Ex-Premie.Org |
Forum III Archive # 3 | |
From: Apr 15, 1998 |
To: Apr 21, 1998 |
Page: 5 Of: 5 |
John -:- Hey English X's! -:- Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 14:01:58 (EDT) __VP -:- Hey English X's! OJ off topic -:- Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 15:07:34 (EDT) ____nigel -:- Hey English X's! OJ off topic -:- Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 21:00:05 (EDT) ______Jim -:- Hey English X's! OJ off topic -:- Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 21:07:02 (EDT) ________Nigel -:- Hey English X's! OJ off topic -:- Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 21:26:42 (EDT) ______VP -:- Thanks, Nigel -:- Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 21:21:48 (EDT) ________VP -:- Hiacynth Bucket -:- Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 21:30:11 (EDT) ________nigel -:- Thanks, Nigel -:- Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 21:58:11 (EDT) ________Robyn -:- Thanks, Nigel -:- Fri, Apr 17, 1998 at 15:58:51 (EDT) __________VP -:- Baba Wawa -:- Fri, Apr 17, 1998 at 16:23:22 (EDT) ____________Robyn -:- Baba Wawa -:- Fri, Apr 17, 1998 at 16:36:46 (EDT) ______________VP -:- Rosanne Rosanna Danna -:- Fri, Apr 17, 1998 at 19:17:00 (EDT) ____Scott T. -:- Hey English X's! OJ off topic -:- Fri, Apr 17, 1998 at 09:38:54 (EDT) ______VP -:- Hey English X's! OJ off topic -:- Fri, Apr 17, 1998 at 10:09:02 (EDT) ______Jim -:- The trouble with words -:- Fri, Apr 17, 1998 at 19:41:27 (EDT) Robyn -:- Jim -:- Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 11:14:04 (EDT) __John -:- Need help understanding -:- Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 12:48:09 (EDT) ____Katie -:- Need help understanding -:- Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 13:05:57 (EDT) ____Robyn -:- Need help understanding -:- Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 13:31:16 (EDT) __Jim -:- SHIT! -:- Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 13:29:12 (EDT) ____Robyn -:- SHIT! -:- Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 13:46:45 (EDT) ______Selena -:- SHIT! - it's part of life -:- Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 19:42:21 (EDT) ________Robyn -:- SHIT! - it's part of life -:- Fri, Apr 17, 1998 at 09:57:59 (EDT) __________Scott T. -:- SHIT! - it's part of life -:- Fri, Apr 17, 1998 at 10:17:37 (EDT) ____________Robyn -:- Scott/spelling -:- Fri, Apr 17, 1998 at 10:37:14 (EDT) ______________Scott T. -:- Scott/spelling -:- Fri, Apr 17, 1998 at 17:18:22 (EDT) John -:- For Petrou re: the divine -:- Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 10:55:20 (EDT) __Petrou -:- For Petrou re: the divine -:- Sat, Apr 18, 1998 at 05:45:54 (EDT) Vacol -:- More on Maharaji -:- Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 04:08:09 (EDT) __bill -:- Moron rawat -:- Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 04:45:00 (EDT) ____Petrou -:- Moron rawat -:- Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 05:43:09 (EDT) ______bee bee -:- Moron rawat -:- Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 19:59:59 (EDT) ____Scott T. -:- Moron rawat -:- Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 07:48:27 (EDT) ______bb -:- Moron rawat -:- Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 19:41:27 (EDT) ____Vacol -:- Moron rawat -:- Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 08:12:23 (EDT) ______bill -:- Moron rawat -:- Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 19:49:10 (EDT) ____Brian -:- Moron rawat -:- Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 08:38:56 (EDT) ______bill -:- Moron rawat -:- Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 19:54:12 (EDT) __Petrou -:- More on Maharaji -:- Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 05:46:30 (EDT) ____Vacol -:- More on Maharaji -:- Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 08:20:55 (EDT) ______Vacol -:- A great post. -:- Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 09:17:28 (EDT) ________Robyn -:- another great post. -:- Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 09:34:51 (EDT) __________Vacol -:- another great post. -:- Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 09:59:07 (EDT) ____________Robyn -:- another great post. -:- Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 10:04:55 (EDT) Vacol -:- Maharaji -:- Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 03:47:31 (EDT) __bill -:- you mean prem rawat -:- Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 04:16:42 (EDT) __Petrou -:- Great Message Vacol. -:- Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 05:50:21 (EDT) ____Vacol -:- Great Message Vacol. -:- Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 08:28:15 (EDT) ______Petrou -:- Great Message Vacol. -:- Sat, Apr 18, 1998 at 05:26:52 (EDT) ____John -:- Positive ethical values -:- Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 09:31:38 (EDT) ______Vacol -:- Positive ethical values -:- Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 09:48:52 (EDT) ________John -:- Positive ethical values -:- Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 10:24:28 (EDT) __________Vacol -:- Positive ethical values -:- Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 10:50:29 (EDT) ______Petrou -:- Positive ethical values -:- Sat, Apr 18, 1998 at 05:33:19 (EDT) __Mr Ex -:- M's speech, Part 1 -:- Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 09:53:36 (EDT) ____Mr Ex -:- M's speech, Part 2 -:- Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 09:54:41 (EDT) ______David -:- M's speech, Part 2 -:- Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 13:43:27 (EDT) __Mr Ex -:- Maharaji -:- Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 09:57:43 (EDT) ____Vacol -:- Maharaji -:- Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 10:27:32 (EDT) ______Mr Ex -:- Comments reg Darshan -:- Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 13:27:06 (EDT) __Robyn -:- Maharaji -:- Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 10:26:18 (EDT) ____Vacol -:- Maharaji -:- Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 10:41:16 (EDT) __JW -:- Maharaji -:- Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 18:42:57 (EDT) ____Vacol -:- Maharaji -:- Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 19:03:13 (EDT) ______Vacol -:- Maharaji -:- Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 19:21:31 (EDT) ________Vacol -:- Forgiveness -:- Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 19:35:24 (EDT) __________Jim -:- mumble bumble -:- Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 20:03:18 (EDT) __________VP -:- Forgiveness -:- Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 20:31:47 (EDT) __________JW -:- Forgiveness -:- Fri, Apr 17, 1998 at 00:02:06 (EDT) __________Robyn -:- Vacol/ants -:- Fri, Apr 17, 1998 at 11:41:01 (EDT) ________JW -:- Maharaji -:- Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 23:50:09 (EDT) __________Vacol -:- Maharaji -:- Fri, Apr 17, 1998 at 00:10:57 (EDT) ____________JW -:- Maharaji -:- Fri, Apr 17, 1998 at 12:46:42 (EDT) ____Robyn -:- JW -:- Fri, Apr 17, 1998 at 10:27:03 (EDT) ______JW -:- Rovyn -- Forgiveness -:- Fri, Apr 17, 1998 at 12:30:32 (EDT) ________Robyn -:- Rovyn -- Forgiveness -:- Fri, Apr 17, 1998 at 13:12:20 (EDT) ______Katie -:- Forgiveness of M -:- Fri, Apr 17, 1998 at 12:35:43 (EDT) Wasapremie -:- An honest appraisal -:- Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 21:45:36 (EDT) __John -:- An honest appraisal -:- Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 23:01:45 (EDT) ____Petrou -:- Better than Satang. -:- Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 05:58:50 (EDT) ______Scott T. -:- Better than Satan. -:- Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 07:52:35 (EDT) __Jim -:- Does this count -:- Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 23:06:16 (EDT) ____Rick -:- Does this count -:- Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 00:44:08 (EDT) ______Jim -:- Does this count -:- Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 00:50:59 (EDT) ________Rick -:- Does this count -:- Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 01:31:07 (EDT) __________Petrou -:- Jim's lost the plot. -:- Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 06:06:15 (EDT) __________Jim -:- Does this count -:- Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 15:57:56 (EDT) ____________Rick -:- Does this count -:- Fri, Apr 17, 1998 at 00:08:42 (EDT) ______________Jim -:- Does this count -:- Fri, Apr 17, 1998 at 19:34:21 (EDT) ____Petrou -:- Head- in- the- sand-Jim. -:- Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 06:01:35 (EDT) __Brian -:- An honest appraisal -:- Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 00:06:01 (EDT) ____Petrou -:- Insults are not arguments. -:- Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 06:10:25 (EDT) __JW -:- An honest appraisal -:- Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 00:13:28 (EDT) __gumby -:- An honest appraisal -:- Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 01:33:40 (EDT) __you mean -:- the nature of delusion -:- Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 02:31:57 (EDT) ____Vacol -:- the nature of delusion -:- Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 04:53:48 (EDT) ______Robyn -:- HRH -:- Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 16:29:55 (EDT) ________Vacol -:- HRH -:- Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 20:14:42 (EDT) __________Robyn -:- HRH -:- Fri, Apr 17, 1998 at 10:07:26 (EDT) ____Petrou -:- the nature of delusion -:- Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 06:17:34 (EDT) __Petrou -:- An honest appraisal -:- Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 05:54:21 (EDT) ____Wasapremie -:- An honest appraisal -:- Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 08:32:17 (EDT) ______JW -:- An honest appraisal -:- Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 12:29:50 (EDT) ________Memphis Belle -:- I also was in the CROWD. -:- Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 16:37:29 (EDT) __________JW -:- I also was in the CROWD. -:- Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 17:52:06 (EDT) ____________Memphis Belle -:- I also was in the CROWD. -:- Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 20:46:13 (EDT) ______________Selena -:- I also was in the CROWD. -:- Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 23:41:59 (EDT) ________________bill -:- I also was in the CROWD. -:- Fri, Apr 17, 1998 at 00:07:23 (EDT) ______________Robyn -:- Belle -:- Fri, Apr 17, 1998 at 11:57:20 (EDT) __________VP -:- The teeter totter -:- Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 20:12:23 (EDT) ____________Memphis Belle -:- The teeter totter -:- Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 20:38:25 (EDT) ______________VP -:- The teeter totter -:- Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 21:02:30 (EDT) ________________Wasapremie -:- The teeter totter -:- Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 21:40:33 (EDT) __________Katie -:- I also was in the CROWD. -:- Sat, Apr 18, 1998 at 02:33:53 (EDT) Vacol -:- Forum content.Just a few -:- Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 21:16:06 (EDT) __Katie -:- Forum content.Just a few -:- Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 13:17:09 (EDT) Scott T. -:- DC Politics - off topic -:- Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 18:56:58 (EDT) __Scott T. -:- Brian, cutoff point -:- Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 19:00:21 (EDT) ____Brian, it's the double -:- quotes handler. -:- Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 19:02:31 (EDT) ______Brian -:- It could be that, OR - -:- Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 19:25:50 (EDT) ____JW -:- Brian, cutoff point -:- Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 19:45:40 (EDT) ______Scott T. -:- Back to off topic topic -:- Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 20:30:25 (EDT) Carole -:- Questions -:- Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 18:39:19 (EDT) __Brian -:- Clipped Questions -:- Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 19:21:47 (EDT) __Jim -:- THEY BAGGED ANOTHER DOUBTER! -:- Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 20:14:00 (EDT) ____Robyn -:- The EV conspiracy -:- Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 20:21:00 (EDT) ______Jim -:- The EV conspiracy -:- Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 20:27:27 (EDT) ________Robyn -:- The EV conspiracy -:- Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 20:41:00 (EDT) ______Scott T. -:- The EV conspiracy -:- Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 20:36:37 (EDT) ________Memphis Belle -:- The EV conspiracy -:- Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 21:47:26 (EDT) ______Petrou -:- The EV conspiracy -:- Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 06:39:19 (EDT) ________Petrou -:- The EV conspiracy -:- Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 08:16:25 (EDT) __________VP -:- That last post was mine -:- Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 08:26:46 (EDT) ________Robyn -:- EV conspiracy-Petrou -:- Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 09:32:43 (EDT) ____Petrou -:- Paranoia Plus -:- Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 06:34:40 (EDT) __Petrou -:- ANSWERS -:- Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 06:31:29 (EDT) ____Anon -:- ANSWERS!!! -:- Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 17:45:17 (EDT) ______John -:- Brilliant, Anon! -:- Fri, Apr 17, 1998 at 09:01:19 (EDT) |
Date: Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 14:01:58 (EDT)
From: John Email: kreilkamp@mindspring.com To: Everyone Subject: Hey English X's! Message: I'm gonna be in London in early June with me wife and me daughter. I would love to drop in and see any of you if you're in the London area, and you would not mind my doing so. If you're interested, email me with your pertinent info. Also, any suggestions for places, things to see? Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 15:07:34 (EDT)
From: VP Email: None To: John Subject: Hey English X's! OJ off topic Message: I heard today (on a radio show while caught in traffic) that OJ Simpson did a TV interview in GB and acted like he was stabbing the interviewer...is this a rumor? Did any of you see this? VP Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 21:00:05 (EDT)
From: nigel Email: nigel@redcrow.demon.co.uk To: VP Subject: Hey English X's! OJ off topic Message: Hi VP. It was Ruby Wax - American comedienne, though probably more famous over here than in the states, since this is where she became famous and has had a number of TV series interviewing very famous people - the great, the good, the funny, and the downright evil. If you'll excuse the racial and cultural stereotyping here, but Ruby is my idea of the archetypal Jewish New Yorker lady: very sharp-witted, fast talking and NOBODY ever gets the better of her with the one-liners. The interview programmes are never a formal TV studio thing. Her method is to spend a day with the celebrity in question going out and about with them, shopping or to restaurants - or if its a princess, she'll wheedle her way into, say, Fergie's stately home, managing to be 'innocently' discourteous to the pompous asses trying to protect the royal image. In every case she will form a sort of friendship with the interviewee and she usually manages get under their skin a little. She is very skillfull in this respect, and always manages to show the public the true nature of the even worst people without their realising it. She was absolutely merciless with Imelda Marcos, I remember - while people who are genuinely decent in real life end up having a good laugh and a great time. The OJ interview is going to be shown in around two weeks time, and I can promise you the guy isn't gonna salvage a scrap of credibility from the programme. He has already been screened smiling inanely for the TV trailers, like a lamb to the slaughter, as they say. I'll keep you posted on the actual content, if you're interested. Toodle-pip Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 21:07:02 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: nigel Subject: Hey English X's! OJ off topic Message: Nige, old chap, Please do! I was a real O.J. buff and got caught up completely in the trial. I spent FAR TOO MANY HOURS watching it at GREAT PERSONAL EXPENSE. This surprised me quite a bit as I'm not exactly the complusive type. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 21:26:42 (EDT)
From: Nigel Email: as always To: Jim Subject: Hey English X's! OJ off topic Message: OK Jim, I'll do my best. So what is it up until now? - two psychology research papers to order via the British Library, a trip to see Big Brother Ji in Bolton of all godforsaken places, and a transcript, or (more likely) a resume of this OJ programme. God - the things I do for this forum (or would do if I finally got round to it) Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 21:21:48 (EDT)
From: VP Email: None To: nigel Subject: Thanks, Nigel Message: Thanks, Nigel. Ruby sounds a bit like our Barbara Walters. She gets into people's homes. She asks all of the personal questions, too. (Kind of like Jim here!) Yes, please do keep us up to date on this. I was pretty interested in the OJ case, too, Jim. I think it's because one of my best friends is a criminal defense attorney. I wonder how OJ's search for the real killers is going-haha! Cheerio! (Do people say that?) VP Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 21:30:11 (EDT)
From: VP Email: None To: Nigel Subject: Hiacynth Bucket Message: I keep forgetting to ask our British friends about Hiacynth Bucket. Is 'Keeping Up Appearances' an old show in syndication or a new one? The clothes look like it is from the late 70's or early 80's. Do people in Great Britain like that show? Some friends of mine and I watch it from time to time and think it is hilarious. Hiacynth is just outrageous! Thanks, VP Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 21:58:11 (EDT)
