Forum V: Archive
Compiled: Fri, Jan 28, 2000 at 21:40:48 (GMT)
From: Jan 11, 2000 To: Jan 27, 2000 Page: 2 Of: 5


michael -:- the journal of CQG -:- Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 23:41:44 (GMT)
__ CQG -:- awww...shucks,gone all coy(nt) -:- Sat, Jan 22, 2000 at 14:14:36 (GMT)

Roger eDrek™ -:- Skepticism is a virtue -:- Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 22:22:03 (GMT)
__ CQG -:- The more he became truly wise: -:- Sat, Jan 22, 2000 at 15:09:49 (GMT)
__ I'm skeptical of -:- that statement Mr. Kerde -:- Sat, Jan 22, 2000 at 01:27:52 (GMT)
__ __ Roger eDrek™ -:- That's the attitude I wana see -:- Sat, Jan 22, 2000 at 08:11:30 (GMT)
__ mantis -:- I'll see it when I believe it! -:- Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 22:50:31 (GMT)

JHB -:- First Transatlantic Exes Meet -:- Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 14:34:57 (GMT)
__ AJW -:- Royalty -:- Sat, Jan 22, 2000 at 12:37:11 (GMT)
__ __ JHB -:- Royalty -:- Sat, Jan 22, 2000 at 18:09:57 (GMT)
__ __ Robyn -:- Royalty -:- Sat, Jan 22, 2000 at 16:47:34 (GMT)
__ __ __ AJW -:- Live Broadcast -:- Sun, Jan 23, 2000 at 11:04:58 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Robyn -:- Live Broadcast -:- Sun, Jan 23, 2000 at 15:43:46 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ AJW -:- Amazing... -:- Mon, Jan 24, 2000 at 10:45:51 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ CQG -:- Amazing.. how much? (nt) -:- Mon, Jan 24, 2000 at 20:31:57 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Robyn -:- Amazing.. how much? (nt) -:- Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 02:09:10 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ AJW -:- Amazing.. how much? (nt) -:- Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 15:09:37 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Robyn -:- Amazing.. how much? (nt) -:- Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 20:30:06 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ CQG -:- What little pink number? (nt) -:- Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 18:29:08 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ CQG -:- Sometimes(nt)isn't nt!(nt)::)) -:- Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 09:31:08 (GMT)
__ __ __ JHB -:- Royalty -:- Sat, Jan 22, 2000 at 18:07:11 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Robyn -:- Royalty -:- Sat, Jan 22, 2000 at 18:44:38 (GMT)
__ __ Marianne -:- Gatorade -:- Sat, Jan 22, 2000 at 13:31:26 (GMT)
__ __ __ AJW -:- Gatorade -:- Sun, Jan 23, 2000 at 11:07:54 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Robyn -:- Gatorade -:- Sun, Jan 23, 2000 at 15:40:57 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ AJW -:- Electric Lights -:- Mon, Jan 24, 2000 at 17:35:22 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Robyn -:- Electric Lights -:- Mon, Jan 24, 2000 at 18:32:24 (GMT)
__ __ __ Robyn -:- Gatorade -:- Sat, Jan 22, 2000 at 23:41:06 (GMT)
__ Jean-Michel -:- We did agree on wine ! -:- Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 17:06:41 (GMT)
__ __ Roger eDrek™ -:- Before it's too late! BYOB! -:- Sat, Jan 22, 2000 at 09:25:25 (GMT)
__ __ JHB -:- We did agree on wine ! -:- Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 17:20:47 (GMT)
__ __ __ Christopher -:- I'll a(hic)gree, agree on wine -:- Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 18:10:53 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ JHB -:- I'll a(hic)gree, agree on wine -:- Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 19:08:46 (GMT)
__ __ __ Jean-Michel -:- Then we will -:- Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 18:08:38 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ JHB -:- Then we will -:- Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 19:06:00 (GMT)

Christopher -:- simple questions -:- Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 12:25:37 (GMT)
__ AJW -:- 'No Charge'. -:- Sat, Jan 22, 2000 at 13:11:00 (GMT)
__ __ Coach -:- Charity? -:- Sat, Jan 22, 2000 at 18:25:23 (GMT)
__ Evergreen -:- Toys and Lilla -:- Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 14:56:36 (GMT)
__ __ Mike -:- Gimme a BREAK! -:- Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 15:19:08 (GMT)
__ __ __ Evergreen -:- Gimme a BREAK! Ya me too -:- Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 16:13:44 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Mike -:- Because he won't answer -:- Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 18:15:59 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Evergreen -:- Because he won't answer -:- Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 20:11:42 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Coach -:- Yer leaves are wilting -:- Sat, Jan 22, 2000 at 18:34:06 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Evergreen -:- Yers too -:- Sat, Jan 22, 2000 at 20:16:56 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Scott T. -:- Yers too -:- Sun, Jan 23, 2000 at 15:04:30 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Coach -:- Yup, you're green alright. -:- Sat, Jan 22, 2000 at 22:30:55 (GMT)
__ JHB -:- simple questions -:- Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 14:16:55 (GMT)
__ __ Christopher -:- simple questions -:- Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 17:59:39 (GMT)
__ __ __ JHB -:- simple questions -:- Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 19:23:57 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Christopher -:- Al Capone? -:- Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 20:02:50 (GMT)
__ Jean-Michel -:- simple answer -:- Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 14:02:33 (GMT)
__ __ Jean-Michel -:- and proof ! -:- Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 14:04:49 (GMT)
__ __ __ Christopher -:- and proof ! -:- Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 18:42:54 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Jean-Michel -:- Where's that damn link? -:- Sat, Jan 22, 2000 at 08:05:30 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Jean-Michel -:- Here's the LINK -:- Sat, Jan 22, 2000 at 08:46:15 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ CQG -:- I say it's untrue, viz ... -:- Sat, Jan 22, 2000 at 13:34:52 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ G -:- REGISTERED AS A CARITY -:- Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 22:54:56 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ CQG -:- Original said 'Charity' (nt) -:- Wed, Jan 26, 2000 at 18:21:24 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Elan Vital blew it... -:- I say it's untrue, viz ... -:- Sun, Jan 23, 2000 at 03:15:37 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ CQG -:- viz ... -:- Mon, Jan 24, 2000 at 21:20:53 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jean-Michel -:- Truth needs to be available -:- Sat, Jan 22, 2000 at 13:52:42 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ CQG -:- Perhaps in a new thread? (nt) -:- Sat, Jan 22, 2000 at 14:10:39 (GMT)

Roger eDrek™ -:- Maharaji's Gulfstream Jet -:- Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 09:30:46 (GMT)
__ Jean-Michel -:- Here it is -:- Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 11:31:05 (GMT)
__ __ Eddy -:- Miami jet co. run by Rajaji? -:- Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 12:13:46 (GMT)
__ __ __ ij -:- Miami jet co. run by Rajaji? -:- Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 19:27:50 (GMT)

michael -:- history -:- Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 03:39:14 (GMT)
__ Jean-Michel -:- Here's the link ! -:- Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 08:53:49 (GMT)
__ Roger eDrek™ -:- bad link in michael's post -:- Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 06:02:20 (GMT)
__ __ michael -:- thanks -:- Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 18:35:46 (GMT)

JHB -:- Return to the Forum -:- Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 00:24:47 (GMT)
__ AJW -:- Welcome Back -:- Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 10:42:34 (GMT)
__ __ Marianne -:- EV's Dirty Tricks -:- Sat, Jan 22, 2000 at 13:38:38 (GMT)
__ __ CQG -:- the word in the cult -:- Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 21:02:11 (GMT)
__ __ __ Coach -:- The Name of the Gnome -:- Sat, Jan 22, 2000 at 18:56:12 (GMT)
__ __ Robyn -:- What good news! -:- Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 17:52:26 (GMT)
__ __ __ rumors -:- jagdeo story -:- Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 23:27:26 (GMT)
__ __ Jethro -:- Re:jagdeo:point of interest -:- Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 11:39:09 (GMT)
__ __ __ AJW -:- Re:jagdeo:point of interest -:- Sat, Jan 22, 2000 at 13:37:43 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Susan -:- what is this cock crow thing? -:- Sat, Jan 22, 2000 at 17:46:41 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ JHB -:- what is this cock crow thing? -:- Sun, Jan 23, 2000 at 00:30:36 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Coach -:- what is this cock crow thing? -:- Sat, Jan 22, 2000 at 19:10:32 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Robyn -:- what is this cock crow thing? -:- Sun, Jan 23, 2000 at 02:02:54 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Susan -:- what is this cock crow thing? -:- Sun, Jan 23, 2000 at 07:40:54 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ AJW -:- Bible Stories. -:- Sun, Jan 23, 2000 at 11:18:56 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Susan -:- Thanks Anth... -:- Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 05:26:49 (GMT)
__ Roger eDrek™ -:- An interesting allegatition -:- Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 01:49:49 (GMT)

oldie -:- Gem in Carols Pro M post -:- Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 21:44:21 (GMT)
__ Scott T. -:- Gem in Carols Pro M post -:- Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 13:39:37 (GMT)
__ Mike -:- Add to that..... -:- Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 22:13:40 (GMT)

Carol -:- Banned from Recent Ex -:- Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 20:28:20 (GMT)
__ Scott T. -:- Banned from Recent Ex -:- Mon, Jan 24, 2000 at 15:00:57 (GMT)
__ Anon -:- Banned from Recent Ex -:- Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 23:20:23 (GMT)
__ __ Scott T. -:- Banned from Recent Ex -:- Mon, Jan 24, 2000 at 07:36:43 (GMT)
__ __ __ Anon -:- Banned from Recent Ex -:- Mon, Jan 24, 2000 at 10:04:25 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Scott T. -:- Banned from Recent Ex -:- Mon, Jan 24, 2000 at 13:36:35 (GMT)
__ __ Runamok -:- Discussion of Anon's post -:- Sat, Jan 22, 2000 at 07:06:59 (GMT)
__ __ __ Anon -:- Discussion of Anon's post -:- Sun, Jan 23, 2000 at 17:04:04 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Runamok -:- Discussion of Anon's post -:- Sun, Jan 23, 2000 at 21:02:09 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Anon -:- Discussion of Anon's post -:- Sun, Jan 23, 2000 at 22:48:33 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Anon -:- Discussion of Anon's post -:- Sun, Jan 23, 2000 at 23:32:26 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ CQG -:- Tobacco co. analogy - spot on! -:- Mon, Jan 24, 2000 at 20:54:33 (GMT)
__ __ gerry -:- Brilliant Anon, just brilliant -:- Sat, Jan 22, 2000 at 04:32:48 (GMT)
__ __ __ Roger eDrek™ -:- I can stand corrected -:- Sat, Jan 22, 2000 at 09:20:18 (GMT)
__ Christopher -:- Perhaps that's what you want? -:- Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 18:56:58 (GMT)
__ You are -:- an intersting case Carol -:- Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 17:44:36 (GMT)
__ __ Scott T. -:- an intersting case Carol -:- Mon, Jan 24, 2000 at 13:49:16 (GMT)
__ __ Robyn -:- an intersting case Carol -:- Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 22:38:19 (GMT)
__ __ Mike -:- an intersting case Carol -:- Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 19:44:24 (GMT)
__ __ __ Quite arrogant -:- of you Mike -:- Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 20:34:34 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Mike -:- Nope.... -:- Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 22:14:19 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Uh, sorry Mr. Mike -:- but... -:- Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 23:04:52 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Mike -:- Your forgiven -:- Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 23:28:52 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Truth is -:- a relative thing -:- Sat, Jan 22, 2000 at 01:25:04 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Mickey Moss -:- a relative thing -:- Mon, Jan 24, 2000 at 14:15:04 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Mike -:- Thanks, Mickey -:- Mon, Jan 24, 2000 at 22:57:54 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Mike -:- not relative -:- Sat, Jan 22, 2000 at 02:13:49 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Stay cool & on topic -:- Mike -:- Sat, Jan 22, 2000 at 06:52:19 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Mike -:- You are a moron! -:- Sat, Jan 22, 2000 at 15:06:19 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ tsk, tsk... -:- typical (nt) -:- Mon, Jan 24, 2000 at 22:02:13 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Mike -:- You're dismissed(nt) -:- Mon, Jan 24, 2000 at 23:06:06 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ CQG -:- Attention-seeking, are you? -:- Sat, Jan 22, 2000 at 14:07:36 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ CQG -:- What?...and spoil all the fun? -:- Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 20:55:37 (GMT)
__ __ Christopher -:- Even more interesting ... -:- Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 19:41:55 (GMT)
__ AJW -:- Carol, you're in your mind. -:- Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 10:58:28 (GMT)
__ __ Selene -:- a true reality check AJW -:- Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 20:40:57 (GMT)
__ CD -:- Banned from Recent Ex -:- Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 08:56:23 (GMT)
__ Jean-Michel -:- But not from the whiners yet! -:- Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 08:25:27 (GMT)
__ __ Roger eDrek™ -:- Hey, I'm not done with you yet -:- Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 08:39:57 (GMT)
__ Brian -:- Bullshit, Carol -:- Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 04:56:58 (GMT)
__ __ Anus McPenis -:- Bullshit, Carol -:- Sat, Jan 22, 2000 at 06:50:23 (GMT)
__ __ carol the current version -:- Well,Fuck!!! Who am I anyway? -:- Sat, Jan 22, 2000 at 02:07:28 (GMT)
__ __ __ Scott T. -:- Well, anyway? -:- Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 06:27:25 (GMT)
__ __ __ Coach -:- For Gawd's Sake -:- Sat, Jan 22, 2000 at 19:23:49 (GMT)
__ __ __ Runamok 2.1 -:- Come see my 'banned'! -:- Sat, Jan 22, 2000 at 08:57:12 (GMT)
__ __ __ Roger eDrek™ -:- Bravo, Carol -:- Sat, Jan 22, 2000 at 08:20:27 (GMT)
__ __ Kerd -:- Wow! -:- Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 05:47:38 (GMT)
__ __ __ Especially since Mr. Kerd -:- and Drek are one and the same -:- Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 16:28:48 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Mr. Wayne Kerd -:- No! You do say. (NT) -:- Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 17:03:36 (GMT)
__ __ Powerman -:- ***Roger***Best of (nt) -:- Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 05:36:06 (GMT)
__ __ __ Roger eDrek™ -:- Say what, where? Huh? NT -:- Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 06:50:58 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Powerman -:- Brian's response to Carol NT -:- Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 06:52:57 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Roger eDrek™ -:- Ok! You got it! ***Best*** -:- Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 07:20:08 (GMT)
__ Sir Dave -:- I sympathise with you Carol -:- Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 01:27:08 (GMT)
__ __ Gerry -:- Carol, you got runamoked !!! -:- Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 01:50:11 (GMT)
__ __ __ Roger eDrek™ -:- Ger, don't want to be the one -:- Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 05:39:44 (GMT)
__ JHB -:- Banned from Recent Ex -:- Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 00:42:07 (GMT)
__ Roger eDrek™ -:- I offer hope - a new forum! -:- Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 21:59:56 (GMT)
__ __ AJW -:- I offer hope - a new forum! -:- Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 10:07:39 (GMT)
__ __ Mike -:- Where's Jim????? -:- Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 22:08:45 (GMT)
__ __ __ x -:- Where's Jim????? -:- Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 09:04:14 (GMT)
__ __ __ Roger eDrek™ -:- Sorry, Mike Dogma is for... -:- Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 22:15:29 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Mike -:- Nah, the suit's hung-up -:- Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 00:04:49 (GMT)
__ Christopher -:- oh dear ... -:- Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 21:25:42 (GMT)
__ Mike -:- Can you not accept the fact -:- Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 21:20:27 (GMT)
__ __ CD -:- Oh yeah -:- Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 09:24:40 (GMT)
__ __ __ Scott T. -:- Oh yeah -:- Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 06:46:09 (GMT)
__ __ __ Mike -:- Oh sure -:- Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 14:42:00 (GMT)

michael -:- none so blind -:- Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 19:52:46 (GMT)
__ CD -:- blindy my wart -:- Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 09:11:20 (GMT)
__ __ Scott T. -:- blondely my fart -:- Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 06:59:47 (GMT)
__ __ mantis -:- blindy? -:- Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 23:19:46 (GMT)
__ __ michael -:- blindy my wart -:- Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 18:30:23 (GMT)
__ __ __ Shifting -:- Why is it that ... -:- Sun, Jan 23, 2000 at 03:43:17 (GMT)
__ __ Mike -:- blindy my wart -:- Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 15:27:58 (GMT)
__ Roger eDrek™ -:- I'm so easy ***Best*** -:- Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 20:55:14 (GMT)
__ __ michael -:- ***Best*** me? shucks -:- Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 23:17:18 (GMT)
__ __ __ Roger eDrek™ -:- It's ***worse*** than that! -:- Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 01:35:16 (GMT)
__ __ __ Mike -:- Damned straight!!!! -:- Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 00:09:12 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ michael -:- wish it were origional (nt) -:- Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 00:19:24 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Mike -:- Here's another one.... -:- Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 14:58:49 (GMT)
__ michael -:- as it was so it is -:- Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 20:15:56 (GMT)

Cathy -:- let me out of here!!!!! -:- Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 12:17:56 (GMT)
__ AJW -:- Greetings Soul Sister -:- Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 11:06:57 (GMT)
__ __ Robyn -:- Greetings Soul Sister -:- Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 13:06:15 (GMT)
__ From -:- A Person Less High Than Cathy -:- Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 20:10:56 (GMT)
__ Mike -:- BWAH HA HA HA HA HA -:- Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 15:25:30 (GMT)

Anon -:- To Carol. re: judging M -:- Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 11:16:32 (GMT)
__ Roger eDrek™ -:- ***Best*** because I say so! -:- Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 06:43:36 (GMT)
__ VP -:- To Carol. re: judging M -:- Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 03:32:51 (GMT)
__ Carol -:- I agree completely!!!!! -:- Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 21:05:44 (GMT)
__ __ Anon -:- I agree completely!!!!! -:- Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 23:32:43 (GMT)
__ __ JHB -:- Re: I agree completely!!!!! -:- Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 01:39:55 (GMT)
__ a premie -:- To Carol. re: judging M -:- Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 12:07:53 (GMT)
__ __ Mike -:- To 'a premie' -:- Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 15:23:59 (GMT)
__ __ __ Shifting -:- AMEN -:- Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 16:18:44 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Sir Dave -:- AMEN -:- Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 18:18:57 (GMT)
__ __ Anon -:- I beg your pardon? -:- Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 14:20:01 (GMT)
__ __ __ Christopher -:- I beg your pardon? -:- Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 18:32:34 (GMT)


Date: Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 23:41:44 (GMT)
From: michael
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: the journal of CQG
Message:
I just re-read your journal, Christopher Quartus Giles. Thank you for your eloquent words. I feel more inspired to continue work on my own journal.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Jan 22, 2000 at 14:14:36 (GMT)
From: CQG
Email: None
To: michael
Subject: awww...shucks,gone all coy(nt)
Message:
Actually it needs some work done on it. One of these days.
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Date: Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 22:22:03 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek™
Email: drek@oz.net
To: Everyone
Subject: Skepticism is a virtue
Message:
Today I saw the following on poster pasted to a wall. It was an advertisement for Brill's Content:

Skepticism is a Weapon. It deflects spin, propaganda, P.R.,B.S. Press Agents, Publicity Seekers, hearsay, unnamed sources, and anyone with a hidden agenda.

Skepticism is the sneaking suspicion that all Aspirin are the same.

Skepticism is that little voice that tells you you'll never be a millionaire with little or no money down.

Skepticism is a quality shared by truth seekers, freethinkers and realists.

Skepticism makes the World accountable.

Skepticism demands that Proof and Facts be Unsanitized, Uncensored and Unembellished.

Skepticism is a virtue.


Interesting, don't you think?

Of course, skepticism is a double edged sword that we live and die by as well.

Everything that we see on these Forums should be subject to skepticism like all information in general.

However, I would like to think that we are providing a healthy dose of skepticism to Maharaji where prior to us was the press which has pretty much lost interest since the heyday of the 1970's. And likewise we should be skeptical of each other here on the forums. I don't think that we should be afraid of offending each other and dance around issues in a bogus, but well-meaning misdirected effort to present a united front or anything else.

Again, there's plenty of other people and things on the forums to be skeptical about, too. You should even be skeptical of me. After all, I might be a plant. DOOM and gloom, you know.

Skepticism is a virtue. And that's how we got here.

Let 'er rip!

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Date: Sat, Jan 22, 2000 at 15:09:49 (GMT)
From: CQG
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek™
Subject: The more he became truly wise:
Message:
'The more he became truly wise, the more he distrusted everything he knew.'

- Voltaire, in his Dictionnaire, describing a theologian.

And so too could Bertrand Russell (link) come up with a good one now and again.

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Date: Sat, Jan 22, 2000 at 01:27:52 (GMT)
From: I'm skeptical of
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek™
Subject: that statement Mr. Kerde
Message:
nt
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Date: Sat, Jan 22, 2000 at 08:11:30 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek™
Email: drek@oz.net
To: I'm skeptical of
Subject: That's the attitude I wana see
Message:
Corrected Subject Line: That's the attitude I wanna see

Yes, Kerde is much better than Kerd. Thank you.

I just got back from seeing American Beauty for the second time and I've selected a new street name as my last one of nearly five years has been running into trouble lately.

I've had nicknames and street names all my life.

Love,

Ricky Fitts

P.S. No, I ain't got none of that G-13 or any of that other stuff, but I've got you on film.

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Date: Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 22:50:31 (GMT)
From: mantis
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek™
Subject: I'll see it when I believe it!
Message:
I'll see it when I believe it! Other than me who else is really on this forum? Am I just posting to myself(s) over and over again? Or, is it someone else? How will I know? Do I care?

Ohmygurumaharajji!?!?!? If I pranam just right, will you do me? I'll pay you...please...do me!

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Date: Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 14:34:57 (GMT)
From: JHB
Email: brauns@dircon.co.uk
To: Everyone
Subject: First Transatlantic Exes Meet
Message:
On Saturday February 12th ex-premies from the USA, France and the UK via Ireland and Latvia will be gathering in the Latvian Club bar in London from about 7:30 pm. The main subjects for discussion will the quality of Latvian beer and vodka, how Leeds United performed against Tottenham Hotspurs that day, the British newspaper business, and some short fat Indian guy who lives in California.

All exes welcome, and any premies who want a good argument:-)

Email me for further details.

John

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Date: Sat, Jan 22, 2000 at 12:37:11 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Royalty
Message:
Hi John,

Will there be any royalty in attendance again?

Will the bar staff give us the keys and go home again?

Will mysteriously large Latvians appear suddenly about 3 oclock in the morning and offer to buy us drinks?

Will Hamzen go home 20 miles in the wrong direction?

Will Jethro wear a shirt?

Are there any tips on the ends of the Latvian pool cues yet?

What's the name of that really strong beer that nobody should drink unless they want to go numb for three days and blind for one?

Take Care

Anth the Zeltad

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Date: Sat, Jan 22, 2000 at 18:09:57 (GMT)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Royalty
Message:
Maybe
Yes
Yes
Probably
Probably not
No
Porteris
I will
John the Kristaldzidraised
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Date: Sat, Jan 22, 2000 at 16:47:34 (GMT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Royalty
Message:
Dear Brits, Frenchmen, and Marianne, :)
You know it is killing me, I WANT TO BE THERE. Just PLEASE don't tell me there will be dancing, I can't live with the thought that I could be having a hell of a time with all of you and dancing also. :)
Have a great time!
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Sun, Jan 23, 2000 at 11:04:58 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Robyn
Subject: Live Broadcast
Message:
Hey Robyn,

You gave me a great idea.

We could fix a webcam to a portable and do a live broadcast of the decadent proceedings on the net.

(In view of the large startup costs, there'll be a mininim registration fee of $50 of course).

I'll suggest it at the next Latvian Council Meeting.

Anth the Set Alight.

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Date: Sun, Jan 23, 2000 at 15:43:46 (GMT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Live Broadcast
Message:
Dear Anth,
Nothing like being there, don't forget I was out before the video thing started! Reminds me of men being into porn. I want the real thing and I don't want to pay to be a voyuer. :)
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Mon, Jan 24, 2000 at 10:45:51 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Robyn
Subject: Amazing...
Message:
...connection you made there Robyn.

We could go a long way on 'What is porn v what is Art?' and another favorite of mine, 'What's wrong with porn anyway'?

As long as consenting adilts are partaking of their own free will, and nothing happens to anyone that they don't want, and any explicit resulting material is kept away from minors, what's the problem?

Some women are into porn too, as well as men. And some men aren't into it They're the one's I don't understand. It just don't seem natural not to be attracted to naked pictures of human bodies that you find sexually attractive.

And as regards the 'real thing' v 'porn'.

What if the object of your desires is a beautiful wild Cuban women and your wife is due home from work in about 20 minutes? Taking the long term view, what's it better for her to see when she opens the bedroom door, 'Mariella De Puentes,' hot and naked under the duvet for real, or me reading a history book, with Mariella slid discreetly under the pillow?

Not to mention where would she sleep as we don't have a spare bedroom, and where I would get the axe taken out of my head.

I've written a poem about this sort of thing Robyn, I'll send you a copy.

Anth the Historian

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Date: Mon, Jan 24, 2000 at 20:31:57 (GMT)
From: CQG
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Amazing.. how much? (nt)
Message:
... hot and naked under the duvet for real (no, not you, Anth)
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Date: Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 02:09:10 (GMT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: CQG
Subject: Amazing.. how much? (nt)
Message:
Dear CQG,
How much what?
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 15:09:37 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Robyn
Subject: Amazing.. how much? (nt)
Message:
Robyn,

Do you think he'd change his mind if he saw that photo of me in my little pink number?

Anthia the Flirt

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Date: Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 20:30:06 (GMT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Amazing.. how much? (nt)
Message:
Dear Anth,
You are just darling in it honey. :) Maybe on your transatlantic Latvian night you could doll yourself up and show Chris your feminine side. :)
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 18:29:08 (GMT)
From: CQG
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: What little pink number? (nt)
Message:

CQG responded:
What little pink number? (nt)
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Date: Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 09:31:08 (GMT)
From: CQG
Email: None
To: Robyn
Subject: Sometimes(nt)isn't nt!(nt)::))
Message:

CQG responded:
'tis this time though. - on second thoughts ...
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Date: Sat, Jan 22, 2000 at 18:07:11 (GMT)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Robyn
Subject: Royalty
Message:
There will be dancing.
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Date: Sat, Jan 22, 2000 at 18:44:38 (GMT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Royalty
Message:
Oh, John,
Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh! You are so cruel!!!!!!!!!!
Robyn the distrought
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Date: Sat, Jan 22, 2000 at 13:31:26 (GMT)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Gatorade
Message:
I'm already guzzling large amounts of Gatorade, my post drink cure/elixir of choice, in anticipation of the hangover I'm going to have!

It's sure to be a grand evening!

Please encourage other females exes to come. I love ya all but I'd like some girlfriends to hang out with too! Robyn, how about catchin' a plane?

Love, Marianne

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Date: Sun, Jan 23, 2000 at 11:07:54 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: Gatorade
Message:
Hi Marianne,

I thought 'Gatorade' was a Florida charity, set up to stop alligators becoming extinct.

Anth the Etymologically Confused.

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Date: Sun, Jan 23, 2000 at 15:40:57 (GMT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Gatorade
Message:
Dear Anth,
Gatorade is a NASTY drink but has electorlights and or salts that you need when you sweat and work out. Must be Marianne is going to dance, dance, dance. :)
When I was a drinker I would have to be very careful what I ate before going out, NO fruit or veggies that was for sure. Something blan and able to soak up liquid. Then when I came home I'd shower, all that cigarette smoke, and bay a small bowl of Cherrios, do you know Cherrios? Then I'd still get sick as a dog! :)
Once, staying at a friends after a night out I was very sick for 13 hours and finally drove 20 miles home in my nighgown with a plastic container w/ lid! Half my problem was they only had an outhouse! GAK!
If I ever do get to little Latvia in England I'll be stepping out for a ricola I am sure. :)
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Mon, Jan 24, 2000 at 17:35:22 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Robyn
Subject: Electric Lights
Message:
Hi Robyn,

we've had electric lights in Europe since the 30s, when Mr Philips in Eindhoven invented the light bulb.

I didn't know they were putting them in drinks though.

I've had another bright idea. I got my scanner working today, so we can take some Latvian pics and send them.

anth the fullofbrightideasbutcan'tfindhisshoes

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Date: Mon, Jan 24, 2000 at 18:32:24 (GMT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Electric Lights
Message:
Dear Anth,
Pictures would be great thanks! :) There won't be a 'designated photographer' though so they should get interesting as the night wears on! :)
Do you know what a designated driver is? Someone to stay sober and drive their drunk friends around. That is me because I can't drink anymore, I do sometimes but not much, but I am a good one for it because I can escalte my behavior along with theirs with no probelm. I would get to out there when I was drinking! I would tell my friend who was the bar tender that when I put my drink in my bra and bend me head to drink from the straw, that was a sign I had had enough and that I would never rememeber doing that and to cut me off! So with a bit of ricola and a group of drunks I can really seem like one of the gang. :)
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Sat, Jan 22, 2000 at 23:41:06 (GMT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: Gatorade
Message:
Dear Marianne,
Somehow I missed your post today dear! I would LOVE to be there, you know that. I do write to a dear friend who is a premie and this person referred to me as a friend just like M is. I replied well if I am a friend like M is a friend then will you be making donations to ME!? This premie said yes, how did I want them, now I know, a plane ticket to little Latvia in England! ;)
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 17:06:41 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: We did agree on wine !
Message:
I insist, you've changed the terms!!!

Don't piss me off already!

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Date: Sat, Jan 22, 2000 at 09:25:25 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek™
Email: drek@oz.net
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Before it's too late! BYOB!
Message:
No, no, no!

Bring your own bottle!

Don't drink J-M's wine. Sure, it's fifty years old and it's from France, but so were the Coneheads.

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Date: Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 17:20:47 (GMT)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: We did agree on wine !
Message:
We agreed we could drink wine. I never said anything about wine being a topic of conversation:-)

John the pedant!

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Date: Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 18:10:53 (GMT)
From: Christopher
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: I'll a(hic)gree, agree on wine
Message:
Can we bring our own bottles? Does the Latvian Club charge 'corkage'? Where is the Latvian Club? Who am I?

Answers, soon, .... puleeeeeeezzzzz.

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Date: Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 19:08:46 (GMT)
From: JHB
Email: brauns@dircon.co.uk
To: Christopher
Subject: I'll a(hic)gree, agree on wine
Message:
Christopher,

As it's a bar, bringing your own drink would be inappropriate:-) If you are serious about coming, please email me for details.

All the best,

John.

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Date: Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 18:08:38 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Then we will
Message:
I guess, unless you don't like it. I have no idea what Latvian wine tastes like ....
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Date: Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 19:06:00 (GMT)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Then we will
Message:
Sorry, J-M, I've unwittingly misled you. The beer and vodka is Latvian, but the wine isn't. We only have a small range because of the small range of customers but it's quite drinkable.

John.

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Date: Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 12:25:37 (GMT)
From: Christopher
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: simple questions
Message:
From the Maha's website, quote: 'There is no charge for attending events at which Maharaji speaks' endquote.

Is this true?

If so, then how does the guy manage to afford a Gulfstream?

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Date: Sat, Jan 22, 2000 at 13:11:00 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Christopher
Subject: 'No Charge'.
Message:
Hi Christopher,

What 'No charge for the event' means is, if it's a local video programmme, there's someone sitting at a small desk, outside the door, with an open cash box. There is an extortionate rental fee for the video, paid to Visions, somehow through the Elan Vital organisation. There is also sometimes a small rent to pay if the video is shown in a community hall or hired room. So, people attending the event, understanding that there are 'costs' (you never question it if you're a premie, it's all for 'heem' anyway). And, if everyone coughs up about a fiver, that should just about cover it. So, 'A voluntary donation is requested, and if everyone paid about a fiver each things should be covered'.

Nobody who goes to a video has any idea how much the local community pay to Visions each month to watch Maharaji talking to some gaga co-ordinators in Kuala Lumpa, two years ago. Nobody cares anyway. It's all one. The premies understand this, the non-premies understand it, but I'm not sure if the world of bureacracy out there understands it.

Anyway, that's the local video events as I understand it.

It looks like, live satellite broadcasts are being pushed into the same network, which of course, are much more expensive.

Then there is the 'volutary donation' or 'registration' to go and see your master in person. This is worked out using the same vague type of formula as for videos,

Something like,

Gross Cost of Event = Maximum amount of cash that can be wrung out of maximum number of attendees.

Maharaji's finances, along with those of the charitable end of the cult, the associated businesses and companies is a hotch potch of schemes and connections. If you step back from it, it's all set up to feed cash from the premies to Maharaji as efficiently as possible.

To the premies it all makes sense. It's his creation after all. Really his jets, cars and mansions are paltry compared to what he should have. Because he's the Creator, it all belongs to him anyway.

And besides, everyone fiddles their income tax.

I hope this answers part of your question.

Anth, Still Looking For The truth Amongst It All.

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Date: Sat, Jan 22, 2000 at 18:25:23 (GMT)
From: Coach
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Charity?
Message:
Anth,

On the whole I'd say charities give away their goodies. EV charging admission for link-ups, videos, in fact everything, is a bit like the Salvation Army charging the homeless for the soup-run. Odd to say the least and not very charitable.

Coach

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Date: Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 14:56:36 (GMT)
From: Evergreen
Email: None
To: Christopher
Subject: Toys and Lilla
Message:
Christopher...there has been a number of jets owned in the past by M...this is the latest of them...I remember in the 80's communities were asked to donate for M's jet...this would be either in the form of special programs where donations were requested by instructors or one to one premie talk...the explanation given was that this would help M's work , and his ability to travel worldwide from program to program unhindered and hassle free..its like if you have your toothbrush and toothpaste with you you are more mobile...

You have to understand that M always loved cars, planes, motorbikes, boats and camping homes...I remember when he first learnt to fly..it was conisdered cool by alot of premies to go on flying courses..one such premie I know who also took his pilot's license is Saphlanand...or Brian whatsit...

And it was also considered at the time that these toys of M were just his lila...he can do whatever he want..because that is his lila...the whole universe was his lila..so a little jet is just kind of an extention of that....

When he was driven from Heathrow aiport to London when he first came to the west (71?)..it was in a rolls royce....a rented one...on arrival at his residence in london, he asked where the rolla was...and was told..sorry this was just a rented one...he was then driven around by an old worn out car belonging to a premie and his wife...

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Date: Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 15:19:08 (GMT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Evergreen
Subject: Gimme a BREAK!
Message:
EV: you said, 'You have to understand that M always LOVED cars, planes, motorbikes, boats and camping homes'.....(emphasis mine)

First, I don't HAVE TO UNDERSTAND anything, but on this point I agree with you! M always did, does and always will LOVE inanimate possessions.

But please tell me, where is the 'moderation' in his insatiable desire for MORE STUFF! I'll ask you because no other premie seems to want to deal with this.

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Date: Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 16:13:44 (GMT)
From: Evergreen
Email: None
To: Mike
Subject: Gimme a BREAK! Ya me too
Message:
Look Mike..I told you many times ...I aint a Premie..right...now we got this sorted out...

Why dont you ask him.....

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Date: Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 18:15:59 (GMT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Evergreen
Subject: Because he won't answer
Message:
EV: Send him an email...... and wait...... and wait...... and wait! He won't talk to us because he doesn't have any answers! He won't talk because he is so conceited that he thinks we're 'beneath' him...... after all he is the lard of the universe, satrugu, the 'one.'

All he has done with his absolute silence is convince me that he is also a coward! Jeez, god's a coward! That's funny, I always thought god was 'love,' not 'fear.' My bust, I guess I was wrong!

Go ahead EV, send him an email and see how fast his response to you is. We've done it already and had no luck. He isn't the 'answer.'

Sorry, EV, your staunch defense of the indefensable (M) tags you as a premie..... I calls it likes I sees it!

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Date: Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 20:11:42 (GMT)
From: Evergreen
Email: None
To: Mike
Subject: Because he won't answer
Message:
I am not defending M....I am just stating Premiespeak...you know ...how you and I thought in those days....lets face it we did think those thoughts then....now we think differently...
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Date: Sat, Jan 22, 2000 at 18:34:06 (GMT)
From: Coach
Email: None
To: Evergreen
Subject: Yer leaves are wilting
Message:

Coach responded:
OK, fence sitter, whaddya think of him now?

Coach

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Date: Sat, Jan 22, 2000 at 20:16:56 (GMT)
From: Evergreen
Email: None
To: Coach
Subject: Yers too
Message:
I disagree with many things but maily along the philosophical lines of argument...not particularly bothered if he sits on gold plated toilet seats or not...

'God is great but Guru is Greater then God becaus he can show you God'

Well..I dont think that Guru is Greater then God..and I dont think that Guru can show you God....and I dont think that being shown a light in your head is being shown God...

Coach...what are you a coach off by the way...u joined the Washington Wizzards with Michael Jordan?????

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Date: Sun, Jan 23, 2000 at 15:04:30 (GMT)
From: Scott T.
Email: freewheeling@bigfoot.com
To: Evergreen
Subject: Yers too
Message:
Evergreen:

Re: I disagree with many things but maily along the philosophical lines of argument...not particularly bothered if he sits on gold plated toilet seats or not...

The 'philosophy,' such as it is, is about as important as the toilet paper.

--Scott

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Date: Sat, Jan 22, 2000 at 22:30:55 (GMT)
From: Coach
Email: None
To: Evergreen
Subject: Yup, you're green alright.
Message:

Coach responded:
Nice evasive answer, punk.

I asked what you thought. Not what you didn't think.

An' don't get sassy.

Coach

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Date: Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 14:16:55 (GMT)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Christopher
Subject: simple questions
Message:
When I became an ex I added up all the money I gave DLM, EV and M directly over 25 years and it came to about $30,000.

I still receive stuff from EV including the pre satellite invite asking for 25 pounds donation and also a separate invition to write a cheque dated 1/1/2000 - my first donation of the millenium. I think they may have to wait until the next millemium for that:-)

So how does he get money? He gets his organisation to ask for it. Very simple.

John.

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Date: Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 17:59:39 (GMT)
From: Christopher
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: simple questions
Message:
Hi there John,

You say: 'So how does he get money? He gets his organisation to ask for it. Very simple.'

Can this be done under the guise of being a registered public charity?

Isn't it more akin to (as they call it in the UK) 'soliciting'?

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Date: Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 19:23:57 (GMT)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Christopher
Subject: simple questions
Message:
What they do is what Al Capone did - have two sets of books - one to show the authorities to prove that all donations are used for authorised EV activities, and one that includes all the money syphoned off for Maharaji's personal use. It's pretty easy if you have a compliant group of workers who actually believe the fraud is morally correct, as Maharaji has with his devotees.

There is also among certain premies a shared feeling of pride that donations should be made personally to Maharaji. This idea is of course spread subtly, but it certainly reached me, and I was never anyone important in EV/DLM.

Anyway, all that will be required to bring down EV is for one of the premies doing the false accounting to recognise that what they are doing is wrong and spill the beans. This will happen, I am sure of it.

John the believer in Right and Wrong.

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Date: Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 20:02:50 (GMT)
From: Christopher
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Al Capone?
Message:
and the meet at the Latvian is .... when ???

Two days short?

Oh. That's alright then.

Signed: your funny Valentine

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Date: Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 14:02:33 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Christopher
Subject: simple answer
Message:
there is no 'charge' !

donation is required.

Because it's tax exempted, you know.

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Date: Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 14:04:49 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: and proof !
Message:
Where's the link to the latest EV's letter that premies received before the last TV show?

Here is the answer, anybody can read. This is a fact.

Of course it's coming from EV, not from DOOM!!

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Date: Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 18:42:54 (GMT)
From: Christopher
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: and proof !
Message:

Christopher responded:
Found the letter, JM, in the Forum V archive:

(extract)

'This is a special broadcast and has cost a lot of money to prepare and to broadcast around the globe. To cover these costs, there will be an admission charge of £20 per person, with the opportunity to pre-register at local events before the broadcast, or at the broadcast itself. This amount is intended to cover our expenses including local hall costs and VAT.

It is imperative that this amount per person is paid in order for future broadcasts to be possible. However, this is not a strict condition for access, as a reduced payment will be acceptable if you are unemployed. To allow for this to happen we do request that those able to do so make an additional donation over and above the £20 charge.'

.................................. .................................. .................................. .................................. .................................. .................................. ..................................

The statement on his website is evidently false.

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Date: Sat, Jan 22, 2000 at 08:05:30 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Christopher
Subject: Where's that damn link?
Message:
I'd like to retrieve the document!
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Date: Sat, Jan 22, 2000 at 08:46:15 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Here's the LINK
Message:
Who said it's untrue?

