Ex-Premie.Org |
Forum III Archive # 34 | |
From: Dec 30, 1998 |
To: Jan 12, 1999 |
Page: 1 Of: 5 |
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Date: Fri, Jan 08, 1999 at 14:27:06 (EST)
From: david m Email: None To: Everyone Subject: the taking of a life Message: First of all thanks so much to all of you that sent me the kindest and most thoughtfull email msgs..since last saturday morning my life has been changed..i lost the most precious person that walked on this earth..she was 24 and lived with my first wife an expremie...she was so smart and beautifull...a librarian at the troy mich library...she and her new boyfriend sat up late fri night and had the time of their lives...when my exwife found her sat morning..she had started the car and ran a hose inside..the window..and took her life...nothing could be done..so i wanted to explain..the situation here ....i need to get some sleep only had about 10 hours all week so thanks again to everyone...i hope i will be able to hang arround the forum but for now please take care of your loved ones.. tell them that you love and care about them..and you guys with kids..stay close with them there so precious...loveand peace..your friend david m Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jan 08, 1999 at 14:29:30 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: david m Subject: Peace Dave....(nt) Message: nt Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jan 08, 1999 at 14:34:36 (EST)
From: Helen Email: None To: david m Subject: We're thinking of you Message: Oh David, I am so sorry. This is such horrendous news, a nightmare. I will do exactly as you say and hold my loved ones close. We take so much for granted. I'll keep you in my thoughts. try to get some rest and eat, let your friends and family take over some of your responsibilites and take care of yourself. Email me if you feel like it--HelenRDC@aol.com Love, helen Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jan 08, 1999 at 15:00:12 (EST)
From: Anon Email: None To: david m Subject: the taking of a life Message: What a dreadful time this must be for you. I have 2 young children and it's unimaginable to think of any harm coming to them. I have every intention of staying very close to them. Your reminder, under the tragic circumstances, is very potent. My heart goes out to you and your ex-wife. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jan 08, 1999 at 15:08:40 (EST)
From: VP Email: None To: david m Subject: the taking of a life Message: You and your ex-wife have my very deepest empathy, david. Go easy on yourself. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jan 08, 1999 at 21:12:49 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: VP Subject: the taking of a life Message: David, I don't know what to say other than I -- we -- are here for you if that means anything. I'm really sorry for you. Take care, Jim Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jan 08, 1999 at 15:13:16 (EST)
From: eb Email: None To: david m Subject: the taking of a life Message: Dear david m, My thoughts and prayers are with you and your family. I will go home and hug all my kids tonight and tell them how much I love them. With love, eb Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jan 08, 1999 at 15:32:10 (EST)
From: bobby Email: None To: david m Subject: the taking of a life Message: So sorry David. I know it's very hard. The kids are precious and so are we all. Love, best wishes and blessings for your daughter, you and your family. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jan 08, 1999 at 15:54:15 (EST)
From: Sir David Email: david.studio57@btinternet.com To: david m Subject: the taking of a life Message: What can I say, David? There's tears running down my face. You are in my thoughts. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jan 08, 1999 at 16:07:51 (EST)
From: shp Email: None To: david m Subject: the taking of a life Message: my extreme consolences, david may your golden memories with her comfort you in the days to come and may the appreciation of her life having touched yours if even for a short time soothe your grief as time goes by Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jan 08, 1999 at 16:31:46 (EST)
From: Katie Email: None To: david m Subject: the taking of a life Message: Dear David - Life can be so sad sometimes! I hope that you and your family are coping with your daughter's death - it's got to be very hard on all of you, and I know it's a wound that will take time to heal. I am glad you are getting some sleep, and I hope you are giving yourself time to grieve as well. Please e-mail any of us, or post on the forum, if you need support - we will be there for you if you need us. Lots of love, Katie Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jan 08, 1999 at 16:41:54 (EST)
From: RT Email: --- To: david Subject: a life Message: Dear David, I am so sorry to hear of your loss...it makes me sad. Please rest up, and breath deeply. You are in a high stress factor. Long walks with family may help. A lot of vitamins for all your family will help a little, as you take time to grieve. Remember the joy she brought you. May you have Peace. RT Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jan 08, 1999 at 17:09:37 (EST)
From: Mickey the Pharisee Email: None To: david m Subject: Peace Message: I'm so sorry to hear of your loss. I keep you and yours in my prayers. This is a tough time and I agree with the others here, be sure to get some rest and exercise at this stressful time. Michael Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jan 08, 1999 at 17:11:04 (EST)
From: Saul Email: None To: david m Subject: the taking of a life Message: Peace sir David. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jan 08, 1999 at 18:57:17 (EST)
From: Gail Email: None To: David Subject: taking of a life Message: I hope you and your family are starting to feel a little better. Gail Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jan 09, 1999 at 11:53:52 (EST)
From: Sir David Email: None To: Saul Subject: To avoid confusion Message: I'd like to point out that there's two people called David who post on this forum. There's David M who has recently suffered the loss of his daughter and who this thread is about. There's also myself, Sir David. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jan 08, 1999 at 21:38:24 (EST)
From: chr Email: None To: david m Subject: the taking of a life Message: My deepest sympathies are with you.I have a daughter a couple of years older and two other children.I have no idea what I would do or how I would cope if I lost any of them.My wifes and my prayers will be with you. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jan 09, 1999 at 01:31:57 (EST)
From: bill Email: None To: David M. Subject: the love of a life Message: There is a saying: when you are born, you cry and everyone else is happy. when you die, YOU are happy and everyone else cries. Sounds right somehow. There are many stories about those at the moment of death saying things that are very reassuring. I know of one old woman who raised her hands and said 'Mother!' and died. Sam Kinison the comedian was in a car wreck and he was lying by the road and a few people heard him say with closed eyes 'I dont want to die, no, uh, oh, alright, ok, ok.' And his voice changed during that into a positive sounding feeling. And he died as he finished the sentence. I have a friend that was 21 and committed suicide and they said he had smile on his face. A relative sang two religious songs in his hospital bed and said 'my angels are here for me' and died. Many stories of kindness and welcoming. Kindness rules ultimately even though here on earth human nature rules unevenly. You love her, she loves you, it is not wild speculation to guess that she doesn't want you to spend any time in hell. Whatever got her for that moment released her and the kindness welcomed her with open arms and made her happy in spite of her loss. The ultimate kindness will reunite you two again. Complete healing and happiness will be yours in that promise of the loving friend. Please have that confidence in the true love that ultimately rules the hearts. Agony is not what she wants for her dear old dad. I hope this is helpful rather than annoying, The only way I bypassed severe trauma during my fathers death was I believed he was happy and that I would see him again because love rules--ultimately. My wife had a dream and my father was in it and he said to her 'tell bill -first things first one step at a time- and he will know that it was me' He had died 15 years before I met her and she never knew that was one of the sayings he repeated to me as I grew up. The kindness exists and helps guide the humans in the direction of loving interactions with each other and life. Human nature and free will make it challenging. For some time now I have had a fear of losing a child because the bond is so great it would crush me. A letter to ann landers by a mom of a deceased son was revealing. The mom said that many people thought that they should not bring up the subject after the funeral because they would hurt the mom further. But the mother said that when someone would ask her about her son she found it was the best thing for her to be able to tell someone about that child and describe her son to others. To talk about that special relationship openly and express her heart about him to others was a joy and a healing. We are here for you and at some point we can have some threads about your daughter if you would like. bill Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jan 09, 1999 at 12:06:34 (EST)
From: Sir David Email: None To: bill Subject: the love of a life Message: Thanks Bill. That's probably helpful to quite a few of us here since we have all been parted from loved ones. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sun, Jan 10, 1999 at 09:44:28 (EST)
From: Helen Email: None To: Bill Subject: the love of a life Message: I agree, Bill. I found your words very helpful and comforting, they were not annoying at all. I did not know that story about Sam Kinneson--what a great story Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jan 08, 1999 at 22:59:23 (EST)
From: barney Email: None To: david m Subject: the taking of a life Message: Someone close to me died along time ago. It was quite a shock because I assumed that they would have been around longer and not have left forever so abruptly. Take care. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jan 09, 1999 at 00:08:09 (EST)
From: nigel Email: nigel@redcrow.demon.co.uk To: david m Subject: the taking of a life Message: David, I'm so sorry to hear this. Nobody, least of all you - from the impressions I have of you - deserves something like this to happen. Like others have have already said, we're all here, if and when. To talk or just listen...email or whatever... Meanwhile, try and get some rest. Peace and deepest sympathies to you and your ex-wife. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jan 09, 1999 at 00:29:56 (EST)
From: peter Email: None To: david m Subject: the taking of a life Message: She was lucky to have a father who thought so much of her. I'm sorry that she's gone. Peace. Peter Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jan 09, 1999 at 05:44:10 (EST)
From: op Email: None To: david m Subject: the taking of a life Message: I barely know who you are, so please forgive me if I seem to speak out of turn, but my heart is also touched, and longs to be part of that wreath of support that surrounds you here. I have a daughter the same age, and I know the fears and joys that go with parenthood. And the tendency we have to blame ourselves, to try to find the way that I could have done something to prevent it, to try to find the reasons in something I did wrong a long time ago. I hope that you are at peace with yourself, and know the blessing that it was for your daughter to be with you as long as she was. And I also know, from having lost loved ones in my life, that there is nothing that can appease the anger and the feeling of abandonment. Except, to some extent, the passing of time. For me, in my greatest losses, the realization that the connection had not been severed often came in dreams. These dreams also helped me sort out my feelings and bring my life back into focus. So, if I may, I wish you beautiful dreams, dreams of discovery and dreams of comfort. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jan 09, 1999 at 12:38:20 (EST)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: david m Subject: the taking of a life Message: Dear David, Let me just add my feelings of sorrow for the lose of your daughter. My friend who lost her 7yr old son talked so much about him. I think she became obsessed with the whole process but she kept talking and still talks more with joy about him now, 9 years later. Love, Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jan 09, 1999 at 18:31:11 (EST)
From: david m Email: None To: everyone Subject: the taking of a life Message: Hey Guys..... You are all tremendous...I can't really talk to well right now but thanks so much for all of your support...keep up the effort to expose M for what he really is...love and peace...david m Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Jan 11, 1999 at 15:14:12 (EST)
From: Selene Email: None To: david m Subject: the taking of a life Message: Dear david I am so sorry. As Jim said, we are here for you if you need us. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Jan 11, 1999 at 19:14:42 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: david m Subject: the taking of a life Message: David, I just came back to the forum and read about your loss. I read your post and I felt very sad. I guess there isn't anything to say except I'm very sorry. Joe Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jan 07, 1999 at 23:54:39 (EST)
From: barney Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Pirate Broadcasts from Yacht Message: Ok, I'm really curious about the yacht that Maharaji supposedly owns. What's the scoop on this? How big? How many gold plated toilets (or heads as they say?) Now, as a premie up until recently I could easily understand the need for a fancy jet with trans-oceanic range. Having Maharaji travel commercially creates all sorts of security issues and is probably exhausting on the poor guy. And with your own jet you don't have to make connections. Let's face it, travelling can be exhausting and sometimes you end up stuck somewhere or lose your luggage. Although, I really don't know what kind of corporate smoke and mirrors he uses to own the jet. One typical option is that he owns it, but he leases it to EV. Who knows? But, a yacht? Hmmm? How does a premie rationalize that? Obviously, iff Maharaji was to use a yacht to travel to programs it would not be very efficient. Ok, maybe he could have a crew sail it up and down the west coast when he does programs in San Diego, Long Beach, Santa Monica, San Francisco, Portland, Seattle, and Vancouver and he would have a secure and free place to stay. Then there's Miami and the east coast. South America, too. Now, all of this is a real stretch. Ok, how about this? Assume Phase II is Satellite Broadcasts. Assume Maharaji wants to save money and steal the bandwidth instead of paying for it. So, he heads offshore and starts beaming his spiel up to the satellites. And, please, nobody tell me about all the technical reasons why this wouldn't work because I'm trying to give Maharaji every break that I can to avoid being completely unreasonable and unfair. Indeed, the growth of his personal wealth is the only viable part of the whole damn business. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jan 08, 1999 at 00:58:33 (EST)
From: dv Email: None To: barney Subject: Pirate Broadcasts from Yacht Message: It's part of his plan to retire. With a yacht he can be very flexible in executing phase two- skip the country. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jan 08, 1999 at 04:04:54 (EST)
From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: barney Subject: Pirate Broadcasts from Yacht Message: The only expensive stuff in satellite broadcast is the sending equipment: you need a studio, 1 or 2 technicians, a big dish antenna (could be on a truck), altogether some 1000s $/hour. Renting a channel on some unused satellite is unexpensive, hundred $/hour, maybe much less! I've investigated this with a specialist. Or you may use video conference equipments, that's what EV very likely did for countries/places where there are no premies technicians to operate satellite receivers, thus explaining how EV has been able to do it. These facilities are quite expensive, and I don't think they'll be able to do that very often. I think the BM did this to do some kind of a big new style audiovisual show introducing his 'Phase II' retirement project. He won't keep much premies with this, very likely most of the die-hard, as long as they won't get involved in some other new-age stuff (many already are), and get less involved with EV's BS as their therapies get more advanced (quite some do this too, and are less and less active, leaving EV with virtually nobody to run the organization, except 'new' premies on which the BM has no hold yet). This is the general feeling I get from the conversations I have with my premies friends. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jan 08, 1999 at 13:53:47 (EST)
From: barney Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: wish I could retire soon Message: So, Maharaji has had enough of the working life, huh? Wish I hadn't wasted so many years operating under his No future for you philosophy. I suppose I could consider retiring at some decent age instead of having to work until I goddamn die to make up for my lost years. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jan 08, 1999 at 11:01:04 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: barney Subject: Oh good, now premies Message: can be galley-slaves aboard the perfect hamster's personal yacht! How perfect, how beautiful, how wonderful, HOW REDICULOUS! Yeah, this is important for propagation! I'm 'hearing' the music from the roman galley scene in Ben Hur, right at the moment! ..... RAMMING SPEEEED..... he he he Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jan 07, 1999 at 21:31:51 (EST)
From: Steve A Email: None To: Everyone Subject: False Teachers Message: The following appeared in the fourth quarter, 1997 issue of 'Amritanandam' Here the woman known as Ammachi addresses the issue of false teachers, and the harm they do to innocent followers. Maybe 'M' could learn something from Ammachi? 'Mother's Message' 'Darling Children, A satguru will always set an example for his disciples. A true master, even though he is beyond all laws and limitations, must strictly adhere to moral and ethical values. Only then will he be an example to others. If the guru says, 'Look, I am everything, and therefore I can do whatever I like; simply obey me and do as I tell you,' this will only harm the disciple. A true master will never do such things. All the great masters of the past, the ancient saints and sages, were perfect, living examples of our highest and most noble values. Even if the guru is beyond the body, and devoid of all human weaknesses, the disciples are not. They are still identified with the body and the ego, and they therefore need a living example, an embodiment of the divine qualities, to hold on to. The disciples draw all their inspiration from the master. A true master, therefore, places great importance on morality and ethics.' 'Surrender isn't something that can be forced by the master. Surrender happens naturally within the disciple. There is a change in his attitude, in his understanding, and in the way he does things. A change takes place in the inner world; the whole focus of life changes. A true master, however, will never force the disciple to surrender. To force in any way would be harmful, like the injury done to a flower bud if you were to forcefully open its petals. Such force would destroy the flower. Opening up is something that happens spontaneously, provided the conducive circumstances are created. The master creates the necessary situations for this opening up to happen. In reality, a true master is not a person; he is not the body, for, he has no ego. His body is just an instrument that he carries around, so that he can be in this world for the benefit of the people. Two persons can force ideas on each other because they are identified with their egos, but a satguru, who is an embodiment of the Supreme Consciousness, cannot force anything on anyone, because he is beyond the body and the mind. The master is like open space or the boundless sky. He simply exists.' 'If someone tries to force their rules or ideas on you, you should know that he is a false teacher, even if he claims to be a Self-realized master. A true master makes no claims about anything. He is simply there. He doesn't care whether you surrender to him or not. If you surrender, you will be benefited; if you don't surrender, you will remain the same. In either case, the master is untouched. He doesn't worry about anything.' 'In the mere presence of a true master, opening up just happens naturally. The master doesn't do anything in particular for this to happen. He is the only one who can train you without teaching you directly. His very presence automatically creates a constant wave of situations, wherein you are able to experience the Supreme in all its fullness. But there is no force involved, nor does he make any claims.' 'There are many sincere aspirants who have been deeply wounded in the past. Only a satguru can heal those wounds. The satguru is not a person; he is Pure Consciousness manifested in human form. Don't have any judgment, prejudices, or preconceived ideas; there's no need to trust him or distrust him. Go to a true master and simply be in his presence. His presence, his touch, look and words will heal you, provided you have the right attitude.' 'Some people ask what the guru owes the student. A true master, who is one with the entire universe, doesn't owe anything to anyone. Does the universe owe anything to anyone! Does the ocean, the sun, the stars, the mountains or rivers owe anything to anyone? They simply exist. You can use the master's presence to attain the highest state of happiness. If you don't take advantage of his presence, you are the loser. Surrender will develop within you from the tremendous inspiration you receive through the master's physical presence, for the master is the embodiment of all divine qualities. In the master, you observe true surrender and acceptance, and thus you are given a real example that you can relate to.' 'The essential principles of all religions teach love, peace, and harmony. The spiritual masters have never preached selfishness, nor have they ever encouraged people to treat each other unjustly fight each other. Problems do not lie in religion or spiritual. They are within the human mind. The conflicts and problems that exist today, in the name of religion, are due to the lack of proper understanding about religious principles.' 'In this modern age, people live more from their minds than from their hearts. The mind is confusing. The mind is the dwelling place of selfishness and unrighteousness. The mind is the seat of all our doubts, and the intellect is the seat of the ego. When you dwell entirely in the mind and ego, you are not concerned about others; you are thinking only about yourself, and about wealth, power, and recognition. Intellectuals interpret the teachings of the scriptures and the masters of their religions to suit their own ideas, and unsuspecting people fall easy prey to those distorted definitions of the truth and end up in conflict with themselves and others. This is what is happening in our society.' 'The intellectuals become leaders and revered advisors. Their followers idealize them and worship them as God. In fact, God has been forgotten; the truth and the essential principles of religion, the very purpose of religion and religious practices, are being ignored.' 'Unfortunately most religions are led by such intellectuals. Only a soul filled with love and compassion can guide humanity and throw a light on the path of religion. Such a master alone can unite people and help them to understand the true import of religion and religious principles. But the heart has been forgotten.' 'No one who has any real understanding of religion can blame religion and the true religious masters for the present day calamities which are taking place in the name of religion. It is the fault of the pseudo- religious teachers and not their innocent followers. The so-called teachers want to force their own ideas and evil visions on others. Their egos crave attention, and because of their greed for recognition, they have made innocent believers pray to them--to their egos. Their innocent followers have full faith in their words, in their false interpretations. The intellect (the ego) is much more powerful than the mind. The mind is intrinsically weak. The intellect has determination, whereas the mind is always doubting, vacillating, and unsteady. The intellectual interpreters of almost all religions have the determination to convince people. Their enormous egos and their determination can easily overpower the followers of any religion, and thus they win their victory over innocent believers. Such intellectuals are completely lacking in real faith, love, or compassion. Their mantra is money, power, and prestige. Therefore, do not blame religion, spirituality, or the true masters for the problems in the world today, there is nothing wrong with spirituality or religion. The problem lies in the human mind.' Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jan 07, 1999 at 22:59:16 (EST)
From: shp Email: None To: Steve A Subject: False Teachers article Message: thank you for making that post i read it and i am going to print it out and also bookmark it. it was very easy to digest went right in like good food. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jan 08, 1999 at 00:13:27 (EST)
From: bill Email: None To: shp Subject: Fantasy dogma article Message: Hello shp. I had my trip postponed a few days. The hindu dogma is not impressive and is loaded with gaping holes. If you were serious about thinking it was good food, I will make the effort to help you out about this brand of confusion. were you impressed with this or not. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jan 08, 1999 at 01:33:47 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: bill Subject: How to detect fake unicorns Message: Thanks for the article, Steve, but, in my opinion, all masters are fake. Some play their role a little straighter than others, that's all. Some are sincere, some aren't. They're still all fake. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jan 08, 1999 at 10:54:32 (EST)
From: Helen Email: None To: Steve/Jim Subject: Ditching morals 4 realization- Message: The only part I like was that a spiritual teacher (I hate this word 'Master' now) should follow the highest moral standards. I didn't like the corollary idea that a master is really above morals and ethics (since morals are of this world and tied in with the ego) but should condescend themselves to practice them as a model for their devotees. What??? The implication is that once one achieves god-realization, morals and ethics are sort of superfluous because they are of the world and ego. I just don't follow this logic. This hindu trip is so much about putting faith in the god-realization/transcendence model. I just don't think we can transcend. Yes, maybe for a few blissful moments in meditation, sports, and sex (or eating a delicious meal--ha ha) but here we are in these bodies, interacting with and living with one another. I prefer an idea that morals and ethics are part of God's nature, I don't like this idea that God's nature is 'above' morals. Otherwise I just see all kinds of potential for spiritual ego, which I think is the worst kind. I guess I'm kinda Jewish in my thinking--I don't think we are 'eternal'--I think this is it, man--this life is IT. SOmehow this thought, that this life is IT, has been a tremendous relief to me. I know that doesn't make sense, but so be it. The idea of whirling around on karma's wheel of fortune for many lives to come is not comforting to me at all. Jim--someone emailed me who has been trying to email you. What is your current em address? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jan 08, 1999 at 12:27:14 (EST)
From: Jethro Email: None To: Jim Subject: How to detect fake unicorns Message: I wonder how many of the people involved with 'masters' have ever looked at how they got fed the concept of 'true master'? It's a bit like 'when diod you stop beating your wife?'syndrome. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jan 08, 1999 at 08:27:58 (EST)
From: shp Email: None To: bill Subject: reply to bill Message: let me look at it again slower when i have time and i'll get back to you it may be a little while gotta do and go Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jan 08, 1999 at 10:47:28 (EST)
From: Way Email: None To: shp Subject: False Teachers article Message: If you like Ammachi's take on satgurus, you might also want to digest these sweet tidbits from our Divine Mother's website: If we waste this life living like animals, we will have to be born again as animals before attaining another human birth. Television is telepoison. Those unmarried should conserve their vital energy by maintaining celibacy. Everytime we have sex, we should ask, 'isn't this only draining my strength?' One baby is enough. It is good to take laxitives twice a month. Chant your mantra constantly. Do not listen to those who malign masters. When we wake up in the morning, we should rise up on our right sides. When feeding children, we should think that we are feeding our beloved diety. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jan 08, 1999 at 12:13:33 (EST)
From: Jethro Email: None To: Way Subject: You win first prize Message: for puting up the most supreme drivel. Way......you're having us on?(I hope) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jan 08, 1999 at 12:34:11 (EST)
From: Way Email: None To: Jethro Subject: You win first prize Message: I am NOT making this stuff up. It comes verbatim from the 'Official Ammachi Homepage' at ammachi.org Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jan 07, 1999 at 21:28:17 (EST)
From: chr Email: None To: Everyone Subject: I've just been to the archives Message: too, and I'm really pissed off. Those premies who seem to think that M has no responsibility for premie suicides or problems in their lives,that somehow the problem belongs to those premies themselves,that they had free will etc,perhaps you're forgetting'Surrender the reins of your life to me and I will give you peace' or 'Give me your mind,I know what to do with it' or at the ashram satsang at Hans Jayanti in 79 when he said to give him all our love ,every aspect and that married premies couldnt really dedicate because they had to give some of their lives and love to their partners.There was no room for free will or clarity in all this -not if you really wanted to do what he said to do.' Protector of the weary and the weak'-the only thing M ever protected was his own interests.While some of us were dedicating our lives and money and heads and hearts to M,he was indulging in drunken revelries and gold plated toilets on planes. This isnt hearsay-- I saw some of it.If I get angry enough I might even talk about the reversed slats on the toilet door at one of the residences-but that was hearsay--told to me by a premie at the residence who saw it. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jan 08, 1999 at 00:20:00 (EST)
From: bill Email: None To: chr Subject: I've just been to the archives Message: Please, for the sake of others, tell your story when you are able. Heresay or not. Let Jim sort out the legalities. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jan 08, 1999 at 01:25:13 (EST)
From: barney Email: None To: bill Subject: I've just been to the river Message: I went down to the river and this man offered to take me across in his skiff for free. He told me that all was well on the other side. The real place to be. I took him up on his offer thinking that this might be good for me. Half way across the happy man starts getting very heavy with me. He was demanding this and that. In fact, he demanded everything that I had and everything that I would ever have. And, it occured to me that this ride is not so free after all. In my confused and hopeless state he quickly shackled me with leg irons. This man was not so free, not so happy. And soon I was to be his slave. The thought occured to me to jump into the river and drown myself to get away. It was then that I saw bloated bodies floating in the water. And on the far shore I heard the wailing of his sad people. To be continued... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jan 08, 1999 at 22:24:49 (EST)
From: bill Email: None To: barney Subject: I've just been to the river Message: good one so far as usual barney. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jan 08, 1999 at 01:29:41 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: chr Subject: I've just been to the archives Message: chr, If you want my take on liability exposure on defamation I'd be happy to share it with you. So would Joe, I'm sure. He's not a lawyer but he's been working in the law for years. And KK, too, for that matter. She is a lawyer but just not a regular presence here. (Too bad.) But, you know something? AS has oft been discussed here, especially when were first getting our feet wet speaking frankly, publically and at times visciously about our former MASTER, Maharaji is the last person in the world who could sue anyone for something like that. Of course he would have already if he could. We'd have at least received a couple of 'cease and desist' letters. But he could never in a million years get dragged into such a demanding, public forum. But it gets better. Say you've got some intensely wonderful dirt on someone else up there you'd like to sahre. So long as Maharaji was a witness to the incident, same thing. The person could never sue for fear of dragging the Hamster in AS a witness. Never. Besides, truth is a full defense in matters concerning public figures, i.e. people who've voluntarily thrust themselves into the limelight. Remember 'Who is Guru Maharaj Ji?' Please, share all. It's the one big consoaltion we're likely to get for supporting that illusion all those years. A little fun, a little reality, a little revenge. You know? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jan 08, 1999 at 05:54:27 (EST)
From: chr Email: None To: Jim Subject: I've just been to the archives Message: Jim and Bill,I'm not at all concerned about legalities.M has too much to lose by taking anyone to court-everything would be exposed for the world to see and hear.Its more that I actually want to be fair and just say things that I know for certain i.e. I experienced myself. Ithink I need to put things in context.I don't know how it all works now,but there used to be a kind of inner circle around M--a chosen few who were privy to to everything.The initiators weren't part of this.They saw M generally in artificial,orchestrated master/ devotee situations.There were also a group of wealthy or famous premies whose friendship he cultivated ,but they usually only saw him at his best.There was also the premies like me who were at residences or other situations for various reasons such as security or gardening or maintenance.We werent privy to much at all except every now and then we would see disturbing facets of Ms personality or behaviour.Mr ex or Malibu mole would know more.Anyway sometimes these inner circle peole would talk to us or some security guy would see something outrageous and tell us.In fact M became so disturbed by some of the things that were getting out that he gave direction,in 78 I think,that the people at the residence were not to talk about anything that went on at the residence to anybody.So the toilet slat thing was one of these things told to me by an inner circle premieabout something that happened quite a long time ago.I cant remember whether it was at Malibu or Miami,but at one of them there was a toilet that the 'slaves' used .It had one of those louvre doors with slats in it.M supposedly had the slats turned around so that he and others could look at peole while they were on the toilet.He thought it was a great joke.Weird,huh? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jan 08, 1999 at 22:47:49 (EST)
From: eb Email: None To: chr Subject: I've just been to the mountain Message: chr wrote: there was a toilet that the 'slaves' used. It had one of those louvre doors with slats in it. M supposedly had the slats turned around so that he and others could look at people while they were on the toilet. He thought it was a great joke. Weird,huh? I remember hearing this also, and I think the toilets were in Miami. At the time, I believe I rationalized (and personalized) the incident as demonstrating that M was aware of my every move(ment). eb Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jan 08, 1999 at 23:18:27 (EST)
From: chr Email: None To: eb Subject: I've just been to the mountain Message: Thats a good one.Perhaps we should have a forum for all our rationalisations.I certainly had a few. I think its pretty obvious,even from some of his satsangs,that M had an anal fixation. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jan 09, 1999 at 00:23:31 (EST)
From: larkin Email: larkin@redcrow.demon.co.uk To: loose stools everwhere Subject: very quick hi! & bye! Message: Said Freud one day, feeling inventive - Let's call this one 'anal retentive' It's not seeming nor fit To say 'tight-arsed git' The ladies might find it offensive. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jan 09, 1999 at 10:45:14 (EST)
From: eb Email: None To: larkin and chr Subject: to larkin and chr- LMAO Message: And I agree-chr. I remember feeling very uncomfortable that the humor never got much past the anal stage. I've heard that he got as far as the genital stage (1996 LB) with that crack about sex all nite long. As if. eb Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jan 07, 1999 at 21:04:49 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Are we playing fair, PT? Message: PT, How can you say this to Mike: 'Like so many of the posters here, you don't pay attention and therefore you don't understand and because you don't understand you make the same mistakes over and over again. And then you have to find someone to blame.' in light of the fact that I've corrected you a number of times only to see you ignore my comments? You know, you've been wrong about the law a number of times. And yes, you've made these same mistakes 'over and over'. What's cooking, bubaloo? Also, I want to respond to some other inanity you uttered in a soon-to-disappear thread below. Your point was that this site is just another complainers' site, no big deal, nothing much different than any of the other anti-this or anti-that sites. Ever heard of the logical fallacy of reductio ad absurdum? Classic. Thanks again. By the way, would you care to call me sometime? Or give me your phone number? I'd like to chat with you a bit. What do you say? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jan 07, 1999 at 22:39:55 (EST)
From: Nimrod Email: None To: Pissing thru Subject: &Are you playing fair, PT? Message: To begin with,how about telling us the truth about the numbers for M's cult here in North America. According to his beloved, sponge of a brother Rataji at an info fundraising meeting with premies in Toronto, Oct. 96, of all the people who have received knowledge in North America,since M brought his mission to the west, there were at that time only 8000 whom M and his EV top brass would even consider to be worthy of the designation 'premies'. Of these, there were at that time only 2800 people in all of North America, who were as Rataji put it, actively supporting M's work, and those numbers have been going down since 96, not up. Why don't you and Rataji get on the same page and synchronize the propaganda? Are you willing to tell people the truth, PT that here in North America , There aren't 'tens of thousands of people practicing Knowledge everyday'. In fact PT, isn't it at least alot closer to the truth, to say that in North America right now,in this very beginning of 1999, there are no more than 2-3000 premies 'practicing'k on a daily basis? Those are the numbers for North America,and there going down all the time. We know its hard for you to speak the truth about this and other matters pertaining to M's cult.That's why we're only more than happy to help out. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jan 07, 1999 at 23:14:45 (EST)
From: barney Email: None To: Nimrod Subject: I like PT! Message: I think that we are being too harsh in regards to PT. His posts are often very insightful and vital to the on-going dialogue of the Forum. Keep posting, PT! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jan 08, 1999 at 01:29:59 (EST)
From: Nimrod Email: None To: barney Subject: You like PT! I LUV PT!!...... Message: ...that's why I can't get enough of him!!! And, I would certainly agree with you that his postings here are truly 'insigthful' and even 'vital,' as you say barney. Just so you know, here's what I think my Uncle Abie would have to say about PT ,translated of course from the Yiddish, 'May he continue to grow like a.... Ah nevermind barn, I won't get into it.Because its NOT what my Uncle Abie thinks that's important,it's what I think that counts,and YOU KNOW WHAT I THINK barney,don't you? IF YOU LIKE PT,I LUV PT!(like a PIMPLE ON MY ASS, but that's beside the point, and I would not deny him his right to a 'true and free forum of expression,'for even as we speak, his own Mster has failed to provide this to him. So PT,when you're feeling down and out, and you don't know WHERE to EXPRESS YOUR GRATITUDE, BARNEY WANTS YOU TO KNOW, I WANT YOU TO KNOW COMMON OVER TO OUR PLACE PT!! KEEP ON POSTING MAN! WE LUV YA!!! ps barney;did I do ok here? I mean in terms of being less harsh and severe with the guy?Please let me know.It matters to me. It really does. Thanks man. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jan 08, 1999 at 02:16:42 (EST)
From: barney Email: None To: Nimrod Subject: You like PT! I LUV PT!!...... Message: Well... First, you start off with the rather pornographic I LUV PT which is probably a little more than we wanted to know. After all, we're trying to save the world here through our new found spirituality. Then, I'm rather simple person, but what you said about PT might have been a backhanded compliment. However, I'm not about to debate you on it. You are quite correct that the Forum does allow premies to express their respect, devotion, etc. to Maharaji in, what I would suggest, a more meaningful fasion that the enjoying life website. I mean,that place is like a wax museum. And, finally, one could consider the posts of CD, OP, and RT as a service to Maharaji to help keep us honest. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Jan 11, 1999 at 23:23:24 (EST)
From: Nimrod Email: None To: barney Subject: Shri Barneypal Maharaj Message: First of all,barn, my 'I LUV PT' was NOT pornographic, as you incorrectly observed.To the extent that there was any pornography, it was all in your mind.Well maybe not ALL in your mind ...but PREDOMINANTLY in your mind. But you've blown me away with this one barney.I mean what is this all about anyway? '....we're trying to save the world here with our new found spirituality?' Really?Are we?That is SAVING THE WORLD? Let alone with our NEW FOUND SPIRITUALITY.What is 'our new found spirituality' about anyways? Shri Barneypal, I would really appreciate it , if you could help me out with some answers to these questions. Thanks man.take care. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, Jan 12, 1999 at 02:46:06 (EST)
From: barney Email: None To: Nimrod Subject: Shri Barneypal Says Message: I don't really care what brand of spirtuality we sell as long as we SELL it and, man, it's gonna be expensive and we're all gonna make a lot of money. Now, the major difference between our religion and BM's is that we're gonna be very up-front about the cost and where the money is going. And that will give us moral superiority over him. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, Jan 12, 1999 at 18:26:20 (EST)
From: Nimrod Email: None To: barney Subject: Shri Barneypal Says Message: All RIGHT, SHRI BARNEYPAL!! I'm feeling better already.Thanks! And pranam, man. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jan 08, 1999 at 11:00:56 (EST)
From: Helen Email: None To: Nimrod Subject: Uncle Abie Message: HA HA--very funny post!! Hey, ya think we should set Uncle Abie up with Little Yiddish Grandma? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sun, Jan 10, 1999 at 17:54:20 (EST)
From: Passing thru Email: None To: barney Subject: I like barney! Message: Dear barney, Thankyou. PT Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jan 08, 1999 at 06:25:09 (EST)
From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Nimrod Subject: The bliss of figures Message: Hi Nimrod, I guess you too had fun when M decided (when was that?) to start counting people entering for video projections, and not active premies anymore! I had a hard time to cope with that one, and I guess a lot of premies had and still have! I don't know if the 'old' exes understand what's involved when you have to twist your mind this way! Let's say there is a town with 20 active premies, they have an average of 12 videos shown every month, and an average of 10 premies and asp show up everytime: that has to be counted 10x20=120 persons came to watch videos that month in that community! (Do I make myself clear?) These are the figures given by EV! op and others are you going to confirm this, are you ashamed or something? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sun, Jan 10, 1999 at 18:02:01 (EST)
From: Passing thru Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: The bliss of J-M Message: Dear J-M, I hope you not suggesting that EV is claiming that the figures for video attendances are the same as the number of active premies. Because EV doesn't. The figures for video attendances are simply that, bums on seats. It gives a simple indication of interest and activity in a community whether a few going a lot or a lot going seldom. PT Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jan 08, 1999 at 09:40:33 (EST)
From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Nimrod Subject: Trying to be fair Message: 2-3,000 practising premies in the N Am very likely means another 2-3000 people (most of them showing up from time to time for darshan) who've received k one day and still keeping the BM's picture on their altar. These figures are quite coherent with the 1-2,000 showing up for local programs when the BM shows up in the US. I've attended quite some programs in the US (not after 96) and I've never seen more than that many people attending a program (except for intl events like L Beach). As far as I've noticed, it's the same thing in France: there are about 500 practicing/supporting premies, + another 500 that show up when he comes. When more than 10,000 received k in France since 1972. The tens of thousands figures come EV's special way of counting 'attendees', as I've explained in another post. Anyone to confirm EV's mind-blowing counting system? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jan 08, 1999 at 11:39:51 (EST)
From: x Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: Trying to be fair Message: How typically pathetic that EV tries to bolster its reputation through artificially inlating its attendance records. Didn't someone also explain that the reason they claim such a high number of hits to the enjoyinglife site, is that they count every screen change, so that if you visit their site and look at say 10 screens, you're counted as 10 different people? In my opinion counting the same 10 people going 12 times in a month to a video, as 120 people is a revolting concept that only a truely deceptive person or organization would even consider. What a bunch of egocentric CHEATERS. Is this how things are done now? Will anyone deny this? OP, PT? Is JM right? Shp said to PT, 'When has this ever been about numbers?' I don't know where he's been, but I've always heard a lot about numbers since the cults inception. From the 6 million claimed in Who is Guru Maharaji?, to the inflated accounts of Houston's millenium dissapointment. In fact, now that I think about it, gmj's always talking about numbers, or at least EV is, that's for sure. So in that respect, PT was just doing a good job of parroting Rawats bragging and deceptive style. I personally think that the only numbers Maharaji really cares about are the number of digits in his retirement nest egg. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jan 08, 1999 at 12:45:58 (EST)
From: Sir David Email: None To: x Subject: Trying to be fair Message: Don't forget those people who claim to be multiple personalities. If enough sufferers of this disorder go to events, Elan Vital and Maharaji can multiply the figures by at least five and who's to say they're wrong? What a bore the cult has become. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jan 08, 1999 at 13:49:05 (EST)
From: barney Email: None To: Sir David Subject: numbers - the contributors Message: how about the number of premies who are regular contributors as revealed in those special fund raising meetings. I forgot exactly how many in the U.S. were regulars at the last one I attended about 2 years ago. Anybody know? It was a decent presentation where I believe they broke it down into approximate amounts of donations. I vaguely remember that the total regular contributors was well less than 2000. In fact, it might have been less than 1000. I was suprised that my meager regular contribution of $60 per month placed me in the top 25% or 10% percent. J-M, you are right. The double counting is very deceptive. Creative accounting might be a good term. Another term to use would be Pyramid Scheme. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sun, Jan 10, 1999 at 18:36:43 (EST)
From: Passing thru Email: None To: Sir David Subject: Yes Sir, Sir David Message: Dear Sir David, Since you don't attend video events or practise Knowledge anymore can I presume the boring cult you refer to is this one. The cult of anti. PT Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Jan 11, 1999 at 14:21:21 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: Passing thru Subject: No, no PT Message: PT: Calling this forum a cult does NOT make it so. Why don't you go and READ some independent stuff about cults and what makes a cult. YOU will find that 'free thinking' (keyword: THINKING) is a disqualifying factor when describing a cult. That makes THIS forum a non-cult entity, by definition. BUT, don't take my word for it, go read it for yourself. I won't even tell you where to look, so you can't say that I sent you somewhere specific. BTW, I asked you in another post to tell me what it was that I 'agreed' with VP (with vp's quote and mine). You haven't done this, yet. Please do. If I owe someone an apology, I will be glad to oblige. Unlike what you intimate, I HAVE actually apologized for things said in the past.... YOU, however, have NOT EVER! Get this..... In another set of posts, YOU stated that M & K causing suicides was against ALL COMMON MEDICAL KNOWLEDGE. When I called you on that statement, you simply refused to answer. YOU are the very HEIGHT of intellectual dishonesty, PT. So tell me, what was the quote that I should apologize for and THEN YOU apologize to any doctors on this forum for making that idiotic (and patently false) statement about 'common medical knowledge!' Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Jan 11, 1999 at 23:07:31 (EST)
From: Passing thru Email: None To: Mike Subject: But yes, Mike Message: Dear Mike, I think the post I was refering to was VPs claim that I didn't care how Dave's family felt which you supported. When, as VP later apologised for, my comment was I didn't care what they said. Common medical knowledge says that if a hundred people are exposed to a flu virus and only one person is infected then that person was predisposed by some previous condition to be vulnerable. PT Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sun, Jan 10, 1999 at 18:33:53 (EST)
From: Passing thru Email: None To: x Subject: Keep spreading the gnus x. Message: Dear x, This thread is a gold mine of 'cult' thinking. Like any anti cult, you have no regard for the truth. Good old Nimrood tells a lie, that I said there were 'tens of thousands of people practising Knowledge every day IN THE USA'. I did not. And then others join in saying PT's a liar, when it is Nimrod who is the liar. Then J-M claims that EV considers the numbers of attendances at video events to be the number of active premies. They do not, he is a liar. And then you weigh in with your bit. Dear Observers, the reason Knowledge is so great is that it is beyond words and numbers. It is an experience that you have within yourself.It is yours and yours alone. Tens of thousands of people have it and love it. J-M, Nimrod,x etc do not practice Knowledge anymore so it has disappeared from their lives, and now they are left arguing about numbers and lying about me. PT Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sun, Jan 10, 1999 at 18:18:03 (EST)
From: Passing thru Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: Caught you J-M Message: Dear J-M, In your post 'the bliss' I gave you the benfit of the doubt. But now you have been caught in the same lie as Nimrod. 'Tens of thousands of people practising Knowledge everyday' isn't 'EVs special way of counting' as you claim, it is true beyond doubt. For the satellite event that took place on Sunday morning in California and at other times around the world the attendance figure was more than 70,000. And that doesn't include those people in Asia who didn't get up at 1,2 or 3 in the morning to watch it, or India at 10 or 11 at night or the thousands of other premies who didn't go for one reason or another. The fact is Maharaji has given Knowledge to hundreds of thousands of people, he gives it free of charge to any one that shows a sincere interest. That many don't practise it everyday or even at all is to be expected because whilst knowledge is simple, its not always easy. It requires commitment and self discipline. But for those that have it, it is a great joy as the Enjoying Life with Knowledge site demonstrates. Just because you don't practise anymore doesn't mean Knowledge has gone away. Its just that you have gone away from it. PT Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Jan 11, 1999 at 05:23:30 (EST)
From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Passing thru Subject: PT's ignorance! Message: Hey PT! There are 2 possibilities: - whether you are not a part of EV's organization (or you're involved in some parts where you don't have access to this information), and you're just saying things you believe to be true, because you've heard them from other premies, or because you can't believe such things (like EV's way of counting 'people'), and you're sincerely trying to defend M and the group you're a part of, which is perfectly understandable. And I find this pathetic. - or you know all this (what is you position in EV - what 'service' do you usually do, beside watching videos and 'practicing'), like many premies do, and you can't face their reality, which I perfectly understand, and you're ashamed to publicly admit them. I've been in this situation too my friend, and I understand you 100%! But nobody believes you, even the premies who are lurking here! When have you been in India for the last time? Did you ever participate in local and intl events in west? Did you do 'service' on those occasions? What service? I did, for more than 24 years, and I actively helped in many of those events' preparation, and in various fields, and I've been a member of EV's board. As I've always been a curious person, and I knew that EV's and M's official figures have always been more or less BS (because of 'stupid premies'), I did my best to count myself and gather figures from other sources. Luckyly I've been involved enough in EV to be able to access to most of the figures, nationaly and interationaly. I've been involved many time in registration, and setting up, where I needed to know these real figures. When I was not, it was quite easy to count the seats in events (# seats/row, # of rows, etc), and you usually have enough time for this as you have to be there quite a long time in advance! I also had friends involved enough to know those exact figures most of the time. In fact we needed them to prepare for the next events, and my requests were always legitimate. So I got all the figures I needed. How many people registered, how many came, how many needed headsets, how much we've sold in the sales, etc. What are YOUR credentials? Like in India: M NEVER had even 100,000 premies at the same time attending a program in the Delhi ashram! I would say the maximum was about 60,000 Indian premies and aspirants (usually 10-15,000) + 2,000 westerners. When he had 2 programs, one after the other, to allow more people to come, and less on the land at the same time, he had about 30,000 for each one of them! Talk about hundreds of 1000s! Where are they? Maybe he had that many attendees in the 70s with those big satsangs in the center of Delhi. Most of these people were very likely curious persons, as the satsang was held in very popular and crowded areas, and most of Indians enjoy gurus' darshans. Now he recently had some programs in other places in India, Bihar, Ahmedabad, etc: guess how many premies showed up there: 1-2,000 for each program! That's why I say he has even less than 100,000 practicing premies in India, and most of these premies are shared with other gurus. The radhasoami gurus really have millions of followers. Same 'knowledge'. These are facts and real figures. If you have some, please give them: how many people came, where and when. How many people are on EV's mailing lists, etc. These are the figures in the real world! Not how many people entered to watch a video anywhere and everywhere! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Jan 11, 1999 at 16:34:18 (EST)
From: op Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: attendance in India Message: Just for your information: - the satsang field in Delhi has been re-vamped, and at Baisakhi in April 98 there were 85,000 on the last night. (Sorry, I don't have the figures for November.) - the Knowledge tent has also been altered, so that 4,600 people are able to receive Knowledge at the same time (there were two Knowledge Sessions there in November totalling nearly 9,000 people). In Kathmandu, the attendance for all three days in November was over 16,000. Of course, these were virtually all the same people, as it was the same event. In April 96, M held two two-day events in Delhi, with 30,000 people each. These were two different sets of people - total, approximately 60,000. Unless you think that for the sake of the Westerners and PR, he had all 30,000 Indians from the first event get on busses, drive around Delhi for a while, and then come back for the second two-day event :) As for the satellite event, read the reports from the various places that participated. Time for the event was anywhere from 8AM in LA to 2AM in Brisbane. All venues received it live. At Long Beach 97, there were indeed approximately 9,000 people attending. There was possibility of an overflow room, but the seating was adjusted and they were able to fit everyone in. Long Beach 98 was not cancelled because of poor attendance or lack of funds. It never was. As early as May, the decision had been made not to hold an international event in December. This isn't meant to be an in-your-face you-got-it-wrong post. Just to clarify things. I know you've worked in seating, etc., so you know the data for events that you did attend. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, Jan 12, 1999 at 04:30:29 (EST)
From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: op Subject: op please answer! Message: Why didn't you confirm (or deny) M's and EV's special way of counting people entering to watch videos for statistics? Thank you for those other figures! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, Jan 12, 1999 at 06:21:34 (EST)
From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: op Subject: The day we'll believe you Message: Is the day when you'll say how many people watched the satellite live broadcast in France how many in Italy how many in UK how many in Delhi how many in Kanpur how many in Calcutta etc etc Otherwise, given the fact that we know HOW EV usually makes statistics, and it's records in that field, there are very few people (including premies, I tell you most of them laugh about these figures) to believe these statistics. I even wonder how much m himself believes in them. Do you recall the jokes he used to make about it in India? How mahatamas who didn't even know how to count were telling him that 100s of 1000s attended the festivals when they were only 10s of 1000s? Premies (and me) have heard him say this! My opinion, unless you give those details, are that the attendance was half of these figures at best. Very likely 1/3 in most places. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Jan 11, 1999 at 23:12:01 (EST)
From: Passing thru Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: Ignorance of what J-M. Message: Dear J-M, What I said still stands. Maharaji has given Knowledge to hundreds of thousands of people. And tens of thousands practise it every day. Do you dispute this? PT Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, Jan 12, 1999 at 01:32:49 (EST)
From: bill Email: None To: Passing thru Subject: true facts Message: 600,423 people look at the back of thier eyelids every day for 15 minutes. half that number stick it out for the 15 minutes that are supposed to be dedicated to putting your tongue back. 55 to 60 experience the infinite state of almost oneness. only prem rawat is at the oneness stage. (master's perogative) roughly half a million see the light of mind that prem rawat said was there. about 600,000 are up against a 100 foot thick steel wall and they havent even scratched the surface yet. pt, dont argue, that is a qoute of rawat himself. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, Jan 12, 1999 at 19:43:59 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: Passing thru Subject: Bullshit Statement Message: And tens of thousands practise it every day. How the hell do you know how many people actually 'practice' every day? Who told you this? Did you do a survey? What a bullshit statement. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sun, Jan 10, 1999 at 17:52:15 (EST)
From: Passing thru Email: None To: Nimrod Subject: There is life beyond Nimrod? Message: Dear Nimrod, Thankyou for your post. It is a perfect example of how this site works. . To suit your own purposes you have completely misrepresented what I wrote. And then you have called me a liar for saying something that YOU made up. I did not say there were 'tens of thousands of people practising Knowledge IN THE USA every day'. I said there are 'tens of thousands of people practising Knowledge every day'. Do you have the integrity of VP, who stands out on this site by being able to admit he made a mistake? I will look out for it. And for all the other observers, please realise, that it is this lack of accuracy and the accepting and spreading of bullshit that has caused most of the problems many of the ex premies complain of. PT Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Jan 11, 1999 at 06:51:44 (EST)
From: Nimrod Email: None To: Passing thru Subject: there's life beyond M Message: ....if you can just manage to survive your own colossal moronity and your own seemingly infinite assholedom.Can you do it PT? I know barney's rooting for you. PT, I wonder why I'm even bothering.Can't look into your eyes, but I can look into your posts, and each time I do, I see the same thing ....MAN,ARE YOU EVER AN ASSHOLE!!! A word about numbers PT. You play fast and loose with them in your sleezy attempts to portray M and his cult as 'happening,' when in fact M and his cult seem to be going down faster than beer at a frat party....CORRECTION... beer at a frat party will ALWAYS go down better than you f**kbrains, but...you're STILL going down.Sorry to break the news to you bubba, but that's just the way it seems to be evolving. PT,its not fair that you make statements that are so vague,they become meaningless,but then again you ARE one of M's prems,so I'm really not surprised.When you tell people here that there are ' tens of thousands of people who have received Knowledge, or 'tens of thousands who practice Knowledge every day',why don't YOU have the integrity to ALSO tell us WHERE. WHERE are these tens of thousands? In North America, In Europe? Do you mean GLOBALLY? THE MOON? My focusing the conversation on some very SPECIFIC numbers pertaining to North America was my effort to correct any misguided understanding resulting from your irresponsible throwing around of numbers, that these 'tens of thousands' may be the numbers HERE for North America.They quite obviously are not.I'm confident that Jean Michel and x understood this, and they know that they haven't been caught in any lies, as you so moronically suggest. Now what these numbers actually are,I shared with you on the basis of the information provided by M's own bro, his own very special SPONGE-AJI RAJAJI at an 'info and inspiration' meeting with Toronto premies in OCT, 96. I was there.I'll repeat: >In North America;8000 people with knowledge, people considered by M to be 'premies', but most of them are considered to be out of the 'active premie' category, which according to Rajaji, consisted of only 2800 premies. And that PT is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. PT,(and please don't tell barney I said this)I don't like you.But please keep posting, for each one of your posts is such a brilliant testimonial of the slippery, slime infested, fuckbrain mentality of Maharaji and his cult.We can't thank you enough for the insight PT!! By the way,my Uncle Abie wants to know; are you sure that PT doesn't stand for PREMIE TUCHUS? Good night, sweet prince. JSCA Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Jan 11, 1999 at 23:21:01 (EST)
From: Passing thru Email: None To: Nimrod Subject: Don't blame me Nimrod.. Message: Dear Nimrod, I think we can assume that when I say that 'tens of thousands of people practise knowledge every day', I mean 'tens of thousands of people practise knowledge every day'. Your asumption that I meant 'IN THE USA' is not indicated in anyway. You assumed it and you were wrong. But you cannot admit it. PT Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, Jan 12, 1999 at 00:05:54 (EST)
From: Nimrod Email: None To: Passing thru Subject: no blame,no shame Message: PT, when you say that there are 'tens of thousands of people who practice Knowledge', why don't you also have the COURAGE and INTEGRITY to make your statement MEANINGFUL, by telling us WHERE these 'tens of thousands' actually are.Again I ask, you gutless little creep, WHERE?!In America, North America, Europe , the world,the MOON? Be specific, and answer. I did NOT ASSUME anything in your case, PT, for you my friend are truly beyond any kind of rational assumptions. I simply attemted to focus the conversation on Rajaji's numbers for NORTH AMERICA, to get you to be more specific on the numbers,so that your statement of 'tens of thousands' can have some meaning to it,instead of it being as it is now, a bunch of gibberish. BUT, you refuse to be specific, you refuse to even acknowledge what the numbers are as per Rajaji's account, you refuse to say ANYTHING thats meaningful on the subject of the NUMBERS. I'm telling you PT, you're about as useful as tits on a bull. But keep posting.At least untill M's Malibu Boys come to take you away in your straight jacket. Have a good one PT Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, Jan 12, 1999 at 19:56:48 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: Passing thru Subject: How the Hell Do you know this? Message: I think we can assume that when I say that 'tens of thousands of people practise knowledge every day', I mean 'tens of thousands of people practise knowledge every day'. I repeat my question. On what do you base this statement? How do you know this and what evidence do you have? Did you just make it up? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sun, Jan 10, 1999 at 17:30:23 (EST)
From: Passing thru Email: None To: Jim Subject: Are we fair, Jim? Message: Dear Jim, VP made a mistake and Mike blindly followed. VP had the integrity to check my rebuttal and find out that he was wrong and graciously admitted it. Mike has not. The problem with 'anti groups' is that the only requirement is a negative viewpoint. Truth and accuracy come a long way last. So that any negative comment is applauded and accepted without question. Just as Mike took VP's erroneous comment on face value and repeated it, so all sorts of other lies are repeated and accepted. If I hadn't seen VP's post and corrected it, a very unpleasant and unwarranted character assasination would have been set for all eternity. And any lazy browser who saw VPs and Mike's post, and presumably the ones that would follow, would have been completely deceived. Every one who visits this site would benefit from balanced and factual reporting but that, by the nature of this site, is impossible. So every now and again I pop in to see what's happening and within days I find some very dubious argument being passed off as fact. As for not answering all posts directed to me, I have a limited amount of time to post here and once I have made my position known I am happy to leave that thread. After all I am not trying to convince people, like Mike, who clearly don't accept my argument, I am more interested in people, like VP, who are prepared to accept the truth when they hear it. PT Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sun, Jan 10, 1999 at 20:55:57 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Passing thru Subject: Are we fair, Jim? Message: PT, We're not trying to make a mountain out of a little hamster hill, are we perhaps? God you're funny! So you find a little error in someone's calculation and you scream up and down 'See! I told you these ex's were a cult!' That's sublimely ridiculous, PT. But what's with you anyway? As several have mentioned, you've been called on many, many errors and you've yet to admit a single one. I myself have challenged you on a number of points but you've just ignored me every time. So what do you think you're doing, complaining that others don't answer you properly? Besides all the factual things I've challenged you on I've also asked you about letting your 21 year-old son read these threads. I'm serious about that. I maintain that your son would be disgusted and deeply ashamed to see his father behave like this. When even the other premies here want to have nothing to do with you there must be a reason. I think your son would be able to share that with you. So what do you say, PT? Do you or don't you have the courage to show your handiwork to your kid? Yes or no? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sun, Jan 10, 1999 at 21:59:08 (EST)
From: x Email: None To: Jim Subject: Are we a bongo, PT? Message: Hey PT, you aren't by chance the bongo who yelled out, 'Dance Maharaji!!! ', when his microphone 'malfunctioned' in Pasadena, are you? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Jan 11, 1999 at 23:33:11 (EST)
From: Passing thru Email: None To: x Subject: Pasadena, me, no x Message: Dear x No that wasn't me. PT Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Jan 11, 1999 at 23:31:02 (EST)
From: Passing thru Email: None To: Jim Subject: Fair's fair, Jim? Message: Dear Jim, Your aasumptions about my relationship with my son are on a par with many of your other assumptions. That is, they are invariably negative, have no basis in fact and are completely irrelevant. I would never attack your relationship with your family for the following reasons, 1) I have never met you 2) I have never met them 3) I have never observed any communication between you and them. 4) It is beside the point for the purposes of our discussion. 5) If I did feel your relationship with your family was 'off' I would not, as a stranger, offer an opinion unless asked. But then again I'm talking about logic, knowledge and manners. PT Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, Jan 12, 1999 at 00:04:11 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Passing thru Subject: Fair's fair, Jim? Message: Dear Jim, Your aasumptions about my relationship with my son are on a par with many of your other assumptions. That is, they are invariably negative, have no basis in fact and are completely irrelevant. I would never attack your relationship with your family for the following reasons, 1) I have never met you 2) I have never met them 3) I have never observed any communication between you and them. 4) It is beside the point for the purposes of our discussion. 5) If I did feel your relationship with your family was 'off' I would not, as a stranger, offer an opinion unless asked. But then again I'm talking about logic, knowledge and manners. PT PT, I'm afraid that once again you miss the point. You know, quite frankly, I'm a little embarrassed that I gave you as much credit as I did for being thoughtful. To be honest, there's something about your writing style that, at first blush, suggests an operating mind. However, again and again and yet again, your thinking falls short. Okay, here we go. Yes, of COURSE, my pitch about your son is based on certain assumptions. There's nothing negative about them, though. My assumptions, if you want to spell them out, are that your son's a fairly honest, intelligent fellow unafraid to look at his father's behaviour here and comment accordingly. I'm not 'attacking' your relationship, I'm 'attacking' you. And I'm invoking the conscience of your own flesh and blood seeing that yours is so suppressed and fucked up by your involvement with Maharaji. See? I'm not saying your relationship with your son is 'off' or anything of the sort. In fact, I hope the opposite is true. I know this is pretty hypothetical and all but I think I can put myself in your shoes. Say some premie (maybe you!) thought I was behaving despicably here. Say they challenged me to allow my kid to read the posts they think offend and comment accordingly. What would I think? What would I say? Well, first of all, I don't have kids. Maharaji took them. (Just kidding!). But my girlfriend has two kids, a boy and a girl, around your son's age, and I show them this stuff all the time. I AM proud of what I say here. I mean obviously. Using my real name is just one indication of that, quite honestly. But let's say I'd never shown this to Cam or Becky before. Now some premie, say you, challenge me to do that. How would I feel? I think I'd see the point. I certainly wouldn't carp about your 'negativity' (which is a meaningless word nine times out of ten, this being one of them). We know we disagree with each other, so what's the point of saying THAT? Well I wouldn't. It'd just be a waste of time and pointless. No, I think I'd recognize that you were just trying to plaster my ass against the standards of decency and reasonableness you ASSUMED my kid lived by. If I was thinking properly, I'd interpret that assumption as nothing but a compliment to my son. And, of course, a challenge to me. Remember, PT, I'm not asking you to show your psots here to some other cult member. What'd be the point of that? Or even your wife, for that matter. No, I figure if you're going to get any truth in your household the safest bet is that it'll come out of the mouths of babes. Can't you see what I'm saying? Face it, PT, you're fucked up. You can't think straight. You're an amazing hypocrite -- I loved your comment that you don't necessarily respond to posts when you think you've made your point and realize it's time to leave the thread behind, yet you jump up and down when someone doesn't reply to one of your ridiculous points. You're outrageously naive about the world in so many respects. Why have you never once acknowledge your errors about some of the legal points you tried to make and which I corrected for you? Are you afraid of a bill? PT, relax, op's covering this one for you. Ask me anything. Now, back to what we're talking about. Right now you're an anonymous nothing. There are no ramifications in your life outside this page for anything you say. You can be as unreasonable as you like. Who can stop you? I've proposed a challenge that, if you think about it, is decidedly in your favour. After all, one would assume that your son would naturally be protective of you. In the ideal world, he wouldn't be the prosecution's pick for a judge if you were being accused of something. Yet I'm willing to take a chance on his ASSUMED integrity. He should be FLATTERED. Can't you see THAT? What do you say? Bring your son here and let me simply point out a few of the threads you've been active in. All I'd ask him would be: 1) Do you think your father's fair here? If so, please explain. If not, likewise. That's it. Now, tell me again how this is an attack on your family. If not, let's get on with it. Hm? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Jan 11, 1999 at 11:50:17 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: Passing thru Subject: Are we fair, PT? Message: PT: To what 'comment' are you referring? Mybe I'm blind, but I don't know what the heck you are talking about! Please respond with the quote! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jan 07, 1999 at 19:50:13 (EST)
From: selene Email: None To: VP Subject: I am jealous Message: You have been deemed by those most worthy of being all right and me, I am lost to wander til I stop blaming a gooroo I can barely recollect thank the universe, the goddess, the season the smog whatever!!!!!!!!!!! I am jealous and mad at you. (you know I am kidding right) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jan 07, 1999 at 20:41:59 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: selene Subject: It's worse than that, Selene Message: Hate to tell you this in your hour of darkness but you mean 'envious'. Oh well, the truth's a bitter pill sometimes. Sorry. :) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jan 07, 1999 at 23:08:33 (EST)
From: eb Email: None To: selene Subject: Dear Selene, Message: I'm not very good at confrontation, so I can't cuss out PT. I guess I need lessons from Rick. More to the point, I want you to know how much I admire you for dealing with some major shit in your life (hell, M's been the least of your challenges in comparison, IMO). I give you credit for being able to survive in situations where others have given up. Most of all, you're willing to be honest in looking at yourself and you're making appropriate changes. Selene, I wish you could see you through my eyes. You are so beautiful, intelligent, caring, and funny. And you've added so much depth to my life. I feel like I've found a true sister in you. Oops, I didn't mean to bring up the 's' word. Well, anyway, I hope you know how much you're loved. eb Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jan 07, 1999 at 23:23:10 (EST)
From: Rick Email: None To: eb Subject: Dear Selene, Message: Cussing out a slug like PT would just be a waste of time. Rick Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jan 08, 1999 at 06:01:36 (EST)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Rick Subject: Dear Selene, Message: Dear Rick, So there will be new students in my class, eh? Or maybe I will be in a more advanced class. He's a great teacher ladies! Love, Robyn $*%)@*^_ SEE! :) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jan 08, 1999 at 20:19:58 (EST)
From: Selene Email: None To: eb Subject: Dear Selene, Message: What wonderful, kind words. God I wish I had half that much love inside me eb. You are truly amazing. I know you too have been through it and back again. Yet you have managed to keep much more kindness than I. Or at least you are better at showing it. Thanks so much. To you Saul, shp, VP, Rick Jim everyone who supported me last night. I really don't enjoy losing it like that but such is life. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jan 08, 1999 at 11:07:21 (EST)
From: Selene Email: None To: all Subject: I am envious Message: Thank you. all of you really. I was so embarrassed to lose it but it seems I picked on the right, er human? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jan 08, 1999 at 14:10:28 (EST)
From: VP Email: None To: selene Subject: that damn green monster Message: I'm with Rick. Fuck PT. See my post to him below. Who cares what other people think about you or me? (Unless it's eb, of course:) Maharaji was in my head for a long time and I lost a friend to his cult, so no one has it easy. You are a better writer AND I'll bet your stomach is flatter than mine, for starters... love to you <3 Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jan 08, 1999 at 20:43:07 (EST)
From: Selene Email: None To: VP Subject: that damn green monster Message: was flatter VP. I gained 6 pounds between T day, the wedding, and xmas. oh well. I am getting tired of caring about it actually. My husband loves me. Of course he loved me when I was 45 pounds overweight too. hmm, mayb eI had better keep caring about it after all. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jan 07, 1999 at 19:22:07 (EST)
From: barney Email: None To: Everyone Subject: connection is way slow! Message: Is it just me or is there something wrong connecting to www.ex-premie.org? At home it was slow and same with at work where we've got T-3s or something super-duper fast. Brian, can you check into this? My paranoia is telling me that the Gurooo is having his people flood the ex-premie site ala a Love Bomb to make life miserable for us. Or else the ex-premie provider has added a porno site to the server and they are more popular than we'll ever be. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jan 07, 1999 at 19:34:40 (EST)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: barney Subject: To funny! :) (nt) Message: faekfj;' Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jan 07, 1999 at 20:52:42 (EST)
From: barney Email: None To: barney Subject: back up to speed now Message: the bottleneck seems to have disappeared is the impeachment being carried live on the Internet? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jan 08, 1999 at 06:05:56 (EST)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: barney Subject: back up to speed now Message: Dear Barney, Probably is, the impeachment thing! Sick. I've had the problem, for the last few days in another email acccount I have that some mail was taking more than 8 hours to be delivered into the account. I see it as a sign of the collapse of society! Just kidding. My new age friend said she heard an astologer say that Clinton will resign in August. Maybe someone will remember that here when the time comes. Love, Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jan 07, 1999 at 18:46:14 (EST)
From: Anne Email: None To: syd Subject: just a man with a good gig Message: 'having received a knowledge review session from gm himself had cured me of my illusion of him being anything more that a man with a good gig' I believe this happened because I had already removed myself from any activites related to k or gm for some time. I was at a premie friends house when her husband called from Orlando to tell her how much he was enjoying his time there and that gm had decided to add on one more review session. She had attended a previous one some where in New York state, weeks earlier, and after this call urged me to attend. I called up another non-practicing premie, Zillah in St. Catherines and we decided it would make for a nice trip for us to take together. I had alot of fun. Nice posh golf club to stay at, good restaurant, friendly people. Yet the k review did nothing for me. I kept waiting for something more to happen. I did peek to see what m was doing durning tec #?, and he was gone. That gave me something to think about. m walked right down my aisle and still, nothing. Zillah, who was a known fainter everytime she received darshan, was also able to remain conscious. It was great fun for a weekend although traveling to Florida in August proved that at that time I could still be a little 'out of my mind'. My life was settled, I was reasonably secure both emotionally and financially, I had been out of the 'group loop' for too long for the experience of being close to gm to be anything more than entertainment. After exposure to what people who stayed in the loop have been going though on this site I wish I had recognized the real damage that he was doing at the time. My 'friends' seemed to need it though and part of me wished back then that it would have still worked for me but it didn't. Now I have to deal with the fallout, of what I believed to be a non issue just a few months ago. I hope I answered your question of my statement. Thanks for all the kind words from everyone for my journeys entry. 'May you discover yourself to be a greater person by far than you ever dreamed yourself to be.' Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jan 07, 1999 at 23:03:02 (EST)
From: peter Email: None To: Anne Subject: do you know Gail? Message: You apparently both knew Zillah. Gail just posted about her today too (bottom of I Went to the Archives thread). Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jan 08, 1999 at 10:30:39 (EST)
From: Anne Email: None To: peter Subject: do you know Gail? Message: Hi Peter, Yes I have known Gail since she lived at the side apartment of 90 Albert and I lived in the back apartment. Zillah and I were friends from school and when I returned from down East I told her all about gm and k. She jumped on the bandwagon. Before she died, I believe, she had also given up her belief in gm and k. Although we remained friends and visited with each other often we never did discuss gm. It was no longer an interest or concern in our lives after our shared trip to the k review with gm. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jan 08, 1999 at 19:49:38 (EST)
From: syd Email: syd@gold.ac.uk To: Anne Subject: just a man with a good gig Message: Anne, Thanks for the story. Strange sometimes how the end of something important can be such a quiet experience, just drifting away. Almost an anti-climax. Syd Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sun, Jan 10, 1999 at 22:30:46 (EST)
From: Gail Email: None To: Peter Subject: Hey Peter Message: Are you the Peter who made me take my cat back in the good old 90 Albert Street days--the head honcho Peter amongst other things? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, Jan 12, 1999 at 11:24:51 (EST)
From: Katie Email: None To: Gail Subject: Hey Peter Message: Hi Gail - this Peter is my husband. (BTW, I got your package - thanks!) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jan 07, 1999 at 10:27:02 (EST)
From: VP Email: None To: Passin' Thru Subject: I was wrong, PT Message: Passin' Thru, I can't find the post now, so I'm putting it here for you to see. I went back into the archives and you did indeed say,'I don't care whan Norman's family says' which is different than not caring about how their family feels. I misread what you said. Sorry for coming down so hard on you for nothing. VP Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jan 07, 1999 at 11:17:09 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: VP Subject: I was wrong, PT Message: Veep, I think it's wrong to talk with PT as if he's sincere. He's already admitted that he's just having fun here and doesn't mean what he says. He's just having fun being an asshole for God. You know, last night I got angry with op. Yesterday I got angry with shp. These people, for all their cult programming, are actually expecting to be taken seriously. Even CD expects that. But PT doesn't! He's candidly let the cat out of the bag. He thinks it's fun to just play around a bit and this is where he's chosen to do it. I think the best way to deal with him is to simply 'enjoy' the show never forgetting that he doesn't mean a word of what he says. Is he an asshole for playing this game? Sure. But he only hurts m in the process. All power to him, I say. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jan 07, 1999 at 12:19:06 (EST)
From: Jerry Email: None To: Jim Subject: I disagree Message: Jim, I think you give PT too much credit for being clever. Everybody likes to pull other people's legs now and again, but suicide is a serious matter, nothing to joke about. I think PT is genuinely trying to counter exes claims that Maharaji is responsible for premies taking their lives. I also believe he genuinely wants to thwart any attempts by exes to free premies (including himself) from their cult programming, the same as CD and OP want to. Shp, I believe, is genuinely questioning Maharaji's credibility. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jan 07, 1999 at 13:05:28 (EST)
From: x Email: None To: Jerry Subject: I disagree Message: PT is totally serious, his claim to just be 'having some fun' here is BS, to cover his ass, because he's afraid to stand by what he says 100%. As an example of a typical premie he leaves a lot to be desired, not exactly a good advertisement for joining the stupid cult he heralds. I think maybe why shp is actually semi-open to listening to reality is because he actually still has a concience left, and can feel a little empathy for people who got screwewd over through bm's greed. Blaming all the problems, contradictions and inconsistencies in bm's cult on 'idiotic' premies is immature and irrational,PT. Isn't the shepherd responsible for his flock? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jan 07, 1999 at 13:42:42 (EST)
From: Selene Email: None To: x Subject: I disagree Message: All I know is I am not strong enough to deal with any of them. Every time I try to, I end up either being too rude, or feeling that I was. And they are more than happy to oblige me that feeling. Maybe some day I will be stronger. I am glad some of you are. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jan 07, 1999 at 15:37:22 (EST)
From: shp Email: None To: Selene Subject: i don't bite Message: selene, hi. i've been catching up on some reading. yesterday evening i drove to kennedy airport on long island/nyc/usa to pick up my next door neighbor who was flying back from copenhagen. it really drains me to drive anywhere near the city. everybody goes too fast and there are too many people per square inch. stressarama. i better get to the point of my post to you before my conversational style angers any bystanders who think i am just blowing smoke. so the reason i am writing to you is that i would like it if you felt comfortable posting to me if you feel it to do so without being apprehensive of my response or how you are perceived. if you aren't being (c)rude, i won't think you are. i am pretty good at reading between the lines, catching things like truth, sarcasm, humor, cynicsim, and yes, even rapport...and most of the time i can differentiate between those kinds of feelings and malice. i like open space, no walls or barriers, no us-them. it is more conducive to higher energy communication and the transmission of accurate information. so please, selene, go for it! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jan 07, 1999 at 16:02:31 (EST)
From: Selene Email: None To: shp Subject: i don't bite unless I have to Message: Thank you shp, for trying to keep the lines of communication open. Usually I agree and try also. this is not a Normal situation however. I have been very abused by premies and I am reactive, defensive, and angry. I also had some heavy family stuff happen very recently so I am not 'nice' As I said, maybe someday. I do appreciate your post. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jan 07, 1999 at 16:17:50 (EST)
From: shp Email: None To: Selene Subject: a friend in need Message: is a friend indeed feel free to say what you have to say to me anytime that will work out the kinks i'll put a first aid kit next to my 'puter if i get clawed you said: I have been very abused by premies and I am reactive, defensive, and angry. >i am not 'premies'. i am shp, one person, who never abused you and never will. your reactiveness, defensiveness and anger are understandable. I also had some heavy family stuff happen very recently so I am not 'nice' >i hope your family stuff mellows out long term soon. as as for your not being 'nice', you can't fool me. you just had some bad scenes. this too shall pass. hope Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jan 07, 1999 at 19:03:20 (EST)
From: Passing thru Email: None To: Selene Subject: I agree with Selene Message: Dear Selene, Maybe someday you will be strong enough to admit that, like the rest of us, you have your failings. And stop blaming M & K for the decisions you, and only, make. PT Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jan 07, 1999 at 19:37:33 (EST)
From: Selene Email: None To: Passing thru Subject: I agree with Selene Message: Fuck you you stupid asshole. As IF I haven't been doing self work. what a cheap shot Now we all know what a jerk you are and thanks again for confirming my vow i aint talkin to you screw you guys, I'm goin home Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jan 07, 1999 at 21:29:22 (EST)
From: barney Email: None To: Selene Subject: that was STRONG! Message: Way to go, Selene! Quite effective, quite to the point. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jan 08, 1999 at 22:31:08 (EST)
From: Selene Email: None To: barney Subject: that was STRONG! Message: I have my moments. You are the best by the way. I love your posts. Can't help thinking of this cuddling purple guy though. Uh did I really just say that? this is what happens when I quit drinking. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jan 08, 1999 at 17:53:29 (EST)
From: Saul Email: None To: Selene Subject: I agree with Selene Message: Hi Selene. I hope that things are well with your family. Also, PT is not worth another moment of your time. Saul Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jan 08, 1999 at 22:36:46 (EST)
From: eb Email: None To: Selene Subject: Selene, I agree with Saul (NT) Message: NT Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jan 07, 1999 at 22:00:37 (EST)
From: shp Email: None To: Passing thru Subject: pt, remember... Message: hey pt, it was bound to happen and now it has. you have pissed ME off. you are like the person who tells somebody who has a flat (or who YOU THINK has a flat from YOUR PERSPECTIVE) and proceeds to TELL them THEY HAVE A FLAT! first of all, you don't know for sure if they do or don't and if you don't have a patch kit then KEEP PASSING THRU or keep your heart open or if you don't have anything decent to say be quiet and LISTEN. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jan 08, 1999 at 10:23:37 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: shp Subject: shp, remember... Message: shp: You will probably note that while 'we' provide answers to pt when asked questions, pt NEVER provides answers when asked a question (see my posts in the threads below). Actually, this is quite typical of PT, OP and CD. PT, however, is THE MOST HEARTLESS and DISGUSTING M-apologist that I've had the misfortune to 'experience.' Due to pt's lack of humanity, I think I'll refer to our visitor as 'IT' instead of a real personal pronoun. Personal pronouns are reserved for 'persons,' in my book.... he he he Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jan 08, 1999 at 14:00:43 (EST)
From: VP Email: None To: Passing thru Subject: Passin' the buck Message: PT, I know Selene. She is a real person who happens to know A LOT about herself-faults and all. She blames Maharaji for just what he IS responsible for. She assigns blame where it is due. She knows her part in things. You don't know anything about her, yet you make a statement like that? Jim is right, there is no talking to you. Why kick someone when they are down. Are you a sadist? Is this your idea of fun? I may have accused you of saying something you didn't, but I was right-on in my opinion of you. You are MEAN AS HELL. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jan 07, 1999 at 13:51:29 (EST)
From: John Email: None To: x Subject: I disagree Message: I don't think the ex Guru Maharaj Ji had a clue as to what he was really getting into when he took over his father's business. He just went with the flow and before he knew it, he had thousands of devotees worshipping him. All he learned from his Dad was to beat up the mahatmas, give satsang, demand the richest and the best of all worldly possessions from the devotees so they could do service to him, and then walk around and pretend to be God. That's all he knows how to do. Premies having a hard time? Hell, that's easy - just tell them they are not dedicating enough, or they are listening to their minds. The message has not changed, any and all trouble is attributed to turning one's attention away from HIM and putting it on the source of all trouble, the MIND. I bet even now he never addresses real life concerns. I know the 9 years I followed him, he never addressed sex, or choosing careers, or mental health, much less premies being driven to suicide. So PT has learned well from his Master. His Master does not give a shit about anyone except his own precious connection to HIS guru, and that's PT's view also. PT parrots his Master's view on premies' troubles. They were in their mind. It was their fault. There is no possibility that the guy who was presenting himself as the spiritual savior of mankind would actually be expected to address someone's real life difficulties. Nooooo way! Troubles? Sorry! YOUR fault. - escaped in '82 and never regretted it. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jan 07, 1999 at 19:15:44 (EST)
From: Passing thru Email: None To: John Subject: I disagree with John Message: Dear John, Maharaji isn't a career's advisor, a sex therapist or a doctor, no wonder you were disappointed. You obviously wanted someone to do your thinking for you. M does one thing and one thing only. He tells us that there is something wonderful happening inside all of us and offers the techniques of Knowledge to experience it. After that its all up to you. You choose your career, you sort out you sex and you take care of your mental health. But it is refreshing to have someone on this site say that they want less freedom of choice. PT Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jan 07, 1999 at 21:54:04 (EST)
From: barney Email: None To: Passing thru Subject: choose no career what I heard Message: PT, I'm sure that you'll say that this was ancient history, but Maharaji and his representatives used to say don't waste your time with a career. One of the earliest incarnations was the logo Knowledge you can't get in College. However, I have heard the general theme of not needing a career into the '90s. Yet, only a few years ago (in the '90s) I heard BM say not to bother with saving money for the future (ie. retirement) because the money wouldn't be worth anything. Well, consider that you take BM's advice and you don't save anything at all for the future. Are you gonna be better off or worse off than a person who did save for their future? Everybody laughed approvingly when he said that like Oh, our Guru Maharaji will take care of us. Certainly, BM is still making reckless, irresponsible statements that affect the actions of his followers. What actions am I talkin about:
Man, we all probably know premies who got credit cards and blew the whole wad on travelling to see the BM and ending up bankrupt. Let's see now, what did you say... And stop blaming M & K for the decisions you, and only, make That's pure B.S. when BM is making such statements while portraying himself as The Lord of the Universe. In that position he has an incredible amount of influence. Too much, in fact. It is sick and unethical on his part. And it is pathetic how you refuse to acknowledge the possible negative effects of his influence in people's lives. You, my friend, need to grow up and accept a dose of reality in your life. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jan 08, 1999 at 10:29:01 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: barney Subject: choose no career what I heard Message: barney: I'm beginning to see PT as a total waste of mental effort. He's just a fully-programmed gurunoid-borg-clone that is totally incapable of introspection and self-generated thoughts (outside the collective, of course). If you pulled 'it's' mental tape-loop, 'it' would collapse on the floor! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jan 08, 1999 at 14:11:59 (EST)
From: barney Email: None To: Mike Subject: fully-programmed gurunoid Message: I agree. PT is full blown. And I personally believe that PT typifies premie-think, premie-speak, premie-do. He most likely represents the majority of premies. Hell, he might even be middle of the road. There's no point in trying to get PT over to our side, but his posts are invaluable. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jan 08, 1999 at 11:46:15 (EST)
From: Helen Email: None To: Passing thru Subject: PT: WHo are you?? Message: I was anticipating your (and other GM apologists' ) answer to John's point, PT, as I was thinking about how GM never addressed the practical things of life. I just could hear those very words coming out of your mouth, because I've heard the very same words come out of many premies' mouths when I would express my concerns about how GM doesn't address ethics or morals, and other practical & philosphical issues. Instead he tells you of a beautiful place within where you can go. Well, fine and dandy. groovy. Maharaji also said 'surrender your life to ME'. Therefore, I expect him to have a little more of a complete philosophy that addresses life more fully. I expect him to be more of a complete package as they say. You put so much energy into maintaining your stance about this beautiful place inside over & over. Well, fine, groovy, but really, PT, so what?? Is that all life is to you, going to a beautiful place? Isn't there more to life than this? Maharaji's trip is BORING, man. Back to the surrender issue. If you are saying that premies have license to think for themselves in matters dealing with sex, careers, etc, why was Maharaji's message 'surrender totally to me'? Doesn't this imply that he would take care of those things? I don't know--I always had too many questions, so being a simple devoted premie was not a life for me. I wanted more out of religion & life, and I didn't want to be in a fight with my mind. I value my mind and my mind is not out to harm me or others. My mind was searching for something more than just a feel-good trip. Thank goodness for these minds and brains God gave us, these minds that crave real meaning and not some stupid feel-good trip. You know I have never heard you address any other topic other than 'that beautiful place inside that GM shows us.' Who are you, PT? What is your philosophy of life? What struggles have you faced in life? What are your values? YES, PT, WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT???? I mean, who the hell are you besides Maharaji's little spokesman???? Who are you as a man or a woman? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jan 08, 1999 at 12:10:43 (EST)
From: Bobby Email: None To: Helen Subject: who are you?? Message: Helen said: 'I don't know--I always had too many questions, so being a simple devoted premie was not a life for me. I wanted more out of religion & life, and I didn't want to be in a fight with my mind. I value my mind and my mind is not out to harm me or others. My mind was searching for something more than just a feel-good trip. Thank goodness for these minds and brains God gave us, these minds that crave real meaning and not some stupid feel-good trip.' I've always felt this way, at least since before I was a premie. I had some hard shocks in my life early on and they set me on my course. As I've said before, I have no regrets for my involvement with Maharaji and feel I'd be dead or insane now were it not for the sort of 'halfway house' that was my ashram experience and involvement with DLM in the seventies. I was never satisfied with the songs of 'Lord of the Universe' (I hated that song) or the idea of Maharaji as the total trip. I always looked for expressions of Spirit wherever they showed up. I read a lot and checked out a lot of different trips. Even at the time of Maharaji there were many spiritual influences in my life, (not the least being my rather extreme personal experiences). Everyone of us is different. You Helen, have seemed to have arrived at different relationships with the 'spiritual dimensions' than I have. Obviously, there are many others on this forum with many other takes on spirituality. I accept and attempt to honor the experiences of each and every one. What I find hard to deal with is the anger that is directed as personal attacks. I understand anger. I have my own anger. My anger stems from different circumstances than the anger of many others here. I've never been satisfied with a simple 'feel good' trip and have all along looked for true resolution, not only of my anger, but of many other aspects as well. This quest has been an ongoing process and has involved confrontations and questions involving many aspects of emotion, mind, body and spirit. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jan 08, 1999 at 13:43:06 (EST)
From: Helen Email: None To: Bobby Subject: Hey Bobby Message: There's nothing I disagree with in your post. I also try to honor peoples' beliefs. However, I do not honor people surrendering to a guru. I do not think that GM encouraged the type of spiritual seeking and exploration that you and I both engage in. We were acting out of a healthy human instinct, in my opinion. But Maharaji does not endorse such healthy spiritual seeking. If you and I were sheltered from life in GM's world while we licked the wounds of our childhoods, then we used it for good, and then we moved on. But GM's trip taken at its face is not good for people, IMO. I have never held the position that everyone has to think like me. God help them if they do, my own definition of God, etc is pretty eccentric and I don't expect anyone to share it with me. WHen I post I am just giving my opinion of the moment--my very idiosyncratic, opinionated opinion du jour. I guess I do have a bias towards morality/humanism and practical spirituality and am kind of skeptical about focusing on angels and stuff like that. But hey, I'm open. If an angel appeared to me today I'd be thrilled and awed. ANd hey, I pray, I don't know what the mechanism is that prayer is, but I try to pray for people in trouble and pain. I pray that I don't become an old arthritic bitter geezer who thinks she knows it all. As far as the anger goes, you know I agree with you that sometimes posts on here get too personal and attacking. I don't like that either. I think people should treat one another with respect. But anger doesn't scare me as much as it used to. I've developed a tough skin through the years. I'd rather see someone get good and pissed off than be 'detached'. I don't know--I hate confrontation as much as the next guy but sometimes here on the forum premies that don't deal with the corrupt aspects of GM do get under peoples' skin. If they are met with by anger, maybe that response is appropriate. Maybe that response is a consequence of their own 'stinkin' thinkin'' as they say in A.A. I mean we all live in the world. This is a little community. We all have to give one another feedback at times. Good to hear from you, Bobby, I hope I don't sound dogmatic or anything...challenge me if I do. Your post about your bookstore disppeared before I had the chance to respond. I think it's really cool that you ran that bookstore.and it's good that you can be objective and look at your premie experience in postitive ways. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jan 08, 1999 at 22:29:59 (EST)
From: peter Email: None To: Helen Subject: an embarrassment to premies Message: Maybe you noticed op telling him to shut up. Which would seem to be an act of decency on her part. But it may be more an act of embarrassment. I've started to realize that, although PT probably sees himself as a heroic defender of Maharaji, he's pretty far outside the party lines. He has repeatedly taken a posture that can be summed up as, 'Take the good that Maharaji has to offer, and when he's full of shit , just ignore him.' I wonder what would happen if Maharaji knew who he was? I'm assuming Maharaji knows what he's said on the forum. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jan 09, 1999 at 08:51:08 (EST)
From: Helen Email: None To: peter Subject: an embarrassment to premies Message: A lot of premies feel that way( take the good, ignore the bad), and don't want to get close enough to Maharaji to examine the corruption in Maharaji's world. They have a good gig going with the guru of their imagination. Or they are having a good experience with the meditation and attribute it to Maharaji so they don't see a need to rock the boat. They could have their cake and eat it too--they can still meditate til the cows come home AND look at GM without their blinders on. It's all up to them, I guess. How ya doin', Peter Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jan 08, 1999 at 11:19:15 (EST)
From: Helen Email: None To: John Subject: Life is what happens to you... Message: while you're busy making other plans. Great post, John. This is what always disturbed me about GM too. The trip never addressed anything practical that dealt with real life, man! Life is made up of these practical nuts & bolts like eating, sex, kids, disease, money, how to treat each other, work, death. I mean this always used to bother me. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jan 07, 1999 at 18:58:06 (EST)
From: Passing thru Email: None To: x Subject: I disagree with x Message: Dear x, I don't blame 'all the problems, contradictions and inconsistencies on idiotic premies'. I'm just aware that ten of thousands of rational, mature people don't have 'all the problems, contradictions and inconsistencies' that you complain of. PT Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jan 08, 1999 at 00:00:23 (EST)
From: x Email: None To: Passing thru Subject: Thats because... Message: they are all brainwashed, just like you, Passing thru. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jan 07, 1999 at 15:24:58 (EST)
From: Nimrod Email: None To: Jerry& JIM Subject: How I see it Message: I totally agree with you, Jerry, on the subject of PT's agenda. I'm not so sure about shp but I suppose that's what makes him,in the very least,a bit interesting.shp also brings an intelligence and quality to his posts which I feel is undeniable in spite of my being turned off, or in disagreement, with most of what he has to say.Perhaps that's why he bugs me so much. But like I said, I will not deny his quality and intelligence,and appreciable effort in contributing to these pages.Of all the premies here,he is the only one doing any genuine questioning or serious thinking on ANY subject being discussed,and as such, I believe his contribution ought to be considered welcome here, although... I still don't like what he has to say most of the time. From what I can make out of these CD and op characters, they're basically functional propagandists,quite often bringing with them a blatant callousness on the most sensitive of issues.As such, I believe that everyone looking in should be able to see them for who and what they truly are. PT,HOWEVER, is truly providing us with the greatest exhibition of moronity EVER provided, BY ANY PREMIE, in the cult's history.While CD and op are FUNCTIONAL PROPAGANDISTS, PT is most definitely,A DYSFUNCTIONAL PROPAGANDIST, a spectacular advertisement for the whole world to behold just how MENTALLY,EMOTIONALLY, and yeh, I'll say it, even SPIRITUALLY DEGENERATING maharaji and his cult really are. I mean this guy is SO BAD, certainly by now in Gulag Premielago,he should be considered a 'dangerous premie liability' float'n around on the net, and I won't be surprised if the boys from Malibu come to PT pretty soon, to take him 'away ...to the funny farm, where life is beautiful all the time' or, in the very least put an end to his postings here. Then again, perhaps the Goomster luvs us ex-premies so much, he's given us his TRULY BEGOTTEN MORON, PT, as a gift you might say, from him to us. Well, what did we expect anyways?Maharaji has always been dishing out a raw deal.PT is just another one. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jan 07, 1999 at 19:20:38 (EST)
From: Passing thru Email: None To: Nimrod Subject: Sticks and stones Nimrod. Message: Dear Nimrod, Are you suggesting I should communicate more like you? I don't think that will be happening. PT Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jan 07, 1999 at 21:26:01 (EST)
From: Nimrod Email: None To: Passing thru Subject: ..but did you like the names? Message: BY the way, do you know what Jim means when he says that you're 'not a moron, just an asshole?' Curious. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jan 08, 1999 at 11:54:41 (EST)
From: Helen Email: None To: Nimrod Subject: How I see it Message: FABULOUS POST--and GM gave his moronic begotten son--I love it Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jan 07, 1999 at 18:52:14 (EST)
From: Passing thru Email: None To: Jerry Subject: I disagree with Jerry Message: Dear Jerry, I went through this months ago but here is a synopsis. Millions of people have heard M talk. Hundred of thousands have received Knowledge. And tens of thousands of people practise the techniques of Knowledge everyday. Knowledge doesn't drive people to suicide. And Maharaji has always called life our greatest gift, something to be treasured, respected, accepted. To suggest that M & K is in anyway to blame for a suicide is not only illogical, it flies in the face of all medical knowledge.. Suicide is the culmination of a lifetime of thoughts and feelings, of understandings and misunderstandings. With the exception of euthanasia, it is almost always the action of the mentally or emotionally disturbed. Who, unlike the rest of us, cannot deal with what others perceive as a normal occurrence or at the least something than can be handled in a less drastic manner. It is the action of a tiny minority of the population. Which is why thousands of people can happily tolerate or even enjoy a situation that may turn one person to suicide. It is not a straw that breaks a camel's back, it is the last straw of many. PT Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jan 07, 1999 at 20:17:33 (EST)
From: Jerry Email: None To: Passing thru Subject: One more try Message: Knowledge doesn't drive people to suicide. If you're talking about 4 simple meditation techniques, no that wouldn't. But if somebody feels neglected by the 'Lord Of The Universe', such as VP's friend, or feels he's not good enough for 'The Lord Of The Universe', such as Jim's friend, that could. And Maharaji has always called life our greatest gift, something to be treasured, respected, accepted. Just hearing somebody say that doesn't make you feel it. Suicide is the culmination of a lifetime of thoughts and feelings, of understandings and misunderstandings. Bullshit. New-age speak that don't mean a damn thing. With the exception of euthanasia, it is almost always the action of the mentally or emotionally disturbed. No, Pt, not ALMOST always. It is DEFINITELY always the action of the mentally or emotionally disturbed. The question is, what is a premie, who's practicing Knowledge doing being mentally or emotionally disturbed? Maharaji has said that people who were completely crazy gave their craziness to him and he burnt it (figuratively speaking of course). He said, if you're having problems with your mind to give it to him and he'll fix it for you so that it won't cause you any further problems. People who commit suicide have still got problems in their minds so Maharaji, obviously, either lied to, or failed premies who committed suicide. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jan 09, 1999 at 17:49:45 (EST)
From: VP Email: None To: Jerry Subject: One more try Message: The question is, what is a premie, who's practicing Knowledge doing being mentally or emotionally disturbed? Maharaji has said that people who were completely crazy gave their craziness to him and he burnt it (figuratively speaking of course). He said, if you're having problems with your mind to give it to him and he'll fix it for you so that it won't cause you any further problems. People who commit suicide have still got problems in their minds so Maharaji, obviously, either lied to, or failed premies who committed suicide. Jerry, once again, you've got it! (So true it belongs in bold type) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jan 07, 1999 at 22:20:45 (EST)
From: SHP Email: None To: Passing thru Subject: YOU ARE DISAGREEABLE TONITE Message: you said: Millions of people have heard M talk. Hundred of thousands have received Knowledge. And tens of thousands of people practise the techniques of Knowledge everyday. since when is this about numbers? since when is this about how many are doing it? how many people are participating in something is no validation for its authenticity or lack of same. 'broad is the way that leads to destruction and narrow is the way that leads to the kingdom and few there be that find it' - paraphrase, New Testament Jesus the Christ premie: a lover of TRUTH....not a lover of one's own distorted view of the cosmos or who's who in the spiritual heirarchy. your energy and volume of effort are high, pt, but you need a tune-up. and i am a premie telling you this. you are doing more harm than good. you are using your truth like a sledgehammer, and you don't cut butter with a chain saw. if the good lord sees fit to let the sun shine on these folks and the rain fall on them and air to fill their lungs and give them life, then who are you or anyone to rebuke their existence or imply that their experience is less genuine, valuable, real or valid, than yours. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jan 07, 1999 at 22:27:12 (EST)
From: shp Email: None To: pt Subject: with the snap of his fingers Message: the lord god almighty could throw YOU, pt into outer darkness and take the most hurting and confused soul to the supreme abode for lunch and flip'em the keys to the kingdom REMEMBER! PRIDE GOES BEFORE A FALL! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jan 08, 1999 at 09:49:33 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: Passing thru Subject: Tell me PT the doctor Message: PT: You said, 'To suggest that M & K is in anyway to blame for a suicide is not only illogical, it flies in the face of all medical knowledge..' To what 'medical knowledge' do you refer, PT? What 'medical studies' have been done on M & K? What competent authority has studied the effects of M-worship & K on a person? Where are the results of this research published? Be SPECIFIC with your citations, PT.... I know how to read medical journals. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jan 07, 1999 at 16:22:33 (EST)
From: VP Email: None To: Jim Subject: I was wrong, PT Message: Jim, I thought about what you wrote above before I posted-PT being insincere and all that. I don't like him, but I feel responsibility to speak correctly, even to someone who is insincere. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jan 07, 1999 at 18:18:28 (EST)
From: Passing thru Email: None To: Jim Subject: Not right Jim.. Message: Dear Jim, Not taking this site seriously doesn't mean that I am not being honest and sincere. It simply means that when someone posts an absurd claim or an off topic rave that I don't take it seriously, I take it with a grain of salt. How am I supposed to take the posts about 'M's secret meeting with high up honchos to discuss his retirement' when it was Long Beach '97 with 9,000 people? Seriously or not seriously? PT Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jan 07, 1999 at 20:38:23 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Passing thru Subject: Too late, PT Message: PT, I knew you'd say this. That's just part of the entertainment, isn't it? Sorry, bud. You've lifted the curtain once and once is enough. There's no way in the world I'll ever take you seriously after your reply. You had a chance to thoughtfully consider what I said which, if I say so myself, was eminently reasonable. Your only comment was that you don't really take this stuff seriously. Too late, PT. By the way, where's your son? If he ever read this shit -- and it IS still shit, and you ARE still an asshole (not a moron, just an asshole) -- you better hope you can persuade him you were only fooling. Hey but you will! You've got that post to refer to after all. Keep it up, bro'. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jan 07, 1999 at 18:11:05 (EST)
From: Passing thru Email: None To: VP Subject: You're alright VP.. Message: Dear VP, Thankyou. PT Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jan 08, 1999 at 14:41:02 (EST)
From: VP Email: None To: Passing thru Subject: You're alright VP.. Message: PT, Thanks. I say I've made a mistake when I have. Do you think what you said to Selene was a mistake above? Afterall, you don't really know her, do you? I said you were mean but I don't know you other than by your words here. The words to Selene were mean. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jan 08, 1999 at 22:44:34 (EST)
From: peter Email: None To: VP Subject: unrealistic expectations Message: You admitted that you made a mistake because you're a decent human being. PT is not. Maybe I missed it, but of all the vicious crap that PT has posted I don't remember one apology or one retraction. The guy is one miserable fucked-up excuse for a person. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jan 09, 1999 at 17:20:48 (EST)
From: VP Email: None To: peter Subject: Some things I will Message: never understand. For example, how is it that some people can say or do something wrong and not attempt to make amends. It makes me crazy. You are a decent person, too, peter. Thanks. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jan 09, 1999 at 23:56:53 (EST)
From: Selene Email: None To: VP Subject: Some things I will Message: Having had a bit of that come down on my head this week I felt like answering. And sorry PT it weren't you you don't deserve teh credit. As some of you know, my sister did that to me recently. A bad one. In her case after doing some serious thinking about it and talking with both of my doctor's and lots of others, I have decided she is not well. I mean it. She is sick, mentally. There was some damage done to both of us but I have had to work, to seek help, and work on healing. In my case simply because i didn't have a rich husband who let me hang around collecting glass pigs like she does. So she didn't work on that childhood crap and other issues because she didn't have to, in order to survive financially. I used to envy her ( or is it be jealous of her Jim :):) ) Now I see that I was very lucky since I have been forced out of my shell. (not that I am there yet but so much better) Maybe this is the case with a lot of those types who don't try to make amends. They are so selfishly involved they can't see that they should. I have seen this in premies but others as well. And not all premies of course. But more than one would think considering it's supposed to make life better for them. I guess they feel like since it's all an illusion and only one thing matters that they can shit all over people and so what? Again I don't mean all. shp actually seemed like a decent person to me. Of course I confess to not reading all his posts. A few others have come here and been ok. And I know a few in real life that I still consider wonderful people. But then again, they would be anyway so I doubt it has anything to do with M. Thanks for listening. I needed that. And I agree, you are great Peter. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sun, Jan 10, 1999 at 09:14:48 (EST)
From: Helen Email: None To: Selene Subject: Some things I will Message: Hey Selene, You are so right. I think that good people (people with consciences) would probably be that way premie or not (unless they are PAMS which seems to give people a conscience lobotomy) I have gone through some heavy things with family members. The reverberating journey (as one psychologist put it) for me meant the scary but ultimately liberating act of setting corrective limits with bullies in my family. Bullies cannot set limits for themselves so others must do it for them. Keep on being strong, girlfriend, just because someone is a family member does not mean you have to be friends!! Love, Helen Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jan 07, 1999 at 04:51:32 (EST)
From: TD Email: None To: Everyone Subject: www.maharaji.org Message: I don't know if I'm late off the mark and you've all already seen this little gem, but enjoyingcultlife.org have this address as their latest NEWSFLASH. It's an absolute ground-breaker in terms of website imagery and I'm sure Hallmark cards will be wanting to borrow this picture and original text for next year's Christmas range. I'm a bit confused though. Is this the Big M's personal website now or what, and can we expect other little beauties like this one for other holidays. Mother's Day greetings from the Big M, for example? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jan 07, 1999 at 05:03:00 (EST)
From: TD Email: None To: TD Subject: www.maharaji.org Message: Actually, I noticed on the last page it has copyright by Purevoice LLC which I'm guessing is a British limited company (by guarantee?) and so maybe a premie site, as opposed to a Big M one. Purevoice? Hmmmm, do you think there's something relevant about that name? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jan 07, 1999 at 08:21:30 (EST)
From: AJW Email: anthginn@yahoo.com To: TD Subject: www.maharaji.org Message: Aaagh. More flowers and streams. Is there no end to this kitch? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jan 07, 1999 at 10:14:24 (EST)
From: syd Email: syd@gold.ac.uk To: AJW Subject: www.maharaji.org Message: I think the word is infinite... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jan 07, 1999 at 11:18:35 (EST)
From: Jethro Email: None To: AJW Subject: www.maharaji.org Message: 'Is there no end to this kitch?' There's always a new bunch of mugs. It's been going on since time immemorial. The ultimate con...religion. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jan 07, 1999 at 13:07:39 (EST)
From: John Email: None To: AJW Subject: www.maharaji.org Message: I can't believe I was ever into this. Really nothing has changed. Remember those ridiculous glossy covers to 'And It Is Divine'? What was that supposed to reflect? GMJ's slick act? Jeez, we are sooooo negative! Isn't it great? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jan 07, 1999 at 13:19:22 (EST)
From: x Email: None To: John Subject: www.maharaji.org Message: Hey, has anyone noticed what an incredible hippocrite(sp?) Maharaji is lately in regard to the internet. Didn't he used to trash the net and reccomend(?,demand!) his followers stay off the net? Now that he's got HIS website up, and that enjoyingpravda.com crap, do you think he will continue dissing the net? What a turnaround huh? Like they say, if you can't beat 'em, join 'em. What a jerk. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jan 08, 1999 at 11:02:14 (EST)
From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: x Subject: m's deceit exposed Message: what an incredible hippocrite(sp?) Maharaji is lately in regard to the internet. I don't think he's an hypocrite. He is intelligent, and a good chess player. He's been forced to make a move, and that's the ONLY move available for him (beside resigning for good and desappearing from the video screens). The very existence of this site took him out of the wood, and that's what's good about it. What's bad is that he is again announcing something great to the premies, and the poor guys are going to invest a lot in that 'Phase II' business, purchasing a lot of new sophisticated equipment for his megalomania. Believe me, EV's managers must be very busy meeting and having conferences about all the new 'changes' and paranoia. We'll hear about it soon I guess. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |