Forum V: Archive
Compiled: Fri, Jan 28, 2000 at 21:40:48 (GMT)
From: Jan 11, 2000 To: Jan 27, 2000 Page: 3 Of: 5


Roger Producer eDrek™ -:- what goes around comes around -:- Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 08:21:16 (GMT)
__ Coach -:- More idiots arriving daily. -:- Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 17:58:49 (GMT)
__ __ Roger eDrek™ -:- Not our boy, Robert Cerby -:- Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 21:00:44 (GMT)
__ Evergreen(TM) -:- Never Never Land -:- Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 13:55:13 (GMT)
__ Jean-Michel -:- DOOM: new acronym -:- Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 11:32:25 (GMT)
__ __ Shifting -:- DOOM: new acronym -:- Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 12:48:38 (GMT)

Nigel -:- Cainer in Private Eye again -:- Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 01:44:56 (GMT)
__ Roger eDrek™ -:- Thread to ***Greatest Hits*** -:- Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 08:11:47 (GMT)
__ __ CQG -:- Bear in mind that Private Eye -:- Sat, Jan 22, 2000 at 14:42:52 (GMT)
__ __ Nigel -:- Thread to ***Greatest Hits*** -:- Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 22:28:29 (GMT)
__ Evergreen -:- HEHEHEHOHOHO -:- Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 15:19:09 (GMT)
__ __ nigel -:- Stupid, irrelevant, inaccurate -:- Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 22:42:54 (GMT)
__ __ __ Evergreen -:- Nigel...research your facts -:- Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 11:15:28 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Nigel -:- Nigel...research your facts -:- Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 22:58:09 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ CQG -:- The 50 character per word limi -:- Sat, Jan 22, 2000 at 13:53:22 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ hamzen -:- Right on the button -:- Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 19:16:11 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Evergreen -:- Sick mind -:- Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 20:19:14 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ hamzen -:- Sick mind -:- Sat, Jan 22, 2000 at 02:50:47 (GMT)
__ __ JW -:- Huh? You must be Confused. -:- Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 21:23:34 (GMT)
__ __ __ Evergreen -:- Blashphemy Action against Ed. -:- Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 11:20:24 (GMT)
__ __ __ JHB -:- Huh? You must be Confused. -:- Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 00:38:03 (GMT)
__ Cultbuster UK -:- Cainer in Private Eye again -:- Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 15:15:03 (GMT)
__ __ nigel -:- Hey - whaddya reckon..? -:- Sat, Jan 22, 2000 at 17:24:05 (GMT)
__ Typical British tabloid -:- journalism. No wonder all the -:- Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 02:44:52 (GMT)
__ __ AJW -:- Brilliant Point Mate. -:- Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 11:12:38 (GMT)
__ __ Nigel -:- UK tabloids are indeed crap... -:- Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 14:28:59 (GMT)
__ __ __ Lord Gnome -:- Your cheque's in the post. -:- Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 14:37:37 (GMT)
__ __ Lord Gnome -:- You bonehead -:- Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 14:12:23 (GMT)
__ __ Anon -:- journalism. No wonder all the -:- Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 11:53:05 (GMT)
__ __ __ Lord Gnome -:- Hear, hear!! -:- Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 13:54:36 (GMT)
__ __ Roger eDrek™ -:- let's talk about journalism -:- Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 05:01:46 (GMT)
__ __ __ Lord Gnome -:- The Press, God Bless 'Em -:- Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 14:23:34 (GMT)
__ __ __ Sad watching you spin -:- uncontrolably into some vortex -:- Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 06:33:57 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Roger eDrek™ -:- yes, you're right, Rob -:- Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 06:50:57 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Lord Gnome -:- Punctuation -:- Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 14:34:34 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Roger eDrek™ -:- I offer no defence -:- Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 19:55:57 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Gnome -:- I offer no defence -:- Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 22:43:14 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Christopher -:- The word is 'droll' m'lud.(nt) -:- Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 12:02:26 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Gnome -:- Immediate Death -:- Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 13:32:53 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ The accused -:- Stay of execution? -:- Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 16:07:09 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Captain Gnome -:- No last requests -:- Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 18:45:50 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Christopher-now a.k.a CQG -:- No last requests -:- Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 20:33:02 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Gnome -:- Yer new nom de ploom -:- Sat, Jan 22, 2000 at 15:56:21 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ CQG -:- Wilco, captain - sah! (nt) -:- Sat, Jan 22, 2000 at 16:40:37 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Gnome -:- http://private-eye.co.uk -:- Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 22:47:31 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Gnome -:- http://www.private-eye.co.uk -:- Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 22:58:49 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Roger eDrek™ -:- You could use a syntax lesson -:- Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 07:07:06 (GMT)
__ __ __ Sir Dave -:- let's talk about journalism -:- Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 06:25:38 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Roger eDrek™ -:- more synchronicity Sir D. -:- Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 06:44:19 (GMT)
__ __ Roger eDrek™ -:- U mean crap like Astrology nt -:- Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 03:19:38 (GMT)
__ Roger eDrek -:- Instant **Best** Is this true? -:- Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 02:06:26 (GMT)
__ __ bb -:- Instant **Best** Is this true? -:- Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 03:34:34 (GMT)

michael -:- it ain't the same -:- Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 23:46:06 (GMT)
__ Robyn -:- it ain't the same -:- Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 01:22:42 (GMT)

who knows -:- statistic update -:- Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 20:55:04 (GMT)
__ Roger Brimstone eDrek™ -:- M don't believe in sa-tistics -:- Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 21:48:00 (GMT)
__ __ Idotted Crosst -:- sa-distics don't lie (nt) -:- Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 00:02:19 (GMT)
__ __ __ Roger eDrek™ -:- Maharaji is the master sadist -:- Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 00:15:13 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ I.+T -:- Maharaji is the master sadist -:- Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 00:58:11 (GMT)

carol the courgeous -:- Find your Porpoise -:- Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 19:02:07 (GMT)
__ is a premie! -:- Carol IS a premie -:- Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 22:19:06 (GMT)
__ Mike -:- Find your Porpoise -:- Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 19:37:53 (GMT)
__ __ Evergreen -:- Find your Porpoise -:- Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 20:25:31 (GMT)
__ __ __ carol -:- Find your Porpoise -:- Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 20:22:22 (GMT)
__ __ __ Mike -:- Flipper's my favorite porpoise -:- Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 22:01:53 (GMT)
__ __ __ Roger Brimstone eDrek™ -:- Tuna, the chicken of the sea -:- Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 21:31:56 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Lucifer -:- Is that so? -:- Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 01:24:13 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Roger eDrek™ -:- Is that so? -:- Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 02:12:20 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ B. Bub -:- Is that so? -:- Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 02:23:48 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ bb -:- Is that so? -:- Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 03:42:45 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Roger eDrek™ -:- What will my friends think? -:- Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 05:09:41 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ B. Bub -:- What will my friends think? -:- Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 05:53:46 (GMT)
__ __ __ Christopher -:- Something fishy going on ... -:- Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 21:26:27 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Roger So Confused eDrek™ -:- Clearcuts in Evergreen state -:- Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 21:38:52 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ bb -:- Clearcuts in Evergreen state -:- Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 04:19:24 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Roger eDrek™ -:- Say what? -:- Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 05:15:33 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- I ain't me, Rog-serious NT -:- Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 22:02:53 (GMT)

la-ex -:- satellite video costs -:- Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 17:25:04 (GMT)
__ Jean-Michel -:- True costs vs Visions costs -:- Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 21:41:46 (GMT)
__ __ Me -:- True costs vs Visions costs -:- Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 22:29:21 (GMT)
__ Ben Lurking -:- satellite video costs -:- Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 20:29:22 (GMT)

Evergreen -:- Reality Check -:- Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 14:52:31 (GMT)
__ bb -:- So, just ASSUME ?? -:- Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 03:48:12 (GMT)
__ __ Evergreen -:- In the Evergreen Land -:- Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 11:43:53 (GMT)
__ __ __ bb -:- In the Evergreen Land -:- Mon, Jan 24, 2000 at 07:28:20 (GMT)
__ An Occassional Observer -:- Reality Check -:- Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 16:04:11 (GMT)
__ __ Evergreen -:- Reality Check -:- Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 16:11:32 (GMT)
__ __ __ Mike -:- Well guess what? -:- Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 16:23:21 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Evergreen -:- Well guess what? -:- Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 17:40:55 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Roger eDre™ -:- Shades of Shp (nt) -:- Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 23:18:48 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Shp -:- TM: I have to pay to poop? -:- Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 07:51:34 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Mike -:- Well guess what? -:- Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 18:56:27 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Evergreen -:- Well guess what? -:- Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 19:40:04 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Christopher -:- There's a difference between: -:- Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 20:39:32 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ me -:- Evergreen is david Mancoff? -:- Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 22:44:46 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Mike -:- Well said, Chris -:- Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 20:58:01 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Christopher -:- Thanks, & you must be psychic! -:- Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 21:30:27 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Mike -:- No, I'm a 'physic'.... -:- Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 22:05:58 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ An Occassional Observer -:- You are sanctimoneous -:- Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 18:25:15 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Shp -:- You ain't a very good observer -:- Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 08:06:05 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ An Occassional Observer -:- The eternal fool -:- Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 11:49:08 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Shp -:- The eternal now -:- Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 22:40:34 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ You never know when to -:- shut up(NT) -:- Sat, Jan 22, 2000 at 00:57:06 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Shp -:- you're playing one-upmanship.. -:- Sat, Jan 22, 2000 at 14:39:00 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Evergreen -:- You are sanctimoneous -:- Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 19:41:46 (GMT)
__ Genital Consensualsex -:- The last sentence says it all -:- Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 15:32:01 (GMT)
__ __ Evergreen -:- Your name says it all -:- Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 16:09:49 (GMT)

Roger eDrek™ -:- Movie Reviews (not off topic) -:- Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 10:11:05 (GMT)
__ Selene -:- Movie Reviews (not off topic) -:- Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 18:02:01 (GMT)
__ __ Roger eDrek™ -:- nope, not Holy Smoke (nt) -:- Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 23:12:02 (GMT)
__ __ Robyn -:- Movie Reviews(ot of course) -:- Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 19:04:03 (GMT)
__ __ __ Selene -:- Movie Reviews(ot of course) -:- Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 19:29:29 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Robyn -:- Movie Reviews(ot of course) -:- Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 04:55:50 (GMT)

Jean-Michel -:- Here's some excellent links -:- Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 08:43:16 (GMT)
__ Shifting -:- The battle for your mind -:- Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 15:59:59 (GMT)
__ Charlie -:- Here's some excellent links -:- Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 10:55:32 (GMT)
__ __ Special Agent -:- Not As It Seems.. -:- Mon, Jan 24, 2000 at 00:37:15 (GMT)
__ __ Runamok -:- Here's some excellent links -:- Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 23:17:00 (GMT)
__ carol -:- What time is it there? -:- Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 09:53:05 (GMT)
__ __ Jean-Michel -:- Time for tea ! -:- Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 10:12:01 (GMT)
__ __ __ Carol -:- Time for tea ! -:- Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 16:42:00 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Christopher -:- Sign that points one way? -:- Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 18:38:58 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ carol -:- (Just read)Excellent!Thankyou! -:- Mon, Jan 24, 2000 at 08:52:18 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Robyn -:- Sign that points one way? -:- Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 23:26:07 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Christopher -:- :) :) :) (nt) -:- Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 09:48:04 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Powerman -:- Sign that points one way? -:- Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 20:45:29 (GMT)

billiam -:- Yes des, I hear ya load -:- Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 04:49:29 (GMT)
__ bb -:- Yes des, I hear ya load -:- Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 18:31:29 (GMT)

Nigel -:- Quick hi to all! (ot) -:- Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 01:21:59 (GMT)
__ xyz -:- Quick hi to all! (ot) -:- Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 18:33:51 (GMT)
__ __ Robyn -:- Quick hi to all! (ot) -:- Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 01:32:00 (GMT)
__ __ __ Nigel -:- Quick hi to all! (ot) -:- Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 01:51:48 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Robyn -:- Quick hi to all! (ot) -:- Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 02:18:16 (GMT)
__ __ Christopher -:- 'Immoralizing'??? (nt) -:- Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 18:43:47 (GMT)

JW -:- Question: Roger? -:- Tues, Jan 18, 2000 at 23:41:58 (GMT)
__ Powerman -:- Question: Roger? -:- Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 00:43:55 (GMT)
__ __ Mike -:- Question: Roger? -:- Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 21:02:04 (GMT)
__ __ __ Internet White Pages -:- Definitive Answers -:- Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 01:19:04 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Mike -:- BWAH HA HA HA! -:- Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 15:28:58 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Internet White Pages -:- Hint -:- Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 20:00:04 (GMT)
__ __ __ Powerman -:- So True, Mike nt -:- Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 23:13:49 (GMT)

Worried brown eyes -:- Des Perado posted this: -:- Tues, Jan 18, 2000 at 20:03:26 (GMT)
__ gerry -:- Des Perado posted this: -:- Tues, Jan 18, 2000 at 20:21:01 (GMT)
__ __ carol -:- Gerry,Gerry,you always guess! -:- Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 09:57:12 (GMT)
__ __ __ Gerry -:- Gerry,Gerry,you always guess! -:- Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 15:56:11 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ carol the not so cautious -:- No but I get the meaning! -:- Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 16:47:28 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- No but I get the meaning! -:- Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 17:28:01 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ carol -:- No but I get the meaning! -:- Sat, Jan 22, 2000 at 02:09:37 (GMT)
__ __ Less worried brown eyes? -:- Des Perado posted this: -:- Tues, Jan 18, 2000 at 20:43:13 (GMT)
__ __ __ Roger eDrek -:- Yeah, tell Rob who Rob is -:- Tues, Jan 18, 2000 at 20:51:20 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Marge -:- He's the Talented Mr. Ripley -:- Tues, Jan 18, 2000 at 23:46:00 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Dickie -:- He's the Talented Mr. Ripley -:- Sun, Jan 23, 2000 at 20:00:47 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Christopher -:- One or TWO posting IDs ??? -:- Tues, Jan 18, 2000 at 21:22:04 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Sgt. Roger Schultz eDrek -:- I know nothing. NOTHING! -:- Tues, Jan 18, 2000 at 21:30:11 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ me -:- I know nothing. NOTHING! -:- Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 05:26:36 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Roger eDrek™ -:- Des-o Row -:- Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 10:20:18 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Christopher -:- Des-o Row -:- Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 18:11:04 (GMT)

UFO -:- rare gem found -:- Tues, Jan 18, 2000 at 18:12:57 (GMT)
__ oldie -:- Carols pro M post -:- Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 21:29:50 (GMT)
__ __ Christopher -:- Carols pro M post -:- Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 18:17:03 (GMT)
__ UFO rave -:- I shouldda said.. -:- Tues, Jan 18, 2000 at 19:38:34 (GMT)

Me -:- CAROL: Kissing Maharaji's feet -:- Tues, Jan 18, 2000 at 16:46:18 (GMT)
__ carol -:- Waiting for answer?+Yesterday! -:- Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 09:30:37 (GMT)
__ __ Roger eDrek™ -:- God is a concept... -:- Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 06:33:36 (GMT)
__ __ Mike -:- Sweet Carol -:- Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 16:43:50 (GMT)
__ Mu -:- CAROL: Kissing Maharaji's feet -:- Tues, Jan 18, 2000 at 17:27:38 (GMT)

Wanda Rher -:- Is there an answer? -:- Tues, Jan 18, 2000 at 16:46:09 (GMT)
__ Ent Hooghit -:- Is there an answer? -:- Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 00:34:36 (GMT)
__ Christopher -:- Is there an answer? -:- Tues, Jan 18, 2000 at 19:49:26 (GMT)
__ __ Wanda Rher -:- Is there an answer? -:- Tues, Jan 18, 2000 at 23:16:59 (GMT)
__ Jean-Michel -:- What are the options? -:- Tues, Jan 18, 2000 at 18:19:15 (GMT)
__ __ Wanda Rher -:- What are the options? -:- Tues, Jan 18, 2000 at 19:46:14 (GMT)
__ __ __ Shifting -:- What are the options? -:- Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 17:33:42 (GMT)
__ __ __ Jean-Michel -:- Well, then you have NO options -:- Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 08:12:20 (GMT)

Ben Lurking -:- Is the Forum Hiccupping? -:- Tues, Jan 18, 2000 at 15:35:30 (GMT)
__ Ben Lurking -:- Is the Forum Hiccupping? -:- Tues, Jan 18, 2000 at 15:37:20 (GMT)

Roger eDrek -:- Am I being Blocked? -:- Tues, Jan 18, 2000 at 08:06:29 (GMT)
__ Roger eDrek -:- Testing - Please Ignore -:- Tues, Jan 18, 2000 at 20:00:11 (GMT)
__ __ Ben Lurking -:- Testing - Please Ignore -:- Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 02:36:01 (GMT)
__ __ __ Roger eDrek™ -:- What do you mean! -:- Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 10:24:14 (GMT)
__ __ Roger eDrek -:- All Systems Normal -:- Tues, Jan 18, 2000 at 20:03:24 (GMT)
__ Doktor Dick -:- Am I being Blocked? -:- Tues, Jan 18, 2000 at 13:03:21 (GMT)
__ Another Guy -:- Am I being Blocked? -:- Tues, Jan 18, 2000 at 09:59:28 (GMT)

Jean-Michel -:- The Kirpal Statistic... -:- Mon, Jan 17, 2000 at 16:10:07 (GMT)
__ Runamok -:- this is great stuff, JM -:- Mon, Jan 17, 2000 at 17:20:42 (GMT)


Date: Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 08:21:16 (GMT)
From: Roger Producer eDrek™
Email: drek@oz.net
To: Everyone
Subject: what goes around comes around
Message:
Hey, not only am I the producer, but I am the destroyer as well.

To all the Robert Cerby's out there, I've come to blow your houses down. I'm in training to blow down that mooted and moated monstrosity in Malibu.

It would appear that the Forum has entered a new phase of nonsense. Or should that be something nonsensical has entered the Forum?

And to what or whom do I refer?

Well, other than the new agey stuff that we can attribute a real person with there is this latest manifestation of Robert Cerby who has posted with such names as:

Sad watching you spin
Doktor Dick
Des Perado
Evergreen (maybe not, dunno?)
Blood of other people?
Unique in some ways
-and others-

Funny how Cerby disappeared from Anything Goes. I guess that I must have offended him. And then there was Des Perado here at Forum V. And now a few other spirits that come and go so quickly you don't really know. We've got your Generals and Genitals but you can always trust a man in a uniform.

Ok, I'll play dumb and say that maybe this new character is not Robert Cerby. Maybe it's more than one person. Maybe it's not a conspiracy coming from the Office of Maharaji (OOM). Who the hell knows? And does it matter that we don't know? They're all just as faceless and remote as Maharaji was to us.

What we do know is that someone or some few people have taken it upon themselves to give us as much as a hard time as they can give us. Questioning, taunting, nonsense bullshit, whatever. Anything to throw us off, to disrupt us or just because this guy has a big ego and cannot stand to be left out of the action and ignored. Big ego where he is the masterful one who is smarter and sneakier than we are. Who can come and go at his own whim without detection and with no consequences.

Sorry, Rob, but you are a coward and your guru Maharaji is a fat greedy fraud. Wait a few more years, Rob, and the guru trip will have completely come undone in the west and all that will be left is the Amaroo outpost and mother India.

You'll be the fool when one by one they slip away. One by one your western friends wise up and stop shelling out for the annual pilgrimage to Amaroo.

You'll be there though. Yeah, Rob, you will be there. You'll have front row seats because you'll be the only one there. Why will you be the only one there? Are you really that special, Rob? Nope, sorry.

You'll be the only one there because you've come to fuck with us. No, it's nothing we've done or we're going to do. No, it's all within you Rob. All within you just like the Boss says it is. Because you come here to hassle us it makes it that much more difficult, if not impossible for you to break free of those shackles that fat boy gave to you. You've reinforced them with your hate of us. You'd be so much better off it you weren't galvanizing yourself here everyday. Maharaji's taint is only seeping deeper and deeper into you and the more you try to push us and our message of freedom away the deeper it goes.

You'd be better off if you were completely ignorant of the real truth, Rob.

Those shackles have strengthened now and, Rob, I am the only one here who can help you. Will I charge you money in your moment of need and weakness?

No, Rob, no. All that I ask is your love and your gratitude. Listen to me, Rob, and I will help you. What you need to do Rob is to admit to us with no cheat and deceit who you really are. Give us the link to your website with your picture on it and everything about you. You need to come clean to us. And we will verify that information. Most likely a personal interview at your expense.

Rob, you will need to apologize for all of your trespasses, all of your aliases, all of your games.

You've got no choice, Rob. It's either that or you're going to end up as the last one with old fatso and you know that by that time he's going to be one cantankerous strange kinky guy who will screw you in every way he possibly can because his sick little mind is only getting worse and worse as time goes on.

I can't imagine little fatso being all serious while dressed all in black sitting at his very expensive piano and a statute of Quixote in the background. Transparent! Boring! But just for giggles it might be worth it to suffer through paying and signing up with Visions.

Makeup!
Ok, Mr. Maharaji, Sir, Piano Scene Soft Focus Close Up Take 37. CLACK!
Cut, cut, cuuut!

Mr. Maharaji, I know that we all know that you need to be able to smoke a cigarette whenever YOU want, but we cannot have the film rolling and have you exhaling a cloud of smoke. Just blow it out before we roll, please.
One more time, Piano Scene Soft Focus Close Up Take 38. CLACK!

You bought that little act? I'd much rather have the full blown Krishna mala thing than that. Maharaji just ain't a cool dude no matter where he buys his suits. Silk purse, sows ear, William Shatner hairdo, baggy puffy eyes, double chin, bloated belly with a bottle of cognac and a pack of smokes nearby. If I want that kind of entertainment I'll watch Dean Martin reruns. At least Dino could sing and was funny.

Hurry, Rob. No time to waste now. Before it's too late, Rob. If you break away now you can make it. We'll all be here to help you, Rob. We love you, Rob. We can help you, Rob.

Hey, I am talking to Rob here aren't I? Rob? Rooobbb?

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 17:58:49 (GMT)
From: Coach
Email: None
To: Roger Producer eDrek™
Subject: More idiots arriving daily.
Message:
Roger,

This guy's a complete fool. Like vampire's and garlic they can't stand the truth. Nail 'em.

Coach

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 21:00:44 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek™
Email: drek@oz.net
To: Coach
Subject: Not our boy, Robert Cerby
Message:
Some of these new arrivals may be fools, but not Robert Cerby. Oh no, this guy has a Mensa IQ. Mr. Cerby can fool some of the people some of the time...
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 13:55:13 (GMT)
From: Evergreen(TM)
Email: None
To: Roger Producer eDrek™
Subject: Never Never Land
Message:
Mr Roger Drek...or are you the infamous Darlak from Dr Who...

I aint Rob and Rob aint me....so that is one of your assumptions or wishfull thinking blown away...Go on living in never never land
And yes I do use a proxy server...and no not all proxy servers are the same...and if you know what a proxy server is you would know what I mean...

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Date: Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 11:32:25 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Roger Producer eDrek™
Subject: DOOM: new acronym
Message:
Maybe it's not a conspiracy coming from the Office of Maharaji (OOM). Who the hell knows?

Divine Office Of Maharaji = DOOM

I like that new one ! Go on Rog ....

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Date: Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 12:48:38 (GMT)
From: Shifting
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: DOOM: new acronym
Message:
DOOM: Cool name and fits just right. BTW. I heard many times that premies close to him come here.
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Date: Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 01:44:56 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: fitzroy@liverpool.ac.uk
To: Everyone
Subject: Cainer in Private Eye again
Message:
As if we didn't know already, fleecing the gullible can be a lucrative racket. The following appears in the latest Private Eye mag (Jan 14).

(Hmm, do I see see ex-premie paw-marks all over this..?)

>
CRYSTAL BOLLOCKS

JONATHAN CAINER, the goblin-faced astrologer who has defected from the Mail to the Express, is not only the best-paid hack in Fleet Street. He is also a devotee of Maharaji, the tubby guru who founded the Divine Light Mission cult in the 1970s and has since grown fat (literally and otherwise) an 'donations' from his followers - so much so that he is now even richer than Cainer himself, residing in a vast Malibu mansion complete with a fleet of limos and a private jet.

Late last year, investigative hacks at the Express were preparing a major expose of Maharaji's empire. Just before publication, Cainer suddenly contacted the paper and offered to transfer his horoscope from the Mail. Pure coincidence, no doubt. Nevertheless, the Maharaji investigation was hastily spiked as Rosie Boycott welcomed Cainer aboard.

Express executives took the precaution of asking Cainer if he still had any connection with Maharaji, but he assured them that he had long since severed all links.

This is not quite the whole truth, however. Until a few months ago Cainer ran a website www.enjoyinglife.org - devoted to glorifying the Maharaji and his work. At the end of last August, after his involvement had been publicised in the Eye and the Guardian, he removed his name and his various articles from the site, explaining to friends that he had 'unwittingly attracted media attention' and thus given the website 'a higher public profile than it needs or wants to have'. But, as he emphasised, his withdrawal didn't mean he felt any less devoted to the 'great inspirational teacher'. In fact, Cainer remains a regular donor to Maharaji's organisation, and is rewarded with front-row seats at the guru's public meetings.

Cainer is now claiming he left the Mail because he disliked its views on homosexuality, single mothers and suchlike. But rather less high-minded considerations may have played a part. His basic salary at the Daily Mail was about f75,000, and the premium-rate phonelines in his column brought in more than £200,0000 a year, which he and the newspaper split 50-50, thus giving him another £100,000. He was also allowed to print a free daily advert for his new astrology shop in York, and to promote his 'private horoscope' business through the column.

Even so, it wasn't enough. Six months ago Cainer was outraged to learn that a few other top Mail contributors were paid the same rate as him for double-page spreads. 'How dare they!' he spluttered to a colleague. 'I make this paper the bestseller it is!' He then demanded 75 percent of the proceeds from the phone lines, ie more than £150,000 pa, but chief boxwallah Laurie Scar refused.

The Express has been far more accommodating: though his basic salary remains at about £75,000, he will indeed now get his 75 percent rake-off from the dial-a-horoscope racket. More importantly for such a raving egomaniac, large photos of his goblin face arc now splashed all over the Express's news pages.

Incredibly Cainer also wanted to become a director of Express Newspapers. Rosie had to explain gently that milord Hollick was unlikely to comply, since having an astrologer on the board would make the company a laughing stock in the City. 'Give me Lord Hollick's birth details and I'll cast a horoscope for him,' Cainer suggested. 'I'm sure he'd see sense then.'

As a consolation prize, Boycott and her colleagues agreed to let Cainer play an active part in newsroom discussions, after he pointed out that his gift of foresight would be extremely useful in planning editorial coverage. Do you mean, one executive asked him, that you could have predicted that a Korean Airlines cargo plane would crash at Stansted airport'? 'Of course,' Cainer replied. 'It was the night of the full moon, after all.' Thus the bearded soothsayer is now known to the newsdesk as 'executive in charge of forward planning'.

One development he hadn't foreseen was that the Mail would go to court to force him to work out his notice until the end of January. In one recent column, the entry for Scorpio - the sign of Mail editor Paul Dacre -read: 'How magnanimous are you?... If you manage to let go of something you are tempted to hang on to, you will experience an almost immediate sense of relief.' Cainer's entry for his own sun-sign, Sagittarius, was equally revealing: 'The countdown has started. It's only a matter of time before you get where you want to be.' Even the cloth-heads at the Mail noticed what he was up to: the following day one David Wells wrote the horoscopes, with a small line at the bottom announcing that 'Jonathan Cainer is unwell'.
>

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Date: Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 08:11:47 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek™
Email: drek@oz.net
To: Nigel
Subject: Thread to ***Greatest Hits***
Message:
I'm going to put this entire thread into the new ***Greatest Hits*** section.

I went to the Private Eye page, but I assume that without a subscription I am unable to see the Cainer article.

So, I'm assuming that Nigel did, indeed, pull the Cainer article from Private Eye and the piece is now being seen and read by thousands in the UK? I thought it was great, but I'm completely unaware of the context and thought that it might have been made up or a complete hoax. Pinch me so that I will know that I'm not dreaming.

I think that this is huge! A monster. Could we say that this is the biggest negative publicity hit that Maharaji has taken in years? Again, the allegation is that the entire Cainer move to the Express was for the purpose of having the Maharaji-Jagdeo pedophile story killed and buried by the editors of the Express.

Do I have this correct? Am I reading too much in this?

Kill the Carol story on the forum. This is incredible. I love it. And our people played some role in this?

Will Maharaji ever be able to show his face in the UK again?

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Date: Sat, Jan 22, 2000 at 14:42:52 (GMT)
From: CQG
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek™
Subject: Bear in mind that Private Eye
Message:
... has not yet mentioned anything about the Jadgeo issue.

They only talk of 'a major expose of Maharaji's empire'

But it is real, and looks even better in print.

If only I had a scanner.

Chris.

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Date: Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 22:28:29 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: fitzroy@liverpool.ac.uk
To: Roger eDrek™
Subject: Thread to ***Greatest Hits***
Message:
I scanned the story from Private Eye. There are none of the juicier, more serious or scandalous stories on the website, unfortunately, but I suppose they have to leave some incentive for people to actually buy the magazine. But it's a shame they don't post back-issues in their entirety so non-UK residents could get an idea of what the magazine is about.

If the article is untrue on any major point of fact we can expect to see a letter from the Express, the Mail or Cainer himself in the next issue (it is published once a fortnight). Private Eye don't always get their stories 100% correct - and like any publication they can only be as trustworthy as their sources. But they are always happy to publish responses from aggrieved parties on their letters page. The absence of any such complaint in the next issue will add credence to the article.

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Date: Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 15:19:09 (GMT)
From: Evergreen
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: HEHEHEHOHOHO
Message:
What a load of codswallop...Private Eye is as much a part of the establishment as Prince Phillips is....It is just the establishment laughing at poor old Nigel and making him feel that it (PE) really has done some amazing disclosures....

Have you EVER HEARD OF OZ MAGAZINE: YES OZ MAGAZINE....

This was run by an OZI in the 70's and was shut down for YES...Blashphemy.....yes ....Come back Ayatollah all is forgiven...at least the British Establishment has preceeded you with its Blashphemy laws....what did the Editor of OZ do?????

He published a Poem which suggested that Jesus was a ..you know what...i.e. gay.....The magazine was promptly closed down and Mr OZ was put in JAIL.....HEHEHEHHOHOHO

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Date: Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 22:42:54 (GMT)
From: nigel
Email: fitzroy@redcrow.demon.co
To: Evergreen
Subject: Stupid, irrelevant, inaccurate
Message:
Hi Evergreen. Did anyone tell you that laughing out loud in public without sharing the joke is to risk becoming the joke? Your style reminds me of Catweasel's. Have you met?

re. Oz: some funny cartoon strips, maybe, but for the most part just badly-written, puerile drivel and empty posturing. I remember teenage boys loved it for the smut, but women - and I mean even the hippie chicks - tended to hate its macho attitude to women and sex. I read an interview with Richard Neville a couple of years back in which he expressed regret about the stuff they used to run and more-or-less acknowledged the emptiness of the magazine's radical stance.

So Oz celebrated recreational drug use and opposed all forms of censorship. Big deal. It hardly rocked the foundations of British society. And it was prosecuted for its 'Schoolkids Issue', not for publishing the poem about Jesus being gay (that was Gay News, sometime around 1981), so why don’t you get your facts straight? The prosecution and the jail terms handed down were admittedly pretty stupid but the cause was hardly heroic. Did you ever take a look at the schoolkid's special? There is a big difference between being controversial (by publishing a mag full of explicit porno pics aimed at children) and undermining the British establishment - which is what Oz seemed to imagine they were doing.

Private Eye may be long-established, but they are hardly 'establishment'. Their investigations (especially those of Paul Foot) have played a small, but significant part in bringing down a number of crooked ministers of state and exposing the unhealthy links between government, big business, and the arms trade. Corruption and institutionalised racism in the police and services have also featured recently. Rest of the time they are into exposing hypocrisy, injustice and greed in all spheres of life.

(Which is where Cainer and the guru come in. I suspect Private Eye will run and run with this story - especially the accurate detail about the Express stifling the child-abuse expose in order to get the big-name astrologer on board.)

Meanwhile, what were Oz's long-term achievements beyond bringing its editors the publicity and notoriety they so obviously craved?

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Date: Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 11:15:28 (GMT)
From: Evergreen
Email: None
To: nigel
Subject: Nigel...research your facts
Message:
Nigel..

You have some facts mixed up...I am not defending the content of Oz....I did not like the magazine or its contents...I was just an 18 year old undergrad then...the fact of the matter is that the Editor of Oz was jailed and the magazine shut down because of Blashphemy laws...and if you want to place a wager...I am sure we can get hold of Richard Neville somewhere..he must be on email...this is a historic fact...sorry...you should reserach this a little more...and you seem to be an angry man...

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Date: Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 22:58:09 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: fitzroy@liverpool.ac.uk
To: Evergreen
Subject: Nigel...research your facts
Message:
No, I am not mixed up, though suspect you might be. (Nor am I angry, but I do find disruptive, anonymous posters annoying - especially those who can't be bothered to string a sentence together.)

Fact: If Oz had been prosecuted for publishing a poem that suggested Jesus was gay then as you imply, the prosecution would have been for blasphemy, not obscenity. Oz was prosecuted for obscenity.

Fact: The only post-war UK prosecution under the blasphemy laws was the case of Whitehouse vs. Gay News, 1979. The offense: Gay News published a humourous poem implying Jesus and the disciples were Gay.

You can read about Richard Neville's latter-day scribblings at
http://jinx.sistm.unsw.edu. au/~greenlft/1996/247/247p27.htm

(Couldn't do a hyperlink as the posting form only allows 50 characters per word. To get this address to work you must close the gap between 'edu.' and 'au')

Anyway, scourge of the establishment, I think not...

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Date: Sat, Jan 22, 2000 at 13:53:22 (GMT)
From: CQG
Email: None
To: Nigel et al.
Subject: The 50 character per word limi
Message:
t - as well as these short title fields is a major pain.

Webmeistro - any chance of sorting this?

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Date: Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 19:16:11 (GMT)
From: hamzen
Email: None
To: Evergreen
Subject: Right on the button
Message:
And you seem to be a spiritual wanker trying to provide irrelevant & even worse, boring distractions.

Still dreaming of sex with the guru?

And of course you never experience anger, right.....

Ever green indeed

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Date: Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 20:19:14 (GMT)
From: Evergreen
Email: None
To: hamzen
Subject: Sick mind
Message:
wow...you do have a warped mind....feel sorry for you...maybe you should go and see some psycho guru
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Date: Sat, Jan 22, 2000 at 02:50:47 (GMT)
From: hamzen
Email: None
To: Evergreen
Subject: Sick mind
Message:
And of course your minds slick & perfect, right, yeah yeah, oh I forgot 'you feel sorry for me'- how difficult it must be living on such an elevated, nay superior level,

by the way it was a joke, making a point, but I guess at your altitude the truth is so obvious it's difficult to see anything else, let alone admit it might have a point

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Date: Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 21:23:34 (GMT)
From: JW
Email: None
To: Evergreen
Subject: Huh? You must be Confused.
Message:
You are saying that somebody went to jail for suggesting that Jesus Christ was gay? Sounds a bit harsh, not to mention absurd. How did it happen? Did Jesus Christ sue Mr.Oz?

I don't recall that Jesus ever discussed his sexual orientation. It apparently wasn't a big deal to him.

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Date: Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 11:20:24 (GMT)
From: Evergreen
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: Blashphemy Action against Ed.
Message:
JW...there was an underground magazine in the UK called OZ run by a waco Australian called Richard Neville...

In that magazine they published a Poem hinting or claiming that Jesus was guy...and a Libel Blashphemy action was started against the magazine..I believe by the Church ( I am not absolutely certain who started the libel action). The result was that the magazine was closed down and the Editor was put in Jail...

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Date: Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 00:38:03 (GMT)
From: JHB
Email: brauns@dircon.co.uk
To: Everyone
Subject: Huh? You must be Confused.
Message:
The Oz trial was a big deal in the early seventies (late sixties?). It was the first test of the Victorian obscenity laws in a long time and it really confused the legal establishment. Evergreen is partly right that the UK establishment is slow to catch up with new social trends, but it does have an inherent sense of fair play as well as its self protectionist tendencies. An openly out gay man beating Michael Portillo in the last election shows how things have changed since the Oz trial.

The Private Eye expose appears to be factually based, and anyone who wants to discuss the issue rationally is welcome to do so. Does any premie want to do that? My email is above if you are afraid of public, honest debate.

John.

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Date: Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 15:15:03 (GMT)
From: Cultbuster UK
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: Cainer in Private Eye again
Message:
The weekend the Express were about to run the Jagdeo child abuse story, Cainer showed up to talk about changing newspapers.

He apparently told the Express that he'd left the cult because he couldn't be associated with an organization that was associated with such a child abuse story as they were about to publicise. This was when he also quit from Engjoyinglife. All this was written about at the time, on the forum, when it happened last year.

The backlash against the Express dropping the story for 'commercial reasons' according the AJW, who posted here at the time is now coming to the surface, but this time the story is much bigger than the original cult child abuse story they were going to publish.

Watch this space.

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Date: Sat, Jan 22, 2000 at 17:24:05 (GMT)
From: nigel
Email: fitzroy@liverpool.ac.uk
To: Cultbuster UK
Subject: Hey - whaddya reckon..?
Message:
Surely the Mail would now have every reason to follow-up (a) the Jagdeo scandal and (b) JC's cult involvement.

There ain't no love lost between the Mail and Express, surely. They could maybe run a smallish item telling how 'an eastern cult, of which the UK's top-earning astrologer Jonathan Cainer is a member, is being investigated over child-abuse allegations..'

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Date: Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 02:44:52 (GMT)
From: Typical British tabloid
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: journalism. No wonder all the
Message:
Brits on this forum think like they do, what with being fed a diet of this kind of crap all their life.
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Date: Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 11:12:38 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Typical British tabloid
Subject: Brilliant Point Mate.
Message:

AJW responded:
Dear 'Typical British Tabloid',

What a wonderfully lucid argument. You present your main points with such clarity and force that even an audience of outright dissenters would be won over.

You must be American right?

Anth the Fed on Tabloids.

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Date: Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 14:28:59 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: fitzroy@liverpool.ac.uk
To: Typical British tabloid
Subject: UK tabloids are indeed crap...
Message:
Which is why they (The Mail and the Express) employ charlatans like Cainer - a 'typical tabloid journalist', indeed - and set up dial-a-horoscope phone-lines with extortionate charges. Any damn scheme, scam, half-truth or bingo game that sells, they will do it.

(So where are you from, Anonymous Poster? Are your tabloids any better?)

But Private Eye is not a tabloid (as others below have noted), and the tabloid press is one of the magazine's pet hates. The page the Cainer article appears on is called Street of Shame and deals with the shabby goings-on at the trashier, money-grabbing end of the newspaper market.

Britain has probably the best and the worst when it comes to newspapers and magazines (among the best I would count the Guardian and Independent). And of the magazines, Private Eye has again and again carried out the important groundwork in exposing corruption in high places. They knew about the late Sir Robert Maxwell when he still bending the ears of government ministers. The dirty doings of Jonathan Aitken, Neil Hamilton, Jeffery Archer, Mohammed Al Fayed etc.. (Of the above list, those not in prison are at least discredited, or will be before long..) You may not like Private Eye's mocking tone but the magazine performs an invaluable service to British society.

As for the Cainer story reproduced here - how much of it do you consider to be crap? We already know from other sources that at least 50% is accurate. The rest must have come from insiders on the various newsdesks and Private Eye has very good sources throughout Fleet Street. It is a long time since the magazine lost a libel case and I doubt whether the Mail, the Express or Cainer himself would risk starting one here for the simple reason that the Eye story is true.

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Date: Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 14:37:37 (GMT)
From: Lord Gnome
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: Your cheque's in the post.
Message:
Absolutely, dear chap.

Gnome

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Date: Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 14:12:23 (GMT)
From: Lord Gnome
Email: None
To: Typical British tabloid
Subject: You bonehead
Message:
Bollocks. If you think 'Private Eye' is a British tabloid, think again. Cretin.

E.Strobes.

pp Lord Gnome.

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Date: Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 11:53:05 (GMT)
From: Anon
Email: None
To: Typical British tabloid
Subject: journalism. No wonder all the
Message:

Anon responded:
Actually Private Eye is not usually crap nor a tabloid, it is often a witty, brilliantly satirical magazine and has been highly respected and loved by several generations of British people.
I am sorry you cannot appreciate the beneficial role that satire can play within society. When you think about it, people are usually only interested in other people's privacy when the latter have something to hide. Is it not ultimately a good thing that Cainer's affiliation with Maharaji is out in the open? Why should premies be so coy about the one they love? Prince Charles isn't ashamed to be openly sympathetic to Muslims.. Everbody accepts that Cliff Richard is a committed Christian..that so-and-so is a Scientologist etc. Even the latter have survived scathing TV documentaries and are probably the better for it.

The press may have a field day pointing out the perceived faults with the whole thing and they can destroy reputations. But I have seen that they also serve usefully to expose many people who deserve it. If people have nothing to hide then even the press are not usually interested.

Look at all the fuss about the Royal Family. In the end, all the public attention they tried so hard to avoid for so long has arguably made them much more open and accessible and honest people. Their reputations weren't destroyed because they are basically quite honest and reasonable folk, they weren't found to have done anything dreadfully subversive, and they have tried to move on when their daft old-fashioned ways were criticised. Maybe it would actually benefit Maharaji to embrace more publicity and take his place in society with a brave face rather than always avoid the limelight.

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Date: Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 13:54:36 (GMT)
From: Lord Gnome
Email: None
To: Anon
Subject: Hear, hear!!
Message:
Bloody too right, john!! The 'Eye' is just about the last bastion of civilisation in the known universe. Anybody who says otherwise has their head up their arse.

Gnome

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Date: Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 05:01:46 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek™
Email: drek@oz.net
To: Typical British tabloid
Subject: let's talk about journalism
Message:
Ok, I don't know much about the British press other than some stereotypes where it might be a very aggressive no holds barred dirt slinging and even the Queen and the dead Princess Diana is fair game.

And whoever you are I assume that your post is ridiculing the aggressive style of journalism practised in Britain and its victims, yes, no?

Skip all of that. Let's just say that 100% of that story is true, then what?

I'll tell you what!

I'd say that you've jumped quickly into the breach to implement a damage control strategy to avoid dealing with any of the real issues within that possibly or possibly not hoax of an article. Again, we're going to assume for the sake of discussion that the entire article is valid.

Kinda paints your newspaper boy Cainer as a bit of a heavyweight greedy egocentric acrimonious k-niving (sp) freaknoid is what I'd say. And that points on up, or is that on down, the sewer where your precious Maharaji is sitting or is that wallowing. And your boy Maharaji got some of Cainer's stench on him now. Hell, I'd say that these two egocentric greed-freaks have spontaneously mutated and have developed a symbiotic relationship where their shit is the other one's milk. If Cainer (or Gallwey or some shady therapist or whomever) could just use his influence to send more people to Maharaji then Maharaji might ease up on Astrology and send more people to Cainer. Oh, excuse me, I'm not playing fair here, am I?

Regardless, fact is that both of your heroes are getting some bad press. Hell, any press for Maharaji is bad. Maharaji cannot use his Gulfstream to get far and fast enough away from the press, can he? Even a rocket to Russia with a specially molded seat for Maharaji's fat ass won't be good enough for him to escape our criticism. This Internet stuff is milliseconds fast.

And why can't Maharaji handle the scrutiny of the press? Easy, because he stinks up and down, in and out, and every which way the compass or shit detector can point to. Maharaji's scam cannot endure the light of day for one second. If people could see his Malibu house right now they'd charge up that hill like it was Dr. Frankenstein's castle. It's obscene how much money both of these guys have scammed through mumbo jumbo new age fucking bullshit that has led so very many people so far astray and so far away from themselves that besides just fucking up their lives some people became so lost that they even killed themselves. I repeat: killed themselves!

And bullshit that Maharaji has helped so many thousands of people and made a big difference in their lives. The retention rate has got to be less than 5%. What does that say about this Master and his message and his Knowledge? What? That those 95% didn't give it a fair chance? That the 95% were deluded, insincere, spiritually inferior, had their ability to think destroyed because of a lifetime of reading British tabloids?

Sure, if you think so. Sure, if you say so. Sure, if there is no one to say anything different. Sure, if there is no vocal dissent or opposing opinion. Sure, if we were just to all shut the hell up and hide in our Internet basements and quietly and rationally discuss this only amongst ourselves away from all the noise and clamor that may be encountered in a battle such as this.

Fuck that!
We saw what you did
and we know who you are!

It's time to stand up and say something about a greedy twisted bastard who is responsible for screwing up thousands of lives with his turnabouts, his illegal activities, his hiding and spiriting out of the country of criminals, and his sick stunted philosophy that he used to impart while wearing a Krishna costume pretending he was God sitting high upon a throne. And now he is beaming his sick message from on high from satellites.

And you say something is wrong with the British tabloids?

And sure I'm so full of conspiracy theories that I'll go out on a limb to say that Maharaji might have secret operatives wearing different hats and disguises to try to fuck with our little protected by the First Amendment forum here. Maybe not, but wouldn't hurt to try. Even if Maharaji didn't have a finger in that pie we know, absolutely know that there are a few premie characters who have taken it upon themselves to play with our little heads. Heck, that's why half the people we used to have are in hiding because this place gets weird. Oh, but that's just me, isn't it? Yeah, that's right.

Sorry, everyone. I got a bit carried away. Must be the overdose of MSG in the take-out I just ate. I'll pay later with a serious headache. Just don't have that English reserve. Too much of that Yank in your face thing.

And I know that I've blown it now and the PAMs will never come over and turn themselves in and confess their crimes against the all little people. Fat chance on that! They're all sitting pretty being errand boys for rich organic grocery clerks, their management consulting, their sheep ranching on their own private Idaho ranches and herb farms, and their Astrology gigs. Besides they get front row seats in Amaroo. Give all that up for fifteen minutes of unqualified respect here? Are you nuts?

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Date: Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 14:23:34 (GMT)
From: Lord Gnome
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek™
Subject: The Press, God Bless 'Em
Message:
I won't have a word said against 'Private Eye'.

Some things are bigger than religion and God stuff. The 'Eye' is one of them. Literature of the stature of Swift and Twain pales into insignificance agaist the grandeur of this delightful rag. It is quite simply the best publication in the world.

Gnome.

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Date: Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 06:33:57 (GMT)
From: Sad watching you spin
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek™
Subject: uncontrolably into some vortex
Message:
No really, you're getting worse every day. Sucking you in, and eating away. Wonder where you'll end up Roger.
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Date: Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 06:50:57 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek™
Email: drek@oz.net
To: Sad watching you spin
Subject: yes, you're right, Rob
Message:
yes, I don't know where I'm going. It is like a vortex in here. It's warm, a little moist, too. Yes, I'm being sucked in and there's eating going on. Oh my god, Rob, I'm an earwhig and I'm tunneling into your brain. It's so toxic in here and I'll never get out alive. Ah, nor will you, my friend. For before I die I will lay my eggs of doubt within you and you will be torn apart by the madness of the lingering doubt that you've wasted your time with your fraudulent master while he's up there on that hill of his or up in that jet flying on autopilot while being ever so gently serviced as he sits upon his golden molded to his ass flying crapper.
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Date: Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 14:34:34 (GMT)
From: Lord Gnome
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek™
Subject: Punctuation
Message:

Lord Gnome responded:
Dear boy, I rarely preach but I must protest, really. Tsk, tsk!

Lord Gnome

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Date: Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 19:55:57 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek™
Email: drek@oz.net
To: Lord Gnome
Subject: I offer no defence
Message:
Lord, you will see that I used the English spelling of 'defence' in your honor.

I offer no defence for my grammar. I am grammatically dyslexic. Had it not been for this handicap my college boards would have gotten me into Harvard on full scholarship. I attended Nebraska Wesleyan University in Lincoln and have a career as an assistant manager at a convenience store in Boise, Idaho in addition to my day job at the pulp plant.

Nor have I ever been very fond of following rules that were imposed upon me by others, my Lord.

Frankly, my Lord, I don't give a damn.

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Date: Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 22:43:14 (GMT)
From: Gnome
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek™
Subject: I offer no defence
Message:

Gnome responded:
Dear Mr eDrek,

Thankyou for your most drole and amusing reply.

I think we've all had quite enough of all that 'Lord' stuff for a bit, haven't we.

May I recommend the highly laudable 'Private Eye' website?

What in heavens name is a 'pulp plant'? Not some sort of intoxicating weed I trust. God forbid.

sincerely,

Gnome.

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Date: Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 12:02:26 (GMT)
From: Christopher
Email: None
To: Gnome
Subject: The word is 'droll' m'lud.(nt)
Message:
That wasn't very funny
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Date: Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 13:32:53 (GMT)
From: Gnome
Email: None
To: Christopher
Subject: Immediate Death
Message:
Dear Christopher,

Well done! You were the only one to pass the deliberate mistake test. You may now commit Hari-Curry.

E.Strobes

pp Lord Gnome

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Date: Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 16:07:09 (GMT)
From: The accused
Email: None
To: Gnome
Subject: Stay of execution?
Message:

The accused responded:

Might the prisoner be permitted one last request, m’lud?

(By the way, that black cap really does look very fetching on you...)

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Date: Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 18:45:50 (GMT)
From: Captain Gnome
Email: None
To: The vindicated
Subject: No last requests
Message:

Captain Gnome responded:
Christopher,

No last requests. You are a free man.

Live long and prosper, earthling.

Captain Gnome of the Fleet Street Enterprise

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Date: Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 20:33:02 (GMT)
From: Christopher-now a.k.a CQG
Email: None
To: Captain Gnome
Subject: No last requests
Message:

Christopher-now a.k.a CQG responded:
What??? Has Lord Gnome has finally gone where no-one has gone before - and been promoted to Cpt. Spacecase?

Fear not, Captain, the mental stability of this Earthling has the word 'endurance' stamped all over it (and i've still got the bootmarks to prove it).

I wished to make a last request, viz. to bequeath all worldy goods (well, overdrafts mainly) to the Private Eye Libel Defence Fund.

Permission granted, mon capitaine?

(And please feel free to address me as CQG - Q for Quartus, don'tcha know?)

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Date: Sat, Jan 22, 2000 at 15:56:21 (GMT)
From: Gnome
Email: None
To: CQG aka Quarterly
Subject: Yer new nom de ploom
Message:

Gnome responded:
Carry on, CQG.

Gnome

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Date: Sat, Jan 22, 2000 at 16:40:37 (GMT)
From: CQG
Email: None
To: Gnome
Subject: Wilco, captain - sah! (nt)
Message:
Dismiss!
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Date: Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 22:47:31 (GMT)
From: Gnome
Email: None
To: Gnome
Subject: http://private-eye.co.uk
Message:
I left the address out.
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Date: Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 22:58:49 (GMT)
From: Gnome
Email: None
To: Gnome
Subject: http://www.private-eye.co.uk
Message:
I left out the WWW.
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Date: Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 07:07:06 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek™
Email: drek@oz.net
To: Gnome
Subject: You could use a syntax lesson
Message:
Gnome,

Life is so, so beautiful because we have some much love that we can share. And there is so much we can help each other with, too.

A pulp plant or pulp mill is one of the most crucial industrial facilities to any modern society. It is possible that electronic records and communication might supplant the need for pulp mills, but then we'd have to live like Indians (subcontinent India) and not use toilet paper.

Pulp mills consume inputs of water, some magic chemicals, and fibrous plant materials that could and should include the much misarranged cannabis plant, which has vastly superior yields per acre of fiber than the overused and over harvest forest products. The output is fiber products like newsprint, paper, cardboard, toilet paper, and more along with a horrid sweet sickly rotten egg stench that you will never forget. Of course, now there is recycling that reduces the need for real tree fibers.

I believe that a long time ago there was a fairly prosperous civilization in Egypt or Libya that consumed reed based fiber for paper. Something happened to the supply of reeds and the economy and the civilization collapsed. Sort of like Y2K.

Another tidbit about pulp mills was the Amazon fiasco. Forgot who built the plant, maybe the Japanese, but they invested something like a billion dollars U.S. sometime in the 1980s. One reason for the Amazon location was the proximity of raw materials. However, there was a serious miscalculation and the whole thing was a bust.

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Date: Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 06:25:38 (GMT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: david@xyzx.freeserve.co.uk
To: Roger eDrek™
Subject: let's talk about journalism
Message:
I dunno, you'd have to pay me one hell of a lot of money to get me to sit on the front row of a Maharaji program. I'd only do it if I could wear a Sony walkman and listen to 'The Yes Album' full blast while Maharaji was talking and if I could wear very dark sun-glasses or preferably a blindfold. I'd do that for £10,000.

Why these guys want to sit on the front row, beats me.

By the way, that was a good post of yours there. The other guy got it wrong; 'Private Eye' is a satirical magazine and not a tabloid. I don't read any newspapers but get all my news from TV and radio. Mind you, I do read Private Eye from time to time. It's a thinking man's comic. Funny but with real life exposes and serious dirt digging.

Now even in Europe, the British press has a reputation of being like a ferocious pack of wolves, ready to tear anyone apart. That is true because they reckognise there's money in dirt, or as they say in the North of England, 'Where there's muck there's brass.'

Now Maharaji has a lot to fear from the British press. If they can bring down governments, which they've done several times in recent years, if they can crucify Prime Ministers even if they are called Margaret Thatcher, then they can very easily do a hatchet job on a little jumped up Indian man who once claimed to be God and had thousands of slaves toiling for his every whim.

The British Press are particularly ruthless in their character assassination and even Princess Diana fell prey to their slings and arrows. Well to be true, she tried to manipulate the press but it backfired on her when they wouldn't go away when she wanted them to. How can you manipulate a raging Rotweiler? Once the press hounds have their teeth into you, they won't let go!

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Date: Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 06:44:19 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek™
Email: drek@oz.net
To: Sir Dave
Subject: more synchronicity Sir D.
Message:
Just today I was wondering where you were.

Glad to see you.

Love your stuff too. There's much one can learn from your English reserve.

I saw that movie last night which I won't name, but it's set in London. I allowed myself the fantasy that the main male character was like you. Or perhaps the supporting male, the more reserved gentleman. And no way I'd ever confuse you with the female lead, played by a Yank.

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Date: Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 03:19:38 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek™
Email: drek@oz.net
To: Typical British tabloid
Subject: U mean crap like Astrology nt
Message:
wish that subject field was bigger
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Date: Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 02:06:26 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: drek@oz.net
To: Nigel
Subject: Instant **Best** Is this true?
Message:
God, I wish the subject field was long and I didn't have to scrunch it up like that. Nevertheless ***Best***™ and **Best**™ are trademarks of Roger eDrek™. One day I will be big enough to have my own astrologer and I will take 75% of the phone line action.

Holy Christ! Is this real? Where did you get this? Can you get a picture of the goblin faced Cainer?

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Date: Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 03:34:34 (GMT)
From: bb
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: Instant **Best** Is this true?
Message:
I have to agree Drekmaster, it is a halarious piece and
deserveing of a ***Best*** rateing.

Seems like a piece from SPY magazine.

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Date: Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 23:46:06 (GMT)
From: michael
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: it ain't the same
Message:
I went to a 'video event' last night here in Portland, OR. I went for two reasons. One, to see if any of my old friends were there. Two, to see what the 'message' was these days.

I got there a little late and the video was already running. So, I had to sit through the thing until the house lights came up. The video was of hans jayanti '99 and was shot in India.

So, I just sat there and listened to this guy spout off about how the mind is bad, the world is an illusion, knowledge is blissful and the teacher gives you the knowledge. Same old stuff without the 'bhole shri satguru dev kijai' that we used to do in the seventies. It was the old surrender your life to me thing repackaged to make it seems a little smoother.

It was then and still is (what m espouses) more mind control than anything else. Keep coming back for more folks. Your are better off with me than in the world - blah blah blah.

Some of the footage was of the 80,000 or so Indian people attending. Though the sound was down, I could see some of them saying satguru. Guess that's the way they like to see prem pal over there.

Well, after the video was over and the lights came up, I saw that none of my old friends were there. So, I just laughed out loud at the absurdity of it and left.

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Date: Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 01:22:42 (GMT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: michael
Subject: it ain't the same
Message:
Dear Michael,
I was just a reading along and when I got to the end of your post I laughed right out loud too!
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 20:55:04 (GMT)
From: who knows
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: statistic update
Message:
Statistics from Maharaji.org (as of today)

English: 1,444,738
Spanish: 114,785
Italian: 18,453
French: 31,745
German: 13,550
Hindi: 8548

Total: 1,631,819

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Date: Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 21:48:00 (GMT)
From: Roger Brimstone eDrek™
Email: None
To: who knows
Subject: M don't believe in sa-tistics
Message:
Fool, if you've been listening to Maharaji you should know that he has said, probably more than once, that he does not believe in sa-tistics. Hell, he cannot even pronounce the word correctly much less understand what it means.

Statistically speaking, without a legend your numbers have no meaning and are presented outside of any meaningful context. But, that's to be expected from Maharaji and his minions. Maharaji abuses not only statistics, but his premies as well.

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Date: Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 00:02:19 (GMT)
From: Idotted Crosst
Email: None
To: Roger Brimstone eDrek™
Subject: sa-distics don't lie (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 00:15:13 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek™
Email: drek@oz.net
To: Idotted Crosst
Subject: Maharaji is the master sadist
Message:
had the subject box been a bit longer
if ended with an (NT) and finished stronger
you would not have lost part of your day
because that's all I wanted to say
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Date: Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 00:58:11 (GMT)
From: I.+T
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek™
Subject: Maharaji is the master sadist
Message:
Ain't maharaji just so second rate?
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Date: Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 19:02:07 (GMT)
From: carol the courgeous
Email: to post here again!
To: Everyone
Subject: Find your Porpoise
Message:
I know most of the history, about The premie world and about M. I am aware that there were very miserable and detestable things that happened in our premie world, and still happen I would guess, the same as they do in the bigger world we live in! This caca happens everywhere all the time!

Does this mean you should discount the original search for truth and meaning and real love that propelled you/ us to become the devotees of a 13 year old boy from India!!! I say No! It also doesn't mean that because you see the shit, you have to roll in it, until the stench never leaves you!

There is something happening right here, right now in every moment. When you have eyes to see it and ears to hear it; it can take you right into another 'world' in which you can recognize that there are diamonds in the rust: the bum on the street or the crazy homeless guy or girl may well be closer to the truth of their existence than you or I! It does not matter what happened before except for what it can show you, with fresh clear eyes,
about yourself!

Some things are too serious to take seriously! (Quote is from a physicist guy I read about.)

And speaking of science: A diamond is formed when enough heat and high compression is placed upon black coal!!! Metaphors for your spiritual life are everywhere! Some of us, myself included, have been/are now being, re-formed in spirit by heat and pressure (by abuses and pain and all the 'bad' experiences!)into something that feels more clear and solid than everbefore. Some of us seem to be drawn to these experiences (or are graced to be given
them by whatever or whoever created us.) 'Bad' experiences can cause us to hit bottom enough times that we finally figure out how to swim to the air just before we drown! I am one of those. I am was a lost sheep. It doesn't matter whether you or I followed the right master or not! It only matters what you do with what you know.

Will you take on the role of a persecuted victim or will you take on the role of the abuser and make damn sure no one abuses you again or gets close to your heart. (These are both common acting out behaviors of people with histories of abuse. They are indicators of a need for therapy, as are various kinds of addiction and self-abuse!) Getting really mean and angry can create a thick armor, but what seems to work to protect you also stands as a shield preventing the flow of 'good' things into and out of your life! If you embrace or get caught (if you view yourself as a victim and take the passive form),either role, you are probably going to be tossed and turned in the breakers indefinitely...or until you choose to swim either to solid ground or out to a calmer sea! (For anyone who saw the Satellite of
M last Sunday, I am borrowing an analogy of his about the waves and breakers and modifying it a bit to fit my point!)

That calmer sea may turn out to be the transition to the next dimension...you know, the afterlife, or to or ashes or compost if there is no afterlife!!

Heaven and Hell and Peace are right here on earth, in our own lives. There is no judge but youabout which state you are in now. I suspect many folks who even care to come and argue
this kind of stuff are in limbo, uncertain of anything! (Desperate sometimes, like Des Perado if he is a real person, or like I was when I had to throw all of my old concepts away and leave the counsel of all the people in my life... who didn't know me the way I knew myself, and I was left empty and parched and bereft, for a while! I certainly got a lot of support from
Jim Heller to throw out all of my beliefs of a spiritual nature!!! Some of you really helped me through that time by your humor and sincerity, but Jim's challenges were helpful to me,
too. I learned to find the water to quench my thirst and is is my own well.

If you hit bottom:
You have to swim up to get the life-giving air! Then..... when you can breathe freely again at the surface, you get to decide whether you want to carry those stones on your back (or your cross!) or to let them go and swim freely. Choose to swim,
and benevolent forces will appear at your side, like porpoises! Gently and humbly offering
companionship, while you find your purpose and your position!

Porpoises! Wishing you a porpoise! (- ;

I chose love!! I PREACH love. Please, forgive me my exuberance!
I know you, to the degree that I know myself, my 'real',sincere and open self; and we are very much the same, because we are human! I am happy and want you to be happy too!

This is my testimonial: Join with the multitudes of a new silent majority (along with some of us outspoken ones) to help create a more loving and fair world. Please, take some heartfelt advice, and do this exercise: find someone every day that you can give something to that they need, if only a smile or an understanding nod or a friendly word (or a lucky coin!!!)! All the pain and anger and self-righteousness that you are holding tightly onto is like a stone that carries you to the bottom of the ocean, let it go and you can fly in the air!

I used to rage and grieve and shake my fist against a God that would create a world so full of ignorance and suffering! Has the world changed really? Or have I changed my view of it all! In the midst of suffering are the seeds of joy. They are two sides of one coin.
Tradgedy/Comedy, suffering/joy!
If you experience extremes of either, you are closer to
recognizing that they are one. Some wounded people believe for a time that you cannot have love without pain! I was one of them! I sort of measured my love by the degree of pain it caused me! The more I loved the more pain of separation or loss I felt! Wrong! Love can be known that has no pain. It is unconditional and we have access to it to give and take. Who gives to whom?

There is only one presence and one power in the universe(remember the definition: universe = one word). In examining our
differences, try to discover the wonder of the miracle of life expressing itself! The state of happiness is often just a matter of feeling grateful for all you have and all you can be and
do with all of your individual resources.

I see a blind man/woman and am grateful to see! I see a deaf man/woman and am grateful to hear, I see an angry man/woman and I am grateful to love and understand, I see a poor person and am grateful to have enough, I am grateful to have more than
enough so I can share, I see a busy person and I am grateful for time and use some of my time to help others! Thinking of others and helping them or sharing with them is the best tool for healing all your damaged parts until you feel whole!

From the movie 'American Dream': 'I wouldn't want to miss one moment of my stupid
little life!'

With all the love in my heart I ask you each (who choose to read this all the way through) to let it all go and move into a new state of mind in which you can again search for the meaning of your life. Find something to do that gives you *life* and go for it, whatever it is, only you can know and only you can make it happen. It is helpful to cultivate friendships with like-minded people who can be supportive to you. Drop the relationships
that suck you dry or net you into negative thinking!

If you want to receive supportive positive messages that a network of people (the silent majority of people who love people, rather than religions) are sending each other all over the world by e-mail, I'd be happy to put you on my e-mail list and forward to you whatever seems to me to be worthwhile 'good news' in the form of stories, quotes and jokes which are forwarded to me!

I am leaning toward choosing that kind of communication more than coming and checking out Forums, so if I disappear from here, that is why! Plus, I can't spend hours here at my keyboard and still be able to do all the other things I have committed to do and that I love doing! There are many other places and states of mind to experience than where you are right now, both with the click of a mouse and by going out of your house and encountering
people, and trying to find and follow your values!

May the wind be always at your back or under you wings, may wolves run beside you,
may porpoises swim beside you!

Love Carol

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Date: Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 22:19:06 (GMT)
From: is a premie!
Email: None
To: carol the courgeous
Subject: Carol IS a premie
Message:
Yeap. Painted with many colors... but a premie
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Date: Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 19:37:53 (GMT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: carol the courgeous
Subject: Find your Porpoise
Message:
Carol: '...I am aware that there were very miserable and detestable things that happened in our premie world, and still happen I would guess, the same as they do in the bigger world we live in! This caca happens everywhere all the time!'

So, does this make it ok to offer the 'ultimate' and hoodwink people into thinking that you are somehow the lord of the universe? Does the fact that our politicians suck as leaders make it ok for me to suck as a leader? Carol, this is faulty thinking in the extreme. Just because the 'world sucks' doesn't make it ok for someone to make it worse! I absolutely abhor the term, 'Stuff Happens!' It's the ultimate cop-out. Stuff doesn't just happen..... we have proven that spontaneous generation is bull.... everything has a cause and an effect.

Your other quote: '...Drop the relationships that suck you dry....' YOU are so right.... that's what I did! M was sucking me dry; nothing left; nada! He didn't, hasn't and will not actually give me anything. It was, is and always will be mine (whatever 'it' is). Why should I feel gratitude to someone that said they would show me god and then renegged? Why should I show gratitude to someone who 'gave' me something that was already mine? Why should I show gratitude to someone who garners my 'love, gratitude and devotion' under false, VERY FALSE, pretenses? Why should I show gratitude to someone who just wants my money? Last, but not least, why should I show gratitude to someone who could care less about non-premie humanity?

I told you before about my 'experiences' prior to M. All he and his minions did was try to hijack those experiences and make it seem like they came from M..... so I should show him gratitude for receiving something he had absolutely nothing to do with???? Hmmmmmm.....

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Date: Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 20:25:31 (GMT)
From: Evergreen
Email: None
To: Mike
Subject: Find your Porpoise
Message:
Mike.....The Journey goes on Post M....leave the past behind...and pick up whatever good you can pick up from it....but our original goal of seeking Truth or God or whatever it was that drove us to M....that goal must still be and is valid regardless of the experiences we had with one , two or three ....'teachers'....If we can take ourselves apart and put ourselves togther ten times a day...then yes we can change ourselves...if we dont have the capacity to do that...then we are stuck with ourselves for ever...that is a real bore...the magic of life is ever changing ever new...good and bad experiences mold us and condition us and change us....Those who survive this maze of crap...cut right thro' and change themselves and rediscover themselves constantly....everything around us changes and so we must too...

The bad guys will always be here...and worse to come...in 100 years from now..people will be greatfull to live in our century....that is the way of things....but just remember all the good guys who fought and went under..John Lennon, Martin Luther King, Bruce Lee....the bad guys always seem to win and they get badder and badder ....but the real winners are those who keep their spirit intact and cut thro the shit...just dont let all this stuff touch you, for you will sink with it too...yes its difficult....but thats what we have to do...

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Date: Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 20:22:22 (GMT)
From: carol
Email: None
To: Evergreen
Subject: Find your Porpoise
Message:
Thanks Evergreen, whoever you are! That's the main point I'm trying to make here! As for me, I know that in regard to my posts, some lyrics to a song popped into my mind:

'Well it's all right now, I've learned my lesson well, you can't please everyone, so you better please yourself!'

This is a Forum full of numerous arguments and rebuttals...it has been very helpful to me to engage myself with others here to figure our what pleased my self! I hope it will helpful to others....but it can become addictive.....and it can re-enforce negative thinking habits and give peer support to a person's state of mind that includes a victim mentality, defined as 'life is happening to you!' that I personally view as the opposite of healing. I have embraced a practice of mind which has led to my greater healing which says: 'Live is proceeding from me!' In other words the thoughts I think and the way I interpret the things that happen in life is directly related to what my experience of my life is to me. It doesn't matter who we allign ourselves or what other people call us, when we are following our inner guidance exclusive of peer pressure! And hopefully making choices for the greater good!

The worst part of this process for me was when, for awhile after changing my concepts and rejecting M and all my old concepts about spirtit, God, and so on; I also 'threw the baby out with the bath water' and lost my faith in anything and everything. I was also experiencing biochemical depression at the time, which has since been treated by a very good doctor. I now have faith in that thing that I call 'God' which is stronger than it has ever been, and I am confident that that power is benevolent and will help guide me from the inside whenever I am open. My practices and thoughts help me to stay open. I wish the same for others.

Respectfully, carol

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Date: Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 22:01:53 (GMT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Evergreen
Subject: Flipper's my favorite porpoise
Message:
EG: I've been responding to several of your posts that say virtually the same thing. I HAVE moved on..... that's what this is all about!

The 'experiences' to which I refer in my post to Carol are very personal and VERY powerful. They had nothing to do with 'other teachers.' I have described these experiences in the past, but don't care to elaborate right now. M had nothing to do with them and, as I discovered over these many years, never will have anything to do with them. Suffice it to say that I KNEW what I was looking for.... it wasn't a guess. It wasn't based on what someone else said nor was it based upon a book. I'd seen it, heard it and felt it! What technique did I use? I'll tell you... I was on a very long hike of the length of the Grand Canyon and at a particular site we chose to camp, there was a pattern on one of the 'temples' (I won't say which one) that attracted my attention. I concentrated/meditated on it for awhile and ........ the rest is my own personal internal history! Yes, my 'technique' was a yantra, I guess! No eyeball squeezing, no sticking my thumbs in my ears, no concentrating on my breathing, no snot-tasting! So, should I now do pranam to the Grand Canyon? I think maybe I should! Well, at least the canyon doesn't ask me for anything in return (except maybe my respect and some stewardship when I'm there)! Of course, I'm being facitious. This occurred long before I ever knew M existed. So, due to that fact, is the 'experience' a fake? According to some premies... YES! According to other premies, 'It came from M' and, to add some spiritual ego into the mix, I was somehow 'chosen' for an early experience of K..... now isn't that 'special!' Can you say, H.I.J.A.C.K.?

Now, as to a statement you made in your post, '...then we are stuck with ourselves for ever....' My friend, 'ourselves' is ALL WE HAVE! ALL the books say THAT! Jeez! What exactly is it that you are looking for????? To be someone else???? You are what you are and that's all you are (whatever that is, exactly)!

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Date: Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 21:31:56 (GMT)
From: Roger Brimstone eDrek™
Email: drek@oz.net
To: Evergreen
Subject: Tuna, the chicken of the sea
Message:
First, I'm relieved that Mike has addressed a few of Carol's points directly. No better person to deal with New Age mumbo jumbo than Mike.

Also, this commonly seen phrase from Carol or Evergreen is striking:

our original goal of seeking Truth or God or whatever it was that drove us to M....that goal must still be and is valid regardless of the experiences we had with one , two or three ....'teachers'

Bullshit!

Bullshit because research shows that amongst cult members there is a higher than expected number of people who have come from an abusive life situation and other traumatic event prior to their involvement. Isn't that obvious, no offense to anyone here, from some of the horror stories we've read here at the forums. And we may be a self-selected population from another self-selected population, but you don't need a weather man to know which way the wind blows.

Carol may call it getting clobbered at the bottom of the ocean or a noble thirst to know god or whatever. But, it may be as simple as a permanent or temporary period of being weak, confused, and vulnerable.

Ah, but the noble quest for God and truth sells so much more toothpaste.

While Carol may have many ardent followers here, I find her posts tiresome.

What does it mean that I cannot read posts such as Carol just posted?

How encrusted am I with my impenetrable armor?

Sorry, but this magical thinking smells like teen guru spirit to me. Who am I, being the meanest and most vile personality on the Forum, to argue with such flowery phrases that evokes falling asleep in the poppy fields on the journey to the Emerald City to see the Wizard of Oz for the purpose of asking him to help get me back home to Kansas?

Nay, should I not be reading reverently and attentively to find the panacea for all of my life's dilemmas here? Gosh, now that you mention it I realize that I am a miserable human being in great need. I am empty and am ready for my vessel to be, once again, filled.

Carol, how many new age magical thinking vehicles have you hitched your wagon to to bring you to this exalted place? NLP, crystals, I'm ok, you're ok, EST, Amway, Astrology, Aromatherapy, Tarot, Wicca, Psychic Phemomena, UFOs, ESP, Parapsychology, Pagan, Mysticism, Mythology, Psychology, Consciousness, Sexuality, Metaphysics, Angels, Channeling, Philosophy, Yoga, Reincarnation, Alchemy, the Enneagram, Kabbalah, Tantra, Auras, Chakras, Meditation, Holistic and Alternative Health, Deepak Chopra, Feng Shui, etc.

Or have you been exclusively faithful to Maharaji?

And how many other new age trips will you eventually dabble in down the road?

Not that I do not believe in growth and change, but I do believe in hucksters and fads.

No, I find this tripe to be vacuous and very pretentious. It is reminiscent of some other infamous and notorious posters who have come to satsang us into higher consciousness.

Tis better to reign in hell than serve in heaven.

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Date: Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 01:24:13 (GMT)
From: Lucifer
Email: None
To: Roger Brimstone eDrek™
Subject: Is that so?
Message:
Tis better to reign in hell than serve in heaven.

Who made YOU boss?

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Date: Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 02:12:20 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek™
Email: drek@oz.net
To: Lucifer
Subject: Is that so?
Message:
Who made YOU boss?

You did! You promised me that if I was to denounce Maharaji that I'd be a King in Hell, well at least the Internet Division.

Come on, Lucy, I need to get my share of that Internet cash. Who cares if the PE is higher than 80 or infinite in the case of negative earnings? I wanna be a Dot Com IPO dude sipping a foo-foo drink on my private Idaho island in the South Pacific. Ok, it's a little too hot and stinks of brimstone, but I can live with that. It can't be worse than catching a whiff of those stinky lotus feet through those $80 a pair socks HE wears.

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Date: Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 02:23:48 (GMT)
From: B. Bub
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek™
Subject: Is that so?
Message:
Lucy is an upstart. I am the real thing. Lucy just got setup to take the fall. And IT is still sore about it. I got more goodies - you get more rupees for having less scruples! Interested?
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Date: Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 03:42:45 (GMT)
From: bb
Email: None
To: B. Bub
Subject: Is that so?
Message:
huh?
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Date: Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 05:09:41 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek™
Email: drek@oz.net
To: bb
Subject: What will my friends think?
Message:
B. Bub, can you float me a little good faith loan while we hash out the particulars? I've got this brother, ya see, and he...
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Date: Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 05:53:46 (GMT)
From: B. Bub
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek™
Subject: What will my friends think?
Message:
If you understatnd that your friends should be told what to think, if your 'brother' won't fall in line, if the huddled masses yearning to be free owe you, yes I think we can deal.

I await your response.

Sincerely,
B. Bub, POL (Prince of Lies)

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Date: Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 21:26:27 (GMT)
From: Christopher
Email: None
To: Evergreen
Subject: Something fishy going on ...
Message:
So we've served our purpose here have we, Evergreen - and Carol, - and 'should' move on?

That WOULD be convenient for Rawat, wouldn't it? The opposition packs up and splits 'cos of a little bit of satsang! (well-intentioned, no doubt)

To some extent, I guess this website has served - (oops, still continues to serve, I should have said) its purpose. It has effectively (for those who have access to the Web) hung a bloody great placard around the Maha's neck that says:

'WATCH OUT!.
Dodgy motives'

Any would-be follower interested enough to find out more about him is only 'a few mouse-clicks away' from discovering that his credibility is decidedly dodgy.

And then there's the added bonus of the Forum, where those going through the often difficult process of weaning themselves away from dependence on the Maha can, (at least on a good day!) get some real support and feedback from some pretty damn decent human beings. Real people who can relate to the plethora of emotions that surface when premies wake up to the horror of realising that they've been taken for a ride.

You got a problem with that, Mr/Mrs Evergreen?

............................ .......................

............................ .......................

............................ .......................

(Yeah, and I know a porpoise is a mammal)

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Date: Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 21:38:52 (GMT)
From: Roger So Confused eDrek™
Email: None
To: Christopher
Subject: Clearcuts in Evergreen state
Message:
I'm a simple rube and I am confused here.

I read posts that are satsangy or new agey and I trance out and only skim the words.

Is Evergreen a tongue in cheek sarcastic joker or what?

I really don't want to spend the time reading and would appreciate any help I can get.

I see the name, Evergreen, to be a play on words in itself.

P.S. I really wish the Subject field was a little longer.

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Date: Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 04:19:24 (GMT)
From: bb
Email: None
To: Roger So Confused eDrek™
Subject: Clearcuts in Evergreen state
Message:
Hi Roger,
I see ship isms and sometimes I think the satsang
posts are comedy bits.

But I mostly think they are 'real' that is definately
the wrong word to use about them.

By the way, you are a great read.

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Date: Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 05:15:33 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek™
Email: drek@oz.net
To: bb
Subject: Say what?
Message:
bb said:
By the way, you are a great nerd


Roger says:

Thanks, love you too, bb!

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Date: Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 22:02:53 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Roger So Confused eDrek™
Subject: I ain't me, Rog-serious NT
Message:
nt
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Date: Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 17:25:04 (GMT)
From: la-ex
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: satellite video costs
Message:
I'm curious-has anyone checked out what the costs are for a satellite transmission?
I have heard that it costs visions $100,000.00 for a 2 hour block of time.
This sounds awfully high to me-does anyone have any info. on what these costs might actually be?
Also, why do viewers pay visions the $20-30 per person, rather than the satellite company?
I heard that about 8,000 people tuned in to one broadcast this summer-if that was true for the last one, rawat took in about $240,000.00. Even if the costs are $100,000.00 for the time block, he made a cool $140,000.00 for an hours work.
Not too bad, if you can get the work!

Does anyone have more info on how this actually works?
If we do, I think it should be prominently posted somewhere in the site, so new people can know a little more about m's finances...

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Date: Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 21:41:46 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: la-ex
Subject: True costs vs Visions costs
Message:
The satellite channel is almost free: maybe 50 $ per hour

What's expensive is the 'uplink', i.e. sending the feed to the satellite: shouldn't be more than 1,000 $ per hour.

I've got these figures from a satellite transmission expert.

Make your calculation.

Of course Visions/EV paid 100,000 or 200,000 to some other company, who's going to keep the difference and 'donate'' to the maha.

I hope IRS is going to go check this.

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Date: Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 22:29:21 (GMT)
From: Me
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: True costs vs Visions costs
Message:
Who is sending these figures to the IRS? Anybody? I don't want their computers to get overload :-0
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Date: Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 20:29:22 (GMT)
From: Ben Lurking
Email: None
To: la-ex
Subject: satellite video costs
Message:
I imagine some premie 'front' company is billing Visions the 100,000. there are lower 'costs' somehwere below on the board, the rest of the diffeence is in his pocket
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Date: Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 14:52:31 (GMT)
From: Evergreen
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Reality Check
Message:
I just sopped for one microsecond, to experience existance all around me. In that one ms the universe has expanded 10 folds...stars had died and turned into black morass and new ones were born...Flowers opened and some closed...beautifull white tulips and pink roses laughed to the sun....and my heart oulsated inside...my breath has tuned in and out energising every cell in this human body...

It was a long dream....and I awoke...where was I and where I am heading to ..I asked...I pondered and waited for a reply...was I a sinner or a saint....was I a muslim, hindu or a jew...where is my God...will I ever be closer to my God...

Reality turned its Face to Me...Quite and everpresent ...Effulgent Light...Yes I am that I am ... I am and will Always be...This Universe is but my playground...I was a Hidden Treasure and I created this Universe so that I may be Known...I send signs and signals and truths and books...all From Me the Master of All...Yes I sent the Koran and the Bible and the Torah...and Jesus and Moses and Ibrahim and Muhamed and Buddha...and you ask which road shall I take?....The road is not important...but that you travel on a Road that leads to Me...many roads there are...some lead to Me and some lead to nonending paths...you will waste your journey and fall in dispear....

As the master said:
'He who learns nothing in this world, knows nothing in the Next world...all he will have is an apartment in the city of Death'....

So find out why you are here....be the writer of your book...for when the book closes....all will be written and your story will end...

and who do we realy think we are....are we beggers or kings...as the master said when asked by the King on why he spent his time in cemetries:

'I can not tell the difference between the skull of a king and the skull of an ordinary man...maybe oh king you can help me and guide me to this truth....'

So it is that our life will one day end...and the illusion of life will be pulled from our eyes....and where will we be...will we be awakened souls or will we be in ignorance and regret...dont regret every second of your life....take the chance now while you got the chance....it may be too late to tell the tale...as the master of masters said....

' I won by the Lord of this House' when struck with a poisened sword while in prayer....three days he lived and on the final day of the 23rd he died...what did he win ...only he knows....

bye bye to you all and wish you a successful lie...and a Journey to the Source of Light.....

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Date: Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 03:48:12 (GMT)
From: bb
Email: None
To: Evergreen
Subject: So, just ASSUME ??
Message:
The fantasy you embrace, that assumption is reality,
is not true.

It may seem like it has real sounding words supporting that
misperception of life, but sorry try again, you didnt hit it
yet.

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Date: Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 11:43:53 (GMT)
From: Evergreen
Email: None
To: bb
Subject: In the Evergreen Land
Message:
Nor I nor you know what Reality is...we all live in our own little realities...but the Reality of Truth and God cannot be known by our own efforts or our own deeds..this is one of the misconception of modernism and new ageism that God is an 'object' that can be known...anyone who tells you that they can show you God or can make you realise the Reality of God or Truth is under a total misconception...including m...

God cannot be known for only He knows Himself in His Infinity and Subtleness and Totality....what is revealed to us in our own little realities is what we are capable of holding or understanding or opening to...

It stands to reason that if scientists cant even figure out the big bang and how creation came about and what worm holes are and if they exist or not and if super string theory will unify general relativity and quantum physics and ..if ..if ..if.. that surely you cant figure out the Creator if creation is such a difficult puzzle for the best homosapien brains...

But all you need to do is turn to one of the scriptures...pick anyone...lets say the Upanihsads..even though I am not a hindu...clearly says that the Infinite cannot be known by the finite...and that was written few 1000 years ago...you dont need to know about worm holes and superstring theory to figure that out...and believe me they didnt in those days...

So we talk in signs and words from our own realities and live in our own little dreams...and misconceptions about life...commonly known as ignorance...

And as for those of you who are simple minded to attack anyone as a Premie who expounds a belief in God and Mystical experiences...you can continue to live in your own little worlds...and may you happily live there for ever ....

I have not seen m since the mid 80's and I did not come to knowledge from a broken home nor was I seeking a cult...i just wanted to know the Truth..and when I received knowledge, m was not in the picture nor was this heavy hindu - guru trip...it was just about meditation and god realisation, and there was not even an ashram in the west...there were no more then 100 premies in the whole western world..huddled in a cold basement flat in west kensington.....you guys who jumped on the bandwagon later on have taken a heavier trip and a heavier dose...and I packed my bags and split by about that time....so yes I am sorry and I feel for you and hope you will work this stuff out and if this site will help you then fair enough and others too....

See ya all here and there....in the Evergreen Land

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Date: Mon, Jan 24, 2000 at 07:28:20 (GMT)
From: bb
Email: None
To: Evergreen
Subject: In the Evergreen Land
Message:
Hi there Evergreen,
Nice post.
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Date: Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 16:04:11 (GMT)
From: An Occassional Observer
Email: None
To: Evergreen
Subject: Reality Check
Message:
wow...so beautiful ...I..I just don't know what to say(sigh)

ACM

PS Oh by the way what do you think about master who protect paedohilles?

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Date: Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 16:11:32 (GMT)
From: Evergreen
Email: None
To: An Occassional Observer
Subject: Reality Check
Message:
Such a master (note small m) is a piece of dung heap
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Date: Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 16:23:21 (GMT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Evergreen
Subject: Well guess what?
Message:
Evergreen: Your master (small 'm' as you noted) has, in fact, protected one (Jagdeo) and also protected one of his minions (fakiranand) from charges of attempted murder (with a hammer)!

So, what do you think of your master now?

BTW, in case you are inclined to believe that Jagdeo wasn't ever involved or that M doesn't know: One of the persons on this forum was molested by Jagdeo as a child and reported it. I won't say who it was; I'll leave it to them if they are so inclined. Additionally, the fakiranand incident was reported in the news of the time. He was never brought to justice because M spirited him out of the country, rather than have one of his precious mahatmas prosecuted for a crime that left a man maimed for the rest of his life! Aiding and abetting....... NOW THERE's a 'master' for you!

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Date: Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 17:40:55 (GMT)
From: Evergreen
Email: None
To: Mike
Subject: Well guess what?
Message:
Mike....What makes you think that m or M is my master?...Clearly you have not understood what I have written....if becuase of your experiences with M or m ...you have decided to deny yourself mystical/spiritual experiences / yearnings...then I am really sorry..

as for Jagdeio or Fakiranand...I have met Fakiranand and know of Jagdeio...and I am aware of these reports....

All I can say is that the world of Life and Spirituality is much bigger then Fakiranand hitting someone over the head with a hammer...Just leave m or M behind and venture into a new journey...if you cant find the honey among those bush trees ..there are other flowering bushes round the next bend...No good screaming your head off about m or M....that aint gona achieve your goal whatever it may be...but I guess its good therapy if that is what you want.

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Date: Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 23:18:48 (GMT)
From: Roger eDre™
Email: drek@oz.net
To: Evergreen
Subject: Shades of Shp (nt)
Message:
adsf
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Date: Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 07:51:34 (GMT)
From: Shp
Email: None
To: Roger eDre™, bb, EV, etc
Subject: TM: I have to pay to poop?
Message:
Wazzamatter Rog? Slow news day? You gotta dig me up to stay in the conversation? How original.
Drekboy,

I see you have trademarked your own brand of shit. Congratulations! If I have to choose, I'd rather hang with someone who is moving something more inspiring than his mental bowels. Don't get me wrong, taking a good one can be a great experience, but I want more from life than a good shit.

Remember, if you are loose enough to give a shit, then you are probably loose enough to take a shit. Don't forget to wipe!

Evergreen pisses you off because he or she is happy. You hate that, don't you? Misery does love company, eh? And bb critiques Ev's post like he's onthe mountaintop looking down on all the climbers. Arrogant, Bobby. That's not how I remember ya. Do ya remember where ya got the fever?

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Date: Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 18:56:27 (GMT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Evergreen
Subject: Well guess what?
Message:
EG: Assuming for the moment that a 'spiritual journey' is for real, don't you think it's the responsibility of those who've gone down a dead-end to tell others contemplating the same journey? I DO! If I know someone who specializes in hoodwinking those 'travelers' that have their hearts 'open' and vulnerable (due to their honest search for the truth), then YES YES YES, it's my responsibility as a fellow human being to spend somemore time telling those people about the hoodwinker, so that they don't become a hoodwinkee. To do less is inhumane and certainly not 'spiritual!' In fact, it would smack of ultimate selfishness. Again, this is assuming that a 'spiritual journey' is real in the first place, but that's a discussion for another time.

If ONE, just one person doesn't waste their entire life looking down that dead-end street, then I think my time is well spent. In words that you might understand..... maybe it's my karma to do so.... you know..... KARMA YOGA: the yoga of selfless ACTION! The action of which I speak gains me nothing. I'm not going to get rich from exposing my involvment with a fraud. Sounds fairly 'selfless' to me!

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Date: Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 19:40:04 (GMT)
From: Evergreen
Email: None
To: Mike
Subject: Well guess what?
Message:
Mike...I have no problems with what you say....but dont you think you are spending a vast amount of time and effort in your selfless quest....is it really worth spending all this time crying over spilt milk....

I mean m is enjoying his gold toilet seats ...or is it the gold tap basins....by the way you see a lot of these gold plated wash basins in hotels nowdays they are two a penny ( a cent for u in the US of A)...

The point is....if that is what you want to do with your life ...thats fine.....I left m behind way down the road and I have moved on...never looking back...

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Date: Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 20:39:32 (GMT)
From: Christopher
Email: None
To: Evergreen
Subject: There's a difference between:
Message:

Christopher responded:
There's a difference between 'crying over split milk' ... and MOPPING IT UP! (curdled or otherwise).
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Date: Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 22:44:46 (GMT)
From: me
Email: None
To: everyone
Subject: Evergreen is david Mancoff?
Message:
It sounds like him.
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Date: Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 20:58:01 (GMT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Christopher
Subject: Well said, Chris
Message:
Chris: EG doesn't seem to understand that it isn't about crying over spilled milk. It's about showing others how to not spill any! I would be a pretty bad dad if I didn't teach my daughter how to keep from making the same mistakes I have made. I feel the same way about telling the 'other' side of the story about M. I would be remiss if I didn't tell other 'seekers of truth' that M is a fraud.... total and complete fraud!

EG: You sound like one of those numerous premies who come here and say '....move on...' They are just trying to shut us up. They don't like the bad press M gets here. They don't like the 'ripples' in their little pond..... it might 'rock the boat'.... you know.... the one we jumped out of (and were WARNED NEVER, EVER jump out of the boat)! M is a trap, nothing more! Until the pit is filled in, I will stand by it and try to prevent some other hapless victim from falling in. On the off chance that you are 'really' concerned about my spiritual well-being: thank you, I'm doing just fine. :-) I have never felt so free as I do right NOW!!

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Date: Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 21:30:27 (GMT)
From: Christopher
Email: None
To: Mike
Subject: Thanks, & you must be psychic!
Message:

Christopher responded:
Check out 'something fishy going on' above. Variations on a similar theme, I'd say. (Written before I read your post)
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Date: Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 22:05:58 (GMT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Christopher
Subject: No, I'm a 'physic'....
Message:
Chris: I read your post after I wrote this one..... bwah ha ha ha! Well, great 'mr. minds' think alike, ya know..... he he he!
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Date: Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 18:25:15 (GMT)
From: An Occassional Observer
Email: None
To: Evergreen
Subject: You are sanctimoneous
Message:
Clearly you don't understand the purpose of this forum or you wouldn't come here with your spiritual masterbation.

Go drink some more honey.

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Date: Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 08:06:05 (GMT)
From: Shp
Email: None
To: An Occassional Observer
Subject: You ain't a very good observer
Message:
Dear Occasional Observer,

Perhaps you are too occasional, for it is you who do not understand the purpose of this Forum as stated on the Forum Page
of this very site. And we are also warned on that page that there will be negativity (come on now, you know who you are!) and to be aware and prepared for it.

'The Forum is an unmoderated collection of ongoing threaded discussions where ex-premies, current premies, and non-premies express their views on anything and everything related to following Maharaji, practicing Knowledge, and life afterwards.'
-the Forum Page

From a More Astute Observer,
Shp

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Date: Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 11:49:08 (GMT)
From: An Occassional Observer
Email: None
To: Shp is
Subject: The eternal fool
Message:
Still kissing those lotus feet? Still following the great thief?

What have you done about you non-answer from Him regarding paedophillia in his organisation?

Answer: Fuck all......you're full of verbal crap shp...and to think I and many close to me risked their lives for scum like you.
No work that one out!

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Date: Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 22:40:34 (GMT)
From: Shp
Email: None
To: An Occassional Observer
Subject: The eternal now
Message:
Risked your lives? Beg your pardon? Please explain. Or don't.
I'd be interested to hear the rest of your hair-raising experience during which you risked your life for 'scum like me'
but I won't lose any sleep over it if you don't. Truth be told,
you've peaked my interest.
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Date: Sat, Jan 22, 2000 at 00:57:06 (GMT)
From: You never know when to
Email: None
To: Shp
Subject: shut up(NT)
Message:
No text
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Date: Sat, Jan 22, 2000 at 14:39:00 (GMT)
From: Shp
Email: None
To: You never know when to
Subject: you're playing one-upmanship..
Message:
and assuming higher ground with your attitude and snytax.
Be straightforward if you can. I'm not your bitch to slap around. (No offense, ladies.)
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Date: Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 19:41:46 (GMT)
From: Evergreen
Email: None
To: An Occassional Observer
Subject: You are sanctimoneous
Message:
New Zealand Raw Honey is the best I have come across...any suggestions....
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Date: Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 15:32:01 (GMT)
From: Genital Consensualsex
Email: fourstars@generalconcensus.com
To: Evergreen
Subject: The last sentence says it all
Message:
bye bye to you all and wish you a successful lie...and a Journey to the Source of Light.....

Emphasis mine. Yes the Cosmic lie. Was it a typo or his 'true self' sneaking out...and quit using ellipses...they are (TM)

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Date: Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 16:09:49 (GMT)
From: Evergreen
Email: None
To: Genital Consensualsex
Subject: Your name says it all
Message:
Correction... Life...hope that makes you happy...any other spelling mistake is greatfully acknowledged...where is the spellchecker.....

PS My prevous post is Copyright Evergreen 2000

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Date: Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 10:11:05 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek™
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Movie Reviews (not off topic)
Message:
Just got back from the Boise XXX and Art Film Theatre. I didn't have much to do after spending the afternoon clipping coupons and going to the bank to exchange them into lucre. Strolling about town I picked up the paper to check what films were playing. This local and supposedly hip paper gave a highly favorable review to a film whose name I shall not mention because it might tarnish my reputation. It's not like I'm some kind of third man around this place. I do need to carefully consider my reputation and the amount of notoriety that I can claim.

Thus said, after the film I stopped by the pub and had a drink with a bus driver that I know and then I returned home. Onto the Internet to do a reality check with other film review resources. And what should I find that some were favorable, but many were not. And I read some reviews by users at IMDB and most were positive and I felt validated and affirmed, fuzzy and warm. And then I hit a negative user review on IMDB. And my faith was shattered. I didn't like what he/she said. I continued to read and even went back to re-read the parts that I had skimmed over because I could see that it was negative. And then it hit me that much of what was in the negative review was somewhat true. And I went to Chicago Sun Times' Roger Ebert and he really didn't like it and discussed and explored some of the shortcomings, too.

So, did I like it or not? Should I like it? Should I listen to the negative critics and let them influence how I feel inside? Did the movie cheat me in anyway?

I think that unless a movie is really awful that it can use standard dramatic and cinematic devices to successfully draw the viewer into the celluloid fantasy. The script may stink, but the actors/actresses were superb or vice-a-versa. The cinematography good or bad. The music score. Whatever?

And again, if the movie is not an absolute stinker you can get drawn in and feel some connection to it. And with that connection is a personal investment. Hey, and if you paid a lot of money or more than matinee prices your evaluation might be biased from the very start. And if money is not an object then your time should be.

So, in reading the reviews my thinking that had not yet cristalized became clearer. Yes, much in the negative reviews was true. Yes, some of the performances as the postive reviews stated were quite good. Yes, the movie could have been worse. Yes, there was no effort made in the movie to show the characters interacting other than the hot sex scenes to the point where they would have as much love as they professed they did for each other. (Ok, it was a goddamn love story. Roger eDrek™ saw a love story and almost had a tear well up in his eye. I was drunk that night. I was higher than a kite. From Johnny Dowd's No Woman's Flesh But Hers.)

There was a mix of positive and negative reviews. What should I believe? And there was my own feeling, too. Sounds pretty confusing.

So, where the hell am I on this movie. Should I trust that almost tear in my eye? The reviews or what? At this point, it doesn't really matter which way I go on the movie, thumbs up or thumbs down. I read the positive and negative reviews. I went to the movie. I gave it a fair chance. I'm about up to speed as I can be on that movie short of reading the novel. And usually when you read the novel the movie really stinks. I'd say that it was just an ok movie. I'm glad that I read the reviews because it helped me put it into a broader perspective. What the reviewers said made sense to me.

What the fuck does this have to do with Maharaji, you ask?

I really hope that I don't have to connect all the dots on this, but the allegory should be pretty obvious. Are the forums and the other associated webpages hate sites or resources that provide, obviously not a perfect analysis, but at least some kind of critical analysis from another perspective to help people consider what has and is being presented to them by Maharaji, a Hollywood film maker in his own right.

And just the other day Maharaji had a major release of his latest production and already we have analyzed it and offered our opinions on it and Maharaji's continued efforts to retain the faithful and pull in new recruits.

I read a quote from Dorothy Parker yesterday as to her comments in regards upon hearing of the death of American President Calvin Coolidge and Miss Parker said something like, 'Oh, you could tell the difference?' I can only hope that when we get the same news about Maharaji that one of us will be here to repeat that.

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Date: Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 18:02:01 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek™
Subject: Movie Reviews (not off topic)
Message:
If you are talking about Holy Smoke I just read a very favorable review in a magazine I will not mention in order not to tarnish my exemplary reputation around here.
I don't know anything about Kate Winslett, refused to see Titanic.
But I've liked Harvey Keitel in almost everything I've seen him in. so... if it ever comes around I plan to see it.
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Date: Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 23:12:02 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek™
Email: drek@oz.net
To: Selene
Subject: nope, not Holy Smoke (nt)
Message:
adsf
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Date: Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 19:04:03 (GMT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: Movie Reviews(ot of course)
Message:
Dear Selene,
I love Harvey Keitel also, did you see the movie, Breaking the Waves, or Breaking Waves with Emma something I think. I was very out there but I must say I was impressed and pleased by Harvey's frontal nudity mostly because you never see that and I thought it was only right and just.
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 19:29:29 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Robyn
Subject: Movie Reviews(ot of course)
Message:
HA! No I didn't see that movie. I loved him in Pulp fiction and oh dozens, Point of No Return... Thema and Louise.
I can't imagine him doing a frontal nude scene but good for him!
so... tell me... no never mind :)
My mind was not quite in sync yesterday but I believe the review said he plays the deprogrammer. Another but different type of 'cleaner' part for him I guess!
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Date: Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 04:55:50 (GMT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: Movie Reviews(ot of course)
Message:
Dear Selene,
'I can't imagine him doing a frontal nude scene but good for him!
so... tell me... no never mind :)'
I just can't really remember although I do remember rewinding it because I couldn't believe what I saw and wanted to see it again! :) It wasn't even just a quick glimpse!
The movie got to weird for me and I am sure I didn't even finish watching it but I was so good to see that because it is nothing to see a woman but you NEVER see a man!
Love again,
Robyn
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Date: Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 08:43:16 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Here's some excellent links
Message:

General Information about Cults and Spiritual Issues

and

Take the Cult Test: Can you beat the mind control game? by Keith Harary, Ph.D.

Enjoy ...

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Date: Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 15:59:59 (GMT)
From: Shifting
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: The battle for your mind
Message:
Thanks once more JM. I read from those links The Battle for Your mind, which explains brainwashing. Now I can explain better why I got blissed listening to the thief.

Did his father was a thief also? Yeap, there it's again. A lot of victims can be identified. Maharaji, you were dupped too. The problem I have is that you are not a little kid anymore and you should stop what you are doing inmediatly, and very slowly, so the premies don't get sick, you shouls beging to tell the truth. Think about it. Maybe you though about stopping, but you realized that if you did many people would commit suicide. Then, you would end up poor again like you were when you left India; the lawsuits will be too many, and you don't want to be poor, right? There would be so, so many suing you. You have become acustomed to the high life, and so what? Just beging to speak the REAL truth, would you please, so people can enjoy what is left of their lives without your spell. You little wizzard, thief, rolex lover, drunken master, greedy ass: Speak up!

If I knew then what I know today, I would have never received knowledge. Twenty years of my life are gone because I was a 'good' premie: All I did was serve him. Thanks JM.

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Date: Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 10:55:32 (GMT)
From: Charlie
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Here's some excellent links
Message:
While JM is listing good links I thought I might add this one...

Quackwatch

You may think that this medical site is unrelated but I know that as a premie I was hoodwinked by many a Quack premie therapist. As I have regained my processes of critical thinking I have discovered to my horror the full extent to which I've been a sucker.

Charlie

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Date: Mon, Jan 24, 2000 at 00:37:15 (GMT)
From: Special Agent
Email: None
To: Charlie
Subject: Not As It Seems..
Message:
Quackwatch (NCAHF)

NCAHF Posts Names of 2,500 Physicians on Quack List

Originally published July 1997

Lyn Behrens, PhD
President, Loma Linda University
Loma Linda, California 92350

Dear President Behrens:

This letter responds to yours of April 22 in which you responded to a written complaint I
submitted concerning facts and circumstances surrounding acts of suppression of speech at a
public forum held at Loma Linda University. As you know, the forum was under the control
of Loma Linda University professor William Jarvis, PhD. The lecture entitled 'Cancer
Quackery: What You Should Know!' was open to the public and held at the University's Wong
Kerlee Conference Center in the Cancer Research Pavilion. Fliers announcing the event
invited members of the public to attend without charge. Microphones were available for
members of the public who wished to express a view or ask a question.

When I and three others who shared a similar viewpoint rose to correct inaccuracies and
defamatory remarks made by Dr. Jarvis against Dr. Stanislaw Burzynski, Dr. Jarvis refused to
permit us to express these views and ordered University security police to escort three of us
from the lecture hall.

Your letter explains that the matter is under investigation. In that regard, I wish to
supplement the record with additional information. As I pointed out in my original complaint
Dr. William Jarvis is the President of an entity known as the National Council Against Health
Fraud (NCAHF). The University's address property, and stationery have been by Dr. Jarvis in
the performance of hi duties for NCAHF. Records of the NCAHF are housed at his university
office. Dr. Jarvis holds NCAHF events at the University. He makes frequent reference to his
University affiliation while performing duties for his NCAHF.

Dr. Jarvis' NCAHF is a controversial organization whose members crusade across the nation
against specific, named practitioners whom they condemn as 'quacks' or 'frauds' in public
forum, in print, on the air, and in judicial and administrative proceedings. Indeed, Dr. Jarvis
used the facilities of Loma Linda University and its lecture hall to do precisely that at the
recent Loma Linda event. He defamed Dr. Stanislaw Burzynski by implying that he was a
quack and a fraud.

Loma Linda should be deeply concerned that one of its professors has elected to use its
property, its name, and his University affiliation to propagate rank character assassination
and defamation against health care practitioners.

Unfortunately, the NCAHF's anti quackery crusade is subjective and results in defamation
only. Dr. Jarvis and other NCAHF members usually attack the character of their opponents,
rather than the merits of their views. Characteristically, as was Dr. Jarvis' attack on Dr.
Burzynski, NCAHF members harbor ignorance of key facts and frequently lack a professional
understanding of the science of the matter.

At the Loma Linda event, Dr. Jarvis identified Dr. Burzynski as a typical example of a
medical quack and fraud, but failed to mention that after a two month trial Dr. Burzynski was
acquitted of all fraud charges, and not a single witness brought forth by the government to
testify against Dr. Burzynski questioned Dr. Burzynski's motives, character or integrity. He
also failed to mention that for almost six months Dr. Burzynski's antineoplaston therapy has
been undergoing study in several dozen FDA-approved clinical trials, with Dr. Burzynski as
the principal investigator.

Dr. Jarvis chose to attack the honesty, character, integrity, and personal characteristics of Dr.
Burzynski. Such rank character assassination is not only unbecoming of a professional but
also antithetical to educational dialogue at a University. Dr. Jarvis has brought disrepute
upon Loma Linda. His crusade seeks not only to stifle opposing views but also to label those
who express them as frauds or quacks - the very antithesis of higher education. His efforts
convey the impression that Loma Linda University is not a place where academic exchange of
ideas and information is encouraged but one where obvious overt bias and intolerance for
dissenting views predominate.

Unfortunately, the recent incident involving defamation against Dr. Burzynski is not an
isolated event. I offer four items for your investigation that characterize the intent, actions,
and consequences of the NCAHF.

Item 1 - Deposition of Stephen Barrett, MD

The NCAHF recently attacked Dr. Shari Lieberman, RD, PhD, a nutritionist and exercise
physiologist in New York. Two of Dr. Jarvis' fellow NCAHF board members defamed Dr.
Lieberman, again without the benefit of sound science or material facts.

Those NCAHF board members, Dr. Stephen Barrett and Ira Milner, RD, testified against Dr.
Lieberman at a hearing they themselves instigated before the American Dietetic Association
(ADA) which resulted in the ADA publicly stripping Dr. Lieberman of her registered dietitian
(RD) credential. As you would imagine, this caused her loss of prestige and credibility, hurt
her financially, and caused her public humiliation. In their testimony to the ADA, the two
represented themselves to be knowledgeable about several specific aspects of nutrition science,
yet neither had academic training nor publication in those specific areas.

In the end, after the falsity of their charges came to light, the ADA reinstated Dr. Leiberman's
RD credential and published a statement noting same in the ADA's Journal and Courier.

As the attached transcript from the Barrett deposition indicates, NCAHF is a loose cannon
that poses distinct liability risks for the University. Under cross examination, Dr. Barrett
admitted that he was not in fact, an expert in nutrition science, describing himself instead as
an expert in 'consumer strategy' and a 'journalist.' This deposition clearly showed that Dr.
Barrett did not have a thorough grounding in the scientific research relevant to the serious
charges he made against Dr. Lieberman that caused her substantial harm.

Item 2 - Findings of Fact, and Opinion, and Final Adjudication of the
Regents of the University of the State of New York

Victor Herbert, MD, a long-time board member of NCAHF, apparently implemented judicial
proceedings against Warren Levin, MD, in New York State. The proceedings were initially
opened in 1980, apparently due to a complaint by Dr. Herbert against Dr. Levin. The case was
finally adjudicated in Dr. Levin's favor, 14 years later in November 1994. Dr. Levin was forced
to declare personal and professional bankruptcy as a result of the legal costs, but he remained
in medical practice the entire time, and is in full-time medical practice at this time.

Dr. Herbert apparently was the only one who complained about Dr. Levin. There were no
patient complaints. As President of Loma Linda University, you should have particular
interest in the findings of fact, opinions, and adjudication of the Regents of the University of
the State of New York. Their harsh assessment of Dr. Victor Herbert should cause you
considerable concern, as it did me.

Dr. Herbert, long-term NCAHF Board member, was virtually uncontrollable in a court of law.
The Regents noted that 'Dr. V.H. many times in his testimony used inflammatory language,
volunteered characterizations and editorials, offered information which was beyond and not
responsive to the questions posed, subjected respondent and his attorney to ad hominem
attacks, and utilized other tactics to show that respondent was guilty by association with
others.' In spite of numerous sustained objections from Dr. Levin's attorney, Victor Herbert
repeatedly and inappropriately used slanderous terms such as 'liar,' 'quack,' 'obnoxious,'
'vicious,' and 'scumbag.' He frequently used the term 'fraud,' according to the Regents,
'regardless of whether he was answering a question posed by the respondent's attorney,
petitioner's attorney, or the hearing committee or whether it was responsive to the question
posed.' As the Regents pointed out, these 'personal attacks on respondent and
characterizations [while] testifying to the ultimate issue in dispute were improper.' That these
proceedings were allowed to continue in this vein should concern anyone who values the basic
tenets of a free society.

I received an amusing letter from Richard Hart, MD, Dean of the School of Public Health that
concluded that armed security police were necessary because I was 'rather disruptive and
forceful in trying to obtain control of the microphone....'

Nothing could be further from the truth. Offering an informed opinion through an open mike
is certainly not disruptive. An open lecture that invites public comments cannot lawfully deny
contrary views under California's constitution. I suspect that Dr. Hart's finding of fact and
opinion would be difficult to sustain under judicial scrutiny. Please inform Dr. Hart that he is
to preserve all documents, recordings, and other materials that he used to come to his
conclusion, and that their loss would be neither appropriate nor helpful.

You might wish to send Dr. Hart the Regents of the University of the State of New York's
assessment of Victor Herbert, Board Member of the NCAHF, to broaden his (Dr. Hart's)
under-standing of the word 'disruptive.'

Item 3 - Persons on the Quack List Data Base

I have also enclosed a list of 2,551 names, with a computer-generated numerical ID, compiled
by Dr. John Renner, board member of the NCAHF, and titled 'Persons on the Quack List
Data Base.' There is evidence that the NCAHF has disseminated this list, or perhaps even sold
it to medical insurance companies for the purpose of interfering with the payments for
medical services provided by those on the list. There is good evidence that it is sent to state
medical boards and other entities in an effort to harm professionally those on the list. Persons
so listed are never informed that they are listed, nor informed as to who receives this list or
why.

Obviously, considering the number of physicians listed, the only criteria for being added to
this defamatory list would be the 'opinions' of those within the NCAHF. Please note that the
list includes 1,137 MDs, 167 PhDs, 236 DOs, 79 DDSS, 228 DCs, and 441 others (BS, RN, ND,
HMD, CSW, MSN). There are 52 double doctorates on the list, with two or more of the
following degrees, MD, PhD, DO, DDS, DVM, DMD. Many have university affiliation, have
published in the peer-review literature, and are respected authors of books or even textbooks.

Please note that this 'quack' list includes Linus Pauling, PhD.

Linus Pauling is the only individual to have won two unshared Nobel Prizes, and virtually
every other award for scientific achievement, both national and international. In the 1970s the
editors of the British New Scientist listed Dr. Pauling as one of the top 20 scientists of all time.
Albert Einstein was the only other scientist in the 20th century listed along with Aristotle,
Gallileo, Isaac Newton, and Michael Faraday.

In the recently published book, Scientific Genius, The 20 Greatest Minds of All Time, by Jim
Glenn (Crescent Books, 1996). Linus Pauling is again listed along with Archimedes, Gregor
Mendel, William Harvey, Charles Darwin, and Rend Descartes. Linus Pauling's achievements
should be lauded, not besmirched with this outrageously inexcusable label of quack. As
President of Loma Linda University, does it concern you that Dr. Jarvis' NCAHF, a small
group of about four men of no significant distinction in ,the scientific arena, would 'secretly'
list Dr. Pauling as a 'quack,' and would actually send or sell this list to others in the scientific
or health field? Does it concern you that the NCAHF is housed on the Loma Linda campus
and by implication, this clandestine and highly defamatory practice is condoned by the
University?

I will be communicating with each individual on this list, informing them that this list or data
similar to it is maintained and updated by John Renner, MD, board member of NCAHF, and
that the offices of NCAHF are housed-on the campus of Loma Linda University. I will be
instructing each person contacted to address any questions or concerns they may have
concerning their defamatory labeling to you, the President of Loma Linda University. I have
already contacted the Linus Pauling Institute and the Pauling family.

Item 4 - Quacks Condensed List

Benjamin R. Wilson, MD, working with John H. Renner, MD, compiled a list of 1,500 which
he called the 'Condensed Quack List.' After the practitioner's degree, or degrees, Dr. Wilson
lists two indices called the NI and DDL. NI stands for 'Notoriety Index' which is a function of
the number of 'quack' organizations or academic groups the individual has joined. Thus
'guilt by association' is elevated to new heights in that it is now numerically quantified and
recorded. The DDI is the Ding Dong Index' - a score reflecting the most nonsensical or
dangerous dubious procedures and/or illnesses they treat.

Please note that one way to get on the quack list is to simply join or donate to any group or
organization that the NCAHF deems to be quack. Of course, the legality and charter of the
group is irrelevant to the NCAHF. The fact that the group may be for professionals only and
puts on regular scientific sessions that are approved for CME educational credit for MDs and
DOs is irrelevant to those marching with the NCAHF.

Incredibly, Dr. Wilson will put you on the 'quack list' if you are listed as a donor to the
National Health Federation, a chartered and legal organization. This qualifies 'the quack' for
the highest Notoriety Index: a 10. Whereas the donor list of the NHF is public, the 'quack list'
with its additional indices is clandestine, and is meant to cause harm.

Your letter stated that you were going to investigate this matter. I believe that it is
inappropriate to look upon the action of Dr. Jarvis as an isolated incident. I believe that the
action of Dr. Jarvis is typical of the NCAHF. I trust that this material will enhance your
understanding of the NCAHF and their potential liability for the University.

I am requesting two things from Loma Linda University.

First, an Opportunity for Counterspeech.

Under California constitutional law, a private establishment that opens a forum to the public
may not engage in viewpoint discrimination. Loma Linda (through the agency of Dr. Jarvis)
violated the rights of those who wished to express a viewpoint contrary to Dr. Jarvis when Dr.
Jarvis refused to permit such views during the question-and answer segment of the lecture. I
respectfully request that the University correct this injustice by holding another forum to
permit each of those ejected from the lecture hall to express their contrary viewpoints.

The forum should be held at the same time, for the same length as the original one, and at the
same location (a larger room will likely be necessary). It should again be open to the public,
and it should be promoted and advertised in the same manner as the first, inviting members of
the public to attend and hear a rebuttal.

Secondly, A letter of clarification. I respectfully request a letter from you, - President of Loma
Linda University, clarifying the status of the NCAHF at the University. Please be specific in
answering the following questions. Does the University authorize the. use of its property,
stationery, name and reputation by the NCAHF and by Dr. Jarvis in connection with and in
support of the NCAHF's activities? Does the University condone Dr. Jarvis' use of his
University office to house files and property to traffic in lists of 'quacks' substantiated by no
objective evidence other than the .opinions' of those aligned with NCAHF?

Does the University agree that it was appropriate to give Linus Pauling, PhD, this pejorative
label, and that such files defaming Dr. Pauling and others could possibly be kept by Dr. Jarvis
at the University, or flow through his hands, in his University office? Does the University
condone Dr. Jarvis' reliance on the University reputation to promote the NCAHF, an
organization that is essentially run by four irrational zealots whose obvious agenda is to
cleanse the medical profession of 'undesirables' and to purge society of all other healing arts?

Please respond to these queries at your earliest convenience. Please be assured that I hold the
University responsible for the actions of NCAHF both past and present.

Julian M. Whitaker, MD
The Whitaker Wellness Institute
4321 Birch, Suite 100
Newport Beach, California 92660 USA
714-851-1550
Fax 714-955-3005

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Date: Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 23:17:00 (GMT)
From: Runamok
Email: None
To: Charlie
Subject: Here's some excellent links
Message:
Were you ripped off by premie chiropractors? The site you list is mostly an anti-chiropractic site. Chiropractic is a licensed practice and competitor to allopathy (regular MD style practice) in many instances.

Ralph Nader has statistics that are shocking about allopathic care, including incredibly high death and serious injury rate caused by hospital care. (That's right, caused by.)

I would have thought you were talking about premie counsellors, social workers or something but just guessing.

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Date: Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 09:53:05 (GMT)
From: carol
Email: rbruce@teleport.com
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: What time is it there?
Message:
Hi, I have to go to bed, it is 1:48 in the am! Are you in France?
Later....Godnight, carol
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Date: Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 10:12:01 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: carol
Subject: Time for tea !
Message:
It's 11:10 am, and I'm having my tea (with milk).

Good night ... and sweet darshan dreams!

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Date: Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 16:42:00 (GMT)
From: Carol
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Time for tea !
Message:
I love my tea with milk and with my Scotch too, before I had to give it up because it made my face all red and stingy! Never drank heavily, but Scotch was my favorite to have 2 or 3 of when I was celebrating life with friends and musicians.

I'll take any sweet dreams, thankyou! Carol

I slept at about 2:30 am and the suddenly woke at about 7:15 ready to jump out of bed and into my husband's! An unusual occurence, for me, (given my anti-depressant with its anti-libido effect)! I also had a song in my head, that I don't remember much of besides the name and tune.

Does anyone know how to get access to lyrics on the web? I am going to try a search! It's from the USA, I think, and the song is called 'Just walk away Renee': a golden oldie. I am curious what meaning I can attribute to it being in my head!!!
Cheers, carol

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Date: Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 18:38:58 (GMT)
From: Christopher
Email: None
To: Carol
Subject: Sign that points one way?
Message:
Loved the Rickie Lee Jones cover, but can't remember who wrote it. Great song though (whatever the lyrics might have meant to the songwriter).

Walk Away Renee

And when I see the sign that points one way
The lot we used to pass by every day

Just walk away Renee
You won't see me follow you back home
The empty sidewalks on my block are not the same
You're not to blame

From deep inside the tears I'm forced to cry
From deep inside the pain I chose to hide

Just walk away Renee
You won't see me follow you back home
Now as the rain beats down upon my weary eyes
For me it cries

Your name and mine
Inside a heart upon a wall
Still finds a way to haunt me
Though they're so small

Just walk away Renee
You won't see me follow you back home
Now as the rain beats down upon my weary eyes
For me it cries
Just walk away Renee
You won't see me follow you back home
he empty sidewalks on my block are not the same
You're not to blame

Copyright ...???

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Date: Mon, Jan 24, 2000 at 08:52:18 (GMT)
From: carol
Email: None
To: Christopher
Subject: (Just read)Excellent!Thankyou!
Message:
It fits, to have it pop into my mind when I awoke! I'm walking pasr all the signs that say 'One Way'!!!!The song makes me happy and makes me feel my freedom!
Love and Bye
I've other fish to fry
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Date: Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 23:26:07 (GMT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: Christopher
Subject: Sign that points one way?
Message:
Dear Christopher,
Thanks, just had a little sing along with that! :)
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 09:48:04 (GMT)
From: Christopher
Email: None
To: Robyn
Subject: :) :) :) (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 20:45:29 (GMT)
From: Powerman
Email: None
To: Christopher
Subject: Sign that points one way?
Message:
Walk Away Renee was written by B. Calilli, Tony Sansome and Michael Brown who were members of The Left Banke, the group who originally recorded the song.
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Date: Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 04:49:29 (GMT)
From: billiam
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Yes des, I hear ya load
Message:
I have read you postings and am considering everything.

Biiliam...

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Date: Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 18:31:29 (GMT)
From: bb
Email: None
To: billiam
Subject: Yes des, I hear ya load
Message:
this is threadworthy?
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Date: Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 01:21:59 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: fitzroy@liverpool.ac.uk
To: Everyone
Subject: Quick hi to all! (ot)
Message:
Hi gang,

Not getting much time to look in at the moment and - to tell you the truth - 'this precious life' (to coin a phrase) is so much more rewarding without even thinkin about 'this knowledge', 'this opportunity', 'this bullshit' etc., that even crapping on the slimeball crapmeister feels like crediting him with more right to my time than he ever deserved.

But I just wanted to say this to all you lovely exes I have promised emails to - about a dozen at the last count...

Mike - sorry to be a pain, but could you send your email address to the fitzroy account (above). I have two email address books in separate physical addresses and for a while will only have access to the wrong one.

Everyone else (and I mean everyone who has emailed me in the last six months or last century, expected a reply and never got one): bear with me. I am somewhat overloaded, workwise, and not getting the quality headspace to do the kind of replies you deserve. Catch you soon.

Anyone else: if you want to email me, could you please send 'em to 'fitzroy@liverpool.ac.uk' rather than 'nigel@redcrow.demon.co.uk', for the time being, please.

Love to all,
Nige

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Date: Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 18:33:51 (GMT)
From: xyz
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: Quick hi to all! (ot)
Message:
You could just post what is up with you lately and
by the way, what do you think about immoralizing the
Larkin works on ex premie org
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Date: Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 01:32:00 (GMT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: xyz
Subject: Quick hi to all! (ot)
Message:
Dear xyz,
I was going to give you the web site for Larkin's stuff but maybe it is no more as it wouldn't come up.
Robyn
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Date: Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 01:51:48 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: fitzroy@liverpool.ac.uk
To: Robyn
Subject: Quick hi to all! (ot)
Message:
Hi Sweetie,

I am currently putting my website together, and will include a complete Larkin archive. To be unveiled Feb 14th (just a date plucked out of the air - but one I will stick to).

xyz: nothing is actually up with me - my fettle is fine and spirits good (vodka and orange). Just got a lot on workwise. I'll be around soon.

Best,
Nigel

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Date: Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 02:18:16 (GMT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: Quick hi to all! (ot)
Message:
Dear Nig,
Will it be the same URL, or give us the new one after the 14th! I haven't been able to stand orange juice(acid)with vodka since I was 18 although right before the end of my drinking days I was drinking vodka and water.
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 18:43:47 (GMT)
From: Christopher
Email: None
To: xyz
Subject: 'Immoralizing'??? (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Tues, Jan 18, 2000 at 23:41:58 (GMT)
From: JW
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Question: Roger?
Message:
When Maharaji's website first reared it's cold, hyper-legalistic, misleading head, someone, I think Roger if I'm not mistaken, mentioned a way to email M directly without having to go into that site and 'agree' to his outrageous legal mumbo jumbo and also accept cookies. Does anyone recall that, and can you post that information again? Thanks.
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Date: Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 00:43:55 (GMT)
From: Powerman
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: Question: Roger?
Message:
If I remember correctly, the email address that pops up on one's browser at his web site is maharaji@maharaji.org
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Date: Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 21:02:04 (GMT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Powerman
Subject: Question: Roger?
Message:
PM: It really should be: HeWontListenToYouSoWhyBother@mahahahahaha.org :-)
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Date: Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 01:19:04 (GMT)
From: Internet White Pages
Email: None
To: Mike
Subject: Definitive Answers
Message:
Actually, anything sent to maharaji.org would work.

Try:

Lord.Of.The.Universe@maharaji.org

Hamster@maharaji.org

Living.Lard.And.Jello.Butt@maharaji.org

Pedophile.Protectorate@maharaji.org

Send.Me.Your.Money@maharaji.org

Successful.Private.Investor@maharaji.org

Successful.Brilliant.Inventor@maharaji.org

Wristwatch.Collector@maharaji.org

Nose.Picking.Ass.Scratcher@maharaji.org

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Date: Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 15:28:58 (GMT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Internet White Pages
Subject: BWAH HA HA HA!
Message:
IYP: WHO are you????? That was pretty funny stuff :-)
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Date: Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 20:00:04 (GMT)
From: Internet White Pages
Email: None
To: Mike
Subject: Hint
Message:
My grammar in computer languages is better than my English. Although some may argue that point.
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Date: Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 23:13:49 (GMT)
From: Powerman
Email: None
To: Mike
Subject: So True, Mike nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Tues, Jan 18, 2000 at 20:03:26 (GMT)
From: Worried brown eyes
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Des Perado posted this:
Message:
last Sunday over on Anything Goes:

'I am considering sueing (sic) Maharaji, Elan Vital and Dr. Chris for the 'experience' I have endured since being shown the techniques (given 'Knowledge') in 1982.

Any monies gained by myself in this endeavour will be donated to Care Australia.

It could be a class action.

Should any other ex-dreamers which to discuss this further please post message in Forum5 and we will get back to you.

Luv yus all,

Des 'grooving with FM 91.5 Perado'
................................. ...............................
................................. ...............................
................................. ...............................

Now look, Desy wesy, just who is this Dr. Chris ???

Just 'cos my name is Christopher doesn't mean that I don't have to get paranoid now and then, you know.

(And, AND ... I first posted here as Doctor Octopus. Did you know that?)

So WHO IS DR. CHRIS ?????

Puleeeeezzzzz?????

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Date: Tues, Jan 18, 2000 at 20:21:01 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: A better question is...
Subject: Des Perado posted this:
Message:
Who is 'Des Perado?'

It's non other than our ole pal Rob!

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Date: Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 09:57:12 (GMT)
From: carol
Email: carol the critic
To: gerry
Subject: Gerry,Gerry,you always guess!
Message:
No, it is not Rob! I have this person's name and e-mail. The person is from a distant foreign country, not Europe.

How are ye anyway?!? Carol who's gotta go to bed to sleep!

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Date: Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 15:56:11 (GMT)
From: Gerry
Email: None
To: carol
Subject: Gerry,Gerry,you always guess!
Message:

Gerry responded:
Hi Carol. I'm fine. Have you ever heard of proxy servers?
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Date: Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 16:47:28 (GMT)
From: carol the not so cautious
Email: None
To: Gerry
Subject: No but I get the meaning!
Message:
I am usually a bit over trusting in my relationships, even e-mail ones. So, I guess you might be right! I wish people would drop the fearful anonimity, except for our playful alters! How do I access spellcheck here?

Also, do you know how to make webpages?
carol

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Date: Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 17:28:01 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: glyng@techline.com
To: carol the not so cautious
Subject: No but I get the meaning!
Message:

gerry responded:
Hi,

I have a few 'playful alters' myself!

I don't believe there is a way to spellcheck right here on the forum. You can, of course, write your post using a word processing program, spellcheck it, and cut and paste it to the forum.

I know enough about web page authoring to put up a simple page.

Hey Carol, did you know you sent me two e-mails with attachments which were empty? I think one was a birthday announcement...

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Date: Sat, Jan 22, 2000 at 02:09:37 (GMT)
From: carol
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: No but I get the meaning!
Message:
I don't know how to send an attachment, so I may have done it screwing it up! Sorry.
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Date: Tues, Jan 18, 2000 at 20:43:13 (GMT)
From: Less worried brown eyes?
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Des Perado posted this:
Message:

Less worried brown eyes? responded:
Who Rob?

Gerry, DUAF (do us a favour/favor) - sum Rob up in a sentence or three?

Pretty please?

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Date: Tues, Jan 18, 2000 at 20:51:20 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: drek@oz.net
To: Less worried brown eyes?
Subject: Yeah, tell Rob who Rob is
Message:
Hey there, Brown Eyes.

Don't know who you are, but chameleons who cannot keep to one or two posting identities like me are gonna be suspected of being Rob Cerby Zelig.

Until you gel a little bit more on us you're going to be Rob Cerby Zelig, too.

Perhaps, the Recent Exes Forum would be a good place to find yourself as it is a kinder and gentler place.

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Date: Tues, Jan 18, 2000 at 23:46:00 (GMT)
From: Marge
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: He's the Talented Mr. Ripley
Message:
And hopefully he hasn't dug himself in too deep, because I will find him and expose him if it's the last thing I do.
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Date: Sun, Jan 23, 2000 at 20:00:47 (GMT)
From: Dickie
Email: None
To: Marge
Subject: He's the Talented Mr. Ripley
Message:
No one cared when I died. They were rooting for ole Tom to get away with it. I did not deserve to be blugeoned to death. He was a bore and a leech..so I spoke the truth. Did I deserve to die?

But thanks Marge, for seeing the best in me. At least you saw through him.

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Date: Tues, Jan 18, 2000 at 21:22:04 (GMT)
From: Christopher
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: One or TWO posting IDs ???
Message:

Christopher responded:
From the start of this thread:
'Just 'cos my name is Christopher doesn't mean that I don't have to get paranoid now and then, you know.
(And, AND ... I first posted here as Doctor Octopus. Did you know that?)'

Drek, man, like, you up too late? Or is it early where UR?

Like, it's me, currently posting as .... wait for it ...
Christopher

.... and still worried. (you think that I'm Rob???)

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Date: Tues, Jan 18, 2000 at 21:30:11 (GMT)
From: Sgt. Roger Schultz eDrek
Email: drek@oz.net
To: Christopher
Subject: I know nothing. NOTHING!
Message:
I don't know what's going on around here. I'm just another ripe coconut that's about to fall from the tree and get sucked into the ocean and float away to parts unknown.
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Date: Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 05:26:36 (GMT)
From: me
Email: None
To: Sgt. Roger Schultz eDrek
Subject: I know nothing. NOTHING!
Message:
r u okay?
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Date: Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 10:20:18 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek™
Email: drek@oz.net
To: me
Subject: Des-o Row
Message:
Yes, I received your letter yesterday
(About the time the door knob broke)
When you asked how I was doing
Was that some kind of joke?

All these people that you mention
Yes, I know them, they're quite lame
I had to rearrange their faces
And give them all another name
Right now I can't read too good
Don't send me no more letters no
Not unless you mail them
From Desolation Row
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Date: Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 18:11:04 (GMT)
From: Christopher
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek™
Subject: Des-o Row
Message:
Perhaps my little attack of paranoia was unjustified.

Have just found this from Des Perado in a very shouty post over on Anything Goes:

'IT IS PAST MY BEDTIME WHICH, LATELY, CHRIS HAY (NORTH SYDNEY HEALTH-PSYCHOLOGIST WITH COMMUNITY REHABILITATION TEAM-SORRY NO EMAIL ADDRESS)SAYS I SHOULD AIM FOR THE CRACK OF MIDNIGHT'

Sweet dreams, and best wishes for our recovery, Des.

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Date: Tues, Jan 18, 2000 at 18:12:57 (GMT)
From: UFO
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: rare gem found
Message:
Howdy Buckaroos

Just popped into the forum to cruise around. The quote below is found this in the post below from Carol. It seems to summarize the premie habit of preaching with mirrors-that I find so hard to nail down.

I cant really stay on this machine,
Blessings to all the ex premies.

'''If you have done or said something that you intend to be a lesson example to others, you will be happy with yourself.'''

is that not priceless?

Take care
Mork

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Date: Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 21:29:50 (GMT)
From: oldie
Email: None
To: all
Subject: Carols pro M post
Message:
Well the forum has changed alot and I am out of the flow
of things. I posted this the other day - and noone took notice. Maybe cause of the header but mabye forum caution about low flyers.
So I am putting it on again.
Apologies for the scrambled format.

Howdy Buckaroos

Just popped into the forum to cruise around. I found this Quote in the post below from Carol. It seems to summarize the premie habit of preaching with mirrors-that I find so hard to nail down.

'''If you have done or said something that you intend to be a lesson example to others, you will be happy with yourself.'''

is that not priceless?

Take care
Mork

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Date: Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 18:17:03 (GMT)
From: Christopher
Email: None
To: oldie
Subject: Carols pro M post
Message:

Christopher responded:
Mork,

At the risk of raising some unwelcome memories, didn't Hitler intend Poland to be a 'lesson to others'?

I guess he was happy with himself too :(

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Date: Tues, Jan 18, 2000 at 19:38:34 (GMT)
From: UFO rave
Email: None
To: all exs and non exes
Subject: I shouldda said..
Message:
The below is meant as a general rave and is definitely to be critisised.

The forum knows all this-but I finally 'Got It'

If you were to take a post such as the one from Carol down lower-(Carol, this is not personal, I am just using your post as an example).

Ignore WHAT it says and squint your eyes and just 'listen' to the tone and the source within the writer of each paragraph, you find a very mutated inner life.

{This method of listening to premie-speak or Mabaraga is a kind like Personal Fibre-Optic Polygraph that detects intent. (This great idea is downloaded and reworked from the movie Face Off).
Patent Pending*{

It occurs to me that taking issue with What the premies say is only effective to a point. The problem is WHY they say it.

The need in them to say it is a parasitic drive. If they dont keep emmitting the drivel, they panic because they find that they have eaten themselvs up and they need to vicariously live off of new energy (in the form of other peoples attention) in order to survive.

The fact that it is sugar-coated in the language of the Light and Darkness is clever marketing of a addictive brainwash.

and

The fact that they say it at all is a major invasion of my privacy. It is a violation of my right to not be subject to the pollution of their emmissions.

Its like when your friend becomes an Amway Lady- friendship and human relations fizzle because Amway can indoctrinate one to the fundamental persuasion that More is Good and not pursuing the More the Amway Way is bad and it is the Amways Ladys mission to save you.
They even go so far as to insinuate this by asking stupid lead questions like 'Could you use more money?' or 'Are you perfectly happy with your quality of life?' If you answer honestly to either one of these - theyve got a foothold as far as they are concerned. Next thing you know you are categorized as a prospect and will probably be a victim of their Market Training.
From that point on, it is not anything they say in particular that is so very wrong, but it is the motivation behind it all. and where they are trying to maneuver you.

I guess if feel that peoples relationship with god or whatever is their own business- but this perpetual need for self verification and gratification and is parasitic.

Phew
I am done now

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Date: Tues, Jan 18, 2000 at 16:46:18 (GMT)
From: Me
Email: None
To: Carol
Subject: CAROL: Kissing Maharaji's feet
Message:
I am waiting for your answer. Just that please. A short explanation. What about that we kissed his feet and if you didn't you were not a real devotee? What about it? Mahaha did it again recently in Amaroo. What about that?
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Date: Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 09:30:37 (GMT)
From: carol
Email: None
To: Me
Subject: Waiting for answer?+Yesterday!
Message:
Was there a question you posed to me that I missed? please e-mail me at rbruce@teleport.com
I don't have ( or want to spend all the) time to read everything here!

I loved kissing his feet because I thought they were God's feet. In a way they were, because I think God hears and answers to whatever name we sincerely attribute to God. God hears and knows everything in your heart. Someone acting the part doesn't change the truth that God is in you and in everyone. So what I see in Maharaji is a reflection of the love in me. It no longer matters to me 'Who is Guru Maharaji'. It is only the opening of my own heart to everyone that concerns me now.

Yesterday after lunch with St. Michael the demented and another dear crazy friend from the old Portland premie community, we walked all over the neighborhood where we ate and where years ago we had an ashram, a Divine Sales store and about 5 big premie houses! A rather dirty but dapper guy came up to us and asked us to donate to the 'Fucked up David fund for the homeless' (is that right michael?) He said something like, I'm a photographer and an artist but things haven't been going well, and something like 'the way the world is today I just don't know if I can find anything that means anything!' I said you can find the meaning inside you, and I asked if I could give him a hug, and I gave him one. Then michael gave him some change and I got out a John Kennedy dollar coin and gave it to him, telling him, 'That's my lucky coin, now go find your luck!' and we departed company. The same spirit that looks out of my eyes looks out of his, but the lenses have different degrees of clarity. Are his a bit dirty, like his clothes? Or are his more clear (when he's not drunk) because of his experiences? Then my female friend shared a true kootie (lice) story when she was helping the mentally ill at a clinic, and I had her check me for any strays that may have abondoned ship when I hugged the man! Oh well!

Later, we walked back Lovejoy Street, and the guy was sitting slouched asleep in the sun in the an indentation in the brick wall right where the old doorway used to be in the building that used to house the Premie Office in the 70's! He had a cigarette clutched between his stained fingers, burning all the way down to the butt close enough to burn him. I carefully removed it from his fingers without waking him and caught up with my friends.
There but for fortune go you or I! Life is so amazing and I am a very fortunate person! It takes more than passively accepting one's position in life to change it or get out of pain and on with life!
Love, Carol

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Date: Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 06:33:36 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek™
Email: drek@oz.net
To: carol
Subject: God is a concept...
Message:
Carol,

I guess that I just don't care what people think about me here anymore, but I've just got to say that I absolutely cannot read the stuff you write. What you say is more than not is a complete insult to my experience and my intelligence. And I know that I'm falling into the category of being a mean an ornery son of a bitch talking like this, but I still think that an Internet forum or chatroom is for having discussions that may not have any union or intersection in set theory nomenclature. Basically, what you typically say is way over there on the other side of the universe from what I would say. No union, no intersection, just two distinct sets.

And I know that I should not attempt to ever speak for everyone here, but I am not too sure of what kind of reception you will get with your, well, let's just call it for what it sounds to like me, satsang or new age philosophy. And no doubt that I will get the blame for chasing you out of here if you decide to pack it up and leave.

For starters the Kennedy half dollar is worth only 50 cents.

And now let's move into the more difficult topic of God.

I loved kissing his feet because I thought they were God's feet. In a way they were, because I think God hears and answers to whatever name we sincerely attribute to God. God hears and knows everything in your heart. Someone acting the part doesn't change the truth that God is in you and in everyone. So what I see in Maharaji is a reflection of the love in me. It no longer matters to me 'Who is Guru Maharaji'. It is only the opening of my own heart to everyone that concerns me now.

Carol, that's the most ridiculous thing I've ever read here without any doubt! Me, I kissed Maharaji's feet because I did think that he was God. He facilitated and grew that belief inside of me.

Someone acting the part doesn't change the truth that God is in you and in everyone.

Acting the part? Acting the part of God! You don't seem to have a problem with that, do you? That is patently absurd! I'm terribly sorry, Carol, but this is going to be my last conversation with you. There's absolutely no common ground, nowhere that we can go with this.

And then you add the irrefutable and nebulous doesn't change the truth that God is in you and in everyone. Carol, this is scary stuff. This is as close as you can get to being completely whacked out as it comes. Your statement alone really says something about your ability to discern between what is basically right and wrong at the most simple level. Carol, you are seriously deluded. I cannot even bring myself to believe that an adult would ever consider saying such a thing. It's simply ludicrous. Beyond belief, beyond imagination.

Let's bring up some absurd examples where those feet belonged to the infamous Hitler, Jim Jones, David Koresh, Herve Applewhite and a long string of other completely ridiculous characters who have demanded that people pay homage.

What's sick is sick and what is wrong is wrong whether it's Maharaji fooling people into believing that he was god to Jim Jones telling his followers to drink the koolaid and even further to Hilter ordering the extermination of millions to accommodate his chosen people with his master plan. It's all part of the slippery slope, I'm afraid.

Covering wrongful acts of misrepresentation and even evil or greed with a new age shiny gloss is an act of an accomplice, in my opinion. Basically, Carol, you are refusing to deal the issues most of us are interested in discussing here and are using this as an opportunity to impart to us your whacky new age philosophy. And to be frank and honest, I resent it and think that it stinks. One of the reasons I'm here at the forum, and, no, that is not to flame people, but I like to get my thinking straight on what I went through during my lost years in the cult with the help of other honest people who were there who would maybe appear to be thinking a little more clearly.

Carol, perhaps your new age philosophy might ring good and true with many others around here, but to me it sounds like the same old stupid thing with some fancy new packaging and I'm not going to be one of your buyers. That's just the way it is, I'm afraid. It's not like there is a shortage of people trying to develop their own subcult with their own brand of warm and fuzzy. It's practically available on every street corner in this land. Is there no end of the supply or the demand? On our escape from one way of cult thinking do we need a replacement that soon? Or maybe we can just try to see what we feel, what we believe, what's inside of us for a change. You know, without someone being right there trying to force feed the next concoction down our throats. Ick! I'm ok, you're ok, but I don't need this shit.

In fact, I'm wondering if I'm really selling anything here other than Maharaji is a fraud. Please, anyone? Have I been selling any philosophy around here other than being able to freely talk about this stuff? Oh, sure I've been accused of trying to keep the premies and ex-premies talking at Anything Goes, but my major concern was exactly who the hell did they think they were talking to anyway. They were talking to a mysterious lying disruptive character named Robert Cerby who was carrying on his private mission to protect Maharaji from us. And, Carol, I'm not sure that you don't have some private mission here either because I don't know what to make out of you. But, I will say that what I see I don't like. Maybe not my cup of tea or not, who's to say?

I can't even continue this without going way over the top. Seriously, I really believe that if what you've been saying represents new age magical thinking then there is no better example of just how dangerous such thinking is. This magical thinking is empty pathetic platitudes with a warm and fuzzy I'm ok, you're ok and God is everywhere and everything and all we have to do is find that God within us and we will be happy. Carol, it's the exact same stuff that Maharaji spouts and that's why we are here because we came to the realization through a real experience that it wasn't working, that it wasn't real. We were like dogs chasing our tails because we were told that that was where the answer was.

Unbelievable!

I was going to say something about setting up a soapbox in front of Powells or the Golden Age Used Book Store on Lombard St. or the Looking Glass Book Store on Taylor, but this stuff belongs in front of Fantasy For Adults Only on Sandy Blvd.

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Date: Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 16:43:50 (GMT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: carol
Subject: Sweet Carol
Message:
Carol, I've read your posts about 'forgiveness.' You have forgiven M from 'afar,' just as you 'loved' him. There's just one problem, though: He never said he was sorry, nor did he ask for your forgiveness. In fact, he continues to do the very things that you forgave him. What is called for here is not forgiveness, but tough-love! He was and is a sheister of the lowest order. He feeds off of your fear of death and your fear that if you don't do as you are told, that you will be damned for all eternity (or, at least, another lifetime)! These are normal fears for westerners, I think.

I think that most of us need to 'forgive' OURSELVES for falling for his line. THIS is what needs to occur, now. Yup, in our collective search for truth and beauty, we were duped...... Well, at least we can say that we tried (waste of time or not)! We all deserve our own forgiveness..... We've apologized to ourselves.... We've said we are sorry to ourselves..... We're trying to avoid the same mistakes again..... You get the picture. Additionally, we have (at least a few of us) forgiven each other for strengthening the 'lie' to each other and for things like making the 'house mom' job such a drudgery for you (for example). The reason we could forgive is because there was a 'sorry' in there somewhere. M has NEVER said, 'sorry.' Until he does, I can't forgive an action that continues to this very day. He lied, Carol.... he said he was the lord of the universe! He allowed others to spread that lie without the simplest attempt to stop it! Given who we 'thought' he was, that would have been easy for him to do! We would have followed his direction to the letter, right?

No, Carol, until he acknowledges his lies, I can't forgive him. I can feel sorry for him, I can 'understand' his early delusions of grandeur, I can do all kinds of things..... But forgive him? Not until he asks for it and ceases his incessant lies!

You know, it would have been better if he had just said, 'hey, I've got some great meditation techniques for you. I'll show them to you if you pay me a couple-o-bucks!' THAT would be a TRUE take-it-or-leave-it situation.... not the 'you'll rot like a ton of vegetables' if you don't practice 'schtick!' Do you see what I mean, Carol? I think your love and forgiveness are wasted on this guy. He's not and never was a 'reflection' of god!

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Date: Tues, Jan 18, 2000 at 17:27:38 (GMT)
From: Mu
Email: None
To: Me
Subject: CAROL: Kissing Maharaji's feet
Message:
Trick or treat
Smell my feet
Give me something good to eat---send money

Bend real close
Hold your nose
That's the way the blessing goes---send money

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Date: Tues, Jan 18, 2000 at 16:46:09 (GMT)
From: Wanda Rher
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Is there an answer?
Message:
There are so many gurus, and teachers and preacher. There are so many scriptures, and bibles and books. Is there an ultimate truth? Or, do we just take what we need and like and just leave the rest? Help.
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Date: Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 00:34:36 (GMT)
From: Ent Hooghit
Email: None
To: Wanda Rher
Subject: Is there an answer?
Message:
I'll share a great secret with you, may you understand it. There is no enlightenment! There is only awakening. After awakening what is there? Only what there was before, the neverending constantly unfolding experience of phenomena. But, but, but, but you say, no enlightenment? HA HA HA HA I say. And, HO HO HO HO too! It is so funny. No enlightenment. Just the awareness that you are. The old Zen koan of one hand clapping. What was your name before you had a name and all that jazz! The beauty of it all just breaks my heart! The joy of it all sustains me! The love of it all enlightens me!

I live because I am alive, in that there is peace. I do not fear life, nor do I crave life. I simply am. I am meat, emotions, intellect, perception. There are no causes, no religions, no other to strive for or against.

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Date: Tues, Jan 18, 2000 at 19:49:26 (GMT)
From: Christopher
Email: None
To: Wanda Rher
Subject: Is there an answer?
Message:

Christopher responded:
O Wanda Rher,

prepare thyself now for the sharp sword of blinding revelation and enlightenment:

Has it not occured to you that all the scriptures, bibles and books that are sold by gurus, teachers and preachers serve one purpose and one purpose only? Namely to keep themselves in business. Truly, yea forsooth, for it is the oldest profession.

And who was it that told you you had to look for an ultimate truth, hmmmmmm ...?

Hear ye the words of Principal Skinner:

'god has no place in school just as truth has no place in religion.'

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Date: Tues, Jan 18, 2000 at 23:16:59 (GMT)
From: Wanda Rher
Email: None
To: Christopher
Subject: Is there an answer?
Message:
What kind of answer is that? Sounds likes some sorta goof job. Does anyone know?
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Date: Tues, Jan 18, 2000 at 18:19:15 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Wanda Rher
Subject: What are the options?
Message:
Gooorooos, Scriptures, leaders, preachers, beliefs, superior beings, etc

or

YOUR truth, YOUR values, what you like and don't like, exercise YOUR OWN judgement and discrimination, your culture, nothing 'ultimate', your intelligence, your wisdom, your friends and your relatives, etc

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Date: Tues, Jan 18, 2000 at 19:46:14 (GMT)
From: Wanda Rher
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: What are the options?
Message:
Who me? Why me? Who you?
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Date: Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 17:33:42 (GMT)
From: Shifting
Email: None
To: Wanda Rher
Subject: What are the options?
Message:
If you are a confused premie is okay to get therapy like Jean-Michel suggeted. Maharaji these days says is okay. Many other instructors have said it too. I heard them.
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Date: Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 08:12:20 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Wanda Rher
Subject: Well, then you have NO options
Message:
but to go see a therapist IMO.
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Date: Tues, Jan 18, 2000 at 15:35:30 (GMT)
From: Ben Lurking
Email: None
To: Forum Admin
Subject: Is the Forum Hiccupping?
Message:
I have been unable to see message I post appear - I am not getting a password promt and the appear to post but are not on the board.
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Date: Tues, Jan 18, 2000 at 15:37:20 (GMT)
From: Ben Lurking
Email: None
To: Ben Lurking
Subject: Is the Forum Hiccupping?
Message:
Yes - I refresh but it appears there wer eno messages for about 8-10 hours yesterday including the one I posted that never appeared.
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Date: Tues, Jan 18, 2000 at 08:06:29 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Am I being Blocked?
Message:
Well, as you might see I kept trying and kept trying to get my entire post posted which I titled something like
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Date: Tues, Jan 18, 2000 at 20:00:11 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: Testing - Please Ignore
Message:
0123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789
100 456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789
200 456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789
300 456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789
400 456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789
500 456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789
600 456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789
700 456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789
800 456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789
900 456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789
1000 56789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789
1100 56789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789
1200 56789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789
1300 56789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789
1400 56789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789
1500 56789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789
1600 56789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789
1700 56789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789
1800 56789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789
1900 56789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789
2000 56789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789
2100 56789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789
2200 56789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789
2300 56789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789
2400 56789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789
2500 56789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789
2600 56789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789
2700 56789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789
2800 56789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789
2900 56789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789
3000 56789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789
3100 56789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789
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Date: Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 02:36:01 (GMT)
From: Ben Lurking
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: Testing - Please Ignore
Message:
I believe that is incorrect
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Date: Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 10:24:14 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek™
Email: drek@oz.net
To: Ben Lurking
Subject: What do you mean!
Message:
I can too count! I know I counted to 3100 correctly one character at a time I typed that, I'll have you know.

Are you suggesting I goofed up? That I'm wrong.

If you are insinuating that I'm wrong you'd better just come out and say it, buster. And I mean really say it. Say it with dead flowers and say it with a fuck you!

Only then will I believe you. Until then I know that I can count to 10.

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Date: Tues, Jan 18, 2000 at 20:03:24 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: All Systems Normal
Message:
Ok! Must have been a technical glitch.
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Date: Tues, Jan 18, 2000 at 13:03:21 (GMT)
From: Doktor Dick
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: Am I being Blocked?
Message:
Yes it can be difficult pulling entire posts out of your ass - but there's a solution send a rat up tbere with a piece of string tied to its tail. Wait for 1 minute then pull slowly, and you will be pleasantly relieved.
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Date: Tues, Jan 18, 2000 at 09:59:28 (GMT)
From: Another Guy
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: Am I being Blocked?
Message:
I see two answers to this timeless and interestingly phrased question.

No. Your being is blocked.

Or yes. As in land-locked. Being-blocked.

Good luck either way. You sound like a nice guy.

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Date: Mon, Jan 17, 2000 at 16:10:07 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: The Kirpal Statistic...
Message:
Here's one of the first thing I read about 3 years ago on David Lane's website, that got me thinking ....... before I finally left Rawat and EV. Now on my website.

The Kirpal Statistic Using Inner Visions to Your Social Advantage.

It turns out that almost everybody has the inherent ability to see inner light and hear inner sound. Moreover, almost everybody has the capacity to have an out-of-body experience and behold wondrous inner visions. You don't need to go to an Indian guru to have such experiences indeed, you don't need to go anywhere at all......

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Date: Mon, Jan 17, 2000 at 17:20:42 (GMT)
From: Runamok
Email: None
To: This stuff is great, JM
Subject: this is great stuff, JM
Message:
I saw this (I guess on your site JM) when I first found the ex-premie sites. The forum didn't do that much for me but this one article had a lot of impact. I had left M 15 years earlier, convinced that he wasn't a good person. The one lingering question I had was how did he (and others) facilitate the knowledge initiation.

David Lane demonstrates through science that suggestion is the facilitating force. Check it out!

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