Ex-Premie.Org |
Forum III Archive # 41 | |
From: Mar 5, 1999 |
To: Mar 17, 1999 |
Page: 1 Of: 5 |
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Date: Fri, Mar 12, 1999 at 20:04:23 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Master Meets Estranged Mum Message: I didn't know that the Perfect Master ever met with his estranged mother before she died, but, according to People Magazine, he did. People Magazine, March 5, 1984: The Perfect Master: When Maharaj Ji was 8, his mother said he was perfect. By the time he was 17, he had developed a few habits that even a mother couldn't condone -- eating meat, drinking liquor, nightclubbing and marrying his American secretary, just to name a few. For these and other transgressions against the holy Hindu path, his mother took away his leadership of the Divine Light Mission and gave it to her oldest son, Bal Bhagwan Ji. Maharaji fought it, but Mom knows best. At 26, with four kids, he lives in Miami and Malibu, completely dependent on the kindness of strangers and friends. No problem. Though he does not call himself the leader of any official group, religious or otherwise, Maharaji has more than a million followers by one aide's estimate. He still does as he wants, but his mother doesn't seem to mind. A few years ago she visited him in Malibu. 'We had a nice talk,' he says. 'She said everything was A-OK.' Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Mar 12, 1999 at 20:34:34 (EST)
From: chr Email: None To: JW Subject: Master Meets Estranged Mum Message: Hi Joe, I remember a two page article in the Denver Post ( or whatever the main Denver newspaper is called) that was mainly an interview with Bob Mishler. It came out to coincide with the program in Denver in 79-Feb? Anyway it was a very interesting article and went into more detail than the interview printed here on ex premie org. You may be able to dig it up in your research. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Mar 12, 1999 at 22:57:16 (EST)
From: g's mom Email: None To: JW Subject: these are interesting. Message: I would love to read more. Thanks for finding them. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Mar 12, 1999 at 23:39:56 (EST)
From: bill Email: None To: JW Subject: not accurate Message: Not true JW. The last time they met was in malibu in 74. You know that story right? I have the official dlm version of it. In print. I read that when -people- came out with it and knew it was misleading then. The part that said 'maharaji fought it but mom knows best' was also part of the deception. He won the fight in india. The judge threw out his brothers case after asking him 'what is the greatest sin?' and bbj said 'jealosy' the judge said 'jealousy? you were the one that was jealous he was the guru' Then the judge asked prem rawat what is the greatest sin and pr said 'not to recognise the god that created you' and the judge said case dismissed and put aside bbj's suit against prem. That's the official dlm version. shp sandra kieth will unfortunately find strength in that story. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Mar 13, 1999 at 05:06:44 (EST)
From: Jethro Email: None To: bill Subject: not accurate Message: The version I heard finished with the judge saying that they were both wrong and that the greatest sin is lieing in the name of God. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Mar 13, 1999 at 08:08:39 (EST)
From: bb Email: None To: Jethro Subject: not accurate Message: That is the way it should have been, your right. Maybe bbj's web site would give a version of events if asked. I will request it. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Mar 13, 1999 at 12:17:24 (EST)
From: Armando Email: None To: Jethro Subject: if you can't slant it Message: make something up The version I heard finished with the judge saying that they were both wrong and that the greatest sin is lieing in the name of God. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sun, Mar 14, 1999 at 02:10:19 (EST)
From: Jethro Email: None To: Armando Subject: Armando why don't you..... Message: ask the M man himself. I can't see any reason for him to lie on this one. Are you another lover of this paedophile supporter? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sun, Mar 14, 1999 at 02:21:22 (EST)
From: Armando Email: None To: Jethro Subject: swapping yo mamma insults Message: Are you another lover of this paedophile supporter? You filthy motherfucker. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sun, Mar 14, 1999 at 02:31:40 (EST)
From: Jethro Email: None To: Armando Subject: thanks for a clear answer Message: 'You filthy motherfucker.' I take that as a 'yes' Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sun, Mar 14, 1999 at 02:40:08 (EST)
From: Armando Email: None To: Jethro Subject: and clever too Message: just making an observation Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sun, Mar 14, 1999 at 04:19:05 (EST)
From: Jethro Email: None To: Armando Subject: Avoidance techniques Message: don't work on this forum. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Mar 13, 1999 at 15:29:53 (EST)
From: SHP Email: None To: bill Subject: how so? Message: 'shp sandra kieth will unfortunately find strength in that story.' bill: 1) You are talikng about 3 people here, unless sandra and keith are the same person. 2) 'will...find'....sounds like you are doing a reading of the future. 3)'unfortunatley'...how so? 4) 'find strength'...how so? because Maharaji's answer was more accurate than his brother's? please explain. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Mar 15, 1999 at 01:06:04 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: bill Subject: So BM LIED to the press? Message: That article was quoting Maharaji and the article was in 1984. Maharaji supposedly said his mother had visited him in Malibu 'a few years ago.' That wouldn't seem to be 10 years ealier. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Mar 15, 1999 at 01:21:27 (EST)
From: bb Email: None To: JW Subject: yup! Message: Yes he did lie to the press. Or at least told the story in a way to make it seem like all had been patched up with her. By the way, what's the likelyhood of her using the word A-OK? She didn't go to America to malibu after that visit in 74 where she called the cops because she couldn't see her 16 yr old son because security at the gate said 'no'. She told the cops that 'mission managers' were holding her son captive and wouldnt let her see him. Turned out it was worse than that. HE didn't want to see her. He told the cops that she could call the next day and make an appointment. Granted, she was the holiest mother of creation and he was needing some distance from mom. She was telling him what was right and wrong (about some things) and although he said later that she and the family wanted to have dominion over people and that the perfect master didn't come to have dominion over people. Of course he then went into COMPLETE dominion mode as we know and he wasn't starting from square one, he had been the lord for years and was well into dominion already. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Mar 15, 1999 at 08:48:56 (EST)
From: Happy Email: None To: bb Subject: Mom and BBJ won in India? Message: I never trusted the official DLM version. Obviously, Mata Ji and bubblegum Ji must have won the lawsuit in India, at least to extent that a) they kept all the ashrams, especially Prem Nagar, b) they kept the name DLM. Or does anyone have knowledge of anything else? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Mar 15, 1999 at 10:51:38 (EST)
From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Happy Subject: Mom and BBJ won in India? Message: one of M's organization in India these days is called DUO. I've never seen DLM's name anywhere in m's organization in India. Lotus Travel, such and such video production company, etc. The fact that Prem Nagar and also I FORGOT!!!! BBJ's ashram in Delhi is old 'punjabi bagh': have a look on his site! That PROVES his lies, and the fact he's lost his belongings. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Mar 15, 1999 at 11:26:07 (EST)
From: Happy Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: Mom and BBJ won in India? Message: Thanks J-M, that's what I thought. Yes, Punjabi Bagh was the name (or rather, the place) of the ashram in Delhi. And all this went to Mom and bubblegum Ji. So, M simply cannot have won. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Mar 15, 1999 at 12:24:05 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: Mom and BBJ won in India? Message: Yes, I have heard from a couple of sources over the years that Maharaji actually lost the lawsuit in India to his mom and Bal Bahgwan Ji. That's why he lost Prem Negar and most of the properties in India, as well as the use of the DLM name in India. That's what the lawsuit was about -- properties and money. That's why I heard the judge got so pissed. These supposed spiritual leaders fighting like children over money, in the most spiteful fashion, while all the while preaching love and truth. The irony and contradictions were not lost on the judge. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Mar 15, 1999 at 16:28:56 (EST)
From: Zac Email: None To: JW Subject: Security concerns in India? Message: Weren't there serious security concerns in India at that time preventing MJ from working the country? Chr, Do you remember anything about that? I thought his life was in danger in India and he stayed away for 5 years. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Mar 12, 1999 at 17:56:37 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: Everyone Subject: BM's Response to Mishler Message: I did a Nexis search and found some good stuff that I will share gradually, as time permits. This first one is from the Associated Press dated January 22, 1979 [Please notice Maharaji's pitiful 'what about me' comment]: The Maharaj Ji, who came to the United States as a child guru, has become an object of veneration instead of a teacher of truth, a critic says. 'He has bastardized the teaching of the gurus,' said Robert Mishler, worldwide president of the Maharaj Ji's Divine Light Mission until 1976...'Now people are taught to learn the truth about him the Maharaj Ji, instead of themselves.' ...many followers do appear to believe the Maharaj Ji has god like qualities or is himself God. 'That kind of absolute dominion over people provides a corrupting influence,' said Mishler, claiming the guru's followers, 'will literally do anything he tells them.' A mission spokesman estimated membership in the United States is about 12,000, with 1.2 million worldwise, mostly in India. While followers flock to Malibu to be near their spiritual leader, the Maharaj Ji limits himself to speeches at national festivals and world tours. He travels to and from his estate by limosine or private helicopter. Mishler said he left the group after trying to get the Maharaj Ji to tell his followers that he was not God, and to live only off his own tax free gifts, instead of income from the missions as he was. He said the mission took in over $5 million in 1976. 'When I proposed that I remember his exact words,' Mishler said, 'the Maharaj Ji asked, 'What about me?'' Joe Anctil, a spokesman for DLM based in Denver, said Mishler 'freaked out' because his job as international director was discontinued. Anctil described the mission as 'a group of individuals who live autonomously, practice a meditation and do selfless service. The Maharaj Ji is a spiritual inspiration for those people who do meditation.' On the question of whether the Maharaj Ji is regarded as god, he said 'If you asked every member of the mission, they would each give you a different answer.' Mishler said another factor in his split with the Maharaj Ji was his suggestion to sell the Malibu estate, because it had been purchased with mission funds. 'They've probably signed it over to Maharaj Ji by now,' he said. Anctil said the mansion belongs to Maharaj Ji. Asked if it had been given to him by the church, Anctil said, 'That's none of your business or mine.' He also declined to discuss the mission's net worth. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Mar 12, 1999 at 19:39:08 (EST)
From: Mr Rodgers Email: None To: JW Subject: BM's Response to Mishler Message: Yeah, a story going around at the time was that Maharaji, then Guru Maharaj Ji, said after a meeting with ole Bob and his followers(staff) 'I don't know what I am going to do, I guess I will just have to go back to India' I guess he didn't. :) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Mar 12, 1999 at 19:49:25 (EST)
From: Guess who? Email: None To: Mr Rodgers Subject: BM's Response to Mishler Message: Is that Steve Rodgers, formerly of Manchester, England? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Mar 12, 1999 at 20:18:30 (EST)
From: Rick Email: None To: JW Subject: BM's Response to Mishler Message: Hi JW, What is a Nexus search and how can I do one? Rick Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Mar 15, 1999 at 01:09:03 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: Rick Subject: Lexis/Nexis Message: What is a Nexus search and how can I do one? You have to subsribe to Lexis and Nexis and it's fairly expensive, although I don't know the actual cost. I do a lot of legal research on Lexis and the Nexis capability comes along with it. I don't have it myself, it's supplied by my firm. I just got around the other day to doing one. I need to do some searches with 'Mishler' to get that interview that chr mentioned. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Mar 15, 1999 at 02:16:22 (EST)
From: Runamok Email: None To: JW Subject: Lexis/Nexis Message: Wouldn't a search like that be available in some libraries, like law libraries? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Mar 13, 1999 at 05:44:33 (EST)
From: Billy Email: None To: JW Subject: Mishler's Credibility Message: Dear JW, This is just the sort of nothingness that couldn't fuel a llama dung-propelled vehicle to the next dirt-mound. Did you, or anyone you know, like and respect Bob Mishler while he was alive? I don't know a single person who would say that and I doubt anyone on your list would either, if they were honest. He was the epitome of a 'suit.' He tried to mold and package Maharaji in a way that M was obviously uncomfortable with and M gave him the boot. Most everyone I know cheered at the time. Now, in your revisionist cosmology, Bob Mishler was this wonderful, free-thinking guy. Give me a fuckin' break! That is outlandish. He was an over-caffeined power-tripper who is probably more responsible, in many ways, for the odd and slightly hysterical view many of the 'old-timers' on this list have of M, DLM etc. than Maharaji himself, however little you may like or comprehend him. Bob Mishler had no credibility then...and he has even less now. It is astounding to me that anybody would take his words so seriously in 1999. This is a guy who people wouldn't even walk down the street to hear. People regularly muttered what a controlling asshole he was. And you're automatically taking his word over someone, who for at least some part of your life, you'd happily travel huge distances to be around. Can you really talk yourself into believing that there was nothing major going on for you that you would ever do such things. Do you really think you were such a total dolt? Did you ever really care what Bob Mishler said. Why on earth would you now? Billy Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Mar 13, 1999 at 06:10:15 (EST)
From: Runamok Email: None To: Billy Subject: Mishler's Credibility Message: In fact, Mishler, like numerous other DLM bigwigs, was someone I respected. VERY OFTEN people on this forum refer to people who were in similar positions of authority and say things like, 'I really liked so-and-so, does anyone know what happenned to them.' Or they say, 'In spite of so-and-so being a big pam, I always felt (s)he was a person with a big heart and I sure hope (s)he is doing well now and found their way to leave Miragey.' Also, the case was that we knew him and others like him because they were relatively accessible (compared Miragey). We could ask the questions one-to-one after a program and did. Caffeined? He had that up 21 hours a day look of any of the idiots who tried to serve that megalo-mirage. I sure it's fun for you to try to screw this forum up, but you could try to establish a democracy on your own turf instead of talking down to us like we're conspiratorially misrepresenting truth for our agenda. Miragey is a ripoff- wake up! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Mar 13, 1999 at 10:26:23 (EST)
From: jpk Email: None To: Runamok Subject: His favorite answer Message: Really? one-on-one?, most this brain washed idiot, me, heard from Bob about Maharaji was 'This is what gumeraji wants' Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Mar 13, 1999 at 17:23:51 (EST)
From: chr Email: None To: Billy Subject: Mishler's Credibility Message: I didn't know Bob Mishler personally. What I do know is that when he left M, everybody suddenly seemed to know him. ' Well he was always in it for the power.' 'He never really understood who M was' etc etc were the sort of comments bandied around along with the 'suit' type of comments you made. Now thats what I call revisionist. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Mar 13, 1999 at 18:40:23 (EST)
From: Jake Email: None To: chr Subject: Stinkin thinkin Message: Well yeah, its easier to brand someone else, but the correct thinking, ‘bout Bob, would be to say maybe I don't who M was/is and many of the traits making me think of Bob as a 'suit' , I also have. Of course, I didn't, but I think it may catch up with you eventually. Same ways, as when I was very young, I considered myself not prejudiced about blacks and women, but later and I am glad not to much older I was able say yes I was. I was a least much more open to the issues. Now I'm perfect, well a least until I hear something that makes me feel uncomfortable. Revisionist? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Mar 13, 1999 at 20:03:55 (EST)
From: Billy Email: None To: chr Subject: Mishler's Credibility Message: Hi chr, Not true at all. Bob Mishler annoyed and upset many people when he was DLM president and I found him over-hyped and quite cold at the time, NOT just in retrospect. He very much seemed a power-tripper and both he and Mike Donner (a bit later) made numerous representations of what Maharaji said or wanted that turned out to be their own creations. It was no surprise when he and M parted ways. It's only a surprise that anyone's listening to Mishler's crap now. People that I knew only respected Mishler for his access to M, not his own qualities and were disappointed in him when they found out he was translating and pushing things to suit his own agenda. That's what I remember from THAT time, not later. The revisionism is in making Mishler something he never was. Enjoy your Saturday night, Billy Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Mar 13, 1999 at 20:33:13 (EST)
From: chr Email: None To: Billy Subject: Mishler's Credibility Message: So you knew him personally, did you? Or are you just doing the usual premie thing of assuming you know everything from afar? I met him a couple of times and found him friendly enough. Other than that I can't comment personally. People said all sorts of things about him before and after he left. A guy I was in the ashram with thought he was a saint, believe it or not. Whatever Bob Mishler was actually like, and opinions will always vary, he had access to M and the workings of DLM in a way that few others, if any, have had. Just because of that aspect alone, he is worth listening to. BTW much of what he said I found out later to be true from my own personal experiences around M. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sun, Mar 14, 1999 at 01:30:55 (EST)
From: Runamok Email: None To: Billy Subject: Mishler's Credibility Message: I guess Miragey liked him enough at some point to have made him the head of his organisation, duh! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Mar 15, 1999 at 01:32:12 (EST)
From: bb Email: None To: Runamok Subject: Mishler's Credibility Message: And then, after his second or third heart attack, bob left the president job and prem rawat offered him the job of being rawat's personal assistant. Bob declined the intense slave position. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Mar 15, 1999 at 01:29:37 (EST)
From: bb Email: None To: Billy Subject: Mishler's Credibility Message: How about I post some of BOB's satsangs from the good old days and we all just see how devoted and clear he was. He was sincere. He gave his house away at the start and his talks in 74 were very premielike. He talked about why we did stages like we did for p. rawat. --because he is a jewel and we set up the stages...... I will post some quotes. It is wishful thinking to paint him with a broad brush and say he was just the lone corrupt premie, the judas, that never was in the devotee status. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Mar 13, 1999 at 17:56:14 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: Billy Subject: Mishler's Credibility Message: Well first, Billy, I suggest you calm down and try to be rational rather than just engage in ranting. Try to remember holy name or something, no wait, I guess you aren't supposed to do that anymore. Well, take a few deep breaths anyway. This is just the sort of nothingness that couldn't fuel a llama dung-propelled vehicle to the next dirt-mound. Did you, or anyone you know, like and respect Bob Mishler while he was alive? Yes, I did respect Mishler when he was alive, very much so, and every premie I knew did as well. Other than the fact he wore a suit, what exactly was your problem with him? He tried to mold and package Maharaji in a way that M was obviously uncomfortable with and M gave him the boot. Most everyone I know cheered at the time. Now, in your revisionist cosmology, Bob Mishler was this wonderful, free-thinking guy. Give me a fuckin' break! Misler has stated publicly that he tried to 'mold' Maharaji only to the extent of stating publicly that he wasn't god, which seemed more than reasonable because most of the premies believed he was, and he wasn't, and, in fact, Mishler was correct and Maharaji has since stated he isn't god. I think it's you, Billy, that is engaging in revisionism here. I have never stated that Mishler was a saint, but I think it took a lot of courage for him to come out publicly and expose Maharaji for the fraud he is. He had nothing to personally gain by doing that. Bob Mishler had no credibility then...and he has even less now. This is bullshit. Maybe he has no credibility with you, but history has proven his credibility. As I said, Maharaji, eventually, pretty much followed the advice Mishler gave him about stating he wasn't god, in 1976, he just did it about 10 years late. And you're automatically taking his word over someone, who for at least some part of your life, you'd happily travel huge distances to be around. Can you really talk yourself into believing that there was nothing major going on for you that you would ever do such things. Do you really think you were such a total dolt? Billy, what 'word' has BM ever muttered about what Mishler said? Has he ever, even once, ever denied anything Mishler said, even though it's been 20 years since he said it? No, not once. Maybe he is too chickenshit, or maybe it's because what Mishler said was true. I really did believe Maharaji was god incarnate for the 10 years I followed him. I would have appreciated knowing that wasn't true. And Maharaji NEVER corrected that error, in fact he played it for all it was worth, having us kiss his feet and being referred to as Lord of the Universe. And he had every greedy financial motive to do that, because donations were drying up in 1976 when BM started doing what Mishler suggested andt started cooling the god-thing. Then he went in the opposite direction, because he wanted to continue to be worshiped and for the money. It's Maharaji who is deceitful, not Mishler. Did you ever really care what Bob Mishler said. Why on earth would you now? As I said, yes I did care, and the premies I knew also did. Since he was around the BM so closely, that gives his comments a lot of credibility? And Billy, again, if Mishler is wrong, why hasn't Maharaji ever, even once, responded to Mishlers allegations? Hmmmm? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sun, Mar 14, 1999 at 05:12:57 (EST)
From: Sir Dave Email: david.studio57@btinternet.com To: JW Subject: Krishna's Credibility Message: If only I had read the transcript of Mishler's interview back in the seventies. Talk about an information blackout. I was completely unaware of it until three years ago. I didn't believe what Bob Mishler had said when I first saw it on the net but after some time and more testimonies of a similar nature, it all started to make sense. I've put some of the above posts on The truth about Maharaji website where they can be viewed for a long time to come. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, Mar 16, 1999 at 21:09:40 (EST)
From: Nil Email: None To: JW Subject: JW's Credibility Message: JW you are so full of shit! Your post is as consumate example of revisionist propeganda as I've ever seen. NOBODY I know or knew had much respect for Mishler... except for his cronies who exited with him. That you would beatify someone as you do that you didn't even know is beyond belief, just because he was 'around' Maharaji... now who has the credibility gap JW? How much fucking credibility would you give someone today who bases their support on such a fragile bias? Hmmmm? As for courage... it didn't take any more courage for him to come out publicaly than it takes you guys courage to do your wimpering on this webpage. HE WAS AN ASSHOLE JOE!! Assholes don't have courage... they have raw stupidity mixed with healthy doses of unmitigated ego. If you need proof look no further than yourself. You are one of the most dishonest people I've stumbled across in years... seriously. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Mar 15, 1999 at 00:06:12 (EST)
From: Nim Email: None To: Billy Subject: Did maharaji kill Bob, Billy? Message: Now, in your revisionist cosmology... ...you give yourself away Billy, or should I say Nilly? Again Billy-Nilly, Nilly- Billy(whoever, whatever...as long as we can spend this precious time together...you know what I mean?), there's only one source of revisionism in this thread, and its YOU. YOU take the term Bullshit Revisionism to a completely new dimension...you really bring it alive with your acid vein, fuckbrain bastardization of the truth. Here's how. You said, Did you, or anyone you know, like and respect Bob Mishler while he was alive? I don't know a single person who would say that...(emphasis my own) And I never met a person who had ANYTHING BAD TO SAY about Bob Micheler. My involvement in the cult started in 1972, ended in 1998 and all that time I never met a single premie who had even one negative thing to say about him. When he was in m's service , no other premie from the west was more respected. After he and m parted ways, the conspiracy of silence surrounding Bob's departure was quite noticeable. PAMers who succeeded him would not really engage in an honest discussion as to why Bob left. That kind of honest discussion would of course, only serve to stir up doubts among the premies as to m's legitimacy and validity in being who he(m), had so outrageously declared he was(and in those early days...it was 'Lord of the Universe' and 'Perfect Master' of course). ' He tried to mold and package Maharaji in a way that M was obviously uncomfortable with and M gave him the boot Wrong again genius. M gave Bob the boot, because he clearly feared the negative financial consequences of moving away from a heavy devotional mindset in his cult, and that was the direction he (Bob) was encouraging m to move in for the sake of everyone's sanity and well-being. The direction Bob wanted m to move in, was towards a more humane environment for people to discover the 'experience of knowledge'. Unfortunately, m was more interested in the experience of being a greedy grubby, fat little fuck. He was an over-caffeined power-tripper who is probably more responsible, in many ways, for the odd and slightly hysterical view many of the 'old-timers' on this list have of M, DLM etc. than Maharaji himself, however little you may like or comprehend him. Bullshit again... Bob's departure in 1977 marked m's plunge into one of the worst 'headfucking' periods in the cult's history. One only needs to look at M's quotes from that era, to see how now as an adult, with no mother, no Bob Mishler to mold him, m on his own chose a path of psychological ,emotional and financial abuse for his followers. Bob Mishler doesn't match your description above. If one reads the interview with him conducted just a few months before his death in a helicpter crash in 1979, one gets the feeling that Mishler could have easily, and probably would have eventually eaten up m for breakfast and then spit out the bones. He had m's number. Clearly for m and his PAMers, he represented a major problem. That helicopter accident in which he died, clearly saved m's ass. Had Mishler lived m might have packed it in long ago. But he didn't, and now Billy -Nilly, you get to treat us to your pathetic bullshit, revisionist cosmology. But since you're such an obvious maven, and given the fact that m had so much to gain from Bob's death,why don't you answer this question for us? Did Maharaji order the death of Bob Mishler? What information can you share with us, that would prove that m and/or some of his PAMers were not involved in this? Now don't get all huffy and puffy over this Billy-Nilly, remember stress is a killer too(along with helicopter crashes of course). Just deal with it. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Mar 15, 1999 at 01:02:13 (EST)
From: Runamok Email: None To: Nim Subject: Did maharaji kill Bob, Billy? Message: I have been hesitant to post it, but I will admit it. That's a question we should look at. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Mar 15, 1999 at 01:15:45 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: Runamok Subject: Come on Message: Come on guys. There is no evidence of Maharaji having anything to do with Mishler's death. Many premies, and initiators, said his death was some kind of karmic result of his rejecting Mahararji so publicly, but that is bullshit too. I think Mishler died of a heart attack, at least that's what I heard. If M had had anything to do with the death, it would have come out. Despite the extreme paranoia of Maharaji and his organization, most of all the rotten stuff about Maharaji eventually comes out. Do you think the details of Maharaji's ongoing adulterous affair with Moncia Lewis would be common knowledge among the premies as it is, if he had any success whatsoever in actually keeping this stuff secret? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Mar 15, 1999 at 01:23:08 (EST)
From: Zac Email: None To: JW Subject: Heart Attack? Message: JW - Wasn't it was common knowledge he died in a crash, plane or helicopter? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Mar 15, 1999 at 01:38:36 (EST)
From: bb Email: None To: Zac Subject: Heart Attack? Message: He had a heart attack (not his first!) on key west and the plane carrying him back to miami for hospitalization crashed. His family must have a copy of his book. He wrote a book about bm and was marketing it to publishing houses. If there is a way to get death notices from miami herald airplane crash we can get his family addresses or at least the town and thier names. And then the book. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Mar 15, 1999 at 01:50:43 (EST)
From: Runamok Email: None To: JW Subject: Serious as a Heart Attack Message: Raising a question isn't claiming to know an answer. I really consider it a real possibility in part because the information was so sparse and vague at the time. True, that's part of the cult scene and Mishler had left the cult- he was personna non grata. But it felt weird that no one knew much. It is really a question I find myself asking. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Mar 15, 1999 at 01:54:13 (EST)
From: Nim Email: None To: bb Subject: Heart Attack? Message: >>[Transcribing editor's note: Although this interview is now nearly 20 years old, it provides a unique insight into how a cult is created and its members indoctrinated. Bob Mishler died only a few months after this interview. Some reports stated that he died in a plane accident, someone else said it was a heart attack, another said that the air ambulance taking him to hospital following a heart attack crashed! If anyone knows the truth, please let us know.] Hey bb, the above statement is what appears at the end of the Bob Mishler interview on our ex-premie website. If there are no reasons to suspect foul play in this situation, then why does this site raise the question, in the above statement? bb? Brian? Anyone? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Mar 15, 1999 at 02:08:57 (EST)
From: Zac Email: None To: Nim Subject: Foul Play? Message: I think even talk about it on this forum with absolutely no facts is another reason premies think people who post here are half-crazed. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Mar 15, 1999 at 02:18:02 (EST)
From: Nim Email: None To: Zac Subject: Foul Play? Message: Zac, Is that the reason why the question shouldn't be raised, because premies might think we're half crazed? Say it aint so, Zac. I just left such a place. Wasn't much fun. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Mar 15, 1999 at 02:26:10 (EST)
From: Runamok Email: None To: Nim Subject: cultist violence Message: The only reason I hesitate to talk about it is I don't it want it to happen to me. I don't care what premies think. They basically don't think. The M of the 70's had the unquestioned authority and many people wanted the chance to prove their devotion above and beyond the call of duty. The problem with a cult is that people are ready to do the dirty work and are on an active search for the dirtiest job they can find. That's the way it works and it's safer that way the for the object of affection/worship/cultistdevotion. What I'm saying is, it's wouldn't be as possible now, but in the past I definitely considered my own safety often in term of speaking out again M. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Mar 15, 1999 at 03:00:01 (EST)
From: Nim Email: None To: Runamok Subject: cultist violence Message: What I'm saying is, it's wouldn't be as possible now, but in the past I definitely considered my own safety often in term of speaking out again M. And I 've been talking to one guy in Montreal who was threatened by premies sometime in the latter 80's or early 90's when he started speaking out against m. I understand where you're coming from on this point, Run(at least I hope I do)but then again, it raises another question on my part. At what point then, do I draw the line? If we're dealing with people , who as you say ... basically don't think and people are ready to do the dirty work and are on an active search for the dirtiest job they can find well perhaps we're all better off not speaking out at all? What criteria should one use to evaluate a safe topic of conversation, that is one that won't incur the wrath of some deranged premie? And is a 'safe' conversation one, that's even worth having? Hmmm. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Mar 15, 1999 at 03:16:22 (EST)
From: Runamok Email: None To: Nim Subject: cultist violence Message: Oh, definitely, we need to talk about it. And, like I said, it's not as dangerous as it was once. M just doesn't have the power, and it probably is because of this website and earlier internet activity more than any other single reason. However, we still need to be cautious for our own sake. I mean, the dude talked people out of millions by claiming to be the messiah. That does give him a motive (although motive isn't proof). I have often wondered if M did it to Mishler. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Mar 15, 1999 at 07:19:08 (EST)
From: Zac Email: None To: Nim Subject: I know you did Nim! Message: And i know you put in approximately the same time as I did. I don't necessarily think it shouldn't be discussed. I did want to interject that because I wanted others to be aware of their audience if the discussion went there. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Mar 15, 1999 at 02:44:34 (EST)
From: Jethro Email: None To: Zac Subject: Foul Play? Message: 'I think even talk about it on this forum with absolutely no facts is another reason premies think people who post here are half-crazed.' i don't agree. I was around at that time and almost every premie believed that Guru Maharaj Ji killed him. I don't mean in the direct way but in the Godly- Karmic sort of thing. regards jethro Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Mar 15, 1999 at 07:22:44 (EST)
From: Zac Email: None To: Jethro Subject: Foul Play? Message: I know that was one of the unspoken signs he was the Lard. He summarily defeated his enemy who was about to publish a book about him. Now my bet is that Maharaji will try to beat the ex-forum to that book. His goons will be looking for Mishlers relatives tomorrow. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Mar 15, 1999 at 15:48:32 (EST)
From: Nim Email: None To: Zac Subject: Foul Play? Message: His goons will be looking for Mishlers relatives tomorrow. that is, if they haven't already found them. Zac, this is just speculation on my part, but we know that Bob was married to a premie. Here's where the speculation comes in. I've heard(not from a definitive source mind you, and that's why I say its only speculation) that while Bob made the break with m , his wife didn't, but nonetheless they(that is Bob and his wife) some how maintained their relationship. I'm wondering if this can be confirmed by bb, or if there's anyone else who might have some information on this. What I'm suggesting( again in a speculative manner) is this. If SHE was part of Bob's life at the time of his death, then SHE is the one who could very well have ended up with the copy of Bob's book. If that's the case, and if she was at the time still a 'premie' in terms of her relationship with m , well then SHE could very well be the link through which m's goons might already, have the manuscript of Bob's expose book on m. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Mar 15, 1999 at 01:59:29 (EST)
From: Zac Email: None To: bb Subject: Interesting reading Message: Often publishing houses will not return the manuscript copies, but I imagine they would have tossed it by now. The death notices would be on micro film at the library. In fact if someone lives in Miami and does check it out remember to look up that full page ad Mahrji took out in the Herald on May 29,30?,1978. His full color picture and the quote 'I will bring peace to the world' or 'Come to me and I will give you peace.' What was he thinking? drinking? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Mar 15, 1999 at 02:48:24 (EST)
From: Billy Email: None To: Nim Subject: Did maharaji kill Bob, Billy? Message: Your post is so entirely a product of pure fantasy...no, that's not fair to the words pure or fantasy....sick, paranoid nightmare is more like it, that to dignify ANY of it with a point-by-point reponse would be useless and a waste of time. Suffice to say, your need to prop up Bob Mishler comes from the fact that a fair bit of the mythology that fuels your list comes from his little interview. Since virtually all of your 'facts' and conclusions are completely askew, for the benefit of those here who may have a faint interest in reality and not just in shish-kebabing Maharaji, every single paragraph you wrote is entirely untrue and the essence of misinformation. Try to have a wee bit of restraint and keep your hellish, moth-infested theories to areas you have at least a vague notion about. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Mar 15, 1999 at 03:30:54 (EST)
From: Nim Email: None To: Billy Subject: Did maharaji kill Bob, Billy? Message: Suffice to say, your need to prop up Bob Mishler... He's dead, remember? It's extremely difficult to prop up dead people. You sure you ain't living a paranoid nightmare? BUT Billy-Nilly, about YOUR OBVIOUS NEED TO PROP UP MAHARAJI... considering you're such a big guy with probably a lot of information... you could be more helpful by sharing some of that info with us, instead of your psychotic, fuckbrain, revisionist dribble. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Mar 15, 1999 at 04:48:05 (EST)
From: Marshall Email: None To: Nim Subject: Did maharaji kill Bob, Billy? Message: Doesn't anyon else think it's a little odd that no one even knows how Mishler died? I mean that's a really big difference, to die of a heart attack or to die in a helicopter crash. If no one even knows how Bob Mishler died who's to say that Maharaji wasn't involved. He certainly had the most to gain by Mishler's death, and he also had the means(money and power) to get it done. Either way I doubt that Maharaji was broken up over Mishler's death. Of course there's no proof and it's just speculative, but at the very least I don't think its out of the realm of possibility and I don't really care if some brain dead gurunoids think I'm 'half crazed' to discuss it. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Mar 15, 1999 at 07:34:40 (EST)
From: Zac Email: None To: Marshall Subject: Think about it! Message: If Bob Mishler died in a rescue plane or helicopter crash after a heart attack then there is no chance Maharji had anything to do with it. Now how do we get our hands on his book! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Mar 15, 1999 at 11:48:11 (EST)
From: Runamok Email: None To: Zac Subject: Think about it! Message: Zac, Let's research what did happen from written sources and then discuss whether there was foul play. We do believe that M covered up a very serious assault and that he is heavyhanded with security. We also know that he has (and esp. has had) overzealous followers who are looking to do the dirty work of God. Look at the people who post gibberish all the time here. Are those the people we are worried about thinking we are paranoid? Those are people who are predisposed toward cultist fanaticism. There's no evidence that M did Mishler in but there is plenty of motive for it. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Mar 15, 1999 at 12:02:43 (EST)
From: Happy Email: None To: Runamok Subject: Think about it! Message: There's no doubt about it that Mishler's death came in very handy for M. I for one would sure like to have it clearly established whether he died from a heart attack, helicopter crash, or what. And, what happened to book he wrote, in which he was going to expose M? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Mar 15, 1999 at 12:31:31 (EST)
From: Zac Email: None To: Runamok & Happy Subject: Think about it! Message: Run, I believe that crazy person who post's here could be mentally ill. The cause of which is undetermined. Sometimes the words of the perceived Lord clashing with the natural instincts create disasterous side effects. I kinda feel sorry for the individual. I'd like to see the facts of Mischlers death. Maybe JW can do a nexus search for us or maybe someone knows where Mischler was from or something. Wasn't he married? His wife at the time may have the manuscript. We need some help from the readers. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Mar 15, 1999 at 14:01:19 (EST)
From: Orlando Email: None To: Zac Subject: too many spy movies Message: Here we go again... start a rumor and see it become a reality on this site... Nim is going way way out on a limb here and people are more than willing to jump on the band wagon. About Nim: he is also the one who claimed earlier on that Mataji was taken to the airport at gun point...hey it does not matter if it is true or not...just write it and it will be true... by the way, Nim being a Canadian, he probably never met Bob Michler, much less work with him, so he has no idea if the guy was respected or not if he was a crook or not if he was...whatever. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Mar 15, 1999 at 14:15:15 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: Orlando Subject: Rumor or investigation Message: Orlando: Unlike Billy, I think you can understand the difference between a rumor and 'some unanswered questions' that should be investigated. Watergate was a 'rumor' until it was investigated. Just about anything qualifies as a 'rumor' until it is investigated. The terms 'alleged' and 'rumored' are almost synonymous. So, there you go. BTW, I was around back then, too. I met and LIKED Bob. I would have gladly gone to any satsang where he was the featured speaker. He was a tireless, devoted, single-minded devotee. EVERYONE (except Billy, maybe) saw that and had a great amount of respect for it and him. Billy is the revisionist, not us. He would like everyone to THINK that no one liked Bob, but he is totally wrong. In fact, I don't have any reason to believe that Billy even knew OF Bob, much less actually met him. His remarks here seem to indicate that he has no idea who he is talking about. Additionally, when Bob died, I MYSELF wondered if M had anything to do with it. Bob's death left alot of unanswered questions, in my mind and left TONS of room for doubt. It was my very first experience of 'drip, drip, drip!' That's the truth! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Mar 15, 1999 at 14:27:05 (EST)
From: Orlando Email: None To: Mike Subject: Rumor or investigation Message: Hi Mike In the Watergate context, the reporters only reported what had ALREADY been verified. they did not publish rumors, even though they did research on the rumors to verify if they were facts. Here, nothing is verified. Speculations and rumors are not presented as such and it is very sad. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Mar 15, 1999 at 14:44:28 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: Orlando Subject: Rumor or investigation Message: Orlando: You said, 'Speculations and rumors are not presented as such and it is very sad.' Not true.... you just aren't reading the posts correctly. Let me give you an example: When you read, in a newspaper, the term 'alleged,' what does it mean to you? If it means anything other than 'rumored' then you aren't reading it correctly, because that's all it is.... a rumor.... and EVERYONE should know that. It ALWAYS a rumor until it's PROVEN! In the case of this thread, read it again. You will see things like, 'DID M HAVE Bob killed?' That's a QUESTION, not a rumor. A rumor would be, 'M is alleged to have had Bob done in,' etc, etc. A rumor doesn't have a (?) after it, it has a (.) or a (!) after it.... see what I mean? If you asked me whether I could believe that M would do something like that, I would probably say no. BUT, and this is a biggie, I wouldn't have believed that he would protect a muderous hammer-wielding mahatma (fakiranand) or a pedophile (jagdeo), either. AND YET, he has done those very things. So, now I'm not so sure about what he might or might not do. The fakiranand event, by the way, was another in a long list of 'drips' during my active premie career. I didn't know about jagdeo until fairly recently. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Mar 15, 1999 at 15:44:46 (EST)
From: Orlando Email: None To: Mike Subject: Rumor or investigation Message: Mike In newspapers, the term 'alleged' is NOT a rumor. it usually means that someone, say, has been arrested and is awaiting trial, but has not been judged guilty by a jury yet (in the trial). Newspaper have to use this term to avoid being sued in case the person is declared innocent... If we used the same policy here i would have no problem Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Mar 15, 1999 at 17:40:34 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: Orlando Subject: Rumor or investigation Message: Orlando: Alleged IS rumor until the person is found guilty. I won't mince words on this one. This is an open forum, not the final finished pages of a newspaper. Questions can be asked here and answers, summaries or conjecture can be given as answers. No one said, without any doubt, that M killed Bob or had him killed. The only thing that has happened is a 'question' was asked. A possibility discussed. No facts, yet, but the question has been asked, so I'm sure at least a few more facts will be forthcoming. Probably not conclusive, one way or the other. This forum is for discussion. A newspaper is NOT for discussion. There is a difference. Discussion does NOT equal rumor. I did notice that you conspicuously avoided talking about why I might think that he could possibly do such a thing. Fakiranand and Jagdeo? Remember? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Mar 15, 1999 at 15:10:07 (EST)
From: Nim Email: None To: Orlando Subject: too many spy movies Message: About Nim: he is also the one who claimed earlier on that Mataji was taken to the airport at gun point... Exactly, and that was confirmed by bb. by the way, Nim being a Canadian, he probably never met Bob Michler, ... On the contrary, I attended every single major event in North America during Bob's tenure as DLM president. You're right Orlando, that I never worked with him personally, but we did greet each other, say hello, shake hands on a couple of occasions, when our paths crossed at festivals. On top of his great intelligence and awesome communication skills, I found him to be in person a very genuine, warm human being. Considering, the heavy responsibilities he had assumed in his service to m, he was 'all there' to extend a hand of friendship to this little ashram premie from Montreal, or at least to say hello in a very warm and genuine way. He made me feel proud to be a premie. You on the other hand Orlando, make me feel ashamed that I ever was one. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Mar 15, 1999 at 15:50:40 (EST)
From: Orlando Email: None To: Nim Subject: too many spy movies Message: Nim You shook hands with Bob and you concluded everyone respected him. You never met me yet i 'make you ashame to ever have been a premie'... I think that you do have a tendency to exagerate a bit, Nimrod... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Mar 15, 1999 at 16:30:14 (EST)
From: Nim Email: None To: Orlando Subject: too many spy movies Message: Nim You shook hands with Bob and you concluded everyone respected him. Sorry, Orlando, but I concluded that ' everyone one respected him' because that's the way it seemed, that this guy was well liked and respected by a lot of people. In fact I'll say it again, that I never heard the kind of bullshit, revisionist hatred of Bob expressed by anyone, until it was expressed in this thread by Billy. My brief encounters with Bob supported a conclusion that I had ALLREADY formed, and not vice versa. You never met me yet i 'make you ashame to ever have been a premie'... I don't need to meet you Orlando, I've read your posts and observed the shameless way in which you jump all over some of the female participants in this forum, Gail in particular. Your pent up need to do this, fed by what I'm certain is nothing more than a thorougly unexamined, misogynistic contempt, can only speak of the fear you have for the sexual power of women, strong women in particular. And yes Orlando, shame, shame, shame!! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Mar 15, 1999 at 16:45:42 (EST)
From: Zac Email: None To: Orlando Subject: The X forum is an office not Message: the final edition. Imagine that this is the newspaper office where reporter's are discussing story lines, chasing down leads etc. You cannot critque the discussion that goes on here as though we are printing it on the front page of the Miami Herald. Every god damn word that is typed here is not the truth. Forget that. This is a work in progress. If you want material suitable for publishing just go to some of the auxillary sites. I personally don't find you to be annoying and I don't mind you catching me not thinking properly but don't try to 'freeze' the page with rumor becomes fact becomes history. If there is one thing that all of us have in common it's that we want the truth! Agreed? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Mar 15, 1999 at 17:13:00 (EST)
From: Billy Email: None To: Nim Subject: too many spy movies Message: Dear Nim, Not liking someone doesn't mean you hate them. I never hated Bob Mishler nor did I say I did. Hatred is a very strong word. You have a way of reading things that aren't there at all. If you really liked Bob personally, then you are the first person, even here, who has said as much. By the way, I'm glad you're getting so much mileage out of the words revisionism, revisionist etc. Glad I could contribute to the forum. Billy Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Mar 15, 1999 at 17:33:06 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: Billy Subject: Read the other posts, Billy Message: Billy: I and JW have both said that we liked Bob. I'll say it again, I met him, I liked him and I had alot of respect for this premie (as such). He was one of the most dedicated and single-minded premies that I ever met. I am not alone in this, either. There is not a single premie that I knew in those days that had anything bad to say about Bob..... NOT ONE! (and I knew quite a few premies) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Mar 15, 1999 at 19:35:43 (EST)
From: Nim Email: None To: Billy Subject: too many spy movies Message: It's hatred that comes across Bill-Nilly and nothing else. You said of Mishler, 'He was the epitome of a suit' You further called him an 'over-caffeined power tripper' and 'a controlling asshole.' Ok , so you didn't hate him, you just had an intense dislike for the guy, big fucking deal. By the way, I'm glad you're getting so much mileage out of the words revisionism, revisionist etc. Glad I could contribute to the forum. And we're glad you're here BILLY_NILLY_BOB. You know I'm beginning to develop a real fondness for you, a kind of brotherly bonding. It's really unfortunate you have that blindspot for m. You're probably a great guy, just a little confused. All the best Nim Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, Mar 16, 1999 at 16:52:13 (EST)
From: Orlando Email: None To: Nim Subject: Wow! Message: Dear Nim you write: 'I don't need to meet you Orlando, I've read your posts and observed the shameless way in which you jump all over some of the female participants in this forum, Gail in particular. Your pent up need to do this, fed by what I'm certain is nothing more than a thorougly unexamined, misogynistic contempt, can only speak of the fear you have for the sexual power of women, strong women in particular. And yes Orlando, shame, shame, shame' I write: To me, you are just a 'Jim Heller Wannabe' Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, Mar 16, 1999 at 17:06:17 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: Orlando Subject: Wannabe's Message: Orlando: There are much worse things to be than a crystal clear thinker. You may not like his delivery, but his message is right on the money (e.g. THINK for yourself). Yes, I can think of much worse things like: (1) Brainwashed cult member, (2) Liar, (3) Thief, (4) Conman, and last but definitely not least (5) Maharaji! Yup, give me Jim Heller any day of the week! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, Mar 16, 1999 at 22:12:13 (EST)
From: Nim Email: None To: Orlando Subject: Wow! Message: Just for the record, I'll state that I agree totally with the sentiments expressed by Mike as to the finer qualities of our friend Jim, that would make him more desireable as a role mode than lets say... someone like...yourself, Orlando. BTW Orlando, you totally ducked the main points of my post to you. That's something Jim doesn't do. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, Mar 16, 1999 at 00:33:20 (EST)
From: Miloochie Email: None To: Orlando Subject: too many cult crimes Message: Sorry Orlando, These are completely appropriate questions to ask. No one has put up anything on a page or made any claims of anything being a truth. This and other discussions will continue and spark investigations until ALL of the truth is out. Whatever turns out to be just 'questions' or idle speculation will be trounced by me and many others here. Until then, we shall dig, and like David stated above in 'For all those who've been hurt' will not be stopped by anyone. We lived with closed mouths for too long. Miloochie Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, Mar 16, 1999 at 23:45:51 (EST)
From: Liz Email: None To: Marshall Subject: Did maharaji kill Bob, Billy? Message: I don't think it's so outrageous to suppose Bob was bumped off - when you consider Fakiranands behaviour in protecting his Lord. Also Charanand almost broke his back protecting M's father. Does anyone know what sort of training M's body-guards go through? I expect there are many devotees that would give up their lives to save M. Who WAS flying that plane? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, Mar 16, 1999 at 21:38:04 (EST)
From: Nil, not Bill Email: None To: Nim Subject: You Nimrod! Message: ...you really bring it alive with your acid vein, fuckbrain bastardization of the truth. Nimrod, up to your old vomit-coated mindless drivel again I see. What the FUCK do you know about why Mishler was canned?? ...you with a consciousness slightly above that of a colony of fungal bacteria. What wall were you a fly upon when the whole thing went down? Bet you think you could eat M for breakfast too... eh tough guy? You know asshole, most people's valor lives somewhere between their head and their stomach but yours lives somewhere between your two butt-cracks. Fuck you Nimrod... 'kay? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, Mar 16, 1999 at 21:58:59 (EST)
From: Nim Email: None To: Nil, not Bill Subject: You Silly Nilly!! Message: What the FUCK do you know about why Mishler was canned?? .. About as much as you Nilly-Billy. You see, both of us know the truth Nil. The difference between me and you asshole, is that I'm willing to deal with the truth, whereas you have to bastardize it to save your mahaslimey's ass. You know asshole, most people's valor lives somewhere between their head and their stomach but yours lives somewhere between your two butt-cracks.(emphasis my own) Words that could only be spoken, by the official spokesman for THE MAN WHO SHITS ON GOLD TOILETS. Keep up,the good work Nil. If you don't ,the man will be shitting on you. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, Mar 16, 1999 at 22:47:03 (EST)
From: Nil Email: None To: Nim Subject: You Silly Nilly!! Message: >>What the FUCK do you know about why Mishler was canned?? >About as much as you Nilly-Billy. Right, and at least I admit it. The only 'truth' you know is what you see through the glasses of your own-chosen color. Someone did try to show you the Truth once upon a time but you seemed to know too much about it to see it. As for the details, you wouldn't recognize your own asshole from a hole in the ground... let alone the truth. You see nimrod, if you really, realy knew the truth, you'd be a fuck of a lot more humbled by it than you are. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 00:31:43 (EST)
From: Runamok Email: None To: Nil Subject: You Silly Nilly!! Message: Yes Nil, you are such a humble and meek servant of God. I couldn't help but feel that about you as soon as you started posting. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 01:00:25 (EST)
From: Nim Email: None To: Nil Subject: You Silly Nilly!! Message: Someone did try to show you the Truth once upon a time but you seemed to know too much about it to see it.(emphasis my own) Are you referring to the fact that I might have known all along that the 'Truth' here is, that Maharaji is in fact a con? You're right. 'But never leave room for doubt in your mind,' remember that revisionist boy??!! I'll leave the final word on humility to Run. Nothing more to say to you. Except this, Nil. YOU NEED HELP NIL>>>YOU ARE A VERY NOT WELL PERSON> PLEASE I BEG OF YOU TAKE CARE OF YOURSELF> Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Mar 12, 1999 at 17:40:35 (EST)
From: Nim Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Tales of Nimrod Vol.1 Message: Preface Tales of Nimrod is a work in progress Copyright Pending The author Nim wishes to dedicate this volume to Jim Heller aka Darth Vader and to Katie aka Princess Lea I love you both So let's talk it over Call me in the morning When my heart will be sober Nim Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Mar 12, 1999 at 19:57:54 (EST)
From: Nim Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Tales of Nimrod Vol.1 Part1 Message: Author's Dedication I dedicate part1 of Tales of Nimrod Vol.1 To my precious sister SANDRA For the Lord made her so sweet, She must surely be all armpit Nim ****************************************************************** PART 1 A TALE OF TWO MAHATMAS I believe that a question that is on many people's minds these days,(that is both ex-premies and pwk's) is how could it happen, that m knowing what he did regarding Mahatma Jagdeo, failed to do anything appropriate about these serious allegations of child molestation. Jagdeo was allowed to carry on in his service to m, and other incidents occurred. By allowing Jagdeo to carry on in his service , m was in effect throwing his support behind him, propping him up instead of letting him fall. Perhaps it was decided by m and his top PAMers at the time, that as long as there didn't seem to be any imminent threat of legal challenges,well then , nothing had to be done. There was no need therefor to punish Jagdeo. THe matter could simply be swept under the rug. However m processed the information in this situation, whatever the ethical considerations he considerd or didn't consider in arriving at his decision or indecision, the point that I would like to make here, is that a despicable, slimey, creep like Jagdeo (and by the accounts of so many who met him he was indeed exactly that) was allowed to carry on in his service, to carry on with his life as though HE HAD DONE NO SERIOUS WRONG. Now this is a story of another mahatma that has already been told on these pages, and which was relayed to me in a chat that I had with Gail, and it is in juxtaposition with this story that I believe we ought to consider the first. Its the story of Mahatma Rajeshwar. Now I know that many of you remember Mahatmaji. He was exceptionally popular, well-liked and yes, even loved by many premies in the west... and for good reason. Yes, he was part of a cult, in fact he was one of its leading apostles and spokespersons, but he was also a fundamentally decent man, a beautiful man who genuinely cared for those around him. Having seved as a judge, a career which he gave up to serve m, he somehow had a more realistic and balanced view of the world, as compared to some of the other mahatmas whom m brought to the west. In fact some of the mahatmas I met seemed to be totally uneducated psychotic, babblers of m's rhadasoamiism. If you had a problem of course, it was because you hadn't yet surrendered your life at the lotus feet of Shri Guru Maharaji. But Rajeshwar was different. Not that m wasn't the LOTU for him, but he was so down to earth , so personable, for myself and many others he really stood apart from the other mahatmas. Now I saw Rajeshwar in Toronto in 1984. I hadn't seen him for a while. We went for a summer's stroll along with a few premies. I was surprised when he told me that he was no longer a mahatma, that he was just visiting at the invitation of some premies in the west. He didn't really speak of what had happened to him, but I could see that Rajeshwar was just not the same guy. The man's dynamism, his joy in being alive had somehow taken a serious beating. I did not know then what I know now. That his wife was seriously sick in India, and Rajeshwar wanting to be with her, was refused permission by m to to go back to India. If I have the details of the rest of the story correct(and someone please correct me if I don't) Rajeshwar disobeyed m and went back to India anyways to be with his wife as she died. For this, m stripped Rajeshwar of his mahatmaship, and I believe in a brutal callous fashion, caused him grievous emotional and psychological harm, that I do pray he recovers from(and I do hope that he's doing ok...if someone could tell me that would be nice) So here we have our two mahamas and their tale. Question: How come an utter slimeball like Jagdeo who's very presence is a curse on this planet, gets to survive, even thrive in m's world... and why does such a fundamentally decent and beautiful man, who's presence was always a joy to so many around him... become so humiliated and hurt by the very Lord/Master he so diligently and faithfully served.? I believe in answering that question, one can discover the fundamental nature of m's slime. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Mar 13, 1999 at 11:43:46 (EST)
From: dv Email: None To: Nim Subject: Tales of Nimrod Vol.1 Part1 Message: I liked Rajashwar too. I heard a rumor he had cancer and then was cured, I think around the time he left. Probably a cover up story. I remember the days he used to cook up a storm of indian food, with so much spicy mustard seed smoke I had to run out of the house for fear my eyes would melt out of my face! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sun, Mar 14, 1999 at 01:13:01 (EST)
From: Nim Email: None To: dv Subject: Tales of Nimrod Vol.1 Part1 Message: I remember the days he used to cook up a storm of indian food, with so much spicy mustard seed smoke I had to run out of the house for fear my eyes would melt out of my face! Ya, I remember a real cookfest in the ashram in Montreal where food was being prepared for the entire premie commununity. Rajeshwar really got into the cooking! Oh and of course you remember his favorite expression, a meeting without eating is cheating Thanks for answering dv...and take care. Nim Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Mar 15, 1999 at 17:46:01 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: Nim Subject: Tales of Nimrod Vol.1 Part1 Message: Nim: Yes, I remember that saying well. I still have fond memories of rajeswar. He is the one that headed my K-session. A very intelligent and delightful guy (at least my experiences of him). Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, Mar 16, 1999 at 04:03:17 (EST)
From: Nim Email: None To: Mike Subject: Thanks Mike:)(nt) Message: nt Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sun, Mar 14, 1999 at 02:19:15 (EST)
From: Jethro Email: None To: dv Subject: RE: Rajeswar Message: Hi dv During the late 70s rajeswar was nanned from giving satsang(can't remember why). It was my service to be his personal security during this time. He sure was a sad fellow. I never exactly knew why he was banned....probably for being too human. I have good memories of him. When I went to India (circa 1983) he took me around Delhi to meet some of his important friends who he wanted to meet as Western devotee. I don't know what happened to him. The last I heard of him was a letter I refeived circa 1984, inviting me to his daughter's wedding. all the best Jethro Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sun, Mar 14, 1999 at 12:17:18 (EST)
From: Nim Email: None To: Jethro Subject: RE: Rajeswar Message: Thanks Jethro, for letting me know. Nim:) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sun, Mar 14, 1999 at 13:00:10 (EST)
From: Selene Email: None To: Nim Subject: off topic Message: I couldn't email you Nim. It bounced twice, first I tried a reply than a compose from scratch. nada. I am going out today. Gotta see the other world for a while!! I'll check email later. (no other mail is bouncing so I am not sure what is up) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Mar 15, 1999 at 04:05:50 (EST)
From: ex-mug Email: None To: Jethro Subject: RE: Rajeswar Message: having spent quite a bit of time with Rajeswar, I found the guy to be wonderful company - one time he cooked a few of us a great Indian supper and the whole evening was filled with laughter and good feeling. He is a genuinely kind and compassionate man. In retrospect, I now realise that it was people like Rajeswar that gave Maharaji any credibility in my eyes - if they were followers of M then their must be something good about M, surely. I made a mistake in thinking that way. Actually, the great people who I spent time with in the ashram etc were great people regardless of M. ex- Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Mar 15, 1999 at 10:57:31 (EST)
From: Jethro Email: None To: ex-mug Subject: EX_MUG Message: 'Actually, the great people who I spent time with in the ashram etc were great people regardless of M.' Yo bro...well said. All praise to the true Guru which is our own selves.....said by me in satsang the day before I was thrown out onto the streets by Dick Cooper's orders. Love from Jethro Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Mar 15, 1999 at 17:58:53 (EST)
From: Miloochie Email: None To: Jethro Subject: EX_MUG Message: Hi Jethro, There's a lot of posts that really 'get' me and yet I don't respond or acknowledge with a posting. 'Sometimes just because I can't afford to use up that much time in a day. I just had to let you know how much I 'got' (no Esthole jargon intended) how much that must have REALLY HURT. With so much riding on it. 'So much invested. 'So much betrayal. 'So indicative of the personal testimonials here that continue to grow in numbers. 'All the evidence anyone needs. Premies/Pwks: Know him by his fruits. --------- Anyway, have a great day, Jethro. Miloochie Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Mar 15, 1999 at 19:56:36 (EST)
From: Jethro Email: None To: Miloochie Subject: Thanks Miloochie (nt) Message: Just a smile :>) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, Mar 16, 1999 at 12:09:06 (EST)
From: ex-mug Email: None To: Jethro Subject: a lot of.... Message: sincere people dedicated their lives to Maharaj ji, and enjoyed each other's company. Of course their were the assholes who seemed more concerned about personal advancement within the cult hierachy - the ones who wanted more and more power - and I came across quite a few like that. I think some of them are now reformed and ex-assholes, and also happen to be ex-followers of the Great Fakir. I had many arrogant moments I'm sure, after all I was one of the chosen disciples of the living lord - cringe!!! I apologies for those times when I was an asshole! I apologies to my parents and former friends for giving them a hard time.....up yours Maharaj ji!!!!!!!!!!! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, Mar 16, 1999 at 13:06:38 (EST)
From: Jethro Email: None To: ex-mug Subject: EX-MUG re:Penny Message: Ex-mug, I'm not sure if you know that Penny (Milky Coles wife) died of an overdose. I spoke to her some days before it happened and she was trying to recover from being raped. She told me that she had contacted Milky for some support and he told her that it was her karma. I wonder what his karma will be! I am so ashamed that I was around these fucking scum bags. Penny was one of the brightest lights. I know you remember her from when she was an aspirant and she came to our ashram. Love from Jethro Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, Mar 16, 1999 at 17:47:02 (EST)
From: ex-mug Email: None To: Jethro Subject: Jethro re:Penny Message: Ah Jethro, you told me about Penny's death a while ago, and it still hurts me. Penny and I were very close at one time - she was a really beautiful person. You did a wonderful job of supporting her as a friend, as good as anyone could do, but Cardif is a long way from London, and I think that Penny had deep emotional problems which made her turn to drink and drugs - she was very attractive and a lot of unscrupulous guys fucked her about, and the final straw was getting involved with and marrying Milky Cole - a real bastard for telling her that being raped was her karma - my heart goes out to her. However, she also attracted loving friends like us and she lived with a good guy, John C. for a long time, who really loved and looked after her. Maybe we will meet her again somewhere, who knows. love ex- Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, Mar 16, 1999 at 23:23:21 (EST)
From: Liz Email: None To: Jethro Subject: EX-MUG re:Penny Message: I can believe Milky Cole would say that. He betrayed my trust three times during my life and I always remember these events: they stick out like a sore thumb. I don't want to mention them here but would like to correspond via E-mail. regards, Liz. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 02:31:37 (EST)
From: Jethro Email: cadbury@compuserve.com To: Liz Subject: To LIZ Message: Liz my email is in the above box. regards Jethro Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Mar 13, 1999 at 11:05:07 (EST)
From: Leia Email: None To: Nim Subject: Tales of Nimrod Vol.1 Message: Thanks for the dedication, Nim...although I'm not sure how Darth will feel about it :). I really liked the poem, too - you were obviously DIVINELY inspired. BTW, did you get my e-mails? I had some trouble with things bouncing back. Love, Leia (Thanks for the new persona too - I can always use another one!) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Mar 13, 1999 at 16:15:29 (EST)
From: Nim Email: None To: Leia Subject: Tales of Nimrod Vol.1 Message: :). I really liked the poem, too - you were obviously DIVINELY inspired. Thanks Leia. Of course all that time spent with the mahapoet is now beginning to reap major dividends. Calling Jim Darth, and yourself Leia was just my way of poking fun at our little family slugfest of last week. I think Jim knows I love him like a brother...And I want you to know that I feel the same for you...like a sister. JUST PLEASE DON'T MAKE ME WRITE ANOTHER POEM TO PROVE IT! Thank you for your ems, yes they have been received.(my correct log on name is jfb and not jbf... I may have contributed to that little bit of confusion... I often forget myself, what my correct log on name really is) I'll get back to you later on in the week. In the meantime, thank you. Really. And you know, you really are a princess. Love, Nim:) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Mar 12, 1999 at 15:29:18 (EST)
From: Runamok Email: None To: Everyone Subject: We got you a premie forum Message: And yet you still think you are God's gift to the ex-premie forum. Where is it exactly that you want us to 'leave'? You claim we are in a certain place and that we should leave? Being against M and willing and wanting to express ourselves about it is not a place. Where do you think we would go? Expressing yourself in cute cliches isn't equivalent to actually addressing the issues. You would like us to say that our issues with Miragey are not major issues and that we are blowing past problems out of proportion. The truth is, giving years of one's life, or LARGE sums of money are major issues. This is without going into more serious issues of abuse. On a more negative note, the inablity of Mirage to be held accountable for his own claims (in the form of direct quotes and written statements) aggravates our claims. I didn't claim I would establish peace on earth and I didn't claim to be God or greater than God. But you know what? I never would have given what I gave if I hadn't been duped by these claims. A little Chit (consciousness) Chat. A consciousness chat. So if you don't like it, you don't have to post here. But you really do like it. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Mar 12, 1999 at 12:34:38 (EST)
From: Mickey the Pharisee Email: None To: Everyone Subject: 'That Beautiful Feeling' Message: Since the former LOTU is unable or unwilling to defend himself, I notice that his minions have decided to do so on his behalf, and such a fine job they are doing, too! I mean, two visits from members of the Reaper family in one week! Did M recently use that word in a video so that you are working it into your feeble vocabulary? If K really works for you, why do you need to come here and attack those who are dealing with painful issues? Why are you so incapable of empathy? If K is so beautiful and completes your life, why are you incapable of showing any love for others? When I was a premie, I heard a lot about love, but one of the truths which helped me leave was the realization that, for all the talk about love, I never really experienced love among the premies. And the actions of several premies on this site illustrate this lack of love. Do you really think that by picking on Selene and Gail and G's Mom you are helping spread K? Do you really think that by spewing your mis-spelled, hate-filled missives on this site that people will want to have what you have? Do you think that by calling us losers and victims that you some how elevate premiedom and M? Do you ever use your brain? Start attacking me for the honor of your Lord; I can take it, but think about what you are doing and what you are saying here. If you are serious about the good you claim K and M have done for you, prove it by acting with love. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Mar 12, 1999 at 12:44:21 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: Mickey the Pharisee Subject: Perfect Mickey... Message: MP: Well said, indeed! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Mar 12, 1999 at 13:01:40 (EST)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Mickey the Pharisee Subject: exactly!!! :) (nt) Message: jqp92u5 Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Mar 12, 1999 at 13:23:01 (EST)
From: biff Email: None To: Mickey the Pharisee Subject: 'That Beautiful Feeling' Message: What you wrote here is right on. The thing is though I can't figure out if these people really are premies or if they're simply internet flame baiting trolls who've somehow arrived at this site. In the end I guess we have to take people at face value but I really have my doubts about a lot of these people. If they really are premies then they must be embarrassing to a certain extent, the other premies that post here. Hey mili, whatcha think of these people? They poseurs or for real? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Mar 12, 1999 at 13:49:28 (EST)
From: barney Email: None To: biff Subject: We can Think clearly again! Message: Mickey, Your posts on this issue have been incredible. We owe this jerk(s) a real thanks (even though I'd wish they'd go away) for providing the opportunity to show the benefit and value of Thinking, critical analyses, and empathy. All of which the Cult seeks to destroy in the name of That experience. I've only been out of the damn cult for 18 months or so and that premie cult think stuff is still bouncing around in my head. I had some twenty five years of brainwashing. Reading such clarity is moving me away from Maharaji and his sick crap. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Mar 12, 1999 at 22:06:14 (EST)
From: SHP Email: None To: Mickey the Pharisee Subject: I LOVE YOU MICKEY! Message: Really. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sun, Mar 14, 1999 at 10:10:38 (EST)
From: Luv Email: None To: Mickey the Pharisee Subject: Very Well Said MP Message: I think it's necessary to keep reminding the PAM of what you.ve just posted. There's allot of truth/wisdom in what you've said. Thanks for the clearity. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sun, Mar 14, 1999 at 10:46:15 (EST)
From: SHP Email: None To: Luv Subject: What's good for the premie... Message: ...is good for the exer. I think it holds true for PAMs and exers alike, as MP said so honestly that he is guilty of many of the same things he straightend me out on. It's a human thing, not a PAM vs. EX thing. Our respective premie/ex-premie status does not presuppose a negative relationship between us, as I see it, Luv. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sun, Mar 14, 1999 at 10:55:18 (EST)
From: SHP Email: None To: Luv Subject: Correction / Luv Message: Sorry. My above post was in reference to Mickey's post on the 'whatever you want to call it' further up the thread. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Mar 12, 1999 at 06:21:36 (EST)
From: cp Email: None To: Gerry Subject: patent Message: Can one search for the patent info on the net? Would you tell me where to look? I can hear you above the din. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Mar 12, 1999 at 06:37:04 (EST)
From: REX Email: NONE To: cp Subject: patent Message: ANSWER TO QUESTION ONE. OF COURSE QUESTION 2. PUT AN I IN PATENT AND U GET PATIENT, AS IN B PATIENT, LOOK INSIDE, IT IS THERE, HERE, EVERYWHERE. ABOVE THE DIN, BELOW DA DIN, WHATEVER, EH FREDDY? DO U GUYS LIKE CHINESE FOOD? CHITCHAT CHITCHAT CHIT THIS Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Mar 12, 1999 at 07:48:52 (EST)
From: Mary M Email: mem_mcgraw@msn.com To: REX Subject: patent Message: Speaking of Chits, Shouldn't you be off drinking chi somewhere? M Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Mar 12, 1999 at 05:18:29 (EST)
From: REX REAPER Email: NONE To: Everyone Subject: RAGin Message: China just stole American nuclear technology, real people are struggling with simple survival techniques, and you guys are ragging about whose screwin who, and on and on. Leave his family and friends out of it. Leave if you don't like it. Talk about chit chat. You guys should call this site the chit chat line. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Mar 12, 1999 at 05:37:32 (EST)
From: cult leader Ferddy Email: None To: everyone Subject: RAGin Message: Yea! I agree! Get the hell out of here! you are all banished from my cult. There is no EX-PREMIE CULT anymore. Go on! Shoo! Go home! Scat! Leave me here to wollow in my own self-loathing. Poor Me, Poor Me, Poor Me. AAAHHHHH....I feel better already. O.K, O.K.....The cult is back in business LINE UP LOSERS!!!! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Mar 12, 1999 at 14:10:55 (EST)
From: Doofus Devotee Email: None To: cult leader Ferddy Subject: At your service my Lord! Message: Lord Ferddy, I'm confused again. Who is this Raging Rex Reaper? Is he a premie? Is he an enemy? Tell me what to do, my Lord. I await your command. Can I hit him on the head with a hammer? Please? Please say yes, oh please, please. We'll show him who's boss! (Note to Editors: Threat of violence was strictly fictional.) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Mar 12, 1999 at 07:47:20 (EST)
From: Mary M Email: mem_mcgraw@msn.com To: REX REAPER Subject: RAGin Message: Hmmmmm.... Sounds to me like we're hitting some triggers. Is the list hitting to close to the truth REX? I do recall Rawat suggesting to his second tier in command that followers ask their friends, relatives, even the man on the street for funds if necessary. All's fair game here. M Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Mar 12, 1999 at 09:49:08 (EST)
From: John Email: None To: Mary M Subject: Hey Mary Message: I really dig your posts! You mentioned the Rome festival somewhere in a thread. I really should have left the guru cult after that festival because I saw all the problems mothers with their children had, and how no one seemed to care, much less the guru in charge of it all; also I just saw how absurd it was to travel all that ways to sit in that wierd bull ring and wait for the guru to show up and scream at us. To hear him say the same things he has always said. And yet, I somehow pushed away those gut feelings I had. I remember I would justify whatever stupid stuff I saw go on with, 'oh well, the spiritual path is not easy' or 'Yeah, but it was their choice (mothers with children) to come.' or 'The guru is not here to make our lives easier, he's revealing the Ultimate Truth!' or 'we have to learn surrender' (which was his favorite word back then.) or one of my favorites: 'he's supposed to blow our concepts'. That works for anything. Any idiotic stuff can be totally explained by that one! Oh, you had the concept that the Ultimate Truth was supposed to make people nice? Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!!! Or, you had the concept that the Ultimate Truth was somehow linked to doing good in the world? Ha ha ha ha ha !!! Someone was saying something, I think it was shp, about doing 'service' at an event and just how incredibly rude the people in charge were to him and his wife, and then I think someone was saying well people are ass holes everywhere, not just in M's cult. But you know, I don't believe that. I have been involved in a church for about 10 years, and I've done a lot of setting up of chairs and doing mundane volunteer work at various places, and I've been involved with the PTA. And ya know, I usually have a great time because people do NOT act like ass holes! If they did, I would not continue belonging to those organizations! Most people at volunteer events are nice. Why was it that there were so many unbelievable jerks at the guru's events? I think it's because there was a huge lie happening. There was something rotten at the core of it all and it affected people in all kinds of weird ways. John - happily devoured by the sharks of the mind Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Mar 12, 1999 at 09:52:00 (EST)
From: Happy Email: None To: Mary M Subject: Hey Mary Message: Yes, I really like your posts too. Keep posting. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Mar 12, 1999 at 20:11:04 (EST)
From: Mary M Email: mem_mcgraw@msn.com To: Happy & John Subject: Hey Mary Message: Glad to be here! However, I can get quite contrary sometimes. Warning ---- Following is not for the Humor-Impaired ----- Am presently ruminating on an Ex-Premie Forum Post entitled 'Top Ten Things That Would Drive Rawat and Rawat Lurkers Ballistic if Posted' Number Ten (Drum Roll): Rawat reads of someones intimate encounter with one of his paramours and discovers he's not 'Lord of the Universe' in the conjugal department. In fact it was whispered he's just a 'Wee Little Willie'. (Bud a bam - bud a boom) Numbe Nine: Oh well you get the jist! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Mar 12, 1999 at 10:08:38 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: REX REAPER Subject: Ah, shut-up REX Message: Rex: Some of those simple people struggling for survival are premies that give their last dollar to this con-man. What does the con-man use the dollars for???? GOLD TOILETS! Yeah, let's just leave M alone and let him continue..... Yeah, right! Rex, if you don't like what's posted here, then LEAVE! Signed, Lover of Chit-Chat (much more useful than K) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Mar 12, 1999 at 13:06:02 (EST)
From: ex-mug Email: None To: REX REAPER Subject: RAGin Message: Chit Chat is one hundred times more interesting than M and his con, which is total boredom. But - most of the discussions here are not for the purpose of aimlessly whiling away the time, therefore NOT ChitChat. When I was a premie I left my brain with my shoes at the door. On the way out of M's cult I put my shoes on, placed my brain back in my head (where it belongs) and turned the switch to 'on'. With M and his world life was very dull and corporate - without M, life is now WONDERFUL !!!!!!!! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Mar 13, 1999 at 14:31:05 (EST)
From: g's mom Email: None To: ex-mug Subject: chit chat Message: Ah...the memories come flooding back...I had completely forgotten about that lesser known commandment...thou shalt not chit chat. The prohibition against chit chat was obviously quite unsuccessful. Premies were much more gossips than the people I know in the 'world' my ex premie life. I can easily see why Rawat didn't want the premies talking about anything but special 'K' to eachother....less control over the info disseminated, people saying 'hey, that happened to you too?', opportunities for critisism, etc. Of course chit chat was a no no. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Mar 13, 1999 at 18:05:25 (EST)
From: chr Email: None To: g's mom Subject: chit chat Message: Around the time I was leaving M & K (1988) I spoke to an old friend who had become an instructor. I began telling her some of the things I had been experiencing in meditation and she cut me off by saying that M did not want people talking about their experiences in meditation. I think it was then that I really realised that I was in a cult. I went to see M about a year later, more out of curiosity than anything else, and, listening with 'new ears',was astounded by the amount of convoluted, irrelevant drivel in his satsang and the way the premies laughed on cue at every inane, insipid, childish joke. As with everything else, it was one rule for the master, another for the devotees. BTW, I am still coming to terms with your information about Jagdeo. I knew him quite well and am aware of quite a few mothers who came with their children to do service at the ashram when he was there, specifically to support him. Many times we ( the ashram brothers) were at work while Jagdeo was with these mothers and children. I am hoping nothing occurred at these times. It is a sore and sensitve area with me as my own daughter( now 26) was molested over a 4 year period by her stepfather-a premie- while I was oblivious in the ashram. When the ashrams were disbanded , she came and lived with me for her teenage years and I tried to make up for my desertion of her. A lot of counselling and a lot of love helped heal the wounds, but she still bears the inner scars of that time. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sun, Mar 14, 1999 at 00:16:05 (EST)
From: g's mom Email: None To: chr Subject: chit chat Message: That is really scary about the Ashram and so sad about your daughter. I hope she is doing well. We can only hope the moms did not leave the kids with Jagdeo while they did laundry or whatever. What year was this do you think that they would come to do service with the kids? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Mar 15, 1999 at 03:20:39 (EST)
From: chr Email: None To: g's mom Subject: Over the period 79-81(nt) Message: nt Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Mar 15, 1999 at 11:14:39 (EST)
From: g's mom Email: None To: chr Subject: Over the period 79-81(nt) Message: well, that totally sucks. That was after I reported it. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Mar 12, 1999 at 02:43:38 (EST)
From: Jethro Email: None To: Sandra Subject: Hey Sandra you forgot Message: to answer the first part of my post. I am sure it was just an oversite that seems to be common amongst rowatt lovers, anyway here it is again. Sandra, So the fact that M has protected people like jagdeo by his silence makes no difference to you. The fact that YOU are having a 'wonderful experience' gives M license to do anything. Is that right? Jethro Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Mar 12, 1999 at 13:16:56 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: Jethro Subject: Jethro, you got it exactly Message: Jethro: That's EXACTLY what they (active premies) are saying.... every last one of them (by their OWN silence on the subject!) Silent assent isn't just M's problem, it's a premie problem, too. 'Say nothing about anything that doesn't affect me personally.... that's the ticket.' Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Mar 12, 1999 at 02:21:20 (EST)
From: cult leader Ferddy Email: None To: Everyone Subject: ex-premie cult Message: Welcome to our club house. AS you can see, we are a little band of loosers and whiners. Our lives suck and it makes us so sad. Should we blame ourselves? Hell no!!! This is the 90's. Everyone can be a victim. Being a victim is the IN thing now days. It sure beats taking responsibility for our own lives. If you can blame someone else for the pathetic condition you've gotten yourself into....join the club. Admisssion is free. All you have to do is have hate in your heart and be a coward. You must blame someone else for the decissions you made in your life. And you must hate that person with all your might. There...dont you feel better already? So dont forget our rules. 1. Hate,Hate,Hate (you know who) 2. be a victim.....Its so chic! 3. Remember, you have to blame someone...(you know who) 4. Remain in the company of other VICTIMS and LOSERS (try hanging out here) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Mar 12, 1999 at 02:31:04 (EST)
From: barney Email: None To: cult leader Ferddy Subject: He's right! Good-bye Losers! Message: Ferddy, Your post has done what I didn't think could happen to me, but you've convinced me that this is all wrong. In fact, sick and wrong. I'm not a loser. I'm not a whiner. I'm no longer a victim. I no longer hate HIM. They were solely my decisions and there was no influence from Maharaji or the premies. Thank you, Ferddy. Thank you, thank you, thank you. You don't know what this means to me. I don't know how you did it, but I'm completely changed and reborn. Years of therapy, imprisonment, institutionalization, electo-convulsive therapy, and a lobotomy were useless and did nothing. And now you've come and saved me from my own doing. Where to now, Ferddy. You've spoken, I've awoken. And I'm ready to follow. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Mar 12, 1999 at 02:38:59 (EST)
From: I want to join Email: None To: cult leader Ferddy Subject: ex-premie cult Message: When does the pitty party start? All together now.....POOR ME, POOR ME, POOR ME. AHHHHH......Sweet Release! I hate the Guru, I hate the Guru, I hate the Guru...Its all his fault. Im just the victim here. OOOOHHHHH AAAAAHHHH! This is GREAT!!!! Im a VICTIM, Im a VICTIM, Im a VICTIM...YYYYEEEESSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Mar 12, 1999 at 02:55:08 (EST)
From: Barney Email: None To: I want to join Subject: premie cult Message: Bhole Shri SatGuru Dev Maharaj Kai Jai! Jai Satchitanand! That love, that place, that feeling, that joy, that bliss, this life. Can't you feel the power? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Mar 12, 1999 at 02:59:53 (EST)
From: observer Email: None To: barney Subject: ex-premie cult Message: So you moved from one cult to another? Wise move doofus! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Mar 12, 1999 at 03:12:05 (EST)
From: Mister Doofus Email: None To: observer Subject: ex-premie cult Message: Of course I'm doofus. You know, you gotta be doofus, you know, to be in That place, you know, with That Guy doing That so, so , so beautful thing trying to get That feeling and That joy, you know. You know, brother. I'm feeling like I'm in my mind right now. Or maybe you're in my mind. I don't know. I'm so confused. I'm going to sing Arti and meditate, no, I mean practice now. I love Light. I pressed really hard last Saturday night and I saw Him in the Light. I know I did, you know. See ya, at 5:30 for Arti. Don't forget to cook up the Ghi. Jai Satchitanand! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Mar 12, 1999 at 04:34:04 (EST)
From: Sir David Email: None To: cult leader Ferddy Subject: ex-premie cult Message: I think you'd have a bit more clout if you could learn to spell your own name. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Mar 12, 1999 at 04:44:09 (EST)
From: Mister Doofus Email: None To: Sir David Subject: The Cult of Ferddy Message: Shri Ferddy has left the building brother. Please return to your your seat and watch the so, so beautiful video that Shri Ferddy has made expecially for this program. When it ends please exit to the hallway and consider putting some real money into the cash buckets. And, don't forget that the Sales Hall will stay open for only one more hour. Jai Satchitanand! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Mar 12, 1999 at 04:40:25 (EST)
From: AJW Email: None To: cult leader Ferddy Subject: Long Winding Road Message: Ferddy, You're missing an experience to enhance your life here. So near, yet so far away. I suggest you find the nearest bunch of Premies, go along to an introductory video (it's cool, it's simply meditation stuff, nothing to join, you'll feel great). Once you've understood that there's an infinite wealth of joy within, then get initiated. All will be revealed. From this deep inner experience, you'll come to recognise the one who revealed it as the Lord in human form. Then begin serving him. The best way is to help out a bit financially- not that he's into money, it's just more practical. Who knows, you might even get a position in the organisation. Soon you'll start to see that only the premies really know what's happening on the planet. The other 3000 million are all deluded. You'll be one of the chosen ones. Then, finally, you'll wake up one morning and say, 'Shit. I've been brainwashed. I'm in a cult. I never thought it could happen to me, but it did.' Then Ferddy my friend, you'll be ready to come on this site and reap the true joy, the true benefit and satisfaction of being an Ex-premie. It's an experience that you have to have for yourself. It can't be described in mere words. It's akin to joy, liberation, happiniess, but somehow, beyond them all. It's a long and winding road. Anton le Heretic Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Mar 12, 1999 at 05:26:19 (EST)
From: cult leader Ferddy Email: None To: AJW Subject: Long Winding Road Message: I am the god of whiners and losers, victims and.... (cant think of a word that rhymes here, but you get the idea) I have come to lead this little group of do da's to a place where you can all bitch in peace. So line up boys and girls....you are on the ex-premie express to nowhere! Are you starting to feel all warm and tinglely yet? Just continue visiting this sight and believe everything you read here. Its the truth. Why, no one here would have reason to fib or exagerate. No one here could have some kind of agenda that would cause them to...you know...BS just a little. We Are Free!!!!! WWWWEEEEEEE!!!!! And you can be too. Yes you my friend. You crazy bastard! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Mar 12, 1999 at 06:02:04 (EST)
From: Bob Brown Email: None To: cult leader Ferddy Subject: Long Winding Road Message: I like you, can you play lead guitar? p.s. Do u no what nt means? besides from some windows operating system......................................................................................... ..... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Mar 12, 1999 at 12:16:52 (EST)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Bob Brown Subject: Bob, nt=no text, read post Message: Dear Bob, I am not sure if you were really asking about (nt) but it means, no text, so the message is all in the subject field and displayed on the message list. Love, Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Mar 12, 1999 at 07:29:23 (EST)
From: Mary M Email: mem_mcgraw@msn.com To: cult leader Ferddy Subject: Long Winding Road Message: Ferdy, We already know that Rawat is the god you're referring to 'I am the god of whiners and losers, victims and.... (cant think of a word that rhymes here, but you get the idea)' Gotta run to my very, very successful job. Read an excellent quote that reminded me of Rawat and his followers: 'The punishment of every disordered mind is its own disorder.' Now that we've got ours (minds)together what say you? Mary M Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, Mar 16, 1999 at 08:48:25 (EST)
From: SHP Email: None To: Mary M Subject: off topic Message: Dear Mary, I just checked out the Sheep Channel, which is a derisive personal attack upon myself and Maharaji. I saw my name added on it under a doctored up picture of Maharaji flipping the bird. Is that why you wanted my name? Did you have anything to do with it? My attorney is curious. Please reply by post or e-mail. Thank you. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Mar 12, 1999 at 12:13:58 (EST)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: cult leader Ferddy Subject: Long Winding Road Message: Dear Ferddy, Aren't you that English woman who was married to Prince Charles' younger brother? Do you do Weight Watchers adds now? Must have a big following from that already, why do you need more, more, more followers. I guess we have all the reason in the world to lie and exaggerate but M has no motivation for all these alleged activities he is involved in, darshan, donations, drinking etc. I know someone who was very close to M before Millenium and use to smoke pot with M every evening. He doesn't hate M but knows this is a scam. Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Mar 12, 1999 at 13:23:36 (EST)
From: A Premie Email: None To: cult leader Ferddy Subject: Long Winding Road Message: No one here could have some kind of agenda that would cause them to...you know...BS just a little. We Are Free!!!!! WWWWEEEEEEE!!!!! And you can be too. Yes you my friend. You crazy bastard! I hope all you confused and bitter ex-premies take this premie's heartfelt and very intelligent sharing to heart. Can't you feel that love coming from Ferddy which is obviously coming from THAT PLACE, of that joy, that love and that peace, which is that gift, which is that gift of this life that you are so gifted to receive from the one who can give that gift and you can only have that experience of that gift if you have that thirst and listen to the heart, if you follow the heart, and have that understanding? It is all so simple to have that beauty, isn't it? I mean, clearly Ferddy has not agenda whatsoever and being so filled with that love he would never BS anyone at all, as shown by his love-filled comments. Jai Satchitanand, Bohle Shri, Twameva Mata, and please, please please teach me devotion. A Premie Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Mar 12, 1999 at 13:35:58 (EST)
From: barney Email: None To: A Premie Subject: We should be paying this guy Message: Ferddy, Us, Raging Bullshitdick, and the rest are the answer to our prayers to show just how fucked up that whole stinking cult is. Keep coming back Ferddy and Us. Tell us of your Lord and his love for he will be known by his fruits. And, you have certainly benefited much from your involvement, havent' you? You were what before you got knowledge? A total psychopath? And now look at you. Why waste time in therapy and talking it out with other people when you've got those wonderful techniques and be deaf, dumb, and blind to reality. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Mar 12, 1999 at 15:15:03 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: A Premie Subject: I'm going to be ill... (nt) Message: yechhhhhh...yechhhhhh...yechhhhhh! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Mar 12, 1999 at 05:56:25 (EST)
From: FRANCAIS FREDDIE Email: NONE To: cult leader Ferddy Subject: ex-premie cult Message: JE PENSE, JE PENSE, ME THINKS I PENSE, WHEN THE DLMers came and sat on the stage, je pense late seventies, I hated it. Da Boys form Denver, I hated it. Then the Man, grande hombre, pulled the plug. Now je pense you pense 2 much. I love him , if you don't, well,at least love your life and be thankful to your Dieu. merci, beaucoup, bobbie brown. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Mar 12, 1999 at 06:11:32 (EST)
From: cult leader Ferddy Email: None To: FRANCAIS FREDDIE Subject: ex-premie cult Message: Ah, a poet. Being a true patron of the arts, I appreciate your effort. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Mar 12, 1999 at 08:12:28 (EST)
From: Sir Isaac Newton Email: None To: all souls Subject: For every action.... Message: there is an equal and opposite reaction. Classic demonstration, I must say. This website is one big knee-jerk reaction, with a little civilized discourse sprinkled in. I think I shall come here often to observe the laws of nature and energy in full bloom.... beats the hell out of waiting for a frigging apple to drop. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Mar 12, 1999 at 21:36:42 (EST)
From: Nim Email: None To: Sir Isaac Newton Subject: For every action.... Message: beats the hell out of waiting for a frigging apple to drop. Ya, well we're not exactly waiting for apples to drop here, that's for sure. I guess we're waiting for the axe to drop. On m that is. A perfectly equal and opposite reaction, to all his actions. But heck, I shouldn't even be telling you this. You know physics better than me. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Mar 12, 1999 at 12:39:57 (EST)
From: Doofus Devotee Email: None To: cult leader Ferddy Subject: Some poetry, sir? Message: Lord Ferddy, I'm feeling That love, That bliss, That connection, That joy from That experience that I just did for two hours. My eyeballs hurt a little and I'm experiencing a little TMJ from doing No. 4 a little to vigorously. Perhaps, you would grace me and soothe me with a little of Your poetry? Please? Maybe even something from Kabir, but I'd prefer your own words, dear Lord. Pranams, my Lord Return to Index -:- Top of Index |