Ex-Premie.Org

Forum III Archive # 38

From: Feb 12, 1999

To: Feb 21, 1999

Page: 4 Of: 5



Richard -:- Tom's Post...again -:- Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 09:07:01 (EST)
__Katie -:- Tom's Post...again -:- Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 09:50:31 (EST)
____Happy -:- Tom's Post...again -:- Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 11:30:53 (EST)
____Denise -:- Tom's Post...again -:- Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 13:30:58 (EST)
______Happy -:- Tom's Post...again -:- Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 13:49:29 (EST)
______Rick -:- Tom's Post...again -:- Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 14:27:40 (EST)
________gerry -:- Tom's Post...again -:- Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 14:40:34 (EST)
__________Rick -:- Tom's Post...again -:- Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 14:48:52 (EST)
____________gerry -:- Tom's Post...again -:- Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 15:04:32 (EST)
________Denise -:- Your Previous Message, History -:- Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 15:03:38 (EST)
__________Orlando -:- Your Previous Message, History -:- Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 16:16:39 (EST)
____________VP -:- Brian, concerning advertising -:- Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 23:09:38 (EST)
__________Rick -:- Your Previous Message, History -:- Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 16:30:16 (EST)
____________Denise -:- Your Previous Message, History -:- Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 18:16:39 (EST)
______________Rick -:- Your Previous Message, History -:- Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 18:59:21 (EST)
__________Robert -:- Your Previous Message, History -:- Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 16:31:36 (EST)
____________ham -:- Robert & Orlando -:- Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 17:01:55 (EST)
______________Orlando -:- i am not Robert -:- Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 17:10:50 (EST)
________________ham -:- i am not Robert -:- Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 17:32:22 (EST)
__________________Runamok -:- i am not Robert -:- Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 02:23:00 (EST)
____________________ham -:- i am not Robert. I'm not -:- Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 03:36:06 (EST)
______________________Runamok -:- I mean, would I lie? -:- Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 06:52:43 (EST)
________________________ham -:- I mean, would I lie? -:- Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 16:04:29 (EST)
__________________Orlando -:- i am not Robert -:- Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 09:42:21 (EST)
____________Brian -:- Your Previous Message, History -:- Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 17:35:15 (EST)
__________ham -:- Your Previous Message, History -:- Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 16:47:20 (EST)
____________Jean-Michel -:- BS figures & statistics -:- Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 17:22:54 (EST)
______________ham -:- BS figures & Zidane(ot) -:- Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 17:51:32 (EST)
________________Rick -:- BS figures & Zidane(ot) -:- Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 19:36:22 (EST)
__________g's mom -:- For Denise -:- Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 17:03:29 (EST)
____________Helen -:- For Denise/g's mom -:- Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 17:26:53 (EST)
______Helen -:- Tom's Post...again -:- Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 16:43:07 (EST)
________Zac -:- Denise Here are some clue's -:- Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 18:21:24 (EST)
__________Denise -:- Denise Here are some clue's -:- Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 19:47:32 (EST)
____________Zac -:- Back so fast, Okay Clue #1 -:- Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 20:12:52 (EST)
____________Marshall -:- Denise Here are some clue's -:- Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 20:35:51 (EST)
______________gerry -:- why oh why... -:- Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 21:00:15 (EST)
______________Denise -:- Denise Here are some clues -:- Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 21:27:25 (EST)
________________Zac -:- Clueless -:- Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 22:33:16 (EST)
________________Marshall -:- Gerry's right -:- Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 22:58:03 (EST)
____________Tom -:- Talking is Good -:- Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 00:06:48 (EST)
______________Denise -:- Talking is Good -:- Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 10:06:41 (EST)
________________Bobby -:- Talking is Good -:- Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 11:30:50 (EST)
__________________Denise -:- Talking is Good -:- Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 12:04:50 (EST)
______________Katie -:- Talking is Good -:- Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 14:12:59 (EST)
____________Rick -:- Denise Here are some clue's -:- Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 00:21:56 (EST)
______________Happy -:- Trust common sense -:- Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 06:38:34 (EST)
______Katie -:- to Denise from Katie -:- Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 13:37:33 (EST)
________Robert -:- to Denise from Katie -:- Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 04:05:21 (EST)
__________Katie -:- to Robert -:- Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 05:52:21 (EST)

ben there -:- group retaliation -:- Sun, Feb 14, 1999 at 19:08:36 (EST)
__ben there -:- group retaliation -:- Sun, Feb 14, 1999 at 20:15:31 (EST)
____AE -:- group retaliation -:- Sun, Feb 14, 1999 at 21:24:22 (EST)
______dv -:- group retaliation -:- Sun, Feb 14, 1999 at 23:52:05 (EST)
____dv -:- group retaliation -:- Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 00:15:53 (EST)
______cp -:- group retaliation -:- Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 01:30:57 (EST)
________Runamok -:- public relations -:- Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 03:17:47 (EST)
__________cp -:- public relations -:- Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 05:11:59 (EST)
__Helen -:- group retaliation -:- Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 08:39:07 (EST)
____Katie -:- group retaliation -:- Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 09:22:06 (EST)
______Helen -:- group retaliation -:- Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 16:59:34 (EST)
______dv -:- More interesting to us, but -:- Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 20:26:27 (EST)
____Zac -:- group retaliation -:- Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 09:27:26 (EST)
______Rick -:- group retaliation -:- Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 10:48:39 (EST)
______ben there -:- retribution -:- Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 11:15:58 (EST)
________cp -:- weaving with Flynt thread -:- Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 12:43:46 (EST)
__________Zac -:- Hustler -:- Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 13:17:26 (EST)
____________cp -:- What?? -:- Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 16:28:14 (EST)
______________dv -:- Jims on vacation nt -:- Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 20:29:54 (EST)
__________Nephrite Godess of Zargon -:- weaving with Flynt thread -:- Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 15:53:43 (EST)
____________Nephrite Godess of Zargon -:- Phew, that was close! -:- Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 16:49:20 (EST)
______________Zardoz -:- Phew, that was close! -:- Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 17:07:21 (EST)
__Rawat's would be shrink -:- the story I'd want to read -:- Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 14:37:51 (EST)
____Helen -:- the story I'd want to read -:- Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 15:58:45 (EST)
____Nil -:- the story I'd want to read -:- Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 17:41:49 (EST)
______ham -:- the story I'd want to read -:- Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 17:59:15 (EST)
________Nil -:- the story I'd want to read -:- Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 18:54:52 (EST)
__________ham -:- the story I'd want to read -:- Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 19:38:45 (EST)
______Mike -:- the story I'd want to read -:- Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 14:02:47 (EST)
________Nil -:- Both sides -:- Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 21:16:41 (EST)
__________Student -:- Both sides -:- Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 21:56:18 (EST)
____________Nimrod -:- Both sides -:- Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 22:48:56 (EST)
__________Nimrod -:- Both sides -:- Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 22:36:22 (EST)

Helen -:- AE re: your website -:- Sun, Feb 14, 1999 at 10:55:13 (EST)
__AE -:- AE re: your website -:- Sun, Feb 14, 1999 at 13:54:06 (EST)
____JW -:- AE re: your website -:- Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 22:14:02 (EST)
______AE -:- AE re: your website -:- Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 06:52:55 (EST)
________JW -:- AE re: your website -:- Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 10:01:03 (EST)
________JW -:- AE and Brian? -:- Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 13:55:04 (EST)
__________AE -:- AE and Brian? -:- Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 16:01:03 (EST)
__Happy -:- Your website -:- Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 07:49:31 (EST)

premieji -:- www.Maharaji.org now open -:- Sun, Feb 14, 1999 at 07:57:21 (EST)
__haterji -:- www.Maharaji.org now open -:- Sun, Feb 14, 1999 at 10:54:17 (EST)
____Helen -:- www.Maharaji.org now open -:- Sun, Feb 14, 1999 at 10:59:23 (EST)
__Anon -:- www.Maharaji.org now open -:- Sun, Feb 14, 1999 at 11:06:41 (EST)
__Jerry -:- No cut and paste? -:- Sun, Feb 14, 1999 at 11:51:36 (EST)
____JELLY -:- No cut and paste? -:- Sun, Feb 14, 1999 at 14:07:45 (EST)
______Jerry -:- No cut and paste? -:- Sun, Feb 14, 1999 at 16:55:54 (EST)
__Rick -:- www.Maharaji.org now open -:- Sun, Feb 14, 1999 at 12:41:29 (EST)
____ham -:- www.Maharaji.org now open -:- Sun, Feb 14, 1999 at 13:00:30 (EST)
__little Brother -:- www.Maharaji.org now open -:- Sun, Feb 14, 1999 at 13:30:20 (EST)
____gerry the terrible -:- www.Maharaji.org now open -:- Sun, Feb 14, 1999 at 15:06:52 (EST)
____Jean-Michel -:- M's goofy statistics -:- Sun, Feb 14, 1999 at 17:43:30 (EST)
______Jean-Michel -:- I goofed: 50,000 premies -:- Sun, Feb 14, 1999 at 17:53:47 (EST)
________Jethro -:- Jm -it was a dream -:- Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 03:02:54 (EST)
__JELLY -:- www.Maharaji.org now open -:- Sun, Feb 14, 1999 at 13:53:17 (EST)
__rich2 -:- www.Maharaji.org now open -:- Sun, Feb 14, 1999 at 15:27:01 (EST)
__Richard -:- www.Maharaji.org now open -:- Sun, Feb 14, 1999 at 15:30:05 (EST)

larkin -:- Valentine's Day : Scumbag -:- Sat, Feb 13, 1999 at 18:39:11 (EST)
__Helen -:- Valentine's Day : Scumbag -:- Sun, Feb 14, 1999 at 10:29:17 (EST)

Larry Flynt -:- Valentine's Day/Monica's Tale -:- Sat, Feb 13, 1999 at 16:34:09 (EST)
__Anonymous -:- say WHAT???? -:- Sat, Feb 13, 1999 at 17:29:07 (EST)
__dv -:- Valentine's Day/Monica's Tale -:- Sat, Feb 13, 1999 at 18:01:39 (EST)
__chr -:- Valentine's Day/Monica's Tale -:- Sat, Feb 13, 1999 at 18:08:27 (EST)
____JW -:- Valentine's Day/Monica's Tale -:- Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 10:23:51 (EST)
______JW -:- Sorry -:- Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 10:25:50 (EST)
________Happy -:- Most premies don't know -:- Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 11:41:58 (EST)
__________g's mom -:- Nah, I do not think this will -:- Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 12:11:07 (EST)
____________Jean-Michel -:- Nah, I do not think this will -:- Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 12:34:11 (EST)
____________Happy -:- It'll help -:- Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 12:49:04 (EST)
______________Jean-Michel -:- I told you Prempal! -:- Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 17:03:58 (EST)
________________The Ringwraith -:- Go home! -:- Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 18:19:41 (EST)
__________________Jethro -:- Golem not Golum -:- Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 19:28:05 (EST)
__________________JHB -:- Go home! -:- Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 23:56:33 (EST)
________________Gail -:- I told you Prempal! -:- Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 22:22:56 (EST)
______chr -:- Valentine's Day/Monica's Tale -:- Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 06:19:37 (EST)
________Marshall -:- Valentine's Day/Monica's Tale -:- Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 14:01:40 (EST)
__________chr -:- Valentine's Day/Monica's Tale -:- Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 03:52:26 (EST)
__nigel -:- Come back Jim, it's happening! -:- Sat, Feb 13, 1999 at 18:57:28 (EST)
____Gail -:- Who is Larry Flynt? (nt) -:- Sat, Feb 13, 1999 at 20:56:24 (EST)
______Zac -:- Ask him Gail -:- Sat, Feb 13, 1999 at 21:10:02 (EST)
______VP -:- Who is Larry Flynt? (nt) -:- Sat, Feb 13, 1999 at 21:56:56 (EST)
__Zac -:- When will the April Expose -:- Sat, Feb 13, 1999 at 22:10:04 (EST)
____bill -:- Sounds true to me. -:- Sat, Feb 13, 1999 at 22:32:37 (EST)
______bill -:- Sounds true to me. -:- Sat, Feb 13, 1999 at 22:49:27 (EST)
________bill -:- Sounds true to me. -:- Sat, Feb 13, 1999 at 23:03:28 (EST)
__________Runamok -:- Sounds true to Bill -:- Sun, Feb 14, 1999 at 01:47:43 (EST)
__________cp -:- believable- any old posts? -:- Sun, Feb 14, 1999 at 01:53:05 (EST)
____________Katie -:- 2 Monicas -:- Sun, Feb 14, 1999 at 09:06:44 (EST)
________chr -:- Sounds true to me. -:- Sun, Feb 14, 1999 at 02:29:18 (EST)
__________bill -:- Sounds true to me. -:- Sun, Feb 14, 1999 at 11:04:15 (EST)
____________chr -:- Sounds true to me. -:- Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 02:31:16 (EST)
__The Real RT speaks -:- I am not a corroberator! -:- Sun, Feb 14, 1999 at 13:14:06 (EST)
____Katie -:- I am not a corroberator! -:- Sun, Feb 14, 1999 at 16:14:25 (EST)
______Happy -:- April joke? -:- Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 06:05:09 (EST)


Date: Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 09:07:01 (EST)
From: Richard
Email: rich2@globalnet.co.uk
To: Tom
Subject: Tom's Post...again
Message:
I apologise for restarting this thread but I felt that this post, and the reactions to it, get to the heart of the matter regarding what this forum is all about.

Seems to me it's

Look to the future versus We ain't done yet

Tom wants to look to the future because nothing really holds him to the past and he can't see the point. OK. For myself, I still feel the hurt and anger deep down. This is precisely because I believed so much and gave so freely of myself to someone and something which was a fraud. In addition, my life today is still affected, my confidence is still damaged and many of my friends are still being conned.

Add to this the fact that more people are still being drawn into the fraud because they feel the need to give themselves to something or someone. They will potentially be damaged too.

This forum serves many purposes;

a place where people like me can share our feelings and make contact with others in the same boat,

a place of information for those who might be about to make the same mistake,

a place of information for those who, one day, just might put a stop to M's highly undesirable activities,

a warning to would-be spiritual con-artists that not everyone forgets (one of the major get-outs for Maharaji and his like).

So Tom, I'm pleased that you were not too badly damaged by the BM, but many were and many more probably will be, unless someone keeps shouting about it...which is what this site does.

I am very pleased that Brian, Katie, Robyn, Jean-Michel, JW, Jerry, Gerry etc... take the time and trouble and have the sheer stamina to keep this site going. It serves a purpose for me and if I ever can forget all this shit and get on with my future, it will be precisely because this site exists and all these people spoke to each other about their experiences.

If you can't see that then fair enough but please don't lecture.

regards

Richard
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Date: Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 09:50:31 (EST)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Richard
Subject: Tom's Post...again
Message:
Dear Richard,
You wrote:
Seems to me it's
Look to the future versus We ain't done yet
Tom wants to look to the future because nothing really holds him to the past and he can't see the point. OK. For myself, I still feel the hurt and anger deep down. This is precisely because I believed so much and gave so freely of myself to someone and something which was a fraud. In addition, my life today is still affected, my confidence is still damaged and many of my friends are still being conned.


Very well said. I don't mind people like Tom posting that they are 'over' it, and getting on with their lives - it's true for them, and I think they should be able to express it here. What I do mind is when they assume that everyone else on this forum is in the same position as they are, and is choosing to stay stuck in anger towards Maharaji.

I have written a lot of posts about the forum, and rather than write another one, I thought I'd just quote something I wrote to Iron Bear that went inactive (apologies to everyone who already read this):
..the fact is that almost all the people here are trying to get UNSTUCK from the past. You're seeing posts from people in different stages of the process. I don't think people can just 'move on' without going through anger and other so-called negative emotions. I think moving on from anything that hasn't worked out without working through exactly what happened to you results in suppression of emotions, which will come up at a future time. There are a lot of people on here who did 'move on' externally but couldn't, for whatever reason, deal with their experiences with Maharaji for many years. A lot of what you might see as 'stuckness' or 'victim consciousness' is people who are actively expressing, for the first time, their feelings about what happened to them while they were involved with Maharaji. The forum provides a lot of support for this process, and I think it's a place of healing.

Also, I would add that I hope that everyone who posts here who 'ain't done yet' will one day be able to 'look to the future'. Some people already have done that, in fact.

Thanks again, Richard (and I'm glad to see you here).
Katie
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Date: Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 11:30:53 (EST)
From: Happy
Email: None
To: Richard , Katie, LF
Subject: Tom's Post...again
Message:
Well analysed, Richard. I certainly agree on all your points - and also Katie's. For me, at least, it's been extremely therapeutic to express myself, for the first time, really, about all the anger I felt against M., for all the lives he has ruined.
This site has proved incredibly valuable. It is also terrific that all of us, from different parts of the world, can communicate directly and share information with each other that eventually will bring Prem Pal down.

We might differ in our views on some things, like whether we consider meditation to have a value or not - but we all agree that he is a fraud, and we want to see him stopped, once and for all, we want to see him pay for what he has done. Although he can never pay, really, but he must be stopped.

Larry Flint's revelation about Monica Lewis was a real bomb - exactly what I've been waiting for! It won't be long now, I think,
and he'll be down. The more is coming out into the light, the more also the premies (Yak, I hate that word) will know, and boy, will they get mad when they see how they've been fooled! I think it's time for Prem Pal to have plastic surgery and leave for Venezuela.
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Date: Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 13:30:58 (EST)
From: Denise
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: Tom's Post...again
Message:
I just discovered this site a few days ago and have read much of it but not too much of the Forum. I found your message to Richard interesting and you seem healthy. I enjoyed reading what you had to say and want to question you and others.
I must say that I am a current premie and a psychotherapist. My first impression of this site is that it was a place for people to work out their anger and that is good. It also seems (so far) that most of the exs are those who received K in the early days, are there any who did later than , say, 1984 or so?
I am in my mid-thirties and received K in '82 after the craziness was pretty much over, but I was aware of it. Maybe unlike you I have never given too much money and hardly any time in these 16 years. I enjoy the experience of K, but at times get confused about M. The situation for me is that my experience of K is so strong and joyful I guess that I could never let go of it and even when I don't know how I feel about M I still feel happy to have it. I was told after receiving K that I could just take it and go on with my life without involvement, etc. I guess my second question to Katie and whoever is if you did have a good experience of K itself, can you just enjoy the experience itself for what it is, not necessarily connected to M? Can you keep the baby and throw out the bathwater if it doesn't suit you?
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Date: Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 13:49:29 (EST)
From: Happy
Email: None
To: Denise
Subject: Tom's Post...again
Message:
Although your question was addressed to Katie, I can answer for myself (I started a thread about 'the baby and the bathwater'-issue which is somewehere below). I am myself, as you, a professional psychologist and Ph. D.

Yes, you may very well meditate without M, and probably better.
I think it is clear from the posts here that many still meditate,
at least sometimes, while others find it impossible after realizing M's fraudalence. On the other hand, it is important to realize that M. has neither legal nor psychological right
to the techniques he claims are his. He doesn't own them. I suggest you study the links to ex-premie.org, for instance those set up by Jean-Michel and AE. They are very revealing.

Also, I would like to point out that this forum, as I understand it, is not only a question of anger and getting steem out, but also to expose M and inform aspirants and people who are still stuck with him about some facts about M that they need to know.
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Date: Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 14:27:40 (EST)
From: Rick
Email: None
To: Denise
Subject: Tom's Post...again
Message:
Hi Denise,
Yes, you can keep the baby and throw out the bathwater. Although I received knowledge in the early days (1977), I still meditate regularly and it works just the same without maharaji or any of the mind programming.
Rick
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Date: Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 14:40:34 (EST)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Rick
Subject: Tom's Post...again
Message:
Rick,

YOU MEDITATE? how come yer such a nazi then? I thought meditation turned people into puffy little luv puppies.

PS just kidding about the nazi part, really meant commie :)
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Date: Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 14:48:52 (EST)
From: Rick
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Tom's Post...again
Message:
Yes, Gerry, I meditate, usually every day. I get flammished easily and it helps my mashugina sachel. But speaking of nazi, who was it that liked Reagan? LIKED REAGAN?!!!!! LIKED RONALD FUCKING REAGAN!!!!!????

By the way, isn't it fantabulous that Clinton got aquitted. Yeahhhhhh!
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Date: Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 15:04:32 (EST)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Rick the med hed
Subject: Tom's Post...again
Message:
I LUV RONNIE!


bill bites

damn can't get my html to work...
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Date: Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 15:03:38 (EST)
From: Denise
Email: None
To: Rick and Happy
Subject: Your Previous Message, History
Message:
Glad to hear the two of you can still enjoy the experience inside. I have found it has brought great joy to my life and made it much more fulfilling.
I feel a real sense of gratitude to M for K and at times a strong love, but at the time I received K this 'devotee' relationship was not stressed or really even discussed. As I stated previously, I was aware of much of the previous stuff because of premies who couldn't let it go. I figured that as natural growth and maturation of M, he dropped the aspects related to Hinduism and India because he was able to let go of baggage that really had nothing to do with the experience.
I did read through the history section and did learn quite a few things in more detail than I previously had known. I don't know whether to think some of it is skewed because of the nature of the site or what. It is confusing for me and I do feel ...um...weird about mostly the financial gain element emphasized on the site.
I'm not sure how this should affect me, I must again state how incredible this experience has been so should I really care if the person who 'turned me on to' this experience is wealthy?
Another thought about this is that why should M visit and propagate K in extremely poor countries in Africa where one would have little, if anything, to gain financially? I'm not saying you're wrong, but this goes back to an attempt to determine whether the information given is factual or skewed or both.
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Date: Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 16:16:39 (EST)
From: Orlando
Email: None
To: Denise
Subject: Your Previous Message, History
Message:
Hi Denise
i recommend that you check out the following sites that might clarify some of your questions:
www.maharaji.org (Maharaji's own web site)
and
www.enjoyinglife.org (a site managed by people who practice knowledge)

Hope this helps
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Date: Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 23:09:38 (EST)
From: VP
Email: None
To: Orlando
Subject: Brian, concerning advertising
Message:
Hi Denise
i recommend that you check out the following sites that might clarify some of your questions:
www.maharaji.org (Maharaji's own web site)
and
www.enjoyinglife.org (a site managed by people who practice knowledge)
Hope this helps


Brian,
Shouldn't the premies who advertise here have to PAY to do so? You could charge Superbowl rates and then you could quit your day job.
Just kidding, Orlando.
Don't want anyone's panties to get in a wad.
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Date: Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 16:30:16 (EST)
From: Rick
Email: None
To: Denise
Subject: Your Previous Message, History
Message:
Denise,
You threw a few curve balls in this last post. First, when you say you're glad we can still enjoy the experience inside, you're talking as though it is possible to not enjoy an experience that is 'inside'. All experiences are inside, so naturally, if you're experiencing enjoyment, it IS inside, and it IS enjoyable.

If you're talking about the 'peace that passeth all understanding' or the whole 'lotus flower' thing, or the 'divine' love thing, I take exception to that. This is the programming you get in the cult.

What I 'experience' meditating is nothing divine. It's relaxing and it helps me feel centered. It is absolutely no solution to life's problems or ANY problem. If you're suffering over something in life, meditation may help you approach it from a more grounded feeling or perspective, but it's affect on life's major troubles is barely significant.

I feel a real sense of gratitude to M for K and at times a strong love, but at the time I received K this 'devotee' relationship was not stressed or really even discussed. As I stated previously, I was aware of much of the previous stuff because of premies who couldn't let it go.

Denise, you say you feel devotion despite the fact it wasn't stressed when you received knowledge. Then you say you were aware of the 'devotee' relationship because of premies who couldn't let it go. So, which is it, are you supposed to let it go or are you supposed to feel it? If you feel it and speak of it with fondness, why should others let it go?

It's suspicious that you think premies should let the devotion go, after they were brow-beaten by majaraji for years to devote themselves. He spoke with complete confidence that devotion was the path to surrender to Lord, and that this was salvation. Many people staked their lives on his directions and their decisions were very costly. People abandoned family, friends, educations, careers, hobbies, goals... you name it.

We abandoned everything to pursue what maharaji told us was the greatest goal in life. We did it his way. So for you to imply that it would be unreasonable for premies to not 'let it go' is questionable. What's up with that, Denise.

I figured that as natural growth and maturation of M, he dropped the aspects related to Hinduism and India because he was able to let go of baggage that really had nothing to do with the experience.

Denise, this is just completely untrue. When I received knowledge in 1977, maharaji wore expensive suits, drove sports cars, played with computers, and called his assistants 'initiators' (changed from mahatmas, to shed the Eastern Hindi trip). Simultaneously, maharaji launched the biggest drive for premies to totally dedicate their whole lives to him. The initiators who represented him, urged premies to leave their families, ignore everything in the world but maharaji, and join the ashram. If you couldn't join the ashram, you were still urged to shed as many ties to the world, as possible.

I would like to challenge your statement that it has brought great joy to your life. What do you mean? Do you have more joy than you used to? What was life like before? Do you have joy more often than before? How much more often?

The way I see it, is that the only way this could be possible is if some magic or divinity is afoot. Certainly, the physical meditation techniques don't bring joy. Are you getting the joy from maharaji? Who is he that he can bring joy to you and how does he do it?

I realize that analyzing like this may not be appealing to you, but I think if you do, you may find that your beliefs are unfounded.

Denise, I really have to question how incredible your experience is. As I've gotten older (I'm 46), when I hear that someone is amazed by their experience, it usually indicates that something either isn't quite right, or whatever is happening is transitory. Or the person has something else going on, underneath, that generates the need for their life to be so 'incredible'. How incredible is it, Denise? Really. I'm sorry. I just don't believe you.

The reason maharaji's financial gain is important, is that it is the backbone of his fraud. He leads a cult that programs your mind into believing that he is the source of something that is magnificent. However magnificent your experience is, I'm sure it is from you, not him. If you and other premies knew this, they wouldn't be sending off their hard earned money.

Maharaji's wealth creates suspicion because it is hypocritical. His teachings are that the joy that comes from his knowledge is independent of material wealth. Yet he basks in material wealth himself. Most of the money he gets, is what little extra income his middle-class premies have. The reason you should care about this is because it impugns maharaji's integrity. The more you look, the less there is.

There could be many reasons maharaji visits poor countries. If he wants to establish an international base, he needs to cover as much territory as possible. His motives are probably equally as egotistical as financial (i.e., he thinks he's God).
Rick
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Date: Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 18:16:39 (EST)
From: Denise
Email: None
To: Rick
Subject: Your Previous Message, History
Message:
Rick, I understand that many of you are angry because of decisions that you made because of what may have been presented to you by M or the org. I, however, was a 19 year old college student (I'm now 35) when I received K and attended a major university and did all the 'normal things'. I continued along a normal path, got several degrees, good job, married an attorney, had two boys and live in the suburbs. Normal life, except that I have something special that I will always carry with me regardless of how I feel about M. I did everything I would have done without K as far as lifestyle.

I'm sorry it's difficult to believe I could have a wonderful, joyous experience of life not necessarily connected to external events, but I must honestly tell you it's true and has nothing to do with how anyone told me to feel. I am not and have never been gullible and I don't follow anyone blindly. All I know is that my consciousness and perception of life is different depending on how much I meditate and yes, this could be due to chemical changes in the brain or whatever. I don't really care what the mechanism of it is, I just want to feel it.

Also, if I wasn't open-minded, as I assume most of y'all are, I wouldn't bother to have investigated this site in the first place.
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Date: Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 18:59:21 (EST)
From: Rick
Email: None
To: Denise
Subject: Your Previous Message, History
Message:
Denise,
You're removing the responsibility from Maharaji for misleading thousands of people. In therapy, they call that 'enabling', right? You make excuses for someone when you know they fucked up.

Just because you didn't get hurt by this, doesn't mean others weren't. It's irrelevant which of maharaji's instructions you followed yourself.

He said he was God, and to surrender the reigns of your life. He said he could remove your karma if you devoted every inch of your being to him. Then, after years of doing this, he changed the requirements to just a minimal participation. Now how the hell does this work, Denise? Did something change in the heavens, where you don't need to do as much to be in nirvana?

I watched for years, as thousands of people sweated their asses off for a drop of bliss, and you stroll in here like Barbie and Ken, and say you got the damn prize because of WHAT? Because you sit on your fat ass? Get fucking real. Sell crazy someplace else; we're all stocked up here.
Rick
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Date: Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 16:31:36 (EST)
From: Robert
Email: None
To: Denise
Subject: Your Previous Message, History
Message:
Dear Denise,

Much of what you read on this site is, in fact, horribly skewed. Much of the 'data' is made up out of thin air, gossip is repeated over and over 'til it becomes 'factual,' and on and on...It is a place for spleen-venting, not accurate information. The site started with a bogus story about Maharaji being imprisoned in Nigeria (which, of course, never happened) and has steadily slid downwards from there. Take anything you read here with a veritable Himalaya of salt. Good luck and best to you.
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Date: Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 17:01:55 (EST)
From: ham
Email: None
To: Robert
Subject: Robert & Orlando
Message:
'The site started with a bogus story about Maharaji being imprisoned in Nigeria (which, of course, never happened).'

Indeed it didn't, I would seriously cut down on either the serious class a drugs you are taking, or the the devotion. That story was about a bogus maharaji, a premie who set up an identical org and has run it for twenty years, a little different from what you described.

Duh, are you Orlando's identical twin?

jai fat chit anand, brother ji
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Date: Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 17:10:50 (EST)
From: Orlando
Email: None
To: ham
Subject: i am not Robert
Message:
...but i agree with him (although i did not know about the Nigeria thing)
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Date: Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 17:32:22 (EST)
From: ham
Email: None
To: Orlando
Subject: i am not Robert
Message:
I'm beginning to wonder if you're just simple, not stupid.

Drop the premie mask Orlando, lets dialogue as they say if you're up for it.

Do you think that every comment by ex's here, are blatant lies or what?
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Date: Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 02:23:00 (EST)
From: Runamok
Email: None
To: ham
Subject: i am not Robert
Message:
Honest Ham, I'm not!
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Date: Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 03:36:06 (EST)
From: ham
Email: None
To: Runamok
Subject: i am not Robert. I'm not
Message:
You're wicked Run!

Jus remembered your post re techno tribe, hadn't heard of them, but interested, any details?
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Date: Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 06:52:43 (EST)
From: Runamok
Email: None
To: ham
Subject: I mean, would I lie?
Message:
I dunno Ham, are you sure that wasn't someone else named Runamok? I mean trying using it as your handle on any major server and you'll see that it's really a not so uncommon name.

I am actually relatively naiive about techno/house etcetera. If I start saying something hip like Prodigy is really not too bad or something, a knowledgeable dude like you will probably be laughing your way out of the three worlds or something.

But at least we could change the subject instead of dealing with a bunch of premie crashers (ugh!). Anyway, I've been hearing about Information Society but haven't heard them that I remember. And here's some more recent bands: Bunker Soldier and Lollipop Guild. I dunno, Prodigy was decent, or NIN. I'm just hearing about these other groups. You tell me. It's interesting. But can I get a grant to do anthropological research on these people?

PS I really am NOT Robert! I don't even like Miragey!
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Date: Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 16:04:29 (EST)
From: ham
Email: None
To: Runamok
Subject: I mean, would I lie?
Message:
Awwight, Run, you wicked man, you!

You ever get a chance to see the Prodigy live, you gotta go, never seen any band or person, ever, as good as them. On vinyl I like 'em but not in my list of absolute faves, except maybe Lost In Space.

As for the other bands you mention, apart from NIN, never heard of them. NIN too industrial/robotic for me.

'PS I really am NOT Robert! I don't even like Miragey!'.

That's what you say, but I bet you're one of his generals, and being paid handsomely to boot.
Can you believe some of these premies, frightening really, really sad. Ahh well, thank god we're still not around.
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Date: Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 09:42:21 (EST)
From: Orlando
Email: None
To: ham
Subject: i am not Robert
Message:
ham
no EVERYTHING... but, some stuff is outrageous.
one typical exemple: check out Nimrod's new post:
(about escorting Mataji to the airport at gunpoint). it does not matter if it is true or not, he will just write it.
if nobody says anything about it, it will become automatically the OFFICIAL version that will get repeated over and over again...
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Date: Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 17:35:15 (EST)
From: Brian
Email: brian@ex-premie.org
To: Robert
Subject: Your Previous Message, History
Message:
Much of what you read on this site is, in fact, horribly skewed. Much of the 'data' is made up out of thin air, gossip is repeated over and over 'til it becomes 'factual,' and on and on...It is a place for spleen-venting, not accurate information.

Much of what you read anywhere is skewed, horribly or not. History is a collection of 're-collections' of the people who lived through it. It's then formatted by those who are willing to take the time to gather and write it. It's accepted as gospel by those unwilling to challenge it. What part do you object to, Robert? You've made no contribution here. Have you contributed anywhere else?

What's 'true' depends on who you ask. Maharaji has declined to contribute his personal Journeys entry to this site.Perhaps Robert can persuade him that we're all just dying to read the 'truth' as he 'recollects' it.

The site started with a bogus story about Maharaji being imprisoned in Nigeria (which, of course, never happened) and has steadily slid downwards from there.

This site was started by two people who were refused cooperation by Maharaji and Elan Vital. They gathered what was available at the time. The Nigerian Maharaj Ji is a real person who copied the guru style (and meditation techniques) of Prempal Rawat, and he was just a fraudulent in his claims of divinity. The page was removed over a year ago when I determined that it had no relevance to our own Ex-Lord.

Take anything you read here with a veritable Himalaya of salt.

Accept blindly what you read elsewhere.
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Date: Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 16:47:20 (EST)
From: ham
Email: None
To: Denise
Subject: Your Previous Message, History
Message:
If anything I find it more rewarding to meditate now, or to contact that general territory of experience, without all the 'spiritual'/'new age connotations'.

GM is I think a complicated person who is seriously fucked up, but still believes the perfect master trip on some level, I suspect mainly because of promises to his father. Without stuff like Africa etc he wwould be patently a money merchant. As it is he's got to seed the non-developed world because the numbers are drying up fast in the west.

Of the 83000 people partaking of the worldwide satellite event over 60000 were from India & Nepal. 20,000 from the rest of the world. Not too impressive, last year only 366 new 'premies' in the USA. When you consider that 90% approx drop out of site within 18 months, that leaves 36 approx active gains last year in the USA.

If you've read the background you'll know that the techniques were borrowed from elsewhere, not his at all. If you're glad to have the techniques, don't you think YOU deserve more of the credit than him, for tracking them down, if it hadn't been him a very good chance you would have found another 'teacher', but without you or others supplying the dosh he needs for his very expensive lifestyle, he'd be fucked.

I know someone who got shown the k techniques within the last 18 months who has found this site an eye opener, still meditates, but how shall I say, sees gm in a slightly different light.

You are very lucky to have missed the serious institutional abuse period.

Happy hunting, ham
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Date: Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 17:22:54 (EST)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: ham
Subject: BS figures & statistics
Message:
France has been about 20% of the figures for Europe, and Europe 50% of the figures for western countries.

These figures were still valid in 1997, and have been valid for years, I was into it because of my service.

Some figures are true in the recent ones: 750 premies from France watched the satellite broadcast, 400 in Marseille, 350 in Paris.

That means less than 3,500 for Europe, and less than 8,000 for the western countries.

The BS figures come from EV's way of counting attendance.

Ask Gail or some other recent exes how EV is counting premies. Nobody does anything close to this!
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Date: Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 17:51:32 (EST)
From: ham
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: BS figures & Zidane(ot)
Message:
J-M, weren't the bar charts on his site wicked, they cracked me up, anyone who's even read an introductory book on statistics would know that only dodgy (crooked) advertisers from the 1950's would try that one & think they weren't transparently fraudulent to anyone with even half-a-mind!

Highly amusing.

I never did thank you for all the radha background stuff on the techniques & history etc, like the dot at the end of the sentence for me. Much appreciated.

Send my regards to Eric Rohmer, an old fave of mine.

But hey, while on a French trip, bit naughty the way you lot embarrassed us at Wembley last week. How have the right/NF dealt with Zidane becoming a national hero?
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Date: Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 19:36:22 (EST)
From: Rick
Email: None
To: ham
Subject: BS figures & Zidane(ot)
Message:
What I liked about the bar charts was how one bar would be more than twice the size of the bar next to it, when the increase was less than 10%. Duhhhh.
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Date: Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 17:03:29 (EST)
From: g's mom
Email: None
To: Denise
Subject: For Denise
Message:
Some things to think about:

I think a person could have a good experience with meditation. But to attribute one's good experience meditating to, frankly, I cannot call him Maharaji, to me it is like the artist formerly known as, he likes to rename himself every so often, Rawat, is a mistake. He does not have a unique ability to show a person these meditation techniques. Others use them and teach them too. Read JMs site, and use common sense.

I was a premie in the days before you got there. In those days he not only took credit for the techniques we kissed his feet and thanked him for every breath. We thought, because he wanted us to believe it, that he created us and gave us life.

All the rumors and gossip about his personal life are fascinating. But you do not need them to see Rawat for what he really is. What he really is is a charlatan. A fake, a con man. All the things you need to prove that are well documented fact. He presented himself as god. Lord of the Universe. If you read this site they have excerpts of his satsangs in which he said so. The words to Arti say so.

In my opinion, if one presents himself as god, and then suddenly realized that ooops, I was not god after all, it simply is unethical beyond belief to morph into a gentle meditation teacher to continue to live the lifestyle to which he has become accustomed. Does he not owe an explanantion to those who he let kiss his feet, give their trust funds to him, live in his ashrams for years, sacrifice their families....

Do you see what I am saying? It is really not hard to see the guy is not a good person or an honest person. I think most of the rumors about his personal life are true. I think as a psychologist, you might be able to tell us a few things about what a man would be like who was trying to present himself as god and was worshiped all his life as god, but knew he wasn't. Is alchoholism so hard to buy? Using people in his sexual relationships when no one will say no to him he is GOD? Being nasty to his devotees? What would the psyche be of such a man?

But even if he lived the life of a boy scout...once you spend years of your adult life allowing people to devote themselves to you as god, well, if it ain't true you have something big to answer for. So it is very simple for someone who is struggling with this. Stick to what you know is true. And it is true without a doubt, he presented himself as God, the creator, Lord of the Universe...and a person who does that is not a good person, he is a bad person exploiting others weaknesses for his personal gain, and he certainly isn't a benign teacher.
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Date: Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 17:26:53 (EST)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: g's mom & Denise
Subject: For Denise/g's mom
Message:
Great post, g's mom. Denise, the post from g's mom is the post I wish I would have written to you. I didn't mean mine to sound snotty.

Denise, I wish you peace, with your grapplings with maharaji, this forum is a great place to get your questions answered,
Helen
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Date: Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 16:43:07 (EST)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Denise
Subject: Tom's Post...again
Message:
We had a whole baby and bathwater thread awhile ago, Denise.
I suggest you keep reading stuff here. If you are confused about how you feel about Maharaji (as you have said in two posts now), don't you think you should investigate him a little deeper?

From what I've read that you've posted, you sound like someone who, at this point, is willing to overlook negative, unethical, or immoral things Maharaji might be doing or has done in the past, because 'Hey, my experience is a good one'

You seem to think all the bad stuff happened in the crazy 70's, well, guess what, it's all been driven by Maharaji's greed, the whole shabang, then and now.

Just keep reading here. You'll figure it all out.
Helen

.
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Date: Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 18:21:24 (EST)
From: Zac
Email: None
To: Denise
Subject: Denise Here are some clue's
Message:
If Maharaji were simply a 'master' meditation teacher and gave knowledge free and accepted donations as people felt it, he would be a hero. This unfortunately is not the case. Regardless of what you hear about the old days. They are not so old. Maharaji has 'total control' over many people at this time. As a Psychiatrist is this healthy for those people? This mindset trickles down to the smallest community where people will fuck-over their so called friends if it means getting a little closer to the 'source of the experience.'Why do you think people go to work for him for a pittance for years, cooking, butlering, chauffering, security? Source of the experience. Why did he get his mansion built with little labor costs? Source of the experience. Why do people scrape up money to fly halfway around the world to hear his teaching, when they can get it on tape 2 weeks later? Source of the experience. Many of the followers are totally programmed to think they must attend as many events as possible, give money, etc. to keep going on the path. I have friends that still have their lives on hold, no house, no career, no spouse, no plans. Just make it to the next program. Is that healthy I ask you? Why hasn't this changed in the last 20 years if in fact Maharaji grew up and changed everything? Because no one is going to scrape all the paint off of the floor of his garage with a putty knife as I did if he they don't beleive he is the source of the experience.
If Maharaji were simply going to spread this knowledge to the world, Africa and all, hero style it would be fun. It is not fun. It sucks being involved with Maharaji. I can't express this clearly enough. My advice is that you should get really involved in his mission and see just how much fun it isn't. Get ready to suspend your common sense and lose all sense of balance in your life. Get ready to dis your friends, your spouse, your family, put your work responsibilties on hold and truly give of yourself; To the source of the experience. You will lose your experience of course did I almost forget to tell you that. That will leave you with... well nothing, but an echo of the master's voice ringing in your ears. 'Come on premies how about some propagation.' Please report back to us!
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Date: Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 19:47:32 (EST)
From: Denise
Email: None
To: Zac
Subject: Denise Here are some clue's
Message:
Zac, I hear you and I guess I just can't relate because not only do I feel like my external world hasn't changed because of K, but of all of the premies that I know, they all seem to have a 'normal' lifestyle as well. I do know two who never married and had previously resided in the ashram, but it seems to me that the two I have in mind are just immature and never got over the hippie thing, avoid responsibility.

I seem to have really pissed off Rick in that I didn't have to renounce my whole lifestyle to benefit from K, but nevertheless I have. I guess I'd be pretty angry as well if 'the rules had changed'. Maybe things aren't really the same as they used to be, or am I missing something?
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Date: Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 20:12:52 (EST)
From: Zac
Email: None
To: Denise
Subject: Back so fast, Okay Clue #1
Message:
Denise- Currently, as in now, there are many, many people who Maharaji can say jump and they will only, I repeat only, ask how high. They will not consult their common sense before taking action. They will run roughshod over anything or anyone that gets in their way to accomplish whatever. Could be to get him a glass of water. Why do they do this and what is the source of their angst?
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Date: Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 20:35:51 (EST)
From: Marshall
Email: None
To: Denise
Subject: Denise Here are some clue's
Message:
Denise,
It's funny how hard you're trying to rationalise and justify your experience with Maharaji and his 'knowledge'. You sound exactly like my mother, who coincidentaly is also a therapist. She joined up way back in the good old days of surrender and devotion that you've 'heard about'. I was there for the whole trip as a young kid, and the memories make me cringe. My mother can't seem to accept that I feel like my experience with gmj was harmful to me. She thinks I'm just trying to blame my problems on Maharaji rather than take personal responsibility.
When I asked her at age ten who she loved more, me or the guru, she hesitated and choked, then explained that it was thanks to the guru that she was even ABLE to love me.' Gee, thanks mom'. I've also read that exact same story here about someone else. As a psychiatrist what effect do you think that could have on someone? What kind of organization would create someone who would say such a thing to their own child? I take it you wouldn't have said that to your children, because you can keep the baby and throw out the bathwater, good for you, but do you think that the people here, like me, are just deluded and looking for someone to blame, or are they experiencing real, justified, pain over this stuff? Try to be objective and see beyond your own selfish 'experience', Denise?
Everybody here can't be wrong.
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Date: Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 21:00:15 (EST)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Marshall
Subject: why oh why...
Message:
are we coddling this babe? She's a premie, a cult member, and of course it means she will go to any length to defend her goober and her untenable position as a cult member.

She's in a CULT. Of course she can't see that, she's in a cult. This means she has been brainwashed. No matter how nicey nice she is or how ''brutish'' that jerk off Nil seems, they are two peas in the same pod.

Personally, I'm with Herr Rick on this one. I think she is full of shit and don't believe her for one blissful minute.

I don't give a fuck how many degrees she has, she a cult dope. Period. And the reason I oppose her is that she, like all cult members are into recruiting others to be down in the same hole she's in.
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Date: Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 21:27:25 (EST)
From: Denise
Email: None
To: Marshall
Subject: Denise Here are some clues
Message:
I don't need to justify anything, I'm just saying that not everyone has had a negative experience. Actually, that incident that occured when you were a child sounds pretty traumatic to me, so I guess I can't relate to anything like that either.

If you had seen an earlier posting I made, you would see that I don't necessarily think you are all wrong. I have learned some things from your site and have some questions about some things myself because of it. If you really want people to take your site seriously (as I had more at first) , you need to explain your point of view and try to be as factual as possible. Who knows, maybe y'all are right and I need to rethink things but maybe it's possible M just worked all the 'bugs' out of the org. from earlier.

As far as the financial info, who got this and from what source?
I'm not necessarily doubting y'all, but in order to make informed decisions, I need some more background on this. Anybody?
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Date: Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 22:33:16 (EST)
From: Zac
Email: None
To: Denise
Subject: Clueless
Message:
Denise- I asked you six questions in my first post. Not even a reference to any of them in your return post. So I narrowed it to one in my second post. Nothing. Now your asking for this and that
background anybody? Ah makeup quickly now. My spritzer quickly please... ta ta ta everyone is happy here in LaLa land, so don't rock my boat.....CLUELESS!
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Date: Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 22:58:03 (EST)
From: Marshall
Email: None
To: Denise
Subject: Gerry's right
Message:
Gee Denise, you're tone sure seems to be changing. You started out with a fascde of reasonability but that seems to be eroding rapidly. 'I don't need to justify anything', allright then go on your way, you're not going to get anywhere here with your maharaji apologist stance, believe me.
I read your other posts, and anyway I'm obviously not saying that EVERYONES experience is/was negative, so there's no need to point that out. A lot of people apparantly are having an experience, whether that experience has anything to do with Maharaji, is debatable. Anyway, even if people are having positive experiences is that supposed to make up for the people who feel ripped off? Just because you haven't given very much doesn't mean others haven't. People that took it a little more seriously than you, gave up trustfunds and inheritances. Seriously. Do you think they were foolish? Why have YOU been so frugal with your master?
As far as gmj's wealth goes, he's worth a reported 50-200 million dollars. You probably don't believe this but who cares what you think? You don't know anything. You just want to stay in denial, better get off this site and go meditate, quick.
Maharaji is obviously ridiculously rich, and obsessed by money. Reportedly he won't go anywhere unless the premies there can provide 10,000 dollars a day for expenses. $20,000 if he's with his family. This was reported recently by a reliable insider.
Where do you think he got all his money? How many videos do you own?
I don't think you are willing to look at this as open mindedly as you think. Maybe your thinking has been programmed by somebody.
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Date: Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 00:06:48 (EST)
From: Tom
Email: None
To: Denise,Rick,Happy, et al
Subject: Talking is Good
Message:
It seems my post lit an instigating spark. The first thread responding to my post was so nothing compared to this! Now we see both premies and ex-premies coming in to share. Lots of good comments. I wish I could address them all.

Johnny, what I said was not meant to lecture. Your mind can interpret it according to your experience. I apologize if I have offended those feeling maligned by M. However, at some point the focus has to go positive and not sustain negative. The Hindu scriptures say to accept no praise and no blame. Be even-minded. You are the top priority, not M. When it is understood that you have your own power, the perceived Lord-dom of others diminishes.

Katie, you're right. Some people choose to remain stuck in anger. And there comes a time to move beyond that. Those who want to resurrect the hurt of their cruci-fiction, and perpetuate it in their minds incessantly, seem to have some obsession with pain. This may be a result of M initially, but again, they need to move on eventually to be whole. No one here is irrevokably damaged, unless they choose to be so. If the obsession continues, they should seek professional advice. Period. They may not be as strong.

Happy, 'some find it impossible to meditate' after their experience? Whose fault is that? It is nothing but the mind that continues that dialogue. Reprogramming is recommended.

The only way this webpage will succeed in its 'mission' is to bring premies into the mix. To get them to read and to participate.

Rick, I have to disagree that meditation is nothing more than a relaxing thing. It can be much MUCH more. However, I would, as I think you did, question a _premie_ who tells you to 'let it go'.
But to say that when you hear that someone is amazed by their experience meaning to you that something is not right, well, it happens..it happened to you, and a lot of people, once upon a time..it happens to a lot of people in a lot of disciplines. Not always a red flag.

Denise, ahh Denise.. you bravely assert your position. But wait...this experience is available in many places. M is not neccessarily a vital ingredient. Put your devotion, if that's part of your fuel, towards a more worthy Master. You may be surprised..

Han -- (not Shri Hans ) - you are correct that some of us were lucky to have missed the institutional abuse period. In my case, I chose not to swallow the hook. Let me ask you, what drew you in, what kept you in? Did you have life-changing experiences? Or was it just so-so? Real and valid experience is available to us all. Somehow M was the catalyst for my path. The mind as the enemy..yes, valid satsang. We all have a spark of perfection...again, true. Surrender..yes..but tread carefully...there are many predators. I managed to avoid getting sucked in all the way. But again, maybe its my nature as an independent type not easily fooled. I kept the organization at arm's length..

Some premies are happy now. Some are like Denise. They should look a little deeper, hold their bliss, and move beyond. Bliss is too comfortable. No challenges, no evolution. At some point they, too, will grok something more, will understand THEY are the guru.
We have our own, every one of us.

I have to say I am more optimistic about people like Denise than the embittered and the revengeful.
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Date: Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 10:06:41 (EST)
From: Denise
Email: None
To: Tom
Subject: Talking is Good
Message:
Tom, you sound like someone I can respect. I was really beginning to wonder whether the deal was that all of the exs just didn't have any positive experience so moved on. I figured there must have been some motivation that kept people working, giving, devoting as long as they did that was more than a promise.

Thank you for making it o.k. for a premie to be welcome on this site, at least by a few. I was also beginning to wonder if I had invaded a private clique that didn't want any other opion than their own. If y'all really want to make a difference, you're going to have to be open to everyone-public, exs, and premies alike. Maybe there are more like me that came in after the craziness and haven't had any reason to suspect anything negative was happening.

Tom, I'm not ruling out that I am all I need. I guess at this point I'm unsure. All I can think is that if nothing else, M takes the time and effort to teach people a way to access this bliss. You seem to be one of the few who believe it (bliss) is really there. That's been my motivation all these years.

At this point I just want to learn more from others who can pass on their experiences and opinions in a rational manner, such as yourself, Katie, g's mom for a few so far.
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Date: Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 11:30:50 (EST)
From: Bobby
Email: bobby2@mindspring.com
To: Denise
Subject: Talking is Good
Message:
Denise, there are plenty of folks who hold opinions other than those that are voiced here. It takes a lot of energy to speak out on this forum. Generally speaking, alternative views to those presented here are unwelcome and often harshly blasted.

That being said, I find value here at times and like some of the folks who post. I appreciate expressions of honesty and feeling and varieties of perspective but don't appreciate personal attacks and vindictiveness.

I was active with Maharaji in the seventies. I lived in the ashram and premie communities for a several years. Today I continue to follow my own spiritual path, mostly Buddhist. Although I no longer consider Maharaji to be an 'enlightened master' (whatever that is), I have no regrets for my involvement.

I have many friends, both current and ex-premies, who I highly respect. Most are not sorry for their participation.
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Date: Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 12:04:50 (EST)
From: Denise
Email: None
To: Bobby
Subject: Talking is Good
Message:
Thanx for letting me hear your point of view.
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Date: Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 14:12:59 (EST)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Tom
Subject: Talking is Good
Message:
Hi Tom - just one comment on the part of your post that was addressed to me:
Katie, you're right. Some people choose to remain stuck in anger. And there comes a time to move beyond that. Those who want to resurrect the hurt of their cruci-fiction, and perpetuate it in their minds incessantly, seem to have some obsession with pain. This may be a result of M initially, but again, they need to move on eventually to be whole. No one here is irrevokably damaged, unless they choose to be so. If the obsession continues, they should seek professional advice. Period. They may not be as strong.

I agree with what you say in principle, but what I've found by working on the site and forum is that you have to accept people where they are right now. I don't think that anyone can decide whether someone else is 'stuck in anger'. I might have my opinions about that, but it's impossible to make that judgement from what people say on the forum. I'm not saying that YOU are doing that, but it sounds like you MIGHT be from your post, and that's what I'm responding to.

As far as people being irrevocably damaged, I have mixed feelings about that. I do think therapy can be very healing - I've experienced that myself. But although I, personally, was not all that damaged by my experience with Maharaji (I was far more damaged by other things that happened in my life), I can relate to other people who post here who were damaged by Maharaji. While I still believe that this damage COULD be healed eventually, I'm more realistic now than I used to be. My main priority now is learning how to accept and live with my own damages - to recognize them, admit them, and deal with them in such a way that they don't have a negative impact on my life and other people's lives. In other words, I'm learning how to live with the damage.

I guess what I'm trying to say, and please understand that I am not being condescending here, is that I hope you can accept the other people on this site as being where they are at right now. I know that the rage and anger on this site can be very hard for many people to deal with, but basically, it's what the people who are expressing it are actually feeling. I don't, however, feel that other people who may NOT be feeling that way have to respond to it, answer posts, defend themselves, and so forth.

Take care,
Katie
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Date: Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 00:21:56 (EST)
From: Rick
Email: None
To: Denise
Subject: Denise Here are some clue's
Message:
Denise,
I'm not pissed off that you didn't renounce your lifestyle but because you're being evasive and vague. The point isn't what you did with your life, or what any one specific premie did.

The point is that maharaji declared he was God and would establish peace on earth. He offered salvation to those who would surrender the reigns of their life to him, and then directed them to virtually cut themselves off from their opinions, their emotions, and the rest of the world.

The fact that you, and some others, excused yourselves from these directions, or got involved after it happened, doesn't get maharaji off the hook in any way. It isn't like he changed the rules in a chess game. People's lives were affected and people were mislead. The point isn't who is pissed off and who isn't, it's that maharaji defrauded people and continues to do it.

We can only speculate the reason for maharaji to 'change the rules' from surrendering the reigns of your life in exchange for salvation, to attend a few videos and meditate a little in exchange for 'enjoy', because maharaji didn't say why he did it. I think he adjusted his confidence game to get better results.

What still remains, though, is the mind programming, and I have to say I think you got some of that. It is puzzling to me, though, what the big attraction of 'enjoy' is. How ever do you bear those videos? Oh well. To each his own. Enjoy.
Rick
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Date: Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 06:38:34 (EST)
From: Happy
Email: None
To: Denise
Subject: Trust common sense
Message:
Denise, I just read through this thread. It seems to me that you somehow deny, or can't believe, what you read on this site and on this forum. I'm sorry, but most of us have a long history in
Prem Pal's boat, we are absolutely sane, and the information is
reliable. Prem Pal is a fraud, and a dangerous fraud, too.
The evidence is all there, if you just open your eyes. You're an educated individual who should have been trained in using your common sense. I understand all these details that you read might seem shocking and unbelievable at first. My guess is, the truth about Prem Pal is even worse than we're able to prove at the moment. But the choice in what side to believe is yours.
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Date: Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 13:37:33 (EST)
From: Katie
Email: petkat@mail.trib.net
To: Denise
Subject: to Denise from Katie
Message:
Dear Denise -
Apologies for taking so long to answer your post - I haven't had much time to spend on the forum lately. I do appreciate your open-minded attitude, your willingness to treat ex-premies like people, and I think your questions are sincere. I'm glad you appreciated my message to Richard, BTW.

You wrote:
My first impression of this site is that it was a place for people to work out their anger and that is good. It also seems (so far) that most of the exs are those who received K in the early days, are there any who did later than , say, 1984 or so?

I'd like to be able to answer this question, but the truth is that I'm not sure. I think there are some people on here who received K later, but I don't recall exactly (if there is anyone like that out there, could they please come forward?). There are a lot of people who read the forum and don't post - I do know that.

You also wrote:
I was told after receiving K that I could just take it and go on with my life without involvement, etc. I guess my second question to Katie and whoever is if you did have a good experience of K itself, can you just enjoy the experience itself for what it is, not necessarily connected to M? Can you keep the baby and throw out the bathwater if it doesn't suit you?

I'm glad that other people answered this questions, because I did not really experience anything from the K meditation, although I did try to faithfully do meditation (2 hours a day), service, and satsang (which were supposedly required for the experience when I got K in 1972). You can read my Journeys entry for more details - I am Katie (Mischa) - there are two Katie's with Journeys entries, but I'm the only Katie who posts on the forum. I have had much better experiences with other forms of meditation - such as visualization. I don't think that the K meditation is 'one size fits all'. It seems to work for some people and not for others.

I did not have to give up very much, if anything, to be a premie. I got K when I was 16, and becoming a premie was definitely an improvement in my life at that point, I really appreciated the acceptance that I got from many of the premies around me. I practiced K and followed M for five years, and gradually, the experience of being a premie became very confining for me. I felt a lot of guilt and stress because I wasn't experiencing anything, which I felt was because I wasn't doing ENOUGH.

I finally quit practicing K and following M - this was very hard because I had a lot of fears about it. Maharaji had said at one point that if you got K and didn't practice it, it would be like having 3 tons of rotten vegetables in your refrigerator and not using them - they'd rot. So I was afraid I would go crazy, plus I'd become alienated from people who did not have Knowledge, and felt I was somehow different than them. I know this is probably really different from your experience - you said I was told after receiving K that I could just take it and go on with my life without involvement, etc. I'm assuming that you didn't hear threats about what would happen if you decided you did NOT want to practice K.

Anywya, I was fortunate enough to live with two other ex-premies at the time I decided to leave, and we provided a lot of support for each other. It took about a year to feel OK, and then I just forgot about it, basically, for 20 years. The reason that I got involved with this site is that I found out that a premie friend of mine committed suicide. This brought up a lot of questions for me. I'd always felt that being a premie was not that bad - but that it wasn't something I wanted to be involved in. When my friend killed himself (and I really don't know any of the details, or why he did it), I realized that following Maharaji had really harmed some people. Then I found this site and started reading some of the stories of what had happened to the ashram premies (I knew and liked many ashram premies, and my friend had been an ashram premie), and I became very upset.

I have since met a lot of the people who post on this site in 'the real world', and despite what Robert said below, what people post here is NOT 'all lies'. People were mistreated, people killed themselves, people abandoned their families, and I do believe that Maharaji bears some responsibility for all this. I cannot think of him as benign, or even neutral, anymore - he's left too many ruined lives in his path.

It's true that the presentation of K has changed - your post is proof of this. But I do think that there needs to be some acknowledgement of past abuses from Maharaji himself, and that hasn't happened. I don't have personal anger towards him, but I understand why a lot of other people who post on the forum do.

Anyway, the reason I work on the site and post on the forum is to offer support to people who might be like my friend who killed himself. I am not out to try and convert premies. What Brian and I have tried to do with the site is present the other side of the story, for people who need to hear it. (The site itself is different than the forum, BTW - I should point this out. Anybody can say ANYTHING on the forum, but we try to make the site as realistic and factual as possible, excepting the Journeys entries of course, which are people's personal stories.)

You asked about the financial information in the History pages of the site. This information was provided by several ex-premies who worked in positions of responsibility in Maharaji's organization - some of them were involved until the mid-1990's (I'm not going to 'out' them here, although they're welcome to 'out' themselves if they want to!). These ex-premies are people that Brian and I know, and who we believe are reliable sources. That's why we put it on the web page.

I know this is a long answer to a short question, and I hope you've persevered until this point! Again, I appreciate your open-minded attitude, and your willingness to actually read the material on the site, and the comments on the forum without completely dismissing them. I also appreciate it when people read the material here and use it to make their own decisions - that's one of the reasons that the site is here.

Take care,
Katie
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Date: Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 04:05:21 (EST)
From: Robert
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: to Denise from Katie
Message:
Dear Katie,

First, let me say that you, along with Bobby, are 2 of the only people on this site with anything
resembling decent human manners. I applaud you for that. By the way, Bobby, I wish you the best
in your health battles. I did not say that 'everything on this site were lies.' I said that much of what
you read here is 'horribly skewed.' And, in fact, many things I've read here were outright
fabrications, repeated over and over until they were accepted as 'facts.' The person described on this
forum doesn't even vaguely resemble Maharaji, the guy who lives in Malibu and who has a family
and a relationship with many people all over the world whose lives have been inspired and furthered
by his teachings for, in many cases, decades. The person discussed on this site is a mythical bogeyman. Perhaps people mythologized Maharaji so much in one direction that they feel the need to overcompensate in the other. They might be surprised to actually meet or talk to the real guy. Of course, as with anyone, by being rude and treating him so unconsciously as people here do, they probably won't get that chance.

If the person you refer to, who came to a sad end, was Sam J. from D.C., I knew him and liked him
very much. He was an extremely talented artist and a very sweet guy. He was also, if you really
knew him, one of the least well adjusted people (in regards to his interface with 'the world'), that I've
ever met. He had a hard time looking directly at anybody. He was so shy around women that he
could hardly bear to look at them. He couldn't stand the thought of a regular job. Do you actually
blame Maharaji for what happened to Sam when, in fact, he was like this long before he was a
premie. The reality is, he probably stayed around on this earth a little longer than he otherwise would
have because he was accepted in the wacky world of the D.C. community. If you really knew Sam,
you know what I'm saying.

I have no desire to get into a dialogue about these things. I just want you to be honest with yourself.
Katie, if Sam is who you are talking about, I thank you for bringing up his memory. I remember him
as a beautiful and gentle soul.

Best to you, Robert
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Date: Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 05:52:21 (EST)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Robert
Subject: to Robert
Message:
Dear Robert - First, I want to apologize for misquoting you. You are right that what you actually said was different that what I said that you said. I don't AGREE with you about the site, but I can accept that you feel that way.

Second, regarding Sam J., I did know him really really well at one point. We were in a relationship for over a year. Maybe I knew him better than anybody else - I have no idea about this because I lost touch with him after I became an ex-premie. I'm glad you liked him, because he was worth of being liked and loved. He really was a beautiful and gentle soul, as you put it.

I don't 'blame' Maharaji for Sam's suicide (I do not know any of the details of what happened to him, and have not been able to find out), but hearing about his death upset me very much and made me want to do something for people like Sam who might be out there needing help. I honestly thought Sam would be OK after he moved into the ashram. It upset me very much to find that the ashrams had been closed, and also to hear some of the things that had gone on in the ashrams.

I know that Sam had a lot of problems before he started following Maharaji, but I don't believe (and I did NOT experience) that practicing Knowledge and following Maharaji helped him with those problems. In fact, following Maharaji seemed to intensify some of his problems - particularly problems that he had with guilt and self-acceptance. (Although, honestly, I don't think he was as ill-adjusted as you describe.) I do think he needed some help that he didn't get from Maharaji and/or Knowledge.

I understand that you don't want to discuss this, and that's OK. I did want to say what I felt about it, and give a few more details.

Take care -
Katie
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Date: Sun, Feb 14, 1999 at 19:08:36 (EST)
From: ben there
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: group retaliation
Message:
just wondering,
has there ever been a group letter
writing campaign either to news agencies,
ie. cnn or bbc to investigate the underground
con-guru?
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Date: Sun, Feb 14, 1999 at 20:15:31 (EST)
From: ben there
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: group retaliation
Message:
The one thing which GMJ has
gone to great lengths to avoid
is the press. He has done
remarkably well at this task.

If Investigative Reports, 48 Hours
60 minutes etc. suddenly get a couple
hundred letters asking questions like
where has this con guru gone maybe
it will get somebody's attention.

The more eloquent of the posters here
could even compose and post a downloadable
letter. The addresses could be researched
and posted here as well.

We may have all been duped but there is
power in our numbers. We have an opportunity
to do whatever we can to make it hard on this
criminal to live in peace and continue to attract
the uninformed.
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Date: Sun, Feb 14, 1999 at 21:24:22 (EST)
From: AE
Email: None
To: ben there
Subject: group retaliation
Message:
I think it's all going to be taken care of. One of the reasons I've set up The truth about Maharaji web site is so that the press and media can have an easy to read site filled with the testimonies of ex-premies. And of course, Brian and Jean-Michel have done a brilliant job with there sites in providing the media with the full picture.

Now that Maharaji's started his own site, the gloves are off but I think he's failed to realise one thing; that is the media are not interested in web sites that talk about not wanting to be a leader and all of that crap on Maharaji's site. No, what the media want is scandal, heartrending stories and the true story of the man.

In a way, I almost feel sorry for Maharaji. He completely misunderstands, misjudges and underestimates people. He is so used to bing in control that he doesn't reckognise it when the tide turns against him. I believe it is a great idea to tell the media about Maharaji, as a group, as you say. It can be done quite easily these days.

Tonight I saw a very saddening sight on CNN. They were showing the terrible plight of the people in Southern Sudan and they are suffering a terrible famine with the war going on there. No medical supplies and people are starving. They showed a young woman who was dying of TB. The doctor said that she would be dead within a weak. She was young, emaciated and in obvious pain and distress, nay, despair because she knew she was going to die soon.

The camera showed a long look at her sad and tortured face. It made me feel very sad that I could do nothing to help her. In the west (first world) her disease and malnutrition could have been cured and her life saved. But she, an innocent, is doomed to die this week because of the crazy war situation in Sudan. I feel powerless and realise I can do nothing to help her and all the others out there who are dying horrible, sad deaths each day.

It reminded me of why I devoted my life to Maharaji in the early seventies - to end the suffering in the world. I really believed that Maharaji was the father who had come to stop the child crawling into the fire. I willingly gave my life back then to what I believed was the glorious flame of truth and love, for all. But in the end it turned out to be nothing more than a handful of ashes...
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Date: Sun, Feb 14, 1999 at 23:52:05 (EST)
From: dv
Email: None
To: AE
Subject: group retaliation
Message:
AE- I felt the same way. I put all my energies into this man with the understanding, from him, that we would address and solve these problems through speading knowledge.

I don't have the energy I had then, and what I do have goes to playing catch up and raising my family.

My life isn't for naught tho, I once gave a quarter to a blind man.

And my life to another one.
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Date: Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 00:15:53 (EST)
From: dv
Email: None
To: ben there
Subject: group retaliation
Message:
I agree with you whole heartedly. However, I have never seen anyone on this site want to pursue similar initiatives on a serious level, for many good reasons. Yet your reason is as valid as the rest. There is certainly plenty of media marketable fodder: Monica Lewis ski, this site, houston milleneum(sp ouch), older brother ji, younger brother ji, sister in law ji, daughter of sister in law ji, the mahatmas jis, initiator jis, darshan ji, etc. ji.
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Date: Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 01:30:57 (EST)
From: cp
Email: None
To: AE
Subject: group retaliation
Message:
...may be around the corner if the Flynt thread below is for real. It would be great if it is for real-then the pit M has dug for himself is wide and deep, and a perfect match for his deeds.
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Date: Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 03:17:47 (EST)
From: Runamok
Email: djrayovac@aol.com
To: partisans
Subject: public relations
Message:
Mirage is not exactly late-breaking news. In spite of his tremendous (and controversial) wealth, he's a washed-up has-been of a guru who could not muster the numbers he promised at Millenium '73 (ok prem baby, that your PEOPLE promised). I don't think scandals about someone that no one pays any attention to are newsworthy enough to hit the evening news. 'Attention all you CNN news-addicts: Some Indian Guru that you have never heard of is alleged to have had an affair with his brother's nanny.'

However, I think the stories can show up somewhere on a national scale if they are well documented and presented as professionally as possible. But the press is prob not imminently interested. The web is the correct place to develop this because the information is available when the time is right. Making inroads to journalists need not be the main focus of these effort. We need to concentrate on 'getting all of our ducks in a row'.

While this site is extremely informative, the press prob wants to see something concise and compact. They want all possible scandal on a single, not-too-long page. They want other stuff too- but the main thing they will need after they see something of interest is contact information. They want a number to call.

Maybe we need to meet and/or have an actual organization... It's important who they contact.
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Date: Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 05:11:59 (EST)
From: cp
Email: None
To: Runamok
Subject: public relations
Message:
Though he is not evening news material, M is a public figure from days gone by and certain publications thrive on such stories.
The tabloids love an update.
Time magazine MILESTONES is always giving a blurb on Births Deaths, Knightings , roastings and Accusings

as far as an organisation goes -it could act as a source of info-
the media like to talk to a person, but they also will accept media releases and pre written press statements.

ONe thing with an organization is that it can act as a body that simply passes the word along - not necessarily endorses the word it passes along.

Action groups like Anti Genetic Engineering and Animal Rights activist orgnizations and Anti AMway or Ex mormron groups will usually share their legal constitutions and bylaws- so a lawyer setting up an action group can adapt it to suit. These constitutions are constructed to take the heat of libel accusations and various flotsom.

but it may be as simple as a free add in the weekly classified in the cities where aspirants are bieng cultivated. You know

' THINKING OF RECIEVING KNOWLEDGE?
HAVE YOU ALREADY TAKEN THIS IMPORTANT STEP??
IT IS NOT TOO LATE TO GET TO www.expremie.com.
YOU WILL BE GLAD YOU DID.'
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Date: Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 08:39:07 (EST)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: ben there
Subject: group retaliation
Message:
Just read this whole thread. I do agree with Run that Gm isn't exactly big news but I honestly think the individual experiences of folks here on the forum are extraordinary and the world would listen if it were handled in such a way that the average person who had no interest in Gurus could get drawn in.
I'm envisioning a book or documentary or an article..but I don't know if I have what it takes to create it. Well, an article I could handle.

I do think it's a good idea to have a designated PR person who has experience with that type of thing.

But the main thing is, these web sites are here, premies and ex-es and those in between can get the info they need. I think Maharaji is on his way out b/c he loses people one by one
Drip drip drip

These web sites ARE media
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Date: Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 09:22:06 (EST)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Helen
Subject: group retaliation
Message:
IMHO, the story of this web site and the ex-premies who participate in it is more interesting and timely than revelations about Maharaji. Just a thought.
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Date: Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 16:59:34 (EST)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: group retaliation
Message:
Hey Katie, how ya doing Goddess of the Land of the Rising Sun,
I agree that this ongoing forum story that we are living is a great one. I also envision someone who can really write a story, like Jon Krakauer (except they would have to be a former premie), writing the whole premie history, starting with a preface, and Chapter 1 being a description of a festival back in the hey day, replete with 'boleshris' and excertps from satsang

But I don't have the time or money or drive to write it.

Another thing I've thought of is an anthology of stories from the forum, but it's already here so I'll come back down to earth now and get back to cleaning my house and write my article for the PTA newsletter instead
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Date: Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 20:26:27 (EST)
From: dv
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: More interesting to us, but
Message:
not to 20/20 viewers.
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Date: Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 09:27:26 (EST)
From: Zac
Email: None
To: Helen
Subject: group retaliation
Message:
I don't think the BIG STORY here is about the cult. It is about the power of the web to provide the information. Anyone interested can now become aware of the experiences of those who have received knowledge. This page points out how controlled and drively the ELK page is and at least lets someone know what can possibly happen to them once they join. It is not as benign as they would have you beleive. I am sure there are ex-premies in the media. In fact I know there are. They may have looked at this page however and noticed some tiny bit of what appears to be irrational bias. You know when someone is debating with a premie and wanting to push their buttons declares M to be a 'BIG FAT FUCK.' Well if I were in their position, 'job' I would be wary of going to my superiors with this idea for a story. In my opinion 20/20 is not going to direct it's audience to this page. Now Jerry Springer on the other hand....
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Date: Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 10:48:39 (EST)
From: Rick
Email: None
To: Zac
Subject: group retaliation
Message:
Yes, if we could get the BM to agree, we could go on the Jerry Springer show, with BM on one side (maybe with David Smith) and Jim and Katie on the other side. Jim could run over and attack BM and the cameras could go all skew-whiff.
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Date: Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 11:15:58 (EST)
From: ben there
Email: None
To: everyone
Subject: retribution
Message:
If we can inspire the news organizations
to research this subject of the rawat crime
family we could serve many purposes.
One is to re kindle the story
of the boy guru gone materialistic.
Another is to inform the innocent.

rawat has made such an effort to remain outside
of the press, we could do him the disservice
of recalling him to their attention. Possibly
even getting him some IRS and FBI attention
along the way.

This site and others serve as good resources
which demonstrate that there are plenty of
people where were bilked. There are some
powerful investigative reporters who could
benefit by the well stated facts as we know
them. I propose the group involve itself
in the compilation of a concise position paper
regarding the nefarious activities of one gmj.

Out of courtesy we can carbon copy gmj in our
submittals to all of the news agencies we can
come up with.

There is power in numbers. We may not have
money to invest in this but we have the ability
to put ten, twenty, maybe a hundred letters across
many news desks in a well orchestrated manner.
That is what turns heads and gets attention.

The story is good stuff particularly if the
property and possessions can be inventoried somehow.

One of the reasons gmj has gotten away with this scam
for so long is that we have remained silent and never
worked en masse to expose him.

He belongs underground with the other rodents but there
is no reason we shouldn't annoy him as much as possible.
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Date: Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 12:43:46 (EST)
From: cp
Email: None
To: thread
Subject: weaving with Flynt thread
Message:
As I lood at the scroll of threads- this one and the Flynt one below are weaving a similar net.
As this one inches towards a possible agreement on an approach to the paper media, Mr Flynt , if it is really him, is alluding to an April exposay (i guess I should learn how to spell that).
Crazy as this may sound in the light of day, maybe the official/spokesperson we are talking about on this thread already has his/her first task- simply get hold of Mr Larry Flynt or RT or his lawyer he refers to and sort out if it is Mr. flynt that has posted.
If it is really him there aint no better person in position to get get M the attention he deserves.
If it is not him we are back where we stared from-
How bout a nice splash on the cover of the Inquirer-- crown and all.

As doc holday says in Tombstone it is not about Revenge - its the RECKONING
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Date: Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 13:17:26 (EST)
From: Zac
Email: None
To: cp
Subject: Hustler
Message:
Cp- Judging by his recent interview on Larry King, Larry Flynt of Hustler magazine is a serious and intelligent man. There is no way he would have posted to the page with Alan-dare-show-wits as his attorney. He'd have flown Mr. Heller in to meet with his staff and we would all know about it by now... My guess is someone is preparing an April Fools surprise for all of us fools. But then again where is Jim Heller?
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Date: Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 16:28:14 (EST)
From: cp
Email: None
To: Zac
Subject: What??
Message:
my god
dont tell me its april already
I have to spend less time on this computer.

aww your funnin me --its not april yet

Im sure whatever Mr Flynt has done
he surely would not pretend it is april
when it is not.

OK OK it might not be the real Mr Flynt

But what about this goddess? Maybe Jim would go and interview her (if she would allow it)
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Date: Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 20:29:54 (EST)
From: dv
Email: None
To: cp
Subject: Jims on vacation nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 15:53:43 (EST)
From: Nephrite Godess of Zargon
Email: nephrit@zargon.com
To: Everyone
Subject: weaving with Flynt thread
Message:
I am the Lord's love child! My mother was an alien who was drawn by the Almighty to earth from distant space some 29 years ago. The Divine Grace lead her and her shipmates to a place called Dehra Dun in India, and to Maharaji. Maharaji who was 10 years old at the time took my mother as a wife and bore myself and a brother. She sadly died after giving birth to my brother whom has since become a snake charmer in Bali. When years later the spaceship returned for the others, one stayed on earth as his devotee while the other, who was with child from Maharaji, boarded the ship to take the divine seed to a new home. I was in the loo at the time and regrettably missed the boarding call. As I am rightfully entitled to a share of his wealth, I am asking him for $10,000,000 in unmarked euro-dollars, and I hope you good people will support my efforts. And just so everyone is clear, I have superpowers which I swear I'll start using if I don't get it soon. By the way, I'm glad to have found this website with so many pe
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Date: Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 16:49:20 (EST)
From: Nephrite Godess of Zargon
Email: None
To: Nephrite Godess of Zargon
Subject: Phew, that was close!
Message:
They came to my door looking for me and I had to hide in the crawl-space under the pantry. The enemies of Zargon have joined forces with the Anti-christ and they want to kill me and all the divine offspring in the universe. Merde, if only they knew I'm on their side!

I just wanted to finish by telling you all I really appreciate finding this website, and thanking all of you like-minded people here who think like I do.
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Date: Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 17:07:21 (EST)
From: Zardoz
Email: None
To: Nephrite Godess of Zargon
Subject: Phew, that was close!
Message:
Goddess,

It is a pleasure to have your acquaintance. As for thinking as we do, well, please read some more. However, if you really are M's lovechild from the stars, how far do you think euro-dollars are going to get you on Zargon? I recommend you request Zargonion dracos instead of euro-cash. Unless, of course, you plan on sticking around here on earth, in which case I would recommend demanding silver and gold. Even if you do decide to go to Zargon sometime in the future, Earth gold and silver commands the handsome trade value of 1,000 dracos for every ounce of silver and 5,000 dracos for every ounce of gold.

Just trying to be helpful.
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Date: Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 14:37:51 (EST)
From: Rawat's would be shrink
Email: None
To: all
Subject: the story I'd want to read
Message:
I think if a story was done and researched well about whatever happened to the boy guru it would be interesting to lots of people.

There are still lots of cults out there. I have seen two shows recently that were cult exposes. One was that Christian group that disappeared and another was Church of God in Christ, they have some questionable recruitment techniques on college campuses and very questionable financial dealings.

These stories about the guru's bizarre sex and family life might fit into it. But I think to the average person would be less interested in our wacko former lord's life than our own stories. Remember, David Koresh and Jim Jones also had similar tales. Most people just can't get how ANYONE could even begin to not see through these cult leaders on the first pass.

Rawat's similarities to other cult leaders is rather uncanny. Is it the absolute power thing?

And one thing that has been interwoven in all of these tales from the inner circle that I find most fascinating is that he appears to have these on again off again attacks of conscience. First in the Mischler interview. Now in this anonymous (Flynt) post. The marraige counseling and the 'gonna give it all up' are examples. I for one think that the 'Flynt' post has a great deal of truth in it. Most of these rumours have been around a while. But the suprising part to me isn't the menage a trois's (sp?
), Monica, Marolyn wanting to leave, or any of the sex stuff. It is that he let down the facade at all ever. And if this is true he did. I mean God doesn't need marraige counseling. God doesn't lose his mind when his wife cheats on him. And God doesn't talk about 'giving it all up'.

Interspersed among all the tidbits we lowly premies got from the PAM were pictures of a torn man. I think there are lots of indications Rawat has off and on wanted to be a man, not a god, during his life. But has never been brave enough, and has always been too power hungry and especially too greedy, to try out life as a man...not a god. I have no pity for him, the harm he has caused others is too great. But his story is fascinating.

Hey, if there is some PAM still out there who is contemplating writing a book please please address these issues. They are fascinating.

The other fascinating thing about Rawat is that we all have seen, once we are out, that he carries deep contempt for premies. Maybe the deepest compempt for the most devoted. And there are some stories in these posts about him being extraordinarily cruel to premies. Humiliating them, treating them like animals practically. I think this ties into his feelings of self hatred for what he has done. And his feelings of sometimes being trapped by his own scam. Like he is begging the premies around him to say, 'Fuck you Rawat' I am leaving. And feeling disgust for them when all they do is cower at his feet.

The only PAM I ever knew I always suspected knew Rawat was just a man. I really never understood why he followed him. He was different from the other premies I knew in that way. I wondered in my post cult days if Rawat kept him around just because he sort of treated him like a person not a god. I don't know really. I never understood Rawat or this premie really. It was like this premie always held just a little of himself back from being totally devoted. And I always wondered if this was why Rawat kept him in the inner circle. That and that he was rather polished, which seemed to be another highly desirable PAM trait.

Anyway, if a PAM is about to come out and tell a real story I say please analyse Rawat the man for us. Because it sounds like an interesting story. If someone cares to do a little more airchair analysis for us hey have at it!
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Date: Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 15:58:45 (EST)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Rawat's would be shrink
Subject: the story I'd want to read
Message:
I agree this would be a great story. I myself have no clue into Maharaji's psyche so I am always really interested to read people's up close and personal stories
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Date: Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 17:41:49 (EST)
From: Nil
Email: None
To: Rawat's would be shrink
Subject: the story I'd want to read
Message:
I for one think that the 'Flynt' post has a great deal of truth in it.

I just can't tell you how dumb you look! You have nothing but your own contempt for M and lust for scandle upon which to base your ready acceptance of the inane post you mention. You have completely abandoned any resemblance of critical thinking, and exposed yourself for the idiot that you clearly are.

I have seen many fools on this wayward ship, but my friend you take the cake.
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Date: Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 17:59:15 (EST)
From: ham
Email: None
To: Nil
Subject: the story I'd want to read
Message:
Could you point out which of the points in Larry's post are not true?
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Date: Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 18:54:52 (EST)
From: Nil
Email: None
To: ham
Subject: the story I'd want to read
Message:
Could you point out which of the points in Larry's post are not true?

I wouldn't waste my time. It'd be like trying to explain to a UFO club that the circles of light in the photograph are just a reflection of the camera flashon on the window. You're so hooked on your conspiracy fetish buddy and you can't see past your own reflection.
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Date: Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 19:38:45 (EST)
From: ham
Email: None
To: Nil
Subject: the story I'd want to read
Message:
'I wouldn't waste my time'.

As a defender of the lard in a time of financial stress, think of all those premie lurkers you'd be saving from their evil minds.

The blokes a guy with a dick, who needs to put it about.
And that's a 'conspiracy'?
What planet you been living on?

'It'd be like trying to explain to a UFO club that the circles of light in the photograph are just a reflection of the camera flashon on the window.'
Love the analogy Nil-nil, but don't you think you're just a touch closer to the ufo believers (gm the sole purveyor of truth) than us pragmatists & skeptics? But thanks, I'll keep that for future premies when they're 'passing through', like the proverbial bad wind from the lards arse.
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Date: Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 14:02:47 (EST)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Nil
Subject: the story I'd want to read
Message:
Nil: Critical thinking requires that you look at both sides of the argument. There is a reason 'why' so many folks here have real contempt for M. How can this be? (especially if M is so wonderful.) Think about it. Why are 'we' demonstrating so little respect for someone that you respect so much? That's the question that you should be trying to answer, IMHO.

To make my point, but not to flip your switch: You said, 'You have nothing but your own contempt for M....' I say that your 'love for M' is clouding the critical part of your thinking process. Love (or the attempt to love) can definitely do that. Look at this logically and don't let emotion cloud the process. If, after seriously investigating, you find that it is logical and 'right' to follow M, then more power to you. Just a thought.
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Date: Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 21:16:41 (EST)
From: Nil
Email: None
To: Mike
Subject: Both sides
Message:
Well yes, if one's love for another blinds them to seeing the real person... that would be a breach of critical thinking. And I really have looked at why people here feel the way they do, believe me. You can't assume that just because I'm a premie that I haven't gone through as rigorous a critical thought process as you believe you have. Because be honest for a minute Mike... THAT is the excuse most people here use for why people still follow him, i.e., just because they're premies they haven't gone through a rigorous critical thought process. That kind of thinking is arrogant and disrespectful. I think I look at him from all the same angles that you do (for God's sake I've been hanging out here for a while now). But the net of it all is that I still cherish him as my teacher, and love his Knowledge. Perhaps, just perhaps, I'm missing something important in my equation. As somone trying to think critically I must always be open to that possibility. But so Mike must you.
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Date: Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 21:56:18 (EST)
From: Student
Email: None
To: Nil
Subject: Both sides
Message:
Like you, I am a premie that cherishes what Maharaji offers. I haven't posted on this site in months, but I'd like to respond to your comments on critical thinking vs. love.

I crave critical thinking, it's the purpose of my career. I also crave love. I see how love for Maharaji is criticized here and how critical thinking is held up like a vaccine for that 'blind love.' I have to ask myself, if I appreciate the gift of Knowledge, benefit from it, and love the giver, why do I need to analyze his private life? I don't live with Maharaji. I don't wash his clothes, catch him being unfaithful, argue with him, or smell cognac on his breath. Why shouldn't I enjoy Knowledge, enjoy Maharaji's company, and support my teacher in the small ways that I choose to? I don't care how much Maharaji enjoys his posh surroundings. I wish I could give everyone that I love such gifts myself.

Hell, how much is a concert ticket these days for head banging music played by rich entertainers? I hope I never catch myself reserving my love only for the perfect (according to my judgments). My relationship with Maharaji does not require that I approve of his every action. The people on this site keep pointing to ashrams, darshan, and divine proclamations made in the past as evidence that Maharaji has malicious intent. The Hindu culture (according to my tiny bit of knowledge about it) dictates that materialism / capitalism be shunned. That was then, this is now. Maharaji and Knowledge are not about the Hindu culture anymore. No one is asked to 'give up their families or their lives' anymore. If ex-premies want to believe it's just so we can afford to give Maharaji more money, oh well.

They sound like my parents with regards to my romantic love life: What do you see in him? Thing is, Maharaji can't break my heart. He already showed me how to strengthen and empower my own heart. Unlike the account I read from ex-premies' lives, Maharaji gave me independence. Loving his company will never negate that independence.

Sorry Nil, guess I rattled on a bit.
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Date: Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 22:48:56 (EST)
From: Nimrod
Email: None
To: Student
Subject: Both sides
Message:
I have to ask myself, if I appreciate the gift of Knowledge, benefit from it, and love the giver, why do I need to analyze his private life?
Well maybe, if you analysed his private life, you'd find out that the giver you love is really the thief you should fear.
Perhaps then it would be time to start questioning the 'gift'.
Just a thought.
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Date: Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 22:36:22 (EST)
From: Nimrod
Email: None
To: Nil
Subject: Both sides
Message:
(for God's sake I've been hanging out here for a while now).
Then why haven't you learned anything?
Take your time Nil, we're patient.
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Date: Sun, Feb 14, 1999 at 10:55:13 (EST)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: AE & everyone/V-day
Subject: AE re: your website
Message:
Dear AE,

Just read all the ashram threads and went over to the Truth about Maharaji website.

Excellent...but could you post a warning:
'Warning: The contents you are about to read will make you puke your breakfast.' My bagel and coffee were nearly upchucked (but hey the truth ain't always pretty)

Thanks for condensing all the brilliant info on the forum

Everyone:

Have a Happy Valentines' Day. That word 'love' is thrown around a lot. Not sure I know what love is but I know what it is NOT. It is NOT asking someone to give up their values, friends, family, opinions, emotions, pride, and dignity. It is NOT asking people to live a lifestyle (celibacy, no parties, no friends, no drinking) that you yourself cannot live by. And it is NOT ignoring the pain and suffering of those who devoted their lives to you.
Love does not mean abandoning children and spouses for a 'feeling' or abandoning principles and commitments for bliss.
Any 'teacher' Master, Guru, or minister who asks people to do so is a FRAUD, a charleton, and a filthy scummy slimeball. Those of you still following Maharaji need to sincerely question why you would seek a 'high' based on someone very 'LOW'. You are all better than this shit, and you can definitely find something 'higher' in your life than this scumbag.
So on that very heavy note (sorry but this Maharaji trip has alot of heavy implications for all of us)

I wish you all:
a very Happy Valentine's Day
Love
Helen
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Date: Sun, Feb 14, 1999 at 13:54:06 (EST)
From: AE
Email: None
To: Helen
Subject: AE re: your website
Message:
I know what you mean Helen, about throwing up, and it's going to get worse! Maharaji's Homepage will also have some more pages soon with pictures of the Lord posing topless and more words of wisdom from the man.

What Maharaji has to realise now is that we are not naive youths any more but men of the world and women of the world. He fooled people for a long time and now those same people, who were intensly devoted to who they believed was the Lord; those same people are going to turn on him with the ferocity which is in exact ratio to their previous devotion to the (pretend) Lord.

Hey, I don't like being made a fool of. I and many others are very annoyed that we believed him when he said that he was God incarnate. His confidence trick affected that deepest part of me.

Listen now; can you hear that mournful sound coming over the hills tonight? It is the hounds baying for his blood!
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Date: Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 22:14:02 (EST)
From: JW
Email: None
To: AE
Subject: AE re: your website
Message:
AE, your website is very well done. Thank you for the work you put into it. I had to switch to Netscape from Internet Explorer to get it to download for some reason.

I just have one request. Would you remove the parenthetical in the ashram section in which I called Alan Imbarrato an idiot? I never expected that post to be so prominently displayed, and that was an unfair comment. I don't really thing Alan was an idiot. You don't have to remove the name, just the comment. Okay?

Thanks.
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Date: Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 06:52:55 (EST)
From: AE
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: AE re: your website
Message:
Consider it done, JW. I'm glad it's appreciated because it does take time to get all the pages together. I don't understand why Netscape can't read it because my Netscape does although it does look different in Netscape with wider margins etc.
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Date: Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 10:01:03 (EST)
From: JW
Email: None
To: AE
Subject: AE re: your website
Message:
Thanks AE. Actually, for me, it was IE that wouldn't download the site, while Netscape would. I don't know why, but IE also wouldn't work too well for BM's site either, but Netscape works fine.

There is so much information that gets put on this forum and it's very valuable for someone to organize it in a way that is usable to people. You are doing a real 'service' AE:)
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Date: Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 13:55:04 (EST)
From: JW
Email: None
To: AE
Subject: AE and Brian?
Message:
By the way, is Brian making a link from the web site to your site? I think that would be a good idea.
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Date: Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 16:01:03 (EST)
From: AE
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: AE and Brian?
Message:
I haven't mentioned that to Brian yet but I will. I didn't mention this before because of the other part of the site - Maharaji's Homepage, which I thought Brian wouldn't want linked to this site.

Netscape is by far the best browser in my book, IE is a real pain.
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Date: Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 07:49:31 (EST)
From: Happy
Email: None
To: AE
Subject: Your website
Message:
is just wonderful! I wish all premies would read it. I would
change everything.
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Date: Sun, Feb 14, 1999 at 07:57:21 (EST)
From: premieji
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: www.Maharaji.org now open
Message:
Hope you like it folks!
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Date: Sun, Feb 14, 1999 at 10:54:17 (EST)
From: haterji
Email: None
To: premieji
Subject: www.Maharaji.org now open
Message:
we have our own valentines event for premies and those
interested in the truth right here.
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Date: Sun, Feb 14, 1999 at 10:59:23 (EST)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: premieji
Subject: www.Maharaji.org now open
Message:
Did you read the ashram thread below? Your timing is pretty funny.
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Date: Sun, Feb 14, 1999 at 11:06:41 (EST)
From: Anon
Email: None
To: premieji
Subject: www.Maharaji.org now open
Message:
Initial impressions..very slick. Nicely put together..interesting that Maharaji himself has done all the graphics, music etc. Multi talented fellow eh? (not unlike meself!)... Not convinced about the spelling throughout (eg. traveled ...is this an Americanism?)
particularly approved of the link to the BBC Home Service. That does show taste. Also liked the photos of the Masters, although this is obviously a rather controversial lineage, (see JM's website) it is interesting to see a photo of Dayal.
Couldn't be done with all the legal stuff hitting me on arrival. As far as I'm concerened the Net is a free for all. If you put a picture or something on the net, it is up for grabs! I usually press the 'don't agree' button when confronted by this legalise..it's sooo boring. On this occasion however curiosity got the better of me and I plunged in. Got quite a few JavaScript errors using Netscape 3 on a Mac..'xpect those will be cleared up soon. No surprise to see the statistics proudly trumpeted.. look forward to more fun from the perfect Master soon.. Oh yes..he clearly loves his Dad lots..that comes through strongly.. Come to think of it so did I (mine that is). What does HRH stand for when prefixing his dad's name? Is it 'His Royal Highness' or am I imagining things.
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Date: Sun, Feb 14, 1999 at 11:51:36 (EST)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: premieji
Subject: No cut and paste?
Message:
Is that true? If somebody copies something from there and pastes it here, could that cause the end of ex-premie.org? Jim? Brian? JW? Should we proceed with caution in this regard?
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Date: Sun, Feb 14, 1999 at 14:07:45 (EST)
From: JELLY
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: No cut and paste?
Message:
Check out my response to critical thinking yet?
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Date: Sun, Feb 14, 1999 at 16:55:54 (EST)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: JELLY
Subject: No cut and paste?
Message:
A GIFT is something given with no expectation of a return, no strings attached, often a surprise and always free... otherwise it is NOT a gift. It then becomes a business deal, a barter or bribery and corruption.

Jelly, I agree with your appraisals of what a gift is. So, right away you know that Maharaji is trying to get over on you by calling Knowledge a gift. Is this who you want for a master, someone who would make a fool out of you right from the start?

The problem is that if somebody is telling you how wonderful you are and how important you are and how much better everything will be afterwards it becomes extremely hard to remember to analyse. Most people need to be loved and generally will give everything for the promise of love.

Why would you believe them that Knowledge fulfills this promise of love? They've already lied to you about it being a gift. If you want to know what this Knowledge is, and what it's capable of, the techniques are right here on this site. Some exes swear by them. Me? I'm unimpressed. But you decide.

Click here for your very own private Knowledge session.

It is also very hard to be critical when you are introduced to somebody really, really nice.

Yeah, but while they're smiling in your face, they are asking you to bend over backwards before you can have Knowledge, aren't they? How nice are they, really?

Happy Valentine's Day

Same to you, Jelly.
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Date: Sun, Feb 14, 1999 at 12:41:29 (EST)
From: Rick
Email: None
To: premieji
Subject: www.Maharaji.org now open
Message:
What a surprise... unexceptional music with no soul.

Every time I sit down to write something, a reminder comes. Keep it simple.

What, like it's a struggle or something?

Quite a few people wanted to see me as a figurehead. I didn't want to be one and I am not one. A few others saw me as a leader, and I didn't want to be one and I am not one.

What a fucking liar! Guru Maharaj Ji said he was the Lord--that not a leaf on a tree moves without his grace--that he would establish peace in this world.

'If you like what is given, practice it; if not, leave it.' This statement, to me, is simple, yet profound and has been echoed since the time of my Father.

I wonder who echoed 'If you leave knowledge, it is like having two tons of rotting vegetables at your door.'

In 1971, during my summer vacation, I came to the West, arriving at London's Heathrow with barely £25 in my pocket.

Hahahahahahaha. That's rich.

I can't read anymore of this creep's site right now. I'm getting sick. I'll have to come back later to it. What a fucking fraud and idiot!
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Date: Sun, Feb 14, 1999 at 13:00:30 (EST)
From: ham
Email: None
To: Rick
Subject: www.Maharaji.org now open
Message:
THE ultimate hallmark powder puff site, with poetry full of 'rhythm', just can't imagine what he's like to shag.

The quality statistics with full detailed background info (ha ha). Bar graphs designed to con the naive.

Do I detect the hint of a perfect master lineage still leaking through!

The quotes seem to be even shallower and meaningless than before, and I didn't think that was possible.

Visuals are the only decent thing there, although unbelievably slow. If that's the best he can do then he's in a sorry state.
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Date: Sun, Feb 14, 1999 at 13:30:20 (EST)
From: little Brother
Email: None
To: premieji
Subject: www.Maharaji.org now open
Message:
Hey! Why can't you access without accepting 'cookies'? 'Cookies' give me the creeps.

What sayeth thee 'premieji'?
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Date: Sun, Feb 14, 1999 at 15:06:52 (EST)
From: gerry the terrible
Email: None
To: little Brother
Subject: www.Maharaji.org now open
Message:
Hey, hey, Little Brother! Read my ''Gay Sex'' to spill your cookies.
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Date: Sun, Feb 14, 1999 at 17:43:30 (EST)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: little Brother
Subject: M's goofy statistics
Message:
Something interesting:

Given that the BM HIMSELF says he had about 470,000 entries to his videos in 1998, that means about 40,000 per month,
premies coming 5 time a month (that's a minimum)
means he has 8,000 premies on the planet!

Where did I goof?
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Date: Sun, Feb 14, 1999 at 17:53:47 (EST)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: I goofed: 50,000 premies
Message:
470,000 average monthly entries
means he has about 50,000 active premies, more or less.

He also been claiming he gave k to more than 10,000 aspirants per year..... where are all these people ?
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Date: Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 03:02:54 (EST)
From: Jethro
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Jm -it was a dream
Message:
'He also been claiming he gave k to more than 10,000 aspirants per year..... where are all these people ?'

Eeeeer..well...it actually was dream..and if The Lord himself has dream it must be the truth.

I just glanced thru his terms and conditions on his web site and he says that he reserves the rite change any submissions and publish what he wants. In other words if someone sends an email the it can be changed to suit him. Well, one thing I'll say for him, he's consistant in his arrogance.

(Of sourse if the Lord says green is blue then green is blue. )Sounds like a good manifestation of the prem rowatt ego.

I also paid a visit to 'enjoying-life' and noticed that there is 'conversations' button anymore. Now that he has his own site, I suppose premies won't even be allowed to have conversations.

regards Jethro

For any followers of Prem, I promise you you there is life beyond prempal...and it is beyond your wildest dreams. Get real 'cause you're wastimg time.
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Date: Sun, Feb 14, 1999 at 13:53:17 (EST)
From: JELLY
Email: None
To: premieji
Subject: www.Maharaji.org now open
Message:
Haa, heee, heee, heee, haaa, ho, hooo, hooo, hoo, hah, hee, ooohhh,hee, ha, ha, ha!
Am I missing something? It has taken me more than a week of surfing this site and I'm not even half done yet and that's without going to all the links. Maharaji's orgy has taken me less than half an hour (mostly in waiting for inane pictures) and I've been multi-tasking as well.
Why, I ask with tears in my eyes, would I want a link to BBC, CNN or a world weather report?????
Is this man on drugs?
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Date: Sun, Feb 14, 1999 at 15:27:01 (EST)
From: rich2
Email: rich2@globalnet.co.uk
To: premieji
Subject: www.Maharaji.org now open
Message:
Dear Premieji,

Is this site supposed to remove all our fears and paranoia about M. This is the ultimate control freaks site, I have agreed to lesser terms and conditions signing up for American Express for Christ's sake.

I always felt that the big difference between books and the internet was interaction. This web site should be in the reference section of the city library marked 'not to be removed from the premises'.

And talk about cookie central, I've seen sex sites with less cookies.

Try again Premieji.

regards

Richard
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Date: Sun, Feb 14, 1999 at 15:30:05 (EST)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: premieji
Subject: www.Maharaji.org now open
Message:
Sorry,

that previous message should have been signed as from Richard, that's me. But I was so shook-up by M's cooooooool web site that I forgot. What a horror!!!!!!!!!!!

regards

Richard
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Date: Sat, Feb 13, 1999 at 18:39:11 (EST)
From: larkin
Email: larkin@redcrow.demon.co.uk
To: Everyone
Subject: Valentine's Day : Scumbag
Message:
my lord is like a red, red wine
so rich, and often drunk
as cuddly as a porcupine
as fragrant as a skunk
as distant as the milky way
much better viewed from far away
and as for those wise words you say
i've never heard such bunk.

my lord is like a panto queen
so cute in krishna crown
who waves a flute he cannot toot
and capers like a clown
but when he wiggles, heaven's above,
our souls cry out: we're all yours, guv,
just take us in the name of love!
you've won this round, hands down.

my lord is like a spoiled brat
who never once knew hardship
who's charity's an enterprise
and I don't mean the starship
whose dupes that follow in his way
will all sign up to work all day
receive no thanks, nor even pay
to serve his perfect lardship

my lord is like a violin
but wider round the middle
whose same old tune's a vile din
the whole damn cult's a fiddle
if shit were brains, with your IQ
you'd never need to use the loo
the one gold-plated just for you
except, perhaps, to widdle.
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Date: Sun, Feb 14, 1999 at 10:29:17 (EST)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: larkin
Subject: Valentine's Day : Scumbag
Message:
Bravo, bravo! You are a wonderfully wicked poet
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Date: Sat, Feb 13, 1999 at 16:34:09 (EST)
From: Larry Flynt
Email: invisible gardener@all
To: Everyone
Subject: Valentine's Day/Monica's Tale
Message:
Monica began as Raja Ji and Claudia's servant. She was a new premie,beautiful and 18, and live-in staff at the Sheridan Road residence in Miami . Maharaji was entering his''Krishna' period where he was entertaining having relations with many of his 'milkmaids'. (Yes Bill. Claudia was one, and Navlata's true parentage is up in the air).Marolyn approached Monica to solicit her invovement in a 3 way with Maharaji. This arrangement occured twice. Maharaji seemed to be smitten with Monica , so from that date on ,they saw each other without Marolyn. Maharaji was sexually active with numerous other female staff and devotees during this 1980's period. Then Marolyn,perhaps in the spirit of things, began an affair with Alan, her chauffeur. Maharaji FREAKED. Wanted to quit. Experienced jealousy, rage, confusion, etc.While Maharaji consulted marriage counselors, etc, the Perfect Master business continued unabated.Claudia sued Maharaji for 'breach of promise.'
Monica and Maharaji have maintained an ongoing 20 year relationship.Specifics include 3 to 4 calls a day when they are apart,terminated pregnancies,sleeping together onsite at a Tierra program in Argentina, Monica remaining open enough to allow Maharaji his occasional 'road' affair, Maharaji's(repeated) promises to leave the 'game' and move in with her, Marolyn's anger and threats to leave, ( Maharaji countered with the fact that if she did, he'd make sure she never saw her children again). This onoing duplicity is not really public knowledge,but is known by the staff and children . This will explain the steady rotation of staff, also some of the well-documented tales of drinking and public dysfunctional behavior by both parents and some genuine adjustment experiences for the children.Monica has always been 'kept' in a well-appointed home near the various Residences, so that they may spend time alone. Marolyn as well has had other affairs with premies and exes, though not since the aneurism,( which briefly brought Maharaji back into his more traditional role as father and husband).However, since recovery, things have returned to normal for the Master.Monica and he are always together on the Program tours.

Knowledge
and 'This Experience',
of course,
remain beautiful.

Maharaji has threaten to kill anyone who goes public with this information. One of Marolyn's ex-lovers has sold me the above story .I, Larry Flynt am not afraid of him, or for that matter, the Republicans.Or the chronically disempowered.
They can all kiss my two faced ass with theirs.

I will not respond to the above until the April expose is printed.
Questions can be submitted to my Attorney, Alan Dare-show-wits.
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Date: Sat, Feb 13, 1999 at 17:29:07 (EST)
From: Anonymous
Email: None
To: Larry Flynt
Subject: say WHAT????
Message:
Maharaji FREAKED. Wanted to
quit. Experienced jealousy, rage, confusion, etc.While Maharaji consulted
marriage counselors, etc, the Perfect Master business continued
unabated.Claudia sued Maharaji for 'breach of promise.'


Wanted to quit being married? Being God? quit what? Claudia sued him? Are the records public? Can Jim get them? Breach of which promise? Did they see non premie marraige counselors? How bizarre.
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Date: Sat, Feb 13, 1999 at 18:01:39 (EST)
From: dv
Email: None
To: Larry Flynt
Subject: Valentine's Day/Monica's Tale
Message:
Nice post, LF. This is what I wait for on this site- the hard stuff. I did security at R's house on Sheridan, but never met Monica. She probably arrived after I left. I remember Petra.

Can you elaborate more on Claudia's breach of promise? Did she win?

April expose?
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Date: Sat, Feb 13, 1999 at 18:08:27 (EST)
From: chr
Email: None
To: Larry Flynt
Subject: Valentine's Day/Monica's Tale
Message:
Is this stuff real? Is it a fictional part of the nighty chronicles? Are you just playing a valentines joke and trying to make it clear you're not serious by using LF as a name? If it is true is there some way of verifying it all? When I was periodically around M in the late 70s early 80s,I was not aware of any affairs etc.Even the guys who were right with M never mentioned it-and they were not afraid to talk about other things such as the drinking,toilet slats etc. Did this occur after 82? I think its really important to be clear-innuendo and rumour don't help the cause of debunking M, facts do. I also did security at Raja ji's-although not enough to really know what was going on.We had a chat one day about how his and M's children were too spoilt. I always felt more comfortable around him than M.
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Date: Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 10:23:51 (EST)
From: JW
Email: None
To: chr
Subject: Valentine's Day/Monica's Tale
Message:
I have heard this story, more or less, from several sources, all of whom are people I trust. There are a few new details, like I never heard about the death threat, for example and I never put any credence into M being Navi's father. If the death threat is true, I can see why the people I have heard this story from want to remain anonymous. Also, they are people who are still close, at least geographically to the lord and PAMs.

But I am intrigued by the statement that something is about to be published. Is this true, or is that a joke?

Again, I think Maharaji's affairs and drinking are common knowledge among the premies -- part of the reason we never get premies denying these things on the forum. I just think premies know all the details that Larry here is telling us.
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Date: Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 10:25:50 (EST)
From: JW
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: Sorry
Message:
That should be: I just think premies DON'T know all the details Larry is telling us.
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Date: Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 11:41:58 (EST)
From: Happy
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: Most premies don't know
Message:
I think - maybe they've heard rumors, but do not take them seriously. The truth about Monica Lewis ski - and all the rest - will bring him down. If Larry Flint can substantiate this information, I really think he's had it.
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Date: Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 12:11:07 (EST)
From: g's mom
Email: None
To: Happy
Subject: Nah, I do not think this will
Message:
do him in. He has such a perfect game going on and after all, he is the master of this game (scam). Any doubts, inconsistancies, wierd behavior on his part can be attributed to Lila, your mind, a test of your devotion. I am certain he could take to the most heinous acts on the stage and the most programmed and devoted would say, this is just a test of our devotion. Look at Jim Jones or the Heaven's gate, it is the same phenomenon of the cult being the ultimate scam. Some premies are so well indoctrinated that NOTHING no matter how terrible, will sway them, in fact the terible things serve to isolate them and almost bolster their faith. The perfect scam, a pathetic sad cruel scam.
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Date: Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 12:34:11 (EST)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: g's mom
Subject: Nah, I do not think this will
Message:
I agree with you

BUT

for exes like me, finally accepting all these facts has proved extremely helpful.

It's like bringing all the pieces of the jigsaw puzzle together, and explaining so many details we know here and there and couldn't make sense separately.

I also knew lots of details myself because I've been close to some PAM and seen some games around him a few times, and the more I know of all these stuff, the more sense the whole game makes.

And I guess it will be the same thing for many exes in the future if they can know about all this.

AND, the more of this stuff will become public, the more will come. Look at what happened here since this forum is active ....
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Date: Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 12:49:04 (EST)
From: Happy
Email: None
To: g's mom
Subject: It'll help
Message:
Well, I agree with you that there always will be some fanatics
who'll accept anything as lila. But there must be a few with a little bit common sense left, who weren't aware of all these things coming into light now, and who'll re-evaluate Prem Pal in this light. I think these are really important times,
and it will be very, very difficult for Prem Pal to counter this.
Therefore, it's important not to let go of the grip now, but to get more out, and to substantiate stories as much as possible.
Premies do read ex-premie.org with great interest, I'm sure.
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Date: Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 17:03:58 (EST)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Happy
Subject: I told you Prempal!
Message:
You stupid, you knew this was a trap, and now you're in it...

I think you're suicidal, Cognac was not enough for you, and it blurred your mind totally. Did you ever heard that when you drink your mind doesn't work properly?

Now you've made the worst mistakes, and your pissed ex-premies won't leave you alone.

What will be your next stupid thing?

I hope you're not going to take my friends with you, leave them where they are, and wish them all the best for their lives.

Quit guruing, that's the best thing you can do.

And send me my money back ....
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Date: Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 18:19:41 (EST)
From: The Ringwraith
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Go home!
Message:
Go back to your dark place Golum. Back... back to the cold friendly darkness where your eyes are not offended by the light. Go there and find your precious which now has such power over you... yes Golum, you and your precious are almost ONE. Go ahead and finish your task Golum and it will be yours foreverrrrrrrr.... hah, hah, hah, hah, hah, hah!
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Date: Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 19:28:05 (EST)
From: Jethro
Email: None
To: The Ringwraith
Subject: Golem not Golum
Message:
I presume you mean Golem and not Golum. In case you don't know the Golems did a great service of protection.

Excreta taurus cerebum wincket.
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Date: Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 23:56:33 (EST)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: The Ringwraith
Subject: Go home!
Message:
As your mail was directed to J-M, I assume you are a premie, in which case you should know that the Ringwraith was a servant of the Dark Lord.
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Date: Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 22:22:56 (EST)
From: Gail
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: I told you Prempal!
Message:
Jean-Michel said it all. Ditto!
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Date: Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 06:19:37 (EST)
From: chr
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: Valentine's Day/Monica's Tale
Message:
Hi JW,
I've still got problems with this one. I heard all sorts of things about M too and saw a few as well. I got to the point where I only believed and trusted what I saw and knew myself.There were many ridiculous stories and cosmic fairytales about M manifesting or doing this or that miraculous thing with some premie.Some of these were told to me by PAMS.I shared a room with Jagdeo for a couple of months at one stage and according to him M came to 'visit' him nearly every night. During the day all he did was watch T.V , play tennis ,spend money and be waited on hand and foot.There was so much bullshit around that I wonder if some of this stuff is a bit the same but on the other side of the coin, so to speak.Admittedly most of my contact was at the end of a driveway or at an airport, but at least from 79 to 81 much of M's time that I saw was spent with his family.They actually did a lot together.Most of the time there were the same faces directly around him and he certainly wasn't having affairs with any of them-He was doing a very good cover up job if he was having affairs at this time.There were parties with drink and dope and Ms sexual and anal jokes were well known .PAMS talked about lots of things-M going to stripclubs with them,drinking,eating hamburgers etc-but not affairs.By 82 I was back to being a regular ashram premie.I was doing secutity backstage in 82 or 83 and I was told that M and Marolyn were having marital problems.In 82 she went with M to most places he toured, but I noticed after this that M was usually without the family.The last time I had anything remotely to do around him was in 86 when he had those silly dinners. By that time I was on my way out, but I was still asked to do security backstage.M kept ducking out from the dinner to have a cigarette.There was no sign of the family at all and most of the Pams I knew were gone except for Dettmers who never spoke to me anyway.I'm starting to ramble but all of the above could suggest affairs etc but there doesnt seem to be anything definite.Anybody could have put Larry Flynts thing together just from stuff thats been posted here from time to time.I want M exposed as much as anybody-but I want it to be an honest exposure.
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Date: Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 14:01:40 (EST)
From: Marshall
Email: None
To: chr
Subject: Valentine's Day/Monica's Tale
Message:
chr,
I just want to say that I apprecciate your contributions here. It really helps me to hear the things you describe, even if they are second hand or rumours since very often rumours are based in truths. The thought of gmj eating a hamburger in a stripclub is pretty funny. Obviously mj doesn't seem the type to sit around meditating or even like someone who would enjoy a good hike in the woods. He's a fatcat with his lazy boy recliner, remote controls, haagen daas, cognac, hash and god only knows what all.
By the way are you the same person who talked about the giant warehouses full of gifts that were donated, I thought that was very interesting.
Any more stories?
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Date: Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 03:52:26 (EST)
From: chr
Email: None
To: Marshall
Subject: Valentine's Day/Monica's Tale
Message:
Hi Marshall,
I was actually trying to say(perhaps not clearly) that the stuff posted by' Larry Flynt ' may not be quite factual Then again if I was married at 16 I'd probably start roaming too and wondering what I'd missed out on..
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Date: Sat, Feb 13, 1999 at 18:57:28 (EST)
From: nigel
Email: nigel@redcrwo.demon.co.uk
To: Larry Flynt
Subject: Come back Jim, it's happening!
Message:
Larry,

Thanks.

Claudia sued Maharaji for 'breach of promise.'

Are court proceedings on public record in the States, as they are in the UK?
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Date: Sat, Feb 13, 1999 at 20:56:24 (EST)
From: Gail
Email: None
To: nigel
Subject: Who is Larry Flynt? (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Sat, Feb 13, 1999 at 21:10:02 (EST)
From: Zac
Email: None
To: Gail
Subject: Ask him Gail
Message:
He left his email address.
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Date: Sat, Feb 13, 1999 at 21:56:56 (EST)
From: VP
Email: None
To: Gail
Subject: Who is Larry Flynt? (nt)
Message:
Larry Flynt is a pornographic publishing mogul here in the United States. He publishes Hustler magazine. He is also a staunch Clinton supporter.

Before the impeachment hearings, Mr. Flynt offered a huge sum of money to anyone who could produce proof that a member of the senate judiciary committee had committed a sexual indescretion. He said he was out to expose all of the hypocrites on capital hill. Mr. Flynt hired investigators to check out all serious leads. As a result of his querry, at least one member of congress was exposed as having an extra-marital affair. He chose to resign his position.

Larry also wrote a letter to Kenneth Starr offering him a position at Hustler Magazine. He told Mr. Starr that he had single handedly done more to bring pornography to the American public than Hustler Magazine had been able to do since it's inception.

I guess this poster considers himself/herself to be a whistle blower. Hey, 'Larry', is this information for real?
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Date: Sat, Feb 13, 1999 at 22:10:04 (EST)
From: Zac
Email: None
To: Alan Dare-show-wits,
Subject: When will the April Expose
Message:
be printed? 'Maharaji FREAKED. Wanted to quit.' Spreading peace to the world I assume. So he plays on Marolyn's guilt to get her to stop fucking! He's really just big baby isn't he? Reminds
me of a story. Second hand but reliable. A PAM is standing with Maharaji when Marolyn walks by, the PAM looks her up and down, Maharaji gets pissed and turns to the premie and say's, 'What do you want to do? Fuck her?' The story did not make sense til now.
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Date: Sat, Feb 13, 1999 at 22:32:37 (EST)
From: bill
Email: None
To: Zac
Subject: Sounds true to me.
Message:
Larry flynt is probably the malibu mole.
Coming clean more and more.
Thank you very much Mole Man.

I was at raja's house in the hallway next to thier bedroom
when a sister invited me into raja and claudias bedroom to
show me a picture that showed claudia and prem rawart(gmj)
hugging for the camera and the sister was showing me the
picture to bolster her story to me about how claudia and
the lord almighty were having an affair and that navlata
was actually prem rawats(gmj) kid.
I heard similar stories from other 'sisters'.
I have dna samples of prem rawat and I am sending some
to various people. Someone with one strand of navlata's hair
can help make the match.

I was at claudias house in connecticut working on the basement
suite that was for prem rawat (gmj) when he would come to visit.
claudia got a phone call from the lord while I was there and
she was pissed and so was prem. He wanted her to go back with
raja ji and she didnt want to because of all the affairs
raja ji was having. And perhaps other reasons I wasnt told about.
prem rawat(gmj) told her during that conversation that if
she didnt he was going to cut her off financially.

On both occasions I was numb and unable to respond or
even process the input.
She moved to conn because prem rawart(the lord) had said he
was going to move to bedford hills new york a few miles away.
Instead, he tried to move to palm beach but opted for
malibu again instead.
raja ji ended up moving into the rooms in the basement that
we fixed up for the lord.
Claudia smoked pot with two very nice gay guys from manhatten.
They both died of aids.
Lucky me, I was not gay and would very courtiously decline
all the invitations I got from other guys all these years
and it turned out that a whole lot of them
were HIV positive and didnt know it. Too bad, Good people.
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Date: Sat, Feb 13, 1999 at 22:49:27 (EST)
From: bill
Email: None
To: bill
Subject: Sounds true to me.
Message:
I also heard from a lot of folks in miami that Marolyn
was/had an affair with the driver. good looking guy, built,
from tampa or nearby there. He used to go to parties in his
hometown and get naked and walk around. Perhaps a mushroom
thing, as is popular in some parts of florida.
I heard prem rawat (the ultimate ruler), reacted strongly
and also said 'I never want to see you again' or some other
ultimate lord condemnation to the guy. the qoute was the one
I heard.

The guy would drive the motor home. They would go to that
so called 'ranch' where the kids would ride their horses.
Kids would ride, and in the motor home ther was riding going on
as well.

I must say, I saw Marolyn one day riding her bike along the
hospital wall near her house, and the sun was setting on the bay,
and I turned around and she was 10 feet away and she smiled
and really, she was absolutely beautiful.

The main gay floral guy (who was a queen style out front
gay-very funny and charming-) told me that marolyn would
leave prem rawat if it wasnt for the money.
I was taken aback as usual when faced with all this sort of info.
But the programming was strong, youknow that.

One part of prem rawat was actually sincere in his delusion.
He did believe he was all that sometimes. He was
probably wierded out that life was not backing up his
own guru programming and he used his rage to mask his fear,
and also because it worked so well at keeping everyone in
his domination trip which he absolutely power tripped on.
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Date: Sat, Feb 13, 1999 at 23:03:28 (EST)
From: bill
Email: None
To: bill
Subject: Sounds true to me.
Message:
I also heard the story that prem rawat(the supremest power in
person) told his wife that if she left him -she would
not get to see the kids.

I heard this one.

prem rawat was in the miami home with marolyn and she
was really distraugh and said
'I am going to leave you'
and he went at her swinging and hit her more than once and
said something that I cant recall. basically I remember that
it was along the line of 'no you wont' but I cant say for sure
unless I get a clear memory on the wording.

I sure didnt go seeking all the stuff that came my way
like this. People would blurt out the latest stuff that
they knew and sometimes it was these kinds of things.
Who the hell would make it up amongst the crowd I knew?
NO one would dare!
We ALL were in strong belief that it was lila beyond our
capacity to judge.
Shocking although the many reports were, we just accepted
them as some lesson.

One thing AE needs is the '4 stages of what happens to a
human being when a perfect master yells at a person'
It was printed in divine times. You missed it?
Maybe you didnt but see what your brain does when confronted
with stuff like that? The belief just patches over any
rips in your brain that you left at the door with your
shoes at the satsang hall.
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Date: Sun, Feb 14, 1999 at 01:47:43 (EST)
From: Runamok
Email: None
To: bill
Subject: Sounds true to Bill
Message:
Sounds like you have just enough first-hand dirt to go to the media if you want to.
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Date: Sun, Feb 14, 1999 at 01:53:05 (EST)
From: cp
Email: None
To: flynt/RT?
Subject: believable- any old posts?
Message:
This is good. I remember Monicas name coming up before- but I always thought it was some kind of parable or a code the forum used to indicate M's indiscretions.
Can the old posts from this guy or his address be listed here- like the ones lower down about David Smith?
Is he the one that mentioned Monicas name a few times over the past few mo? Does he seem media savvyish?

Also I havent been keeping up with the Clinton business. I wonder if they have spoken about the places she has lived.
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Date: Sun, Feb 14, 1999 at 09:06:44 (EST)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: cp
Subject: 2 Monicas
Message:
(sort of like '3 MarLenas':)

Anyway, FYI, in case anyone doesn't know (and it IS confusing):

There are 2 Monicas that are talked about on the forum:
1. the famous Monica Lewinsky who was Bill Clinton's intern. Nothing to do with M as far as I know.
2. the not-so-famous Monica Lewis, who is M's personal photographer.
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Date: Sun, Feb 14, 1999 at 02:29:18 (EST)
From: chr
Email: None
To: bill
Subject: Sounds true to me.
Message:
A lot of people used to think that Marolyn was beautiful.At one point I hadnt seen her for a year or so(after M dispensed with the 707) .Anyway, the ashrams had folded and I was called back to do some backstage security and I couldnt believe how haggard she was looking.She seemed to have aged years in only 18 months. So maybe this was at the time when all the affairs were supposedly going on.I asked one of the pams I knew what was going on and she just rolled her eyes slightly and said that a lot was happening,and left it at that.
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Date: Sun, Feb 14, 1999 at 11:04:15 (EST)
From: bill
Email: None
To: chr
Subject: Sounds true to me.
Message:
When I saw her it was right at the time of her driverman
friend days.
It was just a woman smiling in the sun that really
made that moment.
And the fact that I was only going in premie world circles
and no sister was giving out smiles without some reservation
in those days.
Smile starved, it had a bigger impact than a normal person
would have experienced perhaps.
Can you imagine what a joy it must be to have him at the house
now with all the kids having to put up with him and his
domination trip right now that he is house bound and premies
are not up to do 'service'.

Fine, he is off touring a lot, now that he is home, the
boys must be wanting to move out.
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Date: Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 02:31:16 (EST)
From: chr
Email: None
To: bill
Subject: Sounds true to me.
Message:
Hi Bill
I'm trying to get a handle on when exactly this all happened.The last time I had anything to do with Raja ji was mid 81 and he and Claudia were together then.When I saw Marolyn backstage would have been 84,I think or maybe late 83. After 1980,most of the security I did involved the plane and backstage with some residence work,although not in Miami,so if this all happened after 80/81 I probably wasn't aware of it..
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Date: Sun, Feb 14, 1999 at 13:14:06 (EST)
From: The Real RT speaks
Email: ommm
To: Larry Skin Flynt
Subject: I am not a corroberator!
Message:
OOH, Someone wrote an untruth:

'I will not respond to the above until the April expose is printed. Questions can be submitted to my Attorney, Alan Dare-show-wits, or the coroberator, RT.'

Hi:

I have had NO web access in 3 weeks due to travel for job. I am the Author of Bored of the Yuga Verse and other funny words, not THESE Monical tails. I don't..due gossip! Keep my WHOLLY NAME-sake out of this for the love of ...uh,.. Conscioussness!

RT
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Date: Sun, Feb 14, 1999 at 16:14:25 (EST)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: The Real RT speaks
Subject: I am not a corroberator!
Message:
OK, we'll take your name off of it. Sheesh! Glad I checked.
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Date: Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 06:05:09 (EST)
From: Happy
Email: None
To: Larry Flynt
Subject: April joke?
Message:
Dear Mr. Larry Flynt,
I sincerely do hope that your story was no April joke - that would be reeaally mean! Can't wait 'til your April exposure.
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