Ex-Premie.Org |
Forum III Archive # 36 | |
From: Jan 21, 1999 |
To: Feb 2, 1999 |
Page: 1 Of: 5 |
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Date: Thurs, Jan 28, 1999 at 19:35:52 (EST)
From: Maharaji Email: None To: Everyone Subject: I am Merlin the Magician Message: 'In all of us there is a King Arthur, and in all of us there is the magic land. And in all of us, in that magic land, spring has gone. And that King Arthur within us has commanded the knights who are also within us to look, to search for the chalice. And there are knights within us who ride with great pride . . . with great loyalty . . . looking for that magic chalice. Looking for that magic answer. And you, my friend, are the observer of this story unfolding. In you this story is unfolding. Let there be a Merlin in your life who can guide you to where the magic chalice is, because then the contentment of that fulfilment will be yours. Is there a magic chalice inside of you? You bet! And will the spring come to your land within? Of course.' Maharaji, Montreal, June 1990 Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jan 28, 1999 at 20:30:49 (EST)
From: Sir David Email: david.studio57@btinternet.com To: Maharaji Subject: I am Merlin the Magician Message: King Arthur, the Knights of the Round Table and Merlin the Wizard are all myth and never really happened. It's a fairy story and it does bring in the tourists to Tintagel Castle, Cornwall where they've got a nice round table and suits of armour everywhere. It's all a myth and fairy story. So too is 'Knowledge'. Why would the majority of people who've received it have nothing to do with it, years later. Premies themselves don't believe the myth which is why they have to keep listening to their master in order to convince them that their lives have meaning. So spread your myth but you won't find any takers here. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jan 28, 1999 at 23:26:46 (EST)
From: Mel Bourne Email: mbvictoria@hotmail.com To: Sir David Subject: Mixing up myths and facts Message: hi there SIR David A few points... 1. ...are all myth and never really happened.... I understand that most myths are based on true and actual events and take the 'fantasic' qualities while being distorted by the constant retelling over generations. It's widely beleived that King Arthur actually existed, but maybe not quite in 'Morte d'Arthur' mode. 2. ...So too is 'Knowledge'. Why would the majority of people who've received it have nothing to do with it, years later... Quite a sweeping statement don't you think, David? What objective source do you base your statistics on. Has some one done some verifiable statistical research on numbers receiving knowledge and later having 'nothing to do with it'? Please quote your sources. 3. ...Premies themselves don't believe the myth which is why they have to keep listening to their master in order to convince them that their lives have meaning... I would disagree with this, I think most premies listen to M in order to get the inspiration to continuing the practice. Some I guess, may need convincing that their lives have meaning, but I suspect that it may be far fewer than you think. Again, another sweeping statement of 'ex premie' opinion and myth masquarading as 'fact' regards Mel Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jan 28, 1999 at 23:40:13 (EST)
From: gerry Email: None To: Mel Boring Subject: Mixing up myths and facts Message: I understand that most myths are based on true and actual events Please state your sources, Sir boring. Has some one done some verifiable statistical research on numbers receiving knowledge Good question, Mr Boring. Where does Goober get his preposterous numbers? Some I guess, may need convincing that their lives have meaning, So, what does it take to convince you that you are really the boring, repetitious asshole you present yourself as being? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jan 29, 1999 at 01:13:38 (EST)
From: Jethro Email: None To: gerry Subject: Mixing up myths and facts Message: 'So, what does it take to convince you that you are really the boring, repetitious asshole you present yourself as being?' Some people just love getting beaten up. This guy must be a masochist. I think it's to do with the loop followers of prempal are caught in. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jan 29, 1999 at 09:57:39 (EST)
From: Mel Bourne Email: None To: gerry Subject: Mixing up myths and hatred Message: Hi Gerry Thanks for your typical response. Doesn't seem as though you've changed a bit over the last few months. The same old intolerance based on your obsessive Maharaji and premie hatred - as usual. Didn't anyone tell you that hatred is destructive and generally has the capability to destroy the hater? Regards Mel Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jan 29, 1999 at 10:00:08 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: Mel Bourne Subject: Mixing up myths and hatred Message: Mel: It's nice to see that you haven't changed one iota, either: Still as obtuse as ever!!! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jan 29, 1999 at 10:13:59 (EST)
From: Mel Bourne Email: None To: Mike Subject: Mixing up myths and hatred Message: Hi Mike We all have our faults. I'd much rather be obtuse than riddled with such cancerous hatred. BTW. seems as though good old Uncle Sam stuffed up in Iraq badly this time (or was it Richard Butler's fault?) Mel Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jan 29, 1999 at 10:59:59 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: Mel Bourne Subject: Mixing up hatred with disdain Message: Mel: I think you may be misusing/misunderstanding the word, 'hatred.' Disdain for M and what he represents (and what he's done to people) is one thing, hatred is something completely different. To my way of seeing things, no one here has displayed anything even close to hatred (except some premies that threatened a few of us). Mel, tsk tsk tsk.... why are you trying to bait me with Iraq talk, huh? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jan 30, 1999 at 04:19:09 (EST)
From: Mel Bourne Email: None To: Mike Subject: Mixing up hatred with Iraq Message: Mike I accept your contention that some 'ex's' may have disdain for M rather than hatred. However, one ex in particular has roundly asserted his HATRED for M and premies, and that's Jim. People like Gerry and others seem to follow suit..... Would I bait you, Mike? In my opinion there was some justification for US involvement in Iraq in your tour of duty, ie the ejection of Iraqi forces from Kuwait. On this occassion the missile attacks seem to be counterproductive, as it has set back the whole Iraqi inspection process, especially now as there seems to be some verification of the long running Iraqi claim that UNSCOM was used by the US for espionage purposes. A lot of people find that situation distainful and sympathise with Iraq, especially as it coincided with your President's impeachment vote to the day (or was it the day before?) Mel Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jan 30, 1999 at 08:13:36 (EST)
From: bill Email: None To: Mel Bourne Subject: Mixing up hatred with Iraq Message: they bombed iraq because they had the chance or excuse. clearly the reason is because the year 2000 changes and the global positioning satellite change in august will make the c5a, f15,f14, and the tomahawk missle and 12,000 other defense dept global psoitioning sattelite needing systems wont be working. another insider tip is that prem rawat was not accurate when he said he was the lord and had the authority to order us around\ and tell us how to live and how to relate to and view our families and life in general. you insult and abuse me when you give a false smilie face view of how he has behaved. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jan 30, 1999 at 10:14:44 (EST)
From: Sir Dave Email: None To: bill Subject: Mixing up baked beans Message: Bill; there was a theory going around that they had to lose a load of missile because they were fairly old and they didn't know how they would react to the year 2000 bug. So they fired them at Iraq to get rid of them. I don't know if it's true. Also Bill, if you're stocking up on tinned food, be careful about the salt content of the food. Some tinned food contains a lot of salt which is not good for anyone, particularly if that's their main diet for a while. Go for no sugar and salt baked beans but with an occasional treat of the normal sugar/salt added beans. They'll help keep you regular too. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jan 30, 1999 at 12:13:17 (EST)
From: Scott T. Email: None To: Sir Dave Subject: Mixing up baked beans Message: Dave: Why wouldn't you just buy dried beans and cook them yourself? All you need is a pressure cooker and a heat source. Less weight, expense, additives, and you can season to taste. I have a great recipe for 'Pinto Bean Sludge,' although you have to be careful to remove the gravel before eating. -Scott Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jan 30, 1999 at 13:29:39 (EST)
From: bill Email: None To: Scott T. Subject: Mixing up baked beans Message: If you have a dog, better think about that. I have some cans but I am like scott with the grains and beans. By the way Sir David, Her majesty's sunny kingdom was rationing from before ww2-1955! I figure there were more farmers in england then and a lot less people. Care to move to Conn? We have more land mass and lots more food produceing areas. The ships are not going to be available in great numbers all of a sudden and some of them will be out of luck as early as august 22 when the g.p.s. changes over. Why dont you come over for a visit and just stay? You are on the wrong island and where is your long term protien source? Argentina and brazil right? It is common knowledge that brazil will not have a phone system in 11 months. That and the ship problem will make things just a tad difficult for royalty and commoner alike. I know you love your family. England is a tiny overcrowded island and trouble is heading your way. Mel bourne wont be posting much for a while himself because thier biggest telephone company has spent all of 11% of thier y2k budget for last year. It's tough to replace all your equipment when the company you order from is booked solid and you are waiting with a ticket stub like the meat market hands out when there is a line at the meat counter at the store. Senator Bennet, head of the senate y2k commitee, on 1-27-99 excuse me 1-27-1999, said 'y2k is indeed an event that has potentially massive and unpredictable economic, social, and geopolitical ramifications.' 'we must look at each component of the problem and act rationally to find acceptable solutions.' Any of you Brits are welcome to come to Conn. Think about it. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jan 30, 1999 at 14:23:58 (EST)
From: Sir Dave Email: None To: bill Subject: Housemother's hidden treats Message: Conneticut doesn't seem like a bad place to be, expecially if Saddam Hussain ever gets an anthrax bomb to reach London. I'll keep that in mind. Thanks Bill. I remember well the sudden wince of pain as the standard ashram dall was eaten and one suddenly bit into a rock which had been lurking unseen amongst the lentils. Our housemother in Stoke ashram used to think it was really funny every time another one of us would scream out in agony through chewing on her hidden treats. The reason why I was considereing tinned food was because of a possible water shortage here in Britain. Believe it or not, we do have a water shortage already in some parts of the country and come 2000 the taps might become dry. You don't need water to cook tinned food over a primus stove and any water which has been stockpiled could be used for drinking only. In the cities, where most of us live, a water shortage could become a very serious thing and that eventualy must be considered. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jan 30, 1999 at 17:23:55 (EST)
From: Scott T. Email: None To: Sir Dave Subject: Brian, I lost my text!! Message: Brian: For some reason if I hit 'submit' and get any sort of error message I can't hit the back button to recover my post and correct it. I get a blank text box, with the old subject line. Also, I got an error message saying that my subject was too long, although it fit in the box fine. Shucks, down the drain. -Scott Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jan 30, 1999 at 22:18:25 (EST)
From: bill Email: None To: Sir Dave Subject: Housemother's hidden treats Message: I dont think I posted this on the forum. I called my local water company and said 'hello this is bill burke from the american water works association, did you have a chance to fill out our survey on y2k yet?' they put me through to the head guy on y2k and he said 'well, it didn't cross my desk.' so I asked him if he would answer a few of the questions over the phone, he agreed. his answers; They started looking at thier y2k vulnerability in 1998. They are not through assessing thier situation yet. They have fixed nothing yet. that was december 1998. The AWWA is the main association of the largest 4,000 water suppliers in the usa and they service 204 million people. There are 51,000 suppliers handleing the other 50 million or so americans. The AWWA sent out a questionaire and repeatedly requested the 4,000 to respond. Only 750 did and only 450 of those said they would be ready on time. I found a farmer nearby that has a well and I rented land from him and have water rights to the well and If I was to live and stay in england, I would have a plan to live by a well by the ocean where I could fish. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Feb 01, 1999 at 15:03:49 (EST)
From: Tanya Email: None To: Sir Dave Subject: you sick Jerk S'D Message: You pathetic creep....you are just as much an arsehole as Saddam is....care to think of the two million Iraqis who have died of the sanctions you wimp....or u dont have enough of a micro brain to even contemplate that...or maybe they are just brownies that u sick jerk care to be so smudge...Anyway a jurk and a pleb like u from stoke would say things that are so unintelliegent and irrational......Even M has more compasion then all of you jerks put together...He is not racist..and not facist and sane compared with all the dump and stupid things on here..... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Feb 01, 1999 at 15:30:59 (EST)
From: gerry Email: None To: Tanya and Dave luv4ever! Subject: Post of the Day! Message: God, I love it! Another (presumed) premie semi-literate strikes again. Dave, was it something you said? I can't quite make the connections Tanya does, but then I'm not a devotee of the Living Perfect Master, Lord of Compassion, Promoter of Sanity and Healthy living. You pathetic creep....you are just as much an arsehole as Saddam is....care to think of the two million Iraqis who have died of the sanctions you wimp....or u dont have enough of a micro brain to even contemplate that...or maybe they are just brownies that u sick jerk care to be so smudge...Anyway a jurk and a pleb like u from stoke would say things that are so unintelliegent and irrational......Even M has more compasion then all of you jerks put together...He is not racist..and not facist and sane compared with all the dump and stupid things on here..... Yeah, Dave, quit being so ''smudge.'' Ha ha ha! You ''jurk!'' Ha ha ha! Quit saying those ''dump'' and stupid things! Ha ha ha! Have a little more ''compasion!'' Ha ha ha! You are so ''unintelliegent!'' Ha ha ha! So stop all that ''dump and stupid'' talk ya ''jurk''. Ha ha ha! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Feb 01, 1999 at 15:43:15 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: gerry Subject: Remember 'vietnam steve?' Message: gerry: I think this is his more 'stable' sibling.... Well, maybe not quite THAT stable! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Feb 01, 1999 at 15:33:58 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: Tanya Subject: you sick Jerk S'D Message: Tanya: My, my, my, did we get up on the wrong side of the bed? Since you made the statement, YOU tell US: How many humanitarian things had M done lately? Tell me about the organizations that he sponsors. Tell me how many people that he's fed. What percentage of his income is used in ANY humanitarian effort? Come on, Tanya...tell us. We're waiting with baited breath! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Feb 01, 1999 at 18:44:24 (EST)
From: Gail Email: None To: Tanya Subject: Tanya Tucker, I presume Message: All you need is a guitar and a one-way trip to Nashville. You already have your lyrics written. Jeez, Tanya, Sir David was only making a joke. Of course, things are always dreadful whenever a power-mongering little twit starts prancing around like a god. If you stop to consider it, So Damned Insane and MJ are very similar. The only real difference is that SDI has control over an entire country. MJ only controls a few hundred thousand world wide (he would like to broaden his horizons, but the GRACE IS MISSING). Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Feb 01, 1999 at 20:33:31 (EST)
