Forum IV: The Ex-Premie Forum
Archive: 8
From: Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 To: Mon, Oct 25, 1999 Page: 3 Of: 5


Grace -:- Realizing Knowledge -:- Mon, Oct 18, 1999 at 10:39:05 (EDT)
__ Jim -:- You can't overestimate how important this was -:- Mon, Oct 18, 1999 at 23:27:43 (EDT)
__ __ Nigel -:- I agree with almost every word -:- Tues, Oct 19, 1999 at 07:12:46 (EDT)
__ __ __ Jim -:- Re: I agree with almost every word -:- Tues, Oct 19, 1999 at 08:58:51 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ nigel -:- Does anyone remember 'tranquality'? -:- Tues, Oct 19, 1999 at 19:48:01 (EDT)
__ Cynthia G. -:- Re: Realizing Knowledge -:- Mon, Oct 18, 1999 at 19:57:55 (EDT)
__ __ Shri Hans Productions -:- Remove the Zits -:- Mon, Oct 18, 1999 at 23:00:23 (EDT)
__ AJW -:- It's like the tooth fairy. -:- Mon, Oct 18, 1999 at 12:24:42 (EDT)
__ __ Grace -:- So are you saying -:- Mon, Oct 18, 1999 at 12:46:28 (EDT)
__ __ __ Katie -:- Re: So are you saying -:- Mon, Oct 18, 1999 at 12:52:20 (EDT)
__ __ __ AJW -:- I agree -:- Mon, Oct 18, 1999 at 12:50:36 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ JW -:- Realize Knowledge -:- Mon, Oct 18, 1999 at 13:21:13 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ kmdarling -:- Re: A War with Your Own Self - Oh yes! -:- Wed, Oct 20, 1999 at 00:07:36 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ kmdarling -:- Re: Realize Knowledge -:- Tues, Oct 19, 1999 at 23:42:11 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Mili -:- Re: Realize Knowledge -:- Mon, Oct 18, 1999 at 13:33:18 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- That's pretty lame, Mili -:- Mon, Oct 18, 1999 at 22:08:24 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Mili -:- Re: That's pretty lame, Mili -:- Tues, Oct 19, 1999 at 00:54:55 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Nigel -:- Mili blows raspberries when stumped for a reply. -:- Tues, Oct 19, 1999 at 07:23:38 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Grace -:- Death and Knowledge -:- Mon, Oct 18, 1999 at 13:01:10 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Katie -:- Re: Death and Knowledge -:- Mon, Oct 18, 1999 at 18:30:52 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Sir Dave -:- Re: Death and Knowledge -:- Mon, Oct 18, 1999 at 13:47:31 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ AJW -:- Pop! -:- Mon, Oct 18, 1999 at 13:18:16 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Grace -:- Re: Pop! -:- Mon, Oct 18, 1999 at 14:43:42 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ AJW -:- Knitting for the over 50s -:- Thurs, Oct 21, 1999 at 18:19:54 (EDT)

Goseeme -:- Victemized No More -:- Mon, Oct 18, 1999 at 09:35:04 (EDT)
__ kmdarling -:- Re: Victemized No More -:- Wed, Oct 20, 1999 at 00:16:21 (EDT)

Runamok -:- Delusions -:- Mon, Oct 18, 1999 at 01:19:07 (EDT)
__ Helen -:- Re: Delusions -:- Mon, Oct 18, 1999 at 14:52:09 (EDT)
__ JW -:- Re: Delusions -:- Mon, Oct 18, 1999 at 12:26:39 (EDT)
__ __ Runamok -:- Re: Delusions -:- Mon, Oct 18, 1999 at 16:59:39 (EDT)
__ Caritas -:- Re: Delusions -:- Mon, Oct 18, 1999 at 02:31:34 (EDT)

Gary -:- Need Support -:- Sun, Oct 17, 1999 at 14:13:28 (EDT)
__ bb -:- Re: Need Support -:- Wed, Oct 20, 1999 at 08:53:36 (EDT)
__ AJW -:- Re: Need Support -:- Mon, Oct 18, 1999 at 13:10:19 (EDT)
__ gregg -:- Re: Need Support -:- Sun, Oct 17, 1999 at 20:26:32 (EDT)
__ Enough -:- Re: Need Support -:- Sun, Oct 17, 1999 at 19:02:21 (EDT)
__ __ Gary -:- Re: Need Support -:- Sun, Oct 17, 1999 at 21:11:35 (EDT)
__ Cynthia G. -:- Re: Need Support -:- Sun, Oct 17, 1999 at 18:07:23 (EDT)
__ __ bill burke -:- Support -:- Tues, Oct 19, 1999 at 00:44:11 (EDT)
__ Robyn -:- Re: Need Support -:- Sun, Oct 17, 1999 at 15:55:39 (EDT)
__ Helen -:- Re: Need Support -:- Sun, Oct 17, 1999 at 15:14:05 (EDT)
__ Katie -:- Re: Need Support -:- Sun, Oct 17, 1999 at 15:05:00 (EDT)
__ __ kmdarling -:- Re: Need Support -:- Wed, Oct 20, 1999 at 00:36:30 (EDT)
__ Enough -:- Re: Need Support -:- Sun, Oct 17, 1999 at 14:29:42 (EDT)

Enough -:- Support -:- Sun, Oct 17, 1999 at 09:45:35 (EDT)
__ Robyn -:- Re: Support -:- Sun, Oct 17, 1999 at 10:08:38 (EDT)
__ __ Enough -:- I'm jealous..... -:- Sun, Oct 17, 1999 at 14:52:26 (EDT)
__ __ __ Robyn -:- Re: I'm jealous..... -:- Sun, Oct 17, 1999 at 16:05:50 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Enough -:- Re: I'm jealous..... -:- Sun, Oct 17, 1999 at 16:21:04 (EDT)
__ __ __ Katie -:- The truth about Robyn! -:- Sun, Oct 17, 1999 at 15:11:49 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Robyn -:- Re: The truth about Robyn! -:- Sun, Oct 17, 1999 at 16:02:20 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Sister Mary Elephant -:- That's "intelligence" not "intellegence,' dear. (nt) -:- Sun, Oct 17, 1999 at 19:09:56 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Katie -:- Re: The truth about Robyn! -:- Sun, Oct 17, 1999 at 16:36:59 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Minnesota Housewife -:- Advice for Robyn -:- Mon, Oct 18, 1999 at 16:27:03 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Robyn -:- Re: Advice for Robyn -:- Mon, Oct 18, 1999 at 21:39:56 (EDT)

Sir Dave -:- An answer to a question -:- Sun, Oct 17, 1999 at 05:41:07 (EDT)

Selene -:- innocent question -:- Sat, Oct 16, 1999 at 23:49:53 (EDT)
__ Caritas -:- Re: innocent question -:- Tues, Oct 19, 1999 at 16:47:59 (EDT)
__ __ Dr Octopus -:- Re: innocent question -:- Thurs, Oct 21, 1999 at 10:53:28 (EDT)
__ Katie -:- Hi Selene (ot) -:- Sun, Oct 17, 1999 at 12:47:01 (EDT)
__ __ selene -:- Re: Hi Selene (ot) -:- Mon, Oct 18, 1999 at 17:44:19 (EDT)

Jim -:- Blue Aquarius reunion gig -:- Sat, Oct 16, 1999 at 22:42:11 (EDT)
__ Susan -:- Re: Blue Aquarius reunion gig -:- Sat, Oct 16, 1999 at 22:55:44 (EDT)
__ __ Nigel -:- And the chap Charlie knows, -:- Mon, Oct 18, 1999 at 10:07:37 (EDT)
__ __ __ Susan -:- LOL LOL (nt) -:- Mon, Oct 18, 1999 at 12:11:12 (EDT)

Susan -:- Picket line signs needed -:- Sat, Oct 16, 1999 at 22:26:22 (EDT)
__ Enough -:- We Luv Our Hypnopotamus(nt) -:- Sun, Oct 17, 1999 at 10:41:04 (EDT)
__ __ Enough -:- Should I stop? -:- Sun, Oct 17, 1999 at 10:53:13 (EDT)
__ Enough -:- Re: Picket line signs needed -:- Sun, Oct 17, 1999 at 04:09:29 (EDT)
__ who made this one up? -:- Realize Knowledge: Become an Ex Premie -:- Sat, Oct 16, 1999 at 22:27:43 (EDT)
__ __ Ms. K -:- Calling RT -:- Sun, Oct 17, 1999 at 16:38:55 (EDT)
__ __ Jim -:- Raja Ji Rules! -:- Sat, Oct 16, 1999 at 22:39:11 (EDT)
__ __ __ JW -:- Nonsense -- Satpal -:- Sun, Oct 17, 1999 at 15:13:24 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Enough -:- Re: Nonsense -- Satpal -:- Sun, Oct 17, 1999 at 16:25:18 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Re: Nonsense -- Satpal -:- Sun, Oct 17, 1999 at 17:55:25 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Enough -:- Re: Nonsense -- Satpal -:- Sun, Oct 17, 1999 at 18:19:43 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Nigel -:- Hey, let's propagate!!! -:- Mon, Oct 18, 1999 at 10:26:45 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Robyn -:- Re: Hey, let's propagate!!! -:- Mon, Oct 18, 1999 at 21:44:12 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Enough -:- Re: Hey, let's propagate!!! -:- Mon, Oct 18, 1999 at 16:01:06 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Susan -:- Re: Hey, let's propagate!!! -:- Mon, Oct 18, 1999 at 10:41:39 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Joey -:- Re: Hey, let's poopagate!!!:::)) -:- Mon, Oct 18, 1999 at 16:14:53 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Marianne -:- Re: Hey, let's propagate!!! -:- Mon, Oct 18, 1999 at 10:55:35 (EDT)
__ __ __ Susan -:- Re: Raja Ji Rules! -:- Sat, Oct 16, 1999 at 22:46:21 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ b -:- test -:- Sun, Oct 17, 1999 at 21:04:32 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Steve McGarrett -:- Book 'em Dano! -:- Mon, Oct 18, 1999 at 05:24:56 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Jim -:- I want to BE Raja Ji -:- Sat, Oct 16, 1999 at 22:51:44 (EDT)

Forum Administrator -:- BLOCKINGS -:- Sat, Oct 16, 1999 at 20:07:11 (EDT)
__ Johnny Morris -:- Re: BLOCKINGS -:- Mon, Oct 18, 1999 at 20:41:55 (EDT)
__ Blind Freddy -:- Re: BLOCKINGS -:- Sun, Oct 17, 1999 at 05:44:20 (EDT)
__ Jim -:- Thanks -:- Sat, Oct 16, 1999 at 20:09:38 (EDT)
__ __ Jim -:- On second thought -:- Sat, Oct 16, 1999 at 20:19:35 (EDT)
__ __ __ Forum Administrator -:- Re: On second thought -:- Sat, Oct 16, 1999 at 20:32:08 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Sir Dave -:- A tip for Jim and where obscenities are welcome -:- Sat, Oct 16, 1999 at 21:12:44 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Thick as a .... what was that? Come on, help me out.... stick? -:- Sat, Oct 16, 1999 at 21:22:01 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Thick as a plank -:- Re: Thick as a .... what was that? Come on, help me out.... stick? -:- Sat, Oct 16, 1999 at 21:37:48 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Oh THAT... everyone knows THAT -:- Sat, Oct 16, 1999 at 21:46:09 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Thick as a plank -:- Re: Oh THAT... everyone knows THAT -:- Sat, Oct 16, 1999 at 21:49:35 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Re: Oh THAT... everyone knows THAT -:- Sat, Oct 16, 1999 at 21:54:29 (EDT)

Sir Dave -:- With the master in Prem Nagar -:- Sat, Oct 16, 1999 at 19:28:52 (EDT)
__ Susan -:- Just the family business -:- Sat, Oct 16, 1999 at 19:54:31 (EDT)
__ Cynthia G. -:- Re: With the master in Prem Nagar -:- Sat, Oct 16, 1999 at 19:44:12 (EDT)
__ __ Sir Dave -:- In case anyone doesn't know -:- Sat, Oct 16, 1999 at 20:04:17 (EDT)

Jim -:- Hey, Charlie (re Blue Aquarius) -:- Sat, Oct 16, 1999 at 17:47:33 (EDT)

questions -:- server hangup -:- Sat, Oct 16, 1999 at 15:08:31 (EDT)
__ Sir Dave -:- Re: server hangup -:- Sun, Oct 17, 1999 at 07:42:37 (EDT)
__ Maharaj Ji Buster -:- Re: server hangup -:- Sat, Oct 16, 1999 at 15:16:38 (EDT)

Maharaj Ji Buster -:- A Tribute to the Lord of the World -:- Sat, Oct 16, 1999 at 14:59:28 (EDT)
__ Roger eDrek -:- For the record - not me -:- Sat, Oct 16, 1999 at 15:30:59 (EDT)
__ Anonymous -:- Re: A Tribute to the Lord of the World -:- Sat, Oct 16, 1999 at 15:21:20 (EDT)
__ Enough -:- Truly a Shithead(nt) -:- Sat, Oct 16, 1999 at 15:12:10 (EDT)

questions -:- answers -:- Sat, Oct 16, 1999 at 13:53:23 (EDT)
__ Ben Lurking -:- Re: answers -:- Sat, Oct 16, 1999 at 14:29:02 (EDT)

questions -:- answers -:- Sat, Oct 16, 1999 at 13:35:55 (EDT)
__ Jim -:- Who are you? -:- Sat, Oct 16, 1999 at 18:12:59 (EDT)


Date: Mon, Oct 18, 1999 at 10:39:05 (EDT)
From: Grace
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Realizing Knowledge
Message:
I've seen this term 'realizing' Knowledge thrown around here and don't know exactly what you mean.
How does one 'realize' Knowledge?
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Oct 18, 1999 at 23:27:43 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Grace
Subject: You can't overestimate how important this was
Message:
Realizing Knowledge was the whole banana in those first couple of years. Everything we did was to get us there. We never stopped thinking about it. The more we experienced in meditation, the more Maharaji and the mahatmas assured us we'd barely scratched the surface. Maharaji, we knew, was all the way in. No ego, no illusion, just pure, infinite happiness. Likewise his family. Even the mahatmas, by his grace, were on the other side of the realizing Knowledge barrier. And us? We were all mere babies (or, as Shp might say, ... okay, enough Shp jokes -- for now, anyway). The point was that our experiences were nothing compared to what we'd enjoy once we'd realized Knowledge. This was the carrot that got many of us into the ashrams or just more deeply involved than we might have been otherwise. Why move into the ashram or give up sex when you didn't really have to? To dive deeper, of course. To offer yourself absolutely to the Lord who, then, if you were really sincere, could take you past that final threshold.

It's funny how quickly this concept faded away, given how powerful it was. By 1975 hardly anyone spoke in those terms anymore and by 77 it was considered passe to bring it up at all. It was as if we all gave up, especially the cult leader who'd fueled our appetites so mightily in this regard. Now, you even mention the concept of realizing knowledge to premies and they act is if they'd never heard of it. But, well, as I told youngold up there, that's not good enough. I was there.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Oct 19, 1999 at 07:12:46 (EDT)
From: Nigel
Email: nigel@redcrow.demon.co.uk
To: Jim
Subject: I agree with almost every word
Message:
The word I disagree with is actually a date, ie. 1975. Maharaji was still stressing the importance of 'realising' nollidge as late as 1981. It was this idea of realising K, or merging with the Hamster himself that provided the ultimate goal and gave us a sense of direction, besides making the bad times more tolerable.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Oct 19, 1999 at 08:58:51 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: Re: I agree with almost every word
Message:
Nigel,

I guess I'm confused about this a bit. Actually, wasn't the truth something along these lines? Maharaji did, in fact, keep talking about 'realizing nollige' but, if you really think about it, he started gutting the meaning of the term. At first it meant what I talked about above -- splattering into the Hamster (figuratively, of course) -- but over time it meant .... it meant ....

come to think of it, I distinctly remember that the phrase came to mean nothing. Or, I guess it came to mean something along the lines of simply 'experiencing knowledge' You know, like in ' ... and premies, you really, really feel that love, if you are realizing this knowledge... He gave up talking about it as a process of crossing a barrier or threshold and eventually (later, you're right, than when I'd earlier said) dropped the term itself. It didn't mean anything particular anymore so it wasn't necessary.

Similarly, there were several similies about realizing knowledge' he used to beat to death that no longer applied. My favorite was 'breaking the sound barrier'. That we were like jets slowly pressing up against the speed of sound. Our fuselages shook, the noise was terrible, but all we had to do was just hang in, persevere, and, with a little grace and blah, blah, blah, presto! You crossed over into the land of complete tranquillity. When was the last time you heard that kind of play-by-play commentary?

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Oct 19, 1999 at 19:48:01 (EDT)
From: nigel
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Does anyone remember 'tranquality'?
Message:
You crossed over into the land of complete tranquillity.

You've triggered my degenerating memory, again, Jim. Suddenly, I remember M never talking about 'tranquility', but about 'tranquality'. Ok, so he's not a local... Takes time to get a basic grasp of the lingo - sure. But M used that fucking word 'tranquality' for years, I swear. Not as some clever wordplay. Rather, there was no-one around him willing to correct him. Tranquility, tranquality, what the fuck - it's all an experience, right?

Either way, the guy's unquilified...

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Oct 18, 1999 at 19:57:55 (EDT)
From: Cynthia G.
Email: cynthia@madriver.com
To: Grace
Subject: Re: Realizing Knowledge
Message:
Dear Grace,

When I received k in 1976 everyone was lead to believe that Charanand was one great Mahatma who had realized K. It was common knowlege that he was the teacher's pet. As far as m is concerned he supposedly realized k in a very short time after shri m gave him k. My understanding of it (as how it was explained to me) was that to realize k one was ALWAYS, CONSTANTLY IN A STATE OF MEDITATION OR IN THE EXPERIENCE OF K.

The scam then, which relates to how m is, was??? the lord of the universe is that he was always in a state of grace and emersed in the ultimate experience, that's why he had the ability to 'know when every leaf fluttered' or 'knew everything we did' or 'everything that happened to us was a result of his all-knowing, all-powerful self.' I actually believed he could read my thoughts.

When I was around m he looked pretty human to me. I was actually surprised when I would be standing next to him and see zits on his face or scars on his hands. I thought he was supposed to be perfect in every way.

Oh well, another thought buster.

Be well, Cynthia

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Oct 18, 1999 at 23:00:23 (EDT)
From: Shri Hans Productions
Email: None
To: Cynthia G.
Subject: Remove the Zits
Message:
A premie at SHIP had the job of air-brushing the zits off M's fat face before they were put in full-color into the Elan Vital Magazine. I always wondered why they didn't remove a chin or two while they were at it.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Oct 18, 1999 at 12:24:42 (EDT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Grace
Subject: It's like the tooth fairy.
Message:
Hi Grace,

'Realising Knowledge' is like the 'Tooth Fairy'.

To understand what it means, you have to believe all sorts of garbage like:

'Knowledge is only revealed by Maharaji.'

'Knowledge is truth.'

'By following the orders of the guru for the rest of your life, you will eventually become one with that truth within.'

In the early 70s, we were told that 'Mahatmas' were people who had realised knowledge. They were one with god within. Unfortunately, some of the Mahatmas turned out to be very far from realised- into seducing young female premies, theft, and in the case of Jagdeo- serious child abuse.

When it became obvious where these poor souls were really at, we quietly stopped calling them 'realised souls' (a bit in the same way we quietly stopped calling Maharaji 'Lord of the Universe).

It all gets a bit embarrising when you realise it's all bullshit doesn't Grace?

Take it easy,

Anth the Back to Earth At Last.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Oct 18, 1999 at 12:46:28 (EDT)
From: Grace
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: So are you saying
Message:
that it is like being in a state of permanent 'enlightenment' or higher consciousness? I used to believe this was possible, but now don't think a live person can be there. I am still hoping to go into that state when I die though...who knows?
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Oct 18, 1999 at 12:52:20 (EDT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Grace
Subject: Re: So are you saying
Message:
Hi Grace -
'Realizing Knowledge' was held up to us as a goal - one that would happen if we practiced long and hard enough, did enough meditation, service, and satsang, and of course were devoted enough. It was never clearly defined, but I always pictured it as becoming one with Knowledge - in a state of permanent meditation, I guess (M had 'realized K' and that's why he didn't have to practice). Your definition is probably about right.

Take care,
Katie

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Oct 18, 1999 at 12:50:36 (EDT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Grace
Subject: I agree
Message:
I also don't think there's such a thing. We are born to be ourselves, with all our imperfections.

I also agree with your sentiment, that we'll have plenty of time to find out about it when we die. What's the big rush?

Let's enjoy life on Earth while we' ve got it. Living in a cult is not recommended as a way of doing this.

I think we're finally growing up Grace.

Anth the old fart.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Oct 18, 1999 at 13:21:13 (EDT)
From: JW
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Realize Knowledge
Message:
As premies, we never saw anyone who ever had realized knowledge. As Anth said, the mahatmas were quite fallable creatures, and, if you spent any time around him, you knew Maharaji was as well, with his material greed, alcoholism, sadistic behavior and the rest. And of course, the other premies were just as screwed up and unhappy as I was, so I knew it didn't work for them, either. At least we were all in the same boat, right?

So, knowledge was supposedly this 'gift' that you got from Maharaji and it supposedly made you happy. When it demonstrably didn't do that, there grew up this whole cult belief system to deal with that contradiction. Essentially this system is a rip-off of Hindu religious beliefs, that we are these dual-personality human beings. There was your 'mind' that prevented you from being happy, and 'knowledge' which was your true self, the experience of which made you happy, or supposedly it did. Therein lies the inherent problem for premies. Yes, knowledge will make you happy, BUT, BUT, BUT, BUT, BUT, because of your MIND, the world, your desires, your self-preservation instincts, your attraction for other human beings, intellectual thought, and virtually everything else that makes one human, KNOWLEDGE doesn't always deliver what was promised. The desperation that comes is supposed to make you cling even harder to this 'master' to save you from yourself, essentially out of fear of your own self. It's very sick.

So, essentially, 'knowledge,' if you take it seriously, is a recipe for a war with your own self and your own nature. It's a very fucked up system, that requires mass self-deception and rationalizations to keep one from throwing it and Maharaji into the garbage can where they belong. In the end, fortunately, the vast majority of people end up doing that anyway, but it can be a difficult process because of all the programmed fear.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Oct 20, 1999 at 00:07:36 (EDT)
From: kmdarling
Email: unlimited@aol.com
To: JW
Subject: Re: A War with Your Own Self - Oh yes!
Message:
JW

I really loved your post! It got me to thinking about how hard I tried to realize Knowledge, and the incredible extent to which it was indeed a war with my own self.

I used to stay up all night meditating with cups of chai or whatever. And when things changed so that realizing knowledge meant being the best devotee so you could merge with MJ, I stayed up all night cleaning residences where HE was soon to arrive, again using cups of chai. I waged such a war on my own body and emotions in the name of ye realization of ye knowledge that when I emerged from DLM in 1982-3, I had Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, which I still go through waves of.

Thanks for putting it very accurately.

Katie Darling

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Oct 19, 1999 at 23:42:11 (EDT)
From: kmdarling
Email: unlimited@aol.com
To: JW
Subject: Re: Realize Knowledge
Message:
nt
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Oct 18, 1999 at 13:33:18 (EDT)
From: Mili
Email: mili@cheerful.com
To: JW
Subject: Re: Realize Knowledge
Message:
Whew. Some rationalization!
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Oct 18, 1999 at 22:08:24 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Mili
Subject: That's pretty lame, Mili
Message:
Mili,

I've read JW's post and wonder what it is you're trying to say. Is there a single thing you take issue with or are you just being contrary for the hell of it? The fact is, JW's telling it like it is and you don't like / can't handle it. Your problem, not ours. If there's even a bit of JW's post you say is wrong, spell it out. I dare you.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Oct 19, 1999 at 00:54:55 (EDT)
From: Mili
Email: mili@cheerful.com
To: Jim
Subject: Re: That's pretty lame, Mili
Message:
I don't care if you think it's 'lame', Jim. It's just my little comment, that's all - I wasn't trying to get you off.

Why should I try to convince JW that he is 'wrong' about something, or anyone for that matter? He is simply stating his own experiences, and the way he rationalizes them.

Other people have different experiences. Check out the ELK site. :o)

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Oct 19, 1999 at 07:23:38 (EDT)
From: Nigel
Email: nigel@redcrow.demon.co.uk
To: Mili
Subject: Mili blows raspberries when stumped for a reply.
Message:
Why should I try to convince JW that he is 'wrong' about something, or anyone for that matter?

It might help others understand why you accuse JW of 'rationalizing', for one thing. As things stand, your 'little comment' appears baseless and stupid.

Other people have different experiences. Check out the ELK site.

The ELK site has zero credibilty as it operates a heavy censorship policy regarding who is allowed to post there. Contributions which do pass the censor are edited to keep them 'on-message'.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Oct 18, 1999 at 13:01:10 (EDT)
From: Grace
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Death and Knowledge
Message:
You know, I used to be kind of anxious about dying in a way (even though I thought I was 'enjoying life') so I could reach my goal permanently. Now that I'm getting older I don't feel like that at all. It still doesn't bother me, but there is so much I'd still like to do and achieve if possible. Even though I have always been involved 'in the world', I find an ambition to be even more so now that I've left M. I always viewed worldly ambition as a negative thing, it wasn't for my 'heart'.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Oct 18, 1999 at 18:30:52 (EDT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Grace
Subject: Re: Death and Knowledge
Message:
Hi Grace -
This is not exactly 'on-topic', but my only so-called 'spiritual' experiences have been around people who were dead and dying. As a result, I believe that people are very happy after death - that what was once beyond a veil is now seen face to face. And I also had an experience where a premie friend of mine died, and DEFINITELY found something beyond Maharaji. His exact words were 'I used to be so screwed up, but now I'm all right'. (Take this however you want, but I know the guy is really all right now.)

As far as worldly ambition - I see nothing wrong with it if your heart is in the right place. I have always had a strong call to serve other beings in any way that I can. However, I have known people, and especially one person, who's now dead, who have done this - and who have greatly helped others - just by being themselves in any situation they encountered. The woman I knew was basically a blue-collar family housewife - not a saint, and not perfect - but she brought love and acceptance into almost every interaction with other people. I feel grateful to have known her and I feel like I'm a better person because of her.

Take care, Grace -
Love,
Katie

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Oct 18, 1999 at 13:47:31 (EDT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: Grace
Subject: Re: Death and Knowledge
Message:
I think it's a crazy myth that worldly ambition is not something of the heart and is somehow negative. The way you live today, with all the modern technology, was achieved through people having normal 'worldly' ambition.

While you are here, I think you should concentrate on what's here. Money, power etc can be forces of good just as well as forces of evil. Most of the time they are used in a good way by people.

Look at people who are successful. They have just as much 'heart' as the people who aren't successful. To deny oneself the success that this world has to offer is to learn nothing at all. If you're successful then you'll still keep your heart. If a person has supposedly no heart then they will be heartless whether they be rich or poor.

Worldly ambition and success is a good thing and to be reached for if one is able to while one is here. It can also benefit many other people too.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Oct 18, 1999 at 13:18:16 (EDT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Grace
Subject: Pop!
Message:
Hi again Grace,

Death sends shivers up me timbers.

So you're getting older too are you?
I was 50 a couple of weeks ago, and feel, like you, that I've got a renewed interest in reality and what's happening in the world.

I just hope I don't blow a gaskett with my new enthusiasm for illusion, delusion and confusion.

Anth the Pop, there goes another one.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Oct 18, 1999 at 14:43:42 (EDT)
From: Grace
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Re: Pop!
Message:
Hope I don't pop any, there's so much I'm getting ready to take on.
This is all coming together for me the more I read. I've needed to thoroughly think this whole thing through for a long time, but was too much in the middle of it to do so.
I keep coming to all these realizations that I should have quite a while ago. Better late than never!

Grace the still under 40 but getting older chick

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Oct 21, 1999 at 18:19:54 (EDT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Grace
Subject: Knitting for the over 50s
Message:
Hi Grace,

I've used this ananalogy somewhere before, but it feels like I've got a woollen sweater on, with a picture in the pattern, one little thread came out, which I held onto, and the whole thing rapidly started to unravel.

The pile of wool is up to my knees and still unraveling.

40 is young. 50 is fun.
Anth the Natural Fibre.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Oct 18, 1999 at 09:35:04 (EDT)
From: Goseeme
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Victemized No More
Message:
I, 'escaped' from a group designed exactly like DLM in 1992. Group was practising Satsang,seeking,'Knowledge' giving all to,'M'(Michelle) and practising all types of mind control techneques not the least of which was public humiliation.Specially with the women...Sexual abuse etc. I reported them and then about got ran over by the group! Harrased like crazy until I left the state. I would still like to see this,'Guru' exposed for the evil creep he is!Had to leave someone I cared for there.Best description of what I experienced as follows: 'Satan will come to confuse and decieve even the elect'. Works for me! If anyone has heard of,'Holy Company' and what evilness they may be up to now I would be most appreciate the info..Thank you!
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Oct 20, 1999 at 00:16:21 (EDT)
From: kmdarling
Email: unlimited@aol.com
To: Goseeme
Subject: Re: Victemized No More
Message:
Dear Goseeme,

I think I know who your Guru was! Is he a blonde, gay Frenchman called Michel who was giving the techniques of what he called the “Knowing” in L.A.?

Believe it or not, he was the first therapist I went to in Miami, when I was having a hard time emotionally while still in DLM. He was very anti-Maharaji, but I discovered that he had actually received the techniques from Maharaji and that he was giving them himself. I noticed even in Miami that he tended to have some vacant-eyed people tending his garden, like they were doing ”service.” Of course, that seemed more normal to me back then. He was quite concerned with deprogramming me from having a guru, though, and actually did me a bit of good.

Then, years later, my ex-stepson called us to say that he was with a guru in L.A. who was promising to give him “the Knowing” if he was a good boy. He was very excited. I eventually realized that this was the same Michel, who had now become a guru in the same style as Maharaji, with most of the same trappings. I deprogrammed him before he got really involved.

Was this the same group you were involved with?

I’d be happy to correspond with you on the Forum or off it, if you want support and to chat about our experiences.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Oct 18, 1999 at 01:19:07 (EDT)
From: Runamok
Email: djrayovac@aol.com
To: All
Subject: Delusions
Message:
I guess the worst delusion I ever suffered from was that Rawatt was God, but not the only one. I was captivated by other similar, but lesser rumors about others and their spiritual powers at different points in my life.

But it's not always the most blatantly unbelievable delusions which trip us up the most. It's funny how we cyber-congregate as part of the process of living a Miragey-free existence (and I prefer Miragey as a term ex-endearment because it implies the delusion that believing in him is) and actually deal with him more, and in some cases OBSESS OVER IT as part of this process.

In this process there can be a great deal of confusion. Some of it with people who are fresh out of the cult (a year or two), but it's true for all of us. It takes a lot of tinker toys piled high to support a structure that turns some new age fluff into saving grace. If we were computers we would probably be blowing a lot of RAM on it. Dismantling that structure is going to leave a mess that may not disappear for years. Realistically, it might still trip you up after you've been out as long as you were in.

It takes a lot of work to construct and maintain an empty belief system, and all the more so when it is constructed around a vulturous vampire of a guru who is preying on your innocence in order to feed his desire for opulence and worship (read: slaves). The habits of rationalizing the institutionalized abuse of a cult aren't going to be positive contributing factors in our ability to develop good relationships whether personal or professional.

We are confronted by the less earth shattering but important personal situations of 'can I trust someone' who may turn out to be untrustworthy, or 'will I get paid' for something by someone who has no intention of paying me. Had we worked harder on these situations when we were busy believing that Rawatt was with us and Rawatt would reward us and all that BS that we bought, we might have gotten a bit more out of our lives in those areas.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Oct 18, 1999 at 14:52:09 (EDT)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Runamok
Subject: Re: Delusions
Message:
Yes. It takes a long time to learn that one cannot trust everyone, and that one is not required to trust everyone & everyone, an important lesson that every adult has to learn. These lessons of living that a normal part of anyone's development were waylaid while in the cult. The other lesson is when you get the message 'I am abusing you for your own good' run for the hills! I am reading a good book by ALice Miller called 'For Your Own Good' about violence in child -rearing. There are some pretty creepy parallels to Victorian styles of child-rearing and M's path. The abuse on M's path developmentally numbed me from protecting myself/coping with bumps in the road that are part of LIFE. Let's face it, if I had high self-esteem to begin with, I wouldn't have gotten involved. But I agree with JW that the alternative of thinking for oneself is far preferable to the familar yet vacuous 'bliss' of any cult.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Oct 18, 1999 at 12:26:39 (EDT)
From: JW
Email: None
To: Runamok
Subject: Re: Delusions
Message:
Dismantling that structure is going to leave a mess that may not disappear for years. Realistically, it might still trip you up after you've been out as long as you were in.

Maybe, maybe not. For me at least, leaving the cult did not create a 'mess.' It actually was the beginning of the process of cleaning up the 'mess' that the cult and Maharaji's programming, caused me. Sure, there might be some disorientation and discomfort, but the alternative -- staying and believing the delusion -- is much, much worse and much more energy-consuming.

And I don't consider what happens here, for the most part,
really 'dealing with Maharaji.' I consider it more dealing with myself, and communicating with others who have had a similar experience to mine. That is very helpful because, believe it or not, there are comparatively few people who have been in and out of a destructive cult and can understand that it wasn't just some phase I was going through, or some kind of a benign religion I practiced for awhile and then discarded at some point. So, I think, rather than 'blowing RAM' what happens here is very constructive. As you said, the energy expended is much less than a premie has to expend to keep together the cult belief system, with all its contradictions and holes it has, and with a cult leader who is in may ways an embarrassment.

And I agree, we wasted a lot of our lives, time and talents on those efforts while we were premies, or at least I did.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Oct 18, 1999 at 16:59:39 (EDT)
From: Runamok
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: Re: Delusions
Message:
I'm also referring to blunders that have taken place on line where people have, for example, been convinced that complex impersonations (like miragey posting or the thing with grrlzone) were in effect that were not. Sure, it can happen, but it's still more likely an imaginary event.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Oct 18, 1999 at 02:31:34 (EDT)
From: Caritas
Email: None
To: Runamok
Subject: Re: Delusions
Message:
Run,

So true. For some reason, whenever I think back on the M years a song by Sting comes to mind, Fortress:

'If I built this fortress around your heart
encircled you with chains and barbed wire...'

Can't remember the rest (at this time;-) At any rate, I've found that it takes a bit of effort to throw off these chains and barbed wire. Then, whoa, I get to the fortress and there's even more work.

And now, the very real less earth shattering circumstances of life.

'What a long strange trip it's been!'

Caritas

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Oct 17, 1999 at 14:13:28 (EDT)
From: Gary
Email: gme109@earthlink.net
To: All
Subject: Need Support
Message:
I received k in 74 and practiced intensely until about 80 at which time I had a major freak out. From that time on I was never involved in the premie community much and only practiced k sporadically. I have continued though out the years and up intil about 98 to reestablish a connection to k and m. I have seen m at programs and still held the belief that he was the supreme lord of the universe and I was just a spaced out premie doomed to never to realize k. Having held this belief and feeling like everything in this world is just an illusion, I tended to push people and situations that I should have dealt with or embraced away from me. I feel like I can no longer do this nor do I whish to. I can't really blame m for this but I do need to close this chapter of my life, but some how I can not let go completely. I really would like to communicate with some expremies. Please respond if you feel like you can relate or help. Thank you
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Oct 20, 1999 at 08:53:36 (EDT)
From: bb
Email: None
To: Gary
Subject: Re: Need Support
Message:
Now is a good time to start over like the guy in Scrooge.
He came alive to the joy and love possible in our
interactions with those we like or love. Our reaching
out and our giving will help recover the closeness
and the right feeling that we loved as a child and had
to some extent.
the confused guru led us into coldness and avoidance
of others and abandoning our interests and crushing
our natural enthusiasm for following our own drum.

It was only him him him. He is a madman. Was a madman,
and we have him to blame for a lot of stupid direction
delivered with the stamp of almighty god.
You cant ask for a more insane abuse than playing god with
a vengence and lording it over people the way he did and
even to today does.
You will have to get pissed a little and grab at life and
sieze the day!
We have time and a new chance to start over with everyone
even those that died. Make your amends with them in
your own way and with everyone else. Dont despair
or dont do that for long.
You have us here for going over the issues and we have
a lot to say and you do too.

If you continue to post here you will bump into more
folks that stop in on a weekly basis or whatever, and
between us all there is some real help available.
Type your thoughts when you read another thread here.
Just go ahead and plunge in. The people here are very
good. There are a couple insane zealots here as well so
dont get all bothered by the premies that are having
a tough time making the break away from the programming
of thier youth. It is such a crushing blow that
happened to us that freakouts still today are not
uncommon. Just type and we are here.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Oct 18, 1999 at 13:10:19 (EDT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Gary
Subject: Re: Need Support
Message:
Hi Gary,

I got knowledge in 73, left about 16 months ago. The wierdest time for me was right at the start. It really helped to read the forum and the 'Journeys' at Ex-premie.org.

I devoured everything to begin with, printed stuff out, spent hours of worktime reading it, until I got connected at home.

Although it's 16 months since I consciously made the decision to quit, I still don't feel that the process has even slowed down. I'm still watching my opinions reform. I'm looking at knowledge and the guru objectively, looking at my own experience objectively (why did I pass out in the darshan line?). A major psychological reorganisation seems to be going on.

It's like brushing off 25 years of cobwebs, you keep finding more. Then you discover all your 'clothes' are made out of them too.

I'm enjoying it all. I've slammed the door shut on remorse and regret, (Maybe I'll have to open it later), and am happy having my mind back in its 'natural' state.

It's like the feeling when I remember giving up cigarettes. It's good to be free.

I'm sure some of the old exes round here have some sort of '10 stages of leaving a cult' or something.

Keep gulping down that fresh air Gary.

Being a premie means being a mindless cult member, worshipping a guru who has less chance of saving you than a lollipop lady, and believing god tastes like snot.

Huh. Time for a change methinks.

Burn them beragons, take down the pictures, sleep, have fun, get your life back.

Anth the On the Way

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Oct 17, 1999 at 20:26:32 (EDT)
From: gregg
Email: binduesque@yahoo.com
To: Gary
Subject: Re: Need Support
Message:
Hi Gary. I was down w/ the Guru from Jan75 to Sept/78. It seemed much longer. It seemed like it was going to be a reason for living. Happily, we don't need a 'reason' for living. Living is living, and living is great. Even though I don't always live that feeling!

Things drop away. When this GMJ thing drops away, you'll be happier: you will be able to relax into what is, instead of what should be according to the dictates of a distorted Hindu belief system.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Oct 17, 1999 at 19:02:21 (EDT)
From: Enough
Email: None
To: Gary
Subject: Re: Need Support
Message:
Gary --did you get my email?--It's a new account and I'm a little unfamiliar w/how to operate it.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Oct 17, 1999 at 21:11:35 (EDT)
From: Gary
Email: gme109@earthlink.net
To: Enough
Subject: Re: Need Support
Message:
I'm not sure, was the subject titled recent exes form?
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Oct 17, 1999 at 18:07:23 (EDT)
From: Cynthia G.
Email: cynthia@madriver.com
To: Gary
Subject: Re: Need Support
Message:
this also took me away from the premie community during my time away because had begun a different life. This is a dificult time, but be patient. Some of the posts you read here contain a lot of anger as well as humor. If you can find your anger, you will probably feel better and be able to appreciate the humor.

I have been in psychotherapy for 9 years because of severe childhood abuse which caused me to become a person with multiple personality disorder (now called DID or dissociative identity disorder). I never thought I'd say I am fortunate that I have MPD, but when I spoke to my therapist a few days ago about my decision to extract myself completely form the cult she said 'You know Cynthia, for the past nine years you (the core person) told me you had been involved in a cult. So when you went back I was a bit worried, but I believe it was one of your alters (or parts) that was a premie.' She was right and I'm fortunate that I know that no one can own my soul, mind and heart.

The reason I feel fortunate is that I have worked very hard to unravel the horrific belief system that was instilled in me by my own father, my abuser. It's hard work to change one's thought prcocess, especially when you get caught up in a cult. M doesn't own me anymore. In fact, if it wasn't for the miracle of my mind, I would never have survived my childhood. You see, MPD is something that children do to survive so much physical and psychological pain that if we don't split off and create new people inside our heads (which manifest later in life as alternate personalities), we'd literally die.

Leaving m will be easier and easier as time goes on. It is truly a healing process that you will experience. I believe strongly that anyone exiting a cult should (I hate that word) try to get some counseling from someone trustworthy and who has experience with cults.

I don't want to minimize anyone's experience being in m's cult, and the difficulties we experience making a break. But I have met so many other peple like me (with MPD) who are survivors of satanic and ritual abuse cults (which are everywhere). Having heard their stories (some information they wouldn't tell be about because they were afraid for MY safety), I tend to think that I got off pretty easy being in m's cult . But there was abuse there too. Those women and men with whom I became close have suffered so much heinous abuse and have to change their identities out in the world because they actually are programmed to come back and are hunted by the cults--they don't have a choice in the matter--it's so sad.

The good news is that we do have the ability to make the choice to leave and I admire your courage in asking for help. email me if you wish. There's a grieving process that takes place and because of all of the losses and betrayal don't fight it. You may feel confused for a while but that's okay too. You're free. Honor yourself for having the courage to take care of your real self.

I wish you the best, Cynthia

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Oct 19, 1999 at 00:44:11 (EDT)
From: bill burke
Email: None
To: Cynthia G.
Subject: Support
Message:
Hi Cindy, Cynthia G.
I am just guessing but I think you know Gary as well
as me. I am thinking this is Gary from Hartford.
Hint, he was the poster boy for the ashram sisters.

For all forum members, Cynthia sang in our premie band
and she was/is really a great singer.
The first time I played with her was as the bass player
when we jammed 'Kansas City' when they made the kansas
city festival announcement to our 'community'.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Oct 17, 1999 at 15:55:39 (EDT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: Gary
Subject: Re: Need Support
Message:
Dear Gary,
I don't know if I can relate or help but I do want to just tell you that I am glad you've taken this step and I am sure there are others here who have lived similar stories. A friend of mine here held similar beliefs for over 20 years although I don't think it bothered him but he felt M was still the Lord until I started to talk to him about my finding this site. It really hit him strongly when I had some ex-premie's come to visit this summer. People I have come to love through the forums and more through personal emails. I invited this friend here also, to meet the other ex's. I didn't expect it to affect him so but it really did so I am sure being here will help you also.
Good luck and happy healing. :)
Love,
Robyn
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Oct 17, 1999 at 15:14:05 (EDT)
From: Helen
Email: HelenRDC@aol.com
To: Gary
Subject: Re: Need Support
Message:
I don't post here much anymore but I have been lurking a bit lately. Perhaps because you say so plainly that you need support, or perhaps because my husband's name is also Gary, I read your post.

I have been an expremie a long time but it wasn't until finding this website last October that I was able to 'close the chapter' of my life & realize how deeply I had fallen prey to a real self-serving conartist.
It is painful to realize that the behaviors learned while a premie (pushing away others and thinking of the world as an illusion, for example) are not suitable for healthy and meaningful life!! When I left M around '84 I found therapy very helpful and well as plugging into old interests I once found meaningful (such as grad school, music, work, getting out and seeing plays, exhibits, etc) . Anything to help you re-integrate with the world and see the vast variety of ideas, people etc, out there. I am sure you already know this and have done this to a great extent. The hard part is letting go of a belief system that has become habit and that served you at one point, but now you have outgrown. A lot of my problem leaving premie-dom was that I truly liked having the support and the fun, crazy energy of the premies--but M's message increasingly was crazy-making to me, and I had to let it go and find healthier ways of expressing spirituality.

I wish you all the best, Gary. Remember that no huge lifechange or change in thinking occurs overnight. It takes time to rearrange your thinking and find out how to live without the guru. The important thing is being able to trust yourself and finding out what works for you. Feel free to email me if you wish.
Helen

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Oct 17, 1999 at 15:05:00 (EDT)
From: Katie
Email: mishkat@gateway.net
To: Gary
Subject: Re: Need Support
Message:
Dear Gary -
I found your post very moving. I received K in 72 and practiced until 77, when I decided to leave. I was fortunate in that when I left, I REALLY left - no contact with premies, no programs, no nothing. I was also fortunate that I was very young (received K at age 16), and didn't stay involved very long. However, I would say it took me about a year after I made my decision to leave to feel 'normal' again.

After I found the forum and the ex-premie.org site, I realized that there were a lot of people in your position - they had pretty much stopped practicing K, but still attended a few programs here and there and so forth. Many of these people have been able to finally 'let go' of M as a result of conversing with other people on the forum. I might add that there are other people who post here who are still in the same situation that you are - in the process of letting go - and I think that's OK. I think that letting go of a deeply held personal belief takes a lot of time, and it requires a re-examination of your whole personal belief system, which can be very difficult - even traumatic. Also, there is the question of what to REPLACE your belief in Maharaji with - that's a hard question, and many of us are still struggling with it.

If there's any advice I can give, it would be to give yourself a break. Realize that you may not 'let go' immediately - you've been immersed in the same belief system for 25 years. And I really urge you to keep on reading and posting on the forum, and to read the Journeys on the ex-premie.org site.

Take care of yourself, Gary -
Katie

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Oct 20, 1999 at 00:36:30 (EDT)
From: kmdarling
Email: unlimited@aol.com
To: Gary
Subject: Re: Need Support
Message:
Dear Gary

Thanks for asking for support! I remember when I was leaving, I was very, very scared and confused. Everyone I knew was a premie, for one thing. But the most intense thing was that on some really deep level, I was afraid that Maharaji was God and that he would cast me out of all happiness and grace if I didn't continue to worship him. Well, the good news is, the lightening never struck, the divine meat-axe never fell! I'm doing better than ever 16 years later! I wish I’d had support like this back then.

I, too, recommend that you look for some really good counseling, perhaps to discover how your involvement with Maharaji might have been a mirroring or a reiteration of some older issue that you might not have resolved inside, such as stuff about your parents or some family dynamic that might have been repeated through your involvement with MJ. It can remove the conditioning in huge chunks when these connections get made! If you can find some kind of therapeutic work that involves breathwork and actually gets you into your body (part of the negative effect of Knowledge on me was that it got me out of my body) then all the better. That’s what really helped me, and went on to become my profession (I don’t see private clients any more). Where are you located? I may be able to refer you to someone.
Like someone said in one of the many brilliant responses you have received, it feels better after you leave, like giving up smoking, after a while. But I remember the first year after giving up smoking (which I did BEFORE meeting Maharaji at 18!) there were times when the cravings would come up and at those times it really helped to have something to do. Maybe coming to this page might help at those times. The best thing is to develop some friendships with people who have left and not only survived but thrived and there are many of us.

It’s going to get better and better!

Love Katie Darling (a different Katie from the last one)

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Oct 17, 1999 at 14:29:42 (EDT)
From: Enough
Email: Enough@thedoghousemail.com
To: Gary
Subject: Re: Need Support
Message:
I always felt that, with a few exceptions, premies were just out for themselves. This is understandable, in that their master is just out for himself.

Do not think that it is something lacking in you. If that were true, why would the vast majority of people who have received knowledge, in the western world anyway, walked away from Maharaji? I maintain it is because something is lacking in what he teaches.

Do not despair you are not alone. Read the stuff here and in the provided links. Feel free to email me--enough@thedoghousemail.com

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Oct 17, 1999 at 09:45:35 (EDT)
From: Enough
Email: None
To: new ex's& lurkers
Subject: Support
Message:
Hi all,

About this time of year in 1973, I began aspiring to be Brainwashed. From that point, until 1996, I was pretty much into it(except for a couple of space out periods-women and drugs). The highest rank I ever achieved was mid-level management(that was disgusting enough). I was pretty much just Mr. Ordinary premie. I bought the cult line.

In early Dec., 1996, I began driving North to the Long Beach PROGRAM-I repeat PROGRAM. Mr. Mind got me thinking about whether this whole M/K trip was really helping. I turned right and drove 3000 miles across country instead. I was a walkaway(more like slinkaway). I didn't doubt M or K I doubted myself.

For the next couple of years, I suffered, knowing that I would never go back unless M made it very clear He wanted me. I was a mess.

Then, last year I bought myself a computer and began lurking at what was then, Forum III. My first reaction was these are mostly old-ex's who don't know what is going on now. After reading posts for a couple of months, I understood that there really have been no changes of substance and that these old ex's were actually very helpful to me.

I no longer am a slinkaway. I am going thru a process I call de-contamination. There are many phases-some repeating-just like drug withdrawal. I have finally said Enough of this Guru stuff (censored) and feel like I am coming out of a deep fog. There are many good people here.

These people (unless you believe the Blackdog theory or think it is just a dream of Mistress Grammar)will be helpful to you whether you choose to post or not.

When I first started posting, I used an alias for many reasons. Fear of the cult was probably the biggest. Now, I still post as Enough, for only one reason. I like getting cult info and back door satsang from the few premies I am still in contact with on a regular basis. I am beyond being re-hypnotized. It just helps me think how I was affected then and how I am affected now.

I'm hoping this may be of some value to someone.

Sincerely,

Enough

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Oct 17, 1999 at 10:08:38 (EDT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: Enough
Subject: Re: Support
Message:
Dear Enough,
Thanks for your story. I got into this whole thing in 1973 also but was out by 1979, thank god! I hope to read more here in the winter when I don't want to go outside in the cold! I haven't read enough of most people to feel I really KNOW them, beyond those that were here when I started to post but I always like your posts that I do read and remember a kind post that you wrote to me once. I wish you continued luck with your 'de-contamination', it sounds like you have had some bad times with it and I hope the worst is behind you.
Love and support to you Enough from,
Robyn
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Oct 17, 1999 at 14:52:26 (EDT)
From: Enough
Email: None
To: Robyn
Subject: I'm jealous.....
Message:
that you get to go to the Bay Area. Have fun.

Thanks for your kind reply. I wouldn't say I'm back to normal since I really don't remember what that was. However, life is becoming more enjoyable. So, that's pretty good.

I suspect that you are not as spacey as you sometimes describe yourself.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Oct 17, 1999 at 16:05:50 (EDT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: Enough
Subject: Re: I'm jealous.....
Message:
Dear Enough,
I am going to SF to see my daughter who moved there about a year ago. We talked for 2 hrs on the phone today and I miss her terribly. It is just a side benifit that she lives in a famous city and that there are some other excellent ex-premies that I will get to meet while I am there. I grew up near NYC but have become a country bumpkin big time in the last 20 years so I am a bit nervous about being in a big city for a week, a new adventure! :)
Love,
Robyn
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Oct 17, 1999 at 16:21:04 (EDT)
From: Enough
Email: None
To: Robyn
Subject: Re: I'm jealous.....
Message:
Robyn,

You are in for a real treat. I've been all over the U.S. and to all the major cities-not just as a premie. I dislike all of them except S. F. It is how a city should be. It has a very vibrant feeling yet is not real big. I've been there much since I've had family there in the area since 1965. It will be a great adventure.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Oct 17, 1999 at 15:11:49 (EDT)
From: Katie
Email: mishkat@gateway.net
To: Enough
Subject: The truth about Robyn!
Message:
Hi Enough (and hi Robyn!),
Robyn is one of the best friends I've made on the forum - we've been corresponding for years, and have met a few times in the real world. You hit the nail on the head when you said that Robyn is not as spacey as she sometimes describes herself. She's an very intelligent, caring, and capable woman (Robyn, I hope you don't mind me revealing all this stuff here!). We have degrees in similar fields, and I don't mind telling you that Robyn has done a lot more with hers than I have with mine! (Now if she would only learn to read a map - snicker!)

Anyway, that's the truth about Robyn, as I see it, anyway.

Take care, both of you -
Katie

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Oct 17, 1999 at 16:02:20 (EDT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: Re: The truth about Robyn!
Message:
Dear Katie and Enough,
Awh shucks... Thank you both for your kind words. It is nice to hear you don't think I am spacey Katie. I think you should talk to Hank about that though. :) I do think it is part of me but that I also don't give my intellegence and other qualities enough credit.
Love,
Robyn
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Oct 17, 1999 at 19:09:56 (EDT)
From: Sister Mary Elephant
Email: None
To: Robyn
Subject: That's "intelligence" not "intellegence,' dear. (nt)
Message:
nt
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Oct 17, 1999 at 16:36:59 (EDT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Robyn
Subject: Re: The truth about Robyn!
Message:
Hi Robyn! Glad you didn't mind my little disclosure :).

After meeting Hank, I am sure that she tolerates NO spaciness whatsoever, but I live with a somewhat spacey person (& aren't we all somewhat spacey?), so I'm used to a certain amount of it. Not to mention the fact that I can be quite spacey myself at times, especially when under stress.

Anyway, I do think you don't give your intelligence enough credit, not to mention your MANY other exceptional qualities.

Love,
Katie

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Oct 18, 1999 at 16:27:03 (EDT)
From: Minnesota Housewife
Email: None
To: Robyn
Subject: Advice for Robyn
Message:
!
Robyn, I personally think that you suffer from what is known as 'Beauty contestant syndrome.' Ya! Having been 'Miss Anything Goes 1999' and all, after awhile you start to think of yourself as just another pretty face!! Noone takes ya seriously, ya know? What's a girl to do? This happened to me when I was voted 'Miss Minnehaha Moose Falls'. From then on it was this photo op,and that supermarket grand opening. I finally had to do something for me, you betcha, and that's when I started my former beauty contestant support group on the internet!! We swap recipes too, dontcha know, my recipe for marshamllow jello is there this week!
http//when a crown gets you down.com
In sisterhood,
Minnesota Housewife
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Oct 18, 1999 at 21:39:56 (EDT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: Minnesota Housewife
Subject: Re: Advice for Robyn
Message:
Dear Minni,
Can I call you Minni. Thanks.
Listen Minni, I am the REIGNING Miss Anything Goes, Summer Babe, 1999. I have about had it with people not using my full title! I am still using my year's supply of Sally May hair products and Dr. Snortwicks foot care products. My garage is still stacked with Crispy Critters cereal boxes with my picture on them, thank you very much!
If I find myself down and out five years from now I'll let you know but I don't think so. I do already feel the pressures of holding my title, Summer 2000. I'll keep the URL just in case.
Love,
MAGBS1999
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Oct 17, 1999 at 05:41:07 (EDT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: All
Subject: An answer to a question
Message:
I got a question about The truth about Maharaji website which is on Geocities.

Someone was finding it was not downloading at all. The reason for this is because Geocities do sometimes have periods when their server isn't working properly but it usually corrects itself within a day or so.

I think you'll find that The truth about Maharaji website is OK now.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Oct 16, 1999 at 23:49:53 (EDT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: All
Subject: innocent question
Message:
from a not so innocent ex:
really, no legalities involved!
I was wondering, does anyone know: did
M have a house in Coconut Grove while in his Miami
days? And did he dock that boat Wadi Su or whatever it was called there somewhere in Coconut
Grove? Wanted to know for personal reasons.

and...
Hi all. Miss a lot of you!

selene ex ex

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Oct 19, 1999 at 16:47:59 (EDT)
From: Caritas
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: Re: innocent question
Message:
Hey Selene,

I could probably find out the info for you but have no clue as to how to get my e-mail address to you or yours to me.

Do you have a MOO set up yet?

L,
Caritas

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Oct 21, 1999 at 10:53:28 (EDT)
From: Dr Octopus
Email: planetqwerty@postmaster.co.uk
To: Caritas
Subject: Re: innocent question
Message:
Caritas, your pretence at ignorance, not to mention the fact that your 'handle' was intended for a certain someone else (moi-meme?) makes the con soooooo transparent. Wake up. Karma is spelt with a K. And is paid for with an ouch.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Oct 17, 1999 at 12:47:01 (EDT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: Hi Selene (ot)
Message:
Hi Selene!
Recently back from a long trip with lots of news - will write soon. Or drop me a line if you can.
Love,
Katie
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Oct 18, 1999 at 17:44:19 (EDT)
From: selene
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: Re: Hi Selene (ot)
Message:
Hi back at ya Katie.
I'm looking forward to hearing from you.
It's funny I know someone has the info I requested but no one answered. Then there will be endless threads of
who would could should be blocked or some other junk..
Go figure.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Oct 16, 1999 at 22:42:11 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Blue Aquarius reunion gig
Message:
This BA talk's got me thinking. Wouldn't it be hilarious to get a bunch of these guys together again and have them ....

no, how about a ..

ah forget it

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Oct 16, 1999 at 22:55:44 (EDT)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Re: Blue Aquarius reunion gig
Message:
Sort of like your 'Guru Party'...too bad we can't have an ex 'event'...

Jim you could be the Weird Al Heller, do parodies of our favorite tunes. Someone could play the Lard. Dress up in a Mala and dance, dance dance. We could all wear our porcelain neclaces and swans. We could do little skits ' Like nothin like a little congac and a good smoke after Darshan'. Someone could dress up as Guru Charnanand and do a parody of 'Downpour' . It could be really really funny.

Maybe EV would sell us their mailing list. Enough ex's seem to be on it. All the fun without out the risk.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Oct 18, 1999 at 10:07:37 (EDT)
From: Nigel
Email: nigel@redcrow.demon.co.uk
To: Susan
Subject: And the chap Charlie knows,
Message:
the songwriter, could finally get to do his revised version of his bit hit number: 'Satguru, your face is like my fucking arse!' with full big-band accompaniment... (and Larkin would bring his mandolin).
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Oct 18, 1999 at 12:11:12 (EDT)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: LOL LOL (nt)
Message:
nt
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Oct 16, 1999 at 22:26:22 (EDT)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Picket line signs needed
Message:
If we were to picket an event we would need some catchy signs why don't we do a little pre planning now.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Oct 17, 1999 at 10:41:04 (EDT)
From: Enough
Email: None
To: Susan
Subject: We Luv Our Hypnopotamus(nt)
Message:
nt
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Oct 17, 1999 at 10:53:13 (EDT)
From: Enough
Email: None
To: Susan
Subject: Should I stop?
Message:
Drugs--SEX & GMJ
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Oct 17, 1999 at 04:09:29 (EDT)
From: Enough
Email: None
To: Susan
Subject: Re: Picket line signs needed
Message:
Is You Is or Is You Ain't da Lord
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Oct 16, 1999 at 22:27:43 (EDT)
From: who made this one up?
Email: None
To: Susan
Subject: Realize Knowledge: Become an Ex Premie
Message:
nt
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Oct 17, 1999 at 16:38:55 (EDT)
From: Ms. K
Email: None
To: who made this one up?
Subject: Calling RT
Message:
Where's RT when you need him?

Where Knowledge Brought Us.
Just Say Know.
M's Ocean is a Moat.

and many many more.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Oct 16, 1999 at 22:39:11 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: who made this one up?
Subject: Raja Ji Rules!
Message:
Maybe it's time to play the Raja Ji card. How funny it'd be to have a few animated picketeers out front trying to urge everyone to follow Raja Ji, the real Hamster. And there are reasons:

He wasn't as ugly as Prempal.

He wasn't as fat as Prempal.

He wasn't as short as Prempal.

He was easier to fall asleep to (this is important in the long run).

He was more into having 'friends'.

I would then have a really cool darshan story about the time the Lord came to my office and let me buy him a drink.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Oct 17, 1999 at 15:13:24 (EDT)
From: JW
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Nonsense -- Satpal
Message:
Think about it Jim. Let's fan the flames of a religious war between the two Rawats who both claim to be THE Perfect Master.

At Maharaji 'programs' we show up as devotees of Satpal and picket carrying signs and handing out leaflets telling the premies and anyone who will listen that Satpal (aka Bal Bhagwan Ji) is the TRUE Perfect Master and that Maharaji is a fake, untrue perfect master who is conning people (we should try to get the press there, too.)

Then at Satpal programs, we picket as premies, with signs and leaflets saying that Satpal is an interloper Perfect Master and is conning people and that Prem Pal is the true Perfect Master. We should recruit stupid premies (an oxymoron I know) to join us as 'service' to Maharaji.

Before you know it, we'd have a little religious war and it will be covered in People Magazine.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Oct 17, 1999 at 16:25:18 (EDT)
From: Enough
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: Re: Nonsense -- Satpal
Message:
That's funny. We could even have mock debates between both sides at Maharaji programs. Tastes great! Less filling!
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Oct 17, 1999 at 17:55:25 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Enough
Subject: Re: Nonsense -- Satpal
Message:
Yeah, that's right. Raja Ji's just a lame joke but Satpal's a lame joke made flesh (or, as we was wont to say, as Shp might still be wont to say, 'manifest'). It'd be pretty funny to bus in a bunch of Satpal wonks and let them all have at each other. Don't know why something like that hasn't already happened in India or England. Hm, maybe it has.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Oct 17, 1999 at 18:19:43 (EDT)
From: Enough
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Re: Nonsense -- Satpal
Message:
I like that word--wonk. Never heard it before but it says a lot.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Oct 18, 1999 at 10:26:45 (EDT)
From: Nigel
Email: nigel@redcrow.demon.co.uk
To: Enough
Subject: Hey, let's propagate!!!
Message:
Instead of turning up at an EV gig as Satpal supporters, we could arrive as devotional-era premies, with lapel buttons and sandwich boards, proclaiming: 'Guru Maharaji - The Lord of the Universe!' / 'I declare I will establish peace of Earth in my lifetime' / 'The saviour of mankind has arrived on the planet' etc. The night before, you could flypost the whole area with posters of the Hamster in full Krishna uniform. Hey we could ALL wear Krishna crowns - papier-mache or something. Hang around the front door bellowing 'Lord of the Universe' at the top our lungs. Print out hundreds of leaflets from the stuff on J-M's site, like the 'dead seeds' satsang, or the one where M explains what happens when we die. Hand them out to passers-by, grinning blissfully...
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Oct 18, 1999 at 21:44:12 (EDT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: Re: Hey, let's propagate!!!
Message:
Dear Nigel,
This is an excellent idea, real catchy and to the point.
I thought I heard maybe Willie Krantz wasn't really dead, like JR Eweing (sp). I hope you didn't get that show, Dallas, in England though.
Love,
Robyn
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Oct 18, 1999 at 16:01:06 (EDT)
From: Enough
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: Re: Hey, let's propagate!!!
Message:
Can I be a guy who received K in Denver circa 1973 and went back into the hills. 'where's Mata Ji, Where's Bal Bgwanji, Do you still sing Lord of the Universe?'

All in a very loud voice, of course!

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Oct 18, 1999 at 10:41:39 (EDT)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: Re: Hey, let's propagate!!!
Message:
Yes, this would be effective and a fun. We could blow up a life size ( well I know that would not be very big ) mala photo and charged premies to have their pic taken dance, dance , dancing with the guru?
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Oct 18, 1999 at 16:14:53 (EDT)
From: Joey
Email: None
To: Susan
Subject: Re: Hey, let's poopagate!!!:::))
Message:
Susan,
Im afraid we'll have to do better than that. Premies are being charged as it is for the privilege of dancing with m, they just may not be realizing it. And of course if grace comes their way, a clip of them dancing can end up in the video afterwards.
However, most of them really don't know HOW to dance. And this is where we can come in, offering them passes to Arthur Murray's Dance Studio or whatever...and of course charging them handsomely, no doubt. We can advertise our services as follows:

Just because your master dances like a putz...it doesn't mean you have to!!

Whadd'ya think??

But I'll tell you this right off. If you think its a good idea, then I suggest we get on it right away...or else, Chuck Nathan might steal it!!:::))

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Oct 18, 1999 at 10:55:35 (EDT)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: Susan
Subject: Re: Hey, let's propagate!!!
Message:
But all the flyers have to have a notation at the bottom:

www.ex-premie.org

Marianne

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Oct 16, 1999 at 22:46:21 (EDT)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Re: Raja Ji Rules!
Message:
that would be funny. Just stand outside the event worshipping Raja Ji. If Raja Ji is anything like his other sibs I am sure he would oblige. He sort of has the I am not Michael or Jermaine, or Donny or Marie..just a back up singer.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Oct 17, 1999 at 21:04:32 (EDT)
From: b
Email: c
To: a
Subject: test
Message:
test
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Oct 18, 1999 at 05:24:56 (EDT)
From: Steve McGarrett
Email: None
To: b
Subject: Book 'em Dano!
Message:
Ok, b, we've got enough on you now! Not sure what you're doing, but it ain't right. In fact, it's sick and wrong and you're headed downtown.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Oct 16, 1999 at 22:51:44 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Susan
Subject: I want to BE Raja Ji
Message:
Truth be told, I, too, want to be too cool to articulate, too smart to ever make sense, too full of love to look like I give a damn about anything.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Oct 16, 1999 at 20:07:11 (EDT)
From: Forum Administrator
Email: None
To: All
Subject: BLOCKINGS
Message:
Catweasel, Johnny Morris and Maharaji Buster are BLOCKED.
Threats and obcenities cannot be tolerated in this space.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Oct 18, 1999 at 20:41:55 (EDT)
From: Johnny Morris
Email: None
To: Forum Administrator
Subject: Re: BLOCKINGS
Message:
Can't keep a good man down (or out!!)
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Oct 17, 1999 at 05:44:20 (EDT)
From: Blind Freddy
Email: None
To: Forum Administrator
Subject: Re: BLOCKINGS
Message:
Prat!!
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Oct 16, 1999 at 20:09:38 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Forum Administrator
Subject: Thanks
Message:
nt
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Oct 16, 1999 at 20:19:35 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: On second thought
Message:
I'm just wondering what MB did that was so bad. Was it that post about 'poophead'? FA, I don't know...are you really implementing a 'no swearing' policy? I'm not sure that's wise or necessary myself.

See, the thing with Cat (may he rest in peace) was that he obviously wanted nothing but to disrupt and spit at any real communication here. He committed both deadly sins: spamming and threatening. Those rules were clear (and necessary), he knew it and he deserved what he got.

I really don't see what MB's done that's all that bad myself. Personally? I think that threats and spam simply can't be tolerated. Obscenity, on the other hand, opens a whole can of worms in terms of taste and judgement calls which, in the end, might not really need opening anyway. My two cents worth.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Oct 16, 1999 at 20:32:08 (EDT)
From: Forum Administrator
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Re: On second thought
Message:
If you had been here earlier you would have seen an extremely offensive picture in that slot
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Oct 16, 1999 at 21:12:44 (EDT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: david@xyzx.freeserve.co.uk
To: Forum Administrator
Subject: A tip for Jim and where obscenities are welcome
Message:
I think people should be pointed to The ANYTHING GOES forum where obscenities are acceptable.

Incidentally, Jim, if you're reading this; a simple way to load all the posts every time you click on the Favourites link to this forum, is to save the full posts forum to your favourites menu. That means you delete the old favourites link and then click on 'view all' in this forum.

When all the posts are downloaded, you just bookmark THAT page (which has a slightly different URL to the limited posts forum).

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Oct 16, 1999 at 21:22:01 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: Thick as a .... what was that? Come on, help me out.... stick?
Message:
David,

I've got this feeling you're teaching me something important but I don't get it. I WANT to get it but I don't.

Ruff ruff??

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Oct 16, 1999 at 21:37:48 (EDT)
From: Thick as a plank
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Re: Thick as a .... what was that? Come on, help me out.... stick?
Message:
For it is I. Occasionally my alter-ego has flashes of inspiration and even appears to be intellegent. OK let's write this in stages:

Right, you're in this forum IV. OK, that's what is on your computer screen, the Forum IV posts and as usual, it's only downloaded 100 posts and it says 'Showing 100 Messages - View All'

So I am assuming you got to the forum via a bookmark in your favourites menu. Right, now DELETE that bookmark (or whatever it's called).

So now you have no bookmark or favourites menu item to this forum. Fine.

Now you click on 'View All' near the top of the forum and all the posts are downloaded.

Then you add THAT to your Favourites menu or bookmarks thingy (in Netscape).

And then, next time you go to your Favourites menu and click on the Forum IV menu item, ALL the posts will be downloaded, WITHOUT you having to click on 'View All'.

Of course, you don't have to delete the old Forum IV bookmark first and if you don't, you'll be asked if you want to overwrite it when you try to save the new Forum IV bookmark. Just click that you DO want to overwrite it.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Oct 16, 1999 at 21:46:09 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Thick as a plank
Subject: Oh THAT... everyone knows THAT
Message:
Actually, everyone but me, perhaps. That's cool, David. Thanks much.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Oct 16, 1999 at 21:49:35 (EDT)
From: Thick as a plank
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Re: Oh THAT... everyone knows THAT
Message:
Well I only just worked it out yesterday.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Oct 16, 1999 at 21:54:29 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Thick as a plank
Subject: Re: Oh THAT... everyone knows THAT
Message:
Really, it's great. I set the forum as my 'Home' site and so now I can just hit home for everything. That 'view all' hurdle was a real drag. This is great. Now if only they'd make some keyboard commands for 'next post' and such.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Oct 16, 1999 at 19:28:52 (EDT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: All
Subject: With the master in Prem Nagar
Message:
You couldn't want for more; to be with the Lord with several thousand other sweaty devotees at his place in Prem Nagar. The only trouble is, dear premies, is that this is the wrong Lord or is he the right one?

Judge for yourself and see the Lord with his devotees at Prem Nagar.

From a distance it looks like it is Maharaj Ji sitting on that throne. It is!

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Oct 16, 1999 at 19:54:31 (EDT)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: Just the family business
Message:
I saw a 60 minutes once about this group of people in the Southeast who make their money in Home Improvement scams. It is a scam that has been passed on from generation to generation. These people, they have a name I do not recall, have their own subculture and ethos. They are raised to rip people off; taught these ways from childhood.

Remind you of anything?

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Oct 16, 1999 at 19:44:12 (EDT)
From: Cynthia G.
Email: cynthia@madriver.com
To: Sir Dave
Subject: Re: With the master in Prem Nagar
Message:
Sir Dave,

I've seen recent videos of the Maharaji in India and he is definitely siting on a big stage, way high up with his feet on a pillow (no shoes, just socks) like he used to do in the U.S.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Oct 16, 1999 at 20:04:17 (EDT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: david@xyzx.freeserve.co.uk
To: Cynthia G.
Subject: In case anyone doesn't know
Message:
Just to explain who Satpal (formerly Bal Bagwan Ji) is; he is our Maharaji's eldest brother who calls himself Maharaj Ji and the chosen one by his Father, Shri Hans Maharaji Ji.

The ashram complex at Prem Nagar used to belong to the whole Maharaji (Rawat) family but Satpal won sole ownership of it after a bitter court case against Maharaji in the seventies.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Oct 16, 1999 at 17:47:33 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Hey, Charlie (re Blue Aquarius)
Message:
Charlie,

Regarding your reply to me below about the old Blue Aquarius hep cats, no, I didn't know any of them. Sounds like you've got a few potential leads, if you wanted to follow them, to check out Bob's 'Band-on-the-Run' story. (For the record, I personally have no problem believing Bob after talking with him and his friend John a couple of times. They sounded pretty honest to me.) I think some confirmation or elaboration of the story would invaluable. If the tale's true, it belies any notion that Maharaji's beyond using a little muscle if necessary. I think this story should be centre-stage if it's true. So, any efforts you or anyone else can undertake would be most appreciated, I'm sure.

Anyone else? Anyone else know anything about this allegation that Raja Ji and some premie goons did a home invasion on Blue Aquarius, beat them all up a bit and scared them into fleeing L.A.? Yeah? How about guns? Were there any guns there? What happened anyway?

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Oct 16, 1999 at 15:08:31 (EDT)
From: questions
Email: None
To: All
Subject: server hangup
Message:
everytime i try to download something from the other forum, about m's carrying on's, i get server hangup at the point that 39% of the document is transferred. can anyone help me?
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Oct 17, 1999 at 07:42:37 (EDT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: questions
Subject: Re: server hangup
Message:
See my answer in 'Answer to a question' above.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Oct 16, 1999 at 15:16:38 (EDT)
From: Maharaj Ji Buster
Email: None
To: questions
Subject: Re: server hangup
Message:
everytime i try to download something from the other forum, about m's carrying on's, i get server hangup at the point that 39% of the document is transferred. can anyone help me?

The problems with your own pc and ISP man. Everything's smooth for me.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Oct 16, 1999 at 14:59:28 (EDT)
From: Maharaj Ji Buster
Email: None
To: All
Subject: A Tribute to the Lord of the World
Message:
offensive picture removed
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Oct 16, 1999 at 15:30:59 (EDT)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: None
To: Maharaj Ji Buster
Subject: For the record - not me
Message:
Sound File

P.S. I really blissed out now that I have a sound card.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Oct 16, 1999 at 15:21:20 (EDT)
From: Anonymous
Email: None
To: Maharaj Ji Buster
Subject: Re: A Tribute to the Lord of the World
Message:
Let us have a small contest. Let's have some fun with our Photoshop and see who is able to create the most humilliating Maharaj Ji fake photo. I am thinking of doing one with his head submerged in the toilet. Another one would be Maharaj Ji head in a fat girls naked bod. The winner get's the latest vid.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Oct 16, 1999 at 15:12:10 (EDT)
From: Enough
Email: None
To: Maharaj Ji Buster
Subject: Truly a Shithead(nt)
Message:
nt
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Oct 16, 1999 at 13:53:23 (EDT)
From: questions
Email: ex-premie.org
To: All
Subject: answers
Message:
I am new to the internet and new to the ex-forum,and would like to post some questions about m and the organizationthat i feel should be answered-maybe they already have been in previous letters, but here are a few of them for starters-any truthful responses would be welcomed.1)
how do premies and maharaji respond to all of his previous claims, such as I will bring peace to this world, I will give knowledge to everyone, the lion will lie down with the lamb, I have come many times before, but this time with more power than ever before...(the list goes on and on..)how do they square these with the current image he tries to project, or are they just trying to hope if they don't mention it, nobody will notice?2)does any premie claim to experience anything in the practice of the four techniques3)why are premies not supposed to talk to new people about knowledge?4)do they really think that people will not have questions about the money issues?-for instance, how much do the current live videos cost to put on?the $20 fee seems quite high, but when that question gets brought up, the organizational people all say nothing.5)does m really have numerous girlfriends, including a mistress in malibu?6)does he have a real drinking problem? These are a few questions i have for starters-i am incredulous that people who might potentially follow m would not want answers to these and other questions, as you are placing yourself in the direction of a person who seems to have lots of problems himself. Any honest opinions and answers are welcomed.thank you.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Oct 16, 1999 at 14:29:02 (EDT)
From: Ben Lurking
Email: None
To: questions
Subject: Re: answers
Message:
Welcome,

some of us that left 10-0 years ago get accused of not understanding what m said or 'he didn't say that', some of the accusers weren't even around then -they base their facts on m's version.

for some of the past discussions and 'Journeys' og over to;
http://www.ex-premie.org/forum3/

See ya around
Ben Lurking (alias)

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Oct 16, 1999 at 13:35:55 (EDT)
From: questions
Email: ex-premie.org
To: All
Subject: answers
Message:
this is the first of many questions i would like to post,and hopefully get answers to.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Oct 16, 1999 at 18:12:59 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: questions
Subject: Who are you?
Message:
Hi,

I've read your questions above and they're all right on the money. The problem (just a little one) is that they're all big issues that get canvassed regularly here. It might help if you explained yourself a bit. You know, who you are, why you're here and all that. A little context, you know?

Return to Index -:- Top of Index