Forum IV: The Ex-Premie Forum
Archive: 11
From: Thurs, Nov 11, 1999 To: Thurs, Nov 25, 1999 Page: 1 Of: 5


Bim Doubtfire -:- The man from the moon -:- Sat, Nov 20, 1999 at 12:37:36 (EST)
__ Jim -:- One of the stupidest premies I've ever met -:- Sat, Nov 20, 1999 at 12:50:58 (EST)
__ __ Bim Doubtfire -:- Re: One of the stupidest premies I've ever met -:- Sat, Nov 20, 1999 at 13:48:52 (EST)
__ __ __ Jim -:- Yep, certainly a fool you are -:- Sat, Nov 20, 1999 at 15:10:57 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Roger eDrek -:- Admit it, Bim! You are... -:- Sat, Nov 20, 1999 at 15:36:16 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Bim Doubtfire -:- Re: Admit it, Bim! You are... -:- Sat, Nov 20, 1999 at 17:41:14 (EST)

Runamok -:- youngold and ock: osho -:- Sat, Nov 20, 1999 at 02:23:39 (EST)
__ youngold -:- Re: youngold and ock: osho -:- Sat, Nov 20, 1999 at 14:33:02 (EST)

old timer -:- where are they now? -:- Fri, Nov 19, 1999 at 19:03:38 (EST)
__ Chumbly -:- Re: where are they now? -:- Sat, Nov 20, 1999 at 02:50:21 (EST)
__ Roger eDrek -:- Re: where are they now? -:- Sat, Nov 20, 1999 at 02:32:13 (EST)
__ Joy -:- Re: where are they now? -:- Sat, Nov 20, 1999 at 01:16:17 (EST)
__ Nigel -:- I remember Bill Patterson -:- Fri, Nov 19, 1999 at 20:03:44 (EST)
__ __ JW -:- Re: I remember Bill Patterson -:- Sat, Nov 20, 1999 at 12:08:56 (EST)
__ Katie -:- Susie Bai -:- Fri, Nov 19, 1999 at 19:27:22 (EST)

TD -:- Cult members prosecuted -:- Fri, Nov 19, 1999 at 17:40:14 (EST)
__ Ned Kelly -:- Re: Cult members prosecuted -:- Sat, Nov 20, 1999 at 08:08:32 (EST)
__ __ Nigel -:- The point is, Catweasel... -:- Sun, Nov 21, 1999 at 16:49:47 (EST)
__ TD -:- That's Saturday night our time - the doco! (nt) -:- Fri, Nov 19, 1999 at 17:44:37 (EST)
__ __ Nigel -:- TD - if you're still logged on... -:- Fri, Nov 19, 1999 at 18:14:38 (EST)
__ __ Katie -:- Hi TD! -:- Fri, Nov 19, 1999 at 18:05:59 (EST)
__ __ __ TD -:- Hi Katie! -:- Fri, Nov 19, 1999 at 22:28:39 (EST)

Bim Doubtfire -:- Jagdeo and other stuff or staff -:- Fri, Nov 19, 1999 at 09:11:58 (EST)
__ Katie -:- Bob Mishler - to Bim -:- Fri, Nov 19, 1999 at 17:16:55 (EST)
__ __ Bim Doubtfire -:- Re: Bob Mishler - to Bim -:- Sat, Nov 20, 1999 at 05:12:24 (EST)
__ __ __ Katie -:- Re: Bob Mishler - to Bim -:- Sat, Nov 20, 1999 at 10:23:08 (EST)
__ What kind of name is Bim Doubtfire? -:- Re: Jagdeo and other stuff or staff -:- Fri, Nov 19, 1999 at 14:21:46 (EST)
__ __ Cynthia G. -:- Pedophiles -:- Fri, Nov 19, 1999 at 16:07:31 (EST)
__ __ __ Bim Doubtfire -:- Re: Pedophiles -:- Sat, Nov 20, 1999 at 05:43:29 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Jim -:- You are one sick fucker, Bim (falling in love with a five-year old??) -:- Sat, Nov 20, 1999 at 12:25:17 (EST)
__ __ __ __ The Doubter -:- Bim, you've been here before, haven't you? -:- Sat, Nov 20, 1999 at 05:52:25 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Bim Doubtfire -:- Re: Bim, you've been here before, haven't you? -:- Sat, Nov 20, 1999 at 07:26:29 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ The Doubter -:- Bim, how did you find us? -:- Sat, Nov 20, 1999 at 15:30:28 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Bim Doubtfire -:- Re: Bim, how did you find us? -:- Sun, Nov 21, 1999 at 08:37:52 (EST)
__ __ Bim Doubtfire -:- Re: Jagdeo and other stuff or staff -:- Fri, Nov 19, 1999 at 15:03:29 (EST)
__ __ __ Jim -:- If this were real life you'd be drooling (maybe smell funny too) -:- Fri, Nov 19, 1999 at 22:31:47 (EST)
__ __ The Doubter -:- Bim Doubtfire is another name for URL (nt) -:- Fri, Nov 19, 1999 at 14:25:47 (EST)
__ __ __ Ben Lurking -:- Re: Bim Doubtfire is another name for URL (nt) -:- Fri, Nov 19, 1999 at 16:00:55 (EST)
__ Jim -:- You might not be an idiot -- but you sure do sound like one -:- Fri, Nov 19, 1999 at 12:04:12 (EST)
__ __ Bim Doubtfire -:- Re: You might not be an idiot -- but you sure do sound like one -:- Fri, Nov 19, 1999 at 15:16:05 (EST)
__ __ __ who knows -:- Bim, meet Jim -:- Fri, Nov 19, 1999 at 15:37:48 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Ned Kelly -:- Re:Meet Jim, The little boy -:- Sat, Nov 20, 1999 at 19:55:01 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- So another cult coward with a bad sense of humour -- yawn (nt) -:- Sat, Nov 20, 1999 at 20:34:39 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Felix and Fritz the Cats -:- Re: So another obserant soul has picked me for what I am....A BORE -:- Sun, Nov 21, 1999 at 07:17:14 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ You Louse, You Wease -:- You'de steal flies from a blind spyder... -:- Sun, Nov 21, 1999 at 20:05:58 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Catweasel -:- Re: You'de steal flies from a blind spyder... -:- Tues, Nov 23, 1999 at 19:58:13 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ howard fine -:- Re: You'de steal flies from a blind spyder... -:- Wed, Nov 24, 1999 at 18:32:26 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Nigel -:- Meet 'who knows' - one more premie sniper in a mask -:- Fri, Nov 19, 1999 at 18:26:50 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ bill -:- Re: Meet 'who knows' - one more premie sniper in a mask -:- Sat, Nov 20, 1999 at 16:52:48 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ nigel -:- IMNAAHO -:- Mon, Nov 22, 1999 at 13:03:36 (EST)
__ Charlie -:- Re: Jagdeo and other stuff or staff -:- Fri, Nov 19, 1999 at 10:54:24 (EST)
__ __ Bim Doubtfire -:- Re: Jagdeo and other stuff or staff -:- Fri, Nov 19, 1999 at 12:02:31 (EST)
__ Peter Howie -:- Re: More bloody fruits -:- Fri, Nov 19, 1999 at 10:38:13 (EST)
__ __ I know who you really were -:- Re: More bloody fruits -:- Sat, Nov 20, 1999 at 04:48:02 (EST)
__ __ __ Katie -:- Hey, leave the guy alone -:- Sun, Nov 21, 1999 at 18:02:47 (EST)
__ __ __ Mr D -:- Truly a garland of hearts -:- Sat, Nov 20, 1999 at 21:25:39 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Cubby and Annette Funicello -:- Re: Truly a garland of hearts -:- Sun, Nov 21, 1999 at 07:23:18 (EST)
__ __ __ Jim -:- At least he's not afraid to use his own name, asshole -:- Sat, Nov 20, 1999 at 12:19:09 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Nemisis -:- He's afraid ,and He shouldn't be -:- Sat, Nov 20, 1999 at 20:10:32 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- So what's your excuse? -:- Sat, Nov 20, 1999 at 20:32:27 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- Re: So what's your excuse? -:- Mon, Nov 22, 1999 at 10:54:30 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Ned Kelly -:- Re: So what's your excuse? -:- Sun, Nov 21, 1999 at 07:28:22 (EST)
__ __ __ Bim Doubtfire -:- Re: More bloody fruits -:- Sat, Nov 20, 1999 at 07:32:27 (EST)
__ __ __ __ The Worlds most Recognisable Brand....No Name !!! -:- Re: More bloody fruits -:- Sat, Nov 20, 1999 at 08:22:59 (EST)
__ __ Bim Doubtfire -:- Re: More bloody fruits -:- Fri, Nov 19, 1999 at 11:28:52 (EST)
__ Ben Lurking -:- Re: Jagdeo and other stuff or staff -:- Fri, Nov 19, 1999 at 10:05:30 (EST)
__ __ Bim Doubtfire -:- Re: Jagdeo and other stuff or staff -:- Fri, Nov 19, 1999 at 11:53:14 (EST)
__ __ __ Helen -:- Re: Jagdeo and other stuff or staff -:- Sat, Nov 20, 1999 at 23:32:29 (EST)
__ __ __ Jim -:- Wow! Did you really say what I thought you just said? -:- Fri, Nov 19, 1999 at 12:15:28 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Roger eDrek -:- Jim types that in from memory! -:- Fri, Nov 19, 1999 at 14:53:42 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ H&R -:- The fat lady sang?nt -:- Fri, Nov 19, 1999 at 22:04:16 (EST)

Enough -:- The Greatest Magician -:- Fri, Nov 19, 1999 at 08:57:40 (EST)
__ Robyn -:- Re: The Greatest Magician -:- Fri, Nov 19, 1999 at 18:22:01 (EST)
__ __ Enough -:- Yes, Robyn ! (nt) -:- Fri, Nov 19, 1999 at 19:02:10 (EST)
__ Gregg, Who Kissed the Feet -:- Re: The Greatest Magician -:- Fri, Nov 19, 1999 at 16:12:23 (EST)
__ __ Enough -:- This is why -:- Fri, Nov 19, 1999 at 16:26:24 (EST)
__ __ __ archive -:- Re: This is why -:- Sat, Nov 20, 1999 at 16:56:07 (EST)

Roger eDrek -:- Bim Doubtfire - Sounds fake to me -:- Fri, Nov 19, 1999 at 02:13:10 (EST)
__ Bim Doubtfire -:- Re: Bim Doubtfire - Sounds fake to me -:- Fri, Nov 19, 1999 at 04:25:17 (EST)
__ __ Roger eDrek -:- Re: Bim Doubtfire - Sounds fake to me -:- Fri, Nov 19, 1999 at 04:59:21 (EST)
__ __ __ Bim Doubtfire -:- Re: Bim Doubtfire - Sounds fake to me -:- Fri, Nov 19, 1999 at 09:14:38 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Roger eDrek -:- And if you're lying... -:- Fri, Nov 19, 1999 at 14:55:31 (EST)

Marianne -:- November 18 -- Jonestown Anniversar -:- Thurs, Nov 18, 1999 at 21:37:55 (EST)
__ Cynthia G. -:- Re: November 18 -- Jonestown Anniversar -:- Fri, Nov 19, 1999 at 08:09:15 (EST)
__ __ bb -:- Thats the wrong date. -:- Sun, Nov 21, 1999 at 00:48:03 (EST)
__ __ __ Marianne -:- You are wrong, bb -:- Mon, Nov 22, 1999 at 00:05:36 (EST)

trader -:- alan imbarrato -:- Thurs, Nov 18, 1999 at 19:58:12 (EST)
__ Runamok -:- Re: alan imbarrato -:- Thurs, Nov 18, 1999 at 23:59:08 (EST)

trader -:- ashram recruiting -:- Thurs, Nov 18, 1999 at 19:35:55 (EST)
__ Roger eDrek -:- ***Best of Forum*** SURRENDER! -:- Fri, Nov 19, 1999 at 01:44:51 (EST)

charly chaplin -:- c.c.complex -:- Thurs, Nov 18, 1999 at 19:01:08 (EST)
__ Groucho -:- Re: c.c.complex -:- Fri, Nov 19, 1999 at 01:11:07 (EST)
__ __ Cynthia G. -:- Sex Offenders -:- Fri, Nov 19, 1999 at 08:18:14 (EST)
__ __ __ Don't mess with Charlie please -:- Re: Sex Offenders -:- Fri, Nov 19, 1999 at 09:39:50 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Cynthia G. -:- Re: Charlie Chaplin -:- Fri, Nov 19, 1999 at 18:51:47 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Charlie fan -:- Re: Charlie Chaplin -:- Sat, Nov 20, 1999 at 19:50:55 (EST)

la-ex -:- jw-prouty-ashram -:- Thurs, Nov 18, 1999 at 18:47:15 (EST)
__ Katie -:- Hey La-Ex - a question? -:- Fri, Nov 19, 1999 at 17:23:28 (EST)
__ JW -:- Re: jw-prouty-ashram -:- Thurs, Nov 18, 1999 at 19:06:30 (EST)

who knows -:- update - statistics -:- Thurs, Nov 18, 1999 at 15:18:17 (EST)
__ Roger eDrek -:- Ok, idiot savant -:- Thurs, Nov 18, 1999 at 15:50:02 (EST)
__ __ lib -:- Re: Ok, idiot savant -:- Thurs, Nov 18, 1999 at 16:40:29 (EST)
__ __ __ Roger eDrek -:- Gee, we're having an intelligent conversation! -:- Fri, Nov 19, 1999 at 00:36:00 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Sir Dave -:- Re: Gee, we're having an intelligent conversation! -:- Fri, Nov 19, 1999 at 10:34:57 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Roger eDrek -:- Sir D., you haven't heard? -:- Fri, Nov 19, 1999 at 14:21:42 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Sir Dave -:- That's news to me and -:- Fri, Nov 19, 1999 at 19:30:14 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Charlie -:- Re: Gee, we're having an intelligent conversation! -:- Fri, Nov 19, 1999 at 05:37:24 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ hramirez -:- http://anon.free.anonymizer.com/Re: Gee, we're having an intelligent conversation! -:- Fri, Nov 19, 1999 at 19:46:43 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ The UnHacker -:- Wow! hramirez, you're really so cool! (nt) -:- Sat, Nov 20, 1999 at 05:54:24 (EST)
__ __ __ Joey -:- Get real libby! -:- Thurs, Nov 18, 1999 at 22:37:51 (EST)
__ __ __ __ GOMER PYLE -:- Cheat and Deceit! Cheat and Deceit!(nt) -:- Fri, Nov 19, 1999 at 04:42:02 (EST)

Rev J Hammond-Smyth -:- The End Is (almost) Nigh -:- Thurs, Nov 18, 1999 at 12:15:35 (EST)
__ Roger eDrek -:- Gosh, I just report the news -:- Thurs, Nov 18, 1999 at 23:26:07 (EST)

Jim -:- A funny thought -:- Thurs, Nov 18, 1999 at 00:51:52 (EST)
__ Deputy Dog -:- Re: A funny thought -:- Thurs, Nov 25, 1999 at 10:22:28 (EST)
__ bb -:- Re: A funny thought -:- Thurs, Nov 18, 1999 at 13:16:06 (EST)
__ Grace -:- Re: A funny thought -:- Thurs, Nov 18, 1999 at 09:29:36 (EST)


Date: Sat, Nov 20, 1999 at 12:37:36 (EST)
From: Bim Doubtfire
Email: bim_doubtfire@hotmail.com
To: All
Subject: The man from the moon
Message:
Imagine a knowlegdeable man surfing into this pages. Imagine he has no clue about Maharaji or Knowlegde.

He would probably read through these pages, read through some of the mails and notice that here are some angry people. He would probably think that here are some kind of movement belonging to some people that are quite fanatic in their attitude. He might see that some of them plan how to distroy a birthday party for the wife of a person they seem to hate. He sees also that they try to destroy something for this person. He would also read in the mails that if somebody make any remarks opposite to the general attitude, some people will try to make such a person look like an idiot. He might also see a pattern of thoughts and may be he would think that this forum in some not so very subtle way, are programming these peoples thoughts and attitudes.

Would he think it is some kind of cult or sect?

When I was a student, I had one seminar where I took sociology. I remeber I read about a non-religios sect or cult. The survey was done by a person who pretended he was a cultmember. The basic for this cult was that one woman claimed she had had a vision. Her vision was that at a specific time and date, would be the end of the world. But just before that would happen, a spaceship should come down at one exact place and date and pick up a group of selected people. So they became a cult. In the survey it was shown how those people that were involved, were very protective towards each other, they developed their own cult words and doubter were not allowed. In their attitude it was them and the outsiders.

Sounds familiar? Remember Millenium? For me Millenium was a beutiful experience. Since I lived in a rather remote place, I did not hear all the rumors. Later I discovered that somebody had said that the whole Astrodome should be transformed into one gigantid spaceship. One person told me that when Maharaji heard this, he had asked: 'But what about the people on the floor?'

I do not mind you having this forum. Let us face it, those who come here are mostly ex-premies. It is not really many who write a letter in regard to the premies or the people that have no idea about this.

I just think life is to valuable to spend concentrating about negative things and feelings. And believe me, that is my experience

By the way, I will send another tread, and then I will be back in my business. So thanks

Bim

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Date: Sat, Nov 20, 1999 at 12:50:58 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Bim Doubtfire
Subject: One of the stupidest premies I've ever met
Message:
You, you sick fuck, you, the idiot who once 'fell in love' with a five-year old (and no, fella, there is absolutely no justification for that. None.), are about the dumbest I've ever seen here. And that's really saying something.

Here's how real people work. Someone drops in to this 'anti-Maharaji' site and they ask themselves 'who the hell's 'Maharaji' and why do these people hate or disrespect him so?' And because they've got no reason to avoid the answer like you cowardly cult members do, they get it in no time. And then? Then they realize how pathetic it is for grown adults like you to still have even a scintilla of faith in the guy. End of story.

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Date: Sat, Nov 20, 1999 at 13:48:52 (EST)
From: Bim Doubtfire
Email: bim_doubtfire@hotmail.com
To: Jim
Subject: Re: One of the stupidest premies I've ever met
Message:
Dear Jim
I might be very stupid indeed, but I am sorry to say it, but you proved my point.

I disagree with your conclusion. If a sane person came, I think he would like to see the other side, and probably surf into Maharajis pages. Have you been there lately? They are filled with inspiration and positivity. May be he would wonder?

By the way, I will send another tread. You probably would not like that. Here I will answer some of the things you wrote about the other day.
And I would like to point out that I am not sick. What I explained about the feelings I once had as a 14 year old kid, was the gratitude that such feelings never ever came to me again. I did not do anything wrong. OK?
It might cheer you up that from next week, I ll stay out of these pages. Ok?

Best regards

Bim

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Date: Sat, Nov 20, 1999 at 15:10:57 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Bim Doubtfire
Subject: Yep, certainly a fool you are
Message:
I disagree with your conclusion. If a sane person came, I think he would like to see the other side, and probably surf into Maharajis pages. Have you been there lately? They are filled with inspiration and positivity. May be he would wonder?

Oh what an absolutely superficial dummy! Listen, whatever-your-name-is, any 'sane', interested visitor, as you put it, would hear these sordid allegations about Maharaji and would want to know if they were true or not. He might try to get those answers from Maharaji but, as you should know (but probably don't you're so thick), he wouldn't be able to. That, in itself, would say it all. Does it matter that Maharaji's got a bunch of lame, meandering confusion on his site? No.

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Date: Sat, Nov 20, 1999 at 15:36:16 (EST)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Admit it, Bim! You are...
Message:
You are Maharaji!
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Date: Sat, Nov 20, 1999 at 17:41:14 (EST)
From: Bim Doubtfire
Email: bim_doubtfire@hotmail.com
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: Re: Admit it, Bim! You are...
Message:
Dear Roger

Please, dont insult Maharaji. I am 9 hours away from you. Next time I come to LA, I might give you a call and invite you for dinner. OK?

Best regards

Bim

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Date: Sat, Nov 20, 1999 at 02:23:39 (EST)
From: Runamok
Email: None
To: All
Subject: youngold and ock: osho
Message:
I didn't understand exactly where Youngold was at with Rajneesh (also called Osho). I've seen Rajneesh discussed on this forum at length. I am surprised to hear Ock clearly say that he took some strength from Rajneesh in the process of leaving Mirage.

I do detest Rajneesh and consider him one of the only gurus who outdid Mirage in heinous behavior. From the numerous murders his disciples appeared to have been planning in order to control the vote in their Oregon town, to his loud claims to feed and house anyone showing up at his commune (where they were summarily turned away with less publicity), he struck me as uncaring much like Miragey, but BETTER at it.

So yes, the quotes from him (Rajneesh) about honoring vows (i.e., if you still believe it then honor the vows or whatever) and the comparisons of receiving knowledge with marriage are old hat around here. Anyone who has left Miragey has dealt with these issues head-on. I don't mind giving credit where credit is due, but people who burden us with their lives as a throne of worship or divinity are not worth the effort except to debunk, IMO. There are also tales of Rajneesh speaking of Jesus being buried near India (as did Bal Baghwan). Potentially interesting if that sort of thing interests you, but reason to give any kind of credit to the guy? It's common sense or common knowledge. Like dining, the presentation is a lot of it. Do we really want to accept the 'guru' presentation in light of what we know today?

I was overjoyed when Rajneesh's attempts at entry in various countries were refused (wasn't that after being deported from the US?). He died soon after of a heart attack. I wish Miragey's tale could be told so succinctly.

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Date: Sat, Nov 20, 1999 at 14:33:02 (EST)
From: youngold
Email: None
To: Runamok
Subject: Re: youngold and ock: osho
Message:
runamuk.... I was just saying that the concept of re evaluating one's 'vow' based on current feelings was interesting to me. That's all. I have no affection or connection to rajneesh.
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Date: Fri, Nov 19, 1999 at 19:03:38 (EST)
From: old timer
Email: None
To: All
Subject: where are they now?
Message:
Just curious, since i received k in the early days;does anyone know what happened to some of the early premies who helped bring m to the west?I heard that arthur brigham lives in australia but doesn't practice. Also, Bill Patterson has severe mental problems and ended up in a mental institution in south america?Joan Apter-who cares, i'm sure she's bullshitting someone somewhere about something. Bob Mischler-dead.Suzie Bai,John Hand,milky cole,charles cameron....just curious.
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Date: Sat, Nov 20, 1999 at 02:50:21 (EST)
From: Chumbly
Email: None
To: old timer
Subject: Re: where are they now?
Message:
Hi OT,

Suzy Bai's hair turned all white and she shaved it off. She hates all premies and has been very involved in a new line of hair-care products.

Milky Cole had an affair with a famous newscaster.

Charles Cameron has had a number of drinks. His glass-be-game.

Bob Mishler is still dead.

Info on others to follow.

Chumbly

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Date: Sat, Nov 20, 1999 at 02:32:13 (EST)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: None
To: old timer
Subject: Re: where are they now?
Message:
I've got links for:

Joan Apter
Joe Anctil
Charles Cameron
Michael Dettmers

at House of Maharaji Drek

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Date: Sat, Nov 20, 1999 at 01:16:17 (EST)
From: Joy
Email: None
To: old timer
Subject: Re: where are they now?
Message:
Charles Cameron has a web site of his own, it's pretty interesting, though I cannot for the life of me remember the web site address, something to do with glass bead games. Perhaps search for Charles Cameron and see if you can come up with it. I don't think he follows M any more, either, and is married and has a child or two. His sense of humor and poetic license is still intact, and he seems as outrageous as ever!

That's too bad about Bill Patterson, I used to know his mother Virginia pretty well, lived with her in a premie house for a little while, she was very cool. I think she and all her five children had received K, though can't remember any of their names. Some of the Brits might know about Milky, I remember his charming (well, at the time) satsang from the early days in London, he was one of the 'big three' -- Glen, Milky and Mahatma Ashokanand, all sitting up there every single night, with a little lite relief from Prakash Bai occasionally (who defected LONG ago!).

And yes, unfortunately Bob Mishler did die in a helicopter or lite plane crash around 1976, a great loss, he could have really spilled some beans on this website!

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Date: Fri, Nov 19, 1999 at 20:03:44 (EST)
From: Nigel
Email: nigel@redcrow.demon.co.uk
To: old timer
Subject: I remember Bill Patterson
Message:
You have triggered some memories here, ot...

Bill Patterson was the first DLM bigshot I ever head give satsang back when I was an impressionable aspirant (is there another kind?). He was wheeled onto the stage in the Brighton Conference Centre, Sussex, UK, December 9th, 1977 when Marge failed to show. At the time he was Marge's 'Press Secretary' ( and whatever happened with that job vacancy..?) Affluent-looking, media-savvy, nice threads kind of suspicious character who, I think, freaked out a few of us hippy /punk /wastrel types just by being so uncool and materialistic looking.

But I remember vividly two things he said:

The first was, 'The press ask me: 'are you first and foremost a devotee or a press secretary?'

To which BP replied: 'Press secretary'

To which the press rejoindered: 'Aha, so you ARE a devotee. A press secretary would have replied 'Devotee''

Ha ha. D'yer geddit? By not posing as humble, BP persuaded the press he was being humble, (Humilty stinks, BTW). naaah, fergeddit...

And the other memory was, when M asked BP would he devote his life to him, BP said: 'Ok, but if you leave just one crack in the door I will be out through it like a bat out of hell...'

Guess if Bill is having mental problems in South America then Maharaji must have left a crack in the door....

Sorry I can't help with your question, ot.

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Date: Sat, Nov 20, 1999 at 12:08:56 (EST)
From: JW
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: Re: I remember Bill Patterson
Message:
I hadn't heard about Bill Patterson being in a mental institution, but it was confirmed by premies here on the forum that he rejected Maharaji a number of years ago.

I liked Bill, but I always found it unfathomable that he was so one-pointed in his belief in knowledge and dedication to Maharaji, and also that he ALWAYS seemed to be happy. I also remember his mother Virginia and his sister, Jane, was also a very sweet person. I have no idea whether either of them are still premies, but as I said, Bill is not.

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Date: Fri, Nov 19, 1999 at 19:27:22 (EST)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: old timer
Subject: Susie Bai
Message:
I have heard (through this forum) that Susie Bai is living in LA, is happy, and is NOT a follower of Maharaji anymore.

Although I am sure Susie Bai does not remember me, she was one of the people whose satsang influenced me the most. She was also a very kind and accepting person, and I wish her well, wherever she is.

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Date: Fri, Nov 19, 1999 at 17:40:14 (EST)
From: TD
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Cult members prosecuted
Message:
There was some talk here some time ago about the Breatharian cult, and so I thought that some of you would be interested to hear that last night on the news there was a report of two Breatharian members in Melbourne who were arrested for manslaughter because one of their 'charges', ie new member, died while practising their type of 'Knowledge', which is to go without food and water for 7 days in order to reach enlightenment. The two were 'shocked' that they were arrested, but it's coz they did nothing to prevent her deterioration, that they have been charged. Jasmuheen or whatever the leader is called (she with the full fridge), said that 'it shouldn't have happened' blah blah, as it is THE WAY to reach nirvana and many people have successfully done it etc etc. Yeah right. Like how many premies actually practice K all the time...

Anyway, made me think how perhaps now, cult behaviour that is detrimental to the welfare of its members, won't be taken lightly....

Oh yeah, for Aussie readers as well, there is a doco on tonight on SBS called 'Killer Cults' covering the Jap guy, Heaven's Gate, Jonestown and Koresh...

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Date: Sat, Nov 20, 1999 at 08:08:32 (EST)
From: Ned Kelly
Email: None
To: TD
Subject: Re: Cult members prosecuted
Message:
And you may have noticed conspicuosly absent was the object of your paranoia TD.The couple prosecuted actually live in Queensland, a state where regular mental processes of any kind are a rarity and more than likely punishable by law.The woman who died had not taken solids for 19 days.She was living on a 'diet' of orange juice and water.Must have thought she was a jockey or an international model huh?
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Date: Sun, Nov 21, 1999 at 16:49:47 (EST)
From: Nigel
Email: nigel@redcrow.demon.co.uk
To: Ned Kelly
Subject: The point is, Catweasel...
Message:
Cults encourage people to abandon their rational judgement. Cult members take on trust the teachings of a fellow human-being they consider superior to themselves and pretty soon end up behaving strangely. Cult behaviour is the common factor, nothing else.

Have you kissed Maharaji's feet lately? I understand that priceless opportunity came your way not so long ago.

Queensland may or may not be a hell-hole of conservatism but it is irrelevant to the Breatharian deaths.

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Date: Fri, Nov 19, 1999 at 17:44:37 (EST)
From: TD
Email: None
To: TD
Subject: That's Saturday night our time - the doco! (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Fri, Nov 19, 1999 at 18:14:38 (EST)
From: Nigel
Email: nigel@redcrow.demon.co.uk
To: TD
Subject: TD - if you're still logged on...
Message:
Check your mailbox.
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Date: Fri, Nov 19, 1999 at 18:05:59 (EST)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: TD
Subject: Hi TD!
Message:
nt
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Date: Fri, Nov 19, 1999 at 22:28:39 (EST)
From: TD
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: Hi Katie!
Message:
Hi Katie,
Hope all is well with you and Brian.

I just pop on from time to time to check out what's happening...

Love to you both. TD

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Date: Fri, Nov 19, 1999 at 09:11:58 (EST)
From: Bim Doubtfire
Email: bim_doubtfire@hotmail.com
To: All
Subject: Jagdeo and other stuff or staff
Message:
- Where do you really come from?

It has been mentioned that Maharajis organisation is a cult or a sect. One thing I dont understand is:
We needed a religion and tried to make one, Maharaji teared it down.
We needed a sect (club) and tried to make one, Maharaji teared it down.
We needed the security of being cultmembers, Maharaji took that away from us.

And then people on this pages sit here and complain about his organisation being a cult and complain about the 'right' to give satsang was taken away from them. I dont get it:

It is easy to critisise - to do something right is another thing.

People make a number of Maharaji being the 'Ex-lord' Actually I never heard him state that. And when he went down from that throne or pidestall, people freaked out. Why?

Is it not enough if a guy has the ability to show a person something really beutiful inside? And that he has the talent to inspire people to search for other values? I dont get it; what is wrong with that?

I sometimes feel people are mixing things: One thing is Maharaji, Another thing is Knowlegde.
I dont see the reason to mix these things the organisation, the people in it, the premies or whatever? Why mix it at all? Why not take it as it really is?
And if you really want to judge it, in some book one advice was to judge it by its fruits. And then I suppose it means judge it from your own experience what comes out of it, while you use it as it is.

Some people complain about how Maharaji have behaved. May be there are no rules. Or may be there are? Who knows?
From my perspective:
He has a nice house, so have I.
He has more than one car, so have I.
It is told he has been angry sometimes, so have I.
It is told he have fired some people, so have I.
It has been told he has drinken some alcohol. So have I.
It is told he has smoked some sigarettes, so have I.
It is told he have seen some rated movies, so have I.
It is told he had an affair, so had I.
It is told that he has cheated on his taxes, so have IReally? So what? (I dont mean to excuse these 'sins' though)

In my life, every step I have taken has been my choice. I get the fruits, I get the consequenses. It is my priveledge to have that responsibility. Can I really blame someone for the steps I choose to take myself. I dont think so. Even if might be said that every person on this planet in some ways are programmed, I dont think so.

And the Jagdeo business? Will it be taken to court? May be unfortunately not. Just because some of us may be had a religious attitude?

But can you blame Maharaji for that? Did he know about it? Is he to blame?
I `d say, only he knows

But can anyone be blamed for what others did?

I just wonder..

Bim

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Date: Fri, Nov 19, 1999 at 17:16:55 (EST)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Bim Doubtfire
Subject: Bob Mishler - to Bim
Message:
Hi Bim -
You said you considered Bob Mishler to be a friend of yours. I'm just curious as to when you knew him. I'm asking this because I have a close friend who knew Mishler pretty well (they both lived in the Denver ashrams before Montrose) in early to mid 1972. He knows some other people from back then as well.

Take care,
Katie

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Date: Sat, Nov 20, 1999 at 05:12:24 (EST)
From: Bim Doubtfire
Email: bim_doubtfire@hotmail.com
To: Katie
Subject: Re: Bob Mishler - to Bim
Message:
Dear Katie

I knew Bob 74 to 76. It was not like a close friend to me, but I think we were friends in our hearts. I once talked to him, and we had a long and giving conversation. Out of the blue, some months later he helped me in a difficult situation.

Best regards

Bim

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Date: Sat, Nov 20, 1999 at 10:23:08 (EST)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Bim Doubtfire
Subject: Re: Bob Mishler - to Bim
Message:
Hi Bim -
I think that's how my friend felt about Bob Mishler too. (Bob took the time to help my friend once too - at a very difficult time in both their lives.) I never met Bob, although I did see him speak at programs. A lot of people had a negative impression of him, but from what I have heard, he must have been a very good person.

Take care,
Katie

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Date: Fri, Nov 19, 1999 at 14:21:46 (EST)
From: What kind of name is Bim Doubtfire?
Email: None
To: Bim Doubtfire
Subject: Re: Jagdeo and other stuff or staff
Message:
It is like saying: 'since Judas betrayed Jesus, I cannot believe in Jesus!'

If Jesus was informed that Judas was molesting little children and did nothing about it, you'd be damned right not to believe in Jesus. There's substantial evidence that this is exactly what happenned in the Maharaji/Jagdeo affair. Maharaji is bullshit. His lack of action after haveing been informed of Jagdeo's crimes proves it.

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Date: Fri, Nov 19, 1999 at 16:07:31 (EST)
From: Cynthia G.
Email: cynthia@madriver.com
To: Bim Doubtfire
Subject: Pedophiles
Message:
Dear Bim,

Who are you?

PLEASE don't feel sorry for Jagdeo, he knew what he was doing and did it because he liked to abuse children. That is a particular crime that is inexusable. Children are innocent.

Maharaji knew about the sexual abuse of children and did nothing. That makes him complicit in the crime. Yes, there are all kinds of people in the world. But in Maharaji's world, he can do no wrong, because he has placed himself in that position. No one can disagree with m. He is always right, like a 2 year old spoiled brat.

M is a fraud, not the lord. HE DID NOTHING FOR THOSE CHILDREN!!! He sent Jagdeo out of the US to protect Jagdeo and himself (Maharaji) from bad publicity. That is very very immoral behavior.

Above all, he didn't protect the children who were in contact with HIS Mahatma.

There is no excuse for this. You can talk about from here to eternity, there is no excuse!

Best wishes,
Cynthia G.

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Date: Sat, Nov 20, 1999 at 05:43:29 (EST)
From: Bim Doubtfire
Email: bim_doubtfire@hotmail.com
To: Cynthia G.
Subject: Re: Pedophiles
Message:
Dear Cythia

Who are you? What is so important with that, I dont understand. I am a human being. The peak of my career the last 25 within EV / DLM was to operate the VCR at local programs. I dont know if I can call myself a premie. but I admit I aspire to. OK?

I did not write I feel sorry for Jagdeo. May be I do. I wrote I felt sad.
When I was 14 years old, I fell in love with a 5 year old girl. I did not do anything with her, but I had sexual feelings. Such feelings never occurred later in my life. When I read about pedophilic persons, I feel sad, but also grateful that such desires never developed within me.

I think I am very careful about jugding other people. That is based upon some very personal experiences were I was the victim.

What concerns Maharaji, I was lucky enough (or unlucky) not to go into the lord of the unverse thing. I did not understand it. In my life, I have accepted that it is a part of being a human to make mistakes.

Best regards

Bim

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Date: Sat, Nov 20, 1999 at 12:25:17 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Bim Doubtfire
Subject: You are one sick fucker, Bim (falling in love with a five-year old??)
Message:
You've got bigger problems than I thought, Bim. Hopefully, you're not involved in any youth programs at your 3 golf clubs or two yacht clubs (or is it the other way around?). So you felt 'sad', did you? Of course you did! How pathetic...
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Date: Sat, Nov 20, 1999 at 05:52:25 (EST)
From: The Doubter
Email: None
To: Bim Doubtfire
Subject: Bim, you've been here before, haven't you?
Message:
Bim,

Is this really the first time you've posted at the forum?

Haven't you posted some time ago using a different name?

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Date: Sat, Nov 20, 1999 at 07:26:29 (EST)
From: Bim Doubtfire
Email: bim_doubtfire@hotmail.com
To: The Doubter
Subject: Re: Bim, you've been here before, haven't you?
Message:
Dear Doubter

This is the first time I have posted any mail here or at any other forum. I have surfed into your pages 4 or 5 times before. After next week I will not have the time to continue doing this. OK

Best regards

Bim

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Date: Sat, Nov 20, 1999 at 15:30:28 (EST)
From: The Doubter
Email: None
To: Bim Doubtfire
Subject: Bim, how did you find us?
Message:
Bim,

How did you find this site?

When did you first find it?

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Date: Sun, Nov 21, 1999 at 08:37:52 (EST)
From: Bim Doubtfire
Email: bim_doubtfire@hotmail.com
To: The Doubter
Subject: Re: Bim, how did you find us?
Message:
Dear Doubter

When I got internet, I searched for Maharaji. Then I found these pages. I think it is a couple of years ago

Best regards

Bim

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Date: Fri, Nov 19, 1999 at 15:03:29 (EST)
From: Bim Doubtfire
Email: bim_doubtfire@hotmail. com
To: What kind of name is Bim Doubtfire?
Subject: Re: Jagdeo and other stuff or staff
Message:
Hi No Name
Bim Douftfire is just a name. It is not my real name. Ok?

Some people claim Jesus did know Judas would betray him so it is no good argument. However I tried to make a point. Ok?

What Maharaji dod know or did not know or what Jagdeo said to him, I think only he knows.

I assume Maharaji have been informed about it at least now. What would you have done if you were in his shoes. Protect him, try to find the abused children or what.

Best regards

Bim

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Date: Fri, Nov 19, 1999 at 22:31:47 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Bim Doubtfire
Subject: If this were real life you'd be drooling (maybe smell funny too)
Message:
Bim,

Like I said earlier today, you don't deserve a serious response. Your 'questions' are too thoughtless. Care to try again?

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Date: Fri, Nov 19, 1999 at 14:25:47 (EST)
From: The Doubter
Email: None
To: What kind of name is Bim Doubtfire?
Subject: Bim Doubtfire is another name for URL (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Fri, Nov 19, 1999 at 16:00:55 (EST)
From: Ben Lurking
Email: None
To: The Doubter
Subject: Re: Bim Doubtfire is another name for URL (nt)
Message:
Can't be URL, URL said he was leaving this *%$
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Date: Fri, Nov 19, 1999 at 12:04:12 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Bim Doubtfire
Subject: You might not be an idiot -- but you sure do sound like one
Message:
Bim,

There is absolutely no depth to your post. None. Ever heard the word 'superficial'? I'm not exactly sure but I think it means ... oh hell, why pretend I'm some fancy pants expert and fuck this up. I think I'll get out the old Concise Oxford Dictionary (ninth edition).....

superficial: 1 of or ont he surface; lacking depth (a superficial knowledge; superficial wounds). 2 swift or cursory (a superficial examination). 3 apparent but not real (a superficial resemblance). 4 (esp. of a person) having no depth of character or knowledge; trivial; shallow. 5 Brit. Commerce (of a measure) square.

You're square, Bim. Very, very square.

No, seriously, the problem talking with you cult members is that it's just so much work. You don't reach for the truth, you don't dig below the surface. Simply put, Bim, you don't connect the dots. Instead you sit there with those dumb, frozen cult smiles and your thumbs up your ass like Mad Magazine's Alfred E. Neuman saying 'What, me worry?' and leave it for the rest of us to actually consider these matters.

You talk about logic?? How offensive! The truth be known, logic is completely alien to you. You're in no way beholden to it. If logic says you must necessarily go here, you just plunk in the video and go back to Maharaji teletubby land -- that's pre-school and pre-logic. Sure, you feel safe posting anonymously here but if you actually had this conversation in real life you'd twitch, whine and wimper and, before too long, run out of the room. Trust me, I know. I know better than you, even about yourself. How? Experience, Bim. I've talked with enough Maharaji cult members to be able to say without reservation or exaggeration that not a single one can sustain a rational discussion about the cult. It's simply impossible.

So, is it worth it to point out the obvious to you again and again? Depends, I guess. Depends on how much one likes to hear one's self think. That has a value indeed but that is, in the end, the only real purpose in talking with you clowns. Why? Well, how many times do I have to tell you? Because, Bim, you are in a cult. You don't think for yourself. You've forgotten how.

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Date: Fri, Nov 19, 1999 at 15:16:05 (EST)
From: Bim Doubtfire
Email: bim-doubtfire@hotmail.com
To: Jim
Subject: Re: You might not be an idiot -- but you sure do sound like one
Message:
Dear Jim

Please allow me to come back to some of those things you say here and in your next mail, in another tread. I would be grateful if you stic to the tread or to what I write. I am of no importance. I will print out what you write and try to understand it. Ok?

If I am such an idiot, proving for everyone that I am a cultmember, and that I am square, I think you should rejoice and not go ballistic.

Best regards

Bim

Ps. The only membership I am aware of I have, is 3 for golf and 2 for sailing clubs

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Date: Fri, Nov 19, 1999 at 15:37:48 (EST)
From: who knows
Email: None
To: Bim Doubtfire
Subject: Bim, meet Jim
Message:
Hi Bim,
In case you are new to this forum, just a word of caution: Jim is the official pitbull around here. and he loves getting fresh meat. I can already predict that you will be thorned to pieces, you are no match. don't get offended, but don't hold your breath hoping to satsang his brains out either
Have a nice day
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Date: Sat, Nov 20, 1999 at 19:55:01 (EST)
From: Ned Kelly
Email: Pop goes the......
To: who knows
Subject: Re:Meet Jim, The little boy
Message:
And really it's a total waste of time communicating with our legal moron [Oxymoron].Most thinking people have put him out with the trash long ago. The theory is that he was deprived of maternal succour as a babe due to a new arrival, or a screwed up parent.Therefore he worked out that the only way to maintain attention from his peers was to attack them and belittle them. That way there was more attention for him! Sad part is that he's not far off being an 'older person' and in this International Year of the Elderly, he's STILL doing it!
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Date: Sat, Nov 20, 1999 at 20:34:39 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Ned Kelly
Subject: So another cult coward with a bad sense of humour -- yawn (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Sun, Nov 21, 1999 at 07:17:14 (EST)
From: Felix and Fritz the Cats
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Re: So another obserant soul has picked me for what I am....A BORE
Message:
well Jim we would definitely be one up on you.You have the humour of a blind boil....nothing funny about you, all pain,fullof poison right to your unfathomable and sickly core......Cheers toyou Jim the darkest foulest unhappy soul to grace these pages...........Catpeople
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Date: Sun, Nov 21, 1999 at 20:05:58 (EST)
From: You Louse, You Wease
Email: bongo@gerry.cum
To: The cattery
Subject: You'de steal flies from a blind spyder...
Message:
You have the humour of a blind boil....

Now that's unconscionable! You've crossed a line here buster, and I demand a retraction on behalf of the Ex-premie Defense League!

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Date: Tues, Nov 23, 1999 at 19:58:13 (EST)
From: Catweasel
Email: Only Fat Ones
To: You Louse, You Wease
Subject: Re: You'de steal flies from a blind spyder...
Message:
How about just a nasty pimple??
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Date: Wed, Nov 24, 1999 at 18:32:26 (EST)
From: howard fine
Email: None
To: Catweasel
Subject: Re: You'de steal flies from a blind spyder...
Message:
OK as long as it's not on M's ass
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Date: Fri, Nov 19, 1999 at 18:26:50 (EST)
From: Nigel
Email: nigel@redcrow.demon.co.uk
To: who knows
Subject: Meet 'who knows' - one more premie sniper in a mask
Message:
Jim is confrontative but states his case clearly. We know who he is. Where he is. What he stands for and believes in. Asks straight questions, expects straight answers. And why not? It is an easy task any four-year-old could manage. It is my preferred approach. The trouble is, trying to talk rationally with premies who wriggle, squirm, bend semantics into strange new shapes to do whatever it takes to avoid criticising the hamster can get a person a little mad sometimes. Which all TOO often, sad to say, results in that ole devil called anger, which 'robs us of eternal life / takes awa - ay our heavenly life..' (Had me eternal life robbed that many times I am thinking of complaining to the council...)

You, ' wk', hurl abuse from behind a mask of anonymity. (You could be Maharaji, for all I know.) You discuss nothing. You just insult - which wouldn't be so bad if you backed up your insults with substance a person could at least respond to. You sound like Deputy Dog. Are you Deputy Dog? (not that I care)

Bim insults in the passive-aggressive style. Hostility gift-wrapped in a flimsy veil of courtesy and 'curiosity'. If Bim really wants to 'walk a mile in someone else's shoes' (which is NOT an old Indian saying, BTW) he should read the Journey's section. He can walk the mile vicariously then reconsider his premature judgements / ejaculations re. the exes here.

Bim is ruder than Jim, IMNAAHO

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Date: Sat, Nov 20, 1999 at 16:52:48 (EST)
From: bill
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: Re: Meet 'who knows' - one more premie sniper in a mask
Message:
Hi Nigel, what is the rest of -in my not a a Humble Opinion
?
As for bim sala bim, -WE had to be dragged kicking and
screaming away from our religious and cult creations-
sheesh!
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Date: Mon, Nov 22, 1999 at 13:03:36 (EST)
From: nigel
Email: nigel@redcrow.demon.co.uk
To: bill
Subject: IMNAAHO
Message:
'In my not at all humble opinion!'
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Date: Fri, Nov 19, 1999 at 10:54:24 (EST)
From: Charlie
Email: None
To: Bim Doubtfire
Subject: Re: Jagdeo and other stuff or staff
Message:
Bim,

fisrt off I think you're a faker. This broken accent that you are writing with was not so evedent in your earlier posts.


I dont see the reason to mix these things the organisation, the people in it, the premies or whatever? Why mix it at
all? Why not take it as it really is?

When I got into M&K I believed in an ideal that Maharaji would bring UNITY to the worl. We were always hearing satsang about how in the world everthing is fragmented and there's this duality etc. etc. In Maharaji there was the promise of a union of all things in ONE energy. The Holy Name, remember. You see I still see it that way. It's one big rotten lump and you're in there with it swirling around my dear.

You list his 'sins' and compare them to your own. So you should understand that as a sinner who recognises your imperfection you don't tell people how to best live their lives. Maharaji does not recognise his imperefection so has the arrogance to tell others how to live. What a prick!

You must be working round the clock on this page Bim old chap. Is somebody paying you?

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Date: Fri, Nov 19, 1999 at 12:02:31 (EST)
From: Bim Doubtfire
Email: bim_doubtfire@hotmail.com
To: Charlie
Subject: Re: Jagdeo and other stuff or staff
Message:
Dear Charlie
I am not a faker. I have my own business, but this week I have been in the process of waiting. Therefore I came to these pages. In my opinion, Maharaji always had one message: What you are looking for, is inside you. In satsangs premies had a lot of other messages. I dont think it is fair to mix up these things.
Otherwise I know nothing more than you and nobody pays me

Best regards

Bim

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Date: Fri, Nov 19, 1999 at 10:38:13 (EST)
From: Peter Howie
Email: None
To: Bim Doubtfire
Subject: Re: More bloody fruits
Message:
Dear Bim.

What drives you to want to be a peace giver on this forum? Come on cough up. Why do you want to act like oil on water? Are we the wild west that needs the prostletising love bringing missionaries?

As for fruit could you please try and get with that not only does he have a big car( as do you) house (as do you ) etc, but he also has his very own omline anti-forum which I don't think you or I have. We are part of the fruit. What goes on here in this forum is one of many consequences of his work in the world. Yes we all contribute, blah,blah,blah - but he either creates in this world or he doesn't. Now if he doesn't then this discussion is moot because he is inneffectual and we must be talking about someone else. But he is a creative force in this world and it is clearly not all good. And do you want proof that it is not all good. Well simply read this forum - we are the proof. Our anger, our disenchantment, our various human responses to him and what he has created is part of that proof.

Cheers

Peter Howie

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Date: Sat, Nov 20, 1999 at 04:48:02 (EST)
From: I know who you really were
Email: None
To: Peter Howie
Subject: Re: More bloody fruits
Message:
What gives you the right to wade in Peter? You were always such a wimp....I think your nickname must have been 'Carpet'.....you know....Walk all over me!
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Date: Sun, Nov 21, 1999 at 18:02:47 (EST)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Catweasel
Subject: Hey, leave the guy alone
Message:
[I assume I'm addressing Mr. Catweasel here (correct me if I'm wrong, please!).]

Peter has the right to post here because he's an ex-premie, not to mention a human being. Furthermore, I have always found his posts to be honest, thoughtful, and thought-provoking. I respect his openness and civility.

I don't blame him for not answering your posts attacking him - I wouldn't answer them either if they were addressed to me. What's the point?

If you and I knew each other in the 'real world', I don't doubt that we could find many personal things to pick on each other about on this forum or elsewhere. Actually, I sometimes cringe because I know that there are people who post here that knew me when I was a premie, and I really didn't like who I was back then.

If you've got a personal problem with Peter, then why don't you e-mail him or talk to him face-to-face? I don't feel that personal attacks on a public forum are justified.

Sincerely,
Katie

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Date: Sat, Nov 20, 1999 at 21:25:39 (EST)
From: Mr D
Email: None
To: I know who you really were
Subject: Truly a garland of hearts
Message:
An anonymous person above wrote: 'You were always such a wimp....I think your nickname must have been 'Carpet'.....you know....Walk all over me!'

Ah yes, it all comes back to me now - those lovely warm hearted premies, those wonderful, compassionate people. What a beautiful garland did Maharaji make to wrap around his divine neck. A garland of hearts, a garland of kindness and love. 'We're all one heart, loving our Lord.'

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Date: Sun, Nov 21, 1999 at 07:23:18 (EST)
From: Cubby and Annette Funicello
Email: None
To: Mr D
Subject: Re: Truly a garland of hearts
Message:
Yeah and there was Adventureland ,Frontierland and the Mickey Mouse club too
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Date: Sat, Nov 20, 1999 at 12:19:09 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: I know who you really were
Subject: At least he's not afraid to use his own name, asshole
Message:
This kind of gross hypocrisy is what gives anonymity a bad name, jerkface.
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Date: Sat, Nov 20, 1999 at 20:10:32 (EST)
From: Nemisis
Email: Peter,you've been sucked in here
To: Jim
Subject: He's afraid ,and He shouldn't be
Message:
You never have to use yours Jim. There's only one poster here as sick and nasty as you are my friend. In fact I'm very glad you post/abuse here......You show lurkers the lowest common denominator available on this site....Very un-attractive...You and Nigel do a great disservice to the many rational and intelligent people who post here. Nigel admits to a bad temper...What's your excuse?
P.s Peter Howie Knows who I am....thats why he never answers. The last time he attended [as an Ex] he looked me right in the eye. He knew I knew why he was there.He also knows I could have sent him packing....Funny though, he never showed up again that time .
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Date: Sat, Nov 20, 1999 at 20:32:27 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Nemisis
Subject: So what's your excuse?
Message:
Very funny. You're afraid to post under your own name but you've got something to say about Peter's resolve to meet confrontation head-on? I'm really beginning to wonder if there isn't some sort of natural screening process at play here: only the stupider ones stayed in the cult this long. What do you think?
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Date: Mon, Nov 22, 1999 at 10:54:30 (EST)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Re: So what's your excuse?
Message:
I'm really beginning to wonder if there isn't some sort of natural screening process at play here: only the stupider ones stayed in the cult this long. What do you think?

You know, I was thinking this too, except for the fact that I left within a years or so and that would make me damn near a geneius, er genus, uh, genias , ah a vury vury smart guy.

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Date: Sun, Nov 21, 1999 at 07:28:22 (EST)
From: Ned Kelly
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Re: So what's your excuse?
Message:
No ,some stayed , some left. You are a real dreamer are'nt you Jim. But it's only nightmares!
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Date: Sat, Nov 20, 1999 at 07:32:27 (EST)
From: Bim Doubtfire
Email: bim_doubtfire@hotmail.com
To: I know who you really were
Subject: Re: More bloody fruits
Message:
Dear No name

I do not know the meaning of wade in Peter? What is a wimp?

The only nickname I had when I was a kid, was Bim

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Date: Sat, Nov 20, 1999 at 08:22:59 (EST)
From: The Worlds most Recognisable Brand....No Name !!!
Email: Canberra , Brisbane,then where??
To: Bim Doubtfire
Subject: Re: More bloody fruits
Message:
Dear Bim
Peter always had a propensity to be 'the good guy' and be first to volunteer for other peoples fantasies. I distinctly remember Peter looking down his nose at me a couple of times ,when I hadn't followed the agya of the local little caesar.No independence, no discernment. Now he's still desperate to be one of the gang , one of the good guys. A wimp is someone who hasn't the courage of their convictions.Peter painted. All the good boys painted.
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Date: Fri, Nov 19, 1999 at 11:28:52 (EST)
From: Bim Doubtfire
Email: bim_doubtfire@hotmail.com
To: Peter Howie
Subject: Re: More bloody fruits
Message:
Dear Peter

As a person I am concerned about righousness and I hate injustice. I am also curious.

These days I have been in the process of waiting for something and I hadd some spare time. I suppose thats why I wrote, and I dont mean to offend you.

As far as I understand a forum, it is a by definition a place where anybody can express their thoughts. If only one way of thinging happens, I suppose a forum slowly will die. It will loose its freshness and specific thoughtpatterns, like in stasangs will be created. And I am not sure that is healthy.

By the way I have read a lot of pages. I am also a person who has doubts, but I suppose I only believe what I see.

Best regards

Bim

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Date: Fri, Nov 19, 1999 at 10:05:30 (EST)
From: Ben Lurking
Email: None
To: Bim Doubtfire
Subject: Re: Jagdeo and other stuff or staff
Message:
You are saying he is human, do you also claim to be lord?
When he claimed he was lord and then changed his mind was he confused?
Maybe we are mistaken but when he told us he was lord we believed him. He is a scam artist, I am sorry you are being had. How many disscusion groups does EV have for premies online? Why do premies complain about what we talk about when the could be in there own unmoderated forum. Why does an unmoderated forum for premies, supported by EV not exist? The Problem with Jagdeo is M knew about it and DID NOTHING ABOUT IT THEREBY EXPOSING OTHER PREMIES CHILDREN TO THE DANGER.
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Date: Fri, Nov 19, 1999 at 11:53:14 (EST)
From: Bim Doubtfire
Email: bim_doubtfire@hotmail.com
To: Ben Lurking
Subject: Re: Jagdeo and other stuff or staff
Message:
Dear Ben
I do not know the answer to your questions. My responsibility for my self is to be true to me. This means trying to be honest and try to fulfill my life.

Best regards

Bim

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Date: Sat, Nov 20, 1999 at 23:32:29 (EST)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Bim Doubtfire
Subject: Re: Jagdeo and other stuff or staff
Message:
I followed this thread this far without posting but now I have to ask you if your philosophy of fulfillment includes responsibility to others. Do we all operate in a vacuum or are we responsible for the weaker and more innocent among us, namely children? Did you ever think about this kind of stuff before?...oh never mind. Why did I even get sucked into this in the first place. Look, I don't come here much and probably won't follow whether you have any kind of awakening intellectually by I advise you STRONGLY to read some books on ethics and society. Even business ethics,,,

I agree with someone who said they think you are having us on.....

Helen

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Date: Fri, Nov 19, 1999 at 12:15:28 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Bim Doubtfire
Subject: Wow! Did you really say what I thought you just said?
Message:
Did you actually wave the 'truth' flag even as you ran for the nearest sand dune to hide behind and shove your head into? Too fucking much. You guys are hilarious. I wish I had a whole aquarium of cult members. Like sea monkeys or something.

Bim, you fool, here's some more for you to not be able to properly comment on:

1) 'You look at Christ, for instance. And he came and was Perfect Master. According to the belief, he had enough power that after he was crucified, he came back. So, you think twice about this and you figure, if somebody has got a power -- and it was incredible as to be able to to be crucified and them come back again -- you can definitely figure out that he must ahve the power to sort of take the whole Earth and jiggle it once in a plastic bag. Give it a little twist, all us teensy-weensy things go falling into this palstic bag. He opens it up and says, 'Listen, you thing in there. Realize the purpose of your life, aim of your life. This is it. Period.'

*****

2)Q - To whom should we give our devotion?

A - Guru.

Q - Shouldn't we give our devotion to God?

A - What is God?

Q - Well, Guru is a personification of God in this Earth, right?

A - I told you yesterday: Who is Guru? The highest manifestation of God is Guru. So when Guru is here, God is here, to whom will you give your devotion? **** When God has come here, then what is the need to give devotion to God there?

*****

3) The Lord Himself reincarnates, reincarnates, reincarnates Himself for the very purpose of saving us. And we do not even realize who gave us the authority to refuse Him! Who are we anyway? From which field do we come that we can reject, that we can refuse, that we can deny our Lord? This is something that
I cannot answer. And we do it every time!. Because we have got a stupid ego. ..... We just don't know that we are His puppets.

***[a lot of stuff about how he could suck all the atmosphere away, etc.]

4) So when Lord comes to us, accept Him. And Lord is here. He has always been here. How can we make a statment, 'The Lord is gone', and then turn aroudn and say, 'Lord is omnipresent'? We are contradicting ourselves. He has always been here. He has always been saving us, but it's us who pull out of His shelter.

*******

5) What is it? Something for people to understand: that there is a personality like God. Adn without him we are just pieces of junk, nothing else. And it's like, somebody has to really look up to it, you know. It's like, God is THERE, all the time. But for a person to see Him and underwstand Him, anyway he ahs to look UP to Him. But it's like, God is giving us all these indications of His presence. You know? If he does...

Look. The thing is, if somebody goes and does soemthing good, he will go and goof around all Arizona probably, saying ' I have done something good.' But if he does something bad, and he blows it [ed. like predicting the dawning of the millenium], you know, it means he just really blew it. Then he is going to blame it on somebody else; not on himself. So if God does something good for people, people will never understand it. People don't!

*****

6) 'Why do we have this human body? To know this, we will have to take the shelter of Guru Maharja Ji. Guru Maharj Ji knows all. Guru Maharaji is Brahma (creator). Guru Maharaji is Vishnu (Operator). Guru Maharjai is Shiva (Destoryer of illusion and ego). And above all, Guru Mahraji is the Supremest Lord in person before us.'

******

7) Who is Guru? The highest manifestation of God is Guru. So when Guru is here, God is here, to whom will you give your devotion?

******

8)Guru Maharj Ji knows all. Guru Maharaji is Brahma (creator). Guru Maharaji is Vishnu (Operator). Guru Maharjai is Shiva (Destoryer of illusion and ego). And above all, Guru Mahraji is the Supremest Lord in person before us.

*******

9) I have come so powerful. I have come for the world. Whenever the great come,the worldly oppose them. Again I have come and you are not listening. Every ear should hear that the saviour of humanity has come. There should be no chance for anyone to say that they haven't heard of Guru Maharaj Ji. Those who have come to me are already saved. Now its your duty to save others. Shout it on the streets. Why be shy?

******

10) When human beings forget the religion of humanity, the Supreme Lord incarnates. He takes a body and comes on this earth ......

When human beings forget this one way, then our Lord, who is the Lord of the whole universe, comes in human body to give us practical Knowlege, ....

But, most ironically, we don't appreciate the Lord when He comes in His human body on this earth.

Similarly, a Satguru, a Perfect Master, a Supreme Lord who is existing in the present time, can give you the practical Knowledge of the real thing...

So God Himself comes to give practical Knowledge of His divinity, of His inner self, which is self-effulgent light, eternal light, all-pervading light. **** And the Supreme Master, the Satguru, gives practical Knowledge of that light, irrespective of caste, creed, color, religion or sex, to those human individuals who bow before him with reverence, with love and with faith.
11)Just see, today this word 'guru' has become a ridiculous term, a sort of a joke and people do not know what is a 'guru'. When I fly a plane in India, I often listen to the radio in the cockpit. There are talks going on between various pilots in the vicinity. Somebody would address: ''Well Guru, how are you?' Because they do not know the true meaning and implications. They don't understand the glory of a guru and Master. Because they have forgotten altogether. They have made such pseudo-guru who have put the whole system to disrepute. For instance, in schools they don't know the correct meaning of a couplet like:

The radiance radiated from my beloved is of suds an amazing hue ...
They say, 'oh yes, because Kabir saw a sort of redness...'

But what sort of redness was it? Such so-called gurus have marred the reputation of this institution. It has been ruined. Actually the guru is such a personality about whom it is said:

>i> I bow down to the lotusfeet of my Guru Maharaji, who is the ocean of mercy and is actually Hari (God) himself in human form,
And whose words are like sunbeams to disperse the accumulated darkness of gross ignorance.

So Tulsidas says that he bows down to such a Guru Maharaji, the Master, who is really Hari (Supreme Power) in the form of man. So the main thing to understand here is that he bows down to the feet of that guru whose utterances, whose expressions are able to illuminate. And what is that which is illuminated by his words? It is the heart which is illuminated. His words are able to sever and dispel the spidery web of illusion, infatuation and ignorance. This I have seen myself and realized in my own heart. Yes, in my heart!

12) And so premies, the Perfect Master comes, and he comes in the human body. I mean, he doesn’t have to. All he has to do is have a body that’s as huge as the world – and even bigger, as the universe – and then pick up the whole world on his little finger and say, ‘You guys want to live, or should I blow you away ?’ He could do that, because we call him Almighty. And if we call him Almighty, it’s a jazz for him to do this. It wouldn’t take him anything. Because he’s perfect. And he could just very well do that and say, ‘Look. If you don’t realize this Knowledge, all I’m going to do is – boomp ! – and you are never going to know what hit you’. But he doesn’t say that.

Why? He bears up with everything in this world. Look at us humans; look at the people of this world. Every time he comes, they say, ‘Forget it, he is not the one; he can’t be the one. He doesn’t have Knowledge. This is some crazy thing.’ And I mean, if really this ever happened, that the Almighty, the All Perfect, just picked up the whole world in his hand and said, ‘Should I kick you?’….
He doesn’t have to go to any person and say, ‘Should I kick you ?’ If he says, ‘Should I kick your world ?’ you’d never know what hit you, and you are going to fly somewhere else. But he doesn’t. And it’s really beautiful.

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Date: Fri, Nov 19, 1999 at 14:53:42 (EST)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Jim types that in from memory!
Message:
Bim or Latka,

What are they gonna say about him? What are they gonna say? That he was a wise man? That he was a kind man? That he had plans? That he had wisdom? Bullshit man!

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Date: Fri, Nov 19, 1999 at 22:04:16 (EST)
From: H&R
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: The fat lady sang?nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Fri, Nov 19, 1999 at 08:57:40 (EST)
From: Enough
Email: None
To: All
Subject: The Greatest Magician
Message:
Hi Everyone,

Does anyone out there have a copy of this satsang. M delivered it at a Guru Puja in Miami Beach in late 70's.

It was layed on us on a Saturday evening, after we had spent the day in line to kiss his lotus feet. M wore an all white suit.

If anyone has this, a couple of excerpts would be nice.

NOTE to those who don't know: Guru Puja means worship of guru...

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Date: Fri, Nov 19, 1999 at 18:22:01 (EST)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: Enough
Subject: Re: The Greatest Magician
Message:
Dear Enough,
The Greatest Magician is David Blaine, not M!!!
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Fri, Nov 19, 1999 at 19:02:10 (EST)
From: Enough
Email: None
To: Robyn
Subject: Yes, Robyn ! (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Fri, Nov 19, 1999 at 16:12:23 (EST)
From: Gregg, Who Kissed the Feet
Email: None
To: Enough
Subject: Re: The Greatest Magician
Message:
Sure, I remember it. It went like this:

'Guru Maharaj Ji is the greatest magician. Do you know why? Because he can take what is so dark, so dingy, so clouded over and dirty and turn it into the most fabulous, cleanest, most wonderful thing. And this is why we love Guru Maharaj Ji. He is the one who has done this thing for us. He has taken our lives, which were tangled up and confused, like an old ball of string which has been under the couch forever, and straightened it out, cleaned it up, and knitted it into a wonderful sweater for us, a sweater of love. Guru Maharaj Ji is the Master Knitter, and He picks our nits and louses from the hair of a dog rooting for a truffle, because some pigs are really dogs, like my jet, for example, which can go really really fast.'

I didn't take notes, so I may have gotten a few of the words wrong, but that was basically it. You really had to be there, and you were, and now you're not, so...why the hell would you want a copy of that drivel, anyway?

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Date: Fri, Nov 19, 1999 at 16:26:24 (EST)
From: Enough
Email: None
To: Gregg, Who Kissed the Feet
Subject: This is why
Message:
One of the functions of this site, as I see it anyway, is to provide information to people. I suspect that there are many more lurkers than posters.

Many people may visit us to find an alternate opinion about M. IMO, pointing out that he once portrayed himself as Lord, God or whatever strange shit he layed on us, is very important. This might help someone to not be an idiot like we were. Got it!!

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Date: Sat, Nov 20, 1999 at 16:56:07 (EST)
From: archive
Email: None
To: Enough
Subject: Re: This is why
Message:
Sure, just be patient.
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Date: Fri, Nov 19, 1999 at 02:13:10 (EST)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Bim Doubtfire - Sounds fake to me
Message:
Bim, old buddy, I just read one of your posts where you give us some of your country's wise sayings.

You know, unless you give us better evidence that English is a second language to you and something about your country I'm going to have to jump to a paranoid conclusion and say that you're a phony.

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Date: Fri, Nov 19, 1999 at 04:25:17 (EST)
From: Bim Doubtfire
Email: bim_doubtfire@hotmail.com
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: Re: Bim Doubtfire - Sounds fake to me
Message:
Dear Roger
The saying I quoted, was something I heard in my native language. It goes like this in English: 'If you dig in shit, the only thing you will get is shit on your hands'
There would be poor communication to write it in my own language:

Believe it or not, I am a human being, belonging to no sect.

If you are paranoia, what can I do about that. But if you read through my mails, you might guess what country I come from. (I dont understand the importance of this though)

Best regards

Bim

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Date: Fri, Nov 19, 1999 at 04:59:21 (EST)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: None
To: Bim Doubtfire
Subject: Re: Bim Doubtfire - Sounds fake to me
Message:
Well, Bim, I'll apologize if I'm wrong as to whether you are real or not. It is much easy to come here and write mails and sound like homey to make us all be fools and have big laugh with your friends at taxi garage in New York City. Yet, some of your sentence structures reveal a surprisingly good command with English.

I'll be watching you. Remember that song? That French singer, Le Sting.

Again, if I'm wrong I will apologize and when you are in the L.A. area I'll take you to dinner at Spagos.

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Date: Fri, Nov 19, 1999 at 09:14:38 (EST)
From: Bim Doubtfire
Email: bim_doubtfire@hotmail.com
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: Re: Bim Doubtfire - Sounds fake to me
Message:
Dear Roger
Thanks
Best regards
Bim
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Date: Fri, Nov 19, 1999 at 14:55:31 (EST)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: None
To: Bim Doubtfire
Subject: And if you're lying...
Message:
Then you take me to Spagos on your the Boss's credit card!

No, Bim, I'm not buying your little game. You've played this one on us before.

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Date: Thurs, Nov 18, 1999 at 21:37:55 (EST)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: All
Subject: November 18 -- Jonestown Anniversar
Message:
All: Today is the 21st anniversary of the mass suicide at Jonestown. 914 people died there. Please remember their spirits in your thoughts.

Marianne

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Date: Fri, Nov 19, 1999 at 08:09:15 (EST)
From: Cynthia G.
Email: cynthia@madriver.com
To: Marianne
Subject: Re: November 18 -- Jonestown Anniversar
Message:
Dear Marianne,

Thanks for the reminder.

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Date: Sun, Nov 21, 1999 at 00:48:03 (EST)
From: bb
Email: None
To: Cynthia G.
Subject: Thats the wrong date.
Message:
I remember that the news about jonestown came out
while we were at a hans jayanti.
SO, I say it was november 8 NOT 18.
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Date: Mon, Nov 22, 1999 at 00:05:36 (EST)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: bb
Subject: You are wrong, bb
Message:
Bill: You are wrong. There's always a memorial service in Oakland on the anniversay. I talk to some of the former PT members on the 18th every year. It's on the local news in the Bay Area. I'm positive about it.

Marianne

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Date: Thurs, Nov 18, 1999 at 19:58:12 (EST)
From: trader
Email: None
To: All
Subject: alan imbarrato
Message:
JW- yes i think i remember you - after andy harris, before david horseford. Re: imbarrato, i heard he got really pissed at m, told him off and left. Supposedly he lives in southern cal. and has been working on some sort of motivational program designed to enhance your professional performance-sort of a tony robbins type thing, fairly psychological in nature. He still hates m, but it would be interesting to get his perspective on things from that era, because 1)he was a pretty smart guy, 2)he and prouty and those instructors knew everything about everyone, and 3)he was in on a lot of the heavy private satsangs from m.His perspective would be quite illuminating I believe. I think he stays in touch with Teddy Tannenbaum, who lives in southern cal, but doesn't come around. I wonder if he was in that famous satsang at the res. in which m told rajaji to tell the instructors who he was. Supposedly Rajaji told them that m was not only the lord but that those people in that room would actually rule the planet;they would be the literal kings and queens of specific countries in the world. He wasn't kidding, he said, and that was their reward for staying loyal to m.
One time john hampton said that he was rajaji's personal valet for a number of months. According to hampton, raja ji's lifestyle was not only not spiritual, but actually quite decadent, and he never meditated. Hampton asked m why this was, or how it could be, and M replied that Raja Ji had supreme faith, and that would get him through.I guess the decadent lifestyle was one of those red flags we would see and buy a bullshit story about, while we put it into the 'grace' or 'lila' or 'divine test' category because somewhere inside us we knew it was all bullshit but had to justify it in some way or another. Sure seems wierd now, doesn't it?
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Date: Thurs, Nov 18, 1999 at 23:59:08 (EST)
From: Runamok
Email: None
To: trader
Subject: Re: alan imbarrato
Message:
I remember hearing some of that stuff way back when. The thing about raj having faith and seems like him saying that he never meditated. I also remember a well circulated story that Rennie Davis would rule the world. The things that we bought into! Like buying the Brooklyn Bridge for crying outloud.
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Date: Thurs, Nov 18, 1999 at 19:35:55 (EST)
From: trader
Email: None
To: All
Subject: ashram recruiting
Message:
I remember alan imbarrato-god, was he a wierd, hateful intense man. An ex est trainer whose specialty was confronting people (In est he would have been known as an 'ESTHOLE') he loved to bother people and recruit them for the ashram. It sure would be interesting to get his perspective on some of these things. Also, some of the things he saw m say and do would be very interesting.
Anyway, he told this friend of mine that he had to surrender to m and the only way he could do it was by moving in the ashram.They got in this arguement about whether or not moving in the ashram meant you were really surrendered. Imbarrato says that if you move in the ashram, m will move you around in this mystical sort of fashion. Whatever is best for you will suddenly appear, or manifest, as they used to say. M will magically move you around the organization and the country, by having ashram coordinators (who are surrendered to M) tell you where to go. The premie says he doesn't believe this. He says if the ashram coordinator tells you to do something, that's all it is-one premie telling another premie what to do, not some divine, mystical direction from m. Imbarrato tells the guy he's confused, and asks him to go to this ashram retreat where he might get some 'clarity' on the issue, and then join the ashram.
So, the guy goes to the ashram retreat at some college in New England.On the first morning he goes down to the cafeteria to get some breakfast and mistakenly sits down at a table with all of the ashram coordinators. He didn't know they were coordinators-they didn't know he wasn't even in the ashram. The coordinators assume he's one of them and start talking shop about the premies in the ashram, about how wierd or sick some of them are. They start swapping premies from ashram to ashram, trading them like they were baseball cards.I'll take the crazy guy if you take the sister with candida. If you take the gay sister in your ashram, I'll take the sister who never works. We'll give you a nice guy who runs the video projector to get him away from his crazy mother who wants to deprogram him, if you give us a good house painter for our company. This goes on and on, with these arrogant idiots trading premies, trying to make it look like it's all m's direction. The guy is laughing his head off, but trying not to show it, as these guys are totally proving his point.At one point the coordinators trade one guy out of Philly to Conn-he can run the video projector, so they decide that they will make it look like a promotion to him, so they say that they will call him the 'Communication Director' in the Conn. comunity. Meanwhile, the coordinators figure out this guy isn't one of them, and politeley ask him to leave the table, as this is 'for their ears only'. The guy leaves, but is laughing so hard to himself he figures that the whole trip was worth it just for the comic relief,plus the fact that they played their hand and showed him how it's really done.
End of Story:
The guy sees the 'video' premie (New Commnuications Director). goes up to him and says that he has a feeling that the premie will have a sudden new service advancement and will be moved to New England in the near future. Sure enough, it's announced at the next satsang-the video premie never figured it out, I guess he chalked it up to grace. Also, he goes back to Imbarrato and tells him the story about the breakfast table 'trading club'. Imbarrato, reaching deep inside for the party line, responds that the premie only saw what he wanted to see, and that if a pickpocket meets a saint, he only sees his pockets.
Now, that's a good story!
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Date: Fri, Nov 19, 1999 at 01:44:51 (EST)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: None
To: trader
Subject: ***Best of Forum*** SURRENDER!
Message:
***Best of Forum***

That's a great story. Recently on the Internet I read that prison directors do the same thing with their problem prisoners - they trade 'em around. Howevever, the directors need to be honest in their description of just how much of a problem a prisoner is otherwise the directors will get hip and refuse to trade.

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Date: Thurs, Nov 18, 1999 at 19:01:08 (EST)
From: charly chaplin
Email: None
To: All
Subject: c.c.complex
Message:
Has anyone heard of the charly chaplin complex?It's a term used by some therapists to refer to someone with a narcisistic personality;someone that has a constant need to be worshipped.When people figure him out, he moves on to new people who will keep up the worship game.
Supposedly Charly Chaplin had lots of young girlfriends, usually about 12-16 years old. They would idolize and worship him, he would use them, and when they would see through him, he would discard them. Once they got to be about 16 years old, they could see him for what he was, and when they noticed some of the darker things about him that didn't add up,they would question him, and he would then get rid of them. It's known as the charly chaplin complex-does this remind anyone of someone we know?
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Date: Fri, Nov 19, 1999 at 01:11:07 (EST)
From: Groucho
Email: None
To: charly chaplin
Subject: Re: c.c.complex
Message:
Please don't give a true artist like Chaplin such a bad name by comparing him to you know who.
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Date: Fri, Nov 19, 1999 at 08:18:14 (EST)
From: Cynthia G.
Email: cynthia@madriver.com
To: Groucho
Subject: Sex Offenders
Message:
To the above poster:

Charlie Chaplin didn't 'fool' around with young girls. He raped them! I don't give any sex offender credibility because they happen to be an 'artist.'

Best Wishes,
Cynthia

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Date: Fri, Nov 19, 1999 at 09:39:50 (EST)
From: Don't mess with Charlie please
Email: None
To: Cynthia G.
Subject: Re: Sex Offenders
Message:
Excuse me, but he didn't rape them. He married them.
The only paternity suit he encountered was for a child that wasn't even his, as proven by blood tests.
They were just trying to get at his money.
Yours truly,
Charlie fan
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Date: Fri, Nov 19, 1999 at 18:51:47 (EST)
From: Cynthia G.
Email: cynthia@madriver.com
To: He Married Children
Subject: Re: Charlie Chaplin
Message:
Excuse me,

But things might have been viewed differently back then, but it doesn't excuse a grown man, who is in a position of power or celebrity to exploit young girls. Paternity suit or not, he was into young girls. That's not okay.

IMO no double standard should be set for Jagdeo vs. Charlie Chaplin. I understand how you feel. I used to love Woody Allen. But he committed incest and married his step daughter (the legalities don't matter, it's the position of power that does).

I find it really hard to enjoy the tremendous talent of Woody Allen and now that I know what he's really about, I've tried to watch his films, but he's so autobiographical that I can see right through his facade. He's a fucked up person. Pedophiles can be geniuses, that doesn't mean I have to like them. The damage they do to children and those children as adults is tremendous in the face of any 'talent.'

It's an very unfortunate part of living in this world. You can still enjoy him, but to excuse him because of his talent is incorrect thinking.

Best, Cynthia the Expert on Child Abuse (I got my Phd. on the home study program) :::)

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Date: Sat, Nov 20, 1999 at 19:50:55 (EST)
From: Charlie fan
Email: None
To: Cynthia G.
Subject: Re: Charlie Chaplin
Message:
Dear Cynthia:
You are absolutely right. Chaplin like Woody (although to me there is no comparition bet ween their talents) were not the epitomy of mental health. I am not trying to justify child molestation. Please accept my apologies if it seemed that way.
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Date: Thurs, Nov 18, 1999 at 18:47:15 (EST)
From: la-ex
Email: None
To: All
Subject: jw-prouty-ashram
Message:
Hey JW-I think I remember you from the DC area-after randy stein, I think. I remember the big three-prouty, imbarrato and an instructor from boston.They used to give this intense satsang about giving it all to m inthe ashram. A few years later randy prouty is married, alan imbarrato hates maharaji and the boston guy is an alcoholic in malibu.Imbarrato, one of the original nazis in the ashram, supplosedly left m after his instructorship period. M told him to watch himself regarding sex, and Imbarrato told m he didn't know what the hell he was talking about.That was the last we saw of big al.As much as people hated his guts, you have to admit he had some guts in telling m to shove it.
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Date: Fri, Nov 19, 1999 at 17:23:28 (EST)
From: Katie
Email: mishkat@gateway.net
To: la-ex
Subject: Hey La-Ex - a question?
Message:
Did you live in DC back in the mid-seventies? I was a DC premie from 1972-1977, and there's a couple more of us on this site as well (plus several others who I am in contact with). I remember Randy Stein pretty well (I always thought he was a nice guy) & I wonder if I might know you too. You can e-mail me if you want.

Take care,
Katie (my name was Mischa when I was a premie)

P.S. your stories about Amtext are great (although the one about the guy in the pick-up truck was very sad) - also the one about the cc's trading ashram premies...unbelievable.

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Date: Thurs, Nov 18, 1999 at 19:06:30 (EST)
From: JW
Email: None
To: la-ex
Subject: Re: jw-prouty-ashram
Message:
Hi, if you remember me from DC, I apologize. Okay?

Actually, I was CC after Andy Harris, who was after Randy Stein. BTW -- I was in touch with Andy a few years ago. He is an ex living in Sonoma County, California, or at least he was then.

Oh yes, Alan Imbarrato -- a very strange dude. I don't know if I recall who the alcoholic instructor from Boston was. Alan went around to the surrounding communities and told them they should all move to Bethesda because they were too spaced out in their small communities. I was on the phone a lot with them telling them that Alan was an idiot and to ignore what he said. I remember one night a group of us in the ashram in Bethesda were getting ready for 'group meditation' and Alan was swinging his barragon over his head and smashed a light fixture with it. I didn't know Alan was an ex, but I guess most premies are. When was it Alan had that confrontation with Maharaji?

I remember in 1976 Alan was one of those premies who did EST. He then did this insufferable 'process satsang' in which he was trying to be confrontive -- use EST principles to make you more 'open.' It was revolting, even for Alan.

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Date: Thurs, Nov 18, 1999 at 15:18:17 (EST)
From: who knows
Email: None
To: All
Subject: update - statistics
Message:
Statistics from Maharaji.org:
english: 1,240,000 instead of 1,237,081, since yesterday. 3000 hits in one day...not bad
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Date: Thurs, Nov 18, 1999 at 15:50:02 (EST)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: None
To: who knows
Subject: Ok, idiot savant
Message:
Again, I'm not foolish enough to waste my time at Maharaji's slime pit to figure out what these numbers relate to. Therefore, I'll guess by the 3000 hits in one day to mean how many people per day hit his site.

Ok, somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but we had a hit counter on the old Forum III and I believe we were getting that many message read hits and more per day with some 1.3 million messages read during the 15 month or so tenure of Forum III with business picking up as time went on.

So, your puny numbers for your Guru are quite lame in comparison, aren't they? Heck, Maharaji's site is professionally done and lots of money is spent. The ex-premie sites are all run by unpaid volunteers.

who knows your boast is pretty pathetic and your Guru's slick business is dying out. Maharaji's only hope is to revive DECA and build him a rocket ship so he can establish himself on the planet Mars or, better yet, Uranus. Then, and only then, will Maharaji be able to keep his promise of establishing peace on a planet.

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Date: Thurs, Nov 18, 1999 at 16:40:29 (EST)
From: lib
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: Re: Ok, idiot savant
Message:
The Guru Maharaj Ji does NOT have all his computers lined up calling his website
so that he ends up at the top of the search engines!
You lousy bastard! To THINK that he would use all the phone lines installed in his house
to be used hit machines!
You are NUTS to think that the reason Enjoying Life.Org got so many thousand hits
on the first days of thier web site was from a certain location in Malibu.
SURE, I know that only the ex-premie forum here knew about that web site at the start, and that
the numbers went through the roof BEFORE the site was advertised by Elan Vital, but that,
you idiot, was coincidence!
YOU are the idiot DREKIE
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Date: Fri, Nov 19, 1999 at 00:36:00 (EST)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: None
To: lib
Subject: Gee, we're having an intelligent conversation!
Message:
Mr. lib,

In my post to you I never mentioned any of those items to which you responded.

First, your statistics, while impressive, have little meaning without some kind of legend as to what they refer to.

Second, I never said that Maharaji would cheat and hit his websites to boost his ratings on the search engines. I might have said that he spammed the search engines to get higher numbers. Actually, I know that Maharaji would never do anything that is not perfect cricket because he is a real good guy.

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Date: Fri, Nov 19, 1999 at 10:34:57 (EST)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: Re: Gee, we're having an intelligent conversation!
Message:
The saying is, 'It's not cricket' or 'That's not cricket' or 'That's just not cricket' etc. Deriving from the belief that a cricketer will always play cricket by the rules and not cheat and it would be unthinkable for him to do so.

Echoes of the British Empire when all British people believed in fair play and doing the decent thing, what!

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Date: Fri, Nov 19, 1999 at 14:21:42 (EST)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: Sir D., you haven't heard?
Message:
The term 'perfect cricket' has been used by West Coast surfers for a number of years now.
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Date: Fri, Nov 19, 1999 at 19:30:14 (EST)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: That's news to me and
Message:
it just goes to show how language travels and gets twisted around and changed. Unless of course they're talking about the insect variety of cricket.
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Date: Fri, Nov 19, 1999 at 05:37:24 (EST)
From: Charlie
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: Re: Gee, we're having an intelligent conversation!
Message:
Hit counters are notoriously inaccurate. Depending how the counter works it could be registering a hit for every graphic on any page of the site visited. Just to go through say three pages on www.maharaji.org would mean downloading around fifty or so graphic images. If the counter registers all these images as hits it would not surprise me that figures are large.
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Date: Fri, Nov 19, 1999 at 19:46:43 (EST)
From: hramirez
Email: hramirez2000@hotmail.com
To: Charlie
Subject: http://anon.free.anonymizer.com/Re: Gee, we're having an intelligent conversation!
Message:
nt
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Date: Sat, Nov 20, 1999 at 05:54:24 (EST)
From: The UnHacker
Email: None
To: hramirez
Subject: Wow! hramirez, you're really so cool! (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Thurs, Nov 18, 1999 at 22:37:51 (EST)
From: Joey
Email: None
To: lib
Subject: Get real libby!
Message:
Have you dropped enough water yet?

Why don't we put this entire discussion of statistics onto a meaningful plane and lets discuss this.

In 1997 and 1998, how many people did m give knowledge to in North America? (USA and Canada)

And

How many people (again in North America) have left during that same time period?

This is the second time I'm asking this question.
Is there a premie troll in the house (hey, even a REAL person will do:) brave enough to actually deal with it?

Or do you just come here to insult us and play your little bullshit games of classic cheat and deceit?

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Date: Fri, Nov 19, 1999 at 04:42:02 (EST)
From: GOMER PYLE
Email: None
To: Joey
Subject: Cheat and Deceit! Cheat and Deceit!(nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Thurs, Nov 18, 1999 at 12:15:35 (EST)
From: Rev J Hammond-Smyth
Email: pulpit@church.com
To: All
Subject: The End Is (almost) Nigh
Message:
And I saw the great prophets; He who is called Bill of Burke, the Great RT and others and they didst preach unto the multitudes a message of great doom for the Y2K bug was afoot and the end of the world was nigh.

And the Lord spake unto the Children of Prem saying - Fear not O ye lotus flowers, for I have given you refuge in mine own bank account and thy money will be safe with me. For what doth it profit a man to gain the whole world and lose it in a Y2K bank account. I am the way, the truth and the right bank account and he that laboureth and giveth unto me shall have his reward in heaven and shall see me on pay-as-you-view TV.

And in those times there didst appear the Lord of the Underworld, the incarnation of evil whose name is Be-els-ebub and he didst create his domain upon the web and that place was Hell.

And he didst call unto the Children of Prem saying - come into mine domain for I shall give thee that which you seek. And he didst have dwelling in his domain the fair daughters of Be-els-ebub who were temptresses all. And they didst tempt the Children of Prem with their beauty and even the Goddess Robyn didst sit upon her throne and beckon to the red blooded men of Prem and take them away from their wives.

And I saw the Goddess Selene wearing the robe of Be-elsie-bub which was an see-through baby-doll nighty and she didst reveal her charms to the weak kneed men of Prem who could not resist her terrible beauty.

And behold; there appeared unto me a great prophet whose name was Roger of Drek. And he didst show me a vision of the Lord which didst strike me with awe. For I didst see the Lord in all his glory with great power and massive tits that were as two huge orbs like unto Dolly Parton. And I didst kneel upon the ground and sayeth - surely, now is the time of our judgement, now is the end time, for never before hath man seen such a sight as this!

And these things didst happen in November which was one month before the end of the world...

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Date: Thurs, Nov 18, 1999 at 23:26:07 (EST)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: None
To: Rev J Hammond-Smyth
Subject: Gosh, I just report the news
Message:
Read all the great sermons from Reverend John Hammond-Smyth

I claim no credit, whatsoever, on the graven image of the Lord. I've only given it a home, a shrine, if you will.

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Date: Thurs, Nov 18, 1999 at 00:51:52 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: All
Subject: A funny thought
Message:
The other day I thought of something so simple, so obvious but richly rewarding. It's a recipe for an endless variety of extremely funny screenplays. And, like I say, it's so simple.

All it is is this. Imagine, if you will, that Maharaji really is the Lord. That's it. That's the whole ball of wax. Just let yourself imagine that and tell me this wouldn't then be one wild, wacky world.

The thing is, though, you have to really put your mind to it a bit.

Of course it works equally well with any crazy cult or belief system. Take Heaven's Gate, for instance. What if Marhsall Applewhite really was right?? You know, about the comet, about the Nike shoes, about exactly how much change you should have in your pocket when you get ready to go. Hey, maybe we all should cut our balls off! You know?

Or what if -- here's one -- what if Bal Bhagwan Ji really was the Lord? Think about it.

Anyway, the list goes on. I dunno. I just thought this was hilarious.

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Date: Thurs, Nov 25, 1999 at 10:22:28 (EST)
From: Deputy Dog
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Re: A funny thought
Message:
The other day I thought of something so simple, so obvious but richly rewarding.

Instead of whining and complaining all the time, and criticizing people who think differently from me, why not use the meditation techniques I have, interrupt the constant machine like flow of thoughts in my head, and experience an inner silence and rest.

It's so simple!

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Date: Thurs, Nov 18, 1999 at 13:16:06 (EST)
From: bb
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Re: A funny thought
Message:
shp is having those thoughts right now!
I have had em! You have to start making excuses for
a lot of stuff, but it CAN be done!
Happy birthday you old gopi
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Date: Thurs, Nov 18, 1999 at 09:29:36 (EST)
From: Grace
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Re: A funny thought
Message:
If Maharaji (Prem Pal) really were the Lord, God has a sense of humor and is trying to trip us all up. I guess that's the only way there would be the chosen FEW, because only a FEW would believe!
Also, it gives us huge leeway on how much we can get away with behavior-wise and still be a saint.
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