From: Scott T. Email: None To: Tanya Subject: More than you deserve, Tanya. Message: Tanya: I sincerely regret that you feel this way about David's comments. I should think that removing pebbles from a bean dish is an acceptable approach to our mineral and legume shortage. In the unlikely event that your comments refer, instead, to David's statement about an anthrax bomb I should point out that since anthrax starts as a bovine disease increasing the consumption of beans would reduce the number of vectors available to spread an epidemic beyond the initial point of attack. Seriously, David is not implicated in the sanctions against Iraq, which is the only way the world has of attempting to counter the control of an absolute authoritarian and accomplished fraidy cat. The dilemma is that if people don't demand popular sovereignty then they may still reap the whirlwind sown by their leader. This is one of the great tragedies of authoritarian control. I assure you that if our elected authorities could find Saddam to hold him accountable for his misdeeds, and for the very real threat he poses to people far beyond the borders of his sorry domain, they would surely relieve the Iraqis of their burden. In the mean time all we can do is impose sanctions in the hope that they will at least slow him down, and spend billions in a civil defense effort called 'homeland defense.' It is a rude tradeoff, and you've a right to feel offended by it. But, David is not to blame, and his concerns about a biological weapon of mass destruction are not 'dump.' -Scott Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jan 30, 1999 at 13:52:13 (EST)
From: Gerry Email: None To: Mel Bourne Subject: Mixing up hatred with Goober Message: Dear Liar Bore Mel, Yes I do disdain you as you came here hoping to deceive everyone, and no I don't hate Goober...well maybe I do at that, and yes, Jim taught me and I'm his number one devotee now, although the Master has been witholding his grace lately, I haven't been invited back to BC, although Laurie did e-mail me (Laurie thanks for that and I owe you a reply) and said we should have another 'lost weekend'' in Victoria sometime, which I agreed with and am practicing my bass guitar playing for, so I can figure out where the ''D'' note is and won't get stuck again, but I never was a great follower, especially to Goober, but I think I'm getting better, don't you Mel, you fuck head? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sun, Jan 31, 1999 at 11:31:02 (EST)
From: bill Email: None To: mel Subject: of course I hate him! Message: What, I should just let the hate feature I have been born with be for some other less worthy target? rawat gets my portion of hate and malice and also my continued life dedication. I am his still. Only instead of this pretend love only of the fake lord, He gets the genuine hate combined with intent to destroy. OK with YOU mel? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sun, Jan 31, 1999 at 13:12:06 (EST)
From: Rick Email: None To: bill Subject: of course I hate him! Message: Right on, Bill. Hate is underrated. Rick Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Feb 01, 1999 at 08:01:48 (EST)
From: Mel Bourne Email: None To: bill Subject: of course I hate him! Message: It's your life, bill Mel Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Feb 01, 1999 at 08:24:46 (EST)
From: bill Email: None To: Mel Bourne Subject: what is worse than hate? this Message: It was your idea that we what we are doing here is in the hate catagory. I think you miss all the fun if you think that. We are the only ones that are doing anything to counter a large amount of work happening to portray prem rawat as saviour/master of life. The revising of history is the complete intent of the pulicity arm of elan vital and the web sites. To polish him up as purity is way worse than hate. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Feb 01, 1999 at 09:17:20 (EST)
From: Mel Bourne Email: None To: bill Subject: what is worse than hate? this Message: I think you miss all the fun.... Bill I can assure you, I'm NOT missing any fun at all!!! Mel Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Feb 01, 1999 at 10:57:19 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: Mel Bourne Subject: if it isn't fun, then why Message: Mel: Why do you come here if it isn't fun for you? Why don't the premies take their own advice and just WALK? We don't need premie participation to validate this forum nor do premies actually contribute ANYTHING REAL to it. They have and do threaten, they do supply examples of cult-speak and cult behavior, so all is not lost. But if YOU don't like it, then WALK! It's that simple.... remove the url from your browser and 'we' will just go away! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, Feb 02, 1999 at 05:38:50 (EST)
From: Mel Bourne Email: None To: Mike Subject: if it isn't fun, then why Message: Mike I think you misunderstood what I said to Bill, probably because of the poor way I phrased that response What I meant was, I am having fun contributing here, and premies do actually contribute something here (with varying degrees of success of course) and that is a CHALLENGE to the entrenched 'ex' views that are boringly repeated on this site. Mel Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, Feb 02, 1999 at 09:47:59 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: Mel Bourne Subject: Ok then, lets' have some fun Message: Mel: Great! I just hope some of the 'other' premies take their master's advice and WALK, IF they aren't having fun here. Threats and stupid posts like Tanya's are really useless. Challenge away, Mel. Just remember, premies 'invented' the words 'entrenched views.' :-) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Feb 01, 1999 at 16:06:32 (EST)
From: bill Email: None To: Mel Bourne Subject: ok Mel, +Mike the MP Message: Heck, you dont have to see what humor I do here. I don't think we are here because we 'longed' to talk about prem rawat again. I do think it is good to have all available parts of the history for those that want to learn about prem rawat's full history. We dont show all the parts, but we are not needed to play elan vital's chosen role. If you want to have association with (and work for free at the amaroo site), of prem rawats long running show, who is to stop you or worry that -there is a christian missing (you) or maybe you were a muslim. I have thought, does it matter? And I have decided 'yes'. The indian/hindu/guru/buddhist view has a lot of drawbacks and there is a saying 'all it takes for bad men to take over is for good men/women to do nothing to stop them' or something like that. Of course the way life goes, wrong headed guys tend to have a self destruct feature, but thier effect is minimized by those that are willing to stand and say 'hold it right there buddy'. Or whatever Mike the MP would say. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Feb 01, 1999 at 10:12:27 (EST)
From: Helen Email: None To: Mel Bourne Subject: Mixing up hatred Message: What's wrong with hatred anyway? I mean seriously? Do you really think that if I hate Maharaji I will get cancer? I don't believe that for a moment. Perhaps obsessing over my hatred for Maharaji could make me ill, but all of us have left him and are not obsessing, we're merely expressing which is good for the mind and body. From all the happiness studies I have read about, having a sense of control over one's life is integral to happiness & health, so I'd wager that we're all a whole lot healthier now than we were as premies. (Besides a lot of ashram premies felt guilty going to the doctor when they were sick because they'd be using ashram funds--how crazy is that?) On the other hand, breathing dangerous chemicals a la DECCA will give you cancer in a hurry. Have a groovy day Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, Feb 02, 1999 at 05:48:36 (EST)
From: Mel Bourne Email: None To: Helen Subject: Mixing up hatred Message: Hi Helen I believe there is some medical opinion that the hormones/chemicals generated by hatred and anger can lead to bad health. Certainly some 'New Age' philosophies (depending on whether or not you give them credibility) support that idea too. However, your life and health are your own business, but people generally do not enjoy being in the company of some one who is consumed with hatred. Obviously, this has undesirable social consequences for the 'hater'. I guess people have their choices in life, I hope you are able to manage your hatred so that it does not disadvantage you too much. Regards Mel Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, Feb 02, 1999 at 13:33:44 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: Mel Bourne Subject: Calling it hatred Message: Mel: Calling something a name doesn't make it so. I still contend that 'disagreement' IS NOT hatred. It seems SO fashionable to label someone that we don't agree with as a 'hate monger.' Sorry, but that isn't the definition and NEVER has been. You disagree with my contentions with regard to M, but I don't believe that I have ever referred to you as a hateful person. Disagreement is just THAT! It isn't hatred. Telling the TRUTH about a fraud is just THAT! It isn't hatred. Exposing the lies of a liar is just THAT! It isn't hatred. A debate, even a VITRIOLIC debate, is just THAT! It isn't hatred. So tell me, please, what have you exposed HERE, specifically, as hatred? Let me start by saying that 'I' do NOT hate premies. I think they may be deluded, misinformed and misguided, but THAT is no reason to hate them (individually OR as a group). It IS a good reason to engage them in debate, but NOT hate! SO, why do premies hate us so much? You've got to admit, the ex's have been THREATENED with bodily injury by some of the so-called active premies. That more like hate, to me. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, Feb 02, 1999 at 13:34:20 (EST)
From: ham Email: None To: Mel Bourne Subject: Mixing up hatred Message: I've seen articles on research looking at the length of life expectancy being higher, health better. if an optimistic, positive attitude is encouraged in ones life, but that was counterposed against depression not anger. What do you feel about righteous anger. If I remember right, it was last autumn, you expressed some pretty strong political views against amaerican geo-political power games, which appeared based upon strong, righteous anger, where to draw the lines between anger shading into hatred? The feelings you expressed, which I was largely in sympathy with, come for me from the same/similar feelings against authoritarian abuse that gm arouses. For me real anger is what has appeared in places like Kosovo and all the Balkan chaos spots. No-one here has shown any desire to blow gm away, THAT would be real hatred. If the family firm of shri hans and son have nicked these techniques and they have worked for you, surely you should be more grateful to the radhasoami tradition? How long is the desired period of gratitude for stolen and unnattributed goods? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, Feb 02, 1999 at 13:40:29 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: ham Subject: Actually, I remember Message: ham: I remember Mel saying a pretty 'hateful' thing to me, personally. If I recall (and I DO), he referred to me personally, as a MURDERER! Hmmmmm, sounds like a pretty hateful thing to say, doesn't it? That is, if you use HIS definition of the term 'hate.' Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jan 29, 1999 at 18:08:48 (EST)
From: Scott T. Email: None To: Mel Bourne Subject: Mixing up everything Message: Mel: Didn't anyone tell you that hatred is destructive and generally has the capability to destroy the hater? Hatred?? That's a bit much, don't you think? Just because someone thinks you're a poop doesn't mean they hate you. Want to know more about the role of myth in society, read Joseph Campbell. Not much myth is based on fact, since it is not part of the function to recount factual information. Much of the Odyssey may be founded on fact, but that's probably the exception, and the connection is very tenuous. There may have been a Saxon king of the Pendragon lineage that was the model for Arthur. But, the (my) point is that M doesn't even know his myths very well. The Parcifal myth is about the 'wounded healer' who has no intention of healing anyone, and possesses the secret to heal the grail king unbeknownst to himself. The true healer doesn't exactly set himself up as a master, because he doesn't even know he has the power. In fact, he has to be ignorant of his own power in order to have it. It's like a double blind sort of thing. M, as usual, misses the entire point. That might be excusable in a sixteen year old. At 40+ he's just another ignoramous. What you've got is a planetary-sized need-to-believe. -Scott Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jan 30, 1999 at 05:01:00 (EST)
From: Mel Bourne Email: None To: Scott T. Subject: Mixing up everything Message: Just because someone thinks you're a poop doesn't mean they hate you. Scott, I'm not suggesting that people hate me in particular, (although some may, for all I know), I am remarking in general terms on the HATRED for Maharaji that comes thru on this web site. My point is that hatred in itself is destructive for the people feeling that emotion, and this certainly seems a favourable site for such a negative emotion to grow. ...what you've got is a planetary-sized need-to-believe. I assume by this that you mean that I may need to believe that Maharaji is Lord or something...? In fact, quite honestly, I don't. Such a statement seems to indicate the typical ex-premie patronisation of premies. Maharaji has two arms, two legs and all the other attributes typical of a human being. I'm happy with that, plus of course I get the added bonus of the positive experience of Knowledge that has come into my life as a result of my association with him. That's not my belief or my need to believe, it's as tangible to me as my feeling the keys as I type right now. Maybe ex's ought to respect that premies can and ARE having positive experiences from their association with Maharaji even though they (ex's) may find that difficult to belief because of their own experiences and view points. It may be difficult to respect what we can't understand or believe, but why let that become a barrier between people. Mel Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jan 30, 1999 at 05:40:21 (EST)
From: An Occassional Mole Email: None To: Mel Bourne Subject: Mixing up everything Message: Hi Mel, Maharaji is the expert on hatred. Ask Lee Margolis(sp ?) about the 'fuck-you' video made for someone who disagreed with him. ACM Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jan 30, 1999 at 08:39:04 (EST)
From: bill Email: None To: Mel Bourne Subject: what do you think Mel? Message: Mel How much do you feel your breath? i felt it when before I had knowledge and I had focused on it and that is true. When i was shown techniques i recogised that but it was prem rawats claims to be lord that trapped me into following him and ruining my life by his lies. I suppose we can put on a -live and let live- attitude to the wasted years and figure that because YOU and some others sometimes feel your breath, that all is ok and fine. Tell me Mel, What do you think. Is the origional intelligence self concious? or Is it a oneness and only the 'master of life' gives it a personality and definition? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jan 30, 1999 at 23:33:34 (EST)
From: Mel Bourne Email: None To: bill Subject: what do you think Mel? Message: Hi Bill If you've read any of my posts from previous forays on this forum you will remember that I was never into 'M as Lord', so I never worried about trying to solve that non-issue. 'Feeling the breath', as you put it, is probably more what I'm interested in, although I do not claim to be an accomplished 'feeler'. However, over the years - with time and patience and occassional encouragement from a 'very human' Maharaji, my experience has been positive and I consider it a real enhancement to my life. In my view, the varying discussions and beliefs as to who M may or may not be, serve only as distractions from this experience. It seems that people get caught up in the debate as to whether Maharaji is Lord or fraud and have suffered accordingly irrespective of which conclusion they have come to. As I said, to me it's a non-issue. I have no idea whether the 'Original Intelligence' (do you mean God?) is self conscious or not and have even less idea as to whether the 'Master of life' gives it a personality or definition. Either might be true, but to me it is only conjecture and theological debate. We may never know the real answer to those questions and is it really important that we do? Not in my view. Hope this answers your questions (although may be not to your satisfaction). Regards Mel Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sun, Jan 31, 1999 at 15:39:04 (EST)
From: bill Email: None To: Mel Bourne Subject: what did you forget Mel? Message: Perhaps you would have had a different route if you had been an american premie. We got all the festivals. You had that instructor, hmm, I'm forgetting his name but he was relaxed as I remember him. Pardarthanand Although I remember a racist story about him from JW. How was his australian house? Was that in your neck of the woods? I have some of the magazines from australia-Golden Age. You must have had a few of those. Theyleft little to the imagination, He was the lord and thats that. Also, tha australian band One foundation- the band was clearly singing to thier lord. Even after the guitar and bass left the ashram they put out an album that was clearly lord god almighty style words. Come to think of it you were surrounded by the same stuff we were only perhaps less festivals in person and less instructors perhaps. You have forgotten or blotted out or are denying your deep absorption in that old familiar 'o my guru maharaji you are my everything' refrain you sang from your heart. Check your memory. Why not state your rememberences of that time. They did happen for you. That is true you know. You DID kiss his feet recently. You must have some mental reason why that was ok. Dont worry about hate, real hate is something you havent seen apparently. Real hate is far darker and not required for our level headed telling of the truth. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jan 30, 1999 at 10:08:57 (EST)
From: Scott T. Email: None To: Mel Bourne Subject: Mixing up everything Message: Mel: I am remarking in general terms on the HATRED for Maharaji that comes thru on this web site. Mel, I don't think there is much hatred for M on this site. What does holding someone accountable have to do with hatred? You sound like a monarchist, who believes that everyone who doubts the sovereign is consumed in hatred. By that accounting Washington, Adams and Jefferson were just hate-filled misanthropes. I thought Australia was going to vote to become a republic soon? As for me, I don't much give a damn about M. I hardly ever comment on him, and don't find him very interesting. He is an absolutely typical Indian mystagogue, except that he's adopted some western trappings, and is harvesting western sized contributions. In the scheme of things he's almost imperceptible. I just like the people on this site, and have known some of them for years. On the other hand, he did represent himself as Lord of the Universe. Pretty funny, for someone with a substandard intellect, eductation, and moral sense. But, that's not hatred. That's just reality. I see your need-to-believe for what it is, because there is no credible connection between M and the internal experience you're having, besides your belief in his doctrine. Read David Lane's research on the Rhadasaomis. They almost always see their guru in meditation, or at least attribute the experience to him. In only one instance did the guru take a consistent position that countered the concept that he had some participation in, or responsibility for, the meditation experiences of his devotees. My take on that guy is that his followers had a need-to-believe that was strong enough to overcome the disavowel of their own guru. I'd like to get a reading on their cognitive dissonance, however. I'll bet it was immense! -Scott Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Feb 01, 1999 at 01:44:14 (EST)
From: Runamok Email: None To: Scott T. Subject: Really Rhad, Man Message: Hey Scott, Who was the Rhad guru in question who disasocciated himself from guru's grace... Give me his email too, man. Seriously, what's the lowdown? My bells weren't ringing on this. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Feb 01, 1999 at 11:02:45 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: Mel Bourne Subject: Who says Message: Mel: Who says that hate is self-destructive? I'm not arguing the point, I just want to know who (with REAL AUTHORITY) says so? I do know that hate has kept prisoners alive in prison camps.... so that wasn't self-destructive, now was it? But, beyond that, I don't think you are qualfied to tell me what/how my mind works nor how anyone elses mind works because you are trying to do the MOST UNNATURAL thing by removing/ignoring yours. It's like a bus-rider (who has never driven a vehicle) telling me how to fix a car. It just doesn't make any sense, Mel. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jan 29, 1999 at 01:00:14 (EST)
From: Jethro Email: None To: Mel Bourne Subject: Mixing up myths and facts Message: 'Has some one done some verifiable statistical research on numbers receiving knowledge and later having 'nothing to do with it'? Please quote your sources. ' I was propagation coordinator in various cities in the UK for several years. I took this service very seriously as I understood that this was HIS purpose in this world. I spent most of my time, when I wasn't earning money for HIM, prpagating the holy Knowledge by talking to people, organistations, other groups, etc etc etc. Imagine my shock when I found all over the place people who had received the Knowledge and dropped it...it must have been a test from the Lord to me...I told myself. Yes even after I was kicked out of the ashram onto the street, I still secretly understood that this was my blessing that the supreme balyogeshwar was testing me and continues (like shri hans) to walk around and talk to people and tell them of this most holy knowledge that even where one spark hits makes it purrrfect....image my shock that even when going around this time how many people had tried knowledge and dropped it. Imagine my shock when I went to India to meet the most holy indian premies, that prempal was just one of their gurus.....nothing special, imagine my shock when I found out that the secret techniques were known by all and that 'updesh' was a chance for a good meal...... I tried for a few years more to tell my self that was HIS lila abd He is testing me....I tried...I really tried Mel...but guess what I just couldn't buy it any more. HE is a cheat. It's the hardest thing for a premie to accept. So you can see that my statistics are my own experience I can assure you that there is life after Maharaji. When will you see through all this bollocks? I hope you don't get too bruised this time around...but you will probably insist/ Jethro Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jan 29, 1999 at 07:54:59 (EST)
From: Gail Email: None To: Jethro Subject: Mixing up myths and facts Message: I don't have many facts. I do know that only four people from London received K in the last 15 years. Of those four, one moved and receives old videos in Bobcayeon. He doesn't go to any programs. His expenses are for mailings only. A Dr. who watches the videos at home and donates an office space for video presentations (he doesn't go). He basically married into it. When he goes to programs, he stays outside with the baby while the mother attends. The third person only came twice after receiving K. I gave her a package of 300 pages from this forum in case she had any doubts. She appreciated the info and admitted to feeling guilty that she did not want to attend videos or meditate. The last guy only came twice after receiving K last April, 1998 up until I left in June. I don't know about him. Lousy results, eh? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jan 30, 1999 at 09:30:36 (EST)
From: red heart Email: None To: Jethro Subject: Mixing up facts and opinions Message: Hadn't read much around here lately, and was following Mel Bourne's thread there, and not really interested in posting here these days. However I cannot resist noting that what I hear you saying in this previous post is that you were weighing the validity and value of practicing Knowledge in England, and then in India you were weighing the significance of the Perfect Master in India, with what you perceived 'high numbers' of OTHER PEOPLE were believing. Then, you used your perception that many people were not valuing Knowledge in their lives nor valuing the significance of the Perfect Master in their lives to be your 'clear proof' that neither the practice of Knowledge nor the Teacher were significant or valuable. Sounds like maybe you were never thinking for yourself in the first place, and continue in that habit. My sincere suggestion to you would be to stop worrying about what OTHERS think, and trust yourself to discover the real truths about things. 'Following the crowd' is a real good way to fall into very muddy ditches. Respect yourself enough to think and feel for YOURSELF. Neither what the people on this site think or do nor what the students of Maharaji think or do can be trustworthy guide. There will be times perhaps that you agree with neither of them, and that's okay. But be warned: 'Following the crowd' tendencies like you are espousing are truly dangerous. I think history has shown us that very clearly, and continues to show us that today. Each of us needs to be responsible for him/herself. red heart Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jan 30, 1999 at 11:32:40 (EST)
From: Sir Dave Email: None To: red heart Subject: Mixing up facts and opinions Message: Well I think for myself, red heels. But your email to me last year didn't repect that privilage. You lambasted me with something along the lines of a cult thinking process and the fact that I didn't agree with your extreme view put a wedge there. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jan 30, 1999 at 14:53:58 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: red heart Subject: That's pretty funny Message: Red heart, You're defending a cult whose central practise has become nothing but constant viewing of the videotaped messages of one man who is never questioned but only 'thanked' endlessly without reserve as one that allows independent thinking? That's rich. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jan 30, 1999 at 17:46:36 (EST)
From: Scott T. Email: None To: red heart Subject: Mixing up indpndnt and subjctv Message: Sorry. Had to omit the vowels to get the subject in that teeny tiny window. RH: Try thinking first, before moving up to 'independent' thinking. What objective evidence exists does not support your conclusions about Maharaji. That is hardly controversial. If I chose to ignore all objective evidence, as well as the rational argument process called logic, I might at least consider the possibility that my subjective (not independent) conclusions could be the result of distorted perceptions or thoughts. That mismatch would constitute evidence of a possible lack of validity, in other words. -Scott Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jan 30, 1999 at 20:36:49 (EST)
From: nigel Email: nigel@redcrow.demon.co.uk To: red heart Subject: Holy Bollocks, Batman! Message: Jeez, I cannot believe this, Red Heart. Have you read this back to yourself - and maybe thought about it a little? You wrote: Sounds like maybe you were never thinking for yourself in the first place, and continue in that habit. My sincere suggestion to you would be to stop worrying about what OTHERS think, and trust yourself to discover the real truths about things. 'Following the crowd' is a real good way to fall into very muddy ditches Just about every one here did indeed 'follow the crowd' and many ended up in worse than muddy ditches. Other fellow-followers of the crowd are no longer among us and available for comment. Just like every other premie who posts here, Red Heart, you seem to imagine the ex's have some kind of 'common cause'. op sees a good-cop/bad-cop conspiracy. Melby sees a poisonous little hate-bin. CD, no less, emailed me to comment that the 'Enjoyinglife' scam would probably 'backfire' on us. Impossible, given that none of us have anything to lose, or gain. Personally speaking, there is nothing to be had here but FUN! - chiefly at the expense of the portly alcoholic millionaire (known as Mr Rawat on his tax forms) for whom you still have a rather disturbing obsession, I note. If he weren't a guru you'd have to call it a fetish. I remember at around 20.15 pm (EST), November 17th, 1998, just after I had posted the first four pieces of evidence regarding the editing on the Elk site, you suddenly felt inspired to start a thread of your own, entitled: 'Best Site on the Web'. The message contained therein: 'http://www.enjoyinglife.org'. Listen, Red Heart, I realise you probably put a lot of thought into that one, and I don't want to knock you for your obvious sincerity, but were you - at that moment of divine inspiration or panic - really urging the casual web-browser to 'trust yourself to discover the real truths about things? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jan 29, 1999 at 12:54:41 (EST)
From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Mel Bourne Subject: Mixing up myths and facts Message: Of ' my' k session in 1972 (about 20 persons present), we were 2 survivors in 1997. There is only 1 left now as far as I know ! As for France: 750 premies watched the satellite link in december. More than 10,000 people received k in France since 1971. This figure has been carefully calculated by EV responsible, I was one of them for decades. I've been in charge of the mailing lists myself for years. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jan 29, 1999 at 14:15:49 (EST)
From: Orlando Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: if...then... Message: If it is true that the 'cult' is dwindling and slowly disappearing on its own, well then why spend so much energy trying to 'deprogram' people'? heck, they'll drop out of it anyways... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jan 29, 1999 at 14:41:40 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: Orlando Subject: no deprogramming here! Message: Orlando: From what I've seen, there isn't any deprogramming occurring here, nor any attempt to. This is a friendly place for those that have 'exited' the cult and for those that wish to (for whatever reason). Additionally, this site tells the unexpurgated story of our travels thru the cult and the fallout, thereafter. Yup, this site is a whole lot of things, but deprogramming isn't one of those! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jan 29, 1999 at 15:22:17 (EST)
From: Gail Email: None To: Mike Subject: no deprogramming here! Message: When I arrived here, people were friendly and informative. I wasn't their prisoner by any means. The site did point out the many glaring flaws in my logic. It also helped me realize that MJ was not the LOTU. I might have stayed until the bitter end (like Custer's last stand). I didn't have the good sense to pull the thorn from my foot alone. I needed some others to agree with me. THIS IS A CRAZY CULT. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sun, Jan 31, 1999 at 18:17:19 (EST)
From: Nil Email: None To: Gail Subject: no deprogramming here! Message: Looking objectively at this forum, there's as much independant thinking here as any other hate group on the web, i.e. almost none. It's a support group for lost lemmings... you went in like lemmings, and like lemmings you leave. Reminds me of that song by Paul Simon. Goes something like... 'Still lemmings after all these years, We're still lemmings after all these years' May have gotten the words a little mixed up but, anyway...enjoy the ride down! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sun, Jan 31, 1999 at 18:34:42 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Nil Subject: no deprogramming here! Message: Looking objectively at this forum, there's as much independant thinking here as any other hate group on the web, i.e. almost none. It's a support group for lost lemmings... you went in like lemmings, and like lemmings you leave. Hey Nil, Are you here for jsut the anonymous pot shot or a little discussion? What you've got here, Nil, is a bunch of former, disgruntled followers of a 70s joke, the Living Perfect Master, Lord of the Universe, etc. You know? Saviour of Mankind? Mor e powers than ever before? Remember? OBVIOUSLY we agree on a few things. Otherwise we wouldn't be here. But consider all that we don't agree on: Some of us are atheists. Some Christian. Some are still pretty new age and some don't even care to think about these matters. Some of us got out of the cult as early as '74 while others didn't join until the 90s. Some of us never even got initiated but merely experienced family pressure to do so over the years. Some of us feel traumatized by our involvement, others think the whole thing's a delicious joke. Some of us feel sorry for Maharaji, believing he's as much a victim of this nonsense as anyone. Others see him as a vile predator and hate him accordingly. Some are kind of indifferent to him or aren't sure what they think. Thus some of us want to hurt him or, at the very least, stop him from continuing this crazy charade. Others don't particularly care one way or the other, so long as they can understand to their own satisfaction what happened in their own lives. Some of us still meditate and think k has some validity irrespective of rawat. Others aren't the least bit interested in meditation of any kind and think k was just a superstitious parlour trick. Some of us are liberal or conservative politically and/or socially. We're bound to argue about relevant issues as they arise and anyone's interested. Some of us are more academically-inclined, to say the least, than others here. Some of us apparently harbour strong mistrust of society and its power structures. Others don't feel that way at all. We're spread out over all sorts of jobs and pasttimes and interests. And the list goes on. What we do have in common, however, is that we've all learned to see through rawat. If that's what you call proof of the loss of independent thinking then you're an idiot. Besides, what would be the process by which one loses their independent thinking here? Reading the page? Contributing to it? Is that all it takes? How silly. So you tell me, Nil, what independent thinking Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sun, Jan 31, 1999 at 20:07:12 (EST)
From: Nil Email: None To: Jim Subject: Go team! Message: The party line in this forum is thick. Having 'seen' through the 'charade' you've reduced everything to black and white... no not all of you (there are some liberal thinkers in the bunch). Your binding themes are hatred and a need to have something to do with your empty lives now that you no longer go to satsang. Some of you spend your time making foul and hate filled-remarks. Others fall back to a touchy-feely rendition of self-help induced nausea. While others try to deny the very existance of anything beyond the bounds of the all-mighty intellect. You're as much a bunch of misfits as you claim the premies to be... hell if it wasn't for your common misanthropy you probably wouldn't give the time of day to the other gnomes that haunt these pages. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sun, Jan 31, 1999 at 20:35:53 (EST)
From: x Email: None To: Nil Subject: Go team! Message: So who are YOU? Mr.Objective, right? You wouldn't happen to be a follower of the self proclaimed 'LORD OF THE UNIVERSE' would you? Wouldn't that hinder your objectivity just a little? You spiritually arrogant nitwit! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sun, Jan 31, 1999 at 20:49:35 (EST)
From: Nil Email: None To: x Subject: Go team! Message: So who are YOU? Mr.Objective, right? You wouldn't happen to be a follower of the self proclaimed 'LORD OF THE UNIVERSE' would you? Wouldn't that hinder your objectivity just a little? You spiritually arrogant nitwit! Yes, as a matter of fact Mr. Objective is my name... And who might you be my good man? ...Mr. Over-reactive? Blow me asshole! If you want to see arrogance, look no further than the other x's who pontificate here on this forum. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sun, Jan 31, 1999 at 21:16:35 (EST)
From: x Email: fuckyou To: Nil Subject: Go team! Message: Gee, I wish I could be more like you, Mr. Objective. You seem so happy and emotionally mature. Oh well, I guess I'll have to keep living my hate filled life over reacting to assholes like you! Go blow yourself you pathetic moron. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sun, Jan 31, 1999 at 21:35:33 (EST)
From: Nil Email: None To: x Subject: Go team! Message: Gee, I wish I could be more like you, Mr. Objective. You seem so happy and emotionally mature. Oh well, I guess I'll have to keep living my hate filled life over reacting to assholes like you! Go blow yourself you pathetic moron. Now x, is that the best you can do? I suppose if I was so inclined I could fire off yet another cheap shot in response to one of yours (...after all you did start it). But being, as you point out, an emotionally mature and happy person, I'll just let your last outburst slide. Besides, I really can't blow myself... put's my back out every time. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Feb 01, 1999 at 02:40:14 (EST)
From: Jethro Email: None To: Nil Subject: no deprogramming here! Message: Well Nil you got it wrong, the people here are singing 'I'd rather be a hammer than a nail'. Give up your nailism! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Feb 01, 1999 at 10:32:45 (EST)
From: Helen Email: None To: Nil Subject: no deprogramming here! Message: Oh, Nil, thanks so much for pointing out to me what a lemming I am! I think I'll go out and buy an SUV now and get my hair done just like Gwyneth Paltrow. After that I'll go to the PTA meeting and vote like all the other parents. Then I'll make sure to kiss up to my boss like everyone else at the staff meeting. I'm so glad to know what I truly am now--a lemming. And you know what, I accept myself just the way I am--thank you thank you Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Feb 01, 1999 at 11:13:02 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: Nil Subject: I enjoyed it, thanks! Message: Nil: The ride to REALITY was a little bumpy, but well worth the effort and I didn't even need a kidney-belt! I was NEVER this happy or genuinely concerned with my fellow human beings as when I stopped devoting all of my time/efforts to M and other completely selfish endeavors. Remember, 'feeling good' IS all about YOURSELF.... If YOU don't use to to the betterment of OTHERS, then it's just a selfish endeavor! So far, I haven't seen ANY premie-driven (or M-driven) humanitarian efforts.... so guess what I think of YOU???? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Feb 01, 1999 at 20:03:11 (EST)
From: Nil Email: None To: Mike Subject: I enjoyed it, thanks! Message: So far, I haven't seen ANY premie-driven (or M-driven) humanitarian efforts.... so guess what I think of YOU???? Frankly Mike I don't give a damn what you think of me. I am however glad you've become a little more human... if you have. As for humanitarian effort being a measure of ANYTHING... don't insult my intellegence. Ask the indiginous people's of the world who were fucked over by the Catholic church what they think about it. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, Feb 02, 1999 at 10:42:27 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: Nil Subject: Escape and EVADE! Message: Nil: I asked you a simple question and you TOTALLY evaded it. Blaming the catholic church for YOUR LACK OF ACTION doesn't make the grade. Blaming the catholic church for your supreme asshole's lack of action doesn't get it, either. He's supposed to be all-knowing, isn't he? FUCK YOU for your lack of action and FUCK YOUR LARD for his, as well! You both deserve each other! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, Feb 02, 1999 at 06:21:11 (EST)
From: Mel Bourne Email: mbvictoria@hotmail.com To: Mike Subject: Please excuse me... Message: for butting in on this one, but really Mike, you are beginning to suffer from the 'ex-premie generalisation about premies' problem that I have identified elsewhere in this thread..... So far, I haven't seen ANY premie-driven (or M-driven) humanitarian efforts.... Just because You haven't seen them doesn't mean they don't exist! Mike, you've been listening to Jim too long and are beginning to apply his flawed strategies to your debating technique! Helpful regards Mel Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, Feb 02, 1999 at 11:02:18 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: Mel Bourne Subject: You are excused! Message: Mel: I'm not, under ANY circumstance, saying that some individual premies don't perform some individual humanitarian functions. BUT, and this is a biggie, for an organization that is BASED upon the premise of spreading peace throughout the world, etc, etc, they aren't doing ANYTHING! Prove me wrong, Mel! If there is a premie-based ORGANIZATION or an M-approved organization for humanitarian efforts, please tell me! If M provides ANY of 'your' money for humanitarian efforts, prove me wrong.... What percentage of his ludricrously rich income goes to feeding the hungry? (Don't include festivals in India, Mel. That would just count as a way to hook new converts). YOU CAN'T, because he doesn't! Jeez, man, he won't even write a letter to the berieved when one of HIS OWN PREMIES commits suicide or is killed in some other manner. He, my friend, is truely a heartless bastard. When are you guys going to wake up to this fact. By the way, providing 'gratitude' to M in the form of gold faucets and unnecessary, rediculously expensive and useless smog-belching aircraft-for-one, doesn't count as humanitarian 'giving'! Now, as for Jim's influence upon me! Stop it, Mel! You sound absolutely rediculous when you say things like that. Are you trying to mirror Nil? You are beginning to sound like it! Those are his moronic assertions. I am NOT echoing ANYONE's words. If I do echo what someone has said, I give them credit in the byline. Otherwise, I take PERSONAL responsibility for whatever I say. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jan 29, 1999 at 16:34:22 (EST)
From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Orlando Subject: else Message: Don't you understand we're deprogramminng ourselves ! You and no premie need to read this, none of this is intended to you! Why can't you accept it? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Feb 01, 1999 at 00:12:14 (EST)
From: barney Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: my deprogramming wearing off Message: Quick, help me. I'm feeling affected by what Nil has said. I'm feeling that the deprogramming is wearing off and I'm just about to write a check to Maharaji and beg him to take me back. Whoever has the Ex-premie.org Deprogramming Video please express mail it to me, ASAP. But, I do appreciate the suggestion about giving myself a blowjob. I guess all that Hatha Yoga paid off. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Feb 01, 1999 at 14:14:26 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: barney Subject: It should only take 5 minutes! Message: barney: According to Nil (boy, is that name appropriate), your slef-induced bj should only take 5 minutes.... Since another person isn't involved, I think it should take less than that... he he he :-) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jan 29, 1999 at 13:31:24 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: Mel Bourne Subject: Mixing up myths and facts Message: I doubt anyone cares enough to do statistical research on how many people who received knowledge actually practice, but I think anyone who has been around awhile, and has a brain, can see it is defintely less than 10% and probably more like 2-5% DLM claimed in the mmid-70s that well over 50,000 people had received knowledge in the USA alone, and I would doubt more than a few thousand are involved in any sort of practice these days. It seems you really have to be convinced externally, over and over, by listening to videos and going to programs in order to stay involved and practice. The inference from this is that 'staying involved' is really more a matter of programming and indoctrination, than any type of internal experience. If the experience is so wonderful and joyful, why would you have to keep being 'reminded' to do it. No one has to remind me to have sex, it's just an enjoyable experience that I like to do. No one has to remind me to have fun either. Now, I know it's part of Maharaji's stunted philosophy that the world and your mind are out to get you, and so you have to keep re-dedicating yourself to a shaky path, but have you really ever examined that ridiculous assumption? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jan 30, 1999 at 05:23:17 (EST)
From: Mel Bourne Email: None To: JW Subject: Mixing up myths and facts Message: JW I know it's part of Maharaji's stunted philosophy that the world and your mind are out to get you, and so you have to keep re-dedicating yourself to a shaky path, but have you really ever examined that ridiculous assumption? Of course I did, JW, who didn't? I never accepted the paranoid view that the 'world and mind were out to get me'. Rightly or wrongly, I interpreted the issue as one of 'world' and 'mind' distracting me rather than trying to persecute me. However, as I said earlier, I simply see Maharaji (very occassionally, I might add) to receive the inspiration to continue my practice, a simple proposition that, of course, is easy to distort into the terms that you and others like to use in your anti-Maharaji tirades. Mel Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jan 30, 1999 at 11:26:29 (EST)
From: Rick Email: None To: Mel Bourne Subject: Gerry Message: However, as I said earlier, I simply see Maharaji (very occassionally, I might add) to receive the inspiration to continue my practice, a simple proposition that, of course, is easy to distort into the terms that you and others like to use in your anti-Maharaji tirades. Mel Hey Gerry, Isn't Mel Bourne the rat you sniffed out several months ago? The guy was feigning concern that we might incur legal problems for libel against BM, or something like that. You knew he was insincere from the get-go but others gave him the benefit of the doubt. I haven't kept up on all his posts but has he ever demonstrated before that he is actually a card-carrying premie? Rick Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jan 30, 1999 at 13:42:00 (EST)
From: Gerry Email: None To: Rick Subject: Gerry Message: Hi Rick, Yeah, same Mel Boring, I'm afraid and yes he did admit to being a card carrying premie, didn't you Mel. Quick, before the cock crows thrice... Rick, nice to have you back. Love your hard hitting to-the-point posts. Mel, get lost. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jan 30, 1999 at 23:50:54 (EST)
From: Mel Bourne Email: None To: Gerry Subject: Card carrying premie Message: Gerry I can't admit to being a 'card carrying' premie, because I haven't been issued with a card. I don't recollect that cards were ever issued or are currently being issued. Anyway.... if you mean that I support M in his work, well, I admit to that, although I could be far more supportive! Mel Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sun, Jan 31, 1999 at 20:38:14 (EST)
From: Nil Email: None To: Mel Bourne Subject: Gerry/Rick Message: Mel, you're far too nice to these assholes. Just tell'em to take a flying fuck and be done with it. The only way they'll ever be nice to you is if they want to fuck you... of course then I'd run if I were you. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Feb 01, 1999 at 02:51:02 (EST)
From: Jethro Email: None To: Nil Subject: Nil is Nil Message: For someone who puts sex into a 5-minute slot, you certainly have a lot to learn about life and love. Your post demonstrate that you have learned nothing from your path. Still as prempal said to Anne Johnson 'sex is mind'. Nil is an extrememly appropriate name for you. You follow an abuser. In my book that makes you an abuser. Here's a quote that those of your ilk like so much 'Evil flourished where good people do nothing'. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Feb 01, 1999 at 09:27:04 (EST)
From: Mel Bourne Email: mbvictoria@hotmail.com To: Nil Subject: Gerry/Rick Message: Thanks for your advice, Nil Actually, Gerry did make me an offer in HTML letters a metre high when I first started contributing to this site. I turned him down, though, because my wife saw his message and got very upset Look, keep contributing, a sharp and witty (dare I say it) 'mind' is needed around here. These guys think they have a monopoly of truth. Can you imagine how insufferable they would have been when they were premies? Mel Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Feb 01, 1999 at 11:16:46 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Mel Bourne Subject: Mel and Nil Message: Look, keep contributing, a sharp and witty (dare I say it) 'mind' is needed around here. Dare you say nothing! Tell me one witty thing Nil's said, Mel. One. ('Fuck off' doesn't count. I say that all the time myself, as you know, and would never expect to get credit for that as soem marvellous joke or something.) So what has Nil said that isn't empty and stupid? Huh? These guys think they have a monopoly of truth. Can you imagine how insufferable they would have been when they were premies? You're SUCH an idiot trying to lump together every premie who's seen through rawat and interested in talking about it as having once been only certain KINDS of premies. That is preposterous. Where's your evidence, Mel? What proof do you have that I was like Robyn who was like JW who was like Rick who was like Selene who was like Katie who was like Mike who was like Nimrod who was like Run who was like Anon who was like x .... and on and on and on? Youre a fool, Mel and no, saying so does NOT cloud my reason. It's just a form of underlining. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Feb 01, 1999 at 14:25:28 (EST)
From: gerry Email: None To: Mel Boring Subject: Mel Boring and Mr. Wit Message: Look, keep contributing, a sharp and witty (dare I say it) 'mind' is needed around here. These guys think they have a monopoly of truth. Can you imagine how insufferable they would have been when they were premies? Yeah, Mr Boring, encourage this buttwipe to keep posting. He's almost as sharp and witty as you are. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Feb 01, 1999 at 14:17:07 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: Nil Subject: What an idiot! Message: Nil: Your commentary and opinions are less than useless, they are mind-numbingly idiotic. Are you getting ready to threaten anyone, yet.... at this rate, that is where you appear to be bound.... what a loving, selfless soul you are... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Feb 01, 1999 at 14:34:30 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: Mel Bourne Subject: Wrong Again, Mel Message: Mel: CARDS were issued. I was issued a card from DLM, back in the early days. It even had a 'member number' on it. SO, you were never a card-carrying premie, eh? How can you expect me to take your pseudo-premie opinions seriously, then???? ;-) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sun, Jan 31, 1999 at 13:52:45 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: Mel Bourne Subject: Mixing up myths and facts Message: Well Mel, you really seem to have the ability to accept the drastic changes over the years about who or what Guru Maharaj Ji, now Maharaji, is. You seem now to just accept him as some kind of casual reminder to meditate, rather than someone you are supposed to dedicate your life to and worship as god incarnate. Nifty that you can do that and remain involved. I certainly couldn't. It's also great that you never accepted the 'evil mind' rationale, although I can't help but think there is some revisionism going on there. Virtually every premie I knew from the 70s accepted it hook, line and sinker. In fact, since Maharaji said it over and over, I doubt very many premies questioned it. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sun, Jan 31, 1999 at 18:32:07 (EST)
From: Nil Email: None To: JW Subject: Mixing up myths and facts Message: Even a gnat knows enough to have sex. Even dogs have fun. There are some humans, yes just a few, who want more than to live their lives like gnats and dogs... and the gnat doesn't even know they exist. The road less travelled is not a crowded one, so don't look for numbers to verify the brilliance of its destination. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sun, Jan 31, 1999 at 19:15:36 (EST)
From: Nil Email: None To: JW Subject: Mixing up myths and facts Message: To have sex takes a committment of about 5 minutes. If you compare sex to having inner fulfillment... well JW, you clearly don't have a clue about the topic. Even a tapeworm has sex, but he lives his life swimming in shit. But hey, if that's your thing, you're free to take it to the limit... enjoy! The road less travelled is not a crowded one. If you use numbers to measure its authenticity...well what can I say, join the flock, you'll be safe there...sorta. It takes an urge that is much deeper than sex to even take the first step on the road less travelled. It takes real committment to continue every day. Any true help that comes my way, I am grateful for because the rewards are magnificent. Itbeats a life of burping your tapeworm... believe me I've tried them both. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sun, Jan 31, 1999 at 22:00:50 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: Nil Subject: Mixing up myths and facts Message: Thank you for your condescending post. I find it quite typical of premies, and having been one myself, I know the drill. It's the typical premie mentality to blow off the fact that 90% of people who receive knowledge split, by feeling spiritually superior for staying one of the few on the path, as you say. It's the main reward for being a premie, believing that you have something that most other people don't. But you know what? It isn't true. You don't have shit, other than a belief system and a cult. So, you think you are smarter, or luckier, or have more grace, or are more fortunate, ord more dedicated that those other people, including the exes? Think again. I think it's you, my friend, who doesn't have a clue about the topic. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Feb 01, 1999 at 23:05:18 (EST)
From: Nil Email: None To: JW Subject: Mixing up myths and facts Message: JW, stop your snivelling about feeling like you have been condescended upon... that's a self-victimization tactic that doesn't wash with me. I don't think I'm smarter, or more dedicated (ex's excluded) than others. But I do feel lucky, fortunate, and have experienced a lot of grace in my life. And if I have experienced something that you haven't... tough shit for you. JW, you are such a pathetic little fool. The 'reassurance' you gain in the knowledge that you 'must be right because you're in the majority', is an indication of just how shallow a person you must be. You remind me of some idiot trying to reassure everyone on the Titanic that everything is going to be OK. Call it 'blowing off' if you like but I couldn't give a flying fuck about the numbers who have come and gone... you included. It's a wonderful gift, and I'm just glad I have it. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, Feb 02, 1999 at 12:38:19 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: Nil Subject: It isn't a gift, Nil Message: Nil: You keep referring to K as if it were a 'gift.' If you had it all along and if it was always yours, then it ISN'T a gift. If I took something that belongs to you, gift wrap it and give it back, would you call it a gift? YOU have fallen into the most basic cult trap. YOU are convinced that M 'gave' you something that you didn't have beforehand. HE DIDN'T give you anything that you didn't already have. It was yours, it IS yours and (for as long as you live) it will be yours. Whatever 'it' is, he didn't give it to you! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Feb 01, 1999 at 02:02:08 (EST)
From: Runamok Email: None To: Nil Subject: Mixing up myths and facts Message: I'd guess most people take more than 5 minutes to have sex. Likewise, many of us associate sex with one committed relationship. Sex and a committed relationship, sometimes lasting a lifetime, is a universally acknowledged normal desire and is commonly referred to as love. If you want to dis love in favor of your own path with Miragey, you are angrier than you realise. And I'm not saying that that is the only kind of love that exists, but it is the most common and normal in life. Why hate what is good, no matter if what you have is better or worse? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Feb 01, 1999 at 23:13:10 (EST)
From: Nil Email: None To: Runamok Subject: Mixing up myths and facts Message: Now what the fuck gives you the idea that I 'dis-love' in favor of M? What have I EVER said that gave you that idea? Huh... Are you completely 'brain-dead' and coerced into thinking we're all sub-human? Can you REALLY think for yourself? Or are you still following the herd like just another stupid fucked-up lemming... just like you were when you were a premie. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Feb 01, 1999 at 23:21:05 (EST)
From: gerry Email: None To: Nil Subject: Silly Nilly is really... Message: Mahatma Fakiranand! Bam, bam the hammer man! Goober's henchman, shootin' from the hip. You go, Nilly, boy! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, Feb 02, 1999 at 10:33:27 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: Nil Subject: Incapable of communications Message: Nil: You REALLY CAN'T communicate, can you? Talk about brain-dead. 'Thinking for yourself' isn't the hallmark of YOUR CULT, Nil. Hey, premies, isn't THIS GUY the very best representative of your lard? Is he the best you could find? What do you think of this guy, Maharaji? Isn't he just stupendous? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Feb 01, 1999 at 11:43:38 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: Nil Subject: 5 minutes???? Message: Nil: I 'feel' truely sorry for your significant other, if YOU have one. 5 minutes??????? What an incredibly selfish person you must be! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Feb 01, 1999 at 23:31:57 (EST)
From: Nil Email: None To: Mike Subject: 5 minutes???? Message: Okay stud, why don't you let the viewers at home know what a mmmmmmasculine man you are, and let us know how it's done. Also, we'd be really intereseted to know if you really CAN give yourself head... and if you do, do you swallow? Over to you Mikey.... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, Feb 02, 1999 at 00:22:32 (EST)
From: Runamok Email: None To: Nil Subject: 15 minutes of fame Message: You sounded like you were dissing love, son. So dis me if you can't admit it, I don't mind. I guess you think you're plain better than everyone. Truthfully, why would a raging, cursing internet poster seem like a logical place for me to look to expand my horizons? You're to busy dissing everything in sight to actually converse like a human. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, Feb 02, 1999 at 10:29:17 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: Nil Subject: You twit! Message: Nil: YOU really are a flaming idiot, aren't you. There would be no use in trying to explain anything to you that you couldn't possibly understand. Your comment (idea) that love-making takes 5 minutes of devotion is absolute proof of your total lack of concern for anyone other than yourself and your total lack of experience in that endeavor. Next, I guess you will be telling me that you are a viet vet and such, right? YOU FUCKING IMBICILE! You are beginning to sound very familiar..... did you used to post a 'steve,' you moronic twit? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jan 29, 1999 at 14:37:46 (EST)
From: Jerry Email: None To: Mel Bourne Subject: Mixing up myths and facts Message: ... I think most premies listen to M in order to get the inspiration to continuing the practice. I often wondered about this, Mel. If Knowledge (which today is the meditation, right?), is so beautiful, then why do you need M to inspire you? Wouldn't the Knowledge, itself, be inspiring enough? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jan 29, 1999 at 14:50:01 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: Jerry Subject: Right on the head, Jerry! Message: Jerry: After reading Mel's comments, that thought struck me as well. Jeez, if K is SOOOOO wonderful and my 'heart leaps' every morning and I 'feel the glory of my breath' every day, then why the heck do I need a guru for 'inspiration' to continue my practice of something SO 'natural?' The answer: If ANY of the above were true statements (all from premies, BTW), then YOU WOULDN'T NEED any external inspiration at all, EVER! Wake up Mel, the premies are lying when they say things like this. If it FELT even slightly good, you wouldn't need ANY external inspiration to continue the practice. The inspiration is required because the practice is a DRAG! It's a EFFORT that produces NOTHING! THAT is the reason that you need inspiration to continue.... that and for brainwashing renewal, of course! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jan 29, 1999 at 16:37:57 (EST)
From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Mike Subject: Give it a try ! Message: Since I've sent the gurooo fuck himself, nothing has changed for what I feel inside of me through meditation. I still practice at time, it's great, no gooorooo involved, NO STRINGS ATTACHED anymore! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sun, Jan 31, 1999 at 18:51:09 (EST)
From: Nil Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: Give it a try ! Message: ...and if it wasn't for that 'gurooo fuck' you never would have heard about it in the first place. But, you probably would still be wasting your life vomitting over some other trip you got involved in and was never successfull at. Christ man, I bet you're a distasteful person to spend any time around... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sun, Jan 31, 1999 at 19:06:45 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Nil Subject: Give it a try ! Message: ...and if it wasn't for that 'gurooo fuck' you never would have heard about it in the first place. But, you probably would still be wasting your life vomitting over some other trip you got involved in and was never successfull at. Christ man, I bet you're a distasteful person to spend any time around... Nil, Have you ever read anything by people who defend other cults like Scientology, the Krishna's, Moonies or what have you? They all sound exactly like you. Exactly! That is ALL cult apologists try to argue that there must be something deficient in the people who leave and that's why they're so 'negative'. The very fact that you're comfortable defending this cult on that superficial basis shows you're not really a thinker in any respect. Just a follower. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sun, Jan 31, 1999 at 20:17:44 (EST)
From: Nil Email: None To: Jim Subject: Give it a try ! Message: Have you ever read anything by people who defend other cults like Scientology, the Krishna's, Moonies or what have you? They all sound exactly like you. Exactly! Have you ever noticed how people that try to color the world one of either black or white, always try to find neat little formulas to attempt to fit everyone into? It makes them feel like they have an explanation for everything which makes them one of the all-powerful leaders in the herd of lemmings. (Is it herd, or gaggle...or flock...or murder? Can any one help me out here?) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sun, Jan 31, 1999 at 23:00:30 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Nil Subject: That's not trying! Message: Have you ever noticed how people that try to color the world one of either black or white, always try to find neat little formulas to attempt to fit everyone into? It makes them feel like they have an explanation for everything which makes them one of the all-powerful leaders in the herd of lemmings. (Is it herd, or gaggle...or flock...or murder? Can any one help me out here?) If someone only read your question above they might think it was properly posed and awaiting an answer. But if they read the post that preceded it -- mine -- they'd realize it was a pathetic evasion of an earlier question, properly posed and awaiting an answer. Nil, it's hard enough to have a decent discussion with people. Harder still, perhaps, in this medium as opposed to actual conversation. And harder even still when there are such emotionally-charged issues on the table. But when someone doesn't even TRY to be responsive, it's pretty well damned sure impossible. Now you don't like broad-sweeping generalizations, right? That's part of your complaint with us, isn't it? We're ALL this way or that? (Your wide-mouthed hypocrisy is funny as hell but that's another point altogether. I just mention it in passing). You might not like this generalization but I'm telling you, in the past couple of years I've debated, discussed, mulled over rawat with a lot of people. I tell you that there's never yet been a premie who could discuss the man fairly. Never. Not one. No exceptions. None. So what about you? Are you able and willing to discuss rawat properly? Hm? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Feb 01, 1999 at 09:39:42 (EST)
From: Mel Bourne Email: None To: Jim Subject: That's not trying! Message: You might not like this generalization but I'm telling you, in the past couple of years I've debated, discussed, mulled over rawat with a lot of people. I tell you that there's never yet been a premie who could discuss the man fairly 'Fairly'? Jim, don't you really mean on your terms and with your hatred? That's hardly 'fairly', is it Jim? Mel Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Feb 01, 1999 at 02:57:26 (EST)
From: Jethro Email: None To: Nil Subject: Give it a try ! Message: 'Have you ever noticed how people that try to color the world one of either black or white, always try to find neat little formulas to attempt to fit everyone into? ' You mean like prempal making the division between those with knowledge and those without. Mind you he must be correct as he said that id HE wanted to to he could unzip the sky and make those infedels without knowledge float above the ground. Time for you to see Life of Brian again. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Feb 01, 1999 at 00:58:15 (EST)
From: a vintage premie Email: None To: Jim Subject: Give it a try ! Message: I've known Maharaji since 1971, lived with him, lived apart. Lived in the ashram, lived alone, and one thing remains the same, knowledge is not easy but it works. I don't understand why you guys who are so against Maharaji and knowledge spend so much time stressing yourself out on this site. If it's not for you why not go find something that is? Life is beautiful, but not if your pissed off all the time and caught in something you can't quite leave. Why not take one thing from Maharaji, something he repeats many times - 'If you don't like it - WALK.' Give it a try. But remember, if you walk away and years go by, and you're still looking for something, the door is always open (if you're serious). Personally I am very happy to know Maharaji and to practise knowledge, and despite a very busy schedule it is always a pleasure to sit and practise, whatever the outcome it somehow always feels good. Sorry guys, but there is something here. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Feb 01, 1999 at 20:25:08 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: a vintage premie Subject: Give it a try ! Message: I've known Maharaji since 1971, lived with him, lived apart. Lived in the ashram, lived alone, and one thing remains the same, knowledge is not easy but it works. I don't understand why you guys who are so against Maharaji and knowledge spend so much time stressing yourself out on this site. If it's not for you why not go find something that is? Life is beautiful, but not if your pissed off all the time and caught in something you can't quite leave. Hey Vintage, This kind of 'reductionism' can be pretty misleading. You know, 'one thing remains the same' kind of talk. There are lots of different 'one things' if you want to open your mind a bit: One thing remains the same, Maharaji failed to fulfill any of the things he promised. OTRTS, M's just another human being and not the Lord or any of the kind despite all the ways he tricked us into thinking he was. OTRTS, M, like anyone else, has to answer for his actions. And on and on and ON! Why not take one thing from Maharaji, something he repeats many times - 'If you don't like it - WALK.' Give it a try. But remember, if you walk away and years go by, and you're still looking for something, the door is always open (if you're serious). Personally I am very happy to know Maharaji and to practise knowledge, and despite a very busy schedule it is always a pleasure to sit and practise, whatever the outcome it somehow always feels good. Sorry guys, but there is something here. The 'something there' is what? Do you have any idea? I say it's just your brain. Do you know otherwise? And as for m's 'take it or leave it' talk, this is just a feature of k-lite. It sure wasn't the way he talked to me at the ashram-premie only satsangs in the late 70s. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Feb 01, 1999 at 10:27:23 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: Nil Subject: WRONG! Message: Nil: I personally KNEW about ALL of the techniques PRIOR to even hearing about M. Try reading a few books from SRF or from other RahdaSoami groups. M taught me NOTHING about the techniques that I didn't know already. Problem was, they 'used' to work, but when I met M, they stopped! Explain that! Here, I'll help you: M required total devotion and surrender, much to the detriment of meditation. He DEMANDED devotion to a physical being (himself), which, by default, means that you are attaching yourself to the physical, NOT detaching from it. So there it is, in your own new-age language (e.g. there is nothing in what I said that is substantive or provable... just the way you guys like it!)! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Feb 01, 1999 at 19:52:02 (EST)
From: Nil Email: None To: Mike Subject: WRONG! Message: Mike, the fact that you 'knew' the techniques 'cause you read about them in 'a few books from SRF or from other RahdaSoami groups' is the first thing you said that prooves you're an idiot. To think that anything of worth can be imparted by 2 demensional static pages in a book demonstrates the pea-sized understanding you have of the nature and depth of human existance. The second is the assumption on your part that I am a 'new-age thinker', when I'm not. You've really bought the party line of your compadres hook-line-and-sinker, haven't you? You're attempt to paint the lanscape in either black or white represents the arrogance and laziness going into the simplistic world view that so many of you mindless 'parrots' get off on. And your explanation about how devotion takes away from meditation is LAUGHABLE.... where did you come up with that one Mike? So Mike, have you ever had an original thought in your life... I mean one that made sense to people other than morons or web-based hate groups? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Feb 01, 1999 at 20:01:05 (EST)
From: gerry Email: None To: Nil Subject: Gotta love the guy... Message: Dear Nil, You're getting better with each post. Are you sure you're not Keith? So we can't learn anything worthwhile from books, huh? That's just precious. Love, gerry Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, Feb 02, 1999 at 10:11:48 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: Nil Subject: Bait, bait, bait.... Message: Nil: That's all you can do, isn't it. Tell me Nil, what original 'thoughts' have YOU had, hmmmm? YOU most certainly ARE a new age thinker, Nil. Stop lying to yourself long enough to see it. Learning about PHYSICAL techniques from a BOOK isn't idiocy, it's literacy. The fact that you squeeze your eyeballs and see phosgenes or plug your ears and hear your level of tinnitus or 'feel' the vibration of your own personal 'wheezing' or like the taste of your own snot while plugging your nasal cavity with your tongue doesn't mean it can't be learned from a book. It means YOU have been fooled by your supreme LARD into believing they are anything else. I just LOVE your definition of a 'hate group.' You may think that you are being 'original,' but you are not. Your definition is obvious: ANYONE THAT DISAGREES WITH ME is a hate group. What a moronic way to define hate! By the way, THAT seems to be the current definition used by MANY morons, like yourself. No original thought displayed by you there! So tell me Nil, HOW REALIZED ARE YOU? Are you liberated yet? After years of useless practice and pranams to the holy lotus boot, have you realized the INFINITE? Why not? What's taking you so long? Are you an idiot? Don't you get 'it' yet? By the way, aren't YOU SUPPOSED to be mindless????? That's what your 'his ass-holiness' says! So why are you picking on mindless ones? If you would REALLY like a list of 'original' thoughts from me, you had better be heavy into Astrophysics; are you ready? Oh, I'm sorry, I forgot... You don't read 2-dimensional books or reports, do you? Well so much for having an intelligent discussion with you. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Feb 01, 1999 at 02:52:45 (EST)
From: Jethro Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: Give it a try ! Message: Hey JM, It's wonderful owning one's own life! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Feb 01, 1999 at 22:16:24 (EST)
From: Jan Email: None To: Jethro Subject: Do you really own it?... Message: ...Then how can it be taken away from you one day? What Maharaji should have said is, 'Give me the reigns of your life and I'll give them back to you'. That's what happened to me, but in the process he taught me something precious that I'll have as a gift for the rest of my life. But think about it Jed... if you weren't able to give him the reigns, but tried and gave up, would there not be a propensity to believe this is all a fraud? Yeah, yeah... you say, 'But I DID give him the reigns and I didn't get anything in return'. Did you really? ...It's all too easy to go through the motions (ashram premies were masters at it). But, to really do it is not easy... it takes real trust. My point is this: We all live in a separate reality with very few (if any) universal points of reference. You have no way of knowing (FOR SURE) the valididty of claims of people who trust him and speak highly of his gift. For me, having Knowledge has been a liberating breath of fresh air and I continue to commit myself with pleasure. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Feb 01, 1999 at 22:49:28 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Jan Subject: Think, Jan, think Message: My point is this: We all live in a separate reality with very few (if any) universal points of reference. You have no way of knowing (FOR SURE) the valididty of claims of people who trust him and speak highly of his gift. Just like you have no way of knowing what premies were simply 'going through the motions', right? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Feb 01, 1999 at 23:20:02 (EST)
From: Jab Email: None To: Jim Subject: Think, Jim, think Message: Just like you have no way of knowing what premies were simply 'going through the motions', right? Sure I do. It's easy to sound the depths of a person's experience. I do it every day in my working life. If you can't tell when someone's heart is not into it, you're probably out of touch with your own. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, Feb 02, 1999 at 04:47:33 (EST)
From: Jethro Email: None To: Jan Subject: Do you really own it?... Message: '...Then how can it be taken away from you one day? What Maharaji should have said is, 'Give me the reigns of your life and I'll give them back to you'. ' Did you ever tell HIM what he should have said? 'That's what happened to me, but in the process he taught me something precious that I'll have as a gift for the rest of my life.' Really? You mean he didn't give you peace but gave you back what was already yours? Could you please expand on that without too much 'premie-speak'. 'But think about it Jed... if you weren't able to give him the reigns, but tried and gave up, would there not be a propensity to believe this is all a fraud? ' Conscious investigation is the way to find out if it is a fraud. 'Yeah, yeah... you say, 'But I DID give him the reigns and I didn't get anything in return'. ' Please explain what you mean by 'giving hin the reigns of my life'. 'Did you really? ...' I'll happily answer that when I know what YOU mean. 'It's all too easy to go through the motions (ashram premies were masters at it). ' Were you an ashram premie? 'But, to really do it is not easy... it takes real trust.' Yes it does take REAL trust. That's where his abuse comes in.Again were you an ashram premie? Did you have that trust? ' My point is this: We all live in a separate reality with very few (if any) universal points of reference. ' So are you saying that The Knowledge of all Knowledges is not THE univesal point of reference? 'You have no way of knowing (FOR SURE) the valididty of claims of people who trust him and speak highly of his gift. ' Any ashram premie would know FOR SURE. 'For me, having Knowledge has been a liberating breath of fresh air and I continue to commit myself with pleasure. ' Hey Jan(or is it Jab :>), weren't you for a short time an instructor. Or am I thinking of another Jan(Jan G.)? Regards Jethro Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jan 30, 1999 at 10:39:13 (EST)
From: Scott T. Email: None To: Mike Subject: Authority, a Whiggish view. Message: Mike: In all fairness, there are some practices that are both difficult and rewarding. Getting an advanced degree, for instance. They usually involve some sort of delayed gratification (which in the case of a Ph.D. is misguided). It is possible that some might get advantage or inspiration from a coach, or counselor, etc., in order to strengthen the resolve to delay gratification. My contention is, however, that objectively M has no credentials for that role. Therefore, if someone views him as having an inspirational role it is based on a need to believe in M's, or someone's, fundamental superiority. (These people are congenital Tories.) In addition, he doesn't have much competition, except for his brother. If Maharaji says he's a coach or counselor then why doesn't he provide his services on a contractual basis? As soon as you get to your destination, or are satisfied that you can fend for yourself, you stop paying. In the mean time you pay a set fee. But, that might provide an objective view about his supposed mystical 'participation.' Point being, he is held to be a good deal more than an inspirational coach, etc., no matter what Mel says. -Scott Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Feb 01, 1999 at 10:22:03 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: Scott T. Subject: no argument, but Message: Scott: You are mixing apples and oranges here. If someone is after an advanced degree, they KNOW it's real and they KNOW it's attainable! There is no faith involved in the process, no 'trust me's,' no pie-in-the-sky-isms. BIG DIFFERENCE! The point that I was making was that the ELK premies write all of this garbage about their 'hearts leaping' everyday when they arise, etc, etc. If THAT were true, EXTERNAL inspiration would be redundant and totally unnecessary. The EXTERNAL inspiration is required because they are getting nowhere (really) and the brainwashing must be refreshed. I'm not talking about meditation (by itself) getting you 'nowhere,' it's the devotion (to the detriment of meditation) that's getting them nowhere FAST! I think that some forum folks are actually experiencing 'something' when they meditate and I think they are experiencing MORE of it than premies due to the fact that they meditate for the sake of meditation, NOT as a devotional method. In other words, ex's aren't overladen with the 'weight' of devotion to our dear lard! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Feb 01, 1999 at 18:26:59 (EST)
From: Scottage Cheese Email: None To: Mike Subject: no argument, but Message: Mike: I'm sick today with the flu so in my delerium I misspelled my name. Sorry. Anyhow, I know that the situation with regard to a spiritual goal is different in that the goal is subjective and/or indeterminate. However, I don't see that that situation necessarily invalidates a contractual approach. The subjectivity and indeterminacy make assessments more difficult, but not impossible. Furthermore, an explicit contract would move some of the hidden assumptions out into the open, providing premies and followers with more power in the relationship. I often kept myself going in my quest for an advanced degree by getting involved in aspects of the day to day work that I considered interesting. My opinion is that a coach under those circumstances could still be of value. I think a spiritual coach could also be of value, for even though some experiences might be 'blissful' most will not. I don't think a path strewn with rose petals would have very much at the end of it. This, as you point out accurately, involves misrepresentation on part of the Guru, and in my mind should disqualify him as a coach. Moving some of the tacit agreements out in the open would almost certainly be empowering for followers, and disempowering for the 'master,' because these misrepresentations would be revealed. I know it's not cut and dried, but it is worth consideration. -Scott Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Feb 01, 1999 at 18:47:00 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: Scottage Cheese Subject: A contract, now there's Message: Scott: Yeah, that flu is going around here, too. Nasty little bug according to my wife. I haven't caught it, yet. I'm lucky; I'm immune to most flu viri, but some do get me. Hey, now THERE's and idea..... A guru contract. I meditate a couple hours a day (do service, satsang, etc) and YOU guarantee liberation within a specified timeframe. It sure would take the pressure out of the situation, wouldn't it? The next question is: Which guru will be the first to sign it? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Feb 01, 1999 at 23:50:10 (EST)
From: Scott T. Email: None To: Mike Subject: A contract, now there's Message: Mike: This flu is more like a severe cold. Very wierd. I've been eating vitamin C and Zinc as though they were candy. I think it helps. Seriously, I don't think the guarantee need be that specific. You can't have a conventional contract for the simple reason that the 'deliverable' is not conventional. But, a contractual agreement that specifies that both parties make a sincere effort, and that either party can exit upon non-performance, (the principle of sovereignty) would at least take some of the mystique out of the imponderables. It would be immanently obvious, for instance, that no matter how liberal you might be in defining the 'deliverable' very few of M's followers would report satisfaction. As the years go on, we have been able to compare the results of 'M, S and S' with the results of sky or scuba diving, exercise, literature, and other forms of the spiritual life. Most would agree that M was vastly overpaid for whatever service he provided, and he would probably not be fairing so well were he held to any sort of standard for performance. This is more a thought experiment than an actual proposal, however. -Scott Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jan 30, 1999 at 14:18:33 (EST)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Mike Subject: Right on the head, Jerry! Message: Dear Mike and Jerry, I do still do the word and light and always saw the meditation as an ability every human being had. I DO NOT think it is tied to BM at all, never was. I think I did more of the devotional stuff to fit in but never thought my meditation experience 'came from' BM. I also never was told, thank god, to imagine the phrase So Hung or to picture the BM on a swing, if that isn't just fucked up, what is with that, Geez! I just wanted to add my 2 cents since I did have some very powerful meditaional experiences and still value meditation today. Love, Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jan 29, 1999 at 23:07:19 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Mel Bourne Subject: My turn! My turn! Message: I understand that most myths are based on true and actual events and take the 'fantasic' qualities while being distorted by the constant retelling over generations. Your 'understanding' is ridiculous. Try this, Mel: SOME myths are based on true events, MANY are not. For example, think of all the creation myths slopping around in peoples' imaginations since time immemorial (haven't said THAT word in a while!). Think of all the gods and goddesses we've dreamt of. The heavens and hells. No, your statement is outrageously wrong. What else you got here? Let me see .... Oh, here's one. Why it's the very next one too! David claims most people who ever got k have split and you say: Quite a sweeping statement don't you think, David? What objective source do you base your statistics on. Has some one done some verifiable statistical research on numbers receiving knowledge and later having 'nothing to do with it'? Please quote your sources. Well, Mel, I'd say you're only entitled to put David through his paces if you've got a reasonable challenge to his claim. Do you? Do YOU think he's wrong? Never mind the evidence, what does your experience in the cult tell you? Think of a community phone list from 1973. What community? Any community. YOUR community. Ask yourself what percentage of those people still have anything at all to do with m or k. Then think of a phone list for 1981. Same questions, how many do you tihnk are still around? Are THEY the same people? How many who were on that earlier list were still on the '81 list. Then think about how many names on that 81 list might ahve still been there but really had already left for good. Then think of the 1985 phone list. Same exercise. 1992? Same thing. 1999? How many people from 1973 are still on that '99 list? How many AREN'T? How many from '81 are still on the '99 list? How many aren't? And so on. Then think about when the most people came. Was it in the seventies when DLM was growing like wildfire? Yeah, I think so. (Here's a quote from the back of 'Who is Guru Maharaj Ji?': Why do more than six million people around the world claim that he is the greatest incarnation of God to ever trod the face of this planet? Why do Christian priests claim that he has taught them the way to love? Why do Hindus refer to him as the Swan Avatar? Why does revolutionary and future insurancle salesman Rennie Davis claim that Guru Maharaj Ji is 'already the brightest event in the history of the planet?' Why have more than 280 centers of Guru Maharaj Ji's Divine Light Mission sprung up in American in the last two years -- all devoted to furthering his promise: 'I will establish peace in the world!' (emphasis mine) ) I lived in eight communities as a premie in the seventies and early eighties. (Eight? Maybe nine if you include L.A. where I detoxified). I knew a LOT of Canadian premies over the years. I KNOW that the biggest phone lists by far are the early ones and that most everyone on them is long gone. But what do you say? Do YOU honestly think otherwise? Then you disagree with David's argument that premies need to keep hearing m in order to convince them their lives have meaning. You say: I would disagree with this, I think most premies listen to M in order to get the inspiration to continuing the practice. Some I guess, may need convincing that their lives have meaning, but I suspect that it may be far fewer than you think. Again, another sweeping statement of 'ex premie' opinion and myth masquarading as 'fact' Mel, take a look at today's possibly fake life story from ELK. The woman write, among other things, that: 'I was 27 when somebody invited me to come to a video event of Maharaji. I still remember very vividly when I came out of the hall smiling from ear to ear, although nothing made a lot of sense. That day my life started to change and nobody (including me) had any idea how things would evolve, but I kept going to every event I could after that.' 'At that time I had a serious problem with my health and I was in a lot of pain. Despite this every day was like a celebration for me, the colours were brighter and I was completely in love with life because I had heard that Maharaji was giving Knowledge: a way a person can turn inside and be in touch with themselves.' You say that premies just get inspired by m to meditate -- SORRY! -- practise, so they can continue in their practise. First, I completely agree with those who make the wonderful point that the experience itself should provide that inspiration. But, beside that, tell me that this woman, who claims to have not understood what she heard to begin with, then experiences 'magic' in her life all BEFORE she's able to 'practise', indeed before she's able to even understand what she's heard. This looks like an entirely different process than what you describe. Anyway, your thoughts? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jan 29, 1999 at 23:10:20 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Jim Subject: oops! I spilled my HTML again Message: Thanks Katie or Brian, if you get aroudn to fixing it. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sun, Jan 31, 1999 at 00:45:14 (EST)
From: Mel Bourne Email: None To: Jim Subject: My turn! a rain check Message: Hi Jim Good to hear from you again I will get back to the points you've mentioned in greater detail later... but first I am totally amazed with the volume. of your reply (I mean quantity). Do you use voice activated word processing software? I guess you must being a lawyer and all. Imagine typing all those legal documents with two fingers! At the moment I am still using two fingered typing (no comments!) but hope to install voice activated software soon. Presently I am unable to respond to your posts with the attention they really deserve. Voice software will mean more spontaneous and detailed responses able to be quickly constructed and sent and at the same time taking pressure off me caused by my family's computer access needs. Any way....very brief response to your comments 1. Try this, Mel: SOME myths are based on true events, MANY are not Jim this is just semantics, I said 'most', you said 'some', and then you go on to use the creation myths as examples of 'many' myths that are not based on true events. Cunningly selective, Jim, but what about the other myths that recount the heros of yesteryear (eg the Odssey, Ramayana, etc, etc) which would account a greater proportion of the world stock of 'myth' than just the 'creation Myth'. Obviously Troy would never have been discovered if Sliemann had subscribed to your theory of myths not being based on events. 2. You give a vey well reasoned methodology of how (theorectically) statistics may compiled to research whether people have left knowledge or not. However this presupposes, of course, that people drop off mailing lists because they no longer practice. There may be other reasons, and anyway your theory no longer holds true as 'communities' have not been in existance for some years, and although there maybe still some membership lists available, they would by no means be exhaustive. Your argument is fine based on theory but cannot be considered as an objective way to assess numbers. Anyway, David was the one concerned about numbers still practising, not me! I couldn't really care less how many are practising or not, it doesn't affect my experience at all. 3. As for the experience alone being able to inspire the continuing experience of Knowledge, how I wish it were the case. Unfortunately though it is not, and my experience of Knowledge has been aided by listening to and seeing Maharaji. I don't have any difficulty with, it is based in the practical reality of experiencing Knowledge rather than a conjecture that you and others suggest. I know that before I received Knowledge, I felt an experience of 'being at home' or 'peace' which inspired me to receive it, so I have no problem with the example you quote from ELK. Hope this suffices for now Mel Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sun, Jan 31, 1999 at 12:29:46 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Mel Bourne Subject: you're still evasive Message: Cunningly selective, Jim, but what about the other myths that recount the heros of yesteryear (eg the Odssey, Ramayana, etc, etc) which would account a greater proportion of the world stock of 'myth' than just the 'creation Myth'. Okay, so there are all these examples of both kinds of myths. Fine, where does that get us? In the 'some' area, Mel. If you want to get to 'most' you're going to have to prove it. My common sense in no way supports that assumption. Unless you've got some evidence, your claim is empty. 2. You give a vey well reasoned methodology of how (theorectically) statistics may compiled to research whether people have left knowledge or not. However this presupposes, of course, that people drop off mailing lists because they no longer practice. There may be other reasons, and anyway your theory no longer holds true as 'communities' have not been in existance for some years, and although there maybe still some membership lists available, they would by no means be exhaustive. Your argument is fine based on theory but cannot be considered as an objective way to assess numbers. Anyway, David was the one concerned about numbers still practising, not me! I couldn't really care less how many are practising or not, it doesn't affect my experience at all. But, like usual, you missed my point which was that this was just an example of how one might consider the question. Again, I'm appealling to what's left of your common sense and asking if you don't agree that more people have left over the years than not. Whether or not you 'care' is beside the point. You challenged David's claim and I'm asking you if your own experience supports your doing so. I say it can't possibly. If you say it does I'd ask you how that is. 3. As for the experience alone being able to inspire the continuing experience of Knowledge, how I wish it were the case. Unfortunately though it is not, and my experience of Knowledge has been aided by listening to and seeing Maharaji. I don't have any difficulty with, it is based in the practical reality of experiencing Knowledge rather than a conjecture that you and others suggest. I know that before I received Knowledge, I felt an experience of 'being at home' or 'peace' which inspired me to receive it, so I have no problem with the example you quote from ELK. You have no problem with the ELK example because you're thick as a brick. Mel, I have yet to be impressed by a single thought or argument you have to offer. What I see consistently is an inferior mind that keeps trying to present itself with unrealistic sophistication. Like some bum walking around town in a three-piece suit. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Feb 01, 1999 at 09:04:27 (EST)
From: Mel Bourne Email: mbvictoria@hotmail.com To: Jim Subject: evasion to the MAX !!!! Message: Jim Your usual insulting self, I see. I'm quite certain that your definition of 'evasive' applies to anyone who disagrees with you, possibly because you belief them to be 'evading' issue by not giving you the answers you want to hear! Again, I'm appealling to what's left of your common sense and asking if you don't agree that more people have left over the years than not. Appeal away, Jim, there is no evidence (irrespective of my or anyone else's commonsense) that clearly proves David's assertion. Come on Jim, you're a lawyer, you would obviously expect watertight evidence in your court room, why should you be selective and lower your standards on this issue (unless may be it's because David is an 'ex', and objectivity can be sacrificed because of this. Am I right or am I right?) You have no problem with the ELK example because you're thick as a brick. Mel, I have yet to be impressed by a single thought or argument you have to offer. What I see consistently is an inferior mind that keeps trying to present itself with unrealistic sophistication. Like some bum walking around town in a three-piece suit. This statement demonstrates your inablity to stay above personal insult when you are confronted with an assertion that you completely disagree with. I have no interest in your being impressed with any of my thoughts or arguments, because you clearly reveal yourself as a total bigot. Your reference to my 'inferior' mind clearly demonstrates your arrogance.... [aside].... and anyway, folks, what's wrong with being a bum in a three-piece suit! Jim, I know you like to have the last word, and can't bear to loose an argument, but please don't let your overwhelming anti-Maharji sentiments cloud your logic. It's a shame how hatred can pervert such a brilliant mind! Gee, how I love evasion! Does this post give you the answers you wanted to hear,Jim? Probably not... Oh well, can't please everyone,I guess! Mel Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Feb 01, 1999 at 11:00:58 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Mel Bourne Subject: evasion to the MAX !!!! Message: For 'evasive' I'll go with Oxford again: 1) seeking to evade something 2) not direct in one's answers etc. 3) enabling or affecting evasion 4) (of a person) tending to evasion; habitually practising evasion Oxford defines 'evasion' as: 1) the act of evading 2) a subterfuge or prevaricating excuse 3) an evasive answer That works. You can say whatever you want about me, the fact is your answers are evasive. They don't respond DIRECTLY to the questions. That's apparent to anyone who reads them, Mel. There's no point arguing it. (You might try instead arguing that you 'don't have to answer my stupid questions' or 'you did before and all I did was twist your honest, heartfelt words so why should you expose your true feelings again' or 'you've already answered these questions and more and it's not your fault that no one remembers' or you 'don't have the time to play this game' or something like that. Those are all stupid things to say, of course, but they're better than trying to deny that you're being evasive. I mean that REALLY doesn't work. Maybe the otehrs won't either but that one fails for sure.) Appeal away, Jim, there is no evidence (irrespective of my or anyone else's commonsense) that clearly proves David's assertion. Come on Jim, you're a lawyer, you would obviously expect watertight evidence in your court room, why should you be selective and lower your standards on this issue (unless may be it's because David is an 'ex', and objectivity can be sacrificed because of this. Am I right or am I right?) See what I mean? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jan 28, 1999 at 21:19:41 (EST)
From: Scott T. Email: None To: Maharaji Subject: You're a little mixed up, Merl Message: M: Although I recognize the important role of myth in culture and society, as far as I know neither Merlin nor Arthur had much to do with the quest for the Holy Grail. You must be thinking of Parcifal, perhaps? It's a great story, but not the one you're talking about. Makes me wonder what sort of guide you'd be. -Scott Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jan 28, 1999 at 23:10:53 (EST)
From: Sir David Email: None To: Scott T. Subject: How about this, Maharaji Message: Here's an idea, Maharaji. Let's cut the crap completely. Stop pretending you're some great master, even less, the Lord of the Universe, get down off your throne and lets all have a laff. And I'll share some info with you on the video business, which is my business too. In short, Maharaji; we're not children here. We're no longer gullable youths all starry eyed and naive like. We know the score. We're all humans here. Not an avatar amongst us. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jan 30, 1999 at 00:36:40 (EST)
From: VP Email: None To: Sir David Subject: How about this, Sir David-ot Message: David, Just got around to seeing the movie 'Boogie Nights' this week. What a film! Is that the kind of video buisness you are in? VP Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jan 30, 1999 at 00:38:34 (EST)
From: VP Email: None To: all Subject: should've been 'business'-nt Message: whoops. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jan 30, 1999 at 10:53:09 (EST)
From: Sir Dave Email: None To: VP Subject: How about this, Sir David-ot Message: Most of the videos I deal with aren't for children. The same must go for Maharaji's videos too. But then his are for adult children since to appreciate them one must assume an infantile relationship with the 'master'. But once people grow up, they see his videos (and him) for what it is. An emotionally immature man who has never really grown up himself. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jan 29, 1999 at 00:10:57 (EST)
From: chr Email: None To: Maharaji Subject: I am Merlin the Magician Message: Myths and legends are an integral part of a culture and they do contain symbolic and archetypal truths. They are also often the historical facts clothed in a mantle of parable and poetry. Unfortunately it is an insult to the depths of these myths for M to make comparisons with himself and K. Its a bit like comparing a comic book to a Shakespearian tragedy.These days I find his discourses shallow, vacuous and full of misinformation. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jan 29, 1999 at 11:26:53 (EST)
From: Selene Email: None To: chr Subject: I am Merlin the Magician Message: I suspect his talks disintegrate since He never had to PROVE himself to anyone. His devotees, er followers, er students all take it in in one blissed out fecal pile. So, he can spout out anything. Sort of like a creative writing brainstorm, like how I enjoy playing with Red Nighty Chronicles. But then, we of the Nighty are not trying to convert anyone to Red Nightyism. But I WILL accept donations - only if you want to. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jan 28, 1999 at 17:18:12 (EST)
From: d@vid Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Has anyone else noticed... Message: Has anyone else noticed the new Internet-friendly, on-line Maharaji recently? It's coming to a screen near you very soon. Click here for a sneak preview of how slick and understated it's going to be. And in the meantime, there's a very sophisticated site taking shape at a site being created by an old UK Divine Times colleague of mine at http://www.enjoying life.org. It has some nice touches (click here) . What are we to make of it all? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jan 28, 1999 at 17:22:51 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: d@vid Subject: 'Mornin', Rip Message: David, Nice to hear from you. Wow, the premies have a web site? And Maharaji too? Will wonders never cease? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jan 28, 1999 at 17:31:37 (EST)
From: d@vid Email: None To: Jim Subject: 'Evenin', Rip Message: Hi Jim... howya doin'? What do you make of it all this pro-Maharaji Internet activity? Is it a sign of things to come? It will be interesting to see how it all develops. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jan 28, 1999 at 17:50:06 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: d@vid Subject: 'Evenin', Rip Message: Hi Jim... howya doin'? What do you make of it all this pro-Maharaji Internet activity? Is it a sign of things to come? Fine, thanks. And you? I guess Maharaji realized two things: 1) he couldn't avoid the net forever; and 2) he'd be able to make money on it. I'm sure his own web site will generate income somehow. Even if it's only to keep the premies up on all the new videos. Have you been lurking at all? And which of your former DT cohorts are involved in ELK? Check out the trick Nigel and a few of us pulled on them some last fall. (There's a link to it somewhere on this site.) Nice to hear from you. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jan 28, 1999 at 18:00:18 (EST)
From: d@vid Email: None To: Jim Subject: 'Evenin', Rip Message: Have you been lurking at all? No, not a lot. I really felt like I was at the wrong party. You know how it is. You talk to someone and you can just see their eyes glazing over. And which of your former DT cohorts are involved in ELK? I discovered some names I hadn't heard of for 25 years. I was totally amazed that they were still involved with Maharaji. It made me think that maybe they were right and I was wrong... but hey, that can't be, CAN IT?!! Check out the trick Nigel and a few of us pulled on them some last fall. (There's a link to it somewhere on this site.) Where, where? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jan 28, 1999 at 18:08:55 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: d@vid Subject: 'Evenin', Rip Message: Where, where? Go to the site index. It's there under 'Enjoying Life Exposed'. Gotta go now. Let me know what you think. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jan 28, 1999 at 18:14:14 (EST)
From: douche Email: None To: d@vid Subject: 'Evenin', Rip Message: Why oh why oh why... aaarrrggghhh I just died on the Internet. It's a first for cyberspace... a contact from the world beyond death. Welcome to the nightmare... What if Maharaji is the BIG LORD CHEESE OF ALL THAT'S NICE? Where does that put us when the line divides between the chaff and the geese? Everlasting doom, that's where. Darkness... Gnashing of teeth... Wailing moans of the forever-dead.... Howl... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jan 28, 1999 at 19:37:57 (EST)
From: Selene Email: None To: Jim Subject: 'Evenin', Rip Message: I hear there is this computer GENIOUS here in Tucson that could really contribute to the Maharaji web development team. Why she has her own VERY lucrative web business, etc... Are you ears burning - you know who you are...... HAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jan 28, 1999 at 18:57:43 (EST)
From: who the hell wants to Email: None To: d@vid Subject: live next door to rawat? Message: The fraudulantly named Michele Dehradun posted this by shri rawat prems hot tempered insane father; If someone criticises you, you should build them a house next door to you and feed them every day. I know for a fact that prem rawats next door nieghbor how is a pilot doesnt like rawat. At first he did and when he knew rawat better he didn't. Same goes for marolyns family. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jan 29, 1999 at 00:00:49 (EST)
From: Gail Email: None To: who the hell wants to Subject: live next door to rawat? Message: Didn't Marolyn's father have K. I don't think the mother got involved though. I seem to remember a story about how Marolyn's father was missing. MJ said he knew where he was. MJ went to a fish & chip joint to find him eating flesh. Of course, the story Kathy Siddick mentioned was that Marolyn's father was so embarrassed about eating the fish. MJ, very graciously, told him there was no hurry and that he should finish his meal. On the topic of vegetarian diets, MJ boasts that he never said premies had to be vegetarian. 'You can be a vegetarians. You can eat the vegetarians. It doesn't matter. Whatever tickles your fancy plum tickles me pink. One night, Anne Johnson remarked that, indeed, MJ had said we should be vegetarians. In other words, he lied. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jan 29, 1999 at 00:17:14 (EST)
From: chr Email: None To: Gail Subject: live next door to rawat? Message: Yes Marolyns father did receive K, in 78,I think. He came along to some of the programs-Denver 79 etc.Dont know what his involvement is now. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jan 29, 1999 at 00:26:04 (EST)
From: Gail Email: None To: chr Subject: He's deceased! (NT) Message: DEAD! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jan 29, 1999 at 02:31:16 (EST)
From: chr Email: None To: Gail Subject: He's deceased! (NT) Message: I guess that means he's not practising K anymore. Seriously ,though, he did always look uncomfortable around the whole scene.I saw him a couple of times and that was my impression. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jan 29, 1999 at 01:18:49 (EST)
From: Jethro Email: None To: Gail Subject: live next door to rawat? Message: '.......Marolyn's father was so embarrassed about eating the fish. MJ, very graciously, told him there was no hurry and that he should finish his meal.' I remember that one, we all thought that prem was sooooooooo compassionate(barf)...it was the subject of premie-satasangs for ages. You know, I really do feel so bad about the wastage of so many years. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Feb 01, 1999 at 10:01:54 (EST)
From: Helen Email: None To: Jethro Subject: The gospel of the fish dinner Message: Yes isn't that nuts that we attributed divine compassion to normal human manners. I mean, any normal person would allow another person to finish their dinner, wouldn't they? But when Maharaji would do something gracious, oh it was just sooooo beautiful (maybe because most of the time he was such an asshole). Jesus! Oh yes, the parable of the fish dinner & Marolyn's father--I think it should be written up as a new gospel and put in the New Testament Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jan 29, 1999 at 01:34:06 (EST)
From: syd Email: syd@gold.ac.uk To: d@vid Subject: Has anyone else noticed... Message: What are we to make of it all? The web's been around for several years and the net for much longer. The only recent change is that in the past year it has been widely talked up as a way of making money. Syd Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jan 29, 1999 at 08:08:42 (EST)
From: ex-mug Email: None To: syd Subject: Has anyone else noticed... Message: personally, I think that GM should 'get a life' - :) what a major hypocrite this guy really is - and this means: deceiver, pretender, pharisee, dissembler, imposter, feigner, humbug, cheat....... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jan 28, 1999 at 16:54:55 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Yet another question for op Message: Hi op, I'm so sorry you had to bail out of this recent discussion you started. You attacked Katie because of your own well-deserved paranoia and didn't have the courage or class to stick around and deal with the matter. Too bad for you, sweetheart. But anyway, today's a NEW DAY and I've got a NEW QUESTION. In a post the other day you 'clarified' as follows: I think it's clarification time again: So-called magazine events take place only in remote areas, where people do not have electricity or access to electronic equipment. In some places, mahatmas (i.e. Indian instructors) travel with a generator and a tv/vcr setup. But in others, even that is difficult to get together. Thus, people read the transcripts from M's recent events. These transcripts are provided in a magazine called Shabd Brahm. Believe it or not, there are some people who still read for entertainment - not so long ago on this continent, families got together and read Robinson Crusoe or The Swiss Family Robinson to each other - not to mention the Bible. I want to ask you about this sceniaro and the comparison it may or may not evoke in light of the following sample 'expressions' from your fellow cult members. These are just a few taken from the most recent crop: Gregg Curtis-Flynn of Australia writes: 'The alarm goes off, classical music plays, and I turn it off and say to myself: 'To wake at dawn with a winged heart, and give thanks for another day of loving?'' Brian Gaudet of Edmonton (the same guy who cued up his ghetto blaster with m's 'DON'T CHITCHAT!!' satsang and came down and played it for us in the ashram dining room when we were sitting around talking, having a few laughs) writes: 'Today I discovered 'Expressions' and more again. For the last few weeks I have been unable to click on anything below 'Remembrances' on the navigation bar. I thought it was something to do with the website, but it wasn't and, today I rediscovered how to access 'Expressions' and my heart leapt.' Sue Raven, my old friend who last week told me to get a life and stop throwing up, writes: 'I am sitting here reading all these expressions of appreciation and love and it's way too late and I need to go to bed... in just a minute. This is so beautiful...tears are falling softly and I am so glad to be alive. Thank you, Maharaji.' Christopher Tardieu of New York writes: After 25 years I still get blown out by introductory programs. Everything Maharaji says today, he said 25 years ago and the it's still the same sweet joy. I continue to practice Knowledge with more and more sweetness everyday, knowing that nothing compares to the magnificence of this feeling. Thank you, Maharaji, for that sweet joy that never changes. Anyway, there are a million examples. Examples of what, you ask? Examples of premies using more and more sickly sweet or weirdly square and wooden language and imagery. What I want to know is, do you think you guys are starting to sound like another dumb religion or what? 'Magazine events'? Come on, op, you've got a sense of humour, don't you? Don't you see something lusciously awkward here? And 'hearts leaping for joy', 'winged hearts awaking to give thanks for another day of loving'? 'Sweet joy' that just yields 'more and more sweetness every day'? Tell me this, op. Do you not agree that the premies SOUND like they're in a cult? I'm not asking if they are. That's another question. I'm asking you if you think they would SOUND like they are to anyone reading them. What's the one thing cult's can't tolerate? The universal thing cult's can't accomodate whether they're political cults like Maoist China or religious cults like Maharaji's thing? I'll tell you what I think it is: irony. No cult can't tolerate irony about the feelings its members are supposed to cultivate. Now what happens when you don't allow irony? You get excessive language seeping in. Here's a different kind of example. Recently you might have seen an item on the news about 'Buzzword Bingo'. Employees take their 'bingo cards' complete with all sorts of modern corporate buzzwords (e.g. 'synchronization', 'utilize') in to meetings with management and try to score by spotting instances of usage by their employers. Now maybe the employees themselves are powerless to confront their bosses but, seeing that the corporate world is not a fully contained cult, and its memebers are allowed to think for themselves, these jokes and such have a way of getting around and deflating some of the excess that otherwise settles into the corporate culture. But premies, as we know, are NOT allowed to think for themselves. They're NOT allowed to poke a little fun at m. There ARE no premie humour columns taking the piss out of the high and mighty. Thus there are no checks on the gradual increase of this kind of silly cult speak. Well that 's my opinion anyway. What do you think? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jan 28, 1999 at 23:51:53 (EST)
From: what is divinity op? Email: None To: Jim Subject: Yet another question for op Message: Hello OP what is divinity OP? bill. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, Feb 02, 1999 at 07:58:41 (EST)
From: Diz Email: None To: Jim Subject: Yet another question for op Message: Hi Jim This thread's getting down towards inactive, so thought I'd add a response of sorts as op doesn't seem to be around. Good point. I don't hang out at ELK, I guess because I've heard enough of that kind of talk to last me a few years yet. But when I did take a look, I was really surprised by the cookie-cutter sweetness. Partly because I have known premies that COULD be ironic, take the piss out of some of the language and premie behaviour. Even MJ could be targetted at times. I knew a premie, for example, who talked about Mj's tendancy to give 'deathsang' - you know, all that stuff about how we're all going to DIE. And in the old days, we had dress-up parties which produced some wonderful parodies of, for example, WPC heavies. In fact, it was the ability of some premies to laugh at themselves and at aspects of the trip which reassured me that it was okay to stick around, when I was deciding whether to receive K. Interesting, because I'm a pretty serious character myself. Maybe that's why I really appreciate a good sense of humour in others. The parallel with the workplace is apt. The cartoons stuck around people's desks and in the bathrooms have got to be one of the things that makes work bearable. They point out the flaws in the prevaling ethos, and hopefully put some type of brake on the tendancy to develop every new idea from the training fraternity into a religious principle. I love the one about sticking toothbrushes on fish - have you seen that? It has a picture of a production line where people are taping one toothbrush per fish, with a caption something like 'When I first started here, I wondered about the purpose of what we were doing, but everyone seemed to know and take it for granted, so I didn't like to ask.' So why doesn't premie humour show up on ELK? Some possibilities: - because people know they need to be 100% POSITIVE when they post there - so keep their quirky views to themselves. - because there's less irony/group-think-depreciating humour around than there once was. I wonder if the emergence of a voice for 'the other side' - ie this site - has freed some premies of the need to maintain a dissenting voice within themselves: now MJ is publically under attack, they've become more fully supportive. I think the many years in which MJ himself has been the major - almost the only - voice speaking about K etc has also had its effect - people have learned the language and ideas he expresses in 'events' so thoroughly that they think they're their own. That's one reason that the re-creations which you and others come up with of ashram thought patterns are such a delight - they're DIFFERENT to the K-lite expressions, showing once again that the external trappings around the experience of meditation are a cultural creation. Diz Return to Index -:- Top of Index |