From: nigel Email: None To: VP Subject: Thanks, Nigel Message: (I'm having some problems with my ISP right now - it's up and down like a fiddler's elbow, or worse, so if this ends up being a repeat post, I'm sorry) Cheerio! (Do people say that?) Sorry to disillusion you here but when us Anglos say things like 'toodle-pip' or 'cheerio', we're taking the piss out of ourselves. The truth is, we usually say 'see ya later' or 'bye...' I blame US cultural imperialism! Up North, however, there are still these strange isolated pockets of us who say: Ta-ra then...' In reply to your next post, VP, 'Keeping up appearances' is a 90's show that has been running for three or four series - though its style of comedy is very , shall we say, 'tried and tested', which is maybe why it seems much older. Ta-ra then. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Apr 17, 1998 at 15:58:51 (EDT)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: VP Subject: Thanks, Nigel Message: Dear VP, I'm pretty sure I saw this Ruby on a magazine show once. She is less 'establishment' than Baba Wawa. Kind of a cross between Baba and David Letterman. Robyn Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Apr 17, 1998 at 16:23:22 (EDT)
From: VP Email: None To: Robyn Subject: Baba Wawa Message: I would hate to be interviewed by her. Yikes! More Nostalgia-Wasn't Gilda Radner great? I loved Emily Littela and the nerdy character she created opposite Bill Murray's 'Tahhhhhdddd'. Those were the days of SNL:) Veep Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Apr 17, 1998 at 16:36:46 (EDT)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: VP Subject: Baba Wawa Message: Dear VP, I wanted to give her the credit and felt really bad that I couldn't remember her name. She use to do a character, Rosana Rosana Dana. Before I had my kids my hair was really frizzy and stuck out like that on the sides. Thank god that went away! Anyway people use to call me Rosana Rosana Dana, not in a mean way and I got quite a kick out of it myself. One time I was at my bank and had a good repore with everyone that worked there. The teller I had said, I just have to tell you this, we all call you Rosana Rosana Dana. I loved it! My hair is still VERY curly but soft and not frizzy anymore. Weird, eh? Robyn Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Apr 17, 1998 at 19:17:00 (EDT)
From: VP Email: None To: Robyn Subject: Rosanne Rosanna Danna Message: Robyn, Sometimes I think that Rosy O'Donnell is a reincarnation of that character. The accent, the name (almost) but not the hair! VP Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Apr 17, 1998 at 09:38:54 (EDT)
From: Scott T. Email: None To: VP Subject: Hey English X's! OJ off topic Message: VP: Remember when 'OJ' was orange juice? Have we been robbed? -Scott Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Apr 17, 1998 at 10:09:02 (EDT)
From: VP Email: None To: Scott T. Subject: Hey English X's! OJ off topic Message: Scott, Yes and Yes! VP Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Apr 17, 1998 at 19:41:27 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Scott T. Subject: The trouble with words Message: See, that's what the premies mean by the incredible danger of minsinterpreting words. Actually, I did think it was orange juice that killed Nicole and that's why I found the whole case so fascinating. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 11:14:04 (EDT)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Jim Subject: Jim Message: Dear Jim, I had reconsidered my statement that I could take sparing with you while I was driving home form job 2 last night. I come to the forum because I enjoy it and it makes me think, mostly when I'm not at a computer. I am not entertained by continually 'proving' myself in mental matches. I am intelligent and responsible and sensitive but realize I don't 'focus' enough much of the time, especially right now in my life, and so have a spaced out, or 'blonde' (no offense) side to my personality which my close friends find endearing and it is all taken with good humor. You have proven youself to possess excellent humor but you also have a combative side. I don't know if I said something to hurt you but if that is the case I apologize but I didn't do such a thing by design. I thought about posting this new take in response to what I thought I would find today, a response from you to my simpelton post. Of course there was none there and I was almost releaved. I want to be able to express my feelings about this but don't want to deal with your possibly strong come backs. I was going to leave it go, which BTW, I have done before. Then I read the Marahji post from Vacol and responded to his idea that all the ex's with problems with M should just forgive him. I would appreciate it if you read my response to it. In writting that response I realized I should write to you because I feel this is one of the reasons I am here. To work on things that come up for me about myself from my presence here. This is work for me and I don't find it easy. I hope that you don't mean to confront me in more than a thoughtfull and/or playfull manner and I have mentioned the need to come to terms with anger and forceful confrontations. I need to deal with this now and I will stop if it gets to be more than I can take on my plate at this time if it comes to that. In the past I have posted to you in a similar vien as my simpelton post and you have not responded and it has all blown over and been fine and none of it was earthshattering abuse on your part, but reading Vacol's post and creating my response I realize all I want/need/desire from you is the recognition that you were getting on me a bit and realize that it was a bit to much for me and your intent was not to fluster me or bring me down in any way. Of course if that was your intent so be it and I will react to that. I see your avoidance of this issue, as it has been lightly mentioned and MUCH less serious than what M has done to so many but the bottom line avoidance of taking responsibility for what ones actions does to others is where I see the problem. I do not dislike you and I am sorry to play this out here but I looked at a couple of your posts and there wasn't an email address. I know men, especially don't like to be called to task publicly but I had to do this while it was in me. I am affronted by your confrontational style sometimes, as I have mentioned in the past and even feel like I need to become better able to deal with confrontation. I don't have to like every part of you to enjoy your wit, intelligence, and most of all your humor. I also respect you for working on getting all this shit from your time with M out in the open. I do not look foraward to a chastizing from you and hope you can see this post in a kind light. I think I've done real well with the length of this post, I'm progressing right along. You'll have to check the punctuation. Robyn Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 12:48:09 (EDT)
From: John Email: None To: Robyn Subject: Need help understanding Message: Robyn, I realize this note was to Jim, but I tried to read it anyway, and I got stuck on the very first sentence: 'I had reconsidered my statement that I could take sparing with you while I was driving home form job 2 last night.' What does this mean? Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 13:05:57 (EDT)
From: Katie Email: None To: John Subject: Need help understanding Message: I think she means 'sparring', and 'home from'. Does that help? She had reconsidered her statement that 'she could take sparring with Jim' while she was driving home from her second job last night. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 13:31:16 (EDT)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: John Subject: Need help understanding Message: John, Here is what I wrote to Jim before reconsidering: Jim, I think I need some sleep to deal with your wit anymore tonight. Now that your off the premie trail your going to put me on the rack. That's OK I can take it, honey. If I get to tired or cranky maybe I will be able to blast you! Robyn It usually takes a lot A LOT to get me mad enough to blast anyone and in the past it has only really happened when I felt my children threatened, physically once but more than once I didn't want them to be subjected to a person's out of control tantrum. Now I am standing up for myself and I really can't see myself getting to that point on the forum because I would just avoid the problem than let it go on to that point but I am very interested in dealing with things and in the best case resolving them in some way. Robyn PS Katie, thanks for helping with my spelling. I am a terrible speller but usually use spell check and a dictonary if I feel it is important enough. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 13:29:12 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Robyn Subject: SHIT! Message: Boy am I pissed off! I just wrote this really long reply to your post, Robyn, but forgot to put my name in and... that's it. Lost, gone forever. Okay, you now get the short version. Shit! First, there's nothing to worry about here. We were only having some fun, weren't we? I said I'd only talk with premies by saying 'I know you are, but what am I?' to which Mili brialliantly invoked the spirit of ANOTHER eight-year-old by saying 'That's easy, Jim, you're a shithead. Welcome to Zagreb.' (leaving some, I'm sure, with the strong impression that Zagreb is indeed 'Home of the Shitheads'), which you mentioned finding really funny and then I bit your head off. But not really. Look, Robyn, at the risk of sounding simplistic, it IS really easy. Ex's (good!), premies (bad!), Maharaji (really bad!) and Guru Maharaj Ji [his brother] (funny!). I'm an ex so I'm good. You are too. What's hard to understand about that? Aren't you glad we don't really have a problem? How would you like to be on the other side of the fence, trying to both sound fair, reasonable and open-minded AND defend Maharaji? Now THAT would be a problem. You and I? We're just fooling around. My girlfriend was commenting last night on how ridiculous the premies are for faulting this web site as being fraught with pathetic whining, dessicated hearts chirping bloodless, raspy croaking like a run-down smoke detector, thoughtlessly chirping, bugging the hell out of you, let me tell you. As if! The ex's here are full of life, feeling, curiosity and real, honest memories and reflections. There's a lot of emotion, a lot of good thought and a lot of humour and goodwill. I think we're all grateful for it. I'm completely happy to hear from you here as from everyone. That's not a bland vote for equality. I'm just being honest when I say that, so far at least, it's just gotten better and better having so much heartfelt, honest input from those who offer that here. That means you, of course. No question. Regarding 'confrontation' itself, Robyn, all I'm trying to do is keep the windshield clean. Premies like Was, Bruce or Petrou drool such glop on the glass it seems like wiping it off is somewhat Sisyphian (??) but, we do it anyway. That's the only 'confrontation' I'm aware of. Now, you want me to chastize you? For what? For asking for some assurance that, although you wonder at times, I'm not really angry or antagonistic towards you? Of course I'm not. Katie is the only woman in the world I've ever been angry with. In fact, after seven glorious years with my girlfriend, I didn't even know men and women actually fought. I thought it was all made up. Until I met Katie, that is. But you, Robyn, I've never felt anything but warmth for. That is my customary feeling toward all sisters. Okay, you asked me to look at your reply to Kieth under 'Maharaji'. Give me a moment. I've read them all, but I've got to take another look. **** [moments later] **** Oh, that one. I think you're absolutely right. In fact, you have no idea. What you REALLY have no idea about is how absolutely germane those experiences you've had with your mother are to an experience very close to home here. Well, setting that aside for a moment, I think what you said to Kieth was just simply right and I really appreciated his answer to you as well. Indeed, I think his reply to you was the clearest thing he's said so far here. I think the term 'abuse' is so overused today but not as you've used it. I'm with you, Robyn. Ex - good. Me - ex, you - ex. Maharaji - bad! :) Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 13:46:45 (EDT)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Jim Subject: SHIT! Message: Jim, Thanks for that. Sorry I missed the long version, I hate that when it happens to me with email or the time I lost 2 research papers I was working on! My god I'm really going through something here. It started as I responded to Johns post and I realized I have only ever defended my kids with real fire. I always want to talk through any defense of myself and the thought of doing more than that really freaked me out. I think that means I need to do it because it's got me crying here at job 1 so that I can't seem to stop. They've seen me flip here before so that's not a problem and I so rarely even see or here the other 3 people that 'work' here that it isn't a problem but I think it is happening for a reason. I can handle anything if I know it is in good humor, I was just beginning to wonder. I am also glad you mentioned a similar situation in your life, not that I'm glad about that but that you understand me. I am glad we have no problem but I must say I hope you were joking about premies being bad. Like JW's said he use to be the same way and I bet you were to. They just are not at that point and maybe will never be but they are us 20 yrs ago and would you say that you were 'bad' then. Take good care Jim, Robyn...off to tan again! Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 19:42:21 (EDT)
From: Selena Email: None To: Robyn Subject: SHIT! - it's part of life Message: Hi Robyn, I have felt emotional over posts here at times. I think it's a natural thing. Remember, this is a real healing process we are going through and there's bound to be some pain involved. What I do is take breaks from the forum, it works for me because then I have some distancing. I am really busy most of the time so it's not that hard to take a break. I think everyone here is really supportive. I am sure some of the stuff I have said has looked rediculous, I am not always at my best either. We can handle it, warts and all, so hang in there. I have enjoyed your directness and humor. btw, the only hard part about taking a break is, I'll go back into the inactive archives and see that someone responded to me and I never answered. What do the rest of you do in a case like that? Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Apr 17, 1998 at 09:57:59 (EDT)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Selena Subject: SHIT! - it's part of life Message: Dear Selena, I really appreciate you response. I am on a path of healing and growth and although yesterday was an intense one for me it was a good intense, even the crying. When I cry like that, when it seems beyond appropriate to the situation, I see it as a pointer. Something that needs my attention that I didn't realize or an putting off. I have also found responses to my posts in archives that I missed and I think I have just let them go. If it was something I felt the need to address I would email if possible or start a thread like Brian did with Paula's post today (4/17). Thanks again for your support of my warts and my humor, Robyn Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Apr 17, 1998 at 10:17:37 (EDT)
From: Scott T. Email: None To: Robyn Subject: SHIT! - it's part of life Message: Robin and Paula: I think there are a lot of responses I don't answer. I'm actually lucky if I even recall anyone's name. Trying to do my best to be an accurate reflection of Maharaji. Hope it helps him out. He needs more reflections. If we all became rotten, self-centered, and insensitive he'd probably just snap right out of it. I saw 'Nell' last night and almost cried, though I thought the movie sort of goofy. Jodi Foster couldn't make up her mind whether she was supposed to look retarded or just execeptional. Robyn, your syntax keeps improving all the time. Much better than most of the student papers I read. There are a few words that could use an extra 'o' now and then, though. -Scott Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Apr 17, 1998 at 10:37:14 (EDT)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Scott T. Subject: Scott/spelling Message: Dear Scott, I have to tell you why my spelling is improving. You wrote syntax but I think you meant spelling. I am a terrible speller and always have been. I'd ask my mom (an excellent speller, see what happens when I did everything to not be like her!) as a kid and she'd make me look it up and I was so way off sometimes that I really couldn't find the word in the dictonary. Anyway when I realized how you good spellers scrutinized these things I got my dictonary out and I have word opened and on the task bar and only if I think I spelled a word wrong I will check it out with word. I am much better speaking. I know the big words and their meanings but I just can't spell them. Robyn PS I really don't get the 'o' thing though so maybe you did mean sytax, if so please elaborate. Thanks Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Apr 17, 1998 at 17:18:22 (EDT)
From: Scott T. Email: None To: Robyn Subject: Scott/spelling Message: Robyn: The spelling thing is easily fixed nowadays with spell checkers. Syntax is a bit more of a problem. You usually don't use run-on sentences as much as you used to. (I recall one 200 word post that was almost a single sentence.) You don't use commas very much, but no big deal. The rule is, when in doubt leave it out, so I guess you're in doubt a lot. You usually use the right conjunctions, etc. You also don't have much of a problem with passive voice [grin]. There is a three-letter word that means 'also' that really deserves to have two 'o's ' in it. A spell checker won't catch that. Hope this helps. -Scott Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 10:55:20 (EDT)
