Forum IV: The Ex-Premie Forum
Archive: 8
From: Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 To: Mon, Oct 25, 1999 Page: 5 Of: 5


Charlie -:- A note to travellers -:- Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 19:39:53 (EDT)
__ Lee -:- Re: A note to travellers -:- Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 19:43:29 (EDT)
__ __ Charlie -:- Re: A note to travellers -:- Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 19:48:44 (EDT)
__ __ __ Lee -:- Re: A note to travellers -:- Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 19:52:46 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Enough -:- Re: A note to travellers -:- Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 20:10:17 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Charlie -:- Re: A note to Enough -:- Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 20:33:02 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ AJW -:- 37,000 Nil -:- Sat, Oct 16, 1999 at 08:23:13 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jerry -:- How SHP would answer -:- Sat, Oct 16, 1999 at 17:22:40 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Shp -:- How Shp does answer -:- Sun, Oct 17, 1999 at 11:53:15 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jerry -:- Re: How Shp does answer -:- Sun, Oct 17, 1999 at 16:12:49 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Charlie -:- Re: A note to Dog -:- Sat, Oct 16, 1999 at 03:43:21 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Nigel -:- Pavlov's Dog? -:- Sat, Oct 16, 1999 at 01:13:33 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Charlie -:- Hey Nigel! -:- Sat, Oct 16, 1999 at 08:25:10 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Nigel -:- Re: Hey Nigel! -:- Mon, Oct 18, 1999 at 06:45:44 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Marianne -:- You're very lucky -:- Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 21:34:49 (EDT)

Katie -:- Support for recent exes -:- Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 13:19:24 (EDT)
__ Runamok -:- Re: Support for recent exes -:- Sat, Oct 16, 1999 at 01:59:49 (EDT)
__ Sir Dave -:- Go and stand in the corner, Katie -:- Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 20:18:50 (EDT)
__ __ Katie -:- Sorry, David -:- Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 20:27:54 (EDT)
__ JW -:- Re: Support for recent exes -:- Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 17:38:07 (EDT)
__ Lee -:- Re: Support for recent exes -:- Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 16:36:32 (EDT)
__ __ Sir Dave -:- Re: Support for recent exes -:- Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 20:24:19 (EDT)
__ __ __ Charlie -:- Re: Sir Dave at Topica -:- Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 20:51:48 (EDT)
__ __ Cynthia G. -:- Re: Support for recent exes -:- Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 17:08:10 (EDT)
__ __ Katie -:- Some ideas -:- Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 16:51:17 (EDT)
__ __ __ Charlie -:- Re: Some ideas -:- Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 17:18:10 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Katie -:- Re: Some ideas -:- Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 17:28:46 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Jerry -:- Giving Maharaji darshan -:- Sat, Oct 16, 1999 at 17:54:09 (EDT)
__ __ Grace -:- Lee- I'd like to get in touch with you -:- Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 16:49:56 (EDT)
__ __ __ Katie -:- Re: Lee- I'd like to get in touch with you -:- Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 16:52:40 (EDT)
__ Cynthia -:- Re: Support for recent exes -:- Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 16:24:05 (EDT)
__ Susan -:- support for recent ex's -:- Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 13:31:12 (EDT)
__ __ Monmot -:- Re: support for recent ex's -:- Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 13:53:59 (EDT)
__ Richard -:- Re: Support for recent exes -:- Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 13:29:59 (EDT)
__ __ Katie -:- Hi Richard (ot) -:- Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 15:58:34 (EDT)
__ __ Grace -:- Re: Support for recent exes -:- Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 14:44:12 (EDT)
__ __ __ Katie -:- Mixed Feelings -:- Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 15:55:12 (EDT)
__ __ __ Ben Lurking -:- Re: Support for recent exes -:- Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 15:30:33 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Jim -:- Ben, can I share my experience with you? -:- Sat, Oct 16, 1999 at 22:16:41 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Monmot -:- Re: Support for recent exes -:- Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 15:51:59 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Marianne -:- Stories of our time -:- Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 16:27:29 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Monmot -:- Re: Stories of our time -:- Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 16:31:49 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Marianne -:- LOL! LOL! [nt] -:- Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 16:37:28 (EDT)

corvuscorvae -:- Light years away -:- Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 11:47:14 (EDT)
__ AJW -:- Hi Jamie. -:- Sat, Oct 16, 1999 at 08:16:25 (EDT)
__ __ corvuscorvae -:- Re: Hi Jamie. -:- Sat, Oct 16, 1999 at 09:06:52 (EDT)
__ __ __ AJW -:- Hi again Jamie. -:- Mon, Oct 18, 1999 at 12:41:27 (EDT)
__ __ __ Fred -:- Re: Hi Jamie. -:- Mon, Oct 18, 1999 at 01:36:24 (EDT)

Cynthia G. -:- New Forum Person - Misc. Info. -:- Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 11:12:29 (EDT)
__ AJW -:- Welcome to the Wild Frontier -:- Sat, Oct 16, 1999 at 07:42:27 (EDT)
__ Enough -:- Re: - Satellite Program -:- Sat, Oct 16, 1999 at 07:00:34 (EDT)
__ __ Ben Lurking -:- Re: - Satellite Program -:- Sat, Oct 16, 1999 at 14:46:39 (EDT)
__ __ __ Enough -:- Re: - Satellite Program -:- Sat, Oct 16, 1999 at 15:09:25 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Marianne -:- Karma Chameleon -:- Sat, Oct 16, 1999 at 16:18:12 (EDT)
__ __ Cynthia G. -:- Re: - Satellite Program -:- Sat, Oct 16, 1999 at 12:53:08 (EDT)
__ bill burke -:- Re: New Forum Person - Misc. Info. -:- Sat, Oct 16, 1999 at 00:03:12 (EDT)
__ __ Cynthia G. -:- Re: New Forum Person - Misc. Info. -:- Sat, Oct 16, 1999 at 10:58:32 (EDT)
__ __ __ bb -:- Re: New Forum Person - Misc. Info. -:- Tues, Oct 19, 1999 at 00:34:00 (EDT)
__ JW -:- Hi Cynthia -:- Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 15:21:11 (EDT)
__ Richard -:- Re: New Forum Person - Misc. Info. -:- Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 13:23:24 (EDT)
__ Katie -:- Welcome, Cynthia! -:- Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 12:46:41 (EDT)
__ Marianne -:- Re: New Forum Person - Misc. Info. -:- Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 12:39:52 (EDT)
__ Lee -:- Re: New Forum Person - Misc. Info. -:- Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 12:37:19 (EDT)
__ Susan -:- Welcome Cynthia! -:- Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 12:28:30 (EDT)
__ __ Enough -:- Re: Welcome Cynthia! -:- Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 14:00:23 (EDT)
__ __ __ Lee -:- Re: Good one! -:- Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 15:54:47 (EDT)
__ Enough -:- Re: New Forum Person - Misc. Info. -:- Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 12:19:17 (EDT)
__ gerry -:- Re: New Forum Person - Misc. Info. -:- Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 11:30:54 (EDT)
__ Robyn -:- Re: New Forum Person - Misc. Info. -:- Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 11:26:07 (EDT)

Goseemee -:- 'Holy Company' -:- Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 10:27:40 (EDT)

Enough -:- Loans to DLM/EV -:- Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 03:47:44 (EDT)
__ Cynthia G. -:- Re: Loans to DLM/EV -:- Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 12:49:19 (EDT)
__ Jethro -:- Re: Loans to DLM/EV -:- Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 08:17:33 (EDT)
__ Charlie -:- Re: Loans to DLM/EV -:- Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 05:33:38 (EDT)
__ __ Enough -:- Re: Loans to DLM/EV -:- Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 15:58:31 (EDT)

grrlzone -:- Darsham:kissing feet etc -:- Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 19:46:33 (EDT)
__ AJW -:- Darsham and Dosh -:- Sat, Oct 16, 1999 at 08:10:27 (EDT)
__ __ AJW -:- Manners -:- Sat, Oct 16, 1999 at 07:56:43 (EDT)
__ __ Monmot -:- Mr. Sensitive -:- Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 23:55:33 (EDT)
__ Runima -:- Re: Darsham:kissing ass:::)) -:- Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 00:02:28 (EDT)
__ __ Runima -:- Re: Darsham:kissing ass:::)) -:- Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 00:17:05 (EDT)
__ Runamok -:- Re: Darsham:kissing feet etc -:- Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 22:03:19 (EDT)
__ __ Grrlzone is Abi OK -:- Re: Darsham:kissing feet etc -:- Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 01:30:10 (EDT)
__ __ __ Runamok -:- Re: Darsham:kissing feet etc -:- Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 12:29:23 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Marianne -:- Your true identity -:- Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 12:49:47 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Marianne -:- Totally wrong, DD -:- Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 23:14:44 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Susan -:- Grrlzone power! -:- Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 13:22:30 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Susan -:- You are disgusting deputy dog -:- Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 23:29:41 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Deputy Dog -:- Susan I apologize. (nt) -:- Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 23:39:48 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Marianne -:- APOLOGIZE ASSHOLE! -:- Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 23:51:15 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Marianne -:- Not even your own conscience? -:- Sat, Oct 16, 1999 at 00:27:56 (EDT)
__ __ __ Robyn -:- Re: Darsham:kissing feet etc -:- Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 11:32:48 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Waqidi Falicoff -:- Re: Guru Trap -:- Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 14:41:33 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Robyn -:- Re: Guru Trap -:- Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 18:18:29 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Charlie -:- Re: Guru Trap -:- Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 17:29:33 (EDT)
__ __ __ Lee -:- Re: Names -:- Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 04:03:02 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Charlie -:- Re: Names -:- Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 06:04:25 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Enough -:- Re: Names -:- Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 14:27:09 (EDT)

Larkin -:- Journey's end -:- Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 18:15:33 (EDT)
__ __ Nigel -:- What is 'Skeezix'? - and more important... -:- Sat, Oct 16, 1999 at 00:57:38 (EDT)
__ __ __ Nigel -:- (the above post was to DD - now gone - not Larkin) -:- Mon, Oct 18, 1999 at 06:52:22 (EDT)
__ Mahatma Coatanandbag -:- Re: Journey's end -:- Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 01:49:04 (EDT)
__ __ Johnny Morris -:- Re: Journey's end -:- Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 02:02:22 (EDT)
__ JW -:- Re: Journey's end -:- Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 19:41:26 (EDT)
__ grrlzone -:- Re: Journey's end -:- Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 18:22:11 (EDT)
__ __ Robyn -:- Re: Journey's end -:- Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 18:44:38 (EDT)
__ __ __ Larkin -:- Limpid revision - why not? -:- Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 05:06:06 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ JW -:- Re: Limpid revision - why not? -:- Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 10:26:36 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ microvolt -:- to larkin -:- Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 09:30:58 (EDT)


Date: Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 19:39:53 (EDT)
From: Charlie
Email: None
To: All
Subject: A note to travellers
Message:
-

Do you get it??

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Date: Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 19:43:29 (EDT)
From: Lee
Email: None
To: Charlie
Subject: Re: A note to travellers
Message:
Dear Charlie

But where did he travel to? Was it in his jet?

Lee

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Date: Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 19:48:44 (EDT)
From: Charlie
Email: None
To: Lee
Subject: Re: A note to travellers
Message:
He was travelling a great distance up his own rear orrifice!

We'd better take our discussion away from here Lee. Blackdog will complain what with us sharing an IP!!

C

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Date: Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 19:52:46 (EDT)
From: Lee
Email: None
To: Charlie
Subject: Re: A note to travellers
Message:
Dear Charlie

I think Blackdog and Deputy Dawg are in their kennels asleep. They can't stop us!

Bye for now

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Date: Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 20:10:17 (EDT)
From: Enough
Email: None
To: Lee and Charlie
Subject: Re: A note to travellers
Message:
You two are really lucky to have each other to sort thru this horrible mess we got ourselves into w/just a little help from TURDBALL.
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Date: Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 20:33:02 (EDT)
From: Charlie
Email: None
To: Enough
Subject: Re: A note to Enough
Message:
Hi Enough,

yes, I think it has now become very clear how lucky we are to have each other. I would not like to be sitting around on my own in this situation. Nevertheless there's always moments when you're unable to reach out. It could be say in the middle of the night when you get an attack and you don't want to wake your partner up. You can't sleep and you're just turning it all over in your head, round and around.

It's time like these when I end up meditating, believe it or not.

Yes, I guess I'm lucky, but then we all are in a way, except premies whose faces are still stuck in it.

Best... Charlie

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Date: Sat, Oct 16, 1999 at 08:23:13 (EDT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Deputy Dog
Subject: 37,000 Nil
Message:
Hi Dog,

Maybe you could answer a question, because in Britain, the exes seem to be ahead by about 37000 to nil.

What I mean is, out of about 40,000 people who received knowledge in the UK, about 37000 seem to have left, and none have come back.

What does that tell you about the experience of being in a cult Dog?

37,000 left and none came back.

Must have been great eh?

Anth the Statistician.

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Date: Sat, Oct 16, 1999 at 17:22:40 (EDT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: How SHP would answer
Message:
AJW,

I don't know how Nil would respond to that but I bet I know how SHP would.

'Many are called but few are chosen'.

Right, SHP? Good ol' Jesus. He's got an answer for everything, doesn't he? Jesus played the same mind games with his devotees that Maharaji plays with his. It's all about control, making the servant feel that damnation is the price of doubt.

Fuck them both.

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Date: Sun, Oct 17, 1999 at 11:53:15 (EDT)
From: Shp
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: How Shp does answer
Message:
Hi Jerry,

My response is not what you thought it would be.
My response is to live and let live and to each his or her own.
I do not judge anyone who stays or goes from anywhere.
It was a Master who said many are called, etc.....I take no such liberty, for I am no master.
You follow your head,heart, beliefs whatever and I'll follow mine.
Peaceful journey to you.
If you have some information that you consider enlightening, please let me know.
I am always interested in that kind of information.
Take care.
Sincerely,
Shp
PS As for how Jesus handled doubt, remember Thomas? He doubted, and Jesus the Christ showed up after the crucifixion and urged Thomas to stick his hand into his chest wound from the spear. He wanted Thomas to be sure, and he knew Thomas' heart was pure and without guile, he just needed proof. So Jesus honored his sincere questioning, so the story goes. And whether Jesus really died on the cross or not (I read the Passover Plot too), is not the issue. He took the time, patience and love to give one his loyal disciples the information he needed to fully believe and commit. Then Thomas went to the East and wrote the Coptic Gospel, a very beautiful and mystical piece of inspired writing. If you like to read, check it out.

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Date: Sun, Oct 17, 1999 at 16:12:49 (EDT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Shp
Subject: Re: How Shp does answer
Message:
Sandy,

I'm not interested in 'masters' or 'spiritual' reading. I've had my fill of both. I think you know that. In any event, stay well. I don't think I'll be around these parts much in the near future. I haven't felt a need to post so much lately. Maybe I'll just lurk for awhile, until I can't suppress the rush to start posting again. I think you know the drill.

See ya around.

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Date: Sat, Oct 16, 1999 at 03:43:21 (EDT)
From: Charlie
Email: None
To: Deputy Dog
Subject: Re: A note to Dog
Message:
Yes Dog,

I do meditate from time to time. However I have absolutely NO gratitude. No sir!!

As is much discussed here abouts there are many exes who do meditate. Because meditation can have beneficial effects and you may enjoy it doesn't mean that you also have to follow a fat moron sociopath as well.

It is a shame that the meditation has such awful associations for so many. Mind you, I don't have any high brow spiritual philosophy connected to meditation either.

Dog, go back to the top of this thread and tell me if that quote from M sounds like the words of a master (of what) or a nincumpoop?

Charlie

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Date: Sat, Oct 16, 1999 at 01:13:33 (EDT)
From: Nigel
Email: nigel@redcrow.demon.co.uk
To: Deputy Dog
Subject: Pavlov's Dog?
Message:
Ever heard of 'classical conditioning'?

Do you believe meditation is M's own invention?

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Date: Sat, Oct 16, 1999 at 08:25:10 (EDT)
From: Charlie
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: Hey Nigel!
Message:
Hi Nigel,

you are clearly a gifted wordsmith and I very much enjoy your poems and sermons even though others find you to be a bore. Could you do me a favour now. Finish refurbishing your journey. I keep popping over to EPO to see if it's back in place but alas it's like a library book that always out on loan.

Best... Charlie

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Date: Mon, Oct 18, 1999 at 06:45:44 (EDT)
From: Nigel
Email: nigel@redcrow.demon.co.uk
To: Charlie
Subject: Re: Hey Nigel!
Message:
Thanks Charlie,

I'll try and do the journey this week. I keep excusing myself by saying I'm busy, but that doesn't seem to keep me away from the forum, so I don't really have any excuse.

All best,
Nige

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Date: Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 21:34:49 (EDT)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: Charlie
Subject: You're very lucky
Message:
Hi Charlie and Lee! You are very lucky to have each other, and you are also very lucky to live with teenagers, who share your sensibilities and wit. I am certain that they assist in putting it all in perspective with great frequency.

Speaking of travelling, I have my ticket to Ireland. I'll be in Cork for the new year celebrations. My teaching schedule is fairly light, so I'll be haunting you British ex's several times. My never a premie spouse will be along, but he's thoroughly conversant in every aspect of the cult, including yelling at me for staring into the Big Yellow. He'll get on with all of you.

Looking forward to sharing long awaited hugs.

Marianne

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Date: Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 13:19:24 (EDT)
From: Katie
Email: mishkat@gateway.net
To: All
Subject: Support for recent exes
Message:
Hi everyone -
I've been talking to several people on the phone and via e-mail during the last several days and this topic has come up several times. Specifically, there are a lot of people now posting on the forum who were involved with M for a long time (15-25+ years), and have recently left. Many of these people left as a result of reading the forum and site.

Most of the original posters here on the forum (myself included) left the cult a number of years ago, and have no doubts that they did the right thing, that Maharaji is not 'the Lord' (or whatever). I myself rarely thought about Maharaji for almost 20 years. However, after talking to several very recent ex-premies, I have realized that there are a lot of doubts, regrets, and griefs involved in leaving M, especially when one has been involved for many years. Some of the things these people are going through remind me of what one goes through after a divorce - it's very difficult just to walk away because one tends to have many conflicting feelings. Also, giving up a major belief structure in one's life HAS to create a feeling of grief and loss - I think sometimes recent exes feel much worse for a while after leaving M then they did when they were involved in the cult.

My point is that I feel that recent exes who have mixed feelings about leaving M should have a place where they can share these feelings with others, get support and encouragement and validation (i.e. 'I feel that way too'), and thus feel that they are less alone. I am not sure if the forum is the right place to do this - it's pretty public. But I thought I'd bring up the subject in case someone else had ideas (an e-mail list-serv?). And also to encourage people who ARE having doubts and regrets about leaving M and the premie community to talk about them. I think it's really normal to have these feelings, and to go through a period of grief, but it's something that we don't talk about on the forum very much.

Take care,
Katie

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Date: Sat, Oct 16, 1999 at 01:59:49 (EDT)
From: Runamok
Email: djrayovac@aol.com
To: Katie
Subject: Re: Support for recent exes
Message:
Hi Katie,
I don't think it's just that some people are newer. There are also support issues (that we have talked about in email) which aren't dealt with in the forum.

I think the moderated email list is a good one and I think Sir Dave's forum is helpful. However, because AG is a 'take it outside kinda place' where we have gone to argue stuff at times, I wouldn't be as comfortable with Sir Dave moderating a less hostile environment. Don't get me wrong, Dave is definitely providing us a service, but I wonder if others dont feel similarly.

Email lists are easily moderated and I am interested in having a support oriented list but computer probs have slowed me down. If you would like to consider this, another obstacle is sharing the administration with someone.

Let me know if you are interested. Also people can email me if they want. I have been out for almost 20 years.

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Date: Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 20:18:50 (EDT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: Go and stand in the corner, Katie
Message:
You have not been paying attention. There is already a mailing list for ex-premie support. And guess what? It's called The Ex-premie support mailing list.

Click on the link to join or read about it.

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Date: Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 20:27:54 (EDT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: Sorry, David
Message:
I really haven't been paying attention to the forum for a while, having had other things on my mind. I think we might try to start a forum on a trial basis anyway, if you don't object :)!

Thanks, Sir D -
Love,
Katie

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Date: Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 17:38:07 (EDT)
From: JW
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: Re: Support for recent exes
Message:
Katie, I agree that any scenario that helps people talk about and get support for what they are going through leaving the cult is important and valuable. So more power to you.

But I don't think this forum is any substitute for individual counseling and face-to-face support for people doing something as intense as leaving a cult. It really is difficult, and I will never forget what it was like for me.

I would recommend to anyone all the cult-help sites on the internet and I think most of them are listed in the help section of the ex-premie.org website. Many of these organizations have local groups where you can go to get help.

I remember in 1983, when I left, I heard about this 'ex-members group' that was meeting in Berkeley. I know the Bay Area is really advanced for this kind of stuff, but that group was immensely helpful for me. The group met once a week and ONLY ex-cult-members were allowed. No therapists or counselors. So, every week there were some ex premies, ex-moonies, ex-krishnas and some others.

First, I found out, and this was very confronting, that the Maharaji cult was actually surprisingly similar to the Moonies and other cults. I know as premies we always felt superior, and that we were not only NOT a cult, and certainly that we would never be as weird as the Moonies. Not so. There are amazing similarities. Once I saw that, I stopped making exceptions for the cult I had been in and I started looking at it objectively. That was a BIG step, and I think most people need help in doing that.

The OTHER big thing was to for the first time being able look at MAHARAJI objectively. God, that took, I think, YEARS. The programming surrounding Maharaji in his cult is SO STRONG that it takes a while to break down, but that is an essential part of the process. That's why this forum is so great. You get to hear about Maharaji, and hear about him, maybe for the first time, discussed in a rational way, held to the standards of any other human being, and you find our he fails miserably. That is really helpful in breaking the chains.

Then, I think most people need some kind of counseling to help deal with the flood of emotions that come from getting free. I felt exhilarated, depressed, afraid, happy, lost, excited all at the same time, and I was really angry. I found that anger was the one emotion I could build on, and it felt great to allow myself to feel it. As a premie, anger was a sign of mind and failure, not the healthy emotion it actually is. I don't mean being consumed by anger but taking it and making something constructive out of it. I sometimes tell people that I was so angry at Maharaji, and so determined to be successful just to spite him, that the anger I felt propelled me through graduate school. I don't think that's too far off the mark.

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Date: Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 16:36:32 (EDT)
From: Lee
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: Re: Support for recent exes
Message:
Dear Katie

As a recent ex, and still going through it, I have been experiencing many things which I find hard to talk about to anyone. The idea of going to have psychotherapy crossed my mind in the early stages when I was crying all the time and thought I was going mad, but I can't afford the time or the money for that. I am fortunate in that my husband Charlie is also an ex-premie and we're kind of weathering the storm together.

On the forum, although it's open, I don't feel 'safe' to discuss really personal problems - because of the premies. I don't know if a safe area for recent exes would work - has it been tried before?

I had a panic attack - a while ago - which I hope will never happen again. I experience a lot of confusion, sadness related to premie friends and family. I don't actually have any doubts that I have done the right thing, but I didn't think that it would be so painful. I would like to come to terms with my relationship with maharaji - both the benefits and the losses, but don't know how to do this, other than sit it out and read as much as I can on cults etc.,. It does seem like a lonely battle though at times.

I guess I've been so used to having maharaji tell me what to do and what not to do that I can't work out what to do myself now.

Any suggestions?

Lee

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Date: Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 20:24:19 (EDT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: Lee
Subject: Re: Support for recent exes
Message:
I refer my honorable friend to the reply I gave some moments ago, to Katie. The Ex-premie support mailing list is there for anyone who needs it.
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Date: Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 20:51:48 (EDT)
From: Charlie
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: Re: Sir Dave at Topica
Message:
Dave,

nobody goes there. I put some messages but conversation with myself just fizzled out. OK, you and Jethro said a few words too. So with Lee and myself that's four of us. I'm sorry but it wasn't much of a party. I noticed that you called for a link to be put on F4 but it didn't happen.

Bobby Vee 1963

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Date: Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 17:08:10 (EDT)
From: Cynthia G.
Email: cynthia@madriver.com
To: Lee
Subject: Re: Support for recent exes
Message:
Dear Lee,

The only suggestion I can make to you is to privately correspond to someone you trust. I am a new ex also, but I have spent years in psychotherapy. You're probably suffering from post traumatic stress, but I don't like to label people. You deserve to feel well. Taking oneself out of a cult is a very difficult thing to do. Our believe systems, thought systems, and spirituality has been seriously fucked with. It takes time to feel well. Feel free to email me privately if you want to. That goes for anyone else out there who has a need to speak about private matters.

Please nurture yourself the best way you can. Self-love is the best medicine. Self-forgiveness helps a lot, too, but that can be a long process.

Stay safe and well......Cynthia G.

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Date: Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 16:51:17 (EDT)
From: Katie
Email: mishkat@mail.trib.net
To: Lee
Subject: Some ideas
Message:
Dear Lee and all -
I would be willing to set up either a password protected guestbook (non-threaded messages), or a forum (threaded messages, but more expensive), for recent exes. I know a lot of people on the forum, so I think I'd be able to screen the members of this group. Alternatively, recent exes could set up a group e-mail in which they could talk about things together. I'd be willing to moderate on a VERY limited AND temporary basis (i.e. blocking people who were troublemakers and so forth.)

A forum like this costs $65 per year. A guestbook cost $12 per year. The problem with guestbooks is that there are no threaded messages - it's more like letter-writing and so forth. A free 30-day trial is available on each one. Both can be password protected. I'd be willing to pay for the first year on each one, but the participants would have to come up with the money after that.

Since I am NOT a recent ex, I need input from all of you concerning this. Would the recent exes like to have your own (non-public) guestbook or forum? I can think of many people here who might be interested: Lee and Charlie, Grace, Liz, Cynthia, Gail, Richard, Barney, and so on and so forth. So let me know.

Take care, all of you,
Katie

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Date: Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 17:18:10 (EDT)
From: Charlie
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: Re: Some ideas
Message:
Hi Katie,

do you know that Sir Dave set up a sort of private discussion forum on a system run by a company called Topica? It was not very successful. In fact since it's birth 14th Sept it has only had eleven messages posted on it. Posting ceased on the 15th Sept!! He advertised this message board several times. It's a bit fiddly getting in. That was the idea. To put off blaggards, if you know what I mean.

It is also possible to build your own forum from some free scripts availaible at http://www.worldwidemart.com/scripts/ Matt's Script Archive if you have access to a CGI and some web space. I don't see why you should have to fork out $65 for us reprobates. You're very generous though. Cheers.

BTW. Jerry Garcia may be God but I thought I'd take this opportunity to put in a good word for Stevie Ray Vaughan? Although when it comes down to it we must all prostrate ourselves to Jimi. Imagine if Voodoo Chile had been selected for Darshan Tunnel playlist. Poor old Gerry Rafferty's 'Right Down the Line' has been tainted forever. Sad eh?

Best... Charlie

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Date: Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 17:28:46 (EDT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Charlie
Subject: Re: Some ideas
Message:
Hi Charlie -
Thanks for the information. I'd rather fork out 65 bucks (hey, I give a lot of money to well-deserving groups that help the world become better, and you guys sure count! Plus I know the money will be well-spent) than build my own forum!

BTW, I consider Jerry Garcia to be God (or one of many) because he truly helped free me from the clutches of Maharaji with absolutely no negative consequences. Joy, a women who used to post here a lot, said that Jerry was a true bodhisattva, and I agree. He was also a true human being (even though they did used to sing 'Ripple' in satsang - yuck!).

Love,
Katie

P.S. Never went through a darshan tunnel, thank god! But it would have been great if they played 'Friend of the Devil' (my favorite song after becoming an ex.) I probably would have turned around and left.

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Date: Sat, Oct 16, 1999 at 17:54:09 (EDT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: Giving Maharaji darshan
Message:
Katie,

I've never been through a darshan tunnel, either. I recently mentioned this to a premie I work with and he suggested that I should if I ever got the chance. I asked him, why? He said because it's inspiring. He's been on oodles of darshan lines and always got blissed doing so. I guess if you really think Maharaji is God, that would do it for you. I told him the only reason I'd go on a darshan line is to give Maharaji the finger. He said, then I shouldn't do it. Ha ha ha....

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Date: Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 16:49:56 (EDT)
From: Grace
Email: None
To: Lee
Subject: Lee- I'd like to get in touch with you
Message:
Maybe we could do so thru Katie, she has my address. If you would like to talk, have Katie send you an email with my email address.

P.S. to Katie--is this o.k.?

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Date: Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 16:52:40 (EDT)
From: Katie
Email: mishkat@gateway.net
To: Grace
Subject: Re: Lee- I'd like to get in touch with you
Message:
No problem, Grace.

P.S. to Lee - I have also had (and still have) panic attacks - they are awful! Commiserations.

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Date: Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 16:24:05 (EDT)
From: Cynthia
Email: cynthia@madriver.com
To: Katie
Subject: Re: Support for recent exes
Message:
Hello Everyone:

Thank you for the responses to my post. I really admire everyone's courage in participating in this forum and website. Support for my recent realization is actually what I have been looking for. I actually came to the conclusion about m over past few days.

The Manchester participation program feed I spoke about in my post was the catalyst for my realization about the real m. he has placed people, especially old premies in a very sad position, especially those who are filled with the old indoctrination and now have to censor themselves at his request,. He is never clear about what he wants, yet by some 'divine bolt of lightning' premies are supposed to comply with his wishes. It's absolutely crazy.

These new teams he wants to set up are also very ambigious.....that's why they are having this big international satellite feed. When I received the notice I just looked at it and felt guilt. Now I really feel freed. When I first logged onto this site I felt really creepy, like I was betraying HIM!!! As I read more and more and learned about his drinking, his absolute lack of a moral character (especially where the sexual, physical and emotional abuse is conserned), I had to believe the writers. To allow any child to be abused is unforgivable and heinous behavior--in today's world of preventing child abuse he would be considered a co-conspirator. Furthermore, if he were the lord incarnate, why would he have to cover up crimes? HE COVERED UP CRIMES AGAINST CHILDREN TO SAVE HIS OWN ASS! Then he has the nerve to speak in public about how terrible it is when people hit their kids.

I have too much to say....I apologize for my rambling. I will start my journey soon because I have a lot to say and I have witnessed a lot. But I am doing very well. I feel as if a cloud has been lifted. I feel as if that ever-present guilt is gone. I don't have to answer to him anymore. It's just wonderful.

Suggestion: Perhaps having an ongoing place for new exes to express themselves would be helpful to the shy and frightened. I was really scared to write my first post and now I am so grateful (to myself) that I did.

Be well, everyone. Thanks again, Cynthia.

My inner strength comes from me. I have learned that through intensive psychotherapy for the past 9 years. This has been for a host of emotional problems I won't go into now, but which were caused by the abusive home I came from.

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Date: Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 13:31:12 (EDT)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: support for recent ex's
Message:
I am an 'old' ex but I remember when I left as one of the scariest and most lost periods of my life. I think that is was very much like getting a divorce, which I have also done. But frankly, in some ways worse, because you really feel like you are leaving your whole world. At least I did.

I myself made some life long impact bad decisions at this time in my life as well. There is a real danger of jumping onto another bad ship for recent ex's. I honestly believe, as best a person can guess what would have been, if I had found a support group or a therapist who understood cults, I might have spared myself a lot of pain later.

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Date: Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 13:53:59 (EDT)
From: Monmot
Email: None
To: Susan
Subject: Re: support for recent ex's
Message:
I second Susan's suggestion about seeking out a support group or a therapist, particularly right after leaving. I know I was bereft at leaving, was extremely poor (gee, I wonder why?), and had no clue as to what my next step was. I felt as if my umbilical cord to the universe had been cut and that I was lost in space. Fortunately, I found an intern psychotherapist, who only charged me a dollar a visit (until I could pay more), and more fortunately (for me), she had been in a cult herself. I saw her twice a week for three years, and I credit her with helping me unbend a twig that, at that point in my life, was ingrown and dying. Of course, the support system now is greater thanks to global technology/communication, but all the technology in the world doesn't provide the succor that one-on-one support can provide.
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Date: Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 13:29:59 (EDT)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: Re: Support for recent exes
Message:
Hi Katie,

I agree totally with what you say. I have had several instances where exes prefer to email me privately on topics which they feel are best discussed one to one. I would be happy for my email address to be available to anyone who prefers this method of communication.

regards

Richard

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Date: Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 15:58:34 (EDT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Richard
Subject: Hi Richard (ot)
Message:
Dear Richard,
I know I owe you an e-mail, but I just wanted to say that I'm glad to 'see' you here! Thanks also for offering to provide support.

Love,
Katie

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Date: Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 14:44:12 (EDT)
From: Grace
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: Re: Support for recent exes
Message:
Thanks for this post, Katie. I think that because it is politically incorrect for us (exes) to say anything positive about M or the whole trip, those who recently left and do have mixed feelings do not feel comfortable expressing them--and they need to be expressed. There were positive things or we wouldn't have been in so long. It wouldn't be natural to leave something like this and know you're completely right (at least right away). I think time passing strengthens the decision. Everyone, please let this be a place where new exes can really talk about how they feel. You got them to this point, now stay with them.
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Date: Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 15:55:12 (EDT)
From: Katie
Email: mishkat@gateway.net
To: Grace
Subject: Mixed Feelings
Message:
Dear Grace -
You were one of the people I was thinking of when I wrote that message. You've been really honest with me about your own feelings (both positive and negative), and I very much respect and admire you for that. Anyway, I really do agree with your last sentences:

Everyone, please let this be a place where new exes can really talk about how they feel. You got them to this point, now stay with them.

I have gotten so many e-mails from people who have become de-programmed as a result of the site and forum, and then feel lost and unhappy. I do think that non-judgemental support for these feelings - even if they ARE positive feelings about Maharaji or premies - should be a part of this forum. We've all been there, even though it may be hard to recall. There are people posting on here who are really hurting as a result of their decision to leave M - those feelings are legitimate, and I think people should be able to express them freely.

It's really difficult for me to remember my own mixed feelings when I left over 20 years ago. I do remember being afraid of becoming crazy (because of rotting vegetables). However, at the point I left, guilt and fear were the only things that were keeping me involved - I wasn't experiencing anything through meditation, service, and satsang. I did have some close friends in the premie community, but most of them were people I had known before I received K, so we stayed friends despite having different opinions about Maharaji. The hardest thing for me was re-entering the world without the Maharaji belief system. I felt really weird and different from 'normal' people. I didn't feel that I knew how to talk to anyone who wasn't a premie!

I was fortunate enough to be living with two other ex-premies who had left just before I did, and who were having the same kind of problems. They were a huge help to me - a mutual support system (thanks again, Hillary and Paul!). I had also just started attending classes at the community college, and some of the 'normal' people there were very friendly to me, which helped a lot. Going to college also made me part of a group with a purpose, which was something that was very important to me. I did not go to counseling, but I think that might have been very helpful to me at the time.

Take care -
Love,
Katie

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Date: Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 15:30:33 (EDT)
From: Ben Lurking
Email: None
To: Grace
Subject: Re: Support for recent exes
Message:
I left 18-19 years ago but when people ask my why I moved to Colorada to this day I sat I went there for work. It is very difficult in s business or social situation to say I went to follow a guru and it didn't work out, it is a subject where I view the failure as my fault for not making a correct choice in even ever following M. It's a subject that for the most part I ignore with the people I know and meet.
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Date: Sat, Oct 16, 1999 at 22:16:41 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Ben Lurking
Subject: Ben, can I share my experience with you?
Message:
Ben,

The only time I ever hid the fact of my involvement in this cult was when I wrote my law school application essay. I said that I spent those years travelling and doing a bit of this and that. I've regretted that move ever since. (I should add that I think that strategy hurt me, made my application weaker in fact.)

The way I see it -- the way I know we all see it having actually lived through this shit -- is that anyone can get sucked in. Just like anyone can 'get religion' in the right circumstances. This was just an extreme case of that, in my opinion.

So, yes, I've always told people the truth and let them think what they may. I don't think it's cost me at all and, in dull moments, has provided some cheap comic relief. I dunno, have you ever tried being a little looser with this closet skeleton? Taken it out and let it dance a bit? It's funny and people like funny. They already know you for who you are, that's not going to change. So what if you're a sixties casualty? Ya' know?

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Date: Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 15:51:59 (EDT)
From: Monmot
Email: None
To: Ben Lurking
Subject: Re: Support for recent exes
Message:
Ben:
I hear you on that one. I've been in a writing group for a while now, and last year the 'teacher' of the group asked me to write about my experiences with M/DLM etc. when we returned from summer hiatus. I somewhat demurred, saying it was an extremely complex/complicated subject, but she insisted that these stories must be told because they are 'the stories of our time, and are important.' I've been giving it a shot, but I must say it feels strange to air out some of those stories in front of a group of people who weren't premies. I feel like I'm talking/writing about a whole other person, which I am in a strange way. This week, as the group dispersed, one of my buds came up to me and said that she noticed that my attitude, when I write stories about the guru, is somewhat sarcastic as if I am ashamed of my stories. Like any unconscious behavior, I was surprised at her remark, but acknowledged to her that she was indeed correct. Your post reminded me of how closeted I have been when it comes to this part of my life. The irony is that everyone in my writing group wants to hear these stories and are fascinated by them, so perhaps our experiences with M/DLM are the 'stories of our time.'
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Date: Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 16:27:29 (EDT)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: Monmot
Subject: Stories of our time
Message:
Hello there Monmot! I am convinced that our stories are the stories of our time. There are many stories, many books, here, as the Forums I-IV and all of our Journeys attest. When I was in a writing group attempting to make sense of my guru years, my stories usually ended up as stand up comedy routines (except, of course, for the Christmas Story). You have my complete support and encouragement in this endeavor. I am looking forward to the galleys. What shall you call it? I know you probably don't want to give up the title. Maybe we can give you some ideas though....

Take care there, Monmot! Love, Marianne

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Date: Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 16:31:49 (EDT)
From: Monmot
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: Re: Stories of our time
Message:
Too bad 'Apocalypse Now' has been used.
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Date: Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 16:37:28 (EDT)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: Monmot
Subject: LOL! LOL! [nt]
Message:
nt
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Date: Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 11:47:14 (EDT)
From: corvuscorvae
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Light years away
Message:
-
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Date: Sat, Oct 16, 1999 at 08:16:25 (EDT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: corvuscorvae
Subject: Hi Jamie.
Message:
Hi Jamie,

Were you in DLM in England in the 70s? You sound like you may have been. Did you live in an ashram anywhere?

Anth the Nosey (Anth Ginn)

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Date: Sat, Oct 16, 1999 at 09:06:52 (EDT)
From: corvuscorvae
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Re: Hi Jamie.
Message:
--
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Date: Mon, Oct 18, 1999 at 12:41:27 (EDT)
From: AJW
Email: anthginn@yahoo.com
To: corvuscorvae
Subject: Hi again Jamie.
Message:
Hi,

That house was known as 'Millenium Construction' wasn't it. Was Chris, Chris Cowling? I think John Chamberlin lived there too, and maybe his brother Pete. Nick Seymour Jones may have lived there as well.

We lived round the corner in the Education Ashram.

So you must have been round in the Palace of Peace days too Jamie?

Saphlanand, real name Brian Kitt, it still around. An ex told me he's a an ex-premie too nowadays. I think he's living around Plymouth somewhere, where he hailed from originally.

I met him a few times and liked him.

When did you get out Jamie?

Adios

Anth the Reminiscing

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Date: Mon, Oct 18, 1999 at 01:36:24 (EDT)
From: Fred
Email: None
To: corvuscorvae
Subject: Re: Hi Jamie.
Message:
Hi Jamie,

I think I might know you. Very similar background and all.

I heard that Saff was living in London with his wife who takes care of him.

Do you still live in N. America or are you back in the U.K. now?

Fred

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Date: Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 11:12:29 (EDT)
From: Cynthia G.
Email: cynthia@madriver.com
To: All
Subject: New Forum Person - Misc. Info.
Message:
I received a notice from the Providence RI premies that a huge satellite program's taking place this weekend. From what I gather, m is changing things again. This is one thing that I have always had difficulty with in the way he works. My belief is that money is low, and I have heard he wants to travel extensively and has introduced a new concept (right) of forming training teams to facilitate mini-programs. To me this is nothing more than another attempt at getting some cash flow going.

I have been reading the Forum, as well as the Journeys and it seems difficult to follow the threads, what people are talking about on the Forum. I have only been online for a few days and am a cyberspace novice so I hope everyone gets this message. I plan to write a journey but need some time to get my thoughts together so that my story is clear--it's only been a few days since I broke free of that all-consuming guilt.

I don't see any reasonfor me to be anonymous on this forum. I respect anyone's privacy. Some ex-prems may have legitimate concerns about retaliation, which could be possible.

To put it in a nutshell, I received k in 1976 in New Haven, (member of Hartford community). I lived in the hartford ashram for a couple of months before being called to DECA. I was not in m's inner circle, but had daily contact with him both by phone and in person. So one could say I was in one of the circles because I reported directly to Jim Hession (who I wonder about). If anyone has any info re: hession I'm curious what became of him--he was always very kind to me even though I know that m was verbally abusive to him and humiliated him in public (in front of premies). It was common knowledge then and now that m has quite a temper. But that was okay! The lord can act any way he wants, right? Wrong.

I was one of the first to 'burnout' at the 707 project and was promptly shipped out. That has always been the program with M. Use 'em up, them ship 'em out and get some fresh energy in.

One observation about this site: I believe it is anyone's right to be angry at m for many reasons. Luckily, I left the ashram before the official breakup and was able to survive quite well, even though the Gainesville ashram tried to charge me for dental work I had while in the ashram and they actually cashed my last paycheck (illegally) because my Gainesville employer sent my last paycheck to the ashram instead of my new Hartford adress. I told them to go to hell on the dental bill and that they had committed a crime by cashing my personal paycheck!!!. (Not to mention tampering with my personal mail)

I didn't practice k for 17 years, but I was curious and when I went back it was like a ghost town. I live in Vermont now and I thought the lack of people was due to the rural nature of Vermont, long distances to travel, etc., but found that even the Hartford community is a ghost town. The censorship has always been there and now it is considerable.

I tried to come back to m and saw him in Montreal. It was such a turn off, but I still tried to rationalize that it was the premies, not m. It's quite incredible how deeply imbedded the brainwashing can become. The program was total chaos--overbooked, etc. When I went to the desk to get my seat assignment, a couple was arguing about their seating and a premie found my name and gave me a seat. But she also said quite harshly: 'MAKE SURE YOU RETURN AFTER THE PROGRAM TO PAY!!! Needless to say I didn't.

The last satelite feed I saw was the participation event in Manchester UK. M was not in a very good mood at all. He actually swore!!! He said (paraphrased) 'I don't get a bit of damned gratitude, everyone's always bitching and complaining about this person or that person. Stop complaining and judging.' I left in complete shock and that's when my foundation really crumbled. He created another taboo--complaining and judging. He said that of all the 'hits' on his e-mail about 95% are positive and the rest are complaints. My take on it was that he doesn't want to hear any negative about anything and everything must go his way (as it always has to). It's not surprising that this particular video was not placed for sale in the visions catalogue.

Anyway, I might have answers to questions some exes might have about the DECA era. I was part of the security team in that I had all his phone numbers at the time and knew just about everywhere he was, and was resonsible for maintaining his secret identity as the 'client.'

As a survivor of severe childhood abuse I am sickened by the reports of sexual abuse by Mahatmas against children (or anyone). I have become quite an expert on this subject and believe anyone who is reporting this. That m knew about it and let it go on sickens me. It just tells me that he has no integrity. But remember, he's narcissistic (sp?). Analyzing him from afar, he could well have become a serial anything, but was in a situation at a young age that kept him narcissistic to date. I'm notmaking excuses for him, believe me. A sociopath is a sociopath is a sociopath. I grew up with one. There's no changing them. Exposure is possible, but at this point in time I believe he is trying to get the US premies back.

My Prediction: Darshan lines will be back if he starts having mini-programs around the country. He needs the money and premies are dying for personal darshan--it's all they talk about.

Regarding the 'old' music now being recorded as instrumentals--my take on this is that it is creating a nostalgia in the older premies who are still hanging on. In the short time I was 'back' I observed that ' the old days' are all the old premies talk about. So he's using nostalgia to trick people into staying with him...stringing them along--it works if one is a Master of Manipulation!!

Bye for now, I hope I get some response. I need to talk this out with folks and I don't give a rats ass what m or any other premies think of me. I'm free........! Hurray!

Thanks for reading this.......Cynthia

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Date: Sat, Oct 16, 1999 at 07:42:27 (EDT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Cynthia G.
Subject: Welcome to the Wild Frontier
Message:
Hi Cynthia,

It's always great when someone new scrambles ashore, rubs their eyes, turns back to look at the rusting hulk, resting on the seabed, still tied to the dock, and says, 'Shit. I thought that boat was going to carry me across the Ocean of Maya, through shark infested waters to Paradise. Dooooooh!'

I look forward to reading your 'Journey'.

I agree with you about the Darshan lines. I think they're going to come back to help the cash crisis.

Apparently the charitable status of the cult in the USA and the UK is also coming under scrutiny, which will only further the financial problems.

It's a wierd organisation. Everyone in it is scared to make a decision that's not ratified by an indescisive, cossetted, totally out of touch bloke who thinks he's God.

It's doomed to failure.

Welcome to the Wild Frontier.

Anth the Ex

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Date: Sat, Oct 16, 1999 at 07:00:34 (EDT)
From: Enough
Email: None
To: Cynthia G.
Subject: Re: - Satellite Program
Message:
Hi Cynthia,

During one of the many let's get M a new airplane fundraisers, the rumor was put out that M wanted to be able to visit the local cummunities on a spontaneous basis. That's all I needed to hear. Cut a check for HIM that night.

It will be interesting to find out results of satellite feed. I think it will also be tied into the Amaroo 2000 event. He's gonna jack up the premies one more time and allow them to deduce that this is a 'happening' time. Just my theory of course, HE may be greater than God!!!

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Date: Sat, Oct 16, 1999 at 14:46:39 (EDT)
From: Ben Lurking
Email: None
To: Enough
Subject: Re: - Satellite Program
Message:
m is greater than god in the extraction of money (con man) from his dupes (premies). he is only greater than god in this instance cause god would never do this. If only we could prove he married marlyn to get citizenship then maybe we could get him deported.
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Date: Sat, Oct 16, 1999 at 15:09:25 (EDT)
From: Enough
Email: None
To: Ben Lurking
Subject: Re: - Satellite Program
Message:
I've found myself wondering this past week if a law suit based on fraud could get to trial. Depositions would certainly be interesting in their own right. Just imagine the squirming that would be caused. A jury trial would be great except for keeping the jury awake for the Lord's Satsangs.

Probably the best way to get shithead though would be, like Al Capone, via the IRS and unreported Darshan cash.

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Date: Sat, Oct 16, 1999 at 16:18:12 (EDT)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: Enough
Subject: Karma Chameleon
Message:
I agree with every part of the post you made, except that unreported darshan income, if it was in fact unreported (for any of M's attys reading this), could potentially be the tip of the iceberg.

Marianne

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Date: Sat, Oct 16, 1999 at 12:53:08 (EDT)
From: Cynthia G.
Email: cynthia@madriver.com
To: Enough
Subject: Re: - Satellite Program
Message:
Dear Enough,

Amaroo 2000 is really getting premies very excited becuse he had given darshan there. Of course, there's no guarantee he will have a darshan line, but from my recent contact with premies, Amaroo 2000 is like the real focus in terms of saving up their $ to go. Personal darshan is a big thing missing in the life of old premies and the new premies want some too!!!

I never realized how big of a CASH COW HE IS!!! An old myth is that the big m actually physically grows in size after darshan lines....all that love just makes him blow up (real good). The only thing that blows up is his coffers.

That's all for now,

Be well, Cynthia G.

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Date: Sat, Oct 16, 1999 at 00:03:12 (EDT)
From: bill burke
Email: None
To: Cynthia G.
Subject: Re: New Forum Person - Misc. Info.
Message:
It was really good to read your post.
It would be useful to review those days with you.
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Date: Sat, Oct 16, 1999 at 10:58:32 (EDT)
From: Cynthia G.
Email: None
To: bill burke
Subject: Re: New Forum Person - Misc. Info.
Message:
Dear Bill,

I should have clarified that I used to go by the name Cindy. We knew eachother pretty well in the old days. Remember the old 'Premie Band?'

Email me directly if you wish. Thanks for responding!! hope you're well.

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Date: Tues, Oct 19, 1999 at 00:34:00 (EDT)
From: bb
Email: None
To: Cynthia G.
Subject: Re: New Forum Person - Misc. Info.
Message:
Hi Cindy!
I knew it was you.
I'll post to you on about wednesday somewhere up top
here on the forum. I think Gary Meade just stopped in!
You must remember him, all the ladies were smitten.
By the way, you are a great singer.
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Date: Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 15:21:11 (EDT)
From: JW
Email: None
To: Cynthia G.
Subject: Hi Cynthia
Message:
I received knowledge in 1973 and was at DECA in 1979 in the legal department, of all places. They were so desperate for people with any skills that I was placed in the legal department because I had worked as a paralegal in Chicago for a few years while I lived in the ashram.

I left the ashram, and being a premie, in 1983 a few months before M closed the ashrams down. In the legal department at DECA, I was always pointing out all the illegalities of the place (no permits, no workers comp., etc., etc.,) and I guess I didn't have proper understanding and was fired. After that they made me the community coordinator in Miami, which is a whole other story.

Anyhow, regarding the way Maharaji could abuse and humiliate people, including Jim Hession, I wonder if you saw this particular situation which is BURNED into my memory and I've mentioned before on the forum.

While I was still at DECA, we were getting close to Hans Jayanti that was going to be up in Kissimmee, and Maharaji came to DECA to go over the plans for the stage and other stuff I can't exactly recall. Anyhow, he was REALLY in negative place and HATED absolutely everything that was presented by the premies. I was just a peon in the background, but I recall it scared the shit out of me. He kept belittling Jim Hession and others and being really heavy and negative saying he didn't like the plans, but he wouldn't say WHAT he wanted!!!! Everything they proposed he hated, and yet he refused to say how he wanted it different. It was really frightening if you believed, like I did, that he was the living god. I distinctly remember someone, I think it was Hession, just giving up, and telling M that they just wanted to please and serve him. This didn't seem to placate the perfect master. He was absolutely abusive to people who were completely vulnerative and submissive to him and trying to serve him. He was obviously taking out his apparently severe emotional disorders on this devotees as victims.

I remember being really shaken by this. I recall putting into the back of my brain that I would try to avoid personal contact with Maharaji. I figured I was just too confused and undevoted to understand the LOVE that he was really giving these premies and I was too unworthy to be around him. Actually, when I was around him, I didn't like him very much, and that was confronting, so I avoided that contact when I could.

I had the same feeling when I later talked with some premies who had gone through the Initiator Training Program in Malibu. Maharaji was abusive to them, too, inflicitng all kinds of psychological torture on people like Candy McNary and others. In retrospect, it was clear they were suffering from post-traumatic stress disorder. Candy told me that a couple of times during the ITP in Malibu she wanted to run down to the ocean and drown herself. Of course, she attributed this to her 'mind,' not the fact that she was being tortured by her, very sick, 'master.'

I had an initiator application on file at the time and I was secretly afraid I might be selected! Anyhow, I got the same sick feeling when talking to these people that I had that day at DECA.

I guess the major lesson is that no human being should ever give another human being, especially one as screwed up as Maharaji, that much power over their hearts and minds.

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Date: Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 13:23:24 (EDT)
From: Richard
Email: rich2@globalnet.co uk
To: Cynthia G.
Subject: Re: New Forum Person - Misc. Info.
Message:
Hi Cynthia,

it's good to hear from you and I am sure you will get a lot of response. Your take on things sounds just about right to me. Strangely enough I, too, was asked to pay a dental bill after leaving the ashram and had similar problems with wage tampering.

Hope to talk again soon,

regards

Richard

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Date: Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 12:46:41 (EDT)
From: Katie
Email: mishkat@gateway.net
To: Cynthia G.
Subject: Welcome, Cynthia!
Message:
Hi Cynthia -
Your post was great - very interesting and thoughtful with lots worth considering. I haven't been involved with M since 1977 (I received K in 1972), but have been involved with the forum for over two years, so I've 'caught up' on what went on during the last 20 years. There have been a lot of posts about DECA on the forum - most of them are archived in Forum II, Forum II, and Forum I (on the ex-premie.org site). You may know some of the people who post here from DECA.

Anyway, great to hear from you and welcome to the forum. Hope to read your journey's entry soon.

Take care of yourself -
Katie

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Date: Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 12:39:52 (EDT)
From: Marianne
Email: MarianneDB@aol.com
To: Cynthia G.
Subject: Re: New Forum Person - Misc. Info.
Message:
Cynthia: Great post & welcome to the forum! Your post made me very happy, especially about the Manchester satellite feed. I don't know if you were reading the forum back then -- it sounds like you've just begun reading -- but we were having a raucous discussion about a bunch of ex's going to Manchester and attending the event. We discussed printing up business cards that just said www.ex-premie.org and leaving them around the event site. We also discussed having someone stand in a sandwich board right near the event hall with the website address on it. From your description of M's anger, it seems he was aware of our supposed plans. We never did any of it, but just the idea that the honchos and M got all bent out of shape about our anti-guru guerilla warfare makes me laugh. His demand that no one complain is just a 90's version of 'Never leave room for doubt in your mind' or 'You're in your mind, sister', or as grrlzone so aptly says, 'They're brainwashed'. Yes, words are mighty scary, aren't they? And critical thought is even more frightening! Halloween is coming! Think I'll wear a Rotwat mask!

So what's the scoop with this training and mini program idea? Do you mean that M is going to go around the country doing mini programs? Of course, that's a money making venture. A few weeks ago, we started urging premies and ex's to go to any program at which M appears (or any DLM/EV program) and stand up and ask, 'What about Mahatma Jagdeo?' If M is planning to do these sorts of programs, someone is going to ask about Jagdeo, you can bet on it!

Tell us about your DECA experience. How did you get burned out? What was your experience with M?

We're very happy to see you here, Cynthia, and I look forward to reading your Journey.

Marianne

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Date: Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 12:37:19 (EDT)
From: Lee
Email: None
To: Cynthia G.
Subject: Re: New Forum Person - Misc. Info.
Message:
Hi Cynthia

Congratulations! It's your time to get out. Your views are really interesting on how you see maharaji trying to save his sinking ship. Like platform shoes coming back into fashion, he'll be bringing out his crown and costume soon.

I got knowledge in 1980/81. I don't really know what DECA was. I'd be interested to hear more.

Although you sound very strong for someone who's just left the cult, it can get very rocky sometimes (it did for me) so just hold on tight. And the Forum really helps too.

Bye for now

Lee

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Date: Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 12:28:30 (EDT)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: Cynthia G.
Subject: Welcome Cynthia!
Message:
Your post is fascinating. I think you are right on with the narcissist/sociopath view of M. Whenever I have had the chance to ask people who were around him how they view his personality that is what they say. Self centered without shame about it, views other people as tools to get what he wants. Simply cannot concieve of the idea that it matters if he does something to hurt other people.

I agree too about the nostalgia. I still, even though I despise the trip and its leader, have a little of that. I am sure he could exploit easily those feelings among 70's hanger oners.

So he might have decided, haha , I am God again, huh? Being God has always been a cash cow for him.

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Date: Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 14:00:23 (EDT)
From: Enough
Email: None
To: Susan
Subject: Re: Welcome Cynthia!
Message:
Yeah, now that you mention it, there might be more bucks to make if you say you are God or Greater and then subtly re

nigh on it--Then you say (imply)you are again-turn 'em on

This week I find it easier to think of him as a crook not a looney!

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Date: Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 15:54:47 (EDT)
From: Lee
Email: None
To: Enough
Subject: Re: Good one!
Message:
Hi there Enough

This week I find it easier to think of him as a crook not a looney!

I really laughed at that. It's hard keeping up with it all - when you hear all these things about maharaji - you view him in a different light every week/ day/ hour even! He's a God of many disguises!

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Date: Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 12:19:17 (EDT)
From: Enough
Email: None
To: Cynthia G.
Subject: Re: New Forum Person - Misc. Info.
Message:
Thanks Cynthia--I look forward to you future posts.
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Date: Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 11:30:54 (EDT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Cynthia G.
Subject: Re: New Forum Person - Misc. Info.
Message:
A warm welcome to you Cynthia, and it's great you're free!

That was an excellent post, by the way, and DECA is something I am personally interested in, as it seems to be in some ways the most bizarre period of the cult's history, in my opinion.

I agree with your assessment of Rawrat as a sociopath, and as you saw him close up and personal, it confirms my belief.

I look forward to your future posts.

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Date: Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 11:26:07 (EDT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: Cynthia G.
Subject: Re: New Forum Person - Misc. Info.
Message:
Dear Cynthia,
I have tears in my eyes from reading your post. I am glad for you that you are out and basically feeling good about it. Interesting take on the old music instumentals, sounds logical.
I don't feel comfortable giving out a bunch of details on Jim Hession but he is my oldest daughter's paternal uncle. He and his family are out and have been and he has a successful business.
Welcome, hope it helps you to be here.
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 10:27:40 (EDT)
From: Goseemee
Email: sdg1ken@linkline.com
To: All
Subject: 'Holy Company'
Message:
Anyone aware of a man named,'Michelle' who broke away from DLM in the eighties and started a similar group(in almost everyway)called until at least 1990,'Holy Company' in west L.A.?
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Date: Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 03:47:44 (EDT)
From: Enough
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Loans to DLM/EV
Message:
Back in the late 80's-early 90's when fatty fatty 2 by 2 wanted an airplane yet another plea for cash went out to the communities. The Bag Man cometh. Urine Weiss let us all know of our great opportunity to fork it up. The desperation for $$ was so great that not only did they want donations but were willing to take loans from premies and pay them back w/interest.

My question is: Does anyone know someone who actually loaned money to DLM/EV and if so were these loans repaid?

I highly recommend listening to Chicago Blues on Net Radio.Com while on this forum.

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Date: Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 12:49:19 (EDT)
From: Cynthia G.
Email: cynthia@madriver.com
To: Enough
Subject: Re: Loans to DLM/EV
Message:
Dear Enough,
I don't have any personal knowledge (no pun intended) of loans being made to DLM/EV, yet I have no doubt that it happened then and probably happens now. However, I do remember being solicited during that time by a Vermont premie who cold-called me (I hadn't been practicing for years) asking for money because it was so important for m to buy a new jet.

Needless to say, I was extremely annoyed that I was being asked for a minimum of $100 and wondered what the hell happened to the 707 I worked so hard on that I physically and emotionally collapsed. I felt sorry for the premie calling me because she was trying to paint such a graceful picture of HIS new request and I had no intention of sending any $. My name must have been on a list somewhere, who knows?

I can't keep track of how many aircrafts he now has. Currently, he pilots a Gulfstream which is a very expensive and technologically sophisticated aircraft. How many planes does one person need? The issue of money really triggers my ire because so much focus to aspirants and public is 'Knowledge is for Free.' He says that all the time. He actually said 'you can't buy this knowledge, Ha Ha!' Well ha ha back to him because he won't see another penny out of my pocket.

I think it is pretty pathetic that m has such an insatiable thirst for wealth when his so-called message is about having an inner thirst for inner fulfillment. he should take his own advice.

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Date: Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 08:17:33 (EDT)
From: Jethro
Email: None
To: Enough
Subject: Re: Loans to DLM/EV
Message:
I remember being visited by Robby Willocks who showed me and my former wife a 'special video' of m at home.
We weren't very well off so we sold our video recorder and gave the money for the house (Reigate I think). There was no mention of getting any money back.
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Date: Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 05:33:38 (EDT)
From: Charlie
Email: None
To: Enough
Subject: Re: Loans to DLM/EV
Message:
Yes, there are cases where money was repaid to premies by DLM. Strict legal papers had been drawn up.

Hey, I remember being visited late one evening by a couple of ashram premies who were collecting from my neighbourhood for the airplane fund.

They collected cash in a supermarket plastic carrier bag.

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Date: Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 15:58:31 (EDT)
From: Enough
Email: None
To: Charlie/Jethro/Cynth
Subject: Re: Loans to DLM/EV
Message:
Thanks for all your replies. Interesting how there are so many collection techniques used. As I mentioned below, this week I am convinced HIS BLIMPINESS is a crook not a raving looney. I vacilate because neither is particularily easy to stomach.
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Date: Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 19:46:33 (EDT)
From: grrlzone
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Darsham:kissing feet etc
Message:
That I actually kissed the feet of that rotund rodent fills me with a deep disgust. At the time, though, I thought I was touching God. I think I did this about seven times. Everytime my lips would peck or slobber over His Lotus Feet I thought I was washing away all my karma. That all the nasty things I'd done in this lifetime and the last ones ('how many lifetimes old are we, none we can remember'- B.Aqu) would somehow be absorbed by his socks and dissipate. I was saved. I was told to try and picture His Lotus feet inside my head when I meditated. Such subjugation! Once he smiled at me, or at least in my general direction (maybe he had wind) and I almost fainted and babbled hysterically to my mother about it afterwards. That was after she'd really fainted and been taken to a 'recovery' room. Such hysteria!
I remember long suffering premies lining up in Malaga, Rome and Florida, wearing their best clothes, slowly walking toward the blue tunnel, hyperventilating, the hysteria growing, the anticipation of seeing God creating a peculiar atmosphere. And we had to pass over money at the same time! All my pocket money.I want my pocket money back Hamster!
But I really thought he was God. A part of me would coldly note that he was indeed fat and sweaty and looked grumpy but then that was just Mr Mind doing his naughty thing. The Holy Breath thing was strange too. You had to cup your right hand behind your ear and wait for him to breath in your general direction and sort of waft it over with his chubby paw. And you got told off if you put your hand behind the wrong ear. Would this confuse the Brilliant One? In fact the security was really rude and shoved people along like the sheep we were.
I can still remember the colour of his socks, dark blue, wool, fat feet crossed on a cream cushion. Did he even know I existed?
May you fart yourself to death Lard of the Universe in the manner of the woman in 'Like Water for Chocolate'.
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Date: Sat, Oct 16, 1999 at 08:10:27 (EDT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: grrlzone
Subject: Darsham and Dosh
Message:
Hi grrlzone,

I hope all is well with you across the sea.

One of the important rituals of the Darshan Line is passing the 'Holy Envelope Brigade'. To make sure that nobody is missed, about 20 or so 'instructors' are loaded up with empty, self-seal, envelopes and posted at strategic positions, before the 'Darshan Tunnel'.

Each devotee is handed one of the envelopes, for the 'offering'. In the early 70s, people used to bring all sorts of things, but it gradually became known that the 'most practical' offering was hard cash.

Imagine how much a darshan line at a big programme used to rake in. 5,000 premies, a very modest estimate at £10 sterling each. That's fifty grand for sitting on your arse for a few hours while well scrubbed disciples file by and kiss your feet.

I wouldn't mind a job like that once or twice a year. I imagine the income isn't taxed either.

Anth the Neveragain.

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Date: Sat, Oct 16, 1999 at 07:56:43 (EDT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Deputy Dog
Subject: Manners
Message:
Dog,

Haven't you got any manners? Didn't your mum tell you it's rude to ask strangers details of their sexual life, particularly in public.

I hope you're not some kind of wierdo, culty, sexual pervert. There's a few of them around in the cult, as you may have noticed.

Calm down, become centred, focus on 'that place' Deputy Dog. Stop splashing in the sewer of hate that is Forum Four. Go back to your Master, before you become tainted and start thinking for yourself again.

Anth the Heretic.

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Date: Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 23:55:33 (EDT)
From: Monmot
Email: None
To: Deputy Dog
Subject: Mr. Sensitive
Message:
I can see that all those years of meditation have worked wonders for you.
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Date: Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 00:02:28 (EDT)
From: Runima
Email: None
To: grrlzone
Subject: Re: Darsham:kissing ass:::))
Message:
May you fart yourself to death Lard of the Universe in the manner of the woman in 'Like Water for Chocolate'.

Yes, yes, yes I agree with you!!
BUT,

May that beautiful feeling, that which was ...that which surely must be now, eveything beautiful that MAHARAJI
was for us back then and surely must be for us now...somehow, somewhere...
live on within our hearts!

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Date: Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 00:17:05 (EDT)
From: Runima
Email: None
To: Runima
Subject: Re: Darsham:kissing ass:::))
Message:
I mean, that's how IT works, right?;)
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Date: Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 22:03:19 (EDT)
From: Runamok
Email: None
To: grrlzone
Subject: Re: Darsham:kissing feet etc
Message:
grrlzone,
are you the same person who posted as abi about a 'mahatma' raping her?

On a lighter note, is the first syllable pronounced girl or grill?

PS I think i kissed his ugly feet at least a dozen times. Uck!

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Date: Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 01:30:10 (EDT)
From: Grrlzone is Abi OK
Email: None
To: Runamok
Subject: Re: Darsham:kissing feet etc
Message:
Yes, alright my real name is Abi. But I like posting under Grrlzone. I hope this doesn't upset anyone... I just don't really want to engage a great deal with the Jagdeo thing on an emotional level right now. It really freaks me out. Can that be respected?
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Date: Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 12:29:23 (EDT)
From: Runamok
Email: None
To: Grrlzone is Abi OK
Subject: Re: Darsham:kissing feet etc
Message:
I really appreciate you posting that story and respect whatever kind of limits you request. It takes a lot of guts to post about those kind of experiences and it was hard not to feel a lot of pain just reading the couple hundred words that you wrote.

We were all, at least to some extent, abused by Rawatt and his lackies, but experiences like yours are so truly abhorrent and inhuman. I'm sorry you had to experience things like that as a child (and I'm sorry I ever showed Rawatt any support for his fraudulent mission).

Glad you decided to keep posting, grrlzone.

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Date: Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 12:49:47 (EDT)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: Grrlzone
Subject: Your true identity
Message:
Abi: I am very glad that you have given out your true identity. From now on, you can be grrlzone. I think that it helps the ex's to understand how and why you have such a thorough and well developed dislike for Rotwat and all the surrounding trappings of the cult. You've got a biting wit. Your posts are both tragic and funny. It usually takes people a while to hit their stride in the forum, and you arrived full formed. You blew me away with your analysis and understanding. Now that your identity is known, I can understand the depth of the emotional content in your posts. I can also understand the fury you feel. I feel it too, perhaps not so intensely, but I share the fury you feel for what was done to you by Jagdeo and by implication, the cult and Rotwat.

You've brought a virtual tornado onto the site. I heartily welcome it. Thank you so much for being here, grrlzone.

Much love, Marianne

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Date: Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 23:14:44 (EDT)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: Deputy Dog
Subject: Totally wrong, DD
Message:
DD: You are totally incorrect. I know grrlzone to be Abi. Others can vouch for her too. Did you read Abi's Story as posted by Anth? How can you treat the repeated sexual abuse of a child by a mahatma in such a cavalier manner? I'm surprised at you. Do you doubt that Abi was abused by Jagdeo?

Marianne

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Date: Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 13:22:30 (EDT)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: Grrlzone power!
Message:
You are great Grrlzone! Sometimes I feel like the 'Jagdeo one' here. We were also premies and are working through the same issues about being premies that everyone else is. You have so powerfully stated, first round here, that you are NO ONE's victim any longer!

You are a STRONG woman!

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Date: Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 23:29:41 (EDT)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: Deputy Dog
Subject: You are disgusting deputy dog
Message:
And frankly, I have had enough bad experiences with people who have been 'deputized' by your Guru to last a lifetime.

Abi is Girlzone. Abi is real. I have dialed her overseas long distance # and spoken to her. I am real as well. Lots of people knew me in Miami. Lots of people in England knew Abi. Anth used to teach the Guru's kids. We are NOT a bunch of ficticious characters playing a game. If you have the means do a real investigation. You will find out this is not just an internet game.

Jagdeo had an MO. Abi, a world away, without hearing my story or my friends story, described exactly the same ways the creep tries to seduce his victims. You wish I wasn't real, or that she wasn't real, but we are.
The risk I took, and Abi took, by posting about what happened, is that we would be further attacked by idiotic premies like yourself who have no idea how real what happened to us was . Of course you do not want to believe it. What does it say about the crap your life revolves around.

We told our stories in the hopes that however belatedly we might protect one more child from being attacked, and that maybe, just maybe, some real justice may come of this. Sorry that this medium doesn't appeal to you. It is all we have. Without it, we never would have found eachother. And very few premies would be in a position to protect their kids and your Guru would never have to answer for how he swept it under the rug.

Jim, please do your best to send Deputy Dog to ELK where her will have more understanding and gratitude.

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Date: Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 23:39:48 (EDT)
From: Deputy Dog
Email: None
To: Susan
Subject: Susan I apologize. (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 23:51:15 (EDT)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: Deputy Dog
Subject: APOLOGIZE ASSHOLE!
Message:
DD: Profanity is not my style on the Forum. But, your posts require that you apologize to Susan and grrlzone. DD, you seem sort of ok and I regret having to play the heavy here, but you are way out of line. APOLOGIZE to both of them. NOW!

Marianne

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Date: Sat, Oct 16, 1999 at 00:27:56 (EDT)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: Deputy Dog
Subject: Not even your own conscience?
Message:
Dog: I am asking you to behave with common human decency, which I thought you had. I guessed wrong.

Marianne

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Date: Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 11:32:48 (EDT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: Grrlzone is Abi OK
Subject: Re: Darsham:kissing feet etc
Message:
Dear Grrlzone,
Hi dear, I thought you may be Abi. I know what you mean about not wanting to face all the emotion connected to the Jagdeo thing. I have similar feelings about some things in my past. The thing I have found it that as I became aware of it, remembered or let myself remember. I would go just to the edge of it and back off and over the last 2 years I have come closer and closer to the honest emotions involved. I was talking about this type of thing on AG and whether or not you have to go through these bad things but for me I think I do. God I hadn't done it and it didn't go away on its own!
I am glad you have internet access now. Good luck.
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 14:41:33 (EDT)
From: Waqidi Falicoff
Email: None
To: Robyn
Subject: Re: Guru Trap
Message:
Are you saying that all gurus are frauds? Is there ever a chance that someone like me could find a real guru? In your opinion who among the so-called gurus of today really has a positive thing to offer? How about mystical powers; does M have any? What made you fall for his K? Did he exhbited any supernormal feats like levitation for example? Please reply.

Thank you very much.

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Date: Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 18:18:29 (EDT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: Waqidi Falicoff
Subject: Re: Guru Trap
Message:
Dear Waqidi,
I wasn't talking about guru's at all. I was talking about facing hard things in our pasts or lives that come up. I don't know much about guru's. I have emailed with one person who has a different guru now that he conciders a friend and maybe spiritual adviser, very different from M. I think that is great for him, it works for him. Personally I believe in the possibility of anything but don't BELIEVE in anything in particular for the most part. I think it was Sir Dave who coined the phrase, Robynism, in regard to my beliefs. I have had enough really amazing unexplainable experiences to know that there is more to life then what we see.
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 17:29:33 (EDT)
From: Charlie
Email: None
To: Waqidi Falicoff
Subject: Re: Guru Trap
Message:
Very quickly the answer is NO GURU, NO CRY.

Go watch Monty Python's Life of Brian.

Best... Charlie

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Date: Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 04:03:02 (EDT)
From: Lee
Email: None
To: Grrlzone is Abi OK
Subject: Re: Names
Message:
Dear Grrlzone

Hi there - nice to read your posts on the forum. You have an interesting viewpoint to share. Yes, I think that your wish to be Grrlzone can be respected. I've been using my initials as my name/alias - LdM - but have just started using my name - Lee - instead. Even that feels a little bit weird. Don't see why it should really, but it does. Human beings are weird aren't they?

Lee

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Date: Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 06:04:25 (EDT)
From: Charlie
Email: None
To: Lee
Subject: Re: Names
Message:
Hi Lee,

I started by using an alias because everyone else seemed to use one. Also at that time I couldn't be sure if there
was another Charlie who I might clash with. It turns out that there isn't one so I might as well be me.

This thing about security makes me wonder sometimes. Is anyone posting here likely to be attacked in some way. Has anybody felt threatened in any real way since posting on F4. I haven't received a single challenging email from any of my premie friends who know I'm posting on this forum. Sure, they reckon I'm mad but they don't want to get into a tussle about it.

Actually Blackdog's posts re how many people are actually posting on F4 have sort of got me wondering about site statistics. His idea is quite ridiculous. He speculates that this whole thing is just a handful of people writing under a plethora of aliases with forged IPs and browser info and most preposterously that it might be just one person and him (I think that was a joke).

Anyway, it would be interesting to know just how many people are hovering around this page.

Love Charlie. See you later.

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Date: Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 14:27:09 (EDT)
From: Enough
Email: None
To: Charlie
Subject: Re: Names
Message:
Hi Charlie,

Glad you mentioned the Blackdog post as I've been thinking about it also. Because of my particular sense of humor, I rather like the idea that it's just me and 2 or 3 other people posting. Of course that is assuming that I am me and the 2 or 3 other people are not me-if you get my drift!

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Date: Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 18:15:33 (EDT)
From: Larkin
Email: larkin@redcrow.demon.co.uk
To: All
Subject: Journey's end
Message:
Our yearning was born of Utopian vision
A dream of transcending our world-weary pain
To quench our long thirst in an infinite ocean
To bathe in a downpour of heavenly rain
No inner-growth pastime or limpid revision
Nor part-time diversion that lightens the day
But the toxic enchantment of boundless devotion
One Master, One Message, One Knowledge, One Way...

Our faith it was formed by a child sent to guide us
His words we were groomed and enticed to believe
Like lambs to the shepherd (or else to the slaughter)
What higher ambition was left to achieve?
His Grace was the spark of the fire inside us
We'd nothing to lose; there was nothing to pay
But respect - or a peck on the guru's hindquarters
One Master, One Message, One Knowledge, One Way...

Our Lord had descended - the Lord of creation
Lord of all applewhites, Lord of all joy
No Hubbard or Osho or Moonie pretender
Believe it - we've found us the real McCoy
To simply surrender and know your salvation
For realisation will follow one day
Meanwhile, let's keep him pavilioned in splendour
One Master, One Message, One Knowledge, One Way...

Our Master was born to a sacred succession
Unbroken through time over long centuries
T'was never quite told how the damn thing got going
It must have been when we came down from the trees
They'd ironed the kinks in this perfect procession
The rival contenders no longer at play
You can only have one guy bestowing the Knowing
One Master, One Message, One Knowledge, One Way...

Our friendships were forged in dysfunctional units
The ashrams, communities playing their part
We cooed and we cared, throwing spiritual poses
But as for each other - well who gave a fart?
We screamed 'Bhole Shri' as he danced in his tunic
We squandered our youths and expended our pay
A travelling army with tongues up our noses
One Master, One Message, One Knowledge, One Way...

Our fears they were formed on Day 1 of our journeys
Those niggling worms of discomfort and doubt
But denial (not the river) and faith in the giver
Were more than sufficient to keep them locked out
As rival Rawats had to call in attorneys
And carve up the kingdom, both craving the praise
As Prem turned to heavy abuse of his liver
Two Masters, One Message, One Knowledge, Two Ways...

Our doubts were compounded by old Bobby Mishler
And eyewitness tales of conspicuous greed
The indolent drunkenness, ladies of pleasure
(So that's what he meant about 'planting the seed...')
Was this the true heir of Lords Rama and Krishna -
Don't 'do as I do', merely 'do as I say'..?
Is this man the source of the ultimate treasure:
One Master, One Message, One Knowledge? - No way...

Our realisation took time in gestation
But realise we did - not a moment too soon.
And that was my story - I'm sorry to bore ye -
But listen - you might as well bark at the moon
As sign up with this cult and its sly operation
And that is as much as I wanted to say
And as for that fraud still engorged with his glory
- It's thank you for nothing, farewell and good day...

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Date: Sat, Oct 16, 1999 at 00:57:38 (EDT)
From: Nigel
Email: nigel@redcrow.demon.co.uk
To: Deputy Dog
Subject: What is 'Skeezix'? - and more important...
Message:
Marianne wants a word up above...
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Date: Mon, Oct 18, 1999 at 06:52:22 (EDT)
From: Nigel
Email: nigel@redcrow.demon.co.uk
To: Nigel
Subject: (the above post was to DD - now gone - not Larkin)
Message:
nt
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Date: Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 01:49:04 (EDT)
From: Mahatma Coatanandbag
Email: None
To: Larkin
Subject: Re: Journey's end
Message:
Dear premie Ji

That was so beautiful I am truly moved to tears. I would like to put it to music and make a most beautiful Bhajan, to sing at the feet of my Lord, the Most Beautiful and Bountiful Maharaji. You are most blessed to have such wonderful way with words. It is worthy of a place in the great and most exhalted devotional music in the Bhagavad Gita. You are a most wonderful inspired gopi, I would like to bathe your feet in rose water as I sing your most divine poem out loud in praise of my Lord, the most Beautiful and Bountiful Maharaji. I am overcome with emotion, I am choking on my chappati, your words are sweeter than the sweetest gulab jamon, my mouth is filled with the sweet nectar like kulfi and I am feeling verily stoned as I read again your mighty epic. The Koran pales in comparison, the Bible is a pile of donkey dung in comparison with your incredible voluptuous verse, your heavenly tome makes me tremble in my kurta where I stand, here before my altar picture of our most Beautiful and Bountiful Lord Maharaji. I shall light ten arti candles and swing the tray as I hum the bhajan I have composed to honor your life's work. We are not worthy to surf the same information superhighway as one so enlightened as you, I shall throw my keyboard into a pile of donkey dung in shame that I cannot make the words flow like lassi as you do. Please post a picture of your glorious self on the information superhighway so that I may print it and place it on my alter next to the picture of our Most Beautiful Lord Maharaji.

Jai Satchit Anand

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Date: Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 02:02:22 (EDT)
From: Johnny Morris
Email: None
To: Mahatma Coatanandbag
Subject: Re: Journey's end
Message:
nt
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Date: Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 19:41:26 (EDT)
From: JW
Email: None
To: Larkin
Subject: Re: Journey's end
Message:
Great poem, Nigel, but 'limpid revision????'
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Date: Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 18:22:11 (EDT)
From: grrlzone
Email: None
To: Larkin
Subject: Re: Journey's end
Message:
You really are a poet. Wow!
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Date: Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 18:44:38 (EDT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: grrlzone
Subject: Re: Journey's end
Message:
Dear Grrlzone,
Welcome! :) Yes, we are very proud of our Larkin. Quite the talent and a sweetheart to boot.
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 05:06:06 (EDT)
From: Larkin
Email: larkin@redcrow.demon.co.uk
To: All
Subject: Limpid revision - why not?
Message:
Thanks grrl / Robyn / JW / Marianne too... (Matahatma Coatanhandbag - I'll meet you behind the bike sheds - ok?)

Joe: what's wrong with 'limpid revision'? 'limpid' = 'transparent', thus 'limpid revision' describes the 'Knowledge Lite' dilution and downgrading of the trip - and I thought the word has echoes of 'limp' about it. Anyway, it fitted the scansion and rhymed, so it's staying :)

Cheers
L - The Pretend Poet

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Date: Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 10:26:36 (EDT)
From: JW
Email: None
To: Larkin
Subject: Re: Limpid revision - why not?
Message:
Yeah, Larkin, I got the transparent revisionism idea, I, like may others have been exposed to 'limpid' through those really bad romance stories:

'Her/his eyes were like limpid pools of light, or maybe 'delight' or something like that.

It was just the use of the word there that I thought funny.

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Date: Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 09:30:58 (EDT)
From: microvolt
Email: None
To: Larkin
Subject: to larkin
Message:
impressive! great poem.
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