Ex-Premie.Org

Forum III Archive # 48

From: May 21, 1999

To: May 30, 1999

Page: 1 Of: 5



Gail -:- Gail is banned from programs -:- Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 07:17:39 (EDT)
__RT -:- EV banned from Gail's home. -:- Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 08:34:37 (EDT)
____Gail -:- EV banned from Gail's home. -:- Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 16:32:35 (EDT)
______RT -:- EV banned from Gail's home. -:- Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 22:34:04 (EDT)
__Brian -:- Maharaji is an asshole -:- Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 10:39:59 (EDT)
____Gail -:- EV bans fringe premies -:- Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 12:05:03 (EDT)
______Sid Nigh -:- EV bans fringe premies -:- Sat, May 29, 1999 at 05:11:45 (EDT)
__Jim -:- Take them up on it, Gail -:- Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 11:24:28 (EDT)
____Gail -:- Gail's Going to the Meeting -:- Fri, May 28, 1999 at 15:50:37 (EDT)
______Jim -:- Can I come too? -:- Fri, May 28, 1999 at 22:17:39 (EDT)
________Gail -:- Can I come too? -:- Fri, May 28, 1999 at 23:01:47 (EDT)
__BILL -:- Gail is banned from programs -:- Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 11:58:38 (EDT)
____Gail -:- Michael Duhaney is an old-time -:- Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 12:15:32 (EDT)
______Gail -:- Catweasel, please let me in! -:- Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 12:19:43 (EDT)
________Catweasel -:- Catweasel, please let me in! -:- Sat, May 29, 1999 at 05:07:12 (EDT)
__________Gail -:- Catweasel, please let me in! -:- Sat, May 29, 1999 at 07:47:02 (EDT)
______Blue Bird -:- Michael Duhaney is thief -:- Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 13:26:07 (EDT)
________Gail -:- Michael Duhaney has paid debt -:- Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 15:32:31 (EDT)
____Clarification -:- Who is welcome? -:- Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 21:54:06 (EDT)
______Absentte Owner -:- Who is welcome? -:- Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 22:00:08 (EDT)
______Jim -:- Don't forget -:- Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 22:35:10 (EDT)
______JW -:- Who is welcome? -:- Fri, May 28, 1999 at 14:09:02 (EDT)
________Mike -:- Who is welcome? -:- Fri, May 28, 1999 at 15:02:53 (EDT)
__Katie -:- The door is closed? -:- Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 12:47:25 (EDT)
____Jean-Michel -:- No surprise for me -:- Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 13:19:47 (EDT)
____Gail -:- The door is closed? -:- Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 15:37:16 (EDT)
____CD -:- The door is closed? -:- Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 20:16:54 (EDT)
______Katie -:- The door is closed? -:- Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 20:32:24 (EDT)
________CD -:- The door is closed? -:- Fri, May 28, 1999 at 01:30:01 (EDT)
__________Katie -:- Thank you, Chris -:- Fri, May 28, 1999 at 11:57:11 (EDT)
__JW -:- Gail is banned from programs -:- Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 13:12:24 (EDT)
____Blue Bird -:- Gail is banned from programs -:- Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 14:33:47 (EDT)
______JW -:- Gail is banned from programs -:- Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 14:50:56 (EDT)
____CD -:- Gail is banned from programs -:- Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 20:19:30 (EDT)
______JW -:- Gail is banned from programs -:- Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 20:58:10 (EDT)
________Catweasel -:- Gail is banned from programs -:- Fri, May 28, 1999 at 05:16:27 (EDT)
__________JW -:- What the Hell..... -:- Fri, May 28, 1999 at 13:58:30 (EDT)
______Jim -:- Yeah, Chris, you're right -:- Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 21:00:03 (EDT)
______Helen -:- Gail is banned from programs -:- Fri, May 28, 1999 at 17:14:40 (EDT)
________CD -:- Gail is banned from programs -:- Sun, May 30, 1999 at 01:26:08 (EDT)
__________Gail -:- No open-door policy, CD -:- Sun, May 30, 1999 at 09:02:06 (EDT)
____Nil -:- Gail is banned from programs -:- Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 21:57:27 (EDT)
______Absentee Owner -:- Careful of folds -:- Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 22:01:54 (EDT)
______Don -:- Gail is banned from programs -:- Fri, May 28, 1999 at 16:06:51 (EDT)
______Helen -:- Gail is banned from programs -:- Fri, May 28, 1999 at 17:19:47 (EDT)
__Blue Bird -:- Who are the Gestapo? -:- Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 13:21:05 (EDT)
____Rahab -:- Who are the Gestapo? -:- Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 13:33:41 (EDT)
______gregg -:- last year in Denver... -:- Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 14:55:14 (EDT)
________Blue Bird -:- last year in Denver... -:- Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 15:14:22 (EDT)
__________report -:- small town videos -:- Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 16:59:27 (EDT)
____________Helen -:- small town videos -:- Fri, May 28, 1999 at 17:24:15 (EDT)
______________report -:- small town videos -:- Fri, May 28, 1999 at 22:45:37 (EDT)
________________Marianne -:- small town videos -:- Fri, May 28, 1999 at 22:49:23 (EDT)
__________________report -:- small town videos -:- Sat, May 29, 1999 at 01:09:03 (EDT)
____________________Helen -:- small town videos -:- Sat, May 29, 1999 at 09:04:16 (EDT)
______________________report -:- small town videos -:- Sat, May 29, 1999 at 17:28:28 (EDT)
________________________Marianne -:- small town videos -:- Sat, May 29, 1999 at 22:15:36 (EDT)
________________________Helen -:- This is good news -:- Sat, May 29, 1999 at 22:28:01 (EDT)
__________________________Marianne -:- This is good news -:- Sat, May 29, 1999 at 22:49:32 (EDT)
____________________________Helen -:- This is good news -:- Sun, May 30, 1999 at 08:54:19 (EDT)
________Don -:- last year in Denver... -:- Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 19:59:29 (EDT)
__________Don -:- And Also... -:- Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 20:07:20 (EDT)
____________cp -:- And Also... -:- Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 20:34:41 (EDT)
__________Jim -:- Hey Don and Gregg! -:- Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 20:41:37 (EDT)
______dv -:- The feed is from Echostar- -:- Fri, May 28, 1999 at 10:15:33 (EDT)
__Jean-Michel -:- I'll try in France -:- Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 17:20:02 (EDT)
____Gail -:- I'll try in France -:- Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 17:35:56 (EDT)
__Nil -:- Gail is banned from programs -:- Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 22:09:40 (EDT)
____Gail -:- Nil, let me play the fool -:- Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 23:28:15 (EDT)
____Mary M -:- Sometimes -:- Fri, May 28, 1999 at 17:39:47 (EDT)
__Sir Dave -:- The parable of the lost sheep -:- Fri, May 28, 1999 at 06:20:08 (EDT)
____Bad-Ass Dude -:- The parable of the lost sheep -:- Fri, May 28, 1999 at 12:48:28 (EDT)
______Helen -:- The parable of the lost sheep -:- Fri, May 28, 1999 at 17:29:39 (EDT)

Peter Brach -:- Try to heal, but keep truckin! -:- Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 04:12:33 (EDT)
__Gail -:- Try to heal, but keep truckin! -:- Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 07:13:09 (EDT)
____Bobby -:- Try to heal, but keep truckin! -:- Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 12:31:17 (EDT)
______Mary M -:- Try to heal, but keep truckin! -:- Fri, May 28, 1999 at 10:35:33 (EDT)
________Bobby -:- Try to heal, but keep truckin! -:- Sat, May 29, 1999 at 18:18:08 (EDT)
__Bobby -:- Try to heal, but keep truckin! -:- Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 12:03:07 (EDT)
____Anne -:- Try to heal, but keep truckin! -:- Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 17:06:23 (EDT)
____Gail -:- Try to heal, but keep truckin! -:- Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 18:28:57 (EDT)
____Katie -:- Try to heal, but keep truckin! -:- Fri, May 28, 1999 at 12:21:38 (EDT)
______RT -:- write this down -:- Fri, May 28, 1999 at 16:29:04 (EDT)
________Gail -:- write this down -:- Sat, May 29, 1999 at 15:54:12 (EDT)
____Helen -:- HI BOBBY -:- Fri, May 28, 1999 at 17:00:53 (EDT)
______Bobby -:- HI BOBBY -:- Sat, May 29, 1999 at 18:22:49 (EDT)
__gregg -:- Try to heal, but keep truckin! -:- Fri, May 28, 1999 at 17:30:35 (EDT)

Jim -:- Backstage for hypnosis show -:- Wed, May 26, 1999 at 22:27:55 (EDT)
__Rob -:- Backstage for hypnosis show -:- Wed, May 26, 1999 at 22:43:12 (EDT)
____Jim -:- No, it's more than that -:- Wed, May 26, 1999 at 22:54:49 (EDT)
______Rob -:- It's not easy -:- Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 00:36:25 (EDT)
________Jim -:- Funniest thing all day -:- Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 01:00:01 (EDT)
__________Rob -:- Funniest thing all day -:- Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 01:22:14 (EDT)
__________cp -:- Unprofessional -:- Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 01:23:01 (EDT)
____________mw -:- Hey! Buffy=Vampire Slayer (nt) -:- Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 08:41:10 (EDT)
__________Liz -:- Schamaltzy -:- Fri, May 28, 1999 at 01:03:50 (EDT)
__Michael Borden -:- Here come the Bagman -:- Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 05:44:38 (EDT)
____Mike -:- Here come the Bagman -:- Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 13:16:42 (EDT)
__Catweasel -:- Backstage for hypnosis show -:- Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 09:44:04 (EDT)
____Jerry -:- You kill me -:- Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 12:07:41 (EDT)
______Victoria -:- Why is Catweasel Here? -:- Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 15:40:45 (EDT)
________Jerry -:- Why is Catweasel Here? -:- Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 18:46:25 (EDT)
____Mike -:- THIS from a person(?) -:- Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 12:33:59 (EDT)
______Mike -:- I'm sorry.... -:- Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 12:44:05 (EDT)
________Victoria -:- Mikey Rainbow -:- Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 15:45:17 (EDT)
__________Mike -:- Mikey Rainbow -:- Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 16:36:21 (EDT)
____________cp -:- I do not see cat sneezle do U? -:- Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 17:11:44 (EDT)
______________Gail -:- Cat sneezle is a pleasure -:- Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 19:22:11 (EDT)
________________cp -:- Cat sneezle is a pleasure -:- Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 19:52:10 (EDT)
__________________Mary M -:- Rrrobert -:- Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 20:22:21 (EDT)
____________________Rob -:- My ears are burning! -:- Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 20:45:12 (EDT)
______________________Gail -:- You're such a cute plant, Rob -:- Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 21:19:05 (EDT)
________________________Jim -:- Hey, Rob -:- Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 21:22:01 (EDT)
__________________________Rob -:- Hey, Rob -:- Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 21:32:19 (EDT)
____________________________Jim -:- Then can you add this? -:- Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 21:49:25 (EDT)
____________________________Jerry -:- Things are getting weird -:- Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 22:04:28 (EDT)
______________________________Jim -:- Robert plant? -:- Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 22:20:04 (EDT)
________________________________Jerry -:- Robert plant? -:- Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 22:38:44 (EDT)
__________________________________Robert Plant -:- Robert plant? -:- Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 22:48:57 (EDT)
________________________________Rob -:- Robert plant? I'll take -:- Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 22:38:58 (EDT)
______________________________Rob -:- Things are getting weird -:- Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 22:23:54 (EDT)
________________________________Liz -:- ABC -:- Fri, May 28, 1999 at 00:57:27 (EDT)
__________________________________Rob -:- ABC -:- Fri, May 28, 1999 at 17:14:30 (EDT)
__________________________________Jim -:- Really, Liz? -:- Fri, May 28, 1999 at 20:27:30 (EDT)
________________________________Nim -:- YO... ROBBO! Weird indeed!! -:- Sat, May 29, 1999 at 09:46:42 (EDT)
__________________________________Gail -:- Barney is okay, Nim. -:- Sat, May 29, 1999 at 20:13:31 (EDT)
________________________Rob -:- You're such a cute plant, Rob -:- Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 21:41:32 (EDT)
__________________________Jerry -:- You think so? -:- Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 22:15:54 (EDT)
____________________________Rob -:- So sure -:- Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 22:44:26 (EDT)
__________________Gail -:- cp-Parlez-vous francais? -:- Fri, May 28, 1999 at 22:05:43 (EDT)
____________________cp -:- cp-Parlez-vous francais? -:- Sat, May 29, 1999 at 03:01:47 (EDT)
______________Catweasel -:- I do not see cat sneezle do U? -:- Fri, May 28, 1999 at 05:20:01 (EDT)
________________Sid NIGH -:- Rob unmasked -:- Fri, May 28, 1999 at 06:19:29 (EDT)
__________________Bare faced Rob -:- Rob unmasked -:- Fri, May 28, 1999 at 17:28:05 (EDT)
____________________Sid Nigh -:- Rob unmasked -:- Fri, May 28, 1999 at 23:05:34 (EDT)
________Gail -:- I'm sorry.... -:- Fri, May 28, 1999 at 18:57:16 (EDT)

Jim -:- Rob re Raja Ji -:- Wed, May 26, 1999 at 21:47:48 (EDT)
__Rob -:- Rob re Raja Ji -:- Wed, May 26, 1999 at 22:02:26 (EDT)
____Jim -:- Rob re Raja Ji -:- Wed, May 26, 1999 at 22:06:03 (EDT)
______Rob -:- Raja Ji -:- Wed, May 26, 1999 at 22:30:02 (EDT)
________Jim -:- Fine, then -:- Wed, May 26, 1999 at 22:57:34 (EDT)
__________Rob -:- How about -:- Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 00:19:14 (EDT)
____________Jim -:- Sure. Here it is.... -:- Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 00:55:00 (EDT)
______________Blue Bird -:- Sure. Here it is.... -:- Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 13:42:35 (EDT)
________________Jim -:- Maybe -:- Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 22:45:44 (EDT)
__________________g's mom -:- Hey, did he pick up the tab? -:- Fri, May 28, 1999 at 14:03:00 (EDT)
____________________Jim -:- No, but he gave me some -:- Fri, May 28, 1999 at 21:50:33 (EDT)
______________________Gail -:- Food tickets -:- Fri, May 28, 1999 at 22:28:46 (EDT)
____Liz -:- Rob re Raja Ji -:- Wed, May 26, 1999 at 22:08:32 (EDT)
______Rob -:- email -:- Wed, May 26, 1999 at 22:48:51 (EDT)
________Gail -:- You can't let your premie -:- Wed, May 26, 1999 at 23:13:13 (EDT)
__________Rob -:- No fear -:- Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 00:15:48 (EDT)
____________Catweasel -:- No fear -:- Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 10:00:05 (EDT)
______________Gail -:- No fear -:- Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 11:05:45 (EDT)
________________Rob -:- No fear -:- Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 20:50:29 (EDT)
______neville -:- good hunting liz -:- Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 16:36:40 (EDT)
________Liz -:- good hunting liz -:- Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 19:04:06 (EDT)
__________Marianne -:- good hunting liz -:- Fri, May 28, 1999 at 00:20:04 (EDT)
____________Gail -:- Leave Liz Alone--Find marbles -:- Fri, May 28, 1999 at 18:36:44 (EDT)


Date: Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 07:17:39 (EDT)
From: Gail
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Gail is banned from programs
Message:
I got a call from Michael Duhaney letting me know that I would not be able to attend any of MJ's programs. If I really wanted to go, I would have to have a meeting with some people to determine if it would be okay. I reminded him that everything MJ says is out on the net within hours anyway. I concluded that the only reason I would go would be to test the OPEN DOOR POLICY that MJ boasts of.

I asked him if it was as much fun nowadays as it was in the 70s. He said the experience was the same. There you have it folks.
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Date: Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 08:34:37 (EDT)
From: RT
Email: omm
To: Gail
Subject: EV banned from Gail's home.
Message:
Elan Vital is Banned from Gail's Home.

(AP) The scattered marketing division of cult Elan Vital was banned today from sending junk mail from Gil Mc____'s home, according to the 'occupant'. 'I am so sick of their slick brochures and the slippery expensive paper they use, it reminds me of some Used Karma dealership in LA. At least the phone calls for events have stopped. Now I can concentrate on re-building my life without bulk cult mail.' she told the world wide web today.
'Talk about peace! No more P's in this home! I'm joining with the humans - of earth!'

RT

:)
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Date: Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 16:32:35 (EDT)
From: Gail
Email: None
To: RT
Subject: EV banned from Gail's home.
Message:
No kidding, RT. I got this call at 07:08, so I should have realized it was important--cult news. I thought he wanted to give me my credit card and $2. MJ never even thanked me for all the wasted years of bondage. As you say, 'All I learned was to place this thumb.'

I hope some exs go, just to flaunt the fact that he can't keep all the exs out. Instructors and security honchos could be exs. Anyone can look like a premie (Barney Google Eyes, Mad Magazine Smirk, and a slow, aimless shuffle).

Now, people have to fill in a questionnaire prior to receiving K; it asks how long they have been getting brainwashed by the videos, etc. Soon, premies will have to fill a questionnaire to go to the big FESTIVALS.

How many videos do you watch per month?

Are you able to watch the same video again and again and glean joy and greater understanding each time?

How often to you get to the community hall to see them?

How often do you practise?

How much money do you give each month?

How much money will you give today if we let you in?

If you have travelled 3 000 km or less, are you willing to sit in the video overflow room (Brighton, England).

What service are you willing to do?

Do you get blissed out when doing service or do you view it as hard work?

What is your educational background? Please identify all educational institutes (even the UNIVERSITIES-ON-LINE with the bogus degrees).

If MJ decides to use you for a project, are you self-supporting?

Have you noticed that MJ's message is always the same?

Do you notice yourself spending more and more time alone as the years roll by?

Who is MJ to you? LOTU MASTER TEACHER CHARLATAN UGH
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Date: Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 22:34:04 (EDT)
From: RT
Email: omm
To: Gail
Subject: EV banned from Gail's home.
Message:
yeah.we need M's secret email address to let him know.
good show. now laugh it off best you can.
I'm with ya.

RT
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Date: Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 10:39:59 (EDT)
From: Brian
Email: None
To: Gail
Subject: Maharaji is an asshole
Message:
I got a call from Michael Duhaney letting me know that I would not be able to attend any of MJ's programs. If I really wanted to go, I would have to have a meeting with some people to determine if it would be okay.

How pathetic. Prempal Raway is the Perfect Picture of Paranoia. And Michael Duhaney is a perfect lapdog for his master.

What do you say, premies? Is this restriction just the abuse of power invested in those who hand out the door passes? Perhaps Maharaji doesn't know about this? Yeah, that's it...

So... When's the NEXT Master coming anyway?... Think he'll be the embodiment of anything more than his-self-absorbed-self? Or her-self-absorbed-self?...
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Date: Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 12:05:03 (EDT)
From: Gail
Email: None
To: Brian
Subject: EV bans fringe premies
Message:
Scallywag PWKs who have not been involved with DLM/EV recently will be banned from local events or darshan programs unless authority figures can vouch for them. If nobody recognizes them, they will have to start from scratch. This is a good idea--they have a lot of catching up to do (alter beliefs, practise, etc.).

Two months ago, a local premie, David Menary, decided to go to the video presentation at the library. He received K back in 1978. In the last decade he has become a fringe premie--(beliefs remain in tact, but little action). I was telling him how I felt about it all now; this freaked him out, so he decided to go for a brainwashing session. He was met with suspicion: Susan Doyle did not remember him and asked him who he was. This infuriated him. After he told her, she said that he had looked familiar. This is a community of five people. If someone leaves (s)he is quickly forgotten.

Dave stopped coming regularly about eight years ago, when videos were shown in people's houses. The hostess told Dave not to return without bathing and wearing clean clothes. Granted, he had become a stinky bum; when he joined the cult, he worked and maintained an apartment. Somehow, he became dysfunctional, and WAS TOO STINKY TO HEAR THE LORD'S WORDS.

The first 5 videos released 90 or 91 were sold using the Marxist approach--from each according to ability, to each according to need. They cost me $500, Lynn $500, S.T. $300, and S.D. $200. Other gave what they could (good take from a small town, eh?). Dave had nothing to give--he quit working permanently after being in the cult for 10 years. We all made him feel guilty for not contributing toward videos. HE WAS TOO POOR AND TOO DEPRESSED TO KEEP UP WITH THE LORD'S WISHES. Somehow the magic of Maharaji's Whirled had not worked for him.

Maharaji is not really here for the weary and the weak. A PWK must SMELL LIKE DESIGNER PERFUME, HAVE A MIDDLE-CLASS STATION IN LIFE, BE FREE TO TRAVEL, AND BE WILLING TO CONTRIBUTE AND SERVE. The bongo, ne'er-do-well premies are excess baggage are tolerated when necessary. Often, they are not called about upcoming events or special, secret meetings with Ratty Ji or the like.
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Date: Sat, May 29, 1999 at 05:11:45 (EDT)
From: Sid Nigh
Email: None
To: Gail
Subject: EV bans fringe premies
Message:
You were the problem Gail ,You and your Ill advised friends
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Date: Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 11:24:28 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Gail
Subject: Take them up on it, Gail
Message:
Gail,

Take the meeting! By all means, do it. Just try not to laugh too much, that'd be impolite. I'd love to hear how that little get together went down.
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Date: Fri, May 28, 1999 at 15:50:37 (EDT)
From: Gail
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Gail's Going to the Meeting
Message:
Take the meeting! By all means, do it. Just try not to laugh too much, that'd be impolite. I'd love to hear how that little get together went down.

Maybe I'll go this summer. Who do you thnk would conduct the meeting? David Smith? Padarthanon? George Legere? How could I possibly take any of these people seriously?

Can you imagine me asking Padarthanon the following questions:

Can MJ do anything such as be in two places at the same time? Does he really show up at premies' houses?

Is he really the Supreme Being and just pretending to be a wise meditation teacher?

Do reincarnation and karma really happen to the unworthy?

What can I do to become a devotee again now that I am deprogrammed? One premie suggested that I put Pandora back in the box? How can I do this?


AN ON-LINE INTERVIEW WOULD BE QUICK AND CHEAP. ISN'T IT INCREDIBLE AND VERY AUSPICIOUS--MJ LOVES THE NET.
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Date: Fri, May 28, 1999 at 22:17:39 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Gail
Subject: Can I come too?
Message:
Gail,

I envy you. Really, I do. No one wants to meet with me much as I'm ready and waiting. If I could come along I'd like to ask if Maharaji's going to ever elaborate on:

'Today man is getting proud, but I've got something to tell him that he shouldn't be proud of. If you read the theory of Darwin carefully, it brings you to this point, that first man came in the shape of a gorilla, right? And it had many hairs all around. Then the hairs lessened, and he came into a more civilized form. But we still have hairs. That means, according to Darwin, that even we are not too civilized. Even we are not worthy to be called the highest form of life. Because, according to him, when hairs lessened man was more civilized, and we still have hairs all around our body. That means that even we are not completely civilized.'
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Date: Fri, May 28, 1999 at 23:01:47 (EDT)
From: Gail
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Can I come too?
Message:
Didn't he go on to say that people 200 years from now would consider us to be baboons. Oh, ya! There was always some insult to make you realize what a crime being born really was.
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Date: Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 11:58:38 (EDT)
From: BILL
Email: NONE
To: Gail
Subject: Gail is banned from programs
Message:
GaIL -

I don't know who the hell Michael Duhaney is nor what he does, but if he has actually refused you entry to M's coming program then his abusing his authority. I thought these are oipen events to which all are welcome. EV certainly have no qualms about holding their hands outto all for more donations for these events and maintain M's lavish and expensive life style.

It is almost difficult to believe.
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Date: Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 12:15:32 (EDT)
From: Gail
Email: None
To: BILL
Subject: Michael Duhaney is an old-time
Message:
ashram premie. He moved to London two years ago from Toronto. He is very devoted although his attendance video events is poor. He does security at all the programs he attends (stays outside while the Lard speaks). Since he knows me, I guess the honchos phone him to relay messages. He still owes me a credit card and $2, so I thought that was why he was calling every day for about two weeks. As it turns out, he is being considerate. He wouldn't want me wasting my time and money to go to Miami or Montreal since I am banned.

I did put a bug in his ear. I asked him if he realized that lots of the people who post here still attend videos and events. Just because they are not saying who they are, does this mean they pose less of a threat to the Cult.

WHY DOES MJ NEED PROTECTING; HE'S THE LORD OF THE UNIVERSE. HE SHOULD BE ABLE TO TURN US GRAINS OF SAND AROUND WITH THE SNAP OF HIS FINGERS. I am being used as a deterrance. Anyone who questions MJ or his current desires will be banned. WE ALL KNOW WHAT THAT MEANS! I have a one-way ticket to hell. I shall burn for an eternity. WHAT COMPASSION! WHAT HUMILITY! WHAT A DIVINE LOVE THIS IS! :-}
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Date: Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 12:19:43 (EDT)
From: Gail
Email: None
To: Catweasel
Subject: Catweasel, please let me in!
Message:
I'll be wearing a bag over my head. Just teasing. You know I wouldn't create a disturbance at a program. Everything is posted on one site or the other within hours. What's the big deal. Like I said, I am being punished for speaking my mind and every doubt I've ever had about it all. THERE IS NO GOING BACK, unless I get plastic surgery. Do you think god would be fooled by a new, pretty face.
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Date: Sat, May 29, 1999 at 05:07:12 (EDT)
From: Catweasel
Email: None
To: Gail
Subject: Catweasel, please let me in!
Message:
Your bullshitting Gail!But if your for real, leave your address and I might be able to help you. E.mail address?
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Date: Sat, May 29, 1999 at 07:47:02 (EDT)
From: Gail
Email: freedom@gtn.net
To: Catweasel
Subject: Catweasel, please let me in!
Message:
No, I'm not!
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Date: Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 13:26:07 (EDT)
From: Blue Bird
Email: None
To: Gail
Subject: Michael Duhaney is thief
Message:
Gail,

You can call your credit card company and report Michael Duhaney for Credit theft.

BB
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Date: Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 15:32:31 (EDT)
From: Gail
Email: None
To: Blue Bird
Subject: Michael Duhaney has paid debt
Message:
I lent him that card two years ago to go to Amaroo. He has paid everything off except $2. I know I will get this plus the card.
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Date: Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 21:54:06 (EDT)
From: Clarification
Email: None
To: BILL
Subject: Who is welcome?
Message:
I thought these are oipen events to which all are welcome.

Events are by invitation. Elan Vital has the right therefore to refuse admission to people who they feel, for whatever reason, they don't want to be there. Look at it like a house party. If there's someone who you do not want to be at your party you have every right to ask them to leave.
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Date: Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 22:00:08 (EDT)
From: Absentte Owner
Email: None
To: Clarification
Subject: Who is welcome?
Message:
Hi Clarification,

If I paid for the house, and have retained the documentation, then I claim the right to go to my house.

HA HA HA HA HA.... I've been invited to a downlink;-)

'ABSENTEE OWNER'
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Date: Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 22:35:10 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Clarification
Subject: Don't forget
Message:
These tears are not because I am remembering my Father, but because I am feeling so much power in me. They are tears of strength. I have come so powerful. I have come for the world. Whenver the great come, the worldly oppose them. Again I have come and you are not listening. Every ear should hear that the saviour of humanity has come. There should be no chance for anyone to say that they haven't heard of Guru Maharaj Ji. Those who have come to me are already saved. Now its your duty to save others. Shout it on the streets. Why be shy? Give me your love and I will give you peace. Come to me and I will relieve you of your suffering. I am the source of peace in this world. All I ask of you is your love. All I ask of you is your trust. And what I can give you is such peace as will never die. I declare I will establish peace in this world. But what can I do unless men come to me with love in their heart and a keen wish to know peace and Truth?

Who'd have thought this grandiose quixotic mission would turn into such a bunch of sappy weenies?

My grandmother, that's who.
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Date: Fri, May 28, 1999 at 14:09:02 (EDT)
From: JW
Email: None
To: Clarification
Subject: Who is welcome?
Message:
Yeah, Maharaji probably can exclude anyone he wants to from his little house party. That isn't the issue. The issue is the extreme hypocrisy in doing so. It makes a lie out of his 'open door' policy concerning laggard premies or anyone else. It also demonstrates the paranoia of he and his organization and it's fear of dealing with dissent in any form.
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Date: Fri, May 28, 1999 at 15:02:53 (EDT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: Who is welcome?
Message:
JW: It reminds me of a scene from Holy Grail...... run-away, run-away!!!! Jeez, M is a chicken, isn't he?

You know, you would think that the premies would make the connection that the reason there are more video events and fewer 'live' events is because M is lazy, too. He doesn't even want to bother with leaving the TV-zone, anymore. This, plus the fact that he can't handle even the slighest dissention from, or confrontation with, people that don't agree makes him about the weakest excuse for a human that I've ever had the displeasure to meet. Where's that 'infinite strength' that the almighty is supposed to possess? Where are those 64(?) powers?
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Date: Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 12:47:25 (EDT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Gail
Subject: The door is closed?
Message:
Hi Gail,
This is truly weird. I read your message, and the other one you posted about 'fringe premies' below, and didn't know what to think. Are these programs supposed to be 'public' programs? Or is Maharaji not doing 'public' programs anymore? Someone please enlighten me.

I would really like to go to a program sometime, just to see what it's like now, and see how things have changed. I have not seen Maharaji in person since March of 1977, although I have watched a bunch of videos. I would not create a disturbance, or pass out 'ex-premie.org' cards, or whatever. However, it sounds like you have to 'know' someone to get into a program - someone who can say that you've been to X number of videos recently or whatever. Is this true? Can anyone answer this question? I don't know any premies in positions of authority to ask.

Thanks,
Katie
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Date: Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 13:19:47 (EDT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: No surprise for me
Message:
I've been involved enough to understand that this was a very easy step for EV to take.

We've been to the verge of doing this for years (when I was a member of EV's board in France, specially in France because of the cult watch organizations and fear for press), and I clearly remember of some programs where we (instructors & ex-instructors) 'screened' the people coming in.

They're doing it now, no surprise. In case you don't know, securit... oops, 'special ushers' are in control now. I could also see it coming, back in 96 and 97, and I didn't like that. I guess this was also one of the last 'drips'.

What's good in all this, I guess, is that lots of premies (some I definitely know) won't like it at all. I just hope it's going to open some eyes. And also it means that the cult is going more and more underground, in spite of everything m said reg 'propagation'. Who'll dare invite any friend in such an atmosphere?

That also means that less and less new people will come, and for those who come, I guess this will look even worse and dull than it looked before.
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Date: Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 15:37:16 (EDT)
From: Gail
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: The door is closed?
Message:
MJ only wants to do aspirant programs. The last public one he did was in NYC in June, 1997. He wants people to be prepared for him.

If you went to a program now, I doubt that they would just let you in. Of course, someone is bound to remember you from the old days. If they don't make the connexion that you are the webmaster, you're in. You could go to one of their satellite links, but someone would need to know you.

If you got there a day early, maybe someone could grill you ahead of time. What a joke.
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Date: Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 20:16:54 (EDT)
From: CD
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: The door is closed?
Message:
>I would really like to go to a program sometime, just to see what it's like now, and see how things have changed.

If you are curious. Just go. I will be suprised if you have any hassle.

>However, it sounds like you have to 'know' someone to get into a program - someone who can say that you've been to X number of videos recently or whatever. Is this true?

No.

CD
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Date: Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 20:32:24 (EDT)
From: Katie
Email: mishkat@gateway.net
To: CD
Subject: The door is closed?
Message:
Hi CD -
I was thinking about going to a program with YOU, actually (I'm not kidding, but I'm not sure if you would want to go with ME!). I figured you could vouch for me, plus I think it would be fun to meet you. So, do you know if there are going to be any programs on the West Coast this year?

Take care,
Katie
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Date: Fri, May 28, 1999 at 01:30:01 (EDT)
From: CD
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: The door is closed?
Message:
>I was thinking about going to a program with YOU, actually (I'm not kidding, but I'm not sure if you would want to go with ME!)

Not a problem.
I doubt you need anybody to 'vouch for you' but I would do it.

>So, do you know if there are going to be any programs on the West Coast this year?

I haven't heard about any. Could be one later.

CD
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Date: Fri, May 28, 1999 at 11:57:11 (EDT)
From: Katie
Email: mishkat@gateway. net
To: CD
Subject: Thank you, Chris
Message:
Hey Chris,
I really appreciate it. Let me know if you hear about anything on the West Coast, because I think it would be interesting to go. But I don't want to travel a long way and not get in, if you know what I mean.

BTW, I still think it's weird that they said that they won't let Gail into either the Montreal or Miami programs. It seems natural to me that she would want to go to a program again to see how she felt about everything. (AND she's a nice person.)

Take care,
Katie
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Date: Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 13:12:24 (EDT)
From: JW
Email: None
To: Gail
Subject: Gail is banned from programs
Message:
Gail, did this 'Michael Duhaney' just call you up out of the blue to tell you this? Why would he be calling you to tell you you couldn't go to a program? Is it because he read on the internet that you were considering going to one of them?

How very weird, especially because the fraudulent lord of the videos has some kind of statement on his website about long-lost premies returning to the fold and how welcome they are. What a liar. How can he be welcoming of people coming back to his cult if they aren't allowed into one of his programs? Why do the premies let him get away with such blatant hypocrisy?

Gail, I suggest you send an e-mail to BM himself through that cold, cold website of his, asking him if what 'Michael Duhaney'
told you is his policy. I would post it here as well. I doubt you will get a response, despite the fact that being his devotee for 25 years it's the least he can do, but at least premies won't be able to just blame this policy on the premies and say that he doesn't know about it. He will know about it because you told him.
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Date: Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 14:33:47 (EDT)
From: Blue Bird
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: Gail is banned from programs
Message:
JW

How very weird, especially because the fraudulent lord of the videos has some kind of statement on his website about long-lost premies returning to the fold and how welcome they are. What a liar.

Just a decoy statement to gain empathy from his practicing gratituders. Somewhat like the role Rob has been assigned here prior to the feeds to promote a 'kinder, mellower' image of a PAM on the X site.

bb
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Date: Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 14:50:56 (EDT)
From: JW
Email: None
To: Blue Bird
Subject: Gail is banned from programs
Message:
Yeah, I think it's interesting hearing from these supposed 'premies' who don't know any other premies and never talk to them, don't give any money and never have, don't go to video events, never paid any attention to Maharaji's claims to be god and his multitudes of contradictions since then, who never believed any of the Hindu 'hype' and who are just normal, average nice people who believe in M for what they like and ignore all the rest. They aren't bothered by anything M has ever done, and don't think he has ever made a mistake and if he has, it either wasn't his fault, or they don't care. I find those statements very convenient, highly revisionist and very disingenuous. Basically, it's PR lies.
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Date: Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 20:19:30 (EDT)
From: CD
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: Gail is banned from programs
Message:
Gail calls the local place where M videos are held trying to get them stopped. Then she says she wants to go to a program.
Do you see a contradiction?
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Date: Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 20:58:10 (EDT)
From: JW
Email: None
To: CD
Subject: Gail is banned from programs
Message:
Remember when Maharaji said he had 'never lost a premie?' Remember when he said the perfect master would go to the ends of the earth to bring back one of his devotees? Remember the story of the prodigal son?

Why would M ever ban ANYONE from one of his programs unless they were some kind of a threat? Do you think Gail is a threat or would be disruptive? Give me a break.

They are banning Gail because she is likely to speak publicly about what goes on in one of those 'premie-only' programs. That's why. He has a lot to hide. It's clear as day. I'm sure I would be banned too, even though I have never done anything to M or his organization excempt to express my opinions about them. This is because I can't be trusted to keep my mouth shut. It's more in an attempt to lay low, avoid discussion, avoid criticism, be closed, be underground, and avoid the light of day. Paranoia run rampant.
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Date: Fri, May 28, 1999 at 05:16:27 (EDT)
From: Catweasel
Email: X-FILES?
To: JW
Subject: Gail is banned from programs
Message:
What goes on Jw,NOT a video?Not a telecast?Not aguest SPEAKER?
WOW THATS TOTALLY ........normal?
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Date: Fri, May 28, 1999 at 13:58:30 (EDT)
From: JW
Email: None
To: Catweasel
Subject: What the Hell.....
Message:
What goes on Jw,NOT a video?Not a telecast?Not aguest SPEAKER?
WOW THATS TOTALLY ........normal?


...are you talking about? What goes on where?
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Date: Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 21:00:03 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: CD
Subject: Yeah, Chris, you're right
Message:
Gail calls the local place where M videos are held trying to get them stopped. Then she says she wants to go to a program.
Do you see a contradiction?


Chris,

You have a point there. Gail has definitely earned her 'persona non grata' status. But what about someone like, say, Mike. Mike's only discussed Maharaji here on the site. I don't think he's tried to shut down local programs or anything. What would happen with him? I guess he'd be interviewed a bit or something when he showed up, right? Say he tells them that he's no longer a premie and, in fact, is a regular contributer and reader on the ex site. Would they let him in?

Honestly, Chris. Would they?
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Date: Fri, May 28, 1999 at 17:14:40 (EDT)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: CD
Subject: Gail is banned from programs
Message:
CD are you aware that we live in a free country? Reporters, journalists etc are allowed to go to stuff even if they are ethically opposed. I can see my governor give a speech even if I have spoken out against him in a public forum. What is wrong with what Gail wants to do?
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Date: Sun, May 30, 1999 at 01:26:08 (EDT)
From: CD
Email: None
To: Helen
Subject: Gail is banned from programs
Message:
>What is wrong with what Gail wants to do?

I don't know.
What does she want to do at a program anyway?
I would have to meet her to know what she is really like.
Apparently the people who have spoken to her know her.
She has bragged about calling to get local events banned.
I'm not mad at Gail.
It is best to stop at a triffic light that is red, but ...
Its all pretty hypothetical here in cyberspace.
No absolutes even in the world of logic if it is taken to the extreme.
Gail might only be banned for this lifetime.

CD
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Date: Sun, May 30, 1999 at 09:02:06 (EDT)
From: Gail
Email: None
To: CD
Subject: No open-door policy, CD
Message:
Thanks, CD. I'l be sure to check out cult life in my next incarnation. As previously stated, I told the library who they were really hosting--Guru Maharaj Ji/Maharaj Ji/ Maharaji/DLM/ELAN VITAL. Foolishly, I have revealed my identity; I did it to prevent backsliding. Anonymous exs will still be able to infiltrate the fold.

I don't think MJ will be making future references to an open-door policy. Do you? How much would you like to bet on this: By next year, the idea of an open door will be erased from all premie minds. Can't you just hear it, 'Maharaji never said there was an open-door policy. Those exs are such liars.'
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Date: Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 21:57:27 (EDT)
From: Nil
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: Gail is banned from programs
Message:
[Maharaji]...has some kind of statement on his website about long-lost premies returning to the fold and how welcome they are. What a liar.

So is Gail wanting to 'return to the fold'? If so she's hiding it very well.
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Date: Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 22:01:54 (EDT)
From: Absentee Owner
Email: None
To: Gail
Subject: Careful of folds
Message:
Gail,

Stay away from any of Maharaji's folds. It's where he gathers his smegma each evening for distribution to the elite;-)
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Date: Fri, May 28, 1999 at 16:06:51 (EDT)
From: Don
Email: None
To: Nil
Subject: Gail is banned from programs
Message:
Who knows? Maharaji is all-powerful right? Well, he USED to be all-powerful but isn't anymore, but he still might just inspire her to return. Nil, you just ignore M's hypocrisy by banning people who don't fit some premie mold. She dedicated 25 years to the little creep. Banning her, or anyone else, is really hypocritical.

I mean, come on. Even the Catholic Church closes its doors to no one. You can criticize and lambast it to your heart's content and the doors will still be opened to you. But Maharaji? He's much to paranoid to be that open, despite his apparent disingenuous statements about 'love' and the rest.
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Date: Fri, May 28, 1999 at 17:19:47 (EDT)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Nil
Subject: Gail is banned from programs
Message:
So you're only allowed to hear M speak if you're in the fold? Would Gail's presence there hurt the oneness vibe? People who disagree can't sit next to one another at an event?
Nil, Gail is being PUNISHED for leaving the fold & being outspoken about M. Do you think she should kiss some butt in order to be allowed to see his highness? You have got to be joking.
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Date: Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 13:21:05 (EDT)
From: Blue Bird
Email: None
To: Gail
Subject: Who are the Gestapo?
Message:
Hi Gail,

Actually, this is probably quite an honor for you. I would advise against meeting with 'certain' individuals to upgrade your E/V status. You know in some third world countries where Rawat and his loyal minions meet they still cut out womans tongues. I see no reason for Rawat to break precedent! Hey, I wonder if Marolyn still has hers? Anybody know? In your case they'd probably have a Visions International swan decorated, compassion logo'ed $29.95 slicer and dicer they'd take your fingers off with. On the bright side your wounds would probably be bound with a free enjoyinglife.org tee shirt.

Following is my advice:

What I'd do is go and purchase a powerful degauser or super magnet. Go to one of the video sites, check around for the 'hotel's or library's' outside junction for cable feeds and place that magnet or degauser right on the live feed wire! (I think I just upped the security numbers armed Visions International Slicer Dicers for the Lard's event.)

HA HA HA HA the premies would probably still sit through a house of horrors mirror like Rawat all distorted and warbly.

Luv,
Blue Bird
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Date: Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 13:33:41 (EDT)
From: Rahab
Email: None
To: Blue Bird
Subject: Who are the Gestapo?
Message:
Blue Bird,

Pretty good advice. I'd go a step further and let some of the quasi-professional, low ping, firewall bustin kids on the net know of the feeds origin and sattellite system chosen.

They'll wreak their merry havoc from there! I must call my brother who programs satellites for a living. Every type of 'program' has a back door in! Will report back.

R
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Date: Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 14:55:14 (EDT)
From: gregg
Email: None
To: Rahab
Subject: last year in Denver...
Message:
Last year in Denver I went to one on them new-fangled programs in Denver to see the Boy speak, after fifteen years or so of abstinence. Hot damn was it boring!

First I went to the admission committee. Told 'em I couldn't remember my initiator's name...some indian woman...they let me in anyway...I guess my inability to remember someone's name was probably a sign that I was sufficiently mush-minded to be a practicing premie.

Then i sat in the back in a convention center chair -- and tried, believe it or not, to keep an open mind. But then Maharaj Ji started speaking. It was the same old crap, of course. and all I could think was: 'Jesus Christ, what was I thinking all those years back?! What a pathetically inept speaker this guy is. No message, no public speaking skills, and I'm trying to catch a vibe, really, but...there's nothing here!'

I keep up with some of the loonier gurus/cults...John-Roger, the late Frederick Lenz, the late L. ron Hubbard, Moon, and all those wacky radio evangelists....but this ex-boy guru is the blandest nothingest excuse for a cult leader...I don't know how he keeps his cult together. He ought to start prophesizing about spaceships or something befor his cult fizzles out completely.
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Date: Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 15:14:22 (EDT)
From: Blue Bird
Email: None
To: gregg
Subject: last year in Denver...
Message:
Hello Gregg,

The Boy-Toy Guru is nothing more than a trinkets sales man.

I've heard he's adding a line of toupees to visionsinternational trinket site. A special blessing to his friend Mr Clean.

BB
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Date: Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 16:59:27 (EDT)
From: report
Email: None
To: thread
Subject: small town videos
Message:
The in home video night here finds lingering premies afterwardson checking out the sites on the computer with coffee in hand.

Including this one.

There is alot of conversation going on about it all.
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Date: Fri, May 28, 1999 at 17:24:15 (EDT)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: report
Subject: small town videos
Message:
Tell us more, report. Premies are talking about what's happening ont he internet? Discussing, etc? What kinds of conversations ensue? Tell all...
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Date: Fri, May 28, 1999 at 22:45:37 (EDT)
From: report
Email: None
To: Helen
Subject: small town videos
Message:
That would blow my cover.
Be assured that premies here are daring to THINK about it all and discuss. Doubt is always part of the discussions.
It changes week by week.
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Date: Fri, May 28, 1999 at 22:49:23 (EDT)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: report
Subject: small town videos
Message:
Report: Thanks for this information. I have tried to generate a thread about past historical events so that premies can be educated about them. Do you think that sort of information helps to generate debate?
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Date: Sat, May 29, 1999 at 01:09:03 (EDT)
From: report
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: small town videos
Message:
Dear Marianne

It helps to have a current thread documenting the past events and the psycological effects. These video night people ususally do not go into the archives as a group. They regard the forum as a soap opera that they watch communally.
The women especially seem to be most affected by the discriptions of relationship problems and also how it can cut into family life. They sympathise and talk about it for days. When the word co depandant comes up its like an electric shock. THAT is something they know about.
They relate to the impact on communications too.
What is good is that socialising seems to revolve around the forum themes.
It is challenging their brainwashing. They would never participate
but are affected by the forum nevertheless.
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Date: Sat, May 29, 1999 at 09:04:16 (EDT)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: report
Subject: small town videos
Message:
This is fascinating, report. To see that our forum is like 'Melrose Place' for premies. I had no idea. If I were a practicing premie I would be fascinated with the forum too, because of the cast of characters, the outrageousness, the discussion. But I would run back & forth between the forum and the shelter of M's grace, and it would make me nuts. (I was a premie in the 70's so M's grace was fashionable back then).

I wonder how they can peek in on the forum and not have the content here torture their conscience. Maybe 'torture' is too strong a word. 'Bother' is more like it. I don't know how they can read here without it bothering their sense of ordered thought, causing cognitive dissonance.

But maybe I underestimate the sophistication of today's premies. Maybe there are a lot of them that can see M's flaws and the co-dependent/relationships traps of premies, and still see some value from the trip as well? They can live with the uncertainty of it all.

I think a lot depends on one's identity and how tied into the premie community one is. I had to move half way across the country to break away. ANyway, thanks for the reports, report, and welcome to the forum.
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Date: Sat, May 29, 1999 at 17:28:28 (EDT)
From: report
Email: None
To: Helen
Subject: small town videos
Message:
Sorry if I gave you the impression that the forum is not making the premies think.

ALL of the discussions are a means to sort out their feelings about the contradictions.
You are right about them being insulated from criticism. Thats why its so healthy when they read the forum as a group. It prompts discussion. A peer can more easily detect a cop out.

Some times they just show up for the coffee and forum!!
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Date: Sat, May 29, 1999 at 22:15:36 (EDT)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: report
Subject: small town videos
Message:
If you can tell us, when are the videos shown in your area? I love the idea that people show up just for coffee and the forum! In my day, wayyyyyyyy before computers existed, such talk would have been heresy.
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Date: Sat, May 29, 1999 at 22:28:01 (EDT)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: report
Subject: This is good news
Message:
Hi Report,
Well...of course I think that is WONDERFUL. And of course I am biased. We premies WERE insulated from criticism...the whole trip is a data vacuum. Most corporations when faced with criticism address it head on....but not M, he doesn't feel he has to lower himself to deal with our petty problems and issues. He would never publicly address the allegations against Jagdeo, or other questionable issues around himself or his PAMS. M doesn't return e-mails and letters either.

So what are premies with questions to do? That's why this website is so powerful, I had not been active as a premie for 14-15 years and I still didn't know the real deal until I found the forum. Hanging around here put all the pieces together for me. It's been quite an education!

I hope that those premies who are lurking and discussing & who want to connect with someone by email would feel comfortable e-mailing the webmaster and getting connected with some folks here. It really is helpful.

Again, thank you for sharing this info about premies reading the forum in groups and discussing. That makes my day...week...month...makes me think maybe I'm not wasting my time posting here. HI PREMIES OUT THERE IN LURKING LAND!! CONGRATULATIONS TO YOU FOR EATING FROM THE FORBIDDEN FRUIT! YOU WON'T GO TO HELL!! HA HA, just a little humor there.
Love
Helen
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Date: Sat, May 29, 1999 at 22:49:32 (EDT)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: Helen
Subject: This is good news
Message:
Hey there Helen. How are you doing? I love these posts from report. I want to figure out a way to ensure that there are helpful posts happening when s/he's having video night.

Thanks for telling me I'm not going to hell. I've been wondering about it for the last 2 decades since I left the cult. How did you find out? snicker, snicker...
Love, Marianne
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Date: Sun, May 30, 1999 at 08:54:19 (EDT)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: This is good news
Message:
Hi Marianne, I'm doing great. I'm glad to hear there are so many lurkers hanging out on our forum. I agree it would be nice if there were helpful stuff instead of embarrassing bongo eruptions. Oh well.

As per hell: Every religion has its own version of hellfire and damnation doesn't it? In M's case, threats of rotten vegetables and being reincarnated as a duck were always looming around.
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Date: Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 19:59:29 (EDT)
From: Don
Email: None
To: gregg
Subject: last year in Denver...
Message:
I also went to a program or 'event' as they called it, a few years ago and I had much the same reaction. It was not only BORING, M had NOTHING to say, except to repeat the same crap over and over and over. I think the only way the premies get through it is just not to listen. They just kind of float through it all, because if you really listen to what he is saying, there isn't anything there and you feel like an idiot sitting there subjecting yourself to such drivel. It really amazed me that in all these years of pontificating in front of people, the guy has never learned to speak coherently. It was incredibly fragmented and disjointed. And did I say REPETITIVE? VERY repetitive.

It was kind of funny but also disturbing, because this was an 'introductory program' and there was an obvious attempt to portray M as something other than the way he used to present himself (god), but the premies in the audience betrayed that attempt by reacting to every twitch of his face with goofy adulation, and sitting like grinning idiots. It was creepy -- vacuous and creepy. I can't imagine anyone who wasn't already throughly programmed not being weirded out by the whole scene.

At the door you had to get a 'ticket' and the guy there asked me if I had received knowledge. When I said I had, he immediately asked for money (a 'donation.') I said I had to ask my wife first and then slipped away. Maharaji had already gotten enough of my money, thank you very much. It also freaked me out because I saw 'premies' I knew from 10 years ago standing around yacking. They looked the same, just with gray hair, pot bellies and a kind of bewildered look on most of their faces. It really felt like a weird club that these people belonged to. There was no welcoming vibe for interested people whatsoever.

I walked out of that program relieved I had split when I did.
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Date: Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 20:07:20 (EDT)
From: Don
Email: None
To: Don
Subject: And Also...
Message:
There was a 'video' of clouds with M murmering in the background some kind of sickening 'poetry.' Fortunately, much of it was inaudible. The 'new people' just looked confused, but the premies acted like they had just witnessed an example of the greatest piece of art ever created. I couldn't believe it.

Also, a woman appeared on the stage prior to M himself and spoke about 'the beautiful experience' in the most deadpan monotone you could imagine. Far from looking happy, she appeared to be racked with pain. I felt like I should be calling 911 to get help for the poor woman.
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Date: Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 20:34:41 (EDT)
From: cp
Email: None
To: Don
Subject: And Also...
Message:
I love your'goofy adulation'
Thats what I couldnt figure out.
The new look just didn't jive with the stupid staring grins and fawning.
Then there were the ones who had been around for a while dispersed through the audience. Some of these women acted especially severe, probably to offset the ooozy behavior of the untrained.

If one was to study the audience to gauge how things were going with propagation, it was a crazy mix.

cp
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Date: Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 20:41:37 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Don
Subject: Hey Don and Gregg!
Message:
Nice to hear from you guys. Gregg, you've been here before, I think and Don, are you a first time caller?

Just wanted to say 'hi'. That's all.
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Date: Fri, May 28, 1999 at 10:15:33 (EDT)
From: dv
Email: None
To: Rahab
Subject: The feed is from Echostar-
Message:
also kjnown as the Dish Network.
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Date: Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 17:20:02 (EDT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Gail
Subject: I'll try in France
Message:
to access the program, IF he comes!

Just for the fun of it. I know these guys inside out, and I'd love to have a conversation with them.

I'll promise I'll sit quietly near an entrance, in case I throw up, or if they want to throw me out.

I'm curious!
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Date: Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 17:35:56 (EDT)
From: Gail
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: I'll try in France
Message:
Good luck! Wear a trenchcoat (just kidding) and a bag over your head. The French are more liberal, so you may have better luck than I. Your former friends will not want to deprive you of that bliss, that joy, that excitement, that .......................... ....................................................... that!!!!
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Date: Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 22:09:40 (EDT)
From: Nil
Email: None
To: Gail
Subject: Gail is banned from programs
Message:
So Gail, just between you, me and the cyber fence-post... Apart from the obvious 'oh woe is me I'm a distressed victim' image you are trying to milk here, do you really want to go to an event? If you do then why would you, given the appearent born-again status of your departure? What would you hope to get out of it?
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Date: Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 23:28:15 (EDT)
From: Gail
Email: None
To: Nil
Subject: Nil, let me play the fool
Message:
You said: 'Apart from the obvious 'oh woe is me I'm a distressed victim' image you are trying to milk here'

I am a victim, but I'm not trying to milk anything. Most exs have had similar, or worse, experiences when they left. I'm just comparing notes because it helps. Simply, I interpreted MJ literally for a long time. I absorbed his every word because he was the Superior Power in Person to me. Obviously, I was green to have misled myself like that, but I did.

I began to think that every moment was a cosmic gift from the Lord. A song, a passing word, or a kind gesture were all lessons or messages from the Lord. I believed in fairy tales. I heard he could be in two places at the same time; I imagined him showing up at my door with the carton of milk (running into him on the highway in the blue Honda reinforced this insanity). MJ could do anything he wanted including manifesting in my living room during the Simpsons. He was my Guru Maharaj Ji and anything and everything was possible. Happiness was a gift from MJ. Sorrow was my own doing. What a fantasy! I'm making a fool of myself here in case some other reader is labouring under these delusions.
I became self-absorbed and disengaged from regular stuff and people outside of the group. Now, I find myself at a loss. I would be saying the same things if I were held hostage in a POW camp. I wasn't held against my will (except for the locked gates in Rome, 1977), but I was compelled to do what the Lord wanted. Do you understand this? If you were to end your involvement with MJ, you would experience the same dilemma.

Q. Do you really want to go to an event?

Why not? I love the COLLECTIVE HIGH. I used to laugh or cry at everything he said. I'd probably enjoy the show more now that I don't have to take it seriously. It was my whole world from August, 1974 until last June 11, 1998, so why wouldn't it be ok?

Q. What would you hope to get out of it?

I would get the satisfaction of knowing that MJ said one truth-- 'The door is always open.' Hopefully, I would get a few laughs, and the 'HIGH.' Other than that, nothing. Aren't we told to come empty and expect nothing. Think! What are aspirants told. K will not fix your life or your problems. K will not give you anything. What are your ulterior motives when you go, Nil?

Q. Why did you report EV to the London library?

I wouldn't have if the room had been rented honestly. It was the secrecy and skulking around for years that bothered me the most:

Misrepresenting the name and nature of the group;
Misrepresenting MJ (He's really the Lord, but it's a secret);
Misrepresenting K;
Misrepresenting the involvement as a light hobby;
Misrepresenting the past;
General cheat and deceit.
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Date: Fri, May 28, 1999 at 17:39:47 (EDT)
From: Mary M
Email: None
To: Nil
Subject: Sometimes
Message:
Hi Nil,

There are certain situations in which a persons therapist may recommend going back to the scene of an 'incident/s' that might have caused emotional turmoil in said persons life.

You might consider it a healthy step in the healing process for an ex-premie to go to a program and see for themselves that the hold is broken.

However, if an individual has made threats against M or his family I'm sure their therapist would recommend staying away. I don't think anyone here wants M or his family to be physically harmed in any manner at all.

There's been enough hurt.

Just some thoughts,
Mary M
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Date: Fri, May 28, 1999 at 06:20:08 (EDT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: Gail
Subject: The parable of the lost sheep
Message:
Maharaji's style. And behold, there was a shepherd who was tending his flock of sheep in the wilderness and it came to pass that one night, many of his sheep went astray and became lost in the mountains and were in danger of being eaten by wolves.

And the shepherd picked up his crook and walked through the wildeness and sayeth - what the fuck does it matter if I've lost my sheep, I can always get some more.
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Date: Fri, May 28, 1999 at 12:48:28 (EDT)
From: Bad-Ass Dude
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: The parable of the lost sheep
Message:
Though I walk through the valley in the shadow of death I shall fear no evil.

Because I'm the meanest motherfucker in the valley.
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Date: Fri, May 28, 1999 at 17:29:39 (EDT)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Bad-Ass Dude
Subject: The parable of the lost sheep
Message:
And thus sayeth the Shepherd: 'Don't let the door hit you on the butt on the way out!'
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Date: Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 04:12:33 (EDT)
From: Peter Brach
Email: phb4peace
To: Everyone
Subject: Try to heal, but keep truckin!
Message:
Hi everyone,

I never experienced regretting my time

practicing knowledge. I had mega doubts

long before, during and after recieving

knowledge. But I still love some of what

he said, because it's true even if he

isn't! Nobody who pursued God and gave

their heart, even in deception wasted

time. Even if it takes the rest of

your life, take your good karma on

your back and continue the vital search.

There are true masters (Yogananda, Vivekenanda,

etc). Paraphrasing what Krishna said in the Gita

'Even if the Guru is false, the disciple is

judged on their own merit.' Please don't

give up the vital search!!!
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Date: Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 07:13:09 (EDT)
From: Gail
Email: None
To: Peter Brach
Subject: Try to heal, but keep truckin!
Message:
I've done all the spiritual searching I intend to do.
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Date: Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 12:31:17 (EDT)
From: Bobby
Email: None
To: Gail
Subject: Try to heal, but keep truckin!
Message:
Dear Gail,

Although I've continued to practice meditation since receiving knowledge in 1971, I probably didn't put nearly the effort, time and resources you did into the Maharaj trip as a 'spiritual path'. I stopped going to Maharaji programs in the early '80's, pretty much around the same time that premies were no longer allowed to 'give satsang'.

I've long been fascinated by the near-endless forms of 'spirituality' and 'higher awareness'. Even while a premie, I was very interested in what the various groups were doing and checked a lot of them out to various extents. In the end I've had to sort it all out for myself and come to my own definitions. A big part of this has included having to depend on my own perceptions and intuitions, as well as the statements and feedback of others.

IJWTS that I sympathize with your situation and can appreciate your anger. I also very much appreciate your sincerity and authenticity. It seems to me that sincerity and authenticity are big parts of what I call 'the path' are all about. I don't see much difference between spirituality and being human. Being human I think it has a lot to do with we see things and how we treat others, ourselves and the situations around us.

Love,

Bobby
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Date: Fri, May 28, 1999 at 10:35:33 (EDT)
From: Mary M
Email: None
To: Bobby
Subject: Try to heal, but keep truckin!
Message:
Hi Bobby,

Glad to see you back.

Much Love to You,
Mary M
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Date: Sat, May 29, 1999 at 18:18:08 (EDT)
From: Bobby
Email: None
To: Mary M
Subject: Try to heal, but keep truckin!
Message:
Hey Mary!

Your gifts continue to be much appreciated. That oil you sent is high-quality. The skin on the areas of my of my neck and head that were radiated have suffered little damage and I owe this a lot to the oil and other healing modalities I used.

I also very much appreciate your efforts in support of the homeless and abused. Do you happen to live near Ft. Lauderdale? I have good friends who help run a drop-in center down there in support of those who have been through the mental-health system. I visited when I was in Florida over Christmas Holidays.

Here's their URL:
The PEER Center

Love,

Bobby
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Date: Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 12:03:07 (EDT)
From: Bobby
Email: None
To: Peter Brach
Subject: Try to heal, but keep truckin!
Message:
Hi everybody,

To me spirituality is a context. I have my own spirituality and it is through this particular lens that I gain much inspiration, motivation and meaning. I also use other context, other 'lens' through which to view the universe. Among other contexts I use reason, intuition and feeling.

My time with Knowledge was a significant part of my life and I have no regrets for my involvement. Ostensibly, Knowledge was portrayed, (at least during the '70's) as a spiritual path. Personally, it was a lot more than that to me. I did a lot of emotional and other sorts processing during that time. I was always a kind of outsider or rebel even while in the ashram. I could never quite relate to those who were more able to be 100% premies.

Lately I've been through a whole process with cancer. The medical treatments are over. I'm through the worst of it and am now moving into a new healing my body phase. In a spiritual context, and in other contexts as well, such as emotional, this cancer represented very, very powerful teachings and completions for me. In special ways, I have a whole new life ahead of me. Of course, I wouldn't recommend such a path to others :P

Years ago I wrote in a journal I was keeping a quote from Yogananda. 'Even the abortive attempt on this path is never wasted.' My whole life is part of this path.
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Date: Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 17:06:23 (EDT)
From: Anne
Email: None
To: Bobby
Subject: Try to heal, but keep truckin!
Message:
Bobby you are very brave. You have 'trucked' a long way with cancer in your truck yet I hear from your letter you never allowed it to become your backseat driver. You have taken responsibility for your health and gone though whatever horrible treatments they gave you and kept your love of life alive.

I also believed that I had no regrets about my involment with mj&k, that it was a part of youth that dragged on for a bit,that I got out with money still in my pocket and love in my heart.

Reading this site and in talking with Gail and another ex, I realized that my life would have been very different, had I never become involved. I most regret not seeing much earlier that there was a cancer left on my soul from my involvement. Just as a dear friend of mine, who is presently fighting with lymphoma, it was slow growing. mj was my undetected spiritual backseat cancer still influencing me 15 years after the fact!

I see very little difference between a cancer of the body and the dis-ease that mj helped to reinforce in me. I hope you the best success in your recovery and hope that Gail also will boot mj out of her backseat.
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Date: Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 18:28:57 (EDT)
From: Gail
Email: None
To: Bobby
Subject: Try to heal, but keep truckin!
Message:
I am glad that you are healing.
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Date: Fri, May 28, 1999 at 12:21:38 (EDT)
From: Katie
Email: mishkat@gateway.net
To: Bobby
Subject: Try to heal, but keep truckin!
Message:
Hi Bobby -
It's really good to hear from you. I am so glad your medical treatments are over - I know they were very difficult to endure. You sound like your spirits are up - and you certainly haven't lost your sense of humor either. Anyway, glad you're back on-line!

Lots of love,
Katie

P.S. Drop me a line when/if you feel up to it.
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Date: Fri, May 28, 1999 at 16:29:04 (EDT)
From: RT
Email: omm
To: mishkat@gateway.net
Subject: write this down
Message:
www.touchstar.pro.com/smile-software.html

humor for healing...

SMILE stands for Subjective - Multidimensional - Interactive - Laughter - Evaluation. And while it was developed by a team of leading researchers, physicians, nurses, psychologists, and humor experts, SMILE can be used by just about anyone who wishes to take an active and positive role in their own well being. It can also help those you love.

RT
I wuv you Gail and KT
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Date: Sat, May 29, 1999 at 15:54:12 (EDT)
From: Gail
Email: None
To: RT
Subject: write this down
Message:
Thanks for the laughs and the support, RT. I wuv you too.
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Date: Fri, May 28, 1999 at 17:00:53 (EDT)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Bobby
Subject: HI BOBBY
Message:
Glad to hear the treatments are over. You are the king of the re-frame, able to take what would be a horrible experience to most and find the value in it! You are an inspiration!!
Keep on truckin' like the doo-dah man!
Love
Helen
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Date: Sat, May 29, 1999 at 18:22:49 (EDT)
From: Bobby
Email: None
To: Helen
Subject: HI BOBBY
Message:
Hahaha! King of the re-frame! I like that!

Really what else to do but play with the cards one is dealt and use 'em to max benefit....

Yeah, keep on truckin'!

Love,

Bobby
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Date: Fri, May 28, 1999 at 17:30:35 (EDT)
From: gregg
Email: binduesque@yahoo.com
To: Peter Brach
Subject: Try to heal, but keep truckin!
Message:
Peter, I agree. Most ex-premies on this site are, understandably, bitter about spirituality. But, although I obviously picked a pretty pathetic excuse for a guru, looking back on it, a guru is what I needed at the time, and the devotion was good for me. (See my 'journeys' entry for more.)
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Date: Wed, May 26, 1999 at 22:27:55 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Backstage for hypnosis show
Message:
Just read this over at ELK:

Michael Borden reports

It's safe to say that few people, if any, associate this Saturday's speaker with regional dinner theater. You have to wonder, then, what it takes to transform a place like The Jackie Gleason Convention Center for The Performing Arts into an environment suitable for what Eduardo Antonacci calls 'the special encounter that happens between Maharaji and his guests.' As the Event Manager for the program in Miami, Antonacci has learned that the answer is: it takes a lot.

'We have over 200 people working around the clock to help make sure everything is taken care of so that the only thing there is for people to do is enjoy themselves and the time they have with Maharaji.' The list of titles alone speaks of the meticulous care and attention that goes into an event such as the one-day program and possible Knowledge session here in Miami. Stage manager. Hall liaison. Facilities manager. Communications manager. Contributions Manager. Usher Manager. The list goes on - covering just about everything you can think of, from the person in charge of medical care to the individual in charge of making sure that each and every headset is working so that guests can listen to Maharaji in any of translation languages.

TEAMWORK AND RESPONSIBILITY

The sheer volume of things that must get done - all synchronized, of course - is no surprise to Stephen Goldberg, event manager for Montreal which follows in two weeks. 'There's a tremendous joy and feeling among the people working to help put this together. Even if it feels like bedlam sometimes.' Goldberg, who has managed at least a dozen events in Canada over the years says the short lead time for this year's program makes clear communication between people participating all the more important. 'You just need to make sure everyone knows precisely what their responsibility is. Otherwise you end up with all sorts of gray areas that could have ripple effects throughout the whole event'. And considering that there will be over 70 Canadians asking to receive Knowledge this time - not to mention the dozens expected to infiltrate Canada's border from the south - there's precious little room for mistakes. 'It really comes down to two things: teamwork and responsibility', he says. 'And, of course, staying conscious of why we're doing all this in the first place.'

THE SMOOTHER THE BETTER

Back in Miami, Antonacci is on the alert against ripples himself. 'The smoother we can make things the better. I see us as the oil in the machinery. Our job is to make it as smooth as possible for Maharaji to be able to receive his guests.'

If it sounds like a lot of work, which it is, there's clearly another side as well. 'Even with so much to do, it stills feels like a gift. I'm very thankful to be able to participate this way', says Antonacci.

A full continent away, Goldberg, seconds the sentiment. 'It's really all a great opportunity to grow.'

Speaking of opportunities, the programs in Miami, Montreal and the two in Argentina, will be available for the first time to communities - and even individual households - by direct satellite transmission. 'With the short notice, especially since it's Memorial Day weekend', explains Laurie Gordon, who's helping to co-ordinate satellite reception in southern Connecticut ,' a lot of people couldn't get flights and hotels in Miami. So they're thankful to be able to 'attend' the event live, via satellite.'

UPLINKS, DOWNLINKS

She's working hard to address some of the technical issues, including the fact that there may be too many trees near the community facility to receive the signal clearly. 'I'll be happy to just cut them down', she says. 'Unfortunately, they're not our trees.' There are other technical issues involved as well, including the possibility that the satellite's orbit may be too low in the sky for a clear transmission to southern Connecticut. 'I'll be in Miami, though. I have to see him in person.'

Uplinks, downlinks, low orbits for the Northern hemisphere - just a few more items to add to the list of things to be accomplished to make it as easy as possible for people to enjoy their connection to Maharaji. Somehow it all gets done - leading up to that long-anticipated moment when Maharaji first comes out on stage.

Now, if we only had our own satellite!

EL: All three June events, Miami, Mar del Plata and Montreal, will be available across North America by live satellite broadcast. The signal can be beamed directly into people's homes or any location equipped with the appropriate satellite dish and decoder. Further information for North American residents is available at local video events.

This system will be tested during these events, and hopefully this kind of transmission will be available in other parts of the world soon.

What I wonder, amongst other things, is why there's this obsession about things running smoothly and all. Doesn't it sound like a set up for soem sort of sales pitch? What it really reminds me of is the extreme care that's urged in the secret initiator manual (over on JM's site) when dealing with new people. Like, one uncontrolled moment could lead to one unwanted question and then, well, who knows where that might lead?
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Date: Wed, May 26, 1999 at 22:43:12 (EDT)
From: Rob
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Backstage for hypnosis show
Message:
What I wonder, amongst other things, is why there's this obsession about things running smoothly and all

Actually Jim it's pretty much normal in large scale corporate events. All that attention to detail and systems checking isn't sinister at all, it's simply professionalism.
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Date: Wed, May 26, 1999 at 22:54:49 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Rob
Subject: No, it's more than that
Message:
Rob,

I know what you're saying about professionalism but I think the EV trip is a bit weirder than that. After all, what are we talking about? A spiritual leader gets together with his followers and perhaps some interested people to counsel, take questions -- oops, sorry! -- well, counsel, sell a few trinkets, tell everyone how much fun they're having and encourage them all to come again. Everyone involved's hip to the trip. It's not like some superly important high-pressure sales meeting, you know, like the new megaclient's coming over for dinner or something. Can't afford to let a single loose thread show. I mean, really, what is that shit?

Is perfection the opposite of spontaneity?
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Date: Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 00:36:25 (EDT)
From: Rob
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: It's not easy
Message:
to be objective, when you look at anything involving Maharaji. That's perfectly understandable. If I were to attend a Scientology conference, I've no doubt that the same attention to detail and intense activity would prevail there also. But I would definately rip the shit out of it in describing it to you!

Again, in my typically annoying way, I have to say that it doesn't phase me. I take a great deal of pride in my work, and strive to produce high quality results regardless of whether my client is IBM or Joe's Diner. It gives me pleasure to do that. I believe that Maharaji enjoys doing things to a high standard also, and obviously this rubs off on those involved in setting up the events for him.
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Date: Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 01:00:01 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Rob
Subject: Funniest thing all day
Message:
If I were to attend a Scientology conference, I've no doubt that the same attention to detail and intense activity would prevail there also. But I would definately rip the shit out of it in describing it to you!

Wow! The ultimate damning-with-faint-praise. So EV's no worse than Scientology? Aw come on, Rob, the next thing you're going to say is that it's no more a cult than, well, Scientology!

Again, in my typically annoying way, I have to say that it doesn't phase me. I take a great deal of pride in my work, and strive to produce high quality results regardless of whether my client is IBM or Joe's Diner. It gives me pleasure to do that. I believe that Maharaji enjoys doing things to a high standard also, and obviously this rubs off on those involved in setting up the events for him.

You call this plastic, glitzy schamlty, with the Shri Hans BBQ aprons and forced, fixed smiles 'high standards'? That's like some grads hiring tux's and a limo so they can do it right, really classy and everything. Rob! Rob! Wake up, Rob!
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Date: Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 01:22:14 (EDT)
From: Rob
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Funniest thing all day
Message:
EV's no worse than Scientology

That's your comparison, not mine. My example served to illustrate the fact that I would be unable to give a clear, objective description of a Scientology conference setup because of the personal hurt I suffered all those years ago. Similarily, I could empathise with your need for vitriolic unloading on Elan Vital if for some reason you had been hurt during your years as a premie.

That is the reason you and I can look at exactly the same scenario and see it entirely differently. I could spend hours and hours listening to Scientologists talk about how wonderful Ron Hubbard is, and it wouldn't change my opinion one bit. I know what I went through and I don't care if it was 'atypical', it screwed me up big time.

Wow, it's 1:20am already. I'm turning into a nerd here Jim! Catch up with you next time. Sleep well.
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Date: Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 01:23:01 (EDT)
From: cp
Email: None
To: thread
Subject: Unprofessional
Message:
If all that effort to detail and smoothrunning is going on, its very unprofessional to talk about it. So they must have a motive for exposing all the preparations.

Big deal , these measures are only common sense and must be part of any event preparation.

Even in the 'Making of' segments of different movies on telelvision, they dont go ape about discribing how organized they are.

I seems like another gimmic to allow a peek at blissed out premies doing selfless service.
so humble.

such posturing

And that snob who is organizing the sattelite for Conneticut and then lets her 'I never matured past high school snide side' come out with 'I have to see him in person'!!!

bigot

she wouldnt last a week in any high school with that crap.
I mean, even Buffy the teenage witch wouldnt put up with it.

she needs a sign stuck to her back saying 'let them eat cake.'

Sisters of Conneticut UNITE and purge your town of this ZSA ZSA
tell her to take her sattellite and put it where the sun dont shine--------- (or something like that)------
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Date: Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 08:41:10 (EDT)
From: mw
Email: None
To: cp
Subject: Hey! Buffy=Vampire Slayer (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Fri, May 28, 1999 at 01:03:50 (EDT)
From: Liz
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Schamaltzy
Message:
I loved the analogy of the grads hiring tuxes & limos. Really classy and everything. What a hoot!

I wish premies were cooler re their devotion.

Liz
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Date: Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 05:44:38 (EDT)
From: Michael Borden
Email: None
To: everyone
Subject: Here come the Bagman
Message:
'Now, if we only had our own satellite !'

Get it!!
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Date: Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 13:16:42 (EDT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Michael Borden
Subject: Here come the Bagman
Message:
And they can use all of their highly educated 'rocket scientists' to design and launch it....By His Grace, of course! :-)
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Date: Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 09:44:04 (EDT)
From: Catweasel
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Backstage for hypnosis show
Message:
Jim your up there with 007!!You go to an open access web-site and download it.Way cool!Whats your next trick,reprinting the K-Mart
catelogue?
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Date: Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 12:07:41 (EDT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Catweasel
Subject: You kill me
Message:
Catweasel,

Are you here for any other reason than to be a jerk?
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Date: Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 15:40:45 (EDT)
From: Victoria
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: Why is Catweasel Here?
Message:
Hey Jerry,

I was wondering the same thing myself, I even asked him, but he didn't answer the question.

Will wonders never cease?

Love,
Victoria
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Date: Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 18:46:25 (EDT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Victoria
Subject: Why is Catweasel Here?
Message:
Victoria,

Believe it or not, I kind of like the weasel. It's always fun to see what kind of bullshit he's gonna be saying next. I'm sure a lot of people disagree with this. But seriously, I don't think he's doing any harm as far as anybody's recovery goes, so I think he's kind of fun to have around.
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Date: Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 12:33:59 (EDT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Catweasel
Subject: THIS from a person(?)
Message:
with the intelligence quotient and acumen of your typical garden hoe! How about some more of your pearls of wisdom, CatMeasles.
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Date: Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 12:44:05 (EDT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Katwheezle
Subject: I'm sorry....
Message:
Katwheezle: I should have spelled it so that even you could understand.....Aye ment purlz of wizdumb. There is that better?
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Date: Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 15:45:17 (EDT)
From: Victoria
Email: None
To: Mike
Subject: Mikey Rainbow
Message:
Hey Mike,

Have you been hanging out with Tami?

Luv,
Victoria

P.S. I am really getting sick of Catweasel, where is the TERMINATOR when you really need him?
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Date: Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 16:36:21 (EDT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Victoria
Subject: Mikey Rainbow
Message:
Victoria: No, I'm safe from the effects of Tami.....he he he. My spelling skills are still intact (such as they are). But, I needed to change gears for our resident 'garden tool' (aka katwheezle).... You know, they one that is 52 cards short of a full deck.
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Date: Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 17:11:44 (EDT)
From: cp
Email: None
To: Mike
Subject: I do not see cat sneezle do U?
Message:
ignore him maybe he'll go away.
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Date: Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 19:22:11 (EDT)
From: Gail
Email: None
To: cp
Subject: Cat sneezle is a pleasure
Message:
compared to UV. UV is a dangerous, caustic sociopath on the rampage. Loving posts such as UV's can only bring disrepute to the cult (you are only as good as your weakest link). Cat and Nil are kind people who believe in MJ and K. Due to their misplaced loyalties and anonymity, both can be hurtful, and have trouble defending the cult logically (who doesn't).

Rob has been commissioned to improve the PWK image and convince old-time zealots to stop posting. He is positive amd diplomatic regardless of the questions or comments. He has made a few feeble efforts to get other premies off this site with comments such as, 'Who made you MJ's spokesperson.' UV, Nil, Catweasel, et al, this is your cue to quit this nasty site.
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Date: Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 19:52:10 (EDT)
From: cp
Email: None
To: Gail
Subject: Cat sneezle is a pleasure
Message:
You might be right about Rob, but I am a push over when it comes to Scottish accents.

Dont you think it is possible that he really is a recluse who just happens to be having dinner it Raj?
But that really doesnt add up does it.

Maybe he actually is a plant that has just kept some form of dignity.

That was one thing that struck me at the programs. Why the street premies looked so stupid with thier grins and why the PAM looked cool calm and collected.
I have related how I walked up to one of those and looked him in the eye and his eyes were spooky- kind of vacant.

Do you know what programs are happening and where?
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Date: Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 20:22:21 (EDT)
From: Mary M
Email: None
To: cp
Subject: Rrrobert
Message:
Dont you think it is possible that he really is a recluse who just happens to be having dinner with Raj?

The lad's an all out name dropping PAM.

Hope he follows through on the donations to hospices and shelters.

Luv,
Mary
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Date: Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 20:45:12 (EDT)
From: Rob
Email: None
To: Mary M & Gail
Subject: My ears are burning!
Message:
So, talking about me behind my back, eh ladies?

Recluse? Plant? You make me sound like some kind of wallflower.

Please...carry on :)
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Date: Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 21:19:05 (EDT)
From: Gail
Email: None
To: Rob
Subject: You're such a cute plant, Rob
Message:
You say all the right things. However, you have not done a very good job of getting rid of the bongo premies. If you don't have more success, MJ will be calling you to tell you to stop F-ck-ng -r--nd (care to buy a vowel).

He might also leave you stranded in your hotel room for daze on end 'waiting the words of the master and watching the hidden light .. in the very midst of the fight.' That's what he used to do to KK at the Mission's expense, but funds are dwindling.
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Date: Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 21:22:01 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Gail
Subject: Hey, Rob
Message:
Have you had a chance to give my message to Raja Ji yet? I took the day off work waiting for his call. :)
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Date: Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 21:32:19 (EDT)
From: Rob
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Hey, Rob
Message:
Sure you did.

Actually I just got home from work myself and retrieved it, and I won't see him till the weekend.
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Date: Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 21:49:25 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Rob
Subject: Then can you add this?
Message:
Raja Ji,

I just wanted to share another funny memory I have of you. When I was living in the Ottawa ashram in 1974, late '74, you and Claudia came to town to give a little satsang or something. (Your talks should always be characterized that way, don't you think? 'A little satsang or something'? I mean, really, Raja Ji, half the time you just mumbled along about this or that. You seemed about as interested as a 13-year old boy doing an oral book report. No one knew what the fuck you were saying but just thought it kind of neat that the Lord of the Universe could have such a funky brother like you. And future head of world security no less!)

Anyway, you and the little lady came to Ottawa. Do you remember where you ate that night? That's right, at the ashram on McLaren street by the canal. Nice place, we had the main floor of a large old brownstone. Well, we must have liked it because that night we tried to convert it into a private, exclusive dining room. You and Claudia came in -- wearing your shoes, no less! -- and we went through the whole routine of serving your sweet, divine asses in the best way we could imagine. Do you remember that?

Raja Ji, really, if it weren't for the money, wouldn't you ahve bailed on all this idiocy years ago? Look at your family! You've got not one, but two, Lord of the Universe's for brothers. Then there's the ... well, let's be kind and call him the Lord of Music and... hm.. I forgot about the dogs.

What do you tell your kids, by the way? And how about your nieces and nephews? On both sides? (Do you ever see Satpal and his little brood of future Lord of the Universe's?). Have you ever had an honest discussion with any of them? Or are you too afraid of getting cut off?

Call me, Raja Ji. I can help. :)
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Date: Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 22:04:28 (EDT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Rob
Subject: Things are getting weird
Message:
You a plant, Rob? Personally, I don't think so. I'd hate to believe that's true. That would be kind of sinister, don't you think, if you were just playing like you were here of your own volition? That would make you incredibly fucked up as far as I'm concerned. And Maharaji too or whoever put you up to it. But me, personally? I don't think so. I think you're who you say you are.

I can't play these paranoia games anymore, trying to figure out what's below the surface. It makes life weirder than it already is. So I'll just take you on your word. I think you're just Rob, a decent guy who's got some questions. I hope I'm right.
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Date: Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 22:20:04 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: Robert plant?
Message:
Sorry, I just had to say that.

I guess there are two possible 'plants' here: the fake ex-premie who gains your confidence and gets you to email him or her all the secret developments in say, the IRS report; and the premie-with-a-mission, sent here to counter the impression people like Catweasel give about the premie character.

I don't think there have been any of the former. I can tell you no one's ever bothered me for 'background' info and, quite honestly, I think I'd be one of the likely targets of such a campaign. (Mind you, I did get some email from Katie recently. Hm....?). No, I don't think we've had the pleasure on that score yet.

But how about the other kind? The 'nice, reasonable' premie, the real spin doctor type?

Obviously, the greatest candidate for that suspicion must be our dear friend, OP. Where is she, by the way? OP surely sounded like someone who might have been up to the job and, by her account anyway, she was and is a PAM of sorts. Yeah, maybe she was sent to quell the masses' doubt and fear. Maybe yes, maybe no. (Personall,y I'd bet 'no')

My thought is'who the fuck cares?' It don't make no difference as far as I can tell. Even CD, god bless his soul, might be a little weenie plant. And Cat might be a little sucker plant. Who cares?
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Date: Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 22:38:44 (EDT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Robert plant?
Message:
I guess you're right Jim. It wouldn't make any sense caring about it, especially when there isn't a shred of evidence (outside of the type brought forth by paranoia) to support it.

Robert plant? Cute.
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Date: Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 22:48:57 (EDT)
From: Robert Plant
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: Robert plant?
Message:
Damn, you've sussed out my real identity.

But Jerry, rememberthe old adage:

Just because you're paranoid, doesn't mean they're not out to get you
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Date: Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 22:38:58 (EDT)
From: Rob
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Robert plant? I'll take
Message:
that! I'm a lifelong Zepplin devotee. Still got my faded jeans with the ZOSO embroidery (my own handywork). Would get a fortune for them on eBay.

Stick with the 'who the fuck cares' approach. I certainly could care less whether people who contribute to the forum practise Knowledge or not. I hastily add, though, that I do care about the degree of suffering and pain I'm reading about from time to time. Have you seen me respond to those people with a 'try practising Knowledge' approach? No, and you never will. I remember one of my first bits of homespun advice to Gail was to see her doctor for help.

As to countering the impression that people like Catweasel give about the premie character, I should hope that any reasonably intelligent person would see that this gentleman is making an ass only of himself, not of the group to which he belongs. If you listen to John Hagee or the Reverand Bigmouth on TBN, do you come away thinking all Christians are loud, fanatical bullies? I should hope not.
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Date: Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 22:23:54 (EDT)
From: Rob
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: Things are getting weird
Message:
Thanks Jerry.

Is it a planetary alignment thing or what, today? All of a sudden I'm some Secret Agent for EV/DLM/DUO/OGM/SHIP/DECA/etcetc?

Whatever.

Check out my MSN horoscope for today..(Gemini) today would be a good day to access Web sites or discussion groups and contribute your knowledge. Yeah right.

There's an easy test. Hands up all those present who are considering a: practising Knowledge again, b: writing out a check to Elan Vital or c: questioning their own viewpoint, after reading my posts.

No takers?

Pretty useless plant, by all accounts.
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Date: Fri, May 28, 1999 at 00:57:27 (EDT)
From: Liz
Email: None
To: Rob
Subject: ABC
Message:
Actually I'm doing all three.

Thanks Rob.

Liz
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Date: Fri, May 28, 1999 at 17:14:30 (EDT)
From: Rob
Email: None
To: Liz
Subject: ABC
Message:
Bless you!

You doin' anything next week?
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Date: Fri, May 28, 1999 at 20:27:30 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Liz
Subject: Really, Liz?
Message:
Liz,

Are you a born-again premie or something?
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Date: Sat, May 29, 1999 at 09:46:42 (EDT)
From: Nim
Email: None
To: Rob
Subject: YO... ROBBO! Weird indeed!!
Message:
Is it a planetary alignment thing or what, today? All of a sudden I'm some Secret Agent for EV/DLM/DUO/OGM/SHIP/DECA/etcetc

You forgot Amtext Rob, but don't feel bad...our brand new webmaster also has difficulty in talking about Amtext.
That is talking about Amtext ON THE FORUM. Off the forum, he's emailed me questions about Amtext and about how my own business is going these days, says he's behind me and all that...but ON THE FORUM, the only two times he's ever had ANYTHING to say about Amtext...it was to minimize the entire issue.
Nope, ole Roger/barney/whoeverthe fuck he is would rather present a whole lot of Dettmers sizzle, rather than talk about THAT WHICH IS REALLY IMPORTANT TO M...his beloved Amtext, and its president, Chuckie Cheese Nathan.
Now how important is Dettmers to m? Today I mean?
Can you help fill us in Rob?
Hey, I got an idea! Why don't you phone your buddy Rajaji, and ask him?!
That'll be great...it'll be nice to get some useful information from you for a change!
Nice talkn to ya, Robbo.
And thanks!
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Date: Sat, May 29, 1999 at 20:13:31 (EDT)
From: Gail
Email: None
To: Nimmy
Subject: Barney is okay, Nim.
Message:
He was already here posting when I arrived last June. He was really kind to me. There was never a hint of anything but contempt for his time lost to DLM/EV. Do you really think that a premie would dare put that picture of MJ with the big mammaries on line. I know I wouldn't have (I still wouldn't just in case I got turned into a frog).

Seriously, Nimmy, I think he's okay. Rob, Catweasel, Nil, you, me, everyone is okay, regardless of his/her stance on MJ. That is what makes this site interesting. I don't want to pretend that everything is hunky dorey anymore unless it is. I agree with Jim that posters should be given timeout for ignorant comments and total lack of respect--preschoolers need that. Almost everyone deserves respect. Then again, how can we expect respect and clarity from people whose minds have been crushed in a vice for 20 some odd years.

Even if Barney is a PAM in sheep's clothing, he is the new webmaster. Why kick a gift horse in the mouth? Speak your mind. What will the PAMs do? Sue? HAHAHAHA The fortune teller in me predicts a long friendship between you and Mr. Barney Rubble. Have you ever noticed that the people you initially detest are often the ones you love the most in the end?
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Date: Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 21:41:32 (EDT)
From: Rob
Email: None
To: Gail
Subject: You're such a cute plant, Rob
Message:
No, I'm big and ugly. And stupid. And I smell.

You don't really want to get rid of bongo premies from your site, do you? Wouldn't that cut out half the fun?

As far as Maharaji calling me, that would be pretty amazing, considering he doesn't know who I am, have my phone number or that I'm posting here. Now God does, but God ain't telling.

BTW, how are you feeling today?
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Date: Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 22:15:54 (EDT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Rob
Subject: You think so?
Message:
As far as Maharaji calling me, that would be pretty amazing, considering he doesn't know who I am, have my phone number or that I'm posting here. Now God does, but God ain't telling.[my emphasis]

What makes you so sure about that?
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Date: Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 22:44:26 (EDT)
From: Rob
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: So sure
Message:
Because he's on my side, he loves me and would never do anything to harm me.

Besides, he's probably having a hoot himself!
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Date: Fri, May 28, 1999 at 22:05:43 (EDT)
From: Gail
Email: None
To: cp
Subject: cp-Parlez-vous francais?
Message:
The Lard is in Miami this weekend and Montreal on June 14, 1999. We should all go! Parlez-vous francais? Je ne parle pas tres bien, mais BHOLE SHIRI SATGURU DEV DOESN'T NEED ANY TRANSLATION!
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Date: Sat, May 29, 1999 at 03:01:47 (EDT)
From: cp
Email: None
To: Gail
Subject: cp-Parlez-vous francais?
Message:
Gail, I cant go. We should all get together at one of the programs though.
Would be interesting to know if he is onstage for more than 20 minutes.
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Date: Fri, May 28, 1999 at 05:20:01 (EDT)
From: Catweasel
Email: kiss my pussy
To: cp
Subject: I do not see cat sneezle do U?
Message:
fat chance
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Date: Fri, May 28, 1999 at 06:19:29 (EDT)
From: Sid NIGH
Email: None
To: Rob
Subject: Rob unmasked
Message:
I know who Rob is.He's bullshitting about being Scottish.I reckon hr's about 50 something,balding and of Scottish heritage,but now after a couple of decades in L.A,he's a traveller.Started in Oz,moved to NZ then a visionary in.....
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Date: Fri, May 28, 1999 at 17:28:05 (EDT)
From: Bare faced Rob
Email: None
To: Sid NIGH
Subject: Rob unmasked
Message:
Shit - busted!
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Date: Fri, May 28, 1999 at 23:05:34 (EDT)
From: Sid Nigh
Email: Hi from Adele Laid
To: Bare faced Rob
Subject: Rob unmasked
Message:
As Butthead said to Beavis 'Your secret is safe with me Beavis'
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Date: Fri, May 28, 1999 at 18:57:16 (EDT)
From: Gail
Email: None
To: Mike
Subject: I'm sorry....
Message:
Aye ment purlz of wizdumb. Now, that's funny. Cat is getting worse by the hour. It must be the preprogramming blues.
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Date: Wed, May 26, 1999 at 21:47:48 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Rob re Raja Ji
Message:
Rob,

Did you say that you were in contact with Raja Ji? If so, and it's true that you talk to him from time to time, are you going to mention this page to him? Have you already?

If you do speak with him ask him if he remembers meeting me in L.A. in the late 80s. I've told the story a number of times. I challenged him a bit the night before at a plane fundraiser out by the airport. We talked a bit after and he came down to my office on Wilshire near Centinela in West L.A. (He was driving back out to Malibu after having his haircut in Beverly Hills). We went downstairs to the Red Robin for a drink (he had perrier, I had a scotch), and started talking.

I asked him about all the changes I'd witnessed over the past decade or so and he first tried to line me up with some instructor like Alberto or someone -- one of those euro guys -- who, he said, was 'really good' at working with people who were 'confused' about some of the changes. I got a little impatient around then and told him that was bullshit. What I wanted was answers, plain and simple. I told him that I was probably wasting my time talking with him it was his brother I needed to speak with.

Ask him if he remembers what he said at that point. My recollection is that his demeanour shifted as if to represent more openness, less smugness, as he looked at me and told me that he himself had tried to ask Maharaji some of these questions but that Maharaji wouldn't even answer him on these issues. Ask him if he remembers that.

You might also want to ask him if Maharaji's giving him more money these days. I ask because he was bitching that he wasn't getting what he needed, living in New York and all that. Tell him I hope things worked out but that, if they didn't, he could always sell that extremely large Mercedes he was driving. Just a thought.
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Date: Wed, May 26, 1999 at 22:02:26 (EDT)
From: Rob
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Rob re Raja Ji
Message:
How about I just give you his phone number and you ask him yourself?
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Date: Wed, May 26, 1999 at 22:06:03 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: heller@bc1.com
To: Rob
Subject: Rob re Raja Ji
Message:
How about I just give you his phone number and you ask him yourself?

Sure. Why not email me? This should be fun.
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Date: Wed, May 26, 1999 at 22:30:02 (EDT)
From: Rob
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Raja Ji
Message:
I wasn't being serious, Jim. I do have his phone number, but I'm pretty sure it's unlisted. You could try '00' the new AT&T directory service. I have an unlisted number also, and I sure as hell wouldn't appreciate it being given out without my consent. That's only common courtesy, not premie subservience.
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Date: Wed, May 26, 1999 at 22:57:34 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Rob
Subject: Fine, then
Message:
I wasn't being serious, Jim. I do have his phone number, but I'm pretty sure it's unlisted. You could try '00' the new AT&T directory service. I have an unlisted number also, and I sure as hell wouldn't appreciate it being given out without my consent. That's only common courtesy, not premie subservience.

No problem, Rob. But that just takes us back to my asking you if you'll ask him about me? Will you?
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Date: Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 00:19:14 (EDT)
From: Rob
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: How about
Message:
I printout your posting and give it to him? Would you like to rewrite it or add to it first? I'd be more than happy to do that for you if it would help.
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Date: Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 00:55:00 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Rob
Subject: Sure. Here it is....
Message:
Hi Raja Ji,

Remember me? I'm the former premie you met for a drink once in L.A. in the late eighties after I'd challenged you a bit at the airplane fundraiser the night before. Some guy had earnestly whined to you about how hard it was to feel the fullness of his realtionship with Maharaji given all the changes of the preceding few years. You'd responded with some boilerplate advice, something to the effect of 'don't worry about it' blah, blah, blah .... (sorry, I didn't take notes). That's when I shouted out 'old on there, we were told you guys were divine!' Remember?

Your answer was interesting. You asked me if I'd seen The Last Emperor yet. You compared your youth with his, describing how all you Rawats were raised to believe you'd never have to work for a living. I didn't say it then but I remember sudenly respecting you a bit; frankly, I couldn't believe how honest you were in that moment.

Anyway, we carried on. I told you I'd given eight years of my life to your brother and felt that I deserved some accounting or something. You know, even the President has to give his annual State of the Union address. Maharaji had promised so much. We'd tried, at least, to trust him a thousand per cent. As instructed, I should add. Now the ashrams were closed, the outward push had pretty well ground to a halt. Was he still the Lord? Had he ever been?

You asked me if those years in the ashram were happy ones. I responded that that wasn't the question. First, what could I compare them to? I only lived through my twenties once - in your brother's monasic order. No, I replied, the question was what was the real truth of the matter. I didn't join up for any reason other than that Maharaji himself had presented. If you don't remember, I'd suggest you read some of the old satsangs. Read your own, for that matter. It's all there.

Anyway, after the 'show' I came up and introduced myself. I mentioned that I was a lawyer and suddenly, or so it seemed, you took a bit of an interest in me. You agreed to meet me at my office the next day so we could talk a little more. Remember?

Sure enough, you did join me for a drink at the Red Robin on Wilshire. You had a Perrier, I had a scotch. You told me how hard it was getting by on the measly stipend Maharaji was giving you as a part-time instructor, the cost of living in New York being what it was and all. I asked you about Claudia, not knowing that you two were split. Then I started in with all these questions: why had Maharaji apparently whittled down his mission statement?; what was Knowledge anyway?; who was Maharaji after all; and, perhaps most importantly, why won't he answer any of these questions?

At first you patronized me pretty blatantly. You suggested I get together with one of the euro instructors that were hanging around Malibu then, someone like Alberto, or Alvero or hell, you think I remember? He was particularly good at counselling people with my kind of confusion, you said.

Naturally, this pissed me off and I told you as much. I didn't need counselling, I said, I needed some answers. And, I added, it was obviously a waste of time asking you anything, it was your kid brother I should be talking to.

Here's where it got interesting. I recall as if it were yesterday your visage dropping, your demeanour shifting. You suddenly seemed honest and serious. 'He won't talk with me either', you said. 'I've tried to ask him those same questions but he won't talk about any of this'

What could I say? We finished our drinks and I walked you out to your car. Remember?

Now, Raja Ji, I've got all the answers I need. That is, I now know so much about this trip, believe me, my days of confusion are long gone. I know your brother's about as fake as they come. The 'Lord of the Universe'? Hey, how could he be? That's what Satpal is, isn't he?

No, I don't need any further answers, although I'd sure appreciate a few more. I'd like to know how you can live with yourself for one thing. How does it feel to ride high on the back of a cult leader, one of the real gross embarrassments of the twentieth century? I guess you have to do a little mental housekeeping on that one, eh?

I'd also like to know if you'd like to have drink again sometime. Don't worry, like before, I'm buying.

You can reach me, if you like, at (250) 360-1040.

Sincerely (with lots of Understanding, but little Appreciation or Gratitude),

Jim Heller
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Date: Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 13:42:35 (EDT)
From: Blue Bird
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Sure. Here it is....
Message:
Jim,

It was Alvaro Pascotto, Raja Ji advised you meet with. He is an attorney specializing in Aviation and Entertainment Law. He is also the RA for Rawats childrens corporation, Wahadamar Inc. I suppose if you want to take the advice 20 years later you can reach him at the law firm of Irell and Manelli in LA.

bb
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Date: Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 22:45:44 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Blue Bird
Subject: Maybe
Message:
Actually, Raja Ji mentioned Alvaro to me at the time. I think Alvaro was then in another office in my very office building in West L.A. Could he have been working for a consulate then? Something like that. Perhaps if we'd gotten on a little better Raja Ji might have introduced me and I could have started swimming upstream. (sigh!) Oh well.

Irell and Minella's a big firm. Good for Alvaro, I'm sure.

But I think it was some other euro bro he was talking about. Not that it matters.
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Date: Fri, May 28, 1999 at 14:03:00 (EDT)
From: g's mom
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Hey, did he pick up the tab?
Message:
For the scotch and perrier? Or was that why he complained of his miserable stipend?
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Date: Fri, May 28, 1999 at 21:50:33 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: g's mom
Subject: No, but he gave me some
Message:
old food line tickets.
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Date: Fri, May 28, 1999 at 22:28:46 (EDT)
From: Gail
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Food tickets
Message:
I did that SERVE-MY-SELF job of dispensing food tickets at Kissimmee '79. Another woman and I had spent most of our money for the $100 US entrance fee; luckily, I kept us well supplied with food tickets.

I remember giving the other people (men, not the women and children) a hard time (I suggested that they panhandle for the cash). Those freeloaders weren't going to catweasel those tickets out of me.

What else could I do? I was dispensing tickets, so I didn't have the time (or the humility) to beg. Yes, I felt a lot of grace at that program. MJ was taking very good care of me.
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Date: Wed, May 26, 1999 at 22:08:32 (EDT)
From: Liz
Email: None
To: Rob
Subject: Rob re Raja Ji
Message:
Could I get your email address? I think I may know you.

Liz
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Date: Wed, May 26, 1999 at 22:48:51 (EDT)
From: Rob
Email: None
To: Liz
Subject: email
Message:
Ooh don't tempt me! It's highly unlikely you know me, as I only know a handfull of premies and no ex-premies IRL. Perhaps I remind you of someone? If you don't mind , I'll hold off with the email address for a while, I know for a fact there are silent watchers here who would love that information. (not 'ex's')
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Date: Wed, May 26, 1999 at 23:13:13 (EDT)
From: Gail
Email: None
To: Rob
Subject: You can't let your premie
Message:
associates know that you read and post here. Why not? I don't mean tell us exs. I'm referring to people you've know for 23 years. Why do you have to keep secrets? FEAR!
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Date: Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 00:15:48 (EDT)
From: Rob
Email: None
To: Gail
Subject: No fear
Message:
I think I mentioned a couple of times, but you may have missed it, that I don't have too many premie associates. Most of the ones I knew 23 years ago I lost touch with when I left Scotland, and I honestly have no idea if they are even alive, let alone still practising. Of those that I do know, none are what I would consider my friends. A couple I know professionally, the rest I interact with in the course of doing service. None of them could possibly induce fear in me. I'm a big Scottish fella, from a particularily unsavoury part of Glasgow. 'Nuff said.

It's all about choice, as is the rest of my life. I believe that people have the freedom to remain anonymous and incommunicado if they so wish, and without having to justify it to anyone. Precisely the reason I wouldn't give out RJ's phone number to Jim.
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Date: Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 10:00:05 (EDT)
From: Catweasel
Email: None
To: Rob
Subject: No fear
Message:
Correcto Mundo,compadre
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Date: Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 11:05:45 (EDT)
From: Gail
Email: None
To: Catweasel
Subject: No fear
Message:
I already stated that I didn't think anyone should have release his/her identity here or give out phone numbers either. My point is that you can't tell anyone you know in Elan Vital. If you were to tell, it wouldn't be long before some monitor would be scrutinizing your every word to determine if you are fit to allow into programs.
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Date: Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 20:50:29 (EDT)
From: Rob
Email: None
To: Gail
Subject: No fear
Message:
You just hit the nail right on the head.

Back in my secret squirrel days, I couldn't tell the other laddies in the ashcan what I was doing, even though my instructions came from 'up there', simply because I would have been judged solely on my actions in the moment, and probably gotten booted out.
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Date: Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 16:36:40 (EDT)
From: neville
Email: None
To: Liz
Subject: good hunting liz
Message:
Liz..you seem to be asking a lot of guys for email addresses...are you hunting...good hunting :-)..well why dont u give us ur email address
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Date: Thurs, May 27, 1999 at 19:04:06 (EDT)
From: Liz
Email: None
To: neville
Subject: good hunting liz
Message:
Neville,

I don't believe we've met. Hunting for what? I'm a happily married women!

I just want to be able to communicate without disclosing too many secrets.

Liz
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Date: Fri, May 28, 1999 at 00:20:04 (EDT)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: Boys
Subject: good hunting liz
Message:
Leave Liz alone.
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Date: Fri, May 28, 1999 at 18:36:44 (EDT)
From: Gail
Email: freedom@gtn.net
To: Revile--I mean Neville
Subject: Leave Liz Alone--Find marbles
Message:
I suggest you hunt for your marbles; you don't have time to worry about the pursuits of others.
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