From: John Email: kreilkamp@mindspring.com To: Everyone Subject: For Petrou re: the divine Message: Here is something Petrou posted to me, way down below: 'Forget about the dots and squiggles and the socalled ball of light.Real divine light comes rarely at the will of God and NO amount of cajoling will do it for you.If you truly see it you can't simply forget about it or be bored looking at it.Real Inner Light comes packaged with an EXPERIENCE,not boredom but great inspiration,insight,energy,miracles etc.Its not looking at pinpricks of synthesia after a whack in the face like in so many Bugs Bunny cartoons,its real man,and I honestly hope you get even a few seconds of it.I hope that's not a putdown.' Petrou, believe me I am not bragging about this because it has nothing to do with 'me', but I have experienced divine ecstacy. I have seen that 'Divine Light' as opposed to 'divine light' (dots and squiggles), and felt the divine vibration , and not just one's breath. My conclusion: the divine experience has nothing to do with M. It's laughable for me to imagine that God will punish me for not believing in M. I see that as equivalent to saying that I can't have the divine experience because I eat eggs! I eat eggs and meat, I don't believe in M; and I have had divine experiences. One has nothing to do with the other. Do you believe that the only way to God is through M? Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Apr 18, 1998 at 05:45:54 (EDT)
From: Petrou Email: None To: John Subject: For Petrou re: the divine Message: No I don't believe GMJ is the only way but he is responsible for bringing a lot of people to the best experience life can offer and certainly does not deserve all the odd putdowns here, How did you experience it?? A lot of people claim to experience it through drugs and then go and jump off cliffs of pump H into their veins so therefore they never got IT,they only thought they did.This may not be you but please relate how you came to this experience. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 04:08:09 (EDT)
From: Vacol Email: None To: Everyone Subject: More on Maharaji Message: It has entered my imagination....how would it be if I could ask Maharaji any questions I wanted to .....what would I ask him? Maharaji....why do you not answer your critics, especially those who were premies for long periods of time , including ex-instructors ? Maharaji....why do you allow so many premies to worship you the way they do? Have you ever heard or read Jiddu Krishnamurti? Maharaji...I would love for you to watch one of his videos and tell me what you think. Would you do that? Maharaji....do you ever allow others to criticise you ...I mean to your face, so to speak? Maharaji....why are you seemingly against premies speaking out ....freely communicating to each other.....I know you don't actually prohibit that ...but you seem to tacitly discourage it ...why? Why will you not respond to these questions....if you get to read this? Or will you? Maharaji ...are you only ...or mostly open to closer interpersonal communications with those who finacially support you? What do I mean to you? And Jim and Anon and Paula and JW and Katie and so and so? The forum people? These might be my first batch of questions if I had the chance. Regards Vacol. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 04:45:00 (EDT)
From: bill Email: None To: Vacol Subject: Moron rawat Message: If you will excuse me, I think in the archives I posted a number of posts where I also had a wrenching time adjusting to my new openness to seeing things as they really were instead of coming from my long term beliefs. I also wanted him to be different. I wanted him to be what I thought he could be if only (he WAS the lord) as he claimed. Or even someone who had SOME use to humans. Due to my ignorance of the nature of god, and my poisoning by confused eastern thought, I was in sorry shape to shake off an old delusion and become a man. Tell me the truth Vacol. Did you ever SEE anything on the back of your eyelids? I asked that instructor gurucharanand what does HE see when he looks, and he said ''Just try to picture maharaji's feet in your forehead.'' I stopped walking with him and just came to a stop. I thought, 'I dont want to IMAGINE his feet, I want the real thing.' But the facts are, that even when prem rawat spoke about looking inside during the 90's, he said 'its not totally dark inside, Ive been in some rooms with the lights out that were darker' Not exactly 1,000 suns now is it? Maybe CD can remeber him talking about the techniques like that? And the best he could come up with for listening with your ears closed was 'it is silent' This is the great nature of god you are mentioning? Or bruce mentioned? Face it, other than the breath, which he says to try to feel for 15 minutes, this is NOT any great revelation about god. And god is not some 'oneness' that is unconcious. TRULY this prem rawat story is exactly like this: There is a oneness cosmic egg. We are all sperm. (even the ladies) prem rawat is the only sperm that got into the egg. We are to listen to him talk about the egg. And the supposide experience of becomeing part of the egg. But even guru charanand is just a regular guy who has not entered the egg because in the hindu misperception of god's nature, there is only the master and the only way' to graduate is to become god yourself and perhaps start your own cult. Just like the bee's. Only one queen. If you want to be a queen you got to leave. Otherwise you are just there to serve the queen. THIS is gods nature for the human? THIS is the great millenium? The great evlution is to become bee's or ants? This is truly a tyrannical frankly evil falsehood played on simple humans and enough is enough. Your thoughts Vacol? Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 05:43:09 (EDT)
From: Petrou Email: None To: bill Subject: Moron rawat Message: Face it ,in all the animal kingdoms and even in the insects,there are those that dominate:its natural.A drone can't be a queen.For a drone to be resentful aboutt is a horrible black comedy. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 19:59:59 (EDT)
From: bee bee Email: None To: Petrou Subject: Moron rawat Message: You think the bees ever had a 'false queen' problem? The four bee brothers trying to carve out a queen of the universe lordship of the hive trip? Satsang about the divine lotus that the bee brothers will show you how to attain. And the nectar from that flower and the smell and dont forget to remember to feel your buzzing! Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 07:48:27 (EDT)
From: Scott T. Email: None To: bill Subject: Moron rawat Message: bill: From my perspective I see quite a bit on the inside of my eyelids. I don't drink any nectar that tastes different from post-nasal drip. I experience very little by concentrating on breath. And I here squeaking that's like the sound of the tracks a caterpillar tractor makes, which is probably related to the degradation of my hearing suffered as a farm kid. Is the light I see God? That's a philosophical and/or subjective assessment. Could be, but then again maybe not. Good observations about Hinduism. I should point out, however, that whatever its faults it has not fatally interfered with the ability of a vastly economically diverse population to maintain a relatively open society for a long time. India is entirely unique in this regard, and amoung political scientists is considered something of a mystery. It may have to do with the emphasis on consensus, and the ability of the sects to not only maintain some autonomy, but to negotiate peacefully (relatively speaking). The other sectarian country is, of course, the US. -Scott Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 19:41:27 (EDT)
From: bb Email: None To: Scott T. Subject: Moron rawat Message: Dont forget the caste system! That is hindu based in thier scriptures. The lower castes probably would disagree with the idea that thier society is open. Best of luck breaking out of your caste. Your family has been stuck in that for centuries and the lowest caste ones are virtual slaves of the villiage. The hindu logic is that your karma put you in that caste. Not really free or open like the nature of god wants. Or the victims of that genius design. Open in thier terms means --without constraints-- NOT what you want in your neighborhood. Naked people walk around without concern of police, Women are mistreated with no recourse, Mother theresa found some REAL bad loose ends to that society. It is beneficial to have the influence of jesus/yeshua's viewpoint in a society. an --open--society is not for me. In that society there is no distain of false god incarnate gurus. But I know you meant it in a accurate way. I respect you and your views greatly. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 08:12:23 (EDT)
From: Vacol Email: None To: bill Subject: Moron rawat Message: earlier i wrote you , Bill, a long response and then just as i tried to post it to you my servers line went down and i lost the bloody lot.....aaaahhhh!!! So excuse me but right now i've not a lot of energy left but let me just say to you .....knowledge for me is not the techniques ....they help ...but K is the experience itself that is behind everything else...behind all thought, all everything and what is left is a sense of 'something so vast ....so limitless....for me it has never been about trying to measure or even understand what knowledge is or is not. Vacol Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 19:49:10 (EDT)
From: bill Email: None To: Vacol Subject: Moron rawat Message: But it turns out that THAT is the best part! Figure out the nature of the god and enjoy the interaction and the richness of the time honored understanding of the nature of man that are scattered in the proverbs, and in some of jesus/yeshuas words. Not to mention some of the other (watch out for the nutty zealots however) guys in the old and new writings of that book. Since it isnt just some blob of infinity, perhaps it is really simple in its design in regards to its relationship to us. You know so much already, might as well add this to your rich base of smarts. Too bad about your lengthy post. I like reading your thoughts. Thanks for being open with us. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 08:38:56 (EDT)
From: Brian Email: brian@ex-premie.org To: bill Subject: Moron rawat Message: Jeezus, Bill - only YOU would spot the 'moron' in that subject!! You made me laugh. As for your having changed since first posting: I was wading through the Forum I posts to clean them up and re-archive them under the new format when I came across your earliest posts. I found myself reading them and reflecting on how much your viewpoint has changed. Now if you would just stop seeing MJ behind every keyboard... Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 19:54:12 (EDT)
From: bill Email: None To: Brian Subject: Moron rawat Message: I should get back to comedy but st James seems to have hit the motherlode and is so propulsive and wild its amazing. It must be all that ''everywhere I look, your face is before me' Arti flashback reaction or something. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 05:46:30 (EDT)
From: Petrou Email: None To: Vacol Subject: More on Maharaji Message: Vacol,GMJ has been answering questions,personally,for years. Also it was his teachng that introduced me to Krishnamurti and numerous other beautiful teachers.This goes back in writing for years and has always been an integral part of his teaching. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 08:20:55 (EDT)
From: Vacol Email: None To: Petrou Subject: More on Maharaji Message: Petrou...what you have said ..'that M has been answering personal questions for years' doesn't ring true for me. The questions he answers are generally unconfronting and usually predictable. The type of questions raised on this forum I have rarely ever heard asked or answered. And I feel a new era of openess is being initiated here ...which I feel cannot be held back and which is overdue. Anyway that is my present opinion on the matter. Regards Vacol. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 09:17:28 (EDT)
From: Vacol Email: None To: Everyone Subject: A great post. Message: I am really discovering some great posts in the archives. One from JW really impressed me .....'My argument'...dated April 6th....to Scott. Well worth a slow and careful read. I also really enjoyed Liarwartha part one by Larkin....great stuff!!!around April 4th or thereabouts. Vacol Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 09:34:51 (EDT)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Vacol Subject: another great post. Message: Dear Vacol, There is another wonderful post by larkin back farther in the archives, reading the archives has been a good experience for me in general, keep going back. Robyn Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 09:59:07 (EDT)
From: Vacol Email: None To: Robyn Subject: another great post. Message: Thanks Robin ....I will.....I have downloaded a lot of the older archival posts....so I can read them off-line at my leasure and with my pleasure. Vacol. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 10:04:55 (EDT)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Vacol Subject: another great post. Message: Dear Vacol, Yes, that is exactly what I do! I don't have a computer at home and enjoy reading the archives at home, when I need a forum fix..... Robyn Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 03:47:31 (EDT)
From: Vacol Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Maharaji Message: I watched a video last night...Maharaji's first talk at Amaroo last September. I was there , but I tried to listen and look at M with fresh eyes and ears. This was the first video I've seen for some weeks ; indeed since discovering the premie org. Once the video had finished I sat back and tried to assess my thoughts and feelings. The insight I had then I shall try to share with you. My experience had been on two very different levels...; on one level....the level of analytical mind I both approved and disapproved of the actual contents of his talk. He made some wonderful observations ....which were so self-evident.....and also over stated some things. At times he was really inspiring and at other times quite boring. I perceived an ego.....and although premies might think I've got problems for saying this ....I felt he was somewhat insecure...and hiding somewhat behind a habitual and very convincing supra-confident exterior.....but remember I am one premie who clearly perceives M as a human being. On another level I experienced Maharaji as a very simple yet outstanding person who really knows about the subject of knowledge and what it represents. This level was not analytical but intuitive....and the understanding on that level is so different than the logical mind.....it is essential....insightful....empathetic....heartfelt....as if ones deepest sense of knowing has been brought to life again. That is what M always inspires in me .....yes so do others too....so do some books....and often this level of consciousness dynamically operates by no other stimulus then my own introspections, especially when I meditate, and I don't mean necessarily in a formal way. I agree that M seems to be very attached to the persona of master...but I shall not judge him for that for unlike most ex-premies I have not concluded that playing the role of master is in itself a bad thing. It seems that in this mortal human realm, we all play roles whether we like it or not....it comes with the scenery. Surely it is the end result that matters, not the roles we play. Okay...some people have got real hurt ...but there are two things I want to say about that. 1) forgiveness and understanding. M has evolved....he erred ....yes' of course he did...we all have erred....it is no arguement to say 'ah,but we didn't call ourselves perfect master.....no we did'nt ,but we called ourselves and still do ...other ridiculous things....but despite these flaws, M is offering something rare...yes...in this world where most people are so lost in petty pursuits...and are therefore not experiencing what Paula referred to as pleasure....or what M refers to as joy ...M is pointing to something that as simple as it is ....we easily forget about. Therefore if one could open ones eyes, throw off the shackles of the past hurts and approach M from a very simple perspective one may just get an insight that one does not have to be a premie but one can at least appreciate the simple profundity of M's messages. One might begin to UNDERSTAND and FORGIVE! 2) Independence............. The idea that I cannot be my self and accept Maharaji as one of my teachers makes no sense to me.....;I know that I never got caught up in ashrams and so on.....but actually I have visited an ashram for 16 years run by another Indian guru and never felt I was compromising my self....because that's not something I will allow to happen......don't you see it? we bring to any relationship whatever we think we have....whatever we imagine is right .....so the big test is ...to be independent despite being married, despite having family and friends and perhaps a boss.....and despite 'following' or relating to a teacher. See perfection where it can be seen...not where it was never intended to be looked for. Enough already!!!! Vacol. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 04:16:42 (EDT)
From: bill Email: None To: Vacol Subject: you mean prem rawat Message: My response to your thread is in the 'honest appraisal' thread just below. Under the title 'you mean delusion'. Why dont you watch the SECOND night of amaroo. Then post your response to that one. That is the one on devotion to the master. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 05:50:21 (EDT)
From: Petrou Email: None To: Vacol Subject: Great Message Vacol. Message: At last somebody who recognises the benefits of positive ethical values.Thankyou. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 08:28:15 (EDT)
From: Vacol Email: None To: Petrou Subject: Great Message Vacol. Message: Petrou ,I think my ethical values stem from a desire to be as honest with myself as possible....although my detractors would think I'm quite deluded. Never-the-less I appreciate your personal thankyou....and for that I thankyou too. Vacol. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Apr 18, 1998 at 05:26:52 (EDT)
From: Petrou Email: None To: Vacol Subject: Great Message Vacol. Message: Its obvious isn't it ! To the ones who actually have ethics. The thing that often turned me off was premies NOT GMJ and I can see some of the insights into what makes a lot of the lesser quality ones 'tick' when I read some of the entries here. They often don't reply to good argument and resort to insult. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 09:31:38 (EDT)
