Ex-Premie.Org |
Forum III Archive # 26 | |
From: Oct 8, 1998 |
To: Oct 23, 1998 |
Page: 3 Of: 5 |
aaron -:- amazing! -:- Fri, Oct 16, 1998 at 01:48:02 (EDT) __Mickey the Pharisee -:- amazing! -:- Fri, Oct 16, 1998 at 02:31:22 (EDT) __jethro -:- amazing! -:- Fri, Oct 16, 1998 at 03:32:56 (EDT) __Rboyn -:- amazing! -:- Fri, Oct 16, 1998 at 07:40:25 (EDT) __Brian -:- amazing! -:- Fri, Oct 16, 1998 at 08:49:21 (EDT) __Selene -:- amazing! -:- Fri, Oct 16, 1998 at 14:22:32 (EDT) __eb -:- amazing! -:- Fri, Oct 16, 1998 at 19:28:46 (EDT) __Jim -:- amazing! -:- Fri, Oct 16, 1998 at 19:28:50 (EDT) __Veep -:- amazing! -:- Fri, Oct 16, 1998 at 21:28:48 (EDT) __Helen -:- amazing! -:- Fri, Oct 16, 1998 at 23:30:41 (EDT) ____Gerry -:- amazing! -:- Sat, Oct 17, 1998 at 00:09:03 (EDT) __CD -:- amazing! -:- Fri, Oct 16, 1998 at 23:50:34 (EDT) ____Jim -:- amazing! -:- Fri, Oct 16, 1998 at 23:55:32 (EDT) ______CD -:- amazing! -:- Sat, Oct 17, 1998 at 00:23:08 (EDT) ________Jim -:- amazing! -:- Sat, Oct 17, 1998 at 17:17:34 (EDT) __________Jerry -:- amazing! -:- Sat, Oct 17, 1998 at 19:11:02 (EDT) ____Big Brother -:- amazing! -:- Sun, Oct 18, 1998 at 14:23:58 (EDT) ____Selene -:- amazing! -:- Sun, Oct 18, 1998 at 19:09:27 (EDT) ______Mike -:- amazing! -:- Mon, Oct 19, 1998 at 15:32:57 (EDT) ________Helen -:- amazing! -:- Tues, Oct 20, 1998 at 14:47:01 (EDT) __________Selene -:- a lot of them know -:- Tues, Oct 20, 1998 at 14:55:52 (EDT) ____________Helen -:- a lot of them know -:- Tues, Oct 20, 1998 at 16:43:53 (EDT) ______________Selene -:- a lot of them know -:- Tues, Oct 20, 1998 at 17:59:51 (EDT) ________________Helen -:- a lot of them know -:- Tues, Oct 20, 1998 at 18:44:36 (EDT) __________________Mike -:- a lot of them know -:- Tues, Oct 20, 1998 at 18:58:42 (EDT) ____________________Selene -:- a lot of them know -:- Tues, Oct 20, 1998 at 20:00:04 (EDT) ______________________Helen -:- a lot of them know -:- Tues, Oct 20, 1998 at 22:23:17 (EDT) ________________________Selene -:- childhoods that suck -:- Tues, Oct 20, 1998 at 22:44:30 (EDT) __________________________Helen -:- The Castration Karma -:- Tues, Oct 20, 1998 at 23:07:27 (EDT) ____________________________Selene -:- The Castration Karma -:- Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 12:10:47 (EDT) __op -:- think for yourSELF -:- Sat, Oct 17, 1998 at 03:46:16 (EDT) ____Jim -:- You're joking, right? -:- Sat, Oct 17, 1998 at 12:33:43 (EDT) ______Rick -:- You're joking, right? -:- Sat, Oct 17, 1998 at 14:46:03 (EDT) ____Brian -:- think for yourSELF -:- Sun, Oct 18, 1998 at 09:38:48 (EDT) ______Helen -:- No center, no core -:- Sun, Oct 18, 1998 at 19:24:57 (EDT) ________Brian -:- No center, no core -:- Mon, Oct 19, 1998 at 00:19:48 (EDT) __________Helen -:- The Clothes Make the Man -:- Mon, Oct 19, 1998 at 12:25:46 (EDT) ____________Helen -:- PS to The Clothes Make the Man -:- Mon, Oct 19, 1998 at 12:40:13 (EDT) ______________hamzen -:- PS to The Clothes Make the Man -:- Mon, Oct 19, 1998 at 14:35:20 (EDT) ________________Helen -:- PS to The Clothes Make the Man -:- Mon, Oct 19, 1998 at 14:54:44 (EDT) __________________Mike -:- Integrity MAKES a... -:- Mon, Oct 19, 1998 at 16:43:48 (EDT) ____________________Helen -:- Integrity MAKES a... -:- Tues, Oct 20, 1998 at 14:24:01 (EDT) __________________hamzen -:- PS to The Clothes Make the Man -:- Tues, Oct 20, 1998 at 08:24:32 (EDT) ____________________Helen -:- PS to The Clothes Make the Man -:- Tues, Oct 20, 1998 at 14:31:15 (EDT) ____Robyn -:- think for yourSELF -:- Sun, Oct 18, 1998 at 10:59:31 (EDT) ____Mike -:- think for yourSELF -:- Mon, Oct 19, 1998 at 14:54:14 (EDT) Brian -:- Yet more Elan Vital gibberish -:- Thurs, Oct 15, 1998 at 22:57:10 (EDT) __Helen -:- Yet more Elan Vital gibberish -:- Thurs, Oct 15, 1998 at 23:49:18 (EDT) __jethro -:- Yet more Elan Vital gibberish -:- Fri, Oct 16, 1998 at 03:39:49 (EDT) ____Sir David -:- I agree, Jethro -:- Sat, Oct 17, 1998 at 12:35:13 (EDT) __Robyn -:- Yet more Elan Vital gibberish -:- Fri, Oct 16, 1998 at 07:44:00 (EDT) ____Jean-Michel -:- Yet more Elan Vital scripts -:- Fri, Oct 16, 1998 at 10:19:18 (EDT) ______Selene -:- Yet more Elan Vital scripts -:- Fri, Oct 16, 1998 at 14:30:16 (EDT) ________Sir David -:- When the reporter met Mary -:- Fri, Oct 16, 1998 at 21:29:07 (EDT) __________Sir David -:- When the reporter met Mary 2 -:- Fri, Oct 16, 1998 at 21:42:35 (EDT) ____________Gerry -:- Good one , David, LOL- nt -:- Fri, Oct 16, 1998 at 23:26:52 (EDT) ____________Gail -:- When the reporter met Mary 2 -:- Sat, Oct 17, 1998 at 01:52:38 (EDT) __VP -:- Ironic stuff, Brian -:- Fri, Oct 16, 1998 at 21:42:48 (EDT) __JW -:- Yet more Elan Vital gibberish -:- Sat, Oct 17, 1998 at 00:57:55 (EDT) ____Brian -:- Yet more Elan Vital gibberish -:- Sat, Oct 17, 1998 at 02:44:42 (EDT) ____Helen -:- Yet more Elan Vital gibberish -:- Sat, Oct 17, 1998 at 21:18:54 (EDT) ______seymour -:- Yet more Elan Vital gibberish -:- Sun, Oct 18, 1998 at 10:28:56 (EDT) eno -:- bow, wow, wow your boat.. -:- Thurs, Oct 15, 1998 at 20:12:21 (EDT) __Sir David -:- bow, wow, wow your boat.. -:- Sat, Oct 17, 1998 at 21:49:38 (EDT) ____Robyn -:- bow, wow, wow your boat.. -:- Sun, Oct 18, 1998 at 05:30:42 (EDT) ______Sir D -:- bow, wow, wow your boat.. -:- Sun, Oct 18, 1998 at 06:51:11 (EDT) ________Helen -:- bow, wow, wow your boat.. -:- Sun, Oct 18, 1998 at 08:42:55 (EDT) ________Robyn -:- bow, wow, wow your boat.. -:- Sun, Oct 18, 1998 at 09:56:00 (EDT) __________Sir D -:- bow, wow, wow your boat.. -:- Mon, Oct 19, 1998 at 05:58:24 (EDT) ____________hamzen -:- bow, wow, wow your boat.. -:- Mon, Oct 19, 1998 at 10:13:27 (EDT) ______________Robyn -:- bow, wow, wow your boat.. -:- Tues, Oct 20, 1998 at 08:29:46 (EDT) ________________hamzen -:- bow, wow, wow your boat.. -:- Tues, Oct 20, 1998 at 14:22:24 (EDT) JW -:- That Reminds Me -:- Thurs, Oct 15, 1998 at 15:42:07 (EDT) __Mc -:- LOTU -:- Thurs, Oct 15, 1998 at 16:19:57 (EDT) ____Katie -:- LOTU -:- Thurs, Oct 15, 1998 at 17:10:04 (EDT) ______VP -:- LOTU -:- Thurs, Oct 15, 1998 at 21:36:06 (EDT) ________Katie -:- LOTU and Lipstick -:- Thurs, Oct 15, 1998 at 21:57:36 (EDT) ____JW -:- LOTU -:- Thurs, Oct 15, 1998 at 17:45:05 (EDT) ______Mc -:- LOTU -:- Thurs, Oct 15, 1998 at 17:48:10 (EDT) __Mc -:- That Reminds Me -:- Thurs, Oct 15, 1998 at 16:26:53 (EDT) __Helen Clark -:- That Reminds Me -:- Thurs, Oct 15, 1998 at 18:05:17 (EDT) ____Mike -:- DC? -:- Thurs, Oct 15, 1998 at 18:41:13 (EDT) ______Helen -:- DC? -:- Thurs, Oct 15, 1998 at 20:51:55 (EDT) ________Katie -:- DC - off topic -:- Thurs, Oct 15, 1998 at 22:03:32 (EDT) __________Helen -:- DC - off topic -:- Thurs, Oct 15, 1998 at 23:24:37 (EDT) ____________Katie -:- DC - off topic -:- Fri, Oct 16, 1998 at 09:30:06 (EDT) ______________Helen -:- DC - off topic -:- Fri, Oct 16, 1998 at 22:14:57 (EDT) ______________Helen -:- DC - off topic -:- Fri, Oct 16, 1998 at 22:22:27 (EDT) ____________VP -:- DC to Helen - off topic -:- Fri, Oct 16, 1998 at 21:55:49 (EDT) ______________Helen -:- DC to Helen - off topic -:- Fri, Oct 16, 1998 at 22:04:50 (EDT) ________________VP -:- DC to Helen - off topic -:- Fri, Oct 16, 1998 at 22:43:03 (EDT) ________Mike -:- DC? -:- Fri, Oct 16, 1998 at 10:42:25 (EDT) __________Mike -:- DC? Oops, PT 1 -:- Fri, Oct 16, 1998 at 10:43:33 (EDT) ____________Selene -:- arizona -:- Fri, Oct 16, 1998 at 14:04:54 (EDT) ______________Mike -:- arizona -:- Fri, Oct 16, 1998 at 15:15:24 (EDT) ________________Selene -:- Tucson! -:- Fri, Oct 16, 1998 at 16:52:45 (EDT) __________________Mike -:- Tucson! (off-topic) -:- Fri, Oct 16, 1998 at 17:10:33 (EDT) ____________________Selene -:- Tucson! (off-topic) -:- Fri, Oct 16, 1998 at 17:17:15 (EDT) ______________________Mike -:- Tucson! (off-topic) -:- Fri, Oct 16, 1998 at 17:45:08 (EDT) ________________________Selene -:- he's not one -:- Fri, Oct 16, 1998 at 18:10:18 (EDT) __________________________Selene -:- ps to he's not one -:- Fri, Oct 16, 1998 at 18:15:03 (EDT) __________________________Helen -:- he's not one -:- Fri, Oct 16, 1998 at 22:27:20 (EDT) ____________________Gail -:- Tucson Program -:- Sat, Oct 17, 1998 at 02:05:42 (EDT) ______________________Selene -:- Tucson Program -:- Sat, Oct 17, 1998 at 15:54:33 (EDT) ________________________Selene -:- Tucson Program - oops -:- Sat, Oct 17, 1998 at 16:36:13 (EDT) ________________________Jim -:- It wasn't all bad -:- Sat, Oct 17, 1998 at 22:55:58 (EDT) __________________________Selene -:- where did he stay? -:- Sat, Oct 17, 1998 at 23:31:47 (EDT) ____________________________Jim -:- where did he stay? -:- Sun, Oct 18, 1998 at 01:40:34 (EDT) __________Helen -:- DC? -:- Fri, Oct 16, 1998 at 22:19:26 (EDT) ____________Mike -:- AZ Rules! -:- Mon, Oct 19, 1998 at 12:32:43 (EDT) ______________Helen -:- AZ Rules! -:- Mon, Oct 19, 1998 at 13:39:34 (EDT) ________________Mike -:- AZ Rules! (off-topic) -:- Mon, Oct 19, 1998 at 15:04:52 (EDT) __________________Selene -:- AZ Rules! (off-topic) -:- Tues, Oct 20, 1998 at 10:29:47 (EDT) __________________Helen -:- AZ Rules! (off-topic) -:- Tues, Oct 20, 1998 at 14:40:42 (EDT) ____________________Selene -:- AZ Rules! (off-topic) -:- Tues, Oct 20, 1998 at 15:08:48 (EDT) ______________________Mike -:- AZ Rules! (off-topic) -:- Tues, Oct 20, 1998 at 17:05:13 (EDT) ____JW -:- That Reminds Me -:- Thurs, Oct 15, 1998 at 18:48:57 (EDT) ______Helen -:- That Reminds Me -:- Thurs, Oct 15, 1998 at 20:55:58 (EDT) __Jim -:- Yup -:- Thurs, Oct 15, 1998 at 20:36:29 (EDT) JW -:- To Jim, Etc., Kurt Andersen -:- Thurs, Oct 15, 1998 at 12:38:11 (EDT) __JW -:- To Jim, Etc., Kurt Andersen -:- Thurs, Oct 15, 1998 at 12:39:55 (EDT) __Paul -:- To Jim, Etc., Kurt Andersen -:- Thurs, Oct 15, 1998 at 15:16:41 (EDT) ____JW -:- To Jim, Etc., Kurt Andersen -:- Thurs, Oct 15, 1998 at 15:34:44 (EDT) ______Paul -:- To Jim, Etc., Kurt Andersen -:- Fri, Oct 16, 1998 at 11:46:59 (EDT) ____Jim -:- To Jim, Etc., Kurt Andersen -:- Fri, Oct 16, 1998 at 19:38:29 (EDT) ______Gail -:- Is M. Bolton really a PWK? nt -:- Sat, Oct 17, 1998 at 01:58:19 (EDT) ________Jim -:- Is M. Bolton really a PWK? nt -:- Sun, Oct 18, 1998 at 16:13:47 (EDT) __________bb -:- Is M. Bolton really a PWK? nt -:- Mon, Oct 19, 1998 at 04:37:05 (EDT) ____________Jerry -:- Is M. Bolton really a PWK? nt -:- Mon, Oct 19, 1998 at 10:41:20 (EDT) ______Paul -:- To Jim, Etc., Kurt Andersen -:- Mon, Oct 19, 1998 at 09:54:37 (EDT) Jim -:- The Perfect Religion -:- Thurs, Oct 15, 1998 at 00:10:12 (EDT) __Jim -:- an example on the left -:- Thurs, Oct 15, 1998 at 00:19:28 (EDT) ____Runamok -:- Bang Laing -:- Thurs, Oct 15, 1998 at 10:02:36 (EDT) ____VP -:- an example on the left -:- Thurs, Oct 15, 1998 at 14:20:08 (EDT) ______Helen -:- an example on the left -:- Thurs, Oct 15, 1998 at 17:39:03 (EDT) ________VP -:- imaginary friends-off topic -:- Thurs, Oct 15, 1998 at 21:26:27 (EDT) __________Helen -:- imaginary friends-off topic -:- Thurs, Oct 15, 1998 at 22:02:11 (EDT) ____________VP -:- small scientist-off topic -:- Fri, Oct 16, 1998 at 21:12:52 (EDT) ______________Helen -:- small scientist-off topic -:- Fri, Oct 16, 1998 at 21:56:44 (EDT) __Helen -:- The Perfect Religion -:- Thurs, Oct 15, 1998 at 17:54:06 (EDT) __Diz -:- Devotion not sexy! -:- Thurs, Oct 15, 1998 at 23:13:11 (EDT) ____Jim -:- Devotion not sexy! -:- Fri, Oct 16, 1998 at 11:34:39 (EDT) __Diz -:- JIM, READ THIS FIRST -:- Thurs, Oct 15, 1998 at 23:34:20 (EDT) JW -:- Cleese and Dawkins 'Event' -:- Wed, Oct 14, 1998 at 23:59:30 (EDT) __Jim -:- Cleese and Dawkins 'Event' -:- Thurs, Oct 15, 1998 at 00:12:37 (EDT) ____JW -:- Cleese and Dawkins 'Event' -:- Thurs, Oct 15, 1998 at 13:09:29 (EDT) ______Sir D -:- Cleese and Dawkins 'Event' -:- Thurs, Oct 15, 1998 at 14:02:18 (EDT) Gail -:- Censorship -:- Wed, Oct 14, 1998 at 23:13:57 (EDT) __Sir D -:- Censorship -:- Wed, Oct 14, 1998 at 23:54:00 (EDT) ____Mike -:- Censorship -:- Thurs, Oct 15, 1998 at 10:43:45 (EDT) ____CD -:- Censorship -:- Fri, Oct 16, 1998 at 18:31:26 (EDT) ______Mike -:- What if... -:- Fri, Oct 16, 1998 at 18:41:00 (EDT) ________Jim -:- Don't bother -:- Fri, Oct 16, 1998 at 19:43:31 (EDT) __________Mike -:- Don't bother -:- Fri, Oct 16, 1998 at 19:58:37 (EDT) ______Gail -:- What are you talking about CD -:- Sat, Oct 17, 1998 at 01:45:00 (EDT) ________Gail -:- PS to CD -:- Sat, Oct 17, 1998 at 02:09:32 (EDT) __VP -:- Anybody out there.... -:- Thurs, Oct 15, 1998 at 14:27:26 (EDT) __JW -:- Censorship -:- Thurs, Oct 15, 1998 at 15:53:38 (EDT) ____Mc -:- Censorship -:- Thurs, Oct 15, 1998 at 16:12:04 (EDT) ____Gail -:- Censorship -:- Thurs, Oct 15, 1998 at 22:36:33 (EDT) Jean-Michel -:- Nice new stuff/ignoramus -:- Wed, Oct 14, 1998 at 11:48:35 (EDT) __Gail -:- Nice investigative work, JM! -:- Wed, Oct 14, 1998 at 16:03:54 (EDT) ____Mike -:- They know... -:- Wed, Oct 14, 1998 at 17:04:57 (EDT) __RT -:- Nice new stuff! -:- Wed, Oct 14, 1998 at 22:59:40 (EDT) |
Date: Fri, Oct 16, 1998 at 01:48:02 (EDT)
From: aaron Email: None To: Everyone Subject: amazing! Message: I don't know what to say. My mind is boggled. Both of my parents are premies, and so are almost every single one of their friends. The only opinions that I every even knew existed were that of either total devotion or that someone never heard of maharaji. Until about five minutes ago, I thought Maharaji had only a positive following. The reason that I'm so overwhelmed, is that recently, a flicker of interest has lit in my mind. My dad and mom have talked about Maharaji with me for as long as I can remember. I'm twenty now, I this is the first year that I've ever even give my dad an ounce of interest when he talked to me about knowledge. I've been listening to a few tapes, and some of it is kind of interesting, but the unexpected existence of this site and more importantly, the shocking discovery of the numerously held strong negative opinion has thrown a very large wrench into the gears that are my mind. This is extremely confusing, but at the same time immensely fascinating. Now that I think about it, there is no one that I know that I could talk with on this subject, because everyone I know, like I said before, either doesn't know who he is, or is at least in some way devoted to him. I didn't know about his previous attitude where he put himself at the same level as god. Damn, there are I so many things about him and also about the diverse ideas that people have, that I never imagined. I'm serious when I say that everyone I know that knows him practically preaches about how great he is. That is all I've ever heard. If anyone actually reads down to this bottom line, and wants to reply to me, I'd appreciate it. I'm very interested in what people have to say. And, if anyone knows about how many ex-premies that there are, I'm also very curious on that too. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Oct 16, 1998 at 02:31:22 (EDT)
From: Mickey the Pharisee Email: None To: aaron Subject: amazing! Message: Welcome to the site, aaron! I would be interested to hear what your parents think about the information you gather here. You should ask your parents about Maharaj-ji's Lord of the Universe period and about the Holy Family. They may be honest with you about it, or they may not. It can be difficult for parents to discuss such topics. I suggest that you explore the archives of this site and visit J-M's 'Elan Vital's Indian Background' site before you make any decisions regarding a Knowledge session. I hope that you learn a lot here, and feel free to ask questions! Regards, Michael Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Oct 16, 1998 at 03:32:56 (EDT)
From: jethro Email: None To: aaron Subject: amazing! Message: Aaron, There are probably more ex-premies than premies.,,,,actually the whole thing is a bit deceptive. For example in India, where it has been claimed that there are millions of premies, it is not unusual for a person to be initiated by several gurus...it is partly cultural. So many of the Indian premies are not exclusively premies. Here in the UK there are thousands that have 'received' knowledge(think about the wording, it implies something mystical or similar) and have dropped it. regards jethro Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Oct 16, 1998 at 07:40:25 (EDT)
From: Rboyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: aaron Subject: amazing! Message: Dear Aaron, How fortunate that you found this site before you attended a knowledge session. Now you can make an informed desicion. There was a premie site on the web also and then Maharaji said to shut it down. Now there is a new one that apparently has M's blessing. You can go there and the thing that struck me like a lead brick was that they make no bones about letting you know up front that when you sumbit a piece of text that you give 'them' all rights to that writing and it can be edited by them. Free speech? NOT! My daughter's paternal cousin is the daughter of a premie who received K before 1973 when I did. She still is but doens't talk to anyone about it not even her children. There is a shroud of secracy(sp)around the whole thing in general that makes my skin crawl. Sounds very cultish. Personally I didn't have a bad experience with M and still enjoy K as many here do but when I found this site I too was surprized at what I learned and even though I wasn't hurt, enough people were to make me sit up and take notice. Love, Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Oct 16, 1998 at 08:49:21 (EDT)
From: Brian Email: brian@ex-premie.org To: aaron Subject: amazing! Message: My dad and mom have talked about Maharaji with me for as long as I can remember. I'm twenty now, I this is the first year that I've ever even give my dad an ounce of interest when he talked to me about knowledge. I've been listening to a few tapes, and some of it is kind of interesting, but the unexpected existence of this site and more importantly, the shocking discovery of the numerously held strong negative opinion has thrown a very large wrench into the gears that are my mind. This is extremely confusing, but at the same time immensely fascinating. Keep in mind that your parents must have derived some benefit from their involvement. Like any other loving parents, they want to see that you have the opportunity to share in that directly. Most of us who went through it have as a main objection Maharaji's methods of demanding devotion (reminding premies that they should feel gratitude nowadays) to him for his having 'given' them this 'gift'. When most of us got involved, the requirements were that a person must sincerely want the experience. Now there is a long gauntlet of video-viewing that must be run. There's a built-in conditioning ('preparing') that takes place in the process before people are shown the techniques. Meditation and the techniques used are considered to be ineffective without the context of 'Maharaji', which is pure bullshit. Those grateful for their gift are encouraged to contribute to Maharaji's 'mission' to take this to the world, and much of the money goes to him instead. Not all of it, but enough that he lives like a king. Millions have been misappropriated by his personal greed and selfishness. We all turned a blind eye to that as we thought we were involved in something of Universe-altering proportions. There's the baby (Knowledge) and the bathwater (Maharaji) here. You have to make an informed evaluation about where the edges are and what part is something that can add value to your life. Contrast how you grew up with how your friends were raised. Was there less bickering, drinking, anguish, etc, in your household than in your friends' households? Did your parents having Knowledge contribute to them having happier lives than your friends parents? Weigh those things too, instead of just jumping in or walking away from what's being offered. When your parents got involved, there was much more openness. That openness disappeared because Maharaji discouraged it. How 'obedient' are they to his whims? Can they talk to you about those sorts of things? Feel free to work out your feelings here in the forum, by talking to your parents, by attending video events, and by keeping your eyes open so that you can gain enough information to make choices that will bring you the most long-term benefit. You don't have to go along with the Maharaji-worship in order to receive Knowledge. And you don't have to shut your mind down in order to open your heart in life. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Oct 16, 1998 at 14:22:32 (EDT)
From: Selene Email: None To: aaron Subject: amazing! Message: Hi and welcome, You may not have heard much about M because, really, there aren't that many people involved, even compared to other cults. And, they try to keep a very low profile, it seems to me it started being that way in tht late seventies, early eighties, after Jonestown and a lot of other bad publicity about cults. Smart move on Maharaji's pr people's part. I think it was calculated. Then, they tried to look more and more businesslike, less hippie-ish and less of the Hindu east Indian stuff. but, once you go through the well planned steps of initiation, though they try to make it look informal, you start to see it for what it is. By that time you either have bought in or you leave. You are doing the very best thing you can for your self, you are thinking! And becoming informed. there's lot s of info on this site, but I would also read about other cults, Scientology, Landmark Forum, etc. It kind of gives one the big picture, and for me at least, I saw a pattern in the recruiting, indoctrination, and initiation techniques. Good luck. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Oct 16, 1998 at 19:28:46 (EDT)
From: eb Email: None To: aaron Subject: amazing! Message: Hi aaron, I have some questions for you: 1) Were your parents premies before you were born? 2) What is it like for you growing up with premie parents? I had 3 kids while I was a premie, and recently I showed them the video entitled 'Lord of the Universe' which depicts how things were early on. They are now 23, 22, and 18 and were flabbergasted, to say the least. The eldest one became rather angry when he found out he'd kissed Maharaji's feet several times. I'm curious what they'd be like if I'd continued on the Maharaji path. With love, eb Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Oct 16, 1998 at 19:28:50 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: aaron Subject: amazing! Message: Aaron, If you'd like to know the truth about Maharaji ..... if you'd like to know the truth about Maharaji. Hey, man, join the club! I mean, everyone here knows enough to say the guy's fake. That's easy. The hard part is figuring out if and when he himself came to terms with that fact. Of course Maharaji, like most cult leaders, is afraid to face anyone but fawning, carefully controlled sycophants, so asking him questions is out of the question. That leaves contacting a Mr. Booth Dyess at the number posted in the thread below. Hey, do it, it should be fun. Here's what you do. You contact Mr. Dyess, get him to call you back. When he does tell him the truth. Tell him that your parents are both premies and you hadn't realized that people familiar with Maharaji had anything but love and respect for him. Then you stumbled upon the ex-premie page. Like you say, wow! People are accusing Maharaji of gross deceit and venality (greed), charading as a little Lord of The Universe piggy-backed on some colourful but worthless Hindu philosophy. Fighting with his brother for the right to masquerade as The Master with neither ackowledging the existence of the other. (By the way, if you haven't seen it, here's the address for his older brother's page. This guy, Satpal, who we knew as Bal Bhagwan Ji, ... well this whole story is so ridiculous and maybe you already know it. Anyway ask Booth about him: http://www.angelfire.com/sc/manavdharma/ Ask Booth about the rest of Maharaji's 'Holy Family'.) You can also ask Booth about Maharaji's marriage and whether or not he fucks around no his wife a lot. Ask him about that in the context of locking up as many 'devotees'' as he could in celibate ashrams in the name of purity and renunciation in the seventies. Imagine, Aaron. Just imagine that. Ask Booth why Maharaji won't entertain any questions from people like us. That should be interesting too. Yeah, I'd say that would be a good start. You might also want to check out JM's background page as well. It says it all. Then you might want to find a copy of The Guru Papers an incredible book by Kramer and Alstead. Hate to say it, Aaron, but, if you read it, you'll never look at your parents the same. Good luck. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Oct 16, 1998 at 21:28:48 (EDT)
From: Veep Email: None To: aaron Subject: amazing! Message: Hi, aaron. You can find the Knowledge techniques on this site in a couple of places. They are basic yoga meditation techniques that are available from other sources besides Maharaji. It doesn't matter if you read them here or if Maharaji gives them to you, except for one crucial factor--if you read them, you will have knowledge without conditioning. You won't have been conditioned to devote to a Master. That is what so many premies love about their group--the devotional aspect. Traveling around to different 'festivals' or 'programs' to see Maharaji is what it is all about for them. That may or may not be for you. Best of luck to you in your investigation, Veep Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Oct 16, 1998 at 23:30:41 (EDT)
From: Helen Email: None To: aaron Subject: amazing! Message: Aaron, trust your instincts. And keep your feet on the ground. YOu are in a very difficult position because your parents are the most fundamental people in your life. But remember you are an adult and can make your own decisions, and can still love and honor your parents no matter what. Try not to let yourself get torn into pieces over this. It can all get so heavy...and it's hard to make major decisions when things are so heavy. Keep your perspective, balance, and sense of proportion. Go out and have fun, crunch autumn leaves under your feet, hang out with all kinds of people, read psychology, learn about religion. Do not fall into the trap of pooh-poohing the wisdom of many thinkers, writers, and philosophers out there. I now sort of force myself to listen to alot of differnt opinions on different subjects and then I ask myself 'What do I think?' Make yourself think it all through. Keep a journal. You may flip and flop back and forth, that's okay. If it all gets too intense, go work out at a gym, or take a long walk. Take your vitamins, talk to a therapist if you need to. But please, don't do anything that doesn't feel right. Be true to you.This website will help you sort it all out Helen Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Oct 17, 1998 at 00:09:03 (EDT)
From: Gerry Email: None To: aaron Subject: amazing! Message: Hey big guy, Why of course you should join this little club! You'll be a member of an exclusive society really in the ''Know.''' Heck, there's travel, opportunities to give, and some really neat ''insider'' experiences just for you! You might even be invited on a cruise to Premie Island! Think of it! (Well maybe not with your nasty mind, but with your heart) You too can be a REALIZED SOUL! Get to discover your TRUE SELF! Honest Injun! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Oct 16, 1998 at 23:50:34 (EDT)
From: CD Email: None To: aaron Subject: amazing! Message: >This is extremely confusing, but at the same time immensely fascinating. That is a great description of the topic. >the shocking discovery of the numerously held strong negative opinion You should not be shocked to find several blowhards on the Internet. The Internet is famous for flame wars. Now the fact that many of the people on this forum have not been to one of Maharajis talks in many many years is somewhat unique and curious. I for one appreciate the focus on the importance of the inner experience that Maharaji presents in his talks. There is a purpose for good teachers in this world. The chicken and the egg problem still doesn't have a solution. The debate on the purpose of life is even more extensive, important and fascinating. It does appear that we exist in the middle of time and space with no explanation. Though this does not have relevance to getting up to do our daily chores, we should pause and consider the ramifications of this obvious reality. And the deep feelings that we experience should be given some of our attention and gratitude. Good luck on your search for what is worthwhile in your life! You ultimately must find your own answers amid the chaos and beauty of existence. The important thing is to be thirsty for the truth. CD Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Oct 16, 1998 at 23:55:32 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: CD Subject: amazing! Message: Chris, The chicken and the egg problem has been solved! Read a little biology, bud. You have no idea. As for hearing Maharaji's recent talks, why just the other week I watched a video from Miami last June. The most pathetic drivel I've ever heard. Sorry, fella, gotta call it like you see it, right? I'm not saying Mr. Rawat isn't a wonderful human being. It's just that some of are cut out to be living incarnations of the Lord and some of us aren't. You know? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Oct 17, 1998 at 00:23:08 (EDT)
From: CD Email: None To: Jim Subject: amazing! Message: >The chicken and the egg problem has been solved! Read a little biology, bud. You have no idea. Yes Jim. There is a report with the answer for most every thing by now. Just not easy to find. Thanks for the tip. >why just the other week I watched a video from Miami last June. The most pathetic drivel I've ever heard. Sorry, fella, gotta call it like you see it, right? My, this is a big suprise. You really have changed! I can sense the deep caring in this dagger you have thrust. >I'm not saying Mr. Rawat isn't a wonderful human being. An excellent use of your legal training at USC. VISA couldn't have said it better. 'There have been times in the history of science when the whole of orthodox science has been rightly thrown over because of a single awkward fact. It would be arrogant to assert that such overthrows will never happen again.' Is Dawkins bibliography really complete? Could Jim Heller be the Crown of Creation? Now where did I put that report ... CD Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Oct 17, 1998 at 17:17:34 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: CD Subject: amazing! Message: Chris, You're a touch inscrutable at the best of times but when you're trying to be ironic, watch out! What the hell are you saying? Do you even know yourself? Like you say the chicken and the egg is some big mystery in evolutionary theroy. Not! You say 'thanks' but are you actually interested in learning somethying here? Tell me, Chris, and I'll try to find you what I've found on the subject and where I found it. Bu, religious guy that you are, you kind of like mystery more than knowledge, right? Like which is better: a guru who comes through the timeless mist without any mundane ties to this earthly existence or one who's every step to gurudom is documented and available for all to see? Which would you prefer, hm? I'd want the latter myself. That way I can think for myself about all of it and not just take soem saffron-robed, bald-headed, Hindu package deal, complete with glitz, spritz, no tits but gulab jammins. No, I'd rather think for myself, thanks very much. How about you, oh Certified Microsoft Technologist or whatever you call yourself? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Oct 17, 1998 at 19:11:02 (EDT)
From: Jerry Email: None To: Jim Subject: amazing! Message: CD's an MCSE, Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer. It's quite a big deal for network administrators and it does require a great deal of diligent study to achieve. I still don't know why CD raised the issue of the chicken and the egg, though. Maybe you have to be an MCSE, yourself, to understand the inner workings of another MCSE's mind. Or maybe you just have to be another premie. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Oct 18, 1998 at 14:23:58 (EDT)
From: Big Brother Email: None To: CD Subject: amazing! Message: CD, That was the incorrect response. Did you forget your lines? This is what you are supposed to say to aaron: 'I'm sorry, I'm not really informed about what you're asking. If you'd like, I could ask the public relations officer for Elan Vital to call you. That's the organization that produces the videos. When's the best time for someone to reach you?' Big Brother Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Oct 18, 1998 at 19:09:27 (EDT)
From: Selene Email: None To: all Subject: amazing! Message: Been to the 'talks' (heh ) as little as a year ago. Any other ex's? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Oct 19, 1998 at 15:32:57 (EDT)
From: Mike Email: None To: Selene Subject: amazing! Message: Selene: Yup... I have a premie friend that, how should I say it, gives me lots of info on the subject. It's current, it's authoritative (from his point of view) and it's BULL (from my point of view)! These guys coming on this forum and saying that we haven't heard or seen anything recent is just about as pathetic as it gets. Like I said in an earlier post, I'll bet we've seen some videos before the general premie populace has. It's obvious, once again, that these guys are just shit-stirrers and that they don't have the slightest clue as to who they are dealing with. - To ALL of you premies: Yes, we have seen the latest stuff. We are seeing history repeat itself (toe-kissing and all). The problem is that YOU HAVEN'T SEEN the old stuff and the in-between stuff. SO you can't see the link that we see. Why don't you ask someone here for a copy of 'Who is Guru Maharaji?', 'The Lord of The Universe', and some of the old 'Divine Times' magazines? THEN, come back and talk to us about how we are all wrong about his past. For the revisionists among you.... shame on you for telling LIES to newbies. Lies that you KNOW are lies, for example: M never promoted the idea that he was god. What a hoot... You are either BLIND or LYING, there are no other choices! Now here's a clue for you: If M promoted it then (or said it) and now he doesn't, that makes it a LIE! Get it? No... I didn't think so. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Oct 20, 1998 at 14:47:01 (EDT)
From: Helen Email: None To: Selene Subject: amazing! Message: Go girl! That's so true! I don't understand why his former deeds are not of interest to them. It's his reputation, for God's sake. You'd think they'd want to check out what he did in his past and decide for themselves if he's trustworthy. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Oct 20, 1998 at 14:55:52 (EDT)
From: Selene Email: None To: Helen Subject: a lot of them know Message: Most of them DO know about the past Helen (hey you were there recently too weren't you?) Only the very new miss it. After a while, they see old pictures, or hear the stories from other premies, etc. They just don't CARE because they don't THINK about it. The rationalization is it didn't happen to them so it's not real. Even some die hards who stick around from those days have the same attitude. that was then this is now. So what's our problem? The revisionist stuff is absolutely annoying to me, but it isn't my big issue. Mine is just that it's all a big lie. A promise with no fulfillment. And they/he keep recruiting. All so M can have his lifestyle. I don't see anything else coming out of it. The premies I know range from harmlessly bizarre to mean. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Oct 20, 1998 at 16:43:53 (EDT)
From: Helen Email: None To: Selene Subject: a lot of them know Message: I haven't been part of the whatever's it's called now for quite awhile. Haven't been to a 'video event', although a friend of mine explained to me how it has changed direction. I laughed so hard when she told me that and I said, 'Well, how come he used to call himself the Lord and now calls himself a meditation teacher' and we had a big fight that lasted two days. I was staying with her at the time and so it was kind of a downer. I got out of it quite a few years ago (14?) because it was making me insane, but you're right, I still hadn't put it all together until I found this website. I was still operating under the fantasy that he was some kind of legitimate spiritual teacher. I had my own questions and concerns and that is why I left, but I didn't have all of the information until the clarification here on this site. When did you leave and how long were you involved? Do you know any of his current followers (do they call them devotees anymore) who seem sane, kind, or reasonable? Helen Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Oct 20, 1998 at 17:59:51 (EDT)
From: Selene Email: None To: Helen Subject: a lot of them know Message: Got truly out for good (after waivering forever), in January 1998 after his birthday fiasco in long beach. I swear, I only know 2 or maybe 3 premies that are sane, kind and reasonable. And I haven't pushed it by giving them my latest outlook. 2 or 3 after 25 years ain't so hot. I have had VERY bad recent (pre leaving) experiences with 2 premies, last year. I think 2 was enough for me, someone I used to work with used to say 'fool me once, shame on you. fool me twice shame on me' ie - get out after the second attack. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Oct 20, 1998 at 18:44:36 (EDT)
From: Helen Email: None To: Selene Subject: a lot of them know Message: Right, girl! We should write a book 'Ten Stupid Things Premies Do to Mess Up Their Lives' I see a lot of parallels with abusive & one-sided relationships that women can get themselves into and the one-sided devotion to our 'Guru formerly known as Lord' (from now on, I shall refer to him as simply this symbol--$) It's an important lesson to learn to stay away from the snake cause the snake's nature is to bite. Me, I'm so thick-headed the snake has to practically have me laid up in the hospital with severe toxic poisoning 8 times before I finally get it! I'm stilll way too trusting. But girl, I'm learning how to protect myself from all manner of bullshit. Anyway, the important thing is that you're out now. I hope you're doing well. Sounds like you are. Helen Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Oct 20, 1998 at 18:58:42 (EDT)
From: Mike Email: None To: Helen Subject: a lot of them know Message: Helen: There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with you sense of humor. It is alive and very well! It might be a little esoteric, but your symbol for 'Guru' is a real winner. So what can we say about $, anyway? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Oct 20, 1998 at 20:00:04 (EDT)
From: Selene Email: None To: Mike and Helen Subject: a lot of them know Message: I agree that formerly known as stuff was wonderful. Thanks for the laugh Helen. And than you, too, for your strong words of support. It sounds like you went through a lot of shit. Glad you are here. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Oct 20, 1998 at 22:23:17 (EDT)
From: Helen Email: None To: Selene & Mike Subject: a lot of them know Message: Thank you both for your kind words. Selene, I guess I have gone through a lot of shit. People can't believe how much shit I've gone through when I tell them because I seem so 'normal' & so often I'm in the role model position now. I am the Brownie leader, PTA mom, pretty successful in my career, married 13 yrs, etc, but I never forget the hard times in my past. When I look at someone like Monica Lewinsky, who seems like such a dope, I think 'Hey, wait a minute, she's just a screwed up kid who probably didn't get the proper kind of love & guidance from her parents'. I mean she could be me twenty years ago, I hate to admit that but it's true. I don't think Jesus Christ himself could have stopped me from going for knowlege back then, I was going to go for it, and I did, despite the fact that many smart people in my life were advising me against it. I think if I had had the kind of upbringing where I felt truly valued, and loved and cherished I would have been innoculated from that kind of blind allegiance. But maybe not. There certainly seem to be a lot of premies who had excellent family situations. GM was certainly seductive to them too. The alcoholic family situation I grew up in, definitely sort of repeated itself w/ GM ($) and inother situations in my life. I've had to gain understanding about those dynamics, and I'm still doing so. In raising my own child, I am able to work some of this through--by nurturing her, and giving her the kind of love & structure I didn't have, it strengthens me. I may not be able to fix my childhood but through giving to others (the families and children I work with) and through raising my child, I get back a whole lot. ANyway, I'm glad I'm still here. Thanks for your kind words, Helen Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Oct 20, 1998 at 22:44:30 (EDT)
From: Selene Email: None To: Helen Subject: childhoods that suck Message: Yup, I hear you. There's a few of us here. I think those like us were dogmeat for M and his bizarre Hindu trip back then. I was grasping at anything that even vaguely resembled caring and love, and the premies were busily recruiting, Perfect match. I think their intentions were good at the time. They really thought M was whatever he said he was. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Oct 20, 1998 at 23:07:27 (EDT)
From: Helen Email: None To: Selene Subject: The Castration Karma Message: Yes, I agree. And in some ways it was a family substitute of sorts, I sure met some great premies. The sincerity of the premies was amazing. Hearing that people like JW were celibate for 9 years, so trusting was he in what GM asked of him, makes me think GM ($) should be castrated. Helen Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 12:10:47 (EDT)
From: Selene Email: None To: Helen Subject: The Castration Karma Message: And as mentioned above, I have the perfect support device for him to wear as he goes through his recovery :):) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Oct 17, 1998 at 03:46:16 (EDT)
From: op Email: None To: aaron Subject: think for yourSELF Message: Hi Aaron: Your post has generated quite a lot of hubbub here. Everyone seems to be aching to find a way into your thought patterns so that you can begin thinking like they do. Actually, I was quite surprised at Brian's answer to you. To me, it makes the most sense (Brian and I have had a few flame-ups in the past - congratulations on your open-mindedness on this one, Brian). Please be aware that all the postings here are very subjective, and many of those things held as common truth are really hearsay or pseudo-analysis (e.g., that M's marriage is sour, that he drinks to avoid his problems, that he has self-doubts). There are some things that are factual (e.g., Jim's friend really did commit suicide, the person who threw a pie at M was brutally attacked). I've been a premie for 27 years and have been around through all the changes - from living in the ashram (and the residence) to raising a family and beyond. My own experience with M and Knowledge has always been positive. I realize that a lot of people on this site do not feel that way. My suggestion? Talk to your parents. Don't allow yourself to be swayed by opinion, but follow your own instincts. See what M has to say and whether you feel that he has something to communicate to you. If you read this, and you would like some clarification on much of the gossip that shows up on the site, let me know, and I can email you. I don't often post here any more because I've discovered that as a practicing premie I'm more likely to get chewed up than listened to here. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Oct 17, 1998 at 12:33:43 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: op Subject: You're joking, right? Message: Everyone seems to be aching to find a way into your thought patterns so that you can begin thinking like they do. ***** My suggestion? Talk to your parents. Don't allow yourself to be swayed by opinion, but follow your own instincts. See what M has to say and whether you feel that he has something to communicate to you. Op, You are so funny. Really, you premies just crack me up. Here you're trying to warn Aaron about our attempts at controlling his mind as if exposing the truth about Maharaji, warts and all, was in itself some form of cult programming. Now that's funny enough. Really, you should check out the CNN link to the interview with the remaining Heaven's Gater. He sounds just like you! All he can talk about is the scandalous misrepresntations his cult has suffered without, of course, actually spelling them out let alone specifically answering them. You say some of the complaints against Maharaji are just hearsay. Tell me, op, do you or do you not know that Maharaji has been fucking Monika Lewis for years? Come on, op, that's a very simple question. Cut this 'hearsay' crap. You've been around. Is it true or not? And, as you, too, are trying to 'find a way into Aaron's thought patterns' -- hey, is that anything like what happens when you watch these mind-numbing videos day after day, week after week, month after month, year after year? Anyway, as you, too, are lining up to get your two cents worth in, why don't you put your money where your mouth is and tell us about 'all those changes' you went through. For example, tell Aaron just how it was thinking Maharaji was the actual creator of the entire universe in human form. You might start by explaining how you reacted to statements like the following, his intro to our propoganda magazine: 'Dear Reader, By the grace of Almighty Lord, we bring you the magazine And It Is Divine. You will find this magazine very different from others, because it shows not only the suffering of the world, but also a way out for all humanity. There has never been a time when the Lord of Creation did not manifest Himself in human form, and come to this planet Earth to do away with evil and spread the True Knowledge. But history is a pendulum which is always in swing. There have been so many scriptures, but still people have never been able to understand Him. Divine Light Mission wants to bring world peace by sharing the Knowledge which is within us by the grace of Almighty Lord. In this magazine, we hope to give information about the peace which lives within us, which Guru Maharaj Ji reveals.' Too much. I can't wait to hear your explanation. Now I wonder why you don't want to offer it here in the open so that others can comment. You're not SHY or anything, are you? So why should you and Aaron whisper about these things? Too fucking much. But the funniest thing of all about your post, op, is your final suggestion. Aaron should talk with his parents. That's fine. Should he ask them questions? Should he trust his own mind and not accept trite cult-generated whitewash? And Maharaji? That's the best. He should 'feel if Maharaji has something to communicate'. You asshole! You accuse us of trying to influence this guy! By what? By helping him get a few answers? You just want him to get sucked in by your little greasy Lard of the Universe! Why don't you ask him to listen to Maharaji, see if what Maharaji says makes sense or not and then, ask Maharaji questions if and where it doesn't? Anything less is just asking Aaron to give up his mind, sweetie. You know it, I know it and -- I got news for you -- Aaron knows it too. You're trying to get him to stifle his mind, aren't you? Come on, admit it. Why don't you tell Aaron to read the secret brainwashing manual instructors follow to get him to give up his independent mind? You know, the one right here: http://www.ex-premie.org/pages/manual.htm Explain to him how no premie will ever try to undermine his own free thought and explain to him how the Instructor's are trained to respect peoples' individuality. Better still, read the manual yourslef and weep. You like freedom of thought? Well honey, you on the wrong side! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Oct 17, 1998 at 14:46:03 (EDT)
From: Rick Email: None To: Jim Subject: You're joking, right? Message: Lard of the Universe Brilliant, Jim. Very, very good. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Oct 18, 1998 at 09:38:48 (EDT)
From: Brian Email: brian@ex-premie.org To: op Subject: think for yourSELF Message: I'm responding to your post because you commented about my 'open-minded' response to Aaron's questions/statements. I also read Jim's response to you and understand his angry words. The problem is that you don't understand them. Yet you provoke them. You've referred to me as a 'Jim-wannabee' in the past, completely overlooking the fact that I am not Jim. It's an easy way to deal with similarities in viewpoints that are different from your own - lump those people together. I've done it myself. Were Aaron to have posted instead to some non-existent open forum hosted by the Premie Island gang, you would not have recommended that he (I'm gonna pick a gender here) listen to his parents. You would have spoken from the heart that he should listen to Maharaji. It's your actual opinion that Maharaji has a message that is beneficial to others. But you pick your words according to the platform. Jim would have said the same thing as he did on the other fictional forum because he doesn't practice situational ethics. That is the problem that I have with premies and those who actually live their lives according to Maharaji's 'teachings'. There is no center to them. No concrete base that is there to rely on. What is one day supposed to be yelled in the street, is now being offered by invitation only at private video screenings. There are different responses provided for different people, and there are obedient followers to offer up the canned responses. People who were once seekers of truth are now practicing lies. It's all because that's what Maharaji wants. Premies (broad brush being used here) vacate their moral centers by adopting Maharaji's whims as being Life's Given. I can't go along with that, and I can't recommend that anyone get involved with the blindness required before one is allowed to see light. But that in no way negates what I experienced in satsang -- both by listening and speaking myself from my own heart. Where is that actually being encouraged by either Maharaji or his devotees now?? I would rather steer someone to Satpal if I were to actually view the whole thing as being a benefit, rather than to his little brother who has proven himself as better practiced at wringing conditions and money from people as a hidden pricetag on his 'free gift'. Maharaji is a fraud. Those who continue to view him as the source of their spiritual experience in life are practitioners of self-deception. That they are afraid to speak up and spout the gibberish firsthand is nothing that I can respect. I don't often post here any more because I've discovered that as a practicing premie I'm more likely to get chewed up than listened to here. You've been listened to here dating back to Forum I. You've been responded to at every post by those who would question the beliefs underpinning your statements. You've chosen to dance away at those times, inviting the angry teeth by frustratingly refusing to respond honestly. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Oct 18, 1998 at 19:24:57 (EDT)
From: Helen Email: None To: Brian Subject: No center, no core Message: Yes, Brian. So well said...there IS no center to the teachings, 'no concrete base'. That is so true. The center, if there is one, could be described as 'enjoying life'. But my question is How can one really enjoy life with no core or center of any substance? 'Enjoying life' just on its own is such a vacuous philosophy. If you asked 5 different premies what GM's philosophy or values are, would you get 5 different answers or a 'canned response' ? Helen Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Oct 19, 1998 at 00:19:48 (EDT)
From: Brian Email: brian@ex-premie.org To: Helen Subject: No center, no core Message: If you asked 5 different premies what GM's philosophy or values are, would you get 5 different answers or a 'canned response'? That's an interesting question. There was a time when you could probably find 5 different premies who would actually take it upon themselves to try to explain what they'd heard him say. I'm not sure you could find that many now. But still they'd disagree. Nice part about speaking entirely in parable/stories is that the listener gets to provide all the content and meaning, while the speaker gets credit for all the wisdom and insight. Maharaji's message is simple and unchanging: Realize this Knowledge. Oops! I mean: Devote yourself to Guru Maharaj Ji. Oops again! I meant to say: Never delay in attending satsang/videos/events/fundraisings/my whims. Sheeesh!! That's not it EITHER... Ask Booth Dyess, Helen. He probably knows this stuff better than I do... Besides, Booth is probably the guy that Maharaji checks with when HE has any questions... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Oct 19, 1998 at 12:25:46 (EDT)
From: Helen Email: None To: Brian Subject: The Clothes Make the Man Message: What I think is so interesting as that probably not one of them would say: ' Maharaji's values & philosophy are: To have lots of expensive cars, homes, and planes; & to have all of the power and none of the responsibility.' His message, I think, is to be blissed out, to erase all concepts from your mind....including values & philosophies. I think that he has a certain amount of intelligence & charisma and carries himself in a confident way. His booming voice that could have quite a loving ring to it, his jokes, his nice Italian suits. And he does have glowing skin, I think it's the skin. Oh God, I love him so!! Sniff, sniff. Just one more trip through the darshan line, I just have to see him, oh GOD! Oh, sorry, what was I saying? I once met DC's Mayor Marion Barry at a dinner...I worked for his Youth Leadership Institute (teaching kids) one summer. It was the summer he got busted for crack. He sat next to me at the dinner! He is a very handsome man, and had on a gorgeous suit, beautifully cut, impeccable. And his skin is just smooth and gorgeous. I asked him a few challenging questions (about the way the Youth Leadership program was structured) and we had quite the chat. The point I am trying to make here is that charisma and confidence and a well-cut suit, and nice skin, and a sense of humor can be quite inspiring to people. But, jeez, is that enough to be a Lord??? Helen Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Oct 19, 1998 at 12:40:13 (EDT)
From: Helen Email: None To: Brian Subject: PS to The Clothes Make the Man Message: Maybe we could convince Mattel to make 'Pranam Ken' a doll that looks like Maharaji. He could have several different outfits: His Krishna outfit, his business suit, his darshan outfit. Lots of accessories like his Krishna hat, darshan throne. Extras like 'The Residence' play mansion with several fancy cars could be sold You could squeeze his tummy and hear such dewdrops of timeless wisdom as 'Meditate on the knowledge' 'It's all so simple, premies' and 'Can I buy your airplane?' This would be a kind of harmless toy for people like me who miss the well cut suits. What do you think. Probably someone on this site has already come up with this idea, but I just couldn't resist. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Oct 19, 1998 at 14:35:20 (EDT)
From: hamzen Email: None To: Helen Subject: PS to The Clothes Make the Man Message: 'miss the well cut suits.' Helen, PLEASE, PLEASE don't say you liked the ties as well. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Oct 19, 1998 at 14:54:44 (EDT)
From: Helen Email: None To: hamzen Subject: PS to The Clothes Make the Man Message: Oh the ties....I gave him one of those ties...it was back at Hans Jyanti, he wore it for satsang and I knew it was just for ME, a signal to me of how special I am to Him. Sigh. The Ken Pranam doll will have to have a Rolex watch too. Kind of like a Princess Di doll--lots of expensive stuff that I will never be able to afford! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Oct 19, 1998 at 16:43:48 (EDT)
From: Mike Email: None To: Helen Subject: Integrity MAKES a... Message: Helen: Personally, I always thought that 'integrity' made the (wo)man. Hmmmm.... he he he. Hey, tell me how do you specify sizes for M: LARD and Extra-LARD and Extra-Extra-Lard? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Oct 20, 1998 at 14:24:01 (EDT)
From: Helen Email: None To: Mike Subject: Integrity MAKES a... Message: One size fits all in the land where we all take our medicine and have precisely the same thoughts...in Teletubby Land! (: Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Oct 20, 1998 at 08:24:32 (EDT)
From: hamzen Email: None To: Helen Subject: PS to The Clothes Make the Man Message: That is,I think, the first time for ages that I've felt sick and laughed at the same time. This site should carry a health warning! Your post made me think of something me gran used to say with a smile, 'you're wasted, you should be on the stage'. Like your style. :) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Oct 20, 1998 at 14:31:15 (EDT)
From: Helen Email: None To: hamzen Subject: PS to The Clothes Make the Man Message: Are you the one with the Irish grannie? Jeesus, Mary , and Joseph but I'm having a good ol' time with the former devotees of the 'Guru formerly known as Lord'. I think it was you who said yer Irish grannie said 'If we can't laugh we're all done fer' or something of that nature. Oh, laughin is so good fer us all, me brother. As me ol' cousin Patrick McDougal McFerland, O'Connel used to say down at the pub. Take care, Helen Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Oct 18, 1998 at 10:59:31 (EDT)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: op&Aaron Subject: think for yourSELF Message: Dear op and Aaron, First I'd like to say a bit on Brian. He has a quick wit and I love his posts, everyone but he is also a caring human being and I didn't find his response to Aaron out of the context of his personality. Op, as far as not thinking some of the things said here are true, ie. M's drinking etc. There have been people who have been close to M, PAM, who have told of these things, they are not just rumors they are eye witness accounts that you choose not to believe because of your position as a premie. I recently met an ex who had been a PAM before the Mellenium festival in Huston who has a real caring for M as a person still but he saw M go from a child thrust into the position of Lord who took it seriously and wanted to help change the world to a teenager who was loosing the grip on that dream and in the process who was being sucked into an existance of lies, drugs, drinking and deciet. This man I met says he has compassion for M because he saw what he really was in the begining and got away and wants others to be aware because he knows that that seed of goodness is all but gone from the organization. Op, I don't know you at all but I wonder how you 'know' that these allegations are not true? Do you have proof or are you just being loyal to the Lord of the Universe. There is a web address in a post by Mike called brainwashing that I have been reading and find quite facinating. I think you and Aaron and everyone premie or not could gain a lot from reading. Best to both of you. Love, Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Oct 19, 1998 at 14:54:14 (EDT)
From: Mike Email: None To: op Subject: think for yourSELF Message: op: Are you fully-realized after 27 years of practice, or not? Answer the damned question 'yes' or 'no'! You say that you answer questions, then answer that one. If you can't answer that one or the answer is 'no' then you are fully-UNQUALIFIED to give aaron that advice. You are, by default, talking about something with whicj you have NO experience. We are qualified to express our thoughts and ideas here BECAUSE we aren't (and never were) realized so we are emminantly qualified to express THAT as FACT! Do you get it, or is the logic of this arguement lost on you? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Oct 15, 1998 at 22:57:10 (EDT)
From: Brian Email: brian@ex-premie.org To: Everyone Subject: Yet more Elan Vital gibberish Message: I got this little gem in the snailmail today. Just a little 'suggestion' passed out the the ushers doing service at events, and was in use in July of 1998:
1. Please do not initiate contact with the media (either in person, by phone, letter or email), even if you disagree with something they may have written. 2. If they approach you, offer to refer representatives from the media to an Elan Vital public relations representative. Please firmly decline to answer their questions yourself. (See suggestions below.) 3 Contact a member of the Elan Vital public relations team if you see or hear of a story in the papers, on radio or TV. National Public Representative: Booth Dyess (888) 902-0899 (Toll-free message service) SAMPLE RESPONSES TO MINIMIZE ANY CONTACT WITH THE MEDIA:
Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Oct 15, 1998 at 23:49:18 (EDT)
From: Helen Email: None To: Brian Subject: Yet more Elan Vital gibberish Message: Jeez, they don't trust people to talk extemporaneously at all, do they? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Oct 16, 1998 at 03:39:49 (EDT)
From: jethro Email: None To: Brian Subject: Yet more Elan Vital gibberish Message: In the late 70s I was 'introductory coordinator' in London. I always had the press sent to me, where I talked to them often for several hours, giving them loads of satsang...and never was a word printed....you see i was so devoted that I stood up to everything(in HIS name of course). I even think a few of the reporters ended up getting k. Clearly we didn't need the above crap, we were trully devoted. This doesn't exist today,,,they are all scared to speak. Why do not they declare their lord? Prempal lost a good opportunity to create something grand in the world. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Oct 17, 1998 at 12:35:13 (EDT)
From: Sir David Email: David.Studio57@btinternet.com To: jethro Subject: I agree, Jethro Message: But isn't all of this the result of what happens when someone PRETENDS to be the Lord and then realises it has got way out of hand since people have really taken it to heart. Myself, in the seventies, I used to relish it when people asked me about Maharaji and knowledge. I could talk for hours about it and feel really enthusiastic and blissed out. If Maharaji HAD been God incarnate, the whole thing would have taken off like a rocket with all of us devotees to spread the word. But a pretend Lord now has to spend time covering his tracks and denying the past ever happened. He even has the gall to ridicule those of us who believed he was the Lord and gave our lives and hearts to him. That takes the biscuit! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Oct 16, 1998 at 07:44:00 (EDT)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Brian Subject: Yet more Elan Vital gibberish Message: Dear Brian and all, Well, isn't this just to convenient! No need to EVER THINK! Maybe someone should work out scripts for any possible conversation. All thinking really should be abolished to get the full effect of K! :) Love, Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Oct 16, 1998 at 10:19:18 (EDT)
From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Robyn Subject: Yet more Elan Vital scripts Message: You don't have any idea how many types of scripts there are in EV. Some of thoses 'coordinators' spend their lives writing them, one after another. They have scripts for programs, video events, the residence, anything. I still own some regarding about translation equipments, and I must humbly admit that I wrote at least one or 2 myself! What a shame.... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Oct 16, 1998 at 14:30:16 (EDT)
From: Selene Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: Yet more Elan Vital scripts Message: All of this stuff really irks me. If this is a life changing positive experience, with all that they promise, why be so absolutely careful about the press? When they pull that stuff at work, like when we have y2K panics or virus scares that reach the media, they try to tell me to send all inquiries to so and so. It's like saying 'you don't have the intelligence or tact to know how to represent the organization you belong to and have been part of forever. I resent it. I think this whole thing with EV scripts does nothing but prove again how creepy and secretive and false the whole thing is. Thanks for the post JM and Brian. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Oct 16, 1998 at 21:29:07 (EDT)
From: Sir David Email: david.studio57@btinternet.com To: Anyone Subject: When the reporter met Mary Message: Here's what could have happened when a newspaper reporter wandered into a video event one evening, before they put the video on. REPORTER: Hi there. I'm from the Daily Globe. Is the Maharaji coming to speak this evening? PREMIE MARY: May I have your card? I'd be glad to request that the public relations representative for Elan Vital give you a call. I'm sure that person could answer your questions. REPORTER: Erm, sorry, there seems to be a misunderstanding. I'd be interested to hear the Maharaji speaking since we haven't heard much from him since the sixties when the Beatles became his disciples. MARY: Our video events are by invitation only and not open to the media. However, I could let you borrow an introductory video. Would that be helpful? Let me just get your name and phone and the name of your organization. REPORTER: Oh well, anyway, how long have you been a disciple of the Guru Maharaji? MARY: I'm just a volunteer helping with these video screenings. However, I would be glad to take your card and have the public relations representative for Elan Vital get in touch with you. When would be a good time to call you? REPORTER: Are all these (four) people in this room disciples of the Maharaji Yogi? He doesn't seem to be getting many followers these days does he? MARY: I'm sorry, I'm not really informed about what you're asking. If you'd like, I could ask the public relations officer for Elan Vital to call you. That's the organization that produces the videos. When's the best time for someone to reach you? REPORTER: Does the Maharaji still have a long beard? Have you got any recent photos? MARY: May I have your card? I'd be glad to request that the public relations representative for Elan Vital give you a call. I'm sure that person could answer your questions. The reporter gives her his card and turns to a middle aged premie sitting staring at a blank TV screen. REPORTER: Excuse me, are you a disciple of the guru? PREMIE: No answer. REPORTER: Sorry pal. I didn't realise you'd taken a Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Oct 16, 1998 at 21:42:35 (EDT)
From: Sir David Email: None To: Sir David again Subject: When the reporter met Mary 2 Message: Reporter gives her his card and turns to a middle aged premie sitting staring at a blank TV screen. Reporter: Excuse me, are you a disciple of the guru? Premie: No answer. Reporter: Sorry pal. I didn't realise you'd taken a vow of silence. Reporter rushes off back to the pub to write his article for the next day's newspaper about guru worshippers taking vows of silence and meditating on blank TV screens in secret in small library rooms. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Oct 16, 1998 at 23:26:52 (EDT)
From: Gerry Email: None To: Sir David Subject: Good one , David, LOL- nt Message: Hey, I did a spit-take on the keyboard-- wasted some good Cal Cab. Damn you Brits--don't know the value of a good wine... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Oct 17, 1998 at 01:52:38 (EDT)
From: Gail Email: None To: Sir David Subject: When the reporter met Mary 2 Message: Over the top for sure! Well done. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Oct 16, 1998 at 21:42:48 (EDT)
From: VP Email: None To: Brian Subject: Ironic stuff, Brian Message: This from the guy who was going to bring peace to the world--what was the quote? Something about 'Why be shy? Shout it in the streets!' This cult is unbelievable. I can't believe any adults could read that and not realize they were covering up something fraudulant. Unless they were brainwashed, of course. Maharaji sells 'simple', yet his organization is full of so much complexity just keeping a lid on the information. Hearts and souls are squelched, not freed. There is so much irony in this. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Oct 17, 1998 at 00:57:55 (EDT)
From: JW Email: None To: Brian Subject: Yet more Elan Vital gibberish Message: Brian you left off these that were included in the COMPLETE Elan Vital list .... 'If you are asked a question by a reporter, just bald-face lie. Tell them you are as dumb as a mud fence and have no idea what any of this is about. Tell them to call Booth Dyess in another state.' 'If a member of the media approaches you, just stare blankly and POINT to one of the answers on this sheet. Pretend to be even more mentally retarded that you are. Call Booth Dyess right away. Remember, Maharaji expects dumb. Dumb, dumb, dumb!' Don't let him down. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Oct 17, 1998 at 02:44:42 (EDT)
From: Brian Email: brian@ex-premie.org To: JW Subject: Yet more Elan Vital gibberish Message: 'If you are asked a question by a reporter, just bald-face lie. Tell them you are as dumb as a mud fence and have no idea what any of this is about. Tell them to call Booth Dyess in another state.' 'If a member of the media approaches you, just stare blankly and POINT to one of the answers on this sheet. Pretend to be even more mentally retarded that you are. Call Booth Dyess right away. Remember, Maharaji expects dumb. Dumb, dumb, dumb!' Don't let him down. I had to laugh out loud at your comments, JW. It's obvious why the Millennium fizzled. Those who could cut through the crap -- they all left. Those who wallowed around in it -- they stayed to put it into words. Thanks for the belly laugh!! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Oct 17, 1998 at 21:18:54 (EDT)
From: Helen Email: None To: JW Subject: Yet more Elan Vital gibberish Message: HA!!!!!!!! 'Dumb as a mud fence' Oh God, you're killin' me here! Helen Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Oct 18, 1998 at 10:28:56 (EDT)
From: seymour Email: None To: Helen Subject: Yet more Elan Vital gibberish Message: Thanks Brian for bringing the E.V.gibberish to our attention and thanks David and JW for the amusing posts. I haven't laughed so much since Jim's Maharaji party or the Skoda thread or...actually there have been quite a few witty posts, too many to mention - let's hope there will be lot's more as 'dere's nuttin' better than a good laff, bejasus' as my old Irish Gran used to say. Cheers Seymour Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Oct 15, 1998 at 20:12:21 (EDT)
From: eno Email: eno@redcrow.demon.co.uk To: Everyone Subject: bow, wow, wow your boat.. Message: Colin was talking. The sun-bleached hairs on his tanned, muscular arms somehow belied the limp, insipid quality of his thoughts. All the while he manovered his left oar in perfect sync with Mark's right. It all felt so crispily, crunchily, smoothly right somehow, as the dwindling sun sent its late evening rays across the calm waters of the bay in a familiar enough manner which might, for those with eyes to see it, easily be mistaken for a cosmic blessing. Just as if the whole world had come back from the laundry, smelling towelly-clean and lovely. Premie Island was at last hoving into view. 'Look! There it is! Premie Island is hoving into view.' 'Hoving? What the frig's hoving..?' said Josie, not feeling especially towelly-clean and forgetting again she was not actually a scouser. Jonathan sat poetically at the prow, the slight breeze ruffling his thinning locks delightfully as he gazed photogenically upwards, trying to distinguish the Little Brown Bear from the Great Northern Frying Pan. 'And when we get there we'll hoist up the Big Drip ensign atop the topmost turret for passing seafarers and when they sail by and we'll invite them all ashore for tea and biscuits and really good fun and picnics and buried treasure...' said Colin. 'And rum?' Josie enquired. 'Well maybe rum 'n' raisin ice-cream. They'll love it. I know I do...' 'Yeah, but what about the Rotters?' scowled Josie, fumbling absently and suspiciously beneath the rear seat of Uncle Quentin's clinker-built rower. 'Gosh, you're right, Josie', said Mark. 'They might try picking an argument, then sustaining that argument to logical, er, concussions, and because we're not argumentative - thanks to Uncle Quentin - they might might even start thinking they'd won the argument and we'd be all at sea then...!' Mark was being ironic. He chuckled nervously but noted Colin's icy stare. 'Er - what would happen then..?' Mark grinned sheepishly. 'Oh, we won't have any Rotters ashore,' Colin continued with carefully rehearsed natural authority. 'You can spot the Rotters a mile off.' 'How exactly?' 'Er... well, yes, I guess it's not always easy, but we could - you know - build a stockade all the way around...' 'Yeah yeah...' sighed Josie. 'Like on Treasure Island..?' Mark suddenly interjected. 'Absolutely - just like on Treasure Island' said Colin, 'and we'll have this secure gate where Blind Pugh or maybe Mark or Jonathan stands and asks visitors for...' 'A password..?' Mark suddenly interjected. 'Exactly! - a password. That's brilliant! Thanks Mark. No, that's stupid. No way will a password suffice.' Colin remembered, authoritatively. 'No, of course not,' Mark suddenly interjected. 'I think what we should do instead...' Colin pondered. 'And so do I...' Mark suddenly interjected. 'Mark, will you stop suddenly interjecting while I'm trying to ponder. I preferred it when you just suddenly ejaculated then shut the frig up. Got me?' 'Absolutely.' Mark suddenly ejaculated then shut the frig up. 'I think what we should do instead is ask all visitors to give their name and address and then SAY SOMETHING NICE ABOUT UNCLE QUENTIN! That should fox them! Don't you see? The rotters hate Uncle Quentin so won't be able to think of anything nice to say...' 'That's wonderful, Colin' Mark was about to interject but didn't. 'That's frigging stupid.'said Josie. The Shameless Five fell silent for a moment as the oars continued to splish-splash their happy course across the bay. Silence, they knew from experience, led to less trouble all round than too much discourse. 'But what if the passing seafarers start off by saying something nice about Uncle Quentin then go on to say something about him that other friends of Uncle Quentin might misconstrue as being not quite so nice when the person saying it didn't even mean it to be not quite so nice but was just, y'know, asking..?' queried Mark, 'Do we still let them come treasure-hunting?' 'Well maybe if we discourage passing seafarers from talking to one another, that particular eventuality will never distract us from Uncle's real purpose...' said Colin. A troubled frown temporarily occupied the space where Colin's index finger usually sat whenever he had a minute or two in his busy shedule. But his mind came to the rescue: 'It's our Island, after all, and we can make the rules... provided, of course, that Uncle Quentin approves. We'll allow them to say something nice about Uncle Quentin provided they go straight home in time for tea.' The Shameless Five fell silent for yet another, further, different trouble-free moment. Colin noticed some confused expressions 'OK. So that was my mind.' said Colin. 'I had to think for a moment in order to answer Mark's question. But remember, too, that Uncle has said that 'Thoughts are God's gift to you. What you think about is your gift to yourself.' So, in other words, even though your mind is the devil, Uncle Quentin said it will be all right to think provided you only think when you're Uncle Quentin himself or you're making a gift to yourself. In this particular instance I was making a gift to myself. OK? - Yes, I think that's what happened there...' 'You had better say thanks to both of you, then, brother', hissed Josie Jonathan was oblivious: 'Look, if you align the leftmost stars of the Great Northern Frying Pan - top and bottom - they actually point to Polaris the, er, Big Polar Bear. Meanwhile Jupiter, bringer of Jollity, currently in the twelfth house, which is - of course - Karma , will transit tomorrow. Is that cool or is that cool?. Don't you find it tragic the way so-called scientific astronomers can waste a lifetime studying this stuff yet never see the deeper meaning of it all ... So much meaning everywhere, and so few of us can see it.' 'Awooahwooahwooahwoo' howled Timmy, an almost imperceptible, mocking smirk playing on his doggy lips. (to be continued...) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Oct 17, 1998 at 21:49:38 (EDT)
From: Sir David Email: David.Studio57@btinternet.com To: eno Subject: bow, wow, wow your boat.. Message: Having been a regular reader of Enid Blyton's books when I was a child, I really like these 'Shameless Five' satires. With your satire and my silly reports, we could start a new mag and call it 'Private Third Eye' although these yanks won't know what I'm talking about, will they. Anyway, brilliant satire, Nigel and very funny. Thanks. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Oct 18, 1998 at 05:30:42 (EDT)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Sir David Subject: bow, wow, wow your boat.. Message: Dear Nigel and Sir, I never heard of the 'Shamless Five' but have enjoyed the hell out of our stories also, thanks Nigel. I am glad I haven't seen the books or it might color my 'third eye's' illustration of you story. God knows I'd better not use my 'mind's eye'! I also LOVE 'The Private Third Eye' magazine title, even if there is a pun I am missing. Love, Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Oct 18, 1998 at 06:51:11 (EDT)
From: Sir D Email: David.Studio57@btinternet.com To: Robyn Subject: bow, wow, wow your boat.. Message: Robyn; Nigel's 'Shameless Five' is a satire of Enid Blyton's children's books about the 'Famous Five. These were written around the 1950s and most of our generation in Britain have read them. In Edin Blyton's books, there's four children and a gog named Timmy and Nigel's parody is written in exactly the same style of her books. In Britain, we have a satirical magazine called 'Private Eye' which takes the piss out of politicians and other people in the public eye. It also exposes all their grubby secrets. Now you're a little clearer, yes? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Oct 18, 1998 at 08:42:55 (EDT)
From: Helen Email: None To: Sir D Subject: bow, wow, wow your boat.. Message: My Aussie second cousin told me about the 'Famous Five' TV show and sang the Famous Five song for me a couple of times. I guess it's part of Aussie kids' growing up too. The song was a hoot. Helen Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Oct 18, 1998 at 09:56:00 (EDT)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Sir D Subject: bow, wow, wow your boat.. Message: Dear David, Thanks for the explination. That made me think about that British show that is no longer on the air, I believe, that was a satire on polititians and other famous people. They made characture(sp) puppets, I am sure you know what show I mean. Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Oct 19, 1998 at 05:58:24 (EDT)
From: Sir D Email: David.Studio57@btinternet.com To: Robyn Subject: bow, wow, wow your boat.. Message: That show was called 'Spitting Image' and I hope they have a new series soon. It was brilliant. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Oct 19, 1998 at 10:13:27 (EDT)
From: hamzen Email: None To: Sir D Subject: bow, wow, wow your boat.. Message: Especially the early series where they were really letting rip and didn't play it at all safe. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Oct 20, 1998 at 08:29:46 (EDT)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: hamzen Subject: bow, wow, wow your boat.. Message: Dear Hamzen, Like the Smothers Brother's comedy show in the 60's over here. Totally irreverent and wonderful! Love, Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Oct 20, 1998 at 14:22:24 (EDT)
From: hamzen Email: None To: Robyn Subject: bow, wow, wow your boat.. Message: Don't ever remember seeing the Smothers Brothers, though the name is familiar. Talking of irreverance, keep thinking of happenings in the sixties, those wonderful moments of street magic. Read your post, flashback to David Frost interviewing members of the Yippee Party on TV. Remember how they put him at ease at the start of the interview, of course he becomes the consummate media professional, starts thinking this lot are easy-peasy. Water pistols are whipped out, Frost outraged, within a few seconds you see his whole no of media masks completely exposed, as he stands there with water dripping off him. His mind was blown, just perfect, wish I had it on video. :) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Oct 15, 1998 at 15:42:07 (EDT)
From: JW Email: None To: Everyone Subject: That Reminds Me Message: Wasn't there a reporter from People Magazine who was doing an article on guru's from the 70s? And didn't someone say that she was going to propose publishing it in connection with the 25th anniversary of the Millennium festival, which is next month? Has anyone heard anything more about that, or talked to the reporter? I remember she contacted me, and I told her some stuff, but I haven't heard anything for a long time. By the way, anyone think Maharaji and the premies will hold a 25th anniversary celebration at the Houston Astrodome? Maybe they could get the rest of the holy family to participate, for old times sake. Maybe with BOTH perfect masters there, the Astrodome really would levitate this time. Seriously, I think maybe we should be contacting the press to tell them about the anniversary of 'the most significant event in the history of the world.' Now that this website is online, they can get all kinds of good information. They can also read the 'enjoyinglife' site to see that premies are still as lobotomized as they appeared in the Lord of The Universe Video. Hey, we can give them a copy of that too!!!!! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Oct 15, 1998 at 16:19:57 (EDT)
From: Mc Email: e_mc_42@hotmail.com To: JW, All Subject: LOTU Message: JW: What is the availability of the LOTU video? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Oct 15, 1998 at 17:10:04 (EDT)
From: Katie Email: petkat@mail.trib.net To: Mc Subject: LOTU Message: Hi Mc - There are several copies of the LOTU video circulating around right now. I don't have my personal copy because I lent it to someone else, but he/she should be returning it soon. If you e-mail me, I will try and locate a copy for you to borrow, as long as you PROMISE to send it back! Regards, Katie Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Oct 15, 1998 at 21:36:06 (EDT)
From: VP Email: None To: Katie Subject: LOTU Message: Katie, I have a copy, but I thought it was mine to keep. Let me know if I am supposed to return it. Also, I have the Long Beach tape with the introductory video--does this go on to Brian now? Also the famed lipstick tapes came into view while going through some tapes this week. Do those go to Brian, too, or back to you. I have procrastinated sending this stuff on, but now I have to get it out of here. Thanks. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Oct 15, 1998 at 21:57:36 (EDT)
From: Katie Email: petkat@mail.trib.net To: VP Subject: LOTU and Lipstick Message: Hi Veep - Keep the LOTU - it was a copy that I made specifically for you (by the way, JW, I made SEVEN copies!). But you can send me all the videos, and I'll send them to Brian, JW, or whoever. If anyone wants to borrow these (they are tapes of M speaking produced by Visions International), let me know. Thanks much, Katie Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Oct 15, 1998 at 17:45:05 (EDT)
From: JW Email: None To: Mc Subject: LOTU Message: I got a copy from Jim and I had two copies made at not inconsiderable expense. I have since sent all three copies on to to other people (Joy, Rick and Mickey) so I don't have one anymore. Maybe one of them can send you a copy. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Oct 15, 1998 at 17:48:10 (EDT)
From: Mc Email: e_mc_42@hotmail.com To: JW Subject: LOTU Message: Thanks for the response; I'm in touch with Katie - she offered to forward a copy when she gets one. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Oct 15, 1998 at 16:26:53 (EDT)
From: Mc Email: e_mc_42@hotmail.com To: All Subject: That Reminds Me Message: Remember the sideshow item the 'Positive Ion Machine' (or was it negative ion) at the Millenium festival? I think there were other 'exhibits' all under the auspices of Shri Bal Bagwan Ji. Maybe I'm just imagining it - these were zany times indeed. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Oct 15, 1998 at 18:05:17 (EDT)
From: Helen Clark Email: None To: JW Subject: That Reminds Me Message: Great idea! I have some contacts here in the DC area. What do you think? Helen Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Oct 15, 1998 at 18:41:13 (EDT)
From: Mike Email: None To: Helen Clark Subject: DC? Message: Helen: How long were you a premie in dc? what dates? Do you remember the ashram that was down about a block from mass avenue, around the embassies? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Oct 15, 1998 at 20:51:55 (EDT)
From: Helen Email: None To: Mike Subject: DC? Message: Yes! I went there one time, but I wasn't a premie then. When I was in high school I met premies at a restaurant I worked at in Georgetown. They were very sweet, but it wasn't for me. Then I lived in the Grand Rapids, MI area for 3 years, and then in Madison, WI for 3 years. Those were my big premie years. I moved back to the DC area in 83 or 84...where do you live Mike? Were you a DC -er at one point. I actually live in Maryland now. Helen Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Oct 15, 1998 at 22:03:32 (EDT)
From: Katie Email: None To: Helen Subject: DC - off topic Message: Hi Helen - I keep meaning to tell you this, but I am from the DC area, and basically lived there from 1956, when I was born, till 1986. [BTW, I am not Katie Baier from the Journeys section, I am Katie (Mischa) Haering.] I lived all over the DC, VA, and MD area: Alexandria, Fairfax, Reston (where I grew up, mostly), NW DC, Bethesda, Gaithersburg, College Park, Greenbelt, and Riverdale. Went to school at U. of Md, got a job and moved to southwest Virginia where I met my husband, and now we live in the Midwest. I still miss the east coast though, although after living in smaller towns I don't think I could deal with DC again. Oh yeah, I was a DC premie from 1972 to 1977, so we probably never met, at least not as premies. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Oct 15, 1998 at 23:24:37 (EDT)
From: Helen Email: None To: Katie Subject: DC - off topic Message: Hi Katie, I gather you are one of the webmasters of this site. I can't tell you enough what a terrific thing you and Brian and whoever else is involved with creating & upkeeping this site.. What a great thing to tell all our dreaded secrets and get clarification that indeed we were involved in something destructive to our psyches & lives. I miss the Midwest a lot and fantasize about moving back there one day--especially miss Michigan. Dc is quite the hustley bustley place. I deal with the beltway each and every day during rush hour AIEEE!! I live in Gaithersburg--actually, as you know Maryland is quite pretty and there are plenty of opportunities for me to get away to the outdoors. Your name (your premie name) sounds familiar to me. We may have met during the time I was in high school and my first 2 years of college when I was still in the DC area--I went to a few satsangs in Bethesda. Did you know a couple named TC and David and a woman named Willow? It's a small world, eh? Certainly through the web, so much is possible what with people fm Canada, London, the west coast. etc all talking to each other. It's fun! Thanks again for helping to make this website possible. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Oct 16, 1998 at 09:30:06 (EDT)
From: Katie Email: petkat@mail.trib.net To: Helen Subject: DC - off topic Message: Hi again, Helen, Thanks very much for what you said about the site. I don't really think of myself as webmaster though. I prefer to think of myself as Brian's administrative assistant. I'm learning how to make web pages but can't say I'm there yet. I do take care of a lot of the little stuff. I know TC (Tomiclair) and Willow well. They went to high school with my younger sister (also an ex), who still lives in Reston, and she still keeps in touch with them. About fifteen people that I knew from high school and elsewhere received K in the early 1970's. Nobody is still practicing except for (maybe) one person. It was kind of fun going to satsang with so many younger people - we used to really have a good time on the drive to satsang and back (chit-chat and cutting up). My sister and her friends (TC and Willow included) had a 'Divine Light Club' in their high school (Herndon HS). She has a yearbook with a picture of the club in it, and I keep trying to get her to let me scan the picture for the site. It's really funny. I never went to satsang in the Bethesda ashrams - when I left, the ashram was on Fessenden St. in DC - but JW was community coordinator there for several months in 1979, so you might have met him. About the Midwest: I live in Missouri and I really do not like it very much. (I hope I'm not stepping on anyone's toes here!) We moved from the mountains of Virginia to the mountains of Colorado, and then to mid-Missouri, so maybe I'm just spoiled. My husband is from the Madison, Wisconsin area so he likes Missouri more than I do, but we both prefer Wisconsin. Have never been to Michigan except the UP, but it's really beautiful up there. Take care, Helen Katie Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Oct 16, 1998 at 22:14:57 (EDT)
From: Helen Email: None To: Katie Subject: DC - off topic Message: It is a small world. Wow. Say hi to them for me. Willow and I were roommates for awhile. I probably drove her crazy. Wisconsin is gorgeous...can see why you miss it. My sister lives in the mountains near Charlottesville--I'm spoiled because I get to visit her a lot. The Divine Light CLub in high school. WOw. WOuld love to see that. I was in the Frank Zappa Club! Take care Helen Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Oct 16, 1998 at 22:22:27 (EDT)
From: Helen Email: None To: Katie Subject: DC - off topic Message: When you say hi to TC, tell her you met 'Nellie' on the internet--I used to go by the name Nellie, and changed my name back to Helen when I lived in Madison. Helen Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Oct 16, 1998 at 21:55:49 (EDT)
From: VP Email: None To: Helen Subject: DC to Helen - off topic Message: Helen, I don't know if you like art, but have you seen the Van Gogh exhibit at the National Gallery? I think it runs through January third, doesn't it? It is free, BTW, but you have to have a pass. I am thinking of flying there for a weekend to check it out. I don't know if I will ever get to Holland, so this may be my big chance. If you have seen it, let me know what you think. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Oct 16, 1998 at 22:04:50 (EDT)
From: Helen Email: None To: VP Subject: DC to Helen - off topic Message: Haven't seen it, VP. When the VErmeer exhibit was here a few years ago, I didn't see that either, I could kick myself. I'm not a big Van Gogh fan, his work is disturbing to me, but I've heard the exhibit is produced beautifully and I'm sure it would be well worth the trip if you're a fan. I was just at the National Gallery a few weeks ago showing my Australian cousin around--it never ceases to amaze me how awesome that museum is. If you get to the Van GOgh exhibit and have time, make sure you go into the East WIng and see the exhibit of small French paintings. Another great museum is the Baltimore museum of Art. It has an amazing impressionist exhibit that was collected two wealthy sisters. the cone sisters. HAve fun! I hope you get to go! Helen Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Oct 16, 1998 at 22:43:03 (EDT)
From: VP Email: None To: Helen Subject: DC to Helen - off topic Message: Thanks for the tip on the East Wing. The last time I was there, I did not see those french paintings, so I will try to get in there sometime. Not this trip...the guards will have to drag me away from the Van Goghs, I'm afraid. Vermeer's work is something to see. Perhaps you will have another chance. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Oct 16, 1998 at 10:42:25 (EDT)
From: Mike Email: None To: Helen Subject: DC? Message: Helen: Yes, I was a dc/silverspring premie between 81 and 85. Since I was in the military, I wasn't as active (on a daily basis) in community stuff, but I was a good boy and went to satsang almost every night. There were some nice folks in the community during that time (I liked most of them). Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Oct 16, 1998 at 10:43:33 (EDT)
From: Mike Email: None To: Helen Subject: DC? Oops, PT 1 Message: Sorry Helen, I forgot to tell you that I live in Arizona, now. ;-) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Oct 16, 1998 at 14:04:54 (EDT)
From: Selene Email: None To: Mike Subject: arizona Message: Hi Mike If it's not too intrusive, where in arizona? I realize that's a lot to ask, since I am staying anonymous, but if you feel like telling me I'm curious, or you could email Katie and she'll tell me. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Oct 16, 1998 at 15:15:24 (EDT)
From: Mike Email: None To: Selene Subject: arizona Message: Selene: I don't mind a bit. I'm in Phoenix. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Oct 16, 1998 at 16:52:45 (EDT)
From: Selene Email: None To: Mike Subject: Tucson! Message: There's no there there. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Oct 16, 1998 at 17:10:33 (EDT)
From: Mike Email: None To: Selene Subject: Tucson! (off-topic) Message: Selene: So ya be a tucsonian. Actually, years ago (around 1955 or so) my family had a house down there on Speedway. I don't know if it still exists (probably not). Back then, speedway was a 'hick' road.... he he he. We moved to back Phoenix in 1956 and have been here ever since then. I'm several generations native to this state. I'm glad that my wife agreed that we should retire here. 'Ain't no place, around this place, that's anythin' like this place, so this must be the place!' Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Oct 16, 1998 at 17:17:15 (EDT)
From: Selene Email: None To: Mike Subject: Tucson! (off-topic) Message: Yeah, I am not *so* grumpy about living in AZ now that the weather has gotten cool (85 is cool once you live through an AZ summer) I like California better but there's no way my native Az husband is going there. I wonder how many ex's in the closet are in Arizona? It would be fun to know if they read this site. We never had much happening here. And now it's almost funny it's so pathetic. Or it's amost pathetic it's so funny. I'm not sure which. Hey you have a big time initiator living up there you know! Brian McDermott. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Oct 16, 1998 at 17:45:08 (EDT)
From: Mike Email: None To: Selene Subject: Tucson! (off-topic) Message: Selene: Yes, I had heard that Brian was here, but I haven't made any attempt at contact (OBVIOUSLY!) he he he he. Was/is your hubby a premie? As to ambient temperature.... Hey, only us arizonans can say the words, '115 degrees in the shade' and not actually passout from the thought.... he he he. Where sweat is a powder before it hits the ground! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Oct 16, 1998 at 18:10:18 (EDT)
From: Selene Email: None To: Mike Subject: he's not one Message: Thank whatever!! Never even heard of M til he met me. I was still muddled, brought him to a video 'event'. Later, when I got fed up (last December) and found this site, he told me he was so relieved I had given that up. He never fell for it. I am repeating myself here but one of the first questions he asked me after the 'noneventfilled' video - was, 'Does Maharaji give money to any charities or anything like that?' To which I responded 'he gives something more, something that will lst forever. Food would just be gone the next day' or some such crap. He really loves me, he didn't challenge that statement, but he never asked to go to the 'events' either. I am gradually making new friends who are not premies (none of them were ever my real friends anyway. How can they be when there's only 'one thing that's real and important in 'this' life'? I am constantly caught off guard by how loving and just plain nice these new friends are. And they respect boundaries. What a bravenew world!! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Oct 16, 1998 at 18:15:03 (EDT)
From: Selene Email: None To: Mike Subject: ps to he's not one Message: I just said he had never heard of M til he met me. But when Katie and Brian put 'The Kid' on here, he said it was one of the few Mr. Naturals that he remembered! It's so funny!! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Oct 16, 1998 at 22:27:20 (EDT)
From: Helen Email: None To: Selene Subject: he's not one Message: Your husband's a real smart man. I didn't figure out that charity thing until I was out of the cult for about 10 yrs! Helen Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Oct 17, 1998 at 02:05:42 (EDT)
From: Gail Email: None To: Mike Subject: Tucson Program Message: Do any of you remember the Tucson program. That was an emotional one for sure. Durga Ji started preaching about all the premies outside smoking while satsang was going on. She talked about smoking being pure ego. She was probably directing this stuff to MJ. Then there was his vulture satsang--The vultures are swooping in for the third time. You finally shed a tear. Then you notice someone's feet there. He just says, 'Let's go!' Let's go alright! Straight to your emotions and your bank account. They had to buy the Aston Martin that year. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Oct 17, 1998 at 15:54:33 (EDT)
From: Selene Email: None To: Gail Subject: Tucson Program Message: And how nice of them to save a few bucks and rent the convention center in July! Christ, I'll bet people were passing out it was most likely 110. We hosted some premies at our slum, and my extra jealous husband was so hung up on his extreme service working on the stage that our utility bill didn't get paid and we had no A/C for a few days. I got real sick. That was the mecca of security - they wouldn't let people out of the building at one point. I have a good story about breaking out of there but everyone has heard it. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Oct 17, 1998 at 16:36:13 (EDT)
From: Selene Email: None To: Selene Subject: Tucson Program - oops Message: I means EX husband!! Who needs air conditioning when God incarnate was visiting your community? And you 3 and 4 year old kids would just have to learn. Right? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Oct 17, 1998 at 22:55:58 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Selene Subject: It wasn't all bad Message: I remember ducking out from the hall at one point and finding a mexican food stand in the complex there. Had my first chimichanga which I liked quite a bit, I must admit. Thank you, Lord! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Oct 17, 1998 at 23:31:47 (EDT)
From: Selene Email: None To: Jim Subject: where did he stay? Message: Glad you like the food. It *is* good when it's good. Lots of carbs and calories though. Any idea where they parked his butt while he stayed here? I wasn't in with the in crowd, never was told even when I asked. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Oct 18, 1998 at 01:40:34 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Selene Subject: where did he stay? Message: I have no idea where the Lard stayed. But I do remember walking in my suit through the stifling heat to get to the hall. God, what a mindfuck that program was! He has us all spineless jello by the time he finished his thrills and chills vulture satsang. The mind, as they say, is a terrible thing to taste. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Oct 16, 1998 at 22:19:26 (EDT)
From: Helen Email: None To: Mike Subject: DC? Message: Arizona's probably a lot prettier! Helen Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Oct 19, 1998 at 12:32:43 (EDT)
From: Mike Email: None To: Helen Subject: AZ Rules! Message: Helen: I tend to agree with that sentiment.... he he he. I really love it here (and always have). It's a wonderful place. Normally, when you talk about it, people think of the desert (they probably should). But there is just about every environment available within a short drive: From lowland desert to the alpine forests and above treeline. Really nice. Oh yeah, according to some book I read years ago, Flagstaff had the last vestige of clean air in the US.... in 1956. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Oct 19, 1998 at 13:39:34 (EDT)
From: Helen Email: None To: Mike Subject: AZ Rules! Message: Are you into Barbara Kingsolver (the author)? I had that same idea (of AZ as desert) until I saw a documentary about Kingsolver and saw her land and the surrounding area. It was gorgeous. Her books have a definite sense of place (the Southwest) and have given me a new appreciation for that area. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Oct 19, 1998 at 15:04:52 (EDT)
From: Mike Email: None To: Helen Subject: AZ Rules! (off-topic) Message: Helen: No, I don't believe that I have read any of her stuff. Is it fiction or non-fiction? Most of my reading is of the non-fiction variety. I'm reading two books now, one by Dawkins and the other by Dennett. I guess one more, at the same time, wouldn't hurt.... he he he. - Yes, alot of people that have just been 'thru' arizona don't know the 'real' arizona. There are some places that I could take you that would likely bring tears to your eyes (they are THAT beautiful). My favorite haven, other than the Grand Canyon, is one such place. Just thinking about it makes my day (usually). It's full of old artifacts from civilizations that are no longer in existence. It is a gorgeous riparian environment that, due to its fragility, I don't anyone about (but I will show them). Yeah, ok, I'm a bit 'protective,' but that's me..... he he he ;-) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Oct 20, 1998 at 10:29:47 (EDT)
From: Selene Email: None To: Mike Subject: AZ Rules! (off-topic) Message: My favorite haven, other than the Grand Canyon, is one such place. Just thinking about it makes my day (usually). It's full of old artifacts from civilizations that are no longer in existence. It is a gorgeous riparian environment that, due to its fragility, I don't anyone about (but I will show them). Yeah, ok, I'm a bit 'protective,' but that's me..... he he he ;-) Mike, you must know a lot of Native American sites. my husband would freak! His favorite hobby - more like an obsession - is to visit them. There's quite a few around Tucson also. One of the prettiest I've been to is Montezuma's Well, even though it's 'discovered' it's so amazing to have all that water and huge tress in the middle of the desert. And all I want to do is run on the beach. sigh. Good thing we are compatible in other ways! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Oct 20, 1998 at 14:40:42 (EDT)
From: Helen Email: None To: Mike Subject: AZ Rules! (off-topic) Message: Riparian? Is that some kinda new weird religion or somethin'? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Oct 20, 1998 at 15:08:48 (EDT)
From: Selene Email: None To: Helen Subject: AZ Rules! (off-topic) Message: I *think* it means an area where water runs all year long, therefore enabling the growth of such unique things as trees and other plant life. Those areas make the desert bearable. Sorry, Mike I think you lke southern AZ more than me. The desert is beautiful in a minimalist sort of way, though. But I agree with Mike about Flagstaff, it's really nice. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Oct 20, 1998 at 17:05:13 (EDT)
From: Mike Email: None To: Selene & Helen Subject: AZ Rules! (off-topic) Message: Selene & Helen: Yes, that's what a riparian environment is. In this case, it's a canyon with a series of springs in it (not as rare as you might think). The springs flow all year and have created one beautiful place, that's for sure. I can understand why the sinagua settled there. I'm not sure why they left, though. The area didn't suffer any droughts that are known. It is possible that disease may have been the cause, but that's only a guess. - Actually, I love ALL of arizona. The variety is just what the doctor ordered for me. I do have a particular attachment to the desert, though. I'm not sure why, but I sure do like it. Must be that native-american blood stirring again. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Oct 15, 1998 at 18:48:57 (EDT)
From: JW Email: None To: Helen Clark Subject: That Reminds Me Message: Well, the LOTU video might be a good way to start. It's a pretty good run-down and what happened and has Rennie Davis throughout, who was probably the most famous premie ever, as well as Abbie Hoffman, who says some really funny stuff about both Maharaji and Rennie. Plus, it includes the whole Pat Haley issue again, and shows M getting hit in the face with a pie, as well as avoiding all questions at that 'press conference' he did in Houston. Plus, it might work just to let reporters or writers know that Millennium happened 25 years ago in November, and about the 15-year-old perfect master and that there is this website to find out more. That might be enough. If they are old enough, they will remember. I'd be happy to talk to anyone you like. My e-mail address is joger02@aol.com. Maybe the Houston papers would be good places to approach as well. Anybody else have any ideas? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Oct 15, 1998 at 20:55:58 (EDT)
From: Helen Email: None To: JW Subject: That Reminds Me Message: I'm thinking specifically of a Washington Post reporter named Peter Carlson who goes to the Unitarian church I used to go to. This would be right up his alley. He's written about UFO conferences, all kinds of 'paranormal' stuff and has a real clever, dry wit. I will definitely contact him. Thanks Helen Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Oct 15, 1998 at 20:36:29 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: JW Subject: Yup Message: Joe, Leslie Berenstein from People emailed each other last week. I contacted her to ask what was happening with the possible article and to adivse her about some recent developments (like the premie page, like JM's page). She said she'd take it all to her editors and get back to me. I'll email her again if I haven't heard anything further by Monday. In His Service, Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Oct 15, 1998 at 12:38:11 (EDT)
From: JW Email: None To: Everyone Subject: To Jim, Etc., Kurt Andersen Message: As you know, Kurt Anderson was the writer at The New Yorker who wrote that article about Maharaji and the cult that never got published. He interviewed a bunch of ex-premies, including me and Jim, but for some reason it was never published. I just read that Kurt left The New Yorker to be come the editor at 'New York Magazine,' one of those super-yuppie city magazines that has articles on where to vacation in the Hamptons and which restaurant has the best wine list. The articleI read had to do with the fact that New York City is over 40% minority, but New York Magazine has not one female, nor even one caucasion, on it's editorial staff. Anyhow, think maybe Kurt might publish something in his new magazine, maybe in between the ads for Dom Perignon, Cartier and the new Cadillac SUV? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Oct 15, 1998 at 12:39:55 (EDT)
From: JW Email: None To: JW Subject: To Jim, Etc., Kurt Andersen Message: Sorry, that should have said that New York Magazine has not even one non-caucasion on its editorial staff. Sorry. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Oct 15, 1998 at 15:16:41 (EDT)
From: Paul Email: None To: JW Subject: To Jim, Etc., Kurt Andersen Message: JW: Do you know that Kurt's brother David,and sister-in-law are premies, live in Malibu, and are close to M. David, a remarkably talented musician, sings at the programs, and his wife was the tutor to M's kids. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Oct 15, 1998 at 15:34:44 (EDT)
From: JW Email: None To: Paul Subject: To Jim, Etc., Kurt Andersen Message: Paul, Kurt's New Yorker article was supposedly to be about his relationship with his sister and brother, both of whom were/are premies, and how it changed over the years. I think his thesis was that they were in a rabid cult until the ashrams closed and then he 'got them back,' or something like that. I knew both David and his sister Erika, although not well. Actually, Kurt said Erica lives in upstate New York, is married, and does some kind of corporate motivational courses. Kurt did say that David was still into music in the LA area. He didn't mention his wife's connection to Maharaji's kids. I guess both of them are still tacitly premies, and I think Kurt intended to display all the cult-like aspects of Maharaji over the years, [He thought both his brother and sister were kind of nuts for believing the astrodome was going to take off, and such, and he hated being prosylatized by them], but that they kind of came out the other side, and were now in a sort of meditation-religion that Maharaji runs these days. I know he was going to write about the more bizarre aspects of the cult, because I told him a bunch of stuff from my own experience and his fact-checker contacted me to verify certain things they intended to include. But I think the Monica Lewinsky disclosures happened and the New Yorker had other things to publish, like their expose on Linda Tripp, so the article never appeared. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Oct 16, 1998 at 11:46:59 (EDT)
From: Paul Email: None To: JW Subject: To Jim, Etc., Kurt Andersen Message: JW Thanks for the info from Kurt. Regarding David and his wife Susan (I attended their wedding), I would say that they are a lot more than tacit premies, although I'm sure that they are quite suble when dealing with non-premies or relatives, i.e. when I asked Susan, about 1-2 years ago who did she think M was, her reply was something like 'someone very important in my life.' Paul Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Oct 16, 1998 at 19:38:29 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Paul Subject: To Jim, Etc., Kurt Andersen Message: David, a remarkably talented musician, sings at the programs, I only remember his 'Please let me give me heart to you' which was ... pretty damned emotional. Frankly, the guy made we wince, even then. You're not a Michael Bolton fan by chance, are you Paul? (P.S. He was a premie too!) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Oct 17, 1998 at 01:58:19 (EDT)
From: Gail Email: None To: Jim Subject: Is M. Bolton really a PWK? nt Message: nt Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Oct 18, 1998 at 16:13:47 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Gail Subject: Is M. Bolton really a PWK? nt Message: Yeah, apparently he honed his histrionics in the living room of some east coast satsang hall. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Oct 19, 1998 at 04:37:05 (EDT)
From: bb Email: None To: Jim Subject: Is M. Bolton really a PWK? nt Message: He was as loud as he is now. He is new age at this point. What does the nt stand for? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Oct 19, 1998 at 10:41:20 (EDT)
From: Jerry Email: None To: bb Subject: Is M. Bolton really a PWK? nt Message: 'nt' stands for no text. I think Michael Bolton sucks. A more phony boloney entertainer I've never seen. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Oct 19, 1998 at 09:54:37 (EDT)
From: Paul Email: None To: Jim Subject: To Jim, Etc., Kurt Andersen Message: No , I despise Bolton. David was/is a great blues and rock and roll performer, equally adept as a drummer or at lead guitar. Unfortunately, programs call for sappy ,devotional wailing. It's possible that all these years of devotion have damaged him and blunted the edginess that was once there. Paul Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Oct 15, 1998 at 00:10:12 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Everyone Subject: The Perfect Religion Message: I've been thinking. Religion, in its most extreme form, involves thinking god is everywhere, all ways, all times. He's permeating the whole show, inescapable, omni/omni/omni. That was the vision we cultivated in the early 70s. Maharaji pretended to live in that state as did his family and some of the mahatmas. Then there's religion at the level of a good, common Christian, say. God's there, doing his thing, but he's not about to intervene and deprive one of one's own 'enjoyment' tussling with nature or fate. He's there to be thanked by the wise for what good transpires, questioned and blamed by the crestfallen when it doesn't and simply acknowledged at least once a week by everyone with any common decency. After all, we didn't make the world ourselves, did we? Let's not forget. So what's the best combination? The first attitude allows for the warmest, fuzziest feeling but it's also the most debilitating in terms of actually functioning in the world. The second attitude, taken to ITS extreme leaves one so independent there might as well not be any god after all. The premies, I think, are struggling, as are all religious communities with that very issue. They (we) tried the all-consuming fire of devotion. Good for a few heated evenings of satsang, good, for example, for triggering the autopsychosis of a Brian McDermott or the fainting spells at late 70s darshan lines. But shitty for making a go of it in the real world (I can use that word, I'm not a premie!) and shitty for getting laid (which is, in the end, what it's ALL about, don't kid yourself.) We also tried complete indifference, hands off honesty and rationality. First in one rapid thaw in late 75, early 76, then again in the early 80s. Maharaji's there but I got do my thing, you know? Now, as premies seem to have secured some steady footing in the world -- or conversely realize that what hasn't happened for them yet probably never will -- they seem to be warming up to the more devotional love buzz of a truly involved creator. They're showing each other that they still have the ability to talk as if their minds are completely transfixed, they can still pretend to be beyond doubt and question. Maybe, just maybe, they might get some of that cosmic epiphany thing happening again. All they gotta do, they think, is keep telling themselves how fortunate they are to be so grateful and in love of peace within inside the master loves nothink I'm a success so look at me, briefly I say, I'm putting on my slippers and starting to get humble. Liek Maharaji, the premies are searching for the perfect religion. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Oct 15, 1998 at 00:19:28 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Jim Subject: an example on the left Message: From today's collection of premie-admired Wit and Wisdom comes an example I've often referred to here, R. D. Laing. This is the kind of thinking we indulged in in the early seventies. Is it any wonder how consumed we were in the whole thing?: 'Pedro Abraham Buenos Aires, Argentina The Politics of Experience by R.D. Laing 'We live in a secular world. To adapt to this world the child abdicates its esctasy. Having lost our experience of the spirit, we are expected to have faith. But this faith comes to be a belief in a reality which is not evident. There is a prophecy in Amos that a time will come when there will be 'a famine in the land, not a famine for bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the Lord.' That time has now come to pass. It is the present age.' - The Politics of Experience by R.D. Laing,1967' Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Oct 15, 1998 at 10:02:36 (EDT)
From: Runamok Email: None To: Jim Subject: Bang Laing Message: I disagree with some of your assumptions about belief but... although obviously there's some truth to your points. Laing was also supposed to have been the original $$$ for Ragneesh. Interestingly, they both died at an early age (meaning under-average) of heart-related problems within a few months of each other. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Oct 15, 1998 at 14:20:08 (EDT)
From: VP Email: None To: Jim Subject: an example on the left Message: To adapt to this world the child abdicates its esctasy Then there's MY little son. We were looking at the frost on the grass this morning and I said (in the childish spirit of fun and make-believe), 'Look, Jack Frost came last night and painted all the blades of grass.' To which my son replies, 'Not really. It's just cold out there and the water on the grass froze.' Jim, the two of you would get along really well. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Oct 15, 1998 at 17:39:03 (EDT)
From: Helen Email: None To: VP Subject: an example on the left Message: HA! Guess your kid busted you! Helen Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Oct 15, 1998 at 21:26:27 (EDT)
From: VP Email: None To: Helen Subject: imaginary friends-off topic Message: Shame on you. Don't you believe in Jack Frost, fairies-including the tooth fairy- elves, Santa Claus, Superman, Peter Pan, mermaids, etc?? I do. ;) It was really funny. I felt very foolish being dissed by this little person. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Oct 15, 1998 at 22:02:11 (EDT)
From: Helen Email: None To: VP Subject: imaginary friends-off topic Message: Last year, I picked up my daughter at school one afternoon and she told me she & her freinds had seen a lephrecan in a cement aquaduct near the playground. She described it so clearly, with such detail, how the leprecan was really scared and was shaking, and exactly what he was wearing. My heart was pounding because I wondered if they really had seen something!. Later on that night she confessed that she made it up.Gullible? Not me! Part of the fun of having a kid! SOunds like you have a little scientist on your hands, no?How old is your kid? Helen Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Oct 16, 1998 at 21:12:52 (EDT)
From: VP Email: None To: Helen Subject: small scientist-off topic Message: Five, and yes-a scientist. Makes me proud. So far he has already exploded a volcano in the house to watch energy, studied the surface tension of water, demonstrated how heat has energy (hot water will mix food coloring dropped into it--cold water won't) made rain on the stove, collected and measured rainfall outside, etc. etc. I should have known better than to try to pull that Jack Frost thing on him. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Oct 16, 1998 at 21:56:44 (EDT)
From: Helen Email: None To: VP Subject: small scientist-off topic Message: Five is a great age. Watch out for 6! Just keep him REALLY BUSY because 6 is a bit of a roller coaster. Helen Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Oct 15, 1998 at 17:54:06 (EDT)
From: Helen Email: None To: Jim Subject: The Perfect Religion Message: Hey Jim, 'Briefly I say, I'm putting on my slippers' Is that from the Old or New Testament?? (; Jim, some people hold their religion to be very dear, and it gives them a lot of strength. The second choice, that of independence and belief is not such a bad choice....Since you're an atheist, dude, it's probably hard for you to understand how it could give someone's life a whole lot of meaning. Some people just believe and they are not really sure why. I know you're an atheist. SOme of my best friends are atheists, really! Really! (; Just messin with ya, Go verily unto thy slippers, in thy hole-ey bathrobe, and partake of thy John CLeese and Dawkins unto the Faulty Towers of Babel. By the way I think John Cleese is great. Helen Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Oct 15, 1998 at 23:13:11 (EDT)
From: Diz Email: None To: Jim Subject: Devotion not sexy! Message: Oh come on Jim! There were premies who found those super-devotional guys SO sexy! I've seen many a premie brother pull the gals into bed with their wonderful premie carisma! Don't tell me it didn't work for you, Jim, I'll be so disillusioned. Diz Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Oct 16, 1998 at 11:34:39 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Diz Subject: Devotion not sexy! Message: Diz, I'm rusihing. But it didn't, I didn't ... no, I'm not the least offended, don't worry. Later, Jim Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Oct 15, 1998 at 23:34:20 (EDT)
From: Diz Email: None To: Jim Subject: JIM, READ THIS FIRST Message: Hey Jim I just read your reply to me and others about your friend who commmited suicide in the ashram. I don't really know what to say. I feel like I wasn't particularly sensitive to what you've been feeling about losing him in my response back there. I gather that thread has brought him and what happened back with a vengence for you. I can't really imagine what that must be like. No wonder you're pretty keen on pointing out the dangers of MJ's trip! The other post I made to the post starting this thread was done as a joke. It's teasing you about sex and the ashram. I've just realised that this might be more of a serious subject to you than I was aware. If so, I'm sorry. Hey, I'm still subject to post-ashram horniness. It has its advantages. I can't believe, now, that I survived all those years in my twenties with no sex (well, almost none.... let's say, no GOOD sex). There's a whole topic here. What a time to expect people to be happily celebate! Take care, Jim. Hope some of this makes sense. Love, Diz Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Oct 14, 1998 at 23:59:30 (EDT)
From: JW Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Cleese and Dawkins 'Event' Message: So, all you Richard Dawkins and John Cleese fans, the two of them are appearing, together, in San Francisco on November 18. The event is part of the Art & Politics Series. The event it entitled: 'John Cleese and Richard Dawkins in an Uncommon Conversation.' I have tickets because I'm a member, but I'd be happy to get tickets for anyone who'd like to drop into San Francisco for this event. Just let me know. Doesn't it sound like a great show? And I'm just finishing The Blind Watchmaker, so I'm all ready. Beats the crap out of a 'video event' or a 'program' don't you think? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Oct 15, 1998 at 00:12:37 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: JW Subject: Cleese and Dawkins 'Event' Message: Joe, What'd you think of the book? Did you see the piece on the net yesterday (CNN maybe?) talking about how bats' echolocation just blows away anything we've developed so far? Reminded me of the book, of course. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Oct 15, 1998 at 13:09:29 (EDT)
From: JW Email: None To: Jim Subject: Cleese and Dawkins 'Event' Message: I like the book, but I'm not quite finished. A bit scientific for me in some cases, but I think I'm learning from it. I didn't see the CNN piece, but it sounds right in line with Dawkins. Jim, does the Cleese/Dawkins program sound strange to you? At first I thought it was joke, but then I thought it sounded like a great program. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Oct 15, 1998 at 14:02:18 (EDT)
From: Sir D Email: David.Studio57@btinternet.com To: JW Subject: Cleese and Dawkins 'Event' Message: If I may interject here; John Cleese has derided established religion quite a bit, particularly in the film, 'Life of Brian'. He may be atheist of agnostic, I don't know and his politics are in the centre (he has made many political broadcasts for our Liberal Democratic Party). You didn't say in what form this converstion is to take place but I could imagine a kind of theatrical comedy conversation with John's wacky sense of humour asking lots of silly questions and pretending not to understand. Or perhaps parodying a religious person. Who knows. Since my matter transfer machine isn't working at the moment, I won't be able to beam over to see this event so please let us know how it goes. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Oct 14, 1998 at 23:13:57 (EDT)
From: Gail Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Censorship Message: I was talking to a fellow this evening. I guess he can't discuss MJ, cult activities and new videos with me anymore. He has been commissioned to silence by London's community co-ordinator. She says I'm really anti-MJ now. I guess MJ's truth doesn't hold up very well. They are afraid of chinks in their armour. As RT said, 'We gotta edit out those ex-premies.' After all, the premies are only 'Protecting their dearest friend.' Jeez, you'd think the Lord of the Universe could take care of himself. He certainly does in every other way. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Oct 14, 1998 at 23:54:00 (EDT)
From: Sir D Email: David.Studio57@btinternet.com To: Gail Subject: Censorship Message: Mmmm, interesting. So premies are taking vows of silence now. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Oct 15, 1998 at 10:43:45 (EDT)
From: Mike Email: None To: Sir D Subject: Censorship Message: Sir & Gail: My thoughts exactly. Since when can a mere 'meditation teacher' or his representative 'commission' someone to silence? Sounds like it's LOTU time, again! Can't the lord make up his mind on how he wants his 'dear' premies to relate to him? Jeez, M (and his minions) is fickle people! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Oct 16, 1998 at 18:31:26 (EDT)
From: CD Email: None To: Sir D Subject: Censorship Message: Gail has bragged about pestering admin people at the place where video events are held. Fine, Gail doesn't like the videos or want to attend. But it sounds as if she has made herself a bit of a nuisance. Some people may just not be interested in implicitly supporting her crusade. CD Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Oct 16, 1998 at 18:41:00 (EDT)
From: Mike Email: None To: CD Subject: What if... Message: CD: What if you were given a commission, by someone in the hierarchy, to shut YOUR mouth. Would you do it? I think THAT is the central point here, not whether gail is a pest at events. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Oct 16, 1998 at 19:43:31 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Mike Subject: Don't bother Message: Mike, There is no point trying to engage Chris in a discussion. He's not capable or willing to bakc up anything he says. Unlike Gail, who has the integrity to stand by her position, Chris is a worm. Good for a cheap shot. Nuisance value only. See, you're not a premie. You're an un-premie. Therefore he is completely afraid to open his mind to you which is, after all, the essence of discussion. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Oct 16, 1998 at 19:58:37 (EDT)
From: Mike Email: None To: Jim Subject: Don't bother Message: Jim: Got it! Thanks Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Oct 17, 1998 at 01:45:00 (EDT)
From: Gail Email: None To: CD Subject: What are you talking about CD Message: Gail has bragged about pestering admin people at the place where video events are held. Fine, Gail doesn't like the videos or want to attend. But it sounds as if she has made herself a bit of a nuisance. Dear CD: I have never been back to a video or even seen most premies since I left. I said that I might go, but I never have. How have I made a nuisance of myself? Do you actually read the posts or do you take after your master--making things up as you go along. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Oct 17, 1998 at 02:09:32 (EDT)
From: Gail Email: None To: CD Subject: PS to CD Message: The community contact person for London, Ontario is worried that I might put stuff like this on the net. She doesn't want me to hear of any new cult activities or satsang's of MJ so I can't post them here. I HAVE NOT BEEN A THREAT TO THEM LOCALLY. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Oct 15, 1998 at 14:27:26 (EDT)
From: VP Email: None To: Gail Subject: Anybody out there.... Message: ...still think this cult isn't a weird scene? Sheesh! Even Mickey the P is allowed to speak with atheists :) Gail, I'm sorry your friend doesn't have a mind (will) of his own anymore. At least you do. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Oct 15, 1998 at 15:53:38 (EDT)
From: JW Email: None To: Gail Subject: Censorship Message: He has been commissioned to silence by London's community co-ordinator. She says I'm really anti-MJ now. Gail, I'm curious. How explicit was this? Did this guy say he would like to talk to you but can't because he was ordered by the community coordinator not to? This reflects extreme paranoia if you ask me. I guess they are afraid of you now. I wonder if you showed up at some video event if they would make you leave because they would consider you a spy who might be watching a video to get incriminating information or something. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Oct 15, 1998 at 16:12:04 (EDT)
From: Mc Email: e_mc_42@hotmail.com To: Gail Subject: Censorship Message: Gail, shame on you - you've been banned! Oh, what the heck, go to a video event anyway and bring popcorn (at least there'll be something to enjoy). Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Oct 15, 1998 at 22:36:33 (EDT)
From: Gail Email: None To: JW Subject: Censorship Message: Yup! I think so. I should try it some night and find out. It might not be worth the trouble, however. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Oct 14, 1998 at 11:48:35 (EDT)
From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Nice new stuff/ignoramus Message: For those who still don't understand much about the Kabir, Nanak, Sikh, Radhasoami & Sant Mat lineage read what I've just found at The Chaplains have got it together! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Oct 14, 1998 at 16:03:54 (EDT)
From: Gail Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: Nice investigative work, JM! Message: Did you e-mail these folks at the US defense about your site and this one? I tried here at school, but I can't. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Oct 14, 1998 at 17:04:57 (EDT)
From: Mike Email: None To: Gail Subject: They know... Message: Gail: Military chaplains are taught to be as open-minded as possible about people's beliefs. They often have to perform rituals for a religion that is not their own. For example: a catholic chaplain may be asked to perform a protestant service. This is the norm for chaplains that are in isolated duty assignments or ships. The purpose of the 'manual' that you see in the link is to inform chaplains of any special requirements for a religion that they may not be totally aware of and other situations where they may not be permitted (by the religion) to perform a certain set of ceremonies. For example: I don't believe that a catholic priest can perform mormon temple ceremonies. But rest assured, just as Mickey the P knows a cult when he sees one, they do too..... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Oct 14, 1998 at 22:59:40 (EDT)
From: RT Email: mmmm To: Jean-Michel Subject: Nice new stuff! Message: In the Name of the Further, the Fun, and the Holi Espirit, Ah-choo! God Bless You, J-M. Thanks be to Internet. RT Return to Index -:- Top of Index |