Ex-Premie.Org |
Forum III Archive # 46 | |
From: Apr 27, 1999 |
To: May 17, 1999 |
Page: 5 Of: 5 |
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Date: Fri, Apr 30, 1999 at 14:09:51 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Back to school, Maharaji Message: Here's the hamster's web site introduction. Empty, smug and, for those foolish enough to fall for it, dangerous: Preface 'Know thyself' has echoed through the ages. This simple statement has been revised and updated, but has never lost its charm or intrigue. A truly great irony. The fat little fuck turns Socrates on his head. Socrates, as we all know, stood for exacting, uncompromised mental scrutiny of all beliefs and concepts. Maharaji stands for the opposite. We all, in our own ways, want to better ourselves, be it in our career, our family, our friends, our skills—whatever our chosen endeavor may be. So we should, and to this end many avenues are available to us. He writes like a grade niner which should surprise none being that he still is a grade niner. That last sentence above is exactly the kind of superficial get-me-out-of-this-essay-so-I-can-go-back-to-watching-tv junk we all wrote back then. However, one cannot forget one’s self. Knowledge of the self is important—to some, indeed, paramount. Same problem. This really does sound like a young high school student wrestling with the written word. He knows he's into a 'big' subject, but how to crack it without sounding trite or grandiose? Actually, what am I talking about? Those are Maharaji's problems but, unlike the sharper kids in his class, he seems impervious to the issue. Even in grade nine, this gets a 'C'. Was it handed in on time? Okay, C+. Knowledge of the self begins with the self. Your universe resides within you, waiting to be discovered. What does it take? It takes a sincere desire, an earnest thirst. Understanding is a wonderful surprise. That which didn't make sense all of a sudden does. And that's the whole theory, is it? This really is like low-grade children's work. A big build-up on a 'serious' subject. Then a tautological, embarrasingly cliched two-sentence stab at the subject itself. Capped off with the kind of throwaway line taht says, more than anything, 'I don't care what grade I get on this stupid assignment, I want to watch tv now!' My efforts have always been to help people understand and feel the feeling within. Only an ignoramus would present himself thusly for all the world to see. An ignoramus or a cult leader who never, ever experiences honest feedback for his thoughts and comments (i.e. quality control). So this bozo's efforts have always been to help people 'feel the feeling within'? Feel this, you dolt! People through the years have tried to place me in a mold, and from the very early years I have not been able to oblige them. When people wanted nirvana, I said, 'You need peace.' When people asked, 'What is your qualification?' I said, 'Judge me by what I offer.' Then the bullshit, infantile preface ends with this bald-faced lie: This website is not here to make you want Knowledge or to show you what it is. That is a journey that needs to be undertaken with one's own thirst. |
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Date: Fri, Apr 30, 1999 at 16:01:37 (EDT)
From: JW Email: None To: Jim Subject: Back to school, Maharaji Message: Jim, good analysis. How you stomach reading that is beyond me. I read it when the site first came up and nearly lost my lunch. I agree that it sounds like a fourth grader wrote that awful stuff. A couple of things jumped out at me. However, one cannot forget one’s self. Well I sure hope he is wrong about this, because in my experience self-consciousness makes you feel like crap. Forgetting yourself is actually a great thing -- it's one of the reasons I like sex so much, as well as rock-climbing, going to a good movie, and reading a good book. Understanding is a wonderful surprise. That which didn't make sense all of a sudden does. Translation: adopting M's belief system, which requires that you never question and never really think about any of the crap M says or what you 'experience,' and then things 'makes sense.' And god I hate the passive voice. It's so dishonest. That second sentence is illustrative of the dishonest stuff M says. My efforts have always been to help people understand and feel the feeling within. Even if he does say so himself. But I would disagree, at least as to the outcome. As we have all said, he is a pitiful failure in spreading to the world his supposed way to 'fell the feeling within,' but he has been a raving success in accumulating wealth for himself. Guess where most of his efforts have gone? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Apr 30, 1999 at 16:58:54 (EDT)
From: Victoria Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Turn back the hands of time Message: The old stuff is so much more powerful than the latest drivel. It almost gives me the opportunity to feel that feeling, but since I don't feel grateful for it (only ripped off), I don't get to all of a sudden make sense out of what I didn't understand. M is talking in circles. What ever happened to feeling BLISS? Have we done away with bliss, too? Who wrote M's stuff when he was a boy? Anybody know? Victoria Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Apr 30, 1999 at 18:02:45 (EDT)
From: KK Email: None To: Jim Subject: Great post Message: Well done, Jim. Loved it all - so true. Thanks. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, May 01, 1999 at 20:39:40 (EDT)
From: bb Email: None To: KK Subject: Great post Message: Another one hits the printer. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Apr 30, 1999 at 12:23:14 (EDT)
From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Everyone Subject: 1 more most expected chapter Message: More old stuff on my website: Spiritual Master Some excerpts.... A Pen Sketch of Balyogeshwar Shri Sant Ji Maharaj Born in a holy family, He was initiated into the life Divine by the late Satgurudev Shri Hans Ji Maharaj, a harbinger of world peace, universal love and ultimate reality. Hailing from the sacred soil of Badrinath in Uttrarakhand, India, Shri Hans Ji Maharaj aroused millions from the slumber of ignorance by His magic wand of spiritual knowledge. Balyogeshwar Shri Sant Ji Maharaj was acclaimed a born saint by Shri Hans Ji Maharaj. Others also saw the Divinity manifested in him, and were constantly in awe of his unusual behaviour from his very childhood. He was destined to fulfil the mission of uniting all religions with the silken bond of love. Yogiraj Shri Hans Ji Maharaj left His mortal frame on 19 July, 1966, transmitting His power potential of the secret Yoga to His Holiness Shri Sant Ji Maharaj. His Holiness speaks in the language of parables, and disdains all intellectual conceptions of God. His approach to religion is one of common sense. His glittering personality and beautific appearance shed a halo of divinity around Him. He is a supreme comforter, born to dispel the darkness of ignorance and bestow peace and knowledge to the entire world. The Divine Light Mission, under his firm guidance is spreading its message of the Holy Name to one and all. Shri Sant Ji Maharaj is not only young in years, but also in spirit. He plans to spread the knowledge of the Word and Divine Light to the world in his own lifetime. It is only now in this century where wide scale communication is possible that this proportion of the Mission has been made possible. He is the manifestation of the supreme power and gives the knowledge of the Holy Name and Divine Light to all who ask for it. 'For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost.' (Matthew, chapter 16; 26). He promises the gift of the knowledge of the soul to everyone who comes to him, irrespective of caste, colour or creed. 'For every one that asketh receiveth, and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.' (Matthew, 7; 8) We'll definitely need some help from Mickey the P. to deprogram us..... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Apr 30, 1999 at 08:43:34 (EDT)
From: Victoria Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Charanamrit Message: Charanamrit Water in which Maharaji has bathed his feet, or other parts of his body. Given to devotees for drinking or self-annointing. I was just thinking about this last night when my husband asked me (the very romantic question) ... 'What are you thinking about?' 'I drank Maharaji's bathwater.' 'Ew! That's disgusting!' 'I never told you that before, did I?' Then I explode in maniacal laughter. 'I mean, what could be lower than kissing somebody's feet?' 'Kissing feet is a sign of great respect, but drinking bathwater is SICK. It's just sick!' I guess I should say now that my husband received Drive-Thru Knowledge in 1983 (I think it was) in Venice Beach, CA. He never heard of Charanamrit before. I blocked it out, myself. When someone mentioned it here about a month ago, it was like... something I knew about, but I did not really consider it. It's all coming back to me now. We passed around this small chalice like it was the Holy Grail! Someone said it was like Nectar without having to do the technique. So, I'm wondering now, is charanamrit part of the 'radiosalami' (sp?) tradition? What do K-Liters think of drinking bathwater? Why did M want us to drink bathwater? Was it some kind of sick mind control trip of a PAM -- secretly saving M's bathwater to see if he could get us to drink it? Also, the golden toilet has a whole new dimension to it...I mean, if his bathwater is 'holy' then... No. It's just sick. Victoria P.S. I hope my kids never discover this web-page. They will never let me live this down! P.P.S. I was going to respond to Selene back in the dream thread, since I think Jim is okay too, but I still wouldn't want to drink his bathwater...but then decided to bring it up to the top. Okay? P.P.P.S. And how does the word break down linguistically? For example, is 'Guru Charanand' translatable to 'From the darkness to the light through the bliss of bathwater' ??? Amrit is a name, isn't it? I thought I knew a little Sikh girl named Amrit. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Apr 30, 1999 at 09:42:14 (EDT)
From: Zac Email: None To: Victoria Subject: Charanamrit Message: Yeah I wonder if Maharji ever pissed in the charanamrit before distributing it to the premies. I wouldn't put it past the little devil. Course the 'true devotees' would love it. Right? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Apr 30, 1999 at 09:53:18 (EDT)
From: catweasel Email: ladoos from lucknow To: Victoria Subject: Charanamrit Message: What strange things fascinate the ferals who post to this site!Personally I was more interested in how I actually felt in those days rather than all those HINDI|read Handy-rituals.Thats probably why your ex Victoria and I'm still having a good time in what you consider a nightmare.I really dont care whether you like it or not.But I get the feeling that all this stuff you guys freak out on has absolutely no reevance to anything real happening now or back then Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Apr 30, 1999 at 11:22:18 (EDT)
From: Victoria Email: None To: catweasel Subject: Charanamrit Message: Cat: Personally I was more interested in how I actually felt in those days rather than all those HINDI|read Handy-rituals Did you drink it? If so, how did you actually feel before, during and after drinking it in those days? Love Victoria Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Apr 30, 1999 at 12:35:28 (EDT)
From: Jerry Email: None To: catweasel Subject: Charanamrit Message: Hey, Cat. Nice to see you on this side of the fence. Think of charanamrit like this. All it was is somebody's bathwater. All it was is somebody's bathwater. All it was is somebody's bathwater. Get it? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Apr 30, 1999 at 13:34:54 (EDT)
From: JW Email: None To: catweasel Subject: Charanamrit Message: Personally I was more interested in how I actually felt in those days rather than all those HINDI|read Handy-rituals. Yes, they were 'handy' for BM to propogate the fraud that he was the incarnation of god. He used those rituals all the way to the bank, including raising millions for himself by giving darshan. But I have a question. Do you consider DARSHAN one of those HINDI rituals? And if it is just a 'RITUAL,' why is M still doing it, although I understand he doesn't do the 'feet water' trip anymore. It's just too unrelatable, I guess, but feet-kissing, like he did in Australia last year and never stopped doing in India, Mauritius and other places, is somehow different. What do you think? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Apr 30, 1999 at 11:58:42 (EDT)
From: Victoria Email: None To: everyone Subject: Charanamrit Message: I sent this to someone who has a webpage with an English Kalasha Khowar Nuristani Hindi-Urdu and Pashtu word list. Hello, I have been searching for the precise meaning of the word 'charanamrit.' I think it is a Hindi word. The reason I am searching is because in the 1970's I drank what was called charanamrit and people said it was water which had been used to bathe the feet of Guru Maharaj Ji. This is a serious request. I hope you can help me. Thank you. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Apr 30, 1999 at 12:30:37 (EDT)
From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Victoria Subject: Charanamrit's linguistic Message: And how does the word break down linguistically? Charan means 'feet' amrit means 'ambrosia', nectar. Literally: ambrosia from m's feet (Nectar from Satguru's feet) ...... Thus supposed to make you immortal. One of the nowadays hidden myths ..... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Apr 30, 1999 at 12:38:21 (EDT)
From: victoria Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: Charanamrit's linguistic Message: Thanks, JM. Now, do you think I can unsend that embarrassing e-mail to the linguist? Love, Victoria Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Apr 30, 1999 at 13:13:28 (EDT)
From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: victoria Subject: Charanamrit's linguistic Message: I don't know! We've all to face ridicule I guess. BTW: Guru Charananand means: bliss at the feet of guru (anand=bliss) we all did.... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Apr 30, 1999 at 13:40:49 (EDT)
From: Mary M Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: Charanamrit's linguistic Message: Hi JM, Do you know what Jagdeo and Fakiranand mean? Linguistically that is. I already know about 'pervert' and 'hammer wielding head banger';-) L, M Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Apr 30, 1999 at 13:16:32 (EDT)
From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Victoria Subject: Rouge: even more secret stuff Message: That was the powder (what's left of it) m's been using to make his tilak on his forehead! Some special variety of prashad I guess... I might have some left somewhere! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Apr 30, 1999 at 13:31:15 (EDT)
From: JW Email: None To: Victoria Subject: Charanamrit Message: Actually BM used to do a kind of ritual when he 'made' charnamrit for distribution to the premies. Someone brought him a chrystal bowl full of water on some kind of silk pillow. Then he put his feet in it and the water was carefully bottled and sent with the Intitiators to the communities. Each ashram had a supply, mostly taken right after Arti, right after we prostrated on the floor in front of an altar with his picture on it and/or in front of one of those (empty) Ergon chairs that all the communities had. Maharaji was very into the whole charnamarit thing, as he was into the feet kissing, pranaming, prostrations, and other forms of worship, including demonstrating one's devotion by the depositing of CASH in large barrels placed at strategic locations along the darshan line. It wasn't unusual for BM to pocket $250,000 (70s dollars) at one single darshan. This was his personal cash, not one cent of it went to 'propogating knowledge.' As far as I know, he never sold charnamarit, or indulgences either. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Apr 30, 1999 at 16:34:50 (EDT)
From: Marianne Email: None To: JW Subject: Charanamrit Message: I never heard of this stuff, ashram devotee that I was. Did it skip over Michigan and Ohio? Maybe my sisters and brothers just hid it from me because I was undeserving. (I'm out of my evidentiary hearing til Monday). Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Apr 30, 1999 at 18:06:53 (EDT)
From: JW Email: None To: Marianne Subject: Charanamrit Message: Hi Marianne. How is the hearing going? It looks like CA is about to off another one in a few days. Geez. Soon we will be like Texas. Keep up the good work, though. I can't believe you don't recall charnamrit. In every ashram I lived in we distributed it via a little spoon from a chrystal bowl right after Arti, both morning and evening. Each premie, kneeling on the floor after pranaming, held out his or her cupped hand and received a few drops. In the evenings it was distrubted to the whole community -- anyone who was at satsang and stayed for Arti. I think you are just blotting it out of your memory -- it will come back to you and boy, will you feel ill when it does! It didn't skip over the Midwest because we drank it in chicago and you can't get more Midwest than Chicago! Come to think of it though, I think charnamarit became a bigger deal in about 1977 and thereafter. For some reason, I don't recall it being around that much prior to that. Of course, 1977 began Maharaji's super-devotional, dark, Catholic period, when ALL the rituals, charnamarit included, became very big deals. That period ended about 1983 or so. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Apr 30, 1999 at 19:54:11 (EDT)
From: Marianne Email: None To: JW Subject: Dirty bathwater Message: Yeah, it must be one of those nasty memories. Your description rings a vague bell. I must have been so eager to jump under that sheet after arti that I missed out. I know Manny Babbitt. He is just as the press reports describe. I met his family when I was up at San Quentin seeing other clients a few weeks ago. They are lovely people and very distraught. Some of my friends are working on his case. The hearing is going extremely well. I am very tired and need more sleep, so I am going to hit the sack and check in later. How are you doing? Beautiful week, wasn't it? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, May 01, 1999 at 09:40:35 (EDT)
From: JW Email: None To: Marianne Subject: Dirty bathwater Message: Yeah, Manny Babbitt seems like a tragic case, but then I think the death penalty always is. I had the mistaken belief that Gray Davis, being a Democrat and a Vietnam Vet, might show some mercy, but I think he's terrified of being seen as 'soft on crime.' Personally, I think his statement that there has to be some new evidence of innocence before he will do anything is bunk. I always thought that clemency was all about how appropriate the sentence is, not whether or not the person is guilty of the crime. Good luck on your hearing. Yes, the weather is beautiful, although I'm a little tired of that late afternoon wind off the ocean. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sun, May 02, 1999 at 19:55:49 (EDT)
From: Hapless Email: None To: Victoria Subject: Charanamrit Message: Victoria,I have not heard about the bathwater before,but there is a tradition in India where the disciples drink their gurus urine.It's supposed to aid in meditation and generally make you feel good.Maybe that explains the smile on M's face;the thought of all these crazy westerners drinking his urine.I saw some literature on urine drinking and it said that your urine has a cure for most of the ills you have;like it's your own personal antidote.It's also supposed to be full of Melatonin or Seratonin or something.I tried drinking it for a few days(years ago)and it was an amazing experience,the colours were so bright for one,but I got a rotten headache and then gave it a miss:)Think I drank too much.A glass of warm urine with a sweet tea chaser;ahhh,the breakfast of champions Hapless Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, May 03, 1999 at 00:09:17 (EDT)
From: Victoria Email: None To: Hapless Subject: Urinamrit Message: Dear Hapless, This is truly bizarre. Urine carries waste products from your body. I once heard (from a premie, actually) that if you are lost in the desert you can drink urine to avoid dehydration. I always carry extra water with me when I go to the desert (so hopefully I will never have to face this issue), but I heard from a vet that this urine-drinking was part of Basic Training for Survival. I am glad M was not into it. =) Victoria Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, May 03, 1999 at 08:03:40 (EDT)
From: Hapless Email: None To: Victoria Subject: I'm so thirsty Message: Hi Victoria,I'm glad that you carry extra water in the desert,but if you run out it's good to know that you can bliss out on your own urine :)By the way,are you sure that was bathwater? Hapless Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, May 03, 1999 at 08:30:39 (EDT)
From: catweasel Email: YESterday To: Hapless Subject: I'm so thirsty Message: DESAIS Sister,P.s It was really only tap water sorry to disappoint your rather long winded fantasy!BUT you wanted it tobe bathwater,or footwater SO IT WAS!!!!!! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, May 03, 1999 at 11:22:28 (EDT)
From: Blue Bird Email: None To: catweasel Subject: I'm so thirsty Message: We know of the lies kitty. You are a good eunuch.... we still laugh at you. Alors, a neutered pussycat behaves best! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, May 03, 1999 at 12:08:11 (EDT)
From: Victoria Email: None To: catweasel Subject: I'm so thirsty Message: DESAIS Sister,P.s It was really only tap water sorry to disappoint your rather long winded fantasy!BUT you wanted it tobe bathwater,or footwater SO IT WAS!!!!!! What is 'DESAIS' ?? How do you know it was tap water, were you there? And if it was only tap water, who told the first lie about it and why? If you think it is long-winded, you don't have to read it. If I wanted M to be god (like he said) did that make it so? You are ridiculous, Catweasel. Love, victoria Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, May 04, 1999 at 07:05:08 (EDT)
From: catweasel Email: Taking the Piss out of you To: Victoria Subject: I'm so thirsty Message: Mosai Desai was the former 83 year old Indian P.M.who started each day with agood cup of his own Piss.Could you be his soul sister???why you so hung up on this God thing?Were you a christian or something. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, May 03, 1999 at 17:28:35 (EDT)
From: Roger E. Drek Email: None To: weasel Subject: revisionist Message: Weasel, you're such a revisionist, aren't you? And then you have the gall to say that we're out of touch. While I don't know for sure, but I heard it from a very good source (someone in the ashram) where Maharaji stayed once and they brewed up a batch. You little revisionist, ignorant tirades are a wonderful example of what Maharaji's Knowledge really does to people's minds. Keep up the good work. Nobody does it better than you. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Apr 30, 1999 at 04:35:08 (EDT)
From: catweasel Email: TOmorrow To: Everyone Subject: JIM Message: Last night I posted 'I'm coming to get you Jim'and you edited it.Iwas told you were all alittle paranoid.SEEMS to be true!! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Apr 30, 1999 at 07:47:58 (EDT)
From: Zac Email: None To: catweasel Subject: Important Message: No threats are allowed on the site. Threads with threats are deleted by the webmaster. So you aren't allowed to say your coming to get Jim unless you specify when you are picking him up for your date. Home by eleven though. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Apr 30, 1999 at 18:07:33 (EDT)
From: KK Email: None To: catweasel Subject: Ispy & catweasel Message: Networking is permitted on the forum. I suggest you arrange a date with Ispy. As gutless wonders, you'd have a lot in common. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Apr 30, 1999 at 22:26:37 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: catweasel Subject: Who's the paranoid one? Message: Last night I posted 'I'm coming to get you Jim'and you edited it.Iwas told you were all alittle paranoid.SEEMS to be true!! What's your real name, Cat, and where do you live? What's your phone number? Your address? Afraid to say? Why? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, May 01, 1999 at 06:37:57 (EDT)
From: Sir David Email: david.studio57@btinternet.com To: Jim Subject: Who's the paranoid one? Message: Yes. Why not make it a rule that all premies who come here to critisise us should at least include their real full name and their normal email address. Otherwise their words look a little empty and childish. We're adults here. I do realise that following Maharaji can stunt your maturity but some time in your life you have to grow up. So full names please, if you want to try to critisise us. My full name is David Simpkiss, by the way. (By the way Jim, I tried to get someone here to transfer the video over to NTSC but couldn't so you'll get the PAL version.) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, May 01, 1999 at 12:16:53 (EDT)
From: catweasel Email: you know what to do To: Jim Subject: Who's the paranoid one? Message: Wouldnt give you the time of day big mouthBut if you knew just how I fit into the scheme of things you might be surprised.Your dated Jim and your really out of touch with whats actually going on with M,the people around him and where he's located now.You profess no interest but your continually diving onto the premie sites looking for something new to shit on.Your a bit like the KGB interpreting the US Bill of RIGHTS.you mean to be entertaining to your comrades but your too fucked up on your own Dogma systems.Jimmy I know who you are I even know your Email address and your snail mail lodgings. But if you think I give a shit about you outside of this media I put more value on the crap I scrape off my shoes than I do about you . Mylife is far more interesting than wasting time on Turkeys like you Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, May 01, 1999 at 12:38:40 (EDT)
From: BlueBird Email: None To: catweasel Subject: Who's the paranoid one? Message: Do you know Peter Friedli? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, May 01, 1999 at 14:23:35 (EDT)
From: JW Email: None To: catweasel Subject: Who's the paranoid one? Message: Catweasel: Your actions and your presence here contradict your profestations about how little you think of what people say here and what it means to you. If you find this discussion so stupid and meaningless, what the hell are you doing here? I mean, I think you protest too much. I think you are really very interested in what is being said here, and I think you are threatened by it -- extremely defensive that people who know all about the cult you belong to, probably know a lot more than you do, by the way -- including people who have been card-carrying cult members until only a few months ago -- and they all think your master is a fraud. But by just saying the same dismissive thing over and over, you are really losing your credibility. Or maybe it's because over at enjoyinglife and on M's website, open discussion is banned and here you can actually say whatever you like. If it's all so beautiful, why didn't enjoyinglife ever get that 'conversation' part of the site open, and why do they censor the entries to be sure they tow the current cult-speak? And what, specifically, is on this website that you think isn't true? Why don't you put up or shut up. Oh, maybe it's because you are too much of a weasel to do that! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sun, May 02, 1999 at 07:11:46 (EDT)
From: Catweasel Email: Showtime To: JW Subject: Who's the paranoid one? Message: Why JW I'm flattered!!But the truth of my prescence here is a little more basic.Firstly I simply followed some of your annoying Posters back here from the Premie forum.Simple case of you picking up there Bad Karma I reckon!!!!Secondly I find a lot of your ramblings pure fabrication so when I know for sure that what someone has posted is pure bullshit ,well hell ,jw I'll sure enough comment just like Jim and his other moron conspirators do over on the Premie site??The only evidence of a cult I can see is right here in the way people relate on this site and Jw,I've been around since 1972,so dont lecture me with your superior wisdom. P.s. Where did I say I was a practising premie my friend.Theres quite a subtle difference in actively deconstructing fallacious arguments based on Heresay, opinion and rumour as opposed to defending a postion.Put yourself in the postion where intellectually you find the constrution of the premise of the arguments weak and the argument becomes unsupportable.That is where I'm coming from JW Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sun, May 02, 1999 at 09:22:57 (EDT)
From: bb Email: None To: Catweasel Subject: kitty wheeze and JW Message: If you are at all honest, you will find JW able to handle your request for supportable and strong argument. Cordially put at the same time. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, May 03, 1999 at 12:29:10 (EDT)
From: JW Email: None To: Catweasel Subject: So, Put UP or Shut Up Message: Firstly I simply followed some of your annoying Posters back here from the Premie forum. Well this sounds like bullshit, if what you said below is true. You said you read ALL the archives of this site, the whole two years worth. If your interest is so passive, why would you do that? Something doesn't jive in your story, weasel. Where did I say I was a practising premie my friend. You said YOU were having a beautiful experience of knowlege. I assume from that you 'practice,' whatever that is these days. Well, again, I suggest you put up of shut up. You seem incapable of saying what, specifically, you find 'fallacious' on this website. Until you do so, you do nothing but huff and puff, and that's not too impressive. If you read the archives, which you said you did, then you will know that much of what is said here people have seen with their own eyes, and have 'opinions' based on personal experience, just like you say you have. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, May 04, 1999 at 13:04:17 (EDT)
From: AJW Email: None To: catweasel Subject: Who's the paranoid one? Message: Catweasle, I'm detecting a lot of anger here. Take a couple of minutes. Become centred. Once you're in that place you'll see that you and Jim are the same spark of human life, imprisoned in two different bodies. When you yell at Jim, you're really yelling at yourself. Antonionioni (Re-reading the last two lines, a couple of drops of charanamrit on the tongue might be in order). Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, May 04, 1999 at 12:30:08 (EDT)
From: Moses Email: None To: Jim Subject: Ex-Premie Advice #2 Message: Thou shalt realize that, in the world of cults & ex-cults, paranoia makes pretty good sense. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, May 01, 1999 at 14:14:37 (EDT)
From: Brian Email: brian@ex-premie.org To: catweasel Subject: Consider yourself warned Message: Your post has been deleted. I don't personally care who you are. You will find your ISP blocked to posting if you can't follow the rules of the forum. [Sorry it took so long, folks, but I've been installing and configuring new software on this puter and haven't been following things all that closely. Email me if you see any more of this.] Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, May 01, 1999 at 19:34:10 (EDT)
From: CP Email: NONE To: Brian Subject: I THANK YOU, MY SENSIBILITYS Message: THANK YOU. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Apr 29, 1999 at 20:02:35 (EDT)
From: Sir David Email: david.studio57@btinternet.com To: Everyone Subject: Maharaji burns the cakes Message: That post that (I think) Robyn wanted to read has been put on my site. King Maharaji burns the cakes is of course an oblique reference to our King Harold who was a real King who burned the cakes but made peace with the Vikings. Maharaji cannot even make peace with his ex-devotees but he sure is one hell of a bad cook! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Apr 29, 1999 at 20:18:12 (EDT)
From: Sir David Email: None To: Sir David Subject: Historical correction Message: For those swats who are about to point out my error, it was of course King Alfred I was talking about above. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, May 04, 1999 at 13:08:11 (EDT)
From: AJW Email: None To: Sir David Subject: Historical correction Message: King Harold, wasn't he the one who had a cake thrown into his eye? Anth. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Apr 29, 1999 at 13:18:14 (EDT)
From: Ex-Cultist Email: None To: Everyone Subject: It Hurts Message: Dedicated to all who were trapped in a cult but were able to get themselves out. 'It Hurts' IT HURTS to discover you were deceived - that what you thought was the 'one true religion,' the path to total fredom,' or 'truth' was in reality a cult. IT HURTS when you learn that people you trusted implicitly - whom you were taught not to question - were 'pulling the wool over your eyes' albeit unwittingly. IT HURTS when you learn that those you were taught were your 'enemies' were telling the truth after all -- but you had been told they were liars, deceivers, repressive, satanic etc and not to listen to them. IT HURTS to realize their love and acceptance was conditional on you remaining a member of good standing. This cuts so deeply you try and suppress it. All you want to do is forget - but how can you forget your family and friends? IT HURTS to see the looks of hatred coming from the faces of those you love - to hear the deafening silence when you try and talk to them. It cuts deeply when you try and give your child a hug and they stand like a statue, pretending you aren't there. It stabs like a knife when you know your spouse looks upon you as demonised and teaches your children to hate you. IT HURTS to know you must start all over again. You feel you have wasted so much time. You feel betrayed, disillusioned, suspicious of everyone including family, friends and other former members. IT HURTS when you find yourself feeling guilty or ashamed of what you were - even about leaving them. You feel depressed, confused, lonely. You find it difficult to make decisions. You don't know what to do with yourself because you have so much time on your hands now - yet you still feel guilty for spending time on recreation. IT HURTS when you feel as though you have lost touch with reality. You feel as though you are 'floating' and wonder if you really are better off and long for the security you had in the organization and yet you know you cannot go back. IT HURTS when you feel you are all alone - that no one seems to understand what you are feeling. It hurts when you realize your self confidence and self worth are almost non-existent. IT HURTS when you have to front up to friends and family to hear their 'I told you so' whether that statement is verbal or not. It makes you feel even more stupid than you already do - your confidence and self worth plummet even further. IT HURTS when you realize you gave up everything for the cult - your education, career, finances, time and energy - and now have to seek employment or restart your education. How do you explain all those missing years? IT HURTS because you know that even though you were deceived, you are responsible for being taken in. All that wasted time........ at least that is what it seems to you - wasted time. THE PAIN OF GRIEF Leaving a cult is like experiencing the death of a close relative or a broken relationship. The feeling is often described as like having been betrayed by someone with whom you were in love. You feel you were simply used. There is a grieving process to pass through. Whereas most people understand that a person must grieve after a death etc, they find it difficult to understand the same applies in this situation. There is no instant cure for the grief, confusion and pain. Like all grieving periods, time is the healer. Some feel guilty, or wrong about this grief. They shouldn't -- It IS normal. It is NOT wrong to feel confused, uncertain, disillusioned, guilty, angry, untrusting - these are all part of the process. In time the negative feelings will be replaced with clear thinking, joy, peace, and trust. YES - IT HURTS BUT THE HURTS WILL HEAL WITH TIME, PATIENCE & UNDERSTANDING There is life after the cult. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Apr 29, 1999 at 13:34:40 (EDT)
From: Roger E. Drek Email: None To: Ex-Cultist Subject: It Hurts - thanks Message: Wow! That could apply to any cult. I checked out the newsgroups alt.religion.scientolgy last night and saw some of the same stuff that I see here. Certainly, this post applies to any cult. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Apr 29, 1999 at 13:40:46 (EDT)
From: Happy Email: None To: Ex-Cultist Subject: good post (nt) Message: xxx Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Apr 29, 1999 at 15:21:18 (EDT)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Roger E. Drek Subject: It Hurts - thanks Message: Dear Ex-Cultist, That post is excellent. Thank you for putting it out here. I hope you are OK and that if you find it helpful, that you stay here and get support. It sounds like you gave up everything twice, one to follow M and once to leave him but you do sound positive about your choice and that it good. I am sorry your family had turned on you, hopefully that will soften in time. Take good care, Love, Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Apr 29, 1999 at 20:08:56 (EDT)
From: david m Email: None To: Ex-Cultist Subject: It Hurts Message: Hey Ex...For some it Hurts everyday of your life..But on the Bright side...At least you have the ability to feel..And not just Be Part of the group.THE ALL KNOWING ALMIGHTY GROUP...At Least I Am Trying To See The Forest ...Peace...david m Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Apr 29, 1999 at 20:44:46 (EDT)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: david m Subject: It Hurts Message: Dear David, When I read Ex's post I had you in my mind. I know it isn't the same situation but I am glad you read it. Love you, Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Apr 30, 1999 at 07:58:45 (EDT)
From: david m Email: None To: Robyn Subject: It Hurts Message: Hey Robyn...thanks for the kind words.With each day there is a new adventure....talk to you soon...peace...love...david m Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Apr 30, 1999 at 13:47:15 (EDT)
From: EC Email: None To: david m Subject: It Hurts Message: Thanks David. I think I have already processed most of it, otherwise I don't think I would understand those words the way I do. Yes, life is SO MUCH BETTER after I left the cult. 'I can see clearly now, the pain is gone.....Gone are the dark clouds that had be blind.' It is painful to realize what a fool I have been top fall for the cult belief system, but it also feels great to be free from it. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Apr 29, 1999 at 20:52:26 (EDT)
From: Mary M Email: None To: Ex-Cultist Subject: Thanks EC Message: May we always remember your final words in your post .... There is life after the cult. Love, Mary M Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Apr 30, 1999 at 13:35:54 (EDT)
From: Denise Email: None To: Ex-Cultist Subject: It Hurts Message: Thanks for sharing your feelings, I needed to read this right now. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Apr 30, 1999 at 20:20:51 (EDT)
From: Selene Email: None To: all Subject: It Hurts Message: It hurts less over time. That I can assure you. Thanks. I am actually either too numb to know it, or I think really, I am entering a new healing phase, after one and a half years really, finally, out. Feels good. Nice post and I think you helped a lot of people. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Apr 29, 1999 at 00:41:26 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Where CD learned to talk Message: Back to Knowledge Some people who had stopped practicing Knowledge wrote that they are making efforts to come back. See its goodness and follow your heart. Focus on what is important. The decision to practice Knowledge or not will always be yours. Many times other things take on an aura of false importance. Know the difference. Let the inspiration to return to Knowledge or to stay with it come from a sincere place. Make your decisions with clarity. Welcome back. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Apr 29, 1999 at 04:02:55 (EDT)
From: bb Email: None To: Jim Subject: Beer Glasses Message: 'many times, other things will take an aura of false importance.' Like say, Thinking for your self. Having your time be your own. Looking out your eyes Listening to what comes to your eardrums from the world. Loving your friends and families. Chatting with great folks on a forum. Recognising reality. Having your hands on the steering wheel. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Apr 29, 1999 at 11:28:36 (EDT)
From: eb Email: None To: bb Subject: This dream needs interpreting Message: Hi all. Funny about this thread being at the top when I got here today because last night, I had a dream about Chris and Jim. We were in an auditorium waiting for Maharaji to come out on stage, but there were no chairs. The lighting was dim, and people were milling around and sitting on the hardwood floor like a General Admission rock concert. Jim and Chris were in a heated debate (I know Chris in real life, but I've only seen pictures of Jim). Chris whipped out a financial document--an accounting of what he owed Maharaji which amounted to $6,000. I couldn't really follow the discussion they were having, but I remember agreeing with Chris at one point. We all went out for a beer, and I woke up. My interpretation: I really need a drink. eb Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Apr 29, 1999 at 17:53:55 (EDT)
From: Selene Email: None To: eb Subject: This dream needs interpreting Message: yikes, what a fun group you chose to hang out with. Yeah methinks you need a drink too. Maybe it would help you write more of that crazy stuff. Wish I was into doing writing again but I am not at the moment. I remember my dream from last night too. I was living in CA, seriously, and lived in this big house. All these ex premies were dropping by, I remember the names and had connected faces with them though I haven't seen a lot of them in person. It felt good actually til I woke up hung over from the wine Nick and I drank for his bday. And an hour late for a meeting. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Apr 29, 1999 at 19:04:21 (EDT)
From: Blue Bird Email: None To: All Subject: Nightmare Message: Speaking of dreams, I dreamt someone gave NIL a 'lifetime guaranteed' Craftsman hammer. Scary - Nil with a hammer Mary M, I recommend you wear a hard hat around that dude. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Apr 29, 1999 at 23:10:18 (EDT)
From: Victoria Email: None To: Selene Subject: I had that dream too! Message: All these ex premies were dropping by, I remember the names and had connected faces with them though I haven't seen a lot of them in person. Yeah, i was there and you wouldn't talk to me, so I decided to drink Jim's bathwater, just to see if it would help me to feel any better, but then I got sick and made a mess all over your carpet. sorry =) Victoria Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Apr 29, 1999 at 23:29:20 (EDT)
From: Selene Email: None To: Victoria Subject: I had that dream too! Message: It's OK, I made my slave toy boy clean it up. PMS ya know. Jim is OK. He is most likely a mild mannered type in person. I can handle it. But I would pay a little more attention to the quality of mood altering beverages you consume. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, May 03, 1999 at 14:45:12 (EDT)
From: Liz Email: None To: bb Subject: Beer Glasses Message: Hi bb, Not sure why it's called Beer Glasses but I like your post. Thanks, Liz Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, May 03, 1999 at 15:16:35 (EDT)
From: bb Email: None To: Liz Subject: CDz eye...+>+ Message: Hi Liz, CD is perhaps the most beer sotted forum resident. And a practicing premie to boot. His satsang replacement at night is a music bar and then he comes home and hits the guitar strings ripping off a steaming rendition of the dead's 'alabama getaway' (not my favorite dead song-to be diplomatic!) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Apr 29, 1999 at 00:32:00 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Hope Message: And then a poor man came upon the hamster and asked him about hope. But all the hamster could say was: Hope is a light in the darkness, an island in the midst of the water, an oasis in the vast empty desert. Hope is the element that can move us from sorrow towards joy. What do I hope for? I hope for that which can come true. I hope for joy. I hope for love. Thirst will not be quenched if the thirsty do not drink the water. Darkness will not be removed if the light is not ushered in. We have the ability to do something to make our hopes come true. And the poor man hung his head and cried and cried and cried. I hope for the betterment of each being on earth. I hope for peace. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Apr 29, 1999 at 00:36:25 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Jim Subject: Hey, I fucked up Message: It was the hamster who said: I hope for the betterment of each being on earth. I hope for peace. From the 'peace bomb' to this. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Apr 29, 1999 at 00:27:56 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Time Message: And soon a new person came upon the hamster and she, knowing nothing of his past, but noticing that he felt he had something to say, invited him to share his heart-thoughts with her. 'What about time?', she asked. The hamster smiled to himself and began: Time Some say they don't have time. I say we have time as long as we exist. Some say one needs to manage time. I say we can't manage time—only what we do in a specific time can be managed. Like a seed that has been planted, the transformation is afoot, and we are transforming. So, for me: Time is a river that cleanses. Time is a river that drowns. Time is a healer, but it requires trust. Time is a wind, but it requires strong sails. Time is a ladder, but it requires a strong grip. Time is a book, but you don't get to flip the pages. Time is neither in the future nor in the past. Through all the ups and downs, our time is now. And the new person said 'that's nice' and carried on her way. Since birth, I am in the grip of time. I wiggle and the grip gets tighter; I let go and the grip relaxes. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Apr 29, 1999 at 03:55:57 (EDT)
From: bb Email: None To: Jim Subject: Bathtub ring forum Message: 'Time is a river that cleans' MMMM, that dirty laundry issue, damn that those ex premies and think an write and are downstream photographing the dirt digitally. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Apr 29, 1999 at 00:23:21 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Thirst Message: Then a few drunken youths who remained yelled at the hamster, 'speak to us of thirst!' to which the hamster began to chatter: Thirst In each one of us there is an urge to better ourselves. I say this without judgement. This urge is in our essential nature. In a child, it may take the shape of learning how to walk. I am not talking about where the child goes, but about the force that causes the child to want to walk. Something within us molds us, pushes us, inspires us to better ourselves—whether it is to reach for the stars or merely to find a shortcut along our path. Sometimes in the interest of attaining results, we forget the force that brings us there. For me, this power is thirst. Without thirst, water means nothing; without that push, I may not evolve. I cannot learn how to have the thirst, but I can certainly learn how to quench it. In the process of learning, I cannot forget what I am ultimately trying to accomplish. A glass is tangible and so is water; the thirst may not be so tangible. If I see a person drinking water from a glass, I could assume this person is thirsty, but that doesn’t mean that a person without a glass is not thirsty. Like when a piano is being played, the piano is easy to see and so is the player, but the inspiration may only be felt. The process of acquiring Knowledge of the self is very similar. The techniques that take you within may be physical; the yearning and the feeling can only be felt. As water is to thirst, As food is to hunger, As wind is to a sail, As mind is to thinking, As warmth is to spring, As cloud is to rain, So Knowledge is to the heart. But, alas, all the youths but one had long departed. And he that remained heard very little. He was puking in the bushes. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Apr 29, 1999 at 03:51:23 (EDT)
From: bb Email: None To: Jim Subject: 7up Message: 'In the process of learning, I cannot forget what I am ultimately trying to accomplish.' If he had a concept of 'what I am ultimately trying to accomplish', we would have seen it written or mentioned by now. 'convince mom I AM the lord' 'hide my dirty mala's from the world by somehow stopping expremie.org from hanging it in public' 'get things back on track so that I can wear the crown on my birthdays' 'have my will be done' 'become a god the Caligula way, if enough people believe and worship, it becomes reality' 'make all men like steven' 'convince ex premies that it was all thier doing because --some like to sing for others--is thier catagory.' Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Apr 29, 1999 at 00:17:42 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Life Message: Adn they said to the hamster, tell us about life. And the hamster quit dancing (which was good because, if you can imagine, he was really starting to stink) and said unto them: Life If Life were a gift, it would need to be accepted. If Life were a path, it would need to be journeyed. If Life were a song, it would need to be sung. If Life were a moment, it would need careful attention. So, is life a gift? Some weigh the gift and find it too heavy; others find it too light. Some measure the box and find it too small, while for others it is too big. Some have opened the gift and are delighted. So, is life a path? Some stand at the beginning of the path and can’t make up their minds. Some want to go where there are no footprints, and some where it is safe. Some say the path is too steep. Some say, 'What path?' Those who have traveled the path of life know it is fascinating. So, is life a song? Some say, 'I can't sing'; others are too busy coming up with the melody. Some are too busy rewriting the words; others are too busy clearing their throats. Some want to sing to please others; some want to sing for themselves. Sing, and sing in rhythm, and it will be musical. So, is life a moment? Some judge life by time, others by accomplishments. To some, life is not long enough, while to others, it is too long. In the analysis of time, life slips by; and in the analysis of life, time slips by. Accept this life in this time and live the moment forever. With all its mysteries, with all its adventures, with all its ups and downs, life is still a blessing. And those that remained looked at the ground with fatigue and embarrasment. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Apr 29, 1999 at 00:08:44 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Thanks but no thanks (2) Message: Imagine you finally get a private audience with your 'Master'. For years you've worshipped, loved, honoured and done your gol'darned best to follow his 'teachings'. Now, lordy, lordy, you get some quality time together. Say you ask him to teach you about courage. Say this is what he tells you: Courage In moments of despair, no one else can feel as you feel. Each time I go through the process of stumbling upon the perils of life, I am awakened; and each time, I vow never to go through it again. But life has a lot to teach me, and I am still learning. So I offer this. Each being has an unlimited capacity for joy, but none for suffering. Sewn in our daily world are the seeds of joy and pain. Acting as catalysts, they affect us. To climb a mountain takes courage and strength, yet to overcome the cliffs of despair takes even greater courage and strength. However, this is still not outside the realm of human possibilities. Hope then, is the only beacon we have to continue. When suffering comes, it is time to go on rather than stop; it is time to accept rather than reject; it is time for courage rather than weakness; it is time to look forward rather than back; it is time to understand rather than question. As with a potter kneading clay, each knead brings the clay closer to its stage of transformation into a vessel. In loss, not all is lost, for memories are left to be cherished. In darkness, light is needed. In confusion, clarity is needed. In despair, hope is needed. Remember that life goes on. Remember that life evolves. Remember that in hopelessness, lies hope. Know that even in your darkest hour, you will not be abandoned. How one feels in these moments is as personal as can be. Two people who have gone through the same tragedy will be affected differently. Whatever the situation, it all seems so final. However, some situations you can do something about while the laws of nature determine others. Would you laugh or would you cry? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Apr 28, 1999 at 14:21:00 (EDT)
From: AJW Email: None To: Shp Subject: Imposters. Message: Hi Shp, I just picked up your post on the inactive thread. You wrote, 'Anth, please refer me to the post/thread or copy/paste it here where I allegedly called you a liar. I think that either you are revving up the message or someone else posted in my name.' I've downloaded the archives but haven't got winzip around. My dinner is sizzling, so I thought I'd reply before you went AWOL again. The post was in a thread, or more likely subthread, called 'Four Wheeled Drive.' Whoever used your name simply blurted something like, 'You are a liar AJW'. Whatever. If it wasn't you, I've really no interest in your donations..honest. One thing I did say in the interchange was that I often enjoyed reading your posts and sometimes felt quite sympathetic with your views. If I find the thread I'll post it. Meantime, omlettes calling. Bye, Anth Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Apr 30, 1999 at 12:05:35 (EDT)
From: Shp Email: None To: AJW Subject: When you make omelettes... Message: you have to crack a few eggs. I don't recall any 4-wheel drive thread at all, ever. I don't think it was me. Not my style. Anyway, hope you enjoyed 'em, and they were organically fed and free-range. You know, they chain the birds to perches and cut off their beaks in conventional chicken/egg farms....enjoy! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, May 01, 1999 at 04:33:18 (EDT)
From: Runamok Email: None To: Shp Subject: Implettes... (nt) Message: zzzzzzzz Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, May 01, 1999 at 11:03:35 (EDT)
From: Shpavlov Email: None To: Runamok / AJW Subject: When you see my initials, Run Message: do you salivate first or post first? Or is it simultaneous? I was speaking to AJW. By the way, AJW, they also shoot those birds up with alot of hormones and antibiotics, plus their feed is dosed with herbicides and pesticides. If somebody gave me this information, even if I already had it, I'd appreciate the reminder for my health and the health of my loved ones. This is the one and only speech on eggs from me to you...no preaching. If you have a place to get organic eggs, and you're into eggs, it's cleaner fuel and shouldn't cost that much more. Just trying to share some good information. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, May 01, 1999 at 21:04:32 (EDT)
From: Runamok Email: None To: Shippy the Pavlov Dog Subject: When uc Runamok, Initialize Message: Where shall I run to, O Holy One? What if the lotus feet have fraudulism? Let's see, I could roast the feet and they might become clean! Great idea. C'mon Shp, I dare you not to respond. It's so nice not to see you sometimes. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sun, May 02, 1999 at 02:23:09 (EDT)
From: Shp Email: None To: Runamok Subject: I don't take dares (nt) Message: There was a time when we communicated in peace, although we disagreed. Then we didn't communicate so peacefully. My basic nature wants to get along with everybody. It still does, even though I know that it's not probable. I bear you no malice. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, May 03, 1999 at 00:04:19 (EDT)
From: Runamok Email: None To: Shp Subject: You do like make promises.. Message: that you don't keep. Let's keep it formal. I'm sure I don't want to be your friend. You can find some people here who will go through the motions, especially people who were not on board when you started posting. The only thing that makes me feel friendlier to you is when I don't see you posting. But face it, those periods don't last for very long. You made the forum more unpleasant for quite a few of us, and I don't intend to be party to making it pleasant for you. I expended a signifcant amount of energy dealing with you in the most open way possible, giving you every benefit of the doubt for weeks. You have revealed yourself as a double-dealing, double-speaking cultist, filled with gleeful half-truths and unwanted ejaculations about anything vaguely spiritual or marginally associated with spirituality (with dietary information your latest dharmic incarnation). No, Shp. Some people here are too friendly to you. I want to try to keep a balance. And I have no need or desire for your dietary pronouncements. Keep it formal, or better yet live up to your grand pronouncements that you will never post to me again. When was that, 2, or was it 3 dozen posts from you ago? Or you could live up to your even more grand pronouncements to leave the forum permanently. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, May 03, 1999 at 01:27:46 (EDT)
From: Runamok Email: None To: Runamok Subject: You do like 2 2 Message: snore Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, May 04, 1999 at 02:22:30 (EDT)
From: Shp Email: None To: Runamok Subject: The fact of the matter is that Message: I was sending a reply post to AJW regarding eggs and you butted in. In a live conversation, you would have looked like and been recognized as the interrupting boor you happened to be manifesting as at the time. But here in cyberspace, just barge in! Who's looking? Who cares? As long as nobody is getting threatened, anything goes, right? But I don't think that is who you really are. As for the information I was sharing, I wasn't preaching and I know that you can't eat your way to Heaven...I had just done a part-time gig with an organic food company and was loaded with the information, and just wanted to pass it on. Take it or leave it, but why shoot the messenger? So what I hear you saying is that you are pissed because you invested x amount of time in me and I haven't copped to YOU yet. Perhaps my telling you that I appreciate all the energy you have put out to communicate with me will help. I do. Your mistake is interpreting my words and acts as insincere and designed to mess with you. I assure you they aren't. Occasionally I have locked horns with you or others here, but ever since I was accused of causing folks pain here, I have backed way off and have tried to be more level and calm in my much less frequent posting. The subjects I have brought up here from time to time that you consider 'flaky' are just thoughts. I don't worship UFO's, I'm not losing sleep over cyborgs arriving in 2013, and I'm not sweating the cashless society, or the Revelation. They were just things I mentioned from time to time just like everybody else mentions things that are on their minds. And that's what I mean by getting hairpinned into a cigar box...you are trying to pin me to a post here or there out of context and paint me as a typical (or atypical) new age premie nutcase. Ahh, but if I took my writing talents and pumped out some really nasty stuff about Maharaji you'd howl with approval and welcome me as a brother. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, May 04, 1999 at 13:35:42 (EDT)
From: AJW Email: anthginn@yahoo.com To: Shp & Runamok Subject: The fact of the matter is that Message: Hi there, Shp, I haven't unzipped those files yet, but when I do I'll let you know what I find. Do you have an email address? You could email me with it, but I'll quite understand if you don't want to do that. Anyway, shp, you seem to have upset Runamok. What did you do? I gather you're a premie shp. I don't know Runamok too well, but maybe he hasn't been a premie for a while. Since I stopped being a premie, I've noticed a change in how I feel in myself and how I see the world and life. If Runamok has been away from 'premieworld' for a few years, he probably sees things from quite a different perspective to you and I. My explanation would be, 'Although he posts here, and was once a premie, he's been away from 'premieworld' for so long, he's forgotten what it's like. He thinks it's a simple cult. He's no idea how crazy it really is.' Hi Runamok. Do you think shp will ever change and be nice? Is he trying to seduce me? What will he do after the handcuffs click and I can't get away? Words without faces are more difficult to read. How does someone know if you're joking or not? (Diz, I was joking, honest). Anth Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Apr 28, 1999 at 10:10:23 (EDT)
From: Mary m Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Florida Corporate Search Free Message: Hi All, Following is the link to Florida's FREE Corporate Record search. It's free, so have a blast looking up Officers, Corporations, Corporate name histories, old PAMS: Florida Corporate Records Search Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Apr 28, 1999 at 10:14:28 (EDT)
From: Mary M Email: None To: All Subject: Colorado Corporate Search Message: Hello again. Following is the Colorado Corporate Search site. It's well worth the $29.50 per year to look up the goldie oldies such as DLM, Rainbow You Name it. Have fun. Colorado Public Corporate Records Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Apr 28, 1999 at 10:17:20 (EDT)
From: Mary M Email: None To: All Subject: Aviation Search - Free Message: Need I say less. Here is the Aviation Site. It's FREE. Aviation Search Site Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Apr 28, 1999 at 10:21:58 (EDT)
From: Mary M Email: None To: All Subject: Florida Sex Offendors/Predator Message: Also FREE, the Florida Sex Offendors and Predators search page. Unfortunately the powers of DLM and EV will not provide Jagdeos or Raphaels real names. Florida Sex Offendors and Predators Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Apr 28, 1999 at 10:22:49 (EDT)
From: Mary M Email: None To: All Subject: Above Search Sites Dedicated Message: to NIL. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Apr 28, 1999 at 11:13:18 (EDT)
From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Mary M Subject: California ? Sex off/pred Message: Do you also have it in California? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Apr 28, 1999 at 11:25:35 (EDT)
From: Mary M Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: California ? Sex off/pred Message: Hi JM, I don't have California's FREE sites. Perhaps someone else on X/3 does. xo, Mary Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Apr 28, 1999 at 11:07:10 (EDT)
From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Mary M Subject: Aviation Search - Free Message: Pilots Database Search Result -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Name : RAWAT, PREM PAL SINGH Pilot's Address : 31334 ANACAPA VIEW DR MALIBU, CA, 90265-2673 Date of Medical : Oct, 1997 Class of Medical : 1 Pilot Certificates : Airline Transport Pilot Helicopter Instrument Glider Rating Ratings : Multi-Engine Land FAA Region : Western/Pacific Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Apr 30, 1999 at 21:55:46 (EDT)
From: Blue Bird Email: None To: NIM Subject: AmText FYI Message: BUSINESS TYPE: Corporation - DATE INCORPORATED: 12/04/1985 Profit STATE OF INCORP: Florida ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Business started 1985 by officers. 100% of capital stock is owned by officers. CHARLES NATHAN. Background unavailable. P D POTTER. Background unavailable. PAULA C BLANCHE. Background unavailable. ROBERT A JACOBS. Background unavailable. MICHAEL V DETTMERS. Background unavailable Amtext Inc Text Mart 11900 Biscayne Blvd Miami, FL 33181-2743 TELEPHONE: 305-892-0900 COUNTY: DADE MSA: 5000 (Miami, FL) REGION: South Atlantic BUSINESS: Wholesales and Retails Books Periodicals and Newspapers PRIMARY SIC: 5192 Books, periodicals, and newspapers 51929901 Books SECONDARY SIC(S): 5942 Book stores 59420000 Book stores, nsk LATEST YEAR ORGANIZED: 1985 STATE OF INCORPORATION: FL DATE OF INCORPORATION: 12/04/1985 ANNUAL SALES REVISION DATE: 01/03/1998 LATEST TREND BASE YEAR YEAR YEAR (1996) (1994) SALES $ 1,400,000E $ NA $ NA Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, May 01, 1999 at 12:40:51 (EDT)
From: Nim Email: None To: Blue Bird Subject: AmText FYI Message: LATEST TREND BASE YEAR YEAR YEAR (1996) (1994) SALES $ 1,400,000E $ NA $ NA Can you tell me from where you got this document? Is the sales figure listed above 'estimated', and if so for what year? Thank you, Nim Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, May 01, 1999 at 20:31:20 (EDT)
From: BlueBird Email: None To: Nim Subject: AmText FYI Message: Hi Nim, Yes, did you get it? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, May 01, 1999 at 21:56:58 (EDT)
From: Nim Email: None To: BlueBird Subject: AmText FYI Message: Hi Blue Bird No I didn't get it. So I'll ask again. Where did the document you posted come from? Was it the Florida Corporate Search link provided by Mary M? And what about the sales figure? Was it 'estimated' and hence the 'E' beside the figure? And for what year? What do you think? Thanks again, Nim Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, May 01, 1999 at 23:25:31 (EDT)
From: Shamrock ;-) Email: None To: Nim Subject: AmText FYI Message: Hi Nim, Piqued my curiosity! So... I checked out BlueBirds info. Blue probably got it from a business source search on the web. Like Dun and Bradstreet. The $1.4m is for the latest year 98? Here's the report via cut and paste! Just copy to wordpad or whatever and set to Courier 10 pt Font for best viewing. Do you know how Dettmers ended up in all these companies? Amtext Inc Text Mart 11900 Biscayne Blvd Miami, FL 33181-2743 TELEPHONE: 305-892-0900 COUNTY: DADE MSA: 5000 (Miami, FL) REGION: South Atlantic BUSINESS: Wholesales and Retails Books Periodicals and Newspapers PRIMARY SIC: Books, periodicals, and newspapers Books SECONDARY SIC(S): Book stores Book stores, nsk LATEST YEAR ORGANIZED: 1985 STATE OF INCORPORATION: FL DATE OF INCORPORATION: 12/04/1985 ANNUAL SALES REVISION DATE: 01/03/1998 LATEST TREND BASE YEAR YEAR YEAR (1996) (1994) SALES $ 1,400,000E $ NA $ NA EMPLOYEES TOTAL: 11 11 5 EMPLOYEES HERE: 5 SALES GROWTH: NA % NET WORTH: $ NA EMPLOYMENT GROWTH: 120 % SQUARE FOOTAGE: NA Rented SALES TERRITORY: U.S. NUMBER OF ACCOUNTS: NA BANK: Northern Trust Bank Florida NA THIS IS: A HEADQUARTERS LOCATION AN ULTIMATE LOCATION A CORPORATION PRESIDENT: Nathan, Charles /Pres VICE PRESIDENT: Potter, P D /V Pres TREASURER: Blanche, Paula C /Treas FINANCE: Blanche, Paula /Financial Officer OTHER OFFICER: Blanche, Paula /Financial Officer LATEST UPDATE TO RECORD: 01/08/98 990403 AMTEXT INC IN DATE CHIEF EXECUTIVE: CHARLES NATHAN, PRES |
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Date: Sun, May 02, 1999 at 00:20:29 (EDT)
From: Mary M Email: None To: Shamrock ;-) Subject: ** NIM Read Above** ^ NT Message: I guess that report is for you! Luv, M Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, May 03, 1999 at 18:50:08 (EDT)
From: Peter Email: None To: Blue Bird Subject: AmText FYI Message: I remember Peter Potter from the early days in the U.K. I guess he has moved up in the world. I wondered what he was doing , always with brief-case & suit at programmes. He must be quite wealthy by now. Only hope it's not at the expense of any premies. He is/was a really nice guy. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, Apr 27, 1999 at 20:59:30 (EDT)
From: TD Email: thedefector@hotmail.com To: Everyone Subject: Can you help out here? Message: Hi everyone. Recently I have been communicating with via e-mail, a guy who told me about the following encounter with the Big M. I suggested to him that I would post his tale on to the forum and see what feedback we got from other ex-premies, exes who would probably be able to shed more light on it and make more helpful comment than I could, particularly some of you old-timers who may have even gone to the same festival. Any feedback would be appreciated as I've told him I'll let him know where to come to read any comments. Thanks in anticipation, and here goes: ***** Hi TD, Thanks for getting back to me. Sometime back in the mid 70's I was living in Hawaii. I was getting ready to fly back to Massachusetts for a visit, when 2 friends of mine suggesed I go to see Guru Maharaji Ji at a big festival that was to be held at the University of Mass. I decided to go, but didn't quite know what to expect. When I arrived, there was a big concert the 1st night, excellent music. The next day everyone was going to get up early to meet the man. I decided to sleep in and arrived a couple hours after most of the people. They had formed a giant, long line. I would say there were many thousands of people. It was a nice day, so I didn't mind going to the end of the line. I wasn't there about 15 minutes, when he arrived. He had decided to start at the end of the line, instead of the beginning. Before I knew it, he was approaching me, sitting in a trailer, towed by a small tractor. I did as everyone else did when he went by me. I bent over and kissed his foot. I can hardly explain what happened next, but it was pure bliss, a white light. I really thought I had died and went to heaven. I was out quite awhile, probably over 30 minutes. I slowly came back and saw he was about 1/2 way through the crowd. There were numerous other people layed out as well. I did not go there looking for any kind of spiritual happening, I just went with an open mind. I stuck around for a couple days and was finally showed how to meditate. I went back to Hawaii and continued to meditate for about 3 months, before finally giving it up. You would have thought after what I experienced, I would have followed him forever, but it didn't happen. I was doing a lot of mind altering drugs in those days, but none on that trip. What happened that day, I still don't know. I've tried to explain it to others over the years, but they just thought I was crazy, so now I don't bother to mention it to anyone anymore. I'd like your input on what happened. Did this same experience happen to very many others that you know of? I'm quite certain I'll never experience anything like it again until I die. ***** Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, Apr 27, 1999 at 21:24:48 (EDT)
From: crow Email: None To: TD Subject: sho nuff Message: To be quite honest with you, I kissed Mata Ji's feet in boston in 74 and thought I had an experience. I know that many people had experiences kissing his feet, but to be honest, I thought 'what is wrong with me?' because It was just -kissing his feet- time after time. If life wanted him to be a success, he would have had some clarity about how to behave to others. Starting with his family and on to everyone else. He was supposed to be the one we all loved but I invite you to read the Joan Apter story (*maybe someone will move it up here) so that you can see what the result is when a person J. Apter, gives her life to following him intensly for thirty years and is perhaps the most vivid example possible of the failure of this guru trip. She followed ALL the directions and commands and put up with all of his excesses and domination and callousness and disregard. She led the brigades, the Joan of Arc of the lord rawat universe of love. She is a tattered wreck and has no spirit anymore. He has exhausted her. For all her efforts and all his grandious claims and promises, she is left pathetically waving the flag of white instead of living in heaven on earth with the living lord who was going to 'give us that experience'. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, Apr 27, 1999 at 21:28:13 (EDT)
From: Sir David Email: david.studio57@btinternet.com To: TD Subject: Can you help out here? Message: You cannot believe everything you read and I have a big problem with this story. I'm not American but I have never heard of a darshan line where people kiss Maharaji's feet while he has been driven along in a tractor trailer. Anyone ever hear of this? Also, if Maharaji ever DID do a program at the University of Mass I'd be very surprised if thousands of premies would be there and certainly there would be no darshan. As far as I know, after Copenhagen and possibly a few other darshan lines in the first half of the seventies at big festivals, darshan was always done down a blue tunnel. There was a mobile Maharaji done at Kissimee, Florida because I was there and I believe that was the first time he'd tried it and there was no kissing of feet, just a drive past and wave. Looking at this story further, it would be quite impossible to have toe kissing darshan with a mobile Maharaji on a trailer behind a tractor. People would be in danger of getting run over and the security needed for darshans would have had to have run alongside the trailer to prevent people from abusing their darshan privilage. This story sounds like a fabrication designed to make people believe Maharaji is something special. I find it very suspicious. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, Apr 27, 1999 at 21:47:04 (EDT)
From: ed Email: None To: Sir David Subject: Can you help out here? Message: There was a program called Amhest? in 1974 summer i believe. Durga Ji's coming out. There was couch, a loveseat, M and D sat it on the first day, or first time. Then she sat on the floor. I remember we stayed in dorm rooms, it was a three day program. It was a typical three day event, and the same number of people showed, I don't know 4, 5, 6, 7 thousand showed. I also remember, just barely that there was some kind of moving contraption that M sat on for darshan. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, Apr 27, 1999 at 23:43:27 (EDT)
From: eb Email: None To: ed Subject: to ed Message: You got it right. Summer of '74. Stayed in dorms. Beautiful sunsets/lightening storm. Didn't the stage look like a half dome? I coulda been high. Mobile Darshan. I remember lining up to kiss his feet. I stared long and hard into his eyes and fell in love right then and there for the next 15 years. eb Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, Apr 27, 1999 at 21:47:46 (EDT)
From: barney Email: None To: Sir David Subject: mobile darshan Amherst true Message: No, it's absolutely true. The darshan was outdoors in a field or parking lot and Maharaji was towed around on a trailer thing. I saw the bright white light once, but not there. It was after I started going to satsang, but had not yet received K and I was getting into bed and the white light flashed in my haid. It felt warm and nice. What might be unbelievable about this story is that he saw the white light in darshan when he had zero understanding of what was going on. However, I'll accept it and, sure, it causes me to wonder. Perhaps, for someone being open picks up on the energy of the Master. I'll pseudo-science it off as via the comparison to any object can pick up static electricity and can discharge to other objects. Perhaps, Maharaji in his role as Perfect Master is continuously coddled, loved, and adulated receives constant warm fuzzies he may radiate energy. Then again, maybe he IS GOD. However, this person and many of us here have had similar experiences and stopped practicing and eventually left Maharaji. I would suspect that followers of other Guru's have seen light as well. Apparently, you can get the same from heroin. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Apr 28, 1999 at 04:58:24 (EDT)
From: cp Email: None To: barney Subject: YOU ASKED FOR ITTT...... Message: true true true thousands of people- women and children first but I dont remember kissing feet Just remember the trailer I might have been too pregnant to focus. My personal theory is that M 's bieng a strutting-cum-humble Saggitarius makes/made him dammed magnetic to people needing to be a groopie. Dont anybody jump all over that- it can just be seen as a discription to be decoded by astorlogers amongst us. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Apr 28, 1999 at 05:03:56 (EDT)
From: Bill Cooper Email: None To: barney Subject: mobile darshan Amherst true Message: Heres my two cents. I had a similar experience in Orlando on one of those long festivals. I was thoroughly pissed off, and had really got to the point of accepting that the whole thing was a con. Anyway I went through darshan one more time I think to have some sort of completion on the whole trip. I was actually thinking about lunch as i rounded the bend and saw GM and bang ! Off i went into the white light, and that kept me going for another three years untill that wall of doubt broke through and made me walk away. If you are interested you can read my story in the journeys section. I know muslims who have had simlar experiences kissing that stone the kabba during ramadam. I feel that wether we recognise it or not there are psychological triggers from objects, crowds, beliefs etc that can generate these experiences. I dont think GM is special anymore and certainly not someone who should be making me live as a destitute, without a proffesion, at his beck and call as a darshan junkie. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Apr 28, 1999 at 09:21:47 (EDT)
From: Jerry Email: None To: barney Subject: Bright white light Message: I saw the bright white light once, but not there. It was after I started going to satsang, but had not yet received K and I was getting into bed and the white light flashed in my haid. It felt warm and nice. I once had an experience of a flash of bright white light but it wasn't anything pleasant. It was more like an electric jolt. I have no idea what caused it. I assume it was just my neurons sending signals big time like they never had before or since. The brain does operate on electric currents along with chemical reactions. I guess every now and then some kind of short happens that causes these 'spiritual' experiences. I guess. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, Apr 27, 1999 at 21:48:14 (EDT)
From: Runamok Email: None To: Sir David Subject: Can you help out here? Message: Was this Amherst? I think you are overreacting to him Sir D. Sounds like the usual rubbish that we all left behind. Why did it happen? Who cares but maybe it was all flashbacks and psychosomatic. Whatever it was, the fact that he walked away from it speaks for itself as much as any comment anyone could add. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, Apr 27, 1999 at 21:53:12 (EDT)
From: selene Email: None To: Runamok Subject: Can you help out here? Message: I grew up there. Anything is possible, it's a fun place acutally. . I was out of it at the time but remember the moving contraption story. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, Apr 27, 1999 at 22:11:19 (EDT)
From: Traveler Email: None To: selene Subject: Can you help out here? Message: After I received Knowledge and tried practicing meditation for a few weeks I decided I didn't want to do it anymore. I sat down on the floor in the middle of my room and closed my eyes to 'Say goodbye to Maharaji.' As soon as my eyes closed a bright ball of light rushed at me and knocked me flat on my back. I thought, 'I guess I won't quit.' Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Apr 28, 1999 at 00:02:21 (EDT)
From: Sir David Email: None To: Traveler Subject: A bit like Mary manifestations Message: Only the chosen few ever get these divine experiences. What the narrators of these revelations fail to realise is that nobody believes them or takes them seriously since they are not most people's experiences, including most premies. There were many such tales back in the seventies. Divine manifestations of Maharaji or light brighter than ten thousand suns. Once I thought I saw Maharaji drive past me in a car in France. I was convinced it was one of these divine manifestations because at the time, he was in Marbella, Spain. But the car turned right and parked down the road and when I went past it in another car, the Maharaji guy wasn't Maharaji at all. Or was it the same car? The first time I went to a Maharaji program I sat at the back and got very deep into meditation - the deepest I'd ever been into it. I thought that it was proof that Maharaji was the Lord but the ensuing years proved me otherwise. We have a subject here which is totally subjective, as is all individual experience. The divine manifestations don't equate with the person of Maharaji or his character. Nor do they equate with his results. Now I wouldn't put my worst enemy through the Maharaji trip. I conclude that it takes a certain type (of rare) person to get anything out of following Maharaji. They are the premies. But their mistake is in thinking that their trip is for other people who they try to convert. But there are Catholics who have seen the Virgin Mary and Hindus who have seen statues of Ganesh drinking milk. Loads of Christians have seen Jesus manifest in person and balls of bright light have been seen by religious and non religious people the world over. I know some people who've seen light brighter than the sun and they are not premies. By the way, the milk drinking Ganesh trick was eventually exposed when some guy got a statue of Mickey Mouse to drink the milk. It's just a cheap parlour trick. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Apr 28, 1999 at 02:59:09 (EDT)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Sir David Subject: A bit like Mary manifestations Message: Dear David, Yes, I have heard of the milk and the statues too. Just some chemical reaction or something. All I know is I never had an experience in darshan but then I always thought it was a bit of an odd thing to do. I just stood in line all day and socialized, can you imagine that! :) The only experience with darshan that I ever had was before I knew I was pregnant with Jess, I was in a darshan line talking with a group of people and an anouncement was made for mothers with small children and pregnant women, to come to the front of the line. My head snapped around toward the direction on the voice like they were calling my name. I ignored it at the time but remembered it when I found out that I was pregnant. I chalked that up to my own brand of experiences and gave M no credit which is what he deserved. Love, Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Apr 28, 1999 at 05:09:25 (EDT)
From: Sir Dave Email: None To: Robyn Subject: A bit like Mary manifestations Message: Perhaps your subconscious knew you were pregnant, before you knew it consciously. Strangely enough, I had a similar yet different experience when my first child was conceived. I somehow felt very strongly that a baby was due and was not surprised when I got the phone call telling me this. The milk drinking Mickey Mouse was a plastic one. I'll try it tonight with Doctor Ken or Barbie and see how much they can drink. Something to do with osmosis or something. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Apr 28, 1999 at 05:51:37 (EDT)
From: Sir Dave Email: david.studio57@btinternet.com To: Sir Dave Subject: You too can be God Message: Just remembered a thing which happened in the seventies where I was with a new premie and I was giving her satsang in her house and she told me that she was more high and blissed out than she'd ever been in her life, even more than with Maharaji or his Mahatmas. I was feeling OK but I wasn't truly blissed out, but she was in the seventh heaven. This just goes to show how totally subjective any 'divine' experience is. Even Maharaji has admitted that he's done a program and felt absolutely nothing, zilch, and yet the premies have been saying that it was the most fantastic experience ever. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Apr 28, 1999 at 09:43:24 (EDT)
From: Jerry Email: None To: Robyn Subject: Head snapping Message: My head snapped around toward the direction on the voice like they were calling my name. OK, Robyn, my turn. When I mentioned that I stopped to listen to the sound of water at fountains, you pictured me stopping at every 'drinking' fountain I came across. I just pictured your head snapping around like Regan in The Exorcist when you mentioned your head 'snapping' toward the direction of the voice. Must have been quite an experience, not just for you, but the people around you as well. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Apr 28, 1999 at 12:10:15 (EDT)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Jerry Subject: Head snapping Message: Dear Jerry, Well, I carried to much wood at once last night and I re aggrivated a stiff neck I got a few weeks ago and now I read this... Ouch! Don't you think it is cosmic! JUST KIDDING!!!!!!!!!!!! :) Never saw that movie as I don't do scary movies, on the same lines as staying away from the conflict here I guess. I am such a whimp! Love, Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Apr 28, 1999 at 15:06:59 (EDT)
From: AJW Email: None To: Traveler Subject: Cosmic Experiences Message: Hi traveler, Once I left my body and arrived in an eternal place where I was at the feet of my Master. I felt, 'if only I can stay here forever I will be eternally happy' So I lay, flat out on the floor in my friend's living room, in front of Maharaji's picture. I lay there for about three hours. The guests left. Everyone went to bed. Then the magic was broken. I had to go for a piss. I had a similar 'out of body' experience when I followed my previous Guru, Sai Baba. I also remember when I was about 10, feeling that my bedroom walls went on forever, and I was like a tiny bean, laying on a pillow. Then someone put fifty matresses on me, something about finding out if someone was a real princess. But that's another story. Ayjaydoubleyou. (I've quit gurus for good now,). Anth. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Apr 28, 1999 at 18:02:08 (EDT)
From: Liz Email: None To: AJW and All. Subject: Karma Kandies Message: I've just been reading on Jean's page, satsang from Shri Hans where he talks about Karma Kandies - I think he is referring to Gurus who give people cosmic experiences and he's saying this isn't IT. (Sai Baba is definately a Karma Kandy.) I've also just read a book called 'Karma Cola' about the selling of the Hindu Yoga trip by Gita Mehta. Both reads were very interesting. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Apr 28, 1999 at 10:02:34 (EDT)
From: Victoria Email: None To: TD Subject: Hope this helps (long post) Message: The first time I saw M in 1976 in Portland, my sister talked me into it. I didn't want to go until she said, what if it was -- I forget who, some famous personality, a celebrity -- wouldn't you want to go, just to see him, just to say you saw him??? What if he is God? Would you pass up an opportunity to see God? She said she thought it would be pretty spectacular just to see the guy who says he's god, even if he isn't God. So, what the fuck, I went along for the ride. We filled up the VW bug with premies and aspirants and me, and drove up north. There wasn't enough time or room in the car for sleeping, we might have taken something to keep us awake, I don't remember, exactly. The whole way, we talked about kissing his feet and listened to tapes of his satsang. I wasn't going to join the line, but decided to do so at the last minute since, this was my chance to see guru as god, up close and personal. Figured I would just walk by and look at him, no feet-kissing. I remember as kids, my brothers and sisters and I used to make fun of devotees -- something we got from cartoons, is my guess -- and we would bow down to each other saying 'Salami, salami, ah, baloney' and the kid playing the sultan would say 'Kiss my feet!' The actual feet-kissing idea is so foreign, I was taught and I bought the whole rugged individualism American dream, we don't have kings, we have Liberty or we have Death! etc., etc. Back to the darshan line, there I am feeling very foolish and self-conscious, music is playing, finally I just start dancing, trying to relax into the music and forget myself. With a loud scratch on the PA system, the music stops. I think to myself, there he is, he won't let me feel comfortable, I have to face myself. So, even though I think of those days as antagonistic toward M, I was already caught up in magical thinking...as were all my traveling companions. (Peer group pressure and group high at work here, folks.) Yes, I had a tremendous experience kissing his feet that time and every other time, also. It was THIS experience that I used often in my efforts at converting my friends, neighbors, family, co-workers, strangers I happened to meet, etc., etc. 'You just can't believe how blissful it is! Like an acid trip!' Funny, since I never really liked acid all that much. Looking back on it, I don't think it was so incredible. Because things happened around M that were unexplainable, I figured that meant he was god. What I didn't know was that in India and elsewhere, there are a whole lot of people who manipulate the energy in ways that seem miraculous. Of course, here in the U.S., many of the people who knew how to do this sort of thing were burned at the stake as witches. They were seen not as godlike, but devilish. After meditating too much, I myself had fantastic experiences of clairvoyance and precognition (which, by the way, I did not like). I was only 18 years old when I first kissed his feet, and I did not become an instant gopi because of it, I still had my doubts. Now that I am over 40, I have had lots and lots of experiences which are truly 'mind-blowing' and behaving in a way which is totally antithetical to your self is the best way to do it. For example, go to the rainbow gathering and take off all of your clothes (IF going naked in public is NOT your best fantasy, this will blow your mind, put you in THAT place). Or if bugs are totally disgusting to you and they make your skin crawl, then eat a chocolate-covered ant! Wow, what a concept blower, what an experience! (Try to be open-minded while you do this abhorrent stuff, it helps attain the desired result.) Let's see, hmmm, one more example to round out the paragraph...if you are normally shy and demure, then go up to that sexy dream-guy or girl and say, 'Wanna fuck?' (warning this doesn't work for sluts). Pushing the envelope is really what it is all about. If you have a lot of energy and a more wholesome approach to life than I have, then you could just get the feeling by extending yourself physically...rock-climbing, sky-diving, staying up all night writing a damn-good paper -- what a high! Sorry so long, you just got me going. I can relate to this thread. Love, Victoria Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Apr 28, 1999 at 12:32:45 (EDT)
From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Victoria Subject: 'Experience' with instructors Message: A friend of mine told me once that he had some incredible 'experience' with me one time. I've never experienced anything special, except for the 'inner experience' shared with other persons in the cult. I couldn't believe him! I mean, I had to! I thought he was a bit nuts. I think that type of 'experience' is triggered by your expectations, and can happen in various circumstances. The 'God' stuff is some kind of very powerful catalyst I guess, and anything can trigger the 'experience' according to the environment. In m's cult, it's his 'darshan', divine presence, etc.... conditioned by all the fairy tales you've heard from premies, or your own expectations and conditioning. This is nothing 'divine', I'm sorry. In other sub-culture, it's called magic, love, or any other word. Same experience, same feelings, other conditioning. Somer part of our brain has to be involved in this. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Apr 28, 1999 at 12:54:59 (EDT)
From: Happy Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: Bright Lights, Small Fry Message: I guess most of us have experienced very strange and beautiful things - but also learnt the expensive lesson that it really doesn't prove anything at all. It all can be explained as expectations, hypnotic rapport betweeen two persons like guru and disciple, and whatever. I think it was nigel who recently presented a really interesting explanation for the light experience. How much light one experiences really says more about the expectations (conscious or unconscious) of the individual at a particular moment than about the size of the fry. Jean-Michel: Thanks a lot for the book! It arrived today. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Apr 29, 1999 at 00:59:45 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Victoria Subject: Thanks Victoria Message: I hear you all the way. I was doing security at that program, by the way. Do you remember me? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Apr 29, 1999 at 10:48:06 (EDT)
From: Victoria Email: None To: Jim Subject: Darshan Security Message: Jim, Yes, I remember people standing around as I rounded the corner. It felt kind of scary, I remember wondering what y'all were doing there. Afterwards, someone explained to me that you were there to assist premies who went into Samadhi...to take them to the Darshan Recovery Room. Just re-reading what I wrote, it really is a little embarrassing. I think we behaved in certain ways (kissing feet and drinking bathwater, for example) and then later our minds (thank God-if-there-is-a-god we have them) concocted ways to understand and allow this behavior. I think it is a little like young men who go to war and end up doing things they never thought they would or could or should do -- but did do truly abhorrent things in efforts of self-preservation, and in the midst of a group-think. When I left Maharaji, there was very little to read on the subject. Much of the writing I came across did not have the depth of understanding, was more like the Readers Digest Condensed version of 'How to tell if your child is being victimized by a cult' which were similar to the 'How to tell if your child is taking drugs' type of articles. The good intentions were there, but from the outside, looking in and not quite connecting to the problem, if you know what I mean. I was helped by articles about POWs who had been victims of brainwashing. These articles helped more than my problem-specific articles. Except that people I spoke with always minimized my experience as such...after all, I was free to go. On the other hand, I think it is precisely because we were free to go that we did not go. If we had been love-bombed and stuck on some farm in the middle of nowhere, like the Moonies, there would have been a clear sight of what to fight against and what to try to hold on to. And this is also the reason, I believe, that de-programming did not work so well with premies...the de-programming experience being more akin to some of the more drastic measures taken by other cult groups to indoctrinate their members. Now, here's the third hand, after leaving M, I felt such distrust of myself for having fallen into such total crap...I really could not say, I would never be a Moonie or I would never burn a village. I honestly felt that, given the circumstances of whatever situation I found myself in, I would certainly find some way to adapt, to rationalize, to somehow survive in the midst of an insane reality. I guess it is like gaining some small measure of control when we are totally out-of-control. ************ Anyway, I was more afraid of you as a Darshan Security Premie than as an Ex. I'm not afraid of you at all, even though you were somewhat challenging to me when I first started posting here. I saw the challenge as an invitation to examine further my thoughts and feelings and motivations in posting here, and not as a personal attack. The thought did cross my mind, 'Hey, I'm on his side, what gives?' But, in the end, you know, here we are in the REAL world...not in some imaginary Everything-is-going-to-be-all-right world with M as puppetmaster and whatever occurs in this world that we don't like is some kind of Concept-Buster that is truly a gift from Our Lord, that is an opportunity to SURRENDER, blah-blah-blah. Sorry, long post again, Love, Victoria Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Apr 29, 1999 at 11:44:03 (EDT)
From: Sir David Email: david.studio57@btinternet.com To: Victoria Subject: Darshan Security Message: OK, OK, you're obviously not a current follower, Victoria. I'll post you that info soon. Sorry to have been so suspicious but I had to be. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Apr 29, 1999 at 19:45:53 (EDT)
From: Victoria Email: None To: Sir David Subject: no problem Sir(nt) Message: whatever you want =) V. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Apr 29, 1999 at 13:29:56 (EDT)
From: Mary M Email: None To: Victoria Subject: Darshan Security Message: Hi Victoria, What an incredibly insightful post. Thank You so much. Love, Mary M Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Apr 29, 1999 at 13:51:51 (EDT)
From: Zac Email: None To: Victoria Subject: Victoria I am liking your Message: posts. Good, clean, rational, pragmatic stuff. POR shram to HI, dk hr, eyes. si senorita? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Apr 28, 1999 at 15:18:32 (EDT)
From: JW Email: None To: TD Subject: My Opinion Message: Yes, that was Amherst, Massachusetts in 1974. Guru Puja festival held on the campus of the University of Massachusetts. We stood along the side of a circular road, on both sides, and Maharaji came around in a mobile contraption and gave darshan. I had had knowledge for about a year at that point and didn't experience much of anything when I kissed his feet. I recall standing for hours in the hot, humid Summer heat. I don't think it's possible to comment on the sources of other peoples' subjective 'experiences.' Who knows? I think the fact that this guy went back to Hawaii and blew the whole thing off is an indication of how illusory the 'experience' was. Actions speak a whole lot louder than words, as they say. In my experience people usually embellish the intensity of experience over time, especially if they recount the experience to others. What actually happened, and what he, today, believes happened, could be very different. I am very skeptical of these kinds of stories. Plus he indicates he had been doing a lot of drugs at the time -- probably a contributing factor. Drug flashbacks in intense situations like that are not uncommon. I think the experiences people have at programs and in darshan have much to do with a 'group' experience. I'm not exactly sure how it works, but I think being with thousands of people in rapt expectation of something wonderful has an effect on you. 'Crowd mentality' frees people from a lot of inhibitions they otherwise have. This is both in the progam itself, with the music, etc., but also at darshan when one is so focused on one, singular event. I think people either work themselves up to believe something cosmic and spiritual is happening, or they are somehow affected by everyone else who is doing so. I do not for a minute believe M has any powers to give anyone an internal experience. We do that ourselves. I also think it's interesting, that if darshan is such a big deal, that M hasn't given darshan in North America or Europe in about 15 years, and I doubt he will ever do it again. When it comes to darshan, I always remember the festival in which the hall had no accommodations for the darshan fainters, the numbers of which had grown exponentially over the years, and Joe Anctil announced from the stage that premies should not faint, and virtually no one did. So much for some overwhelming inner experience! I grew to dislike darshan immensely after about the 20th time. It was boring, stupid, overly dramatic, hyped with tunnels, carpet and music, and I had to see Maharaji up close and he didn't look too good -- fat, greasy and bored. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Apr 29, 1999 at 00:30:36 (EDT)
From: TD Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Thanks everyone! Message: Hey thanks everyone for your contributions to this thread (short AND long - thanks Victoria!), and I'm glad we got a variety of reactions to it, as I think its ultimately more helpful when you do get a whole heap of differing viewpoints. I should probably just mention that it was me who suggested to this person that I post his story, as opposed to the other way around. He didn't e-mail me with the intention that his story would reach a wider audience than me, so I'm pretty sure there wasn't any ulterior motive other than for him wondering about what he experienced that day back in 1974. Thanks again and regards, TD Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Apr 29, 1999 at 10:52:14 (EDT)
From: Victoria Email: None To: TD Subject: Thanks TD! Message: Your welcome and thanks for mentioning that my long post was okay, I guess I will stick around even though my friend Helen is leaving. {;o) Victoria Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Apr 29, 1999 at 12:31:07 (EDT)
From: Brainy Email: None To: Victoria Subject: Don't you even think about... Message: leaving! You're taking Helen's place except not as often or as often as you want. It was a good post! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Apr 29, 1999 at 19:51:49 (EDT)
From: Victoria Email: None To: Friends Subject: To Mary M, Brainy, and Zac Message: Thanks. I'm not leaving the forum, it was just a joke. I've never been to Hawaii, but would like to go there one day. Love, Victoria Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Apr 30, 1999 at 19:49:42 (EDT)
From: nigel Email: nigel@redcrow.demon.co.uk To: TD Subject: Can you help out here? Message: Well Mrs TD, me ol' antipodean fruitgum, you might consider all of the following: (1) Maharaji is indeed the Superior Power in Person, The Lord of the Universe, the Highest Incarnation Ever of Vishnu, Shiva, Brahma, Krishna, Rama, Ramakrishna, Rama Rama, Krishna Krishna, Hare Hare, Hanumen, Albumen, Jeepers, Kreepers, Buddha, Budweiser, Satpal, Taj Mahal, Moses, Mohammed Ali, Mohammed Al-Fayed, Lao Tzu, Shitzu and Ho, Ho, Ho Chi Min, returned to earth with all 64 yogic powers (scientifically verified) 'to make the Ramayana look like Noddy', and who, just for the sheer bloody fun of it, decided to zap this unbiased, innocent bystander who just happened to be kissing his tootsies at the time - as innocent bystanders are wont to do - with simply lashings of cosmic bliss - but sadly not enough of the white stuff to keep him coming back for more. (Let's face it - M would never make a crack dealer at the playground gates...) (2) The guy was doing 'a lot of drugs at that time' ('but not on that trip') which suggests he'd been doing lots just before, and continued to do lots afterwards. There are many substances which will affect your brain for a while. Even pot will bung up your synapses for a few months and influence your moods in subtle ways. Or if he was doing loads of drugs after the event, then who knows what magic-mushroom filtered memories of the divine moment he might be reporting. (3) How rare or common is seeing light? People see (or feel) light during all sorts of emotionally charged situations - even during regular encounters in nookie-land. If it had happened in another context he wouldn't be telling us about it. Meanwhile, the majority of conscientious devotees who detail their darshan experiences don't get knocked unconscious by blinding white light. Usually it is just some fuzzy experience 'of the heart'. Fainting in the darshan line mysteriously ceased to be a problem after The Hamster decreed he didn't want any more of that stuff - almost as if he hadn't been providing those experiences in the first place... And the guy can't have been totally emotionally disconnected, or he wouldn't have even been up for a spot of toe-kissing. This is Prem Rawat in greasy-haired teenage look we're talking about, right..? (4) He could always be a lying bastard. He sounds like he was a bit of a hippy at the time, and hippies are always full of shit. (I'm not saying he is a lying bastard, of course - nor even a shit-filled hippy. I don't have to email him, so it's easy for me...) He could even be a practising premie trying to gather you back into the fold with this incontrovertible evidence. But probably not. So where is he coming from, exactly? Why is he emailing? (5) 'Mass hysteria'. It is pretty rare and doesn't lend itself to proper research. If it exists, we don't really know what it is. But back in nineteen something-something about ten thousand massed catholics all saw the sun fall from the sky... Likewise a darshan line is a very strange social situation with similar holy context and massed ranks of awed followers, so who knows? (6) There is a line at the start of Lord of the Rings or the Hobbit that goes 'this tale has grown with the telling...' Strange tales - especially those dealing with ghostly encounters or paranormal phenomena are notorious for getting taller each time they are recounted. It helps keep your audience, win friends and influence people. I think we all do it to some extent - just tarting up the details of some anecdote to give it an extra something. I mean, was the light really that bright? Was he really unconscious for as long as all that? Repeat an exaggeration enough times and you start to believe it. (7) A mix of some or all of explanations (2) - (6). Unless you discount all of these, you'd have to be a made-to-measure believer-in-waiting to accept explanation (1). (I wrote this before reading Joe's reply, which makes many of the same points. And when JW and I concur on a subject you've got to pay attention. He's always right and so am I. Even about Chomsky, Jim...) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, May 01, 1999 at 03:34:26 (EDT)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: nigel Subject: Can you help out here? Message: Dearest Nigel, 'But back in nineteen something-something about ten thousand massed catholics all saw the sun fall from the sky... ' Maybe that is what's been wrong with my mother!!!!! :) Love, Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |