Ex-Premie.Org

Forum III Archive # 48

From: May 21, 1999

To: May 30, 1999

Page: 4 Of: 5



sylvestre -:- ego blow -:- Sun, May 23, 1999 at 03:47:08 (EDT)
__Sir Dave -:- ego blow -:- Sun, May 23, 1999 at 04:15:59 (EDT)
____Helen -:- ego blow -:- Sun, May 23, 1999 at 07:24:44 (EDT)
__WOW -:- ego blow -:- Sun, May 23, 1999 at 12:14:36 (EDT)
____sylvestre -:- ego blow -:- Tues, May 25, 1999 at 01:37:52 (EDT)

Walter -:- M's Schedule -:- Sun, May 23, 1999 at 01:46:18 (EDT)

Gail -:- Don't Lecture Me, Nil! -:- Sat, May 22, 1999 at 22:04:30 (EDT)
__Sir Dave -:- Don't Lecture Me, Nil! -:- Sun, May 23, 1999 at 04:00:19 (EDT)
__Catweasel -:- Piss off and dont come back! -:- Sun, May 23, 1999 at 04:43:01 (EDT)
____Gail -:- Piss off and dont come back! -:- Sun, May 23, 1999 at 08:20:02 (EDT)
______Catweasel -:- X Propaganda INCORRECT -:- Sun, May 23, 1999 at 10:04:49 (EDT)
________Rob -:- X Propaganda INCORRECT -:- Sun, May 23, 1999 at 20:49:14 (EDT)
__________Catweasel -:- X Propaganda INCORRECT -:- Mon, May 24, 1999 at 07:32:51 (EDT)
__________Sid Nigh -:- X Propaganda INCORRECT -:- Mon, May 24, 1999 at 08:13:15 (EDT)
________Mike -:- So, who is this one guy? -:- Mon, May 24, 1999 at 10:53:06 (EDT)
__________Sid Nigh -:- So, who is this one guy? -:- Mon, May 24, 1999 at 11:00:43 (EDT)
____________Rob -:- So, who is this one guy? -:- Mon, May 24, 1999 at 18:17:12 (EDT)
______________Mike -:- Sure, why not? -:- Mon, May 24, 1999 at 18:59:40 (EDT)
______________Jerry -:- So, who is this one guy? -:- Mon, May 24, 1999 at 19:02:56 (EDT)
________________Copta' Buzz -:- So, who is this one guy? -:- Mon, May 24, 1999 at 19:40:30 (EDT)
__________________Jerry -:- It's a thought -:- Mon, May 24, 1999 at 20:25:58 (EDT)
__________________Copta' Buzz -:- graphics for my post -:- Tues, May 25, 1999 at 12:46:56 (EDT)
____________________Mike -:- BWAH HA HA HA HA -:- Tues, May 25, 1999 at 13:23:52 (EDT)
______________________Mary M -:- Hey It's the new Invitation -:- Tues, May 25, 1999 at 17:50:54 (EDT)
____________________Depressed -:- graphics for my post -:- Tues, May 25, 1999 at 14:40:43 (EDT)
____________________Roger E. Drek -:- I'm going back to Maharaji! -:- Tues, May 25, 1999 at 16:29:55 (EDT)
______________________Mike -:- Dance, dance, dance -:- Tues, May 25, 1999 at 17:24:44 (EDT)
________________________Mike -:- I wanna get close to you -:- Tues, May 25, 1999 at 17:25:54 (EDT)
________________________Mike -:- Well, hello Dolly... -:- Tues, May 25, 1999 at 17:27:13 (EDT)
__________________gerry -:- renaissance man -:- Tues, May 25, 1999 at 13:23:10 (EDT)
________________Rob -:- So, who is this one guy? -:- Mon, May 24, 1999 at 21:13:33 (EDT)
__________________Mary -:- So, who is this one guy? -:- Mon, May 24, 1999 at 21:26:04 (EDT)
____________________Rob -:- So, who is this one guy? -:- Mon, May 24, 1999 at 21:33:23 (EDT)
______________________Mary M -:- So, who is this one guy? -:- Mon, May 24, 1999 at 21:48:54 (EDT)
__________________peter howie -:- So, who is this one guy? -:- Mon, May 24, 1999 at 22:15:00 (EDT)
____________________Gail -:- So, I'm amused! -:- Mon, May 24, 1999 at 23:42:04 (EDT)
______________________Gail -:- Rob, you are delightful, but -:- Mon, May 24, 1999 at 23:57:16 (EDT)
________________________Rob -:- Fangs a lot -:- Tues, May 25, 1999 at 17:28:07 (EDT)
__________________________Gail -:- Fangs a lot--You're quite the -:- Tues, May 25, 1999 at 17:52:03 (EDT)
____________________________Liz -:- email address for Gail -:- Wed, May 26, 1999 at 00:01:39 (EDT)
__________________________Mary M -:- Candles & Trinkets -:- Tues, May 25, 1999 at 18:02:40 (EDT)
____________________________Gail -:- Candles & Trinkets -:- Tues, May 25, 1999 at 18:11:49 (EDT)
______________________________Mary M -:- Candles & Trinkets -:- Tues, May 25, 1999 at 18:42:15 (EDT)
____________________________Rob -:- Candles & Trinkets -:- Tues, May 25, 1999 at 18:14:19 (EDT)
______________________________Mary M -:- Candles & Trinkets -:- Tues, May 25, 1999 at 18:40:08 (EDT)
________________________________rob -:- Candles & Trinkets -:- Tues, May 25, 1999 at 20:17:25 (EDT)
__________________________Liz -:- D.L.M . & Scientology -:- Tues, May 25, 1999 at 23:55:06 (EDT)
____________________________Jim -:- Don't scapegoat! -:- Wed, May 26, 1999 at 00:43:11 (EDT)
______________________________Rob -:- Don't scapegoat! -:- Wed, May 26, 1999 at 00:56:53 (EDT)
________________________________Mike -:- What's a prisoner? :-) (nt) -:- Wed, May 26, 1999 at 16:12:22 (EDT)
______________________Peter howie -:- So, I'm amused! -:- Tues, May 25, 1999 at 20:58:24 (EDT)
________________________Catweasel -:- So, I'm amused! -:- Wed, May 26, 1999 at 05:34:13 (EDT)
__________________Gail -:- So, who is this one guy? -:- Mon, May 24, 1999 at 23:35:40 (EDT)
____AHA! -:- Piss off and dont come back! -:- Sun, May 23, 1999 at 12:26:38 (EDT)
______Catweasel -:- AHA! MINDGAMES! -:- Mon, May 24, 1999 at 07:36:20 (EDT)
________AHA -:- AHA! MINDGAMES! -:- Mon, May 24, 1999 at 23:29:05 (EDT)
__________Catweasel -:- AHA! MINDGAMES! -:- Tues, May 25, 1999 at 03:26:59 (EDT)
____________Ahhhhh -:- Stupidity incarnate! (nt) -:- Tues, May 25, 1999 at 12:58:24 (EDT)
__I KNOW -:- Don't Lecture Me, Nil! -:- Sun, May 23, 1999 at 12:08:55 (EDT)
____Gail -:- Don't Lecture Me, Nil! -:- Sun, May 23, 1999 at 12:22:59 (EDT)
____Catweasel -:- Septic tanks andGrotty POMS -:- Mon, May 24, 1999 at 07:40:15 (EDT)
__Nil -:- Don't Lecture Me, Nil! -:- Sun, May 23, 1999 at 15:42:03 (EDT)
____A Sir Dave of the World -:- You what? -:- Sun, May 23, 1999 at 15:56:36 (EDT)
______Nil -:- You what? -:- Sun, May 23, 1999 at 16:25:35 (EDT)
________Jim -:- Thanks again, Nil -:- Sun, May 23, 1999 at 16:34:15 (EDT)
__________Nil -:- Thanks again, Nil -:- Sun, May 23, 1999 at 17:03:17 (EDT)
__________Catweasel -:- Thanks again, Nil -:- Mon, May 24, 1999 at 07:55:23 (EDT)
____________Gail -:- Oh, Catweasel -:- Mon, May 24, 1999 at 08:35:41 (EDT)
______________catweasel -:- Gail your so frail -:- Mon, May 24, 1999 at 10:19:35 (EDT)
____________Pauline Premie -:- Thank you Catweasel -:- Mon, May 24, 1999 at 12:52:50 (EDT)
____________Nil -:- Thanks again, Nil -:- Tues, May 25, 1999 at 16:35:48 (EDT)
______________YUP -:- I concur, Nil. Jim is a smart -:- Tues, May 25, 1999 at 17:14:06 (EDT)
________A Sir Dave of the world -:- What do you know? -:- Sun, May 23, 1999 at 16:48:19 (EDT)
__________Nil -:- What do you know? -:- Sun, May 23, 1999 at 17:04:53 (EDT)
____________A Sir Dave character -:- You're right Nil -:- Sun, May 23, 1999 at 17:16:31 (EDT)
______________A Sir Dave type of fool -:- But if you're so smart, Nil -:- Sun, May 23, 1999 at 17:44:17 (EDT)
____________Jerry -:- Let me explain -:- Sun, May 23, 1999 at 18:07:18 (EDT)
______________A Premie -:- Let me explain -:- Sun, May 23, 1999 at 18:29:24 (EDT)
________________Pauline Premie -:- Let me explain -:- Sun, May 23, 1999 at 23:51:46 (EDT)
__________________Mike -:- Hey, Pauline -:- Mon, May 24, 1999 at 17:27:48 (EDT)
__________________Mike -:- Actually, I prefer -:- Mon, May 24, 1999 at 17:32:56 (EDT)
____________________Pauline Premie -:- Actually, I prefer -:- Mon, May 24, 1999 at 18:16:34 (EDT)
______________________Mike -:- Actually, I prefer -:- Mon, May 24, 1999 at 18:32:06 (EDT)
________________Sid Nigh -:- Let me explain -:- Mon, May 24, 1999 at 08:18:57 (EDT)
__________________Tami R -:- Yu tel them -:- Mon, May 24, 1999 at 12:33:47 (EDT)
____Jim -:- Thanks Nil -:- Sun, May 23, 1999 at 16:13:36 (EDT)
______Nil -:- Thanks Nil -:- Sun, May 23, 1999 at 16:58:43 (EDT)
________A Sir Dave type person -:- Hey that's a good one -:- Sun, May 23, 1999 at 17:07:30 (EDT)
__________Nil -:- Hey that's a good one -:- Sun, May 23, 1999 at 17:13:11 (EDT)
____________Gail -:- Maharaji said, 'It is physica -:- Sun, May 23, 1999 at 17:23:35 (EDT)
______________Nil -:- Maharaji said, 'It is physica -:- Sun, May 23, 1999 at 17:30:32 (EDT)
________________Mike -:- BWAH HA HA HA HA HA HA -:- Mon, May 24, 1999 at 18:13:37 (EDT)
__________________Gail -:- BWAH HA HA HA HA HA HA -:- Tues, May 25, 1999 at 18:17:30 (EDT)
________Gail -:- Thanks Nil--but this is our -:- Sun, May 23, 1999 at 17:19:58 (EDT)
__________Nil -:- Thanks Nil--but this is our -:- Sun, May 23, 1999 at 17:25:39 (EDT)
________Jim -:- Not quite -:- Sun, May 23, 1999 at 17:44:34 (EDT)
__________Nil -:- Not quite -:- Tues, May 25, 1999 at 12:44:05 (EDT)
____________Jim -:- Nope -:- Tues, May 25, 1999 at 16:50:16 (EDT)
______________Nil -:- Nope -:- Tues, May 25, 1999 at 19:29:43 (EDT)
__________Nil -:- Not quite -:- Tues, May 25, 1999 at 12:55:10 (EDT)
____________Copta' Crash -:- Not quite -:- Tues, May 25, 1999 at 13:33:56 (EDT)
______________Nil -:- Not quite -:- Tues, May 25, 1999 at 16:14:34 (EDT)
________________Copta' Buzz -:- chastened by Nil :( -:- Tues, May 25, 1999 at 20:51:07 (EDT)
__________________Nil -:- chastened by Nil :( -:- Tues, May 25, 1999 at 22:32:58 (EDT)
____Mike -:- Huh? -:- Mon, May 24, 1999 at 17:17:02 (EDT)

temp -:- chinese whispers -:- Sat, May 22, 1999 at 21:18:02 (EDT)
__Runamok -:- chinese whispers -:- Sun, May 23, 1999 at 01:37:30 (EDT)
__I KNow -:- chinese whispers -:- Sun, May 23, 1999 at 12:01:12 (EDT)

A Friend -:- All the answers are below -:- Sat, May 22, 1999 at 20:37:40 (EDT)


Date: Sun, May 23, 1999 at 03:47:08 (EDT)
From: sylvestre
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: ego blow
Message:
with one current premie I know, it feels like she cannot handle the blow to her ego to admit that she has not been entirely 'in the right' in her continued involvement with the guru.I think it is super scary for her to admit any judgement error on her part that could be so profound. it would take a kind of surrender to imperfection that has not been modeled to her by the guru. it is as though her ego is so taut with control, that she has decided she will never lose it. what her rigidity must mask,I can only theorize on. standing firm for her is somehow proof. it is warped, as are much of our more secular realities sometimes.I certainly don't want to come across as holier than thou. it is just that I am fascinated with the obstinance and beligerance I sense in this person's need to hold tight to her guru. shaky foundation it seems. shaky and scary. clutching. I am trying to understand this person- but feel lots of limits in her character, the stubbornness. It is frustrating. but so are many things. reality. cults. quite a picture show. I am quite impressed with the letting go so many of you have done. it takes real cajones and guts to realize that counter kind of surrender. much respect. and I mean that. s
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Date: Sun, May 23, 1999 at 04:15:59 (EDT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: david.studio57@btinternet.com
To: sylvestre
Subject: ego blow
Message:
Thanks for that. It is one of the great fallacies in Maharaji's world that people 'get out of their minds'. All they do is get instilled in them a more rigid ego. Such rigidity is a disadvantage and it can blind one to the reality of the situation. I think that it takes time to shed such an ego and since people become set in their ways around middle-age, some people may never truly relinquish a premie ego which has been instilled over decades.

I think a person has got to WANT to change in order to change. If they become heartilly sick of Maharaji's trip then a change can come about.
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Date: Sun, May 23, 1999 at 07:24:44 (EDT)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Sir Dave & sylvestre
Subject: ego blow
Message:
So true, the rigidity of thinking in premies and the fallacy of letting go of the ego. In fact this is exactly what I had to actively do in therapy when I left M--I had to look at how I had built up a whole model of thought around M and knowledge, and an identity as a devotee that was rigid and NOT very spiritual or human. It was a model that puts people and things in little boxes--in their Mind, not in their Mind, has knowledge, doesn't have knowledge, etc, that elevates the devotee &M and disdains all others.
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Date: Sun, May 23, 1999 at 12:14:36 (EDT)
From: WOW
Email: None
To: sylvestre
Subject: ego blow
Message:
And we all admire your spelling skills!

Oh, by the way....For Sale- 1987 Chevy Impala, runs smooth, low miles, clean, once owned by a little old lady. See the web master of this sight for details.
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Date: Tues, May 25, 1999 at 01:37:52 (EDT)
From: sylvestre
Email: None
To: WOW
Subject: ego blow
Message:
I just looked up beligerent- and atleastcan improve on that oneguess I need to want to change, and be open tochallengesand constructive criticism if I want to practice whatI preach.asfor cars- that went over my head, but I won't letmyego get in the way of admitting that!sps. here is to your beligerence!
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Date: Sun, May 23, 1999 at 01:46:18 (EDT)
From: Walter
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: M's Schedule
Message:
Just called the national information line (818-889-0500)

Maharaji will be having a two day program in Miami May 29th and 30th and a two day program in Quebec June 14th and 15th. There will be knowledge sessions at both locations for aspirants on the second day. He's also in Argentina on June 5th and 6th.

Both North American programs will be sattilite broadcast to local communities that have the equipment to receive the signal.
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Date: Sat, May 22, 1999 at 22:04:30 (EDT)
From: Gail
Email: None
To: Nil
Subject: Don't Lecture Me, Nil!
Message:
I admit that I don't want this stuff spread to even one more person. I would hardly say that calling the library constitutes sabotage. The library should know who it's hosting. Why is MJ having people use these innocuous names? What is wrong with saying that it is a video of Maharaji's to propagate his meditation and himself. I always hated the secrecy. If this is such a great thing, why hide? Why not shout it on the streets?

I am doing premies a favour by saving them money. Renting satsang venues is not an honest service. LONDON RESOURCES is not a legitimate group. It is deceitful. The premies, me included, have been sculking around for years.

In case you didn't go to Amaroo and haven't read this before:

I was greeted at Amaroo '97 with: When speaking to outsiders, do not refer to Maharaji's land as THE LAND. Call it the Ivory Rock Convention Centre. Otherwise, people might think this land belongs to Maharaji. Actually, many investors own this property (ya--like Marolyn, and other trusted devotees). Also, do not say who the speaker is. Maharaji is just one of the many speakers who come here (the other speakers are the drones who assemble the port-o-lets and kitchens). Jan McGregor gave a wonderful interview of nonspeak to the press. They roasted her and MJ afterward. Everyone except the cult members and recruits knows its a dirty little cult. CHEAT AND DECEIT? I'll say.
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Date: Sun, May 23, 1999 at 04:00:19 (EDT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: Gail
Subject: Don't Lecture Me, Nil!
Message:
That's some great examples of the parrots feeding each other their lines, Gail. What gets me when I read this forum is that the premies who post here don't realise they are just acting like parrots. All the words they use are Margarini's and I can't understand why they cannot invent some of their own phrases.

I guess if all you do is watch the same old boring videos of the same old boring ex-Lord liar, then his phrases stick in your brain and your imagination dies.
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Date: Sun, May 23, 1999 at 04:43:01 (EDT)
From: Catweasel
Email: NoFoolLikeAnOldFool
To: Gail
Subject: Piss off and dont come back!
Message:
How little you know and how obvious is your agenda!If you investigated the facts, as the press in Austalia eventually had to,you wouldnt be so cocky.Suffice to say that if you havent looked up the deed/s of Title in Oz youre just talking shit.And as any Aussie will tell you Queensland is the red-neck capital of the Southern Hemispere;cross the border and put your watch back Twenty years!Anywhere else in Australia the press wouldnt have been interested in your spurious half truths and hearsay nonsense generated here on the cult of X site!!!
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Date: Sun, May 23, 1999 at 08:20:02 (EDT)
From: Gail
Email: None
To: Catweasel
Subject: Piss off and dont come back!
Message:
Where did the money come from to buy Amaroo? Did it come from those investors? No! It came from schmucks like you and me. Regardless of whose name is on the deed, the premies worldwide bought that land. We are the investors.

MJ has worked out ways to use everything to his advantage and minimize tax obligations. He's got a good gig. I have no problem with him doing well. It's the way he's done it. Movie stars get millions for each movie; however, I don't have to go watch their movies. In the case of Guru Margarine, I had no choice once I believed his lie that he was the Lord.

Why the need to keep in touch with him (so he can keep his greasy fingers on your wallet)? He wamts a lifelong commitment from you, so he can control you to satisfy himself. Look at him. He has the biggest ego of anyone I ever knew. When he said he knew people with big enough egos to spread over North America and Europe to, he was talking about himself. He has an ego the size of a small planet.
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Date: Sun, May 23, 1999 at 10:04:49 (EDT)
From: Catweasel
Email: You're out of order
To: Gail
Subject: X Propaganda INCORRECT
Message:
One guy financed most of Amaroo.I know this to be fact. He is from Oz.Dont flatter yourself,one individual put the show on the road.You've been duped Gail by your X buddies.Conned by their continual carping ,their rhetoric and their lies.Never trust crusaders they bend the truth to suit their own ends.I'm not just saying this to slag off at your post,its fact.You could count the X's over here with your fucked up conspirital paranoia on one hand.And that would be the one clapping
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Date: Sun, May 23, 1999 at 20:49:14 (EDT)
From: Rob
Email: None
To: Catweasel
Subject: X Propaganda INCORRECT
Message:
'You could count the X's over here with your fucked up conspirital paranoia on one hand'

I think the word you're looking for is conspiratorial.

ps Exactly when did Maharaji ask you to argue his case for him?
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Date: Mon, May 24, 1999 at 07:32:51 (EDT)
From: Catweasel
Email: Love?
To: Rob
Subject: X Propaganda INCORRECT
Message:
Never Did.When did he ask you to correct me?
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Date: Mon, May 24, 1999 at 08:13:15 (EDT)
From: Sid Nigh
Email: None
To: Rob
Subject: X Propaganda INCORRECT
Message:
P.S More like conspiritual!!
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Date: Mon, May 24, 1999 at 10:53:06 (EDT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Catweasel
Subject: So, who is this one guy?
Message:
If you KNOW this to be a fact, then who is this one guy that financed the whole operation? That shouldn't be any big secret, now should it? (Unless he has something nefarious to hide, of course).
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Date: Mon, May 24, 1999 at 11:00:43 (EDT)
From: Sid Nigh
Email: None
To: Mike
Subject: So, who is this one guy?
Message:
Oh my gosh Mike that would be good wouldn't it, but you'll just have to remain comfortable with abusing me because I'm not Tellin'!!!Suffice to say its no real secret.
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Date: Mon, May 24, 1999 at 18:17:12 (EDT)
From: Rob
Email: None
To: Sid Nigh
Subject: So, who is this one guy?
Message:
Besides, what would you do with the information anyway? Consider this, would you really want to piss off a guy with that amount of financial clout? I'm talking lawyers here.....
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Date: Mon, May 24, 1999 at 18:59:40 (EDT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Rob
Subject: Sure, why not?
Message:
I mean, I got nothin' better to do..... :-)
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Date: Mon, May 24, 1999 at 19:02:56 (EDT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Rob
Subject: So, who is this one guy?
Message:
Consider this, would you really want to piss off a guy with that amount of financial clout? I'm talking lawyers here.....

Sounds like you could be talking about M, himself, Rob.
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Date: Mon, May 24, 1999 at 19:40:30 (EDT)
From: Copta' Buzz
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: So, who is this one guy?
Message:
Mahahaha may be a dummy, but the sharks around him are not. He's the cash cow, has been for years, ever since the Mataji era. They'll protect his fat ass well and milk those big droopy tits of his for every drop...

He's a robot programmed to run this particular scam. Sorta an 'idiot savant,'' with this singular talent for bullshitting people.

Just my two cents, fellas.
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Date: Mon, May 24, 1999 at 20:25:58 (EDT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Copta' Buzz
Subject: It's a thought
Message:
I always found it interesting how Bob Mischler (that how you say it?) found the gall to tell M to tone down the LOTU act. I mean, didn't Bob think M was LOTU? It makes you wonder what goes on in high places behind closed doors.

You're not the first one I've heard suggest that Mataji was the brains behind the initial operation. I wouldn't be surprised.
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Date: Tues, May 25, 1999 at 12:46:56 (EDT)
From: Copta' Buzz
Email: None
To: all
Subject: graphics for my post
Message:
parental discretion advised
Gotta love 'em!
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Date: Tues, May 25, 1999 at 13:23:52 (EDT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Copta' Buzz
Subject: BWAH HA HA HA HA
Message:
CB, you definitely made my day......THANKS! :-)
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Date: Tues, May 25, 1999 at 17:50:54 (EDT)
From: Mary M
Email: None
To: Mike
Subject: Hey It's the new Invitation
Message:
OK guys, enough already.

Didn't anyone tell you why Durga Ji gave up her title? Turns out that Boob-a-Raj-Ji is experiencing some odd side effects caused by the toxic spills in Kississimmee.....What is the world coming to?

All I can say is it's a good thing he's not a Krishna or he'd be one hurtin bubby with all that jumpin up and down!

Luv,
Mare
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Date: Tues, May 25, 1999 at 14:40:43 (EDT)
From: Depressed
Email: None
To: Copta' Buzz
Subject: graphics for my post
Message:
Thanks. I just laughed out loud.
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Date: Tues, May 25, 1999 at 16:29:55 (EDT)
From: Roger E. Drek
Email: None
To: Copta' Buzz
Subject: I'm going back to Maharaji!
Message:
That's it! I'm outta here. I had forgotten just how beautiful Maharaji really is.

All I get here on this Forum is this lousy yellow background and too many words. At least Maharaji in his perfect embodiment reminds me of the mother I never had.

Now, permanently enshrined and plagiarized at the Picture Gallery at Roger's House of Maharaji Drek
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Date: Tues, May 25, 1999 at 17:24:44 (EDT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Roger E. Drek
Subject: Dance, dance, dance
Message:
Jeez, that's a great picture.... :-)
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Date: Tues, May 25, 1999 at 17:25:54 (EDT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Roger
Subject: I wanna get close to you
Message:
but you gotta get a boob-bob, first......he he he he he
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Date: Tues, May 25, 1999 at 17:27:13 (EDT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Roger
Subject: Well, hello Dolly...
Message:
Parten, that is.... OK OK, I'll stop now. My apologies to all the ladies on the forum.
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Date: Tues, May 25, 1999 at 13:23:10 (EDT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Copta' Buzz
Subject: renaissance man
Message:
The BM a singular talent you say? I happen to know he is an inventor with a (patent pending) a poet, a musician, a pilot, an antique automobile enthusiast, a ''successful investor'' and lots of other things ...I know. I was at his website. Oh, and, the hard working 'Boss' of a lucrative family business.
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Date: Mon, May 24, 1999 at 21:13:33 (EDT)
From: Rob
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: So, who is this one guy?
Message:
Not in this instance, as it happens. I just couldn't really see the use of knowing who Maharaji's major sponsors are if you didn't plan to act on the information in some way. It's one thing to yap about people in the confines of a Forum like this, at least, I'm assumingwe're all immune from libel suits here, but I personally would think twice before taking it out IRL.

Or am I being way too serious? Go on, whack me! I can take it!
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Date: Mon, May 24, 1999 at 21:26:04 (EDT)
From: Mary
Email: None
To: Rob
Subject: So, who is this one guy?
Message:
Hey Rob,

I think Cat offered to contribute to anyone who wants to sue me for libel.

Another time this guy Ernie wanted to 'take me out' . Had to turn him down as I was busy that evening;-)

That's about it on the libel end.

xo,
Mary
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Date: Mon, May 24, 1999 at 21:33:23 (EDT)
From: Rob
Email: None
To: Mary
Subject: So, who is this one guy?
Message:
this guy Ernie wanted to 'take me out'

Sure he wasn't just asking for a date?:)

Seriously though, I have very little knowledge of the law, and I often wondered about some of the stuff we all write. I guess it's covered in the 'Freedom of Speech' deal?
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Date: Mon, May 24, 1999 at 21:48:54 (EDT)
From: Mary M
Email: None
To: Rob
Subject: So, who is this one guy?
Message:
You got it Rob,

The Freedom of Speech deal at least in the US is staunchly defended particularly when it comes to the Internet. Check out the Electronic Frontier Foundation's site.

Sometimes I wonder if it's one big 'Lord of the Flies' experiment.

Gotta run now!

Mare
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Date: Mon, May 24, 1999 at 22:15:00 (EDT)
From: peter howie
Email: None
To: Rob
Subject: So, who is this one guy?
Message:
How does naming a person or organisation who owns a piece of property constitute a situation of libel.

It is fairly straight forward to do the searches if you have the time and inclination. The local council will have the name of the organisation or owner who purchased the property. If it is a company there will be public records. If the company is transnational then it will be more tricky to find the actual owners.

I once did some work at the proprty for a group that was utilising it for a conference - tthen called the Ivory Rock Conferecen Centre. The space and time worked quite well for them. The folks that were running the property were most anxious that I didn't ask them any loud embarassing questions such as 'So how is the Boss?'. They didn't want the clients to know who really controlled the property or what its real purpose was.

I didn't - but I was highly surprised that those types of stories still persisted. The story they had then was thet the land was owned by a group of 'investors' - though antone could see that no 'investor' was ever going to get a 'real world' return on their money. Stories - lies?

I remember one instructor telling a news reporter that the guy(MJ) in the helicopter was from Seaworld(circa 1981). It was most unamuseing to then see the lie uncovered on the evening news. As I recall during that visit Maharaj Ji had a full cavity search as one of the premie security personel had a previous situation involving importation of drugs. So the plane and all aboard had the full drill from customs. Nothing found. Very embarassed security stuff - you know the old - 'lets create a private security firm to guard the plane - woo woo - secret agent stuuf' - what a balls up.

Cheers
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Date: Mon, May 24, 1999 at 23:42:04 (EDT)
From: Gail
Email: None
To: peter howie
Subject: So, I'm amused!
Message:
Thanks for the tidbits. Did the people who used the conference centre ever find out anything about the cult? Did the drones who worked there ever find out you were a premie?
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Date: Mon, May 24, 1999 at 23:57:16 (EDT)
From: Gail
Email: None
To: Rob
Subject: Rob, you are delightful, but
Message:
your fangs are beginning to show. Law suits? You'd think we called MJ a child molester or something. Nope! Like I said before, I know who the investors are--the wee premie drones like me.

Think about what he collects for a trip to India. If each person gives only five rupees (X 200 000), it adds up to a lot of loot. Of course, then there is the obligation to the western world to help support India, Nepal, Africa, etc., but ONLY IF YOU WANT TO. Don't forget the shopping bags of money--I helped to collect the little envelopes once.

It sounds to me, Rob, that you are involved with MJ up to the eyeballs. There is nothing wrong with that, but don't think for a moment you can preclude the truth. I have already been lied to for a quarter of a century, almost (24.5 years). Others who are still involved are sick of being fleeced, too. Why not offer a year without projects. It might improve the turnout.

In fact, why not take lesson from other new, successful cults. Get people to pay for weekend or weeklong courses up front. Offer them the option of returning for additional courses or reinforcement. Give them a discount if they bring new recruits.

You could always hire sales people to prospect for the cult. If I didn't have any morals, I'd help you out. I'M THINKING OF STARTING A CULT OF MY OWN.
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Date: Tues, May 25, 1999 at 17:28:07 (EDT)
From: Rob
Email: None
To: Gail
Subject: Fangs a lot
Message:
Hey, be gentle with me, today's my birthday!!

Oh I know, I got my wicked side :[ but would you prefer to talk with some mushy saint? - parrot, I think is the latest buzz word.

I haven't made a secret of my relationship with Maharaji, it's just, I dunno, the money thing keeps cropping up like a broken record. I said right from the gitgo that I felt like an anomoly, and money is one of the areas where I think I differ from a lot of mi peers. (that was an anagram, in case you missed it!)

I throw my bit in the pot every month, but it is no more than I can comfortably afford & it's with my eyes wide open - yes, I know about the plane, the yacht, the land, the cars - but it doesn't phase me one iota. I also know what it costs to stage an event, and to take it around the world. I get something in return.

I've met Bill Gates, know about his 18,000 sq ft house, with its $million worth of video gear etc etc. So what? I bought Windows 98. It works...sometimes...so I am in part contributing to his wealth. The difference for me is I have the choice of contributing or not.

Let me offer a little more background on me. Before I got into Knowledge in 1976, I had previously been caught up in Scientology.
Boy, you want to know about cults? Check that one out! I mean I was literally a prisoner for about 6 months. Cleaned my bank account out, alienated all my friends - the works. When I finally got away, they sent heavies round my parents' house. Fortunately my father's a big guy and he beat the crap out of them. Anyway, the point is, when I got involved with premies a year or so later, I was very cautious of the whole cult thing. Once burned...

I clung on to just being human, I still do. I'm not perfect at it either. I'll say stuff here which will get people riled, but that's the nature of a Forum. I try not to insult or demean, and when I do hurt someone(cf 'I wish' thread) I'm the first to apologise.

I once considered starting my own religion in the style of the TBN bible-bashers. I've been behind the scenes at those events too. Buckets of money? Try wheelbarrows! I actually saw a room backstage at a Bennie Hinn event where the serfs were literally knee-deep in cash. Then I got thrown out! If you want to get rich, Gail, forget cults, they're really passe. Get on the Jesus bandwagon - I'll join up with ya!
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Date: Tues, May 25, 1999 at 17:52:03 (EDT)
From: Gail
Email: None
To: Rob
Subject: Fangs a lot--You're quite the
Message:
character. I wish my old premie friends could be like you are. We could laugh about it all. I really miss them, but ... Good grief! Some of the things I have done and said!

Just last year as I was sculking over to see MJ at Amaroo, the supply teacher came to my house to get the preps. He asked me why I was sneaking off to Australia. I finally admitted that MJ was the Lord. When he called, I had no choice but to go. He said that it was funny he hadn't heard of him. He's a bible thumper, and I think he figured god should have come to get him first.

I hope I never run into that teacher again! Still, it's all funny in addition to being embarrassing. I'm sure you've had your share of laughs as well.

You seem to have a more sensible attitude toward everthing than I did/have. I seem to press the throttle to the limit. I can't believe you were into Scientology and made the leap to MJ. Obviously, you knew where the brakes were. Perhaps your earlier experience helped you to be more reserved and to use your critical thinking skills. Maybe that was your sunscreen for the poisonous UV rays (beliefs) that were circulating back then. All I know for sure is that I ended up with a lot of concepts for a conceptless experience.
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Date: Wed, May 26, 1999 at 00:01:39 (EDT)
From: Liz
Email: None
To: Gail
Subject: email address for Gail
Message:
Hi Gail,

Get my email address from Katie if you'd like to write to me.

I would like that as we both seem to be very recent leavers.

Best Wishes,

Liz
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Date: Tues, May 25, 1999 at 18:02:40 (EDT)
From: Mary M
Email: None
To: Rob
Subject: Candles & Trinkets
Message:
Happy Birthday Rob!

You know what? You could help me out in a wee side show I've got going.

Whenever one of the Big 6 consulting firms comes a wooin me I let them know I won't even consider speaking to them unless I get at least 5 tee-shirts. When I get the tee shirts (note: always request X-Large) I then give them out to my 'forgotten homeless' friends.

I could only weasle Arthur Anderson out of two last week but hey they look good on 'Man Who Talks to The Sun' and 'Goat Man'.

So keep this little ministry in mind as you travel about. I'm not kidding. T-shirts, nylon jackets, golf-shirts... I'm sure you know the spiel. We don't really need any key rings. That would be somewhat of an insult. Oh, I almost forgot. If you stay in hotels and are on the Concierge floor grab the soaps and shampoos. Local Hospices are desperate for these items.

Happy Birthday Once Again,

Luv,
Mare
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Date: Tues, May 25, 1999 at 18:11:49 (EDT)
From: Gail
Email: freedom@gtn.net
To: Mary M
Subject: Candles & Trinkets
Message:
I don't know why Rob is here. Maybe he has been asked to check out the site and provide a more tactful premie voice. Maybe he wants to sue us. Maybe he's just plain curious. Maybe he has some doubts of his own. He may be a PAM, but at least he's willing to laugh at RT's song, so he can't be all bad. Can't we wait until next week to start picking on him!
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Date: Tues, May 25, 1999 at 18:42:15 (EDT)
From: Mary M
Email: None
To: Gail
Subject: Candles & Trinkets
Message:
Hi Gail,

I'm not sure either. I'll have to give him the benefit of the doubt if he comes through on the toiletries for the hospice;-)

Ya gotta luv a guy like that.

xo,
Mare
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Date: Tues, May 25, 1999 at 18:14:19 (EDT)
From: Rob
Email: None
To: Mary M
Subject: Candles & Trinkets
Message:
I just took a load to the local thrift store, but yes, I can do that. I got about 9 or 10 'Microsoft' shirts, few 'NFL Volunteer' and some 'Jesus Is Lord' (think I'll wear one to the set up at the Miami event, see how long it takes the goons to throw me out!)

And...did you know that recently Visions were giving away T's with the 'enjoyinglife.com' logo on the back, one with every mail order? Maybe they'll give you their leftover stock.

Got tons of soaps, shampoos, shower caps and sewing kits, too!
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Date: Tues, May 25, 1999 at 18:40:08 (EDT)
From: Mary M
Email: mem_mcgraw@msn.com
To: Rob
Subject: Candles & Trinkets
Message:
Rob,

Wow!!!! Now I am impressed!

I knew you were a concierge type guy. It'll be your birthday gift to the world!

If you're serious about donating the items let me know. If you want I can get them to the hospices and shelters or I can give you the addresses.

Thanks a bunch!

Luv,
Mary
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Date: Tues, May 25, 1999 at 20:17:25 (EDT)
From: rob
Email: None
To: Mary M
Subject: Candles & Trinkets
Message:
Be a good excuse to have a clearout. I have a few places nearby I can take them to, Samaritans, Red Cross, and a SHelter, so I'll swing by when I have a chance.
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Date: Tues, May 25, 1999 at 23:55:06 (EDT)
From: Liz
Email: None
To: Rob
Subject: D.L.M . & Scientology
Message:
Hi Rob,

Welcome & Happy Birthday! I like your honesty and sense of humour. Guess what - we were both in the same two cults - geminis eh?

I've never considered myself particularly stupid until I got on this site. Now I'm questioning every thing I ever did.

There are lots of well-meaning people on this site as well as the 'nabbers' the ones that latch like leeches as soon as you mention that you are not quite 100% certain that you are an ex yet.

Enough to turn any well-intentioned exer back to the fold.

All the best to those of us - including me, who are a little mixed up and depressed right now. Hang in the Ex-site no matter who tries to throw you out!

Best Wishes,

Liz
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Date: Wed, May 26, 1999 at 00:43:11 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Liz
Subject: Don't scapegoat!
Message:
There are lots of well-meaning people on this site as well as the 'nabbers' the ones that latch like leeches as soon as you mention that you are not quite 100% certain that you are an ex yet.

Enough to turn any well-intentioned exer back to the fold.


Liz,

I'd urge you to really take a look at this idea. Are you really saying that people will believe in Maharaji or not on such a superficial basis? That one's understanding is so hostage to others' expectations? I don't myself.

Sure, a lot of us have antenna extended all the way when it comes to defening Maharaji here. But what would you expect? Indifference? Please don't scapegoat your own confusion, if you're experiencing it, on others.

Sorry for the lecture. Just rash ol' me, eh? :)
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Date: Wed, May 26, 1999 at 00:56:53 (EDT)
From: Rob
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Don't scapegoat!
Message:
Jeez, you don't take prisoners, do you!
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Date: Wed, May 26, 1999 at 16:12:22 (EDT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Rob
Subject: What's a prisoner? :-) (nt)
Message:
rhetorical question..... HEY....you aren't supposed to be reading this! NO TEXT!
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Date: Tues, May 25, 1999 at 20:58:24 (EDT)
From: Peter howie
Email: None
To: Gail
Subject: So, I'm amused!
Message:
I don't think the people using the centre worked it out - but why would they be interested anyway - they had beter things to chew on with their international conference going on. Maybe a couple of hundred people.

The 'drones' definitely knew I was an ex or maybe just a lapsed - I had worked with many of them in the heydays. They were quite anxious that I would let the cat out of the bag with their clients. It was quite interesting as I had a different level of credibility because I came with the client group. This meant they couldn't treat me as an ex and they had to be couteous, which they were.

Cheers

Peter
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Date: Wed, May 26, 1999 at 05:34:13 (EDT)
From: Catweasel
Email: None
To: Peter howie
Subject: So, I'm amused!
Message:
Whats the big deal Howie,we knew who you were.Your not that interesting really.Painters are all like that -flat,wet and too many drips.
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Date: Mon, May 24, 1999 at 23:35:40 (EDT)
From: Gail
Email: None
To: Rob
Subject: So, who is this one guy?
Message:
You can't get sued for what is said on the net. Show me a court in the land who wouldn't take my side over the big cult machine's. I think we should start a class action, personally! I am ok. A lot of people who got involved have totally opted out of society and their reintegration is very unlikely.
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Date: Sun, May 23, 1999 at 12:26:38 (EDT)
From: AHA!
Email: None
To: Catweasel
Subject: Piss off and dont come back!
Message:
Thanks catweasel for that info on Queensland.
Surely there are some groups that will be interested
in knowing what the 'ivory rock' deception is really all about.
You have taken a wonderful first step in stopping this menace.
Congradulations!
All the repercussions can be safely ascribed to you and your
participation on the forum.
Your service will now come back to you a thousandfold.
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Date: Mon, May 24, 1999 at 07:36:20 (EDT)
From: Catweasel
Email: MINDGAMES
To: AHA!
Subject: AHA! MINDGAMES!
Message:
Oh yeah, like I'm quaking .
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Date: Mon, May 24, 1999 at 23:29:05 (EDT)
From: AHA
Email: None
To: Catweasel
Subject: AHA! MINDGAMES!
Message:
Oh, you dont mind causeing the locals to know about all
the details?
You spend your days mowing the lawn there but your nights
typeing frenzied love letters here and now you have
put us in touch with your neighbors-soon.
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Date: Tues, May 25, 1999 at 03:26:59 (EDT)
From: Catweasel
Email: None
To: AHA
Subject: AHA! MINDGAMES!
Message:
Strange Person you are!Hardly call my posts love letters!
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Date: Tues, May 25, 1999 at 12:58:24 (EDT)
From: Ahhhhh
Email: None
To: Catweasel
Subject: Stupidity incarnate! (nt)
Message:
If you are reading this, then you really deserve that moniker hairball!
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Date: Sun, May 23, 1999 at 12:08:55 (EDT)
From: I KNOW
Email: None
To: ALL
Subject: Don't Lecture Me, Nil!
Message:
My very reliable inside sources tell me that there is a master plan in the works to take over Australia, and turn it into the first all premie country. They must be very coy as to not startle the natives. You know how messy that could get. So hurry everyone....warn the world. The guru people are coming!!! ARGHHHHH!!! God help us please!!!! Dont you see....only this web site can save us all!! Thank you, Oh spreaders of the truth.
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Date: Sun, May 23, 1999 at 12:22:59 (EDT)
From: Gail
Email: None
To: I KNOW
Subject: Don't Lecture Me, Nil!
Message:
Chuckle, Chuckle. A master plan to take over Australia, and turn it into the first all premie country would never work. They already know about the guru people. Read your newspapers.

How much has your community grown in the last 28 years. Please! The whole process is just like the movie 'Pleasantville.' The major portion of recruits will come from third world countries where the people don't know any better. That's why MJ can't promote himself like he used to. Nobody's buying that trip anymore.

I do see....this web site saved me from the cult's clutches and I was a die-hard schmuck. You are most welcome for the help. Posters on this site are the spreaders of the truth as far as Guru Margarine and his cult are concerned. It is the only place premies can come to voice disgust, complaints, doubts or to LEARN MORE about what is wrong with their thinking.
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Date: Mon, May 24, 1999 at 07:40:15 (EDT)
From: Catweasel
Email: YOU WISH!
To: I KNOW
Subject: Septic tanks andGrotty POMS
Message:
Up to your neck in crap!
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Date: Sun, May 23, 1999 at 15:42:03 (EDT)
From: Nil
Email: None
To: Gail
Subject: Don't Lecture Me, Nil!
Message:
Gail, Knowledge is as valid for the people putting on those events as it was for you at one time. The thirst you once had to know something deeper about your existence is just as real for the people coming to the video as it was for you. There IS, contrary to the evolutionists and nihilists in the crowd, a source of perfection rooted in existence. Because you choose to listen to the postulations of a bunch of die-hard critics of Maharaj... you believe he has done you wrong. Well, he has never done me wrong. He continues to show me perfection, and by so doing, quench my deeper thirst. If not with him, then where you gonna go to get that done?

My humble opinion Gail: if you want to be an obstruction to people who want to hear about Maharaji, it will not serve your best interests as a person. If you are going to follow the advice of the Sir Dave's of the world, find out what he'll do to bail you out if I'm right.
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Date: Sun, May 23, 1999 at 15:56:36 (EDT)
From: A Sir Dave of the World
Email: david.studio57@btinternet.com
To: Nil
Subject: You what?
Message:
What advice have I ever given which one would need bailing out from? I don't advocate violence or illegal activities, unlike a certain imperfect master I could mention.

The 'knowledge' you so reverently talk about is just four meditation techniques. Now of all the people who received this so called knowledge, how many found something deeper by using them and following Maharaji? Not many, I'll be bound because Maharaji stands like an obstical in anyone's path of self discovery. The reason why people who received the knowledge left in droves is because Maharaji's path is a dead end to Nowheresville.

And God, if I hear any more premies parrotting Maharaji's use of the word 'thirst' I think I'll scream!
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Date: Sun, May 23, 1999 at 16:25:35 (EDT)
From: Nil
Email: None
To: A Sir Dave of the World
Subject: You what?
Message:
The 'knowledge' you so reverently talk about is just four meditation techniques. Now of all the people who received this so called knowledge, how many found something deeper by using them and following Maharaji?
Your ignorance about what Knowledge is is only topped by your arrogance in thinking you know something about it. Keep reading Thumbelina before going to bed Dave... everything you ever needed to know about life you learned in Kindergarten, right?

And God, if I hear any more premies parrotting Maharaji's use of the word 'thirst' I think I'll scream!
Start screaming then Dave because I had a thirst long before I ever heard of Maharaji.
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Date: Sun, May 23, 1999 at 16:34:15 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Nil
Subject: Thanks again, Nil
Message:
Your ignorance about what Knowledge is is only topped by your arrogance in thinking you know something about it. Keep reading Thumbelina before going to bed Dave... everything you ever needed to know about life you learned in Kindergarten, right?

Nil,

I'm going to thank you in advance this time for trying to avoid talking like this. Come on, Nil. Are you suggesting for a second that David knows nothing about K jsut because he disagrees with you? Take Gail, for instance. She's in the cult for 26 years and recently leaves. Would you say that she, too, must know nothing about K?

Let's generalize a bit. If an objective outsider heard you tell a former group memeber who now criticizes the group that they know nothing about it, what do you think that outsider would think? I'll tell you my guess. I think they'd wonder if the group wasn't a cult of some kind. Some sort of close-thinking organization that has no vehicle for self-criticism or dissent. But what's your opinion?
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Date: Sun, May 23, 1999 at 17:03:17 (EDT)
From: Nil
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Thanks again, Nil
Message:
Dave's position that it is nothing more than four techniques shows how little he understood from practising Knowledge. That goes for you or for Gail. What does 26 years mean to me? Squat! You know the story about the rock at the bottom of the ocean for 1 million years...
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Date: Mon, May 24, 1999 at 07:55:23 (EDT)
From: Catweasel
Email: Look,its your shadow.
To: Jim
Subject: Thanks again, Nil
Message:
The day she thought you could set her right, Jim, was the day she lost her marbles .Your probably one of the nastiest lowlifes I've had the mispleasure of running across in my short lifetime.Bitter and twisted,below average intelligence,a real thoughtless moron.Nothing you say is original,nothing you've posted remotely resembles fact.Your very critical of me Jim but,I'm just a fantasy modelled on the narky style youve exhibited over on CD's site and the empty hopeless persona you constantly exhibit here.
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Date: Mon, May 24, 1999 at 08:35:41 (EDT)
From: Gail
Email: None
To: Catweasel
Subject: Oh, Catweasel
Message:
First, not that Jim needs any defence, your adhominums regarding him are totally ridiculous. If you truly want to criticize someone, base it upon what (s)he does, not what (s)he is. When you stoop to such tactics, you end up looking like a bitter, twisted, thoughtless moron (BTW, a moron has an IQ level of 40-60 points) yourself.

What happened to you? Somewhere along this path of perfection, you have become extremely caustic. You are like a bomb waiting to explode. When lurkers read your posts, do you think it encourages them to stay in MJ's camp?
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Date: Mon, May 24, 1999 at 10:19:35 (EDT)
From: catweasel
Email: It's a caustic soda!
To: Gail
Subject: Gail your so frail
Message:
As frank zappa said'you is what you is'and what Jim does makes Jim what he is---a bitter twisted unit.Lurkers are smarter than you give them credit for,able to determine fact from fiction;something dear Gail you seemingly can't!
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Date: Mon, May 24, 1999 at 12:52:50 (EDT)
From: Pauline Premie
Email: None
To: Catweasel
Subject: Thank you Catweasel
Message:
Thank you dear brother, for being such a shining example of that love, that peace, that joy and that experience that makes you so fulfilled, so fulfilled that you can express hate so much. You are a shining example of the grace of Maharaji. I am sure that those who read your words want to be just like you and receive that holy knowledge, and revere and prostrate before the living master. You must be so fulfilled in serving, I mean participating, with the master and being such an example of his love, and what others can expect to be like if they receive the diving knowledge of Maharaji.

Too bad Maharaji banned satsang by premies, otherwise you could be a shining example to even MORE lost and confused people. It is so beautiful to see that you have the gift of understanding.
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Date: Tues, May 25, 1999 at 16:35:48 (EDT)
From: Nil
Email: None
To: Catweasel
Subject: Thanks again, Nil
Message:
Your probably one of the nastiest lowlifes I've had the mispleasure of running across in my short lifetime.Bitter and twisted,below average intelligence,a real thoughtless moron.
I disagree with you Cat (jeez, I can't believe I'm defending Jim). My assessment of him is that he is above average intellegence.
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Date: Tues, May 25, 1999 at 17:14:06 (EDT)
From: YUP
Email: None
To: Nil
Subject: I concur, Nil. Jim is a smart
Message:
one. Rumour has it that he is actually a kind, compassionate, and understanding kind of guy. At least, that's what Al said. (bit pushy at times, though)
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Date: Sun, May 23, 1999 at 16:48:19 (EDT)
From: A Sir Dave of the world
Email: None
To: Nil
Subject: What do you know?
Message:
You can't possibly know what I know or don't know about meditation on the four techniques. I mean, you don't know me personally do you. There's no mystery. Meditate on your breath and you can (sometimes) feel stillness and peace of mind. What's the big deal, they teach that in yoga classes.

Practise Ketchari Mudra and you'll get an experience. The Kundalini Yoga classes all teach that one. I've done it and I've experienced it. There's no mystery there.

I've heard the music too and I've concentrated between my eyebrows and seen some light. There's no mystery there either. The only mystery I found about these techniques was with the music and I don't ever practise the technique.

I'm just wondering what the music or sound really is. Where it comes from and what's causing it. All the other techniques I understand but the music has never been fully explained and certainly not by Maharaji!
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Date: Sun, May 23, 1999 at 17:04:53 (EDT)
From: Nil
Email: None
To: A Sir Dave of the world
Subject: What do you know?
Message:
Dave, respectfully, you don't have a clue. Stop exposing your ignorance because it makes you look like a fool.
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Date: Sun, May 23, 1999 at 17:16:31 (EDT)
From: A Sir Dave character
Email: david.studio57@btinternet.com
To: Nil
Subject: You're right Nil
Message:
I forgot to use the right words didn't I.

OK then: THAT place, THIS life, THAT enjoyement, THAT thirst, THAT joy, THAT appreciation.

I'm doing better aren't I. I'll go and have a look at Maharaji's web site and get some more words to use...
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Date: Sun, May 23, 1999 at 17:44:17 (EDT)
From: A Sir Dave type of fool
Email: david.studio57@btinternet.com
To: Nil
Subject: But if you're so smart, Nil
Message:
You tell me what the music is. Where does it come from and how come we can hear it?

I have a feeling that your knowledge of the knowledge is based upon what Maharaji has told you in his videos. But you haven't said one iota about what your experience is.

Have you practised Ketchari Mudra (4th technique) to its ultimate conclusion? Have you gotten so absorbed into the third technique that you have been unable to stop meditating?

I've experienced the above but then I'm just a fool. What's YOUR experience O wise and learned teacher? Are you trying to spin some mystique around the subject of four meditation techniques? By you saying absolutely NOTHING about any experience of them?

Or is your experience simply what Maharaji says?
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Date: Sun, May 23, 1999 at 18:07:18 (EDT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Nil
Subject: Let me explain
Message:
It's like this, Nil. I was revealed four techniques of meditation and so were you. What your experience is with these techniques is your's and what my experience is with them is mine. Are you saying YOUR experience is the right one? Yes, you are. But you're wrong, Nil, because you see, whatever anybody experiences with these techniques is neither right nor wrong. It's just whatever they experience.

Some people apparently have a 'thirst quenching' experience and some others, like myself, don't. Like David said, the best these techniques can provide is serenity (sometimes). More often than not, though, they're just plain boring. I know for you, they're much more than that, but can you honestly say that you really understand knowledge better than me because you experience what M says you should? Maybe I just understand knowledge to be something different based upon what my experience is. You can't fault me for that.
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Date: Sun, May 23, 1999 at 18:29:24 (EDT)
From: A Premie
Email: dust@lotus.feet.com
To: Jerry
Subject: Let me explain
Message:
I think Nil needs a little support here what with all you rough ex-premies ganging up on him. Can't you see Jerry that Knowledge cannot be discussed or debated because it is beyond the mind.

Only by listening to the master can one achieve knowledge which is, of course, far more than four meditation techniques. Although you have to receive the techniques off Maharaji personally to appreciate them, they are not the knowledge.

The knowledge is that place, that joy and that thirst quenched. From this comes that appreciation of this life and that gratitude for that master. But Jerry, if you've never been to that place then you cannot have this gratitude and you are destined to remain an ignorant person, unlike Nil and myself who know what we're talking about.
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Date: Sun, May 23, 1999 at 23:51:46 (EDT)
From: Pauline Premie
Email: None
To: A Premie
Subject: Let me explain
Message:
It is just so beautiful to hear a premie so filled with love speak with that understanding of that love, that joy, that peace, that experience, that knowledge, which is that gift, which is that breath, which, when we recognize the gift, develop that gratitude for Maharaji for being the master.

I really felt gifted by that gift when I saw you say that knowledge cannot be discussed because it is beyond the mind. That is so true. We can never comprehend, know, fathom, recognize, evaluate, quantify or analyze that gift with our puny, evil, dark, crazy, limited minds. So, we should never try, since, without Maharaji, we are nothing but rancid sacks of dung.

Instead, we must always make that effort to experience that gift, that love, that joy, that fufillment, that experience, that opportunity to know and serve the master, from that place of that gratitude and that place of the automatic deduction from Visa, Mastercard, American Express and Discover. By his grace, I think ATM cards are now accepted. Thank you, dear premie for reminding me of that understanding.
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Date: Mon, May 24, 1999 at 17:27:48 (EDT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Pauline Premie
Subject: Hey, Pauline
Message:
Pull down your dress, your pharisee is showing. :-)
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Date: Mon, May 24, 1999 at 17:32:56 (EDT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Pauline Premie
Subject: Actually, I prefer
Message:
PP: I prefer this understanding (evolutionary as it may be), this love (of friends, wife and daughter), this joy (hiking thru a mountain meadow), this peace (ditto), this experience (of everyday living and everyone in it), this knowledge (of life as we know it now) and last but not least, this breath (which gives my body the oxygen it requires for functioning).

You can have all the others, I'll glady take 'this.'
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Date: Mon, May 24, 1999 at 18:16:34 (EDT)
From: Pauline Premie
Email: None
To: Mike
Subject: Actually, I prefer
Message:
Dear Mike:

You obviously do not have the understanding to know that there is just this incredible difference between this love and that love. But I don't expect someone to in his mind like yo to have that understanding , which is a gift which you either do not have or do not recognize.

You must realize that this life and this world are full of pain and misery and we are nothing more than rat droppings, but that place is a place of that love, that peace, that joy, that experience and when we are there we are excrement stuck to the lotus feet. It is so blissful. Now THAT is true understanding.
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Date: Mon, May 24, 1999 at 18:32:06 (EDT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Pauline Premie
Subject: Actually, I prefer
Message:
PP: 'we are excrement stuck to the lotus feet.' Interesting analogy. But what are you going to do when he decides to wash your stinking hide from the bottom of his lotus-boot?
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Date: Mon, May 24, 1999 at 08:18:57 (EDT)
From: Sid Nigh
Email: None
To: A Premie
Subject: Let me explain
Message:
Its much simpler than that!X's are confused time warped dogmatist idealists and dont deserve a fart of intellectual recognition!
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Date: Mon, May 24, 1999 at 12:33:47 (EDT)
From: Tami R
Email: None
To: Sid Nigh
Subject: Yu tel them
Message:
Yu tel them, sid. It iz abut time that primis startd teling meen and eevil peepul like Jim Hellar wat iz rily goeing on. Butt I dunt unnderstand al the wirds, butt I also hate 'idealists' whutiver they ar. Nobudy cood evir say that primis ar idealists. That is for sur, I think. hahahaha
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Date: Sun, May 23, 1999 at 16:13:36 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Nil
Subject: Thanks Nil
Message:
Nil,

Thanks for stating your position so maturely. No, seriously, after the false cheer of Shp and the infantilism of Cat you're something of a relief. I still think you're way off the mark but, well, you know.

I want to take issue with three things you've said. One, as you'd expect, is this:

There IS, contrary to the evolutionists and nihilists in the crowd, a source of perfection rooted in existence.

1) Don't know 'bout them nihilists but I think I can talk for the first group a bit. One thing that has so impressed and effected me about evolution is the understanding that, if the theory's true at all, consciousness, like fingers and eyeballs, has evolved. From simplicity to complexity. Do you have a different understanding? If so, what? Again, we're back to this question we were talking about in the thread below. You say you accept evolution. Well what about this aspect of it? And if your understanding diverges from the consensus in the scientific community what's your explanation?

2) What's 'perfection'? Before you answer I'll tell you what I think. I think it's a meaningless term in the context Maharaji uses it. It means nothing, nothing at all. Go ahead, try to define it. You can't, not in ay real way. But go ahead. I might be prejudiced but I welcome any shot you might want to take at persuading me. Fair?

You also say:

... you believe [Maharaji] has done you wrong. Well, he has never done me wrong.

My next question is:

3) Is there anyone else in your life you have this attitude about? Any other friends who can do whatever they want to others, so long as it doesn't hurt you, you don't care?
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Date: Sun, May 23, 1999 at 16:58:43 (EDT)
From: Nil
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Thanks Nil
Message:
...if the theory's true at all, consciousness, like fingers and eyeballs, has evolved.
This is more difficult to measure as there are no bones of our ancestor's consciousness, but given that broadened experience drives the growth of consciousness, I agree.

What's 'perfection'?
Again there are no bones to prove anything but here goes: Something that always is and is unchanging. Something that doesn't need to change to be complete because it already is complete.

...whatever they want to others, so long as it doesn't hurt you, you don't care?
It's more like this: I received a tonic that I benefited from greatly. I see others applying this tonic wrongly. I say, apply it right or stop applying it then, and get on with your life.
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Date: Sun, May 23, 1999 at 17:07:30 (EDT)
From: A Sir Dave type person
Email: david.studio57@btinternet.com
To: Nil
Subject: Hey that's a good one
Message:
A tonic! Apply twice daily and rub in well. Is that your own original stuff or one of Maharaji's buzz phrases?

I think we're talking more about the pharmacist here. If he told people to use the 'tonic' in such a way that their lives were ruined, then don't you think he should be held responsible?

Also, if the pharmacist pretended to be more knowledgable than he really was, you know, like GOD, then don't you think that such bare faced lies should get him hounded out of the pharmaceutical world for good? Like lose his licence to trade.
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Date: Sun, May 23, 1999 at 17:13:11 (EDT)
From: Nil
Email: None
To: A Sir Dave type person
Subject: Hey that's a good one
Message:
Almost every drug has the potential to harm you if not taken properly. So is the pharmacist responsible if a person overdoses?? A Pharmacist with credentials dispenses the drug. Maharaji has all the qualifications to advise on this tonic. And believe me, the instructions are more than just showing up.
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Date: Sun, May 23, 1999 at 17:23:35 (EDT)
From: Gail
Email: None
To: Nil
Subject: Maharaji said, 'It is physica
Message:
lly impossible to hear too much satsang, meditate too much, serve enough, or get enough darshan. There are not enough hours in the day.' (In other words, a premie could never do enough.) Sounds like an overdose to me.
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Date: Sun, May 23, 1999 at 17:30:32 (EDT)
From: Nil
Email: None
To: Gail
Subject: Maharaji said, 'It is physica
Message:
Yeah, your coach was rooting for you Gail but you gave up on your coach. A gap of 24 hours a day is nothing compared to the gap within the heart when your faith is lost. You lost it, now you're stranded. Good luck in getting back. But, just don't do it on my back...
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Date: Mon, May 24, 1999 at 18:13:37 (EDT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Nil
Subject: BWAH HA HA HA HA HA HA
Message:
Nil: That WAS a good one.....BWAH HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA.... stranded....bwah ha ha ha ha ha.... good luck getting back... BWAH HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA
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Date: Tues, May 25, 1999 at 18:17:30 (EDT)
From: Gail
Email: None
To: Mike
Subject: BWAH HA HA HA HA HA HA
Message:
I'm still laughing on Tuesday. I can almost hear you laughing.
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Date: Sun, May 23, 1999 at 17:19:58 (EDT)
From: Gail
Email: None
To: Nil
Subject: Thanks Nil--but this is our
Message:
new satsang. Have you ever heard of the hair of the dog that bit you? Well, by taking the tonic of this forum, I am reclaiming control over my life. No longer are the reins in MJ's hands. Now I'm learning how to say, 'Giddeeup!'
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Date: Sun, May 23, 1999 at 17:25:39 (EDT)
From: Nil
Email: None
To: Gail
Subject: Thanks Nil--but this is our
Message:
Okay... whatever. Good luck then. I'll stay tuned.
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Date: Sun, May 23, 1999 at 17:44:34 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Nil
Subject: Not quite
Message:
This is more difficult to measure as there are no bones of our ancestor's consciousness, but given that broadened experience drives the growth of consciousness, I agree.

Nil,

That's not what I meant by saying 'consciousness evolved'. Not at all. Nil, scientists tell us that consciousness has evolved just like the brain that produces it. In other words, animals with small little brains have small bits of consciousness. Do you accept this as being true or not?

And Nil, this:

Again there are no bones to prove anything but here goes: Something that always is and is unchanging. Something that doesn't need to change to be complete because it already is complete.

is not a definition. I'm not asking about the qualities of X, I'm asking you what X is. Can you define it or not? If you can't then maybe it's nothnig but a little word that's infiltrated your mind. A trigger and nothing more. That's what I think it is.

It's more like this: I received a tonic that I benefited from greatly. I see others applying this tonic wrongly. I say, apply it right or stop applying it then, and get on with your life.

Are you sure that Maharaji's never hurt anyone in any way doing anything? Nil, look what you're doing. You're casting your net so far. Here you're telling each and every one of us that we never understood k. No matter who we are, what we once might have done, thought or felt, you're just completely certain taht only you, Nil, know the truth. You can't trust the premie next to you, of course, because what if they split next week or next year? So it's just you.

And now you have to also say categorically that Maharaji's never hurt anyone. As if you know.

I mean, really, Nil, your position is absolutely untenable.
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Date: Tues, May 25, 1999 at 12:44:05 (EDT)
From: Nil
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Not quite
Message:
I'm not asking about the qualities of X, I'm asking you what X is.
Then 'perfection' itself is a qualifier. If you are asking what is the definition of the source of the perfection, then we are at a stand-off… this is where you start fishing for a finite definition to something that is not finite. Jim. you've banked all your answers on science. This makes it easy because science a product of the rational mind… and being rational is a very tenable position to have. But science is a set of conclusions drawn from a set of observations. Though the observations are often conclusive, they are not always accurate. The basic premise of the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle states that the act of observation changes the system irrevocably. Now you can choose to believe this principle or not but if you do, it challenges the very foundation of your science.
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Date: Tues, May 25, 1999 at 16:50:16 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Nil
Subject: Nope
Message:
Read Message



Date:

Tues, May 25, 1999 at 12:44:05 (EDT)

From:

Nil

Email:

None

To:

Jim

Subject:

Me: Not quiteMessage:I'm not asking about the qualities of X, I'm asking you what X is.

You: Then 'perfection' itself is a qualifier. If you are asking what is the definition of the source of the perfection, then we are at a stand-off… this is where you start fishing for a finite definition to something that is not finite. Jim. you've banked all your answers on science. This makes it easy because science a product of the rational mind… and being rational is a very tenable position to have. But science is a set of conclusions drawn from a set of observations. Though the observations are often conclusive, they are not always accurate. The basic premise of the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle states that the act of observation changes the system irrevocably. Now you can choose to believe this principle or not but if you do, it challenges the very foundation of your science.


If perfection itself is a 'qualifier' you can't use it as a noun. Actually there's a word just like perfection that IS a qualifier. It's 'perfect' and it's called an adjective. Why, I used it just last week I believe.

So what's this 'perfection' stuff?

And as for Heisenberg, give me a beak. You been talking to CD or sonething. The casually bogus way you premies try to avoid science is embarrassing. Why? Because I used to be one of you!
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Date: Tues, May 25, 1999 at 19:29:43 (EDT)
From: Nil
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Nope
Message:
And as for Heisenberg, give me a beak. ...The casually bogus way you premies try to avoid science is embarrassing. Why? Because I used to be one of you!
Huh???? I'll let comments, 'Why? Because I used to be one of you!', slide... not sure what bone you're chewing on here. Re; Heisenberg: Look, I don't discount the value of science to prove four-dimensional truths but your baseline in life seems to be science. Heisenberg introduces the potential for this baseline to NOT be static (...I hate it when my baseline moves, don't you?) Looks to me like you are casually and bogus-ly avoiding Heisenberg, and its impact on your belief system.
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Date: Tues, May 25, 1999 at 12:55:10 (EDT)
From: Nil
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Not quite
Message:
Are you sure that Maharaji's never hurt anyone in any way doing anything?
I don't believe Maharaji would do anything that was not in the best interest of the person. That doesn't mean people don't get hurt… he cannot be accountable for a person's expectations or for where a person is coming from. Based upon the scope of the job he has undertaken, he has chosen to offer help in a certain manner. Do you know this scope? And do you know whether or not he has the energy left over to offer more?
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Date: Tues, May 25, 1999 at 13:33:56 (EDT)
From: Copta' Crash
Email: None
To: Nil
Subject: Not quite
Message:

I don't believe Maharaji would do anything that was not in the best interest of the person.


The heart of naivete, this is sad.

That doesn't mean people don't get hurt, he cannot be accountable...

The jist of the premie 'argument'

Based upon the scope of the job he has undertaken,

The man never had a job in his life.

he has chosen to offer help in a certain manner.

Oh yes he has, he certainly has helped--himself.

Do you know this scope? And do you know whether or not he has the energy left over to offer more?

I think I have a pretty good idea of his ''scope.'' And I sure hope he poops out soon.
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Date: Tues, May 25, 1999 at 16:14:34 (EDT)
From: Nil
Email: None
To: Copta' Crash
Subject: Not quite
Message:
Say Crash, you got something to offer besides meaningless cackling?
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Date: Tues, May 25, 1999 at 20:51:07 (EDT)
From: Copta' Buzz
Email: None
To: Nil
Subject: chastened by Nil :(
Message:
Say Crash, you got something to offer besides meaningless cackling?

Sure Nil baby you intellectual giant you, what would you like to discuss?

''Maharaji helps people,'' how 'bout that one? That should be good for a few cackles. BTW, did you like the BM's pendulous breasts? Now those are AMERICAN breasts, baby! Somethin' for premies to really get excited about!

Gosh, could you imagine, at the next progr er, event, if he pulled those beauties out for public consumption? Fuck the holy lotus feet, I'm goin' for those tits!
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Date: Tues, May 25, 1999 at 22:32:58 (EDT)
From: Nil
Email: None
To: Copta' Buzz
Subject: chastened by Nil :(
Message:
Gosh, could you imagine, at the next progr er, event, if he pulled those beauties out for public consumption? Fuck the holy lotus feet, I'm goin' for those tits!
That's pretty funny...
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Date: Mon, May 24, 1999 at 17:17:02 (EDT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Nil
Subject: Huh?
Message:
Nil, you said, there is 'a source of perfection rooted in existence.'

That's a pretty unfounded and audacious statement: PROVE IT!
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Date: Sat, May 22, 1999 at 21:18:02 (EDT)
From: temp
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: chinese whispers
Message:
Netscape and AOL have recently merged to form the
largest internet company in the world. In an effort to
remain at pace with this giant, Microsoft has
introduced a new email racking system as a way to keep
Internet Explorer as the most popular browser on the
market. This email is a beta test of the new software
and Microsoft has generously offered to compensate
those who participate in the testing process. For
each person you send this email to, you will be given
$5. For every person they give it to, you will be
given an additional $3. For every person they send it
to you will receive $1. Microsoft will tally all the
emails produced under your name over a two week period
and then email you with more instructions. This beta
test is only for Microsoft Windows users because the
email tracking device that contacts Microsoft is
embedded into the code of Windows 95 and 98.

______________________________________________________
>Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
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Date: Sun, May 23, 1999 at 01:37:30 (EDT)
From: Runamok
Email: None
To: temp
Subject: chinese whispers
Message:
For your information:
Netscape was forced to sell itself to AOL, having been run aground by Microsoft's browser sales.

OK? OK.
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Date: Sun, May 23, 1999 at 12:01:12 (EDT)
From: I KNow
Email: None
To: all
Subject: chinese whispers
Message:
The Guru is behind all of this you know. I have inside info. that he and Bill Gates plan on taking over the minds of every human being on the planet. My inside sources say it is just a matter of time. So please.please warn your neighbors and lock up your children. For Gods sake....RUN, RUN for your lives!!!!!
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Date: Sat, May 22, 1999 at 20:37:40 (EDT)
From: A Friend
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: All the answers are below
Message:
A B C D E F G H I J K L M N O P Q R S T U V W X Y Z

THIS IS YOUR STARTER KIT, ENGLISH VERSION. ALL THE ANSWERS THAT CAN BE SPOKEN ARE CONTAINED IN YOUR STARTER KIT. THERE IS NO
TIME LIMIT AND YOU MAY WORK TOGETHER. HAVE FUN!
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