From: John Email: None To: Petrou Subject: Positive ethical values Message: Petrou you say: 'At last somebody who recognises the benefits of positive ethical values' Sounds like you are saying that most of us posting here do not have positive ethical values! Why does the fact that I am somewhat bored by M's message and am not afraid to say that mean that I don't have postive ethical values? This was a common belief when I was a follower, that all could be forgiven of someone if they loved M. I lived and worked with someone who was a blatant ass hole to everybody. We all recognized this but we said, 'he's kind of wierd, but he really loves Maraji, wow, he's such a devotee!' Doesn't matter that he treats everyone he has to live with like shit, if he loves the Lord all is forgiven. That was the one standard that everyone was judged by. That was the one positive ethical value that counted. I say it's far more important and far more indicative of 'positive ethical values' to love the people you live with than to only love 'the lord'. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 09:48:52 (EDT)
From: Vacol Email: None To: John Subject: Positive ethical values Message: Whoever said that premies couldn't be assholes? Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 10:24:28 (EDT)
From: John Email: None To: Vacol Subject: Positive ethical values Message: Maybe no one did, maybe I'm delirious, I've been on antibiotics for 5 days and have not been feeling that great. I was objecting to Petrou's comment about you being the only one around here able to recognize positive ethical values. I believe Petrou said that because you complimented M in your post. In other words, if someone compliments M they must be able to recognize positive ethical values. If someone does not like M they must not be able to recognize positive ethical values. See what I mean? I mean, why else would Petrou say such a thing? Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 10:50:29 (EDT)
From: Vacol Email: None To: John Subject: Positive ethical values Message: Actually I don't really know why Petrou said what he said....why don't you ask him? John.....it may sound like a silly cliche but .....some of my best friends are NOT premies! Vacol Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Apr 18, 1998 at 05:33:19 (EDT)
From: Petrou Email: None To: John Subject: Positive ethical values Message: What I mean is that people here don't try forgiveness and self examination;they often don't respond to logical argument but frequently fall back on base insults and expletives.As far as their wish to discredit GMJ goes this sort of behaviour goes against them and leaves one with the distinct impression they are bitter about life in general and are looking for a scapegoat. I don't say all lack ethics.Katie is polite and so are a few others. Jim takes the cake for 'redneckness' and is obviously childish,childless and stoned. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 09:53:36 (EDT)
From: Mr Ex Email: None To: Vacol Subject: M's speech, Part 1 Message: Part 1 of this long post Dear Vacol and all, Don’t you remember my post, some weeks ago ? That would have saved you the pain ( ?) of going watch this ! Two very important parts in bold, IMHO : the one on darshan (for those who still claim that knowledge is not a devotional path, and that this Indian ritual is no part of Maharaji’s ‘knowledge’), and the one over his final understanding (I’ve read that in most of the comments on Gita 25 years ago) about Kuruksetra’s fight. Of course those very frightening parts about evil and mind, as usual. Some comments on parts of m’s address on September 18, 1997 : First some instrumental music. I don’t remember the title of the original devotional song : Oh Maharaji ...... and I know, you love me too ..... Then a beautiful love song ....... but tell me what can I do, you are the roads that ..... when you shower your love, ...... please let me give myself to you, ......please have mercy, please let me give myself to you, I’ll do just what you want me to, now that I’ve offered you my heart, please have mercy ..... Welcome everyone .... Here we are to maybe just feel, understand about those things that are important to us ...... ups and downs of existence .... simple understanding not necessary to go up and down these waves .... your reality, your truth is above all this ... I’ve been observing .... if god created something simple, human beings immediately make it complicated we don’t know how to welcome simplicity in our lives .... What is the problem? We’ve been given the simplest of existence, ..... life is an automatic process, we have desires to enjoy .... The purpose of existence is not to solve problems .... The nature of a human being has become to forget that which is important to them ... What is true today may not be true tomorrow ... Time by nature is something that changes ..... Anything that the time touches, it changes ... We put our trust in exactly those things .... I’m not the first one to say that’s not how it is ... You have to turn within if you want to look for that, you have to retreat inside if you want that joy, it is possible, but you won’t find it in those things that are incapable to bring that joy ! Those are the people who come to me ... bla bla ..... One of the biggest problems I see with people is that their map of their world is only as big as they think it is ..... ....... what do we use the power to think for ? The silliest things. We try to chart those terrains that cannot be charted .... ...... Be uncertain of uncertainties, that a very good philosophy .... But be certain of those things that are certain .... I know this breath to be certain, I can depend on it ..... this is my encounter of the divine .... This last tour (speaks about it) ..... I have been giving knowledge, so beautiful to watch that process unfold ... K sessions have evolved to quite an art now ..... I’ve given to 15,400 people (this year) .... There is one part of you that can always march in, let’s prove that this is right, let’s go and give an example of Gita, Bible .... I know it works. Why? Because it’s sooooo simple ..... Cause it deals with human beings, with heart ..... ..................... What are people going to think about me .... that’s become such a disease .... ...... the possibility of light exists, you should not chose the darkness. One day I was thinking about that analogy about Gita. So many people have asked me so many questions about Gita .... Here is the peculiar scenario, in my imagination it’s running .... you’ve got thousands of soldiers on one side, .... you’ve got thousands of soldiers on the other side, you’ve got the good side and you’ve got the bad side And Arjun is going to fight, Krishna is going to drive the chariot, Arjuna is saying ok, let’s go see who I’m gonna kill. And Arjun sees all these people , he likes them, relatives, friends .... and he says to Krishna : mmmm I’m not fighting .... And then all of a sudden in my head something went ‘click’, not literally, and I said oh my god, this is about me, this is about us, this is not so far, and no is it so hard to understand : the 2 sides are drawn out, there is the side which is my heart, there is the side which is my ideas, this is the great war, .... that has been fought again and again and again on the face of this earth, in the life of every living human being. Forget about Kurukshetra where it’s supposed to have happened. This has been fought in America, Australia, New Zealand..... And what is the war. The GREAT war ..... whatever you call it, the good and the bad, or you call it within you the heart and the mind. The heart, and all your ideas, and you, me, I, am Arjun, my master is the Krishna in this one, and he says I’ll drive ..... you’ll have to fight .... Nice touch ! I’m not gonna fight for you, .... but you must fight. Arjun says but I can’t fight this, these ideas and the concepts you’re asking me to fight are the very ones I created, I like them. And Krishna classical answer : don’t worry about killing them, they are dead anyways ! Same part of my clicking in my head is : of course what I think to be true today will not be true tomorrow. Everything changes. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 09:54:41 (EDT)
From: Mr Ex Email: None To: Mr Ex Subject: M's speech, Part 2 Message: Part 2 of this post Then he elaborates on a flight problem to illustrate his point, some landing procedure that has changed ..... ........................ Things change, everything that I know to be a certain way, will not be that way, and Krishna says go ahead, kill them, don’t be dependent on them. So am I ready to fight ? Or am I the Arjun sitting there, saying I’ don’t know, I’ll wait next life time ‘ .... and then the other side the army amassed .... your decision is there favor, your indecision to them is like cool, another day went buy ....we learn to live with doubts .... that becomes the policy, the heroism, that takes on the guise of clarity, to be able to live with doubts, the ability to survive doubts, and you become a hero ! Can’t be like that ....... This is about clarity, that’s what k is. This is not about hate, this is about love .... The love of clarity I want light in my life ... ................. The amazing thing is, and people miss it, Krishna says : and I come to destroy the evil ! ................ It’s not about the destruction of evil, but it’s about the choice an individual has. There is no shortage of unconsciousness .... but you can decide to be conscious, and then there is no shortage of consciousness. .................. There is no shortage of hate in this world, but if you chose the love, there is no shortage of that love either ..... if you choose the truth ... it is your choice, it is your understanding ! (comments about what’s happening the starting, goes by too fast ...) Beautiful things are planned ..... Take advantage ! see how conscious you can remain. ................ Be in that place .... ................ welcome that clarity in your life, not unconsciousness. Darshan is going to happen ..... it will happen very differently than what you’re used to, it will happen backwards ... no, it will happen over a period of 2 days, and 4 sessions, so that everybody can go comfortably and slowly, not at that 200 miles an hour pace, So it’s been divided into different chunks ...... 1000 people a session, and it’s very simple, and it can be a very beautiful thing, and don’t try to go through again, it’s not fair ..... this is a wonderful opportunity. And of course only those people who really want to go through should go through. This is serious. I was telling one day to someone : to me the 2 most serious things, one is k sessions, and the other one is darshan. And I put them, I put the darshan right after k session. It isn’t for people who think, ‘mmmmm I wonder what it’s like, my mummy told me and I want to know if she was right ....’ Come if you really want to pay that respect, come if you feel that. If you don’t, don’t do it. I don’t watch at a list of people who didn’t come. ................... Come and enjoy. So much has changed here, lot of people have put a lot of effort, and it slowly started to take shape. Here is one of the first proof, ..... the glue hasn’t dried on it yet, but here it is, and also I’m happy to say ...... bla bla .... Take care of yourself ..... Don’t go in the bushes .... ................ In my experience, those people who have k are some of the most beautiful people on, the face of this earth. They really are. ............. There should be a respect, from everybody to everybody. And that can be wonderful. I don’t have to respect people, I really don’t. But I love it. It is my joy to be able to respect other people. ...................... Enjoy this coming together. I don’t have to be reserved .... You’re here, you can be, you can enjoy .... Thank you very much.... Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 13:43:27 (EDT)
From: David Email: djulian@cix.compulink.co.uk To: Mr Ex Subject: M's speech, Part 2 Message: Maharaji said: 'Weve been given the simplest of existence, ..... life is an automatic process, we have desires to enjoy .... The purpose of existence is not to solve problems .... The nature of a human being has become to forget that which is important to them ...' If this is his philosophy then it clearly indicates why he has failed to have any impression on all but a few people. Life or existence is not simple or automatic. The PA system he uses to give speaches was invented and developed by an extemely complex series of developements. Likewise, his jet. Sir Frank Whittle (inventor and developer of the jet engine) wouldn't agree with what Maharaji says about solving problems. He spent half his life trying to convince people that his jet engine was a viable product. Try to live by NOT solving problems and you'll soon be in big, big trouble, I assure you. Maharaji's statement, that the nature of a human being has become to forget that which is important to them, is one of the most arrogant statements ever made. Only a die hard premie could possibly disagree with me here. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 09:57:43 (EDT)
From: Mr Ex Email: None To: Vacol Subject: Maharaji Message: My dear Vacol, don't you think your comments are VERY FAR from the reality of what m said? he addressed very important issues you seem not to consider AT ALL. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 10:27:32 (EDT)
From: Vacol Email: None To: Mr Ex Subject: Maharaji Message: I was there . And as you probably realised from one of my other posts I watched that video last night. Okay...Mr ex I would love to examine these comments with you ...but there are so many . Where do we start? Darshan? Why not. I don't know why Maharaji places darshan second in importance to knowledge. In fact I don't know what darshan is about. When Maharaji announced that he was going to give Darshan I had very mixed feelings. The only other time I had experienced darshan was shortly after I received knowledge back in 82. At Amaroo there was a very long slow process of walking through a series of rooms and tents before finally getting to see Maharaji. For me I spent most of the time approaching M deeply pondering within myself what felt the most appropriate thing to do or say when I stood in front of Maharaji. Everything that seemed to powerfully enter my thoughts I dismissed as inappropriate.....too pretencious....too emotionally immature.....and then it struck me ....I just wanted to say thankyou. Not a little thankyou .....a deep, sincere , but absolutely authentic thankyou.....and this I did. I did not kiss his feet for that is meaningless to me personally. So how am I to evaluate this experience? I can't! But the expression on M's face was something I cannot describe.....it was not the expression of a human being that was just feeding off my devotion , my money , or anything else.....no, I perceived 'Grace' Beautitude' ....I didn't swoon or leave saying wow.....no,no, I just felt a sweet, sweet gratitude for the chance to say thankyou ...and to look openly and if you will nakedly into the eyes of a very special person......his smile etched itself into my soul.....mystical sounding I know ....but Maharaji on the sublime level of his power is beyond all the other stuff that I , you and everyone else become so embroiled in.....so okay,,,mr ex.....perhaps you might like to respond to that first....and choose another part of his talk that we can examine. Regards Vacol Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 13:27:06 (EDT)
From: Mr Ex Email: None To: Vacol Subject: Comments reg Darshan Message: Dear Vacol, I've really appreciated your heartfelt comments regarding Darshan. I do have a question: would you say any of this to a friend of yours, or a newcomer, or an aspirant? Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 10:26:18 (EDT)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Vacol Subject: Maharaji Message: Dear Vacol, What is that name about anyway? I've been so curious. Anyway forgiving M is similar, I think, to an abused child forgiving their abusive parent. I have been in that situation. I realized in my mid 20's that I had to get to a point where I could forgive my mother just to save myself. It took me more than 10 years to get to that point. Even though I knew I needed to do it for me it couldn't be fake. I really had to be able to do it. It had very little to do with my mom at that level. It happened slowly and there was a breaking point when I knew it was time and I called her, states away, at 1am. I had worked hard to prepare myself for the result I was expecting, that she would continue to deny there was ever a problem. Thankfully for me that is not what happened and her acceptance of her role as abuser was very intense and caused our relationship to start at that point. Without that I was prepared to say my peace and be done with her but who knows how it would really have affected me. This is the same for ex-premies who have been hurt accept they know M will never take his responsibility for using/disregarding them. I think maybe the most one can hope for is something close to totally healing because they can't even address M with their feelings. Robyn Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 10:41:16 (EDT)
From: Vacol Email: None To: Robyn Subject: Maharaji Message: I am slowly acknowledging and I think understanding the depth of the hurt some of the ex-premies are experiencing. It astounds and amazes me. I feel ilke needing to really comes to grips with this issue no matter what it takes. I powerfully need to get Maharaji's perspective on this...and can't accept that is totally out of my reach. But I understand what mean in regards to your mother because I went through the same type of process....and now I have forgiven her and i think everyone...which I realised was the only way to really forgive myself too. I have no idea where my relationship with M is going ...and I will accept whatever comes my way.....which includes becoming an ex-premie if I personally feel my own experiences warrant that. My regards to you Robyn, Vacol Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 18:42:57 (EDT)
