Ex-Premie.Org

Forum III Archive # 32

From: Dec 10, 1998

To: Dec 22, 1998

Page: 4 Of: 5



Jim -:- Happy New Breath, Asshole! -:- Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 00:38:22 (EST)
__Jim -:- Happy New Breath, Asshole! (2) -:- Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 00:40:18 (EST)
____Jim -:- Happy New Breath, Asshole! (3) -:- Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 00:47:38 (EST)
______Gail -:- Net cuts into Profit MJ -:- Tues, Dec 15, 1998 at 01:22:32 (EST)
______Guru Mariachi -:- Happy Fresh Breath! -:- Tues, Dec 15, 1998 at 01:54:46 (EST)
________Mike -:- Oh my Guru Mariachi -:- Tues, Dec 15, 1998 at 12:50:56 (EST)
____Gail -:- How come I didn't get in?? -:- Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 00:53:18 (EST)
______Orlando -:- because... -:- Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 09:34:10 (EST)
________Katie -:- because... -:- Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 10:59:45 (EST)
__________Gail -:- Orlando, the ignorant -:- Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 11:25:05 (EST)
____________Orlando -:- with all due respect... -:- Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 13:16:54 (EST)
______________gerry -:- with all due respect... -:- Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 13:22:41 (EST)
______________Katie -:- with all due respect... -:- Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 13:39:27 (EST)
________________Katie -:- P.S. to Orlando -:- Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 14:30:24 (EST)
__________________ham -:- P.S. to Orlando -:- Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 15:52:53 (EST)
________________Orlando -:- with all due respect... -:- Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 16:20:05 (EST)
__________________Mike -:- I'll deny it! -:- Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 16:28:31 (EST)
____________________Orlando -:- check this out -:- Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 16:55:10 (EST)
______________________Mike -:- check this out -:- Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 18:11:19 (EST)
__________________hamzen -:- with all due respect... -:- Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 16:32:44 (EST)
____________________Orlando -:- harm... -:- Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 16:40:52 (EST)
______________________hamzen -:- harm... -:- Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 17:13:01 (EST)
______________Mike -:- with all due respect... -:- Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 13:46:49 (EST)
________________Jim -:- I'd love to... -:- Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 20:29:47 (EST)
______________g's mom -:- I do not respect you Orlando -:- Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 14:07:30 (EST)
________________Mike -:- Good Job, g's mom! (nt) -:- Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 15:27:31 (EST)
________________Orlando -:- I do not respect you Orlando -:- Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 16:34:39 (EST)
__________________Mike -:- using your logic -:- Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 16:53:01 (EST)
____________________Orlando -:- using your logic -:- Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 16:59:55 (EST)
______________________Katie -:- oh, Orlando! -:- Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 17:17:53 (EST)
________________________Orlando -:- what is really sad -:- Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 17:27:35 (EST)
______________________Mike -:- using your logic -:- Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 18:26:32 (EST)
__________________Katie -:- going to events -:- Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 16:57:03 (EST)
____________________Orlando -:- going to events -:- Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 17:10:24 (EST)
__________________hamzen -:- What gives Orlando? -:- Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 17:03:26 (EST)
____________________Orlando -:- What gives Orlando? -:- Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 17:17:07 (EST)
______________________gerry -:- breaking my resolve... -:- Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 19:53:15 (EST)
______________________Jim -:- What gives Orlando? -:- Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 20:55:16 (EST)
______________________Jethro -:- What gives Orlando? -:- Tues, Dec 15, 1998 at 04:07:23 (EST)
__________________Gail C. MacDougall -:- IS ORLANDO A MYSOGYNIST? -:- Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 17:54:05 (EST)
____________________Orlando -:- for Gail -:- Tues, Dec 15, 1998 at 07:46:50 (EST)
______________________Gail -:- To Orlando--Here's looking at -:- Tues, Dec 15, 1998 at 11:40:11 (EST)
__________________Jim -:- I know! I know! -:- Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 20:45:00 (EST)
________________Helen -:- Gail's mom, you are... -:- Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 19:50:23 (EST)
__________________Katie -:- Oops Helen -:- Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 20:40:58 (EST)
____________________Helen -:- Oops Helen -:- Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 23:04:40 (EST)
______________Scott T. -:- due nuthin' -:- Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 16:51:59 (EST)
____Mike -:- Gardens talk? Rain Dances? -:- Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 12:17:09 (EST)
__barney -:- Happy New Breath, Asshole! -:- Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 00:41:19 (EST)
____Gail -:- To Leena, the Toronto monitor -:- Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 01:23:03 (EST)
__Helen -:- Happy New Breath, Asshole! -:- Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 20:02:18 (EST)

Gail -:- NEVER HAVE SO MANY DONE SO -:- Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 00:00:08 (EST)

Gail MacDougall -:- So much for unconditional love -:- Sun, Dec 13, 1998 at 23:21:48 (EST)
__Gail -:- I miss some of my friends -:- Sun, Dec 13, 1998 at 23:56:20 (EST)
__Brian -:- So much for unconditional love -:- Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 00:04:59 (EST)
__Jim -:- Perlman at the pearly gates -:- Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 00:57:23 (EST)
____barney -:- it was a brave thing to go -:- Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 01:22:30 (EST)
______Robyn -:- it was a brave thing to go -:- Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 04:18:48 (EST)
________barney -:- no credit for me on antz -:- Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 12:00:21 (EST)
______Katie -:- it was a brave thing to go -:- Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 11:08:31 (EST)
________Orlando -:- the garage -:- Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 16:49:12 (EST)
__________Mike -:- the garage -:- Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 18:38:23 (EST)
____________Scott T. -:- the legend of sleepy hollow -:- Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 21:45:47 (EST)
______________gerry -:- the legend of sleepy hollow -:- Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 22:15:00 (EST)
______________Helen -:- pkg garage nightmare -:- Wed, Dec 16, 1998 at 19:41:13 (EST)
__peter -:- So much for unconditional love -:- Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 01:21:57 (EST)
__Sir David -:- So much for unconditional love -:- Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 02:16:59 (EST)
____Gail -:- So much for unconditional love -:- Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 03:09:30 (EST)
______Scott T. -:- So much for unconditional love -:- Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 11:55:59 (EST)
______Saul -:- So much for unconditional love -:- Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 16:33:23 (EST)
________Gail -:- Why wont they let me into -:- Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 19:05:22 (EST)
____Robyn -:- So much for unconditional love -:- Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 04:12:26 (EST)
____Katie -:- So much for unconditional love -:- Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 11:17:34 (EST)
____Bobby -:- best wishes -:- Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 12:36:33 (EST)
______Katie -:- Hi Bobby -:- Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 12:43:57 (EST)
____Jim -:- So much for unconditional love -:- Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 21:47:35 (EST)
__Mike -:- I'm proud of you, Gail! -:- Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 18:50:11 (EST)

nitpicker -:- ELK critique -:- Sun, Dec 13, 1998 at 15:45:12 (EST)
__Jim -:- Okay, nitpicker, try Vicki -:- Sun, Dec 13, 1998 at 16:59:41 (EST)
____Helen -:- Bravo -:- Sun, Dec 13, 1998 at 19:40:57 (EST)
____Mike -:- Face full of tenderness? -:- Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 16:24:09 (EST)
__Scott T. -:- ELK critique -:- Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 00:43:50 (EST)
____Mike -:- Free fall! -:- Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 18:55:28 (EST)

Jim -:- Ex Initiator's freudian slip? -:- Sun, Dec 13, 1998 at 13:00:07 (EST)

Jim -:- The Master said 'Fuck Off'!! -:- Sun, Dec 13, 1998 at 11:51:35 (EST)
__hamzen -:- The Master said 'Fuck Off'!! -:- Sun, Dec 13, 1998 at 12:33:56 (EST)
____Jim -:- The Master said 'Fuck Off'!! -:- Sun, Dec 13, 1998 at 12:49:57 (EST)
______hamzen -:- The Master said 'Fuck Off'!! -:- Sun, Dec 13, 1998 at 13:18:06 (EST)

Brian -:- Take the test! -:- Sun, Dec 13, 1998 at 11:49:22 (EST)
__Jim -:- You expect me to believe that? -:- Sun, Dec 13, 1998 at 11:58:23 (EST)
____david m -:- I really cannot believe that!! -:- Sun, Dec 13, 1998 at 12:28:53 (EST)
__Katie -:- Take the test! -:- Sun, Dec 13, 1998 at 12:11:25 (EST)
__Scott T. -:- Take the test! -:- Sun, Dec 13, 1998 at 15:07:42 (EST)
____seymour -:- Take the test! -:- Sun, Dec 13, 1998 at 16:24:56 (EST)
______RT -:- I sent in the test! -:- Sun, Dec 13, 1998 at 16:40:26 (EST)
________seymour -:- I sent in the test! -:- Sun, Dec 13, 1998 at 16:48:24 (EST)
__________Brian -:- Seriously! -:- Sun, Dec 13, 1998 at 17:09:36 (EST)
____________Helen -:- HA! (nt) -:- Sun, Dec 13, 1998 at 19:54:20 (EST)
______Helen -:- Take the test! -:- Sun, Dec 13, 1998 at 19:52:27 (EST)
__TD -:- I'M GONNA BE AN INSTRUCTOR! -:- Wed, Dec 16, 1998 at 04:40:24 (EST)
____Helen -:- HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!(nt) -:- Wed, Dec 16, 1998 at 07:54:24 (EST)
______Jim -:- HeHeHeHeHe...HmHmHm :) (nt) -:- Wed, Dec 16, 1998 at 22:37:28 (EST)
____g's mom -:- everyone read TDs post!(nt) -:- Wed, Dec 16, 1998 at 14:09:17 (EST)
____Mike -:- Bwah ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha -:- Wed, Dec 16, 1998 at 15:12:48 (EST)

Jim -:- Hey, I'm a music critic! -:- Sun, Dec 13, 1998 at 11:48:24 (EST)
__Brian -:- Hey, I'm a music critic TOO! -:- Sun, Dec 13, 1998 at 12:11:20 (EST)
____Jim -:- Hey, I'm a music critic TOO! -:- Sun, Dec 13, 1998 at 12:20:08 (EST)
______Brian -:- Hey, I'm a music critic TOO! -:- Sun, Dec 13, 1998 at 16:54:17 (EST)
__Jerry -:- Ron Clearfield -:- Sun, Dec 13, 1998 at 22:31:49 (EST)
____srb -:- Ron Clearfield -:- Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 13:03:22 (EST)
____Jerry -:- Hey, Ron! -:- Tues, Dec 15, 1998 at 15:52:54 (EST)
__CD -:- A better set of links -:- Tues, Dec 15, 1998 at 03:13:24 (EST)
____Grey Beard -:- Who you callin' -:- Tues, Dec 15, 1998 at 12:56:38 (EST)

Brian -:- MJ's Secret Bugging of DLM -:- Sun, Dec 13, 1998 at 01:08:21 (EST)
__TD -:- MJ's Secret Bugging of DLM -:- Sun, Dec 13, 1998 at 04:20:56 (EST)
__007 -:- MJ's Secret Bugging of DLM -:- Sun, Dec 13, 1998 at 09:33:37 (EST)
__Saul -:- MJ's Secret Bugging of DLM !!! -:- Sun, Dec 13, 1998 at 10:29:49 (EST)
__Salah -:- WPC and all that stuff -:- Sun, Dec 13, 1998 at 10:30:00 (EST)
____Saul -:- WPC and all that stuff -:- Sun, Dec 13, 1998 at 10:38:12 (EST)
______Salah -:- WPC and all that stuff -:- Sun, Dec 13, 1998 at 10:47:49 (EST)
________Saul -:- Big Brother cares about us! -:- Sun, Dec 13, 1998 at 11:30:13 (EST)
__________Salah -:- Big Brother cares about us! -:- Sun, Dec 13, 1998 at 11:40:11 (EST)
____________Saul -:- Big Brother cares about us! -:- Sun, Dec 13, 1998 at 11:54:39 (EST)
______________Jim -:- He's gonna say 'yes' -:- Sun, Dec 13, 1998 at 12:03:45 (EST)
________________Salah -:- Jim...sorry u are wrong -:- Sun, Dec 13, 1998 at 12:20:46 (EST)
__________________Jim -:- Actually, YOU'RE wrong -:- Sun, Dec 13, 1998 at 12:36:21 (EST)
__________________Mike -:- I can't stand it! -:- Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 16:00:05 (EST)
________Jim -:- Yes, BE objective, Salah -:- Sun, Dec 13, 1998 at 11:34:02 (EST)
________Malibu Mole -:- WPC and all that stuff -:- Sun, Dec 13, 1998 at 17:08:47 (EST)
__________Salah -:- WPC and all that stuff -:- Sun, Dec 13, 1998 at 18:25:22 (EST)
____Katie -:- to Salah -:- Sun, Dec 13, 1998 at 12:06:47 (EST)
______Salah -:- to Salah -:- Sun, Dec 13, 1998 at 12:13:53 (EST)
________Katie -:- to Salah -:- Sun, Dec 13, 1998 at 12:36:21 (EST)
__________Salah -:- MJ Closed the WPC -:- Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 10:14:57 (EST)
____Edi Cramp -:- WPC and all that stuff -:- Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 22:30:29 (EST)
______Brian -:- WPC and all that stuff -:- Tues, Dec 15, 1998 at 00:11:32 (EST)
__Scott T. -:- MJ's Secret Bugging of DLM -:- Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 00:12:50 (EST)
____Saul -:- MJ's Secret Bugging of DLM -:- Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 14:04:14 (EST)
____Katie -:- No regrets? -:- Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 14:24:15 (EST)
______Edi Cramp -:- No regrets? -:- Tues, Dec 15, 1998 at 18:32:44 (EST)

Anon Anand -:- Print this out: 41 Doubts -:- Sat, Dec 12, 1998 at 21:36:43 (EST)
__seymour -:- Print this out: 41 Doubts -:- Sun, Dec 13, 1998 at 16:30:46 (EST)
__TD -:- Print this out: 41 Doubts -:- Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 04:20:14 (EST)

Gail MacDougall -:- I got nvited to Satellite rap -:- Sat, Dec 12, 1998 at 17:49:23 (EST)
__nigel -:- Gail - Missing title letter... -:- Sat, Dec 12, 1998 at 18:41:56 (EST)
____Sir David -:- Gail - Missing title letter... -:- Sat, Dec 12, 1998 at 21:35:40 (EST)
______gerry -:- Gail - Missing title letter... -:- Sat, Dec 12, 1998 at 22:30:47 (EST)
__Jim -:- knocking on heaven's door -:- Sat, Dec 12, 1998 at 22:05:00 (EST)
____Barney -:- knocking on heaven's door -:- Sun, Dec 13, 1998 at 14:41:32 (EST)

Brian -:- Reigate Blueprints -:- Sat, Dec 12, 1998 at 14:27:35 (EST)
__Jim -:- The what?? -:- Sat, Dec 12, 1998 at 15:23:55 (EST)
__Barney -:- Mata Ji was right - $$$ -:- Sat, Dec 12, 1998 at 16:10:53 (EST)
__Ed Cramp -:- Reigate Blueprints -:- Sat, Dec 12, 1998 at 16:19:42 (EST)
____Brian -:- Reigate Blueprints -:- Sat, Dec 12, 1998 at 23:40:19 (EST)
__nigel -:- I remember the lake... -:- Sat, Dec 12, 1998 at 19:38:27 (EST)
____Sir David -:- I remember the lake... -:- Sat, Dec 12, 1998 at 21:56:24 (EST)

Gail -:- Christmas Ornaments for MJ's -:- Fri, Dec 11, 1998 at 22:39:41 (EST)
__Helen -:- Christmas Ornaments for MJ's -:- Fri, Dec 11, 1998 at 23:45:33 (EST)
____srb -:- Christmas Ornaments for MJ's -:- Sat, Dec 12, 1998 at 04:29:11 (EST)
______Helen -:- Christmas Ornaments for MJ's -:- Sat, Dec 12, 1998 at 09:04:59 (EST)
________gerry -:- Was it you Helen... -:- Sat, Dec 12, 1998 at 12:58:43 (EST)
__________Helen -:- Was it you Helen... -:- Sat, Dec 12, 1998 at 15:36:07 (EST)
__TD -:- Christmas Ornaments for MJ's -:- Sat, Dec 12, 1998 at 08:05:01 (EST)
____Helen -:- HA! -:- Sat, Dec 12, 1998 at 09:01:51 (EST)
__Nimrod -:- Christmas Ornaments for MJ's -:- Sun, Dec 13, 1998 at 19:04:12 (EST)
____Gail -:- Christmas Ornaments for MJ's -:- Sun, Dec 13, 1998 at 23:30:24 (EST)
__Mike -:- What was it made of? -:- Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 16:47:50 (EST)
____Gail -:- What was it made of? -:- Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 19:23:33 (EST)


Date: Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 00:38:22 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Happy New Breath, Asshole!
Message:
Here's Jonathan Cainer, dull-bladed censor and shameless astrologer, summarizing what Gail missed:

''Happy new breath, new day, new year'

It is early in the morning. Surprisingly so. I can't ever remember being in a hall, awaiting Maharaji's arrival on stage at an hour quite as uncivilised as this. Strangely enough though, I don't feel tired. Nor, it would seem, does anybody else. The excitement here in Pasadena is exceptionally electric. We are all keenly aware that history is in the making. A clock on the video screen counts down the minutes to the moment when Maharaji will speak live, for the first time ever, to the entire globe.

['The entire globe'? That's a bit much, Johnny. It'd be like me saying I was talking to the entire Kingdom of Britain if I called you up one day and asked once again how you feel about cutting and pasting peoples' stories as if all that mattered was your cult's current sensitivities. The only thing unique about today is that Maharaji's found a new way to fleece a whole lot of people and never have to leave either Marolyn or Monica for more than a few hours. Think about it. - ed.]

He's never done anything quite like this before, and we have never been part of such an instant, immediate enterprise. How amazing! A total audience of 77,000 people at 150 venues in 50 countries.

...I jotted down these thoughts, just before the event took place. It is over now but, in a funny kind of way, it has only just begun.

[Now that IS poetic! Did you write that yourself?

Despite the malfunctioning microphone, we will remember this event as a roaring success. Already it's clear there are going to be many more like this.

I made some notes while Maharaji was speaking today and have spent the day writing them up. Please be aware that they are not an official transcript of the event, merely my own personal recollections of some of the things he said. Jonathan Cainer reports.

TIME IS 'OF THE ESSENCE'
I have a lot of seconds in my life. I have quite a lot of minutes too. I don't, though, have so many hours and I have far less days. Fewer than that are the weeks, fewer than that are the months and fewer still are decades. But how many lifetimes do I have? One. Just one. When it comes to a lifetime one is all I have. Do I comprehend that? Do I feel an urgency to be fulfilled? I have to look at every moment that comes, to see how it brings with it the possibility of being fulfilled.

If I can't comprehend the importance of my existence, how I can I ever experience a sense of gratitude? Because gratitude is not a philosophy, it's real. ['Gratitude', my friend, is a buzzword you rely on beyond all reason simply because you have nothing really to talk about. Nothing. So you take a word here, a word there, and bend them all out of shape like silly putty. Then you stick the silly putty words to your face and make funny faces for the people. Which people? The ones who paid a whole lot of money to watch you make an idiot of yourself. See, something inside of them actually DESPISES you. They actually love the idea that you're afraid of your own shadow. Secretly, they WANT you to fall so they can finally get free of your garbage philosophy once and for all. When your day comes, Maharaji, the greatest celebration will be amongst your followers. As they start to breathe easy again, they'll finally experience the 'gratitude' you kept trying to shove down their throats. Amtext, anyone?]

THE GLUE OF UNDERSTANDING
What is understanding? It is the thin layer of glue that joins information to knowledge. You can have a kitchen full of food and bookshelves full of recipes but if you don't understand how to cook, it's not going to do you much good.

This world is full of information but there's very little understanding. [The word 'understanding' has now been misappropriated by this fat little cult leader. No one knows what it's supposed to mean anymore. Perfectly good word, dashed beyond recognition. Now THAT's sad.]

What are you looking for? What do you need? People will make all kinds of suggestions but what do you really need, now? What do you need today?

You need that understanding. You need to know what it means to be alive right now. It's beautiful. With that understanding there is a chance to convert every breath into something meaningful.

HOME ALONE
This is your glory, this is your moment. This is your chance to accept something in your life which actually comes from within you.

See, up until now, everything you accept is somebody else's idea, somebody else's philosophy, somebody else's doctrine. [
'Now, it's time for you to accept mine and this one, dear suckers, will really fuck you up.' ]

It is time to accept a doctrine that comes from your heart. It is time to accept the love of this existence. It is time to accept the joy of this heart. It is time. [You are getting sleepy...]

WEAVING A WAY
Every day, I need to know. Every day, I need to understand. Every day, I need to be reminded. Every day, I need to be told that, yes, in my heart is everything that I am looking for.

Every day, I need to be reminded to be careful. Life is like a rug. The little knots are made out of the seconds and the minutes and the hours. I need to be reminded: 'Don't snag it on a nail, lest it will come undone.'

That's the purpose of an event like this.

A CAPITAL EXPERIENCE
A lot of people ask me: 'What is Knowledge? What do you mean when you use the word, 'knowledge'?' For my purposes, I like to make a distinction between Knowledge with a big 'K' and Knowledge with a little 'k.' The little k, in my view, stands for know-how - how to drive a car, wind a watch or cook a meal. The big K is for a different kind of Knowledge. It's a big K for a big 'L.' The big L is Life. To understand Life with a capital L you need Knowledge with a capital K.

That kind of Knowledge, is simple. Simple enough to put me in touch with what is within me. And that's a gift.

People find it hard to understand an explanation that's as simple as this. They say: 'Come on, let's have a little philosophy here. Aren't you going to talk about hell and heaven? Aren't you going to say something juicy?'

Hey. Just stop a minute. If that's the kind of juice you need, stop a minute. Look at this life. This life is more juicy than you can possibly imagine. it's more spicy than any spice, and it is more sweet than any honey on the face of this earth. And the best thing of all about this life is... you have it.

Rise to the challenge, rise to the occasion of existence.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 00:40:18 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Happy New Breath, Asshole! (2)
Message:
THE GARDEN OF LIFE

[WARNING! - DO NOT READ THE FOLLOWING STORY. IT'S BORING! IT'S SO BORING NO AMOUNT OF BREATHING CAN SAVE IT. BETTER OFF SKIPPING THIS NEXT SECTION ALTOGETHER. TRUST ME (I have Knowledge, after all).]

Become a part of that most beautiful garden of life. Gardens are beautiful. Gardens are amazing. You know why? Because they assimilate.

There is the garden, there are the flowers, there are the rocks, the trees, the grass. Now, how far away do you think the clouds are? Two thousand feet? Three thousand feet? Guess what? A garden will assimilate the clouds. It will make them a part of its own.

The raindrops - they come, they dance. Little drops on the trees. The garden says: 'Come on. Become a part of me.'

What does wind have to do with a garden? When the wind blows and the trees shimmer, that garden just takes the wind and it makes it a part of itself.

The little butterfly comes looking for food. And the garden says: 'You're welcome. Come on. Be a part of me.'

This life is a garden. Can I be a part of that garden? Can I just relax and be assimilated into that simplicity so my understanding can be real?

I don't want to wake up in the morning and go: 'What is wrong?' I want to wake up and say: 'I know what is right.'

I don't want to stand somewhere and say: 'I don't have anything.'

I just want to take a breath and say: 'I know what I've got.'

To me, the ability to do that is more precious than anything else in this world.

BORING
Some people claim to get bored. They say they have nothing to do. No matter what's happening, they just say: 'Oh, it's so boring.'

Aren't they alive?

How can the living ever be bored? How can they have nothing to do?

The most exciting, most wonderful miracle takes place within you - every moment.

If you are bored, you need a lesson in how to appreciate simplicity.

If there is nothing else to enjoy, then enjoy every breath that comes into you. If nothing else is there to enjoy, then enjoy the feeling that is within you.
If there is nothing to say, then know that in silence, everything is spoken. When you feel no feeling, then know that the most glorious feeling is waiting for you.

This is the gift of life. The hardest thing about it is to recognise how simple it is!

ACKNOWLEDGING A DIFFERENT TECHNOLOGY
Technology will come and go. Remember when they first invented the TV remote control? We thought is was incredible. I remember this one, early remote control that made a really loud noise when you clicked it. It used static electricity to make the TV change channels. One day, I realised I could use my chair to produce the same effect. It was a revolving chair and if I made it rotate fast enough, it changed the channel on the TV. So, that's what I started doing. It became a game. Swing the chair and see if you can get the right channel to come on! [Ah yes! The cutesy, cutesy, baby with the superman comic routine. Bet the premies really guffawed at this one, oh most sublime of personalities, oh Kim Il Jung of Malibu. ]

I'm not here to pass judgement on technology. In fact, I'm not here to pass judgement on anybody or anything. [Then quit doing it! Really, all I hear is how no one has the right focus. We're all either too intellectual, antagonistic, unmotivated, ungrateful... on and on and on. And you're not here to pass judgement? What is this? A cult or something? I feel like Alice through the looking glass. Maharaji, you're fucking with my head, bud. Knock it off!] I am here simply to point out that each one of us has the potential ability to be content and I think we should get on with the business of turning that possibility into a reality.

We need to be content but instead, we procrastinate. Every day, more people come up with more books, more ideas, more philosophies. So why is it that, no matter how much new stuff people come up with, the thirst for contentment remains the same?

That thirst will never change. Your yearning to be content will not change because it is the fundamental force that governs your existence. It's a basic, natural need and it's the most crucial need of all. To address that need, there has to be an inner technology. It exists - and it is the neatest technology on the face of this earth. It also happens to be the oldest technology. It's has always been around and it has always been sought - and will always be available to those who seek it.

It is beautiful to see that there are people who still seek it.

A HOPE... AND A PRAYER
I want to make one thing very clear. I HOPE that there are more satellite events like this yet I PRAY that the interaction of physically being able to go to a country and speak live, in front people who seek inspiration, is never, ever taken away from me.

My hope is that we will have more of these satellite events. That's my hope. If it doesn't happen, I may be a little disappointed but it's no big deal. I've been disappointed before.

[You bet you have, you sad little puppy! You were disappointed to learn that the whole world wasn't going to worship you just because your mummy and your daddy thought it was a great idea. Plus, you lost me. That's gotta sting a bit, no? Come on, Maharaji, admit it -- you mioss me!]

It's no big issue. But my prayer is that I will always be able to go to places and see people and look at their eyes. Because that level of personal contact is important. It's especially important because of the claims I make. I need to be able to look into your eyes and you need to be able to look into mine so that you can know that what I say is from my heart to your heart. I don't just hope that this never changes. I pray that it never changes.

A MAGIC BEYOND MEASURE
Technology or no technology, this experience is the same. This event today is very exciting. But what I want in my life is to be able to bring that joy, that happiness, to as many people as I can, however I can. My smallest Knowledge session this year involved just one person. My largest one was for over 4,000 people. It doesn't make any difference. The session for 4,000 was just as sweet as the session for one. This is not about numbers, it is about human beings. It is about us.

A HAPPY NEW DAY
People are really getting into the holiday season. They can't wait to wish one another a happy new year. But if you wish someone a happy new year, you've got to wait for a whole 12 months to find out if it was happy or not. People don't go up to each other and say: 'You were wrong. You wished me a happy new year, please, don't do that again. The last time you wished, it was a disaster.' We just say these things. Perhaps what we really ought to be saying is that we are alive. You are alive and I am alive and this is our celebration.

Because, if you celebrate life, it will be a happy new day every time you wake up.

Each breath can be a happy new breath? So, when are we going to celebrate those things that mean everything to us? Why do we have to wait till a disaster happens before we wake up and go: 'Wow. I'm alive' Why does it have to take such a big alarm bell? It shouldn't. It needn't take that. All it needs to take is a willingness to acknowledge the beauty of this life. If you have this Knowledge, you can focus on what you know. You don't have to speculate. You don't have to guess - or to second guess - what your next moment is going to bring. You can just enjoy the moment you're experiencing and give thanks for it. You can appreciate the breath you have just taken instead of worrying about what the next one is going to bring.
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Date: Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 00:47:38 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Happy New Breath, Asshole! (3)
Message:
THE COUNTRY OF THE HEART
We see ourselves as living in this country or that country. We talk about the society we belong to or the group of people we relate to... yet we are all individuals. Each of us is a country, a kingdom, a little civilisation with its own history and its own identity.

So, in your country (and I don't mean your physical country) is it peaceful? Or do wars erupt? What kind of a ruler are you? In your country, in your kingdom, is everyone happy? Or, do you just sit around feeling grumpy and dismissive and suspicious?

Are you at war? Are your soldiers, the precious troops of time, being sacrificed?

If so, I say: 'End the war.' And live in peace.

Personally speaking, I want to live in peace. But I also know that, if I want to have this peace, I need to renew my commitment to it every single day. Because, within my inner country, there are forces that lurk, forces that would just love to see war break out again! I have to identify those forces and tell them: 'Cool it. I'm not interested in the war. I am interested only in establishing peace.'

For a lot of people, it doesn't seem to be like that. It seems as if they're hardly even interested in living at peace. It is as if they're constantly saying: 'I'm ready to go to war. Give me a good reason and let's do it, let's start a new fight.'

PEACE IN OUR TIME
Me? I don't want that. I want peace. I want to give peace a chance.

It is the only thing that has not been given a chance. Everything else has been tried.

[Maharaji as Lennon? I'm getting sick.]

That peace though, has to be real. It doesn't need to be the kind of peace that just lasts two days and then, BAM! Some people say they want peace but it seems they only want the break so they can get better at fighting when they go back to war.

That's not the kind of peace that I need. I need peace, so that I can find a way to enjoy even more peace.

But where is that peace going to come from? Do I have to struggle for it, as if I were trying to dig up a chunk of granite? No. Peace is in my heart. It is in your heart too. It is in the heart of every human being. You don't have to create it, you just have to unveil it... because it already exists.

So be true. Be true to this heart. Be true to this breath. Be true to this life. Be true to this existence. Enjoy the gift of life. Happy new day. Happy new breath. Happy new week, new month, new year. Happy, happy lifetime to all of you. To all of you.'
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Date: Tues, Dec 15, 1998 at 01:22:32 (EST)
From: Gail
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Net cuts into Profit MJ
Message:
I was talking to my daughter about how MJ must be burned about his latest and greatest speech being on the net hours after he gave his speech. This will cut into his profits. How will he sell the transcript in the next magazine or flog this video.

She replied, 'Gee, Mum. I don't don't see why he'd mind. He's been in business a long time.'

I guess even slaves deserve a break at Christmas
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Date: Tues, Dec 15, 1998 at 01:54:46 (EST)
From: Guru Mariachi
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Happy Fresh Breath!
Message:
O, Mi Amores!
Your Guru Mariachi hopes that this breath is as important to you as this life. When you go inside to your little inner country, whether it be Jimlandia, or Katiecountry, or Robynia, the Painted Desert of Mike, Gerryania, the Duchy of Sir David, the outer reaches of the Republic of SRB, or even the dark, scary place known as Keithland, what kind of ruler are you? Are you the kind of ruler who brushes regularly, and even flosses, so that every precious breath you take is a delight to all around, or are you a bad ruler, eating onions and garlic-naan, whose every exhalation is a frightening malodorous fog? Those who practise this conocimiento, those who have realised the importance of the Tantric Tic-tac, those who are CERTain of the altoids, those who understand the sugarless chewing gum, these are the ones who know the Kingdom of Heaven. To them everyone says, 'Happy Fresh Breath!'
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Date: Tues, Dec 15, 1998 at 12:50:56 (EST)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Guru Mariachi
Subject: Oh my Guru Mariachi
Message:
GM: Your wisdom is boundless, oh great ONE! I promise, I will never 'sen-sen' again! Your holy example has made me sen-less, once more.
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Date: Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 00:53:18 (EST)
From: Gail
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: How come I didn't get in??
Message:
MJ says: I'm not here to pass judgement on technology. In fact, I'm not here to pass judgement on anybody or anything.

That's right--he's not passing judgment. That's because he has premies like Michael Duhaney and Alex Perlman to do it for him. We must not let Gail into the program in case she posts one word of this on the net. Meanwhile, it looks like we got the whole transcript.

This is a lot better than I could have done. This guy was allowed to take notes. I wouldn't have been permitted to do so. Ah well, he looks better in the LOTU video than he would have today.

By the way, what is the difference betweeen watching a video and watching a live broadcast. They both look like videos, don't they?
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Date: Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 09:34:10 (EST)
From: Orlando
Email: None
To: Gail
Subject: because...
Message:
why should you have been allowed in?

PS: difference between videos and live broadcast: no editing!
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Date: Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 10:59:45 (EST)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Orlando
Subject: because...
Message:
Orlando, you asked Gail:
why should you have been allowed in?

Because Maharaji SAYS the door is always open. This obviously isn't true. It's only open for some people. I think she was treated badly, and the way she was treated reflects poorly on Maharaji. I wonder what Maharaji thinks about this.
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Date: Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 11:25:05 (EST)
From: Gail
Email: None
To: Orlando
Subject: Orlando, the ignorant
Message:
I am still on their mailing list (both Visions-California and EV-Montreal). They invited me to come, you dummy. I drove for 2.5 hours to get there.

When was the last time you invited someone over and turned him/her away at the door.

