Ex-Premie.Org |
Forum III Archive # 19 | |
From: Jul 19, 1998 |
To: Aug 1, 1998 |
Page: 4 Of: 5 |
Brutis -:- The Obvious -:- Thurs, Jul 23, 1998 at 01:53:28 (EDT) __Mickey the Pharisee -:- The Obvious -:- Thurs, Jul 23, 1998 at 02:06:06 (EDT) __Runamok -:- Raja/Kriya/Nad -:- Thurs, Jul 23, 1998 at 02:59:42 (EDT) ____Keith -:- different strokes -:- Thurs, Jul 23, 1998 at 04:30:07 (EDT) ____Robyn -:- Raja/Kriya/Nad -:- Fri, Jul 24, 1998 at 13:46:53 (EDT) __Selena -:- The Obvious -:- Thurs, Jul 23, 1998 at 12:14:20 (EDT) __VP -:- You have your answer -:- Thurs, Jul 23, 1998 at 13:56:51 (EDT) ____Gerry -:- You have your answer -:- Thurs, Jul 23, 1998 at 15:11:44 (EDT) ______PaulR -:- You have your answer -:- Thurs, Jul 23, 1998 at 15:36:08 (EDT) ____Katie -:- You have your answer -:- Thurs, Jul 23, 1998 at 16:14:47 (EDT) ______nigel -:- You have your answer -:- Fri, Jul 24, 1998 at 01:46:21 (EDT) __Why not stay a -:- Free Man? -:- Fri, Jul 24, 1998 at 02:47:09 (EDT) __Lg -:- The Obvious -:- Fri, Jul 24, 1998 at 08:39:54 (EDT) __CD -:- judge for yourself -:- Fri, Jul 24, 1998 at 14:34:45 (EDT) ____VP -:- My take on CD's comments -:- Fri, Jul 24, 1998 at 15:20:20 (EDT) ______Mike -:- My take on CD's comments -:- Fri, Jul 24, 1998 at 16:31:29 (EDT) ________VP -:- Get rid of the pedestal -:- Mon, Jul 27, 1998 at 15:55:06 (EDT) __________CD -:- Get rid of the pedestal -:- Wed, Jul 29, 1998 at 12:29:09 (EDT) ____________VP -:- Why do you care, CD? -:- Wed, Jul 29, 1998 at 13:25:34 (EDT) ______________VP -:- Why do you care, CD? -:- Wed, Jul 29, 1998 at 13:28:49 (EDT) ____________Jim -:- That's gaggable, Chris -:- Wed, Jul 29, 1998 at 15:52:57 (EDT) ______Gail -:- Drop Oliveoil and run -:- Sat, Jul 25, 1998 at 01:40:56 (EDT) ____Rick -:- judge for yourself -:- Fri, Jul 24, 1998 at 15:43:34 (EDT) ____nigel -:- understatement of the milleniu -:- Fri, Jul 24, 1998 at 18:42:19 (EDT) ______cp -:- take it and run -:- Fri, Jul 24, 1998 at 19:05:22 (EDT) ________Gerry -:- CP, you moron, -:- Mon, Jul 27, 1998 at 01:14:23 (EDT) ______Gail -:- understatement of the milleniu -:- Sat, Jul 25, 1998 at 01:48:01 (EDT) ______CD -:- understatements -:- Sat, Jul 25, 1998 at 15:16:03 (EDT) Mickey the Pharisee -:- Community? -:- Thurs, Jul 23, 1998 at 01:44:44 (EDT) __CP -:- Community? -:- Thurs, Jul 23, 1998 at 02:21:23 (EDT) ____Mickey the Pharisee -:- Community? -:- Thurs, Jul 23, 1998 at 02:36:53 (EDT) __Katie -:- Community? -:- Thurs, Jul 23, 1998 at 10:09:33 (EDT) ____CD -:- Community? -:- Fri, Jul 24, 1998 at 14:48:38 (EDT) ______Katie -:- Community? -:- Fri, Jul 24, 1998 at 16:16:44 (EDT) ________Selena -:- Community? -:- Fri, Jul 24, 1998 at 16:17:21 (EDT) ______Mickey the P -:- Community? -:- Fri, Jul 24, 1998 at 16:37:20 (EDT) ________CD -:- Community? -:- Sat, Jul 25, 1998 at 21:58:11 (EDT) __________Bobby -:- Community? -:- Sat, Jul 25, 1998 at 22:15:46 (EDT) __________Mickey the Pharisee -:- Community? -:- Sun, Jul 26, 1998 at 00:57:37 (EDT) __Gail -:- Community? -:- Fri, Jul 24, 1998 at 00:45:18 (EDT) __Selena -:- Community? -:- Fri, Jul 24, 1998 at 14:02:02 (EDT) __Gail -:- You are a priest? -:- Sat, Jul 25, 1998 at 02:12:19 (EDT) ____Katie -:- the spiritual rip-off -:- Sat, Jul 25, 1998 at 09:28:38 (EDT) ______Carol -:- the spiritual rip-off -:- Sat, Jul 25, 1998 at 14:44:27 (EDT) ____Mickey the Pharisee -:- You are a priest? -:- Sat, Jul 25, 1998 at 12:22:57 (EDT) ______congrats -:- You are a pastor -:- Sat, Jul 25, 1998 at 12:43:39 (EDT) ________Mickey the Pharisee -:- You are a pastor -:- Sat, Jul 25, 1998 at 19:43:51 (EDT) __G's mom -:- your journey -:- Sat, Jul 25, 1998 at 12:31:04 (EDT) ____Mickey the Pharisee -:- your journey (PT 1) -:- Sat, Jul 25, 1998 at 17:42:05 (EDT) ______Mickey the P -:- your journey (PT 2) -:- Sat, Jul 25, 1998 at 17:49:44 (EDT) ________Jerry -:- your journey (PT 2) -:- Sat, Jul 25, 1998 at 18:43:40 (EDT) __________Mickey the Pharisee -:- your journey (PT 2) -:- Sat, Jul 25, 1998 at 19:41:27 (EDT) ____________Bobby -:- your journey (PT 2) -:- Sat, Jul 25, 1998 at 20:24:45 (EDT) ____________Jerry -:- your journey (PT 2) -:- Sat, Jul 25, 1998 at 21:30:25 (EDT) ________g's mom -:- your journey (PT 2) -:- Sat, Jul 25, 1998 at 19:14:50 (EDT) ____nigel -:- your journey -:- Sun, Jul 26, 1998 at 03:51:24 (EDT) ______G's mom -:- atheists -:- Sun, Jul 26, 1998 at 12:47:28 (EDT) ________web.*>* -:- atheists -:- Mon, Jul 27, 1998 at 00:56:03 (EDT) Carol -:- Food for thought.. -:- Wed, Jul 22, 1998 at 17:19:47 (EDT) __Nigel -:- Food for thought.. -:- Wed, Jul 22, 1998 at 22:02:47 (EDT) ____Selena -:- Food for thought.. -:- Thurs, Jul 23, 1998 at 21:21:56 (EDT) ______carol -:- Food for thought.. -:- Thurs, Jul 23, 1998 at 22:24:44 (EDT) ________Selena -:- Food for thought.. -:- Thurs, Jul 23, 1998 at 22:49:27 (EDT) __________cp -:- Food for thought.. -:- Fri, Jul 24, 1998 at 03:12:39 (EDT) ____________Selena -:- Food for thought.. -:- Fri, Jul 24, 1998 at 13:39:45 (EDT) ______________Carol -:- Food for thought.. -:- Fri, Jul 24, 1998 at 13:51:15 (EDT) ________________Selena -:- hugs -:- Sat, Jul 25, 1998 at 00:14:55 (EDT) __________________Carol -:- hugs -:- Sat, Jul 25, 1998 at 14:17:03 (EDT) ____________________Selena -:- hugs & modern medicine -:- Sat, Jul 25, 1998 at 17:29:53 (EDT) __will*<* -:- Food for thought.. -:- Fri, Jul 24, 1998 at 03:28:16 (EDT) ____carol -:- Thankyou for wishes! -:- Fri, Jul 24, 1998 at 13:46:28 (EDT) __Jerry -:- You'll get through -:- Fri, Jul 24, 1998 at 08:58:36 (EDT) ____Gail -:- You'll get through -:- Sat, Jul 25, 1998 at 02:03:00 (EDT) ______carol -:- You'll get through -:- Sat, Jul 25, 1998 at 14:26:20 (EDT) PAM -:- Lose the blueprints -:- Wed, Jul 22, 1998 at 15:39:50 (EDT) __Mike -:- Lose the blueprints -:- Wed, Jul 22, 1998 at 16:03:58 (EDT) __John -:- Lose the blueprints -:- Wed, Jul 22, 1998 at 16:26:27 (EDT) ____CP -:- Lose the blueprints -:- Wed, Jul 22, 1998 at 17:04:01 (EDT) ______Gerry -:- Lose the blueprints -:- Wed, Jul 22, 1998 at 18:08:12 (EDT) __Rick -:- Lose the blueprints -:- Wed, Jul 22, 1998 at 20:02:14 (EDT) ____cp -:- lose the blueprints -:- Wed, Jul 22, 1998 at 20:46:53 (EDT) ____pam -:- Have you read any posts? -:- Thurs, Jul 23, 1998 at 00:15:17 (EDT) ______Rick -:- Have you read any posts? -:- Thurs, Jul 23, 1998 at 01:19:29 (EDT) ________pam -:- Answering Rick's questions -:- Thurs, Jul 23, 1998 at 01:37:51 (EDT) __________Katie -:- To Pam -:- Thurs, Jul 23, 1998 at 09:46:31 (EDT) __________Selena -:- Answering Rick's questions -:- Thurs, Jul 23, 1998 at 12:31:41 (EDT) ____________Mike -:- Answering Rick's questions -:- Thurs, Jul 23, 1998 at 13:53:09 (EDT) ______________Selena -:- M available NOT -:- Thurs, Jul 23, 1998 at 16:02:49 (EDT) ________________Mike -:- M available NOT -:- Thurs, Jul 23, 1998 at 17:01:12 (EDT) __________Carol -:- Answering Rick's questions -:- Fri, Jul 24, 1998 at 14:09:51 (EDT) ________CP -:- Pam - wait -:- Thurs, Jul 23, 1998 at 02:12:35 (EDT) __________Keith -:- Pam - wait -:- Thurs, Jul 23, 1998 at 05:12:00 (EDT) ________Gerry -:- Rick you blockhead -:- Thurs, Jul 23, 1998 at 10:01:49 (EDT) __________Rick -:- Rick you blockhead -:- Thurs, Jul 23, 1998 at 10:53:14 (EDT) ____________Selena -:- Rick you blockhead -:- Thurs, Jul 23, 1998 at 12:35:18 (EDT) ____________Gerry -:- Rick, you blockhead -:- Thurs, Jul 23, 1998 at 13:00:18 (EDT) ______________Katie -:- Pinhead and Blockhead -:- Thurs, Jul 23, 1998 at 13:39:21 (EDT) ________________Rick -:- Pinhead and Blockhead -:- Thurs, Jul 23, 1998 at 14:53:40 (EDT) __________________Gerry -:- Pinhead and Blockhead -:- Thurs, Jul 23, 1998 at 15:19:56 (EDT) ____________________Selena -:- Pinhead and Blockhead -:- Thurs, Jul 23, 1998 at 15:32:42 (EDT) ______________________carol -:- Pinhead and Blockhead -:- Fri, Jul 24, 1998 at 14:29:31 (EDT) ____________________Jerry -:- Pinhead and Blockhead -:- Thurs, Jul 23, 1998 at 16:23:06 (EDT) __________________Katie -:- To the Blockhead -:- Thurs, Jul 23, 1998 at 16:11:23 (EDT) ____________________Carol -:- To the Blockhead -:- Fri, Jul 24, 1998 at 19:36:39 (EDT) ______________________Katie -:- To the Blockhead -:- Sat, Jul 25, 1998 at 09:46:32 (EDT) __________________Carol -:- Pinhead and Blockhead -:- Fri, Jul 24, 1998 at 14:26:14 (EDT) ____________________Rick -:- Pinhead and Blockhead -:- Fri, Jul 24, 1998 at 15:23:40 (EDT) ________________Gerry -:- Pinhead and Blockhead -:- Thurs, Jul 23, 1998 at 14:59:35 (EDT) __________________Katie -:- to Pinhead -:- Thurs, Jul 23, 1998 at 16:29:53 (EDT) ____________________Gerry -:- to Pinhead -:- Thurs, Jul 23, 1998 at 16:46:05 (EDT) ______________________Katie -:- to Pinhead - off topic -:- Thurs, Jul 23, 1998 at 17:14:11 (EDT) ____________bb -:- Rick -:- Thurs, Jul 23, 1998 at 18:40:50 (EDT) ______________Rick -:- Rick -:- Thurs, Jul 23, 1998 at 19:09:10 (EDT) ________________Keith -:- my say -:- Thurs, Jul 23, 1998 at 21:20:13 (EDT) __________________Selena -:- my say -:- Thurs, Jul 23, 1998 at 21:31:38 (EDT) __________________Rick -:- my say -:- Thurs, Jul 23, 1998 at 21:53:16 (EDT) ____________________Keith -:- my say -:- Thurs, Jul 23, 1998 at 22:26:43 (EDT) ______________________Selena -:- my say -:- Thurs, Jul 23, 1998 at 22:43:36 (EDT) ________________________Keith -:- my say -:- Fri, Jul 24, 1998 at 05:06:49 (EDT) ____________________Jerry -:- my say -:- Fri, Jul 24, 1998 at 17:23:41 (EDT) ______________________Rick -:- my say -:- Fri, Jul 24, 1998 at 19:04:47 (EDT) ________________________Jerry -:- my say -:- Fri, Jul 24, 1998 at 21:57:47 (EDT) __________________________Rick -:- my say -:- Sat, Jul 25, 1998 at 00:48:22 (EDT) ____________________________CP -:- my say -:- Sat, Jul 25, 1998 at 02:17:16 (EDT) __________Carol -:- Be nice to girls! -:- Fri, Jul 24, 1998 at 14:19:51 (EDT) __nigel -:- what a house looks like -:- Wed, Jul 22, 1998 at 20:57:37 (EDT) ____Katie -:- what a house looks like -:- Wed, Jul 22, 1998 at 21:09:34 (EDT) ______nigel -:- what a house looks like -:- Wed, Jul 22, 1998 at 21:16:18 (EDT) ________x -:- greed.... -:- Wed, Jul 22, 1998 at 21:39:51 (EDT) __________Keith -:- Pams post -:- Thurs, Jul 23, 1998 at 00:27:42 (EDT) ____________cp -:- Pams position -:- Thurs, Jul 23, 1998 at 01:13:34 (EDT) ______________Mickey the Pharisee -:- Pams position -:- Thurs, Jul 23, 1998 at 01:31:12 (EDT) ________________cp -:- Pams position -:- Thurs, Jul 23, 1998 at 01:52:02 (EDT) __________________Mickey the Pharisee -:- Pams position -:- Thurs, Jul 23, 1998 at 02:07:33 (EDT) ______________Gerry -:- In the dog house -:- Thurs, Jul 23, 1998 at 11:15:11 (EDT) ________________Rebid Dog -:- In the dog house -:- Thurs, Jul 23, 1998 at 13:00:32 (EDT) __________________eb -:- New Moon in Leo, oops -:- Thurs, Jul 23, 1998 at 16:40:29 (EDT) ____________________Selena -:- New Moon in Leo, oops -:- Thurs, Jul 23, 1998 at 17:10:57 (EDT) ______________________Katie -:- New Moon in Leo, oops -:- Thurs, Jul 23, 1998 at 17:24:07 (EDT) ________________________Selena -:- New Moon in Leo, oops -:- Thurs, Jul 23, 1998 at 17:27:56 (EDT) __________________Gail -:- MJ SAYS NO MORE PETS!!!!! -:- Sat, Jul 25, 1998 at 01:55:17 (EDT) ____________________Katie -:- MJ SAYS NO MORE PETS!!!!! -:- Sat, Jul 25, 1998 at 10:24:50 (EDT) ______________________Gail -:- MJ SAYS NO MORE PETS!!!!! -:- Sat, Jul 25, 1998 at 11:23:49 (EDT) ________________________G's mom -:- parrots -:- Sat, Jul 25, 1998 at 12:47:06 (EDT) ________________________Katie -:- MJ SAYS NO MORE PETS!!!!! -:- Mon, Jul 27, 1998 at 10:26:43 (EDT) __G's mom -:- I don't agree but.... -:- Thurs, Jul 23, 1998 at 00:52:31 (EDT) ____Jean-Michel -:- I don't agree but.... -:- Thurs, Jul 23, 1998 at 04:41:13 (EDT) ____VP -:- Be a rhino, pam! house plans2 -:- Thurs, Jul 23, 1998 at 14:43:51 (EDT) Brian -:- Growing Pains -:- Wed, Jul 22, 1998 at 08:12:06 (EDT) __A Total Idiot -:- Growing Pains -:- Wed, Jul 22, 1998 at 09:01:30 (EDT) ____Brian -:- Growing Pains -:- Wed, Jul 22, 1998 at 10:25:19 (EDT) ______pam -:- Growing Pains -:- Wed, Jul 22, 1998 at 12:46:44 (EDT) ____Katie -:- Growing Pains -:- Wed, Jul 22, 1998 at 10:25:50 (EDT) ____Gerry -:- Growing Pains -:- Wed, Jul 22, 1998 at 11:12:53 (EDT) ______RT -:- Groaning Pain -:- Wed, Jul 22, 1998 at 12:40:49 (EDT) ________bb -:- Groaning Pain -:- Fri, Jul 24, 1998 at 02:01:01 (EDT) ____Mickey the Pharisee -:- Growing Pains -:- Wed, Jul 22, 1998 at 15:20:35 (EDT) ____Mike -:- Growing Pains -:- Wed, Jul 22, 1998 at 15:54:40 (EDT) __Carol -:- Growing Pains -:- Wed, Jul 22, 1998 at 17:28:23 (EDT) ____po'folk -:- Growing Pains -:- Wed, Jul 22, 1998 at 19:01:14 (EDT) ____PaulR -:- Growing Pains -:- Wed, Jul 22, 1998 at 21:18:08 (EDT) ______Gerry -:- Growing Pains -:- Wed, Jul 22, 1998 at 23:31:57 (EDT) ________PaulR -:- Growing Pains -:- Thurs, Jul 23, 1998 at 15:11:05 (EDT) __________Gerry -:- groin pains -:- Thurs, Jul 23, 1998 at 15:54:54 (EDT) ____________Francis W. -:- groin pains -:- Fri, Jul 24, 1998 at 10:20:59 (EDT) ______________Gerry -:- groin pains -:- Fri, Jul 24, 1998 at 10:28:13 (EDT) ________________Francis -:- groin pains -:- Fri, Jul 24, 1998 at 10:57:08 (EDT) __________________Gerry -:- groin pains -:- Fri, Jul 24, 1998 at 11:52:12 (EDT) ____________________Francis W. -:- groin pains -:- Fri, Jul 24, 1998 at 18:29:23 (EDT) __________PaulR -:- Growing Pains -:- Thurs, Jul 23, 1998 at 17:26:27 (EDT) ______Selena -:- Growing Pains -:- Thurs, Jul 23, 1998 at 12:04:14 (EDT) ________Katie -:- Growing Pains -:- Thurs, Jul 23, 1998 at 12:34:22 (EDT) __________PaulR -:- New shoes for a growing site. -:- Thurs, Jul 23, 1998 at 14:42:18 (EDT) ____________Selena -:- New shoes for a growing site. -:- Thurs, Jul 23, 1998 at 15:48:21 (EDT) ______Katie -:- Growing Pains - to PaulR -:- Thurs, Jul 23, 1998 at 16:56:18 (EDT) |
Date: Thurs, Jul 23, 1998 at 01:53:28 (EDT)
From: Brutis Email: None To: Everyone Subject: The Obvious Message: I wish I could give my E-mail address so that someone could respond to me, but do to midigating cercumstances I can not. My uncle and his wife have been involved with the Maharaji since the early seventies, in fact they are close freinds of his. Many of you fell from his graces because of his lavish life style, my uncle lives very comfortably, so he would not fall do to jealousy or frustration of finances. I recently graduated from college and became involved in my uncles business. When I went to visit him for training, he was in charge of putting on programs in his area. The rest of my family was very negative towards their dealings with the Maharaji especially my mother, who called a deprogrammer on him about ten years ago. So, I saw two of these programs and thought that the Maharaji was really down to earth. I have no need or strong desire for spiritualism in my life, but am interested in such things, The Dahli Lama, ICoC, Scientology, ect.. My uncle tells me all the time how great recieving knowledge is, but ends with, you can only drink when your thirsty..... I want to get this knowledge just to see what its like. Do you think this is advisable? I'm not a sucker, and I am very against giving money to any organization, and I am not easily led, but I have concerns. I will look for someones response in the forum. Do you think my uncle gives a lot of money to this guy? I don't like to ask him questions about the Maharaji because he almost gets defensive. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 23, 1998 at 02:06:06 (EDT)
From: Mickey the Pharisee Email: mgdbach@ziplink.net To: Brutis Subject: The Obvious Message: Welcome, Brutis! My first impression is that if your Uncle is defensive about his giving to M, he's giving too much and knows it. If you want to know about Knowledge, check out the old 'Cult Watch' site; the techniques are revealed there. There is nothing particularly special about the techniques, they are used by many groups. Check out the 'links' section of this site. Read the 'Journeys' section of this site; people speak honestly about their experiences. And read and post here often so that you may learn about Elan Vital, M, and his wackey fan club! Regards, Michael Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 23, 1998 at 02:59:42 (EDT)
From: Runamok Email: lotuspower@aol.com To: Brutis Subject: Raja/Kriya/Nad Message: If I were you I would esearch it through this site and its links. There are many similar offers from other groups and gurus. You may find a preferable situation or decide an initiation is not necessary. But honestly- it sounds to me like you need a private email account more than Rawatt's light show. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 23, 1998 at 04:30:07 (EDT)
From: Keith Email: None To: Brutis Subject: different strokes Message: Hello Brutis, As is said, different strokes for different folks. I would like to recommend Jiddu Krishnamurti as good reading material. There are a number of good sites worth surfing for. As for Knowledge , hmmm, I'd like to strip the mystique away and suggest that you seek out whatever method of inward turning works for you ....give it a go. Personally I think a teacher is far more preferable to a printed page....but who to trust? If you can receive knowledge from Maharaji and take from him only what you can naturally empathise with and disgard the rest ...then why not....but this is a very emotive topic and you will not get to many pro-Maharaji encouragements from this site. I am no longer a premie. But I'm aware of not throwing the baby out with the bath water. I have received much from Maharaji over 16 years. But I feel it's time to stand on my own feet . Plus I don't like the direction that Maharaji is taking in steering his ship...and that includes the way he is revealing the knowledge techniques. Too much authoritarianism and rigidity. I feel Maharaji's taste for inscrutability (perfectionism) is too extreme. It is looking more like a theocratic religion. That's my contribution. Good luck in your 'search and discover' mission. Regards , Keith Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jul 24, 1998 at 13:46:53 (EDT)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Runamok Subject: Raja/Kriya/Nad Message: Dear Brutis, You can learn the techniques on your own and come here for advice and with questions, many of us still meditate on those techniques. Dear Runamok, How are you? Haven't heard from you or been here to see you've 'landed', great! Wish you well. Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 23, 1998 at 12:14:20 (EDT)
From: Selena Email: None To: Brutis Subject: The Obvious Message: One time a friend of mine went through EST training (remember THAT?) Her response afterward was 'I'm glad I 'GOT IT' for one reason, it showed me I had it all along and didn't need to get it!' I thought of that when I read your post. It would almost be good for you to go through the thing just so you could see it's no big deal, just some meditation techniques. The only problem with that is, in the process you will have watched tons of videos and had lots of 'instructions' ie brainwashing. The process of receiving this so called knowledge is very structured, though premies make it look very casual and laid back. They keep track of how often you attend videos, how many introductory programs you have been to, etc. I'd be very careful you don't get sucked into the hype. We all pride oursevles on being independent thinkers but sometimes things are happening unconciously and we dn't even know it. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 23, 1998 at 13:56:51 (EDT)
From: VP Email: None To: Brutis Subject: You have your answer Message: 'I don't like to ask him questions about the Maharaji because he almost gets defensive.' I think you have answered your own question, Brutis. Family members were giving me obvious signals about the true nature of involvment with Maharaji, but I MISSED THEM BECAUSE I DIDN'T WANT TO SEE THEM! I was more interested in finding out what knowledge was all about, because it had been so built up to me. Maybe that is what is happening here, I don't know enough about your situation to judge that. I do know this, when something is so secretive and people get defensive or clam up when you ask them about it, there is something fishy going on there. An ex-instructor put the techniques on this site to demistify them. (I can't remember where it is offhand. FAQ?) I would check those out, and then check out the old site (click on What's New) as Michael suggested above so that you have two perspectives. That way you can know what Knowledge is without having to be involved in a cult that involves brainwashing and does not allow you to think for yourself (unless that is what you want, of course.) Some premies on the forum will tell you that a personal teacher is better, but I disagree. Knowing something is knowing it. I think they feel this way because having a personal teacher makes you a part of the group. They are involved with it and they like it that way. I would not. Of course, premies will tell you that you do not really 'HAVE' the knowledge because you read the techniques. They are partly right. Knowledge is the way that you are initiated into a cult where DEVOTION to a MASTER is the main objective. They do NOT tell you this upfront, though. They don't tell you until it may be too late for you. Well, you have some info that you need to make an informed decision, now. Best of luck to you, Brutis. Glad to hear from you. Sorry everyone else for sounding like a broken record, but this is what I strongly believe, VP Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 23, 1998 at 15:11:44 (EDT)
From: Gerry Email: None To: VP Subject: You have your answer Message: VP, Very well said and I don't think you need apologize for stating the obvious. It needs to be said over and over to current cult members and those thinking about joining. The ''knowledge'' experience (sans the devotional vampirism) can be had by anyone who meditates. Is it worth it? I don't thinks so but many do. BTW, my wife who has little or no new age tendencies, meditates (for lack of a better word) and has had fantastic inner experiences, right from the start. No teacher, no initiation, no cult involvement. She does it occasionally, and just for fun. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 23, 1998 at 15:36:08 (EDT)
From: PaulR Email: None To: Gerry Subject: You have your answer Message: Shit, after all that complaining and THIS! is a very civilised thread, I think I'll come back here if I may. Thanks. pr Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 23, 1998 at 16:14:47 (EDT)
From: Katie Email: None To: VP Subject: You have your answer Message: Hi VP - you don't sound like a broken record! Actually, I was HOPING you would answer this thread, because of your own experiences. You gave a better answer than I could. Thanks, Katie Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jul 24, 1998 at 01:46:21 (EDT)
From: nigel Email: nigel@redcrow.demon.co.uk To: Katie, VP Subject: You have your answer Message: Maybe better to sound like a broken record than a CD... :-) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jul 24, 1998 at 02:47:09 (EDT)
From: Why not stay a Email: None To: Brutis Subject: Free Man? Message: I looked at mant religions and so-called spiritual groups. I got ensnared in maharaji's devious lying and can say with accuracy that you should steer clear. Why do you need any group? You don't. If you want to know what the meditation world is about, you dont need to get any more involved than just feel your own breath whenever you want. We humans get dunb around the god issue. It is truly best to just have an acceptance about the bigger power and just say hello sometimes and live your life. Your own self confidence and following your own dreams and desires is much smarter than listening to the many different groups and all thier ideas of what you should do with your life. Turn a deaf ear to all of them and confidently explore your own day and do you know what I have discovered? That it doesn't matter what a person believes and uses as a idea about god. It is how open you are to the heart stuff in you that is the only thing that matters to any god or power that exists and if you try to be a person with a heart, you are doing what the god would like you to do. Beyond that, you are a free man to go have a life of your own makeing. Get near people that are religious, and you have just given up your freedom. Don't look kindly at the dali lama, the real story behind that religion is terrible. Forget the holiwood movie, that is fantasy. Scientology is the creation of a madman in the 1950's and run away when someone says something nice about it. Can you accept a friendship with the god without being ensnared by any religion? I hope so. Don't be weak. Stand up and leave a legacy of a free man. Your fellow man is going to always approach you with something to sell. Don't fall for people's sales pitches. Be friendly but keep the attempts by people to make you part of thier 'group' away. The saying goes like this, 'there is a sucker born every minute' DON'T YOU BE ONE! Will*<* Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jul 24, 1998 at 08:39:54 (EDT)
From: Lg Email: None To: Brutis Subject: The Obvious Message: Hi Brutis Many of you fell from his graces because of his lavish life style, I don't dnow what you mean by this statement. For myself, I have an excellent Federal job, and don't practice knowledge any more. I never had special treatment from M. to say that since I left the cult I fell from his grace. He never acknowledge my existence. I want to get this knowledge just to see what its like. Do you think this is advisable? A person will pursue his intence desires no mater what. The reason in this is because at certain times our hears wants to know. And some times along the way, some gets hurt real bad and the pain is such that one forget what he wanted to learn from the cult. Let me say this: NO ONE SHOULD JOIN ANYTHING IN ORDER TO BELONG. We were not born to BELONG to any religions or cults. We are born to be free and experience life as you please. If you want knowledge, receive it then RUN. There is nothing wrong with M's teaching. I learned a lot myself from them. I deprogrammed myself of the catholic believes of heaven, hell, and purgatory and other nonsense I learned from day 1. There are good books on the market on spiritual and emotional growth. I am very against giving money to any organization, Emotional pain hurts a lot more than a few thousand missing in your wallet. And the two combined is devastating to say the least. Do you think my uncle gives a lot of money to this guy? I don't like to ask him questions about the Maharaji because he almost gets defensive. Perhaps your uncle gives a little (what ever this amount may be) I wouldn't worry about that, since your uncle probably did not live in the ashram and giving it all away to m. Any organization need money to survive, and so does M's live style. No one will care if you give at first, however, after a while it is expected of you to give a little. And referring to my comment above, if the need to BELONG is there, you will feel you have to give Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jul 24, 1998 at 14:34:45 (EDT)
From: CD Email: None To: Brutis Subject: judge for yourself Message: You ultimately will make the decision for yourself on attending a Knowledge session. If what you hear from the videos and your uncle makes sense, then pursue it. Many people on this site feel that what Maharaji says in his talks is worthless. I find a lot of value and relate to what Maharaji speaks about. That is why I continue to go to programs where he speaks. I also contribute some money each month because I want to help support the effort. I am happy to help out a bit. Regards, CD webmaster@cdickey.com Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jul 24, 1998 at 15:20:20 (EDT)
From: VP Email: None To: Brutis Subject: My take on CD's comments Message: 'If what you hear from the videos and your uncle makes sense, then pursue it.'-CD I think that M says some things that make a lot of sense IN THE BEGINNING. Some of the message in those videos for aspirants isn't so bad and some of it is true. Some of it is total foolishness and a lot of it is AN OUTRIGHT LIE! Obviously, a lot of people can relate to some of the content in the early videos, or there wouldn't BE any Elan Vital. Later on is when the worst nonsense starts, in my opinion. Brutis, don't do something just because it sounds good. Heroin and unprotected sexual orgies may SOUND good, but these things have serious consequences. So does cult involvment. Think, man! 'Many people on this site feel that what Maharaji says in his talks is worthless.'-CD The idea is that this demagogy is evil and insane, not all of the ideas themselves necessarily. For example, I liked this comment he made: 'We don't have to be taught to enjoy. Thank God! If we had to be taught to enjoy, we would be in big trouble.' I believe this is true. Not because he said so, though. Just because it is true. We don't need a guru to teach us how to enjoy life. Does anyone else find that comment a bit ironic coming from M? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jul 24, 1998 at 16:31:29 (EDT)
From: Mike Email: None To: VP Subject: My take on CD's comments Message: VP: Yes, especially the 'thank g_d' part! ha ha ha. Seriously(?), in most cases all he is doing is parroting the contents of just about any 'holy book' around, from the 'bible' to the 'tao te ching.' Based on what he is saying in the previous quote, I guess that means we don't need a guru to 'enjoy' meditation, now do we!? HA... gotcha goomer!! CD: One of the biggest holds M has on premies, after the fact, is the fear motive. (e.g. 'What if he IS g_d?', 'What if I blow my chances for enlightment?', what if, what if, what if...ad nauseum). This is what makes getting out of cults so difficult. Once you 'believe' the premise, you're sunk! (Unless you're lucky enough to run into someone or something, like this web site, that holds the unrelenting, unflinching, hot-light-of-day on the subject). In this case, the premise I'm referring to is that M is somehow special (satguru, g_d, etc) and above it all, NOT the premise that there is such-a-thing as 'enlightenment.' Saying HE is the Master of K or three steps ahead of us or whatever (all patently untrue, by the way), places HIM on that pedestal. One of the purposes, as I see it, of this site is to not only knock him off of that pedestal, but destroy the pedestal, too. That way no one else can ascend to its lofty heights. As a current practioner of K, YOU would deserve to be on that pedestal more than M because YOU ACTUALLY PRACTICE. M, by his own words, DOES NOT! Therefore, I submit to you that YOU are 3 steps ahead of him and he is lagging badly! Since he does NOT practice, how is it possible for him to teach you ANYTHING about K? He can't possibly KNOW anything about it! Would you go to a Doctor that hadn't been to medical school? Would you trust a lawyer, if you were on trial for murder, that hadn't been to law school? Then why do you trust someone that doesn't 'practice' what he preaches? We've gotten rid of lowly politicians for less than he's gotten away with. Jeez, Nixon just authorized a single burglary of democratic headquarters and we almost thru him in prison (he didn't even get to steal any money and he sure-as-heck didn't say he was g_d). M, on the other hand, has bilked his followers (most of whom cannot truely afford it) of MILLIONS of dollars for his own personal aggrandizement again and again. How has he done this? Simple, by allowing (prodding) us to place him on the greater-than-thou pedestal. By allowing persistent rumors of his 'greatness' to persist without a single protest from him. When was the last time M said, 'Listen to me, premies. I AM NOT GOD, I AM NOT THE SATGURU, I'm no better that you. STOP telling the world that I'm g_d.' NEVER, that's when. Don't you think the rank-and-file premies would listen to this edict? SURE THEY WOULD and they would walk out the door, too (with their wallets and minds intact!) SO let's stop the scherade, ok? He is saying he is GOD, by the rule of silent assent. By not telling his followers the truth, DIRECTLY, HIMSELF, PERSONALLY! (And I don't mean thru initiators, mahatmas, or other spokesmen). Having said that, may I make a recommendation? LET'S GET RID OF THE DAMN PEDESTAL, hmmm? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Jul 27, 1998 at 15:55:06 (EDT)
From: VP Email: None To: Mike/CD Subject: Get rid of the pedestal Message: Wise advice, Mike. CD, I think another discussion thread of ours has gone into the inactive, but I just wanted to let you know that I HAVE figured everything out (isn't this obvious to the casual observer?) Have a good day, everyone. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jul 29, 1998 at 12:29:09 (EDT)
From: CD Email: None To: VP Subject: Get rid of the pedestal Message: >CD, I think another discussion thread of ours has gone into the inactive, but I just wanted to let you know that I HAVE figured everything out (isn't this obvious to the casual observer?) You have figured something out for sure. You still hide behind the skirt of anonymity. CD Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jul 29, 1998 at 13:25:34 (EDT)
From: VP Email: None To: CD Subject: Why do you care, CD? Message: CD, Did you bother to read my post about why I post here anonymously? Do you realize that there may just be more to my situation that meets your third eye?-g! Actually a few of the regular posters here know who I am. Just because I didn't choose to tell you or anyone else I don't know well enough or feel I can trust doesn't mean I am a total mystery. Why is it such a big deal to you who I am anyway? I am really interested to know this. VP A person isn't hidden when you know their true thoughts and feelings. The other stuff can be much ado about nothing. Don't you think Maharaji would agree? snicker. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jul 29, 1998 at 13:28:49 (EDT)
From: VP Email: None To: the editor Subject: Why do you care, CD? Message: That should have read: more to my situation THAN meets your third eye-g! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jul 29, 1998 at 15:52:57 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: CD Subject: That's gaggable, Chris Message: You still hide behind the skirt of anonymity. Chris, You are really testing the waters of hypocrisy here, aren't you? You have hidden behind your stupid happy face for two years now, afraid to really discuss anything more than to throw a few vague words, if that, at what's said and asked of you. Talk about hiding. Creep. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Jul 25, 1998 at 01:40:56 (EDT)
From: Gail Email: None To: Brutus Subject: Drop Oliveoil and run Message: If you don't, you may find yourself POPEYED and missing 24 years. I'm Popeye the seeker man, In MJ's garbage can. MJ's goop is so sticky It sticks to Chris Dickey. DO NOT BECOME MJ'S FAN. The grease that really runs this show is devotion to MJ--not meditation. My advice to you is to snuggle up to some real flesh and bones. You'll get a lot more out of it. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jul 24, 1998 at 15:43:34 (EDT)
From: Rick Email: None To: CD Subject: judge for yourself Message: Gee, CD, what a surprise! A pretend Guru for a pretend person. But you're off on one thing. You said: Many people on this site feel that what Maharaji says in his talks is worthless. It's more than that, CD. It's that many people here feel that maharaji is misleading, inconsistent, arrogant and repulsive. It's a joke to think he makes sense. Even if you've conned yourself into thinking you're having a fake experience, he still doesn't make any sense. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jul 24, 1998 at 18:42:19 (EDT)
From: nigel Email: nigel@redcrow.demon.co.uk To: CD Subject: understatement of the milleniu Message: Many people on this site feel that what Maharaji says in his talks is worthless. Leave out the 'what' and the 'says in his talks' and substitute 'know' for 'feel' and you're just about there, CD. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jul 24, 1998 at 19:05:22 (EDT)
From: cp Email: None To: brutus Subject: take it and run Message: The meditation is not exclusive to M. But he is giving it. The guilt one can feel about taking the meditaiton -and not being his devotee --is alot like the catholic guilt thing. (apologies to the Catholics reading this-it is to illustrate a point.) It is a good thing to meditate, it is not a good thing to buy the Indian trappings.You should be able to practice your own religiion or non religion or as a FREE MAN - with knowledge if you choose to. If you are clear on your intent-you should be fine. But it may get sticky with your family. it could become like a temple bar mitsvah- or a public event that you took knowledge- then you are not free from expectations and/or you mothers worry. I did'nt catch how old you are-- but I wouldnt do it in a family scene- or tell them about it if i had the choice. It is a private matter in the end. Now all these guys will disagee with me , but dont be in a hurry to make up your mind. Be guided by your inner self and if you are not sure -- dont do anything. Are you getting pressure to attend videos? Is you mother concerned that you will join up? If this is the case-- give the whole thing a pass for now- it can wait untill you are in a different town someday. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Jul 27, 1998 at 01:14:23 (EDT)
From: Gerry Email: None To: cp Subject: CP, you moron, Message: now that's just about the stupidest advice I can think of--telling the guy in effect, to go ahead and get knowledge. The meditation is not exclusive to M. But he is giving it. It ain't his to give. You can find it in any number of books or from links to this website. Unless of course, you think he has some special powers to transmit so-called spirituality to his dupes. It is a good thing to meditate, Even this is debateable. There is a lot of evidence to the contrary. All this ''going inside'' bullshit ain't all it's cracked up to be and my even be harmful psychologically. Now all these guys will disagee with me , but dont be in a hurry to make up your mind. Be guided by your inner self and if you are not sure -- dont do anything. You're damn sure right on that one, cp, you fool. I sure do disagree . '' Don't be in a hurry to make up your mind?'' Like receiving K is a wise and viable option for anyone, ever??? What about all the cult brainwash in the videos which are MANDATORY before the big event can happen? In case you didn't know, stupes, this is where they indoctrinate the suckers into cult think worship of the fat ass BM. If this is the case-- give the whole thing a pass for now- it can wait untill you are in a different town someday. Yeah, right. CP, I used to think you were a little flakey. Now I know you're a HUGE flake and you're the last one who should be giving advice to anyone. BRUTIS, IGNORE THIS IDIOT CP! KNOWLEDGE AND THE GURU ARE POISON. STAY AWAY!!! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Jul 25, 1998 at 01:48:01 (EDT)
From: Gail Email: None To: nigel Subject: understatement of the milleniu Message: HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Jul 25, 1998 at 15:16:03 (EDT)
From: CD Email: None To: nigel Subject: understatements Message: >Leave out the 'what' and the 'says in his talks' and substitute 'know' for 'feel' and you're just about there, CD. The differing opinions don't suprise me. Remember, Jim thinks Chomsky is a jerk. What is the explanation? CD Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 23, 1998 at 01:44:44 (EDT)
From: Mickey the Pharisee Email: mgdbach@ziplink.net To: Everyone Subject: Community? Message: Back in the olden days, when I was a Premie (mid '70's), we had ashrams and premie houses. There were many occasions for satsang, and I spent most of my time with Premies. I know that the ashrams were closed back in the 1980's, and I haven't heard anyone mention anything about premie houses, so I don't know if they still exist. From what I gather, people assemble to watch videos, and Festivals still happen, but is there still a Premie community? Do those of you who are Premies still gather informally, do you eat together, do you have any community? I am interested in this aspect of Premie life because, as a priest, I experience God in community, and from what I gather from the posts of newly exited premies, there isn't much community now. What's the scoop, premie boys and girls? Do you experience love, peace, and joy as a community, or is it all hidden inside? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 23, 1998 at 02:21:23 (EDT)
From: CP Email: None To: Mickey the Pharisee Subject: Community? Message: From what I can see premmies lead a odd life. The rythm of community activitiy is there- without the soul. Any social get togethers are a sad mixture of surpressed interpersonal exchange and tourtured longing for mingling. Hence, wierd sexual vibes and after hours alchohol to cope. Like robots. I didnt know you were a priest. I wonder if you are my old priest, I could have sworn he used to be in the darshan lines back then. There is something very familiar and recognizable about a person who has had their third eye opened. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 23, 1998 at 02:36:53 (EDT)
From: Mickey the Pharisee Email: None To: CP Subject: Community? Message: No, I'm not your old priest, I was ordained on December 21, 1997, in the Episcopal church. I was not a priest when I was a Premie. Thanks for your response CP! Michael Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 23, 1998 at 10:09:33 (EDT)
From: Katie Email: None To: Mickey the Pharisee Subject: Community? Message: Michael - I am not sure if you got a chance to read the video introduction scripts that Brian put on line. The scripts themselves are not all that bad (although somewhat dry), but the accompanying instructions are depressing. Premies are not supposed to make jokes, talk about their own experiences, or answer questions. Apparently they are not supposed to deviate from the script in any way. I would think it would be very hard to know people in this kind of setting, and I don't think I would have been attracted to M and K if I'd encountered them in this way. Here's the link: scripts for video introductions Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jul 24, 1998 at 14:48:38 (EDT)
From: CD Email: None To: Katie Subject: Community? Message: Instead of just reading web site hearsay, go to a program yourself and get a first hand experience of what the atmosphere is like. CD Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jul 24, 1998 at 16:16:44 (EDT)
From: Katie Email: None To: CD Subject: Community? Message: I agree Katie. I'd *LOVE* to bring you to our little gathering. It would absolutely confirm everything I have said and you are intelligent enough to see it right away. But, I think we could have more fun doing other stuff.... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jul 24, 1998 at 16:17:21 (EDT)
From: Selena Email: None To: Katie Subject: Community? Message: oops, that was from me..... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jul 24, 1998 at 16:37:20 (EDT)
From: Mickey the P Email: mgdbach@ziplink.net To: CD Subject: Community? Message: Now, Chris, we've met and talked and played guitars and drank beer; What are the chances, do you think, of me actually attending a program or going anywhere near a large group of premies? I just wanted to know how premies experience community since all the old sources (ashrams, premie houses, group satsang) have dried up. I don't want to watch TV with a bunch of premies, sheesh! Regards, Michael Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Jul 25, 1998 at 21:58:11 (EDT)
From: CD Email: None To: Mickey the P Subject: Community? Message: >Now, Chris, we've met and talked and played guitars and drank beer; You even got to meet my mom and a couple brothers. I thought we got along pretty well. My impression was that the feeling was mutual. I could be wrong. >What are the chances, do you think, of me actually attending a program or going anywhere near a large group of premies? I wouldn't bet on it. You are definitely into your current pastor role so you see no need. But you still haven't tossed out the old music. There are some good new songs to be heard. Don't know why the people at a large event would inhibit you. Most of them enjoy having a good time. Each event still has a large assortment of interesting people to meet. The main topics of the events continue to be the miracle of life, personal discovery and the fundamental common thread of being a human being. CD Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Jul 25, 1998 at 22:15:46 (EDT)
From: Bobby Email: None To: CD Subject: Community? Message: I went to a program a year ago in New York. That was the first Maharaji event I had attended in about 10 years. I loved seeing some old friends. Maharaji didn't impress me. Frankly I found his presentation boring. Honestly, that has pretty much been my experience all along -- and I lived in the ashram and premie houses throughout the seventies. I'm grateful for the meditation. I still practice the meditation. Now I practice my own flavor of Buddhist/Shamanistic spirituality. YMMV - your mileage may vary. One man's meat is another man's poison. Personally, I find capitalism more damaging to humans than Maharaji ever was. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Jul 26, 1998 at 00:57:37 (EDT)
From: Mickey the Pharisee Email: mgdbach@ziplink.net To: CD Subject: Community? Message: CD wrote: I thought we got along pretty well. My impression was that the feeling was mutual.I could be wrong.' Your perception is correct, we do get along well and the feeling is mutual. I didn't want to go on 'website hearsay' that is why I was asking premies what they do for community. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jul 24, 1998 at 00:45:18 (EDT)
From: Gail Email: None To: Mickey the Pharisee Subject: Community? Message: Some people have continued to associate with each other. Others are excluded. In the old days, everyone was welcome to pretty much everything. Now, no one is excluded from videos, but some gatherings preclude unpopular, stinky, uneducated, poor premies. It's probably a lot like the trip in any religion. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jul 24, 1998 at 14:02:02 (EDT)
From: Selena Email: None To: Mickey the Pharisee Subject: Community? Message: Hi I have posted about this before. The 'community' here is one of the things that helped me get out.It's really quite depressing. They gossip about each other and do mean things, then gather once a week to sit in front of a tv. They don't talk and then they get up and leave. A few people have stayed friends with each other but even this is fraught with jealously and pettiness. I couldn't stand it after the second time a so called 'sister' pulled sme serious crap on me. I am grateful that it happened. If M and his trip had fostered true love and respect between individuals I'd still be there. But then again if that were the case it might not be so bad (but I still wouldn't pay for his lifestyle - and I'd have to go to those events - NEVER MIND scrap that last part of my post about maybe I'd still be there. No way..) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Jul 25, 1998 at 02:12:19 (EDT)
From: Gail Email: None To: Mickey the Pharisee Subject: You are a priest? Message: I am interested in finding out how you decided to become a priest? Having rejected the MJ belief system, how did you adopt another? Do you feel like you are faking it when you make statements such as, 'Christ said . . . I wish I could still believe in God. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Jul 25, 1998 at 09:28:38 (EDT)
From: Katie Email: None To: Gail Subject: the spiritual rip-off Message: Dear Gail - I really relate to what you say when you say you don't believe in god anymore. I think that finding a new belief system is a problem for a lot of exes. Some people decide to become atheists and are very comfortable with that (OK with me), but I just can't do that. So I am still searching too. It's hard for me to believe - really believe - in a higher power, but I can't discard the feeling that there is some kind of higher power out there. JW and I have discussed this phenomenon, and we call it the 'spiritual rip-off'. Just wanted you to know that you're not alone. Take care, Katie Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Jul 25, 1998 at 14:44:27 (EDT)
From: Carol Email: None To: Katie, Gail,Michael Subject: the spiritual rip-off Message: Me too. I really love it when I am full of faith, but I get this nagging feeling that I'm just brainwashing myself. Then I feel that I can maybe accept it on the basis of it feeling better rather than on the basis of it being the truth or not. An ex recently shared with me that the truth is relative based on what each person needs and believes with a common core of loving and learning to love. And that we are very much an important part of it. I think I can accept that. I have often thought that God, if a god-presence exists as an entity, accepts the love from an individual and knows our hearts and returns love despite the fact of what we call God or whether we even believe in God. Maybe we just believe that people are basically good and we are meant to be kind and use reason and maintain our freedom, like some atheists believe. Like 'a rose is still a rose by any other name'. If we think we are worshipping God, than God gets the message, despite us sending it to M or Jesus or whoever! Our beliefs will be reinforced by our beliefs and our company. Carol Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Jul 25, 1998 at 12:22:57 (EDT)
From: Mickey the Pharisee Email: mgdbach@ziplink.net To: Gail Subject: You are a priest? Message: It was a long process and happened over many years. I had wanted to be a priest (Episcopal, not RC; no poverty, chastity, obedience for me!) since I was 14, but there was a lot that I wanted to do. I don't want to use this site to preach (like it would do any good anyway!) and I only post stuff about Christianity when I see people make inaccurate statements like 'Jesus taught this Knowledge' or have questions about passages from the Bible. If you want to talk about my beliefs and experiences, e-mail me at the address above. As for your final question, I don't say things I don't believe, so I usually say 'according to the Gospel of (Mat, Mark Luke, etc) Jesus said;' I don't want to fake anything anymore; I did enough of that as a Premie. Regards, Michael Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Jul 25, 1998 at 12:43:39 (EDT)
From: congrats Email: None To: Mickey the Pharisee Subject: You are a pastor Message: Would you consider posting or sending your weekly sermon? I would like to get it. How about if you think one of them is good for whatever subject we are talking about, you post your sermon or exerpt. We are your friends, no need to be shy. b Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Jul 25, 1998 at 19:43:51 (EDT)
From: Mickey the Pharisee Email: mgdbach@ziplink.net To: congrats Subject: You are a pastor Message: Hi Bill, I sent you tomorrow's sermon via e-mail. Fr. Mickey Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Jul 25, 1998 at 12:31:04 (EDT)
From: G's mom Email: None To: Mickey the Pharisee Subject: your journey Message: When I read you are a priest I immediately went to look for a journey entry. If you care to could you answer some of my questions? Were you a Christian before you became a premie? After you were a premie was it hard for you to have faith that there could be any kind of God? Like Gail asked, how do you deal with the issue of faith. I percieve faith as the belief in something which cannot be proved. Of course the Guru stated that Knowledge 'proved' the existance of God. I feel that Knowledge proved the existance of our physical senses and nervous systems. Anytime I think about inviting the idea of spirituality into my life I have great fear. Because I had unquestioning faith once and look where it got me. It was what made me vulnerable to the cult. Yet I have had many experiences post Guru that I feel have been spiritual. I have been there when new life comes into the world. I have been there when a life is lost. There is something in those moments that I feel transcends the ordinary. I have a pesonal, private, spiritual life. My question for you is how do you rejoin an organized religion after being in a cult? Doesn't everything remind you of the cult? I can't go to a church without constant comparison. Any insight you have would be appreciated. ( Prominent atheists of the site..I would really like to hear his point of view, if you must argue with him could you delay it until the rest of us who are interested have had a chance for a dialogue?) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Jul 25, 1998 at 17:42:05 (EDT)
From: Mickey the Pharisee Email: mgdbach@ziplink.net To: G's mom Subject: your journey (PT 1) Message: I will answer your questions, and my journey entry is under my name, Michael Dresbach. I was raised in a Christian household; my parents were missionaries, and I went to an Evangelical Christian school. I must have been 'saved' a good twenty-five times. My experience of that school of Xianity is that it works too much on guilt and negative emotions. I had abandoned Xianity by the time I became a premie. A few years after I left DLM I went through a period of atheism which lasted about five years. I re-entered the church through music; I was hired work as a musician for the RC Diocese of San Jose, a job I held for seven years. While working in the church, I began to have dialogues with the priests and others and became open to Xianity again. I do not think that it is the only way and I am a Xian for many reasons, one being cultural. Although I grew up in Asia, I am a Westerner. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Jul 25, 1998 at 17:49:44 (EDT)
From: Mickey the P Email: None To: Mickey the Pharisee Subject: your journey (PT 2) Message: Xianity is part of the Western mind-set. I do not believe in un-questioning faith; I believe that it is important to question and to doubt. I do not accept everything taught by the church. As an Anglican, I am allowed to have my own mind and reason and question things. I am very sensitive to aspects of the church and groups which have a 'cultish' nature; my cult radar is always on high. I am not an atheist because I have had transcendent experiences which I attribute to a power I call God. I am also aware of how much some transcendent experiences are the result of brain chemistry and physiology. I have nothing against those who do not believe in God. I am very much aware of the evil that has been done in the name of God and of Christ but I am also aware of the good which has been done in the same names. I operate under the guidance of the message of Jesus in Matthew 25: when you do this for the least of these, you do it for me. Here endeth the Talk. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Jul 25, 1998 at 18:43:40 (EDT)
From: Jerry Email: None To: Mickey the P Subject: your journey (PT 2) Message: I am also aware of how much some transcendent experiences are the result of brain chemistry and physiology. Do you really think so, Michael? I once had an experience where I felt as if a veil of absolute mercy descended upon and enshrouded me with a love true and complete. Every fiber in my being was touched by it. I would hate to think that this experience was merely the result of brain chemistry. I prefer to think of it as a visitation from God. It's this experience, in fact, which is the only real reason I have for believing in God. I should also point out that this experience is the MAIN REASON I have for leaving Maharaji, as odd as that may sound since by the way he speaks you would think that he is the champion of this type of experience. I wasn't meditating when I had this experience, I wasn't at satsang or a video presentation, I wasn't even thinking of M or K. So where does he fit in with it, hmm? I've never been able to make a connection. I don't think I ever will. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Jul 25, 1998 at 19:41:27 (EDT)
From: Mickey the Pharisee Email: None To: Jerry Subject: your journey (PT 2) Message: That's a really great experience, and I don't think that was brain chemistry, but I do feel that some experiences are. I can't attribute every transcendent experience to God; I had some pretty heavy 'spiritual' experiences on LSD. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Jul 25, 1998 at 20:24:45 (EDT)
From: Bobby Email: None To: Mickey the Pharisee Subject: your journey (PT 2) Message: what's your criteria? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Jul 25, 1998 at 21:30:25 (EDT)
From: Jerry Email: None To: Mickey the Pharisee Subject: your journey (PT 2) Message: I had some pretty heavy 'spiritual' experiences on LSD I did too. But I would call those more consciousness experiences than spiritual. This other experience I'm talking about is unlike anything I've ever had under the influence of drugs or any other mind altering substance. It was quite natural. It made me feel like I was in my true state, like I was home. It's difficult to explain. It was a rebirth, quite sudden and unexpected. It's interesting to know you're a priest, Michael. I hope you're having better luck as one than you had as a premie. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Jul 25, 1998 at 19:14:50 (EDT)
From: g's mom Email: None To: Mickey the P Subject: your journey (PT 2) Message: Thanks so much for your post. I very much respect what you have to say. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Jul 26, 1998 at 03:51:24 (EDT)
From: nigel Email: None To: G's mom Subject: your journey Message: ( Prominent atheists of the site..I would really like to hear his point of view, if you must argue with him could you delay it until the rest of us who are interested have had a chance for a dialogue?) Hi, G's mom, I don't know whether I qualify as 'prominent', but I'd just like to say I have never had any problem with Mickey's posts. I usually make a point of reading them for their humour and all-round sanity. And like Mickey/Michael says, he doesn't use the forum for preaching. My own fire is usually reserved for those who either make contemptous remarks about atheists in general, or start spouting new-age bubble-think regarding paranormal phenomena etc.,as if such things were established fact ('perfect masters' possessing 'powers' fall into this category) Best wishes, Nigel Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Jul 26, 1998 at 12:47:28 (EDT)
From: G's mom Email: None To: nigel Subject: atheists Message: Dear Nigel, I share your contempt for new age bubble-think. I was afraid that he would not be able to answer my questions before it turned into an atheism arguement. I was wrong about that. What seems so unique is he is an established member of a mainline protestant denomination (does Episcopalian qualify as such? I hope so , if not excuse my ignorance). I have never met an ex premie who was not either an atheist, agnostic, or had replaced the guru with some other cultlike thing...( whether it be soap selling, another indian trip, or even a few extreme fundamentalist Christians who now approach Christianity like they once did the cult). I am extremely curious about how someone can have religion in their life after being in a cult. I was very impressed by his answers too. I also respect you and Jim ( a very prominent atheist!) but I was so curious about how he had achieved what many of us might like to post cult, a place for spirituality/God in his life without losing his rational decision making abilities and a way to approach God that is not in cult think mode. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Jul 27, 1998 at 00:56:03 (EDT)
From: web.*>* Email: None To: G's mom Subject: atheists Message: I wouldn't be able to confirm Jim's alleged athiesm at this point. He might just see that science shows an origional intelligence but he might have huge objections to peoples views of that intelligence. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jul 22, 1998 at 17:19:47 (EDT)
From: Carol Email: coopmtncarol@hotmail.com To: Everyone Subject: Food for thought.. Message: I'm feeling somewhat depressed and lonely today...so what did I do, but turn to some of my other 'Bookmarks' for a different perspective...from angst to existentialism or something like that. I'm searching for more motivation in my life...like:how would I live my life if this one was really the only one I got? This is an excerpt from David Lane at www.mtsac.edu/`dlane/patchurch.html Neural Reflections Ruminations on the Mind-Brain Debate If we are more than the physical substratum of our cerebral cortex, why is it that everything we do is modulated by our brain? I go to sleep because of chemical-electrical signals triggered within my skull; I wake up for the same reason. Yet because my awareness seems distinct from my bodily apparatus, I somehow believe that I am running the show. However, the reality is that I can do very little. 'I' don't digest my food. 'I' don't beat my heart. 'I' don't develop antibodies to ward off diseases. 'I' don't even know if I originate thoughts or only direct them. The 'I' does very little indeed, except believe itself to be more than what it actually is --an epiphenomenon of networking neurons. So far so good, but there's one glitch here: consciousness talks about neurons, neurons don't talk about consciousness. Everything we have known in the world must come through the medium of consciousness; even the idea of neuroscience, even the idea of philosophy, even the idea of materialism, must arise through the medium of self-reflective awareness. It is, in fact, that medium of consciousness --irreducible in terms of actual lived-through experience-- which contextualizes everything we can ever know about the universe. What comes first: Neurons or Awareness? If you say the former, how do you know unless you are already aware? If you say the latter, why is it that when someone clubs you over the head with a bat that your awareness of this world ceases? The fact remains that whatever is the source of our 'I' awareness, it does not alter our existential dilemmas. We are still stuck to living in a world which seems to transcend its neural origins. The following seems to summarize the mind-brain debate, at least from the materialist's perspective: 'Indeed, we know that we are more than just neurons firing; or at least we think we are while the neurons are firing.' --DCL Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jul 22, 1998 at 22:02:47 (EDT)
From: Nigel Email: None To: Carol Subject: Food for thought.. Message: Dear Carol, Thanks for an interesting snip. Lane appears to have addressed a time-honoured debate quite eloquently here. But I really don't think the 'glitch' is a glitch. consciousness talks about neurons, neurons don't talk about consciousness. strikes me as meaningless. If we understood their language properly, we'd probably discover that neurons tell everything about consciousness. Past my bedtime... See, y'all, tomorrow. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 23, 1998 at 21:21:56 (EDT)
From: Selena Email: None To: Carol Subject: Food for thought.. Message: Hi Carol I hope you feel a little better. Depression can be really rough. My Dr. prescribed Serzone for me and I have been taking it all week. I think I can actually feel results already. I resisted getting meds for 4 years, even though 4 years ago I had been on anti depressants and they were helping a lot. But they caused weight gain, a lot, so I quit, dumb isn't it? I commented back to you about the introvert extrovert stuff, down in the Guru in my pocket thread. RE: neurons vs. what? - spirituality ? I haven't decided. I don't feel up to that yet but I do know how harmful religious beliefs can be if they are misplaced! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 23, 1998 at 22:24:44 (EDT)
From: carol Email: None To: Selena and Katie Subject: Food for thought.. Message: Thanks, Today is better(Katie, you ,too...I saw your answer to my post about being on a roller coaster) A very old friend of mine, from early premie days, and who left very early due to bad experiences,came to see me today. She lives close and has been in and out of my life. She's a great role model for me. She doesn't read papers or books except for specific information. (I am a compulsive reader and hope to be more selective) She's just doesn't bother with thoughts about so many things I mull over and she lives a very active life doing things she enjoys: gardening, knitting, weaving, cooking and canning,outdoor rec., enjoying her cats. She's very down to earth and present in the moment. She likes to share her interests and work together. Best of all,she likes me! And she showed up just when I needed a friend! My life has more responsibilities with my kids and parents, but I like her style. Carol Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 23, 1998 at 22:49:27 (EDT)
From: Selena Email: None To: carol Subject: Food for thought.. Message: I am so glad you have a friend like that. It can make all the difference. I know, my friends have gotten me through everything, since I am so estranged from my family. Is it the meds? I am feeling so warm and fuzzy about forum at the moment. And truthfully I don't get this way very often. Must be the meds. hmm... you know Jim maybe this astrology stuff isn't righ and you are right. I am supposed to be detached!! ( Aquarius [can't even spell it]) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jul 24, 1998 at 03:12:39 (EDT)
From: cp Email: None To: Selena Subject: Food for thought.. Message: Apologies for butting in here.about mediction for depression, St Johns Wort or Hypericum mixed with homeopathic doses of gold works nice. The other stuff seems to muffle the emotions . I consulted with an MD with some spiritual background and he described how som anti depressants build up in the Kidneys, which esoterically are that home of the feeling. So a chemical build acts as a sort of artificial sieve for the emotional life. My experience with it is that one can feel muffled or detatched from life. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jul 24, 1998 at 13:39:45 (EDT)
From: Selena Email: None To: cp Subject: Food for thought.. Message: Thanks cp, I know St. John's wart helps a lot of people. Maybe it's a matter of belief with me, I still have faith in modern pharmaceuticals when it comes to certain things. I used to treat everything with herbs and I know they work so I am not sure why I am this way, I think I wanted something tried and true and maybe a little stronger and faster acting. And to be honest being a little muffled and detached sounds quite nice at the moment. Also my depression can get quite severe. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jul 24, 1998 at 13:51:15 (EDT)
From: Carol Email: None To: Selena Subject: Food for thought.. Message: Virtual Hug from me, Selena/Celine, while you're feeling affectionate! Carol Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Jul 25, 1998 at 00:14:55 (EDT)
From: Selena Email: None To: Carol Subject: hugs Message: Thanks for the virtual hug Carol. Right back at ya. I am walking on uncharted territoy here. So... I guess a thank you is enough for now. but I do want to add, that... unless my perceptions are skewed (which they are more than capable of being) - than I have to say I am quite impressed by what this medication is doing. Could it really be that simple a thing as biochemistry? and to think, I tried a guru ... !!!!! Of course there is always more to it but for now I think I will appreciate being free of anxiety and depression for a while. And I'd much rather spend time with my doctor than those events. My doctor is cool. I feel very lucky to have found her. In fact I was discussing moving with my husband recently and I told him there were 2 things keeping me here: my new grandson and my doctor! (gee I fogot the premie community, wonder why??) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Jul 25, 1998 at 14:17:03 (EDT)
From: Carol Email: None To: Selena Subject: hugs Message: I am a firm believer in the power of chemicals to correct our inherent brain chemical deficiencies. Glad you found a good doctor! Just finding the right one that has the best results and fewest unwanted side effects is experimental and sometimes frustrating! I am slowing getting off one in preparation for starting a new one. It has contributed to my roller coaster ride and also is effecting my fibromyalgia in a bad way. I might have to choose between pain(physical) and depression, but I hope to find the right stuff to deal with both! I am also sure that my choices and extremes in my youth were strongly influenced by my neurological differences! Carol Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Jul 25, 1998 at 17:29:53 (EDT)
From: Selena Email: None To: Carol Subject: hugs & modern medicine Message: I am also sure that my choices and extremes in my youth were strongly influenced by my neurological differences! So true! Including the cult involvement. For me especially the cult involvement. A while back I posted a favorite quote from the movie Bull Durham. (I was also supporting the thread that said Kevin Costner has become boring) Anyway the quote goes ' This world was made for those not cursed with a sense of self awareness' I like the quote because it supports the fact that the more intelligent or sensitive one is, the harder time they will have in this harsh world. I hope that doesn't sound snobbish. It's not meant that way. But if meds help then good! They certainly seem to be helping me. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jul 24, 1998 at 03:28:16 (EDT)
From: will*<* Email: None To: Carol Subject: Food for thought.. Message: Hi Carol! Well you are smart that is for sure. Whatever we look at or do can leave us high and dry and looking for something to reconnect us with a good right feeling. You know how there is a help button on your computer? I think there is a help option in life and it doesn't hurt to ask. If too many moments are lonely or have that bleak quality, a move or change might be due. Being needed is good for us, and If I was Mickey the P. or runamok, I would say that yeshua/jesus said that there IS a concious god and that he said try to feel love for that friend god and others and he said 'that as you believe, so shall it be done to you' So maybe believe that if you poke around some more, you will find another good friend or a few and that they will add to your fun. I wish more human fun and interaction of the type you want for you. Maybe wishing is potent. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jul 24, 1998 at 13:46:28 (EDT)
From: carol Email: None To: will*<* Subject: Thankyou for wishes! Message: Good points,too! My 'smart' is not always an asset to me. I always feel better when I focus on love and gratitude. My best wishes to you *<*, and all. Carol Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jul 24, 1998 at 08:58:36 (EDT)
From: Jerry Email: None To: Carol Subject: You'll get through Message: I'm feeling somewhat depressed and lonely today... 'Just another tricky day for you. You'll get through.' Those words are sung by Roger Daltry at the end of some Who song from back in the eighties. I don't even remember the name of the song. I just know that the first time I heard those words, I found them reassuring. I hope you find them reassuring, too. And I hope you're feeling better. I know this post is 2 days after the fact. Jerry Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Jul 25, 1998 at 02:03:00 (EDT)
From: Gail Email: None To: Carol Subject: You'll get through Message: Dear Carol: I saw a sign on a beautiful red convertible mustang today: MID-LIFE CRISIS OVER--MUST SELL! I have been doing a little goal setting and positive imaging. It is fun, time consuming, and is giving me some hope. You might try picking up some motivational tapes/books. Luv, Gail Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Jul 25, 1998 at 14:26:20 (EDT)
From: carol Email: None To: Gail Subject: You'll get through Message: Gail, That's funny! (the sticker) If I'm in a midlife crisis, I must have a lifespan of about 160 years cause it's been going on since I was about 13! No, seriously, it does help me to be around positive thinking people and for me, faith is a necessary part of feeling better, even though a little voice in the background of my consciousness says that I believe something only because I wish it to be so...I *prefer* my outlook and behavior and motivation, etc. when I am experiencing a belief in the infinite possibilities of a loving universe created by a loving God. I have recently having a doubt-fest along with some added stresses in my family and some biochemical changes as I try to improve my moods with changes in anti-depressants! I know I will get through! Humor helps me a lot. Carol Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jul 22, 1998 at 15:39:50 (EDT)
From: PAM Email: None To: Brian Subject: Lose the blueprints Message: I read in What's New that the upper level of blueprints is going to be posted when available. I say lose the blueprints. Whether or not you like them, a family lives here. This is their home. Anyone's home is his/her private place and sanctuary. This is a gross invasion of privacy. Would you like people to have the floorplan of your home? Whether or not you like M. or his residence or how his residence was built, it is his home. Earlier there was much discussion and disagreement about the 'letter' and whether or not it should have been posted. I say 'not' to that too. Common decency is called for on this site. I appreciate and participate in discussions here. However, I do not condone violation of M's or anyone else's privacy. You're losing credibility with this type of post. You're like someone who proclaims to be against the death penalty and then executes the convicted. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jul 22, 1998 at 16:03:58 (EDT)
From: Mike Email: None To: PAM Subject: Lose the blueprints Message: PAM: May I disagree! Every ex and current premie has a RIGHT to know where THEIR money and efforts went. For those in the U.S., we've got blueprints of the Whitehouse, for C's sake! If the President is supposed to be accountable for how he receives/spends, up to and including accounting for the gifts given to him, then I think the same should hold true for M. After all, he set himself up as G_D!!! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jul 22, 1998 at 16:26:27 (EDT)
From: John Email: None To: PAM Subject: Lose the blueprints Message: Well, you have to consider why we are doing it (and I don't know for sure since I am not the one doing it), I think it's to illustrate the luxury that M lives in. I think M might deserve this kind of publicity. He craves attention and worship. He demands it of his followers. Hey, Mr. Rawat, welcome to the flip side of worship! btw, I think your death penalty example is totally off the mark. I love this site because we are able to speak truthfully of our experience following M. Certainly how M spends the money that is donated to him is of interest to those of us who found his spiritual leadership lacking. Don't you think it's fascinating that he lives the way he does? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jul 22, 1998 at 17:04:01 (EDT)
From: CP Email: None To: John Subject: Lose the blueprints Message: When I looked at the blueprints,my experience was a certain interest, but then I felt sort of nauseous. The nausea was because I flashed on the family living there. We dont know how things are going in the family unit. Marolyn might be there with a herd of teenagers and a husband who is on the road all the time cause he thnks he's god. So i felt sick, because viewing the floor plan of their home felt like a real voyeristic invasion of their privacy. Hell, if a group had a 'fascination' with the floor plan of my house, I'd feel like I was living under a microscope and would move out. I dont have much of an issue with Marolyn. She no doubt has reached the age where she is reflecting on it all. No amount of luxury can replace a persons integrity--and I get the feeling that she has integrity and is CONSIDERING a change. I dont want to contemplate her route to her bathroom. Having said that , the angels are still singing 'tammy baker tammy baker tamm....' Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jul 22, 1998 at 18:08:12 (EDT)
From: Gerry Email: None To: CP and PAM Subject: Lose the blueprints Message: CP:So i felt sick, because viewing the floor plan of their home felt like a real voyeristic invasion of their privacy. This sounds like a personal problem. You work it out for yourself. I don't have any problem with putting his ostentatious display of wealth on for all to see. After all, where did the money come from, hmmm? PAM (people around Maharaji?): Common decency is called for on this site. I appreciate and participate in discussions here. However, I do not condone violation of M's or anyone else's privacy. You're losing credibility with this type of post. Blah, blah, blah. The guy is a public figure, proclaiming to be something he is not. The money came from donations from cult members. I'm getting really tired of this ''credibility'' thing every time more examples of BM's fraud and lies are exposed. Same old line comes out again and again. Like it's supposed to make us scurry back into the shadows and hide. Forget it, we're not going away and the BM's pants are going to be pulled down in public again and again until HE goes away. BTW, where's BM's common decency? He disdains the very people who sustain him. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jul 22, 1998 at 20:02:14 (EDT)
From: Rick Email: None To: PAM Subject: Lose the blueprints Message: PAM says: I appreciate and participate in discussions here. May I point out that you don't actually participate in discussions... you regurgitate a pathetic loop of cult programming. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jul 22, 1998 at 20:46:53 (EDT)
From: cp Email: None To: Rick Subject: lose the blueprints Message: thats your opinoin Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 23, 1998 at 00:15:17 (EDT)
From: pam Email: None To: Rick--pathetic loop Subject: Have you read any posts? Message: Hey Rick, exactly which posts do you think are part of the pathetic loop? I started the thread on Chomsky. (I like him.) I questioned the 'royal' lineage (started a lineage thread and participated in an earlier one, challenging the lineage idea). I posted about the Malibu Madam--not exacting a 'party line' post. I have a lot of bones to pick with M., but I agree with Keith that everything isn't in black and white. You seem to want to have a forum where everyone agrees, everyone thinks alike. Sounds like a cult to me! If you want to get your ideas to the point that they're actually received on the other end, then lambasting and accusing and verbally vomiting doesn't serve you. But maybe you don't care about actually communicating. I am questioning a lot of what I've been told (and accepted) over the last 25 years. And I'm willing to question more, but your type of post cuts my questioning off at the knees. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 23, 1998 at 01:19:29 (EDT)
From: Rick Email: None To: pam Subject: Have you read any posts? Message: Pam wrote: Hey Rick, exactly which posts do you think are part of the pathetic loop? In your post on June 23 responding to Gail's nausea from maharaji, you wrote: Anyway, even if you're disenchanted with the organization surrounding M, you can still, privately, enjoy going inside. You haven't said alot about maharaji on the Forum, Pam. Just what do you think? The color of cult programming is vagueness - nothing is in black and white, that's the whole trick. What bones do you have to pick with maharaji? Pam wrote: You seem to want to have a forum where everyone agrees, everyone thinks alike. Absolutely incorrect. Despite popular opinion, I've always encouraged premies to post here. They demonstrate maharaji's deception and mind programming. I do think they act like idiots but I don't deny that I used to act in a similar fashion. In addition, I don't always agree with the ex-premies who post here... not even most of the time. I even tell them they're jerks when I think that. The thing is, Pam, what we're doing here is examining maharaji, his 'knowledge' and his organization. Part of that process is shining a light on the details, including our own delusions. I can tell you a ton of delusions I used to have about maharaji, knowledge and premies. These delusions weren't uncovered by pleasantries, they were uncovered because of brutal honesty. Pam wrote: If you want to get your ideas to the point that they're actually received on the other end, then lambasting and accusing and verbally vomiting doesn't serve you. Pam, part of the cult programming is not being able to express yourself emotionally, not being able to get angry, afraid or disappointed with your whole body. What you are calling 'lambasting' and 'verbally vomiting' is expression. Get with it, baby. You don't have to be a stiff piece of cardboard anymore! I know it doesn't look like it, but my type of posting doesn't cut your questioning off at the knees. What I'm doing in posting here is questioning. Maybe that irritates you and maybe that's not such a bad thing. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 23, 1998 at 01:37:51 (EDT)
From: pam Email: None To: Rick Subject: Answering Rick's questions Message: Rick, if you read my post in the lineage thread re 'three steps' I said that I as the Master of Knowledge M. is three steps ahead of me but that I think I am ahead of him psychologically. My programming about not expressing etc. certainly happened, but way before I was involved with M--that programming happened in my family, growing up. And that I think is much stronger. I got freaked out when my Italian and Jewish ashram sisters ranted and raved expressing their anger with their whole bodies (their family traditions). Am the full expression stuff. As far as my bones to pick with M., they are deep and real and I take them up with him, not you. Before tonight, I might have discussed them here, but with the level of disrespect you show, I choose now not to do so. Get with it honey. You're over the top. Get to the bottom of your anger and resolve it. It seems to be eating you away and clouding your judgment. I'm signing off now. I am never going to post here again. This is was not dialogue. This was attack. Good-bye. And thanks Keith for your kindness. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 23, 1998 at 09:46:31 (EDT)
From: Katie Email: None To: pam Subject: To Pam Message: Dear Pam - I've been reading most of your posts all along, and I don't think they are suggestive of 'cult programming'. You don't reveal very much of who you are and what you think at times, which can be frustrating - I don't feel like I've really gotten to know you at all except for a few bits and pieces here and there. Your last post to Rick was the most personally revealing post you've made, and it did make me feel like you were a real person (I know you ARE - it's just that sometimes this doesn't come across on the Internet). Although I like Rick very much, I disagree with his attack on you and thought he was over-reacting (and I disagreed with the vehemence of his attack on MelBourne too.) I really hope you will consider keeping on posting here. Regards from Katie P.S. At first I got slightly miffed by you bringing up the point about the blueprints, but then I realized, as G's mom said, that it was a question that needed to be asked. I personally didn't even think about it being a privacy issue at all because blueprints don't seem secret to me - probably because a lot of my family members work in the building trades. I still don't think that there is a problem with the blueprints being on the site, but you're definitely entitled to express your opinion here. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 23, 1998 at 12:31:41 (EDT)
From: Selena Email: None To: pam Subject: Answering Rick's questions Message: You say you take up your problems with M with him? Really? Do you call him on the phone or visit? Or do you write him letters that he responds to? I have read here that others have tried this and he in unavailable. RE: blueprints - I have to agree with others who have said he gave up that right to privacy when he started scamming and the house is part of everyone who gave their money. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 23, 1998 at 13:53:09 (EDT)
From: Mike Email: None To: Selena Subject: Answering Rick's questions Message: Selena, from the very beginning, the only people I saw that had ready access to M were those with LOTS of money (or something else that he wanted). Oh yeah, occasionally he would show up somewhere (like the Wilshire Ashram in LA) and talk to individual premies, but after he became a 'success,' he became unresponsive to the questions/concerns of individuals. I camped across the street from his house in Pacific Palisades for a week in hopes of talking with him and the best I got was 'security' premies telling me I didn't belong there. Hmmmm... I guess I wasn't rich enough for his attentions. ;-) Mike Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 23, 1998 at 16:02:49 (EDT)
From: Selena Email: None To: Mike Subject: M available NOT Message: Yes, this is what I often heard from people. I never tried to be close to him. It's odd, I stuck around for a long time even though I got some kind of sense that I would NOT want to be around M. Just little things like the way he looks at people, the way he brags, etc. told me it would be a drag. Were you around when they posted those Q and A's in And It Is Divine? Those were so lame. You could write your own answer and not bother asking him. IT's always the same answer. So I never tried. Plus, something about the way premies almost competed to be 'in the presence' made me nauseous so I never competed. Life is just too short for that. I don't really expect to get an answer from PAM. How about it PAM, proove me wrong tell me - how do you address your concerns to M? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 23, 1998 at 17:01:12 (EDT)
From: Mike Email: None To: Selena Subject: M available NOT Message: Selena: Yes I was around back then. I haven't written my bio yet, but Scott Talkington and I were in the same K session back in 74. We were both camped out in a field across the street from the Palisades residence before we went to San Francisco to receive K. Like I said earlier, I was hoping for some contact, but the only contact I got was from security trying to make us 'go away.' Looking back at it, it was just weird... I remember the Q&A's, too. Not much substance to them. Again, I look back and wonder 'why I didn't see the signs earlier?' My BLINDERS must have been the full-face variety! - Yes, pam.... They beat me to it, but my question is the same. Do you have real physical contact/communications and do you REALLY discuss your disagreements with him? 'Now I know you're g_d and the perfect master and everything, but I have a bone to pick with you!' (Somehow I doubt this scenario...) OR Do you pray to him and ask him questions? (This is the scenario I think is correct!). Before you say it, I'm not being mean-spirited! I REALLY want to know the answer to those questions so I know 'where you are coming from.' Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jul 24, 1998 at 14:09:51 (EDT)
From: Carol Email: coopmtncarol@hotmail.com To: pam Subject: Answering Rick's questions Message: 'Never say never' You're welcome back or to post privately to my e-mail. It's easy to get a bit hurt emotionally when we get challenged. I also felt that way the first times I felt attacked. I sometimes have tried to change the way people post, asking them to be more civil or kind. But, I also find valuable the way so many people here do not cover up or sugar coat their true feelings. Rick's post is honest and questioning. I think, even in writing and reading, people 'hear' the message through their own personal filters. Our pasts definitely figure into it. I have,most of my life, been a conflict-avoider. Staying and dealing with my feelings and saying what I believe and what I want here, has helped me to learn valuable and transferable life skills. By the way, how do you deal with M directly? Do you have access to personal contact or are you referring to 'prayer'? Carol Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 23, 1998 at 02:12:35 (EDT)
From: CP Email: None To: Rick Subject: Pam - wait Message: 'what were doing here is examining M----' Pam --- thats where Rick is at. I dont see that as the only purpose of the forum. He hangs himself. He 'does not! expect everyone to think alike. (I had hope here but no -he here divides the posters into premmies and ex premmies) Rick-- you blockhead - ex premmies might want to discuss something BESIDES exposing Maharaji,( like spiritual integration, ethics of ex -premmies , ect ect) and from different points of view. You sound like your decree is that the purpose of the forum is to do a rerun of the same tape over and over for everybody. Its good to hold onto anger, but get it integrated. Pam - I hope you at least keep reading . Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 23, 1998 at 05:12:00 (EDT)
From: Keith Email: None To: Pam Subject: Pam - wait Message: Pam, I almost never posted here again...a couple of months of ago . But cooled off and now I feel much more a part of the forum. Not because everyone is always polite to me . But I realise that in any gathering of people , if they are to really feel able to express freely ....there are going to be frictions. Never-the -less , I feel strongly that when powerful emotions get triggered it's a good time to take a break and do a bit of inner processing....and some meditating. It will be a shame if the forum loses you. And I hope personally that you will reconsider. Regards , Keith Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 23, 1998 at 10:01:49 (EDT)
From: Gerry Email: None To: Rick Subject: Rick you blockhead Message: Gees Rick, you really stepped in it that time, didn't you. HA ha ha. you disrespectful thing you. Actually I thought we were seeing a kinder, gentler Rick in your last post to Pam. I thought you responded in a reasonable manner, but then who am I to say? You obviously touched a nerve, and now Pam is going to take her ball and go home. WAAAAAAAAA Doesn't this sound like a school girl trick? Mean ole Rick said boo to me now I'm never coming back and it's all his fault I'm staying in the cult. Bad Rick. Mean ole bad blockhead Rick. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 23, 1998 at 10:53:14 (EDT)
From: Rick Email: None To: Gerry Subject: Rick you blockhead Message: I fucked up, Gerry. I forgot we're supposed to walk on tiptoes. No asking anybody who they are or where they're coming from. If someone loans BM a dime just look at it as impartial charity. I particularly like Pam's statement: As far as my bones to pick with M., they are deep and real and I take them up with him, not you. That's a good one! Taking up a problem with BM - HAHAHAHAHAHA! Maybe she can take up her problem with Linda Gross? Nice, polite, patronizing PR. Yes, give me a jar of vaseline anyday. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 23, 1998 at 12:35:18 (EDT)
From: Selena Email: None To: Rick Subject: Rick you blockhead Message: Gerry said Actually I thought we were seeing a kinder, gentler Rick I know Rick you just got tired of them ignoring you! Selena - decided again the kinder and gentler one for a while - maybe it the moon or something - oh oh, don't want to go there! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 23, 1998 at 13:00:18 (EDT)
From: Gerry Email: None To: Rick Subject: Rick, you blockhead Message: I particularly like Pam's statement: As far as my bones to pick with M., they are deep and real and I take them up with him, not you. Rick, you insensitive lout, this means, you know, talking to margie in your heart, a kind of cosmic cell phone thingy when you pranam (in your heart, of course) and pray to goomeraji to please, please explain your lila and why, oh why does everyone think you are such a hypocrite and fraud when I love you so much (in my heart). Didn't you know that? Of course you didn't, you Rottweiler, you're too busy eating kittens and peeing on ladies legs. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 23, 1998 at 13:39:21 (EDT)
From: Katie Email: None To: Gerry Subject: Pinhead and Blockhead Message: Gerry, I think that you and Rick are going TOO FAR in making fun of this woman's post. She obviously got angry at Rick and made a pretty clear post saying that - which is what Rick was trying to encourage her to do. So what's the problem? As far as ridiculing the 'bone-picking' statement, it's exactly the kind of thing I would say if I was upset and felt attacked. I wish you guys would quit making fun of what she said. I hate being ridiculed and I would REALLY hate it if someone took one of my posts and picked it apart to make fun of things that I said. I am sure I have said a LOT of things on here that you both could make fun of, especially since my posts are often pretty spontaneous. In fact I am sure you could pick this particular post apart easily and come up with some things to ridicule. Honestly, I don't see what is so bad about what Pam has said on the forum. I haven't found her posts to be offensive, and they haven't made me very angry. You guys are so hostile to anyone who is not an ex-premie that I think you scare off many people who might like to post here. I also think that some of what you called 'evasive' on Pam's part - not saying where she stood re Maharaji - was fear of flaming (I may be wrong - I'm not Pam, obviously). But I'd be scared as hell to post here if I had questions about Maharaji and/or his organization but didn't exactly know where I stood. And I want people who feel like that to feel comfortable posting here. I feel like shaking you both and saying 'Wassamatta widyou!', but you're probably both too damn big. Katie Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 23, 1998 at 14:53:40 (EDT)
From: Rick Email: None To: Katie Subject: Pinhead and Blockhead Message: Katie, You're a lulu. I wasn't trying to make Pam angry, I was trying to address the monster of cultdom. I pointed out to her that her characterization of my anger as verbal vomiting was colored by emotional repression. Gerry and I weren't making fun of her anger but of her exit from the forum on the grounds that she couldn't leave the cult because there was no acceptance for the cult here. Once she said she was leaving the forum, I think it was fair to assume she wouldn't be here to feel hurt. I know it's a fine distinction, but we weren't ridiculing her, we were ridiculing the cult programming. After all, it is ridiculous. Katie, I don't see your point that you could be ridiculed here also. You never have been. I've always been very respectful of you and it isn't by mistake. And everyone else is respectful of you, so what's the problem? I'm not very respectful of Jim and he's an ex-premie - I think he's obnoxious despite agreeing with him about BM. And I really do wonder how far Gerry has his head stuck up his ass to have thought Reagan was a decent and thoughtful man. Part of it might be that guys like me and Gerry, when we take our cars to an auto repair shop, know when the mechanic is starting to diddle us, and we react with a 'Wait a minute, buster.' Sometimes we may speak too soon, but I don't think we did with Pam, and I definitely don't think we did with Mel Bourne. You're a more trusting soul and I think you'd give someone the benefit of a doubt until you're sure. I think that's endearing but I'm not the same way. When I walk in a house and I smell a rat, I react like 'Where's the fucking rat?' I'd guess that you'd say 'Are we sure it's a rat? Maybe it's something else. Maybe the smell will go away. Maybe the rat didn't mean any harm.' I would say, 'Let's get the dead rat out of here and kill all his relatives.' You're right that we're hostile to premie-think and particularly suspicious of the surreptitiousness of the current cult. As soon as someone who hasn't identified themselves or their position starts calling for more prudent procedures in the treatment of BM, it smells fishy to me. You characterize their concerns as innocent questioning but it isn't. Someone who is having a hard time rectifying their presence in BM's cult wouldn't be saying, 'Hey wait a minute, let's not be too quick to say anyone's a child molester.' or 'Wait minute, let's lose the blueprints.' They'd be saying, 'Hey, how much do you think the whole shebang cost?' Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 23, 1998 at 15:19:56 (EDT)
From: Gerry Email: None To: Rick Subject: Pinhead and Blockhead Message: And I really do wonder how far Gerry has his head stuck up his ass to have thought Reagan was a decent and thoughtful man. That does it! I'm leaving and never posting here again! Besides I never said that. It must have been the other Gerry, I mean Jerry, I mean...oh shit. Thank god for my pinhead. It doesn't hurt as much when I insert it up my ass... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 23, 1998 at 15:32:42 (EDT)
From: Selena Email: None To: Gerry Subject: Pinhead and Blockhead Message: Thank god for my pinhead. It doesn't hurt as much when I insert it up my ass... :):) I think you are very funny. But it seems like a dangerous habit Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jul 24, 1998 at 14:29:31 (EDT)
From: carol Email: None To: Selena Subject: Pinhead and Blockhead Message: (Gerry)Thank god for my pinhead. It doesn't hurt as much when I insert it up my ass... :):) (Selena) I think you are very funny. But it seems like a dangerous habit (me-carol) Me too, I love to laugh 'though. THANKYOU pinhead and Blockhead!!! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 23, 1998 at 16:23:06 (EDT)
From: Jerry Email: None To: Gerry Subject: Pinhead and Blockhead Message: Besides I never said that. It must have been the other Gerry, I mean Jerry, I mean...oh shit. I don't think so, Gerry. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 23, 1998 at 16:11:23 (EDT)
From: Katie Email: None To: Rick Subject: To the Blockhead Message: Hi Rick - You're right that I do give people the benefit of the doubt, perhaps too much, and that (as Gerry said) I empathize with them. I just thought in this case that you guys were being a little hard on Pam. I still think so and that is why I said something. It wasn't clear to me that what you were attacking was her opinion about the blueprints (which I didn't agree with, BTW) - I thought you were attacking her for being a programmed premie, which IMHO she did not appear to be. By the way, I didn't mean that you were trying to MAKE Pam angry, I said that you were trying to get her to EXPRESS anger. You said 'Pam, part of the cult programming is not being able to express yourself emotionally, not being able to get angry, afraid or disappointed with your whole body. What you are calling 'lambasting' and 'verbally vomiting' is expression. Get with it, baby. You don't have to be a stiff piece of cardboard anymore!' This to me is an invitation to get angry, which she DID. You also said: Katie, I don't see your point that you could be ridiculed here also. You never have been. I've always been very respectful of you and it isn't by mistake. And everyone else is respectful of you, so what's the problem? I was trying to make the point that we all say things on the forum that might appear ridiculous. I didn't say that anyone HAD made fun of me, but there isn't any reason why it couldn't happen - I mean I am no great fountain of wisdom of anything. That's why I don't like you and Gerry taking sentences out of people's posts and making fun of them. You also said Someone who is having a hard time rectifying their presence in BM's cult wouldn't be saying, 'Hey wait a minute, let's not be too quick to say anyone's a child molester.' or 'Wait minute, let's lose the blueprints.' They'd be saying, 'Hey, how much do you think the whole shebang cost?' I don't think this is true. I think people are in denial about the extent of what's gone on around M, and while most of them don't post their doubts, they probably think them. But I suppose you do have a point about the 'lose the blueprints' - although I am in favor of seeing if the person repeats this kind of behavior before assuming that they are totally programmed. The reason I think this is because one really insidious thing that Maharaji does is that he makes the premies feel SORRY for him. You remember what was in that Durga letter - how people that didn't practice Knowledge really HURT Maharaji. This is really difficult for some people to get over (especially if it ties in with any childhood programming). I know you really have a hard time dealing with things that premies say. I think you're entitled to express that here, but sometimes I just feel like I gotta say something too, you know? I do empathize with the premies sometimes because we were all premies too, and some of us were premies fairly recently. I hope you can understand this and not take it as a personal insult (actually I am pretty sure you won't, which I appreciate very much). Regards, Katie Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jul 24, 1998 at 19:36:39 (EDT)
From: Carol Email: None To: Katie Subject: To the Blockhead Message: You already know I agree with you Katie. You are really great about being so consistently helpful to those who have been targets, or whose ideas have been targets. I also enjoy the laughs, because I often take myself and everyone much too seriously. (I hope you reconsider, Pam.) carol Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Jul 25, 1998 at 09:46:32 (EDT)
From: Katie Email: None To: Carol Subject: To the Blockhead Message: Thanks, Carol, I appreciate it. I do believe that Rick and Gerry's posts are quite salutory and helpful for some people, but sometimes I just feel the need to express my way of looking at things too. I am not as diplomatic as you, that's for sure. Rick, you don't need to leave before the dinner guests get here. We'll even let you sit at the table. (Still thinking about Gerry, though...) take care, Katie aka Lulu Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jul 24, 1998 at 14:26:14 (EDT)
From: Carol Email: None To: Rick Subject: Pinhead and Blockhead Message: >I think that's endearing but I'm not the same way. When I walk in a house and I smell a rat, I react like 'Where's the fucking rat?' I'd guess that you'd say 'Are we sure it's a rat? Maybe it's something else. Maybe the smell will go away. Maybe the rat didn't mean any harm.' I would say, 'Let's get the dead rat out of here and kill all his relatives.'< Rick, that really made me laugh!!I'm getting to know you better and like you!!You're the kind of guy I'd want around in certain circumstances! carol Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jul 24, 1998 at 15:23:40 (EDT)
From: Rick Email: None To: Carol Subject: Pinhead and Blockhead Message: Thank you, Carol. I promise to leave before the dinner guests arrive. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 23, 1998 at 14:59:35 (EDT)
From: Gerry Email: None To: Katie Subject: Pinhead and Blockhead Message: Katie, (Love the subject title, BTW) I don't mind a bit of a shaking up once in awhile. So I objected to her tired old line about ''credibilty'' regarding the house plans. She didn't like it so she wants to censor what other people can see and read. That irritates me when it is done in an underhanded method like the ''credibility'' ruse or the ''your gonna get sued'' ruse for that matter. As far as my bones to pick with M., they are deep and real and I take them up with him, not you. THIS is exactly the kind of thing you would say Katie? Really? Pesonally this kind of thinking is just what should be held up as the brainwash it is. It IS ridiculous, isn't it? And then she say she's not posting any more and it's all Rick's fault. Well I say too bad, if she's going to make statements like the above then she should be prepared to back them up. You guys are so hostile to anyone who is not an ex-premie that I think you scare off many people who might like to post here You really think so? Sometimes it's hard to know where people are coming from. I personally don't think there is ANY good to be had out of this cult trip and don't feel like cozying up with any of these people. Remember the person who sold you the guru bill of goods in the first place? Do you thank them for that? No, of course not. Why should we let Pam or anyone get away with this goo goo gooroo crock? Besides why are they afraid to post (which is a big supposition in your mind and my not be true at all)? Because they know their cult line won't be well received here. I like what Mickey said in this thread. That's exactly the way I feel. I really can't see where the ridicule comes in until the cell phone in-your-heart post. And that's only when she blew me away with her school girl-I'm never-posting again act. I think you're over-empathising and over-reacting here, Katie. But I know how that is... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 23, 1998 at 16:29:53 (EDT)
From: Katie Email: None To: Gerry Subject: to Pinhead Message: Dear Gerry - (Before I shake you, let me say that you guys have to come up with a nickname for Jim as well.) I said pretty much all I had to say in my post to Rick, but I didn't want you to feel left out. I should say that I thought Pam's statement about the 'bones' was likely rhetorical or made in anger. I might be wrong, but that is what I meant when I said it is the kind of thing I would say. As far as 'cozying up' to premies, I'm talking about talking to premies who say that they have doubts. I don't even try and talk to the hard-core premies. Some people (like Keith) can take the rough stuff and may even find it salutory, but some people cannot take it and personally, I DO empathize with those people who have a hard time with it. I hate being criticized and ridiculed. It would have been really hard for me to post on this forum when I was a premie on the edge. One thing that I always think about is that 'Premies R US'. I was a premie, you were a premie, and six or seven months ago, Selena, TD, Jude, RT, Gail, Richard, and probably others who I am forgetting would probably have called themselves premies. So therefore my tendency to 'overempathize'. (The 'overreaction' is genetic.) Regards, Katie Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 23, 1998 at 16:46:05 (EDT)
From: Gerry Email: None To: Katie Subject: to Pinhead Message: Thanks Katie, I was beginning to feel left out... I know what you mean about criticism, I lived with near constant criticism, ridicule and humiliation as a kid. Believe me I know how it feels. I'm trying to limit my criticism to ideas, not people but sometimes it's difficult to separate the two when people so deeply identify with an idea or belief system, as they do in a cult. Thanks for the ''Premies Were Us'' reminder. It's been so long I forget what it's like. The absurdity of these cult convictions rattle me sometimes. A nickname for Jim...hmm let me think about it. I'll be more qualified after this weekend. Patty and I are going to Victoria this weekend (tomorrow really) to vist Jim and Laurie. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 23, 1998 at 17:14:11 (EDT)
From: Katie Email: None To: Gerry Subject: to Pinhead - off topic Message: I bet Jim is nicer in real life than on the forum (let me know, cause I might want to go to Victoria some time AND I'd like Peter to go with me. We might come to Washington State for the week before and after Labor Day this year, BTW. Either that or Northern California. Haven't decided yet). Anyway, the nickname has got to contain some Yiddish - preferably Yiddish that Jim doesn't understand. P.S. Sorry about the 'pinhead', but I am a staunch liberal and I hate Reagan too. JW has already flayed him thoroughly, but he did cut back on federal student loans until people like us couldn't get them any more. I was lucky enough to go back to school in 1980 before he cut them to the bone. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 23, 1998 at 18:40:50 (EDT)
From: bb Email: None To: Rick Subject: Rick Message: I like sucessful communicating, and stay out of the battles usually, except when doc is around, but if it was a vote between Rick and some new person, I have to vote for Rick. Rick is a battle hardened warrior from way back during the times we were under constant assault around here. When someone storms off the site or when Bobby and Jim are locked in combat, I just remember that either party can choose another option. Pam made a broad brushed comment about the site and it is not accurate. We aren't described accurately when someone gets upset and tries to describe us. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 23, 1998 at 19:09:10 (EDT)
From: Rick Email: None To: bb Subject: Rick Message: You're a statesman, Bill. Thank you. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 23, 1998 at 21:20:13 (EDT)
From: Keith Email: None To: everyone Subject: my say Message: I agree with Katies sentiments above...in the main. Premies and ex-premies seem to suffer from 'us and them' syndrome...and the twain shall never meet ! For goodness sakes , do we not all have more in common than out personal ideas , no matter how convinced we feel. Sorry for this 'luvvy-duvvy' sentiment. But are we not all human 'beings'? When pricked by a pin (or a pinhead for that matter) does it not hurt you as much as it hurts me? I vote for empathy, sensitivity and civility. Take that all you pinheads and blockheads !!! Regards , Keith. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 23, 1998 at 21:31:38 (EDT)
From: Selena Email: None To: Keith Subject: my say Message: But Keith that's what I was trying to say. We are just human beings. and I asked why should we be expected to act differently than any other group on the net? Some people express themselves one way and some another. I think Rick and Gerry are both really funny and sometimes Rick expresses my anger but so much more articulely. I had to live for years with hippies who were terrified of anger. And I work with a few people who will not and cannot say anything that they consider 'mean'. I hate being around that because it's untrue. You can just FEEL them bristling beneath the surface and it sucks. But I do see the other side. I have always had a problem with posts that just yell profanity at someone and don't say anything much except 'fuck you you suck' that kind of thing pisses me off and I have said so. But I think we need to see the difference. And we all post dumb things sometimes. I cringe at some of the stuff I reread after pressing submit. Oh well. As I said we are all human. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 23, 1998 at 21:53:16 (EDT)
From: Rick Email: None To: Keith Subject: my say Message: Yeah, Keith, we're all human beings - I'm trying not to fall asleep here. This is about a guru who runs a cult, programs people with delusions and soaks them for their energy and money. It is about differentiation, discrimination and distinction, not about sameness and commonalities. Get some backbone, boy. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 23, 1998 at 22:26:43 (EDT)
From: Keith Email: None To: Rick and Selena Subject: my say Message: Backbone you say ! Rick I must have a a spine ...because it bristled and tingled whilst reading your post. (kundalini I guess) But seriously , why can't commonality and honest individuality merge ...reconcile...and express as sensitivity to those we disagree with ? Selena , I don't disagree with your sentiments (in the above post ). I laughed at the thought of you cringing when re-reading a post ...or at the moment you press the 'submit to reply' button. I know the feeling! In fact I'm about to feel it right now! Regards , Keith Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 23, 1998 at 22:43:36 (EDT)
From: Selena Email: None To: Keith Subject: my say Message: Soon to beocme Celine (legally I think) ???? maybe... unless I change my mind again........ You know Keith I may have said this before but it makes me feel SO good that you and I are communicating after our rocky start. It really means a lot to me. And on a different note, it shows how successful this forum is. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jul 24, 1998 at 05:06:49 (EDT)
From: Keith Email: None To: Selena Subject: my say Message: Ditto Selena, Antogonism , negativity and insensitivity really act like poisons ... ; which is another way of saying , 'it's great to share positively with you ' amigo!. Keith Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jul 24, 1998 at 17:23:41 (EDT)
From: Jerry Email: None To: Rick Subject: my say Message: Get some backbone, boy. Anybody who posts on this forum has got backbone, Rick. Especially the premies. It's not easy opening yourself to possible ridicule (definite ridicule if you're a premie) and criticsm. I think you've got backbone confused with outspoken anger and aggression. Which is cool. I find myself often identifying with it. But I wouldn't call it the stuff that backbone is made of. Backbone is the courage to press that Post your message button, knowing there's no turning back once you do. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jul 24, 1998 at 19:04:47 (EDT)
From: Rick Email: None To: Jerry Subject: my say Message: Jerry, What I meant by 'Get some backbone...' is: 'When something is disingenuous, point it out.' Keith had made a reference to our universal qualities as a reason to avoid being critical. This obscures the deception of maharaji and provides cover for cult programming. I acted like a nitwit for years when I was a premie, and you can dress it up any way you like, but it was just plain dumb. There's no reason to be wishy-washy about it. It doesn't help anyone to describe their insanity in euphemisms. I'm not saying Keith or anyone doesn't have courage - it takes courage to follow BM. The backbone I was referring to was the strength to be discriminating. Thanks for suggesting that I clarify this. Rick Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jul 24, 1998 at 21:57:47 (EDT)
From: Jerry Email: None To: Rick Subject: my say Message: The backbone I was referring to was the strength to be discriminating. I hear you, Rick. If it means anything to you I think voices like your's, Gerry's, Jim's etc. are essential to this forum. Your hard-hitting take-no-prisoners style has certainly made me more discriminating in my assesment of M & K. And I thank you for being the way you are. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Jul 25, 1998 at 00:48:22 (EDT)
From: Rick Email: None To: Jerry Subject: my say Message: Yes, Jerry, that means alot to me. Thank you for your input also. Please keep posting. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Jul 25, 1998 at 02:17:16 (EDT)
From: CP Email: None To: Rick Subject: my say Message: Your savage streak is essential. Down in 'committment and rewards', I acknowledge that . I guess the Leo in me cut loose. I feel quite humble and Virgo-like today. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jul 24, 1998 at 14:19:51 (EDT)
From: Carol Email: None To: Gerry Subject: Be nice to girls! Message: You're teasing her for being a girl?!? I object! Reference to playground mentality is appropriate only with respect to your response! I still like you 'though, even if you did vote for Bush and like Raegan! Ick!! Carol Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jul 22, 1998 at 20:57:37 (EDT)
From: nigel Email: nigel@redcrow.demon.co.uk To: PAM Subject: what a house looks like Message: Pam, your brain is like Swiss cheese. Have you found the right guru yet? I'm sure Cheds would appreciate a few followers of your particular mindset. (No offense, Sir David, you could always reject recruits if they were too full of holes) :-) Whether or not you like them, a family lives here So publishing floor plans is abuse, or something? This is a gross invasion of privacy. !!!!????*****%%%%$$$£$£'$£'$£'$£'$£'^&^*&^&^$E!!!! Would you like people to have the floorplan of your home? Sure. Why the hell not? The estate agent has photographs and a complete description. Viewing by appointment. It's a typical 1960's British three bed semi-detached, with an extra bedroom built over the garage (which is always cold because the extra bit of loft isn't insulated). Handy for local shops, schools, and railway station (if you like hiking). 'Deceptively spacious' (small). 'In need of some modernisation' (in need of lots of modernisation). Dining room (for dining in), kitchen (for cooking in), very small garden (which is unfortunate when you have three kids, a dog, a cat, a rabbit, a guinea pig and three goldfish - but a price some of us have to pay to get the extra bedroom), hallway (you can walk down), lounge (for lounging in), bathroom (for bathing in), toilet (for crapping in)... You name it, we got it. Who hasn't? Shout it to the world, I say. In fact, who could possibly object? - apart from, maybe, those with something to hide. But then, I'm not an arrogant shite with a mystique to preserve. (or so my friends assure me...) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jul 22, 1998 at 21:09:34 (EDT)
From: Katie Email: None To: nigel Subject: what a house looks like Message: Hi Nigel - I had to laugh when I read your post because I was almost going to write the same thing. All our neighbors have alsmost exactly the same house that we do. This house was also built in the sixties, and many people have come and gone since then so a lot of people know what my house's floorplan is. Almost all my relatives rent houses or apartments in subdivision, and the floorplans could be acquired from any real estate agent. So what's the big deal? Regards from Katie P.S. I forget who said that Durga/Marolyn would be alone with the kids (not alll teenagers anymore) in the house, but you forgot all the lifetime servants, security guards, and other P.A.M. that are always around. Remember that she doesn't even answer her own telephone! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jul 22, 1998 at 21:16:18 (EDT)
From: nigel Email: None To: Katie Subject: what a house looks like Message: Hi Katie, (in real time, no less!) Glad you shared my sentiments. Just hope you don't try exercising the goldfish (I was ranting without having put my brain into gear). Best wishes Nigel Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jul 22, 1998 at 21:39:51 (EDT)
From: x Email: None To: Pam Subject: greed.... Message: Pam, The reason bm's house is of interst is because it shows that he is in the same mind set as Michael Jackson, repellently greedy to the point of bad taste. If his home wasnt a garish so. cal monstrosity, no one would bother to expose it. bm is an embarrasment to humanity, and his 'follower's are beneath contempt. I pity you, Pam, you deluded fool. x Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 23, 1998 at 00:27:42 (EDT)
From: Keith Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Pams post Message: Why do some forum posters have to be so personally abusive? To disagree with Pams thoughts is fine.....but why attack her as if she has no right to expect any respect just because you don't agree. It seems so childish and overly sensitive to me. Not to mention wisps of authoritarianism. Pam ...don't hurt too much ...the pain should be felt by the perpetrators , not you , for simply expressing your own view. Regards, Keith Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 23, 1998 at 01:13:34 (EDT)
From: cp Email: None To: Keith Subject: Pams position Message: Kieth - nicely put. The forum at times seems to be policed by watch dogs, and should someone post from the fence or in doubt or simply looking at things from differeent angles-- the dogs run out and bark and hassle the thread back into the acceptable negative and hostile pack mentality --using abusive/ anal/ patronizing shlok. 'cutting it off at the knees' most times. This thread is a good example-can't have an exchange about the pros and cons of the house plans being on the net. Cant have a decent exchange on the shades of grey on that one - the rotwiellers' let loose to attack and scatter the energy. And the rotweilller sees fit to go for someones very style of communicationg. Not everyone lives in tract houses, not everyone has nothing to hide,----- and very few of us have a GLOBAL FORUM FIXED on negative thoughts and possibly actions on our house and family. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 23, 1998 at 01:31:12 (EDT)
From: Mickey the Pharisee Email: mgdbach@ziplink.net To: cp Subject: Pams position Message: It may seem that the 'watch dogs' are herding the thread back into line, but I think it is important that these positions are challenged. I don't want to see any facillating premies sitting on the fence; I want to push them off the fence and back into reality. There is nothing 'open minded' about staying with the group mind of DLM or Elan Vital. I will admit that I am hostile to the ideas of that fraud M, and I think that it is important to challenge and poke and prod so that the 'premie group mind' is examined. Sometimes one must shout in order to waken the sleeping. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 23, 1998 at 01:52:02 (EDT)
From: cp Email: None To: Mickey the Pharisee Subject: Pams position Message: In alot of cases it is really preaching to the converted. Some of us are well off the fence and have been for a while.-but see no need to recreate the scene for ourselves.of having just fallen/jumped off. This thread have been only and intellectual discussion , but at times that can be good to get a perspective on the ground one has fallen on and the landscape and the horizon. So ethics came into question for pam, and possibly others. It is undecessary to let the dogs into the parlor, where a dignified discussion is goin on. Then everyone has to quit talking and reposition the furniture and refill the tea cups.-having lost the thread. Maybe a classification for the new threads and posters. -A current premmie- all hands on deck A- on the fence- great alarm get the dogs ready B- Just off the fence needs dusting off and a cold drink of reality C- been off the fence a while and ready to move into discussions/ debate. No dogs allowed. exept for seeing eye dogs - having great sensitivity and bieng mild of manner. Able to navigate gently through all obstacles and fence barb wire. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 23, 1998 at 02:07:33 (EDT)
From: Mickey the Pharisee Email: None To: cp Subject: Pams position Message: Maybe we should just walk the dogs more often.... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 23, 1998 at 11:15:11 (EDT)
From: Gerry Email: None To: cp Subject: In the dog house Message: Dear safe, anonymous, sanctimonious and morally superior CP, Your post to Keith is very interesting to me and revealing, also. Could you possibly stoop to elaborate on a few of your more esoteric ideas here? (watch out for the dog shit) Like this one: the dogs run out and bark and hassle the thread back into the acceptable negative and hostile pack mentality --using abusive/ anal/ patronizing shlok. 'cutting it off at the knees' most times. How is some one abusing and patronising at the same time. Or maybe a better question is: Can you give me an example of this patronizing shlok? Could you explain this statement to my pinhead? Not everyone lives in tract houses, not everyone has nothing to hide,----- and very few of us have a GLOBAL FORUM FIXED on negative thoughts and possibly actions on our house and family. Sorry this sounds like gibberish to my puppie brain. Just read your post to Mickey the P. I can see where you'd be a little sensitive to criticism of communication styles. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 23, 1998 at 13:00:32 (EDT)
From: Rebid Dog Email: None To: Gerry Subject: In the dog house Message: What is it with premies and the dog thing? Maybe M talks about dogs a lot so they are thinking of them. It's funny that a premie is the one who called me that name. Not very intellectual and polite now is it? If I go to a conference of newsgroup and it's anti or pro something and I state the opposite view I will get the full spectrum of responses, from cerebral to f*#k you. Why are we supposed to be different? Do premies think being an ex-premie makes one smarter and nicer and kinder and gentler? If they think that then why are they still premies? Selena, dog-grrrrll - gave up kind and gentle for a little while. Must be the moon - oops I didn't mean that. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 23, 1998 at 16:40:29 (EDT)
From: eb Email: None To: Everyone Subject: New Moon in Leo, oops Message: My golden retriever has asked that we stop dissing dogs. eb Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 23, 1998 at 17:10:57 (EDT)
From: Selena Email: None To: eb Subject: New Moon in Leo, oops Message: I love golden retrievers eb. So the moon is in Leo huh? Well, there you have it! oops. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 23, 1998 at 17:24:07 (EDT)
From: Katie Email: None To: Selena Subject: New Moon in Leo, oops Message: New moon means conscious mind prevails. Full moon = unconscious mind. It's interesting that conscious likes Selena and unconscious seems to prefer Selene. (Of course I am not taking Leo into account but that's all BS, right?) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 23, 1998 at 17:27:56 (EDT)
From: Selena Email: None To: Katie Subject: New Moon in Leo, oops Message: It may or may not be BS. I don't know. But your insight was amazing, no matter what, you have got me thinking about that one. Maybe when I get it all integrated I should be Celine since it's different yet derivitive : ) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Jul 25, 1998 at 01:55:17 (EDT)
From: Gail Email: None To: Rebid Dog Subject: MJ SAYS NO MORE PETS!!!!! Message: In the old days, MJ had a few dogs. No one else was allowed to pet them so that they'd have a lot of love for MJ when he got home. Now he has decided that pets are stupid commodities. He released his exotic birds (they probably died in the hills of Malibu). I guess he has enough human parrots around. He doesn't like the dogs anymore. He talks about how stupid it is to talk to the animals. They can't understand, blah, blah ... Of course, pets take time, money and devotion. MJ wants it all. That is why it is an insult now. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Jul 25, 1998 at 10:24:50 (EDT)
From: Katie Email: None To: Gail Subject: MJ SAYS NO MORE PETS!!!!! Message: Dear Gail - Releasing tame exotic birds out of their natural habitat is cruel - almost as bad as abandoning cats and dogs by the side of the road. It's bad enough that M did it, and what's worse is that some of the premies assume that whatever M does is OK and they can do it to. I belong to several (about 7 or 8) national animal welfare/animal rights organizations, and if there's any way that you or anyone else can get me the exact text of what he says about pets in that video (or even tell me the NAME of the video), I will make sure that these organizations get a copy of M's words. Thanks Gail. This makes me upset and angry. Katie Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Jul 25, 1998 at 11:23:49 (EDT)
From: Gail Email: None To: Katie Subject: MJ SAYS NO MORE PETS!!!!! Message: Anne Johnston told me that MJ had released his birds some time ago. This is not common knowledge. She told me this when she lived here last year. I own an African Grey Parrot and she didn't approve of the time and effort, etc. The 'DON'T OWN A PET, DON'T TALK TO YOUR PET' stuff was recent (within the last two months). I know that having pets are healthy for people. Especially when you've turned into a nun like I have. I can find the quotes on the pets--no problem. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Jul 25, 1998 at 12:47:06 (EDT)
From: G's mom Email: None To: Gail Subject: parrots Message: Gail, So true!! He has human parrots, human dogs to kick and I hear now human pussy cats to pet? What would the lord need with things that cannot be housebroken and have fleas! ( But I bet he doesn't have a premie who can retrieve a stick as well as my lab, and even premies are more likely to turn on you than a faithful dog) G's mom Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Jul 27, 1998 at 10:26:43 (EDT)
From: Katie Email: None To: Gail Subject: MJ SAYS NO MORE PETS!!!!! Message: Thanks, Gail - I'd appreciate it very much - also the name of the video if you know it. (He's a real piece of work, isn't he? Next thing you know, he'll be telling people to get rid of their kids because they take too much time, trouble, and MONEY.) Hope you're doing well, Katie Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 23, 1998 at 00:52:31 (EDT)
From: G's mom Email: None To: PAM Subject: I don't agree but.... Message: I think it is good to look at these types of issues because we really do not want to be guilty of 'two wrongs....' I think Mr. Rawat has a public figure/celebrity status and this is the sort of thing such people are commonly subjected to. Are building plans not a matter of public record anyway? I could be wrong on this but I thought that you could research such things in the county records or whatever. I have read about madonna's house and all sorts of celebrity houses. I really think that this is just the price of fame for him. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 23, 1998 at 04:41:13 (EDT)
From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: G's mom Subject: I don't agree but.... Message: I would also say that his house is almost a public place. Premies are invited to go and do service there any time. Of course you might have to wait a few days or weeks before you'll be allowed to do service 'inside', but I very well know quite some premies who DID. That's why everything gets to be known about him and his private life BTW!!! I would also add that he LOVES having gopies doing service inside his house! It's usually a shock for 'serious' premies going there to do some 'serious' service. Some have told me!! One said that it was disgusting for her, she felt that some premies had no respect for him, and that he LOVED it! What do you think about this? His house is a weird place, where there is almost constantly some drama going on. Anbd quite some premies are a part of it. How CAN YOU say it's private? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 23, 1998 at 14:43:51 (EDT)
From: VP Email: None To: G's mom Subject: Be a rhino, pam! house plans2 Message: Where I live plans are available at the county records office. I had to do some research for a committee and had to obtain house plans for several of my neighbors houses. Of course we did not put them on the net...but all are the homes of private citizens. They paid for these homes themselves. They were not built with solicited funds. Bring on the second story...if you want. But the point has been made anyway. He has a ton of f-----g money and the bottom floor reveals this for anyone who is still in question on this point. Selena is right, it is hard to look at the place and deny the truth about the BM. Regarding the dogs, I've said it before, if you can't run with the big dogs, get off of the porch! Just kidding. Pam, everyone has been flamed here from time to time. If you stay long enough you will eventually grow a tough skin like a rhino. When you are strong enough in your beliefs, you can post them here and another person's negative comment towards you won't matter so much. Either you will think they are full of shit, or you will learn something from what they said and make a change in your thinking. Some of the people here are in the infant stages in terms of their ego, ideas, etc. They have been suppressing themselves and their thoughts with M's help for a long time. They are overly sensitive. Cruelty doesn't do much to make these folks feel better about themselves. I am all for brutally HONEST evaluation of ideas that will help them think for themselves without cruelty. It is a fine line. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jul 22, 1998 at 08:12:06 (EDT)
From: Brian Email: brian@ex-premie.org To: Everyone Subject: Growing Pains Message: Got this email from Our Founder concerning the site funds and our status at the website server: Received notice from [them] that we exceeded their 2-Gigabyte monthly transfer allowance in June by .4 Gig and we have already done that for the month of July on July 21st. They say we are their 22nd busiest site out of the 6800 sites they administer, [and] that they anticipate we may soon be their busiest site out of 6800 sites if our Gig transfer rates continue to increase at the same rates that they have been! They recommended that we convert over to a $44.95/month rate that allows 4 Gig of transfer in order to economize. I recommend that we reconfigure for 4 Gig of transfer if you feel you can raise the donations. [Note: we had been paying 20 dollars (US) per month, but the cost of exceeding our limitations of output (what we send out over the net) are punative costs, and the account has been dwindling.] I wrote back saying that I have complete confidence in you folks to help out with the increased cost, and that Our Founder should go ahead and sign us up. We have the funds to make the change and be prepaid through October of this year, but I want to ensure that we're at least a full year ahead (fundraising being a nasty business). Many of you have already contacted me in the past asking how to contribute toward the cost of maintaining the site (the webmastering is free, but the server seems to require funds to operate). I'll be contacting those already on my list via email today. If you don't hear from me today and want to help contribute, email me for the details. The way it will work is that I'll need checks made out to the server and mailed to me - so that I can record the amount of money being sent in should the server forget to record any. I'll then forward the checks on to the server and they will credit our account for the amount sent in. I would prefer donations in 50 dollar (US) increments, but am very flexible. Should Maharaji wish to donate THOUSANDS toward this valuable mission, he is certainly welcome. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jul 22, 1998 at 09:01:30 (EDT)
From: A Total Idiot Email: as anonymous as you are ! To: Brian Subject: Growing Pains Message: Who is the mysterious 'Our Founder ' ? Why do you have so many Christian links to your Site if you are against organised cults !! So, you want donations too.. We dare you to post this message!! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jul 22, 1998 at 10:25:19 (EDT)
From: Brian Email: brian@ex-premie.org To: A Total Idiot Subject: Growing Pains Message: In keeping with Anon's request that you respect his having been using the handle before you began posting, I've edited the 'From' field of your post to better reflect the content of your post. You don't have to thank me. It was my very great pleasure. As for the 'anti-cult stance' that you perceive on the site, the focus has apparently narrowed beyond your ability to recognize it. Please refer to the topic of the Forum, located on the index page, for further clarification. Or to the picture on the Home page. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jul 22, 1998 at 12:46:44 (EDT)
From: pam Email: None To: Brian re anon post Subject: Growing Pains Message: You got the wrong person Brian. I (pam) decided to change my handle when Anon wrote me and asked me not to use anon. Why did you assume it was the person whom you assumed it was? Watch you step boy. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jul 22, 1998 at 10:25:50 (EDT)
From: Katie Email: None To: anon Subject: Growing Pains Message: Dear anon (wish you'd pick another pseudonym), Your message is on line - hope you are happy with it. Of course we need donations to keep the site running. Brian is a cab driver and I am a lab technician. If you think the two of us can fund the entire site plus pay for software, copies, postage, etc., you must have a lot more extra money than we do. As Brian pointed out, the site is growing very quickly, and we are now going to have to pay double the rate per month for our server. The few kind people who funded this in the past are not going to be able to keep doing so in the future. Our Founder (Scott) is the person who started the site, but chooses not to participate in it any more because of lack of time and other complicating factors. He has generously offered to continue making arrangements for the site with the site server. Who do you think he is, anyway? It's not a big secret. And finally, what 'Christian' links are you talking about? Give me a break. Regards from Katie Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jul 22, 1998 at 11:12:53 (EDT)
From: Gerry Email: None To: A Total Idiot Subject: Growing Pains Message: Dear ATI, woo woo, another conspiracy for our little minds to contemplate... Gee you sound a little concerned about cults, ie Christianity. Wasn't Jesus supposed to be a ''perfect Master'' or has that been revised in the new ''Knowledge Lite''? We dare you to post this message Are ''we'' a multiple? I like multiples... I just visited the links section, but couldn't find these many Christian links . Could you inform me? BTW do you know the difference between a religion and a cult? No, I didn't thinks so. But then, you're in a cult, so it would be a little difficult for you to have much discernment about anything, now wouldn't. PS I like your new ''handle''. It seems to suit you SO well. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jul 22, 1998 at 12:40:49 (EDT)
From: RT Email: nnaah To: the anon - anand Subject: Groaning Pain Message: Duh! Who IS this? Reveal yourSELF at once or 'we' will send in ATMAN!..... ATMAN....Faster than a speeding bullsh*t. More dourful than a loco-motive. Able to reach tall concepts with a single noun! And who, disquised as Park Vent, mild-mannered retorter for a quirk metropolitian web paper, fights a never ending tattle for Truth, Justice and the I mean I can way! regards, RT Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jul 24, 1998 at 02:01:01 (EDT)
From: bb Email: None To: RT Subject: Groaning Pain Message: Super Man RT! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jul 22, 1998 at 15:20:35 (EDT)
From: Mickey the Pharisee Email: mgdbach@ziplink.net To: A Total Idiot Subject: Growing Pains Message: A Total Idiot wrote: 'Why do you have so many Christian links to your Site if you are against organised cults !!' Sheesh, I'm a Christian, and I had some links for breakfast last Saturday, but I haven't been posting much, so I'm not sure what you're talking about. I'm pretty sure you don't know what you're talking about! Perhaps you should spend some time under your blanket squeezing your eyeballs before posting. Or maybe you should send Brian $100.00 as recompense for having to edit your post. Love in Christ, Michael Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jul 22, 1998 at 15:54:40 (EDT)
From: Mike Email: None To: A Total Idiot Subject: Growing Pains Message: ATI: Can 'we' say split-personality? Sure 'we' can! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jul 22, 1998 at 17:28:23 (EDT)
From: Carol Email: coopmtncarol@hotmail.com To: Brian Subject: Growing Pains Message: Brian, I'm willing to help support the continuance of this site. It costs less than the average visit to a counselor to contribute the $50 you suggest. I've gotten more benefit than a single visit to one has ever given me. I would suggest that you accept lower amounts from people who are less able to spare $50. Please send details to my e-mail address. Carol Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jul 22, 1998 at 19:01:14 (EDT)
From: po'folk Email: None To: Carol Subject: Growing Pains Message: Brian, Can only support in spirit. Livin' on welfare, raising kids, going to school ...must be a blues song in here somewhere. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jul 22, 1998 at 21:18:08 (EDT)
From: PaulR Email: pgrobinson@hotmail.com To: Brian Subject: Growing Pains Message: Count me in for a contribution too. I've made more progress in shaking off MJ in the last six weeks than I did in the previous 12 years. However I am not personally interested in dissing MJ, or in using this Forum as a means to avoid accounting for my own responsibilities in the matters around MJ etc. In fact I would like to be held MORE personally accountable. This site has been useful for me, and I am sure is too for most of the people who tune in even though they don't post. It's going to take some people several years of exposure to alternate ideas about MJ to help them achieve a balanced perspective. One thing we can all do therefore is to maintain a welcoming athmosphere to newcomers, and take a little time of introspection before coming to negative judgements about other perspectives. In an athmosphere of free debate, without intimidation, the most people will be able to come into personal fulfillment. $50 bucks is a little steep for me this month. Is there anyone who would like to split a contribution with me? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jul 22, 1998 at 23:31:57 (EDT)
From: Gerry Email: None To: PaulR Subject: Growing Pains Message: I've made more progress in shaking off MJ in the last six weeks than I did in the previous 12 years. Paul, This is good news! I wouldn't be to hard on myself if I were you about the responsibility thing. It was, after all, a very seductive proposition. I mean after all, we were supposed to have been disciples of the Master of our time, on the fast track to enlightenment. M couldn't possibly have produced and we were left holding the bag. He knows it, too, and has chosen to continue his course and to me, this means he has crossed the line and is deliberately choosing evil over good. For this he deserves IMHO, the constant monitoring and ''dissing'' he gets here. Paul, you sound concerned over how things are here on the forum and yet you've personally come a long way. I think it is ''perfect'' the way it is and it's sorta out of our hands anyway. I can't change the way other people are. I can only change how I respond (and that's a little ''iffy'' actually). In an athmosphere of free debate, without intimidation, the most people will be able to come into personal fulfillment. Paul, to me this says only that you are a little intimidated by what goes on here. Hey, you're not the Lone Ranger, there, bud. This place demands you look at what you say and how you say it. There are many lights being shined upon each post and we help each other with our critical and sometimes painful appraisal of what is being said. If you ask me I don't think a better format or tool could be designed to do what we are doing here... I'm glad you are here and helping us all with your own unique and valuable prospective. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 23, 1998 at 15:11:05 (EDT)
From: PaulR Email: pgrobinson@hotmail.com To: Gerry Subject: Growing Pains Message: I'm glad; you seem to understand a little. I (probably) agree with your statement, that GM has crossed the line and is deliberately continuing something he knows to be, or has been, hurtful to others for his own material gain. I agree that this would be evil. However this (or any other factors) in no way diminishes the responsibility that each person has to make good the wrongs we have done to others. So lets get on with fulfilling our own responsibilities and spend less time whining about what HE has done. ------------------------------- The fact that I may (or may not) be intimidated is irrelevant. The fact that a culture of intimidation exists here for some participants is very relevant. This forum is sometimes dominated by the personalities who INSIST that they learned nothing from GM, and these people then set themselves up to to attack/intimidate those who post an alternate view. personally I learned a lot from GM. I learned a lot from some premies too. I have learned from people here too; even you. I've been 25 years away from following GM, however I was married to a premie until 1985. No I am not in the slightest intimidated by the attackers, but rather bored (already). However many people come in here who are still (nominally at least) premies. They post some of their confusion here, maybe even expecting some support (how foolish), and are immediately attacked. There are NOT many lights being shone on most posts. What we have here currently is NOT an athmosphere of free debate. Indeed, I am sure that the tone of the debates here often serves to keep questioning premies participating, more thoroughly than the agya of his nibs ever could have. blessings to all the ex-s, oh well, all the premies too. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 23, 1998 at 15:54:54 (EDT)
From: Gerry Email: None To: PaulR Subject: groin pains Message: Paul you are really all over the place on this one. I'd like to issue a blanket, ''I disagree'' but that wouldn't do it would it? You are so far out in left field on some of these things that I'm getting tired shagging your foul balls. However this (or any other factors) in no way diminishes the responsibility that each person has to make good the wrongs we have done to others. Where did you get this crazy idea? What are you Jesus or something? We all do bad things to people. Are you going to run around making amends to every kid you punched in the nose in first grade? No, you just get on with your life. You say I'm sorry when you can and forget it. This ''amends thing'' (a new age concept if there ever was one) is a recipe for the nut house. The fact that I may (or may not) be intimidated is irrelevant. The fact that a culture of intimidation exists here for some participants is very relevant. Wrong again. In fact just the opposite is true. The fact that you think there is an atmosphere of intimidation is PROOF you feel intimidated. That's what is relevant. This forum is sometimes dominated by the personalities who INSIST that they learned nothing from GM, and these people then set themselves up to to attack/intimidate those who post an alternate view. What is there some conspiracy here or something? I DO insist I learned NOTHING of value from BM other than to be more aware of charlatans. Set them selves up to attack? Give me a break. If you mean by alternative views, people saying how groovy BB and K are than yeah I have to agree with you. Their opinions get hammered. They deserve it. There are NOT many lights being shone on most posts. Now you ARE pissing me off. There are plenty of smart and perceptive people and yes, some bite harder than others, but a LOT of light is being shed here. Why don't you enlighten us with some of your brilliance once in while. The ONLY whining I hear around here is YOU. What we have here currently is NOT an athmosphere of free debate. This is just a reflection (excuse the term) of your own intimidation and desire to control and censor what other people say. So let's all play by Paul's rules so he doesn't take HIS ball and go home. Come on Paul, you seem to know what's best for everybody else, so you lead the way. Indeed, I am sure that the tone of the debates here often serves to keep questioning premies participating, more thoroughly than the agya of his nibs ever could have. I'm glad you're so sure. Personally (as long as we're guessing here) I think they are intrigued, from the reports of the number of lurkers to this site and the gossip among premies. blessings to all the ex-s, oh well, all the premies too. Make mine chocolate, thanks. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jul 24, 1998 at 10:20:59 (EDT)
From: Francis W. Email: None To: Gerry Subject: groin pains Message: Dear Gerry, - Sooner or later we must all take responsibility for ourselves, don't you agree? Sure, we were all once devotees of the Largest Ego of the Universe, but what does a former devotee of the Largest Ego of the Universe do with the rest of his life? Sincerely, Francis Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jul 24, 1998 at 10:28:13 (EDT)
From: Gerry Email: None To: Francis W. Subject: groin pains Message: Hi Francis, The Largest Ego in the Universe. I like that. I don't know quite what you are getting at, here though, can you elaborate? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jul 24, 1998 at 10:57:08 (EDT)
From: Francis Email: None To: Gerry Subject: groin pains Message: Dear Gerry, - Sorry but I only get to post once every few months here and my time just ran out. A fellow former devotee of the Largest Ego of the Universe, Francis Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jul 24, 1998 at 11:52:12 (EDT)
From: Gerry Email: None To: Francis Subject: groin pains Message: OK and for the record... Sooner or later we must all take responsibility for ourselves, don't you agree? Never! Sure, we were all once devotees of the Largest Ego of the Universe, but what does a former devotee of the Largest Ego of the Universe do with the rest of his life? Eat, drink and be merry... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jul 24, 1998 at 18:29:23 (EDT)
From: Francis W. Email: warrrenpeas@mindless.com To: Gerry Subject: groin pains Message: Ok, Gerry, you got me to break my one posting every two month limit. But you said.... ( I ) Never (want to take responsibility for myself.) if I read you right. If you don't accept responsibility for your actions, how can you expect M. to take responsibility for his. (In order for me to keep to my limit, for any further discussion of this, please email me.) Francis Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 23, 1998 at 17:26:27 (EDT)
From: PaulR Email: None To: Gerry Subject: Growing Pains Message: It only comes in Vanilla. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 23, 1998 at 12:04:14 (EDT)
From: Selena Email: None To: PaulR Subject: Growing Pains Message: Hi PaulR I have several huge bills this month, 2 car registrations, lawyer... So I am needing to split a contribution. I can send $25 to Brian or Katie, can you do $25? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 23, 1998 at 12:34:22 (EDT)
From: Katie Email: None To: Selena and Paul R Subject: Growing Pains Message: Dear Selena, PaulR, and anyone else, According to Brian, although you might want to e-mail him to check, smaller contributions are OK. He just suggested the $50 as a guideline. If you haven't gotten an e-mail from him as to how to make out the check and where to send it, please e-mail him. Hope this helps. And thanks! Katie Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 23, 1998 at 14:42:18 (EDT)
From: PaulR Email: pgrobinson@hotmail.com To: Selena & Katie Subject: New shoes for a growing site. Message: Good idea Selena, we'll share a $50 contribution, but we can each send it directly to Brian. I received his address and instructions this morning. I'll forward to you if you need them. E-Mail me. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 23, 1998 at 15:48:21 (EDT)
From: Selena Email: None To: PaulR Subject: New shoes for a growing site. Message: Thanks Paul. I have the info from Brian so I'll just send a check for $25 Too bad the lawyer got all my money this month.... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 23, 1998 at 16:56:18 (EDT)
From: Katie Email: None To: PaulR Subject: Growing Pains - to PaulR Message: Hi Paul - Thanks so much for saying that the forum has helped you. I am sure Brian really appreciates it as well. I did want to make a few comments on the rest of your post. You said: However I am not personally interested in dissing MJ, or in using this Forum as a means to avoid accounting for my own responsibilities in the matters around MJ etc. In fact I would like to be held MORE personally accountable.... It's going to take some people several years of exposure to alternate ideas about MJ to help them achieve a balanced perspective. One thing we can all do therefore is to maintain a welcoming atmosphere to newcomers, and take a little time of introspection before coming to negative judgements about other perspectives. I agree with your last statement wholeheartedly. However, I think it is important to recognize that there are people here in various stages of healing from the trauma they experienced while following Maharaji. Some of these people are very angry and hurt and basically are not in a place where they can NOT come to negative judgements about premies or people who are 'on the fence'. I think it's important to provide an atmosphere where people can express that anger and hurt, and also where newcomers are welcomed as well. Anything you can do with the welcoming process would be appreciated. Brian and I wrote the forum introduction to warn some of the new people what they might be coming into, but it does help to have some words of welcome. Regarding responsibility: I do think it's important for people to take responsibility for their part of what happened to them in M's organization when they are ready. Sometimes it takes a while - I hope you can recognize that. However, I also believe that M needs to take responsibility for his part of what happened, but I also believe that we cannot wait for that (I don't personally think that it is ever going to happen). We've had many discussions on the forum about responsibility - I tend to take too much responsibility for things that have happened in my life, so these discussions have helped me a lot. I have read your post in the 'Ads' section and found it very moving. I just hope that you don't have the same problem that I do - that of taking too much responsibility. I still agonize about things from my past that I cannot make amends for now - I hope that you don't feel the same way. I guess I want to re-iterate one of my main points here which is that YOU can make a difference on the forum without trying to change the other people who post. The forum IS the people who post on it and I'm assuming that means you. Thanks again for your kind words about the forum. Regards from Katie Return to Index -:- Top of Index |