Ex-Premie.Org

Forum III Archive # 24

From: Sep 14, 1998

To: Oct 1, 1998

Page: 4 Of: 5



Rev John Hammond-Smyth -:- From the book of Profits -:- Sun, Sep 20, 1998 at 02:34:03 (EDT)

Jim -:- M's heavy mindfuck -:- Sat, Sep 19, 1998 at 23:26:26 (EDT)
__Mike -:- The Desert! -:- Mon, Sep 21, 1998 at 12:10:12 (EDT)
____Ron Sherwood -:- The Desert! -:- Mon, Sep 21, 1998 at 16:34:48 (EDT)
______Mike -:- I Would welcome -:- Mon, Sep 21, 1998 at 16:56:46 (EDT)

Jim -:- M's divine sense of humour -:- Sat, Sep 19, 1998 at 22:53:16 (EDT)
__Robyn -:- M's divine sense of humour -:- Sat, Sep 19, 1998 at 23:04:51 (EDT)

Jim -:- M on the antichrist -:- Sat, Sep 19, 1998 at 22:24:00 (EDT)

Jim -:- An early (and insightful) ex -:- Sat, Sep 19, 1998 at 22:07:47 (EDT)

Jim -:- M: 'Real men don't question' -:- Sat, Sep 19, 1998 at 21:36:24 (EDT)

Jim -:- M don't want yo' money -:- Sat, Sep 19, 1998 at 21:28:39 (EDT)
__Mike -:- EVERYONE! -:- Mon, Sep 21, 1998 at 11:32:41 (EDT)
____bill -:- EVERYONE! -:- Wed, Sep 23, 1998 at 19:16:57 (EDT)

Jim -:- M can make you like CD -:- Sat, Sep 19, 1998 at 21:23:13 (EDT)
__Mike -:- Blankets... -:- Mon, Sep 21, 1998 at 11:06:46 (EDT)

Brian (Site Feedback) -:- Mr. Sherwood explains it all -:- Sat, Sep 19, 1998 at 08:35:53 (EDT)
__billin hood -:- Mr. Sherwood explains it all -:- Sat, Sep 19, 1998 at 09:27:26 (EDT)
__Jerry -:- Mr. Sherwood explains it all -:- Sat, Sep 19, 1998 at 12:33:01 (EDT)
__Jim -:- In kindness -:- Sat, Sep 19, 1998 at 23:34:22 (EDT)

Malibu Mole -:- Contributions -:- Fri, Sep 18, 1998 at 22:09:17 (EDT)
__Gail -:- Contributions -:- Fri, Sep 18, 1998 at 22:26:08 (EDT)

Student -:- Sneaking a peek -:- Fri, Sep 18, 1998 at 21:07:42 (EDT)
__Nigel -:- Welcome back! -:- Fri, Sep 18, 1998 at 21:33:14 (EDT)
____Student -:- Welcome back! -:- Fri, Sep 18, 1998 at 22:03:37 (EDT)
______nigel -:- the threads in question -:- Fri, Sep 18, 1998 at 22:30:33 (EDT)
______Rick -:- Welcome back! -:- Sat, Sep 19, 1998 at 00:20:20 (EDT)
____Rick -:- Welcome back! -:- Sat, Sep 19, 1998 at 00:12:31 (EDT)
__Jim -:- Peeing on a sneak -:- Fri, Sep 18, 1998 at 21:40:18 (EDT)
____Student -:- Peeing on a sneak -:- Fri, Sep 18, 1998 at 22:06:11 (EDT)
______Runamok -:- Sneaking a pee -:- Sat, Sep 19, 1998 at 00:05:02 (EDT)
__nigel -:- Seen any good videos lately? -:- Fri, Sep 18, 1998 at 22:12:59 (EDT)
____Katie -:- Seen any good videos lately? -:- Sat, Sep 19, 1998 at 00:23:37 (EDT)
____Diz -:- Seen any good videos lately? -:- Mon, Sep 21, 1998 at 08:23:58 (EDT)
______Judith -:- Seen any good videos lately? -:- Mon, Sep 21, 1998 at 10:18:50 (EDT)
__hamzen -:- Living to 120 -:- Sat, Sep 19, 1998 at 06:16:26 (EDT)
__bill -:- Sneaking a peek -:- Sat, Sep 19, 1998 at 09:11:27 (EDT)
____Student -:- Sneaking a peek -:- Sat, Sep 19, 1998 at 17:26:42 (EDT)
______Bill -:- Just the facts. -:- Sat, Sep 19, 1998 at 19:46:29 (EDT)
________hamzen -:- Just the facts. -:- Sat, Sep 19, 1998 at 19:58:27 (EDT)
________Jim -:- Just the facts. -:- Sat, Sep 19, 1998 at 21:03:02 (EDT)
______Bill -:- Student is a narcissist -:- Sun, Sep 20, 1998 at 23:46:36 (EDT)
________Jim -:- Student is a narcissist -:- Mon, Sep 21, 1998 at 01:51:46 (EDT)
__________bill -:- Student is a narcissist -:- Mon, Sep 21, 1998 at 09:20:40 (EDT)
____________Jim -:- Student is a narcissist -:- Mon, Sep 21, 1998 at 11:23:42 (EDT)
______________bill -:- Student is a narcissist -:- Tues, Sep 22, 1998 at 00:41:55 (EDT)
__Jerry -:- Sneaking a peek -:- Sat, Sep 19, 1998 at 15:16:38 (EDT)
____bill -:- Sneaking a peek -:- Sat, Sep 19, 1998 at 16:31:01 (EDT)

Becky -:- Been away Jim -:- Fri, Sep 18, 1998 at 13:07:20 (EDT)
__Becky -:- Trial etc -:- Fri, Sep 18, 1998 at 13:14:39 (EDT)
__Abdul -:- Been away Jim -:- Fri, Sep 18, 1998 at 13:59:44 (EDT)

Bal Bhagwan Ji is back, -:- and understand the Word of God -:- Fri, Sep 18, 1998 at 11:51:24 (EDT)
__nigel -:- carbolic metabollocks -:- Fri, Sep 18, 1998 at 16:15:47 (EDT)
____Mike -:- Vitriolic Manybuttocks (nt) -:- Fri, Sep 18, 1998 at 16:49:12 (EDT)
____Jerry -:- carbolic metabollocks -:- Fri, Sep 18, 1998 at 16:51:42 (EDT)
______Nigel -:- carbolic metabollocks -:- Fri, Sep 18, 1998 at 17:50:02 (EDT)

Gail -:- Atlantic City -:- Thurs, Sep 17, 1998 at 23:23:05 (EDT)
__Sir D -:- Atlantic City -:- Fri, Sep 18, 1998 at 14:22:07 (EDT)
__RT -:- Is this Phase 2? -:- Fri, Sep 18, 1998 at 16:14:20 (EDT)
____Mike -:- It's -:- Fri, Sep 18, 1998 at 16:52:26 (EDT)
____Gail -:- Now Kabir this... -:- Fri, Sep 18, 1998 at 19:15:43 (EDT)
______JW -:- IT's Because of US! -:- Fri, Sep 18, 1998 at 19:39:01 (EDT)
________John Hammond-Smyth -:- IT's Because of US! -:- Fri, Sep 18, 1998 at 20:43:00 (EDT)
__________Larkin -:- final days -:- Fri, Sep 18, 1998 at 21:04:12 (EDT)
____________Gail -:- final days -:- Fri, Sep 18, 1998 at 21:39:23 (EDT)
____________RT -:- final daze -:- Sat, Sep 19, 1998 at 18:31:49 (EDT)
____________Robyn -:- final days -:- Sat, Sep 19, 1998 at 22:38:17 (EDT)
__________Laura -:- IT's Because of US! -:- Sat, Sep 19, 1998 at 17:40:27 (EDT)
____________John Hammond-Smyth -:- Hey hey Laura -:- Sat, Sep 19, 1998 at 20:30:42 (EDT)
____________Robyn -:- Laura -:- Sat, Sep 19, 1998 at 23:13:40 (EDT)
____________bill -:- Laura -:- Sat, Sep 19, 1998 at 23:39:03 (EDT)
__________Katie -:- IT's Because of US! -:- Sat, Sep 19, 1998 at 22:50:36 (EDT)
__________Robyn -:- IT's Because of US! -:- Sat, Sep 19, 1998 at 23:25:27 (EDT)

Jim -:- M never said to be fanatical -:- Thurs, Sep 17, 1998 at 20:06:28 (EDT)
__JW -:- To Brian/JM -:- Fri, Sep 18, 1998 at 13:38:11 (EDT)
____Jean-Michel -:- M never said: bla bla -:- Sat, Sep 19, 1998 at 03:20:12 (EDT)
__Way -:- M never said to be fanatical -:- Fri, Sep 18, 1998 at 13:55:38 (EDT)
____Mike -:- I remember -:- Fri, Sep 18, 1998 at 14:08:39 (EDT)
______Jerry -:- Do you remember this? -:- Fri, Sep 18, 1998 at 17:09:46 (EDT)
________Mike -:- Yes, unfortunately I DO -:- Fri, Sep 18, 1998 at 17:39:57 (EDT)
__________Mickey the Pharisee -:- Yes, unfortunately I DO -:- Fri, Sep 18, 1998 at 19:04:10 (EDT)
____________Gail -:- Somewhere under the rainbow -:- Fri, Sep 18, 1998 at 19:23:56 (EDT)
______________Mike -:- Not imagining things! -:- Fri, Sep 18, 1998 at 19:50:52 (EDT)
______________CD -:- Somewhere under the rainbow -:- Fri, Sep 18, 1998 at 20:15:04 (EDT)
________________Jerry -:- Somewhere under the rainbow -:- Sat, Sep 19, 1998 at 14:35:36 (EDT)
__________hamzen -:- Yes, unfortunately I DO -:- Sat, Sep 19, 1998 at 06:44:45 (EDT)
____________Mike -:- Uh, uh.... :-) -:- Mon, Sep 21, 1998 at 10:38:54 (EDT)
________Katie -:- Maharaji's rainbow?? -:- Sat, Sep 19, 1998 at 19:18:52 (EDT)
____bill -:- M never said to be fanatical -:- Fri, Sep 18, 1998 at 14:21:19 (EDT)
______Mike -:- M never said to be fanatical -:- Fri, Sep 18, 1998 at 14:45:12 (EDT)
________Nigel -:- Exatcly: Just stories.... -:- Fri, Sep 18, 1998 at 18:18:44 (EDT)
__________Mike -:- Exactly: Just nonsense -:- Fri, Sep 18, 1998 at 18:39:01 (EDT)
__________Mike -:- An aside -:- Fri, Sep 18, 1998 at 19:01:52 (EDT)
____________nigel -:- You too, Mike (nt) -:- Fri, Sep 18, 1998 at 19:12:54 (EDT)
__________bill -:- Exatcly: Just stories.... -:- Sat, Sep 19, 1998 at 10:24:59 (EDT)
__Laura -:- M never said to be fanatical -:- Sat, Sep 19, 1998 at 17:49:43 (EDT)

Jim -:- M on the danger of cults -:- Thurs, Sep 17, 1998 at 19:59:29 (EDT)

Jim -:- Maharaji settles the grace q -:- Thurs, Sep 17, 1998 at 19:50:28 (EDT)

Jim -:- Maharaji's history lesson -:- Thurs, Sep 17, 1998 at 19:13:43 (EDT)
__Mike -:- THE fix for every mess -:- Thurs, Sep 17, 1998 at 19:31:46 (EDT)
____CD -:- THE fix for every mess -:- Fri, Sep 18, 1998 at 19:47:47 (EDT)
______Mike -:- THE fix for every mess -:- Fri, Sep 18, 1998 at 20:03:55 (EDT)
________Judith -:- THE fix for every mess -:- Fri, Sep 18, 1998 at 22:33:21 (EDT)
__Jerry -:- Maharaji's history lesson -:- Thurs, Sep 17, 1998 at 20:03:25 (EDT)

Jim -:- 'Lord'? Did I say that? -:- Thurs, Sep 17, 1998 at 19:02:18 (EDT)
__Mickey the Pharisee -:- Please, send your... -:- Thurs, Sep 17, 1998 at 19:07:19 (EDT)
____Mike -:- Please, send your... -:- Thurs, Sep 17, 1998 at 19:25:58 (EDT)

Jim -:- Truly wise beyond his years -:- Thurs, Sep 17, 1998 at 18:44:48 (EDT)
__Mike -:- Truly wise beyond his years -:- Thurs, Sep 17, 1998 at 19:40:15 (EDT)
__Jerry -:- Truly wise beyond his years -:- Thurs, Sep 17, 1998 at 19:53:08 (EDT)
__Jean-Michel -:- Yes I'm getting these! -:- Thurs, Sep 17, 1998 at 22:32:53 (EDT)

Jim -:- Maharaji's evolutionary theory -:- Thurs, Sep 17, 1998 at 18:35:21 (EDT)
__nigel -:- damn! I spilled my coffee -:- Thurs, Sep 17, 1998 at 18:47:12 (EDT)
__Mike -:- I can't wait... -:- Thurs, Sep 17, 1998 at 18:50:51 (EDT)
__Mickey the Pharisee -:- Maharaji's evolutionary theory -:- Thurs, Sep 17, 1998 at 18:59:57 (EDT)
____Mike -:- Maharaji's evolutionary theory -:- Thurs, Sep 17, 1998 at 19:04:16 (EDT)
______Mickey the Pharisee -:- Maharaji's evolutionary theory -:- Thurs, Sep 17, 1998 at 19:08:40 (EDT)
________Mike -:- Whew! -:- Thurs, Sep 17, 1998 at 19:13:02 (EDT)
__________Mickey the Pharisee -:- Whew! -:- Thurs, Sep 17, 1998 at 19:16:01 (EDT)
__Laura -:- Maharaji's evolutionary theory -:- Sat, Sep 19, 1998 at 18:02:20 (EDT)

Jim -:- Fear mongering? Nonsense -:- Thurs, Sep 17, 1998 at 18:25:20 (EDT)
__Mike -:- He can't even count -:- Thurs, Sep 17, 1998 at 18:57:23 (EDT)

Jim -:- Grovel like dog -:- Thurs, Sep 17, 1998 at 18:19:09 (EDT)
__Mike -:- Grovel like dog -:- Thurs, Sep 17, 1998 at 19:03:05 (EDT)
__JW -:- Grovel like dog -:- Thurs, Sep 17, 1998 at 22:35:17 (EDT)
____Jim -:- Grovel like dog -:- Fri, Sep 18, 1998 at 11:35:34 (EDT)
______JW -:- Grovel like dog -:- Fri, Sep 18, 1998 at 13:09:25 (EDT)
________Gail -:- Grovel like dog -:- Fri, Sep 18, 1998 at 13:27:12 (EDT)

Jim -:- Pressure? What pressure? -:- Thurs, Sep 17, 1998 at 18:04:51 (EDT)
__nigel -:- Holy shit, Jimbo! -:- Thurs, Sep 17, 1998 at 18:39:17 (EDT)
__Mike -:- No pressure at all -:- Thurs, Sep 17, 1998 at 19:11:08 (EDT)
____Jerry -:- No pressure at all -:- Thurs, Sep 17, 1998 at 20:18:37 (EDT)
______Mike -:- facitious -:- Fri, Sep 18, 1998 at 10:44:30 (EDT)
__Jean-Michel -:- Poor guy -:- Thurs, Sep 17, 1998 at 22:43:17 (EDT)

JW -:- Staying On Topic -:- Thurs, Sep 17, 1998 at 14:06:45 (EDT)
__Mike -:- Staying On Topic -:- Thurs, Sep 17, 1998 at 14:21:09 (EDT)
____Mike -:- Hey, JW -:- Thurs, Sep 17, 1998 at 16:18:01 (EDT)
______JW -:- Hey, Mike -:- Fri, Sep 18, 1998 at 13:20:06 (EDT)
________Mike -:- Good Input! -:- Fri, Sep 18, 1998 at 13:44:45 (EDT)
__Judith -:- Staying On Topic -:- Thurs, Sep 17, 1998 at 19:56:57 (EDT)
____JW -:- Staying On Topic -:- Fri, Sep 18, 1998 at 13:23:39 (EDT)

Mickey the Pharisee -:- Hey Kids! -:- Thurs, Sep 17, 1998 at 11:27:33 (EDT)
__JW -:- Good Wine And Good Company -:- Thurs, Sep 17, 1998 at 13:53:40 (EDT)
____Mike -:- Good Wine And Good Company -:- Thurs, Sep 17, 1998 at 14:06:19 (EDT)
__Carol -:- Hey Kids! See me too! -:- Tues, Sep 22, 1998 at 01:37:37 (EDT)
____Diz -:- Hey Kids! See me too! -:- Tues, Sep 22, 1998 at 06:00:02 (EDT)
______Carol -:- Happy Equinox! -:- Wed, Sep 23, 1998 at 02:18:31 (EDT)
________Diz -:- Happy Equinox - off topic -:- Wed, Sep 23, 1998 at 08:57:39 (EDT)
________Mike -:- Happy Equinox! -:- Wed, Sep 23, 1998 at 13:28:28 (EDT)
__________Carol -:- But in anytime! -:- Thurs, Sep 24, 1998 at 01:57:43 (EDT)

Jim -:- GMJ pillow talk -:- Thurs, Sep 17, 1998 at 10:58:58 (EDT)
__Jim -:- GMJ pillow talk (2) -:- Thurs, Sep 17, 1998 at 11:09:50 (EDT)
____Mike -:- GMJ pillow talk (2) -:- Thurs, Sep 17, 1998 at 13:17:44 (EDT)
__Diz -:- GMJ pillow talk -:- Mon, Sep 21, 1998 at 01:27:09 (EDT)
____Judith -:- GMJ pillow talk -:- Mon, Sep 21, 1998 at 18:07:49 (EDT)
______hamzen -:- GMJ pillow talk -:- Mon, Sep 21, 1998 at 20:02:22 (EDT)
________Judith -:- GMJ pillow talk -:- Tues, Sep 22, 1998 at 22:31:25 (EDT)


Date: Sun, Sep 20, 1998 at 02:34:03 (EDT)
From: Rev John Hammond-Smyth
Email: padded.cell@asylum.com
To: Everyone
Subject: From the book of Profits
Message:
The Lord punishes the children of Prem

And the Lord spake unto the children of Prem saying, 'Thine beragons are an abomination unto mine eyes. Take thine beragons yonder and cast them into the pit that is called Old Seventies Mistakes'. And it came to pass that there was a wailing and nashing of teeth amongst the children of Prem for they were sore afraid and filled with great tribulation that cometh from tired arms and aching backs.

And the Lord sent forth his prophet whose name is David of Smith. And the prophet didst smite the children of Prem with strong words and didst cover his eyes from their abominations and the people fell to the ground and wept for mercy. But mercy knew he not for he was an instrument of the Lord whose name is Haharaji.

Here endeth this Sunday's lesson.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Sep 19, 1998 at 23:26:26 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: M's heavy mindfuck
Message:
I'm not going to type the whole thing. I'll jsut remind you. In Kissimee (1978), Maharaji harkened back to the satsang he'd given earlier that year in Tuscon. Remember? That was the one about the crazy mind leading us into the desert, snakes, buzzards, thirst. He goes on and on, painting this frightful image of relentless .... well, it's hell, isn't it? The hell of the mind.

Then along comes Mary.... then along comes Maharaji. You know, with the crane, lifts us up, takes us to the Oasis. Oh, sorry, BACK to the Oasis. All the world is desert (hell?) save BUT for Maharaji's lone oasis. Pretty bleak, huh?

'When you give up all your hopes, when everything is dead, when everything is gone, when everything is over, when it's all finished, it's all gone, it's all dead [you already said that one, bud] and when that true surrender for even a moment strikes you, Guru Maharaj Ji comes and picks you up, and takes you to His oasis. He takes you to His place where you always wanted to be. Adn you know, I mean that's so wonderful, it's so incredible. Do we really deserve that, to even be able to go back to the oasis?

I mean, who are we to be able to deserve to go back to the oasis? What have we done in this life that might be worth it? Nothing. It's just tumbling boo-boos one after another, one after another; that's all we've done in this life. But that's not the way how we'll be able to really get out of here. Out of this mind. Only by Guru Maharaj Ji's Grace. Only by Guru Maharaj Ji's Love. [yes, it finally got captialized this time.] Only by Guru Maharaj Ji's affection.

******

So that mind, that factor that's always against us, can get us; it has the potential of getting us. What I'm trying to say, is that I'm not trying to kid you when I say that the mind can zap you, the mind can get you. It can get you. And we have to be aware of that, and do something, and the only thing we can do to avoid that, is to surrender to Guru Maharaj Ji. So it's only our effort, premies, that's really going to do it. .....'

[Jonestown, Florida, or what?]
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Sep 21, 1998 at 12:10:12 (EDT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: The Desert!
Message:
Jim: There's only one MAJOR problem with his analogies (besides the fact that they suck, in general). He was in Tucson (a desert town) and being as he is the lord and all, you would think that he would understand the fact that the 'Desert' is beautiful and very much alive. I'm a desert dweller and I LOVE IT! It is one of the most beautiful places on earth (that's why I returned here when I retired). Snakes, buzzards, lizards, bobcats, deer, javelina, spiders, birds, scorpions, coyotes, et al are a necessary and wonderful part of the desert. This reminds me of his 'seeds are dead' satsang. M is TRUELY a MORON!

- BTW, an occasional 'oasis' is nice, but it isn't the point of going into the desert, now is it?
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Sep 21, 1998 at 16:34:48 (EDT)
From: Ron Sherwood
Email: SherwoodForest@WebTV.Net
To: Mike
Subject: The Desert!
Message:
Mike: I would enjoy watching you go up against Maharaji face to face discussing a n y subject. Maybe then you'd learn to stop calling people names and find better ways to get satisfaction.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Sep 21, 1998 at 16:56:46 (EDT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Ron Sherwood
Subject: I Would welcome
Message:
Ron: I would welcome the opportunity to speak to him face-to-face. To bad he doesn't even have the guts to meet me/us in relative anonymity (e.g. this forum). Concerning the 'names,' well if the shoe fits. When a person makes a moronic statement, then what should I call it? Intelligent? Cute? Witty? Charming?

- Concerning the 'any' subject part, how about Astrophysics? I would love to hear M's take on the origin of the cosmos. No it isn't riding on the back of a turtle (hindu superstition).
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Sep 19, 1998 at 22:53:16 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: M's divine sense of humour
Message:
I cringed when I read a report on a National Co-ordinators conference in the December, 1977 Divine Times. Why? Because the author reminded me of how we laughed like idiots at Maharaji's lame jokes. This, for me, is the deepest cut of all. Here's the blurb:

'For some examples of Maharaj Ji's humour while doing a roll call of the nations represented, we can try these:

-- Australia was told that, while Guru Maharaj Ji coudln't te3ll them exactly what date he would be there, he could give them 'an approximate time: 8:30!'

-- The coordinator from Brazil was asked: 'What's happening? Has it stopped raining yet?'

-- After listening to the coordinator from Chile speak in Spanish, Maharaji replied in Hindi: 'A-cha' (meaning 'yes')

-- Canada, Maharaji told everyone, was the first place where Maharaj Ji ever saw a river completely frozen over.

-- To the fact that Denmark had nine new premies, Maharaj Ji beamed, smiled, and said, 'That's Denmark. Slow, but sure.'

-- The Hong Kong premies were told: 'You'd think you'd carry your own microphones. Little bitty ones, in your sleeves.'

-- The coordinator from Ireland was asked if he ever found a four-leaf clover. 'You're the four-leaf clover,' Tom Oglesby told Maharaj Ji. The reply was: 'Come on!'

-- Sweden, Maharaj Ji said, was the 'first place where the windows were only allowed to open this much (a few inches).' And if it ever got hot there, Maharaji added, 'the houses would melt.'

-- The United Kingdom was 'Her Majesty's United Kingdom.' The national coordinator was asked: 'What's happening in jolly old Britain?'

-- Bill Patterson, the national coordinator for the U.S., was referred to, as always, as 'Mr. President.'

-- Maharaji forgot to call out Greece when he first did the roll call. When he discovered that, he looked back at the list of nations and proclaimed: 'You must be in there. But you could have just slid off.'

[Pretty fucking funny, eh? I'm going to try some of these jokes out on a few of my friends. This next one is absolute genius. Chris, I can see where you get your style.]

-- At the end of the first day, Maharaji told the coordinators: 'Please don't go to sleep at this conference. I see a lot of people are tired. Drink a lot of coffee.' After everyone laughed, he added, 'Not necessarily. But don't sleep.'

[Of course, Maharaji's best joke wasn't meant to be funny. It was a very special moment that occurred after Maharaji held a meeting with initiators.]

Maharaj Ji stood on a balcony overlooking the hall and was asked if he would please stay in Europe, go to Canada, etc. He replied by saying that we are premies now, and there should be no Europe, no Canada, no Australia.

'I'm on the planet,' he said. 'Isn't that enough.'

After he held a
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Sep 19, 1998 at 23:04:51 (EDT)
From: Robyn
Email: sundogs@hotmail.com
To: Jim
Subject: M's divine sense of humour
Message:
Jim,
Thanks, funny. My favorite:
- Australia was told that, while Guru Maharaj Ji coudln't te3ll them exactly what date he would be there, he could give them 'an approximate time: 8:30!'
Robyn
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Sep 19, 1998 at 22:24:00 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: M on the antichrist
Message:
Sophia Collier (?), who wrote her 1974 book 'Soul Rush' after leaving Maharaji and who was fairly up on high-level gossip at the Kitteridge building (Denver HQ) said M was drunk at Millenium. What does this sound like?:

'So, ladies and gentlemen, this is the time. Just imagine me as a cowboy with guns pulled on you telling you to receive Knowledge. And you.d better. Imagine me like that, okay?

Many people say, 'You are a fake. You are antichrist.' You know what I do? Give 'em a big smile. Because man, when antichrist comes on their heads, they won't know. He's going to be professional.

All the people who say that I am fake shouldn't bother about me, maybe I am fake. Forget about me. Talk about Knowledge....'
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Sep 19, 1998 at 22:07:47 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: An early (and insightful) ex
Message:
[Hey, this is interesting. In a Canadian premie newsletter from 1976, there's a letter by a former premie which was lifted from the October 15, 1975 issue of 'The New Age Journal'. The point of republishing the letter, as the accompanying editorial explained, was to show that poor Elizabeth left too early. See, by 1976 Maharaji had already indicated he'd be eliminating any reason for premies to think of Knowledge as a 'trip']:

'Reading the article entitled 'Spirituality and Fascism' brought back many memories of my time spent with Guru Maharaj Ji's Divine Light Misssion. I wish to share some memories with you.

In order to be initiated into the group, I had to come to a place of total belief and surrender in and to the guru. Everyone was loving and giving and extremely content with their devotion, and I, being naive to spirituality, was mesmerized by the possibility of being as 'blissful' as the others. Becoming part of the Divine Light Mission meant having a family everywhere on the planet. It promised purpose in life and complete contentment; important work and unconditional friendship with thousands of people -- as long as you pattern your way of thinking after the guru and his disciples. Before initiation, all made very sure that I was ready to pattern my life in this way.

Mahatma: Will you chop your head off for Guru Maharaj Ji?

Seeker: (pause)

Mahatma: Never mind, you are not ready.

Seeker: Well I couldn't say that ...

Mahatma: You aren't worthy of it yey, try again in a month.


So for a month, I'd wait, still being persuaded and loved and being excited at the possibility of 'maybe next month, I will be worthy.' So the Next month:

Mahatma: Will you chop your head off for Guru Maharaj Ji?

Seeker: (pause)

Mahatma: Never mind, you are not ready.


I wanted this 'Knowledge' so much after that that whatever the Mahatma said, I would say 'yes'. And so finally I received the initiation. After that, whatever the guru and his Mahatmas and promoters said, I said, 'yes, yes, yes,' and if I ever doubted, my fellow devotees would give me a massage and say, 'Remember, one thing the guru says is, 'Never leave room for doubt in your mind,' And so I would erase all doubt, and I was so 'happy,' 'blissful,' and content,' I had support in every direction. Everyone I knew admitted that even though the Guru would probably never ask us to kill for him, our faith in him would allow for killing. Added to this remark was always 'but never say that to anyone but a devotee.'

In the streets, we would say, 'Try it, you'll like it. You don't have to change your life, it's just a nice addition to it.' On the streets we would say to each other, like, 'Guru Maharaj Ji is the only way, the only master who can get you to the higher places.' We knew that other paths could get you high, but not as high as the Guru.

And all of this time, I neve saw Guru Maharaj Ji or communicated with him in any way. When I realized through many outside influences that I had things to learn other than what Divine Light Mission had to teach me, I left the Guru and have been growing in all directions since. When I left, I was told that I had lost the Guru's grace and that I would be without grace until I returned. I was told, 'You'll come back. We have no doubt.' When I left, even I was sure I would go back, but I never will, not in that way.'

Elizabeth
California

From the 'New Age Journal', October 15, 1975.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Sep 19, 1998 at 21:36:24 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: M: 'Real men don't question'
Message:
Also from Montrose:

'One man came to me in Bombay and asked me questions for half an hour. He just aksed me questions, questions and questions. I said, 'Mister, have you recieved this Knowledge?'

He said, 'Yes.'

And I said, 'But have you received full peace?'

He said, 'Yes.'

I said, 'I don't think so. If you have recieved peace, you will be quiet meditating on it instead of asking questions.' So he just kep quiet after that. When we meditate on the Knowledge, this thinking attorney stops, and we act like men. [ouch!]

Today we are no better than monkeys. We are just flipping around. We want to create so many things, to do so many things, to say so many things, that we are just flipping around like monkeys. Or maybe more like chimpanzees. And we don't want to be chimpanzees, we want to be human men, because that's what God has made us. Why should we be chimpanzees if we are human beings?'
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Sep 19, 1998 at 21:28:39 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: M don't want yo' money
Message:
Also from Montrose:

'But I don't take anything; I don't want your money. So why am I doing it? I don't even get anything from God. I'm not being paid from God. Why should I want to do this thing?

Some people who have their brains working say, 'Oh, anyone who does some work does it for the money.' But that's not the reason I do this. I do it because I get great happiness. And happiness is the thing which makes love flow, which makes me love.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Sep 21, 1998 at 11:32:41 (EDT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: EVERYONE!
Message:
To Everyone: I know it's really obvious, but this quote is a bomb-shell.

To wit: 'Some people who have their brains working say, 'Oh, anyone who does some work does it for the money.''

With this quote, he insinuates that those that ask questions (about M) have 'working' brains. By inference I can safely assume that those who don't ask questions (premies) have 'non-functioning' brains(?) I DID notice that he said brain and not 'mind.' Interesting.......

I, for one, am glad to be part of the 'working brain' group. How about you?
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Sep 23, 1998 at 19:16:57 (EDT)
From: bill
Email: None
To: Mike
Subject: EVERYONE!
Message:
Your right on the money again Mike.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Sep 19, 1998 at 21:23:13 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: M can make you like CD
Message:
Some lines from Montrose, Colorado, July 27, 1972:

'But remember, the Lord is always here, even though people don't realize Him because they have thick sheets, thick coverings over their eyes.

When Lord Jesus came, the only people who were able to realize Him were those who believed in practical Knowledge; otherwise they could not. This has been true throughout history, and history is being repeated again. ..... Now the time ahs come when we must open our eyes to the Lord and see Him, because we don't always have the chance.

So what is the true Knowledge that all the Lords of their time have been giving to humanity?

*****

So what is the means we can apply to absolutely jam this mind? There's only one way -- to give it to someone else. If we give our mind to someone who can jam it and then give it back to us in a higher position, that's the best thing. And that's why disciples say,'Guru Maharaj Ji, please take my mind.' Now I don't do an operation on them, because the mind is not like that. But what I do is burn the part which runs too fast and jam it. And then it can run with the right speed, the speed that is required of it. Because if you drive too fast, it's always risky.'
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Sep 21, 1998 at 11:06:46 (EDT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Blankets...
Message:
Hey Jim: Do you think the 'thick sheets over the eyes' are the blankets we were required to pull over our heads?????? ;-)
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Sep 19, 1998 at 08:35:53 (EDT)
From: Brian (Site Feedback)
Email: brian@ex-premie.org
To: Everyone
Subject: Mr. Sherwood explains it all
Message:
I got this bit of feedback yesterday from Ron Sherwood:

Dear Ex-Premies:
There are three special dates and some insights I'd like to offer you. As brief and simple background are the dates and the insights are options for the misconceptions printed in your forum about Maharaji and Knowledge. [Read your ideas for the first time yesterday and I'm here today as a concerned party and friend.]

December 10, [Maharaji's birthday], November 9, [In '79/ recieved Knowledge] and today, September 18, my birthday. Please allow these dates to stand for my sincerity.

Please try to be as objective and open as possible as you consider the following: The history, facts and understanding about Maharaji and the experience of Knowledge as this 'Ex-Premie' site's point-of-view portrays may show certain individuals problems with it all; yet has nothing actually to do with Maharaji and Knowledge, in as far as what he really has to offer a person.

To turn negitives into positives, one could say the problem anyone has with how Maharaji uses finances [No one has ever been obligated to donate money to recieve knowledge, support his speaking tours, support Maharaji personally or even to get into an event to hear about Knowledge if one couldn't afford to contribute to the cost of the hall. In Jesus' time the hang-up was his 'appearance' of poorness; now the problem for some is the other way around.], or this preoccuption with words, [He is still Guru Maharaj Ji, devotion is still that experience, etc., words are inter-changeable as are titles and functions as in, teacher and student.], and if someone desires something from another, it isn't asking to much to try to focus and pay-attention, [How could devotion, the ultimate gift of the heart, be required as a starting point? If one feels a certain personal love and dedication from the begining, that's beautiful: Yet all growth begins with a seed]: So anyone with these or other misconceptions can use them to find commonsense. All that do, also find that there's no such thing as an Ex-Premie. Meaning, you do have the gift of life still? Think about it, or search your heart. You may even surprise yourself!!

To close, let me express that all of this is from my heart and I wish you the best, for after all it's your choice. The only other thing here is that anyone with a sincere interest in recieving Knowledge or if you might someday: Have always been advised to avoid reading about the Knowledge session, so you can enjoy it with no concept if possible. The people at this site have broken a vow they made and obviously don't know what their messing with. I'll be surprised yet pleased, if they are honest enough to print this entire writing.

Thank You,
A lover of life

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Sep 19, 1998 at 09:27:26 (EDT)
From: billin hood
Email: None
To: Brian (Site Feedback)
Subject: Mr. Sherwood explains it all
Message:
So you think the problem we have is how he spends
money?
Maybe that is high on some peoples list, but not on mine.
What about his false claims to be the master of life?

What about the consequences of all his words in the
seventies and eighties and nineties that were false and
had very huge effects on the lives of those that were caught
by his insistant claims to be the lord?
And all the arti and crown and saying that he was the ultimate
ruler and that we could only get to 'that experience'
by his doing. He was not talking about recieving knowledge,
we already had that and he was telling the instructors
and all us dedicated folks that he 'wanted to give us that
experience' but we always were doing some thing 'almost'
enough but we had to do more.

And guess what? NO ONE ever made it.
He didn't even make it, he thinks there is no god and so
he can play god.

Do you really think that we have something wrong here?
What clarity on this issue do you have for me?
I think you might be overlooking your own past.
If you have a thought about how this is ok please feel free
to state it.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Sep 19, 1998 at 12:33:01 (EDT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Ron Sherwood
Subject: Mr. Sherwood explains it all
Message:
I had the gift of life long before I even heard of M. The only thing he has done, as far as that gift is concerned, is try to take control of it. Why don't YOU think about it? Maybe YOU'LL be the one who surprises himself.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Sep 19, 1998 at 23:34:22 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Brian (Site Feedback)
Subject: In kindness
Message:
To close, let me express that all of this is from my heart

Mr. Sherwood,

Your letter better be from your heart because as an effort at communciation it makes no sense. Here are three dates for you -- August 17, 1998 (Clinton testifies); April 23, 1973 (I joined an eastern cult); August 24, 1991 (last day of the failed coup d'etat in the former Soviet Union). Plese allow these dates to stand for MY sincerity.

??
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Sep 18, 1998 at 22:09:17 (EDT)
From: Malibu Mole
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Contributions
Message:
Well Saturday, tomorrow's the day for the Contributors meeting here in Malibu. Amtexters are flying in to present Maharaji with the yearly $1 Million check. Other big contributors have also been invited. In fact, this is the only 'Doo' that Marilyn and Monica both publically attend at the Residence. I'll be attending and will report back to all.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Sep 18, 1998 at 22:26:08 (EDT)
From: Gail
Email: None
To: Malibu Mole
Subject: Contributions
Message:
Thanks for your input. I wonder if he's giving gold again tomorrow?
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Sep 18, 1998 at 21:07:42 (EDT)
From: Student
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Sneaking a peek
Message:
I guess it's been about four months since my last visit to the Forum. It's nice to see everyone still chasing their tails and rationalizing as much negativity as possible. Hope some of you (ex and current premies) have felt some personal evolution lately.

I might be de-evolving today. After all, I'm here. It's kind of like spelunking. It's interesting to see the sights, but I don't want to lose the exit.

Not long ago I set another goal, to live to 120. Anyone else have thoughts on longevity?
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Sep 18, 1998 at 21:33:14 (EDT)
From: Nigel
Email: nigel@red row.demon.co.uk
To: Student
Subject: Welcome back!
Message:
Hi Student,

We never finished our discussion, did we? (Shri Daddy and the Cosmic Kid). I asked you a few questions back in the spring and you kind of shrugged them off. Never mind.

If you're going to stick around, you certainly have your work cut out. Premies have been bunking off their forum-rota service lately. Somebody should have a word. A bit too hot in the kitchen, perhaps.

It's nice to see everyone still chasing their tails and rationalizing as much negativity as possible

You'll have to do better than that, for a start. How do you 'rationalize negativity?' I doesn't mean anything.

Hope some of you (ex and current premies) have felt some personal evolution lately.

I stopped noticably evolving about 50 thousand years ago. Or maybe you're ahead of us. If you mean: 'Are things going well?' - then it is a very definite 'Yes, thanks'. How are you?

When it comes to rationalization, though, how do you feel about those friendly words of encouragement from your 'meditation teacher' of which Jim has posted about seven or eight threads-worth down below?
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Sep 18, 1998 at 22:03:37 (EDT)
From: Student
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: Welcome back!
Message:
I can't say I'll stick around long. I never have been much for free-sparring. I prefer the art of solitary training.

Rationalizing negativity...I'm sorry to say I've seen too much of it in people close to me recently. To me, it is overanalyzing or dwelling on the most negative aspects of reality (events, personalities,... here it is characteristics of Maharaji's personality and speech).

I'm not usually like this, but the only motive I can figure is if we feel bad inside, we look for the same on the outside. Hence, it feels like we are rationalizing the negative that we are experiencing inside.

Noticably evolving...I don't equate this with 'Are things going well?' When things go the way I plan or, in some cases, better, things are going well. I am noticably evolving when my perspective, motivation, and productivity noticably improve for no APPARENT reason other than my continued willingness to learn and change.

If you want me to notice anything in particular below, I need you to be specific. I limit my time here.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Sep 18, 1998 at 22:30:33 (EDT)
From: nigel
Email: None
To: Student
Subject: the threads in question
Message:
Well I suppose it is just about possible to miss them (rather than pretend not to have seen them) when there only ten of them, one on top of the other.

But have a look at:

M never said to be fanatical
M on the danger of cults
M settles the grace q
M's history lesson
Lord? Did I say that?
Truly wise beyond his years
M's eve theory
Fear mongering? Nonsense
Grovel like a dog
Pressure? What pressure?

Don't worry, these posts contain nothing but M's words, so it can surely do you no harm to have a look.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Sep 19, 1998 at 00:20:20 (EDT)
From: Rick
Email: None
To: Student
Subject: Welcome back!
Message:
Noticably evolving...I don't equate this with 'Are things going well?' When things go the way I plan or, in some cases, better, things are going well. I am noticably evolving when my perspective, motivation, and productivity noticably improve for no APPARENT reason other than my continued willingness to learn and change.

Hey Student,
Smiles to you, Pal! Yes, I'm noticeably evolving. My perspective has definitely improved--that is, to say, it has become more accurate. That is what you mean by one's perspective is improving, right? More accurate, right?

Well, now I can see maharaji is a lying, cheating sack of shit! Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahah!
Your Brother,
Rick
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Sep 19, 1998 at 00:12:31 (EDT)
From: Rick
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: Welcome back!
Message:
Nigel,
Was that 'seven or eight threads worth down below' or 'seventh or eighth-grade education'?
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Sep 18, 1998 at 21:40:18 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Student
Subject: Peeing on a sneak
Message:
Hi Student,

Sorry about the subject. Keith made me do it telepathically. Or was that you?

Anyway, normally I wouldn't say anything to you because you're impossible to communicate with. But, this being Friday and all, I thought I'd ask you what 'rationalizing negativity' meant. Hm?

I'm not sure about living to be 120 but I do know that I've never yet met a person who spoke about 'negativity' as any sort of meaningful description of anything who wasn't a complete idiot. But that's just me, of course.

Listen, I haven't been around much myslef recently. I DID get a chance to post a few quotes from Maharaji. Did you read them? They boild down to this:

1) Maharaji emphatically explains that the techniques are worthless without his special sauce.

2) We are worthless lumps within inside his special sauce.

3) We ain't worth shit unless we do exactly what he tells us to, cuz he de man, Stan.

4) You're fucked cuz you're a student of the biggest goof on the planet.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Sep 18, 1998 at 22:06:11 (EDT)
From: Student
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Peeing on a sneak
Message:
You can consider me well fucked.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Sep 19, 1998 at 00:05:02 (EDT)
From: Runamok
Email: out of order
To: Student
Subject: Sneaking a pee
Message:
Hey bud, who the f*** you calling negative?
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Sep 18, 1998 at 22:12:59 (EDT)
From: nigel
Email: None
To: Student
Subject: Seen any good videos lately?
Message:
I mean, of course, videos that deal with real life.

I just watched 'The Full Monty' right through for the second time. Wonderful film. It works on two levels. There's the obvious level where it's just a light-hearted comedy about a gang of no-hoper male strippers, but on another level it is a tribute to something you might call the 'human spirit'. Not the 'spirit' that Keith keeps going on about, but something much more basic: just a search, against all the odds, for a bit of self-respect when circumstances have crapped on people in ways they never deserved.

>>>Self Respect.<<< That's what I found when I finally broke free of this ridiculous guru cult and, in many ways, that's what this forum is all about. I'm sure others here would agree.

(The film is bloody funny, as well. I seem to be the last person in the universe to have watched it.)
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Sep 19, 1998 at 00:23:37 (EDT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: nigel
Subject: Seen any good videos lately?
Message:
We haven't seen it yet either, Nigel. I am sure (?) this might make you feel better, although if you read the forum you will know that Peter and I are completely illiterate when it comes to popular culture. (We do read books.) Have gotten several good recommendations, though, and would love to see it, IF it is OUT IN VIDEO.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Sep 21, 1998 at 08:23:58 (EDT)
From: Diz
Email: None
To: nigel
Subject: Seen any good videos lately?
Message:
Hi Nigel, Katie

I've got huge gaps in my literacy, too, but I did see The Full Monty and I too loved it. For both the reasons you mentioned Nigel. I think you'll enjoy it, Katie. So good to have regained an appreciation of 'human spirit' which isn't 'spiritual'!

Diz
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Sep 21, 1998 at 10:18:50 (EDT)
From: Judith
Email: None
To: Diz
Subject: Seen any good videos lately?
Message:
I'd like to add 'There's something about Mary' really is funny. Its' rude but also very funny. Worth going to see.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Sep 19, 1998 at 06:16:26 (EDT)
From: hamzen
Email: None
To: Student
Subject: Living to 120
Message:
All cultures where more than a few people live to 120 are on raw food diets. See Leslie Kenton 'Raw Energy', loads of research in there not just new age bollocks.
Re personal evolution: I see more personal evolution and at speed on this site than I've ever seen anywhere. Honest discussion and openness ditto but most importantly I've seen more love here than any other group of people I've ever been around. Maybe if we all kept to the post by JW stating whether threads were on or off topic you could visit the the off-topic threads and find out for yourself.
There are a number of people here still into experiences of what some people would class as spiritual, including myself (although I hate the word spiritual), alternatively visit the MMT site which is evolving in that direction.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Sep 19, 1998 at 09:11:27 (EDT)
From: bill
Email: None
To: Student
Subject: Sneaking a peek
Message:
What does it matter how many days you are here when
the whole purpose of 18 billion years of evolution and
human development is just to sit and worship at the feet
of someone who claims to be the master of life?

Once you have had 'that experience', there is only to
live to have it again.

Why not skip right off a cliff to merge with the masters
'infinite form'?

Your having free will is only so you can give it 'straight away'
to the guru and be free of that pesky impulse to do your
own thing, ahh, to be free of the desire to live your own life,
to pursue your own way and actually own your life and
also own your own mind and freely tracking spirit.

Better to kill yourself in constant service with no self gain
and end you life knowing that you have at least tried to
please someone who claimed to be the lord of the universe.

Just don't ask him to tell you what your name is, he doesn't care
if he never saw his own mom from 74 till her death 17 years later.
How high do you rate?
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Sep 19, 1998 at 17:26:42 (EDT)
From: Student
Email: None
To: bill
Subject: Sneaking a peek
Message:
I am a dominant, selfish person. My profession is a very giving one, only because I selfishly crave the pleasure of giving. I do not agree with 'selfless acts,' except for the private act of practicing Knowledge. I refuse to sacrifice myself for anyone.

My service to the Master is for highly selfish reasons. If I evaluated the price (of offering time and money to Maharaji) as you do, I wouldn't give him a second of my time or a penny of my money. You are positive that I don't gain anything. But I am not only selfish, I am a frugal shopper. There's nothing like the thrill of getting an incredible bargain.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Sep 19, 1998 at 19:46:29 (EDT)
From: Bill
Email: None
To: Student
Subject: Just the facts.
Message:
Well, good to see an honest appraisal.

However, although it can be said that the urge to dominate
is in us, how you go about dominateing others determines
reactions and consequences.

If you think that this is all illusion and you have nothing to
be concerned about answering to besides yourself, you might
want to have another look at this life you are in.

Think about the biggest blow you have taken to date, wasn't
very fun was it?
Stung deeply, staggering around in grief, it didn't have to
be that way.
Life is not some victim oblivious to your relationship with it.
You don't believe in 'selfless acts' but look at those in the india
ashrams. THOSE birds are not being let out of the cage.

The incredible thrill in life is getting an incredible bargin?
Getting an army of servants must have been a thrill,
You really think that it is of no consequence HOW
that army was brought together?
As long as the money train continues-THAT is the validation?
You are not the only one that thinks this is a playground
with no Monitor.
Only those that don't believe in god think that any
behaviour is ok.
You have no devotion to any master. That is just another
pretense on your part.
You lie to your own self.
The 'master' you refer to is one of your own construction.
The devil knows not for whom he works.

Sure, people have been designed with enough innocence that
we make great suckers for anything. We have been designed
with enough fog to walk through life gropeing for understanding.
The reason is not so we can be tricked into others
domination, but the need for the god's help can be evident.
YOU are proudly proclaiming your selfish domination without
fear of anything.
Just the type of thing to make any mother proud.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Sep 19, 1998 at 19:58:27 (EDT)
From: hamzen
Email: None
To: Bill
Subject: Just the facts.
Message:
Thanks for that Bill, I too was very Studentish in my approach for a long time & still have way too much of it.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Sep 19, 1998 at 21:03:02 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Bill
Subject: Just the facts.
Message:
Right on, Bill. Right on.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Sep 20, 1998 at 23:46:36 (EDT)
From: Bill
Email: None
To: Student
Subject: Student is a narcissist
Message:
For narcissists, control serves the same function as power,
it protects them from possible humiliation.
First, they control themselves by denying those feelings
that might make them vulnerable. But they also have to
control situations in which they find themselves; they have to
make sure that there is no possibility that some other person
will have power over them.
Power and control together work to protect the individual
from feeling vulnerable, from feeling powerless to prevent
a possible humiliation.

He denies his feelings, tries to project an image of invulnerability,
and superiority, and strives for power and domination of others.

The book 'Narcissism-Denial of the true self' states:
'What are the qualities highlighted by these people?
A simple listing includes (1) 'I can do anything' (omnipotence),
(2) I am visible everywhere' (omnipresence),
(3) 'I know everything' (omniscience),
(4) 'I am to be worshiped.'
These, of course, are attributes of a god. On some deep
level, narcissists, and especially psychopathetic
personalities, see themselves as little gods. Too often,
unfortunately, thier followers look up to them in that light, too.'

Right out of the book.
Student(maharaji) fits it completely wouldn't you say?
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Sep 21, 1998 at 01:51:46 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Bill
Subject: Student is a narcissist
Message:
Bill,

You crack me up. Really, as if there was anything the least bit distinctive about Student to warrant your belief that he's our own private Kim Il Jung in drag. I mean, honestly Bill, you could SPECULATE a bit, I guess. But to wander so far out on the limb with so little reason -- frankly, that seems ridiculous.

Student, as far as I see, hasn't said anything that distinguishes him from a multitude of gurunoids. It IS a cult, don't forget.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Sep 21, 1998 at 09:20:40 (EDT)
From: bill
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Student is a narcissist
Message:
You fergit students previous comments and also,
his comments are not like the other gurunoids. Look at
Ron, they sound like him or early Kieth or at the most
angry or tuff, like classic Mili.
This guy is definately a rare twisted mutant in a catagory by
himself. He is the same one that always comes here and
declares his superiourity and shows his distain.
Also, rawat has made other comments about being a
genius shopper and getting good deals. Who else even thinks like this guy?

Rawat is always on the superiourity attack mode around
others. He won't let anyone get an equal thing going with him
unless it fits into his momentary needs.

The above post was maharaji's honest actual view of his
relationship with this life.

Dont fergit, those up close end up like Ann, and David smith,
and Raja ji going around talking about humility to the master.
And don't forget Marolyns pathetic state of mind and her
endureing the blatent fucking around by her evil
husband.
And those less close are like the ones we get here, Ron makes
what HE thinks is a really smart post and of course it is
very weak and not at all what he hopes it is.

The only one that is as brazen and self absorbed as student
is our very own lord rawat.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Sep 21, 1998 at 11:23:42 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: bill
Subject: Student is a narcissist
Message:
Bill,

All of your points are barely enough to support your SPECULATION that Student is Maharaji. But nothing more. The fact is, I can imagine all sorts of premies talking like him. Jumping to the conclusion you have on such scanty evidence is essentially irrational.

Put it this way: if you happened to find out who Student was and he DIDN'T turn out to be Maharaji, I don't think you'd be all that surprised. A little maybe, but not much.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Sep 22, 1998 at 00:41:55 (EDT)
From: bill
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Student is a narcissist
Message:
Well, I leave him to you guys to bat around.
He does show up here under some different names.
I will sit out the next couple rounds with him and let you guys
contend with his posts.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Sep 19, 1998 at 15:16:38 (EDT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Student
Subject: Sneaking a peek
Message:
Actually, I think you are rationalizing our rebellion by calling it negativity. It goes beyond just being negative. M promised so much and delivered so little. If he had just said that this Knowledge might not be for everybody, instead of continuously demanding more effort, more effort, endless effort, leading me on to believe that sooner or later, I'll get it, maybe I wouldn't be so negative about it. He played me for a sucker for 18 years, and I'm a little pissed off about that. I'm pissed off at him, and pissed off at myself. But, ultimately, I'm more pissed off at him. I was guileless in my attempts to realize Knowledge and he was just stringing me along for as long as he could, making no attempt to be honest with me that, maybe, it just wouldn't work for me. Now, he's telling people, if they don't like it to take a walk. Well, ain't that real compassionate of him? These days, it could take years for a person to receive Knowledge, the aspirant process being what it is, and after all that devotion to just getting K, M has the gall to tell that person take a walk if he doesn't like it? Does that make sense to you? He should make it that much easier to receive K if that's the case. Maybe he just wants to make sure people are as thoroughly brainwashed as they could possibly be by the time they receive Knowledge. I just hope that aspirants can think well enough for themselves what this last stance of M's indicates, that they are indeed in the process of being brainwashed, so ultimately, they won't trust their own thoughts, but those of the ones that are conditioning them.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Sep 19, 1998 at 16:31:01 (EDT)
From: bill
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: Sneaking a peek
Message:
I don't know if he will respond to you but that was a very good
point and well stated also.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Sep 18, 1998 at 13:07:20 (EDT)
From: Becky
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Been away Jim
Message:
Sorry Jim, I have extremely limited access to PCs now, so am not able to answer immediately. I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings with things that I have said. That is certainly not my aim. Perhaps one gets a little carried away.
I PROMISE you that this weekend I shall go and find all the mentions of sperm and embryo in the Qur'an. There is also the world 'atom' in the Qur'an that I want to check out.
This isn't always fun for me you know. Sometimes I get quite bored of discussing this with you.
If you say I'm defending iSLAM can I say that you are defending materialism? Words eh? I'm not playing hide and seek; I'm just not accepting your definition of what I am doing.
As for Maharaji: that's a different kettle of poisson. For example: he discourages people from reading books. He makes sure that people only accept information from him. Islam encourages and exhorts people to gain knowledge, scientific knowledge included.
Maharaji does not exactly encourage people to lead full healthy lives (belittling things such as jobs and family - making them out to be irritating little commitments in comparison to the BIG commitment of Knowledge). Maharaji is making shit loads of cash out of many poor and emotionally inadequate premies. Muhammad died in poverty, giving away all that he had. Maharaji is a control freak (friends who did service in Malibu said they had to call him 'sir'), Muhammad hated being made much of and emphasised that he was a man just like his companions. the whole history of Muhammad completely squashes that of Maharaji. Maharaji is a dishonest pipsqueak salesman, cashing in on people's desire for 'happiness' (actually making us forget that we are probably happy already), creating in our minds the idea of a 'thirst' (so that we come to him for replenishment) I could go on, but I'm sure you get my driftos.
Must dash. Will be back in about a week.
Bon chance mon petit cheri. Abientot!
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Sep 18, 1998 at 13:14:39 (EDT)
From: Becky
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Trial etc
Message:
PS. What I mean by judging without trial is as follows: you've been through the whole Maharaji experience, checked it out, checked him out, questioned, assessed, lived through it, know all the the details, the set up, the history etc. I would say that therefore you are qualified to judge. His trial was your experience.
You haven't lived, experienced or found out much about Islam. Therefore your judgement is not fully qualified. My judgement is as yet not fully formed, because, as I've said before, I'm still learning alot about Islam. Until I know about it thoroughly I shall not dis it.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Sep 18, 1998 at 13:59:44 (EDT)
From: Abdul
Email: None
To: Becky
Subject: Been away Jim
Message:
In Afganistan they want to make the -Sharia Laws- the
main law of the country. Only problem is, there are
72 muslim sects, each of whom believe thier interpretation is the
right one.

If there is a muslim god, which of the afgani sects come closest
to pleaseing the big oaf?
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Sep 18, 1998 at 11:51:24 (EDT)
From: Bal Bhagwan Ji is back,
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: and understand the Word of God
Message:
Read the sum of his teaching, and finally understand everything you've never understood about the Word of God:

To See God : 'Guru Maharaj Ji is giving us a better understanding of the Bible.'

Questions to Bal Bhagwan Ji : 'The Word plays its part in the creation by descending and ascending from latent to potent and from potent to latent, whereby the action and the reaction neutralise and exist as essence like the plus one and the minus one, that is negative and positive electron and positron both collide to annihilate matter known as anabolic and catabolic process in metabolism.'

The Answer to the Big Problem : 'Our capacity is small; physics is small. To see beyond physics, we need paraphysics, or metaphysics......Because God is doing certain things which we cannot do.'

This Energy is Immortal : 'Guru is the potential manifestation of the kinetic energy of the cosmos!' ...'When a devotee, behaving like an iron piece simply prostrates before the Satguru, the Satguru, like the magnet, induces spirituality into him, and he also becomes a magnet, he also becomes spiritually enlightened.'

At ....

BBJ's astounding theories on my website!

Jean-Michel
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Sep 18, 1998 at 16:15:47 (EDT)
From: nigel
Email: nigel@redcrow.demon.co.uk
To: Bal Bhagwan Ji is back,
Subject: carbolic metabollocks
Message:
The Word plays its part in the creation by descending and ascending from latent to potent and from potent to latent, whereby the action and the reaction neutralise and exist as essence like the plus one and the minus one, that is negative and positive electron and positron both collide to annihilate matter known as anabolic and catabolic process in metabolism

These scientific profundities seem to run in the family, don't they? BBJ at least tries to pitch it at a level that might baffle the unwary. You could almost believe it meant something.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Sep 18, 1998 at 16:49:12 (EDT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: nigel
Subject: Vitriolic Manybuttocks (nt)
Message:
nt
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Sep 18, 1998 at 16:51:42 (EDT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: nigel
Subject: carbolic metabollocks
Message:
Hey, Nigel, that's the Incarnation of Divine Intelligence you're talking about. Show some respect. He makes perfect sense. Unfortunately, people with only common sense haven't got the slightest idea what he's talking about.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Sep 18, 1998 at 17:50:02 (EDT)
From: Nigel
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: carbolic metabollocks
Message:
Hey, Nigel, that's the Incarnation of Divine Intelligence you're talking about.

So, if he's that clever, how come he left out yin and yang?
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Sep 17, 1998 at 23:23:05 (EDT)
From: Gail
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Atlantic City
Message:
I think I will go to the video when the Atlantic City one is shown. A premie friend mentioned that he comes on very clearly like the Lord of the Universe. She feels that he has become the quiet one (meditation teacher) to rid us of our feelings of guilt. Apparently, that's why decided to change the K to formal practice only. No snacking on #3 (holy name) and #4 (nectar) anymore!\

Hell, I don't know. I guess I'll eavesdrop.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Sep 18, 1998 at 14:22:07 (EDT)
From: Sir D
Email: David.Studio57@btinternet.com
To: Gail
Subject: Atlantic City
Message:
So the Lord spake and did manifest unto the people in Atlantic City. A pity that most of the world's population were somewhere else.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Sep 18, 1998 at 16:14:20 (EDT)
From: RT
Email: mmmmmmmm
To: Gail
Subject: Is this Phase 2?
Message:
Hi Gail.

Just got a letter from a premie who knows I quit. Letter says:
'Do you really want to miss the abundance of joy, magic & synchronicity many are experiencing since PHASE 2 has begun, with Guru M? It's never been this energised before.'

What is PHASE 2-no snacking on meditation? Comments welcome. As for me, I am going to practise again since May 10, 1998 so I can think about my day and grab that joyful synchronicity that many are experiencing.

RT who wonders if Kabir would use the Internet.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Sep 18, 1998 at 16:52:26 (EDT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: RT
Subject: It's
Message:
RT: Phase 2 is the new addition to his home. A larger swimming pool to make the 'energized' charnamrit and two new Mercedes (just in case one of them breaks, ya know).... snicker snicker...
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Sep 18, 1998 at 19:15:43 (EDT)
From: Gail
Email: None
To: RT
Subject: Now Kabir this...
Message:
No RT! Lucky you!

Actually, my friend said that it is JUST INCREDIBLE THESE DAYS. Apparently, IT'S THE BEST YET. Where have we heard this before? It sounds like MJ is packing the wool over people's eyes thick and heavy.

She says this is a don't-miss type of video. Maybe you should go, too? I guess the Lord is rearing his ugly head again.

I told her that I'd signed up to be with the Lord and MJ had turned into a meditation teacher. She did fault him for his soft-sell for years, but she assured me that the volume had been turned up. She said it was incredible in other places--just like it used to be here. MJ bellowed that this gift was the KNOWLEDGE OF ALL KNOWLEDGES and that he was the ALL POWERFUL GIVER.

He also told people to take a walk if they weren't happy. I guess that's all of us.

How is this for diacotomies: I was miserable following that fortune hunter, and I am miserable now that the possibility of divine intervention is gone. The only intervention I'm expecting is increased government control.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Sep 18, 1998 at 19:39:01 (EDT)
From: JW
Email: None
To: Gail
Subject: IT's Because of US!
Message:
Gail, I think he's going to sell himself again as the Lord of the Universe because we exes, on this website, are reminding everyone that he used to claim to be god. So, what the hell, maybe he figures he might as well start being god again, since he can't pretend he didn't do all that in the past. Just a theory.

I also used to tell people who had left the cult that 'it is different now,' or that 'it's just so incredible now,' both in an attempt to con someone into believing that it used to be a cult but isn't anymore, or to try to make them think they were REALLY missing something. This was said more to quell my own doubts than to convince the person of anything. I guess premies are still pretty much the same when it comes to that.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Sep 18, 1998 at 20:43:00 (EDT)
From: John Hammond-Smyth
Email: padded.cell@asylum.com
To: JW
Subject: IT's Because of US!
Message:
Maharaji always WAS the supreme Godhead, Almighty God in human form. I always knew he was and he used to tell us this back in the seventies when he told us about when THAT God comes. For we are just microbes at his lotus feet, nay, even smaller, for we do not deserve to breathe the same air or even wallow in the same filth that our Lord may glance at, in his mercy.

For verily I say unto you, the time is coming soon when a great strange thing will happen, many far out things will happen, and people will know who is God and not only that but they will know that God exists. For mine eyes have seen the glory of the coming of the Lord.

And verily I say unto you, those who are driving into the car-wash will be taken up and nobody knows the time or the place of his coming. Yea, even unto Bill Clinton and Monica, the seventh seal will be opened and his knowledge shall be spread unto the four corners of the earth. And many will say, he is here, in Atlantic City or he is here, in Malibu, but he shall come upon the clouds and every eye shall see him and he shall send forth his messengers, even unto David Smith and I heard the sound of seven trumpets announcing the coming of the son of man, even unto CNN and the BBC. And behold, his devotees shine like stars in the heavens unto Sky and cable TV for now is the winter of our discontent, yea, to be or not to be the Lord? That is the question.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Sep 18, 1998 at 21:04:12 (EDT)
From: Larkin
Email: larkin@redcrow.demon.co.uk
To: John Hammond-Smyth
Subject: final days
Message:
for lo! the day is hast'ning on
by angel bards foretold
when grace shall grace His bank account
with pots of premie gold
the seventh seal will bark once more
and grunt its 'bhole shri'
the seven strumpets hold their tongues
- he's paid them off, you see -
and we shall be but grains of sand
so happy for the chance
to brush against those lotus feet
in one vast cosmic dance
the piper at the gates of dawn
returns to hamlyn city
to lead the kids to kingdom come
(and here endeth my ditty)
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Sep 18, 1998 at 21:39:23 (EDT)
From: Gail
Email: None
To: Larkin
Subject: final days
Message:
I love your ditty!
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Sep 19, 1998 at 18:31:49 (EDT)
From: RT
Email: mmmm
To: Larkin
Subject: final daze
Message:
Hi ya Larkin!
Ye be harkin'
that the divine spark in
side is a darkening...

for He made his mark in
secret cultic barkin.
So brainwashing is gotten
with: Opto-Mystic barfing.

:)

RT Who is writing a short narration:
Prachar Dreck: The Ex-Generation!
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Sep 19, 1998 at 22:38:17 (EDT)
From: Robyn
Email: sundogs@hotmail.com
To: Larkin
Subject: final days
Message:
Dear Larkin,
Thanks for the poem, brilliant as usuall! I have been thinking much about you lately. Glad you paid a visit.
Love,
Robyn
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Sep 19, 1998 at 17:40:27 (EDT)
From: Laura
Email: None
To: John in a cell
Subject: IT's Because of US!
Message:
I really am very sad so much of the time -i'm still being filled up with the realization that i've wasted so much of my life believing in something that wasn't real - and so I thank you for writing such a funny post - it made me laugh through my tears!
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Sep 19, 1998 at 20:30:42 (EDT)
From: John Hammond-Smyth
Email: David.Studio57@btinternet.com
To: Laura
Subject: Hey hey Laura
Message:
You never did email me again and when I emailed you, my email came back saying that the address was no longer valid. So drop me an email, my email address is on the headers to this post. Yes of course, John Hammond-Smyth is really me.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Sep 19, 1998 at 23:13:40 (EDT)
From: Robyn
Email: sundogs@hotmail.com
To: Laura
Subject: Laura
Message:
Dear Laura,
Please don't feel so bad about those wasted years and let your saddness over BM's trick let you waste more of your time, you future. The best revenge is living well!
Live well.
Love,
Robyn
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Sep 19, 1998 at 23:39:03 (EDT)
From: bill
Email: None
To: Laura
Subject: Laura
Message:
Hi Laura,

No doubt it is a bummer,but your innocence and sincerity
has left you rich in some ways and don't overlook them.

Life can make it up to you and you can chart a new course.

We are here for you. What would you like to talk about?
When my freind lost thier dog, they right away got a new one to
fill the hole and shorten thier feeling of loss.

Perhaps there is some way to get new footing in your life
asap? A new love interest? Some other interests to blot out
our past? Some way to ask the god (the evil prem rawat was
pretending to be) for help in this great betrayal of trust and
faith.

Some say a therapist can be crucial help.
Sometimes telling your story can be good.

Your thoughts and feelings as you go through this are not
-off topic- but part of what this main forum is about.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Sep 19, 1998 at 22:50:36 (EDT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: John Hammond-Smyth
Subject: IT's Because of US!
Message:
Hi John H-S,
Robyn et al. already complimented Larkin, so I'll have to say that your post was one of your best ever. How DO you think of this stuff? It's mind-boggling.
Still laughing,
Katie

P.S. Verily it IS because of US! Ha ha!
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Sep 19, 1998 at 23:25:27 (EDT)
From: Robyn
Email: sundogs@hotmail.com
To: John Hammond-Smyth
Subject: IT's Because of US!
Message:
Dear Sir Hammond-Smyth,
You should take it on the road with RT and Larkin. An Evening of Improv with the Ex-Followers of The Lord of the Universe! Can't you see the marque!
Love,
Robyn
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Sep 17, 1998 at 20:06:28 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: M never said to be fanatical
Message:
Here's from the last night in Rome, 1977:

'I mean it's like, I think to sum it all up it comes down into one simple thing. If I were a premie and I had a job the only reason why I would work and save up some money is to be able to go to festivals. I mean that really sums it up. Why? Because, yes, you are going into this world.

Wou know, it's like you're walking into the fire with a fire suit on. To be able to come, to be able to make yourself stronger and stronger and stronger and stronger, so that when the time comes then Guru Maharaj Ji can give you the grace of becoming an intiator; if not an initiator, of giving you any service. You know?'
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Sep 18, 1998 at 13:38:11 (EDT)
From: JW
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: To Brian/JM
Message:
I vote that this quote go someplace permanently on the site, or maybe JM's site. I think this is important, and I remember M saying it.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Sep 19, 1998 at 03:20:12 (EDT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: M never said: bla bla
Message:
I guess i'd like to have a page like that:

M never said I am God: quotes
M never said to be fanatical: quotes
M never said Kiss my Lotus Feet: quotes
M never said Give me all your money: quotes
M never said Premies You're all Stupid: quotes

etc
etc

some ideas ?
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Sep 18, 1998 at 13:55:38 (EDT)
From: Way
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: M never said to be fanatical
Message:
Since you are on the subject of Rome 1977, what about the St. John vs. John the Baptist error? I'm seriously doubt that error was ever printed but it might have been included on the audio cassette. Also, I seem to remember a satsang around 1978-80 in which M. claimed, in rather vague terms, to have brought a person back from the dead. Remember??
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Sep 18, 1998 at 14:08:39 (EDT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: I remember
Message:
Way: I remember the 'back from the dead' incident supposedly occurred in India. The story goes that during a darshan, a lady ran up to M with a 'dead' baby. A doctor was supposedly following close behind, trying to get the lady to release the baby. She laid the baby at M's feet and M was supposed to have said, 'that baby's not dead!' At which time the baby started moving and everyone, including the doctor(???), were supposed to have said the M brought the baby back from the dead and they all didi pranam.... it gets cloudy from here, but that is what I remember of the story. Hope it helps to ring some memory chimes in a few folks, so they can fill in the holes.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Sep 18, 1998 at 17:09:46 (EDT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Mike
Subject: Do you remember this?
Message:
Anybody remember the rainbow cloud? I forget the details and wasn't at the event, myself, but I know that premies in New York couldn't stop gawking about it when they returned. Everybody was certain that M had created it. Anybody remember this?
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Sep 18, 1998 at 17:39:57 (EDT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: Yes, unfortunately I DO
Message:
Jerry: It was at Hans Jayanti in Orlando in 1976(?). He was talking at the 'public' presentation and he said something to the effect that, 'if the lord were sitting here, then he could make rainbows appear at the sweep of his arm.' (May not be the exact words, but that was the gist of it). He said this as he was sweeping his arm across the sky and....god I hate this.... the sky was absolutely clear of clouds, but there it was, a beautiful rainbow. BUT... there was a lake close by that could have supplied the moisture necessary to produce a rainbow on a clear day. Everyone was watching him at the time, so I don't think anyone would have noticed a rainbow forming overhead until he pointed it out with the arm-sweep.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Sep 18, 1998 at 19:04:10 (EDT)
From: Mickey the Pharisee
Email: None
To: Mike
Subject: Yes, unfortunately I DO
Message:
Sheesh, I remember that! At the time I thought that it had to do with the Big M, but later, back home, I thought that perhaps it had to do with polarized sunglasses or the lake. But, yeah, I was there for that 'miracle.'
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Sep 18, 1998 at 19:23:56 (EDT)
From: Gail
Email: None
To: Mickey the Pharisee
Subject: Somewhere under the rainbow
Message:
I was there! I mentioned this a few months ago and people said it never happened. It did! It was November, 1975, two days before the Edmund Fitzgerald went down on Lake Superior.

Even the cop stand next to me was totally amazed. It's just one of those unexplained things that helped MJ get his jet, house, concubines and Swiss Bank Accounts.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Sep 18, 1998 at 19:50:52 (EDT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Gail
Subject: Not imagining things!
Message:
Gail: Thanks for correcting the year on my post. I wasn't sure if it was 75 or 76, so I took a stab at it. I'm sorry I didn't see your original post or I would have backed you up on this one. Yes, it did happen. You weren't imagining things.... ;-)
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Sep 18, 1998 at 20:15:04 (EDT)
From: CD
Email: None
To: Gail
Subject: Somewhere under the rainbow
Message:
A friend of mine asked M about the rainbow at a public program in Santa Monica a few years ago.
I never took the rainbow as a miracle. I did think that the whole event was great including the Hotel Life play.
Speaking of cops, it was the only time I ever got a friendly lift in a police car while hitchhiking. That was a miracle - g.

CD
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Sep 19, 1998 at 14:35:36 (EDT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: CD
Subject: Somewhere under the rainbow
Message:
A friend of mine asked M about the rainbow at a public program in Santa Monica a few years ago.

And... ?
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Sep 19, 1998 at 06:44:45 (EDT)
From: hamzen
Email: None
To: everyone
Subject: Yes, unfortunately I DO
Message:
About ten years ago I was going through a very trippy phrase, was on the London underground with someone who didn't believe anything about synchronicity. I said to her 'that god could shut down the underground system anytime', and low and behold the underground train instantly stopped, shortly followed by an announcement that the whole of the northern line had got power failure.
If you would like to send me all of your money I would be more than happy to connect you to god, if I could remember the number.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Sep 21, 1998 at 10:38:54 (EDT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: hamzen
Subject: Uh, uh.... :-)
Message:
Ham: Nope, I ain't sendin' money..... he he he. :-)
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Sep 19, 1998 at 19:18:52 (EDT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: Maharaji's rainbow??
Message:
I remember the rainbow 'miracle' at Orlando 1975. Even though I was a pretty devoted premie at the time, I didn't think it was all that miraculous. For one thing, it was a small piece of a rainbow that appeared in the sky - not a full arch. This is otherwise known as a 'sundog' (ask Robyn for details) and is fairly common if you live in Florida because there is so much water vapor in the air there. I do remember all the premies ooohing and aahing, but I don't remember M mentioning anything about rainbows right at that moment (maybe I just wasn't listening?). Anyway, I wasn't impressed - just thought it was a neat coincidence. (I was probably IN MY MIND at the time...)

P.S. to Chris: I don't remember the play 'Hotel Life', but I do remember that some of the ashram premies I knew produced a simulated scene of people smoking dope - complete with smell and everything. When I asked them how I did it, they said that they were just burning peppermint tea (it works).
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Sep 18, 1998 at 14:21:19 (EDT)
From: bill
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: M never said to be fanatical
Message:
Yes he did claim to have been at someones house and
the child was dead or that is how m told the story, he said
that the doctor was yelling to m that the kid was dead and
m said she was sleeping and that the doctor was like
argueing with the ultimate power god.

supposidly the kid woke up.
I guess Mili will be pleased with the upbeat ending but how
likely is the story in the first place?

He also said 'the difference between a human being and the
perfect master, is that the perfect master knows what is going to
happen to him next.'
Again, a thrill for Mili, but if so, m managed to overlook his mom,s
death, and a host of other things. He also managed to
be stoned or sleeping when the foresight to know that his lies
would come to haunt him came across the divine screen.

Surely he overlooked the future when he approved J.M.
to be an instructor.
Now J.M. is the instructor supreme.
The only one with integrity.
The only one with clarity, guts, honesty, spirit.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Sep 18, 1998 at 14:45:12 (EDT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: bill
Subject: M never said to be fanatical
Message:
Bill: Thanks for the clarification of the story. Mine was pretty sketchy, at best. I just remember how everyone 'ooo'd' and 'awww'd' while it was being told during satsang. The story was accepted as ABSOLUTE truth by the people I was around. I swear that I can still hear the spontaneous, quiet little 'prayers' that began after that story was told.....
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Sep 18, 1998 at 18:18:44 (EDT)
From: Nigel
Email: None
To: Mike & Bill
Subject: Exatcly: Just stories....
Message:
I mean, the fact that the two versions are so different for a start.

But who cares about details, eh? The main point is surely that the Lord is here and can actually do these things.

Serious point: M always tended not to make claims about his miraculous powers (apart from that undeniably remarkable power of his to inject all that divine Grace into the otherwise mundane initiation ritual when the initiator tells the aspirants where to stick their fingers)

But he knew damn well these stories were being passed around and retold in satsang every night, but never once made any public denial (of the Batman and Robin variety: 'We have no wings. We cannot fly. Don't try. And listen kids, if either one of us tried to jump off a rooftop...').
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Sep 18, 1998 at 18:39:01 (EDT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: Exactly: Just nonsense
Message:
Nigel: It all comes back to that horse we keep beating to death: personal responsibility and integrity. M has neither.... Thank goodness that this fact is visible to us, at the very least.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Sep 18, 1998 at 19:01:52 (EDT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: An aside
Message:
Nigel: To borrow one of your recent phrases...I think I will 'bend' some cutlery this weekend....snicker snicker. The only difference between me and geller is that I do it honestly while I'm trying to cook while hiking in the mountains... he he he. Have a great weekend.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Sep 18, 1998 at 19:12:54 (EDT)
From: nigel
Email: nigel@redcrow etc
To: Mike
Subject: You too, Mike (nt)
Message:
ommmm.....
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Sep 19, 1998 at 10:24:59 (EDT)
From: bill
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: Exatcly: Just stories....
Message:
actually, m TOLD that story at an event.
He said it was at the indian residence.
More as I remember.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Sep 19, 1998 at 17:49:43 (EDT)
From: Laura
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: M never said to be fanatical
Message:
You quote GMJ, 'I mean it's like . . . you know it's like . . . , you know?' etc. Part of my job is proof reading and it cracks me up that I used to listen to this nonsense, believe it, and worse yet, want it more than anything else in the world.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Sep 17, 1998 at 19:59:29 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: M on the danger of cults
Message:
Also from November 12, 1977 in Rome:

'So premies, what ir really boils down to is that we have to really, really try to surrender to Guru Maharaj Ji, try to let ourselves to Guru Maharaj Ji, try to let ourselves be with Guru Maharaj Ji. And now what am I talking about? I'm not talking about go to a move theatre. I'm not talking about go sit in a taxi cab. I'm not talking about go to Siberia. I'm talking about be with Guru Maharaj Ji, surrender yourself to Guru Maharaj Ji, be in Guru Maharaj Ji's world. What is Guru Maharaj Ji's world? What does Guru Maharaj Ji's world consist of? You know, it's within inside of us, it's within inside each one of us. Each one has that Guru Maharaj Ji's world inside of them. And what this Guru Maharaj Ji's world is, it's ourselves, but we can only get there by the grace of Guru Maharaj Ji, when we surrender to Guru Maharaj Ji. And that's why it Guru Maharaj Ji's world, because all there is is Guru Maharaj Ji's grace, again and again and again and again and again and again.'
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Sep 17, 1998 at 19:50:28 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Maharaji settles the grace q
Message:
Here's the goitered piggy on November 12, 1977 in Rome:

'You know, some people might say, 'Well, anybody can tell this Knowledge to anybody.' Oh yeah, sure, in the German newspaper a long time ago, in the German magazine, they have disclsoed everything. And I am pretty sure that people sat down and tried it out. What else have they got to do? They see something, se the name, name is like the guarantee, the name is like the good thing behind the product, and there they are and they go, 'Oh man great, this is mission, this is what they say, this is what they do.' Amd on the other hand, I am a hundred per cent positive they didn't get one bean worth out of it. Because that's not the wy it works. It's just not the way it works. It's only by Guru Maharaj Ji's grace. And that's a fact. That is my own realization, that is what I think really happens.'
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Sep 17, 1998 at 19:13:43 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Maharaji's history lesson
Message:
This one's from Auckland, New Zealand, October 24, 1974:

'If we start at the beginning, man came into this world and the whole thing and then there were kingdoms. There was never a time in those kingdoms and neither is there a time in these kingdoms when everything is peace and quiet. As I said, everything is in a mess. And sometimes, because man is not strong enough, he does not want to face it. He does not want to face how much he is in a mess, or how many problems he has got, or all these things. He doesn't wnat to face it.'
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Sep 17, 1998 at 19:31:46 (EDT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: THE fix for every mess
Message:
Jim: So what I'm hearing here is: That to fix everything that's in a 'mess' in this world, we should sit on the floor, pull a blanky over our heads and pinch our eyeballs.... I can see that (no pun intended)... makes sense to me... It's so EASY, why didn't we think of that. Gosh... there's a starving person, pinch your eyeballs, quick...Ahhhh, see, no more starvation. Yup, no doubt about it...It works....
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Sep 18, 1998 at 19:47:47 (EDT)
From: CD
Email: None
To: Mike
Subject: THE fix for every mess
Message:
The idea is that if people can have an experience of their humanness beyond their thoughts, then compassion for other people can increase. People do have the potential to work physical wonders when the artificial barriers which our belief systems conjur up are ignored. This phenomenon is well known in times of natural disasters and major calamities such as wars when people are forced to deal with terrible problems on a grand scale.
Your example of the problem of starvation is certainly something that does have a workable solution if it were not for our political and social divisions and daily personal greed. If people do not have the motivation to give and share then no 'solution' will fix the problem.
I will admit that looking at the current state of affairs, the prospects for a better world for all look pretty bleak. Yet, I prefer to hang on to optimistic hope. I certainly need to do a lot of work to improve my role in the outcome.

CD
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Sep 18, 1998 at 20:03:55 (EDT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: CD
Subject: THE fix for every mess
Message:
CD: My point is that YOU are a good person, no matter whether you pinch those eyeballs or not. I don't think that the meditation makes you a better person than you already were/are. In fact, I think it can get in the way of the person that you want to become. Human-ness has nothing to do with the attempt to go out-of-your-mind. In fact, that attempt could well turn you into the proverbial vegetable. Sitting under a blanket and pinching the eyeballs DOESN'T feed the hungry. Gathering the support, collecting the food and delivering it to the hungry is what gets that done. It takes WORK to fix the problems, not 'hiding' from the world while underneath a blanket. Sounds like the ostrich treatment to me: Close your eyes, hide under a blanket and do absolutely nothing. Sounds like the master plan for world peace, doesn't it? NOT!

- Sorry CD, but that's the way I see it. I've seen alot of people meditate, dedicate and prostrate. Not one of them was a better person because of it.... ME INCLUDED! All we did was waste our valuable time; time that could have been spent becoming a better person in REALITY. :-)
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Sep 18, 1998 at 22:33:21 (EDT)
From: Judith
Email: None
To: Mike
Subject: THE fix for every mess
Message:
Well said, Mike.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Sep 17, 1998 at 20:03:25 (EDT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Maharaji's history lesson
Message:
Wasn't the peace bomb supposed to clean up the mess? What happenned?
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Sep 17, 1998 at 19:02:18 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: 'Lord'? Did I say that?
Message:
Here's the overgrown gopher on Novermber 9, 1975 in Orlando again:

'What we really have to know is that though we push oursleves away from our Lord, knowingly or unknowingly, He, becuase He is all merciful, walks closer to us Himself. And He does. It is a proven fact. When everybody was looking the other way, when everybody was confused, when everybody did not know what was going on, Jesus Christ, our Lord, came to us. We did not fly up to heaven to Him. He came to us, on this earth, to save us, to protect us. And He did not go through one misery; He went throush thousands of them. For whom? For us. Our Lord comes to us. Though we by our mistakes push Him away, He comes to us. And then when He does, we try to push Him again, because of that mistake we always make.'
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Sep 17, 1998 at 19:07:19 (EDT)
From: Mickey the Pharisee
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Please, send your...
Message:
love gifts to: Guru Maharaj-ji, Christian Evangelist.
I'd love a gift of several thousand dollars. And for your love gift of several thousand dollars, Guru Maharaj-ji, Chrisitan Evangelist, will ignore you until he needs more money. Please, brothers and sisters, send in your tax-free contributions today!
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Sep 17, 1998 at 19:25:58 (EDT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Mickey the Pharisee
Subject: Please, send your...
Message:
Guru Mariachi: you aren't even going to pray for me when I give you all my money? Man, what a jip! Even that Jim Baker guy could fake a prayer once in a while. OH..Wait... I'm in my mind. Here... let me go out-of-my-mind (isn't that called, 'insane?') and try again....okee dokee I'll send you all my money cuz you are the lord and you told me to do it and I 'owe you' SO MUCH GRATITUDE for everything you have given me! By the way, what was that gift you gave me called, again????
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Sep 17, 1998 at 18:44:48 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Truly wise beyond his years
Message:
Here's Maharaji on the 'illusion of death' in India, 1972. He drifts into some general psychological advice:

'Because there is nothing like death. What are you? You were never created, you were composed out of elements. When these things were composed and sustained by energies, you became alive. And when these things disintegrate, you will be dead. So actually death doesn't exist. It is just these elements building, composing, and disintegrating. So understand the third dimension, the dimesnion beyond space and time. This is reality.

Now there are some people who are probably almost freaking out. And they're freaking out because they have certain feelings. They think certain things. But I do not understand it. If you don't think a thing, it doesn't appear. It doesn't come up.'

JM, are you getting these?
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Sep 17, 1998 at 19:40:15 (EDT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Truly wise beyond his years
Message:
Jim: Sorry, I can't help myself, I have to comment on each and every one of these jewels.

- So what he is saying here is that if you don't 'think about' death, then you won't die? If you don't think about starvation, then there won't be any? If we don't think about suffering, then there won't be any? WOW, why didn't we NOT THINK ABOUT THAT!

- I think I've got the word that summarizes M's thesis on thinking and death: MORON!
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Sep 17, 1998 at 19:53:08 (EDT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Truly wise beyond his years
Message:
These are precious, Jim. Keep them coming. I love them. But I have to say, I only wish I had laughed as loud 20 years ago as I am now. This stuff is totally idiotic, the best argument I've heard yet, that I was truly brainwashed in a mindless cult. Even now, part of me still wants to find some sense in this stuff, but there isn't any. It's all fucking senseless.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Sep 17, 1998 at 22:32:53 (EDT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Yes I'm getting these!
Message:
That was not my topic these days .... but as you bring all this stuff out!
I was into making a good resume of BBJ's mission as a Christian evangelist in DLM !
The guy made a big mistake: he was NOT Jesus' reincarnation, nor was he the 'comforter'.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Sep 17, 1998 at 18:35:21 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Maharaji's evolutionary theory
Message:
'Today man is getting proud, but I've got something to tell him that he shouldn't be proud of. If you read the theory of Darwin carefully, it brings you to this point, that first man came in the shape of a gorilla, right? And it had many hairs all around. Then the hairs lessened, and he came into a more civilized form. But we still have hairs. That means, according to Darwin, that even we are not too civilized. Even we are not worthy to be called the highest form of life. Because, according to him, when hairs lessened man was more civilized, and we still have hairs all around our body. That means that even we are not completely civilized.'

Publish, Maharaji. Publish.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Sep 17, 1998 at 18:47:12 (EDT)
From: nigel
Email: nigel@redcrow.demon.co.uk
To: Jim
Subject: damn! I spilled my coffee
Message:
hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahaha:-):- ):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-) :-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):- ):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-): -):-):-):-)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Sep 17, 1998 at 18:50:51 (EDT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: I can't wait...
Message:
Jim: I holding my breath for M's next treatise, 'the origin of the cosmos.' he he he.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Sep 17, 1998 at 18:59:57 (EDT)
From: Mickey the Pharisee
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Maharaji's evolutionary theory
Message:
That Silly Boy said 'But we still have hairs. That means, according to Darwin, that even we are not too civilized.'

I've been losing my hair, so I must be more civilized than you hairier types!
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Sep 17, 1998 at 19:04:16 (EDT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Mickey the Pharisee
Subject: Maharaji's evolutionary theory
Message:
MP: I still drag my knuckles on the ground. Does that mean anything?
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Sep 17, 1998 at 19:08:40 (EDT)
From: Mickey the Pharisee
Email: None
To: Mike
Subject: Maharaji's evolutionary theory
Message:
Mike, as long as there is no hair on the palms of the knuckles you are dragging, you are becoming civilized!
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Sep 17, 1998 at 19:13:02 (EDT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Mickey the Pharisee
Subject: Whew!
Message:
MP: I was getting worried. What with his expert analysis of Darwin's studies.....
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Sep 17, 1998 at 19:16:01 (EDT)
From: Mickey the Pharisee
Email: None
To: Mike
Subject: Whew!
Message:
Not to mention his profound knowledge of Christological theology....
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Sep 19, 1998 at 18:02:20 (EDT)
From: Laura
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Maharaji's evolutionary theory
Message:
I consider myself fairly intelligent, not intellectual, but I claim to have a brain. How did I ever listen to this stuff? 'When hairs lessened man was more civilized.' How did ANY of us ever listen to it? When I read through the posts everyone sounds fairly educated. I think we were listening with the part of us that wanted IT to be true, we were certainly not listening with any part of us connected to the brain.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Sep 17, 1998 at 18:25:20 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Fear mongering? Nonsense
Message:
Maharaji, August 27, 1978, in the city of brotherly love:

'Guru Maharaj Ji has not only promised us, but given us more than he has promised. Always. Always.

And as that battle begins, the things get even more intense. And if that faith is not there, if that faith is not completely in Guru Maharaj Ji, you're going to fall in so many fragments that you wouldn't be able to count them yourself. You will run right out of count. Right out of it. You will go beyond zillions, billions, everything.'
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Sep 17, 1998 at 18:57:23 (EDT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: He can't even count
Message:
Jim (or anyone): Can you please define 'zillion' for me? The numbers prior to 'billions' are referred to as 'millions,' not zillions. Why didn't he just say a 'bunch' of fragments and leave it at that. Actually, I'm already fragmented if you count each molecule, of which I am composed, as a separate entity. Brings a new meaning to 'split' personality, doesn't it? he he he :-)
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Sep 17, 1998 at 18:19:09 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Grovel like dog
Message:
Here's Jim Jones -- oops, I mean Maharaji -- teaching us about love on November 8, 1978 in Kissimmee, Florida. The rant -- I mean satsang -- picks up where Maharaji is teaching us how to pray to him:

'Like I was saying yesterday, you say, 'If You could find any place, any point, anywhere, anything, if You could just find a little place for me, then just please stick me in somewhere, because I want to be on Your boat, and I want to be with You so desparately. I am already indebted to You. Don't expect anything from me, I will do whatever I can by Your Grace, but don't expect -- I'm already too much indebted to You. How can I ever repay You, what can I ever do? And I can't pay You even if I have the whole wealth of this entire world: When I can't even pay You with that, Guru Maharaj Ji, then what have I got, what is there that I can give to You?

' 'And You give me so much. You give me that affection. You give me that Love and I keep taking it. I never even think about, oh Guru Maharaj Ji, what can I give You? I mean, if there are people that can be called 'the worst' then here I am, it's me. If there is somebody who is the worst of the bunch, here it is, it's me, and the more You see that it's me then please help me more, please.'

And, even what right do we have to plead to Guru Maharaj Ji? Who are we, you know, whoa re we that we can even plead to Guru Maharaj Ji and say please, or talk to Guru Maharaj Ji, or look at Guru Maharaj Ji? But we do it.'
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Sep 17, 1998 at 19:03:05 (EDT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Grovel like dog
Message:
Oh, my guru mariachi
you are the infinite ocean of bull
kindly, by your whimsy
please show me....blah blah blah.

Jeez, Jim, this one is the worst of the bunch. Did we actually...did we believe... did we fall for.... Yup, we did!

'Pull'....bang....'Pull'....bang
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Sep 17, 1998 at 22:35:17 (EDT)
From: JW
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Grovel like dog
Message:
God, I remember that satsang so well. I could almost say it while I read it. He was SO HEAVY, lots of people freaked out big time, there in the Kissimee swamp. So weird that he was saying such outrageous cult-talk out there on the land in the middle of nowhere. All that was missing was he Kool Aid.

We don't even have the right to look at him. I really think he wasn't getting any during this period and was REALLY PISSED. In retrospect, I think I understand that now. I think it was because Marolyn was denying him sex and he hadn't found his mistress Monica Lewis yet. That must have been it.

-- Jim, where are you finding all this stuff?
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Sep 18, 1998 at 11:35:34 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: Grovel like dog
Message:
All that was missing was the Koolaid is right. This is the festival where Maharaji 'joked' about us having our own permanent land somewhere. Raja Ji and his boys would patrol it for wayward premies delaying in attending satsang.

Gail sent me a bunch of old magazines.

Gary, if you're reading this, it was really nice to see you with a little hair again. :)
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Sep 18, 1998 at 13:09:25 (EDT)
From: JW
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Grovel like dog
Message:
This is the festival where Maharaji 'joked' about us having our own permanent land somewhere.

Oh yeah, the land. I think it was more than a joke, Jim. I remember he talked about it at the ashram meeting at that program and I remember him saying the land was 'South from here' in Florida, because, being the true lover of steam heat he is, he thought Northern Florida was too cold. He also described the land as a farm and even asked if there were premies who knew how to milk cows. A little India right in the USA.

Even as programmed as I was at the time, the thought of this gave me the creeps, with visions of Jonestown dancing in my head. I don't know why the land never happened, I think because the Boeing 707 plane project bagan right after that and he spent millions on that boondoggle, milking every cent out of the premies he could. I don't think there was any spare cash available to buy land. Then, of course, he dumped the ashram residents a few years after that, so he had no captive group of slaves to put on the land anymore.

I also understand that there is some concern among premies that the 'service' they have put into Amaroo is just for a business venture, that M hardly ever does programs there and is just trying to make money off of it as a convention site, while, when he was demanding that the premies donate money to buy and rennovate the place, he promised lots of programs there. Apparently, there are premies who are a little pissed about this. These would be unsurrendered, spaced-out premies, who lack understanding, of course.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Sep 18, 1998 at 13:27:12 (EDT)
From: Gail
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: Grovel like dog
Message:
You are right. There have only been three big programs there so far. The last program cost a bundle. My entrance was (I believe) 250 English pounds (MJ also makes money by switching currencies). People who stayed in the tent city paid a fortune. Of course, every night they were served pasta. THE DESSERTS WERE GREAT. I am so glad that my days of slave labour are over (not really--now I work for a bunch of teenagers and the government takes half my salary).
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Sep 17, 1998 at 18:04:51 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Pressure? What pressure?
Message:
Thanks, Gail, for sending me this shit. Here's another quote worth my time to type and yours to read. It's what's-his-name 'inspiring' the co-ordinators on November 11, 1975 in Orlando, Florida. (Italics in the original):

'There is nothing much to say except that you have a duty to perform by Guru Maharaj Ji's agya. You have an agya to fulfill before you that there is no escape from -- unless you want to escape the truth, the realism of this life, that devotion.

If you have any questions about your duty, about your service, that pertain to me, ask me. If you don't, that autmoatically means that you are going to go out and hold the responsibility of the duty that has been assigned to you. Right? I mean, do I make myself clear? Yes?

[Question: Some of us have recieved this service by default. Somebody might have left, or no one else would take it.]

Perfect Master: 'It doesn't matter. Do you understand yourself as a premie who has realized this Knowledge or not? You are a premie. Right? When you received this Knowledge, you dedicated your life to me. Right? If you are so fake and phony as to refuse your duty, as to regret your duty, then I don't think you are even a premie.

And if you are a premie and have dedicated your life to Guru Maharaj Ji and you wnat to do service to Guru Maharaj Ji, it doesn't matter what service Guru Maharaj Ji assigns to you. Whatever is needed, then you should be ready to do it.'
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Sep 17, 1998 at 18:39:17 (EDT)
From: nigel
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Holy shit, Jimbo!
Message:
I wonder what will the revisionists make of that one.

Red Heels?
Passin thru'?
CD?
Mili?

It's all gone quiet over there....
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Sep 17, 1998 at 19:11:08 (EDT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: No pressure at all
Message:
Jim: I'll play the part of a premie, ok? 'He didn't say that this person had to do the service. That premie was not being cajoled into anything. There was no threat. You guys are just reading between the lines and making it look like Maharaji is a bad guy. You just hate Maharaji. What did he ever do to you?'

- Now all you lurker premieji's don't have to say it, I did it for you.....
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Sep 17, 1998 at 20:18:37 (EDT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Mike
Subject: No pressure at all
Message:
Actually, Mike, it was years ago that we were reading between the lines, determined to make sense of it. If we had just taken it for what it's worth, the way we are now, we would have been laughing our asses off as we headed for the exit.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Sep 18, 1998 at 10:44:30 (EDT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: facitious
Message:
Jerry: I hope you realize that I was 'playing' the part of a premie..... I didn't want them to stretch their 'minds' to defend his words....he he he. ;-)
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Sep 17, 1998 at 22:43:17 (EDT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Poor guy
Message:
Charles S. was the guy who asked the question. He was the national coordiantor in France at that time, and he wasn't feeling very good because he sort of inherited his service.
Poor guy .... he finally left a few years later, and now lives happily I guess. He was a nice guy.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Sep 17, 1998 at 14:06:45 (EDT)
From: JW
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Staying On Topic
Message:
I am starting this thread because I know I am one of the worst offenders on the forum. From time to time, I get incredibly bored talking about Maharaji and the cult, and since sometimes I feel like arguing, I post about other stuff I'm interested in, mostly politics, international affairs, legal stuff, and so on. The forum can get really filled up with those discussions.

But TD said something to me at dinner last night that reminded me of the real purpose of the forum. She said that when she was beginning to doubt Maharaji, and she found the forum, she just wanted to 'devour' anything ex-premies had to say about the cult, their personal experiences in and out of the cult, and the rest. She said it was really frustrating having to wade through threads talking about completely unrelated topics, debates and arguments.

So, I'm going to try to keep that in mind, and try to stay on topic more, and if I don't have anything to say about the cult, I may just keep my mouth shut (even if one of you political right-wingers makes the hair on the back of my neck stand up). At least I'm going to try, because as Brian tells us, many more people are lurking on this forum than post, and I think a lot of them are wavering premies, who could use some support. As you all know, I am against any kind of censorship, and I think people should be allowed to say pretty much whatever they want, but I just wanted to remind everyone of what this forum is about, and I thank TD for reminding me of that.

Best regards, everyone.

JW
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Sep 17, 1998 at 14:21:09 (EDT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: Staying On Topic
Message:
JW: Hey...hey...hey...hey, who's a right-winger???? Oh, yeah...that's me. Never mind. Good point JW, I'll try to do the same. Thanks, Bud.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Sep 17, 1998 at 16:18:01 (EDT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Mike
Subject: Hey, JW
Message:
JW: Here's my very last(?) political statement:

- The Eagle can't fly without both a right-wing and a left-wing. If it keeps both wings folded down the middle, it goes nowhere at all, not even in circles.

- I don't claim authorship, my dad said this to me a long time ago..... he he he. :-)
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Sep 18, 1998 at 13:20:06 (EDT)
From: JW
Email: None
To: Mike
Subject: Hey, Mike
Message:
The problem is, Mike, right now the Eagle just has two right wings and so the eagle tends to fly off course.

BTW -- How about that right-winger, 'Mr. Family Values,' author of the 'Hyde Amendment' denying federal payment for abotions, Henry Hyde, who is chairing the committe about to impeach Bill Clinton for lying about sexual impropriety? I understand he carried on a 6-year extramarital affair with a married woman, lied about it while he was a member of the Illinois legislature, and only ended it because his wife found out about it. He has admitted it, but said it was just 'youthful indiscretion.'

Of course, he didn't end the relationship until he was 46. And I thought 46 was getting up there, that you are an adult by that time; I guess I was wrong. I mean at 46, you are just 4 years away from an AARP membership and 6 years into yearly prostate exams. But I'm so grateful to find out I am still in my youth, and will be for at least another 2 years.

And this is the man who will judge Bill Clinton. The hypocracy festival continues.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Sep 18, 1998 at 13:44:45 (EDT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: Good Input!
Message:
Thanks JW. I agree, the hypocricy is EVERYWHERE in DC. Idiots prosecuting idiots. Will we ever see integrity as part of our vocabulary, again? It sure would be nice. Childhood 'indiscretion'..... yeah, right! My, my, my he had a REALLY LONG childhood, didn't he? Like I said to you before, I follow the conservative bent, but not necessarily all of the idiots that espouse it (there is a difference, in my mind).

- Not sure about he two right wings, though.... he he he ;-) My point with that particular quote from my dad was that IT IS GOOD that you and I don't necessarily agree on everything. 'Partisan' is a good thing because it causes the brain cells to fire. If we all agreed, I think we would make alot more mistakes than if the 'issue' is hashed out, both pro and con. Somebody has to play the devil's advocate, in my opinion. I've found that through 'disagreement,' the very best 'agreements' are made (IMHO). Yeah, it can be tough getting there, but it is usually the 'right' answer. Everybody agreeing on everything sounds more like 'apathy' to me, rather than a good knock-down discussion which leads to a hard-earned agreement that everyone can live with (usually). That's why I really enjoy discussing this stuff with you, JW. It's been alot of fun and very defining for me. Hopefully, those reading those posts realize this and enjoyed it, too. I like my brain and it's fun to use. I know that you like yours, as well.

- SO... vee are about the same age, are we? Oh, no, yearly prostate exams... thanks for reminding me of that one JW!!!!!! ha ha ha ha ha :-)
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Sep 17, 1998 at 19:56:57 (EDT)
From: Judith
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: Staying On Topic
Message:
Yes I agree there can be too much off topic. However one thing for me was the general discussions showed the level of 'health' of the ex-premies.
I mean if all they ever did was discuss Maharaji...it showed me there is life after Knowledge, and it sounds okay.
That's all I want to say.
Maybe put 'off-topic' at the start of a non-Maharaji thread.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Sep 18, 1998 at 13:23:39 (EDT)
From: JW
Email: None
To: Judith
Subject: Staying On Topic
Message:
Good point, Judith, and TD and I talked a little about this as well. The whole idea that ex-premies are healthy people with all kinds of interests that tend to get discussed. Maybe the 'off topic' warning is a good idea. And I also intend to try to do less of it, just to make the forum easier to read for lurkers, and to make it easier for Brian to archive.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Sep 17, 1998 at 11:27:33 (EDT)
From: Mickey the Pharisee
Email: mgdbach@ziplink.net
To: Everyone
Subject: Hey Kids!
Message:
Hi Everyone,
Mona and I had a lovely dinner last night with JW and TD; the conversation was intelligent and fun, the food was incredible (JW and I had the halibut with jasmine rice, it just melted in your mouth. Mona had the vegie lasagna and TD went for the steak), and the wine was great. I'm just sorry that Mona and I had to head back to Berkeley at 11:00 PM, but we had a wonderful evening. TD is a charming person, full of fun and with a great sense of humor, and we got to see 'The Sarong.' JW is as perceptive and intelligent as his posts, and has a great sense of humor, too.I really enjoy meeting the folks with whom I correspond on the site. If any of you come to the San Francisco Bay Area, be sure to look us up!
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Sep 17, 1998 at 13:53:40 (EDT)
From: JW
Email: None
To: Mickey the Pharisee
Subject: Good Wine And Good Company
Message:
Who could ask for anything more? Beats the hell out of hyper-ventilating holy name or squeezing your eyeballs any day. I also had a great time meeting TD, Mickey and Mona. The time just flew by, and we all laughed quite a lot.

Mickey looked exactly like I thought he would, and is even funnier in person than he comes accross in print. I am tempted to become a member of his congregation just so I can hear his jokes. And Mona is a sweet person, and didn't seem to mind putting up with all the 'ex-premie-talk.' Truly a good sport.

But I was SURE TD was a brunette, when she is actually a redhead, and that Aussie accent is just too cool. That kind of stuff just can't come accross on the forum. She's a very articulate, charming and thoughtful person. She gave me some very interesting EV goodies, that I want to digest and post about in the future. Good (albeit disturbing) stuff. From some of the materials, you can see so clearly the insidious attempts by Maharaji to cover over his 'I-am-god' past. I guess that's one of the great things about this website. At least there are some people trying to prevent him from getting away with that.

Just to finish off the menu for anyone who is interested, we picked a wine from one of my clients, Carmenet, their Sonoma 'Dynamite Cabernet.' If you ever see it around, I highly recommend it.

I guess because some of us have had similar experiences, being in a cult, and getting involved in a cult with openness and sincerity, only to have that stomped on, I really think there is some kind of bond among ex-premies. It's hard to describe, but I think it's definitely there.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Sep 17, 1998 at 14:06:19 (EDT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: Good Wine And Good Company
Message:
JW & Mickey: Damn, you guys have ALL the fun!
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Sep 22, 1998 at 01:37:37 (EDT)
From: Carol
Email: carolElaine@netscape.net
To: Mickey the Pharisee
Subject: Hey Kids! See me too!
Message:
Hi Mickey and all!I sort of miss being connected here, but my life is very full. I have a new hospice family (I spend just 4 hours a week, so it's not a big time commitment. I'm also training to be a volunteer support adult in grief groups for children.

I'm very excited because my experiences in the training crystalized a goal for me of becoming a play therapist. That means basically, getting a MS in Social Work and providing a safe space/place and support to people as they do their healing, with the attitude that every living being has the natural drive and inate capacity to heal from sickness, loss, and injury, given the right environment and supportive direction. It goes on without us even knowing how and can be helped along through going back to our senses and emotions through play and art and movement experiences. I may even end up incorporating my llamas and cats in the therapy (pet therapy). (My llamas are getting gelded here on Wed! I think I'll videotape it. I'm into biology, too.)

Also, the first ever Asperger Support Network meeting happened last week-end in Portland and I will be active trying to make changes in the services that the schools provide by joining with the other parents.

If you don't hear from me again for awhile, just know I care about you and I hope that if anyone comes to the Portland area, you will look me up so we can have some fun together!

Also I have a new e-mail address: carolElaine@netscape.net

I'm phasing out my hotmail acct. because I hate the way it takes me to Microsoft's site when I log out and pause a bit too long before entering a bookmark. Anyone know how to stop that?
Love. Carol
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Sep 22, 1998 at 06:00:02 (EDT)
From: Diz
Email: None
To: Carol
Subject: Hey Kids! See me too!
Message:
Dear Carol

Congratulations on your crystallised goal. That sounds like real progress on the journey into non-cult life. And a very positive thing to get into.

Thanks too for the invitation. I'd love to meet you some day, and the llamas. Won't be next week - I'm not about to travel at present - but sometime would be great.

I couldn't handle watching my llamas get gelded! Not that I have any, but if I did. You must be pretty tough! I'm very impressed. Though sad for the llamas.

Love

Diz
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Sep 23, 1998 at 02:18:31 (EDT)
From: Carol
Email: None
To: Diz
Subject: Happy Equinox!
Message:
I'm more curious than tough! I have taken a class in Human Anatomy and Physiology where I worked on cadavers part of the time. I also did a week-end worshop on making brain-tanned deer hide, the softest leather on earth...you can easily sew it by hand. We did it in groups and got to keep about one half a hide. ( I made mocassins with mine.) It involved soaking and scraping hair and flesh off the hide, a very horribly smelly (like dead animal)process. I would never do it alone, but might consider another group. We also made sinew thread and bone needles and tried to make fire the primitive way with a stick twirling, but were not as good as the teacher!

Hope to see you some day soon. Peace be with you and your family.
Carol
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Sep 23, 1998 at 08:57:39 (EDT)
From: Diz
Email: None
To: Carol
Subject: Happy Equinox - off topic
Message:
Thanks, Carol, for your kind wishes. I am having a happy equinox. Some (very non-premie) friends, some family and I had a 'sing': good wine and good company and song after song, inexpert but enthusiastic. Was great.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Sep 23, 1998 at 13:28:28 (EDT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Carol
Subject: Happy Equinox!
Message:
Carol: Now THAT's a side of you I wasn't expecting! (Tanning deer hide, etc) You just surprise the heck out of me almost everytime you post! Sorry... didn't want to butt-in, but couldn't help myself (I'm such a child)!
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Sep 24, 1998 at 01:57:43 (EDT)
From: Carol
Email: carolElaine@netscape.net
To: Mike
Subject: But in anytime!
Message:
Hi Mike,
I had a full day! I helped the vet by holding the heads of the llamas. They had a general anesthetic and a local one, so felt no pain. I saved one of the llamas balls to dissect later with my son! Does that surprise you too? Hee Hee! There are probably many more things you wouldn't guess about me.

It was a gorgeous day today and about 78 degrees. I sprayed the deck with oil stain to be ready for winter rains. I also dried pears from our orchard!

In the evening I went to the volunteer orientation meeting for the children's bereavement groups. I was only 5 minutes late and could see that someone had been there to set things out, but no one was around from the group until 8:30 after I had waited and searched and returned several times. I felt anxious that I was missing the meeting and didn't know where people were. It was like a Twilight Zone episode! The facilitator was horrified and embarassed. There was supposed to have been a greeter at the front to tell people where to go, but when no one was there I went where we had met before! Oh well...but it was very weird! I'm just very excited about doing the groups. It starts with the kids next week!

Hope to see you again.
Carol
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Sep 17, 1998 at 10:58:58 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: GMJ pillow talk
Message:
No, Monica Lewis hasn't come forward or anything. I just got a package of old Maharaji garbage and started going through it (with gloves on, of course). Here's a taste:

'Because without Guru Maharaj Ji, everything just deteriorates in our lives. And it's like, maybe to some people that's like, 'Well, nothing has deteriorated in my life yet.' And yet we have to understand that for those people it is deteriorating, and that we have to come to that one conclusion in our own hearts.'

Lovely.

Then there's:

You know, you have to imagine, you ahve to always comepensate for the fact that you are travelling at about 550 miles an hour. So you are travelling, you know. And yet, your fate is going to be very fatal, because you have not let go. You have not surrendered. I mean, it would be ideal if you would be travelling that fast and you had surrendered. It would be fantastic, it would be beautiful. But the thing is -- it's really nice to travel that fast, but if you have not surrendered yourself, then it's very, very, very fatal. Because -- well, you might end up at the wrong place at the wrong time, very, very soon.

Here's one that helps explain how CD got his spots:

So premies, if we really look for a second into our hearts, truly within our hearts, and not fake ourselves out, we will find that one of the major problems that we have is our own mind. Our mind has become such a part of us, and it is a problem; it is that thing that has been creating so much mischief within inside of us. Therefore, we always need to keep that mind quiet, to keep that mind shut, to keep that mind out of the way.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Sep 17, 1998 at 11:09:50 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: GMJ pillow talk (2)
Message:
Here's another:

'And I know a lot of people give this example that Guru Maharaj Ji is the sailor, is the person that if you hop on his boat, he can take you from one end to the other end.

***

If you just jump off, that's where you're going to stay. You're probably going to drown. And if there's a current coming, it's just going to sweep you away. And then maybe, after you die, you're going to become really buoyant, and then it'll just take you and put you ashore somewhere.'
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Sep 17, 1998 at 13:17:44 (EDT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: GMJ pillow talk (2)
Message:
Jim: So, by infering from the past, these statements mean that M wants the premies to buy him the Queen Elizabeth II, right? he he he. ;-)
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Sep 21, 1998 at 01:27:09 (EDT)
From: Diz
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: GMJ pillow talk
Message:
Thanks, Jim.

I remember some of those.

For years I wondered why I felt so much fear about having doubts, etc. While it's quite possible that part of the answer lies in my personality, and in an upbringing that made it clear that the penalties for questionning powerful father figures could be pretty severe, this stuff surely didn't help. I think those messages went very very deep into me, and helped make leaving very difficult, because it was so terrifying.

Maharaji may tell people nowadays that it's fine to walk away. But if you've been told by him and by those around you that you're ruining your life if you do, then it's hardly a free choice. Even if he doesn't say stuff like this himself now, I think the underlying belief still exists in many of the old premies, and gets conveyed to others in subtle ways. And then, like Mike (or maybe David) said below, just the idea that he is/was the Lord, is enough to make 'taking a walk' seem like hardly the thing to do. Again, he may not say in so many words that he's the Lord, however he still presents as the one person who really understands what life is about, and as the one person to whom great homage and honour is due - the effect, in my opinion, is pretty much the same. And then there's the concept that K is the only thing that's important in life, and that MJ's the only true gateway to that experience. Again, what cost walking away?

I reckon even now it would still take tremendous courage, as well as the ability to see very clearly in an environment which hardly encourages critical evaluation, to 'take a walk'.

Diz
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Sep 21, 1998 at 18:07:49 (EDT)
From: Judith
Email: None
To: Diz
Subject: GMJ pillow talk
Message:
Yes Diz it's easy to forget. For me now its been about five months since I gave it away,and I was certainly afraid of leaving. I don't think I would have left when I did or have my doubts validated unless I had found the Forum and read everything here.It was the documented experience of the past premies that made the true nature of the whole scene so much more obvious.

The whole question of how and why Maharaji is still operating today shows how deeply the belief system he promotes and lives off can penetrate people. Yesterday I found some stories I had written about finding knowledge. Was I brainwashed! - it's scary. The crux of it is that he questions the nature of 'what is real', I believe. It really should be illegal in this day and age for someone to do what he does.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Sep 21, 1998 at 20:02:22 (EDT)
From: hamzen
Email: None
To: Diz/Judith
Subject: GMJ pillow talk
Message:
It would be great if it was illegal Judith, but then it would only go underground and get even scarier. The problem of any organized belief system whether it's religious, spiritual, political, tribal or social seems really dangerous to me. As soon as that defensiveness and lack of doubt appears, you know there's gonna be trouble. Yet we all seem so terrified about our existence there seems to be a new one everyday for us too choose to support.

That whole fear of mentally disintegrating if you walk away seems to underpin so many premies when they hit the doubting phase, especially if their involvement goes back beyond the early eighties.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Sep 22, 1998 at 22:31:25 (EDT)
From: Judith
Email: None
To: hamzen
Subject: GMJ pillow talk
Message:
Yes I wonder if it's like picking up where you left off, wherever you were when you heard about 'the answer'.

Maybe it's not as neat as that. God, having learnt all I have learnt about drugs and now about false spirituality; the one thing I don't want anyone or anything to do is 'take away my pain'.

Let me grow through it. I can when there are other people to talk to and to look forward to hearing from. Thank you everyone here.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index