Ex-Premie.Org |
Forum III Archive # 40 | |
From: Feb 26, 1999 |
To: Mar 8, 1999 |
Page: 1 Of: 5 |
|
Date: Fri, Mar 05, 1999 at 06:35:50 (EST)
From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Rare picture of sportsman Message: This is a gift for all exes (be ready to throw up) and for premies: See how m's a noble sportsman Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Fri, Mar 05, 1999 at 08:54:29 (EST)
From: Brian Email: brian@ex-premie.org To: Jean-Michel Subject: Of course, of course Message: Check out the devotees in his rearview mirror. Two of them have their hands on the sides of their faces. Such amazement! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Fri, Mar 05, 1999 at 10:05:24 (EST)
From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Brian Subject: Unbelievable, I tell you Message: I was there too. It was in Santyogashram, in 1980 or 81, first program where some dozens of westerners were 'invited' = allowed to come and pay! I was amongst the lucky ones, I guess 'someone' is regretting now.... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Fri, Mar 05, 1999 at 10:20:36 (EST)
From: g's mom Email: None To: Brian Subject: they are looking at the ... Message: horse's ass!!! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Fri, Mar 05, 1999 at 11:01:59 (EST)
From: Brian Email: brian@ex-premie.org To: g's mom Subject: Darn Message: I KNEW how you were gonna finish that one even before I read it. Just wish I'da thought of it first. Darn.... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Fri, Mar 05, 1999 at 13:27:35 (EST)
From: g's mom Email: None To: JM Subject: please please Message: JM, please add this caption on your webpage by that pic... 'note premies in the background admiring the horse's ass' Oh JM I hope you know enough American English slang to realize how funny that would be. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Fri, Mar 05, 1999 at 14:21:59 (EST)
From: Mr. Ed Email: None To: g's mom Subject: My ass Message: G's mom: We horses are very proud of our backsides, so please don't insult my ass by comparing it your ex-guru!!! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Fri, Mar 05, 1999 at 15:54:43 (EST)
From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: g's mom Subject: please please Message: 'note premies in the background admiring the horse's ass' I guess I now need some explanation, my English is not good enough! Who's going to help me? Jim, YOU know some French ... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Fri, Mar 05, 1999 at 19:28:43 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: Quel damage! Message: JM, Je regrette que j'ai oublie presque toute me francais (possiblement quand j'ai fume trop d' pot quand j'ai quite l'ashram). Excuse-moi mon ami. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Sat, Mar 06, 1999 at 05:32:52 (EST)
From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: g's mom Subject: So be it, and even MORE Message: You'll like it now I guess! See the horse's rear and one of his favourite propagation tool: Wonder why it's not on HIS website! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Fri, Mar 05, 1999 at 16:04:54 (EST)
From: HALIP Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: Rare picture of sportsman Message: Oooh, pretty sporty, I say ! What an 'allure', as we say back home... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Fri, Mar 05, 1999 at 21:38:23 (EST)
From: Runamok Email: None To: JeanMichel Subject: the rare horse's ass idiom Message: A 'horse's ass' is equivalent to calling someone an asshole, but it has pompous undertones. A horse's ass is a very rich, famous, or powerful asshole. N'est-ce pas? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Sat, Mar 06, 1999 at 15:07:13 (EST)
From: Happy Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: you are my pilot Message: Congrats! More of these! Bravo! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Mon, Mar 08, 1999 at 11:45:10 (EST)
From: g's mom Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: There are more horse's asses Message: than horses in the picture...... Another famous line that fits. Why I find this so amusing I do not know. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Mon, Mar 08, 1999 at 12:41:52 (EST)
From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: g's mom Subject: More on horse's asses Message: That kind of stuff almost blisses me out! Because I'm SO HAPPY he's pissed off with this, I'm sure he is. I'd really like to see him reading this! What's funny is that premies are very much afraid of getting him pissed, when we are not anymore. Sort of revenge? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Thurs, Mar 04, 1999 at 18:20:25 (EST)
From: Gail Email: None To: Jim Subject: TVO Documentary on the Lard Message: I just watched a TVO documentary on the COGs (CHILDREN OF GOD) yesterday. It was well done including the FLIRTY FISHING (those poor female devotees had to prostitute themselves for the cause). I think they might be willing to do one on the LARD OF DIVINE LIGHT MISSION as well. They could start with the old LOTU video (please send me a copy again). Then we could have excerpts from the old, uncopyrighted videos. Last, perhaps some interviews and updates of the now scene. I bet they'd do it! The COGS only have 9 000 members world-wide. In their heyday, they reached 38 000. The Lard topped those numbers. I have the number and will call. What do you think? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Thurs, Mar 04, 1999 at 21:58:14 (EST)
From: Helen Email: None To: Gail Subject: TVO Documentary on the Lard Message: GO FOR IT, GAIL and let us know what happens!!!!! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Thurs, Mar 04, 1999 at 23:40:50 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Gail Subject: Great idea Message: Gail, It IS a great story. Hell, it's more than that. It's a great screenplay. But, for some strange reason, no one's picked up on it yet. Now, I've got a theory. We know that Hollywood's run by the jews. We also know that, in the old days at least, there were an inordinate number of jews on campus. You don't have to be a genius to see how the jews are controlling both Hollywood AND the guru. Why do you think he lives in Malibu, for Christ's sake? [This, too, was a lame joke and not intended to slag anyone, least of all the followers of the former Lord of the Universe, Maharaji, who might very well be jewish, or who just as easily might not as, after all, you can practise any religion or creed (whatever that is) and still practise this ... um, practise, although being jewish can help apparently (if you're one of them rich ones your parents can hire better deprogrammers when you're 'finished')] Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Fri, Mar 05, 1999 at 11:37:05 (EST)
From: Gerry Email: None To: Jim Subject: Great idea Message: Jim you forgot that the newspapers and other print media are also run by jews, (those from that nasty blood line that loans all the money, I suspect, check with SHP) so that explains why there won't be any stories on him unless the Christian Monitor does one. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Fri, Mar 05, 1999 at 16:01:02 (EST)
From: HALIP Email: None To: Jim Subject: Great idea Message: Jim, Yes, it is a great idea to do a documentary to expose M, this forum does a wonderful job in that matter and reading some of the ex-premies journeys was a gread eye-opener for me, who weanned myself from this whole trip on my own... but, Jim, why are you dragging the Jewish community into this? I could have misunderstood you, but I read you post over, and it has an undertone that could pass for antisemitism... I apologize if it is not the case, could be humor, but I don't get the connection between the film and TV industry being run by 'Jews' -- and those 'Jews' staffing universities -- and M. I can't help finding your post rather offensive in that matter... Or am I missing something ? HALIP Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Fri, Mar 05, 1999 at 19:12:34 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: HALIP Subject: Family discount Message: Shalom Halip, Yes it was just a joke. I'm a yid so I'm allowed a little room, they say, to poke a little fun. Actually, here the fun was all aimed at anti-semitic sentiments like those SHP shared with us recently. The 'campus' reference meant Maharaji's 'campus' and I really do remember, for what it's worth, that there seemed to be a slightly larger jewish contingent amongst premies than would be proportional in the gen/pop. I was just fucking around with stereotypes. No particular reason. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Fri, Mar 05, 1999 at 22:56:17 (EST)
From: Miloochie Email: None To: Jim Subject: Family discount Message: It's an odd thing...I was a bit shocked when an associate gave me a book entitled, 'An Empire Of Their Own' -- Subtitled: How the Jews Invented Hollywood. It's by Neal Gabler, from Crown Publishers. I've yet to read it, even though I've had it for many years. Maybe I will now. As for the humor, you seem to like to live on the edge Jim. I wondered how many got to your post that reveals you're Jewish after reading the first one. And Family discount? Here's Woody Allen from the movie, 'The Front': 'My father used to beat me for buying retail.' Miloochie - 'Some of my best ex-wives are Jewish.' ;-) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Sun, Mar 07, 1999 at 16:14:42 (EST)
From: HALIP Email: None To: Jim Subject: ALL in the family... Message: Shalom to you, Jim Ouf, as we say here(which transtlates by... er... ouf?), t'was just a joke!... It got me worried, there, for a while ! After all THEY done to MY people... (well, OUR people !) Merci for the clearing up ! HALIPstein (gee, I'm rather fond of these exclamation marks, there's one on each and every sentence !!!! Must be that French enthusiasm and passion, doubled with that jewish extraverted strike in me !!!) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Fri, Mar 05, 1999 at 05:28:36 (EST)
From: Neville Email: None To: Gail Subject: TVO Documentary on the Lard Message: What do I think? I think you're quite desperate amd need to get laid as soon as possible! And then take a long look at your thinking. yours, Neville Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Fri, Mar 05, 1999 at 10:27:59 (EST)
From: Garth Email: None To: Gail Subject: TVO Documentary on the Lard Message: Wonderful concept - nothing deflates the charlatan so much as ridicule in a public forum and the resultant laughter could help some of the necessary healing. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Fri, Mar 05, 1999 at 18:54:05 (EST)
From: Helen Email: None To: Neville Subject: TVO Documentary on the Lard Message: Yup, getting laid is the answer to everything. That'll cure whatever ails a person, whatever concerns they have about anything. That's a real moronic answer, Neville. Very offensive in particular to women. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Fri, Mar 05, 1999 at 21:25:47 (EST)
From: Nim Email: None To: Neville Subject: TVO Documentary on the Lard Message: What do I think? I think you're quite desperate amd need to get laid as soon as possible! Well, my, my,my. Aren't we special. Talking about desperation, Neville. Just the mention of some television exposure for your mahafuckie, and you're beginning to sing a duet with your sphincters already. Yep, it must really be tough being a pwk these days. BTW, Neville, thanks for showing us all with that statement above what an absolute asshole m really is. It's always so precious to see how he's reflected so clearly in the twisted dribble that comes out of the mouths of shitheads like yourself. Keep up the good work. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Sun, Mar 07, 1999 at 09:12:31 (EST)
From: Katie Email: None To: Neville Subject: Sheesh, Neville! Message: You wrote to Gail - What do I think? I think you're quite desperate amd need to get laid as soon as possible! And then take a long look at your thinking. I found this remark extremely offensive, both to Gail in particular and to women in general. Gail seems to come in for a lot of this type of personal attack on the forum - perhaps because she's an outspoken and strong woman - is this threatening to you? To put it bluntly, your implication here is that 'getting laid' will make women more submissive and amenable to suggestion by men. This is totally off the wall, as is your assumption about Gail (how do YOU know anything about her, may I ask?) However, your remark does reveal a lot about YOU - and it's quite unflattering, to say the least. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Sun, Mar 07, 1999 at 13:37:52 (EST)
From: Gerry Email: None To: Katie Subject: Sheesh, Neville! Message: Katie, What was wrong with what Neville said? It sounded like some practical and kind advise to me... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Sun, Mar 07, 1999 at 18:58:02 (EST)
From: Katie Email: None To: Gerry Subject: Sheesh, Gerry! Message: Uh, Gerry, maybe you need to talk to your wife about this one. I'm assuming you're TRYING to get into trouble here, and I'm just not into it right now :) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Sun, Mar 07, 1999 at 19:25:30 (EST)
From: gerry Email: None To: Katie Subject: Sheesh, Gerry! Message: Aw Katie, you saw through me again... :-) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Fri, Mar 05, 1999 at 22:25:15 (EST)
From: Miloochie Email: None To: Gail Subject: TVO Documentary on the Lard Message: Gail. This one has been going through (excuse me) my mind for many years. Then I stumble here and you can just guess what I've been thinking ever since -- daily. It's my field. The whole nine yards. If you can't get an interest at TVO, let's connect. I don't know how to do that (connecting) at this point without giving out my email and I'm not sure if I'm ready to do that here. I'm more net challenged and ignorant of the privacy issues than anything else, but I'm not stupid either. Nor paranoid, but exposing the lot has inherent real dangers. That's just reality. 'Too much at risk for those exposed and some others who'd 'die for their Lord.' Either way...go for it (pitching TVO). It's time. And there's no risks in just pitching it (calling them). Like any decent docu, it's the whole story and both sides should get shown/told. Let the viewer decide for themselves. Where do I see it? PBS's Frontline (and that allows for other distribution channels as well). Miloochie (starting to come out of the cult closet) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Thurs, Mar 04, 1999 at 18:17:00 (EST)
From: Curious Email: None To: Everyone Subject: why a fake? Message: Why do you see M as a fake? He's always delivered on his offer to me. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Thurs, Mar 04, 1999 at 18:22:29 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Curious Subject: I don't want to traumatize you Message: or anything, but the reason you think m's delivered is that you forgot what you ordered. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Thurs, Mar 04, 1999 at 20:59:58 (EST)
From: Curious Email: None To: Jim Subject: I don't want to traumatize you Message: Not traumatized, thanks. I remember exactly what I ordered. See below. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Thurs, Mar 04, 1999 at 18:25:48 (EST)
From: Gail Email: None To: Curious Subject: Really? So he's still the Message: Lord of the Universe, eh. How about the light brighter than 10 000 suns? What, exactly has he done for you. Are you content and fulfilled. If so, why are you here? How about the driving force for money all the time? Are you as anxious to promote this thing to others as you once were? How about the fact there is great shrinkage in the flock rather than growth over the last 19 years. If he's fulfilled his promises, don't you think a few more premies would have stuck around? I know that I stayed way too long out of a sense of guilt and obligation to MJ. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Thurs, Mar 04, 1999 at 19:23:41 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: Curious Subject: let's put it a different way Message: Curious: exactly why do you think that 'he' is 'delivering' anything to you? What makes you think that it's not coming from and to YOU? To answer your question: I've found that he didn't 'deliver' on ANY of the promises that he made to ME! World Peace? Feed all the people? Liberation? God consciousness? etc, etc.... NO TO ALL OF THEM! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Thurs, Mar 04, 1999 at 20:31:56 (EST)
From: Marlboro Email: None To: Mike Subject: let's put it a different way Message: Did ya stand up to him look him in the eyes and say 'your my lord of the universe' HELL NO, you said 'OUR lord of the universe' WE, US . Kind of silly and when you clasp your hands or arms together walk up a man say 'Give it to us' Its like you never where even there. Yes, a man, didn't you hate saying 'ALL HAIL TO CESAR' of course you did, you couldn't stop, and in the meantime the premies kept dripping on ya. You being so called intellectual I will drop some of the niceties , screw the premies, and the ex-premies all you guys. It is just not what it is or was about. Its about you. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Thurs, Mar 04, 1999 at 23:27:36 (EST)
From: Freewheeling Email: None To: Marlboro Subject: let's put it a different way Message: M'boro: Re:Did ya stand up to him look him in the eyes and say 'your my lord of the universe' HELL NO, you said 'OUR lord of the universe' I don't recall having ever looked him in the eyes, for one thing. Frankly it never ocurred to me to think in terms of 'mine' or 'our.' I never felt a sense of ownership, either individual or collective. What are you talking about? Yes, a man, didn't you hate saying 'ALL HAIL TO CESAR' of course you did, you couldn't stop, and in the meantime the premies kept dripping on ya. I don't know what you're trying to say here, so can't really comment on it. It makes me think you do not have the slightest idea what we're talking about. What impulse causes you to have such an emotional reaction to something so clearly outside your experience? Is there something you're not telling us? You being so called intellectual I will drop some of the niceties , screw the premies, and the ex-premies all you guys. It is just not what it is or was about. WHAT isn't what IT is about???? You wouldn't have a grudge about something would you? You don't like Mike, perhaps? Or do you just hate all astrophysicists? Or just ex-premie astro-physicists? Say, you aren't the Marlboro man are you? Take a deep breath. Its about you. Well, that helps a lot. Thanks. FW Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Fri, Mar 05, 1999 at 07:40:24 (EST)
From: Mel bourne Email: None To: everyone Subject: Eye contact Message: Freewheeling said... I don't recall having ever looked him in the eyes, for one thing I do... it was my first Darshan (in 1975). Absolute magic!! Any other memories of eye contact with M? Mel Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Fri, Mar 05, 1999 at 10:21:42 (EST)
From: Freewheeling Email: None To: Mel bourne Subject: Eye contact Message: MB: [in reference to 'lack of eye contact' comment] I do... it was my first Darshan (in 1975). Absolute magic!! Any other memories of eye contact with M? Again, I refer you to Diane Sawyer's excellent set of interviews with the Manson women. They frequently talked about having blissful eye contact with Charlie, recognizing now that it was just a means of controlling them. I would suggest the 'magic' was all on your side of the fence. I don't suppose you're familiar with the concept of 'magical thinking?' FW Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Fri, Mar 05, 1999 at 10:31:09 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Freewheeling Subject: Manson and Magical Thinking Message: FW: Nice to hear from you. I found that Sawyer interview with the Manson women and found the similarity to Maharaji worship overwhelming. I mean, really, check this out: Before, every day was like: 'Now my prince 'will' come to awaken me from this nightmare', or perhaps today I will discover the magic formula that nobody knows. Now, everything is as simple as when I was a child. Expectations are over, waiting is over, because I have been placed in 'always being' and am eternally grateful! Amazing, eh? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Fri, Mar 05, 1999 at 13:16:58 (EST)
From: G's mom Email: None To: Mel bourne Subject: Eye contact my turn Message: The year is 1976. I am a devoted premie, I am attending a program in Denver and staying at an ashram in Denver as a guest. I am 14. I am a big geek. My mom dropped me off in Denver but with my mom and my sister we first go downtown to the famous Kittredge building to do a little sightseeing. How I talked my mom into this I do not recall I am sure she was humoring me. I run into a friend who is just outside the Kittregde building seeming to be waiting for something. I introduce him to my mom and little sister. My friend is antsy and seems disconcerted that he is having this chat at this moment. He says, stand right there, MAHARAJ JI is coming!!!! We stand, I am brimming with excitement. The entourage arrives, the Divine M walks past, my mom says ( she is not a premie ) and not so quietly, 'he's so short!'....she only said what my evil mind was thinking, having never seen him off a pedestal before. The M made eye contact with me. He read my mind, 'he is so short' he read...he may have heard my mom say it too! I read his mind, 'what a geeky teenage girl, I need better security.' I felt bad for my friend, it was not his fault, we just happened to show up at the wrong/right time. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Fri, Mar 05, 1999 at 21:05:54 (EST)
From: Mel Bourne Email: mbvictoria@hotmail.com To: G's mom Subject: More eye contact Message: Hi In response to FW …I would suggest the 'magic' was all on your side of the fence This is quite possibly true As far as the Manson parallel is concerned; I only had this type of eye contact once, and have never had eye contact with M again, (seemed to me he wasn’t interested in looking me in the eye anymore). So there’s none of this daily “blissful” eye contact that Charlie’s Angels were referring to. In response to G’s Mom Are you serious about this reading of minds business ? I think that it is very easy to project our insecurities and thoughts onto M in situations similar to the one you mention. I've certainly caught myself doing it on occassions! You were obviously surprised at how short he was ( I think everyone’s probably thought this on their first encounter with M) and at the same time you were insecure about being “geeky”. Probably, Maharaji didn’t even notice! Mel Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Fri, Mar 05, 1999 at 21:41:41 (EST)
From: Freewheeling Email: None To: Mel Bourne Subject: More eye contact Message: MB: Point taken about the infrequency of eye contact. However, that does not mean it wasn't a control trip for him... just not as extensive. Maybe ego trip is more like it. You were susceptible and he just jacked you up. I did have eye contact with the guy on a flight to Jamaica in '74 (I think). I was not wearing any shoes, and thought he gave me a rather stern look. Like, my appearance was any of his business. I experienced the conventional giddiness, as we all have. But, to tell the truth I don't think he's in the same class with Manson. He's not overtly evil or anything. Just no good. Like my Omega Seamaster. A lot of hype, but can't give the correct time. FW Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Sat, Mar 06, 1999 at 11:35:02 (EST)
From: g's mom Email: None To: Mel Bourne Subject: I agree.. Message: I have no idea what he was thinking. But that is what I was thinking...more likely he was thinking about my mom...'I cannot believe that lady just said I am short!' Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Sun, Mar 07, 1999 at 10:43:03 (EST)
From: Marlboro Email: None To: Freewheeling Subject: let's put it a different way Message: Wasn't going to read any replies, knew I was going to be taken absolutely literal, and every word anal...lized What the hell.......I'm was curious. congratulations I scanned your post, nice parse. Cough cough hack! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Mon, Mar 08, 1999 at 15:29:57 (EST)
From: Freewheeling Email: None To: Marlboro Subject: any way that makes sense, pls Message: Marlboro: I scanned your post, nice parse. Cough cough hack! And thanks for helping us understand your complex and profound thoughts. So... you have the flu? What? FW Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Thurs, Mar 04, 1999 at 20:21:16 (EST)
From: Zac Email: None To: Curious Subject: Who do you think he is? Message: Perfect Master of the time? Indian Businessman? Opportunist? Servant of humanity? Divine human being? Your question is too vague. Of course, if your too specific Jim may jump down your throat. But it's a tentative question you've asked but we can't read minds here. Tell us what your thinking. You wanted a feel good meditation to take home and you got it. You wanted a lord and master? He promised you a vacation destination to a warm weather climate every year and he's delivered? You always wanted a watch with a swan on it and now you have one. He's delivered. My question was and is 'What the hell is this all about?' Maybe you can enlighten me? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Thurs, Mar 04, 1999 at 20:57:43 (EST)
From: Curious Email: None To: Zac Subject: Who do you think he is? Message: He offered Knowledge, free of charge. Got it. He said it was a wonderful internal experience, available to me always, at my own discretion. It is. He said he would continue to inspire me to practice, and to remember that this lovely feeling exists inside me. He has. He said practicing was my choice, and that I should judge it on its own merits. It is, and I have and am. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Thurs, Mar 04, 1999 at 21:08:27 (EST)
From: Curious George Email: None To: Curious Subject: Who do you think he is? Message: He said he would continue to inspire me to practice, and to remember that this lovely feeling exists inside me If the practise of Knowledge is so wonderful, why do you need to be 'encouraged' to do it? Either it isn't all that wonderful or M has another reason for wanting to 'stay in touch.' Now what could that be, I wonder? Anything to do with Visa cards and bank accounts? How else can you explain his sumptuous lifestyle. Oh, I forgot, his ''inventions.'' Man, are you a sucker. You could have gotten decent meditation instructions out of a book, and get the group high by doing a little public service. But no, you have to join your little cult with its Perfect Master, be the elitists, so much better and higher than everyone else. Grrrrrr Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Thurs, Mar 04, 1999 at 21:41:05 (EST)
From: Curious Email: None To: Curious George Subject: Who do you think he is? Message: So, you don't appreciate encouragement to practice your good habits? Then I guess I'm different from you. And as for meditation instructions from a book -- well, I used to read books about singing, and they helped a little. Then I started studying with a singing teacher and I got a lot better. (And it was fun to have somebody to sing with, too.) I paid my singing teacher, and I don't pay M, and Knolwedge is even better than singing. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Fri, Mar 05, 1999 at 10:26:17 (EST)
From: Jerry Email: None To: Curious Subject: Who do you think he is? Message: So, you don't appreciate encouragement to practice your good habits? Knowledge is a good habit that you need to develop? I thought it was just supposed to be a means to get in touch with that beautiful feeling inside. Now, if it does that (which for me it didn't) then why do you need to get into the 'habit' of practising it? I would think that if something made you feel that good you'd have to learn to tear yourself away from it rather than discipline yourself to practise it. It makes no sense what you're saying, Curious. Can't you see that? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Fri, Mar 05, 1999 at 10:37:41 (EST)
From: Freewheeling Email: None To: Jerry Subject: Who do you think he is? Message: Jerry: Knowledge is a good habit that you need to develop? I thought it was just supposed to be a means to get in touch with that beautiful feeling inside. Now, if it does that (which for me it didn't) then why do you need to get into the 'habit' of practising it? I would think that if something made you feel that good you'd have to learn to tear yourself away from it rather than discipline yourself to practise it. I'm not sure I agree with this, in principle. I love bike riding, but often have to find some motivation to get off my ass. Memory of the experience helps, usually but not always. Nothing is so juicy that it's all automatic, except sex, pizza, and chocolate chips of course. My argument would be that M is a crappy motivator. FW Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Fri, Mar 05, 1999 at 13:12:37 (EST)
From: Jerry Email: None To: Freewheeling Subject: Who do you think he is? Message: Nothing is so juicy that it's all automatic, except sex, pizza, and chocolate chips of course. Knowledge is supposed to be 10 times, a million times better than all these pleasures combined. If that's the case, it should be a million times more automatic Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Fri, Mar 05, 1999 at 13:45:42 (EST)
From: Freewheeling Email: None To: Jerry Subject: Mega E.D. Message: Jerry: Knowledge is supposed to be 10 times, a million times better than all these pleasures combined. If that's the case, it should be a million times more automatic Shit, if it were a million times more enjoyable than sex, cookies and pizza I'd never get anything done. Truth is, it's more like watching paint dry. Then again, maybe the erectile dysfunction is a million times worse. FW Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Fri, Mar 05, 1999 at 16:14:21 (EST)
From: Jerry Email: None To: Freewheeling Subject: Mega E.D. Message: Shit, if it were a million times more enjoyable than sex, cookies and pizza I'd never get anything done. Ahhh, but to proponents of Knowledge this is exactly what it is. Its even greater than this, a million times greater. There's no fucking end to how great this bullshit Knowledge is. I'll never figure it. I haven't the foggiest notion what people who rave about Knowledge are talking about. Its alien to me. I suppose I must be just as alien to them for not having the experience. Can people really be that different when it comes to something like this? According to Maharaji, no. To him, there's only one experience that this Knowledge provides. Endless bliss. And because I believed in HIM so deeply, I also believed that he was telling the truth when saying this. Now I see he was lying (or to be fair, mistaken). Maybe for some people this K is all that. But its not for everybody. People must be built REAL different from each other if Knowledge can have such a drastically different effect depending on whose practicing it. I find that kind of freaky. Truth is, it's more like watching paint dry. Nah, watching paint dry is much more interesting. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Sat, Mar 06, 1999 at 01:31:44 (EST)
From: Nurse Jenny Email: None To: Jerry Subject: Mega E.D. Message: Nah, watching paint dry is much more interesting. Nah, curing Mega E.D. is much more interesting! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Fri, Mar 05, 1999 at 16:52:31 (EST)
From: Neville Email: None To: Freewheeling Subject: Who do you think he is? Message: 'My argument would be that M is a crappy motivator.' FW Exactly. That's why so many people have stuck with him for 15, 19, 25, 28 years. And why others, like you, are chattering about him 20 years later like Butumbo monkeys, stuck in a very strange tree and having a nice, nasty little virtual cult of your own. How many people have YOU motivated to do anything worthwhile in your life? And for how long? Neville Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Fri, Mar 05, 1999 at 20:40:41 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Neville Subject: Hoisted on your own petard Message: That's why so many people have stuck with him for 15, 19, 25, 28 years. Go by the numbers, Neville. How many came? How many stayed? This is not a very promising tack for you, bud. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Fri, Mar 05, 1999 at 21:57:15 (EST)
From: Freewheeling Email: None To: Neville Subject: Who do you think he is? Message: Nev: How many people have YOU motivated to do anything worthwhile in your life? And for how long? It's not appropriate to toot your own horn, but my partner was on the Coleman Commission. Want to compare your guru to James Coleman? How about Gunnar Myrdal? Want more comparisons? I know others who are currently 'online,' but am reluctant to give their names for fear they'd be embarassed. No, Goomradgi doesn't make much of a showing in that league. What you call 'anything worthwhile in your life' is pretty ideosyncratic, to say the least. What have any of these people done, exactly? FW Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Fri, Mar 05, 1999 at 10:46:54 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Jerry Subject: important point, this raises Message: Jerry, You're absolutely right. If k was so gall-darned enjoyable, m could just sit back and take orders. Drug dealers that have the 'dope shit' don't have to keep reminding their customers to come back. Lovers don't need to keep encouraging each other to have sex. But, it's a little different with k. Remember how we had to constantly deal with the fact that we often just didn't want to meditate? Of course, the real us did. That was an indisputable concept we never held. But sometimes our minds just weren't into it. That, for me, was the constant 'proof' that the mind, as described by m, the mischievous alien entity possessing us all a) existed and b) wasn't looking out for our best interests. After all, if you dragged yourself screaming down for meditation, you did indeed sometimes have a good time after a while. It felt good to just zone out and imagine whatever beautiful thing you inevitably might about life, m and the universe. It only made sense, then, that the mind was up to no good, trying to discourage one from drinking from such a sweet, sweet well. Now, what was that all about? Anything else in life I enjoy I don't have to persuade myself to do. Why does cutting off your outside stimulation meet with such resistance? Oh, this time I'm looking for the real answer. Any ideas anyone? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Fri, Mar 05, 1999 at 11:40:34 (EST)
From: John Email: None To: Jim Subject: It's all explained within Message: Dear Brother: I am encouraged by your search for truth. So, here's the deal: There is a war going on between God and the devil. The devil has taken possession of our minds. Actually, the devil has had possession for millenniums. God comes in human form to give humans the secret gift which is what we need to free ourselves from the spell the mind has put us under. Now, the thing is, like you say, it's a constant battle to actually make ourselves take advantage of 'this precious gift'. That's because the war is still waging. God didn't dis-arm the devil, God just gave us a weapon so we now have a fighting chance. The devil still has free access to us through our minds and so we are still susceptible to the devil's will. The war still wages even fiercer than ever before. Now do you understand? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Fri, Mar 05, 1999 at 12:08:10 (EST)
From: Garth Email: None To: Jim Subject: important point, this raises Message: Could the answer be simply that, as human beings, we are dependent on the five senses for input and, as everything else in life that we enjoy depends on the senses to perceive it, cutting ourselves off from outside stimuli is emotionally uncomfortable for us? Actually, that's the same thing as saying 'it's the mind', isn't it. Yet there's a grain of truth in M's emphasis on control of one's mind; (and, of course, his control of yours over-rides your own)that's the seduction. Most kinds of discipline involve a focusing of the mind on a specific task, from lawyering to karate. M's 'discipline' is not a focus but a lack of it, an opening up of the mind to whatever evil influence happens to be in the neighbourhood, usually it. His meditation is drifting not focused, because, I believe, his process stops at the stage of relaxing the body, which is only a pre-cursor to actual meditation or sustained concentration, for which the relaxing stage allows you to gather your resources. Whether this strategy is calculated on his part or simple ignorance I don't know. In any case, like any discipline, it requires motivation to do it and since it leads nowhere it never allows the practitioner to find their own reason to do it, (no long-term fulfillment) it always needs outside encouragement from a perceived authority, M. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Fri, Mar 05, 1999 at 12:14:04 (EST)
From: gerry Email: None To: Garth Subject: important point, this raises Message: Excellent post, Garth, nicely said. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Fri, Mar 05, 1999 at 12:17:18 (EST)
From: Rick Email: None To: Jim Subject: important point, this raises Message: Jim, This is the second time I have to put your faulty logic in line, in two days. Come on, man. Fortunately, I don't need to convince you that I don't believe knowledge exists. On the other hand, I do get some benefit from meditation. The fact that people resist it, and that it takes discipline, doesn't provide evidence that speaks to it's lack of value. I think the idea is that it's 'good for you', more than 'it's enjoyable'. Now, things that are good for you are notorious for not necessarily being desirable. Remember vegetables as a kid? Okay, how about exercise? I resist like a motherfucker, doing exercise, but once I get moving it feels great. How about braces? Did you ever wear braces on your teeth? Imagine all the bootie that was procured from good orthodontal work. And here's the kicker... the reason sitting in meditation creates resistance is that it eliminates the distractions we normally use, to keep from our unpleasant feelings. So, although meditation can be pleasant, it can also result in feeling emotions we squash down. Sometimes, when I want to put a crossbow through my boss's tush, I don't even realize it till I meditate. At work, I have to keep all that messy stuff under wraps. Anyway, just my hit on it. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Fri, Mar 05, 1999 at 12:25:06 (EST)
From: Gerry Email: None To: Rick Subject: important point, this raises Message: Rick, Maybe I've had the wrong idea about meditation my whole life. Is it sitting there sorting out your feelings and bringing up repressed thoughts? I had the idea it was some sort of a internal cosmic circus, not unlike LSD. But I guess I got that idea from M, remember the ''LSD inside'' satsang?. This meditation thing and what people experience has me baffled. OK so maybe I lacked the discipline to keep doin it when nothing 'happened.' But certainly Jerry stuck to it for years and he experienced very little. This is a puzzle to me and I would like to hear what others (successful meditatiors) think about this. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Fri, Mar 05, 1999 at 23:45:52 (EST)
From: Miloochie Email: None To: Gerry Subject: important point, this raises Message: This is a puzzle to me and I would like to hear what others (successful meditatiors) think about this. What's almost bizarre for me is that now I'm conciously dropping all ties with M (they've been hardwired mental connections because of no active participation in years) and everything M, his crowd, BS stood for...and what's happening??? I'm meditating, either formally or just nectar/word anywhere I go, doing whatever and it's smooth as silk! It's working very well. Dramatically better than it ever did. The whole thing is making sense to me now. It immediately relaxes me...I become more focused on what I'm accomplishing and feel much better all 'round. It has clear, obvious results on people around me (because of my state of mind) who react to me calmer, more cooperatively and even affectionately. I'm laughing more and more...looser, etc. I'm finding what I need to do next, my personal direction, REAL service to this world, etc. is coming to me with clean, clear clarity and speed. NOW...having 'shared' that...please know that I'm also in the middle of separating what might be still 'Pavlov's Dog.' What I'm going through is not black and white or easy to communicate at this point. It's fairly complex to come to clear conclusions for myself or be able to relate such to others. That will take some more time. The kicker is that it's not taking ANY EFFORT now that my 'house of cards' with M and his programming/promises/BS has finally hit the floor with a thud. Meditating now is just my true self coming through more. (SINGING) 'I can see clearly now I'm an EX-premie...all of the bad feelings have...............' ;-) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Sat, Mar 06, 1999 at 01:11:12 (EST)
From: bb-I got that effect also Email: None To: Miloochie Subject: Miloochie! (NT) Message: vdsneni Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Sat, Mar 06, 1999 at 22:23:40 (EST)
From: Gerry Email: None To: Miloochie Subject: important point, this raises Message: Mil, That's sounds great! It's sort of what I imagined it would be, but never experienced. Thanks. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Mon, Mar 08, 1999 at 10:49:10 (EST)
From: Helen Email: None To: Miloochie Subject: Miloochie; Read this Message: In my opinion, don't worry if it's Pavlov's Dog, biofeedback is Pavlov's Dog, too. If it relaxes you, go for it! As long as you're not credting GM with the experience anymore, that is! And you're not, so, just enjoy it! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Mon, Mar 08, 1999 at 13:24:26 (EST)
From: Miloochie Email: None To: Helen Subject: thanks Helen...(nt) Message: That helps. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Fri, Mar 05, 1999 at 12:40:44 (EST)
From: John Email: None To: Rick Subject: important point, this raises Message: Rick, I like some of your logic, but, I'm not sure... Let's take learning a musical instrument. I mean, hells bells, there is nothing fun about forcing your fingers to learn guitar chords. But the difference is that there is an obvious pay off resulting from learning to play music. And it's not one that appeals to everybody because many people go through all the effort of learning an instrument, and yet never continue becuase there is no pay off for them. There is no instrinsic enjoyment for them in playing the instrument and so they stop. Now with meditation, there would have to be a payoff for one to continue, right? Why is it that many people have tried meditation, but the pay off just isnt there for them to stick with it? I mean, given the fact that this is the most precious of all human gifts etc.? Did I just ask the same quesiton Jim asked? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Fri, Mar 05, 1999 at 13:25:29 (EST)
