? It's so easy, you don't have to believe anything, you can follow your own religion and dietary preferences, just point and click and there it is...KNOWLEDGE! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jul 15, 1998 at 16:22:33 (EDT)
From: Judex Email: None To: Gerry Subject: the doctor is in - 2 Message: Thank you so much Gerry Return to Index -:- Top of Index |