I have a big beef with MJ and the cult, not these individuals. ONe of the people who turned me away still owes me $1 800 on a credit card I lent him for a trip to Australia. Wake up, asshole. You make me sick.
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Date: Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 13:16:54 (EST)
From: Orlando
Email: None
To: Gail, Katie
Subject: with all due respect...
Message:
Katie, you say:

'what would Maharaji think of this'

this is unbelievable...do you actually think that people who have claimed loud and clear that they would no anything to hurt him are actually welcomed to his programs...???? (I mean, Gail wrote once: i wish he would drop dead!)

i don't think the 'open door' is for people who want to harm him or his premies....sorry
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Date: Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 13:22:41 (EST)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Orlando
Subject: with all due respect...
Message:
which is about zero...Orlando how about answering my questions about how long you've been in this country and why English is not your primary language, since you are hispanic and played the race card on Mike.

Otherwise I will have to conclude you are a liar and a weasel.
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Date: Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 13:39:27 (EST)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Orlando
Subject: with all due respect...
Message:
Dear Orlando

I don't think Gail wants to harm Maharaji or his premies - sheesh! (Saying you wish someone would drop dead doesn't mean you're going to try and kill them - it means you're angry.) Gail even drove another premie to the program, and that guy obviously wasn't afraid of her. The guys at the door weren't afraid of her. The whole thing just reeks of paranoia to me - and the reason I said 'I wonder what Maharaji thinks of this?' was because I wondered if banning Gail was done with his approval. Apparently you think he would have approved of it.

If things like this are going to happen, then M should stop saying that there is an 'open door'. I have corresponded at length with several premies who have encouraged me to watch videos, to go and see M, and so forth. Apparently these people, who are very kind and DO believe in an 'open door', don't realize that I wouldn't be allowed into an event in the first place.
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Date: Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 14:30:24 (EST)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Orlando
Subject: P.S. to Orlando
Message:
P.S. to Orlando (with all due respect):
You have come down on Gail really hard on this forum - you seem to pick her, out of all of us, for criticism. Any particular reason for this? Do you know her, by chance? I'm just curious, because your reaction seems out of proportion to the things she says.
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Date: Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 15:52:53 (EST)
From: ham
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: P.S. to Orlando
Message:
Indeed Katie, the only rational response to Orlando's sad posts.(I reckon either a pass was made sometime, and Gail with commendable common-sense turned it down, or else o looked up to Gail as a role-model premie and is now distraught at what she's become. Don't worry, O, you will get over it.)

But because you're so polite you forget to add, 'orlando, you're an obnoxious little snot with a SERIOUS attitude problem, piss off, and while you're about it, try some therapy, some people say it can help, yes even someone like you, supposedly.
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Date: Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 16:20:05 (EST)
From: Orlando
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: with all due respect...
Message:
Katie,
first, i am not speaking on M.'s behalf here. i am just giving my own opinion...
second, of course, i do not believe that Gail would want to harm anyone personnally.
but there ARE people on this site who do REALLY WANT to harm M. and/or premies. don't try to deny this.
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Date: Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 16:28:31 (EST)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Orlando
Subject: I'll deny it!
Message:
Orlando: On what FACTS do you base your opinion of people here. DIRECT QUOTES from posts are the ONLY acceptable evidence. Read my post below.... YOU will note that the only threateners here are/have been the so-called premies. Look at the archives!

I DENY your ascertions! Read the archives and then come back with a FULL apology for your unfounded remarks.
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Date: Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 16:55:10 (EST)
From: Orlando
Email: None
To: Mike
Subject: check this out
Message:
Mike please read my definition of 'harm' and tell me my remark is unfounded!

PS: what is this question you keep refering to? ...something about racial card, etc...???
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Date: Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 18:11:19 (EST)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Orlando
Subject: check this out
Message:
Orlando: It isn't me asking that question, it's gerry. Second, it was obvious to me that you were referring to real physical harm, not the weaker definitions listed under your post. Your responses were WAY TOO STRONG to indicate a weaker definition than true physical harm. The fact is, no one here (that I know) would ever attempt physical harm against M, even NOW! The only physical threats made or intimated here have come from premies and premies ONLY! That is an easily supported fact. Brian has had to delete a number of threatening posts from premies, just since 'I've' been here. It's truely amazing! But, I haven't seen him remove a single post from ex's for THAT reason, because there haven't been any.

If, however, you insist that what you meant by 'harm' was questioning his past, questioning his claims and questioning the usefulness of what he supposedly teaches, then you may be right. Remember though, HE WASN'T PHYSICALLY PRESENT for questions to be asked. In fact, it appears that he has succeeded in convincing premies that a televised broadcast is as good as physical presence. This will further isolate him from those nagging little questions. If he's isolated, why do you care if an ex wants to watch the performance or take notes of what he says? Hey, if he's telling the truth, then quotes should do no harm, whatsoever. In fact, if he were telling the real truth, we would actually be some of his best 'propagaters,' now wouldn't we? Heck, we quote him all of the time here. The only reason that he fears us and you fear us, is that his quotes betray him and his ultimate purpose (to delude as many people as he can, so that he can satisfy his, apparently, infinite materialistic desires). By default, his quotes betray you and your belief system, too. That is an unfortunate side effect of unravelling the truth from this trail of lies.

So, why is he hiding behind a video? Why couldn't Gail go watch the video? What was SO secret that Gail wouldn't be allowed to quietly watch the video, just like everyone else there? I can understand removing someone from the showplace if they are a disruptive influence (e.g. making noise, rude remarks, etc). I cannot understand it, if they are quietly watching.
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Date: Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 16:32:44 (EST)
From: hamzen
Email: None
To: Orlando
Subject: with all due respect...
Message:
Could you define what you mean by 'harm'?
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Date: Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 16:40:52 (EST)
From: Orlando
Email: None
To: hamzen
Subject: harm...
Message:
'harm' (Webster):
that which inflicts injury or loss
offense against morality
wrong
to damage; hurt
blemish, detriment, impairment, abuse
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Date: Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 17:13:01 (EST)
From: hamzen
Email: None
To: Orlando
Subject: harm...
Message:
So could you now explain which of these definitions fits re harm & gm here, and why in a democracy that is out of order?

Have you read any of the numerous personal testimonies of damage experienced from the glorious gentle touch of the divine gm?
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Date: Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 13:46:49 (EST)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Orlando
Subject: with all due respect...
Message:
Orlando: You are putting words in our mouths! There is a HUGE difference between wishing someone would 'drop dead' and a 'threat' to do harm, wouldn't you say? The ONLY PEOPLE that have threatened anyone's safety here, have been the PREMIES threatening US!!! Check the archives... It's a FACT! The posts don't lie. The ex's here have NEVER threatened any premie nor M, himself. The fact that they want to expose lies, isn't a threat to anyone's physical safety. As much as I dislike M, if I saw him on the street, he would be perfectly safe. I may ask him some embarrassing questions, but he would be safe. I think I'm safe in saying that this is the general and overall sentiment of those ex's that post here.

SOOOOOO, YES I would EXPECT M's minions to let Gail into any program, if they weren't a CULT! Only someone with something to hide excludes other people.
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Date: Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 20:29:47 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Mike
Subject: I'd love to...
Message:
Yes, Orlando, I'd love to harm him. No question about it.

Here's what I'd like to do:

1) Force him to deal with his past. Publicly. I think that will be an extremely difficult exercise, traumatic and shameful. Yes, I'd love to put him through that ... WITHOUT an anaesthetic.

2) Drive a real crowbar in his ongoing scam. I'd love to see him tossed off his perch. No more guru. Sure, he can stay in the country, open a restaurant or something. But he can't give out any fliers there. Just chapatis. This should REALLY hurt him where it counts, in his pocketbook.

That's about it. Everything else is a sub-harm. Now, what do you think? Am I dangerous to him? How? What ammunition do I have? A bunch of lies? Fine, sue me.
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Date: Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 14:07:30 (EST)
From: g's mom
Email: None
To: Orlando
Subject: I do not respect you Orlando
Message:
for implying that Gail is the sort of person who would harm another. I will borrow from the Guru here....your statement is like a mirror. Once you are out of the cult and after you stop thinking like a premie you get back some wierd things....principles, ethics, morals......

let me spell this out.....perhaps you can use the fact that you think that guy is LOTU to justify any action. An ex cannot use the fact that he is a charlatan to justify any action. I think the guru is evil. I think he is a bloated parasite who feeds off of the premies. I do not think this would justify anyone harming him physically. There are tons of bad people walking around in the world. I think OJ Simpson is a murderer; should someone take justice into his own hands and go out and give him the death penalty? No, it would be wrong. And no one should do something like that to your LOTU either. His evil does not justify becoming evil yourself. Being a pain in the ___ and exposing him I think is justified. But that is entirely different.

Does this make sense. I know your brain is a little logically challenged due to trying to justify all the contradictions you face as a premie everyday. But this is pretty clear I think you ought to get it.

A good person would apologize to Gail.
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Date: Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 15:27:31 (EST)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: g's mom
Subject: Good Job, g's mom! (nt)
Message:
welllllll said!
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Date: Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 16:34:39 (EST)
From: Orlando
Email: None
To: everyone
Subject: I do not respect you Orlando
Message:
For the record (for curious minds who want to know): i do not know Gail never seen her, etc.
as for the threats: look, here is a question for you all:
if you are having a party with all your friends, would you invite me? no...
same thing here: why would you be invited and welcome to go to an event with M. if you are openly against him? (and why would you want to go in the first place?)
i really really do not understand this.
why would you want to do this?
why do YOU think that you have A RIGHT to see M. anytime you want??? who gave you this right?
you don't even respect him! you don't respect anything that he does...
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Date: Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 16:53:01 (EST)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Orlando
Subject: using your logic
Message:
Orlando: using your logic.... You have absolutely no right to visit or communicate with your congressman, unless you voted for him/her. If you voted against them, or don't like what they do, then you have no right to say so.... NONSENSE!

How different it must be for someone that claimed to be GOD! THE LORD! THE ALMIGHTY, INCARNATE! Yeah, right, we don't have the right to question this period in his history. We don't have any right to 'rock his holy boat.' NONSENSE!
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Date: Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 16:59:55 (EST)
From: Orlando
Email: None
To: Mike
Subject: using your logic
Message:
Mike
what in the world are you talking about?
i am fully aware of your opinion about M.
my point was: why do you want to ATTEND AN EVENT WITH M. Katie and Gail were 'astonished' to discover that Gail was not let in the hall!
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Date: Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 17:17:53 (EST)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Orlando
Subject: oh, Orlando!
Message:
I hate to belabor these points, but the reason I was surprised that Gail wasn't let into the hall was:
- she had an invitation
- she was accompanied by a premie who WAS let in - surely this guy could have kept an eye on her if they thought she was going to disrupt the broadcast (as if...).
- she was friends with the people at the door.
- nothing secret was apparently said during the broadcast, since one of the people on the enjoyinglife site posted a transcript of the whole thing on THAT site.

The fact is that there could have been several people who post on this site in that hall - it's just that Gail uses her real name, so they know who she is. BTW, I am glad you said that you didn't think Gail wants to harm Maharaji or premies. I know she likes a lot of the premies in her area. That's what makes the whole thing kind of sad.
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Date: Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 17:27:35 (EST)
From: Orlando
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: what is really sad
Message:
is not that she could not get in...what was sad is that she felt the separation from her friends.
but her friends are still there, they have not gone anywhere.
they are still there for her
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Date: Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 18:26:32 (EST)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Orlando
Subject: using your logic
Message:
Orlando: Please read my response above, too. You asked, why do we want to go to a program? Is that basically the question? Well, Katie did a fine job of explaining that in the post below. If we want to go, it's our prerogative. If he doesn't want to let us in, well that's his prerogative, BUT (and it's a big one), he'll be perceived as hiding something if he does. That kinda comes with being GOD, ya know? It's a perception, but quite valid. That's basically it....

So, what do you think of Gail, since she 'waited' for the premie that got in? She doesn't sound like a 'bad' or 'selfish' person to me. She sounds like a good and true friend that cared for another, even though she herself had been insulted by the gate-nazis. If 'I' had been that premie, I would have 'walked' when they wouldn't let her in; rather than make her wait for my sorry butt. What a heartless bunch you guys have become. I really do pity today's premie, they are a really sad and selfish group of people. Every story, of this variety, that I hear convinces me of that FACT!
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Date: Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 16:57:03 (EST)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Orlando
Subject: going to events
Message:
Dear Orlando -
You asked:
if you are having a party with all your friends, would you invite me? no... same thing here: why would you be invited and welcome to go to an event with M. if you are openly against him? (and why would you want to go in the first place?)
i really really do not understand this.
why would you want to do this?
why do YOU think that you have A RIGHT to see M. anytime you want??? who gave you this right?


The reason I would want to go to an event (and the reason some premies have urged me to go to an event) is to see how things have changed. I have seen videos, but I haven't seen a group of premies or M in person in ages. I certainly wouldn't disrupt an event in any way - I think there are certain premies who are a lot more likely to do that that I am.

As far as my 'right' to see M - obviously I don't have one. If he doesn't want me to go to an event, then I won't be let in. But Gail did receive an invitation to the satellite broadcast, and still didn't get to go in.

Other events are advertised 'for people with knowlege', 'for aspirants and people with knowledge' and 'for the general public'. I consider that I fall into the category of a member of the general public, and of a person with knowledge (I assume by this that he means someone who has received the techniques). If Maharaji does NOT want ex-premies to attend these events, then he (or someone around him) ought to say so.
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Date: Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 17:10:24 (EST)
From: Orlando
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: going to events
Message:
Katie
i have no idea if you would be let in or not. you probably could. But remember one thing:
the day before the event, Gail bragged ON THIS SITE that she was going and that she would report back on the site. this is quite different. if anybody read this (that 'Leena' she is referring to), how are they going to interpret this? how will they know that Gail will not disrupt the event?
you don't seem to realize that a lot of anger and hatred is expressed on this site and that it is a very normal thing for premies to want to prevent disruptions that could happen at events.
the 'thorn on the side' approach can be interpreted in different ways.
Please understand this: even though some very kind individuals are posting on this site, there are a lot of other 'undercurrents' here. This is not paranoia
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Date: Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 17:03:26 (EST)
From: hamzen
Email: None
To: Orlando
Subject: What gives Orlando?
Message:
Big boy's the saver of souls, no?
What if Gail's just lost the plot and needs re-exposing to the wonder of his love to really appreciate this life again?
How the fuck is that gonna happen if she's denied access.

Or is there only one chance with this wondrous knowledge?
He said himself, walk if you're not happy, but I never read him saying that once you've walked there is no returning.

'if you are having a party with all your friends, would you invite me? no..', certainly not on the evidence so far, especially not if Gail was there. But then neither have I said I was greater than god, nor titled any party as 'the sauce for all' or charged entry.Is that all it is now, a party with crap music? How are the mighty fallen.

If you haven't got anything on Gail, what is it? You been in prison sometime and her name brings back bad memories, you have unresolved feelings about some ex-partner called Gail, I mean what's the score? Or was it just random and she just happened to be the unlucky one?
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Date: Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 17:17:07 (EST)
From: Orlando
Email: None
To: hamzen
Subject: What gives Orlando?
Message:
i must admit...you made me laugh!
you say:
'What if Gail's just lost the plot and needs re-exposing to the wonder of his love to really appreciate this life again?
How the fuck is that gonna happen if she's denied access.'

i write:
please read my post to Katie about this

contrary to what some people might think, access to an event with M. does not go according to an 'open door' policy.
but M. has an 'open heart' policy (i know you'll hate this note)
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Date: Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 19:53:15 (EST)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Orlando
Subject: breaking my resolve...
Message:
orlando you fucking weasel, liar, coward, punk shit eating motherfucking cult twerp dweep!
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Date: Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 20:55:16 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Orlando
Subject: What gives Orlando?
Message:
Orlando,

With all due respect, my brothers and sisters in truth are giving away the store here. The fact is we DO have a right to get in. Maharaji owes us all a very significant audience and accounting.
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Date: Tues, Dec 15, 1998 at 04:07:23 (EST)
From: Jethro
Email: None
To: Orlando
Subject: What gives Orlando?
Message:
Prempal said 'The only people who are not in Maharaji's world are those that exclude themselves'

It is clear that in this case Gail did NOT exclude herself, it was his hands and feet, i.e.Him.
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Date: Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 17:54:05 (EST)
From: Gail C. MacDougall
Email: freedom@gtn.net
To: Orlando
Subject: IS ORLANDO A MYSOGYNIST?
Message:
Well, Orlando:

I didn't know when the program would be over. I didn't want to leave the guy feeling stranded at the parking lot on the outside of my car. He only had another $15 after he paid me $20 (he bought some cult magazine with that. Where was he supposed to go while I toured TO?

By the way, Orlando, you remind me of a little grade niner boy I taught. Whenever he neglected to take his noon dose of ritalin (for attention-deficit disordered persons) he became an off-the-wall, scathingly-angry, little beast. Given the severity of your case, may I suggest taking the entire bottle at once.

You are a spineless, gutless little twerp. I haven't seen your e-mail address so I can send you Madge's letter. I haven't heard you retract your comment to me that I'm a liar for it either. I haven't seen you tell me that you're sorry for calling me a liar re: MJ/net. I haven't seen you respond to my above post where I mention the money owed me by one of the security guards and my invitation/open-door policy.

You know what I think, Orlando. I think you probably picked the wings off flies, beat up your mother, and tortured your siblings and teachers as a child. I am certain I don't know you, but I have met your type before.

In all probability, you are a mysogynist and have an inferiority complex. You choose victims that you perceive to be weak so you can abuse them. I can imagine you kicking someone in the head or ribs after knocking them to the ground. You enjoy trying to make people miserable. I admitted to feeling very troubled and vulnerable as a result of leaving the cult. You choose to berate and belittle me.

I am not in a weakened state anymore, Orlando. I have had the courage and intellect to examine this cult, my life, and my so-called friends. It would have been easier to keep my blinders on, but I really want the truth. I very rarely hate anyone, but I'm willing to make an exception in your case.
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Date: Tues, Dec 15, 1998 at 07:46:50 (EST)
From: Orlando
Email: None
To: Gail C. MacDougall
Subject: for Gail
Message:
Gail
i did not respond to your post because people around here are accusing me of having a personal 'bone to pick' with you, which is not true.
this is my last post adressed to you
i will no longer comment on anything you do post
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Date: Tues, Dec 15, 1998 at 11:40:11 (EST)
From: Gail
Email: None
To: Orlando
Subject: To Orlando--Here's looking at
Message:
you kid. Please feel free to respond; I'd love to hear from you.

It just seems that you vent your misgivings about this site on me. Maybe I'm being paranoid. I notice that there is a sense of loyalty amongst the ex-premies. Some of them were harsh to you on my behalf and I appreciated their support.

However, one good thing I learned from my involvement in the movement was the idea of being a child. I've had rip-roaring arguments with some of my students and we've been furious with each other, but it doesn't last. We're all big, goofy kids at heart. Please remember that I am a person with anger and questions, just like you. I got involved with MJ for the same reasons you did: to know the living Lord, to know God, to get blissed out, to have a purpose in life, and to have a big family where I could truly belong. My beef is not with you; it is with Guru Maharaj Ji. He is the one who betrayed me and kept me a hostage for twenty-four years--not you. All the best!
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Date: Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 20:45:00 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Orlando
Subject: I know! I know!
Message:
why do YOU think that you have A RIGHT to see M. anytime you want??? who gave you this right?

Good question, Orlando. You didn't design the old initiator applicant questionnaire by chance, did you?

Anyway, I have the right because Maharaji OWES me an audience. I trusted him. Not just that, I gave him my all for several years. Not just that, he promised me that once I trusted him once, the key was to never second-guess that decision but to absolutely disavow any doubts arising subesquently. It goes on, but basically he owes me an audience and an accounting.

Next question?
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Date: Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 19:50:23 (EST)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: g's mom
Subject: Gail's mom, you are...
Message:
...GREAT! Thank you, thank you, G's mom 'a bloated parasite feeding off the premies'--YES!! And you should know--you have seen first -hand how it affects people (your daughter)

Thank you...you are one strong woman!
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Date: Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 20:40:58 (EST)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Helen
Subject: Oops Helen
Message:
G's mom is Gunther's mom, not Gail's mom. Gunther posted first, and then she posted (a long time ago). But she IS one strong woman, and she's definitely seen first-hand how it affects people.
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Date: Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 23:04:40 (EST)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: Oops Helen
Message:
Oops--sorry Gail and g's mom! Thanks Katie
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Date: Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 16:51:59 (EST)
From: Scott T.
Email: None
To: Orlando
Subject: due nuthin'
Message:
Odornal:

Re: i don't think the 'open door' is for people who want to harm him or his premies....sorry

Right. Gail's middle name is 'Squeaky.' And I've got news for you, he wasn't actually present in the hall. It's 'big magic.' He's in one place; his image is in another. Duh!

-Scott
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Date: Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 12:17:09 (EST)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Gardens talk? Rain Dances?
Message:
Jim: Man... 'A garden says, come on, become a part of me?' The last time I looked, plants didn't have a brain or a speech center. They don't say squat! I gets worse from there... I wish these folks would learn that there is a definite line between innocence and stupidity.
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Date: Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 00:41:19 (EST)
From: barney
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Happy New Breath, Asshole!
Message:
I can't stand reading that stuff. Stop posting it!
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Date: Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 01:23:03 (EST)
From: Gail
Email: None
To: Leena, et al
Subject: To Leena, the Toronto monitor
Message:
Dear Monitors:

Check out the transcript. Pretty good, eh? Maybe you could read it aloud at the next PREMIES-ONLY VIDEO NIGHT.

Who's taking the suitcase down?

Alex did mention that of all the cheques he had to write each month, the only one that gave him pleasure was the donation cheque to EV. One good thing did happen for him. As a result of his years in the ashram, he doesn't have to write maintenance cheques.

He mentioned today that he's still in the sunshine therapy business.
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Date: Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 20:02:18 (EST)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Happy New Breath, Asshole!
Message:
Ha ha --knowledge with a big K and knowledge with a little k...
You know sometimes people ask me, 'Helen, what is knowledge' and I say,' Hey,when I want to I feel funny, I put baloney on my shoes'...This guy just reminds me of a Steve Martin bit for some reason...
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Date: Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 00:00:08 (EST)
From: Gail
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: NEVER HAVE SO MANY DONE SO
Message:
MUCH FOR SO FEW (namely MJ and his family). I've left the cult and I'm still driving someone else for his fix. Good Lord!
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Date: Sun, Dec 13, 1998 at 23:21:48 (EST)
From: Gail MacDougall
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: So much for unconditional love
Message:
Well, I didn't get in to the live video event today. I'm not quite sure what earned me the inadmissable ticket (the penis extender or the suitcases full of money leaving Canada). When I arrived, I was greeted in the following manner:

Alex Perlman: You can't come in today, Gail.

Me: You're not allowing me in?

Alex: (Looking very tense) No, you can't come in today.

Me: But, I received an invitation and I drove all the way from London.

Alex: Yes, but you can't come in.

Me: Why not?

Alex: You know why?

Me: Ya, because I post on the net. Don't you want the world to know what the Lord of the Universe has to say today?

Alex: (Weak smile) I don't read the net.

Me: Well, Alex, you can relax. I'm not going to rush the doors, you know. It's me, remember?

Alex: (Big relaxed smile and he reaches over to hug me--I hug him back. I think he thought he would have to drag me from the hall kicking and screaming.)

Me: The only reason I got involved and stayed involved was because I believed he was the LOTU. Now he's just some meditation teacher.

Alex: All I know is that I have to practise K everyday. That gives me the experience. MJ is whoever he is to me. That doesn't matter. My experience dictates who MJ is to me.

AND ON IT WENT. YADAYADAYADA!

Then Michael Duhaney came over to lend Alex a hand. I hugged him, too. I've known Alex since 1978 and Michael since 1987. These guys are OK. They are just dedicated former-ashram premies doing their service.

Their service included a lengthy security meeting after the one-hour program (that's right folks). I figure that MJ earned a bundle at $60 a head. Of course, countries like India where he's still the LOTU don't have many rupees. I wonder if the security meeting pertained to removing me from the mailing list or how to hand docile ex-premies. Je ne sais pas!

A premie I know started working on me about two weeks ago to take him to this shindig. He probably had two motives: a) to get himself there cheaply because he's poor (he gave me $20 towards the $52 trip) and b) to save me. No one else in this town has taken him anywhere for at least a decade. (Premies don't have to help each other anymore. This isn't a club you know). He thought I wouldn't have a problem getting in (ha--he doesn't own a computer). I think he thought that if I just listened to the LOTU one more time, all would be fine.

He did admit that there were about 400 people in the hall and many of them were Tamil premies. He was quite impressed that about
77 000 people world-wide were watching (about 50 countries). Most of these folks were comprised of Indians and Napalese premies
(40 000 or so). He also admitted that he didn't see many faces he recognized (that's because they made it to this site). That's about all he would admit to though. Mums the word as far as what MJ said. Oh ya--I heard that there were a few technological glitches.

I felt a little sad. I guess I'm one of those little ants that fell out of MJs hand. I'm so small and insignificant that he just couldn't find me to pick me up again. I really am no longer a member of the club.

I ended up sitting in the underground parking for 3 hours in total. The fellow I drove was afraid he'd be labelled an ex-premie and insisted upon waiting for the security meeting to end so he could clarify his position to Michael Duhaney. And the grovelling continues ...

So much for unconditional love--I thought you could leave and come back whenever you wanted to. MJ claims to have an open door policy.

I mentioned to a couple of premies that I had always wanted MJ to know who I was and now he did. One person responded with 'I wouldn't be too sure about that.' I then replied, 'Why wouldn't I think this way. After all I believed that the LOTU had hand-picked me to be his follower. I must be special.'
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Date: Sun, Dec 13, 1998 at 23:56:20 (EST)
From: Gail
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: I miss some of my friends
Message:
It felt really good to see some old friends. I really love those guys. We've had many good times together.

I also realized that I'm just as egocentric as before. I used to think I was superior because I knew the secret of the universe (42 - Hitch-hiker's Guide to the Galaxy) and the LOTU. Now I am starting to think that I am inherently superior because most human beings are trapped in a belief system.

Actually beliefs systems are just like any other addiction--it's great not to have them and even greater not to judge those who do.
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Date: Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 00:04:59 (EST)
From: Brian
Email: brian@ex-premie.org
To: Gail MacDougall
Subject: So much for unconditional love
Message:
I'm sorry to hear how you were treated, Gail. The worst part is that those premies are actually loving people. They're just loving the WRONG people is all, and for the WRONG reason.

For those who benefitted from knowing Gail during your lifetime, and yet still followed the party line blindly like callous sheep - congratulations. You've finally realised Maharaji's Knowledge. You are now as loving as he is. And it only cost you 60 dollars to express it. Gail was there for you to offer you emotional support, love and money when you needed it, while Maharaji was only there to take it from you in exchange for his free gift. This is how you are spending your lives. Enjoy.
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Date: Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 00:57:23 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Gail MacDougall
Subject: Perlman at the pearly gates
Message:
Gail,

I understand that today must have been a lot of things, most of them tough. But a little reality check here. Alex Perlman is about the fakest human being I've ever met. He is, as you must know, the quintessential premie weenie. (Any of you who don't know him personally would be amazed at his extremely forced smile, forced breathing and forced ziplock personality. You wouldn't believe this guy. Honest.)

Alex even started his own little sub cult thing at one point, didn't he? I ran into him at a party in Orange County in the eighties. He was taking people down to the carribean then doing workshops on how to smile from morning til night, regardless of anything. CRINGE!

Gail, you deserve better. You need some new friends who you can also not see for a while an dthen have the pleasure of meeting up with again. Same warmth and nostalgia but without the cult. Today, all that natural humanness just got caught in the guru's net. Sorry. Glad you went though.
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Date: Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 01:22:30 (EST)
From: barney
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: it was a brave thing to go
Message:
Gail,

In my opinion, it was a real brave thing for you to go to see the broadcast knowing that 'they' knew you were 'out'.

I probably could have gone to the broadcast in my community since they don't know I'm 'out'. They even phone treed me about it. Fortunately, I'm fairly new to this community and I never developed any friendships. In fact, I didn't want to. These people never really seemed that friendly in the first place.

I didn't want to go because the whole little scene makes me sick.

Anyway, thanks for sharing it with us. It's a reminder of how uptight that whole scene is and has always been regardless of all the sweet words they throw around so freely.
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Date: Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 04:18:48 (EST)
From: Robyn
Email: sundogs@hotmail.com
To: barney
Subject: it was a brave thing to go
Message:
Dear Gail and Barney,
First Gail, I am sorry your experience was so upsetting. I hope someday you find it empowering, a propelling into the real world of your life. No more hush, hush, telling your mind not to think about the things that just don't sit right in your heart and mind about the cult. It is good that you are out. You should be proud, and proud that they all know.
Barney, I loved your changing the analogy about the ant falling out of Gail's hand being BM. Very good and I hope it really helped Gail.
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 12:00:21 (EST)
From: barney
Email: None
To: Robyn
Subject: no credit for me on antz
Message:
Robyn,

I appreciate being credited on the analogy about ants, but it wasnt' me. I probably would have used cockroaches. Actually, it might have been Gail.

Just setting the record straight.
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Date: Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 11:08:31 (EST)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: barney
Subject: it was a brave thing to go
Message:
I agree with Barney, Gail - it was really brave for you to go. It bothers me that they wouldn't let you in - WHY? It seems so silly. Did they check out all the other 400 people in the room to make sure they had the correct 'vibe'?. And I can't believe you drove that other premie all that way and then he insisted on making you wait for an extra hour in the parking garage. (My advice is don't drive any premies anywhere any more - you probably know this by now!) I hope you are OK today.

Lots of love,
Katie
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Date: Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 16:49:12 (EST)
From: Orlando
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: the garage
Message:
what is with the garage...there are plenty of restaurants and coffee shops in Toronto...
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Date: Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 18:38:23 (EST)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Orlando
Subject: the garage
Message:
Orlando: More importantly, why didn't this supposed 'premie' leave with her, when she was denied entrance by the storm-troopers? Why did this 'lover' inconvenience a friend, by making/expecting Gail to wait? Do you guys really appreciate how selfish this is? I said it in my post below... If 'I' had been THAT premie, I would have 'walked' rather than expect my friend to wait for me in 'god knows where.' How selfish do you have to be before infinite selfishness establishes itself? I can see, clearly, that 'premies' are well on their way to finding out!

Your response to Katie makes it clear that you really don't give a hoot about Gail, because you think she should have just gone and 'found' some dump to wait in. Never mind the fact that she would have been traveling alone! Do you guys even get it? Wake up! Your response was a callous as they come, Orlando.
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Date: Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 21:45:47 (EST)
From: Scott T.
Email: None
To: Mike
Subject: the legend of sleepy hollow
Message:
Mike:

Re: Your response was as callous as they come, Orlando.

I suspect Orlando knows this. He just doesn't know what it means. I don't think there is any lesson for premies here. The lesson is for us. I was like that once. All my hopes were piled on that dufus, so nothing else mattered. I couldn't afford to let anything else matter. It wasn't so much callous as a kind of decapitation or an amputation, if you will. Orlando once had an appendage we would all recognize as human. He has cut, sawed, lopped or whacked it off. He was under heavy anaesthetic, so he can't remember.

-Scott
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Date: Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 22:15:00 (EST)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Scott T.
Subject: the legend of sleepy hollow
Message:
Orlando once had an appendage we would all recognize as human. He has cut, sawed, lopped or whacked it off. He was under heavy anaesthetic, so he can't remember.

Good one, Scott, had me LOL at that one! Kind of an intellectual version of my ''breaking my resolve'' post if you don't mind the comparison.
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Date: Wed, Dec 16, 1998 at 19:41:13 (EST)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Scott T./Mike/Gail
Subject: pkg garage nightmare
Message:
Good point Scott, and I suspect the premie that didn't have the sense to walk out with Gail when Gail was kicked out also has had that amputation (lobotomy). We all were there once. (Funny, I've heard that crack cocaine addiction is like that too. I've heard that it actually kills the parenting instinct, so that it's not so hard for moms and dads to sell their kids for a toot.) Now I'm not implying that all premies would sell their friends/kids, etc down the river for GM, but GM/knowledge don't exactly encourage standing up for a friend!

Gail, I'm late reading this thread, but may be this was kind of a turning point--a way of finding closure on that weird premie world--like Jim said, you don't deserve this.
Helen
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Date: Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 01:21:57 (EST)
From: peter
Email: None
To: Gail MacDougall
Subject: So much for unconditional love
Message:
Hi Gail. I was curious to see what you would report. I must admit that I'm surprised. Why would they care if you came in, what did they think you would do? All I can think of is that they didn't want you to report what M said. Well, someone else probably will anyway, and besides M never says anything new.

Three hours in underground parking--yuck! Ironic that the last part was waiting for a security meeting to get over, in which you were likely a main topic of discussion.

I felt a little sad. I guess I'm one of those little ants that fell out of MJs hand.
It is sad, you've lost a lot, but I think it's more that MJ is a little ant that fell out of your hand.

Your second post (about feeling superior/not judging) was REALLY good.
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Date: Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 02:16:59 (EST)
From: Sir David
Email: David.Studio57@btinternet.com
To: Gail MacDougall
Subject: So much for unconditional love
Message:
Welcome back to the real world, Gail. It has hit you pretty hard, I should think, the final realisation that Maharaji ISN'T all loving and all the rest of the stuff we used to think he was. Your experience shows very well what a sad little cult it is.

By the figures you gave I reckon Maharaji has grossed well over two million dollars from this one hour speech. Perhaps half of that will be clear profit into his back pocket. Maharaji really ISN'T the Lord. He really isn't worth considering.

Yesterday my Father collapsed and was admitted to hospital. Today I have to go up to Coventry to sort out nursing care for my Mother and see my Father. That's the real world. That's real service. There's plenty of people who need you and will appreciate you far more than Maharaji ever did. Not that he ever knew you. Glad that now you're free to give your time, attention and love to the REAL people in your life. Yep, you're gonna me appreciated alot now, I can see.
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Date: Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 03:09:30 (EST)
From: Gail
Email: freedom@gtn.net
To: Sir David
Subject: So much for unconditional love
Message:
Dear David;

I'm so sorry to hear about your parents. I'm glad you have professional nursing care to help you. I hope everything clears up for them. Christmas is an especially diffuclt time for illness. There's nobody like a parent. We all went searching for that unconditional love; meanwhile it was our parents who portrayed it the most. After everything I put my mother through regarding the cult, she still loved me. My mother died here on the chesterfield a couple of years ago after a languishing bout with cancer.

By the way, I have the specs and a sample of that product I told you about. E-mail me your address and I'll send it to you. I've had the stuff sitting here for a couple of weeks but I spaced it out.

Take care.

Luv,

Gail

PS: I feel somewhat rattled today, and have not gone to bed yet. Funny though, I felt really proud strutting up to the door. I've got nothing to hide. It's 03:12 here. I have to get up soon to go teach school. As you say, 'CHEERS.'
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Date: Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 11:55:59 (EST)
From: Scott T.
Email: None
To: Gail
Subject: So much for unconditional love
Message:
Gail:

I'm sorry you had the experience at the satelcast, but you seem to be dealing with it exceptionally well. (Better than I would.) It still feels like betrayal no matter how your head has it worked out.

-Scott
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Date: Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 16:33:23 (EST)
From: Saul
Email: None
To: Gail
Subject: So much for unconditional love
Message:
Hey Gail,

For some reason, I'm reminded of that Simpson's episode where Homer is upset about being excluded from the secret society 'The Stone Cutters' (Who vanquish the darkness and expose the light of truth and virtue, then they all get drunk and play ping-pong).
He says

'WHY WON'T THEY LET ME INTO THEIR STUPID CLUB FOR JERKS!!'

Saul
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Date: Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 19:05:22 (EST)
From: Gail
Email: None
To: Saul
Subject: Why wont they let me into
Message:
THEIR STUPID CLUB FOR JERKS. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHASNORT!!!
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Date: Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 04:12:26 (EST)
From: Robyn
Email: sundogs@hotmail.com
To: Sir David
Subject: So much for unconditional love
Message:
Dear Sir,
I am so sorry to read about your mom and your dad too. Will your mom eventually be able to come home? My parents' health is starting to fail and it is hard, I know. You are such a loving person, I am sure you give them a good feeling and they know they are loved. Surely a satisfying thing for parents to feel when their children are grown.
Good luck and lots of caring thoughts and cyber hugs to you also David. I know you go through a lot each day and I hope you know how much we all care for you.
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 11:17:34 (EST)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Sir David
Subject: So much for unconditional love
Message:
Dear David -
I am really sorry to hear about your parents. I hope your father will be all right. You are right: what you are doing is REAL service, and it isn't easy. Several people I know are going through the same thing right now and it takes a lot of love and compassion.

Best wishes to you and your folks.
Love,
Katie
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Date: Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 12:36:33 (EST)
From: Bobby
Email: None
To: Sir David
Subject: best wishes
Message:
Best to you and your parents David
Healing and love
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Date: Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 12:43:57 (EST)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Bobby
Subject: Hi Bobby
Message:
Healing and love, and best wishes to you too. Hope everything is OK.
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Date: Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 21:47:35 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Sir David
Subject: So much for unconditional love
Message:
Hang in there, David. You're right about all you told Gail. (Except maybe Maharaji IS the Lord.) Best wishes with your folks.

Jim
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Date: Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 18:50:11 (EST)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Gail MacDougall
Subject: I'm proud of you, Gail!
Message:
Gail: You demonstrated what a 'true friend' is: By waiting for your friend, even after being refused entrance by those storm-trooper, door-nazi security morons! Sorry, I can't be nice to some of those that you called 'your friends' because they were more than willing to send you on the streets alone. No matter what, I don't think that was right! I know that Canada isn't as violent as here, but it isn't right to leave you alone on the streets..... Period! But, hey.... Why should they care, as long as they get their M-fix, right? Everyday, premies sound 'more and more' like junkies, to me. They certainly act like them!
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Date: Sun, Dec 13, 1998 at 15:45:12 (EST)
From: nitpicker
Email: nitpicker@bigfoot.com
To: Everyone
Subject: ELK critique
Message:
I have been reading Enjoying Life for a few weeks and, as a long in the tooth premie who used to be on the fence but is now admittedly leaning toward the 'ex' side, I thought it was about time some of these premie's stories were objectively reviewed. I mean if actors, poets and authors have to put up with it for doing their thing - then anyone who publishes anything on this great Web Universe should also be prepared for a little constructive criticsm.
Although I am offering my services free of charge I doubt if the ELK site will post any of my reviews so, not to deny the authors the right to a little feedback, I know that you guys at the ex site will not seek to stifle the odd acerbic comment.

I start with the would be deep thinker and poet ( probably a frustrated office worker who wishes he had got a more creative job) John Carpenter from Coventry U.K.

J.C. ( no wonder he is religious bigot with those initials) whose conversations with the natives reek of racist superiority, says, ' I was a college drop-out with a one-way ticket overland to Kathmandu,'
(what a brave, devil may care rebel you must have been ),' a 13-year-old boy come to stay in Hanwell in west London and my life changed for the better.'
I think you might be mistaken there John, how do you know that you would have not been better off using that one way ticket than settling down in Hanwell with the boy Guru.

He then goes on to say that now he is heading for his 'half century'. Unfortunately the pseudo poetic drivel he goes on to write does not reflect a saner or wiser man.
As with many of these die hard premies the phrases used indicate a brain with serious functional disorders ( backed up by his inability to distinguish between the banknotes he seems to enjoy looking at, and not knowing whether he is in Delhi or Kathmandu) not to mention having no shame or ability to be self critical, still that's what we're hear for.
Just to take a couple of heartfelt phrases...
'the blessed bus ( taking him towards ) another chance to be reminded of the miracle within the breath' and
'the only person who we can trust to talk, even in silence, to our hearts'
What is this? - it's neither prose or poetry, just an attempt to express his brainwashed consciousness in bad english.
His description of what sounds like a sycophantic orgy of grovelling before the lord '.. a sea of hands dancing together' does remind me of those old days in places like Orlando, Houston etc. where mass hysteria abounded as we all bowed before the almighty M in an effort to surrender the reigns of our lives. I thought all that was supposed to be in the past.
Another quote:
'The bus passes the temple where Buddha is buried and my mind takes me back to Bhaktapur 'City of devotees', that died of earthquake in 1934 and has been rebuilt. After two hours there, punctuated with ornate carvings of multi-armed goddesses who can only be appeased through blood sacrifice, I finally have a question for our guide: ' Why are there rhinos on the temples and the bank notes, when there are no rhinos in Nepal?'

John, I hope you will not take offence at this, but you have travelled far along the path to doo-lally land. You don't just remember Bhaktapur, your 'mind' (nasty horrible thing) kidnaps you and takes you back there?(glad to hear that later in your story you 'escape from the memories' that your ugly mind has forced upon you). Also why did you feel that you 'finally' had to question your guide and what makes you so interested in the pictures on bank notes.
I can't understand how this has anything to do with trying to realise the purpose of life or improving yourself as a person. Did you forget that satsang, service and meditation should be all that fills your life and that chit chat is the road to ruin?
Also you could perhaps try to cultivate a little more patience when someone is trying to explain something to you as, after two lines of conversation from the guide you say you were 'past caring'. What made you care in the first place? Just curious.

All this is, I admit, a little trivial and I only draw attention to it illustrate the state that we may all have been in at one time ( although at least I never wrote poems when I was under the influence) but what I deem more serious is the following quote..
'See those temples, see those buses, see the children, see that dust, see that maha-mantra, see those mountains, see that sky, (see you Jimmy)... Well, just ignore them, they are all distraction. I can only enjoy them as long as I am going to be reminded of what's inside me. '
This wreaks of moral turpitude and is why the whole knowledge/spiritual trip is the enemy of the human race.
When in this gooey devotional state nothing else, or no one else matters but M and desperately practising some crazy techniques in the hope that the world and all it's problems will go away and leave you alone. Talk about burying your head in the sand. It's even worse when the world and people around are viewed with contempt.
You think you have something that those people do not but you are wrong. All you have is a load of bunkum that causes more trouble than good. Take back the reigns of your life as there is no one else who is responsible for it but yourself.

I will not criticise those epic poems,
Transformation Rhyme
and
After Kabir
as I have read better from my 4 year old.
However a few word of advice. You are going to come a cropper if you are really serious about
'Desireless as I long to be..' this is the worst desire anyone can have.

Also I should think again about
'Knowledge conquers even death ?' for when did you ever see that happen?
It has caused a few suicides though,which you can read about on this site.

And finally I think you should go easy on the threats..
'Denier accept
The gift of the teacher
While you still can. ---- not that there's any coercion going on in Elan Vital
Who was it that promised to
Give Knowledge a fair chance
And enjoy their life?'

I admit it, I did make that promise and now that I have decided life with knowledge is not my cup of tea( i.e. much less enjoyable than life without knowledge) what will happen to me?
What happens when the offer runs out? - doomed for all eternity I expect.
Such is the sort of things us critics have to put up with.

Anyway it's good of you to remind us all that
'What is inside of you
Brings constant joy?'
If it's a tummy that's full of good food and booze then I'm with you there.

All I can say is grow up John.
And don't give up the day job.

Most sincerely

The notorious NITPICKER
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Date: Sun, Dec 13, 1998 at 16:59:41 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: nitpicker
Subject: Okay, nitpicker, try Vicki
Message:
Nitpicker,

That was so good I wonder if you'd like to take a shot at Vicki Leung, quite possibly the most Orwellian sounding premie I've ever come accross. Here's her report on the cult mindfuck earlier today from the 'Electronic Times' section of ELK. Do you think she's thinking clearly?:

'A happy new day - early morning in Melboune, Australia

A report from Vicky Leng

It was 3.00am in Melbourne. But I felt I was sitting right in front of Maharaji, his face full of tenderness for the beautiful excited people with Knowledge who voiced their words of love to him from around the world. I know I am not alone when I say I will never be the same again. Maharaji acknowledged people wishing one another 'Happy new year', but do we ever say, 'Happy new day.' or 'Happy new breath'?

I know today, I am feeling: 'Happy new day!' and, thanks to Maharaji, today is the beginning of an even happier new life. I must say I am a very excited happy person at any time, but today I feel this happiness ever more deeply from within. Thank you, Maharaji, for providing so much care and attention, and for never getting sick of reminding me about the preciousness of the gift of life, the gift of breath itself.

Many people with Knowledge and several aspirants took part in the planning and setting up of the event venue here in Melbourne. It felt as if we were all one entity, working together. It was such fun! Especially in the area I am involved in, which is providing refreshments for people as they arrive, many having travelled quite some distance in the middle of the night. We enjoyed setting up our own simple little 'Satellite Cafe' to provide a welcoming atmosphere. What a wonderful feeling it was to see people arrive, full of excitement and gratitude for yet another opportunity to be with Maharaji.

When it came time for the event to begin, we all could hardly wait to be seated. It reminded me of when I was little girl at Christmas, just waiting to get my hands on my presents! The difference is that back then I was always bitterly disappointed...such a hype for this incredible occasion, then to be left with the feeling: 'Is that all? There must be more...' And, of course, there was. Today I have enjoyed the thrill of anticipation of attending the event, and now I have more gifts than I could ever have anticipated, more precious too! My childhood dreams have been, and continue to be, fulfilled.'
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Date: Sun, Dec 13, 1998 at 19:40:57 (EST)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Nitpicker
Subject: Bravo
Message:
Bravo! I agree with you that GM /Knowledge are the enemy of the human race. YOur post was deliciously scathing! Thanks!
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Date: Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 16:24:09 (EST)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Face full of tenderness?
Message:
Jim: I know that I pick nits here, but 'what does a 'face full of tenderness' look like? Vickie, it's not tenderness, it's just a rash (it'll go away in a couple of days).

These premies are making less and less sense, by the post.
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Date: Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 00:43:50 (EST)
From: Scott T.
Email: None
To: nitpicker
Subject: ELK critique
Message:
NTPKR:

Re: When in this gooey devotional state nothing else, or no one else matters but M and desperately practising some crazy techniques in the hope that the world and all it's problems will go away and leave you alone.

That's why I usually fall in love. It's also why I leap out of airplanes. On reflection it doesn't seem very clever, but I'm not sure I'll ever be completely cured.

-Scott
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Date: Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 18:55:28 (EST)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Scott T.
Subject: Free fall!
Message:
Scott: Now, THERE'S the way to true enlightenment (in the truest sense of the word): Become weightless by freefall! I have to agree, jumping out of perfectly good airplanes is the BEST! Scuba is pretty good, too!

HOOYAH!
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Date: Sun, Dec 13, 1998 at 13:00:07 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Ex Initiator's freudian slip?
Message:
I'm just guessing but is it possible that Diego longs to get back to Malibu or something?:

'Diego De Alzaga
Santiago, Chile

Happy Birthday

Happy birthday.

So exited to have this chance that you so kindly offer to us to be in touch with you through this wonderful medium.

Thank you for your love and care.

Love and respect Diego'

(emphasis mine.)
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Date: Sun, Dec 13, 1998 at 11:51:35 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: The Master said 'Fuck Off'!!
Message:
Straight from Life of Brian we have the following misty-eyed tealeaf reading from Steve Ayre on ELK:

'Reincar-not

I finally got it the other day. The 'official' position on reincarnation is one that I accepted on faith. My reason and bias from other things I had heard made me think otherwise, but I accepted things as he put them to me on this issue. Then I understood something. He is talking about being saved. He is talking about the gift of being saved from cycling around blindly in this world as opposed to being conscious and enjoying life for what it is, for what the creator intended it to be. It's a choice. To be sure, people living in 'normal waking consciousness'may believe in reincarnation and that creates a certain reality for them. Same goes for a belief in karma or astrology. Believing in experiencing Knowledge is not related in any way to these other kinds of belief. Living the focus on experiencing Knowledge is the way to 'life.' I had no idea how grand this Knowledge is. Thank you, Maharaji. My gratitude is inexpressible.'

Maharaji, I can understand why you don't want these jokers talking out loud. Can't wait for the 'Conversations' page to start. Can you?
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Date: Sun, Dec 13, 1998 at 12:33:56 (EST)
From: hamzen
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: The Master said 'Fuck Off'!!
Message:
'Can't wait for the 'Conversations' page to start. Can you?'

Jim, it would be hilarious but do you think it'll ever happen?
Can't see how they'll stop the inherent problems, unless it's non-realtime, but then where will they get reliable editors? It takes a lot of hours to do a pravda, they'd need to pay.
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Date: Sun, Dec 13, 1998 at 12:49:57 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: hamzen
Subject: The Master said 'Fuck Off'!!
Message:
I think they can start a 'Conversation's' page IF they only take subscribers' posts and monitor for fast removal of the odd oddity. Maybe they would indeed have a full-time 'host' who'se service will be to audit comments very, very briefly before they're up. Kind of like the 30 second delay on talk radio. You have to remember that if they can just assure that their contributors are in fact premies, ones who listed their names and address, that self-censorship should go a fair distance towards the necessary restraint.

So I'm not sure. Maybe they will try it.

The real problem, of course, has nothing to do with pranks, criticism or sabotage. The real problem will be discussions like the one Mr. Ayre's comments are bound to trigger.
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Date: Sun, Dec 13, 1998 at 13:18:06 (EST)
From: hamzen
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: The Master said 'Fuck Off'!!
Message:
I'm not so sure Jim, look at the time taken editing those fake posts put up from here, sure as hell they do it to all of them.
They can hardly edit like that and then allow premies to talk openly.
Also if they're that accepting that premies could be that far off in some of their ideas, how are they gonna know who's who? They accepted the fake posts before which must have got them in a right tizzy.
I reckon they're looking to smiley himself to rescue them. Make it a service for his holiness, tight job interview, problem solved.

Or they could advertise here, if they bankroll a decent income. Who knows better about the deceit than ex-p's. Number of people here could do that job in their sleep.
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Date: Sun, Dec 13, 1998 at 11:49:22 (EST)
From: Brian
Email: brian@ex-premie.org
To: Everyone
Subject: Take the test!
Message:
The Instructor Application Survey that Instructor Candidates had to submit with their applications is now online. Bring a shovel...
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Date: Sun, Dec 13, 1998 at 11:58:23 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Brian
Subject: You expect me to believe that?
Message:
Brian,

What is this? A joke? Are you just pissed off you didn't send in your own fake life story to ELK? Is that it? Well, you had your chance. You could have done it but OOOHH NOO, you're too busy playing around with your little web page here.

Listen, I don't know what you think you're doing but this is just too weird. I mean I'm trying to laugh but what's really happening is this questionnaire's got my face so screwed up I'm going to have to go back to sleep. What IS this shit? Is this what you do when YOU'RE trying to get back to sleep? What IS this?
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Date: Sun, Dec 13, 1998 at 12:28:53 (EST)
From: david m
Email: None
To: Brian
Subject: I really cannot believe that!!
Message:
Hey Brian.....
I really can't believe what i just read. That is total bullshit what happened to my old cult satsang,service,meditation . Jeeeesh
cant a premie just love god and get peace anymore, boy its evolved into such a mess...dave
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Date: Sun, Dec 13, 1998 at 12:11:25 (EST)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Brian
Subject: Take the test!
Message:
That is one of the weirdest things I've ever seen - half anintelligence test - including a MATH test, half a test of proper attitude. BTW, the last question (involves interpreting a metaphor) is the type of question often used to determine if people have some kind of mental illness.
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Date: Sun, Dec 13, 1998 at 15:07:42 (EST)
From: Scott T.
Email: None
To: Brian
Subject: Take the test!
Message:
4 1s, 4 10s, 25, & 50

So, you take three fingers... place two on you eyes and one up your nose. No, that's not it... You have three fingers and eleven toes... no, wait.... Place your finger on the side of your nose and... Place your tongue in your nose and try to whistle the tune to Smokey Mountain Breakdown. Silently repeat the lyrics to Tom Dooley, by the Chad Mitchel Trio. While plugging your headholes with your thumbs, hold your breath until you turn blue, and then blow it out your...

This is harder than I thought.

-Scott
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Date: Sun, Dec 13, 1998 at 16:24:56 (EST)
From: seymour
Email: None
To: Scott T.
Subject: Take the test!
Message:
Hi guys and gals,
I have not even had time to read the last week or so's posts but
I'll catch up with what I missed in the archives.
It's a bit like watching films that you missed on video.
Anyway, I've taken the test - or at least tried to. After the first section my brain began to hurt.
These are the answers do you think I've passed?
I'm sure they are better than the answers that some off the initiators I knew would have given...

The man hurled the brick angrily
d. caught

The young man got a job as a member of the ship's
a. herd

That girl is very bright; she has a ______ mind.
a. harsh

My son is very tired; he's ______ very badly.
a. pursuing
or maybe b. threatening

You like to play golf in your free time, don't you?
d. shy

While camping in the mountains we dug a deep hole in which to bury the garbage.
d. dome

I'll need a ______ to get that book down from the top shelf.
d. shovel

Actually I think Jim is right and that the whole thing is a joke
Hope all are well
Seymour
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Date: Sun, Dec 13, 1998 at 16:40:26 (EST)
From: RT
Email: mmmmmmm
To: seymour
Subject: I sent in the test!
Message:
No, It is no joke. I sent it in to Brian, it was mine for 10 years
Brian perfectly transcribed it , it is real. As real as me.

RT
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Date: Sun, Dec 13, 1998 at 16:48:24 (EST)
From: seymour
Email: None
To: RT
Subject: I sent in the test!
Message:
I believe you RT.
Thanks for sharing it with us
But do you know who devised this brain teaser of a test?
Seymour.
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Date: Sun, Dec 13, 1998 at 17:09:36 (EST)
From: Brian
Email: brian@ex-premie.org
To: seymour
Subject: Seriously!
Message:
But do you know who devised this brain teaser of a test?

The test is actually as timeless as Knowledge. Jesus gave this same test to his disciples. Buddha took it, Krishna took it too. Even Fakiranand took it, although he missed the one about the hidden knife. But he got the brick ones right!
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Date: Sun, Dec 13, 1998 at 19:54:20 (EST)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Brian
Subject: HA! (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Sun, Dec 13, 1998 at 19:52:27 (EST)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: seymour
Subject: Take the test!
Message:
Er, Seymour I hate to tell you this dude, but YOU'RE CERTIFIABLY INSANE, OK??? You're just right to become an initiator! COngratulations!
(;
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Date: Wed, Dec 16, 1998 at 04:40:24 (EST)
From: TD
Email: None
To: Brian
Subject: I'M GONNA BE AN INSTRUCTOR!
Message:
I just know it. I've been cramming for this for two days and after slipping Charanand a couple of bucks, he told me that the secret to getting 100% on this 'divine test' is to show that you have the kind of intuition and 'ability to read between the lines' that all in the inner circle have. So with that advice in mind, I've given the following answers:

1. He's completely lacking in courage; he's a Perfect Master
2. Fakiranand hurled the brick angrily.
3. The young man got a job as a member of the ship's premie refurbishment team.
4. He had a hammer concealed in his pocket.
5. That girl is very bright; she has a non-premie mind.
6. There'll be some baby birds in the nest soon; these eggs are ready to film and put into a fluffy Visions International video with some divine voiceover.
7. My son is very tired; he's sick of being dragged along to programs very badly.
8. You like to play golf in your Malibu dream house, don't you?
9. While camping in the mountains we dug a deep darshan tunnel in which to bury the garbage.
10. I'll need a gold-encrusted Gulfstream powered fork-lift to get that book down from the top shelf.
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Date: Wed, Dec 16, 1998 at 07:54:24 (EST)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: TD
Subject: HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!(nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Wed, Dec 16, 1998 at 22:37:28 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Helen
Subject: HeHeHeHeHe...HmHmHm :) (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Wed, Dec 16, 1998 at 14:09:17 (EST)
From: g's mom
Email: None
To: TD
Subject: everyone read TDs post!(nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Wed, Dec 16, 1998 at 15:12:48 (EST)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: TD
Subject: Bwah ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
Message:
TD: Now, THAT's funny....
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Date: Sun, Dec 13, 1998 at 11:48:24 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Hey, I'm a music critic!
Message:
Well Mike, never fear, the Hamster can't control every media outlet on earth, not yet anyway. Here's what they just printed in the customer review section on Amazon.com for the premie compilation CD brilliantly entitled Reflections a name both bold and exciting, on the one hand, and daringly original on the other. Just by the name alone, one knows this will be anything but a vague, background tape for the Hamster's powder room:

'heller@bc1.com from victoria, b.c. , December 8, 1998
This is nothing but a fundraiser for cult leader, Maharaji!!
What you've got here is a compilation of songs by followers of cult leader, Maharaji, the 'Lord of the Universe'. The cliched, new-age sound is a 'cult favorite' as it supports the guru's incessant incantations to his followers to love him more and more. Literally mind-numbing fare. Sometimes, they even line up to kiss his feet listening to this stuff. I know, unfortunately. I was there. If you buy it, you should know that all proceeds go to the guru. What's next? The Reverand Moon Christmas record? 'Fly me to the Moon' by the Heaven's Gate choir (posthumous, of course)?'

You know, I'd bet they'd love to hear from some other listeners to.
Here's where you go.
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Date: Sun, Dec 13, 1998 at 12:11:20 (EST)
From: Brian
Email: brian@ex-premie.org
To: Jim
Subject: Hey, I'm a music critic TOO!
Message:
I changed your URL to a link. Also posted a follow-up review to that site. Good eyesight, Jim.
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Date: Sun, Dec 13, 1998 at 12:20:08 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Brian
Subject: Hey, I'm a music critic TOO!
Message:
Thanks.

You'll note it took a few days for mine to get posted. Care to show us what you wrote?
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Date: Sun, Dec 13, 1998 at 16:54:17 (EST)
From: Brian
Email: brian@ex-premie.org
To: Jim
Subject: Hey, I'm a music critic TOO!
Message:
Care to show us what you wrote?

Well, lessee if I can recall... I think I wrote:

That Jim Heller is a trouble-making [something]... It's a great album of [poetic adjectives] music! Besides, Chris Dickey likes it, so that tells ya something. And CD knows BOTH CHORDS ON THE ALBUM!!
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Date: Sun, Dec 13, 1998 at 22:31:49 (EST)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Ron Clearfield
Message:
Congratulations, Jim, but I'm curious, are the musicians on this album all premies? I have Ron Clearfield's latest album, 'Dream Manifestations', which I think is pretty good. The funny thing is, when I first saw the CD I said to myself, 'He looks like a premie'. No lie. He had that smile that only premies seem to be capable of. Not a happy, genuine smile, but that stoned without drugs kind, you know, the one that says 'I'm out there, way WAY out there'. The album's actually pretty good.
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Date: Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 13:03:22 (EST)
From: srb
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: Ron Clearfield
Message:
My review of the album was a comment that Ron, who
I knew also, will get NO money from this cd.
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Date: Tues, Dec 15, 1998 at 15:52:54 (EST)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Ron Clearfield
Subject: Hey, Ron!
Message:
Ron, if by chance you see this, I just want you to know that I'm getting much more enjoyment out of 'Dream Manifestations' than I ever did from satsang, service, OR meditation. It's really a beautiful album. I've been listening to it all afternoon.

How is it that a student is able to reach my soul with his music where the master's words never could?
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Date: Tues, Dec 15, 1998 at 03:13:24 (EST)
From: CD
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: A better set of links
Message:
Here is a more complete list of music titles.

People can listen to the sound clips and even buy the CDs to hear what the music really is like rather than listen to a couple old birds sqauking.

Good listening,
CD
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Date: Tues, Dec 15, 1998 at 12:56:38 (EST)
From: Grey Beard
Email: None
To: CD
Subject: Who you callin'
Message:
CD: Who you callin' 'OLD' boy???? Young whipper-snappers got no respect! Now, go get me a hickory schtick!
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Date: Sun, Dec 13, 1998 at 01:08:21 (EST)
From: Brian
Email: brian@ex-premie.org
To: Everyone
Subject: MJ's Secret Bugging of DLM
Message:
Hey, Raja Ji! Hey, Glen! Hey, Charanand!

You now get to deny this, or lie for the Ex-Lord! Because anyone who looks you in the eye after reading this will either have the courage to ask you outright, or fall back in step with the usual EV policy of pretense. You decide, premies. Ask, or pretend?

The latest Journeys entry is from a former WPC member. It's a definite must read. Thanks, Ed, for sharing this with us. And with the lurkers who want to know more than Maharaji's self-serving version of the Truth.

To find out how Maharaji and Little Brother Raja Ji used the WPC to suppliment their own fraudulent omniscience, click here.
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Date: Sun, Dec 13, 1998 at 04:20:56 (EST)
From: TD
Email: None
To: Brian
Subject: MJ's Secret Bugging of DLM
Message:
Jai satchitananda - what a long strange trip it’s been.

And this long strange trip continues to amaze me - the corruption, the deceit and the continued coverup - when will it ever end??

And the Big M can't palm this off or blame it on Raja Ji as Ed says that the Big M used to have access to the tapes. Unbelievable. No actually, I take that back. In light of everything I keep on learning here, its now very believable!

Thanks very much Ed, from someone who wasn't around then, but wished she had known about stuff like this!

Regards, TD
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Date: Sun, Dec 13, 1998 at 09:33:37 (EST)
From: 007
Email: None
To: Brian
Subject: MJ's Secret Bugging of DLM
Message:
I have a picture of m listening to a big tape deck with
headphones at that time.

I wondered what kind of music would be recorded
on a big reel to reel at that time.

He was listening to the premies.
Well I'm sure that didn't end there.
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Date: Sun, Dec 13, 1998 at 10:29:49 (EST)
From: Saul
Email: None
To: Brian & Premies
Subject: MJ's Secret Bugging of DLM !!!
Message:
WOW. I hope this gets pointed out prominently in the permanent pages.

Dear Premies;

Enough is enough, don't you think?

Saul
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Date: Sun, Dec 13, 1998 at 10:30:00 (EST)
From: Salah
Email: salah_h@hotmail.com
To: Brian
Subject: WPC and all that stuff
Message:
Thanks for your detailed info on how u bugged the Palace. I know the Palace very well, because I am the one who found it for DLM.
What you did not explain in detail was the relationship between DLM and WPC. I used to visit the WPC Ashram and knew your boss John...(John by the way hangs out these days in a Cafe in West Hampstead drunk on wine all the time)...

The WPC Ashram was kiaotic at best of times, there was absolute mayhem there Non of these guys ever meditated and they believed that they were the guys who were behind the real action. The place was really dirty, too many people there, and people constantly changed. The idea was that this time it is better to perform action rather then meditation, cause both would get u to Slef Relisation...this was Rajaji's thing....But this bugging thing...was just one of Rajaji's many games....I dont personally believe that MJ condonded or was interested in it. Why would he be interested in What Glen Whitteker or Peter Potter had to say...This is just one of the WPC's fancifull wishfull thinking...

If you worked 20 hours a day as some of these guys did...well u would start to imagine this kind of stuff...

Rajaji is strange at times...and doing somthing like that falls into his character..and remember he has just showed up from the East, and was probably intrigued by all the 007 movies he was watching...

But I really dont think u can blame MJ for Rajaji's actions...that is absurd...The whole justice system would collapse if one man is blamed for another man's actions...I have no doubt that this bugging thing happened...but i also believe that it was not MJ who organised it or knew anything about it...

Regards

Salah

P.S: We must be objective and tell the Truth ....
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Date: Sun, Dec 13, 1998 at 10:38:12 (EST)
From: Saul
Email: None
To: Salah
Subject: WPC and all that stuff
Message:
Salah,

You have GOT to be kidding me. Do you mean to say that you don't believe Ed when he says:

'The tapes were bought back to Reigate each night and transcribed for Raja Ji who would show any interesting items to Maharaj Ji.'

is that it?

Saul
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Date: Sun, Dec 13, 1998 at 10:47:49 (EST)
From: Salah
Email: salah_h@hotmail.com
To: Saul
Subject: WPC and all that stuff
Message:
There were alot of really weird stuff going round with the WPC and at the time of the WPC and that is why they were disbanded pretty early on. I really dont think MJ or anyone for that matter would have much interest in what Glen Whitteker or Peter Potter or the poor secretary had to say...it was a small office at the entrance to the hall...anyone can walk in there...kind of free in and out..no security..i could walk in there any time and sit and listen...people were constanmtly in and out..

If MJ did listen to the tapes...it was just out of amusement at Rajaji and his games/tricks...I really dont think we can read much into that..or that there was any sinister plots ....and it is true there was alot of 'we are better then them...' between DLM and WPC...

As I said...let us be objective...unless we fall into the same mistakes of the past...

Regards

Salah
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Date: Sun, Dec 13, 1998 at 11:30:13 (EST)
From: Saul
Email: None
To: Salah
Subject: Big Brother cares about us!
Message:
[Salah says: If MJ did listen to the tapes...it was just out of amusement at Rajaji and his games/tricks...I really dont think we can read much into that..or that there was any sinister plots ....and it is true there was alot of 'we are better then them...' between DLM and WPC...]

Salah,

Just to be clear, I understand that you have no information to contradict Ed's statement that M listened to the tapes, you just suppose (for some reason not made clear) that if M did listen to them, it was 'out of amusement at Rajaji.'

In my opinion, secretly and systematically bugging an entire building including living quarters is not a 'game'. In fact, it's likely to be a serious crime. In any case, it shows a profound dishonesty and an incredible lack of respect for people who have devoted their whole lives to M.

Premies out there: Does this sound like someone worthy of your devotion? Are you being had?

Saul
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Date: Sun, Dec 13, 1998 at 11:40:11 (EST)
From: Salah
Email: None
To: Saul
Subject: Big Brother cares about us!
Message:
ask Ed...was he there and did he see MJ listening to the tapes...or did he hear from someone else that MJ listened to the Tapes....ask him...

As I said...it would be pretty boring listening to what Glen had to say....

Regards

Salah
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Date: Sun, Dec 13, 1998 at 11:54:39 (EST)
From: Saul
Email: None
To: Salah
Subject: Big Brother cares about us!
Message:
[Salah:
ask Ed...was he there and did he see MJ listening to the tapes...or did he hear from someone else that MJ listened to the Tapes....ask him...]

Fair enough, I will.

[Salah: As I said...it would be pretty boring listening to what Glen had to say....]

I hope that you can see that this isn't the point. It concerns me that this doesn't bother you. Suppose you were bugged and M listened to your most private conversations. Is this OK with you?

Saul
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Date: Sun, Dec 13, 1998 at 12:03:45 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Saul
Subject: He's gonna say 'yes'
Message:
I hope that you can see that this isn't the point. It concerns me that this doesn't bother you. Suppose you were bugged and M listened to your most private conversations. Is this OK with you?

I'm afraid Salah's going to say something along the lines of it wouldn't bother him so much. After all, he had nothing to hide back then. His conversation would have been pretty standard premie stuff. If Maharaji got a kick out of playing around with some technology he had fun with, what's the problem?

Come on, Salah, let's have your 'objective' reply, 'kay?
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Date: Sun, Dec 13, 1998 at 12:20:46 (EST)
From: Salah
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Jim...sorry u are wrong
Message:
No Jim you are wrong...If MJ has given the ok to this scheme then I would certainly say its wrong...But we have no evidence of that...It was Rajaji and his happy band of men...the WPC which organised this...As I said before u cant blame MJ for what RajaJi does...it would not stick in any court of law..

Regards

Salah
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Date: Sun, Dec 13, 1998 at 12:36:21 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Salah
Subject: Actually, YOU'RE wrong
Message:
Salah,

I'm relieved to see you wouldn't condone Maharaji's enjoyment of the taps like that. However, I think you're wrong to say:

u cant blame MJ for what RajaJi does...it would not stick in any court of law..

First, legally:

(Criminally) -- If M enjoyed the tapes regularly such that the cops could prove R was basically procuring them for him, M could be charged as a party to the offense (for 'aiding or abetting' [i.e. encouraging]) or as a co-conspirator. Plus, if M owned or controlled the properties where these illegal taps occurred, and he allowed this to happen, he could be further liable -- criminally -- as a party.

Of course, in real life, these acts are far too light-weight to attract any real interest from law enforcement so many years later. Besides, it might not have even been illegal to bug one's own business premises like that back then.

(Civilly) -- M could easily be liable as R's principal for whatever harm R caused, even if he didn't know about it, so long as one could prove on a balance of probablitites that he should have known that R acted in a reasonably forseeable way, however misguided and illegal. If M actually knew about the bugs, he'd be 1 trillion per cent liable as R's principal and a few other ways as well.

Morally: M was responsible for everything that happened in any of his organizations unless it was unforseeable and M had taken all reasonable steps to guard against it (slight contradiction, but that's the way it is). Moreover, if M was a fraud and his organizations very raison d'etre was bogus, he was morally responsible for EVERYTHING thhat happened, forseeable or not.
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Date: Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 16:00:05 (EST)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Salah
Subject: I can't stand it!
Message:
Salah: According to you and every other premie that has ever 'graced' us with their presence, M is the MOST UNRESPONSIBLE person that has ever existed. He's not responsible for ANYTHING (except that 'feeling' inside). Do you realize how absurd this sounds? How can he have been around for SO LONG and not know anything about any of this stuff.... REPEAT ANY OF THIS STUFF? If M is this unconscious, what the heck is he doing talking about anything that has anything to do with being conscious?

There isn't any grey area here, he is either conscious or unconscious. IF he is conscious, then he HAS TO KNOW that this stuff was/is going on... Period!
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Date: Sun, Dec 13, 1998 at 11:34:02 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Salah
Subject: Yes, BE objective, Salah
Message:
If MJ did listen to the tapes...it was just out of amusement at Rajaji and his games/tricks...I really dont think we can read much into that..or that there was any sinister plots ....and it is true there was alot of 'we are better then them...' between DLM and WPC...

As I said...let us be objective...unless we fall into the same mistakes of the past...


Salah,

One moment you say you didn't think Maharaji heard the tapes. The next, that if he did it was just for fun. First, you obviously don't know one way or the other, right? I'd hope you weren't relying too much on your speculation. The fact is you just don't know. Remember that and speculate accordingly, humble before this 'mystery' not trying to control it with wishful thinking. You do want to be 'objective', don't you?

Second, even if Maharaji listened for fun, it was fucked. What's wrong with you?
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Date: Sun, Dec 13, 1998 at 17:08:47 (EST)
From: Malibu Mole
Email: None
To: Salah
Subject: WPC and all that stuff
Message:
I don't know about bugs, but Raja Ji did 'pimp' for Maharaji,
at least during the 80's. He introduced at least 2 women to Maharaji during that time. Whether they eventually 'bugged'him, or he 'buggered' them,I don't know.
What I'm saying is, it is a posibility
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Date: Sun, Dec 13, 1998 at 18:25:22 (EST)
From: Salah
Email: None
To: Malibu Mole
Subject: WPC and all that stuff
Message:
How do u know he pimped for MJ?
Is it hearsay or did the girls tell u?

Regards
Salah
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Date: Sun, Dec 13, 1998 at 12:06:47 (EST)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Salah
Subject: to Salah
Message:
Dear Salah -
I'm not going to comment on the WPC stuff, except to say that I do believe what Ed had to say in his Journeys entry (and found it fascinating). What I did want to say is that I remember you from before - maybe over a year ago you posted on the forum about M saying he could 'turn the Motorway round.' You probably remember this - you got harassed about it by Mili (the Croatian premie). I am assuming that you are an ex-premie - am I right?

I also agree with you that tapes made of the conversation in DLM headquarters would probably be pretty boring - it's amazing that Raja Ji would go to all that trouble to it. But I do still think it's wrong (not to mention illegal) to tape other people without their knowledge.
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Date: Sun, Dec 13, 1998 at 12:13:53 (EST)
From: Salah
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: to Salah
Message:
Katie....Hi

I agree with everything in your posting.....and it was me who made the posting a year ago.....
Regards

Salah
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Date: Sun, Dec 13, 1998 at 12:36:21 (EST)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Salah
Subject: to Salah
Message:
Hi Salah -
You sound like you have a lot of interesting stories to tell - should you ever care to, we'd love to hear them.

I think one of the problems you are running into here is that we didn't have the same split between the WPC and DLM in the US (and probably in Canada either). I've heard a lot from the English ex-premies about the WPC in England, and it sounds like it was really heavy - the WPC had a lot of power there. In the community I lived in in the US, we had certain ashram premies that were designated as WPC, but they lived in the ashram with all the other premies, and basically just did security at programs, etc.

The issue I see with the tapes is that Raja Ji wouldn't have had the opportunity to set up the WPC at all if it hadn't been for Maharaji's agya. I can believe that Maharaji thought that taping was silly, but it sounds like M was quite indulgent with Raja Ji, and basically allowed him to set up the whole WPC house and do whatever he wanted. Of course I don't know all the details, but it sounds like M wouldn't be legally responsible for the bugging - however, I think he does have some moral responsibility for it.

Regards,
Katie
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Date: Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 10:14:57 (EST)
From: Salah
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: MJ Closed the WPC
Message:
During that period, MJ closed down the WPC overnight because it was getting out of hand...

Regards

Salah
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Date: Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 22:30:29 (EST)
From: Edi Cramp
Email: None
To: Salah
Subject: WPC and all that stuff
Message:
Hi there Salah,

Good points - it was chaotic - there was a number of people who did not meditate (but probably far fewer than you think). We kept the house as clean as we could (2 people working full-time to clean up after 40-50 people), yes and crowded too (I assume that you've been to India :-) ).

I did not mean to suggest that Maharaji Ji approved or condoned the bugging - I'm reasonably sure that he knew about it but I never saw anything to suggest that he was directly involved in it.

However - it wasn't the WPC who came up with the idea of the bugging... I'm reasonably sure that this was direct from Raja Ji - and yes - like most covert operations it was 99% total boredom - but it did have its moments...

Yes we worked long hours but the WPC folk had a better handle on the world than the majority of the Ashram Premies that I knew at the time (your mileage may vary ...).

This was all a long time ago - my best regards to anyone who knew me at the time.
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Date: Tues, Dec 15, 1998 at 00:11:32 (EST)
From: Brian
Email: brian@ex-premie.org
To: Edi Cramp
Subject: WPC and all that stuff
Message:
I did not mean to suggest that Maharaji Ji approved or condoned the bugging - I'm reasonably sure that he knew about it but I never saw anything to suggest that he was directly involved in it.

That may not have been your intention, granted. But if Maharaji knew about it, took no steps to halt it, the bugs were placed on his brother's orders, his brother got his authority from Maharaji, and the components were assembled in the residence in Reigate then Maharaji was involved. He also shared in the information that was gathered (if it was interesting enough to call to his attention). How is this not direct involvement? Would you limit that term to those who planted the bugs?

Maharaji didn't approve or condone Fakiranand's hammer-wielding either, but he sent the criminal out of the country afterwards - after he had just committed attempted murder. Complicity counts in life.
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Date: Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 00:12:50 (EST)
From: Scott T.
Email: None
To: Brian
Subject: MJ's Secret Bugging of DLM
Message:
Brian:

Re: The WPC premies looked down on the ashram premies as lazy while the WPC premies usually worked very hard. The ashram premies looked down on the WPC as a bunch of gestapo types who never meditated. We didn’t make care what the ashram premies thought of us.

Very good case study in how to create a fascist organization. He should read the Marienthal studies to get a clearer picture of what was attractive about fascism in europe in the '30s. The competition with DLM is classic. Reminds me of the 'Night of the Long Knives,' when Rhelm's Sturmen Abteilung were betrayed by their fellow Nazis. The bugging of DLM was pure voyeurism, and even at this late date it's clear just how trivial the rhetoric about bringing peace to the world really was. It seems the run-of-the-mill premie's mistrust of the WPC was very well placed. Wonder why he packed his bags and left, since he apparently doesn't regret anything?

-Scott
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Date: Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 14:04:14 (EST)
From: Saul
Email: None
To: Scott T., Salah
Subject: MJ's Secret Bugging of DLM
Message:
I received a message from Edi Cramp confirming that MJ both heard the tapes and was read some of the transcripts. Only about four or five people were directly involved in the operation but they were told that MJ was playing some of the tapes.
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Date: Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 14:24:15 (EST)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Scott T.
Subject: No regrets?
Message:
Wonder why he packed his bags and left, since he apparently doesn't regret anything?

I can't say that I really regret anything from my involvement with DLM (at about the same period) either. Since I was a 16-year-old high school dropout when I received K, and because I never moved into the ashram, I didn't give up much. Other people, including very good friends of mine, gave up a lot more (life, marriage, relationships, children, careers, family). But I wasn't very happy when I received Knowledge, and although I practiced meditation, service, and satsang to the best of my ability, practicing Knowledge didn't make me any happier. Basically, I left because M and DLM became too confining for me - I grew out of it, so to speak. I suspect that Ed (Edi) may have felt the same way.
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Date: Tues, Dec 15, 1998 at 18:32:44 (EST)
From: Edi Cramp
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: No regrets?
Message:
Likewise - sometimes you just know that it's time to move on. I hitchhiked out and got a job back in Oxford. I lived with some old friends who were good enough to help me and not ask too many questions about where I'd been. It just wasn't something that I wanted to talk about at the time.
Meditation has done some things for me that I would have believed impossible - I still meditate when I need to - the years in the WPC taught me to do this unobtrusivly (no need of a blanket!). I don't think that meditation has made me happier in itself - but then I don't think that I was ever promised that...
All the best,
Edi
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Date: Sat, Dec 12, 1998 at 21:36:43 (EST)
From: Anon Anand
Email: Sat-a-lie@Dec13.dud
To: Everyone-bring to Event.
Subject: Print this out: 41 Doubts
Message:
41 REASONS WE LEFT THE ROOM TO DOUBT MAHARAJI.

This document is the result of asking Ex-Premies on line at http://www.ex-premie.org WHY they left Maharaji. It's not meant to be a definitive argument. Rather, it's exactly what you get when you ask some of the Ex's on the Forum to contribute a reason or so for walking away. (October 1998) Wake UP!

1/ Maharaji's 'knowledge' is wilfully blind to the growing knowledge we have of the world, life and, in particular, the brain. People might look into Maharaji's dark closet because they think there's something there but, when they end up staying for years and years, they're really just hiding. They might as well throw a blanket over their heads. It is absolutely impossible to be a premie and a student of brain science.

Reasons I left the cult:
2/ (Mentally-arrested development, physically-not paying attention to health)
3/ I found that other things (people, school, music, studying other religions, career) became more interesting to me once I got some distance from 'the trip'
4/ I developed some morals and ethics and saw that the GM trip didn't address those topics

Why I left It:
5/ It wasn't working; all the effort was futile, a waste. I was in it for God realization and it was going nowhere.
6/ It had become a religion. (Catholicism had already been enough religion for one lifetime)
7/ Premie bullshit - i.e., trip laying, guilt, etc.

8/ I didn't try to leave the cult - it just dried up over here in 1983. Within a few years I'd realised that the whole trip had been insanity and I no longer agreed with any of it any more. However, if you want the best reason of all why I never went back it's because Maharaji really WASN'T the Lord. Just a bare faced liar.
9/ I got to the point that I was so miserable
and hated being a premie so much, that I had to leave, and I didn't care if M's threats about going to hell were true or not. It was a question of survival.

10/ I found that what Maharaji was doing and what was going on in the cult, especially what I saw happening to people I cared about, attacking values I had held my whole life. I realized Maharaji didn't know, care about, or give a shit about the premies and never had.

11/ When I stopped believing in Maharaji, he just became an odd, greasy little Indian guy who was incredibly greedy. When I saw him at programs, I was repulsed, not attracted.

12/ Knowledge didn't work and it never had worked. We just told ourselves and each other over and over that it did. Meditation might help make you calm, but what Maharaji offered was just a religion, and a religion that was narcissistic, valueless and with no apparent purpose except to enrich Maharaji.

13/ It was clear that Maharaji's priority was not spreading knowledge, it was accumulating wealth.

14/ He was so angry at his mom for telling the truth about him that he refused to see her for 17 years 'till she finally died. He still refuses to see two of his brothers (his older brother claims that he, Bal BalgwanJi, is the TRUE master) and we are supposed to think he is the master of life and we are to love him.

15-32/ For those who appreciate...
· self-deception
· exploitation
· brainwashing
· credit card debts
· dysfunctional relationships
· using the word 'beautiful' a lot
· rewriting history
· drifting in and out of poverty
· getting headaches
· having mental backlashes
· listening to nauseating songs
· pedantic premie politics
· womanising hammer-tossing mahatmas
· the regurgitated teachings of Kabir
· pathetic misleading parables
· kissing pudgy Indian feet
· irritating non-premies
· buying overly priced tacky EV merchandise

33/ I hated being married to a premie even though I was one. It was great at first, lots of inspiration and hope for the future. We both felt we were doing 'The' thing to do in this life. Later when we had the usual conflicts that any couple do, he would 'satsang' me and give me guilt trips that it was my ego or lack of connection that was causing problems/ always with some arrogant assumption that HE was more 'connected' of course :) Then there was the pressure to attend all those dumb festivals. And the insistance on putting BM before ourselves and our marriage, even our kids! YUCK !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

34/ In my opinion, it definitely is NOT worth it.
would not recommend it to anyone. I found the meditation to be nice sometimes, but the cost of being involved with an authoritarian, deluded, megalomaniac like Maharaji is way too high. You'd be better off going to some Yoga meditation group, or practicing some form of self-help meditation that might make you calmerand more centered in your life. It's very hard to just take the meditation techniques and not get involed in the cult-worship that Maharaji is about. The aspriant process conditions someone to accept the 'gratitude' and 'master' trips which are pretty damaging, as evidenced by the what people who post here say. (on www.ex-premie.org) If people receive knowledge these days without ashrams and communitites, and don't give money, don't get involved in the organization, maybe go to programs once in a while, there might not be much damage on a material level. I think the stuff Maharaji talks about, his 'mind/knowledge' and 'mind/heart' duality along with his disdain for doing anything whatsoever to improve the condition of the world, are repugnant and harmful, per se, to many people.

35/ Quiet please, the lord has spoken,
All he wants is more devotion,
Send your love, or just a token
Sign that cheque today
First he's soothing, now he's raving
Premies stop your misbehaving
Are you drowning, or just waving?
(send it off today)

Quiet please, the lord is spouting,
First he's smiling, now he's shouting,
Let's have no more room for doubting
The kingdom's on its way
R.E.S.P.E.C.T.
Respect yourself? - no, respect me!
Here's my toes, now kissamee
(and sign that cheque today)

Quiet please, the lord's investing,
But fear not - he's still the best thing
Since sliced bread; he's only testing
What our concepts tell us.
For doubt might say 'he's not the lord,
He's just some avaricious fraud,
Insatiable for life's rewards
With crappy goods to sell us.

But one day when the lord's a-croaking
(Too much fine food, too much smoking
Too much wine and too much toking)
Who will lead the way?
Guru Prem, or Guru Wadi?
Guri Big-Ears? Guru Noddy?
Or will this wretched, stinking, shoddy
Cult just fade away?

Quiet please, the lard is talking,
Hokum peddling, humbug hawking,
Brandy guzzling, gopi porking,
(Yet divine, they say)
Pardon me for being rude
I think it needs be understood
Why Mr Rawat and his brood
Can rip 'em off this way.

It's when you let some 'inner feeling'
Cloud your judgement, set you reeling,
It's your rational mind he's stealing
- Get out right away!
RESPECT YOURSELF, respect your life,
Your lovers, friends, your husband, wife
Devotion just brings pain and strife
That's my 'thought for the day'.

36/ Rigid step-by-step procedures for video events and tracking of aspirants and premies. Everything is followed to the letter. Some rarely attend. They borrow the videos to watch at home.

37/ Few aspirants? It reminds of my vacuum cleaner sales days. In the 70's it was easy picking's, but now that people are wise to cults, you have to knock on a lot of doors.

38/. Big money problems. How can you donate monthly, chip in for the venue, instructors, videos, and fax machines, travelling, and Vision purchases, and support yourself on $25,000-35,000 per year?

39/ Time off work. Begging the boss for time off for the 1000th time.

40/ I realized and proved that there is no inner realtionship between Maharaji, the Perfat One, and Knowledge. PROOF: I stopped going to videos and could still feel and practise Knowledge.

41/ I revealed the techniques to an ex-aspirant and she had a nice inner experience. She said she cried, too!

http://www.ex-premie.org
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Date: Sun, Dec 13, 1998 at 16:30:46 (EST)
From: seymour
Email: seymour_t@rocketmail.com
To: Anon Anand
Subject: Print this out: 41 Doubts
Message:
Nice one Anon - althought I think the list may not be complete.
I can identify with many of them - maybe Brian should collate? all the good reasons for not becoming an ELK groupie and include them on the site.
Let's hope there are some aspirants out there listening.
All the best
Seymour
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Date: Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 04:20:14 (EST)
From: TD
Email: None
To: Anon Anand
Subject: Print this out: 41 Doubts
Message:
Great list AA! I think you've pretty well covered it!
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Date: Sat, Dec 12, 1998 at 17:49:23 (EST)
From: Gail MacDougall
Email: freedom@gtn.net
To: Everyone
Subject: I got nvited to Satellite rap
Message:
and I'm going to go. I'll tell you all about it tomorrow when I get home. Do you think they will let me in to the hall? Do you think I will received my donations tax receipt for 1998?
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Date: Sat, Dec 12, 1998 at 18:41:56 (EST)
From: nigel
Email: Nigel@redcrow.demon.co.uk
To: Gail MacDougall
Subject: Gail - Missing title letter...
Message:
'C'
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Date: Sat, Dec 12, 1998 at 21:35:40 (EST)
From: Sir David
Email: David.Studio57@btinternet.com
To: nigel
Subject: Gail - Missing title letter...
Message:
'T'
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Date: Sat, Dec 12, 1998 at 22:30:47 (EST)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Sir David
Subject: Gail - Missing title letter...
Message:
''E''
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Date: Sat, Dec 12, 1998 at 22:05:00 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Gail MacDougall
Subject: knocking on heaven's door
Message:
Gail,

Don't forget to take off your shoes if they still do that. And please, sit at least one person away from Madge, okay?

Can't wait to hear your report. I predict that Maharaji will:

1) Say a whole lot of uninteresting stuff about setting up the satellite links (maybe even with a slight mention of how 'expensive' it was);

2) Say how we have to 'really ....[understand, appreciate, take a look, remember, make that effort, go within, not get stuck in our {jobs, minds, lives, intentions, thoughts, concepts, feelings, etc}];

3) Introduce one new buzz word with great relish as if now, at last, with this new magic pill, the sky might finally open for everyone.

4) Talk about how hard things used to be in them golden oldie days, how hard it was for Shri Maharaji, having to ride Mata Ji from town to town, so he could share his little gift of love. How Shri Maharaji had so few trinkets for sale and never enjoyed having his every word documented on video for sale around the world.

5) Talk about how 'beautiful' it was on his birthday because so-and-so came over and it was just so so-and-so and that's why we hve to really so-and-so.

6) Play with the interactivity of the satellite broadcast a bit by letting some premies somewhere else sing him a song or something.

7) Hint at the possibility that we can do this all again because it was really so beautiful just to come together and realize that thing again because, as Kabir says...

8) Remind the premies that it's really so easy, it's so simple, it's so natural YET, at the same time, it's so important to not lose sight of the master because it is so tricky, so slippery out there.

9) Thank the editors of ELK for helping allow this opprtunity for appreciation and gratitude to unfold in the love for the one who brings the gift to the giver .. sorry, FROM the giver .. to the people.

10) Remind the premies once again that it's really beautiful yet, if you want to be sick, you can throw up all you want but that's just because, on this great, beautiful cruise, where everything's so placid and the captain is waiting for you at the captain's table and there's so much love, you've stupidly brought a video of the movie 'Titanic' with you on board and are making yourself ill watching it on the vcr in your cabin. You're about ready to put on your life vest and say your final 'hail mary's' when the captain send someone down to your cabin to see what's taking you so long. Only then do you realize that you have a choice: watch your movie of death and destruction or join the captain at his table for the most beautiful cruise of a lifetime! (There, Maharaji, there's your christmas present. One new retread piece of stupidity you can eat up the clock with.)
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Date: Sun, Dec 13, 1998 at 14:41:32 (EST)
From: Barney
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: knocking on heaven's door
Message:
Jim,

how do you know all this stuff?
when did you leave it?
are you buying and watching videos?

your summary is dead-on, like you're still right in there
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Date: Sat, Dec 12, 1998 at 14:27:35 (EST)
From: Brian
Email: brian@ex-premie.org
To: Everyone
Subject: Reigate Blueprints
Message:
I've been sent the prints for residence in Reigate, along with a print of the grounds. I can see why his lordship needs a bigger house, as there isn't much room for the kids in this one. No dumbwaiters either, unless you count the unpaid servants.

The grounds show landmarks referred to as the house, cottage, stables, potting sheds, garage, tennis court, and something that looks like a lake(???) on the property.

The drawing of the house denotes that it is a 'proposed' floorplan. I'm assuming that the building was pre-existing, but the use for the particular rooms was the part that was being proposed at the time.

What I'll do is put what I have online and then go back and make any corrections that you all might want to make as to what is currently what. I've been told that there has been a new garage built in the meantime. This will take a bit of time, so be patient.

Also, can anyone confirm whether that is in fact a lake? Can't imagine what else it could be, but the plans don't indicate what it is.

*****************************************

I also received a copy of the examination that instructor applicants had to take circa 1988 in order to test them for whatever intelligence might not have been rooted out yet. I'll get that online first, probably.

Sample question:

1. He's completely lacking in courage; he's a ______.

a) fool
b) thief
c) vandal
d) coward

Evidently, applicants had to know Maharaji well in order to answer this one correctly...
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Date: Sat, Dec 12, 1998 at 15:23:55 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Brian
Subject: The what??
Message:
Brian,

You've got to be kidding about the questionnaire. But of course you're not. That's incredible and I can't wait. By the way, the revised journey's index is MUCH better and may move more people to contribute to and read those stories. Al the changes you've been making to the site recently are really, good improvements, I think. AND you've been pretty funny recently. Not quite as funny as Jon, Mark, Josie and Colin but funny in a different way. Thanks.
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Date: Sat, Dec 12, 1998 at 16:10:53 (EST)
From: Barney
Email: None
To: Brian
Subject: Mata Ji was right - $$$
Message:
Reigate
Malibu
Gulfstream
a new yacht?
Australian residence
Delhi
(what other residences are there? Does BM own them or the 'church'?)

BM's alleged assets all seem to come to the Forum in dribbles. It would be most interesting to compile the list in one place in order get completely overwhelmed and sickened.

In contrast to the alleged wealth are the efforts in fund raising that we've seen BM do with his Power Mac presentation and from travelling PAMs that paint such a bleak picture of on the verge of going under unless everybody ups their monthly ante.

The whole damn thing seems to be about BM's personal aggrandizement (wake up, Barney!) It's quite amazing that as premies we did such a good job in explaining it away to ourselves and critics. The alleged yacht, though, has gotta make that job a little bit more difficult. How a yacht has any function in spreading knowledge is beyond me. Although, the yacht thing sure helped Scientology and L. Ron Hubbard - ha, ha! The joke being that supposedly L. Ron might have been dead for years, but proving that because he lived on the yacht was difficult.
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Date: Sat, Dec 12, 1998 at 16:19:42 (EST)
From: Ed Cramp
Email: eac@emgsrus.com
To: Brian
Subject: Reigate Blueprints
Message:
Put up the prints and I'll take a look at them - I assume that the 'Reigate house' is the swiss chalet on top of the hill? There was no lake there when the WPC started renting it - I think that there was a small pond off on one side but it was never in great shape.
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Date: Sat, Dec 12, 1998 at 23:40:19 (EST)
From: Brian
Email: brian@ex-premie.org
To: Ed Cramp
Subject: Reigate Blueprints
Message:
Got your Journeys entry, Ed. I'll probably get it online in the morning (Ohio time). What I read as I glanced over it was pretty interesting. Thanks for sending it!
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Date: Sat, Dec 12, 1998 at 19:38:27 (EST)
From: nigel
Email: nigel@redcrow.demon.co.uk
To: Brian
Subject: I remember the lake...
Message:
but it isn't quite Michigan. More like a sizeable duckpond, as I (& Ed) remember. I think Sir David spent more time there than I did. Perhaps he could help.

It is almost twenty years since I did service at Reigate, so maybe they've done some landscaping. There is certainly enough land if he wanted to build a lake. And which living lord wouldn't want his own lake to float a few lilies or lotus flowers on, as a physically manifested metaphor of the master's status? But back then, I suppose, Hansi might have needed somewhere to sail his clockwork motor boat for five minutes, once a year.

I spent a weekend at Reigate shovelling and wheelbarrowing hardcore around the place - even though I'm one skinny bastard, not built for the job. I'm still hoping that, in the spirit of reciprocal altruism, Mr Rawat will turn up at my house and sort out the mess of my postage stamp back yard. The exercise, at least, might do him good. If it got like hard work, he could think of it as My Lila, which - for reasons unknown to him - will benefit Mr Rawat's spiritual development. I keep plenty of cigarettes in the fridge, so whenever you're ready, Marge...
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Date: Sat, Dec 12, 1998 at 21:56:24 (EST)
From: Sir David
Email: David.Studio57@btinternet.com
To: nigel
Subject: I remember the lake...
Message:
Ha ha ha! I like the bit about keeping cigarettes in the fridge. I mean what eccentric millionaire perfect master god incarnate doesn't!? You should also keep your mala and Krishna crown in there too, if you want to follow god's example properly.

Yep, I was there about 20 years ago to but never went back after setting fire to the Lord's tree. I was surprised by the number of farm animals there; goats, a cow or two, horses, pigs and chickens. In my then dumb way I thought that they must be the luckiest animals around to be living at the Lord's house. I liked the goats and pigs alot, they were very friendly. Just a duck pond when I was there too.

By the way, my house and garden are a mess so do you think if I tell people I'm God they'll come and do the repairs and gardening for free and thank me for the privilege?
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Date: Fri, Dec 11, 1998 at 22:39:41 (EST)
From: Gail
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Christmas Ornaments for MJ's
Message:
tree. Two years ago, I had the pleasure of contributing $30 toward an ornament for MJ's Christmas tree. Can you believe it? Anne Johnston was commission (without the commission) to create an ornament for the divine one's tree. She and a couple of the premies here in London made it. MJ said it was the best decoration he received. This is really something considering that every country sent him one.

When I think of it, why would the Lard of the Universe be celebrating a pagan festival like Christmas. I suppose he needed a special place in his house for all the gifts he would receive daily. I wonder if he still eats a bite out of every chocolate he receives in his darshan lines (remember when we were told not to give him chocolates anymore). You can't build a house or buy a jet with chocolates.
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Date: Fri, Dec 11, 1998 at 23:45:33 (EST)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Gail
Subject: Christmas Ornaments for MJ's
Message:
Thirty dollars is my entire budget for my husband's xmas gift this year. That's a lot of money (to me). I'm not kidding. God, why didn;t we see through this materialistic creep?
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Date: Sat, Dec 12, 1998 at 04:29:11 (EST)
From: srb
Email: None
To: Helen
Subject: Christmas Ornaments for MJ's
Message:
We didn't listen to his mom.
She announced to the world that he was 'lost in
materialism'
among other complaints.
The 'lila' crap was so deep and his delusion
so large that -MOM- was dismissed as a hindu crank.

and his 'eldest bro', the reincarnation of jesus and brahma,
was appointed by mom and given one of his dad's ring's
because at least he would be an reasonably responsible
guru-hindu style.
Of course big bro has a couple thousand suckers in his ashrams.
but, that's india. a lost land if there ever was one.
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Date: Sat, Dec 12, 1998 at 09:04:59 (EST)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: srb
Subject: Christmas Ornaments for MJ's
Message:
That is interesting that his mom denounced him because of his materialism. He really seems like some kind of spoiled little Monarch whose material demands are impossible to keep up with. I am just sickened that we overlooked that during the years of following him.
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Date: Sat, Dec 12, 1998 at 12:58:43 (EST)
From: gerry
Email: glyng@techline.com
To: Helen
Subject: Was it you Helen...
Message:
who wanted a copy of Three Continents?

Let me know by e-mail or through Katie. Be glad to send it to you.
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Date: Sat, Dec 12, 1998 at 15:36:07 (EST)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Was it you Helen...
Message:
Thanks Gerry, I just sent an em to Robyn who also has it. I'll look forward to discussing the book with you Robyn and Katie once I read it. Thanks for looking out for me(:
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Date: Sat, Dec 12, 1998 at 08:05:01 (EST)
From: TD
Email: None
To: Gail
Subject: Christmas Ornaments for MJ's
Message:
Unbelievable Gail! And what's more - I bet he had Christmas trees set up in all his residences around the world that he wasn't even in, but are always kept warm and comfy just in case he should make a surprise visit. Anyway here's a Chrissie tree ornament joke for you...

One particular Christmas season, a long time ago, Santa was getting ready for his annual trip but there were problems everywhere. Four of his elves got sick and the trainee elves did not produce the toys as fast as the regular elves, so Santa was beginning to feel the pressure of being behind schedule. Then Mrs. Claus told Santa her mom was coming to visit. This really stressed Santa!

When he went to harness the reindeer he found three of them were about to give birth and two had jumped the fence and were out, heaven knows where. More stress. Then when he began to load the sleigh, one of the boards cracked and the toy bag fell to the ground and scattered the toys. Becoming frustrated, Santa went into the house for a cup of coffee and a shot of whiskey. When he went to the cupboard he discovered the elves had hid the liquor and there was nothing to drink.

In his frustration, he accidentally dropped the coffee pot and it broke in to hundreds of little pieces, all over the kitchen floor. Santa went to get the broom and discovered that mice had eaten the straw it was made from. Just then the doorbell rang and he began cussing on his way to the door. He opened the door and there was a little angel with a great big Christmas tree.

The angel said, very cheerfully, 'Merry Christmas, Santa. Isn't it just a lovely day? I have a beautiful tree for you. Isn't it just lovely? Where would you like me to stick it?'

Thus began the tradition of the little angel on top of the Christmas tree.
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Date: Sat, Dec 12, 1998 at 09:01:51 (EST)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: TD
Subject: HA!
Message:
Great story, TD, I love it.
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Date: Sun, Dec 13, 1998 at 19:04:12 (EST)
From: Nimrod
Email: None
To: Gail
Subject: Christmas Ornaments for MJ's
Message:
Ann also nailed me for $30 for that ornament.I wonder how many other people she got to contribute $30 for what was supposed to be a ' simple,homemade, little ornament.'
Personally, I think Annie Banannie deserves a good spanking!!
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Date: Sun, Dec 13, 1998 at 23:30:24 (EST)
From: Gail
Email: None
To: Nimrod
Subject: Christmas Ornaments for MJ's
Message:
Hi there. Another Canuck bites the dust, eh? Maybe Anne fleeced the entire country-side. She was stone broke while she lived here in London. I suggested that she apply for welfare a few times, but she was too proud to degrade herself to that (not the same as kissing the toenails, I guess). She expressed concern that it might bring MJ into disrepute. She didn't mind getting help from premies though. A lot of us were in awe of St. Anne and were willing to share. She was good to us too.

Did you ever get to see the ornament or a picture of it? I know she sent pictures around (I declined my copy).
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Date: Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 16:47:50 (EST)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Gail
Subject: What was it made of?
Message:
Gail: You know, I have to ask that question. If many of the premies in each country gave 30 bucks towards a single ornament from that country.... MAN, that's one heck of an ornament. Don't tell me... They were made of solid gold.... please don't tell me that, please!
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Date: Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 19:23:33 (EST)
From: Gail
Email: None
To: Mike
Subject: What was it made of?
Message:
Actually, it was made out of a carved-out styrofoam ball. It had Canada written on it and a little scene inside. When I looked at it, I couldn't figure out why it cost so much ($30 plus some cash from the others here in town). Little did I know that Nimrod contributed too.

She did do a good job on it though. I doubt that she would have kept any of the cash for herself. Maybe MJ liked the ornament so much because it was wrapped in green backs instead of tissue paper. I don't know.
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