Ex-Premie.Org |
Forum III Archive # 36 | |
From: Jan 21, 1999 |
To: Feb 2, 1999 |
Page: 5 Of: 5 |
Date: Sat, Jan 23, 1999 at 06:10:50 (EST)
From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Everyone Subject: New EV 'Connect' magazine' Message: Hi guys, I've just received my copy of that latest 'Connect' ('truly portable event') magazine. 34 pages, big format, filled with m's words of wisdom. I don't know if I'm going to be able to read all this BS, I'm already sick going through it turning the pages. Content: Going global: a look at the possibilities of 'live' link-ups, a technological feat, grounded in simplicity. The video generation: from stage to screen - 'the opportunity exists to be very clear about m's message: hand them a video' K in africa Words and wisdom: 'clarity, passion, profundity, and wit on the subject of life' 'There are those who seek the answers within, and those who seek the answers outside.... One understand that the mountain that needs to be conquered is not outside, but inside' Magic in malaysia The truly portable event: 'the power of magazine events lies in their flexibility, economy and simplicity' Parts of this publication WILL BE REPRODUCED without EV's permission .... Poor poor naive premies, my friends. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Jan 23, 1999 at 08:43:25 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: No, you're kidding, right? Message: The truly portable event: 'the power of magazine events lies in their flexibility, economy and simplicity' It doesn't really say THAT, does it? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Jan 23, 1999 at 09:25:34 (EST)
From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Jim Subject: No, you're kidding, right? Message: YES, IT DOES ! I'm not kidding, anybody owning a copy of this will confirm. I'll scan the article next week and post it (without EV's permission I guess!). What's most surprising for me is that it really made me sick looking at all this pile of crap. I've not been even remotly 'inspired' by any of these articles. The general feeling you get turning the pages is that it's a wonderful cult being exposed to the public. I'm ashamed I've been a part of this. I wonder what most of the premies feel about this publication. It's more or less singing the glory of the BM and his knowledge spread all over the globe. Articles over what's happening in various continents & countries, lots of old Indian stuff to add more credibility to it's origins. I wonder who's going to believe this! IF the premies really like this, this is a sad sad sad story, truly. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Jan 23, 1999 at 15:47:42 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: Excuse me? Message: WHAT is a 'magazine event?' Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Jan 23, 1999 at 17:03:31 (EST)
From: Brian Email: brian@ex-premie.org To: JW Subject: Magazine Events and Cappuccino Message: To quote the rag: Every month at a thousand locations across the great subcontinent of India people gather to hear the words of Maharaji being read aloud. These meetings, which have enabled many thousands of people to hear about Knowledge, are known as magazine events. With a monthly circulation of 32,000, Shabda Brahm, Hindi for 'original word', provides the text from Maharaji's worldwide speaking schedule. The text is as carefully chosen as the videos: Separate events cater for different audiences: introductory, aspirant, and for those who have received Knowledge. But my favorite passage in the rag concerns the preparations for a live event in India which features the Big Guy himself: Back at the coffee shop, Pasquale is excited about the immenent arrival of a new machine. It will make six cappuccinos at a time - a 50 per cent efficiency improvement over the old device, which only made four. Within 24 hours, though, it has developed a fault. Blissfully unaware of this potentially devastating development, volunteers continue to set up the tents which will eventually comprise the westerners' Tent City. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Jan 24, 1999 at 18:15:14 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: Brian Subject: That was a joke, right? Message: nt Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Jan 25, 1999 at 15:09:41 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: JW Subject: Excuse me? What it means Message: JW: I can't believe you had to ask THAT question..... A 'magazine event' is one in which M doesn't have to make ANY input (e.g. ghost writers possible) and he doesn't have to lift his lard-ass out of a chair to attend. So that means that all of that silly 'gratitude' that premies gave for events can be used to enlarge that ass-made-of-lard. Darshan-by-mail.... a new idea for making money! I like it! Remember, if it happens, it was my idea..... he he he :-) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Jan 26, 1999 at 00:51:28 (EST)
From: op Email: None To: Mike Subject: Excuse me? What it means Message: I think it's clarification time again: So-called magazine events take place only in remote areas, where people do not have electricity or access to electronic equipment. In some places, mahatmas (i.e. Indian instructors) travel with a generator and a tv/vcr setup. But in others, even that is difficult to get together. Thus, people read the transcripts from M's recent events. These transcripts are provided in a magazine called Shabd Brahm. Believe it or not, there are some people who still read for entertainment - not so long ago on this continent, families got together and read Robinson Crusoe or The Swiss Family Robinson to each other - not to mention the Bible. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Jan 26, 1999 at 05:34:23 (EST)
From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: op Subject: It means SATSANG ! Message: Why don't you simply call it good old satsang? Why this cultish speak? WHY WHY WHY ? I've some answers ..... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Jan 26, 1999 at 10:37:41 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: op Subject: Excuse me? What it means Message: OP: I appreciate what you are saying.... no clarification was necessary, BTW. So, if these premies can't receive a video event, why doesn't M get up off his dead butt and fly THERE! Does he require an audience of thousands to get him to move? Does he require adulation on a grand scale to stir him from his financial dealings? How large does the audience have to be? Don't, under any circumstances, compare this to the bible OR Jesus. The bible was 'read on your continent' because Jesus wasn't/isn't there to do it himself. Jesus, himself, got up off his butt and would WALK miles to reach a single, solitary person. I don't know why he did it, but I DO see the obvious difference between J and M. Stop the comparison, already! There IS NO comparison. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Jan 23, 1999 at 10:06:53 (EST)
From: Brian Email: brian@ex-premie.org To: Jim Subject: It's Maharaji - It's True Message: I was sent a photocopy of the rag. One of it's features is a big map of the world ('The World Of Knowledge') with blurbs about the exciting events happening. The North American news is pretty breath-taking!! Oregon, USA - Video presentations are shown regularly throughout Oregon's rural communities, towns and cities. In the Rogue Valley of Southern Oregon 20 people with Knowledge gather twice a week, traveling from Ashland, Medford, and other places. In another city one lone person organises regular introductory events. This spreading of Knowledge is amazing, isn't it? Soon propagation may reach the remote areas of Malibu, Miami, and 'other places'. Perhaps someday even Canada or Mexico. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Jan 23, 1999 at 15:37:52 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Brian Subject: I need a moment here Message: Brian, All this talk about k spreading so rapdily makes me a bit nostalgic. Remember when it really did seem like it was spreading like wildfire? You'd call your buddy back home who just got k and he'd tell you about some other friends or people you knew who were getting sucked in. Man, those days were exciting! Okay, I'm alright now. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Jan 23, 1999 at 19:08:47 (EST)
From: barney Email: None To: Jim Subject: Easy, it's called Phase II Message: Jim, Why the shock? We were warned in advance. This is Phase II. Ok, it seems like a recycling of Phased 0 via And It Is Divine, but, as stated, magazines are portable. And that's exactly why I have copies of Hustler in every room of the house instead of TV and VCR. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Jan 23, 1999 at 21:17:25 (EST)
From: Gail Email: None To: Jim Subject: Remeber the guy who Message: shoots cats for a living. Yup! He wrote MJ to tell him how blissful everything was now that he had K. All he did was shoot animals and practise. What a great life! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Jan 25, 1999 at 15:02:22 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: Gail Subject: What?????? Message: Gail: What guy is/was this? He shoots cats for a living? This you MUST tell me about. :-) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Jan 25, 1999 at 17:15:28 (EST)
From: cat lover Email: None To: Mike Subject: What?????? Message: please, NOT on the forum! There are enuf horror stories elsewhere - not here too. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Jan 25, 1999 at 17:57:02 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: cat lover Subject: OK, I retract my Q Message: CL: I agree, but this is a premie(?) we're talking about. Maybe this is the 'bridge too far'.... he he he. So, you cat lover, what kinda cat you got? We've got a Himalayan and she's a doll! The best-natured cat I've ever known (really good with kids and other pets). Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Jan 25, 1999 at 17:57:16 (EST)
From: Gail Email: None To: animal lovers Subject: What??????--JM or OP HELP! Message: MJ talked about this guy about two or three years ago. I believe the guy lived on some SA island. Anyway, his job was to shoot cats or rats for a living (the critters weren't indigent). MJ's point was that even those with gorry jobs could find peace within via K. What a far cry from the vegetarian days, eh? When we heard this story, everyone in the room was hysterical. Actually, it seems quite appalling to me now. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Jan 25, 1999 at 18:07:05 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: Gail Subject: Thanks Gail Message: Gail: That clears it up a bit. Yeah, from the non-native species point of view, it's about the only thing they can do; even if we do relate to them as pets, here! It's THAT or we lose a valuable indigenous species that has no defense against the intruder. Certainly NOT a pleasant job. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Jan 26, 1999 at 05:38:52 (EST)
From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Gail Subject: JM : I confirm Message: I've heard that story from the BM himself, at least 2 or 3 time. And he was so proud of it! Like that laddhus story: I know of at least one woman who decided to leave the BM because of this. The BM is such a misogynist ..... and shows so much love for women! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Jan 26, 1999 at 05:42:16 (EST)
From: AJW Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: New EV 'Connect' magazine' Message: Hi Jean-Michel, How did you get hold of your copy? I wonder if it's by the same team who worked on the first edition. I was part of the editorial team myself. It was my last bit of 'service' before I flipped out and joined the heretics. Unfortunately my article on 'festival disasters' was ommited from the first edition. Don't ask, I'm not going to post it here. It's too emabarrasing. I imagine the second issue is full of the same 'Pravda' style sycophantic crap as the first one. What's the price? The first issue cost £9.00 sterling. AJW Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Jan 26, 1999 at 09:33:42 (EST)
From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: AJW Subject: Spies working for me! Message: Hi AJW, I'm really sorry, but I won't tell who gave it to me! I think I have to cover my agents. EV is doing a lot to avoid anything getting to me, and we have a lot of fun with my friends here. Pravda style: exactly, it really looks like a propaganda sheet, filled with doubtful info. You can smell it turning the pages. I think that I'll scan one of those articles and post it when I'll have some spare time for this..... I'll find one of the best ones. Editorial team: Josie & Mark Winter, Michal Story, Jonathan Cainer, Charlotte Wolff, Helge Timmerberg, Norman Silver, Michael Borden, Douglas Hetherington, Jerry Stampfer, Mitch Shapiro, Ros Sutton, Evelyn Vuko, Chitra Gyan Chand, Naomi Miller, Matilda MacAttram, S L Goel, GFlen Whittaker. Research Team: Rosie Lee, John MacClean, Jenny Perkins, Jaromir Rindler, Maria Piekarski, Glenn Craver, Nandan Gatori, John O'Sullivan, Bev Kruger, Annie Saw, Richard Lasseigne. Design Team: Corinne Lin, Dominique Lin, Carol O'Connell, Jeff Allen, Michael Wood, David Coyne, Ed Corrigan, Dennis Pedersen, Richard Robinson, Sally Cainer, Peter Vischer, Malcolm Livingstone, Joan Swan, Yvon Le Gallic, Marc Grimberg. No part of this publication may be reproduced or transmitted in any form or by any means, including electronic bla bla .... Printed by Leycol, 5 Hancock Road, London E3 3DA As for the price, I don't know! Printed in color, wonderful layout! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Jan 26, 1999 at 19:29:16 (EST)
From: syd Email: syd@gold.ac.uk To: Jean-Michel Subject: Malcolm Livingstone Message: That name sounds familiar. IS/was he a cartoonist? There was a very successful cartoonist who was a premie in London in 75/76 Syd Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jan 22, 1999 at 21:47:20 (EST)
From: shp Email: None To: Everyone Subject: an ode for the road Message: i'm not dumb i'm not numb i don't like scum i like r. crumb i hear your calls i know there's walls illusion falls you got some balls i trust my guts i am not nuts i know there's ruts and spiritual sluts i keep my peace i clutch my fleece i won't release to phoney grease i listen well i abhor hell i hate hardsell i think life's swell my brain's on hold preserve the mold of maharaji's fold until i'm sold... that it's not cool & i've been a fool break out of school fresh new gene pool something sticks my heart it kicks that master's 'nicks' mights just be tricks to check my sites to see the lights or if i'm lost in wrongs and rights i don't desire to quench your fire i do admire righteous ire this is how i am right now so take a shot across my bow Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jan 22, 1999 at 21:09:54 (EST)
From: barney Email: None To: Everyone Subject: GMJ back from dead at Sarlo's Message: Sarlo's Guru Rating Service, at my suggestion, has brought Maharaji back from the dead and has rated him as 1/2 Golden Buddha and has some other interesting stuff to say. Also Sarlo has added ex-premie.org as the site for Anti information and www.enjoyinglife.org as the Pro site. Sarlo has lots and lots of Gurus and his comments are quite funny. click here to goto Sarlo's Guru Rating Service Sarlo, if you're reading this, thank you. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jan 22, 1999 at 21:39:31 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: barney Subject: Deserves a link - Brian? Message: Hey Barney, Good one! Now if you can only get the ex-cult archive to upgrade his info. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jan 22, 1999 at 23:37:39 (EST)
From: Sam Email: None To: barney Subject: GMJ back from dead at Sarlo's Message: Thanks for the info, it's a great site. I like the way he says it seems like EV and M are 'running on fumes'. I agree. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Jan 24, 1999 at 09:34:06 (EST)
From: Helen Email: None To: Sam Subject: GMJ back from dead at Sarlo's Message: I agree. That 'running on fumes' line is so true Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Jan 24, 1999 at 23:39:02 (EST)
From: chr Email: None To: Helen Subject: GMJ back from dead at Sarlo's Message: So is the description of the ELK site as vacuous-actually vacuous is a fairly apt description of M's whole trip. The rating of Rajneesh seems a bit strange. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Jan 25, 1999 at 04:42:15 (EST)
From: Helen Email: None To: chr Subject: Are all Gurus bad? Message: I didn't read all the ratings--the premise that some gurus are better than others kind of turned me off as I think they're all bad (having had two). I did read what he said about Jesus, though--thought that was pretty good. What do you think--are all gurus bad? The whole Guru idea seems a little crazy--I mean ya gotta question the motives of someone who becomes a Guru By the way, what did he say about Rajneesh? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Jan 25, 1999 at 11:04:34 (EST)
From: Katie Email: None To: Helen Subject: Are all Gurus bad? Message: He gave Rajneesh (now known as Osho) 5 golden Buddhas (top rating). I guess he's a follower? He does say that the site is very opinionated, and I suppose that's why. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Jan 25, 1999 at 14:52:40 (EST)
From: Runamok Email: None To: Katie Subject: Are all Gurus bad? Message: Lucky it wasn't a guru-restaurant rating. I doubt even a follower could rate all that food poisoning very highly. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Jan 25, 1999 at 15:19:54 (EST)
From: Roger Drek Email: None To: Katie Subject: Are all Gurus bad? Message: Sarlo did indicate to me that he does follow one of the Guru's on his site. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Jan 25, 1999 at 14:54:10 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: Helen Subject: Yes Helen, all Gurus are bad Message: Helen: I think a new twist to that site would be to rate the 'worst' gurus. In other words, make a list of gurus and rate their cult-think and attempt to control the individual (e.g. no freedom). I like the idea of a MY-GURU-WAS-MUCH-WORSE-THAN-YOURS type list.... he he he :-) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Jan 25, 1999 at 17:22:46 (EST)
From: Helen Email: None To: Mike/KT/Run/Roger Subject: Guru oneupmanship Message: Man, my guru made me walk through the desert with no water and snake bites on my arms, man. My freak out was much worse than yours,man. I was in a Thailand prison, man, blah blah blah Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Jan 25, 1999 at 18:01:37 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: Helen Subject: On a scale of one to ten.... Message: Helen: Big, bad, tantric-buddhas, how would you score your guru? Seriously, this could be fun if we were even slightly objective. For example: comparing M against Moon, who would actually fare worse? :-) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Jan 25, 1999 at 18:07:32 (EST)
From: Reverend Moon Email: None To: Mike Subject: On a scale of one to ten.... Message: Now now Mike, I am the Father of us all incarnate. Sell these flowers for me and embrace my idealogy and marry this woman. Okay, so you're already married, marry her anyway. It'll be a small ceremony just a couple hundred other couples that I've selected for one another...I say let's not compare Gurus, let's compare their DEVOTEES--who's more coo-coo, premies or moonies? After all the Bible says 'By thy fruits ye shall know Him' Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Jan 25, 1999 at 18:12:54 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: Reverend Moon Subject: ah HA....gotcha Message: Helen: 'coo-coo' gave you away!!!! Oh, how perceptive of me.... he he he :-) BTW, good point.... On a scale of one to ten, how brainwashed are they? hmmmmm. I like it! We could use Gail's 'brainwashing' list as the criterion. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jan 22, 1999 at 14:34:29 (EST)
From: Jerry Email: None To: Everyone Subject: The leg of service Message: I copied this from a post by JW that's about to go into the inactive threads: What about service ham? I understood that Guru Maharaj Ji said it was an integral part of knowledge that that in fact you couldn't really have the experience of knowledge unless you had all three legs of the stool. For me, personally, I was able to get around this because I remember distinctly being told that meditation was the first service. I justified not doing further service because meditation wasn't all it was cranked up to be. I figured, surely, Maharaji, as just as he must be, wouldn't expect my undying devotion in service if I'm not having the promised experience in meditation. Also, doing service meant that you were playing the game in front of others that, yeah, this Knowledge is great and aren't we so fortunate to have such a wonderful Lord. I didn't feel that way and it was painful acting as if I was. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jan 22, 1999 at 15:11:12 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: Jerry Subject: The leg of service Message: I guess this might be a question of what comes first, the chicken or the egg. According to Maharaji, knowledge was the experience you got when you did satsang, service and meditation. At least that was the line we were sold. I never considered what Maharaji was offering was a meditation. It was a whole package, that really took over your whole life if you really made effort to practice it. This was part of the whole lie Maharajij presented. He said it was just an experience, but in order to get the experience you had to devote your whole life to it. So, I was in this bind. If I didn't do all three legs of the stool, I wasn't really having the experience of knowledge, although I might have the experience of just meditation, or just satsang, or just service. But this got all complicated in 1977, when Maharaji was basically saying to forget knowledge and to be on the path of DEVOTION and SURRENDER. THAT was the real prize, according to what he said repeatedly in his satsangs. That's what makes his current trip so infuriating. He acts like all you have to do NOW, as opposed to THEN, was to do meditation an hour or so a day, and feel some gratitude. Everything else, supposedly is optional. Why the big change, and what does that say about what he was preaching in the late 70s? How could the divine knowledge, the one true experience change so drastically? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jan 22, 1999 at 17:23:10 (EST)
From: Jerry Email: None To: JW Subject: The leg of service Message: Interesting. I always felt that the whole kit and kiboodle was the meditation. I heard Maharaji speak about the three legs of the stool, satsang, service, and meditation, but somehow I was able to brush that off. The only thing I was interested in was being enlightened by the meditation. I didn't feel that service, or even satsang, was a critical aspect of becoming enlightened, even though I heard Maharaji say they were. The only thing I thought was important, outside of meditation, was satsang given by Maharaji. Even then, if he wasn't coming to my neck of the woods, I didn't think it was important to travel to his. Too expensive. I wasn't a hardcore premie. I was out on the fringe playing by my own rules determined to make things work my way. For 18 years, I leaned heavily on the belief that, one day, there would be a breakthrough with the meditation (although I practiced it infrequently) and I would become enlightened. On that day, I would thank Maharaji. That never happenned and I've stopped believing it ever will. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jan 22, 1999 at 17:53:28 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: Jerry Subject: The leg of service Message: Jerry, Sounds to me like you were comparatively lucky. You went your own way and didn't dive in head first like a lot of the rest of us did and therefore it likely didn't cost you as much. I guess I was a pretty hardcore premie. Plus, I tended to take what Maharaji said literally (big mistake) and felt it was very important to ignore my own spiritual concepts in favor of taking direction from the Perfect Master. It sounds nuts now, but that was really the cult(ure) I was living in at the time. It's very hard to explain it to anyone who didn't go through it, and people who know me now can't believe I ever fell for anything like that. But I sure did. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jan 22, 1999 at 19:11:10 (EST)
From: Jerry Email: None To: JW Subject: The leg of service Message: Yes, JW, I did have it comparatively easy. I merely used Maharaji as a crutch as far as it suited me. But I would say all premies did that. People who went the full distance with their devotions must have felt an imperative to do that. When we look back on it, didn't we all play the way we felt we had to to get out of Knowledge what we were looking for? I'm not trying to let Maharaji off the hook by saying this. He's a capitalist who profits off of people's weakness' and aspirations. What I'm saying is that the drive to serve or not to serve came from us. Some felt they had to give everything and some of us didn't. But I do agree with you. Comparatively speaking, I got off easy. I wouldn't even say I was actually 'in' the cult. I was, as they say, on the 'fringe' of it. Still, the programming was in place. It had sunk it's roots during the aspirant process. Then, even though I was able to remove myself to the fringe, it still only took a relatively small amount of upkeep to keep it in place. If it wasn't for this website and forum I have little doubt that it would still be firmly entrenched. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jan 22, 1999 at 19:22:34 (EST)
From: Jerry Email: None To: Jerry Subject: In fact.... Message: Even if that programming isn't actively maintained, I believe that unless it is actively removed, it'll just stay there, festering, indefinitely. There's probably people wandering around who have been through the aspirant process, years ago, but never received Knowledge, but are still wondering if maybe they shouldn't go back and finish what they started. I wouldn't be surprised at all, that's how powerful I believe the brainwashing is that takes place during the aspirant process. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jan 22, 1999 at 19:26:11 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Jerry Subject: The leg of service Message: What I'm saying is that the drive to serve or not to serve came from us. Some felt they had to give everything and some of us didn't. No, Jerry, I can't agree. HE described the game. HE pointed out the supposed goal lines and HE explained the rules. Some of us, unfortunately, bought all this without reservation. Mind you, even that was at his urging. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jan 22, 1999 at 20:19:35 (EST)
From: Sir David Email: None To: Jim Subject: OK OK OK I surrender Message: Right, that's it. I'm gonna become a premie again. Yes, satsang service and meditation WAS the three legged stool with which to live by and I was doing it through the seventies up until 1983ish. I must have spaced out somewhere. OK I'm ready. Now let me see now. I must not now constantly meditate and remember the word but I must remember at all times (exept for 15 minutes) to remember to not remember the word 23 hours and 45 minutes of the day. Good! That's got me started now. Right now, where's the next Maharaji event. I can't wait to get there now I'm a practising premie again. Ah wait a minute though. The door is always open but Gail got refused entry when she went to a program which Elan Vital invited her to. So the door wasn't open to her. Erm, I wonder if they'll let me in? Wait a minute. Bruce says it's all about love. Hang on; that must mean Maharaji loves the premies but not his enemies. Mmmm but I thought I was a premie now because I'm remembering to forget the word 23 hours and 45 minutes each day. Perhaps there's something else I should do. Yes! I've got it. I'll buy some videos of Maharaji and watch them. But hang on. I can watch a video in my house but I cannot go to a program cause they won't let me in. Now wait a minute, it's coming. I have to feel GRATITUDE to the master for something. Err what? Actually I can't stand him and can't bear to listen to his words. Perhaps that's just my mind. Does that mean that those guys like Bruce and PT have no mind. Hey, have they conquered mount Everest and bravely reached the summit? Wow! Even after eleven years of practising knowledge I still didn't get off on listening to Maharaji speak. God, I must be so confused. Now let's see. I've got a lot on my plate at the moment with either moving or staying put and getting a mortgage and there's a lot to do there with the children too but perhaps that's all an illusion. Got it! I'll meditate for an hour a day and then forget about all the other stuff and just watch Maharaji videos. Perhaps that's how you do it. Erm and then I'll do some service... or is it participation now. Well I'll send Maharaji some money. That should give me a good experience from meditation but I'll have to rush because I'll only have an hour each day to get it. ANd the rest of the time I'll be remembering to not remember the word so I'll be in my mind?? Err, no that can't be right, can it. WARNING: DO NOT FOLLOW MAHARAJI'S LITTLE MIND TRIP - IT CAN DRIVE YOU INSANE AND THAT IS NOT A JOKE Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Jan 23, 1999 at 10:07:26 (EST)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Sir David Subject: OK OK OK I surrender Message: Dear David, I just love you! Remembering not to remember! I hope you have those teeth in so you can sink into all that you've got on your plate. :) Love, Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Jan 25, 1999 at 16:29:24 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: Sir David Subject: DAVE: Now you got it!!!!! Message: Sir: Don't you see?????? Our lard and scheister is changing the playing field every couple of years to throw a wrench into your mind. That way your mind shuts-down, just like a nookeyer reactor (it takes months, you know) and you get to experience 'that place, that warmth, that love, that peace, that joy, that special place inside, that THAT (whatever it is).' So what do you do next? Just this: Forget to remember and remember to forget... that ought to just about do it! Don't forget to remember to forget holy name, though! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jan 22, 1999 at 20:26:23 (EST)
From: Katie Email: None To: Jerry Subject: The leg of service Message: Hi Jerry - I think some of these views about the 'leg of service' can be attributed to the years in which we got K (didn't you get K in the late seventies?) Maybe I'm wrong. I got K in the early seventies and really felt that I HAD to do service directly to M in some way. I know that's why some of my friends went to work on the DECA project - it was really hard to feel like you were doing as much service as was necessary unless you lived in the ashram and had completely devoted themselves. This was an agonizing problem for certain people I knew - they were married with small children, so couldn't move into the ashram, so they didn't feel like real devotees. DECA and so forth provided an opportunity for people with families to feel like they were devoting themselves. You also mentioned the aspirant process - when I got K (in 1972) the aspirant process was really short (a month or two) and a lot of people just got knowledge, maybe practiced, maybe didn't, and left. At that time, most of the indoctrination took place AFTER you received K - maybe that's why satsang was so important then. I do remember feeling like I should go to satsang every night of the week ('never delay in attending satsang'). You wrote: Even if that programming isn't actively maintained, I believe that unless it is actively removed, it'll just stay there, festering, indefinitely. There's probably people wandering around who have been through the aspirant process, years ago, but never received Knowledge, but are still wondering if maybe they shouldn't go back and finish what they started. I wouldn't be surprised at all, that's how powerful I believe the brainwashing is that takes place during the aspirant process. I think this is true, and I'm glad you said it. I also think there's a lot of people who actually received Knowledge and maybe practiced it for a while, but then quit actively practicing, who never thought out the whole deprogramming process. M stays in the back of their mind as something they can come back to (and some of them do come back - some of them find this site instead.) I was never able to tolerate that level of ambiguity, and had to have immediate resolution. (This is a personality trait of mine - in this particular situation it was helpful - although sometimes it is not!) Once I was finished with M, I was finished. But I have since met several non-practicing premies who kept M and K open as a possible future option for many years - I'm talking 10 or 20 years in some cases. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jan 22, 1999 at 21:50:07 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Katie Subject: Every act, every everything Message: I recall believing that a properly 'balanced' life was one without any 'space-outs'. That meant that every single moment doing either satsang, service or meditation. Anything else was retrograde. Even that little ice cream cone after satsang. Easy enough for the master who, after all, was floating like a lotus flower above our scummy world, but hazardous for any one of us serious about walking the razor's edge of devotion and surrender. Now though I say 'I recall believing' I also recall that we ALL believed this. This was the program and it was, if nothing else, a comprehensive one, morning to night. Just look at the ashram schedule if you have any doubt about Maharaji trying to help us avoid our 'egos' every single waking moment. Read his old satsang. That WAS the program. There can be absolutely no doubt about this. There's no argument. This is simply the way it was. There was no 'down time', no 'intermission' during which it was okay to go home, visit your old friends, have a drink or whatever. None of that. Those options were about as viable, in our minds, as stepping out of a 747 in mid flight for a smoke. In fact, as Maharaji often put it, we WERE like in a supersonic jet approaching the sound barrier. The more we shook, the more we should believe that we were really getting somewhere. Isn't that how you remembered it, Dave Wiener? Dave? Where are you, Dave? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jan 22, 1999 at 22:39:40 (EST)
From: Jerry Email: None To: Katie Subject: The leg of service Message: Katie, I received Knowledge in 1980. Arti was still being sung. Satsang, service and meditation were still the rules, and the five commandments were still being handed out after Knowledge sessions. Like always, the trip just got heavier and heavier the further you got into it. I think it's still pretty heavy today. Aspirants are travelling all over the world just to be chosen for a Knowledge session, or refused. I have a friend who went through the aspirant process in the early 90s. It really turned him inside out all the travelling that was expected of him before receiving Knowledge. He would get notices in the mail informing him that Maharaji would be in California (my friend lived in New York) and maybe, just maybe, there will be a Knowledge session. It pissed him off to no end. In my gut I agreed with him, but I would encourage him to go... 'Well, Steve, if this is what you really want, you'll go'... Finally he let go of it and got into Religious Science. That didn't work for him, either. It just got more expensive the further he got into it. Ain't that a surprise. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Jan 23, 1999 at 10:13:06 (EST)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Katie Subject: The leg of service Message: Dear Katie, Hi sweetie! :) I was so lucky to live in a premie house where service met going to VA hospitals and old folks homes and spreading caring, no satsang. I don't know why they had the 'wrong' idea as far as M's desires for service TO HIM but I thank god for it. I also, was an aspirant for such a short time a month or less. Ah, the good ol' days. :) Love, Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Jan 23, 1999 at 16:52:19 (EST)
From: Katie Email: None To: Robyn Subject: The leg of service Message: Hi Robyn, honey - In my community, we used to go to old folks homes and to St. Elizabeths (big mental hospital in DC) as 'service', too. I thought this was a really worthwhile thing to do. We didn't give satsang as a part of this - just said we were from Divine Light Mission. But then the word came down from M (don't remember when this was) that this wasn't really service, because it wasn't done directly to him. That made doing service a lot more difficult - either you worked directly for M, or did some kind of propagation, or gave money: for example -the Active Membership program, which meant giving 10% of income, with coupon books to send in with each donation and everything. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Jan 23, 1999 at 22:16:56 (EST)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Katie Subject: The leg of service Message: Dear Katie, I remember Jessica's dad insisting on giving 10% to DLM but I don't think there were coupon books. That was in 1976, the year Jess was born. I bet it was before the big push for that. I was out or out of the loop, living up here on that farm by the time you weren't supposed to do good works as service. I really wonder and would like to think I wouldn't have fallen for that. Love, Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Jan 24, 1999 at 21:07:38 (EST)
From: dv Email: None To: Katie Subject: The leg of service Message: I went to St. E's a couple of times and gave Alexander messages at a halfway house there. The folks there got very mellowed out, but after a couple visits, we were told not to go back, as the inmates got so mellowed out for a couple days, then they crashed too hard and shutdowns were imposed. I remember the first time we drove on to the compound we were lost, so we drove up to a group of people standing on a corner acting very 'weird', singing, talking, making faces, but generally rather festive, and asked for help. They all stopped, became very sober looking, walked over to us, and gave very concise and polite directions to the building we were looking for. We thanked them, they went back to their corner and took up where they left off. I thought it was hilarious. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Jan 23, 1999 at 09:59:52 (EST)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: JW Subject: The leg of service Message: Dear Joe, I had a similar experience to Jerry's and maybe because I am female and so couldn't make a 3 legged stool, :), I never had the chance to be a true devotee!!! :) Just another reason to love being a woman. Seriously though I heard about the meditation only when I first heard about the guru and from a very good look man, it is no wonder I got into the trip. Although I went through a lot of the motions I never totally gave my heart to it. Love, Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jan 22, 1999 at 19:22:51 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Jerry Subject: The leg of service Message: Jerry, I'm completely with Joe on this one. We were absolutely discouraged from placing meditation above either satsang or service. Mind you, Maharaji, on any given day, might have said something contradicting this. It WAS his cult after all, wasn't it? But his overall regular prescription was S,S & M, the three-legged stool, blah, blah, blah. I, too, would LOVE to ask him how a path that once required moment-to-moment dedication, manifested through selfless action as authorized by hia agya, uncompromised satsang that left no room for chitchat about anything else (like that example I gave a while ago where Maharaji blasted the premies for asking each other at a program if so-and-so was there) and 100 percent concentration on the Word at all times has dwindled to the current nothingness he's peddling. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jan 22, 1999 at 22:17:13 (EST)
From: Jerry Email: None To: Jim Subject: The leg of service Message: We were absolutely discouraged from placing meditation above either satsang or service. Jim, this was true for people who were completely dedicated, ie. the ashram premie, but for the unsuspecting aspirant, the bait was always the meditation. It wasn't until the hook was set, did you learn about the three legged stool. I don't remember if it was Maharaji who I heard say meditation was the first service. It might have been an initiator or a premie. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Jan 23, 1999 at 00:25:22 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: Jerry Subject: The leg of service Message: Jerry, I was very involved in the whole aspirant process in 1980, and I know if you were an aspirant at that time, you got a VERY heavy dose of programming before you received knowledge. It was a pretty intense process. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Jan 23, 1999 at 02:05:54 (EST)
From: Jerry Email: None To: JW Subject: The leg of service Message: Jerry, I was very involved in the whole aspirant process in 1980, and I know if you were an aspirant at that time, you got a VERY heavy dose of programming before you received knowledge. It was a pretty intense process. I'm not saying it wasn't, JW. But the bait was always the meditation. You didn't have to go through a secret dedication ceremony to go to satsang or do service. That was available to anybody, premie and aspirant alike. But only the chosen received Knowledge. Remember? How you used to think that people who had Knowledge for 2 or 3 years must be really enlightened because they had Knowledge for so long? It wasn't because they were going to satsang or doing service that we, or at least I, thought they were so enlightened. It was because they had been practicing the mysterious meditation techniques. That's what I wanted. I wanted to be filled in on the mystery. I already knew what satsang and service was. I'd heard satsang and I'd even done some service. Big deal. Totally unimpressed. But, I figured, when I'm revealed the meditation techniques, then I'll know. I'll see that light brighter than 10 million suns and I'll become one of the enlightened ones, too. This is why I was an aspirant and put up with all the bullshit I had to, because I wanted the meditation. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Jan 23, 1999 at 11:59:28 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: Jerry Subject: The leg of service Message: Jerry, I was agreeing with you that if you were an aspirant in 1980, that you were already pretty programmed prior to receiving knowledge, and that even if you were on the fringe after that, that programming was probably still pretty deep. So, did you ever see the 10,000 suns? Was it worth it? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Jan 23, 1999 at 16:55:52 (EST)
From: Jerry Email: None To: JW Subject: 10,000 suns Message: So, did you ever see the 10,000 suns? Was it worth it? Ten thousand? I thought it was supposed to be ten million. Anyway, no. Once when I wasn't meditating, out of the blue, I saw a brief flash of a brilliant light that stood my hair on end. Outside of that, I never saw anything that wasn't there already before I received K. I even asked my initiator right at the Knowledge session, 'Were's the light brighter than ten million suns'? He told me to give it a week or two. I kid you not. Funny guy. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Jan 23, 1999 at 15:04:14 (EST)
From: Katie Email: None To: Jerry Subject: The leg of service Message: Hi Jerry - You wrote: I already knew what satsang and service was. I'd heard satsang and I'd even done some service. Big deal. Totally unimpressed. But, I figured, when I'm revealed the meditation techniques, then I'll know. I'll see that light brighter than 10 million suns and I'll become one of the enlightened ones, too. This is why I was an aspirant and put up with all the bullshit I had to, because I wanted the meditation. You sound like you were a lot more discriminating than I was (and than a lot of other people were). I swallowed the 'meditation, satsang, and service' trinity hook, line and sinker. I had the idea that if you didn't do satsang and service, then the meditation wouldn't work. I didn't make this up - it was actively promoted by both M and the premies. You probably experienced this also. It's interesting to me that you didn't get hooked into the satsang and service part of it. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Jan 23, 1999 at 17:15:21 (EST)
From: Jerry Email: None To: Katie Subject: The leg of service Message: I swallowed the 'meditation, satsang, and service' trinity hook, line and sinker. I had the idea that if you didn't do satsang and service, then the meditation wouldn't work. I didn't make this up - it was actively promoted by both M and the premies. You probably experienced this also. It's interesting to me that you didn't get hooked into the satsang and service part of it. I felt satsang was important because of M's commandment, 'never delay in attending satsang', but service was a gray area. When I asked for service, I was given what I considered silly little things to do, keeping people's shoes out of the doorway so nobody would stumble on them, cleaning a bathtroom that had already been scrubbed 10 times that day... I couldn't see how 'service' was going to help enlighten me. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Jan 23, 1999 at 17:35:56 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Jerry Subject: My take on how it worked Message: I couldn't see how 'service' was going to help enlighten me. Here's the trip, Jer: 1) You are not your body, you are not your mind. You are really something lying far behind. 2) You think that you're the actor doing whatever but really, you're not. That's all an illusion or something. Something like that. 3) If you're doing things for yourself (I mean your FALSE self, your ego, your 'Jerryness') your ego will always think it's the agent doing the action. If, however, you do 'service' -- authorized, selfless action under the master's agya -- you aren't doing it for yourself, you're doing it for the infinite lord, m. Your ego's not benefitting (not if you're REALLY doing service, and not just going through the motions) and you have a chance to experience the power of m's grace moving through you. 4) The only way that can happen is if you're meditating, i.e. being 'on the word', while you're doing the service. That's the only way you're really doing service anyway. 5) A day spent doing selfless action was a day spent acquiring no new karma. Indeed, it was a day spent burning off old karma. This karma stuff wasn't talked about much but m dropped a few hints about it here and there. 6) It didn't matter what service you did. It could have been sucking m's dick if you're his wife or mistress or cleaning a bathroom for the tenth time that day. The point was to have to 'experience' of service and that, I understood, lay in the sense of disassociation one could experience listneing to your breath like Darth Vadar for a a few hours. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Jan 23, 1999 at 18:23:27 (EST)
From: Jerry Email: None To: Jim Subject: My take on how it worked Message: Thanks, Jim. I give you 5 holy auras at Sarlo's Guru Rating System. I obviously was too much in my mind to comprehend what was going on in those days. I'd go back and do it right this time, but it seems that M's changed the rules. No more satsang, service and meditation. Oh well, I guess I'm stuck with my mind. I'll live, I suppose. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Jan 24, 1999 at 18:14:05 (EST)
From: Diz Email: None To: Jim, Jerry Subject: My take on how it worked Message: Wow, Jim, you sure were one enlightened guy! I'm glad I wasn't a struggling premie in your ashram, I would have felt very inferior! I think I saw it as a kind of circular thing. This was how it was meant to be, in my understanding: you experienced K, then you did service because the experience invoked gratitude and/or the desire to take the light to other people. And by doing service then your desire to experience K increased. I think this last part of the loop worked, anyhow, and maybe the first part too. I remember M describing service as something like 'a little lock that locks you' while you were moving through the cosmic atmosphere (of mind? karma?) at supersonic speeds. That made sense to me. I did find 'doing' grounding, and I sure needed grounding, as I had a great tendency during those early days of premie involvement (actually, maybe it was the whole way through - all 20+ years!), to have large emotional fluctuations. Certainly putting every spare moment into service was a great way to put MJ's world right at the centre of one's life. I think that's one of the things that got to me in the end: I didn't have any time or energy for anything but the bare necessities of living outside of s, s and m. I got asked to do lots of service, the whole way through my premie career (until near the end, where I was becoming suss, due to asking questions). I thought it was grace to be asked. I had a lot of trouble saying no, though I learned to do so for survival. There's no doubt I had some psychological stuff mixed in here, about only being valued if I was achieving - well, it may well have come from my family of origin and society, but it was certainly re-inforced in the premie communities in which I lived, where 'real' premies did a lot of service. Out of gratitude, you understand, not from all those human motivations such as need for acceptance, community, friends, useful work. I had enough awareness to see that I had those 'wrong' motivations mixed in with my gratitude - and felt suitably guilty. Not only wasn't there time, but after 15 or so years, I was starting to wonder what kinds of things I (that's in caps) would like to do, if I had a choice! In fact, having done what other people thought I should do as service for so many years, I was beginning to wonder who I was! So many little choices - will I do x (like maybe go to a night class, or even do some mending), or will I do this service that's in front of me? And of course, as a premie I knew the answer - do the service, go to the satsang, save up for the next event. Priorities - you had to have the right priorities. When did the second and third priorities - my personal preferences, the kids, the housework even - ever get a look-in? I snuck them in. It was always a rush. I felt rushed, un-peaceful. But how could that be? I should be grateful for all the opportunities MJ was offering me! I was practicing K, experiencing the ultimate peace! So glad to be free in 1999. You know, I don't have the ups and downs much any more. I'm on a pretty even keel. I LOVE having control of what I do, I LOVE having a bit more time in my life. Even though I still get busy. As those to whom I owe e-mails know. Love, Diz. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Jan 24, 1999 at 21:26:29 (EST)
From: dv Email: None To: Diz Subject: Lovely post, Diz. Message: Reading your post reminded me of the years and years and years I put in doing service: Sitting under an airplane wing for 12 hours a day 7 days a week for months, etc., etc. A large leap potential ex-premies will have to take may be to accept the fact that all that effort was pure bullshit, that they may have possibly severly wasted their lives. About the only good that came out of it for me was the vegetarian diet, except for the hypoglycemic phase, and the lack of drugs and alcohol! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Jan 25, 1999 at 06:54:54 (EST)
From: Diz Email: None To: dv Subject: Not a complete loss Message: Dear dv Thanks for your kind response. I hope I didn't bring back too many freaky memories. Personally I don't feel too burdened with a sense that it was all a waste of time. Not sure why. Maybe because I was still 'in the world' to some extent, with work and family at least. But also, I know I did what I did sincerely: the motivations which brought me to MJ - both the 'sanctioned' ones such as wanting to experience something peaceful and deep, and the more human ones like wanting a tribe and something of value to do in life - were okay. In fact, much the same motivations are what's carried me past MJ now. Probably I'll look back on this phase of my life, if I should live long so long, and think the way I see things was pretty wacky in some ways. So it goes. I'm always learning. And will probably always be pretty dumb. That's being a human bean for ya. Take care, dv. Diz Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Jan 25, 1999 at 17:36:43 (EST)
From: Helen Email: None To: Diz Subject: Not a complete loss Message: I think it is great that you can put it all into perspective and just keep on going..after all you've got a lot of livin' to do yet Love Helen Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Jan 25, 1999 at 04:58:11 (EST)
From: Helen Email: None To: Diz Subject: My take on how it worked Message: Diz, It's so true that this supposedly peaceful path is full of anxiety (unless you're dedicating yourself 100%) What a bind--but come to think of it the people supposedly dedicating themselves 100% don't look too happy either... But oftentimes people in convents, monasteries aren't happy all the time either--sacrificing themselves to the Lord . I really think that there was a great deal of dishonesty about what was required to be a premie --at the beginning everyone just tells you how wonderful and blissful it is--noone tells you that you will be expected to give up all semblance of a normal life. Although that 'all or nothing' stance seems to have changed, not out of compassion for the followers but so that M's message can be more marketable today Don't worry about emails for now, if you don't have time--I'm glad you are building a good life & doing those things you've wanted to do. have fun Peace, Helen Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Jan 25, 1999 at 06:43:47 (EST)
From: Diz Email: None To: Helen Subject: My take on how it worked Message: Ta Helen I do have good intentions re e-mail. for what that's worth... Love, Diz Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Jan 25, 1999 at 11:24:47 (EST)
From: Katie Email: None To: Diz Subject: Hi Diz Message: Hi Diz - I'm glad to see you here again - your thoughtful posts out posts are always appreciated. (Plus I owe YOU an e-mail, for what it's worth.) Love, Katie Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jan 21, 1999 at 22:38:53 (EST)
From: reditor Email: None To: chr Subject: question about plane - chr? Message: we need to know who M let travel with him in plane with on trips - why was Lena on the commercial flight to India? any information would be appreciated... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jan 22, 1999 at 11:17:21 (EST)
From: chr Email: None To: reditor Subject: question about plane - chr? Message: There was a bit of poetic licence in the story of the 707.It was basically an excuse to tell the amusing story of the drug incident and the customs guys with the gold toilet.As far as I know M didnt use any females for airport security.It also would have been highly unlikely that Lena would have even set foot in the plane, let alone been locked in and left frolicking on M's waterbed. Having said that,Lena was on a commercial flight because the plane security were to meet the plane at each airport and then stay there and watch over it,day and night.Apart from security being pretty low on the divine hierarchical rungs of those around M,the airport security (at least in some countries) were supposed to be a legitimate security firm hired by M. They were supposedly not his followers. Some of the premies involved were from the individual countries concerned,whilst there were also some who followed the plane to its various destinations-I allowed Lena to be one of these.This was the case especially in Asia and parts of the Pacific.Later because this arrangement didnt work-the airport officials saw through it-M did take a couple of premies with him who remained on board the plane as security while it was at the airport.The only people who accompanied M,at least for the couple of years he used the 707,were his family,personal security,valet,assistant for the children and a hostess.This varied from time to time and sometimes jobs were combined but basically a minimum of personal travelled on the plane.The pilot of the 707 was an elderly retired pilot. He was a very nice guy. Dont know what he thought of M and the whole trip,except that he was a christian. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Jan 24, 1999 at 02:57:17 (EST)
From: dv Email: None To: reditor Subject: question about plane - chr? Message: That elderly retired pilot may have been Mark Clark's father, who moved from Shreveport LA to work on the plane. Anyone heard of him or Mark? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jan 21, 1999 at 21:49:07 (EST)
From: chr Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Shri Maharaj ji Message: Have recently been talking to some old friends who are devotees of Charan Singh of the Radha Saomi group.Their take on Shri M is similar to what has been written here and elsewhere. They say he was a householder who had no authority whatsoever to give K.Apparantly he wanted to make it available more easily outside the ashram system.When he left none of the existing devotees went with him as they all knew he wasnt the one chosen by their master to continue.This seemed to be backed up inadvertently by M when he gave that satsang about Shri Ms first devotee-some shoemaker who he initiated in the back of a cart after threatening to kick him beyond the 3 worlds. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jan 21, 1999 at 23:39:55 (EST)
From: bill Email: None To: chr Subject: Shri Maharaj ji Message: I reviewed the story in an old and it is divine and although I wrote here the same version you gave, turns out that he was with someone from an upper caste and he went to a lowest caste cobbler and was unhappy with the work and told the guy that 'I should kick you past the three worlds' Upon leaving the shop the other upper caste guy said either 'what are you talking about' or 'how would you do that' OR the way and it is divine put it, 'can you kick someone past the three worlds?' And lying rawat said yes and shoed (showed) him techniques. He was fond of threatening and for that matter kicking people. He managed to do it occasionally till the end. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jan 22, 1999 at 06:56:08 (EST)
From: Sam Email: None To: bill Subject: Shri Maharaj ji Message: It's a good point that you raise about Shri Maharaji. I heard Prim Rawat in the 1970's speak of how his dad used to beat devotees with a stick, of course he said the devotees were blissed out at the beatings. But even more interesting is the prospect that dear old dad was not a master, just a con artist like his son... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jan 22, 1999 at 07:18:03 (EST)
From: Sam Email: None To: chr Subject: Shri Maharaj ji Message: I find this whole thing about perfect masters rather amusing. To me, at best it seems to be a cultural dynamic from India. Jesus never called himself a perfect master nor did budda for that matter. It will be interesting to see how long Prim Rawat can keep up the PM facade, and I most likely won't be around to see it, but it'll be interesting to see who gets the next node to do the PM thing. The way it looks now it most likely will be his daughter, keeping it in the family, another facade. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jan 22, 1999 at 08:09:58 (EST)
From: bill Email: None To: Sam Subject: Shri Maharaj ji Message: That is the idea that is popular because Hansi is putting himself out of the running by (my guess) being angry at dear old dad for the way he treats Marolyn and the way he has blasted premies when amar was around and the way he wouldn't let the kids see mom when she was in the hospital with the anyurism and other constricting tyrannical behaviours he witnessed for a lifetime. But I cant see rawat letting a woman be lord when he himself has such distain for women. I am sending Jim a tape of when M talked about woman pilots and how he said (among other things) hmmm, i want to quote exactly so this will have to wait. Amar is the one he has in mind. He said so when amar was born. He showed amars feet to the instructors and said 'you can tell the perfect master by his feet.' Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jan 22, 1999 at 12:35:26 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: bill Subject: By the feet? Message: bill: I guess I'm out of the running.... my feet are too long and too thin. What, are amar's feet short, pudgy and well-rounded (read that: overfed), like dad? ;-) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jan 22, 1999 at 19:10:19 (EST)
From: bill Email: None To: Mike Subject: By the feet? Message: Amar was all of a few weeks old when his feet got the divine analysis. As for his worship's feet, you will have to wait onthe furthur episodes of Phaffendorf Estates or red nighty for that. What do you do on a friday night Mighty Mike? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Jan 25, 1999 at 10:15:03 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: bill Subject: Friday nites (ot) Message: bill: I lead a pretty 'normal' life, most of the time; family man, you know! If we are going hiking on Saturday, we usually get ready on friday and leave early on saturday morning. That's what we did this friday. Went to a place called fossil springs; a lovely hike and a beautiful place to spend an afternoon. We spent the night and left on sunday. It was just perfect. The weather was VERY cooperative! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Jan 23, 1999 at 21:22:18 (EST)
From: y? Email: None To: bill Subject: Shri Maharaj ji Message: So Bill, How did you get privy to such inside information? Were you one of the inner circle? If so I'd love to hear some more highlights from your association with the Holy family. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Jan 23, 1999 at 21:29:50 (EST)
From: b! Email: None To: y? Subject: Shri Maharaj ji Message: Nope, but I was all around during that era and had my sources for a while after that. I'll try to get to everything in the phaffendorf estates and nighty saga. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jan 21, 1999 at 21:20:14 (EST)
From: barney Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Gerard Ashworth? Zine Comics Message: Anybody know Gerard Ashworth? I picked something up on him and have something linked to him over at the House of Drek. I suspect that he might be an EX and he has done a few comics or zines and one is published in Modern Murder and a story called Weird Stress Kittens in Platnium Grit. I'd like to talk to him about doing a piece for House of Drek. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |