Ex-Premie.Org |
Forum III Archive # 51 | |
From: Jun 5, 1999 |
To: Jun 14, 1999 |
Page: 2 Of: 5 |
Sandra -:- Way's 5 questions -:- Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 01:56:36 (EDT) __Curly -:- Way's 5 questions -:- Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 02:02:38 (EDT) ____Way -:- Way's 5 questions -:- Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 11:21:53 (EDT) ______Way -:- Way's 5 questions -:- Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 12:15:35 (EDT) __Katie -:- to Sandra -:- Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 12:50:11 (EDT) __JW -:- Way's 5 questions -:- Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 13:05:47 (EDT) __Mike -:- Can I point something out? -:- Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 19:38:28 (EDT) ____Jethro -:- To Mike -:- Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 23:41:46 (EDT) ____Sandra -:- Can I point something out? -:- Thurs, Jun 10, 1999 at 16:15:16 (EDT) ______Mike -:- Can I point something out? -:- Thurs, Jun 10, 1999 at 16:47:36 (EDT) Bruce -:- Nasty!! -:- Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 00:36:15 (EDT) __Jim -:- True!! -:- Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 11:05:54 (EDT) ____Jim -:- Correction -:- Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 11:08:21 (EDT) ______Rob -:- Definitions -:- Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 13:45:21 (EDT) __Gail -:- Nasty as ya wanna be -:- Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 17:15:12 (EDT) ____Nil -:- Nasty as ya wanna be -:- Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 18:24:56 (EDT) ______Gail -:- BRIAN GAUDET IN DRAG? NOT -:- Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 18:35:11 (EDT) ________Nil -:- BRIAN GAUDET IN DRAG? NOT -:- Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 19:06:17 (EDT) ________X-Dresser -:- BRIAN GAUDET IN DRAG? NOT -:- Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 19:11:38 (EDT) __________Gail -:- BRIAN GAUDET IN DRAG? NOT -:- Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 19:17:13 (EDT) ____________Nil -:- BRIAN GAUDET IN DRAG? NOT -:- Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 20:39:37 (EDT) ______________Gail -:- BRIAN GAUDET IN DRAG? NOT -:- Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 21:05:03 (EDT) ____Jim -:- Hey, I love Gaudet -:- Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 20:54:47 (EDT) ______Nil -:- Hey, I love Gaudet -:- Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 21:04:04 (EDT) ________Jim -:- Hey, I love Gaudet -:- Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 21:13:27 (EDT) __________Nil -:- Hey, I love Gaudet -:- Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 21:18:59 (EDT) ____________Jim -:- So were the Heaven's Gaters -:- Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 21:29:06 (EDT) ______________Jim -:- Okay, you be the judge -:- Thurs, Jun 10, 1999 at 09:27:37 (EDT) ________________Liz -:- Take Responsibility! -:- Thurs, Jun 10, 1999 at 10:59:27 (EDT) ________________Copta' Buzz -:- Okay, you be the judge -:- Thurs, Jun 10, 1999 at 11:42:44 (EDT) __________________Mary M -:- Okay, you be the judge -:- Thurs, Jun 10, 1999 at 12:54:56 (EDT) ____________________Copta' Buzz -:- Okay, you be the judge -:- Thurs, Jun 10, 1999 at 13:13:30 (EDT) ______________________Mary M -:- Okay, you be the judge -:- Thurs, Jun 10, 1999 at 18:51:06 (EDT) ______________Nil -:- A ridiculous comparison -:- Thurs, Jun 10, 1999 at 21:02:38 (EDT) ________________Mike -:- But it's ok to.... -:- Fri, Jun 11, 1999 at 11:52:02 (EDT) Liz -:- Hyperbole -:- Tues, Jun 08, 1999 at 23:30:34 (EDT) __Jim -:- Hyperbole -:- Thurs, Jun 10, 1999 at 09:34:08 (EDT) Jim -:- How much for a satellite feed? -:- Tues, Jun 08, 1999 at 21:00:04 (EDT) __Memphis Belle -:- He needs to start giving -:- Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 00:52:53 (EDT) ____Helen -:- He needs to start giving -:- Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 12:27:25 (EDT) ____Nil -:- You need to open your eyes -:- Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 20:02:03 (EDT) ______A disgusted observer -:- Nil:YOU need to open your eyes -:- Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 23:53:41 (EDT) ________Nil -:- Your slip is showing bud... -:- Thurs, Jun 10, 1999 at 21:07:08 (EDT) __________A disgusted observer -:- What's wrong with my slip -:- Fri, Jun 11, 1999 at 02:54:05 (EDT) ____________Nil -:- What's wrong with my slip -:- Fri, Jun 11, 1999 at 13:55:14 (EDT) ______________A disgusted observer -:- What's wrong with my slip -:- Fri, Jun 11, 1999 at 16:08:29 (EDT) ________________777 -:- What's wrong with my slip -:- Sat, Jun 12, 1999 at 05:23:52 (EDT) __Jean-Michel -:- Not much -:- Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 03:33:22 (EDT) ____Mary M -:- Not much -:- Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 08:05:24 (EDT) ______Jean-Michel -:- Rawat just earned $ 250,000 -:- Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 09:47:28 (EDT) ______JB -:- Not much -:- Thurs, Jun 10, 1999 at 18:31:44 (EDT) ________Mary M -:- Not much (Long) -:- Thurs, Jun 10, 1999 at 20:04:44 (EDT) __________Memphis Belle -:- M kids have REALLY nice cars -:- Thurs, Jun 10, 1999 at 22:31:18 (EDT) ____________Mary M -:- M kids have REALLY nice cars -:- Thurs, Jun 10, 1999 at 22:48:10 (EDT) ______________Prancing too! -:- M kids have REALLY nice cars -:- Fri, Jun 11, 1999 at 01:50:18 (EDT) __________Mary M -:- JB - No reply at all? -:- Sat, Jun 12, 1999 at 10:36:13 (EDT) AJW -:- SHP IS INNOCENT OK -:- Tues, Jun 08, 1999 at 17:19:31 (EDT) __Jim -:- Give me a break -:- Tues, Jun 08, 1999 at 19:13:03 (EDT) ____gregg -:- bye shp! -:- Tues, Jun 08, 1999 at 20:10:46 (EDT) __Katie -:- To AJW & all -:- Tues, Jun 08, 1999 at 20:10:43 (EDT) ____Gregg -:- To AJW & all -:- Tues, Jun 08, 1999 at 20:12:55 (EDT) ______Jim -:- I know! I know! -:- Tues, Jun 08, 1999 at 20:17:24 (EDT) ________Katie -:- IMHO and OT -:- Tues, Jun 08, 1999 at 20:20:50 (EDT) __________Don -:- Others -:- Tues, Jun 08, 1999 at 20:39:32 (EDT) ____________gregg -:- cybercode -:- Tues, Jun 08, 1999 at 21:34:04 (EDT) __Jim -:- How about this? -:- Tues, Jun 08, 1999 at 20:24:47 (EDT) ____Marianne -:- Did M respond to Shp? -:- Tues, Jun 08, 1999 at 21:23:08 (EDT) __Peace and Freedom Party -:- Amber waves of Grain -:- Tues, Jun 08, 1999 at 21:06:50 (EDT) __Diz -:- SHP IS INNOCENT OK -:- Tues, Jun 08, 1999 at 21:14:51 (EDT) ____Liz -:- SHP IS INNOCENT OK -:- Tues, Jun 08, 1999 at 21:20:39 (EDT) ______Gail -:- Maybe SHP could come back -:- Tues, Jun 08, 1999 at 23:31:38 (EDT) ____AJW -:- SHP Smells Freedom -:- Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 05:30:57 (EDT) __barney -:- SHP was a pest -:- Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 00:09:09 (EDT) ____Mickey the Pharisee -:- SHP was a pest -:- Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 01:30:21 (EDT) ______Robyn -:- SHP was a pest -:- Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 02:42:40 (EDT) ________barney -:- I sought guidance from... -:- Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 04:02:32 (EDT) __________g's mom -:- Bhole Shri Barney Ki Jai! (nt) -:- Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 11:25:00 (EDT) ______KB -:- Ditto-(nt) -:- Thurs, Jun 10, 1999 at 03:16:03 (EDT) ____Curly -:- SHP was a pest -:- Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 01:49:02 (EDT) ______barney -:- No, didn't suspect that, why? -:- Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 03:19:06 (EDT) ________Curly -:- No, didn't suspect that, why? -:- Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 09:38:39 (EDT) __________barney -:- No test -:- Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 12:27:34 (EDT) ____AJW -:- SHP was a pest -:- Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 05:38:20 (EDT) ____777 -:- pests -:- Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 07:48:40 (EDT) ______Helen -:- to Barney the angst -:- Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 10:30:30 (EDT) ________Helen -:- to Barney the angst -:- Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 11:46:21 (EDT) ________Marianne -:- Austin Powers (OT) -:- Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 15:11:36 (EDT) __________Helen -:- Austin Powers (OT) -:- Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 15:20:53 (EDT) ____________Marianne -:- Monticello (OT) -:- Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 15:29:37 (EDT) ______________Helen -:- Monticello (OT) -:- Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 17:39:03 (EDT) __________Robyn -:- Mike Myers(OT) -:- Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 19:05:07 (EDT) ____________Marianne -:- Mike Myers(OT) -:- Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 19:45:06 (EDT) ______________Robyn -:- Mike Myers(OT) -:- Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 19:55:05 (EDT) ________Robyn -:- The Spy Who Shagged Me -:- Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 19:01:25 (EDT) __________Helen -:- The Spy Who Shagged Me -:- Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 21:20:15 (EDT) ________Austin -:- I'm psyched too, baby -:- Thurs, Jun 10, 1999 at 08:22:54 (EDT) __________Helen -:- Austin baby! -:- Thurs, Jun 10, 1999 at 13:13:15 (EDT) ____________Marianne -:- Austin baby! -:- Thurs, Jun 10, 1999 at 13:21:30 (EDT) ______________Helen -:- Austin baby! -:- Thurs, Jun 10, 1999 at 14:53:13 (EDT) ________________Austin -:- Austin baby! -:- Fri, Jun 11, 1999 at 18:22:29 (EDT) __________________Helen -:- Austin --I adore you -:- Fri, Jun 11, 1999 at 23:05:23 (EDT) __barney -:- last email from shp -:- Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 13:43:54 (EDT) ____Katie -:- last email from shp -:- Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 14:53:27 (EDT) ______Marianne -:- last email from shp -:- Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 15:23:03 (EDT) ________gerry -:- sandbox for sandy -:- Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 16:48:05 (EDT) __________KB -:- sandbox for sandy -:- Fri, Jun 11, 1999 at 23:11:41 (EDT) ________Mike -:- shp is a gra-jee-at -:- Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 16:50:41 (EDT) __________barney -:- yes, but there is one thing... -:- Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 17:18:00 (EDT) ____________Gail -:- Gun Rights--Is this true? -:- Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 17:25:55 (EDT) ______________barney -:- For you, Gail... -:- Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 17:30:44 (EDT) ______________AJW -:- Jolly Old England -:- Thurs, Jun 10, 1999 at 05:58:53 (EDT) ________________Gail -:- Jolly Old England -:- Thurs, Jun 10, 1999 at 07:00:41 (EDT) ________________Mike -:- Ok, that's IT!!!!!! -:- Thurs, Jun 10, 1999 at 12:47:53 (EDT) __________________AJW -:- Ok, that's IT!!!!!! -:- Fri, Jun 11, 1999 at 04:02:38 (EDT) ______________Mike -:- Thank You Gail! -:- Thurs, Jun 10, 1999 at 12:39:57 (EDT) ________________JW -:- What? -:- Thurs, Jun 10, 1999 at 16:14:02 (EDT) __________________Mike -:- Yup -:- Thurs, Jun 10, 1999 at 17:08:12 (EDT) ____________________JW -:- Nope -:- Fri, Jun 11, 1999 at 13:01:14 (EDT) ______________________Mike -:- Whoa!!! -:- Fri, Jun 11, 1999 at 13:35:24 (EDT) __________________Gail -:- To JW and Mike: -:- Thurs, Jun 10, 1999 at 17:13:15 (EDT) ____________________Mike -:- To Gail: -:- Thurs, Jun 10, 1999 at 17:55:35 (EDT) ____________________JW -:- Mike and Pauline -:- Fri, Jun 11, 1999 at 13:19:22 (EDT) ______________________Mike -:- JW and Pauline -:- Fri, Jun 11, 1999 at 13:42:29 (EDT) ________Sgt. Barney -:- I'd like to, but... -:- Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 17:13:04 (EDT) ______Jim -:- Katie, here's my decision -:- Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 16:18:01 (EDT) ________Marianne -:- Webmaster Heller (hahaha) -:- Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 17:01:16 (EDT) ________Katie -:- Gee thanks, Jim! -:- Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 17:37:06 (EDT) ____Brian -:- last email from shp -:- Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 20:16:16 (EDT) ______KB -:- last email from shp -:- Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 21:05:32 (EDT) ________Robyn -:- Yeah what KB said! :) (nt) -:- Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 22:34:22 (EDT) Anon -:- Let me be Devils Advocate -:- Tues, Jun 08, 1999 at 16:35:16 (EDT) __Sandra -:- Let me be Devils Advocate -:- Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 03:00:35 (EDT) ____Anon -:- thanks -:- Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 05:15:58 (EDT) ______Powerman -:- People Like Sandra -:- Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 10:56:46 (EDT) ________Gerry -:- People Like Sandra -:- Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 16:59:46 (EDT) __________Powerman -:- Happy to oblige, Gerry (nt) -:- Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 17:22:57 (EDT) ________Selene -:- People Like Sandra -:- Fri, Jun 11, 1999 at 01:27:54 (EDT) __________Sandra -:- People Like Sandra -:- Fri, Jun 11, 1999 at 03:17:55 (EDT) ____________Helen -:- People Like Sandra -:- Fri, Jun 11, 1999 at 10:07:55 (EDT) ____________*MISTRESS* Selene -:- People Like Sandra -:- Fri, Jun 11, 1999 at 11:35:43 (EDT) ____________Katie -:- People Like Sandra -:- Fri, Jun 11, 1999 at 14:41:55 (EDT) ______________Powerman -:- People Like Sandra -:- Fri, Jun 11, 1999 at 14:58:41 (EDT) ________________Katie -:- People Like Sandra -:- Fri, Jun 11, 1999 at 15:10:18 (EDT) __________________Powerman -:- People Like Sandra -:- Fri, Jun 11, 1999 at 15:24:48 (EDT) ____________________Katie -:- People Like Sandra -:- Fri, Jun 11, 1999 at 17:29:31 (EDT) ____Jim -:- You can't be serious -:- Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 11:16:46 (EDT) ____Gail -:- Let me be Devils Advocate -:- Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 15:12:25 (EDT) ____Jerry -:- Let me be Devils Advocate -:- Thurs, Jun 10, 1999 at 09:03:04 (EDT) ______Helen -:- Whispers and Lies -:- Thurs, Jun 10, 1999 at 15:25:00 (EDT) barney -:- Curly, some questions -:- Tues, Jun 08, 1999 at 16:16:19 (EDT) __Curly -:- Ok ok I'll answer in due cours -:- Tues, Jun 08, 1999 at 16:24:18 (EDT) __Curly -:- Barney, some answers -:- Tues, Jun 08, 1999 at 21:24:27 (EDT) ____Memphis Belle -:- I too am relatively new -:- Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 01:38:25 (EDT) ______cp -:- thanks -:- Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 04:24:25 (EDT) ____Helen -:- Barney, some answers -:- Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 10:38:06 (EDT) ____Jim -:- Thanks Curly -:- Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 11:26:21 (EDT) ______Marianne -:- Thanks Curly -:- Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 11:42:52 (EDT) ________Curly -:- My pleasure -:- Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 13:30:20 (EDT) ____gerry -:- Rog, **best of ?** nt -:- Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 19:33:24 (EDT) ______Roger E. Drek -:- soon to be ***best*** -:- Thurs, Jun 10, 1999 at 02:12:58 (EDT) |
Date: Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 01:56:36 (EDT)
From: Sandra Email: None To: Way Subject: Way's 5 questions Message: Hello there Way, I suppose I shouldn't be surprised by the sheer ugliness of most of the responses I read here, especially since I did my best to genuinely answer questions posed to me, but apparently that is a good bit of what goes on here and the 'nice ones,' including Katie, Robyn, AJW, Gail, Liz and JHB didn't see fit to comment on the embarrassing exploits of some of the other 'exes.' Anon seemingly folded like a hot towel the minute Jim came in to CORRECT his thinking and Mark skulked off thinking I was some guy. I saw no purpose in responding to the 2-bit abyss some others presented but you asked 5 valid questions and I'll try to answer them. Warning: For those whose only acceptable answer is the one that completely agrees with the way you think right now, I'm still answering the way I feel. Read no further if this is a threat to your world view. If no other answer is digestable by you, pause for a second before you use your little, impotent insulting words. '(1) aren't you tired of chasing a feeling that depends on Rawat's whereabouts to trigger it?' No. And it doesn't depend on his whereabouts. I've felt it very strongly on a subway in Manhattan, by Walden Pond in Massachusetts, in conducive and non-conducive surroundings, around Maharaji and 8,000 miles away. By myself and surrounded by 60,000 people. 1973 and 1999. '(2) wouldn't it be more authentic and truth-seeking to search for the source within yourself?' I do. And it is most definitely there. '(3) do you really think that what happens in the Miami Beach Convention Center is any different that the high experienced at Promise Keepers or Billy Graham Crusades? ' Yes, very much so. You want a more PC answer?... I'd rather tell you what I really feel. I've watched Billy Graham on TV on and off for many years and never felt a damn thing from him. '(4) do you really know what you're doing enough to recommend it as helpful to other people?' Good question. I'm very hesitant to recommend ANYTHING to other people as I have great respect for individual development. But if someone wants to know, I'm happy to tell them what I've seen for them to take or leave as they wish. '(5) is Rawat really the source or doesn't that feeling come'whenever two or more are gathered in my name?'' Another good question. He taught me how to find the source and his words and presence do have the effect of heightening my awareness of it. To refer back to your musings about the 'trigger effect'... I experience it almost like a Geiger counter that starts quickening and responding around radioactivity. You may have concluded he has nothing to do with it...to me he does but the thing that gets inspired, furthered, ignited...whatever term you like, is and always was in you to start with. He just keeps pointing at it. That's how it feels to me. I'm answering just how I feel. I'm neither trying to placate nor antagonize anyone. If you can't handle it, take a look at yourself. Best to you Way, Sandra P.S. Barney, thanks for being a mensch Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 02:02:38 (EDT)
From: Curly Email: None To: Sandra Subject: Way's 5 questions Message: I am not a premie so I don't really understand what you mean by that feeling. Please be so kind to explain. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 11:21:53 (EDT)
From: Way Email: None To: Curly Subject: Way's 5 questions Message: Curly, in answer to your question about what is meant here by 'that feeling': Maharaji now often uses that term whereas in former days, he would speak of it as 'holy name,' which has been called many things in many traditions: the word, logo, the holy spirit, the holy ghost, rapture, etc. It means a feeling in your chest of unconditional love that many people feel in the context of focusing toward the spiritual. That feeling of love can be accompanied by a state of mind called samadhi, nirvana, etc. You already know these concepts, don't you, Curly? And you have felt 'that feeling' on occasion, haven't you, at least to some extent? Well, Mr. Rawat claims to be the Master bestower of that feeling and many of his followers such as Sandra above give him that credit. Others of his followers eventually argue that Mr. Rawat has no monopoloy on the truth, that his claim of being the unique living Master is quite false, and he is actually a thief when he tries to take responsibility for any human being's experience of that love. When these ex-followers adopt such an attitude, the feeling in question does not disappear, but remains where it has always been, as accessible as it ever was, having no unique connection of any sort to Mr. Rawat. It is each person's birthright and it should always be a matter of an individual person and his or her own unique connection to God, Higher Self, or whatever the term, because that is the truth of the matter. For Mr. Rawat to enrich himself while fostering the fake co-dependent relationship of supposed devotion is a crime against each person's integrity, against his own integrity, and against 'that feeling.' Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 12:15:35 (EDT)
From: Way Email: None To: Sandra Subject: Way's 5 questions Message: Sandra, thanks for responding directly to my five questions. We need to pursue this a little further, though, since we are at this point still dancing around the issues and haven't yet arrived at the core question. All my five questions were aimed at the same essential idea - is Maharaji the true Master and should he be followed with devotion in order to attain fulfillment? Original question 1 - does the feeling depend somehow on Rawat? You answer that you have felt that feeling in the subway in Manhattan, among many other locals independent of Rawat. Interesting response for me, because I was just recently exploring Manhattan for six days (in May) and whenever the crush of people and cars became a little too much for me I would duck into a church (there is always one nearby). Whether it was a large gorgeous cathedral like St. Patrick's or St. Bartholomew's or a little chappel, I always felt bathed in Holy Name whenever I made these brief respites. Rawat has routinely bad-mouthed both New York City, and temples and churches in general, and I am sure he would be relunctant to accept the power to enrich and fulfill that these places have. (In fact, from following Rawat for many years I am aware that he badmouths pretty much everything except himself). Question 2 wanted desperately to point out the inconsistency in Maharaji's teaching that the source is within, but that he is the source. In your answer, you ignored the issue completely. But it is raised again by question 5 in which you respond more to the point that 'He taught me how to find the source and his words and his presence do have the effect of heightening my awareness of it.' This approaches my point, which is about depending on Maharaji's presence to trigger the effect for you. What happens when he dies? Do you get your fix at Wadi's lotus feet? Please don't get lost in the semantics here or the question of how the mastership transfers, but please direct your response to the underlying question about you as a single unique human being feeding off two sources, one within you and one definitely outside you. How can you stand to love and depend on somebody who you see on rare occasions as one-half inch tall on a large stage and when he goes home, you are locked out by iron gates??? Don't you yearn for a God that really truely belongs to you??? A master, if you must, about whom questions could never arise as to how much alcohol he might or might not drink, etc. etc. etc. etc. Question 3 and 4 attempted to force the issue that Maharaji is in no way unique or superior to other paths and does not deserve recommendations over any other path. You insist in your answer that he is infact superior to Billy Graham. Well, you avoid my point by focusing on my bad example. Please allow me to give another example, closer to home. Go to http://rickross/com/reference/ananda1.html This newspaper article focuses on a gathering much like satsang of followers of Kriya Yoga, (Yukteshwar, Yogananda, Kriyananda), in which the journalist visitor feels the atmosphere as 'lively, punctuated at turns with humor, solemnity, and palpable rapture.' Some people do get off on Billy Graham, even if you and I don't, and the point here again is against Rawat's claims that he is today's living Master worthy of our devotion. No, no, no. Our devotion should go absolutely nowhere but to the one and only place where it can truly belong, and that is to the truth of all times and all places and all hearts. Rawat's little world with all its glaring imperfections will come and go, (the sooner the better), and we will all be left with our longing to unite with the one thing that is possible to unite with. Best wishes, Sandra, and I look forward to any further thoughts and responses you might have in the next wee hours. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 12:50:11 (EDT)
From: Katie Email: mishkat@gateway.net To: Sandra Subject: to Sandra Message: Hi Sandra - Just one comment on something that you said in your above post: I suppose I shouldn't be surprised by the sheer ugliness of most of the responses I read here, especially since I did my best to genuinely answer questions posed to me, but apparently that is a good bit of what goes on here and the 'nice ones,' including Katie, Robyn, AJW, Gail, Liz and JHB didn't see fit to comment on the embarrassing exploits of some of the other 'exes.' I don't usually answer posts by premies unless they attack the forum and/or its participants in general, which you have not done, or unless they appear to be genuinely seeking answers about WHY people here are ex-premies, which you don't seem to be doing. I don't say this as an insult - from what I can tell from your posts, you are here to present your position and answer questions about it. (Also, I'm not sure about all the other people that you mentioned above, but I do know that Robyn doesn't usually read posts by premies.) I see the forum as being primarily a support group for ex-premies, and that's where I try to focus my energy and limited posting time. But, since you mentioned my name, I did go back and read your posts both in the inactive and active index. (I used to read all the posts as part of my 'assistant webmaster' job, but since Barney has taken over as webmaster, I don't have to do that anymore.) It seems to me that you've been reasonably civil while retaining your right to assertiveness. I am sorry that you've gotten so many crude answers, but if you've been reading the forum and/or using the net for a while, I assume that you know that that happens on this forum in particular AND on the net in general. And I'm sure I don't need to tell you that women (or anyone using a woman's name) are often subjected to insults based on their sex, which I HATE. I think your position of NOT answering posts that don't appear to be sincere is a good one. As regards the forum being a more civil place - well, I wish it could be, too, but that's something that's impossible to legislate. When premies come on here and post in support of Maharaji, they're seen as Maharaji's representatives, and a lot of people here are VERY angry at Maharaji, so the premies get the fall-out from that. Take care, Katie Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 13:05:47 (EDT)
From: JW Email: None To: Sandra Subject: Way's 5 questions Message: Sandra, to begin with, you might consider your own 'ugliness' before making comments about others. I personally found your diatribe down below both nasty and mean. I think it's not helpful to discount the subjective personal experiences of people, whether they be premies or ex-premies. Actually, I believe the purpose of this website it to give the other side of the story, not to convince you or anyone about anything. Funny though, why is it that the premie sites don't allow for candid give and take communication and this site does? Why is free speech and discussion such an anathema to Maharaji's world? I would just comment that when I 'believed' in Guru Maharaj Ji as the source of my experience, as the source of 'grace' and all the rest, I SOMETIMES had an 'experience' that was pleasant. When I stopped believing in him it disappeared, especially at programs. When I stopped having 'faith' in him he just appeared as a very odd little man who was also a bizarre megalomaniac. Regarding the experience of 'holy name' that didn't go away, and, in fact, I found it much most pleasurable after I got rid of Maharaji, whom I never found attractive and more of a distraction than an inspiration or a help. Moreover, I couldn't any longer live with the dissonance of seeing Maharaji's lack of ethics, lack of caring for other people, and his tremendous greed, and at the same time revere him. All I can say is that my life improved immensely when I stopped following Maharaji. My only regret is the years I spent dedicating my life to him. It damaged me, my relationships, my family, etc., and it definitely wasn't worth it. My only beef with Maharaji now is that he takes no responsiblity whatsoever for claiming to be god incarnate and the negative effects that had on a bunch of counter-culture kids. His utter lack of integrity and morals in that area, for me, rules him out as someone who has anything of value to teach or inspire people. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 19:38:28 (EDT)
From: Mike Email: None To: Sandra Subject: Can I point something out? Message: Sandra: In part of your post, you say that 'it' comes from within then later you say, 'I've watched Billy Graham on TV on and off for many years and never felt a damn thing FROM HIM.' (emphasis mine). So does the feeling you expect to 'feel' come from inside or outside from someone else? It seems like you are expecting to 'receive' a feeling from an external source when you say, '....never felt a damn thing FROM him.' See what I mean? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 23:41:46 (EDT)
From: Jethro Email: None To: Mike Subject: To Mike Message: Hi Mike, Good point. Premies won't admit that they believe in m's magic touch. They repeat all the stuff about everything coming fom 'within' but really believe otherwise. Baiscally prempal has created a group of liars. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 10, 1999 at 16:15:16 (EDT)
From: Sandra Email: None To: Mike Subject: Can I point something out? Message: Hi Mike, Yes, I see exactly what you mean. If I were to put it succintly, I'd say 'I've never felt a damn thing while I was watching Billy Graham.' The feeling is in me, not Billy Graham (or Maharaji) though something about each of those gentlemen has quite a different effect on me, the one who's doing the feeling. Is that a little more accurate? Grammatically yours, Sandra Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 10, 1999 at 16:47:36 (EDT)
From: Mike Email: None To: Sandra Subject: Can I point something out? Message: Sandra: Actually, I believe your 'slip' wasn't a grammatical error, but an error in thinking. I really do believe that most premies think those 'experience' somehow originate from M. Some magical thread between devotee and master. What you said (even in a slip of the tongue) leads me to believe that this is still true. (IMHO) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 00:36:15 (EDT)
From: Bruce Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Nasty!! Message: Jim, I tune into ex-premie.org from time to time and was genuinely soured when you called Brian Gaudet a weenie. Apparently you have some sort of monopoly on how people are supposed to think. Well in my humble opinion Brian is a really nice person, a sweet guy. It was at this point that I suddenly realized that, sure you are quick witted and have obviously benefitted from your legal training, but when push comes to shove you are basically a mean spirited asshole. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 11:05:54 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Bruce Subject: True!! Message: Come on Bruce, Have you read any of Brian's sugar-plums-and-fairy posts on ELK? Why, they're almost as sickly sweet as Glen Whittaker's! Really. It strikes me that there is balanced premie personality. They're either pie-faced simpletons, sickly-sweet Teletubbies or snarling lap dogs like you. Oh, yes, there's also the quiet, world-weary zombie look. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 11:08:21 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Jim Subject: Correction Message: Should have read: ...there is NO balanced premie personality... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 13:45:21 (EDT)
From: Rob Email: None To: Jim Subject: Definitions Message: My definition of a balanced premie: Someone with a chip on each shoulder! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 17:15:12 (EDT)
From: Gail Email: None To: Bruce Subject: Nasty as ya wanna be Message: Brian Gaudet is ok. As I already mentioned, he was always nice to me. In Amaroo 92, he ended up driving us to Brisbane, and we had a great laugh driving on the wrong side of the road. Maybe Jim said that because he lived with him. Maybe he's a nice person for a few hours at a time but a real drag to live with. You and I never lived with Brian. I haven't noticed Jim talking about people he doesn't know, have you (except for MJ, of course). BTW, were you the Bruce who posted here last summer when I first arrived? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 18:24:56 (EDT)
From: Nil Email: None To: Gail Subject: Nasty as ya wanna be Message: Maybe Jim said that because he lived with him. Maybe he's a nice person for a few hours at a time but a real drag to live with. Yeah, but luckily we now get to choose the people we live with. How about you Gail... what would sombody who lived with you have to say about you? The perfect room-mate... always perky and never in drag? And then there's Jim. Just what would HIS ex-roomies have to say about him? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 18:35:11 (EDT)
From: Gail Email: None To: Nil Subject: BRIAN GAUDET IN DRAG? NOT Message: Brian Gaudet is a heterosexual as far as I know! A real drag (means not great to associate with or a bad time) is different from a drag queen (boys dressing up in Mommy's clothes). Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 19:06:17 (EDT)
From: Nil Email: None To: Gail Subject: BRIAN GAUDET IN DRAG? NOT Message: A real drag (means not great to associate with or a bad time) is different from a drag queen (boys dressing up in Mommy's clothes). Oh really. Gosh Gail, ya learn somethin' new evrday! What about Jim, how does he look in drag? ;-) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 19:11:38 (EDT)
From: X-Dresser Email: None To: Gail Subject: BRIAN GAUDET IN DRAG? NOT Message: Allow me to straighten your skirt on this, honey... You know what a drag is; a drag queen is a gay guy who dresses up like a woman: in drag means (usually) a guy dressed up in ladies clothes not necessarily gay. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 19:17:13 (EDT)
From: Gail Email: None To: X-Dresser Subject: BRIAN GAUDET IN DRAG? NOT Message: Thanks for the info! As for you, Nil, how do you look in drag. You seem a little homophobic to me! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 20:39:37 (EDT)
From: Nil Email: None To: Gail Subject: BRIAN GAUDET IN DRAG? NOT Message: As for you, Nil, how do you look in drag. You seem a little homophobic to me! Not afraid of homos at all Gail. Now, if you're struggling to find something to insult me with, I'll overlook it, this time. As for how I look in drag... probably real ugly. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 21:05:03 (EDT)
From: Gail Email: None To: Nil Subject: BRIAN GAUDET IN DRAG? NOT Message: Actually, you brought it up. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 20:54:47 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Gail Subject: Hey, I love Gaudet Message: But he's still a weenie. I mean, Chris Dickey's a weenie too, isn't he? Is there any question about these guys? And Glen Whittaker? I never knew him but reading his posts... he's like a combination new age funeral parlour guy and a beautician. They're ALL weenies, aren't they? Sorry, am I missing something? You know, I'm not trying to offend anyone or anything. I thought it was a given, premies become weenies for Maharaji. Maharaji's the ultimate weenie factory. You know, 'some men are born weenies, some men are made weenies and some men become weenies for God' Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 21:04:04 (EDT)
From: Nil Email: None To: Jim Subject: Hey, I love Gaudet Message: ...but do you love him because he looks good in drag, or for what's inside? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 21:13:27 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Nil Subject: Hey, I love Gaudet Message: Nil, I love him because he's a very pathetic victim of a cult. His whole life's been wasted and, yes, that makes me feel for the guy. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 21:18:59 (EDT)
From: Nil Email: None To: Jim Subject: Hey, I love Gaudet Message: Bet he's real happy though Jim. God how I pity happy people!!!! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 21:29:06 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Nil Subject: So were the Heaven's Gaters Message: Happiness can just be a function of conditioning. Some of the most enslaved minds in history have been 'happy'. Do you agree? Yes or no? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 10, 1999 at 09:27:37 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Jim Subject: Okay, you be the judge Message: Below, are some of Brian's field reports from Argentina. Now you tell me, is this guy NOT the biggest weenie imaginable? He has absolutely no discrimination, does he? He gets to 'plug in' as a cashier, of all things, at Maharaji's sleazy, kitschy trinket bazaar and he's in heaven. Maharaji says 'simplicity' and Brian tries to act it out. The next day Maharaji says 'synchronization' and 'responsiblity' and Brian acts as if he's been given the ten commandments. The next day Maharaji displays 'such strength' and Brian coos like an idiot. No, I'm sorry, Maharaji you've ruined this guy. You've made a mockery of him. Brian Gaudet, Edmonton, Canada I just got back to my hotel from the beautiful program. What gift when Maharaji invited us all to come to a surpise participation meeting tomorrow at 11:00. To me it was like finding a treasure box of gold. He told us a story about a farmer telling his sons to plough the soil. After he died his sons were too caught up in dreams of the city and did not till the soil and never found the treasure. I did find the opportunity to do service at Visions. I asked and was told to plug myself in where I could. Tomorrow I will be a cashier at one of the tables. The theme of the program seemed to be 'simplicity'. Maharaji spoke of the beauty of being simple. I felt this when I asked to help out and was given a very simple, uncomplicated response to plug myself in. I'll send another update if I can before I leave Argentina. ****** Today we had a beautiful participation meeting with Maharaji. He spoke of synchronization and said we should take responsibility for our lives. ****** Once again Maharaji weaved his magic. Three wonderful programs with the final one being an expression of strength. Maharaji told us he could not do it for us, but advised us to walk with conviction and be strong in Knowledge. He gave examples of people who pray to God so they could do well in an exam when they had not studied, or to make my business be successful when they put their shop in the wrong place and were not careful starting the business. He was full of passion as he spoke. I feel privileged to have once again been a witness to his magical show. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 10, 1999 at 10:59:27 (EDT)
From: Liz Email: None To: Jim Subject: Take Responsibility! Message: At last - M tells premies to take responsibility for their lives. Also reminds premies yet again that God helps those that help themselves. Those two profound revelations must be worth travelling to Argentina for! Definately woven magic - not. I was a cashier a couple of times. What fools. Love, Liz Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 10, 1999 at 11:42:44 (EDT)
From: Copta' Buzz Email: None To: Jim Subject: Okay, you be the judge Message: Once again Maharaji weaved his magic. Three wonderful programs with the final one being an expression of strength. Maharaji told us he could not do it for us, but advised us to walk with conviction and be strong in Knowledge. He gave examples of people who pray to God so they could do well in an exam when they had not studied, or to make my business be successful when they put their shop in the wrong place and were not careful starting the business. This fellow actually understands at an unconscious level that he's being brainwashed, ''weaves magic.'' Notice he says ''programs'' because this is exactly what is happening. Then Maharaji abdicates any responsibility for your ''experience'' and implies if it's not working for you, then you are somehow being a fuck up, and it's your fault because you didn't study hard enough or you failed to do ''due diligence'' in your business. Your fault, baby, not his. But hey, how'd ya like the show this time? Catch a buzz ? Music OK? Well, be sure to stop by at the trinket stands. BTW, here's my bank account number for those who would like to experience the bliss of direct-deposit graditude. (Sure helps you stay inspired to practise if your feel graditude and keep in touch, folks) Watch for the Videos sometime in August. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 10, 1999 at 12:54:56 (EDT)
From: Mary M Email: None To: Copta' Buzz Subject: Okay, you be the judge Message: Copta, Hilarious phrase: direct-deposit graditude Mary Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 10, 1999 at 13:13:30 (EDT)
From: Copta' Buzz Email: None To: Mary M Subject: Okay, you be the judge Message: Hilarious phrase: direct-deposit graditude Well, it's trademarked, copyright and, of course, patent pending. And anyone who reads this post gets a cookie sent to their computer. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 10, 1999 at 18:51:06 (EDT)
From: Mary M Email: None To: Copta' Buzz Subject: Okay, you be the judge Message: Hey Copta, Do you also get to keep the account transaction acronym DDG under copyright laws? Hilarious phrase: direct-deposit graditude Well, it's trademarked, copyright and, of course, patent pending. And anyone who reads this post gets a cookie sent to their computer. The cookie's great! Mmmmmmmary Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 10, 1999 at 21:02:38 (EDT)
From: Nil Email: None To: Jim Subject: A ridiculous comparison Message: Some of the most enslaved minds in history have been 'happy'. Do you agree? Yes or no? No. And you're in no position to judge Brian Gaudet's happiness. Your heaven's gate comparison is akin to saying because the mob has lawyers working for them, all lawyers are crooked... Stupid, one-dimensional hypothysising. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jun 11, 1999 at 11:52:02 (EDT)
From: Mike Email: None To: Nil Subject: But it's ok to.... Message: draw a comparison between neighbors 'beating kids' to gail's desire to go to a program????? Say what????? Nil, you live by the sword you wield. You are definitely not innocent when it comes to really bad comparisons and analogies. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Jun 08, 1999 at 23:30:34 (EDT)
From: Liz Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Hyperbole Message: Have you seen Glen's reflections in Argentina on Participation Meeting... 'This may be hyperbole but'.... (Sorry I can't do cut & paste so you are just going to have to read it over at ELK.) Please let me know what you think he means by hyperbole in this article, Thanks, Liz Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 10, 1999 at 09:34:08 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Liz Subject: Hyperbole Message: Liz, Don't you know what 'hyperbole' means? It means 'exaggeration' essentially. Usually over-the-top description meant to impress. Whittaker's obviously aware that he's getting a little carried away. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Jun 08, 1999 at 21:00:04 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Everyone Subject: How much for a satellite feed? Message: The first point that rankled Mr. Mueller, the asshole premie from Saltspring Island, B.C. when I talked with him at the cult meeting Sunday was this question about M possibly making a profit off the program. Of course he told me that that notion was out of the question. Why, I asked. 'Because I trust Maharaji a hundred pre cent', he smiled. 'I don't trust YOU, I don't trust MYSELF, but I trust him completely.' Downhill from there. So what do you figure? 8,000 people (so he said) at $40 a pop. $320,000. How much would the thing cost. (Of course this doesn't take into account any of the secondary income stream from stirring the devotional cauldron) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 00:52:53 (EDT)
From: Memphis Belle Email: None To: Jim Subject: He needs to start giving Message: I used to wonder that myself. Sitting in the hall at the Long Beach 97 Event way way up in the top seats, I would try to guestimate how many people there were. I figured about 50 people per row, 20 rows per section, and at least 20 sections = 20,000 people? x $20 = 400,000 (not counting donations of $400,000 ($20 per person) I should call the Long Beach convention center and find out how much it costs to rent that hall (the ice arena) for 3 days. Lets guestimate it costs $100,000. So the other money pays for plane fuel and hotel. Oh don't forget the fine dining, and the fine water, and the fine linens, and the fine flowers. And there musn't be any spots on the wine glasses. God does not appreciate the bare necessities that he created. Doesn't that mean he created dirt that gets on the wine glasses. Or does he have a heart attack at that creation too? Maharaji needs to accept the bare neccessities. Maharaji, why don't you stop it with all the best of everything. Why don't you understand that this is not the meaning of life. Although you surround yourself in it constantly. You would be getting closer to God, if you mailed a toothbrush, vitamins, and water to the people in Kosovo.(sp?) Maharaji, if you are reading this, or if you have someone reading this for you, (as I know you are because when I asked to receive K there was someone there writing down every word that I said), please show that the money you take goes to charity. Perhaps in a newsletter you could list where all of the money goes in your organization. Something like - 1997 Total gross - 4million 1million - expenses on events 3million - starving people in poor countries After all, you already have the finest of everything. You already have the finest of everything! It's time to start giving money to others for the bare necessities. God will appreciate you more. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 12:27:25 (EDT)
From: Helen Email: None To: Memphis Belle Subject: He needs to start giving Message: Good to hear from you, Memphis! Another smart ex-aspirant! Wish I had been as smart as you and Curley Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 20:02:03 (EDT)
From: Nil Email: None To: Memphis Belle Subject: You need to open your eyes Message: Maharaji, if you are reading this, or if you have someone reading this for you, (as I know you are because when I asked to receive K there was someone there writing down every word that I said), please show that the money you take goes to charity. Did you pay for Knowledge? Do the thousands who receive it in India/Africa/Asia pay for it? If you didn't have 20 bucks to sit in a hall to listen to him, would you be denied access? ... sounds like charity to me. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 23:53:41 (EDT)
From: A disgusted observer Email: None To: Nil Subject: Nil:YOU need to open your eyes Message: 'Did you pay for Knowledge? Do the thousands who receive it in India/Africa/Asia pay for it? If you didn't have 20 bucks to sit in a hall to listen to him, would you be denied access? ... sounds like charity to me.' Most of the Indians/Africans/Asians DO give plenty of their money as do the followers of most gurus etc. They consider it a privilage to give their Lord part of their pittance. I suggest you go live for a while with some of the poor Indian premies who live around Maharoli (Ms Delhi ashram) ans see how they live. Oh I forgot.....they are happy aren't they?!?! 'God is only for the rich'...rajneesh Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 10, 1999 at 21:07:08 (EDT)
From: Nil Email: None To: A disgusted observer Subject: Your slip is showing bud... Message: Most of the Indians/Africans/Asians DO give plenty of their money as do the followers of most guru... You ignorant asshole! You go to fucking India and see how people live... I've already been. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jun 11, 1999 at 02:54:05 (EDT)
From: A disgusted observer Email: None To: Nil, the typical Subject: What's wrong with my slip Message: I have been to and lived in . I have also lived in the holy one's ashram there. The only good thing I did there was that I did manage to convince one of the cooks that the purpose of his life was not to cook spinach for m's 'western' devotees for the rest of his life...........one soul saved. Oh yes...and wow...I was allowed to drink...wait for it.. ...residence water....yes residence water, unlike most of the rest of the people there. I felt soooooo privilaged, what can I say, it's like, .....well y'know. You must be an identical twin to catweasal. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jun 11, 1999 at 13:55:14 (EDT)
From: Nil Email: None To: A disgusted observer Subject: What's wrong with my slip Message: If you were there and say the Indian premies have lots of money, then all I can say is you are either really stupid, or full of bullshit. Get fucking real sailor!!!! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jun 11, 1999 at 16:08:29 (EDT)
From: A disgusted observer Email: None To: Nil Subject: What's wrong with my slip Message: Nil, lay opff the ketamin. It's a horse tranquilizer, Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Jun 12, 1999 at 05:23:52 (EDT)
From: 777 Email: no To: A disgusted observer Subject: What's wrong with my slip Message: Nil, lay opff the ketamin. It's a horse tranquilizer, You have had a {Big time learnning about that drugs, Huh? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 03:33:22 (EDT)
From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Jim Subject: Not much Message: I've investigated this a few years back, on my own behalf, before m would do it, just to have an idea: 1/ you have to rent a channel on satellites: very likely one for (over) the US, one for Europe, and maybe one for Asia. The price for an hour is virtually nothing, cauze they have plenty of channels free on plenty of unused or old satellites. The price would range from 20 $ to 100 $ maximum per hour. That means a few hundred $ for 3 or 4 satellites. 2/ then you need the up-link, from Visions to the satellite. That is much more expensive, and would cost about 1,000 $ per hour. Maybe much less if they have friends in the place, or if they use the equipment during the night. The problem is they will very likely need as many up-links as satellites used. 3/ the connection where the feed is received: nothing. I guess they rent halls with the equipment, or rent it for a few $. Premies, make your calculations. Anybody can easily check this. I got this info from an ingeneer specialised in satellite communication. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 08:05:24 (EDT)
From: Mary M Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: Not much Message: Hi Guys, Don't forget the tax write offs for the 'Profit/Active' companies involved. Me thinks these 'conventions' are convenient write-offs. Maybe that's why Rawat sneers at the lemmings. M Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 09:47:28 (EDT)
From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Mary M Subject: Rawat just earned $ 250,000 Message: My opinion is that: EV collects these $ 300,000 from premies and communities. One of those companies (owned by pams or Rawat) organize the feed and satellite transmission, they charge EV $ 300,000 or more for organizing the business, and have a gross profit over $ 250,000. Of course EV/Visions won't make any profit! And Rawat will of course get some huge 'gift' from someone .... Anybody having a better idea? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 10, 1999 at 18:31:44 (EDT)
From: JB Email: None To: Mary M Subject: Not much Message: 'Maybe that's why Rawat sneers at the lemmings.' What on earth is your appraisal of what 'Rawat' thinks based on? Anything first-hand at all? Have you ever met him? When did you last see him, 20-25 years ago? Or have you gleaned all of your wisdom from perusing corporate filings and lamenting Grandma's watch? You really don't know what you're talkiing about...though I do appreciate the Irish wit. JB Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 10, 1999 at 20:04:44 (EDT)
From: Mary M Email: None To: JB Subject: Not much (Long) Message: Hi JB, I think the last time I saw him was at Holi in '82. There were two times over the years I was within 2 feet of him alone. I'm tall, he's so vertically challenged that I felt sorry for him and walked away. The Corporate Record thing was in response to all the innuendos aimed at ex-es as many premies were calling them flagrant liars concerning the Church/Foundation of Elan Vitals business history. So, I look up the facts JB do a little ERD and the pieces of some puzzles fall together. Joan Apter and Michael Dettmers both count 'all those years' quite creatively on their vitaes. I take it that the policy is PWKs can exploit the past for their material gain, ex-es must never mention the past in their quest for closure and healing. Quite a double standard. Go look at their resumes on the Web. When you're through, I recommend you e-mail them respectively regarding your concern for them mentioning things that happened 20 to 25 years ago! Now, Nellie's watch was a symbol of the matriarchal bond from generation to generation in our family (it was quite an expensive watch too.) I think it's a natural inclination to try and figure out how one could have been so somnambulant not to have realized what was going on. JB, you are the first premie to comment on Nellie's watch and I thank you for that. You and I both know that there are premies and lurkers who know exactly where that watch and other premies valuables were taken after being collected in the 5 gallon pre-darshan buckets in London. If I have a psychological need to know then that's between my therapist and I as to why. In the mean time, I've been encouraged to keep asking. So if you do know, now is the time to step up and be a gentleman/gentlelady. Finally, I've noticed that some premie posters pull the 'that happened 20 to 25 years ago' trip suggestive perhaps that none of the experiences of that era counts. Let's go a step further than Apter/Dettmer EV la-de-da and acknowledge that life is a continuum. If premies feel so strongly that ex-es need to diss the past then let's just cancel the births of Premlata, Hansi, Daya, and Amar. Poof - they don't count. But you know full well they do count. Maharaji is able to give his children a corporation in their names. I would have liked to give my daughter Nellie's watch a few weeks ago. But hey, the shiester never got Nellie's 1922 Vintage Singer Sewing machine;-) Glad you like my humor lad/lass;-) Luv, Mary M Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 10, 1999 at 22:31:18 (EDT)
From: Memphis Belle Email: None To: Everyone Subject: M kids have REALLY nice cars Message: I worked at a place where I saw M's kids drive up in brand new Mercedes Benz, Big Ford pick-up Explorer, and convertables. Pretty nice stuff. They must work hard to get such nice things. M probably gets time and a half for overtime to pay for those puppies. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 10, 1999 at 22:48:10 (EDT)
From: Mary M Email: None To: Memphis Belle Subject: M kids have REALLY nice cars Message: Hi Memphis, I had heard they drove luxury cars. What a price they must pay for such luxury. Time will tell. Love, mare Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jun 11, 1999 at 01:50:18 (EDT)
From: Prancing too! Email: None To: Mary M Subject: M kids have REALLY nice cars Message: Hi Mary, Yes time will tell. Also, as they walked in the building most people would stop and watch them prance around. It was like they were royalty or something. I worry about those kids. What will they be thinking when they are 80 and there is no perfect Master who is their father. Love, Memphis (Of course you know I don't really live in Memphis, it's a cover because I am a lot closer than I care to admit. Too many contacts. But Memphis seems like a safe place to me.) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Jun 12, 1999 at 10:36:13 (EDT)
From: Mary M Email: None To: JB Subject: JB - No reply at all? Message: Hi JB, I take it you have 'No reply at all?' to my response? Luv, mare Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Jun 08, 1999 at 17:19:31 (EDT)
From: AJW Email: None To: Barney & Everyone Subject: SHP IS INNOCENT OK Message: Hi Barney, Banning shp is a mistake. It's censorship for no just reason. It looks like you're trying to shut him up. What is it you don't want him to say? Why not let him say it, then tell him what you think? Or if you don't think he warrants a response, don't respond. I like chatting with premies on the Forum, and as a recent departure from the flock, I understand where they're coming from. The most abrasive contributors to the Forum seem to be exes. So, is anyone else banned besides shp? And down below are all these people talking about him and he can't respond. What are the terms of his ban? Is it indefinite? Without redemption? Censorship sucks, writhes, demeans, corrupts, disturbs and stinks. Lets have some freedom. That's why I left the cult. Anth, chairperson SIIC (Shp Is Innocent' Campaign). Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Jun 08, 1999 at 19:13:03 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: AJW Subject: Give me a break Message: Anth, Shp is a major irritant. This isn't a public park, it's a hosted forum. What the fuck's wrong with having some standards? Oh, you don't get to boast that yours is the freeest site in the world? Big deal. What matters is the content of the discussion. Shp abused everyone's trust by posing as a bunch of people, persisting in irrelevant campaigns (like against me) and just being stupid. Personally, I think it's absolutely fantastic that premies who post here realize that enough obfuscation, irrelevant ad hominem attacks and other time-wasters can, in the aggregate, earn them a ticket out of here. And as for commenting on Shp in his absence? Serves him right. I hope he's enjoying it. By the way, banning Shp is not a censorship issue. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Jun 08, 1999 at 20:10:46 (EDT)
From: gregg Email: None To: Jim Subject: bye shp! Message: As one who has been conversing (oops, sorry, non-cyberword) on this site for a month or so, I have to concur with shp's removal. I have begun to see that there are certain folks (usually illiterate, usually premies [though some, like Rob, are literate premies]) who get everybody else pissed off by their rants...and then this site turns into something other than what I would like it to be: a rational (and, OK, sometimes emotional) forum for ex-premies and and willing premies to chat. About stuff. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Jun 08, 1999 at 20:10:43 (EDT)
From: Katie Email: mishkat@gateway.net To: AJW Subject: To AJW & all Message: Hi Anth - I just wanted to make one thing clear: I would NOT have commented on the 'SHP is banned' thread if SHP HIMSELF hadn't asked for feedback in one of his e-mails that Barney posted. I suppose that SHP was expecting to get feedback that was more like yours than mine, but 'them's the breaks' (as we rednecks here in the US say :). I also made a comment which I wish everyone here would take to heart (and this is not addressed specifically to you, Anth). The forum/site webmaster's job, which Barney has agreed to take on, is NOT just what people see here on the forum, although that's plenty (IMHO!). There's a lot of stuff that Barney does that people don't see, and may not appreciate. As far as banning SHP permanently - I think Barney said in his very first post that he'd be willing to unblock him if SHP didn't feel the need to attack Jim under assumed names. I assume this is still the case. Take care - Katie Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Jun 08, 1999 at 20:12:55 (EDT)
From: Gregg Email: None To: Katie Subject: To AJW & all Message: say, pardon my cyber-ignorance, but what does IMHO mean; and what does OT mean? thanx. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Jun 08, 1999 at 20:17:24 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Gregg Subject: I know! I know! Message: IMHO means I Might Have Other opinions but I'm keeping them to myself. OT is short for Ottawa. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Jun 08, 1999 at 20:20:50 (EDT)
From: Katie Email: None To: Gregg Subject: IMHO and OT Message: Hi Gregg - (And this is a SERIOUS answer - snicker): IMHO = In My Honest Opinion (or) In My Humble Opinion. Some people just write IMO (In My Opinion). OT = Off Topic Here's a few freebies, which you may already know: (nt) = No Text ROTFL = Rolling On The Floor Laughing LOL = Laughing Out Loud Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Jun 08, 1999 at 20:39:32 (EDT)
From: Don Email: None To: Katie Subject: Others Message: SIP: Stupid Ignorant Premie IWITASIK: I Was In The Ashram So I Know YNATAM: You Were Not At Those Ashram Meetings. WAAMM?: What About All Maharaji's Money? YAAPCM: You Are A Programmed Cult Member LOCS Lots Of CultSpeak IMIWAAPWU: In My Infinite Wisdom As A Premie With Understanding MHAMIAAIAAGMCSOB: Maharaji Has A Mistress, Is An Alcoholic And Is A Greedy, Money Crazed Son Of A Bitch Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Jun 08, 1999 at 21:34:04 (EDT)
From: gregg Email: None To: Don Subject: cybercode Message: Don: FYI: This is the first time on the Forum I have been ROTFL. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Jun 08, 1999 at 20:24:47 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: heller@bc1.com To: AJW Subject: How about this? Message: Just an idea. How about letting Shp back in if and when he produces his answer from Maharaji about Jagdeo? That's fair, isn't it? And even if it isn't, can't we pretend it is? Come on, Shp. You really wasted so much of our time here. So many peopel tried to reason with you while you just turned your mind off, slept like a baby and had us talk into your answering machine. Then you seemed to wake up with some real, heartfelt indignation. So, bud, we're all waiting. What happened? Email Barney, perhaps. Or maybe me if you feel like it. [Not to say that it's up to me if and when Shp ever returns. Personally, I think he's done about all he can do here. But it would be interesting to see him come up with something on that issue. Even if it means letting him back in.] Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Jun 08, 1999 at 21:23:08 (EDT)
From: Marianne Email: None To: Jim Subject: Did M respond to Shp? Message: Jim; You know I've been out of commission a lot over the last month or so. I am not sure I understood your post. Did Shp actually receive a response from M about jagdeo Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Jun 08, 1999 at 21:06:50 (EDT)
From: Peace and Freedom Party Email: None To: AJW Subject: Amber waves of Grain Message: What are you guys, anyways? A bunch of communists? Is'n't t'h'i's A'Merica? FREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHPFREESHP Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Jun 08, 1999 at 21:14:51 (EDT)
From: Diz Email: None To: AJW Subject: SHP IS INNOCENT OK Message: Hi Anth I've been considering saying something on this topic, too, although I'm less sure than you. I do have an aversion to cutting anyone out of the discussion, precisely because I felt that that was done to me in the cult. I still feel there's a lot I can't say because of the cult rules, and their effect on people around me. I HATE that stifling of opinion. (BTW, I don't like it in other arenas, either. Particularly when social and political issues are being debated, and people use political correctness, or accusations of pc, or personal insults to silence or trivialise other points of view.) The flip-side is that I don't get much, if anything, out of the hard-core premie-ex exchanges. Particularly when they degenerate into personal attacks. I think Barney's statement of site priorities is great - we aren't primarily here to provide a forum for premies to air their views. I WOULD like a place to communicate with ex-premies without constant risk of premie flak. Yes, I know this implies that I'm not open to any and all challenges: I differ here from many other exes, as I've said before, I'm a wimp. For me, the depth of conditioning both in MJ's way of seeing things, and in questionning MYSELF is huge, and I have a great need to get free of that stuff in order to sort out where I'm at post-MJ. This is a delicate task, which involves some very vulnerable parts of my heart and soul ('scuse language). I get the distinct impression that although ex-premies can and do challenge my thinking, they're more likely that the average premie to have some respect for my experiences and understanding. I don't want to spend ages trying to get premies to understand why I see MJ the way I do. Most won't get it anyway. Guess what I'm saying is that this isn't just some intellectual exercise for me. At present, I'm trying to do the more delicate sorting-out work via e-mail, ie. out of the public light. I have great admiration for those like Gail who do a lot more of it on the forum. Premies have many opportunities to get together with other premies, to hear MJ's message in places where there's no challenges to the party line. Exes don't have much opportunity to work through the issues of being an ex, without the challenge of people who basically think they're off the wall. I don't think there's a solution to this dilemma. I don't think a separate 'exes-only' forum would get far, and there'd be the problem of who to let in. I wouldn't like Barney's job, and Barney, this isn't a criticism of your decision, really, it's just some comments which may be relevant. What a rave! Diz Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Jun 08, 1999 at 21:20:39 (EDT)
From: Liz Email: None To: Diz Subject: SHP IS INNOCENT OK Message: I am at the sorting out stage and as I've just emailed to someone I'm not into publishing my confusion all over the ex-site. So if you would like to communicate I would be glad to help in any way. You can get my email address from Katie. Love, Liz Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Jun 08, 1999 at 23:31:38 (EDT)
From: Gail Email: None To: Liz Subject: Maybe SHP could come back Message: if he agrees to use his own handle unless he is making a joke. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 05:30:57 (EDT)
From: AJW Email: None To: Diz Subject: SHP Smells Freedom Message: Hi Diz, I like talking to the premies. It gives me a chance to test out my new sword of freedom on them. I love it when I ask them questions like, 'What is a cult', and they quietly terminate the conversation, or disappear to another thread. I also like watching the debates. Also, if you stand shp next to your average premie, he or she (shp) is obviously more open minded than most. Most are scared even to look at the forum. One recent conversation I had with shp made me think he's down to his last dollar with Maharaji. Of course he's not going to admit his doubts to people who are slagging him off all the time, but why was he hanging around here so long? He smells freedom. (Well he did before he was gagged, maybe he smells something else now) Anth the Barrack Room Lawyer. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 00:09:09 (EDT)
From: barney Email: None To: AJW Subject: SHP was a pest Message: (God, another long one.) Gosh, I just got home after a nice afternoon of Lapp dancing and now this! Man, those Lapps are a real interesting people. I haven't gotten my daily email from shp yet which will detail what a bunch of creeps we are to paraphrase him liberally. After reading that deprogramming site, which might be pro-cult, I've become more aware of what we are dealing with when it comes to premies coming here. As we ourselves know, we are dealing with people who have a truly heartfelt belief that Maharaji is God (let's not mince words here) and many have held that belief for twenty five years or more. Here at the Forum most of us have let go of that belief. So, we've got this diametrically opposed discussion where they cannot win in this venue - the same as we could not win in a video hall or at an event or at one of their chatrooms if they had a real one. Who knows why they come here? Some come to just flame the enemy that we are to them. Some come to try to set the so-called record straight. Some come because they have doubts. I came because I first came to the Forum because I was looking for interesting Maharaji stories, good or bad. So again, back to the concept of deprogramming. I really don't know that much about it, but let's assume the stereotype where you're locked up and they wear you down with hard questioning about the validity of your cult. Well, sometimes it isn't pretty and, in fact, it probably gets pretty ugly because cult members have such a deep indoctrination that provides standard answers to all the obvious hard hitting questions. Thus, they hold onto their faith with their ducking and dodging and refusal to look at it rationally and logically. The discussion ends in a frustrated stalemate. Ok, sometimes you get some premie who comes here who is really on the fence and the challenge that is posed to them snaps them out of it. Now, not to say that it is the explicit intent of ex-premies here at the Forum to deprogram premies. It might be more of refusing to sit quietly in total disbelief at some of the absolutely ridiculous statements made by premies. Yet, we all probably have been there ourselves. We do, after all, have first hand Knowledge of where they're coming from. So, shp first came to the Forum, say, last summer. His pretense was that he was on the fence and wanted to find out more. Practically everyone on this Forum spent time being kind and patient with shp. And then it went on. And it went on. And it became apparent that shp was probably not really on the fence and was, in fact, evasive. And worse than that shp was coming off as some kind of holy man of the world offering peace and love as a closing after spitting in your face. However, he was really slipping the old satsang in there. It became transparent and obvious. It was like shp had a mission. And it didn't seem like it would ever end. It became pointless. Shp had become a pest. Then there was the public calling for the ouster of shp. Shp was almost monopolizing the Forum and in every thread. Too much mindspace, bandwidth, and too many cycles were being spent on shp, IMHO. So, after the call for his ban shp kind of said a farewell and disappeared for a while. In a matter of weeks he returned and the whole thing started again. Eventually, shp disappeared off the map. And at about the same time Government Inspector (G.I.) arrived on the scene to pretty much go toe to toe with Jim. And G.I. no longer being shp could be as rude as he pleased without the final peace and love salutation. It was a Jekyll and Hyde kind of thing. And perhaps, shp was also here prior to G.I. as someone else. So, what it looked like to me was that we had gone through the deprogramming bit with shp and he was still going to believe in his Master. Yet, in those discussions (some got pretty rough) shp got blasted by a lot of people here. So, you've got this guy who's probably got an axe to grind and he starts showing up wearing a mask and basically messing with people's minds. I mean the guy thinks he's Zorro or something trying to set the world's wrongs right and carving a Z on your forehead and riding off into the night. And he starts posting as Rico Suave, Wonderfulman, et al. I don't mind that people occasionally post with a bogus name, but there has to be a valid reason like comedy or trying to hide one's identity when revealing personal details. I really must say that I strongly object to shp's misuse of posting names with these characters. It is very misleading. You see a new name and assume that it is a new person and give your best to him or her and find out that you've been duped. Shp abused the Forum. He was abusing our good will. I'd like to tighten up the Forum where everyone registers for their permanent posting handle. They would login with a password. I would allow them to post with a bogus name, but it would be marked as such and there would be an indicator that it belongs to a valid member of the Forum. Guests would be able to post, perhaps with a limitation until they get a permanent posting name. Posts by guests would be marked as such. Perhaps this is too stifling, I don't know. All privacy would be respected and it would not involve sending in your email address. So, there it is. Let's see what it's like without shp. I'm hoping that shp may see it as a blessing in disguise as it seemed to me that the whole thing was degenerating into something rather ugly. I think that shp means well and is a good person and I wish him the best. I really detest being reviled as such, but it was getting pointless, ugly, and was detracting from the Forum. Finally, Shp can post at Premies and Friends (Chris Dickey's Forum for Premies.) Ok, it's sorta minor leagues, but it's better than nothing. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 01:30:21 (EDT)
From: Mickey the Pharisee Email: None To: barney Subject: SHP was a pest Message: Barney, I think that you did the right thing; shp had become more than an irritant, he was flooding the forum almost as bad as QWP or whoever that moron was. I don't think that the purpose of the Forum is to satisfy shp's need for attention. Don't back down; you are the webmaster and it is obvious that you have not banned shp without some agonizing and some serious examination of your reasons for doing so. I, for one, support you in this. Michael Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 02:42:40 (EDT)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Mickey the Pharisee Subject: SHP was a pest Message: Dear Barney, I just wanted to say on the forum that although I didn't read enough of Sandy to experience him as a pest, and that is why I have stayed silent up until now, I do support you as webmaster to make the desicion and that I do trust that you did what you did because you had good reason. Thanks, I know it is a tough job and it is good to know you didn't just do it without serious consideration. Love, Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 04:02:32 (EDT)
From: barney Email: None To: Robyn Subject: I sought guidance from... Message: Yes, it was a difficult decision (seriously.) And I asked myself what would my Master, my Lord, my Guru Maharaji do? And right then and there the grace came and on the TV was a Nike Just Do It commercial and I knew that Maharaji had spoken to me. The clarity was there and that beautiful, beautiful experience was there too. I did the deed. I right mouse clicked on his name. The context menu came up. I drew down with the mousepointer onto Delete User. I paused. I took two quick breaths, remembered Holy Name and then I clicked the left mousebutton and it was done. I stepped back from the computer as it began its long arduous task. I looked at the picture on my desk of my wife, Stella and the kids. I walked over the wet bar and poured a glass of scotch that Brother Rob sent me for which I'll always be grateful and let him stay on the Forum forever. I held the glass up in my shaking hand and I stared at a picture that hangs over the fireplace, a picture of Maharaji in his pilot suit proudly standing next to his Gulfstream. I snapped my head back and slammed the entire glass of twenty year old scotch down my throat, hardly bothering to taste it at all. I dropped the glass onto the plush Dupont Karastan carpet that I paid $75 a square foot for. I walked over to the triple paned window and opened it and before I knew it I began shouting 'I'm as mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore!' and then I proceeded to pass out, out cold. Woke up a few hours later and because I had left the window open the room was completely filled with a swarm of buzzing locusts with their beady green eyes looking at me. They suddenly stopped buzzing as I sat up and started to rub my aching head. Everytime I attempt to stand up and start to walk towards the bathroom they start that buzzing. We've been in this stalemate for nearly two hours now. Apparently, they don't mind if I use my Palm Pilot to surf the net and tell you what's happening. I sure hope that I did the right thing. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 11:25:00 (EDT)
From: g's mom Email: None To: barney Subject: Bhole Shri Barney Ki Jai! (nt) Message: nt Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 10, 1999 at 03:16:03 (EDT)
From: KB Email: None To: Mickey the Pharisee Subject: Ditto-(nt) Message: gj;f Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 01:49:02 (EDT)
From: Curly Email: None To: barney Subject: SHP was a pest Message: Barney, just out of curiosity. Did you suspect me of being SHP? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 03:19:06 (EDT)
From: barney Email: None To: Curly Subject: No, didn't suspect that, why? Message: Oh, my god! Please don't tell me that you're shp! I can't take it anymore. I'm going completely insane! aaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 09:38:39 (EDT)
From: Curly Email: None To: barney Subject: No, didn't suspect that, why? Message: Just because you asked me so many questions. I dunno, with this SHP issue going on and the fact that he was using different names; for a moment I thought you were testing me to see if I was him. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 12:27:34 (EDT)
From: barney Email: None To: Curly Subject: No test Message: Coirly, Nah, no test. I was just very interested in the aspirant process. I got in a long time ago and left only a little while ago. I was aware of the *New and Improved* process, but wanted to see if it had changed since I left. Thanks Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 05:38:20 (EDT)
From: AJW Email: None To: barney Subject: SHP was a pest Message: Thanks for taking the time to explain all that barney. Anth the thoughtful. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 07:48:40 (EDT)
From: 777 Email: no To: barney Subject: pests Message: I'd like to tighten up the Forum where everyone registers for their permanent posting handle. They would login with a password. I would allow them to post with a bogus name, but it would be marked as such and there would be an indicator that it belongs to a valid member of the Forum. Guests would be able to post, perhaps with a limitation until they get a permanent posting name. Posts by guests would be marked as such. Perhaps this is too stifling, I don't know. ______________________________________________________________ No, thanks --- just do your, webmaster/Host, {job / Service}, 'thank you', and all should be fine, if not, well, let us cross that bridge if and when needed, but, you have come into the real thing that needs to be looked at not just here, but, in many places, and I have done some looking at it my self, {it}/the best way to discuss things, needs to be explored......... For now, you are doing on a scale of 1-10, a, {8-plus}! Maybe a 10. Maybe a ?? I hope to revisit this, best way to discuss things subject soon. I have to end this for now, I'm being called away....... Some things that come to me: Cast not pearls before swine You do not need to be afraid of eating that, apple? Question authority. Have to go, bye............ Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 10:30:30 (EDT)
From: Helen Email: None To: barney Subject: to Barney the angst Message: I have to agree with Mickey, barney. shp was becoming incredibly annoying. His exalted sense of himself as some kind of angel, and his constant need for attention here were de-railing the forum's purpose. I know I agonized off line with you a little about this, but I really do think you did the right thing. I would suggest you stop agonizing about it and go forward. It's funny how this whole thread is STILL giving shp MORE ATTENTION. ARRGHHHH!! You have authority here now and not everyone is going to agree with you all the time, that's part of life as a non-premie: disagreement, conflict, and uncertainty. I think you can live with your decision and still allow others to disagree with you. Hey I am like SO PSYCHED that the new Austin Powers movie is about to open so I just can't be like, bummed, about this, you know, man? Lots of love from Helen Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 11:46:21 (EDT)
From: Helen Email: None To: all Subject: to Barney the angst Message: Lest I gave the wrong impression Barney and I chatted off line about when or if it's ever appropriate to boot people off the forum, we didn't specifically talk about the shp issue. I am generally opposed to blocking people just because they act like assholes. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 15:11:36 (EDT)
From: Marianne Email: None To: Helen Subject: Austin Powers (OT) Message: Helen: I too love Austin Powers! I love the little Dr. Evil guy they have, and the ads where he's chewing the cat's ear. My cats don't like it though. I read an interview with Mike Myers in which he described how he came up with the character. He said he was trying to find the persona that would most irritate his wife. That's what he came up with. The first movie was such a great compilation of '60's flicks -- Beatles, In Like Flint, Bond, Barbarella (sort of), etc. Ah yes, youth! Sounds like you had a nice weekend w/hubby! Love, Marianne Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 15:20:53 (EDT)
From: Helen Email: None To: Marianne Subject: Austin Powers (OT) Message: Smashing, baby! I got a Austin Power's head key chain for my friend's son as a high school graduation gift. That's pretty funny that he wanted to annoy his wife. I heard that his coffee klatch character was a take off of his mother in law but that she was a good sport about it. I think he is a genius and really cute too. I love a man who makes me laugh! Yes, hubby and I had fun, he is very silly so we are highly compatible! We saw a good movie 'Cookie's Fortune' a Robert Altman movie, I highly recommend it By the way when we toured Monticello the tour guide addressed the Sally Hemings issue in the first two sentences. I guess they're taking the pro-active approach! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 15:29:37 (EDT)
From: Marianne Email: None To: Helen Subject: Monticello (OT) Message: Helen: I am glad to hear that the folks at Monticello are acknowledging the Hemings part of the family. Is that what they said? I saw a few interviews with the white Jefferson descendant who was really promoting the acceptance of the Hemings decendants, and it made me glad. The behaviour of some of the white folks at the annual event was despicable though. It must have gotten lots of press where you are. One of my ex friends has a son who is graduating from high school in a couple of weeks. I'm going to run out and get him an Austin Powers head key chain too! Maybe I'll get one for myself too! Shagadelic, Marianne Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 17:39:03 (EDT)
From: Helen Email: None To: Marianne Subject: Monticello (OT) Message: The keychain is a plastic head that says four different Austin Powers sayings. I hope you can find one! If you're in S.F. I'm sure you'll be able to! Jason (my friend's son) loves it. Re: Monticello: It's pretty funny how cache it is to be a descendent of this or that famous person in the U.S. And how shocking it is to some of these descendents if there's black blood in the family line. There was so much mixing of the races in slavery days, black folks certainly aren't in denial about it. There's a book I want to read about Sally Hemmings--my co-worker told me the title but I forget what it's called. Regardless of the fact that TJ owned slaves, he was an amazing man. Monticello was very interesting. I have a famous ancestorWade Hampton, who was a confederate civil war general. You wouldn't believe how the folks from Columbia, S.C. still think he's royalty . It's kind of embarrasing to my family because he had more slaves than anyone in the south and was the richest man in the south. But he is everywhere (statues, etc) in the south. He is very famous in the South. My parents donated his sword and his papers to the National Archives Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 19:05:07 (EDT)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Marianne Subject: Mike Myers(OT) Message: Hey, Although I didn't like Austin Powers I LOVED Mike's Coffee talk skit on SNL, absoultly loved it. :) Also a friend was married to an alcoholic named Austin and everyone called him Austin Limits. It was a sad situation but the name was perfect and to funny! Love, Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 19:45:06 (EDT)
From: Marianne Email: None To: Robyn Subject: Mike Myers(OT) Message: Hey Robyn! I loved the Coffee Lady too. Did you see the old SNL in the early days? I loved Jane Curtain and Dan Akroyd on the news. Even though it was so un pc, I liked it when Dan said, 'Jane, you ignorant slut!' She always had a come back for him. I saw your posts about where you live. From your email, it seems like rustic Arizona. I lived in places with wood stoves too. I once lived in a house on top of Mt. Tamalpais, in Marin County, across the GG Bridge from SF, where the house sat on the side of the mountain and was held up on one corner by a large chair leg! Those were the days, girlfriend! Love, Marianne Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 19:55:05 (EDT)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Marianne Subject: Mike Myers(OT) Message: Dear Marianne, I remember when Coffee Talk was a man, Mike Myers and it was notthing until he became a woman! Yes, when I was in highschool SNL started and we would go to this one friends house and her parents would buy us liquor as long as we stayed overnight, the girls, she'd have us drive the boys home though!!! Before the days of DWI's. It was a weekly event and we had a great time. I love the story of the chair leg holding up the house on the side of a mountain, to funny, but a bit scary to live there maybe. I do have 3 neighbors here but we are all pretty secluded from each other by trees ect. I never understood why they cluster houses in the country. I always wanted to live in the cent of 100 acres and have a truck with a snow plow or live in a warmer climate! :) It is real rustic when the plumbing doesn't work and I have to bath in the creek! I like to bath in the creek sometimes but resent HAVING to do it. Ah well, at least it has been warm and beautiful. Love, Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 19:01:25 (EDT)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Helen Subject: The Spy Who Shagged Me Message: Dear Helen, Did you see the first Autin Powers? I didn't like it and have no interest in seeing this one but from writting to people in England I know what Shagg means so I do like the title! Shagg=Fuck if I remember it correctly. Love, Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 21:20:15 (EDT)
From: Helen Email: None To: Robyn Subject: The Spy Who Shagged Me Message: I loved the first movie but I am really corny and silly and love stuff like that. I also loved the Wayne's World movies, yes shag means fuck in Brit-slang Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 10, 1999 at 08:22:54 (EDT)
From: Austin Email: None To: Helen Subject: I'm psyched too, baby Message: Hey I am like SO PSYCHED that the new Austin Powers movie is about to open so I just can't be like, bummed, about this, you know, man? Yeah, baby! Haha, YEAH! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 10, 1999 at 13:13:15 (EDT)
From: Helen Email: None To: Austin Subject: Austin baby! Message: Austin, some may say you have bad teeth and that your chest hair rug is unattractive but I find you verrry sexy, baby!! Let's go down to the Pussycat Swingers Psychadelic Club and get crazy. I have go-go boots and I'll dance in one those cages for you, baby. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 10, 1999 at 13:21:30 (EDT)
From: Marianne Email: None To: Helen Subject: Austin baby! Message: Helen: Get away, pussycat! He's mine! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 10, 1999 at 14:53:13 (EDT)
From: Helen Email: None To: Marianne Subject: Austin baby! Message: We can both be his! In the tradition of the cheesy British spy thriller, we can both be beautiful exotic-looking spies with names like Pussy Galor and Alotta Fagina. Don't expect me to wear a skin tight leather pant suit though. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jun 11, 1999 at 18:22:29 (EDT)
From: Austin Email: None To: Helen Subject: Austin baby! Message: Easy, ladies. There's plenty of love for all. Mmmm. So, tell me, baby. Do I make you horny? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jun 11, 1999 at 23:05:23 (EDT)
From: Helen Email: None To: Austin Subject: Austin --I adore you Message: I just saw you in your new movie, baby!! You were adorable as always. Men who make us laugh are the sexiest, that's all we women want you know. I loved the actress from 'Third Rock from the Sun' who played Ivana Humpalot. She was priceless!! The best scene is when you and she are playing a 'hot' game of chess and she licks the chess piece to turn you on and then you try to do it and swallow the chess piece. ha ha! You're an original baby!! Loved it, baybeeee Yeah!! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 13:43:54 (EDT)
From: barney Email: None To: AJW Subject: last email from shp Message: This is the last of it. There will be no more. This Forum has been overly dominated by Shri Bodhisattva SHP in his endless quest of getting attention. Following is his latest email (with typos intact): Barney and Anth, I just wanted a witnesses, Anth. Barney got real authoritative in all caps with gerry for asking to see Sandra's tits. Then just a few posts further down, Jim says 'fuck you' to her and I don't hear a peep out of the WebMaster admonishing Hellhound. (Maybe he just needs a scratch behind the ears and a bone.) How obvious do you want it? this is a 'Kangaroo Forum', run from behind the curtains by someone who profits from and is an officer of the 'real' court. I don't expect justice or feedback, Barn. I'm just rubbing your consensual hypocrisy in your face, WebMaster Barney. Your webmastery reminds me of the police officer who held down Abner Louima while another officer shoved a strick up his ass and hurt him real bad internally (NYC). He got punished too, bigtime. You are an accessory. How does it feel being a two-dimensional cardboard facade for Jim to commit cyber assault and battery? Watch out for strong winds, because unless you anchor yourself better in the truth, you will blow over reall easy. Shp sees AJW as a way to get his door-to-door salesman foot in the door once again. I am responding to this because it does contain an important issue and that issue is sexual harassment. I strongly feel that it is very wrong and in extremely poor taste to use sexual harassment against anyone on the Forum. However, shp uses this as a red herring and tries in his usual obsfucation to relate it to something else. While fuck you might not be the nicest thing to say, it is pretty much part of the common nomenclature and does not usually represent direct sexual harassment. Shp, bringing up the Abner Louima sodomy and drawing a comparison to what I've done on the Forum shows just how sick you are and how completely fixated you are with Jim. That's it shp! No more! I was considering once in awhile opening the Forum for you for a week or so, but no more. Nothing! NEVER! Shp, your innnate propensity to make a complete spiritually superior, politically correct, boring asshole of yourself is unlimited. Regardless of the free speech issues involved, most of us are sick to death of you and it's simply time for you to leave. ADMITTEDLY, I AM A BAD WEBMASTER. AND JIM COULD NEVER PAY ME ENOUGH TO PUT UP WITH THIS BULLSHIT. Again, I think that once you distance yourself from this experience you will see how unhealthy it has been for you. I'm not going to waste anymore time on this, shp. You can stop sending email to me because I'm going to apply a rule that deletes it upon arrival. THE END! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 14:53:27 (EDT)
From: Katie Email: mishkat@gateway.net To: barney Subject: last email from shp Message: Way to go, Barney! I really appreciate what you said about sexual harrassment of ANYONE on the forum (female or male). As I said above in my message to Sandra, I think it's way out of line, although it's quite common on the Net - sheesh, just try posting under a woman's name ANYWHERE on the Internet and see what kind of responses you get. The people on this forum are actually fairly well behaved as compared to the cyber community at large, to tell you the truth. And I agree with you about 'fuck you' and other profanity used here. I know it offends some people and I'm sorry for that. But Jim is NOT the only one who uses profanity here, by a long shot, and admonishing people for using profanity here would be a full-time job for any webmaster. (I am never sure if the other people here realize that the webmaster VOLUNTEERS his time, by the way. And that he/she also has a life outside the forum.) I am sure one could put a profanity blocker on the forum, but what would be the point? (Especially since blockers only block correctly spelled profanity!) I don't dislike Sanford (shp) - in fact, I've even stuck up for him a couple of times on the forum, and I've appreciated some of his posts. I guess I just cannot understand why he would want to post on the forum so badly that he'd use multiple identities and resort to the kind of insults Barney posted in his e-mail above. And, by the way, AND for the umpteenth time, JIM DOES NOT RUN THIS FORUM. Sheesh! Jim is just a guy who posts here. (And he does have his own e-mail address, by the way, if anyone wants to address their comments ABOUT him directly to him! I'm sure Barney would appreciate that, by the way.) To re-iterate history, Brian agreed to take over the forum/site webmastering when David Stirling, the previous webmaster, wanted out of the job. Brian ran the forum and site for a year and a half, with my assistance (sometimes two heads can be better than one). It's kind of a burn-out job, as I'm sure Barney will testify, and when Brian decided he wanted to do something else for a change, we asked Barney, who has the technical and personal skills, if he'd be willing to do it. Brian and I both appreciate Barney's willingness to take over a tough job, especially since it seems like he's had sort of a baptism by fire. Take care, Katie Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 15:23:03 (EDT)
From: Marianne Email: None To: Barney Subject: last email from shp Message: Barney: You spent way too much time justifying yourself to this guy, IMHO. I do appreciate that you are trying to be fair, and to educate others about the way the Forum is being run. Your effort was Herculean with Shp. I wonder what he got out of this. Does he have friends? I don't mean this as an insult, but why isn't he out at satsang or hanging with his premie friends, or something? He seemed to have made the Forum the totality of his existence. Posting repeatedly under other names and ethnic personas, like Rico Suave, seems a tad unbalanced to me. So he can't post here anymore, big deal! Analogizing Barney's behavior to the NYPD is so out of proportion to what has actually occurred that it makes me think he's not playing with a completely full deck. So Barney, I support you and don't think you should have to waste your precious time on Shp. Waste it on me instead!!!! Marianne Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 16:48:05 (EDT)
From: gerry Email: None To: all Subject: sandbox for sandy Message: I thought the last e-mail from shp was hilarious. I'm still chuckling to myself. Yes, it was very funny indeed, but I'm still going with Powerman's ''People like Sandra'' as my LOL of the day choice. What to do with shp...hmmm let's see...I could restart the old sheep channel and set it up so it looked exactly like this forum, and shp could respond to every post. It would'nt show up anywhere but on the sheep channel. He'd think he was on the real ex forum, and he could be different identities and post answers to all his own posts to other peoples posts... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jun 11, 1999 at 23:11:41 (EDT)
From: KB Email: None To: gerry Subject: sandbox for sandy Message: If you do, let me know. I had some fun there at the sheep channel. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 16:50:41 (EDT)
From: Mike Email: None To: Marianne Subject: shp is a gra-jee-at Message: of the Steve Gaskin school of bad-analogies! I've seen some obsessive people, but I've never seen someone obsess like shp has (over Jim). Barney: Good Job! I agree with Marianne, you have gone way too far trying to justify your actions to shp. He just isn't worth it, but I do respect your care in making any such decisions. Great Job, our forum is in good hands, me thinks! :-) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 17:18:00 (EDT)
From: barney Email: None To: NRA Mike Subject: yes, but there is one thing... Message: What to do with NRA Mike? Hmmmmmm.... Ok, I just checked and you have answered my grizzly bear question. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 17:25:55 (EDT)
From: Gail Email: None To: barney Subject: Gun Rights--Is this true? Message: Originally, Americans were given the Constitutional right to bear arms in case their government(s) got out of hand. The people could just oust them by force. Wasn't this to prevent government from becoming too powerful and oppressive? After all, that's why the poor blokes left jolly old England in the first place. Mike clearly stated his position on the gun issue. I don't think he's coming to get us and he's a thoughtful ex. Please don't ban him. Banishment is a cruel thing. Just ask SHP. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 17:30:44 (EDT)
From: barney Email: None To: Gail Subject: For you, Gail... Message: Ok, Gail. Because you're so nice and can't go to Montreal and because I owe you one I'll let Mike stay on at the Forum. But, I'm gonna install a metal detector and all guns have to be checked in before you enter the saloon. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 10, 1999 at 05:58:53 (EDT)
From: AJW Email: None To: Gail Subject: Jolly Old England Message: Hi Gail, You wrote, 'After all, that's why the poor blokes left jolly old England in the first place.' They didn't leave because the government was too oppresive. They were in a wierd religious cult and we kicked them out. What their descendants subsequently did to the USA confirms that we made the right decision. Anth. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 10, 1999 at 07:00:41 (EDT)
From: Gail Email: None To: AJW Subject: Jolly Old England Message: You are right. The Puritans did leave for religious freedom. Obviously, their religious zeal wore off after a few generations, eh? Wasn't there a complaint about high taxes and double taxation as well (like Canada--we need to have a Boston Tea Party over here)? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 10, 1999 at 12:47:53 (EDT)
From: Mike Email: None To: AJW Subject: Ok, that's IT!!!!!! Message: AJW: HA....Made ya look! :-) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jun 11, 1999 at 04:02:38 (EDT)
From: AJW Email: None To: Mike Subject: Ok, that's IT!!!!!! Message: No you didn't, I had my eyes closed when I clicked. Anth the blind Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 10, 1999 at 12:39:57 (EDT)
From: Mike Email: None To: Gail Subject: Thank You Gail! Message: Gail: You are quite correct in your assessment of 'why' the second amendment was put in place. It was/is there to do just that. Hopefully, it will NEVER come to that, but that is why it's there. The British forbade gun ownership by colony residents and tried to remove them all. The founding fathers wanted to ensure that this never happened again. Nah, I don't want to 'come and get' anybody. I'm a much more peaceful guy than that. There is a difference between duty and enjoyment (I never enjoyed 'that' duty, I just did the best I could, as I swore that I would). Hey Gail, what was the 'highlighted' Mike's Artillery Emporium(?) about in the 'bear' thread? he he he. Actually, it's 'Guido's Pizzaria and Fine Shootery.' We sell pizza to the people shooting on our range....(someitmes they shoot the pizza, if it's no good) JUST KIDDING! JEEEEEEEZZZZZZZZ! :-) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 10, 1999 at 16:14:02 (EDT)
From: JW Email: None To: Mike Subject: What? Message: . The British forbade gun ownership by colony residents and tried to remove them all. Mike, I really think this is false. Where did you hear this? I've studied plenty of American History and I have never heard this. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 10, 1999 at 17:08:12 (EDT)
From: Mike Email: None To: JW Subject: Yup Message: JW: The British government decided that the colonies shouldn't be armed (sometime just prior to the revolutionary war). They weren't successful in disarming most of the public (duh!), but quartering soldiers in homes that had been disarmed was rampant, as I know you remember. You are right that there isn't a large amount of written material on this particular issue, but it is mentioned in letters and papers that were written by the founding fathers prior to writing in the second amendment. I'll try to find the exact documents that I'm talking about and let you know what they are so you can read it for yourself. I was very much into American History myself, while in college. I tried to collect everything I could find on our early history, as well. Interesting stuff, no doubt. The history behind the bill of rights was of particular interest to me, obviously. By the way, I would be interested in any sources you may have on the subject, too. I know you're an educator, so you might have some I know nothing about. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jun 11, 1999 at 13:01:14 (EDT)
From: JW Email: None To: Mike Subject: Nope Message: : The British government decided that the colonies shouldn't be armed (sometime just prior to the revolutionary war). Well maybe they did Mike, but that isn't the point. The point is that the British never tried to actually outlaw guns, at least as far as I have ever heard, and certainly we would be hearing about it if it actually happened. And, as you said, if they were thinking about doing it, which is an entirely different thing, it would have been impossible to enforce anyway so would be meaningless. In fact, the British didn't really interfere in the domestic issues of the colonies, they really couldn't from 3,000 miles away. All of the transgressions involved trade and taxes on trade, which the British DID control. It was the Stamp Act, the tax on tea, etc., that freaked out the colonists. So, I think you are wrong. Hope you aren't reading too much NRA propoganda, Mike. The quartering of soldiers was rampant and a major thing the colonists complained about, but that is an entirely different issue. And I can't prove a negative. If you contend the British did this, there should be proof, and I have never seen it. And Mike, you have to read the ENTIRE second amendment. It starts out something like: 'A WELL ARMED MILITIA BEING NECESSARY FOR THE DEFENSE OF THE STATE' ..... the right to bear arms shall not be infringed. The second amendment is about the individual states being able to defend themselves not the absolute right of individuals to bear arms. That's why the courts have upheld the right of the government to control guns. The right isn't absolute. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jun 11, 1999 at 13:35:24 (EDT)
From: Mike Email: None To: JW Subject: Whoa!!! Message: JW: Quote it correctly, JW, 'the right of THE PEOPLE to keep and bear.....' Everywhere else in the constitution where 'the people' are mentioned it IS an individual right. So the founding fathers had a different definition of 'the people' in this one? NOT! Whenever the 'STATES' are referred to, they are refered to as STATES, in those words. Additionally, the militia the founding fathers referred to were 'citizens,' NOT a standing army of any type (including national guards or any other organized army). Standing armies were feared most of all as the tools of despots. The founding fathers intended for the 'citizen' to have the tools to prevent this. That particular thing is directly addressed in the federalist papers and the letters of all involved. Once again, JW, I'm telling you that the VERY FIRST federal decision on this subject just happened and it came down in favor of the individual whose RIGHT was restored due to the law that removed it being unconstitutional (the law referred to it as if it were a collective right). Again, the justice department and the Clinton administration aren't fighting it because they would lose! This NRA propaganda crap is really a red herring, JW. Very inflamatory and very unbecoming. If you want to discuss something, that's fine, but don't insult my intelligence by making a statement that makes ME, PERSONALLY, sound like a lapdog. I could say the same of anyone that supports the ACLU, a hypocritical organization, if there ever was one. They support ALL of the amendments except the second....BULL! HCI LIES. Their facts come from nowhere and they quote no one that is actually charged with keeping the REAL facts (like BATF and FBI). Instead, they quote statistics from 'official sounding' sources that are private and happen to be under the full control of HCI. So I ask you, are you a lapdog of HCI and the ACLU? Are you held hostage to their propaganda? NO, I really don't believe that you are, but I don't like the connotation that I'm unable to check things out for myself, by myself. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 10, 1999 at 17:13:15 (EDT)
From: Gail Email: None To: JW & Mike Subject: To JW and Mike: Message: Did you guys live together in an ashram somewhere for one year too many? JW: It's your turn to wait on Mahatma Ji, Mike. Mike: Up yours. I did it last time. Besides, I'm sneaking out tonight to meet some sisters for coffee (but don't tell). JW: You are you in your mind? And so it goes . . . TeeHeHe, Snicker, Snicker! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 10, 1999 at 17:55:35 (EDT)
From: Mike Email: None To: Gail Subject: To Gail: Message: Gail: It sure would seem that way, wouldn't it? :-) I'm serious when I say I would love to meet JW in person. I think the conversations would be quite lively. Besides, he knows San Fran better than I do. All I know is the wharf. I promise, I'll go 'unarmed' even! :-) Hey, I really do enjoy discussing stuff with people that don't necessarily agree with me. I hear new ideas and find out why others think what they think. I think the word 'enlightening' is appropriate. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jun 11, 1999 at 13:19:22 (EDT)
From: JW Email: None To: Gail Subject: Mike and Pauline Message: Actually, I think Mike was sneaking out to rendezvous with Pauline Premie. To this day, Pauline, but not Mike, feels very guilty about abusing her ashram vows (and maybe Mike too) and that's why she is such a strident premie today. Gee Mike, thanks a lot! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jun 11, 1999 at 13:42:29 (EDT)
From: Mike Email: None To: JW Subject: JW and Pauline Message: JW: You are MOST welcome. Despite my pissed-sounding comments in my 'WHOA!' post above, I did and do mean what I said about discussing stuff with you and others here. I just think it's time that we NOT diss each other with comments about mindless propaganda and such (just a suggestion). It doesn't do anyone any good and it only clouds the issues because we piss each other off..... That's my take anyway. I really do enjoy the discussions. They're fun and they're off-topic (read that: naughty....hehehe) :-) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 17:13:04 (EDT)
From: Sgt. Barney Email: None To: Marianne Subject: I'd like to, but... Message: don't think you should have to waste your precious time on Shp. Waste it on me instead!!!! The terms of my parole don't allow me to have any contact with goirls under the age of 65. I have to view these special films in dank, dirty basements attended only by asthmatic men over the age of 65. Don't know what I did wrong, but they must know something. No, I promise I won't waste any more time working on the old shp. I've pulled the plugs to scuttle her and I working my way back up to the deck to get off this thing. She's creaking and moaning and this last hatch seems to be a bit stuck, but I think I'll be ok. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 16:18:01 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Katie Subject: Katie, here's my decision Message: Katie, Your remarks above are such that I've decided to allow you to continue posting on the forum. Congratulations. As we continue to remind people here at the Heller Foundation, freedom is a priviledge, not a right. Until next time, Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 17:01:16 (EDT)
From: Marianne Email: None To: Jim Subject: Webmaster Heller (hahaha) Message: Jim: Geez, do you think we should combine powers as the Attorneys on this site, throw our weight around, make people bow and cower (they're used to it, after all), and take over, seeing as we're the top of the food chain? Jim, when you get a little out there, you remind me of my big brothers, when they picked on me endlessly. I just ran under the big dinner table, which I could do in the early years, and they would try to follow, only to smash their heads against the tabletop. In their zeal to catch me, they would forget that they were too tall to run under the table. We all have moments, maybe even long ones, where we do both on this Forum. That people think it's your forum is laughable. They just don't get it. By the way, don't you love Curly? Yours in superiority, Attorney Marianne Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 17:37:06 (EDT)
From: Katie Email: None To: Jim Subject: Gee thanks, Jim! Message: Jim - I'd be ROTFL, except I'm afraid that some people will take your post seriously (this happens!). Oh well...it was very funny. Can't wait until you and Marianne become joint webmasters (snicker!). Love, Katie Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 20:16:16 (EDT)
From: Brian Email: katabria@apk.net To: barney Subject: last email from shp Message: I probably should have blocked SHP a long time ago when I was getting a lot of email complaints about him. His resemblance to someone else who was blocked is uncanny. Right down to his pathetic attempts at coercion by trashing the webmaster in email to other ex's who post here. Note to Sandy: I'm sorry to see that there was nothing behind your humble public apologies and vows to reform your behavior. You're a very sad little man... But, cheer up. You still have Maharaji... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 21:05:32 (EDT)
From: KB Email: None To: Brian Subject: last email from shp Message: I wouldn't 'should have' YOUR actions Brian, You were true and had a great hand on the keel. Enjoy retirement and post more! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 22:34:22 (EDT)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: KB Subject: Yeah what KB said! :) (nt) Message: fkqjef[ Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Jun 08, 1999 at 16:35:16 (EDT)
From: Anon Email: None To: Sandra Subject: Let me be Devils Advocate Message: Sandra, thanks for the reply. The point has never been perfect ideas. In my opinion, some of his ideas are brilliant and quite revolutionary, some are impractical, undoable or silly. If you spend a day with him, he's liable to throw out more ideas than the average Joe has in a year. He doesn't pretend that every idea is 'perfect.' I wasn't suggesting otherwise. My point was that it is hard for me to trust Maharaji since he changed his mind about advising people to live in ashrams rather too late to benefit me. One of his more unfortunate 'imperfect' ideas led to me having to spend the best part of my youth as a celibate monk. It's perfectly natural to have some mistrust for someone who does that to you. As far as him being intimidating, I found that the moment I decided to lose the canned responses and tell him what I really thought or felt, I was waaaay more comfortable and he encouraged me to be myself, not some idea of a 'devotee.' 99.9 per cent of premies had no opportunity whatsoever to tell Maharaji directly to his face how they felt. By the time I got to meet Maharaji I had enough integrity to not act the devotee and to pretty much 'be myself'. That was a long time after the ashrams had closed. I was reasonably comfortable with him too. I was determined not to behave sychophantically. But that is my point...maybe he is not intimidating as an individual when he is talking about mending a car or something. But when he used to come on strong like he did in the Kissimee ashram meeting,for example, that was a totally different situation. My impression was that he used intimidating language then. I know I felt it. He must have known how we would take it.. We were in total awe of him and easy prey. Let's take another look at the lineage issue and I'll tell you why it doesn't matter to me. etc.. Yes, I see that it doesn't matter to you for those few reasons. Well that's your position. For myself, I am a little more concerned. Reading all the circumstances and histories of these Gurus, I personally think that it's quite a can of worms. My judgement is that it is highly unlikely that Shri Hans or Maharaji were essentially much more special or 'Divinely ordained' than the many others. Even if Shri Hans was particularly inspired there were still many others in India resembling him. That is a clear fact. I totally agree that BalBaghwan didn't have the general appeal of his younger brother (and still doesn't apparently). Shri Hans may well have wanted his youngest to be the 'next guru'. I find the whole concept of a spiritual lineage very odd and unlikely though. I think that there are some pretty obvious circumstantial reasons why Maharaji has been as successful as he has been. As for your analogy of Maharaji being a good ruler, so why concern oneself about the social context of how he came to be there... Well, that's where you and I differ. I take a particular interest since I find the history somewhat revealing. Besides, I am not now so comfortable with the fundamental idea of there actually being some 'divine ruler', 'authority', 'Perfect Master' 'Lord' or 'special friend' or whatever you want to call it. I suspect that these sorts of figures arise in society for more down to earth, and complex reasons. These reasons are gradually becoming clearer to me as I learn of the history of the gurus in India and, more about human nature. It appears almost as if the Master-Devotee relationship is a mutually agreed blissful delusion which excludes and to some extent, necessarily demonizes reality, and which, although mutual comforting, is actually just as much a dream as anything else. All the Gurus respectively claim to be particularly special and their followers all clearly are convinced of this too. They can't all be right. Even considering the fact that knowledge feels nice, it too, is still very unlikely to be as special, unique or precious a thing as it is sold as. The experience of knowledge itself doesn't speak aloud to you - 'You need Maharaji to feel like this' it is silent. We say that, largely because Maharaji says that and he was the guy that showed us how to meditate. Just because he does the job of inspiring us to carry on meditating doesn't mean that he is the only one that can. It would seem that he is intent on monopolising that role and that he has succesfully convinced many that that is the happy way things are, and should be. As if it were set in stone that only he can do the job. The fact that there are a lot of 'cultic devices' in evidence, such as secrecy about the techniques (which impresses aspirants that this is truly special etc. and beholds them to keep the secret as if it were some sort of spell that can be broken) and the many examples that are given , when listening to his discourses, as to how important the Master is and how grateful, open, 'ready' one should be etc, also suggests that the experience depends very directly on a number of social and psychological factors. The very conditions which are provided by lengthy aspirant programs where you are basically encouraged to be receptive to a spiritual diet restricted to Maharaji and more Maharaji. It is fundamentally a process of 'giving in' or as it was formerly said 'surrender'. 'This is where it's at, learn to like it, if you don't fine - get lost and let us do our thing-look all these people agree! They're happy!' This might seem innocent enough fun, but the price can be high, since there is introduced to you, the notion that your very own mind can betray you, that there is a duality within you so powerful that you need to be saved from it by the benevolence of none other than the Master himself, whose power is such that he can protect you from the enemy within. This is where fear becomes a factor and people basically lose faith that they alone can safely navigate themselves through life without the help of their Master. This is surely where dependancy becomes unhealthy. This also explains why premies are loath to question their faith. The 'love' that appears to fill the void where once was your 'mind' (a living conscience constantly aspiring towards Knowing, never stagnant) could it not be more or less be said to be mixed with 'a smug, fearful sense of inadequacy, born of a desperate dependancy.' Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 03:00:35 (EDT)
From: Sandra Email: None To: Anon Subject: Let me be Devils Advocate Message: Hi Anon, However disappointing your immediate capitulation to Jim may have been below, you had at least a moment of civility so I'll try to respond to you. Once again, back to the lineage stuff. I never met Shri Maharaji, I don't know. I never considered who appointed who very important and I still don't. It would be just the same for me in a business arrangement. If the boss's son took over, and I neither liked or respected him, I wouldn't care who his father was, I wouldn't want to work for him. That's as clear as I can make it. You wrote, 'All the Gurus respectively claim to be particularly special and their followers all clearly are convinced of this too. They can't all be right.' They're not. All gurus aren't created equal, just as all restaurants, therapists or singers aren't created equal. They're all different and have wildly different merits or lack of merits. This is up to each person to determine. Being a 'guru' means absolutely nothing. Being in a 'correct lineage,' in my view, also means absolutely nothing. That never turned me on, in other words. You wrote, 'The fact that there are a lot of 'cultic devices' in evidence, such as secrecy about the techniques' Like it or not, the techniques have always been secret, regardless of 'lines of succession' and tradition. You can check that out in the Bhagavad Gita, The ancient Egyptians, The Guru Granth Sahib and The Aquarian Gospel to name 4 to start. The reason has always been the same. People should understand the preciousness of the inner realm and give it a real chance, not just treat it like an episode of Seinfeld. I know a few people who 'gave knowledge' to their boyfriends or spouses. Not one of the recipients ever had the vaguest idea of what they'd just been given or the richness that was available to them. It had been grossly cheapened. I think there's a real point in being taught by a 'Master' of ANY subject. You wrote, 'since there is introduced to you, the notion that your very own mind can betray you, that there is a duality within you.' Your own mind can, and often does, betray you. I can give you countless examples of this on request. There is, indeed, a profound duality within you and it's quite valuable to know that, so that you can know the difference and proceed wisely. If you learn nothing else from Maharaji, you should pick up on this. This teaching is not meant to install fear, it's meant to help you discern between what's real and what's just a warped mental side-trip. Lastly, you wrote, 'The 'love' that appears to fill the void where once was your 'mind' (a living conscience constantly aspiring towards Knowing, never stagnant) could it not be more or less be said to be mixed with 'a smug, fearful sense of inadequacy, born of a desperate dependancy.' My mind hasn't gone anywhere. I just try to use it, as opposed to IT using me. And if you don't think your mind is capable of taking you on a express trip to hell, you haven't been paying much attention. That can happen over virtually ANY subject...career, love life, financial situation...you can plummet endlessly into a mental feedback loop that can literally kill you. I don't think anyone should be ruled by fear...fear of a Guru, fear of their mind, fear of sex, fear of intimacy, fear of success, fear of failure. All of those are dead end roads. For what it's worth, I don't feel smug, inadequate, desperate or particularly fearful. If a friend of mine's relationship to Maharaji felt to be ruled by fear, wishful thinking, desperation or projection, I'd say, 'get the hell out of there!' at least until you got to some kind of straight-ahead place about it. Nitey-nite, Sandra Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 05:15:58 (EDT)
From: Anon Email: None To: Sandra Subject: thanks Message: However disappointing your immediate capitulation to Jim.....// Anon seemingly folded like a hot towel the minute Jim came in to CORRECT his thinking What exactly gave you the impression I made some capitulation to Jim? I confess I was confused about the suggestions that you had some history of disruption here and were not worth talking to, since the posts I read from you seemed reasonable enough. Although much of what Jim says I agree with and appreciate as witty and incisive, I do not aspire to emulate his thinking or aggressive style and don't feel corrected by his comments. Anyway your post is a nice reply, but unfortunately I don't have time this morning to give you a worthy response, so I'll do so later tonight I expect. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 10:56:46 (EDT)
From: Powerman Email: None To: Anon Subject: People Like Sandra Message: I know Sandra doesn't want to talk to me--I don't blame her. I'm sure she rolls up her car window when she drives through a ghetto. All those grimey people and foul language. No, people like Sandra are civilized. Their desks are neat and their thoughts are organized. Not all people like Sandra are into Fatboy. Some don't even have a guru. But you can be sure there's a Sandra in every office, on every job site, and in every classroom. Hair tied in a neat little bun, Sandra studies hard, or takes her work home in a briefcase, or kisses the bosses ass. She's most certainly on some 'committee' or other, somewhere. Sandra's a 'committee person'. Don't you just hate them? I can promise you this: Sandra's white athletic shoes have no blemishes. You probably saw Sandra when you were a premie. She was standing at one of those tables when you go to a program. She was wearing a proper dress... not too colorful, not too revealing, not too anything. Just like Sandra... not too anything. Because that's what the guru is for Sandra; a place to hide. A place Sandra can safely be 'not too anything'. A safe, cozy place where everything's mapped out. The rules are pre-arranged, the basics have already been laid out. All you have to do is fit in. No messes. That's really important because messes make Sandra uncomfortable. Who knows how it expands into joining a cult and becoming an android. Maybe Sandra took a poo-poo on the living room floor when she was two, and mama had a temper, and Sandra got a wallop. Maybe Sandra was just born that way. When there's nothing to do, she removes her clothes from her dresser, and re-folds them. Just for something to do. After all, an idle mind is the devil's workshop. No, Sandra isn't like she is because of the guru. If it was a different century, she would have joined the Women's Temperance League or Daughters of the American Revolution. Quick to make the 'tsk, tsk' sound, and quick to dismiss unruliness. Yes, Sandra's really just trying to get by, like most people. But most people have no idea that Sandra is just barely squeezing by... that it isn't easy to have a shit in the morning when you have a big stick impaled three feet up your ass. Let's all say a prayer for Sandra. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 16:59:46 (EDT)
From: Gerry Email: None To: Powerman Subject: People Like Sandra Message: Thanks for that, Powerman. That was (sniff, sniff) BEAUTIFUL, guy. I printed it out and put it on my refrigerator. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 17:22:57 (EDT)
From: Powerman Email: None To: Gerry Subject: Happy to oblige, Gerry (nt) Message: nt Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jun 11, 1999 at 01:27:54 (EDT)
From: Selene Email: None To: Powerman Subject: People Like Sandra Message: Oh come on powerman so she can't shit. neither can I I have to take laxatives at least 3 times a month. so fucking what? what Is your point? Of course I undedrstand your critique of her devotion to a meaningless cause. But Sandras exist all over in and outside M's cult well, if you have a solution to that please stop by my office. cause I share one with a non premie sandra. and she fits the bill too They are all over. and they don't have to be premies. but M certainly attracts and encourages that mold so I do see your point. Maybe you are saying Sandra is being a 'good german'? just trying to get it.... selene Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jun 11, 1999 at 03:17:55 (EDT)
From: Sandra Email: None To: Selene Subject: People Like Sandra Message: Hi Selene, Just thought I'd tell you that I've been roaring with laughter with 2 friends, almost to the point of pain after reading Powerman's assessment of what I must be like. I had been skipping his (and a few others') messages because he had been so full of toxic waste in previous little love-notes he'd posted after I'd replied to questions others had asked me. But after I saw your post I just had to read what prompted it and goddamn, am I glad I did! We just had the best laugh in weeks. Not that it isn't interesting to be discussed like a lab rat by people that don't know you...that's the glory of the net. Let's just say that the bun-haired, spinstery student/librarian image is just about 180 degrees from the truth. I wish I folded my clothes...I've never been on a committee or wanted to be and I generally can't stand the idea of being in a group. If I kissed the boss' ass, I'd be in Cirque de Soleil 'cause I'm my own boss. My life has been and is wild and quite 'unruly' and I like it that way. Maybe Powerman would like to come and clean my desk. Now I suggest you go read all of his articulate, expressive posts and paint a portrait for yourself of what he must be like. Surely a great catch for some lucky woman. Yes, Maharaji's a safe place all right...all neat and orderly for the sexless, little woman with her hair pulled back in a bow, wearing a burlap sack and going tsk, tsk....I love it!!!! Thanks for the entertainment, boys. Danke schein from der gut little German, Sandra By the way Selene, any molds you'd like to put me in? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jun 11, 1999 at 10:07:55 (EDT)
From: Helen Email: None To: Sandra Subject: People Like Sandra Message: Sandra I have to tell ya I thought Powerman's description of you was uncalled for and mean. I'm glad you didn't let it get you down, girl! Helen Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jun 11, 1999 at 11:35:43 (EDT)
From: *MISTRESS* Selene Email: None To: Sandra Subject: People Like Sandra Message: well, Sandra I can't think of any mold for this early in the a.m. But I do have to say, your self description and that of M prompt me to ponder: things must have gotten very spiced up since last I attended Long Beach in 1997. That was one BIG yawn/ I hated it!!! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jun 11, 1999 at 14:41:55 (EDT)
From: Katie Email: mishkat@gateway.net To: Sandra Subject: People Like Sandra Message: Hi Sandra - I'm glad you have a good sense of humor and could get a laugh out of 'Powerman''s message, because I thought it was mean - basically on a par with the 'personality analysis' of Jim by Bruce in a thread above, although from what I can read, Powerman made even more assumptions about you with less information. While I don't, obviously, agree with your feelings about Maharaji, I really despise the characterization of assertive and articulate women as 'uptight bitches'. (Been there!) Take care, Katie Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jun 11, 1999 at 14:58:41 (EDT)
From: Powerman Email: None To: Katie Subject: People Like Sandra Message: I wasn't insulting Sandra as a woman, but as a human being. Perhaps you didn't notice how insidious she was; how she attempted to diminish the crimes Maharaji has committed, and how dishonestly she characterized the cult and it's surroundings. There's more than one way to skin a cat, you Goddess, you. Now go get us some cookies and milk, and stop your fussing. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jun 11, 1999 at 15:10:18 (EDT)
From: Katie Email: None To: Powerman Subject: People Like Sandra Message: Hi Powerman - I'm disregarding the 'cookies and milk' comment (sheesh!) Guess you've been hanging around HERE for a while... As I said to Sandra, I don't agree with her about Maharaji, but I did think your post was sexist (and I, myself, have been characterized on the forum in a similar way, i.e. 'sickeningly maternal and politically correct', plus other statement.) What I objected to in your characterization of Sandra was the plethora of 'uptight female' (librarian, bun, spinster) images that you used. What you wrote was NOT gender-neutral, and that's what I didn't like. Also, I do think my comparison of your attack on Sandra to Bruce's attack on Jim was correct. Like I said to Bruce, if you don't like the person's ideas, fine, but attack the ideas NOT the person. This, of course, is my opinion, and is obviously not shared by many people who post here. And btw, you can git yer own cookies and milk, you dog! Take care, Katie Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jun 11, 1999 at 15:24:48 (EDT)
From: Powerman Email: None To: Katie Subject: People Like Sandra Message: I insist the stereotype you object to, isn't without merit. It did not suggest that women are in any way inferior to men. The characterization did, however, point out the foibles inherent in trying to maintain the sort of delusions that Sandra holds. It was, in the very least, an attempt to let the air out of the notion that the guru is in some way cool, easygoing or fashionable. I'm disappointed you wouldn't get me some cookies and milk. I'd get them for you if you asked. Oh well. Maybe some day I can help you carry your packages. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jun 11, 1999 at 17:29:31 (EDT)
From: Katie Email: mishkat@gateway.net To: Powerman Subject: People Like Sandra Message: Hi Powerman - Sorry to interrupt our little chat, but I had to go out for a while. Also, sorry about the cookies and milk, but I got teased about that so much on the forum that I decided to stop doing it :). I agree that your statements about Sandra didn't express any feeling that women were inferior to men, but I still think they were stereotypical (and you had three women, including me, get on your case about your post, so maybe some other women thought so too.) I'm particularly sensitive to stereotyping of females because I worked for years in a male-dominated field. I understand that you were attempting to describe a kind of PERSON, but your use of female images to do this (there are plenty of men like that, too) irked me. Plus I think that you could have made your point better without the scatalogical imagery, but you're certainly not the ONLY person on the forum that gets scatalogical. Anyway, you can carry my packages for me any time. As long as I get to hold the door open for you (snicker). Take care, Katie Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 11:16:46 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Sandra Subject: You can't be serious Message: You are so much fun to read, Sandra. So now you're comparing testing a guru to testing a restaurant. I read this a few minutes ago and only now have stopped laughing enough to type something. Can you imagine a restaurant that made you study its menu 'nonjudgementally' for five months before you could eat there? A restaurant where every corner had a video running talking about how much Appreciation, Gratitude and Understanding one should have for the chef? A restaurant where food critics who dissed it were no longer welcome? And on and on and on... Yes, you're an idiot alright. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 15:12:25 (EDT)
From: Gail Email: None To: Sandra Subject: Let me be Devils Advocate Message: If a friend of mine's relationship to Maharaji felt to be ruled by fear, wishful thinking, desperation or projection, I'd say, 'get the hell out of there!' at least until you got to some kind of straight-ahead place about it. That response is amazing, Sandra. I am glad you could say that to a friend. Somewhere along the way, it became a guilt-ridden command performance for me. Even now, I am very angry because I feel I have been betrayed and because I was so stupid. Can I ask you one question. How do you explain all the people from the top who have left Maharaji? Bill Patterson, Gary Ockendon (sp), Jean-Michel, etc., etc. These folks had a chance to be really close to him. If it is true, why can everything which took 25 years to build come apart in two days (for me). Believe me, Sandra, I have been sincere and I have tried. Was I perfect at it everyday? NO. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 10, 1999 at 09:03:04 (EDT)
From: Jerry Email: None To: Sandra Subject: Let me be Devils Advocate Message: Once again, back to the lineage stuff. I never met Shri Maharaji, I don't know. I never considered who appointed who very important and I still don't. Well, you should, Sandra, because its very, very, important to Maharaji. And what's important to him should be important to you. Wouldn't you agree? I know a few people who 'gave knowledge' to their boyfriends or spouses. Not one of the recipients ever had the vaguest idea of what they'd just been given or the richness that was available to them. You mean nobody told them? Hint, hint... Think about it. It's got to be rammed into your head over, and over, and over, what a precious gift K is. Otherwise its just four non-extraordinary meditation techniques. Get it? You have to be TOLD by the MASTER just what a precious gift you're receiving. Otherwise, you'd never know. Do you understand what I'm driving at? If not, let me spell it out for you. You have to be brainwashed. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 10, 1999 at 15:25:00 (EDT)
From: Helen Email: None To: Jerry Subject: Whispers and Lies Message: That is so true, Jerry. You have to be duly 'prepared' to have that 'understanding' so you can have 'that feeling' . Reading about that weird initiator that Curley has been speaking of, who disdains all other paths a person might like to explore, reminds me of just how intense and rigid the brainwashing is. People were very intense about it,it was very fundamentalist. People poo poohed any religious or spiritual thing that wasn't maharaji, would whisper and gossip about the 'spaced out' premies in my community in Grand Rapids. Said spaced out premies were a real sweet loving couple, kind open-hearted people, who didn't come to satsang. It was all so rigid. Yuk. Seemed to me the more spaced out a premie got, the more loving he or she got, because their brain got out of the vice-grip of Maharaji-merge-mania. I guess now it's packaged differently but there's still alot of rigidity it seems to me. See ya Helen Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Jun 08, 1999 at 16:16:19 (EDT)
From: barney Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Curly, some questions Message: Curly, Welcome to the Forum! I know that you mentioned that you are a recently spurned aspirant. Without revealing too many details that might identify yourself, could you give us a complete history of your experience? And, I noticed that you said you were recently in Miami to see Maharaji. Questions I have are (again dance around them to hide yourself): When did you get involved? How did you get involved? How many other aspirants were there in the community? How many aspirants were at the Belkis worthiness screening? How many aspirants did Belkis bless? Where was the Belkis screening? How would you describe the aspirant process? Did the premies in your community socalize? Were they friendly, secretive, aloof? How long was your aspirant process? How many videos did you see? What did you think about the videos in each stage of the aspirant progression as it goes from watered down walking on the beach scenes to hardcore full-blown Maharaji? What do you think about Maharaji's webpages? What do you think about the Ex-Premie.Org webpages? Gosh, that should keep you busy if you so desire. As for me, I got out a few years ago after nearly 25 years. I'm somewhat aware of the aspirant process. I think that the most horrifying period of being an aspirant was the late '80s or early '90s when virtually no one received Knowledge and people would have to ask Maharaji directly at these special little programs. There were some videos, but I don't think that they are shown anymore for obvious reasons. They were horrible to watch even as a believing premie. Horrible to watch people grovel and beg in public while holding a microphone and speaking directly to Maharaji. I mean, come on, no matter how many videos you've watched right up to the final moment you still gotta be wondering about what Knowledge and the whole thing is about. Now, for myself I had done other meditations before Knowledge and you, too, can experience going inside by doing many or any meditation technique. Don't feel that you missed anything that you cannot experience without Maharaji. My Knowledge session was a real let down. Again, because I had experienced going inside I was disappointed by my first experience of Knowledge. Perhaps, it was too hyped and I was expecting much more than just going inside. Actually, I complained that I did not see very much light and the Mahatma came back to me and pressed really hard on my eyeballs. Well, that ain't light, that's excessive pressure on your nerves causing them to fire. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Jun 08, 1999 at 16:24:18 (EDT)
From: Curly Email: None To: barney Subject: Ok ok I'll answer in due cours Message: Ok Barney, you're on. Catch you later. Curly Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Jun 08, 1999 at 21:24:27 (EDT)
From: Curly Email: None To: barney Subject: Barney, some answers Message: How I got involved? Well, a few years ago somebody very close to me died in a horrible way, which depressed me for about two years. For the first time in my life, I tried to find god (I have always been an atheist), but of course, I didn't know how. I tried religion for a while but I wasn't convinced. Time went by and I started to get out of my depression, date again, found a girl with whom I fell in love with and got a job which was profitable as well as satisfying. One day, while having a meeting with my boss I noticed a picture of a guy in full indian garb right next to the ones of his wife and children. I asked who he was, he tols me it was M and that he was a great master, etc. and that he could lend me a video, which he did. Afeter that he started inviting me to video events. I would go to them sometimes. Like I said before I really hate new age music bieng an amateur classical musician myself. Also, the way the videos were shot reminded me too much of a film I had seen in college in a class about fascism called 'Triumph of the Will' by Leni Riefenstahl (I think that's the correct spelling). You know: Leader-Masses, Leader-Masses and so on. When I mentioned this to my boss (I actually found the film for him to watch) He said: Please! How can you compare someone like M who gives so much and makes so many people happy, to Hitler nonetheless! I said I was comparing their personalities, only the way they communicate. Anyway, I forgot about M and enjoyed life for a while. Things turned a little sour with my girl (we were going to marry and called it off). Looking back, I think my boss (we were friendly and still are) gave me a tape in which M said something like: 'Happyness that come from the outside will bite you. You can only rely on happyness from within.' That sort of made sense to me. I wanted knowledge even though I hadn't fallen in love with M. So I started going to video events. How many people were there? I don't know exactly. Perhaps thirty or forty. I never hung around to chat. The premies were aloof in a happy smiley sort of way. I did have questions but I was told by organizers that only the master answers the questions. Oh well. After some six or seven months (when I didn't want to go, my boss would drag me along and then buy me dinner) I can't say I wasn't seduced by the M persona, but I just thought he was a jolly nice guy. Still, funny you should mention these scenes of him walking around with seagulls or ponies or whatever. I thought they where just too silly, but of course Igmar Bergman doesn't work for Visions, does he? I just thought it was kitchy. How many aspirants in the community? I really don't know. How would I describe the aspirant process? Well from today's perspective I would describe it as gentle, subtle, brainwashing. I mean, I could laugh at the kitchy presentations and so on, but I wanted knowledge. It's a very seductive trinket. Anyhooha, finally M was having an event in Miami (1998)so me and my boss decided to go. We booked our seats, flights, rooms and a rental car went on our merry way. I think it was a friday morning. I went the convention center hall signed in, sat in a room with about sixty people or so. Watched videos and got a bit sick of them. Got a lecture on 'gratitude' by Belkin whom I did not like from the start. The group became smaller and smaller untill finally came the moment in which one would ask for knowledge. I guess I didn't want to grovel. When Beelkin asked what would I do for M after giving me this gift I answered: 'Well, I could take him to lunch to a nice restaurant. That would be fun.' What can I say. I was sincere. Kind of hang out and chat, you know? I thought it was a nice thing to say. Anyway, as you know I didn't get knowledge (only about half the group did). What pissed me off though was the holier than thou attitude of Belkin and how some people were truly destroyed by the rejection. 'Fuck it' I thought to myself. And that was pretty much it. I reminded myself of a poem by Niesztche: 'I hate to follow, I hate to lead, Obey? Oh no, and govern? no indeed. Only those who dread themselves inspire dread, And only those inspiring dread can lead. Even to lead myself is not my speed. I like to lose myself for a good while, Like the animals in forests and the sea. To sit and think on some abandoned isle. Then lure myself back home again. Seducing myself to come back to me. From 'The Gay Science' That pretty close I think. It's been a while. My boss keeps acosting me to go to videos. I say no thanks. Whatever. Actually the last event in Miami we went there on bussines and it just happened to be there. We met with some premie friends of his at the event. Everybody had a great time and laughed at the jokes except me. I didn't find it funny. Then out of curiosity I got into the net, checked Altavista and the posting 'The truth about Maharaji' caught my eye. It was iluminating because I didn't know any of the history behind the cult. It was refreshing to see him being called the Lard. It was fun to see him with tits. I started reading the forum. I couldn't contain from sticking my spoon in the pie and make a silly comment now and then. So, that's that. I hope this answers your questions Barney. If you have anymore, I'll be happy to answer some more. Cheerio. Curly Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 01:38:25 (EDT)
From: Memphis Belle Email: None To: Curly Subject: I too am relatively new Message: I have been posting here for about a year. And I kind of went thru the same things you did. A friend thru work told me about Maharaji, and I had just recently had a bad break up in a relationship. I went to videos for 6 months. The first videos are real sweet and all happy. Then the 'preparing to receive Knowledge' videos have a different tone where the word 'master' is used frequently. This freaked me out - but I really wanted to know what Knowledge was. When I was asking Belkis for K, I knew I had to say the right thing, so when she asked what I would like to say to M, I said to tell him that I was glad his father gave him the gift of K so that he could give it to us. I was pretty sure this would get me 'in', and it worked. But now I wish I had been turned down and that was only thing to be mad about. But now I have left the cult and in a phase of guilt and ignorance. Maharaji would repeatedly say that there is knowing and there is ignoranc. So you see I have been brainwashed into thinking I am ingnorant because I choose not to keep in touch with the master and I haven't given Knowledge a chance. But I keep asking God to be with me even though I am not with Maharji, and I feel good about that. But, it is amazing how much brainwashing goes on at those events. I am glad you did not receive Knowledge. What you are looking for is already in you and you don't need Maharaji to tell you how beautiful life is. And that's all he will do for the next 25 years - he'll say how beautiful life is and that life is a gift, over and over and over. That's it. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 04:24:25 (EDT)
From: cp Email: None To: Curly and Belle Subject: thanks Message: curly- Thank you for taking the time to write out those answeres. It is good for me to the review how it is for aspirants now. Belle- It brings home in a personal way what Marjorie is doing today. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 10:38:06 (EDT)
From: Helen Email: None To: Curly Subject: Barney, some answers Message: Great post, curley! That's weird that your boss sort of pressures you to go to videos. Is that a bit uncomfortable for you? I once had a boss who told me I would go to hell because I'm not a Christian! :-0 That was pretty scary when I told her how offended I was. She apologized and backed off and we always had a great relationship. She told me that she was worried I'd go to hell because she cared about me, but it went over the line as far as I was concerned! FOrtunately I am used to be being told I will go to hell because I was raised Unitarian, so it wasn't that big a deal. ANyway, hope you are ok, and hope you will post more in the future. I was an aspirant for two yrs back in the crazy 70's--oy vey! It was like torture. I am glad to be out of that goofy guru thing. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 11:26:21 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Curly Subject: Thanks Curly Message: I'm late for work but I jsut wanted to say hi, nice to hear from ya' and all that. By the way, who's Belkas? I know I've heard that name before... some old instructor, I take it? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 11:42:52 (EDT)
From: Marianne Email: None To: Jim Subject: Thanks Curly Message: Hi today, Curly! How are you? The questions that Barney asked weren't an attempt to identify you in some way. Your answers might help someone else who is an aspirant to decide not to seek Knowledge. Your answers help us to understand you and to understand a present day aspirant's thoughts. The cult has changed a lot over the years. Maharj Ji's pitch has changed over the years in order to achieve maximum profits. BTW, what, if anything, did you know about Maharaji's financial status when you started attending satsang? Did you learn anything about his finances while you were seeking Knoiledge? Your comments are really helpful, Curly. Marianne Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 13:30:20 (EDT)
From: Curly Email: None To: Marianne Subject: My pleasure Message: No I didn't know about Maharaji's finances at all. This is the first contact that I've had with this kind of information as well as ex premies. The intructor's name was Belkin. I don't know anything about her except what she said during the selection process, that she's been with M for a very long time. She seemed very fanatical and disregarded other people's search which did not include M. These people were inmediately rejected. If anyone knows her, let us know the goods about her. I'm sure it will be of interest to all. Like I said before, if anyone has any more questions, I'll be glad to answer them if I can. Cheers to all. Curly Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 19:33:24 (EDT)
From: gerry Email: None To: Roger Drek Subject: Rog, **best of ?** nt Message: nt Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 10, 1999 at 02:12:58 (EDT)
From: Roger E. Drek Email: None To: gerry Subject: soon to be ***best*** Message: kjl Return to Index -:- Top of Index |