Ex-Premie.Org |
Forum III Archive # 2 | |
From: Apr 9, 1998 |
To: Apr 16, 1998 |
Page: 1 Of: 5 |
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Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 18:26:11 (EDT)
From: JW Email: None To: Everyone Subject: The Big M's Tour Message: I have been hearing rumors that the Big M is going to be touring the U.S. soon. I don't know the dates, but I think it is in May and June of this year. Apparently, premies are sending in for tickets as we speak. A 'donation' is expected at the door, or maybe that's sent in advance, I'm not sure. So the question is, does anyone know the dates of these little events? Are any exs planning on attending to see for themselves what is REALLY going on? Do any of you have any desire to go? Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 20:33:32 (EDT)
From: VP Email: None To: JW Subject: The Big M's Tour Message: JW, Did you see the recent post by Participant entitled 'Maharaji's work'? It included the tour schedule. There's a three day event in Miami in May that I was considering going to, but ONLY if I have company. (Any takers?) Another one there in June. I can't remember the other cities and dates. To attend, you go to a local video program and get seating arrangements, or I think you can call to get them as well. I wasn't too clear on this one. I also would like to know the price in advance as I just had to PAY a large sum of money to the IRS :( VP Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 21:43:20 (EDT)
From: VP Email: None To: JW Subject: Miami in July...or not Message: JW, I think the correct time for the second Miami program is really July. I posted June by mistake. I've got an idea...instead of going to a program, save your funds for a party next spring or summer with the ex-premies...date and location to be announced via emails. Eat, drink, be merry in one of America's finest resorts -g VP Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 15:31:23 (EDT)
From: JW Email: None To: VP Subject: Miami in July...or not Message: Miami in July. Doesn't that sound lovely? Anyone interested in a sauna or steam room? Well, if exs are having a party, here are my suggestions for location (DEFINITELY excluding Miami in July): 1. Vermont in early October 2. Hawaii in January (or any other month); 3. Park City Utah in February; 4. Washington D.C. in April; 5. San Francisco in September; 7. Vancouver in August; 8. New York in May; 9. Banff in June and 10. The Grand Tetons in July. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 16:05:41 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: JW Subject: Did DLM give air miles Message: I'm looking around for my statement and can't seem to find it anywhere. I figure I logged enough frequent flyer miles to take me AND a friend to the ex conference which, I might add, we could bill as the Most Insignificant Event in Human History. We could get Rennie Davis, BBJ (aka Satpal Maharaji d/b/a Guru Maharaj Ji) and maybe even Michael Nouri (The Ganster Chronicles, Flashdance, And it is Divine Selling And it is Divine [which only sounds like a country song]). Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 16:56:00 (EDT)
From: John Email: None To: JW Subject: hate to sound stupid but Message: Where's Banff? Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 17:08:45 (EDT)
From: JW Email: None To: John Subject: hate to sound stupid but Message: Banff is this wonderful place in the Canadian Rockies. It's near Lake Louise and it has a big beautiful hotel built in the 1800s and a hot springs. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 21:46:19 (EDT)
From: VP Email: None To: JW Subject: Miami in July...or not Message: JW and everyone, Actually, we already have an offer on a location-and it is at a resort, really swanky, but not too expensive, so anyone who wants to can come. You won't have to steal any cars or try to find Grace to get you the money....I can't post the location because it is MY HOUSE!! (And hell, most people on here don't know who I am.) I can't have everyone until next spring so if you guys want to do it before that, someone else will have to offer their digs. It's the least I can do for the info that kept me from kissing the feet of the divine one. I'll email everyone when we get close to the time if you guys and gals are interested in doing this... Jim can bring the Lord of the Universe video and some of the old music. JW, you bring the Tofu and change my mind. Robyn can bring her tan and some incense. John K. can bring his wife. I'll have the thing catered and it will be a great time for all. Only one thing, email invitations and no discussing my identity with premies or on the forum. A small price to pay for a great party. VP Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 23:27:11 (EDT)
From: CD Email: None To: JW Subject: The Big M's Tour Message: All the info is on the recording at: (818) 889-0500 Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 03:20:53 (EDT)
From: bill Email: None To: JW Subject: The Big fraud's Tour Message: I'd rather see the eldest brother of the lord. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 16:59:51 (EDT)
From: John Email: None To: bill Subject: No Bill No! Message: Bill, you can't be serious? Listen brother, you seen one perfect master, you seen em all! Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 23:53:56 (EDT)
From: bill Email: None To: John Subject: No Bill No! Message: Today I saw a list of the stages in the Masonic organization. There are 33 stages and the 5th is perfect master. Kind of low on the totem pole! Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 16:02:31 (EDT)
From: VP Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Attention, Brian: Message: Brian, For some strange reason, the last two writings I tried to post got cut off when they appeared on the forum. Not that they had that much content in them, but it's the principal of the thing! Just thought I should tell you, VP Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 18:37:37 (EDT)
From: eb Email: None To: Brian Subject: Attention, Brian: Message: The same thing happened to my post Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 18:53:03 (EDT)
From: Scott T. Email: None To: eb Subject: Same here, Brian: Message: Brian: Same here. I also got a message that said the message area contained no content when I tried to create a Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 19:07:44 (EDT)
From: Brian Email: brian@ex-premie.org To: VP Subject: aaak! Message: I re-broke something that I had fixed before. If this gets cut off, then I have to re-fix it again. It had to do with double-quote marks being used like 'this'. That should show up as single-quote marks being used. That's where you were cut off. It was supposed to translate them, but I guess I told it not to. I just told it to go ahead and start doing it again. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 19:09:53 (EDT)
From: Brian Email: brian@ex-premie.org To: Brian Subject: Okay, it's fixed... Message: That was the problem. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 19:20:55 (EDT)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Brian Subject: Okay, it's fixed... Message: Dear Brian, Those of us with no content didn't have the problem! Robyn Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 20:26:29 (EDT)
From: VP Email: None To: Brian Subject: Okay, it's fixed... Message: And one humbly replied, 'Thank you, webmaster.' Robyn, there wasn't really any content in mine either, only quotation marks:) Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 15:57:45 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Everyone Subject: My post below part right,Jack Message: Hey, I thought I'd alert some of you old-time ashramies to my post below ('You're partially right, Jack' in Vacol's 'My Confusion Part 12' thread). I'm just curious if any of you guys can relate to my little remembrance. Jim P.S. My current policy, by the way, (not that anyone cares but just so you know) is to chat with ex's and others and not premies. To all premies I will only say 'I know you are, but what am I?' which, you may recall, was the magic thread of spiritual reductionism that lead Ramakrishna (or someone with one of those weird names) to discover his true nature at age eight. At that age I, too, would often ask that question of my playmates but, not having the grace and good karma to be born, like Maharaji, as a fully realized soul who just didn't realize it, I never carried the inquiry to it's incisive culmination. Anyway, that's it. You a premie? Then you get a big 'I know you are, but what am I?' If you want any further discussion you can take your matter up with Katie. Either she'll talk to you herself or, more likely, she'll assign you a new ex to beat you over the head with common sense. If THAT's unsatisfactory, for whatever reason, go within inside and wait for further instructions. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 16:12:25 (EDT)
From: John K. Email: None To: Jim Subject: Take your show on the road Message: Yeah Jim, I read that and laughed out loud. I think you've got a future as a stand up comedian. I heard a korean woman comedian last night on the comedy channel and she was telling these jokes about what it was like to grow up korean,and it was very funny. I mean, hells bells, if she can make a living telling jokes about growing up korean, I'm sure an ex-cult comedian would do fine. There is an absolute bottomless pit of material waiting to be used. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 16:15:45 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: John K. Subject: First stop, Zagreb! Message: I would like to do a little tour and am looking for someone to help me set things up in Croatia. I would ask Mili but, as I've promised, the only thing I could ask him is 'I know you are, but what am I?' Would YOU ask him for me? Thanks, Jim Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 16:55:05 (EDT)
From: Mili Email: mili@cheerful.com To: Jim Subject: First stop, Zagreb! Message: Jim said: 'I know you are, but what am I?' That's easy, Jim. You are a piece of shit. Welcome to Zagreb. |
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Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 17:21:13 (EDT)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Mili Subject: First stop, Zagreb! Message: Mili, I hate to incourage but I laughed out loud at that one! Robyn Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 20:01:36 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Robyn Subject: Yes, Robyn, it sure was funny Message: Robyn, I have to agree, that Mili's a clever one. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 20:13:03 (EDT)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: to Jim Subject: Yes, Robyn, it sure was funny Message: Hey Jim, How did you write such a long subject I was trying to write a long one to eb about being the mom of teenagers but it wouldn't let me type the eb at the end. You are just TO GOOD! Robyn Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 20:16:32 (EDT)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Jim Subject: to Jim and Brian Message: Jim, this kooky forum didn't change the subject in my last post to you that said Robyn, yes that was really funny or something. That was also the 2nd time that I clicked on Submit your reply and the screen went blank. When I clicked on the back button it showed the yellow part of the compose reply screen with no fields shown or what I typed. Robyn Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 23:08:40 (EDT)
From: Brian Email: brian@ex-premie.org To: Robyn Subject: Change subject worked fine Message: this kooky forum didn't change the subject in my last post to you that said Robyn, yes that was really funny or something. You lost me on that one. So I guess I'll change the subject of this reply. That was also the 2nd time that I clicked on Submit your reply and the screen went blank. When I clicked on the back button it showed the yellow part of the compose reply screen with no fields shown or what I typed. This one is easier: When you hit BACK to return to a form, Netscape doesn't bother actually printing any of the input fields to the screen - figuring you probably remember what was there, maybe. Select 'View' on your menu, and click on 'Refresh' to tell it that you need a hint. Now back to question 1: the subject changed on this one, unless it doesn't in the index... Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 20:52:56 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Robyn Subject: The eb at the end Message: Robyn, You earnestly asked: 'Hey Jim, How did you write such a long subject I was trying to write a long one to eb about being the mom of teenagers but it wouldn't let me type the eb at the end. You are just TO GOOD! I wrote a long post not because, as you say, I'm 'to good.' Rather, ,,, hm, how can I say this? Robyn, you see, I've been posting here a LONG time. You've only started. I have no doubt that when you've been posting for a few more YEARS you, too, will be able to 'type the eb at the end' as you so wonderfully put it. My advice? Hang in there and, by all means, KEEP POSTING. If you really want it, and you're sincere within inside -- sincerity's everything -- you'll find your posts growing incredibly fast. One day, you'll look down and find that you can post amazingly long posts and yes, one day, if you keep it up, and IF you're sincere within inside for that love (or to know that place, the choice is yours), you'll find that you've actualy typed the eb at the end! Can anyone describe the feeling then? The feeling within inside in that place, the feeling of that love? Not just something tat goes 'bam, bam, bam' but something that goes 'bam, bam, bam within inside. Now, whee are those pictures? Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 21:05:37 (EDT)
From: I see I've prtrayed my- Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Jim Subject: self as a simpleton- Jimbo Message: Jim, The subject field, not strawberry fields, not the message field, the subject field! The one that says subject in front of it and is under the To field which is under the email address field and the neck bone is connected to the collar bone. Now I feel like Groucho Marx for goodness sake! Robyn Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 21:15:32 (EDT)
From: Scott T. Email: None To: I see I've prtrayed my- Subject: self as a simpleton- Jimbo Message: Robyn: Your diction is a good deal better than Groucho's. -Scott Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 17:54:13 (EDT)
From: Scott T. Email: None To: Mili Subject: Mili takes the bait. Message: Mili: Didn't you see this was a loaded question, like a gun that's designed to fire at the person holding it? It's like the identity operation in mathematics. Whatever you put in the blank applies to you... -Scott Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 19:58:19 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Mili Subject: It works! Message: This is incredible. Mili said: You are a piece of shit to which I simply say, I know you are but what am I? (I can't believe I'm doing this... no, not reciting childhood taunts, responding to Mili.) Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 17:41:00 (EDT)
From: JW Email: None To: John K. Subject: Take your show off topic Message: John, I think that commedian is Margaret Cho, who used to be a lesbian, but isn't anymore, but never explained what happened. I think she takes her cues from Maharaji. I have another questions for you. Loch Faircloth: I heard he is in trouble and might not get re-elected. Any truth to the rumor that this dim bulb who thinks Hillary murdered Vince Foster is going to go down in flames? Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 17:51:55 (EDT)
From: John Email: None To: JW Subject: Take your show off topic Message: Hate to be cynical but in the state that has put Jesse Helms in office for 20+ years does it really matter if Faircloth survives? This is a very conservative state, even though the area I live in filled with 'those damned yankees' most of the state is still stuck in the 19th century. Also, our state is currently in a political crisis because our congressional districts have to be re-drawn by decree just handed down from the supreme court. re; Margaret Cho, I have a friend who turned lesbian at 45. So, the opposite can also happen, right? Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 17:58:27 (EDT)
From: JW Email: None To: John Subject: Take your show off topic Message: Yeah, but Margaret Cho got her start presenting herself as a gay commedian in gay comedy clubs. Then, she got her own TV show and now acts like she is not a lesbian anymore with no explanation. She has been the subject of some ridicule in the press for that. Yes, Jesse Helms does seem to hold onto his seat, although just barely every time. I even sent money to Harvey Gantt both times he ran, but alas, it was not to be. But Loch Faircloth, I have read, is in real trouble and is up for re-election in the fall. Even Jesse Helms, who is a true fascist, wouldn't say the really stupid things Faircloth has. Has any Democrat announced against Faircloth? Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 19:04:42 (EDT)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: JW Subject: Take your show off topic Message: Joe and John, All this talk of comedy and politics reminds me of the vice presidential debates when that Texas millionare ran all I can think of is Perdu(that connects with the food thread) and I can't remember at all his running mates name but did you see that debate, now that was true comedy. I watched with a friend and we were laughing so hard we couldn't sit up and were crying(I'd LOVE a video of that!) and then of course Sat. Night Live did a take off and I just happened to catch it to! Saturday Night Live is usually way past my bed time to but it was just by grace that I caught it. Robyn Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 21:33:16 (EDT)
From: Ross Perot Email: None To: Robyn Subject: Take your show off topic Message: He looks just like the chicken man- Frank Perdue, but I never thought of that before. VP Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 09:41:04 (EDT)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: VP Subject: Ross Perot Message: Dear VP, This is how much I didn't remember his name. When I saw the name in the index I thought it was a new poster! Robyn Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 17:59:29 (EDT)
From: Scott T. Email: None To: John Subject: Take your show off topic Message: John: Some people just go wherever the competition is weak. Very opportunistic. -Scott Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 09:44:49 (EDT)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Scott T. Subject: Animal Crackers Message: Dear Scott, I don't like all of their movies but I love Animal Crackers and own a copy. I use to enjoy them before VCR's on holiday afternoons they often showed one of their movies. My kids won't watch their movies so once when they both had friends over to spend the night I told them all I wouldn't feed them unless they watched some of my favorite parts. It was all in fun and they found themselves laughing in spite of their prejiduces. Robyn Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 09:48:52 (EDT)
From: John Email: None To: Scott T. Subject: Take your show off topic Message: Ah, so THAT'S why you're here! heh heh heh Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 18:08:16 (EDT)
From: JW Email: None To: John Subject: Take your show off topic Message: Also John, it looks like quite a few Californians might be coming to Charlotte soon, as Bank of America is moving its headquarters there, from accross the street from my office. B of A honchos have been in meetings with the mayor, explaining that the effect on the city will be minimal, but I'm not sure he's buying it. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 19:16:56 (EDT)
From: eb Email: None To: Jim Subject: My post below part right,Jack Message: Jim, Very, very funny. Never having been in the Ashram, I appreciate knowing that I didn't miss much. It was scary reading, though. I felt like I was on the outside looking in, remembering that once upon a time I really thought like that. Spinal shivers. BTW, yes, do take your show on the road. You've got it down. eb Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 14:58:16 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Everyone Subject: M's Professional Conference Message: Hindu holy festival draws millions Wealthy gurus, farmers mingle in centuries-old bathing ritual Wednesday, April 15, 1998 By John Stackhouse HARIDWAR, India -- After a battle cry went out to Lord Shiva the preserver, a phalanx of naked Hindu holy men, smeared with ash and garlanded with marigolds, marched onto a blazing hot road and into the last great Hindu festival of the millennium. Led by trumpets, standard-bearers and idols carried in gilded chariots, the holy men and an estimated six million pilgrims made their way yesterday into the chilly Ganges River in the northern town of Haridwar. There were industrialists, cabinet ministers and entire villages of farmers. There were also millionaire gurus carried under silk canopies, hashish-crazed monks, rival sects threatening war against one another, and columns of riot police to keep the peace. 'This is the biggest example of religion and faith on Earth,' said local businessman Ashutosh Sharma, marvelling at the millions of pilgrims, all following their own scripts and liturgy as they chanted prayers, sang hymns and waded into the river. 'It is the best example of Indian culture.' The Kumbh Mela, the greatest of Hindu festivals, held every three years, reached its peak yesterday when the sun and three planets were aligned over Haridwar. It also remained unusually peaceful after rival sects agreed to a last-minute peace pact enforced by 15,000 police and paramilitary troops, and a brief spell of martial law in the holy town. A fight between rival Hindu groups in late March in Haridwar left more than 100 people injured. The ritual, which rotates among four holy towns, has been called the biggest religious gathering anywhere, and set a record for human gatherings in 1989, when it drew an estimated 12 million bathers to the city of Allahabad in northern India. Over recent days and nights, hundreds of thousands of pilgrims poured into Haridwar, a normally quiet town that marks the exit of the Ganges from the Himalayan foothills and entrance to the vast plains of northern India. The devotees arrived on the roofs of trains, in teeming buses and tractor carts, even by bicycle and on foot from across India and abroad. On the highway, traffic jams started 120 kilometres outside Haridwar and in some places turned a single-track road into nine lanes of cars, trucks, buses, jeeps, motorcycles and bullock carts that flowed off the highway into the adjoining fields and woods. 'If we dip in the Ganges, all our sins will be washed away,' said Pralad Rawat, 60, a farmer from central India who with most of his village travelled two days by bus to Haridwar. Like most of the six million pilgrims and holy men, members of Mr. Rawat's village slept on a patch of grass near the river. Thousands more slept on Haridwar's ghats and streets, which bustled through the night with pedestrians, many carrying their only belongings on their heads. To avoid the kind of stampedes, drownings and disease outbreaks that marred past Kumbh Melas, the Indian government spent $25-million this year in Haridwar building bridges, public toilets, 1.5 kilometres of new ghats (the entry points to the river) and lacing the town with enough lime and DDT to declare it 'fly free.' Dating back to as early as the second century B.C., the Kumbh Mela (Urn Festival) is Hinduism's greatest act of purification. Worshippers drop all social barriers and dip together three times in a sacred river. According to Hindu scriptures, Haridwar and the three other festival locations are believed to be the places where drops of elixir fell from an urn being transported to heaven. Starting in early January, the festival thrives on the purity of the Ganges and profanity of the monks. In tented camps set up around the city, 13 akharas (monastic orders dominated by militant Hindus) vie for pilgrims, money and status. The akhara saints publish posters and leaflets, and offer spiritual discussions, but most rely on the power of personality to win new adherents. 'I met him at the last Kumbh Mela,' said R. C. Kapur, a bank manager who follows Mahant Shankar Giri, one of India's richest holy men. 'After seeing him, I was in his grip, his spiritual grip.' Seated around Mahant Giri in a white canvas tent, Mr. Kapur and a dozen devotees smoked hashish pipes and sought their leader's blessings. One follower worked a cellphone on behalf of the mahant. A sadhu, smeared in ash and naked except for a Swiss watch, counted the rupees that people laid at the mahant's feet, most in 10- or 20-rupee (80-cent) donations but some in the thousands. (Those making large donations were allowed to videotape themselves touching the mahant's feet.) After an hour of blessings, the tent was so cloudy with hashish smoke as to sting the eyes. 'It helps us meditate,' Mr. Kapur, the bank manager, said, giggling. 'It centralizes your mind. Very helpful.' By dusk, the surrounding Juna Akhara camp, the mela's largest with some 20,000 holy men, had become a bizarre cross between a medieval circus and a Disney dharma. In one tent, Amar Bharti, a sadhu who says he has kept his right arm raised for 25 years, sat on display to attract initiates to his sect, which promotes extreme forms of penitence. His arm joints are locked, his fingers badly atrophied and the fingernails disfigured like talons (one curls around four times). 'It is a ritual started in ancient times,' explained Mr. Bharti, 60, who has a long, forked, grey beard. 'I don't want to achieve anything by it. I just want peace and prosperity for the whole world.' As he spoke, people dropped cigarette boxes, money and sweets at his feet, and watched a few minutes of a promotional video about sadhu life. 'I think I myself am a god,' Mr. Bharti continued, his right arm high in the air. 'I have 50 million followers, all over the universe.' Down a muddy lane through a colony of tents, another sadhu sat quietly. Very quietly. His followers said he has not spoken in 28 years. 'Words are lies,' they explained. Another naked holy man summoned passersby to watch him wrap his penis three times around a cane. He then called on a fellow sadhu to stand on the cane to show his renunciation of the physical. Across the lane, more of the devout leaned on padded swings to sleep so as not to break their decade-long devotion to remaining on their feet. 'My goal is to leave my body by my choice,' said a 23-year-old German. He now calls himself Rishi Bharti and wanders Haridwar naked, smeared with ash to symbolize his new life. 'I will die through meditation,' the German said. 'Get rid of my ego and leave my body, get rid of the cycle of rebirth.' Some sadhus wander the countryside as they have for centuries, carrying only beads, thread and a skull from which they eat and drink. But their lives, and the ancient Kumbh Mela festival, have not escaped the upheavals of modern India. While an army of monks prepared to march to the bathing ghats yesterday morning, their gurus sat in a temple office, doing what much of the rest of India was up to at the same time: watching a cricket match on television. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 20:48:50 (EDT)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Jim Subject: M's Professional Conference Message: Jim, I read this earlier today and found it very interesting. I had seen a blip of it on the news but don't really have time to 'watch' the news and the article had much detail not to mention the penis that was wrapped 3 TIMES around a staff! But really it is hard to imagine so many gurus. How can they all hold on to credibility? That one who just holds his arms up, who cares! I wonder if all his followers do the same. I noticed no one has posted under this thread and I just wanted to let you know it was appreciated! Robyn Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 20:59:13 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Robyn Subject: Open your eyes, dear girl Message: Robyn, dear friend. Many have posted under this thread as under all threads. For, as my Jewish friends like to ask, why is this thread any different? No, they're posting alright. It's YOU, Robyn, who NEEDS to see it that way. Ever heard of projection or quantum physics? Archaeology or anthropology (a deadly mix)? Ken Wilbur or Deepak Chopra? Maharaji or his brother, Guru Maharaj Ji? See what I mean? There, I think you're catching on! Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 21:09:05 (EDT)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Jim Subject: Open your eyes, dear girl Message: Jim, I think I need some sleep to deal with your wit anymore tonight. Now that your off the premie trail your going to put me on the rack. That's OK I can take it, honey. If I get to tired or cranky maybe I will be able to blast you! Robyn Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 04:09:51 (EDT)
From: bill Email: None To: Jim Subject: M's Professional Conference Message: this one should be available somewhere via link on the website for a sober reminder of the world of the hindu. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 07:04:31 (EDT)
From: Petrou Email: None To: Jim Subject: Jim the Rascist. Message: Now the true colours are coming out.Keep it coming Jim,your red neck is really showing.And you're supposed to be witty? Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 08:05:04 (EDT)
From: Scott T. Email: None To: Petrou Subject: Jim the Rascist. Message: Petrough: Can't get anyone to listen to you anymore, is that it? -Scott Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 08:33:44 (EDT)
From: VP Email: None To: Petrou Subject: Petrou the Christian Message: Look, why don't you just LAY OFF? Didn't you hear that Jim doesn't want to talk to you? Is that why you are on here flaming him? Because it's safe? Because you enjoy being mean? Are you the one who claims to be a Christian? Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 14:18:18 (EDT)
From: Toffee Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Sweet but sticky Message: Well...I see some things just never change! I haven't been here for a long time and have just quickly browsed over some of the posts, seeing some names I recognize and others I don't. If you quess who I am please keep it to yourself so I can remain here, okay? I see that premies are still contradicting themselves in the tradition that their master keeps. And Jim, finished yet one more time! Here is wonderful critical thinking in action, making this site one of the most intelligent ones on the web. Anyone considering being an aspirant will find themselves with a gut feeling they can't ignore after being here. Thank you premies and ex-premies alike. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 11:16:16 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Everyone Subject: FINISHED!! Message: Okay, I'm done talking with premies. For now anyway. I feel like a burnt out social worker, or maybe teacher for incorrigablly tough kids. I've had it. Parting words - I have so little respect for the current followers of Maharaji it's palpable. (How can nothing be palpable? Good question.) Anyway, Katie can be as sweet ashe wants with you, she never stoops so low as to actually hash this shit out. Those of us who do invariably come up fighting for breath. It's pretty stifling in the depths of the cultisphere. I do want to add this, I've got a feeling that a LOT more people check this page out than anyone imagines. People who are educated, even students of Comparative Religion (Petrou, you ARE a real dummy. Did you know that about yourself? Take it from me -- a friend you can trust -- you are a dimwit). Who knows what various stages of faith and doubt these people are in? All stripes, I'd imagine. Anyway, I think that people reading this page see an incredible cautionary tale in the behaviour of the premies here. I just can't believe that we get into actual discussions about stuff that is so sublimely foolish -- like, for example, whether or not a person who refuses to communicate with someone is accountable to them. These kinds of exchanges must be quite alarming for some premies who never knew what compromises of rationality would be needed to really defend their faith. The premies who post here show all that and they show it in spades. I think it's a good thing to continue to chat with premies just to flush them out. Plus, if you're in the mood for it, it's fun. But, right now, I've kind of had it. I can't keep setting myself up for the frustration of playing poker with cheaters even if my goal is to show others how much they cheat. It takes a toll on my patience and I need air. Vacol, Mili, Chris, Petrou (you absolute idiot, you!), all your other brethren in the Confederacy of Dunces, enjoy yourselves. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 11:31:41 (EDT)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Jim Subject: FINISHED!! Message: Dear Jim, I feel good that you have finally come to this point. You have this insatiable appetite for these discussions that can have no resolved outcome. Do you also enjoy going around with Jehovah Witnesses? As I said in a previous post I think that it would be enlightning to see a few premies go it with a few Jehovah Witnesses. I only hope that you will stay with the forum because I know your big thing was the back and forth with premies and I for one enjoy your presence here. If you do take a break from the forum I hope to see you back some time and wish you the best. Gee wizz, once I got beyond your prickly exterior I found you quite entertaining. Robyn Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 12:56:15 (EDT)
From: Scott T. Email: None To: Robyn Subject: FINISHED!! Message: Robyn: I have only one thing to say about confrontations between premies and JWs. After a couple of JWs canvassed me at my house when I was in my 'satsang mode' they used to cross to the other side of the street whenever they saw me coming. It is a mark of distinction to be so much more obnoxious than a JW that it induces their avoidance. I have to thank Maharaji for that, sometime. -Scott P.S. I finally finished my damn taxes. Feel as though I've survived brain surgery. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 13:19:20 (EDT)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Scott T. Subject: taxes Message: Dear Scott, I'm happy for you that you got that out of the way. Mine have been in, the refund check direct deposited and spent months ago. I guess that is when I know I've made a success of myself, when I put it all off until the last minute because I have to pay in! Now it is a joy! Robyn Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 13:30:37 (EDT)
From: Scott T. Email: None To: Robyn Subject: taxes Message: Robyn: I was putting it off because I was sure I'd have to pay. Did some consulting for which I had no withholding, and the gross was spent long ago. Turns out, I actually had a refund because my salaried income had withholding that was too high. Had I only known! -Scott Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 19:32:01 (EDT)
From: JW Email: None To: Robyn Subject: taxes Message: Robyn, people like you that are so diligent and ahead of schedule on things like taxes make me sick. I delivered my return to the post office today. Of course, I owed money, so there was no point in sending it any any sooner. It is only by the grace of the mortgage interest deduction that I didn't get killed on taxes. That, and the grace of the tas-deferred 401(K) and the grace that you can deduct state and local taxes, which in a high-tax state like California, is REALLY grace. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 19:48:33 (EDT)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: JW Subject: taxes Message: Joe, The pay off for you is that you can buy a house. I pay taxes but with an earned income credit I got a return. I usually am not so efficent either but when there is money at the end for a reward... I'm here at job 2 feeling very frustrated. I can't seem to get anything productive going here tonight! Thanks for the diversion or I'd be climbing the walls! With these 2 jobs this year I'll probably own next year if that makes you feel better! and I thought you were so nice. Robyn Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 12:36:05 (EDT)
From: JW Email: None To: Robyn Subject: taxes -- mood candles Message: Sorry Robyn, I was feeling frustrated too. Tax day and a bunch of deadlines were on me. I really am a nice guy, or at least I like to think so. I hope things have calmed down for you. I think my secretary believes I am a very uptight individual, because she is always giving me these 'mood candles' that are filled with herbs that are supposed to make you calm. They smell really strong so I haven't actually lit one. As a way to make amends, I'd be happy to send you one. Maybe you could light it at your job and feel the calming effects. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 16:25:09 (EDT)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: JW Subject: taxes -- mood candles Message: Dear JW, I wasn't really upset with you at all. I am realizing that the written word is very easily misleading! I wrote volumes when I was a kid at home, that is how I made it through. When I write I think it makes perfect sense but see that is far from the case many times. I'v also been writing a book a bit at a time for a couple of years, kind of in the style of Ermma Bombeck and know I'll have to really critique it for these types of things. I guess that's what an editor is for. A mood candle sounds good for my day job. It is a VERY dysfunctional place. A friend did a spirit releasment on the place. The jury is still out on the subject for me. They found a cowboy in my foot!!!! Anyway they said the furniture here was in a time warp. Well that explains everything! But one of the controlling issues has been that I am the only one not allowed to sit in a comfortable chair. There are 5 of them here that no one uses but I have been specifically told I can't sit in them! The smell would also help with this one guy here who smells like rancid oil to the point of making me nausious even though I have told him repeatedly and he says he appreciates my telling him. God, can August and the end of this job come to soon! Robyn Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 21:24:58 (EDT)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Scott T. Subject: Risking my reputation! Message: Scott, I hate to admit this but I just re-read your post and mine that you responded to and now I understand. You guys have to bear with me I'M TIRED! I thought you wrote JW by mistake and really meant to write Jim. Now I see it was Jehovah Witnesses you were refering to. Thanks I wasn't really sure who'd win in that situation. I have a few good JW stories but they are to complex for the forum and to off topic I'm sure. I going home to bed now. 'See' you all tomorrow. Robyn Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 07:10:29 (EDT)
From: Petrou Email: None To: Jim Subject: FINISHED!! Message: This is typical talk of the most illogical person on this link,not to mention,vulgar and even rascist.Thanks Jim for making my job so much easier.Your self image is all wrong,you are bitter and hence you are unable to use logic at all.You are truly finished. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 23:58:27 (EDT)
From: bill Email: None To: Jim Subject: FINISHED!! Message: HEY! How can you slam that incredible work of fun, The Confederacy of Dunces is superb. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 11:03:36 (EDT)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Everyone, Katie & JW Subject: No shoes/tofu & chips JW Message: Katie and Joe, Hey Joe, I don't think I put your name in the subject when I was reading the bad eggs thread and just looked at the inactive messages to see if you responded to my post with the details of making that tofu and chips w/ tartar sauce. My daughter who is still living at home is a strict vegitarian and I am less strict but I am always looking for different, easy, nutritious things to make and that sounded good. Do you remember how to make it? My favorite thing to use tofu for is tacos, even my non vegitarian friends really like it. As far as the no shoes thing, I first encountered it at the premie house where I eventually lived but went to hear sat sang there before and of course we had to take our shoes off. I had no problem with it except that I had these boots that had hooks and laces and had to undo and redo them each visit. Taking shoes off is simply a good way to cut down on cleaning but in the house I rent now my land lady, a friend of mine for 20 years, worships the light blue carpet in the livingroom and NO ONE can go in there with shoes on, company or not. Of course the dogs go in there with dirty bodies and muddy feet except in extreem cases of mud, shit, or dead smell but then I worship them, sorry Jim. Robyn Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 14:02:50 (EDT)
From: JW Email: None To: Robyn Subject: No shoes/tofu & chips JW Message: Sorry Robyn, I don't know the recipe for the tofu with tartar sauce. I thought it was really good at the time. It was basically large chunks of firm tofu, that I think were coated in seasoned bread crumbs and baked. I think they also made their own tartar sauce. When I lived in Miami as part of IHQ, the premies had their own tofu company, that made really good tofu. Hence, we ate a lot of tofu. About the only tofu recipe I still use from my premie days, is a tofu/curry stir fry, which we used to have often for breakfast in the Chicago ashram. I mix in tofu, vegetables, sliced almonds, sunflower seeds, and sometimes bean sprouts, and use curry, cumin, and tamari. It's sauteed and sometimes I serve it over rice. I've had a few brunches at my house and guests at first are wary but usually end up really liking the tofu dish. Believe it or not, despite the strong spices, the dish goes very well with a sweeter-type white wine. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 14:18:23 (EDT)
From: Rick Email: None To: JW and Robyn Subject: No shoes/tofu & chips JW Message: Hi Robyn, I don't know if you have any big health food stores in your area, but on the west coast there is a frozen packaged version of the breaded tofu that JW describes. I don't have any in the house at the moment or I could give you the brand name. It comes in a dark green box about the size of a video tape. There's about 15 pieces that kind of look like chicken nuggets. You just take them out of the freezer and heat them for about 10 minutes. I use ketchup, but if you like tarter sauce you can mix Nayonnaise or mayonnaise and sweet relish and get pretty close. Rick Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 15:32:00 (EDT)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Rick Subject: Rick Message: Thanks Rick, We have a health food store that has been successful for years here but they don't have that. I'll try it on my own though. Robyn Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 15:29:28 (EDT)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: JW Subject: No shoes/tofu & chips JW Message: Thanks Joe, I'm having a gathering soon and thought I'd just make breakfast foods, I don't have much time to make fancy breakfasts, although for the record I do make cream of wheat, oat meal, etc each morning for myself and my daughter before she goes to school. Sundays are my only day home and usually she stays over at friends, her day off from her paid postion as dog sitter! So it seems silly to do it just for myself. I will add this tofu dish to the menu and I will try to figure out the other. Do you find that tofu is best if well frozen and then thawed before using it in a recipe, I have. Robyn Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 16:02:09 (EDT)
From: John K. Email: None To: Robyn Subject: this post will offend! sorry! Message: I know this won't win me any popularity contest, but I have to say that a true ex would never eat tofu! Come on, people, tofu is tasteless! You've brainwashed yourselves into thinking it's 'good' for you, or that it tastes 'good' - we're here to enjoy life, and you can't do that and eat tofu. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 16:06:10 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: John K. Subject: You're right, John Message: John, Tofu is the Chancey _____ of foodstuffs. You know, the Peter Sellars character in 'Being There'? Simple, innocent, it likes to watch. But, honestly, can you really say that frozen tofu doesn't taste at least as good as your favorite premium ice cream? Careful, John, I've got the quotes. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 16:07:14 (EDT)
From: VP Email: None To: John K. Subject: Tofu is narly! Message: John K, I'm with you:) I only heard about Tofu through my premie relatives. Give me some steak and chocolate!! VP How do you spell narly? Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 16:48:34 (EDT)
From: Just wanna pickle, and Email: None To: VP Subject: to ride my motor cickle...sigh Message: VP: Still have my spies out trying to get that recipe for cream of dill pickle soup. It's a LOT better than it sounds. Hope I don't have to buy it though. -Scott T. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 20:42:45 (EDT)
From: VP Email: None To: Just wanna pickle, and Subject: to ride my motor cickle...sigh Message: Scott, That actually sounds really good to me. The tofu thing is a texture problem for me. Besides, it's fattening and I need to watch that sort of thing these days. Low-fat tofu? Ug! VP Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 16:58:11 (EDT)
From: JW Email: None To: John K. Subject: this post will offend! sorry! Message: Oh, please. Tofu has it's place, if it's prepared well. It's a good source of protein, but it is also high in fat, although you can now buy 'reduced fat' tofu. Of course, in San Francisco, where we have a natural foods store and a juice bar on every corner,you can buy ANYTHING, no matter how nutty it is. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 17:03:54 (EDT)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: John K. Subject: this post will offend! sorry! Message: Dear John, Tofu is tasteless that is why if you mix it with good stuff it tastes good! Also as I said above I think you have to freeze it for a couple days at least and then thaw and CRUMBLE not cut. The thing is it really is high in fat I hear but it is quick and easy for my 16 yr old to deal with after track practice when I'm not there to make dinner. She would live on spagetti! Robyn Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 17:19:59 (EDT)
From: John K. Email: None To: Robyn Subject: eat, drink, and be merry! Message: Robyn and Joe: You forget I was a premie for 10 years, AND I am married to a vegetarian - you don't have to tell me how to make tofu edible. The point is this: why eat something that you have to doctor up so much just to make it edible! Hmmmmmm? Ex's, the truth hurts. I can tell I've hit a sore spot. Look, I know for years we all supported each other on this tofu subject, it was us against the world. The world claimed tofu was yuck, we claimed...well...whatever, you know...that it's a good source of protein. But hey! Is that why we eat? To get a good source of protein? No way, we eat to enjoy the taste of the food!! Let me ask you this, if you were on death row, and you had one more meal, would you ask for tofu? Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 17:50:40 (EDT)
From: JW Email: None To: John K. Subject: eat, drink, and be merry! Message: Actually John, I rarely eat tofu, but I don't consider it tasteless either. It just has a mild taste -- okay, VERY mild taste. And I find that sometimes I have to eat, not just for taste, but to get protein. I've been into counting the grams of protein lately. Does anyone know anything about Creatine Monohydrate? One heaping teaspoon dissolved in fruit juice is supposed to give you the creatine of 2.2 pounds of raw liver!!! YUM! It's supposedly helpful in producing muscle. It's a good thing for us skinny vegetarians. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 17:56:12 (EDT)
From: John K. Email: None To: JW Subject: moderation in all things! Message: equivalent to 2.2lbs of liver? I'd be very nervous about something like that. Sounds like a helluva lot of iron to be consuming, and doesn't excessive iron do something wierd to one of the organs? Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 18:05:41 (EDT)
From: JW Email: None To: John K. Subject: moderation in all things! Message: It has no iron in it. It's creatine only, so there is no iron problem. You buy it in health food stores. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 19:16:00 (EDT)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: John K. Subject: moderation in all things! Message: John, What organ! Robyn Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 18:07:12 (EDT)
From: Scott T. Email: None To: JW Subject: eat, drink, and be merry! Message: JW: Uhh... what's creatine? Is it like Ovaltine? -Scott Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 18:11:10 (EDT)
From: JW Email: None To: Scott T. Subject: eat, drink, and be merry! Message: Supposedly creatine is an element that aids in the development of muscle tissue. Somehow I don't think ovaltine does quite the same thing. It looks like salt, with slightly smaller granules and it is tasteless in apple juice. Lots of people I know who are into exercise are using it. Must say, I've been taking it for about three weeks and it does seem to work. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 18:33:31 (EDT)
From: Scott T. Email: None To: JW Subject: eat, drink, and be merry! Message: JW: I'm sold. Now, if I could just do something about this bugeoning belt tightener... -Scott Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 19:19:25 (EDT)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Scott T. Subject: eat, drink, and be merry! Message: To all you nuts, It was probably developed to up beef production or something equally creepy. If you start craving grazing Joe Stop using it! As far as my last meal I might just as well go for the steak! I don't drink because I am a diabetic and so I think I'd go for broke and get hammered to. Is this supposed to be uplifting conversation? Opps Robyn Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 04:22:53 (EDT)
From: Vacol Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Grace. Message: Thankyou Katie....you were right. I am sorry to disappoint those who think I'm really confused because I can live with the difficult position of supporting Maharaji and be critical at the same time. I am able to be grey......and not be either black or white. So if this too difficult for some of you to comprehend or accept ....so be it! For me the topic of Grace is fraught with difficulties. I do not believe that M is the dispenser of Grace.....and I have personally heard M knock that idea on the head. Grace is not a type of hype. Grace is not an experience that only premies who practice knowledge have. So what is Grace? It is so simple,....have you not experienced something so simple and yet so profound, which is not a hallucination or a fantasy.? A sense of almost indescribable lightness.....clarity....power.....peace....feelings of unburdenedness .....GRACE..... ;of course words cannot do justice to such experiences. One is lifted beyond the normally fragmented daily living...and for a moment, an hour, a day ....whatever..one is transported, transformed into another realm ......where everything is the same ,but it isn't. Ones perceptions undergo a transformation too......trees are alive...leaves are greener.....sky is bluer....One can hardly bear the fragile beauty of it sometimes. The mind melts for a while and one enters into a relationship with a more wonderful feeling....too mystical is it? or have you known such moments but now view them as deluded emotional hypes? This experience can be quite contagious and being around those who are really at one with that place can be misunderstood easily as one person transmitting the experience to another. But I personally don't believe that . Everything is contagious in a sense....it is just the dynamics of interaction.....sometimes on subtle levels . As for my ideas on spiritual evolution.....what is at the core of this rather complex subject is.....that spirit evolves through the creation. So all other levels of evolutional theory are influenced by the spiritual dynamis. Maharaji has always been for me great because he offers a way to get in touch with this spiritual essense.....but the degree that individuals can experience and understand this varies greately....as with everything else......I am not pulling rank by saying this....just stating a fact. If for some of you there are more profound ways to understand self and the universe , good luck to you.....I am not claiming infallibility.....nor will I return the degrading and ignorent ways some of you try to put me and other premies into a nice little box......and Maharaji for that matter. Again I thank you Katie for your sensitivity....and I'll leave it at that for now. Regards Vacol Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 07:24:14 (EDT)
From: Petrou Email: None To: Vacol Subject: Grace. Message: That was pretty good Vacol.I still know GMJ to be one of the best teachers around even though as I have said I am definitely Christian and enjoy the study of religions as a discipline.Not a lot of them get into the concept of grace with the firm grasp of what it is that GMJ has.The importance of a living teacher is really powerful and somehow living teachers represent in a microcosmic way the Macrocosm(GOD).There is a lot of proof of this if you look at the history of religions when great teachers were briefly around at the inception and remarkable things occured. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 08:46:09 (EDT)
From: Scott T. Email: None To: Vacol Subject: You can't have it both ways. Message: Vacol: I believe that Maharaji knows this experience and wants others to know it too. I also believe that this Grace is the spiritual power/energy sustaining our lives. and, I do not believe that M is the dispenser of Grace As I said, I'm sorry to have misread your previous post, but THESE two statements ARE incompatible. The sense of the first passage is that Knowledge is Grace and that Maharaji wants others to know it. The sense of the second is that he does not dispense it. Maharaji would hardly have a pot to piss in, let alone a golden crapper, if he did not dispense Knowledge. And if K is not G who gives a damn! You can decide to not take an argumentative position on this if you want, but not without sacrificing your credibility I'm afraid. 'Grey' (tory spelling) just doesn't cut it sometimes. What you have is a personal attachment to Maharaji that doesn't allow you to acknowledge the obvious. If you want to consider an alternative position take a look at my 'Maharajia Apologia' in the recent archives. But that position is not 'grey' regarding Maharaji's 'special' status, and anyway I have reservations about it. -Scott Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 09:36:46 (EDT)
From: Mili Email: milivoj@geocities.com To: Scott T. Subject: You can't have it both ways. Message: Yeah, Scott, I knew it - it's all 'academic' to you. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 09:16:06 (EDT)
From: Scott T. Email: None To: Vacol Subject: The Road to Lhasa Message: Vacol: I have to say something else that has been eating at me about the intransigence of premies regarding M. I had a roommate from China who took the position that Tibet has historically been a Chinese province, and that the Tibetans are a scheming often warlike people whom China had the right to annex. This is the 'party-line' in Peking and throughout China, and my roommate regarded any alternative position as indefensible. He didn't bother to consider evidence, or even to believe the fairly obvious distinction between the pacifism of Rinpoche and the Dalai Lama and his rendition of them. I see his intransigence as akin to the meatheaded intransigence of premies, and I have to say that the only cure for this is rationality. There is no radical interpretivist position that could keep the Tibetans out of the clutches of the Chinese, or restore them to their legitimate place in history. I don't see that there's any way to side with the Chinese, even a little bit. Withholding friendship from my roommate was the least I could do. The inability of premies to deal with a rational argument, or to weight the evidence appropriately (persistently calling valid evidence 'rumors' for instance) seems virtually identical to what the Chinese have done regarding Tibet, especially with respect to their current attempt to impose their own secularized standards on the choice of Rinpoche's successor. They will probably prevail in this sacrilege to some extent because people just get fed up dealing with such density, and because no one can afford to impose rationality at the point of a gun. They have even been able to impose their warped standards on Hollywood recently, so don't expect to see any more movies like 'Kundun' or 'Seven Years in Tibet.' Shows you what a bald-faced prevarication can accomplish. -Scott Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 09:39:43 (EDT)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Scott T. Subject: The Road to Lhasa Message: Scott, Very good correlation between Chinese history with Tebit and premies thought processes. Articulate! Robyn Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 09:45:29 (EDT)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Vacol Subject: Grace. Message: Vacol, Is Keith your real name? Anyway I am very thankful for any experiences in my life that I think would fall under your term, Grace. I see them as signs of what our human bodies, consciences are capable of and/or as signs from nature or dreams as guides for our lives. I have had all manner of such experiences from momentary glimses to prolonged physical experiences and metally clarifing understandings. It is these things that make life worth living for me along with all the day to day stuff but it is the extraordinary that keeps life facinating. It just doesn't have anything to do with M. I also continue to use K in my life without connecting that experience to M and it still works! Robyn Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 09:48:49 (EDT)
From: Scott T. Email: None To: Robyn Subject: Grace. Message: Robyn: Very eloquent testemony about Grace. Thanks. -Scott Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 12:20:09 (EDT)
