Forum IV: The Ex-Premie Forum
Archive: 7
From: Fri, Oct 08, 1999 To: Wed, Oct 20, 1999 Page: 4 Of: 5


Nigel -:- Book of Channel 4 prog. Syd's bit. -:- Sun, Oct 10, 1999 at 17:34:05 (EDT)

Raoul -:- You forgetting the small print -:- Sun, Oct 10, 1999 at 14:12:39 (EDT)
__ AJW -:- Let your little light shine Raoul -:- Mon, Oct 11, 1999 at 14:52:20 (EDT)
__ Pauline Premie -:- Re: You forgetting the small print -:- Sun, Oct 10, 1999 at 14:48:11 (EDT)
__ Maharaji -:- Thank you, Raoul -:- Sun, Oct 10, 1999 at 14:45:32 (EDT)
__ __ Raoul -:- Re: Thank you, Raoul -:- Sun, Oct 10, 1999 at 15:42:48 (EDT)
__ __ __ Maharaji -:- Re: Thank you, Raoul -:- Mon, Oct 11, 1999 at 06:04:14 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Maharaji -:- Wait a minute. Call me before you come. 310-457-5561 -:- Tues, Oct 12, 1999 at 00:48:55 (EDT)
__ __ Another Maharaji -:- Re: Thank you, Raoul -:- Sun, Oct 10, 1999 at 15:39:01 (EDT)
__ __ __ Sant Ji Maharaj -:- Re: Thank you, Raoul -:- Mon, Oct 11, 1999 at 19:32:10 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Raoul -:- Re: Thank you, Raoul -:- Mon, Oct 11, 1999 at 23:15:56 (EDT)
__ __ __ Blackdog -:- Re: Thank you, Raoul -:- Sun, Oct 10, 1999 at 15:52:25 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Raoul -:- Bastardos -:- Sun, Oct 10, 1999 at 16:01:31 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Sir Dave -:- Re: Bastardos -:- Sun, Oct 10, 1999 at 20:25:23 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Raoul -:- Re: Bastardos -:- Sun, Oct 10, 1999 at 20:42:37 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Sir Dave -:- Re: Bastardos -:- Sun, Oct 10, 1999 at 20:54:53 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Raoul -:- Re: Bastardos -:- Mon, Oct 11, 1999 at 23:04:03 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Sir Dave -:- Diga a história por favor -:- Tues, Oct 12, 1999 at 03:15:00 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Kermit -:- Riveting stuff -:- Sun, Oct 10, 1999 at 16:05:30 (EDT)

Susan -:- moving my discussion with the GM up -:- Sun, Oct 10, 1999 at 12:41:29 (EDT)
__ Is SHP really the GM???? -:- Moving up Joey's very good why Jesus and The Guru are different post -:- Mon, Oct 11, 1999 at 11:58:21 (EDT)
__ __ Shp -:- Re: Moving up Joey's very good why Jesus and The Guru are different post -:- Mon, Oct 11, 1999 at 21:34:38 (EDT)
__ __ __ Susan -:- Thanks SHP. I didn't think it was you but I have been fooled before. (nt) -:- Mon, Oct 11, 1999 at 23:43:03 (EDT)
__ __ Joey -:- Spacing wasn't right. We'll try again -:- Mon, Oct 11, 1999 at 15:08:06 (EDT)
__ __ __ Susan -:- my fault, I thought your post was too good to leave at the bottom :) (nt) -:- Mon, Oct 11, 1999 at 15:12:11 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Joey -:- Kewl enough Susan:::)) ...and thanks! -:- Mon, Oct 11, 1999 at 15:34:25 (EDT)
__ __ __ Joey -:- Well, thats good enough...now do you care to answer??(nt) -:- Mon, Oct 11, 1999 at 15:11:28 (EDT)
__ __ Joey -:- How about using the html?? -:- Mon, Oct 11, 1999 at 14:52:46 (EDT)
__ Susan -:- General Manager, let's talk here my hard drive is too small for all 100 -:- Mon, Oct 11, 1999 at 11:48:13 (EDT)
__ bill -:- Re: moving my discussion with the GM up -:- Mon, Oct 11, 1999 at 01:52:00 (EDT)

Robyn -:- Anth's other birthday -:- Sun, Oct 10, 1999 at 10:01:31 (EDT)
__ Robyn -:- the birthday goddess looses her title -:- Sun, Oct 10, 1999 at 10:15:47 (EDT)
__ __ AJW -:- Truly a birthday Godess -:- Mon, Oct 11, 1999 at 15:00:48 (EDT)
__ __ __ Marianne -:- Partygoers ID -:- Wed, Oct 13, 1999 at 13:00:48 (EDT)
__ __ __ Robyn -:- Re: Truly a birthday Godess -:- Tues, Oct 12, 1999 at 07:05:10 (EDT)

Sir Dave -:- Too late for you, Maharaji -:- Sun, Oct 10, 1999 at 09:15:07 (EDT)

Enough -:- Spread this Knowledge: An Economic -:- Sun, Oct 10, 1999 at 08:53:21 (EDT)
__ JW -:- Yes, and Notice Also -:- Sun, Oct 10, 1999 at 14:40:57 (EDT)
__ __ Joey -:- Shalom to my Ex 'Boss'!! -:- Mon, Oct 11, 1999 at 16:58:47 (EDT)
__ __ __ Jethro -:- Re: Shalom to my Ex 'Boss'!! -:- Tues, Oct 12, 1999 at 00:44:05 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Joey -:- Re: Shalom to Jethro!! -:- Tues, Oct 12, 1999 at 15:09:35 (EDT)
__ __ __ Joey -:- PS: Re: Israel -:- Mon, Oct 11, 1999 at 17:03:44 (EDT)
__ __ AJW -:- New premies don't stick around -:- Mon, Oct 11, 1999 at 15:11:12 (EDT)
__ __ __ JW -:- Re: New premies don't stick around -:- Mon, Oct 11, 1999 at 18:40:28 (EDT)
__ __ __ Fred -:- M's First Commandment:LEAVE NO ROOM FOR DOUBT IN YOUR MIND -:- Mon, Oct 11, 1999 at 18:30:19 (EDT)
__ __ __ Jean-Michel -:- Old timers not so much either -:- Mon, Oct 11, 1999 at 17:03:16 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Joey -:- Re: Old timers -:- Mon, Oct 11, 1999 at 17:08:43 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Joey -:- Re: Old timers no so much either -:- Mon, Oct 11, 1999 at 17:08:20 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Fred -:- Cult Buster that thinks m is O.K. -:- Mon, Oct 11, 1999 at 18:36:49 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Joey -:- Cult educator who's beginning to worry about m's cult -:- Mon, Oct 11, 1999 at 20:57:21 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Fred -:- Will I? -:- Mon, Oct 11, 1999 at 22:45:23 (EDT)
__ __ Jean-Michel -:- And don't forget the commission -:- Mon, Oct 11, 1999 at 06:29:04 (EDT)
__ __ __ JW -:- JM, Please Explain -:- Mon, Oct 11, 1999 at 11:13:00 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Joey -:- Re: Hotel kickbacks -:- Mon, Oct 11, 1999 at 15:31:53 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Fred -:- Re: Hotel kickbacks -:- Mon, Oct 11, 1999 at 22:50:21 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Joey -:- ATTENTION PREMIES: re: hotel rates at events -:- Tues, Oct 12, 1999 at 15:02:47 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jean-Michel -:- I'll tell you why -:- Wed, Oct 13, 1999 at 03:34:29 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Jean-Michel -:- Re: JM, Please Explain -:- Mon, Oct 11, 1999 at 13:28:09 (EDT)
__ __ Jean-Michel -:- Revolutions in SAM -:- Mon, Oct 11, 1999 at 05:07:35 (EDT)
__ __ __ Jean-Michel -:- About India -:- Mon, Oct 11, 1999 at 05:16:00 (EDT)

Forum Friends -:- Bobby's thread -:- Sat, Oct 09, 1999 at 21:26:05 (EDT)

Roger Rushdie eDrek -:- Seems that not everybody likes me -:- Sat, Oct 09, 1999 at 14:43:28 (EDT)
__ Robyn -:- Re: Seems that not everybody likes me -:- Sun, Oct 10, 1999 at 10:05:02 (EDT)
__ Sir Dave -:- Re: Seems that not everybody likes me -:- Sat, Oct 09, 1999 at 15:03:42 (EDT)
__ __ Roger eDrek -:- Now, that's a mistake! -:- Sat, Oct 09, 1999 at 15:24:05 (EDT)
__ __ __ Grace -:- That other picture -:- Sat, Oct 09, 1999 at 17:10:45 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Roger eDrek -:- Hmmm, let's see here -:- Sat, Oct 09, 1999 at 18:16:34 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ JW -:- Re: Hmmm, let's see here -:- Sun, Oct 10, 1999 at 02:53:04 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Joey -:- OMIGOD!!!! -:- Sun, Oct 10, 1999 at 13:22:51 (EDT)

Deerskin -:- fraud -:- Sat, Oct 09, 1999 at 13:41:35 (EDT)

Jim -:- What does this 'poem' reveal? -:- Fri, Oct 08, 1999 at 20:32:10 (EDT)
__ People's Poet -:- Needs more work -:- Mon, Oct 11, 1999 at 15:24:26 (EDT)
__ JW -:- Re: What does this 'poem' reveal? -:- Sun, Oct 10, 1999 at 02:28:42 (EDT)
__ Jim -:- I'll answer my own question (no, this is NOT what they call mental masturbation) -:- Fri, Oct 08, 1999 at 21:07:54 (EDT)
__ __ guru is greater than god -:- Re: I'll answer my own question (no, this is NOT what they call mental masturbation) -:- Sat, Oct 09, 1999 at 14:14:12 (EDT)
__ __ __ Shp -:- Re: I'll answer my own question (no, this is NOT what they call mental masturbation) -:- Sat, Oct 09, 1999 at 15:11:06 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Roger eDrek -:- Yes, but it is OUR HOUSE! -:- Sat, Oct 09, 1999 at 15:32:22 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Shp -:- Re: Yes, but it is my name. -:- Sat, Oct 09, 1999 at 17:26:57 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ CD -:- Re: Yes, but it is my name. -:- Sat, Oct 09, 1999 at 21:26:51 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ ACM -:- Re: Yes, but it is my name. -:- Mon, Oct 11, 1999 at 06:47:47 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ dvd -:- Detachment usually means passionless. -:- Sun, Oct 10, 1999 at 00:03:32 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Shp -:- Re: Detachment usually means passionless...NOT! -:- Sun, Oct 10, 1999 at 10:39:18 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Sir Dave -:- No, because it's a myth and bullshit, Shp -:- Sun, Oct 10, 1999 at 13:46:17 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Shp -:- Re: No, because it's a myth and bullshit, Shp -:- Sun, Oct 10, 1999 at 14:04:13 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Shp, you keep falling for (and passing along) the same old, naive, stupid tricks -:- Sun, Oct 10, 1999 at 14:25:46 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Shp -:- Jim's cleaning house on this thread like a sucker fish in an aquarium -:- Sun, Oct 10, 1999 at 17:27:36 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Avoidance, nonsense, pompous -:- Sun, Oct 10, 1999 at 17:42:46 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Shp -:- Re: Judge not. -:- Mon, Oct 11, 1999 at 21:29:07 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Sir Dave -:- Re: Avoidance, nonsense, pompous -:- Sun, Oct 10, 1999 at 20:44:25 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Shp -:- Detachment is a state of being, not an emotional response -:- Wed, Oct 13, 1999 at 11:26:43 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ CD -:- Re: Detachment usually means passionless. -:- Sun, Oct 10, 1999 at 01:24:29 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- You, too, CD -:- Sun, Oct 10, 1999 at 15:47:55 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ CD -:- Re: You, too, CD -:- Sun, Oct 10, 1999 at 22:38:27 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ DVD -:- Sunday morning hangover? -:- Sun, Oct 10, 1999 at 09:36:16 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Roger eDrek -:- We're going to build a crying room -:- Sat, Oct 09, 1999 at 18:29:34 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ who -:- We -:- Sat, Oct 09, 1999 at 23:54:59 (EDT)

Jim -:- Boy is this funny -:- Fri, Oct 08, 1999 at 20:09:24 (EDT)
__ Jim -:- Okay, here's the punchline -:- Fri, Oct 08, 1999 at 20:12:32 (EDT)
__ __ Guru Roger eDrekanand -:- Money for nothing, chicks for free? Where do I get a license? (nt) -:- Sat, Oct 09, 1999 at 14:18:41 (EDT)
__ __ __ Ben Lurking -:- Apply Here -:- Sat, Oct 09, 1999 at 15:31:37 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Roger eDrek -:- So, basically you are saying... -:- Sat, Oct 09, 1999 at 15:35:09 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Ben Lurking -:- Re: So, basically you are saying... -:- Sat, Oct 09, 1999 at 18:25:12 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Roger eDrek -:- Oh, I know plenty about chicken farms, believe me! -:- Sat, Oct 09, 1999 at 18:31:49 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Ben Lurking -:- Re: Oh, I know plenty about chicken farms, believe me! -:- Sat, Oct 09, 1999 at 19:36:26 (EDT)
__ __ gerry -:- This is GREAT! -:- Fri, Oct 08, 1999 at 21:21:25 (EDT)


Date: Sun, Oct 10, 1999 at 17:34:05 (EDT)
From: Nigel
Email: nigel@redcrow.demon.co.uk
To: All
Subject: Book of Channel 4 prog. Syd's bit.
Message:
Syd has very kindly sent me a copy of the book of the Channel Four series in which he recently made an appearance talking about his experiences with Maharaji. He also said he was happy to have his extract reproduced here. (I don't think there is a copyright issue here, Syd, even with the UK's rather anal laws on reproducing copyright material. I think the extract is both short enough and would qualify under recognised 'approved' purposes, ie. critical review or education.)

Thanks again Syd. Most appreciated.

>>>

Syd Hancock was born in 1951 and grew up in Cornwall, the elder of two brothers. His father was a Methodist preacher and his mother was the local schoolteacher. Aged 20, Syd embarked on a spiritual path seeking the answers to questions about the meaning of life which he hadn't found in Christianity. In the early 1970s he dropped out, experimented with drugs and discovered Eastern spirituality at the same time as the Beatles. Syd set off for India, the spiritual capital of the world, but never got any farther than Leicester where he discovered the young guru of the Divine Light Mission. Maharaji had said that the millennium was coming in 1973 and that this would mark the end of life as we knew it. All the followers from around the world were encouraged to gather in the Houston Astrodome for Millennium 73, a three-day event where they awaited the dawning of the New Age. Syd was one of those waiting.

Maharaji was just a young boy, a remarkable child. After his father's death he was proclaimed as the new guru. He spoke with great authority, great conviction, in front of large crowds. In 1970, when he was only 13 years old, he had a big open air meeting in New Delhi called the Peace Bomb when he said he had come to bring peace to the world, and that in every age when the planet is in great turmoil, the Lord will come in human form to draw his true devotees to him and lead them to the path of righteousness. So he was present-ing himself as the one to save the planet.

He came first to Britain in 1971. I remember seeing pictures of him in the papers when he arrived at Heathrow, there was a real buzz about him. He was at one of the first Glastonbury Festivals, apparently there were coloured lights in the sky when he arrived on stage. It was claimed by the devotees that it was fulfilment of an ancient prophecy that Christ would return and go to Glastonbury.

I was a spiritual seeker and Maharaji had a huge impact then in the community of seekers. I was just 20/21 , I'd been searching for spiritual answers for a long time but I was looking beyond the Christian church. I was into some of the ideas of the psychedelic movement, and going beyond the mind into higher consciousness using psychedelic drugs. I experimented and discovered realms of consciousness and experiences beyond the everyday. Once I'd had those experiences, I knew there was more to life than mundane everyday experiences. I wasn't alone, I decided to leave behind the drugs and find that kind of higher consciousness within myself. 1 started discovering other religions, got interested iii other ideas, the Beatles had come across the Maharishi, so meditation and yoga had become mainstream. One of the things that attracted me to Maharaji is that he said that God was God come back in human form to bring world peace and he'd said it was going to happen very soon. There was an ecological awareness, then, that we were destroying the planet with poisons, nuclear power was dangerous and something had to be done. The feeling was growing that if we continued like this it was going to mean wholesale destruction throughout the world unless we reversed things. That was one of the threads of the pre-millennial feeling that was developing. I remember once having an LSD trip when I walked out of Leicester into the hills and 1 was looking down on the city. As I was watching it seemed to shimmer and dis-appear, it felt very real to me and I thought, 'Oh gosh, it's gone, that's it, civilisation's ended now, we'll have to start all over again.' Other times, I'd be walking through the streets and thinking that all around me would be derelict soon, creepers would grow, and it would go back to nature.

The premies, the followers of Maharaji, were galvanised, it was impossible to ignore the message. Out of my friends, I was the first to join. My family thought it was just the excesses of youth. We believed that the Book of Revelations was coming true. There's going to be 144,000 of us, we're the chosen ones; the world is going to end and Maharaji's going to bring in the Kingdom of Heaven. In that fervour you really wanted everyone to be there with you, so we bombarded people with stuff, it was a very intense time.

It was announced that Maharaji's biggest festival in the West to date was going to take place in November in Houston, U.S.A. It was called Millennium 73. People from all over the West and India were encouraged to go. This was going to be where Maharaji would announce his plan to bring peace to the world. It was called the Millennium Festival because it was going to inaugurate a thousand years of peace, the Age of Aquarius was going to come in and the world was going to end. There was also a comet, Kohoutek, that was going to blaze across the sky as another sign to usher in the New Age. Maharaji said that when they gathered in the Astrodome the air would he filled with petals, rose petals fall from the sky and angels sing. In the build-up beforehand in the magazines, it was said that the sky would be Full of flying saucers because all the beings of the universe were coming to Maharaji.

People were going from all around the world. We were told, You must go there, you must be on the plane.' Three planes were chartered from Heathrow to go to Houston. I was on the second plane but I remember standing on an observation deck watching the first plane leave. I was leaving behind my family and friends and we weren't coming back, we were going to Heaven, we weren't going to see this place or those people ever again. I felt that we had tried our best to get them to come and we could not have done any more. On arrival in Houston we stayed in a big hotel and went to the Festival everyday. I can remember looking at the sky for the comet and being very excited. Actually in the Astrodome were far fewer than the 144,000 who were expected. I remember seeing large tables of food left to rot, Maharaji sat on a big ornate throne on a big stage with huge video screens behind him showing flower children and student protests, that sort of thing. There were rock hands playing. The message in the music and pictures was that this was what we'd lived through: all this struggle leading up to this moment. Maharaji had a programme of talks which he gave every evening about how he was going to bring peace to the world. there was so much euphoria, it was quite dislocated from reality, there wasn't a fearful feeling of the world coming to an end. When we came to the end of the event and it didn't happen, some people felt let down, especially those political activists who had taken it all very literally. I was one of the many who felt that these things happen on the inside, our experience of the world had changed on the inside, but not necessarily on the outside. As an inner experience, we felt the world had ended; the world would never be the same again. It was a very deep thing.

>
(Far Out: The Dawning of new Age Britain Miriam Akhtar & Steve Humphries. Sansom & Co. 1999)

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Date: Sun, Oct 10, 1999 at 14:12:39 (EDT)
From: Raoul
Email: None
To: All
Subject: You forgetting the small print
Message:
What people coming in here is not knowing perhaps, that is all science fiction and story to be made up by 3 maybe 4 people most.

See that why newspapers having no use of it all - they read this shit and think 'damn good story' then editors say 'wait minute please, how we know that not just some kids having piss time?'

How you see differences? Easy is making up browsers, easy too is making up IP!

Real is Maharaji, real peace, real joy, real lord. All else is mischief.

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Date: Mon, Oct 11, 1999 at 14:52:20 (EDT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Raoul
Subject: Let your little light shine Raoul
Message:
Jai Sat Chit Anand Brother,

Alas, in our community (UK) it is more than 3 or 4 who have become confused. There are about 37,000 brothers and sisters who have received the holy knowledge and stopped practising. They are now all in the darkness. The light is being held by very few now, but your words of inspiration will keep us going for another 25 years, for we are the ones who know, and everybody else in the world is in much darkness.

Anth who's gonna let his little light shine all over the universe. (He's gonna let it shine).

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Date: Sun, Oct 10, 1999 at 14:48:11 (EDT)
From: Pauline Premie
Email: None
To: Raoul
Subject: Re: You forgetting the small print
Message:
Yes, oh my brother, Maharaji is real and so is that peace and that joy and that love. But it is unfortunately more than 3 or 4 people who are in their minds. But you and I are so fortunate to have understanding. We must pray for the grace of Maharaji that we do not fall into darkness and mind and become negative, unhappy, monmots like the ex-premies. At any second we could be hurled into the darkness of Maya. Remember the story Maharaji tells all the time of the guy who turned from the Master to get a drink of water and emerged about 50 years later with all this horrible maya baggage of wife and kids? He wasn't free to serve the living lord and he missed so much precious time. Oh my god, this really freaks me out. I must go meditate and then watch a video.
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Date: Sun, Oct 10, 1999 at 14:45:32 (EDT)
From: Maharaji
Email: None
To: Raoul
Subject: Thank you, Raoul
Message:
Raoul,

This is Maharaji. I am responding to your post of love for me. Never before have I posted on this horrible cesspool of a website, but for my devotee who calls me with love I will travel a million miles and be like a lotus above the dirty water just to say I love you.

I love you, Raoul.

Blessings!

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Date: Sun, Oct 10, 1999 at 15:42:48 (EDT)
From: Raoul
Email: None
To: Maharaji
Subject: Re: Thank you, Raoul
Message:
Dear Maharaji

I thank you in the bottom of my heart for blessing I not having to deserve. Please when you can come see us in Bogata?

Raoul

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Date: Mon, Oct 11, 1999 at 06:04:14 (EDT)
From: Maharaji
Email: None
To: Raoul
Subject: Re: Thank you, Raoul
Message:
My schedule won't allow me to come to Bogota soon.
But for your faith I want to bless you.
I invite you to come to my residence in Malibu Calofornia.
I'm looking forwartd to see you soon.
Come running.

Yours

Maharaji

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Date: Tues, Oct 12, 1999 at 00:48:55 (EDT)
From: Maharaji
Email: None
To: Maharaji
Subject: Wait a minute. Call me before you come. 310-457-5561
Message:
Raoul,

Due to some contigency budgetary measures we are going to be a little short handed at the Residence. So, it would be best if you called before you come. Please feel free to call me at 310-457-5561.

Also, please send me email at Maharaji@maharaji.org and list any skills that you might have (e.g. landscaping, house cleaning, laundry etc.)

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Date: Sun, Oct 10, 1999 at 15:39:01 (EDT)
From: Another Maharaji
Email: None
To: Raoul
Subject: Re: Thank you, Raoul
Message:
Blessed are you, who has the real understanding.
Knowledge will carry you through to the other shore.
I will always stay at your side.
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Date: Mon, Oct 11, 1999 at 19:32:10 (EDT)
From: Sant Ji Maharaj
Email: None
To: Another Maharaji
Subject: Re: Thank you, Raoul
Message:
Yes, Raoul, you love me because I am your lord
Write another post and tell me how my grace is overflowing, how I am 'all knowing' and about how I am 'the source of creation.'m Or just sing the song:
I love you my Lord
Your grace is overflowing
I love you my Lord
You are all knowing
You have given me life
Out of your mercy and compassion
I am so grateful
For the gift of devotion

Your feet they are lotus
Your body endless love
Your face shines so golden
You are the source of creation

I love you my Lord......Golly, I REALLY like that song.

Maharaji

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Date: Mon, Oct 11, 1999 at 23:15:56 (EDT)
From: Raoul
Email: None
To: Sant Ji Maharaj
Subject: Re: Thank you, Raoul
Message:
Eu amo-o meu senhor
Seu que o grace é amor transbordando de
I você meu senhor
Você são todos que conhecem o me deram a vida
Fora de seus mercê e compassion
Eu sou assim grato
Eara o presente da devoção

Seus pés são lotus
Seu amor infinito do corpo
Seus brilhos da cara assim que dourado
Você é a fonte da criação

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Date: Sun, Oct 10, 1999 at 15:52:25 (EDT)
From: Blackdog
Email: None
To: Another Maharaji
Subject: Re: Thank you, Raoul
Message:
Glad to see you four are making good use of the public proxys and fake browsers.

In case anyone missed it, here's all you need to create a complete, self-contained one person chat room of your very own. All you need is a proxy interface, search Hotbot for your favorite and a little imagination.

PROXIES:

AE - UNITED ARAB EMIRATES
PROXY : PORT
proxy3.emirates.net.ae:8080
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nppp304.overnet.com.ar:80
www.copa.com.ar:80

AT - AUSTRIA
PROXY : PORT
cache02.netway.at:80
labamba.telecom.at:80
news.styria.co.at:80
proxy.happynet.at:80
proxy.lbs-hartberg.ac.at:80
www-proxy.tecan.co.at:8080

AU - AUSTRALIA
PROXY : PORT
albany.jrc.net.au:80
aphrodite.iaccess.com.au:80
aplan.dnb.com.au:80
basil.acr.net.au:8080
bdcssc.dchs.tas.gov.au:3128
brock.hotline.net.au:80
citus.speednet.com.au:80
cockswain.netkiosk.com.au:80
core1-s242-2.centris.net.au:80
cyber-104.speednet.com.au:80
dover.matra.com.au:80
fewalker.ozemail.com.au:80
firewall.brim.vic.gov.au:80
ford.ace-net.com.au:80
gate.orix.com.au:80
gw.hbl.com.au:80
homebrand.cci.net.au:80
http-proxy.edi.com.au:80
hutsg7p49.hutch.com.au:80
hutsg9p2.hutch.com.au:80
iis.cfmeu.asn.au:80
jethro.meriden.pas.com.au:8080
kalima.ozemail.com.au:80
lccnt1.liscity.nsw.gov.au:80
mail.coolmore.com.au:80
mail.stpauls.qld.edu.au:80
mail2.romtech.com.au:80
max.ilb.com.au:80
mel-proxy0.one.net.au:8080
mel.proxy.ozemail.com.au:80
mis.adibgo.com.au:80
netcachesyd1.ozemail.com.au:80
netcachesyd1.ozemail.com.au:80
newcastle2.fastlink.com.au:80
nordex.ozemail.com.au:80
pix103a.magna.com.au:80
pluto.kbd.com.au:80
pluto.netlinkwa.com.au:80
proxy.ambience.com.au:80
proxy.cci.net.au:80
proxy.co.rmit.edu.au:8080
proxy.gwbbs.net.au:80
proxy.hutch.com.au:80
proxy.kern.com.au:80
proxy.melbourneit.com.au:80
proxy.newave.net.au:8080
proxy.romtech.com.au:80
proxy.scoastnet.com.au:80
rhhp.dchs.tas.gov.au:3128
sam.in4free.com.au:80
sas.netcam.com.au:80
seaport.scoastnet.com.au:80
server1.cgs.com.au:80
SERVER3.ROMTECH.COM.AU:80
sydexc2.tmpw.com.au:80
trojan.instra.net.au:80
wacka11.wackado.com.au:80
ws.edi.com.au:80
www2.transport.tas.gov.au:80

BE - BELGIUM
PROXY : PORT
abou.cybernet.be:80
cache-mar.belbone.be:80

BR - BRAZIL
PROXY : PORT
ct-nt-02.cybertelecom.com.br:8080
newview.com.br:80
sanan.com.br:8080
startup.com.br:8080

http://www.bikkel.com/~proxy/
biho.taegu.ac.kr:8080
cache2.kornet.nm.kr:80
cvs2.kyunghee.ac.kr:8080
pnet.seojon.co.kr:8080
soosam.kari.re.kr:80
CA - CANADA
PROXY : PORT
agr.gov.sk.ca:80
cacheflow2.sasknet.sk.ca:80
chadsey.clrtech.bc.ca:80
cproxy1.justice.gc.ca:8080
httpproxy.math.uwaterloo.ca:80
nd.notredame.sk.ca:80
nd253.notredame.sk.ca:80
pc252.ldss.avonmaitland.on.ca:80
pr1.nbed.nb.ca:80
pr2.nbed.nb.ca:80
pr2.nbed.nb.ca:80
pr3.nbed.nb.ca:80
pr4.nbed.nb.ca:80
pr5.nbed.nb.ca:80
proxy.collegemv.qc.ca:8080
proxy.cslouis-hemon.qc.ca:8080
sleepy.comcept.ab.ca:80
srvprx.cspaysbleuets.qc.ca:80
valliere.csvalliere.qc.ca:80
wsd.inet.quill-lake.sk.ca:80

CH - SWITZERLAND
PROXY : PORT
bw11bei.bluewin.ch:80
bw11gem.bluewin.ch:80
bw11lss.bluewin.ch:80
bw11sgw.bluewin.ch:80
cache1.worldcom.ch:8080
cache2.worldcom.ch:8080
cache3.worldcom.ch:8080
gip-lausanne-cf1.globalip.ch:80
gip-lausanne-cf1.globalip.ch:8080
gip-lausanne-cf2.globalip.ch:80
gip-lausanne-cf2.globalip.ch:8080
proxy2.iso.ch:8080
web-cache-2.cern.ch:80
www.iso.ch:8080

CL - CHILE
PROXY : PORT
proxy.concep.reuna.cl:8080

CN - CHINA
PROXY : PORT
proxy.szptt.net.cn:8080
pcsoft.szptt.net.cn:80

CO - COLUMBIA
PROXY : PORT
cache.latino.net.co:80

COM - COMMERCIAL
PROXY : PORT
110user151.ctinets.com:80
99user171.ctinets.com:80
adam.enteract.com:8080
alpha.shinnova.com:8080
bbs.packardbell.com:80
bbs.visuallink.com:80
beachboy.kajen.com:8080
brinc01.bigpond.com:80
bw36.bwa-auto.com:80
cache.escortnet.com:80
cache.pressroom.com:80
cache1.cc.interlog.com:80
cache1.cc.interlog.com:3128
cache1.toronto.interlog.com:80
cache1.toronto.interlog.com:3128
cacheflow-1.fwi.com:80
cacheflow-1.fwi.com:8080
cacheflow.inficad.com:80
cacheflow.pclink.com:80
cp-cache1.cpinternet.com:80
ctc-www.ctronsoft.com:80
d058656.sce.com:80
diamond.aspley.brisbane.ambience.com:80
dt0d1n04.san.rr.com:3128
eaglent.cemexusa.com:80
fortress.resonet.com:80
ftp.sylvania.com:80
gatekeeper.tnagb.com:80
gateway.anza.com:80
gateway.hro.com:8080
gromit.crocker.com:8080
gtchouston.com:80
hercules.integrityonline17.com:80
imsp087.netvigator.com:80
inktomi.efortress.com:80
internet-gw1.hea.com:80
intrepid.warped.com:3128
iolite.hknet.com:80
iolite.hknet.com:8080
ipfilter.hknet.com:80
ipfilter.hknet.com:8080
krunk1.xmission.com:8000
mail.itdynamics.com:80
mail.sfer-indo.com:80
melnc01.bigpond.com:80
minnetronix.com:80
minwall.minolta.com:80
ns.berk.com:8080
ns.boole.com:80
ns.netmar.com:8080
ns.tecan-group.com:8080
ns.wpem.com:80
ns1.san.rr.com:8080
ns2.scbbs-bo.com:80
panda-rosemary.com:8080
pc193.taifook.com:80
pm-101.tnaccess.com:80
pm-209.tnaccess.com:80
pm-238.tnaccess.com:80
pm-240.tnaccess.com:80
pm-247.tnaccess.com:80
prefetch-atm.midsouth.rr.com:8080
prefetch-atm.nycap.rr.com:8080
prefetch-atm.san.rr.com:8080
proctorsalesinc.zzz.com:8080
proxy-east1.get2net.com:80
proxy.carinthia.com:80
proxy.genevaonline.com:80
proxy.magus.net:8084
proxy.magus.net:8090
proxy.mcmail.com:8080
proxy.sce.com:80
proxy.speedware.com:80
proxy.vt.com:80
proxy01.dbn.iafrica.com:80
proxy2.lsil.com:8080
proxye1-atm.elp.rr.com:8080
proxye1-atm.maine.rr.com:8080
proxye1-atm.tampabay.rr.com:8080
proxye2-atm.elp.rr.com:8080
proxye2-atm.nycap.rr.com:8080
proxye2-atm.san.rr.com:8080
proxye3-atm.elp.rr.com:8080
proxye3-atm.maine.rr.com:8080
proxye3-atm.nycap.rr.com:8080
proxye3-atm.san.rr.com:8080
proxye4-atm.elp.rr.com:8080
proxye4-atm.maine.rr.com:8080
proxye4-atm.nycap.rr.com:8080
proxye4-atm.san.rr.com:8080
proxyone.cowles.com:8080
purpletongue.bluetongue.com:80
ra.tnaccess.com:80
raistlin.carinthia.com:80
remax-mammoth.com:80
riw-cap-4.wyoming.com:80
simba.customcpu.com:80
smtpgw.national-city.com:80
sydnc01.bigpond.com:80
titan.datainternet.com:8080
web2.erinet.com:80
webcache.us.newbridge.com:80
www.aerobot.com:80
www.asidfw.com:8080
www.boc-fw.com:8080
www.erinet.com:80
www.intwebservice.com:80
www.iscdfw.com:8080
www.iws-inc.com:8080
www.kci-dfw.com:8080
www.propeller.com:80
www.techline-dfw.com:8080
www.thefourthr-fw.com:8080
www3.iom.com:80
yogsothoth.ludexpress.com:8080

CZ - CZECH REPUBLIC
PROXY : PORT
bg.pcdir.cz:80
dell4100.vc.cvut.cz:80
webcache.ms.mff.cuni.cz:8080

DE - GERMANY
PROXY : PORT
aiken.rz-zw.fh-kl.de:8081
andele.cs.tu-berlin.de:80
be3334.schering.de:8080
bibo.fz.uni-lueneburg.de:80
cache-engine.netcologne.de:8080
etecs5.uni-duisburg.de:80
fhdo2.dvz.fh-dortmund.de:80
gandalf.waf-online.de:8080
hdihp2-f.fzk.de:80
kmeijn.me.kp.dlr.de:8080
netcache.netcologne.de:8080
news.dwelle.de:80
nor1s005.jungheinrich.de:80
ns.uv.ruhr-uni-bochum.de:80
p3.uhlencom.de:80
ramses.erlm.siemens.de:80
rena.zfn.uni-bremen.de:3128
resistor.gtz.de:80
sun-2.punkt.de:8080
ultra1b.noc.fh-aachen.de:3128
vivaldi.dwelle.de:80
vivaldi.dwelle.de:80
www-cache.fh-dortmund.de:80
www-cache.rz-zw.fh-kl.de:8081
www-proxy.online-service.de:80
www.rz.hs-bremen.de:3128
wwwproxy.fh-kiel.de:8080
zeus.rz.htwk-leipzig.de:80

DK - DENMARK
PROXY : PORT
bc-kunde-c1.kmd.dk:80
denethor.imf.au.dk:80
gate.dmi.min.dk:80
mail.koegekom.dk:80
nt-server.rejsby-euro-sk.dk:80
test-cache.net.uni-c.dk:80
uv.silkehs.dk:80

EDU - EDUCATIONAL
PROXY : PORT
anc1.alaska.edu:80
beast.npac.syr.edu:8080
bogachiel.evergreen.edu:8080
Brahma.CC.PurdueNC.Edu:8080
carla.dpo.uab.edu:80
felix.usc.edu:80
fw.resident.sunysb.edu:8080
garnet.cc.purduenc.edu:8080
http.icsi.berkeley.edu:8080
jun1.alaska.edu:80
ns1.bryant.edu:8080
proxy.mlc-wels.edu:80
proxy3.eku.edu:80
rhino.evansville.edu:80
transend1.cs.berkeley.edu:3128
transend2.cs.berkeley.edu:3128
transend3.cs.berkeley.edu:3128
transend4.cs.berkeley.edu:3128
vanguard.vg.pdx.edu:80
w-me14.win.ecn.uiowa.edu:80
webcache.gw.uiuc.edu:80
www-proxy.bryant.edu:8080
www-proxy.ksu.edu:8080
www.samford.edu:8080
zeus.fiu.edu:8080

ES - SPAIN
PROXY : PORT
itan.ikerlan.es:80
linux.softec.es:8080
proxy.cin.es:80

FI - FINLAND
PROXY : PORT
dlc.fi:80
cache-hki-e.inet.fi:800
majakka.saunalahti.fi:80
pasteur.tpu.fi:8080
proxy.cs.tpu.fi:80
proxy.inet.fi:800
www-cache.tpu.fi:8080
www-proxy.ilmajoki.fi:80

FO - FAROE ISLANDS
PROXY : PORT
lv.fo:80

FR - FRANCE
PROXY : PORT
dns1.ac-lille.fr:80
manon.infrescom.fr:80
proxy.ac-lille.fr:80
proxycf1.grolier.fr:80
proxycf1.grolier.fr:8080
GL - GREENLAND PROXY : PORT
host_226_002.greennet.gl:80
GR - GREECE PROXY : PORT
filathlos.filathlosnet.gr:80
www.lesvos.compulink.gr:80
HU - HUNGARY PROXY : PORT
cash.datanet.hu:80
ID - INDONESIA PROXY : PORT
proxy-1.indo.net.id:80
proxy-2.indo.net.id:80
proxy-3.indo.net.id:80
proxy-4.indo.net.id:80
proxy-5.indo.net.id:80
IE - IRELAND PROXY : PORT
proxy1.lyit.ie:8080
proxy1.rtc-letterkenny.ie:8080
IL - ISREAL PROXY : PORT
customer.netvision.net.il:80
goldcache.attgold.net.il:80
IS - ICELAND PROXY : PORT
gaea.vortex.is:80
nafni.skyggnir.is:80
ns0.ok.is:80
proxy.vortex.is:80
valla.tv.is:80
www.aknet.is:80
IT - ITALY PROXY : PORT
aras.softeam.it:8080
armagnac.inferentia.it:80
dedra.adria.it:8080
dns.nti.it:8080
falco.procom.it:8080
mail.lcnet.it:8080
mercury.lngs.infn.it:80
proxy.castagna.it:80
proxy.gensoft.it:8080
proxy.lcnet.it:8080
proxy.micanet.it:80
wwwcache.lngs.infn.it:80
JO - JORDAN PROXY : PORT
www.go.com.jo:8080
AC.JP - JAPAN PROXY : PORT
www.cc.mie-u.ac.jp:80
ast200.osaka-seikei.ac.jp:8080
cactus.elm.timis.ac.jp:8080
cairo.osu.ac.jp:8080
censun03.sit.ac.jp:80
civil-gw.cv.titech.ac.jp:8080
cl-svr4.uccl.teikyo-u.ac.jp:8080
cntdb.cnts.himeji-tech.ac.jp:80
comicen.cis.iwate-it.ac.jp:80
cs.oita-med.ac.jp:80
dns1.chiyoda-gakuen.ac.jp:8080
eve.mes.titech.ac.jp:8080
fdcs02.fdcnet.ac.jp:8080
fserva.ynu.ac.jp:8080
gate.obc.ac.jp:8080
gatekeeper.shimane-med.ac.jp:8080
gro-G.wakayama-nct.ac.jp:80
hanshin.koshien-c.ac.jp:80
hitp-gw.hitp.ac.jp:8080
hyg-gw.hyo-med.ac.jp:8080
ibuki.ha.shotoku.ac.jp:80
id.takushoku-u.ac.jp:80
jaws001.otemae.ac.jp:81
kiku.asahi-u.ac.jp:10080
kinka.gifu-kyoiku.ac.jp:8080
kinka.ha.shotoku.ac.jp:8080
kpcu.kumamoto-pct.ac.jp:8080
la.kaic.ac.jp:8080
msic07.msic.med.osaka-cu.ac.jp:80
nebura2.tech.nebuta.ac.jp:8080
news.main.teikyo-u.ac.jp:80
ns.seigakuin-univ.ac.jp:8080
nsb-sv1.nag.ac.jp:80
primary.osaka-pct.ac.jp:80
proxy.chuo-shoka.ac.jp:8080
proxy2.pf.it-chiba.ac.jp:8080
rj4ntsv1.obirin.ac.jp:80
rs-srv1.sfc-js.keio.ac.jp:8080
rs6000n1-en1.center.wakayama-u.ac.jp:80
sakpro.eiyo.ac.jp:80
silver.suzuka-ct.ac.jp:80
takeyam.life.shimane-u.ac.jp:8080
tokudai.tokujo.ac.jp:80
ws8.kagawa-jc.ac.jp:8080
www-sv.ferris.ac.jp:8080
www.kagawa-jc.ac.jp:8080
www.obc.ac.jp:8080
www.oita-med.ac.jp:80
www.osaka-dent.ac.jp:80
www.ueno.ac.jp:8080
AD.JP - JAPAN PROXY : PORT
ebisu04.ebisu.ad.jp:8080
news.gdbnet.ad.jp:8080
ns.gdbnet.ad.jp:8080
proxy.ebisu.ad.jp:8080
proxy.gdbnet.ad.jp:8080
CO.JP - JAPAN PROXY : PORT
aasd301s.fujieic.co.jp:80
aases301.fei.co.jp:80
aimnt1001.aim-corp.co.jp:80
alec.alec.co.jp:8080
amuro.technonet.co.jp:80
axil.hama.gaio.co.jp:8080
bowwow.sde.co.jp:8080
cbnetsv01.cbnet.co.jp:80
denntr01.sunwa.co.jp:8080
dns.mnc.co.jp:8080
dns.nagase.co.jp:8080
dns1.infocom.co.jp:80
dtsgate.dotshell.co.jp:80
firewall.gcc.co.jp:80
fw2.mkcstat.co.jp:8080
fw3.mkcstat.co.jp:8080
gw.topcon.co.jp:8080
inet-sv.zenon.co.jp:8080
jtp-gw.jtp.co.jp:8080
march.nissan-prince-nagoya.co.jp:8080
misawa01.misawa.co.jp:8080
ml.keiwa-biz.co.jp:80
msv.jmsis.co.jp:8080
ns.amrhp.co.jp:80
ns.hayashikk.co.jp:80
ns.urbanmets.co.jp:8080
ns0.apecs.co.jp:8080
ns1.souken.co.jp:80
ntserver.gaku.co.jp:10080
ntsmtp.haagen-dazs.co.jp:80
om-is1.orientalmotor.co.jp:8080
proxy.adroad.co.jp:8080
proxy.elpasso.co.jp:8080
proxy.kokumon.co.jp:8080
proxy.kzi.co.jp:8080
rps.ana.co.jp:80
segw.seng.co.jp:80
sekigate_e.sekitech.co.jp:8080
snjsrvr3.club-tourism.co.jp:8080
spo_hon.idc-com.co.jp:8080
srv006.ysn.co.jp:8080
sun01.pdic.co.jp:8080
svdns.settsu.co.jp:8080
tcis00.uz.ascii.co.jp:80
tokyo-gw.koyo21.co.jp:8080
tokyo01.nemic.co.jp:8080
upsystem.co.jp:80
www.nichigai.co.jp:8080
www.nidec.co.jp:8080
GO.JP - JAPAN PROXY : PORT
ringer.etl.go.jp:8080
proxy1.naec.go.jp:8080
NE.JP - JAPAN PROXY : PORT
cat3.nns.ne.jp:8080
ns1.m-surf.ne.jp:8080
proxy.hidecnet.ne.jp:80
tsukasa1.tsukasa-unet.ocn.ne.jp:8080
www.apel.ne.jp:8080
www3.kcn.ne.jp:8080
OR.JP - JAPAN PROXY : PORT
dns.jicnet.or.jp:8080
gatekeeper.focus.or.jp:8080
kuramoto.miyamizu.or.jp:8080
ma.jic.jicnet.or.jp:8080
ns.spy.or.jp:8080
ns1.shokokai-nagasaki.or.jp:8080
p1.zzz.or.jp:3128
proxy.health-net.or.jp:8080
rnacmor2.rnac.or.jp:8080
techno.ja-am.or.jp:10080
www.health-net.or.jp:8080
www.ink.or.jp:8080
www.shirakawa.or.jp:8080
(misc.) JP - JAPAN PROXY : PORT
ns.daishi-hs.kawasaki.kawasaki.jp:8080
inetsv1.kawashima-jhs.kawashima.gifu.jp:80
watson.ysp.pref.yamaguchi.jp:80
www.rcb.gr.jp:8080

LU - LUXEMBOURG
PROXY : PORT
www.pt.lu:80

MIL - US Military
PROXY : PORT
anaconda.brooks.af.mil:80
garobi-fw.ang.af.mil:80
onion-router.nrl.navy.mil:9000
onion-router.nrl.navy.mil:9200

MT - MALTA
PROXY : PORT
relay1.kemmunet.net.mt:80

MX - MEXICO
PROXY : PORT
castor.dgsca-cray2.unam.mx:80
cismex1-250.uninet.net.mx:80

MY - MALAYSIA
PROXY : PORT
tenaga.tnb.com.my:8080
NET - NETWORK PROXY : PORT
ad-proxy.eclipse.net:8000
asiainter.net:80
backbone-16-002.guate.net:80
block.ftech.net:80
bos2-wc2.atlas.digex.net:80
ca-public.value.net:80
ca-public.value.net:80
cache-1.golden.net:80
cache-2.golden.net:80
cache-dh1.casema.net:80
cache01-e4a.proxy.ozemail.net:8080
cache1.bora.net:80
cache1.frankfurt.contrib.net:80
cache1.mtl.dsuper.net:80
cache1.sntc01.pacbell.net:80
cache12-noc.kornet21.net:8001
cache2.binc.net:80
cache2.bora.net:80
cache3.bora.net:8080
cacheflow-02.mtl.total.net:80
cacheflow-02.mtl.total.net:80
cacheflow.cyberramp.net:80
cacheflow.cyberramp.net:8080
cacheflow2.mpinet.net:80
cachesrv.1st.net:80
ce-coop.malabar.clv.stratos.net:80
ce1.tdi.net:80
cf-00-00.cache.cantv.net:80
cf1000.netdirect.net:80
cf2.tor.accglobal.net:80
cflow1.mts.net:80
cflow2.mts.net:80
concord01.pop.internex.net:8080
crash.wwwcache.ja.net:8080
daemongate10.warehouse.net:80
daemongate11.warehouse.net:80
daemongate12.warehouse.net:80
daemongate13.warehouse.net:80
daemongate14.warehouse.net:80
daemongate15.warehouse.net:80
daemongate16.warehouse.net:80
daemongate17.warehouse.net:80
daemongate18.warehouse.net:80
daemongate19.warehouse.net:80
daemongate20.warehouse.net:80
daemongate21.warehouse.net:80
daemongate22.warehouse.net:80
daemongate23.warehouse.net:80
daemongate34.warehouse.net:80
daemongate44.warehouse.net:80
daemongate45.warehouse.net:80
daemongate49.warehouse.net:80
daemongate52.warehouse.net:80
daemongate63.warehouse.net:80
dca1-wc1.atlas.digex.net:80
dca1-wc1.atlas.digex.net:8080
dca1-wc2.atlas.digex.net:80
dca1-wc2.atlas.digex.net:8080
dead.wwwcache.ja.net:8080
double-panic.wwwcache.ja.net:8080
duluth.cache.mr.net:3128
dynacache.ultra.net:80
elpxy01.ce.mediaone.net:8080
elpxy01.ce.mediaone.net:8080
elpxy02.ce.mediaone.net:8080
gateway1.caribe.net:80
gateway2.caribe.net:80
ginger.wwwcache.ja.net:8080
gip-sydn-cache-2.gip.net:80
hamster.slip.net:8080
icp6.servers.wwwcache.ja.net:8080
icp7.servers.wwwcache.ja.net:8080
icp7.servers.wwwcache.ja.net:8080
icp8.servers.wwwcache.ja.net:8080
idefix.germany.net:8080
instant1.gua.net:80
ixproxy1.telia.net:8080
ixproxy2.telia.net:8080
ixproxy3.telia.net:8080
k112.value.net:80
korma.connect-2.net:80
lhsa-proxy.shutter.net:80
loxppp67-usr.suapha.loxinfo.net:80
loxppp8-sp10.suapha.loxinfo.net:80
loxusr3.suapha.loxinfo.net:80
mail.westminster.net:80
mars.germany.net:3128
mbox.verona.it.net:80
megatop.panlanka.net:80
mtplsnt3.lisco.net:80
mtplsnt39.lisco.net:80
mtplsnt4.lisco.net:80
mtplsnt57.lisco.net:80
nas9-22.thefree.net:80
newpella31.lisco.net:80
newpella37.lisco.net:80
nexus-1.flash.net:8080
nrl.onion-router.net:9200
ns.adams.net:8080
ns.egyptian.net:8080
ns.excell.net:8080
ns.htc.net:8080
ns.riccione.net:80
ns1.isol.net:80
ns1.utah-net.net:8080
pepper.wwwcache.ja.net:8080
pm3-1-user-39.mgv.hom.net:80
polk.se.mediaone.net:8080
polk.se.mediaone.net:8080
proxy.argonaut.net:80
proxy.coqui.net:80
proxy.elkgrove.net:80
proxy.golden.net:3000
proxy.golden.net:80
proxy.webbernet.net:80
proxy2.coqui.net:80
rochester.cache.mr.net:3128
salt.wwwcache.ja.net:8080
scone.ukcore.bt.net:3128
server2.vip2000.net:80
sigourney11.lisco.net:80
sprintcache.micron.net:80
sun.hallertau-online.net:80
sys23.hou.wt.net:80
titan.germany.net:80
tproxy.enta.net:80
ts011d32.hil-ny.concentric.net:80
waltz.rahul.net:80
wc1.entelchile.net:80
web-proxy.geo.net:8000
webcache1.th.red.net:80
NI - NICARAGUA PROXY : PORT
cache.tmx.com.ni:80
NL - NETHERLANDS PROXY : PORT
ftp.castel.nl:8080
hades.hro.nl:8080
homepages.harbinger.nl:8080
hpsl.ics.ele.tue.nl:80
merlijn.kabelfoon.nl:80
ns.siteways.nl:8080
ns2.castel.nl:8080
splash.hro.nl:80
splsh1.hro.nl:80
www-proxy.ele.tue.nl:80
www.misc.hro.nl:80
NO - NORWAY PROXY : PORT
alpha1.hnett.no:8080

NZ - NEWZEALAND PROXY : PORT
203-96-95-163.ipnets.xtra.co.nz:8080
ORG - ORGANIZATION PROXY : PORT
basis.desk.org:80
front3.cpl.org:8080
fw.csu.org:80
hgea01.hgea.org:8080
mail.archdiocese-no.org:80
mwc-nv.midwestcentral.org:80
proxy.maryhurst.org:80
proxy.pomfretschool.org:8080
webproxy.einpgh.org:80
PE - PERU PROXY : PORT
alpha.cosapidata.com.pe:80
mailcodata.cosapidata.com.pe:80
tiwinza.unired.net.pe:80
PK - PAKISTAN PROXY : PORT
oolala.aol.net.pk:80
PL - POLAND PROXY : PORT
helios.man.lublin.pl:3128
sunsite.icm.edu.pl:8080
ultra.cto.us.edu.pl:8080
w3cache.us.edu.pl:8080
PT - PORTUGAL PROXY : PORT
beta.di.uminho.pt:80
camoes.rnl.ist.utl.pt:8080
PY - PARAGUAY PROXY : PORT
ns1.infonet.com.py:8080
QT - QUATAR PROXY : PORT
proxy.qatar.net.qa:8080
RO - ROMANIA PROXY : PORT
primarie6.kappa.ro:80
RU - RUSSIA PROXY : PORT
ats-cache-1.rtsnet.ru:80
cp4.mi.ru:80
periscope.opennet.ru:3128
SE - SWEDEN PROXY : PORT
hadar-pgw.hadar.ideon.se:80
hassaleh.tdb.uu.se:8080
linus.af.lu.se:80
utfc2.utfors.se:80
park1.park.se:80
proxy.www.lysator.liu.se:80
SG - SINGAPORE PROXY : PORT
galaxy.singnet.com.sg:80
qt-ce.singnet.com.sg:8080
mars.netspire.com.sg:8080
TH - THAILAND PROXY : PORT
netcache.loxinfo.co.th:80
ns2.a-net.net.th:80
ppp32.a-net.net.th:80
swallow.cat.net.th:8080
proxy.cat.net.th:8080
TR - TURKEY PROXY : PORT
ankara3.turnet.net.tr:8080
proxy1.turnet.net.tr:8080
proxy2.turnet.net.tr:8080
proxy3.turnet.net.tr:8080
TW - TAIWAN PROXY : PORT
c1.h202052106.is.net.tw:80
cache.ht.net.tw:80
cache1.ht.net.tw:80
ctcb.chinatrust.com.tw:8080
CTCB.chinatrust.com.tw:8080
exsrvtpe.phxeng.com.tw:80
fw.cht.com.tw:8080
gis2.epa.gov.tw:8080
proxy.golden.com.tw:8080
proxy.wonder.net.tw:80
server.928.com.tw:3128
www.ecs.com.tw:80
UK - UNITED KINGDOM PROXY : PORT
dexter.midkent.ac.uk:8080
double-panic.lut.ac.uk:8080
horatio.cre.canon.co.uk:8080
isis.uce.ac.uk:80
lux.doc.ic.ac.uk:8000
mailhost.ypo.co.uk:80
mailsun.wcoh.ac.uk:80
mhs.pontypridd.ac.uk:80
ns0.poptel.org.uk:8080
proxy.mistral.co.uk:3128
softy.poptel.org.uk:8080
thingy.eng.abdn.ac.uk:80
vide-gate.coventry.ac.uk:3128
webcache02p.cache.pol.co.uk:80
webcache02s.cache.pol.co.uk:80
webcache09p.cache.pol.co.uk:80
webcache10p.cache.pol.co.uk:80
webcache11p.cache.pol.co.uk:80
webcache18a.cache.pol.co.uk:80
webcache19a.cache.pol.co.uk:80
webcache20a.cache.pol.co.uk:80
webcache20b.cache.pol.co.uk:80
webcache21a.cache.pol.co.uk:80
webcache22a.cache.pol.co.uk:80
webcache23a.cache.pol.co.uk:80
webcache24a.cache.pol.co.uk:80
webcache25a.cache.pol.co.uk:80
webcache26a.cache.pol.co.uk:80
webcachew01a.cache.pol.co.uk:80
webcachew02a.cache.pol.co.uk:80
webcachew03a.cache.pol.co.uk:80
webcachew04b.cache.pol.co.uk:80
webcachew07a.cache.pol.co.uk:80
whisky.colloquium.co.uk:80
www-cache.local.pol.co.uk:80
www-proxy.advsys.co.uk:80
www-proxy.advsys.co.uk:8080
www-proxy.colloquium.co.uk:80
www-proxy.cqm.co.uk:80
wwwadmin.eng.abdn.ac.uk:80
wwwcache.boardwalk-cafe.co.uk:80
wwwcache.pontypridd.ac.uk:80
US - UNITED STATES PROXY : PORT
border.k12.ut.us:8001
border1.k12.ut.us:8001
border2.k12.ut.us:8001
cacheflow.nashville.k12.tn.us:80
citywww.lacc.cc.ca.us:80
dcs.dexter.k12.mi.us:80
eccproxy.essex.cc.md.us:80
firewall.hse.k12.in.us:80
hal.calc.k12.la.us:8080
hpux.mesd.k12.or.us:8080
intergate.avc.cc.ca.us:80
intergate.barstow.cc.ca.us:3128
koa.iolani.honolulu.hi.us:80
kougars.kish.cc.il.us:80
lscc.cc.fl.us:80
mcoeftp.marin.k12.ca.us:80
ns1.keisercollege.cc.fl.us:80
numbers.tvcc.cc.or.us:80
ohs.ocs.k12.al.us:80
p20.s503.c06.k12.wv.us:80
pc103.portage.k12.mi.us:80
pc1879.co.la.ca.us:80
proxy.esu10.k12.ne.us:8080
proxy.eup.k12.mi.us:8080
proxy2.prescott.guilford.k12.nc.us:80
shore-ip003.bromfield.harvard.k12.ma.us:80
svc.nic.k12.ut.us:8001
svc.nues.k12.ut.us:8001
svc.sesc.k12.ut.us:8001
svc.slc1.k12.ut.us:8001
watcher.state.wy.us:80
webdefault.sbcss.k12.ca.us:80
webserver.slco.lib.ut.us:8080
ws122.chs.srvusd.k12.ca.us:80
www-proxy.guilford.k12.nc.us:80
www.essex.cc.md.us:80
www.kirtland.cc.mi.us:80
www.montcalm.cc.mi.us:80
www.rondout.k12.ny.us:80
ycss.yolo.k12.ca.us:80
VE - VENEZUELA PROXY : PORT
proxy03.t-net.net.ve:8080
proxy.telcel.net.ve:80
ZA - SOUTH AFRICA PROXY : PORT
cache.global.co.za:3128
cache.mailnet.co.za:80
cache02.global.co.za:3128
proxy-rnb2.mweb.co.za:80
proxy.cpt.mweb.co.za:80
proxy.pta.mweb.co.za:80
proxyfs1.und.ac.za:8080
ZW - ZIMBABWE PROXY : PORT
proxy.africaonline.co.zw:8080
zm4.zptc.co.zw:8080
proxy.cybergate.co.zw:8080
COMMON USER AGENTS - UA
AltaVista Intranet V2.0 AVS EVAL search@freeit.com
AltaVista Intranet V2.0 Compaq Altavista Eval sveand@altavista.net
AltaVista Intranet V2.0 evreka.com crawler@evreka.com
AltaVista V2.0B crawler@evreka.com
Arachnoidea (arachnoidea@euroseek.com)
ArchitextSpider
AV Fetch 1.0
combine/0.0
Contact
crawler@alexa.com
EchO!/2.0
fly/6.01 libwww/4.0D
GAIS Robot/1.0B2
Go-Ahead-Got-It/1.1
Googlebot/1.0 googlebot@googlebot.com http://googlebot.com/
Gulliver/1.2
ia_archiver
ia_archiver/1.6
InfoSeek Sidewinder/0.9
kulturarw3/0.1
Lotus-Notes/4.5 ( Windows-NT )
LWP::Simple/5.22
Lycos_Spider_(T-Rex)
Lynx/2.6 libwww-FM/2.14
Lynx/2.8rel.2 libwww-FM/2.14
Mozilla/1.22 (compatible; MSIE 2.0d; Windows NT)
Mozilla/2.0 (compatible; AOL 3.0; Mac_PowerPC)
Mozilla/2.0 (Compatible; AOL-IWENG 3.0; Win16)
Mozilla/2.0 (compatible; MSIE 2.1; Mac_PowerPC)
Mozilla/2.0 (compatible; MSIE 3.0; AK; Windows 95)
Mozilla/2.0 (compatible; MSIE 3.0; Update a; AK; Windows 95)
Mozilla/2.0 (compatible; MSIE 3.0; Update a; Windows 95)
Mozilla/2.0 (compatible; MSIE 3.0; Windows 3.1)
Mozilla/2.0 (compatible; MSIE 3.0; Windows 95)
Mozilla/2.0 (compatible; MSIE 3.01; AK; Update B; Windows 95)
Mozilla/2.0 (compatible; MSIE 3.01; Update B; Windows 95)
Mozilla/2.0 (compatible; MSIE 3.01; Windows 95)
Mozilla/2.0 (compatible; MSIE 3.01; Windows NT)
Mozilla/2.0 (compatible; MSIE 3.02; AK; Windows 95)
Mozilla/2.0 (compatible; MSIE 3.02; AK; Windows 95; T2 Win95 9701)
Mozilla/2.0 (compatible; MSIE 3.02; Update a; AK; Windows 95)
Mozilla/2.0 (compatible; MSIE 3.02; Update a; AK; Windows NT)
Mozilla/2.0 (compatible; MSIE 3.02; Update a; AOL 3.0; Windows 95)
Mozilla/2.0 (compatible; MSIE 3.02; Update a; Windows 95)
Mozilla/2.0 (compatible; MSIE 3.02; Update a; Windows NT)
Mozilla/2.0 (compatible; MSIE 3.02; Win32)
Mozilla/2.0 (compatible; MSIE 3.02; Windows 3.1)
Mozilla/2.0 (compatible; MSIE 3.02; Windows 95)
Mozilla/2.0 (compatible; MSIE 3.02; Windows NT)
Mozilla/2.0 (compatible; MSIE 3.0B; Win32)
Mozilla/2.0 (compatible; NEWT ActiveX; Win32)
Mozilla/2.0 (Win95; I)
Mozilla/2.01 (Win16; I)
Mozilla/2.01E-PBXE (Win95; I; 16bit)
Mozilla/2.02 (Win16; I)
Mozilla/2.02Gold (Win95; I)
Mozilla/3.0 (compatible; MuscatFerret/1.5.4; claude@euroferret.com)
Mozilla/3.0 (compatible; MuscatFerret/1.5; olly@muscat.co.uk)
Mozilla/3.0 (compatible; MuscatFerret/1.6.1; claude@euroferret.com)
Mozilla/3.0 (compatible; MuscatFerret/1.6.3; claude@euroferret.com)
Mozilla/3.0 (compatible; Opera/3.0; Windows 3.1) v3.1
Mozilla/3.0 (compatible; Opera/3.0; Windows 95/NT4) 3.2
Mozilla/3.0 (compatible; Opera/3.0; Windows 95/NT4) 3.21
Mozilla/3.0 (Win16; I)
Mozilla/3.0 (Win95; I)
Mozilla/3.0 (Win95; U)
Mozilla/3.0 (WinNT; I)
Mozilla/3.0 (X11; I; OSF1 V4.0 alpha)
Mozilla/3.0 WebTV/1.2 (compatible; MSIE 2.0)
Mozilla/3.01 (compatible; AmigaVoyager/2.95; AmigaOS/MC680x0)
Mozilla/3.01 (Win16; I)
Mozilla/3.01 (Win95; I)
Mozilla/3.01 (WinNT; I)
Mozilla/3.01 (X11; I; SunOS 5.5.1 sun4m)
Mozilla/3.01 (X11; I; SunOS 5.5.1 sun4u)
Mozilla/3.01C-G1 (WinNT; I)
Mozilla/3.01-C-MACOS8 (Macintosh; I; PPC)
Mozilla/3.01C-NetService (Win95; U)
Mozilla/3.01C-XTRA (Win95; I)
Mozilla/3.01Gold (Win16; I)
Mozilla/3.01Gold (Win95; I)
Mozilla/3.01Gold (WinNT; I)
Mozilla/3.01Gold (X11; I; Linux 2.0.32 i486)
Mozilla/3.01Gold (X11; I; SunOS 5.5.1 sun4m)
Mozilla/3.01Gold (X11; I; SunOS 5.6 sun4m)
Mozilla/3.01SGoldC-SGI (X11; I; IRIX 6.3 IP32)
Mozilla/3.02Gold (WinNT; I)
Mozilla/3.03 (Win95; I)
Mozilla/3.03 (WinNT; I)
Mozilla/3.03 (X11; I; SunOS 5.5 sun4u)
Mozilla/3.03Gold (Win95; I)
Mozilla/3.04 (Win16; I)
Mozilla/3.04 (Win95; I)
Mozilla/3.04 (WinNT; I)
Mozilla/3.04 (X11; I; SunOS 5.5.1 sun4u)
Mozilla/3.04 (X11; I; SunOS 5.6 sun4m)
Mozilla/3.04 (X11; I; SunOS 5.6 sun4u)
Mozilla/3.04Gold (Win95; I)
Mozilla/3.04GoldC-PASGEN (Win95; I)
Mozilla/3.0C-NSCP (Win95; U)
Mozilla/3.0C-PASGEN (Win95; I)
Mozilla/3.0Gold (Win16; I)
Mozilla/3.0Gold (Win95; I)
Mozilla/3.0Gold (Win95; I; 16bit)
Mozilla/3.0Gold (WinNT; I)
Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 4.0; Mac_PowerPC)
Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 4.0; MSN 2.5; Windows 95)
Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 4.0; Windows 95)
Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 4.0; Windows NT)
Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 4.0; Windows NT; Snap.home.1)
Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 4.01; AOL 4.0; Windows 98)
Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 4.01; Mac_PowerPC)
Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 4.01; Windows 95)
Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 4.01; Windows 95; Snap.home.5)
Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 4.01; Windows 95; SP/5.0/1.70)
Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 4.01; Windows 95; Torgetcd2)
Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 4.01; Windows 98)
Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 4.01; Windows NT)
Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.0b1; Windows 95)
Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.0b1; Windows NT)
Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.0b2; Windows 95)
Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.0b2; Windows NT)
Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; Opera/3.0; Windows 4.10) 3.51 [en]
Mozilla/4.0 [en] (Win95; I)
Mozilla/4.01 [en] (Win95; I)
Mozilla/4.01 [en] (WinNT; I)
Mozilla/4.02 [en] (Win95; I)
Mozilla/4.02 [en] (WinNT; I)
Mozilla/4.02 [en] (X11; I; SunOS 5.6 sun4u)
Mozilla/4.02 [en]C-AtHome0402 (Win95; U)
Mozilla/4.03 [en] (Win95; I)
Mozilla/4.03 [en] (Win95; I; 16bit)
Mozilla/4.03 [en] (WinNT; I ;Nav)
Mozilla/4.03 [en] (WinNT; I)
Mozilla/4.03 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.32 i486)
Mozilla/4.03 [en] (X11; I; SunOS 5.5.1 sun4u; Nav)
Mozilla/4.03 [en] (X11; I; SunOS 5.6 sun4m)
Mozilla/4.04 (Macintosh; I; PPC)
Mozilla/4.04 (Macintosh; I; PPC, Nav)
Mozilla/4.04 [en] (Win95; I ;Nav)
Mozilla/4.04 [en] (Win95; I)
Mozilla/4.04 [en] (Win95; I; 16bit ;Nav)
Mozilla/4.04 [en] (Win95; I; 16bit)
Mozilla/4.04 [en] (WinNT; I ;Nav)
Mozilla/4.04 [en] (WinNT; I)
Mozilla/4.04 [en] (WinNT; U)
Mozilla/4.04 [en] (X11; I; HP-UX B.10.20 9000/712)
Mozilla/4.04 [en] (X11; I; IRIX 5.3 IP22)
Mozilla/4.04 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.32 i586)
Mozilla/4.04 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.33 i586)
Mozilla/4.04 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.33 i586; Nav)
Mozilla/4.04 [en] (X11; I; SunOS 5.5.1 sun4m)
Mozilla/4.04 [en] (X11; I; SunOS 5.5.1 sun4u)
Mozilla/4.04 [en] (X11; I; SunOS 5.6 sun4m)
Mozilla/4.04 [en] (X11; I; SunOS 5.6 sun4u)
Mozilla/4.04 [en]C-EMW (WinNT; I)
Mozilla/4.04 [en]C-PBI-NC404 (Win95; I)
Mozilla/4.05
Mozilla/4.05 (Macintosh; I; 68K, Nav)
Mozilla/4.05 (Macintosh; I; PPC)
Mozilla/4.05 (Macintosh; I; PPC, Nav)
Mozilla/4.05 [en] (Win16; I ;Nav)
Mozilla/4.05 [en] (Win95; I ;Nav)
Mozilla/4.05 [en] (Win95; I)
Mozilla/4.05 [en] (Win95; U)
Mozilla/4.05 [en] (WinNT; I ;Nav)
Mozilla/4.05 [en] (WinNT; I)
Mozilla/4.05 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.33 i686)
Mozilla/4.05 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.34 i586)
Mozilla/4.05 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.35 i686)
Mozilla/4.05 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.1.108 i586)
Mozilla/4.05 [en] (X11; I; SunOS 4.1.4 sun4m)
Mozilla/4.05 [en] (X11; I; SunOS 5.5.1 sun4m)
Mozilla/4.05 [en] (X11; I; SunOS 5.5.1 sun4u)
Mozilla/4.05 [en] (X11; I; SunOS 5.6 sun4u)
Mozilla/4.06 (Macintosh; I; PPC)
Mozilla/4.06 (Macintosh; I; PPC, Nav)
Mozilla/4.06 [en] (Win95; I ;Nav)
Mozilla/4.06 [en] (Win95; I)
Mozilla/4.06 [en] (Win95; U)
Mozilla/4.06 [en] (Win98; I ;Nav)
Mozilla/4.06 [en] (Win98; I)
Mozilla/4.06 [en] (WinNT; I ;Nav)
Mozilla/4.06 [en] (WinNT; I)
Mozilla/4.06 [en] (X11; I; SunOS 5.5.1 sun4m)
Mozilla/4.06 [en] (X11; I; SunOS 5.5.1 sun4u)
Mozilla/4.06 [en] (X11; I; SunOS 5.6 sun4m)
Mozilla/4.06 [en] (X11; U; SunOS 5.6 sun4m)
Mozilla/4.07 [en] (Win95; I ;Nav)
Mozilla/4.07 [en] (Win95; I)
Mozilla/4.07 [en] (Win98; I ;Nav)
Mozilla/4.07 [en] (Win98; I)
Mozilla/4.07 [en] (WinNT; I)
Mozilla/4.07 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.36 i586)
Mozilla/4.07 [en]C-CCK-MCD (WinNT; I ;Nav)
Mozilla/4.08 [en] (Win95; I ;Nav)
Mozilla/4.08 [en] (Win98; I ;Nav)
Mozilla/4.08 [en] (WinNT; I ;Nav)
Mozilla/4.08 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.36 i586)
Mozilla/4.08 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.36 i686)
Mozilla/4.5 (Macintosh; I; PPC)
Mozilla/4.5 [en] (Win95; I)
Mozilla/4.5 [en] (Win95; U)
Mozilla/4.5 [en] (Win98; I)
Mozilla/4.5 [en] (WinNT; I)
Mozilla/4.5 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.1 i586)
Mozilla/4.5 [en] (X11; I; SunOS 5.5.1 sun4m)
Mozilla/4.5 [en] (X11; I; SunOS 5.5.1 sun4u)
Mozilla/4.5 [en] (X11; I; SunOS 5.6 sun4u)
Mozilla/4.5b1 [en] (Win95; I)
Mozilla/4.5b1 [en] (Win98; I)
Mozilla/4.5b1 [en] (WinNT; I)
Mozilla/4.5b1 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.35 i586)
Mozilla/4.5b2 [en] (Win95; I)
Mozilla/4.5b2 [en] (Win98; I)
Mozilla/4.5b2 [en] (WinNT; I)
Mozilla/4.5b2 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.35 i586)
Mozilla/4.x (Win95)
NeuralBot/0.2
Openfind Robot/1.1A2
OpenTextSiteCrawler/2.2.1
OpenTextSiteCrawler/2.9.2
Scooter/1.0 scooter@pa.dec.com
Scooter/1.1 (custom)
Scooter/2.0 G.R.A.B. V1.1.0
Scooter/2.0 G.R.A.B. X2.0
Slurp/2.0 (slurp@inktomi.com; http://www.inktomi.com/slurp.html)
TE
Ultraseek
WiseWire-Spider2

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Oct 10, 1999 at 16:01:31 (EDT)
From: Raoul
Email: None
To: Blackdog
Subject: Bastardos
Message:
O poço assim que você vêem que mesmo agora eu não sei se você for o Maharaji que real você é todos os bastardos mas ha! você prova meu ponto. Nenhuma desta é real. Mas esse sentimento que eu tenho o interior diz-me que Mharaji me ama sem necessidade da escrita stupid aqui.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Oct 10, 1999 at 20:25:23 (EDT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: Raoul
Subject: Re: Bastardos
Message:
Caro Raoul; como você sabe que Maharaji o ama? É isto nao justo um sonho porque na realidade provavelmente não sabe que você existe.
Você é muito errado. Toda a esta é real e ajudou ao a.lot dos povos.

(The above text in English)
Dear Raoul; how do you know that Maharaji loves you? Is this not just a dream because in reality he probably does not know that you exist.

You are very wrong. All of this is real and it has helped a lot of people.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Oct 10, 1999 at 20:42:37 (EDT)
From: Raoul
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: Re: Bastardos
Message:
Senhor - você é senhor inglês, sim? - eu sei ele sabe que mim estão viva, você não me viu sua mensagem esta tarde? Você diz-se que todos deste são reais, assim por que não que a mensagem dele que diz me o me ama?

I try english too.

He knows I am alive, you no see His message to me after the noon day? You say too all of this is real, why not that letter from Him saying me He loves me?

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Date: Sun, Oct 10, 1999 at 20:54:53 (EDT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: Raoul
Subject: Re: Bastardos
Message:
Tudo é real. Todos experimenta é real e verdadeiro. As experiências dos povos nesta página são tão reais justo quanto sua experiência. Isto é porque você não pode dizer que o que acontece aqui não é real.
Eu não posso comentar em sua letra de Maharaji mas se você for feliz com ele então sorte boa!(and in English)
Everything is real. Everybody's experience is real and true. The experiences of the people on this page are just as real as your experience. This is why you cannot say that what happens here is not real.

I cannot comment on your letter from Maharaji but if you are happy with it then good luck!

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Date: Mon, Oct 11, 1999 at 23:04:03 (EDT)
From: Raoul
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: Re: Bastardos
Message:
Lá você viu aquele. Meu senhor Maharaji pediu que eu venha a sua casa! Agora você não pode dizer-me que não sabe de meu existance. Ha! Assim eu digo agora que o que acontece aqui é real, agradeço-o todo muito muito. O Oh, uma mais coisa, para de por favor chamar-me Rob!
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Date: Tues, Oct 12, 1999 at 03:15:00 (EDT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: Raoul
Subject: Diga a história por favor
Message:
Eu penso ainda que você é rob. Quando você foi à casa de Maharaji e que você fêz lá? Ou talvez você vai no futuro? Você pode dizer-me me que em sua língua e somente a saberá. Eu serei satisfeito ouvir tudo!
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Date: Sun, Oct 10, 1999 at 16:05:30 (EDT)
From: Kermit
Email: None
To: Raoul
Subject: Riveting stuff
Message:
nt
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Date: Sun, Oct 10, 1999 at 12:41:29 (EDT)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: from the bottom
Subject: moving my discussion with the GM up
Message:
I'm not a premie, although I had a flirtation with M + K.

>> Evil is a big word but what could be more evil in our Judeo Christian society than presenting yourself as God when you are not? Please read the lines to Arti, if you allow a person to sing that to you and then bow to you than you are presenting yourself as the Messiah. He ain't the Messiah. So he is evil. The group serves mostly to worship and benefit him. It is evil too. I do not think most premies are evil, but they are involved with something evil. <<
You have probably condemned most organised religions, and disorganised, as being 'evil' with that statement. As far as Jagdoe goes, have you heard what's going on in the Catholic church in Australia as concerns child molestation? Big scandals about priests molesting young boys in their care. But to say the Church is inherently evil is missing the point (I'm not a Christian either) completely. Most Christian priests would see themselves as moral people within the confines of their interpretation of the bible, but there are obviously some very disturbed priests as well. Christianity and any other religion, gives a moral framework for those that need such things, and many people do. And some people need to worship the head of their particular religion. For example, take Buddism, and many, many people feel the need to worship the Buddha, which is kind of strange, considering the words of Buddha.
______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

I think more evil has been done in the name of organized religion than under the guise of any other excuse known to man. But I dissent from the general ex consensus in that I do think there are very big differences between mainstream religions and cults. I do not have time to write a lot on this one though. Basically, the worst cults serve to benefit and worship an individual, tend to discourage bonds with one's family making the cult the 'true' family, generally have some concept such as being 'in your mind' in which all doubts and questioning are quashed as being 'evil' themselves. I do not know of a mainstream religion that serves to benefit and worship one human, only one that worships one who has long ago passed away. I am not an expert on religions, I have only been a part of a cult, never a religion. But at least from the outside Christianity ( unless it is a sect that has become a cult unto itself ) worships God and Jesus ( cynically I must say maybe it is safer to have a dead perfect master, can't insist you send bucks for a gold toilet) they encourage family ties, and if modern Christianity is a cult is a damn poor cult, because the cult member seem to never be able to agree on anything, politics, schools, abortion, anything.....and I do know Christians and Jews who welcome critical thinking. In fact, the best critical thinker I ever met was a Jesuit.

Maybe the difference between a cult and a religion comes down to if it smells like a cult, talks like a cult, and looks like a cult its a cult....works for me. I think Amway is a cult and it has nothing to do with religion.

As far as Jagdeo. The Catholics who covered up and moved around the pedophile priests were cowards. What they did WAS evil as it resulted in more molestations.

How Rawat dealt with a child molesting mahatma was very similar. But truly, you cannot seperate the situation from the problem inherent in the fact I thought I was reporting it to God. Probably Randy did too and Judy too. Ordinarily, if I had met with Jagdeo lets say as a teacher at school, and learned it wasn't just me but younger kids and more serious, as I did in 1977, I would not have kept so quiet about it. I doubt Randy or Judy would have either. I know I thought I was reporting this to GOD. If I reported it to God then I had to trust he did what was right. It was also not up to me how to punish him, it was up to God/Rawat. The whole problem becomes very insidious when one thinks they have reported it to God. I have a very hard time living with this fact, reading Abi's story, knowing my friend in Miami, and knowing that likely there are loads of women in this world with memories of Jagdeo molesting them, and perhaps, if the cult isn't really listening on this, still Jagdeo has special little friends. I wish that somehow I could have become immediatley deprogrammed when it happened and gone to the police. But to me Rawat was so much more powerful than the police. Sad, isn't it.

In a way, what happened among the Catholics is more disgusting. I do not think anyone thought the Bishops and such that moved these molester priests around were God. They just did not want to have to deal with the scandal. A clearer case of self interest. Perhaps they thought that they could get the Priest to repent and he would be cured. A mix of self interest, dangerous religious beliefs, and ignorance about pedophiles? Not too different than what probably happened with Jagdeo.

But look what happened to the kids. I think it is evil. I stand by the word. Read what Abi wrote again and tell me that isn't evil. And tell me letting the man travel the world was not evil.

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Date: Mon, Oct 11, 1999 at 11:58:21 (EDT)
From: Is SHP really the GM????
Email: None
To: all
Subject: Moving up Joey's very good why Jesus and The Guru are different post
Message:
You talk to a Christian and point out that millions have been killed in the name of
Christianity, and that Christianity has changed the way we see the earth (it was once seen as
sacred), with dire consequences. You can talk till your blue in the face, but that Christian will
be able to give many, many reasons why Christianity has been a force for good, in his
opinion. Life just ain't black and white Joey.

Shp,

Your comparison of m and his trip to Christianity is totally odious.

Jesus healed people, Maharajiis cult has made alot of people sick.

Jesus advocated on behalf of the poor and the needy. Maharaji surrounds himself with
wealthy pams(his accomplices) and the rest become victims...emotionally and financially.

Early Christians were killed for their beliefs. Early premies committed suicide, because their
principles and conscience were fucked over by the very master(and his accomplices) who had
come to save them.

When Jesus was held accountable, he ended up dying on a cross. When m's turn comes,
he'll simply skip town with his millions.

None the less its intersting to see Shp, that you're really not as honest or as 'real' as I was
willing to give you credit for. Otherwise you wouldn't have to play games hiding behindn this
'General Manager ' moniker.

Its also interesting to note that you're staking out a claim, that m and his premies represent
an early phase of a 'new religion'. This despite the fact that Maharaji has claimed that he has
no interest in creating a new religion.
Then again, you guys really excell in speaking out of both sides of your mouth.

You can talk till your blue in the face, but that Christian will be able to give many, many
reasons why Christianity has been a force for good, in his opinion.

Christianity began with a master who as I noted was considerably more compassionate,
genuinely more concerned for his fellow man then m will ever be.
And yet it disintegrated in so many ways, that there are those will spell out for you how it has
become a force for evil, as much or if not more, then it has been a force for good.
Again with m starting off at such a ridiculously low point right from the beginning...when his
trip disintegrates, one has to wonder... how low can it go?

Life just ain't black and white Joey.

No thats true...but nor is it as colorful as some kind of psychedelic acid trip, where everything
you see becomes distorted and confused.

Might change my name to Genetically Modified

Hey, why not try...'Genetically Muddled'??

(edit this message)

Send this Message to:

Subject for this Message:

Your Email Address:

Your Name/Alias:

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Date: Mon, Oct 11, 1999 at 21:34:38 (EDT)
From: Shp
Email: None
To: Is SHP really the GM????
Subject: Re: Moving up Joey's very good why Jesus and The Guru are different post
Message:
This is Shp. I did not post as the GM.
I was just scanning the threads this evening after being gone a few days and I found all this inaccurate information spread up and down the site, so I just wanted to let you know that it is not true.
Shp
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Date: Mon, Oct 11, 1999 at 23:43:03 (EDT)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: Shp
Subject: Thanks SHP. I didn't think it was you but I have been fooled before. (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Mon, Oct 11, 1999 at 15:08:06 (EDT)
From: Joey
Email: None
To: Is SHP really the GM????
Subject: Spacing wasn't right. We'll try again
Message:
You talk to a Christian and point out that millions have been killed in the name of
Christianity, and that Christianity has changed the way we see the earth (it was once seen as
sacred), with dire consequences. You can talk till your blue in the face, but that Christian will
be able to give many, many reasons why Christianity has been a force for good, in his
opinion. Life just ain't black and white Joey

Shp,

Your comparison of m and his trip to Christianity is totally odious.

Jesus healed people, Maharajiis cult has made alot of people sick.

Jesus advocated on behalf of the poor and the needy. Maharaji surrounds himself with
wealthy pams(his accomplices) and the rest become victims...emotionally and financially.

Early Christians were killed for their beliefs. Early premies committed suicide, because their
principles and conscience were fucked over by the very master(and his accomplices) who had
come to save them.

When Jesus was held accountable, he ended up dying on a cross. When m's turn comes,
he'll simply skip town with his millions.

None the less its intersting to see Shp, that you're really not as honest or as 'real' as I was
willing to give you credit for. Otherwise you wouldn't have to play games hiding behindn this
'General Manager ' moniker.

Its also interesting to note that you're staking out a claim, that m and his premies represent
an early phase of a 'new religion'. This despite the fact that Maharaji has claimed that he has
no interest in creating a new religion.
Then again, you guys really excell in speaking out of both sides of your mouth.

You can talk till your blue in the face, but that Christian will be able to give many, many
reasons why Christianity has been a force for good, in his opinion.

Christianity began with a master who as I noted was considerably more compassionate,
genuinely more concerned for his fellow man then m will ever be.
And yet it disintegrated in so many ways, that there are those will spell out for you how it has
become a force for evil, as much or if not more, then it has been a force for good.
Again with m starting off at such a ridiculously low point right from the beginning...when his
trip disintegrates, one has to wonder... how low can it go?

Life just ain't black and white Joey.

No thats true...but nor is it as colorful as some kind of psychedelic acid trip, where everything
you see becomes distorted and confused.

Might change my name to Genetically Modified

Hey, why not try...'Genetically Muddled'??

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Oct 11, 1999 at 15:12:11 (EDT)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: Joey
Subject: my fault, I thought your post was too good to leave at the bottom :) (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Mon, Oct 11, 1999 at 15:34:25 (EDT)
From: Joey
Email: None
To: Susan
Subject: Kewl enough Susan:::)) ...and thanks!
Message:
nt
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Date: Mon, Oct 11, 1999 at 15:11:28 (EDT)
From: Joey
Email: None
To: Is Shp the GM??
Subject: Well, thats good enough...now do you care to answer??(nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Mon, Oct 11, 1999 at 14:52:46 (EDT)
From: Joey
Email: None
To: Is SHP really the GM????
Subject: How about using the html??
Message:
You talk to a Christian and point out that millions have been killed in the name of
Christianity, and that Christianity has changed the way we see the earth (it was once seen as
sacred), with dire consequences. You can talk till your blue in the face, but that Christian will
be able to give many, many reasons why Christianity has been a force for good, in his
opinion. Life just ain't black and white Joey.

Shp,

Your comparison of m and his trip to Christianity is totally odious.

Jesus healed people, Maharajiis cult has made alot of people sick.

Jesus advocated on behalf of the poor and the needy. Maharaji surrounds himself with
wealthy pams(his accomplices) and the rest become victims...emotionally and financially.

Early Christians were killed for their beliefs. Early premies committed suicide, because their
principles and conscience were fucked over by the very master(and his accomplices) who had
come to save them.

When Jesus was held accountable, he ended up dying on a cross. When m's turn comes,
he'll simply skip town with his millions.

None the less its intersting to see Shp, that you're really not as honest or as 'real' as I was
willing to give you credit for. Otherwise you wouldn't have to play games hiding behindn this
'General Manager ' moniker.

Its also interesting to note that you're staking out a claim, that m and his premies represent
an early phase of a 'new religion'. This despite the fact that Maharaji has claimed that he has
no interest in creating a new religion.
Then again, you guys really excell in speaking out of both sides of your mouth.

You can talk till your blue in the face, but that Christian will be able to give many, many
reasons why Christianity has been a force for good, in his opinion.

Christianity began with a master who as I noted was considerably more compassionate,
genuinely more concerned for his fellow man then m will ever be.
And yet it disintegrated in so many ways, that there are those will spell out for you how it has
become a force for evil, as much or if not more, then it has been a force for good.
Again with m starting off at such a ridiculously low point right from the beginning...when his
trip disintegrates, one has to wonder... how low can it go?

Life just ain't black and white Joey.

No thats true...but nor is it as colorful as some kind of psychedelic acid trip, where everything
you see becomes distorted and confused.

Might change my name to Genetically Modified

Hey, why not try...'Genetically Muddled'??

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Oct 11, 1999 at 11:48:13 (EDT)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: Susan
Subject: General Manager, let's talk here my hard drive is too small for all 100
Message:
Okay, different people use the word evil with different connotations.

Why did I think Rawat was God? My initial response was to remind you I was 13 when I got
involved with the cult, but I do not think that I was alone in this belief it was held by most of
the premies I knew. Really, in 1975-1979, logically, a person had three choices, Rawat ws
God, Rawat was pretending to be God, or thinking to oneself I know he isn't God but this
Guru trip is such a hoot I will go along for the ride. Remember, we prostrated ourselves to
him, we prayed for his grace, we sang arti ( superior power in person ), kissed his feet,
actually we always capitalized His name, in every way we treated him as the Messiah. Many
people spoke of his 'power' and believed he could do miracles. If most people did not believe
he was God they sure put on a good show! The other choice is he is a fraud. Well, why be a
premie, if you think he is a fraud? Perhaps you have some financial self interest or a loved
one in the cult? Go along for the ride? Not a fun ride. Better rides in my opinion available on
the planet at less personal cost. But I knew a few who were there for the ride. I call them
fringe premies.

The proccess by which one falls for the lie that the Guru is God is I think exactly the same
proccess by which most cults indoctrinate their victims. I wish I had a book to pull out about
common indictrination techniques. But first, you need a person ( future cult member ) who is
vulnerable. They say that most of us, if we look back, were at some crossroads in our lives
when introduced to Rawat's trip. Me, I would say it was that I was in a new Junior High in
search of a peer group. Being a serious minded sort of kid I was not finding one. When I
arrived at the satsang hall all these cool hippie dress people smiled at me, hugged me, and
treated me like I was special I felt like I was among a peer group I could relate too. This is
sort of scary, but it is the truth. I really had an immediate feeling of bonding with the premies.
I always found life among my contemporaries ( kids ) to be harsh, full of bullies and
competitiveness. I liked the surface appearance of love and acceptance among the premies.
Mind you, premies turn out to be just as competitive as a junior high clique, but it isn't
immediately obvious.

So you say, fine, but why don't you just hang out with them, why buy the trip? Well, they all
had Knowledge, and all my new friends and hero's tell me that this Knowledge is the secret of
life. With it, I will always be happy, with it, I will be special, knowing a truth that the world
does not know. So I want it.

Now one gets to be selected by the Mahatma. I think this was a VERY important part of the
hook. This is where the hours upon hours of waiting and stress come in. It is stressed by the
Mahatma you have to have, no doubts, a guileless heart and in my K session many had to
say they would cut off their heads for the Guru. Wonderful screening proccess. Brilliant in
fact, for weeding out those who are still thinking for themselves and not just accepting the
crap. There was also a real power in watching the Mahatma tell someone else they were not
ready, or not pure enough, and then I was. I was pure. I was ready. I was special. Special, or
just a bigger fool, which do you think I chose to believe?

The K session. By this point you have been on a marathon and are in eager anticipation. All
this Indian hocus pocus, strange language smells and ritual adds to the authenticity. But I
remember well my first thought when the guy came round and pressed on my eyeballs and
and I saw the light, well, first I thought, ouch!, but then I thought, 'this always happens when I
rub my eyes'. Okay, that is a logical thought, but I already have the answer to that thought, I
am in my mind, leave no room for doubt in my mind. If I raise my hand, and say, sir, I always
see light when I press on my eye balls, I am ejected from my group, and admitting that up
until this point I have been a fool of mammoth proportions.

After the K session, everyone loves you, you are part of the group. The smiling friends want to
know about your experience. It really is like the emporers new clothes. They all see the
clothes, I don't, well, maybe I do, I am in my mind, I wish I were a good devotee like them,
maybe someday I will be, I am just bad that I have these doubts, I will not tell anyone, my
secret, the experience was beautiful.

Believing the Guru is God is the same. I have bought that he has presented me with the
secrets of the universe. Everyone else believes he is God. I have doubts, but I force them
back. I have no doubts that my mind is evil just as the Guru points out in all his satsangs. He
is right, my mind is ALWAYS doubting. He, God, doesn't have something wrong with him. I
do. He is God and I am an imperfect devotee. I am among the elite group of devotees of the
Living Perfect Master, There are many moments I am overcome by a feeling of bliss. There
are many moments of doubt, the guru said I have to battle that mind. He is right. I bow down
before such a wonderful Lord.

(edit this message)

Send this Message to:

Subject for this Message:

Your Email Address:

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Date: Mon, Oct 11, 1999 at 01:52:00 (EDT)
From: bill
Email: None
To: Susan
Subject: Re: moving my discussion with the GM up
Message:
I agree with your calling it evil.

You are too kind when you say 'sad isnt it?'
More than sad, and even worse because it still goes on.
More recruits all the time.
More tentacles in the third world countries.

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Date: Sun, Oct 10, 1999 at 10:01:31 (EDT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Anth's other birthday
Message:
Dear Anth,
I was thinking of you and your party on Friday night. I know it was great fun and of course wish I had been there. Happy 50th dear. You are a great guy, really, fun loving and caring.
Love,
Robyn the Birthday Goddess :)
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Date: Sun, Oct 10, 1999 at 10:15:47 (EDT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: Robyn
Subject: the birthday goddess looses her title
Message:
Dear Anth,
I beg your forgiveness and now see that I do not deserve my former title of Birthday Goddess. I have been waiting for today to start your birthday thread. I just did it and was going to shut off the computer when I thought, June 10th...October SIXTH!!!!!! NOT TENTH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Jesus!!! This is really how I am, I am a space cadette!!!!!! So sorry dear, you deserved better, a greeting ON you birthday.
Love,
bad Robyn
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Date: Mon, Oct 11, 1999 at 15:00:48 (EDT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Robyn
Subject: Truly a birthday Godess
Message:
Ah Robyn,

you are so modest about your divine powers. You are truly a birthday goddess, having given me an extra birthday in June, you use your creative powers to revive my birthday on the 10/10/99, when, in reality, my birthday is continuing anyway, in the form of a hangover.

Truly a wonderful time was has by all on Friday night. Jethro, Hamzen, CdM and LdM all made it, and Hamzen did an hour or so's DJing.

Things started to get a bit fuzzy around 4 am, but we lasted another hour and a half before stumbling out onto the street. I spent the weekend on the sofa, chatting to Ricola and watching Rugby, not feeling too bad. But today I had to get up and go to work and it feels like the hangover is kicking in, after hiding quietly for two days, waiting for me to make a move.

Take care Robyn.

Anth the Neveragain.

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Date: Wed, Oct 13, 1999 at 13:00:48 (EDT)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Partygoers ID
Message:
Anth & Company: Did Glen show up and bring an apology from M re: Jagdeo?
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Date: Tues, Oct 12, 1999 at 07:05:10 (EDT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Re: Truly a birthday Godess
Message:
Dear Anth,
You are so sweet, thanks. :) I was thinking maybe I just gave you a 3rd birthday and you would get to be Queen with all those birthdays! ;) We know you have the wardrobe or at least a start! :)
I tired some home made honey wine the other day, and then some more and some more. Ummmmmmmm. I didn't really have a hang over just felt all spacey the next day but then that could have just happened anyway. :)
Love,
Robyn the loyal subject
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Date: Sun, Oct 10, 1999 at 09:15:07 (EDT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: david@xyzx.freeserve.co.uk
To: All
Subject: Too late for you, Maharaji
Message:
The primative and medieval beliefs which Maharaji and his mahatmas brought to the West have slowly been shown up to be what they are - a bunch of fairy stories and superstitions.

For a while during the seventies, a large group of people in the West were ill-informed enough to swallow this belief system and Maharaji had his 'Golden Age' allbeit a very shortlived one.

However, now with the growth of the internet such archaic beliefs are shown up in the clear light of day and while Maharaji may try desperately to create a believable presence for himself on the net, there is now just too much contrary information available for people which shows them that Maharaji isn't anything special and his philosophy is bankrupt and devoid of any life and soul.

There will always be people in the world for any trip that is going and Maharaji will always have his staunch devotees to the end but the overall growth of Maharaji's 'mission' can now only decline and it is only a matter of time before India and other developing countries all get netted up and then it will be even harder for him to convince people that he is anything special.

The 'knowledge' that Maharaji keeps so secret and reveals so grudgingly and with such ceremony will for ever be available free on the internet for anyone who is interested. Eventually, there will be free, online meditation support groups providing people with excellent help if they want to pursue meditation and this help will be far more useful than the 'trust and let go' kind of help which Maharaji has offered (mainly because he hadn't got a clue what meditation was about).

But let us not be deluded here; Maharaji's trip was never about meditation but was about the worship of him as God or the highest manifestation of God on this planet. Now such a myth is laughable and that one trump card which Maharaji held for so long has now been shown to be merely a joker.

Indeed, Maharaji is the biggest joker and the slipperiest of gurus to come from India. He will change like a chameleon in order to survive and contradict himself time and time again. He really should have taken up politics like his brother!

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Date: Sun, Oct 10, 1999 at 08:53:21 (EDT)
From: Enough
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Spread this Knowledge: An Economic
Message:
Interpretation

Grandpappy Hans told his son Prem (or Satpal)to spread this virus. So, why isn't he doing it? Time is short. He's an overweight middle aged man now.

With a few exceptions, Prem's focus is on major cities in the western world. Doesn't he care about the people in small towns or those in many third world countries. Those few that he does go to, IMO are merely window dressing or in the case of India, an inherited huge population base. After all, a rupee is a rupee.

I'm sure cult apologists can put a different spin on my conclusions, but, IMO he is either a lazy uncaring Satguru or could he just possibly be going for the GOLD.

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Date: Sun, Oct 10, 1999 at 14:40:57 (EDT)
From: JW
Email: None
To: Enough
Subject: Yes, and Notice Also
Message:
Maharaji has not placed his lotus toes anywhere behind the former iron curtain. No venturing to Eastern Europe or the former Soviet Union. Likely not enough money there and the likelihood of too few converts to make it economically worthwhile. Nor has he ever ventured into China, the most populous nation on earth, nor into the Arab world, although he might be a bit nervous about that.

Instead, he focuses on India and Indian diaspora in placed like Mauritius, Malaysia and parts of Africa. In the west, he has apparently given up on trying to get new devotees. He just tries to just hold on to some Western holdovers from the 70s who are so programmed and unable to view M with any objectivity whatsoever that he couldn't DRIVE them away. From what I've seen, people who have received knowledge in the 90s in the West have pretty much all abandoned him and his cult. I thought for awhile that Central and South America might be fertile ground for him, but it appears that hasn't worked out too well either.

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Date: Mon, Oct 11, 1999 at 16:58:47 (EDT)
From: Joey
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: Shalom to my Ex 'Boss'!!
Message:
Nor has he ever ventured into China, the most populous nation on earth, nor into the Arab world, although he might be a bit nervous about that.

One exception in the Middle East is Israel. I've never heard of m having any events there, but I do understand that there was a significant and active Israeli premie community at least before the advent of the internet.
I'll tell ya, Maharaji must love his Jews.( I wonder why:::)) He even made it a point of wishing us a Happy Chanukah at the last Long Beach I attended in 96.
It was an incredibly blissful moment, but I guess you just had to be Jewish to appreciate it.
That is Jewish and....demented:::))

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Date: Tues, Oct 12, 1999 at 00:44:05 (EDT)
From: Jethro
Email: None
To: Joey
Subject: Re: Shalom to my Ex 'Boss'!!
Message:
Joey, M was banned from enetering Israel some time in the 80s. However he did enter and did a quick program before the authorities realised. I had(have?) a copy of an article about this from the Jewish Chronicle where they say he entered on a passport under a different name, did a quickie program for about 300 people and then split, I'll try and find the article and post it here.
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Date: Tues, Oct 12, 1999 at 15:09:35 (EDT)
From: Joey
Email: None
To: Jethro
Subject: Re: Shalom to Jethro!!
Message:
Thanks for that info Jethro. Hope I'll be posting or peeking in at that time to see it.

all the best,

Joey

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Date: Mon, Oct 11, 1999 at 17:03:44 (EDT)
From: Joey
Email: None
To: Joey
Subject: PS: Re: Israel
Message:
I've heard that generally speaking...Israel is currently a happenin hotspot for cults.
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Date: Mon, Oct 11, 1999 at 15:11:12 (EDT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: New premies don't stick around
Message:
Hi JW,

I think he's sown the seeds of his own decline in the West. The hardcore old time premies, who are in positions of authority, or trust, close to Maharaji, all see him as the 'Perfect Master' 'Lord' type person, as he sees himself. (I can't believe he's put that 'Perfect Master lineage bullshit up on his website. This shows he still believes it too.)

So on the inside, we've got an 'avatar of the age' cult. Outside, we've got these watered down techniques, and a 'teacher'. If you get past the flowers and waterfall videos, get knowledge and start to hang around premies, you soon sniff what's going on on the inside. It's at that point you can't see most arses for dust.

Anth the Social Historian.

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Date: Mon, Oct 11, 1999 at 18:40:28 (EDT)
From: JW
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Re: New premies don't stick around
Message:
Yes, he does have a problem in those contradictions. And it's pretty clear the premies have no idea how to present Maharaji.

When ELK first got online, I read a statement from Andy Perl. He was lamenting that there was almost zero propogation going on in North America because the premies were uncomfortable about how to present Maharaji, or even to talk about their involvement with their friends and business associates. He also said that the 'events' were too much like the meetings of a club. I was surprised that ELK put it up. Of course, Andy was saying that the premies were lacking in 'understanding' not that there was anything inherently wrong with the obvious contradictions between what Maharaji says and how he acts.

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Date: Mon, Oct 11, 1999 at 18:30:19 (EDT)
From: Fred
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: M's First Commandment:LEAVE NO ROOM FOR DOUBT IN YOUR MIND
Message:
Nice to see you back. Many happy returns Anthony!

Thinking of what you were saying I recalled the pictures on the wall at Prem Negar Ashram of all the perfect masters. These were not the same lineage that m proclaimed recently on his web-site. They were much more run of the mill than the 'holy' Sant Mat Tradition. There was Buddha, Jesus, Krishna, Mohammed and Guru Nanak and m's dad. What a sham! No wonder they were erased from my story on ELK. I wondered about that.

I was also reminded of m's 'holy' commandments in the 70's. Don't put off tomorrow what you can do today which I felt was particularly unholy somehow. And the biggie REMOVE ALL DOUBT FROM YOUR MIND or LEAVE NO ROOM FOR DOUBT IN YOUR MIND. The bottom line in all cult brainwashing.

Freed

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Date: Mon, Oct 11, 1999 at 17:03:16 (EDT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Old timers not so much either
Message:
I've received some news from someone just today, and it looks like old timers also get bored of the constant fundraisings, and very interested by these documents on Rawat's Indian background.

He's after money like crazy, more than ever!

Not that many people buy into your crap anymore Rawat!

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Date: Mon, Oct 11, 1999 at 17:08:43 (EDT)
From: Joey
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Re: Old timers
Message:
In fact JM, I've been told by the director of INFO CULT here in Montreal, that he's seeing long time members of all kinds of cults leaving like never before.

It seems to be an almost universal phenomenon here in the West.

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Date: Mon, Oct 11, 1999 at 17:08:20 (EDT)
From: Joey
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Re: Old timers no so much either
Message:
In fact JM, I've been told by the director of INFO CULT here in Montreal, that he's seeing long time members of all kinds of cults leaving like never before.

It seems to be an almost universal phenomenon here in the West.

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Date: Mon, Oct 11, 1999 at 18:36:49 (EDT)
From: Fred
Email: None
To: Joey
Subject: Cult Buster that thinks m is O.K.
Message:
Where I live there is a cult buster who has been busting cults for at lest the last twenty years. When I phoned to ask her what she thought of Maharaji she said she had really liked the premies she had met and so thought m must be O.K. 13-5edoifjd bnc???? What do you make of that then?
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Date: Mon, Oct 11, 1999 at 20:57:21 (EDT)
From: Joey
Email: None
To: Fred
Subject: Cult educator who's beginning to worry about m's cult
Message:
I recently spoke to a psychology teacher who specializes in cult education. Her view of a lot of cults is that they're emerging new religions and that the attack against them in many cases constitutes a violation of human rights. She had a similar view of m's cult as the cult buster you referred to in your post.
But when we discussed the Jagdeo issue and then the very significant number of premie suicides, she became alarmed and acknowledged that that they're may be more wrong than right in the world of m and his premies.
So if premies haven't told this cult buster the real story...will you??
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Date: Mon, Oct 11, 1999 at 22:45:23 (EDT)
From: Fred
Email: None
To: Joey
Subject: Will I?
Message:
Very rarely someone new comes to our premie community. If they do come they don't usually stay long. I don't think the cult buster would have much work to do here.

Fred

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Date: Mon, Oct 11, 1999 at 06:29:04 (EDT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: And don't forget the commission
Message:
He gets from hotels booked to westerners through EV's system: 5-10%.

Plus the 'special accomodation' in the IOC in Delhi, for some 100 or so lucky westerners who pay about $ 300 that's very likely funnelled to Rawat through the 'special guest registration system ' in UK.....

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Date: Mon, Oct 11, 1999 at 11:13:00 (EDT)
From: JW
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: JM, Please Explain
Message:
Are you saying that for programs in India that Maharaji collects $300 from 100 westerners for the privilege of getting special seating? Is that what it is? A cool $30,000 for essentially nothing except getting to be at the front of the line?

And I agree that there are likely all kinds of kickbacks in the cult organization. Plane tickets, hotels, entrance fees, 'reserved seating' fees. Also, I think Grace was saying that her closeness to the stage at programs, where he assigned seat was, seemed to be directly tied to the amount of money she donated to the Maharaji cult. You wouldn't even have to explicitly announce those arrangements, even premies would figure that out pretty quickly.

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Date: Mon, Oct 11, 1999 at 15:31:53 (EDT)
From: Joey
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: Re: Hotel kickbacks
Message:
And I agree that there are likely all kinds of kickbacks in the cult organization.

Forget 'likely' as far as hotel kickbacks were concerned. Thats EXACTLY how it was. In fact premies have been encouraged to always ask for the 'special' EV group rate when booking hotels for events.
Yes, very special!
In fact, if you were into saving a few bucks, you would quickly find out that the EV group rate was HIGHER than the one you could obtain by calling the hotel and simply booking your own arrangements without even mentioning 'Elan Vital'
In other words, we're talking healthy kickbacks!

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Date: Mon, Oct 11, 1999 at 22:50:21 (EDT)
From: Fred
Email: None
To: Joey
Subject: Re: Hotel kickbacks
Message:
I did notice once that the hotel rates were MUCH higher when the event was on than normal rates.

Strange or not?

Fred

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Date: Tues, Oct 12, 1999 at 15:02:47 (EDT)
From: Joey
Email: None
To: Fred
Subject: ATTENTION PREMIES: re: hotel rates at events
Message:
My point is this. The hotel rate, whatever it may be at the time of the event is almost always lower than the Elan Vital rate.

So my advice to premies if they want to save money is as follows.

1) Break free fom the cult. That'll probably be the biggest money saver of your life.

2)Failing that, and if you are travelling to an event, when making your hotel reservations , do it in the following way.
-Phone the hotel and say that you are thinking of visiting____(wherever the event is being held) and that if they can offer you a good rate, then you'd be more than happy to stay with them.

-Do not, I repeat, DO NOT... mention that you are part of Elan Vital. 9 times out of 10, you'll end up getting a considerably better rate than the EV rate.

-Finally...do not feel guilty about it. You're being milked in other ways!

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Date: Wed, Oct 13, 1999 at 03:34:29 (EDT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Joey
Subject: I'll tell you why
Message:
If you book by yourself, and say you're a part of EV's group, they'll automatically give a % to EV, in the form of free rooms, for instance 1 free room for 10 rooms booked and paid by individuals.
Then those 'free' rooms will be alloted to some EV's trusted persons (I've been one of them on several occasions), and these persons will 'give' the cost of their rooms directly to Rawat.

Same thing for airplane's tickets. I've done that too.

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Date: Mon, Oct 11, 1999 at 13:28:09 (EDT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: Re: JM, Please Explain
Message:
I've been housed there myself a couple of times, maybe more.

The IOC is a small buiding complex very close to Rawat's house on the land. Same thing in Amaroo by the way, except that it holds much more premies - in tents. This is one of the pictures you'll find on one of the EV sites, showing the rooms for the 'ashram residents' - when they actually live in dirty places. I have some pictures of the place and I'll have them online, soon....

You'll pay $ 3 or 400, be allowed to sleep and have meals there, 2 per room, each room sharing bathroom and shower wih the next one. You'll also get special darshan there, when Rawat walks the ashram. This special area is reserved, and you need a special pass to access. Security watching day and night. The problem in the IOC is that it's much warmer than in other places of the ashram...

Most of those premies sleeping there have a seat in the special guests area, frontstage. Big issue for security.

The problem is that quite some premies can afford paying the special fee, but the number is limited. You have to register months in advance in order to get a place, and it's always filled by organisers and EV's VIPs. Maybe the ticket is even more expensive now .... anybody been there ? .... Come on, URL, how much did you pay ?

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Date: Mon, Oct 11, 1999 at 05:07:35 (EDT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: Revolutions in SAM
Message:
I've also heard that premies made a sort of revolution there, in one of the countries, Venezuala I think, where he purchased that land in La Tierra. He himself addressed the issue in organizers' conference I've attended. He wasn't talking about the premies' reaction, but of the necessity of organizing events according to HIS standards ....

They've prepared an event for him in the late 80s, and asked for such a high fee at the entrance that most of the premies refused to pay, and started a revolution.

He's now very shy going there. He just has now programs in Mexico for sam premies who can afford it....

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Date: Mon, Oct 11, 1999 at 05:16:00 (EDT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: About India
Message:
One could also wonder how he manages to make money in India, as the vast majority of premies is very poor.

Lets say most of the Indian premies give an average of 100 Rupees each, that makes
100 R x 30,000 = 3,000,000 R = $ 100,000

+ 1,000 westerners giving an average of $ 100 = $ 200,000

Which is not that bad.....

If they have a system like in Africa, where every active premie gives something like 10 or 20 R a month to EV to save for the next program .... make your calculations.

Specially when he doesn't show up for some reason, and they don't give the money back!

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Date: Sat, Oct 09, 1999 at 21:26:05 (EDT)
From: Forum Friends
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Bobby's thread
Message:
What is up with Bobby?
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Date: Sat, Oct 09, 1999 at 14:43:28 (EDT)
From: Roger Rushdie eDrek
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Seems that not everybody likes me
Message:
I rarely get any email feedback at the House of Maharaji Drek and no one ever sends me any money, but I got this today from Ayatollah Shannon of Austria:

Hi there,

nice picture of Maharaji. Why not try this trick on Jesus Christ, Buddha or Mohammed - exspecially in Iran or Iraq? - Enjoy the feedback!

Shannon, is this like a Fatwa where I had better go into hiding?

Here's the picture. Is it that bad? I think the photographer should be blamed and not me.

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Date: Sun, Oct 10, 1999 at 10:05:02 (EDT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: Roger Rushdie eDrek
Subject: Re: Seems that not everybody likes me
Message:
Dear Rog,
God what would that guy think if he saw the one that has been linked to at AG lately! :) I think this picture is really one of the best I've seen!
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Sat, Oct 09, 1999 at 15:03:42 (EDT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: david@xyzx.freeserve.co.uk
To: Roger Rushdie eDrek
Subject: Re: Seems that not everybody likes me
Message:
You haven't put the URL into the House of Drek link in the above post and it links to Paradise instead.

That's one heavy looking dude in that picture of Maharaji. He looks like he's experiencing THAT frustration or THAT anger. Why oh why doesn't Maharaji just step down off his throne and abdicate from his almightyness.

Lesson One in 'Learning More' Maharaji - treat other people as your equals and they will treat you with likewise respect. Treat them with contempt and you'll get it all thrown back in your face; and some!

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Date: Sat, Oct 09, 1999 at 15:24:05 (EDT)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: Now, that's a mistake!
Message:
You haven't put the URL into the House of Drek link in the above post and it links to Paradise instead.

I didn't link it back to that horrid cesspool Anything Goes site, did I?

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Date: Sat, Oct 09, 1999 at 17:10:45 (EDT)
From: Grace
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: That other picture
Message:
Hey Drek, you're o.k. with me if that means anything. Anyway, where the heck was that TOPLESS picture of Maharaji--you know which one I mean, I'm sure. (The doctored up one). I was just looking to figure out which site it was on and can't find it.
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Date: Sat, Oct 09, 1999 at 18:16:34 (EDT)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: None
To: Grace
Subject: Hmmm, let's see here
Message:
Grace, Grace with 'G', 'R', 'A', 'C', 'E'. Hmmmm, I don't see your name in my list of paid members at the House of Maharaji Drek. Perhaps, your check is in the mail?

Now, which picture do you want? The notorious dirty one that someone hacked onto my site or the more modest one?

Either way, I had nothing to do with either of them. I was not the original artist. I've heard rumors that the original artist has gone into deep hiding.

Finally, I stongly urge that those who are squeamish (sp?) or those who are not over the age of 18 or where viewing such material is not legal that you do not view those pictures!

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Date: Sun, Oct 10, 1999 at 02:53:04 (EDT)
From: JW
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: Re: Hmmm, let's see here
Message:
Too cool, Roger. Well done. I think the breast implants only increased the size of his boobs slightly anyway.

I remember in about 1979 mentioning to one of the sisters in the Chicago ashram about Maharaji's 'titties' after a festival at which he displayed them, bouncing around while he was 'dancing' topless for what seemed like hours on end. Her face turned red and she was so weirded out by the comment that she had to leave the room.....It was kind of funny, but I feared I would be kicked out of the ashram for lacking the proper 'understanding.' Fortunately, I think she was SO weirded out by the comment that she repressed that it ever happened and never mentioned it to anyone.

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Date: Sun, Oct 10, 1999 at 13:22:51 (EDT)
From: Joey
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: OMIGOD!!!!
Message:
Will you guys just stop it?!! Stop it right now!!

I mean Maharaji's titties might be the 'VITAL' in 'ELAN VITAL.' Premies need something to suck on, and how much nectar do you think anyone can handle??

Sheesh!! You guys just have no respect!:::))

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Date: Sat, Oct 09, 1999 at 13:41:35 (EDT)
From: Deerskin
Email: None
To: All
Subject: fraud
Message:
M is a fraud.I'd be delighted to see him rewarded legally as he deserves it.I'd like to join in an action against him.As a victim , I think this is a good way to heal.
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Date: Fri, Oct 08, 1999 at 20:32:10 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: All
Subject: What does this 'poem' reveal?
Message:
Feeling that is, was, and will be
A gentle love free
No consideration for tomorrow
Space for joy, none for sorrow
Heightened affection grows
No dismal to and fro
Together, but separated for long
Alas. Heart grows strong
No definite course to take
Elated with the heart, I awake
No conclusion to reach
Feeling to learn, feeling to teach
I wonder why this is so hard
But have I ever heard my heart?
In silence I learn to listen
In simple joy I begin to glisten
All thoughts seem so distant
Want to feel only the instant
The clever in me wants to fear
The heart in me wants the dear
Conflict is, but will be over
Heart will win, I will be sober
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Date: Mon, Oct 11, 1999 at 15:24:26 (EDT)
From: People's Poet
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Needs more work
Message:
It's all a bit 'ham'
'cos it don't scan,
too many syllabuls on some of the lines,
where it looks alright, but doesn't work fine,
lousy imagery
full of gimmicry,
awful rhymes
quite out of time
what's his day job?
tell me more,
(He shouldn't give it up, for sure).
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Date: Sun, Oct 10, 1999 at 02:28:42 (EDT)
From: JW
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Re: What does this 'poem' reveal?
Message:
I know Jim. That 'poem' is just about as pathetic as it gets. But it has already been analyzed, but thanks for dissecting it again. I think while you were blocked, the forum had Dr. Frasier Crane and Dr. Joyce Brothers analyze the 'poem' and they both concluded it was writen by a delusional, megamoniacal psychopath with a god complex. They also said he was a sex and drug addict and that part of his delusional thinking was likely based on a serious conflict with his mother, and perhaps even his father, both of whom he is STILL trying to please even though they are both dead as door nails, and he feels he is a terrible failure, probably because he was instructed to bring peace to the world and has been a miserable failure and based also on his having a very small, likely microscopic, penis. Hence he drowns his severe feelings of inadequacy in drugs, alcohol, sex, and a pathological need to be worshipped. They said it was the worst case of a deluded mind they had ever seen.
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Date: Fri, Oct 08, 1999 at 21:07:54 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: I'll answer my own question (no, this is NOT what they call mental masturbation)
Message:
Feeling that is, was, and will be
A gentle love free
No consideration for tomorrow
Space for joy, none for sorrow
Heightened affection grows
No dismal to and fro
Together, but separated for long

Let's stop right there. This person is obviously not a poet. In fact, it seems as if they're hardly literate. I'm not saying this is the work of a lesser mind but there are certain markers one watches for in poetry, something that announces the poignancy of a well-considered sentiment. Poetry is not common speech and should, one would hope, transcend the cliches and half-formed thoughts of daily life. It definitely shouldn't be a repository for them. This 'work', unfortunately, starts with such little promise it's startling that an adult would publish it under his or her own name for the whole world to see, no less. It looks as if he's done nothing more than leap from rhyme to common rhyme, without 'consideration' for anything much at all. It's about depth but it screams superficiality. It's hokey, undercooked and stale in any event. It's a doodle that should never have made its way to paper, let alone the the public.

Alas. Heart grows strong
No definite course to take

I understand this poem is by the cult leader, Maharaji. Followers should take note the malaise he's admitting in the phrase above. 'Alas' he moans though his 'heart grows strong' (whatever that means) he has 'no definite course to take.' So the guru has a feeling and that's about it. This can't possibly be the same guru who promised to guide the whole world to the exalted state of god-realization, could it? He's directionless. He says so himself. Again, quite poorly.

Elated with the heart, I awake
No conclusion to reach
Feeling to learn, feeling to teach
I wonder why this is so hard
But have I ever heard my heart?

More bad verse remarkable only as an indicator of the guru's serious confusion. If one of his followers sent him this sonnet of confusion, the guru'd be the first one to ridicule it! Yet here he is, wallowing in his puffy stagnancy. Although he's been navel-gazing for years, even that seems a challenge. Perhaps he can't even find his navel. Well, whatever the problem, I'm not going to get sucked into it with him. This man needs help, not encouragement. He also should stop taking money from others immediately. He's not positioned to give counsel on any level. With a small bit of editing he could better use this poem as a confession and letter of resignation from his 'ministry'.

In silence I learn to listen
In simple joy I begin to glisten

really, REALLY bad. Yech! I've personally seen this guy glisten and, believe me, it isn't pretty. This is a bad image for anyone to have to endure. I'd take it out right now if it were up to me. Unfortunately it isn't. The poem comes from the guru's web site which has more copyright protections than ELK, if you can believe that. I've tried to contact the guru a number of times, not just to discuss his poetry but for a number of reasons. I guess he's really busy (I hear he's also a successful inventor AND investor) because so far, nothing. But, honestly, this image is ugly and the rhyme is obviously forced. Please.

All thoughts seem so distant
Want to feel only the instant
The clever in me wants to fear
The heart in me wants the dear

Any who claim this guru is not 'anti-mind' should explain the phrase above. Pol Pot killed off all the intellectuals (e.g. people with glasses). Maharaji just tries to repress them. There is no place for 'clever' in this man's world. 'Clever' equals 'fear'. Need I say more? No wonder people like Chris Dickey and Brian Gaudet thrive in this environment! This isn't stagnation, it's devolution. We are not men, we are devo! Bad, really bad.

Conflict is, but will be over
Heart will win, I will be sober

Much has been said about the guru's alcoholism, his fitful unease with strangers, his furtive moodiness. Perhaps this reference is the first step towards sobriety, an admission, if you will, that there's a problem. Perhaps the guru should stop writing such drivel and worrying too hard about this horror fantasy of eternal cleavage between the 'heart' and 'mind' and should get involved in a 12-step program. Of course, he'll probably have to admit that there's a higher power in his life but if that's a problem I hear they've even found a way to incorporate the 12-step regimen for atheists. Is there a number in Malibu he can call? Someone should help this man. Now, before he writes anymore of this stuff.

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Date: Sat, Oct 09, 1999 at 14:14:12 (EDT)
From: guru is greater than god
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Re: I'll answer my own question (no, this is NOT what they call mental masturbation)
Message:
'I wonder why this is so hard'

Well duh.
It was a lot easier when all I had to do was
say 'do ss&m' and 'surrender' and just pile on the
demands for stuff I wanted.
No problems when everyone was all lined up to kiss my feet
and I could be pissed at everyone and give them
hell and I was just god incarnate blowing off some steam.

'no consideration for tomorrow'
Gee, I assumed mom would just 'get it' and return in
time to crown me at a future event.
And when bal bhag wan ji got back in the darshan line,
I was gonna lift my foot and bonk him in the nose to
remind him to follow his breath next time his mind wants
to question the master of life.
I was planning to let Bhole ji have a band again after
he groveled enough after returning to his senses and
returning to my feet.
I figured my boys would want the guru mantle and crown
and be at my right hand side stand up and lead arti at
the programs. I was worried one of the boys would
kill the other like the princes of old would do.
I didnt think they would follow me in drinking and
smokeing pot!
I finally got Marolyn consistantly in place now that
her brain put her mind down.
It is so hard to quite the ex premies and I tried posting
under different names, like SHP and URL ect...

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Date: Sat, Oct 09, 1999 at 15:11:06 (EDT)
From: Shp
Email: None
To: guru is greater than god
Subject: Re: I'll answer my own question (no, this is NOT what they call mental masturbation)
Message:
This is a statement to the effect that I posted under my own steam and not under anyone's else's influence or direction. Shp

It's easy to let your mouth flap in cyberspace, isn't it? Must be the zero gravity out here that allows your mouth to flap and the absence of personal accountability that allows you the right to trash whoever you feel like in your madness. And you justify your own bullshit by pointing out what you perceive as someone else's bullshit, and so the dance continues.

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Date: Sat, Oct 09, 1999 at 15:32:22 (EDT)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: None
To: Shp
Subject: Yes, but it is OUR HOUSE!
Message:
Like young Ben Lurking said:

you and your buddies act as though we were standing up in your church and slamming your god. We are slamming your master but we are doing it in our house.

Like we should listen to you and adhere to your rules?

Many of us would like to see the fall of the House of Rawat high up in the hills of Malibu. At the very least we'd like to present a wristwatch to each and every one of the 99% who ever received Knowledge and dontated one iota of time or money and then left the cult.

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Date: Sat, Oct 09, 1999 at 17:26:57 (EDT)
From: Shp
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: Re: Yes, but it is my name.
Message:
OK, it's your house and you can do what you want. But your little house in within a bigger house in which I exist too. If you want to act accordingly, please leave my name out of your stuff unless I'm directly involved. It's that thing about not slamming folks who aren't around, even if it is your house.
Totally optional and requiring a degree of class and decency independent of anyone else's behavior.
And you are right, I have no right to expect that standard, even though I am willing to treat you kindly.
Shp
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Date: Sat, Oct 09, 1999 at 21:26:51 (EDT)
From: CD
Email: None
To: Shp
Subject: Re: Yes, but it is my name.
Message:
>. It's that thing about not slamming folks who aren't around, even if it is your house. Totally optional and requiring a degree of class and decency independent of anyone else's behavior.

You see SHP, Roger is conducting himself as he is.
Don't expect him to adhere to any 'standards'.
He has his own ideas he is playing with.
Remember, his moves reflect on both you and himself.
The game will continue. Play with detachment.

Regards,
CD

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Date: Mon, Oct 11, 1999 at 06:47:47 (EDT)
From: ACM
Email: None
To: CD
Subject: Re: Yes, but it is my name.
Message:
'You see SHP, Roger is conducting himself as he is.
Don't expect him to adhere to any 'standards'. '

Surely here you are referring to M.

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Date: Sun, Oct 10, 1999 at 00:03:32 (EDT)
From: dvd
Email: None
To: CD
Subject: Detachment usually means passionless.
Message:
Greetings CD,
Would you like your blues musicians in the beer/blues
clubs you frequent to play with 'detachment'?

You would not say that to a guy about to play would you?

Detachment has this eastern religious bias that claims
'more god like'. Dont you actually prefer it when
things are passionate?

Certainly Drekula is passionate,
and creative certainly, and he made me laugh tonight.

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Date: Sun, Oct 10, 1999 at 10:39:18 (EDT)
From: Shp
Email: None
To: dvd
Subject: Re: Detachment usually means passionless...NOT!
Message:
'Detachment'....yet another word that can and is being twisted like the dial on a cheap radio.
True detachment is not passionless as anyone who has ever experienced it even for a moment knows.
End of story.
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Date: Sun, Oct 10, 1999 at 13:46:17 (EDT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: Shp
Subject: No, because it's a myth and bullshit, Shp
Message:
Nobody ever experienced so called 'true detachment' but they did used to hear about it in satsang. The people who were claiming such detachment were mostly liars or hypocrites.

Look, try this acid test: next time you think you're experiencing true detachment get someone to punch one of your children in front of you or better still, get someone to punch you in the mouth or kick you in the shins.

I'm willing to bet you all my money that your 'true detachment' will evaporate as quickly as a drop of water on a hot iron.

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Date: Sun, Oct 10, 1999 at 14:04:13 (EDT)
From: Shp
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: Re: No, because it's a myth and bullshit, Shp
Message:
You don't know me or what I face in my daily life.
Satsang was not the beginning of my life. I learned valuable things before satsang. Did you?
I have to be detached to communicate with you and likewise I'm sure.
Detachment is not discernable from the outside. It is an attitude and a state of mind and being.
So one could be embroiled in a very emotional situation and be experiencing detachment at the same time. Your worn out cliche of detachment being a sleepy-eyed disinterested spacey kind of thing never was true and isn't now either. You can add 'detachment' to the list with 'cult' as words that can be twisted like a gumby doll to whatever shape and meaning that suits you.

The 'usually' in the original statement may hold some merit.

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Date: Sun, Oct 10, 1999 at 14:25:46 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Shp
Subject: Shp, you keep falling for (and passing along) the same old, naive, stupid tricks
Message:
You don't know me or what I face in my daily life.

Irrelevant melodrama. Thanks anyways. Dave challenged you with a couple scenerios. Whether or not shit happens to you is beside the point. Are you able to deal with Dave's hypothetical situations or not? Don't be evasive.

Satsang was not the beginning of my life. I learned valuable things before satsang. Did you?

You're really setting yourself up there, Shp, given that you sound like nothing more than a walking repository of all the silly bullshit of 'satsang'. Besides, wht's the point? What are you trying to say here? The fact is you have trotted out an old satsang 'gem' and Dave's called you on it. Deal with it squarely and cut the bullshit.

I have to be detached to communicate with you and likewise I'm sure.

Okay, it's obvious that in typical new age nonsensical fashion, you're going to start playing with language until no one knows what anyone's talking about. Then you can sit back with a typical new age feeling of undeserved self-satisfaction. Dave was not detached when he wrote his post, he was frustrated with your childishness, or better put your whole, fake front of spirituality. You weren't detached in your reply as is obvious in your hurt puppy indignation ('You have no idea what I go through in my life...'). And I'm far from detached. You bug me. No question about it, I'm bugged, not detached.

Detachment is not discernable from the outside. It is an attitude and a state of mind and being.
So one could be embroiled in a very emotional situation and be experiencing detachment at the same time.

Idiocy. Yet so absolutely common in your new age world. Take a term, turn it on its head and smile like you know something. You're an idiot.

Your worn out cliche of detachment being a sleepy-eyed disinterested spacey kind of thing never was true and isn't now either. You can add 'detachment' to the list with 'cult' as words that can be twisted like a gumby doll to whatever shape and meaning that suits you.

Here's where it gets even funnier. We draw ourselves out of the new age goo of your cult and see it for what it is: A hindu-based hodge podge of superstition and hucksterism. We then see all the 'worn-out cliches' we used to collect and 'share' with one another. So what do you do? You talk with us for a while and pick up the language ('worn-out cliches') like a stupid parrot. All along it seems as if nothing ever penetrates your chronic naivite. Tell us more about the widdow widdow ones, Shp. That was good for a laugh. I miss it.

The 'usually' in the original statement may hold some merit.

You're just blowing smoke. Nothing you're saying holds merit, don't worry about the details.

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Date: Sun, Oct 10, 1999 at 17:27:36 (EDT)
From: Shp
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Jim's cleaning house on this thread like a sucker fish in an aquarium
Message:
Sucking everything that sticks to the glass, eh? In some realms algae is a pain in the ass and in other realms algae is miracle food. It's all relative, so suck away and be nourished as you keep the glass clean.

So you think I ought to take Dave seriously and go get punched and kicked or get my kids hurt to prove his point. And you call me stupid.....tell you what, you do the experiment on yourself and get back to me with your results, which I will take into consideration considering the source.

Detachment is the farmer who sows his seeds, knowing full well that pests, drought, flood, theives and other outside influences can completely destroy his crop, yet he plants it anyway, and cultivates and works it, and prays for the favor of the Creator as he works, knowing that he can't be attached to the fruits of his labor, since shit happens to everyone in this world.

Detachment is me posting here without concern what you think of me, without feeling the need to correct it every time you misinterpret my words for your own personal agenda. That beats a punch in the face or a kick in the shins, having you tell me what I'm thinking and what my motives are etc etc etc.

And I know I am not here to teach anyone anything, least of all you, who knows everything.
Beware your pride, Jim, for you being learned as you are know what follows.

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Date: Sun, Oct 10, 1999 at 17:42:46 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Shp
Subject: Avoidance, nonsense, pompous
Message:
Shp, you idiot,

I never said you should get punched or watch your kids (the widdow, widdow wuns) get hurt. That's stupid. I said you should deal with Dave's hypothetical straight-on. He suggested to you that any 'detachment' you thought you had would evaporate instantly in either case. You refuse to entertain the question. I wonder why. Maybe if you spent a little less time pontificating you might learn how to actually keep up your part in a dialogue. It's not with evasion, I'll tell you that.

Detachment is the farmer who sows his seeds, knowing full well that pests, drought, flood, theives and other outside influences can completely destroy his crop, yet he plants it anyway, and cultivates and works it, and prays for the favor of the Creator as he works, knowing that he can't be attached to the fruits of his labor, since shit happens to everyone in this world.

You're so mixed up it's amazing. The farmer isn't 'detached', you dumb fuck. He'll do every last thing he can to protect his crops including shoot you if he found you stealing them. Does he also understand that, in spite of his efforts, he might lose out? Yes. So? What's your point? That doesn't make for detachment, Shp. That makes for having reasonable expectations of success ( or failure).

As for you posting here, you're a bald-faced liar if you say you don't care what people think of you. Who are you trying to fool?

And 'misinterpret' your words? You're a snake, Shp. You try to pass off some home-made contradiction as wisdom and cry 'misinterpretation!' when you get called on it. Did I call you an 'idiot' yet in this post? Here, let me see....

Okay, I'm finished.

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Date: Mon, Oct 11, 1999 at 21:29:07 (EDT)
From: Shp
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Re: Judge not.
Message:
Business slow around here? Haven't you got anything else to do but come after me? And what is that horseshit about me posting as GM? Totally inaccurate information.
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Date: Sun, Oct 10, 1999 at 20:44:25 (EDT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Re: Avoidance, nonsense, pompous
Message:
Well Shp; in Bangladesh they are always in danger of losing their crop every year but they remain very attached to the fruits of their labour because their lives and their family's lives depend on it.

And to be honest, if I'm detached from this forum I don't post here. It's only when I feel some concern or involvment that I write something. And one thing which I dislike is the stuff that was spouted by the Indian invasion of DLM in the west back in the seventies. You see, I got taken in by it all and it took a long time for me to see that not only was I being duped but the spouters of these philosophies were mouthing empty words which they did not practise or even try to adhere to themselves.

They couldn't because the philosophy is all a myth based on fairy tales. I read about Snow White, Cinderella and Little Red Riding Hood with my children but I know they're not true stories. Now I know that the Indian fairy tales are just as unreal.

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Date: Wed, Oct 13, 1999 at 11:26:43 (EDT)
From: Shp
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: Detachment is a state of being, not an emotional response
Message:
Well Dave: Did you ever watch two folks arguing and seeing very clearly from your persepctive that it was all semantics? I just got a glimpse of our dialog and that's what it appears to be with regard to detachment.

As for reality vs Indian fairy tales, which Indian fairy tales did you buy that you do not now?

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Date: Sun, Oct 10, 1999 at 01:24:29 (EDT)
From: CD
Email: None
To: dvd
Subject: Re: Detachment usually means passionless.
Message:
>Greetings CD,

Greetings to you too.

>Would you like your blues musicians in the beer/blues
clubs you frequent to play with 'detachment'?

They need to keep a bit cool in that they have to express their passion without getting sidetracked by the immediate feedback from the audience situation. Their passion can provide the confident feeling to produce the music they feel and eventually transfer that feeling to the audience. There certainly is also a feedback from the audience that must be felt. It seams that many very good musicians are a bit odd according to average standards. I am sure my words sound pretty dry but that is not how I feel. A few simple words can get tangled up in these matters and convey meanings which are certainly not the intent of the author.

I agree with you that strong feelings are a foundation for exceptional results.

Drekula is a complex beast and certainly does provide humour as one of his many outpourings. The majority of people who post on this site appear to be passionate.
I don't think a crying room will be necessary.

I intend to put up some MP3 guitar music before the end of the year so you can throw a few beer cans.

CD

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Date: Sun, Oct 10, 1999 at 15:47:55 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: CD
Subject: You, too, CD
Message:
I am sure my words sound pretty dry but that is not how I feel. A few simple words can get tangled up in these matters and convey meanings which are certainly not the intent of the author.

And why do you think it might be that your 'words sound a little dry'? I'll tell you why. Because you're completely entangled in new age/ premie thinking. Don't forget, CD, you and Shp both think you're here to teach us shit. Here's your stage direction yesterday to your cult brother:

You see SHP, Roger is conducting himself as he is.
Don't expect him to adhere to any 'standards'.
He has his own ideas he is playing with.
Remember, his moves reflect on both you and himself.
The game will continue. Play with detachment.

A couple of regular Jedi's, aren't you?

What a joke!

Chris, your words sound dry because you're afraid to be a real person. You're a premie cut-out. The only thing even slightly sympathetic about you is that, bless your confused little heart, I can't help but think there's a real person in there somewhere. Of course, we won't know so long as you play the passive-aggressive weenie, but that's your call.

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Date: Sun, Oct 10, 1999 at 22:38:27 (EDT)
From: CD
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Re: You, too, CD
Message:
>Chris, your words sound dry because you're afraid to be a real person. You're a premie cut-out.

You are an ass. Clear enough.

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Date: Sun, Oct 10, 1999 at 09:36:16 (EDT)
From: DVD
Email: None
To: CD
Subject: Sunday morning hangover?
Message:
Good morning sunshine!
CD, What are you doing in the windows 2000 world?
What is your primary work area?
Programming? Systems work?, Do you code in consultant style
VB codeing?
You could put a snippit of your music on line with one
of those amazon style samplers right?
If so, do it!
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Date: Sat, Oct 09, 1999 at 18:29:34 (EDT)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: None
To: Shp
Subject: We're going to build a crying room
Message:
Ok, we're going to build a crying room in our church. Behind soundproof glass you will be able to listen via stereo speakers every sermon and you can make as much noise as you want.

We don't care, we don't have to. We are the Ex-Premies and you're not!

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Date: Sat, Oct 09, 1999 at 23:54:59 (EDT)
From: who
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: We
Message:
We don't care, we don't have to. We are the Ex-Premies and you're not!

idiot

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Date: Fri, Oct 08, 1999 at 20:09:24 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Boy is this funny
Message:
[I found this site in a Hotbot search for 'Maharaji'. The url is:
http://www.kheper.auz.com/topics/gurus/Maharaji.html

but check out my next post below.]

Guru Maharaji
and Divine Light Mission

I first heard about Guru Maharaji when i was at Uni some 20 years ago. I saw a 2nd hand book with a pudgy smiling Indian boy and a pink cover with the caption 'The Love Bomb has explodedd' (or soemthing like that - it was very 60s. Thought it a bit of a laugh, the cover that is. I didn't read the book though, was never into love bombs and flower power....

Many years later when I hung around with people in the occult community (O.T.O.) this thing about Divine Light Mission and 'the knowledge' kept coming up. They were all into it. Not into Maharaji or the Guru scene, with which they agreed with me, but this particular technique, which seems to involve meditation on sound and light, perhaps not unlike Radha Soami (Sant Mat) and elements of Tantra. Obviously it is an underlying element of Indian yoga and esotericism.

I've only heard Guru Maharaji speak once, some years ago. It was in a big auditorium. I was invited there by a friend, a fellow by the name of Keith who was also a devotee of Swamiji . Listening to Guru Mahaji talk, I felt he was a nice guy (or at least he had a nice manner about him) even if a little too slick. He certainly didn't strike me as enlightened. He was no more Guru than you or I. The audience were almost all devotees ready to jump up kiss his backside in an instant. When one woman, an middle aged lady, stood up and said something critical to Maharaji. He quickly put her in her place with some reply (I dont even remeber what the question was, or his reply, except it was nothing fancy). The whole auditorium laughed and cheered and clapped at that. Sad really....

I looked up some stuff on the Web for links when I was making this page. Seems like everything on Mahaji is pretty negative. That fellow has an image problem alright! ;-)

links
Cult Watch - Guru Maharaji - this is a really excellent site! - includes The Contradictions of Maharaji - which just goes to show Maharaji doesnt know anything! Here is their coverage of 'the knowledge'
The Indian Background of Divine Light Mission - Elan Vital - another excellent critique on Maharaji. To quote:

'When Maharaji first began giving Knowledge in the West, the above claims were proclaimed loudly by both
Maharaji and his followers. Now these claims are not made, except subtly, in the introductory videos that
Maharaji distributes. Instead, they are gradually made clear to aspirants as they complete the process of learning
about Knowledge.
The purpose of the pages on this site, which focuses on the traditional Indian background of Maharaji's status
and teachings, is to show that none of these claims are true. In fact:

There are several other gurus and cult leaders today who also claim to be the one and only 'Master', or Satguru. One of these is Maharaji's brother, Satpal. The disciples of these 'masters' report having the same kind of experiences that Maharaji's followers have
Maharaji's teachings have been inherited from a well known and well documented modern 'progressive' group of Punjabi 'sects'.
The Knowledge techniques are common knowledge shared by many teachers, and these teachers have other practices that are very similar to Maharaji's: darshan, satsang, and service, for example. What one can experience through the bond with 'The Master' can simply be experienced through meditation for those who enjoy it.'
For more info, visit this superb site!
(Incidentally, I had long suspected a connection between Divine Light Mission and Radha Soami, the fopormer being a ripoff of elements of the latter. Material on this site reveals the explit connections)

Maharaji related sites - useful links - mirror

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Date: Fri, Oct 08, 1999 at 20:12:32 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Okay, here's the punchline
Message:
[Here's what they guy has to say about our old friend, Kieth:]

Swami Keith

You may wonder why I am giving Keith (yes that's his name, I dont have to protect the innocent or the guilty, but I dont know his surname anyway so he can still be anonymous) his own webpage. The reason being that he represents the most minor grade of guruhood one can attain, a small fry in an ocean of sharks and whales. He was a minnow in the world of gurus. But for a while he was nevertheless a guru.

I first met Keith at La Trobe University. He wasn't a student there, but he did do astrology, and he waas and I asusme still is a very good astroploger. He did my astrology chart, and did not ask any money for the survice. I was amazed at his analysis of my character from it. He could see things about me that it was too absurd to suggest they were mere lucky guesses. That is when I first realised astrology was more than superstition. (As a rational scientific type I have always had a lot of difficulty with astrology, because it violates causality, and yet still seems to work).

After leaving University I lost touch with Keith for some six or seven years. I met up with him again seemingly by accident, one Sunday at the Hare Krishna temple in Albert Park, right on the other side of Melbourne to La Trobe Uni Bundoora. We had both gone for the free Sunday vegetarian feed. Anyway it was good to catch up with Keith again and we got talking, and he invited me to Swamiji's birthday party. Which is a whole other story (because I hadn't seen Swamiji for many years either, and I certainly didnt know that Keith new Swamiji!). And another time he invited me to a talk by Guru Maharaji. Guru Maharaji and Swamiji were (and perhaps still are, I don't know) Keith's two gurus.

It was not long after tried to set himself up as a guru with a small but adoring (well, sorta...) harem of female disciples (this guy never really lacked for sex). I had an argument with him once because he was into spontaneity and I was into a disciplined approach to meditation.
Guru Kieth (Bitch magnet!)

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Date: Sat, Oct 09, 1999 at 14:18:41 (EDT)
From: Guru Roger eDrekanand
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Money for nothing, chicks for free? Where do I get a license? (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Sat, Oct 09, 1999 at 15:31:37 (EDT)
From: Ben Lurking
Email: None
To: Guru Roger eDrekanand
Subject: Apply Here
Message:
Roger this is an activitey that must be licensed by the US GoV under Federal anti Cult Prtection And RAckets Department - should you want to find a job that may use unique and special skills please visit www.odci.gov/ic/cia.html and follow the links to the employment opportunities. I am sure that a guru - cult leader psotion can be had there - if not its fun reading - espiciallythe covert agent description.
In the meantime please sned me $1,000,000.00 US Dollars as a license fee and then send me 90% of all gross income. This will leave you 10% to tithe to your previous cult and will make you broke and penniless - just like M
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Date: Sat, Oct 09, 1999 at 15:35:09 (EDT)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: None
To: Ben Lurking
Subject: So, basically you are saying...
Message:
In the meantime please sned me $1,000,000.00 US Dollars as a license fee and then send me 90% of all gross income. This will leave you 10% to tithe to your previous cult and will make you broke and penniless - just like M

that I will still have no money, but will be endangering my life with extremely high risk.

Ok, but what about the chicks?

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Date: Sat, Oct 09, 1999 at 18:25:12 (EDT)
From: Ben Lurking
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: Re: So, basically you are saying...
Message:
Given your hi stature of the first member of my goup I grant you rights to all the chicks at zacky farms, foster farms, and any other chick raising farms, should you be seeking 2 legged chicks then I suggest you go to EJL and try and lure some Gopi's to your sorid place.
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Date: Sat, Oct 09, 1999 at 18:31:49 (EDT)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: None
To: Ben Lurking
Subject: Oh, I know plenty about chicken farms, believe me!
Message:
The Chicken Ranch Scandal
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Date: Sat, Oct 09, 1999 at 19:36:26 (EDT)
From: Ben Lurking
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: Re: Oh, I know plenty about chicken farms, believe me!
Message:
And I thought the chicken ranch was a Nevada house of ill-repute
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Date: Fri, Oct 08, 1999 at 21:21:25 (EDT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: This is GREAT!
Message:
I'm proud as punch of our own Keith , and am equally proud to have created the first home in cyberspace for Swami Keith , 'The Keith Channel .' I thought he was just pretending to be a guru , when , all this time , he really was a guru !
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