EV UK is asking for donations

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Date: Sat, Jan 22, 2000 at 13:34:52 (GMT)
From: CQG
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: I say it's untrue, viz ...
Message:

CQG responded:
I say it's untrue, viz ...in black and white:

From the Maha's website: 'There is no charge for attending events at which Maharaji speaks'

and -

from the 'unique event' letter:
'...there will be an admission charge of £20 per person'

Whether or not donations might be requested as well doesn't alter the fact one jot.

Christopher

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Date: Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 22:54:56 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: CQG
Subject: REGISTERED AS A CARITY
Message:

Notice that at the end of the letter is says

'REGISTERED AS A CARITY'

I guess whoever typed it couldn't bring themselves to
spell charity correctly.

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Date: Wed, Jan 26, 2000 at 18:21:24 (GMT)
From: CQG
Email: None
To: G
Subject: Original said 'Charity' (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Sun, Jan 23, 2000 at 03:15:37 (GMT)
From: Elan Vital blew it...
Email: None
To: all
Subject: I say it's untrue, viz ...
Message:
What they wrote doesn't make any sense. But here it's in the forums, to be seen, forever. I don't know how to send links. Did anybody sent it to Maharaji accompanied with few wrods? Can somebody do it?

Shifting

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Date: Mon, Jan 24, 2000 at 21:20:53 (GMT)
From: CQG
Email: None
To: Shifting
Subject: viz ...
Message:

CQG responded:
'Can somebody do it?'

Where's that mirror?

P.S. links are not so difficult - I found ex-premie.org's >Forum Help page indispensible.

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Date: Sat, Jan 22, 2000 at 13:52:42 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: CQG
Subject: Truth needs to be available
Message:
on a permanent basis IMO.

Who wants to gather these documents and make something out of them? I guess aspirants might be enlightened with this.

There are plenty of issues like this one:

1/ Rawat says he's a mere meditation teacher ... when he said he's God.
2/ Rawat says knowledge is free and nothing is ever charged, when donation is required.
etc etc

Shall we make a list?

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Date: Sat, Jan 22, 2000 at 14:10:39 (GMT)
From: CQG
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Perhaps in a new thread? (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 09:30:46 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek™
Email: drek@oz.net
To: Everyone
Subject: Maharaji's Gulfstream Jet
Message:
The one thing I didn't check out was how much one of these babies costs. I'd guess that the GV costs more than the Malibu Marble Palace and that's a lot of dough. Say $30 million easy?

I'm not sure which model Gulfstream Maharaji owns, but if it's not the Gulfstream V then you know that fat boy is lusting for one real bad.

Just yesterday, January 20, 2000 Apple Board Of
Directors Rewards CEO Steve Jobs With Gulfstream V.

The Gulfstream V is also flown by Bill Gates, although Bill does not fly it
himself.

It's pretty much a no brainer that the Gulfstream is THE private jet to own. 'The Gulfstream V is capable of flying 6,500 nautical miles and at speeds up to Mach .885.' Maybe Mikey can tell us just how fast that is.

Check out the Gulfstream. I couldn't get the Apple VR (Virtual Reality) to work, but I looked at the Hi-Res 3.6 meg interior shot (TIF format) and I gotta say that we bought Maharaji one beautiful aircraft. I sure hope that Maharaji didn't let Dettmers and DECA screw with that interior. Ok, maybe they got that special molded to Maharaji's butt captain's throne.

Don't bother viewing the 31 second 3.5 meg movie - boring.

There is a 1.44 meg and 2.5 meg Windows 98/95/NT screensavers for free downloading as well as a Macintosh screen saver version (2.5MB). Hey, Rob, now WE know what screen saver Maharaji has - the Mac one, of course.

Oh, Maharaji, you see everyday we know more and more about you. In many ways we are still fascinated by you. How about giving us a ride in that jet of yours? We paid for it, didn't we? You know we did, one way or another.

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Date: Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 11:31:05 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek™
Subject: Here it is
Message:
You definitely need an update ...

Look at the Proud Pilot

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Date: Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 12:13:46 (GMT)
From: Eddy
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Miami jet co. run by Rajaji?
Message:
Has anyone heard of a company in Miami which overhauls jets and puts in special seats and furniture run by Rajaji in the mid 80's from Miami..I beleieve it may have been called Star Enterprises...

Reason why I ask, is because a Saudi businessman whom I know was very excited one day when he told me that he bought this Miami based company owned by a Mr Rawat ...it turns out that the company was bankrupt...and the Saudi lost his shirt on the deal...

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Date: Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 19:27:50 (GMT)
From: ij
Email: None
To: Eddy
Subject: Miami jet co. run by Rajaji?
Message:
Oh lord won't you buy me a Gulfstream?
All my friends have got Learjets
I must make amends.

IJ

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Date: Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 03:39:14 (GMT)
From: michael
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: history
Message:
Went digging and found this:
Message:
Nothing new in this article. They've obviously used information from ex-premie.org, and added a few mistakes. Maybe someone should tell them!

Elan Vital

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Date: Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 06:02:20 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek™
Email: drek@oz.net
To: michael
Subject: bad link in michael's post
Message:
michael, you've done a bad thing there. Your HTML was not perfect. Unfortunately, it has to be perfect or it don't work.

When I embed HTML links (anchor tags are the trickiest and easiest to goof up on and when you screw one up the problems cascades.) I always preview the message and test the link. (Well, most of the time.)

Actually, I've got the University of Virginia link at the House of Maharaji Drek in the False Links. I should probably spend some time sorting out the False Links and the Weak and Missing Links as much of the Weak Links info really belongs in the False Links. Too bad you can't just drag and drop that stuff from page to page. Well, maybe in FrontPage, but not in DOS EDLIN.

Anyway, there's a lot of links already on House of Maharaji Drek and I'm always willing to add new ones if you find them.

Let's see if I screwed up with anyone of these 3 I've put here.

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Date: Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 18:35:46 (GMT)
From: michael
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek™
Subject: thanks
Message:
I thought that it might not work. But did I test it? No! I am an Oracle DBA with over 15 years as a computer professional. I am so ashamed (he he he) that I did not test it. Please, beat me with an old ribbon cable until I..... sob! sob! sob! confess the truth, Bob Barker is my guru now!

God, I gotta get back to work soon!

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Date: Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 00:24:47 (GMT)
From: JHB
Email: brauns@dircon.co.uk
To: Everyone
Subject: Return to the Forum
Message:
So, I come back to the forum after a month in Latvia and find the usual stuff going on. Ex-premies giving calm, reasoned arguments showing maharaji is a fraud and a self aggrandising cult leader, loonies trying to disrupt the forum, new age spiritualists apologising for Maharaji's 'mistakes', and another UK expose of Cainer and Maharaji (where are the US exposes of Maharaji???).

Regarding Cainer, Jon, what the fuck are you doing? I remember you as a caring person with integrity. Moving to the Express to stop the exposure of the Jagdeo story is beneath you. Whatever you were paid to do that, and whatever pressure Maharaji put on you, was not worth that. Your heart, soul, or whatever you call it is worth more than that. I don't think it's too late for you to publicly dump the fat fraud and still save your job.

Happy new year everyone!

John Brauns

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Date: Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 10:42:34 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Welcome Back
Message:
Hi John,

Howya doin? So they've switched the electricity back on Riga I see.

I too wonder what Jon' is up to. I wrote him an email (in response what he put on Enjoyinglife.com, when he asked for reactions), but I didn't hear back from him. I've also appealed to him to contact me in messages I've put up here.

I know that Elan Vital went into a spin when the Jagdeo story was about to break. The week that the story was due to be published Jon' showed up at the Express. They've got a new editor from the Independent, Rosie someone or other. Her main job was to restore the flagging circulation figures. One of the Express owners contacted her the week the Jagdeo story was about to break with the news, 'I've got Cainer.' she apparently became very enthusiastic. Maybe here was a way to justify her fat wage packet by getting some readers back from their rival, the Mail.

Jon' had already embarassed the Mail a bit, when Private Eye pointed out that a cult member's column was on the opposite page to an anti-cult article. Obviously, to start working for the paper at the same time an article attacking the cult he was a member of, wasn't a good idea.

Jon' 'resigned' from the cult, apparently telling the Express that he couldn't be associated with an organisation which was under investigation for such serious child abuse allegations. He put out a very different message on Enjoyinglife.

Well, there was an uproar at the Express. It's bad enough when a story gets dropped for political reasons. This time there was a suggestion that the paper could be accused of protecting a cult paedophile to boost circulation figures.

The paper must have come to the conclusion, in view of his 'resignation from the cult' that Jon' was kosher.

Anyway, the Express dropped the story, and now Jon' is working for them. It looks like the people at the Express who were worried about the 'Jagdeo story turd' rising to the top of the swimming pool again may have been justified in their concern.

The story appeared in Private Eye last week(below), it's also appeared in at least one other magazine in the past few days, and at the weekend, somebody told me a reporter from the Daily Mail (Jon's old paper), has been trying to get in touch with me.

I think this one is blowing up in their faces. When the Express were originally going to run the story, it was going to be over a page on the inside.

This time the story is much more interesting, as Jon' is much better known in the UK than Maharaji, not to mention the blood that's going to splatter if the two papers, the Mail and the Express, get stuck into each other.

I wish Jon' would get in touch with me. (Email me Jon'). We both know he's a nice guy underneath his cult programming, but I think he's digging a big hole for himself by trying to play two games at once.

Take care, see you soon,

Oh yeah, apparently the word in the cult is that I'm trying to sell the Jagdeo child abuse story to the tabloid press to 'make money'.

What a fucking joke.

Anth the tabloid lover. (especially page 3).

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Date: Sat, Jan 22, 2000 at 13:38:38 (GMT)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: EV's Dirty Tricks
Message:
Anth: I would say that EV's rumor that you were trying to sell the Jagdeo story for money is the first salvo over the bow from them, an attempt at damage control. But, how silly it is for them to be pointing fingers at you -- falsely, of course -- by calling you greedy! I don't think that they ought to be relying upon financial avarice as their central complaint. If one wants to discuss greed, well..... let's start with Rotwat.

Very stupid. Also amateurish.

Marianne

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Date: Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 21:02:11 (GMT)
From: CQG
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: the word in the cult
Message:
'...apparently the word in the cult is that I'm trying to sell the Jagdeo child abuse story to the tabloid press to 'make money'.'

Why not donate any offers to the Private Eye Libel Defence Fund? (or whatever they call it).

P.S. Who was playing Gnome (thread below)?

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Date: Sat, Jan 22, 2000 at 18:56:12 (GMT)
From: Coach
Email: None
To: CQG
Subject: The Name of the Gnome
Message:

Coach responded:
Lord Gnome was played by Coach Hatherington, purely for dramatic effect, I assure you.

Coach

I'll be back

E.Strobes

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Date: Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 17:52:26 (GMT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: What good news!
Message:
Dear Anth,
I will look (below) for the article from the paper but I thought you meant below your post but in the same post. I thought the whole thing was over and done, swept under the rug. I was elated to read of this progress. I hope this development is of some help to the exes we know here who were victimised by that asshole and that maybe it will also help some others out there who may not know about 'us' here and were also victims. :) Thanks for all your hard work and caring in this which I know you did from the kindness of your heart and not for any monetary rewards!
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 23:27:26 (GMT)
From: rumors
Email: None
To: ajw
Subject: jagdeo story
Message:
Please let us know as soon as possible about any details from the jagdeo story and post the entire story on the site, along with links to other possible stories that might be relevant....
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Date: Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 11:39:09 (GMT)
From: Jethro
Email: None
To: AJW et al
Subject: Re:jagdeo:point of interest
Message:
Hi Anth, I met up with someone who was(is?) on the Elan-Vital investigating committee into the jagdeo allegations.
I asked him what he believed about it and he said 'At first I didn't believe it, but when I saw the totally indepenedent reports from the UK and the USA and saw that they described exactly the same behaviour patterns, I'd say jagdeo was in it up to his neck.'

All the best jethro

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Date: Sat, Jan 22, 2000 at 13:37:43 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Jethro
Subject: Re:jagdeo:point of interest
Message:
Hi Jeth'

I've heard various things. The one that rang true was that he'd been hidden away in an ashram in India. Nobody in Elan Vital has come clean about where he is and what he's doing, and if he's still being paid and supported by them, and if he's still got access to children. In spite of all their sanctimonious spouting, they've first denied he did it, then hidden and protected him.

Elan Vital think that there's no ongoing police investigation. This is the reason the Telegraph dropped the Jagdeo story. They are wrong however. The police investigation is continuing. I was in communication with a Detective Sergeant a few weeks ago. So I think the turd is still rising back to the surface on two fronts here.

My guess is they'll eventually have to throw jagdeo to the wolves, to keep the pressure off Maharaji. He's connected in two ways. There are clear, detailed accounts of conversations one of Jagdeo's victims had with two instructors when she was a premie. Both were asked to report Jagdeo's abuse to Maharaji, both came back and reported what he'd said to her. He did nothing and allowed Jagdeo to continue, uninteruppted, with his paedophile activites, in his role as a full-time cult priest.

Both Randy and Judy (the instructors) have since said, 'They can't remember being told of the allegations.', and presumably, neither of them can remember telling Maharaji, and neither of them can remember telling the victim what Maharaji's response was either. (They think they'll hear a cock crow three times if they tell the truth).

This is what the cult are scared of. Maharaji, as head of the cult, has certain responsibilities. In Britain the leader of an organisation is legally liable and responsible to ensure no child abuse takes place under the cloak of the organisation.

Jagdeo was definitely using his position as a mahatmas to sexually abuse children.

So, the saga goes on Jeth'.

Are you coming to Latvia on the 12th Jeth'?

take care

see you soon

anth the anth

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Date: Sat, Jan 22, 2000 at 17:46:41 (GMT)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: what is this cock crow thing?
Message:
As usual, you have an absolutely clear understanding of what is happening. I completely agree.

But I have never heard this 'cock crow' expression. Is it British I wonder? Would you explain it to me?

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Date: Sun, Jan 23, 2000 at 00:30:36 (GMT)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Susan
Subject: what is this cock crow thing?
Message:
Jesus told one of his disciples that they would deny him before the cock crowed three times (Peter?). Of course he did and became very distraught.

John.

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Date: Sat, Jan 22, 2000 at 19:10:32 (GMT)
From: Coach
Email: None
To: Susan
Subject: what is this cock crow thing?
Message:

Coach responded:
Jewish, I think.

Coach

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Date: Sun, Jan 23, 2000 at 02:02:54 (GMT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: Coach
Subject: what is this cock crow thing?
Message:
Dear Susan, Coach and JHB,
JHB is right and it was Peter. I can tell you, Susan and Coach are not recovering Catholics, like myself or Christians. Lucky! Sorry Bill. I guess I need a web site for x-Catholics more then for x-premies!
Coach, jewish, to funny they think of Jesus like a nice man! Kind of like M is today! It works for him.
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Sun, Jan 23, 2000 at 07:40:54 (GMT)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: Robyn
Subject: what is this cock crow thing?
Message:
Thanks to all. I am quite embarrassed at this gaping hole in my 'knowledge'. In all seriousness I attribute some of these gaping holes to my adolesence spent as a premie. I can sing the lines to Arti but am often mystified by biblical references which face it most educated people in our society use. Most of my biblical facts were things I heard premies or Rawat say in satsang. 'In the beginning was the Word' blah blah. Sad. I have a Bible Stories book for my toddler son we should learn together.
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Date: Sun, Jan 23, 2000 at 11:18:56 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Susan
Subject: Bible Stories.
Message:
Hi Susan,

Howya doin?

One of my great loves in life is children's literature, myths and fairy stories. Being a schoolteacher and parent allowed me to continue indulging myself. Having discovered Joseph Cambell a few years ago, they all start to make sense in another kind of way.

How old is your toddler? I'll pass on some titles that worked with my children.

Oooooh, there's so much to come. In a few years you can start on Roald Dahl. Then there's CS Lewis, Tolkein, Ursula Le Guin, Susan Cooper, aaaah, years of paper bliss.

Anth the Mythed the Point

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Date: Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 05:26:49 (GMT)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Thanks Anth...
Message:
the Divine kids were truly lucky to have had you. Your own are luckier still.

I would love any suggestions you would provide. I have two teens as well as the toddler and they did read some of the authors you mentioned, but not all.

Have you seen the real Thomas the Tank Engine?

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Date: Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 01:49:49 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek™
Email: drek@oz.net
To: JHB
Subject: An interesting allegatition
Message:
Very interesting JHB!

Was Maharaji or Cainer somehow tipped off on the upcoming Express article and Cainer and the Divine Office Of Maharaji (DOOM) came up with Cainer trade to stop publication of the expose. Wow! Sure, we don't know and this is only wild speculation about the tawdry and already tainted British press. But, it sure could be a possibility.

For the Express to snag and bag Cainer certainly might mean an increase readership and ad revenues, which translates straight to an improved Bottom Line.

There is also the addtional revenue from the Tele-Astrology opertation and whatever status is gained from having one of the nation's biggest Astrologer on staff. Hey, there's that forward thinking stuff that Cainer is good for too. The next Princess Diana tragedy could be prevented or capitalized on by having photo journalists staked out ahead of time for the exclusive photo-op.

What would be the cost of dropping a little expose story on a has-been guru? Zilch.

Cainer's making more money and he's happy. Maharaji stays out of the press and he's happy. Happy, happy, happy!

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Date: Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 21:44:21 (GMT)
From: oldie
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Gem in Carols Pro M post
Message:
The below is meant as a general rave and is definitely to be critisised.

The forum knows all this-but I finally 'Got It'

If you were to take a post such as the one from Carol down lower-(Carol, this is not
personal, I am just using your post as an example).

'''If you have done or said something that you intend to be a lesson example to others, you will be happy with yourself.'''

Besides it bieng patronizing......

Ignore WHAT it says and squint your eyes and just 'listen' to the tone and the source within the writer of each paragraph, you find a very mutated inner life.

{This method of listening to premie-speak or Mabaraga is a kind like Personal Fibre-Optic Polygraph that detects intent. (This great idea is downloaded and reworked from the movie Face Off).
Patent Pending*{

It occurs to me that taking issue with What the premies say is only effective to a point. The problem is WHY they say it.

The need in them to say it is a parasitic drive. If they dont keep emmitting the drivel,they panic because they find that they have eaten themselvs up and they need to vicariously live off of new energy (in the form of other peoples attention) in order to
survive.

The fact that it is sugar-coated in the language of the Light and Darkness is clever marketing of a addictive brainwash and

The fact that they say it at all is a major invasion of my privacy. It is a violation of my right to not be subject to the pollution of their emmissions.

Its like when your friend becomes an Amway Lady- friendship and human relations fizzle because Amway can indoctrinate one to the fundamental persuasion that More is Good and not pursuing the More the Amway Way is bad and it is the Amway Ladys mission to save you.
They even go so far as to insinuate this by asking stupid lead questions like 'Could you use more money?' or 'Are you perfectly happy with your quality of life?' If you answer honestly to either one of these - theyve got a foothold as far as they are concerned. Next thing you know you are categorized as a prospect and will probably be a victim of their Market Training.
From that point on, it is not anything they say in particular that is so very wrong, but it is the motivation behind it all. and where they are trying to maneuver you.

I guess if feel that peoples relationship with god or whatever is their own business- but this perpetual need for self verification and gratification and is parasitic.

Phew
I am done now

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Date: Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 13:39:37 (GMT)
From: Scott T.
Email: freewheeling@bigfoot.com
To: oldie
Subject: Gem in Carols Pro M post
Message:
Oldie:

I nominate this post for a **Best** designtation. Very insightful. It's why CD's been hanging around for years, and why he never has anything to say.

--Scott

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Date: Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 22:13:40 (GMT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: oldie
Subject: Add to that.....
Message:
one more thing, Oldie...... they MUST repeat it often so they don't forget it! :-)

If they really 'knew it,' they would never have to repeat it! :-)

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Date: Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 20:28:20 (GMT)
From: Carol
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Banned from Recent Ex
Message:
I was banned from the Recent Ex site because,..... well I'll just post the resons and my responses here:

Subject: Re: Participate?
Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 16:58:06 -0800
From: Carol Bruce
To: Recent Exes Forum Administrato ,

Hello again:

me: You said you >don't understand your (my) big need to straddle the fence.<
You just don't seem to get it. I am not straddling any fence!

>If youwant to go back to M'rage then go. Not many people
will chase after you to argue, but if you post
pro-M'rage stuff you appear to seek argument,
regardless of your motive<

I am not going to or from anything except the labels! I am standing firmly on the ground of my own values,
which I have stated as clearly as I am able on the Forum V quite recently! To you it seems to be black /white,
either/or, us/them...You are upset you can't put me in a box. I don't fit in either a premie box or a
ex-premie box, because no box exists that is big enough to hold the universe! The colors I see are the spectrum
of the rainbow, and my motives are that I would like to see people respecting the right to have differences in
belief honoring diversity by trying a little to see from a different perspective and trying to find what is common
between them instead of hating and fighting or simmering in their own juices! People, one by one, can change
their attitudes and bridge the chasm between themselves and all other people. You are not being helpful to
anyone by encouraging division and anger and black/white thinking! You said to me:

>You've said you are in a manic swing (I think that's
how you put it, am I right?), so I hope you don't
regret what you do post.

Take care,
Recent Ex Forum administrator--- <

me:I don't know if I'm 'manic' or not, really! I just have had unusual amounts (for me) of energy and enthusiasm
for about the last month or so. I am sure I will have no regrets about things I posted. Some can see, somewhat,
the process I was going through, by the changes I expressed.
My own direction has become more clear each day. It is a direction based on values I've actually held for most
of my life! I once looked at myself in the mirror when I was nine years old and had the thoughts that I remember
well: No one else knows the answers, I have to find them for myself! I am honoring the child and spirit in me by
finding my own way to know the answers to life's questions. I can love anyone I choose to love!
The meaning you give to my saying that I still love M, and that I give him some credit for helping me find out
that I had it all inside of me all of the time, is simply your judgment of my experience and your confusion about
my motivations. Your conclusions are boxes you try to put me in, and are simply a result of your particular
screens and filters that you have erected to protect yourself from pain and you have dug your feet in behind
your protective barriers! I wish you freedom from fear and pain, however you can get it! Hope you find peace! carol


Earlier [post]:
Carol Bruce wrote:
> Actually the only reason I'm at any of the forums
> is to support the
> people to become more healthy, whether or not they
> have renounced
> everything about m as bad or said they still
> appreciate some of his
> teachings, or love him! That is kind of prejudicial
> in my opinion...are
> you saying 'You have to renounce everything about K
> and M and your
> entire experience as a premie and call it 'bad' in
> order to recover from
> the negative feelings and anger and fears you still
> have.'??? That is
> not the way to recovery!

me, later: OOPS! Sorry! There I went telling people what I think the right or wrong way to recover is!!!Sorry I didn't catch that before I sent it!!!Do what ever you need to do to recover as long as you are not breaking the laws and cause yourself more trouble, unless you are prepared to accept the natural consequences! I just want to offer you my personal story in case it might help someone...you never know what might help!
> It's up to the group, or you, I guess, folks can
> always e-mail me if
> they want! I also still have the Forum, regardless
> of your opinion that
> I shouldn't post there! There is always AG, too!
> Respectfully,
> Carol

Recent Exes Forum Administrato wrote:
>
>>Dear Carol,
I have sent out new passwords and chosen at this time
not to send you one. It is not a permanent decision and it will be discussed more, but you seem to be more a follower of M than someone taking an exit from his path.The forum exists to help people with problems they experience in exiting the cult. That doesn't mean I am totally closed to you and I appreciate the value of some of your points but I don't think you should be allowed to have it both ways.<<

me: (Black/white, us/them, dualistic thinking!!! I reject it, we are all connected and need to hold hands and help
each other cross the street and avoid other dangerous conditions, like wars over beliefs!!! )

>>Recentexes requires a commitment to exiting to participate
constructively. Otherwise it becomes some other kind of forum. There is a need for a friendlier discussion between premies and ex-premies. M with all his millions does not provide these kinds of services. My hours are stretched by special situations like yours, requiring more than a few hours to deal with on top of a
regular time-consuming commitment. The forum is limited in
scope not because that is the perfect solution but because of limited resources (i.e. time, money). I would support a more open-ended forum, but not instead of this one. I'm not interested in trying to turn it into something it isn't or straddle our purpose with another. Your status is open to change and will be
discussed. For now I will share this with _____________ I will mention you on the forum but unless interest warrants I will not encourage it as a major topic. If people feel that you should be online with us, you will be, but I personally feel that you are more interested in being with M in the spiritual sense then in exiting the cult (or whatever you want to call M's group) and supporting those who exit.
Yours,
Forum Administrator<<

me:I am posting this to the Forum so others don't get confused by the purpose and prerequisites to enter the Recent exForum, and of course to have a chance once more to state my position!
Bye bye, Carol

A new quote I added:

Spiritual courage grows through our willingness to keep on remembering,
to keep on searching for the sacred behind all the seemingly mundane
and even terrible facets of life.

Joan Borysenko, Ph.D., Fire In The Soul

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Date: Mon, Jan 24, 2000 at 15:00:57 (GMT)
From: Scott T.
Email: freewheeling@bigfoot.com
To: Carol
Subject: Banned from Recent Ex
Message:
Carol:

The whole strategy of the con game, and hence the name, is to give you confidence. Works, doesn't it?

--Scott

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Date: Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 23:20:23 (GMT)
From: Anon
Email: None
To: Carol
Subject: Banned from Recent Ex
Message:
The forum has always attracted a diverse bunch of premies and now it seems to be Carol's turn, (she who insists on not being labelled as either ex or prem) to cause some irritation with her unusual mix of Maharaji appreciation and acknowledgement of his faults.

Kerd wrote:
Sounds like Carol doesn't want to play the game or she really is playing another game altogether and I'd say, speaking the collective, that we've seen enough games being played.

Carol appears to me as someone who is basically a genuinely motivated person and who, rather than playing subversive games here, is just being the current version of herself. She confesses to being in a transitional phase. Even if she is sounds irritatingly naive or newagey in her delivery, I find that the content of her posts is actually quite good. I can't help feeling that there has been a bit of an overreaction to her enthusiastic exuberance. Also I am sure there must be plenty of premies who can relate to her way of seeing things and for whom her posts alone may be palatable. She is undeniably critical of Maharaji despite her continuing 'love' for him. (which I suspect is partly a reflection of her newagey love of everyone.)

Carol wrote:
There is only one presence and one power in the universe(remember the definition: universe = one word). In examining our differences, try to discover the wonder of the miracle of life expressing itself! The state of unhappiness is often just a matter of feeling grateful for all you have and all you can be and do with all of your individual resources.

What she says sounds premie-ish which clearly puts peoples backs up here but she actually never directly advocates maharaji or any particular 'ism'. Although she is a bit prone to her own brand of sermonising, my guess is that Carol thinks aloud and that her problem here is partially one of delivery. She could possibly have expressed herself a little more quietly- Visa Vi:

I suspect that there may well be some omnipotent power behind creation. In examining our differences, i find myself trying to discover the wonder of life. I also feel there is a lot of truth in the old maxim 'count your blessings'

Carol says:
With all the love in my heart I ask you each (who choose to read this all the way through) to let it all go and move into a new state of mind in which you can again search for the meaning of your life. Find something to do that gives you *life* and go for it, whatever it is, only you can know and only you can make it happen. It is helpful to cultivate friendships with like-minded people who can be supportive to you. Drop the relationships that suck you dry or net you into negative thinking!

The more I try to analyse exactly what it is that is so abrasive about Carols posts to people, the more I get the feeling that it is her style, which (dare I say) strikes me as being, well.. a bit 'flighty'. That grates the critical ex-premie ear.

She writes:
If you want to receive supportive positive messages that a network of people (the silent majority of people who love people, rather than religions) are sending each other all over the world by e-mail, I'd be happy to put you on my e-mail list and forward to you whatever seems to me to be worthwhile 'good news' in the form of stories, quotes and jokes which are forwarded to me!

This could be something posted by a happily naive high school girl who proudly proclaims the launch of her Fluffy Bunny Appreciation 'email-list' service she is offering to the expectant world. I do, however, agree with her that there is indeed a growing number of people who tend more towards a humanistic or un-partisan view of the universe. (whether they constitute a silent majority or not I would not care to guess)

May the wind be always at your back or under you wings, may wolves run beside you, may porpoises swim beside you!

is asking for trouble here! Really Carol!

She says to me:
I am not a follower anymore, and I still find his heart to be as pure as mine....to be just like mine, behind the personality and the organization and the history and the mistakes that get made.

Carol is clearly projecting her own goodness onto M (which is a newagey habit)and she states her position, quite clearly, that she is no longer a follower.

There is something happening right here, right now in every moment. When you have eyes to see it and ears to hear it; it can take you right into another 'world' in which you can recognize that there are diamonds in the rust

Suggests vaguely that she still values the meditation. Not in itself at all objectionable to the so-called ex-prem, especially since she adds:

It has been many years since I felt like telling people to get Knowledge. I could not imagine sending them into the process, they way it was happening. I think he would do better to allow everyone who valued the meditation to give it out freely to the people they knew who were interested!

Hardly the sort of thing a premie would say since it runs absolutely contrary to M's wishes. This girl is a free thinker.

I wish all the religious and spiritual and political leaders would find a way to unite by accepting responsibility of each of them to promote common sense and loving behavior of all people!

This is a common childs dream and I don't mind if adults can continue to feel so hopeful.

I agree he should acknowledge them (his mistakes) to all his previous followers and current seekers.

Also very much reflecting the original spirit of this ex-premie site.

It doesn't matter whether you or I followed the right master or not! It only matters what you do with what you know.
Some of us, myself included, have been/are now being, re-formed in spirit by heat and pressure (by abuses and pain and all the 'bad' experiences!)into something that feels more clear and solid than ever before.

A lot of what she says seems to strive to make sense of, to integrate, the misgivings and bad experiences she has had with Knowledge. She feels that despite peoples experiences of abuses there may be for each individual a golden thread or some good to come of it . That's cool by me. Not particularly revelatory to me, but fine if that's what she feels.

Getting really mean and angry can create a thick armor, but what seems to work to protect you also stands as a shield preventing the flow of 'good' things into and out of your life!

A common difficulty that 'on the fence' premies have with this forum is the preponderance of angry reactors over more polite debators. Carol acknowledges the function of anger but warns against bcoming an isolated 'Mr Angry'. I personally know some pople who have taken their cynicism and anger (that clearly they have developed to protect themselves against time-wasters) to the point that people don't want to be around them, or work with them . Thus it rings true that anger is a two-edged sword. We may well warned.
I think Carol probably does realise that her manner is a little too satsangy for the taste of many -where the obvious is stated in reverential tones. Newagey. We are naturally sensitive about that.

Heaven and Hell and Peace are right here on earth, in our own lives. There is no judge but you about which state you are in now.

Sometimes she catches herself:

OOPS! Sorry! There I went telling people what I think the right or wrong way to recover is!!! Sorry I didn't catch that before I sent it!!! Do what ever you need to do to recover as long as you are not breaking the laws..

She has a redeeming virtue of being open to being being shot down down in flames and cross-examined within the tough environs of the forum, even apparently having welcomed the ordeal as being helpful:

I certainly got a lot of support from Jim Heller to throw out all of my beliefs of a spiritual nature!!! Some of you really helped me through that time by your humor and sincerity, but Jim's challenges were helpful to me, too.

I learned to find the water to quench my thirst and it is my own well.

Why do I tend to switch off when people mention Water and Thirst? Damn!

Join with the multitudes of a new silent majority (along with some of us outspoken ones) to help create a more loving and fair world.

Hey! I like the revolutionary zeal!

Regarding The question of where the forum lines are drawn

Kerd says:
Ultimately, however, IMO, the webmaster of that page gets to make the call.

I accept that completely. I generally think that Brian is doing a very good job. I mean, I couldn't do it, and he seems very commited to it.

He adds:
It would appear that there might be room on the forums for latitude, but in the White Pages and the Journeys there are requirements.

I also am loath to be labelled 'ex-premie' almost as much as 'premie'. This is because I got used to the idea that the word premie meant 'Lover of God' and not the 'Someone that is a devotee of Maharaji' meaning that came with time. Having struggled at length to become as neutral as possible and to shed any affiliation to any group, I was naturally rather touchy to suddenly have 'ex-premie' dangled around my neck. It was this touchiness that prevented me from being in the White pages and partly made me be 'Anon'

Obviously there are enough people who are so completely 'exited' from the thing that they can happily wear that badge. This then is undisputedly their domain.
I remember an earlier time, when this site was evolving, when there were 2 sections where people could submit essays. I can't exactly recall the title of the second heading but 'Journeys' was one. I blieve ot was the idea of Scott Perry. (I don't know what became of him..he was a really nice guy) . I got the impression that the distinction between the 2 sections was that in 'Journeys' you basically told your story and in the other you could wax a bit more philosophical about your personal beliefs. I wrote a long essay entitled 'Considerations' for this section. I think that when you publish your thoughts on 'Journeys' you do really have to be prepared to leave it there 'as is' , rather than to revise it later as your opinions evolve. It kind of represents a moment in time when your feelings are encapsulated forever. A bit like a diary really. Of course it would be unreasonable to expect a webmaster to keep amending your blessed journey ad infinitum. (I know this from experience of trying to get mine changed a bit)

This brings me to the subject of Carol's type of 'Journey', which clearly shows a person in a transitional stage who is reluctant to wholly ally herself with those more committed 'ex-premies' but is prepared to help affect some change within m's world by expressing her misgivings about M here, where at least they will be heard. The fact that she is not prepared to renounce Maharaji wholesale seems to me to be perfectly acceptible. Moreover I think we can assume that most people are adult enough to discern where she is coming from, and not to be thrown into confusion because she is not as bitter as the majority of other exes.

Carol wrote:
I am sure I will have no regrets about things I posted. Some can see, somewhat, the process I was going through, by the changes I expressed.

Later:
I was banned from the Recent Ex site because,..... well I'll just post the resons and my responses here:

Bruce replies:
You are posting this to the forum so that you can take a public (yet saintly) shot at the Administrator who dared to refuse to put your needs to live on the rainbow ahead of the needs of the people who use that forum for it's intended purpose.

Maybe, but I wonder if she is more appealing for some support than taking a shot.

Bruce wrote:
It is clearly stated on the page containing the form that only 'ex-premies' will be included in the list, right? What year is 'Not'? You know, the form field labled 'Was Premie Until'? The one clearly 'labelled' Required? You entered 'Not'. Well, I guess I'll just have to throw the whole listing open to whoever has 'Not' stopped believing in Maharaji.

Even if you did, I don't suppose any self-respecting premie would be seen dead anywhere on the ex-premie site..White Pages, Pink Pages or Polka Dot for that matter. There are only going to be dissenters posting here I reckon. You could of course change the name of the 'Recent Exes' forum to 'Discontented Premies Forum' or the 'Aspirant Exes Forum' (only joking!}

If you want to go back to M'rage then go. Not many people will chase after you to argue, but if you post pro-M'rage stuff you appear to seek argument, regardless of your motive.

I confess I am not privy to the recent exes forum so I don't know what 'Maharaji-mongering' carol has committed there. But I have read what she wrote on this forum quite carefully, and I have to say that I find little to suggest that she will happily be going back to M and abandoning her misgivings. I also don't see any harm in seeking argument on this particyular forum. I do regret that Carol is so reserved in addressing these criticisms that she says acknowledges. I would prefer that she elaborate her feelings about this. She has certainly expressed that she is reluctant to take people to Knowledge etc and says she is no longer a follower. Why? It indeed is hardly appropriate if she just preaches about tolerance and moving on, when this forum is based on the hypothesis that certain obfuscated things need to be discussed and exposed first in order that this 'moving on' may be facilitated. I think most people recognise that Carol is, like most of us, a sincere and spirited person trying in her own way to make sense of life.

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Date: Mon, Jan 24, 2000 at 07:36:43 (GMT)
From: Scott T.
Email: freewheeling@bigfoot.com
To: Anon
Subject: Banned from Recent Ex
Message:
Anon:

If you're going to write a book, you need to see about getting an agent. Chapter headings would help too.

As for Carol, she is clearly taking an 'interpretivist' approach to this topic. The fallback is that she is an individual, a creative person, with (possibly) unique values and that she ought to be accepted on face value. Fair enough. If she seems sincere, and I know Carol slightly so there is little reason for me to think she is subversive, then all we can ask is that she bare as much of her interpretations as she can tolerate, and that she do her best to subject those beliefs to some sort of test. She holds certain things to be sacred, which doesn't necessarily mean that they are. But buying the standard arguments is not usually the best way to test the validity of one's sacred beliefs. It's more messy than that.

Personally, I can't see how she could possibly love Maharaji, unless it's like the imprinting mechanism that afflicts ducks and geese. But we are all destined to love some asshole or other. Comes with the territory.

How the heck are you?

--Scott

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Date: Mon, Jan 24, 2000 at 10:04:25 (GMT)
From: Anon
Email: None
To: Scott T.
Subject: Banned from Recent Ex
Message:
Good to hear from you again Scott. You seem to able to say in a few words what I would have stretched into a lengthy tome. Sorry about that. A lot of what I write is the way it comes off the top of my head and I am often guilty of tautology, inconciciveness etc. I am not about to pretend to be capable of any literary or scholarly contribution and, as you may appreciate, people are at least generous enough here to tolerate some waffle and amateurishness in ones presentation, spelling and grammar.

Personally, I can't see how she could possibly love Maharaji, unless it's like the imprinting mechanism that afflicts ducks and geese.

I think there may be a lot of truth in that! My father had some chinese geese eggs (in our farm days) which he hatched in the oven and who followed him everywhere everafter! Hilarious!

Anyway, I am finding it a little hard to get back into the swing of work after Christmas, New Year etc. but am otherwise fine. It would be good to meet up (again?) one day. I would like to reminisce about the Argyle Street days sometime-crazy times. Do you know if Argyle Street, N. Hollywood still exists? I went there a few years ago and it had changed so much since 1975 that I got lost.

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Date: Mon, Jan 24, 2000 at 13:36:35 (GMT)
From: Scott T.
Email: None
To: Anon
Subject: Banned from Recent Ex
Message:
Anon:

I have never been back to that area of Hollywood, though I did go back to Malibu in '98 and saw Larry and his wife and family. They're doing very well, and are very definitely in the 'Ex' camp. Good work on that Anandpur stuff. Hard to keep all those lineages straight.

--Scott

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Date: Sat, Jan 22, 2000 at 07:06:59 (GMT)
From: Runamok
Email: None
To: Anon
Subject: Discussion of Anon's post
Message:
Anon,
I don't always agree with you but I do always appreciate your tone. I think it would be nice if premies were treated better in general on this forum. Because we haven't shown the general inclination to tolerate each other much (ex to ex), treating premies better has been on a back burner at best. I do feel tolerant toward premies, short of them posting satsang on the forum.

Here are some of Carol's satsangs or satsangy stuff that I personally didn't enjoy:
'Blessings to all the ex premies.'

~Does this remind you of anyone?~

~Here's some more about a satellite event only a few days ago:
'Wow! I perceived him to be looking right at me and speaking right to me (even though I was sitting way over at the right side of the room! There was not a word he said that couldn't have come straight from my own heart. We really are all one, when we recognize who we are! It doesn't matter that I had stopped practicing Knowledge the way I thought I had to. It doesn't matter that I renounced him publicly. I had nothing to worry about.'

~Isn't this a premie experiencing in darshun to the 'T'?~

'I loved so many things he said. I love the direction what he is doing is moving....back to it being between you and you!No need, unless you want to have community people to varify or justify or judge you ; or for you to pass judgment on! There is no room left in me for of of that kind of thing from or about any other person.'

~What is there about this that isn't just a premie to you or the exes who post on this forum? I'm not passing judgement, but I would be confused to see a woman in the men's room or a felon in a policeman's uniform (or vice-versa, it's not a value thing). Yes I can deal with it, but is there something about the role reversal/exchange that is so emminently desirable? I just don't see it.~

~More from Carol:
'I was in confusion for years about Who he was, and it seemed important to me.'

~Sounds ominous. Isn't that 'W' an excuse for an 'H' for 'He'? And isn't it stupid to be concerned with who 'He' is at all?~

~Okay so more from Carol:
'I did not agree with some of the things Maharaji and premies told me. I didn't practice the techniques as often, or the way I had been instructed. I had some guilt about it. Then I began to say to myself, I'm going to do what works for me. That's when I started communicating with people with my (somewhat) shared history and concepts at this ex-premie site.'

~Sounds OK. Or at least kinda, but do I smell something?~

'I never totally stopped loving Maharaji;'

~Still sounds OK, maybe. I can live with it. Maybe it's just honesty. I can try to live with it.~

Carol:
'but I stopped being obedient to what I thought were his directions'

~Now the direction has changed! She's stopped being obedient 'to what.. {she}.. thought were his directions'. Before she actually 'did not agree with some of the things Maharaji .. told.. her.' She's shifted and it's important. Now it's her concept of M'rage that was flawed. This is the classic stuff!
~Now she is freeing herself of her own concepts so that just like in the good old days M'rage will be there for her.

Carol:
'That is why I defined myself as an ex!'

~i.e., to get closer to M'rage. Sounds like a bad reason to me.
So now, we dear ex-premies can have the satsang that we have longed to have tho sepearated from He (I mean Who), courtesy of Carol:

'I loved it when Maharaji said today,via Sattelite, something like, (paraphrasing from my memory):
Some people think you have shovel darkness into a bucket so you can throw it out! All you have to do to get rid of darkness is to bring it into the light!'

~Are we finally including physics in our discussions about science? Doesn't look too hopeful there.~

~More:
'And another part...to paraphrase
Also, people have asked me about what I meant when I said 'Leave no room for doubt in your mind' It simply means, have clarity.
Having clarity is turning on the light onto all your thoughts and reevaluating all you have held sacred or true.'

~I don't see what there is about Carol that would make us want to insult ourselves by reading satsang. I respect Carol, as well as Shp or CD by and large as people. I think they deserve medical treatment and if they were starving I hope they would find food. I believe they can be loving to their friends. I think they say stupid things, but then so do exes.

~I agree with things premies say sometimes. Even Y'aqub said some things that were interesting. (Mostly not, but that's understood or was before this discussion.)~

~I do feel that as an ex, I have a right to some kind of shelter FROM M'ragey. I don't want to be subjected to him, and indeed want to see him pay for his fraud. But be that as it may, I do generally respect premies (who are not PAMs) as people, and see them as people. I also wish the forum was kinder to them, but as it has been, people are too incensed by satsang to post kindly until this.~

~That's good if this makes us more tolerant of premies overall
but the satsang is still pretty lame.

~I've read your posts, Anon, where you said (paraphrasing) that attacking M'rage too vehemently won't work for him but will drive him further into his megalomania. I think you feel more for M'rage personally than many of us. I do feel something for him personally. I feel some compassion, but it's very slight. I see too much devastation from his legacy, and for what? So that he could live materially on the backs of many. Seen many fall so that he could take all their places in society combined. So that his seat in the air could be as luxurious as thousands of first-class seats. What use is that?

Feeling negative towards this megalomaniac of a guru that we followed is good. Rarely and occasionally remember what it was like, what his discourse if like might be important. But to place it seriously for consideration in our forum, why?

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Date: Sun, Jan 23, 2000 at 17:04:04 (GMT)
From: Anon
Email: None
To: Runamok
Subject: Discussion of Anon's post
Message:
Hi Runamok,
Rather than respond to your response by going through each example you gave of Carol being too 'Satsangy' and attempting to find a different slant on her words (which I could do to some extent), I will attempt a shorter reply now if you don't mind, on this occasion. (It being Sunday, and time to take kids out for a walk)

Let me just say that I feel that Carol has been amply chastened now for expressing her remaining appreciation of M here. Personally, I have never found her habit of posting such material in the least bit offensive. I can't say the same about others who post here with the sole aim of disrupting things and being foul-mouthed. I beg to conject that Carol's intentions hardly amount to being so disruptive. Her actions appear to have somewhat innadvertently, as far as I can see, given cause for everybody to consider yet again what the ground rules are here. (and the guys who run the show some irritation at having to do so) That's not possibly such a bad thing IMO. (Webmaster(s), don't take offence- I do appreciate your efforts and indeed your limitations)

I've read your posts, Anon, where you said (paraphrasing) that attacking M'rage too vehemently won't work for him but will drive him further into his megalomania.

Did I say that??

Feeling negative towards this megalomaniac of a guru that we followed is good. Rarely and occasionally remember what it was like, what his discourse if like might be important. But to place it seriously for consideration in our forum, why?

Simply, because that is what we fell for and it is still a current issue for many. So it still is worth discussing for some. I would have thought that this was patently obvious. This forum should serve exactly that...to give serious consideration to Maharaji's discourse. If people choose to reiterate what good they derived from M, then why not? It makes for a balanced discussion?
Should the forum be a place where people just diss Maharaji without expressing any benefit they may still feel or have felt? In reality premies and ex-premies often have mixed feelings and it would be unfair and serve little purpose to discourage them from expressing themselves with honestlyand in their own manner. If someone persistently preaches here without conceding any criticisms then that may indeed constitute being disruptive. Carol doesn't seem to be doing that.

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Date: Sun, Jan 23, 2000 at 21:02:09 (GMT)
From: Runamok
Email: None
To: Anon
Subject: Discussion of Anon's post
Message:
I find satsang posted on the Forum generally offensive and the more so when meant as inspiration. Call me old-fashioned but it seems like the smell of alchohol on someone's breath at an AA meeting. Still, the public forum has its guidlines and I don't enforce them.

Carol's claims were not entirely accurate. The email she posted was my 5th in 2 days. I was concerned for her and was delaying actions on several fronts (in that period) in the hopes of keeping her in RE. If she had wanted to be in RE, she could have spent the energy she spent on her 'banned' post communicating further instead of creating a self-fulfilling prophecy. But enlightenment comes with its powers I suppose.

I reiterate, I personally wish there was a better meeting ground for exes and premies, but I don't see this happening when we exes show every sign of being embattled within our community. But latching onto Carol as a way to smear RE really is unfair
(not what you are doing but it's intrinsic to the thread). People want a flame-free exes forum. Gerry or you can stay in touch with Carol if you want to privately or on two other forums. I've spent hours communicating with her privately.

I am always glad to see you posting and I was a little surprised at this entry. Carol looks like a political football to me.

My paraphrase of your statement may have been too distant from your wording to ring a bell. The gist of what you said as I remember it, was that M would never be reached by people denouncing him. Harsh criticism will never actually get through to him. I consider him a villain but I think you feel something for him personally (and perhaps from having known him more). I argued with you on this when you posted it. I disagreed (and disagree- he won't be 'reached' anyway. If he can be stopped or derailed that's the most to hope for). The word megalomaniac probably isn't one you would use, but in M's case I consider it a compliment.

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Date: Sun, Jan 23, 2000 at 22:48:33 (GMT)
From: Anon
Email: None
To: Runamok
Subject: Discussion of Anon's post
Message:
Message received. It may be a little late to say but I didn't originally intend to get too embroiled with this Carol thread as I could see it was becoming a bit of a political football, as you said. Also I haven't visited 'RE'so I am not fully informed on the matter.
I chuckled aloud at you saying ' If she had wanted to be in RE....' etc because RE is the exact abbreviation used commonly here in schools for 'Religious Education' classes. I don't know whether it's the same in the US and that you are using that abbreviation with humour, but it sounded really funny to read in this context!

BTW I did use the word 'megalomaniac' very frequently when posting here about a year or two ago. You should read some of my posts on Forum One. I was much more fired up with anti-maharaji zeal then. (And actually I think Megalomaniac is still an apt word.) My tone has probably mellowed over the years. I think that it is a positive result of this forum that I have become less angry than I was about my involvement with M since writing here. I kind of got it out my sytem a bit I think. I still have the same criticisms about the way things were/are run in M-World, in fact they are more refined now. Any increased clarity on my part is, as far as I'm concerned a good result of my time spent, here and elsewhere, talking to others, thinking about it, meditating occasionally, researching the Indian roots thing, and generally trying to de-mystify the whole thing in my own mind without becoming totally cynical or bitter in the process.

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Date: Sun, Jan 23, 2000 at 23:32:26 (GMT)
From: Anon
Email: None
To: Runamok
Subject: Discussion of Anon's post
Message:
That's weird..I don't know what went wrong there ..I thought I added these thoughts to the above, but the message got posted prematurely I suppose..

Clearly I am not quite so bothered as some others about people bringing up touchy old stuff. The relevance of the analogy of Carols posts being like 'someone bringing a bottle to an Alcoholics Anonymous meeting' is not lost on me. However unthreatened I may feel by the temptation, it is obviously possibly painful or even disastrous for others to be exposed to object of their undoing during their Cold Turkey. A year or two ago I felt very strongly that it would be of certain detriment to my physical health if I went to a M programme. Such was my gut reaction. I did however attempt to engage people on the topic whenever I could even if they gave me 'Satsang'. It was useful to find the opportunity to challenge premies with my new-found perspective-to see if they had anything sensible to say. They didn't. Many agreed with me.

It occurs to me that whilst it may be some good to undergo total 'Cold Turkey'-avoidance of the influence for a while- a part of me seeks to confront the evils head-on and eradicate them from the universe if possible. Some Ex-Smokers are now uniting with the sole objective of toppling the Tobacco companies once and for all to rid the world of the evil, others quietly carry on their lives tolerating the continuing problem in society and just silently refraining from smoking themselves.
I seem to remember a friend who was a heroin addict saying that at therapy meetings it was common that people would still be on the stuff. It can take forever to kick the habit, and people do behave in every conceivable despicable and insensitive manner at such meetings. Just a thought that Carol's alcoholic breath, although unpleasant, may come with the territory! (sorry Carol, I'm sure you don't really have bad breath-just another analogy)

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Date: Mon, Jan 24, 2000 at 20:54:33 (GMT)
From: CQG
Email: None
To: Anon
Subject: Tobacco co. analogy - spot on!
Message:
Anon, you say:

'Some Ex-Smokers are now uniting with the sole objective of toppling the Tobacco companies once and for all to rid the world of the evil, others quietly carry on their lives tolerating the continuing problem in society and just silently refraining from smoking themselves.'

Boy, can I relate to that! (even though I still smoke.)

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Date: Sat, Jan 22, 2000 at 04:32:48 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Anon
Subject: Brilliant Anon, just brilliant
Message:
You're my new ideal!!! (Hope this doesn't ruin your reputation.)

Seriously, that was a very thoughtful and insightful analysis and I thank you for that.

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Date: Sat, Jan 22, 2000 at 09:20:18 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek™
Email: drek@oz.net
To: gerry
Subject: I can stand corrected
Message:
I think that Mr. D. said something interesting to Katie over on Anything Goes regarding the Martyr Syndrome and taking things (e.g.. criticism) too personally.

If for a moment we can not take these debates so personally and realize and understand that this is an ongoing and a very dynamic dialectic I think that we might see that all this stuff on the forum could be some of the richest intellectual communicative discourse that we will ever see in our lives.

And, premies, it's a beautiful, beautiful gift.

I'll have to admit that I only glanced at Anon's post and saw my name mentioned and also saw that the content looked pretty damn good. I'll read for complete comprehension in the morning with a cup of coffee.

I'm not sure about Carol and I'm open and willing to examine the issue. I've said some initial things about Carol's content and might have used words like 'deluded'. I've read Gerry's posts and now skimmed Anon's. And I'm quite willing to reconsider everything and anything I said about Carol and what she has said.

The point is that these discussions as heated as they get are not bad, bad, bad things. Nor should they be upsetting. You may not agree with them and people may not agree with you, but a bad thing that doesn't make. However, still, I sincerely and adamantly believe that there should be no Forum Police or Forum Censors to step in and break up or steer the discussion or set guidelines other than the ones that already exist. And I also believe it is wrong for people to paint such discussions as not serving the purposes of the forums or being inappropriate or having such discussions being labeled as attacks and hurtful and all that crap. Although, I think that some posts are nothing more than verbal attacks and I think that I can say that because I've been on the receiving end and maybe even a few times delivered one. However, I would contend that at least I try to discuss real issues in my posts and am attempting to have a dialogue.

Goddamn fucking grow up and stop whining and stop acting like babies. Just stay out of this shit if you're going to get hurt and then blame others for being hurtful.

And I'm not really aiming that at Katie, but if it fits then...

Katie is a damn good person. And I really do not think that there is anyone here, past or present that would argue with that. Regardless of the battles she and I have had I respect her and do not wish her pain. I understand her abusive background and maybe that explains a lot. Nor do I seek or wish Katie not to have a home on the forums. I kinda know what that feels like where everyone is pissed at me and I say I'm leaving. No, I don't wish that on anyone including some of the more notorious of those who have trespassed against me. In fact, I believe that I am on speaking terms with all such parties. I understand. I am forgiving. I hold nothing against them. I am human. I am erring.

Again, I think that Mr. D. on the other forum had great insight into Katie's situation where she takes it all too personally because of her conditioning.

To reiterate, Katie is a good person and we would be lacking without her.

Basically, I'm sick of the cheap shots where people keep saying the same stupid stuff like you're the fuck off king or the attacker, raper and pillager of women and children and orphans. And then they want to take it outside and get physical. Hellooo? Where and what is the content of your message? Hellooo, this is a one sided discussion where you say the same thing again and again and again and you want to take it outside. I think you're missing the point of what a discussion is.

Don't agree with me, fine. Want to fight, not fine. Most definitely wrong and very unacceptable anywhere. Bring some real content to your side of the discussion or just shut the fuck up.

Grow the fuck up. There is no peace lovey-dovey world unless the police is on every corner and in every living room and every bedroom of this land. Ain't reality. Is a dreamworld only. I wish it wasn't so, but that's what it is. Or I guess we can all go back to Maharaji's promise of Shangri-La.

I think the labeling of these discussions as bad flaming hurtful things is small minded. And the repeated chronic categorization of types of posts, discussions, and even posters themselves is a sign of the small mind.

Certainly, at times I have a small mind. I don't give many things a chance (sounds like Maharaji and his Knowledge) and I jump to my conclusions. Yeah, I've been burned before. Still, I'm hanging out and I'm reading and I'm willing to change my mind on things. I'm willing to admit that I'm wrong.

Really, I think that we might look at all of this stuff that some here label as so disgusting and awful as a rare opportunity to really discuss and think about a lot of issues that go beyond the scope of Maharaji. For example, internal issues like the Carol issue. Hell, you might even want to think or imagine that we are in a late 20th century (no, we are not yet in the 21st century - correct me if I'm technically wrong) sitting around a cyber Algonquin Round Table or a saloon in Key West with Ernest.

There's a lot going on here people. Don't miss this opportunity because of a label. Call bullshit when you see it. Get angry. Say what you're feeling. Say what you believe. Stand corrected.

This is great stuff. I suspect that when we are old geezers and weasels sitting around the nursing home we will mournfully wish that there was someone around to have a spirited discussion instead of being treated to another rerun of Star Wars Episode 43. Fuck that! Make your own entertainment. Better still take part in your own entertainment. Don't just sit there and be spoon fed and exchange pleasantries and recipes and talk about the weather. Fuck that shit! And, you know, I'll even bet that one day you might even look back at the horrors of the forum and call it the good old days.

Sure, I'll blab about the weather or trade a recipe, but I'm here for the Maharaji stuff and the intellectual stimulation. And it ain't lacking cause it's not here. If nobody reads my shit then fine. I don't care. I'm doing this for my own enjoyment. Yeah, sure, I'm a selfish S.O.B. and I don't share well nor do I play well with others. It's all there on my permanent record and you can read that at the F.B.I.

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Date: Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 18:56:58 (GMT)
From: Christopher
Email: None
To: Carol
Subject: Perhaps that's what you want?
Message:
Carol,

The following is from your post of Jan 10th:

'ATTENTION ALL:
If this kind of communicating is not on task for this Forum, then let me know...because I don't need to be here ...'

And now you play the victim???

Nuff said.

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Date: Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 17:44:36 (GMT)
From: You are
Email: None
To: Carol
Subject: an intersting case Carol
Message:
As suspected for a long time, the 'caring and concern' expressed by ex-premies here to people like yourself who are struggling with their doubts, is pretty fake. Just as long as you agree with the general negativity about Maharaji espoused by these embittered people, you are much loved and cared for here. But as soon as your journey of self-discovery leads to any support of Maharaji, they turn against you.

As for the conditions placed upon the support given by the x-group, they are clearly very limited. As they have with you, they turn away from you as soon as you do not meet these conditions. This way of thinking does not promote unconditional love, real tolerance, and a truly deeper understanding. In this respect many of the x's are no different than the majority of religions, sects, political parties, ethnic movements, or cliques that hold sway over the world today. They share the same destiny with the rest of the world never to resolve their struggle.

But hey, that seems to be just fine for most of the x's, at least for the vocal ones. I can just hear their thought process: 'If the majority of the world doesn't strive for such high ideals it must be okay for me not to, right? And these weirdoes who still believe in these high-fallutin' ideals are in the minority, right? So I must be right, right?'

You are an interesting case Carol because you publicly faced your doubts and appeared to join the ranks of the exes. You however kept an open mind about Maharaji and the feelings you have experienced over the years, and you tried to balance these feelings out against your doubts. The result seems to be a better understanding of yourself, and an appreciation for Knowledge that is more real. In my opinion you are a model of rational thinking because you strove to reconcile the differing messages you were hearing from your head and your heart, and have grown your understanding and tolerance, and become a stronger person in the process. Kudos to you!

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Date: Mon, Jan 24, 2000 at 13:49:16 (GMT)
From: Scott T.
Email: None
To: You are
Subject: an intersting case Carol
Message:
UR:

I'm sure Carol is immensely gratified by your anonymous support. I wonder if there would even be a discussion, were she to express similar independence on the premie 'forum' such as it is. And just who abandoned who, when it came to the Ashrams, huh? Your disingenuousness is showing.

--Scott

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Date: Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 22:38:19 (GMT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: You are
Subject: an intersting case Carol
Message:
I think the reason there is no support her for finding caring for M is because it is with him that the abuses originated or were perpetuated to support him or swept under the carpet by him. Many exes never had an experience with the meditation but many did and some, myself included, still use it. I believe the meditation itself is harmless, you benifit from it or you don't. It is the cult of personality as embodied in M that has been the cause of hurt, excess, lies and extreem sacrifice by premies to the detrement of themselves and the people in their immediate lives, by ignoring physical and emotional needs of those people, that have been hurt because of M's position.
I don't care if an ex doesn't hate M but I must say, and I have communicated this sentiment to Carol privately, it is very hard for me to see someone who has broken free of cult thinking to have decided that M has any value or deserves any love and devotion. She knows what she will be met with her when speaking these views and maybe somewhere inside that Is why she voiced them here.
Robyn
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Date: Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 19:44:24 (GMT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: You are
Subject: an intersting case Carol
Message:
However 'you are,' you are totally mistaken in your assessment.... Now there's a surprise....

I can't speak for every person here, but 'I' haven't 'turned against' Carol. It's called 'tough love,' my friend and every person that has a clear head understands this. We all know that Carol is a good person, but she is becoming embroiled in the M-delusion again. Willing to forgive him for mistakes he doesn't even acknowledge, like aiding and abetting a fugutive and attempts to hide jagdeo's misdeeds.

If we just let her slide back into this nonsense without saying a word, THEN we have truely turned against her! But, of course you can't 'see' that because you have your fingers stuck in your eyeballs!

Get off your holier-than-thou soapbox.....

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Date: Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 20:34:34 (GMT)
From: Quite arrogant
Email: None
To: Mike
Subject: of you Mike
Message:
Doling out acceptance and rejection in an attempt to manipulate a person. Thinking you know what's right and wrong for somebody else. Yes, quite arrogant. Tell you what, I'll get off my holier-than-thou soapbox if you could get off your smarter-than-thou soapbox...
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Date: Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 22:14:19 (GMT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Quite arrogant
Subject: Nope....
Message:
QA: I'm not doling-out anything. I haven't 'rejected' Carol or any other premie. I 'reject' their belief that M is something special. I 'reject' their cult. I reject M! I DO NOT reject the people that call themselves premies. If I had rejected them, I wouldn't talk to them at all!

I've got alot of friends that are/were premies and I care for them a great deal. Carol happens to be someone that I know personally..... Unlike you, I've actually met her and lived in the same premie-house for a period of time. By the way, I know quite a few of the ex's here from earlier association. Again, how about you?

No, my friend, YOU are the arrogant one thinking that you've pegged me and you missed the mark entirely! I don't reject anyone.... not even YOU!

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Date: Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 23:04:52 (GMT)
From: Uh, sorry Mr. Mike
Email: None
To: Mike
Subject: but...
Message:
your arrogance in thinking you are in a position to administer 'tough-love' to Carol is what I was refering to. It doesn't matter whether you know a person or not, or who knows more x-premies than whom. It's still a very arrogant attitude that you are in no position to assume.
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Date: Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 23:28:52 (GMT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Uh, sorry Mr. Mike
Subject: Your forgiven
Message:
Uh: You seem to think it takes some special dispensation to tell the truth to someone...... Well, maybe in Mahaha's world, but not HERE on this planet! Once again, you missed the mark!
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Date: Sat, Jan 22, 2000 at 01:25:04 (GMT)
From: Truth is
Email: None
To: Mike
Subject: a relative thing
Message:
It could be your aunt, it could be your cousin, it could be your...uh, er, I mean...hey you know what I mean.

Once again Mike you are demonstrating a fair hunk of arrogance to think you know the truth over somebody else and lording it over them. In the arena of public discussion it is proper to propose a differing point of view but not take away their face by lording it over them. That way, you won't come off looking arrognant. Just a proposal.....

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Date: Mon, Jan 24, 2000 at 14:15:04 (GMT)
From: Mickey Moss
Email: ickymickey@home.com
To: Truth is
Subject: a relative thing
Message:

Mickey Moss responded:
Yeah Mike, what's up with you? There is only one Truth and all other truth is relative. That one truth is Maharaji and the lord of the universe. No wait, he's just a meditation teacher so there isn't even one truth, is there? So it doesn't matter what I say, or you say, because anything goes. I could stick my head in a 400 degree oven and it's my choice. How arrogant of you to suggest I shouldn't do it. I know that it would help me think, and gain clarity. Are you against my thinking, for some reason? Are you against my becoming clear, for once?

I also like to dive headfirst from my second story window onto the pavement. You poor sod, stuck within those obsolete laws of physics. You'll never know what life is about. I want to be free... FREE I TELL YOU! I don't even need a helmet, and I don't bother to take my vitamins either. I drink coffee that's 212 degrees because it has a bite. What a namby pamby colorless life you must lead, Mike, with all of your TRUTH! I spit on the Hells Angels. Cowards and sissy boys. They don't frighten me. My car burning in the driveway doesn't frighten me, and being clubbed senseless doesn't scare me either. What are aspirin for, for heaven sake?

But... would you mind being an organ donor? Apparently these narrow minded doctors think I can't function without a liver. Minor damage suffered in the beating I took nobly defending the truth of untruth... or the lack of truth... or whatever. I forget. OH MY GOD, WHAT'S THAT IN THE MIRROR! Geez, scared myself a little there. Sorry.

Mickey
'of moss and men'

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Date: Mon, Jan 24, 2000 at 22:57:54 (GMT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Mickey Moss
Subject: Thanks, Mickey
Message:
I needed that..... he he he :-)
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Date: Sat, Jan 22, 2000 at 02:13:49 (GMT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Truth is
Subject: not relative
Message:
So tell me, how is it that I'm.... ahem... lording it over Carol? Let's not forget the original discussion, lest we be accused of having the attention span of a knat.

The original discussion is: You stated that 'we' had 'turned' on Carol. THAT is patently untrue and you know it. How do I know that you knew it? You made it personal and tried to change the subject, that's how.

Let's get this straight: We (or should I say I, since I can only speak for myself) didn't turn on 'Carol,' I turned on Carol's belief in M. Time and again M has proven himself to be false. He has proven himself to be an aider and abettor of criminals (fakiranand and jagdeo), either thru inaction or thru direct action (spiriting someone away from prosecution). Time and again he has proven himself to be a liar (lord of the universe, guru is greater than god, I will show you god, etc). Time and again he has proven to be obsessed with 'material' pleasures; in obscenely lavish style and at the expense of premie-slaves. He is a THIEF: of hearts, minds, ideals, morals and anything else he can get his craven paws on. In short, he's an asshole of the first order and it IS my business to let Carol and anyone else know this simple fact.

It's not a matter of 'lording' it over anyone, it's a matter of telling the T.R.U.T.H! Now, go ahead and prove any of the points I made above are untrue! You can't do it! But watch, when the story about jagdeo breaks in the british papers, I'll bet that M's response will be, '....but I didn't know about it, nobody told me.... yadda yadda yadda, crap crap crap!' Funny thing is, if push comes to shove, there are people who can step forward and say, 'yes you did!' Quite a quandry, no?

Sorry, unlike the premie apologists, I don't forgive his inaction at the initial discovery of a damned CHILD MOLESTOR! Period, end of discussion! But, NO he hasn't even got the human decency to apologize for that! He's despicable! There, now that's the truth (it ain't relative, bubba!)

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Date: Sat, Jan 22, 2000 at 06:52:19 (GMT)
From: Stay cool & on topic
Email: None
To: Mike
Subject: Mike
Message:
You seem to look for any opportunity to get on a soapbox. Now perhaps you should try to pay attention to the topic at hand yourself, which was how quickly Carol got turfed from the good books of the x-premies when she tempered her rejection of Maharaji. Nothing all to do with the rant in your message. Anyway, I'm tired of talking to you. You can go now.
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Date: Sat, Jan 22, 2000 at 15:06:19 (GMT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Stay cool & on topic
Subject: You are a moron!
Message:
My post is exactly on-topic and only someone with their fingers stuck in their eyeballs couldn't see it. Dismiss yourself, you sanctimonious asshole! You sound alot like shp......
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Date: Mon, Jan 24, 2000 at 22:02:13 (GMT)
From: tsk, tsk...
Email: None
To: Mike
Subject: typical (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Mon, Jan 24, 2000 at 23:06:06 (GMT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: tsk, tsk...
Subject: You're dismissed(nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Sat, Jan 22, 2000 at 14:07:36 (GMT)
From: CQG
Email: None
To: Stay cool & on topic
Subject: Attention-seeking, are you?
Message:

CQG responded:
'Anyway, I'm tired of talking to you. You can go now.' !!!!

And you accused Mike of being arrogant!

What hypocrisy!!!

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Date: Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 20:55:37 (GMT)
From: CQG
Email: quartus@postmaster.co.uk
To: Quite arrogant
Subject: What?...and spoil all the fun?
Message:

CQG responded:
'Tell you what, I'll get off my holier-than-thou soapbox if you could get off your smarter-than-thou soapbox... '

... and spoil all the fun?

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Date: Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 19:41:55 (GMT)
From: Christopher
Email: None
To: You are
Subject: Even more interesting ...
Message:

Christopher responded:
Well, Mr 'you are' (UR? - not URL RU?)

Carol '...a model of rational thinking'?

Bwwaaaaaahahaaaahhaaaaahhaaaaaa ........ggghhhh ........ cough, ...splutter...!!!
(apologies to Mike for the derivated plagiarism).

You say that she 'appeared to join the ranks of the exes'.

Appearances ARE deceptive, aren't they?

You also say that the exes' '... way of thinking does not promote unconditional love, real tolerance, and a truly deeper understanding.'

Since when has unconditional love and tolerance been the hallmark of ex-premie.org? Or its claim?
And are you implying that a truly deeper understanding of any particular case (whether interesting or no) is somehow dependant upon tolerance and unconditional love?

Tell it to the judge.

You then say ... 'As for the conditions placed upon the support given by the x-group ...'

What conditions? What support?

You then have the nerve to talk of 'high ideals'! Like your Maha has high ideals!! Don't forget, he's still living on the proceeds of our handouts!

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Date: Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 10:58:28 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Carol
Subject: Carol, you're in your mind.
Message:
Hi Carol,

(only kidding, but a good headline gets the readers in).

I've tried to read your post two or three times, and what it seems to be is a bitch with the Administrator on the Recent-Exes forum.

What I wonder is, what has this to do with anything here. When people start arguing personally, and bitching with each other here, it creates a bad atmosphere. It's worse for the people who are doing the bitching, but it's not particularly pleasant for anyone else either.

It's a bit like hearing two neighbors cussing each other out on the street. Even if you stay indoors and don't go out, you can still hear it through the window.

If you do need to let off steam and have a go at someone, Sir Dave has kindly created an enviroment where this kind of thing is allowed to run its course (Anything Goes Forum).

Sometimes I wonder, 'Who the hell cares anyway?'

Who cares about the rich chubby guru and his few thousand brainwashed followers?

Who cares about those handful of ex guru worshipers who write crazy stuff to each other on the Internet?

Who cares if 3 or 4 of them go to a breakaway forum and one of them gets banned?

When it comes down to it Carol, even us handful of sad individuals who do care for a few minutes, will have forgotten about it by lunchtime.

Adios

Anth the Whatthefuckisthatthetimemustgetlunch.

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Date: Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 20:40:57 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: a true reality check AJW
Message:
Really. And I FEEL saner, better, when I do have that kind of outlook, to some degree anyway. Thanks.
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Date: Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 08:56:23 (GMT)
From: CD
Email: None
To: Carol
Subject: Banned from Recent Ex
Message:
Not sure why you are worrying about it.
It the people enjoy their problems and notoriety, leave them in peace.
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Date: Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 08:25:27 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Carol
Subject: But not from the whiners yet!
Message:
I'm a bit sarcastic this morning, just having my tea ....

Pardon me.

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Date: Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 08:39:57 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek™
Email: drek@oz.net
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Hey, I'm not done with you yet
Message:
Careful! I prefer to consider myself a winner and cannot understand why so many are so confused and use the word whiner.

Remember I still have more secret details about you and those space aliens. Perhaps, the Private Eye might be interested.

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Date: Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 04:56:58 (GMT)
From: Brian
Email: brian@tigerriver.com
To: Carol
Subject: Bullshit, Carol
Message:
I am posting this to the Forum so others don't get confused by the purpose and prerequisites to enter the Recent exForum, and of course to have a chance once more to state my position!

You are posting this to the forum so that you can take a public (yet saintly) shot at the Administrator who dared to refuse to put your needs to live on the rainbow ahead of the needs of the people who use that forum for it's intended purpose.

You claim to be beyond labels. Yet you want to be be member of the 'Recent-exes' forum??? You, who are beyond labels, no longer consider yourself an ex-premie, but you're willing to remain here and help 'save' people from narrow thinking? Gee, thanks.

There is probably no such thing as an 'ex-premie', I'll grant you that. But as far as the term describes the experience of walking away from a cult and the entire belief system that someone has built their life on, the 'label' applies. If a person views themself as an ex-premie, then they are.

But you say this meager term doesn't apply to you... So why have I had to ponder what to do with your recently submitted revised White Pages entry? You are aware that the White Pages are for those who are still trapped in label-land, right? It is clearly stated on the page containing the form that only 'ex-premies' will be included in the list, right?

What year is 'Not'? You know, the form field labled 'Was Premie Until'? The one clearly 'labelled' Required? You entered 'Not'. Well, I guess I'll just have to throw the whole listing open to whoever has 'Not' stopped believing in Maharaji. Either that or be accused of demanding some sort of thought purity, or of discriminating between the nots and the maybes in your world.

Should I just take the site down, Carol? After all, it's clearly judgemental regarding Maharaji. Hardly fair, right?

While you may have wandered on ahead of the rest of us into the land beyond labels, you seem to have left honestly and integrity behind.

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Date: Sat, Jan 22, 2000 at 06:50:23 (GMT)
From: Anus McPenis
Email: agoodlad@smilingeyes.com
To: Brian
Subject: Bullshit, Carol
Message:
So why have I had to ponder what to do with your recently submitted revised White Pages entry?

You should be able to handle the whole thing easily...

(An offensive section has been removed from this post by the duty Forum Administrator, rendering it meaningless.)

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Date: Sat, Jan 22, 2000 at 02:07:28 (GMT)
From: carol the current version
Email: None
To: Brian
Subject: Well,Fuck!!! Who am I anyway?
Message:
In all seriousness, 'Some things are too serious to take seriously!!!'

What I posted here about my response to the the Satellite of m was posted here out of respect for the Recent Ex Forum. I never posted 'pro M' stuff there. I asked the administrator to ask the other members there if they stil wanted me there, again out of respect! He misinterpretted my intentions and made sure I could not explain to their forum, by banning me from there. I put it here 20.5 hours after I told him I was going to do it, deleting his name to protect his anonnomity. He did not protest so I posted what was true.

I was an ex who did not like flaming, when I joined them. I shortly thereafter realized that I was not an ex or a premie, which would mean to most ex's that I was still a premie!!

I knew that my apparent change of allegiances would inspire the ire of many here. I can handle whatever you throw my way. I have been chuckling reading all these posts! Anon said things so well about how I appeared. I truely am a fool for love who threw away all my faith and all my beliefs for a long time before coming to claim what was rightfully mine in the first place, my own values and my own heart and my own right to believe whatever the FUCK I want!!! Does that make me seem more real to you??? I am only pretending to be angry writing or shouting 'FUCK'!

I don't feel anger at any of you. I was not being vindictive of recent Ex administrator when I posted our communication after he/she ignored me, or feeling like a victim when I was banned, I just did what I thought was right. That's how I want to live my life, choosing one thing at a time what the right thing to do is for myself and for the greater good! Call me naive or foolish or childish...but I embrace my hope and my belief in the possibility of a better world, and I am not alone in that by any means! And it is by many means (many various groups or individuals of faith) that the hope for the world's people and animals is being supported.

I went with the flow of my messages as I wrote them, not revising as I wrote my posts...just putting them out there as they were with the faith that it was going to be fine whatever the reactions I stirred up. Frankly I was amazed at the humor that I often felt when I was writing. I took on roles as they came to me. My voice was sometimes very confidently satsangy somewhat like( I thought) the wonderful and humorous posts I used to see from John Hammond Smith (is that name right?). I have changed! That is certain!

I will change again...that is also certain! I like my changes!
If you don't, it doesn't change it for me!!!

My biology teacher in the 1oth grade, Mr. Witty, said, and wrote on the board. 'The only thing constant is change itself!'
Thank GOD!!!!

Didn't you notice my add-ons to my identity? Don't box me or yourselves into anything. You are free! Blow your own horn!

from Carol
the crazed, the compassionate, the contrite, the caring, the curious, the courageous, the(not very cautious), the cured, THE CURRENT VERSION !!!! OK!!!?) (-;

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Date: Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 06:27:25 (GMT)
From: Scott T.
Email: freewheeling@bigfoot.com
To: carol the current version
Subject: Well, anyway?
Message:
Carol:

Re: 'I don't feel anger at any of you. I was not being vindictive of recent Ex administrator when I posted our communication after he/she ignored me, or feeling like a victim when I was banned, I just did what I thought was right.'

I am not mystified by your predicament. Are you becoming lukewarm? Neither do I think Maharaji has any mystique. It is not Maha and not the Ex rebellion, and not sanctimonious Catholicism, or fiery fundamentalism. It is not native american witchery, or extra-terrestrial wizardry, or Saturday Night Live, or the Super Bowl, or Christmas, or the 'social milleu,' or deconstructionsm. So, it must be something completely different, that no one has thunk before, that never occurred to anyone who was able to communicate to someone else... because if that were so then we'd know. We'd have science in the crosshairs. So, what have you considered that you've never uttered... and that for the sake of convenience you now associate with Maha? What is it that doesn't quite fit?

Personally, I think I accidentally kicked the power plug and blew a fuse... and here I am typing into a little white box surrounded by a pale yellow background, in a little white box... and hoping someone puts the plug back in pretty soon, and changes the fuse... before I remember to do it myself.

--Scott

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Date: Sat, Jan 22, 2000 at 19:23:49 (GMT)
From: Coach
Email: None
To: carol the current version
Subject: For Gawd's Sake
Message:
You'd talk a glass eye to sleep, honey. Anytime, anywhere.

Coach.

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Date: Sat, Jan 22, 2000 at 08:57:12 (GMT)
From: Runamok 2.1
Email: None
To: correct the description
Subject: Come see my 'banned'!
Message:
Yes Carol, I had assumed in all your discussion about posting our correspondences on 'the forum', you were referring to the RE forum. Childish of me perhaps, but we were speaking formally as administrator to participant or potential participant. Not the cosmic experience of being with Prem Pal perhaps, but I do try to take it seriously.

I absolutely have no idea when I was supposed to have ignored you as you claim. I do not say this vindictively to you either. I sent you 5 emails discussing the situation in 2 days.

Are you really going to say that is ignoring you?

I choose to call it a misunderstanding that you posted my email without permission. Que sera sera. What you don't see, is that you were in every position to appeal to RE but you chose to post that you were 'BANNED' on F5 instead of appealing the situation with us more, as would befit a disagreement among friends.

I delayed admitting new members 36 hours in the hopes that we would be keeping you in with them. They all waited longer almost 16 hours longer than you to be let in because I was waiting for you.

Your first response to my initial email to you took about 24 hours.

I know the fast-moving controversies of the forums call for late-breaking dialog, but your long 'wait' doesn't seem so unsufferable to me.

Banned is a little too permanent for what you were at the time that you posted it. 'Suspended' would be more accurate.

If people had wanted you, you would have been readmitted. The way you took your case elsewhere didn't seem very friendly to me, but that's your biz.

Your thing about boxes really gets me. We felt that we should keep you out of our box, not put you in one. It could have changed, but I don't think you really want it too.

Being banned is your self-fulfilling prophecy.

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Date: Sat, Jan 22, 2000 at 08:20:27 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek™
Email: drek@oz.net
To: carol the current version
Subject: Bravo, Carol
Message:
Corrected Subject Line: I sure don't know, but I will give you credit

Carol,

I'm a bit confused about where or what you are, but I'm not sure that such should matter. Well, at least for what I'll say now.

Bravo!

I, too, have been gone through hell on this forum and I've given my share of hell too. I know that I cannot ever that that I have not flamed or whatever (maybe said what I really felt) without being accused of being a flaming asshole by my detractors.

I understand somewhat the position you might be in as the center of a Forum controversy. Maybe you are faring well and it's no problem to you.

Regardless of whether I agree or disagree with you I certainly do appreciate your tenacity and your right to say what you want to say.

In my opinion, that's what it's all about.

Carry on, Carol.

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Date: Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 05:47:38 (GMT)
From: Kerd
Email: None
To: Brian
Subject: Wow!
Message:
Roger Drek should make that a best. Damn good and right to the point.

Interesting concept about those who would appear to be in a state of serious and undeniable Clintonian waffling. To accommodate or not to accommodate?

Has the Forum or the ex-premie.org ever had a case of recidivism or relapse?

Very interesting on how the dynamics of the forums are virtually always in a constant state of flux with the old people, the new people, the new-old people, the premies, and the trolls.

It would appear that there might be room on the forums for latitude, but in the White Pages and the Journeys there are requirements. No, not that I'm suggesting that there should not be a simple required field such as 'Was Premie Until'? I'm just trying to make sense of this. Theoretically it could be possible to let the whole scene get over run with energetic and enthusiastic premies demanding to have it their way. Ultimately, however, IMO, the webmaster of that page gets to make the call. Sounds like Carol doesn't want to play the game or she really is playing another game altogether and I'd say, speaking the collective, that we've seen enough games being played.

I'm sure it's too early to say that we've seen it all, but what else is there? Maybe Maharaji will post and confess and convert right in front of our eyes.

Very interesting, indeed.

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Date: Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 16:28:48 (GMT)
From: Especially since Mr. Kerd
Email: None
To: Kerd
Subject: and Drek are one and the same
Message:
nt
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Date: Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 17:03:36 (GMT)
From: Mr. Wayne Kerd
Email: None
To: Especially since Mr. Kerd
Subject: No! You do say. (NT)
Message:
adsf
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Date: Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 05:36:06 (GMT)
From: Powerman
Email: None
To: Brian
Subject: ***Roger***Best of (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 06:50:58 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek™
Email: drek@oz.net
To: Powerman
Subject: Say what, where? Huh? NT
Message:
you shouldn't be reading this

When I was a small baby my poor unwed mother put me in a small wicker basket and left me on the steps of the local church where a kind sister named Maria took me in. Maria had always wanted a baby of her own, but for obvious reasons never had one. She secreted me away in her dorm room for nearly thirteen years where she fed, clothed me and taught me to read. Sister Maria, however, intentionally neglected to teach me to speak for fear that I would blurt out and be discovered. Since I had only religious books to read I knew very little about the real world outside. In fact, my ignorance came to a shocking end one day when I was alone in the dorm room giving myself a sponge bath when...

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Date: Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 06:52:57 (GMT)
From: Powerman
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek™
Subject: Brian's response to Carol NT
Message:
nt
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Date: Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 07:20:08 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek™
Email: drek@oz.net
To: Powerman
Subject: Ok! You got it! ***Best***
Message:
Indeed, Brian's posts, rare as they are, are always great to-the-point zingers. Wish I didn't ramble around as much as I do and could say it like Brian. BAM! To the Point! And a hoot at that!

***Best***

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Date: Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 01:27:08 (GMT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: david@xyzx.freeserve.co.uk
To: Carol
Subject: I sympathise with you Carol
Message:
I agree that the black/white way of thinking is very narrow minded indeed. It is a form of prejudice akin to racial prejudice. We were all premies here. I would have cut my head off for Maharaji at one stage, quite happily and certainly I went to extremes and gave up everything for him, out of love, because I 'understood' that he was the Almighty in human form, an answer to my prayers.

I experienced great devotional love which was often all consuming. Now that was not a false thing. The only thing is, the God I felt all this love for wasn't Maharaji.

Perhaps that God which I've felt such all-consuming devotion for is really there and has taken note of my feeling. I certainly hope so and perhaps it won't be until after I die that the whole picture will be understood. One thing is certain - you can't mock love, no matter what form it takes.

I dislike the boxes and also the 'group think' which often pervades the internet ex-premie sites. I always was different to everyone else and went against the crowd. I have a good friend who is still a premie. I like him and the fact that he's into Maharaji is not an issue with me. I like him and he doesn't preach to me.

Some people here get very anti-premie when in reality they are anti the arrogant people who post here posing as premies. There's a world of difference between nice people who are into Maharaji and arrogant ego-trippers who think they know everything and want to tell you how to run your life and what you should be feeling.

I certainly don't dislike premies and I used to be one myself. I do dislike jumped-up arrogant people who are transparently ignorant of the true facts as some of us have experienced them. But that's just a peronality thing - it's got nothing to do with whether people are premies or not.

I wish you well, Carol.

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Date: Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 01:50:11 (GMT)
From: Gerry
Email: None
To: Carol
Subject: Carol, you got runamoked !!!
Message:
It's OK, though, it happens to the best of us. You can always come here and hang out with us crude louts.

We could even check out Drek's new cyber- theme park together if that would make you feel better.

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Date: Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 05:39:44 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek™
Email: drek@oz.net
To: Gerry
Subject: Ger, don't want to be the one
Message:
to tell you, but your application to DOGMA has been rejected.

You are unto yourself.

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Date: Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 00:42:07 (GMT)
From: JHB
Email: brauns@dircon.co.uk
To: Carol
Subject: Banned from Recent Ex
Message:
Carol.

An ex-premie is someone who no longer believes that Maharaji is a good teacher. Do you believe he's a good teacher?

John the ex-premie.

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Date: Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 21:59:56 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek™
Email: drek@oz.net
To: Carol
Subject: I offer hope - a new forum!
Message:
Carol,

I know how you feel. Regardless of our differences I'm offering this as a piece of satire that you may or may not fully understand, but you are not the brunt of this joke. Your post is simply an opportunity that I cannot pass by. Again, this is not really about you. Rather it is about the collective us on these forums.

However, you're in luck. I've decided to start a new forum and it will be called the Disenfranchised Outcasts Groucho Marxist Assembly to be know as:

Forum DOGMA MCV™

Requirements for Admission:

  • You refuse to join a club that will admit you
  • You've been at the center of at least one major controversy or two minor ones
  • You've have used any one of the following phrases in your posts:
    • Fuck You
    • Fuck Off
    • Fuck Yourself
    • Asshole!
    • and a number of Oz or UK phrases that are similar

  • You have been and will continue to be disrespectful to all
  • You have been and will continue to be disrespectful specifically to Forum Administrators and the like
  • At least 10% of the Forum participants believe you are an asshole or completely insane
  • You could care less about proper grammar and Mistress Grammar or Lord Gnome has been on your case

I've been unanimously elected to the Forum Administrator post and Dictator And Director of Agenders. I am looking for one or two good women to act as my assistants. I have steadfastly refused to attend any meetings that will attempt to establish guidelines and rules.

The rather insistent current membership (who's names will not be revealed) of this secret society is/are (whatever works) looking to me to provide and establish the theme and the tone of this groundbreaking paradigm shifting forum. To this day I have yet to post one iota of my wit and wisdom. Nor shall I ever. Fuck the masses, I say. Let them eat prashad!

Ok, Carol, I think that you might be accepted, but there is one requirement that you have not yet met. I am eagerly awaiting your response.

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Date: Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 10:07:39 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek™
Subject: I offer hope - a new forum!
Message:
Hi Roger,

I disagree with the basic principles of the new group, particularly point three. (by the way, we were saying 'fuck off' in the uk, about 500 years before Columbus sailed to Amerika)

However, I'm not just going to stand here and disagree. I'm taking direct action comrade. As soon as I've finished writing the software, I'm going to start a breakaway group, called the

Disenchanted Outcast Grouching Collective Realist Alliance Program.

The Groucho Marxist Assembly will soon be laughing on the other side of their reactionary paper tiger corrupt and spotty capitalist faces.

Comrade Anth.

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Date: Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 22:08:45 (GMT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek™
Subject: Where's Jim?????
Message:
BWAH HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA.....

I know what the missing requirement is, I know, I know, me me, pick me......

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Date: Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 09:04:14 (GMT)
From: x
Email: None
To: Mike
Subject: Where's Jim?????
Message:
>I know what the missing requirement is, I know, I know, me me, pick me......

Mayber if your name was Michelle.
Better luck next life!
Roger is very picky actually.

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Date: Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 22:15:29 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek™
Email: drek@oz.net
To: Mike
Subject: Sorry, Mike Dogma is for...
Message:
tuna that taste good, not tuna with good taste.

Jim, rest his soul, is up there kicking ass on the angels. I receive his wisdom through one of my higher chakras when I've embarked on an NDE with that new age drug they make for that purpose.

No, Mike, I know you know the answer, but it has to be from the heart and not parroted. Now if you were to sneak up on me at night wearing your ghilly then I will certainly reconsider.

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Date: Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 00:04:49 (GMT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek™
Subject: Nah, the suit's hung-up
Message:
for good, Roger. I'm into....ahhhhh let's say a slightly less stressful and more peaceful existence, now. :-)

Yeah, you're right, it wouldn't be heartfelt..... he he he. Darn it, you just haven't given me enuf guff, yet.... he he he!

You'd better watch them new-age brain lubricants..... can be nasty stuff ya know!

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Date: Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 21:25:42 (GMT)
From: Christopher
Email: None
To: Carol
Subject: oh dear ...
Message:

Carol, I may be wrong, but it seems to me that you have bought into some kind of so-called 'spiritual' trip that puts forward the belief that the enlightened see the rest of the world as enlightened. Hence your doe-eyed, 'everything is beautiful', delusional attempts at reconciling good and evil.

You do seem to be aware of the fact that everything in the Maha's garden isn't exactly rosy, but apparently you still want to try and paint it in rainbow colours.

It's not clever, it's certainly not spiritual, and, even with the best will in the world, this ain't the ideal platform to spout that kind of satsangy syrup anyway.

................. ........................ ........................

................. ........................ ........................

................. ........................ ........................

P.S. Perhaps your idea of going away until April 1st was a good one? Just to give yourself time to absorb some of the hits you've had to deal with lately.

BTW, this post might not sound particularly friendly, but it's not meant to be unfriendly either. At least it's honest.

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Date: Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 21:20:27 (GMT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Carol
Subject: Can you not accept the fact
Message:
Carol: Can't you accept the simple fact that for once in your life you were duped by a con-man? Is that so hard to accept? I say again, look at his obscenely lavish lifestyle, look at the fact that he's protected criminals (aiding and abetting a fugutive from justice), look at the fact that permitted, nay encouraged people to think he was god-incarnate and look at the fact that he's never even offered a clinton-style non-apology for his behavior. Jeez Carol, what does it take?

You read the bible and other books, what do they say about 'moderation?' Does M's lifestyle and behavior indicate any form of 'moderation?' I tell you, I firmly (and I do mean this) FIRMLY believe that M NEVER experienced ANYTHING from his own practice of K. His behavior speaks to this loud and clear! I would like for everyone to live in a nice home, to have a decent car to drive to work, to have decent food, to have a decent physical life..... My idea of moderation in these things is fairly nice, actually. But there is nothing in M's behavior that is moderate.... he must have the best house (mansion), the best car (make that dozens), the best watch (make that hundreds???), the best of everything or he throws his little temper tantrums (seen by many!). This doesn't sound like anyone that's 'realized' anything except how to fleece you and me. M doesn't deserve your respect and he certainly doesn't deserve your love. He wouldn't know what to do with it, even if he actually could feel it!

You can say that I put M in a box, if you wish, but it's a box that HE built with premie slave-labor!

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Date: Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 09:24:40 (GMT)
From: CD
Email: None
To: Mike
Subject: Oh yeah
Message:
>Can't you accept the simple fact that for once in your life you were duped by a con-man?

Simple fact. Huh?
Oh your are such the genius.
Give me and others a break.
Sure, you have all the answers now.
The world according to Mike.

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Date: Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 06:46:09 (GMT)
From: Scott T.
Email: None
To: CD
Subject: Oh yeah
Message:
Simple fact. Huh?

It really does not get more transcendentally simple. All the players nod to one another and go home with their cut. The mark has a choice to make. Will he acknowledge he's the loser, and play again from a stronger position; or will he deny he was a mark? Either way, they will be back. It's the best game it town.

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Date: Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 14:42:00 (GMT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: CD
Subject: Oh sure
Message:
Go ahead, CD, take a personal swipe..... that absolutely proves your point doesn't it? Just like everything else, you take quotes completely out of context and then make a personal or nonsense response. Why didn't you address the moderation issue, huh? Because it is the SUBSTANCE of this particular post, that's why! Show me, mr. super-premie, WHERE M is moderate in ANYTHING...... come on, you can do it (even if you have to make something up, you can do it)!

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Date: Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 19:52:46 (GMT)
From: michael
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: none so blind
Message:
To all you current premies and knowledge seekers. Why do you persist in following maharaji? Following and worshiping and loving him or any other guru just because he says he has shown you the most ancient of secrets is just too absurd. It might make sense if he were honest and open about who he is and what he wants.

Who is he (who do I think he is)? He is an emotionaly stunted, spoiled, self serving, power tripper who wants to be the center of attention. He is also an aider and abetter of criminal activities, if the posts and stories of child abuse and assault are true. I believe those stories are true. I was a premie in the seventies. I remember how we were told that it was all just a test of our devotion. Bull! It was a coverup and mind control.

Roger eDrek lets loose with a real blast in the thread on British journalism. Good job, Roger. I hope the Brits go after m. He uses people in the most cruel way just to perpetuate his own lifestyle and power trip.

In my thread 'it ain't the same' I describe going to a 'video event' to see if any of my old friends were there. After watching m spout off about how the world is bad and the mind is bad but he is the teacher so only knowledge is good I just had to laugh out loud at the absurdity of it all. His trip that is.

What is not absurd, what is wrong and cruel is the way he takes advantage of the broken hearted people who are sincerely searching for an answer. The people that I did see Tuesday didn't look anything like the people I first saw in '72. Back then the premies at least looked at peace, happy and dare I say it blissful? The people I saw Tuesday appeared to be in pain and confusion and a bit fearful. The premies that spoke on the video appeared spaced out and self delusional.

Based on what I see today, if I were looking for The Answer, you couldn't pay me to take knowledge. Hell, I'd rather follow Jimmy Swaggert. He may be a screwed up jesus dork but, at least he has passion! At least Swaggert had sense enough to 'fess up about porking a prostitute. Maharaji hasn't the courage to come clean about anything. Maybe there are some things would put him in a cell? Maybe he needs the love of Bubba.

Just how do you go from declaring yourself 'Lord of the Universe' to being just a teacher? Hm? Prempal? Got a truthful answer?

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Date: Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 09:11:20 (GMT)
From: CD
Email: None
To: michael
Subject: blindy my wart
Message:
>The people that I did see Tuesday didn't look anything like the people I first saw in '72. Back then the premies at least looked at peace, happy and dare I say it blissful? The people I saw Tuesday appeared to be in pain and confusion and a bit fearful. The premies that spoke on the video appeared spaced out and self delusional.

I first learned about M in 1972 and saw him give a talk in 1972 in India.
You sound confused to me.
I went to the video in my local area last Sunday and certainly did not see people in 'pain'. In fact my impression after the video was a sense that most of the attendees were quite enthusiastic and in a good mood.

CD

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Date: Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 06:59:47 (GMT)
From: Scott T.
Email: None
To: CD
Subject: blondely my fart
Message:
I went to the video in my local area last Sunday and certainly did not see people in 'pain'.

And somehow I had the expectation that you'd agree with Michael.

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Date: Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 23:19:46 (GMT)
From: mantis
Email: None
To: CD
Subject: blindy?
Message:
What does CD stand for? Crap Dogma? Con Dog? Crack Dealer? Nothing? OH! OH! Now I get it! It stands for Crazy Devotee!
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Date: Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 18:30:23 (GMT)
From: michael
Email: None
To: CD
Subject: blindy my wart
Message:
CD, I 'recieved knowledge' in India! I was, later on, in the WPC. I drove a shuttle bus at millenium for eighteen hours straight! I turned my paychecks over to the house fathers and mothers. We were a happy blissful lot! We were serving the Lord of the Universe. We were not at all shy about proclaiming that GOD IS HERE! Yes we shouted it out! And we loved every damn minute of it!

And who kept it going? Who constantly stirred the emotion of devotion? Who loved us loving him? Why, none other than GOD himself, no wait a minute, 'GURU IS GREATER THAN GOD because guru shows us the god!' What a load!

You say, 'You sound confused to me.' You claim to have been around since '72. Perhaps you can clear something up for all of us 'confused ex-premies'. Is Maharaji God Incarnate, Lord of Lords, King of Kings, Lord of the Universe or not?

Answer carefully, CD. Answer truthfully, CD. Tell us what you feel or know to be true. Don't tell me what I should feel or know or that ('member this one?) 'I'm in my mind'. Don't apologize for maharaji. Just tell us all, help us end our confusion, CD, is maharaji God or not? Does he show you God face to face or not? Has he brought peace on Earth? Does the lion now lie down with the lamb, as he promised?

Or, CD, is maharaji just what he is, a big fat con? The video I saw this last Tuesday was of hans jayanti '99. The Indian premies were still worshiping their satguru. While in the West there are no premies because there ain't no satguru, just a teacher. What a slippery little con artist he is.

Why do you defend him, CD? Why do you support him, CD? Why do you have to apologize for him, CD? Why? Because he is a slick con artist and you are afraid to face the real truth.

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Date: Sun, Jan 23, 2000 at 03:43:17 (GMT)
From: Shifting
Email: None
To: michael
Subject: Why is it that ...
Message:
Elan Vital tells the Aspirant Contacts (people 'helping the aspirants) to avoid giving certain videos to new people or aspirants? The India videos are some of those who new people are not suppose to watch. They can watch them later, when they are IN the bag, when people are already caught, believing the crap he preaches. Is all a big lie. Look what new people are asked to have: Gratitud toward the master. If Knowlegde is a gift you got to give thanks. Bull sh... Kiss his feet?

When my health is better I will disclose further details of maharaji's organization.

Is all done in the name of love? Yeah, sure... Delussion. All the people 'cushioning' him are his victims. Starting at the top. Do you know how afraid they are? Elan Vital/maharaji are very concerned! They said that they have the right to believe whatever they want, but then, why is it that they are involved in activities to recruite people to believe in the crap, activities to deceive the uneducated? It's wrong!

For premies can be good to come here remembering: you shouldn't judge what you cannot understand, and you see? He got you! Because he tells you that you cannot and should not use your brain. Next? LOBOTOMY.

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Date: Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 15:27:58 (GMT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: CD
Subject: blindy my wart
Message:
A grimaced 'smile' does not enthusiasm make, CD!

CD, since you made the point that you were around in 72, I'll ask you a simple and very direct question....

Question: Have you seen god face-to-face?

I direct your attention to the book, personally approved by M, called 'Who is Guru Maharaj Ji?' In the middle of the book is a series of questions and answers from an interview with M. In that interview he says that he will show you god face-to-face. So did he? Has he? He said he would when you received K, so did he? He didn't say, in the interview, that he would reveal peace..... He said he would show you god face-to-face.... PERIOD!

I would like to know if he showed ANYONE god face-to-face..... Anyone??????? If not, then his own words brand him as a fraud because he stated that only a true guru (satguru) could do this. So if he isn't a 'true' guru then he must be a 'false' guru. CD, there is no such thing as a 'maybe' bit in this computer; in this case it is either 0 or 1.

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Date: Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 20:55:14 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek™
Email: drek@oz.net
To: michael
Subject: I'm so easy ***Best***
Message:
michael,

I'm such a sucker for flattery and have made your post a ***Best***. Seriously, I really liked the directness and, in particular, your comments regarding covering up the Fakiranand incident and other incidents:

I was a premie in the seventies. I remember how we were told that it was all just a test of our devotion. Bull! It was a coverup and mind control.

We were so pulled in and so deeply brainwashed that we never gave it a second thought, did we?

I liked michael's description of attending a video event and there is a description of attending a Maharaji Video event by a supposedly neutral third party that I found at the Encyclopedia of Nonduality in their Satsang listings where there are question and answer dialogues of satsang of no particular brand.

Here's the link to Encyclopedia of Nonduality - Satsang with Everyone pages and a link to my excerpt of that dialogue in particular.

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Date: Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 23:17:18 (GMT)
From: michael
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek™
Subject: ***Best*** me? shucks
Message:
From the link to satsang sluts: 'For instance, I just attended another Maharaji video tonight, with about ten people attending. There was nothing wrong with what Maharaji said or the way
he said it, and everyone was very silent and attentive. '

Since maharaji has dropped the 'Guru is Greater Than God' line he may be sounding more like the other gurus and so-called sants (saints). I still do not buy the idea that you give your life to the guru. I prefer this: 'When the student is ready, the teacher disapears.'

Again from the link: 'But I still sense something amiss about this particular group, but I can't put it into words yet.'

The group refered to here is of course premies. The best descriptive word that comes to mind is furtive. Today's premies are acting so strange! But that's to be expected, I suppose. After all if you have been taking it up the karmic backside for 10-20 years or more, it must hurt to face the truth.

The truth is that you have been had. It is not your fault, dear premies. Maharaji used the oldest trick in the book - give em what they want! You want peace - he promises that. You want to know the secrets of your existance - he promises that. You want to see god - he promises that (at least he did back then). If you don't feel peaceful - its your fault. If you don't understand knowledge - it's your fault. If you can't see god - don't complain to maharaji!

We used to have DLM parades here in Portland. We marched up and down the street proclaiming that Satguru Maharaj Ji was GOD! We sang it and proclaimed it loud, long and clear. I remember marching in London, England singing and proclaiming the same things! Now, you poor premies have to sort of 'sneak it in'? Hide the fact that it ever happened? Whatever. But can you directly claim that maharaji is god? No? Why not? HE DID! Why can't you? Because he isn't god's gift to humanity. That's it QED.

No wonder people '...sense something amiss about this particular group...'

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Date: Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 01:35:16 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek™
Email: drek@oz.net
To: michael
Subject: It's ***worse*** than that!
Message:
michael,

I've just tacked your 'shucks' response to the original post in the ***Best*** collection.

This is an example of just what an excellent tool the Internet and chatrooms or forums are. Regardless of whether we agree with each other on every issue, it is the collective intelligence and the examples of individual experiences that help shed so much light on whatever topic. Sure, some information is unsubstantiated and is based on subjective experience, but the content is there and ready to be considered, accepted or rejected or just filed away.

No matter how ugly it might get on these forums, compared to what Maharaji presents and allows what we have here is light years ahead of his game.

Indeed, michael, you helped the Satsang Sluts be more definitive by coming up with the perfect description of the current premie-video experience - furtive.

Well done!

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Date: Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 00:09:12 (GMT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: michael
Subject: Damned straight!!!!
Message:
michael, your quote, 'When the student is ready, the teacher disapears.' IS THE BEST OF THE BEST!!!!!!!

You've earned my coveted: BWAH HA HA HA HA HA HA.... I loved it! :-)

How do you earn the coveted award? You have to make me spray coffee at least ten feet when you make me laugh..... at which point I have to spend the next hour cleaning up the keyboard, monitor, etc. :-)

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Date: Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 00:19:24 (GMT)
From: michael
Email: None
To: Mike
Subject: wish it were origional (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 14:58:49 (GMT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: michael
Subject: Here's another one....
Message:
'When the student is ready, the teacher is a fraud!'

Now there's a zen koan for ya! he he he!

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Date: Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 20:15:56 (GMT)
From: michael
Email: None
To: michael
Subject: as it was so it is
Message:
This is what maharaji said in '70:
'If you do not obey what Maharaj Ji says, what is the use of your living in this world?' Taken from the 'Peace Bomb' speech.

Premies and aspirants, do you believe it? Maharaji is the answer? If so, please, I have a bridge to sell you. Just go read the 'Peace Bomb' speech for yourselfs. See if you believe it. If you say that the speech posted on this site is not real or made up, I read it in 'And It Is Divine' back in '72. Hell, I used to sell the magazine! I sold at least 30 subscriptions door to door to non-premies!

If you are looking for truth, look into your own hearts. If you are looking for answers, look into the hearts of others. If you have problems, get help or therapy or whatever. Just get away from maharaji.

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Date: Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 12:17:56 (GMT)
From: Cathy
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: let me out of here!!!!!
Message:
i'm going to put this out there.....from five years of age i've been spiritually aware...i know about molecular restructuring, i astral travel and i know about the kundalini. too much information can be dangerous. what are they paying this guy to learn something a five year old can teach u!!!more to the point ...teach themselves!...this is a waste of time and good energy,...focus on the Truth...and if i never visit this sorry site again it won't be too soon( and thats 4 all u premies who r taking the forbidden peek!!!!)
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Date: Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 11:06:57 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Cathy
Subject: Greetings Soul Sister
Message:
Cathy,

Your words danced from the page straight to my heart. It was as though you were there in person, speaking to me. And when I heard you voice I knew that I had at last connected with my soulmate of this incarnation.

I think I may have glimpsed you between two dawns on the astral plane, but we were travelling in different directions. Now we have connected on a cyber plane.

You are right Cathy, too much information is dangerous. And as you know, true spriritual information carries with it a molecular vibration that only a pure soul can carry without it distorting the lower energy levels of that person's being.

Why, I was only discussing this topic with the Ancient Masters of Luu, the other day.

So Cathy, tell me, do you feel our cosmic cyber link too?

Antony the Astral.

(Ps, I didn't go to a 'Vicars and Tarts' party with you, dressed in drag, about 12 years ago did I?)

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Date: Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 13:06:15 (GMT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Greetings Soul Sister
Message:
Dear Anth,
'(Ps, I didn't go to a 'Vicars and Tarts' party with you, dressed in drag, about 12 years ago did I?) '
Now, that is the Anth I know and love who resides in my computer files! :)
Love,
Robyn the I-talian ice :) [the high today is 5 degrees F.]
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Date: Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 20:10:56 (GMT)
From: From
Email: None
To: Cathy
Subject: A Person Less High Than Cathy
Message:
Well Cathy, nice display of spiritual ego there, girl! Maybe when the rest of us reach your dizzying spiritual heights we can dish everyone with smug self-rightousness and split as well. Who was it said that anybody who THINKS they are SPIRITUAL most definiately are NOT? Oh, yeah, I think it was Jesus Christ. Think about it honey.

Regarding the number of premies taking 'peeks' at this site, I would guess it's 90% of premies who have access to a computer.

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Date: Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 15:25:30 (GMT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Cathy
Subject: BWAH HA HA HA HA HA
Message:
Cathy, you are too much! BWAH HA HA HA HA

Oh yeah, BYEEEEEEEE!

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Date: Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 11:16:32 (GMT)
From: Anon
Email: None
To: Carol
Subject: To Carol. re: judging M
Message:
I am reposting this re-edited response to some of your previous comments, since I think you may have missed it buried down below! Apologies if this is not 'new-thread-worthy' but as it took me a while to write and I'd quite like you to read it.

Carol wrote:

Did his mistakes or his abuses change the fact that he taught us an excellent way to meditate (and for some of us, a way to connect to the deepest love we'd ever known inside of us)? I don't think so.

Maybe not, but I think that the fact that he has not had the strength of character (moral integrity or whatever) to admit or apologise for his mistakes, or furthermore try to really help those who have been affected or confused, says something about his trustworthiness as a Master. I cannot help but see this reluctance, or inability of his to discuss past woes, as being a display of avoidance, which all the more suggests that he has feet of clay. Let's face it, he is still very arrogant and dismissive of people who complain. As I said lower down. If there was nothing to complain about there would be no complainers. I frankly suspect that his admonition to people to stop complaining is partially an attempt to keep any skeletons firmly in the cupboard!

What worries me slightly about your attitude (albeit very forgiving and kind) is that by continuing to give the benefit of the doubt to Maharaji (who although he would clearly like us to be impressed that he has 'moved on' and positively reformed, has not yet truthfully cleared up the mess he has left in his wake) one is potentially further bloating his self-confidence, which is already amply empowered by his many unquestioning followers. This could not only be bad for his character, but it could also be harmful to those who continue to put their trust in him (should he decide to repeat his mistakes)

Another thing is that although we may judge him generously by virtue of our personal experiences of Knowledge and trust him all the more because of the 'goodness' of our experiences, I strongly feel that this is naive reasoning, since our association of our inner experiences with him is so emphatically suggested to us by the external 'packaging'. (more on this another time I think)

I still fail to see why the Knowledge has to be only available from him. The imparting of Knowledge and the secrecy, and much of the other stuff, suggests to me that this monopoly of his, is more a thing of his own design than of Holt Writ!

Who really knows after all?

Maybe in future the knowledge could be broadly known and taught. Since I have suffered much indoctrination, and have had so much difficulty in following Maharaji in the 'devotee' mode (what with all the fear-mongering when I was younger and being pressured by him to give up so much to live in ashrams etc. which I have great difficulty in accepting now) I truly wonder if these past traditional ways of 'spreading knowledge' may have been no more than the highjacking of a commodity, that should have been freely available (with no strings-attached), for the benefit of the Guru's and their immediate families, at the expense of their trusting followers. There is no doubting the religiosity of DLM and all the past gurus. One cannot help but see how religion is indeed the 'opiate of the people.' We except things to be as we are told because we don't want to rock the boat, especially since we are afraid that the captain may be God, and an ill-tempered one at that!

There really was so much fear mongering in the words of SatGurus to their followers...you know..'you'll come back as an insect if you dare cross your Guru' stuff. Read Shri Hans Ji's words on JM's website, if you doubt it. Maharaji repeated this indimidating sort of line when he was younger and it worked. All us god-fearing westerners fell for it too!

I think Maharaji does, on principle, owe us some straight answers to release us from the bonds of fear that he seems to have (by current evidence) successfully managed to traumatise us with when we were kids -for example: Does he really now still think that, if you don't practice, you will experience the equivalent of tons of rotting vegetables in your life?
I know this particular quote always gets cited as the example of 'Heavy Satsang' but of course, there were many other such insinuations, suggestions made at the time. This is just the infamous one. I mean, what does he really mean? Really??

Did his mistakes or his abuses change the fact that he taught us..... a way to connect to the deepest love we'd ever known inside of us.

Who's to say that he is really indispensible in the teaching of this deepest of experiences?(apart from him of course!)
Maybe if he hadn't enforced such a tight monopoly on the distribution, then we could all share this thing magnanamously with our fellow men. (It has to be said that Maharaji has inadvertantly created a society of people who are demonstrably lacking in many of the human virtues that other people, without the benefit of his knowledge, have in plenty.)

It seems to me that premies sometimes assume they are on the right track, relegate responsiblity for their morals as a result, get lazy about their integrety, and before long end up as selfish, developmentally-arrested, unkind, thoughtless towards others zealots, who preach about the virtues of the Master who has enlightened them to their true natures! (I am being Devils Avocate here because I know most premies are very beautiful, sincere people underneath, however I think you'll agree there is a disturbing element of truth in this)

A quite impartial non-premie friend of mine came round, even just now, saying (quite without us being on the subject) that he found that of those people who he deals with, who are the most friendly when they want something from you but don't even cast a friendly glance in your direction if you have nothing they want-'vampiric' is a word that comes to mind- 'They...' said he, with a healthy relunctance to quickly criticise others but tangible honesty, 'usually... turn out to be Premies, I'm afraid'.

Carol, even though your better nature urges you to judge Maharaji generously and further to forgive him his bad old ways, please do not lose sight (maybe because he has just bliss-bombed you with his home-spun and uncontentious video transmission!) that it is our duty as seekers for ultimate truth, not to compromise, and that it may be a nobler thing to be unrestrained in our criticism or even Devils-Advocatish towards he who once wielded enormous power over others in sometimes very questionable ways. For he may continue to do so if left unchallenged. God knows he is surrounded by people already who agree with his every word. If you indeed have some love and respect for him, it is surely only best to reproach him frankly, particularly if his behaviour is, or was, in any way offensive to you or others.

One fundamental reason that I decided to back off from him and allow myself to be critical of him here, was that I was sick of trying to introduce people I cared about to Knowledge, only to have them baulk at the same kind of things that went against the grain for me, but which I tolerated out of a perversion of the word respect. Also how could I, in all honesty, recommend Maharaji's 'path' to my loved ones, when I personally suffered so much humiliation in the aspirant process. I would not wish the same on those I love, despite whatever feelings I may have that they may benefit from knowledge.

This is the struggle I have and which compels me to try and change things, or at least make Maharaji and those who help him prepare aspirants etc. to see how their attitudes can cause dreadful suffering and confusion to sincere people.

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Date: Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 06:43:36 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek™
Email: drek@oz.net
To: Anon
Subject: ***Best*** because I say so!
Message:
***Best***

Gosh, I just hate suggestions or criticism, but I can sure dish the same out with gusto.

Indeed, the House of Maharaji Drek is a disgrace and my lights have been punched out once too many times and I'll never be the same. Unfortunately, it does seem to be my trademark style. I'm not sure that I could do it any other way.

I really think that the recommended introductory to the entire exit process, if it can be called that, starts with the premie in the first place. And it is suggested to a premie interested in breaking away is to read as much of the contents of www.ex-premie.org as they can. That suggestion is, in fact, is on that website. And that is suggested even before a premie should even consider reading the rather raucous forums. Since the ***Best*** comes from the forums it is assumed that such a premie will have made whatever baby steps are necessary first. Hopefully, they will then have some kind of perspective that includes a sense of humor and maybe they will be able to get through the satire and crudeness that is the House of Maharaji Drek.

Point well taken, but it's too late now.

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Date: Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 03:32:51 (GMT)
From: VP
Email: None
To: Anon
Subject: To Carol. re: judging M
Message:
That was very well written, Anon.
I especially liked what you said about not wanting to put your loved ones through the humiliation of the aspirant process.
You have a good heart and you speak with honesty and integrity,
VP
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Date: Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 21:05:44 (GMT)
From: Carol
Email: None
To: Anon
Subject: I agree completely!!!!!
Message:
Dear Anon,
Really I do, I think the exact same things! I also feel like he needs to hear it or read it, just the way you wrote it! I tried to write him, but I couldn't cut and paste, and when I couldn't, I asked JW to do it for me (I haven't heard back from him,whether he could do it). I haven't tried again by re-writing directly at his site. Have you ever tried? I've been a bit too involved writing here, and writing and seeing old friends. I wish everone would take their serious and heartfelt complaints and suggestions directly to him!

There was one point in the Satellite, (when as I said, it seemed
he was looking straight at me, when I was as far right as I could be and still see),he paused tilted hi head, smiled and said, ' I know, you have many things which are important to you.'

These things that are important to me, I am not afraid to express to him. I feel close to him with a heart connection even though I have mostly gone my own direction and not been living my old concept of the life 'of a good premie' for many years. I am not a follower anymore, and I still find his heart to be as pure as mine....to be just like mine, behind the personality and the organization and the history and the mistakes that get made. I certainly make mistakes! I agree he should acknowledge them to all his previous followers and current seekers.

Is everyone really so sure that he has not done that alresady and you missed it???
It has been many years since I felt like telling people to get Knowledge. I could not imagine sending them into the process, they way it was happening. I think he would do better to allow everyone who valued the meditation to give it out freely to the people they knew who were interested! I also know that, as I stated before: there are many rivers to one ocean!
I wish all the religious and spiritual and political leaders
would find a way to unite by accepting resposibility of each of them to promote common sense and loving behavior of all people!
Think it might ever happen? I hope so! I figure Peace begins with me, so I try to do my part, for whatever it is worth!
I hope you will e-mail me. I will be spending much less time here from now on. I need to keep my life balanced and catch up on lots of home stuff. I also just signed up for a weekly belly dancing class and a spinning class! I hope you take some time for some activities that give you life! I really respect you.

Love, *
Carol )-: >to> (-: >to this> * O *
*

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Date: Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 23:32:43 (GMT)
From: Anon
Email: None
To: Carol
Subject: I agree completely!!!!!
Message:
Have you ever tried? (writing to him directly)

I am not very confident about this approach. I feel Maharaji has shown that he is not prepared to give time to hear criticism. After all he is keen to remind everyone to stop complaining, isn't he? However I did write a letter to him cica 1996, in Amaroo. I certainly didn't receive a reply. I didn't really expect one though. Writing here has been a way of releasing the frustration at not being heard or lent a sympathetic ear within Maharaji's world.

I wish everone would take their serious and heartfelt complaints and suggestions directly to him!

Have some not done so and been given short shrift? I can understand why Premies are afraid to criticise him.

I agree he should acknowledge them (his mistakes} to all his previous followers and current seekers. Is everyone really so sure that he has not done that alresady and you missed it???

Can you find any quotes? they are obviously hard to come by aren't they?! That sugggests to me that he is content with the situation and that maybe it suits him that premies are, on the whole, willing to accept blame for many of the past mistakes.

I feel close to him with a heart connection even though I have mostly gone my own direction and not been living my old concept of the life 'of a good premie' for many years. I am not a follower anymore, and I still find his heart to be as pure as mine....to be just like mine, behind the personality and the organization and the history and the mistakes that get made.

I know what you mean, although I am not sure that the heart connection may be a little one sided in reality! I am still rather disillusioned from the realisation that a lot of the 'connection' or 'care' that I used to trust was coming from M was naive or wishful thinking on my part, and that the 'care' certaimly was not a very practical one.
People from all religions imagine that they are being cared for by their chosen Lord. It is a good quality to see the good in others. As a child I was confident that if captured by nasty men, I could soften their hearts with my innocence. As an adult I see that it doesn't always work like that except maybe in fairy tales.

I think that in a childlike way one can almost look at anyone and conclude that their heart is pure like ones own. But on another level they may actually have very different morals standards than you. Worse, if you judge others only by their 'poetic' talent or ability to inspire you, you may be later very surprised about how completely mistaken you were about them as people. I think that it is unwise to follow someone just because they mirror your heart. Be they a wonderful poet like Khalil Gibran, or a great musician like Wagner, whose works may lift your spirit to heaven, they may be very screwed up in their own lives. Wagner, for example wrote divine music but was outrightly anti-semitic and an undeniable ego-maniac. Gibran, I believe was a hopless alcoholic and depressive despite the wisdom of his poetry. Look at Carlos Castenada..he was a treasured spiritual inspiration for many of our generation. (not me I hasten to add) He apparently turned out to be an imposter. The list goes on and on.

Enough. Thanks for your warm hearted response. I hope you read this, you may have decided to retreat from here given the little hornet's nest you seem to have stirred up! I think we have quite a lot in common actually.

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Date: Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 01:39:55 (GMT)
From: JHB
Email: brauns@dircon.co.uk
To: Carol
Subject: Re: I agree completely!!!!!
Message:
Carol,

You don't appear to agree completely. Anyway you said:-

I am not a follower anymore, and I still find his heart to be as pure as mine....to be just like mine, behind the personality and the organization and the history and the mistakes that get made. I certainly make mistakes! I agree he should acknowledge them to all his previous followers and current seekers.

Is everyone really so sure that he has not done that already and you missed it???

Yes I am sure. Very sure. He has not done that yet.

Carol, you are deluded. You did not look into his heart and see it pure. This is pure imagination. Whatever good you see comes from you, but your failure to see bad is not a good thing.

If you want to discuss this privately, I am happy to do so.

John.

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Date: Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 12:07:53 (GMT)
From: a premie
Email: None
To: Anon
Subject: To Carol. re: judging M
Message:
Hello, how are you, Ex premies?
When did you feel love the last time?
Once you had the Perfect Knowledge.
And now?
Do you want a 1000.000.000 dollar check?
Take it it is free!
Only for you.
Don't forget my bank acount is empty.
So, you see the difference when you talk of Knowledge, and when Maharaji does.
If you want 1000.000.000 dollars, go to somebody who does have it.
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Date: Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 15:23:59 (GMT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: a premie
Subject: To 'a premie'
Message:
AP: You asked a question, 'When did you feel love the last time?'
I'll answer it for you: Every single day! I love my wife, my kid, my family and my friends! Every single day..... They aren't 'perfect,' but I love them even more for that! Every single day.....

M is NOT, I repeat NOT the world's repository of 'love.' In fact, I don't believe that HE knows what it is!

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Date: Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 16:18:44 (GMT)
From: Shifting
Email: None
To: Mike
Subject: AMEN
Message:
All said by you.
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Date: Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 18:18:57 (GMT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: Shifting
Subject: AMEN
Message:
Amen, again. Human beings love very well without Haharaji and his 'teachings'.
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Date: Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 14:20:01 (GMT)
From: Anon
Email: None
To: a premie
Subject: I beg your pardon?
Message:
Hello, how are you, Ex premies? When did you feel love the last time? Once you had the Perfect Knowledge.And now? Do you want a 1000.000.000 dollar check? Take it it is free! Only for you.Don't forget my bank acount is empty.So, you see the difference when you talk of Knowledge, and when Maharaji does. If you want 1000.000.000 dollars, go to somebody who does have it.

Er..fine thanks..and you? I feel love every day thankfully. By '1000.000.000 dollars' do you mean a thousand million dollars (the decimal points are confusing).

Joking aside, I suppose your analogy is supposed to suggest that because Maharaji is teaching the knowledge he is logically the first person to go to for it (since no one else is doing so) why look further? etc..
Just because that is the current situation does that mean that no-one else could teach it? or that a group of people with genuine appreciation of the experience could not teach it? I wonder this purely because I am frankly not entirely comfortable with Maharaji's conditions even if he does have the requisite '1000.000.000 dollar check' to offer. It has arguably not been an entirely free gift for me, since it cost me a great deal of time and effort and some unpleasantness. That may be not everybody's experience but it was mine.
Don't forget that Maharaji doesn't exactly encourage others to do his job. I do recall though that in days gone by I, and many others were full of such infectious bliss that we indeed inspired many others to receive Knowledge. So I think it is worth remembering that when you say 'see the difference when you talk of Knowledge, and when Maharaji does' Are we not allowed any credit for our experience. Do we owe it all to Maharaji?? If so, why?? The amount of gratitude Maharaji garners seems rather immoderate given the humble attitude he likes others to adopt towards him, and that we have considerably helped him to spread knowledge.

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Date: Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 18:32:34 (GMT)
From: Christopher
Email: None
To: Anon
Subject: I beg your pardon?
Message:
Anon, loved your thread, and think it should be nominated for **'Best of'** (in a more serious vein than some of Roger eDrek's contributants - no offense, Rog, but maybe another 'Best of' site, perhaps here on ex-premie.org,- with a less punchy style, could help wean away those more sensitive wee premies?)

As for crap like this:

'Hello, how are you, Ex premies? When did you feel love the last time? Once you had the Perfect Knowledge.And now? Do you want a 1000.000.000 dollar check? Take it it is free! Only for you.Don't forget my bank acount is empty.So, you see the difference when you talk of Knowledge, and when Maharaji does. If you want 1000.000.000 dollars, go to somebody who does have it.'

- it wouldn't surprise me if that was the Maha in person indulging in a little mind-fuck time-wasting.

It's your choice, Anon, but I think the time-wasters are a drain on energy, clear-thinking and, ultimately, themselves. Why bother?

Perhaps we could post something along the lines of a '//(nt)' (slash, slash)(nt) or 'satslang above(nt)' header under such posts? Or is that too much like dictatorship? What do you think?

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