From: eb Email: None To: Vacol Subject: Grace. Message: Vacol, Grace is my favorite state. Maharaji showed me how to get there in meditation just as my husband shows me the way during great sex and my golden retriever, Roxie, guides me every afternoon when I get home. Sure, I can get there on my own, but it's kind of fun to share it. I'm actually quite grateful to Maharaji (apologies to all the ex's who are cringing at this point) for reminding me of that state--I experienced grace a lot when I was a child despite an adverse family environment. But while telling me not to be attached to the secular world, Maharaji cultivated an addiction in me, and I thought that he was the source of the grace. I'm grateful to Maharaji as a recovering alcoholic is a 'grateful alcoholic'. Maharaji freed me from the bonds of Mormonism through capturing my heart--I think it was a bit like Pavlov's dog conditioning: I'd see a picture and start drooling. My addiction to him stopped working for me when my soul was not satisfied with the constraints of being a premie. It was so limiting. Love to all, eb Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 15:20:58 (EDT)
From: Vacol Email: None To: eb Subject: Grace. Message: eb, I can easily relate to your post. All you say finds no adversary in me. Personally I find that M still helps to remind me and foster a focus on those principles that lead to the experience of grace.....as do certain other people , certain books, nature,...meditating,....and sometimes even sharing 'stuff' on the internet. See, for me this is not about Maharaji.....or even Knowledge.....but rather about a way of experiencing and understanding life. Maharaji just happens to be a human-being that has made it possible for me to meditate in a way that works for me .....and one of many who's words inspire me. Best wishes......Vacol Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, Apr 14, 1998 at 20:17:50 (EDT)
From: Vacol Email: None To: Webmaster Brian Subject: Is free speech tolerated here Message: Brian, is it true that Bruce(brian 2) has been locked out of this forum. If so ,why? Do you ever lock out premies ? Regards Vacol Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, Apr 14, 1998 at 20:22:58 (EDT)
From: Katie Email: petkat@mail.trib.net To: Vacol Subject: Is free speech tolerated here Message: Dear Vacol - (I'm not Brian, but I can address this issue, I think). Bruce is the first person who has ever been locked out of the forum. The reason he was locked out is not because he's a premie - it's because he posted under the name 'brian' repeatedly. This is one of the rules of the forum - DON'T post under other people's names! (The other rule is DON'T make violent threats!) There is a forum introduction which you may have seen that outlines these things. Brian and others did warn Bruce, but he chose to keep posting under the name 'brian'. So he got locked out. I hope you can understand that this is not censorship. Regards from Katie Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, Apr 14, 1998 at 20:28:11 (EDT)
From: Vacol Email: None To: Katie Subject: Is free speech tolerated here Message: I accept that explaination, Katie, and will then ask .....will Bruce be allowed back if he doesn't use the name Brian ? What was his violent threat? Vacol Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, Apr 14, 1998 at 20:35:11 (EDT)
From: Katie Email: petkat@mail.trib.net To: Vacol Subject: Is free speech tolerated here Message: Hi Vacol - Brian will unblock Bruce's ISP, but I am not sure when (Brian's a pretty nice guy - really). I feel that it's really important for people not to use each other's names while posting - I am sure you can imagine how you would feel if someone posted something you didn't agree with under the name 'Vacol'. Also, Bruce didn't make a violent threat - I didn't mean to imply that at all - I was just saying that that was the other thing that could get someone blocked. I am sure there are more things, but I'd rather not find out what they are! Here's the URL for the pre-forum page, in case anyone hasn't seen it: http://www.ex-premie.org/pages/preforum.htm Katie Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, Apr 14, 1998 at 21:15:47 (EDT)
From: David Email: djulian@cix.compulink.co.uk To: Katie Subject: Is free speech tolerated here Message: There could be some confusion here about what constitutes using another person's name. Brian, Jim, David etc are common names and there's bound to be other people who may want to post with those names. Are you suggesting that names should be unique as in email addresses or just that it's out of order to purposely pretend to be another poster. When I began posting here I was often confused with David Stirling (and still am) which is why I've added all sorts of silly things to my name from time to time to prevent this confusion. There may truly be another Brian or Jim waiting in the wings ready to post. Are you suggesting they add something to their name to prevent confusion? Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, Apr 14, 1998 at 21:43:10 (EDT)
From: Katie Email: petkat@mail.trib.net To: David Subject: Is free speech tolerated here Message: Yes, David. Obviously, Brian wouldn't block someone's ISP the first time they posted as 'Jim', or 'David', or 'Brian'. And the person posting as such, innocently, would usually realize that they might be being confused with someone else. And lots of times, one can tell who someone is by the e-mail address (which is why I got confused by your two e-mail addresses!). But otherwise, people can just use common sense (like John C. and John K., for example). Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, Apr 14, 1998 at 21:47:02 (EDT)
From: Katie Email: None To: Sir David the cheesehead Subject: P.S. Message: And in answer to your question - yes, the problem comes when people purposefully pretend to be other people (or willfully appropriate other people's names without making clear that they are doing so!) I should have made this clear above. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, Apr 14, 1998 at 22:41:13 (EDT)
From: Brian Email: brian@ex-premie.org To: David Subject: Is free speech tolerated here Message: I'll address all those questions above at one time in this reply to David's post. When this forum started out, there was Jim and a Scott posting here. They didn't pretend to be each other, and there was no confusion. When I started posting I used the name Brian because no one else was using it. I didn't have to be told that using 'Jim' or 'Scott' would cause confusion. But nothing was stopping me from doing it except my own common sense. Most people who post here exercise some restraint and adult-like behavior, even though they may argue with each other like children at times. They read for a while before posting and get some idea of who is who here, who is a premie, who isn't, etc. Bruce did the same thing. Then he chose Bruce. There was no confusion as to which Bruce he was. I don't know from his posts whether his name is Bruce or not. Nobody knows from mine if Brian is my real name. It doesn't matter in the end, as long as we can keep each other straight without having to impliment some password scheme (which I don't want to do). Bruce wrote me email on April 9 requesting that I remove the Kanguru Hop page from the site. This page, as you probably know, consists of an article that appeared in a Brisbane, Australia, newspaper in an attempt to cover the events at Maharaji's Conference Center last fall. I talked to Katie on the phone that night and his request was one of the things we discussed. The next morning I read the forum and found that someone had posted under the name 'brian' (Easter Quiz). I checked the netprint of the person who posted and found that it was the same as Bruce's. I blew his cover in the forum, and then responded via email: Friday, April 10, 1998 Bruce - The page stays. The phrase 'Kanguru Hop', BTW, is mine. The Australian press would probably have done a better job of covering the event had they only been invited in. Send Maharaji some email suggesting that they be allowed to cover these 'incredible' events in the future. I'm sure you will get a response that conveys his deep personal concern for his devotees' viewpoints. Brian Then I posted my 'position' on the whole thing in Kangaru Corrections. The 'brian' posts continued, and only after I implimented the block did I see that the poster was moving away from using my name directly. I figured 'Let him stew'. I have not blocked anyone from posting here before. The previous forum-master did a few times, although there were no blocks in place when I took over. I did not block for content in this case, so the question regarding free speech is moot. Nobody is making anyone post here. Nobody is picking the names they post under. Bruce picked Bruce, not me. But he hopefully is now aware that I view his having chosen the name of the person who protects not only the forum but the offending page as being far less than a coincidence. Posts using someone else's name have been deleted in the past, and these would have been if the software was in place. Had they continued, the IP would have been blocked. I'll lift the block in a few days (probably less) when I am certain that the editing functions for the forum are working correctly and don't threaten the message database in any way. I opened this forum before I had them written because I saw a need to protect the posts better than the idiots at Paradise were doing. The archiver wasn't written at the time, so I got that done first. But when I do lift the block, posts from that IP had better not contain my or anyone else's name, or I'll view it as further infantile behavior and replace the block. Like I told him - it's a big alphabet. He's still been able to read in the meantime. Maybe I'm nobody special, and I don't claim to be. But when I spend my free time trying to write and maintain the only forum on the internet where people can speak freely regarding Maharaji and his cult, and then find that someone is using that forum in a way that thumbs their nose at me personally, I believe that they need a little time out to think about it. Call it enforcing Maharaji's agya if you want. When premies standup and directly confront Maharaji for his having exerted pressure through his organization to shut down a censored site (premie.com) where they could post their deep love for him - then I'll begin to respect them as people who can think for themselves and take responsibility for their actions. Until then, I'll have to be their Forum Daddy if they need it. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, Apr 14, 1998 at 23:05:07 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Brian Subject: Is free speech tolerated here Message: Bravo, senor Brian. I DO look forward to the next premie page, if and when. Or maybe something from Bal Bahgwan Ji (d/b/a 'Guru Maharaj Ji'). Hey, I wonder if anyone's ever bothered to search to see if Bhole Ji has a web site. Sorry, I don't normally laugh at my own jokes, but, well, that really cracks me up. How 'bout a Raja Ji page? Hey, that's funny too! Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 01:24:17 (EDT)
From: Paula Email: None To: Brian Subject: Is free speech tolerated here Message: I don't know how these things work...(internet identities)....but....I suppose that if a person use 2 providers, he/she has 2 internet identities, isn't it? that is my case.... I use 4 different providers to connect on Internet, and I might have many numbers.... and... just in case....please don't make a mistake about this (don't block me!!)..... thank you very much... Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 14:02:39 (EDT)
From: Brian Email: brian@ex-premie.org To: Brian Subject: The editor is in place Message: The block on that IP has been lifted. (And the goofy Preview page has been fixed.) Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 00:12:13 (EDT)
From: Bruce Email: phoenix@b024.aone.net.au To: Brian,Katie Subject: Is free speech tolerated here Message: Dear Brian and Katie, Some responses to the 'brian' business. Firstly, I had not read the forum rules and I am not familiar with chat room etiquette, having never done this before. Secondly, I wanted to raise the issue of the treatment of Jesus by his various contemporaries. To me there are a great many similarities to the current issues of this forum. I wanted to do his in a somewhat light hearted manner, as some may see such discussions as an attack. Some friends were here, and we came up with the Life of Brian idea. (for those reading this who didn't see the movie, Brian was Jesus) I also wanted some anonymity for a whole host of reasons, so my friend Jim (yes a real name) suggested 'Brian'. (to go with the thread itself) I chose 'brian' as opposed to 'Brian' to differentiate between this poster and the forum master!. There was no attempt on my part to 'have a go at you', Brian. I do concede that you could have interpreted it this way though and perhaps it was a bad choice on my part. I do want to say that an impartial referee would not have warned me of a rule infringement with the post You're Babbling, Bruce. This also destroys my right to anonymity. Also, 'brian' could easily been one of a number of people staying at my house at that time. Come to think of it, there was both a Brian and a Jim here.! A more appropriate 'warning' would have been; 'brian, you are infringing a forum rule by using this name.Refer to forum preamble and desist, otherwise you will bo blocked from posting.' I do not feel that any such clear warning was given. Regarding infantile behaviour, well that is a matter of opinion. There are no doubt many thousands of people who regard this web site as a totally irresponsible act of sabotage, which potentially threatens not only M.s work, but also his and his families security. This is serious business, and you people could be held responsible. More on this later. By the way, this is not a threat, but a plea for further discussions,preferably not in big letters on the net. Katie, thanks for your polite assistance and consideration. I accept your view that a forum has value for people who want to share their stories etc re M. however I'd don't like the biased billboard out the front of the chatroom, and I am not in favour of public discussions. We may call each other fruitcakes, but there are some real nutters out there. I have posted here for specific purposes, not so much to chat. I figured my contribution wouldn't make things any worse. I expect that the request for premies to stay off the net is for security reasons, not control or censorship. You seem to be a lot more reasonable than some of the others in this little band. The war has to stop before real damage is done. Just my opinion. I've given up scrapping with Jim. Waste of time I feel. Perhaps we should talk? Vacol, thanks for your concern. After 3 days, Bruce has arisen!!! Regards, Bruce Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 02:06:33 (EDT)
From: Katie Email: petkat@mail.trib.net To: Bruce Subject: Is free speech tolerated here Message: Dear Bruce - Thanks for the compliment on 'my polite assistance and consideration'. I do try to be courteous. You make a good point about giving someone a specific warning before blocking their ISP, and I'll take that into consideration (I can't speak for Brian, but he lets me make some of those decisions). Usually when a problem like that arises, we just delete the postings and say why we did so - we didn't have that capability this time, but we do now. (By the way, a lot of the EX-premies love the movie 'Life of Brian', too.) You made some other statements that I'd like to address. I hope you still consider me considerate when I'm done! I should say that I have the flu and am running a fever, so may be less coherent than usual. You said: There are no doubt many thousands of people who regard this web site as a totally irresponsible act of sabotage, which potentially threatens not only M.s work, but also his and his families security. This is serious business, and you people could be held responsible. More on this later. I agree that the web site may potentially threaten M's work, which in my view may not be a bad thing. I think he should be accountable for some of the things he has done and said, or allowed people to do and say in his name, in the past. I do NOT see how this web site is 'a totally irresponsible act of sabotage', nor how it could threaten Maharaji and his family's security. If you care to elucidate, I'd be happy to hear you out. The statement that 'you people could be held responsible' has been repeated ad infinitum on here by Mili and other premies. If you're speaking as an official representative of Maharaji (for example, one of his lawyers), then I think we'd certainly be willing to hear you out. So far no one claiming to represent Maharaji personally has contacted the webmaster (as far as I know, anyway.) Otherwise, it's hard for me to to take this this warning seriously. If there is a flat-out lie about M on the site, then I'd like to know it. If not, I'd be interested in what in particular on the site is so objectionable and threatening to M's personal security. If you don't want to discuss this on site, and you want to e-mail me, please feel free to do so. Please also bear in mind that I can't speak for Brian. Although I do assist him with the site, he makes the final decisions on site content. Regards from Katie Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 08:31:54 (EDT)
From: Brian Email: brian@ex-premie.org To: Bruce Subject: Is free speech tolerated here Message: I also wanted some anonymity for a whole host of reasons, so my friend Jim (yes a real name) suggested 'Brian'. (to go with the thread itself) I chose 'brian' as opposed to 'Brian' to differentiate between this poster and the forum master!. There was no attempt on my part to 'have a go at you', Brian. I do concede that you could have interpreted it this way though and perhaps it was a bad choice on my part. The first post I saw from you here concerned the Kanguru Hop page. As I explained above, I took the timing and name choice as being beyond coincidence when it followed so closely behind your email to me regarding that page. I usually respond right away to mail, but decided to hold off on that one to reflect on the points you raised in your letter and to discuss it with someone you recognize as a voice of reason before deciding either way. When I took over the site in January I removed some pages that were of dubious content, so it was possible that this one might require re-evaluation. Since you wrote under my name so soon, I assumed that your frustration with that page was a contributing factor. I do want to say that an impartial referee would not have warned me of a rule infringement with the post You're Babbling, Bruce. This also destroys my right to anonymity. Also, 'brian' could easily been one of a number of people staying at my house at that time. Come to think of it, there was both a Brian and a Jim here.! A more appropriate 'warning' would have been: 'brian, you are infringing a forum rule by using this name.Refer to forum preamble and desist, otherwise you will bo blocked from posting.' I do not feel that any such clear warning was given. These are fair points you make here. You have to understand that I was aware of how little I could actually do at the time since this software is use-if-you-write and it wasn't written. We had the ability to block IPs on Paradise (Forum II), but we (Katie and I) hadn't used it. Even after installing a quick patch on the program to block your IP, I didn't really know that it was working until a few days had passed and the posts had stopped. Regarding using the name 'brian', the name 'Brian' was also used. Like anyone else living, I can hear my name spoken in a jumble of sounds, see my face in any picture, and spot my name on a page of words very easily. I need to be able to spot and read posts here that are meant to call my attention to problems that may exist - many of which I personally cause via bugs in the code. I don't come close to reading every post here, as there is a lot to keep me busy, so I rely on my name appearing as a sign that something needs my attention. As for people staying at your house, I'm not sure what the laws are in Australia but in the US you would be held responsible for people making obscene phone calls on your phone and you would find the phone company cutting off your service. Same with the internet. Loan someone your connection or your car and you assume the liablility for what results. Regarding infantile behaviour, well that is a matter of opinion. I would say that it was a matter of interpretation. I have to make the calls and not all of them will be correct. I know my track record in this world better than anyone and have made many mistakes. Taking on the responsibility for this or any other site requires that decisions be made. Some will be good and others bad. Just comes with the job is all. Had there not been an IP match on the first post, I would have assumed it was a new poster and explained the rules to that person - respecting their anonymity. I know of people here posting under various names (other than bb I mean) and don't interfere with them doing that. But I don't know of any others that posted under another person's name without those posts being deleted, which wasn't an option in this case. Let's just say that it was a misunderstanding and is in the past. I'm glad to see that you are not angry (at least now) about it and understand how your actions contributed to my response. I have never blocked anyone before and really didn't want to do it in this case. I just wanted the errant posts to stop immediately. The editing functions in place allow us to change more than just the body of the posts, which was a limitation of Paradise. I have made the user name unknown a special reserved name that nobody can post under here (unless THAT's broken too). That is what we'll change errant names to in the future. Unless the content needs editing, in which case the entire post/sub-thread may be deleted instead. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 03:10:14 (EDT)
From: bill Email: None To: Brian Subject: free speech Message: We are VERY lucky to have you. thanks again. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 03:56:31 (EDT)
From: Paula Email: None To: bill Subject: free speech Message: Don't say 'WE are very lucky to have you'..... I din't feel that way.. as a matter of fact, I hate democracy sometimes... Also, in this case, what you call 'free speech' actually is cheating and disrespecting people here. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 08:13:10 (EDT)
From: Scott T. Email: None To: Paula Subject: free speech Message: Paula: A couple of definitions: Democracy: 'Power of the People' Demosophia: 'Wisdom of the People' The first, without the second, can become 'Tyranny of the Majority.' -Scott Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 20:39:27 (EDT)
From: Paula Email: None To: Scott T. Subject: free speech Message: Good definitions, Scott.... That is the major problem about democracy nowadays. If you wanna take a look about all definitions of democracy.... take a look at 'Politics Dictionary' wrote by Norberto Bobbio, who is considered the best Political Scientist of nowadays. There is a lot of challenges related to this kind of government. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 08:51:16 (EDT)
From: Brian Email: brian@ex-premie.org To: Paula Subject: free speech Message: in this case, what you call 'free speech' actually is cheating and disrespecting people here. Maybe you could elaborate on this more. You are being allowed to view the 'disrespecting' words of others here. How is this 'cheating' people? They are being allowed to post 'disrepecting' words. Would it be fairer if their words were censored as they were on premie.com? When you click on the button, your words are available for people all around the world to read. And to read freely. This is something that you would like to see changed? Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 20:35:15 (EDT)
From: Paula Email: None To: Brian Subject: free speech Message: Hi Brian... I wrote that message, just to express my feelings and I was using free speech. Of course, you are right when you say I could elabore it better. I used 'cheating' and 'disrespecting' related to Bruce case... because all the time I read 'brian' messages I thought it was you, not him, and I got confused. I felt disrepected, I don`t know about you. Also, I used the word 'cheating' because he was using 2 personalities/identities. Maybe it was not the best word to describe it, but I don`t know another words that could describe better my point of view. I know that what I am telling here can bring to this site a big discussion about multiple identities and nicknames on Internet. Too many points of view can be elaborated, and many people around the world are thinking about this question. I think that people can say whatever they want, but they have to be responsable for their words. I mean... free speech is wonderful, but (I think) if something is said.... someone did it. In this case, someone was using 2 different identities and people were reading it seriously, as if it was 2 people. To have freedom, you have to be responsible. When you read Vacol, you know that it is not his real name. But you can notice he is speaking his mind.... very contradictory sometimes, but still, he is not kidding. When you read Jim, it does not matter if he is Jim or not, but it matters to know how his mind works. And they bring interesting issues, topics, even being completely different people. What about Bruce? Can you take it seriously? One is the 'big ego' (brian) and the other one is the 'good kanguroo guy' (Bruce) that wants the article out. How can people believe in someone that has to use 2 different identities? Is it possible to believe in his excuses? I just tried to make things clear about my post. I know that if a debate starts about this, no one will get anywhere, and I would not like to answer posts about virtual identities. I know I have freedom to not read Bruce's messages, and that is what I am doing. Also, I think you did the right thing,because no one will never know if he will use another provider and enter as another nameS. And I feel sad about people like Bruce. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, Apr 14, 1998 at 20:03:46 (EDT)
From: Vacol Email: None To: Everyone Subject: My response to all Message: Okay....there's a bit to cover. Firstly I would like to say sorry. My Testimony 14 was overstating certain points. I never intended to tarnish all ex's or others with the same brush. Anon, JW , Katie(friv), ..and others ....sorry! Jimji, I am not sorry to! But please hear me out. I want to share something with you and really welcome comment. I do totally believe in Grace. Grace ,to me is the experience of knowledge....at a certain frequency(can't think of a better word right now). I believe that Maharaji knows this experience and wants others to know it too. I also believe that this Grace is the spiritual power/energy sustaining our lives. Now comes the BUT.....but, Maharaji also encourages and influences a type of mind-set. And I feel you have every right to examine that mind-set and criticise it . I too feel to (and am doing) examine and criticise the mind-set/philosophy/psychology/belief-system(bs) that is generated by M. Really........you ex's who experienced so much around M and were influenced by M's very concrete words have every right to vent your anger. So can we all stop tarnishing each other......all ex's are so and so......and all premies are so and so. I will die for THE TRUTH!!! I am not dependent on M for my life. From what I can understand from my present imperfect perspective is that despite any positive things I might feel about M , he should have attended to helping those like yourselves to at least adjust to a new way of understanding ......who M really is.....what K really is....and should have acknowledged his errors and corrected them . Truly, there are serious issues raised on this forum that until discovering you guys I never had encountered before. So.....what I am trying to do is to get a perspective on the issue of how Grace and belief-system intertwine with each other. M and premies tend to believe that what M speaks about is beyond the level of belief-system.........beyond philosophical speculation. But what I perceive is that the messages about who Maharaji is and how we should regard him are quite subtle. I have no fixed responses yet....I am looking.....What reason is there to allow people to kiss his feet? to buy all the paraphanalia (t-shirts, pens, framed photos, etc)? I intend to respond to some of the specific points made to me ..... time is at a premium at the moment ; but I do respect where you guys are coming from more than I've given the impression about. So sorry again for my overly simplistic and over-casual testimony 14. Regards Vacol Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, Apr 14, 1998 at 23:31:55 (EDT)
From: Scott T. Email: None To: Vacol Subject: My response to all Message: Vacol (Keith): I also believe that this Grace is the spiritual power/energy sustaining our lives. and I am not dependent on M for my life. Need I point out that these two statements are inconsistent? It is little wonder that you are angry. Your tone seems conciliatory, but in point of fact you need to get some things resolved. We can't do it for you. It is time to take a break. Decide which of these two things you believe and stop fooling yourself, and trying to fool us. -Scott Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, Apr 14, 1998 at 23:47:46 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Scott T. Subject: I second that, Scott Message: Scott's absolutely right, Kieth, You're running us poor ex-premies ragged with your contradictions. 'Premie,' as the Patriarch said, 'police thyself!' Kieth, I'm afraid that if you keep posting here you's going to get all caught up in defending 'Vacol' the man of a million sincere but flagrant contradictions. That itself will by your trip. You'll become inured to the embarrassment you must still feel for making a bit of a fool of yourself. Hey, that embarrassment's good! But, if you just keep running the same script again and again, it won't have an instructive effect. Please, Kieth, take my advice adn take a break. Track down the Guru Papers and maybe read a bit about evolutionary psychology. That's just my little recipe. You say you're a 'spiritual evolutionist.' What really have you read about evolution? It's a fascinating and profound FACT which deserves some real study. No, it's not just intuitive. My two cents worth. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, Apr 14, 1998 at 23:49:43 (EDT)
From: Katie Email: petkat@mail.trib.net To: Scott T. and Vacol Subject: My response to all Message: Scott and Vacol - I may be wrong, but my impression is that Vacol was using the word 'Grace' to refer to the Higher Power (God, the I AM, whatever you want to call it), rather than to Maharaji's grace in particular. Katie By the way, Vacol, thank you for reading and hearing our responses. I appreciate it. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 00:45:16 (EDT)
From: Scott T. Email: None To: Katie Subject: My mistake. Message: Katie: I believe that Maharaji knows this experience and wants others to know it too. I also believe that this Grace is the spiritual power/energy sustaining our lives. Sorry Vacol, I misread 'this' as 'his.' My mistake. It's those little tiny letters again. I need a new monitor. The two statements are not directly contradictory. However I need to ask why Maharaji has any special 'mission' to help others know the experience of Knowledge that in any way justifies his enormous acquisitiveness? The implication is that 'Grace' and 'M' are united somehow. The first sentence refers to 'this experience' while the second refers to 'this Grace.' If Maharaji does not have some sort of franchise on these items then why do I care what he wants others to know? Is he a great speaker or something? Does he exemplify the Grace in his life somehow? Suppose everyone gains access to this experience? Will it solve all the world's problems? I don't think this is a foregone conclusion. If not, then how could it be 'the Grace that is sustaining our lives?' If so, then let's get with it. Guru Scott. Guru Katie. Guru Joe. Guru David. Premie Jim. (Hey, we can't all be chiefs.) The more the merrier. We've discovered our calling! What's missing here is that Vacol, I think, still believes MJ has a special status with respect to Knowledge. It's painful to see him bent in all these directions at once trying to justify this. We've all been there. So, the bottom line is that if Vacol is not dependent on MJ for his life then all he has to do is decide exactly how special Maharaji is. He can then, if he wants, wean himself from the concept that Maharaji's status is justified. I therefor second Jim's suggestion that he read 'The Guru Papers.' I don't think there is much more to be gained here through debate. If and when he makes his decision he might find support rather than argument. -Scott Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 00:45:01 (EDT)
From: Paula Email: None To: Vacol Subject: My response to all Message: You know what Vacol? you are the only premie here I still read posts. And also.... while reading your last post, I got a great idea to make my M.A. thesis..... thank you.... Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 07:37:48 (EDT)
From: Petrou Email: None To: Vacol Subject: My response to all Message: Thankyou Vacol for that message to all. Never forget that it was GMJ that really hammered grace to us. The only thing wrong about the whole GMJ scene was the lack of emphasis on ethical and moral issues.All that other stuff about perfect masters etc is only a Hindu influenced or cultural effect. Things GMJ said when he was 11 etc were spot on if you extract the Hindu effect and extraneous claims probably forced on him from an early age.Not many 11 year olds with such general wisdom about life around!! I've noticed quite a few people here dredging things GMJ said when he was 11 to 16 :some 25 years ago!!If we were quoted at that age I wonder how we would sound:99% gibberish. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 10:29:51 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Petrou Subject: Petrou - Message: Things GMJ said when he was 11 etc were spot on if you extract the Hindu effect and extraneous claims probably forced on him from an early age.Not many 11 year olds with such general wisdom about life around!! I've noticed quite a few people here dredging things GMJ said when he was 11 to 16 :some 25 years ago!!If we were quoted at that age I wonder how we would sound:99% gibberish. Probably the stupidest rationalization I've ever seen, Petrou. Tell me, how do you think these claims were 'forced on' Maharaji? Could tht be the same process that made him a 'Perfect Master' to begin with? I have to say, you SEEM to be astoundingly stupid. Now, I hasten to add that maybe you're just spouting some cultural defects and force-fed bullshit. There's jsut no way of telling, is there? From here you just seem REALLY DUMB, like Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 13:43:41 (EDT)
From: JW Email: None To: Petrou Subject: My response to all Message: Petrou, even if you are correct that the Big M didn't know what he was doing or saying when he was younger (which I don't buy), at some point it must have dawned on him that what he was doing and saying was really dumb, and, if he had any intelligence or insight whatsoever, he also knew that perhaps thousands of people relied on that dumb Hindu stuff and some got their lives damaged in the process, or, in the least, they were operating under a BIG misunderstanding. So, if he had any ethics, morals or integrity, which I would suggest are ESSENTIAL attributes of someone who is supposed to be a spiritual guide or 'master,' shouldn't he have acknowledged that that stuff was dumb, take responsibility for the damage that stuff did to his followers, and come out publicly and say he is NOT god, NOT the perfect master, and really is a glorified meditation teacher? Since he's never done that, he fraudulently allows followers from the 70s to go on believing it, and people who have gotten involved since to not know what the hell he is. In my opinion, he does this to retain as many of those devotees as possible from the 70s 'god period' along with the money they supply buying his videos, tote bags, pictures, chocolates and other trinkets, and who might also respond to 'fundraisers,' to keep him living in the style to which he has become accustomed. Can you think of ANY other reason, other than pathological self-denial, why he wouldn't make those acknowledgements and take that responsibility? Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 15:54:49 (EDT)
From: VP Email: None To: JW Subject: My response to JW & Petrou Message: JW, You're right. Petrou, I'm sure that I said a lot of gibberish as a child, but then again I never claimed to be God or a Perfect Master. I never told anyone to surrender their lives to me or to give up sex or eggs. I never made claims that messed with other people's lives when I was a child. M did and either he knew exactly what he was doing, or he was following orders from his family. If the latter were true, don't you think he would have apologized and made his explanations by now? I can sure understand not telling the new recruits about his past, but not explaining to the old premies...keeping people in the dark sure keeps them wondering, doesn't it? Mystery is the key ingredient to keeping the old timers coming back for more. To say, Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 15:59:24 (EDT)
From: VP Email: None To: VP Subject: My response to JW & Petrou Message: Hey, I was robbed!! Continued...For M to say, Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 16:09:10 (EDT)
From: VP Email: None To: VP Subject: My response to JW & Petrou Message: Technical difficulties...never mind. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 06:54:17 (EDT)
From: Petrou Email: None To: VP Subject: My response to JW & Petrou Message: You've got to read all the messages to really appreciate all the arguments for and against.I have never suffered at all from anything GMJ has said even when he was a child.There has always been great meaning there.If you care to study the Hindu way of culture you can get into even the god stuff without feeling at all compromised.Its a shame that white anglo saxon society has such a hold over the average person's perception.Its like missing out on the appreciation of American Indian culture or the study of ethnic custom. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 13:50:08 (EDT)
From: JW Email: None To: Petrou Subject: My response to JW & Petrou Message: Petrou, get a clue. No one is denouncing Hindu culture here. The problem is that Maharaji hoisted it onto a lot of people, but placing HIMSELF in the middle of it, essentially as the role of Krishna, which was a dishonest and fraudulent thing to do. As a result, thousands chucked their lives, gave him everything they had and followed him. For many people, this caused significant damage to their careers, relationships with their families and friends, caused them to live lives they hated, and all the while Maharaji got very rich. Now, maybe nothing Maharaji ever did damaged YOU, but I'm sure you have enough christian empathy to see that many others didn't fare so well. Or, are you SO self-centered that what happens to your fellow humans is of no concern to you? Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, Apr 14, 1998 at 18:20:49 (EDT)
From: JW Email: None To: Everyone Subject: How To Propogate Message: Okay, okay new topic: Propogation of the holy knowledge. The other day, while driving accross the bridge, I was listening to NPR and they had someone from the Smithsonian Institution commenting on some subject or other. Anyway, it reminded me that in 1979, a bunch of us in Washington DC went down to the mall in front of the capiol, right in front of the Smithsonian, and did 'propogation.' At that time, Ira Woods was espousing the need to go to parks with a picture of Guru Maharaj Ji mounted on a stand, and yell satsang. Ira said when he told Maharaji about it, Maharaji said that 'that is the way knowledge will be spread.' So, guess what, this is what the truly devoted were expected to do. Ira was up in Boston doing this, and the other communities were expected to do the same. As CC, I got permits from the parks department and DC, being the together community it was, even had a portable sound system set up so that we could scream even farther. Anyway, that was the preferred method of 'propogation' at the time. We also went at lunchtime to Farragut Square in downtown DC where lots of office workers ate lunch, and did the same thing. [For those of you who don't know, Commodore Farragut was a naval hero from the Civil War on the side of the Union. His statue is in the middle of the square.] It was humiliating. One day a TV crew came and took pictures and that night on the news was a short news item entitled 'Lunch at Farragut Square' that made the premies look like the raving cult members we were. I got a copy of the video and sent it to Ira asking if he STILL felt this was a good idea and would he please show it to Maharaji. Ira said he was afraid to show it to the Big M. I recall not one person who ever came to one of our ghastly little introductory programs as a result of this 'outreach.' I remember another time, in 1981, Big M did a tour and the programs were supposed to be 'introductory.' We all invited our acquaintances and co-workers to a program at Davies Symphony Hall in San Francisco. I invited a couple of people I worked with, but M came out and was just as incoherent as he always was, and never even said what 'IT' was that he was offering to people. I also noticed how condescending he was, something that was not missed by my friends. One person asked him a question about nuclear war and he told her it was a total waste of time to be involved in the anti-nuclear movement, which was a hot topic at the time. It didn't reflect to well on him; just made him sound like he was cranky and pissed of about something. My guests were underwhelmed. I do recall that a few people came to a follow-up program, but they also fell to the wayside in short order. Somehow, to people who didn't already have some belief or faith in him, Maharaji just failed to glow or something, or just failed to relate to these people. This is really when I started questioning things about him. If he is who he is supposed to be, how come very nice sincere people just don't see it? And what WAS it that I saw, anyway? Anyhow, I understand that nowadays there is almost no propogation. If you know a premie, he or she might invite you to a video. Since I find that premies nowadays are pretty tight-lipped, almost embarrassed about following M, it doesn't appear to me that M is even interested in doing propogation, except to carry on the facade to the premies, who delude themselves into thinking that some big breakthrough in reaching people is just around the corner. We used to always think that also. Does anyone have any comments on this? Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, Apr 14, 1998 at 18:32:34 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: JW Subject: It's all I really want to do Message: Joe, If Maharaji would just stoke the blast furnaces of 'parachar' again, don't you think I'd be there? I LIVE to stand in front of a microphone again and talk extemporaneously about nothing save and except the miracle that 'here we all are' and that this energy that makes this p.a. work is also making us work and is allowing me to even say these words. Oh for that glory again. Just before Christmas, I was in Vancouver and stopped by the YMCA where we used to rent a room once a week. The place had been redone, the room wasn't even there anymore. Man, those were heady days alright. I really miss them. I can understand how the Heaven's Gate survivors feel (or felt until they bopped themselves too). Oh Maharaji, why couldn't you have really been the Lord? Think how neat it would have been to have truly been one of the first new, devotees of the amazing golden age? Or Zen Master Rama. I would have liked to have been him too. Or Tommy Lee... no, not Tommy Lee. But Zen Master Rama, or any other white cult leader. Why can't I be one too? Huh? I never did nothing. Why not, huh? Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, Apr 14, 1998 at 18:35:04 (EDT)
From: Katie Email: petkat@mail.trib.net To: JW Subject: How To Propagate Message: Hi Joe - Your story about screaming satsang in DC (my home town) was very funny. Wish I would have been there! You should have gone to Dupont Circle - might have actually gotten some takers, although maybe not the kind you wanted. I never met Ira, but after everyone's stories about him, I am starting to feel very sorry for him. I hope he's in a better situation now. The only thing I know about propagation these days is that there is a premie who works in the same unit as I do now, and he brings in videos of M that some of my co-workers have watched. The only videos that I know he's given to people are the 4-minute ones. I guess these are a very short introduction and relatively bland. I asked one guy who watched one what it was like, and he said that he thought that it was OK, but all he really wanted to know was the knowledge techniques (the premie guy has so far only targeted devout Christians for some reason. None of them are interested in Maharaji at all). This premie also shows videos at his house (not a central location), but I don't know anyone who has ever gone. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, Apr 14, 1998 at 19:40:33 (EDT)
From: eb Email: None To: JW Subject: How To Propogate Message: Great topic. Once, way back in '73, we turned Mom's home into a premie house. We had a big blue picture of 13-year old Maharaji on our altar, and gave satsang to all who came to visit. An Inuit in the Navy showed up one nite and listened very politely for hours. Afterwards, we asked the Inuit what he thought about Maharaji, the boy in the picture. And the Inuit said, 'Oh, I thought that was grandmother.' (Maybe you had to be there, but it was funny at the time. I think we were tripping). My dearest friend is a premie. She took me to a video a few months ago. Yawn. I would never be an aspirant nowadays because I could never get hooked on such boring divel. We wanted to save the world and find God, dammit. It's beyond my comprehension how the cult continues to operate. I looked for the Greatest Magician but found a fraud--and not a very good one at that. eb Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 19:23:55 (EDT)
From: JW Email: None To: eb Subject: How To Propogate Message: eb: Was your Mom living there, when you turned her house into a 'premie house?' Was your mom into Guru Maharaj Ji and receive knowledge? That's a great story about the picture. It reminds me how we had in some cases these HUGE gold-framed pictures of Maharaj Ji. First they were on altars, and then we put them up on the wall. Since the ashrams had little or no other furniture, it made those huge pictures stand out even more. Does your friend who is a premie know how you feel about it and that you post here? I can see how that could be hard. I don't have any premie friends, but I do run into one or two now and again. One guy, who I lived in the ashram with, lives in my neighborhood. We say hello to each other, but I always get the impression he is almost afraid to talk to me. I try to put him at ease, but he acts like I might give him a disease or something. I know what you mean about the videos. I watched one last fall, by myself. It was really boring, but at the same time it was SO familiar that it was kind of creepy. Also, I realized that the Big M doesn't have much to say, and it makes me feel ridiculous for ever having seen anything in him. I keep having this feeling: WHAT was I THINKING? Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, Apr 14, 1998 at 20:05:54 (EDT)
From: John K. Email: None To: JW Subject: How Not To Propogate Message: Those were my glory days, Joe! I remember those spontaneous events we held in D.C. I loved doing those things! I had very wonderful experiences speaking before the masses. Farragut Sq. was really bizarre because we spoke at lunchtime and there were thousands of office workers roaming around so it was basically impossible to concentrate for more than ten seconds on anything. I remember I tried to give satsang to this one very well dressed businessman, who listened to me very politely and then asked very sincerely, 'Whatever this stuff is that you're on, is it better than sex?' Since I have trouble lying when I am one with God, I hesitated before answering and that told him all he needed to know. He then went on to describe in detail what he would like to do to this one woman who was standing nearby. I said something really lame like, but those are temporary experiences! Before he left me he said, listen if you ever find something better than sex, let me know, I'd be very interested. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, Apr 14, 1998 at 21:50:19 (EDT)
From: Memphis Belle Email: None To: JW Subject: How To Propogate Message: There can never be a movement of prop. like there was in the 70's and early 80's. All the young people are not looking for peace because there is no war right now. I think, (I may be wrong) that every young person in the 70's was really concerned about the well being of the earth, Love not War! Nobody says these things very much any more and it is certainly not on the news every night. Now a days young people are not concerned that much about peace. Most likely they are on the Web! So propigation is very different for M now. Now he sends videos all around the world to small villages, even in Africa. People don't have TV's in their own village, but M provides a Video by way of a premie who can set up a video for the village. And the people love it. Who wouldn't like to see a beautiful video? Right? Is the next generation of M followers, mostly people who don't have TV? Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, Apr 14, 1998 at 22:09:10 (EDT)
From: VP Email: None To: Memphis Belle Subject: To Memphis Belle Message: Memphis Belle, I am really interested in how you became interested in knowledge and Maharaji. It's pretty personal stuff, so I understand if you don't want to discuss it here. I guess I feel like eb. I found out about it in the 70's and was interested in it from the 'Perfect Master' angle. This guy was god in human form! I was pretty young and really didn't understand the war, but I did want to know and understand God. I don't know how people get interested in it these days either. If it isn't too personal, how did you perceive M and K? Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 01:18:30 (EDT)
From: Paula Email: None To: Memphis Belle Subject: the next generation Message: You made a good point about TV and M videos... for sure, it can attract people that never saw TV. But I think that there are many other possibilities. It seems that the first generation of premies wanted to change the world. So many things were happening on the 70's... and there was a need of system changes. But if you consider now... it is another kind of 'clients' M have. They don't want to change anything.... and M says in many videos that 'the world won't change' (when he says that, he starts making that silly jokes about how stupid the Modern Man is) and there is no way to make your life make sense besides the inner experience. Good way to sell the 'sense of life' (maybe it is a really good product, I am not against it). Maybe people don't want to change anything these days, but they feel bad when they look at their lives. So they decide to look inside. But.... I was thinking now and... imagine this: if people were happy and if the world was a little bit better place... would people need M and K as much as they do now? I don't think so. And also.... if you consider that people use M and K as a drug/medicine/therapy.... it is possible that it does not solve anything. It just make time pass by more nicely. these are just thoughts from someone that is still awake in the end of the night..... Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 12:17:25 (EDT)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Paula Subject: the next generation Message: Dear Paula, I never thought about the politics of the 70's leading us into M and K but can see it now. We all wanted big changes and M certainly seemed to be that. Now it just seems hollow, from the aspirant perspective anyway. I just want to let you know what value K still holds in my life. First of all I don't meditate as much as I wish I did, no guilt trip I just don't experience the benifits as strongly as back when... I guess there needs to be a balance between the benifits of K or any meditation and getting so involved that you loose you ability to reason. When I meditated formally twice daily and just the word as much of the day as I would remember, I felt full of love, now that may also have partly been my age and mind set at the time but it helped me not flare up when things didn't go well, car break downs, irraite people on the phone, my mom, etc. I do see it as having benifits as a relaxation method as well as a spiritual experience, I have mentioned before that it is facinating to me to experience things outside of the day to day surface stuff in this life. Also Paula, sorry if my last email was choppy. I was at my job where I have things to do and should have waited to respond. Robyn Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 22:19:47 (EDT)
From: Paula Email: None To: Robyn Subject: the next e-mail Message: Hi Robyn, it is just to tell you: Don`t be sorry about anything!!! but I say sorry, because I had problems yesterday when I tried to send you an e-mail. I will try it again when I get at home.... can you pardon me? ;) Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 10:03:13 (EDT)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Paula Subject: email Message: Dear Paula, No problem, honey. Robyn Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 04:01:24 (EDT)
From: Paula Email: None To: Robyn Subject: the next e-mail Message: Robyn... I am having some problems with my e-mail... please don't think I don't want to answer you.... Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 12:06:37 (EDT)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Memphis Belle Subject: TV in Africa Message: Dear Belle, My eldest daughter spent 3 months in a remote African village in Kenya, living in her own mud hut as a 'member' of her host family. I think there were 40 or so people in the family because the men have multiple wives. Her host family was at the top of the village hierarchy, no I don't know which came first but they had a TV, did that give them status or did their status dictate that they got the TV. My daughter took a picture of it because it looked like an alter. The TV was high up in a corner of the room and covered with a beautifully decorated silk blue cloth with fringe when not in use. Maybe they could become the video connection in their village for M! Robyn Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 12:45:15 (EDT)
From: JW Email: None To: Memphis Belle Subject: How To Propogate Message: Good point that the world has changed since the 70s. But I wouldn't be so sure that people have changed all that much. Certainly I think younger people are a little less idealistic than my generation was, but I am amazed when talking to my nieces and nephews, some of whom are college aged, at how idealistic they really are. And even though my generation also grew up watching television, this generation did it much more so, and also grew up in the age of computer, video games, and surrounded by more cynicism about institutions in general. But the idea that they would be even remotely attracted to watching some fat guy on a video, as a talking head, blather repitively about a 'beautiful place' seems ludicrous. Their first question, unlike mine when I was their age, would be, 'what is this guy sellling?' and 'what is in it for this guy?' And I don't doubt that the Big M has tried to change his approach because his old methods didn't work anymore. But what is so dishonest and irresponsible of him is to pretend to change WHO HE IS, to try to be more relatable. He used to be god, but isn't anymore. He used to be the 'superior power in person' but isn't anymore. He used to say the devotion to the 'perfect master' (which I guess he still is sans the 'perfect' part) was the ultimate and essential part of the experience he is offering, but he doesn't say that anymore. He used to say that a monastic lifestyle in the ashram was more or less essential, or at least the preferred environment for realization and devotion, but he abandoned that some time ago. And he does all of this without one shred of explanation, and without one statement of accepting responsibility for any of the past. I guess this latter set of deficiencies are what ex-premies can contribute to the conversation, and perhaps embarrass him into being a little bit more honest and perhaps demonstrate a little integrity. Now, THAT might be attractive to people like my nieces and nephews in the MTV generation. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, Apr 14, 1998 at 23:43:07 (EDT)
From: Scott T. Email: None To: JW Subject: Propogating in DC Message: JW: When I first got here, in 1993, the HKs were propagating at the Smithsonian Castle. I think they stopped at some point, because I can't recall seeing them there in a long time. They were not their usual in-your-face selves either. Very polite, for HKs anyway. As you know this is really a very consevative city, in spite of the fact that it votes overwhelmingly Democrat. You even have to be mindful of the kind of tie you wear. San Francisco it's not. -Scott Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 17:08:18 (EDT)
From: JW Email: None To: Scott T. Subject: Propogating in DC Message: Actually, I thought DC seemed more 'Southern' than it did conservative. You know, there is this feeling that you should sit on your front porch (I mean veranda) and drink ice tea or a mint julep. But if DC is conservative, how did they elect Marion Barry, a known crack user, as mayor? By the way, I really like Chris Rock and he did this HBO special in which he said something like: 'How could they elect a crackhead as mayor?' 'And who was running against Marion Barry who was SO BAD that they lost to a CRACKHEAD?' Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 18:29:43 (EDT)
From: Scott T. Email: None To: JW Subject: DC politics. Message: JW: There are two DCs: K Street and the 8th precinct are the archetypes. K Street is somewhat liberal politically, and VERY conservative culturally. (K Street is where all the law offices are located.) The 8th precinct (Anacostia) was represented by Wilhelmina Roloff until Barry put on his Dhashiki and ran for council. Next stop, Mayor. Of course, since DC is 80 to 90% black the only contest is in the Democrat primary, or if an independent runs. Lightfoot refused to run against Barry as an independent, although he could have done well. I'm not sure Barry's election doesn't represent a certain Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 04:16:40 (EDT)
From: David Email: djulian@cix.compulink.co.uk To: JW Subject: Guru Maharaj Ji's prashad Message: You can't beat selling 'Divine Times' door to door on your 21st birthday on a cold and rainy November day in Stoke on Trent while all the other premies are starting the Millennium with the Lord of the Universe and about to take off to another planet in the Astrodome while you are stuck in Stoke ashram with a mad housemother who has made you a wholemeal birthday cake that resembles a piece of rock. Such was my great good fortune in serving our Lord. Now that's devotion for you! Back To Index -:- Top of Index |