Ex-Premie.Org

Forum III Archive # 39

From: Feb 19, 1999

To: Mar 1, 1999

Page: 5 Of: 5



Jim -:- Maharaji's poetry -:- Sat, Feb 20, 1999 at 17:38:15 (EST)
__Tacky Romance Noevlist -:- Maharaji's poetry -:- Sat, Feb 20, 1999 at 18:34:21 (EST)
____Raunchy Porn Writer -:- Maharaji's poetry -:- Sun, Feb 21, 1999 at 14:38:13 (EST)
______In Simplicity -:- I ask this question -:- Sun, Feb 21, 1999 at 23:34:24 (EST)
________Snuff Film Director -:- I ask this question -:- Mon, Feb 22, 1999 at 04:20:43 (EST)
__Brian -:- Hark, The Lark - Alas, The Ass -:- Sat, Feb 20, 1999 at 18:34:44 (EST)
__red heart -:- sweeten your words -:- Sat, Feb 20, 1999 at 19:08:16 (EST)
____brown bowels -:- excreting YOUR words... -:- Sat, Feb 20, 1999 at 22:59:29 (EST)
__Mickey the Pharisee -:- Maharaji's poetry -:- Sat, Feb 20, 1999 at 21:14:26 (EST)
__patrick -:- Maharaji's poetry -:- Sun, Feb 21, 1999 at 03:44:50 (EST)
____Jim -:- Honestly? -:- Sun, Feb 21, 1999 at 23:27:55 (EST)

Denise -:- Thank you for the support -:- Sat, Feb 20, 1999 at 13:43:24 (EST)
__Jim -:- Thank you for the support -:- Sat, Feb 20, 1999 at 13:55:42 (EST)
__JW -:- The Guru Papers -:- Sat, Feb 20, 1999 at 14:20:19 (EST)
____Scott T. -:- The Guru Papers -:- Sun, Feb 21, 1999 at 00:50:02 (EST)
__CD -:- viewpoints and answers -:- Sat, Feb 20, 1999 at 16:29:27 (EST)
____Stevei -:- Thanks -:- Sat, Feb 20, 1999 at 17:17:10 (EST)
____Denise -:- viewpoints and answers -:- Sat, Feb 20, 1999 at 17:18:14 (EST)
______Stevei -:- HTML -:- Sat, Feb 20, 1999 at 17:39:09 (EST)
______Bobby -:- viewpoints and answers -:- Sat, Feb 20, 1999 at 18:05:32 (EST)
______CD -:- HTML - off topic -:- Sat, Feb 20, 1999 at 18:13:58 (EST)
______Sir David -:- viewpoints and answers -:- Sat, Feb 20, 1999 at 20:11:33 (EST)
__chr -:- Thank you for the support -:- Sat, Feb 20, 1999 at 17:41:09 (EST)
____Denise -:- Thank you for the support -:- Sat, Feb 20, 1999 at 19:20:06 (EST)
______chr -:- Thank you for the support -:- Sat, Feb 20, 1999 at 20:36:20 (EST)
______Robert -:- Thank you for the support -:- Sun, Feb 21, 1999 at 05:09:35 (EST)
______tj -:- Thank you for the support -:- Sun, Feb 21, 1999 at 17:01:34 (EST)
________Denise -:- Thank you for the support -:- Sun, Feb 21, 1999 at 17:36:47 (EST)
__________gerry -:- Thank you for the support -:- Sun, Feb 21, 1999 at 17:49:02 (EST)
__________Jim -:- This is the hard part, Denise -:- Sun, Feb 21, 1999 at 23:42:54 (EST)
____________Rick -:- This is the hard part, Denise -:- Mon, Feb 22, 1999 at 11:01:30 (EST)
____________g's mom -:- Jim's hard part.. -:- Mon, Feb 22, 1999 at 11:59:10 (EST)
______________Jerry -:- Force of life -:- Mon, Feb 22, 1999 at 14:02:46 (EST)
________________g's mom -:- did I write that? -:- Mon, Feb 22, 1999 at 15:29:08 (EST)
__________________Jerry -:- did I write that? -:- Mon, Feb 22, 1999 at 16:11:04 (EST)
____________________Diz -:- keeping the baby, again -:- Mon, Feb 22, 1999 at 21:18:07 (EST)
______________Helen -:- Bravo -:- Mon, Feb 22, 1999 at 21:59:14 (EST)
________ham -:- Thank you for the support -:- Sun, Feb 21, 1999 at 18:41:02 (EST)
__________Nil -:- Thank you for the support -:- Mon, Feb 22, 1999 at 14:36:09 (EST)
____________Nimrod -:- Thank you for the support -:- Mon, Feb 22, 1999 at 16:22:31 (EST)
______________Nil -:- Nimrod, you're an asshole!! -:- Mon, Feb 22, 1999 at 19:33:47 (EST)
________________JHB -:- Nimrod, you're an asshole!! -:- Mon, Feb 22, 1999 at 19:44:32 (EST)
__________________Nil -:- Nimrod, you're an asshole!! -:- Mon, Feb 22, 1999 at 20:04:50 (EST)
____________________JHB -:- You're not my father! -:- Mon, Feb 22, 1999 at 20:23:01 (EST)
____________________Gail -:- Nimrod, isn't an asshole!! -:- Mon, Feb 22, 1999 at 22:24:42 (EST)
________________Nimrod -:- Nil, you're a nazi pwick!! -:- Tues, Feb 23, 1999 at 01:11:11 (EST)
____________ham -:- Thank you nilnil -:- Mon, Feb 22, 1999 at 19:10:10 (EST)
______________JHB -:- Thank you nilnil -:- Mon, Feb 22, 1999 at 19:31:36 (EST)
________________ham -:- jhb -:- Tues, Feb 23, 1999 at 18:31:22 (EST)
______________Nil -:- Thank you nilnil -:- Mon, Feb 22, 1999 at 19:56:48 (EST)
________________JHB -:- Thank you nilnil -:- Mon, Feb 22, 1999 at 20:34:15 (EST)
________JHB -:- Thank you for the support -:- Sun, Feb 21, 1999 at 21:46:50 (EST)
________Jim -:- That's not the way I see it -:- Sun, Feb 21, 1999 at 23:48:23 (EST)
__Helen -:- Thank you for the support -:- Sat, Feb 20, 1999 at 18:13:21 (EST)
____Dorothy -:- Thank you, Glinda -:- Sat, Feb 20, 1999 at 21:51:26 (EST)
______Helen -:- Thank you, Glinda -:- Sun, Feb 21, 1999 at 02:11:52 (EST)
____Sir David -:- Thank you for the support -:- Sun, Feb 21, 1999 at 14:25:45 (EST)
______Helen -:- Thank you for the support -:- Sun, Feb 21, 1999 at 19:05:06 (EST)
__HALIP -:- Thank you for the support -:- Sun, Feb 21, 1999 at 18:54:13 (EST)

Jean-Michel -:- Guru Puja magazine auction! -:- Sat, Feb 20, 1999 at 06:17:14 (EST)
__bill -:- Guru Puja magazine auction! -:- Mon, Feb 22, 1999 at 23:12:45 (EST)

Rev John Hammond-Smyth -:- And every eye shall see him -:- Sat, Feb 20, 1999 at 00:13:25 (EST)
__ex-ex -:- And every eye shall see him -:- Sat, Feb 20, 1999 at 07:53:00 (EST)
____Rev John Hammond-Smyth -:- And every eye shall see him -:- Sat, Feb 20, 1999 at 08:35:38 (EST)
____JW -:- And every eye shall see him -:- Sat, Feb 20, 1999 at 14:00:08 (EST)
______CD -:- discover your own answers -:- Sat, Feb 20, 1999 at 16:42:59 (EST)
________Rick -:- discover your own answers -:- Sat, Feb 20, 1999 at 18:04:01 (EST)
__________CD -:- discover your own answers -:- Sat, Feb 20, 1999 at 18:22:39 (EST)
____________Jim -:- Oh no -:- Sat, Feb 20, 1999 at 18:28:51 (EST)
______________CD -:- Oh no -:- Sat, Feb 20, 1999 at 19:00:16 (EST)
________________Jim -:- Really? -:- Sat, Feb 20, 1999 at 19:32:11 (EST)
__________________Dad -:- Don't make me come back there! -:- Sat, Feb 20, 1999 at 21:02:46 (EST)
____________________Youngest in the back seat -:- Aw, come on, Dad! -:- Sat, Feb 20, 1999 at 23:15:44 (EST)
______________________Snotty teenage sister -:- Aw, come on, Dad! -:- Sun, Feb 21, 1999 at 02:16:14 (EST)
__________Jethro -:- discover your own answers -:- Sun, Feb 21, 1999 at 02:22:53 (EST)
________Scott T. -:- discover your own answers -:- Sat, Feb 20, 1999 at 20:45:01 (EST)
__________CD -:- discover your own answers -:- Sat, Feb 20, 1999 at 21:45:50 (EST)
____________Scott T. -:- discover your own answers -:- Sun, Feb 21, 1999 at 00:19:44 (EST)
______________CD -:- discover your own answers -:- Sun, Feb 21, 1999 at 16:22:18 (EST)
________JW -:- I Think I Did -:- Sun, Feb 21, 1999 at 20:22:39 (EST)
____Scott T. -:- And every eye shall see him -:- Sat, Feb 20, 1999 at 20:41:24 (EST)

Jim -:- Fuck!! -:- Fri, Feb 19, 1999 at 21:50:21 (EST)
__Jim -:- Prempals -:- Fri, Feb 19, 1999 at 22:23:16 (EST)
____Passing thru -:- Jimpals -:- Fri, Feb 19, 1999 at 23:16:00 (EST)
______Guru Maharaji -:- Spreading the cheer -:- Fri, Feb 19, 1999 at 23:39:19 (EST)
________Denise -:- Spreading the cheer -:- Sat, Feb 20, 1999 at 09:06:23 (EST)
__________Gail -:- Spreading the cheer -:- Sun, Feb 21, 1999 at 20:41:42 (EST)
______VP -:- A question of God -:- Sat, Feb 20, 1999 at 14:45:14 (EST)
______Jim -:- Jimpals -:- Sat, Feb 20, 1999 at 14:58:51 (EST)
________Passing thru -:- Jimpals -:- Sat, Feb 20, 1999 at 16:31:47 (EST)
__________Jethro -:- Infinite state-to PT -:- Sun, Feb 21, 1999 at 02:29:56 (EST)
____________Passing thru -:- Infinite state-Jethro -:- Mon, Feb 22, 1999 at 00:42:15 (EST)
______________Jethro -:- Infinite state-Jethro -:- Mon, Feb 22, 1999 at 04:51:08 (EST)
____VP -:- Prempals -:- Sat, Feb 20, 1999 at 11:37:24 (EST)
__Jean-Michel -:- You're confused -:- Sat, Feb 20, 1999 at 00:25:10 (EST)
__JW -:- My Message to BM -:- Sat, Feb 20, 1999 at 10:59:14 (EST)
____g's mom -:- JWs message to BM -:- Sat, Feb 20, 1999 at 12:11:15 (EST)
______Helen -:- JWs message to BM -:- Sun, Feb 21, 1999 at 11:46:04 (EST)

Roger Drek -:- Drek's Best of Forum - New! -:- Fri, Feb 19, 1999 at 13:30:18 (EST)
__Roger -:- The Voting has already started -:- Fri, Feb 19, 1999 at 14:06:36 (EST)

Stevei -:- We are loosing our Perspective -:- Fri, Feb 19, 1999 at 11:30:03 (EST)
__Runamok -:- We are loosing our Perspective -:- Fri, Feb 19, 1999 at 11:46:16 (EST)
____I think not -:- Are we loosing Perspective? -:- Fri, Feb 19, 1999 at 12:39:12 (EST)
______Skunkfart -:- Are we losing Perspective? -:- Fri, Feb 19, 1999 at 15:52:01 (EST)
________A Premie -:- You are SOOOO Negative -:- Fri, Feb 19, 1999 at 16:03:46 (EST)
__________I think not -:- nauseating -:- Fri, Feb 19, 1999 at 17:18:28 (EST)
____________JW -:- nauseating -:- Fri, Feb 19, 1999 at 17:25:16 (EST)
______________I think not -:- nauseating -:- Fri, Feb 19, 1999 at 17:30:37 (EST)
______________Jethro -:- nauseating -:- Fri, Feb 19, 1999 at 19:46:35 (EST)
______________Jerry -:- nauseating -:- Fri, Feb 19, 1999 at 19:52:25 (EST)
________________JW -:- nauseating -:- Sat, Feb 20, 1999 at 00:36:33 (EST)
____________Gail -:- nauseating -:- Fri, Feb 19, 1999 at 19:50:44 (EST)
__gery -:- We are loosing our Perspective -:- Fri, Feb 19, 1999 at 13:06:00 (EST)
____Runamok -:- We are winning -:- Fri, Feb 19, 1999 at 17:11:46 (EST)
______gerry -:- We are winning -:- Fri, Feb 19, 1999 at 17:18:04 (EST)
__Jerry -:- We are loosing our Perspective -:- Fri, Feb 19, 1999 at 19:36:02 (EST)
____Skunkfart -:- It's all NOTHING BUT CRAP -:- Fri, Feb 19, 1999 at 20:18:36 (EST)
______gerry -:- Hey Skunkie! -:- Fri, Feb 19, 1999 at 20:26:30 (EST)
________Runamok -:- MM and skunk -:- Sat, Feb 20, 1999 at 00:14:59 (EST)
__________Helen -:- MM and skunk -:- Sat, Feb 20, 1999 at 03:48:54 (EST)
____________Denise -:- Premies on this site -:- Sat, Feb 20, 1999 at 09:30:18 (EST)
______________Happy -:- Premies on this site -:- Sat, Feb 20, 1999 at 09:37:10 (EST)
________________Denise -:- Premies on this site -:- Sat, Feb 20, 1999 at 09:46:45 (EST)
__________________Happy -:- M must be stopped -:- Sat, Feb 20, 1999 at 10:02:22 (EST)
____________________Sam -:- M must be stopped -:- Sat, Feb 20, 1999 at 16:37:32 (EST)
__________________Helen -:- Premies on this site -:- Sat, Feb 20, 1999 at 10:03:07 (EST)
__________________Robert -:- Premies on this site -:- Sat, Feb 20, 1999 at 18:17:54 (EST)
____________________Robert -:- For Denise -:- Sat, Feb 20, 1999 at 18:25:13 (EST)
____________________Jim -:- Think a bit, Robert -:- Sat, Feb 20, 1999 at 18:26:12 (EST)
______________________Cd -:- Think a bit, Robert -:- Sat, Feb 20, 1999 at 19:25:58 (EST)
________________________VP -:- Think a bit, Robert -:- Sat, Feb 20, 1999 at 23:32:42 (EST)
____________________Jerry -:- Premies on this site -:- Sat, Feb 20, 1999 at 23:47:50 (EST)
______________________Mickey the Pharisee -:- Premies on this site -:- Sun, Feb 21, 1999 at 02:10:37 (EST)
__Richard -:- Grow up Stevei.. -:- Sat, Feb 20, 1999 at 09:50:51 (EST)

Lurking pwk -:- Choice -:- Fri, Feb 19, 1999 at 09:53:08 (EST)
__bobby -:- Choice -:- Fri, Feb 19, 1999 at 10:11:09 (EST)
____gerry -:- Choice -:- Fri, Feb 19, 1999 at 10:53:11 (EST)
______Bobby -:- Choice -:- Fri, Feb 19, 1999 at 11:55:21 (EST)
________gerry -:- Choice -:- Fri, Feb 19, 1999 at 12:16:36 (EST)
__________Bobby -:- The way it should be (ot) -:- Fri, Feb 19, 1999 at 12:33:31 (EST)
__________Bobby -:- Choice -:- Fri, Feb 19, 1999 at 12:42:52 (EST)
__________Helen -:- Choice -:- Fri, Feb 19, 1999 at 12:47:58 (EST)
____________Bobby -:- Choice -:- Fri, Feb 19, 1999 at 13:04:53 (EST)
______________Helen -:- Choice -:- Fri, Feb 19, 1999 at 14:35:45 (EST)
____________gerry -:- Choice -:- Fri, Feb 19, 1999 at 13:19:14 (EST)
______________Helen -:- Mt Rainier -:- Fri, Feb 19, 1999 at 14:41:38 (EST)
________________gerry -:- Mt Rainier -:- Fri, Feb 19, 1999 at 15:28:11 (EST)
__________________Helen -:- Mt Rainier -:- Fri, Feb 19, 1999 at 18:17:49 (EST)
____Jean-Michel -:- Choice: Bobby? -:- Fri, Feb 19, 1999 at 10:57:05 (EST)
______Bobby -:- Choice: Bobby? -:- Fri, Feb 19, 1999 at 11:38:46 (EST)
__Way -:- Choice -:- Fri, Feb 19, 1999 at 11:02:40 (EST)
____JW -:- Very Well Said (nt) -:- Fri, Feb 19, 1999 at 12:51:13 (EST)
____Lurking pwk -:- Choice -:- Fri, Feb 19, 1999 at 21:27:37 (EST)
______JHB -:- Choice -:- Fri, Feb 19, 1999 at 21:34:59 (EST)
________Lurking pwk -:- Choice -:- Fri, Feb 19, 1999 at 21:40:20 (EST)
__________Jean-Michel -:- Choice -:- Sat, Feb 20, 1999 at 06:00:41 (EST)
______JW -:- Choice -:- Sat, Feb 20, 1999 at 11:16:20 (EST)
________Lurking pwk -:- Choice -:- Sun, Feb 21, 1999 at 21:38:59 (EST)
__________JW -:- Choice -:- Mon, Feb 22, 1999 at 13:00:27 (EST)

g's mom -:- I AM SO FURIOUS -:- Fri, Feb 19, 1999 at 01:01:26 (EST)
__Happy -:- I AM SO FURIOUS -:- Fri, Feb 19, 1999 at 08:45:57 (EST)
__Jean-Michel -:- I AM SO FURIOUS -:- Fri, Feb 19, 1999 at 09:04:34 (EST)
__Helen -:- I AM SO FURIOUS -:- Fri, Feb 19, 1999 at 10:51:37 (EST)
__g's mom -:- I am calmer now... -:- Fri, Feb 19, 1999 at 13:12:54 (EST)
____Jean-Michel -:- I am calmer now... -:- Fri, Feb 19, 1999 at 13:30:56 (EST)
____Roger Drek -:- I am calmer now... -:- Fri, Feb 19, 1999 at 13:38:45 (EST)
____JW -:- Jagdeo the child molester -:- Fri, Feb 19, 1999 at 14:21:33 (EST)
______Jean-Michel -:- Jagdeo the child molester -:- Fri, Feb 19, 1999 at 17:03:04 (EST)
__Stevei -:- What a Load of Baloony -:- Fri, Feb 19, 1999 at 18:19:23 (EST)
____Nimrod -:- What a Load of Baloony -:- Fri, Feb 19, 1999 at 19:03:34 (EST)
______Helen -:- What a Load of Baloony -:- Sat, Feb 20, 1999 at 04:03:13 (EST)
________Happy -:- Not Baloony -:- Sat, Feb 20, 1999 at 09:41:33 (EST)
________Denise -:- ' Baloony' -:- Sat, Feb 20, 1999 at 09:52:01 (EST)
______Denise -:- The Truth Hurts -:- Sat, Feb 20, 1999 at 09:40:11 (EST)
________Helen -:- The Truth Hurts -:- Sat, Feb 20, 1999 at 10:07:01 (EST)
________Jim -:- Here's the test, Denise -:- Sat, Feb 20, 1999 at 13:48:37 (EST)
________tj -:- The Truth Hurts -:- Sun, Feb 21, 1999 at 17:12:52 (EST)
__________JHB -:- The Truth Hurts -:- Sun, Feb 21, 1999 at 22:01:14 (EST)
____Mickey the Pharisee -:- What a Load of Baloony -:- Sat, Feb 20, 1999 at 13:32:28 (EST)
____Brian -:- What a Load of Baloony -:- Sat, Feb 20, 1999 at 13:51:57 (EST)
____chr -:- What a Load of Baloony -:- Sat, Feb 20, 1999 at 17:31:30 (EST)


Date: Sat, Feb 20, 1999 at 17:38:15 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Maharaji's poetry
Message:
Love is beautiful, for it can give even the ugliest a look of divinity

Truer words he's never said. Have you guys actually read this shit? It's truly, undeniably, no-kidding worse than what you'd get out of a precocious grade eight kid. The 'Soul Bird' one, has anyone tried to say this out loud? Forget about the empty cliches, the half-assed awkward stab at a few literary devices. This poem scans worse than ... well, here:

Fill me, soul bird, recite your lovely song
Sing to me, you do no wrong,
First time I feel so free
I hear you, from within me.


But it's all that bad!

And what's this garbage:

Feeling that is, was, and will be
A gentle love free
No consideration for tomorrow
Space for joy, none for sorrow
Heightened affection grows
No dismal to and fro
Together, but separated for long
Alas. Heart grows strong
No definite course to take
Elated with the heart, I awake
No conclusion to reach
Feeling to learn, feeling to teach
I wonder why this is so hard
But have I ever heard my heart?
In silence I learn to listen
In simple joy I begin to glisten
All thoughts seem so distant
Want to feel only the instance
The clever in me wants to fear
The heart in me wants the dear
Conflict is, but will be over
Heart will win, I will be sober


Something Maharaji scribbled down at his mistress's after a heavy night of drinking? The 'clever' in him 'wants to fear'? 'The heart wants the dear'? He doesn't know if he's ever 'heard' his 'heart'? He's got conflict and wants sobriety? This is maudlin, stupid and just plain awful. Next!

Next is 'Just You'. Talk about morose:

'Hear me, for I call out to you
You alone must hear my plea
I have no one else to call
No one else will hear me'

And, what's this? A religious call for redemption? Did Maharaji swerve a bit off the Golden Road of Unlimited Devotion:

Bless me with nothing less
Fasten me clse to yourself with love's glue
For this time I seek nothing else
But just you.


Hmm...

And then there's 'Search Ends'. Now this really DOES sound like a confused little girl in grade eight writing some earnest nonsense:

A new beginning
A love true
A friend found
No bond but of love
No thoughts
No definitions
So exact with ecstasy
Firm but flowing
No known paths
But companionship
Alas
True it is
A flee from sorrow
No hours to borrow
Gaping distances covered
Hidden feelings discovered
The search ends.


'Exact with ecstasy'? 'Firm but flowing'? This is tripe! This is the product of an inferior mind with no education. I mean, tell me, Chris, am I missing something? Surely with all your great books you can appreciate a good read. Maybe I'm just not getting it. I mean is there realyl something here of, say, the quality of Jonathan Livingston Seagull? Hm? What do you think? I think it's garbage myself.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Feb 20, 1999 at 18:34:21 (EST)
From: Tacky Romance Noevlist
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Maharaji's poetry
Message:
'In simple joy I begin to glisten..'.

I wonder if he minds if I steal this line for one of my novels...I'm picturing Fabio on the cover, his pecs glistening....see in romance novels, it doesn't matter if the words make sense as long as they lead up to the climax...readers don't really care, that's the beauty of being a romance writer!!
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Date: Sun, Feb 21, 1999 at 14:38:13 (EST)
From: Raunchy Porn Writer
Email: None
To: Tacky Romance Noevlist
Subject: Maharaji's poetry
Message:
'In simple joy I begin to throb..'.

I wonder if he minds if I steal this line for one of my novels...I'm picturing Johnny Wad on the cover, his manhood glistening....see in porno novels, it doesn't matter if the words make sense as long as they lead up to the climax...readers don't really care, that's the beauty of being a porn writer!!
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Date: Sun, Feb 21, 1999 at 23:34:24 (EST)
From: In Simplicity
Email: None
To: RPW and TRN
Subject: I ask this question
Message:
how can it be
that my LORD'S POETRY
should be
about
SPIRITUAL PORNOGRAPHY?
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Date: Mon, Feb 22, 1999 at 04:20:43 (EST)
From: Snuff Film Director
Email: None
To: In Simplicity
Subject: I ask this question
Message:
Your Lord's poetry is the hardcore rape of the thinking rational part of innocent people.
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Date: Sat, Feb 20, 1999 at 18:34:44 (EST)
From: Brian
Email: brian@ex-premie.org
To: Jim
Subject: Hark, The Lark - Alas, The Ass
Message:
It's pretty bad, alright. Still, I gotta root for his heart over his drunken thinking when he writes this part:

Heart will win, I will be sober
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Date: Sat, Feb 20, 1999 at 19:08:16 (EST)
From: red heart
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: sweeten your words
Message:
My advice: sweeten your words. You may find you must eat them one day.
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Date: Sat, Feb 20, 1999 at 22:59:29 (EST)
From: brown bowels
Email: None
To: red heart
Subject: excreting YOUR words...
Message:
...as i speak to you now...and feeling much better ,thank you.
love, bb.
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Date: Sat, Feb 20, 1999 at 21:14:26 (EST)
From: Mickey the Pharisee
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Maharaji's poetry
Message:
Geez Jim, why do you do this stuff? I avoid going to enjoyingsittingwithmythumbupmyasswhilereadingboringexpressions.org and maharji'silovecookies.org and you have to drag that crap over here! Sheesh! Well, it is good to have you back. When are you going to finish that tape? I wanna hear your stuff! Now get back in that studio and mix the damn thing.
Love in Christ,
Rev. M. G. Dresbach
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Date: Sun, Feb 21, 1999 at 03:44:50 (EST)
From: patrick
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Maharaji's poetry
Message:
Well ,that's the poetry,what do you think about the art work,like the one of the beggining.I think is a green circle or something like that.
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Date: Sun, Feb 21, 1999 at 23:27:55 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: patrick
Subject: Honestly?
Message:
To tell you the truth, I love it. That soft-hued green thing, looks like the kind of deco light patterns Perfect Masters were showing back in the fifties. You have to admit, that was a really good period for knowledge and all sorts of spiritual experiences. Not too many people know that, you know.
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Date: Sat, Feb 20, 1999 at 13:43:24 (EST)
From: Denise
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Thank you for the support
Message:
Just wanted to take a minute and thank everyone for the support. I feel like I've been on an emotional roller coaster the last few days and it's been difficult. Thanks for being there (thanks Helen!) and for the site in the first place.

Still working on things, denial system just won't quit but I'm getting there. Maybe I need to just keep reading. Have read a few Journeys, anyone have any suggestions of people's to read or other sites to explore? Have done some of this.

P.S. Thanks to Bobby for the sound bite re: Apu. Didn't know this could be done, it was too cool. My kids keep begging me to replay it.

Have a good weekend, y'all!
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Date: Sat, Feb 20, 1999 at 13:55:42 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Denise
Subject: Thank you for the support
Message:
Denise,

Get a copy of The Guru Papers. You can probably find an excerpt somewhere on the web, but the books is well worth the time and money. It's kind of like reading a 'How to' book on magic if you're confused about magic being somehing other than just a stage show.
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Date: Sat, Feb 20, 1999 at 14:20:19 (EST)
From: JW
Email: None
To: Denise
Subject: The Guru Papers
Message:
FYI -- 'The Guru Papers: Masks of Authoritarian Power,' is a book by Kramer and Alstad, distributed by North Atlantic Books in Berkeley, California. Published in 1993.

The ISBN number is 1-883319-00-5

I agree with Jim, it's an excellent book, slicing through all the guru/master nonsense. What Maharaji is doing isn't anything new, he's just like a lot of other spiritual frauds, which the book makes clear.
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Date: Sun, Feb 21, 1999 at 00:50:02 (EST)
From: Scott T.
Email: freewheeling@bigfoot.com
To: JW
Subject: The Guru Papers
Message:
JW:

I agree with Jim, it's an excellent book, slicing through all the guru/master nonsense. What Maharaji is doing isn't anything new, he's just like a lot of other spiritual frauds, which the book makes clear.

If I said that a certain type of religious organization was fraudulent because of the power relationship involved, that's one thing. The basic argument, that one-way communication and accountability ought to be suspect, is sound. The Guru Papers goes MUCH farther than that, however. I just want to go on record (again) by way of saying that this book has it's own thoroughly disguised agenda. On this level it does nothing but make assertions. It has a diagnosis, but no real prescription. You might be in agreement with their assertions for your own reasons, but Kramer and Alstad make no convincing case. What they're saying has been said before. If you read The German Ideology you might find many of the ideas, and even the language, strangely familiar.

-Scott
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Date: Sat, Feb 20, 1999 at 16:29:27 (EST)
From: CD
Email: None
To: Denise
Subject: viewpoints and answers
Message:
>anyone have any suggestions of people's to read or other sites to explore?

Jim and JW have recommended the book The Guru Papers

Here are my picks for interesting books:
My Book List

There are certainly many viewpoints and 'answers'.
Probably because the existence and possibilities are so vast.
The simple can get lost in the complex.
It certainly is a lifes work to choose the right stuff.

Enjoy the journey,
CD
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Date: Sat, Feb 20, 1999 at 17:17:10 (EST)
From: Stevei
Email: None
To: CD
Subject: Thanks
Message:
CD Thanks for your Book List....very interesting....You are a good soul....
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Date: Sat, Feb 20, 1999 at 17:18:14 (EST)
From: Denise
Email: None
To: CD
Subject: viewpoints and answers
Message:
Have already read most of the list of spirituality books you mention, I guess these must be the standards. Thanks for the suggestions.

I do, however, need to read up on computers. My experience is limited to document preparation software, installing kids' discs, and using Word Perfect 6.1. I know very little about computers other than what I've needed for work or entertainment. Oh, and by the way, what is a HTML? Just curious.
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Date: Sat, Feb 20, 1999 at 17:39:09 (EST)
From: Stevei
Email: None
To: Denise
Subject: HTML
Message:
HTML --->>> Hyper Text Markup Language
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Date: Sat, Feb 20, 1999 at 18:05:32 (EST)
From: Bobby
Email: None
To: Denise
Subject: viewpoints and answers
Message:
HTML is much of the code that makes web pages possible.
The good thing about it is that for someone even a little familiar with computers it is not too complex. You can do some basic web page 'mark-ups' with a few commands.

That Apu sound file you found interesting down below was done with a relatively simple HTML command.
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Date: Sat, Feb 20, 1999 at 18:13:58 (EST)
From: CD
Email: None
To: Denise
Subject: HTML - off topic
Message:
'Think and Grow Rich' is pretty interesting. You should be able to find a cheap copy in any bookstore.

HTML is the underlying formatting that gives web pages their layout. Try the 'View Source' command on your browser to see the HTML - Hypertext Markup Language. The web server sends your browser a data file in HTML format and the browser interprets the HTML commands to format the document. HTML format tags are somewhat similar to the way Word Perfect used format tags to do things such as set a font type and size.

You might try the 'How the Internet Works' book on my list. It has lots of great color illustrations. Also 'Learn the Internet in a Weekend' will make you more proficient in using Internet capabilities.

Chris Dickey
San Diego,CA
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Date: Sat, Feb 20, 1999 at 20:11:33 (EST)
From: Sir David
Email: david.studio57@btinternet.com
To: Denise
Subject: viewpoints and answers
Message:
Denise; If you look at the top of your web browser, you'll see some menus. In the View menu there is an item called Source. If you click on source, a text file will open showing the HTML for the web page that is currently in the browser. It looks very complicated, depending on what sort of web page is open but broken down, it is quite simple and logical.

These days you don't need a knowledge of HTML to design a web page since there are programs specifically made for web designing which sort out all the HTML for you and just give you a simple 'front end' to deal with. The latest Netscape has such a web design feature and so does Microsoft Word.

All my web pages have been designed without the use of a web creation program and if you think that's difficult, you'd be mistaken. You can look at the HTML source code of other people's web pages and figure out what they are doing and then copy and paste any interesting HTML code to use yourself. When building web pages I always find it useful to have a store of HTML on some text files which I can copy and paste into my document. It saves laboriously typing it out one character at a time.
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Date: Sat, Feb 20, 1999 at 17:41:09 (EST)
From: chr
Email: None
To: Denise
Subject: Thank you for the support
Message:
Denise, you come across as a very genuine person. Good luck with sorting everything out. We've all been through some sort of process here, and perhaps the most difficult thing is to realise that K can exist without M.You're in a lucky position in that you haven't had a lot to do with M.Some initiators and other premies I know(including myself) found we were too intertwined with M to separate the two and basically ended up throwing out both.It can be a bit like having a bad relationship and wanting to throw out anything that reminds you of that person,even if it's useful.
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Date: Sat, Feb 20, 1999 at 19:20:06 (EST)
From: Denise
Email: None
To: chr
Subject: Thank you for the support
Message:
I guess I've realized that not thinking of M as my Master should not affect my experience of K, which I have found very fulfilling to say the least.

The thing I realized about myself is that though I hardly ever saw M, it was a comforting feeling to feel like he was the one bringing the feeling of love that I experience with K. It's sad not having someone in that position, but I guess it was all in my mind anyway.
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Date: Sat, Feb 20, 1999 at 20:36:20 (EST)
From: chr
Email: None
To: Denise
Subject: Thank you for the support
Message:
I know what you mean. I found it sad too,like a shattered dream. I mean, with M we had a god that we could see and listen to and sometimes even talk to , if we were lucky. Trouble was he turned out to not only not be a god, but also a lousy teacher.
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Date: Sun, Feb 21, 1999 at 05:09:35 (EST)
From: Robert
Email: None
To: Denise
Subject: Thank you for the support
Message:
Hi Denise,

I posted this way down below on another thread and I'm not sure if you received it so here it is again with some additions...

'The scary thing is I still want to feel love for M, it makes me feel good, but after learning what I have,
it may never feel the same again anyway.' 'It's sad not having someone in that position, but I guess it was all in my mind anyway.'

Dear Denise,

I'd say a scarier thing is that you could be talked so easily out of something that has meant so much to
you and has, according to you, only been a pretty wonderful thing in your life. I hope you couldn't be
talked out of your marriage or any major friendship in your life the same way. Imagine if there was a
web page devoted solely to bashing your husband. Horrible things were written about him over and
over again and you went and visited it every day. Whether or not any or most of it was true, you'd get
a sickening feeling in your stomache and your heart. You'd read how he had an affair with so and so,
misled you about such and such until you'd find it hard to even look at him. What changed? It's still
the same man. Your history with him is the same. You don't know any of the people with this
questionable 'information' on him. Would you just swallow it? This is emotional food poisoning.

Have YOU ever had a bad experience with Maharaji? What's YOUR experience with Knowledge?
Some of the people who you're so easily swayed by here, you probably wouldn't even trust for a
movie review or let into your house for a cocktail party. Some, I'm sure, would be delightful company (Bobby, Katie & Robyn come to mind.) Consider this: there are, to be generous, about 20 people who post on this page regularly (in case you haven't noticed, some post under multiple identities.) Maharaji has been teaching in the West since 1971. That's about 28 years. Do a little math Denise. Yes, they are rabidly disgruntled (interesting phrase!) Most, like JW, Jim etc. haven't been around since the '70s. They've been building their toxic charge up for that long. Do you have any idea how many more people have, like you 'til this point, been thriving with knowledge and with M as their guide? Think about that. All of a sudden he's a tyrant, he hates premies, he's only in it for the money...in short, he's done everything but murder Nicole Simpson..but wait! where was he anyway that day? I think we'd better check his schedule.

You are listening to gossip, some of it quite ridiculous, largely from people who've never even met
Maharaji. Does it really ring true to you? Is that the guy you've been learning from? Do you have so
little respect for him that you just blindly believe this crap? I know it's 'juicy' and lurid and I know it's
easy to become addicted to posting. Just look around this page. Posting addicts everywhere. Often an
excuse for not getting on with real life. If you want some good dirt, I'd suggest Hard Copy.

One last thing. I've lived and quite happily through all these periods...early days, ashram, DLM, no
DLM, 70s, 80s, 90s. There have been things that weirded me out, people I couldn't stand (Bob
Mishler and Mike Donner being two of them), difficult transitions and people on power trips. 2 things
have been amazingly constant. The feeling from practicing knowledge which is very strong, tangible
and pure...and the love, great humor and radiance of Maharaji who I've had the pleasure of spending
time with both at events and personally through all those changes. He treats people beautifully and with
respect (this is 1st hand), has a well developed mischievous streak, is not at all pretentious or stuffy
and is the most locked into his center of anyone I've ever met. He's been very kind to me and many
other people I know, not at all the monster painted here. Anything but. Happy says he has a monstrous
ego. He doesn't act like that at all, being somewhat shy and very polite, as anyone who's actually met
him would know. His children, who've been gossiped about here in despicable ways, are warm, smart, funny, engaging and amazingly well adjusted for having grown up in such an unusual and public situation. AJW, who is probably the only person on this site who actually knows them, will back this up if he's at all truthful. His wife, who's been abused here as well, adores him and has been through her own difficult situations and handled them with uncanny poise and class. She's come back from a life-threatening illness and has never been warmer or more loving. They know that they're living with a true Master and they see him all the time.

Incredible wine...or sour grapes (incredible whine!.) That's your choice. Use your wisdom.

Best to you Denise, Robert

...and y'all have a great weekend as well....
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Date: Sun, Feb 21, 1999 at 17:01:34 (EST)
From: tj
Email: None
To: Denise
Subject: Thank you for the support
Message:
Denise: Just want to echo the well-wishes to you on sorting out the things you are dealing with. One thing to take into accout though which is contrary to most of the advice you will get here. If you find Knowledge a value in your life, remember there was somebody who went to the effort to tell you about it, see that you understood it, and then showed it to you. And that person is still there encouraging you to continue unwrapping this gift -- for it is a never-ending discovery of its riches. You have to ask yourself (and I mean this is something that only you can answer), 'Would you really have found it and progressed as far as you have if it had not been for that person?' Take care.
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Date: Sun, Feb 21, 1999 at 17:36:47 (EST)
From: Denise
Email: None
To: tj
Subject: Thank you for the support
Message:
No, I would never have progressed this far spiritually without M taking the time and effort to spread K. You're absolutely right. This is one thing I can't get out of my mind.
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Date: Sun, Feb 21, 1999 at 17:49:02 (EST)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Denise
Subject: Thank you for the support
Message:
No, I would never have progressed this far spiritually without M taking the time and effort to spread K.

I'm not sure what you mean by 'spiritual progress' but how do you know this for sure? Maybe the truth is you wouild have progress much, much further had you not been snagged by this cult.
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Date: Sun, Feb 21, 1999 at 23:42:54 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Denise
Subject: This is the hard part, Denise
Message:
No, I would never have progressed this far spiritually without M taking the time and effort to spread K. You're absolutely right. This is one thing I can't get out of my mind.

Denise,

It's easy to see Maharaji for what he is. The hard part is seeing through 'knowledge'. Frankly, I spent years convinced that Maharaji was fake before I came to realize that knowledge is too. But, you see, for me it's pretty black and white now. I think there is no such thing as 'spirituality'. I think it's all illusion or brain phenomena. Peace, powerful feelings, and all sorts of stuff might be experienced tweaking with one's attention (e.g. meditating or ingesting various substances). I just don't believe that there's any sort of conscious force above, below, inside, outside, anywhere you might imagine it, that's god-like.

If you don't believe as I do, you can at least deal with the issue of standards. The only way to accept Maharaji is on his terms. That means that every last part of your ability to scrutinize, inquire, judge or analyze, is worthless. It's no coincidence that Maharaji trashes the mind as he does. Ask yourself if you think life was meant to be lived like that? I say the answer's obvious.
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Date: Mon, Feb 22, 1999 at 11:01:30 (EST)
From: Rick
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: This is the hard part, Denise
Message:
Hi Jim,
Mind if I butt in? I know I'm not a premie but I can't resist. Denise has pretty much acknowledged that there's a fly in the ointment but you're not addressing her rebound, which is... even though m has said and done questionable things, and even though the experience may be physical, it's still exceptional, and the only place it could be found (after lots of searching) was from m. This results in a feeling of gratitude towards m.

Sorry.

Rick
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Date: Mon, Feb 22, 1999 at 11:59:10 (EST)
From: g's mom
Email: None
To: Denise
Subject: Jim's hard part..
Message:
maybe I ought to rephrase that....

After I left the cult I clung, as I still do, to logic as a tool for protecting myself from being sucked in by any other cult again. I am suspicious of everything. I have Rawat to thank for that.

Jim is very certain in his atheism. I am not sure I can articulate this as well as Jim, JW Katie or Helen or any of my friends here but here is my effort.

We have had forum discussions about how Rawat/dlm/ev has really made it so difficult for us to have a spiritual life in our post premie lives. Jim says that is because there is no God. I am not so sure about that. I myself, whenever I approach the subject of God whether it be for myself or with another, have a very hard time not playing by Rawats rules. It is just one of those less than delightful legacies of my cult years. I look at all things spiritual through my ex premie prism. One of the ex premies here is a priest. Somehow he has made it past this. I am not sure I ever will. I think if there is a God that God will know I am doing my best to be open to the idea he might be there. I guess I am saying that for those of us who devoted ourselves to the cult hook line and sinker...trusting anything that cannot be proven is the first step in losing ourselves. Maybe some of us cannot do it. Maybe some of us just cannot shake the cult think well enough to learn to look at the role of God in our lives in an entirely different way. I know I have this problem.

Is Knowledge fake? In my opinion it does not prove what I was told it proves in my Knowledge session. But I do feel that when one is quiet, and tries to focus only on the force of life within oneself, one is faced with a feeling that there is more than just a randomness of evolution to life. Sorry Jim. I do not think Rawat is even a little unique in this. Many humans know this. Lots of my non premie friends know this. So maybe Knowledge is not fake. But I think it is very misrepresented and that it has been the excuse for all manner of evil behavior and Rawat has used this to build an empire and have people worship him.

I think Denise if you were never that into the Rawat is God part of the cult anyway you really may be able to still have knowledge be an okay thing in your life. Meditating that is. I can't. It scares the shit out of me. But I think it does for the same reason crowds do, for the same reasons that new age things do, for the same reason any sort of religion does, those things hurt me in the past and I have not yet, and may never as it has been a long time, learned to take them without fearing I will be taken in by a scam.

One more thing, a premie here urged you to check things out for yourself. May I speak for most of us ex's and say yes do that! You may be finding this info on the net but I for one am a living breathing human. You have seen the old mamgazines. Meet ex premies in person if you want. Ask Rawat the hard questions and see if he answers. I do not think it really is that hard to see Rawat is a bad person. We do not need all the rumors for that. What if he had been squeaky clean in how he had run DLM, what if his personal life was exemplary, it would not have made it okay, he let people worship him as god, he let them give their lives to him, sacrifice their families to him, give tons and tons of money to him and he took full advantage of that money to live a lifestyle worthy of Robin Leach's show. But he isn't God, hey, he isn't even a figurehead or leader. That is really all anyone needs to know to see what he really is.
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Date: Mon, Feb 22, 1999 at 14:02:46 (EST)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: g's mom
Subject: Force of life
Message:
But I do feel that when one is quiet, and tries to focus only on the force of life within oneself, one is faced with a feeling that there is more than just a randomness of evolution to life.

Hi g's mom,

Is that a feeling or a thought? When I focus on the 'force of life' within myself (which is easier to get to WITHOUT meditation, by the way) I am amazed at the thought that this feeling which rests in THIS consciousness is the result of billions of years of evolution. I am much more impressed and fascinated by this thought than I am the thought that God did it. I 'feel' closer to the truth when I think there is no God than I do when I think there is.
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Date: Mon, Feb 22, 1999 at 15:29:08 (EST)
From: g's mom
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: did I write that?
Message:
I was having a hard time with expressing myself in that post. I still think there is something more to it all than just evolution. And no, I do not meditate, so for me meditating is not part of it. But I think it could be for a person with less screwed up associations with meditating.

I am getting the creeps cause I sound so illogical.

I just think that all ex premies do not have to leave this behind. I do not think that all ex premies must be atheists to be logically consistant. Aren't the Jesuits great logicians? They believe in God. I think there are non cult like ways of believing in God. I am not there yet. Maybe I will never be. But I think it is possible.
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Date: Mon, Feb 22, 1999 at 16:11:04 (EST)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: g's mom
Subject: did I write that?
Message:
I am getting the creeps cause I sound so illogical.

No more so than the rest of us, g's mom. Of course there's the killer intellects, Jim, Rick, a couple of others that show the rest of us how a pro does it, but you hold your own well enough :)

Aren't the Jesuits great logicians?

Thomas Aquinas was one of the greatest thinkers of all time. Teilhard de Chardin(sp) too. I think both of these guys were Jesuits.

I think there are non cult like ways of believing in God. I am not there yet. Maybe I will never be. But I think it is possible.

I think if you believe whatever makes most sense to you, using your own intellect and not somebody else's, than that's what you should believe in.
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Date: Mon, Feb 22, 1999 at 21:18:07 (EST)
From: Diz
Email: None
To: Jerry, g's mom, Denise
Subject: keeping the baby, again
Message:
Hi, y'all

G's mom, relate to what you say about the difficulty of finding a connection that isn't polluted by past experience. Jerry and I have talked about this before. Denise, hi, haven't posted to you before but have followed some of your journey. Just wanted to say that I do think that you can keep the baby if you toss the bathwater. I'm still discovering what's possible in that regard, but even for someone like me, who got pretty badly beat up during their time with MJ, it's possible. For you, with no big trauma to deal with, should be fine.

There are many many people who have an experience of peace, or contentment, or love, or unity, or whatever. Perhaps even more importantly, there are many people who have meaning and love in their lives with or without including a meditation practice as part of that. Almost all are not premies. Some follow other spiritual teachers. Some adhere to mainstream religions. Some don't operate within the context of any religious or spiritual system at all. I've recently been reading a book which pulls together a whole lot of stories of people who have found meaning in life one way or another. It's fantastic - so diverse. And often, people have built their understanding through or despite times of real oppression (eg in war, childhood abuse). And through many changes.

One of the things that's been fantastic for me in leaving MJ has been the discovery of how many people can teach me something, through their examples or their words. These people AREN'T my master - doubt I'll ever have one again, for similar reasons to g's mom. I don't have to take everything they say as gospel. This leaves me free to appreciate what I can, and leave what I can't. I'm finally operating in a democratic, open society - I don't mean it's perfectly open, of course not, but compared to Mj's world it's freedom itself.

Last night I really felt the urge to meditate. Not to do the techniques, but to feel what was there. It was powerful, and good. And the fear I often feel wasn't there. Think that's because for the moment I'm understanding that that feeling IS universal, that it isn't tied to MJ. You see, MJ told me to 'walk', because I had questions. I can relate to what Rick said above - I approached MJ in that kind of agony (through letters, leaving my phone number etc) over several years without any satisfactory response (well, he once 'answered' one of my questions publicly - misread or misrepresented the question and basically said I'd made the whole problem up!!) However the point here is, sounds like he's washed his hands of me. But the experience of K is STILL THERE.

Hope all goes well for you, Denise. You do need to draw your own conclusions. My take on Mj isn't the same as that of others here, in some ways. But by hearing so many different experiences and analyses, I've become much clearer about what I do feel, and think, and value. I don't feel confused any more. Do always expect to hold my conclusions with some degree of tentativeness - to me that's part of being open to life.

Love, Diz
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Date: Mon, Feb 22, 1999 at 21:59:14 (EST)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: g's mom
Subject: Bravo
Message:
Great post, that's a printer-outer
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Date: Sun, Feb 21, 1999 at 18:41:02 (EST)
From: ham
Email: None
To: tj
Subject: Thank you for the support
Message:
tj, if someone nicks a video player and sells it to you, who should you be grateful to, and for how long, & how long would you keep paying them?

What if the video player is nicked, they tell you it's a gift, but keep you waiting for this perfect video-p?
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Date: Mon, Feb 22, 1999 at 14:36:09 (EST)
From: Nil
Email: None
To: ham
Subject: Thank you for the support
Message:
You guys are really funny! In the battle for Denise's soul you are scrambling like hell to try to minimize the role Maharaji played in teaching her Knowledge. Get real guys... without him 99% of us would never of learned the techniques, and out of the 1% who did, 99% would never have stuck with it long enough for it to bear any fruit at all. So my friends, no matter how much you negatively spin the facts to fit your ridiculous perception of him, he made Knowledge available, made it alive, made it fun, and made it acheivable for us average 20th century folk. No one else that I'm aware has made that kind of committment.
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Date: Mon, Feb 22, 1999 at 16:22:31 (EST)
From: Nimrod
Email: None
To: Nil
Subject: Thank you for the support
Message:
So my friends, no matter how much you negatively spin the facts to fit your ridiculous perception of him, he made Knowledge available, made it alive, made it fun,
and made it acheivable for us average 20th century folk.


Ah Nil, don't ask. Its been a barrel of laughs. Really has...ya know... premie suicides,too many people dying too young, child molestation, aiding and abetting of criminals,massive tax evasion,head fuckery left, right and centre...
But hey, he made Knowledge available, made it alive, made it fun
And take it from Nil, folks... he's really a 'fun' guy.
That is if you like little nazi pwicks.
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Date: Mon, Feb 22, 1999 at 19:33:47 (EST)
From: Nil
Email: None
To: Nimrod
Subject: Nimrod, you're an asshole!!
Message:
...premie suicides,too many people dying too young, child molestation, aiding and abetting of criminals,massive tax evasion,head fuckery left, right and centre...

Too many people dying too young??? Just what the FUCK are you talking about?? And tax evasion... You got ANY proof what-so-ever?? Ask the IRS if he's even under suspicion. And the child molestation bandwagon... if anybody's got a case then why the fuck don't they file it in a courtroom? No... it's easier for stupid acid-veined fucks like you to sit on the sidelines and throw emotionally charged accusations around without any need for substantive proof. Congratulations Nimrod. You are clearly the most disgusting asshole I've ever had cause to interact with on this forum. What do you eat for breakfast... rat poison?
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Date: Mon, Feb 22, 1999 at 19:44:32 (EST)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Nil
Subject: Nimrod, you're an asshole!!
Message:
As a premie, I was proud to believe that M and EV/DLM DID engage in tax evasion. I didn't want the Lord's money going to governments.

Tell me nil, don't you feel exactly the same????

John.
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Date: Mon, Feb 22, 1999 at 20:04:50 (EST)
From: Nil
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Nimrod, you're an asshole!!
Message:
As a premie, I was proud to believe that M and EV/DLM DID engage in tax evasion. I didn't want the Lord's money going to governments.

Well that's not the way M feels about it son, because he keeps his house VERY clean... ask the IRS. I'm glad you never had anything to do with his finances.
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Date: Mon, Feb 22, 1999 at 20:23:01 (EST)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Nil
Subject: You're not my father!
Message:
Nil,

'25 years upon this path to have you call me son' (to paraphrase the Grateful Dead)

If you really believe that M's and EV's donations around the planet fully comply with all local laws then I suspect you really are deluded. Anyway, why the hell should the LOTU obey earthly laws?

John.
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Date: Mon, Feb 22, 1999 at 22:24:42 (EST)
From: Gail
Email: None
To: Nil
Subject: Nimrod, isn't an asshole!!
Message:
Dear Nil:

I am glad to see your experience of K is so wonderful. Your experience of brotherly love is very profound. That's why you've called Nimrod an a-hole, right. Well, I don't have to be nice anymore, now that I'm not a premie. Why don't you G- F-CK Y--RS-LF! Wanna buy a vowel? Remember, MJ is the Lord. He doesn't need a twirp like you to defend him. He can hold his own when it comes to scrutiny. Any fool can see that.

I personally know that suitcases of money were sent from Canada to MJ without going through the proper tax channels. George Legere proudly boasted about it. Have you forgotten the jewel smuggling incident? Of course, we were happy to see the Lard trying to circumvent the system. After all, it was his universe, right?

Also, recently in Toronto, 1997, many envelopes were collected at the information table in addition to the registration fee. These envelopes were place in paper shopping bags and given to the PAMs at the end of the evening.

Numerous premies have committed suicide over the years. I personally knew John Hartling and his mother. They both committed suicide.

I have personally observed that many premies have become increasingly dysfunctional, myself included. Some folks have turned into alcoholics. Some have become totally reclusive. Most don't even work; they live on the avails of the taxpayers. Of course, they send some of this to MJ for a donation.

I am starting to feel a lot better now that I have solved the K puzzle--it's unrealizable. The more years I spent trying to realize K, the less interest I had in anything. The only things I really liked about the cult was the blast at programs and the friendships. Even these diminished over the years.

I wish you well, Nil. If this place bothers you so much, perhaps it is hitting a nerve or two. Why not take a break until your brainwashing is fully restored? May I suggest three videos and five hours meditation per day.
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Date: Tues, Feb 23, 1999 at 01:11:11 (EST)
From: Nimrod
Email: None
To: Nil
Subject: Nil, you're a nazi pwick!!
Message:
Ask the IRS if he's even under suspicion
Nil, I seriously believe that you are spending too much time with the fool on the hill. Keep it up and you may actually merge with him and become one yourself. Correction, YOU ARE already there. Yes Nil, a sad but true commentary on the state of your mind:
The wheel is spinning, but the hampster is dead
Do you think that if anyone here ever goes to the IRS it will be for the purpose of asking them your silly nilly questions? It will be done when the information is together that WE BELIEVE PLACES M UNDER SUSPICION, and we'll of course let the IRS determine the appropriate course of action from there.
But I must say Nil, that your presence on this forum is providing me personally, and perhaps others as well with the inspiration to play a more activist role in this pursuit of justice.
And for this, I do thank you.
In the meantime you could be a little moe hepfull by telling us a little something about Amtext. For example, when you say to JHB that THE BOSS (as we used to call him in the lovely slime infested world of Amtext) 'keeps a very clean house', can you tell us whether or not AMTEXT IS A PART OF THAT HOUSE?
We'll start there. OK?
And Nil, take it easy... ya know, stress is a killer.
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Date: Mon, Feb 22, 1999 at 19:10:10 (EST)
From: ham
Email: None
To: Nil
Subject: Thank you nilnil
Message:
Didn't know we knew each other so well.

For your information I only went to satsang including gm's for two very short periods. At most saw him at a dozen festivals over a twenty year period, and ALL my difficulties around knowledge came from either the totally incompetent way he ran his org (but then he wasn't the leader eh Nil), the problems that the premies who were more involved seem to have, and my trying to work out the whole mess, when he was so unnatractive, so useless, yet the k was working so well for me. He had to have some validity in the whole process. But I don't need to tell you this, since like mr slippery eel, you're obviously psychic and know everything, re your previous post.

I went for k TOTALLY because I knew someone, having strong meditations, who I grilled about their experiences over a long period. I was looking for a fast track to acid experiences without external drugs. That was a total focus for me, the guru was a TOTAL distraction, & someone I never could get to grips with.

How is it, if he's so important, that the less close people were to the whole apparatus, who did what they felt, rather than trying to deal with the confusion of multiple messages coming from him, they were more likely to be having a reasonable experience of k. Even you should be able to work that one out.

Hid dad nicked the techniques, kept it in the family firm. How long should I be grateful to someone, who confused me the moment a couple of his continual contradictory sentences came out of his mouth, EVERY time he spoke. I was grounded in a taoist/zen buddhist approach, & it was obvious he was screwing the path up. When it works, it's about a simple approach to the moment, no need for the dependency/authoritarian master leider role AT ALL. A good guru gets out of the way, debunks/takes the piss out of himself, asks for nothing because he's doing it out of compassion, NOT because as the incarnation of god he deserves, nay DEMANDS, the best of everything.
Continuing the whole hindu/lila thing, which is the ONLY way everyone could explain it all to themselves, fucked EVERYONE up, or was a major distraction from 'the path'. When it comes to 'spirituality' he has been incompetent, but when it comes to his ego & his lifestyle, very impressive. A true source of inspiration. You only have to look at the pams to see what their inspiration is. Luxury rules.

What would we do without you premies coming here, you are a major source of inspiration, on what is after all, a very boring topic.
God how the eel must hate the premies coming here, but from me big thanks nil, you're one of the best.
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Date: Mon, Feb 22, 1999 at 19:31:36 (EST)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: ham
Subject: Thank you nilnil
Message:
This is one of the best posts I've read on this forum (although I'm still working thru the archives). The bits about premies who ignored agya and just went with their own flow doing OK is very very important.

Well done ham (although I hope you're not a West Ham supporter - then we'd have serious religious wars here):-)

John.
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Date: Tues, Feb 23, 1999 at 18:31:22 (EST)
From: ham
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: jhb
Message:
Thanks.

It's Arsenal actually, although I live smack bang in W.Ham 'inter' territory.
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Date: Mon, Feb 22, 1999 at 19:56:48 (EST)
From: Nil
Email: None
To: ham
Subject: Thank you nilnil
Message:
Point is ham... he made the experience of Knowledge available for us. And many people have benefited tremendously from practising Knowledge. I can say for myself it was a life-saver. You just can't negate that fact with all your confusion about where HE fits into the picture. Remember... there are many very intellegent people who have been very close to him for many years who love him deeply and have nothing but praise for what he's doing. He is an enigma, yes... but what did you expect from the human incarnation of the Divine. ;-)
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Date: Mon, Feb 22, 1999 at 20:34:15 (EST)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Nil
Subject: Thank you nilnil
Message:
I refer you to my post re: Yuri Geller. Some broken watches will work restart if you pick them up. Some people will experience wonderful stuff from the techniques. So, he brought the techniques to lots of people - for many they work, for some they produce 'divine' experiences. For many they don't. But, as is well documented here, the techniques do not belong to M. Why does he claim ownership thru the promise he demands? Why not just broadcast them on network tv? Many, many more people would give them a go, and, I'm sure many more would get a very good experience from them. This argument that M is responsible for bringing the techniques to so many people doesn't hold water. In fact he uses his position to deny people the techniques.

John.
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Date: Sun, Feb 21, 1999 at 21:46:50 (EST)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: tj
Subject: Thank you for the support
Message:
Others on this forum have referred to the care a traditional sincere guru takes with each individual student. This clearly isn't the case with M and premies, in spite of how premies imagine their progress is down to M. It seems to me that he goes for the Yuri Geller (sp?) approach. Appear on TV, tell people to find an old watch that has stopped, and tell them to concentrate. Lo and behold, some watches start working. Because of the numbers of people watching, even a small percentage adds up to a lot of people phoning the TV station. The techniques do have a powerful beneficial effect on some people, if they put a reasonable effort in. Collect enough people and even if there is a 95% failure rate, the 5% will be enough to keep this cult going. This site is testimony to the harm done to some of the 95% M doesn't (and probably cannot, and doesn't even want to) take care of. A good guru would surely do better than this. (I'm probably being kind giving M a 5% success rate)
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Date: Sun, Feb 21, 1999 at 23:48:23 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: tj
Subject: That's not the way I see it
Message:
If you find Knowledge a value in your life, remember there was somebody who went to the effort to tell you about it, see that you understood it, and then showed it to you.

The way I see it, Maharaji has done all he can to package and present a bundle of mystique. The last thing he's ever wanted is for anyone to understand anything. Like he says on his website, this ain't no history class. Maharaji certainly doesn't want anyone to know where he came from, how this particular set of meditation techniques got clipped together as the great, wonderful 'Knowledge' or anything substantive. He trades in mystery. BOY, would I like to talk with him one of these days!
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Date: Sat, Feb 20, 1999 at 18:13:21 (EST)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Denise
Subject: Thank you for the support
Message:
I'm glad