Ex-Premie.Org

Forum III Archive # 34

From: Dec 30, 1998

To: Jan 12, 1999

Page: 3 Of: 5



Robyn -:- David M -:- Tues, Jan 05, 1999 at 07:01:52 (EST)
__Robyn -:- PS: David M -:- Tues, Jan 05, 1999 at 07:03:57 (EST)
____Gail -:- David M -:- Tues, Jan 05, 1999 at 07:19:35 (EST)
__Bobby -:- David M -:- Tues, Jan 05, 1999 at 08:13:06 (EST)
____Robyn -:- to Bobby -:- Tues, Jan 05, 1999 at 09:33:09 (EST)
__Sir David -:- David M -:- Tues, Jan 05, 1999 at 08:33:05 (EST)
__Jerry -:- David M -:- Tues, Jan 05, 1999 at 10:15:55 (EST)
__Katie -:- David M -:- Tues, Jan 05, 1999 at 18:38:33 (EST)
____Helen -:- David M -:- Tues, Jan 05, 1999 at 23:15:39 (EST)

PT's Mom -:- My baby does the hanky panky. -:- Tues, Jan 05, 1999 at 01:16:57 (EST)
__Passing thru -:- Dear Mom -:- Tues, Jan 05, 1999 at 16:31:51 (EST)
____Jim -:- 'real life' communication -:- Tues, Jan 05, 1999 at 22:55:37 (EST)
______Passing thru -:- Thank you Jim -:- Tues, Jan 05, 1999 at 23:36:10 (EST)
________Jim -:- Not at all -:- Wed, Jan 06, 1999 at 08:07:55 (EST)
__________VP -:- Having fun? -:- Wed, Jan 06, 1999 at 11:25:38 (EST)
____________Mike -:- Nah, just detached.... -:- Wed, Jan 06, 1999 at 16:15:00 (EST)
______________VP -:- detatched, apathetic, pathetic -:- Wed, Jan 06, 1999 at 17:30:33 (EST)
______________Passing thru -:- Take care Mike.... -:- Thurs, Jan 07, 1999 at 00:20:16 (EST)
________________Mike -:- What mistakes? -:- Thurs, Jan 07, 1999 at 10:32:50 (EST)
____________Passing thru -:- Having truth VP? -:- Thurs, Jan 07, 1999 at 00:15:54 (EST)
______________VP -:- Having truth VP? -:- Thurs, Jan 07, 1999 at 10:30:05 (EST)
__________Passing thru -:- Lighten up Jim.. -:- Thurs, Jan 07, 1999 at 00:12:48 (EST)
____________Nimrod -:- You're living proof, man. -:- Thurs, Jan 07, 1999 at 05:12:53 (EST)
______________Nimrod -:- You're living proof...correct. -:- Thurs, Jan 07, 1999 at 05:50:19 (EST)
____________spread THIS knowledge -:- Lighten up Jim.. -:- Thurs, Jan 07, 1999 at 07:14:46 (EST)
________eb -:- Thank you Jim -:- Wed, Jan 06, 1999 at 16:43:24 (EST)
__________Passing thru -:- Thank you eb -:- Thurs, Jan 07, 1999 at 00:23:41 (EST)

Selene -:- new quote for a new year -:- Mon, Jan 04, 1999 at 15:57:03 (EST)
__chr -:- To Nimrod,dv and others -:- Mon, Jan 04, 1999 at 17:35:22 (EST)
____Premmey -:- To Nimrod,dv and others -:- Tues, Jan 05, 1999 at 01:00:45 (EST)
______Nimrod -:- To Nimrod,dv and others -:- Tues, Jan 05, 1999 at 19:07:11 (EST)
________dv -:- To Nimrod,dv and others -:- Wed, Jan 06, 1999 at 00:01:45 (EST)
__________Gail -:- Is Michael Paragon still -:- Thurs, Jan 07, 1999 at 00:07:12 (EST)
____________dv -:- Is Michael Paragon still -:- Thurs, Jan 07, 1999 at 15:48:08 (EST)
____dv -:- To Nimrod,dv and others -:- Tues, Jan 05, 1999 at 12:24:35 (EST)
______chr -:- To Nimrod,dv and others -:- Tues, Jan 05, 1999 at 17:50:55 (EST)
________Helen -:- To Nimrod,dv and others -:- Tues, Jan 05, 1999 at 23:09:28 (EST)
__________dv -:- To Nimrod,dv and others -:- Wed, Jan 06, 1999 at 00:07:57 (EST)

Katie -:- Happy Birthday, Helen!! -:- Mon, Jan 04, 1999 at 00:04:33 (EST)
__shp -:- Happy Birthday, Helen!! -:- Mon, Jan 04, 1999 at 00:16:15 (EST)
____Helen -:- Happy Birthday, Helen!! -:- Mon, Jan 04, 1999 at 18:35:14 (EST)
__Mickey the Pharisee -:- Happy Birthday, Helen!! -:- Mon, Jan 04, 1999 at 01:00:07 (EST)
____Helen -:- Happy Birthday, Helen!! -:- Mon, Jan 04, 1999 at 18:32:00 (EST)
__peter -:- Happy Birthday, Helen!! -:- Mon, Jan 04, 1999 at 02:17:43 (EST)
____Helen -:- Happy Birthday, Helen!! -:- Mon, Jan 04, 1999 at 18:29:51 (EST)
__Sir David -:- Happy Birthday, Helen!! -:- Mon, Jan 04, 1999 at 05:00:10 (EST)
____TD -:- Happy Birthday, Helen!! -:- Mon, Jan 04, 1999 at 06:19:34 (EST)
______TD -:- And a belated HB to JW too! -:- Mon, Jan 04, 1999 at 06:45:54 (EST)
______Helen -:- Happy Birthday, Helen!! -:- Mon, Jan 04, 1999 at 18:02:57 (EST)
____Helen -:- Happy Birthday, Helen!! -:- Mon, Jan 04, 1999 at 18:18:09 (EST)
__Robyn -:- Happy Birthday, Helen!! -:- Mon, Jan 04, 1999 at 07:46:13 (EST)
____Helen -:- Happy Birthday, Helen!! -:- Mon, Jan 04, 1999 at 18:00:33 (EST)
__Jerry -:- Happy Birthday, Helen!! -:- Mon, Jan 04, 1999 at 09:56:33 (EST)
____Helen -:- Happy Birthday, Helen!! -:- Mon, Jan 04, 1999 at 17:52:30 (EST)
______Jerry -:- I'm sorry, Helen -:- Tues, Jan 05, 1999 at 10:47:21 (EST)
__John -:- Happy Birthday, Helen!! -:- Mon, Jan 04, 1999 at 10:10:19 (EST)
____Jerry -:- Hey, Mr. Cheerful -:- Mon, Jan 04, 1999 at 11:06:55 (EST)
______Gail -:- Hapyy Birthday! -:- Mon, Jan 04, 1999 at 12:22:21 (EST)
________RT -:- Happy Birthday!? > Your gift: -:- Mon, Jan 04, 1999 at 13:34:35 (EST)
__________Helen -:- Happy Birthday!? > Your gift: -:- Mon, Jan 04, 1999 at 17:27:06 (EST)
____________RT -:- Happy Birthday! Yep. Your gift -:- Mon, Jan 04, 1999 at 18:18:14 (EST)
________Helen -:- Hapyy Birthday! -:- Mon, Jan 04, 1999 at 17:46:56 (EST)
______eb -:- My but aren't we the happy lot -:- Mon, Jan 04, 1999 at 14:09:17 (EST)
________Helen -:- My but aren't we the happy lot -:- Mon, Jan 04, 1999 at 17:43:26 (EST)
__________eb -:- I was almost finished... -:- Mon, Jan 04, 1999 at 18:50:13 (EST)
____________VP -:- eb, you crack me up-(nt) -:- Wed, Jan 06, 1999 at 15:52:21 (EST)
____Helen -:- Happy Birthday, Helen!! -:- Mon, Jan 04, 1999 at 17:22:31 (EST)
__Selene -:- Happy Birthday, Helen!! -:- Mon, Jan 04, 1999 at 14:00:56 (EST)
____Helen -:- Happy Birthday, Helen!! -:- Mon, Jan 04, 1999 at 17:32:55 (EST)
__VP -:- Happy Birthday, Helen!! -:- Mon, Jan 04, 1999 at 16:22:36 (EST)
____Helen -:- Happy Birthday, Helen!! -:- Mon, Jan 04, 1999 at 17:39:53 (EST)
__Helen -:- Happy Birthday, Helen!! -:- Mon, Jan 04, 1999 at 18:41:40 (EST)
____Katie -:- Misha/Mischa -:- Tues, Jan 05, 1999 at 18:18:13 (EST)
______Helen -:- Misha/Mischa -:- Tues, Jan 05, 1999 at 22:41:04 (EST)
________Katie -:- Misha/Mischa -:- Tues, Jan 05, 1999 at 23:01:54 (EST)
__JW -:- Happy Birthday, Helen!! -:- Mon, Jan 04, 1999 at 19:06:06 (EST)
____Helen -:- Happy Birthday, Helen!! -:- Tues, Jan 05, 1999 at 00:08:44 (EST)
__Jim -:- Happy Birthday, Helen!! -:- Mon, Jan 04, 1999 at 21:27:36 (EST)
____Helen -:- Happy Birthday, Helen!! -:- Tues, Jan 05, 1999 at 00:18:26 (EST)
______barney -:- Happy Birthday, Helen!! -:- Tues, Jan 05, 1999 at 03:12:05 (EST)
________RT -:- Happy Belated Birthday, Helen! -:- Tues, Jan 05, 1999 at 13:02:05 (EST)
________Helen -:- Happy Birthday, Helen!! -:- Tues, Jan 05, 1999 at 16:23:39 (EST)
__________Runamok -:- Happy Birthday, Helen!! -:- Tues, Jan 05, 1999 at 19:52:40 (EST)
____________Helen -:- Thanks Runamok -:- Tues, Jan 05, 1999 at 22:45:19 (EST)
______________x -:- Happy Birthday, Helen!! -:- Tues, Jan 05, 1999 at 23:27:05 (EST)
________________Helen -:- Paiit Labelle's 'X' -:- Tues, Jan 05, 1999 at 23:34:27 (EST)

chr -:- christmas -:- Sun, Jan 03, 1999 at 15:42:08 (EST)
__Robyn -:- christmas -:- Sun, Jan 03, 1999 at 19:25:57 (EST)
__Helen -:- christmas -:- Sun, Jan 03, 1999 at 23:26:45 (EST)
____Bobby -:- books -:- Tues, Jan 05, 1999 at 16:48:34 (EST)
______Helen -:- books -:- Tues, Jan 05, 1999 at 23:42:25 (EST)
________Bobby -:- books -:- Wed, Jan 06, 1999 at 07:22:25 (EST)

peter -:- excellent analysis, PT! -:- Sat, Jan 02, 1999 at 22:26:33 (EST)
__Helen -:- excellent analysis, PT! -:- Sat, Jan 02, 1999 at 22:43:55 (EST)
____Katie -:- email (ot) -:- Sun, Jan 03, 1999 at 00:24:14 (EST)
__barney -:- PT understands the danger! -:- Sun, Jan 03, 1999 at 04:07:08 (EST)
__Passing thru -:- Nice try Peter.. -:- Sun, Jan 03, 1999 at 20:25:20 (EST)
____Helen -:- Nice try Peter.. -:- Sun, Jan 03, 1999 at 23:16:05 (EST)
______Gail -:- It's his serve-us or -:- Sun, Jan 03, 1999 at 23:51:55 (EST)
________Passing thru -:- Give in Gail -:- Mon, Jan 04, 1999 at 04:10:02 (EST)
______Passing thru -:- Happy -:- Mon, Jan 04, 1999 at 04:06:43 (EST)
________Jerry -:- Happy -:- Mon, Jan 04, 1999 at 09:59:37 (EST)
____Nimrod -:- Bad try PT -:- Mon, Jan 04, 1999 at 01:02:54 (EST)
______shp -:- reply to Nimrod, et al -:- Mon, Jan 04, 1999 at 01:21:04 (EST)
________Nimrod -:- reply to shp , et al -:- Mon, Jan 04, 1999 at 03:11:27 (EST)
__________shp -:- beg your pardon? -:- Mon, Jan 04, 1999 at 12:36:34 (EST)
____________Nimrod -:- beg your pardon? -:- Mon, Jan 04, 1999 at 17:58:08 (EST)
______________Nimrod -:- correction, I meant... -:- Mon, Jan 04, 1999 at 18:01:55 (EST)
______________shp -:- squeeze out a tune -:- Mon, Jan 04, 1999 at 18:45:43 (EST)
____________peter -:- hospital story & analogy -:- Mon, Jan 04, 1999 at 22:49:48 (EST)
______________shp -:- hospital story & analogy -:- Wed, Jan 06, 1999 at 01:35:41 (EST)
________barney -:- Playing Doctor -:- Mon, Jan 04, 1999 at 03:19:14 (EST)
__________Dr Passing thru -:- This won't hurt... -:- Mon, Jan 04, 1999 at 04:34:30 (EST)
____________x -:- This won't hurt... -:- Mon, Jan 04, 1999 at 12:05:27 (EST)
____________barney -:- I agree, you're right -:- Mon, Jan 04, 1999 at 14:34:48 (EST)
______________P -:- I agree, you're right -:- Mon, Jan 04, 1999 at 16:13:31 (EST)
________________T -:- I agree, you're right -:- Mon, Jan 04, 1999 at 17:12:37 (EST)
__________________TP -:- I agree, you're right -:- Mon, Jan 04, 1999 at 17:15:48 (EST)
____________VP -:- This won't hurt... -:- Mon, Jan 04, 1999 at 16:36:34 (EST)
____________Mike -:- This won't hurt...WRONG! -:- Mon, Jan 04, 1999 at 17:09:48 (EST)
____________Jethro -:- This won't hurt... -:- Tues, Jan 05, 1999 at 01:52:54 (EST)
____________Anne -:- This won't hurt... -:- Wed, Jan 06, 1999 at 17:21:53 (EST)
______Passing thru -:- Stay well Nimrod -:- Mon, Jan 04, 1999 at 04:27:15 (EST)
________Nimrod -:- Stay well Nimrod...&... -:- Mon, Jan 04, 1999 at 17:37:33 (EST)
____peter -:- PT in Maharaji's hospital -:- Mon, Jan 04, 1999 at 22:22:47 (EST)
______Jim -:- In defence of PT (nt) -:- Mon, Jan 04, 1999 at 22:33:21 (EST)

Larkin -:- Love you all - Fill yer boots! -:- Sat, Jan 02, 1999 at 19:50:40 (EST)
__bill -:- Love you all - Fill yer boots! -:- Sat, Jan 02, 1999 at 21:42:58 (EST)
____Gail -:- Love you all - Fill yer boots! -:- Sat, Jan 02, 1999 at 21:46:30 (EST)
______Helen -:- Love you all - Fill yer boots! -:- Sat, Jan 02, 1999 at 22:48:40 (EST)
________Helen -:- Love you all - Fill yer boots! -:- Sat, Jan 02, 1999 at 22:54:41 (EST)
__________Willi Kranz -:- To be comfortable ist schon -:- Sat, Jan 02, 1999 at 23:24:08 (EST)
____________Robyn -:- To be comfortable ist schon -:- Sun, Jan 03, 1999 at 06:22:18 (EST)
____________Helen -:- For you, my dear Willi -:- Sun, Jan 03, 1999 at 12:51:08 (EST)
__ham -:- Love you all - Fill yer boots! -:- Sat, Jan 02, 1999 at 23:11:37 (EST)
__Robyn -:- Love you all - Fill yer boots! -:- Sun, Jan 03, 1999 at 06:14:08 (EST)
__RT -:- Yer boots, for better or verse -:- Sun, Jan 03, 1999 at 17:14:17 (EST)
____Helen -:- Yer boots, for better or verse -:- Sun, Jan 03, 1999 at 23:10:21 (EST)
______Katie -:- Yer boots, for better or verse -:- Sun, Jan 03, 1999 at 23:52:31 (EST)
______Robyn -:- Yer boots, for better or verse -:- Mon, Jan 04, 1999 at 08:07:33 (EST)
______Selene -:- what does fill yer boots mean -:- Mon, Jan 04, 1999 at 14:09:19 (EST)
________Helen -:- what does fill yer boots mean -:- Tues, Jan 05, 1999 at 00:25:53 (EST)
__Katie -:- Happy New Year, Larkin! -:- Sun, Jan 03, 1999 at 23:55:03 (EST)
____barney -:- Boots were made for licking -:- Mon, Jan 04, 1999 at 14:54:51 (EST)
______Robyn -:- Boots were made for licking -:- Mon, Jan 04, 1999 at 15:06:01 (EST)
________barney -:- what does fill yer boots mean? -:- Mon, Jan 04, 1999 at 15:47:23 (EST)
__________Robyn -:- what does fill yer boots mean? -:- Mon, Jan 04, 1999 at 18:20:23 (EST)
____________Bootsy -:- what it means... -:- Thurs, Jan 07, 1999 at 08:56:39 (EST)

g's mom -:- where the guru sends his dogs -:- Sat, Jan 02, 1999 at 16:27:30 (EST)
__barney -:- Lawrence Welk & Nikki Sixx -:- Sat, Jan 02, 1999 at 16:37:01 (EST)
____x -:- This is really hilarious -:- Sat, Jan 02, 1999 at 19:00:53 (EST)
__nigel -:- hallowed company indeed -:- Sat, Jan 02, 1999 at 22:52:12 (EST)
____nigel -:- trivia question (ot) -:- Sun, Jan 03, 1999 at 12:09:42 (EST)
______ham -:- trivia question (ot) -:- Sun, Jan 03, 1999 at 15:50:17 (EST)
__They taught the dogs -:- 'Pranam Fido', he taught the -:- Sun, Jan 03, 1999 at 16:19:54 (EST)

syd -:- first western mahatmas in uk -:- Sat, Jan 02, 1999 at 06:14:04 (EST)
__Katie -:- first western mahatmas in uk -:- Sat, Jan 02, 1999 at 11:28:26 (EST)
____Joy -:- first western mahatmas in uk -:- Sat, Jan 02, 1999 at 11:48:11 (EST)
______syd -:- Thanks - and more on Saph -:- Sat, Jan 02, 1999 at 14:55:55 (EST)
________Seymour -:- Thanks - and more on Saph -:- Sat, Jan 02, 1999 at 15:32:14 (EST)
__________syd -:- Thanks - and more on Saph -:- Sat, Jan 02, 1999 at 16:05:49 (EST)
____________seymour -:- Thanks - and more on Saph -:- Sun, Jan 03, 1999 at 08:40:40 (EST)


Date: Tues, Jan 05, 1999 at 07:01:52 (EST)
From: Robyn
Email: sundogs@hotmail.com
To: Everyone
Subject: David M
Message:
To All,
I wasn't sure if or how to go about this but here it goes. David emailed me a couple days ago. His oldest daughter died and he is understandable going to be absent from the forum for awhile. He asked that I tell everyone which I felt funny doing at first but his last sentence keeps replaying in my mind. He said that he is sure he will need help from us eventually. This is why I am writing this now. Who knows when he will check in here but I thought it would be nice for him to find a thread of support to him whether it is in the active or inactive list.
We are good at caring for each other and David needs our caring now.
Thanks.
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Tues, Jan 05, 1999 at 07:03:57 (EST)
From: Robyn
Email: sundogs@hotmail.com
To: Robyn
Subject: PS: David M
Message:
To all again,
I forgot to mention that I know very few details and didn't relay them because I think that is not my call. I thought the main fact was enough.
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Tues, Jan 05, 1999 at 07:19:35 (EST)
From: Gail
Email: None
To: Robyn
Subject: David M
Message:
This is very sad news.
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Date: Tues, Jan 05, 1999 at 08:13:06 (EST)
From: Bobby
Email: None
To: Robyn
Subject: David M
Message:
Thanks Robin, that's a hard one.
Please send my love and best wishes to David.
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Date: Tues, Jan 05, 1999 at 09:33:09 (EST)
From: Robyn
Email: sundogs@hotmail.com
To: Bobby
Subject: to Bobby
Message:
Dear Bobby,
I'd love to hear from you if you can.
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Tues, Jan 05, 1999 at 08:33:05 (EST)
From: Sir David
Email: None
To: Robyn
Subject: David M
Message:
David M, you must be devastated. It's a bitter blow and I know how I would feel if I was in your place. Let's hope we can help one another at this sad time. I will say a prayer for you and your daughter.
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Date: Tues, Jan 05, 1999 at 10:15:55 (EST)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Robyn
Subject: David M
Message:
David,

I'm sorry about the terrible loss of your daughter. I wish you all the strength you need to get through this.

Best wishes,
Jerry
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Date: Tues, Jan 05, 1999 at 18:38:33 (EST)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: david m
Subject: David M
Message:
dear david m -
I am so sorry that this has happened. I hope that you and your family are getting though it - it must be very hard for you. We are here for you if you need us.
Love,
Katie

P.S. for anyone that knows david m and would like to correspond with him personally- his e-mail address is Whaler32@aol.com.
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Date: Tues, Jan 05, 1999 at 23:15:39 (EST)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: David M
Subject: David M
Message:
You seem like the sweetest guy in the world, I am so sorry to hear this news. You and your family are in my prayers tonight.
Sincerely,
Helen
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Date: Tues, Jan 05, 1999 at 01:16:57 (EST)
From: PT's Mom
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: My baby does the hanky panky.
Message:
Oh my god, typing is hard.
I will do my best.
When your pushing 80, that's exercise enough!
Anyone who can do at 80 what they did at 20 wasn't doing
much at 20. At my age, all the numbers in my black book are
doctors numbers!
I started a 'good luck' policy by sending donations to fundraising
groups that raise money for diseases I amost likely to get.
I figure if I give, god will protect me from that particular ailment. So, when a letter arrived from the Alzhimers Foundation,
I got out my checkbook to write a check but it was a thank you
note for the $20 I gave two weeks ago!
Just yesterday I was trying to follow a recipe and it said
'separate two eggs' and I was confused because it didn't say
how far!

But there some things I remember very well, and one is that
honesty is absolutely essential and a barometer of a
person's character.
Only by being on the level can you climb to the highest place.
A rich man ought to be an honest man, for he would be a double
knave to cheat men when he had no need of it.
It is better to be short of cash than short of character.

My PT was at first just a zealous believer, innocent and
frankly, confused. But, NOT a liar.
There was a saying in my day, 'The best way to attain wisdom
is to assume you don't already possess it.'
My PT was filled to the brim with the unfortunate 'wisdom'
that the lord god almighty was his guru maharaj ji.

In this world there are only two ways of raising one's self:
by one's own industry, or by the weakness of others.
My PT, weakened by faith in something untrue, has born the
fruit of pathological lying in the face of truth.
Where the lie looks real and the truth is painted as a lie.
It is the saddest state of a human.

He who considers himself a paragon of wisdom is sure to commit
some superlatively stupid acts. Much like the guru maharaj ji
when he disowned his mother for 18 years till her death.
Some men are born fools but others become so by practice.

Perhaps the reason there is no fool like an old fool is that
even that, too, takes practise.

The vicious side effects of playing god are to be seen in my PT.
The heavenly father sometimes has to knock down our props to
restore our sanity
Nice to meet you all.
I need to rest my fingers.
What is doubly sad is that my PT has faith, and is
rewarded for that, but the false teacher has stolen
that part, that belongs to god, and has ruined PT's life as
a result.
PT says, 'I enjoy posting here', enjoys fasehood and lying,
denial and deciet.
The best way to prove godliness, is by god-likeness.
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Date: Tues, Jan 05, 1999 at 16:31:51 (EST)
From: Passing thru
Email: None
To: PT's Mom
Subject: Dear Mom
Message:
Dear Mom,
I really do enjoy posting here, but,you're right, I don't enjoy the falsehood and lying, the denial and deceit.
But hey, its your web site you can behave as you like.
Its just that when some one tells a real whopper I just can't resist pointing it out.
Your son
PT
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Date: Tues, Jan 05, 1999 at 22:55:37 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Passing thru
Subject: 'real life' communication
Message:
Ever wonder, PT, what would happen if we ever met in person or even on the phone?

CD called me New Year's eve and we talked for about 15 minutes. It was a pleasant enough chat. He seems likeable and fairly intelligent. I'm sure he'd say the same about me. But, I've got to tell you, this was the very first time in more than two years that I've ever had a responsive discussion with him. Ever.

Sure, we didn't really get into the heart of any of the perennial issues here. We nibbled around the edges. It was his nickel, it was New Year's and his girlfriend was waiting to go out as was mine. We agreed to not try to resolve anything we haven't otherwise been able to all this time. Still, we talk a bit about m, a bit about the site, a bit about truth and a bit about music, San Diego and the like. We also talked about HOW Chris see's his own involvement here and why many of us have gotten so exasperated with him.

The thing is, though, we TALKED about all this. I didn't feel the slightest frustration or disrespect for Chris. It was a conversation that never developed as fully as it might but, even as it was, it was more than I've ever seen Chris undertake with anyone. He was less guarded and presented, quite frankly, like a human being for a change. Not just some sort of bizzarro cult happy face.

And why? To me the answer's pretty apparent: the medium. We were TALKING to each other.

Here's an example. Chris said then, as he has many times here, that he doesn't put too much stock in words due to their 'ambiguous' nature ('vague'?). This time, though, I was able to respond immediately and point out that so long as there's some candour and good faith, a conversant can always hear where the other's going with whatever's been said and correct him when it becomes clear, as it invariably does, that there's been some sort of misunderstanding. That's just life and, as far as I know, this process works. People CAN talk with one another and communicate all sorts of things. Words work. Maybe not with a single expression but with the endless feedback possibilities of an honest discussion, they work.

But my point is I was able to say all that to Chris and he was able to immediately process my point and reply. In fact, he agreed. For once, after all this time, I actually heard Chris tell someone (me, in fact) 'yeah, good point. I never thought of it that way.' Sorry, call me petty but that kind of stuff is encouraging. Especially when you think you might be talking with someone hiding behind an impenetrable smiley face.

I can only surmise that Chris made that small concession and, more importantly, actually addressed what I was saying without glancing off in some oblique or superficial way because of the spontaneity and RELATIVE closeness of the medium. Here, unfortunately, Chris' track record is something else. Endless avoidance and obfuscation. Yeah, that's irritating. Who'd say otherwise?

Now what, you ask, does this have to do with you? YOU'RE not like CD! God forbid, right? You discuss matters of all shapes and sizes, directly, quickly (although I noted that you did ignore a few posts from me. Whatever.).

Your problem, though, PT, is that you're playing at being an incredible asshole here. I don't think you're really like that in real life. I couldn't imagine someone surviving in any sort of community of friends acting like you do and I'm assuming until I know otherwise that you actually have a few friends. But, like I say, I think you're just playing here. If we ever talked in person you could never sustain the unreasonable front you've entertained us with here from time to time.

Take the m quote issue. Weren't you in on that with Mel? Or was that Another Premie? Shit, I can't remember. But whether you were part of that play or not, it's a perfect example of the same foolishness you grace us with. No reasonable person in the world should, would or ever could refute the fact that m passed himself off as divine. Yet, here we had a couple of premies pretending to do just that. I'm telling you that in 'real life' it's a lot harder to maintain such fakery, don't you think?

So, you can say whatever you want. You could simply decide that you're never going to give an inch and will, for whatever reason, simply put people here through their paces. Get their blood pressure up or something. Like the Nazi's marching through Skokie, Illinois (a large community of concentration camp survivors), so long as you don't have to actually get down to the human level you can play whatever games you want.

And, I have to admit, just like it's hard to avoid flaring up at CD's refusal to come here as a full human being, it's hard to keep our emotions in check regarding you too. Sure, no one knows who you are and you're probably having the time of your life doing this but remember, PT, you are, at heart, a VERY small person. I wonder, did Maharaji shrink you by chance? Is that what happened?

Well, no point repeating myself. I just have to remember to keep my emotions in check, if I can, and not take you seriously. Yet I'm serious when I say that your role here, should you decide to keep playing it, is INVALUABLE. I might pay the price of feeling a little anger at first when I see the stupid, stupid, STUPID things you have to say but, after a few moments, I remind myself how salutory your example is of so-called 'spirituality'. m's spiritualty in particular.

Love,

Jim
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Date: Tues, Jan 05, 1999 at 23:36:10 (EST)
From: Passing thru
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Thank you Jim
Message:
Dear Jim,
Yes, what would it be like to meet in person?
I suspect that, like me, you don't take all this too seriously.
You've probably got a life like mine.
I'm married, I have a 21 year old son, some wonderful friends, a great job etc etc.
The only real difference is probably that I love the effect that practising Knowledge creates in my life.
As for the forum, well I just can't resist having a bit of fun.
PT
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Date: Wed, Jan 06, 1999 at 08:07:55 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Passing thru
Subject: Not at all
Message:

I suspect that, like me, you don't take all this too seriously.


PT,

Whatever gave you that idea? I take this at least seriously enough to be able to discuss some of the nastier aspects of m's impact, then and now, sincerely.

Really, man, I can't believe you'd say this. To think that you'd lurk, lurk, lurk and then finally chime in when people start talking about friends that took their own lives, only to try to throw them off with some absurdly callous and unrealistic arguments only to later say you weren't really serious.....

I'm disgusted, quite frankly. You should be ashamed of yourself.

You've probably got a life like mine.
I'm married, I have a 21 year old son, some wonderful friends, a great job etc etc.


If 'like yours' means I've got one, yeah, I guess you're right. I don't have my own son but I'm close with both my girlfriends' kids, Cam, 19, and Becky, 21. Maybe that's why I ask premies who I think are just playing us for fools here to take the 'kid challenge'. Here, I'll ask you. I dare you to show your son the threads you've been involved with here. Show HIM how you've argued. Better yet, put him in touch with me and I'll give him the tour. No unfair commentary, just a look at his own father's way of dealing with these issues. Game?

The only real difference is probably that I love the effect that practising Knowledge creates in my life.

That's ONE difference. How this attitude of yours makes you treat facts and other people is another. That's obvious.

As for the forum, well I just can't resist having a bit of fun.

Cute.
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Date: Wed, Jan 06, 1999 at 11:25:38 (EST)
From: VP
Email: None
To: Passin' Thru
Subject: Having fun?
Message:
When you said you didn't care about the feelings of a suicide victim's family, were you having fun?
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Date: Wed, Jan 06, 1999 at 16:15:00 (EST)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: VP
Subject: Nah, just detached....
Message:
VP: You know PT's just detached.....

You know:

doesn't care about the pain of others,
unconcerned about the pain of others,
indifferent to the pain of others,
insensitive to the pain of others,

detached.... OR IS IT APATHETIC (or just pathetic)
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Date: Wed, Jan 06, 1999 at 17:30:33 (EST)
From: VP
Email: None
To: Mike
Subject: detatched, apathetic, pathetic
Message:
or sociopathic? Like the Master...
Thanks for clearing that up, Mike.
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Date: Thurs, Jan 07, 1999 at 00:20:16 (EST)
From: Passing thru
Email: None
To: Mike
Subject: Take care Mike....
Message:
Dear Mike,
Like so many of the posters here, you don't pay attention and therefore you don't understand and because you don't understand you make the same mistakes over and over again.
And then you have to find someone to blame.
PT
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Date: Thurs, Jan 07, 1999 at 10:32:50 (EST)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Passing thru
Subject: What mistakes?
Message:
PT: BE SPECIFIC... To which mistakes do you refer? I see NO mistake in my analysis of your basic mindset. I see no caring, I see no effort to care, in anything that you have said to ANYONE at this site. Your callous remarks concerning the suicide issue are more than ample proof of your apathy. So where's my mistake? Especially interested in the mistake that I keep repeating, BTW!
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Date: Thurs, Jan 07, 1999 at 00:15:54 (EST)
From: Passing thru
Email: None
To: VP
Subject: Having truth VP?
Message:
Dear VP,
I think what I said was, I don't care what they think.
There is a difference.
PT
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Date: Thurs, Jan 07, 1999 at 10:30:05 (EST)
From: VP
Email: None
To: Passing thru
Subject: Having truth VP?
Message:
I just found this--after I posted a new thread to you above.
You are right.
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Date: Thurs, Jan 07, 1999 at 00:12:48 (EST)
From: Passing thru
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Lighten up Jim..
Message:
Dear Jim,
This web site is just one of thousands of 'anti' sites on the web.
Anti dancing, anti breastfeeding, anti rock and roll, anti black, anti jew, anti arab, anti anything you can think of.
They have nothing in common except the desire to get together and bitch.
That you are anti someone who teaches a way of discovering what is happening within, that tens of thousands of people enjoy everyday, is hardly a serious issue.
Accept that Knowledge is unable to overcome death, stupidity and laziness and move on to something that does.
PT
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Date: Thurs, Jan 07, 1999 at 05:12:53 (EST)
From: Nimrod
Email: None
To: Pissing thru
Subject: You're living proof, man.
Message:
I believe I can safely say that I've come to
stupidity and laziness...>, just as you put it, PT.
In fact after getting to know you a little, PT, I have no more doubts.
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Date: Thurs, Jan 07, 1999 at 05:50:19 (EST)
From: Nimrod
Email: None
To: Pissing thru
Subject: You're living proof...correct.
Message:
Man, will I ever be previewing my posts fom now on!Last post was supposed to read as follows;

' I believe that I've come to accept that Knowledge cannot overcome 'death, stupidity, and laziness', just as you put it, PT.
In fact, after getting to know you a little,PT, I have no more doubts.'

But perhaps I INDEED have come to stupidity and laziness myself, just in talking to you, PT.
You're hard to take man, but I guess you know that.
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Date: Thurs, Jan 07, 1999 at 07:14:46 (EST)
From: spread THIS knowledge
Email: None
To: Passing thru
Subject: Lighten up Jim..
Message:
Maybe we can make you feel that it is a serious issue.
The impact of this site can be broadened.
And will be.
We are not lazy OR stupid.
Thanks for the inspiration.
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Date: Wed, Jan 06, 1999 at 16:43:24 (EST)
From: eb
Email: None
To: Passing thru
Subject: Thank you Jim
Message:
PT wrote to Jim:
I suspect that, like me, you don't take all this too seriously.

You must be joking, PT. I come here for entertainment and support, but Jim's on a Mission.

eb
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Date: Thurs, Jan 07, 1999 at 00:23:41 (EST)
From: Passing thru
Email: None
To: eb
Subject: Thank you eb
Message:
Dear eb,
Thankyou for the correction.
PT
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Date: Mon, Jan 04, 1999 at 15:57:03 (EST)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: new quote for a new year
Message:
Overheard on X Files last night:
Mulder to a turbaned cult guy: 'For a holy man, you've got quite
a knack for pissing people off'

way to go fox ....
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Date: Mon, Jan 04, 1999 at 17:35:22 (EST)
From: chr
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: To Nimrod,dv and others
Message:
Talking about pissing people off-when I was around M off and on in the late 70s,early 80s the most difficult aspect was the unpredictability of his moods.One day he could be light and jovial,the next,angry,sullen and irritable.You never quite knew whether you had pleased him or inconvenienced him.Consequently everyone always felt like they were walking on eggshells around him.It was like the codependent relationship from hell.Most of us thought that he was doing this for us-confronting our minds and egos.In hindsight,he was probably just being an egomaniacal prima donna.My question to those who have been around him more recently is: has he changed at all since those strange days of the 707?Has he grown or learnt anything about dealing with others?Is it still the same for those around him?
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Date: Tues, Jan 05, 1999 at 01:00:45 (EST)
From: Premmey
Email: None
To: chr
Subject: To Nimrod,dv and others
Message:
I heard one 'devotee,' who spent a lot of time around the former Guru Mahararj Ji, the former Lord of the Universe, describe Maharaji's personality as 'cancerous.' Somehow I didn't think that was a compliment.
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Date: Tues, Jan 05, 1999 at 19:07:11 (EST)
From: Nimrod
Email: None
To: Premmey & chr
Subject: To Nimrod,dv and others
Message:
'Cancerous' personality and 'egomaniacal prima donna'Wow!!
Has M changed recently?
I suppose the people to ask ,would be the ones who are around him on a regular basis.When I was at the res for the Amtext party of May 96,the setting was very much 'controlled' and M was on his best behavior...almost exquisitely charming.He really can't give anybody any crap there, because thre's so much dissension and bitterness that goes on amongst Amtext premies, that at these gatherings, M knows he has to play the role of 'beautiful master'
the one who makes all the headfuckery worthwhile.He wants his premie bookbuyers to feel that they are special to him,important, and loved by him.That way they'll be ready for another round of headfuckery, by Chuck Nathan, the Brogans, and the Amtext office.
But judging from statements he has made in his talks around the world recently, I don't really see any significant change.
How are these for a couple of 'cancerous' statements coming from our beloved 'egomaniacal prima donna '
A few years back I heard M say the following in a video:
'people sometimes come to me and they complain that people are playing with their heads.All I can say is, maybe people are playing with your head because its so big! Maybe, if you didn't have such a big head, people wouldn't play with it!!'
Or the famous 'priciples' quote from just last May98:
'You want to hold on to your priciples? I'll tell you what's going to happen.Your ship's going to sink! You want to hold on to your principles? I'll tell you what's going to happen.You're going to die!!'
If this represents change on M's part, then its the type of change of which we can truly say as the French do:
'plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose'
Translation: the more things change, the more they stay the same.
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Date: Wed, Jan 06, 1999 at 00:01:45 (EST)
From: dv
Email: None
To: Nimrod
Subject: To Nimrod,dv and others
Message:
Go to a program, do service, observe the pams- they are a direct reflection of his attitude- some suceeding more than others.
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Date: Thurs, Jan 07, 1999 at 00:07:12 (EST)
From: Gail
Email: None
To: dv
Subject: Is Michael Paragon still
Message:
around? Karen Stone? Elliot Brye? Cathy Siddik?
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Date: Thurs, Jan 07, 1999 at 15:48:08 (EST)
From: dv
Email: None
To: Gail
Subject: Is Michael Paragon still
Message:
I think Michael is, I don't know about the rest, I left the residence scene around 1983. The last program I attended was Miami 1988, I didn't see Kathy there. I haven't tapped into the graprvine in so long I don't know who has gone to hell and who is still ?
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Date: Tues, Jan 05, 1999 at 12:24:35 (EST)
From: dv
Email: None
To: chr
Subject: To Nimrod,dv and others
Message:
He lambasted me once for loading one of his chairs on to a truck- said: 'Count on some spacey premie to lose my chair.' Steve Braband later come out and told me I had loaded the correct chair. I guess after a while you get used to it...
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Date: Tues, Jan 05, 1999 at 17:50:55 (EST)
From: chr
Email: None
To: dv
Subject: To Nimrod,dv and others
Message:
Well,at least he spoke to you.Most of the time he just stared right past me.I mean,what was I supposed to do-fold my hands in supplication?stare back?say hi? say pranam Maharaji?One time I actually tried to strike up a conversation,but he turned around and walked the other way. I got to help him with Hansi with a kite once and he almost seemed normal then.I know one guy who lived at one of M's residences for 10 years and apart from a wave every now and then he was virtually ignored.I saw him in 1991 after he had left and he was confused and angry.He had nothing after nearly 20 years of serving M.I had been through the whole thing a few years before so I was able to help him see that perhaps M wasnt who he said he was.This premie was blaming himself and one particular premie at the residence for all his problems.Actually the premie he was blaming was a real snake in the grass--he was also one of Ms favourites.It seems to me that the closer one got to M ,the more normal standards and ethics were thrown out the window.I

suspect thats why many of the big names around M havnt spoken
up-they all have things they did that they now feel very
uncomfortable about.Around M you get taken to a very weird
place.Apart from lack of sleep which stops you thinking
clearly,you end up viewing the world in a very
strange way.Basically you lose yourself and your integrity.
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Date: Tues, Jan 05, 1999 at 23:09:28 (EST)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: chr
Subject: To Nimrod,dv and others
Message:
This is a very interesting thread and very creepy stuff to think about. It frightens me to think about the total de-railment of a human life. Remember how Maharaji used to go on about how we are the 'crown of creation' and how realizing knowledge is the whole purpose of this human life?

I wish those 'reform' premies (in contrast with the 'orthodox premies' of yesteryear) who keep a distance between themselves and GM could read what those of you who have had a lot of contact with him have to say. Thanks for providing those glimpses into the weird and twisted lives of PAMS and of the GUru himself.
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Date: Wed, Jan 06, 1999 at 00:07:57 (EST)
From: dv
Email: None
To: Helen
Subject: To Nimrod,dv and others
Message:
Yeah, it's rather traumatic when the Lord of The Universe acts like
your boss.
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Date: Mon, Jan 04, 1999 at 00:04:33 (EST)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Happy Birthday, Helen!!
Message:
Happy birthday, Helen! (January 4, for all in different time zones.) Thanks so much for all your contributions to the forum - you have really given a lot. I hope you have a wonderful birthday, and much happiness and good health in the coming year, and, of course, many happy returns!
Lots of love,
Katie
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Date: Mon, Jan 04, 1999 at 00:16:15 (EST)
From: shp
Email: None
To: Helen
Subject: Happy Birthday, Helen!!
Message:
It is 12:07 am, so it is officially your birthday.
Happy Birthday, Helen!
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Date: Mon, Jan 04, 1999 at 18:35:14 (EST)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: shp
Subject: Happy Birthday, Helen!!
Message:
Have you been burning the midnight oil, shp. Just watch out for that Danish likker you like, it makes ya feisty, brother
(;
I'm having me a great b'day with the many blessings in my life. Hope you're well, I really do care about you even though I get a little ornery with ya.
Love,
Helen
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Date: Mon, Jan 04, 1999 at 01:00:07 (EST)
From: Mickey the Pharisee
Email: None
To: Helen
Subject: Happy Birthday, Helen!!
Message:
Happy Birthday Helen, may the coming year be one of happiness for you and your family. Thanks for your posts on this site and your insights.
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Date: Mon, Jan 04, 1999 at 18:32:00 (EST)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Mickey the Pharisee
Subject: Happy Birthday, Helen!!
Message:
Thank you, Mickey, I respect you very much, and one day I would like to talk about theology with you. Congrats on your new position, it sounds like it suits you and moreover, it's what you wanted.

Sincerely,
Helen
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Date: Mon, Jan 04, 1999 at 02:17:43 (EST)
From: peter
Email: None
To: helen
Subject: Happy Birthday, Helen!!
Message:
Glad you're here
and made it through another year.

You keep this place hoppin',
now that's some high cotton.

Forward hey!

Love,
Peter
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Date: Mon, Jan 04, 1999 at 18:29:51 (EST)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: peter
Subject: Happy Birthday, Helen!!
Message:
Boy, I'm having trouble posting properly tonight. I just wrote you a long post and it disappeared. Must be those doobies I smoked after reading all the depressive posts about death below. Ha ha
When you wrote about the cotton being high, I immediately thought of the song 'SUmmertime' by George Gershwin...
'fish are jumpin', and the cotton is high'. That song is on the tape I made for you & Katie.

Hey are you the Minnesota guy who was getting fresh with Minnesota housewife in a post below?

here's to many more years for all of us, discovering our own truths, and laughing, crying, having fun, disagreeing and generally living (and hopefully enjoying) our lives

Love,
Helen
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Date: Mon, Jan 04, 1999 at 05:00:10 (EST)
From: Sir David
Email: David.Studio57@btinternet.com
To: Katie
Subject: Happy Birthday, Helen!!
Message:
Yep, have a good birthday you old Capricornian goat you. It's always good to have another unashamed believer in the Almighty on the forum. By the way, I believe you are a teacher. I'm starting a bit of (unpaid) amateur teaching this week at my children's local school so I might require a few hints and tips from from you.
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Date: Mon, Jan 04, 1999 at 06:19:34 (EST)
From: TD
Email: None
To: Helen
Subject: Happy Birthday, Helen!!
Message:
Have a great one Helen! Thanks for all your luscious (had to think of a new word) posting and associated energy and attitude over the past few months!

love, TD
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Date: Mon, Jan 04, 1999 at 06:45:54 (EST)
From: TD
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: And a belated HB to JW too!
Message:
And ditto to you to JW. Sorry I missed it, but must concur with all the other luscious compliments exes bestowed on you in the inactive index!

Hope it was tres grand!

love, TD
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Date: Mon, Jan 04, 1999 at 18:02:57 (EST)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: TD
Subject: Happy Birthday, Helen!!
Message:
Thanks TD, you're pretty luscious yourself, you redheaded pistol you. I'm looking forward to reading more of your passionate posts.
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Date: Mon, Jan 04, 1999 at 18:18:09 (EST)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Sir David
Subject: Happy Birthday, Helen!!
Message:
I just wrote you a long post & it disappeared!! Whaaa!!

Basically what it said was to go to your child's school wearing your cheesehat and lance and tell them a story about the Vikings. They will love you!!

Yes, I still believe that the spiritual side of life is very important. No matter what, I am immensely grateful to be alive, the alternative is to be dead, so I'm very grateful to still be here. I have really good friends, a husband I adore, a bright and happy kid, and food on the table and a roof over our heads. I have music, good books, and a strong body (yes, arthritic and all). So I have nothing to complain about, my eyes can see, my legs can walk, I have a job, etc.

SO what can I say but life is GOOD, man, and I'm one lucky punk.

I think you're grander than grand by the way

Love,
Helen
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Date: Mon, Jan 04, 1999 at 07:46:13 (EST)
From: Robyn
Email: sundogs@hotmail.com
To: Katie
Subject: Happy Birthday, Helen!!
Message:
Dear Helen,
I hope you have a wonderful day to mark your birthday! It has been good getting to know you. I look forward to getting to know you more in the year to come.
Love ya,
Robyn
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Date: Mon, Jan 04, 1999 at 18:00:33 (EST)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Robyn
Subject: Happy Birthday, Helen!!
Message:
Thank you, Robyn. I am actually having a great birthday so far. It has been great getting to know you better too. Maybe we can have an east coast ex-premie party and we can all meet sometime.

It's so cold here tonight, I know you are freezing your tuchas off up there
Love,
Helen
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Date: Mon, Jan 04, 1999 at 09:56:33 (EST)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: Happy Birthday, Helen!!
Message:
Happy birthday, Helen. It's been a pleasure meeting you here on the forum. I look forward to hearing more from you.

Wishing you and your's the happiest,
Jerry
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Date: Mon, Jan 04, 1999 at 17:52:30 (EST)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: Happy Birthday, Helen!!
Message:
Jerry,
Soon as I get to the post office I'll be mailing you that tape. Jeez, do you see a pattern of procastination here????

I'm having a great b'day, or at least I WAS 'til all this talk of oblivion and death.sniff sniff. Oh well, guess I'll just forget about it and go have a manicure and a facial and get me a new outfit at the mall, like you know, whatever!!

Love ,
Helen
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Date: Tues, Jan 05, 1999 at 10:47:21 (EST)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Helen
Subject: I'm sorry, Helen
Message:
Here I was trying to be Mister Funny Guy with my wry sense of humor and all I did was bum you out on your birthday, (boo-hoo, boo-hoo). Well, I hope you went right out and gratified yourself to your hearts content and forgot about stupid me and my wretched sense of humor. But since your birthday's past, let me just say that.... I REALLY THINK BIRTHDAYS SUCK! (hee heee hee)...
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Date: Mon, Jan 04, 1999 at 10:10:19 (EST)
From: John
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: Happy Birthday, Helen!!
Message:
So this is cause for celebration?! One year closer to the final disappearing act that we all must perform?
Birthdays are such a recurring bummer, I mean they celebrate our own ego-ness, our own specific limited existence which is of course meaningless and pointless and filled with ego dreams of greatness doomed for failure in the dark kerouacian night of the st. john of the cross soul.
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Date: Mon, Jan 04, 1999 at 11:06:55 (EST)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: John
Subject: Hey, Mr. Cheerful
Message:
I feel the same way. What is a birthday really but just another step closer to oblivion?

You run and you run
to catch up with the sun,
but it's sinking.
Shorter of breath
and one day closer to death


Who needs them?
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Date: Mon, Jan 04, 1999 at 12:22:21 (EST)
From: Gail
Email: None
To: Helen
Subject: Hapyy Birthday!
Message:
Have a good one! I've got to run back to school. I'm glad to have something to do again.
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Date: Mon, Jan 04, 1999 at 13:34:35 (EST)
From: RT
Email: ommm
To: Helen of Joy
Subject: Happy Birthday!? > Your gift:
Message:
In honor of your contribution to the furtherment of Understanding, Wisdom and Common Sense, you are hereby awarded this Glow-In-The-Dark Light T shirt from Ex-Premies.org.

Made in Amaroo by Rapper Baptists, it is 100% BeCotten by the Virgin Fleece. It's got down under! Both sides of the garment are visible when worn. The front reads in 3' high blue Sansrit font:

'I SPENT YEARS IN A CULT AND
ALL I HAVE TO SHOW FOR IT IS
THIS VIBRATION!'

the back reads:

'JUST SAY KNOW'

Happy Birthday, Helen of Joy! Your gift will arrive sometime in the next millennium.

RT

PS: what size are you?
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Date: Mon, Jan 04, 1999 at 17:27:06 (EST)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: RT
Subject: Happy Birthday!? > Your gift:
Message:
Are you 'having me on' there big fellow? 'Cause I would proudly wear the shirt!!! And I would answer people's questions about it!! I think a lot of us here would!! Thanks for the laughs.
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Date: Mon, Jan 04, 1999 at 18:18:14 (EST)
From: RT
Email: OMMM
To: Helen
Subject: Happy Birthday! Yep. Your gift
Message:
A handsome simulfax copy of your t shirt has been sent to Elan Vital for registration. Once the webmaster sees it, you may indeed receive a shirt. Or a shirk.

...really, once KT/Brain sees it we will start production. One at a time, just like Speading Knowledge.

RT
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Date: Mon, Jan 04, 1999 at 17:46:56 (EST)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Gail
Subject: Hapyy Birthday!
Message:
Gail, someday I want to hear more about your teaching career. Girl, I admire teachers so much. I kinda burned out on it.

What grade do you teach? How the hell do you keep it up--I think it's a demanding profession (tho very fulfilling) How the hell did you teach and also follow GM around to festivals??

Tell all.

Love,
Helen
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Date: Mon, Jan 04, 1999 at 14:09:17 (EST)
From: eb
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: My but aren't we the happy lot
Message:
Personally, I like the 'one year closer to oblivion' celebration. I also read the obituaries first thing every morning.
Happy birthday Helen.
And a belated happy birthday to JW.
With love,
eb
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Date: Mon, Jan 04, 1999 at 17:43:26 (EST)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: eb
Subject: My but aren't we the happy lot
Message:
Thanks eb. I'm still waiting to hear more about getting in touch with my inner slut. My husband's waiting too (ha ha)

I swear y'all with your oblivion talk is seriously getting me depressed. Man. I think I'll smoke me a couple a doobies now and listen to old Joni Mitchell records...

NOT!!!

Love,
Hellion
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Date: Mon, Jan 04, 1999 at 18:50:13 (EST)
From: eb
Email: None
To: Helen
Subject: I was almost finished...
Message:
but it's easy to sidetrack a slut. The healing process is much longer than I thought it would be... even longer than getting over being hoodwinked by a gooroo. Excuse me while I remove the jewel from my lotus.
Namaste,
eb
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Date: Wed, Jan 06, 1999 at 15:52:21 (EST)
From: VP
Email: None
To: eb
Subject: eb, you crack me up-(nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Mon, Jan 04, 1999 at 17:22:31 (EST)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: John
Subject: Happy Birthday, Helen!!
Message:
Ha HA! We're all dust in the wind, man!
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Date: Mon, Jan 04, 1999 at 14:00:56 (EST)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: Happy Birthday, Helen!!
Message:
Yes, I hope your day is wonderful. I am in la la land, NOT LA, just back to work after a wonderful vacation, so I'll make this short. Just wanted to add to what all have said, you came on strong and kept it up. Love your posts.
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Date: Mon, Jan 04, 1999 at 17:32:55 (EST)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: Happy Birthday, Helen!!
Message:
Thanks Selene. I meant to post you about singing 'Close to You' by the Carpenters to your grandson. HA HA, that cracked me up somehow. DId you ever see the film 'Parenthood' when Rick Moranis sings that to his wife (in front of the class she's teaching). It's pretty funny.

Thanks for your good wishes & supportive words. I am having a great b'day.

Love,
Helen
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Date: Mon, Jan 04, 1999 at 16:22:36 (EST)
From: VP
Email: None
To: Helen
Subject: Happy Birthday, Helen!!
Message:
Helen,
Happy Birthday. I hope that someone else will pick up all those small Barbie pieces for you today-(snicker)

I enjoy reading your posts,
VP
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Date: Mon, Jan 04, 1999 at 17:39:53 (EST)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: VP
Subject: Happy Birthday, Helen!!
Message:
Hey Veep, I always enjoy reading your posts, too. You are Mr. Clarity to me. (Probably 'cause you never received knowledge and had all that pressure to 'act enlightened at all times')

My daughter got 'Cool Looks Fashion Designer CD Rom' so she's designing Barbie clothes right & left. I swear I'm gonna start a punk band called 'Blame it on Barbie'

I never was into Barbie as a child but I edited an article about a study that showed that Barbie doll play actually enhances imaginative play more than baby doll play (say it 10 times fast). Perhaps this study was funded by Mattel...hmmm, I'll have to read the small print. Heck, anyway it's just my karma to have a girlie-girl type of daughter. I love her tons, though

Thanks for the b'day wishes,
Happy New Year to ya, Veep
Love,
Helen
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Date: Mon, Jan 04, 1999 at 18:41:40 (EST)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: Happy Birthday, Helen!!
Message:
To the Divine Ms. K
Thank you for your friendship and for all you do on the forum. I literally don't know HOW you do it all but you bring people together with your level-headedness and compassionate spirit.

I am meeting a dog named Misha (a rescued dog) this week. Wasn't that your name when you were ' GM's girl'? I figure this must be a sign or something (does God in all His glory care that one Helen Clark is very very concerned to have a new doggie? Does God care about stuff like this)??? (;

Love,
helen
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Date: Tues, Jan 05, 1999 at 18:18:13 (EST)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Helen
Subject: Misha/Mischa
Message:
Hi Helen - Thank you for saying those nice things about me - sheesh, I'm blushing! I hope it was a good birthday. At least you're a bit younger than most of the people on this site!! Ha!

You're right that 'Mischa' was my hippie name. I used it from around 1970 till 1980, then it just got to be too much of a hassle. I had another friend who changed her name to 'Starshine' though, so it could have been worse :) Anyway, when I was called Mischa, at least 20 people told me that they had dogs named Misha! Another good reason to start using my real name again. I do think it's a good name for a dog or cat.

I hope this Misha-dog works out for you - sounds promising.

Lots of love,
Katie
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Date: Tues, Jan 05, 1999 at 22:41:04 (EST)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: Misha/Mischa
Message:
I knew someone named California Redwood Forest--no fooling. Did you know someone named Karma from the DC days?. She was another real good premie person I knew in DC. ALso, a guy named Hugh and a woman named Debbie. They all worked at that hippie restaurant called 'Yes' where I worked. There was a meditation hut there where everyone used to blow dope (everyone except those 'goody-goody' premies).

I used to be 'Nellie': from the time I was about 14 to about 25. A good name for a grandma or a horse. My Ananda Marga nun friend gave me the name 'Dusami' as my spiritual hindu groovy name but I was too self-conscious to change my name that way. Too radical, man.

Did a lot of folks on the forum get groovy hippie Hindu names when they became premies?? I'd get a kick out of hearing them. I'm meeting the doggie tomorrow. I'll em ya about it.
Love,
Helen
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Date: Tues, Jan 05, 1999 at 23:01:54 (EST)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Helen
Subject: Misha/Mischa
Message:
Hi Helen -
I knew Karma (if her last name was Dopp and she was blond. Her mother actually named her Karma, believe it or not). I also knew her brother (Willow's first daughter's father) and sister. Karma was a nice person - I didn't know her siblings that well. I knew several people named Debbie (it's our age, I think). Do you know her last name?

I think it's funny that you worked at 'Yes'. I used to go to that bookstore all the time - only after I was a premie. I liked it because they would let you sit in there for hours and read the books without having to buy them (prevented a lot of shoplifting). I don't think I ever ate there - our favorite vegetarian restaurant when we were premies was 'The Golden Temple', which was run by the Yogi Bhajan people.

Hope that you and the dog like each other :)
Love,
Katie
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Date: Mon, Jan 04, 1999 at 19:06:06 (EST)
From: JW
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: Happy Birthday, Helen!!
Message:
Yes, Helen, have a great birthday! Treat yourself to some Nanci Griffith music. Do something that REALLY helps you to ENJOYLIFE!! I think that's what this forum is all about. Celebrating the enjoyment of life that comes from life's simple enjoyments, that you get to see by clearing away the delusions of a destructive cult.

I really enjoy your posts Helen. So glad to have 'met' you in cyberspace.

Joe
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Date: Tues, Jan 05, 1999 at 00:08:44 (EST)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: Happy Birthday, Helen!!
Message:
Thanks so much Joe. I guess my birthday is officially over. I got half a dozen big fat roses from my husband and then he, our daughter and I played board games, and we got lots of em's and phone calls and ate birthday cake. And I am blissed out on the love of my friends and family and of course, my new cyber-community.
Discovering this website has been a 'healing' experience for me (that, like 'love' is another overused word, but it means to me--being restored to myself--and being able to be myself.)
Heard some good music by 'The Bitchin' Babes' today--have you heard them?
Thank you for your drive to be honest, it's an inspiration to me,
Helen
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Date: Mon, Jan 04, 1999 at 21:27:36 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: Happy Birthday, Helen!!
Message:
Helen,

I've really enjoyed hanging out with you here these past many months. Now, if you've noticed, there's a recent article on the neuroscintifiblulation cycles in the upper chamber quack quack quack right brain quack quack quack left brain that's REALLY fascinating. I might even read this one myself!

Really, glad to know you. Hope your day's a great one.

Jim
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Date: Tues, Jan 05, 1999 at 00:18:26 (EST)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Happy Birthday, Helen!!
Message:
That's so funny, Jim! I honestly don't know why I'm so resistant to this brain science stuff. I sent an em to Nigel trying to explain it but it probably sounded pretty lame. Some mumbo-jumbo about how women are generally more open to faith experiences and the cycles of nature and less likely to analyze things to death...then again, that could really be taken the wrong way and I'd hate for some man to tell me that women have less of a capacity to analyze things than men..Maybe I'm just a wee bit threatened by it 'cause I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE HELL Y'ALL ARE TALKING ABOUT!! Yeah, that's it!

I've really enjoyed getting to know you, too.

I guess it's not my birthday anymore, so the Queen for a Day routine has got to stop, but it sure is nice being pampered a bit (okay I'll admit it, I'm a total narcissist and I love all the attention).

Love,
Helen
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Date: Tues, Jan 05, 1999 at 03:12:05 (EST)
From: barney
Email: None
To: Helen
Subject: Happy Birthday, Helen!!
Message:
Yes, a very happy birthday to you.

I, too, enjoy your posts here. They are very right-on and honest.
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Date: Tues, Jan 05, 1999 at 13:02:05 (EST)
From: RT
Email: ommm
To: Helen
Subject: Happy Belated Birthday, Helen!
Message:
OK! let's start this ALL OVER and wish Helen a Belated Birthday!

RT, the wise guy
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Date: Tues, Jan 05, 1999 at 16:23:39 (EST)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: barney
Subject: Happy Birthday, Helen!!
Message:
Thanks, Barn. I enjoy your posts, too. I can tell you're having fun with the ex-devotees of the guru formerly known as Lord (I just call him $ for short)
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Date: Tues, Jan 05, 1999 at 19:52:40 (EST)
From: Runamok
Email: None
To: Helen
Subject: Happy Birthday, Helen!!
Message:
Happy birthday Helen and thanks for the good company..
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Date: Tues, Jan 05, 1999 at 22:45:19 (EST)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Runamok
Subject: Thanks Runamok
Message:
I'm kinda fried tonight from my PTA and Girl Scout responsibilities and general parenting duties. I want it to be my birthday again!!! (whine whine)

Oh well, life goes on--thanks for the good wishes!! I really enjoy your posts (tho I sure do have to put on my thinking cap when I read them)
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Date: Tues, Jan 05, 1999 at 23:27:05 (EST)
From: x
Email: None
To: Helen
Subject: Happy Birthday, Helen!!
Message:
I might as well join the party and wish you a happy birthday too, although a day late, but you know what they say about leaving the best for last, right?.
I enjoy your posts and I'm glad you take the time to contribute here.
Best Wishes, x
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Date: Tues, Jan 05, 1999 at 23:34:27 (EST)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: x
Subject: Paiit Labelle's 'X'
Message:
Thanks, the mysterious x. Time reading & posting here is time well-spent, IMO. Have you ever seen Patti Labelle sing 'I love my X' on Sesame Street? She literally is singing to the letter X.
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Date: Sun, Jan 03, 1999 at 15:42:08 (EST)
From: chr
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: christmas
Message:
Happy Christmas and New Year to everyone.Its been a couple of weeks since I browsed this site.I've been having a lovely,quiet Christmas and New Year break with my wife and children.
I realised that I have no recollection of christmas in the ashram.During the three years that I spent in the U.S.,I obviously didnt see my family,but I also have no idea what happened over the other six years.My parents came to see me once after christmas and I remember that they were very surprised that fully grown adults were sharing rooms.My father also kept asking why there were no books in the house.Its a wonder our brains didnt completely atrophy.
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Date: Sun, Jan 03, 1999 at 19:25:57 (EST)
From: Robyn
Email: sundogs@hotmail.com
To: chr
Subject: christmas
Message:
Dear Chr,
Happy New Year! Glad you had a nice holiday.
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Sun, Jan 03, 1999 at 23:26:45 (EST)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: chr
Subject: christmas
Message:
Merry Christmas and New Year's back at you, chr. Yes, like you, few memories are coherently stored in my brain from my knowledge days. I just buzzed around from event to event back then, Lansing, Milwaukee, Chicago, Detroit--they all were the same--one big blur. Your poor parents probably were worried sick about you when they visited you in the ashram. The 'no books' thing was one of the reasons I never could have lived in the ashram.
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Date: Tues, Jan 05, 1999 at 16:48:34 (EST)
From: Bobby
Email: None
To: Helen
Subject: books
Message:
Just for the record I lived in the ashram and had plenty of books. In fact, I had a special bookstore constructed by the Divine Carpenters as part of Divine Sales. I was in a so-called ashram in 72 (before the codified ashram rules) and in a more formal setting in New York City and Philadelphia in 73-74. My bookstore was a part of Divine Sales in New York. Got some really good donations that passed through the store and did a lot of reading, especially after the Millenium. I realize that the ashram subsequently went through a few revolutions and 'evolved' to places where the books would not be welcome.

I always was a big reader and I know premies that were readers then and are now. Of course I wasn't the great devotee that some others on this forum probably were. YMMV (your mileage may vary).
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Date: Tues, Jan 05, 1999 at 23:42:25 (EST)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Bobby
Subject: books
Message:
Well, that's good to know. Wasn't there little time though in the ashram to lay around and read? I mean the whole act of laying around and absorbing oneself in a a great book seems antithetical to satsang, service, and meditation.

I mean could you have told some sister/brother, who was telling you it was meditation time 'bite me, I'm reading a great book and want to lay around all day reading it.' Was your time your own? Did you have privacy? Questions from the outside from one of the 'uncloistered ones'. Reminds me of a great novel about nuns by Rumer Godden (about cloistered nuns)

How ya feeling, bobby?
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Date: Wed, Jan 06, 1999 at 07:22:25 (EST)
From: Bobby
Email: None
To: Helen
Subject: books
Message:
It was my service to work for Divine Sales. I kind of crafted me a little hole in the great Divine Sales works to continue what I loved -- reading. The ashram in those days was flush with all sorts of folks. We were all heady circa 73 with the rush of Millenium fever. We brought own individual trips, plus a lot of heart. I think perhaps the post-Millenium crash put a lot of that special headiness to an end. The community morphed.

I had my bookstore in the back of the Divine Sales on Second Avenue off St. Marks place, the heart of the East Village in New York City. Some really interesting characters and locals would come by. Some were regulars and we'd hang out together for a kind of enclave character cafe. I became good friends with a few.

For a short time, in early '74, I would have weekly special programs. I set up chairs in the back near my little office and had speakers come in. Once or twice it was satsang. Jagdeo came to speak once. Raymond and I spoke about astrology. A premie sister came to speak about women's issues. I really began getting into beat literature at that time.

In Spring of 74 I almost left the ashram. Then I transferred to Philadelphia. I actually left the ashram, moved into a premie house, and started working in a state mental hospital in late summer of '74. I saw my work with mentally ill as my real service (and I still do today).

------------------------------------------

These days are rather tough for me. I'm very hopeful about gene replacement therapy that may be available to me as part of a clinical trial. I don't want the radiation unless it seems I absolutely need to to stay alive. Cancer for me is complex and involves a great deal of emotional, mental and spiritual interaction. I try to deal with it and the other problems in my life as best I can. Thanks for asking.
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Date: Sat, Jan 02, 1999 at 22:26:33 (EST)
From: peter
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: excellent analysis, PT!
Message:
This is from one of PT's posts in the 'Premie Suicides' thread that is about to go under:

Is the proportion of suicides higher? [among premies] ...
If it is, I would suggest that it is for the same reason that hospitals are the most dangerous buildings in the world.
PT


Hospitals are dangerous because you get sicknesses when you go there that you would NOT have gotten if you didn't go there. And PT is suggesting that premie suicide rates were high for the same reason...they got sicknesses going to Maharaji that they wouldn't have gotten if they hadn't gone to him. Makes sense to me.

Bravo, PT! At last, a nice bit of clear thinking from you.
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Date: Sat, Jan 02, 1999 at 22:43:55 (EST)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: peter
Subject: excellent analysis, PT!
Message:
Both Katie & I couldn't figure out what that hospital thing was all about! Thanks for elucidating us. Peter! I have been trying to em you & Katie--is your mailbox full? My em's keep coming back. Maybe my brain is addled and I've been eming to the wrong address. Anyway, happy new year to you both.
Love,
Helen
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Date: Sun, Jan 03, 1999 at 00:24:14 (EST)
From: Katie
Email: petkat@mail.trib.net
To: Helen
Subject: email (ot)
Message:
Hiya Helen -
I'm getting mail, so can't figure out why yours is bouncing. [A common error is that people type 'petcat' instead of 'petkat' (understandable). Or it could just be our ISP.] Anyway, I'll try and em you tonight or tomorrow to see if it goes through.
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Date: Sun, Jan 03, 1999 at 04:07:08 (EST)
From: barney
Email: None
To: peter
Subject: PT understands the danger!
Message:
Bad example or a Freudian slip!
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Date: Sun, Jan 03, 1999 at 20:25:20 (EST)
From: Passing thru
Email: None
To: peter
Subject: Nice try Peter..
Message:
Dear Peter,
People go to hospitals because they are already sick.
People start looking for something because they already experience a feeling of loss.
Before I received Knowledge I was disatisfied and disillusioned, Had I not found Knowledge I have no doubt that my disillusionment would have become even more severe with possible tragic consequences.
PT
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Date: Sun, Jan 03, 1999 at 23:16:05 (EST)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Passing thru
Subject: Nice try Peter..
Message:
Well , good for you that you're so happy. If you're so damn happy why are you wasting your time hanging out here?
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Date: Sun, Jan 03, 1999 at 23:51:55 (EST)
From: Gail
Email: None
To: Helen
Subject: It's his serve-us or
Message:
he is trying to save our souls by needling us to submission. As Guru Corey Hart once said (and we should have listened), 'Never Surrender!'
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Date: Mon, Jan 04, 1999 at 04:10:02 (EST)
From: Passing thru
Email: None
To: Gail
Subject: Give in Gail
Message:
Dear Gail,
Keep your soul, I'm just irresistably drawn to argue against what I know to be untrue.
PT
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Date: Mon, Jan 04, 1999 at 04:06:43 (EST)
From: Passing thru
Email: None
To: Helen
Subject: Happy
Message:
Dear Helen,
I enjoy my correspondance with this site.
PT
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Date: Mon, Jan 04, 1999 at 09:59:37 (EST)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Passing thru
Subject: Happy
Message:
I enjoy my correspondance with this site.

You enjoy being called an asshole, being told to go fuck yourself, fuck you slimeball, and all the other pleasantries that come your way? You are one sick puppy, Pt.
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Date: Mon, Jan 04, 1999 at 01:02:54 (EST)
From: Nimrod
Email: None
To: Passing thru
Subject: Bad try PT
Message:
Now you began as follows:
< 'People go to hospitals because they are already sick.'>
Maybe,and yet then there are others who go to get checked out for problems that they don't really have, or at least problems that don't really require medical examination and/ or treatment.In the process they contact bacteria and other bad stuff that exists in hospitals, because there are so many actually sick people in these places.
Hospitals PT, are not good places to go to if you don't have to. Neither are cults.
And as one would want to avoid a bad doctor, one would want to avoid Maharaji.

Next,
< 'People start looking for something because they already experience a feeling of loss.'>
True for some... and yet then there are those who are looking for something out of a positive motivational energy. For these people it isn't really a sense of loss as it is a desire to find something more in their existence, to do something more with their existence that is driving them forward.
This statement of yours PT,is thus, quite obviously, nothing more than just a massive generalization, and rationalization on your part, to obfuscate this most tragic of all the issues and aspects associated with M and his cult.

And you concluded,
<'...Had I not found Knowledge, I have no doubt that my disillusionment would have become even more severe with possible tragic consquences.'>
You should know PT that this statement is the epitome of moronism.
We are not dealing here with 'possible tragic consequences,' but with the actual tragic consequences of people who had been part of M's cult and for some reason or another decided to end their lives.
And there are way too many.
Pray PT, that there will never be a valid, scientifically sound study of the PREMIE SUICIDE RATE, and pray too, that 60 Minutes don't get their hands on it.

Note to Peter: I thought your post was a gem and you deserved more than PT's excretive response which proves that he isn't just Passing thru, but Pissing thru.
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Date: Mon, Jan 04, 1999 at 01:21:04 (EST)
From: shp
Email: None
To: Nimrod
Subject: reply to Nimrod, et al
Message:
Hey Nimrod,

I just had to interject something here. First of all, let it be known that all premies are NOT alike, case in point.

Secondly, the thing about going into a hospital and all that verbage....let me just say that some people are highly SUSCEPTIBLE to whatever germs are flying in the air. I personally have an immune deficiency disorder in that I have no microhairs in my nose, ears, eyelashes, so anything in the air has a very easy time getting into me. I have to be very careful to steer clear of dirty air and 'particulate' (particles in the air). it's not easy in this world.

I daresay there are folks who have a similar disorder mentally or intellectually, and any concept can get into them just as easy. I am not addressing anything about Maharaji directly here on this post...I just can't stand analogies that don't connect!
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Date: Mon, Jan 04, 1999 at 03:11:27 (EST)
From: Nimrod
Email: None
To: shp
Subject: reply to shp , et al
Message:
shp,you said in closing,
'...I just can't stand analogies that don't connect!'
We know shp, there's lots you can't stand in this forum,but that's your problem.
The analogies do connect. It's your f**kbrain, premie obfuscation of this tragic issue that doesn't connect.In fact, I am now dissconnecting YOU shp.
Your mumbo jumbo is nothing more than a fart in a windstorm!
Now go fuck yourself, and enjoy your lies.
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Date: Mon, Jan 04, 1999 at 12:36:34 (EST)
From: shp
Email: None
To: Nimrod
Subject: beg your pardon?
Message:
Hospitals today are not healing centers.
They are generally for-profit corporations.
They rush people in and out, charging much.
The doctors, hospital orgs, and pharmceutical
companies make a killing.
They tried to rush my mother out of her bed
three days after her open heart surgery (aortic valve
replacement), telling her she was ok to go home.
She said she didn't feel right and they said sure
It's not going to feel 'right' for awhile since she
had open heart surgery. but she insisted it was some-
thing more. My brother, sister and I had to get really
heavy just to get the doctor to check her out.
Turns out she had collected a whole lot of liquid in
her chest cavity which had to be drained immediately.
And if they had sent her home without listening to her
and our feedback, she would have probably died. And this
happened at a so-called 'award-winning state-of-the-art'
facility. There is shit going on at hospitals far more
insidious than germs in the air.
This whole hospital analogy set me off. But if you want to
disconnect me, great.
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Date: Mon, Jan 04, 1999 at 17:58:08 (EST)
From: Nimrod
Email: None
To: shp
Subject: beg your pardon?
Message:
what do you mean 'beg your pardon?' I don't have to beg for any pardon here. I said what I meant, and I meant what I said. So beg for your own pardon, shp.
But I agree with your post. There is some awfull stuff goig on in hospitals, and I would add, there is some pretty awfull stuff going on in M's cult as well.
Hey shpey, this whole business of PREMIE SUICIDES really has you freaked out.
I can uderstand that.
If you find yourself about to sing a duet with your shincters, try 'Moon River' and go...
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Date: Mon, Jan 04, 1999 at 18:01:55 (EST)
From: Nimrod
Email: None
To: shp
Subject: correction, I meant...
Message:
... sphincters.
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Date: Mon, Jan 04, 1999 at 18:45:43 (EST)
From: shp
Email: None
To: Nimrod
Subject: squeeze out a tune
Message:
>what do you mean 'beg your pardon?' I don't have to beg for any pardon here. I said what I meant, and I meant what I said. So beg for your own pardon, shp.

This is a case of your simply not understanding the term. It was I who begged your pardon in the first place, because I did not realize what triggered your ire.

>Hey shpey, this whole business of PREMIE SUICIDES really has you freaked out. I can uderstand that.

What has my sphincter in a tizzy isn't the suicides...it's my own life on the line here, and those who I share information with. My condolences all around to those who have friends who did split.
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Date: Mon, Jan 04, 1999 at 22:49:48 (EST)
From: peter
Email: None
To: shp
Subject: hospital story & analogy
Message:
Hey, shp, that's terrible what happened to your mother. A similar thing happened to my father, went to the emergency room when he was having a heart attack and they told him he was just hyperventilating and sent him away. He drove back to work but when he got there he could hardly walk. Fortunately his doctor's office is right next to his work, the doctor called an ambulance and took him back to the same hospital. He had an angioplasty and he's doing well now.

You said that the hospital analogy set you off, and in an earlier post that the analogy didn't connect, but I think it does. Not only in terms of 'diseases' that you might catch in Maharaji's hospital, but also how individuals are treated there. I think your mother's story of being sent away by a careless and impersonal medical staff when she was very ill has strong parallels to some of the Maharaji stories I've seen here. I remember one about a person who wrote desperate letters to Maharaji asking him for the tiniest sign that he wanted them to live. The doctor was not in. Okay, maybe he was busy playing golf, but his staff was not in either. No response of any kind. I really can't see why not. This was one of the premies who killed themselves.

Be good to yourself.

Peter
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Date: Wed, Jan 06, 1999 at 01:35:41 (EST)
From: shp
Email: None
To: peter
Subject: hospital story & analogy
Message:
hey peter,

thanks for the thoughtful reply. i think that i didn't read completely and coherently the hospital scenario since i saw black and red (you know the feeling) when you get really pissed...anger
does rob you of clear thinking...so i am reasonably sure there must be some merit in the hospital analogy, from all the feedback...i haven't had as much time lately to participate here.
next time i open my mouth, i'll be sure to have read what i am commenting on more thoroughly.
more later maybe, it's late.
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Date: Mon, Jan 04, 1999 at 03:19:14 (EST)
From: barney
Email: None
To: shp
Subject: Playing Doctor
Message:
Secondly, the thing about going into a hospital and all that verbage....let me just say that some people are highly SUSCEPTIBLE to whatever germs are flying in the air

but the point is that in a hospital there is a real possibility of contracting some highly infectious disease unlike any that you would typically encounter in day to day life. And, of course, the reason is that people with such diseases are likely to be at the hospital.

Diseases like Ebola, TB, etc.

Or speaking of TB, that's what Sanitoriums were all about since this is an airborn highly contagious disease.

I think that PT's analogy is very fitting. Makes perfect sense. It should probably have its own page.

Anybody, remember the Replacements and their 'Take me to the hospital' or 'Red Light, Run It'?
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Date: Mon, Jan 04, 1999 at 04:34:30 (EST)
From: Dr Passing thru
Email: None
To: barney
Subject: This won't hurt...
Message:
Dear Barney,
Its been said many times on this site what a bunch of idiots premies are.
And that explains why so many wierd things went on.
So why do you blame Maharaji and Knowledge for what the idiots did.
No one could control them.
PT
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Date: Mon, Jan 04, 1999 at 12:05:27 (EST)
From: x
Email: None
To: Dr Passing thru
Subject: This won't hurt...
Message:
Passing thru, you've been passing thru for as long as I've been here. You sure are slow(pun intended).
Yes, premies are idiots, some more than others. Maharaji on the other hand isn't an idiot, he's just a concienceless(sp) savvy asian businessman. Excluding him from blame regarding any embarassing aspects of his cult, prior or present, is like excluding Hitler from blame for what the nazis did during WW11.
It is certainly true that Maharaji is more responsible for what his premies did,including commiting suicide, than the premie population at large, idiots or not.
You can be proud of yourself for being such an unquestioning zealot PT, no doubt there, right? gmj is the man, right.
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Date: Mon, Jan 04, 1999 at 14:34:48 (EST)
From: barney
Email: None
To: Dr Passing thru
Subject: I agree, you're right
Message:
PT,

I've been struggling with this issue of responsibility for years now and your argument has finally convinced me that Maharaji bares no responsibility whatsoever. He's blameless. His message is pure and simple. It was always the crazy premies who acted without his authority. A few rotten apples spoiling it all.

I've been taken in by these damn ex-premies and their darkness.

Thank you for setting me straight. I'll be going to my first video in a long time tonight.
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Date: Mon, Jan 04, 1999 at 16:13:31 (EST)
From: P
Email: None
To: barney
Subject: I agree, you're right
Message:
It's so true that GMJ is like a shining lotus flower, that grows in the muddy water and yet remains pure and virginal and chaste. How can that which is perfect and infinite be imperfect?

GMJ is perfect and without fault, he is pure and wondrous. He is my all, my everything, he is my mommy , my daddy, my brother , my friend, (but not my sister), he is everything to me.
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Date: Mon, Jan 04, 1999 at 17:12:37 (EST)
From: T
Email: None
To: P
Subject: I agree, you're right
Message:
He is my all, my everything, he is my mommy , my daddy, my brother , my friend, (but not my sister), he is everything to me.

He's not your sister? How can you say he's your all, then? He's my sister, my uncle, my cousin, and my dog. Top that.
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Date: Mon, Jan 04, 1999 at 17:15:48 (EST)
From: TP
Email: None
To: T
Subject: I agree, you're right
Message:
he's my house-mom, my plumber, my mechanic, my doorman....
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Date: Mon, Jan 04, 1999 at 16:36:34 (EST)
From: VP
Email: None
To: Dr Passing thru
Subject: This won't hurt...
Message:
So why do you blame Maharaji and Knowledge for what the idiots did. No one could control them.

Bwah ha ha ha ha ha ha!

Remember: An obedient slave obeys his master.

Happy fresh breath!
VP
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Date: Mon, Jan 04, 1999 at 17:09:48 (EST)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Dr Passing thru
Subject: This won't hurt...WRONG!
Message:
PT: There IS something that M could have done. First, he could have said, 'stop it!' Failing that, he could have said, 'you are no longer my premies!' Don't you think that THIS would have gotten the attention of those that thought he was GOD? It may be brow-beating, but it would have been highly effective, nonetheless! Even 'I' a mere mortal, know that!

Whether it was him, directly, or whether it was 'his' premies, it's the LEADER'S responsibility if something goes wrong and it's the LEADER'S responsibility to FIX IT when it does go wrong!

Sorry, M can't dodge THAT responsibility, especially when he presents himself as greater-than-god!
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Date: Tues, Jan 05, 1999 at 01:52:54 (EST)
From: Jethro
Email: None
To: Dr Passing thru
Subject: This won't hurt...
Message:
You sound just like Margaret Thatcher defending Pinoche.

You are REALLY sick
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Date: Wed, Jan 06, 1999 at 17:21:53 (EST)
From: Anne
Email: None
To: Dr Passing thru
Subject: This won't hurt...
Message:
Passing thru, your last line is one I find very fightening. 'So why do you blame m and k for what the idiots did. No one could control them.' Can premies now be controlled, or are we going to see them totally out of control? Have all the idiots finally left gm?
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Date: Mon, Jan 04, 1999 at 04:27:15 (EST)
From: Passing thru
Email: None
To: Nimrod
Subject: Stay well Nimrod
Message:
Dear Nimrod,
No wonder you misunderstood Maharaji and Knowledge.
The main opportunistic illness that people catch in hospitals is salmonella caught by patients who have had operations or with weak immune systems.
Healthy people visiting hospitals are as safe there as anywhere else.
As for whether people are motivated by a feeling of loss or a positive desire to experience more, the result is the same, a desire to leave a place that doesn't fully satisfy.
And finally you admit that some people end their lives 'for some reason or other'.
Exactly.
PT
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Date: Mon, Jan 04, 1999 at 17:37:33 (EST)
From: Nimrod
Email: None
To: Passing thru
Subject: Stay well Nimrod...&...
Message:
f**k you too PT.
For the record I'm quite confortable with my understanding of 'Maharaji' and 'Knowledge'.
I understand that Maharaji is a leader of a destructive cult. I understand that Knowledge is nothing more than the sizzle he sells people to entrap them in a life of enslavement to him, and to a belief system which is untrue, unnatural, and self-destructive.
The rest of your post is just so utterly moronic, it doesn't even merit a response.
Maharaji's slime is all over you PT.
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Date: Mon, Jan 04, 1999 at 22:22:47 (EST)
From: peter
Email: None
To: Passing thru
Subject: PT in Maharaji's hospital
Message:
Okay, PT, let’s review what you said:

1) You were sick
2) You went to Maharaji’s hospital and got well

Number one I can believe. I might even believe that the symptoms you had when you were admitted to M’s hospital have gone away. But you are NOT well. You are one sick puppy dog. And it’s pretty clear that you caught it in M’s hospital, since the symptoms are similar to those displayed by others who have received treatment there.

What are those symptoms? Not easily described but it involves suppressing what I would call ‘the spark of life.’ I’ve seen evidence that CD tries to suppress it, but he fails on a fairly regular basis. Orlando very nearly succeeds, but s/he’s let one or two sparks through. I’ve never seen that spark of life from you. Not once. Not one expression that rang true as having really come from you, a living human individual. It's all just parrot-talk and twisting and manipulation. In fact, I'm beginning to suspect that you're not a person at all but a program commissioned by Maharaji, kind of like that complaint generator that nigel found.

Most people here have LOTS of that spark. Some of the newly-released are sparking so much that they’re in danger of burning the place down. Gail comes to mind, lately. Bravo, Gail.
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Date: Mon, Jan 04, 1999 at 22:33:21 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: peter
Subject: In defence of PT (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Sat, Jan 02, 1999 at 19:50:40 (EST)
From: Larkin
Email: larkin@redcrow,demon.co.uk
To: Everyone
Subject: Love you all - Fill yer boots!
Message:
For those who made jai satch'anand
Their only daily greeting
For those whose frantic social whirl
Was one more satsang meeting
For those who gave up everything
And all the dreams they planned out
For those who looked for light divine
And found an ambient bland-out
For those who came like sleepwalkers
With hearts and minds sincere
For those sho sought the love supreme
But found a panacaea
For those who earned their cash to buy
His houses, plane and car too
For those who succumbed in the night
To Prem Pal Nosferatu

For those whose eyes saw through his lies
(To him you don't mean tuppence)
And wait with bated breath to see
The fraud get his comeuppance
For those who knew for years just
satsangservicemeditation
For those who tell it clearly now
With righteous indignation
For those who forwent fish and fowl
And meat and lust and pleasure
For those who crapped on near and dear
For one elusive treasure
For those whose years of practice
Left them feeling robbed and cheated
Now wait for dawn to see the vampire
Finally unseated

For those still twingeing from the guilt
Of the neglectful mother,
Father, brother, sister, friend
Or the unfaithful lover
For those who long to shift that guilt
From their own weary shoulder
For those whose wisdom came so late
- are now two decades older
For those whose thoughts they echo mine
(I'll be your friend forever)
Who know that love and laughter
Are the only earthly treasure
For those whose friends met tragic ends
In suicide or breakdown
And await Van Helsing to come by
To whack that final stake down...

I wish you health and happiness
Good ale and song and cheer
And most of all - from your good friend
A wonderful New Year
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Date: Sat, Jan 02, 1999 at 21:42:58 (EST)
From: bill
Email: None
To: Larkin
Subject: Love you all - Fill yer boots!
Message:
'for those who crapped on near and dear
for one elusive treasure.'

Your the greatest larkin!

I am off to out of state work again so I bid you fond farewell
I'll read all of your writings, in the inactive files and
the archives.
This is great to read a Larkin post as I head out.
Although it is great to read a Larkin post anytime.

I'll take you up on your line--'I'll be your friend forever.'
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Date: Sat, Jan 02, 1999 at 21:46:30 (EST)
From: Gail
Email: None
To: Bill & Larkin
Subject: Love you all - Fill yer boots!
Message:
Ditto!
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Date: Sat, Jan 02, 1999 at 22:48:40 (EST)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Larkin/Nigel
Subject: Love you all - Fill yer boots!
Message:
I was really moved by your poem. It had all the anger in it but also the tenderness of finding out what really matters in life. Well done, Nigel. Can Willi come out to play now?
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Date: Sat, Jan 02, 1999 at 22:54:41 (EST)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: Love you all - Fill yer boots!
Message:
I'm sorry I said that all the brain talk was like being pecked to death by ducks. Actually that was my evil twin, Bratty Bathsheba, who is known to say 'Bite me' when annoyed. (; Seriously, I hope you didn't take offense. Actually it's a true sign of how comfortable I feel with y'all that I could say that.
Helen
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Date: Sat, Jan 02, 1999 at 23:24:08 (EST)
From: Willi Kranz
Email: gothman@redcrow.demon.co.uk
To: Mrs Helen
Subject: To be comfortable ist schon
Message:
I utter a quick 'Gruss Gott', my freundliche humdingers. Hello Mrs Helen. I am sometimes pleased to be pecked by ducklings. In the rock 'n' roll lifestyle we do comical things of this kind. Mostly in the van when we are having some more schnapps. We had it all cookin' but now it is late and Gerhard's tape has snapped. We are hiring a very cheap studio, you must understand. Otto is trying to splice it together. If so the album will be a landmark on rock history, perhaps. They will also make a compact disc because it is a sexy beat . I will report back to you fondly. Yes, Robyn, I am faithful still.

bis spater,
Willi
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Date: Sun, Jan 03, 1999 at 06:22:18 (EST)
From: Robyn
Email: sundogs@hotmail.com
To: Willi Kranz
Subject: To be comfortable ist schon
Message:
Dear Willi,
You dear, sweet, crazy rock man! This is the easyiest relationship I've ever had Willi, must be made in heaven! Is that in Malabu?
First Larkin warms my sentimental heart and then you have me laughing and re reading your post to laugh again. This is why you are being good for me Willi. :)
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Sun, Jan 03, 1999 at 12:51:08 (EST)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Willi Kranz
Subject: For you, my dear Willi
Message:
Peck Peck Peck
Go the ducks in my brain
Peckin' me to death I'm going insane
Just wanna veg and not think anymore
Vegetables in my refrigerator rotting to the core

A new song for your band, Willi

Go crazy, man
Love,
Helen
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Date: Sat, Jan 02, 1999 at 23:11:37 (EST)
From: ham
Email: None
To: Larkin
Subject: Love you all - Fill yer boots!
Message:
I'd vowed not to duplicate posts, but......you are indeed a treasure,

but as for that willi kranz, any chance of him seeing the light and getting into the '90's and drum & bass, or in willi's case it would have to be goa trance! No take that last sentence back, I'd get even more jealous.

luv ya

ham
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Date: Sun, Jan 03, 1999 at 06:14:08 (EST)
From: Robyn
Email: sundogs@hotmail.com
To: Larkin
Subject: Love you all - Fill yer boots!
Message:
Dear Larkin,
Hope you got my wish for a happy new year, I sent it through Nigel :). Your poem here has warmed my heart on this cold morning. Thank you, dear.
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Sun, Jan 03, 1999 at 17:14:17 (EST)
From: RT
Email: ommm
To: Larkin
Subject: Yer boots, for better or verse
Message:
Thanks be to Larkin. Well done!

Love you all - Fill yer boots!
Larkin's rhyming raps its roots
on a franchise from a hindu
Seek within? He sells a windoo.

Love you all - Fill yer boots!
The Master Baiter took the loots
For Peace on Earth? ME first-devotion!
Capitalized on breathing's motion.

Love you all - Fill yer boots!
Now ex-premies watch the Suits
Of Elan Vital beg. It's funny:
'Truth is free' ; but HE costs money!

Love you all - Fill yer boots!
As time passes so will routes
Flown by Rawat. Just Say Knowing!
-To the cult of group-think sowing.

Love you all - Fill yer boots!
We are free for good pursuits
Next time you hear guru talking
Remember: boots are made for walking.

RT
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Date: Sun, Jan 03, 1999 at 23:10:21 (EST)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: RT
Subject: Yer boots, for better or verse
Message:
Love it, RT, especially the 'boots were made for walking' part! I can just see Nancy Sinatra in a plastic mini skirt and go-go boots now, singing this song
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Date: Sun, Jan 03, 1999 at 23:52:31 (EST)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: RT
Subject: Yer boots, for better or verse
Message:
Great one, as usual, RT! - all I can do is finish the line -
'and one of these days these boots are gonna walk all over you.'
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Date: Mon, Jan 04, 1999 at 08:07:33 (EST)
From: Robyn
Email: sundogs@hotmail.com
To: Helen
Subject: Yer boots, for better or verse
Message:
Dear Helen and RT,
Helen, Happy Birthday! I agree with you and as usual both Larkin and RT have done excellent jobs. We are so fortunate to have such talented people posting here.
Thanks RT! :) :) :)
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Mon, Jan 04, 1999 at 14:09:19 (EST)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Helen
Subject: what does fill yer boots mean
Message:
My biker neighbot (mispelling intentional this time!)
started his bike on new year's eve, midnight. Just fer all of us! whoo hoo! what a guy.
His girlfriend, the one with the job who owns the house, is about 15 years older than him and dies her hair white blonde like Nancy S. I call her Nancy and him Cleatus.
What's this got to do with anything?
Well, because I dont' get the thread title: Fill your Boots? huh?
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Date: Tues, Jan 05, 1999 at 00:25:53 (EST)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: what does fill yer boots mean
Message:
HA! WHoo, hoo!

They shore sounds like fun!!
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Date: Sun, Jan 03, 1999 at 23:55:03 (EST)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Larkin
Subject: Happy New Year, Larkin!
Message:
A little bird told me that you're going to have to take a break for a while, so I (we) wish you well. Thanks for the wonderful verse.
Love,
Katie
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Date: Mon, Jan 04, 1999 at 14:54:51 (EST)
From: barney
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: Boots were made for licking
Message:
Sorry, no prose will follow
But, only from HIS Boots will I swallow
But, first I lick them so, so clean
Oh, you all know exactly what I mean

These boots were made for licking
These boots were made for kicking
And I'm the one they're for
When I'm down there, kneeling on the floor


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Date: Mon, Jan 04, 1999 at 15:06:01 (EST)
From: Robyn
Email: sundogs@hotmail.com
To: barney
Subject: Boots were made for licking
Message:
Dear Barney,
So you are a comedia song writer also. Very funny! You guys should start a band like Al Yankavitch! Hahahahaha!
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Mon, Jan 04, 1999 at 15:47:23 (EST)
From: barney
Email: None
To: Robyn
Subject: what does fill yer boots mean?
Message:
Thanks, Robyn. This is all so much fun because we have the Perfect Object of Jest.

What the heck does 'fill yer boots' mean?
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Date: Mon, Jan 04, 1999 at 18:20:23 (EST)
From: Robyn
Email: sundogs@hotmail.com
To: barney
Subject: what does fill yer boots mean?
Message:
Dear Selene and Barney,
Fill yer boots... My guess, since you asked I felt I had to give it some thought! :) Didn't some old forgien Santa fill shoes left on the porch? I think it was wooden shoes in Holland. What the hell, at least I tried.
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Thurs, Jan 07, 1999 at 08:56:39 (EST)
From: Bootsy
Email: None
To: Robyn
Subject: what it means...
Message:
I have heard two explanations:

After a sudden gold-strike, or pirates find treasure, and there's nothing to carry the stuff away in, they say 'Fill your boots!' It's a kind of 'dive in there and help yourselves' expression, sometimes uttered in ale-houses as a kind of toast.

Or in the police, when a senior officer is giving encouragement to a junior they might say 'time to fill your boots', meaning 'it's about time you grew up and took a little responsibility in life'.
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Date: Sat, Jan 02, 1999 at 16:27:30 (EST)
From: g's mom
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: where the guru sends his dogs
Message:
I had a computer crash and was looking for this website and found this amusing link

http://www.kamercanine.com/clientel.htm
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Date: Sat, Jan 02, 1999 at 16:37:01 (EST)
From: barney
Email: None
To: g's mom
Subject: Lawrence Welk & Nikki Sixx
Message:
That was cool!

If we were treated half as well as well as Maharaji's dogs we probably wouldn't be here (ex-premie.org) today.

I wonder if Kamer Canine College will be contacted by Elan Vital to make some changes. We should keep our eyes on this.
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Date: Sat, Jan 02, 1999 at 19:00:53 (EST)
From: x
Email: None
To: G's Mom
Subject: This is really hilarious
Message:
Good job G's mom, that was the best laugh I've had in days! I can't believe it's under Guru Maharaji instead of Rawat.
I think it's funny that this place publishes a list of clients. It's also funny that Guru Maharaji is listed under celebrity clients.
I bet he never thought his name would be listed like that when he brought his dogs in. He must have brought them in a while ago, back when he still used the Guru prefix.
Oh well I'm sure he knows about this now, since he has people with knowledge(note the proper terminology) doing service(or whatever they call it now) monitoring this site.
GM is in a bind though, sort of, because if he has the name removed from the list he looks like an uptight control freak, and will further prove that not only is he aware of this forum, but he lets himself be influenced by it.
His other option is to leave the GM tag on the list, which is pretty embarassing.
I predict the name Guru Maharaji will fade from the list soon. So hurry and get a look.
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Date: Sat, Jan 02, 1999 at 22:52:12 (EST)
From: nigel
Email: barkin@redcrow.demon.co.uk
To: g's mom
Subject: hallowed company indeed
Message:
I mean the Fifth Dimension and The Sandpipers. Forgive me Lord. Now I understand... eternal pranams... please, please let me back in. By your grace or something. Hell, what am I supposed to say nowadays? It's all gone blank... too late, I guess. I can still play a pretty good green tambourine...
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Date: Sun, Jan 03, 1999 at 12:09:42 (EST)
From: nigel
Email: None
To: nigel
Subject: trivia question (ot)
Message:
It wasn't the Sandpipers who did 'Green Tambourine' - that was the Lemon Pipers. So what did the Sandpipers do? The question's been bugging me all morning. I think it was something really naff and insipid, but I'm not sure.
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Date: Sun, Jan 03, 1999 at 15:50:17 (EST)
From: ham
Email: None
To: nigel
Subject: trivia question (ot)
Message:
Wasn't it 'Guatanamara', something also about some dodgy film with Liz Taylor & Richard Burton is flitting about my brain, an arty community, in California/Mexico?
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Date: Sun, Jan 03, 1999 at 16:19:54 (EST)
From: They taught the dogs
Email: None
To: all
Subject: 'Pranam Fido', he taught the
Message:
rest of us to roll over and play dead!
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Date: Sat, Jan 02, 1999 at 06:14:04 (EST)
From: syd
Email: syd@gold.ac.uk
To: Everyone
Subject: first western mahatmas in uk
Message:
Can anyone remember the name of the first western 'mahatma' to come to the UK, in '74 I think (maybe '73). I remember seeing him talking and the write up in divine times. Was that Bob Mishler?
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Date: Sat, Jan 02, 1999 at 11:28:26 (EST)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: syd
Subject: first western mahatmas in uk
Message:
One of the first 'western' mahatma was a guy named Arthur Brigham (I cannot recall his Indian name). I think there were four at the beginning - two men and two women, but I can't remember who the other people were. There's lots of people on the site who know more about this. As far as I know, Bob Mishler was never a mahatma.
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Date: Sat, Jan 02, 1999 at 11:48:11 (EST)
From: Joy
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: first western mahatmas in uk
Message:
The first four western Mahatmas made by the BM simultaneously were:

Kathy Sullivan (Pranam Bai)
Bill Patterson (Mahatma Satchitanand)
Ira Woods (Mahatma Gurupujanand)
Arthur Brigham (Mahatma ??--can't remember!)

There was an English guy, Saphalanand, who was a mahatma before that, probably around 1971, though I don't know if Maharaji made him a mahatma, or the holy family did, or if he was self-styled.

To my knowledge [no pun intended], the only one still a practicing premie (though I don't know if he's still a mahatma/initiator/instructor) is Ira Woods. We have had various discussions about the other three on the site here from time to time, check the archives.
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Date: Sat, Jan 02, 1999 at 14:55:55 (EST)
From: syd
Email: syd@gold.ac.uk
To: Joy
Subject: Thanks - and more on Saph
Message:
Joy,

Many thanks for the detail. Will troll the archives for more.

I remember Saph - real name Brian Kitt - who (so I was told in '73) went to India in about 1968, was the first westerner to accept m as his lord and master, was made a mahatma by m and sent back to start propagation. Charanand came to london a year or two after. Saph liked chillums and was said to have used them in k sessions, sometimes in the back of his van with hitch-hikers he had just picked-up (this may just be rumour of course but it was certainly a widely-believed story that that is how DLM really started in the west).

After m came over, maybe before that when charanand came, saph was stopped from giving k sessions. However since we were all told that every mahatma was a realised soul, saph was still treated with a great deal of awe by the average premie punter.
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Date: Sat, Jan 02, 1999 at 15:32:14 (EST)
From: Seymour
Email: seymour_t@rocketmail.com
To: syd
Subject: Thanks - and more on Saph
Message:
Wotcha Syd,
Just thought I'd add my welcome to this forum and to say that I remember Saph well - he certainly like his chillum and was a nice guy - one of the true hippies. Although I am only an occasional contributor I try to keep up with at least some of the recent posts every week or two. You seem to have developed your own opinions, which sound very healthy IMHO, of DLM and the knowledge on your own in the years since being a practising premie and I am sure you will enjoy taking part in the discussions that take place but be warned... although it will make you laugh, give you inspiration and insight into the truth of what happened (and is still happening) it can be addictive, just look at Jim, Nigel et al(who are doing a stirling job). Mind you I would be there all the time if I didn't have to spend so much time earning the daily bread etc.
There's nothing like an open debate where you make friends and are able to say whatever you like, I think it conforms to the philosophical idea of the dialectic where people may take opposite sides but come away from the argument a little wiser than when they entered it. Unfortunately there are not too many premies willing to get into a debate about the merits and failings of knowledge or the authority of Maharaji to tell others how best to live their lives, but there are a few and there is a wide spectrum of opinions about the value of meditation, religion, humanism etc.
Of course there is also the chance to hear other peoples experiences of being entrapped in a false worldview.
This says where I am coming from but I did not suffer so much as others and do not really have an axe to grind.
I think M believes in himself ( at least some of the time ) although that's no excuse for misleading thousands of people.
I'm glad to see that you have renewed your old friendship with Anth. Was he the teacher with a good sense of humour, who was very active in setting up a premie school? I always enjoyed his satsang. Of course these days ordinary premies are not able to give satsang which I think is a real shame as this was a chance to express yourself. Most of the contributions on Enjoying Life lack the humour and insight that was sometimes present at places such as the Palace of Peace and small gatherings. I went down to Dulwich most nights and enjoyed some of the evenings but mostly I was there out of a sense of duty.
Anyway, welcome to the Forum I look forward to your future posts.
Cheers
Seymour
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Date: Sat, Jan 02, 1999 at 16:05:49 (EST)
From: syd
Email: syd@gold.ac.uk
To: Seymour
Subject: Thanks - and more on Saph
Message:
Hi Seymour,
Thanks for the warm welcome. I've spent far too much time here these past few days, mainly because I am on leave (work starts again on monday) and because I have free local calls to my ISP (videotron line to Dircon). May not be here quite as much in a couple of days time, unless it is quiet at work :-)

Anth. Was he the teacher with a good sense of humour, who was very active in setting up a premie school?
Yes, that was probably Anth - he had a very bristly dark moustache.

I did not suffer so much as others and do not really have an axe to grind
This is true for me too and, as I've posted several times over the past few days, I realise now that I had a very lucky escape.

Where were you living when you used to go to the PoP? I lived in a squatted street in clapham with other premies from October 75 to march 76 and used to go every night, no. 36 bus there and back. Couldn't imagine a more enjoyable place to spend the evenings. Sad or what?

Syd
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Date: Sun, Jan 03, 1999 at 08:40:40 (EST)
From: seymour
Email: None
To: syd
Subject: Thanks - and more on Saph
Message:
Hi Syd,
used to go every night, no. 36 bus there and back. Couldn't imagine a more enjoyable place to spend the evenings. Sad or what?


Yes I was probably on that bus each night also, although I can't remember the number as I had my mind on realising my soul and other such ethereal things as I made my journey from Richmond or Putney.
You are a lucky man having free phone calls. This forum business is costing me a fortune.
Cheers,
Seymour
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