From: JW Email: None To: Vacol Subject: Maharaji Message: Vacol, I don't know if you want some kind of validation for your view of things. Is that why you post all those testimonials, including this one? You are entitled to your views on and experience of M and his videos. I think you're deluded, but that's just my opinion and you are entitled to believe whatever you want. My objection is to you amplifying your experience, which you do not seem to know WHY you have, beyond that to any kind of overall statement as to who or what Maharaji is. So, you find M inspiring. I find watching a colony of ants at work inspiring. I see the creator and the power of life in the ant colony. But I don't say I am a devotee of the ant colony. If you find what M says inspiring, good for you. And I'm also glad you at least say you see him as just a human being and notice his rather obvious flaws. That's good too, although you don't seem to be able to take the next step and evaluate him usuing those things as measures. Instead, you do what other premies do and make excuses for him. But I would point out that your entire suspension of judgment about Maharaji, despite your professions of 'enlighened premieism,' to me is nothing more than cult programming dressed up to SOUND like you are being objective. You write paragraphs of testimony about how you aren't like other premies and you are able to look at M objectively and then you summarily say you can't judge him. And your statment that 'we all play roles' implying that it doesn't matter if M goes around playing the role of a worshipped diety when you know it's a false portrayal, is a really specious argument. The role M pretends to play and the role other, average human beings play cannot be equated in any way, shape or form. Now as for FORGIVING Maharaji, here is where you REALLY go off the deep end. You admit he did some bad stuff. You admit he's made some serious mistakes. Maybe you even admit some people got hurt as a result of what he did. First, to forgive someone, that person has to at least admit they did something wrong. Maharaji has NEVER done that, let alone ask for forgiveness. He doesn't seem to care whether he harmed anybody or not, so how could the injured person 'forgive' him? Secondly, usually if you forgive someone, you at least think that person is perhaps making some faint attempt to not perform the same transgressions again. Not so with Maharaji. He goes on playing the god role, only with a little better and more relatable rhetoric and even is starting to have darshan again. Forgiveness? That's ridiculous for someone who won't even fess up that he did something wrong. And, again, the sign of a person with integrity and morals is that they ADMIT and TAKE RESPONSIBILITY for their actions. Maharaji hasn't done that and I see no evidence that he intends to. I consider this a BASIC standard. It isn't some mutable or flexible point. And I don't think someone who is supposed to be trusted should be held to a standars LOWER than that; if anything it should be higher. You know Vacol, your standards for your teacher are SO LOW that I doubt he will EVER disappoint you. You don't even require that he be honest about his own behavior and admit that he even performed it. That is a double standard, and it appears only Maharaji gets the benefit of it. And it isn't 'perfection' I expect of Maharaji, it's just common decency and honesty. Would you accept that kind of behavior from one of your kids, your friends, your member of parliament, your wife -- refusing to even admit an error? Your only standard is, as I mentioned before, because it feels good and you like it, all else is secondary. A multitude of atrocities can be committed with mushy values like that. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 19:03:13 (EDT)
From: Vacol Email: None To: Mr Ex Subject: Maharaji Message: Mr Ex...That is an interesting question you ask me .....'would I tell my friends or aspirants about my darshan experiences' .....well, it would depend ...but if I've shared them over this forum....there is not really a lot of differance.....but on the other hand most people here have an understanding of what is being debated.......;the fact is that I have never shared anything about my darshan experience with any aspirant or any other person who hasn't got knowledge until now....'given that there may be some who read these posts who don't have knowledge.' Mr Ex.....what do you personally think about what I have said about darshan? What does darshan mean to you? Regards Vacol Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 19:21:31 (EDT)
From: Vacol Email: None To: JW Subject: Maharaji Message: JW....I find it difficult to think that it is the same person expressing when I read some of your previous posts and compare them with your last post to me . For instance your post to Scott on April 6th about Maharaji ,etc.(my arguement). Had you read my posts carefully you should have realised that I have never referred to myself as a devotee....although you may feel that I'm just covering up ....hey, perhaps I am , because in the end a lot of this debate boils down to semantics, intellectual nit-picking and variations of interpretation. Who gives a damn! My experience is what it is ! Call it what you will! Also I think your analysis of why I maybe write these assorted forum-entries is for me to understand .....why does anyone contribute? a little complex really I would say....and not the sport of putting others down. Really ....it doesn't matter to me that you think I'm deluded......ouch...'that naughty JW doesn't believe little ol'Vacol has it together' perhaps you are right ....I am not Master Vacol.....I only try to say it how it is for me .....knowing as Maharaji pointed out .....all things change accept That which is changeless. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 19:35:24 (EDT)
From: Vacol Email: None To: JW Subject: Forgiveness Message: Jw....one more thing.....I believe that real forgiveness is unconditional. Also forgiveness implies deep understanding. One cannot simply forgive because it is the right thing to do or because it is ones moral or ethical position. I have to 'see' things in a way that fosters unconditional forgiveness,....and for me ..part of that process included taking a long hard look at myself. Maharaji is accountable....but that's for him to deal with.....who appointed me or any other premie to act on his behalf. I too have questions .....but that is essentially between M and myself. If suddenly I realised that M was not who I imagined he was ....it would not shatter me ....and I would take credit for that situation 'partly' as a result of my own projections ....and if I discovered that M had misled me in some way or other....I would still respect him for showing me K and for inspiring me . AS for being inspired by a colony of ants.....I can't believe a seemingly thoughtful person as yourself could draw that parellel .....are there two JW's? Regards Vacol Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 20:03:18 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: JW Subject: mumble bumble Message: JW, If you keep your cool with this guy, you're exhibiting an unhealthy degree of restraint. He doesn't know what he's talking about and the only thing SLIGHTLY refreshing about this particular cpatured brain is that he thinks out loud a bit. But don't make the mistake I did and confuse that with communciation. Words here have no real meaning, it's all 'bluh, bluh, bluh' (or, in the words of the Perfect Master, 'bam, bam, bam'). I say premies post a bond or something. Yeah, that's it, a bond. Oh, excuse me for a bit, I'm going to meditate on 'unconditional forgiveness'. Really, have you ever heard anything quite as stupid as: I have to 'see' things in a way that fosters unconditional forgiveness,....and for me ..part of that process included taking a long hard look at myself. Talk about pointing the gun in the wrong direction. No, JW, I think your only hope with Kieth here is to learn to communicate unconditionally. That means, whatever he says, he says and whatever you say, you say. No meaning, no interpretation, no logic, no nothing. BUT a whole lot of hard-hitting self-examination nontheless! Ha ha ha. I feel so much better in my early stage of retirement. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 20:31:47 (EDT)
From: VP Email: None To: Vacol Subject: Forgiveness Message: 'I too have questions .....but that is essentially between M and myself.' Man, I can remember being there...good luck getting any answers from Maharaji, Vacol. I think you will get more answers here, but that is for you to discover for yourself. Have a good night. VP Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Apr 17, 1998 at 00:02:06 (EDT)
From: JW Email: None To: Vacol Subject: Forgiveness Message: Sorry Vocal, but sometimes I have to call things the way I see them and this post of yours is really based on circular 'logic.' The question ISN'T that M isn't who I or ANYONE IMAGINED him to be, it's that he ISN'T who he portrayed HIMSELF to be that is the problem. And M likely didn't even show you knowledge, now did he? Didn't some mahatma do that? And if you find him inspiring, good for you, as I have said, but I contend that shouldn't dispense him from all other ethical and moral standards. And you simply ignore the fact that he has taken responsibility for ZERO of the deceptions he has engaged in. You talk in circles, Vacol, that is a sign that you really aren't able to look at the subject of this discussion squarely. As I have said, I had the same problem as a premie. It isn't a unique problem. I know very well what it's like. And in my opinion, some things are simply unforgivable. That might sound unchristian or un 'new-age' but I think it's true. These things include child abuse, ethnic cleansing, violence perpetrated based on racial hatred, and, I believe, taking advantage of the sincerity of human beings to want to know the truth by deceiving them into believing one is worthy of worship and devotion as god, or as revealing god. I think those are reprehensible behaviors, unworthy of forgiveness, and I think there just might be a special place in hell for those who perpetrate such things. I believe Maharaji rips people off on a spiritual level, for his own selfish, personal benefit. And he knows he does it and I think that's unforgivable. Sorry to be blunt, but that's what I think. And I have thought long and hard about this. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Apr 17, 1998 at 11:41:01 (EDT)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Vacol Subject: Vacol/ants Message: Dear Vacol, Why not be inspired by ants! Are they any less of a wonder than a sunset or how human beings deal with things for that matter. There is wonder in everything if you are in the right frame of mind to receive it. Robyn Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 23:50:09 (EDT)
From: JW Email: None To: Vacol Subject: Maharaji Message: Vacol: The 'my agument' post was just that, an argument. I don't accept it and consider it bullshit. But I do think it's about the best 'argument' you could make. Whether or not you are a 'devotee' really is immaterial. You seem to have quite a bit of unconditional faith in Maharaji. That makes you a devotee in my book. I argued with your supposed reasons for having that faith and refusing to hold M to what he's done. Those are the things I don't agree with, and I would submit most thinking people wouldn't agree with it either. I said you are entitled to your experience and your opinion of your experience and of Maharaji. I don't argue with that. It's your support for that 'belief' and your attempt to put it on some rational basis that doesn't make any sense. I find your professions of objective analysis of Maharaji sophistry. But your subjective beliefs and experience are yours and I can't argue with them. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Apr 17, 1998 at 00:10:57 (EDT)
From: Vacol Email: None To: JW Subject: Maharaji Message: Fair enough ..JW....you accept my subjective experiences...and I except yours. Your thoughts about what you consider my invalid attempts to rationalise M and my experiences,as my thoughts concerning your attempts to rationalise your position and your experiences are just that.....our thoughts ....so be it! I realised that your little experiment in justifying M in that post to Scott wasn't intended to be taken as your real position....but rather an example of a typical premie mind-set , but I can't help but feel that somewhere in that ex-premie, anti-Maharaji stance of yours there isn't a whisper that says....'but that might all be true'. You're deny that I guess....and perhaps it would be altogether too disturbing for Some ex-premies who have invested so much time and energy to ridding themselves of M's contaminating lies to suddenly even suspect that they have dupped themselves all along. Not that all the grievances that premies feel are unfounded....but I FEEL IF ANYONE REALLY WANTS A MORE BALANCED PICTURE OF MY COMPLEX seemingly contradictory position then read my other posts. My position is indeed many-sided. Regards Vacol Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Apr 17, 1998 at 12:46:42 (EDT)
From: JW Email: None To: Vacol Subject: Maharaji Message: Yes, Vacol, your posts are, indeed, 'many sided.' To tell you the truth, I marvel at your ability to hold what seem to be completely contradictory views in your head at the same time. As you know, this drives Jim completely to despair; I am just amazed at it, and remember that it wasn't so long ago that I did the same thing. So, I commend your apparent attempts to understand and figure out what is happening to you, but I don't envy you in the process. I think most ex-premies have already done that, and, at least for me, it was both exhilarating and very confronting. As I think I said to someone who was posting as 'A Premie,' there is of course the possibility that I am completely wrong about the Big M and that he really is some sort of 'master' capable of bringing fulfillment to peoples' lives. Maybe he is even the messiah. That is a possibility. But my experience says otherwise, and, obviously, I have to go with what I feel and know. And if I admit that, are you willing to admit that you just might be following or believing in a a fraud? Clearly, both are within the realm of possibilities. We has humans have to sort that out on our own, based on the evidence. What I found, was that while I was a premie I ignored the evidence (partly because that was his agya (not to doubt)) for a long time. That is the danger in the system that the Big M supports. And my 'argument' that I wrote to Scott was basically what I believed in the last few years I was a premie. It was partly what I used to justify the abusive and uncarring behavior I had seen in Maharaji. It was the best I could cobble together to keep my belief system going. I had invested so much in it; it was very painful and confronting to look at what was REALLY happening. But when I did, I got free of it, and my life stopped stagnating. I have never for one moment regretted doing that, however I do regret not paying attention to my own feelings and judgments WHILE I was a premie. I would have stopped stagnating a lot sooner if I had. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Apr 17, 1998 at 10:27:03 (EDT)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: JW Subject: JW Message: Dear Joe, Have you read my response to Vacol about forgiveness and my mom? It would logicaly seem that someone can not be forgiven unless they admit holding responsibility for their actions. In healing from a dysfunctional family I first read a book, My Mother Myself, that alerted me to the fact that without dealing with my mother that it was likely that I would become more like her over time and even more so after her death, not wanting to think ill of the dead. That book started my process to deal with my mom because I always had a mamoth fear of being like her. I was taught in therapy that you can forgive in a one sided fashion if the 'abuser' will not acknowledge the problem which is what my mom was doing. It took almost 20 years for me to feel that maybe I was ready. It is not an easy thing to do but the purpose is to help yourself not the person you are forgiving. As it turned out my mom finally did acknowledge her abuse and so I had a much fuller complete experience of forgiveness. Who knows how it would have affected my life if she had not ackowledge her abuse. My plan was to break ties with her but we have actually gotten along better as far as phone calls as we live far apart. The thing is there is no or much less healing for the hurt without that forgiveness. It is a way to get yourself feeling better and has nothing to do with the person who will not acknowledge responsibility and in no way wipes away their continued responsibility for those acts. I hope you can see my point. It is a delicate one I know and as it turned out for me I didn't have to experience it other than in my years of preperation. Robyn Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Apr 17, 1998 at 12:30:32 (EDT)
From: JW Email: None To: Robyn Subject: Rovyn -- Forgiveness Message: Robyn, I agree with you completely. But I think there is a difference between 'forgiving' for purposes of one's own, personal growth and well-being, and whether the perpetrator is entitled to 'forgiveness.' I think those are two different things. If I was abused as a child, and discovered in therapy as an adult that I had repressed that, and it was causing all kinds of adjustment disorders in my life, I might find that 'forgiving' the abuser might help in dealing with those problems. But that is very different than saying the perpetrator is entitled to forgiveness. And the situation with Maharaji is different. With an abusive parent, the ability of the parent to continue the abuse has ended, but with Maharaji, in my opinion, he is continuing with the abuse unabated and won't take responsibility for anything he has done. And it's not like he has disappeared and is living as a hermit somewhere either. He is continuing to ask people to trust him, without showing any signs of trustworthiness, (i.e. taking responsibility for past abuse). I think it's important to point that out. Now, personally, I think I've long ago gotten beyond what I feel M did to me personally. I don't expect or need him to say he's sorry or to make amends. I'm not interested in that. But in a larger sense, my own sense of justice and self-worth, means I intend to say what happened and not let it be shoved under the carpet either, or not let M off the hook because of some flimsy argument (like Vacol makes) that one should 'forgive Maharaji.' That is just ludicrous. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Apr 17, 1998 at 13:12:20 (EDT)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: JW Subject: Rovyn -- Forgiveness Message: Dear Joe, I just want to make one clarification about my forgiving my mother. You are right she can no longer abuse me but for many years after becoming an adult and living on my own and I never forgot the abuse that took place, she still had a HUGE effect on me even just on the phone so in that way it did continue. Also she still is a bitch to put it bluntly. My forgiving her and even her admitance did not change her! She is still a bitch to my dad and my sister who still lives with her because she has neurological problems and due to her being slow was the target of Unimaginal abuses at my mother's hand! She no longer beats the shit out of anyone and told me years before I forgave her that she still wanted to but was just to tired! I wrote her off for a long time after that statement. She continues to verbally abuse and bitch at those around her. The difference after my forgiving her and her taking responsibility is that now when I talk to her and she relates an 'incodent' I can tell her, for example, 'God it must be so hard for you to keep up all the energy you use to be a bitch'. I say it with a light tone and I think it makes her stop and look at things from a different perspective. My point about the forgivness being for the benifit of the forgiver alone, I think is still valid for me anyway. You certainly seem to have freed yourself from the negative aspects M put into your life, thank god. But for those who are still hurting maybe this could help. M's actions are unforgivable but as someone has said before that is his problem. It is a very delicate line. Robyn Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Apr 17, 1998 at 12:35:43 (EDT)
From: Katie Email: None To: Robyn and JW Subject: Forgiveness of M Message: Hi JW and Robyn - I just wanted to say that I agree with Robyn on the subject of forgiveness. I wanted to answer your original post, JW, but it was a sensitive topic and I have been home with the flu for three days and am not sure how coherent I can be. I think that you CAN forgive people who don't admit that they did anything wrong. People do it all the time - for example, after their parents die. It's important for yourself to forgive - when you're still angry at someone, you're still bound to them in a certain way. Forgiveness helps one to get detached and become free of the influence of that person. The best way I have found to forgive people is to try and figure out WHY they would do what they did and to feel some compassion for them. I have been able to do this with Maharaji and with other people who have hurt me. I'm still working on other people in my life. (I have never tried to do this for Pol Pot, Idi Amin, or Hitler, I must admit. I guess the closest I can come to forgiving people like that is to try and imagine what it would be like to actually be that person. How horrible - to me anyway.) I hope this is relatively coherent. I'd like to write more about it later when I feel better. Katie Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 21:45:36 (EDT)
From: Wasapremie Email: None To: Everyone Subject: An honest appraisal Message: Maharaji may not be God. But God could be Maharaji. If there was a person who was desperate for God, some outward manifestation, then surely it would be possible for God to manifest in Maharaji. Or in fact, for God to manifest AS Maharaji. This need not be a permanent thing, like saying Maharaji is God but if a person truly believed that Maharaji was the ultimate manifestation of God then God could quite possibly manifest himself as Maharaji for the benefit of the person. Maharaji is not all bad. He showed me things about the nature of devotion that no other religious leader has done, for me. He created a scenario of the Lord in human form and the devotee in human form. This was for a while, a most amazing and strong experience for me. He said things about the nature of that relationship which struck home as being most profound and beautiful. Such as Maharaji coming for just ONE person. Now the question is, did my following Maharaji bring me to a closer understanding of the nature of God and my relationship with him? The answer is a resounding yes! But Maharaji could have been an unwitting catalyst in this. It may be that God tried to find a way to reach me and so He used Maharaji to get to me. The other possibility is that Maharaji is in fact the manifestation of God on this Earth. There are two ways of looking at what has happened. Perhaps it is true that God has used Maharaji to reach certain people. Or perhaps Maharaji is god. Who here believes the latter? Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 23:01:45 (EDT)
From: John Email: None To: Wasapremie Subject: An honest appraisal Message: [btw everyone, I'm dropping the K. off my name, since I'm the only John who posts here regularly why should I bother?] Dear Was: I also had many postive experiences following M, and I also basically thought of him as God, the superior power in person, that whom deserves my devotion, whatever. BUT, I also had many negative experiences following M, which of course at the time were not allowed to be expressed in a normal healthy manner and I also had many experiences which told me that M was not God, and not one deserving my devotion, and he was not , as we used to sing, 'my all'. After all, wouldn't 'my all' take some interest in 'me'? Of course those experiences were also not allowed to be expressed or explored or discussed at the time. In retrospect, since my contact with M was at programs - him on throne, me in audience - I now attribute the positive experiences I had to the people I was with, namely the premies. Or to the activities I was engaged in. Since he never once gave me a Knowledge review or taught me anything about meditation, I credit myself for making the effort because I was the one who did it without his help. At one time, I loved giving credit to him. I thought it was the correct (or spiritual?) way to act. I wanted very much to believe that I had found the superior power in person, but after a certain number of years of being confounded by the strange and wierd scene, I gave up the effort. My gut feeling is that God is within me and has always been there and always will be there. I have no interest in M, I have no interest in seeing him again, or hearing him talk. I really have no interest in 'holy men' who sit on thrones and wear crowns and tell us to worship them. If it turns you on, go ahead, enjoy. You probably won't like this forum though. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 05:58:50 (EDT)
From: Petrou Email: None To: John Subject: Better than Satang. Message: The forum is better than the old meetings because you get the whole story about the people involved.I haven't been this inspired for ages.The Truth is STILL manifesting even with all the negativity:amazing. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 07:52:35 (EDT)
From: Scott T. Email: None To: Petrou Subject: Better than Satan. Message: Petrou: A 'Freudian' slip? Scott Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 23:06:16 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Wasapremie Subject: Does this count Message: Does this guy count as a premie? Cause I said I wouldn't talk to them anymore. But this guy says he WAS a premie. Hmm.. Look, Was, you seem to be one of those unfortunate grown adults who, outside the world of cults, are quite rare in their avoidance of the truth question. Yes, Maharaji 'created a scenario of the Lord in human form'. If it wasn't true then he was a fraud. Can't you see that? Boy, I think it's really scary what can happen to a human mind. No, I've decided, you're a premie. That means I ain't talking with you. Don't bother responding. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 00:44:08 (EDT)
From: Rick Email: None To: Jim Subject: Does this count Message: Oh come on Jim, you're falling apart at the seams. This definitely falls in the premie category, and you just couldn't resist. Who knows, it could be a compulsion, or it could be a loyalty to the truth. Either way you cheated, and fell prey to the very flaw you so often niggle premies about: Making a statement and then blurring the circumstances for convenience. Not only that, you failed to answer the question. The question , Jim, the bloody question : Who believes the latter? (that maharaji is God) The answer, of course was at least, 'Not me'. You were so swept away you evaded the very discussion. How about an elocution of all the tresspasses? Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 00:50:59 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Rick Subject: Does this count Message: Rick, I'm shocked at your diatribe. Et tu, Ricardo?, I want to ask. How was I to know that I was responding to a premie until I'd FINISHED my post? I'm not prescient, you know. So you think I can't quit, eh? Is that it? You think that twenty years of getting up every morning and kicking the dog on my way out the door makes it a habit or something? Boy, that's cynical, Rick. Not to mention not in keeping with Dawkins at all. What's got into you, anyway? And now what, you're going to accuse me of counter-attacking cuz I got no defence? Pretty lame, RICO, if I can call you that. Organized conspiracy is right. Bruce -- if I could talk with him -- Bruce, I'd say, you're right about everything. Alas, I can't. Can I? Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 01:31:07 (EDT)
From: Rick Email: None To: Jim Subject: Does this count Message: Jim, It's not so much the habit but the passion with which you pummel the poor premies, whose blindness may be more psychological than mentally-deficient (for example, a really smart person who keeps hooking up with abusive spouses). If I might venture to be therapeutical here for a moment, you were no less intelligent twenty years ago than you are now, and despite there being no web site or Guru Papers, there were plenty of people who weren't rocket scientists that saw right through the little chump. It's not that I think you can't quit, but I think you'll suffer if you do. Or is it like a gorgeous bombshell who says, 'I don't really like sex, but I'm really good at it.' Not only that, we'll (the ex's) suffer because none of us are as good at it (i.e., hanging them with their own rope). So take this episode of falling off the wagon as an opportunity to get one last binge in, and please... answer Bruce's post, because it begs for your own special brand of thrashing. Especially the part about how this site might jeopardize maharaji and his family's safety. Come on Jim, you know you felt an unbearable urge to respond when you read that. Look, you've already had the first drink... you're drinking again, face it. So before you quit again have a few more, and answer Bruce's post. Now was that reference to RICO and the conspiracy, a pun about the RICO statutes? Very clever. But I'll bet Robyn didn't get the joke that referred to 'Why is this night different from all other night?' Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 06:06:15 (EDT)
From: Petrou Email: None To: Rick Subject: Jim's lost the plot. Message: Its too late Rick Jim's had enough.If you could ever lose an argument completely Jim just has. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 15:57:56 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Rick Subject: Does this count Message: Rick, First I've got say there's no such word as 'therapeutical'. But, I won't be fussy. You've reached out to help and, brother, I can use a hand. On the OTHER hand, Rick, I'm not sure your 'one more drink' strategy is safe. Can you vouch for it? Have YOU read anything about Quantum Physics, Comparative Religion or the Celestine Prophecies? There's a lot of stuff there, you know. No, I won't talk with Bruce. Frankly, he scares me. You thought Petrou was intimidating but Bruce cuts right through all our bullshit. Worse, he knows it. Apparently, he's on the verge of trying up a few loopholes and ensuring that no one ever talks unkindly of Maharaj Ji again. I have to admit, I felt something when he was talking about the day Maharaji starts speaking up for himself via the courts. Whoa, I thought, and woe unto him who defameth the Lord God almighty in human form! And then I wondered, is this what they call an 'experience'? Was I having an experience? I don't know, but I sure felt something. And then I started thinking about the other guy who fought the Lord God Maharaji in court, that being BBJ, aka Satpal Maharaji (d/b/a Guru Maharaj Ji). Did he wither and die or turn into a leper or something? Maybe within inside but, as far as I know, he's doing okay. Got to be finance minister in the Indian government AND the new, improved Guru Maharaj Ji. So maybe HE's the one having an experience. But, you know Rick, you're not going to get me to talk with him. I'm too bust watching Petrou and Vacol decide on what they can and can't agree upon. Thanks anyway, Jim P.S. What, is she a shiksa or something? Hmm, there's ANOTHER experience. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Apr 17, 1998 at 00:08:42 (EDT)
From: Rick Email: None To: Jim Subject: Does this count Message: Yeah, she's a schicksa and could use some prepping for the ex-cults yiddish suare. I never read any of the books you mentioned, but what little I've heard about the Celestine Prophesy, I didn't like. Oh well, carry on in the careful waters. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Apr 17, 1998 at 19:34:21 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Rick Subject: Does this count Message: 'Soire', Rick, ya meshugina. Well, as Maharaji might have said, 'Oy, my premies, such nachus my Daya gives me. Oy, kenana hora!' P.S. I got the bounty, thanks very much. Anyone reading, Rick sent me a copy of this short-lived premie publication focused on parenting with knowledge, called 'All God's Children'. It's got a lot of satsang, some from Maharaji and some from -- who else? -- Durga Ji and Claudia -- really ridiculous articles about childcare and the holy name, satsang from premies. Tell you what? I'll post a bit of this one guy's satsang that's pretty typical. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 06:01:35 (EDT)
From: Petrou Email: None To: Jim Subject: Head- in- the- sand-Jim. Message: Wow,what an attitude. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 00:06:01 (EDT)
From: Brian Email: brian@ex-premie.org To: Wasapremie Subject: An honest appraisal Message: There are two ways of looking at what has happened. Perhaps it is true that God has used Maharaji to reach certain people. Or perhaps Maharaji is god. Fascinating statements from someone posting under the name Wasapremie! These are the only two possiblities!!? I guess we can throw out the he inherited the family cult at age 8 theory, huh? Or the he's not about to walk away from receiving money from the gullible theory? You walked away for a good reason. Be honest with yourself about it. You certainly aren't fooling anyone here with your self-deception. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 06:10:25 (EDT)
From: Petrou Email: None To: Brian Subject: Insults are not arguments. Message: ER...Brian,please don't stoop to insult its not doing your side any good. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 00:13:28 (EDT)
From: JW Email: None To: Wasapremie Subject: An honest appraisal Message: Dear Wasapremie: Whether anything you have done or anything you have come in contact with has made you closer to god, or your understanding of god (whatever you understand that to be), only you can say. In my experience, lots of things can give you more understanding of the way things really are. Going to prison may give you a better understanding of the value of freedom, serious illness might give you a better understanding of health, and a near-death experience might give you a better understanding of the value of life. But, the question is, are those things worth it? Do you really NEED to increase that understanding? Why? My involvement with Maharaji for 10 years resulted in my understanding a lot of things better, but it was NOT worth it. And there is a possibility you left out of your scenario which, in my experience, is the correct one. That is, that you might think you experience god through Maharaji because you really want to believe it's true and faith is a very powerful thing. One's own faith and desire to believe, along with the group 'high' one can get in a big group when Maharaji is on stage, can give you a powerful experience, but it isn't coming from HIM, it's coming from YOU and from the GROUP. This, I believe is what happened to me. I say this because I experienced it both ways. I truly believed Maharaji was god and I experienced him as that at some programs. I had faith he was god and I did my best not to doubt that. I devoted my entire life to him for about 10 years. But at one point I STOPPED having faith in him and I started questioning him and who he was because I was pretty miserable as a premie and because I saw him do and say some things that were pretty negative and challeneged my values. When I STOPPED having faith in him, I experienced zero, nothing, nada, when I was around him, even at a big program in the Miami Beach Convention Center, even in a darshan line. Years later I realized that the source of the experience I was having was my own faith, it wasn't him. And after I left, guess what? I still was happy, had peace inside me just like before, and I didn't feel I was lacking in anything I didn't already have. So, M could be god (but he now apparently says he ISN'T so I guess that's wrong) or maybe god could manifest for someone through him to someone who wanted it bad enough (but then, why Him?), or, more likely, you had an experience of 'god' because of your own faith and desire to have it. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 01:33:40 (EDT)
From: gumby Email: None To: Wasapremie Subject: An honest appraisal Message: Hi Wasapremie, I had some difficulty following your logic. You also seemed to forget one other possiblity in your analysis: There is a possibility, that m is a false teacher. Plain and simple. Take off the rose colored glasses. Caca Pasa. (Please excuse my french! :)) May Grace and God be multiplied within you. -gumby Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 02:31:57 (EDT)
From: you mean Email: None To: Wasapremie Subject: the nature of delusion Message: It is your point about the nature of god that is my big issue with prem rawat. If he wasnt playing god anymore and had stopped completely after his mid life crisis, then You could have chalked up his whole misdirection to him being a young person who was placed in a confusing role. And that he played it out boldly and wildly and that he figured that words created reality and that he was oblivious to the consequenses to others and he probably figured that 'going inside' was going to do something to us that would validate his lord of the universe insanity. Of course you can look back on the whole story from many less forgiving angles. However, He did NOT come out of his mid life analysis with any sort of graduation. He has since then CLEARLY decided to continue even more strongly in the 'I am god incarnate' delusion. What is wrong with this? By playing lord of the age and using his previous video and music archives, he has invaded 50 countries and has a small group of people totally believing that he is lord. As time marches on, more people will come in contact with selected video propaganda and after he is dead, zealots will grow and 'propagate' and the centuries of infighting for that crown will begin. Who will destroy that crown? We will be stuck with a group of people who will form a religion that will boldly proclain that the lord was here and he spread 'this knowledge' and the world was too preoccupied with the economy and maya to see. But the stories of the 'devotees' who were 'lucky enough' to be with him will start to be written and a flood of grass roots 'gospels of rawat' will flood the bookshelves in the new age shops. In many of those 50 countries. ect. ect. Many different complaints could be said about this, but MY main one is this: You saying he taught you about the nature of god. That is exactly the one area his effect is most evil. He not only does not teach you the nature of god, but he makes a strong case for a totally false and totally undermining view of god. He runs 180 degrees contrary to the common mans natural wisdom about the nature of god. He couldnt be farther from the freeing teachings of the nature of god that are tucked amidst the clutter in the bible. His views lead to tyranny of the people by the false guru of the moment. Whomever gets the crown. In four generations, ten generations, who would finally burn the thing? He steals the breath and paints a frankly, evil delusion on it and look how hard it is to escape the trap once you fall in. Being so flawed, and with docmentation, and more to come, we are given a real chance to help future people stay free of the hindu guru trap so deviously presented by the rawat family. It is vastly more important than you might now recognise. From now on people will be continuously presented with the claims that prem rawat is showing the way to god. The only hope innocent people have to sort out this out will be their limited input from the zealots and the video footage of US in the usa and england welcomeing him as lord during all those years. WE held him up as lord, THEY will see the footage and think we MUST have known. They wont hear about the consequences or our leaving. They wont hear about his behaviour. Look at student and bruce, makeing excuses for his well known rages at people. It removes ego! they claim. It is your limited concept of how the master should behave! they claim. REAL devotees are not affected by his fury! they claim. Think what you want, but I say we should recognise our responsibility and continue to get people to tell thier stories before they die and the true stories are lost. And whatever else is appropriate. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 04:53:48 (EDT)
From: Vacol Email: None To: everyone Subject: the nature of delusion Message: Premies, like devotees and followers for thousands of years ,have and do differ in their experiences and understandings regarding their teachers and the teachings.....from quite one extreme to another.....yet the greatness of the teachings lives on and inspires those who relate to them on whatever level. But...those ideas that have nothing to do with the big questions of life also evoke varied responses...from one extreme to another.....so ..my question is , 'what do you think in the long run has the most benificial influence on people. Despite the wars and various stupidities stemming from elitist groups ( I AM against all elitism....including the Maharaji and premie strain)would we have been better off without Jesus, Kabir, Krishnamurti, Aurobindo, and countless others like them including Maharaji? Were these souls of more or less use to humanity than Einstien(who I happen to admire also), marx, Edison, Newton and the like? Or are they all contributing in different ways? Mozart, Picasso, Mother Therasa, Guru Jimji, Master Rick, Sri JW, Pope Vacol, HRH Robyn, Swami Anon, Princess Katie.....we all have a part to play.....a contribution to make ...and each one of us WILL be critisised for our efforts....and the more we dare to really contribute ....the more names we will be called.....good names and bad names.....in fact it is the name of the game. Pope Vacol! Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 16:29:55 (EDT)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Vacol Subject: HRH Message: Dear Vacol, What does HRH mean, please advise. Thanks. Robyn Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 20:14:42 (EDT)
From: Vacol Email: None To: Robyn Subject: HRH Message: Hrh means 'HER Royal Highness'.....hope you take this light hearted banter lightly...as it was intended...Robyn.....by the way, I really admire your simple honesty and straightforwardness. Vacol Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Apr 17, 1998 at 10:07:26 (EDT)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Vacol Subject: HRH Message: Dear Vacol, Can't you tell us where the word Vacol comes from to? I've asked before and will not bother you about it again and will assume you can't, for whatever reason, tell us. Thanks for the explination, it is funny because when I was in college, I went from '89 - '93, 15 years after high school, one of my professors always called me Lady Di. I never knew why I really don't think there was much of a reason. I just enjoyed it because it had an endearing quality to it. Maybe I was royalty in a past life! Robyn Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 06:17:34 (EDT)
From: Petrou Email: None To: you mean Subject: the nature of delusion Message: What about the clear statements made by GMJ time and time again NOT to start another religion?How is it possible for you to ignore this and make all these wild claims? There's a lot of people around with very selective memories here and ya aint gettin away with it. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 05:54:21 (EDT)
From: Petrou Email: None To: Wasapremie Subject: An honest appraisal Message: Any of the great teachers represents God while they are alive. The Macrocosm is of course symbolised by the microcosmic equivalent.If the teacher fails another will take his place. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 08:32:17 (EDT)
From: Wasapremie Email: None To: Petrou Subject: An honest appraisal Message: Thank you Petrou. You have summarised what I believe could be the case. If there is a God and people are in need of knowing Him, then how can He even begin to make Himself known or understood? Suppose that there were no scriptures or religious teachers in the world. What format would people use to try to get close to God? It would be very difficult. Some people see God in the Pope. If people have an experience of being closer to God through being with or listening to the Pope then is that delusion or not? My point is that there has to be something to go on, something to connect to in this world, in order to begin to feel a closeness with God. Such a cataylist need not be the end but rather a means to an end. For example, how many people here believe there is a God? If you believe that God exists then what can you do to get closer to Him? Some people might say that they meditate to get closer to Him. These people may say that they are ex-premies and that they don't need Maharaji to help them experience God. Fine, I'll accept that because it is true. But, and it's a very big but, you are only doing meditation because Maharaji came to the west and spread his knowledge here. You only developed the practise of meditation because you listened to and followed Maharaji. Therefore, Maharaji has been a catalyst. He has been used by God somewhere along the way in order that you can feel closer to God. Please understand that I am not saying that you must be one of Maharaji's disciples. What I am saying is that God can work through anybody and indeed has to, in order to reach some people. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 12:29:50 (EDT)
From: JW Email: None To: Wasapremie Subject: An honest appraisal Message: First of all, I don't think people 'see god in the pope.' Having been raised a rather strict catholic, I can tell you that catholic teaching is that the pope is head of the church, and in certain circumstances is given the grace of god to make decisions on church teachings. He is a respected figure, but he is not god, nor is he supposed to impart an experience of god. People might say they see god in the pope, but like with Maharaji, that is projection and not reality. Now, if god really did want to manifest to someone, and if you believe god is an all powerful being, god could manifest anyway he wants to, right? But you can also be very deluded into thinking that some supposed 'manifestation of god' really is god, when it really isn't, it just seems that way because you want it so badly. This deception is especially likely when someone is going around the world being worshipped and claiming to be god, and claiming that he can show you god. Especially if you ONLY experience this person at programs up on stages and in other very controlled circumstances, you are unlikely to be able to test out if what he or she says is true. Maharaji has carefully orchestrated how he is presented to people and avoids contact with even if followers. Hence the deception that he is god or can manifest god for people can be retained. And, frankly, he has a vested interest in retaining the illusion of divinity, because then people worship him and give him lots of nice gifts, money and pay for his videos. It is true that some of us may have never gotten into meditation if we hadn't come in contact with Maharaji, but as others have pointed out, there are a lot of others teaching the very same techniques. Moreover, I have never thought meditation gave me an experience of god. Meditation did, in some circumstances, allow my mind to slow down enough that I did experience new sensations and a certain calmness and peace, but, frankly, I get the same experience running, rock climbing, sometimes during sex, and in some other activities that require a lot of concentration. The meditation is not necessary to have those experiences, and I don't believe those experiences are 'god' anyway. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 16:37:29 (EDT)
From: Memphis Belle Email: None To: JW Subject: I also was in the CROWD. Message: I read earlier that you experienced the 'high' at programs. It was easy for me to overlook this crowd high in the beginning of my venture with K, but now at the programs, I realize that I am not as happy as the rest of the crowd, or as excited. This is because I am looking for God, and realize that he's not in some convention center. I listen to M, but all I hear is that life is beautiful, life is life, and we have come hear to live life. Some how it is not fulfilling. Then I go to have lunch by myself, and feel 'low'. I see lots of people smiling and I smile back at them and wonder what I am doing there. My see-saw is always teetering. Someone wrote to me that there is no one sitting on the other side of the see-saw. I did not understand what this meant. If I am teetering, then there has to be something on the other side balancing me out. My unbalance is that I feel M and K is somehow wrong. I too was raised Catholic, but not strongly, didn't go to church for a long time, never confirmed Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 17:52:06 (EDT)
From: JW Email: None To: Memphis Belle Subject: I also was in the CROWD. Message: Memphis: I can really relate to your experience at programs. Towards the end of my involvement with M, I felt the same way. I recall one program in July, 1982 at the Miami Beach Convention Center. On the second night, M gave his usual satsang in which he said almost nothing, except to repeat about 'the beautiful place' and, as he said at that time, about the need to surrender completely to the perfect master. There were one or two new cute lines, or a new joke or something, but otherwise it was the same thing I had heard him say at least 100 times. It made no sense to me whatsoever, despite the fact that I had been following him for 9 years. I saw it as meaningless drivel that had no meaning whatsoever in my life. This, of course, alarmed me, because I had already expended so much of my life following him. I would have done about anything to MAKE it be TRUE. Then he came out in his 'naked-from-the-waist-up' krishna outfit and he danced to that song 'dance, dance, dance' and 'all night long' and that one that starts out 'when will I dance with you again.' Anyhow, I was already questioning the whole 'group high' syndrome and I was still living in the ashram, although I had been sent to San Francisco from Miami, where I had been around M a lot more and saw more directly what he was doing. These were the things that got me questioning in the first place. Anyhow, I recall I just couldn't relate when the premies got up on their chairs and screamed and waved their arms as M did this ridiculous dance and was so much playing into the hype of it all. Despite being indoctrinated about how attractive and beautiful M was, I found him ridiculous and repulsive. And I felt that I was surely the only person in the hall that felt that way. It was a pretty lonely feeling, being alone in that crowd, and I blamed myself (which premies are very good at doing) for not being devoted or surrendered enough to feel what the others were feeling, and what I used to feel. But what I found out later after being an ex-premie, was that there were a lot of other premies who felt the same way I did, but didn't think they could say it. It was only after they also became ex-premies that they told me this. You know Memphis, there is an awful lot of 'the emperor has no clothes' mentality at work in M's world. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 20:46:13 (EDT)
From: Memphis Belle Email: None To: JW Subject: I also was in the CROWD. Message: JW, I thank you for you message. It says a lot of how I feel in the crowd during an event. I wonder how many people there are who feel the same way right now? In a crowd of 20,000 people there could be at least 100. Who knows! I can't figure out why I keep going. Maybe it's because I have heard so many times, give K a fair chance. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 23:41:59 (EDT)
From: Selena Email: None To: Memphis Belle Subject: I also was in the CROWD. Message: MB and JW I was there and I too was repulsed and confused and hopelessly addicted. I half kept involved intill 97!!! think about that JW and be grateful you bailed, and think about it MB and ask yourself do you want to be like me? ick. I remember the same feelings, why are they all feeling this way? and Why can't I? What's wrong with me? Now I know, what's wrong with me is, I was strong enough to still use my logic and instinct and judgement. good for me! It won't score me any points with my old premie friends, but it's a small price to pay for clarity. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Apr 17, 1998 at 00:07:23 (EDT)
From: bill Email: None To: Selena Subject: I also was in the CROWD. Message: Its always good to read you Selena. I had forgotten how recent you were. Im a 97 graduate also. Its ggod the forum is here for us to make a better transition. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Apr 17, 1998 at 11:57:20 (EDT)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Memphis Belle Subject: Belle Message: Dear Belle, You can still get what there is to get from K without M so if that is all that is holding you back, break free. You have all of us for support. There are quite a few ex's from what I read that still value K and practice as I do. I think what JW said about the emperor's new clothes is VERY true. Robyn Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 20:12:23 (EDT)
From: VP Email: None To: Memphis Belle Subject: The teeter totter Message: Memphis Belle, That was I who said that about the teeter totter. I understand what you mean by teetering-one part of you feels one way and another part of you feels another way. I meant to say that you are alone in the deal. Maharaji is not there with you helping you make any decisions. We are alone in this life to a great extent. We have our friends and we have our family and we have God, but we don't have a magical human who knows our thoughts, desires, or makes us happy. That is what I meant. In the teeter totter ride of EV, you are sitting alone with your beliefs on one end and your doubts on the other. M is not riding with you. If Maharaji calls you tonight, then I reserve the right to change my mind about this... just kidding. VP Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 20:38:25 (EDT)
From: Memphis Belle Email: None To: VP Subject: The teeter totter Message: Oh, thank you for the message VP. I understand what you mean about being alone. It is difficult for me to understand everything about M or K. It is amazing to me that 20,000 people at a program, say in Long Beach or Miami, are actually all alone...But I hope God is in their hearts. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 21:02:30 (EDT)
From: VP Email: None To: Memphis Belle Subject: The teeter totter Message: Memphis Belle, Hi. When I am sitting in a football stadium or a concert, there are hundreds of people around me, so physically I am not alone. Friends of mine who have gone through labor assure me that we are alone in a lot of things:) I think it's very easy to find God. When I look at a beautiful sky or a firefly on a summer night, or hear a child laugh, or feel the sand under my feet at the beach, I feel God. When I see Maharaji, I see a guy who drove off to his honeymoon in a siver Mazurati. I see the pain of JW and of Jim and of my friend who killed himself even though he was supposed to have the peace and love of 'God's knowledge' There are a lot of other places to look for God, and they don't involve attending programs or church or anything else. My father-in-law likes to Fly fish and he says this is how he connects with God, being out of doors and in nature. Everyone has to find their own way. Good Luck to you in your search, VP Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 21:40:33 (EDT)
From: Wasapremie Email: None To: VP Subject: The teeter totter Message: I'd say that any feeling of being alone is a need to be closer to God. For with Him, nobody is alone. He who knows our deepest thoughts and our heart. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Apr 18, 1998 at 02:33:53 (EDT)
From: Katie Email: petkat@mail.trib.net To: Memphis Belle Subject: I also was in the CROWD. Message: Dear Belle - I always hated programs (festivals). I went to a bunch of them because we were 'supposed' to, but I didn't experience the group high that everyone else did. I always felt guilty about it too - I thought it was my fault that I wasn't experiencing what everyone else did. Just my experience (and now I wonder how many other people were feeling that way!) Katie Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 21:16:06 (EDT)
From: Vacol Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Forum content.Just a few Message: Just a few words about the quality of the content on this forum. Overall...I feel it is excellent. Anons' journies entry is well worth reading.....and back through past archival posts....there is some very good stuff.....the debate about debating in forum 2 between Paula and Jim I found very interesting. I think this forum attracts some high quality debate from some high quality souls. Well done to those who have and do work hard to keep this forum going and who improve it's infrastucture for us all . Thankyou....Vacol. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 13:17:09 (EDT)
From: Katie Email: petkat@mail.trib.net To: Vacol Subject: Forum content.Just a few Message: Dear Vacol - I am glad you are reading the archives and the 'Journeys' entries and are finding meaningful content there. I found it quite worthwhile to read these things when I first started posting on the site. You may also be interested in reading the 'Forum I' archives - they are from the beginning of the forum, and you can see the evolution of some of the posters thoughts and feelings. I am sure that you understand that there is naturally going to be a lot of chaff (and chat) along with the grain in any forum such as this. Robyn is currently compiling some of the posts from Forum II into a digest which may be easier for people to read. Thanks also on Brian's behalf for your compliment on the forum infrastructure (he doesn't get to read all the posts so I am not sure if he will see yours.) Katie Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 18:56:58 (EDT)
From: Scott T. Email: None To: Everyone Subject: DC Politics - off topic Message: Hi: I just thought I'd try to post the entire message that got cut of below, to see if I'd also get cut off starting a new thread. JW: There are two DCs: K Street and the 8th precinct are the archetypes. K Street is somewhat liberal politically, and VERY conservative culturally. (K Street is where all the law offices are located.) The 8th precinct (Anacostia) was represented by Wilhelmina Roloff until Barry put on his Dashiki and ran for council. Next stop, Mayor. Of course, since DC is 80 to 90% black the only contest is in the Democrat primary, or if an independent runs. Lightfoot refused to run against Barry as an independent, although he could have done well. I'm not sure Barry's election doesn't represent a certain Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 19:00:21 (EDT)
From: Scott T. Email: None To: Scott T. Subject: Brian, cutoff point Message: Brian: It looks like something in the server finds quote marks offensive. Will next try to see if single quotes case the same problem. Hang on. JW: There are two DCs: K Street and the 8th precinct are the archetypes. K Street is somewhat liberal politically, and VERY conservative culturally. (K Street is where all the law offices are located.) The 8th precinct (Anacostia) was represented by Wilhelmina Roloff until Barry put on his Dashiki and ran for council. Next stop, Mayor. Of course, since DC is 80 to 90% black the only contest is in the Democrat primary, or if an independent runs. Lightfoot refused to run against Barry as an independent, although he could have done well. I'm not sure Barry's election doesn't represent a certain 'traditionalism' if not conservatism, in the classic sense of deference toward icons of authority. Besides, he's rehabilitated (Hadn't you heard?) which makes him an attractive symbol to the large segment of the population also seeking rehabilitation. He's a 'role model.' -Scott Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 19:02:31 (EDT)
From: Brian, it's the double Email: None To: Scott T. Subject: quotes handler. Message: Brian: My message got cut off at the double quotes. Single quotes worked fine. -Scott Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 19:25:50 (EDT)
From: Brian Email: brian@ex-premie.org To: whoever Subject: It could be that, OR - Message: It could be the Off-Topic Post Handler kicking in. (snicker) Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 19:45:40 (EDT)
From: JW Email: None To: Scott T. Subject: Brian, cutoff point Message: Don't you think Barry's election represents the mistrust African Americans often have in the criminal justice system, believing that people can be easily framed? For example, I know Barry played up the fact that the FBI hired his ex-girlfriend (brought all the way out from California specifically to entrap him) to provide him with drugs? Isn't this basically the same scenario as in the O.J. Simpson trial and the differing views by blacks and whites? Voting for Barry was a chance to poke it into the eye of what is seen as an unfair institution. It now looks like Jerry Brown is going to get elected mayor of Oakland. He's squeaky clean, but it does seem strange that there won't be an African American mayor of that city, which, along with Berkeley, is probably the most integrated and diverse in the country. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 20:30:25 (EDT)
From: Scott T. Email: None To: JW Subject: Back to off topic topic Message: JW: I don't recall the issue of Barry's having been framed as being very big in the campaign. He had to pretty much admit he had done wrong in order to claim rehabilitation. You can't have it both ways. I think at trial that was a major issue, although I wasn't out here at the time. He was not convicted on the major charges, and served time only for two relatively minor charges, as I recall. To tell the truth I don't know what to think of Barry. He seems rather corrupt, but that's what goes on in this kind of city. Most of the damage he did occurred in the first administration, but squeaky clean Sharon Pratt Kelly only made things worse. I also don't know what to make of the city. It is a special case, unlike any other city in the US. It was a huge culture shock to arrive here from Oregon and have three murders within 2 blocks of where I lived within a two year period. Couldn't wait to get out to Northern Virginia. -Scott Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 18:39:19 (EDT)
From: Carole Email: cfjf@intrnet.net To: Everyone Subject: Questions Message: I am rather confused as to what this is all about. I found this site when looking for information about Maharaji and was curious as to what you had to say. I became interested in Maharaji through a good friend who always seemed centered and able to deal with everyday life. Over time she told me of Maharaji and I began attending videos and last October went to my first program. My experience has been mostly positive, I do not feel pressured to give money or to view this person as Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 19:21:47 (EDT)
From: Brian Email: brian@ex-premie.org To: Carole Subject: Clipped Questions Message: Sorry, Carole. I just updated the software and re-introduced a bug that caused your post to be clipped at the quote marks. It's fixed now, so you can re-post your questions. As for what this site is about, not everyone has had mostly positive experiences dealing with Maharaji. Many of us dealt with him for years. He has yet to deal with us. More people have gotten involved with him and left than have stayed, and they have reasons for that. This site, and this forum, is an expression of those reasons. If they are ones that you haven't encountered, then the information here will only warn you about we we experienced dealing with him and what you might yet experience. You will notice that the videos present a one-sided conversation. Why is that? Do you know of any other issue in life that is purely one-sided? Do what you want with Maharaji. Just be aware that you have been viewing pre-selected (and edited) videos of the Ex-Lord. You have to search the web and find this site to hear the un-edited and freely available side of the story. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 20:14:00 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Carole Subject: THEY BAGGED ANOTHER DOUBTER! Message: I've seen this happen before. Someone ventures out of premie cult control and starts to cross over to the sunny side of the street. Bam! Look, boys and girls, you've GOT to be careful. This Carole, whoever she was, was probably just another poor shlub, going to videos and having a 'positive experience'. (I wonder what that means, anyway. Is it that nobody mugged her? People smiled and talked about nice things? They served decent coffee? Too bad we'll never know.) Carole slips out a few questions and, POW!, poor thing. I suggest that no one even think of posting here using their real name, as Carole must have, because, as we see, they'll track you down and get you in seconds. No, of course I'm not 'Jim'. Do you think I'd get away with even finishing a sentence if I were? Poor Carole. Services begin Friday morning at 11:00 but hell if I'll go. You'd have to be crazy to show up there. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 20:21:00 (EDT)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Jim Subject: The EV conspiracy Message: Jim, I was thinking about the fact that no premie has ever answered my question about why they post here if they aren't supposed to disscuss M on the Net...I just had a weird paranoid thought. What if M sends them here to discredit us! This idea comes to soon after the ex conspiracy theory but has anyone ever considered it! I really am working tonight, I have my cloth golves on to keep the skin oils off the mylar and my jeweler's glasses and mechanical pencil so close I could touch them if I tried... Robyn Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 20:27:27 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Robyn Subject: The EV conspiracy Message: If YOU were Maharaji and YOU wanted to send premies here to discredit your critics, are these the ones you'd send? You gotta THINK, Robyn. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 20:41:00 (EDT)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Jim Subject: The EV conspiracy Message: Jim, You silly pervert you, that is just to distract us from their real purpose. Can you tell that is my lame attempt at a save. I just wanted to call you a silly pervert. Robyn Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 20:36:37 (EDT)
From: Scott T. Email: None To: Robyn Subject: The EV conspiracy Message: Robyn: What if M sends them here to discredit us! If that's the case... it's not working! -Scott Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 21:47:26 (EDT)
From: Memphis Belle Email: None To: Scott T. Subject: The EV conspiracy Message: I have heard M, last year at a program, say that he doesn't like the internet, that it is a waste of time, and that it doesn't really do anything. I didn't know about this site at that time but I wondered why he thought such a great technological invention to link the world was so boring to him. His great big jet doesn't seem to bother him, but it's technology is very superior. Maybe he should be flying a 2 propeller engine plane and hand dilivering mail, instead of flying a jet or posting e-mail (I can't imagine that he doesn't send e-mail to anyone!) He must use the internet, but that would completely contradict what he said at the program. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 06:39:19 (EDT)
From: Petrou Email: None To: Robyn Subject: The EV conspiracy Message: Er....here we go again!! I respect GMJ,I'm in contact with festival news,and guess what? No-one has ever even spoken about the Net and what you should do or not do.So you are right,you are paranoid.First you make up stuff about GMJ and the Net,then you proceed to believe it,and then to cap it all off you worry about it!! Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 08:16:25 (EDT)
From: Petrou Email: None To: Petrou Subject: The EV conspiracy Message: Wrong! According to Mili PAM wrote him a letter when he had a permie web site and asked him to shut it down. Ask him about it. Have a good day:) VP Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 08:26:46 (EDT)
From: VP Email: None To: Petrou Subject: That last post was mine Message: Whoops! Wrote the wrong name in that blank above. Please excuse,VP Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 09:32:43 (EDT)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Petrou Subject: EV conspiracy-Petrou Message: Dear Petrou, I was not serious when I mentioned this possibility. I do believe Belle when she says she heard M talk about thinking the Internet is bad but anything about M or EV, other than the fact that people may be getting hurt or used, is the least of my worries. Robyn Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 06:34:40 (EDT)
From: Petrou Email: None To: Jim Subject: Paranoia Plus Message: Jim,I think you need to 'see' someone. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 06:31:29 (EDT)
From: Petrou Email: None To: Carole Subject: ANSWERS Message: Dear Carole, Most of the people here actually think that other people believe their point of view!!We are supposed to believe that they are all former followers of GMJ with such a massive bone to pick that they have formed a whole Net Link to voice their views and alleged hurts.Let them carry on,it means little. There are loads of links like this about all sorts of Religions,again supposedly run by genuinely disaffected practiitoners:take it all with a very big grain of salt. Its easy to slander anyone or anything on the Net,that is until the laws change and the libel actions start flying. In the meantime don't whatever you do believe for a second any of the negative things you might read here.Most of it is sheer misinformed rubbish. I can assure you that GMJ is a great teacher with a great amount to offer any sincere person. Thankyou. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 17:45:17 (EDT)
From: Anon Email: None To: Carol Subject: ANSWERS!!! Message: Petrou wrote: Most of the people here actually think that other people believe their point of view!! We are supposed to believe that they are all former followers of GMJ with such a massive bone to pick that they have formed a whole Net Link to voice their views and alleged hurts.Let them carry on, it means little. There are loads of links like this about all sorts of Religions,again supposedly run by genuinely disaffected practiitoners:take it all with a very big grain of salt. Its easy to slander anyone or anything on the Net,that is until the laws change and the libel actions start flying. In the meantime don't whatever you do believe for a second any of the negative things you might read here.Most of it is sheer misinformed rubbish. I can assure you that GMJ is a great teacher with a great amount to offer any sincere person. Thankyou. Carole, Petrou is a bit condescending and paranoid isn't he? He obviously thinks you can't think for yourself. Here is what he may have more considerately written: Most of the people here don't actually care a hoot whether other people believe their point of view or not. They are indeed all former followers of GMJ with such massive bones to pick that they take part in open discussions at a Website, run by ex-premies, where they can voice their views and hurts. I can't do a thing to stop it even if I wanted! There are loads of links like this about all sorts of religions, run by genuinely disaffected practitoners: I take it all as a wholesome warning. It's easy to slander anyone or anything on the Net and even if the laws change and the libel actions start flying, Maharaji won't sue this lot because most of what is said is the truth. In the meantime I shall certainly not be turning a blind eye to any of the negative things I might read here. It is obviously mostly accurate information from people who are honestly relating their experiences and feelings. I don't need to assure you, or anyone that 'GMJ is a great teacher with a great amount to offer any sincere person etc' because I believe that people are best left to draw their own conclusions after considering both sides of the issue! Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Apr 17, 1998 at 09:01:19 (EDT)
From: John Email: None To: Anon Subject: Brilliant, Anon! Message: Thanks Anon for taking the trouble to deal with Petrou's unbelievable posts in such an amusing manner. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |