Ex-Premie.Org

Forum III Archive # 49

From: May 27, 1999

To: Jun 4, 1999

Page: 3 Of: 5



Jim -:- Sweet Nothings -:- Sun, May 30, 1999 at 19:30:28 (EDT)
__Mary M -:- Do You Think -:- Sun, May 30, 1999 at 19:44:43 (EDT)
____dv -:- Which gardener? I've known -:- Tues, Jun 01, 1999 at 18:44:19 (EDT)
______Jethro -:- To DV re:gardener -:- Wed, Jun 02, 1999 at 01:49:10 (EDT)
________Liz -:- To DV re:gardener -:- Wed, Jun 02, 1999 at 15:28:42 (EDT)
__________Jethro -:- To LIZ re:gardener -:- Wed, Jun 02, 1999 at 15:47:33 (EDT)
__KB -:- My fingers around his neck. -:- Sun, May 30, 1999 at 20:55:28 (EDT)
____Gail -:- Peter Sellers - Being There -:- Sun, May 30, 1999 at 21:54:24 (EDT)
__FED-UP -:- Sweet Nothings -:- Sun, May 30, 1999 at 21:56:08 (EDT)
____Rasputin -:- Sweet Nothings -:- Sun, May 30, 1999 at 22:21:50 (EDT)
______Mary M -:- Not too sweet.... -:- Sun, May 30, 1999 at 22:49:11 (EDT)
______Princess -:- Raspy -:- Mon, May 31, 1999 at 00:14:32 (EDT)
________Mary M -:- 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5 -:- Mon, May 31, 1999 at 00:31:15 (EDT)
__________Rob -:- Raspy voice -:- Mon, May 31, 1999 at 00:38:59 (EDT)
__________princess -:- 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5 -:- Mon, May 31, 1999 at 02:48:45 (EDT)
____________Rob -:- hi -:- Mon, May 31, 1999 at 02:55:04 (EDT)
______________princess -:- hi -:- Mon, May 31, 1999 at 03:10:41 (EDT)
____Mary M -:- Sweet Nothings -:- Sun, May 30, 1999 at 22:44:05 (EDT)
______FED-UP -:- Sweet Nothings -:- Mon, May 31, 1999 at 02:00:20 (EDT)
________cp -:- Sweet Nothings -:- Mon, May 31, 1999 at 02:55:17 (EDT)
________Gail -:- Sweet Nothings -:- Mon, May 31, 1999 at 15:25:43 (EDT)

Mare -:- And we thought we had -:- Sun, May 30, 1999 at 19:00:22 (EDT)

barney -:- Setting the tone -:- Sun, May 30, 1999 at 16:13:51 (EDT)
__Robyn -:- Setting the tone -:- Sun, May 30, 1999 at 17:15:29 (EDT)
__dv -:- Whats your point? -:- Sun, May 30, 1999 at 18:54:27 (EDT)
____barney -:- A better class of name calling -:- Sun, May 30, 1999 at 22:39:17 (EDT)
__TD -:- Setting the tone - Ha ha.... -:- Sun, May 30, 1999 at 20:00:51 (EDT)
__KB -:- Sitting on the throne -:- Sun, May 30, 1999 at 21:11:35 (EDT)

Gail -:- Unconditional Love -:- Sun, May 30, 1999 at 10:10:53 (EDT)
__One of yours angels -:- Unconditional Love -:- Sun, May 30, 1999 at 10:25:28 (EDT)
____Mary M -:- Unconditional Love -:- Sun, May 30, 1999 at 11:57:22 (EDT)
______Gail -:- Unconditional Love -:- Sun, May 30, 1999 at 12:08:54 (EDT)
________Mare -:- Unconditional Love -:- Sun, May 30, 1999 at 12:51:18 (EDT)
__Catweasel -:- It still isUnconditional Love -:- Sun, May 30, 1999 at 10:43:56 (EDT)
____spartakus -:- manmat -:- Sun, May 30, 1999 at 10:49:58 (EDT)
____Gail MacDougall -:- No, it's not Catweasel -:- Sun, May 30, 1999 at 11:43:10 (EDT)
______Brian -:- Nicely said, Gail -:- Sun, May 30, 1999 at 12:36:48 (EDT)
______Catweasel -:- No, it's not Catweasel -:- Sun, May 30, 1999 at 22:45:34 (EDT)
__SPARTAKUS -:- Unconditional Love -:- Sun, May 30, 1999 at 10:45:54 (EDT)
____Sokrates -:- Unconditional Love -:- Sun, May 30, 1999 at 14:30:02 (EDT)
______never mind who -:- Unconditional Love -:- Sun, May 30, 1999 at 17:09:59 (EDT)
________Marianne -:- Conditional culthood -:- Sun, May 30, 1999 at 17:18:46 (EDT)
________Mare -:- Unconditional Love -:- Sun, May 30, 1999 at 18:28:19 (EDT)
________Gail -:- Unconditional Love -:- Sun, May 30, 1999 at 19:03:25 (EDT)
__________nmw -:- Unconditional Love -:- Mon, May 31, 1999 at 12:34:03 (EDT)
____________BOJ -:- Love, Lemmings & Bestway -:- Mon, May 31, 1999 at 17:43:26 (EDT)
____________JW -:- Intellectual Dishonesty -:- Tues, Jun 01, 1999 at 12:53:06 (EDT)
______________nmw -:- Intellectual Dishonesty -:- Tues, Jun 01, 1999 at 21:05:08 (EDT)
________________gerry -:- Intellectual Dishonesty -:- Tues, Jun 01, 1999 at 23:12:40 (EDT)
__________________Liz -:- Intellectual Dishonesty -:- Wed, Jun 02, 1999 at 15:45:53 (EDT)
______spartakus -:- Unconditional Love -:- Sun, May 30, 1999 at 19:03:51 (EDT)
________Gail -:- Unconditional Love -:- Sun, May 30, 1999 at 20:53:02 (EDT)
__________spartakus -:- Unconditional Love -:- Mon, May 31, 1999 at 00:47:38 (EDT)
____________gerry -:- Unconditional Love -:- Mon, May 31, 1999 at 01:21:06 (EDT)
______________spartakus -:- Unconditional Love -:- Mon, May 31, 1999 at 02:01:00 (EDT)
____________Rob -:- Unconditional Love -:- Mon, May 31, 1999 at 01:30:50 (EDT)
______________Gail -:- Unconditional Love -:- Mon, May 31, 1999 at 15:22:38 (EDT)
__Victoria -:- Unconditional Love -:- Tues, Jun 01, 1999 at 02:28:06 (EDT)
__Sandra -:- Unconditional Love -:- Tues, Jun 01, 1999 at 03:26:35 (EDT)
____Sister -:- oi viegh -:- Tues, Jun 01, 1999 at 07:58:57 (EDT)
____Gail -:- Why the need to sneak around? -:- Tues, Jun 01, 1999 at 08:41:20 (EDT)
____Jim -:- Maybe you're right, Sandra -:- Tues, Jun 01, 1999 at 13:54:13 (EDT)
______Gail -:- I don't think so, Jim! -:- Tues, Jun 01, 1999 at 16:01:05 (EDT)
________Victoria -:- I don't think so, Jim! -:- Tues, Jun 01, 1999 at 16:55:07 (EDT)
__________cp -:- Unconditional -:- Tues, Jun 01, 1999 at 17:50:42 (EDT)
________Jim -:- Well someone's wrong -:- Tues, Jun 01, 1999 at 22:51:28 (EDT)
__________cp -:- Well someone's wrong -:- Tues, Jun 01, 1999 at 23:41:59 (EDT)
____________Gail -:- This site = limited interest -:- Wed, Jun 02, 1999 at 05:08:06 (EDT)
______________cp -:- This site = limited interest -:- Wed, Jun 02, 1999 at 07:35:27 (EDT)
________________cp -:- This site = limited interest -:- Wed, Jun 02, 1999 at 07:38:55 (EDT)
____Nim -:- Dearest Sandra -:- Tues, Jun 01, 1999 at 18:22:34 (EDT)
______gerry -:- go Nim go !!! nt -:- Tues, Jun 01, 1999 at 19:30:12 (EDT)
________Gail -:- Whahooooooo! -:- Tues, Jun 01, 1999 at 19:36:22 (EDT)
__________Gail -:- Let me blow you a kiss -:- Wed, Jun 02, 1999 at 15:26:31 (EDT)
______Katie -:- Go for it, Joey! -:- Tues, Jun 01, 1999 at 21:45:38 (EDT)
________KB -:- Don't go ever, Nimmy. -:- Tues, Jun 01, 1999 at 23:17:48 (EDT)
__________Katie -:- 'Go' is figurative not literal -:- Wed, Jun 02, 1999 at 12:08:13 (EDT)
__________Jim -:- Here's how to do it safely -:- Wed, Jun 02, 1999 at 15:51:29 (EDT)
______selene -:- Dearest Sandra -:- Tues, Jun 01, 1999 at 23:14:10 (EDT)

Dopey -:- Embarrassed -:- Sun, May 30, 1999 at 07:09:28 (EDT)
__Liz -:- Embarrassed -:- Sun, May 30, 1999 at 16:03:15 (EDT)
__Victoria -:- Embarrassed -:- Tues, Jun 01, 1999 at 02:58:13 (EDT)
____Jim -:- Embrace your embarrasment -:- Tues, Jun 01, 1999 at 13:36:15 (EDT)
______Victoria -:- Embrace your embarrasment -:- Tues, Jun 01, 1999 at 17:11:58 (EDT)
________Jim -:- Embrace your embarrasment -:- Tues, Jun 01, 1999 at 22:56:54 (EDT)
__AJW -:- Embarrassed -:- Tues, Jun 01, 1999 at 20:23:16 (EDT)

spartakus -:- anticrist crused -:- Sun, May 30, 1999 at 03:27:01 (EDT)
__cp -:- anticrist crused -:- Sun, May 30, 1999 at 04:01:37 (EDT)
____spartakus -:- anticrist crused -:- Sun, May 30, 1999 at 10:32:52 (EDT)
______Gail -:- anticrist crused -:- Sun, May 30, 1999 at 15:54:49 (EDT)
______cp -:- +_=# -:- Sun, May 30, 1999 at 17:33:10 (EDT)

Jim -:- ELISA CABAL EXPOSED AT LAST! -:- Sun, May 30, 1999 at 00:06:03 (EDT)
__Mary M -:- ELISA CABAL EXPOSED AT LAST! -:- Sun, May 30, 1999 at 00:08:01 (EDT)
____Jim -:- ELISA CABAL EXPOSED AT LAST! -:- Sun, May 30, 1999 at 00:10:05 (EDT)
______Wm -:- over at CD's? didn't c it.(nt) -:- Sun, May 30, 1999 at 03:50:25 (EDT)
________Jim -:- CD removed it -:- Mon, May 31, 1999 at 23:45:54 (EDT)
__________Wm -:- CD removed it -:- Tues, Jun 01, 1999 at 00:20:50 (EDT)
____________cp -:- CD removed it -:- Tues, Jun 01, 1999 at 01:35:36 (EDT)
______________Wm -:- handyman -:- Tues, Jun 01, 1999 at 01:57:46 (EDT)
__ELISA CANNIBAL EXPOSED -:- AT LAST AS SHE CONTINUES TO -:- Sun, May 30, 1999 at 10:21:43 (EDT)
____Mary M -:- AT LAST AS SHE CONTINUES TO -:- Sun, May 30, 1999 at 12:06:19 (EDT)
______Gail -:- AT LAST AS SHE CONTINUES TO -:- Sun, May 30, 1999 at 12:10:33 (EDT)
________Marianne -:- Cabal -:- Sun, May 30, 1999 at 16:55:06 (EDT)
______Liz -:- AT LAST AS SHE CONTINUES TO -:- Mon, May 31, 1999 at 11:47:03 (EDT)
__Jean-Michel -:- Elisa Cabal's an instructor -:- Mon, May 31, 1999 at 03:24:50 (EDT)
__Mike -:- Hey Jim -:- Tues, Jun 01, 1999 at 16:32:24 (EDT)

SPARTAKUS -:- THE GIFT -:- Sat, May 29, 1999 at 19:36:58 (EDT)
__Jim -:- Quit shouting -:- Sat, May 29, 1999 at 20:19:49 (EDT)
____Catweasel -:- Your Shout,I'll have a Beer! -:- Sat, May 29, 1999 at 20:56:24 (EDT)
______Gail -:- You Shout, I'll have a Coffee! -:- Sat, May 29, 1999 at 22:11:01 (EDT)
________Catweasel -:- You Shout, I'll have a Coffee! -:- Sun, May 30, 1999 at 10:07:24 (EDT)
______spartakus -:- vintage of 74 was very good -:- Sun, May 30, 1999 at 01:21:30 (EDT)

Mike -:- Don't Know -:- Sat, May 29, 1999 at 16:43:45 (EDT)
__VMAN -:- Don't Know -:- Sat, May 29, 1999 at 16:47:09 (EDT)
____gerry -:- Don't Know -:- Sat, May 29, 1999 at 17:25:28 (EDT)
______cp -:- Don't Know -:- Sat, May 29, 1999 at 21:18:35 (EDT)
__Walter -:- Don't Know -:- Sat, May 29, 1999 at 23:40:30 (EDT)
__KB -:- Don't Know -:- Sun, May 30, 1999 at 00:20:51 (EDT)
____Jim -:- Bill, is this true or what? -:- Sun, May 30, 1999 at 00:31:14 (EDT)
______KB -:- I say yes -:- Sun, May 30, 1999 at 00:43:51 (EDT)
________Jim -:- Rob? -:- Sun, May 30, 1999 at 17:36:47 (EDT)
__________Rob -:- Oh Mr Postman, look and see... -:- Mon, May 31, 1999 at 00:50:32 (EDT)
____________KB -:- Oh Mr Postman, look and see... -:- Mon, May 31, 1999 at 11:37:45 (EDT)
____________Jim -:- That's it? -:- Mon, May 31, 1999 at 11:41:40 (EDT)
__Robyn -:- Don't Know -:- Sun, May 30, 1999 at 17:31:27 (EDT)
__Mike -:- The name's taken -:- Tues, Jun 01, 1999 at 10:48:14 (EDT)

Powerman -:- Niggling Feeling -:- Sat, May 29, 1999 at 16:28:18 (EDT)
__nigel -:- Like it was yesterday... -:- Sat, May 29, 1999 at 20:54:41 (EDT)
____Gerry -:- Like it was yesterday... -:- Sat, May 29, 1999 at 22:55:04 (EDT)

spartakus -:- jim and tami BAKER -:- Sat, May 29, 1999 at 16:11:43 (EDT)
__cp -:- jim and tami BAKER -:- Sat, May 29, 1999 at 16:48:16 (EDT)
____Marianne -:- jim and tami BAKER -:- Sat, May 29, 1999 at 17:33:36 (EDT)

Brian -:- Forum III with Frames -:- Sat, May 29, 1999 at 15:38:58 (EDT)
__Gerry -:- Forum III with Frames -:- Sat, May 29, 1999 at 16:28:21 (EDT)
__mw -:- Forum III with Frames -:- Sat, May 29, 1999 at 18:40:45 (EDT)
____cp -:- What will they think of next! -:- Sat, May 29, 1999 at 21:23:22 (EDT)
__Walter -:- Forum III with Frames -:- Sat, May 29, 1999 at 22:49:31 (EDT)
__Walter -:- Forum III with Frames Error -:- Sat, May 29, 1999 at 23:01:33 (EDT)
____Walter -:- Disregard Last Message -:- Sat, May 29, 1999 at 23:04:08 (EDT)
______cp -:- Disregard Last Message -:- Sat, May 29, 1999 at 23:26:31 (EDT)
________cp -:- Disregard Last Message -:- Sat, May 29, 1999 at 23:27:40 (EDT)
__________Walter -:- Very Funny... -:- Sat, May 29, 1999 at 23:48:12 (EDT)
________Brian -:- Reloading the index -:- Sun, May 30, 1999 at 00:35:58 (EDT)
__Mary M -:- Forum III with Frames -:- Sat, May 29, 1999 at 23:48:18 (EDT)

Maharaji really missed -:- the boat. He should have -:- Sat, May 29, 1999 at 11:25:39 (EDT)
__Walter -:- He Missed The Boat! -:- Sat, May 29, 1999 at 17:30:41 (EDT)
____KB -:- So did sid arthur -:- Sun, May 30, 1999 at 00:30:57 (EDT)
______Walter -:- So did sid arthur -:- Sun, May 30, 1999 at 02:54:29 (EDT)
__Sir Dave -:- the boat. He should have -:- Sat, May 29, 1999 at 21:52:23 (EDT)
____cp -:- the boat. He should have -:- Sun, May 30, 1999 at 04:08:07 (EDT)
______Walter -:- Thanks cp -:- Sun, May 30, 1999 at 21:49:19 (EDT)

spartakus -:- rajnish -:- Sat, May 29, 1999 at 10:59:36 (EDT)
__Gail -:- rajnish -:- Sat, May 29, 1999 at 11:27:34 (EDT)
____Catweasel -:- rajnish -:- Sat, May 29, 1999 at 11:41:33 (EDT)
____spartakus -:- rajnish =prem pal -:- Sat, May 29, 1999 at 11:53:05 (EDT)
__Catweasel -:- rajnish/YOU MEAN RAJNEESH!!!!! -:- Sat, May 29, 1999 at 11:39:39 (EDT)
____Marianne -:- The orange people -:- Sat, May 29, 1999 at 11:55:48 (EDT)
______Sid nigh -:- The orange people -:- Sat, May 29, 1999 at 12:04:27 (EDT)
________Marianne -:- Rajneesh was investigated -:- Sat, May 29, 1999 at 12:11:26 (EDT)
__________Sid Nigh -:- Rajneesh was investigated -:- Sat, May 29, 1999 at 12:21:40 (EDT)
____________Marianne -:- Re-read my posts -:- Sat, May 29, 1999 at 12:34:03 (EDT)
______________spartakus -:- raj neesh===prem pal -:- Sat, May 29, 1999 at 13:10:24 (EDT)
________________Marianne -:- raj neesh===prem pal -:- Sat, May 29, 1999 at 15:26:56 (EDT)
____________Walter -:- Bagwan Shri Rajneesh -:- Sat, May 29, 1999 at 16:33:21 (EDT)
______________Marianne -:- Bagwan Shri Rajneesh -:- Sun, May 30, 1999 at 18:52:21 (EDT)
____________KB -:- wrong again sid -:- Sun, May 30, 1999 at 00:39:56 (EDT)
______Blue Jay -:- The orange people -:- Sat, May 29, 1999 at 13:10:48 (EDT)
________Marianne -:- The orange people -:- Sat, May 29, 1999 at 15:05:28 (EDT)
____spartakus -:- rajnish/YOU MEAN RAJNEESH!!!!! -:- Sat, May 29, 1999 at 12:04:48 (EDT)


Date: Sun, May 30, 1999 at 19:30:28 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Sweet Nothings
Message:
If only I had a satellite hook-up! For just $40 U.S. I could have heard this last night:

Miami Beach, USA — May 29, 1999

Maharaji accepted his first speaking engagement in the United States in several months. He addressed individuals aspiring to receive Knowledge—quite a few would receive Knowledge the day following this address. Here is an excerpt from this event.

Some people ask: 'What benefit can I derive from having Knowledge?'

You are a human being. Remember that. Being in touch with that breath. With that breath that simply comes and goes. Being in touch with that loud silence that is within. Simply being in touch with that feeling that pulses through me, that I am. Where I become one. One, not many. How beneficial is that to me?

How beneficial? You are a living being. You have a whole other dimension. Yes. And it is not in the realm of lunches, and fashion, and phones, and computers, and e-mails, and v-mails, and mail-mails, and junk-mails, and—whatever. Amongst all your obligations, you have an obligation to yourself, too. To you.

In this path, in this garden of life that is so magnificent, what have you sown? Something wonderful happens in gardens. When you sow something and take care of it, it grows. And amazingly enough, one day, you are surprised that the little seed you once held in your hand has now grown to be a magnificent tree.

What have you sown in your garden? Have you augmented your beautiful garden? Or, have you just gone around and said: 'I don't like that tree there, I don't like that tree there. I'm going to change that tree. That tree is too skinny. That tree is too tall, I'm going to chop that one down, and I'm going to put some rocks there.' Have you ever stood there and looked around and seen how magnificent, truly, this garden is?

It is by great mercy—whether it is the mercy of nature, or however you want to put it. Whatever that power is, and however that power decides to interact, we exist. We exist. In the gentlest, most simple way, we exist.

You have held water in your hand, and you have manipulated water many times. You have played with water, you have jumped into water, you've drunk water, and you have spat water. Have you ever wondered what you are holding in your hand? This is mighty, mighty water. It removes mountains. It can wipe out nations. And yet, it becomes so docile in your hands that you may actually drink and enjoy it. From it, you may actually bring forth life. From that very thing that is quite capable of utter destruction.

In your garden, every day—every single day—is a seed. Every single day is a seed. Do you sow it? Or throw it? What do you do? What have you been doing? Count the days. If every day is a seed, and if that seed was sown today, then surely, there would be a magnificent forest. Whether there is or not, only you know. That's one thing about the garden—only you get to see it. I don't get to see your garden, and you don't get to see my garden.

If those seeds were sown, a magnificent—magnificent—garden must exist. The wonderful birds, chirping away. The sun filtering through the leaves. And every day, you have an oasis to go to. Or, have you just looked at every seed and said: 'How can there be anything in this seed?' Or, have you looked at the seed and said: 'I don't need to sow it, I'll get another one tomorrow. Big deal.' And it's gone. It's gone. And it is gone forever. Forever. That's a really long time. You lose a day and it does not come back.

How can I be for tomorrow? What can I do about tomorrow? Let me begin today. Let me see my second, let me see my minute. Let me feel my heart. No excuses. No lamenting, because the seed is in my hand again. And this time, let me plant it. Let me not throw it away. Let me plant it. Let me fill, let me savor—let me understand.


No part of these excerpts may be reproduced or transmitted in any form or by any means, including electronic or mechanical or information and retrieval systems, without the prior written permission of Visions International. Copyright © 1999 by Visions International. All rights reserved.

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So sue me! Ha ha ha --- no, make that Bwa Ha Ha Ha
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Date: Sun, May 30, 1999 at 19:44:43 (EDT)
From: Mary M
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Do You Think
Message:
Hi Jim,

Do you think Rawat's gardener that he fired on a whim after 20 years of divine service (in the Rawat family garden) was in the audience?

As far as the 'breath' soliloquy I'm pretty sure he plagiarized from the Lamaze Breathing Techniques.

Points to ponder!
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Date: Tues, Jun 01, 1999 at 18:44:19 (EDT)
From: dv
Email: None
To: Mary M
Subject: Which gardener? I've known
Message:
several...
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Date: Wed, Jun 02, 1999 at 01:49:10 (EDT)
From: Jethro
Email: None
To: dv
Subject: To DV re:gardener
Message:
When I was in Australia about 3 years ago, I met prem's former gardener who was sacked after 20 years without a word of explanation. Prem just sent him a message telling him to leave and did not want to see him a again.
I can't remember the person's name, but he was working in a plant nursery (somewhere on the Gold Coast).
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Date: Wed, Jun 02, 1999 at 15:28:42 (EDT)
From: Liz
Email: None
To: Jethro
Subject: To DV re:gardener
Message:
Would you be able to contact this gardener. I hope his heart wasn't broken.

Liz
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Date: Wed, Jun 02, 1999 at 15:47:33 (EDT)
From: Jethro
Email: None
To: Liz
Subject: To LIZ re:gardener
Message:
'Would you be able to contact this gardener. '

I doubt it since the premies who took me to see him I am no longer in contact with. I doubt that they're even speaking to me...but I'll try and contact them sometime in the future.

'I hope his heart wasn't broken.'
I am sure he is telling himself that it is just M's lila....just like I did for years after I was thrown out of the ashram onto the street. It took me years to wake up.
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Date: Sun, May 30, 1999 at 20:55:28 (EDT)
From: KB
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: My fingers around his neck.
Message:
The bastard has the gall to talk about wasted days
when he wasted so many of ours by power tripping
on us under the guise of lord of the universe.
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Date: Sun, May 30, 1999 at 21:54:24 (EDT)
From: Gail
Email: None
To: KB
Subject: Peter Sellers - Being There
Message:
Has anyone else seen this movie. There are many parallels between MJ the gardiner and Chauncey the gardiner; profundity in simplicity. MJ was elevated to LOTU; Chauncey was elevated to Prime Minister despite having an IQ of 80.

Except for the jokes, MJ's current discourses are whisps of nothingness; simplicity at its finest. This shows great prudence on his part. Who could accuse him of psychological manipulation? I've been hearing about these crops I have growing within for years, but I have yet to harvest even one bean sprout.

I have to admit it--the only things I ever loved about it all were the endorphin high I conditioned myself to feel and the ego- booster of being one of god's chosen. We might as well face it, we're addicted to love (brain chemicals).
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Date: Sun, May 30, 1999 at 21:56:08 (EDT)
From: FED-UP
Email: NONE
To: Jim
Subject: Sweet Nothings
Message:
I too attended the Miami event yest erday, Saturday.

I must confess that M is a charismatic speaker with a captive, rapturous but submissive audience ....... but the rubbish he speaks almost put me to sleep. What a fraud
!
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Date: Sun, May 30, 1999 at 22:21:50 (EDT)
From: Rasputin
Email: None
To: FED-UP
Subject: Sweet Nothings
Message:
So why the fuck did you go you stupid bastard
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Date: Sun, May 30, 1999 at 22:49:11 (EDT)
From: Mary M
Email: None
To: Rasputin
Subject: Not too sweet....
Message:
Rasputin,

Why the fuck did any of us participate? Does that automatically make all of us stupid bastards and bitches?

If FED wants to share let he or she share.

Mary awaiting more 'Sweet Nothings'
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Date: Mon, May 31, 1999 at 00:14:32 (EDT)
From: Princess
Email: None
To: Rasputin
Subject: Raspy
Message:
If you are some stupid premie still running on adrenaline after the trip to Miami and dropping in on the forum while you check our email please have a beer and go to bed already.
You should have stayed down there and cruised the bars.
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Date: Mon, May 31, 1999 at 00:31:15 (EDT)
From: Mary M
Email: None
To: Princess
Subject: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5
Message:
Hi Princess,

Rasputin did not go to Miami. FED-UP did and responded to Jims post from EV. (Sometimes it's healthy to remember all of us ex-es went to programs and at some point along the road 'Puff the Magic Dragon' was no more. Voila - a new ex is morphed.)

Rasputin and yourself are ticked at FED-UP for some reason I can't quite fathom.

This thread has gotten a bit tangled. I still feel that if FED-UP wants to post let he or she post. Do you expect this person to hang out with premies in Miami and and get through the 'candy apple glaze' of a group high and state that M was boring?

Mare

Mare
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Date: Mon, May 31, 1999 at 00:38:59 (EDT)
From: Rob
Email: None
To: Mary M
Subject: Raspy voice
Message:
Just remember, Rasputin was a mad monk, so maybe he hasn't got aye his marbles?
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Date: Mon, May 31, 1999 at 02:48:45 (EDT)
From: princess
Email: None
To: Mary M
Subject: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5
Message:
now then
I was telling Rasputin to back off from Fed up so he can feel free to express himself.
Sounded to me like Rasp was a premie giving him a hard time.

but I havnt read the rest of this thread, so god knows what hs gone on
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Date: Mon, May 31, 1999 at 02:55:04 (EDT)
From: Rob
Email: None
To: princess
Subject: hi
Message:
Think we're the only ones on. I've got insomnia, how 'bout you?
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Date: Mon, May 31, 1999 at 03:10:41 (EDT)
From: princess
Email: None
To: Rob
Subject: hi
Message:
im on all right
there is a message to you above
note the two names.
Us mercury types use different ones after dark.
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Date: Sun, May 30, 1999 at 22:44:05 (EDT)
From: Mary M
Email: None
To: FED-UP
Subject: Sweet Nothings
Message:
FED-UP,

Appreciated your post. Could you tell us a bit more about the ambiance?

Considering we're the 'old fogey's club' it would be good to hear from Generation X reps.

Love,
mare
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Date: Mon, May 31, 1999 at 02:00:20 (EDT)
From: FED-UP
Email: NONE
To: Mary M
Subject: Sweet Nothings
Message:
The ambiance was as usual - boisterous, adulating and sickening.

For Rasputin's benefit I went because I had to (not that it is any of his bloody business!) plus the fact that the venue was a few blocks from where I live.

Suffce that t M and his EV organisation are nothing but a bunch of frauds - but how does one convince a mesmerized adulating audience?
The Forum may be a good place to vent one's anger but nothing mire.

I am married to a person who is totally engrossead with M and, I fear, beyond help. Somebody has to be in the enemy's camp and hopefully rescue my partner.

FED UP AND DISGRUNTLED

.
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Date: Mon, May 31, 1999 at 02:55:17 (EDT)
From: cp
Email: None
To: FED-UP
Subject: Sweet Nothings
Message:
oy viegh
I am overtaken with a solemn moment for your plight.
words fail me
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Date: Mon, May 31, 1999 at 15:25:43 (EDT)
From: Gail
Email: None
To: FED-UP
Subject: Sweet Nothings
Message:
Were you ever involved with EV and Maharaji?
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Date: Sun, May 30, 1999 at 19:00:22 (EDT)
From: Mare
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: And we thought we had
Message:
it bad supporting the Lard!

Check out the June Issue of Smithsonian Magazine. There's a delightful article about the CALTRANS 'working men and women' whose daunting task is keeping Highway 1 in shape often times around Malibu.

Some of them have decided to set up a camp at the highway refurb sites to avoid the commute.

Here's the good part. They've dubbed their camp, 'Camp Wannamoochee' says one worker. You will be asked to take the Moochee Oath should you join this elite crew of daredevils. 'Do you swear to eat red meat and only red meat? Do you swear that beer is both a fruit and vegetable?' The article further states, 'keeping the road open is a tears-and-beers saga.' They've had severe problems at Malibu Bluffs (I think 'Malibu Bluffs' is an apropos name for Seva Corporation of America's Absentee Owner's Estate).

Well here's the rest:

'The coast highway through Malibu forms part of the high-rent district where zippy Porsches sport vanity plates like '4 HWY 1'. Many movie stars live off the route: Barbra Streisand, Jack Nicholson, Cher. These people expect to be able to get to their driveways'

Workers see such folks pass their site every day. 'What a lot of people don't understand is that guys like us are supporting a lifestyle.'

I think X/3 should award the Caltrans Malibu Wannamoochie workers a directorship (in absentia) on the BBOC aka Burnt Batch of Cookies Foundation's Board.

Now who'll bring the beer?

Luv,
Contrary Mare - FORGET THE CULTS - START A FOUNDATION;-)
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Date: Sun, May 30, 1999 at 16:13:51 (EDT)
From: barney
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Setting the tone
Message:
As the incoming Webmaster effective June 1, I am seeing the need to facilitate communication and reduce the number of characters stored on the server. Therefore, I'm providing this list of Assicons (like emoticons.)

(_!_) a regular ass

(__!__) a fat ass

(!) a tight ass

(_^^_) a bubble ass

(_*_) a sore ass

{_!_} a swishy ass

(_o_) an ass that's been around

(_x_) kiss my ass

(_X_) leave my ass alone

(_zzz_) a tired ass

(_o^^o_) a wise ass

(_E=3Dmc2_) a smart ass

(_$_) Money coming out of his ass

(_?_) Dumb Ass

Why gone on and on forever with words when one of these Assicons will quickly and succintly do the job?

For example:

Maharaji is a (__!__),(_?_) with too much (_$_).
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Date: Sun, May 30, 1999 at 17:15:29 (EDT)
From: Robyn
Email: sundogs@hotmail.com
To: barney
Subject: Setting the tone
Message:
Dear Barney,
Well this would be VERY funny if my toilet was working but it is not so it made me cry!
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Sun, May 30, 1999 at 18:54:27 (EDT)
From: dv
Email: None
To: barney
Subject: Whats your point?
Message:
nt
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Date: Sun, May 30, 1999 at 22:39:17 (EDT)
From: barney
Email: None
To: dv
Subject: A better class of name calling
Message:
I want a better class of name calling here. I want the dumpsters in the alleys filled with empty champange bottles, caviar tins, and anything else that smells of high class.

I've got to cut this short to make it down to the docks to wish some friends bon voyage.
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Date: Sun, May 30, 1999 at 20:00:51 (EDT)
From: TD
Email: None
To: barney
Subject: Setting the tone - Ha ha....
Message:
Thanks Barney - now I know what to put in my e-mails to Maharaji. Oh, and I might just send these to some of my friends (they're all suckers for the odd bit of bottom humour now'n'again!). Thanks.
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Date: Sun, May 30, 1999 at 21:11:35 (EDT)
From: KB
Email: None
To: barney
Subject: Sitting on the throne
Message:
HI Barney!
Glad your in charge.
You are the latest in a unbroken succession of perfect
web masters.

(_*.*_)=head up ass

(_cat_)=catweasel

(_/_)=crooked ass prem rawat

(_:_)=monica lewis

(____)=prem rawat, the shit comes out the mouth.

(_o!o_)=the lords tiny weeny
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Date: Sun, May 30, 1999 at 10:10:53 (EDT)
From: Gail
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Unconditional Love
Message:
What ever happened to unconditional love? Guru Margarine told us that in this world of illusion, the only real, unconditional love was the love between a master and devotee. Bonds between children and parents, lovers, family members and friends were superficial and could be easily broken. Do one wrong thing and all bets are off with these temporary, worldly relationships.

MJ said, 'You abandon me, but I never abandon you. Even in your deepest, darkest moment, I do not abandon you.' Where is his unconditional love now? It has been deep, dark and incredibly lonely for me this past year; Lord Maharaji has not seen fit to come and allay my fears. Instead, I have been used as a deterrance to others--there without the Grace of God go I.

Hear the Master Speak; 'Dear Premies: Do not criticize me or the progress of my mission. I am the Lord, thy God. Noncompliance with this fifth commandment will result in banishment and eternal damnation. The Lord has spoken.'
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Date: Sun, May 30, 1999 at 10:25:28 (EDT)
From: One of yours angels
Email: None
To: Gail
Subject: Unconditional Love
Message:
Dear Gail,

God loves you. Never doubt that. He fashioned you down to your cuticles. Stop your self-punishment. Go enjoy something, anything. Do something that puts a real smile on your face, now! Go to Florida and visit that nice premie lady who invited you.

Look for the beauty and love in your life as hard as you have been looking for the confusion and trouble. Whatever you look for you will find. Look for what you want the most and don't stop until you have found it. And enjoy the search. You are most fortunate among creatures to even realize there is a search and a goal.
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Date: Sun, May 30, 1999 at 11:57:22 (EDT)
From: Mary M
Email: None
To: One of yours angels
Subject: Unconditional Love
Message:
Hello Angel,

Just to set the record straight I'm that nice ex-premie lady who invited Gail down.

Love,
Mary M
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Date: Sun, May 30, 1999 at 12:08:54 (EDT)
From: Gail
Email: None
To: Mary M
Subject: Unconditional Love
Message:
Geez Mary. Thanks for the invite. I'll think I'll take you up on that. Can I bring my African grey parrot? You may not want her along; you can imagine the things she says.
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Date: Sun, May 30, 1999 at 12:51:18 (EDT)
From: Mare
Email: None
To: Gail
Subject: Unconditional Love
Message:
Hey Gail,

I'm enjoying the Mare handle Nim gave me!

By all means bring the parrot. We'd have a blast. Has your parrot been with you through all your travels, trials, and travails?

We might just need to start organizing an outing at the springs. There are quite a few in the one privately owned park. It also has electric outlets, grills, HOT Water showers... and an eclectic group of people. As well as the clearest water in the world.

Check it out: Ginnie

In the old days one could only get to it down a well hidden dirt road. Many a local woman of old trudged the road to do their laundry.

Love,
Mare
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Date: Sun, May 30, 1999 at 10:43:56 (EDT)
From: Catweasel
Email: None
To: Gail
Subject: It still isUnconditional Love
Message:
What you are saying is not true.WHO said you were banned,When did they say it and WHAT is their role?Here ,you could be like me, a fictional character.You could be 'playing with the Premies'
You seem pretty keen to maintain your XXX status,so why do you want to attend an event with M anyway Gail?P.S I'm happy to chat to you here .Even give you a few clues.But thats it;for all I know you could be the illconsidered Barney/Roger.Simple question
'Why do you want to go?'
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Date: Sun, May 30, 1999 at 10:49:58 (EDT)
From: spartakus
Email: manmat
To: Catweasel
Subject: manmat
Message:
the manmat woke up on the soft side.
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Date: Sun, May 30, 1999 at 11:43:10 (EDT)
From: Gail MacDougall
Email: freedom@gtn.net
To: Catweasel
Subject: No, it's not Catweasel
Message:
I am a real person, Catweasel. I really do live in London, Ontario, Canada. Feel free to phone me at (519) 660-6578 or write at 242 Huron Street, London, ON, Canada N6A 2J7. Although London has now been taken off the global contact list (probably because there are only five people left), Lynn Devine is still the contact person here.

I really was rejected entry to the satellite program last December, 1998 by Michael Duhaney and Alex Perlman. At that time, Michael still owed about $1 800 on my credit card of which he still owes me $2 and my credit card (no loyalties here).

I really was called the other day by Michael Duhaney and told that I would not be able to attend EV events unless I went to a meeting first. Here are his phone numbers: home - (519) 679-3819 and work - (519) 852-3375. Why not call and ask him why he felt a pressing need to call seven times in two weeks to relay this message?

He was an ashram premie for years. He does security in his green suit for most North American programs. He is a nice person with a great laugh. In the chain of things, he has no official role for EV. I'm sure he knows I would not create a scene at a program.

I am merely pointing out that MJ has not offered unconditional love. That's all. I'm angry, but doing ok. I wouldn't trapse around the globe after MJ, but I would take a personal day to go to Montreal after the 'meeting'. I would like to see what it feels like after being away for nearly a year. Moreover, I would like to see MJ live up to his promise of 'the door is always open' and 'unconditional love'.

I come here to uncover my own programming. By the time I left last year, I was in the advanced stage of co-dependancy on MJ, so I had little interest in the world. I am alone in the aftermath of MJ except for my cyberspace friends--regular, worldly folks and shrinks just can't relate to the atrocity of be so self-effacing as to live with your mind in a vice for over 24 years. As an individual, I pose no threat to MJ or EV, but collectively our voices represent the feelings and doubts of thousands of ex and current fence-sitting premies (PWKs).
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Date: Sun, May 30, 1999 at 12:36:48 (EDT)
From: Brian
Email: None
To: Gail MacDougall
Subject: Nicely said, Gail
Message:
Now I'm wondering whether Catweasel will respond sensibly to it. Or whether there will EVER be any intelligent response from those who are responsible for making the rules governing who is and isn't allowed into 'free' public programs, and how to measure whether they fall into an acceptable catagory or not.

Certainly Maharaji will never respond. There are no real problems in his world that more donations can't rectify. Devotees' problems are theirs. His problems are for the devotees to solve. Nice. And they fall all over themselves making excuses for the little shit...

Maybe Michael is a power-hungry prick. Maybe he's even well-meaning in some twisted way. But he chooses to 'serve' the needs of someone who doesn't even know he's alive. And to turn his back on someone who was REALLY there for him when he needed it.

Michael, you're disgusting. Maharaji is probably very proud of you.
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Date: Sun, May 30, 1999 at 22:45:34 (EDT)
From: Catweasel
Email: None
To: Gail MacDougall
Subject: No, it's not Catweasel
Message:
Thank you for the detail.I accept what you are saying.Please allow me the time to repond respectfully.Cyberspace is'nt real.
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Date: Sun, May 30, 1999 at 10:45:54 (EDT)
From: SPARTAKUS
Email: SELF LOVE
To: Gail
Subject: Unconditional Love
Message:
HI GAIL. love your self first! and you will see how unconditional it is.
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Date: Sun, May 30, 1999 at 14:30:02 (EDT)
From: Sokrates
Email: None
To: SPARTAKUS
Subject: Unconditional Love
Message:
I've got a question for you, Spartakus. If you've got nothing but self-loathing for yourself, how do you turn that into self-love? Some things are easier said than done and not very helpful when said however well intentioned they might be. You were being well intentioned, weren't you? Or were you trying to show us how wise you are? I'm unimpressed.
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Date: Sun, May 30, 1999 at 17:09:59 (EDT)
From: never mind who
Email: None
To: Gail
Subject: Unconditional Love
Message:
Gail, lurking here from time to time I have 'heard' you say things like 'Rawat must be stopped'. Do you really think it so unreasonable for someone to want to 'check in with you' before having you at an event?

Is it unreasonable to want to avoid heckling at an event with hundreds of people? Ahhhh - probably y'all will think it IS unreasonable...but I don't personally think so. That doesn't mean I condone over-zealous 'helpers' or taking of ANYONE's money. But I dont think any of this has anything to do with unconditional love, or doors being open or closed. Its a pragmatic step to insure that the people who have come to listen can do so undisturbed.

I'm sorry you've had such a hard time and don't want to fill your head with platitudes. I just wish you the best. Life is short. Too short. I hope you can move on, in whatever direction works for you.
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Date: Sun, May 30, 1999 at 17:18:46 (EDT)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: never mind who
Subject: Conditional culthood
Message:
Never mind: Gail can and will speak for herself, I'm sure. No, it is not ok for people to check in with Gail before she attends because we were all told that 'This Knowledge is for Everyone.' The fact that these folks want to exclude people who have dissenting views just shows that the propaganda that has been circulating for years is UNTRUE. Who decided this, anyway? M? Or PAM's, who profit from their closeness to M and don't want anyone posing confusing questions? To exclude Gail, who gave over 20 years of her life to M, is a very unsettling piece of information ---- something that those who are about to be ensnared ought to know. Those involved in the profit end of things don't want this to get out, for obvious reasons. End of gravy train.
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Date: Sun, May 30, 1999 at 18:28:19 (EDT)
From: Mare
Email: None
To: never mind who
Subject: Unconditional Love
Message:
Is it unreasonable to want to avoid heckling at an event with hundreds of people?

Wow, NMW, you guys wouldn't last two minutes at a Tennessee Vols game!

I'd be more concerned for the heckler than for the ambiance of the program. After all, I have it on good authority that Craftsman just filled an order for 1,123 titanium enforced steel hammers (with shoulder holsters and reflective wrap shades thrown in to seal the deal) to be worn by M's Security Guards and of course his loyal usherettes. The glitter filled batons the ushers and usherettes used just didn't pack enough oomph for fracturing skulls.

Ahem, is that pie on your face?

Luv,
Mare
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Date: Sun, May 30, 1999 at 19:03:25 (EDT)
From: Gail
Email: None
To: never mind who
Subject: Unconditional Love
Message:
Dear NMW:

Thank you for your kind wishes. I don't think MJ can be stopped, per se. Many old-timers are in for the long haul. Would you agree that new people don't seem to stay very involved for long? I would say that the group has dwindled in North America, but it will not stop entirely.

I am outspoken, but not stupid. Do you really think I would take on a crowd of 2 200 people and risk injury or death by hammer? I have never taken part in any demonstration until the teachers' strike last year. I have never even been back to the video venue since my last viewing on June 13, 1998. If I were a rabble rouser, I would have been over there picketing or putting flyers on people's windows--JUST SAY KNOW!

I am sincere about wanting to see how I feel about MJ and K. I did spend over half my life involved. I had doubts and questions, but I rarely doubted that MJ was the Lord. I couldn't figure out why he assigned such dumb people to run things. For example, Bestway Travel trips always cost about 15% more than booking trips yourself. Nobody ever knew where the money was going--not even George Legere (it was always someone else's department). In fact, nobody knew anything, but there was always lots of direction.
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Date: Mon, May 31, 1999 at 12:34:03 (EDT)
From: nmw
Email: None
To: Gail
Subject: Unconditional Love
Message:
I wanted to paste in your message so I could reply line by line, but couldnt figure out how.

Anyway, I don't know you - but I certainly don't think you're stupid. I have no reason NOT to think you're sincere about wanting to know how you feel. And you're entitled to do so.

As for him assigning such dumb people to run things - I can't disagree. So its a good practice to take control of your own life and decisions in any case. Easy to say, not so easy to do, but critical nonetheless - no matter what path you're following.

As for the whole Lord thing - I dont quite know what to say about it. I don't think I even quite understand what 'the Lord' means. Much like I don't understand what 'God' means. In any context I understand those words today, MJ is neither of those. Whatever I was thinking of 25 years ago - its all evolved. Or changed. Or whatever.

I hope you said 'the hammer' thing tongue in cheek. I think you must know that the main interest of people at these events is listening in a focused environment. If you thought otherwise, I can't imagine you'd be publishing your phone number to the whole world.

As for Bestways travel - I dont think it has any official or quasi-official status - but who knows? Maybe it does. I don't recall anyone even remotely pushing me to make my reservations through them.

Like I said - I wish you the best.
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Date: Mon, May 31, 1999 at 17:43:26 (EDT)
From: BOJ
Email: None
To: nmw
Subject: Love, Lemmings & Bestway
Message:
NMW,

As for Bestways travel - I dont think it has any official or quasi-official status - but who knows? Maybe it does. I don't recall anyone even remotely pushing me to make my reservations through them.

NMW - of course you don't recall even remotely being pushed. Sharks know the behavior patterns of lemmings quite well. Rob is correct. They don't need $50 from anyone. It's soooo easy.

Do you think the Registered Agent of Bestway Linda M Smith is the same Linda M Smith of Elan Vital?

<<<<<<< ELAN VITAL >>>>>>>>>

CORP NUMBER: J69298
CORP NAME: ELAN VITAL FOUNDATION INC.
TITLE: DPT NAME: BALE, JOHN K
516 N. PENNSFIELD PLACE, SUITE 108
THOUSAND OAKS, CA
TITLE: VP NAME: MARGULIES, ALICIA I.
11900 BISCAYNE BLD #200
MIAMI, FL
TITLE: DS NAME: SMITH, LINDA M
11900 BISCAYNE BLVD. #200
MIAMI, FL

TITLE: D NAME: CIULLO, VIRGILIO J
516 N. PENNSFIELD PLACE, SUITE 108
THOUSAND OAKS, CA

<<<<<< BESTWAY >>>>>>>

NUM: V19568 ST:FL ACTIVE/FL PROFIT FLD: 03/09/1992
FEI#: 65-0317684
NAME : BESTWAY TRAVEL & CONVENTIONS, INC.
PRINCIPAL: 420 LINCOLN ROAD
ADDRESS SUITE 359
MIAMI BEACH, FL 33139
RA NAME : SMITH, LINDA M
RA ADDR : 11900 BISCAYNE BLVD SUITE 200
NORTH MIAMI, FL 33181 US

ANN REP : (1997) B 04/25/97 (1998) BY 04/01/98 (1999) A 04/08/99
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Date: Tues, Jun 01, 1999 at 12:53:06 (EDT)
From: JW
Email: None
To: nmw
Subject: Intellectual Dishonesty
Message:
As for the whole Lord thing - I dont quite know what to say about it. I don't think I even quite understand what 'the Lord' means. Much like I don't understand what 'God' means. In any context I understand those words today, MJ is neither of those. Whatever I was thinking of 25 years ago - its all evolved. Or changed. Or whatever.

I hate to say this, but the above statement is incredibily dishonest on an intellectual level. Perhaps you are being more dishonest to yourself than anyone else so perhaps we should feel sorry for you.

It is a major defense mechanism, rationalization, method of protecting contradictory and ridiculous beliefs simply to resort to a sort of cultic vagueness, which you are doing here. 'Gee, I don't know and what does it mean anyway, etc., etc., etc.,' I have engaged in this myself in the past as a card-carrying cult memeber.

I also find the 'evolution' theory particularly insulting to the intelligence of anyone who was around Maharaji and his cult 15 years ago (NOT 25 years ago by the way), when M was clearly claiming to be the incarnation of god, sitting on thrones, giving darshan, wearing crowns and all the rest. You don't 'evolve' from something like that. It's impossible. You either admit the error and apologize -- correcting permanently this huge, glaring, incomprehensible error and try to move on, or you do what Maharaji has done: lie about it, blame others, obfiscate and cover it over, rationalize it and take no responsiblity whatsoever for doing it, nor for damaging people in the process, all the time continuing on a more subtle level the very same kind of erroneous and destructive beliefs.
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Date: Tues, Jun 01, 1999 at 21:05:08 (EDT)
From: nmw
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: Intellectual Dishonesty
Message:
I hate to say this, but the above statement is incredibily dishonest on an intellectual level. Perhaps you are being more dishonest to yourself than anyone else so perhaps we should feel sorry for you.

You can feel sorry for me if you like. I must admit I find your use of the word 'we' very entertaining. Intellectually revealing at the least.

It is a major defense mechanism, rationalization, method of protecting contradictory and ridiculous beliefs simply to resort to a sort of cultic vagueness, which you are doing here. 'Gee, I don't know and what does it mean anyway, etc., etc., etc.,' I have engaged in this myself in the past as a card-carrying cult memeber.

Sorry - that's not what I said. That's not what I meant. I know its inconvenient for you to accept that - but it is true. Make it sound any way you want it to. I think I resent being called 'intellectually dishonest', but its not worth arguing over. It would be intellectually demeaning to me. Read my post again...carefully. Cultic vagueness - sheesh!

Whatever.
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Date: Tues, Jun 01, 1999 at 23:12:40 (EDT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: nmw
Subject: Intellectual Dishonesty
Message:
Don't worry about it nme, JW will parse you to death. It's sorta like his statement that Margaret Sanger has studied ''thousands' of cults (notice he made no retraction or acknowledgement of being wrong.) He makes up his own facts and figures as he goes along, and they seem to pass as truth. Don't bother. It's not worth it, trust me on this one.
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Date: Wed, Jun 02, 1999 at 15:45:53 (EDT)
From: Liz
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Intellectual Dishonesty
Message:
Are you saying, Gerry , that I shouldn't believe what J.W. Says?
ie: Linda Smith, Affairs by M , alcholism by M etc.?

Liz
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Date: Sun, May 30, 1999 at 19:03:51 (EDT)
From: spartakus
Email: na
To: Sokrates
Subject: Unconditional Love
Message:
I joined this forum 3 days ago, and so far i have noticed a very storng common denominator. simlicity is not your forte. with the amount of energy,that is dispenced on self loathing one can experience self love . self love is a by product of being in the here and now. i did not try to impress any one, i threw few pebbeles into the pond to see if the ripples (broadripple)will rich the shore .by the way its all done for the love of life and god......
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Date: Sun, May 30, 1999 at 20:53:02 (EDT)
From: Gail
Email: None
To: spartakus
Subject: Unconditional Love
Message:
Believe me, self-loathing is no longer one of my problems. For the first time in decades, I feel that I'm up to snuff. I am no longer a spirtual failure; I have realized MJ's Knowledge. Unfortunately, I spent too much time in this pursuit; consequently, I did not cultivate aptitudes and friendships outside EV. That is my new struggle-worldly integration. Don't worry. I haven't come this far to quit now.
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Date: Mon, May 31, 1999 at 00:47:38 (EDT)
From: spartakus
Email: None
To: Gail
Subject: Unconditional Love
Message:
Thair was a storm on miami beach yesterday around 5 pm . a real violent one. 1/2 an hour later. i stood on the balconey looking @ the ocean, when sudenley this very larg, lear jet with tipped wings, and colord tale, approched from the east. i picked my binocolors and followed it, until it dissapird in the low hanging cloudes. do you think it was one of m picokish appirances. i know that his prog. was in the eve. but i did not know when. i have lived in miami for the last 20 years. i have recieved kowlege 25 years ago. i renaunced m 5 years ago. and realized! that knowlege, DOES NOT belong to m but, only to the allmighty that keeps me ALIV. the energy on south beach last night was uneasey. @any rate ,i think prem pal started to dispence latley anew version, called KNOWLEGE LITE!!!!! what do you think?
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Date: Mon, May 31, 1999 at 01:21:06 (EDT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: spartakus
Subject: Unconditional Love
Message:
what do you think?

I think you're a poser.

Or nigel.

Or (god forbid) keith.
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Date: Mon, May 31, 1999 at 02:01:00 (EDT)
From: spartakus
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Unconditional Love
Message:
have a littel faith my boy! thair are some real peopel, alive and kiking.
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Date: Mon, May 31, 1999 at 01:30:50 (EDT)
From: Rob
Email: None
To: spartakus
Subject: Unconditional Love
Message:
You need to catch up sparky. M hasn;t flown a lear for yonks. besides he arrived by boat
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Date: Mon, May 31, 1999 at 15:22:38 (EDT)
From: Gail
Email: None
To: Rob
Subject: Unconditional Love
Message:
What do you think, Rob. Should I be banned or not?
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Date: Tues, Jun 01, 1999 at 02:28:06 (EDT)
From: Victoria
Email: None
To: Gail
Subject: Unconditional Love
Message:
Dear Gail,

I would go to Montreal with you if I could. I saw M in Montreal in 1978 I think it was. I think it was the time he gave that MIND satsang that Jim quoted up there. It's funny because some of the quotes don't mean much to me, they are just like something I read in a magazine or heard on a tape. But others slice deep into me...I think those are the ones I heard in person, the ones I constantly meditated to...that mind quote scared me, ew, get it off me, you know?

I'm glad you brought up this subject of unconditional love because I think it is bullshit. Love unconditionally and you create spoiled, selfish ne'er-do-wells. SHP accused me of having unconditional love a couple of weeks back. Please god if there is a god save me from ever again having unconditional love for anyone. These feelings should be reserved for dead messiahs only. And infants.

Love,
Victoria
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Date: Tues, Jun 01, 1999 at 03:26:35 (EDT)
From: Sandra
Email: None
To: Gail
Subject: Unconditional Love
Message:
Dear Gail,

C'mon, you know that's baloney. I'm sure I'm not the only one who remembers you ranting quite violently, often obscenely and definitely insultingly in the loudest possible virtual manner right before the satellite event. It wasn't at all surprising you weren't invited in at that time. To blame that on Maharaji is just another in a long, loud line of scapegoating. Yes, the door is open but to use your public tantrums (here) and twist them as an example of something Maharaji is doing to you...that's really pretty lame and quite dishonest. You want to blow your top in public, go ahead. Don't expect to be invted ANYWHERE when you've publicly and repeatedly insulted the host, be it a dinner party or a Maharaji event. It's exactly the same...it's a matter of decency, manners and respect. This means a lot to the other people there, whether you like it or not. You're the one who's tried to shut down OTHER people's access (the library, etc.) To use this as your repeated bullhorn of 'what they done to me' is flat out dishonest...and beaneath your dignity and honor. You pride yourself on honesty...would you have invited YOU in after reading all the crap you were shouting in public? I think not.
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Date: Tues, Jun 01, 1999 at 07:58:57 (EDT)
From: Sister
Email: None
To: Sandra
Subject: oi viegh
Message:
Sandra
Good scimitar action . Good criticism.
Doesnt it illustrate how for each ex premie there is an individual process of extracting themself from the effects of the cult.

Just as for each premie there is also the trap of naming an individual ex-premies process as a personal hang up --and therfore the fault is certainly not with the cult or Margariney.
(You might not be doing that , but I am not familiar with you.)

I think there is a real danger in a linear medium like this to fuse together individual behavior/mode of expression with the objective problem.
I see it happening on both sides of the issues that come up.

Continually there is a expansion and contraction between the personal viewpoint of one person and the objective viewpoint of the other. Most of the time they cross wires and blow a fuse eventually.

Even if someone was in high victim mode, that does not let the victimizer off the hook.

As far as I am concerned, Gail is entitled to whatever she wants to do. M has had it easy for too long.
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Date: Tues, Jun 01, 1999 at 08:41:20 (EDT)
From: Gail
Email: None
To: Sandra
Subject: Why the need to sneak around?
Message:
Why are venues never told who is coming to speak? When the Rolling Stones handlers rent venues, do you think they say special guests will be coming to entertain a limited audience.

Furthermore, do you know what unconditional love means? It means regardless of what one person does, the other will continue to love. Maharaji promised it, so where is it?

BTW, find the obscenities.

Gail
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Date: Tues, Jun 01, 1999 at 13:54:13 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Sandra
Subject: Maybe you're right, Sandra
Message:
Sandra,

Gail's my friend but I want to be fair about this. I think that if someone disrupts a program, let's say, there really are some ethical issues raised that might not be black and white. Can we discuss this?

I'll tell you my experience. The last program I attended was the only one I ever spoke out at. It was Raja Ji's money-for-plane-number-who-knows-what pitch in LA in the late eighties. Raja Ji was taking questions and I interjected -- out of turn -- on what I thought was some guy's behalf who was getting brushed off by the Lord of the Universe's brother. Now, granted, this was a question period. I wasn't interrupting a soliloquy or something. Still, I was disrespectful to say the least. I even expressed a tad righteous indignation, enough, at least, to bring a sea of frozen smiles to the premie heads that were turned to watch me in the back row.

Yet, when Raja Ji moved on I graciously abandoned the discussion and only afterwards went up and spoke to him.

But what if there was no question period? Say the whoel thing was presented as a monolithic and slick infomercial? Carefully crafted to give no foothold to questioners, let alone critics? Don't our many years invested in the cult give us some right to confront Maharaji? I mean, just because we didn't pay for this particular hall rental, doesn't the fact that we paid for all the others give us some right to a dialogue with him?

I guess Maharaji can bunker down for the rest of his life. It's a very cowardly, unprincipled tact, though, given all he's suppsedly ever stood for.

I'll just leave you with this. Remember how proud Maharaji used to talk about his own father's reputation for going around India confronting various gurus? What happened?
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Date: Tues, Jun 01, 1999 at 16:01:05 (EDT)
From: Gail
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: I don't think so, Jim!
Message:
Consider this: I have never created a public scene at any event. I would not interrupt the blissful brainwashing whatsoever. I just want the benefit of the 'open door' policy that MJ keeps bragging about (the unconditional love would be nice, too).
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Date: Tues, Jun 01, 1999 at 16:55:07 (EDT)
From: Victoria
Email: None
To: Gail
Subject: I don't think so, Jim!
Message:
Dear Gail,

I know you were talking about M having unconditional love for us, but you know, he doesn't even know who we are! We are the ones who had unconditional love for HIM...he could do anything (and has!) and we would just keep on loving him. Well, some of us have stopped loving him. Guess it was unconditional love, but only for a limited time.

You know, not a leaf drops from a tree without his willing it...remember that? So why do they think you would disrupt a program unless he willed it? Why don't they just surrender to the Master's will on this issue? Sounds like another case of overzealous premies trying to interfere with a pwk's experience. Sheesh!

Love,
Victoria
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Date: Tues, Jun 01, 1999 at 17:50:42 (EDT)
From: cp
Email: None
To: Victoria
Subject: Unconditional
Message:
Does unconditional love equate to unconditional acceptance of all behavior?

As a parent, I really do feel unconditional love for my children.
But as adults if their behavior is not to my liking and they bring it into my home- I feel no obligation to put up with it and have the right to expect them to take their behavior elsewhere.
But doing that does not change my love for them at all.

This is not to defend the fact that Gail was barred. But
unconditional love doesnt mean accepting all behavior.

M never had unconditional love for us. He had unconditional take.
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Date: Tues, Jun 01, 1999 at 22:51:28 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Gail
Subject: Well someone's wrong
Message:
Sandra says:

I'm sure I'm not the only one who remembers you ranting quite violently, often obscenely and definitely insultingly in the loudest possible virtual manner right before the satellite event.

But Gail says:

I have never created a public scene at any event.

So what gives girls? Sandra, you're the accuser so I'd say the onus is on you to particularize your complaint. What do you mean by rant? What exactly did she say? And tell us about these obscenities. Words like 'poo poo'? 'Heck'? 'Fraud'? What was it? And 'loudest possible virtual manner' -- that sounds pretty intense. Could you please explain yourself?
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Date: Tues, Jun 01, 1999 at 23:41:59 (EDT)
From: cp
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Well someone's wrong
Message:
Maybe 'virtual' means via cyberspace in this context.
So Gail would not have made a scene at a public event unless one views this public forum as a public event.
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Date: Wed, Jun 02, 1999 at 05:08:06 (EDT)
From: Gail
Email: None
To: cp
Subject: This site = limited interest
Message:
The only people who would be interested in this site are current/ ex-premies and aspirants. Anyone else would be bored to tears reading this junk. Jeez, you would need a premie-speak dictionary for one thing. The media is not interested in MJ. He doesn't have that many followers left. Have you seen any big spreads on TV or the newspaper about MJ lately?
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Date: Wed, Jun 02, 1999 at 07:35:27 (EDT)
From: cp
Email: None
To: Gail
Subject: This site = limited interest
Message:
Hello Gail

Glad you are speaking to me..That Sandra is a sharp cookie .Wish she was on this side o' the fence.

No I havent seen anything about M in the media for years He tries to stay out of the limelight no doubt.

But that says something to me. It shows me what he prefers and my reflex is to give him the opposite of what he wants.

Of course respectable news media are not interested in an old has-been like him. BUT! praise the lord we have the cheap tabloid type of rags that may print a stupid expose if it is written well.
I think of things like a shot of him in his krisha outfit
placed sort of cockeyed on the cover along with an ariel (sp) shot of the Malibu Palace. With a heading like 'LOCAL GOD MAKES GOOD'

Oh I dont know. Thats probably Dreks area of expertise.
Sheeeet, if Ted Patrick can get interviewed by Playboy why cant Jim?

If the ex premie writers find out what they cant say - then say everything else ----at least it would be some negative publicity for people to read in the check out lane.

One more thing. His name never comes up in social circles without somebody asking what ever happened to that boy guru.
Or they roll their eyes and mumble 'divine light mission.'
I think they should know what he is up to.
But I dont want to stick my neck out and do it myself so maybe I should go polish the silver.

Well I did ramble on here. At least it may serve to get another wrinkle off my chest.
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Date: Wed, Jun 02, 1999 at 07:38:55 (EDT)
From: cp
Email: None
To: Gail
Subject: This site = limited interest
Message:
If tammy baker can get on to those corny talk shows...
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Date: Tues, Jun 01, 1999 at 18:22:34 (EDT)
From: Nim
Email: None
To: Sandra
Subject: Dearest Sandra
Message:
C'mon, you know that's baloney. I'm sure I'm not the only one who remembers you ranting quite violently, often obscenely and definitely insultingly in the loudest possible virtual manner right before the satellite event.

So Sandra sweetheart, tell me this. What about my own ranting and raving? Haven't I been sufficiently violent and obscene enough for you?
Why then, have I received three phone calls inviting me to the Montreal event? Two of them from my official phone tree person, and one from an elderly lady premie who just happens to be in touch with the Amtext office in Miami on a daily basis, and is looking for me to give her a ride to the program.

Ah but you'll say Nim, you just happen to be lucky. Because you've been posting under the pseudonym 'Nim' or 'Nimrod' noone really knows who you are.
But thats bullshit.
Everyone at the Amtext office knew immediately from my very first posts who I was.
'Nimrod' was even a nickname one of the Amtext staffers started to call me(with considerable affection believe it or not)...just before she stopped talking to me(and then of course there was no more considerable affection...speaking of 'unconditional love')
So evey one who counts in Amtext knows who I am, the same for Montreal, and I haven't exactly behaved as a premie choirboy on these pages.
I left around the same time as Gail, we both have had some very strong things to say about m personally and about his trip, both feeling alot of pain and hurt as we've witnessed the dream of our lifetime shatter before our very eyes.
Gail, like myself has never caused a disturbance at an event.
SO,
Why then do I keep getting phone calls inviting me to the event in Montreal? While Gail gets a phone call telling her to stay away?
Sandra, hon...what gives?
Whats the difference between myself and Gail? Why am I so wanted back and Gail virtually shunned aside, banned?
Lets have a vote right now, and see who the good folks here at the forum feel is more mentally stable...me or Gail?
You see my point Sandra. I'd probably come out of this as the bigger looney tune. Fuck,I work hard enough at it.
So, again...my dear, scintillating Sandra...whats the difference between me and Gail?
Sandra, do you think the fact that I left the cult with a little business that used to be tied into Amtext, business that they might like to get back...could that have anything to do with it?
Could all this premie love coming for me be based on nothing more than the fact that I held a key for Amtexts future growth in Canada, and now its gone and they want it back.?
Either by myself crawling home to daddy, or by trying to lure another premie to take me on in the book buying field.
But first they want to see if Joey is coming back.
And that ain't going to happen.

You guys are the slimiest, sleaziest, psych dweeb twerps...led by the true master of slime and dementia for our age.
The stench of your hypocrisy and double standards is enough to make one faint.
One would truly have to search the world extensively to find your kind of hypocrisy and slime.
I suppose another cult would do it.

Nim,
(and just for the record, thats
Joseph Faywlowicz
Montreal, Quebec)

Maybe now, the phone calls will stop.
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Date: Tues, Jun 01, 1999 at 19:30:12 (EDT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Nim
Subject: go Nim go !!! nt
Message:
and I don't mean ''go to the program, er event''
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Date: Tues, Jun 01, 1999 at 19:36:22 (EDT)
From: Gail
Email: None
To: Joey
Subject: Whahooooooo!
Message:
Love ya. As Jim said to me, how does it feel to burn your draft card?
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Date: Wed, Jun 02, 1999 at 15:26:31 (EDT)
From: Gail
Email: None
To: Joey
Subject: Let me blow you a kiss
Message:
SMOOOOOOOOOOOOCH!!
THANKS FOR ALL YOUR SUPPORT!
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Date: Tues, Jun 01, 1999 at 21:45:38 (EDT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Nim
Subject: Go for it, Joey!
Message:
Dear Nim/Joey -
I am SO proud of you! I know how hard it is to 'come out' on the forum (and I do understand why a lot of people don't). Anyway, you're great - congratulations.

Love,
Katie
(a.k.a. Leia)
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Date: Tues, Jun 01, 1999 at 23:17:48 (EDT)
From: KB
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: Don't go ever, Nimmy.
Message:
As a friend, I suggest you remember that cult members can
get violent when they think thier master is attacked.

No need to tempt madness by going to the caged animals
and thinking there is no threat.

Gail is a lady and so is less likely to get hit by the
zealots.
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Date: Wed, Jun 02, 1999 at 12:08:13 (EDT)
From: Katie
Email: mishkat@gateway.net
To: KB
Subject: 'Go' is figurative not literal
Message:
I didn't mean that Nim should actually go anywhere. I'm just proud of him and wanted to be encouraging.
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Date: Wed, Jun 02, 1999 at 15:51:29 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: KB
Subject: Here's how to do it safely
Message:
Joe,

All you have to do is post the fact that you're going, when,where and whatever. Put the details here, email a copy to ELK and M's site and carry a copy with you.

Then take the meeting. No one will bug you.

Is it failproof? No but it's a risk I'd take.

Jim

By the way, I too applaud your 'coming out'. In you case, especially, given some of your recent conflict with Amtext et al. I think you'll find, over time, that it feels really good, to say the least, being a public, named opponent of the

LORD OF THE UNIVERSE

.
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Date: Tues, Jun 01, 1999 at 23:14:10 (EDT)
From: selene
Email: None
To: Nim
Subject: Dearest Sandra
Message:
I remember the first time I 'came out' my email, where I was.
Kind of scary but an act of defiance feels good, doesn't it
Nim? Good goin soldier...
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Date: Sun, May 30, 1999 at 07:09:28 (EDT)
From: Dopey
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Embarrassed
Message:
Hello Forum folk,
I am new to the cyber world but got knowledge more than 20 years ago.
An old friend, who also got k way back then, told me about this forum. I have read some of the journeys and the old posts and would like to congratulate everyone involved for a very well put together exposition of the premie world.
However I am puzzled why so many ex-premies are interested in what goes on in Elan Vital and with Maharaji. Personally, and it seems to go for all the friends I got k. with, I would rather forget how stupid I was to fall for the whole thing. Like believing that wearing the latest fashion would make you 'cool' , taking the best drugs would enhance your perception, doing meditation would raise your consciousness or that Father Christmas would be down the chimney with lots of goodies each year ( provided you had been good - for it was only a lump of coal for bad 'uns) etc. etc.
'When I was a child I spake as a child... but now I leave childish things behind..' I seem to remember some such quote from the Bible (Letters to the Corinthians?)
Now, to admit to my current circle of friends or even my children that I fell into a guru cult makes me look like an idiot. When my daughter sees the 'Maharishi' character on 'Goodnes Gracious Me' ( a British Comedy Show in which a guru talks convoluted rubbish in a mixture of English and Hindi to impress his sheepish followers ) she laughs and laughs. I am embarrassed to admit that I used to be one of those sheepish followers.
I suppose it all taught me something but I can't think what. Maybe a lot of us have to go through some sort of dream chasing before we set ourselves more realistic goals and base our lives on truth rather than wishfull thinking.
It does seem fun debating the issues and taking the mick out of the Guru, but Maharaji is just one of many thousands. Around every corner there is someone telling you that they know a better way for you to live your life and, although I hope that these misleaders will eventually fall by the wayside in the process of natural selection, all the reasonable discussion in the world will never get them to leave their dream world.
For one thing, life must be pretty good with thousands of admirers lavishing you with gifts - it beats working for a living.
I guess having been through all that nonsense in the past has at least taught me to dismiss these and realise that it is up to me to find life's truths through my own studious effort rather than rely on someone elses 'discovery' or supposed enlightenment.
Anyway - I hope that the forum and it's contibutors live long and prosper. Also that it may be of some help to those who are sitting on the fence - it's good to have an opposing view to consider - it may prevent a few people wasting their time and later suffering the embarrassment that I now feel when I remember the premie years.
Good Luck
Dan
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Date: Sun, May 30, 1999 at 16:03:15 (EDT)
From: Liz
Email: None
To: Dopey
Subject: Embarrassed
Message:
Hi Dopey,

Welcome to the forum. I was intrigued by programme you mentioned,'Goodness Gracious Me.' Sound a hoot. How long has it been running in the U.K?
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Date: Tues, Jun 01, 1999 at 02:58:13 (EDT)
From: Victoria
Email: None
To: Dopey
Subject: Embarrassed
Message:
Hi Dan,

I'm interested in this topic of telling your children about your time with M...have you told them? Will you tell them? How old are your children?

I have told some of my friends and associates about those days...it seems easier on me as the time passes, hell, we all did some foolish things in the 70's...people are more forgiving when they see it as a passing youthful fantasy.

I think many of the exes who post here gave it their youth and a bit of their middle age as well...I don't know, I figured a year and a half WAS an honest try. Thank god for my transient upbringing. You know, for that year and a half I went as deep as I could go and as honestly.

In the 80s I took a regular beating from the non-premie masses. What I used to shout on the streets, I learned to keep as a guarded secret, only to reveal to my most trusted friends, if I ever hoped to be taken seriously about anything. I had to prove myself first, you know, to avoid dismissal early on.

Anyway, I hope to protect my children from people like M. Any ideas? On the best-drugs issue, I've used the example of someone close to me who lost everything as a result of drug use. I don't think drugs are going to be a problem for us. As for Father Christmas, the kids at school have solved that one for us, all I had to do was throw in a talk about the Spirit of Giving and don't spoil it for the little ones. I have no trouble honestly discussing the joys and dangers of sex. But, hot-damn if I can't figure the way to approach this years-with-m thing and how to protect my children from such damaging exploitation.

Sincerely,
Victoria
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Date: Tues, Jun 01, 1999 at 13:36:15 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Victoria
Subject: Embrace your embarrasment
Message:
I know this sounds a little 'new age' but I've always found there's no better strategy than simply owning up, admitting the folly and saving some of the best laughs for yourself. You paid the price, why should others get all the good jokes?
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Date: Tues, Jun 01, 1999 at 17:11:58 (EDT)
From: Victoria
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Embrace your embarrasment
Message:
Dear Jim,

I don't know whether or not you have kids, but can you imagine half the neighborhood kids running up to you and saying, 'Did you really drink his bathwater?' and 'Did you really kiss his feet?' The other half of the neighborhood kids are pointing and giggling. I have lots of neighborhood kids hanging out here most of the time. I don't think I've got enough distance yet to withstand the embarrassment -- you know, 'the cruelty of children' translating as the honesty of children (as in 'You have a big nose!' and such).

Anyway, I'm going to work on it. Thanks.

Love, Victoria
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Date: Tues, Jun 01, 1999 at 22:56:54 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Victoria
Subject: Embrace your embarrasment
Message:
Victoria,

If the kids started giving me a hard time about drinking his bathwater I'd tell them about sex and really feak them out. Little buggers.
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Date: Tues, Jun 01, 1999 at 20:23:16 (EDT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Dopey
Subject: Embarrassed
Message:
Hi Dan,

When did you escape? (I'll have to check to see if you've done a 'Journey').

I've got two sons, now 23 and 21, who've grown up with the premie trip going on all around them. I'm really pleased that my wife and I never tried to lay the Maharaji trip on them. They've seen all sides of it, including going down to the residence and playing with Maharaji's children a couple of times. (They were very hospitable and friendly by the way). They saw the whole meditation, arti, stuff, went to programmes, and are, in a way, partly a product of that culture. They've come through it fine. The eldest came back from a year travelling, and stayed with some premies near Amaroo for a while. He got home having decided to receive knowledge. I gave him my journey to read, and told him I now thought it was a cult (wonderfuly defined from lots of angles above). Fortunately I got through, and he's given up wanting knowledge.

Anyway, I think, 'what the hell, tell them the truth,

', yes I was in bloody cult once. We really thought this bloke was god. Well... it was the end of the 60s...you ever hear of LSD?...read the Bhagavad Gita?...you see, I was tripping at Glastonbury in 71 when this flying saucer landed behind our tent and this golden boy got out...the next thing I knew it was 1983, I was married, living in Brixton with two kids and in a cult...'

what the hell, it works for me.

Anth the Confessor.
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Date: Sun, May 30, 1999 at 03:27:01 (EDT)
From: spartakus
Email: head count
To: Everyone
Subject: anticrist crused
Message:
His claim 'i will bring peace to this world' .... is holding the world from having peace. its been said, that only after the anticrist is gone, the real savior comes and brings peace to this earth. we need to unit, and the first step, is a head count. our power is in our #s . moneys ,proofs, advocats,will be ther when we will need them .and remembr a3k jurney starts with 1 littel step. we need peace now ,and we can get it.....SO DEAR LOVERS OF GOD POST YOUR COUNT . .THANKS IN ADVANCE SPARTAKUS.
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Date: Sun, May 30, 1999 at 04:01:37 (EDT)
From: cp
Email: None
To: spartakus
Subject: anticrist crused
Message:
spark this wouldnt have anything to do with the 144000 would it??
what kind of a count do you want?

Also if you tell me your mother lanuage, it may help me to understand how you think.
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Date: Sun, May 30, 1999 at 10:32:52 (EDT)
From: spartakus
Email: the truth
To: cp
Subject: anticrist crused
Message:
Hi Cp! dont try to box me in one of your conceptial boxes. 144000 ? I thought you were much more observent.my moms language is the primordial vibration. my post is simple .need to know how many of us are out there. I SPARTAKUS AND I HAVE SPOKEN.
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Date: Sun, May 30, 1999 at 15:54:49 (EDT)
From: Gail
Email: None
To: spartakus
Subject: anticrist crused
Message:
Is this Hansia?
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Date: Sun, May 30, 1999 at 17:33:10 (EDT)
From: cp
Email: None
To: spartakus
Subject: +_=#
Message:
oh sparka cuss
did not mean to rile you.
These days when someone brings up antichrist and counting people in the same pargraph it CAN mean that they refer to the bible where the angels counted 144000 - and thats how many they were going to save. Ask any Jesusfreak.
If that looks like a conceptual box to you oh great one
then so be it.
Count me out of your old head count if you cant see the sense in me asking that question.
By the way, nice spelling that time.
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Date: Sun, May 30, 1999 at 00:06:03 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: ELISA CABAL EXPOSED AT LAST!
Message:
Someone called 'older premie' --sorry, OLDER PREMIE -- posted this urgent protest over on CD's premie forum. You know, there are moments when I almost feel sorry for the fat, greasy hamster. This isn't one of them though. No, I feel sorry for Elisa Cabal! Whoever she is, she's obviously just doing her service or something and this dear brother can't accept that. Who is she anyway? Anyone know?

AFTER AN EXTRAORDINARY PRESENTATION IN MIAMI ONCE AGAIN NEGATIVE PREMIE ATTITUDE ELISA CABAL STOPS PEOPLE FROM RECEIVING KNOWLEDGE THAT HAVE BEEN PREPARED FOR YEARS
THIS IS WHAT RUINED DIVINE LIGHT MISSION
THIS IS WHAT IS DIRT IN THE EYES OF KNOWLEDGE
ELISA CABAL A BITCH MAN HATING POWERTRIPPER STOPS PEOPLE FROM REALIZING INITIATION
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Date: Sun, May 30, 1999 at 00:08:01 (EDT)
From: Mary M
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: ELISA CABAL EXPOSED AT LAST!
Message:
Jim,

Do you think this was a serious post;-)

Mary
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Date: Sun, May 30, 1999 at 00:10:05 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Mary M
Subject: ELISA CABAL EXPOSED AT LAST!
Message:
Do you think this was a serious post;-)

Well I know mine was. No, I think it was serious. We'll know more if someone tells us who Elisa is.
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Date: Sun, May 30, 1999 at 03:50:25 (EDT)
From: Wm
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: over at CD's? didn't c it.(nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Mon, May 31, 1999 at 23:45:54 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Wm
Subject: CD removed it
Message:
Ask him, Wm. It was there yesterday (or the day before).
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Date: Tues, Jun 01, 1999 at 00:20:50 (EDT)
From: Wm
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: CD removed it
Message:
I did.

Damn, just did a 79 percentage on the unofficial Mensa workout, I'll never amount to anything.

Wm
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Date: Tues, Jun 01, 1999 at 01:35:36 (EDT)
From: cp
Email: None
To: Wm
Subject: CD removed it
Message:
You may have to warm up a bit. There are exercise books to develop those muscles, if thats what you are into.
That test is not too hard.
Never try it when Mercury is in the wrong aspect to yours.
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Date: Tues, Jun 01, 1999 at 01:57:46 (EDT)
From: Wm
Email: None
To: cp
Subject: handyman
Message:
Actually, I probably do need to do it.

Had a programming job, rm/cobol, snuck into it from the mail room, most of my work history is manual. Company folded and I went back to the manual work.

Every once in while, but has been a long time now, I go to apply for a DP job and most of the time they have those 'tests' that I don't do very well at.
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Date: Sun, May 30, 1999 at 10:21:43 (EDT)
From: ELISA CANNIBAL EXPOSED
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: AT LAST AS SHE CONTINUES TO
Message:
KNAW AT THE HUMAN SPIRIT OF LONG-TERM ASPIRANTS. See her for what she is--one of Maharaji's sadists with a position of power.
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Date: Sun, May 30, 1999 at 12:06:19 (EDT)
From: Mary M
Email: None
To: ELISA CANNIBAL EXPOSED
Subject: AT LAST AS SHE CONTINUES TO
Message:
Hi All,

Perhaps Elisa the cannibal is the official EV Credit/Reference reporter. Couldn't you just envision her with PIII laptop in a back room running background and credit history research on each aspirant?

'So what, you've watch six hundred hours of video. Equifax has rejected your application for the official Visions International Uplink/Downlink eCard. You're outta here bud. Next aspirant please.'

Contrary Mary
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Date: Sun, May 30, 1999 at 12:10:33 (EDT)
From: Gail
Email: None
To: Mary M
Subject: AT LAST AS SHE CONTINUES TO
Message:
That's funny!
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Date: Sun, May 30, 1999 at 16:55:06 (EDT)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: Gail
Subject: Cabal
Message:
Sounds like the poster was asked to travel to one too many continents in order to receive the true knowledge.
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Date: Mon, May 31, 1999 at 11:47:03 (EDT)
From: Liz
Email: None
To: Jean
Subject: AT LAST AS SHE CONTINUES TO
Message:
Do you know why most instructors go around the country with lap-top computers. What are they doing?

I wonder how Eliza became an instructor?

Thanks for the information.

Liz
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Date: Mon, May 31, 1999 at 03:24:50 (EDT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Elisa Cabal's an instructor
Message:
She's one of the most recent instructors.
She's from south-am, has been living in LA for years, old timer.

jm
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Date: Tues, Jun 01, 1999 at 16:32:24 (EDT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Hey Jim
Message:
Jim: They've lowered the bar again...... Read the post, he says 'REALIZING INITIATION'..... You don't 'realize K' anymore, now you realize the initiation! Will the search for mediocrity never cease?
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Date: Sat, May 29, 1999 at 19:36:58 (EDT)
From: SPARTAKUS
Email: NA
To: Everyone
Subject: THE GIFT
Message:
THE DROP OF LIFE THAT GOD HAVE PLACED WITHIN ME , BELONGS TO HIM . AND ONLY HIM .NO OTHER BEING CAN CLAIM OWNERSHIP ON IT NOT EVEN ME .THATS GOD GIFT TO ME.
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Date: Sat, May 29, 1999 at 20:19:49 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: SPARTAKUS
Subject: Quit shouting
Message:
Spartakus,

I'm not sure what you're saying but could you please drop the block letters? Hard to read. Thanks.
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Date: Sat, May 29, 1999 at 20:56:24 (EDT)
From: Catweasel
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Your Shout,I'll have a Beer!
Message:
He's just discovered the caps key!
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Date: Sat, May 29, 1999 at 22:11:01 (EDT)
From: Gail
Email: None
To: Catweasel
Subject: You Shout, I'll have a Coffee!
Message:
Do you know Misha?
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Date: Sun, May 30, 1999 at 10:07:24 (EDT)
From: Catweasel
Email: None
To: Gail
Subject: You Shout, I'll have a Coffee!
Message:
I know several
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Date: Sun, May 30, 1999 at 01:21:30 (EDT)
From: spartakus
Email: the truth.com
To: Catweasel
Subject: vintage of 74 was very good
Message:
wis wis ! el salam alecum! what I forgat,you did not learn yet . and if u think that this is shouting you have not heard nothint yet. in hindi they will call you MANMAT!!!!! NOW YOU ARE ASKING WHAT MANMAT MEANS. I think you shuld ask prem pal about hans's manmat. by the way thos are not CAPS
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Date: Sat, May 29, 1999 at 16:43:45 (EDT)
From: Mike
Email: faquat@hotmail.com
To: Everyone
Subject: Don't Know
Message:
I received knowledge in 1972, and attended every event I could from Soul Rush to the closing of DECA, but haven't seen M in a couple of years. I have questioned and justified many things concerning M over the years, but I still don't know if he is real or a fake. I also don't know how to make that determination. So for now I will remain hidden in the North Carolina hills.
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Date: Sat, May 29, 1999 at 16:47:09 (EDT)
From: VMAN
Email: vman@yahoo.com
To: Mike
Subject: Don't Know
Message:
Just Think, dummy.
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Date: Sat, May 29, 1999 at 17:25:28 (EDT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Mike
Subject: Don't Know
Message:
Hi Mike,

Welcome to the forum. I don't know who this VMAN is but I doubt you're any dumber than the rest of us who were sucked into M's cult. It's a lot of brainwashing and programming to get over, that's for sure. Hang around for a while, I think you'll get your answer. Also, check out the ''jouneys'' section if you get a chance.

PS Love those NC hills...

PPS We have one ''Mike'' here already, so you might want to add another initial to differentiate yourself. And don't step into the catweasel shit. :-)
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Date: Sat, May 29, 1999 at 21:18:35 (EDT)
From: cp
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Don't Know
Message:
Hello Mike
vman sounds a bit uptight.
Glad you are watching.
The archives make for good reading in addition to the journeys.
It took me weeks of reading the forum to sort out where I
was at.
Just about every thought or feeling was on the screen for me to view.
I also did not push the process of reaching my own conclusion except for to keep reading and contemplating how it fit in with my own experience.
It is a good thing to challenge a mind set that has been in place for that long.
Welcome
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Date: Sat, May 29, 1999 at 23:40:30 (EDT)
From: Walter
Email: None
To: Mike
Subject: Don't Know
Message:
Hi Mike, the North Carolina hills are a beautiful thing, not worth leaving for Maharaji.

As far as I'm concerned Maharaji's a businessman. He's not interested in anything but his own agenda; which is to glorify his ego, and keep himself and his family in lavish creature comforts.

If he was the real deal he'd be out there walking among the people, the poor and physically suffering. Like Mother Theresa or Jesus Christ. Instead he uses his knowledge to hump the golden calf and distance himself from the common people.

You're not missing anything. If a relationship with God is what you want, the North Carolina hills can facilitate that better than Maharaji. Commune with the creation and you'll get to know the creator.

Prempal Rawat is the plastic fantastic, phantasmagoria unchained.
You ask how do you make that determination? You will know the true one by his acts, if in fact there is a true one, and maharaji's behavior speaks for itself.

He is and imperfect master.
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Date: Sun, May 30, 1999 at 00:20:51 (EDT)
From: KB
Email: None
To: Mike
Subject: Don't Know
Message:
Hello Mike, some of us here were also at DECA.
Don't fergit, he said he was the lord, the ultimate ruler,
and boldly claimed to be the almighty in person.

Updateing you will take a bit of time but he has proven
he isnt the LORD and also he has proven by his own behavior
that he doesn't understand life and even how to behave.

By the way, his mom, mata ji, died after 17 years of him
shunning her and makeing smart remarks about her.

'eldest' bro balbhagwan is now off about the globe saying
he is the guru and never mentions having a prem rawat
brother when he lists his life info.

prem rawats daughter that he had with raja ji's wife
named 'navlata' is about 21 now.

Joan Apter has been reduced to using 'knowledge' as
....well, you have to see her write it in her own
words..., she is a spent carcass pathetically
lurching along in her life.
The devotee/gopi is long ago crushed under the weight
of evidence and she is left with a lost lifetime
and a resigned alligience to her 'master' tormentor.

and more....
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Date: Sun, May 30, 1999 at 00:31:14 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: KB
Subject: Bill, is this true or what?
Message:
prem rawats daughter that he had with raja ji's wife
named 'navlata' is about 21 now.


You know, I thought of asking Rob to ask his friend, Raja Ji, about this rumour too but held off. Really, Bill, how do you know this is true? If you've got the evidence, please spell it out (if you already have for give me, I jsut don't remember.) It's not fair to fling such wild allegations around without some substantiation, is it?

Cause if it is true, I'll gladly follow up with Rob. The implications are staggering far and beyond any privacy concerns.
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Date: Sun, May 30, 1999 at 00:43:51 (EDT)
From: KB
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: I say yes
Message:
And it HAS been elaborated here more than once. Just
see what Rob has to say.

I really like this new set up Brian provided.
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Date: Sun, May 30, 1999 at 17:36:47 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: KB
Subject: Rob?
Message:
Hi Rob,

Did you see Raja Ji this weekend? Did you give him my two posts? What'd he say? Hm?

Also, Bill seems to think that M is Nevlata's real father. Know anything about this?
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Date: Mon, May 31, 1999 at 00:50:32 (EDT)
From: Rob
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Oh Mr Postman, look and see...
Message:
Yes, yes and nothing.

Also, cheap shot on Bill's part. Evidence?
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Date: Mon, May 31, 1999 at 11:37:45 (EDT)
From: KB
Email: None
To: Rob
Subject: Oh Mr Postman, look and see...
Message:
We have some prem rawat DNA samples, can you get a strand of
navlata hair?
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Date: Mon, May 31, 1999 at 11:41:40 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Rob
Subject: That's it?
Message:
Yes, yes and nothing.

Thanks, Rob. Pleasure doing business with you.
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Date: Sun, May 30, 1999 at 17:31:27 (EDT)
From: Robyn
Email: sundogs@hotmail.com
To: Mike
Subject: Don't Know
Message:
Dear Mike,
I hope you read here and that it helps you clarify things about M for you. Welcome. :)
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Tues, Jun 01, 1999 at 10:48:14 (EDT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Mike
Subject: The name's taken
Message:
Mike: Could you use a different moniker, please? Just a slight change? I've beenusing it for quite some time and I don't want your posts and mine to be confused with one another, ok?

THANKS!
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Date: Sat, May 29, 1999 at 16:28:18 (EDT)
From: Powerman
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Niggling Feeling
Message:
Does anyone remember that funny feeling they got when they were a premie, talking about the guru or knowledge? That feeling of lying or not telling the truth, despite giving their all and devoting themselves?
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Date: Sat, May 29, 1999 at 20:54:41 (EDT)
From: nigel
Email: nigel@redcrow.demon.co.uk
To: Powerman
Subject: Like it was yesterday...
Message:
Does anyone remember that funny feeling they got when they were a premie, talking about the guru or knowledge? That feeling of lying or not telling the truth, despite giving their all and devoting themselves?

Yup.
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Date: Sat, May 29, 1999 at 22:55:04 (EDT)
From: Gerry
Email: None
To: nigel
Subject: Like it was yesterday...
Message:
I remember this particular incident in Harrisbur PA, USA, in the ashram feeling this cognitive dissonance. Two middle aged ladies came in for satsang and this one guy, Richard, a jewish guy ( why were there so many jews and catholics into GM?) anyway, he was from Longisland and these two nice seeker ladies pinned him down on just who he thought Goober was and in the end he said ''God'' as was the party line at the time and I remember wincing. The ladies packed it up at this point and were satisfied that this was not for them. Poor Richard. Face full of pimples and he used to borrow my razor and I would get pissed at him. Well , hell, it was staph infection and I sure as helll didn't want it. He was a gentle and kind soul and a great musician as well. He played saxophone and guitar like a natural. I wonder what happened to him and how he made out in life.
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Date: Sat, May 29, 1999 at 16:11:43 (EDT)
From: spartakus
Email: non
To: Everyone
Subject: jim and tami BAKER
Message:
REMEMBER JIM & TAMI MISAPPROPRAION OF FUNDS TRIAL. ITHINK THAT IF THE ATHORITIES WILL START AN INVESTIGATION THEY WILL FIND EVIDENCE ON THE SUBJECT .IMAGAIN FATSOS FACE WHEN HE GET SERVED WITH PEPERS FROM THE FEDS. AND LAST BUT NOT LIST IN WAR EVREY THING IS FAIR!!!
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Date: Sat, May 29, 1999 at 16:48:16 (EDT)
From: cp
Email: None
To: spartakus
Subject: jim and tami BAKER
Message:
Hey spartacus
When letters are capitalized , its like they are shouting.
Its easy to read one word if it is yelled , but not a whole paragraph.
You are very fired up.
If you ever get to the really old archives, you will see that I also found it very frustrating when the whole forum didt see the similarities between the bakers and DLM.
It still seems to me that the set up is similar enough to pursue.

The other avenue is to put together a series of articles and offer it to the tabloids. When they have the off season, they will print everything. Something like 'Bakers shining example for boy guru'

The forum is only one thing that is going on.
If you dont see alot of dialogue about legal proceedings on the forum dont assume it is not happening.

Can you get the details on the Baker case?
All I remember is that they solicited funds via the television preachin program and they were lining their nest in Florida with the $. Even the dog house. I heard Tammy on a talk show telling about it. She is on them quite a bit. She has dumped Tommy.
This was with donations the followers gave with the faith that the Bakers were using the money to spread the Message.

Also on another note, I do note the difference in grammer and
punctuation between your first post and this last one!

And I would be interested in info about the bakers.

Keep the fire stoked
cp
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Date: Sat, May 29, 1999 at 17:33:36 (EDT)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: Spartakus
Subject: jim and tami BAKER
Message:
Hi Spartakus. I think you are great. What cp says is true --- don't assume that legal proceedings haven't started against M. They may have but people just don't talk about it publicly. When were you involved, and where, if you want to tell.
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Date: Sat, May 29, 1999 at 15:38:58 (EDT)
From: Brian
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Forum III with Frames
Message:
I've been working on a frames version of the scripts this week. It seems to be working right, but email me if you find any problems with it. You will need a browser that supports frames and javascript (most do now). I'm using Netscape 3.0 myself, and it looks okay.

This is an optional way of reading and posting, so you don't have to use it. However, I had to create a different URL (script name) for this version so you can't bounce back and forth between full-screen and frames and still have your visited links follow along with you. On your first use, you'll find that ALL of the posts are displayed as being un-read. There's no way around that.

The screen has two sizeable frames: an index frame, and a message frame (used for posting too). You can still click on next and previous messages when reading, but you can also choose to skip over posts or threads entirely by selecting from the index frame.

After reading a post, the URL in the index frame doesn't show up as being a visited link immediately (at least in my browser). You can force an 'update' to the index frame by clicking on the divider between the frames (or moving it slightly - clicking is faster).

The URL is: Forum III - Frames Version.

Enjoy :)
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Date: Sat, May 29, 1999 at 16:28:21 (EDT)
From: Gerry
Email: None
To: Brian
Subject: Forum III with Frames
Message:
Cool, Bri, nice job. Hope you stick around after you turn the keys over to Barney.
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Date: Sat, May 29, 1999 at 18:40:45 (EDT)
From: mw
Email: None
To: Brian
Subject: Forum III with Frames
Message:
Hey, great, I don't care what they say, I think you are a pretty smart fellow.
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Date: Sat, May 29, 1999 at 21:23:22 (EDT)
From: cp
Email: None
To: mw
Subject: What will they think of next!
Message:
this is great.
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Date: Sat, May 29, 1999 at 22:49:31 (EDT)
From: Walter
Email: None
To: Brian
Subject: Forum III with Frames
Message:
Very cool. You can read a single post on the right side while still viewing the entire active index on the left side. Saves time in going back and forth between posts and allows you to see a whole thread while reading posts from that thread. Ingenious.
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Date: Sat, May 29, 1999 at 23:01:33 (EDT)
From: Walter
Email: None
To: Brian
Subject: Forum III with Frames Error
Message:
I posted in this thread on the Forum III with Frames and it looked good, but then returned to this Non-frame format and did'nt see my post. Got and ERROR message on the Forum III with Frames that said 'Submitted Form With No Stamp'? But my post can be Read from Forum with Frames but not Forum without Frames.

Hope I'm making sense here, I know you probably still have some bugs to work out. But if you read my message on the Forum with Frames you'll see I think it's a pretty cool design.
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Date: Sat, May 29, 1999 at 23:04:08 (EDT)
From: Walter
Email: None
To: Brian
Subject: Disregard Last Message
Message:
Disregard my last message, as you can see it has now appeared on the Non-Frame Forum. My mistake.
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Date: Sat, May 29, 1999 at 23:26:31 (EDT)
From: cp
Email: None
To: Walter
Subject: Disregard Last Message
Message:
'Disragrd Last Message' did not come up on the left side screen .

Question: when the framed window is on my screen, does the left frame ( the one with the threads) stay current?
Is it possible to read successive messages and go back to a particular thread listed ont he left and see new messages that popped on while I was reading a thread?
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Date: Sat, May 29, 1999 at 23:27:40 (EDT)
From: cp
Email: None
To: cp
Subject: Disregard Last Message
Message:
did come up.
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Date: Sat, May 29, 1999 at 23:48:12 (EDT)
From: Walter
Email: None
To: cp
Subject: Very Funny...
Message:
It got you also cp, you'll have to ask Brian those other questions cause I really don't know.
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Date: Sun, May 30, 1999 at 00:35:58 (EDT)
From: Brian
Email: None
To: cp
Subject: Reloading the index
Message:
when the framed window is on my screen, does the left frame (the one with the threads) stay current?
Is it possible to read successive messages and go back to a particular thread listed ont he left and see new messages that popped on while I was reading a thread?

No. The index frame contains ONLY the information received from the script the last time the browser asked for it (when it first loaded maybe). So you have to reload.

You can reload the entire screen by clicking on your browser's Reload (or Refresh) button. This will cause the index frame to be reloaded when the rest of the screen reloads.

You can also reload just the index frame. Click anywhere in that frame to 'select' the frame. (You should see a dark outline appear at the frame dividers of the 'selected' frame. Don't click on a post URL though.) After you've selected the index frame, you can reload it by selecting 'Reload Frame' under the 'View' option on the Netscape menu.
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Date: Sat, May 29, 1999 at 23:48:18 (EDT)
From: Mary M
Email: None
To: Brian
Subject: Forum III with Frames
Message:
Hi Brian,

This is great!

Thank You!
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Date: Sat, May 29, 1999 at 11:25:39 (EDT)
From: Maharaji really missed
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: the boat. He should have
Message:
used some of the ex-premies on this site when he had the chance. Some of them are geniuses. Perhaps they could have helped him to delay his downfall. He never was too good at seing anyone's genius except his own.

I wonder who is pulling his strings these days? These latest modifications in procedures are bound to get him into more trouble. He should hire in consultants because he and his minions are running out of creative ideas.

Next, we'll be able to watch his shows on the all-religions channel. Remember when he did that spoof about the evangelists. 'And when the Lord comes, will you be ready?' Don't worry, Maharaji. We're ready for you.
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Date: Sat, May 29, 1999 at 17:30:41 (EDT)
From: Walter
Email: None
To: Maharaji really missed
Subject: He Missed The Boat!
Message:
Actually I think M did alot of mismanagement back in the late 70's and early 80's. He had alot of people eating out of his hands back in the 1970's They would have done anything for him in their youthful exuberance. They would have literally given their life for him, and many did.

Rawat blew it because he did'nt know what to do with all these people who were giving their lives to him. He set himself up as Lord of the Universe, but could'nt live up to it. So he blamed it on the devotees of the 1970's and said they made a religon out of it. When in truth he just could'nt manage what was happening. Now the truth comes out; he says he never wanted to be a master, he is not a GOD or Lord, etc. Well he sure encouraged the Godhead thing in the 70's, and if the devotees made it into a religon it's only due to his misguidance,misdirection and confused teachings.

M blew it because he does'nt know what the fuck he's doing! He was thrown into the perfect master business when he was 13, got into a major fight with his family over it, they rejected him, he assimilated into western culture and tried to become and American, got citizenship but was largely rejected by western devotees. The man had a golden opportunity back in the 70's to do something great, and for a while he was some kind of a humanitarian, but he blew it. Got selfish, Got greedy.

Those of you who know what the normal curve is will understand when I say M reached his peak back in the 70's. He is now on the downside. He was established in the west but he blew it, and I don't think he'll ever re-establish himself like he did back in the 70's. This pay-per-view thing is just his attempt to de-centralize his operation and gain another source of income, but it will also further dissipate his operation. He needs money to keep his airplanes running, and I don't think they're fully paid up. He has alot of other expenses as well. He is going to have to find new income sources to maintain his current lifestyle.

If the guy was really simple, as he likes to always claim, he would'nt need a lavish lifestyle. Look at the Dali Lama. He has more devotees than M, and he lives a simple lifestyle. Rawat blew it because he's greedy,he came to the west to make a monetary profit and setup the lifestyle he's living today. Sid Auther (sp) was a Prince, who gave up his gold and silver, his worldly castles and riches, and became Buddah. M does not need to live the way he does today in order to spread his so-called knowledge. He needs to be humbled. He blew it because of his arrogance.
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Date: Sun, May 30, 1999 at 00:30:57 (EDT)
From: KB
Email: None
To: Walter
Subject: So did sid arthur
Message:
You are right.
I agree with your analysis but you grant sid arthur
completely underserved status.
You are are only guilty of not knowing enough about him.
The buddha-sid arthur, was a confused idiot who badly
mispercieved life.
The proof of that is in his own words and deeds.
As told by his closest followers.
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Date: Sun, May 30, 1999 at 02:54:29 (EDT)
From: Walter
Email: None
To: KB
Subject: So did sid arthur
Message:
Where are you getting your information on sid arthur? What literature, etc. I'd be interested in broading my understanding, dare I say knowledge, of him.
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Date: Sat, May 29, 1999 at 21:52:23 (EDT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: david.studio57@btinternet.com
To: Maharaji really missed
Subject: the boat. He should have
Message:
I think that these days he's getting a lot of advice from business consultants. The slick image, the buzz-words etc are all indicative of such advice having been acted upon.

Yeah, Maharaji really blew it when he failed to realise my potential.
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Date: Sun, May 30, 1999 at 04:08:07 (EDT)
From: cp
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: the boat. He should have
Message:
Well if you mean Siddartha- the book by Herman Hesse by that name is a nice story. I dont know how factual it is.
He also makes an appearance in the movie the Little Buddah aka Keauna Reeves (sp)

He
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Date: Sun, May 30, 1999 at 21:49:19 (EDT)
From: Walter
Email: None
To: cp
Subject: Thanks cp
Message:
For the reference and the correct spelling. Yes I saw the movie, thought it was well done.
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Date: Sat, May 29, 1999 at 10:59:36 (EDT)
From: spartakus
Email: na
To: Everyone
Subject: rajnish
Message:
rem. what hapend to raj nish i think fatso is going to have it to . we are working on it....
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Date: Sat, May 29, 1999 at 11:27:34 (EDT)
From: Gail
Email: None
To: spartakus
Subject: rajnish
Message:
Hi Sparky:

What happened to Rajnish?
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Date: Sat, May 29, 1999 at 11:41:33 (EDT)
From: Catweasel
Email: None
To: Gail
Subject: rajnish
Message:
He died,in Poona India,in the late 1980's
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Date: Sat, May 29, 1999 at 11:53:05 (EDT)
From: spartakus
Email: deportation
To: Gail
Subject: rajnish =prem pal
Message:
hi gail!!! forgat how he run across the country , was deported back to india. lardo deserv the same . it will take place when the authorritis (i.n.s i.r.s the feds) willget involved all is needed is a small spark, to ignit the fire under fatsos ass.
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Date: Sat, May 29, 1999 at 11:39:39 (EDT)
From: Catweasel
Email: Orange Bliss
To: spartakus
Subject: rajnish/YOU MEAN RAJNEESH!!!!!
Message:
Raj Neesh ,dear boy!Former Dean of Philosophy at Mumbai University,specialising in Logic.This is avery long bow your drawing here Sparkler my learned friend!!So don the orange robes,you bright little sanyassin ,and ask afew more questions about ole Rajneeshand perhaps the mighty Ma Sheila?And why did they wear those beads,worship sexual contact openly,and dearly love ole Raj?Remember he use to be an academic specializing in LOGIC.I know Sparky, its a real conundrum; is'nt it?
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Date: Sat, May 29, 1999 at 11:55:48 (EDT)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: Gail
Subject: The orange people
Message:
He and his higher ups were investigated for poisoing the food at a restaurant in Antelope, Oregon. The orange people took over the town of Antelope and changed its name to Rajneeshpuram. They tried to poison the few locals who stayed around. Ma Anand Sheela and several other higher ups ran off to Europe and India with tons of money the cult had amassed. Several of them were prosecuted in federal court in Oregon (where I was a federal public defender at the time --- I know the attorneys who represented these guys) for conspiring to kill the United States Attorney for Oregon --- the head federal prosecutor in the state.
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Date: Sat, May 29, 1999 at 12:04:27 (EDT)
From: Sid nigh
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: The orange people
Message:
Come on Marianne HE wasn't.He'd already returned to India at that stage.Your right about Ma sheila and her friends though.
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Date: Sat, May 29, 1999 at 12:11:26 (EDT)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: Sid nigh
Subject: Rajneesh was investigated
Message:
Rajneesh himself was DEFINATELY one of the targets of the federal investigation. And Ma Sheela and others did years in federal prison for their illegal activities.
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Date: Sat, May 29, 1999 at 12:21:40 (EDT)
From: Sid Nigh
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: Rajneesh was investigated
Message:
Maybe so but dont make it sound like he was there .He was long gone.....Making him an easy target for young ambitious parasitic lawyers like you were!Answer the question 'Was he convicted of any crime'Did he serve time in a federal US Prison?Was he detained in a State Penitentiary ?
There is no comparison in any case.
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Date: Sat, May 29, 1999 at 12:34:03 (EDT)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: Sid Nigh
Subject: Re-read my posts
Message:
I never said that Rajneesh went to prison, I said he was the target of the investigation. And, if memory serves me correctly, he was forced by federal authorities to leave the US because of the shenanigans that occurred at Rajneeshpuram. Those who were the closest to him did the time.
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Date: Sat, May 29, 1999 at 13:10:24 (EDT)
From: spartakus
Email: na
To: Marianne
Subject: raj neesh===prem pal
Message:
thir are maney similar links between prem pal and raj neesh i would like to start aclass action suit against fatso , get the media involved ,ithink the would love it
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Date: Sat, May 29, 1999 at 15:26:56 (EDT)
From: Marianne
Email: MarianneDB@aol.com
To: spartakus
Subject: raj neesh===prem pal
Message:
Hey Spartakus, what do you think the similarities are between Rajneesh and M? I'm interested to know what you think. Post it here.

As far as the class action suit, you've seen my posts about not discussing things that are confidential on the net. Send me an email. I am sure that people close to M who read the Forum are very interested to know what our thinking is about starting litigation. I just don't know if it's worth the bother, expense, let alone what the basis for the lawsuit would be. I think if there is any problem for M, it might come from the tax people, just like Sun Myung Moon. Just speculating, of course.
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Date: Sat, May 29, 1999 at 16:33:21 (EDT)
From: Walter
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Bagwan Shri Rajneesh
Message:
He was another one who his devotees thought was GOD. Had his own town; Rajineeshpuram, in Oregon. Never went to prison but was deported on a number of things, including violation of U.S. Tax Laws. The people of Oregon, non-followers, Christians and the like, were the one's who went after him. He died in India as eariler stated, but he still has alot of devotees today here in the U.S. One of Rajineeshes biggies was Tantra Yoga and Primal Scream, he had alot of different practices/techniques for his followers, and yes he did give DARSHAN, that is according to his devotees.

Rajineesh got booted back in the time when all these cult leaders were very visible, posters on the walls, heavy propagation, etc. around that time M went rather low key. If M were highly visible and pissed off the general public, like Rajineese, then he would have a big backlash and bring-down. Most cults today have gone low-key, that is compared to the way they were in the 70's and early 80's. Rajineese had a huge following all over the world. I used to hang with some of his orange clad devotees. They wore orange because they thought this color increased their energy level. Mostly a nice bunch of people.
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Date: Sun, May 30, 1999 at 18:52:21 (EDT)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: Walter
Subject: Bagwan Shri Rajneesh
Message:
The public story from the criminal proceedings in federal court in Oregon about Rajneesh can be found in law books at United States v. Sally Croft, 124 F.3d 1109 (9th Cir. 1997). There were lots of insiders who became snitches in order to keep from going to federal prison for their misdeeds while they were members of the cult.
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Date: Sun, May 30, 1999 at 00:39:56 (EDT)
From: KB
Email: None
To: Sid Nigh
Subject: wrong again sid
Message:
rajneesh was hauled off a plane in the american soulth
while fleeing the country and spent weeks in a federal
slammer.
He made a deal to not come back to the US and the feds let
him out but not until he was punished.
Whatever happened to him in prison, is was not pleasant
at all and his his staff were screaming about what was
happening to him in prison and he himself when he came
out said really angry things about what he went through.
But since he refused to get real specific, one can reasonable guess that it was things that would embarass him
to talk about so I say he was fucked by his roomies.
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Date: Sat, May 29, 1999 at 13:10:48 (EDT)
From: Blue Jay
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: The orange people
Message:
THE ORANGE PEOPLE!!!

Thank heavens Marolyn got her hands on the boy-toy, (premature gooey-rue) years ago. We might have been the tie-dyed people;-)

B
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Date: Sat, May 29, 1999 at 15:05:28 (EDT)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: Blue Jay
Subject: The orange people
Message:
Sage insight Blue Jay! And Spartakus, just keep on toying with the cat. You're doing a great job. Has he signed off for today? Maybe your mojo really got to him and he went to go meditate. More mojo please.
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Date: Sat, May 29, 1999 at 12:04:48 (EDT)
From: spartakus
Email: weewee problems?
To: Catweasel
Subject: rajnish/YOU MEAN RAJNEESH!!!!!
Message:
you should use a better lubricant when you play with your self ha.ha.ha.ha.
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