From: Rick Email: None To: John Subject: important point, this raises Message: John and Gerry, Obviously, the 'most precious gift' bullshit has to be put to rest with divine interpretations. Also, the 'if this, then that' hypothesis should probably be ditched. It's like Jim's notion that if people are 'honking' at you, it means you're going 'the wrong way' (except when he gets a flurry of honks--then it's their confusion). The fact that many people have tried meditation and stopped could be the result of many things, and I think you're right that it means meditation isn't a universal gadget like say, our urinary tracts. But there could be practical reasons why meditation doesn't work for some people. The most common I've seen is a lack of interest. No interest means no payoff. Just like a good book, it's only good if you like it. So the question is, what is interesting in meditation? Some people, like premies, tell themselves big fat lies about God and 'precious', and blah, blah, blah. We know from our days as premies, that most of those people fell asleep at their barragons. I think the reason is that they started to feel something (some niggling feeling like worry, or anger, or criticism towards someone). But the point is that if you unplug from outside stimulation, the stuff inside you gets louder. The question is, is there anything to be gained from that? Most people are interested if what they're feeling is good, but life holds more than just good feelings. When stuff they don't like starts to happen they either fall asleep or stop. I think sometimes it's good to force oneself to get more in touch with feelings we're encouraged to avoid or forget. Cutting off outside stimulation by meditating will do that if you're interested (at least that's my theory). And if you can stay there long enough, or do it enough times, some of that stuff with all the divine exaggerations will happen. Whether the 'good stuff' is the goal or even worth the effort is another story. Ironically, I think the bad stuff is definitely worth the effort... sort of like removing a splinter. But in this case it would be a splinter of repressed emotion. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Fri, Mar 05, 1999 at 14:04:13 (EST)
From: John Email: None To: Rick Subject: Please explain bro Message: 'I think sometimes it's good to force oneself to get more in touch with feelings we're encouraged to avoid or forget. Cutting off outside stimulation by meditating will do that if you're interested (at least that's my theory).' Rick babe, what the hell are you talking about? Meditate to feel repressed feelings? I swear I never found that to do any good. If I sit down to meditate and I remember what so and so said and how stupid so and so is, and why didn't I say this to so and so ... blah blah blah, then it's pure torture! I mean, I used to sit in meditation and all kinds of angry feelings would flood my consciousness. You know what's funny is that in the years that I followed the guru, he never mentioned what you're supposed to do about that. According to him, it was just so beautiful, and it was always there, blah blah blah. But anyway, what else do you do to make this processing of repressed feelings actually work. Cause again, I have never experienced anything but pain. I have found talking to be the most effective way to get to the bottom of repressed feelings. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Fri, Mar 05, 1999 at 14:30:19 (EST)
From: Rick Email: None To: John Subject: Please explain bro Message: Yeah, stuff plays back in your mind and don't you feel anything when that happens? Maybe the hamster just really brainwashed me thoroughly, because doing the light and music techniques provide a segue between those thoughts that play back in my head and what my deep reaction is to them. It makes me 'get a grip', rather than just tailspinning in reaction all the time. Listen John, I'm not exactly a model citizen. Maybe you'd do better to ignore me. I used to be in a cult. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Fri, Mar 05, 1999 at 15:39:50 (EST)
From: Jerry Email: None To: Rick Subject: important point, this raises Message: I think sometimes it's good to force oneself to get more in touch with feelings we're encouraged to avoid or forget. Cutting off outside stimulation by meditating will do that if you're interested (at least that's my theory). Rick, I agree that pinpointing what's troubling you is very important. I don't agree that meditaton is a means to that. While I've often experienced troubled emotions while meditating, that didn't help to underline what was causing them. Scientists studying human emotions agree that there are neural networks in the brain causing feelings but, at the same time, are not giving consciousness access to the cause of these feelings. In other words much of what we feel we can't account for. Its beyond us. I know for myself this is very true. If meditation could expand my awareness to understand the cause of these emotions, I would say it had a genuine value but it doesn't. Just getting in touch with feelings isn't enough. You have to know why those feelings are there. Like John mentioned, its interesting that Maharaji never addressed this issue. To him its just soooooo beautiful. I wonder. Is it really? If, for him it is, he and I live on different planets. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Fri, Mar 05, 1999 at 15:51:12 (EST)
From: John Email: None To: Jerry Subject: important point, this raises Message: I really wish, when I am in the middle of some petty or very real negative emotion, I could simply follow my breath and voila! be transported high above the negativity to a place of peace. As a matter of fact, if it did that, then I would worship M as a deity! But it never did that. And dear premies, if any of you say I just didn't practice hard enough, then I will laugh uproariously. C'mon please I dare you! I need a good laugh today. (though g's mom 'crack' about the horse's ass was great!) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Fri, Mar 05, 1999 at 15:53:51 (EST)
From: Rick Email: None To: Jerry Subject: important point, this raises Message: So what you're saying is that meditation can't do everything but it can do something? If it can help a person be aware of feelings it might provide some benefit. There are other means of completing the process. No? Regarding the hamster... yeah, it's beautiful for him. He thinks he's God and thousands confirm it. That's alot of strokes. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Fri, Mar 05, 1999 at 16:53:08 (EST)
From: Jerry Email: None To: Rick Subject: important point, this raises Message: So what you're saying is that meditation can't do everything but it can do something? If it can help a person be aware of feelings it might provide some benefit. There are other means of completing the process. No? Rick, Knowledge isn't supposed to help a person be aware of feelings. Its supposed to take us to that beautiful place deep within us. If its true value is something else, why isn't it being touted as that? Its crazy. Another theory I have about negative feelings in meditation is that they're rooted in boredom. Meditation is a boring excercise. There's nothing interesting coming in through the senses and the inner phenomena, this 'light' and 'music' are nothing to get excited about and just what the hell 'nectar' is supposed to be is beyond me. And I can think of a lot more interesting things to do then following my breath. Only until you see, touch, hear, smell something that you like do you experience feelings which are pleasant to you. Otherwise, by default you feel empty. This seems likely to me. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Fri, Mar 05, 1999 at 17:08:53 (EST)
From: Rick Email: None To: Jerry Subject: important point, this raises Message: Jerry, Yes, sadly, the hamster's 'knowledge' doesn't exist. And it's true value is touted as something else (just not by the Lard himself); there are many interpretations of the value of meditation. The point of this discussion originated with Jim's idea that if meditating was valuable, there wouldn't be any resistance to doing it. Just because the hamster screwed things up doesn't mean there isn't any value to meditation. Meditation is about as interesting as vegetables to a kid. Just because something is boring doesn't mean it doesn't have nutrition. Something that is boring can become interesting if there are benefits. Take multiplication tables... very valuable, very boring to memorize. How about flossing your teeth? Not very exciting. Doing your laundry? I'm not saying meditation necessarily has intrinsic value. I'm saying that you can't judge it's value by saying 'if this, then that'. It could be boring and cause resistance, and still have value. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Fri, Mar 05, 1999 at 17:49:24 (EST)
From: Helen Email: None To: John/Rick Subject: important point, this raises Message: Rick, I'm glad I'm not the only one who sorts out problems, processes emotions, and thinks through problems while meditating. I often do the same thing while walking or while watching a film. I think meditation can be helpful if I do it my own way. the reason why I could never do it M's way is the HYPE--the 'purpose of your life is to realize this knowledge' stuff. The idea of REALIZING something is crazy anyway. I do agree with Rick that some things take discipline and effort at first, like getting to the gym, etc. I never had any discipline wherever meditating was concerned and do it only when I am motivated. That's why I was the worst premie on earth Helen Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Fri, Mar 05, 1999 at 13:09:54 (EST)
From: Jerry Email: None To: Jim Subject: important point, this raises Message: Now, what was that all about? Anything else in life I enjoy I don't have to persuade myself to do. Why does cutting off your outside stimulation meet with such resistance? Oh, this time I'm looking for the real answer. Any ideas anyone? My idea would be that practicing Knowledge is no big whoop to you. There are other things you'd rather be doing. I feel the same way. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Fri, Mar 05, 1999 at 15:55:11 (EST)
From: Freewheeling Email: None To: Jim Subject: important point, this raises Message: Jim: Now, what was that all about? Anything else in life I enjoy I don't have to persuade myself to do. Why does cutting off your outside stimulation meet with such resistance? Oh, this time I'm looking for the real answer. Any ideas anyone? Like I said, massive erectile dysfunction of the spiritual penis (or clitoris... same thing). FW Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Thurs, Mar 04, 1999 at 21:08:53 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Curious Subject: Curious? Hardly Message: He offered Knowledge, free of charge. Got it. Maharaji brags about being a 'successful private investor'. Kind of like Lord Chitanyia, if my Hindu mythology serves me right. (Wasn't it Chitanyia who started the first large mutual fund in India? Or was that Ramakrishna?) Anyway, where do you think he got the money to play? Here's a really simple question: how much money do you think Maharaji's received from premies since coming to the west in '71 (2?)? He said it was a wonderful internal experience, available to me always, at my own discretion. It is. He said he would continue to inspire me to practice, and to remember that this lovely feeling exists inside me. He has. He said practicing was my choice, and that I should judge it on its own merits. It is, and I have and am. He also said a lot of other things, bozo. But do you care? Of course not! You're in a cult. Repeat after me: 'I don't have to believe; I know. I have Guru Maharaj Ji's knowledge' (my favorite line from The Lord of the Universe. No, you're in a cult and anything you say here means nothing. You're just drooling over your keyboard, bro'. By the way, the question was 'Who do you think he is?' You never answered it. [I'm extremely sorry if I've caused you any pain. Please refer all concerns to our complaints department,] Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Thurs, Mar 04, 1999 at 21:45:24 (EST)
From: Mili Email: mili@cheerful.com To: Jim Subject: Curious? Hardly Message: Jim, Why do you always remind me of those inquisitors from the Dark Ages... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Thurs, Mar 04, 1999 at 21:54:39 (EST)
From: Curious Email: None To: Mili Subject: Curious? Hardly Message: He reminds you of them because he is like them. Have you read Arthur Miller's 'The Crucible' lately? 'She's a witch, so if she says she's not a witch, she must be lying. Burn her!' Sound familiar? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Thurs, Mar 04, 1999 at 21:51:10 (EST)
From: Curious Email: None To: Jim Subject: Curious? Hardly Message: No pain has been caused, thanks. First, how do you know I'm a bro? Assumption number one (maybe true, maybe not). Second, I'd like to point out to you that you're a classic narcissist, in the clinical sense. Your sense of self is so fragile that you have constructed an elaborate and very rigid view of the universe and your role in it in order to protect yourself, and when anyone challenges that view, you attack their existence rather than questioning your own beliefs. (E.g. 'No,, you're in a cult and anything you say here means nothing.') If I exist, if there is a possibility that my world view is valid, that's deeply threatening to you. In extreme narcissism, the patient can become physically violent, beating or even killling those who challenge him in order to vanquish the threatening world view. Thank god for virtual communication. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Thurs, Mar 04, 1999 at 21:56:49 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Curious Subject: Exactly! Message: Thank god for virtual communication. You took the words right out of my mouth. This isn't communication at all. It kind of looks like communication. Words go back and forth but, hey, you're in a cult and I'm not. What else can we say? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Thurs, Mar 04, 1999 at 22:05:40 (EST)
From: Curious Email: None To: Jim Subject: Exactly! Message: Well, what I could say, and will, is that it seems to me that you're in an incredibly constrained and rigid cult of your own making. In your cult, you're God (the ultimate authority and arbiter) and everybody who doesn't believe that is non-existent. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Thurs, Mar 04, 1999 at 22:11:00 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Curious Subject: Precisely! Message: Well, what I could say, and will, is that it seems to me that you're in an incredibly constrained and rigid cult of your own making. In your cult, you're God (the ultimate authority and arbiter) and everybody who doesn't believe that is non-existent. Actually, I'm the Devil. COMING TO GET YOU, PREMIE-JI! [The above is a lame joke and neither intended to be threatening or insensitive. It shouldn't be traumatic either although I imagine if you've been up for a few days straight, especially on drugs, it just might be enough to set you off. Hopefully not.] Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Thurs, Mar 04, 1999 at 23:48:56 (EST)
From: Freewheeling Email: None To: Curious Subject: Curious? Hardly Message: Kat Killer: He said it was a wonderful internal experience, available to me always, at my own discretion. It is. He said he would continue to inspire me to practice, and to remember that this lovely feeling exists inside me. He has. He said practicing was my choice, and that I should judge it on its own merits. It is, and I have and am. This is pretty stock. He gave you an experience that was already yours, and got paid for it. That's just good business. If you never paid him anything then you're a goldbrick. This experience was always available to you, at your discretion. Ask around. You'll see. It's not anyone's business what you think of 'it,' and no one is interested. Know why? You just caught your hand in the monkey jar. Don't kid US. Yeah, you're awfully special. FW Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Fri, Mar 05, 1999 at 09:48:12 (EST)
From: Garth Email: None To: Curious Subject: Are you really curious? Message: 'Second, I'd like to point out to you that you're a classic narcissist, in the clinical sense. Your sense of self is so fragile that you have constructed an elaborate and very rigid view of the universe and your role in it in order to protect yourself, and when anyone challenges that view, you attack their existence rather than questioning your own beliefs. If I exist, if there is a possibility that my world view is valid, that's deeply threatening to you. In extreme narcissism, the patient can become physically violent, beating or even killling those who challenge him in order to vanquish the threatening world view.' Seems to me you just described yourself, not Jim, in the first paragraph and the idea that you actually threaten anyone here is laughable. (incidentally, did you do a copy and paste direct from your local Book of Knowledge for the definition of narcissism?) The fact that K works for you has nothing to do with where it came from, unless you attribute the source with certain Divine qualities no-one else has. And if you do that, you are faced with the choice of either being the unquestioning cult member or subjecting the source to some scrutiny, which, in M's case, it will not bear up under. There is no third option. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Fri, Mar 05, 1999 at 07:37:47 (EST)
From: Zac Email: None To: Curious Subject: Turning the tables on Big M Message: You mean you just showed up one day ordered Knowledge with a small slice of devotion took it home and enjoyed your meal. No demeaning aspirant process, no guilt feelings about not contributing and not participating? Maybe knowledge is for you. Question: What is your experience of bringing a friend to an introductory video at your local hall? Do you feel comfortable introducing your friends to this? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Fri, Mar 05, 1999 at 12:32:19 (EST)
From: ex-mug Email: None To: Zac Subject: embarrassed Message: I was teaching at an inner city college a while back, and the other members of the faculty were really cool - good converstions and laughs etc.... Anyhow, a mailshot arrived one morning advertising a program for anyone interested in finding out about BM and k - and the venue was just along the way from the college. I had a think about whether or not to invite my colleagues along to this local program (this is when I was a mug)and decided that it would be just too embarrassing for words - an absolute insult to their intel. and a complete loss of my cred. in their eyes. The idea of inviting any thinking person to one of those events is now ludicrous to me. So, I just left it, and didn't even bother to go myself - as AJW would say, another 'drip' in the coagulation process, and shortly after that I formally became an ex-mug. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Fri, Mar 05, 1999 at 13:12:21 (EST)
From: Zac Email: None To: ex-mug Subject: embarrassed Message: Ex-mug- It took me longer but I'm so thankful I finally snapped out of it. Drip 1 - Can't, Wont, bring someone to hear about M. Reasons inane programs and see Drip 2. Drip 2 - Organization is way too crazy. I wouldn't subject a friend to it if they would receive a certified ticket to heaven from GOD himself. Drip 3 - Maharaji doesn't care about me or the rest of the premies otherwise he wouldn't subject us to drips 1 & 2. Drip 4 - Maharaji's 'Cult'ure is damaging to the individual. i.e. ME! Drip 5 - The underbelly of the whole scam being brought to light on this forum. Drip 6 - The response of Maharaji to the underbelly of the scam being brought to light on this forum. None. Drip 7 - Improvements in my personal quality of life since removing myself from his web. Jesus It's starting to rain in here and I have to back to work. Later All Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Thurs, Mar 04, 1999 at 17:23:42 (EST)
From: Mili Email: mili@cheerful.com To: Everyone Subject: Sympathy for the Devil Message: Look guys, you might think this is weird but I just want to say something on behalf of ol’ Jim here. He’s stuck it around for some time and regardless of whether you think he is off the wall or not, you do have to give him some credit for being consistent in arguing his convictions. He does go over the edge sometimes, but then again he’s taken a lot of punches aimed at below the belt himself so maybe he is doing nothing more than trying to get even. I should know, I’ve lost it and insulted and ridiculed him quite a few times myself in the past. I once told Jim that I’d rather have a good adversary than a lousy friend any day. I still think that’s true. Still, I don’t believe that the end should justify the means. Insulting people, spreading rumors and exposing private e-mails is just not a moral or rational way of arguing, right? A year ago I spent a lot of time on this forum, clarified a lot of things for myself (about the validity of the experience of Knowledge – sorry guys, it works for me) and met a lot of interesting people in the process. For me, Maharaji is a person who is dedicated to spreading the Knowledge. His personal life, be it rumor or fact is not particularly relevant to me. But he does talk about Knowledge with authority and that’s what counts. Master and Knowledge were around long before you or me were here, and they will definitely be around for a long time after we’re gone. A lifetime really is too short, and the years fly by like crazy. I’ve never really felt any harm from Maharaji or the Knowledge. But I have been thru some weird times through my association with premies (and ex-premies). It’s a pretty rowdy crowd, you know. Whenever my feelings were hurt, Maharaji and the Knowledge were the healing balm. The Knowledge itself is in fact pretty scientific. It lends itself wholly to the experimental method – try it (and you’ll like it!) Anyway, just wanted to invite everyone to check out my revamped homepage. Click here Regards, - Mili Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Thurs, Mar 04, 1999 at 17:30:21 (EST)
From: Brian Email: brian@ex-premie.org To: Mili Subject: I Fixed the Link, Mili Message: So I'm stealing this post to tell you. Is your Geocities page still online? BTW, nice to see you here again :) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Fri, Mar 05, 1999 at 04:50:44 (EST)
From: Mili Email: mili@cheerful.com To: Brian Subject: I Fixed the Link, Mili Message: Thanks, Brian. Wonder what happened there, though? I just copied everything from the clipboard - it looked OK, I thought the link would work, too. My Geocities page is still there, but I got tired of all their advertisments. Well, I kinda missed all you people - we're not all that different. I am not your perfect practicing premie either, you know. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Fri, Mar 05, 1999 at 10:22:38 (EST)
From: Katie Email: None To: Mili Subject: I Fixed the Link, Mili Message: Hi Mili - You wrote: Well, I kinda missed all you people - we're not all that different. I am not your perfect practicing premie either, you know. I was glad to see you back here too, and I do agree that we are not all that different. This is one thing I've learned from working on the site. I thought what you said about Jim was fair and honest. Also, I very much appreciate what you said to G's mom, although I do think there are further ramifications to THAT situation that reflect poorly on Maharaji. And, off-topic here, I find the pop-up ads on Geocities and Tripod to be very annoying. What I did on my Geocities site, since I didn't want to shell out the money for an ad-free site, was to install one of those 'Geoguides' at the BOTTOM of my pages. This is still an ad banner, but IMHO it's much less obtrusive, although more permanent. Also, I picked the Geocities option to run ads only suitable for children in order to eliminate the more obnoxious stuff. Hope you're enjoying springtime in Croatia - Take care, Katie Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Thurs, Mar 04, 1999 at 17:35:52 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Mili Subject: My first character witness Message: um... ah...thanks Mili.... yeah sure.. thanks. Besides defending me you make some pretty valid points: 1) Knowledge is scientific. All you gotta do is try it and see for yourself. Now what could be more scientific than that. (Yeah, I never really looked at it like that. I guess you could say everyone who receives k is a scientist. Hmm. Thanks.) 2) Masters have been here for a long time. So who are we to question their validity? (Excellent point!) 3) M's personal life means absolutely nothing to me. Nothing. Life's short, after all. No matter what he's done and who he's done it to, hey, it's not my problem! (I'm slowly coming around to appreciating this point. Give me a little more time, 'kay?) 4) Where others make boo boo's, Maharaji kisses and makes beter. (well, he's the master, isn't he?) Nice to hear from you Mili. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Thurs, Mar 04, 1999 at 17:58:52 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: Jim Subject: Ok Jim, I'll do it! Message: Mili: You said, 'No matter what he's done and who he's done it to, hey, it's not my problem!' THAT is so typical of the crap I hear from alot of premies: Hey, he didn't do it to me, so I don't give a damn what he did to you! Now there's a fulfilling philosophy of life!!!! Thank you for making it so clear how little you care for others. ;-( Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Thurs, Mar 04, 1999 at 18:14:45 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: Mili Subject: Addendum Message: Mili: Apparently I didn't quote YOU exactly, but that's still the way it comes across. How can premies read G's Mom's (jeez that's a tough one to say) story about personal abuse at the hands of Jagdeo, realize that M KNEW about it (and did NOTHING!) and then say that M is great? How can they say he is anything other than guilty of gross negligence in this regard? When are premies going to learn the simple fact that M doesn't give a damn about them? All he cares about is his material wealth.... THAT'S ALL! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Thurs, Mar 04, 1999 at 18:30:39 (EST)
From: Mili Email: mili@cheerful.com To: Mike Subject: Addendum Message: Mike, Are you SURE M knew about it and did nothing? Last I ever heard about Jagdeo some ten years ago was that he was 'retired' and lives in India. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Thurs, Mar 04, 1999 at 19:18:55 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: Mili Subject: Ask g's mom Message: Mili: Since the person that was abused is on the forum, I recommend that you ask her. Personally, her story rings absolutely true to me. Read her entry then ask her; you'll be hearing it directly from the source! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Thurs, Mar 04, 1999 at 19:25:24 (EST)
From: g's mom Email: None To: Mili Subject: Knew about it and did what? Message: Mili- I hope you will concede that he knew about it. Although I still do not want to name the first person I told he is a really well known premie and I had confirmation from the second person that he had already heard about it when she told him. Logic tells me he was told about the Unity School incident. Premie society did not function in such a way as that would have occured and the premies would have said, 'oh lets not worry Maharaj Ji's pretty little head about it'. He may well have done something, but whatever he might have done was not enough to stop it from occuring again. The Unity school thing had to happen before the thing happened with me. Also, the person I emailed with, who did not report it, it happened after Unity School as well and possibly after I reported it though I do not have exact dates to verify that 100%. What do we know was NOT done. Lots of ex's here were in positions of authority in communities, they were not warned. Jagdeo was still a Mahatma, initiator instructor...as these terms 'evolved'. I know he still was an usher or whatever you call it in the darshan line. JM saw him on a stage in India. All we know is whatever Rawat might have done was not enough to stop it from reoccuring. I wonder myself what he might have done...was Jagdeo even chastised or confronted about it in any way? Did he finally get enough reports he sent the guy to India. Were the Indian premies warned if he was? The other thing I wonder is why he did not do whatever he needed to do to stop him. Was Rawat afraid of Jagdeo? Did he think perhaps that he could scold him and it all would stop? ( that is assuming he did scold him...I do not even know if he did that). Did he think if he 'defrocked' him and sent him back to India that it would reflect badly upon himself? I do not get what he had to lose by putting a stop to it. Maybe Jagdeo was blackmailing him...who knows. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Thurs, Mar 04, 1999 at 20:05:08 (EST)
From: Mili Email: mili@cheerful.com To: g's mom Subject: Knew about it and did what? Message: You know, I hate to pass judgements on people, but I never really did like Jagdeo. Struck me as a heavily Indianized, devotional hardliner who put aspirants thru some heavy trips before receiving Knowledge. If what you say is true, and I believe it is, then cleaning toilets in Sant Yogashram for the rest of his life is too merciful a fate for the bastard. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Thurs, Mar 04, 1999 at 20:23:07 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Mili Subject: With great respect, Mili Message: I have to ask you what you'd think about Maharaji who left his 'saint' out in the field for so long after learning about his sexual proclivities? Now, if this question is the least bit discomforting you can either ignore it, pretend it's a slightly different, more comfortable question and answer that or, if all else fails, email Katie. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Thurs, Mar 04, 1999 at 21:02:39 (EST)
From: Mili Email: mili@cheerful.com To: Jim Subject: With great respect, Mili Message: You know, I am hardly the person who was ever in the 'inside' circle so I don't know much about this. The only thing I remember about Jagdeo is the severity with which he selected aspirants. Also, I happened to play tennis with him once and he was pretty upset when I whopped him some 3 sets in a row. You have to remember that M's first priority has always been spreading K, so that any initiator who is fondling pretty young cuties on the side is counterproductive and hardly tolerable. I think you are wrong in portraying M as being lenient in this respect. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Fri, Mar 05, 1999 at 07:50:21 (EST)
From: Zac Email: None To: Mili Subject: Lenient, I'd say so Message: Mili He may have gotten a tongue lashing from M, but he showed up in our community after these incidents and had total freedom. In fact when a respected (til this point) mahatma like jagdeo showed up he could direct the community in any manner he pleased. It bothers me that I was a part of a group that enabled that kind of behavior and I have no compunctions about posting about it on the web and making a HUGE deal about it. Knowledge can be a wonderful experience. Sometimes the price people have to pay for it is WAY TO HIGH. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Thurs, Mar 04, 1999 at 20:23:36 (EST)
From: Zac Email: None To: Mili Subject: And the fate of the bastard Message: who knew and did nothing about it? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Thurs, Mar 04, 1999 at 20:28:50 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Zac Subject: Respect, Zac, respect... Message: Zac, Your language and confrontational style are simply not welcome here. This is first and foremost a place of comfort. A place of refuge from the storm of life. A tranquil place. A place of the heart. In short, a nice place. Don't you realize that some people here have friends who still love and admire Maharaji? You sound as if you don't give a damn. I'm sorry. I don't mean to be disrespectful. Maybe I'm wrong (oops - that word again!) but I've got feelings to back up anything I say. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Thurs, Mar 04, 1999 at 21:51:03 (EST)
From: CD Email: None To: Jim Subject: Respect, Zac, respect... Message: >Maybe I'm wrong (oops - that word again!) but I've got feelings to back up anything I say. Yes you do, an icy grip on your tools. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Thurs, Mar 04, 1999 at 23:40:08 (EST)
From: g's mom Email: None To: Mili Subject: thank you... Message: Mili I think it shows some guts for a premie to say that. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Thurs, Mar 04, 1999 at 23:48:43 (EST)
From: g's mom Email: None To: Mili Subject: more Message: I did notice though you did not address the what Maharaj Ji knew and when did he know it and what did he do part. I don't have it in me to get confrontational about that. I just appreciate you believe me and hope he is off cleaning dirty toilets for eternity. Wasn't it you Mili who said something not so nice the first time I posted about this? Maybe with AJW's post it becomes more credible? But in any case I appreciate that you were forthright enough to write today's post. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Thurs, Mar 04, 1999 at 19:02:21 (EST)
From: Mili Email: mili@cheerful.com To: Jim Subject: My first character witness Message: 1) Knowledge is scientific. All you gotta do is try it and see for yourself. Now what could be more scientific than that. (Yeah, I never really looked at it like that. I guess you could say everyone who receives k is a scientist. Hmm. Thanks.) Yeah, we all are hardwired as scientists. It's called trial and error, you know. Remember the man-ape in Oddysey in Space 2001? This guy took a thigh bone and made an invention. He was our great-great-great-...-granddaddy. Science is based on consistently repeated outcomes of experiments, right? So, if I consistently have a unique, beautiful experience by practicing the techniques, it's an experiment that consistently yields the same results. Pretty scientific. 2) Masters have been here for a long time. So who are we to question their validity? (Excellent point!) I don't think you exactly caught my drift on that one. All I said was that this phenomenon has been here for a long time, and it's not about to dissapear so soon. Study it to your heart's contentment. 3) M's personal life means absolutely nothing to me. Nothing. Life's short, after all. No matter what he's done and who he's done it to, hey, it's not my problem! (I'm slowly coming around to appreciating this point. Give me a little more time, 'kay?) I was talking about his personal life. It's none of my business. As far as I know he's done no harm to anyone, and he has certainly done no harm to me. 4) Where others make boo boo's, Maharaji kisses and makes better. (well, he's the master, isn't he?) He has a way of cheering you up and making those gloomy clouds go away, you know! :o) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Thurs, Mar 04, 1999 at 19:44:49 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Mili Subject: Experimental dialogue w Mili Message: Mili, Do you mind if I try to talk with you with a little respect for a change? You know, it's not really me but I think maybe I can learn a few things from Brian, mummy and all the others who're trying to help. Okay? First, that's a very insightful observation you've made about us all being scientists. I'm beginning to see how confining and cruel language can be. It just keeps setting up all those boundaries, you know? I mean, why can't we all be scientists? Hell, if you say we are and I say we are, well that's pretty well it, isn't it? So I agree on that point. We're all scientists and some of us have studied k longer than others. My personal experiment lasted about eight or nine years. Yours lasted longer so, with the respect I'm learning to extend my fellow traveller, I defer to your judgement. I concede, Knolwedge works just fine. As for masters, well, you have one don't you? Believe me, Mili, I'm not going to risk interferring with that relationship (as if I ever could). I respect your choice and, with Katie's support, will try from now on to validate your feelings. I'm not sure what that means exactly. I mean, if you came to my office I could validate your parking but, well, we'll think of something. The point is, validation's all yours. Relax. As for Maharaji's personal life, all I can say is that there are a lot of premies who really love the guy. That's pretty personal, I have to admit. So, there too, I'm wrong. Wrong, wrong, wrong. -- oops! I'm starting to invalidate my own felings! Shit, this is confusing. Anyway, Mili, thanks for letting me respect you. Mi casa es ... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Thurs, Mar 04, 1999 at 19:58:26 (EST)
From: Mili Email: mili@cheerful.com To: Jim Subject: Experimental dialogue w Mili Message: Hey, it's two o'clock in the morning here, still dark and the birdies are waking up and singing in front of my house! First time I've heard it since a long time ago. Spring must be around the corner... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Fri, Mar 05, 1999 at 01:22:16 (EST)
From: Freewheeling Email: None To: Mili Subject: that's not character Message: Mili: He has a way of cheering you up and making those gloomy clouds go away, you know! This was a quality the girls attributed to Charlie Manson, as well. It has nothing to do with him, and everything to do with the way their feelings got leveraged. Listen to the Diane Sawyer interviews of the Manson women. FW Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Thurs, Mar 04, 1999 at 22:13:03 (EST)
From: nigel Email: nigel@redcrow.demon.co.uk To: Mili Subject: Your second character witness Message: Insulting people, spreading rumors and exposing private e-mails is just not a moral or rational way of arguing, right? Hi Mili. Since your memory goes back a full year: what do you now think about people who start petitions to newsgroups to get forums closed down? I mean the ones who - not having any fellow-petitioners - use a fabricated list of genuine email names without asking the owners' permission. Was that moral or rational? I'd just joined the forum and was printing everything out - so I have all the gory details - including your memorable discussion with Usenet. Shall I go on...? Don't be a hypocrite all your life. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Thurs, Mar 04, 1999 at 22:48:24 (EST)
From: Mili Email: mili@cheerful.com To: nigel Subject: Your second character witness Message: That's kind of twisting things around your way, Nigel, isn't it? Oh, well... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Thurs, Mar 04, 1999 at 22:58:29 (EST)
From: nigel Email: None To: Mili Subject: If you say so (yawn) nt. Message: nt Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Fri, Mar 05, 1999 at 01:54:25 (EST)
From: dv Email: None To: Mili Subject: Your second character witness Message: So let's hear your side of the story. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Fri, Mar 05, 1999 at 00:13:49 (EST)
From: Freewheeling Email: None To: Mili Subject: Sympathy for the Devil Message: Mili: I got up for hearing a really good tune, and got prose instead. Shame on you! Re: I’ve never really felt any harm from Maharaji or the Knowledge. Me neither, but I've got really poor judgment about myself. I can see with perfect clarity that Maharaji harmed a lot of other people. As for harm from Knowledge... it kept me from having a lot of good sex, when I was healthy and young enough to have really enjoyed it. But I guess that's a fleeting loss, because I'd have forgotten it by now anyway. FW Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Fri, Mar 05, 1999 at 01:38:59 (EST)
From: Mickey the Pharisee Email: None To: Mili Subject: Sympathy for the Devil Message: Mili, I'm glad to see you back on the Forum, and I actually consider you a a friend, but I must tell you, Maharaji really screwed up with Jagdeo. We have evidence that M knew about Jagdeo and his child sexual abuse. Christian Churches are no longer allowed any slack in this area, and M should not be cut any slack either. He knew what was going on and didn't toss the bastard out. There is absolutly no reason to allow such things. Knowledge may work for you, but that is no reason to cut M any slack in this area. He needs to come clean, toss Jagdeo out the door, and admit that there are child molestors within his organisation. Even the church is dealing with this now. Michael Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Fri, Mar 05, 1999 at 01:57:53 (EST)
From: dv Email: None To: Mickey the Pharisee Subject: He ain't gone Message: I saw Jagdeo at a program within the last year or so, with his usual grin.... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Fri, Mar 05, 1999 at 02:09:10 (EST)
From: Mickey the Pharisee Email: None To: dv Subject: He ain't gone Message: Well, that is just more proof that M should lose the guy. If a Christian church put up with a guy like Jagdeo, they would be run out of town, or a huge protest would happen in front of the Cathedral. But the cult leader M can have a child molestor as a 'great soul' and the premies defend the asshole. I am disgusted. There is no way you premies can defend this bastard or his master, as far as I am concerned. Wake up! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Fri, Mar 05, 1999 at 10:16:49 (EST)
From: g's mom Email: None To: dv Subject: this makes me sick Message: I really cannot fathom what makes Rawat keep him around. Forget that it is unethical, disgusting and immoral. It is just plain stupid. Look what the Catholic Church has gone through because they did not deal with this problem. I hope the premie rumour mill is working OT on this one. If Rawat won't protect the protect the premie kids at least some kids might be protected if their parents hear this. Does anyone have the slightest idea why he would keep Jagdeo around? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Fri, Mar 05, 1999 at 10:26:37 (EST)
From: Katie Email: None To: g's mom Subject: this makes me sick, too Message: I was also really upset about what Zac and dv had to say about Jagdeo's continued presence. As you said, I HOPE the premie rumor mill is working, and has been working, on this one. I do think your Journey will help a lot - thanks for that, g's mom. Love, Katie Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Fri, Mar 05, 1999 at 10:59:45 (EST)
From: Katie Email: None To: all Subject: Jagdeo Message: I'm adding this postscript because I wanted to clarify something that might protect or help some people. I have corresponded extensively with a woman who has told about being sexually abused by Jagdeo at a very young age (around age 7). Furthermore, she says that this abuse was not limited to her, and she knows several other people who were sexually abused by Jagdeo at this age. She has gotten a lot of help and is doing very well, thank god. Some of the other people who were sexually abused haven't been so fortunate. The reason I'm mentioning this is because I wanted to make it clear that the sexual abuse was not limited to girls over the age of puberty. To whoever is reading this: If your child was ever alone with Jagdeo at any time, and at any age, I urge you to speak to them about possible abuse, and to get help for them if they need it. Regards to all, Katie Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Fri, Mar 05, 1999 at 18:13:28 (EST)
From: bill Email: None To: Katie Subject: Jagdeo Message: I will definately take action on this one. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Fri, Mar 05, 1999 at 21:08:54 (EST)
From: chr Email: None To: bill Subject: Jagdeo Message: There was always a strange attitude from M in regards to Jagdeo-like he was above reproach. Many people wondered why Jagdeo was kept around. Initiators and others ( and I'm assuming that like most of us, they knew nothing about him molesting children) knew that he was bleeding ashrams dry, doing shonky K sessions etc. I know this weas brought to M's attention. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Sat, Mar 06, 1999 at 02:49:05 (EST)
From: Katie Email: None To: bill Subject: Jagdeo Message: I will definately take action on this one. Hi Bill - if you are going to talk to people you know about this (which I assume is what you meant), here's my opinion, for what it's worth. I think that the well-being of any children who may have been molested is more important than whether or not their parents believe that Maharaji knew. (I am pretty sure you will agree with me on this one, since you have children of your own.) So I caution you or anyone who confronts people with this to please be careful. If it's seen as a test of faith in Maharaji, then people may not be as responsive. And sometimes there are more important issues then whether people believe in Maharaji or not - I think this is one of those cases. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Fri, Mar 05, 1999 at 06:55:51 (EST)
From: bill Email: None To: Mili Subject: Croatian street fighting man Message: Mili, Do you think conciousness sprung from matter? Or do you think conciousness is as origional as energy and matter. Is the conciousness self concious? Or is it a unselfconcious 'Oneness' ? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Fri, Mar 05, 1999 at 07:27:49 (EST)
From: Mili Email: mili@cheerful.com To: bill Subject: Croatian street fighting man Message: Bill, this is just my little pet theory but I think consciousness is 'involuted' in matter. What we call organic and inorganic, dead and living, are just our maps of the world. Is a virus dead or alive? It can survive indefinitely under pretty harsh conditions, but when the environment is right, it begins to reproduce. Living beings need 'dead' matter to survive, and in turn provide sustenance for other living beings. Trees thrive on carbon dioxide which suffocates us. The whole ecosystem is so finely balanced and all the components play a part. It's all a big mystery, and the more you delve into it the more one is fascinated by it all. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Fri, Mar 05, 1999 at 08:37:54 (EST)
From: billovich Email: None To: Mili Subject: Croatian mountain climbing man Message: Hi Mili That is an interesting view and I overlooked that before now. Hope your mom is a-ok and your aunt. This is also a good subject, what is your thoughts today on wether or not there is something that is self aware but not in a body, aware of you. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Fri, Mar 05, 1999 at 10:00:07 (EST)
From: Mili Email: mili@cheerful.com To: billovich Subject: Croatian mountain climbing man Message: Mom is baking pancakes and aunt is gone to Vienna for the weekend. As for something being self aware and not in a body, I am afraid that's all in the realm of science fiction for me as of yet. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Mon, Mar 08, 1999 at 00:24:25 (EST)
From: bill Email: None To: Mili Subject: Croatian brilliant man Message: I am all over your web site. I have alittle project going on there. I'll post to you about it later. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Sat, Mar 06, 1999 at 07:48:45 (EST)
From: Helen Email: None To: bill Subject: bill read this Message: Bill I've noticed this self consciousness from matter theme a lot in your God posts. I am really interested in what you are talking about. Please explain. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Sun, Mar 07, 1999 at 01:02:49 (EST)
From: bb Email: None To: Helen Subject: bill read this Message: How about in the iron jon thread tomorrow> Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Thurs, Mar 04, 1999 at 16:51:08 (EST)
From: Rick Email: None To: Jim Subject: Jim, Think Quick Message: At a certain point, I still believe, people realize they're driving the wrong way down a one way street if enough people honk at them. Now am I driving the 'wrong way' here? No. Not enough people honking. Okay, Baby, get with it. You said it. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Thurs, Mar 04, 1999 at 17:05:52 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Rick Subject: I want to see my lawyer Message: Hey Rick baby, Who's honking? I hear from Katie and Brian that some people have complained about my confronting their spiritual beliefs and what not. Who are they? What'd they say? As it stands now, I'm geting reports that on such-and-such a day some unidentified driver supposedly honked at me. That's not enough, baby. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Thurs, Mar 04, 1999 at 17:50:16 (EST)
From: Helen Email: None To: Jim Subject: I want to see my lawyer Message: Honk Honk Quack Quack Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Thurs, Mar 04, 1999 at 18:08:18 (EST)
From: Rick Email: None To: Jim Subject: I want to see my lawyer Message: Listed below are the people who've objected to your post about Denise (or made a general objection about your 'tactics' arising from that post): Sir David Brian Katie Selene G's Mom Helen You'll notice I'm not on this list because I think your contribution outweighs your obxnoxiousness. I'm just testing your theory that 'honking' means anything more in shp's case than in yours. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Thurs, Mar 04, 1999 at 19:26:20 (EST)
From: Helen Email: None To: Rick Subject: Healing the inner lawyer Message: For the record, I didn't protest Jim's post to Denise. What I am protesting in Jim is that he couldn't see merit in what people were saying about how we, as a community, need to reevaluate our attitude towards premies who post here . Some of the criticism about our tactics was meant for me for making Denise into a project. I weighed all the info and started to see the value of the comments. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Thurs, Mar 04, 1999 at 19:51:02 (EST)
From: Rick Email: None To: Helen Subject: Too late to wiggle out now Message: Helen, here's what you said... Right on Katie. Jim, I agree with everything Katie has said here. You seem void of concern for the effect you have on others I think Jim (being the fair fellow he is) would take being 'void of concern for the effect he has on others' as a honk. Right, Jim. That's a honk, right? Helen, you honked at Jim, right? Do you remember now? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Thurs, Mar 04, 1999 at 19:57:40 (EST)
From: Helen Email: None To: Rick Subject: Wiggling, honking, quacking Message: Yes, I've been honking and quacking at Jim for a long time. That's nothing new. Yes I'm honking. I have also quacked quacked quacked. I did not however, find his post to Denise all that offensive. But most of his other posts to premies are extremely offensive to me. In fact they make me cringe, they make me wince. They make me wonder 'Does this guy have a heart?' Is that specific enough for you? Am I still wiggling? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Thurs, Mar 04, 1999 at 20:06:32 (EST)
From: Rick Email: None To: Helen Subject: Wiggling, honking, quacking Message: No, there's no wiggling there; that's a honk if I ever heard one. Funny how Jim disappeared, all of a sudden, like SHP. Katie will probably support him in his evasion. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Thurs, Mar 04, 1999 at 20:22:57 (EST)
From: SHP Email: None To: Rick, Jim Subject: disappear? moi? Message: H O N K ! S A T - C H I T - A N A N D! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Thurs, Mar 04, 1999 at 20:20:13 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Rick Subject: Stop, you two! Message: Please, let me settle this. I feel so heartless and obnoxious coming between you two like this. Please... Look, you're both right. Helen has indeed been honking and a-quacking for some time now. She just didn't honk over my Denise post. But she's been honking nonetheless. There, now. Where were we? Oh yeah, sensitivity. Rick, would you please show me some of your more sensitive posts so I can start working on a style or something? Helen, I did some more surfing and now can honestly apologize for ever dissing Mr. Walker. He was truly a great man. I particularly like his valorous criticism of the scientific establishment. Why, it was like he could see right through all those pocket-protectors! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Thurs, Mar 04, 1999 at 21:30:08 (EST)
From: Rick Email: None To: Jim Subject: Fuck Sensitivity Message: Which is it, honking matters or honking doesn't matter. Make up your mind. Now, as far as sensitivity, how's this... Nil, First of all, my name isn't Dick, it's Rick. Please call me that. What I meant by my post was that I was demonstrating that Erika was regurgitating premie cult nonsense. I quoted maharaji himself displaying the doom and gloom he laid on us in the 70's, in response to Erika advising Denise to listen to maharaji. Obviously, I struck a chord. You got angry. Believe it or not, that's good. Alot of premies couldn't get angry by the time maharaji finished with them. Apparently you aren't practicing very well. Good on you. Here's the thing... yes I will be accountable to the extent I can. I don't think anything I'm saying or doing is destructive but as JW pointed out, it could be very confusing. And you aren't wrong to ask me that. My motives in making posts here are self-centered to some extent but not without warmth and caring. And I would back that up with action in situations that warranted it. For instance, if it became clear that Denise really became unglued and suffered some tangible results from it, I would try to help by offering to communicate by email or phone, or suggesting other sources of help. To tell you truth, if Denise became so distraught that say, she lost her job or her place to live, I'd send her $100 cash money. And I'm virtually broke. So I think it's fair for me to say what I find to be honest and true, because I am accountable. By the way, my intense practice of knowledge in the late seventies contributed to my neglect in my marriage, that eventually degraded into a divorce. I was the most distraught I'd ever been in my life--near suicide. I was absolutely devastated and confused. I didn't understand how this could happen when I was doing everything maharaji prescribed. Actually, maharaji's knowledge, in this case, led me to be in a situation where I desperately needed help. I lost my job and had to move out of my apartment. I took my last fifty bucks and went to maharaji's program in San Francisco in June 1981. I listened to his satsang in total emotional agony and then went to the front row and found the guy who could ask maharaji if I could talk to him for five minutes. I truly was on the edge. The goon I talked to was cold as ice. He was incapable of understanding the kind of suffering I was in. He just rattled off reasons why I couldn't talk to maharaji. I pleaded but the guy just looked through me. I begged but he just vomited up the same old satsang. Finally, he agreed to try to ask maharaji. He went behind the stage, and then came back a few minutes later. He said that maharaji wasn't here for us in that capacity and that maharaji recommends that we just have faith and pray, and practice satsang, service and meditation. I walked away heartbroken. Listen, Nil... anytime you get in a jam (even though you were pissy and insulting with me) just email me at rtaraday@hotmail.com and I'll disconnect my computer and give you my phone number to call. I mean if you're ever in a jam, and just need an ear to bend. Rick Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Thurs, Mar 04, 1999 at 21:45:31 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Rick Subject: I'm impressed Message: Rick, I don't know what to say. I guess I just don't have that level of compassion in me. Good work. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Fri, Mar 05, 1999 at 08:58:41 (EST)
From: bill Email: None To: Rick Subject: Honk if you love jimsus Message: I want to be added to the list because Jim is way more funny when he is like this. For some reason dark sarcasm is funny to me but the light spoofy stuff is really funnier. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Fri, Mar 05, 1999 at 09:06:51 (EST)
From: bill Email: None To: bill Subject: Honk if you love jimsus Message: Maybe the comedy in the above thread can't be sustained or work for long. It sure is a halarious read today. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Thurs, Mar 04, 1999 at 22:55:44 (EST)
From: nigel Email: nigel@redcrow.demon.co.uk To: Rick Subject: One honk maybe. Message: The 'Denise' thread did my head in, as I found myself agreeing with almost everybody, and since I'd like to buy you all a pint in the next life can I just say this, before I carry on with pretending not to be here: Gerry put it pretty well when he said the forum needs both the challengers and the healers. More Gouldian than Dawkins I guess (off-topic remark). As I see it, all life is here. It's like a student common-room with many tables and various discussions going on. People wander about dropping in and chatting. Some newcomers sit quietly talking to people who they know and trust, others wander from table to table. Some are offended by the loudmouthed git who just dropped by and said so-and-so without waiting to be introduced. But they are free to chat with the others about the obnoxious git who said so-and-so, and once they realise that other fellow travellers think that said git is a git, they'll soon rejoice, get into some mutual slagging-off of said git and get over it. Someone might even point out to them that said git isn't so much obnoxious as forthright, and might even have some important reasons for feeling strongly about things, and also have some important things to say. Y'know - don't stomp off... hang around and find out. It's only a minor incident in the big common-room of life - not some traumatic abuse issue (of the kind that decade in a cult might be considered). You can get to know the faces here before you join in, at least if you heed the 'read for several days' warning in the forum introduction, and even then, the anonymity clause allows you to wear a mask and not feel any personal shame or embarrassment if your tentative query is slammed down by some apparent hot-head. Like I said: ALL life is here - and free to speak its mind - and learning about life is healthy, and not encouraged in the cult. . I'm not sure about the question of 'force' that Sir David raised. Challenging a viewpoint is surely no more than an essential ingredient of discussing things - and isn't this a discussion forum? (And like everyone has already said, you can't force anyone to change their mind just like that, even if you wanted). David, if you're reading this: last summer you and I had a pretty long discussion about consciousness, from very different viewpoints, but I don't think you could say there was any force involved, although we were both trying to make each other see things in a different light. I don't think either of us felt compelled against our will to change our minds - so we didn't change our minds. Persuasion is different from force, and surely acceptable..? For example, I persuaded about half a dozen people to come along to satsang for the first time, and about half of them received knowledge. If I can influence an equivalent number to get the hell out of there, I will have made some sort of amends. (A couple of people have told me in emails that things I have posted here have helped them get out. I can't tell you how good that feels...). BTW: I've only just realised that you are the admirable Mr AE. Your website may not state it expilicitly, but isn't the true purpose of the site to make premies re-evaluate? Not force, as such, but pretty effective persuasion, IMO. But also, I think there is a big, big difference between premies who come here to shout abuse and run away, and others who have stumbled upon the website and are seriously upset by what they have found, and suddenly need to re-evaluate god-knows how many years of what might be (might be???) wasted life and serious commitment. I know I tend to name and flame a few trusty, crusty old-timer premies in my sporadic rants, but mainly to use the idiotic things they have said on the forum as examples of cultish ways of thinking - and we're talking about the ones who hadn't come here to socialise in the first place. But Jim - seriously now - I think I understand why you zoom in on certain individuals, but don't you ever wonder whether making that individual the issue - rather than our bloaty guru chum - might be counter-productive? Ok, Rick, G-mom, esteemed webmaster and mistress et al, that was my one honk...:-) I have to say that there were some excellent well-argued posts in that thread from both directions - almost as good as the riveting discussions you get over at enjoyinglife.org, but not quite... Maybe we're just talking about good manners, here. I don't know. I'm British and indoctrinated about manners (ie. foreigners don't have any) so perhaps you should all be helping me... May the force be with you all. Now I'll bliss off. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Thurs, Mar 04, 1999 at 23:27:30 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: nigel Subject: Honky talk blues Message: Nige, As usual, I agree with almost everything I've said here. Thanks. I think it's bordering on GROSS hypocrisy for ex's who debate premies here to claim they're not trying to change anyone's mind. I mean, really! What's interesting to me is this question of talking about Denise (or SHP or anyone) in the third person here or, for that matter, focusing in on them in the second, up close and personal. Here's how I see it. First, I don't think I ever start a discussion here with that focus. I can't really imagine how that would work. What does happen, though, all too often I'm afraid, is that someone hides the ball of rationality, thereby prompting a bit of a strip search. (??) Take shp for instance. When he first started posting here people tried, as they still do, to engage him in good, clean discussions about Maharaji. It didn't matter so much where he was starting from (in his case all that laughable bible story stuff). What mattered was that here, it seemed, was an 'open-minded' premie. We could reason with him, set out all the facts that a lot of people have spent some considerable time piecing together and just watch the chips fall into place. If there were any valid critiques of the 'ex-premie analysis' he could utter them. Otherwise, rationality being what it is, he'd have to fold. Some, of course, would call that level of certainty arrogant but they're just not understanding. I just said that if shp had anything new to say in the debate most of us here would listen I'm sure. Who knows? Maybe, just maybe, there might yet be an explanation for all this apparently damning info about Maharaji. If so, what could we do but hear it fairly and proceed accordingly? Nothing. Still, without any such new twists, etc. we're entitled to feel some confidence in our story. It IS our story, too, after all. We're entitled to enjoy the strength of our convictions. Anyway, what happened in shp's case was that shp began rejecting the 'unpleasant' info and/or its troubling implications. At that point the conversation changes. It's no longer about Maharaji, it's about shp. What's the point of offering him more food (i.e. information) or even sitting closer to the bed to spoon feed. The guy's rejecting it all anyway. Maybe there's an obstruction. Time to do some exploratory surgery. So, the reason I asked about Denise is that I started to sense the same problem. Sure, she came here expressing her openmindedness and all that. But when push came to shove, she kept on pushing. I CANNOT accept that someone as obviously intelligent as she could question Maharaji's anti-intellectualism, especially in the face of the few quotes I rounded up. I mean, AS IF she needed that bit of proof. As IF! Now some people, apparently, think it's impolite to question another's thought process. Well, that's their priviledge. I don't share that opinion. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Fri, Mar 05, 1999 at 15:11:26 (EST)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Jim Subject: Honky talk blues Message: Oh crap and I just said I don't do this: Feeling fickel today I guess. Jim said: 'Now some people, apparently, think it's impolite to question another's thought process. Well, that's their priviledge. I don't share that opinion.' That is all well and good but I don't mind you or anyone getting into it but 'IMPOLITE' is an UNDERSTATMENT. I haven't read your posts in a long time for the most part but if you are still the same, and I just bet you are, it is your attack mode that works against you getting your point across and when YOU are asked honest questions YOU become mysteriously gone. This post is a waste because you do not and will not look at yourself objectively not for one second but hey that's you and some people here and in your life love and respect you. Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Fri, Mar 05, 1999 at 19:35:31 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Robyn Subject: And thank you, Robyn Message: I haven't read your posts in a long time for the most part but if you are still the same, and I just bet you are, it is your attack mode that works against you getting your point across and when YOU are asked honest questions YOU become mysteriously gone. Two things here. First, your telling me that I'm not 'getting my point across'. Who says? Second, what honest questions have I avoided? This post is a waste because you do not and will not look at yourself objectively not for one second but hey that's you and some people here and in your life love and respect you. Show me one person -- yourself included -- who can look at themself 'objectively'. I say it can't be done. Love, Jim Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Fri, Mar 05, 1999 at 23:03:36 (EST)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Jim Subject: And thank you, Robyn Message: Jim Dear, You have avoided my questions, long time ago and I have read other people say the same. I don't have time it search and compile a list for you. I know I started this but you feel like the Jehovah's Witness at the door and as Jessica so eloquently years ago while slamming the door in their faces, 'WE WORSHIP SATAN! The last time a Johovah's Witness was at my house he looked in and up through all the floors, this house is very open, and said, 'Are all the floors on one level.' What the hell do you say to that! I stared at him and his cohort said, is your husband home, I said no he's died and my daughters chimed up in the back ground, 'Husband, you don't have a husband!'. No room here for denyal! 'Show me one person -- yourself included -- who can look at themself 'objectively'. I say it can't be done.' Of course you would feel this way, exactly. It isn't easy but yes I do do it and I know others here that do it too. Having kids, well my kids anyway is a good start. They call me on the shit and after growing up to a mother who told us, no she didn't just beat the shit out of us, well I am goind to look myself in the eyes and be honest, brutally honest, sometimes it takes a long time sometimes not. It is something I believe in something I am fundamentally committed to. Maybe it comes in glimpses and realizations sometimes it is exaggerated or under developed but if you work at it it is there. Love, Robyn Darling Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Fri, Mar 05, 1999 at 23:44:14 (EST)
From: Helen Email: None To: Robyn Subject: And thank you, Robyn Message: YOU GO GIRL!!!! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Sat, Mar 06, 1999 at 13:34:45 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Helen Subject: And you, Helen? Message: Helen, I agree, Robyn said some exceptional stuff there. What was your favorite part? Are you too -- unlike me -- one of those nifty people that have done 'a lot of work on themselves' and thus have the neat ability to see ahemselves objectively? God, that must be cool! And you obviously thought Robyn hit the nail on the head comparing me to a JW. Care to say why? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Sat, Mar 06, 1999 at 15:50:58 (EST)
From: Helen Email: None To: Jim Subject: Here you go, Jim Message: The part of Robyn's post I liked was when she said that of course you would say that looking at ourselves objectively can't be done. You always seem to have an answer for everything that deflects from looking at yourself. Instead of looking at yourslef, you hack everyone else's posts to bits, deconstructing them and analyzing them as if they were insects underneath your microscope. I know that probably sounds like psychobabble but it's the honest truth--hey you asked. Just once I'd like to see you consider that maybe you can be a little mean or over the top in your ways of dealing with people. Of course, none of us will ever be able to see oursleves completely objectively, but hell we can at least try. Trying to get you to look at yourself seems like a lesson in futility, the Jehovah's Witness example seemed like a metaphor for the fact that trying to talk to a J.Witness about anything is futile. They have their own perceptions and cling to them no matter what the other person brings to the exchange. I always tell them I'm Jewish, which always shuts them up (it's not completely a lie, right Jim, since I've also felt like I have a Jewish soul). To use the Walker Percy example, I keep trying to get you to see what I like about Walker Percy and you keep focussing on something else. It's Walker Percy's NOVEL The Second Coming that touched me so deeply, not his ideas on science (although those are interesting to me also). The novel so exquisitely describes the angst of the modern man and the 'grace' of getting one's power back through human connection. I absolutely ate that book up. Walker Percy won the Pulitzer prize for his book the 'Moviegoer'. He also fought off the urge to kill himself his entire life, most of the adults in his family did themselves in. Rather than give into devastating depression, he left the world with wonderful, original books. I admire that strength. He also was a very moral person. I admire that too. And he was best friends with Shelby Foote. Okay, I've already told you I'm in love with him, and he's dead!! What's a girl to do? Look, I'm really not into a 'we hate Jim' campaign or anything. Your posts have helped me alot and I think you are a real warrior in the cause against cults. You also can be funny as hell, and I laugh out loud at many of your posts. I'm not in the least intimidated by you. I just think that your style is too abrasive and mean at times. As Monica said 'There's a person behind the name Monica Lewinsky and a family.' By the same token, there's a person behind all these premies. Look, I get pissed off at them too and go off on them sometimes. But you know, it's not really productive to just yell and scream at people and call them names & take pleasure in it. But you already knew that. Why do you care what I think anyway? Helen Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Sat, Mar 06, 1999 at 13:29:52 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Robyn Subject: Good work, Robyn Message: Robyn, You must hve really put your thinking cap on for that one. 1) I've ignored your questions? Which ones? You don't remember? Neither do I. 2) I'm like a Jehovah's Witness? Care to elaborate? 3) You -- unlike me -- have developed the rare quality of being able to look at yourself? Wow, that's quite an accomplishment! Tell me, please, if you're still able to look at yourself subjectively or did you have to trade that skill in? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Fri, Mar 05, 1999 at 15:03:55 (EST)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: nigel Subject: One honk maybe. Message: Dear Nigel, What a dear you are, and you and I don't see eye to eye on a lot of things I think but still we can feel really good toward the other, I hope this is the case anyway. I haven't been the object of Jim's attention, Whew! since I wrote that superhero post to him and life here has been grand for me since. Some people really get off on Jim's personality but I didn't and I think the feeling is/was mutual so we have settled it by staying out of each other's way. I am sure if I were reading you though Jim I'd be just a laying on the horn! I do have to miss the funny stuff and god can Jim be funny but sometimes you have to give up the good with the bad I guess. My love to Willie! :) Love, Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |