Ex-Premie.Org |
Forum III Archive # 28 | |
From: Oct 30, 1998 |
To: Nov 18, 1998 |
Page: 4 Of: 5 |
VP -:- Be Here Now -:- Wed, Nov 04, 1998 at 13:14:16 (EST) __Mickey the Pharisee -:- Be Here Now -:- Wed, Nov 04, 1998 at 15:48:19 (EST) ____Mickey the Pharisee -:- Correction -:- Wed, Nov 04, 1998 at 15:49:51 (EST) ______VP -:- Correction -:- Wed, Nov 04, 1998 at 22:02:44 (EST) ________Mickey the Pharisee -:- Correction -:- Wed, Nov 04, 1998 at 22:29:58 (EST) __________Joy -:- Correction -:- Wed, Nov 04, 1998 at 23:24:40 (EST) __________eb -:- Correction -:- Thurs, Nov 05, 1998 at 11:40:17 (EST) __________VP -:- 30 degrees -:- Thurs, Nov 05, 1998 at 14:07:29 (EST) ____________Sam C. -:- 30 degrees -:- Thurs, Nov 05, 1998 at 21:19:46 (EST) __________Robyn -:- Correction -:- Fri, Nov 06, 1998 at 17:39:29 (EST) ________Sam C. -:- Correction -:- Thurs, Nov 05, 1998 at 21:05:36 (EST) __Katie -:- Be Here Now -:- Wed, Nov 04, 1998 at 17:40:19 (EST) ____VP -:- Guru bs from BHN -:- Wed, Nov 04, 1998 at 21:55:21 (EST) ______Sam C. -:- Guru bs from BHN -:- Fri, Nov 06, 1998 at 00:30:09 (EST) __Helen -:- Be Here Now -:- Wed, Nov 04, 1998 at 17:59:40 (EST) ____jethro -:- Be Here Now -:- Thurs, Nov 05, 1998 at 02:03:20 (EST) __Laura -:- Be Here Now -:- Wed, Nov 04, 1998 at 18:02:13 (EST) ____VP -:- Be Here Now -:- Wed, Nov 04, 1998 at 22:36:26 (EST) __eb -:- Be Here Now -:- Wed, Nov 04, 1998 at 18:25:05 (EST) ____VP -:- windowpane? -:- Wed, Nov 04, 1998 at 21:38:41 (EST) ______Mickey the Pharisee -:- windowpane? -:- Wed, Nov 04, 1998 at 22:11:54 (EST) ________Helen -:- windowpane? -:- Fri, Nov 06, 1998 at 13:07:37 (EST) __________VP -:- windowpane? -:- Sat, Nov 07, 1998 at 07:57:59 (EST) ____________Helen -:- windowpane? -:- Sat, Nov 07, 1998 at 12:31:30 (EST) ______________Bobby -:- windowpane? -:- Sat, Nov 07, 1998 at 14:11:56 (EST) ________________VP -:- windowpane? -:- Sun, Nov 08, 1998 at 21:04:05 (EST) ________________Helen -:- madness & art -:- Mon, Nov 09, 1998 at 21:55:21 (EST) __Jerry -:- Be Here Now -:- Thurs, Nov 05, 1998 at 10:56:39 (EST) ____Gerry -:- More Premie Classics -:- Thurs, Nov 05, 1998 at 11:09:30 (EST) ______Mike -:- Even More Premie Classics -:- Thurs, Nov 05, 1998 at 14:22:35 (EST) ________Gerry -:- Even More Premie Classics -:- Thurs, Nov 05, 1998 at 14:25:20 (EST) ________VP -:- Even More Premie Classics -:- Thurs, Nov 05, 1998 at 14:27:51 (EST) __________Mike -:- Even More Premie Classics -:- Thurs, Nov 05, 1998 at 14:43:17 (EST) __________Gerry -:- Even More Premie Classics -:- Thurs, Nov 05, 1998 at 14:49:57 (EST) ____________Katie -:- Even More Premie Classics -not -:- Thurs, Nov 05, 1998 at 16:42:49 (EST) ______________Mike -:- Ahhh, but they explain... -:- Thurs, Nov 05, 1998 at 17:44:26 (EST) ________________Katie -:- Ahhh, but they explain... -:- Thurs, Nov 05, 1998 at 18:00:46 (EST) ______________Jim -:- Supposedly there's no Santa -:- Thurs, Nov 05, 1998 at 21:59:10 (EST) ________________VP -:- Supposedly there's no Santa -:- Sat, Nov 07, 1998 at 08:02:56 (EST) __________________Katie -:- Little Prince -:- Sat, Nov 07, 1998 at 14:11:44 (EST) ____________________Jim -:- Little Prince -:- Sat, Nov 07, 1998 at 18:13:38 (EST) ______________Carol -:- Another...and HI!!! -:- Sat, Nov 07, 1998 at 22:59:01 (EST) ______Helen -:- More Premie Classics -:- Fri, Nov 06, 1998 at 13:11:42 (EST) ________Jim -:- More Premie Classics -:- Fri, Nov 06, 1998 at 23:40:21 (EST) __________Helen -:- More Premie Classics -:- Sat, Nov 07, 1998 at 12:43:04 (EST) ________DV the Brave -:- More Premie Classics -:- Sat, Nov 07, 1998 at 13:09:00 (EST) __________Helen -:- More Premie Classics -:- Mon, Nov 09, 1998 at 21:58:41 (EST) ____VP -:- Be Here Now -:- Thurs, Nov 05, 1998 at 14:24:53 (EST) ______Jerry -:- Be Here Now -:- Thurs, Nov 05, 1998 at 15:55:33 (EST) __Bobby -:- Be Here Now -:- Thurs, Nov 05, 1998 at 18:33:06 (EST) ____VP -:- Bobby and Baba Ram Dass -:- Thurs, Nov 05, 1998 at 20:43:24 (EST) ______Bobby -:- more on Ram Dass -:- Thurs, Nov 05, 1998 at 21:27:51 (EST) ______Jim -:- Ram Dass was as lost as anyone -:- Fri, Nov 06, 1998 at 21:44:44 (EST) __Bobby -:- Psychedelic Classics -:- Thurs, Nov 05, 1998 at 19:01:15 (EST) ____VP -:- Psychedelic Classics -:- Thurs, Nov 05, 1998 at 20:49:09 (EST) ______Jerry -:- Psychedelic Classics -:- Fri, Nov 06, 1998 at 11:24:40 (EST) ________Mickey the Pharisee -:- Psychedelic Classics -:- Fri, Nov 06, 1998 at 11:41:29 (EST) __________Selene -:- Psychedelic Classics -:- Fri, Nov 06, 1998 at 11:45:46 (EST) ____________Mickey the Pharisee -:- Psychedelic Classics -:- Fri, Nov 06, 1998 at 11:54:35 (EST) ______________Gerry -:- Psychedelic Classics -:- Fri, Nov 06, 1998 at 12:06:03 (EST) ________________Jerry -:- Psychedelic Classics -:- Fri, Nov 06, 1998 at 16:36:34 (EST) __________________Katie -:- Psychedelic Classics -:- Fri, Nov 06, 1998 at 17:57:04 (EST) ____________________Jerry -:- Psychedelic Classics -:- Fri, Nov 06, 1998 at 19:46:25 (EST) ______________________VP -:- Psychedelic Classics -:- Sat, Nov 07, 1998 at 08:05:47 (EST) ________________________Jerry -:- Psychedelic Classics -:- Sat, Nov 07, 1998 at 09:43:30 (EST) ______________________Katie -:- Psychedelic Classics -:- Sat, Nov 07, 1998 at 14:16:49 (EST) ________________RT -:- why we left -:- Sat, Nov 07, 1998 at 11:28:38 (EST) ________________Bobby -:- Psychedelic Classics -:- Sat, Nov 07, 1998 at 11:48:52 (EST) ________________Bobby -:- Psychedelic Classics -:- Sat, Nov 07, 1998 at 12:11:38 (EST) ______________Selene -:- Psychedelic Classics -:- Fri, Nov 06, 1998 at 12:12:13 (EST) ______________eb -:- Psychedelic Classics -:- Fri, Nov 06, 1998 at 15:07:12 (EST) ________________Jerry -:- Psychedelic Classics -:- Fri, Nov 06, 1998 at 16:45:32 (EST) ________________Katie -:- Psychedelic Classics -:- Fri, Nov 06, 1998 at 17:49:36 (EST) __Runamok -:- Be Here Now -:- Thurs, Nov 05, 1998 at 21:09:01 (EST) ____VP -:- Chill out, Run -:- Thurs, Nov 05, 1998 at 21:36:33 (EST) ______VP -:- correction -:- Thurs, Nov 05, 1998 at 21:40:37 (EST) ______Runamok -:- No thanks -:- Sun, Nov 08, 1998 at 00:16:35 (EST) ____Katie -:- to Runamok -:- Thurs, Nov 05, 1998 at 22:21:30 (EST) ______Katie -:- to Runamok - P.S. -:- Thurs, Nov 05, 1998 at 22:23:15 (EST) __VP -:- Be Here Now -:- Fri, Nov 06, 1998 at 22:44:40 (EST) ____CD_BROWSER -:- ERROR..ERROR..ERROR... -:- Fri, Nov 06, 1998 at 23:00:14 (EST) __CD -:- Be Here Now -:- Fri, Nov 06, 1998 at 22:50:29 (EST) ____VP -:- Rich in Love -:- Sat, Nov 07, 1998 at 07:42:01 (EST) ______Jim -:- Don't ask CD that -:- Sat, Nov 07, 1998 at 17:18:19 (EST) ________CD -:- Don't ask CD that -:- Sun, Nov 08, 1998 at 21:39:56 (EST) __________VP -:- Last post was from VP, not CD -:- Sun, Nov 08, 1998 at 22:02:34 (EST) Gerry -:- Flowers in my hair... -:- Tues, Nov 03, 1998 at 20:22:10 (EST) __Mickey the Pharisee -:- Hey!!!! -:- Wed, Nov 04, 1998 at 19:25:56 (EST) ____Gerry -:- Oh!!!! -:- Wed, Nov 04, 1998 at 20:09:49 (EST) Jim -:- Premie Poetry Book -:- Tues, Nov 03, 1998 at 19:12:55 (EST) __Jim -:- commentary -:- Tues, Nov 03, 1998 at 19:18:32 (EST) ____Larkin -:- release the bats!!! -:- Tues, Nov 03, 1998 at 21:31:31 (EST) ______larkin -:- release the bats!!! -:- Tues, Nov 03, 1998 at 22:43:13 (EST) ________Jim -:- release the bats!!! -:- Wed, Nov 04, 1998 at 02:04:44 (EST) ________Mike -:- WONDERFUL! LOL LOL (nt) -:- Wed, Nov 04, 1998 at 09:56:08 (EST) ________Mc -:- BRAVO, larkin, BRAVO!!! (nt) -:- Wed, Nov 04, 1998 at 11:23:46 (EST) ________eb -:- release the bats!!! -:- Wed, Nov 04, 1998 at 12:08:22 (EST) ____JW -:- commentary -:- Wed, Nov 04, 1998 at 15:07:40 (EST) Jim -:- This is your mind... -:- Tues, Nov 03, 1998 at 19:06:54 (EST) __Helen -:- This is your mind... -:- Tues, Nov 03, 1998 at 22:58:05 (EST) ____VP -:- This is your life... -:- Wed, Nov 04, 1998 at 13:56:16 (EST) ______Helen -:- This is your life... -:- Wed, Nov 04, 1998 at 17:55:37 (EST) __JW -:- This is your mind... -:- Wed, Nov 04, 1998 at 15:20:10 (EST) ____Joy -:- Joan Apter -:- Wed, Nov 04, 1998 at 15:35:22 (EST) ______JW -:- Food Trips -:- Wed, Nov 04, 1998 at 17:57:56 (EST) ________Joy -:- Food Trips -:- Wed, Nov 04, 1998 at 19:46:46 (EST) ____Helen -:- This is your mind... -:- Wed, Nov 04, 1998 at 17:16:06 (EST) ____Jim -:- I never like the bitch myself -:- Wed, Nov 04, 1998 at 20:01:33 (EST) ______Joy -:- Say Something Nice, Jim -:- Wed, Nov 04, 1998 at 20:58:17 (EST) ________Jim -:- Say Something Nice, Jim -:- Wed, Nov 04, 1998 at 21:22:08 (EST) __________Gerry -:- Say Something Nice, Jim -:- Wed, Nov 04, 1998 at 21:31:33 (EST) ____________Gail -:- None of the ex-instructors -:- Wed, Nov 04, 1998 at 22:34:09 (EST) ______JW -:- Eurotrash Initiator -:- Wed, Nov 04, 1998 at 22:34:56 (EST) ________Joy -:- Eurotrash Initiator -:- Wed, Nov 04, 1998 at 23:44:38 (EST) __________JW -:- Eurotrash Initiator -:- Wed, Nov 04, 1998 at 23:54:35 (EST) ____________Jim -:- Eurotrash Initiator -:- Thurs, Nov 05, 1998 at 00:50:16 (EST) __________jethro -:- Eurotrash Initiator -:- Thurs, Nov 05, 1998 at 01:44:42 (EST) ________eb -:- My Favorite Initiator -:- Thurs, Nov 05, 1998 at 11:54:16 (EST) ______Jerry -:- Neither did my friend -:- Thurs, Nov 05, 1998 at 11:15:35 (EST) ________Gerry -:- Your friend was smart -:- Thurs, Nov 05, 1998 at 11:32:33 (EST) Jim -:- Think of the money!!! -:- Mon, Nov 02, 1998 at 10:59:28 (EST) __Jean-Michel -:- Think of the money!!! -:- Mon, Nov 02, 1998 at 12:29:40 (EST) ____Laura -:- Think of the money!!! -:- Mon, Nov 02, 1998 at 22:58:20 (EST) ______Gerry -:- Think of the money!!! -:- Mon, Nov 02, 1998 at 23:02:10 (EST) ______Laura -:- Think of the money!!! -:- Wed, Nov 04, 1998 at 17:51:15 (EST) |
Date: Wed, Nov 04, 1998 at 13:14:16 (EST)
From: VP Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Be Here Now Message: Katie was kind enough to send me the book Be Here Now and I have been having the best time reading it. It's hilarious! The idea of enlightenment is so full of contradictions. Does anyone know what ever happened to Richard Alpert (besides getting kicked out of Harvard, turning on and dropping out?) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Nov 04, 1998 at 15:48:19 (EST)
From: Mickey the Pharisee Email: None To: VP Subject: Be Here Now Message: Richard Alpert had a stroke several years ago and has been in physical therapy for a while. I know that he was unable to speak for a while after the stroke, but I think that he has now recovered the ability to speak although his language is slurred. I believe that he lives somewhere in Northern California. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Nov 04, 1998 at 15:49:51 (EST)
From: Mickey the Pharisee Email: None To: VP Subject: Correction Message: Make that 'his speech is slurred,' not 'his language is slurred.' Sheesh, five days in Central America and I can no longer speak English!! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Nov 04, 1998 at 22:02:44 (EST)
From: VP Email: None To: Mickey the Pharisee Subject: Correction Message: Thanks, Mickey. Good to have you back. Thanks for the info on the author. I'm sorry to hear that he had a stroke. Here's a BHN quote just to welcome you back to the USA. It's a Purification exercise with Guru Rimpoche: Consider a being of pure light and love (whom you can name Padmasambhava, the Lotus-evolved One, if you would like), who is sitting in the midst of a lake on a lotus flower in front of you. He is seen as being in front of you and slightly above you...so that you look up to him at about a thirty degree angle. he will come into your heart when you have sufficiently purified yourself. Those must have been some mighty good mushrooms... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Nov 04, 1998 at 22:29:58 (EST)
From: Mickey the Pharisee Email: None To: VP Subject: Correction Message: 'Consider a being of pure light and love (whom you can name Padmasambhava, the Lotus-evolved One, if you would like),' Actually, I would like to name him 'little-charlie-love-light-fella-sitting-on-a-lotus-at-a-thirty-degree-angle-and-I-see-him-just-after-I've-dropped-some-windowpane.' If that's alright with you, Ram Dass, sir. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Nov 04, 1998 at 23:24:40 (EST)
From: Joy Email: None To: Mickey the Pharisee Subject: Correction Message: Actually, that's a standard Tibetan Buddhist practice, lifted straight from the texts. It gets MUCH more elaborate than that, that's just the beginning! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Nov 05, 1998 at 11:40:17 (EST)
From: eb Email: None To: Mickey the Pharisee Subject: Correction Message: Hey now, Mickey. I remember that guy quite well. Musta been from the same batch of windowpane. At the time, I wanted to name him but the word was unspeakable. Lots of love, eb Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Nov 05, 1998 at 14:07:29 (EST)
From: VP Email: None To: Mickey the Pharisee/eb Subject: 30 degrees Message: What is it with the thirty degree angle anyway? What's that got to do with purification? Is that the angle in which one is most likely to see a hallucination or something? I don't get it. VP never did psychedelics Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Nov 05, 1998 at 21:19:46 (EST)
From: Sam C. Email: None To: VP Subject: 30 degrees Message: VP: What's the matter with you? A 30 degree angle is the angle that opposes the short side of a 30-60-90 right triangle. The short side is exactly half as long as the long side. The Puddle Sitter is twice as far from you as he is above the floor or ground, so if you know how far he is you also know how high. It saves you the trouble of making assumptions about whether, or how much, he inhales. -Sam Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Nov 06, 1998 at 17:39:29 (EST)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Mickey the Pharisee Subject: Correction Message: Dear Mickey, I am sure Ram Dass approves if he has a flippin sence of humor! God I miss all this humor! Love ya, Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Nov 05, 1998 at 21:05:36 (EST)
From: Sam C. Email: None To: VP Subject: Correction Message: VP: RE: whom you can name Padmasambhava, the Lotus-evolved One, if you would like Since we apparently have compleat discretion about what to call him I vote for 'Puddle Sitter.' -Sam Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Nov 04, 1998 at 17:40:19 (EST)
From: Katie Email: None To: VP Subject: Be Here Now Message: Hi Veep, Understand our part of the early seventies is easier if you read that book. Mickey may have answered your question completely, but I did want to add for any who did not know that Richard Alpert became Ram Dass, a lecturer and author (and sort of a guru himself). I'm glad you think the book is funny and are not about to go out lookin' for a guru! Actually, I think one of the worst ideas in the book was the line 'When the pupil is ready, the guru will come.' That paved the way for all those 'gurus' to come to India and get disciples here. I remember thinking that about M myself Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Nov 04, 1998 at 21:55:21 (EST)
From: VP Email: None To: Katie Subject: Guru bs from BHN Message: Katie, I agree that the book has helped me understand getting sucking into the guru trip. I have a lot of compassion for everyone here after reading this. Here are some other gems of wisdom concerning gurus from the book: If you go looking for a guru and you are not ready to find one, you will not find what you are looking for... ...You may or may not meet your guru on the physical plane in this lifetime. It isn't necessary. Since the relation between a guru and the chela (disciple) is not on the physical plane, the guru can act upon you from within yourself... ...The message may be in the form of a teacher or a lover or an enemy or a pet or a rock (huh?) or a chemical or a book or a feeling of great despair or a physical illness or the eyes of a person you pass on the street. Often you will find a teacher who...doesn't elicit in you a great love or trust. Honor him as your teacher, learn what you can, and then move on. (Why honor him if you don't trust him?) Trust the messages from your heart and intuition. I agree that you should move on and trust your own intuition. He got that much right. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Nov 06, 1998 at 00:30:09 (EST)
From: Sam C. Email: None To: VP Subject: Guru bs from BHN Message: VP: Richard Alpert always made me feel inadequate, in the sense that I was never able to convince any of my friends that he was a drug-besotted, gibberish speaking, ne'er-do-well. Eventually I decided I was hanging out with the wrong crowd. It was a turning point. -Sam Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Nov 04, 1998 at 17:59:40 (EST)
From: Helen Email: None To: VP Subject: Be Here Now Message: He has written a lot of books and has worked with Stephen Levine with prison inmates. But I do not know where he is now, is he a guru of sorts now himself with followers, etc? Does anyone know? During my guru days I saw him speak in CHicago. We chanted a lot. I kind of liked him. It was soooooo grooooovy. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Nov 05, 1998 at 02:03:20 (EST)
From: jethro Email: None To: Helen and all Subject: Be Here Now Message: Hi Helen, I had heard at one time that he was with Claudia(rajaji's former wifw). Do you know if there is any truth in this. Also while I'm on the subject, I also heard several years ago that after she left prempal she wiuld give anti-m talks around europe. Anyone know anything about this? jethro Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Nov 04, 1998 at 18:02:13 (EST)
From: Laura Email: None To: VP Subject: Be Here Now Message: I think Ram Das lives in San Francisco. He has a rather large following, his name is still big with New Agers. Lots of Jewish people attend his 'church.' I think he leans towards Buddhism these days. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Nov 04, 1998 at 22:36:26 (EST)
From: VP Email: None To: Laura Subject: Be Here Now Message: If I ever get to San Francisco, I hope JW will take me to his church. Thanks, Laura:) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Nov 04, 1998 at 18:25:05 (EST)
From: eb Email: None To: VP Subject: Be Here Now Message: Dear VP, I may have mentioned this before, but the brown pages in the middle become incredibly profound if you drop a bit of windowpane before reading them. My favorite Ram Dass book was Journey of Awakening. It's filled with short, pithy, spiritual wisdom. Unenlightened as ever, eb Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Nov 04, 1998 at 21:38:41 (EST)
From: VP Email: None To: eb Subject: windowpane? Message: Love those brown pages! There is actually some good childrearing advice on one of those, but I do think whoever wrote it was under the influence of windowpane. What the hell IS windowpane? naive as ever, VP Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Nov 04, 1998 at 22:11:54 (EST)
From: Mickey the Pharisee Email: None To: VP Subject: windowpane? Message: Windowpane gives you a see-through mind! It was a form of LSD which was very popular in the 1970's, you innocent, naive guy! er, if you happen to find any to help you read that section, uh, let me know... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Nov 06, 1998 at 13:07:37 (EST)
From: Helen Email: None To: Mickey & VP Subject: windowpane? Message: Why Mickey, I'm ashamed of you! Your parish would certainly get a thrill if you preached a sermon while tripping on windowpane! I can see it now 'And so the angel cometh unto the Lord and said... oh wow, I never noticed all those little dust balls dancing in the light when it comes through the stained glass window! What if there was a tiny universe on each of those dustballs......?' Veep, you innocent one. You never tried LSD? I thought that was a prerequisite to 'opening the doors of perception' so that you could get fried enough to get a guru! What was the good parenting advice in Be Here Now? God save the children! Helen Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Nov 07, 1998 at 07:57:59 (EST)
From: VP Email: None To: Helen Subject: windowpane? Message: I have never tried ANY drug except for a little pot. I was talking about it with some friends of mine this week and they said that doing drugs was very 'uncool' when we were coming up. I think it's true, at least where I grew up. There was a lot of anti-drug info in the schools. Health teachers told us it would kill brain cells or make us go insane. Those of us who valued our minds were too afraid to risk something bad happening to them. There was social pressure not to do drugs as well. The kids who did drugs in high school were known as 'freaks'. Hanging with them was social death (same as real death when you are in high school- ha ha!) People in my generation did drink a lot, in high school and college. They weren't calling alcohol a drug back then. At the University, I remember seeing a lot of cocaine at parties. In the art building people were using mushrooms and 'ecstacy' for some inspiration. Some of them made the worst art and it was scary because you can tell that they thought they were geniuses. That was enough to keep me away. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Nov 07, 1998 at 12:31:30 (EST)
From: Helen Email: None To: VP Subject: windowpane? Message: Good for you, Veep. 'Those of us who valued our minds'...good for you, man. I can't be that much older than you (I'm only 40) but I had 3 older siblings and was influenced by their music, etc. The music was GREAT but the druggie stuff not so great. Fortunately we all turned out OK. I can't believe how stupid I was to have done some of the high-risk stuff I did back then. I guess that's one reason I beleive in a higher power, the fact that I'm still alive is a miracle. I DIDN'T value myself/my mind the way I should have. I've noticed that alcohol use is rampart in high school and colleges. it's kind of accepted, legal, and not taken as seriously as it should be. When I worked at Catholic Univ., and when I taught at a Catholic High school I couldn't believe how much the students were drinking (and having unprotected sex). I was so frightened for them, because I've had friends die of aids, drug overdoses, etc. You are so right about the creative process NOT being enhanced through drug use!!!! I used to write while impaired, thinking that my writing was brilliant, then read it the next day and see it for the muddlehead crap that it was. By the way, I visited a private school yesterday where students were drawing in the Van Gogh style, using colored pencils. They were beautiful drawings. Helen Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Nov 07, 1998 at 14:11:56 (EST)
From: Bobby Email: None To: Helen Subject: windowpane? Message: I visited a private school yesterday where students were drawing in the Van Gogh style, using colored pencils. They were beautiful drawings. I'm sure Helen you're well aware that Van Gogh was way off the deep end when he painted his best stuff. Just a thought. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Nov 08, 1998 at 21:04:05 (EST)
From: VP Email: None To: Bobby Subject: windowpane? Message: I don't know, Bobby. I like this beautiful, simple drawing of shoes that he did when he was a minister-one of his first. His picture of the crow field is very weak artistically (in my opinion), and it is attributed to being his last work. I think almost everything the guy did (except the crow field) was great-early or later. Undoubtedly he became more ill due to ingesting lead, but he was different to start with. Did you know that he had an old brother who died in infancy? His name had been 'Vincent Van Gogh.' Can you imagine living in the shadow of a ghost? Take care, Bobby I hope that you are healthy Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Nov 09, 1998 at 21:55:21 (EST)
From: Helen Email: None To: Bobby Subject: madness & art Message: I know. I think that's why I can barely look at his original work. I can see that he was talented (what an understatement) but I can also see the madness there and I find it very disturbing. Helen Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Nov 05, 1998 at 10:56:39 (EST)
From: Jerry Email: None To: VP Subject: Be Here Now Message: Vp, if you want to read some more premie bestsellers of the 70s, I would recommend Tibetan Book Of the Dead, A Separate Reality (my personal favorite), and Cosmic Consciousness which was sort of the premie bible along with the Bhagavad Gita(sp?). I can't believe I once thought these books were the pinnacle of wisdom. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Nov 05, 1998 at 11:09:30 (EST)
From: Gerry Email: None To: Jerry Subject: More Premie Classics Message: Don't forget The Gospel of Shri Ramakrishna and the ever popular Aquarian Gospel of Jesus the Christ Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Nov 05, 1998 at 14:22:35 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: Gerry Subject: Even More Premie Classics Message: Gerry: And don't forget the ever-popular classics: The Psychedelic Experience (after the Tibetan Book of the Dead) and The Psychedelic Prayers after the Tao Te Ching. Both books were written by T. Leary with collaboration from Richard Alpert (aka Ram Das). These give real insight into the mindset of the 'spiritual' drug users of the 60's and 70's. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Nov 05, 1998 at 14:25:20 (EST)
From: Gerry Email: None To: Mike Subject: Even More Premie Classics Message: God, how did I miss 'em? Hopefully they're still in print. :-) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Nov 05, 1998 at 14:27:51 (EST)
From: VP Email: None To: Mike Subject: Even More Premie Classics Message: Gerry, Thanks for the book recommendations. What was the book on Jesus called that you are reading now? It's the one Mickey recommended(I saw something about that below) I want to read that one next. Mike, Hey, I just asked about that Leary book above! :) Did you read it? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Nov 05, 1998 at 14:43:17 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: VP Subject: Even More Premie Classics Message: VP: Why...uhhhhh... Yes, I did.... he he he. I know that the 'original' Prayers volume is no longer in print, but a slightly modified version was just released about a year ago and is available. The 'Experience' is still being published and is readily available. Did you have a question about either work? If you did, I didn't see it.... sorry. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Nov 05, 1998 at 14:49:57 (EST)
From: Gerry Email: None To: VP Subject: Even More Premie Classics Message: Veep, it's called The Five Gospels. I got it out of the library. It's good for stuff like this: (quoted from enjoyingfoolingourselves.org) Jesus said, 'I will give you what no eye has seen and what no ear has heard and what no hand has touched and what has never occurred to the human mind.' - Gospel of Thomas (perhaps the oldest verifiable record of Jesus' sayings) The Jesus Seminar scholars give this a ''black'' rating, which means Jesus did not say this. It is ultimately derived from Isa 64:4. But you can't say that to them over on the NaziCult.org channel. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Nov 05, 1998 at 16:42:49 (EST)
From: Katie Email: None To: Gerry Subject: Even More Premie Classics -not Message: I always thought that we were supposed to get rid of those books, save only for a select few, when we got knowledge. We were supposed to get everything from Maharaji's satsang and reading old issues of 'And It is Divine'. I do remember very clearly that one of my boyfriends used to lecture me from 'The Gospel of Sri Ramakrisha' about how 'women and gold' were the downfall of man, or some such bullshit. (Great foreplay!) Veep, I really liked the Castaneda books: The Teachings of Don Juan, A Separate Reality, and Journey to Ixtlan. Supposedly Carlos Casteneda made them all up (Jim's gonna get me for that 'supposedly', but they are really fun to read. 'Journey to Ixtlan' is my favorite, and I kept it. (I gave it to a friend of mine who is your age to read and he thought it was bizarre. He really liked 'Even Cowgirls Get the Blues' though!) P.S. I could NEVER make it through the Tibetan Book of the Dead. Sheesh! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Nov 05, 1998 at 17:44:26 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: Katie Subject: Ahhh, but they explain... Message: Katie: How we got where we were, at the time. Actually, T. Leary's versions of the Tibetan classic and the Tao Te Ching were my absolute favorites. Very easy to read. I guess they would have to be easy, considering the fact that they were written for someone doing a 'mental' mach 4 with their brains-on-fire! Additionally, I thought his take on those two books was just as inspired (if not more so) than anyone else's interpretation. AND THEY DIDN'T HAVE FOOTNOTES(!) to try to explain what was interpreted. ;-) Oh yeah, 'I' didn't burn mine.... I just put them away! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Nov 05, 1998 at 18:00:46 (EST)
From: Katie Email: None To: Mike Subject: Ahhh, but they explain... Message: Yeah, yeah, I hear you, man... Actually I had a version of the Tao Te Ching (not T. Leary's) that I loved and kept even when I was a premie. But as far as the Tibetan Book of the Dead - I never read Leary's version, so I might be wrong, but I leave that up to you astrophysicists... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Nov 05, 1998 at 21:59:10 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Katie Subject: Supposedly there's no Santa Message: Enough about that. But how about these premie classics? (No, I haven't read the whole thread yet. Forgive me if I'm barging in here and repeating things). But here were a few books premies were allowed to read in our cloistered culture: The Earthsea trilogy by Ursula LeGuin The Narnia Books by C.S. Lewis Anything else by C.S. Lewis Dark Night of The Soul by James Brown The Rolling Stone issue with a small review of Jiva's album I think that's it.... except -- when I lived in Ottawa in 75 & 6, a bunch of the community premies got into - well what's a funny thing for people to get into? What's funnier than the cult we wer already stuck in? Guess! No? Okay, they got into Dale Carnegie! No shit, How to Win Friends and Influence People was a big fad at one point. I never got into that shit myself but, don't forget, we were having all our own workshops back then. Remember? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Nov 07, 1998 at 08:02:56 (EST)
From: VP Email: None To: Jim Subject: Supposedly there's no Santa Message: Wow! That brings back memories. A premie gave me the Earthsea Trilogy and recommended the Narnia chronicles. Also gave me a copy of The Little Prince by that french guy(?) I did NOT understand that book. Can anyone explain the significance of that book to premiedom? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Nov 07, 1998 at 14:11:44 (EST)
From: Katie Email: None To: VP Subject: Little Prince Message: I had the book the 'Little Prince' when I was a little kid and really liked it. I think that's the significance right there. I tried reading it later as an adult and didn't think it was profound at all - but it's a great kid's book. Maybe the premies just liked the title. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Nov 07, 1998 at 18:13:38 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Katie Subject: Little Prince Message: Veep, I don't recall the Little Prince being that big amongst premies but, if it was, it would certaily be because it celebrates fantasy over reality. You want to put the elephant in the snake? No problem -- at least no problem if you're 'guileless' like a child and not beaten down by 'so-called' reality. Just draw the fucking thing! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Nov 07, 1998 at 22:59:01 (EST)
From: Carol Email: rbruce@teleport.com To: Katie and all Subject: Another...and HI!!! Message: Don't forget Chronicles of Narnia! Hi everybody!!!I miss my regular visits here, but I really don't have the time anymore! My youngest son (10) is home for now because his school placement was not working; I'm active in a parent support group for parents of children with Asperger's which also has an activity group for the kids; my parents are not well and need a lot of help; and I also help facilitate a bereavement group for children who have lost loved ones one day a week and continue to do hospice volunteering when I am assigned a patient. I still think this site serves a good purpose and am glad many of you still benefit and contribute. Let me know if you come my way...Portland OR area. (I still have my other e-mail sites, but the one here is one I look at the most lately.) Love Carol Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Nov 06, 1998 at 13:11:42 (EST)
From: Helen Email: None To: Gerry Subject: More Premie Classics Message: Oh Lord, these books are really taking me back. What about Autobiography of a Yogi? Also, I remember the movie Harold & Maude was a big premie fave. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Nov 06, 1998 at 23:40:21 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Helen Subject: More Premie Classics Message: How about 'King of Hearts'? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Nov 07, 1998 at 12:43:04 (EST)
From: Helen Email: None To: Jim Subject: More Premie Classics Message: Oh, definitely 'King of Hearts'! Why wasn't GM that very thing? King of our hearts? ( I actually remember that being a pretty good film) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Nov 07, 1998 at 13:09:00 (EST)
From: DV the Brave Email: Helen To: Helen Subject: More Premie Classics Message: Don't forget T. Labsang Rampa! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Nov 09, 1998 at 21:58:41 (EST)
From: Helen Email: None To: DV the Brave Subject: More Premie Classics Message: Huh? Who's that? Never heard of it Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Nov 05, 1998 at 14:24:53 (EST)
From: VP Email: None To: Jerry Subject: Be Here Now Message: Jerry, Thanks for the recommendations. It is fun reading this stuff twenty (almost thirty) years too late. At least I have the benefit of reading for enjoyment of comedy, not taking the stuff seriously. This stuff was probably a drag to read if you were trying to 'get enlightened'. Do you know who wrote A Seperate Reality or Cosmic Consciousness? I have read a lot of the Gita. In Be Here Now Ram Dass Or Dam Rass or whatever his name is says that Timothy Leary re-wrote The Tibetan Book of the Dead and called it The Psychedelic Experience. Has anyone read that? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Nov 05, 1998 at 15:55:33 (EST)
From: Jerry Email: None To: VP Subject: Be Here Now Message: A Separate Reality was a Carlos Castaneda book. I forget who wrote Cosmic Consciousness. The name Richard S. Bucke comes to mind, but I'm not sure. Maybe somebody who knows for sure can help out here. You are absolutely correct that this stuff was a drag to read, except for A Separate Reality. I was a big Castaneda fan back then. Out of all these books that are being recommended, I think the most outrageous and bizarre is the Tibetan Book Of The Dead. It supposedly fills you in, in detail, all the changes you go through between this life and the next. Out of this world. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Nov 05, 1998 at 18:33:06 (EST)
From: Bobby Email: None To: VP Subject: Be Here Now Message: I have great respect and regard for Ram Dass. His book Be Here Now was a great inspiration to me when I read it in Spring of 71. Soon after I arrived in India with the premies in 71, at Ram Lila grounds in Delhi, I heard someone say Ram Dass was in town. I found out where he was staying and paid a personal visit at his hotel on Connaught Circle in downtown New Delhi. Ram Dass was very kind and personable, qualities I highly value. One of the things that strongly attracted me in reading his book was his account of his brother's 'spiritual crisis' experience. I related to Ram Dass my own experiences of extreme states of awareness. He understood my experiences and corroborated what my experiences were for me. RD is recovering well from his stroke. God bless him. He's been an inspiration and friend to many. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Nov 05, 1998 at 20:43:24 (EST)
From: VP Email: None To: Bobby Subject: Bobby and Baba Ram Dass Message: Wow! You actually met him? I'd like to sit and have lunch with that guy. I'll bet he has some great stories to tell. I'm glad to hear that he is doing ok after the stroke. Was he a guru like Maharaji? Did/does he have lots of followers? I'm curious. Unlike Maharaji, he gave up everything to go searching for his way in the world. Maharaji got handed everything, yet it was not enough for him. He has the title with little understanding. I can appreciate why you were drawn to this book in 1971. Some of the ideas presented are amazing (dare I say 'beautiful'?) I like many of the 'potent quotes' and the first section the best. On the other hand, some of the ideas are so silly that I think it took a lot of courage to write them down. (Especially in the cookbook for a sacred life section) Twenty years ago, I probably would have thought they were really cool. I'm glad I waited until now to read it, anyway. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Nov 05, 1998 at 21:27:51 (EST)
From: Bobby Email: None To: VP Subject: more on Ram Dass Message: Ram Dass' guru is Neem Karoli Baba, who died back in the early seventies. Ram Dass calls his guru Maharaj Ji, a very common Hindu guru appellation. Ram Dass does not present himself in any way a guru although some folks have wanted to see him as such. Lots of people love Ram Dass. He's touched many lives. I've followed Ram Dass' trip for many years. Actually I lived with a guy for a short time back in 1969 who was a student of his. Interesting story that. Over the years as a premie I saw him a few times and followed his sometimes very interesting adventures as they came out publically. I know some premies who went to visit his Maharaj Ji while in India 71. I almost went with them but felt it was too much of a journey to make. (I was low on funds.) I've read a few books about Neem Karoli as well and really enjoyed my readings. --------------------------------------------- You mentioned that some of the ideas in Ram Dass' book seem silly. I daresay that many ideas I have held in the past seem silly to me now. Some fundamental ideas, such as the supreme value of love and kindness remain ever true. Popularizations, like songs, movies and ideas come and go. Some stand the test of time. The Tibetan Book of the Dead is not a psychedelic tome but is a teaching that has been vitally relevant to Buddhists for many centuries. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Nov 06, 1998 at 21:44:44 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: VP Subject: Ram Dass was as lost as anyone Message: Ram Dass typified the naivite of his generation. In fact, he inspired its cultivation more than anyone save and except for Castenada. Westerners like Ram Dass took to Indian 'holiness' with blind, indiscriminate enthusiasm like Japanese kids in the eighties going for 'Rock and Row' music. Ram Dass was just a glib, chatty consumer. If he were doing his thing today his 'cookbook' would probably be an infomercial on some sort of spiritual shopping network. He'd be the guy in the bright, bright sweater getting over excited about whatever technique his guest of the moment happened to be hawking. Yet, it's true, that book sure meant a lot to me. The fact is, I was so young and he was so obviously intelligent, affable and urbane, his pitch was irresistable. I'm sure I wasn't the only kid who read that book and then tried to immediately pretend that, like Baba Hari Das, the western goof Ram Dass followed around thinking that he, too, was realized, I, too, was realized. I have a distinct if painful memory of returning to Toronto at the end of the summer of '72 determined to show people how I had 'changed'. After all, I had read Be Here Now, I had considered its unarguable profundities while stoned on acid and that was that. All that was left was to 'live my dharma', to 'see the goddess in my sisters', to never make the mistake of saying I knew because, as we all knew, he who knows doesn't speak and blah blah blah. It was so funny. I'd gone out west from Toronto just a regular 18 year old kid, self-conscious, immature/mature/immature/who-the-hell-knows?, serious, never serious, knowing nothing much but everything at all. Now, back in Toronto, I tried so ahrd to show everyone that I now had some secret corner of silent, inscrutable wisdom filling my heart, spilling from my eyes. My ears burned to hear the odd friend tell another, 'Boy, Jim's really changed. He seems so spiritual.' Yet, in reality, it was so hard to keep the role going. I wanted to talk more for god's sake. I wanted to just fool around like I used to. After a few weeks, the part got so burdensome. Just like it would have been for Ram Dass if he hadn't found a way to make a fortune playing it. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Nov 05, 1998 at 19:01:15 (EST)
From: Bobby Email: None To: VP Subject: Psychedelic Classics Message: The full text of many psychedelic classics are free on the web. Some titles that immediately come to mind are: Millbrook by Art Kleps. Kleps put a revised version of this book up on the web about 3 or 4 years ago. Kleps gives an insider's view of the famous Millbrook commune where Leary, Alpert, Metzner et al held forth in the early to mid-sixties. Really enjoyable book though I would disagree with much of Kleps' philosophy. (A philosophy that methinks would be interesting, even attractive to several here on this forum.) Kleps was founder of the infamous 'Boo Hoo' church. I still have a copy of the neo-catechism. Victory over horseshit. The Psychedelic Experience by Leary Alpert and Metzner LSD: My problem child. by Albert Hoffman, the discoverer of LSD. The Man Who Turned on the World by Michael Hollingshead - This book was out of print for years. I was pleased to find a copy on the web. Hollingshead brought a jar of acid over to Leary's house in Cambridge back in 61 or 62 or something like that. Leary and Alpert up until that time had only done natural and synthetic psylocybin. Their first trips by the way were with Maria Sabina, a shaman descendant of the Aztecs who did healing ceremonies with the shrooms. Other good books are available as well. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Nov 05, 1998 at 20:49:09 (EST)
From: VP Email: None To: Bobby Subject: Psychedelic Classics Message: Thanks, Bobby. I will check them out:) Has anyone here ever done Payote(sp?) If so, care to tell about that? A friend of mine said that it was the ultimate drug, but that knowledge was a million times better. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Nov 06, 1998 at 11:24:40 (EST)
From: Jerry Email: None To: VP Subject: Psychedelic Classics Message: I never did peyote, but M once said that Knowledge was like a constant LSD. It didn't even come close, the Knowledge that is. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Nov 06, 1998 at 11:41:29 (EST)
From: Mickey the Pharisee Email: None To: Jerry Subject: Psychedelic Classics Message: 'but M once said that Knowledge was like a constant LSD' Yeah, I remember that claim! That was one of the reasons I wanted K, for the '24-hour LSD.' It was nothing like LSD. I did do peyote a few times, and it was nothing like ol' Carlos and Don Juan's stuff. It mostly made me nervous. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Nov 06, 1998 at 11:45:46 (EST)
From: Selene Email: None To: Mickey the Pharisee Subject: Psychedelic Classics Message: Peyote was really popular here in the southwestern desert. I liked it a lot. Much gentler than LSD. But getting it injested was quite a process. People got real creative, using blenders and all kinds of wacky things. I just chewedit, minus the strychnine of course. I think some of the local Native Americans stil use it in ceremonies here. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Nov 06, 1998 at 11:54:35 (EST)
From: Mickey the Pharisee Email: None To: Selene Subject: Psychedelic Classics Message: I put chunks of peyote in honey, I chewed on dried peyote placed in grapefruit, I tried many methods, but it always tasted terrible. Of course, once one hurled, everything became quite interesting! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Nov 06, 1998 at 12:06:03 (EST)
From: Gerry Email: None To: Mickey the Pharisee Subject: Psychedelic Classics Message: Hey, that's right! Knowledge was supposed to be like ''constant LSD.'' Horse Waffels! I think this should be an addition to the ''Why we left'' list. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Nov 06, 1998 at 16:36:34 (EST)
From: Jerry Email: None To: Gerry Subject: Psychedelic Classics Message: Hey, that's right! Knowledge was supposed to be like ''constant LSD.'' Actually, I'm glad it wasn't. I had some pretty bad trips and was scared for awhile that Knowledge would be an eternal bummer. While it was definitely a bummer (letdown), I wouldn't put it on the level of the freakouts that I experienced on my bad acid trips, nowheres near them. I was really hungup for some time about receiving Knowledge after M made this claim, for just that reason. To this day, I still get paranoid thinking about my bad trips. Hey, who are you guys, really? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Nov 06, 1998 at 17:57:04 (EST)
From: Katie Email: None To: Jerry Subject: Psychedelic Classics Message: Jerry - I had REALLY bad trips too. I was trying to use psychedelics for spiritual development, and I can't remember having one GOOD trip except the first one, where I only took half a tab (hmmmm, maybe that's the reason!). Like an idiot, I thought the bad trips were spiritual lessons, so I kept on taking that stuff. I used to get into this trip where the world was going to end and everyone knew except me. It was so scary. Knowledge wasn't like a bad trip for me either, thank god. I think it was for some people though. I remember people telling stories of meditating and getting into some really weird places - just like you could get into some really weird places on LSD. Also, the *culture* surrounding Knowledge appeared to make some people freak out and act out something that greatly resembled many of my bad trips. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Nov 06, 1998 at 19:46:25 (EST)
From: Jerry Email: None To: Katie Subject: Psychedelic Classics Message: I only took 3 trips, each time because some new acid showed up in town, and I just had to check it out, like an idiot. My first trip was a 1/2 blotter. I didn't like it, but I got through it OK. The second trip was the worst. Me and a friend split a tab of orange sunshine and I think I got the half that had all the acid in it. I flipped out completely. My friends couldn't control me and the cops picked me up while I was running around the streets naked. They took me to the hospital, hit me with a shot of thorazine, and tied me spread eagle to a bed so I couldn't harm myself. The places I went that night in my head were the most terrifying I've ever been to. I've had people threaten my life with a knife, and that experience was tame compared to the sheer terror I experienced on this trip. Then white rabbit, also known as white lightning came to town, and I figured I was due for a good trip, for once, so I dropped a half tab of it. It wasn't as bad as the second, but it wasn't good either. That was the last time. I'll never do the shit again. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Nov 07, 1998 at 08:05:47 (EST)
From: VP Email: None To: Jerry Subject: Psychedelic Classics Message: Jerry, Testimonials like yours are another reason I never did drugs. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Nov 07, 1998 at 09:43:30 (EST)
From: Jerry Email: None To: VP Subject: Psychedelic Classics Message: VP, I've had all kinds of heads on my shoulders, LSD, pot, alcohol, ups, downs, the one I value most is the clean and sober one. I can't recommend it enough. It's free and it's real. All the others just cost me hard earned cash and gave little in return. If I had never messed with acid, I wonder if I'd have messed with Maharaji, either. My brain had been so fried by it, and had left me in such a state, I didn't know up from down after it. I was a perfect candidate for somebody to bullshit me that he was the risen savior. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Nov 07, 1998 at 14:16:49 (EST)
From: Katie Email: None To: Jerry Subject: Psychedelic Classics Message: Jeez, Jerry! I was talking 'bad trips' and you were talking 'BAD TRIPS'. I never had anything like your second trip happen to me, thank god. I do remember getting very very afraid and becoming catatonic, but I never acted it out like that. I'm glad you're still here to talk about it. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Nov 07, 1998 at 11:28:38 (EST)
From: RT Email: m To: Gerry Subject: why we left Message: ...Roger and copy that Gerry. It's in the mix for the outta here list. RT Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Nov 07, 1998 at 11:48:52 (EST)
From: Bobby Email: None To: Gerry Subject: Psychedelic Classics Message: Well it's not quite 'constant LSD' but for me, on a deeper level, LSD and Knowledge are both parts of the greater play. Anybody ever read 'Who Dies?' by Stephen Levine? There continues to be a lot of meaning in death and dying for me. And it hits home as very relevant. Having had cancer (looks like I still might be there) and having been very close to death at various junctures of my life, death is a real presence for me. For sure it's gonna happen to all of us. For some of us I guess death doesn't have any meaning, but things often change when you're close. I've done a lot of psychedelics, mostly in the '60's and have gone way out. I can honestly say that the spiritual path has taken me into places deeper than my most far out spaces under psychedelics. There are places in the heart that are way beyond all the psychedelic phenomena. Amazing phenomena sometimes accompany these heart spaces too. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Nov 07, 1998 at 12:11:38 (EST)
From: Bobby Email: None To: Gerry Subject: Psychedelic Classics Message: Try schizophrenia -- the true constant LSD :P Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Nov 06, 1998 at 12:12:13 (EST)
From: Selene Email: None To: Mickey the Pharisee Subject: Psychedelic Classics Message: Yes,puking it back up was critical. It all seems pretty gross looking back, but barfing and all, it was still better than the Knowledge of the Lard. And, honestly I wonder what i'd do if someone presented some to me at this time. I think I am too insane to dare try it. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Nov 06, 1998 at 15:07:12 (EST)
From: eb Email: None To: Mickey the Pharisee Subject: Psychedelic Classics Message: Peyote in a blender with orange juice, ice, and a shot of vodka. And I didn't even hurl! eb Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Nov 06, 1998 at 16:45:32 (EST)
From: Jerry Email: None To: eb Subject: Psychedelic Classics Message: Eb, the Peyote Connoisseur. Why am I not surprised? Float on, eb, float on. Loving your posts, Jerry Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Nov 06, 1998 at 17:49:36 (EST)
From: Katie Email: None To: eb Subject: Psychedelic Classics Message: Just what I would have expected, eb... Can you teach the rest of us? Love, Katie Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Nov 05, 1998 at 21:09:01 (EST)
From: Runamok Email: None To: VP Subject: Be Here Now Message: I'm sneaking online for this and then back to seclusion. Sad to see so much happy ex-premie gossip over Alpert.. I never would have joined BM without having read his books and consider him to be among the most complicit of individuals aside from BM. He would have been in a position to challenge BM's authority but never bothered. I could say more, both bad and good, but in terms of our forum he seems more like an irresponsible DLM bigwig than a harmless meditating druggie. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Nov 05, 1998 at 21:36:33 (EST)
From: VP Email: None To: Runamok Subject: Chill out, Run Message: At least we are somewhat on topic (snicker) Sad to see so much happy ex-premie gossip over Alpert Seriously, Run, I am only in my mid-thirties. I was a child when this stuff went around the first time. I have a right to read it and laugh, criticize or enjoy (cough) and the discuss parts of this book which I have never seen or heard of until finding this forum. I am sorry that you got sucked in by the ideas in the book and see how this was possible. I don't see this book as dangerous in this day and time, however. It's pretty out of date and un-cool. Frankly, I think The Preppy Handbook has a better chance of making a comeback. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Nov 05, 1998 at 21:40:37 (EST)
From: VP Email: None To: Run Subject: correction Message: Only some parts of it are uncool. I love the art and some of the quotes. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Nov 08, 1998 at 00:16:35 (EST)
From: Runamok Email: None To: All Subject: No thanks Message: Naah.. Alpert was too busy doing his charity to look after his own- the people he affected with his work. Abbie Hoffman was really the only countercultural type who really addressed the issue- took BM on for real. Alpert could have said 'this ain't right' but it would have meant that he had been wrong.. If his charitable works benefitted someone, that's nice, but I wouldn't want to argue his way into heaven. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Nov 05, 1998 at 22:21:30 (EST)
From: Katie Email: None To: Runamok Subject: to Runamok Message: Dear Runamok, I sent VP a copy of 'Be Here Now' (which I found at a used book store - mine has long since been sold at Divine Sales) so he could see why we and his relatives got into Maharaji so easily. I'm not sure how much responsibility Richard Alpert has for us getting into following M. However, after many of us read the book, we began seeking a guru, and there were many gurus to be found in the early 1970's. Thus the book was quite influentual. I wouldn't say that we're 'glorifiing' it. I just think it is the path through which many of us came to Maharaji (if the pupil is ready, the guru will come, and other jive like that). I really liked VP's comments on the book - it's interesting to hear someone that could have SO EASILY become a premie if he was born 10 years later deconstruct Alpert. I tried to think of a 1980's text that was similar in impact and could not (unless it's the 'Preppy Handbook', as VP says...I don't think so, though!) Take care, Run, Katie Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Nov 05, 1998 at 22:23:15 (EST)
From: Katie Email: None To: Runamok Subject: to Runamok - P.S. Message: Happy late Halloween - hope it went well! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Nov 06, 1998 at 22:44:40 (EST)
From: VP Email: None To: VP Subject: Be Here Now Message: First off, I thought you were rich VP. The book 'Be Here Now' has been on my book list web site for a long time. Heres a set of casettes by Ram Dass (Richard Alpert) where he talks a lot about doing charitable work in this life: Sacred Odyssey : Seeking Freedom & Helping Yourself CD Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Nov 06, 1998 at 23:00:14 (EST)
From: CD_BROWSER Email: None To: VP Subject: ERROR..ERROR..ERROR... Message: Browser operator non fatal error detected Previous message contains invalid value in 'From:' entry RTFM Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Nov 06, 1998 at 22:50:29 (EST)
From: CD Email: None To: VP Subject: Be Here Now Message: I thought you were rich VP. The book 'Be Here Now' has been on my book list web site for a long time. Heres a set of casettes by Ram Dass (Richard Alpert) where he talks a lot about doing charitable work in this life: Sacred Odyssey : Seeking Freedom & Helping Yourself CD Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Nov 07, 1998 at 07:42:01 (EST)
From: VP Email: None To: CD Subject: Rich in Love Message: I am rich in family, love, happiness, and friendship, yes I am. Katie was nice enough to send the book to me. Sometimes I check books out at the library. What exactly was your point? I know you like Be Here Now, but what do you like about it? What do you think about it? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Nov 07, 1998 at 17:18:19 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: VP Subject: Don't ask CD that Message: What exactly was your point? I know you like Be Here Now, but what do you like about it? What do you think about it? Come on, Veep, what are you doing here? You actually expect CD to say something like 'Oh, sorry to be so oblique, my point is ....'? Or 'Thanks for asking. What I like about Be Here Now is ...'? Or especially, 'VP, what I think is this ...'? CD will never answer your questions. My guess is that he thinks he's too good for us. What's yours? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Nov 08, 1998 at 21:39:56 (EST)
From: CD Email: None To: Jim Subject: Don't ask CD that Message: Come on, Veep, what are you doing here? Hope springs eternal. I don't think he wants to be flamed. That is my guess. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Nov 08, 1998 at 22:02:34 (EST)
From: VP Email: None To: CD Subject: Last post was from VP, not CD Message: OOPS! Sorry, I typed the wrong name. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Nov 03, 1998 at 20:22:10 (EST)
From: Gerry Email: glyng@techline To: Everyone Subject: Flowers in my hair... Message: Patty and I will be in San Francisco for a quickie on Saturday November 21 and Sunday November 22. Our main objective is to see the Diebenkorn exhibit at the MOMA, and could meet any of you Bay area folks for drinks, dinner, or perhaps Sunday brunch. Please e-mail me if you'd like to hook up. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Nov 04, 1998 at 19:25:56 (EST)
From: Mickey the Pharisee Email: mgdbach@ziplink.net To: Gerry Subject: Hey!!!! Message: Hey!!!! I tried to send a message to the address you have posted, and it came back! Please to be emailing me your correct address, thankyouverymuch! The Rev. M.G.Dresbach Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Nov 04, 1998 at 20:09:49 (EST)
From: Gerry Email: glyng@techline.com To: Mickey the Pharisee Subject: Oh!!!! Message: Sorry I forgot the dot com Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Nov 03, 1998 at 19:12:55 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Premie Poetry Book Message: The tree of life The tree of life branches strive for the sky yet need not reach them I look to the stars but my home is so close the luxuriance of growth comes from deep roots to survive is a need but not the purpose please hold me I need to be held I need to be held the world is so much my refuge is you I am drawn by confusion which robs me of all show me the wisdom that lets me exist so I can hear the whisper so silent within love beyond all reason the reason for all I need, I yearn to grow Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Nov 03, 1998 at 19:18:32 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Jim Subject: commentary Message: Sorry, I was on the phone and I just plain posted the above gem without comment. Imagine if all the premies in the world expressed all the love in their hearts in poems like these. This is the human being reduced to bedwarmer and restaurant-stuffer. This is not good. This is bad. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Nov 03, 1998 at 21:31:31 (EST)
From: Larkin Email: larkin@redcrow.demon.co.uk To: Jim Subject: release the bats!!! Message: (np) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Nov 03, 1998 at 22:43:13 (EST)
From: larkin Email: None To: A tree Subject: release the bats!!! Message: a living tree a tree with life is made of wood and can be useful for all manner of functional furniture its branches do not reach the sky since the sky has no position in space beyond being space itself so the branches can only be in the sky already or otherwise never know the sky. The tree doesn't care. I look to the stars but the amber streetlight haze obscures Alpha Centuri I live just round the corner the luxuriance of growth comes mostly from not bothering to shave and neglecting the haircuts to survive is indeed necessary for survival but has no ulterior purpose please hold me there especially but anywhere, really we are reading words of depression and desperation so let us not laugh too loudly and hope the poet has good companions around less demonically enchanted. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Nov 04, 1998 at 02:04:44 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: larkin Subject: release the bats!!! Message: I really,honestly laughed out loud here. The first time I think I've laughed since leaving Maharaji's oasis. I guess the mind's got me good now, huh? What the hell, this is fun. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Nov 04, 1998 at 09:56:08 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: larkin Subject: WONDERFUL! LOL LOL (nt) Message: nt Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Nov 04, 1998 at 11:23:46 (EST)
From: Mc Email: e_mc_42@hotmail.com To: larkin Subject: BRAVO, larkin, BRAVO!!! (nt) Message: (nt) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Nov 04, 1998 at 12:08:22 (EST)
From: eb Email: None To: larkin Subject: release the bats!!! Message: I laughed so hard I have cereal stuck in my nostrils! Larkin, your text should have come with a warning label. Well, at least all those years of probing my sinus cavities with my tongue haven't gone to waste... Depraved and indifferent, eb Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Nov 04, 1998 at 15:07:40 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: Jim Subject: commentary Message: restaurant-stuffer. Jim, I haven't ever heard of this term. What does it mean? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Nov 03, 1998 at 19:06:54 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Everyone Subject: This is your mind... Message: and this is your mind in a cult: This is my first foray in the enjoying life website, and I like it very much! My prayer is to always be near the company of truth, to hear the words of love that come from a heart full of appreciation. How often I start seeing the negatives - what I don't have. But then I am reminded, as I was reminded that first day I met Maharaji, that there is a purpose to this life, and it must be to celebrate and appreciate every beautiful breath we are given. After that, it's all gravy. To see the golden sun of the fall season turn the mountains red and orange, it's indescribable! To watch the natural world unfold its beauty and to remember that I am a part of this! I started out at Maharaji's feet arguing. My position was that there was no purpose of life, it was all a bad joke. His position was that there was, and in his love and patience and unfailing loyalty to me, my hard shell was broken, and the soft heart felt safe enough to come out and play. To this day, I still need to be reminded. My negative tendencies have not gone away, but the camouflage around the negativity is not so great, so I can spot it out for what it is. That voice of doom that somehow wants me to fail, to fall, to go unconscious. Maharaji introduced me to the company of truth, that keeps me straight, and most importantly, to himself, who continues to melt my heart, bringing tears of gratitude to my eyes that long to see him and play with him again. I love you Maharaji. Poor, poor Joan Apter! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Nov 03, 1998 at 22:58:05 (EST)
From: Helen Email: None To: Jim Subject: This is your mind... Message: GM is unfailingly loyal to her? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Nov 04, 1998 at 13:56:16 (EST)
From: VP Email: None To: whoever Subject: This is your life... Message: Joan talks about how she's tempted to dwell on what she doesn't have. What a whiner! This is life. Lumps, bumps, disappointment, sadness and all. It ain't all beauty and light and goodness, but the positives are here, too. It doesn't take Maharaji to appreciate the beauty of the fall season. Sheesh! I am so glad that I am a grown-up and can except what life is. I don't have to replace my parents with a guru. Accept some responsibility, Joan, old girl. This is your life. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Nov 04, 1998 at 17:55:37 (EST)
From: Helen Email: None To: VP Subject: This is your life... Message: I agree, Veep. And hearing more about Joan from JW in his post on this thread, makes me want to say, 'Get over it, sister. The world does NOT revolve around your sick relationship with your Guru. GROW UP!' How old is this woman anyway? This is sad, man. The emotional roller coaster of being in love in GM is the most dull, pathetic saga. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Nov 04, 1998 at 15:20:10 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: Jim Subject: This is your mind... Message: I always liked Joan Apter. I can't help it. She was very smart and very funny. When she was an initiator, she was stationed in Miami for awhile and used to hang out at the brothers' ashram in the evenings, I think because we had a swimming pool. But she was a nice lady. Because she spent a lot of time around Maharaji, she was considered 'high' and because she was entertaining, she was in big demand to give satsang. But she was miserable a lot of the time, at least she appeared to be and said she was. She was so intense, and there was always this fear she had of focusing on the negative. And she always said the reason she was miserable was because she wasn't with Maharaji. Even all these years later, she is still saying the same thing. I really have a hard time even understanding that mindset anymore, although back then, I almost envied her because I thought she 'longed' for Maharaji so much that she was in pain, and that was what we all were supposed to be doing. But the other side of Joan I recall was before Millennium, she travelled around to a bunch of communities and told the premies to take out personal loans and donate the money to Maharaji. This was before credit cards, so the premies were supposed to go to their local bank and borrow as much, unsecured, as they could. I think she raised quite a lot of money this way. Since she was speaking mostly to a bunch of ex-hippies, I wonder how many of those loans actually got paid back. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Nov 04, 1998 at 15:35:22 (EST)
From: Joy Email: None To: JW Subject: Joan Apter Message: I always kind of liked Joan Apter, too, she was so extreme, and I related to her longing aspect, I had a lot of that in me, too. I think now it was just transferring our own misery onto Maharaji and blaming him for the fact that we were unhappy — 'Oh, I long to be with you Maharaji, and because I'm not, therefore I'm in misery.' Implying he could change this if he wanted to, if we somehow got that magic call to be at the residence or something. Load of crap, in retrospect. But I did like her satsangs. I heard she got married to Ira Woods, which I kind of envied, as I always thought Ira kind of hunky. Wonder if they're still together? One time Joan Apter came and stayed at my ashram for awhile in Denver, and she was on a macrobiotic diet, and she told me that my body would 'love me' if I went on this diet, too, so I got the book and started out on some brown rice fasts, then stuck to it rigidly for about a year. Only time in my life I was down to a thin size, but I also felt malnourished so eventually came off it, it was so restrictive. Our ashram was full of specialized food trips at the time, and the back shelf in the pantry held all these different items for individual use alone. Thinking about it now, I'm amazed we got away with it, but I guess Denver was more liberal than some of the stricter places. But Joan's a cool lady, sorry to hear she's still stuck in the same rut, maybe someday she'll start to take responsibility for her own happiness and life. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Nov 04, 1998 at 17:57:56 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: Joy Subject: Food Trips Message: I remember food trips also among both ashram and non-ashram premies, but I think in the ashrams, because food was one of the few things in your life that was still allowed, it could become a real focus. So people got into macrobiotics and other diets, and also binged on ice cream, chai and stuff like that. But I think some premies made themselves really sick on some of those diets. Especially because they would be really strict and only eat certain things, and then they would be so sensitive to everything they would get sick. The rationale was always that they were 'cleansing' or purifying. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Nov 04, 1998 at 19:46:46 (EST)
From: Joy Email: None To: JW Subject: Food Trips Message: Yes, I remember all the 'cleansing' regimens. For awhile in Denver (around 1976 if I recall) alot of premies were into this idea of amoebas and parasites in your intestines, and went to particular naturopaths to get [no doubt expensive] things to cure this. Being in the ashram, I couldn't manage this, but it sure was the rage for awhile. Who knows, maybe the people who did go to India in '71 and '72 really did have parasites. I came off the Macrobiotic diet because I started having strong cravings for some type of food but couldn't figure out which one, so was eating all sorts of bizarre things to try and satisfy the craving, and nothing would. So I got back on regular food and the cravings went away. To this day, I can't stand brown rice. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Nov 04, 1998 at 17:16:06 (EST)
From: Helen Email: None To: JW Subject: This is your mind... Message: Oh God, please JW, you are telling me too much! This is HORRIBLE. Chronic illnesses & debt for the rest of your life, just little lifelong reminders of the things we do for 'love' Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Nov 04, 1998 at 20:01:33 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: JW Subject: I never like the bitch myself Message: I only knew her from afar. She seemed like a dry, smug schoolmarm scolding us little kiddies who, in reality, were abotu her same age. Naw, she can fuck herself for all I care. I hated her satsang even then. There was just something sanctimonious about her. I can picture her leading a fourth grade choir putting her pitch pipe to her lips, gesticulating excessively, vim AND vinegar. No, fuck you Joan. Fuck you for all that bullshit devotion you tried to exemplify. Fuck you and Brian McDermott and the soft-spoken euro-trash guys, and the jut-jawed Miller, Prouty types, and the ..... (Hey, this is after a GOOD day!) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Nov 04, 1998 at 20:58:17 (EST)
From: Joy Email: None To: Jim Subject: Say Something Nice, Jim Message: Oh Jim, why can't you say something nice about someone for once? Just because people are still premies doesn't make them all bad. They're as deluded by the BM as we were when we were in the cult. Just because they still subscribe, they deserve compassion, not criticism, it's no more their fault than it was ours. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Nov 04, 1998 at 21:22:08 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Joy Subject: Say Something Nice, Jim Message: Joy, Can I keep Joan if I give up another piece? How about Kathy Sullivan? I liked her? Gary Ockenden, I liked him. A whole bunch of regular premies both in and out of the ashram. Stewart, the Toronto premie who bought me a brand new guitar (I still have it) when they transferred me out west to do 'frontier prachar'. I don't know. I liked a lot of people. Hey, I'm a friendly guy. It's in my genes. But tell me, wasn't Joan just a little much trying to show us how to be premies and everything? Obviously, I never got to really know the complete person. But the part I was exposed to, in hindsight, sucked. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Nov 04, 1998 at 21:31:33 (EST)
From: Gerry Email: None To: Jim Subject: Say Something Nice, Jim Message: Yeah, I kinda remember her as some big shot premie we were supposed to listen to... Doesn't sound like she much of an example of how to live. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Nov 04, 1998 at 22:34:09 (EST)
From: Gail Email: None To: Gerry Subject: None of the ex-instructors Message: liked to dump and dunk much. Six years ago I was slaving in the food tent of Amaroo. After breakfast, there would be about five hundred porridge bowls to rinse. I started requesting that people dump their garbage and dunk the dishes in water themselves. The ex-instructors did not look too pleased with the prospect but they complied. Come to think of it, if I had been hand-picked by the Lord of the Universe to spread his message and had been waited on hand and foot for a decade, my humility would be difficult to find. I guess that's why I wasn't one of the chosen ones. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Nov 04, 1998 at 22:34:56 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: Jim Subject: Eurotrash Initiator Message: Wasn't one of the soft-spoken Eurotrash some Italian named 'Valario?' Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Nov 04, 1998 at 23:44:38 (EST)
From: Joy Email: None To: JW Subject: Eurotrash Initiator Message: Where does this term 'Eurotrash' come from? This term bugs me. Just because someone is European and slightly wealthy does this make them 'trash'? I dunno, I feel kind of sorry for a lot of those ex-initiators, even the more extreme ones. Imagine being told by Maharaji that you had a service for LIFE, and that you would never have to do anything else in your entire life except serve him in that capacity (and this was drilled into them), and be waited on by the ordinary premies, treated like you were somebody really special, etc. Then imagine having it all pulled out from underneath you and having to fend for yourself in the big wide world, often with no job training, become just an ordinary joe-blow. I think it makes what happened to some of the ashram premies pale in comparison. But okay, Jim, thanks for your efforts in saying a few nice things about a few folks. I guess certain people's personalities just rub some people the wrong way, and others not. I think I must have liked people like her (and Anne Johnson) because of that devotional aspect, which was how I related to Maharaji also. Obviously, guys like you and Joe were coming from a different perspective. Amazing, really, how we ALL got suckered in, such different personalities and everything. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Nov 04, 1998 at 23:54:35 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: Joy Subject: Eurotrash Initiator Message: I think this term is Jim's and he's used it quite a lot. So maybe he should explain what he means. But in my interpretation, there were a few European initiators who maybe saw being an initiator and hanging around M as a kind of social-climbing exercise. Maybe they came from old European aristocracy, but didn't really 'have it' anymore, weren't particularly bright, and just hung on trying to look and act cool. There was a kind of jet-set premie crowd that Maharaji hung around with and some of those initiators kind of fit into that. That's my interpretation, and when you spent any time with some of these people, that's the kind of impression you got. By the way, I agree that the initiators in some ways got it much worse than the ashram premies. Some of those initiator training programs M put on sounded like concentration camps. They got even more indoctrinated than the rest of us. And I'm sure it wasn't easy being dumping when Maharaji did that in the 80s. I think some of the initiators were true, certifiable, jerks, who used their positions to abuse people, and get what they wanted, but by and large, most of them were just ordinary people, sincerely trying to do what they thought was right. They were just deluded. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Nov 05, 1998 at 00:50:16 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: JW Subject: Eurotrash Initiator Message: 'Eurotrash', as I know it, is indeed a late 70's/early 80's pejorative slur on 'jet setting' liesure-class kind of guys. I could be wrong but I always thought some of those guys that hung around Maharaji and Raja Ji -- Valerio, Alberto something or other, Mario, others -- were buying nicer threads than we were in Kansas and, guess what? they were using my paycheck to do so. The 'euro' thing is probably racist, unfair and, in any event, a far too broad brush to paint anyone with. After all, we had our Garnet's and Tim Gallwey's and any of the other Malibu/Miami social climbing premies. Like I once said, I was once quasi-offically recognized as Garnet's friend. I got to iron his shirts and, when he got transferred to the Candian hinterlands (maybe Maharaji thought he wanted to fuck Marolyn or something. Hey, I know that's bullshit, I'm just throwing it in.) I was sent there too to keep him company. He once hit my sister -- semi-playfully -- as an idle expression of his natural superiority. Don't forget, brothers and sisters, how we once thought that some of us were truly special. Joan's a perfect example. What premie, in 1973, would argue with the proposition that she was a great -- if not GREAT -- soul? Or anyone who Maharaji shed his capricious little light on. Take Donner. We honestly thought the guy had something extra. I know I did. How else could we make sense of the fact that while we whined and pined for a few seconds of darshan a couple of times a year, people like Mike virtually lived with the guy. The mahatmas spelled it all out -- it was grace alright, grace that made them the speical souls they were so aso to be able to be with their beloved Guru Maharaj Ji, blah, blah, BLAH! And these were the kind of guys Raja Ji tried to set me up with that night I had a drink with him. He'd turn me on to some of the Malibu instructor types, they'd smooth my feathers and maybe, if I was really lucky, seeing as I was a lawyer now and everything, I'd get invited to the next party in Malibu. If I wasn't opposed to using bathroom talk around here and alienating any premie who might stroll by, I'd say fuck that too. So these slick guys with accents were just another slice of special premies. Yeah, maybe it's true that they didn't create the situaton, that they were simply caught up in it too. Well, of course that's right. But thta doesn't mean I have to like them, does it? When Joan Apter comes clean, I'll open my heart to her. But where are these fuckers? Why is JM the only fucking ex instructor with enough common decency to come out from backstage without his makeup on? Hey, this isn't a big issue for me. We're just talking. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Nov 05, 1998 at 01:44:42 (EST)
From: jethro Email: None To: Joy Subject: Eurotrash Initiator Message: Hello Joy 'Where does this term 'Eurotrash' come from? ' I think it is from a TV program called Eurotrash, it is program about all the smut in Europe. jethro Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Nov 05, 1998 at 11:54:16 (EST)
From: eb Email: None To: JW Subject: My Favorite Initiator Message: Wasn't one of the soft-spoken Eurotrash some Italian named 'Valario?' You know what it does to me when you speak of Valario? I'm sure I mentioned before: he topped my list of sexiest initiators of all time. And that 'hands off' rule made him all the more desirable. sigh, eb Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Nov 05, 1998 at 11:15:35 (EST)
From: Jerry Email: None To: Jim Subject: Neither did my friend Message: She almost single handedly, unwittingly, convinced a friend of mine NOT to receive Knowledge in the early 90s. He asked her a question about his responsibilities as a husband and father, and she told him some bullshit about his wife and kids being 'the bony fingers of responsibility' creeping up his neck. That was it for him as far as receiving Knowledge goes. His impression of Joan was that she was 'stoned on Maharaji'. He thought that way about most premies, in fact. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Nov 05, 1998 at 11:32:33 (EST)
From: Gerry Email: None To: Jerry Subject: Your friend was smart Message: His impression of Joan was that she was 'stoned on Maharaji'. He thought that way about most premies, in fact. That's a pretty good short hand description. For a plausible explanation of what and how this happened to us, check out this website: Spell on you Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Nov 02, 1998 at 10:59:28 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Think of the money!!! Message: This just in: '2 November 1998 Maharaji gave Knowledge to 4,487 people yesterday at Shri Sant Yogashram. This was the largest Knowledge session ever. Another session of similar size is planned for 3 November.' Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Nov 02, 1998 at 12:29:40 (EST)
From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Jim Subject: Think of the money!!! Message: Lies lies and lies again from the GREATEST LIAR ! The Lard already had bigger sessions in India, and he says everytime it's the biggest one! The truth really is that EVEN IN INDIA there are less and less aspirants! I recall times when he would give k to more than 10,000 aspirants. What happened ? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Nov 02, 1998 at 22:58:20 (EST)
From: Laura Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: Think of the money!!! Message: I wonder who or what counts all these people getting knowledge, maybe the same counter that watches their site and counts all the hits. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Nov 02, 1998 at 23:02:10 (EST)
From: Gerry Email: None To: Laura Subject: Think of the money!!! Message: Oh Laura, you're SO cynical !! :-) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Nov 04, 1998 at 17:51:15 (EST)
From: Laura Email: None To: Gerry Subject: Think of the money!!! Message: Cynical about GMJ? Yes, and extremely distrustful too. Quite interesting being me, I'm turning my life around. Learning how to trust myself while distrusting GMJ. I've spent most of my life doing the opposite. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |