Ex-Premie.Org

Forum III Archive # 36

From: Jan 21, 1999

To: Feb 2, 1999

Page: 3 Of: 5



Happy and living in Paris -:- lipsynching and more... -:- Tues, Jan 26, 1999 at 17:53:00 (EST)
__Selene -:- Daya and daddy -:- Tues, Jan 26, 1999 at 18:34:03 (EST)
____Mike -:- Daya and daddy -:- Tues, Jan 26, 1999 at 18:37:04 (EST)
______selene -:- Daya and daddy -:- Tues, Jan 26, 1999 at 19:09:55 (EST)
__x -:- lipsynching and more... -:- Tues, Jan 26, 1999 at 19:05:57 (EST)
____Lena - wardrobe mistress -:- lipsynching and more... -:- Tues, Jan 26, 1999 at 19:15:58 (EST)
______Gail -:- Hi, Lena: Are you the -:- Tues, Jan 26, 1999 at 22:18:27 (EST)
________Selene -:- Hi, Lena: Are you the -:- Wed, Jan 27, 1999 at 00:16:18 (EST)
____Sir Dave -:- lipsynching and more... -:- Tues, Jan 26, 1999 at 19:21:42 (EST)
______Zac -:- Talking back.... -:- Wed, Jan 27, 1999 at 10:01:17 (EST)
________Helen -:- Talking back.... -:- Wed, Jan 27, 1999 at 23:51:57 (EST)
__________Sir Dave -:- Talking back.... -:- Thurs, Jan 28, 1999 at 01:44:28 (EST)
____Happy and living in Paris -:- No respect ! -:- Tues, Jan 26, 1999 at 19:48:24 (EST)
____Helen -:- Destitute Daya's Vacation -:- Tues, Jan 26, 1999 at 22:41:37 (EST)
______Jean-Michel -:- Scraping up $ -:- Wed, Jan 27, 1999 at 03:32:44 (EST)
________Mike -:- If the cash.... -:- Wed, Jan 27, 1999 at 11:27:57 (EST)
________Helen -:- Scraping up $ -:- Wed, Jan 27, 1999 at 14:22:02 (EST)
__AJW -:- lipsynching and more... -:- Wed, Jan 27, 1999 at 05:10:42 (EST)
____Sir Dave -:- You can't do that -:- Wed, Jan 27, 1999 at 09:15:28 (EST)
______AJW -:- Quite right milud. -:- Wed, Jan 27, 1999 at 11:00:17 (EST)
________Sir Dave -:- Was your mouth out -:- Wed, Jan 27, 1999 at 11:32:16 (EST)
____Happy and living in Paris -:- No quarrel with the girls -:- Wed, Jan 27, 1999 at 18:00:16 (EST)
______ham -:- Happy & The Spice Girls -:- Wed, Jan 27, 1999 at 18:40:19 (EST)
______Selene -:- No quarrel with the girls -:- Wed, Jan 27, 1999 at 18:47:27 (EST)
________x -:- No quarrel with the girls -:- Wed, Jan 27, 1999 at 19:06:39 (EST)
__________Selene -:- No quarrel with the girls -:- Wed, Jan 27, 1999 at 19:25:31 (EST)
__________AJW -:- No quarrel with the girls -:- Thurs, Jan 28, 1999 at 04:48:38 (EST)
____________JW -:- No quarrel with the girls -:- Thurs, Jan 28, 1999 at 13:48:21 (EST)
______________barney -:- Hansi not at programs -:- Fri, Jan 29, 1999 at 13:48:19 (EST)

Victoria -:- By His Grace -:- Tues, Jan 26, 1999 at 15:58:14 (EST)
__Mike -:- By His Grace -:- Tues, Jan 26, 1999 at 18:29:00 (EST)
____Victoria -:- By His Grace -:- Tues, Jan 26, 1999 at 19:08:31 (EST)
______barney -:- By Mike's he he he Grace -:- Tues, Jan 26, 1999 at 19:29:26 (EST)
________Victoria -:- H.o.D. -:- Tues, Jan 26, 1999 at 19:48:05 (EST)
__________Helen -:- H.o.D. -:- Tues, Jan 26, 1999 at 22:50:53 (EST)
____________Victoria -:- H.o.D. -:- Wed, Jan 27, 1999 at 21:27:04 (EST)
______________Helen -:- Premie sex:hot? NOT! -:- Wed, Jan 27, 1999 at 23:04:26 (EST)
________________John -:- Warning!! X rated -:- Thurs, Jan 28, 1999 at 10:59:43 (EST)
__________________Selene -:- Warning!! X rated -:- Thurs, Jan 28, 1999 at 14:46:52 (EST)
____________________Helen -:- Warning!! X rated -:- Thurs, Jan 28, 1999 at 14:59:52 (EST)
____________________Jon -:- Warning!! X rated -:- Thurs, Jan 28, 1999 at 16:40:42 (EST)
______________________Mike -:- Warning!! X rated -:- Thurs, Jan 28, 1999 at 16:52:40 (EST)
____________________gerry -:- Warning!!X rated -:- Thurs, Jan 28, 1999 at 16:54:20 (EST)
______________________Helen -:- Warning!!X rated -:- Thurs, Jan 28, 1999 at 17:01:08 (EST)
________________________gerry -:- Warning!!X rated -:- Thurs, Jan 28, 1999 at 17:21:10 (EST)
__________________________Minnesota housewife -:- Philosophical musings -:- Thurs, Jan 28, 1999 at 22:17:00 (EST)
____________________________Runamok -:- Philosophical musings -:- Thurs, Jan 28, 1999 at 23:08:28 (EST)
______________________________VP -:- Philosophical musings -:- Sat, Jan 30, 1999 at 00:26:05 (EST)
________________________________Runamok -:- amusing philosophies -:- Sat, Jan 30, 1999 at 03:04:39 (EST)
__________________________________VP -:- musing philosophies -:- Sat, Jan 30, 1999 at 17:00:35 (EST)
______________________Mike -:- JESUS, joseph and 'gerry' -:- Thurs, Jan 28, 1999 at 17:11:44 (EST)
______________________selene -:- Warning!!X rated -:- Thurs, Jan 28, 1999 at 18:25:32 (EST)
__________barney -:- H.o.D. Red is work of others -:- Wed, Jan 27, 1999 at 14:18:07 (EST)
____________Jim -:- Radio Oracle -:- Wed, Jan 27, 1999 at 21:05:00 (EST)
______________Victoria -:- Radio Oracle -:- Wed, Jan 27, 1999 at 21:35:43 (EST)
____________Victoria -:- H.o.D. Red is work of others -:- Wed, Jan 27, 1999 at 22:15:49 (EST)
______________barney -:- lived in Denver briefly -:- Wed, Jan 27, 1999 at 23:33:54 (EST)
________Helen -:- By Mike's Bwa ha ha -:- Tues, Jan 26, 1999 at 22:12:16 (EST)
__________Victoria -:- What??? (ot) -:- Wed, Jan 27, 1999 at 21:48:51 (EST)
____________Helen -:- What??? (ot) -:- Wed, Jan 27, 1999 at 23:14:00 (EST)
______Scott T. -:- By His Grace -:- Tues, Jan 26, 1999 at 23:31:47 (EST)
__Katie -:- By His Grace -:- Tues, Jan 26, 1999 at 19:04:10 (EST)
____Victoria -:- By His Grace -:- Tues, Jan 26, 1999 at 19:30:49 (EST)
______Katie -:- By His Grace -:- Tues, Jan 26, 1999 at 20:06:07 (EST)
________Victoria -:- me too -:- Tues, Jan 26, 1999 at 21:03:42 (EST)
__________Katie -:- me too -:- Wed, Jan 27, 1999 at 11:32:46 (EST)
______Rick -:- By His Grace -:- Tues, Jan 26, 1999 at 23:26:24 (EST)
______Brian -:- By His Grace - Synchronizzzzzz -:- Wed, Jan 27, 1999 at 02:16:50 (EST)

Happy and living in Paris -:- Very informative ! -:- Mon, Jan 25, 1999 at 15:01:39 (EST)
__y? -:- Very informative ! -:- Mon, Jan 25, 1999 at 17:01:24 (EST)
____barney -:- Lip Stinking the Songs -:- Mon, Jan 25, 1999 at 19:21:36 (EST)
______John -:- the joy in rejecting the guru -:- Tues, Jan 26, 1999 at 13:50:17 (EST)
________Victoria -:- Amen! (nt) -:- Tues, Jan 26, 1999 at 14:13:49 (EST)
________Gail -:- I felt it too! -:- Fri, Jan 29, 1999 at 07:45:48 (EST)
______Selene -:- Lip Stinking the Songs -:- Tues, Jan 26, 1999 at 14:40:21 (EST)
________Victoria -:- Lip Stinking the Songs -:- Tues, Jan 26, 1999 at 14:55:56 (EST)
__________Selene -:- Lip Stinking the Songs -:- Tues, Jan 26, 1999 at 18:29:25 (EST)
____________Victoria -:- Lip Stinking the Songs -:- Tues, Jan 26, 1999 at 20:01:41 (EST)
____Happy and living in Paris -:- Very informative ! -:- Mon, Jan 25, 1999 at 19:38:47 (EST)
__Helen -:- Very informative ! -:- Mon, Jan 25, 1999 at 17:54:47 (EST)
__Katie -:- Very informative ! -:- Mon, Jan 25, 1999 at 18:19:36 (EST)
__Jean-Michel -:- Hi Happy ! -:- Tues, Jan 26, 1999 at 06:15:56 (EST)
____Happy and living in Paris -:- Hi Happy ! -:- Tues, Jan 26, 1999 at 17:37:20 (EST)

too embarrased to admit -:- old Premie tune.... -:- Mon, Jan 25, 1999 at 13:35:09 (EST)
__JW -:- Another Verse -:- Mon, Jan 25, 1999 at 14:10:06 (EST)
____bb -:- Another Verse -:- Mon, Jan 25, 1999 at 16:18:39 (EST)
__Helen -:- old Premie tune.... -:- Mon, Jan 25, 1999 at 18:02:32 (EST)
____Katie -:- old Premie tune.... -:- Mon, Jan 25, 1999 at 18:27:06 (EST)
______Nigel -:- Yuk, yuk & infinite YUK! -:- Mon, Jan 25, 1999 at 20:34:40 (EST)
________Gail -:- If Gold Could be Melted and -:- Tues, Jan 26, 1999 at 00:57:42 (EST)
__________Sir Dave -:- If Gold Could be Melted and -:- Tues, Jan 26, 1999 at 09:44:30 (EST)
____________Mike -:- Broken record -:- Tues, Jan 26, 1999 at 11:18:14 (EST)
______________Katie -:- M's sweet sixteenth -:- Tues, Jan 26, 1999 at 13:13:56 (EST)
________________Bobby -:- M's sweet sixteenth -:- Tues, Jan 26, 1999 at 13:47:02 (EST)
__________________Katie -:- M's sweet sixteenth -:- Tues, Jan 26, 1999 at 13:58:48 (EST)
____________________Katie -:- PS to Bobby -:- Tues, Jan 26, 1999 at 14:05:33 (EST)
______________________Bobby -:- PS to Bobby -:- Tues, Jan 26, 1999 at 14:15:18 (EST)
____________________dv -:- M's sweet sixteenth -:- Tues, Jan 26, 1999 at 19:12:57 (EST)
______________________Katie -:- M's sweet sixteenth -:- Tues, Jan 26, 1999 at 20:08:54 (EST)
______________________John -:- M's sweet sixteenth -:- Wed, Jan 27, 1999 at 09:34:39 (EST)
__________JW -:- Rich Neal and the Other Guy -:- Tues, Jan 26, 1999 at 13:32:31 (EST)
____________Victoria -:- Do ya think I'm sexy? -:- Tues, Jan 26, 1999 at 14:05:38 (EST)
______________Gail -:- Runamok wants one -:- Tues, Jan 26, 1999 at 20:42:05 (EST)
________________Victoria -:- Thanks anyway -:- Tues, Jan 26, 1999 at 21:24:43 (EST)
__________________Gail -:- Thanks anyway -:- Tues, Jan 26, 1999 at 22:35:11 (EST)
__________________Katie -:- cut-off posts-technical note -:- Wed, Jan 27, 1999 at 11:46:54 (EST)
______________JW -:- Do ya think I'm sexy? -:- Wed, Jan 27, 1999 at 01:27:15 (EST)
______________Helen -:- Do ya think I'm sexy? -:- Wed, Jan 27, 1999 at 17:54:41 (EST)
____________John -:- My vote for worst song goes to -:- Tues, Jan 26, 1999 at 14:05:56 (EST)
______________Mike -:- I think downpour.... -:- Tues, Jan 26, 1999 at 14:16:52 (EST)
________________Bobby -:- I think downpour.... -:- Tues, Jan 26, 1999 at 14:32:31 (EST)
________________Sir Dave -:- Even worse... -:- Tues, Jan 26, 1999 at 14:36:37 (EST)
__________________John -:- Even worse... -:- Tues, Jan 26, 1999 at 14:46:41 (EST)
____________________Bobby -:- Even worse... -:- Tues, Jan 26, 1999 at 14:54:49 (EST)
______________________Mike -:- You're right, Bobby -:- Tues, Jan 26, 1999 at 15:11:36 (EST)
______________________Jim -:- Absolute worst -:- Tues, Jan 26, 1999 at 20:08:32 (EST)
________________________CD -:- OK music -:- Tues, Jan 26, 1999 at 21:42:09 (EST)
__________________________Jim -:- OK music -:- Wed, Jan 27, 1999 at 19:03:26 (EST)
____________________________CD -:- OK music -:- Thurs, Jan 28, 1999 at 18:01:30 (EST)
______________________________gerry -:- OK music -:- Thurs, Jan 28, 1999 at 19:39:17 (EST)
________________________JW -:- Absolute worst -:- Wed, Jan 27, 1999 at 01:21:00 (EST)
__________________________John -:- The greatest song of all time! -:- Wed, Jan 27, 1999 at 09:25:04 (EST)
____________________________JW -:- The greatest song of all time! -:- Wed, Jan 27, 1999 at 16:41:55 (EST)
______________________________Gail -:- Songs are still sung today. -:- Fri, Jan 29, 1999 at 00:24:54 (EST)
__________________________ham -:- JW, spot on, sorry John -:- Wed, Jan 27, 1999 at 16:25:53 (EST)
__________________________Selene -:- Absolute worst -:- Thurs, Jan 28, 1999 at 12:49:16 (EST)
________________________John -:- You're being a bit harsh -:- Wed, Jan 27, 1999 at 11:05:58 (EST)
__________________________Helen -:- Smash the records -:- Wed, Jan 27, 1999 at 18:03:28 (EST)
____________________________Jim -:- Kim and Jim -:- Wed, Jan 27, 1999 at 18:58:41 (EST)
______________________________P -:- God, that is soooooooooooo -:- Wed, Jan 27, 1999 at 22:21:03 (EST)
______________________________Mike -:- Hey Jim -:- Thurs, Jan 28, 1999 at 11:23:04 (EST)
______________________________Jim -:- correction -:- Thurs, Jan 28, 1999 at 12:19:22 (EST)
________________________ham -:- Absolute worst -:- Wed, Jan 27, 1999 at 16:05:53 (EST)
__________________________Mike -:- Absolute worst -:- Wed, Jan 27, 1999 at 16:09:18 (EST)
____________________Mike -:- I'll second that -:- Tues, Jan 26, 1999 at 15:08:14 (EST)
______________________John -:- question for you Mike -:- Tues, Jan 26, 1999 at 15:39:58 (EST)
________________________Mike -:- Answer? -:- Tues, Jan 26, 1999 at 15:50:35 (EST)
__________________________John -:- Answer? -:- Tues, Jan 26, 1999 at 15:59:44 (EST)
____________________________Mike -:- Answer? -:- Tues, Jan 26, 1999 at 16:46:13 (EST)
______________________________Selene -:- I'm nosy too -:- Tues, Jan 26, 1999 at 19:23:39 (EST)
________________________________Mike -:- I'm nosy too -:- Wed, Jan 27, 1999 at 10:15:27 (EST)
____________________________CD -:- Answer? -:- Tues, Jan 26, 1999 at 21:52:19 (EST)
____________________________Tadd (just kidding) -:- Just a 'Tadd' light-fingered -:- Tues, Jan 26, 1999 at 22:52:07 (EST)
________________________y? -:- Suzi Bai -:- Tues, Jan 26, 1999 at 16:36:32 (EST)
__________________________dv -:- Suzi Bai -:- Tues, Jan 26, 1999 at 19:30:24 (EST)
____________________________Jethro -:- Suzi Bai -:- Wed, Jan 27, 1999 at 01:01:39 (EST)
____________________________JW -:- Suzi Bai -:- Wed, Jan 27, 1999 at 01:17:42 (EST)
______________________________dv -:- Suzi Bai -:- Wed, Jan 27, 1999 at 23:02:39 (EST)
________________________________JW -:- Suzi Bai -:- Thurs, Jan 28, 1999 at 13:00:01 (EST)
__________________________________Katie -:- to JW -:- Thurs, Jan 28, 1999 at 15:11:46 (EST)
__________________Victoria -:- Even worse... -:- Tues, Jan 26, 1999 at 15:36:30 (EST)
____________________Sir Dave -:- Even worse... -:- Tues, Jan 26, 1999 at 19:07:21 (EST)
______________________Victoria -:- Even worse... -:- Tues, Jan 26, 1999 at 21:39:03 (EST)
________________________Sir Dave -:- Even worse... -:- Wed, Jan 27, 1999 at 09:34:19 (EST)
______________________CD -:- Even worse... -:- Tues, Jan 26, 1999 at 21:48:55 (EST)
______________dv -:- My vote for worst song goes to -:- Tues, Jan 26, 1999 at 19:17:33 (EST)
______________Gail -:- Plucked out his eyes, he did! -:- Tues, Jan 26, 1999 at 20:48:43 (EST)
________John -:- Hilarious!!! (nt) -:- Tues, Jan 26, 1999 at 14:57:46 (EST)
______Helen -:- old Premie tune.... -:- Tues, Jan 26, 1999 at 22:17:57 (EST)


Date: Tues, Jan 26, 1999 at 17:53:00 (EST)
From: Happy and living in Paris
Email: Aifcee@aol.com
To: Everyone
Subject: lipsynching and more...
Message:
As these are my first steps in the world of Internet, I realized after I posted using a previous thread that it would be better to start a new one. Sorry for the repetition, I'm still learning !

Well, as I was pondering over a few things re: EV and the Biiig M, I recalled there was another thing that made me rather uncomfortable, at this same program, 2 years ago in Miami. Each time Daya sang (lip-synching or not, but maybe not, as the girl certainly can carry a tune !) M applauded her, but only her. Never the other singers. I imagine he adores his adoring daughter (the way she looked at him made me cringed, she looked as she was contemplating her lover, not her father, it was almost lurid, and I'm not one to look for weirdness usually, but I made me feel rather uncomfortable). To me, in the name of fairness, courtesy and tact, I do think he ought to have shown the same amount of 'excitement', even when it was not his own flesh and blood who was performing (some of the other singers were really good, at least their track was!!!). Which led me to think that somehow, the guy doesn't have much respect for his devoted followers after
all. And it wasn't the first time I felt this either. Many times, he seemed like he was adressing an audience of deeply retarted nitwits. Any of you felt this ?

Anyhow, more afterthoughts later !
'Night, ya all !
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Date: Tues, Jan 26, 1999 at 18:34:03 (EST)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Happy and living in Paris
Subject: Daya and daddy
Message:
Hi Happy
I am glad you brought that up. I thought the way she sang to him and the way they looked at each other was very creepy.
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Date: Tues, Jan 26, 1999 at 18:37:04 (EST)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: Daya and daddy
Message:
Selene: I watched the long beach video a while back and I believe I saw daya singing to daddy in it. If that's the case, then I HAVE to agree with both of you. 'WEIRD' would be the mildest word I could use to describe it.
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Date: Tues, Jan 26, 1999 at 19:09:55 (EST)
From: selene
Email: None
To: Mike
Subject: Daya and daddy
Message:
yup - is there such a thing as spiritual incest :)

In the bM's defense, I have to say, that other music is SOOOOO
old and boring!!!!!!! and I never could stand that sicky sweet voice Kim had.
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Date: Tues, Jan 26, 1999 at 19:05:57 (EST)
From: x
Email: None
To: Happy and living in Paris
Subject: lipsynching and more...
Message:
Happy and living in Paris,
'She looked as if she was contemplating her lover not her father.'
I know what you mean. I was recently at a program where Premlatta and Daya were part of the show and I was extremely creeped out by their role in the whole thing. For one thing it seemed inappropriate, to me, to be staring all starry eyed at your father singing saccharine drenched love songs. What kind of weirdo thinks up stuff like that? Tres bizarre! I didn't notice if Daya was lipsynching, but if she was, she did a good job fooling me.
The person who did not do a good job fooling me though, was Premlatta. I got a really bad vibe from her. I found her to be creepy, in a similar way to Big M, just really phony and condescending. It's funny because I know premies, like my mom, would totally disagree and even be surprised I'm saying that. I think that's because the brainwashing wipes out so much objectivity. When I described how Maharaji's slick little stage act didn't impress me a bit, and that I found his platitudinal condescending monologue to be uninspiring and tepid, she was surprised.She literally couldn't believe that someone could hear M and not find him to be anything less than sensational.
Anyway back to Premlatta, her canned speech, delivered in a practiced and insincere way, seemed so transparent to me, that I couldn't believe everyone was buying into it hook line and sinker. Then I remembered where I was! This actually ties into what you said about it seeming that M felt he was speaking to an audience of deeply retarded nitwits. Remember, M isn't brainwashed like his premies are. He's thinking the way you're supposed to (more or less). Being your own master, not letting yourself be taken advantage of, being cautious, DOUBTING!, not being a gullible idiot, etc., so of course he feels that the premies are COMPLETE MORONS. Big M knows that he would be smart enough to see through his own BS, if the situation were reversed, and he was a potential sucker (I mean devotee), instead of the Lotu. Therefore how much respect COULD he have for his devotees? Not much apparently, judging by his actions and words. In Fact I'm sure that he thinks that premies are among the stupidest most gullible fools on the entire planet!
Also, thank you for exposing the little gem, that Rawatt the cheapskate, had the PREMIES scrape up the bread for his daughter Daya and her friends 'vacation' to Paris. What a bunch of scavengers. God forbid Rawatt pay for ANYTHING out of his own pocket. Man, that selfish little lardball really knows how to 'save for a rainy day' doesn't he?
Take it easy, x
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Date: Tues, Jan 26, 1999 at 19:15:58 (EST)
From: Lena - wardrobe mistress
Email: None
To: x
Subject: lipsynching and more...
Message:
And I wonder how many designer gowns she bought while in Paris?
Who pays for those I wonder?
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Date: Tues, Jan 26, 1999 at 22:18:27 (EST)
From: Gail
Email: None
To: Lena - wardrobe mistress
Subject: Hi, Lena: Are you the
Message:
Toronto monitor who got deprogrammed in the process?
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Date: Wed, Jan 27, 1999 at 00:16:18 (EST)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Gail
Subject: Hi, Lena: Are you the
Message:
Nothing that glamorous (?)
Just me. Mass. to PA to AZ

Sounds like an interesting story though. Deprogrammed? And what's a monitor? Is that like a community coordinator?
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Date: Tues, Jan 26, 1999 at 19:21:42 (EST)
From: Sir Dave
Email: david.studio57@btinternet.com
To: x
Subject: lipsynching and more...
Message:
Your post, x, reminds me of something I've often wondered. Has anyone close Maharaji ever confronted him or argued with him or given him a piece of their mind. We hear many stories about Maharaji shouting and screaming at premies around him but have any of these premies ever turned round and shouted and screamed back at him or lost their temper with him and told Maharaji what they think of him?

If nobody's done this then I think it's about time someone did. Knock him down a peg or two.
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Date: Wed, Jan 27, 1999 at 10:01:17 (EST)
From: Zac
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: Talking back....
Message:
At one of the rejoice sessions in 1985 or so a brave woman premie
wanted an explaination about the closing of the ashrams. She was in the front row not more than 5 feet from M and let him know that many people had been hurt with no explaination. He shut her down with 'maybe this isn't for you.' I was sitting close by and she was visibly upset but argued of course knowledge was for her but she just wanted an explaination. Hard to remember the dialogue but I think it was a repeat of 'maybe this isn't for you.' It is something I remember with embarrassement and regret that I did not press the issue along with that woman because that was my question as well.

What pissed me off was that she was sincerely addressing her master for maybe the only time in her life so that she could resolve some things and continue on. I could only come up with
two scenerios to warrant that response from M at the time. One was that he knew her and was giving her the best answer for her. Two she was a crazy fucked up bitch and didn't deserve shit.
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Date: Wed, Jan 27, 1999 at 23:51:57 (EST)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Zac
Subject: Talking back....
Message:
WOW, she was really brave. My hat goes off to that brave woman wherever she is!! I guess this 'wasn't for her' becuase she wasn't surrendered (weenie) enough for the premie job description, eh?
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Date: Thurs, Jan 28, 1999 at 01:44:28 (EST)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: Helen
Subject: Talking back....
Message:
'This isn't for you' meant 'I have no interest in discussing this with you so will you kindly go away and get lost because I have no interest in you whatsoever.'
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Date: Tues, Jan 26, 1999 at 19:48:24 (EST)
From: Happy and living in Paris
Email: Aifcee@aol.com
To: x
Subject: No respect !
Message:
Well, if M did't say it a million times, he never said it :'Common sense is very uncommon'... Was he talking about us, hummm I wander ??? We were not supposed to THINK, right, so common sense was supposed to go out the window, because if premies had any common sense, they would have stop, think and consider and thus would have seen they were slightly brainbleached... He should have said, had he be more honest (if he only knows the meaning of the word) and had he any RESPECT for those thanks to whom he was earning his daily gold bowl of soup : 'Leave your brain at the door, just bring in your wallet; that's all you'll need, that's all I want, apart from your total blind admiration...' M. Ego Trip if there ever was one ! Well, I did have common sense, I still have it, and I think I'm using it to my best advantage. Who said 'Living well is the best revenge ?' Hope you folks are all taking THAT revenge on this whole silly trip !
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Date: Tues, Jan 26, 1999 at 22:41:37 (EST)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: x
Subject: Destitute Daya's Vacation
Message:
Now, x, how do you REALLY feel???(he he) Great post! Man, scraping up $ for his daughter's vacation--that is unbelievable. So cheesy, sleazy, shabby, flabby, and scheezy. You are so right that M must think we're all a bunch of cheeseheads (no offense, Sir D, I don't mean a cheesehat on the top of the head, Imean the contents inside the head made of a whey-like substance)
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Date: Wed, Jan 27, 1999 at 03:32:44 (EST)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Helen
Subject: Scraping up $
Message:
scraping up $ for his daughter's vacation--that is unbelievable.

He's even scraping $ for himself!

Remember: the BM almost never uses his own wallet for himself!

When he is on tour or on holidays somewhere, the premies raise funds to pay for all his expense, lets say 10,000/day if he's by himself, 20,000 if he's with the family, and IF the cash is there he'll come. Otherwise he won't.
Same thing for any program: if the cash isn't there BEFORE, or at least certainty that it will be, not speaking of the appropriate suites, cars, security etc, HE WON'T come, and cancel whatever was planned. There is a whole checklist on this.
That's one of his secretary's job to make sure that everything is right. And Yoram's job to 'inspire' premies to donate when there is a gap.
She (Kathy) has correspondents in every country to do this, and it's a very important part of the BM's organisation. He himself addressed this issue in almost every conference I've been a part of.
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Date: Wed, Jan 27, 1999 at 11:27:57 (EST)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: If the cash....
Message:
JM: NOW THAT LINE WAS FUNNY!!!! It sounds like a twisted version of Field of Dreams, 'If you build it, they will come!' It's now been changed to, 'If the CASH is there, then he will come!' ;-)
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Date: Wed, Jan 27, 1999 at 14:22:02 (EST)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Scraping up $
Message:
Man,, that makes me throw up--so much for the altruistic, loving guru. Thanks, JM.
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Date: Wed, Jan 27, 1999 at 05:10:42 (EST)
From: AJW
Email: anthginn@yahoo.com
To: Happy and living in Paris
Subject: lipsynching and more...
Message:
Bonjour Happy,

Comment ca va?

In England we still have our 'Royal Family' (I believe yours were persuaded to quit a couple of hundred years ago). Our Queen's kids have, since the day they were born, been indoctrinated to believe that their special purpose in life is to, in Charles' case, take the throne and be our 'Monarch'. All the people around him have been telling him this. He is a 'Prince', one day he will be 'King', have his ugly mug all over the money and stamps, wear a big crown, etc. He almost certainly believes all the bullshit that goes along with being a king, and he's stuck in his trip. It's all he's ever known. I've never met him, I'm a republican, I think having a Royal Family is an insult to everyone in the country. Does this mean that if I ever met Prince Charles I should 'attack' him in some way? Maybe, inspite of all the Royal bollocks inside his head, he's actually a good, caring person. Just as maybe under my working class bollocks I am too.

So to Daya. She's been brought up to think she's a kind of princess too, but actually someone more important than a mere 'royal', because she's the daughter of 'the Perfect Master'. This has been laid on her just like royalty bullshit was laid on Charles and Anne. Wadi, who now, I believe, works in some full time position, has had the same stuff laid on her. So in a way, they've been brought up to be 'premies' too, just like we were, except they've had it since they were born. So, slagging them off for what they do is just like slagging any premie off for what they do. And they do just what we did.

And finally, having spent lots of time with the girls over the years, I've only ever found them to be friendly, warm, considerate human beings, surving an unusual childhood very well.

AJW
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Date: Wed, Jan 27, 1999 at 09:15:28 (EST)
From: Sir Dave
Email: david.studio57@btinternet.com
To: AJW
Subject: You can't do that
Message:
You can't ban our Monarchy. What would all the Japanese tourists do when they came to London? They wouldn't be able to stand outside Buckingham Palace all day trying to catch a glimpse of the Queen when she's actually in Balmoral, Scotland.

ANd what about the dear old Queen Mother? She's nearly a hundred you know, bless her! And what about Charles? We need someone to talk to the plants and keep our deer population down.

And dear old Prince Phillip, we need him to tell us to get our fingers out and warn us against spending too much time in Japan or we might go slitty eyed. Me, I still fancy Princess Anne. Pwoar, what a looker! And her Maj Elizabeth, she's the personification of perfection and I won't hear a word said against her. She's got a difficult job and I couldn't do it. All those dinners and waving to people and shaking hands and saying, 'And what do you do?' All that and she doesn't even go to the toilet!
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Date: Wed, Jan 27, 1999 at 11:00:17 (EST)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: Quite right milud.
Message:
You're right Sir Dave. I forgot my place and your words of aristocratic wisdom have showed me the error of my ways. I'm going to run out now and buy some stamps, just to look at her picture. You are very persuasive. Where did you get the inside info on her maj's toilet habits, or lack thereof.

Yours,

a humble subject.
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Date: Wed, Jan 27, 1999 at 11:32:16 (EST)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Was your mouth out
Message:
How could you even THINK that the Queen might go to the toilet! Go wash your mouth out with soap and water, right now! You, you unclean person you.
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Date: Wed, Jan 27, 1999 at 18:00:16 (EST)
From: Happy and living in Paris
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: No quarrel with the girls
Message:
Dear AJW,
You wrote :
'So, slagging them off for what they do is just like slagging any premie off for what they do.'
I've got no bone to pick with the girls -- I'm sure they are nice, I've never met any of them and cannot say a bad word about them, beside that Daya does have a great voice, that the way she looks at Dad with gooey eyex when he's on stage made me feel awfully uncomfortable -- but with their father, if anyone... and I don't even have a BIG bone to pick with him, for that matter, I never felt like a victim of his manipulation, as I always kept quite a distance with the whole trip ! So pray tell, where did you read my critizing them so I may improve my english syntax in order to make myself perfectly understood and therefore not create any misunderstanding. Thanks a bunch. And by the way, I love the Brits, and their Royals, and their sense of humor, their ploughman's luchn, their cider on tap, their crumpets, and even their Heinz Baked Beans... but I have a cat and as long as the quarantine is on, I will not be able to move in that delightful country of yours...

Au revoir et à bientôt !
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Date: Wed, Jan 27, 1999 at 18:40:19 (EST)
From: ham
Email: None
To: Happy and living in Paris
Subject: Happy & The Spice Girls
Message:
and don't forget the most important thing, our music.

I've read the quarantine issue will soon be no more.

And thank you for zen football managers, Viera & Pettit
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Date: Wed, Jan 27, 1999 at 18:47:27 (EST)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Happy and living in Paris
Subject: No quarrel with the girls
Message:
I'm not so sure. How old does one have to be in this country to be considered an adult and expected to make and be responsible for their decisions? Yes they had an unusual childhood. Yes they may have been 'nice'

But when do we say OK time to face up to the facts? We all jump on M. If we use the brainwashed childhood argument, I see M as being MORE innocent, he grew up in India where this guru devotee stuff is commonplace. Same with the comparison to the Royals. That's been normal for the Brits. Daya and gooey or whatever her nickname is have to know our culture, even if it is the odd Malibu variety.

I think there may be a love of the lifestyle and spotllight mixed up in this equation.
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Date: Wed, Jan 27, 1999 at 19:06:39 (EST)
From: x
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: No quarrel with the girls
Message:
I'm the one who said that I don't trust those girls. I think they are full of shit, especially Premlatta. When I saw her speak EVERY instinct I had told me that she was insincere.
I think she knows that it's all just a business, and that Prem Pal is just a clever scammer, who was born into it, like her!
What's the alternative? That she believes gmj's bullshit claims?
NO WAY!!
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Date: Wed, Jan 27, 1999 at 19:25:31 (EST)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: x
Subject: No quarrel with the girls
Message:
Thanks x
I feel the same way.
This thread makes me want to find the 'Chair Heresy ' archive. A funny chain story we wrote about Daya. Maybe tomorrow.
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Date: Thurs, Jan 28, 1999 at 04:48:38 (EST)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: x
Subject: No quarrel with the girls
Message:
Why so strange that she should beleive her dads bullshit claims? We did, and we didn't have it laid on us from day 1.

I never got the impression that anyone around Maharaji thought there was any other type of business besides Perfect Master stuff going on. I think they all believe it.

AJW
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Date: Thurs, Jan 28, 1999 at 13:48:21 (EST)
From: JW
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: No quarrel with the girls
Message:
Maybe they do believe it and maybe they don't. Maybe they believe it sometimes and not other times. Clearly, they are entirely invested in it, just like dad, so the ability to be objective is quite limited. But I understand that Hansi isn't as sold on what his dad does as the girls are. I have heard he is embarrassed about his dad's profession and hence doesn't appear at programs and certainly isn't into singing gooey-eyed love songs to his dad in front of thousands of people. Several people have commented that he is nowhere to be seen and isn't invoved in any way in his dad's scam. So, I don't think it's and either or type of thing.

Most of the rest of us who were programmed into the cult never spent any time about Maharaji and hence it was easier to think of him as divine, and to hoist onto him all of our fantasies. That wouldn't be true for his own family. On the other hand, the girls have a vested interest in believing it's true that rank and file premies don't have.

I think even Maharaji knows at times that he's a fraud, but the ability to self-deceive is pretty strong in all of us, and for Maharaji it would mean questioning his entire life. Strong stuff.

I also thought it was very bizarre, and kind of sick, the way Daya looks at her father when singing those songs. It does cause a very uncomfortable feeling just looking at it. As Selene would say, 'ick.'
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Date: Fri, Jan 29, 1999 at 13:48:19 (EST)
From: barney
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: Hansi not at programs
Message:
yes, for quite some time Hansi was conspicuously absent from programs as evidenced by an empty seat in the front row where The Family sits.

However, I believe that he was present at the last Long Beach I went to in 1997.
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Date: Tues, Jan 26, 1999 at 15:58:14 (EST)
From: Victoria
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: By His Grace
Message:
You know, I'm thinking how I really finally got out of the cult and I'm realizing it was only by his grace.

I remember one night riding around in my cousin's car and I was a totally confused premie and I was in the back seat with my half-aspirant boyfriend and she was a premie in the front seat with I can't remember, whoever was her premie/aspirant boyfriend at the time, and she wanted to drive by the Denver residence and play the radio oracle -- you know, whatever song came on when it was our turn would be a message direct from Maharaji.

Ya gotta believe...it really works!

So we all had our turn with the radio and the residence, I wanted to be last. When my turn came, Fleetwood Mac came on it was that song 'If you don't love me now, you will never love me again, I can still here you saying you will never break the, never break the chain.' Yeah. And I looked into my heart of hearts and knew that I did not love him. And then I thanked him silently for letting me go, for sealing that moment for me.

Sick, huh?

Love,
Victoria
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Date: Tues, Jan 26, 1999 at 18:29:00 (EST)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Victoria
Subject: By His Grace
Message:
Victoria: I don't believe that I've ever had the pleasure to swap posts with you. Nice to meet you.

NO, I don't think it's sick.... he he he :-) If you were a sailor, you'd know the famous axiom: ANY port in a storm! You were lucky enough and intelligent enough to do some real introspection when the opportunity first availed itself. GOOD ON YA!
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Date: Tues, Jan 26, 1999 at 19:08:31 (EST)
From: Victoria
Email: None
To: Mike
Subject: By His Grace
Message:
Thanks, Mike.

I've been surfing this forum since last summer off and on. I feel like I know you, even though you don't know me. I really like your posts and especially all your he-he-he laughing.

Love,
Victoria
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Date: Tues, Jan 26, 1999 at 19:29:26 (EST)
From: barney
Email: None
To: Mike
Subject: By Mike's he he he Grace
Message:
we need Mike to record his he-he-he as a WAV file and put it on the House of Drek site

Mike, please?
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Date: Tues, Jan 26, 1999 at 19:48:05 (EST)
From: Victoria
Email: None
To: barney
Subject: H.o.D.
Message:
Oh yes,

and I love the House of Drek too. Also looking forward to Sir Dave's new site. If there were such a site, I can think of lots of people I would like to apologise to for any part I had in persuading them along Maharaji's path. I was a really big proselytizer back then, somebody said it was a way to do S,S & M all at the same time. On the other hand, I don't really 'blame' anyone for encouraging me on that path...it's just that we were misguided (if you could say we were at all guided in the real sense of having a guide -- you know, just go inside and listen to your heart...)

Hey Barney, I love the Red Nighty chronicles. There really was a lot of sex going on back then (at least in the circles I traveled in), too bad for the devout ashramers. I remember being really freaked out when I came back from 2 or 3 festivals on the east coast and found out that my aspirant boyfriend was screwing the sister that took over my room while I was gone -- and in my bed! You know, they were just going inside and listening to their hearts, so it must have been okay, by his grace.

Love,

Victoria
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Date: Tues, Jan 26, 1999 at 22:50:53 (EST)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Victoria
Subject: H.o.D.
Message:
That's what happens when you don't have a mind!! I can see it now: 'It just happened, there was a vibe, I'm not responsible, I was lonely/drunk/Maharaji made me do it/don't be upset, you're in your mind if you're jealous or upset, blah blah blah.'

Why don't you tell some of your experiences in the Nighty Chronicles? We need some more characters and you could write some minor characters into the novel and show the world how pure we non-ashram premies really were!!
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Date: Wed, Jan 27, 1999 at 21:27:04 (EST)
From: Victoria
Email: None
To: Helen
Subject: H.o.D.
Message:
Hi Helen,

show the world how pure we non-ashram premies really were!!

Sounds like you may have a few stories to tell yourself???

I will if you will. But I'll have to think of a suitable pseudonym. Hmmm.

;)

Victoria
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Date: Wed, Jan 27, 1999 at 23:04:26 (EST)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Victoria
Subject: Premie sex:hot? NOT!
Message:
I'll tell you one thing--premie men were the most sexless bunch in the world. I'd rather have sex with Harvey Milktoast!! (Did I say that??) Of course, I'm sure I was quite the prize myself back then---NOT.

Let's face it, when sex happened 'by Guru M's grace' it was kind of a weird spectator sport when you felt like he was watching, you know? We had a thread a few months back about premie sexuality that was kind of a hoot, kind of sad, a lot of twisted relationships back then when trying to communicate was considered being in your mind.
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Date: Thurs, Jan 28, 1999 at 10:59:43 (EST)
From: John
Email: None
To: Helen
Subject: Warning!! X rated
Message:
Aw gee Helen, you've reminded me of some great sex I had in the satsang hall in Phoenix. It was just a house that no one actually lived in, and we used to meditate there at night, since we lived across the street. Me and my 'housemother' were pulled together like magnets, AFTER we meditated, of course!

She used to do exercises during meditation, like standing on her head and of course her robe would fall down and there she'd be her gorgeous legs in all their glory, unfortunately she did wear underwear but it was still a site I could hardly tear my eyes away from. That's when I learned that meditating with the eyes open can sometimes be very 'uplifting'.

No, but seriously it was interesting because we were both sort of involved with two ashram premies, this was before I was in the ashram, and so there was absolutely no emotional involvement. You know? We just enjoyed each other's bodies and didn't try to start a 'relationship'. My theory at the time was that it was because she was also an Aquarius, like myself.

Oh, also, the sex itself was somewhat unusual because we'd be rolling on the carpeted floor right in front of the altar and then as the excitement grew...
ooops I gotta go, sorry!
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Date: Thurs, Jan 28, 1999 at 14:46:52 (EST)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: John
Subject: Warning!! X rated
Message:
Hey John
Maybe you should write a Red Nighty episode :)

I can't picture ANYONE in that Phoenix ashram having sex. That's funny.
I wonder if we ever met back then? Every Tucson premies dream was to have a car together enough to make the drive to Phoenix. Sad but true. Ours wasn't quite there so I didn't go very often.
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Date: Thurs, Jan 28, 1999 at 14:59:52 (EST)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Selene & John
Subject: Warning!! X rated
Message:
That's pretty funny, John. I agree that you should write a chapter for the Chronicles--IF YOU DARE.

I have a difficult time imagining what you describe. The ashram in Grand Rapids, Mich was so repressed. There was one sister in the ashram that the community men lusted after (they told me). They used to look at her bare feet while she gave satsang & go wild. I think their pheromones and her pheromones were interacting or something. Perhaps it was a case of the forbidden fruit tasting the sweetest
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Date: Thurs, Jan 28, 1999 at 16:40:42 (EST)
From: Jon
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: Warning!! X rated
Message:
So you were in Tucson? I was in phoenix in '75-76, truly glorious days when the focus shifted from austerity to 'enjoying life'. We got together quite often with Tucson premies.

The ashram moved to this big house with a swimming pool and a tennis court. I was just a regular old community premie then but I used to hang out at the 'shram, and we'd sit around and read The Inner Game of Tennis and then go out on the court and 'practice' (if you know what I mean). I remember we all kind of agreed that the book was bullshit because in fact, how well one played tennis depended on how coordinated one was, how much one practiced, how in shape you were, quick on the feet, etc. and not whether one was 'following the real ball inside'.

Well, like I said, I was having a very painful romance with the ashram housemother who was, I found out later, getting it on ( and would soon marry) the community coordinator, and the woman I had fun with in the satsang hall was madly in love with this other ashram brother and getting nowhere. So, we sort of followed the idea of 'love the one you're with'.
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Date: Thurs, Jan 28, 1999 at 16:52:40 (EST)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Jon
Subject: Warning!! X rated
Message:
Jon: Do you remember Tadd's last name? John would like to know. Are referring to the nice red-brick house? Can't quite remember which street it was on.
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Date: Thurs, Jan 28, 1999 at 16:54:20 (EST)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: Warning!!X rated
Message:
Dear Selene,

I, er, had sex in the Phoenix ashram. My girlfriend and I had just hitched there from San Diego and we slept in their office the first night we got there (remember this was about October 1973.) We didn't get up for Arti or meditation, and although everyone was kinda nice in a barely tolerant manner, we decided to move into the utility room for our next (and what turned out to be the last) night in the ashram. It was there I dun the deed! For some reason, we were asked to leave that next morning.

This is kinda gross, but I recall she was on the rag, and being the ambitious young fellow I was, I pulled out the plug and throw it at the furnace. Image that, defiling the Lord's heating plant.
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Date: Thurs, Jan 28, 1999 at 17:01:08 (EST)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Warning!!X rated
Message:
Gerry, that's a little more information than we needed to know, okay? (;
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Date: Thurs, Jan 28, 1999 at 17:21:10 (EST)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Helen
Subject: Warning!!X rated
Message:
Sorry, Helen. Didn't you read the warning label, though?
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Date: Thurs, Jan 28, 1999 at 22:17:00 (EST)
From: Minnesota housewife
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Philosophical musings
Message:
Didya ever notice when a relationship is new ya never mind doin' it when the woman is on the rag but when the relationship gets a little older it's like, 'man, can't you wait?'

Just an observation, don'tcha know
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Date: Thurs, Jan 28, 1999 at 23:08:28 (EST)
From: Runamok
Email: None
To: Minnesota housewife
Subject: Philosophical musings
Message:
Finally, a little philosophy around here...
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Date: Sat, Jan 30, 1999 at 00:26:05 (EST)
From: VP
Email: None
To: Runamok
Subject: Philosophical musings
Message:
Run,

That was good--Very funny. Thanks for the laugh.

Been gone for several weeks, and this is what I come back to.

Sheesh :)
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Date: Sat, Jan 30, 1999 at 03:04:39 (EST)
From: Runamok
Email: None
To: VP
Subject: amusing philosophies
Message:
Actually, the forum has kind of sparked my interest in philosophy. It's always been something that I thought of as too intellectual to mess with.

I think most or many people consider the same issues, but can't recognize anything in the name-infested waters which philosophers swim around in.

Glad my droll and dry humor didn't get completely overlooked. Peace, VP. Be good.
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Date: Sat, Jan 30, 1999 at 17:00:35 (EST)
From: VP
Email: None
To: Runamok
Subject: musing philosophies
Message:
You do have a very good sense of humor, Run.

I, too, have read more on philosophy, religion, and (GASP!)even evolutionary psychology since coming to this forum. Never was very interested in doing the actual WORK of reading and thinking about that sort of thing before coming here. Used to be I just wondered about it all. I still wonder, but now I have more theories/ideas to wonder about.

I'm going to visit Katie. I'll talk to you when I get back. Keep everyone on topic 'til then ;)
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Date: Thurs, Jan 28, 1999 at 17:11:44 (EST)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: JESUS, joseph and 'gerry'
Message:
gerry: Good god, MAN! Even 'I' would not defile the holy innards of an ashram...... and the lards furnace, to boot! What kahonies you had.... he he he
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Date: Thurs, Jan 28, 1999 at 18:25:32 (EST)
From: selene
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Warning!!X rated
Message:
yeah, it's gross but I am sitting here laughing my ass off.
The idea of you 2 doing that, and my image/memory of how uptight those Phoenix shramies were ...
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Date: Wed, Jan 27, 1999 at 14:18:07 (EST)
From: barney
Email: None
To: Victoria
Subject: H.o.D. Red is work of others
Message:
Victoria,

Thanks so much. However, the Chronicles of the Red Nighty is really the work of a number of talented people on the Forum. I'm merely posting the work.

Indeed, if you wish to contribute any little tidbits you are more than welcome. I certainly liked your Radio Oracle and the cheating boyfriend story in the above post.

My own Radio Oracle story would read as driving from the West Coast to the East on I-70 at the point coming down from the mountains and Denver pops into site at 5:00 a.m. the I can see clearly song comes on. I was not as fortunate as you and stayed with it for many years more.
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Date: Wed, Jan 27, 1999 at 21:05:00 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: barney
Subject: Radio Oracle
Message:
Hi guys,

That 'radio oracle thing first struck me, as it did so many, when I was doing acid. Everything was portentious, meaningful and sublimely ironic. It followed, we thought, that the world was always like that but we, confused humans as we were, were simply too clouded over by samskara, to borrow a useless term from a mindfuck religion, to recognize.

So we applied this philosophy to premiedom.

Now that was all fine and good when you're hearing Roberta Flack's 'Killing me Softly' or something. (I'd actually heard that she was a premie then and wrote it for m. Guess what? That's not true.) But what about when Stevie Wonder's 'Mistra Know-it-all' came on the radio?

He's the man
With a plan
Gotta counterfeit dollar bill in his hand
He's Mistra Know-it-all


I didn't know what to think. I decided it was a test.
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Date: Wed, Jan 27, 1999 at 21:35:43 (EST)
From: Victoria
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Radio Oracle
Message:
Hey Jim,

It only works if you're driving by The Residence at the time. Or if you ask with an open heart.

=)

Victoria
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Date: Wed, Jan 27, 1999 at 22:15:49 (EST)
From: Victoria
Email: None
To: barney
Subject: H.o.D. Red is work of others
Message:
Hey barney!

Were you going to a program in Denver? Or did you live there?

It was a huge community and when I traveled I got different responses from premies. In North Carolina, satsang at a premie's home, they treated us like very special people...how nice it must be to live in a large community, you know, like being at a festival all the time. In Massachusetts I had a hard time getting a ride home from satsang, one of the premies I met told me it was better to just refuse dinner invitations since then you wouldn't have to explain why you were vegetarian. Zealot that I was, I chastised him and suggested that this presented a perfect opportunity to proselytize. No wonder they went the other way when they saw me coming.

=)

Victoria
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Date: Wed, Jan 27, 1999 at 23:33:54 (EST)
From: barney
Email: None
To: Victoria
Subject: lived in Denver briefly
Message:
At that point in time, February 1977, I had been living on the West Coast. 1977 was the year of all the programs. The Miami program (Holi) been announced ahead of time maybe at the Denver Brown Palace program that I went to and had pretty much burned a bridge at the best job I had while living on the coast. So, I figured that I'd better head back east-ish to allow myself a better chance to scrape up the money to make it to the shows. It was probably a good decision because I was able to make it to all the damn programs that year. But, leaving the West Coast was really a mistake for me personally because as Jim Morrison sang,
the west is the best, get out here and we'll do the rest.
Ride the blue bus baby, the blue bus.


I lived in Denver at 1311 Marion St. during the spring of 1974 when a carload of us drove out to see what we thought was going be the entire Holy Family. Because of the Mata Ji split and Maharaji getting married that didn't happen. But, if you were there then you know that there was a lot of programs and the infamous Rotten Vegetables satsang.

The day after THE WEDDING I hooked up with some people and there was a shindig in the mountains. Way, way, way too much champagne. Sang some funky adlib song with Rennie Davis and Jacques Zandoz. I'm pretty sure that this day was also my real birthday and, oddly, it was Rennie's and Jacques' as well. My brush with fame.

Barely made it back to downtown Denver where I jumped out and found an alley to do that Bhole Shri thing on my hands and knees. (No, I wasn't driving.)

Eventually I left Denver in July or so and got a ride with some premies going to Boston and they dropped me off in my hometown in the midwest.

Yeah, Denver felt like the place to be at that time. Wish I had stayed there, too.

And, yeah, I felt like a big shot back in my little community after having been to Mecca and driven past Dahlia St. many times and brought little food gifts. But, we weren't hip to Radio Oracle.
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Date: Tues, Jan 26, 1999 at 22:12:16 (EST)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: barney/victoria
Subject: By Mike's Bwa ha ha
Message:
I also like Mike's sound 'bwa ha ha' which is exactly the sound one makes when reading something super hilarious on the forum and projectile-spitting their coffee all over the keyboard. Welcome, Lady Victoria. What's it like having such a regal name? I mean do ya ever feel like picking your nose in public just to rebel against such a classy name?
Helen
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Date: Wed, Jan 27, 1999 at 21:48:51 (EST)
From: Victoria
Email: None
To: Helen
Subject: What??? (ot)
Message:
Hey Helen,

Actually, I never felt like rebelling against my name. I like your name too. I chose it for my confirmation name. Thanks for the sweet welcome. Just don't pick on me too much, I'm kind of sensitive and a bit paranoid. =) That's why I need to use emoticons.

Victoria
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Date: Wed, Jan 27, 1999 at 23:14:00 (EST)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Victoria
Subject: What??? (ot)
Message:
Hope you didn't mind me teasing you. Actually I think your name is beautiful. I guess Helen is kinda hard to live up to also --Helen of Troy and all that. But I like having a a real strong name too.

I really liked what you said about your love for your kids and how it was a real love and not a phoney baloney distant kind of love like we had for GM.
I also could identify with your story about how you woke up and realized that you never loved Maharaji. I never really did either. I wanted to because I wanted to follow the guru formula but it was all so forced. Singing to a picture, it just didn't make sense.

Well, welcome again, I look forward to your future posts

Helen
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Date: Tues, Jan 26, 1999 at 23:31:47 (EST)
From: Scott T.
Email: None
To: Victoria
Subject: By His Grace
Message:
Victoria:

I feel like I know you, even though you don't know me. I really like your posts and especially all your he-he-he laughing.

That's just the way he is in real life, too.

-Scott
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Date: Tues, Jan 26, 1999 at 19:04:10 (EST)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Victoria
Subject: By His Grace
Message:
Hi Victoria,
That is a great story, and I don't think it's weird at all. If you ever write a Journeys entry, which I hope you'll consider doing, please include it. While I was reading it, I kept thinking that the same thing could have happened to me - my 'deconversion' experience was just that fast. I see now that a lot of other incidents led up to that final experience - like the 'drip, drip, drip' in AJW's Journeys entry - but at the time, it seemed like a radical change of heart.

What I really like about the story, other than the fact that it's just a really good story, is that you were able to realize that you DIDN'T love Maharaji. I can just imagine someone else hearing the song and taking it to mean that they weren't devoted enough. Anyway, thanks for telling it.

Love,
Katie
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Date: Tues, Jan 26, 1999 at 19:30:49 (EST)
From: Victoria
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: By His Grace
Message:
Thanks Katie,

I've been thinking about writing a Journeys entry, but finding it hard to narrow it down. Even though I was only involved for about a year and a half, it seems there were lots of things leading into it and then years getting really out of it -- not sure if I'm REALLY really out of it yet since my ex-premie sister pointed out that I must have some lingering issues which keep leading me back here to the exers' forum.

It's true that I didn't love him then, and in my innocence I felt like I had made a sincere try of it. So, if he was ready to foretell that I would NEVER love him again, I really couldn't see the point to hanging around any longer.

I just think it's kind of funny in a sick sort of way because, at least in the group I hung out with, we were all very in to the synchronicity of it all. My sister often brings up that her favorite satsang was 'fanbelt' satsang. You know, like you were on your way to a program and your fanbelt broke and just then someone came along and just happened to have an extra one in their trunk. Only by his grace! Oh thank you Lord, etc., etc.

Know what I mean?

Love,
Victoria
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Date: Tues, Jan 26, 1999 at 20:06:07 (EST)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Victoria
Subject: By His Grace
Message:
Hi Victoria -
I definitely remember the 'fanbelt' type satsang. The people I hung around with before I was a premie (most of whom ended up becoming premies too) were really into 'signs from god' and synchronicity, and we carried that whole thing into premiedom.

If you ever get a chance to watch the 'Lord of the Universe' video (I have a copy but its are out on loan now), Rennie Davis does this whole thing about how Maharaji's hotel room for Millenium was 'meant' for him because the bathroom was done in a swan motif, and the bedroom was called the 'master' bedroom and so forth. It's pretty funny.

You wrote:
I've been thinking about writing a Journeys entry, but finding it hard to narrow it down. Even though I was only involved for about a year and a half, it seems there were lots of things leading into it and then years getting really out of it -- not sure if I'm REALLY really out of it yet since my ex-premie sister pointed out that I must have some lingering issues which keep leading me back here to the exers' forum.

I think it's difficult to narrow things down too, but I hope you'll find the chance. I'm always interested in what led up to people's involvement, and of course it's helpful to hear how other people got out of it.

As far as coming back to the forum, part of the draw for me is that I was rarely able to talk about what had happened after it happened. When I left, it cut almost all my ties to other premies really abruptly - and its very hard to explain Maharaji to anyone who wasn't a premie or aspirant at one time. So my involvement was like an isolated incident - sort of 'out of time'. I had actually forgotten a lot - have remembered much since I've been posting here. (Besides I really like the other people who post on here - that's another reason I keep hanging around!)

Love,
Katie
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Date: Tues, Jan 26, 1999 at 21:03:42 (EST)
From: Victoria
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: me too
Message:
I do like the other people who post on this forum.

I have followed the links and done some of the searches and I definitely think this is the most interesting ex-cult site.

Also, for the most part I don't like to admit that I followed a guru, since so many times it was the instant ticket to non-existance in the 'real world' -- you know, what a stupid idiot I must have been to have fallen victim to cult brainwashing. Not a point of reference for most people... I really thought that most premies (and exes, for that matter) were very intelligent to begin with. My ex-premie sister and I have discussed how that was part of the draw in the first place. Not just a bunch of moonie love-bombing you know. And witness this forum with some of the mind-boggling discussion that goes on. At one time, I was into analyzing and discussing all the metaphysical stuff. In college after leaving the cult.

But now I'm more involved with raising my kids, hugging them and playing with them. In fact, when my first kid was an infant, I felt like I had finally found the perfect place for my devotion. You know, the baby needs you to be devoted to him since without you, well, anyway I just felt that the baby was really deserving of my service and love and such. It seemed like I had tried to give that kind of love to guru and to lovers and it was misplaced...not so with the baby. I think my sense of loving is a little screwed up since Maharaji. My premie cousin says it is because devotion is the highest form of love. But somehow, when I fall in love, I just want to go all the way and let it be totally unconditional. Right now, I think that only works with kids, and even with kids, you have to set limits for them (since not everyone out there is their mother, you know, big bad world out there.)

This is a place to share those memories and feelings. I really appreciate you and I hope you keep posting on the forum. You're so nice and level-headed. You make good sense.

I'll think some more about the Journey.

Love,

Victoria
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Date: Wed, Jan 27, 1999 at 11:32:46 (EST)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Victoria
Subject: me too
Message:
Hi Victoria -
Thank you for what you said about my posts. I'll probably be around on the forum for a while, since I work with Brian on maintaining the site and forum. Part of what I do is check the messages on the forum for content, so I can't resist posting answers to some of them. I really enjoy your posts too - the stories are great, and the thoughtful posts are, too.

You talked about unconditional love. I do think children are a good place to practice unconditional love, since that's really what they need. As you said, they do need limits too, but I think that if parents really love their children, they do put limits on them (I am speaking from experience as a child, not a parent - I don't have children.) I do think that children need some kind of discipline to feel secure: to feel that their parents are going to take care of them. I'm sure the other parents on here will have more to say about this!

As far as unconditional love in adult relationships - that's a tough one. I think it's a ideal to aspire to, but it has to be mutual, and one also has to love and accept one's self unconditionally (also another ideal to aspire to). That's the problem I had with devotion as a premie - it all went one way, and I didn't feel that premies really were encouraged to love and respect themselves unconditionally, if at all.

I understand what you mean about feeling unconditional love when you 'fall in love' (if I correctly understood what you meant'.) I do think that unconditional love becomes a lot harder after the 'falling in love' stage. Plus I don't think unconditional love means sacrificing yourself for the other person - there have to be boundaries to achive a mutual and mature relationship. I have a tendency to try and take care of the other person without taking enough care of myself, which doesn't make for a good relationship (I'm fortunate enough to be married to someone who doesn't want or need to be taken care of! I've learned a lot from this relationship.) Anyway, these are just my thoughts - as I said, it's a tough question!

I'd like to hear your Journeys entry if and when you decide to write it. I think they're really helpful to the other people who read the site, if that's any motivation (I'm known for harassing people to write their Journeys :) )

Take care.
Love,
Katie
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Date: Tues, Jan 26, 1999 at 23:26:24 (EST)
From: Rick
Email: None
To: Victoria
Subject: By His Grace
Message:
Hi Victoria,
Your story of the 'radio oracle' would then be 'reverse fan-belt satsang.
Rick
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Date: Wed, Jan 27, 1999 at 02:16:50 (EST)
From: Brian
Email: brian@ex-premie.org
To: Victoria
Subject: By His Grace - Synchronizzzzzz
Message:
You've reminded me of an article in the Connect magazine titled A Synchronized Approach. It features wonderful quotes by David Smith and Charanand (both fully-synchronized individuals) using that newest, buzziest of buzzwords - Synchronize.

David relates how the instructors gather:

We usually get together as a group around twice a year to get synchronized in our approach...

David adds:

I'm feeling so much more synchronized lately. [Maharaji]'s focused it beautifully so that our role is to simply provide support to allow him to do what he does.

Charanand agrees:

It's very important to stay in synch with [Maharaji].
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Date: Mon, Jan 25, 1999 at 15:01:39 (EST)
From: Happy and living in Paris
Email: Aifcee@aol.com
To: Everyone
Subject: Very informative !
Message:
I've just got my connection to the Net, and thanks to my good ol' buddy Jean-Michel's advice, I've been reviewing some of the stuff that's been written on the expremie or about-to-become expremie sites... Most informative, indeed. What struck me the most is the incredible lack of spontaneity that is plaguing EV and anything concerning M... which is to me the exact opposite of what this whole thing ought to be. It seems to me that M. is nothing more than a control freak who seeks absolute worship from its followers. I've received the big K around '76 -- doesn't make me feel any younger ! -- but I've always been a bit of a rebel and refused to follow blindly whatever trip was going on at any given time. I thought so many things were very weird, but it it seemed like things were tappering off in the 80's -- it did looked a bit tamer, less idolizing of M, less Indian folklore and traditions.. But boy, has it picked up in the last few years ! For me, it all came to a halt when I noticed that singers were lipsync-ing theirs songs to M during programs, that tents on Amaroo's camp site, if I remember correctly, were being rented $200 per night last time there was a big hoopla downthere, when I found out Daya was coming to France with a girlfriend in 97 and that the trip was being sponsored by those 'special premies' (I was contacted, though I'm not a 'special premie', but maybe there were desperate!!!!) as if Daddy doesn't have enough dough to cover her expenses... Enough is enough, I thought, I'm breaking from this whole shazzam once and for all. No more sitting on the fence, I'm chosing my side, and it's arriverderci, baby ! I made a huge difference in my life : I no longer felt this huge burden on my shoulders. I don't have to deal with this horrible mind game about trying to be a good premie, whatever that means, I don't feel this heavy guilt trip about never doing enough, not giving enough money, time, commitment, whatever... I used to feel like I was suffocating, I wasn't free and happy, but contrived and forced to behave in such manner that didn't reflect one bit my personality. It had become a huge drag, and an expensive hobby, to say the least, and I'm very happy and relieved to have broken off... Keep up the good work, I hope it will enlighten all those naive souls -- or not so naive, some of them want desperately to believe in M, and I hope their awakening won't be too rude. And one last word to Nigel, if he reads this : you've got a great sense of humor (I read your entry about the text editing on the 'happy to be a premie' site and it was hilarious, though what they're doing there is pathetic, to say the least !!!!)
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Date: Mon, Jan 25, 1999 at 17:01:24 (EST)
From: y?
Email: None
To: Happy and living in Paris
Subject: Very informative !
Message:
Hi Gay Paree!

'I used to feel I was suffocating. I wasn't free and happy, but contrived & forced to behave in such a manner that didn't reflect one bit my personality. It had become one huge drag, an expensive hobby to say the least. I'm happy & relieved to have broken away.' ....

How Articulate! My sentiments entirely.

Are you really French? Your Englais is so Bon.

I can't believe those naughty girls really expected 'special' premies to pick up the tab for their holiday. What gaul!

Also I didn't know those songs were lip-synched. It didn't seem like it to me at Long Beach etc.

Keep in touch & welcome aboard.
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Date: Mon, Jan 25, 1999 at 19:21:36 (EST)
From: barney
Email: None
To: y?
Subject: Lip Stinking the Songs
Message:
oh yeah, the songs have been lip synched for a number of years. However, the music was probably live. And it's only been recently (1996 or 1997) that the lip-synching and the music are from recordings.

The Miami '96 25th Year whatever had the classic mishap where, I don't know his name, but it was one of the old timers with reddish hair from England and I think his song was 'The Lord of the Universe'. Anyway, he missed his mark completely and had the microphone hanging at his knees when the words started. BM looked at him and just about laughed.

Today the programs seem to be just such finely crafted Hollywood productions that there is no redeeming spontaneity. It will only be a matter of time when BM never comes down from his mountaintop and tapes 'em in his studio and adds laughtracks and applause for beaming world wide via satellite.

Here's the program for a three day event:

Friday night - The Good to See You Get Warmed Up segment where sometimes he can be angry
Saturday Morning - The Almost Half Over - Get as much as you can segment
Saturday Evening - It's Almost Over Fairly Serious Satsang and maybe dancing
Sunday Morning - It's All Over Now, Baby Blue and maybe dancing and a call for participation only if you really feel it
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Date: Tues, Jan 26, 1999 at 13:50:17 (EST)
From: John
Email: None
To: barney
Subject: the joy in rejecting the guru
Message:
This is all so fascinating. I mean, I'm just overcome with a profound sense of thankfulness and gratitude that I got out when I did!
Who would have thought it would actually deteriorate to lip-synching devotional songs!?
Can it actually sink any lower?

In my day they were called festivals, or were they called programs? One of the reasons I got out when I did was that I had a very disturbing realization which was that the only thing happening was program after program after program. Nothing new was ever said, it was just another chance to sit in an audience and wait for the Master to repeat himself yet again.
On some level I just could not take it anymore. Yes, my beloved EGO took over my life. My ego stepped in and said 'hey boy, enough is enough! This sucks! This is boring! Get out of here, NOW!'

Ohhhh, thank you beloved ego for yanking me off the spiritual path of the former Guru Maharaj Ji. That path which goes absolutely nowhere but to a hall, where one sits in an audience and meekly waits for the Master to come.

Hey, you know what? There really is an experience that one gets when one rejects the guru!! It's a great feeling, it really is. It goes beyond logic, it just has to be felt to be understood.
Do I hear an Amen brothers and sisters?!
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Date: Tues, Jan 26, 1999 at 14:13:49 (EST)
From: Victoria
Email: None
To: John
Subject: Amen! (nt)
Message:
amen, brother =)
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Date: Fri, Jan 29, 1999 at 07:45:48 (EST)
From: Gail
Email: None
To: John
Subject: I felt it too!
Message:
There was a strange elation upon rejecting the guru. It only lasted a month or so.
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Date: Tues, Jan 26, 1999 at 14:40:21 (EST)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: barney
Subject: Lip Stinking the Songs
Message:
I LOVED that description of a 3 day event!
Couldn't have said it better. And I am glad it bored me to death.
Weird shit. What I can't get over is that some people, albeit not even close to the 70's numbers, but some still really get off on those festivals/programs/events/ Wonder what they
will call them in the next century?
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Date: Tues, Jan 26, 1999 at 14:55:56 (EST)
From: Victoria
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: Lip Stinking the Songs
Message:
Hi Selene!

I predict in the next century they will be called 'Renewals' and it will be our opportunity to renew our vows, our magazine subscriptions and our financial commitments.

Yours in cynicism and glad to be out too (even though I really liked the festivals and never found them boring, of course I only went to them for one year and a half -- the marathon every-21-days bunch of festivals in the U.S. in 1977).

Love,

Victoria
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Date: Tues, Jan 26, 1999 at 18:29:25 (EST)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Victoria
Subject: Lip Stinking the Songs
Message:
Why don't they just admit it's a religious revival and call them Revivals? My guess, that wouldn't sound hip and cool enuf.

I think you may not have been bored because they weren't as boring back then. You are lucky you've missed the 'new' image. YAWN!!
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Date: Tues, Jan 26, 1999 at 20:01:41 (EST)
From: Victoria
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: Lip Stinking the Songs
Message:
I know, RE-VITAL -- it could be a play on words you know, revival, and elan VITAL...that would work. I just thought renewal cuz that's what the one's my mom goes to are called (Catholic). She is having a terrific experience. I remember back in the old days, when I was giving her satsang and she told me she knew exactly what I was talking about since she had been there herself and had wanted to be a contemplative nun when she was a teenager. You know, the ones that spend most (all?) of their time praying for the poor soul's in pergatory.

I myself had a terrific experience on Easter when I went to church with my Mom and realized that satsang was actually happening right there at the Catholic church. Afterwards, I blissfully remarked to my uncle what a wonderful service it truly was. He said he thought it was rather too long. Well, I figured it was too bad he was just in his mind and wondered why did he go if he didn't have a good experience of it, you know?

Funny, huh?

Love,

Victoria
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Date: Mon, Jan 25, 1999 at 19:38:47 (EST)
From: Happy and living in Paris
Email: Aifcee@aol.com
To: y? and all
Subject: Very informative !
Message:
Well, remember in Long Beach, 2 years ago ? This red-headed ex-initiator now perhaps instructor, Rich somebody ? He certainly was lip-synching ! The song was 'I love you' (or was it 'In the downpour of the holy name' ??? Naw, 'twas 'I love you')... as were others singers... I think M. lives to control, and it's what I think is most offensive, apart from the money he's spending on this extravagant lifestyle, and for which we were hit on on regular basis... Anyhow, I've always felt that I should spent MY hard earned money on MY much less extravagant life style, and never felt much remorse for it, I must add... But I've just been reading some of the posts on the french forum and discovered that for some, this whole trip has been quite a distressing adventure, and I feel truly sorry for the pain they have encountered, and the let-down they have felt... I was lucky to have been borned a natural doubter, and since I never really believed in any god, the whole 'Lord of the Universe' business went over my head... I just wanted to know 'the source', if you know what I mean, but felt it wasn't worth moving in any ashram (What !!! Share MY room, give away MY salary and let SOMEONE ELSE drive MY car ??? NO WAY, PAL !) even if it meant not experiencing the Big Internal Bang -- and if I never did (expercience the Big Internal Bang), I guess it must be why ! Anyhow, it doesn't stop me from appreciating what is going on in my simple little life here in the heart of Paris la magnifique...

Thanks to all who are and have been participating to this forum and site. I hope it will be an eye opener for many, although I feel it will only open the eyes of those who are willing to have their eyes opened -- so many have invested so much in this whole silliness that it would be devastating to their psyche to have to face up to the facts...
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Date: Mon, Jan 25, 1999 at 17:54:47 (EST)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Happy and living in Paris
Subject: Very informative !
Message:
Great post, happy. Sounds like your boisterous personality could not be confined, nor should it be. thanks for sharing your thoughts
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Date: Mon, Jan 25, 1999 at 18:19:36 (EST)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Happy and living in Paris
Subject: Very informative !
Message:
Thanks for your post - very refreshing. I understand about the suffocation and the guilt - you express something very similar to what I felt when I decided to leave.

By the way,I agree about Nigel - he is wonderful (and Jean-Michel is too).

Hope you keep on posting.

Take care,
Katie
(I got the big K in 1972 - maybe you feel younger now? :)
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Date: Tues, Jan 26, 1999 at 06:15:56 (EST)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Happy and living in Paris
Subject: Hi Happy !
Message:
Glad to read you here!

We'll have some new French pals here soon, I guess they're still struggling with their software, and digesting all this stuff on the site.
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Date: Tues, Jan 26, 1999 at 17:37:20 (EST)
From: Happy and living in Paris
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Hi Happy !
Message:
Glad to to be here !
J'ai eu ton e.mail, et je viens de poster une 2ème fois (lipsynch and more)
Sorry you guys, just 2 frogs croaking at each other (nothing important said, but I hope this aside will not be considered too rude!)
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Date: Mon, Jan 25, 1999 at 13:35:09 (EST)
From: too embarrased to admit
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: old Premie tune....
Message:
This morning I had the annoying experience of finding myself humming an old tune from the '70s. This happens when I read this board too often.

It went like this....

I love you my Lord
Your Grace is overflowing
I love you
I love you
You are all knowing

Your feet they are golden
Your heart is endless love
Your body is golden?(hey..anyone wanna do a parody of THIS line?)
You are the source of Creation
My Lord

You MUST admit the is one of those unambiguous tunes that premies twist like a pretzel to explain away the meaning of. 'Well, just cause he let them sing it he was not representing himself as God', 'Well, we all are the source of creation because Knowledge is within inside each one of us' 'you cannot try to experience this by logic, just FEEL what you know inside' or ' you hate filled cretin leave my lord alone!!!'

Do these songs pop into your heads while you are doing mindless ( no pun intended) chores?

Must mean that I am ignoring the truth I KNOW within huh?
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Date: Mon, Jan 25, 1999 at 14:10:06 (EST)
From: JW
Email: None
To: too embarrased to admit
Subject: Another Verse
Message:
I recall another verse to that song, which might be even LESS ambiguous, if that's possible:

I love you my Lord
Your grace is overflowing
I love you my Lord
You are all knowing

You have given me life
Out of your mercy and compassion
I am so grateful
For the gift of devotion

[Hey, just because he's the creator, doesn't mean he's god, right? And lots of people are 'all knowing.' Yeah, he's just a meditation teacher (at least since 1992, before that he was god).]
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Date: Mon, Jan 25, 1999 at 16:18:39 (EST)
From: bb
Email: bb bezel bub
To: JW
Subject: Another Verse
Message:
Our father has come (drunken and stoned) to
show us the way on the path of devotion.
his love is pure and _______ like the ocean.

1992? JW! I beg to differ.
Having been expecially zealous, I stuck around till 97
and there were sentences about himself and 'the master of life'
that left no room for doubt about his god like divinity.
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Date: Mon, Jan 25, 1999 at 18:02:32 (EST)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: too embarrased to admit
Subject: old Premie tune....
Message:
YES!! After JM posted Arti I found my brain cycling through it many a time. Like an old tape.

Remember when Durga Ji sang 'Black is the color of my love's hair' (which is an old folkey tune) & remember how they'd sing 'Love Me Tender' at festivals?
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Date: Mon, Jan 25, 1999 at 18:27:06 (EST)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Helen
Subject: old Premie tune....
Message:
Hi Helen,
You wrote:

YES!! After JM posted Arti I found my brain cycling through it many a time. Like an old tape.

A lot of people have complained about this, especially the musicians on the forum. I'm afraid it's an unfortunate side effect of reading this site :).

Remember when Durga Ji sang 'Black is the color of my love's hair' (which is an old folkey tune) & remember how they'd sing 'Love Me Tender' at festivals?

I'm grateful that I wasn't around then - sheesh! Elvis must have been turning over in his grave. BTW, the one that I can't get out of my head is 'Always and Forever'. RT mentioned it once, but that was enough...
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Date: Mon, Jan 25, 1999 at 20:34:40 (EST)
From: Nigel
Email: nigel@redcrow.demon.co.uk
To: Katie
Subject: Yuk, yuk & infinite YUK!
Message:
Jeez, it all comes flooding back in gut-wrenching streams of merrily-tinkling gibberish. It was Marolyn singing 'Love Me Tender' - solo, with cautiously-plucked accoustic geetar. Aaaargh!!! Emotional pornography or what?

Every badly twanged note got the mass-premie heartstrings rooting for her. Then Durga, the four-armed tiger-goddess's voice cracked halfway through the chorus, and - listen to this, if you hadn't heard the song before, well, you wouldn't even know it was coming (Though I'm sure Prem was probably coming in his pants by now...)

Marolyn sang, NOT 'Oh my darling, I love you, and I always will', but - wait for it - 'Oh MAHARAJI, I love you. And I always will....'
There wasn't a dry seat in the house.

The premies wept fucking buckets and leapt for joy, and realising there was a bit more time before 'Last Orders' shouted 'Dance, dance, dance'. Rich Neale even loosened his tie a little and remembered the days when he knew more than three chord changes that weren't stolen from Crosby, Stills and Nash, and cut loose. GMJ eventually - what a tease, hey? - lifted his perfect lardy cheeks from the throne , took two steps forward and waved his arms about a little, happy as pig in shit... Nice flute. Cute crown. Encore etc...

We went home on the bus and looked forward to next time around.

Knowledge Lite and videos suck. Let's have a bit more good old honest-to-goodness camping it up and I might just come back... Toodle-pip.
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Date: Tues, Jan 26, 1999 at 00:57:42 (EST)
From: Gail
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: If Gold Could be Melted and
Message:
Formed into a body,
Yours was the one that was chosen ...
What name can I call you?
What words can I say
That won't fall lifelessly
To the floor
What sculptor could portray
Such an emaculate creation?
Maharaji, my heart wants to wail,
I LOVE YOU, I LOVE YOU, I LOVE YOU, I LOVE YOU.
Thank you for coming today (from Monika)

DAH, DAH, DAH. Can you believe that we used to sing this shit? I swear that I used to get so worked up, I thought my heart (feeling machine) would fly out of my mouth.
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Date: Tues, Jan 26, 1999 at 09:44:30 (EST)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: Gail
Subject: If Gold Could be Melted and
Message:
Is the author of that song, Rich Neal, still in the fold? If he is then I'd challenge him to say that Maharaji isn't the Lord and is just a master.

Maharaji you are the Lord
You've shown us by your word


And when I heard him sing that I remember thinking how blatant it had become and I felt pretty upset because if Maharaji was the Lord then I couldn't feel it.
A few more lines from One Foundation:

Dance with us Lord fill our eyes with your beauty
Dance with us Lord with the music of your love


or something. I have quite a few One Foundation tapes from the seventies.
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Date: Tues, Jan 26, 1999 at 11:18:14 (EST)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: Broken record
Message:
Sir: Everytime you guys start talking about music, I keep 'hearing' a really sickening one. HA, NOW it's MY turn to give you guys something to 'remember....':

Leaving your lotus feet,
oh where would I go....

I am yours alone my Guru Maharaj Ji,
repeat

Please make my surrender complete
repeat

Dah, dah, dah, dee, dee, dee

All out of order, but you get the jist (you OLD guys and gals... he he he :-)
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Date: Tues, Jan 26, 1999 at 13:13:56 (EST)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Mike
Subject: M's sweet sixteenth
Message:
Because of you guys, I just remembered going to Maharaji's 16th birthday party in Atlantic City, which, if I'm doing the math right, was on Dec. 10, 1973. All I recall is that it was a costume party (which was fun), and that we sang the old song 'Sixteen Candles' to him:

Sixteen candles make a lovely light
But not as bright, as your face tonight


Can't remember if they changed any of the words or not (they must have changed the part about You're only 16, but you're my teenage queen), but everyone thought it was WONderful. Does anyone else remember this?
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Date: Tues, Jan 26, 1999 at 13:47:02 (EST)
From: Bobby
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: M's sweet sixteenth
Message:
The sweet 16 party was in New York City, probably around the time you say at a hotel in midtown manhattan. I was up on stage squirting a fire extinguisher. Mata Ji told me to spray the Mahatmas. My friend Raymond was dressed up '50's style as part of a group singing doo-wop.
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Date: Tues, Jan 26, 1999 at 13:58:48 (EST)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Bobby
Subject: M's sweet sixteenth
Message:
Hi Bobby - My memory of those days is cloudy at best. Now I'm thinking that it very well could have been in NYC, as we used to drive up there to see M quite often. The event you are talking about was on the actual birthday, right?
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Date: Tues, Jan 26, 1999 at 14:05:33 (EST)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Bobby
Subject: PS to Bobby
Message:
BTW, Bobby, I distinctly DO remember hearing you give satsang about falling out of the window. I cannot recall where (maybe at the NYC ashram, while waiting around to go to Guru Puja 1973?)
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Date: Tues, Jan 26, 1999 at 14:15:18 (EST)
From: Bobby
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: PS to Bobby
Message:
BTW, Bobby, I distinctly DO remember hearing you give satsang about falling out of the window. I cannot recall where (maybe at the NYC ashram, while waiting around to go to Guru Puja 1973?)

Wow, that's cool. I love connecting with folks who were a part of the scenes I've been into over the years.

In those days I was tentative about giving 'satsang' and occasionally I would. I was always bored by the 'supreme lord maharaji' satsang but loved hearing and discussing experiences I found meaningful.

Personally, the events I experienced associated with my 'falling out of the window' were always especially meaningful. In those days there was no term for 'near-death experience' so I was looking for handles to describe what was for me the most powerful spiritual experience of my life.
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Date: Tues, Jan 26, 1999 at 19:12:57 (EST)
From: dv
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: M's sweet sixteenth
Message:
I went as the grim reaper. Remember John Hess bouncing all over the stage dressed as a rabbit? He said later he never bounced so high in his life.
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Date: Tues, Jan 26, 1999 at 20:08:54 (EST)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: dv
Subject: M's sweet sixteenth
Message:
Oh god, it's all starting to come back to me now... thanks a lot, dv :). I definitely remember John Hess in the rabbit suit on stage.
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Date: Wed, Jan 27, 1999 at 09:34:39 (EST)
From: John
Email: None
To: dv
Subject: M's sweet sixteenth
Message:
Hey, I remember driving up wtih Lenny G. (remember Lenny the accountant?) and, by his grace, we found a parking space right outside the hotel!

I think that was the trip when on the drive back Sam bought an unbelievable number of candy bars and ate them ALL and then proceeded to moan and groan for hours in the back seat.
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Date: Tues, Jan 26, 1999 at 13:32:31 (EST)
From: JW
Email: None
To: Gail
Subject: Rich Neal and the Other Guy
Message:
Oh Gail, how did you remember the words to that song without vomiting? Rich couldn't play or sing, but that didn't stop him.

Rich Neal always seemed to put in more words than the music could accommodate. The man was a true alien. I remember one time a guy I lived in the ashram with was freaking out and had a counseling session with initiator Rich. Afterwards the guy told me Rich could not relate because he had NEVER freaked out. I wonder when it was old Rich got the lobotomy?

Who was the cute little guy from Michigan who became an initiator and sang ALL NIGHT LONG. I lived in two different ashrams with that guy but I can't recall his name. I heard in the early 80s he dumped Maharaji and said Maharaji 'wasn't the only way.' Anyway, the song was equally nauseating.

I suggest that Marolyn deserves some degree of prosecution for her shameless hype at some of those programs. She really played a cynical game at times, in my opinion. I must have repressed the memory of 'love me tender,' probably because of a defense mechanisu to preserve my own sanity.
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Date: Tues, Jan 26, 1999 at 14:05:38 (EST)
From: Victoria
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: Do ya think I'm sexy?
Message:
Does anybody remember Joe Anctil getting in trouble at one of the 1977 Miami festivals for playing Rod Stewart's 'Do ya think I'm sexy?' Something about it not being an appropriate devotee song and if the press got a hold of it, etc., etc.

I mindlessly sang the music for years even after I stopped believing it...I remember once singing at the top of my lungs -- 'How CAN there be ANYone as BEAUTiful as YOU!' from the 'GURU Maharaj Ji, You are my only light, bright as a million suns, the way is clear and bright, and I lo-o-o-ove you, I lo-ove you, I lo-ove you, my Lord' song. I think. Anyway, someone caught me singing it which is why I remember. I was embarassed. 'I can think of a lot of people more beautiful than him,' they said.

I actually tried to get some music from an ex-ashram premie friend but he wouldn't give me any...I think he was afraid I would go to the press or something (my dad was a journalist at the time). We did actually try to get on 20/20 through my dad's connections -- told the
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Date: Tues, Jan 26, 1999 at 20:42:05 (EST)
From: Gail
Email: None
To: Victoria
Subject: Runamok wants one
Message:
but you can have the rest. The Apostles, etc. If anyone just wants the words to a song. I've got it.
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Date: Tues, Jan 26, 1999 at 21:24:43 (EST)
From: Victoria
Email: None
To: Gail
Subject: Thanks anyway
Message:
Don't want them anymore. From time to time, I just clean out and I'm sure I've thrown a lot of that stuff away. I did miss my Supernatural Family Band album that I left at my brother's house. But that was a personal connection.

What would I tell my kids about that music, those lyrics, if they heard me listening to it? It's all so sick. The subjugation of self. I wouldn't choose to listen to it now, just years ago when I was first leaving the cult, I felt a gap.

I just realized my post got cut off. Guess I should preview or something first, huh? Just remembering stuff, you know, lots of stuff I forgot about and other stuff I just wouldn't share in a different group of people. Thanks for being here.

Love,
Victoria
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Date: Tues, Jan 26, 1999 at 22:35:11 (EST)
From: Gail
Email: None
To: Victoria
Subject: Thanks anyway
Message:
I was hoping your jouralist father would print some of the garbage. Of course, you wouldn't want to listen to the garbage-- except for a transcript.
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Date: Wed, Jan 27, 1999 at 11:46:54 (EST)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Victoria
Subject: cut-off posts-technical note
Message:
Hi Victoria (and everyone) -
Brian and I have found that people's posts on the forum get cut off a a certain character limit when they are using Windows 3.1 with Internet Explorer. I'm not sure if the version of Internet Explorer makes any difference. This problem does not occur when using Windows 3.1 and Netscape (which means that the Microsoft Browser is not compatible with the Microsoft operating system...oh well!)

Brian hasn't been able to solve this problem on this end yet, so he recommends that people either get Windows 95 or switch to Netscape if they don't want to have to worry about it. I'm not sure if the preview feature catches this problem (in which case you could just make 2 suceeding posts) - maybe someone could let us know?
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Date: Wed, Jan 27, 1999 at 01:27:15 (EST)
From: JW
Email: None
To: Victoria
Subject: Do ya think I'm sexy?
Message:
At Holi Festival in 1979 they played 'Do You Think I'm Sexy' as one of the songs at the colored-water-spraying nonsense. Anyway the Miami papers picked it up and mentioned they played the song while Maharaji sprayed water half naked in the Orange Bowl.
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Date: Wed, Jan 27, 1999 at 17:54:41 (EST)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Victoria
Subject: Do ya think I'm sexy?
Message:
Ha Ha--I had a similar experience where I was singing a song like that at my job and the accountant told me to knock it off. It's so embarrasing!
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Date: Tues, Jan 26, 1999 at 14:05:56 (EST)
From: John
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: My vote for worst song goes to
Message:
Yeah, when Rich Neal would sing, I'd wanta crawl into a hole and cover my ears. He sort of reminded me of Gordon Lightfoot except of course Gordon actually wrote interesting songs, imho.
The whole cult trip was based on feeling overwhelming devotion for the guru, period! Why oh why did I stay in it for so long?

But my vote for the worst song, imho, was the song about surdas the gardener. Was that the stupidest song ever written or am I just hopelessly insensitive and crude?
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Date: Tues, Jan 26, 1999 at 14:16:52 (EST)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: John
Subject: I think downpour....
Message:
John: Downpour gets my vote as worst of the worst! Bad tune, no lyrics, no beat, can't dance to it! It doesn't get much worse than that!.... he he he :-)

Oh yeah, I forgot the most important part: Charanand can't carry a tune in a bucket.... THERE, top that!
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Date: Tues, Jan 26, 1999 at 14:32:31 (EST)
From: Bobby
Email: None
To: Mike
Subject: I think downpour....
Message:
Actually I liked the concept of 'downpour', a real trippy, psychedelic experience. That's the kind of experience I could relate to. I wanted the experience, not adulation of the 'master'.

With the downpour of the holy name
The Divine Colors began to rain.

-----------------------------------------

I hated 'Lord of the Universe'. We had to sing or listen to the singing of that song over and over at some satsangs. I'm talking like an hour of singing that.

I remember a premie bus trip from NYC to Montreal or Toronto circa 72. Might have been to see Mata Ji. A whole group of us stood outside some kind of high-rise dormatory or apartment building singing Lord of the Universe under overcast skies.
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Date: Tues, Jan 26, 1999 at 14:36:37 (EST)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: Mike
Subject: Even worse...
Message:
If you wanna go to Heaven
Guru Maraji'll take you there,
if you wanna go to Heaven
Guru Maraji'll take you there.
And every day I meditate
And I hope you're not too late
Cos all my sins are taken away.
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Date: Tues, Jan 26, 1999 at 14:46:41 (EST)
From: John
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: Even worse...
Message:
The first time I heard 'Guru maraji you are so big and I am so small, but when you smile you shine for all, you shine for all my Lord' I wanted to puke!

But then, of course, after I had sold my soul to the guru, I too thought it was just expressing an incredibly deep and profound sentiment. And what would that sentiment be? Well, that I am a piece of shit, and the guru is everything great and wonderful and beautiful!
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Date: Tues, Jan 26, 1999 at 14:54:49 (EST)
From: Bobby
Email: None
To: John
Subject: Even worse...
Message:
Yeah, 'you are so big and I am so small' that's another song I hated.

Then Ashokanand made us sing endless refrains of Amazing Grace during a layover at Heathrow on our way to India. I stood on the periphery of the group and then wandered away. Couldn't wait for them to stop. Some devoted premie I was.

.....how sweet the sound that saved a wretch like me.
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Date: Tues, Jan 26, 1999 at 15:11:36 (EST)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Bobby
Subject: You're right, Bobby
Message:
Bobby: Scott and I were a pair of devotees, I'll tell ya! We must have spent too much time coating our veins with cholesterol within the confines of Quality Pie; usually due to boring satsang!..... he he he!
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Date: Tues, Jan 26, 1999 at 20:08:32 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Bobby
Subject: Absolute worst
Message:
That's a tough one but here are some contenders:

1) Rich Neal's 'Dance, Dance, Dance'. Like Joe said, it had the most pedestrian and falt-footed scanning of any song I've ever heard, soppy lyrics and boring guppy vibe. It was a walking devotion test. If you felt alright hearing or singing it you were 'in the pocket' and out of your mind. It sucked.

2) David Andersen's 'Please let me give my hear to you'. After the shock novelty of seeing this guy overemote so shamelessly our minds tickled at the thought that it was maybe still okay to feel a little passion for something. That's all good but still David's song was mercilessly histrionic. It sucked.

3) Most stuff by Jiva. When I heard Jiva I felt confirmed in my opinion of the time that I'd left nothing behind when I dropped secular music. Jiva stood for everything simply dumb and tasteless in rock. They really sucked.

4) That stupid caterpillar song by One Foundation. How dare they trivialize reggae before it's time? Mind you, everything they did started to suck soon enough. They might ahve hit the scene with a little promise but tell me, how much originality can you sustain in a cult? Especially when your cult leader chews you out in public for 'getting into it' too much? Anyway, that song was not only too lame for Teletubbies, it even had it's doctrinal bullshit wrong. Think about it. The blatant moral of the song was that it's best to just live life and not think about it too much. Well, if being told that the secret of life is just under your nose and that the purpose of life is to concentrate on that previously-taken-for-granted breath 25 hours a day is NOT diametrically opposed to that philosophy, then I really didn't get that song. (Another one of those famous misunderstandings, I suppose.)

5) 'I Love you, My Lord (Your Grace is Overflowing)'. Pablum, it sucked AND you could never get the other premies in the back of the bus to stop singing it early enough. It just went on and on and on and on.....

6) 'Maharaji, Maharaji, Your face Shines Lie a 1,000 Suns'. Same as No. 5.

7) Everything by Blue Aquarius. It all sucked, let's not fool ourselves.

8) Almost everything by the Apostles.

9) 'Who is Guru Maharaj Ji?' Yes, I sang it a lot. We all did. It doesn't mean it wasn't way too long, though. We were just in a cult and yes, that song sucked.

10) But here, really, is the undeniably worst song ever written for Maharaji:

And it is Divine Selling And it is Divine

Now here's what I liked:

1) Some of the stuff I wrote. Some of it really sucked too. I'd say about a third was pretty good. Same with some fo the songs by other lesser-known cult artists.

2) The Anand Band's 'Lord of the Universe' album is pretty well great. Yes, even 'Walking Cane'. Listen to this thing now and hear the excited, raw passion of a bunch of young freaks who've found the living Lord living in their breath of all places! I ordered the album from some obscure internet clearing house that had a copy and was pleasantly surprised when I played it.
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Date: Tues, Jan 26, 1999 at 21:42:09 (EST)
From: CD
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: OK music
Message:
>The Anand Band's 'Lord of the Universe' album is pretty well great.

Whats this you say?
The one with King of Kings, Spread This Knowledge and Am F Am F ... Dm C G ...

CD
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Date: Wed, Jan 27, 1999 at 19:03:26 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: CD
Subject: OK music
Message:
Yeah, it's a great album. It breaths, it's alive. This was before the effects of cult-thinking really settled in. We were naively spontaneous and full of love. Boy, I had such goosebumps sitting on the floor in my friend's apartment (having just come back into Vancouver to cash my UI check, ending up a satsang, getting sucked into the cult, flying to Denver, chasing Parlokanand around, getting k in Colorado Springs, rshing home to tell everyone the Lord was here, now staying with my friends who were all coming to satsang) and looking up at that big 'Maharaj Ji is Here and Now' poster.

What a vibe! Mind you, I gave up sex for it. Hmmmm....
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Date: Thurs, Jan 28, 1999 at 18:01:30 (EST)
From: CD
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: OK music
Message:
Am F Am F
Am G F Dm C G
Am G F Dm C G
F G Am
F G Am
Dm C F G
Am F Am F

CD
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Date: Thurs, Jan 28, 1999 at 19:39:17 (EST)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: CD
Subject: OK music
Message:
CD,

Hey, that's something even I could play! What's the words, or does one size fit all?

PS Ask Jim about my bass guitar playing skills

Jim: (shouting) now go to 'D'!
Gerry: D-D-D-Duh, which thingy do ya push down for a D?
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Date: Wed, Jan 27, 1999 at 01:21:00 (EST)
From: JW
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Absolute worst
Message:
There was a lot of bad stuff, but to me the worst absolute drek song ever was:

When I was a little child
Maya made my mind run wild
Then Guru Maharaj Ji smiled
And nightime turned to day

So rock me Maharaj Ji
And roll me tonight
Rock me Maharaj Ji
And say it's all riiiiiiiiiiiight
It's all riiiiiiiight

Absolutly sucks, stinks, and has all kinds of sexual innuendo.
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Date: Wed, Jan 27, 1999 at 09:25:04 (EST)
From: John
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: The greatest song of all time!
Message:
C'mon Joe say it aint so! You didn't like 'Rock me Maraji'? What did you have - a heart of stone?
That was the premie national anthem! That was absolutely the greatest smash hit of all time!
That song allowed us to tell the whole sordid story and then open our hearts and mouths and scream:
'And Say it's all righhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhT!'

I always thought that line implied that in fact, everything was NOT all right.

btw the line:
'maya made my mind run wild'
has alliteration, an actual verifiable literary device used to catch one's attention.
We're talking real quality songwriting here!!
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Date: Wed, Jan 27, 1999 at 16:41:55 (EST)
From: JW
Email: None
To: John
Subject: The greatest song of all time!
Message:
Well John, in truth 'Rock Me Maharaji' was only the premie national anthem for a couple of years. I don't recall it ever being sung after about 1975. Besides being stupid and without any real melody, the song also really reminds me of Millennium, strawberry and patchouli incense, the smell and look of India-cotton bedspreads and clothes, Earth Shoes, polyester suits, Dodge Darts with engines the size of lawn mowers, bags of raisins and cashews, and candy bars that tasted like compressed sawdust. All stuff that I really would rather forget.

But, basically, the song just really, really sucked.

I also agree with you that Jiva really sucked, but, mercifully, that group only lasted for a short while.
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Date: Fri, Jan 29, 1999 at 00:24:54 (EST)
From: Gail
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: Songs are still sung today.
Message:
That song was sung until 1983 and revived at the anniversary programs in 1996. In fact, all the old songs got a retread at those programs. Now, all the ones with direct reference to the 'Lord' are played as instrumentals on CD but with the words live. The one exception is Arti in instrumental only.

There we all were, swaying and waving our arms in the air. How embarrassing.
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Date: Wed, Jan 27, 1999 at 16:25:53 (EST)
From: ham
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: JW, spot on, sorry John
Message:
The dregs, total embarrassment, even the worst nightmare parent would have been embarrassed by anything so un-rock & roll
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Date: Thurs, Jan 28, 1999 at 12:49:16 (EST)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: Absolute worst
Message:
Yes JW I thooughly agree. That song definitely had all the sleaze.
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Date: Wed, Jan 27, 1999 at 11:05:58 (EST)
From: John
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: You're being a bit harsh
Message:
Let's face it, we were doing our best to pass eternity with the Living Lord and trying to make it not too totally boring.
You didn't like Foxfire by Blue Aquarius? Now, I have not heard that song in 25 years, but I remember thinking it was very cool.

I agree with you about 'Who is Guru Maharaj JI'
It did stink, I think we all thought it was such a profound question that we just figured we had to sing the song over and over.

Jiva, oh god, please. I remember I tried to play that for one of my older brothers. He listened politely to a song and a half and then freaked, and said, this was total bullshit and if I didn't get it off the record player immediately he was going to break it.

Yeah, I blame the Anand Band for even getting me into the cult in the first place, I really dug that music. I think the cult music really deteriorated with One Foundation, especially after they got rid of that maniac lead guitarist. It just became so mellow and uninspired and weepy devotional.
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Date: Wed, Jan 27, 1999 at 18:03:28 (EST)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: John
Subject: Smash the records
Message:
HA HA I busted up reading what your brother said. Bwaa ha ha
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Date: Wed, Jan 27, 1999 at 18:58:41 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Helen
Subject: Kim and Jim
Message:
That poor miserable girl is still in the videos, if you haven't noticed. She's singing backup to some plump girl I've never seen before. And happy? Was she ever? NO, stupid, she was sincere! You have your choice, you know. Kim chose sincerity.

Hey, for you new guys, would you liek to read the lyrics to the song I wrote the day I moved into the ashram? It's really kind of a pretty tune. Goes like this:

Maharaj Ji's Here

All our life
We've been asleep
In a dream of time
An endless search
For the Love
Lying right behind

Do you fear
A little child
With a heart of gold?
Can you really
Be so old?

Open your heart
And hear your heart
Calling you
To the birth of creation
The heart
of Satguru

Satchinand
Eternal Bliss
Is who we are
And by his infinite grace
We turn towards his star

Maharaj Ji's here
And He's giving His love
It's the secret of life
Lay yourself down before Him
Bathe in His ocean of love and light


Fly on the wings
of His holy name
It's so strong and true
To the birth of creation
The heart of satguru

Leave your darkened Do you fear
A little child
With a heart of gold?
Can you really
Be so old

Open your heart
And hear your heart
Calling you
To the birth of creation
The heart
of Satguru

Maharaj Ji's here
And He's giving His love
It's the secret of life
Lay yourself down before Him
Bathe in His ocean of love and light


(Repeat chorus with eyes closed for about ten rep's)
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Date: Wed, Jan 27, 1999 at 22:21:03 (EST)
From: P
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: God, that is soooooooooooo
Message:
absolutely beautiful, Jim. My God, thank you brother, thank you, Jai sat chit anand!
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Date: Thurs, Jan 28, 1999 at 11:23:04 (EST)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Hey Jim
Message:
Jim: I must say that your lyrics were/would have been 'inspiring.' I can say , in my own humble way, that yours are among the very best that I've ever read (seriously!)! I'm amazed that you weren't picked-up as one of the 'elite' musicians; for his holy pleasure, ya know. I would have liked to here the music that you put it to.
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Date: Thurs, Jan 28, 1999 at 12:19:22 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: correction
Message:
Leave your darkened Do you fear
A little child
With a heart of gold?
Can you really
Be so old


Should be:

'Leave your darkened thoughts behind
They'll never serve you
What you want, what you need
Is the love of satguru'

(Thanks Mike and you're welcome P)
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Date: Wed, Jan 27, 1999 at 16:05:53 (EST)
From: ham
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Absolute worst
Message:
7) Everything by Blue Aquarius. It all sucked, let's not fool ourselves

Foxfire was all right. Saw the album for sale under the soul section in a 2nd hand shop last year. Two months later Howie.B had a big hit over here, where the major sample used sounded remarkably like the horn riff from Foxfire.

Re Anand band, good stuff couldn't agree more. So obvious they were dropping acid hardly anyvtime beforehand.
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Date: Wed, Jan 27, 1999 at 16:09:18 (EST)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: ham
Subject: Absolute worst
Message:
ham:

'So obvious they were dropping acid hardly anyvtime beforehand.'

Talk about cynical....... he he he he he he :-)

Actually, you are probably closer to the truth than we could possibly imagine..... he he he :-)
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Date: Tues, Jan 26, 1999 at 15:08:14 (EST)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: John
Subject: I'll second that
Message:
John: If I remember correctly, that song was written by a really young kid, wasn't it? 'And tho the sun may die and the moon may fall, I will always love you forever....'
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Date: Tues, Jan 26, 1999 at 15:39:58 (EST)
From: John
Email: None
To: Mike
Subject: question for you Mike
Message:
I thought it was written by Suzy Bai. Whoever the hell Suzy Bai was. We had a discussion about Suzy Bai last year on this thread, and I realized that I was totally confused about her identity.

Hey Mike, btw, do you remember a guy named Tadd who lived in Phoenix? Do you remember his last name? I'd like to try and locate him, I gave him something of mine, and I've always wondered if I could get it back. Hell, it was only 23 years ago!
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Date: Tues, Jan 26, 1999 at 15:50:35 (EST)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: John
Subject: Answer?
Message:
John: Yes, I remember Tadd... kinda light-brown colored hair (real wavy?) and short height, right? Unfortunately, I don't have any idea what his last name is, but I'll see if I can find out. I still have some contacts out here (if they don't put two and two together from this post).
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Date: Tues, Jan 26, 1999 at 15:59:44 (EST)
From: John
Email: None
To: Mike
Subject: Answer?
Message:
Yeah, that's the guy, you have contacts from the Phoenix glory days? Who are your contacts? If you don't mind my being so nosy!
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Date: Tues, Jan 26, 1999 at 16:46:13 (EST)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: John
Subject: Answer?
Message:
John: I'll email you.
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Date: Tues, Jan 26, 1999 at 19:23:39 (EST)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Mike
Subject: I'm nosy too
Message:
You must know the famous McDermotts.
And how about this schizo guy, names Jerry. Grey ponytail.
Heavyset.
Produces 'music' tapes?
He has this uniquesess in my mind (other than seeing dinosaurs coming out of the pond at that Kissemee place or wherever that gawdy stage was. He sent the EARLIEST threatening late notice on a bill I have ever gotten!!!!!!!!!
The tape sucked too Jerry if you are reading.
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Date: Wed, Jan 27, 1999 at 10:15:27 (EST)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: I'm nosy too
Message:
Selene: Yeah, I know the McDermott clan (not personally). I don't remember Jerry, but that should be no great surprise. Remember, I was 'out of town' for 22 years.... Came back occasionally (on leave) but wasn't interested in satsang...duh! :-)
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Date: Tues, Jan 26, 1999 at 21:52:19 (EST)
From: CD
Email: None
To: John
Subject: Answer?
Message:
>Yeah, that's the guy, you have contacts from the Phoenix glory days?

Rourke is after you.
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Date: Tues, Jan 26, 1999 at 22:52:07 (EST)
From: Tadd (just kidding)
Email: None
To: John
Subject: Just a 'Tadd' light-fingered
Message:
Have you ever noticed how many premies have borrowed things and either never returned them or returned them damaged?
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Date: Tues, Jan 26, 1999 at 16:36:32 (EST)
From: y?
Email: None
To: Mike
Subject: Suzi Bai
Message:
Suzy Bai was a young women that set off to India in 1970 on her way to meet Tibetan Lamas etc. in the Himalayas.

She was not impressed with the premies she travelled with. They were always being holier than thou to her way of thinking. She said they thought they were more evolved than she was but maybe that was just the way she interpreted it....Anyway as soon as she hit Prem Nagar Ashram and met Maharaji she didn't leave although later she did. The last time I heard she was making documentaries....

Where are you Suzy Bai?.
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Date: Tues, Jan 26, 1999 at 19:30:24 (EST)
From: dv
Email: None
To: y?
Subject: Suzi Bai
Message:
I last saw Suzy Bai at C.O.L.L. I was entranced by her singing- I hope she is doing okay.
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Date: Wed, Jan 27, 1999 at 01:01:39 (EST)
From: Jethro
Email: None
To: dv
Subject: Suzi Bai
Message:
Hello dv

I met Suzi Bai in the early 80s when she came to stay at my home becuase she was attending a premie program in London(UK).
I remember tellimg her that I had kept all the videos of prempal from the 70s and asked her if she thouyght it was ok. She told me that she was prem's librarian in the USA and that it was ok.

I also have a tape of heer singing arti and other songs.

Anyway I don'yt know where ehe is, but have a feeling she has escaped the life -sucking cult.

Regards from Jethro
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Date: Wed, Jan 27, 1999 at 01:17:42 (EST)
From: JW
Email: None
To: dv
Subject: Suzi Bai
Message:
dv,

Suzie Bai Whitten lived at COLL for awhile, kind of as a punishment, I think. So were you at COLL? Do I know you?
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Date: Wed, Jan 27, 1999 at 23:02:39 (EST)
From: dv
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: Suzi Bai
Message:
Yea- F and I used to play ping pong all night.
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Date: Thurs, Jan 28, 1999 at 13:00:01 (EST)
From: JW
Email: None
To: dv
Subject: Suzi Bai
Message:
F. Attems (sp?)? Ping pong all night? Hmmm. What was the time period you were at COLL?

I know F was kind of eurotrash, but I always thought he was a very nice guy. I remember after I got to San Francisco, I was very freaked out after being in Miami, felt suicidal much of the time, and I succombed to the invitation of one of the sisters in the ashram and had a brief affair, for which I felt supremely guilty.

Anyhow, I talked to F a lot about it and he was very supportive. After he left San Francisco on tour as an initiator, he used to call me from other towns to see if I was doing okay. He was one of the very few premies I met who actually seemed to care about me as a human being.
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Date: Thurs, Jan 28, 1999 at 15:11:46 (EST)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: to JW
Message:
dv and I know each other too, JW - I think you and I talked about this.

P.S. Glad you're still around, and I can relate to your story.
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Date: Tues, Jan 26, 1999 at 15:36:30 (EST)
From: Victoria
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: Even worse...
Message:
Dear Sir,

The way I remember it...

If you wanna go to Heaven
Guru Maraji takes you there,
if you wanna go to Heaven
Guru Maraji takes you there.
If you wanna go to Heaven,
don't you die in despair,
Guru Maraji will take you there.
All my sins are taken away.

Now hand me down...
my walkin' cane...

etc., etc.

=)

Victoria
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Date: Tues, Jan 26, 1999 at 19:07:21 (EST)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: Victoria
Subject: Even worse...
Message:
How could I forget that bit. As it happens, that song's so bad it's good. Kind of catchy and I can hear the sisters doing the backing vocals even as I write...
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Date: Tues, Jan 26, 1999 at 21:39:03 (EST)
From: Victoria
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: Even worse...
Message:
it is actually an old country spiritual that premies just sort of ripped off and added their own verse to. As I understand it.

=)

I like those old spirituals, don't you? Amazing Grace being one of my faves.

Love,

Victoria

P.S. eagerly awaiting your new site...you're the greatest!
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Date: Wed, Jan 27, 1999 at 09:34:19 (EST)
From: Sir Dave
Email: david.studio57@btinternet.com
To: Victoria
Subject: Even worse...
Message:
Oh so that's what it is. Change the words and it would be a good singalong song. Thanks, Victoria, the new site will be up within a week. It will have contact ads for different countries and for the whole world plus a help section. Is there anyone who may want to be refered to in case someone is desperate for help or someone to talk to? I'm thinking that a number of people could be listed as support people and they could be emailed by anyone needing help. And if anyone wants to talk on the phone then that could be arranged too.

It's all going to happen soon and as the Internet use expands, all those people we used to know will be there to make contact with. I'm in contact with a software company at present, trying to find the best software to use. I need modifyable databases with the facility do do a search by name etc.
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Date: Tues, Jan 26, 1999 at 21:48:55 (EST)
From: CD
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: Even worse...
Message:
>Kind of catchy and I can hear the sisters doing the backing vocals even as I write...

Thats because you heard them live. I heard them live in London in 1972. Their sound could give you a great feeling. I remember once experiencing being alive in a whole new way while listening to the voice of the female lead singer hitting some beautiful high notes. I was quite suprised by the transformation and still remember the event.

CD
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Date: Tues, Jan 26, 1999 at 19:17:33 (EST)
From: dv
Email: None
To: John
Subject: My vote for worst song goes to
Message:
M told Rich he sounded like Gordon Lightfoot and should start his own band. Now that would have been interesting...
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Date: Tues, Jan 26, 1999 at 20:48:43 (EST)
From: Gail
Email: None
To: John
Subject: Plucked out his eyes, he did!
Message:
For the fake K, no less.
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Date: Tues, Jan 26, 1999 at 14:57:46 (EST)
From: John
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: Hilarious!!! (nt)
Message:
x
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Date: Tues, Jan 26, 1999 at 22:17:57 (EST)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: old Premie tune....
Message:
Why does it give me the same uncomfortable feeling I had when I saw Marilyn Monroe singing Happy Birthday to President Kennedy?
--not quite parallel experiences but both made me very uncomfortable!! Cause I guess in both situations someone (the blonde) was being used big time!
Helen
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