Forum IV: The Ex-Premie Forum
Archive: 11
From: Thurs, Nov 11, 1999 To: Thurs, Nov 25, 1999 Page: 3 Of: 5


Nigel -:- Happy Birthday Jim! (a bit late!) -:- Tues, Nov 16, 1999 at 12:05:52 (EST)
__ Katie -:- Me too, Jim - REALLY Late -:- Fri, Nov 19, 1999 at 17:32:58 (EST)
__ Jim -:- Thanks, Nige, Ger, Joey -:- Thurs, Nov 18, 1999 at 00:43:09 (EST)
__ Deputy Dog -:- Jim a Scorpio? I never would have guessed. (nt) -:- Wed, Nov 17, 1999 at 23:17:40 (EST)
__ __ Behave yourself! -:- I'm warnin' ya doggie...don't poop on Jim's birthday thread! (nt) -:- Wed, Nov 17, 1999 at 23:37:34 (EST)
__ Joey -:- All the best Jim!...and many happy returns on the day!! (even belatedly:) nt -:- Tues, Nov 16, 1999 at 15:31:25 (EST)
__ Joey -:- All the best Jim!...and many happy returns on the day!! (even blatedly:) nt -:- Tues, Nov 16, 1999 at 15:30:57 (EST)
__ __ Gerry -:- Jim, where the heck are you??? -:- Tues, Nov 16, 1999 at 23:35:16 (EST)

Cynthia G. -:- CULTS CULTS CULTS..Insight Seminars -:- Tues, Nov 16, 1999 at 12:00:27 (EST)
__ Peter Howie -:- Re: CULTS CULTS CULTS..Insight Seminars -:- Wed, Nov 17, 1999 at 18:11:30 (EST)
__ Runamok -:- Re: CULTS CULTS CULTS..Insight Seminars -:- Tues, Nov 16, 1999 at 23:55:12 (EST)
__ gerry -:- Re: CULTS CULTS CULTS..Insight Seminars -:- Tues, Nov 16, 1999 at 21:56:12 (EST)
__ __ Cynthia G. -:- Re: CULTS CULTS CULTS..Insight Seminars -:- Wed, Nov 17, 1999 at 08:14:52 (EST)
__ Deputy Dog -:- Cynthia EST was fantastic. It's called the Forum now. (nt) -:- Tues, Nov 16, 1999 at 21:30:59 (EST)
__ __ Cynthia G. -:- EST, now FORUM...Is That Evolution or Revisionism?(nt) -:- Wed, Nov 17, 1999 at 09:26:31 (EST)
__ __ __ Deputy Dog -:- No Cynthia, it's a cosmic conspiracy (nt) -:- Wed, Nov 17, 1999 at 10:07:51 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Nick Danger, Third Eye -:- Don't You Mean Cosmic Surgery? (nt) -:- Wed, Nov 17, 1999 at 10:23:39 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Deputy Dog -:- Yes! (nt) -:- Wed, Nov 17, 1999 at 23:19:16 (EST)

Shp -:- Ex-Premie Survey -:- Tues, Nov 16, 1999 at 09:57:13 (EST)
__ Grace -:- Re: Ex-Premie Survey -:- Thurs, Nov 18, 1999 at 09:54:30 (EST)
__ Joy -:- Re: Ex-Premie Survey -:- Tues, Nov 16, 1999 at 13:20:42 (EST)
__ __ Shp -:- Re: Ex-Premie Survey -:- Tues, Nov 16, 1999 at 16:28:25 (EST)
__ Gregg -:- Re: Ex-Premie Survey -:- Tues, Nov 16, 1999 at 11:50:20 (EST)
__ Runamok -:- red tape for all -:- Tues, Nov 16, 1999 at 10:16:26 (EST)
__ __ Shp -:- Re: red tape for all -:- Tues, Nov 16, 1999 at 10:31:26 (EST)
__ __ __ Runamok -:- Blood red tape for all -:- Tues, Nov 16, 1999 at 18:35:23 (EST)
__ __ __ Roger eDrek -:- ***Best of Forum*** (Shp & Run) -:- Tues, Nov 16, 1999 at 14:47:49 (EST)
__ __ __ __ dishonest premie -:- I capitualte! shp figured me out. -:- Tues, Nov 16, 1999 at 17:24:32 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ bill -:- Re: I capitualte! shp figured me out. -:- Tues, Nov 16, 1999 at 17:30:04 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Shp -:- Reply to bill -:- Wed, Nov 17, 1999 at 07:18:53 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ bill -:- oh my god shp -:- Wed, Nov 17, 1999 at 09:59:53 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Shp -:- note to bill -:- Thurs, Nov 18, 1999 at 08:18:10 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Shp -:- Re: oh my god bill -:- Wed, Nov 17, 1999 at 12:04:01 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ bill -:- Re: oh my god bill -:- Wed, Nov 17, 1999 at 16:41:33 (EST)

Victoria -:- Forum V -:- Tues, Nov 16, 1999 at 06:53:26 (EST)
__ bill -:- Re: Forum V -:- Tues, Nov 16, 1999 at 17:33:08 (EST)

la-ex -:- blockhead's blunder at the res... -:- Mon, Nov 15, 1999 at 21:37:20 (EST)
__ Former Decette -:- Poor Sean -:- Thurs, Nov 18, 1999 at 13:10:18 (EST)
__ Joey -:- Re: blockhead's blunder at the res... -:- Tues, Nov 16, 1999 at 11:04:34 (EST)
__ Grace -:- Re: blockhead's blunder at the res... -:- Tues, Nov 16, 1999 at 09:04:20 (EST)
__ __ Jean-Michel -:- Froggies don't get it -:- Tues, Nov 16, 1999 at 09:25:35 (EST)
__ __ __ Hi JM, -:- Re: Froggies don't get it -:- Tues, Nov 16, 1999 at 17:34:39 (EST)
__ __ __ Nick Danger, Third Eye -:- Re: Froggies don't get it -:- Tues, Nov 16, 1999 at 09:47:02 (EST)
__ __ __ __ trivia buff -:- This froggie does:::)) -:- Tues, Nov 16, 1999 at 10:50:00 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Nick Danger, Third Eye -:- Thanks, Mr. Buff. I Had A Brain Freeze (nt) -:- Tues, Nov 16, 1999 at 19:16:20 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Informed source -:- Better to have a brain freeze.... -:- Tues, Nov 16, 1999 at 22:51:17 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Nick Danger, Third Eye -:- Re: Better to have a brain freeze.... -:- Wed, Nov 17, 1999 at 00:08:01 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Informed Source -:- Re: Better to have a brain freeze.... -:- Wed, Nov 17, 1999 at 11:44:59 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Jean-Michel -:- Re: Froggies don't get it -:- Tues, Nov 16, 1999 at 10:39:57 (EST)
__ bill -:- Re: blockhead's blunder at the res... -:- Mon, Nov 15, 1999 at 22:45:51 (EST)
__ __ DV -:- Re: blockhead's blunder at the res... -:- Mon, Nov 15, 1999 at 23:34:09 (EST)
__ __ __ Joey -:- Re: blockhead's blunder at the res... -:- Tues, Nov 16, 1999 at 11:18:11 (EST)
__ __ __ __ bb -:- Re: blockhead's blunder at the res... -:- Sun, Nov 21, 1999 at 00:53:07 (EST)
__ __ __ bb -:- Re: blockhead's blunder at the res... -:- Tues, Nov 16, 1999 at 01:04:26 (EST)
__ __ Roger eDrek -:- I won't spoil the punchline (nt) -:- Mon, Nov 15, 1999 at 22:55:05 (EST)

Roger eDrek -:- Could this be Catweasel? -:- Mon, Nov 15, 1999 at 03:36:16 (EST)
__ Mel Bourne -:- Message to Elmars..... -:- Mon, Nov 15, 1999 at 20:03:47 (EST)
__ __ gerry -:- Re: Message to dopey, er sneezy er sleepy er boring... -:- Mon, Nov 15, 1999 at 23:09:14 (EST)
__ Catweasel -:- This Could this be Paradise Catweasel? -:- Mon, Nov 15, 1999 at 06:58:50 (EST)
__ __ Roger eDrek -:- We know this about Catweasel -:- Mon, Nov 15, 1999 at 15:52:01 (EST)
__ __ bb -:- Thier relationship would have been NOT OK with the lord in the 70's and 80's -:- Mon, Nov 15, 1999 at 08:35:17 (EST)
__ __ __ Don Henley -:- Have you seen 'Back to the Future' -:- Mon, Nov 15, 1999 at 10:10:05 (EST)
__ __ __ __ bb -:- forward into the dream of your own -:- Mon, Nov 15, 1999 at 23:05:01 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Catweasel -:- Re: forward into the dream of your own -:- Tues, Nov 16, 1999 at 02:14:26 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ bill -:- SKY? -:- Tues, Nov 16, 1999 at 18:30:17 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Brian Gumble -:- Re: SKY? -:- Wed, Nov 17, 1999 at 04:30:11 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ bb -:- Re: SKY? -:- Wed, Nov 17, 1999 at 16:51:51 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Sir Dave -:- Re: SKY? -:- Tues, Nov 16, 1999 at 21:32:01 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Grace -:- Re: forward into the dream of your own -:- Tues, Nov 16, 1999 at 09:10:33 (EST)
__ __ __ Don Henley -:- Have you seen 'Back to the Future' -:- Mon, Nov 15, 1999 at 10:09:57 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Sir Dave -:- Stating the obvious is all Maharaji ever does -:- Mon, Nov 15, 1999 at 11:15:01 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Richard Branson -:- Re: Stating the obvious is all Maharaji ever does -:- Tues, Nov 16, 1999 at 02:21:45 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Joey -:- great advice!! -:- Tues, Nov 16, 1999 at 11:40:46 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Richard Branson -:- Re: great advice!! -:- Wed, Nov 17, 1999 at 04:35:56 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Laurence Olivier -:- Re: great acting!! -:- Wed, Nov 17, 1999 at 09:06:44 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ bb -:- Re: Stating the obvious is all Maharaji ever does -:- Mon, Nov 15, 1999 at 23:07:27 (EST)

Roger eDrek -:- An interesting find on the net -:- Mon, Nov 15, 1999 at 03:22:59 (EST)
__ Roger eDrek -:- A premie page (UK) Tim Williams, a real newager -:- Mon, Nov 15, 1999 at 03:54:31 (EST)
__ __ Anon -:- Re: A premie page (UK) Tim Williams, a real newager -:- Mon, Nov 15, 1999 at 16:26:14 (EST)
__ __ __ BILL -:- Re: A premie page (UK) Tim Williams, a real newager -:- Tues, Nov 16, 1999 at 00:56:15 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Anon -:- Re: A premie page (UK) Tim Williams, a real newager -:- Tues, Nov 16, 1999 at 04:41:55 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Bill -:- Re: A premie page (UK) Tim Williams, a real newager -:- Tues, Nov 16, 1999 at 17:55:54 (EST)
__ __ __ Roger eDrek -:- Oh, my god! I only report the news. I try not to make it. -:- Mon, Nov 15, 1999 at 17:26:50 (EST)
__ __ sinanju -:- Timi Willi -:- Mon, Nov 15, 1999 at 08:45:32 (EST)
__ __ __ Shp -:- Re: 'that stupid oneness...' -:- Mon, Nov 15, 1999 at 11:31:10 (EST)
__ __ __ __ sinanju -:- Re: 'that stupid oneness...' -:- Mon, Nov 15, 1999 at 23:16:26 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Deputy Dog -:- Hey shp! Why do we bother? (nt) -:- Mon, Nov 15, 1999 at 12:28:27 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Shp -:- Re: Hey shp! Why do we bother? (nt) -:- Mon, Nov 15, 1999 at 12:44:58 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Nand -:- we? -:- Tues, Nov 16, 1999 at 00:47:17 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Shp -:- Reply to Nand -:- Tues, Nov 16, 1999 at 07:19:40 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Ian -:- Your reply to Nand -:- Tues, Nov 16, 1999 at 08:57:50 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ nand -:- Ian -:- Tues, Nov 16, 1999 at 18:05:15 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Shp -:- Re: Your reply to Nand -:- Tues, Nov 16, 1999 at 09:37:04 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Shark -:- Wake up Butt Boy! -:- Mon, Nov 15, 1999 at 12:08:04 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Shp -:- Reply to Mr. Shark -:- Mon, Nov 15, 1999 at 12:27:21 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Shark -:- You're not really stupid, son -:- Mon, Nov 15, 1999 at 13:17:03 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Shp -:- Really, Dad? Thanks! -:- Mon, Nov 15, 1999 at 13:28:03 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Shark -:- Don't coagulate-Run -:- Mon, Nov 15, 1999 at 13:46:27 (EST)
__ __ Charlie -:- Re: A premie page (UK) Tim Williams, a real newager -:- Mon, Nov 15, 1999 at 05:03:58 (EST)
__ __ __ Roger eDrek -:- His site is a maze of links, sounds (nt) -:- Mon, Nov 15, 1999 at 14:33:30 (EST)
__ __ Roger eDrek -:- Another newager (US) with a radio show, Dr. Stanley Hobish -:- Mon, Nov 15, 1999 at 04:10:07 (EST)
__ __ __ sinanju -:- he is clearly the ultimate premie -:- Mon, Nov 15, 1999 at 09:47:23 (EST)
__ __ __ sinanju -:- Dr. god(behind the mask) -:- Mon, Nov 15, 1999 at 08:56:10 (EST)
__ __ __ Roger eDrek -:- Some newage online magazine -:- Mon, Nov 15, 1999 at 04:12:32 (EST)
__ __ __ __ NAND -:- letting go of control?? -:- Mon, Nov 15, 1999 at 09:05:21 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Shp -:- Re: letting go of control?? -:- Mon, Nov 15, 1999 at 12:23:07 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ sinanju -:- Re: letting go of control?? -:- Mon, Nov 15, 1999 at 23:28:37 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Shp -:- OK, sinanju, let's talk some more -:- Tues, Nov 16, 1999 at 07:27:28 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ sinanju -:- Re: OK, sinanju, let's talk some more -:- Tues, Nov 16, 1999 at 18:07:59 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Shp -:- Re: OK, sinanju, let's talk some more -:- Wed, Nov 17, 1999 at 07:23:41 (EST)

la -:- Two car Garaji -:- Sun, Nov 14, 1999 at 20:54:59 (EST)
__ bb -:- Re: Two car Garaji -:- Sun, Nov 14, 1999 at 23:28:31 (EST)
__ __ Peter Howie -:- Re: Other juicy rewrites - in the ashcan -:- Mon, Nov 15, 1999 at 02:48:25 (EST)
__ __ __ 7 mile Rocks -:- Re: Other juicy rewrites - in the ashcan -:- Mon, Nov 15, 1999 at 10:13:49 (EST)
__ __ __ NAND -:- Re: Other juicy rewrites - in the ashcan -:- Mon, Nov 15, 1999 at 09:10:45 (EST)


Date: Tues, Nov 16, 1999 at 12:05:52 (EST)
From: Nigel
Email: nigel@redcrow.demon.co.uk
To: All
Subject: Happy Birthday Jim! (a bit late!)
Message:
(Don't know who does the birthday list these days, or whether you have upset them, or maybe they have lost their diary.)

But anyway, hope you had a great one.

Jim: when the world finally comes to appreciate that the hamster was a rat all along, it will be in no small part due to your own tireless efforts. Thanks.

All best
Nige

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Date: Fri, Nov 19, 1999 at 17:32:58 (EST)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: Me too, Jim - REALLY Late
Message:
I hope it was a good one.
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Date: Thurs, Nov 18, 1999 at 00:43:09 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: Thanks, Nige, Ger, Joey
Message:
Yeah it was a lot of fun. Played a gig Friday night then had an all-night jam party back at my place. Brain-dead Saturday. Trial prep Sunday and I've been in the thick of it ever since. Really busy right now. Got some serious shit on the go and will be out of town starting Monday for most fo the next few weeks (coming back to Victoria on weekends at least, though).

You know, people -- well, some people -- criticize the court process as somehow counter-productive in the search for 'truth'. But I've got to tell you, the more involved I get, the more I expereience of it, the more I realize how coackamie that idea really is. Court is cool. Extremely imperfect and scary as hell (e.g. what if you're nnocent and no one believes you no matter what? Yikes!). But, given our need to ferret out truth from bullshit, the law's not so bad when it comes right down to it.

I'll give you an example. The other day I had to examine under oath one of my office mates who'd sworn an affidavit in support of an application I was making for some disclosure. At issue was whether he really knew 'x' as so stated. It was wonderful watching the process, it really was. There he was explaining exactly how he knew 'x' and there was the opposing lawyer testing his explanation. Not because he didn't believe him necessarily but just to shake it down a bit, make sure it was based on solid ground, so to speak. That process, brothers and sisters, is cool. I don't know how else to explain the respect it engenders. It's not at all a matter of 'trickery' or any such spectral chicanery. You know, so many people are so afraid of that kind of direct, confrontational discussion but, I'm telling you, in my expereince that's where you really find out what you know and why you know it. If it's real it ain't going to fall apart just because someone blows on it a bit. Too bad the Hamster and his burrow dwellers don't understand that. Oh well.

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Date: Wed, Nov 17, 1999 at 23:17:40 (EST)
From: Deputy Dog
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: Jim a Scorpio? I never would have guessed. (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Wed, Nov 17, 1999 at 23:37:34 (EST)
From: Behave yourself!
Email: None
To: Deputy Dog
Subject: I'm warnin' ya doggie...don't poop on Jim's birthday thread! (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Tues, Nov 16, 1999 at 15:31:25 (EST)
From: Joey
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: All the best Jim!...and many happy returns on the day!! (even belatedly:) nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Tues, Nov 16, 1999 at 15:30:57 (EST)
From: Joey
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: All the best Jim!...and many happy returns on the day!! (even blatedly:) nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Tues, Nov 16, 1999 at 23:35:16 (EST)
From: Gerry
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Jim, where the heck are you???
Message:
Happy Birthday you handsome devil !!!
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Date: Tues, Nov 16, 1999 at 12:00:27 (EST)
From: Cynthia G.
Email: cynthia@madriver.com
To: All
Subject: CULTS CULTS CULTS..Insight Seminars
Message:
Hi Everyone,

Reading about the Insight Seminars brought back an event that took place in my life about ten years ago. I wasn't practicing K. I was recently employed by a local architect to manage his office.

After about a month into my employment my boss Bill (and his wife) asked me to attend a seminar in Boston called 'Communication in Action.' Sure, I said, why not. I was a bit nervous going to Boston because I don't like driving into cities alone, but I was newly employed and didn't feel I could refuse my new boss.

I got to the seminar in Boston and it was absolutely the worst experience I've ever had. I wanted to leave the first night, but I was afraid (all my cult training kicked in). There was a group-speak involved which gave me the ultimate creeps. The trainer could not be challenged or disagreeed with (red flag) or else was taken through the most humiliating verbal abuse I've ever witnessed in such a forum. If the trainer could not get a person to come to his way of thinking, the person was kicked out of the seminar and reimbursed. One of the exercises consisted of each person taking turns getting in the middle of the group, with the person in the middle of a circle, and each person would throw insults out at the insultee. The person being insulted would then respond, I listen what you are saying and I am open to a conversation with you later.

This went on and on. Because most of the people didn't know eachother, the more seasoned ATI members just threw out insults about personal appearance. It was just awful.

Anyway, the reason for this post is that the root of this organization goes back to EST. Werner Echard, founder of EST, financed Fernando Florez and his 'vision' of training people through these very expensive seminars which involve linguistics and computer intelligence. Flores now runs 'Business Design Associates' with other offshoot companies. They also have courses (did back in 1989) which students communicate online, and my boss and his wife paid tens of thousands of dollars to take these courses (I guess they're called intranet communications).

When I saw the web page for insight seminars and did some research on what goes on in these seminars, I got that same awful, red-flag, creepy feeling.

I managed to work for that architect for 5 years and he was well aware that I wanted nothing to do with his way of communicating nor his group. I didn't come out and say it was a cult, but it is.

That is my only experience of brushing against motivational type cults and one weekend was enough for me! I've blocked out a lot of what happened during that seminar except the overall feeling of being trapped.

When I got back the following Monday, one of my co-workers told me of another employee who had been sent by this boss to the same seminar and walked out. Shortly thereafter, he was fired.

I guess this is just another story about how things are not what they look like on the outside. Especially when it concerns miragi, and any other offshoots of his extensive financial world and playground.

When I found out it was connected to EST I almost shit!

Dodged the bullit that time!

Love, Cynthia

The company 'Action Technologies, Inc.' and 'Logonet' were established by a man named Fernando Flores who studied neurolingistics at Stanford.

What I later discovered is that

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Date: Wed, Nov 17, 1999 at 18:11:30 (EST)
From: Peter Howie
Email: None
To: Cynthia G.
Subject: Re: CULTS CULTS CULTS..Insight Seminars
Message:
Cynthia there are a few good books about regarding Werner Erhard. There are probably heaps that are pro and heaps that are anti. The anti ones are more fun. Yes he operated on a very similar basis to MJ. He had, at his height, tens of thousands of willing volunteers who took all the abuse he could hand out, who promulgated (propogated - like in plants) to get paying customers for his programs which he had cobbled together from numerous sources and presented them as his own. It was a real one-size-fits-all process. He raked in a fortune and was, while being busted for fucking with his daughters lives, being busted for completely dodgey (Australian for illegal) tax avoidance schemes. His presence was like darshan is for premies. The PAMS around werner were there for the bucks as much as the darshan though. They too were mostly professional sales and marketing people with a few celebrities - John Denver.

All good stuff really to be able to look at and see myself in. Anyway good to see that your radar is up an functioning well. I had a somewhat similar experience with Herbalife back in the mid-eighties.

Cheers

Peter Howie

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Date: Tues, Nov 16, 1999 at 23:55:12 (EST)
From: Runamok
Email: None
To: Cynthia G.
Subject: Re: CULTS CULTS CULTS..Insight Seminars
Message:
As I understand it, Erhard left the states amidst allegations of incest made by one or both of his daughters. He lives Costa Rica (or did until recently) which is a kind of Switzerland (i.e., neutral) of S. America and makes itself as a haven for high profile undesirables (Miragey and PAMs, take note).

Erhard was some of the original money behind Muktananda.

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Date: Tues, Nov 16, 1999 at 21:56:12 (EST)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Cynthia G.
Subject: Re: CULTS CULTS CULTS..Insight Seminars
Message:
Cynthia,

Looks like your post was cut off. Care to finish it?

My brother attended an EST seminar in the early eighties. He was unbearable for months.

Can you believe Deputy Dog's gushing over this stuff?? No wonder he's still stuck in the cult.

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Date: Wed, Nov 17, 1999 at 08:14:52 (EST)
From: Cynthia G.
Email: cynthia@madriver.com
To: gerry
Subject: Re: CULTS CULTS CULTS..Insight Seminars
Message:
Gerry,

My post wasn't cut off, I just had some text at the bottom of my reply which I forgot to delete...sorry.

Cynthia

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Date: Tues, Nov 16, 1999 at 21:30:59 (EST)
From: Deputy Dog
Email: None
To: Cynthia G.
Subject: Cynthia EST was fantastic. It's called the Forum now. (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Wed, Nov 17, 1999 at 09:26:31 (EST)
From: Cynthia G.
Email: cynthia@madriver.com
To: Deputy Dog
Subject: EST, now FORUM...Is That Evolution or Revisionism?(nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Wed, Nov 17, 1999 at 10:07:51 (EST)
From: Deputy Dog
Email: None
To: Cynthia G.
Subject: No Cynthia, it's a cosmic conspiracy (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Wed, Nov 17, 1999 at 10:23:39 (EST)
From: Nick Danger, Third Eye
Email: None
To: Deputy Dog
Subject: Don't You Mean Cosmic Surgery? (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Wed, Nov 17, 1999 at 23:19:16 (EST)
From: Deputy Dog
Email: None
To: Nick Danger, Third Eye
Subject: Yes! (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Tues, Nov 16, 1999 at 09:57:13 (EST)
From: Shp
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Ex-Premie Survey
Message:
To all Ex-Premies:

Please check in on this thread and identify where you are at.
Thank you.

1) I left Maharaji because:
a) I just did not feel the urge to meditate or follow him anymore.
b) I found another teacher and/or meditation technique that I prefer.
b) I had a bad experience with him and/or one of his representatives.
c) I think he's a false teacher.
d) other

2) I still practice Knowledge.
a) yes
b) no

3) I have no bad feelings about Maharaji, even though I don't follow him anymore.
a) true
b) false

4) I think he is doing good in the world, I just don't choose to follow him anymore.
a) yes
b) no

5) I think premies are impossible to communicate with objectively about Maharaji unless they are on the way out to become ex-premies:
a) agree
b) disagree

6) I think premies are:
a) stupid
b) evil
c) naive
d) doing what they believe in and it's OK with me
e) brainwashed
f) a waste of time to try to communicate with
g) other

7) I still entertain the remote possibility that despite all the allegations as chronicled on this site, Maharaji may well still be doing what he originally set out to do, which is to spread Knowledge to the world.
a) yes
b) no

8) I post under a false name on the ex-premie site because:
a) I am afraid of reprisals by Maharaji/EV.
b) I am a prankster and don't want to be accountable for my words.
c) I am just shy.
d) other

9) I believe there will be a full accounting and a peaceful reconciliation between Maharaji and many ex-premies:
a) agree
b) disagree

10) Comments:

Possibly more to come, with your kind permission....

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Date: Thurs, Nov 18, 1999 at 09:54:30 (EST)
From: Grace
Email: None
To: Shp
Subject: Re: Ex-Premie Survey
Message:
1. c I left because he is a false teacher
2. a Yes, I practice occasionally
3. a I have no bad feelings toward M
4. a&b Yes, he's doing some good, but also hurting others
and doing it for his benefit.
5. b
6. c Premies are naive & d They are doing what they believe and it's OK with me.

7. a & b Yes, he's spreading Knowledge but he also has his best interests in mind.

8. d - other

9. b - No way will he ever give a full accounting to anyone

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Date: Tues, Nov 16, 1999 at 13:20:42 (EST)
From: Joy
Email: JoyFenwick@aol.com
To: Shp
Subject: Re: Ex-Premie Survey
Message:
Okay, SHP, I'll take you at face value and have a go at your little survey. I've only returned to reading the site recently, but have perceived a dislike for you from some people, but haven't been around long enough to find out why. I wish you'd have included your e-mail address, since if you REALLY want to know the answers to these questions, it might be more appropriate for people to e-mail you personally. But here's my honest opinion (I was a premie for 10 years and have now been an ex for 18):

1. — a, b and c

2. — b (it was a waste of time)

3. — b (plenty of bad feelings about Maharaji, I feel he's a supreme rip-off artist)

4. — b (I think he's deluding people and conning them out of their money)

5. — a (unfortuante but true. It's possible to communicate objectively with them about anything else, and I still have many good premie friends from my guru days, but the only one I can make a joke about it with is someone with a very open mind who probably wouldn't technically be considered a premie any more, though he hasn't realized it yet!)

6. — d — to each his own! I believe in freedom of religion (use the term loosely, of course) If I like someone personally but they choose to be a premie or stare at their navel all day chanting OM, I have no problem with it, doesn't stop me liking them.

7. — b. See my answer to #4

8. I do not feel the need to post under a false name.

9. b. No way, Jose. Maharaji will NEVER admit to having caused anybody any harm or distress, or to being in any way wrong. This would be what would be required for a full accounting, for both sides to admit any faults or errors, come clean, seek forgiveness, etc. I CANNOT see BM ever doing this, unfortunately.

So does that answer your questions, SHP? Hopefully this wasn't all just a windup and I've made a fool of myself!

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Date: Tues, Nov 16, 1999 at 16:28:25 (EST)
From: Shp
Email: None
To: Joy
Subject: Re: Ex-Premie Survey
Message:
Thank you for your response. It was requested sincerely and given sinceely. No windups from me.
Shp
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Date: Tues, Nov 16, 1999 at 11:50:20 (EST)
From: Gregg
Email: None
To: Shp
Subject: Re: Ex-Premie Survey
Message:
I started to honestly reply to your questions, but found it impossible. Some things are a little too complex to reduce to a multiple choice quiz. Although it should probably be clear to you by now that most ex-premies - on this site, at least - do not practice Knowledge. They practice knowledge.

They look back on their premie years with various degrees of regret (I'm not one of the more vitrolic exes...perhaps because I didn't lose twenty years to the cult), but are mostly happy that the veils of belief fell away, allowing them to participate in life wholeheartedly, as it is, without the crutch of simplistic faith in a most definitely un-enlightened master.

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Date: Tues, Nov 16, 1999 at 10:16:26 (EST)
From: Runamok
Email: None
To: Shp
Subject: red tape for all
Message:
1. I sincerely think you
a. talk too much
b. expect too much
c. show poor judgement and lack of self-knowledge in seeking numerous answers to your many questions
2. I know you can be
a. sincere
b. well-intentioned
3. I wonder when it will hit you that Miragey is
a. a con man
b. an unnecessary icon in your 'spirituality'
c. a progenitor of your mind
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Date: Tues, Nov 16, 1999 at 10:31:26 (EST)
From: Shp
Email: None
To: Runamok
Subject: Re: red tape for all
Message:
Dear Run,
Enough about me!
I thought this might help us all communicate better, if ex-premies went on record (those who haven't submitted their journeys), as to how they feel about specific things asked. I'm not preaching, writing poetry, posting under fake names...just reaching out and asking where you all are at. Is that bad too?
If so, what's left besides the door? Ohhhhhh....I get it! You want me to either drop Maharaji or leave,
Is that it? Maybe I should put that question on the survey....
Shp
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Date: Tues, Nov 16, 1999 at 18:35:23 (EST)
From: Runamok
Email: None
To: Shp
Subject: Blood red tape for all
Message:
OK Shp,

8) I post under a false name on the ex-premie site because:
c) I am just shy.

PS Door's work in both directions!

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Date: Tues, Nov 16, 1999 at 14:47:49 (EST)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: None
To: Shp
Subject: ***Best of Forum*** (Shp & Run)
Message:
I've sworn off responding to Shp and from now on will only do so with this link - ***The Best of Shp***.

However, Shp's survey and Runamok's excellent and to the point response deserve recognition as a ***Best***.

Shp, you say I thought this might help us all communicate better. You speak as if we all are living here together and that you belong to this family. For many of us, Shp, we simply no longer wish to communicate with you as we feel that there is no point to it anymore. I believe that your idea of communicating with us is we are providing you a platform to espouse your new age views and preach and satsang us. You go on and on and on. You repeat yourself, you refuse to hear what we say, you twist and squirm, you refuse to really admit that you are ever wrong, and you are exceptionally smarmy and insincere.

You ask, just reaching out and asking where you all are at. Is that bad too? You should know this by now, but like a door to door salesman are looking for us to crack the door open so that you may gain entry with your foot and preach to us. You are insincere, Shp.

And you say, If so, what's left besides the door? Ohhhhhh....I get it! You want me to either drop Maharaji or leave,

No, I think that most of us really do not care one way or another whether an individual, especially you, leaves Maharaji. Getting you to leave Maharaji is definitely not my purpose on this Forum. I could care less.

Basically, what you continue to do on our Forums feels like abuse and many of us are tired of it. In short, many of us wish that you would leave. Shp, for your own sake this cannot be healthy. You appear to be obsessed with your crusade. I cannot imagine how any of this is good for you unless you enjoy being a martyr.

Don't bother responding, all you'll ever get from me is ***The Best of Shp***.

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Date: Tues, Nov 16, 1999 at 17:24:32 (EST)
From: dishonest premie
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: I capitualte! shp figured me out.
Message:
shp is right, it was ME and the others in the gang
we called 'dishonest premies', WE were the ones doing
all the bad things, it wasnt gur maharaj ji, he
like sanford pass says, is was and will be pure.
May the oneness forgive me, er, well, it isnt concious
so what do I have to worry about?
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Date: Tues, Nov 16, 1999 at 17:30:04 (EST)
From: bill
Email: None
To: dishonest premie
Subject: Re: I capitualte! shp figured me out.
Message:
If I was to tell you why there is a good reason to
find prem rawat's actions worth stopping, you
would merely waste my typeing time because you dont read
peoples posts.
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Date: Wed, Nov 17, 1999 at 07:18:53 (EST)
From: Shp
Email: mcpass1@earthlink.net
To: bill
Subject: Reply to bill
Message:
Bill,

I don't read every single post, but I have been reading all posts directed to me.

But today I am wondering, as many of you have been for awhile, what the hell I am doing here.
Nothing against any of you, I have just been sort of mesmerized by the shimmering vision of some very upset people with legitimte complaints about Maharaji, which shifts to the stupid jokes and diatribe that fill the space bewteen the presentation of the substantial problems. I have been slowed down in my momentum to whereever it is I was going before I came here, and have been compelled by my own common sense and feelings to take a serious look at some of what is presented on this site.

I don't believe that I ever said 'it' (all the problems, especially Jagdeo) was all the work of 'dishonest premies' and Maharaji was totally above it all. Yet I am being credited for such a comment. Not so. Oh well. It's not my reputation that is in question here. I have just been pulled into the mire (and jumped into it a little on my own steam - human nature I guess) by getting involved. So now I am making an effort to get un-involved. I will not be able to forget some of what I have heard here, and I am grateful for the information.

To everyone who, with a good heart, tried to tell me something that you believe to be true, thank you. To everyone who came after me in any other spirit but to help bring clarity, take care.

Shp

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Date: Wed, Nov 17, 1999 at 09:59:53 (EST)
From: bill
Email: None
To: Shp
Subject: oh my god shp
Message:
You do not take a 'serious look' here and that is our
complaint with you.
Dont go into that -possibly anguished- mode again!
It is just a manipulation ploy and you have do it
a hundred times at least.
Come on, try to identify what it is you want. You like
rajneesh said, are not ready or williing (or needing-I
suppose), to leave the devotee world.
FINE.
Accept that and go continue with it!
Reread the rajneesh post and make tracks to the sattelite
dish store and get one and just sign up for the
programs and enjoy yourself!
I know others that still do, YOU are meant to do that
also! It is in you to do it so accept that and stop
fighting the impulse and follow your impulse.

Who knows your steps but it is obvious to all that you
are not meant to be here!
Accept that as an indication that you yourself are
telling us and trying to tell yourself that
there is more for you at the events with prem rawat
and go in peace and enjoy what is for you!
No problem!
Go with your (ahem) heart.
You badger us when it is YOUR journey that is calling you,
you want us to take your journey when it is waiting
for YOU to take it. There are freinds there, dont poison
your path by inputting info from here.
Well, you arent anyway, but you ARE reading it.
Happy Trails Sanford! you are just in the wrong one at
the wrong time!
Walk into the sunny day and go benefit from prem rawats
words, he can be a plus, he is offering his insights
and some of them are dowm your alley.
That is fine Sanford, let go of the scene that does not
support that. Go with what you feel pulled by.
It is calling, that is what you resonate with now, and
perhaps for a good reason.
Really Sanford, heading off to follow your path would
engender respect for you from those of us here.
To your own self be true! And all that.
But, to stay........... that makes no sense.

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Date: Thurs, Nov 18, 1999 at 08:18:10 (EST)
From: Shp
Email: None
To: bill
Subject: note to bill
Message:
'The Forum is an unmoderated collection of ongoing threaded discussions where ex-premies, current premies, and non-premies express their views on anything and everything related to following Maharaji, practicing Knowledge, and life afterwards.' -Forum !V Intro excerpt

'You do not take a 'serious look' here and that is our (our?) complaint with you.' -bill

bill,

I was re-reading some of the posts and I came across your quote above. I have to disagree with you.
I have taken things said here very seriously. You have no idea. This is not an anguished 'mode'.
This is anguish. You fail to recognize this simple fact that I have felt alot of feelings from being here
in sympathy.

I want now and have always wanted to be in a compassionate mode with everyone here, not wishing to hurt or be hurt. Unfortunately, I got hurt and I am told that I hurt others, by things said and interpreted one way or another. Nothing too serious or long-term on either side, I am sure.

There are clearly sub-groups in the ex-premie world. Some have left with no hard feelings and gone on to other things. Some have had bad experiences with DLM/ personnel and attributed it to Maharaji and left with real bad feelings. Some have serious doubts about Maharaji's real motives and think he is a fake teacher and left because of that. You do not represent all ex-premies, or for that matter, you don't represent all the ex-premies on this site. The 'our' you refer to in you above quote is unqualified and unnecessary. I would respect you just as much if you had said 'my complaint'. You don't need a bunch of people behind you to impress me. All you need to impress me with is the truth.

And don't be so presumptuous as to tell me to go 'buy a dish' or something like that. Like you, I have many choices besides this place or premieworld. It's a big world out there and bigger inside.
Take care,
Shp

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Date: Wed, Nov 17, 1999 at 12:04:01 (EST)
From: Shp
Email: None
To: bill
Subject: Re: oh my god bill
Message:
Bill,

Part of being true to myself has been to be here and listen
Which I have done despite your denials and accusations.
We could all call each other names and tell each other to
Go here or there from our own perspective until the cows
Come home. You are right about my being at a crossroads
And your reverse-psychology of 'go on back and enjoy'
Is weird. I know my rights and my freedom of movement.
You are so into the words that you miss the mere fact that
I am here and not to disrupt or hurt anyone. I am not in cahoots
With anyone at EV to spy or infiltrate. I don't see ex-premies
As lost souls or 'bad' anything like that, just because they are ex-premies.

I am confused and I admit it.
Saying it out loud often helps to clear the air.
I am confused as to how I could receive Knowledge from and have devotion for
someone who has allegedly brought so much pain and suffering
into the lives of some of my 'brothers and sisters', others who have received Knowledge

My personal dilemma and the time and space it has taken here angers you and others, and I am sorry for inflicting it on anyone. Be assured I have not done this for your entertainment, torment, or to clog up your threads. I don't judge your journeys, your comings or goings to or from Maharaji or any other discipline. It is not for me to judge. Judging mine just makes it harder for two sovereign free will human beings to communicate. If I was walking down the street and you or anyone here were lying in the road freshly hit by a car, I'd get help and do whatever I could to save your life and comfort you, regardless of your philosophy or your rejection of Maharaji. To me, that is the bottom line, that is what matters, what we would do in real time in a life and death situation when the chips are down. I would not qualify someone before helping out in a life and death situation. If you feel the same, then we can agree at least on something.

As for the DLM/EV/Maharaji 'dirty laundry', I know things have not been 'perfect'. Known it for years.
You don't have to be real bright to see the shit. But what I knew of it was nothing like the Jagdeo affair until I read it here, and up until now I have accepted the fact that if someone tries to do something on a global level and organize an international effort to do something, then the law of averages and human nature demand some things to fall into the minus column. Plusses and minusess, that's what this is about. We stay with something or someone until the minuses outweigh the plusses, then we change. For me, the plusses have outweighed the minusses with Maharaji...and then I came here and heard the cries of ex-premies through the insults and the pain and anger, and something changed inside me that is still in the process of changing. What the outcome will be I don't know, and I don't need or want any cynical or negative prognostications, please. If we were ever friends, just wish me well and for God's will and grace to manifest in my life. That is what I wish for you and all here. Best,

Shp

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Date: Wed, Nov 17, 1999 at 16:41:33 (EST)
From: bill
Email: None
To: Shp
Subject: Re: oh my god bill
Message:
I have read too many of your posts where you clearly
are a solid premie of maharaji.
Maybe a stroll through the archives will refresh your
memory.
How old was maharaji when he heard about jagdeo anyway?
Too young to know how to react as we would like.
But anyway, in the devotee world things are different.
Maybe he DID confront jagdeo.
SO, let go of that one.
There is nothing here that is all that compelling
about m that hits you so that is fine, face it and
just, again, realize that your not supposed to be here
at this time.
If you were in a place of needing to understand
for yourself, you would not post like you do.

So, the wild blue yonder is there, maharaji is
suggesting things, and you are still in the plus
column with him, so, accept that and get back to
your primary focus.

You are not needing anything at this time,
jai sat chit anand.

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Date: Tues, Nov 16, 1999 at 06:53:26 (EST)
From: Victoria
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Forum V
Message:
Hi,

Just checking in...it's good to see you all posting here. I've been away from the ex-sites for a while, so I have no idea what you've all been up to. I love the ex-only forum and am wondering...What is Forum V all about?

Love,
Victoria

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Date: Tues, Nov 16, 1999 at 17:33:08 (EST)
From: bill
Email: None
To: Victoria
Subject: Re: Forum V
Message:
Hi Victoria!
I myself am hopeing to make the ex only forum
my main stop.
It is about making the forum more secure from pranks.
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Date: Mon, Nov 15, 1999 at 21:37:20 (EST)
From: la-ex
Email: None
To: All
Subject: blockhead's blunder at the res...
Message:
A friend of mine relates the following story that occurred at the residence in the last year or so with some of the pam's and m. Sean brogan,trying to show everyone how much he's in touch with m's work, starts pumping m about all of m's projects in other countries, like india, mauritius, australia etc. Sean is going on and on, asking m all these questions, trying to show off about how much he knows about the different sites around the world. Someone throws out a lawyer joke to m and gets him laughing, so sean figures he needs to one up the guy in the joke department. He says to m, with about 200 people listening, what do Lucille Ball and Monica Lewinsky have in common? M replies that he doesn't know. Marilyn and the two girls are looking on, everyone is in a state of expectation for the punch line. Sean says 'they both had sex with a cuban'. The entire crowd goes dead silent -Marilyn looked like she was ready to castrate sean brogan. M says-'You know, sometimes you're a very bad boy. A very, very bad boy.' That comment took some of the edge off of the wierdness, but it was pretty funny to see the look on m's face as well as his family's.Afterwards sean was bragging to someone about how many books he buys and how beautiful it is to serve m. He and his wife are two of the sickest idiots I have ever seen. And those are the amtext 'advisors'. What a company.
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Date: Thurs, Nov 18, 1999 at 13:10:18 (EST)
From: Former Decette
Email: None
To: la-ex
Subject: Poor Sean
Message:
I knew Sean Brogan some years ago and I can understand how he could act so, um, stupid. He just doesn't realize how stupid he really is. He is:

1. Not and alumni of the fast reading group;
2. One enchilada short of a combo plate;
3. One blade shy of a sharp edge;
4. Dumb as a box of rocks;
5. Married to someone who is obviously the 'brains' in the bookbuying operation -- not that it takes much 'brains,' especially when you have mindless cult members working for you.

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Date: Tues, Nov 16, 1999 at 11:04:34 (EST)
From: Joey
Email: None
To: la-ex
Subject: Re: blockhead's blunder at the res...
Message:
It seems that cheap sex jokes at the expense of women are no longer acceptable at these 'intimate' get togethers with m, especially if Marolyn and the girls are present.

However, I'd still be more impressed with m telling Blockhead...

'You know, sometimes you're a very bad boy. A very, very bad boy

...if he had said it in relation to the guys 'business practices', and not his cheap jokes.

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Date: Tues, Nov 16, 1999 at 09:04:20 (EST)
From: Grace
Email: None
To: la-ex
Subject: Re: blockhead's blunder at the res...
Message:
Am I missing something here? Did M have sex with a Cuban woman? Is/was his mistress Cuban?
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Date: Tues, Nov 16, 1999 at 09:25:35 (EST)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Grace
Subject: Froggies don't get it
Message:
I guess Cuban is an allusion to his cigar ...

Unless Rawat looks like one.

Some women enjoy smoking cigars, specially after a good meal.

I'm confused I guess ....

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Date: Tues, Nov 16, 1999 at 17:34:39 (EST)
From: Hi JM,
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Re: Froggies don't get it
Message:
nt
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Date: Tues, Nov 16, 1999 at 09:47:02 (EST)
From: Nick Danger, Third Eye
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Re: Froggies don't get it
Message:
Lucille Ball was married to Ricky Ricardo, a Cuban (his real name?). And Monica (Lewinsky) literally had sex with a Cuban cigar (for Mr. Clinton's viewing enjoyment--I'm sure Bill didn't inhale that cigar).

Nick Danger, Third Eye, at your service

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Date: Tues, Nov 16, 1999 at 10:50:00 (EST)
From: trivia buff
Email: None
To: Nick Danger, Third Eye
Subject: This froggie does:::))
Message:
Lucille Ball was married to Ricky Ricardo, a Cuban (his real name?).

Answer: Desi Arnez

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Date: Tues, Nov 16, 1999 at 19:16:20 (EST)
From: Nick Danger, Third Eye
Email: None
To: trivia buff
Subject: Thanks, Mr. Buff. I Had A Brain Freeze (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Tues, Nov 16, 1999 at 22:51:17 (EST)
From: Informed source
Email: None
To: Nick Danger, Third Eye
Subject: Better to have a brain freeze....
Message:
...than have a brain that's in Shp's condition.

CHAOTIC and WATERY

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Date: Wed, Nov 17, 1999 at 00:08:01 (EST)
From: Nick Danger, Third Eye
Email: None
To: Informed source
Subject: Re: Better to have a brain freeze....
Message:
Sorta like a mental monsoon?
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Date: Wed, Nov 17, 1999 at 11:44:59 (EST)
From: Informed Source
Email: None
To: Nick Danger, Third Eye
Subject: Re: Better to have a brain freeze....
Message:
When it comes to the state of Shp's mind...I think its more like a psychotic monsoon.
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Date: Tues, Nov 16, 1999 at 10:39:57 (EST)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Nick Danger, Third Eye
Subject: Re: Froggies don't get it
Message:
I knew there was at least one cigar involved, didn't know who's!

Thank you.

jm

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Date: Mon, Nov 15, 1999 at 22:45:51 (EST)
From: bill
Email: None
To: la-ex
Subject: Re: blockhead's blunder at the res...
Message:
unknown to many, rawat himself went into drek er I
mean sex jokes big time in the mid to late eighties.
Maybe JM could relate, in instructor events for a while
the lord used to tell lots of sex jokes.
Again, Hansi told one at the lords 15th anniversary
event in miami in about 83.
I'll send it to JW and let him retell it from the tape.
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Date: Mon, Nov 15, 1999 at 23:34:09 (EST)
From: DV
Email: None
To: bill
Subject: Re: blockhead's blunder at the res...
Message:
I remember that one. It was a homosexual joke. I also remember the next day when someone started cursing m during his speech the next day, and m got rather uppity and told this guy not to curse in front of his kids. I noticed the hippocrasy even then.
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Date: Tues, Nov 16, 1999 at 11:18:11 (EST)
From: Joey
Email: None
To: DV
Subject: Re: blockhead's blunder at the res...
Message:
I wonder if m rebuked Hansi in public for his homosexual joke, as he rebuked Sean for his cheap sex joke biased against women, in front of Marolyn and the girls.
I wonder.
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Date: Sun, Nov 21, 1999 at 00:53:07 (EST)
From: bb
Email: None
To: Joey
Subject: Re: blockhead's blunder at the res...
Message:
NO, dont fergit, prem asked hansi to speak, and there
was no way that prem was not going to check up on
what was going to be said.
The tone of thier house must have allowed hansi to feel
that he could uncork that story at a major event and
that it was ok.
It WAS during the era when the lord was telling dirty
jokes to the instructors.
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Date: Tues, Nov 16, 1999 at 01:04:26 (EST)
From: bb
Email: None
To: DV
Subject: Re: blockhead's blunder at the res...
Message:
Hi DV,
Your right about the joke by hans,
I think you may be mixing up the date on the other
incident. It happened during one of the first
times the lord took questions from the audience.
The guy didnt get the microphone, but yelled out
his complaints about the 'chickenshit instructors'
and m said 'dont use fowl language' or at least that is
how Clair and I took his use of the word FOUL.
We laughed because we looked at it as being FOWL.
He told the guy to go jump in the canal that ran
along the miami convention center.
That was during the days when we could fill that place.
THe guy was banned from coming in the next day.
Maybe longer than that.
Well, the lord DID do something with the instructors,
he dropped them out the door.
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Date: Mon, Nov 15, 1999 at 22:55:05 (EST)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: None
To: bill
Subject: I won't spoil the punchline (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Mon, Nov 15, 1999 at 03:36:16 (EST)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Could this be Catweasel?
Message:
Elmars Krausz Graduate of the University of Sydney.

Also check this link which has the tell tale link to the Big M

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Date: Mon, Nov 15, 1999 at 20:03:47 (EST)
From: Mel Bourne
Email: mbvictoria@hotmail.com
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: Message to Elmars.....
Message:
Hi Elmars

I don't know whether you post here (or even read), but you have already contributed enormously to this site by inadvertently appearing on it.

You see, a lot of the ex premies here tend to stereo type premies as intellectual cretins and losers, caught up by Maharaji in an unbreakable grip of 'cult' thinking, 'cult' behaviour and so on, and so on, ad nauseum.

You on the other hand have clearly demonstrated that they are wrong, you appear to be professionally and academically succesful and obviously have a good healthy family life (congratulations on the recent marriage in your family, BTW). Your website does heaps in dispelling the myths pedalled by propogandists on this site!

Thanks and keep up the good work

Mel

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Date: Mon, Nov 15, 1999 at 23:09:14 (EST)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Mel Bourne
Subject: Re: Message to dopey, er sneezy er sleepy er boring...
Message:
Hi Elmars

I don't know whether you post here (or even read), but you have already contributed enormously to this site by inadvertently appearing on it.

Really Mel? This is the first I've heard of this guy. 'Enormous contribution?' You're hallucinating.

You see, a lot of the ex premies here tend to stereo type premies as intellectual cretins and losers, caught up by Maharaji in an unbreakable grip of 'cult' thinking, 'cult' behaviour and so on, and so on, ad nauseum.

I haven't heard that expressed in those terms, Mel, but I know what you mean. The fact is this cult, like many other cults, attracted some very bright and sensitive people.

You on the other hand have clearly demonstrated that they are wrong, you appear to be professionally and academically succesful and obviously have a good healthy family life (congratulations on the recent marriage in your family, BTW). Your website does heaps in dispelling the myths pedalled by propogandists on this site!

All it really demonstrates, Mel, is that anyone can fall for a cult. No one is immune and everyone should be aware of the dangers.

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Date: Mon, Nov 15, 1999 at 06:58:50 (EST)
From: Catweasel
Email: If only you knew!!
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: This Could this be Paradise Catweasel?
Message:
Elmers is a lovely chap. But he's not me. Try 'Australia's most wanted' ......Cheers
The Cat
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Date: Mon, Nov 15, 1999 at 15:52:01 (EST)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: None
To: Catweasel
Subject: We know this about Catweasel
Message:
He prefers to post while in the nude.
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Date: Mon, Nov 15, 1999 at 08:35:17 (EST)
From: bb
Email: None
To: Catweasel
Subject: Thier relationship would have been NOT OK with the lord in the 70's and 80's
Message:
WHAT world within for gods sake!
If it was there mom and big bro would have known
about it and how little lord was the king of THAT
place too.

Surely Joan Apter should have reached this 'world within'
with all her efforts.
Or at least raja ji should have dont you think????????
or YOU.....

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Date: Mon, Nov 15, 1999 at 10:10:05 (EST)
From: Don Henley
Email: Hotel California
To: bb
Subject: Have you seen 'Back to the Future'
Message:
Picture this. This is it. When you die...NOTHING....ALL GONE
....You're Over...How valuable then is your life BB? And wouldn't you rather be happy ? That's the simple choice. You, Happiness and your limited Tenure. Why waste your life worrying about crap.
'Early in the morning, about the break of day ,
The early Bird is working so his life dont fade away,
He'll spend his days denying that he's got no time to fly upon the breeze,
While high upon his own, the Eagle flys alone and he is free,
The early bird is scratchin though the goings getting tough,
The time is passing by and then he just cant get enough,
He'll tell you all it's going well,you know there's something wrong
The early bird will wake one day and find his life is gone'
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Nov 15, 1999 at 23:05:01 (EST)
From: bb
Email: None
To: Don Henley
Subject: forward into the dream of your own
Message:
Uh, guess you forgot, you arent supposed to feel the
breath except during the 15 minutes between the other
techniques. I have a friend that asked prem rawat about
that exact issue in soulth africa and the response from
the lord was 'maybe the knowledge isnt for you'
because mr rawat was telling him to only feel the breath
for those 15 minutes and my friend was protesting.
SO, the eagle as you say is flying about 15 minutes
and that is during the meditation 4.

Your ASSUMPTION that life is nothing without the body runs
a bit against the eastern thinking doesnt it?????
Life is nothing and THEN you escape the BOREDOM of
this illusion and its reluctance to release you into
the nonselfconcious oneness. Which is where 'that
experience' you are pursueing via following mr rawat
is supposidly taking you.

That is actually funny, 'why waste your life worrying
about crap'.
I dont have to worry about 'crap', it is SO much part of
living here. The point is I dont have to follow someone
elses dream, I can have my own and pursue it!
It isnt a limited tenure, it is a great chance to spend
a lot of time making the most of all that is around me
and doing what I have to in order to overcome the
various and varied obstacles.
Unfortunately, I ran into a mind screwing madman dreamer
who inherited an insane mans dream. His revered dad was
a total nut case who played the eastern thinking to its
only real conclusion, HE WAS GOD!

And so, the eastern misunderstanding of life marches on.
At least here there is a group of bright folks who
refuse to spend thier lives under a madmans dream of
domination. And they are not only interesting and
funny, but helpful.

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Date: Tues, Nov 16, 1999 at 02:14:26 (EST)
From: Catweasel
Email: None
To: bb
Subject: Re: forward into the dream of your own
Message:
Silly bugger BB; You live and then you DIE ...Period. It's the bit in the middle that matters....Are you happy? Do you savor the living? Some of us are in the gutters but we are looking at the sky!
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Date: Tues, Nov 16, 1999 at 18:30:17 (EST)
From: bill
Email: None
To: Catweasel
Subject: SKY?
Message:
Is this what the last sattelite feed brought for a
revelation? Look to the sky?
prem rawat says lately that the breath is the only thing
and that only IT is the real no illusion thingee and
there is no god or self aware thingee except the
'master of life' who just has meditation tech's as
his calling card and claim to masterhood.

That is incorrect.
The rest of the philosophy leaves you nowhere.
Any religion or group or trip or cult eventually gets
around to saying that (in addition to all the other
sentences they dole out) that you should have some
moments of enjoyment. Is that the genius you are
reffering to as if I dont try for that also?

prem rawat stood right in the way of our pursueing
our own dreams and desires and played god to the
maximum hilt.
Leaving us 'in the gutters but we are looking at the sky!'
as you say.

You are just goofing anyway right?

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Date: Wed, Nov 17, 1999 at 04:30:11 (EST)
From: Brian Gumble
Email: None
To: bill
Subject: Re: SKY?
Message:
You seem to be a very regimented person ..Religous and living in your past .Have a look .....it's a very big sky, and it's all yours.What Downlink? What are you talking about?
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Date: Wed, Nov 17, 1999 at 16:51:51 (EST)
From: bb
Email: None
To: Brian Gumble
Subject: Re: SKY?
Message:
hi gumbie,
I dont know, you know, mood swings!
Probably on of DREKs links? He put 3 in one thread.
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Date: Tues, Nov 16, 1999 at 21:32:01 (EST)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: bill
Subject: Re: SKY?
Message:
I think it was Oscar Wilde who coined the phrase about being in the gutter and looking up at the sky. That saying has been around for donkey's years.
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Date: Tues, Nov 16, 1999 at 09:10:33 (EST)
From: Grace
Email: None
To: Catweasel
Subject: Re: forward into the dream of your own
Message:
Cool reply, Catweasel!
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Date: Mon, Nov 15, 1999 at 10:09:57 (EST)
From: Don Henley
Email: Hotel California
To: bb
Subject: Have you seen 'Back to the Future'
Message:
Picture this. This is it. When you die...NOTHING....ALL GONE

....You're Over...How valuable then is your life BB? And wouldn't you rather be happy ? That's the simple choice. You, Happiness and your limited Tenure. Why waste your life worrying about crap.

'Early in the morning, about the break of day ,

The early Bird is working so his life dont fade away,

He'll spend his days denying that he's got no time to fly upon the breeze,

While high upon his own, the Eagle flys alone and he is free,

The early bird is scratchin though the goings getting tough,

The time is passing by and then he just cant get enough,

He'll tell you all it's going well,you know there's something wrong

The early bird will wake one day and find his life is gone'

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Nov 15, 1999 at 11:15:01 (EST)
From: Sir Dave
Email: david@xyzx.freeserve.co.uk
To: Don Henley
Subject: Stating the obvious is all Maharaji ever does
Message:
Yep, we're all gonna die. Now does it take a master of the universe to figure that out? Definitely not!

Would you regret it if you'd denied yourself the things in life that you wanted, like relationships, children and all those things which Maharaji scorns and has tried to make people give up?

When we die, it will be nice for us to know that we helped some people here and that they benefitted from our lives. That's one thing we will take with us. The ordinary people; the friends and relations we have down here; they are what count.

How many people are born yogis and live their life in a state of perfect peace? None, I figure. Better to see what's in front of our noses and do the jobs that are crying out to be done. There's a lot of work to be done here. Have you noticed?

If a person worries too much about their own happiness, they have missed the point. The more we worry about our own happiness, the more miserable we become! And now, here's a poem that I wrote about a bird:


ONE SUMMER MORNING

Upon a branch
I saw a bird
All clothed in red
And blue and gold.
This bright bird sang
Up in the tree,
Such beauty rarely to behold.

The bright bird jumped
From branch to branch,
I strained my eyes
To get a chance
To see her clearly,
But she flew
Towards the sun.
A flashing streak
Of perfect hue
To touch my heart
And pierce it through.

What gift was this,
What living gem?
The answer surely
Lies with you.

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Date: Tues, Nov 16, 1999 at 02:21:45 (EST)
From: Richard Branson
Email: Alone
To: Sir Dave
Subject: Re: Stating the obvious is all Maharaji ever does
Message:
Who mentioned anything about 'the master of the universe'???
It's a simple fact any fool can figure out. Enjoy and savor every moment of this very fleeting existence!And dont suffer fools or ignorance.You're the Driver!!
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Date: Tues, Nov 16, 1999 at 11:40:46 (EST)
From: Joey
Email: None
To: Richard Branson
Subject: great advice!!
Message:
And dont suffer fools or ignorance.You're the Driver!!

All the reason one would ever need to stay away from m and his premies.

Thanks!

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Date: Wed, Nov 17, 1999 at 04:35:56 (EST)
From: Richard Branson
Email: None
To: Joey
Subject: Re: great advice!!
Message:
Your argument, your problem...let it go and it's over.You need to move on Joey....Cheers from the Worlds Chairman of the Bored Virgins
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Date: Wed, Nov 17, 1999 at 09:06:44 (EST)
From: Laurence Olivier
Email: None
To: Meryl Streep
Subject: Re: great acting!!
Message:
O Meryl! Never have I witnessed an actress who could deliver her lines as you do!!

You are sensational!!!

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Date: Mon, Nov 15, 1999 at 23:07:27 (EST)
From: bb
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: Re: Stating the obvious is all Maharaji ever does
Message:
your a gem Sir David
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Date: Mon, Nov 15, 1999 at 03:22:59 (EST)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: None
To: All
Subject: An interesting find on the net
Message:
Destroy Villians

Bring out the Bad Guys

Work is being done on this page at this very moment.

The Destroyer Novels wouldn't be the same without some of the truly unique villians found in their pages. Originally and still today, many of the evils fought by Remo, Chiun and Smith are the type you and I worry about. These include organized crime, drugs, the Mafia, foriegn enemies, psycho's, megalomaniacs and just about everybody else. The unusual villians have been everything from a computer chip to large machines to robots. Of course lets not forget the large group of other so called 'assassins' that Remo and Chiun have faced off against over the years.
Below is a woefully incomplete list of villians from the pages of the Destroyer Novels. (please feel free to contribute writeups for these)

Maharaji Gupta Mahesh Dor : Blissful Master, Divine Bliss Mission
Inc.

First Appearance: Book #19 'Holy Terror'

Current spiritual leader of the Divine Bliss Mission, the 15 year old Maharaji Dor, set up a Bliss-a-thon' to convince millions to throng to him and his Indian sect. By virtue of having brainwashed many high level members of the government, the sect was ordered shut down by CURE.

CURRENT STATUS : Dying. After claiming allegiance to his cause, Chiun intentionally brushed up against the Maharaji and used his Sinanju skills to cause a time delayed failure of the Blissful ones kidneys. 'To die in a foreign country would cause an international incident. To die in India would cause him to be thrown out with the rest of the garbage.'

Well, at least somebody knows the score!

Apparently there are these books and Maharaji appears in #19, The Holy Terror.

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Date: Mon, Nov 15, 1999 at 03:54:31 (EST)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: A premie page (UK) Tim Williams, a real newager
Message:
Tim WilliamsDo you UK ex-premies know this guy?
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Date: Mon, Nov 15, 1999 at 16:26:14 (EST)
From: Anon
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: Re: A premie page (UK) Tim Williams, a real newager
Message:
Sure, I know Tim Williams. I used to go to school with him and I helped him to make that website. We are good mates although we have our differences. He is, as you can see by his site, quite the 'cosmic one'. In fact, so much so that he is known by many as 'Cosmic Tim'. I have told him that his pages have attracted some interest here so he may respond in some way.
Pyramidas
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Date: Tues, Nov 16, 1999 at 00:56:15 (EST)
From: BILL
Email: None
To: Anon
Subject: Re: A premie page (UK) Tim Williams, a real newager
Message:
Well, ask him if 'the meaning of life can be figured out
by anyone', as he states on his web site,
what does HE think the meaning of life is.
It is not on his web site.
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Date: Tues, Nov 16, 1999 at 04:41:55 (EST)
From: Anon
Email: None
To: BILL
Subject: Re: A premie page (UK) Tim Williams, a real newager
Message:
OK Bill old chap, I'll ask him for you..I am a little weary of discussing the matter since the meaning of life for me now is clearly, largely about looking after my babies.

As you may have gathered, Tim is 'Pro' Maharaji in what I would judge to be a pretty unorthodox and outspoken way.
I would have have thought that when one asks any premie what they think the meaning of life is, that the response will be fairly predictable.

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Date: Tues, Nov 16, 1999 at 17:55:54 (EST)
From: Bill
Email: None
To: Anon
Subject: Re: A premie page (UK) Tim Williams, a real newager
Message:
Hi Anon,
your right, he is adding his own two cents,
which is commendable.
I figure you are right about his answer also.
You dont have to ask him that.
I have no war with him.

Tell me about your babies!
I must have missed the announcement!
Names
ages
activities

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Date: Mon, Nov 15, 1999 at 17:26:50 (EST)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: None
To: Anon
Subject: Oh, my god! I only report the news. I try not to make it.
Message:
Indeed, the website is quite impressive.

If anyone needs to get in touch with me I'm away on business until sometime after the Millennium.

My business partner, Pedro Alonso Lopez will be handling all of my correspondence.

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Date: Mon, Nov 15, 1999 at 08:45:32 (EST)
From: sinanju
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: Timi Willi
Message:
Great, another pile of platitudes to encourage shp.
I think he represents a chunk of the leftover
premies who are clinging to sentences like that in the
hopes that they somehow paint the picture of reality.
Too bad for timi, he is stuck in the limited eastern
thinking that claims it is just a stupid oneness and
we are dust in the freaking wind.
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Date: Mon, Nov 15, 1999 at 11:31:10 (EST)
From: Shp
Email: None
To: sinanju
Subject: Re: 'that stupid oneness...'
Message:
Sinanju,

You don't know me very well, do you?
Why do you have the need to criticize someone else's view of life?
Do all of us have to be cynics because you are?
What a dull world that would be if that were the case.
And it's a smart Oneness, not a stupid or eastern or western
one as you said. Oneness suggests no more directional preferences
And rightly so.
Just some of the parts are still stupid or alseep -
The parts who don't recognize it yet.
Like a foot or an arm that fell asleep from lack
Of circulation from being cut off, poor posture, etc.
And one day you will stretch, uncross the stuff in your head and
That tingling will begin that signals the blood is coming
Back into the part that was asleep for so long.
It hurts at first, especailly if you have cut off the blood
For a long time, but don't worry.
As soon as the initial pain wears off, it's quite nice
To have the full use of your faculties back again.
Just go with it and try to relax.

Shp

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Date: Mon, Nov 15, 1999 at 23:16:26 (EST)
From: sinanju
Email: None
To: Shp
Subject: Re: 'that stupid oneness...'
Message:
thats a hoot.
If I knew any others that were cosmic I could maybe
buy the argument. But people are NOT all that cosmic and
I think that is great. Let them be themselves!
That is hard enough dont you think?

How many people chant the dang song 'imagine' but
dont in any way live like that. Lennon didnt and couldnt
live that way himself!
In fact, he died as a result of that song and also
the one that said
'christ theyre gonna crucify me'

If the eastern stuff was based in reality do you think
india would stink as bad as it does?
even rawat has made it VERY clear that he cant stand to
be there at the most for ONE month.
The home and birthplace of the caste system!

come on sanford, there is not basis for the belief system.
It aint new yet there is no culture that reflects it.

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Date: Mon, Nov 15, 1999 at 12:28:27 (EST)
From: Deputy Dog
Email: None
To: Shp
Subject: Hey shp! Why do we bother? (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Mon, Nov 15, 1999 at 12:44:58 (EST)
From: Shp
Email: None
To: Deputy Dog
Subject: Re: Hey shp! Why do we bother? (nt)
Message:
DD,
Ya know, I'm not sure. I don't need to prove anything to anybody. I think most of what is going on here is sophomoric and moronic. Then there is that issue about Jagdeo that burns my conscience when I think about it and it won't go away. For that reason and that reason alone I maintain a contact here, although that really isn't necessary anymore, as I can stay in touch with a few exers I have met who don't have the need to feed off the blood of premies. It's definitely getting old around here.
It's the old loop of 'if you stay you're going to get kicked around' and 'if you leave you are running away and not face the truth'....in their eyes we are lost. I do not necessarily feel the same about them. I believe there are things going on beyond what meets the eye and I believe that God loves them as much as he loves any of his other creatures. I don't think they believe that, but I can't make them.

I definitely have other things to do that need doing. Gotta phase this out, like coffee.
Shp

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Date: Tues, Nov 16, 1999 at 00:47:17 (EST)
From: Nand
Email: None
To: Shp
Subject: we?
Message:
Dang, you make it sound like you have been reasonable.
You spend countless hours here and then you uncork the
statement that prem rawat was pure and it was all the
fault of dishonest premies.
Hardly seems like you have bothered to read
any of the posts here or cared about anything but
the offense by someone who is NOT prem rawat.

SO WE are the sophomoric and moronic ones.
Where indeed is your mirror.

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Date: Tues, Nov 16, 1999 at 07:19:40 (EST)
From: Shp
Email: None
To: Nand
Subject: Reply to Nand
Message:
'Dang, you make it sound like you have been reasonable.
'You spend countless hours here and then you uncork the
statement that prem rawat was pure and it was all the
fault of dishonest premies.' -Nand

Show me where I ever said that it was all the fault of dishonest premies. -Shp

'Hardly seems like you have bothered to read
any of the posts here or cared about anything but
the offense by someone who is NOT prem rawat.' -Nand

No so. -Shp

'SO WE are the sophomoric and moronic ones.' -Nand

Some of you are, and some premies are. Like I have always said, There are both good and decent folks and assholes on both sides of the premie/ex-premie fence.

'Where indeed is your mirror.' -Nand

My mirror is inside and outside of me and is by no means perfectly clean and shiny, any more than yours. -Shp

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Date: Tues, Nov 16, 1999 at 08:57:50 (EST)
From: Ian
Email: None
To: Shp
Subject: Your reply to Nand
Message:
I see your a believer of the 'satsang shield' , your so untouchable and correct. I wonder why you are not loved here, These ex pee's should be grateful that you choose to relieve your satsang itch on them.
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Date: Tues, Nov 16, 1999 at 18:05:15 (EST)
From: nand
Email: None
To: Ian
Subject: Ian
Message:
sanford pass is a retard.
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Date: Tues, Nov 16, 1999 at 09:37:04 (EST)
From: Shp
Email: None
To: Ian
Subject: Re: Your reply to Nand
Message:
Beg your pardon?

Shp

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Date: Mon, Nov 15, 1999 at 12:08:04 (EST)
From: Shark
Email: None
To: Shp
Subject: Wake up Butt Boy!
Message:
You've been had by one of the oldest tricks in the books. Can your spiritual act and be honest with yourself. You've been raped by Prem and his cronies!
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Date: Mon, Nov 15, 1999 at 12:27:21 (EST)
From: Shp
Email: None
To: Shark
Subject: Reply to Mr. Shark
Message:
Dear Mr. Shark,

I received your letter recently. Please elaborate on it if you have the time and the inclination. Also, please use your real name if you will. Thank you.

Sincerely,
Shp

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Date: Mon, Nov 15, 1999 at 13:17:03 (EST)
From: Shark
Email: None
To: Shp
Subject: You're not really stupid, son
Message:
Just read my post at the top. Christ!, it's time to wake up and save what's rest of your life. You know, you know!

Prem is poison.

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Date: Mon, Nov 15, 1999 at 13:28:03 (EST)
From: Shp
Email: None
To: Shark
Subject: Really, Dad? Thanks!
Message:
Shark,
I read your post about the negative sale - also known as the 'takeaway' close. I am not unaware of these tactics. I am also not unmindful of your calling me 'son' - subliminally putting yourself above me in authority and wisdom and male dominance, while at the same time using a term to create an intimate relationship implying that you care...simultaneously. What am I to make of that? Are you above me, and if so, what's the difference between your game and his? I do know something and it is coagulating into thoughts as we communicate. I am all ears.
Shp
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Date: Mon, Nov 15, 1999 at 13:46:27 (EST)
From: Shark
Email: None
To: Shp
Subject: Don't coagulate-Run
Message:
The takeaway is not exactly the same as the scHamster is still trying to create need. In the negative sale, he might say, 'I think you should wait' or 'Why do you think you are ready for this?'--ever heard that shit before??

Scram from Prem or let that 'thirst build'.

You are being raped.

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Date: Mon, Nov 15, 1999 at 05:03:58 (EST)
From: Charlie
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: Re: A premie page (UK) Tim Williams, a real newager
Message:
Hi Rog,

I don't remember him but it's possible that we worked for the same employer in 1976. Debenhams department store. I was a furniture porter just left school and he was a lift operator. Clearly he was always going to go up in the world.

Actually I find this guy's pages very entertaining. Hours of fun to be had following wacky links. Note that the link to M's page is the "Jackpot" of links.

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Date: Mon, Nov 15, 1999 at 14:33:30 (EST)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: None
To: Charlie
Subject: His site is a maze of links, sounds (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Mon, Nov 15, 1999 at 04:10:07 (EST)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: Another newager (US) with a radio show, Dr. Stanley Hobish
Message:
Wizard of Is, Dr. Stanley Hobish.
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Date: Mon, Nov 15, 1999 at 09:47:23 (EST)
From: sinanju
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: he is clearly the ultimate premie
Message:
He says in his story that
lichten
namen
sounden
and nectar are horses that take the premie
to prem rawat in the center of the inner universe
and she gets on a butterfly and LEAVES that which she
loves goodbye and 'says goodbye to boredom'!!!

SO, life here is boredom!
NO. just trying to find an experience inside is boring.
Typical eastern new/old age thinking.
Sour grapes. Instead of taking this life and building
something with it and loving it, we are told yet again
that this is boring illusion and the best you can hope
for (and what rawat is providing) is a death to what
you love and a slow ride to nowhere.
Mili, this type of thinking is so dear to your heart
isnt it. Tell me why.

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Date: Mon, Nov 15, 1999 at 08:56:10 (EST)
From: sinanju
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: Dr. god(behind the mask)
Message:
jeeze!
'to end this mad illusion
to remove the mask
to complete the task
to end this lifes confusion'

That is what rawat tried to do to us.
remove the mask, the identity and self and all our
dreams and personal impulses and uniqueness.
what is left according to rawat is just someone in
focus on him and serving him. the dream of a king.

The guy with the web site says that the mask is what
is not god, so, we are to just be god and be done
with the task. Remember when we had a [poster here that
took that advice and believed and implemented it?
He claimed he finally 'got it', we are all god and HE
was god.
MILI? This aint so far out of your home territory
now is it. The eastern guys you have on your website
suggest the same thing is reality.
YOU are the god.

Well, fish or cut bait, is that the reality or not.

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Date: Mon, Nov 15, 1999 at 04:12:32 (EST)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: Some newage online magazine
Message:
Shared Visions, a note from the publisher.
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Date: Mon, Nov 15, 1999 at 09:05:21 (EST)
From: NAND
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: letting go of control??
Message:
More eastern enslavement.
What in the name of NAND is wrong with having a dream
and doing what it takes to make it come true?
rawat had a dream, I am lord and you arent. He pursues
that still.
Could we have our own dreams? NO NO No way.

shp will never be able to have a dream and pursue it
because he like most premies, are crippled by the
effect rawat had on our wings.

The pathetic web site writer is sincere, but crippled
but the 'oh, just sit there and let the wave do its
thing, let the nanad have its way with me, I am just
here to be raped by the wave and find the peace that
comes from just accepting what the nand/guru/god/karma/
ect has to dole out to me. I have to just try and
somehow squelch myself and get out of the way of the nand.
fuck the nand, let it get its OWN body and follow its
OWN dreams and WORK like hell to make them come true.
sinanju

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Date: Mon, Nov 15, 1999 at 12:23:07 (EST)
From: Shp
Email: None
To: sinanju
Subject: Re: letting go of control??
Message:
'shp will never be able to have a dream and pursue it
because he like most premies, are crippled by the
effect rawat had on our wings.' -sinanju

Sininju,
You are trippin'.
You don't know me or my wingspan,
Where I have flown or what I have experienced.
And my dreams, they are mine. You have no idea.
Yet you use me as your foil to make your dull points.
Hey, free speech allows you to mis-use the language at will
and make your inaccurate pronouncements of my state of being.
One thing my dreams, visions and experiences have given me
is an impervious protection from thought forms like yours.
I will not be patrolling the threads here to refute you and others like you
At every juncture. I don't have the need to, knowing myself as I do.
I wish you whatever you need to chill out and relax into your own existence
Without feeling the need to stand on others to feel big.
Shp

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Date: Mon, Nov 15, 1999 at 23:28:37 (EST)
From: sinanju
Email: None
To: Shp
Subject: Re: letting go of control??
Message:
You nucklehead,
not spiritual dreams where you have a fantasy about
yourself in prem rawats dream of being lord.
AND NOT your dream that it was the 'dishonest
premies that were the source of all the non perfect
actions attributed to the lord'.
good grief, I forgot to really spell out the nature of
the opportunity to be here and purue a dream.
18 billion years or so of evolution wasnt to be under
the dream of a confused boy from india.
Whose own dream was one that should never had happened.
evil does exist and has its qualities.
Dont be any bit a part of that.
as its continued servant and subserviant dreamer.
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Date: Tues, Nov 16, 1999 at 07:27:28 (EST)
From: Shp
Email: None
To: sinanju
Subject: OK, sinanju, let's talk some more
Message:
Sinanju,

It would help us to communicate better, at least from my side, if you are serious about this, to identify yourself in this reality,...not the one that tells you that you have to hide behind some pseudonym to make your points. I hear you and some of it resonates.

I repeat here that I did not ever say that 'dishonest premies' were the only source of all the problems, and I have read much of what is in this website, the DLM papers, many journeys, and many posts.

Shp

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Date: Tues, Nov 16, 1999 at 18:07:59 (EST)
From: sinanju
Email: None
To: Shp
Subject: Re: OK, sinanju, let's talk some more
Message:
Yes you did say that. and you know it.
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Date: Wed, Nov 17, 1999 at 07:23:41 (EST)
From: Shp
Email: None
To: sinanju
Subject: Re: OK, sinanju, let's talk some more
Message:
Show me.
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Date: Sun, Nov 14, 1999 at 20:54:59 (EST)
From: la
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Two car Garaji
Message:
Does anyone remember the nickname given to m in the early seventies-I think it came out of NY. M was referred to as the perfect master, 'Two Car Garaji!'
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Date: Sun, Nov 14, 1999 at 23:28:31 (EST)
From: bb
Email: None
To: la
Subject: Re: Two car Garaji
Message:
In 74 I heard 'who is guru maharaj ji' reffered to as
'who has my garage keys'
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Date: Mon, Nov 15, 1999 at 02:48:25 (EST)
From: Peter Howie
Email: None
To: bb
Subject: Re: Other juicy rewrites - in the ashcan
Message:
Both those are pretty good.

My Mum (Mom in the US) used to talk to her friends and mine about me being in the 'ashcan' while I was in the ashram. Any others out there?

Peter

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Date: Mon, Nov 15, 1999 at 10:13:49 (EST)
From: 7 mile Rocks
Email: None
To: Peter Howie
Subject: Re: Other juicy rewrites - in the ashcan
Message:
Hey Peter, were'nt you in a paint can .
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Date: Mon, Nov 15, 1999 at 09:10:45 (EST)
From: NAND
Email: None
To: Peter Howie
Subject: Re: Other juicy rewrites - in the ashcan
Message:
well, the brother of ramdass used to call him
rammed ass.
In reference to his choice of orifices.
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