Roger eDrek™ -:- Big Point on $$$ -:- Mon, Jan 24, 2000 at 19:32:56 (GMT)

__ EddyTheHootle -:- Guys u gone Nuts -:- Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 15:22:04 (GMT)

__ __ Ben Lurking -:- Guys u gone Nuts -:- Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 16:10:33 (GMT)

__ __ __ Recovering faster now -:- Eddy is your average shallow -:- Thurs, Jan 27, 2000 at 21:15:07 (GMT)

__ In your excitement you -:- overlooked 1 thing - the truth -:- Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 00:04:10 (GMT)

__ __ AJW -:- Ssssh, it's a secret. -:- Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 14:57:39 (GMT)

__ __ __ CQG -:- That was my point ... -:- Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 19:20:25 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ whoever -:- That was my point ... -:- Thurs, Jan 27, 2000 at 18:32:10 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ cqg -:- meaning...? (nt) -:- Thurs, Jan 27, 2000 at 19:58:03 (GMT)

__ __ Marianne -:- Post EV's financials here -:- Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 13:40:18 (GMT)

__ __ Roger eDrek™ -:- Show me the Money, Premie Ji! -:- Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 06:38:49 (GMT)

__ __ Ben Lurking -:- overlooked 1 thing - the truth -:- Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 01:32:53 (GMT)

__ __ Consider this -:- overlooked 1 thing - the truth -:- Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 01:24:28 (GMT)

__ __ __ Wishful -:- thinking Mr. Kerde -:- Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 02:12:43 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ gerry -:- Explain this then -:- Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 04:07:56 (GMT)

__ __ mantis -:- overlooked 1 thing - the truth -:- Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 01:03:04 (GMT)

__ __ __ You too have -:- overlooked the truth -:- Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 01:20:19 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ mantis -:- overlooked the truth -:- Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 01:59:47 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ You should -:- seek help, my friend -:- Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 02:15:04 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Mantis -:- seek help, my friend -:- Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 02:36:07 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Mike -:- It's just the no-name -:- Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 17:24:10 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Mantis -:- It's just the no-name -:- Wed, Jan 26, 2000 at 02:06:37 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ What a Charming fellow -:- Guess you can't... -:- Thurs, Jan 27, 2000 at 06:19:54 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Mantis -:- Guess you can't... -:- Thurs, Jan 27, 2000 at 21:05:50 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ JHB -:- seek help, my friend -:- Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 12:12:34 (GMT)

__ JHB -:- How Many Satellites? -:- Mon, Jan 24, 2000 at 19:39:05 (GMT)

__ __ hamzen -:- Jean-Michel Needed -:- Mon, Jan 24, 2000 at 20:05:06 (GMT)

__ __ Roger eDrek™ -:- Excellent question -:- Mon, Jan 24, 2000 at 19:55:44 (GMT)

__ __ __ la-ex -:- Excellent question -:- Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 05:35:51 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ CD -:- Excellent question -:- Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 06:16:28 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Roger eDrek™ -:- That's the high tech black box -:- Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 06:57:02 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ recent ex -:- Why a pre-recorded broadcast -:- Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 06:02:12 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Anon -:- Why a pre-recorded broadcast -:- Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 10:25:18 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Roger eDrek™ -:- ***BEST*** -:- Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 22:44:44 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Jean-Michel -:- Sendind tapes' cost -:- Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 10:07:38 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Rapt Pre-ex observers -:- Great stuff -:- Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 07:35:29 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ JHB -:- Great stuff -:- Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 12:21:37 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Rapt Pre ex Observers -:- Great stuff -:- Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 16:36:46 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Brian -:- Great stuff -:- Wed, Jan 26, 2000 at 15:27:05 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ JHB -:- Great stuff -:- Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 17:22:15 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ memeber of cult -:- Anything at all? -:- Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 12:47:55 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Ms. K -:- Anything at all? -:- Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 15:31:06 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ JHB -:- Anything at all? -:- Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 13:23:15 (GMT)

Happy -:- Report from India -:- Mon, Jan 24, 2000 at 15:03:54 (GMT)

__ Anon -:- Report from India -:- Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 00:57:18 (GMT)

__ __ Happy -:- Report from India -:- Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 09:58:00 (GMT)

__ __ __ Powerman -:- Report from India -:- Wed, Jan 26, 2000 at 00:08:00 (GMT)

__ __ __ Ms. K -:- Report from India -:- Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 15:40:40 (GMT)

__ Loaf -:- Sai Baba's claim to fame -:- Mon, Jan 24, 2000 at 22:29:12 (GMT)

__ __ Mike -:- 'Their' claim to fame -:- Mon, Jan 24, 2000 at 22:53:18 (GMT)

__ Robyn -:- Report from India -:- Mon, Jan 24, 2000 at 18:39:03 (GMT)

__ Jean-Michel -:- What about other RSSM masters? -:- Mon, Jan 24, 2000 at 16:11:30 (GMT)

__ Powerman -:- Report from India -:- Mon, Jan 24, 2000 at 15:33:06 (GMT)

__ __ Power Ranger -:- Report from India -:- Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 11:20:45 (GMT)

__ __ __ Mu -:- Report from India -:- Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 18:52:04 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Powerman -:- Report from India -:- Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 23:41:20 (GMT)

__ __ Runamok -:- Report from India -:- Mon, Jan 24, 2000 at 18:11:58 (GMT)

__ __ __ Powerman -:- Report from India -:- Mon, Jan 24, 2000 at 19:40:29 (GMT)

__ __ Mu -:- Report from India -:- Mon, Jan 24, 2000 at 17:38:29 (GMT)

__ __ __ Powerman -:- Report from India -:- Mon, Jan 24, 2000 at 19:43:00 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Mu -:- That was too easy! HAHAHAHA... -:- Mon, Jan 24, 2000 at 19:46:37 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Michael -:- That was too easy! HAHAHAHA... -:- Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 17:31:12 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Mu -:- That was too easy! HAHAHAHA... -:- Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 18:20:24 (GMT)

__ __ Happy -:- Report from India -:- Mon, Jan 24, 2000 at 15:49:31 (GMT)

__ __ __ Powerman -:- Report from India -:- Mon, Jan 24, 2000 at 16:41:24 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Anon -:- Report from India -:- Mon, Jan 24, 2000 at 23:59:59 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Powerman -:- Report from India -:- Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 01:37:46 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Anon -:- Report from India -:- Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 03:04:41 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Powerman -:- Report from India -:- Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 04:45:04 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- Report from India -:- Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 01:59:14 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Powerman -:- Report from India -:- Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 02:14:14 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- India Report/English Scandal -:- Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 03:48:50 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Mu -:- Report from India -:- Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 02:31:23 (GMT)

__ __ __ Way -:- Report from India -:- Mon, Jan 24, 2000 at 16:34:16 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Agasp Mom -:- What a stupid arguement -:- Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 17:28:08 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Powerman -:- What a stupid arguement -:- Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 18:20:05 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Robyn -:- What a stupid arguement -:- Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 20:34:33 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Powerman -:- What a stupid arguement -:- Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 23:42:48 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Robyn -:- What a stupid arguement -:- Wed, Jan 26, 2000 at 00:02:28 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Powerman -:- What a stupid arguement -:- Wed, Jan 26, 2000 at 00:29:38 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Agasp Mom -:- Good Lord -:- Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 19:35:25 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Powerman -:- Good Lord -:- Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 23:59:45 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Powerman -:- Good Lord -:- Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 23:48:14 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Agasp -:- Good Lord -:- Wed, Jan 26, 2000 at 13:00:57 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Powerman -:- Good Lord -:- Wed, Jan 26, 2000 at 16:07:08 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Robyn -:- Good Lord -:- Wed, Jan 26, 2000 at 14:21:51 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Agasp -:- Lord help us -:- Wed, Jan 26, 2000 at 20:34:30 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Powerman -:- Lord help us -:- Wed, Jan 26, 2000 at 20:50:03 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Asasp -:- Allright thats it -:- Wed, Jan 26, 2000 at 21:58:25 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Robyn -:- Allright thats it -:- Wed, Jan 26, 2000 at 22:59:16 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Agasp -:- Allright thats it -:- Thurs, Jan 27, 2000 at 00:23:45 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Robyn -:- Allright thats it -:- Thurs, Jan 27, 2000 at 00:46:18 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Mu -:- Pman is such a brute..yum! -:- Thurs, Jan 27, 2000 at 04:09:34 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Mu -:- Good Lord -:- Wed, Jan 26, 2000 at 02:01:20 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ michael -:- Bravo! Well said. (nt) -:- Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 19:42:17 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Mu -:- Hi sweetie..want me, dontcha? -:- Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 18:30:08 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Powerman -:- Hi sweetie..want me, dontcha? -:- Wed, Jan 26, 2000 at 00:01:05 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Mu -:- Hi sweetie..want me, dontcha? -:- Wed, Jan 26, 2000 at 02:10:24 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- I'm warning you P-Man -:- Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 18:05:54 (GMT)

Test of -:- Starting a New Thread -:- Sun, Jan 23, 2000 at 15:47:31 (GMT)

__ Roger eDrek™ -:- Satellite Video $ Analysis -:- Sun, Jan 23, 2000 at 19:01:25 (GMT)

__ __ AJW -:- It's just an old bus. -:- Mon, Jan 24, 2000 at 10:04:20 (GMT)

__ __ __ Roger eDrek™ -:- Just an old bus, but **Best** -:- Mon, Jan 24, 2000 at 18:41:27 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ AJW -:- Young Ones -:- Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 14:52:59 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Roger eDrek™ -:- Young Ones -:- Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 22:50:49 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ CQG -:- That's Cliff Richard,m'lud(nt) -:- Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 18:46:09 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Jacj -:- Live, Love , etc.etc., -:- Wed, Jan 26, 2000 at 19:36:22 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ JHB -:- Young Ones -:- Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 15:47:07 (GMT)

__ __ Shifting -:- Satellite Video $ Analysis -:- Sun, Jan 23, 2000 at 19:58:02 (GMT)

__ __ __ A human -:- Satellite Video $ Analysis -:- Sun, Jan 23, 2000 at 21:48:53 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Accountant -:- Video Charges -:- Mon, Jan 24, 2000 at 10:14:25 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Shifting -:- Satellite Video $ Analysis -:- Sun, Jan 23, 2000 at 22:22:01 (GMT)

__ __ __ Roger eDrek™ -:- Assumptions were generous -:- Sun, Jan 23, 2000 at 21:11:42 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ la-ex -:- Assumptions were generous -:- Mon, Jan 24, 2000 at 03:56:23 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Roger eDrek™ -:- We can find this out -:- Mon, Jan 24, 2000 at 07:49:57 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Shifting -:- Assumptions were generous -:- Sun, Jan 23, 2000 at 22:26:16 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- The bells are ringing... -:- Mon, Jan 24, 2000 at 03:24:36 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Brian -:- The birds are singing... -:- Mon, Jan 24, 2000 at 13:37:09 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Anon -:- The birds are singing... -:- Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 01:15:20 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ shifting forgets to look. -:- No bells. -:- Mon, Jan 24, 2000 at 04:38:34 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- My Big Apology -:- Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 00:38:34 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Roger Paranoid eDrek™ -:- The loaf is in the oven... -:- Mon, Jan 24, 2000 at 04:27:18 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Loaf -:- The loaf is in the oven... -:- Mon, Jan 24, 2000 at 12:20:07 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Roger eDrek™ -:- Oh no! I forgot we had a Loaf -:- Mon, Jan 24, 2000 at 16:34:41 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Roger eDrek™ -:- Let's call Elan Vital and ask -:- Sun, Jan 23, 2000 at 23:05:51 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ CQG -:- Let's call Elan Vital and ask -:- Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 19:00:18 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Roger eDrek™ -:- that's a lot of understanding -:- Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 22:52:43 (GMT)

Roger eDrek™ -:- Help on Mac Power PC (OT) -:- Sun, Jan 23, 2000 at 04:26:13 (GMT)

__ Anon -:- Help on Mac Power PC (OT) -:- Sun, Jan 23, 2000 at 17:42:10 (GMT)

__ IJ -:- Help on Mac Power PC (OT) -:- Sun, Jan 23, 2000 at 11:27:17 (GMT)

__ __ CQG -:- Help on Mac Power PC (OT) -:- Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 13:15:01 (GMT)

__ hamzen -:- Help on Mac Power PC (OT) -:- Sun, Jan 23, 2000 at 11:01:37 (GMT)

__ __ Roger J.P. Jones eDrek™ -:- Thanks all, and Hamzen -:- Mon, Jan 24, 2000 at 17:44:03 (GMT)

__ __ __ hamzen -:- Thanks all, and Hamzen -:- Mon, Jan 24, 2000 at 20:23:06 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ IJ -:- Thanks all, and Hamzen -:- Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 20:36:59 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ CQG -:- Thanks all, and Hamzen -:- Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 21:27:18 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Selene -:- Thanks all, and Hamzen -:- Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 04:07:31 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- damned no edit -:- Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 04:16:53 (GMT)

__ Roger eDrek™ -:- Help on Mac Power PC (OT) -:- Sun, Jan 23, 2000 at 09:14:09 (GMT)

__ __ Roger eDrek™ -:- Attn Forum Admins! Archive it! -:- Sun, Jan 23, 2000 at 09:28:51 (GMT)

__ __ __ Test -:- Just started a thread! -:- Sun, Jan 23, 2000 at 15:49:04 (GMT)

JHB -:- A challenge to Maharaji -:- Sun, Jan 23, 2000 at 01:09:44 (GMT)

__ Sifting -:- A challenge to Maharaji -:- Sun, Jan 23, 2000 at 02:02:44 (GMT)

__ __ Jean-Michel -:- HIS Most Blatant Lies exposed -:- Sun, Jan 23, 2000 at 05:38:22 (GMT)

__ __ __ Marianne -:- Smartest thing M ever did -:- Sun, Jan 23, 2000 at 16:49:32 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Jean-Michel -:- Someone dumb like me -:- Sun, Jan 23, 2000 at 21:19:04 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Jean-Michel -:- Sorry Rawat, I was wrong ! -:- Mon, Jan 24, 2000 at 10:11:11 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Shifting -:- Someone dumb like me, nt -:- Sun, Jan 23, 2000 at 22:28:06 (GMT)

Rated-X -:- Domination -:- Sun, Jan 23, 2000 at 00:04:29 (GMT)

__ Mistress Grammar -:- Domination -:- Sun, Jan 23, 2000 at 17:00:24 (GMT)

__ __ CQG -:- Hell ain't Hell anymore (nt) -:- Mon, Jan 24, 2000 at 21:29:27 (GMT)

__ __ __ CQG -:- Oops-it's changed its name(nt) -:- Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 18:37:07 (GMT)

Richard -:- denaturalization & deportation -:- Sat, Jan 22, 2000 at 20:23:49 (GMT)

__ Roger eDrek™ -:- Probably need a miracle -:- Sun, Jan 23, 2000 at 06:34:03 (GMT)

__ __ Marianne -:- Forgot organ grinding monkey -:- Sun, Jan 23, 2000 at 16:56:46 (GMT)

__ __ __ Shifting -:- and something else -:- Sun, Jan 23, 2000 at 17:49:19 (GMT)

Robyn -:- HB Steve Perry! -:- Sat, Jan 22, 2000 at 16:51:25 (GMT)

__ Helen -:- HB Steve Perry! -:- Sun, Jan 23, 2000 at 04:05:21 (GMT)

__ __ Robyn -:- HB Steve Perry! -:- Sun, Jan 23, 2000 at 15:26:36 (GMT)

CQG -:- Carol, I'd like to apologise -:- Sat, Jan 22, 2000 at 16:01:33 (GMT)

__ michael -:- Carol, I'd like to apologise -:- Sat, Jan 22, 2000 at 18:18:34 (GMT)

CQG -:- How some premies will feel -:- Sat, Jan 22, 2000 at 15:22:31 (GMT)

__ Helen -:- How some premies will feel -:- Sun, Jan 23, 2000 at 04:14:48 (GMT)

__ __ CQG -:- ... and how some of us felt -:- Mon, Jan 24, 2000 at 18:43:45 (GMT)

__ __ __ Helen -:- losing the ego & one's power -:- Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 16:47:27 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ CQG -:- Whatever happened to ... -:- Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 18:35:04 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Helen -:- Whatever happened to ... -:- Wed, Jan 26, 2000 at 19:11:03 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ cqg -:- Wild things -:- Thurs, Jan 27, 2000 at 19:50:11 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Helen -:- losing the ego & one's power -:- Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 16:53:54 (GMT)

__ michael -:- How some premies will feel -:- Sat, Jan 22, 2000 at 18:02:55 (GMT)

__ __ CQG -:- ..premies and ... who else? -:- Mon, Jan 24, 2000 at 19:09:51 (GMT)

__ __ __ michael -:- ..premies and ... anyone else! -:- Mon, Jan 24, 2000 at 20:31:55 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ CQG -:- ..premies and ... anyone else! -:- Mon, Jan 24, 2000 at 21:20:29 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ michael -:- ..premies and ... anyone else! -:- Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 01:36:17 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ CQG -:- ... anyone else? -:- Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 21:05:19 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ michael -:- ... anyone else? -:- Wed, Jan 26, 2000 at 02:59:20 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ CQG -:- everyone else? -:- Wed, Jan 26, 2000 at 18:19:55 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ JHB -:- Joni Mitchell -:- Wed, Jan 26, 2000 at 18:38:47 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ CQG -:- Good grief -:- Thurs, Jan 27, 2000 at 19:43:06 (GMT)

Golden Oldie -:- my freedom -:- Sat, Jan 22, 2000 at 12:37:34 (GMT)

__ Roger eDrek™ -:- Excuuuze me? ***Best*** -:- Sun, Jan 23, 2000 at 03:48:29 (GMT)

__ Robyn -:- my freedom -:- Sat, Jan 22, 2000 at 16:49:00 (GMT)

__ Mike -:- Scene from poltergeist: -:- Sat, Jan 22, 2000 at 15:09:52 (GMT)

__ Marianne -:- Your freedom -:- Sat, Jan 22, 2000 at 13:44:46 (GMT)

mantis -:- anyone remember this? -:- Sat, Jan 22, 2000 at 07:18:22 (GMT)

__ DV -:- anyone remember this? -:- Sat, Jan 22, 2000 at 14:50:08 (GMT)

__ AJW -:- 'I'd slit his throat.' -:- Sat, Jan 22, 2000 at 12:49:17 (GMT)

__ __ Roger eDrek™ -:- Don't bogart that joint, my fr -:- Sun, Jan 23, 2000 at 04:11:00 (GMT)

__ __ __ AJwhatwasit? -:- 'Forgot where I put it' (nt) -:- Sun, Jan 23, 2000 at 11:01:39 (GMT)

__ __ corvuscorax -:- 'I'd slit his throat.' -:- Sat, Jan 22, 2000 at 13:27:16 (GMT)

__ __ __ Sean O'Grady -:- 'I'd slit his throat.' -:- Wed, Jan 26, 2000 at 03:07:50 (GMT)

__ __ __ AJW -:- 'Beer...mmmmmmm..' -:- Sun, Jan 23, 2000 at 10:59:40 (GMT)

Date: Mon, Jan 24, 2000 at 19:32:56 (GMT) From: Roger eDrek™ Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Big Point on $$$ Message:

AJW says a lot about the money plays that Maharaji has made throughout the years. However, I think that this Satellite thing is the absolute best and stands to be the most successful if only Maharaji can retain enough Westerners and Asians who have adequate incomes to be able to afford this luxury. Again, my figures from my post titled, 'We can find this out' are very important in understanding exactly how much this Satellite gamble means to Maharaji. I'll repeat what I posted in that post because it is so important to understand the implications: Ok, the Really Big Show costs $100k for the satellite. Show ain't got no writers, no producers, no nobodies. Revenue is between $150k and $300k and you got a bottom line profit somewhere between $50k to $200k. Let's say that there's another $25k somewhere and that leaves you in the neighborhood $25k and $175k. Still, not bad for a day or two of work. Do two or three of these a month and you got anywhere from $50k and $525k. Annually, that's between $600k and $6.3 million! Besides, the potential annual income of between $600k and $6.3 million, based on my estimates, are the monthly revenues, but most importantly are the single Satellite Broadcast revenues in the possible range of $25k to $175k or more. Why is it important to talk about the $25k to $175k that Maharaji might earn from a single video? Because now as never before most of that revenue goes directly to him. It is quite possible that the days of frequent or semi-frequent large public programs are over because they cost too much money and there is too much risk if not enough premies show up or if the Ex-Premies show up with picket signs or the Press was to show up. I don't have a clue as to the costs and expenses of a public program and the revenue, but premies are always told that the entry fee barely covers the expenses. Undoubtedly, the expenses are high. The attempt to extract more cash from premies from the sale of over priced trinket items is an effort to replace the totally tax free income that Maharaji used to rely on that came from darshan lines. And quite possibly as seen by the recent fire sale of trinkets at Visions that the trinket market has been saturated and there is little further interest on the part of premies to buy decks of playing cards with the Swan logo. I would suspect that the trinket gambit has played itself out, but will continue nevertheless as they probably have a warehouse of excess inventory that's collecting dust. After all, there's absolutely no secondary liquidator's market for that junk unless you consider collectors of kooky stuff. Hey, now there's an idea. In fifty years there's going to be a subculture that collects and trades that stuff just like they collect Nazi memorabilia today. Mark my words. Maharaji has an incredible and most likely an unbearable amount of overhead throughout his entire bloated and excessively extravagant everything has to be first class operation. Maharaji's worse problem has got to be his own ego. With an ego like his Maharaji is very unlikely to be able to do very much cost control or to reduce his own excesses. 'To be successful you need to project the image of success.' Like Maharaji said, 'It's not easy to be rich. It isn't. Once you've made your first million, you need another to protect it.' Damn straight on that, dude. Just don't ask me to help cover your ass and your first fifty million. There are the wealthy PAMs that have given Maharaji cash and incredible ground floor investment opportunities. However, this has to be a limited supply for Maharaji's vampiric needs. Perhaps, he has already seen that the well is running dry. Again, the Satellite Broadcast scheme is the most promising thing Maharaji has ever had. Low cost with a possibly unlimited high return. Incredible! And the fact that he had the gall to sell a pre-recorded video is absolutely appalling. Previous to this communities would receive pre-recorded videos for a flat fixed fee through the monthly subscription rate of about $270. Let's say that the average community shows 10 different videos per month to a total of 100 people that is a per view revenue of $2.70 versus a potential of $30.00. Quite a substantial difference. And really, the big huge point here is that with the Satellite Broadcast Scam Maharaji can make on a single video a minimum of $25k and possibly $175k or more depending on the number of viewers. OTHER THAN A DARSHAN LINE NEVER BEFORE HAS THE MONEY GONE STRAIGHT TO MAHARAJI LIKE THIS! And that is what premies might want to consider when they're shelling out these $30 each time they want and need to see Maharaji which might be several times per month. Perhaps, the premies might realize that they have been sucked into Maharaji's money machine like never before. It's too blatant to ignore. It's a money machine for Maharaji. The whole thing has been designed and engineered to allow Maharaji to be able to maintain his excessively ostentatious and greedy lifestyle. I think that we might remember, was it Joey or someone else, who attended an Amtext appreciation meeting at the Malibu Residence as to how excited Maharaji was about his new high tech studio and how he was grateful for Amtext for giving him the money for the completion of the studio. This is why! End of Story.

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Date: Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 15:22:04 (GMT) From: EddyTheHootle Email: None To: Roger eDrek™ Subject: Guys u gone Nuts Message:

It seems to me you guys are doing your Nut in over the $$$$'s that M is or might be earning....well good luck to the guy if he is clever enough to make a 'Fistfull of Dollars'....why not....isnt that what uncle sam is all about... MAYBE you guys are Pissed off...because you dont have the warewithall to make a few bucks....have we gone over the edge already...in our 50's pissed off...with our hippy beard and sandal still dusting in the cupboard.... You remind me of these Beatnik generation...Ginsburg et al who threw out their Zen books etc and their woderings out into the dustbin and are now praching New Fuzzy Logic Investment management which will make you a multi-millioaire in a second.... Instead of preaching here..jerks like Derek...hope u buy your Mac...go and make some bread man and stop druedling over what M has or does not have....Does it make you sleepless.....Here is a hint...do u wana a good business plan...Open up an Internet Company...the trick is u goto think of somthing that has not been done...dont worry..you can still do it at the age of 50+..... By the way....cheaper way to broadcast video would be over the net....cost nothing compared with Sattelite Uplinks...

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Date: Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 16:10:33 (GMT) From: Ben Lurking Email: None To: EddyTheHootle Subject: Guys u gone Nuts Message:

Eddy - you are missing the point he neve rsaid I have a nice LEGITIMATE business that I want you to work for free for. The question is is he illegally getting money from a non-profit? We can only hope that like other great entrepenuers like him in the past that the tax man cometh upon him.

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Date: Thurs, Jan 27, 2000 at 21:15:07 (GMT) From: Recovering faster now Email: None To: Ben Lurking Subject: Eddy is your average shallow Message:

Ben, Eddy represents the compromised consciousness that exists in most places, i.e that it is ok to dress something up in lies and then make money out of it. From someone who is almost recovered from THAT crap that the Eddys of this world let get away with it. People like Eddy (eg Shp) are guilty by ommission.

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Date: Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 00:04:10 (GMT) From: In your excitement you Email: None To: Roger eDrek™ Subject: overlooked 1 thing - the truth Message:

Mr. Kerde Wrote: Why is it important to talk about the $25k to $175k that Maharaji might earn from a single video? Because now as never before most of that revenue goes directly to him. My Reply: Roger, try to control your misguided enthusiasm. The satellite broadcasts are still produced by Elan Vital, meaning he derives no personal monitary benefit from them. And might I remind you that revenues and expenses for EV are subjected to rigorous audits from government regulatory agencies, with no improprieties reported - ever. In fact the opposite is true. They have always been extremely impressed with the level of professionalism shown by the organisation's accounting practices. Maybe you should show documented proof that this is not the case or retract this highly speculative statement of yours. Unless of course you're concerned the facts will just get in the way...

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Date: Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 14:57:39 (GMT) From: AJW Email: None To: In your excitement you Subject: Ssssh, it's a secret. Message:

So where did the money to pay for the massive eysore on the hill in Malibu come from? (Not to mention the private jets, fleets of luxury cars, full time servants, massive houses abroad etc)? Don't tell me premie ji...I know...it's a secret right? Anth the Promise I won't tell.

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Date: Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 19:20:25 (GMT) From: CQG Email: None To: AJW Subject: That was my point ... Message:

That was my point in asking such apparently naive 'simple questions' in a thread below. The official version says that M gets NO income from Elan Vital. Then from WHERE, officially, does he get the dosh to ... for example ... fly and hangar a Gulfstream jet? And if the answer to that is something like: 'his wealthier followers are very generous', then it's about time the IRS and Charity Commission put their heads together and asked themselves just WHY someone like this should be favoured by the State as well.

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Date: Thurs, Jan 27, 2000 at 18:32:10 (GMT) From: whoever Email: None To: CQG Subject: That was my point ... Message:

Inovations, not like you-wasting your time!

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Date: Thurs, Jan 27, 2000 at 19:58:03 (GMT) From: cqg Email: None To: whoever Subject: meaning...? (nt) Message:

nt

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Date: Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 13:40:18 (GMT) From: Marianne Email: None To: Mr/Ms. Excitement Subject: Post EV's financials here Message:

Since you seem so familiar with the finances, and since government regulatory agencies are so impressed with EV's accounting practices and figures, POST THE INFORMATION HERE! You're the one who is hiding the truth. Let's see the facts and figures, for the worldwide organization. Better yet, let's see M's and Marolyn's tax returns. Marianne

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Date: Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 06:38:49 (GMT) From: Roger eDrek™ Email: drek@oz.net To: In your excitement you Subject: Show me the Money, Premie Ji! Message:

Sorry, I going to have to send you on a short sidetrip to the House of Drek. I really do not wish to cripple the links within my post because of the 50 character limit. Show me the money, Premie Ji!

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Date: Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 01:32:53 (GMT) From: Ben Lurking Email: None To: In your excitement you Subject: overlooked 1 thing - the truth Message:

You speak of EV as them as though you are the impartial auditor, if this is the case please reveal your country of orign and your affiliation with and goverment agency of that country, otherwise it just EV blowing more smoke.

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Date: Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 01:24:28 (GMT) From: Consider this Email: None To: In your excitement you Subject: overlooked 1 thing - the truth Message:

At the end of the 'Unique Event' video, it said 'Copyright Wahadamar Inc'. I heard that the name 'Wahadamar' is formed from the names of Mr. Rawat's children. Who owns 'Wahadamar Inc'? It was said that this video cost a lot to make. What was the breakdown of the costs in terms of labor and materials? It said that m basically did the whole production, and I would imagine that he used his own equipment. So what would the cost of materials be, except rental of his equipment and/or the room in his house that he was in? And since he did the whole production, I would think that the majority, if not all of, of the labor costs would go to him. If it cost a lot to make, then someone must have been paid a lot of money. If not him, who? There was absolutely no explanation of why this video cost so much to make.

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Date: Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 02:12:43 (GMT) From: Wishful Email: None To: Consider this Subject: thinking Mr. Kerde Message:

It's a big leap to go from the considerations you mention and to concluding that 'now as never before most of that revenue goes directly to him.' I'm sorry but there are just no conclusive relationships between your flimsey and naive speculations and this glib conclusion of yours. If you don't think auditors look for large amounts of money going to third party corporations then what do you think they're looking for? It's just more of the same. You people think you smell smoke when it's just the smell of your own wheels spinning. The media you bring into the fray seem to pick up on that quickly enough though.

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Date: Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 04:07:56 (GMT) From: gerry Email: None To: Wishful Subject: Explain this then Message:

gerry responded: Where DID Maharaji get all the money for his fabulous lifestyle? What's your explanation for all this?

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Date: Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 01:03:04 (GMT) From: mantis Email: None To: In your excitement you Subject: overlooked 1 thing - the truth Message:

You blithe fool. You do not know anything about it, do you? Dont' you know a front when you see it? Cash donations are the hardest to trace! Fool.

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Date: Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 01:20:19 (GMT) From: You too have Email: None To: mantis Subject: overlooked the truth Message:

You too have responded: I may be a fool but I'm one that needs more proof than your say-so. Now since you claim to be in the know, perhaps you could also substantiate your wild speculations with documentation, or please stop making them. And if you cannot, then it is you who look the biggest fool.

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Date: Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 01:59:47 (GMT) From: mantis Email: None To: You too have Subject: overlooked the truth Message:

Truth is no, I do not have proof that monies sent to elan vital end up in maharajis pocket. If I did, I would put it to good use. What you overlook, sweetie, is that it doesn't have to go directly into mahaha's account(s). It just has to put more fuel in the jet, finance another program, pay another ev bill that even though is indirect does keep fatso fat. Fool, you! Truth is you are a damn naive fool. You think this is about money? It's about nailing the worst kind of fraud and con and crook. Who protected a child molester? Who shits on gold crappers and craps on your life? Who is making a fool out of you? You must like having mahahaji in your pocket and up your bum! Smile if you like it!

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Date: Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 02:15:04 (GMT) From: You should Email: None To: mantis Subject: seek help, my friend Message:

Really!

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Date: Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 02:36:07 (GMT) From: Mantis Email: None To: You should Subject: seek help, my friend Message:

I am not your friend you sanctimonius guru lover, aider and abetter of child molesting. You are a dupe and a fraud. What is your take of elan vital? You must be on the payroll.

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Date: Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 17:24:10 (GMT) From: Mike Email: None To: Mantis Subject: It's just the no-name Message:

Mantis: This is the same no-name moron that I traded quips with below. He/she isn't worth the effort. His/her typical ploy is to drag the conversation away from the topic at hand. In this case, the moron should know that the 'audits' of non-profit organizations are PUBLIC and therefore the 'professionalism' of EV would be a PUBLISHED fact, IF they were ever audited. Laundered money is one of the hardest things to track, cash doantions are almost impossible to track. HOWEVER, when the money starts coming in from VISA withdrawals..... now THAT money is tracked and will have to be accounted for. This tactical error on M's part should be very interesting. Still, money laundering is hard to track, even then. Witness the FBI (and others) spending the time they do just trying to track the funds of KNOWN drug dealers and other criminals that they KNOW are criminals. It's diffcult even when they KNOW what they are looking for. But, of course, our little moron won't acknowledge this simple fact...... he/she will go on and on about how EV is so above-board, when, in fact, he/she doesn't know a damned thing and won't open their eyes wide enough to realize that mansions-in-malibu, jets and mercedes don't just magically appear (despite hollywood's assumptions to the contrary). Now the moron wants us to believe in 'spontaneous generation.....' he he he :-)

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Date: Wed, Jan 26, 2000 at 02:06:37 (GMT) From: Mantis Email: None To: Mike Subject: It's just the no-name Message:

Yes. A gutless no-name guru shit eater who still hides under a blanket and dreams of lila! I love chatting with the type!

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Date: Thurs, Jan 27, 2000 at 06:19:54 (GMT) From: What a Charming fellow Email: None To: Mantis Subject: Guess you can't... Message:

...think of something intellegent to say, huh?

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Date: Thurs, Jan 27, 2000 at 21:05:50 (GMT) From: Mantis Email: None To: What a Charming fellow Subject: Guess you can't... Message:

Charming fellow wrote: ...think of something intellegent to say, huh? Mantis responds: What a profound, inciteful, and well thought out retort! Two other posts on this thread call for disclosure of ev books. Dare you ask your precious maharaji to open his empire up to public scrutiny? ps Guess you don't know how to spell intelligent. pps I wasn't talking to you anyway, peckerwood.

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Date: Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 12:12:34 (GMT) From: JHB Email: None To: Mantis Subject: seek help, my friend Message:

JHB responded: No, he/she is probably not on the payroll - just conditioned to be incapable of thinking, speaking or writing any criticism of Maharaji. This has been demonstrated here several times as the best test of a cult member. John the formerly brainwashed.

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Date: Mon, Jan 24, 2000 at 19:39:05 (GMT) From: JHB Email: None To: Roger eDrek Subject: How Many Satellites? Message:

the Really Big Show costs $100k for the satellite Roger, I don't really want to quibble with your otherwise excellent analysis, but just to be fair (although why the hell should I?) he has to rent space on more than one satellite. For instance in Europe he's using Eutelsat I think which covers just Europe. So to cover the whole world he would have to rent space on lots of satellites. Anyone know more details? John.

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Date: Mon, Jan 24, 2000 at 20:05:06 (GMT) From: hamzen Email: None To: JHB/RD Subject: Jean-Michel Needed Message:

Except with the figures that jean-michel posted, (his information was quite detailed,) the cost was much less than 100,000 main costs. On the other side of the coin this is going to be monthly. If the numbers keep dropping......Remember only 2,500 on the mailing list in the US of One real, never had a doubt about gm in her life, premie that I know, didn't go. As a side issue I asked her if none of the money stuff, such as those lovely, excuse-me-while-I-puke, engraved with his specially designed coat-of-arms goblets in the Visions International catalogue (definately worth checking out), no videos for sale of the satellite events, etc didn't cause just a smidgeon of a question mark. Interesting semi-embarrassed reaction. When someone that gung-ho starts thinking, you know he's got massive problems. Wouldn't mind seeing your figures adjusted for fast drop-off in attendance as well Roger. Also one of those programs, I think the Miami one, only had 2,500 attendance, of which over 1,000 were from Europe

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Date: Mon, Jan 24, 2000 at 19:55:44 (GMT) From: Roger eDrek™ Email: None To: JHB Subject: Excellent question Message:

Excellent point. Indeed the Satellite Gambit is being test marketed in Europe first. Perhaps for the reason that one satellite has adequate coverage for the areas where the vast number of premies live. Perhaps, for the U.S. he might need two or even three Satellites. Also might depend on which Satellite operation you're going with. Some of the new satellites run in lower geo-synched orbits and have a smaller footprint. Others are higher and have a much larger footprint. There's all sorts of interesting stuff about satellites and the frequencies, power of the signal and the maximum orbit height. The higher the frequency the more power is needed and typically a lower geo-synched orbit and vice-a-versa. Maybe I know what I'm talking about, but I'll have to call my Ex-Premie friend at M.I.T. Oh, hell, I'll just call vegetarian Craig McCaw. From one vegetarian to another, I'm sure he'll tell me. Yes, my numbers could be off because I'm basing it on the one satellite with a two hour block of time that 'someone' says is $100,000. We really don't know how valid this number is. It could be more or it could be less. We should be able to research this and find out. Unless there is a lot of smoke filled backroom negotiated pricing going on in that industry we should be able to get a fairly decent number. Really, I personally believe that with Maharaji's super deluxe studio, a sunk cost, that the only major cost is the Satellite system.

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Date: Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 05:35:51 (GMT) From: la-ex Email: None To: Roger eDrek™ Subject: Excellent question Message:

Regarding that $100,000.00/2 hr. time block that I mentioned, that was completely up for scrutiny, as it was mentioned to me by a premie who heard it through the visions grapevine... If that figure was actually quoted to premies, I think it is a vastly overblown figure that is probably being floated in order to give premies a large figure to think about, so that there $20-30 donations seems to make sense.. It's very interesting that the only word on expenses for the video feed is that it is extremely expensive, but that they refuse to state what the actual hard costs are, so that people could see where their money is actually being spent... I know that some people requested that info, but were just told that it was very expensive.... Once again, I think $100,000.00 is way high, and it would not be hard to figure out what the real costs would be.. One figure is that about 8,000 people watched a weekend video during the summer. Another figure is that they are hoping to get about $480/yr. from all of those people on a regular basis from now on.. If you figure approx. $500/yr times 8,000, that would be about $4 million/yr. or so..

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Date: Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 06:16:28 (GMT) From: CD Email: None To: la-ex Subject: Excellent question Message:

>Once again, I think $100,000.00 is way high, and it would not be hard to figure out what the real costs would be.. Go figure it then. Should be interesting to hear the real facts.

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Date: Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 06:57:02 (GMT) From: Roger eDrek™ Email: drek@oz.net To: CD Subject: That's the high tech black box Message:

Come on, CD, you yourself know how the high tech black box works. Isn't that our trade secret? Only we, the wizards know how to do that stuff. Likewise, when Elan Vital tells people who might question how much does the Satellite Broadcast really cost they just answer with 'very expensive' thinking and really knowing that very few people have the inclination to check it out. Heck, that's like talking to the government or something really fancy. I can't do that. CD, I bet it isn't that hard to find out and, goddamn it I will. What do you wanna bet, CD? Hello, this is Roger Drek from Drek Productions. Yes, I'm an independent producer from the Silicon Valley and my Internet startup company is interested in leasing some satellite time. What can you tell me? Oh, I think that I'd be interested in some off-peak time, say, on a Sunday. Oh, really. Well, that's quite reasonable. And if I was to do a pay-per-view even less. Hmmm? And if I did my own billing for the pay-per-view? Oh, that's great. I'm busy, but I'll have an answer within one week.

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Date: Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 06:02:12 (GMT) From: recent ex Email: None To: la-ex Subject: Why a pre-recorded broadcast Message:

A question for Rawat & Co.: Why add on the expense of a satellite broadcast for a pre-recorded video? It would have been cheaper, much cheaper according to Elan Vital, to just send it out. Why is it better for it to be a satellite broadcast, is there some spiritual benefit to it? It used to be said that premies should get together to be in the company of truth. The first satellite broadcast was live, and it was played up that it was live. Now they are pre-recorded. Sounds like bait-and-switch.

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Date: Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 10:25:18 (GMT) From: Anon Email: None To: recent ex Subject: Why a pre-recorded broadcast Message:

Anon responded: No,no it's much simpler than all of you think! Listen... Maharaji has some new toys and he wants to play with them. He has a music studio, hence the fact that all the music is now either produced by him or his family. Why should he let all those impoverished 40-50 something premie musicians have a look in! Anyway they've now got Elan Vital's New Age label to earn their fortunes from - it is some concession for the fact they are now somewhat redundant- it may not earn them much money but it will keep them happily occupied. Also he now has his own Video Editing System..probably run on that most useful of mankind's ideas.. the beloved Apple Macintosh -(at a guess). Why can't he be allowed to have fun at the expense of consenting adults? It's his message after all, and he wants to do everything himself from home. What's the matter with that? After all, it's kind of tiresome having to put up with other people's ideas of what constitutes a good edit or what is a good tune or even what is a good Satsang for that matter! He is an artist after all. Did Van Gogh allow other painters to splatter their ideas on his canvas? ruining the autonomy? the singular meaning of his work? Did Beethoven invite Salieri to contribute a few of his own phrases in the middle of a symphony? No. He did his own perfect thing. He likes what he does and does what he likes. His creativity is much appreciated and it is very important that those who recogognise the enormous value of his work supoport him to realise his mastery in all areas of life. His videos are a work of art and whether they are pre-recorded or live is of no consequence. The expense? Hang worrying about the expense! He has got loftier things to get on with than that. Why, it is the job of the premies to address that problem. They are responsible for supplying him with the tools he needs to create masterpieces. If their fundraising activities give rise to raised eyebrows then it is not his fault, is it? The Lotus lives above the stagnant filth of the Maya. He uses all the technology that smelly old mankind has thoughtfully spent (a)eons evolving, but owes nothing to mankind for it's gifts to him. Quite the opposite in fact. Mankind owes him everything and you complainers should all shut it!

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Date: Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 22:44:44 (GMT) From: Roger eDrek™ Email: drek@oz.net To: Anon Subject: ***BEST*** Message:

***Best*** Great post, Anon!

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Date: Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 10:07:38 (GMT) From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: recent ex Subject: Sendind tapes' cost Message:

Is very high. Visions has been sending tapes all over North America for a decade almost, for 'screening' i.e. showing on video 'events'. I'd say the cost for 1 tape is about 10 $, including duplication and shipment. Fees not included. For 1 community only. And Visions made an average of 13 new videos a month for many years. Make some calculation. Video tapes have been sent to every community, at least 1 copy, 2 or 3 copies for big communities. Then it gets much more expensive for non English speaking countries. They had to send Betacam masters (about 100 $ each copy, plus regular VHS copies for the translators to prepare their translation). Then each one of these countries had to buy Betacam machines (or rent a studio - very expensive) to record their translation, duplicate copies, etc. The actual cost of a translated copy was about 25 $ in France, fees not included. Same thing for spain, portugal, many african countries, Indian dialects, Chinese etc. The overhead expenses were huge. Now I see the controversy is still going on reg the satellite's costs. I told you it's very cheap. A few thousands for each broadcast. Check with a US company !

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Date: Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 07:35:29 (GMT) From: Rapt Pre-ex observers Email: None To: this thread Subject: Great stuff Message:

This thread is very interesting and is the forum at its best. good ol Nuts and bolts exchange instead of emotional slinging. Our compliments.

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Date: Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 12:21:37 (GMT) From: JHB Email: None To: Rapt Pre-ex observers Subject: Great stuff Message:

JHB responded: Does your name suggest you are currently on the fence? If so, you may be interested in this test of being a member of a cult. Are you capable of expressing any criticism of Maharaji here on the forum? Anything at all. Try it! It's interesting. No premie has managed to do it yet! John.

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Date: Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 16:36:46 (GMT) From: Rapt Pre ex Observers Email: None To: JHB Subject: Great stuff Message:

Dear JHB 'Members of the Cult' is not our post. Our small group of Pre-exs have assorted Non-pre-ex spouses ect. In order to preserve domestic peace, we have agreed to only lurk and not participate in your survey. It took us an hour to agree on the wording that one. However, we catch most of what goes on here! Regards R.P.E.O

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Date: Wed, Jan 26, 2000 at 15:27:05 (GMT) From: Brian Email: brian@tigerriver.com To: Rapt Pre ex Observers Subject: Great stuff Message:

I don't suppose you could share how you all came together? Sounds like it would be an interesting story. I'm picturing you all meeting after you each had to leave a program to laugh out loud :)

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Date: Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 17:22:15 (GMT) From: JHB Email: brauns@dircon.co.uk To: Rapt Pre ex Observers Subject: Great stuff Message:

Dear RPEO's, I am always aware when posting here that there are certain to be lurkers with different opinions about Maharaji. I therefore try to keep my posts calm and clear, even though I occasionally get a bit 'strong' when debating. I hope though that I've made a positive contribution to the forum:-) All the best with your observing, and good luck with your personal relationships. John.

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Date: Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 12:47:55 (GMT) From: memeber of cult Email: None To: JHB Subject: Anything at all? Message:

I don't like the way he combs his hair, and he doesn't answer my letters.

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Date: Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 15:31:06 (GMT) From: Ms. K Email: None To: memeber of cult Subject: Anything at all? Message:

Ms. K responded: Short, succinct, and VERY funny :). Hope you keep posting.

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Date: Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 13:23:15 (GMT) From: JHB Email: None To: memeber of cult Subject: Anything at all? Message:

Excellent! You're well on your way out:-)

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Date: Mon, Jan 24, 2000 at 15:03:54 (GMT) From: Happy Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Report from India Message:

Hi everyone. I just came back from a one month stay in India (partly business, partly vacation). I had the opportunity to spend two days with India's most famous rationalist and sceptic, the 'anti-guru' B. Premanand, who is the convener of the journal 'Indian Sceptic'. A legendary person in India. He has made probably more than anybody else in order to bust gurus, in fact, he has devoted his whole life to it (he is 70 now). There has been several attempts on his life, especially by Sai Baba's goons. He is an absolutely remarkable person. Very brave, very tough, with an extremely sharp intellect. I asked him what he knew about M. His first response was interesting: 'You mean the fat boy who got busted for smuggling jewellery?' That was actually his only image of M at first. That is, the old story from 1972, when M took his first bunch of followers to India in the jumbo jets, and got caught in the airport for his attempt to illegally bring money and jewellery into the country. That was the only time that M really made headlines in India. Then, he remembered a few things more: That M was known to have lights behind his chair, directed so that he appeared to have a halo around his head. And further, after some thinking, he recollected that there had been some kind of split between M and his brother - he thought they had 'divided' the empire between them, so that Satpal kept the Indian devotees, and Prempal the Westerners. I told him about the conflict between the two brothers, and asked him if he could find out details about the legal battle between them. He promised to make a try. He felt it shouldn't be impossible, since it all should be in the records. Then, he said, that M is really only small fry, a nothing in India. Nobody really knows about him. So much for that claim that M is a success in India! The biggest problem is really Sai Baba, who counts up to 90 million followers, among them high governmental officials including the prime minister and the chief of justice. With deep mafia connections, murder cases (6 killed in his bed room in 1992, among them two of Sai Baba's homosexual lovers) and the police silenced the whole thing. Sai Baba is in fact one of the most influential persons in the country, and really very, very dangerous. He had connections to Aum Shinrikyo too: according to Premanand's information, Aum Shinrikyo tried to buy uranium from Russia via the Indian mafia and Sai Baba. According to some, they had actually already paid, but Sai Baba had not yet delivered, when the sarin gas killings occured in Tokyo. After that, Sai Baba chickened out and did not want contact with them in order to avoid bad publicity. Still, Japanese shaktipat-members keep coming to Sai Baba's ashram to collect the money back, but they are effectively stopped by Sai Baba's connections within the police force, and not let in. Incredible story! Of course, I have not seen actual proof to back up this information, but he appeared well informed and definitely seemed to know what he was talking about. Also Amritanananda Mayee, in the West known as Guru Amma, is a problem. Her own brother, who critized her, was killed. There has supposedly been other murders in connection with her ashram, too. Some twenty years ago, she played 'possessed' in a village together with 22 other girls, and collected money from gullible people. They got caught by the police, and she went underground for years, until she reappeared as Guru Amma. She has connections to, and the support of, Sai Baba, too. Anyway, I won't get into more details about other 'gooroos', since that would be a little OT, but it was extremely interesting to talk to B. Premamand. My main point, however, concerns our common headache, Mr. Prem Pal Singh Rawat, and it confirms what I actually already knew from before: if M has failed to make a 'spiritual' impact in the West, well, he is even less known in India.

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Date: Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 00:57:18 (GMT) From: Anon Email: None To: Happy Subject: Report from India Message:

Very interesting report Happy. There was a programme on the TV here a while back, profiling this excellent fellow Premanand. Iwas very impressed with his modus operandi. He was filmed travelling about India with a team of helpers, swaning into villages in some old bus and putting on a 'guru show'. He would assemble the villagers and do all the usual magic tricks that other gurus often do. (as proof of their powers before they milk everyone for as much cash as poss. and move on to the next village) Finally he would take great pains to show them exactly how it was all done, thus releasing the astonished and delighted onlookers from the delusion that there was any magic going on. The crowd looked so pleased!They had obviously suffered a lot from these wandering guru types. They must get so much of that bullshit there. Really I feel dreadfully sorry for people who have to live their lives prey to all these stupid quacks. It's very unfortunate that the proliferation of these parasites is embedded in their culture as being the norm and it is seen almost as an asset by some. Premanand is doing a great job, bless him. The more I learn about such cultures the more I see the need to stamp out the religious con-men of the world. They are worse than politicians because they use people's natural desire to know God to ensnare them. India is often painted as a wonderful place of great mystical heritage etc. Some Indians seem to think their country is in some way especially spiritual above others. (I guess that all nations flatter themselves in this respect at some point in their history) Even M clearly believes that all the Perfect Masters 'traceable thus far' were from his blessed continent alone. Thank God that there are some natives of that land who are prepared to tackle the crooks that are corrupting the fabric of their society. Maharaji may be indeed a relatively small player over there. It is amusing that Premanand's few memories of M should include the bizarre story of him smuggling jewels. I say bizzarey since I was told (admittedly by premies) that what happened was this:The Jumbo Jet from India to London had a bunch of Indian women on board who put all their jewellery in one suitcase and in the confusion at UK Customs, some newspaper reporter erroneously proclaimed that it was M's attempt to smuggle jewellery! Does anyone have any more info about that incident out of interest?

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Date: Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 09:58:00 (GMT) From: Happy Email: None To: Anon, Way, Robyn, P-man Subject: Report from India Message:

Thanks for your comments! Premanand is indeed doing a marvellous job. He is travelling about 300 days a year, from village to village, showing people how yogis and gurus are doing their tricks! He can perform exactly the same 'miracles' as Sai Baba... I saw him doing several of Sai Baba's favorites, and I also saw young children whom he had taught performing these. It is really required in a country such as India. In my opinion, if there were such a thing as a Nobel Prize for promoting common sense in the world, he'd be a very good candidate. I have a copy of the film you mention, Anon, and also, Way, a copy of the film, in which Sai Baba is clearly seen to be cheating. A shortened version of it is in fact accessible on the net. Robyn, thanks for your kind well-wishing about my family. In fact, my older daughter is now staying in an ashram in India, the whereabouts I do not know, and I have not been able to find out. And Powerman, once more, I apologize for my formulation, I realize that it could be read as you suggest. Once more, it was not my intention. To me, anybody's sexual orientation is his or her private issue. The problem with Sai Baba is that he claims to be celibate, while, in fact, he's having sex with young boys from the school connected to his ashram in Puttaparthi. This is common knowledge, they are referred to as his 'form boys'. There is plenty of information about it avaliable. Jagdeo is peanuts in comparison. If the boys agree, it's ok, but there are also reports suggesting that they are more or less 'forced' into these relationships, and they dare not say no, because the free school they get at the ashram is so important to them and their parents - and also, because Sai Baba is a very powerful and dangerous person. I suggest you to read the Indian Sceptic, which presents these matters quite clearly. There is also a book by a former disciple, Tall Brooks, I think his name is. Furthermore, David Lane's Neural Surfer has presented information about Sai Baba's (sexual and other) habits.

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Date: Wed, Jan 26, 2000 at 00:08:00 (GMT) From: Powerman Email: None To: Happy Subject: Report from India Message:

Thanks for that, Happy. Obviously it isn't okay for a guru or anyone to molest children and it isn't okay for a guru or anyone in any kind of power position to use it to obtain sex from anyone. It's also hypocritical for someone who preaches celibacy to be partying down with multiple lovers.

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Date: Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 15:40:40 (GMT) From: Ms. K Email: None To: Happy Subject: Report from India Message:

Dear Happy - Thank you for a most interesting and informative post. I particularly liked hearing what Mr. Premananand had to say about Maharaji: I asked him what he knew about M. His first response was interesting: 'You mean the fat boy who got busted for smuggling jewellery?' Mr. Premanand sounds like a very courageous and - as you say - very sensible person. If you do hear more from him re M, I'd be interested to hear it, and I'm sure lots of other people here would too. Also, more accounts of your experiences in India would be welcome. I hope you are able to locate your daughter. Take care.

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Date: Mon, Jan 24, 2000 at 22:29:12 (GMT) From: Loaf Email: None To: Happy Subject: Sai Baba's claim to fame Message:

Sai baba has big hair. The presidential candidate with the best hair always wins. M is small fry in the afro stakes.

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Date: Mon, Jan 24, 2000 at 22:53:18 (GMT) From: Mike Email: None To: Loaf Subject: 'Their' claim to fame Message:

Loaf: Sai Baba makes holy 'dirt' fall out of canisters and M squeezes eyeballs...... I fail to see any real difference.... snicker, snicker :-)

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Date: Mon, Jan 24, 2000 at 18:39:03 (GMT) From: Robyn Email: None To: Happy Subject: Report from India Message:

Dear Happy, Intersting stuff, thanks. It all just makes you want to devote yourslef to these enlightened souls, eh? I prefer to do my own thing spiritually. I know what I feel and that I am not ripping myself off! I think of you from time to time and hope someday your family will be reunited. Love, Robyn

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Date: Mon, Jan 24, 2000 at 16:11:30 (GMT) From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Happy Subject: What about other RSSM masters? Message:

Thank you for your feedback ! And what about the other Radhasoami/Sant Mat 'masters' ? They claim millions of followers in Northern India. Are these followers 'real' followers, or merely people going from one holy place to the next one, to receive each guru's blessings, as it's still so popular in India ?

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Date: Mon, Jan 24, 2000 at 15:33:06 (GMT) From: Powerman Email: None To: Happy Subject: Report from India Message:

By mentioning that two of the six people killed in Sai Baba's room were his 'homosexual lovers', is that somehow to say that because his lovers were homosexual that that makes it even more corrupt? If not, then why mention it? It just seemed like a weird thing to mention in the context of pointing out just how corrupt someone is. Not that there's anything wrong with it.

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Date: Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 11:20:45 (GMT) From: Power Ranger Email: None To: Powerman Subject: Report from India Message:

Hey Dildoface, Was your intent to deflect attention from the essence of Happy's post?

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Date: Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 18:52:04 (GMT) From: Mu Email: None To: Power Ranger Subject: Report from India Message:

Hey that's dildoface sweetie to you. Leave my little anal retentive PC Powerman alone! Pout... I know he wants me, not you!:-o And yes, if it is any of your business, he is so distracting!

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Date: Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 23:41:20 (GMT) From: Powerman Email: None To: Mu Subject: Report from India Message:

Thank you Mu, you homophobe.

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Date: Mon, Jan 24, 2000 at 18:11:58 (GMT) From: Runamok Email: None To: Powerman Subject: Report from India Message:

There are a few likely scenarios that make the 'lover' status of SaiBob's victims relevant. They could be members of a supposedly celibate order, or Sai doesn't want them talking to the press<---good one. Because these guys often preach celibacy while getting all they can (like M'rage preaching good conduct within society while cheating on his own wife to the max), their private behavior in its hypocrisy becomes public. By the way, there is a very famous film of Sai Baba sneaking a materialized object out his clothes. I think it's from a congressional assembly too. I've seen in on TV.

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Date: Mon, Jan 24, 2000 at 19:40:29 (GMT) From: Powerman Email: None To: Runamok Subject: Report from India Message:

How does specifying homosexuality relate in any way to Sai Baba, his cult, its requirement of celibacy or anything else? You've lost me.

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Date: Mon, Jan 24, 2000 at 17:38:29 (GMT) From: Mu Email: None To: Powerman Subject: Report from India Message:

Powerman wrote: 'It just seemed like a weird thing to mention in the context of pointing out just how corrupt someone is. Not that there's anything wrong with it.' Mu says: 'So, there is nothing wrong with being corrupt?' Bad grammer!

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Date: Mon, Jan 24, 2000 at 19:43:00 (GMT) From: Powerman Email: None To: Mu Subject: Report from India Message:

No, you dimwit. It's a takeoff from the Seinfeld show referring to the episode dealing with homosexuality.

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Date: Mon, Jan 24, 2000 at 19:46:37 (GMT) From: Mu Email: None To: Powerman Subject: That was too easy! HAHAHAHA... Message:

Still, bad grammer!

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Date: Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 17:31:12 (GMT) From: Michael Email: None To: Mu Subject: That was too easy! HAHAHAHA... Message:

Er, Mu, I think you mean 'poor grammar.' Correct spelling is important, too.

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Date: Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 18:20:24 (GMT) From: Mu Email: None To: Michael Subject: That was too easy! HAHAHAHA... Message:

Yah! Hey, why isn't phonics spelled the way it sounds? (foniks) 'Sides, I just find Powerman so cute! Yummy!

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Date: Mon, Jan 24, 2000 at 15:49:31 (GMT) From: Happy Email: None To: Powerman Subject: Report from India Message:

nope, it was not my intention. Sorry if you understood it that way.

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Date: Mon, Jan 24, 2000 at 16:41:24 (GMT) From: Powerman Email: None To: Happy Subject: Report from India Message:

You're 'sorry if I understood it that way'? What the fuck? How else would someone understand it? Oh yeah, right, Happy, just dismiss it really fast and no one will notice.

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Date: Mon, Jan 24, 2000 at 23:59:59 (GMT) From: Anon Email: None To: Powerman Subject: Report from India Message:

I'm not sure you should jump to the conclusion that Happy mentioned the fact that 2 of the 6 killed were homosexuals in order to imply homosexuality was in itself a corrupt. It sounds like you are exercising some tortured politically correct thinking. Happy has replied that was not his intention to imply that, and I don't see why you should not accept his reply. Besides, if you think about it, if a reporter says (presumably Happy is reiterating some news report, unless he was a witness)... '6 (were) killed in his bed room in 1992, among them two of Sai Baba's homosexual lovers' one could say that the information about the gender of the 2 is quite simply included to describe the fact that they were men. Also, registering the sexual orientation of the murder victims no more implies that the reporter is anti-homosexual than mentioning they were 'Norwegian' would imply that the reporter was anti-Norwegian or rascist. The mere fact that you assumed that the sexual orientation of the victims was mentioned in order to denigrate Sai Baba, itself raises a question about your attitude towards homosexuality. It is itself homophobic to assume that the only reason to mention homosexuality is in order to denigrate.

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Date: Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 01:37:46 (GMT) From: Powerman Email: None To: Anon Subject: Report from India Message:

Anon, I'm not very politically correct so I don't think that is where my objection comes from. I also don't think it's homophobic to question the mention of a cult leader's involvement in homosexuality when making a case about his corruption. I think it's fair to assume Happy isn't reiterating a news report. His post indicates the information is from his conversation with an anti-cult advocate. If you re-read his post you'll notice when he started writing about Sai Baba, he stopped loosely quoting the anti-cult advocate's statements and wrote in his own demeanor. As such, it is fair to address Happy as the owner of these statements. But regardless of who thought it up, it's questionable to mention that two of six people killed in a guru's room were homosexuals. It's relevant that six people were killed in his room and it's relevant that two were his lovers but it's irrelevant that they were homosexuals. I'm not saying it definitely indicates bigotry; I'm saying it's suspicious. That's why I asked Happy why he mentioned that. It seemed even more suspicious that he was dismissive about it, as though it doesn't count.

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Date: Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 03:04:41 (GMT) From: Anon Email: None To: Powerman Subject: Report from India Message:

Do I sense that you are about to gently back down on this? I think it would be wise to! Just in case you're not... Gay is scandalous because there's nothing most guys despise more. I trust you are not counting yourself as being like most guys. It's relevant that six people were killed in his room and it's relevant that two were his lovers but it's irrelevant that they were homosexuals. Why should those 3 facts have differing degrees of relevance? By the same logic you could also say that it was irrelevant to have mentioned that '2 were his lovers' or indeed that '6' people were killed for that matter. Why didn't he just say 'several' people? Why do you think it is it relevant that 2 were his lovers??? Arguably very little of it is relevant to the argument that Sai Baba is corrupt. But of course it is, as Gerry pointed out, quite a spicey detail. It seems to boil down that you were suspicious that the mentioning of homosexuality at all in this context reflects badly on Happys attitude towards homosexuality. I still suspect, contrary to your suspicion, that a) Happy is in fact passing on faithfully what was originally started life as a news story b) It is impossible to (and is futile to) sensibly judge whether the spirit of the news report was in any way homophobic, and it is far more likely that the inclusion was for general interest. c) Happy is not homophobic d) Babas homosexual adventures were probably as corrupt and messy as all his other affairs. I think that's about all I've got to say about this now.

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Date: Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 04:45:04 (GMT) From: Powerman Email: None To: Anon Subject: Report from India Message:

No, I didn't have any plans on backing down. It could be relevant that people were killed in his room if he was involved in causing the murders. It's relevant that he had lovers if he was claiming to be celibate and it's relevant that he had two lovers because that makes it a joke that he claimed to be celibate. It also points out that he was partying down and claiming to be a spiritual leader (that may or may not disqualify him from being a spiritual leader but for some it would make it worth questioning). Homophobic is really not the right word for this. What was worth questioning here is bigotry.

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Date: Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 01:59:14 (GMT) From: gerry Email: None To: Powerman Subject: Report from India Message:

I'm saying it's suspicious. That's why I asked Happy why he mentioned that. It seemed even more suspicious that he was dismissive about it, as though it doesn't count. What are you so suspicious about Powerman? You're making me paranoid... Besides, everyone knows it's a much spicier read or chat if the copulators were homosexual, sells more papers, makes for a better gossip, that sort of thing.

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Date: Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 02:14:14 (GMT) From: Powerman Email: None To: gerry Subject: Report from India Message:

Gerry, Gerry, Gerry, You're mistaking homosexual for lesbian. Lesbian sells not gay. Lesbian sells because guys want to watch women have sex together. Gay is scandalous because there's nothing most guys despise more. And what's with this word 'copulators'. Is that what you do, Gerry, you copulate? Do you wear a hospital gown when you do it? Do you study graphs and charts while copulating? Jesus, what a chimpanzee.

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Date: Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 03:48:50 (GMT) From: gerry Email: None To: Powerman Subject: India Report/English Scandal Message:

gerry responded: @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ Yes, I agonized over 'copulators' too, but in the end I decided to leave it in. One thing you're overlooking is that scandalous sells big time. I believe gay as well as lesbian. Well, at least over in England where the national pastime for men is wearing women's underwear and telling their best friends...

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Date: Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 02:31:23 (GMT) From: Mu Email: None To: Powerman Subject: Report from India Message:

It's ok to be sucha homophobe. You can't help it.

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Date: Mon, Jan 24, 2000 at 16:34:16 (GMT) From: Way Email: None To: Happy Subject: Report from India Message:

Thanks, Happy, for your fascinating report. Interesting that the rationalist would have a name like 'Premanand.' I think he and his colleagues should be aware that M. is currently making progress via satellite in India. Unforunately, more people will have access to M.'s satellite message than access to the Internet websites against him. (Is my impression correct that few people have Internet access there?) Gurus survive when they can control information, and our best weapon against them is information. Did you stay healthy? Did you visit Dharamsala and the Tibetans in exile?

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Date: Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 17:28:08 (GMT) From: Agasp Mom Email: None To: thread Subject: What a stupid arguement Message:

About how appropriate it is to mention the Homosexual lovers in the post above. So its NOT the right of Babas devotee parents to have pre knowledge of Babas sexual orientation before they take their young kids off to a blissfull month in his ashram? Get real

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Date: Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 18:20:05 (GMT) From: Powerman Email: None To: Agasp Mom Subject: What a stupid arguement Message:

No, Agasp Mom, it isn't anyone's right to know anyone's sexual orientation.

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Date: Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 20:34:33 (GMT) From: Robyn Email: None To: Powerman Subject: What a stupid arguement Message:

Robyn responded: I just have to say that I think it is a goal to be accepted in whatever sexual orientation you live by. There use to be pictures up on NYC subways of all different couples kissing, different races, hetero or homo sexual. The ad campain was to put it out there so you could see it and so not be so shocked and hopefully more accepting of different was of living. To make it more open yet less a point of focus.

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Date: Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 23:42:48 (GMT) From: Powerman Email: None To: Robyn Subject: What a stupid arguement Message:

Yes, right on for dumping bigotry.

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Date: Wed, Jan 26, 2000 at 00:02:28 (GMT) From: Robyn Email: None To: Powerman Subject: What a stupid arguement Message:

You may or may not be aware that I am not good with sarcasm so I don't know what you mean, what I said just is. It is.

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Date: Wed, Jan 26, 2000 at 00:29:38 (GMT) From: Powerman Email: None To: Robyn Subject: What a stupid arguement Message:

It wasn't sarcastic. It means I agree with what you said.

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Date: Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 19:35:25 (GMT) From: Agasp Mom Email: None To: Powerman Subject: Good Lord Message:

Of course you are right in one way. I think sexual preferences are way too much in peoples faces. Gay men seem to seem to revolve around the identity question- at least to the media. Maybe it is too much focus on sex or rather talking about it. But I do not agree that young boys would who may be in the situation, (IE: brought to the ashrom by their parents), of being sexually exploited by Guru groupies, should be anybodys fair game because there 'is nothing wrong with homosexuality'. Ok homsexuality does not convert to phedophile, but isnt that the parents job to evaluate the situation they have brought the children into -for the children until they are of age to choose? Especially in a sloppy situation of an ashram when sexual activity may be percieved as an form of puja. In case you are not up on such things, sex as a form of meditation/worship goes with Eastern practices as a general rule. You cant tell me that if you were booking a reservation for an ashram with your child that you wouldnt appreciate being aware of the extended puja possibilities. Or if you are a gay parent yourself, that you would not appreciate knowing, in the same situation, that the ashramm groupies were demonstativly prejudice against gay parents and their offspring, and their puja could include heterosexual experiences for your children. You seem to be so PC that you have lost touch with real life. Agasp Mom

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Date: Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 23:59:45 (GMT) From: Powerman Email: None To: Agasp Mom Subject: Good Lord Message:

Or if you are a gay parent yourself, that you would not appreciate knowing, in the same situation, that the ashramm groupies were demonstativly prejudice against gay parents and their offspring, and their puja could include heterosexual experiences for your children. Are you serious? Are you saying that gay parents don't want their children molested by heterosexuals but would be okay if they were molested by homosexuals? This is insane. Claiming I'm being too politically correct is a red herring.

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Date: Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 23:48:14 (GMT) From: Powerman Email: None To: Agasp Mom Subject: Good Lord Message:

I think if you need to know if your guru is homosexual then you need to know if your children's grade school teacher is homosexual. You don't need to know that. You may need to know if they're convicted child molesters or felons but not their sexual orientation.

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Date: Wed, Jan 26, 2000 at 13:00:57 (GMT) From: Agasp Email: None To: Powerman Subject: Good Lord Message:

Now powerman, you are twisting my intent. The possible danger of child molesting is acute in a ashram situation, where devotion can take the form of sexual initiation. I said that it is the parents responsibility to scout out possible dangers, and not to fluff it off because of some PC propaganda that 'gay is ok..so whats there to worry about.' And how could you be so thick as to think I was saying that about gay parents being ok with homosexual molestation but not heter and vice versa You are one very twisted up dude. The thought that there are people that reason like you is actually frightening. A school teacher is not as likely to practice sex yoga on children as a means to glorify the school principal. (WARNING:metaphor) Again, the parents have the responsibilty to discern on the behalf of the child--until the child is of age to choose. The discussion started (I think) by your reaction to the press release stating that Babas homosexual lovers were charred. I think you said that they shouldnt have printed it like that. I thought it was a good thing to know, in light of the fact that Baba is probably a sicko in general, and especially in a ashram situation with Kundalini flying, it would be a place to watch the kids. This is parent common sense. Try this: You are in a pc correct video parlor and your young child wanders into the back section where homosexual child porn vieos are screening. There are some men around obviously enjoying themselve.Do you take your child out of it- or do you go get a sanwich round the corner cause gay is ok? There are two thing going on in the parlour. One is the pron and one is the gay slant to the porn. For either reason, the parent acts on behalf of the child.

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Date: Wed, Jan 26, 2000 at 16:07:08 (GMT) From: Powerman Email: None To: Agasp Subject: Good Lord Message:

Okay, look, I really don't know how you find your way to the bathroom in the morning, but the point is that the sexual orientation of Sai Baba's lovers is irrelevant. There were six people killed in the room who each could have been described in many ways. It was, however, pointed out that two of the six people murdered were Sai Baba's lovers. That's relevant because a guru preaching celebacy shouldn't be having sex, much less orgies. It points to his corruption which was the point being made in Happy's post. But, it doesn't matter whether those lovers were gay or straight, black or white or Chinese, or whether they were fat or slim or rich or poor. And the thing is, Agasp Mom, and I want you to pay attention here... if you want to make a valid point that it was relevant in Happy's post that the two lovers killed in his bedroom were homosexual, you have to show some connection to why it's important or relevant. Without that, it's fair to suspect that it was mentioned to indicate that homosexuality is corrupt or adds to corruption. Your point that someone might need to know that to protect their children is invalid. All a person would need to know is that Sai Baba was accused of pedophelia. In the context of claiming that Sai Baba is corrupt it doesn't matter whether he likes little boys or little girls. Your argument is what is called 'reaching'. You're 'reaching' to try to find a way to make it relevant that Sai Baba was homosexual and it just doesn't matter when making the point he was corrupt. You are trying to make an entirely different point that is unrelated to this. Now try again, if you wish, but don't try to pass that half-assed, incomplete, muddled thinking for a solid argument.

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Date: Wed, Jan 26, 2000 at 14:21:51 (GMT) From: Robyn Email: None To: Agasp Subject: Good Lord Message:

Dear Agasp, I want to say that I do not agree with pman about the inapropriate mentioning in Happy's story of the word gay. I read the story and filled in the blank that there were improprieties involved, his being in the guru business and all. And come to find out about the child molestation element which makes it so much worse. Love, Robyn

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Date: Wed, Jan 26, 2000 at 20:34:30 (GMT) From: Agasp Email: None To: Robyn Subject: Lord help us Message:

Thanks Robyn I am not coming from a premis of defending gays-or offending them. As far as I am concerned, it is very relevant, given the situation, for the lovers orientation to be stated- if only to give prospective ashram visitors a clear picture. Pman seems to not be very objective and coming from the angle that sexual orientation is nobody elses business. I agree with him, except when in encompasses children and corruption. Adults in a position of trust that are interested in children should cause alarm. The gay aspect is part of it. Many of us fret over our own children possibly being exposed to Jag. Some of us know first hand the rampant sex current that pulses through an ashram setting in the guise of a manifestation of devotion. In that setting sex is worship. duh Gay peodiphile sadhus would be predators to children. Corrupt sex yoga initiation cannot be discounted. Advocating to not identify the dead lovers orientation is downright surgically selective prejudice cloaked in PC jargon. I still dont believe that Powerman would not apprecieate this information if he were booking into a ashram retreat with his 4 year old son. Thanks again Agasp

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Date: Wed, Jan 26, 2000 at 20:50:03 (GMT) From: Powerman Email: None To: Agasp Subject: Lord help us Message:

How silly. As though I'd be comfortable checking into an ashram with my son if its leader was a heterosexual pedophile. You're outta here.

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Date: Wed, Jan 26, 2000 at 21:58:25 (GMT) From: Asasp Email: None To: Powerman Subject: Allright thats it Message:

YOU are out of IT. You tweak what I say to fit your preference for defending your opinion. You are wrong I am right end of conversation. :-) no hard feelings. (Woops!) PS If I was Jim-like I would go over this dialogue with a fine tooth comb to prove your tweaking. I could right now but I am busy saving the world. Agasp

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Date: Wed, Jan 26, 2000 at 22:59:16 (GMT) From: Robyn Email: None To: Asasp Subject: Allright thats it Message:

Dear Asasp, I feel like when I was in 9th grade and was translating for a friend to the Bio teacher! I do think pman went way over the top on this, made a moe hill into a mountain so to speak but after thinking about the issue this had come around to I do not think it would matter if the guru was a hetero, or homo sexual pedephilla, it seems that they are often not so choosy in chosing a sex but rather an age. I don't know, I say that because of news pieces I've seen on the topic, softball coaches that are pedophiles usually have access to boys but I've seen where the only girl on the team was also victimized. There is a similar scenerio with Jegdeo(sp), boys and girls both were victimised. As far as the original mention of the gays in the guru's bedroom that were killed, I would have to ask someone who is gay, or a few people who were to get their views as I can only project myself into that postion and at best my opinion would be a guess. It is of course a selling point for an article, an eye catcher. Love, Robyn

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Date: Thurs, Jan 27, 2000 at 00:23:45 (GMT) From: Agasp Email: None To: Robyn Subject: Allright thats it Message:

I know. This has developed into a tangled cross referenced virtual thing. The Lioness in me says I dont care who gets offended. But I take your point about the media splash effect.I had thought of that too. It reminds me of some countries that tell a crime story with the race and economic level of the people involved. But I was too upset with pmans approach . I didnt get whether pman was bothered by the media exploiting the story , or if he really thought the gayness was irrlevant to babas devotees. Still Agasp

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Date: Thurs, Jan 27, 2000 at 00:46:18 (GMT) From: Robyn Email: None To: Agasp Subject: Allright thats it Message:

Dear Agasp, Yes, I can relate, I've had that mother lion thing also, there is a Joni Mitchelle song, can't remember the name of it from the For the Roses album, I think. The line is something like: 'Leaping from the boulders like a mama lion' I always loved that line. Love, Agasp

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Date: Thurs, Jan 27, 2000 at 04:09:34 (GMT) From: Mu Email: None To: Robyn and Agasp Subject: Pman is such a brute..yum! Message:

He's mine girls...:-o I know what he likes!

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Date: Wed, Jan 26, 2000 at 02:01:20 (GMT) From: Mu Email: None To: Powerman Subject: Good Lord Message:

Oh! You just keep turning me on! I like 'em big and stupid!

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Date: Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 19:42:17 (GMT) From: michael Email: None To: Agasp Mom Subject: Bravo! Well said. (nt) Message:

nt

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Date: Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 18:30:08 (GMT) From: Mu Email: None To: Powerman Subject: Hi sweetie..want me, dontcha? Message:

You are so sensitive and brave and strong! Your my type! Whatever you are is alright with me! You are my little Bonobo! You get me so hot! I just know you can help me with my 'orientation'!

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Date: Wed, Jan 26, 2000 at 00:01:05 (GMT) From: Powerman Email: None To: Mu Subject: Hi sweetie..want me, dontcha? Message:

Sorry, baby, I don't swing both ways.

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Date: Wed, Jan 26, 2000 at 02:10:24 (GMT) From: Mu Email: None To: Powerman Subject: Hi sweetie..want me, dontcha? Message:

Affection! You do care! C'mon, honey, take a walk on the wild side. You know you want to!

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Date: Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 18:05:54 (GMT) From: gerry Email: None To: Powerman Subject: I'm warning you P-Man Message:

damn small subject box... Anyway you keep this shit up and you're gonna end up in the doghouse--with me. And I control the soap...

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Date: Sun, Jan 23, 2000 at 15:47:31 (GMT) From: Test of Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Starting a New Thread Message:

New Thread

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Date: Sun, Jan 23, 2000 at 19:01:25 (GMT) From: Roger eDrek™ Email: drek@oz.net To: Test of Subject: Satellite Video $ Analysis Message:

Ok, it's just me who is unable to start a new thread. Ok, fine, then I'll just put this here. This is absolutely fantastic! What a shrewd business plan Maharaji has devised. In fact, I cannot believe the numbers that I came up with. Please go over them with a fine tooth comb and let me know if I made a mistake. Don't forget that if Maharaji can eliminate all the money spent on local halls for local video events he has the ability to capture more of that premie disposable income that goes to pay for that through increased donations or through the satellite pay per view fees. Consider that a local community has to subscribe for the videos at a cost of $400 per month. Ok, that's the extent of the monthly per community revenue that he can squeeze out of his video production. However, there are costs for the video that include travel to the city and country where the event is held. There is also the cost of the large hall for the event. Let's assume that most of those costs are covered by entrance fees and there is a little profit, too. However, let's consider the risk in a public event. The hall probably rents out for a flat fee. I'll assume that there is no additional per person fee paid to the hall. The risk, therefore, is if not enough premies show up for the public event and the fixed cost of the hall cannot be met. Thus, unless further video sales can provide substantial income the production incurred a loss. Too risky for Maharaji and Company. Also consider that Premies spend considerable amounts of cash to get to the program and hotels, meals and rental cars. So much money spent by so many premies that goes to people other than Maharaji. That's bad, very bad. Sure, now Maharaji has the trinket halls to help with the bottom line. Ok, let's say Maharaji can do at least two pre-recorded satellite events produced in his home studio while he sits next to his piano with a pack of smokes and a bottle of cognac sitting nearby. Cheap! No hall rental, no travel expenses, no luxury hotel suite for Maharaji and entourage at $2000 (estimated) or more per night. Let's say that the average premie community has 30 people who are willing to pay for two satellite videos per month at $30 each per video. Let's assume that there are anywhere from 5,000 to 10,000 premies world wide that have the disposable income to be able to afford satellite broadcasts of Maharaji. With these assumed numbers of 10,000 premies and an average community size of 30 one might assume that there are 333.33 premie communities. However, that number seems highly unlikely. More likely is the case that premies come out of the woodwork to see and hear Maharaji. However, just for fun let's assume that there are 333 premie communities capable of paying the annual Video Subscription fee of $4800. This would mean an annual revenue of $1,598,400. Remember this number! Thinking Caps On, Let's Do the Math! Assumptions: Average Community size = 30 Monthly Video Subscription fee = $400 Minimum World Wide Premies with enough $$$ to pay for Satellite Broadcasts = 5,000 Maximum World Wide Premies with enough $$$ to pay for Satellite Broadcasts = 10,000 Satellite Broadcast per view fee = $30 Legend: VS = Current Video Subscription method SB = Satellite Broadcast method Two Satellite Broadcasts Per Month Per Community: Monthly VS Take = $400 Monthly SB Take = $1800 (2 x 30 x 30) Annual VS Take = $4800 (400 x 12) Annual SB Take = $21600 (2 x 30 x 30 x 12) Annual SB Cost per Premie = $720 (2 x 30 x 12) Min Annual SB Take from 5,000 premies = $3,600,000 (2 x 30 x 12 x 5,000) Max Annual SB Take from 10,000 premies = $7,200,000 (2 x 30 x 12 x 10,000) Three Satellite Broadcasts Per Month Per Community: Monthly VS Take = $400 Monthly SB Take = $2700 (3 x 30 x 30) Annual VS Take = $4800 (400 x 12) Annual SB Take = $32400 (3 x 30 x 30 x 12) Annual SB Cost per Premie = $1080 (3 x 30 x 12) Min Annual SB Take from 5,000 premies = $ 5,400,000 (3 x 30 x 12 x 5,000) Max Annual SB Take from 10,000 premies = $10,800,000 (3 x 30 x 12 x 10,000) Holy smoke! Using the low and high extremes from our set of assumptions between $3.6 to $10.8 million per year can now go to Maharaji! Compare that to the optimistic revenue of $1,598,400 where the assumption was 333 premie communities subscribing at the tune of $4800 per anum. Decision time: which do you choose? And look at how much more money Maharaji pulls out of the communities per year $21600 vs. $4800 and $32400 vs. $4800 for two and three videos respectively. In reality the communities can reduce the amount of money they are currently spending through the elimination of local hall rental which I will assume is $2000 per month or $24,000 per year. Add the annual Video Subscription fee of $4800 and you have an annual community expense of $28800. In the case where there are two SBs per month the community would actually save $7200 ($28800 - $21600) per annum. However, in the case of three SBs per month the community would end up paying out an additional $3600 ($32400 - $28800.) The Satellite time or expense is most likely fixed. The marginal costs per paid view rapidly decreases with each additional viewer because a single fixed cost broadcast goes out to a huge, Huge, HUGE number of earthbound viewers simultaneously with no need to rent larger and larger halls. This assumes that Dish Net does not recieve any additional per-view fees or at least the negotiated per-view fees are minimal. Don't forget that Visions is collecting the money directly so this could completely cut out per-view fees for Dish Net. So, let's look at a public program. The typical ticket price for a one day or even a long weekend event has been around $30 to $50 or whatever. And Maharaji and Company will then pass the hat in an attempt to extract more money from premies. Hey, you get a great bargain if you get to see Maharaji at a long weekend program where you might see him 3 or 5 times at let's say $50. That's $10 per view. Compare that to the $30 per view for the Satellite Broadcast. Absolutely Brilliant! Maharaji has actually increased the per view price via satellite broadcasting of his image and voice.

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Date: Mon, Jan 24, 2000 at 10:04:20 (GMT) From: AJW Email: None To: Roger eDrek™ Subject: It's just an old bus. Message:

Hi Roger, You should stick your wonderfull economic analysis in your 'Best of..' (Does it make you go blind if you put your own posts up?) I think there's another angle on this. The cult's main source of income has always been donations from wealthy westerners. Although figures of the indoctrinated are well up for the some African and Asian countries, they are not as well heeled and the mainly middle class Europeans and Americans. And it's the wealthy westerners who have been dribbling steadily away for the past few years. Along with the departed goes their income. Maharaji doesn't really have a grasp on economics. He demands and the premies provide. Unfortunately the cash is running out and his demands don't seem to be correspondingly tempered, which can only cause a crisis. He has massive monthly overheads, as well as all his domestic bills, hangers on, slaves and sycophants, airport bills etc. As the cash crisis deepens, I think we'll see a variety of nutty schemes aimed at refilling the empty coffers. Premies swallow anything as long as it's for 'heem'. All the schemes, like the above, are aimed at generating an ever larger pool of cash from an ever dwindling number of followers, but I don't think we'll ever see anything as successful as the ashrams, where we lived 20 to a room on a subsistence diet, handed over our unopened wage packets every week, spent our evenings and weekends raising money with other schemes, and encouraged our secular brothers and sisters to do the same. Elan Vital is a old rickety bus, imported from India in the 60s, blowing black smoke, heading towards the edge of a cliff. The chubby bloke in the big gold hat is the driver, but he's sitting on the back seat while the passengers line up to empty their wallets and kiss his feet. Who would of thought it would have ended like this? Anth the Economic Observer and Traffic Surveyor.

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Date: Mon, Jan 24, 2000 at 18:41:27 (GMT) From: Roger eDrek™ Email: drek@oz.net To: AJW Subject: Just an old bus, but **Best** Message:

Anth and Everyone, ***Best***. The old bus heading of the cliff? Wasn't that how the UK comedy series the 'Young Ones' ended? I need to stick my Satellite Analysis where? Indeed, I get blinder and blinder everytime I add my posts to the ***Best***. Now, if that isn't humility I don't know what is. Actually, when I get the time I'll consolidate and organize the Satellite analyses that I've done and put them on the Corporate page at Roger's House of Maharaji Drek.

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Date: Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 14:52:59 (GMT) From: AJW Email: None To: Roger eDrek™ Subject: Young Ones Message:

Hi Rog' Yes, that's right. I didn't know you were a Young Ones fan. The bus going off the cliff at the end of the last episode was in itself an ironic statement. The series was named after a movie done by English Elvis lookalike Cliff Richards, in the early 60s, where a bunch of youngsters converted a bus and went to Greece and fell in love with lots of beautiful chicks but didn't shag them, cos it was the early 60s. Anyway, thats why the bus went off the cliff. Anth the Trivia ps, Rick Mayall used to live next door to one of my friends.

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Date: Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 22:50:49 (GMT) From: Roger eDrek™ Email: drek@oz.net To: AJW Subject: Young Ones Message:

AJW, somewhere we've talked about the Young Ones before. Maybe you're were not on board at that time. Didn't one of them, Rick Mayall, get into a wreck awhile ago? Rick was Vivian? Yeah, I loved the hell out of that show! The only reason to watch MTV. That's right it was on Sunday nights after some Cutting Edge show that had theme music from the band Klark Kent. Did ya catch the Young Ones episode with Motorhead? What a twisty freaky show.

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Date: Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 18:46:09 (GMT) From: CQG Email: None To: AJW Subject: That's Cliff Richard,m'lud(nt) Message:

nt

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Date: Wed, Jan 26, 2000 at 19:36:22 (GMT) From: Jacj Email: None To: Anth Subject: Live, Love , etc.etc., Message:

Dear Anth, Cliff Richard was singing the 'ammmmaaaaazzzzinggg' words of M in the 1960's. The Young Ones The Young ones, my darling we're the young ones so live, love, --------- because the young ones won't be young ones very long. Can anyone fill in the missing lines - maybe there will be more revelations

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Date: Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 15:47:07 (GMT) From: JHB Email: None To: AJW Subject: Young Ones Message:

JHB responded: Anth, That was Summer Holiday where Cliff Richard got all his workmates at the bus depot to renovate this old double-decker bus for no pay, just by singing a song. In The Young Ones, Cliff plays the son of a greedy property owner (Robert Morley?). Anyway, Cliff who falls in with these young people who use a dance hall or youth club or something that his dad wants to close down and build a supermarket or something. John the pedant

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Date: Sun, Jan 23, 2000 at 19:58:02 (GMT) From: Shifting Email: None To: Roger eDrek™ Subject: Satellite Video $ Analysis Message:

Does the dish company knows that they are a vehicle for a cult=crazy followers=death=M is a thief=etc, etc, etc..... You said: Assumptions: Average Community size = 30 Monthly Video Subscription fee = $400 Thirty average in the US is too much . I was told by instructors passing by that 10 is even a high average number in the US; this was their response when we, the organizers, were discouraged by the little amount of people who showed up at those events and all the work we had to do. The business is going bad, EV needs new ways to get the money. Most premies call the national line to go see him. Not many go to video events I had until not long a go a subscription, in case you want to know, is $270, but I got your point. It will be good for him and that's why EV is changing its ways: I agree, more money coming in from satellite's transmissions; and the premies are happy because they will spend less not having to travel. Is a business! The spoiled brat keeps asking and premies keep giving. He is the lord, u know? NOT!

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Date: Sun, Jan 23, 2000 at 21:48:53 (GMT) From: A human Email: None To: Shifting Subject: Satellite Video $ Analysis Message:

Where I live, the 'cost' to see the 'special broadcast' was $45 per person. The extra 'charge' was the cover 'venue costs and operating expenses'. Well, how special. The video itself was said to have cost a lot to make. No mention of why it cost so much. BTW in a recent video, Maharaji said 'Thank God?? Thank the Master!!'. Huh? So I should thank him and not thank God?

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Date: Mon, Jan 24, 2000 at 10:14:25 (GMT) From: Accountant Email: None To: A human Subject: Video Charges Message:

From an Elan Vital letter to UK premies about the satellite broadcast: 'This is a special broadcast and has cost a lot of money to prepare and to broadcast around the globe. To cover these costs there will be an admission charge of £20 per person, with the opportunity to re-register at local events before the broadcast, or at the broadcast itself. The amount is needed to cover our local expenses including local hall costs and VAT. It is imperative that this amount per person is paid in order for future broadcasts to be possible. However this is not a strict condition for access, as a reduced payment will be accepted if you are unemployed. To allow for this to happen, we do request that those able to do so make an additional donation over and above the £20 charge.' See how they try to squeeze every last penny with the last sentence.

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Date: Sun, Jan 23, 2000 at 22:22:01 (GMT) From: Shifting Email: None To: A human Subject: Satellite Video $ Analysis Message:

He is dying to say that you must thank him first... Why? God is great, but the one that shows you God is greater. Such a lie! I do not like him. We'll see each other again mahaha...

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Date: Sun, Jan 23, 2000 at 21:11:42 (GMT) From: Roger eDrek™ Email: drek@oz.net To: Shifting Subject: Assumptions were generous Message:

Thanks, Shifting. I figured that my assumptions for the Video Subscription (VS) model were optimistically generous. Using your numbers the business decision is even more obvious where the current VS provides even less revenue than with my optimistic values. I might hazard to guess that the average premie community when everyone comes out of the woodwork for an important meeting with a visiting dignitary or a local satellite feed might be around 30. Also, my assumption regarding the number of premies World Wide who have the disposable income to afford Satellite Broadcasts is based on recent Long Beach and Miami mega programs where let's say the attendance was somewhere between 5000 and 10000??? And some of these people travelled great distances at great expense to attend. So, the 5000 to 10000 number of premies who can afford SB might be a reasonable number and again that translates into an optimistic revenue stream going to Maharaji between $3.6 to $10.8 million per year. And that's not chickenfeed! Hell, even if the expenses were 50% at $1.8 and $5.4 million, respectively, that's more net income cash than you or I will ever see. Of course, I don't have much information on the cost side of the story, but I'm sure that they've done their homework to minimize that.

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Date: Mon, Jan 24, 2000 at 03:56:23 (GMT) From: la-ex Email: None To: Roger eDrek™ Subject: Assumptions were generous Message:

a local premie said that it costs $100,000.00 for a 2 hour time block. He said that visions must take in that amount to break even, as the costs are extremely high-this sounds like total BULLSHIT to me...

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Date: Mon, Jan 24, 2000 at 07:49:57 (GMT) From: Roger eDrek™ Email: drek@oz.net To: la-ex Subject: We can find this out Message:

There's got to be a way to find out how much satellite time costs. Can't be kept secret under national security. la-ex, you might be in the right town to do some digging. How about going to Schwabb's Drugstore at Hollywood and Vine and discovering the truth? Shit, any idiot with the cash now a days can get satellite time. We can find this out. But, let's just do another math problem assuming this $100k per two hour block is correct. Let's say that there are 5000 and 10000 people paying $30 each. 5,000 pay per views gets ya $150,000 and 10,000 gets you $300,000. Ok, the Really Big Show costs $100k for the satellite. Show ain't got no writers, no producers, no nobodies. Revenue is between $150k and $300k and you got a bottom line profit somewhere between $50k to $200k. Let's say that there's another $25k somewhere and that leaves you in the neighborhood $25k and $175k. Still, not bad for a day or two of work. Do two or three of these a month and you got anywhere from $50k and $525k. Annually, that's between $600k and $6.3 million! And guess what? NO TAXES TO PAY! Is that not about the best gig you can imagine? And don't give me that living in the suburbs with 2.5 kids stuff. You've got what might be the most luxourious house in all of North America with the exception of Bill Gates' Lake Washington five years in the making high tech extravaganza and you've got a view so much better than Bill Gates looking down at a sea of diamonds. Imagine making this little gem of a video hanging out in the studio, turning knobs, twisting up the Kind, hanging with your homies, got your posse working on the outside, drinking the best cognac, fancy ladies. And your buds is no ordinary buds. They laugh at all of your jokes. Your banal platitudes become pearls of wisdom that rivals even Kabir. Hey, Maharaji, don't bogart that joint. Pass it on over to me. The chicks, the clothes, the cars, the plane, the copter, the yacht. Need a change of scene or season jet on downunder and stay at the Sydney residence. This cat knows how to live. And he has yet to earn his first dime or quid or rupee the good old fashioned honest way. No, it doesn't cost Mr. Prem MahaBaggyEyes nuthin' to produce his 40 minute pre-recorded Dean Martin show where he sits behind the ivories and gabs about the beauty of gratitude. He's got the whole nine yards and more professional studio right there on Anacapa View Drive that was bought free and clear with cash hand delivered by the Amtext honchos. Does he have to pay for technicians and editors? Hell, no! He's got premie slaves! And if they're not happy there's plenty more where they came from. Name one premie who runs the video projector at the local video event in Bumblebush, New Jersy, who wouldn't quit their day job and move to California to work in Maharaji's studio for nothing. For that matter you and I can almost afford production quality equipment and we could produce our own little television show in our basements. Something like a talk show. And don't forget that in the very near future we will all be too busy to watch TV because we're going to be spending so much time appearing as guests on each others talk shows. Mark my words, that is the future.

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Date: Sun, Jan 23, 2000 at 22:26:16 (GMT) From: Shifting Email: None To: Roger eDrek™ Subject: Assumptions were generous Message:

Maybe I missed something. Did you count that the rich premies give a huge amount each month? He's filthy rich, and no, he dosn't deserve it premies! Mahaha took all for a ride. Think! Papa shifting gives you permission to use your brains. I did use it and I am out of the cult! YUPPIE!

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Date: Mon, Jan 24, 2000 at 03:24:36 (GMT) From: gerry Email: None To: Shifting Subject: The bells are ringing... Message:

@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ 'For me and my shill...' (Oh, I'm so good at this) As I said elsewhere, 'shifting' aka 'sifting' could be, l hate to say it, Rob. 'Papa Shifting' is representing 'themselves' (he she or it) as a male in this post but has also been female. Go figger. I had a hunch about this 'shifting' persona from the git go. Now what is it Shifty? Hotdog or Donut??? (Offensive words in this post have been edited by the forum administrator)

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Date: Mon, Jan 24, 2000 at 13:37:09 (GMT) From: Brian Email: brian@tigerriver.com To: gerry Subject: The birds are singing... Message:

You are badly mistaken about Shifting. But then what else is new. Now what is it Shifty? Cock or Cunt ??? This is you talking, Gerry. Signed by both your real name and your patented adolescent mentality. I've also seen the ones signed only by your childish vocabulary. 'Anonymity' gives 'courage' to cowards, but you actually have neither. (Oh, I'm so good at this) It's all you have.

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Date: Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 01:15:20 (GMT) From: Anon Email: None To: Brian Subject: The birds are singing... Message:

'Anonymity' gives 'courage' to cowards Good! We could all use some courage!

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Date: Mon, Jan 24, 2000 at 04:38:34 (GMT) From: shifting forgets to look. Email: None To: gerry Subject: No bells. Message:

the fingers: Sifting is a typo, too many. No. I am not a men. There are people who know who I am. No hunches. You will be again jumping into conclussions. See, we can take turns being fools if you want. :( I hate bells. I live behind a church and every sunday morning they scared the hell out of me, because sometimes the sound awakes my child-memories. I dream that my mother tells me is time to go to church. For real.

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Date: Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 00:38:34 (GMT) From: gerry Email: None To: all Subject: My Big Apology Message:

SORRY !!! Who am I to doubt you?There's no way you're Rob . Nope, no way at all. I was insane for ever thinking that...but would it be out of line to ask if you are really Keith, then? I mean this IS an apology and all. Alright. I might be wrong. So given this possibility, I beg a thousand pardons from Shifting. Too bad, though, that old TV show wasn't still being produced Queen For A Day You'd definitely win the washing machine with your story... And I apologize to the world in general for my lack of, ahem, temperance. And I promise Never to post the 'C' word again. Either of them. Ever again. And I promise to stop being an immature jerk. (TM) And further more, taking my own advise, I'm not only apologizing, but effective immediately, resigning my commission as a lieutenant in the UnHoly Trilogy (TM)

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Date: Mon, Jan 24, 2000 at 04:27:18 (GMT) From: Roger Paranoid eDrek™ Email: drek@oz.net To: gerry Subject: The loaf is in the oven... Message:

I'm not sure that I quite ready to agree with you on this Gerry. Even though we are members of the Terrible Trio™, with new members joining us daily, and you and I and the Masked Man belong to Cell #1 and we've taken our oath, 'One for All, All for One™' and recieved our training and have drunk the sacred elixir in a seedy flat overlooking a stray cat alley in Victoria's historic opium den Chinatown... Even with all of that you might be wrong on this, Gerry. However, you'd better bet that Robert Cerby, if not already amongst us, is certainly nearby. His steamy breath I feel over my shoulder. His breath that smells like Pompano Beach. His breath that smells like a vinyl booth couch in an Arthur Murray Jr. Lap Dance School. No, we shouldn't even suggest that Robert Cerby is here. We will be ridiculed and chided. Run out of this prairie dog town. Best let it be. And even if Robert Cerby is not here today and is not messing with our heads he is messing with us because he has and because he can and because he will. I think he's here, too. Don't know which one, yet. Keep sniffing. We'll find him because he stinks.

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Date: Mon, Jan 24, 2000 at 12:20:07 (GMT) From: Loaf Email: Loafji@yahoo.com To: Roger Paranoid eDrek™ Subject: The loaf is in the oven... Message:

Loaf responded: erm....I don't get it ... does this mean you think I'm somebody else ?? I'm not. I'm just me.

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Date: Mon, Jan 24, 2000 at 16:34:41 (GMT) From: Roger eDrek™ Email: drek@oz.net To: Loaf Subject: Oh no! I forgot we had a Loaf Message:

Oh! I'm terribly sorry (no sarcasm at all here.) I forgot that we really had a Loafji. No, it was a play on words to 'the bells are ringing' and now there is 'the birds is singing.' You know, the sexual cliche of not wanting to heat up the oven unless you're going to bake bread. And honestly with this boy cries wolf thing about Robert Cerby it feels that way. Seriously, having the likes of Robert Cerby destabilizes the forum and makes people very jumpy. Robert Cerby has accomplished something very insidious even when he is not here. He's been here enough times in enough incarnations that some like Gerry are overly suspicious. Again, Loaf, had I been more cognizant that you were here I would not have used your handle in my title. I'm sorry, but am glad that you took notice and advised me. And it's good to see you again. I think I'm dumb.

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Date: Sun, Jan 23, 2000 at 23:05:51 (GMT) From: Roger eDrek™ Email: drek@oz.net To: Shifting Subject: Let's call Elan Vital and ask Message:

Hey, I found a letter only a few years old thanking me for my support and 'to acknowledge receipt of your request for information and a form for an automatic monthy bank withdrawal.' Thank god that I never followed through with that dumb idea of mine. The letter closes with 'Your understanding and contributions are greatly appreciated' Sincerly, firstname friendly basis signature here Michele Gabrielli ELAN VITAL, INC. (818) 889-1373 Oh, darn it, there I go again posting personal and private mail or email. But, hey, wait a darn tootin' minute! This mail is not personal nor should it be private. It's official correspondence coming from someone representing Elan Vital.

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Date: Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 19:00:18 (GMT) From: CQG Email: None To: Roger eDrek™ Subject: Let's call Elan Vital and ask Message:

CQG responded: 'Your understanding and contributions are greatly appreciated' One, two, three, - heave ...... ... There go the contributions, and ... there goes the understanding.

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Date: Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 22:52:43 (GMT) From: Roger eDrek™ Email: drek@oz.net To: CQG Subject: that's a lot of understanding Message:

Can you imagine the amount of understanding is required to make these contributions to EV? Either a huge, huge amount or absolutely none at all.

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Date: Sun, Jan 23, 2000 at 04:26:13 (GMT) From: Roger eDrek™ Email: drek@oz.net To: Everyone Subject: Help on Mac Power PC (OT) Message:

A friend wants to sell me a Mac Power PC or is it a PowerPC a Mac clone. Don't know much about this stuff. Can anybody explain all that Mac stuff to me? Thanks

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Date: Sun, Jan 23, 2000 at 17:42:10 (GMT) From: Anon Email: None To: Roger eDrek™ Subject: Help on Mac Power PC (OT) Message:

A Mac Power PC is an Apple Macintosh product. I have owned quite a few myself. They have now evolved into the G3 series and the blistering G4 computers which some say are the most powerful PC's available right now. (Only some applications take advantage of the new G4's processors power at this stage. Adobe Photoshop is one I believe). You are probably being offered either a 7100 , 8100, 9500 or 9600 model, with or without an AV card. I use a 9500, 150 mhz (clockspeed) with a third party 'NewerTech' G3 accelerator daughterboard, for most of my office and graphic work (with 160 megs of RAM). I also have a G3 400 mgz AV Mac and another 9600/200 mhz machine. I used to have 7100 and 8100AV power PC's which were also very good but onlyran at 80 mghz. You need to find out the model no. the RAM that it comes with and the clockspeed before I can advise you more on it's desirablity. I would recommend Macintosh computers to anyone. They are used frequently in the graphics /publishing and music industry. There is plenty of software available that is native to the PowerPC platform to do almost anything you want. All Power PC's will have SCSI interfaces for external scanners, drives etc. rather than the newer USB ports , 2 serial ports (for modem and printer), an ethernet port for communicating with other computers, a CD player, internal speaker, floppy drive and sometimes a zip or Jazz drive built in. (Macs all have built in sound cards BTW) Earlier PowerPCs (7100's) will have at least a clockspeed of 60 or 80 mgz and more recent 9600's go up to 350 mghz I believe. One very desirable thing aboout these computers is that they have built in, a number of free card slots to accomodate 3rd party cards , such as professional video capture boards,audio cards, etc. My 9600 has all 6 slots full now I think! A lot of the most popular applications for Graphics, video and music, Adobe Photoshop, Premiere, Macromind Director, Quark Xpress etc started life on the MAcintosh platform I believe, so you may find thatthe Mac you are being offered has some pretty cool software already installed. Oh, and if it's an Apple Multiscan screen that comes with it, it will be basically a Sony Trinitron. Having owned many of the most popular brand screens I would judge they (trinitrons) are the best apart from the new TFT (flat) screens that Apple make. Their Apple Studio display is the sharpest I have seen and doesn't bombard you with so much radiation. Good if you are sitting in front of it all day.

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Date: Sun, Jan 23, 2000 at 11:27:17 (GMT) From: IJ Email: ianjohnson@resthome.freeserve.co.uk To: Roger eDrek™ Subject: Help on Mac Power PC (OT) Message:

Dear Rodger Power Macs come in many forms. They were mainly used in the desktop publishing industry, usually with 21' screens, removable drives etc. If it comes from that source it should have enough ram & hard drive by todays standard. It is possible that it might predate being able to read PC s/ware. On a PC comparsion Power Macs are roughly compareable to high level 486 or early Pentiums, depending on spec. If you have no 2nd hand sources for parts or S/ware you have to goto Apple for your bits, no £5 sound cards, £20 modems or £8 Lotus '97 there! Similar with maintance. If its got phone number specs,nice monitor, ALL the s/ware disks, cables etc for under £150 take a chance Regards IJ PS if you need a system I have a Dell multimedia, modem etc

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Date: Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 13:15:01 (GMT) From: CQG Email: None To: IJ Subject: Help on Mac Power PC (OT) Message:

IJ, you're statement 'Power Macs are roughly comparable to high level 486 or early Pentiums ...' is absolute BS! Just comparing the quoted operating speeds between Macs and PCs is NO criteria to judge by. At least, that what the experts say. Why am I taking issue on this? Apple vs PC? It's like Montagues and Capulets, man.

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Date: Sun, Jan 23, 2000 at 11:01:37 (GMT) From: hamzen Email: None To: Roger eDrek™ Subject: Help on Mac Power PC (OT) Message:

Using a mac might civilize you Roger but I doubt it! Re power pc, both apple & clones for a short while, til apple got tough on the licensing

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Date: Mon, Jan 24, 2000 at 17:44:03 (GMT) From: Roger J.P. Jones eDrek™ Email: drek@oz.net To: hamzen Subject: Thanks all, and Hamzen Message:

Thanks all for the response. My questions have been answered. Uh, the shipping from the UK may make the deal a little too expensive, IJ. Thanks. Hamzen, I am civilized. I'm a yank and long ago we declared our independence and no longer worship the Crown. Talk about civilized! 'Sir, I have not yet begun to fight.'

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Date: Mon, Jan 24, 2000 at 20:23:06 (GMT) From: hamzen Email: None To: Roger J.P. Jones eDrek™ Subject: Thanks all, and Hamzen Message:

Only a few nobs still believe in the crown over here, we only keep them now for the tourist revenue. Mind you is there much difference when you swap multi-nationals and big bucks instead of crown, different clothes sense and style but really exactly the same under the skin, or inside as the burger man would put it. No, it was a teasing smiley at you personally! The difference between using a mac and a pc is the difference between a good massage (works beautifully) and following a guru (hard work).

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Date: Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 20:36:59 (GMT) From: IJ Email: None To: hamzen Subject: Thanks all, and Hamzen Message:

Hazem I have built a P3 450 with 256 ran, 10gb hd etc with a 21' monitor for £500 Thats about a years maintaince contract on a Mac. You will always get more bang for your buck from a PC, but there will always be a market for a computer for the computer inept. WHATS THAT RATTLING SOUND FROM THE CD? Cant wast time talking to you got a computer to repair Reagards IJ

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Date: Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 21:27:18 (GMT) From: CQG Email: None To: IJ Subject: Thanks all, and Hamzen Message:

CQG responded: IF you're saying this 'there will always be a market for a computer for the computer inept.' about the Mac, then you have seriously had it. Mate.

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Date: Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 04:07:31 (GMT) From: Selene Email: None To: hamzen Subject: Thanks all, and Hamzen Message:

Macs or UNOX only way to go. you got it Hamzen. god worship the queen ey Sid?

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Date: Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 04:16:53 (GMT) From: Selene Email: None To: scary girl Subject: damned no edit Message:

UNIX I mean and God Save The Queen. hmmpphh but I don't want the edit feature back believe me!

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Date: Sun, Jan 23, 2000 at 09:14:09 (GMT) From: Roger eDrek™ Email: drek@oz.net To: Roger eDrek™ Subject: Help on Mac Power PC (OT) Message:

Anybody?

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Date: Sun, Jan 23, 2000 at 09:28:51 (GMT) From: Roger eDrek™ Email: drek@oz.net To: Roger eDrek™ Subject: Attn Forum Admins! Archive it! Message:

Time to archive this puppy. Cannot start any new threads until after archving.

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Date: Sun, Jan 23, 2000 at 15:49:04 (GMT) From: Test Email: None To: Roger eDrek™ Subject: Just started a thread! Message:

Maybe the problems on your end.

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Date: Sun, Jan 23, 2000 at 01:09:44 (GMT) From: JHB Email: brauns@dircon.co.uk To: Everyone Subject: A challenge to Maharaji Message:

Maharaji says on his website:- Quite a few people wanted to see me as a figurehead. I didn't want to be one and I am not one. A few others saw me as a leader, and I didn't want to be one and I am not one. God gave me the ability to speak from my heart, and that is what I wanted to do—speak to those who wanted to hear me, impart Knowledge to those who sought it. 'If you like what is given, practice it; if not, leave it.' This statement, to me, is simple, yet profound and has been echoed since the time of my Father. The above is a lie. I have evidence that Maharaji said quite the opposite. I reproduce this here from Maharaji's website in deliberate contravention of the terms and conditions of entry into that site. In doing so, I invite Maharaji to sue me. If any lawsuit is forthcoming, I will counter such with breach of contract lawsuit relating to the promises Maharaji gave at the time I received Knowledge. Maharaji, do you have the guts to go public? John Brauns

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Date: Sun, Jan 23, 2000 at 02:02:44 (GMT) From: Sifting Email: None To: JHB Subject: A challenge to Maharaji Message:

JHB posted: Maharaji says on his website:- Quite a few people wanted to see me as a figurehead. I didn't want to be one and I am not one. A few others saw me as a leader, and I didn't want to be one and I am not one. God gave me the ability to speak from my heart, and that is what I wanted to do—speak to those who wanted to hear me, impart Knowledge to those who sought it. 'If you like what is given, practice it; if not, leave it.' This statement, to me, is simple, yet profound and has been echoed since the time of my Father. JHB, I agree, Maharaji is a total lier. He accomodates his words to make all fit. I still have many videos in which Maharaji contradicts his statement cited above. I have many videos and old magazines, many of them to corroborate his lies. I believe strongly that he must be stopped: His words are deceiving and he is hurting innocent people. When he was young he believed he was God, today, he is just a guy talking to people 'from his heart'. He is a total fake. Maharaji has no consciense and he's getting very bad advice from the premies around him. I feel it's time for us old premies from US to expose him. Many media agents would be happy to do it. Yesterday I asked to a premie: Why do you think Maharaji used to say that he was God and now presents himself just as a teacher? His answer was that Maharaji wants to keep all low, because people in the west do not understand the concept of a master. And yes, he thinks Maharaji is the Lord. I asked the premie: Do YOU understand the concept of a master? He just looked at me and didn't answer. I just talked for few minutes with the premie because he seemed very nervous having to respond. Premies think they were chosen and that is a privilege to follow him. Why? Maharaji has 'reminded' people many times in his videos, I have them, of how special opportunity a person have to participate in such a thing as spreading Knowledge. Premies are helping Maharaji promote something that they don't even know what it's. Something dangerous to anybody's mental health. Premies smile and say: Knowledge cannot be understood with the mind, you know?... That is the perfect way to present it, so, Maharaji always is going to be right... He can change all to fit his story. Now, out of the cult, I can see the damage done to me and all those who follow Maharaji. I dislike you Maharaji very much! When you were young you didn't know better, what is now your excuse today? You are 42 years old now. Time to pack and go.

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Date: Sun, Jan 23, 2000 at 05:38:22 (GMT) From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Sifting Subject: HIS Most Blatant Lies exposed Message:

1/ Quite a few people wanted to see me as a figurehead. I didn't want to be one and I am not one. A few others saw me as a leader, and I didn't want to be one and I am not one. Only HIS GRACE will save his devotees, and you better express some Gratitude! (The Grace & Gratitude Saytsang) 2/ Rawat says he's a mere meditation teacher. He said he's God. See some of his recent quotes in India... Like that one (The Radiance of K Satsang) 3/ Rawat says knowledge is free and nothing is ever charged. Donation is required. See that latest letter of EV. etc etc Shall we continue that list?

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Date: Sun, Jan 23, 2000 at 16:49:32 (GMT) From: Marianne Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: Smartest thing M ever did Message:

The most intelligent thing M ever did was make you an Initiator, Jean-Michel! Great quotes, great insight. Keep up the heat. Marianne

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Date: Sun, Jan 23, 2000 at 21:19:04 (GMT) From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Marianne Subject: Someone dumb like me Message:

an instructor ........ I know I'm dumb, not the shadow of a doubt. With a part of my brain missing. One more proof he's making mistakes after mistakes. But this is His Lila, you know.....

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Date: Mon, Jan 24, 2000 at 10:11:11 (GMT) From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: Sorry Rawat, I was wrong ! Message:

You didn't make any mistake 'choosing' me ! A mistake is something that happens when you have a mind that's in perfect shape, and when you're acting consciously according to some plans, dealing with facts, and you're enough connected to reality to be able to assess the situation and work for realistic goals. The problem is that you have little or no connection with the reality of 'this world'. You chose your servants according to bad criteria, you make decisions on false assumptions. You live in a world you've constructed (I'd rather say your slaves are creating for you) and you can't use it very much to achieve anything in this world, except for making money and buying the toys you need so badly. But even this is a huge potential problem, and you know it. The result of this is no mistake: it has to be like that !

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Date: Sun, Jan 23, 2000 at 22:28:06 (GMT) From: Shifting Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: Someone dumb like me, nt Message:

God is a joker? NoT

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Date: Sun, Jan 23, 2000 at 00:04:29 (GMT) From: Rated-X Email: xxxdomination@yahoo.com To: Everyone Subject: Domination Message:

I've always been a fan of domination in a sexual context, like spankings, bondage, discipline, humiliation and anything else that's kinky and unusual. And I was wondering if that character trait is common among people drawn into cults? The relationship of m with his followers is DEFINETELY a form of domination, although very different and possibly more damaging. Calling someone Master or Mistress and kissing their feet is popular in domination scenes. In terms of relationships, most hardcore premies are single and those that aren't are living with another hardcore premie. I find just that pretty strange. If you've had unusual experiences or fantasies please write, I'm very open minded and practically nothing shocks me. Rated-X

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Date: Sun, Jan 23, 2000 at 17:00:24 (GMT) From: Mistress Grammar Email: None To: Rated-X Subject: Domination Message:

If you had used some improper grammar, I would have been happy to discuss the topic you mentioned. This sort of thing is usually discussed over in Hell. Mistress Grammar

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Date: Mon, Jan 24, 2000 at 21:29:27 (GMT) From: CQG Email: None To: Mistress Grammar Subject: Hell ain't Hell anymore (nt) Message:

CQG responded: Hell ain't Hell anymore ... not since 'Rated-X' appeared on the ex Forum! Now this could be heaven! P.S. Mistress, are you of the same gender as 'Rated-X'? (or is that too much of a sterotype?)

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Date: Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 18:37:07 (GMT) From: CQG Email: None To: CQG Subject: Oops-it's changed its name(nt) Message:

nt

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Date: Sat, Jan 22, 2000 at 20:23:49 (GMT) From: Richard Email: None To: Everyone Subject: denaturalization & deportation Message:

Has anyone discussed attempting to take away M's citizenship and deportation via the U.S. justice system? Hubbard and Rajneesh were both deported. Would require study and a lot of work on part of ex-premies. Would be worth the try!!!!!!!!!!!!! Hubbard was deported from almost every country in the world. But as a native citizen he eventualy was let back into the U.S. I'm guessing that Rajneesh was permanently deported. My reasons for wanting to get rid of Rawat are different than anything I've read on this forum. But individual reasons might not be important at first. If we need legal depositions, then reasons would have to be given. There are good legal info libraries in my area. I've decided to start working on this information. Let me get some feed back on this issue.

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Date: Sun, Jan 23, 2000 at 06:34:03 (GMT) From: Roger eDrek™ Email: drek@oz.net To: Richard Subject: Probably need a miracle Message:

Maharaji is married to a natural born U.S. Citizen and his children are natural born citizens. I imagine that his status ia a naturalized citizen. Maharaji would have to kill his entire family, including that sappy brother of his, and kidnap the Presidential dog and sodimize the poor thing in public at gates of the castle of Disney World and share a meal of barbequed dog with Michael Jackson before they'd even consider deporting him. What could be a slam dunk would be if Maharaji was wearing his Mala at the scene of the crime and there was a crowd of premies cheering him on while singing 'The Lord of the Universe.' Surely, Jesse Helms would have something to work with with all of that.

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Date: Sun, Jan 23, 2000 at 16:56:46 (GMT) From: Marianne Email: None To: Roger eDrek™ Subject: Forgot organ grinding monkey Message:

Roger! You forgot that M must have his organ grinding monkey if he is truly going to be toast! How could you?! Richard: Getting someone deported is complicated and takes years. Rajneesh got deported because the Rajneeshees were involved in a conspiracy to murder Charlie Turner, the US Attorney for Oregon, and also because of other nefarious incidents at Rajneeshpuram in Oregon. Deportation would be a potential side benefit to a federal criminal prosecution and conviction. I don't see deportation in the cards myself. Better yet would be EV's tax exempt status removed, M's source of funds evaporates, and he has to live the humble existence he recommended for the rest of us. Richard -- maybe I've missed this as I've not been frequenting the site as much lately. When and where were you a premie? Take care, Marianne

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Date: Sun, Jan 23, 2000 at 17:49:19 (GMT) From: Shifting Email: None To: Marianne Subject: and something else Message:

Good. Tax exemption removal would be the begining for me, but he must, Mahahaha has to stop spreading his gratitud(servitude), truth, heaven inside, etc. garbage. How many more people have to get hurt before he listens. A gift is a gift? Not according to him.

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Date: Sat, Jan 22, 2000 at 16:51:25 (GMT) From: Robyn Email: None To: Everyone Subject: HB Steve Perry! Message:

Dear Steve, Just hearing you on the radio now reminded me it is your birthday today. That voice use to really effect me. Ahhhhhhh, the memories. :) Love, Robyn

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Date: Sun, Jan 23, 2000 at 04:05:21 (GMT) From: Helen Email: None To: Robyn Subject: HB Steve Perry! Message:

Steve Perry of 'Journey'? I have the same reaction to him RObyn. I still hear that smokey voice of his and have many memories indeed. He has a great voice.

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Date: Sun, Jan 23, 2000 at 15:26:36 (GMT) From: Robyn Email: None To: Helen Subject: HB Steve Perry! Message:

Dear Helen, Yes, that's the one! His voice really did give me a physical sensation in my chest, similar to a feeling of being veclempt! :) There is more to the story but may be way to off topic for here, I'll email it to you. :) Love, Robyn

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Date: Sat, Jan 22, 2000 at 16:01:33 (GMT) From: CQG Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Carol, I'd like to apologise Message:

Thanks to Roger eDrek - now a.k.a. 'Ricky Fitts' - I was searching for a site about the sceptical (literal meaning: 'inquiring' or 'reflective') mind. In the process I discovered a piece by Jan Groenveld (link posted below in 'How some premies will feel') which really opened my eyes and made me reconsider the 'us-versus-them' attitude that I had obviously subscribed to but had not really questioned. This passage really hit home: 'Leaving a cult is like experiencing the death of a close relative or a broken relationship. The feeling is often described as like having been betrayed by someone with whom you were in love. You feel you were simply used. There is a grieving process to pass through. Whereas most people understand that a person must grieve after a death etc, they find it difficult to understand the same applies in this situation ...' I guess I'm still recovering from the aftermaths of cult-involvement. The evident loss of balance in my attitude towards current premies makes that pretty damn clear - at least to me. Anyone been through this before? Any guidelines to offer? Christopher

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Date: Sat, Jan 22, 2000 at 18:18:34 (GMT) From: michael Email: None To: CQG Subject: Carol, I'd like to apologise Message:

One of the common tools of recovery includes writing down your story and sharing it with at least one other person - the journey. Another tool is to talk, talk, talk about it. Best to share with others that have been through the same experience(s). I'll share more of my story later. Gotta go somehwere. Peace -

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Date: Sat, Jan 22, 2000 at 15:22:31 (GMT) From: CQG Email: None To: Everyone Subject: How some premies will feel Message:

PLEASE check out this link (I sometimes forget that I got out of the cult relatively unscathed)

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Date: Sun, Jan 23, 2000 at 04:14:48 (GMT) From: Helen Email: None To: CQG Subject: How some premies will feel Message:

Thanks for the link. I was not scathed in the same way either. I never isolated myself so that my only friends were premies. It must be excruciating to have all your friends shun you, or have a spouse or kid shun you. I think it can take years for a person to really let go of a love that has been such an integral part of their lives. WE made M into what we wanted him to be--pure, childlike, full of light--and that image was aided by all the hype. How hard it is to give up that perfect friend in our back pocket. It takes time. The discomfort of hanging on to a false dream has to become greater than the comfort that the dream offers. It's a process. It's nice to see your kindness here. Thanks

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Date: Mon, Jan 24, 2000 at 18:43:45 (GMT) From: CQG Email: None To: Helen Subject: ... and how some of us felt Message:

CQG responded: I really appreciate your clarity, Helen 'WE made M into what we wanted him to be' It's that old projection trip (is projection the right word? - or is it transference?) - with a little guidance from the 'party line' - and, hey presto, that's how M became all things to all premies. And I guess that, compared to some religions/personality cults - leaving M appears to be quite easy (though I'm still - over twenty years after - finding some of his hooks in my personality.) Best wishes Chris

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Date: Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 16:47:27 (GMT) From: Helen Email: None To: CQG Subject: losing the ego & one's power Message:

I agree that leaving M is relatively easy compared to some cults for me, anyway. However I think it depended on one's level of involvement. The more involved, the more loss of one's personality, instincts, talents, supports, money etc. The more involved one was, the more lost one's ego. I can't tell you how much that concept of 'losing one's ego' was destructive to me! Like many premies, I didn't have much of an ego to begin with, Instead of having it torn down, the time would have been more well spent in therapy building it up. I think M preys on people with fragile egos. I think that having an ego, a strong sense of self is absolutely essential to survival and I think that the ego diminishes as a natural developmental progression as one mellows with age, this can't be forced. The thing that motivated me to want to lose my ego was not solely M's faul,t it was from the whole trip of the era, 'Be Here Now', everyone had a guru, everyone in my college at that time was getting into a spiritual trip. SOme people really used their spiritual growth to enhance their lives, others got too into the guru thing to the point where it diminished them too much. I would say where there is a guru involved there is usually an unhealthy type of spirituality where the person's life is diminished because there is this unhealthy detachment from the world and other people. As per projection or transference, I bet it was a combination of both. Projecting all one's good qualities onto him, transference of one's need for a loving parent onto him.In psychotherapy I guess this happens all the time and the good counselor helps the client through this, trying not to take advantage of the client's vulnerability. But M just ran with it, he relies on people giving him his power & he doesn't give it back to them and point out to them how there giving away power is the relationship diminishes them. And then the added bit of spectacle and illusion that serves as a pacifier and a reinforcement of the projection/transference and voila, you have yourself a marketing coup preying on people with fragile egos.

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Date: Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 18:35:04 (GMT) From: CQG Email: None To: Helen Subject: Whatever happened to ... Message:

In M's world, whatever happened to empowerment and non-attachment? 'If you love somebody - set them free'

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Date: Wed, Jan 26, 2000 at 19:11:03 (GMT) From: Helen Email: None To: CQG Subject: Whatever happened to ... Message:

Good point! M wants us remembering him with every breath. How's that for being merged in a really unhealthy way?. Did you ever hear the take off on that 'If you love something, set it free' (now remember this is just intended to be a joke) 'If you love something, set it free, If it comes back it was meant to be, If it doesn't, Hunt it down and kill it!'

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Date: Thurs, Jan 27, 2000 at 19:50:11 (GMT) From: cqg Email: None To: Helen Subject: Wild things Message:

Is that why wild things run fast? And if that link doesn't work (why not webmeistros?) suggest you look at 'good grief' at the end of this thread.

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Date: Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 16:53:54 (GMT) From: Helen Email: None To: Chris Subject: losing the ego & one's power Message:

I meant to say 'M doesn't point out to them how their giving away power in the relationship diminishes them' Helen the writer and editor--ha ha

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Date: Sat, Jan 22, 2000 at 18:02:55 (GMT) From: michael Email: None To: CQG Subject: How some premies will feel Message:

Roger, better make CQG's link a best! Webmaster, please get his link onto ex-premie.org. CQG - great job! There is more need of this. I have been in a recovery support group for over 6 years myself. Yep, I am a compulsive gambler. The information on the link you supplied is very similar to some of the 12 step information on recovery. Yes, it hurts. It hurts to know that something you relied on for so many years was actually destroying your life. It hurts to leave the 'support and comfort' of your addiction behind you. Worship of maharaji was an addiction of that I have no doubt. How good it felt to sing out 'bhole shri satguru dev maharaj ki jai'. Remember the warmth and peace of singing arti? [you are my mother you are my father you are my all to me] How comforting to know that your life was the Lord's play! How many jobs were left behind to go to another program? How many friends were left behind? How deeply were family members insulted and hurt when family values were ignored? When I left the then DLM and the then Lord of the Universe, I just walked away. That was over twenty years ago. After finding this web site in December, '99, I realized that maharaji still had some 'hooks' in me. I spent four and a half years ('72-'77), at least, worshipping maharaji as GOD incarnate! That left deep scars on me. Finding this website has enabled me to clear away the remains of that addiction and replace scar tissue with healthy flesh. There is often a lot of anger expressed on this forum. That too is common when the addict first realizes he or she is in the grip of an addiction. It is alright and healthy to release some of this anger. In time most people in recovery come to realize that thier anger isn't with the addiction. Rather it is with themselves for being so stupid and weak and gullible. Then they learn to forgive themselves and realize that they are healing. Don't think that I am holding maharaji blameless. He is not an impersonal bottle of booze, a bag of crack or a video poker machine. No, he is and was someone who perpetuates the cult of himself. He is responsible for his actions. If he is brought to justice, then he will have reaped the fruits of his karma, his choices. Yes, maharaji perpetuates the addictive process. So many premies were willing to help him. Today's premie or whatever they call themselves continue to support maharaji. This website is not really for them, I believe. The premie who wants to reclaim his or her life is no doubt welcome here. Of course I didn't setup nor do I maintain this site. I just feel happy that I found it. Another common experience of those in recovery is a deep feeling of loss. What do you use to replace the source of your addiction? The common and most basic answer is 'a normal and happy life'. Each of us has to define normal and happy on our own terms. This isn't always easy, especially when one has been caught in the throes of addiction for any considerable periond of time. Also, if one has never experienced 'normalacy' in life, they may have a difficult time recognizing the signs of a normal happy life. Each of us has to decide what we will accept as 'normal' and what makes us happy. I do not presume to tell anyone else just exactly how to live. Here is some of what works for me (at least most of the time). 1. Respect - for myself and others 2. Love - for myself and others 3. Interest - in my own life and the life's of others 4. A deep belief that life has meaning - more and more for me it appears that life is its own meaning. 5. A sense of maturity - knowing when to dish it out - knowing how to take it. With all of its ups and downs, good and bad, suffering and joy life is to be experienced. Life and the joy of living should not be given away to drugs, alcohol, gambling, or some guru. So, if you are a premie that is starting to doubt, or an aspirant to knowledge who wants to better understand maharaji and elan vital, I hope that you will do at least three things. 1. Explore every part of this site for all of the historical information it contains. 2. Do some honest research on the whole guru approach to 'enlightenment'. 3. Look deeply into your own body, mind, heart and soul - the answers you seek, I believe, will be found there. Peace - St. Michael the Delighted to be Alive. Whee!

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Date: Mon, Jan 24, 2000 at 19:09:51 (GMT) From: CQG Email: None To: michael Subject: ..premies and ... who else? Message:

Great post, Michael, At the risk of sounding like a poseur (Hi there, Dep!) I'd say that the 'light' of the third eye technique pales into mere entertainment when faced with the other kind of light - that of intelligence and personal insight - like you have just shared with us. The connection between addictive behaviour and personality-cult dependency has just hit me, thanks to your post. However, I don't think it's just cults that exhibit such traits - many of the major religions of the world (at least at street level) appear to prey on the very same weaknesses in human nature. For instance: how come our kids are programmed with a 'gentle Jesus, meek and mild; Prince of Peace' whitewash, when he actually said things like: 'Think ye that I come to bring peace? I come NOT to bring peace but a sword'. I forget the exact quotation - but if you're Michael formerly known as Micky the P, (as I'm presuming you are) you'll know. In fact, isn't there a pretty strong correlation between the kind of 'love', or at least 'support' that premies found with M and the social scene around him, - and the communities of 'conventional' religious-minded folk? The question for me is: who does that benefit? And who gets to stop looking for real answers? This is 'train of thought', stuff, and could be better expressed. But I hope you can see where I'm going with this. Best of luck, Christopher P.S. Careful with that 'saint' moniker, Michael, I might just go right off you!

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Date: Mon, Jan 24, 2000 at 20:31:55 (GMT) From: michael Email: None To: CQG Subject: ..premies and ... anyone else! Message:

First off, I am not Micky the P, or Mike or Michael I am michael. My real name is Michael A. Read. I was a premie in Portland, OR back in '72 through about 77-78. So, unless someone else usurps my identity, when you see michael posting that is me. --- You wrote: P.S. Careful with that 'saint' moniker, Michael, I might just go right off you! Go ahead! Go off, get off, jump off, back off, whack off - do as you please! I do not care. I will not counter attack. I have also refered to myself as St. Michael the Demented ;-) --- --- You wrote: For instance: how come our kids are programmed with a 'gentle Jesus, meek and mild; Prince of Peace' whitewash, when he actually said things like: 'Think ye that I come to bring peace? I come NOT to bring peace but a sword'. Because I have been a Baptist, a Mennonite, and a Catholic I know what you are refering to here. Your quote is a bit off but, it does capture the gist of it. I have observed that religion tends to mess many people up. All religions are cults! But that is a topic for another thread, I think. When I first found this forum I posted some religious references from christianity, buddhism and zen. Not a good idea! At least not here. {:-) Hell's bells! I was just cross referencing ;-) Have you noticed that one of the major underlying premises of religion is that there is something wrong with being a human being? Humans are unenlighted, un-realized, sinners who have no hope of salvation without the grace/intervention of the saviour or guru! Whatever happened to the old 'I'm OK - you're OK' idea? --- I am researching how to come up with a 12 step program for the religious addicted. This will be an interesting challenge as 12 step programs are based in large part on 'belief in a Power greater than myself'. Peace - St Michael the Delighted ;-) The Zen Golden Rule: Don't do things to people that you do not want people to do to you! HAHAHAHAHAH --- HOHOHOHOHOHO!

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Date: Mon, Jan 24, 2000 at 21:20:29 (GMT) From: CQG Email: None To: michael Subject: ..premies and ... anyone else! Message:

Michael, sorry about the confusion about your moniker - thought I was conversing with 'Micky the Pharisee' (Anglican priest in Panama). Have I 'noticed that one of the major underlying premises of religion is that there is something wrong with being a human being? Well, since most religion as we know it is light-years away from the original message of the various avatars, I think that says more about the human race's ability to hear what we want to hear, as opposed to what we were being told. Mind you, the power of the priest (vicarius=substitute) is what JC fought against 2000 years ago. What makes people think he wouldn't do the same again, given half the chance? You're right, though, - the 'hook' of supposed 'not-OK-ness' without (insert the deity of your choice here) has kept people under the thumb of the shaman/priest/guru for too many centuries. Trouble is, power/control has always been a major factor in us Simians' evolution. Remember that bone-wielding ape in 2001 a Space Oddysey? The first weapon? Religion can be used like that too. And of course the very origin of the word (re=again; ligio=I bind) implies .... what? Sorry, but time is short. Gotta go. P.S. Thanks, enjoyed sparring with you! P.P.S But why call yourself a saint? They're just as guilty as the priests!

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Date: Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 01:36:17 (GMT) From: michael Email: None To: CQG Subject: ..premies and ... anyone else! Message:

What you wrote: But why call yourself a saint? They're just as guilty as the priests! Hey let's just take that on a saint by saint basis. Shall we?:-) There was Simon Templar - a rather secular fellow - but he was interesting! Then there all the martyrs - they get the title as a compenstation prize. There is at least one nonhuman - he is also named Michael - but there is no comparison. Then there are the Latter Day Saints - they are saints by consensus - thier own! Then there are all of those christian saints - mostly sainted by committee - after lucid arguments by the devils advocate. Then there are all of those sants - who appoints them anyway? Then there is me - St. Michael the Delighted - glad to make your acquaintance!;-) Ain't nobody special, just me. Big ego for a speck of dust but hey :-) it ain't easy being an avatar. Avast and avaunt we don't serve your kind here! Avatar, indeed! ;-) --- --- --- Since you used the word avatar with such casual confidence, do you believe in them? Hmmmmm?

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Date: Tues, Jan 25, 2000 at 21:05:19 (GMT) From: CQG Email: None To: St michael Subject: ... anyone else? Message:

'Avast and avaunt'??? - you bin looking in a dictionary, 'aven't you? Just as well, and thanks for getting me to, too. (To, too? - that reminds me of a Miles Davis album - and how that shows my age, eh? - I still call them albums). I had thought the word avatar to mean something along the lines of 'founder of a religion', or words to that effect. So much for casual confidence. Now we know. (Sanskriti origin, 'ava'=down; 'tr'=pass over.) But, you ask, 'do I believe in them?' Ah. I have it on good authority (from a certain E.L. Wisty, who, I once thought, just might have liked to have been aquainted with the Pythons - but I could be wrong) that beliefs are much like opinions, and can be challenged. Facts, on the other hand, are facts, and it's a fact that my understanding (or rather, lack of it) of the word 'avatar' (TM patent pending) was not in complete accord with that remarkable and quite pithy tome that we all should peruse more often-the Concise Oxford Dictionary. COD for short. But let me say, here and now, for the benefit of those of you who prefer to be there and then, that anyone who calls themselves a true Brit owes it to himself, nay to his very country, to be highly suspicious of anyone (particularly a Yank) calling themselves after a well-known brand of underwear. To wit, Marks & Sparks. (Sparks as in Spencer, for some reason.) Nonetheless, I am prepared - very well prepared - to say to you, St. Michael the Delighted Though Occasionally Demented, the hand of friendship across the watery expanse that separates us, - we British, - from you - bleedin' foreigners. Pleased to meet you too, I'm sure ;) ......................... .......................... .................... (musing) what the hell is anyone who hasn't heard of E.L. Wisty going to make of this?

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Date: Wed, Jan 26, 2000 at 02:59:20 (GMT) From: michael Email: None To: CQG Subject: ... anyone else? Message:

Yes, I did take a peek at the old American College Dictionary. (where is the damn spell checker on this forum!!!) A somewhat limited tome, but it does suffice. I was also (too) interested in the roots of the word avatar. Many of the sant mat traditionalists refer to themselves as avatar. Adi Da calls himself 'the awaited God Man' or some such tripe. I can conceive of the possibility of the very power of the universe taking human shape. Then I look people and say, hmmmm. What is we? We are stardust? We are golden? My current lady friend sees me as something a bit more carnal! Whee! What you refer to 'to be highly suspicious of anyone particularly a Yank) calling themselves after a well-known brand of underwear. To wit, Marks & Sparks. (Sparks as in Spencer, for some reason.)' with this little culteral reference means nothing to me. I wish it did. It's undoubtetly droll. Ah, well...we are still so colonial on this continent. Peace -

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Date: Wed, Jan 26, 2000 at 18:19:55 (GMT) From: CQG Email: None To: michael Subject: everyone else? Message:

Hi there Michael, I'd explain the reference to Marks and Spencer, but don't know the American equivalent yet. Anyone out there who does? What is we? you ask. Well, believe it or not, 'stardust' is scientifically correct - planets, stars and galaxies ultimately being formed out of nebulae, which themselves are the dust-remnants of stars which long ago (and I do mean long!) exploded. Of course, there's been a bit of evolution happen along the way as well. As for 'golden', I guess it meant something good to the lyric writer (Neil Young?) - and guess what the Maha likes to crap on? (Though I doubt he's subtle enough to see anything tastless in having a gold lavatory.) You say that you: 'can conceive the possibility of the very power of the universe taking human shape'. Possibility? We're all around you, aren't we? (and I'm not referring to any so-called avatars!) Enjoy, Christopher

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Date: Wed, Jan 26, 2000 at 18:38:47 (GMT) From: JHB Email: None To: CQG Subject: Joni Mitchell Message:

As for 'golden', I guess it meant something good to the lyric writer (Neil Young?) The song was Woodstock written by Joni Mitchell, but recorded by Crosby, Stills, Nash and Young and was also a big hit for Matthews Southern Comfort in the U.K. John

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Date: Thurs, Jan 27, 2000 at 19:43:06 (GMT) From: CQG Email: None To: JHB Subject: Good grief Message:

Good grief. What must I have been thinking/drinking? ... and me a congenital Joni fan. Beleive it or not, about a year or so before she released the album, I awoke from a vivid dream in Poona, India, with a powerful thought/vision of a wild animal in my mind, together with the words: 'wild things run fast'. Strange. (and I've never shared this with anyone before)

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Date: Sat, Jan 22, 2000 at 12:37:34 (GMT) From: Golden Oldie Email: None To: Everyone Subject: my freedom Message:

for those of you that remember me...I got freeed up from that belief system. Thanks to all of you that helped me. I continue on my world tour and will look in when I find a cyber cafe. Particukare thanks to Jim Heller. Golden Oldie (Goldie)

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Date: Sun, Jan 23, 2000 at 03:48:29 (GMT) From: Roger eDrek™ Email: drek@oz.net To: Golden Oldie Subject: Excuuuze me? ***Best*** Message:

Don't quite understand the phrase 'Particukare thanks to Jim Heller', but any post that mentions our departed comrade in a favorable manner becomes a ***Best***. I'm assuming the best here. ***Best***

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Date: Sat, Jan 22, 2000 at 16:49:00 (GMT) From: Robyn Email: None To: Golden Oldie Subject: my freedom Message:

Dear Goldie, Yes, I remember you too! Glad to hear the good news. Good luck and happy life! Love, Robyn

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Date: Sat, Jan 22, 2000 at 15:09:52 (GMT) From: Mike Email: None To: Golden Oldie Subject: Scene from poltergeist: Message:

GO: 'This house is clean.........' he he he he :-)

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Date: Sat, Jan 22, 2000 at 13:44:46 (GMT) From: Marianne Email: None To: Golden Oldie Subject: Your freedom Message:

I remember you, GO. Congratulations. Now you can enjoy your life! Marianne

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Date: Sat, Jan 22, 2000 at 07:18:22 (GMT) From: mantis Email: None To: Everyone Subject: anyone remember this? Message:

Remember people talking about how someday Guru Maharaji might ask you to cut off your head? Or kill your family? I remember. Oh, yes, I remember.

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Date: Sat, Jan 22, 2000 at 14:50:08 (GMT) From: DV Email: None To: mantis Subject: anyone remember this? Message:

I remember feeling quite honored to have the opportunity to stop a bullet for him during my security days. Course I was such a skinny vegetarian low calorie type back then the bullet would hardly have slowed down!

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Date: Sat, Jan 22, 2000 at 12:49:17 (GMT) From: AJW Email: None To: mantis Subject: 'I'd slit his throat.' Message:

Hi mantis I don't know if you've seen the unofficial 'Lord of the Universe' video. There's a copy doing the rounds in the UK at the moment. I think it was made by a film student. It's a documentary about the premie 'Millenium' festival at Houston, in 74. There's a scene where a premie, 'doing security duty', says he'd quite happily have slit the throat of the person who splatted Maharaji with a custard pie. The interviewer is obviously shocked, and repeats the question to make sure it was understood. This devoted follower of the 'Lord of Love and Life', daily in touch with the source of peace that is his being, calmly reiterates, 'I'd slit his throat.' Anth, (selling his soul to the tabloids for the price of a splif.)

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Date: Sun, Jan 23, 2000 at 04:11:00 (GMT) From: Roger eDrek™ Email: drek@oz.net To: AJW Subject: Don't bogart that joint, my fr Message:

Proxomitron Corrected Subject Line is: Don't bogart that joint, my friend... Pass it on over to me

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Date: Sun, Jan 23, 2000 at 11:01:39 (GMT) From: AJwhatwasit? Email: None To: Roger eDrek™ Subject: 'Forgot where I put it' (nt) Message:

It must be around here somewhere.

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Date: Sat, Jan 22, 2000 at 13:27:16 (GMT) From: corvuscorax Email: corvuscorax@mybc.com To: AJW Subject: 'I'd slit his throat.' Message:

Anth, I was one of the [ex]premies flown from London, to Houston, for that gig. This so called 'security' which seemed to consist of, looking after piles of 'Divine Times'. I'm sure it was not me in that video, but i am curious to see if i could recognize the individual. I will be in London for a few weeks in April, any chance we could get together for a beer and a chat? Make mine a draught bitter, Jamie -----------

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Date: Wed, Jan 26, 2000 at 03:07:50 (GMT) From: Sean O'Grady Email: seang2@earthlink.net To: corvuscorax Subject: 'I'd slit his throat.' Message:

That guy in the video was from back East, Philly I think-cause all the Bliss Band folks knew him. Anyway, he was a real dick in everyday life-and utterly full of shit. I remember laughing when I saw it cause I knew him. Sean

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