Ex-Premie.Org |
Forum III Archive # 6 | |
From: May 2, 1998 |
To: May 11, 1998 |
Page: 2 Of: 5 |
Keith -:- Hey Jim -:- Thurs, May 07, 1998 at 00:08:10 (EST) __Jim -:- Hey Keith -:- Thurs, May 07, 1998 at 00:14:58 (EST) ____Keith -:- Cool Jim -:- Thurs, May 07, 1998 at 01:03:09 (EST) ______eb -:- Obsessive Thinking -:- Thurs, May 07, 1998 at 11:56:48 (EST) ________JW -:- Obsessive Thinking -:- Thurs, May 07, 1998 at 12:46:11 (EST) ________Gerry -:- Obsessive Thinking -:- Thurs, May 07, 1998 at 12:50:22 (EST) __________Jude -:- Obsessive Thinking -:- Thurs, May 07, 1998 at 13:08:14 (EST) ____________Jude -:- what kind of fool am I -:- Thurs, May 07, 1998 at 13:12:56 (EST) ____________Katie -:- To Jude -:- Thurs, May 07, 1998 at 18:39:10 (EST) ________Robyn -:- Obsessive Thinking -:- Thurs, May 07, 1998 at 12:59:15 (EST) __________Jude -:- Obsessive Thinking -:- Thurs, May 07, 1998 at 13:28:28 (EST) ____________Robyn -:- Obsessive Thinking -:- Thurs, May 07, 1998 at 13:42:03 (EST) ____________Gerry -:- Red badge of courage -:- Thurs, May 07, 1998 at 13:44:01 (EST) ______________Jude -:- What fun! -:- Thurs, May 07, 1998 at 13:53:27 (EST) ______________Robyn -:- Red badge of courage -:- Thurs, May 07, 1998 at 15:13:13 (EST) ________________Gerry -:- Red badge of courage -:- Thurs, May 07, 1998 at 15:40:16 (EST) __________________Robyn -:- italics -:- Thurs, May 07, 1998 at 17:36:03 (EST) ____________________Gerry -:- italics -:- Thurs, May 07, 1998 at 17:42:11 (EST) ____________________JW -:- italics -:- Thurs, May 07, 1998 at 19:49:15 (EST) ____________________JW -:- italics -:- Thurs, May 07, 1998 at 19:53:51 (EST) ____________________VP -:- italics -:- Thurs, May 07, 1998 at 23:41:14 (EST) ______________________Katie -:- HTML -:- Fri, May 08, 1998 at 00:09:01 (EST) ________________________VP -:- HTML -:- Fri, May 08, 1998 at 00:39:39 (EST) __________________________Carol -:- HTML -:- Fri, May 08, 1998 at 13:50:09 (EST) __________________________Robyn -:- HTML -:- Fri, May 08, 1998 at 18:08:49 (EST) ______________________Robyn -:- italics -:- Fri, May 08, 1998 at 18:06:39 (EST) ____________Still Crazy -:- Obsessive Thinking -:- Thurs, May 07, 1998 at 13:46:37 (EST) ______________eb -:- Obsessive Thinking -:- Thurs, May 07, 1998 at 14:21:32 (EST) ________________John -:- Seeking advice -:- Thurs, May 07, 1998 at 14:42:52 (EST) __________________I'm not Dr. Laura -:- And I don't give advice... -:- Thurs, May 07, 1998 at 15:34:11 (EST) ____________________John -:- And I don't give advice... -:- Thurs, May 07, 1998 at 17:31:53 (EST) ______________________eb -:- John, you are soooo right! -:- Thurs, May 07, 1998 at 18:12:46 (EST) ________________________JW -:- To the Ex-Parents -:- Thurs, May 07, 1998 at 19:24:52 (EST) __________________________Robyn -:- To the Ex-Parents -:- Fri, May 08, 1998 at 18:15:42 (EST) ____________________________eb -:- To the Ex-Parents -:- Fri, May 08, 1998 at 19:07:28 (EST) ______________________________Carol -:- To the Ex-Parents -:- Sat, May 09, 1998 at 14:12:58 (EST) ______________________________Scott T. -:- Let's get this straight! -:- Sun, May 10, 1998 at 12:37:52 (EST) ________________________________Jude -:- Let's get this straight! -:- Sun, May 10, 1998 at 13:16:16 (EST) ________________________________Carol -:- Let's get this straight! -:- Sun, May 10, 1998 at 13:31:58 (EST) __________________________________Scott T. -:- Etta, and the pcture gallery -:- Sun, May 10, 1998 at 17:01:21 (EST) ________________________________Jim -:- Protein Power! -:- Sun, May 10, 1998 at 19:42:18 (EST) __________________________________Jude -:- Protein Power! -:- Mon, May 11, 1998 at 05:19:50 (EST) ________________________________eb -:- As Gorgeous as Scott T. -:- Mon, May 11, 1998 at 11:33:01 (EST) __________________________________Katie -:- As Gorgeous as Scott T. -:- Mon, May 11, 1998 at 14:33:17 (EST) ______________________Scott T. -:- The 'time of ashes' -:- Thurs, May 07, 1998 at 21:35:04 (EST) ________________VP -:- Obsessive Thinking -:- Thurs, May 07, 1998 at 14:47:55 (EST) __________________eb -:- Obsessive Thinking -:- Thurs, May 07, 1998 at 15:53:39 (EST) ____________________Scott T. -:- ADD and the Revolution -:- Thurs, May 07, 1998 at 21:46:21 (EST) ______________________Jim -:- Canadian ADD, eh? -:- Fri, May 08, 1998 at 08:01:22 (EST) ________________Robyn -:- Obsessive Thinking -:- Thurs, May 07, 1998 at 15:19:57 (EST) __________________eb -:- Obsessive Thinking -:- Thurs, May 07, 1998 at 15:55:50 (EST) ____________________Robyn -:- Enjoy! -:- Thurs, May 07, 1998 at 18:04:12 (EST) ________Carol -:- Obsessive Thinking -:- Thurs, May 07, 1998 at 16:12:24 (EST) __________Carol -:- Obsessive Thinking -:- Thurs, May 07, 1998 at 16:27:32 (EST) ____________eb -:- Obsessive Thinking -:- Thurs, May 07, 1998 at 16:50:51 (EST) ____________John -:- Belated thanks -:- Fri, May 08, 1998 at 00:08:16 (EST) __________Katie -:- To Carol -:- Thurs, May 07, 1998 at 18:35:25 (EST) ____________Carol -:- To Carol -:- Fri, May 08, 1998 at 01:21:47 (EST) ________Katie -:- Obsessive Thinking and ADD -:- Thurs, May 07, 1998 at 16:21:41 (EST) __________VP -:- Obsessive Thinking and ADD -:- Thurs, May 07, 1998 at 23:27:21 (EST) ____________Katie -:- Obsessive Thinking and ADD -:- Thurs, May 07, 1998 at 23:38:57 (EST) ________x -:- Obsessive Thinking -:- Thurs, May 07, 1998 at 17:33:20 (EST) __________eb -:- Thanks -:- Fri, May 08, 1998 at 16:57:34 (EST) ______C -:- Not a master -:- Thurs, May 07, 1998 at 13:12:31 (EST) Jude -:- dysfunctional -:- Wed, May 06, 1998 at 22:40:11 (EST) __Robyn -:- dysfunctional -:- Thurs, May 07, 1998 at 10:28:33 (EST) jean-michel -:- Paula, please READ THIS -:- Wed, May 06, 1998 at 12:27:46 (EST) __CD -:- La Tierra and rumours -:- Wed, May 06, 1998 at 15:41:30 (EST) ____JM -:- La Tierra del rumors -:- Wed, May 06, 1998 at 16:11:33 (EST) ______Bruce -:- To Jean Marc -:- Fri, May 08, 1998 at 08:38:16 (EST) ________B -:- To Jean-Michel -:- Fri, May 08, 1998 at 08:49:51 (EST) ________Jim -:- Bruce, will this help? -:- Fri, May 08, 1998 at 09:01:45 (EST) __________Bruce -:- No, it doesn't help -:- Fri, May 08, 1998 at 10:05:05 (EST) ____________Jim -:- Warmth -:- Fri, May 08, 1998 at 10:16:18 (EST) ____________JW -:- No, it doesn't help -:- Sat, May 09, 1998 at 11:46:11 (EST) ______________Carol -:- No, it doesn't help -:- Sat, May 09, 1998 at 14:23:30 (EST) ________________Scott T. -:- Just 'another religion?' -:- Sat, May 09, 1998 at 14:56:52 (EST) __________________JW -:- Just 'another religion?' -:- Sat, May 09, 1998 at 16:13:26 (EST) ____________________Scott T. -:- Sant Mat as religion -:- Sat, May 09, 1998 at 20:59:41 (EST) ______________________Jude -:- Sant Mat -:- Sun, May 10, 1998 at 04:09:26 (EST) ________________________Scott T. -:- Sant Mat -:- Sun, May 10, 1998 at 09:34:31 (EST) __________________________Jude -:- Sant Mat -:- Sun, May 10, 1998 at 10:16:07 (EST) ____________________________Katie -:- your questions and posts -:- Sun, May 10, 1998 at 11:00:32 (EST) ____________________________Scott T. -:- A good 'one-liner' -:- Sun, May 10, 1998 at 11:46:37 (EST) __________________________Jude -:- Sant Mat -:- Sun, May 10, 1998 at 10:33:45 (EST) ______________Bruce -:- No, it doesn't help -:- Sun, May 10, 1998 at 01:59:26 (EST) Grab bag from.... -:- The Book of Con (Nadeen) -:- Wed, May 06, 1998 at 12:06:35 (EST) __K -:- The Book of K . -:- Thurs, May 07, 1998 at 01:19:50 (EST) ____Robyn -:- The Book of K . -:- Thurs, May 07, 1998 at 10:35:10 (EST) ____JW -:- The Book of Madonna -:- Thurs, May 07, 1998 at 14:34:08 (EST) ____John -:- The book of baloney -:- Thurs, May 07, 1998 at 15:26:53 (EST) ______Gerry -:- The book of baloney -:- Thurs, May 07, 1998 at 17:55:43 (EST) Jude -:- Breaking Free -:- Wed, May 06, 1998 at 11:21:37 (EST) Jude -:- Excerpts Query -:- Wed, May 06, 1998 at 09:35:58 (EST) __CD -:- K still the same -:- Wed, May 06, 1998 at 15:32:26 (EST) ____Gerry -:- K still the same -:- Wed, May 06, 1998 at 16:05:25 (EST) ______Gerry -:- K still the same -:- Wed, May 06, 1998 at 17:33:11 (EST) ________CD -:- K still the same -:- Wed, May 06, 1998 at 18:18:01 (EST) __________Gerry -:- Hints for safe darshan -:- Wed, May 06, 1998 at 18:32:03 (EST) ____________Selena -:- Hints for safe darshan -:- Wed, May 06, 1998 at 20:15:06 (EST) ______________Mickey the Pharisee -:- Hints for safe darshan -:- Wed, May 06, 1998 at 20:22:07 (EST) ________________Robyn -:- Hints for safe darshan -:- Thurs, May 07, 1998 at 11:14:14 (EST) ____________Robyn -:- Hints for safe darshan -:- Thurs, May 07, 1998 at 11:06:39 (EST) ______________Gerry -:- Hints for safe darshan -:- Thurs, May 07, 1998 at 11:09:31 (EST) ________________Robyn -:- Hints for safe darshan -:- Thurs, May 07, 1998 at 11:15:32 (EST) ____Jim -:- Fruit into nuts -:- Wed, May 06, 1998 at 16:31:29 (EST) ______CD -:- the Fruit is good -:- Wed, May 06, 1998 at 17:40:07 (EST) ________Gerry -:- Jim, can I say it this time? -:- Wed, May 06, 1998 at 18:00:09 (EST) __________CD -:- we are not words -:- Wed, May 06, 1998 at 18:34:55 (EST) ________Jim -:- Waxed fruit -:- Wed, May 06, 1998 at 18:48:20 (EST) __________CD -:- beach fruit -:- Wed, May 06, 1998 at 19:04:54 (EST) ________Scott T. -:- the Fruit is good -:- Wed, May 06, 1998 at 23:03:30 (EST) ____Scott T. -:- K still the same -:- Wed, May 06, 1998 at 17:06:21 (EST) ______CD -:- K still the same -:- Wed, May 06, 1998 at 17:52:08 (EST) ________Scott T. -:- K still the same -:- Wed, May 06, 1998 at 23:21:51 (EST) ______Selena -:- K still has the same farmer -:- Wed, May 06, 1998 at 20:24:26 (EST) ________Robyn -:- K still has the same farmer -:- Thurs, May 07, 1998 at 11:24:30 (EST) ____Still Crazy -:- K still the same -:- Wed, May 06, 1998 at 18:24:57 (EST) ______CD -:- K still the same -:- Wed, May 06, 1998 at 18:43:48 (EST) ________Still Crazy -:- K still the same -:- Wed, May 06, 1998 at 18:51:57 (EST) __________CD -:- K still the same -:- Wed, May 06, 1998 at 19:16:25 (EST) ____________Still Crazy -:- K still the same -:- Wed, May 06, 1998 at 19:34:57 (EST) __________Robyn -:- K still the same -:- Thurs, May 07, 1998 at 11:30:08 (EST) ____Robyn -:- K still the same -:- Thurs, May 07, 1998 at 11:03:54 (EST) __Katie -:- The Holy Name -:- Wed, May 06, 1998 at 17:00:58 (EST) ____Still Crazy -:- The Holy Name -:- Wed, May 06, 1998 at 18:38:23 (EST) ______JW -:- The Holy Name -:- Wed, May 06, 1998 at 18:43:57 (EST) ________eb -:- The Commandments -:- Wed, May 06, 1998 at 20:13:28 (EST) ________Selena -:- The Holy Name -:- Wed, May 06, 1998 at 20:44:32 (EST) ________Robyn -:- The Holy Name -:- Thurs, May 07, 1998 at 11:38:43 (EST) __________VP -:- A Vow to Maharaji -:- Thurs, May 07, 1998 at 15:18:52 (EST) ______Gerry -:- The Holy Name -:- Wed, May 06, 1998 at 18:55:40 (EST) ________JW -:- The Holy Name -:- Wed, May 06, 1998 at 19:06:26 (EST) ____Jude -:- The Holy Name -:- Wed, May 06, 1998 at 19:00:02 (EST) ______Katie -:- Techniques on site -:- Wed, May 06, 1998 at 19:53:26 (EST) ________Jude -:- Techniques on site -:- Wed, May 06, 1998 at 20:05:32 (EST) __________Katie -:- constantly remember holy name? -:- Wed, May 06, 1998 at 20:27:15 (EST) ____________Katie -:- P.S. to Jude -:- Wed, May 06, 1998 at 20:36:29 (EST) ____________Scott T. -:- constantly remember holy name? -:- Thurs, May 07, 1998 at 11:21:38 (EST) ______________Jude -:- constantly remember holy name? -:- Thurs, May 07, 1998 at 13:40:15 (EST) ________________Gerry -:- Jude gets a gold star -:- Thurs, May 07, 1998 at 13:54:37 (EST) ________________Scott T. -:- The Bardos -:- Thurs, May 07, 1998 at 21:59:24 (EST) __________JW -:- Techniques on site -:- Thurs, May 07, 1998 at 20:55:39 (EST) ________Still Crazy -:- Techniques on site -:- Wed, May 06, 1998 at 22:53:19 (EST) __________Still Crazy -:- Techniques on site -:- Wed, May 06, 1998 at 22:54:58 (EST) ________Robyn -:- Techniques on site -:- Thurs, May 07, 1998 at 11:48:07 (EST) ____Scott T. -:- The Chad Mitchel Technique -:- Wed, May 06, 1998 at 23:37:10 (EST) ______John -:- The Kingston Trio!! -:- Fri, May 08, 1998 at 00:04:13 (EST) __Still Crazy -:- Excerpts Query -:- Wed, May 06, 1998 at 18:20:12 (EST) ____JW -:- Excerpts Query -:- Wed, May 06, 1998 at 18:46:13 (EST) ______Still Crazy -:- Excerpts Query -:- Wed, May 06, 1998 at 18:56:32 (EST) ________VP -:- Nectar changing? -:- Wed, May 06, 1998 at 19:27:32 (EST) __________Jude -:- Nectar changing? -:- Wed, May 06, 1998 at 19:31:06 (EST) ____________can't own this one -:- Nectar changing? -:- Wed, May 06, 1998 at 19:34:49 (EST) ____________VP -:- Nectar- a survey -:- Wed, May 06, 1998 at 19:51:59 (EST) ______________Katie -:- Nectar- a survey -:- Wed, May 06, 1998 at 19:56:57 (EST) ______________JW -:- Nectar- what I was taught -:- Wed, May 06, 1998 at 19:57:31 (EST) ________________Robyn -:- Nectar- what I was taught -:- Thurs, May 07, 1998 at 12:01:22 (EST) __________________C -:- Nectar- what I was taught -:- Thurs, May 07, 1998 at 13:56:22 (EST) ______________me -:- Nectar- a survey -:- Thurs, May 07, 1998 at 00:59:32 (EST) ______________Robyn -:- Nectar- a survey -:- Thurs, May 07, 1998 at 11:58:30 (EST) __________Still Crazy -:- Nectar changing? -:- Wed, May 06, 1998 at 19:44:34 (EST) ____________Jude -:- Nectar changing? -:- Wed, May 06, 1998 at 19:56:25 (EST) ______________eb -:- Nectar changing? -:- Wed, May 06, 1998 at 20:50:53 (EST) ________________John -:- Nectar changing? -:- Wed, May 06, 1998 at 22:55:18 (EST) __________________Gerry -:- Nectar changing? -:- Wed, May 06, 1998 at 23:17:37 (EST) ____________________John -:- God speaks -:- Thurs, May 07, 1998 at 10:39:50 (EST) ______________________Gerry -:- God speaks -:- Thurs, May 07, 1998 at 11:05:50 (EST) ________________________John -:- God speaks -:- Thurs, May 07, 1998 at 23:19:23 (EST) __________________________Gerry -:- God speaks sense to me -:- Fri, May 08, 1998 at 00:22:35 (EST) ______________________Jude -:- God speaks -:- Thurs, May 07, 1998 at 13:44:38 (EST) ________________________Temporarily John -:- God speaks again -:- Thurs, May 07, 1998 at 14:36:14 (EST) __________________________Gerry -:- God speaks again -:- Fri, May 08, 1998 at 21:04:52 (EST) ________________me -:- Nectar changing? -:- Thurs, May 07, 1998 at 01:03:38 (EST) __________________Robyn -:- Nectar changing? -:- Thurs, May 07, 1998 at 12:07:09 (EST) __________________eb -:- Nectar changing? -:- Thurs, May 07, 1998 at 12:35:16 (EST) ______________JW -:- Nectar changing? -:- Thurs, May 07, 1998 at 21:06:03 (EST) ________Robyn -:- Excerpts Query -:- Thurs, May 07, 1998 at 11:53:53 (EST) __________Still Crazy -:- Excerpts Query -:- Thurs, May 07, 1998 at 12:19:42 (EST) ____________Carol -:- Excerpts Query -:- Thurs, May 07, 1998 at 15:59:02 (EST) |
Date: Thurs, May 07, 1998 at 00:08:10 (EST)
From: Keith Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Hey Jim Message: Hey Jim... Don't be so dim... Understand K... As a doorway... A doorway ...leading to your soul... Ultimately your goal... To make things better... Better, better, better...yeh... Ma ma ma mamamama...mamamama...hey Jim... Hey Jim.. How do you win... When your foe is... Your mentality... A mentality...leading to a maze... Welcome to J's haze... And feel quite dizzy... Dizzy,dizzy,dizzy...yeh... Ma ma ma mamamama...mamamama...hey Jim... With my warmest regards, really, |
Date: Thurs, May 07, 1998 at 00:14:58 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Keith Subject: Hey Keith Message: Hey Keith I happened to drop in just a moment ago And almost bro-o-ke My mind on your ne-ew-ew song The meter Was scanning all-all-all wrong And the rhymes were missing Hey Keith You made your point And I agree that so-o-om-m-me times It hurts To bee-e-e in your mind But I still think Maharaji's not the answer Na-na-na-na-naNANANANA! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, May 07, 1998 at 01:03:09 (EST)
From: Keith Email: None To: Jim Subject: Cool Jim Message: Cool Jim , That you still feel M is not the answer to the 'sometimes ' troublesome mind. Thank god I am not trying to re-convert you! Think and let think....is my motto(one of them). Also, I do not adhere to the 'one master' theory....in other words, growth , grace and godliness(the g-g's)can and for me do enter my existence from many (intermediate) sources. Many teachers.....books....experiences....introspections...dreams... even sometimes, ex-premies. But each to their own complex array of paths....or if some choose , one simple path......and in the end , what is really important? Is it not totally within the domain of individual understanding, aspiration, subjective inclination and so on....as to what is deemed important? I do not agree with your particular views (I am not an athiest, but I agree that most new-age spirituality is shonky)but I do respect your right to have them and share them.....even when your 'logic' makes me dizzy! And I must admit that I do enjoy stirring you ..well..I guess Jim-baiting has some real entertainment value. Regards, Keith. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, May 07, 1998 at 11:56:48 (EST)
From: eb Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Obsessive Thinking Message: Keith: Shonky, all right! I like it. To everyone: My son in the middle has been diagnosed as having obsessive-compulsive personality disorder. He is 17 and talented musically, has decent grades (did high school from home actually), is in college. But he can't stop thinking negative thoughts. He's broken his hand ramming it into a wall. To deal with his anger, he has taken to staying in his closet (he has his tv and computer in there). He says it's so he can't hear us all because we're so loud. My dilemma--a therapist wants him to try meds while continuing talk-therapy. His guitar teacher is into New Thought/Spiritualism stuff and says that drugs would only serve to mask his problems. I bring this up here because I love you, my forum buddies, and I think you are all acutely aware of thought processes and attempts to control them. I think meditation helped me to calm my crazy mind to a point, but some kinds of crazy are harder to deal with IMHO. Any comments, suggestions, stories? Thanks and love to all, eb Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, May 07, 1998 at 12:46:11 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: eb Subject: Obsessive Thinking Message: eb, I really feel for you. An attorney I used to work with has a son with OCD and I saw how difficult it was for him and his wife. Besides obsessive thoughts, their son also had the typical 'hand-washing,' and 'lock-checking' behaviors as well. He was about 14 when the problem got very serious. What sounds different in your son's case is that he appears to be AWARE that something is wrong and I think that might be a very positive sign. I've heard that OCD is especially hard to deal with in a lot of cases where the sufferer doesn't believe there is a problem. That was true in the case of my friend's son. My friend's wife is from Sweden and what eventually happened is that the whole family relocated to Sweden where there was very good, and free, treatment available for OCD. The kid was given medication and therapy, and even lived in a kind of group home for awhile. Apprently in his case, it was good for him to see and be with others who had the problem and they tended to help each other be conscious of what was happening. I guess it helped him be aware of it. Anyhow, the kid is in his 20s now, and apprently, while the problem isn't COMPLETELY gone, it is under control and he's back in the states, graduated from college, and works at some high-tech computer company. Like a lot of people with OCD, he is very smart. All the best. JW Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, May 07, 1998 at 12:50:22 (EST)
From: Gerry Email: None To: eb Subject: Obsessive Thinking Message: Gosh eb, I don't know what to say other than you have my best wishes for your son and your whole family. I would give slightly more weight to what the doctor said over the new age guitar teacher, though. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, May 07, 1998 at 13:08:14 (EST)
From: Jude Email: None To: Gerry Subject: Obsessive Thinking Message: Dear Gerry, Obsessive Thinking I wasn't going to write anything tonight because I think I have been over-contributing way too much! But I want to agree about the guitar teacher - for me drugs helped my very bad depression - I refused to take anything for over a year because from my 12-step beliefs (and this was backed up by a 'nurse' from the 'fellowship') - anti-depressants were drugs. When I finally decided to take something I read a book about the brain chemistry and why this stuff works - anyway I took them for 2 different periods of time, once for about a year and then later for a couple of months when I had another bout. In the meantime I was going to therapy and working on my problems, but truly who knows where to draw the line between chemistry and personality disorders, etc - it can be very interwoven and I don't agree with the 'purist' approach at all. Recently I used Homeopathics consistently for a few months and got some really good results for myself.Personally I think it's a really good idea to stabilise someone's condition first and then later on down the track maybe try alternatives if thats what he wants. I don't agree with a lot of the new age 'metaphyscial causes' stuff. I know Louise Hay's material by heart and my daughter is a bed-wetter (has been off and on for years). I have always blamed myself because this means she has 'fear of a parent'. My therapist tells me it means she is a heavy sleeper who doesn't awake, and that's it. I used new-age thinking for many years and believe me it got me nowwhere at all and exaserbated my drug problem. I can think of very little I got out of this world-view and much of it is impossible to achieve, maybe like knowledge. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, May 07, 1998 at 13:12:56 (EST)
From: Jude Email: None To: eb Subject: what kind of fool am I Message: Re: compulsive obsessive disorder: Sorry, my communication was meant for you, eb. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, May 07, 1998 at 18:39:10 (EST)
From: Katie Email: petkat@mail.trib.net To: Jude Subject: To Jude Message: Hi Jude - I agree with Still and Robyn - I certainly don't think that you have been 'over-contributing'! You ask some really good questions and bring up some very timely and interesting topics. Your posts have made me think about things I had forgotten - about Maharaji's organization and about myself during my premie days. So keep on! Katie Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, May 07, 1998 at 12:59:15 (EST)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs To: eb Subject: Obsessive Thinking Message: Dear eb, I was worried when Jude first started posting here that maybe we'd give advice, trying to help her, that would harm her instead. After reading post responses I felt better because there are so many different points of view and points of reference among us that I think she got a good cross section of opinions. I want to express my support for your son and yourself. I don't know much about OCD except a magazine show piece I saw recently which basically said treatment is a crap shoot. JW at least had some constructive info for you, not that you'll be moving to Sweden! I am very apprehensive of all prescribed drugs and think they can be as distructive as those purchased in the streets. Someone would have to have a pretty fancy talk to convince me but seriously I would have to have done research on their method of treatment and really trust them before I let my child take any drugs. Also the doctor would have to be open to hearing about the child's reactions to the meds as well as supervising the case in general. Yesterday I found out my youngest daughter may have diabeties, I have been besides myself with consern and worry. Reading your post and I think one from Carol saying her son has Terrets(sp?) has put my daughter's situation into perspective although I am still very worried for her as she is so young and wants to have children. Just know you and Carol have my thoughts and support. Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, May 07, 1998 at 13:28:28 (EST)
From: Jude Email: None To: Robyn Subject: Obsessive Thinking Message: Dear Robyn, Thanks for your thoughtful post above and the concerns you mentioned. I also realised (in retrospect) - why am I dumping my life's problems on these nice people - a lot of which started before I went to M -and I am different from a lot of you because I entered knowledge at a different time. But reflecting I realised, too that different perspectives are really valuable. I apologise if I have caused anyone concerns by talking about personal material. Please don't be concerned - I am quite a well person, just pissed that I live in a really small house. I have a nice car, though! So there's some balance. I suppose one angle is that you can be cheated and damaged by things other than cults - because this happened to me, prior to hearing about Maharaji but guess what - if I hadn't read this Forum I may have spent another 10 years trying to practice, wondering why I am not walking around in Nirvana and battling it out with my heart/mind (crazy-making, I agree). So what is it with me that draws me to lies - and what is it in me that wants to uncover them. Maybe I will continue to practice - I don't know. I find reading this has been wonderful, supportive, nurturing and sensible (I appreciate the cooking tips, too....) I had a quick look in some recent archives and realised everyone here is growing and changing so I didn't feel so bad about posting some of the material I did....Ok that's over now (!) One thing I realised about myself is, why do I wear my scars as a kind of degree? Then again, intimacy with strangers is maybe safe for me. Gee, I hope nobody I know recognises me though, what would they say? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, May 07, 1998 at 13:42:03 (EST)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs To: Jude Subject: Obsessive Thinking Message: Dear Jude, When I read your first posts I was worried about you but now I realize you are not closer to the edge than I am on any given day. I also want you to know that I don't think you post to much at all or that your statements/feelings are inapropriate. Your OK, kiddo! I have Louise Hay's book and don't know if I've made a reference to it here or not. I did think of it when JW said he had athlete's foot though! I take from it what feels right and take the rest as a diversion. Once I looked up something and couldn't stop from repeating the affirmation over and over, like a montra. That never happened before so I thought it must have struck a nerve down deep. Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, May 07, 1998 at 13:44:01 (EST)
From: Gerry Email: None To: Jude Subject: Red badge of courage Message: Jude: 'One thing I realised about myself is, why do I wear my scars as a kind of degree? ' Jude, some of us just like to reveal ourselves to others. It makes us , I don't know, more human, I guess. Not so perfect like the Great Ones who think they rule the spriritual realms. Anyway, it's pretty safe over the net and besides, it's fun. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, May 07, 1998 at 13:53:27 (EST)
From: Jude Email: None To: Gerry Subject: What fun! Message: Yes I agree! I worked on a database recently that was set up to 'post' jobs to people in the organisation. The customer service operator who took the call selected the correct category and bingo! someone got their job e-mailed to them including the time-frame they were expected to do it in. In another company a young computer wiz got all fancy with connecting about 5 different systems to automate the flow of data within the company. I thought these information system technology things were pretty interesting for about 5 minutes, but it's only work after all and who cares? I'd much rather use technology to have meaningful exchanges with people I would otherwise never meet, yet with whom I have something in common. And I have found it therapeutic. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, May 07, 1998 at 15:13:13 (EST)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Gerry Subject: Red badge of courage Message: Dear Gerry and Jude, 'One thing I realised about myself is, why do I wear my scars as a kind of degree? ' I also think, Jude, in reference to dysfunctional family secrets, that I am pretty much an open book. Don't want to keep any secrets anymore. Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, May 07, 1998 at 15:40:16 (EST)
From: Gerry Email: None To: Robyn Subject: Red badge of courage Message: Robyn, How do get make those nice italics? Do you write in a word processing program and copy and paste to the bb? Or do I need to read the Forum instructions--I hate instructions--A shrink once told me I had a problem with authority. Sheesh, and to think I was only there to paint his garage. Guess they just can't resist. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, May 07, 1998 at 17:36:03 (EST)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs To: Gerry Subject: italics Message: Gerry, I hope the subject shows what I typed and not the italics. If it works that is how you get italics. It is html programing language. They are called tags. If you replace the i with a b your typing will show in bold....and so much more! Robyn Never mind, it didn't work, it said I had nothing in the subject field, damn. OK type: a greater than sign (over the comma) then type a small i for italics, b for bold, etc. Then type a less than sign(over the period). Now type what you want to be italisized. Now close the tag or make Brian more work as he will have to find the opening tag and close it or all the archives after that will be in italics. To close type the greater than sign, a forward slash (over the question mark), a small i and a less than sign. Hope you can make sense of that! Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, May 07, 1998 at 17:42:11 (EST)
From: Gerry Email: None To: Robyn Subject: italics Message: Robin thanks I think I got it. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, May 07, 1998 at 19:49:15 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: Robyn Subject: italics Message: I am practicing italics. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, May 07, 1998 at 19:53:51 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: Robyn Subject: italics Message: Robin thank you for explaining about bold and italics, that was very sweet of you. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, May 07, 1998 at 23:41:14 (EST)
From: VP Email: None To: Robyn Subject: italics Message: Robyn, To think I could have been doing this instead of SCREAMING all this time! Or, I could have just read the instructions. I learned a new computer word from Brian tonight and now this. Will wonders never cease? Thanks, VP Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, May 08, 1998 at 00:09:01 (EST)
From: Katie Email: None To: all Subject: HTML Message: Just to mention that bold, italics and how to make links are in 'Forum Help', kindly written for us by Brian... By the way, I am too lazy to use HTML most of the time - I prefer just to YELL. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, May 08, 1998 at 00:39:39 (EST)
From: VP Email: None To: Katie Subject: HTML Message: Katie, That's what I meant when I said that I could have read the directions. Actually, in Paradise I didn't want to try for fear that I would do it wrong and my message would post with all of the greater than and less than symbols in it! Here at least I can proof the post, so I wasn't as afraid to try it and mess up when I saw this thread. I like to SCREAM, too. It's faster. VP Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, May 08, 1998 at 13:50:09 (EST)
From: Carol Email: None To: VP Subject: HTML Message: I just tried the italics directions and it didn't work. I'll read 'help' and in the meantime, I use 'quote marks' for emphasis or distinction. Carol Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, May 08, 1998 at 18:08:49 (EST)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs To: VP Subject: HTML Message: Dear VP & Katie, Can you imagine the POWER/RELEASE from bold combined with caps!!!! Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, May 08, 1998 at 18:06:39 (EST)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs To: VP Subject: italics Message: Dear VP & JW, I thought everyone knew that! Glad to be of service! Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, May 07, 1998 at 13:46:37 (EST)
From: Still Crazy Email: None To: Jude Subject: Obsessive Thinking Message: Jude, I have enjoyed your posts here, and I don't feel like you were 'dumping' on us. This forum is helping me in my current growth process, and I hope it's helping you too. From my point of view, at least, I don't feel like you're 'over-contributing' or that you should do anything less or different. It's hard to be open and honest with strangers on such a world-wide forum, but you seem to be doing OK with that. Just continue to be yourself and I for one will appreciate it. -Still Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, May 07, 1998 at 14:21:32 (EST)
From: eb Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Obsessive Thinking Message: Dear everyone, Thanks for your comments. I know where you're coming from, Jude. When I decided to stop drinking and using, I immersed myself into New Age hooey hooey and would not take any prescription meds. Zoloft is my drug of choice now for treating my depression. When I told my sister (who is recovering as well) about my son's diagnosis, she said, 'Oh goodie. Now we have a matched set.' My biological family runs the gamut of mental disorders--I tried to practise Knowledge to relieve mine, and it worked as long as I could delude myself into believing the hype. My eldest son passed through an exceedingly difficult time a few years ago and tried to commit suicide twice within 2 weeks. He has come through and is currently prosperous and relatively happy. Not on any meds, yet anyway. When I think back to that time period, and I really don't know how I made it through. My husband was relapsing with alcohol then, and I had to send him away for awhile till he got it back together. (He's been sober for about 3 years now). I went to lots of meetings, I remember. But sheeeit, it was tough. My youngest daughter at the time was acting out, in therapy, etc. And I had a three year old and a fulltime job. And I was in school. Aargh. So my current situation is probably easier for me. I like meds and I don't blame myself for my son's disorder. It's really quite a nice one--he cleans the house very well. My 'gothic teenaged daughter from hell who used to have ADHD' told me last nite that it's unusual for kids her age to have such a great relationship as she and I have. She tells me she loves me and apologizes for bitching in the morning. And the now 7-year old wants to marry me. What more can I ask? So you see, Jude, you are not the only one who can post a lot. I've just been really busy lately. BTW--I didn't get the promotion for which I interviewed. But that's okay cuz I'm not attached. eb Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, May 07, 1998 at 14:42:52 (EST)
From: John Email: None To: eb Subject: Seeking advice Message: Okay Eb, since you're now obviously so clear and enlightened how bout a little advice for me. Our 19yr old male recently dropped out of college and moved back home where he has a stupid job counting soybeans (no lie!) during the day, but at night he reads spiritual books by Gurdjieff, Ouspensky, Castaneda, Dostoevesky. He has proclaimed that he needs to go to India to find a master and right before our very eyes has has become a bona fide seeker of truth. Wahhhhhh, and I wanted him to be a nice lawyer, doctor, or investment banker!!! Any advice for how to get him back on the track towards a meaningful career and, most importantly, independence from us? Actually what is very wierd is talking to him. He sounds exactly like I sounded at 19. Whoa, now that's scary! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, May 07, 1998 at 15:34:11 (EST)
From: I'm not Dr. Laura Email: None To: John Subject: And I don't give advice... Message: Dearest John, Let me tell you about my eldest daughter. We have always been very, very close--I breastfed her until she was 4-years old. She's a strawberry-blonde Leo who ran naked through her first 3 years because I let her choose how to dress. She made straight A's through Junior High and High School. She was accepted to several Universities (we thought she would become a lawyer or a fashion designer), chose one close to home, and moved out. Mind you, she was still a virgin and very naive, because having watched me go through difficulties ranging from divorce, mental breakdowns, and then all my hooey hooey stuff, she was determined not to make the same mistakes I did. Well, guess what happened during the year she moved out. She found a boyfriend who couldn't stay faithful to save his life. She got into drugs and alcohol, dropped out of college, lost a lot of weight, and had her heart broken. I stepped in to rescue her; brought her home, cleaned her up, got her back in school, etc. (Actually, she got herself back together, but I had to force her to come home). That was 2 years ago. Now, she's just about done with her undergraduate degree, works full time, and has some relatively decent love relationships. She also has a belly-button ring and she pierced her nipple, but she's really quite conservative. In fact, there is a part of her that wants to go hosteling in Europe, but she's so concerned about her career, car payments, etc. that she can't get herself to go. When she moved out the first time I was devastated. She was my best friend and my support. (I know it was dysfunctional, but that's how it was). She'll be moving out again next month, but this time I'll be fine. I'm on better terms with my hubby and have lots of friends. I have often wondered how other people were able to keep their children walking the straight and narrow. I suppose if I'd stayed a Mormon, I could've brainwashed the children into it. The fruit didn't fall far from the tree in my case, nor in yours, John. (BTW, I still read the Brothers Karamazov once-a-year). My parenting style is this: 1) Watch for signs of talent 2) Do whatever it takes to encourage that talent 3) Listen 4) Get out of the way Lots of times my 5 children have tried to get me to tell them what they should do. And I've gotten to where I just say, the answer is within you. (Guru mom). Best wishes to you John. Your son sounds fine to me but consider the source. I didn't intend for this to get so long. Hope it wasn't boring. eb Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, May 07, 1998 at 17:31:53 (EST)
From: John Email: None To: I'm not Dr. Laura Subject: And I don't give advice... Message: Thanks eb, and certainly not boring. Actually, I'm not really worried, in fact I'm quite proud that he is NOT watching tv, reading such interesting books, and seriously considering what the hell is the meaning of life! btw, he is now reading Brothers Karamazov. When I think of how I was at 16,17, 18 it's very difficult for me to assess any teen's behavior as being all that meaningful or important. When you mentioned your 17yr old's destructive behavior, I remembered at that age I used to burn myself intentionally with the cigarette I was smoking. Why? I have no idea, other than I was just very depressed and confused. At 19, the clouds lifted for me and suddenly I felt fine, normal (well, relatively) and interested in participating in life. My parents never knew I was burning myself like that, and if they had can you imagine how freaked out they'd have been? Some things parents are best kept ignorant of, imho. It's very funny that as good as I feel about how I've navigated my way through life, I still would never recommend to anyone what I have done. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, May 07, 1998 at 18:12:46 (EST)
From: eb Email: None To: John Subject: John, you are soooo right! Message: I look back and think, 'what was going on?' First I go out and find myself a convicted felon, drug addict, alcoholic, schizophrenic and decide to have children with him. What was I thinking? And like you say, I would never recommend to anyone to do what I've done. Btw, do you remember what you were thinking when you burned yourself? One of my kids was into that for awhile too. She's still a pyro but I limit her to fire rings and fireplaces. She used to carve on herself too. Whew! Glad that one's over. eb Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, May 07, 1998 at 19:24:52 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: eb Subject: To the Ex-Parents Message: You know what? You, parents, especially you, eb and also John and Robyn, are saints and deserve medals for what you've gone through. Any ambitions I ever had of being a parent have been wiped out just reading these comments. Not because I don't think it's a great thing, but because I don't think I could handle it. Where DO you get the patience and fortitude? And you are so calm and philosophical about it all! Geez. What super-human planet did you guys come from? Please know that I have a lot of respect for you guys! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, May 08, 1998 at 18:15:42 (EST)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs To: JW Subject: To the Ex-Parents Message: Dear JW, I certainly haven't had the problems to deal with that eb or Carol (if you are the one with a child with Terrets(sp?)) have had to deal with. For me my fortitued comes from my love for my girls, the feeling that my JOB is to help them grow into well balanced and happy adults or as close to that as possible, also after seeing and living through being raised by a dysfunctional family I knew I didn't want to live my life and have my kids grow up with that. I have also come along way at their expense, they've lived through my bad choices in men also, but as for bad choices in men I think eb should get 1000 points. If I understand correctly, eb, you are still with this man but he has gotten his shit together, I hope so for your sake. Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, May 08, 1998 at 19:07:28 (EST)
From: eb Email: None To: Robyn Subject: To the Ex-Parents Message: 'but as for bad choices in men I think eb should get 1000 points.' Finally I get some points! Thanks Robin. Nope, I traded in the first husband for a couple of sober types who bored the shit out of me. Then, I married my current husband who was clean and sober for 6 years before I met him. Prior to meeting him, I was in a support group for 'Women who love too much' which taught that women like me couldn't be attracted to men who weren't fucked up, so I dated--and had one child--with a man with whom I wasn't attracted and didn't love. Got honest with myself and had to leave him. (I actually used to *love* being pregnant, giving birth, and nursing. The men were a necessary step in achieving my goal--13 children. Wish I'd found out about sperm banks. Okay bb, I admit it: I'm devious.) Anyway, I decided that I preferred passion to boredom. Fell in love with and married a man as intelligent as Scott T. A real looker, too. Love keeps growing. We have a six year old son together. Life's good today. (Tomorrow, who knows?) To those of you who are able to believe in a higher power, Jesus, Buddha, whomever, I envy you. I have a powerful experience of my soul, I think, but I don't have a dogma I can believe that makes me feel safe, or that it has all been worth it, or that there is a divine purpose. Sometimes it all just seems too hard. Hope I still get the points. eb Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, May 09, 1998 at 14:12:58 (EST)
From: Carol Email: None To: eb Subject: To the Ex-Parents Message: eb, Just keep having that powerful feeling in you soul. Being a loving human is all that is required of us and mistakes are allowed and learned from. No dogma, agya, guilt, yardsticks, etc. for us anymore!!! carol Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, May 10, 1998 at 12:37:52 (EST)
From: Scott T. Email: None To: eb Subject: Let's get this straight! Message: eb: Re: ...as intelligent as Scott T. But, why not '...as good looking as Scott T.?' If you are going to kibitz in full view of us on-line males you ought to pay a bit more attention to our egos, for heaven sake. Besides, 'clever is as clever does' according to F. Gump. And as George Castanza will tell you, no woman gives a hoot about how 'intelligent' you are. Even superman thought to disguise himself as 'intellectual' when he wanted to completely divert attention from his potency and appeal. Please don't compel me to learn a completely new set of standards. Jim and I are, even now, thinking about going on a diet. All we need is a little encouragement from the opposite sex. -Scott Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, May 10, 1998 at 13:16:16 (EST)
From: Jude Email: None To: Scott T. Subject: Let's get this straight! Message: Dear Scott, And as George Castanza will tell you, no woman gives a hoot about how 'intelligent' you are. Do you listen to everything George says? Sorry, I had to add that! As you are no doubt aware I am in a different time zone to many of you. I shouldn't be here but I woke up from a strange dream where people in gold suits were singing 'it's the same, same old song, but there's a different meaning since you've been gone' What a laugh! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, May 10, 1998 at 13:31:58 (EST)
From: Carol Email: None To: Scott T. Subject: Let's get this straight! Message: Scott, If you want to be known for your good looks, you could start a site where all who wish to be seen could post photos...maybe before and after pictures. Or youth and maturity images! carol Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, May 10, 1998 at 17:01:21 (EST)
From: Scott T. Email: None To: Carol Subject: Etta, and the pcture gallery Message: Carol: I have a number of pictures of family members on my mother's side taken in the 1890s. There's one of my great grandmother Belle (whom everyone just referred to as 'Mom'), with her parents and sisters. The sisters were in their late teens and early twenties. Her sister Etta always intrigued me. She was a very striking woman, dark and direct. She died in her forties, possibly during the influenza pandemic. She never married, and never had any children. Belle (Mom) lived long enough for me to have met her when I was a kid, but I always wondered what Etta's life was like. Did that directness you can see in her cause her problems? Would she have faired better today? Would I be able to have a conversation with her? Would we have agreed on things? Pictures at different stages of life really hint at untold mysteries. They are usually not exactly what most people would call 'upbeat,' however. -Scott Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, May 10, 1998 at 19:42:18 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Scott T. Subject: Protein Power! Message: Scott, I went over to Vancouver this weekend for a family thing and ran into some old friends I haven't seen in years. A few brothers lost an awful lot of weight and look great on the high protein/low carb diet, completely antithetical to the Pritikin principles I've believed in these last 15 years. Are you aware of this approach -- all apparently based on good science about insulin and glugacin. I picked up the book. Anyone else know about this? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, May 11, 1998 at 05:19:50 (EST)
From: Jude Email: None To: Jim Subject: Protein Power! Message: Dear Jim Many moons ago I went on such a diet. I recall it included using Litmus paper thingies to test your urine for acidity levels. Then I went to Paris, which was a big deal for me. From the time I got on the plane I couldn't stick to this (strict) diet.When I walked around the streets of Gay Paree and every shopfront it seemed was a patisserie... I put all the weight back on in a matter of minutes. That's one problem with that type of diet. You lose weight quickly but as soon as you add a few carbohydrates, you stack the weight back on and sometimes more than you lost. Everyone is different but personally speaking the only thing that has worked for me is low fat eating + walking. Just slow, continous exercise such as walking is fat-burning (but not aerobics). The slogan my GP told me is - Fat makes fat. Fat + sugar is the worst (eg cakes) Just start reading those labels and don't try and lose more than 1/2 - 1 kilo a week. It worked for me anyway, I am now slim, and gorgeous. Truly. But you've got to be really strict with that fat, and learn to buy substitutes eg parmesan if you really love cheese, low fat ice cream, throw away the margarine/butter. It's better for your heart as well - by the way if you have to choose between those two choose butter - margarine is full of 'plastic' molecules which clog up your arteries. Avoid anything that says 'hydralised' and your arteries will love you. PS The other bad thing about those high protein diets is they are really bad for your kidneys. Yours sincerely, Slim, gorgeous, successful, happy, thriving, and demystified Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, May 11, 1998 at 11:33:01 (EST)
From: eb Email: None To: Scott T. Subject: As Gorgeous as Scott T. Message: or how about at humorous as... Actually, I find intelligence highly stimulating sexually. My female friends have told me that my husband looks rather nerdish to them, but to me, he's a god. And I love it when he talks chemistry to me. Scott, I got some pictures of me scanned, so I'll send them to you and see if you remember me now. eb Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, May 11, 1998 at 14:33:17 (EST)
From: Katie Email: petkat@mail.trib.net To: eb, Scott, and all Subject: As Gorgeous as Scott T. Message: Dear eb - I agree that intelligence is essential (to me) in a partner. (I have gone out with a lot of guys who were really handsome and even nice as well, but who I couldn't have a decent conversation with.) I also think the following things are just as important: 1. Acceptance of the partner (e.g. me). I don't mean total acceptance (who is capable of that?) but generaly acceptance of the partner's emotional, mental, and physical personas. In other words, don't get into a relationship with someone who you want to change! 2. Willingness to work on the relationship cooperatively with the partner. This may even include therapy! (sorry everyone, but I had to bring it up!) Just my thoughts! Katie Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, May 07, 1998 at 21:35:04 (EST)
From: Scott T. Email: None To: John Subject: The 'time of ashes' Message: John: I remembered at that age I used to burn myself intentionally with the cigarette I was smoking. Why? I have no idea, other than I was just very depressed and confused. At 19, the clouds lifted for me and suddenly I felt fine, normal (well, relatively) and interested in participating in life. In the Viking culture there was a sanctioned period that they called the 'time of ashes' for people in their mid-teens. Those kids had only one responsibility, which was to bank the row of fires that ran down the length of the long houses (like barracks). The kids could eat whenever they wanted, and had no obligations toward anyone, and actually slept in the ashes next to the fires. At a certain point those kids just walked out of the ashes and started their normal lives. No one told them when they were ready. They just decided on their own, and of course their place was always taken by someone else who had reached their time of ashes. -Scott Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, May 07, 1998 at 14:47:55 (EST)
From: VP Email: None To: eb Subject: Obsessive Thinking Message: eb, I would advise you to have a second opinion and perhaps a third (if you live in a place where you have access to more than one doc in this area of expertise.) It's pretty important to get more than one medical opinion about treatment, no matter what you are dealing with. I remember a few years ago when docs/educators were diagnosing everyone who got out of their seat in school with ADD (attention defecit disorder). There was a joke about this: 'Now it's called A.D.D. but it used to be called B.O.Y.' Not really funny, because it was true. Everyone was medicated. For the kids who really needed it, the drugs were great. The folks who really got results had a combination of treatments with drugs just being one of these. I think I would try the drugs if more than one doctor recommended them. You can always stop treatment if it's not working, but it could make a difference for your son. What are the side effects or possible long term effects of the drugs? That's what I would want to know. Hope everything works out for your son, eb. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, May 07, 1998 at 15:53:39 (EST)
From: eb Email: None To: VP Subject: Obsessive Thinking Message: Thanks VP. I will do that. An aside, when my daughter was diagnosed with A.D.D., I used to say she was actually S.P.O.I.L.E.D. I let her try ritalin, and we had to peel her off the ceiling she got so high (which BTW indicated that she was not hyperkinetic). She grew out of it when she went through puberty. I used to call her the hurricane. God, she was fast and jittery. Used to fall out of her chair in school. Now she's more like a zombie--hates to wake up in the morning. While we're on the topic, I heard from a woman originally from the U.K. that there is no such thing as ADD over there. Can anyone confirm this? eb Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, May 07, 1998 at 21:46:21 (EST)
From: Scott T. Email: None To: eb Subject: ADD and the Revolution Message: eb: While we're on the topic, I heard from a woman originally from the U.K. that there is no such thing as ADD over there. Can anyone confirm this? If true, that's very funny. I'll have to tell Martin about that. He'll get a kick out of it. Attention Deficit Disorder is a disease found only in the 'country of the revolution.' The 'country of the counter-revolution' need not be concerned. I love it! Jim, are you Canucks subject to ADD? -Scott Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, May 08, 1998 at 08:01:22 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Scott T. Subject: Canadian ADD, eh? Message: Scott, I'm surprised you'd think I'm even reading this thread. Actually I'm not but I've got my page notifier set to advise me everytime my name comes up. (Now watch Robyn try to figure out how to do that - g!) No, we've got ADD in spades here but I think it's mainly on the west coast. Hey whatever happened to hypoglycemia anyway? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, May 07, 1998 at 15:19:57 (EST)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs To: eb Subject: Obsessive Thinking Message: Dear eb, My god, dear, your life a few years back makes my last 4 months look like a walk in the park! The point is, for me maybe that all things pass, it is just hard in the thick of things sometimes. That is all changing for me now anyway as I am being released from a day a week from my full time job! Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, May 07, 1998 at 15:55:50 (EST)
From: eb Email: None To: Robyn Subject: Obsessive Thinking Message: Hi Robyn, So what're you going to do with all your spare time? Thankful that all things pass, eb Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, May 07, 1998 at 18:04:12 (EST)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs To: eb Subject: Enjoy! Message: Dear eb, Enjoy my daughter, my friends, my animals, my home, my yard, the sun, the rain, the creeks, do some cleaning, cooking, yard work. I can't wait!!! Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, May 07, 1998 at 16:12:24 (EST)
From: Carol Email: None To: eb Subject: Obsessive Thinking Message: Dear eb, My youngest son (9) has Tourette Syndrome, Asperger's Syndrome and also some OCD. I am in favor of using medication to help balance a neurological imbalance of brain chemicals. I do it myself for depression and am so much improved! My son takes Tenex and we are just now trying another med to see if it has better results (less tics and noisemaking). There are very helpful sites on the internet. Check http://indy.radiology.uiowa.edu/Patients/IHB/Psych/Tourette/ObsesiveCompulsive.html and there are many links from http://www.edel.edu/bkirby/asperger carol Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, May 07, 1998 at 16:27:32 (EST)
From: Carol Email: None To: Carol Subject: Obsessive Thinking Message: OOps! I misspelled or misstyped 'Obsessive'. Also wanted to add that we tried zoloft for my son which works with many people for OCD, but we didn't take the time to find out because it made his tics worse and gave him nightmares! Everyone is different and you can't tell what will work until you try it. Carol Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, May 07, 1998 at 16:50:51 (EST)
From: eb Email: None To: Carol Subject: Obsessive Thinking Message: Hi Carol, You're so right. It took me many, many tries with anti-depressants to find one that worked. And when it did, it really was like magic. The hard part was getting through the 2-6 weeks worth of side effects with each different drug to finally determine that it didn't work (until one did). My father drank himself to death trying to deal with depression. He couldn't find one back then when they were still so 'dirty,' soaking all the neurons indescriminately. After I found one I liked, it turned out that our HMO has a forumlary that doesn't include it. So I had to fight to get an exception. Thanks for the info. I'm going to look back at your previous posts to read about your son. You sound very strong. eb Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, May 08, 1998 at 00:08:16 (EST)
From: John Email: None To: Carol Subject: Belated thanks Message: Carol: I don't know if I ever thanked you for that post you wrote about your son and yourself taking part in that ceremony in Oregon, I think it was. I really enjoyed it. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, May 07, 1998 at 18:35:25 (EST)
From: Katie Email: None To: Carol Subject: To Carol Message: Hi Carol - just to let you know that I've read your posts about your son and think you must be a wonderful and strong person. (You also have a GREAT sense of humor!) I have another friend named Carol who lives in Washington State. Her oldest son has (I think) Asperger's Syndrome, and she has worked so hard to help him. It's really paid off - he's now doing very well. You remind me of her. Take care - I hope we can be of some support here if you need it. Katie Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, May 08, 1998 at 01:21:47 (EST)
From: Carol Email: None To: Katie,John,eb Subject: To Carol Message: I am glad to be here and able to express myself. I love the positive strokes and any interest in my life experience as I relate it. Thanks to you all, too. Carol Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, May 07, 1998 at 16:21:41 (EST)
From: Katie Email: petkat@mail.trib.net To: eb Subject: Obsessive Thinking and ADD Message: Hi eb, I sent the following to you via e-mail, but thought it might be good to post it as well. I have OCD. It took the doctors a long time to figure it out because it was just persistent negative thoughts (not handwashing, or lock-checking, or anything. All my OCD is in my head). I HIGHLY recommend drug therapy (anti-depressant plus anti-anxiety drugs) Talk therapy helps get at the root causes, but it's pretty slow and I think that one needs the drugs to stay sane while being in therapy. I got almost suicidal because of my persistent negative thoughts. Every time I was happy, bad stuff came into my head (anything bad I had ever heard or read about people being cruel to animals, in my case).. My dad, sister and brother all have the same thing. My dad dealt with it by drinking, my sister (who has a mild case) goes to ACOA, and my brother is a mess. He works really hard and tries NOT to think. By the way, meditation did not help at all with this problem. I have had it all my life, including before, during and after my time as a premie. I also wanted to tell you that my 13 year old nephew has ADD without hyperactivity. He is extremely intelligent but was very spacy. For example, he would forget that there was homework assigned, and if he did do his homework he would 'lose' it in his backpack. He didn't have any social skills and thus had no friends. The doctor put him on Zoloft, which is recommended for ADD without hyperactivity, but this didn't do much at all. Now he is on Ritalin and is doing so much better that it's amazing. He's not hyper at all, has interacting much more with other kids, and has friends. Anyway, because of this, I don't like it when people say there is no such thing as ADD. Hope your son will be OK. I have been there and it is AWFUL. Take care, eb, Katie Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, May 07, 1998 at 23:27:21 (EST)
From: VP Email: None To: Katie Subject: Obsessive Thinking and ADD Message: Katie, I hope that you didn't take my post above as saying that there was no such thing as ADD, but I do think that it is over diagnosed. (This from my experience in career number two.) I did meet one person who was a true textbook ADD case and it was really frightening. This poor little soul couldn't focus concentration for much more than a second, but was one of the most creative people I have ever met. I also met a lot of wild little people who didn't need the drugs they were on, but their parents needed to hit some parenting classes. Sad, but true. VP Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, May 07, 1998 at 23:38:57 (EST)
From: Katie Email: None To: VP Subject: Obsessive Thinking and ADD Message: Hi VP - I didn't think you were saying that there is no ADD. I do know that ADD is currently overdiagnosed, especially in boys. And I definitely know that a lot of people have kids who they don't have time for, thus all the use of medication rather than attention. My sister really did try the behaviour modification stuff first with my nephew. It worked a little, but not enough so that she wasn't very worried about him coping in middle school (she had to remind him to put his socks on three times in the morning, for example! And other things like that.) They live in a big city, and I think that the doctors there are very aware of the overuse of Ritalin. My sister had problems getting the psychiatrist to do anything for my nephew, because he is not hyper. (Also, my mom is in AA and also has some New Age ideas about drugs so she had a fit about the Ritalin.) Despite all this, I am really glad that my sis had the perseverance and courage to get Ritalin for my nephew - it really helped him. I know it's not a cure-all though! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, May 07, 1998 at 17:33:20 (EST)
From: x Email: None To: eb Subject: Obsessive Thinking Message: Take him to church on sunday? Go on a lengthy vacation with him. Pay for him and a friend to go on a cruise to the islands. Pay for him and two friends to go somewhere friday nights. Saturdays too. Buy them tickets to concerts. Get him out that way with his same age group. Get him a vcr and rent lots of videos. Ask a girl to be his friend and show an interest. Find a christian one that is solid enough. It is possible. Go to a concert or show with him and take him out to dinner just you and him. Let him pick the place and time. Show him his breath. Tell him it is life and it feels good. Take him to a rave. Let him dance all night at a rave. it IS kind of druggie there. good luck. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, May 08, 1998 at 16:57:34 (EST)
From: eb Email: None To: x Subject: Thanks Message: Dear x, Thanks for the suggestions. I especially like the one about taking a vacation because we both really need one. eb Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, May 07, 1998 at 13:12:31 (EST)
From: C Email: None To: Keith Subject: Not a master Message: A 'master' who tells his devotees to stop meditating is something else but not a master. A 'master' who has no idea of what it's like to meditate and clearly has no experience of it is not a master but a bullshitter. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, May 06, 1998 at 22:40:11 (EST)
From: Jude Email: None To: Everyone Subject: dysfunctional Message: I just want to add this before I leave - while I have been hanging out the washing on a beautiful day this last bit came to me - From the reading I did about dysfunctional families and co-dependency (Melody Beattie et al), the only constant is the presence of DENIAL and unwillingness to face or admit things honestly i.e. There can be shocking things happening in someone's family but what defines a sick family system is when the family doesn't tell the truth about it e.g. No I don't hate your dad, I'm just having a bad hair day If people can admit to problems or, perhaps, that they are not PERFECT then things can improve Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, May 07, 1998 at 10:28:33 (EST)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Jude Subject: dysfunctional Message: Dear Jude, That is exactly the dysfunctional behavior I have dedicated a big part of my life to changing with myself and my family, me and my kids. It has been very hard at times but the pay offs have been more than well worth it! Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, May 06, 1998 at 12:27:46 (EST)
From: jean-michel Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Paula, please READ THIS Message: Hi guys I’ve been thinking a bit about those people opposing and resisting to BM during this week end. A few things came back to my mind : 1/ the 3rd (or 4th, can’t remember exactly, does it really matter ?) time BM came to France, twas in 74 I guess, he had a public conference. I was there. He received tomatoes and eggs ! I tell you he wasn’t expecting this, and was a bit pissed off I suppose. He spoke for a few minutes only, as the guys throwing eggs were quite a bunch, and security couldn’t do much about it. He didn’t show up for a while after that. What’s funny about it, is that one of these guys finally received k, and is still involved in EV ! And member (or head ?) of the PR staff here in France..... (He might be reading this - hello JM !) 2/ Premies got very pissed after M and EV a few years back in South America, might very well be Venezuela or Brazil, I’m not sure. They’ve almost started a revolution there, and BM didn’t show up there for a while. I’ve heard several rumors about it, and some comments from M himself, difficult to know what happened exactly. What happened (more or less) : M once had a program there, and he wasn’t satisfied at all with his own accommodation : indecent hotel and venues for the program, nothing fitting his standards. He got very pissed off. I assume he had a meeting with the local organizers, and told them what he wanted. As a result, EV had to rent quite expensive halls and equipment for the next conference, and the registering fees (for premies) raised to 100 or 200 US$ for each individual. (Programs used to be quite cheap before, they used to rent cheap venues, as people there were not very rich there.) As a result, the majority of premies got pissed, didn’t register for the event, I don’t know if these people came or not. They expressed their discontentment, it looks like one instructor started to give out the techniques freely, outside the EV system. In other words, they’ve started a revolution. And the BM didn’t show up there for quite a while after that. It looks like the situation is still more or less the same there, and Rawat very pissed. Anybody having details ? +++++++++++++++++++++ What would be great is that everybody hears about this stuff! And specially premies! BM is not very proud of this of course, very embarassed I guess.... I heard only rumors about it, it's very likely because of this that M doesn't have any event in La Tierra anymore, would be fun to have some facts, don't you think so ? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, May 06, 1998 at 15:41:30 (EST)
From: CD Email: None To: jean-michel Subject: La Tierra and rumours Message: >I heard only rumors about it, it's very likely because of this that M doesn't have any event in La Tierra anymore, would be fun to have some facts, don't you think so ? Remember the mud? There is a 3-day event scheduled for October 13,14,15 in Buenos Aires this year. Argentina info: [54] (1) 807-2219 I'll be checking out the 3-day Miami Beach event this weekend. Regards, CD San Diego,CA USA Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, May 06, 1998 at 16:11:33 (EST)
From: JM Email: None To: CD Subject: La Tierra del rumors Message: The facts are that the majority of premies got pissed off and don't give a dime anymore and don't care much for what they hear from EV. Are they still coming and watch videos? did they all leave BM ? What I'd like (and maybe some others) to read is details! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, May 08, 1998 at 08:38:16 (EST)
From: Bruce Email: phoenix@b024.aone.net.au To: JM Subject: To Jean Marc Message: Jean Marc, Salut. I have noticed your posts re being pissed off with EV and now this revolution business in South America. Firstly the South American stories. You must know how rumours are spread around M. I have learnt that very little spoken about M. has much resemblance to facts. Even eyewitness accounts can vary immensely. I have been at a great many events with M. around the world, especially in the last 6 or so years. I have many stories to tell about many countries. I was at the original event in La Tierra. This was one of the best I have ever attended, mainly because M. was present all day for 5 days and was very accessible to everyone. I missed the next event when it rained , but I attended an event in Buenos Aires which probably gave rise to some of your rumours. The event was in a large hall which was actually a pavilion for showing vegetables!. M. came out and said, disparagingly, 'Well, here we are in this vegetable dump'. The rest of the event was great, as usual. I later heard from some local people that some of the local honchos in EV had ignored the advice of a local premie who could have gotten a good quality hall for a similar price. M. was annoyed with the quality of the hall. I don't blaim him! Not long after that, the productions team was changed. Possibly to do with this incident, but I'm not sure. Personally, I was pleased because it seemed like time for a change anyway. I haven't heard of any special falling off of attendances in South America. Not that it would make any difference to me if there was! I don't practice K. because of other people. Actually, I'd prefer it if there were less people sometimes. As for revolution, I'm sure that revolutions are going on all the time in EV and with the premies .I have been involved in some, and heard of others. There have been times when I have been very pissed with EV, and or people in it. So? This is normal in any group of people. I have never been at any job, or involved with any organization, where people were not complaining or dissatisfied with something. Usually, the complaints are against the managers, or the 'system'. I have worked with Greanpeace which is highly autocratic, and a lot of people get pissed with this. I am a founding member of the Australian Green Party, which has participatory democracy as a basic principle. Still people get pissed off with this! I guess its natural to be a revolutionary if you have French blood. Moi aussi! I can relate to much you say, Jean-Marc, but from experience I would advise you don't let your annoyance with EV colour your experience of K. and of M. A long time ago I realized very clearly that I had to make this distinction clear. I have been in the past 25 years both on the outside and on the inside of EV . Usually a bit of both. EV is imperfect and will always be. The point is, it doesn't matter. The perfection is on the inside, and in my experience M. is not the ogre or fraud that this group would like everyone to believe. I understand its natural to begin to think like this from a distance sometimes. Seeing and speaking with him close up has dispelled my misgivings in the past, when I've had similar thoughts to some of those which you express. I would give more details but I don't trust some people here, especially Jim Heller. His posting of Marolyn's private letter above is a good example of why. Salut Bruce Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, May 08, 1998 at 08:49:51 (EST)
From: B Email: None To: Jean -Michel Subject: To Jean-Michel Message: Pardon-moi s'il te plait! Je pensait sur Marc Levitt! Hence the name confusion . Bruce Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, May 08, 1998 at 09:01:45 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Bruce Subject: Bruce, will this help? Message: Hey Bruce, Why not just assume that the letter's fake and there you go -- another rumour? Bruce, did you ever see the D.U.O. film? This was the little ten minute job where first Mishler did his gaunt, whiny yet monotonous, catatonic bureaucrat thing ( a style later copied by all Maharaji's top organizational lackeys, i.e. Dennis Merciniak, David Smith and, my personal favorite, Michael Dettmers). Then Maharaji, suited and sitting at a desk in front of this big DIVINE UNITED ORGANIZATION emblem took over. Or was it the other way around? Anyway, do you remember it? Recall how Maharaji talked about this plan to feed, shelter and illuminate the whole world? Sorry if I'm loose on the details. I'ts been a while and I understand the film's a little hard to find. Now you say: Actually, I'd prefer it if there were less people sometimes. I guess things have kind of 'drifted' a bit, huh? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, May 08, 1998 at 10:05:05 (EST)
From: Bruce Email: None To: Jim Subject: No, it doesn't help Message: Jim Yes I saw this film, and no it doesn't bother me that M. doesn't have an organization to feed and clothe the world now. He made it clear over the years why he moved away from this type of movement. I have been and still am involved in several humanitarian type groups, and I'm sure that K. helps me to participate effectively within them. Anyway, what are you doing about the needy, since it seems to bother you? As for the less people quote of mine, I was referring only to the pleasure of being in his company, which can be more difficult when there are heaps of people around. Especially arrogant Westerners who think they are the only people on the planet! Bruce Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, May 08, 1998 at 10:16:18 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Bruce Subject: Warmth Message: Bruce, May I take a moment to say that while this is all cyber and everything, and we can't really get to know each other all that well, you have one of the nicest personalities I've ever come across? Well, Bruce, back to our mutual friend. If you recall the film, please tell me, didn't you think Maharaji knew what he was talking about then? Or did you think that was just some 16 year old kid dressed like a banker performing in a high school project? See, I thought Maharaji was the Lord of the Universe and that when he said he had a plan he meant it. How about you? In any event, now, looking back, don't you think it was a bit grandiose for him to utter his 'DUO PROCLAMATION'? By the way, how did he explain why he 'moved away from this type of movement'? Did he decide to leave all that stuff to Satpal, the other Guru Maharaj Ji? Warmest regards, Yoru bro' Jim Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, May 09, 1998 at 11:46:11 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: Bruce Subject: No, it doesn't help Message: Yes I saw this film, and no it doesn't bother me that M. doesn't have an organization to feed and clothe the world now. He made it clear over the years why he moved away from this type of movement. Bruce, this is a very interesting statement. Maybe you can shed some light on how you reconcile this. As I have said, one of the main reasons I was attracted to BM's cult, and one of the reasons I stayed for as long as I did, was that I was attracted to BM's repeated professions that he was going to bring peace to the entire world and that that was the whole point of his even being here. As someone who grew up in the civil rights movement in the US and was so committed to the anti-war movement, this is what I wanted to commit my life to. [After all, there was Rennie Davis, fresh from the anti-war movement, professing that BM was the true way to bring peace to the world.] I believed BM that he was committed to not only bringing peace to the entire world, and would, but that we would also be involved in feeding clothing and taking care of basic human needs, just like he stated in the DUO film. Lots of other premies I knew were attracted for the same reason. Anyhow, you say he has 'moved away' from that sort of commitment. Silly me to believe him and waste a bunch of time of my life trying to help out in something he wasn't really committed to, despite saying he was. So, Bruce, what do you think happened? There are a few possibilities: 1. He failed utterly and gave up; 2. He just changed his mind. Either he got tired of the 'peace-on'earth' stuff and flippantly decided to do something else, or that 'peace-on-earth' stuff was just a phase he was going through; 3. He lied to us. Which is it Bruce? By the way, has he ever explained WHY he has 'moved away from that type of movement?' If he has, what did he say? If he hasn't, don't you think he should? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, May 09, 1998 at 14:23:30 (EST)
From: Carol Email: None To: JW Subject: No, it doesn't help Message: JW, I also was very attracted to M because I believed him when he said 'I Come to Bring Peace.' Very attractive to true seekers like me, fresh from anti-war demonstrations of '69 and '70. I heard him say at my first program in Montrose CO, July 1972. 'Time is coming soon when everyone will know who is God, not just know God exists.' Also, very timely to hear from one who had her consciousness jarred into awakening and yearning by the catalyst of LSD and knowing that I was one with everything and that God was everywhere. I was horrified when a premie friend mentioned later that year that this whole thing would probably turn into another religion in years to come. I totally rejected that idea. Carol Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, May 09, 1998 at 14:56:52 (EST)
From: Scott T. Email: None To: Carol Subject: Just 'another religion?' Message: Carol: I was horrified when a premie friend mentioned later that year that this whole thing would probably turn into another religion in years to come. I totally rejected that idea. Well, strictly speaking it's not 'just another religion.' It is, and has always been, a special type of scam. That is, it offered something unique and (as far as I know) genuine. How were we to figure out that Maharaji had no special claim to that 'something?' -Scott Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, May 09, 1998 at 16:13:26 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: Scott T. Subject: Just 'another religion?' Message: Well, Scott, I don't think 'religion' and 'scam' are necessarily mutually exclusive terms. I DO think M's trip is a 'religion' for a lot of the premies who are holdovers from the 70s. This is certainly contrary to what BM always said. He has always openly ridiculed established religions. But his cult is a mixture of nostalgia, a social group, inertia (for those who have been involved a long time), 'faith' and a certain 'love,' based on a prolonged 'relationship' with BM. By 'religion' I mean an ideology, or a set of principles, that the members loosely all agree to that vaguely involves 'god' or spirituality. Obviously, with BM, this is pretty darn sparse. This is combined with periodic religious revival meetings like the one currently happening in Miami. And the principles can change over time and they clearly have in BM's case. As long as the 'faith' and social ties are strong enough, some premies seem to be able to live with the contradictions and inconsistencies, as long as they don't think about it too much. I think the nostalgia for the perfect master days is pretty strong in the aging premie population. I think that's why they demanded that BM start giving darshan again and why they like those old devotional songs from the 70s sung at programs and on the BM's CD. But ytou're right, it's also a 'scam' in the sense that the only thing that has really been accomplished is to make BM rich. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, May 09, 1998 at 20:59:41 (EST)
From: Scott T. Email: None To: JW Subject: Sant Mat as religion Message: JW: I was thinking that Carol meant, by the term 'religion,' something bland and unexciting like the Presbyterian or Lutheran or Catholic religions. Baptists, or Mormons, perhaps. Something mainstream, without much 'punch.' I think EV is basically a proprietary 'cult' because the 'faith' has never been, and very likely will not be generalized to the extent that it would appeal to, and resocialize, a numerically large mainstream population. It is also, quite frankly, un-American in the sense that the values are opposed to individualism and to questioning authority. It is a 'statist' version of religion, with Maharji as the state, like Leviathan. I think that all MJ will ever be able to do with that setup is nibble at the edges a little (more during the period of 'creedal passion,' but not much). The thing that is more interesting in terms of religion is the whole phenomenon of 'sant mat' of which EV is perhaps a sect. That clearly has the status of religion, and is probably growing worldwide. David Lane has carved out a nice little academic niche watching it's development. Wish I'd thought of it. -Scott Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, May 10, 1998 at 04:09:26 (EST)
From: Jude Email: None To: Scott T. Subject: Sant Mat Message: The thing that is more interesting in terms of religion is the whole phenomenon of 'sant mat' of which EV is perhaps a sect. Does 'sant mat' refer to the inherited tradition of which the 'knowledge' techniques seem to be a part? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, May 10, 1998 at 09:34:31 (EST)
From: Scott T. Email: None To: Jude Subject: Sant Mat Message: Jude: Does 'sant mat' refer to the inherited tradition of which the 'knowledge' techniques seem to be a part? That is what I mean by the term, although it probably doesn't extend farther back into the past than Kirpal Singh. The lineages are very similar to the way magicians pass on their knowledge of how to produce illusion (either with or without the pretense that the illusions are 'real'). This suggests that at some point the two traditions had a common source, or that one developed out of the other. I still don't have reason to think that what I experience in meditation is an illusion in this sense, though some people believe it is. Frankly, I don't know what it is. It does not seem to respond to me or my feelings or thoughts in a way that I'd call 'alive' or 'sentient.' Then again, maybe I'm just not paying attention to the right things, or don't know how to interpret the experience. -Scott Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, May 10, 1998 at 10:16:07 (EST)
From: Jude Email: None To: Scott T. Subject: Sant Mat Message: Thank you for replying. I feel ignorant, and worried about asking too many questions. I was reading some posts from this April and someone pointed out that people are happy when they get what they want, or else their question is answered, and several other reasons. Compared to how complicated (or over-simplistic) I have been making things, that in itself is a bit of a revelation. To consider that happiness can come from the physical world - whereas the way I had been thinking for so long was that there are 'no answers here'. To think that perhaps a lot of it is just that I haven't been solving my own problems or getting my true needs fulfilled, rather than the answer that there are no answers 'in this world' is very helpful to me. I suppose that's why I have been seduced by the idea of the seeker finally finding truth - after trying everything else and not being happy. (like Siddharta) It's kind of a glamorous illusion to have about one's own darkness and difficulties. That doesn't mean there aren't answers beyond this physical dimension either but I love the idea of simplicity and common sense. If I can eat my mango off a mango tree, then I don't need to reach for a star when I'm hungry, do I. Then I will know the difference after I have eaten the mango, whether I am still hungry for the star. I suppose I just want to go back to kindergarten. There are mangos, there are stars, and all is well. I really appreciate you and everyone else on this Forum taking a bit of their time to reply to me and to tell me things I don't know, because the less I know the more vulnerable I am to 'believing', and then my heart gets hurt. God I'm so bad at expressing myself! Can someone tell me how to say this all in a line or two? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, May 10, 1998 at 11:00:32 (EST)
From: Katie Email: None To: Jude Subject: your questions and posts Message: Hi Jude - this is just a short reply to a few things you brought up in your post. First, I think your questions on the forum are great, and very helpful. There are a lot of people who read the forum and don't post, and you are probably helping them get there questions answered as well. Please don't feel bad about asking questions! If you read the Forum Introduction, you will see that it is definitely encouraged. Also, I think that you express yourself very well. I suppose you could spend hours rewriting your posts so that they would be as succinct as possible, but I don't think that's necessary in this type of medium. Maybe it CAN'T all be said in a line or two, and if it can, who cares if it is or not. I don't think your posts are rambling or wordy, and I guess I'm surprised that you feel that way. Your posts seem very well written to me. Take care, Katie Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, May 10, 1998 at 11:46:37 (EST)
From: Scott T. Email: None To: Jude Subject: A good 'one-liner' Message: Jude: Re: God I'm so bad at expressing myself! Can someone tell me how to say this all in a line or two? This line works pretty well, for me: 'If I can eat my mango off a mango tree, then I don't need to reach for a star when I'm hungry, do I.' -Scott Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, May 10, 1998 at 10:33:45 (EST)
From: Jude Email: None To: Scott T. Subject: Sant Mat Message: I still don't have reason to think that what I experience in meditation is an illusion in this sense, though some people believe it is. Frankly, I don't know what it is. It does not seem to respond to me or my feelings or thoughts in a way that I'd call 'alive' or 'sentient.' Additionally, you've brought up something very interesting to me here, because I never talked to other premies about my experience of knowledge. We shared about some of the 'synchronicities' or 'grace' or whatever (magical stories that could be attributed to many sources) with great delight but on the practice itself...It was very hard to discuss because premies would say it was best not to discuss it. Only 1 or 2 people shared even the slightest inkling of that they experienced. In a way I can understand this because it is very private and personal but in another way it leaves me in the dark a lot. I don't know if this is a good time or place to discuss this subject and others have referred to experiences such as bliss, light, here in this Forum which I have really appreciated. Because to me that's the guts of it, the practice itself. If I even had the slightest sense that something was gradually 'being revealed' or that my 'seed was growing' (M referred to it as a seed that needs watering) I think I would have persisted for a lot longer than I have (about 18 months - 1 hour a day - sometimes more) What you have said about 'alive' or 'sentient' is very interesting. To me it felt very impersonal, spacious yet not loving,particularly. Sometimes I did feel a kind of pleasure but that feeling seemed to come from my mind. I must say, if what I experienced is god, it does seem very strange to me. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, May 10, 1998 at 01:59:26 (EST)
From: Bruce Email: None To: JW Subject: No, it doesn't help Message: JW, I will respond to your questions, but I may not have time before this thread goes over the horizon. I'll probably post as a new thread. I have alot of things on my plate, as usual! Take care, Bruce Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, May 06, 1998 at 12:06:35 (EST)
From: Grab bag from.... Email: None To: Everyone Subject: The Book of Con (Nadeen) Message: You no longer need to be the doer. It's already handled. Forget all intentional efforts. You can't screw up. You can't lose out You are not responsible for saving the world. You will accomplish your destiny. You are enlightened at your core essence. It doesn't matter whether you are awakened or not. You can't be a victim. You have no enemies out there--only Source! You can forget about bad 'karma.' It's over and never existed! No mystery of what you will be in your next life. There is no you! You don't need to worry about the purpose of life. With infinite wisdom, Source has laid out the design of your life. The more you can just be in nonintentional efforting, the better the inner tube floats down the white water of life. Inner tubes do not require oars or a rudder. Witnessing life in choiceless awareness is the most fun, relaxed, peaceful, satisfying and exciting in every way possible in this human predicament journey. Since Source is the only doer, that let's you off the hook as God's little helper. By the end of the journey, no matter what you did or didn't do, achieved or did not achieve, the ultimate utcome is still all the same--at rest again in Source. No matter how difficult you may perceive your life situation, it is always in perfect balance of freedom to limitation. It is no better or worse than anyone else's, just different, that's all! What we have all taken so seriously all our lives is really part of a very funny joke. Gerry Please send donations to....... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, May 07, 1998 at 01:19:50 (EST)
From: K Email: None To: Grab bag from.... Subject: The Book of K . Message: Everything matters. Some things matter more than others. Consciousness is a golden key. Integration can occur. Only TRUTH truly harmonises. This existence is a spiritual evolution. The Veda's are living truths. Your own highest inspiration is a Veda. M stands for 'mirror'! Please do not send donations....... 'Money can't buy me love!' From the book of K. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, May 07, 1998 at 10:35:10 (EST)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs To: K Subject: The Book of K . Message: Dear K, Your own highest inspiration is a Veda I thought that was like a resume! Just kidding. Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, May 07, 1998 at 14:34:08 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: K Subject: The Book of Madonna Message: From the Book of Madonna: Nothing really matters -- love is all you need I think I have learned more from Madonna's lyrics that I ever learned from 'The Book of K.' Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, May 07, 1998 at 15:26:53 (EST)
From: John Email: None To: K Subject: The book of baloney Message: 'Everything matters. Some things matter more than others.' Gimme a break, please!! Would you like to explain that or do you only speak in sound bites of 6 words or less? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, May 07, 1998 at 17:55:43 (EST)
From: Gerry Email: None To: John Subject: The book of baloney Message: baloney? BALONEY? HOW DARE YOU??? Sorry, just practicing my new html skills Robyn taught me. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, May 06, 1998 at 11:21:37 (EST)
From: Jude Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Breaking Free Message: To the person who recently asked for advice about helping her premie husband... I recall answering you with my own personal opinon relating to drug interventions etc but I recently re-read the 'Helpline' in the Breaking Free area and found some advice I thought was a lot more appropriate and helpful than what I rambled on about (it's by Bob Mishler). I have been thinking about how I am going to deal with all this because there are some people close to me who are really devout and last time they saw me so was I...sort of. It feels very empowering to me to consider that what I have been feeling with knowledge actually belongs to me and is not given by Maharaji. I have experienced beauty and sometimes feelings of exquisite joy listening to M and I want to continue to have those - without hooks. Someone should not say they are not charging for something - because it belongs and is inside of you - and then charge you in other ways. If the money was only for support of the organisation I could understand but on reflection it does seem like a big of a con job - I don't want your money but I'll have it anyway (for example) This whole Forum is like sinking the Titanic isn't it? I do feel care for Prem Rawat as a human being - he has given a lot to me. Perhaps he, too is trapped by his own creation. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, May 06, 1998 at 09:35:58 (EST)
From: Jude Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Excerpts Query Message: This query relates to the excerpts If anyone receives this name and practices it regularly, he will have nothing more to do by way of devotion. Just by meditating on that Name, he will reach the highest stages of devotion. All spiritual disciplines are included in the remembrance of the Name. A devotees know that nothing is more powerful than remembering the Name. If I am to understand this correctly he is referring to what I was taught as the third technique? If this is so very important why was this technique been changed? When I read the description of the techniques (elsewhere in this site) I noticed it was different (similar but different). I hadn't known about the spiritual lineage and this makes it seem more strange to change something handed down like that. I certainly intend no disrespect to M's father at all, by the way and in fact I respect him by asking this question. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, May 06, 1998 at 15:32:26 (EST)
From: CD Email: None To: Jude Subject: K still the same Message: >If this is so very important why was this technique been changed? When I read the description of the techniques (elsewhere in this site) I noticed it was different (similar but different). K is still the same as when I went to a K session in London in 1972. The fundamentals of what M teaches have not changed at all. His tie and some of the stories are different. Peoples ideas of what K is change. Rumours grow and spread. Rembember, practicing K is becoming quiet enough to experience your own self (reflection). The bottom line is that K is something to be tried. K is practical, not a theory. To judge the fruits of a seed: plant it, water it and have some patience. CD Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, May 06, 1998 at 16:05:25 (EST)
From: Gerry Email: None To: CD Subject: K still the same Message: CD, If we are going to get into cliches here, how about this one: Gag me with a spoon! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, May 06, 1998 at 17:33:11 (EST)
From: Gerry Email: None To: CD Subject: K still the same Message: Guess my high school edukashun is showing again, sorry. But it pisses me off that premies still throw around these poisonous little'hooks' to ensnare the needy and vulnerable in what is basically a financial scam and power trip for the BM. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, May 06, 1998 at 18:18:01 (EST)
From: CD Email: None To: Gerry Subject: K still the same Message: >But it pisses me off that premies still throw around these poisonous little'hooks' to ensnare the needy and vulnerable in what is basically a financial scam and power trip for the BM. Oh really? Thats your opinion. Fine! I think you are dead wrong. Thats the way it goes. Gag yourself - g! Your statement that what I wrote was a 'poisonous hook' is pure FUD. What I write is the way I see it. I have had very positive experiences from my association with K and M. Are there problems? Sure. I am going to Miami tommorrow because I intend to learn more and celebrate. Don't be too pissed. Thats for the English. Have fun, CD Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, May 06, 1998 at 18:32:03 (EST)
From: Gerry Email: None To: CD Subject: Hints for safe darshan Message: Jees...and I thought I wouldn't even warrant a response... Gag yourself - g! What's the 'g' thing mean. I've seen it before. Short hand for 'gee' maybe? ( Keep it simple, remember my HS ed.) And FUD? Can you explain that one? Like in Elmer Fud? Sorry, but most my references in life come from cartoon characters--guess that's what attracted me to the BM in the first place. Have fun in Miami and if you get to suck the lotus toes, remember to use an oral dam. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, May 06, 1998 at 20:15:06 (EST)
From: Selena Email: None To: Gerry Subject: Hints for safe darshan Message: Oh good. Now I get to imagine a blend: Elmer Fud speaking to the thirsty with an east Indian accent. Good one Gerry, you helped me stop obsessing on work at least! Thanks. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, May 06, 1998 at 20:22:07 (EST)
From: Mickey the Pharisee Email: mgdbach@ziplink.net To: Selena Subject: Hints for safe darshan Message: Be vewy vewy kuwiet, weuh on Howy Name! ehehehehehehehe Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, May 07, 1998 at 11:14:14 (EST)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Mickey the Pharisee Subject: Hints for safe darshan Message: Dear Micheal, This little group of ditties has me laughing out loud here at work, what the hell, they already think I am a strange one! There are a group of people that live in this area called (slang) Towanda Pools, because one of the main last names in this group is Vanderpool. They are decendents of the French who came here to build a place for Marie Antoinette (sp?), a safe haven. I don't think she ever came here although I'm not sure. These French settlers had children with the local Indians and maybe blacks. None of those groups are dumb and I don't remember the whole story as I went to high school in NJ but they teach this in history classes here. These people are becoming more integrated in the general population but when I was first here in 1972 they lived in hovels in one area of the town. When I came back in 1979 things weren't much improved. They also had their own language or accent and were almost impossible to understand, sounding like a mumbling Elmer Fud, see the whole connection now! Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, May 07, 1998 at 11:06:39 (EST)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs To: Gerry Subject: Hints for safe darshan Message: Dear Gerry, Thanks for the wonderful laugh. Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, May 07, 1998 at 11:09:31 (EST)
From: Gerry Email: None To: Robyn Subject: Hints for safe darshan Message: Good morning Robyn, I almost put a warning label on that one, just for you and your cowboy. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, May 07, 1998 at 11:15:32 (EST)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs To: Gerry Subject: Hints for safe darshan Message: Dear Gerry, Didn't even think of that! I guess I've been neglecting Ray, I'll have to make it up to him... Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, May 06, 1998 at 16:31:29 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: CD Subject: Fruit into nuts Message: Chris, Am I right to assume that you present yourself as an example of what Knowledge does to someone? If everyone in the world had Knowledge would they all avoid discussion? Would everybody learn to speak in cliched haiku? What if someone didn't quite understand somebody else? Would the Knowledge teach them it doesn't matter, no one's got anything to say anyway? Would the Knowledge teach you to affect the speech of the mildly disadvantaged? By the way, why didn't you answer my ppost to you about the new-age 'heart and mind' theory? I've asked you twice now. You said: Remember, the problem is when too many priorities are biased towards the 'mind' or the 'heart'. A balanced combination of the strengths of both offers the fullest pleasure of life to all of us. To which I replied: Chris, do you recall when you first 'learnt' of this classic new-age dichotomy, the 'heart' and 'mind'? Do you know where it comes from? Are you sure it's real and not just notion some people like to toss around? One thing's certain: true or not, the doctrine is used to stifle curiosity, thought and expresion. What an ingenious device -- a 'spiritual' authority confronted with discomfiting facts or questions can look his critic in the eye and admonish them for being too 'mind-oriented'. If he's lucky, the trick works and the questions are dropped. Tell me you haven't seen this evasive move before. Of course you have. In the 'real' world, there aren't too many ways to deal with a question. You either answer it or you don't. In new age circles though, where thinking itself is suspect and often ridiculed, if you don't like a question you can just go straight for the 'sincerlty' or 'heart' or whatever of the questioner. Now I'm not suggesting for a moment, Chris, that you would use this 'heart/mind' thing this way. Not intentionally, anyway. But I do ask you Chris if you haven't seen Maharaji use the maneouvre once or twice? Indeed, haven't you come to expect just that from Maharaji? I sure have. Here's a little thought experiment -- imagine someone addressing Maharaji at a program one day and asking him one of the countless embarrassing questions you and I both know he'd rather not deal with. Let's say this guy or girl asks Maharaji about the many times he called himself Supreme Lord in Human Form. Assuming the questioner didn't get immediately ushered out of the hall, do you think Maharaji would actually deal straight up with the question? Or do you think that, instead, he'd start picking away at the guy's 'sincerity' (i.e. 'heart' quotient)? It would be easy to say you have no idea Chris, but I'm not askign if you know for sure. I'm just asking you to speculate freely and honestly given all that you've experienced to date. My experience of Maharaji tells me that he would most definitely try to avoid the question on that basis. What do you think? By the way, how did you feel when you learned that Satpal doesn't tell his devotees that he's got two other brothers and that, in fact, he used to worship one as the Lord for about eight years before he decided to claim the guruship himself? Honestly, Chris, how did that affect you? And then this, Chris -- let's say you were conversant with one of Satpal's followers, like the good-natured, intelligent, mature devotee I called in England. He speaks of HIS Guru Maharaj Ji just like premies speak of their Maharaji. In his case, he did know that there were two other brothers but the story he got was that somehow Satpal had delegated propogation in the west to his kid brother for a while. He said he wasn't interested in history so much. Indeed he called it 'other peoples' problems'. What would you say to him, Chris? Where would the heart and mind enter into it, if at all? How about the truth? What would you say to him? I've been conversing with the young guy in Tanzania who put up the Satpal page. What would you say to him? He tells me that not only is the official history of Satpal exactly as he's posted it (he simply lifted the story from the intro to Hans Yog Prakash), but that even informally he's been lead to believe that there were only two sons, not four. He's pretty confused by all this, needless to say. What would you tell him? Is there something wrong with my questions? Don't you understand them? Are they too trivial or complicated? What's up? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, May 06, 1998 at 17:40:07 (EST)
From: CD Email: None To: Jim Subject: the Fruit is good Message: >Am I right to assume that you present yourself as an example of what Knowledge does to someone? If everyone in the world had Knowledge would they all avoid discussion? Wrong again! Your logic and rules of debate do not rule. Cut the crap. You present yourself as a pompous, inconsiderate jerk. >What if someone didn't quite understand somebody else? Would the Knowledge teach them it doesn't matter, no one's got anything to say anyway? Understand what? You still can't teach somebody a simple flavor and it doesn't matter. That doesn't preclude people from trying the fruits and sharing some dicsussion. Like Clint said, a mans got to know his limits. You have to know the respective realms of the mind (logic) and the heart (love). >Chris, do you recall when you first 'learnt' of this classic new-age dichotomy, the 'heart' and 'mind'? Do you know where it comes from? Are you sure it's real and not just notion some people like to toss around? When I was young I was the tops in math at my school and ran into notions such as infinity in a deep way. I also had a severe accident with unusual associated experiences.. This combination caused me to look at my existence in a different way. >Let's say this guy or girl asks Maharaji about the many times he called himself Supreme Lord in Human Form. Assuming the questioner didn't get immediately ushered out of the hall, do you think Maharaji would actually deal straight up with the question? This question has been asked many many times before in public and given a direct answer. Most of the issues you bring up have been around since I can remember back in 1972. >One thing's certain: true or not, the doctrine is used to stifle curiosity, thought and expresion. Many people do use doctrines for the purpose you have stated. That is not my way. I use ideas to accomplish things and for my enjoyment. I encourage people to educate themselves and take advantage of their ability to think. But, don't fall into the trap of regarding your ideas as the ultimate. We all do fall into the trap and this becomes the source of the problems people have coexisting in this world and also the source of judgement and hatred. I do not see M stifling curiousity, thought or expression. He certainly acknowledges the importance of the mind but does focus his efforts on the realm of the heart. M has said since 72 to look inside and find the answer there. When you are able to look inside and have the gift of the mind becoming quiet, what is there to experience is only what really exists. When the ripples stop on the lake you only have your true reflection to look at. The mind is fantastic, but there is a time and place for the reflective inner experience, peace and love. Cheers, CD Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, May 06, 1998 at 18:00:09 (EST)
From: Gerry Email: None To: CD Subject: Jim, can I say it this time? Message: CD: 'You present yourself as a pompous, inconsiderate jerk.' I know you are but what am I? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, May 06, 1998 at 18:34:55 (EST)
From: CD Email: None To: Gerry Subject: we are not words Message: I am reluctant to have to admit that you are a fellow human being. If you want to get really pissed drink Elephant Beer! Truckin, CD Christiana weg (?sp) - Carlsberg Brewery - Copenhagen - 1972 Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, May 06, 1998 at 18:48:20 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: CD Subject: Waxed fruit Message: Chris, You've got some serious problems, bud. Anyone who can vent so furiously but then snap back into that fixed forced smile is either being paid a whole lot of money to kiss ass OR is trying to live up to some hopelessly fake self-image. You ARE an example of Maharaji's handiwork, Chris. I wonder how you come across to people considering leaving or joining the guru. What do you think? Really, Chris, how do you think people find you? You say: I use ideas to accomplish things and for my enjoyment. I encourage people to educate themselves and take advantage of their ability to think. Typical vapidity, isn't it? How should people take adavantage of their minds, Chris? Can't you see that you'll never get away with your empty statements here? Never? But then there's Chris the teacher: But, don't fall into the trap of regarding your ideas as the ultimate. Is that anything like what you do with your bizarre 'infinity' thing, an idea so obscure that I don't think even you could state it plainly if you wanted to? You must admit, Chris, you seem to graap your little formula (Infinity = Never Having to Really Think About Anything Because We'll Never Understand Anyway)a little tightly. Are you willing to reconsider that idea? And what are you thinking of when you say: I do not see M stifling curiousity, thought or expression. Is this a joke or something? Soon, Chris, you're going to see a letter from Marolyn posted here. In it, you'll notice one thing pretty clearly (besides the fact that she calls non-practising premies 'assholes' and that Maharaji doesn't like Dr. John Horton for a number of reasons). What you'll see is that the only way she can even think of surviving as a premie is to jettison all curiosity, narrow her thoughts and stifle her expression. Want to see the letter? No? See what I mean? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, May 06, 1998 at 19:04:54 (EST)
From: CD Email: None To: Jim Subject: beach fruit Message: >You've got some serious problems, bud. Anyone who can vent so furiously but then snap back into that fixed forced smile is either being paid a whole lot of money to kiss ass OR is trying to live up to some hopelessly fake self-image. The only problem I have right now is deciding wether to go home and take a nice short walk on the beach to the Lahaina. A good place to practice debating about rumours - g! 'Shirts, shoes and brains are strictly optional.' > I wonder how you come across to people considering leaving or joining the guru. What do you think? I have had some people say they want to beat me up and many who like me a lot. I can't please everybody. Not even you! 'Are you experienced?' Truckin to Miami 98, CD Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, May 06, 1998 at 23:03:30 (EST)
From: Scott T. Email: None To: CD Subject: the Fruit is good Message: Chris: I also had a severe accident with unusual associated experiences.. God Chris, that's just too provocative to pass up! In first grade I used to jump off the top landing in the cloakroom onto my head 'with unusual associated experiences.' No permanent damage, but I guess I know what you're talking about. We could be kindred spirits after all! -Scott Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, May 06, 1998 at 17:06:21 (EST)
From: Scott T. Email: None To: CD Subject: K still the same Message: CD: To judge the fruits of a seed: plant it, water it and have some patience. I completely misread that statement as: 'To judge the fruits of a seed: plant it, water it and have some potatoes.' And was all set to ask if you meant chips or au gratin. Guess it shows how the mind can play tricks. There is a great spoof of A Course in Miracles out entitled A Course in Marigolds that is basically a book on gardening. It looks identical to ACIM, with the gold lettering on dark blue background, etc. Very funny. -Scott Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, May 06, 1998 at 17:52:08 (EST)
From: CD Email: None To: Scott T. Subject: K still the same Message: >And was all set to ask if you meant chips or au gratin. Guess it shows how the mind can play tricks. There is a great spoof of A Course in Miracles out entitled A Course in Marigolds that is basically a book on gardening. Scott, Au Gratin with lots of onions. You studied political campaigns. I'm sure you came across many uses of subtle mind games. I consider thinking a great gift to be fully used. I also know that it has its limits and also can be misused. Marigolds are Miracles. So are we! Cheers, CD Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, May 06, 1998 at 23:21:51 (EST)
From: Scott T. Email: None To: CD Subject: K still the same Message: Chris: Marigolds are Miracles. So are we! That statement is greased nonsense. Marigolds are not miracles according to ACIM, bucause they are part of the natural order. Miracles, by definition, change the order and priority of things. They speed up evolution and shrink time. They make mandatory actions and tasks unnecessary or redundant. In short, miracles (whether they exist or not) are something specific, that have practical significance. That's the whole point. -Scott Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, May 06, 1998 at 20:24:26 (EST)
From: Selena Email: None To: Scott T. Subject: K still has the same farmer Message: and don't forget Scott, if you need any tips on nurturing that seedling, there's that video of M riding around on a tractor, implying that he is the true nurturer, of course he never says that directly in the video, it's all about 'the' master and 'this' experience. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, May 07, 1998 at 11:24:30 (EST)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs To: Selena Subject: K still has the same farmer Message: Dear Selena, You make me want to do laundry! Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, May 06, 1998 at 18:24:57 (EST)
From: Still Crazy Email: None To: CD Subject: K still the same Message: K is still the same as when I went to a K session in London in 1972. 'K' may still be the same (in fact, from one viewpoint, K may be eternal), but the techniques are not. M revamped them in either 1976 or 1977. His comment, 'I don't want any of my premis ever to feel pain while they are meditating.' Particularly the Light technique was modified. I was taught these 'new' techniques by an instructor named Eliott (I can't remember her last name). M sent his instructors all around the U.S. at least, demonstrating the new ones, which are also the ones M was demonstrating in the Knowledge Review video that I saw in 1996. -Still Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, May 06, 1998 at 18:43:48 (EST)
From: CD Email: None To: Still Crazy Subject: K still the same Message: >'K' may still be the same (in fact, from one viewpoint, K may be eternal), but the techniques are not. M revamped them in either 1976 or 1977. His comment, 'I don't want any of my premis ever to feel pain while they are meditating.' You have got to be kidding - g! Now, what was your name again? CD played guitar in the London tubes, K session, India trip - 1972 on the plane to Miami tommorrow - 1998 Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, May 06, 1998 at 18:51:57 (EST)
From: Still Crazy Email: None To: CD Subject: K still the same Message: CD, You have made comments about my anonymity in almost every reply you've made to one of my posts. Regardless of your point, you will not learn my name, at least not until I choose to reveal it. Hassling me about it will not bring the day closer. And no, I'm definitely not kidding. As you had K in 1876/77, the only reason I can come up with that you didn't hear this is that you were in another country. M made a big deal about it, and sent all his instructors on a tour of the U.S. to demonstrate the 'new' techniques. Do you deny this? -Still Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, May 06, 1998 at 19:16:25 (EST)
From: CD Email: None To: Still Crazy Subject: K still the same Message: I went to a K session in 1972 and have been to quite a few K reviews over the years including 2 2-day events at the Palm Desert Marriott in back-to-back years. These were regional events held across the country to go over issues people had with K and present extended K reviews. I stick by what I wrote. What you are writing about is much ado about nothing. The fundamentals of K are solid and have been consistent over the years. Your desire to be anonymous speaks for itself. Have you met me in the past? This isn't 'Mad John' is it? Regards, CD Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, May 06, 1998 at 19:34:57 (EST)
From: Still Crazy Email: None To: CD Subject: K still the same Message: I stick by what I wrote. But you also don't deny what I wrote, even when I specifically challenged you to do so. What you are writing about is much ado about nothing. CD, with all your mathematical training, I bet you know what argumentum reductio ad absurdem means. The fundamentals of K are solid and have been consistent over the years. Ah, so now we're talking about 'the fundamentals' of K. Not, as you said in your original post, K is still the same as when I went to a K session in London in 1972. It's really only the fundamentals that are still the same, isn't that right, CD? The techniques have changed, but the 'fundamentals' are still the same. I never claimed this change was a big deal, and I'm not making a big deal about it. Jude asked why the techniques he learned in his K session were different than the ones described on this site. I answered him. Then you jumped in with your weasel words, and caused me to post three or four more times about it. Who's making a big deal here, CD? Your desire to be anonymous speaks for itself. As does your unwillingness to grant me this right. Have you met me in the past? Not to my knowledge -- if I have, I never knew your name. This isn't 'Mad John' is it? I have never posted to this Forum under any other name besides Still Crazy, although I have lurked on a.s.e-c and a.c.m for over a year. -Still Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, May 07, 1998 at 11:30:08 (EST)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs To: Still Crazy Subject: K still the same Message: Dear Still, I just wrote about this in another thread, or maybe here, can't seem to find it now, maybe it was a dream. Anyway I remember the same but didn't go to see the modifications, I was begining to doubt and although I was curious I didn't think it was right for me to go. I wonder if you would mention what the difference was. If is was just not pressing your eyes as hard I never did that anyway. Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, May 07, 1998 at 11:03:54 (EST)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: CD Subject: K still the same Message: Dear CD, I am just starting this thread so maybe others have already said this but during my transitional time betweeen premie and ex there were trainings, I'm not sure what they were called, whose intent it was to show the new improvements to the K techniques. I remember feeling like I really had no right to sing on for one of these sessions but was always curious as to their content. Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, May 06, 1998 at 17:00:58 (EST)
From: Katie Email: petkat@mail.trib.net To: Jude Subject: The Holy Name Message: He IS talking about the Word or Holy Name, which is nowadays known as the third technique. I received knowledge in 1972 - same year as CD by the way. In my knowledge session the mahatma (initator) told us to meditate on the vibration behind our breath. Other people in other knowledge sessions were taught to meditate on the words SO HUM (or SO HUNG), SO on the inhale, HUM on the exhale. I am not sure what is taught nowadays - just meditating on the breath, maybe? Another thing that we were supposed to do when I was a premie was to make an effort to remember Holy Name (meditate on the Word) constantly. This is not taught any more, to my understanding anyway. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, May 06, 1998 at 18:38:23 (EST)
From: Still Crazy Email: None To: Katie Subject: The Holy Name Message: Another thing that we were supposed to do when I was a premie was to make an effort to remember Holy Name (meditate on the Word) constantly. This is not taught any more, to my understanding anyway. Remember M's 'Five Commandments?' Constantly meditate and remember the Holy Name. Always have faith in God. Never delay in attending satsang. Never put off until tomorrow what you can do today. I can't even remember the other one. Does anyone remember when these oh-so-important commandments went away? Another thing that's changed is the 'promises' (in my K session they were 'vows') that premis take to M: Give K a fair chance in your life (what this means is that if you don't meditate for a minimum of 1 hr in the morning and 1 hr in the evening, 15 mins per technique, then don't go complaining to M when it doesn't 'work'). Keep in touch (he used to say that this meant coming to live programs and not just video events, but I'm not sure what he says now). Don't reveal the techniques. I don't exactly remember what the ones in 1972 were, but I know 'See M at least once a year' was one. 'Don't reveal the techniques' was one. 'Obey M's 5 commandments' was one. Were there others? -Still Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, May 06, 1998 at 18:43:57 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: Still Crazy Subject: The Holy Name Message: The other commandment was: 'Never leave room for doubt in your mind.' In other words, do not think, at least don't think about or evaluate in any way, BM or knowledge, and if you do, meditate and/or repress those doubts (aka thoughts). This is the essence of a cult -- no tolerance for doubting the simple solution given by the master. I frankly don't recall any vows in my knowledge session back in 1973. I do recall that I was required to repeat a prayer, while pranaming, saying that I dedicated my entire life to BM. I was a bit shocked by that at the time, but I figured, I had come that far, and I felt special that I was 'chosen' when a bunch of other people either freaked and left or were rejected by the mahatma. I don't know when the commandments went away. They were still there when I left in 1983. At some point BM reduced the amount of time spent in 'formal' meditation. When did he do that, and did he say why? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, May 06, 1998 at 20:13:28 (EST)
From: eb Email: None To: JW Subject: The Commandments Message: I still have a business card of Maharaji's that has his picture on the front and an autograph saying, 'I love you. Sant Ji Maharaj.' The 5 commandments are listed on the back. Can't remember when I got it--sometime in the early 80's, I think. eb Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, May 06, 1998 at 20:44:32 (EST)
From: Selena Email: None To: JW Subject: The Holy Name Message: I find that one the most insidious. Never doubt. That takes care of everything in one fell swoop. As you said, never think, never question.. and if you voice your concerns other premies have a handy catch phase, 'you are experiencing doubt' - kind of like the way the current premies use the 'negative' word these days when they are at a loss for any other explanation. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, May 07, 1998 at 11:38:43 (EST)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs To: JW Subject: The Holy Name Message: Dear JW, I forgot all about having to say that prayer to dedicate your life to BM. I certainly was shocking to me at that moment but I was there already and I did it kind of the same way I accepted 2 marraige proposals in my past, saying yes but knowing it would never happen because of my feelings. Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, May 07, 1998 at 15:18:52 (EST)
From: VP Email: None To: Robyn Subject: A Vow to Maharaji Message: Robyn, Somehow my mother found out about this 'prayer' or 'vow' to M during the K session. Someone also told her that you had to kiss M's feet to receive knowledge (like he was present in each session-haha!) I was appalled when she told me about this. She asked me, are you really prepared to say and do that and MEAN it? What a jolt. I knew that I couldn't do that and so I decided against receiving K and I didn't look back...for a long while anyway. VP Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, May 06, 1998 at 18:55:40 (EST)
From: Gerry Email: None To: Still Crazy Subject: The Holy Name Message: Wasn't it 'Empty your pockets unto the lord'? Or was it 'Abandon your family and friends'? one of those two anyway. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, May 06, 1998 at 19:06:26 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: Gerry Subject: The Holy Name Message: Gerry, your're probably right. But if you followed the other commandements, those happened automatically. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, May 06, 1998 at 19:00:02 (EST)
From: Jude Email: None To: Katie Subject: The Holy Name Message: In fact he referred to 'finding out' that some people were doing it all the time, while they were walking, driving etc and he told them all to stop doing it - and only to do it with the other techniques (in one session for minimum 1 hour each day). That's what surprises me. I always had the impression from many things he & others said that he kind of inherited an ancient method. We were lucky he has changed things, eg one master used to wander around and just give K to selected people he met on his travels (I actually liked the mystical sound of that) to continue - that fortunately he has changed much of what surrounded it because he didn't want anything to stop people receiving K - eg religion, vegetarian. 'They' (the mahatmas?) used to have a lot of conditions but know there are none except you are sincere and have listened long enough to understand (and a few little others as discussed elsewhere in the Forum) Then he got rid of those silly Mahatmas, too after realising the kind of stuff they were saying to people I mean, maybe he really means this - that's what's scary, too. Sometimes when people don't see themselves as being dishonest their stories can seem true. my impression all along was he has been a reformer and a simplifier of knowledge. (I mean I could have misunderstood) As to the difference in the technique - I will attempt to email you (hope it works!). (Yes - it is different to how you describe it). Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, May 06, 1998 at 19:53:26 (EST)
From: Katie Email: petkat@mail.trib.net To: Jude Subject: Techniques on site Message: Dear Jude - I did get your e-mail, and have never heard that explanation of the 'third technique' before. I think that your initiator was probably using that analogy to help you understand what it should feel like. It's actually a pretty good way of explaining it. It used to be that all the mahatmas/initiators would have a slightly different way of explaining the techniques. The techniques on the site were written up by a former initiator/instructor who left M's organization very recently - therefore they should be current (Still Crazy - you can check). We used to have some outrageous pictures of one of our former webmasters doing the 'old' versions of the techniques. I think Brian is going to put them back up when he gets around to renovating that page. By the way, I cannot believe that M didn't know from the beginning that premies were trying to remember Holy Name (practice third technique) with every breath they took. I think he even spoke about it in his talks. It was certainly held up by many respected premies and initiators as the ideal to strive for. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, May 06, 1998 at 20:05:32 (EST)
From: Jude Email: None To: Katie Subject: Techniques on site Message: 1. I received knowledge from Maharaji 2. He definitely made it sound like it was a silly idea of theirs. Im absolutely sure he made it sound like he heard they were doing this and basically was telling them it didn't work that way - it really meant they were not practicing at all I can almost quote from memory The whole context of it was - don't do this - it wasn't - I am now correcting you on something I previously told you to do Or are you saying the Mahatmas told you to practice it all the time but that M never did? (in that case there is still the benefit of the doubt - that they were teaching things M didn't agree with) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, May 06, 1998 at 20:27:15 (EST)
From: Katie Email: None To: Jude Subject: constantly remember holy name? Message: Hi Jude - I don't know if Maharaji talked about it in satsang or not (it's hard for me to recall!). Also, premies talked about it constantly in satsang - that's why I find it difficult to believe that M 'never knew' they were doing that. After all, he MARRIED a premie, who started out as just a lowly premie like the rest of us. Maybe someone else can shed some light on this subject - that's why I put in in the subject column. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, May 06, 1998 at 20:36:29 (EST)
From: Katie Email: None To: Jude Subject: P.S. to Jude Message: Hi Jude - Now that I think about it - a lot of the Indian mahatmas had been disciples of Guru Maharaji's father (who was supposedly the perfect master before him). So they were giving knowledge the way that they were taught by M's father, I guess. I just think it's weird that Maharaji would imply that the way his father taught it was wrong. Personally, I think that M is a revisionist who, as far as I know, has never taken personal responsibility for any mistakes he made in the past. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, May 07, 1998 at 11:21:38 (EST)
From: Scott T. Email: None To: Katie Subject: constantly remember holy name? Message: Katie, Jude et al: One of the phrases I recall from that era went: 'At the end of every forget... remember.' It's sort of zen-like on one hand, but on the other its pretty meaningless. Sounds like something Chevy Chase would say. -Scott Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, May 07, 1998 at 13:40:15 (EST)
From: Jude Email: None To: Scott T. Subject: constantly remember holy name? Message: I remember listening to a Tibettan (sp?) Lama (sp?) after my dad died, on the subject death and dying. He talked about the Bardos, which I took home a copy of. They were quite beautiful really, but the content is sort of like..may I never forget, may I not waste my life in unconsciousness, may I always strive (to realise god?) The people there believed that on dying one should propel oneself into the arms of Buddha, doing a kind of holy somersault. I mean no disrespect but isn't the separation the illusion? If re-uniting with my maker means I have to consciously do the re-uniting that would mean it was me who had split in the first place. Maybe the whole secret is to remember I am never separate from my maker (whatever it is). How could I be? Why should I have to do strange practices to re-connect? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, May 07, 1998 at 13:54:37 (EST)
From: Gerry Email: None To: Jude Subject: Jude gets a gold star Message: Jude: 'I mean no disrespect but isn't the separation the illusion? If re-uniting with my maker means I have to consciously do the re-uniting that would mean it was me who had split in the first place. Maybe the whole secret is to remember I am never separate from my maker (whatever it is). How could I be? Why should I have to do strange practices to re-connect?' Exactamente, dear Jude (IMHO) Bingo Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, May 07, 1998 at 21:59:24 (EST)
From: Scott T. Email: None To: Jude Subject: The Bardos Message: Jude: The people there believed that on dying one should propel oneself into the arms of Buddha, doing a kind of holy somersault. That is uncanny. I had an OBE in the late 60s that I still remember. I was propelled out of my body into this intense ocean of something like a cross between awareness and energy and laughter, going end over end with complete abandon. Then I sobered up and... ZIP... right back in the old bod again. It shook me up for years afterward, like having been through a Tornado. If that experience was an illusion created by my brain's electrochemistry then so is all of this. No... this is all less real than that was. I don't want to talk about it anymore. -Scott Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, May 07, 1998 at 20:55:39 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: Jude Subject: Techniques on site Message: Jude, just to be clear. Maharaji for years said to meditate constantly. I personally heard him say it many times. He did that for the entire time I was a premie, from 1973 to 1983, at least. Throughout that period, in fact, he also had, as one of his five commandments, that you should 'constantly meditate and remember holy name.' As I think you know, 'holy name' was what the 'word' technique (is it number 3 now?) used to be called. So, that is a definite changefrom what BM used to preach if he is now sayint notto meditate constantly. Hope this makes sense. Thanks. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, May 06, 1998 at 22:53:19 (EST)
From: Still Crazy Email: None To: Katie Subject: Techniques on site Message: The techniques on the site were written up by a former initiator/instructor who left M's organization very recently - therefore they should be current (Still Crazy - you can check). Yes, those are definitely the techniques as revealed in the video, although I didn't remember the 3rd technique being so sparse (they are also the 'new' ones revealed by travelling instructors i 1977 or so). By the way, I _cannot_ believe that M didn't know from the beginning that premies were trying to remember Holy Name (practice third technique) with every breath they took. I think he even spoke about it in his talks. He most definitely did. In some of his earliest satsangs, before he learned to speak American very well, he said, ``This is the only meditation you can meditate twenty-*four* hours.'' It was certainly held up by many respected premies and initiators as the ideal to strive for. I would have to say that I still strive for it, 'ticket to mental illness' notwithstanding. -Still Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, May 06, 1998 at 22:54:58 (EST)
From: Still Crazy Email: None To: Still Crazy Subject: Techniques on site Message: Sorry, forgot to say, many people here know that these were definitely not the techniques as they were revealed in 1972 (except perhaps 'fundamentally' ;) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, May 07, 1998 at 11:48:07 (EST)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs To: Katie Subject: Techniques on site Message: Dear Katie, I don't understand why he said to stop meditating on the word all day, and wasn't it the same with nectar. I didn't get very far with nectar so I didn't try that beyong formal meditation but I still will meditate on my breath at any time of day if I feel the need to relax. It was hard to imagine being able to do it while reading, etc but really became very easy. Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, May 06, 1998 at 23:37:10 (EST)
From: Scott T. Email: None To: Katie Subject: The Chad Mitchel Technique Message: Katie: Other people in other knowledge sessions were taught to meditate on the words SO HUM (or SO HUNG), SO on the inhale, HUM on the exhale. This finally clears up why I never experienced Holy Name in meditation. We were taught to meditate on the lyrics to the song 'Tom Dooley' by the Chad Mitchel Trio. 'Soooooo.... hang down your head Tom... Dooooley. Hang down you head and cry. Hang down your head Tom... Dooooley. Poor boy you're bound to die...' I kept forgetting the words and so never got around to meditating on the breath. -Scott Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, May 08, 1998 at 00:04:13 (EST)
From: John Email: None To: Scott T. Subject: The Kingston Trio!! Message: Oh Scott,you poor guy! You should have been listening to The Kingston Trio do the song. They did it the best by far, and I am sure it would have inspired you to meditate!! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, May 06, 1998 at 18:20:12 (EST)
From: Still Crazy Email: None To: Jude Subject: Excerpts Query Message: Jude, Yes, it is the 3rd technique. M changed all the techniques slightly in either 1976 or 1977, particularly the Light Technique (1st technique). I haven't looked at the ones on the site, but they are probably the ones M was teaching before this time, the ones that are shown in the LOTU show. -Still Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, May 06, 1998 at 18:46:13 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: Still Crazy Subject: Excerpts Query Message: Still, are you sure about that? I don't recall the techniques changing prior to my leaving in 1983. On second thought, the light technique might have become less like the jaws of death to the eyes and made more 'gentle,' but I don't recall any of the other techniques changing. Are you sure it wasn't later than 1976 or 1977? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, May 06, 1998 at 18:56:32 (EST)
From: Still Crazy Email: None To: JW Subject: Excerpts Query Message: I'm certain. The other techniques changed so minimally that you probably don't remember. See my replies to CD elsewhere in this thread. -Still Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, May 06, 1998 at 19:27:32 (EST)
From: VP Email: None To: Still Crazy Subject: Nectar changing? Message: Still, Didn't the tongue into the nasal passage change to relaxing and tasting what you taste? (or something close to that) Where is Mr. Ex when we need him? Anonymously, VP Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, May 06, 1998 at 19:31:06 (EST)
From: Jude Email: None To: VP Subject: Nectar changing? Message: Didn't the tongue into the nasal passage change to relaxing and tasting what you taste? Could you please explain what that was? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, May 06, 1998 at 19:34:49 (EST)
From: can't own this one Email: None To: Jude Subject: Nectar changing? Message: If you think it's funny when you kiss your honey with a runny nose--well it'snot. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, May 06, 1998 at 19:51:59 (EST)
From: VP Email: None To: Jude Subject: Nectar- a survey Message: Jude, Apparently some premies were taught that they should push their tongues into their nasal passages in order to taste the nectar. It appears that there is discrepency about this technique, as some folks have also said that they weren't taught this. Maybe we should clear things up with a survey: Ex-premies or premies, For Jude's benefit and mine: How were you taught to do nectar? (Let's see who is afraid to reveal the techniques-snicker) VP Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, May 06, 1998 at 19:56:57 (EST)
From: Katie Email: petkat@mail.trib.net To: VP Subject: Nectar- a survey Message: We were told to curl our tongue back and push it as far back into our mouth as possible. I was never able to get it very far back, and it was uncomfortable, so I didn't do it much. I never 'tasted' nectar either - I thought it didn't exist, but some people say that it does. I remember seeing premies who did the nectar technique ALL the time - it gives you kind of a goofy look. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, May 06, 1998 at 19:57:31 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: VP Subject: Nectar- what I was taught Message: Nectar: Stick your tongue back down your throat and then up into your nasal passage. Use your fingers if you need to. Practice a lot to stretch the tendon under your tongue. I know some premies who cut their tendons with razor blades. [I kid you not.] If you do nectar technique, you were 'atomatically' on the 'word' technique, and you were to meditate on the word 24 hours a day if possible. BM said repeatedly that one of the things about K was that it was so simple it could be done 24 hours a day, hence his 'commandment' to ALWAYS remember holy name.' Of course, if you really did this, it was a recipe for mental illness, but that didn't stop us from trying. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, May 07, 1998 at 12:01:22 (EST)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs To: JW Subject: Nectar- what I was taught Message: Dear JW, Shocking that anyone would cut the tendon yourself although not as disheartening as CASTRATING YOURSELF!!!!!! Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, May 07, 1998 at 13:56:22 (EST)
From: C Email: David.Studio57@btinternet.com To: Robyn Subject: Nectar- what I was taught Message: I tried to cut the tendon with a razor blade. After several cuts I'd just made a bloody and very painful mess. It took a few weeks to heal properly. Later a Mahatma told me that you only had to hold it back in a relaxed way and eventually it would stretch. I tried this and after a couple of weeks I could do the technique easily. Now it's the one I practise most and it really blows me out sometimes. Very, very good indeed. I now realise that Maharaji understands nothing about meditation because he's never gotten into it. All the advice I received in the seventies was from Indian mahatmas who would have made bloody good gurus themselves. Maharaji sacked most of them. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, May 07, 1998 at 00:59:32 (EST)
From: me Email: None To: VP Subject: Nectar- a survey Message: To place your tongue as far back in your throat as you could, to behind the uvula if possible, then leave it there while also meditating on the Holy Name, all day. A few premies cut the skin under their tongues to reach farther. 1972 Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, May 07, 1998 at 11:58:30 (EST)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs To: VP Subject: Nectar- a survey Message: Dear VP, et al, I was taught, and knew people who suceeded, although I did not, to put your tonuge back and go past the nasal passage and past your eyes to the center of the top of your head. I remember hearing some of those that could do it talk about getting stuck at their nasal passages and then at their eye socketts and some did make it and told me there was a sweet 'nectar' there to be sure. I belive them. Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, May 06, 1998 at 19:44:34 (EST)
From: Still Crazy Email: None To: VP Subject: Nectar changing? Message: Back in the old days, I knew some premis who said you should grab your tongue between the thumb and index finger of each hand, pull it out all the way and saw it back and forth over your bottom front teeth in your spare time. That way, eventually you would cut through the tendon on the bottom of your tongue and be able to reach your tongue back further. I thought this was sick. (I never did the nectar technique much myself. I found it uncomfortable.) -Still Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, May 06, 1998 at 19:56:25 (EST)
From: Jude Email: None To: Still Crazy Subject: Nectar changing? Message: How do you get your tongue into your nasal passage? I'm serious...would you mind being more specific? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, May 06, 1998 at 20:50:53 (EST)
From: eb Email: None To: Jude Subject: Nectar changing? Message: Dear Jude, Mahatma Gurucharnanand Ji showed us how he did it--quite impressive. The tongue curls back and up behind the uvula. There are diagrams of all the techniques and more in the Do-In, by Michio Kushi. eb Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, May 06, 1998 at 22:55:18 (EST)
From: John Email: None To: eb Subject: Nectar changing? Message: I always thought I was cursed because I have a short fat tongue that could never go where it was supposed to go. BUT, nectar has always been one of my favorite techniques. Of course, what was/is the point really? It's been so many years now that I have experienced being able to quiet my thoughts that it's really no big deal. So I have inner peace...so what? I want excitement, fun, incredible and interesting things to happen. I have very little interest in peace of mind. And what in the world did I read above about how M now says that meditating constantly was never the intended goal? Of course, meditating constantly is an absurd idea, and I'm glad he has finally come around to seeing how absurd an idea it is, but hey why didn't he gain this wisdom when I knew him? I've said this before, it was my karma to meet an immature Perfect Master, just a little bit before he became ripe. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, May 06, 1998 at 23:17:37 (EST)
From: Gerry Email: None To: John Subject: Nectar changing? Message: John: 'I've said this before, it was my karma to meet an immature Perfect Master, just a little bit before he became ripe.' Well, he's certainly 'ripe' now. A little overdone even, wouldn't you say, John? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, May 07, 1998 at 10:39:50 (EST)
From: John Email: None To: Gerry Subject: God speaks Message: Yeah, that's right, but isn't there another word for overripe? Ah, but now I am a bitter old man, cynical and withdrawn, stung once, I am now fearful of stretching out my hand for further assistance, so afraid I am of being disappointed. Ah, woe is me!! Seriously though, I don't believe in the whole idea of a Perfect Master. It's not like I gave up on GMJ and continued my search for God in human form. I awoke to the fact that the whole idea of a Messenger from God is flaky and one that I have no interest in. I am God, just temporarily pretending to be John. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, May 07, 1998 at 11:05:50 (EST)
From: Gerry Email: None To: John Subject: God speaks Message: John: 'I am God, just temporarily pretending to be John.' John, do you really think this is true? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, May 07, 1998 at 23:19:23 (EST)
From: John Email: None To: Gerry Subject: God speaks Message: Do I really believe that I am God pretending to be John? Well, since I am God and whatever I do is perfect, then I am doing a perfect job of pretending to be John, and so I find it difficult to believe totally that I am not in fact John but am in fact God. But seriously, doesn't it make sense? Until I hear a better explanation for this creation I'll stick with mine. Which is that God got bored, wanted some excitement, so God decided to create a world in which God was unknown. God uses this world to manifest in human forms as many many IMperfect beings which don't know who they really are. So, the whole point of this creation is to experience non-God experiences, that is - confusion, doubt, fear, helplessness, worry, weariness, sickness, disease, death. Once we die, the illusion falls away of course. I think it's important to believe things which are helpful. I find it helpful to see pain and suffering as a bizarre game that I as God am playing with myself. Suffering is totally temporary, and it happens to allow me to appreciate even more the indescribeable state of being God. Sorry, it's getting late for me, I don't know how much sense I am making. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, May 08, 1998 at 00:22:35 (EST)
From: Gerry Email: None To: John Subject: God speaks sense to me Message: Yup, that's it. Sorry I can't be more verbose, but you summed up my thoughts, exactly. Let's start a club....I move Jude should be the first presidente...hey isn't this how religions start? Sorry, I'm still breathing heavy over the Marolyn's letter controvery. Great drama, wouldn't you say. Thanks for putting it in prospective, even if you didn't know you did that. (What am I saying, god's omniscient!) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, May 07, 1998 at 13:44:38 (EST)
From: Jude Email: None To: John Subject: God speaks Message: John I may start worshipping you Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, May 07, 1998 at 14:36:14 (EST)
From: Temporarily John Email: None To: Jude Subject: God speaks again Message: Well, I'm in North Carolina, not sure where you are but make sure you bow down in the right direction at night. Oh, and my blessings to all my premie. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, May 08, 1998 at 21:04:52 (EST)
From: Gerry Email: None To: Temporarily John Subject: God speaks again Message: God where are you when I need you? Do some more speakin'! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, May 07, 1998 at 01:03:38 (EST)
From: me Email: None To: eb Subject: Nectar changing? Message: My husband just said...and I'm ROTFL, that 'Didn't someone just say that you pull your tongue all the way out and wipe your butt with it?' Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, May 07, 1998 at 12:07:09 (EST)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs To: me Subject: Nectar changing? Message: Dear eb, TO FUNNY! Is ROTFL, rolling on the floor laughing? I'd be doing it here today but the floor is pretty gross! Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, May 07, 1998 at 12:35:16 (EST)
From: eb Email: None To: me Subject: Nectar changing? Message: You're getting ahead of us here. I think that's the 5th technique. Who was it who said, 'Cleanliness is next to Godliness'? eb Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, May 07, 1998 at 21:06:03 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: Jude Subject: Nectar changing? Message: For some people it's easy and for some people it's not. I really can get my tongue back there, although it was about a year after I received knowledge. Fortunately, I never had the guts to cut the tendon under my tongue like some other premies I knew did. But I don't think I ever tasted 'nectar,' whatever that is. I did practice the technique all the time, for a long time whenever I wasn't speaking or eating, and I agree, it did make me look kind of ridiculous. To this day, I sometimes find myself doing it. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, May 07, 1998 at 11:53:53 (EST)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs To: Still Crazy Subject: Excerpts Query Message: Dear Still, Are you from the east coast, or were you then? Maybe that is it, maybe the whole thing fizzled before it got to the west coast? Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, May 07, 1998 at 12:19:42 (EST)
From: Still Crazy Email: None To: Robyn Subject: Excerpts Query Message: Hi, Robyn, No, I'm not from the east coast, but I received K in New York City in June of 1972 (from Mahatma Rajeshwar). -Still Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, May 07, 1998 at 15:59:02 (EST)
From: Carol Email: None To: Still Crazy Subject: Excerpts Query Message: I received K from Rajeshwar on July 4th 1972 in Portland. Carol Return to Index -:- Top of Index |