Forum V: Archive
Compiled: Fri, Jan 28, 2000 at 21:40:48 (GMT)
From: Jan 11, 2000 To: Jan 27, 2000 Page: 4 Of: 5


zorro6 -:- cruel treatment of premies ius -:- Mon, Jan 17, 2000 at 15:16:01 (GMT)
__ Another Guy -:- cruel treatment -:- Tues, Jan 18, 2000 at 18:55:10 (GMT)
__ __ carol -:- I said, By M?????? -:- Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 08:01:41 (GMT)
__ __ __ Special Agent -:- Would you believe it?? -:- Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 01:16:14 (GMT)
__ __ __ Jean-Michel -:- Yes, by Rawat Himself! -:- Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 08:39:17 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ carol -:- Yes, by Rawat Himself! -:- Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 19:04:06 (GMT)
__ carol -:- cruel treatment of premies ius -:- Mon, Jan 17, 2000 at 17:04:34 (GMT)
__ __ JW -:- Okay....here -:- Tues, Jan 18, 2000 at 23:31:27 (GMT)
__ __ __ Me -:- Okay....here -:- Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 17:56:00 (GMT)
__ __ __ carol -:- Okay....here -:- Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 08:52:20 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ bb -:- greatest love?? -:- Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 04:03:41 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Susan -:- Carol, hear me out.... -:- Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 16:50:42 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Anon -:- Okay....here -:- Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 15:14:16 (GMT)
__ __ Annon -:- Carol yer great post's gone! -:- Mon, Jan 17, 2000 at 18:14:19 (GMT)
__ __ __ Anon -:- Carols post hasn't gone at all -:- Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 01:39:37 (GMT)
__ __ __ Anon -:- Carol yer great post's gone! -:- Mon, Jan 17, 2000 at 20:11:47 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Annon -:- Carol yer great post's gone! -:- Mon, Jan 17, 2000 at 20:26:25 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Anon -:- Anonn's idea of a joke. -:- Tues, Jan 18, 2000 at 02:03:24 (GMT)
__ __ __ carol -:- Which one? I'm unsure about it -:- Mon, Jan 17, 2000 at 18:54:47 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Annon -:- Which one? I'm unsure about it -:- Mon, Jan 17, 2000 at 20:19:47 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ carol -:- Honesty is not rare here... -:- Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 09:49:25 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ A Premie -:- We are so fortunate -:- Tues, Jan 18, 2000 at 03:57:35 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ bb -:- Which one? I'm unsure about it -:- Tues, Jan 18, 2000 at 03:07:01 (GMT)
__ __ __ Carol -:- Carol yer great post's gone! -:- Mon, Jan 17, 2000 at 18:43:13 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ selene -:- Carol yer great post's gone! -:- Mon, Jan 17, 2000 at 23:45:25 (GMT)

Jean-Michel -:- Report of a SO UNIQUE event! -:- Mon, Jan 17, 2000 at 11:21:43 (GMT)
__ la-ex -:- Unique event-don't worry -:- Mon, Jan 17, 2000 at 22:55:46 (GMT)
__ __ Christopher -:- Unique event-don't worry -:- Tues, Jan 18, 2000 at 18:54:40 (GMT)
__ __ Jean-Michel -:- Guessing where's the money! -:- Tues, Jan 18, 2000 at 00:11:53 (GMT)
__ __ __ Roger Compassionate eDrek -:- I can't help but... -:- Tues, Jan 18, 2000 at 05:32:00 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Genital Consensualsex -:- I can't help but... -:- Tues, Jan 18, 2000 at 18:16:50 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Roger eDrek -:- Kung Fu is the answer -:- Tues, Jan 18, 2000 at 23:03:20 (GMT)

Doesn't anyone want to -:- bid on the guru pic at ebay? -:- Mon, Jan 17, 2000 at 06:36:48 (GMT)
__ Para Funalia -:- Minna piccha issa bedder! -:- Mon, Jan 17, 2000 at 18:14:24 (GMT)
__ Anon -:- London premie life -:- Mon, Jan 17, 2000 at 10:25:40 (GMT)
__ __ Roger eDrek -:- ***Best*** WPC f-f-fashion! -:- Tues, Jan 18, 2000 at 04:50:58 (GMT)
__ __ Christopher -:- London premie life -:- Mon, Jan 17, 2000 at 15:37:00 (GMT)
__ Roger eDrek -:- Here's the link -:- Mon, Jan 17, 2000 at 07:45:54 (GMT)
__ __ If you win Drek you can -:- have a field day morphing it! -:- Mon, Jan 17, 2000 at 16:49:57 (GMT)
__ __ __ Roger eDrek -:- I'm being outbid by CD -:- Tues, Jan 18, 2000 at 04:59:06 (GMT)
__ __ __ Morph it to show his half -:- God half rodent true nature? -:- Mon, Jan 17, 2000 at 17:05:16 (GMT)

Roger eDrek™ -:- Satellite of Pre-Record Love -:- Mon, Jan 17, 2000 at 05:32:15 (GMT)
__ me -:- Satellite of Pre-Record Love -:- Mon, Jan 17, 2000 at 06:22:39 (GMT)
__ __ Roger eDrek™ -:- Called myself what? -:- Mon, Jan 17, 2000 at 06:58:06 (GMT)
__ __ __ me -:- Called myself what? -:- Mon, Jan 17, 2000 at 15:50:30 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Roger eDrek™ -:- Called myself anything but tha -:- Tues, Jan 18, 2000 at 05:13:14 (GMT)
__ __ __ CBI -:- Pre-recorded telecast -:- Mon, Jan 17, 2000 at 07:52:53 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Roger eDrek -:- Pre-recorded telecast -:- Mon, Jan 17, 2000 at 08:16:53 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Roger eDrek -:- And where was Maharaji? -:- Mon, Jan 17, 2000 at 08:30:15 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Shifting -:- And where was Maharaji? -:- Mon, Jan 17, 2000 at 15:59:10 (GMT)

me -:- THE NOT SO UNIQUE EVENT -:- Mon, Jan 17, 2000 at 04:47:44 (GMT)
__ carol -:- THE NOT SO UNIQUE EVENT -:- Mon, Jan 17, 2000 at 09:00:50 (GMT)
__ __ Me -:- THE NOT SO UNIQUE EVENT -:- Tues, Jan 18, 2000 at 00:54:26 (GMT)
__ __ Unique in some ways -:- but not where it counts -:- Tues, Jan 18, 2000 at 00:20:17 (GMT)
__ __ __ Helen -:- you're right--we're closed to -:- Tues, Jan 18, 2000 at 05:04:49 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Blood of other people? -:- Don't be so melodramatic Helen -:- Tues, Jan 18, 2000 at 21:47:19 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Genital Consensualsex -:- There was real blood spilled. -:- Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 02:26:19 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Helen -:- There was real blood spilled. -:- Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 17:45:23 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Bull- -:- shit Helen! (nt) -:- Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 02:36:26 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Helen -:- shit Helen! (nt) -:- Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 04:45:39 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Why -:- bother arguing Helen -:- Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 06:41:47 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ bill -:- you're right--we're closed to -:- Tues, Jan 18, 2000 at 05:52:50 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Roger eDrek -:- you're wrong -we're not closed -:- Tues, Jan 18, 2000 at 07:58:05 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Roger eDrek™ -:- you're wrong we're not closed -:- Tues, Jan 18, 2000 at 07:47:05 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Roger eDrek™ -:- But the door is always open -:- Tues, Jan 18, 2000 at 07:35:25 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Roger eDrek™ -:- I'm a backdoor man - try again -:- Tues, Jan 18, 2000 at 07:40:22 (GMT)
__ __ __ Oh my, one of the chosen -:- but not where it counts -:- Tues, Jan 18, 2000 at 01:01:42 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Tell me my friend, do you -:- know where it really counts? -:- Tues, Jan 18, 2000 at 02:37:34 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ chosen one -:- know where it really counts? -:- Tues, Jan 18, 2000 at 05:06:15 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Doktor Dick -:- know where it really counts? -:- Tues, Jan 18, 2000 at 23:04:09 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Me -:- know where it really counts? -:- Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 05:45:07 (GMT)
__ __ selene -:- THE NOT SO UNIQUE EVENT -:- Mon, Jan 17, 2000 at 23:50:05 (GMT)
__ __ Robyn -:- THE NOT SO UNIQUE EVENT -:- Mon, Jan 17, 2000 at 21:42:02 (GMT)
__ __ Powerman -:- THE NOT SO UNIQUE EVENT -:- Mon, Jan 17, 2000 at 17:46:24 (GMT)
__ __ __ carol -:- Oh Yeah! What was that? -:- Mon, Jan 17, 2000 at 19:15:14 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Powerman -:- Oh Yeah! What was that? -:- Mon, Jan 17, 2000 at 20:46:22 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ By saying this, are you -:- hoping she crashes? -:- Tues, Jan 18, 2000 at 00:51:58 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ thank you -:- hoping she crashes? -:- Tues, Jan 18, 2000 at 01:16:34 (GMT)
__ Jean-Michel -:- So UNIQUE indeed!$!$!$!$! -:- Mon, Jan 17, 2000 at 08:21:50 (GMT)
__ __ bb -:- So UNIQUE indeed!$! -:- Tues, Jan 18, 2000 at 02:53:08 (GMT)

michael -:- Another one cometh! -:- Sun, Jan 16, 2000 at 03:16:47 (GMT)
__ Da Trufe -:- Hey! Hey! Over Here! -:- Sun, Jan 16, 2000 at 05:37:55 (GMT)
__ __ Christopher -:- Beyondananda - the true guru! -:- Mon, Jan 17, 2000 at 15:29:04 (GMT)
__ __ __ Wanda Rher -:- Beyondananda - the true guru! -:- Mon, Jan 17, 2000 at 16:55:43 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Khreesto Furrr -:- ... it's driving me (nt) -:- Mon, Jan 17, 2000 at 17:09:38 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Wanda Rher -:- ..Oh, baby..YES! Drive me!(nt) -:- Mon, Jan 17, 2000 at 17:57:08 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Steeph o' Khrerrr -:- oh ... Manny bat me home -:- Mon, Jan 17, 2000 at 18:10:37 (GMT)
__ Da kine -:- Another one cometh! -:- Sun, Jan 16, 2000 at 04:15:56 (GMT)
__ __ Roger eDrek™ -:- Very clever play on words! -:- Sun, Jan 16, 2000 at 05:55:56 (GMT)
__ __ __ Roger eDrek -:- Oops, can't use HTML char code -:- Sun, Jan 16, 2000 at 05:58:18 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Roger eDrek™ -:- Test: let's try a pasted TM -:- Sun, Jan 16, 2000 at 20:40:36 (GMT)
__ michael -:- You idiot! -:- Sun, Jan 16, 2000 at 03:46:03 (GMT)

Sir Dave -:- Embarassing poll now online -:- Sun, Jan 16, 2000 at 02:01:33 (GMT)
__ the joyous voyer -:- Embarassing poll now online -:- Sun, Jan 16, 2000 at 18:55:25 (GMT)
__ __ Deputy Dog -:- Now that's being poled! (nt) -:- Mon, Jan 17, 2000 at 03:11:32 (GMT)
__ Anon -:- Embarassing poll now online -:- Sun, Jan 16, 2000 at 12:01:44 (GMT)
__ Ben Lurking -:- Embarassing poll now online -:- Sun, Jan 16, 2000 at 04:40:39 (GMT)

pat -:- in danger to himself... -:- Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 19:31:36 (GMT)
__ Jean-Michel -:- You couln't be more right -:- Sun, Jan 16, 2000 at 00:27:34 (GMT)
__ Mr D -:- Christ, you must be psychic -:- Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 19:58:50 (GMT)

Christopher -:- Honest opinion -:- Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 17:32:35 (GMT)
__ Anon -:- Honest opinion -:- Sun, Jan 16, 2000 at 14:06:17 (GMT)
__ __ Robyn -:- Honest opinion -:- Tues, Jan 18, 2000 at 03:17:24 (GMT)
__ __ __ Christopher -:- Honest opinion -:- Tues, Jan 18, 2000 at 21:05:22 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Robyn -:- Honest opinion -:- Tues, Jan 18, 2000 at 23:19:01 (GMT)
__ __ __ Anon -:- Honest opinion -:- Tues, Jan 18, 2000 at 20:08:07 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Robyn -:- Honest opinion -:- Tues, Jan 18, 2000 at 23:22:38 (GMT)
__ __ Christopher -:- Honest opinion -:- Mon, Jan 17, 2000 at 14:53:07 (GMT)
__ Powerman -:- Honest opinion -:- Sun, Jan 16, 2000 at 00:00:51 (GMT)
__ __ He robbed our innocense -:- Honest opinion -:- Sun, Jan 16, 2000 at 03:43:18 (GMT)
__ Michael -:- Honest opinion -:- Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 20:15:25 (GMT)
__ hamzen -:- His Complete & utter lack -:- Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 19:35:47 (GMT)
__ __ la-ex -:- big beef about our lard -:- Sun, Jan 16, 2000 at 06:04:36 (GMT)
__ __ __ ex triple ex -:- big beef about our lard -:- Sun, Jan 16, 2000 at 14:03:30 (GMT)
__ Mr D -:- Honest opinion -:- Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 19:12:05 (GMT)
__ __ Mr D -:- But worst of all -:- Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 19:55:19 (GMT)
__ mimi -:- Honest opinion my friend... -:- Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 18:21:18 (GMT)
__ __ Christopher -:- shurely shome mishtake ... -:- Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 18:31:14 (GMT)
__ __ __ oops -:- shurely shome mishtake ... -:- Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 18:43:23 (GMT)
__ Ms. K -:- Honest opinion -:- Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 18:19:23 (GMT)
__ Helen -:- My biggest beef -:- Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 17:44:56 (GMT)
__ __ Sifting -:- My biggest beef=kiss his feet -:- Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 18:09:24 (GMT)
__ Robyn -:- Honest opinion -:- Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 17:44:37 (GMT)
__ __ JW -:- Maharaji's Smug Arrogance -:- Sun, Jan 16, 2000 at 07:07:57 (GMT)
__ __ Helen -:- procrastinating exercise -:- Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 17:47:48 (GMT)

Deputy Dog -:- Wrong . . . ???? -:- Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 15:35:57 (GMT)
__ Christopher -:- Wrong . . . ???? -:- Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 17:14:42 (GMT)
__ __ Michael -:- My life DOES work (NT) -:- Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 17:22:35 (GMT)
__ __ __ Deputy Dog -:- Clarification -:- Sun, Jan 16, 2000 at 17:47:31 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Mike -:- Hey Dep!!!! -:- Tues, Jan 18, 2000 at 15:08:38 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Genital Consensualsex -:- Clarification -:- Sun, Jan 16, 2000 at 19:41:35 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Deputy Dog -:- Clarification -:- Mon, Jan 17, 2000 at 02:55:02 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Genital Consensualsex -:- Clarification -:- Mon, Jan 17, 2000 at 03:02:26 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Deputy Dog -:- Clarification -:- Mon, Jan 17, 2000 at 03:18:07 (GMT)

Devotee -:- The facts -:- Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 07:58:44 (GMT)
__ hamzen -:- The facts -:- Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 19:44:34 (GMT)
__ Mr D -:- Here are the true facts -:- Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 15:40:43 (GMT)
__ mumu -:- The facts: It's a cult -:- Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 08:15:55 (GMT)
__ __ Errol Flynn -:- The facts: It's a cult -:- Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 14:19:15 (GMT)
__ __ __ Christopher -:- The facts: It's a cult -:- Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 15:01:32 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Errol Flynn -:- Deprogramming is a Con. -:- Sun, Jan 16, 2000 at 01:47:36 (GMT)
__ __ __ Mrs Flynn -:- It's now Moomoo culture(nt) -:- Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 14:33:20 (GMT)
__ __ CD -:- there are no facts -:- Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 09:08:46 (GMT)
__ __ __ Mike -:- there are no facts -:- Tues, Jan 18, 2000 at 15:19:06 (GMT)
__ __ __ Scott T. -:- there are no facts -:- Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 16:00:59 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ CD -:- there is da kind -:- Sun, Jan 16, 2000 at 08:31:01 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Mike -:- it's 'da kine,' CD! -:- Tues, Jan 18, 2000 at 15:22:56 (GMT)
__ bb -:- The facts -:- Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 08:12:47 (GMT)
__ __ CD -:- fun in the land of factual -:- Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 09:14:34 (GMT)
__ __ __ bb -:- CD -:- Sun, Jan 16, 2000 at 18:29:51 (GMT)
__ __ __ Scott T. -:- fun in the land of factual -:- Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 16:20:27 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ CD -:- justified repression -:- Sun, Jan 16, 2000 at 08:36:18 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Shifting -:- fun in the land of factual -:- Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 16:33:02 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Christopher -:- Rumour that he'd been blocked? -:- Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 16:54:21 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ blocked by whom? -:- Rumour that he'd been blocked? -:- Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 17:24:50 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Mr D -:- Rumour that he'd been blocked? -:- Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 17:39:50 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Scott T. -:- Rumour that he'd been blocked? -:- Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 17:50:02 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Ms. K -:- Ask the Forum Admins -:- Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 18:12:45 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Christopher -:- :ßo oops -:- Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 19:08:56 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Roger eDrek -:- :ßo oops -:- Sun, Jan 16, 2000 at 20:34:56 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Roger eDrek -:- What Ever Happened to Jim? -:- Sun, Jan 16, 2000 at 20:38:34 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ selene jim's biggest fan -:- What Ever Happened to Jim? -:- Mon, Jan 17, 2000 at 01:43:55 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Ms. K -:- Worm Can -:- Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 19:40:00 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Christopher -:- Worm Can -:- Mon, Jan 17, 2000 at 09:34:08 (GMT)

Runamok -:- mark of the con -:- Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 07:47:11 (GMT)
__ Scott T. -:- The Fifth Technique -:- Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 17:57:11 (GMT)
__ __ Christopher -:- Life's a ball. So swing!(nt) -:- Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 18:07:16 (GMT)
__ mumu -:- Maharaji is very spiritual -:- Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 08:01:02 (GMT)
__ __ Jean-Michel -:- Why can't you understand -:- Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 08:45:47 (GMT)
__ __ __ Mike -:- BWA HA HA HA HA HA! -:- Tues, Jan 18, 2000 at 15:29:41 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Jean-Michel -:- I'm sorry, send me the bill! -:- Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 10:19:50 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Mike -:- It's OK -:- Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 15:49:53 (GMT)
__ __ __ Robyn -:- Why can't you understand -:- Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 16:48:35 (GMT)
__ meme -:- mark of the con -:- Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 07:54:21 (GMT)
__ __ Scott T. -:- mark of the con -:- Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 18:09:54 (GMT)
__ __ __ Jean-Michel -:- Downloading Knowledge? -:- Sun, Jan 16, 2000 at 00:34:39 (GMT)
__ __ __ meme -:- god IS SO very much STUPID! -:- Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 18:28:47 (GMT)
__ bb -:- mark of the con -:- Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 07:51:41 (GMT)

Brian -:- Forum IV Archives fixed -:- Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 03:16:13 (GMT)
__ Sifting -:- Forum IV Archives fixed -:- Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 03:27:13 (GMT)
__ __ Roger eDrek -:- Forum IV Archives fixed -:- Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 06:42:47 (GMT)
__ __ __ do you mean -:- thankyou or gee thanks?(nt) -:- Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 07:24:52 (GMT)

Junior -:- BM deserves help -:- Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 01:50:10 (GMT)

Jean-Michel -:- I'm jealous nobody fighting me -:- Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 21:40:18 (GMT)
__ bb -:- I'm jealous nobody fighting me -:- Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 07:41:24 (GMT)
__ __ Robyn -:- hi bb! :) Up late too! (nt) -:- Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 07:46:16 (GMT)
__ Phred -:- I'm jealous nobody fighting me -:- Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 05:52:27 (GMT)
__ __ Robyn -:- light -:- Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 07:45:10 (GMT)
__ Robyn -:- I'm jealous nobody fighting me -:- Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 22:45:55 (GMT)
__ Roger eDrek -:- That can be arranged -:- Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 22:22:08 (GMT)
__ __ Roger eDrek -:- It's much, much worse! -:- Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 07:40:39 (GMT)
__ __ __ Shifting -:- What a good laugh... -:- Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 07:48:12 (GMT)
__ Sifting -:- I'm jealous nobody fighting me -:- Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 22:20:03 (GMT)
__ michael -:- I'm jealous nobody fighting me -:- Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 21:57:07 (GMT)
__ __ Robyn -:- I'm jealous nobody fighting me -:- Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 22:51:02 (GMT)
__ __ __ michael -:- I'm jealous nobody fighting me -:- Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 04:53:12 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Robyn -:- I'm jealous nobody fighting me -:- Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 16:50:47 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ michael -:- who is fighting who? -:- Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 23:57:30 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Robyn -:- who is fighting who? -:- Sun, Jan 16, 2000 at 01:26:49 (GMT)
__ Selene -:- I'm jealous nobody fighting me -:- Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 21:52:37 (GMT)
__ __ Selene aka Jean-Michel -:- I'm jealous nobody fighting me -:- Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 22:05:37 (GMT)
__ __ __ selene -:- I'm jealous nobody fighting me -:- Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 22:25:30 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Heidi -:- You *itch -:- Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 07:10:27 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- You *itch -:- Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 22:31:07 (GMT)
__ Jean-Michel -:- Even Prem doesn't want to! -:- Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 21:42:35 (GMT)
__ __ Deputy Dog -:- Even Prem doesn't want to! -:- Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 03:37:02 (GMT)
__ __ Runamok -:- Even Prem doesn't want to! -:- Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 01:45:21 (GMT)

Des Perado -:- Me and you -:- Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 20:19:53 (GMT)
__ Christopher -:- You and who? -:- Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 20:26:30 (GMT)
__ __ The Postmistress -:- you is Des Perado's Big brothe -:- Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 20:42:08 (GMT)
__ __ __ General Concensus -:- you is Des Perado's Big brothe -:- Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 21:29:12 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Robyn -:- you is Des Perado's Big brothe -:- Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 03:39:16 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Scott T. -:- you is Des Perado's Big brothe -:- Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 21:47:33 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- you is Des Perado's Big brothe -:- Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 22:35:31 (GMT)
__ __ __ Christopher -:- Sons ...? -:- Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 21:22:49 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Reverand Concensus -:- Sons ...? -:- Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 21:35:00 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Christopher -:- and lovers ...? -:- Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 21:39:10 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ christopher -:- and daughters ...? -:- Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 21:32:22 (GMT)

Carol -:- The Way -:- Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 19:28:40 (GMT)
__ bb -:- NOT The Way! -:- Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 08:04:05 (GMT)
__ __ Anon -:- NOT The Way! -:- Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 21:57:15 (GMT)
__ __ __ bb -:- Anon and Carol:) -:- Sun, Jan 16, 2000 at 18:44:04 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Anon -:- Anon and Carol:) -:- Sun, Jan 16, 2000 at 20:49:16 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Anon -:- Anon and Carol:) -:- Sun, Jan 16, 2000 at 20:49:14 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ bb -:- Anon and Carol:) -:- Tues, Jan 18, 2000 at 03:03:38 (GMT)
__ __ Carol -:- NOT The Way!(I know that) -:- Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 09:12:19 (GMT)
__ bb -:- Where is JIM........(nt) -:- Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 07:45:34 (GMT)
__ __ Carol -:- Yeah, I wondered that,too -:- Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 09:15:26 (GMT)
__ __ bb -:- Did you smoke pot tonight?..nt -:- Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 07:47:15 (GMT)
__ __ __ carol -:- No, haven't for years and -:- Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 09:18:07 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ bb -:- No, haven't for years and -:- Sun, Jan 16, 2000 at 18:32:49 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ carol -:- It's cool,I'm cool, you're OK -:- Mon, Jan 17, 2000 at 18:50:13 (GMT)
__ Your angel -:- The Way -:- Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 01:43:15 (GMT)
__ __ carol -:- Thankyou -:- Mon, Jan 17, 2000 at 19:19:46 (GMT)
__ __ Scott T. -:- The Way -:- Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 14:05:30 (GMT)
__ Robyn -:- The Way -:- Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 23:05:11 (GMT)
__ __ carol -:- No one way just your own way! -:- Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 09:08:54 (GMT)
__ __ __ Robyn -:- No one way just your own way! -:- Sun, Jan 16, 2000 at 03:13:56 (GMT)
__ __ __ Helen -:- judging good bad etc -:- Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 17:14:34 (GMT)
__ __ __ Scott T. -:- No one way just your own way! -:- Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 13:52:30 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Helen -:- I agree Scott -:- Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 17:27:16 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Scott T. -:- I agree Scott -:- Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 17:46:56 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Helen -:- Leaders like GW, TJ, FDR -:- Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 17:56:53 (GMT)
__ Powerman -:- The Way -:- Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 22:35:54 (GMT)
__ Scott T. -:- The Flawed Master -:- Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 22:29:07 (GMT)
__ __ carol -:- The Flawed Master -:- Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 10:10:23 (GMT)
__ __ __ Christopher -:- The Flawed Logic -:- Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 13:43:19 (GMT)
__ __ __ Scott T. -:- The Flawed Master -:- Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 13:18:02 (GMT)
__ __ Scott T. -:- Correction -:- Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 22:33:45 (GMT)
__ Pat -:- WHERE>>> -:- Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 20:24:52 (GMT)
__ __ carol -:- Oregon, see white pages nt -:- Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 10:12:13 (GMT)
__ selene -:- The Way -:- Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 20:22:03 (GMT)
__ __ carol -:- Yes it is Yours!!! -:- Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 10:18:08 (GMT)
__ __ __ Selene -:- posting here -:- Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 22:48:27 (GMT)
__ Christopher -:- No way!!! ... ??? -:- Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 20:11:54 (GMT)
__ __ michael -:- No way!!! ... ??? -:- Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 20:23:34 (GMT)
__ __ __ christopher -:- No way!!! ... ??? -:- Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 20:30:21 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Helen -:- kind and wonderful -:- Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 17:36:13 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Scott T. -:- kind and wonderful -:- Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 19:35:17 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Helen -:- the terrible void -:- Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 22:17:06 (GMT)
__ Runamok -:- The Way -:- Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 20:01:06 (GMT)
__ __ Robyn -:- well said Run (nt) -:- Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 23:13:03 (GMT)
__ Des Perado -:- The Way -:- Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 19:53:13 (GMT)
__ __ Des Perado -:- What are you doing tomorrow -:- Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 20:01:10 (GMT)
__ __ __ Christopher -:- What are you doing tomorrow -:- Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 20:17:16 (GMT)

Christopher -:- The Maha in the modern world -:- Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 18:36:37 (GMT)
__ Jean-Michel -:- The Maha is usually edited -:- Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 22:03:48 (GMT)

Jean-Michel -:- Interesting article by E Fromm -:- Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 17:18:03 (GMT)
__ Shifting -:- Interesting article by E Fromm -:- Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 21:53:37 (GMT)
__ __ Shifting -:- Interesting article by E Fromm -:- Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 18:35:48 (GMT)

Your guess for what -:- a 'totally unique event' is. -:- Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 04:11:30 (GMT)
__ Mike -:- Spent alot of money..... -:- Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 14:51:03 (GMT)
__ __ Jean-Michel -:- No no no, you're all wrong -:- Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 07:19:13 (GMT)
__ __ __ shifting -:- No no no, you're all wrong -:- Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 07:25:23 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Jean-Michel -:- Why not? -:- Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 09:26:36 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Shifting -:- OH! It was fiction? -:- Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 16:52:33 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Jean-Michel -:- here's my email -:- Sun, Jan 16, 2000 at 00:38:35 (GMT)

Ebay Guru alert -:- let's see what this sells for -:- Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 04:09:06 (GMT)
__ Heading out -:- for some Ice Cream -:- Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 04:13:57 (GMT)

la-ex -:- claudia's book/bad poetry -:- Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 04:09:00 (GMT)

Christopher -:- Cainer defects -:- Thurs, Jan 13, 2000 at 20:55:53 (GMT)
__ Scott T. -:- Cainer defects -:- Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 15:44:11 (GMT)
__ __ Christopher -:- Cainer defects -:- Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 16:48:29 (GMT)
__ mimi -:- Cainer defects=Great Link -:- Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 04:53:28 (GMT)
__ __ Christopher -:- ... and there's more -:- Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 18:12:16 (GMT)
__ __ __ Way -:- Jim, if you are lurking, -:- Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 18:40:24 (GMT)

RE Administrator -:- 'Recent Exes' Forum -:- Thurs, Jan 13, 2000 at 16:42:41 (GMT)
__ General Concensus -:- 'Recent Exes' Forum -:- Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 02:02:33 (GMT)
__ __ Runamok -:- 'Recent Exes' Forum -:- Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 16:14:11 (GMT)
__ __ __ Oh I get it... -:- It's all a joke. -:- Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 16:45:06 (GMT)
__ __ Katie -:- 'Recent Exes' Forum -:- Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 02:32:31 (GMT)
__ __ __ General Concensus -:- 'Recent Exes' Forum -:- Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 03:40:11 (GMT)
__ __ Selene -:- 'Recent Exes' Forum -:- Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 02:10:47 (GMT)
__ __ __ Robyn -:- 'Recent Exes' Forum -:- Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 02:58:00 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ This could be you... -:- 'Recent Exes' Forum -:- Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 03:56:58 (GMT)

Nirvana -:- Oct. 1990 Challenger Project -:- Thurs, Jan 13, 2000 at 04:59:16 (GMT)
__ JW -:- Oct. 1990 Challenger Project -:- Thurs, Jan 13, 2000 at 19:08:40 (GMT)
__ __ link -:- Oct. 1990 Challenger Project -:- Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 03:53:07 (GMT)
__ __ __ Eugenesis -:- Oct. 1990 Challenger Project -:- Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 04:07:09 (GMT)
__ Gregg -:- Towelheads and Girlfriends: nt -:- Thurs, Jan 13, 2000 at 17:29:20 (GMT)
__ mimi -:- Oct. 1990 Challenger Project -:- Thurs, Jan 13, 2000 at 05:10:05 (GMT)
__ __ I'm a Negative Creep -:- Hello, little girl -:- Thurs, Jan 13, 2000 at 05:55:14 (GMT)
__ __ __ mimi -:- Hello, little girl -:- Thurs, Jan 13, 2000 at 06:00:15 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Nirvana -:- Nevermind -:- Thurs, Jan 13, 2000 at 06:15:58 (GMT)

ME -:- PICTURES OF GOD -:- Thurs, Jan 13, 2000 at 02:24:07 (GMT)
__ Mike -:- I Wonder....... -:- Thurs, Jan 13, 2000 at 22:41:30 (GMT)
__ __ Scott T. -:- I Wonder....... -:- Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 19:33:33 (GMT)
__ __ __ Mike -:- BWAH HA HA HA HA HA HA -:- Tues, Jan 18, 2000 at 14:43:43 (GMT)
__ Jean-Michel -:- Lots of old stuff online here! -:- Thurs, Jan 13, 2000 at 17:20:07 (GMT)
__ Shifting -:- PICTURES OF GOD -:- Thurs, Jan 13, 2000 at 15:44:51 (GMT)

john -:- anything goes -:- Thurs, Jan 13, 2000 at 00:48:23 (GMT)
__ Sir Dave -:- Here's the link and more! -:- Thurs, Jan 13, 2000 at 01:42:13 (GMT)
__ __ Selene -:- Here's the link and more! -:- Thurs, Jan 13, 2000 at 01:46:53 (GMT)

corvuscorax -:- Why am i working night shift w -:- Thurs, Jan 13, 2000 at 00:23:12 (GMT)

JW -:- Question Re Finances and Taxes -:- Wed, Jan 12, 2000 at 19:28:51 (GMT)
__ Nirvana -:- Here's what I got -:- Thurs, Jan 13, 2000 at 04:04:24 (GMT)
__ __ CD -:- Here's what I got -:- Thurs, Jan 13, 2000 at 06:37:43 (GMT)
__ __ __ Mike -:- CD, why???? -:- Thurs, Jan 13, 2000 at 22:50:28 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ CD -:- why -:- Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 01:57:39 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Scott T. -:- The Rodent Dances (crude) -:- Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 21:06:41 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Mike -:- Oh, get real -:- Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 14:44:56 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ CD -:- real real -:- Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 09:43:34 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Scott T. -:- real real -:- Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 14:38:34 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ bb -:- why -:- Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 04:02:29 (GMT)
__ __ Nirvana -:- I'm dying to help Maharaji -:- Thurs, Jan 13, 2000 at 06:03:22 (GMT)
__ __ __ Mike -:- I'm dying to help Maharaji -:- Thurs, Jan 13, 2000 at 23:01:29 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Mike -:- Not only that...... -:- Thurs, Jan 13, 2000 at 23:05:53 (GMT)

la-ex -:- old files about monica,jagdeo. -:- Wed, Jan 12, 2000 at 02:28:27 (GMT)
__ Sir Dave -:- old files about monica,jagdeo. -:- Wed, Jan 12, 2000 at 03:17:19 (GMT)
__ __ bb -:- old files about monica,jagdeo. -:- Wed, Jan 12, 2000 at 06:12:59 (GMT)
__ __ __ Marianne -:- locate old threads too -:- Wed, Jan 12, 2000 at 12:26:34 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Link -:- locate old threads too -:- Wed, Jan 12, 2000 at 21:49:51 (GMT)

la-ex -:- 'Life imitates fart' -:- Wed, Jan 12, 2000 at 02:25:23 (GMT)
__ Did you stay up all night -:- thinking about that one? -:- Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 01:59:12 (GMT)
__ Sir Dave -:- For those who can't afford it -:- Wed, Jan 12, 2000 at 05:43:09 (GMT)
__ __ Des Perado -:- I'm Speechless -:- Wed, Jan 12, 2000 at 11:27:28 (GMT)
__ __ Runamok -:- Good links, Sir D! -:- Wed, Jan 12, 2000 at 06:31:52 (GMT)
__ __ Sir Dave (again) -:- And talking of which -:- Wed, Jan 12, 2000 at 06:14:46 (GMT)
__ __ __ Christopher -:- And talking of which -:- Wed, Jan 12, 2000 at 18:24:01 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Sir Dave -:- And talking of which -:- Wed, Jan 12, 2000 at 18:34:17 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ JW -:- Truth About M site is 7! ! -:- Wed, Jan 12, 2000 at 19:52:15 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Christopher -:- Place your bets! ... (nt) -:- Wed, Jan 12, 2000 at 21:29:23 (GMT)
__ __ __ Vista -:- And talking of which -:- Wed, Jan 12, 2000 at 07:40:05 (GMT)

Larkin -:- Ballad of premie ji -:- Wed, Jan 12, 2000 at 02:08:43 (GMT)
__ JW -:- Excellent and **BEST** -:- Wed, Jan 12, 2000 at 19:39:48 (GMT)

JW -:- Maharaji: DESPERATE for MONEY -:- Wed, Jan 12, 2000 at 00:43:12 (GMT)
__ mimi -:- Maharaji: DESPERATE for MONEY -:- Thurs, Jan 13, 2000 at 05:28:06 (GMT)
__ Sir Dave -:- Maharaji: DESPERATE for MONEY -:- Wed, Jan 12, 2000 at 01:31:32 (GMT)

JW -:- Mail Order Knowledge -:- Wed, Jan 12, 2000 at 00:19:49 (GMT)
__ Powerman -:- Mail Order Knowledge -:- Wed, Jan 12, 2000 at 14:42:08 (GMT)
__ __ Jean-Michel -:- What you can't see ..... -:- Wed, Jan 12, 2000 at 15:18:17 (GMT)
__ will it come in a brown -:- paper wrapper? -:- Wed, Jan 12, 2000 at 05:24:23 (GMT)
__ __ Mike -:- paper wrapper? -:- Thurs, Jan 13, 2000 at 23:11:08 (GMT)
__ __ Ugghhhh -:- I'll pass? -:- Thurs, Jan 13, 2000 at 18:46:28 (GMT)
__ gerry -:- Make a great MLM, too -:- Wed, Jan 12, 2000 at 01:28:53 (GMT)


Date: Mon, Jan 17, 2000 at 15:16:01 (GMT)
From: zorro6
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: cruel treatment of premies ius
Message:
i think one of the best ways to reveal the truth of this whole scam is to post the vicious treatment of premies we have witnessed.I remember witnessing a ashram president named bruce tormenting a premie at satsang in san francisco by screeming in his ear until the poor fellow became emotional and began sceeming.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Jan 18, 2000 at 18:55:10 (GMT)
From: Another Guy
Email: None
To: zorro6
Subject: cruel treatment
Message:
'I remember witnessing a ashram president named bruce tormenting a premie at satsang'

Sounds like a real case for Amnesty International.

I witnessed Donald Trump running for President! You tell me what's actually worse.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 08:01:41 (GMT)
From: carol
Email: None
To: Another Guy
Subject: I said, By M??????
Message:
Premies are responsible for their own acts, however much they may have thought hey were doing their duties!
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 01:16:14 (GMT)
From: Special Agent
Email: None
To: The world at large.
Subject: Would you believe it??
Message:
Ok, here's the scoop!
After doing lot of print-outs, spellchecks, word density analysis, grammatical analyisis, structural analyisis etc, comparing Cynthias and Carols posts, there is none other that they are remotely similar to - yet Carols and Cynthias fit like a glove even though they present wildly different fronts, in reality they are THE SAME PERSON!!
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 08:39:17 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: carol
Subject: Yes, by Rawat Himself!
Message:
with the instructors/initiators, full time and part-time.

I could elaborate a lot on this. No time for the moment. And a lot has already been said here on this. Maybe someone could dig out some old posts for you.

And don't underestimate the impact instructors had (still have?) in communities! Not speaking of women abuses and pedophiles.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 19:04:06 (GMT)
From: carol
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Yes, by Rawat Himself!
Message:
I answered your post with the new thread called Find Your porpoise! (-:
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Jan 17, 2000 at 17:04:34 (GMT)
From: carol
Email: None
To: zorro6
Subject: cruel treatment of premies ius
Message:
Are there any of you who know firsthand personal experience of Maharaji treating you or someone you know abusively? Anything else is heresay and and has travelled through many mouths or pens (well keboards!)

Whatever the premies did that was cruel to eachother was done in ignorance of who you/they/ them/ we really are! I did my share or righteous and judgemental relating to others when I didn't know any better, even quite recently! We did not get instant enlightenment when we got knowledge, even if some of us thought we did! We were given some tools and some of the directions we incorrect.

The only way does not exist. Find the way inside of you to grow your compassion! I know firsthand that everyone changes many times over and it does not take someone who hurt you to apologize for you to be able to see them differently.

Love Carol

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Jan 18, 2000 at 23:31:27 (GMT)
From: JW
Email: None
To: carol
Subject: Okay....here
Message:
99% of the premies spent almost zero time around M except when he was sitting up on a throne at programs so they likely didn't see much of M's abusive behavior. But I did witness abusive behavior by him against premies. If Chr is around, he has witnessed it as well and has posted it here in the past. Look in the archives if you want to see it.

I saw Maharaji torment premies who were trying to 'serve' him in building a stage for Hans Jayanti. He was cruel, abusive, and childish, constantly ridiculing what was done, with ZERO input as to what he actually wanted. Since these premies believed he was the incarnation of god and that they should be able to do what he wanted IF they were surrendered enough, they were completely vulnerable to him, were not in a position to tell him to fuck off, which they should have and it was completely abusive to them.

I have heard a number of other stories about M's abusive behavior toward his devotees, from people whom I trust enormously and hence I believe them, but being the peon premie I was, that was the only abusive treatment I personally witnessed, EXCEPT::::

I think a number of the satsangs M gave were abusive in that they were an attempt to destroy our self esteem, make us feel worthless without HIM and generally belittle any individuality or independent thought we might have. Any premie who are around in the 70s and early 80s will know what I am talking about.

I do agree though, I tend to blame M more than the premies for the abusive behavior premies layed on each other, but not entirely. I think the premies themselves still retain some responsiblity. I saw David Smith, for example, inflict sadistic, abusive behavior on ashram premies, and although he was/is certainly a cult-robot, given authority by Maharaji to carry out his sadistic pleasures on vulnerable people, he still retains some personal responsiblity.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 17:56:00 (GMT)
From: Me
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: Okay....here
Message:
Totally grandious he came to the dock with his boat, to a house where many premies, I was one, were doing service because one of the babysitters of mahaha's children's birthday, and she invited him. He came to tell her that Hansi didn't want to come to the party so he was going to stay home with him. Before leaving, he asked: 'What's going on J...? (The birthday girl) She responded that she was trying to make everything perfect for him, inciting him to stay. He responded only this: 'J.., don't you know only Knowledge is perfect?' He said it in such a way, nasty... All the premies came out of the house, many. Not one thank. Not one kind word. There he was, flaunting his 'shine'.

BTW, I personally clean two bottles of white wine Zinsandel, which I was told were for him that day. When you are out of the cult you see the reality of the past. He thinks he is god. Period.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 08:52:20 (GMT)
From: carol
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: Okay....here
Message:
Yes, I agree with you that premies are only partly responsible because they were behaving as they thought they were supposed to given the times when M was behaving rather badly himself and making fear and power more important than love. I think hae made many mistakes. I also know that he had some characteristics of of other humans his age at these times: an adolescent from age 12 to 24 or so, when this stuff took place, with more power and freedom and money than most any adolescent can handle!

Did his mistakes or his abuses change the fact that he taught us an excellent way to meditate (and for some of us, a way to connect to the deepest love we'd ever known inside of us)? I don't think so. I understand and forgive my abusers. It was the only way that really brought my healing into reality of my daily life.

I may be crazy or stupid in some others' eyes, but I value all my experiences for what they have taught me and how they have challenged me to learn to forgive as well as assert to myself. I am not afraid of any challenge. I have become a competent and self-confident person who has alligned most of my values with most of my actions and responses.

Would I be the person I am happy to be today without those 'bad' events in my life? i don't know! I was abused by others as a child, both physically, sexually, and emotionally. So were many, many others who were attracted to M. When I got K, I felt like I found out my true nature was not my body, I was my spirit. I felt pure!!! After some of the wild things I'd done and the abuse, I really needed to feel pure!

I felt love for myself and every one and I was especially helped by that vision I had of M being the one we sang about in arti, Perfect mother, Father , Brother , friend! I wanted to share 'my salvation' with others! I was pure of heart then, and I have moved closer to that state over the years! Being raped at 21 (August of 1972) by my only big brother,who I loved, right after getting K (by about a month) was quite a shock. It really helped me to have a new 'family' of supportive premies, when my birth family members and my husband, who I had separated from, were no help at all! The few premies I told were wonderful to me, and a couple of the guys wanted to 'go get him'! All those experiences helped my compassion to grow and made a desire in me to help others who had wounds of various kinds.

It was also quite a distraction and redirection from my woundedness, when I plunged into service and satsang and meditation and went to India for a month a short time after. It wasn't until years later when the pain of the events resurfaced, partly because I had forgotten the fact of my purity and true nature, that I began a different sort of healing path. But even after years of traditional and group therapy, it was my embracing and practicing forgiveness that made healing come as near to completion as I've ever felt. I mean, I understand the pain and sickness my brother had caused him to be able to do what he did. I know that people who have done terrible things, can and do change. I still love my brother. I loved him even when I had to tell myself he was dead to me! It was that love and loss that made his injury to me so painful. I had lost him forever, I thought. I was justified in never forgiving him! Everyone knows that! But, I did not heal until I forgave with all my heart and re-embraced the love I still carried inside my heart for him!

What has M done to you or any one of his premies that is too terrible to forgive! NOTHING! (My experience and my firm belief!) There is nothing that cannot be forgiven, and it is our biggest challenge in life to learn to love unconditionally!

A crisis = dangerous opportunity (in Chinese characters)

Love, carol

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 04:03:41 (GMT)
From: bb
Email: None
To: carol
Subject: greatest love??
Message:
Uh Carol,
dont overlook that we are supposed to do the techniques
15 minutes and in order.

I dont recall hearing from any premies or initiators
that they just experienced the great love in meditation.
REmember? he told us that having devotion to him was it
period and by the way, YOU cannot get to 'that experience',
remember he told the instructors that they were scratching
at a wall of steel 900 feet thick and they hadnt even scratched
the surface yet.

What chance did anyone have?

Even in the latest video, he says,-inch by inch (after 30
years) we are getting closer to 'ourselves'.

Carol, it is bizarre.

There is never attainment.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 16:50:42 (GMT)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: carol
Subject: Carol, hear me out....
Message:
I think because you have had such awful experiences with abuse you might be able to hear what I am saying....

Did you read Abi's post about Jagdeo? Did you read my journey?( under G'mom ) read the link too on Sir Dave's 'truth about Maharaj ji ' website, that has Abi's post too.

Your present day Rawat, and apparently some of his closest devotees, have conspired to lie and cover up their knowledge of the truth about this. Why? To protect Rawat I am sure. They are pretending he did not know, when he did. 'gaslighting' me. These are not good moral people. They are not people who take responsibility and stand up for the truth. They are selfish cowards. Rawat being the biggest one of all. As all he has to say is 'tell the truth' and they would.

Just like the Wizard of Oz what Rawat 'revealed' to you was something that is within you. The difference is the wizard came clean. Rawat isn't the only one showing these techniques. He isn't the only one exploiting them for personal gain either. Carol, he is a creep. A fraud. A bad guy. Imagine someone tried to 'tell' about your brother. Imagine you told Rawat about your brother via initiators and you KNEW he heard based on their responses to you. Knowing things they could not have known unless they heard. Imagine years later being stonewalled and lied to in order to cover up the truth. How would you feel? And how could you possibly hold any hope that this guy was even a good person , never mind something divine. Carol, believe me I am telling the truth, Rawat doesn't protect little kids, he protects himself.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 15:14:16 (GMT)
From: Anon
Email: None
To: carol
Subject: Okay....here
Message:
Did his mistakes or his abuses change the fact that he taught us an excellent way to meditate (and for some of us, a way to connect to the deepest love we'd ever known inside of us)? I don't think so.

Maybe not, but I think that the fact that he has not had the strength of character (moral integrity or whatever) to admit or apologise for his mistakes, or furthermore try to really help those who have been affected or confused, says something about his trustworthiness as a Master.

I cannot help but see this reluctance, or inability of his to discuss past woes, as being a display of avoidance, which all the more suggests that he has feet of clay. Let's face it, he still is very arrogant and dismissive of people who complain. As I said lower down. If there was nothing to complain about there would be no complainers. I frankly suspect that his admonition to people to stop complaining is partially an attempt to keep things swept well under the carpet.

What worries me about your attitude (albeit very forgiving and kind) is that by continuing to give the benefit of the doubt to Maharaji (who although he would clearly like us to be impressed that he has 'moved on' and positively reformed, has not yet truthfully cleared up the mess he has left in his wake) one is potentially further bloating his self-confidence, which is already amply empowered by his many unquestioning followers. This could not only be bad for his character, but it could also be harmful to those who continue to put their trust in him (should he decide to repeat his mistakes)

Another thing is that although we may judge him generously by virtue of our personal experiences of Knowledge and trust him all the more because of the 'goodness' of our experiences, I strongly feel that this is naive reasoning, since our association of our inner experiences with him is so emphatically suggested to us by the external 'packaging'. (more on this another time I think)

I still fail to see why the Knowledge has to be only available from him. The imparting of Knowledge and the secrecy, and much of the other stuff, suggests to me that this monopoly of his, is more a thing of his own design than of Holt Writ!

Who really knows after all?

Maybe in future the knowledge could be broadly known and taught. Since I have suffered so much indoctrination, and have had so much difficulty in following Maharaji in the 'devotee' mode (what with all the fear-mongering when I was younger and being pressured by him to give up so much to live in ashrams etc.) I truly wonder if these past traditional ways of 'spreading knowledge' were no more than the highjacking of a commodity, that should have been freely available with no strings-attached, for the benefit of the Guru's and their immediate families, at the expense of their trusting followers. There is no doubting the religiosity of DLM and all the past gurus. One cannot help but see how religion is indeed the 'opiate of the people.' We except things to be as we are told because we don't want to rock the boat, especially since we are afraid that the captain may be God, and an ill-tempered one at that!

There really was so much fear mongering in the words of SatGurus to their followers...you know..'you'll come back as an insect if you dare cross your Guru' stuff. Read Shri Hans Ji's words on JM's website, if you doubt it. Maharaji repeated this indimidating sort of line when he was younger and it worked. All us god-fearing westerners fell for it too!

I think Maharaji owes us some straight answers to release us from the bonds of fear that he successfully traumatised us with when we were kids -for example: Does he now still think that, if you don't practice, you will experience the equivalent of tons of rotting vegetables in your life?

Did his mistakes or his abuses change the fact that he taught us..... a way to connect to the deepest love we'd ever known inside of us

Who's to say that he is really indispensible in the teaching of this deepest of experiences?(apart from him of course) Maybe if he hadn't enforced such a tight monopoly on the distribution, then we could all share this thing maganamously with our fellow men. (It has to be said that Maharaji has inadvertantly created a society of people who are demonstrably lacking in many of the human virtues that other people, without the benefit of his knowledge, have in plenty. It seems to me that premies sometimes assume they are on the right track, relegate responsiblity for their morals as a result, get lazy about their integrety, and before long end up as selfish, developmentally-arrested, unkind, thoughtless towards others, zealots, who bizarrely preach about the virtues of the Master who has elightened them to their true natures!

A quite impartial non-premie friend of mine came round, even just now, saying (quite without us being on the subject) that he found that of those people who he deals with, who are the most friendly when they want something from you but don't even cast a friendly glance in your direction if you have nothing they want-'vampiric' is a word that comes to mind- 'They...' said he, with a healthy relunctance to quickly criticise others but tangible honesty, 'usually... turn out to be Premies, I'm afraid'.

Carol, even though your better nature urges you to judge Maharaji generously and further to forgive him his bad old ways, please do not lose sight (because he has just bliss-bombed you with his home-spun and uncontentious video transmission!) that it is our duty as seekers for ultimate truth, not to compromise and that it may be a nobler thing to be actively critical or even Devils-Advocatish towards those who have once wielded power over others in truly questionable ways, for they may continue to do so if left unchallenged. If one truly loves someone one should feel free to criticise them honestly, especially if their behaviour is damaging to you or others.

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Date: Mon, Jan 17, 2000 at 18:14:19 (GMT)
From: Annon
Email: None
To: carol
Subject: Carol yer great post's gone!
Message:
Where did it go - was it assasinated?? Was it my imagination? Did it accidentally crumble into cyberbits and blow off into the cybersphere? Was it stretching the party line? Will we ever know? Was the post made in the first place?
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Date: Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 01:39:37 (GMT)
From: Anon
Email: None
To: Annon
Subject: Carols post hasn't gone at all
Message:
BTW I think the post you liked is still there down below..called 'The not so unique event'
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Date: Mon, Jan 17, 2000 at 20:11:47 (GMT)
From: Anon
Email: None
To: Annon
Subject: Carol yer great post's gone!
Message:

Anon responded:
This is not from me. Can't you be a be a bit more imaginative than 'Annon'?
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Date: Mon, Jan 17, 2000 at 20:26:25 (GMT)
From: Annon
Email: None
To: Anon
Subject: Carol yer great post's gone!
Message:
Hey Patrick - At least I misspell it to give it some flair:)
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Date: Tues, Jan 18, 2000 at 02:03:24 (GMT)
From: Anon
Email: None
To: Annon
Subject: Anonn's idea of a joke.
Message:
I was in two minds as to whether I should prolong this conversation. But since you profess to know me, I thought maybe there was the chance of some mutual respect and that my reaction to your posts would also be given some consideration.
I too enjoy Carols honesty (I happen to agree with you that it would be counter-productive if her post was deleted -I don't know what happened to it either).
Nevertheless, I would have thought that for someone who claims to recognise 'honesty' and such virtues, you would plainly see that that it is also counter-productive to play 'outing' games with those who wish to post here anonymously (for whatever personal reasons..that you don't know of course). Since you yourself have not given any clue to your own identity it is hardly right that you should reveal others.

Rather than complaining of the rarity of honesty around here, perhaps you might at least contribute an honest, substantial post of your own to correct the imbalance. Failing that, please would you have the good grace not to add to the disruptiveness, dishonesty and disrespect which you say you abhor.

BTW I personally have found it very helpful to post here, and feel that I have been as honest as possible when discussing my experiences of Maharaji and Knowledge. I also happen to think that there is plenty of honesty expressed in many of the posts and that one should 'take the rough with the smooth', as it were.

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Date: Mon, Jan 17, 2000 at 18:54:47 (GMT)
From: carol
Email: None
To: Annon
Subject: Which one? I'm unsure about it
Message:
My memory isn't very great...and I had so many great posts! (+; (wink)

Well, it is still hypocrisy if they try to get rid of me here. I'm just not sure if they did anything subversive to my post, though. Sorry if I wrongly accused anyone. (I'll go look for my answer to Robyn and see if it is there.) Might not be the same one you are thinking of........
Carol

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Date: Mon, Jan 17, 2000 at 20:19:47 (GMT)
From: Annon
Email: None
To: carol
Subject: Which one? I'm unsure about it
Message:
It's the one re-yesterdays satelite broadcast - It's refreshing to see someone not afraid of a bit of honesty in this joint - extremely rare:)
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Date: Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 09:49:25 (GMT)
From: carol
Email: None
To: Annon and bb and all
Subject: Honesty is not rare here...
Message:
Otherwise I wouldn't come here at all. I have never found people express themselves so true to their own current experience! Everyone is processing their experiences in their own way and time. Some of us have more rigidity in our minds and some of us have hardened our hearts. It is a natural defense of the person has been wounded. The feelings of being wounded are real and honest and we should validate the right of everyone to have and express the feelings they have!
I have no doubt that most of the stuff written about things that happened are true. I disagree with people's conclusions about the same events, and about the way to get over the past. It is my hope that every one will really find their own direction, whatever it may be, and be able to take the risk to really believe in the life and the guidance of their own hearts and minds.

We all make mistakes and commit ignorant or even intentional harm to others. Life is our training ground! We aren't good at it when we start! Anger is a temporary and effective defense against pain. Misinterpretations of words, intentions, and behaviors are common human errors to which no one is immune, even our greatest leaders!

Carol

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Date: Tues, Jan 18, 2000 at 03:57:35 (GMT)
From: A Premie
Email: scum@lotusfeet.con
To: Annon
Subject: We are so fortunate
Message:
You people don't realise how lucky you are, to even have him on the Earth and to be able to see him on TV is the greatest gift that we could ever hope for and it would be worth paying $3,000 for this privilage and I couldn't look at him oh no I was not worthy and I did full pranam to the TV throughout the broadcast and had the sound turned down because I am not even worthy to hear his voice and I was amazed that he would lower himself to talk to me because it's a personal thing he is always talking to me personaly even if I am not worthy enough to listen because the true premie knows that they can never thank him enough for the greatest gift which he has given and he needn't bother to give it because he could just stay in heaven and if he wanted to he could make everyone in the world turn blue and float three feet off the ground yes he said that once and it is only his grace that he hasn't done that and instead has brought peace to the world by ending the cold war and bringing peace to Northern Ireland it was his ulcer that did that and he only smokes to keep himself in his body otherwise he would float away and he is so humble that he suffers the verbal abuse from the expremies and yet never answers them because he does not understand the mind because he doesn't have one.
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Date: Tues, Jan 18, 2000 at 03:07:01 (GMT)
From: bb
Email: None
To: Annon
Subject: Which one? I'm unsure about it
Message:
Oh christ, extremely rare for honesty here?
stop reading. I will avoid your posts.
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Date: Mon, Jan 17, 2000 at 18:43:13 (GMT)
From: Carol
Email: None
To: Annon
Subject: Carol yer great post's gone!
Message:
I thought it must have been deleted because Robyn e-mailed me that I hadn't replied! Whoever did that is doing just like the folks at enjoying life.com. Editing to suit there purpose. I was so proud of the Forum for being the Forum! Or rather for the people who created and ran it. I even donated money to it when Brian asked for help to save it!

Here is what I cut and pasted from the intro to the Forum section of this site!!!!!!!!

The Forum is an unmoderated collection of ongoing threaded discussions where ex-premies, current premies, and non-premies express their views on anything and everything related to following Maharaji, practicing Knowledge, and life afterwards. We always welcome new participants to the Forum, but please read the following before you enter.

Is there a bit of HYPOCRISY happening here!!!!! carol the curious.

PS: If this is the case I would like to create an e-mail list of people who comunicate freely and respectfully with each other,disregarding allegiances and honoring each other's right to their own beliefs and changes of heart or mind. Anyone who is interested, please send your e-mail to me at rbruce@teleport.com

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Date: Mon, Jan 17, 2000 at 23:45:25 (GMT)
From: selene
Email: None
To: Carol
Subject: Carol yer great post's gone!
Message:
Hi Carol
My problem with email lists is, one person posts, seven answer, seven answer that post on and on. It is too overwhelming for me to have that kind of personal email coming at me.
I struggle to answer the ones I get already.
I don't know the solution. But personally you haven't been that outrageous here, IMO. Feathers get ruffled very easily here. To me it is a symptom of how fucked up we all got in our early adult years and I do blame in part the cult involvement. I know you may not agree with me here.
But really I just want to say, don't let people's opinions get to you - it isn't worth the hurt and anxiety. Believe me I know!
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Date: Mon, Jan 17, 2000 at 11:21:43 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Report of a SO UNIQUE event!
Message:
Here's what a friend of mine just reported me by email.
He's going to send more details in a few days ....

I just got home, from a friend's home, listening to the deluded master. I throw this here: It's so, so sad.
I would share so much with you that happenend there, but is now 9:30 p.m.
I tell you now some. I haven't being in the forum yet .... so, I don't know if you know what m said today.
It was so extremelly pathetic to look at, empty, the whole crap, and there were 6 premies in a trance watching. More pathetic were their remarks after he ended speaking. Anyway. Do you know what it said at the end, there it was a production of Wahadamar. I don't know what this means, but there it was the name again.
I am proud of myself that I did put questions in their head such us: Guys, do you still think m is the lord? They couldn't answer, but
you could feel their thoughts showed in their faces. Of course, they went to say that we (the old premies) hahaha not me, were so afortunated for having the opportunity to experience the yesterday ways.
I bitted my tongue to avoid talking. Well.....

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Date: Mon, Jan 17, 2000 at 22:55:46 (GMT)
From: la-ex
Email: None
To: JM
Subject: Unique event-don't worry
Message:
So, for those who didn't catch the most totally unique event last night, you are $30 richer, but a few laughs slighter...

And for those who are concerned about m's propagation and winning of new converts....

Don't Worry!

If this is the shape of things to come, there will be no new converts, very few premies, and a lot of unused satellite dishes...

M delivered the most classic example of totally vacuous, inane, cliche'd, new age fluff I have ever heard anyone give in any way, shape or fashion.
Graphics flashed on the screen such as 'existence is real' (or something close to that) in between m telling the faithful that 'it's about you', 'it's about me','it's about life', 'you don't have to shovel darkness out of your life, just turn on the light' etc...

m delivered the address behind a piano (an extremely rare expensive one that he bragged about getting a few years ago), with a don quixote type sculpture behind him (fitting, I thought, as he continues to chase windmills and fight dragons) and proceded to tell the faithful about a king and a beggar. He is obviously the king, we are the beggars. The beggar begs the king for a gold bowl-the king gives it to the beggar-the beggar doesn't know how to use it properly, and ends up begging the king to take the bowl back, as only the king knows how to properly use the bowl. Message? You are all beggars who don't know how to use the gift of life, so give it to m, who knows how to use it. And throw in a little gold while you're at it....

So, don't worry...

Anyone who chooses to buy this new age BS for $30 a pop deserves what they get....I doubt there will be any takers...a few of the more honest premies admitted that they were embarrassed by the whole thing....

As Abbie Hoffman once said-'If this guy (m) is God, then this is the god that materialistic america deserves!' I have since changed my views on america, but still like the quote...
Buyer beware....(but who in their right mind would even shop at the store?)

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Date: Tues, Jan 18, 2000 at 18:54:40 (GMT)
From: Christopher
Email: None
To: la-ex
Subject: Unique event-don't worry
Message:
So the Maha says: 'you don't have to shovel darkness out of your life, just turn on the light'

Just what is he hinting at, fer f**'s sake???

Like torturers, serial rapists, and other assorted bad guys are OK with Rawat, as long as they practise the meditation??? I wouldn't be surprised.

Let me guess, perhaps it was while practising the light technique that Myra Hindley got her brain aneurism.

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Date: Tues, Jan 18, 2000 at 00:11:53 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: la-ex
Subject: Guessing where's the money!
Message:
40 time 30 $ to watch that sort of crap this year?????????

1,200 $ is enough to have nice week holidays.

And Prempal Rawat used 10,000 x 30 $ to buy that astounding piece of art? There went your money premies!

That TV feed did only cost a few thoudands!

Where is your money?

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Date: Tues, Jan 18, 2000 at 05:32:00 (GMT)
From: Roger Compassionate eDrek
Email: drek@oz.net
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: I can't help but...
Message:
feel a little sorry for the old SatGuru.

If premies are embarrassed and maybe disappointed by the big show what does that say?

And a pre-recorded show at that.

For my own sake I really hope that we will have a strong fighting back adversary for years and years to come. I am not sure that I could handle having a really pathetic Maharaji having a nervous breakdown during a live satellite broadcast and demanding that everyone drink their Kool-Aid or eat their pudding and no one with a few hardcore exceptions like Joan Apter obeys the Master.

Let's make a deal, Maharaji. You pack up the tent, liquidate all of your assets and distribute all but one million U.S. to all past and current premies in some equitable way that takes into account the suffering and pain that each person suffered while being a devotee of you.

You get to walk away. You don't get hounded. It's over and done with.

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Date: Tues, Jan 18, 2000 at 18:16:50 (GMT)
From: Genital Consensualsex
Email: fourstars@generalconcensus.com
To: Roger Compassionate eDrek
Subject: I can't help but...
Message:
Hey Rog nice little word picture you painted there of Joan and Goober sharing a last bit of prashad kool aid. I saw the whole thing in flash. LOL, guess that makes me a sicko since I laughed out loud? Sheesh and double sheesh noone has any sense of humour anymour.(TM)
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Date: Tues, Jan 18, 2000 at 23:03:20 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: drek@oz.net
To: Genital Consensualsex
Subject: Kung Fu is the answer
Message:
Genital, I'm going to give you a special Kung Fu lesson to ensure that everything will be funny from that point on.

Genital Grasshopper, until then

Fuck You!
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Date: Mon, Jan 17, 2000 at 06:36:48 (GMT)
From: Doesn't anyone want to
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: bid on the guru pic at ebay?
Message:
Isn't it worth anything? Premie lurkers...c'mon...ya know ya gotta have it.
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Date: Mon, Jan 17, 2000 at 18:14:24 (GMT)
From: Para Funalia
Email: None
To: Doesn't anyone want to
Subject: Minna piccha issa bedder!
Message:
I gotta goodier one that that ol ebay black n-a wite-a! HAHAHAHAH!

It's M in alla HISA KRISHNA glory! We gotta halfa naked godlike-a being alla draped inna flowers! We gotta sucha cute-a little-a mustachioe! We even gotta - as an extra bonus - a picture of the divine-a dadda inna background.

So - how mucha you give for this handsome vintage picture, eh? It's aready framed! So how mucha mony you gotta? I sella it to you no problema!

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Date: Mon, Jan 17, 2000 at 10:25:40 (GMT)
From: Anon
Email: None
To: RogerDrek
Subject: London premie life
Message:
In that picture there are some premies wearing those (usually ill-fitting) suits and the ubiquitous moustaches. I still shudder to recall that sea of moustaches. As a young lad fresh from school in the country, it was somewhat of a culture shock to find oneself in drab South London, surrounded by these strangely uniformed people. The suits and the moustaches served, I suppose, to disguise the gaunt, macrobiotic, and spaced-out look that their wearers often had underneath. From the eyes, the staring, blissed-out, watery eyes, however, there was no escape.

The uniform was surely no reflection of current fashions. It proclaimed more that the wearer was a part of an unearthly society, as did the strangely antiquated moustaches. I could never bring myself to sport one, so deeply traumatised was I by the 'massed effect'. I do confess though, that I succumbed eventually to the wearing of suits in the ashram, and worse, those flamboyant ties. I am afraid to say that we probably took our fashion cues from Maharaji himself at that time. Embarrassing it is to contemplate, but nevertheless I distinctly remember those glossy photos of Maharaji wearing broad, emblematic ties (always a different one) and of course endless suits and watches of inestimable cost.

Of course we mustn't forget the sexless parachutes that all the 'sisters' wore. At least women like Claudia brought a touch of glamour to the premie world.

The Rolls-Royce (I think), the sunroof of which Maharaji is poking out of in the photo, was hired I believe, for the occasion. It was probably Mike Finch driving. Maharaji of course wasted no time in aquiring his own fleet of posh cars. Premie transport was almost always much more humble, although there was one South American coffee heiress premie who used to turn up in a chauffered Roller(she actually gave me a lift from the airport in it once) . I recall the many old heaps in which we would splutter around England and Europe to attend festivals. In the UK, the famous Ford Transit van did it's share of service (in the divine sense of the word) as did the Morris Traveller.

I think it would be amusing if Roger Drek were to create an illustrated web page in memory of premie fashions - any ideas? Does anyone remember those cartoons that a guy from London called Malcolm somebody or other did for the Divine Times? He captured rather well the premie look in his drawings, I thought.

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Date: Tues, Jan 18, 2000 at 04:50:58 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: drek@oz.net
To: Anon
Subject: ***Best*** WPC f-f-fashion!
Message:
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Date: Mon, Jan 17, 2000 at 15:37:00 (GMT)
From: Christopher
Email: None
To: Anon
Subject: London premie life
Message:
'Does anyone remember those cartoons that a guy from London called Malcolm somebody or other did for the Divine Times?'

Yeah, I remember. Malcolm Livingstone. Wonder where he is these days?

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Date: Mon, Jan 17, 2000 at 07:45:54 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: drek@oz.net
To: Doesn't anyone want to
Subject: Here's the link
Message:
Pic of Maharaji

Too bad about Jim or I'm sure he'd bid on this. I have, as a posthumous proxy to Jim, put in a bid on this picture of Maharaji standing in a car waving and smiling to people through the sunroof. Look very closely at this picture you might be able to see that Maharaji is packing a small derringer in his pants pocket or maybe he's just happy to see everybody on their knees.

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Date: Mon, Jan 17, 2000 at 16:49:57 (GMT)
From: If you win Drek you can
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: have a field day morphing it!
Message:
I suggest giving the Mirage something to really smile about as he peeks out the sunroof. It's lucky for him he is of that jockey like stature as that way he doesn't lose his balance as he pokes his little head out the roof.
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Date: Tues, Jan 18, 2000 at 04:59:06 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: drek@oz.net
To: If you win Drek you can
Subject: I'm being outbid by CD
Message:
Looks like I'm in a pissing match with Brother CD who has a library of over 1000 computer books and manuals. He's met my $7.00 and upped it by $.50. There's no way of me winning against a guy like CD who has deep deep pockets from his kickbacks from Amazon.com.

So, I've got to fold. But, hell, I've got a copy of the posted bitmap image for free.

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Date: Mon, Jan 17, 2000 at 17:05:16 (GMT)
From: Morph it to show his half
Email: None
To: If you win Drek you can
Subject: God half rodent true nature?
Message:
you know, with that squirrels dancing thing (that of so sadly endowed lower half ) below the sunroof and the hamster face above....grinning away?
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Date: Mon, Jan 17, 2000 at 05:32:15 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek™
Email: drek@oz.net
To: Everyone
Subject: Satellite of Pre-Record Love
Message:
It's a done deal. Maharaji has done his first satellite broadcast of 2000. And it would appear that Maharaji is moving into Phase III or is it IV. Doesn't matter because we're one step ahead of him with Forum V.

Check out Enjoying Life for the official story. There you will see their main page graced with a picture of satellite dishes offered as proof that Maharaji is savvy and plugged directly into high technology. Well, as it is the picture of the satellite dishes looks like a stock photo of the farm of scientific mobile array of dishes in New Mexico. (Arizona Mike help me out on this.) I'm surprised the image wasn't of the Arecibo Observatory - bigger is always better. Yeah, Maharaji and his minions on ELK don't have any problems using artistic license to further the holy cause.

Excerpts from Enjoining Life:

The 40 minute pre-recorded telecast was watched in private homes, community meeting halls and hotel meeting rooms.

Pre-recorded! I foretold of this use of canned videos, didn't I? You bet! Maharaji will live forever beaming his pre-recorded videos from his yacht trolling somewhere in the uncharted regions of the South Pacific in search of nubile virgin island maidens (aka Fresh Meat.) Taxes and charity commission problems? Subpoenas? Serving papers or an arrest warrant? Non-existent in International waters.

When the final credits rolled, it was clear that he was behind every aspect of the broadcast: production, music composition, artwork and editing. The result felt sweet and pure. And the beginning of a new era of inspiration.

Credits? Maharaji gave others credit or was it Maharaji this, Maharaji that, Maharaji key grip, etc. Always was and always will be a total control freak. You bet Maharaji is the key grip - tight on the short and curlies.

And this:

A final quote, picking up another of his threads, filled the screen: 'Every day inch a little closer to yourself.'

Yeah, and every second another dollar deposited in a numbered Swiss bank account for Maharaji.

And:

A beautiful and real sentiment that echoes in the hearts of all those who practice Knowledge. And a testimony to the level of care and encouragement he gives to all those who listen to him.

Beautiful? Ok, maybe if you're into that sort of thing. Real? Yeah, as real as any pre-recorded, scripted, and highly edited infomercial can be. It's not like we haven't seen this coming. Phase One was revealed at public programs where the music to songs was canned and the singing was live for the competent singers. A little more down the slippery slope and even the singing was canned and the performers were lip synching. Maharaji testing the waters a step at a time.

And best thing yet is the maximum return on investment. No reliance on premies or communities to get it together to produce a real event. The price is about the same as real events. The one assumption that Maharaji's business plan makes is that premies will be honest and actually pay the additional per person charges. Come on premies tell us if that's what you really did! Or was it like going to a drive-in movie with one paying couple and a non-paying couple in the car trunk?

Finally:

For many it was the first time they had beamed a telecast in to their homes. Any initial set-up problems dissolved as distant memories. The promised future broadcasts will no doubt help in the process of inching closer to ourselves.

problems dissolved as distant memories - wish I could say the same about my association with Maharaji.

promised future broadcasts - Maharaji, as usual, is full of promises.

inching closer - yes, many predators slowly and quietly inch closer.

And from 'me' posting at Anything Goes:

Nop. Just the same exact thing. All the times he was shown speaking, he was reclining on a black piano while talking, dressed in black (how appropiated)and in the background was a metal figure, standing on something, of Don Quijote, the character from Miguel de Cervantes' book. I am though kind of shocked, so when I put it together I'll share more with you. Even a premie who was there also said: I expected something else, but it was nice to see him. I say to myslf, wanting to say more but didn't:Ohwell...

I take it that this post was about the satellite broadcast... Maharaji reclining on a black piano dressed in most hip and mysterious black? And stage props of Don Quixote? Give me a break! Who the fuck is in charge down there? Oh, nevermind, that's already been answered. Pathetic, completely pathetic.

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Date: Mon, Jan 17, 2000 at 06:22:39 (GMT)
From: me
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek™
Subject: Satellite of Pre-Record Love
Message:
You said it well, and cannot share nothing better than that... Have you called yourself lately? ROFL
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Date: Mon, Jan 17, 2000 at 06:58:06 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek™
Email: drek@oz.net
To: me
Subject: Called myself what?
Message:
Yeah, I try calling myself everyday, but all I ever get is a recorded message that says:

If you'd like to make a call please hang up and try again.
If you need help hang up and then dial your operator.

I mean, what the fuck should I do now?

I know that I need to get in touch with myself even if just inch by inch. I paid the big bucks for Maharaji's Sunday potluck and pre-recorded satellite of STD love feed hoping that maybe something would happen, but nothing did. Well, that's not really true. I watched it, sitting stark naked in the dark in my twelve piece pit sofa, sitting next to Valerie Nuvinyl, an aspirant friend of mine, and I had me this big woody, you see, and Valerie whispered a sweet nothing in my ear and the next thing, you know, she... Well, let's just say that everything came out as it sometimes does.

So, yeah, it was worth the damn thirty bucks and I made a tape of it so I can recapture that moment again and again. And that new song that Maharaji wrote was so, so beautiful that I nearly cried. I mean, you know, it moved me, it really touched me deep inside, you know? There is absolutely nothing as beautiful as when one comes on hands and knees to the Lord of the Universe.

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Date: Mon, Jan 17, 2000 at 15:50:30 (GMT)
From: me
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek™
Subject: Called myself what?
Message:
You are so funny! I envy your humor. I envy too that you have it on tape. NOT. Inch by inch: How stupid!
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Date: Tues, Jan 18, 2000 at 05:13:14 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek™
Email: drek@oz.net
To: me
Subject: Called myself anything but tha
Message:
Called myself anthing but that. (I know that my Enhancement Requests, 'ERs' are not welcome, but the subject field would be much more useful if it was a bit longer, say 40 or 50 chars.)

Thanks, 'me', but this is not funny. Believe me, this ain't no joke. Just ask the 24/7 Swat Team stationed on the roof of my apartment building. They know that this is not humor. They know that this is a disease, madness. In fact, the Swat Team is only waiting for enough Probable Cause (PC) to have the sniper fire one high-powered 'Safety' round into my empty melon as I leave the house to take out the garbage. No, ma, I'm not taking out the garbage no more! My food is delivered by Groceries.com. I never leave the fucking house.

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Date: Mon, Jan 17, 2000 at 07:52:53 (GMT)
From: CBI
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek™
Subject: Pre-recorded telecast
Message:
Dear Roger,

I am not sure what you mean when you say pre-recorded telecast.

I asked my partner when he got home 'how was the live-feed'. He said 'great' but it was an hour late.

He seems to think that there was an awful lot of ball-busting going on getting the feed to the premies. Through rain, hail, sleet and snow etc. That man will stop at nothing to minister to his premies.

Do you mean that while the premies were watching this telecast, Mahraji could have been holed up in a toilet somewhere in Istanbul. Do you mean that if M. had telecast an old episode of Gilligan's island you would call that a Pre-recorded telecast.

Please answer me quickly as I have put a seizure on hold till I know for sure whether I am entitled to have one.

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Date: Mon, Jan 17, 2000 at 08:16:53 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: drek@oz.net
To: CBI
Subject: Pre-recorded telecast
Message:
Seizure away, CBI! Have two or three. Hell, even grand mal! Or better still a Linda Blair-Regan head spinning pea-soup puking seizure.

Again, we see how premies perpetuate the myth and how wise Maharaji is in cutting any and all involvement of premies out his big picture show. Premies are good for one thing only and as we have seen the results speak for themselves - not a whole hell of a lot (apologies to all my premies friends, well, uh, er, one like Tommy in Paw Valley, Oklahoma.) And that one thing a premie can almost do, other to give money to Maharaji, is to guard the holy cheese.

Check it out, CBI. Read it and weep. No better, no worse than Gilligan's Island or a replay of the 1967 Indy 500 or the upcoming Mike Tyson fight in the UK.

Right there in black and white and in english or how many languages Enjoying Life comes in. Gotta swallow a couple of Maharaji's lemon-poopy cookies which might cause you to fail a drug test tomorrow, but it's there, Big Front Page Story - Satellite Suckersex:

'The 40 minute pre-recorded telecast was watched in private homes, community meeting halls and hotel meeting rooms.'

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Date: Mon, Jan 17, 2000 at 08:30:15 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: drek@oz.net
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: And where was Maharaji?
Message:
My connections in Malibu have told me that Maharaji was watching the very same satellite pre-recorded modern day W.O.B* Liberace sitting at the piano video feed surrounded by his closest associates, admirers, and servants in the comfort of a very nice and a very upscale bordello in distant suburbs of Tijuana complete with it's own airstrip. Or was it the one in Nevada near the California border on Highway 6 between Benton and Mount Montgomery? Either one always works for me.

*Wearer of Black

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Date: Mon, Jan 17, 2000 at 15:59:10 (GMT)
From: Shifting
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: And where was Maharaji?
Message:
He was at the beach, trying to find his footsteps.
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Date: Mon, Jan 17, 2000 at 04:47:44 (GMT)
From: me
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: THE NOT SO UNIQUE EVENT
Message:
The same exact thing. Over and over: It's inside; is all about you; a very, very toned down maha, measuring every word, talking slow. I want to put what I remember together and share it later. It was not an unique event, but maybe it was! An unique way to charge $30 us dollars to hear the same. Is like buying the same book over and over, I guess... Only the cover changes. hahahaha. Sorry. My alter ego came out. He/she is a joker. I have to respect the victims who are still suffering, and many are my friends. Sad.
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Date: Mon, Jan 17, 2000 at 09:00:50 (GMT)
From: carol
Email: None
To: me
Subject: THE NOT SO UNIQUE EVENT
Message:
I went to someone's house to see this. I was not charged anything or asked to donate.

Wow! I perceived him to be looking right at me and speaking right to me (even though I was sitting way over at the right side of the room! There was not a word he said that couldn't have come straight from my own heart. We really are all one, when we recognize who we are! It doesn't matter that I had stopped practicing Knowledge the way I thought I had to. It doesn't matter that I renounced him publicly. I had nothing to worry about.

I loved so many things he said. I love the direction what he is doing is moving....back to it being between you and you!No need, unless you want to have community people to varify or justify or judge you ; or for you to pass judgment on! There is no room left in me for of of that kind of thing from or about any other person.

Everything is going to be alright! Everything already is alright. You really are free when you understand it is all you! You just have to keep the connection to your own most sincere self open and do what brings you real joy. I have been helped the most to grow more aware of who I am, by doing volunteer hospice work, helping my parents, visiting Miles, and now, communicating with my friends and other strangers about what I am learning and offering support and understanding and encouragment, or just doing my own thing and not saying anything! It was helpful to me when I threw out of my mind all of the old hurts and confusion and only took with me what is helpful to remember about my past so I can have a wonderful future and present!!

I was in confusion for years about Who he was, and it seemed important to me. I did not agree with some of the things Maharaji and premies told me. I didn't practice the techniques as often, or the way I had been instructed. I had some guilt about it. Then I began to say to myself, I'm going to do what works for me. That's when I started communicating with people with my (somewhat) shared history and concepts at this ex-premie site. I never totally stopped loving Maharaji; but I stopped being obedient to what I thought were his directions and I had to basically get rid of all my previous notions about what being a premie or devotee meant and what knowledge was! That is why I defined myself as an ex! I no longer believed many of the old concepts I had formed and taken in and reformed. I hadn't gone to see him since that program and Knowledge review with him when I was in San Diego back in '93 o '94, whenever that was!

I loved it when Maharaji said today,via Sattelite, something like, (paraphrasing from my memory):

Some people think you have shovel darkness into a bucket so you can throw it out! All you have to do to get rid of darkness is to bring it into the light!

And another part...to paraphrase:

Also, people have asked me about what I meant when I said 'Leave no room for doubt in your mind' It simply means, have clarity.

Having clarity is turning on the light onto all your thoughts and reevaluating all you have held sacred or true.

During my darkness-shoveling period (which was necessary for me to do, since I was not bringing it into the light where
Maharaji resided; I had the benefit of some very wonderful messages and a supportive center at the Living Enrichment
Center in Wilsonville. (I'd love to send you last Sunday's tape that's about 30 minutes long if you'd listen to it, so you can
know what their principles and practices are and why they have helped me change my life. I even had to abandon going to that place for about the last eight months while became even more independent. But I have continued to embrace the principle of Life Centered Spirituality, and through changing my thinking and doing the service that my heart led me too, I have come around to recognize that Maharaji is also right back in the center of my heart, and I know I never left his! *I know this to be true for me.* I'm really sorry if this testimonial causes you to be upset. I know how strongly so many of you feel! You can be upset with me or with anyone you want, because it's your life. Just work on it until you're finished with it and then move ahead in which ever direction you want to.

You are right to throw everything about M in the bucket of darkness if that is what it takes to get you back on a road to see whatever it is you really want, and to head toward it no matter what obstacles you face and no matter if you ever trust a teacher again! You don't have to have 'a teacher' at all. Your own life is the teacher. The people you encounter, all the time, are your teachers, and you are a teacher to everyone who looks at you and how you are living and expressing your life and your journey! The reason that I say we all are teachers is because every thing we do and say that is known to any other human being teaches that other one something. Maybe good, maybe bad. Others are judging you all the time. It does seem to human nature,doesn't it?

If you have done or said something that you intend to be a lesson o example to others, you will be happy with yourself. But if you do or say something that you don't really have control over, or you are just reacting with whatever emotion or habit you have at the time, you may not be so happy at some later time! it doesn't mean you should beat yourelf up...just try to more aware of what you do next time. To start, just be a witness and track all the negative self-talk or blaming and critical thoughts you have in one day. Then if you don't like the feelings that your thoughts give you, you can try to catch and redirect the thought toward anything that is good or that you feel would be a more positive reaction or conclusion.

We all judge and judge and judge all the others around us and we most harshly judge ourselves! We may often repeat to ourselves mantras of:
'I guess I'm not good enough'
'This always happens to me'
'You can't trust anyone'
'Everone is just out to get something for themselves!'
'It's _______'s fault I am where I am today!'
'Nothing matters.'
'I can't do anything about it anyway!'
'How dare ____think he/she can do that! He/she's so full of himself!'

and one I used to do frequently:
'I better not want something too much or I won't get it!'

Wrong. Love yourself, don't devalue your self by denying that you are the holder of the reins of your life. You can only love another when you love your self! You only guide another when you can see the self in you is equal to the self in me or them, and you love both!

Some of us have in various ways discovered that what is looking out of your eyes is looking back at you! Many faces and bodies, but one power and one energy residing as our Self inside every heart! That doesn't have a name or label or color, creed, or religion. It is simply who we are! For some of us that flash of recognition fades unto distant memory or is instantly denied!

I am so happy that the two, or three or more paths I have been walking have merged into one (finally!) in my consciousness! There is nothing to be afraid of and nothing to ever feel guilty about! I am grateful for every thing I've experienced in my life! I have processed abuse and come out more compassionate for it. I have forgiven all who I once thought hurt me, and am free to be me! I am becoming 'real': real like the bunny in The Velveteen Rabbit story book!

You know the song: 'Turn, turn, turn' ( To everything..... turn,turn,turn, there is a season.....turn,turn,turn, and a time to
every purpose under heaven.......ecetera and on?
For me the time has become the time when I am fulfilling my 'purpose under heaven'. I really just have to follow my heart
and use my gifts, and love other people and myself and my teachers, and friends; including Maharaji!

I am going to stop using any labels to describe myself or my beliefs! Since this site says it is for Anything and everything about Maharji and the Knowledge, It is OK for me to write things here that are not accepted as majority opinion. I am happy the Forum is here to allow people to work through their anger and hurt. But you have to know that sometimes the result of that opportunity for getting down to the nitty gritty is going to help people realize that they are done processing it all and are ready to be independent and follow their own inner guidance. Please don't close your hearts because you have been hurt. To me, nothing is like it used to be. I wish you well. I encourage you to sincerely be sincere and check the climate in your heart. If it is cold, find yourself whatever it is that will warm it up.

Thankyou for being instrumental in the progress of my journey.

Love
Carol

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Date: Tues, Jan 18, 2000 at 00:54:26 (GMT)
From: Me
Email: None
To: carol
Subject: THE NOT SO UNIQUE EVENT
Message:
I read with patience the message you posted. I wasn't going to respond because I have read some of your posts before, and I krankly know where you are, simply because I was at there before. I wanted to justify all I knew about Maharaji and HIS organization, Elan Vital, because I was in denial. I wanted to believe he was honest, otherwise my belief systems were in jeopardy. Don't come here to defend what you do not know. Scram. You say you love everybody, including Maharaji. Good. If like it that is...I don't hate him, but I do not love him for what he has done over the years. I dislike him. I feel sorry for the deluded minds of this world such as his.

It's all fake! He sounds good to you but is he really good? No. Not according to the people who got hurt by SERVING him. Open up to the possibility that you are wrong. Then and only then you are going to come here and read to understand, not to post something to tell us WE exes are wrong. Yes, you look like a good person but how can you endorse him as a good teacher if you do not know all what is behind the courtains? Can you cope with the consequences if somebody you know gets envolved and gets hurt psychollogically, like many did? People have died because they believed in his message, you understand? People I know who received knowledge in the 70's and who still practice are all sick people, very weird and disfuctional. How did they get that way? Maharaji's double messages got people confused. Ironically, the ones that give of themselves the most to him lost the most. I'm sorry. If you post such a long messages and expect us to read it, than, it would be fair also that you read all you can in these forums, without filtering, to understand why today we chose to live without 'his Grace'. I rather be a realistic person from now on. This man made me kiss his feet, get it? He still doing it. I don't care how you can justify what he does, to me, when I see how different my life could have been without him, I cannot help it: He needs to stop what he is doing. He deceives those who buy his story. So? To you: Enjoy what you believe, but don't come here to tell us how good he's. He's a fake!

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Date: Tues, Jan 18, 2000 at 00:20:17 (GMT)
From: Unique in some ways
Email: None
To: carol
Subject: but not where it counts
Message:
As I listened on Saturday, it was clear to me that Maharaji's words only have meaning for those people who want to learn from him. And really folks, you have to face up to this one fact: that the topic he teaches is nothing at all like what we first thought it was.

When he reminded us that we are on the receiving end of our life every breath that we breathe, it was a powerful and humbling thing. And in that moment I felt a profound and joyful peace with the universe once again. In that moment I felt a reverence for my life and for the giver of the breath, and there was a prayer in my heart to always know this wholeness.

As for him, I just felt thankful that he took the time to remind me of this simple yet powerful truth, and that I could hear his words once again through the ears of a student.

So you people who have nothing to learn from him, and listen to him for no other reason than to find fault, you are right in your perception of his words being empty…….for you they were. But then again, they really weren't meant for you.

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Date: Tues, Jan 18, 2000 at 05:04:49 (GMT)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Unique in some ways
Subject: you're right--we're closed to
Message:
I think you are right in a way. Those of us who abhor M now, would not be able to see the occasional *good* or *true* thing he might say at an event. We are closed to him. We judge him harshly. But that's okay with me. I can live with that. I would rather not look at someone for guidance who has the blood of other people on his hands.

This judgment of him doesn't mean we don't experience love, joy, and openness in our lives. Why get so defensive about the people of this site not being open to M? What's the point? If you're happy with him, fine, why waste one second tryign to convince anyone else?

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Date: Tues, Jan 18, 2000 at 21:47:19 (GMT)
From: Blood of other people?
Email: None
To: Helen
Subject: Don't be so melodramatic Helen
Message:
And try to keep a perspective, please! It's just these kinds of inflammatory statements that serve to misinform and take credibility away from the efforts of sincere people who are here to make sense of the whole thing.
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Date: Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 02:26:19 (GMT)
From: Genital Consensualsex
Email: fourstars@generalconcensus.com
To: Not so fast, Dep...
Subject: There was real blood spilled.
Message:
What about all the Maharaji provoked suicides? And the nutter who killed those women in the south US on 'inner agya?'
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Date: Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 17:45:23 (GMT)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Genital Consensualsex
Subject: There was real blood spilled.
Message:
Yeah, I agree, I don't think I was being melodramatic at all. Carol sang M's praises out of some exalted experience she had at an event, but I believe she is not looking at the facts in a practical way. How is it 'loving' that:
** M had premies make him a jet and did not enforce strict safety measures? SOme of these folks have liver disease which is a HORRIBLE way to go. You can't tell me that M didn't know about this. He is an intelligent man who came on site to see how things were progressing and there was evidence all around of unsafe use of toxic chemicals. Tell me how 'loving' that is? These people cannot go into their closet and get a new body.
** Yeah, what about the suicides? What about the accounts of people in despair who wrote to M looking for some kind of reassurance, and he didn't answer, or wouldn't speak to them at an event, and they killed themselves. How is that loving?

I think that it is easy to put an 'experience' before the objective facts of reality. SOmehow the 'experience' has taken precedent over critical thinking. This is the wrong choice IMO. Maharaji doesn't reside in he light, IMO. You have to judge a person not by the color of their so-called aura but the content of their character. (SOrry Martin Luther King for the paraphrase). Seriously, I really think this is what has conned those of you who still follow M. You think somehow that the ends justifies the means and this is really dangerous thinking, IMO. This is cult thinking. If you think I am inflammatory or melodramtic so be it, I can live with that. Just remember there are plenty of people who meditate who may have a very bright 'aura' around them who are still crappy people.

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Date: Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 02:36:26 (GMT)
From: Bull-
Email: None
To: Helen
Subject: shit Helen! (nt)
Message:
NT
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Date: Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 04:45:39 (GMT)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Bull-
Subject: shit Helen! (nt)
Message:
Can't you offer up anything besides 'bull shit, Helen'? Go ahead, argue the points I just made. Put a little effort into it. Support it, back it up a little. But don't just tell me about your 'experience'. Tell me something concrete to refute what I said in the post above.
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Date: Thurs, Jan 20, 2000 at 06:41:47 (GMT)
From: Why
Email: None
To: Helen
Subject: bother arguing Helen
Message:
No really, you aren't going to budge and neither am I. Why bother wasting our precious breath, unless of course it's not worth much to you to begin with.
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Date: Tues, Jan 18, 2000 at 05:52:50 (GMT)
From: bill
Email: None
To: Helen
Subject: you're right--we're closed to
Message:
Hi Helen,
I agree with you although I think the defense of m is
a person's way of calling for help in understanding what is
so wrong.

I personally regret the time and opportunity lost
for me to have drunk in the joy of the times that were
there for me and were lost because prem rawat was playing the
intense domineering lord god almighty and we were not free
to explore loving those around us.

I say it is only fair and right that he blew his own family apart

I dont really worry about the person that clings to the
whole awful domination.
It is damn hard to face the facts about it and to see the waste
he caused. In thier lives.

As long as the ex premie org is there to support those that are
looking for the help, I am satisfied.

If some find solace in this or that, well, ok by me.
Although sometimes it really throws me to read thier
sentences.
I didnt escape in a day. It took me quite a bit of time.

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Date: Tues, Jan 18, 2000 at 07:58:05 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: None
To: bill
Subject: you're wrong -we're not closed
Message:
I'm really not sure how closed we are.

Ok, I'll just speak for myself. Maybe it's because I'm a recent-ex-premie(hey, let me in that Recent-Ex Forum. Nah, I don't want to be a member of a club that would admit me.) About a month or two ago I was listening to a Maharaji audio tape to snag a sample. And to be honest I felt myself getting into it with a Pavlovian response.

On face value it's difficult if not impossible to argue with Maharaji's basic simple message that life is a beautiful gift and blah, blah, blah. Who doesn't want to hear and believe that? It sucks you right in. And there is a trance-like group effect that helps the entire gestalt work. And it still works even when you are alone sitting in your own private Idaho bean bag chair basking under the giga hertz (or is that mega hertz) glow of one of the many Iridium suns. But, I believe that prior to being able to kick off that second water-ski and going slalom you need to have acquired enough training time with the masses (shudder) first.

Yup, these forums and hate sites are the antidote or the poison pill depending on your perspective. Like I said, there's nothing wrong with Maharaji's message at a very superficial face value. Tastes great, less filling. But, if one reads these pages and others that are critical of Maharaji one gets exposed to information that is not so flattering and reverent towards Maharaji. With this new

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Date: Tues, Jan 18, 2000 at 07:47:05 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek™
Email: None
To: bill
Subject: you're wrong we're not closed
Message:
I'm not sure how closed we are.

Ok, I'll just speak for myself. Maybe it's because I'm a recent-ex-premie (hey, let me in that Recent-Ex Forum. Nah, I don't want to be a member of a club that would admit me.) About a month or two ago I was listening to a Maharaji audio tape to snag a sample. And to be honest I felt myself getting into it with a Pavlovian response.

On face value it's difficult if not impossible to argue with Maharaji's basic simple message that life is a beautiful gift and blah, blah, blah. Who doesn't want to hear and believe that? It sucks you right in. And there is a trance-like group effect that helps the entire gestalt work. And it still works even when you are alone sitting in your own private Idaho bean bag chair basking under the giga hertz (or is that mega hertz) glow of one of the many Iridium suns. But, I believe that prior to being able to kick off that second water-ski and going slalom you need to have acquired enough training time with the masses (shudder) first.

Yup, these forums and hate sites are the antidote or the poison pill depending on your perspective. Like I said, there's nothing wrong with Maharaji's message at a very superficial face value. Tastes great, less filling. But, if one reads these pages and others that are critical of aMaharaji one gets exposed to information that is not so flattering and reverent towards Maharaji. With this new

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Jan 18, 2000 at 07:35:25 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek™
Email: drek@oz.net
To: bill
Subject: But the door is always open
Message:
I'm not sure how closed we are.

Ok, I'll just speak for myself. Maybe it's because I'm a recent-ex-premie (hey, let me in that Recent-Ex Forum. Nah, I don't want to be a member of a club that would admit me.) About a month or two ago I was listening to a Maharaji audio tape to snag a sample. And to be honest I felt myself getting into it with a Pavlovian response.

On face value it's difficult if not impossible to argue with Maharaji's basic simple message that life is a beautiful gift and blah, blah, blah. Who doesn't want to hear and believe that? It sucks you right in. And there is a trance-like group effect that helps the entire gestalt work. And it still works even when you are alone sitting in your own private Idaho bean bag chair basking under the giga hertz (or is that mega hertz) glow of one of the many Iridium suns. But, I believe that prior to being able to kick off that second water-ski and going slalom you need to have acquired enough training time with the masses (shudder) first.

Yup, these forums and hate sites are the antidote or the poison pill depending on your perspective. Like I said, there's nothing wrong with Maharaji's message at a very superficial face value. Tastes great, less filling. But, if one reads these pages and others that are critical of aMaharaji one gets exposed to information that is not so flattering and reverent towards Maharaji. With this new

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Jan 18, 2000 at 07:40:22 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek™
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek™
Subject: I'm a backdoor man - try again
Message:
I'm not sure how closed we are. Ok, I'll just speak for myself. Maybe it's because I'm a recent-ex-premie (hey, let me in that Recent-Ex Forum. Nah, I don't want to be a member of a club that would admit me.) About a month or two ago I was listening to a Maharaji audio tape to snag a sample. And to be honest I felt myself getting into it with a Pavlovian response.

On face value it's difficult if not impossible to argue with Maharaji's basic simple message that life is a beautiful gift and blah, blah, blah. Who doesn't want to hear and believe that? It sucks you right in. And there is a trance-like group effect that helps the entire gestalt work. And it still works even when you are alone sitting in your own private Idaho bean bag chair basking under the giga hertz (or is that mega hertz) glow of one of the many Iridium suns. But, I believe that prior to being able to kick off that second water-ski and going slalom you need to have acquired enough training time with the masses (shudder) first.

Yup, these forums and hate sites are the antidote or the poison pill depending on your perspective. Like I said, there's nothing wrong with Maharaji's message at a very superficial face value. Tastes great, less filling. But, if one reads these pages and others that are critical of aMaharaji one gets exposed to information that is not so flattering and reverent towards Maharaji. With this new

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Jan 18, 2000 at 01:01:42 (GMT)
From: Oh my, one of the chosen
Email: None
To: Unique in some ways
Subject: but not where it counts
Message:
Do not criticize what you cannot understand. Stick around though. Nothing will happen if he's so real. I dare you to stick around and educate yourself in many subjects, especially in the dangers of having fallen for a fake empty hamster, oh sorry, I ment to say master.
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Date: Tues, Jan 18, 2000 at 02:37:34 (GMT)
From: Tell me my friend, do you
Email: None
To: Oh my, one of the chosen
Subject: know where it really counts?
Message:
I'll tell you where it really counts. Is your heart full? If it's not, then your words are as empty as any ever spoken, and they only add to the deafening confusion rampant in the world today. And if your words breed malice towards others, then you are worse than even that.
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Date: Tues, Jan 18, 2000 at 05:06:15 (GMT)
From: chosen one
Email: None
To: Tell me my friend, do you
Subject: know where it really counts?
Message:
Look. This site is for people who have left the cult. To me is a cult. I feel a security today, peace and understanding that I did not have while practicing Knowledge. I am not confused at all today. He wants people confused so they come back for more? Confussion? Maharaji criticized many times religions because they talk too much about darkness, but, what is the confussion that so many times, too many, he refers to? Darkness, trumbling, struggling, you want more? If he wants to be confused and fight the battles of all battles with himself, trying to know who he is, he should do it in the privacy of his own home, well, our home-we paid for it- and avoid bringing others to follow his trip. He sold the concept to us that because we forget we need to be reminded, of what!? If I want to see beautiful sites I don't need his videos, and today, nobody has to come to remind me to feel good. I feel good because I can, just as I felt when he appeared in my path. I was just fine then. So? Is my heart full? All is relative to our meausuring tape, to our own concepts, and Maharaji killed few in us and brought a bunch too. The people who come to these forums and favor Maharaji have the right to do so. If you need a guru to remind you that life is a gift that is okay. What is not okay is what happened to the people who sincerely trusted him, and decided to help him on his doings and got fried. You want one of his great quotes? 'Don't fry when you are frying'. You tell me, what in the heck that is? In the process to serve him I found myself few months a go listening a video that was produced to be only for people who participates in the communities, and there I saw Maharaji like never before, bitching and telling the premies that if they wanted to help they needed to give 150% of their energy. But gosh, imagine, the master speaks. The master wants, the brainwashed devotee do... I did many things that I did not want to do. I was asked not to talk to new people. What's is his fear? The day I watched that video something changed in me, because I noticed more than ever how cocky and pedant he is. Another thing that got me tired and dizzy at times, he is always contradicting himself; many times he said to help even a little if possible, but there he's asking 150% of me. The Lord of the universe, demanding! He wants to remain the most famous guru in the planet to justify his own delussion no matter what. Not with my cooperation anymore. Deceiving people. You have found just another cult my friend. You see? You have bought also his vocabulary with which I don't agree anymore. My heart is full? I have peace today. I can love and live MY life any way I want to. I am a good person and my morals are a bit more higher than his too. I feel comfortable with myself today, without having to feel that something is missing in me. Is nothing wrong with me. In my opinion, God did not make any mistakes and He/She/It is not a joker, playing tricks on people, like maharaji wants people to believe. God is in your heart nut you don't know how to reach him. I don't agree. He loves all human beings equally and I do feel his love, even without a guru. Would have He/She/It discriminated and selected only few to find a guru? I don't think so. You said:' I'll tell you where it really counts. Is your heart full? If it's not, then your words are as empty as any ever spoken, and they only add to the deafening confusion rampant in the world today. And if your words breed malice towards others, then you are worse than even that.' As everybody else I have very good days and bad ones. Just like your master: He said this many times about himself. Malice? What are you refering to? You do not know me. You do not know how I contribute to the world. Even if you cannot notice, I think I am doing one of the best things possible with my time: Participating in this forums I can help others to wake up. Things are not what they seem sometimes. Be carefull. Be wise. Don't be a parrot. Sing your own song. You don't need crutches.
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Date: Tues, Jan 18, 2000 at 23:04:09 (GMT)
From: Doktor Dick
Email: None
To: chosen one
Subject: know where it really counts?
Message:
Man - either you have just smoked the biggest bowl of crack on record or you are SFU (Seriously Fucked Up)
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Date: Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 05:45:07 (GMT)
From: Me
Email: None
To: Doktor Dick
Subject: know where it really counts?
Message:
Do you know that the fact that at this time the sun is acting strange is causing scientists to believe that the hamster is maybe the sun?
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Date: Mon, Jan 17, 2000 at 23:50:05 (GMT)
From: selene
Email: None
To: carol
Subject: THE NOT SO UNIQUE EVENT
Message:
As you know I don't agree with you about M.
He is an excellent, charasmatic speaker. Of course! He learned from the time he was a toddler.
I'm not sure what to say to you. I am wondering why you want to bring the kind of responses you are going to get upon yourself.
But I too relate to wanting the freedome to express myself.
They got mad at me for jsst talking decently to premies!
But I don't think M has anything special to offer. Nothing. He is a scam artist making a shitload of money and I don't see him giving it back in any worthwhile way.
But I am not going to flame you for your opinions. Just can't understand you I guess.
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Date: Mon, Jan 17, 2000 at 21:42:02 (GMT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: carol
Subject: THE NOT SO UNIQUE EVENT
Message:
Dear Carol,
I know we have emailed about this already and maybe I wasn't clear in asking you to at least reply to that post I sent along in the email. I see in that thread that you replied to everyone but me. You said you thought you did reply and maybe it didn't post but I am so curious to hear your thoughts on what I said. I see you as a very caring and compasionate woman. A good person who gives much of herself to others. I can not reconcile the real pain that M's cult has caused so many, as I said and if you are just not able to look at that then fine but I wish you would just tell me that you can't at this time or whatever.
When I got your email I thought I'd just let it go but find, I guess that I can't do it, easily anyway.
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Mon, Jan 17, 2000 at 17:46:24 (GMT)
From: Powerman
Email: None
To: carol
Subject: THE NOT SO UNIQUE EVENT
Message:
What can I say, fellow exes... I told you so.
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Date: Mon, Jan 17, 2000 at 19:15:14 (GMT)
From: carol
Email: None
To: Powerman
Subject: Oh Yeah! What was that?
Message:
May I remind you that you don't know me. You have misinterpreted me several times since we 'met'! I have not contradicted my *self* at all, that is only something I can know. Neither have I been dishonest with anyone here. Although I have teased a little sometimes or stretched the role of the characters I sometimes play.

I have been sincerely exploring all ideas and finding MY OWN WAY!
I am an ex-premie from the standpoint that I am not anything like the premie I once thought I was. What I became an ex of, was my own conclusions and reactions and judgments, a process that rocked my entire foundation!

I am rebuilding my foundation and my house is built on the rock of my love of self, others, and god. Those things are really only one thing anyway! My house is sound and will stand through any storm! The doors to my home can accomodate any size or type of guest that chooses to enter when I invite them in! I don't care what race or religion or sex or sins(missings of the mark: an archery term!) you have. I will not accept any label or box you want to put me in, or yourself in, to justify your own beliefs or your own current dwelling place! I wish you happiness, but sometimes you just have to move to another house if the one you're in gets too small for you! Have a good journey. I mean it. And if you want to visit me in my house (either physically or theoretically) you know how to reach me! Carol

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Date: Mon, Jan 17, 2000 at 20:46:22 (GMT)
From: Powerman
Email: None
To: carol
Subject: Oh Yeah! What was that?
Message:
Carol,
I don't say this to be mean, it's just that I can't help noticing. You seem to be heading for a psychological crash. Probably not much you can do now because the course you're on doesn't allow for the thinking that would be necessary to avert this. I hope I'm wrong.
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Date: Tues, Jan 18, 2000 at 00:51:58 (GMT)
From: By saying this, are you
Email: None
To: Powerman
Subject: hoping she crashes?
Message:
Do you care that statements like this said to people who really are heading for a crash only take them closer to the edge? If you really did care about Carol, you would only encourage her to find her own inner strength and strive for her own clarity, through whatever means works for her. And by the way, she sounds like she's doing quite fine working through her issues to me.

But of course you don't care about Carol. People like you have to prove others are wrong in order justify in their own head their own point of view......even if you have to push a few people over the edge in the process.

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Date: Tues, Jan 18, 2000 at 01:16:34 (GMT)
From: thank you
Email: None
To: By saying this, are you
Subject: hoping she crashes?
Message:
nt
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Date: Mon, Jan 17, 2000 at 08:21:50 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: me
Subject: So UNIQUE indeed!$!$!$!$!
Message:
I guess Rawat NEVER got that much money from premies watching a video !!!

30$ x how many premies? 5,000 ? 10,000 ?

SO UNIQUE! SO many gullible premies ..... how long will this last?

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Date: Tues, Jan 18, 2000 at 02:53:08 (GMT)
From: bb
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: So UNIQUE indeed!$!
Message:
Hi JM, You know, he did other videos occasionally
where there was no actual audience and I remember I couldnt
stand those videos.
They were always painful to hear.
One of them, from about 1990 or so, I saw about 4 or 5 times
because he showed it at events and I saw it at local
programs also.
He also did one in about 79 or so and that one was also
terrible.

If he is doing videos without audiences for this year long
series, that will be a disaster for him.
Good.
What is your thinking or comment about that event?
You can post it in one of the upper threads, but I would
like to hear from you on this one more.

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Date: Sun, Jan 16, 2000 at 03:16:47 (GMT)
From: michael
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Another one cometh!
Message:
And now for your salvation we have Maitreya THE World Teacher.

He has inspiring credentials:

the wisdom of Buddha
the love of Christ
the joy of Krishna
the power of the Messiah
the justice of the Imam Mahdi

No, I am not, repeat not, making this guy up. The above 'credentials' are taken directly from a magazine ad! The official web page appears to be www.theteacher.org I also found http://www.lord-maitreya.org and there are others.

So, if you are tired of feeling so sorry :( for the past Lord of the Universe, you can help him find the true Coming One (Maitreya)so we can all live a life of love, reason and justice. Whee!

Hmmmm....I wonder of Da Free John knows about this. He is also the awaited God Man on Earth. /:>

NO! WAIT! I have just realized the TRUTH. It's none of them! How can any of them be the ONE TRUE KAHUNA? IT'S MEEEEEEEEEEEE....{:-)

Peace - St. Michael the Demented

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Date: Sun, Jan 16, 2000 at 05:37:55 (GMT)
From: Da Trufe
Email: None
To: Da Kine
Subject: Hey! Hey! Over Here!
Message:
Here he is the one the only - the only one - The Really Very Enlightened One Who CAN REALLY SEND YOU!

http://www.beyondananda.com/

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Date: Mon, Jan 17, 2000 at 15:29:04 (GMT)
From: Christopher
Email: None
To: Da Trufe
Subject: Beyondananda - the true guru!
Message:

Question: 'Swami , do you have a vision for the coming millennium?

Beyondananda speaks!:

'I thought you would never ask. As a FUNdamentalist, I see the pro-laugh movement taking hold. Each time we choose laughter over condemnation, we are putting our karma into overdrive - which helps us override any heavy shift that does come down. So next time you cast a look to the heavens and complain, 'Why is this shift happening to me?' remember also to laugh. By laughing together at our foolishness in small matters, we may very well achieve fool-realization and see ourselves on the same large-screen TV that God is watching. As we
bumble around the set looking for something we've forgotten we already have, the announcer is whispering:

'These people have been tricked into thinking there is a key to the Universe. What they don't realize is, it has been left unlocked.' And God - that devilish trickster - is laughing with glee.

My vision for the new millennium is billions of people waking up to find out it's just a joke and we've been on Candid Karma. And in the light of this awesome revelation, what can anyone say but, 'Holy shift! Ho-ho-holy shift.'


[There's more ...]


... if you need proof of the power of prayer, you need only look as far as the baseball world. In Cleveland this past summer, a group of East Indians of the Buddhist persuasion -- the Cleveland Indian Indians they called themselves -- adopted popular outfielder Manny Ramirez, who ended up with more runs batted in than anyone in over sixty years, a feat attributable in part to Buddhist chanting. Each time Ramirez would come up with runners in scoring position, he would hear those devoted fans chanting 'oh Manny bat me home, oh Manny bat me home, oh Manny bat me home' -- and more often than not, he did.'

Copyright 1999 by Steve Bhaerman.
All rights reserved.

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Date: Mon, Jan 17, 2000 at 16:55:43 (GMT)
From: Wanda Rher
Email: None
To: Christopher
Subject: Beyondananda - the true guru!
Message:
That is too waybeyondame! But I dig your me-sage. What knda karma do you drive, big boy?
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Date: Mon, Jan 17, 2000 at 17:09:38 (GMT)
From: Khreesto Furrr
Email: None
To: Wanda Rher
Subject: ... it's driving me (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Mon, Jan 17, 2000 at 17:57:08 (GMT)
From: Wanda Rher
Email: None
To: Khreesto Furrr
Subject: ..Oh, baby..YES! Drive me!(nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Mon, Jan 17, 2000 at 18:10:37 (GMT)
From: Steeph o' Khrerrr
Email: None
To: Wanda Rher
Subject: oh ... Manny bat me home
Message:
Om mané padme hum ... Om mané padme hum ... Oh, man, a pad -me 'ome!

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Date: Sun, Jan 16, 2000 at 04:15:56 (GMT)
From: Da kine
Email: None
To: michael
Subject: Another one cometh!
Message:
hey dud! when i was at the premie house in santa cruz, there was a hawaiian carpenter premie who used to bring GM weed .they would get stoned togeather. His main concern was that if the lord of the universe got too stoned the universe would wreak or something.maybe GM just hasnt been smoking the good stuff ,if someone got him some really good weed maybe he could make an encore as Maitreya.If so who will be the first to sign on ?Just sign on the dotted line!
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Date: Sun, Jan 16, 2000 at 05:55:56 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek™
Email: None
To: Da kine
Subject: Very clever play on words!
Message:
For those not hip to the double entendre in this post.

'Da Kine' is a manufacturer of wind surfing equipment.

'The Kind' is slang for a particular strain of marijuana. I don't know where it originates. Forget it if it's not B.C. The west is the best!

For the record and for the DEA and the Canadian equivalent I am straight edge.

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Date: Sun, Jan 16, 2000 at 05:58:18 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek™
Subject: Oops, can't use HTML char code
Message:
Tried to sneak one in, but it gets mangled on the translation.

Roger eDrek is a trademarked and copyrighted name, 1999-Perpetuity. All use is strictly forbidden under severe penalty.

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Date: Sun, Jan 16, 2000 at 20:40:36 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek™
Email: drek@oz.net
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: Test: let's try a pasted TM
Message:
seems that one can paste in special characters???
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Date: Sun, Jan 16, 2000 at 03:46:03 (GMT)
From: michael
Email: None
To: michael
Subject: You idiot!
Message:
It's channeling! And I was so ready to believe!! Sigh.
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Date: Sun, Jan 16, 2000 at 02:01:33 (GMT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: david@xyzx.freeserve.co.uk
To: Everyone
Subject: Embarassing poll now online
Message:
It's OK, I won't tell anyone what your answer is. Just point your browser to the Polling Booth and answer the question - if you dare.
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Date: Sun, Jan 16, 2000 at 18:55:25 (GMT)
From: the joyous voyer
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: Embarassing poll now online
Message:
Never whacked off in the ashram. But I did walk by an open door, glanced in and saw two premies going at it doggie style. They got pissed when they noticed me watching. But, hey! Why did they leave the door open?
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Date: Mon, Jan 17, 2000 at 03:11:32 (GMT)
From: Deputy Dog
Email: None
To: the joyous voyer
Subject: Now that's being poled! (nt)
Message:

Deputy Dog responded:
Now that's what I call being poled!
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Date: Sun, Jan 16, 2000 at 12:01:44 (GMT)
From: Anon
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: Embarassing poll now online
Message:
Now that's what I call funny! What a great idea!
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Date: Sun, Jan 16, 2000 at 04:40:39 (GMT)
From: Ben Lurking
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: Embarassing poll now online
Message:
thats an inacurate poll, some of us had sex in the meditaion room.
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Date: Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 19:31:36 (GMT)
From: pat
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: in danger to himself...
Message:
The fact that Mahaha's endoctrination has endangered people's lives to the point that some have committed suicide makes me think that this fact can allow the law to commit someone like him to a Psychiatric hospital: He has the power to mislead, harm, and confuse people, deliberatelly, in purpose. This applies to old premies, who were brainwashed in the past to believe his crap of him being the lord. Can you imaging when he gets there and gets an evaluation? I though I was god, but I think i'm not.

Anybody who endangers other's lives belong in a hospital(=sick). Get help mahaha. It's time to come foward and give an explanation too. You haven't done it yet. We are waiting.

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Date: Sun, Jan 16, 2000 at 00:27:34 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: pat
Subject: You couln't be more right
Message:
I recently had a talk with a cult specialist in Israel.

They send to psychiatric hospital all the guurus and messiahs in that country ! Rawat wouldn't be able to preach there for more than 5 minutes. Then most of them are thrown out of the country.

These guys are clear!!!!

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Date: Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 19:58:50 (GMT)
From: Mr D
Email: None
To: pat
Subject: Christ, you must be psychic
Message:
If you see my post below titled, 'But worst of all' then you'll see that we were thinking along the same lines.
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Date: Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 17:32:35 (GMT)
From: Christopher
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Honest opinion
Message:
Here's one that might be fun:

What's the one biggest thing that bugs you about the Maha's trip?

(Mine's that he's profiting from people's gullibility)

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Date: Sun, Jan 16, 2000 at 14:06:17 (GMT)
From: Anon
Email: None
To: Christopher
Subject: Honest opinion
Message:
Here's one that might be fun: What's the one biggest thing that bugs you about the Maha's trip?

My biggest bug is that Maharaji continues to ignore those critics who were once his sincere followers. In my opinion, he must give some response, some explanation, to those who sacrificed much to meet his demands and who have suffered confusion or hardship as a result.
As LA-ex said, he may have to answer some hard questions when the new lot of aspirants get a load of this website.

When I was 16, and was confined in bed with Glandular Fever, I experienced very acutely what is sometimes called 'the dark night of the soul'.
This was what Helen referred to, in a post below, as a confrontation with 'The Terrible Void'.
I was able, by virtue of being bedridden, to consider at length my vulnerable human condition and realised that God, whom I had trusted, believed in and prayed to throughout my childhood, was still a mystery to me. This was a dreadfully painful and lonely realisation. I cried and prayed a lot. I think most us premies, before we had ever heard of Maharaji, had some similar experiences, especially when life dealt us a heavy blow.

I was reminiscing upon this last night (having woken up with flatulence from the previous evenings Indian meal..some irony there too) and it occurred to me that there is the possibilty that Maharaji himself may never himself have had such intense feelings of real yearning for truth, a personal Golgotha, and that he may have just fallen into parroting (without even the intensity of longing of that of his followers) all that tried and tested, and highly effective, Indian talk about real yearning and sincerity, which he was brought up constantly listening to.
Then, believing that he was the Perfect Master and being deified constantly, he was cushioned from the more unpleasant realities of life and so may never have really questioned himself and his God at all. Has he ever have felt miserable and lonely enough to do much personal soul searching? This kind of ties in with the hearsay that he (and other members of his family) never meditated much, or at all.

Meditation for me was always a time of solitude. Kind of a personal confontation with the 'Terrible Void' when I would concentrate my longing and focus on my hearts aspiration. The techniques and the quietening down of the mind, which is the 'practise' part, were lifeless without the intent or sincerity that I would apply to that practise. It was often, I suppose, about the emotional feeling of desperately needing to contact a higher love, and the interpretation of the experiences of light and stillness as being the reward for that intensely sincere longing, begging for a revelation of truth.

Unfortunately, the recommended suppression of doubts eventually resulted in my becoming, like most premies, happy to assume that I was on the right track. After all, it's not much fun spending your life questioning everything you do. I stopped questioning Maharaji's trip along with my self-examination and my standards slipped proportionately from then on. Is this what faith or 'knowledge' should bring... a society of arrogant bliss-ninnies? (to use OP's excellent turn of phrase). Reality check!

So having invested all of that into Maharaji it is all the more sad that he cannot engage the doubts of people who have had misgivings about what became of them when they followed his advice. I am starting to think that closure for these people may really eventually have to involve him in some way.

It's all very fine saying, leave it, walk away if you don't like it; but it is not that easy to emotionally disengage (unless one lives for hundreds of years). The fact that many people who write to this forum, get so uptight and angry says a lot about how hard it is to resume a normal life-after-cult. Anger is an effective means of distancing oneself from one's former love is it not?

Sadly, there is often little tolerance for people who have not publically renounced Maharaji and who still have some feelings for Maharaji. I sympathise with those who cannot bring themselves to damn the man wholesale; I suspect that these premies hope that Maharaji may be moved to some kind of confessional. That would be helpful to many including himself. That others need to totally hate the guy is also understandable. Been there too. There is a lot that has gone on that would seem inexcusable. My experience is that time is a great healer.

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Date: Tues, Jan 18, 2000 at 03:17:24 (GMT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: Anon
Subject: Honest opinion
Message:
Dear Anon,
I faintly remember being moved by a post of yours describing a meditation when you were still living home with your parents. I think you convey your emotions very well in writing and it is enjoyable to read.
I found your thoughts about M not ever having that spiritual longing quite intersting and very plausable. For myself, though, I was not searching but a premie started to work with me and talked about the meditation. I have always see the meditation as an ability that each being has and not as a 'gift' from M and that any experience with it is all my own. Once I heard about the meditation it just made sense to me. I still enjoy the meditation. I am more spiritual now and have been for years then ever before but it is more in connection to nature, my oneness with it, to all living things.
You also talk about love and hate for M but I believe indifference in this situation as in the experience with an ex-lover is the goal. Love and hate are two sides of the same coin but indifference is emotional seperation. The only anger I feel for M today is through empathy in reading the personal accounts of posters that I have read here. For the most part I don't think much about him at all.
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Tues, Jan 18, 2000 at 21:05:22 (GMT)
From: Christopher
Email: None
To: Robyn
Subject: Honest opinion
Message:
Robyn, you say: 'Love and hate are two sides of the same coin but indifference is emotional separation.'

I guess indifference is a place that we go when we agree to go our separate ways.

Then again, it can also be a fence to sit on when we don't want to commit, - pro or con.

I hope to get there - where? - 'I don't think much about him at all' - there, - one of these days (echoes of the Floyd echoing in the background?)

But, - yes there is a but - [and why is there a 'but'? - 'cos I recognise that I don't HAVE to sit on the fence this time] - I gave the guy several years of my life (more fool me), and now the least I can do is TRY not to let him con anyone else into 'giving' their lives to his personality cult.

No doubt all the 'faithful' premies will come squealing: 'but you SHOULD give your life to him'.

How about we keep on encouraging them to ask themselves why. Hm?

(BTW, love and hate might SEEM to be opposites, but hate is a powerful release - if it's released. My own thinking is that on the other side of the 'coin' of Love is fear.)

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Date: Tues, Jan 18, 2000 at 23:19:01 (GMT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: Christopher
Subject: Honest opinion
Message:
Dear Christopher,
I didn't mean to say that hate doesn't have its place I surely think it does but as an end goal to shoot for indifference. Even though I feel pretty indifferent about the guy that doesn't mean I am emotionless when it comes to someone else buying into M or looking at joining up or going back. I have had pretty strong feelings about Carol's turn about even as I realize, bottom line it is her thing. What I mean is that when it is just me in my life, I don't think or care about him but I would point out, as I did to Carol, my feelings to someone who speaks of loving him or worshiping or respecting him.
I didn't make that up about love/hate and indifference, a therapist told me that years ago and I always remembered it. Also maybe confusion or questioning would describe fence sitting better then indifference which is uncaring.
I know I am mostly an off topic person here but I do get fired up sometimes and have pretty strong feelings against M it is just my opinion though and not a burning emotion for me for which I am grateful. Don't you think love expressed is a great realease? I hope so. :) Really though I think all expressed emotions are.
BTW, you seem to be doing lots better emotionally and I think it is great! :)
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Tues, Jan 18, 2000 at 20:08:07 (GMT)
From: Anon
Email: None
To: Robyn
Subject: Honest opinion
Message:
That's an interesting idea..that indifference is the goal. I know what your driving at. It's probably harder for some to abandon their former deeply held beliefs, than for others. The time it takes to gain mental and emotion equilibrium and clarity, may be in proportion to the amount of faith, time and energy that one invested in the belief system. Sorry, I've got to go and sing my kids to sleep. Thanks for the response.
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Date: Tues, Jan 18, 2000 at 23:22:38 (GMT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: Anon
Subject: Honest opinion
Message:
Dear Anon,
I do think you are right in that the depth of emotion we hold on to were M is concered has a strong correlation to the depth of our devotion and I got off easy on both counts but as I mentioned to Chris a therapist told me that thing about love/hate and indifference and their relationship to each other and it made good sense to me then and now.
It is such a nice image to think of you singing your children to sleep. :)
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Mon, Jan 17, 2000 at 14:53:07 (GMT)
From: Christopher
Email: None
To: Anon
Subject: Honest opinion
Message:
I'm sure I won't be the only one to appreciate your post, Anon. You touched on an angle that reminded me - not everything is necessarily black and white.

Unfortunately the 'arrogant bliss-ninny' mentality (what I remember of it) always used to find a convenient excuse for the Maha's every action - OR refusal to take action - by palming it all off as 'Lila'.

Thinking M might find it easier to live with himself if he DID decide to respond to those critics who were once his sincere followers is perhaps wishful-thinking on the part of those who, deep down, still would like to see him once again as a good man, if not the God-man we once thought him to be.

Perhaps - one of these days - he just might consider trying to tell us what went on.

.................................................
.................................................
.................................................

(Later)

Am I kidding myself? What hope - what MOTIVE is there for that to happen?

I wonder if the Maha EVER wonders what other people think of him? If he did, can you imagine what he must think the christian fundamentalists make of his former claims to Godhood? I wonder if, inside, he DOES think of himself as anti-christ? Perhaps even LIKES to (in between the foot-kissing, that is). Too late for redemption, perhaps?

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Date: Sun, Jan 16, 2000 at 00:00:51 (GMT)
From: Powerman
Email: None
To: Christopher
Subject: Honest opinion
Message:
The thing that bothers me most about the guru is that he brought out the worse in us and encouraged us to bring out the worse in each other. He gave us the worse in himself and presented it as the best, knowing that the most vulnerable, naive and gullible people would be the one's who would believe and invest in him. In a word it's deception. He deceived us to exploit us and used the most precious of our ideals to get us to believe him. Worse than selling a counterfeit watch, he sold us a counterfeit god.
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Date: Sun, Jan 16, 2000 at 03:43:18 (GMT)
From: He robbed our innocense
Email: None
To: Powerman
Subject: Honest opinion
Message:
All the bad stories he has ever said are about himself. One, about robbers.
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Date: Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 20:15:25 (GMT)
From: Michael
Email: None
To: Christopher
Subject: Honest opinion
Message:
What bugs me is that he convinced people to give up their lives, their educations, their relationships, and their trust funds, enter his ashrams to live under some nasty physical and psychological conditions, and, once he tired of it, tossed them into the street, further destroying their lives. The stories the ashram residents tell here are the ones which give me the most sorrow.
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Date: Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 19:35:47 (GMT)
From: hamzen
Email: None
To: Christopher
Subject: His Complete & utter lack
Message:
When you scrape away that new age/minimalism of the stage sets, which were occasionally tastefully done, and think about his personal sense of style, especially those awful moustaches & ties, the haircuts, his awful crest-of-arms engraved on those tacky Vision catalogue glasses, the krishna costumes, not quite doing the full monty, those rippling sixpacks.....The list is infinitely negative.

His complete & ucker lack of taste, and the fact that by having some connection to him I was endorsing that.

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Date: Sun, Jan 16, 2000 at 06:04:36 (GMT)
From: la-ex
Email: None
To: christopher
Subject: big beef about our lard
Message:
There are quite a few, to be sure, but the one that jumps out at me at the moment, is the fact that Lard actually encourages premies to do propagation these days. Instructors have told premies in communities to set goals of 10 people per month to be invited to public programs, hoping to get 1 or 2 to receive knowledge. They say that Lard is unhappy with current propagation in the US and thinks that the number of premies could be at least doubled.
The part that really bugs me is this: Most of the premies trying to do this don't know anything about Lard's personal life or behaviour-they have no idea about the mistress, affairs, drugs, alcoholism,money deals etc. So they go out into their communities, tell people that this is something good for them to get into, not knowing that they are essentially sitting on a ticking time bomb, because these new recruits are 2 or 3 mouse clicks away from discovering Lard's dark side, and exposing it. So the poor premie,sometimes a teacher or social worker, is risking their career or reputation at least by promoting Lard, while Lard knows all this and they don't.
I think this tells us something about the man, and what he is willing to do keep his trip going...
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Date: Sun, Jan 16, 2000 at 14:03:30 (GMT)
From: ex triple ex
Email: None
To: la-ex
Subject: big beef about our lard
Message:
EXACTLY!! I know that because I did it! The lard is the worst! Do you know how many people I invited to his crap? We were promoting his lie. We need to warn the public population on main news papers of the dangers of his double face, very well prepared, i am the master you are the student a... story. Premies are told to avoid totally using the word master when talking to new people or new aspirants. How convinient! I feel I was lying to people hidding facts from them, just because Elan Vital told us too? The lard thinks he's god still today. Period. Why darshan in Australia then? am glad that I only have to appologize to one who ended receiving knowledge and thanks god he doesn't practice, and he thinks all a farce. How embarrassing! How extremelly embarrassing. We'll get even, God told me in a dream I had, don't you worry. You got to him because you loved me. The lard is just the lard, not the lord. lard, lard, lard.
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Date: Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 19:12:05 (GMT)
From: Mr D
Email: david@xyzx.freeserve.co.uk
To: Christopher
Subject: Honest opinion
Message:
What Maharaji does now doesn't affect me but when I followed him I was very affected by him. What annoys me the most is that I gave up valuable personal relationships because he commanded that that was what he wanted.

The fact that he messed with the lives of a lot of young impressionable people and totally ruined some of their lives. That, I cannot forget. And he convinced people he was the Lord in order that he could control them and profit from them. That cannot be glossed over. He would do the same again now, if he thought he could get away with it.

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Date: Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 19:55:19 (GMT)
From: Mr D
Email: None
To: Mr D
Subject: But worst of all
Message:
Maharaji made sincere people believe he was their Lord God Almighty, come in human form with more power than ever before. He was here to be worshipped, loved and adored because he was the Perfect One, most blessed, God of Love in human form.

To make sincere people believe that, purely for monetary sake, is sick. Totally sick.

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Date: Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 18:21:18 (GMT)
From: mimi
Email: None
To: Christopher
Subject: Honest opinion my friend...
Message:
you have just acquired another set of beliefs: He sold you the idea that you need a master to practice the four techniques. He's deluded in his own beliefs and fantasy because that is all he knows, and he had passed the 'blessings' to all his premies. How adorable. Cults always think that they are right and that everybody else is wrong. Stop posting here and use your time to read. Investigate. We exes know what we are talking about, you don't. Get raid of the spell, would you. You don't need somebody to tell you again and again how beautiful life if. The lard sucks! I feel sorry for him. He's sick. Remember how he became the next guru when his father died? The show must continue.
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Date: Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 18:31:14 (GMT)
From: Christopher
Email: None
To: mimi
Subject: shurely shome mishtake ...
Message:
Mimi, you say: 'Stop posting here and use your time to read. Investigate.'

I say: this is part of the investigation.

You also say:
'We exes know what we are talking about, you don't.'

I say: what on earth makes you think that I'm not an ex? Have been for over twenty years. Read my Journey if you're not sure.

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Date: Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 18:43:23 (GMT)
From: oops
Email: None
To: Christopher
Subject: shurely shome mishtake ...
Message:
I dont know what happened. It must be magic, i'm confused...:)
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Date: Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 18:19:23 (GMT)
From: Ms. K
Email: None
To: Christopher
Subject: Honest opinion
Message:

Ms. K responded:
For me, there are two. One is the guilt and feeling of inadequacy that comes up when one is trying to be a 'perfect' devotee. This hurt so many people that I know - including myself.

The other is the sense of separation between people who 'have Knowledge' and those who don't, and the sense of separation between those who practice knowledge, and those who don't, and even the sense of separation between those who follow M in a 'better' way than others. Very alienating, IMHO.

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Date: Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 17:44:56 (GMT)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Christopher
Subject: My biggest beef
Message:
My biggest beef is that he twisted the idea of love into a type of bondage and demanded that people give up their most important relationships, their critical thinking, and their livelihoods in the name of 'love'.
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Date: Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 18:09:24 (GMT)
From: Sifting
Email: None
To: Helen
Subject: My biggest beef=kiss his feet
Message:
Well said! Why he allows people to kiss his feet? That tells something on itself. Kiss my feet, because you know? You owe me gratitud, u know? I told you it was a gift, but I was just kidding. I AM YOUR MASTER, YOU SERVANT! The whole thing has cult written all over...The biggest deception is the snicky way how he makes you think that is all normal, when in reality it is all ABNORMAL! Indian stuff my a...! This applies to any culture: You shouldn't kiss nobody's feet, okay? We are all equal. I have many good friends who would never ask me to kiss their feet. So? He's a guru of a cult. He should go back to India to preach, where most people are not very educated and welcome the submissive role you need to adopt to be his follower. Shame and you fat lard! Poor premies.
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Date: Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 17:44:37 (GMT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: Christopher
Subject: Honest opinion
Message:
Hi Chris,
I think I'd have to say that it is the way he expects to be adored and funded and gives no caring back or if he is caring to anyone it is a rare instance and not his way.
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Sun, Jan 16, 2000 at 07:07:57 (GMT)
From: JW
Email: None
To: Robyn
Subject: Maharaji's Smug Arrogance
Message:
I agree with all the 'beefs' stated so far. Maharaji ripped people off and messed up a lot of peoples' lives. But the WORST thing to me is that he has NEVER admitted that anything ever went wrong, nor that anybody got hurt and has NEVER taken any responsiblity for anything he did. I find this smug arrogance really reprehensible, almost worse than what he did in the first place.

Also, it's true, he's really ugly. I mean let's face it; beauty is not one of his qualities. Yes, and he has really bad taste too. Just look at that 'residence.'

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Date: Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 17:47:48 (GMT)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Robyn
Subject: procrastinating exercise
Message:
Robyn--you caught me! I am supposed to be taking my daughter swimming & here I am, still yakking! And we both posted at the same time!
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Date: Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 15:35:57 (GMT)
From: Deputy Dog
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Wrong . . . ????
Message:
Who would be wrong if your life began to work?
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Date: Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 17:14:42 (GMT)
From: Christopher
Email: None
To: Deputy Dog
Subject: Wrong . . . ????
Message:
DD,

Reading between the lines, are you trying to say that ... 'meditation works fine, so why are exes finding fault with it?' ?

Dep, it's the singer, not the song that is the main focus of exes' disatisfaction.

& while you're there, try taking this one on board:

'For a cultist to deny that they are in a cult is a classic symptom of cultist thinking.'

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Date: Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 17:22:35 (GMT)
From: Michael
Email: None
To: Deputy Dog
Subject: My life DOES work (NT)
Message:
NT means no text; sorry, nothing to read here.
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Date: Sun, Jan 16, 2000 at 17:47:31 (GMT)
From: Deputy Dog
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Clarification
Message:
What I meant by 'Who would be wrong if your life began to work,' is that we are usually our own worst ememy.

As Ram Dass said, 'It is often easier to fight an external enemy than to confront one's inner demons, and that my own inner work did as much for my fellow man as for myself. Indeed this is one of the front lines of the battle, deepening my own inner being to feed others.'

That's what I meant.

Dep

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Date: Tues, Jan 18, 2000 at 15:08:38 (GMT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Deputy Dog
Subject: Hey Dep!!!!
Message:
DD: Have you read the latest issue of 'TRICYCLE?' It's a Buddhist magazine that has all kinds of interviews and commentary. Well..... guess what? The latest issue has an interview with Ram Dass concerning his stroke. In it, he states that he's using psychedelics, again. I guess his guru disappointed him, too (even though he didn't broach that particular subject)!

So, what do you make of this? If Ram Dass is so 'enlightened,' why does he feel the need to use chemicals, again?

Actually, I like the article (the link for which I don't have) concerning the Kirpal statistic. An interesting idea, no? Maybe 'liberation' ain't so hard to get? Maybe you don't need anyone to help you. Maybe you're alot closer than you think you are. Maybe THAT is the 'big surprise!' Then again, maybe it's just 'brain poop!' No matter how you look at it, you don't now, nor did you ever, 'need' a guru! The 'experience' doesn't come from him or thru him or even around him; he has NOTHING to do with it! In fact, if anything concerning 'liberation' is true, then I believe that gurus are nothing but an impediment to it. They keep you locked in the 'external' by requiring you to pay so much attention to them, as opposed to actually meditating and getting on with it. They are a bunch of folks on a power-trip, that's ALL! All M (or any other guru) did was show you some old-hack techniques (which, by the way, I knew prior to meeting his holiness... the lard of the universe)! There is nothing more to him..... he's as empty as the glass that you just drank water from. He's as 'lost' in the physical realm as you are. His lifestyle gives ample evidence of this!

See, even if you speak totally to the 'spiritual,' he's STILL a LOSER!

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Date: Sun, Jan 16, 2000 at 19:41:35 (GMT)
From: Genital Consensualsex
Email: fourstars@generalconcensus.com
To: Deputy Dog
Subject: Clarification
Message:
'...my own inner work did as much for my fellow man as for myself.

What a bunch of crapola that is. And so typical of magical new age thinking.

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Date: Mon, Jan 17, 2000 at 02:55:02 (GMT)
From: Deputy Dog
Email: None
To: Congenital Consensualsex
Subject: Clarification
Message:

Deputy Dog responded:
Congenital Consensualsex,

So this is crappola, magical new-age thinking is it? No! It's standard hindu fare that is about 4,000 years old.

When I refered to the Bible once another exe also called that new-age crap. The other day I saw an I-Ching in the new-age section of a bookstore. The I-Ching is about 3,000 years old.

So what is old-age thinking then? People grunting like Tim Allen?

Dep

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Date: Mon, Jan 17, 2000 at 03:02:26 (GMT)
From: Genital Consensualsex
Email: fourstars@generalconcensus.com
To: Deputy Dog
Subject: Clarification
Message:

I have to confess I don't know who Tim Allen is. Tomorrow is a holiday in the US for Martin Luther King. A recent court decision decided that Dr. King was killed as a result of a conspiracy. Names were named. The King family is satisfied that the courts have recognized the true killers of MLK and it was not James Earl Ray. Did you know that? Do you care?

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Date: Mon, Jan 17, 2000 at 03:18:07 (GMT)
From: Deputy Dog
Email: None
To: Genital Consensualsex
Subject: Clarification
Message:

Deputy Dog responded:
Genital Consensualsex,

Tim Allen is a comedian who stars in the number one sitcom Home Improvement. Rent his stand up tape. He really is quite funny.

No, I didn't know that. Do I care? What can I do about it?

Dep

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Date: Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 07:58:44 (GMT)
From: Devotee
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: The facts
Message:
After reading some of the correspondence on this website I would like to make a few statements as to some facts in regards to my association with Maharaji and Elan Vital.

The facts are:-

1. I received Knowledge in 1982
2. I have enjoyed practicing Knowledge for 18 years
3. I have always been treated with respect and love by Maharaji and by his premies
4. I attended events for 10 years before ever making a monetary contribution because it never occurred to me to do so.
5. I have never been asked to contribute to any personal account of M’s
6. I have never been made to feel that I must make a financial contribution
7. I have at times been privy to some financial dealings of Elan Vital and have never seen anything but the utmost integrity and honesty in all dealings.
8. I have a loving relationship with my only son. He is not interested in Knowledge but respects my involvement.
9. I have a loving relationship with my Father. He is also not interested in Knowledge, but respects my involvement.
10. I maintain a number of long term friendships with people who do not have Knowledge
11. I will be grateful until my final breath for the endless moments of joy that Knowledge has allowed me to experience.

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Date: Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 19:44:34 (GMT)
From: hamzen
Email: None
To: Devotee
Subject: The facts
Message:
Many people who smoke don't get cancer
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Date: Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 15:40:43 (GMT)
From: Mr D
Email: david@xyzx.freeserve.co.uk
To: Devotee
Subject: Here are the true facts
Message:
Maharaji is a fraud. Any experience you might have has nothing to do with him and he is merely feeding upon your ignorance of that fact. Click here to see how gurus/masters are frauds and you'll see that Maharaji is only pretending to 'teach' something. He is completely unsuitable as any kind of teacher.
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Date: Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 08:15:55 (GMT)
From: mumu
Email: None
To: Devotee
Subject: The facts: It's a cult
Message:
Devotee=cult. You see? There is no other way around it. You need him in your life? Then, you belong to the cult. I will suggest that you begin to read and educate yourself a little. This forums have all kind of information. I used to come here as a 'devotee' and I used to write just like you, but I came across some facts that called my attention, so, I began to red more. Thanks to this forums I have learned so much! IT IS CALLED MAGICAL THINKING. His speeches put you in a trance, maybe? It's very tricky, but nevertheless, just magical thinking. You don't need maharaja to practice the four techniques. They don't belong to him. Things sometimes are not what they seem. Sorry to hear that you are a devotee. Sick professional help if you decide to stop following him; you'll need it, because then you'll see what happened to your brain for the 18 years of believing his crap. Do not judge what you cannot comprehend. You can ask questions, though.
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Date: Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 14:19:15 (GMT)
From: Errol Flynn
Email: The Young Einstien of Tasmania
To: mumu
Subject: The facts: It's a cult
Message:
I like Blue Vein cheese. I let my relatives know that I love that mouldy smelly concoction. You HATE the same cheese with unnerving passion.......So that makes me a deranged ,irrational cheese cultist?
Get off the grass mumu......your milks curdled and your looking attractive to me.
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Date: Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 15:01:32 (GMT)
From: Christopher
Email: None
To: Errol Flynn
Subject: The facts: It's a cult
Message:
How to get through to an irrational cultist that the cult is irrational?

No one said it was going to be easy.

A good 'de-programmer' knows how difficult it can be, and shouldn't expect any thanks.

I like people to wake up to the con that the Maha is getting away with.

You seem like to keeping them under his spell.

And neither are likely to call the whole thing off ...

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Date: Sun, Jan 16, 2000 at 01:47:36 (GMT)
From: Errol Flynn
Email: Mutiny on the Bounty
To: Christopher
Subject: Deprogramming is a Con.
Message:
Have you seen Jane Campion's latest movie 'Holy Smoke'.....Fabrication ,violence and deprivation...thats the Deprogrammers stock in trade. Over here they never took off...we value our personal liberty too much to allow such Dogs to prosper.9 out of 10 people complaining here have submitted themselves to other peoples will[people other than M]. They have not been discerning,and have made inappropriate decisions. THEY chose their path .No-one else!! A deprogrammer is these instances a parasitic opportunist It stuns me whilst reading WWF ForumV and AG just how little any of you really know about what is happening and how much Hot Air gets printed here as fact.Whenever Ex party line is investigated by independent assessment ,it falls apart. The difference between a kids fantasy Christmas list and what you get . And I'm Donald Trump.
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Date: Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 14:33:20 (GMT)
From: Mrs Flynn
Email: The King Island Dairy Co-operative
To: Errol Flynn
Subject: It's now Moomoo culture(nt)
Message:
vxd
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Date: Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 09:08:46 (GMT)
From: CD
Email: None
To: mumu
Subject: there are no facts
Message:
>Sorry to hear that you are a devotee. Sick professional help if you decide to stop following him; you'll need it, because then you'll see what happened to your brain for the 18 years of believing his crap.

You are crap because of yourself. Seek your own professional help.
Many people have had a great time with M.
What happened to your brain?
The truth is, its your own doing.
And nobody knows what is after death or why infinity exists.

CD

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Date: Tues, Jan 18, 2000 at 15:19:06 (GMT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: CD
Subject: there are no facts
Message:
CD: You are right, 'And nobody knows what is after death or why infinity exists.' THAT STATEMENT INCLUDES the lard of the universe! So, if he's gawd, why doesn't he know how DNA works? Why doesn't he know that seeds AREN'T DEAD? Why can't he tell us, with any definiton whatsoever, if the big-bang theory is right or wrong? It's because HE DOESN'T KNOW and NEVER DID KNOW!!!!

THE REAL FACTS: He's a parasite feeding off of your fear of death and your fear of infinity! It's just that simple! I'll bet he's actually more afraid of them than you are.

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Date: Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 16:00:59 (GMT)
From: Scott T.
Email: None
To: CD
Subject: there are no facts
Message:
And nobody knows what is after death or why infinity exists.

'Why' infinity exists presupposes that it does. 'Infinity' is a construct, and I might add, an unnecessary one. The construct 'non-unitarily conceptual' accomodates all of the conditions that the infinity construct was design for, without any of the dilemmas. Since it is as exhaustive and yet simpler than infinity it is superior.

The contention that 'there are no facts' is not even remotely useful. In other words, it's a perversion that seems to appeal to a purient mind. It's something that might be uttered by the Maquis de Sade, or Foucault.

--Scott

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Date: Sun, Jan 16, 2000 at 08:31:01 (GMT)
From: CD
Email: None
To: Scott T.
Subject: there is da kind
Message:
>'Infinity' is a construct, and I might add, an unnecessary one. The construct 'non-unitarily conceptual' accomodates all of the conditions that the infinity construct was design for, without any of the dilemmas.

I see.
Are these conclusions you have drawn from your extensive political theory training or are you just sipping some good wine?
I did find that wonderous term in a clever pile of words

>The contention that 'there are no facts' is not even remotely useful. In other words, it's a perversion

What is of no use to you is perverse.
Fact is sometimes fiction and thats a fact.

You never did like those infinitesimal points.
I don't think the reality is explainable by a concept without dilemmas.
Good to see that you are still ticking.

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Date: Tues, Jan 18, 2000 at 15:22:56 (GMT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: CD
Subject: it's 'da kine,' CD!
Message:
If you are going to 'play' hawaiian, then please be accurate! :-)

BTW, do you know what 'da kine' means? I'll give you a hint: it's pretty nebulous.

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Date: Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 08:12:47 (GMT)
From: bb
Email: None
To: Devotee
Subject: The facts
Message:
Why do you lie and exadurate?

SUre, if endless moments of joy were what you were experienceing,
How come the instuctors INCLUDEING charanand didnt?
How about raja? and have you anything to say about why prem rawat
himself goes through so much regret and has cried so much in the
nineties. Or do you even listen to him.
NO, You are a bullshitter.
That is the fact.

False advertising and twisting the past into a pleaseing shape
and going 'see?' is not doing YOU any good.

That line about 'a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards
the rest' comes to mind. DO YOU want to see things as they are
or not. DO you want to face reality in this life or not.
Are you willing to grow past your idea you cling to and
find out where the honest facts are pointing or not?

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Date: Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 09:14:34 (GMT)
From: CD
Email: None
To: bb
Subject: fun in the land of factual
Message:
>NO, You are a bullshitter.
That is the fact.

Suprised to hear this tone from you bb.
you are better.

Many people have experienced positive feelings.
Not just the results of endless analysis.
The fact is that my girlfriend and her parents get a lot of pleasure out of a lot of the recent music.
Oh sure you can diss it.
And become like some of the people here that don't have a clue.

CDC

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Date: Sun, Jan 16, 2000 at 18:29:51 (GMT)
From: bb
Email: None
To: CD
Subject: CD
Message:
Hi CD,
Hey, I'm glad the music is likable, but don't you think it is
a stretch for the thread starter to say that they have had
endless bliss for all these years?
It just set me off.

By the way, is that anyway to refer to your Fiance????
Girlfriend?
She would not like to see that word girlfriend!

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Date: Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 16:20:27 (GMT)
From: Scott T.
Email: None
To: CD
Subject: fun in the land of factual
Message:
CD:

Somewhere along the line you apparently decided that the fact that some people have positive feelings is sufficient legitimation of maharaji. The fact that you believe this to be a causality function is sufficient proof that something is wrong, since you choose to ignore the rather obvious evidence that maha apparently cannot even suffice as the engine of his own happiness or fulfillment.

This has been going on for as long as you have been posting on the forum, and according to independent corroboration, long before that. We are therefore justified in concluding that you are either perverted, or have a screw loose. Sorry about that, but since Jim isn't here someone has to do it.

--Scott

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Date: Sun, Jan 16, 2000 at 08:36:18 (GMT)
From: CD
Email: None
To: Scott T.
Subject: justified repression
Message:
>We are therefore justified in concluding that you are either perverted, or have a screw loose.

This was the tact taken by Joe McCarthy.
You are justified by your own belief and that alone.

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Date: Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 16:33:02 (GMT)
From: Shifting
Email: None
To: Scott T.
Subject: fun in the land of factual
Message:
Where is Jim?
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Date: Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 16:54:21 (GMT)
From: Christopher
Email: None
To: Shifting
Subject: Rumour that he'd been blocked?
Message:
I vaguely recall a rumour/insinuation that he'd been blocked.

And have Anth & the others walked out in sympathy?

Just a guess.

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Date: Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 17:24:50 (GMT)
From: blocked by whom?
Email: None
To: Christopher
Subject: Rumour that he'd been blocked?
Message:
blocked? I better read then if i want to understand why those guys are not here, eh? I hope they are back soon.
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Date: Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 17:39:50 (GMT)
From: Mr D
Email: david@xyzx.freeserve.co.uk
To: blocked by whom?
Subject: Rumour that he'd been blocked?
Message:
I hope that Jim hasn't been blocked from this forum. If he has then I will be starting a new pressure group.
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Date: Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 17:50:02 (GMT)
From: Scott T.
Email: None
To: Mr D
Subject: Rumour that he'd been blocked?
Message:
I think Jim's podiatrist recommended that he stay on his feet.
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Date: Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 18:12:45 (GMT)
From: Ms. K
Email: None
To: Scott T.
Subject: Ask the Forum Admins
Message:
Hi Scott,
Your sense of humor is dry and refreshing, as always (hey, how have you been anyway?).

Anyway, I had to snicker at this thread - sorry guys. I don't know who is blocked or not, but I sincerely doubt that Jim is blocked!

Take care.

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Date: Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 19:08:56 (GMT)
From: Christopher
Email: None
To: Ms. K
Subject: :ßo oops
Message:
I could have landed myself in deep doodoo here, 'cos on second thoughts, it might not have been about Jim in particular. Oops.

Last Monday, someone called Tweety, in his/her post to Roger, suggested that '... all the ex-communicated exes can just hang out here or at your site.'

Must have been the phrase 'excommunicated exes' coupled with Jim's absence that made me put two and two together and make eleven.

There was another post that I think mentioned Jim, but don't seem to be able to find it.

If I've opened a can of worms, sorry. But back on-subject again - where are Jim and Anth? Anyone know? I was hoping some info about the next Latvian Club meeting was going to appear.

Enough rambling, already.

Out.

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Date: Sun, Jan 16, 2000 at 20:34:56 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: drek@oz.net
To: Christopher
Subject: :ßo oops
Message:
As it has often been said, what goes around comes around.

This should cheer up Government Inspector (GI) as Jim has met his untimely demise at the hands of a crazed criminal that Jim successfully defended. Rather than pay Jim the hefty fee of $10,000 Canadian (about $895.00 U.S. and 450 £ in Pounds if that little pound sign don't get mangled - let's try the HTML code £) the deed was commissioned and done with the help of some Algerians passing through Victoria on their way to Seattle for a New Years eve celebration. The suspects are currently seeking a competent Death Row attorney and some character witnesses that have bad things to say about Jim.

Oh, oh! The RCMP just came to my door and handed me a cease and desist order.

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Date: Sun, Jan 16, 2000 at 20:38:34 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: drek@oz.net
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: What Ever Happened to Jim?
Message:
The subject for the previous post should have been:

What ever happened to Barrister Jim?

I know that I shouldn't even ask, but I sure wish the Subject text fields was a little longer.

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Date: Mon, Jan 17, 2000 at 01:43:55 (GMT)
From: selene jim's biggest fan
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: What Ever Happened to Jim?
Message:

selene jim's biggest fan responded:
dunno
maybe he had a moment of clarity?

this posted in lieu of my whole post that just got deleted up top.

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Date: Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 19:40:00 (GMT)
From: Ms. K
Email: None
To: Christopher
Subject: Worm Can
Message:
Hi Christopher (are you octopus?) -
Some days it seems like just opening one's mouth on these forums can open a can of worms. One of my friends says it's Post-Millenium Syndrome (another form of PMS.) Anyway, Anth and I e-mailed earlier this week, so he's around.
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Date: Mon, Jan 17, 2000 at 09:34:08 (GMT)
From: Christopher
Email: quartus@postmaster.co.uk
To: Ms. K
Subject: Worm Can
Message:
Hi, Ms K

Yup, Octopus is/was me. Glad to hear Anth is still up & running. If you're in touch with him again in the near future, could you ask if he has any idea of when the next Latvian club meeting will be? Jean-Michel emailed me recently with some v. interesting financial info. A meet might be a better way of sharing that some of that info. than on this Forum.

Cheers,

Christopher

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Date: Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 07:47:11 (GMT)
From: Runamok
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: mark of the con
Message:
The fifth technique is flipping the bird to GuruM'ragey. False Messiahs are despicable characters. Please don't try to tell me that for some reason or another M was sincere or M meant to do what he said when he promised to establish peace on earth.

I know for myself that peace on earth was the deal-clincher for me to sell my soul to Gu'M'rage'. That's when I 'signed'. Wasn't it clever that after he got the years of my dedication he slowly hedged on his promise? I can't get back what I gave to him, but he can keep what he never gave.

The mark of a con game is promises, promises.

I've heard it said several times around here: nobody can give you what is inside of you. What you experienced or experience in meditation is your own birthright. Don't insult yourself or us by thinking otherwise.

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Date: Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 17:57:11 (GMT)
From: Scott T.
Email: None
To: Runamok
Subject: The Fifth Technique
Message:
Run:

Re: The fifth technique is flipping the bird to GuruM'ragey.

The Fifth Technique

The music is half the fun.

--Scott

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Date: Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 18:07:16 (GMT)
From: Christopher
Email: None
To: Scott T.
Subject: Life's a ball. So swing!(nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 08:01:02 (GMT)
From: mumu
Email: None
To: Runamok
Subject: Maharaji is very spiritual
Message:
not. How we got scammed man!! He went from saying that he was god incarnated to selling knowledge by mail. unbelievable!
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Date: Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 08:45:47 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: mumu
Subject: Why can't you understand
Message:
His Grace is there, even by mail, or on Rawat-TV !!!!!

This is the very purpose for the trainings he's having these days on every continent with the co-ordinators.

He's the Lord, do you doubt it? Then ....... he can do anything he wants, including sending His Grace by satellite feed, or by mail.

I can see you have doubts, you need a Knowledge review brother.

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Date: Tues, Jan 18, 2000 at 15:29:41 (GMT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: BWA HA HA HA HA HA!
Message:
Doggone it, JM!!!!! I just spit coffee all over myself..... You ought to provide a 'humor warning' with your posts :-)
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Date: Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 10:19:50 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Mike
Subject: I'm sorry, send me the bill!
Message:
I can't help saying the stupid things I think....

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Date: Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 15:49:53 (GMT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: It's OK
Message:
JM: It's all wash-and-wear, ya know? :-)
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Date: Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 16:48:35 (GMT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Why can't you understand
Message:
Maraji, the gawd at the leading edge of technology! Saving himself from being to close to all those germy premies and yet allowing for their adoraton and donations!
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 07:54:21 (GMT)
From: meme
Email: None
To: Runamok
Subject: mark of the con
Message:
And now he wants to give knowledge by mail!! Anything to make money... He went from Lord of the Universe to bussinesma. Oh how he lied to us.... Once again: Sickenning!!
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Date: Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 18:09:54 (GMT)
From: Scott T.
Email: None
To: meme
Subject: mark of the con
Message:
Meme:

Here I thought by this time you'd be able to download Knowledge from the Web; and now it appears that he's still in the Dark Ages using snail mail. The poor guy. Pitifully behind the times.

--Scott

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Date: Sun, Jan 16, 2000 at 00:34:39 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Scott T.
Subject: Downloading Knowledge?
Message:
Here's the problem IMO:

Rawat doesn't have the control (yet) over the network.

See, it works on TV, he has his private channel for 1 or 2 hours, the equipment for the uplink, and for receiving.

The day he's going to have a private direct link on the net, he's going to use it .... if he's still around.

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Date: Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 18:28:47 (GMT)
From: meme
Email: None
To: Scott T.
Subject: god IS SO very much STUPID!
Message:
And he has I don't know how many people helping him. Imaging if he was alone! I am laughing so hard that I can't stop...The lord of the universe of ignorance, that's better.
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Date: Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 07:51:41 (GMT)
From: bb
Email: None
To: Runamok
Subject: mark of the con
Message:
Hi Runamok,
Old programmed types may have flashbacks, but the regular
person out there sees things without the satsang induced
hallucinations. Let them find out about his mistresses and
drinking and drugs and shunning his mom for 18 years till she
died ect, not to mention his I am god schtick, and they are
out the door.
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Date: Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 03:16:13 (GMT)
From: Brian
Email: brian@tigerriver.com
To: Everyone
Subject: Forum IV Archives fixed
Message:
The Forum IV archives are now available via the Archives Page for either downloading in ZIP format or else for reading online.

I've spent the past few days deleting the javascript that destroyed the index, the graphics and audio files that tried to self-load, the empty posts and the duplicate posts that Paradise inserted, the posts that were duplicated in mulitiple archive files, and all of the big red 'fuck yous' (they are all now small black ones).

The 19 archives (including a newly surfaced one containing the November posts) have been re-formatted into 15 readable archives comprised of 5 pages each. The pages average 170K or so, and the zipped archives average about 200K.

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Date: Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 03:27:13 (GMT)
From: Sifting
Email: None
To: Brian
Subject: Forum IV Archives fixed
Message:
GOOD JOB! Smuach
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Date: Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 06:42:47 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: drek@oz.net
To: Sifting
Subject: Forum IV Archives fixed
Message:
Thanks!
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Date: Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 07:24:52 (GMT)
From: do you mean
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: thankyou or gee thanks?(nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 01:50:10 (GMT)
From: Junior
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: BM deserves help
Message:
He needs a good article in ALL magazines about the experiences of his followers. He deserves it: Everybody needs to know the lord is here. why just few? He is so humanitarian, i mean, so generous, so humble. Remember were we were told too many times that humility was a must? No, that doesn't apply to him. He, spoiled brat, has to have the best of everything. ...hole!
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Date: Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 21:40:18 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: I'm jealous nobody fighting me
Message:
Can't understand why!

Nor can I understand why everybody's fighting with everybody ...!

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Date: Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 07:41:24 (GMT)
From: bb
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: I'm jealous nobody fighting me
Message:
cause we love youJM!
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Date: Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 07:46:16 (GMT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: bb
Subject: hi bb! :) Up late too! (nt)
Message:
ghq3
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Date: Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 05:52:27 (GMT)
From: Phred
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: I'm jealous nobody fighting me
Message:
Hi Jean-Michel,
Sorry, can't fight you. (Mahatma Ji. :-)
I'm just having a good time re-discovering what it means to be a human being. Hopefully I can always do that. It's fun looking at this site once in a while. I liked being a premie (in the 70s) just because i need to be on the edge of life. Take a chance. Hop on a ride with the Lord Of The Universe. Oh, well, good try (10 years worth). It's still fun trying to be open to what life is offering me. I'm having fun trying to really feel my emotions nowadays instead of supressing them. I see light every once in a while... It feels good. Whatever it is. Even if it's just opic nerves .. but I wasn't even touching my eyes.. I'd like to learn other techniques of meditation - any ideas?

-An old LA premie (good lord, I remember receiving k in LA from Fakiranand here in 73.. I saw light then - same thing as I saw last week. I want to learn more about life)

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Date: Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 07:45:10 (GMT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: Phred
Subject: light
Message:
Dear Phred,
Hi! I just posted somewhere about seeing light and not even touching my eyes! I have read a few people say it is only from pressing the optic nerve that light is produced but that is not my experience. Sometimes I just see 'donuts' but sometimes changing symetrical designs of a variety of colors and sometimes real life color visions of the real world, once a very pale violet lotus flower and once looking upward into the tops of tall blueberry bushes on a sunny day, to name two. Cool. Love a man who faces his emotions too. :)
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 22:45:55 (GMT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: I'm jealous nobody fighting me
Message:
Dear Jean-Michel,
I imagine if you were into fighting it wouldn't take long to get one going! Let me tell you that, for me, it isn't all it's cracked up to be. Makes me feel like shit. I have been not reading a lot of it lately and what I have read stirs a response but I hold back cause then they start in on me! Plus my mom said if I fight with any of you any more she is going to make me do all the cleaning and dishes for 3 months!
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 22:22:08 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: drek@oz.net
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: That can be arranged
Message:
Give us a little personal information about yourself.

Let's start with your shoe size and we'll take it from there.

Also, let us know what your 'safe' word is and when you utter it we promise that we'll back off.

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Date: Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 07:40:39 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: It's much, much worse!
Message:
Ok, let's get down and dirty on this guy!

Fact is that Jean-Michel is one bad ass dude. There's so much more that we've got on him besides being one of Maharaji's initiators.

Check this out!

First, somewhere in the yet to be created Forum V archives or was it Forum IV Jean-Michel told somebody to either 'Fuck off' or gave a 'Fuck You.'

Steeeee-rike one!

Marking of the Beasts:
Jean-Michel takes cute little puppy dogs and cuddly kittens and shaves off their fur down to the soft pink skin and then tattoos them! TATTOO!

Steeeee-rike two!
It doesn't stop there. Oh, no! It's much, much worse.

Are you sure that you're ready for this?

Hit your Browser's BACK button now if you would rather not know just how bad this guy is.

You're sure, now?

No, turning back.

Ready?

Ok, I'm warning you!

You'll never be the same after you read the following.

No longer will you be able to watch Hogan's Hero's and be fooled by the stereotype presented by LeBeau.

This could ruin your life...

Here it comes...

Ready or not...

Jean-Michel is a pioneer in the implantation of micro-computer chip devices into animals that will help identify them to their owners before a fatal mistake is made at the local animal pound.

Oh, you are thinking that this use of technology is a good thing. Ha! Little do you know where source of this most evil and diabolical misuse and abuse of technology comes from.

The CIA, MCI, MC5, whatever the French or Israel intelligence outfits?

No, no, no and no again.

Ready?

Really ready?

Ok...

That's right, fucking space aliens!

It's the space aliens who are pioneering, promoting, promulgating the use of these advanced micro-nano-computer chip implantations into animals in the hopes of eventual wide-spread acceptance and use in human beings at birth. That's right, at birth - in babies, cute little innocent babies.

How does this work?

The space aliens have already tagged trees and flower gardens with sensors that will detect when a dog or a cat relieves itself. Within minutes special agents hired by the Space Aliens will arrive on the scene and gather urine or feces samples and any other sources of genetic material (like hair or saliva) left by the dog or cat. These samples are taken to space alien laboratories located in secret rooms of Mc Donalds or Wendy's. Samples are then analyzed in what would innocently look to be a Mix-Master milkshake machine and the results are beamed to the Space Aliens.

Why are the space aliens doing this?

Because the ultimate goal of the space aliens is to overwhelm planet Earth with space alien spooge. That's right, spooge! And what better material is there to accomplish their task of introducing their alien philosophy onto our planet. Small, compact and very powerful. Just a milliliter goes a long, long way! Frozen in the void of deep space it can last forever.

This is not your ordinary spooge, mind you. Far from it! It is genetically engineered space alien spooge. Spooge that will eventually mutate earthly human beings into sexless, godless, big eyed, bald headed and fascist Space Aliens!

Sure, ultimately having earth completely populated by advanced space aliens will solve every problem known to man, but is it worth it?

So, you see, it starts innocently by implanting these computer chips into household pets, but just like marijuana use inevitably leads to mainlining heroin every human being will be fitted with their own micro-computer chip sending a constant stream of data to the space aliens.

And, how does Dr. Jean-Michel fit into the space alien scheme?

Jean-Michel is one of many well paid advance agents bought off by the space aliens to help promote the general use of this technology until no one bats an eye at the thought of having their own child receive one of these micro-computer chips implanted at birth. This kind of experimentation always starts off with animals before it ever reaches the human market.

Every week Jean-Michel receives a Fed-Ex package that contains these space alien designed micro-computer chips that he implants knowingly or even unknowingly to the owners of their pets in his care. J-M has elected to have his cash payments deposited in a numbered Swiss bank account.

Do you understand now? Is any of this making sense?

Whatever you do, don't visit Jean-Michel if you are ever travelling in Europe. A gracious host will Jean-Michel be. A wonderful day you will have as he shows you all the local sights. And when you arrive back to Jean-Michel's beautiful country chalet or farmhouse a wonderful meal will be ready, having been prepared by his staff.

That escargot - it's really snails. Steak tartar - really uncooked beef. Fois de gras - nah, you don't want to know.

But, it's the after dinner liqueur that you've got to watch out for. One sip will be too much. A very potent animal tranquilizer will soon have you fast asleep with the accompaniment of the soothing sounds of Brahms and Jean-Michel is showing you a slide show of his entire collection of Maharaji through out the years.

And an hour or two later you will wake up with no apparent ill effects. Only from now on everytime you walk through those shoplifter detectors at a Tower Records they will go off and security will search your bags.

Steeeee-rike three! You're out!

We're onto to you Jean-Michel.

That so called French language Forum and page you've got. That's how the space aliens and you communicate. You've forgotten that many of us studied French in high school or college.

Bon jour, Jean-Michel. Je' regarde a tor de moi. Que sera, sera!

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Date: Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 07:48:12 (GMT)
From: Shifting
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: What a good laugh...
Message:
Thanks, I needed it.....I can't stop laughing...HELP!!!
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Date: Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 22:20:03 (GMT)
From: Sifting
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: I'm jealous nobody fighting me
Message:
Go to Anything Goes. There are a couple of premies that seems feel like a fight... It must be the sun's flares affecting people. Well, can be too that the child within kicks on, u know? My toy is better... vThanks God, mi life is nobody's toy anymore. Thanks for the links you offer me. very interesting and reassuring that the best thing to do is to run away: A cult, is a cult, is a cult. Kiss the feet, is a cult, is a cult..............
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Date: Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 21:57:07 (GMT)
From: michael
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: I'm jealous nobody fighting me
Message:
Fight, fornicate, or go for your blaster - earth man!
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Date: Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 22:51:02 (GMT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: michael
Subject: I'm jealous nobody fighting me
Message:
Dear Michael,
Can I pick one? I don't want to fight and I have no idea what a blaster is so I guess that leaves fornicating! I guess if I have to. :)
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 04:53:12 (GMT)
From: michael
Email: None
To: Robyn
Subject: I'm jealous nobody fighting me
Message:
So this famous and saintly pope dies and goes to heaven. He is told that he can do whatever he wants to. He asks to please be able to read and study the real historical records. He was always deeply interested in the discussions of Moses with the Lord and wanted to see what really transpired. The goodly pope was taken to the celestial library and shown how to access whatever he might desire to study.

A few days later a great anguished cry arose from the celestial libray. When the angels and saints rushed in to see what was the matter, they found the old pope pointing to a word in an open book saying over and over, 'There's an r! An r!'

The word was - celibrate.

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Date: Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 16:50:47 (GMT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: michael
Subject: I'm jealous nobody fighting me
Message:
Dear Michael,
Thanks for that joke! :) There is a woman from my water aerobics class that sends me TO MANY forwards and many with a religous bent. I am sending her this one! Hope it gives her a bit of a shock!
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 23:57:30 (GMT)
From: michael
Email: None
To: Robyn
Subject: who is fighting who?
Message:
This is where I found that joke.

http://www.users.uniserve.com/~samuel/judi-1.htm

This site is interesting. There is some interesting thoughts and perspectives presented.

Water aerobics? I did water physical therapy in a swimming pool years ago to aid in recovering from a back sprain.

Carol came over with a box of donuts yesterday. We drank coffee and talked for hours. Then we went to see 'American Beauty'.We thought we were going to a comedy. Wow! Were we in for a surprise. The movie is worth it just for the last line alone. 'I have learned to be grateful for every moment of my stupid little life.' No, that doesn't give the movie away. I recommend seeing AB if you haven't already.

Peace - St. Michael the Demented

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Date: Sun, Jan 16, 2000 at 01:26:49 (GMT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: michael
Subject: who is fighting who?
Message:
Dear Michael,
Yes, I want to see American Beauty but have to wait for the video. I rented Cookie's Fortune, Carol recommended it and so have other movie buffs I know.
Thanks for the URL. I'll check it out! That woman won't really be upset, maybe just a bit surprised! :)
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 21:52:37 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: I'm jealous nobody fighting me
Message:
Maybe it's because you always use the same name.
It's worked for me except for this one guy....
But let's not get him back again...
oops
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Date: Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 22:05:37 (GMT)
From: Selene aka Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: I'm jealous nobody fighting me
Message:
Are you going to fight with me now?

JM

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Date: Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 22:25:30 (GMT)
From: selene
Email: None
To: i didn't post that
Subject: I'm jealous nobody fighting me
Message:
leave me alone. I'm trying to be good.
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Date: Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 07:10:27 (GMT)
From: Heidi
Email: None
To: selene
Subject: You *itch
Message:
Did you ever try to be 'good' with me?
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Date: Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 22:31:07 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Heidi
Subject: You *itch
Message:
All the time. Wasn't I?
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Date: Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 21:42:35 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Even Prem doesn't want to!
Message:
Hey Prem, put them up!!!

You're a chicken!

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Date: Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 03:37:02 (GMT)
From: Deputy Dog
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Even Prem doesn't want to!
Message:

Deputy Dog responded:
J-M,

Why doesn't M want to fight you? Do you remember the Tar Baby story from Uncle Remus?

Dep

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Date: Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 01:45:21 (GMT)
From: Runamok
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Even Prem doesn't want to!
Message:
You can have some of mine if you want them. Fighting is a bore. You could answer 'General Consensus' or however he's misspelling it these days, and I could just watch.
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Date: Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 20:19:53 (GMT)
From: Des Perado
Email: None
To: Bro Bry
Subject: Me and you
Message:
Mum's got a new cat. Well not really a new one, Timmy was found and was relocated through his chip being read by the local vet after being presented by his finder. He was on the other side of Lovell Rd in their roof! The daughter of the finder was disappointed but I told her that she could visit if she liked. (Matthew 28, 20)
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Date: Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 20:26:30 (GMT)
From: Christopher
Email: None
To: Des Perado
Subject: You and who?
Message:
The verse reads:

'Teaching them to observe all things, whatsoeuer I haue commanded you: and lo, I am with you alway, euen unto the end of the world. Amen.'

What the fuck are you on about?

And why go with the King James version. It's full of mistranslations.

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Date: Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 20:42:08 (GMT)
From: The Postmistress
Email: wyltk
To: Christopher
Subject: you is Des Perado's Big brothe
Message:

The Postmistress responded:
please don't say fuck hear. We are sons of the Late Rev Charles Garratt who was the only one in the family who would discuss M with me when I was an aspro. He smiled a lot.
The King James Version was the one read to us at our family worship after dinner for all our years up to adulthood. Familiarity did not breed cpntempt in this instance.

Besides all that, what's it to you.

Des it's time for breakfast Perado

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Date: Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 21:29:12 (GMT)
From: General Concensus
Email: fourstars@generalconcensus.com
To: The Postmistress
Subject: you is Des Perado's Big brothe
Message:
Let me see if I understand this correctly. Carol, on some sort of manic high decides she really loves Goober after all, he's a great teacher and probably more realized than the rest of us peons down here in the mud puddle and blah, blah, blah. Not only not interesting, but patently fruitcake thinking.

My my how things have grown around here...what with Jim gone (finally!) the new software, and guys like Runamok heading up the ship. Yes things are finally getting cleaned up. The fighting (I mean opposition to stilted new age unscientific thinking) has finlly abated and we can all let out a collective sheesh! and wonder what all that unpeasantness was all about.

Yes, yes, premies and ex-premies all together again, coming into new realization, a new paradigm, if you will, of cooperation and understanding. Maharaji really is the Lord and all is well with our planet. God bless you Carol, for truly you are a prophet of this new age of unity and love. And you michael for your support. And you Des for your well, just being there. Amen (TM)

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Date: Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 03:39:16 (GMT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: General Concensus
Subject: you is Des Perado's Big brothe
Message:
Dear Sus,
Why don't you just give normal discussion a chance. Maybe it won't work, but maybe it will.
Robyn
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Date: Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 21:47:33 (GMT)
From: Scott T.
Email: None
To: General Concensus
Subject: you is Des Perado's Big brothe
Message:
Am I missing something, or have I stumbled onto the collected works of Alfred E. Newman?
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Date: Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 22:35:31 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Scott T.
Subject: you is Des Perado's Big brothe
Message:

It reminds me of an event after the doors have opened, the great and powerful M has left the building, and all the premies start fighting for a seat on the shuttle.
Perhaps the GC is right, we need our leader back here to establish who is ok and who isn't.
Wonder which category I'd fit in? hmmmm......
Oh well at least I'm not a premie anymore.
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Date: Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 21:22:49 (GMT)
From: Christopher
Email: None
To: The Postmistress
Subject: Sons ...?
Message:
The Postmistress responded:

'... We are sons ...'

?????

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Date: Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 21:35:00 (GMT)
From: Reverand Concensus
Email: fourstars@generalconcensus.com
To: Christopher
Subject: Sons ...?
Message:
Waiteth with great patience brother Christopher and all will be revealed unto by the Prophetess Carol and her holy court of michael and Des.

Do not be alarmed if all things appeareth confused and without meaning. Meaning will be given unto these sacred words by the power of the holy Word. Ye must sit in silent preparation and await as one would upon a lover for the gentle breeze of true knowing to sweep back your ephemeral gauze of darkness...

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Date: Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 21:39:10 (GMT)
From: Christopher
Email: None
To: Reverand Concensus
Subject: and lovers ...?
Message:
Fanks, but I'm off to catch the bus.

Nighty night.

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Date: Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 21:32:22 (GMT)
From: christopher
Email: None
To: Christopher
Subject: and daughters ...?
Message:
Peradventure ...

why disown any part of yourself?

Postmistress, man, je do dig the perdurabo ref.

Diggeth not U?

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Date: Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 19:28:40 (GMT)
From: Carol
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: The Way
Message:

This is a letter to a premie friend I wrote today:

> I thought you would like to read this. I am also posting it at the ex-premie site. It will raise a lot of feathers there. But
I'm not afraid!

This post helps to explain some reasons why many previously devoted premies ( like Joe Whalen, David Sterling, Mark
Appleman, Bob Mishler, some local folks you know, like me, and many others) have vacillated or abandoned their
devotion. I saved the following post from someone called Anon (I think) at the ex-premie site (then I did a few spelling
corrections). This is someone who has obviously done a great deal of research and whose conclusions have (perhaps
unfortunately) caused him/her to give up (at least temporarily) devotion to Maharaji. I have been influenced by this kind
of information before. We have minds and are meant to use them for discrimination. That is the way to knowledge for
many. I understand the Hindi term: Jnana to be a way of knowledge in which an individual focuses his/her mind on the
Knowledge (the ancient techniques of meditation) itself. When I received Knowledge I reread my Bhagavad Gita and
the King James Bible (sections by the disciples on the words Jesus spoke; and I concluded quite happily that the
Knowledge was indeed the Knowledge of Knowledges and therefore Maharaji must be like Jesus and Krishna and
Buddha, etc.

I am now happiest to believe that Maharaji is alot of what I thought him to be and that he is still worthy of some
devotion, or at least gratitude, that many feel for him for revealing the Knowledge to them. I may not have gotten it any
other way than packaged the way it was in 1972 when I had been living a rather unhealthy and instable life! He may have
just saved my life and redirected me from my path of somewhat wild and self-destructive behavior! I am able to give
him the benefit of the doubt (much to the disapproval of many ex-premies, still struggling to make sense of their lives after
what they now view as a cult experience). I do not blame him for being human and making mistakes or for all the
garbage surrounding him ( much like the garbage that surrounded Jesus in the form of numerous Christian religions. The
lessons of Buddha are also recorded and practiced in many varying forms.) We, the people who followed the ones we
thought to be more than us, are the ones who really created the religions and the cults! Because our ideas were wrong,
doesn't mean the essence of what we believed was wrong. Frankly I admit that I may never know. But I know how I
want to live my life! I choose both the Bhakti (Love) path and the Jnana path; and the path of humor: sometimes
including irreverence; of kindness and compassion; and of honesty and trust! I draw from every teacher, including
everyone I meet, what I can learn or know through love or study. I learn from my own emotions and reactions to others.

I still love Maharaji. But then, I tend to feel love for everyone I ever loved, and even some people I don't even know,
regardless of their worthiness. And I am grateful I have known him and want to begin to keep in touch again with him.
But I have changed my earlier perspective to believe that Jesus and Buddha and Maharaji and others are the great
examples of SELF-realization, not the great exceptions. And I don't mean that any of them lived their lives so that their
actions are meant to be examples of how to live, in the world wherever we do what we do! I believe our 'inner' or 'real
'or 'greater' self is present and is the witness , the means and the end; despite what we do, our particular roles or
characters, or conclusions about what we think!! Each of us has IT built into us; to be uncovered in our own time,
depending on many influences and experiences, and in our own peculiar ways. Each person's way, or life is beyond
judgment and reproach of any other human being! Barring the natural consequences of various kinds of miserable
choices we might make, there is no one to answer to but yourself! And we are all the same in that respect. If we
perceive ourselves to have energy or soul or substance beyond our given number of years on earth or our personalities,
then it is truely only 'in our own hands' to direct it or uncover it! But ...'We get by with a little help from our friends!'

I know many of you don't believe we will become anything more than compost or ashes when we die... and you only
believe in science, but that's your way! I honor your way, too! I don't know if you are wrong or right! It doesn't effect
my path or journey!) No one can give another person enlightenment...just point to the way. Even Maharaji is not the
destination,premies, he is a pointer! Remember the satsang about the sign on the freeway? He said, to paraphrase:
you're not supposed to stop the car under the sign! You'll never get to your destination that way!

We are all just a bunch of puddle jumpers down here. We have to use the knowledge (defined by me for you nit pickers
as: you know, the information and all of the stories and happenings that shape our thoughts!!)! We have to grow
ourselves and help each other when we get stuck in a puddle and think that's all there is to experience. I respect
Maharaji as one of my greatest teachers. I recognize that he may be closer to knowing his true nature than you or I and I
can't judge or second guess his means to spread his knowledge. I just have to look inside myself, as he has for so long
advised, to find my path to enlightenment. I refuse to be a fundamentalist of anything, so I have abandoned my previous
fervent tendencies to say 'This is The Way!' or to judge the life of another, bestowing on them either your approval or
disapproval! I honor your way. It is not so different than mine, I think!

With Love, Your friend Carol

**Post by Anon (If I remember it right, I didn't enter the name)

Somebody mentioned a book about Sant Mat and the Indian Tradition. There are literally volumes
of books written about the Sant Mat and Radhasomai Masters and their teachings (as you can see
by the list below which represents merely the tip of the ice berg). Many were written by western
followers who spoke of their new found Masters as if they were the harbingers of a revelatory
Spiritual Science. Happily they embraced the appealing notion of a lineage of enlightened avatars,
thrilled and honored that they were the disciples of a real, live Lord.

In the 30's and 40's many such Westerners were attracted to Masters in India
('Sants'='Saints') One of the most famous was Sawan Singh (1903-1948). His secretary
apparently reported to David Lane that even Shri Hans Ji (Maharaji's father) was instructed by
Sawan, at some time. The terminology, meditation techniques and practices of these groups
was the very same of that of early DLM even down to the motto 'Work is Worship'. Maharaji's
father would have been one of a number of gurus who each advocated that, to have an
experience of the 'divine' in this lifetime, one needed to humbly approach a living 'Sant' a

'Satguru', and be initiated by him into the practice of meditation. Initiates were always urged to
keep secret what they were privately taught.

Another very famous Radhasoami master was Charan Singh (1951-1990). He, again, was
responsible for spreading his own brand of the fundamentally the same philosophy to the
West in a big way.

Premies may feel that it is only coincidencidental and furthermore of no consequence that
the techniques and experiences described by those groups are/were indistinguishable from
theirs..

What is, after all, the point of comparing Maharaji with these antique Indian pretenders? If you
are thirsty for water now and someone offers you a drink, then of what importance is it that a
few other distant, bearded and be-turbaned gents may be, or were, also capable of doing so?
Maharaji puts himself out to travel : to make it easy for us, in this time, in this world to receive
this satisfaction-this gift from him-now.

Perhaps Maharaji could have 'come' as a member of any caste, color and creed...he may,
equally, have chosen to be born into a family of Finnish fishermen and still his message would
have been the same. The fact that all these other Indians taught and said that they have the
same thing to offer is a fluke...It was of no influence to him.

None but an irrational zealot would posit that this was the case.

It sometimes seems a little hard to understand why Maharaji would appear to think that a
'Master...' (in his own words) '...is a Master is a Master ' etc. He seems to stress that being
a Master is such a self-made thing. How much does a Master bring with him (from
somewhere else?) of his own autonomous plan for the world and how much (if at all) is he
influenced by the world into which he unceremoniously plops?

Maharaji has obviously gradually realized how unproductive it was to persist in promoting the
influence of Indian tradition within his western ventures, and so has made some adjustments
to avoid the considerable problems that arose. Some would like to paint a picture of a past
where Maharaji had always been struggling against some stubborn breed of premies who
sought to keep the Knowledge Indian. I beg to disagree. Those who were there will indeed
recall that he himself actively promoted such things as Ashrams, Arti, Darshan, Satsang,
Service (Seva) and of course his distinctly more demanding version of the meditation that has
now come to be known as 'Practice'. Yet still the essence of his message remains exactly
the same, and as far as I can see, closely resembles that of all those other gurus in his old
neighborhood.

If a little unhappy (when sporting his now easy American persona) to be reminded of the
traditionally rigid demands that he imposed on his first wave of western followers, he is clearly
still ecstatic that his Indian followers continue toworship him in the old traditional way.

Maharaji publicly pays a frustratingly brief deference to the line of Particularly Great Masters
who apparently preceded him. He manages in one small webpage to link himself
(mysteriously) to some recent and medieval Indian saints (NB. Every man an Indian! What
did they do there to deserve all the Lords of the Universes?? It's not fair. Is God that unfair?
.Anyway, seeing his gallery of revered Masters, all peering forth from their digitally-enhanced
photos (that tell so little), I was reminded (thinking laterally) of my own attempt at genealogy.
I had indeed fancied for a while that I myself may, quite legitimately, claim descent from William
of Normandy. The appeal of this grand pedigree dimmed when some eminent anthropologist
on the TV, explained that everyone alive today could actually claim Nero as their fond ancestor.
Oh well...

Is it not a little presumptive of him to announce this lineage without some more background?

So what does this gallery of his tell us?
It rather shyly announces (to a largely captive audience I expect) that he is dealing in the
same currency as these respected Saints. One cannot help but feel that this is a slightly
naive attempt to bolster respect for himself. If he is reluctant about elaborating, could it be
that he knows that any in-depth analysis of the historical facts would also reveal a culture of
gurus riddled with inconsistencies and contradictions. Are we to believe that all those he
mentions were somehow the only beacons of light amongst a sea of pretenders? It is merely
the unlikelyhood that strikes one so forcibly when faced with a more complete overview of the
past.

All this is maybe not an argument for his message being entirely irrelevant. It is not intended
to be so. However, I found , when going through a stage of feeling uneasy about being a
premie, that I needed to acknowledge that I had submitted, without enough consideration, at
an early age, to an age-refined and persuasive doctrine about which I had assumed much.
Reading about the Indian roots convinced me that I had unwittingly taken on many attitudes
and beliefs that were very particularly rooted in the religious beliefs and practices of generations
of a certain Indian group.
of a certain Indian group.

I now see Maharaji in a different light. I maybe thank him for 'the good stuff' but cannot help
feeling some degree of having been misled into trusting (opening) myself to the demands and
guidance of a Master who, however much he may regret it now, in practice was responsible
for subjecting me to an overly strict, culturally inappropriate, medieval, abusive, alien
religious culture. Since trust is an essential dynamic in Maharaji's definition of the Master
/Disciple relationship, I find myself reluctant to continue to even accept the more appealing of
his recommendations, lest I should later find myself similarly manipulated.

So here are are just a few of the books I have heard of, there are literally hundreds more I have
found reference to:

SOAMI JI MAHARAJ

Sar Bachan
BABA JAIKAL SINGH
Spiritual Letters (to Huzurr Maharaj Sawan Singh: 1896-1903)

HUZUR MAHARAJ SAWAN SINGH
The Dawn of Light (letters to Western disciples: 1911-1934)
Discourses on Sant Mat
My Submission (introduction to Philosophy of the Masters)
Philosophy of the Masters (Gurmat Sidhant, 5 volumes (an
encyclopedia on the teachings of the Saints)
Philosophy of the Masters (abridged)
Spiritual Gems (letters to Western disciples: 1919-1948)
Tales of the Mystic East (as narrated in satsangs)
SARDAR BAHADUR JAGAT SINGH MAHARAJ
The Science of the Soul (discourses and letters: 1948-1951)
MAHARAJ CHARAN SINGH
Die to Live (answers to questions on meditation)
Divine Light (discourses and letters: 1959-1964)
Light on Saint John
Light on Saint Matthew
Light on Sant Mat (discourses and letters: 1952-1958)
The Master Answers (to audiences in America: 1964)
The Path (first part of Divine Light)
Quest for Light (letters: 1965-1971)
Spiritual Discourses
Spiritual Heritage (from tape-recorded talks)
Teachings of the Saints (first chapter of Die to Live)
Thus Saith the Master (to audiences in America: 1970)
Truth Eternal (a discourse)
BOOKS ABOUT THE MASTERS
Call of the Great Master---Diwan Daryai Lal Kapur
Heaven on Earth-Diwan Daryai Lal Kapur
Treasure Beyond measure- Shanti Sethi
With a Great Master in India- Dr. Julian P. johnson
With the Three Masters, 3 volumes---from the diary of Rai
Sahib Munshi Ram

BOOKS ON SANT MAT IN GENERAL

The Holy Name- Miriam Bokser Caravella

In Search of the Way-Flora E. Wood

The Inner Voice- Colonel C.W. Sanders

Liberation of the Soul-J.Stanley White, Ph.D.

Message Divine-Shanti Sethi

Mystic Bible-Dr.Randolph Stone

The Mystic Philosophy of Sant Mat-Peter Fripp

Mysticism, The Spiritual Path, 2 volumes-Prof. Lekh Raj
Puri

The Path of the Masters-Dr. Julian P.Johnson

Radha Soami Teachings-Prof. Lekh Raj Puri

A Soul's Safari-Netta Pfeifer

Teachings of the Guru-Prof. Lekh Raj Puri

Yoga and the Bible-Joseph Leeming

MYSTICS OF THE EAST SERIES

Bulleh Shah-J. R. Puri and T.R. Sharigari

Dadu, The Compassionate Mystic-K. N. Upadhyaya, Ph.D.

Dariya Sahib, Saint ofBihar-K. N. Upadhyaya, Ph.D

Guru Nanak, His Mystic Teachings-J. R. Puri

Guru Ravidas, Life and Teachings-K. N. Upadhyaya, Ph.D

Kabir, The Great Mystic-Isaac A. Ezekiel

Kabir, The Weaver of God's Name-V. K. Sethi

Mira, The Divine Lover--V. K. Sethi

Saint Namdev, His Life and Teachings--J. R. Puri and V.
K. Sethi

Saint Paltu-Isaac A. EzekielSant Charan Das-T. R. Shingari

Sarmad, Jewish Saint of India-Isaac A. Ezekiel

Sultan Bahu-J. R. Puri

Tukaram, Saint of Maharashtra-C. Rajwade

Tulsi Sahib, Saint of Hathras-J. R. Puri and V. K. Sethi**


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Date: Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 08:04:05 (GMT)
From: bb
Email: None
To: Carol
Subject: NOT The Way!
Message:
Carol, it is only out of ignorance and being gullible to
eastern thought that still throws Anon.

His lifting up of the eastern misunderstanding of life is
hardly well thought out and your giddy embrace of it is
a cry for help.

DO you want to discuss this with me yes or no.

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Date: Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 21:57:15 (GMT)
From: Anon
Email: None
To: bb
Subject: NOT The Way!
Message:

Anon responded:
As a matter of interest what exactly is 'hardly well thought' out about what I wrote?

You say that I am gullible to Eastern thought and that I am 'thrown' by it. I don't think I am.

I don't feel 'thrown' by it in the least, neither do I feel gullible to it. In fact, I would say that I am relatively disinterested in it, but, after much consideration and deliberation, am consequently better guarded against the pitfalls of it.

You are, of course, entitled to your opinions, but I am a little surprised that this is your impression. I suppose I have gone on about the Indian stuff rather a lot here. That doesn't mean I am easily impressed by it. Quite the opposite actually.

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Date: Sun, Jan 16, 2000 at 18:44:04 (GMT)
From: bb
Email: None
To: Anon
Subject: Anon and Carol:)
Message:
Hi Anon,
Sorry about the 2:30 am after a long work day post.

Seeing some of her sentences just kind of cooked my brain and
by the time I got to reading your words I was already reeling.

Anyway, it IS an interesting subject, AND, by the way, I hope you
do have the memory to recall all the fine things I have said to and
about you.

I always read your posts of course and tell you to post more
because you dont aften as ANON.

In my own efforts to detatch from prem rawat and a lifetime
of satsang, I had to certainly wrestle with the dna, eastern and
'western' (if you will), views on god and life.

I dont mind discussing it with you and Carol, but I would like
to start fresh and back away from that late night post I posted.

So, is that ok with you?
Sorry about the freshness but Carols comments, caught me off gaurd
to say the least.

How about if I print out the post and start a thread about it up top.

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Date: Sun, Jan 16, 2000 at 20:49:16 (GMT)
From: Anon
Email: None
To: bb
Subject: Anon and Carol:)
Message:
I always read your posts of course and tell you to post more because you dont aften as ANON.

Er..thanks or something... I don't post under any other pseudonym as a matter of fact. I did once or twice circa 1997- but not since. I think it creates too much confusion.

I dont mind discussing it with you and Carol, but I would like to start fresh and back away from that late night post I posted.
So, is that ok with you? Sorry about the freshness but Carols comments, caught me off gaurd to say the least.How about if I print out the post and start a thread about it up top.

I accept your goodwill and your offer to continue the discussion. Do as you will. However in all honesty I can't promise that I will be totally on the case this week, since I have to do a lot of work now. I will check out anything you post - but don't put yourself out on my behalf!

Incidently, I just had a visit from some quasi-premies (one an ex-instructor) who went to this eagerly anticipated 'satellite event' just now.
Apparently it wasn't a 'live' feed. Anyway I gather Maharaji took the opportunity to serenade his audience with some Indian instument that he has been practicing! Also, he evidently brushed on the 'stop complaining and simply enjoy knowledge' tack. I suppose that it's 'us lot' that are the accused champion complainers. Not so unhealthy in my opinion. If there wasn't anything to complain about there would be no complaints! Now that's what I call simple.

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Date: Sun, Jan 16, 2000 at 20:49:14 (GMT)
From: Anon
Email: None
To: bb
Subject: Anon and Carol:)
Message:
I always read your posts of course and tell you to post more because you dont aften as ANON.

Er..thanks or something... I don't post under any other pseudonym as a matter of fact. I did once or twice circa 1997- but not since. I think it creates too much confusion.

I dont mind discussing it with you and Carol, but I would like to start fresh and back away from that late night post I posted.
So, is that ok with you? Sorry about the freshness but Carols comments, caught me off gaurd to say the least.How about if I print out the post and start a thread about it up top.

I accept your goodwill and your offer to continue the discussion. Do as you will. However in all honesty I can't promise that I will be totally on the case this week, since I have to do a lot of work now. I will check out anything you post - but don't put yourself out on my behalf!

Incidently, I just had a visit from some quasi-premies (one an ex-instructor) who went to this eagerly anticipated 'satellite event' just now.
Apparently it wasn't a 'live' feed. Anyway I gather Maharaji took the opportunity to serenade his audience with some Indian instument that he has been practicing! Also, he evidently brushed on the 'stop complaining and simply enjoy knowledge' tack. I suppose that it's 'us lot' that are the accused champion complainers. Not so unhealthy in my opinion. If there wasn't anything to complain about there would be no complaints! Now that's what I call simple.

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Date: Tues, Jan 18, 2000 at 03:03:38 (GMT)
From: bb
Email: None
To: Anon
Subject: Anon and Carol:)
Message:
Hi Anon,
I had no actual idea that you had posted under another
name, just when I was typeing, I realized that I didnt know
if you did or not.
I still do regret commenting about you like that, I do have
to say your posts were very helpful to me for a long time
when I was reeling from the transition from devotee to
not one.

Tell you what, I will just follow one of your future
posts with a post.
That way, I wont be burdening you with having to look for
a post.

On reading more of Carols recent posts, I think it is
ok to just let her express and evolve and do what I do
more often than not here.....which is just read.

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Date: Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 09:12:19 (GMT)
From: Carol
Email: None
To: bb
Subject: NOT The Way!(I know that)
Message:
Sure, I'd love to discuss! But not tonight! You missed my point! Please read my response to Robyn.
carol
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Date: Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 07:45:34 (GMT)
From: bb
Email: None
To: Carol
Subject: Where is JIM........(nt)
Message:
sdaga
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Date: Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 09:15:26 (GMT)
From: Carol
Email: None
To: bb
Subject: Yeah, I wondered that,too
Message:
Powerman isn't nearly as aggressive as Jim was to my ideas 1 1/2 years ago!!!!!! How is he doing? I'd still like to meet him in person!
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Date: Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 07:47:15 (GMT)
From: bb
Email: None
To: bb
Subject: Did you smoke pot tonight?..nt
Message:
dfgh
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Date: Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 09:18:07 (GMT)
From: carol
Email: None
To: bb
Subject: No, haven't for years and
Message:
won't again unless it's legal. Too much risk. Plus it makes me feel like nothing really matters.
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Date: Sun, Jan 16, 2000 at 18:32:49 (GMT)
From: bb
Email: None
To: carol
Subject: No, haven't for years and
Message:
Excuse me for asking but it wsa 2:30 am or so and well.....
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Date: Mon, Jan 17, 2000 at 18:50:13 (GMT)
From: carol
Email: None
To: bb
Subject: It's cool,I'm cool, you're OK
Message:
nt
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Date: Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 01:43:15 (GMT)
From: Your angel
Email: None
To: Carol
Subject: The Way
Message:
To deny a love once felt is to disconnect one's self from with their past. Your post is a bridge that no doubt will heal and keep you on the road of growth and discovery. I admire your wisdom!
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Date: Mon, Jan 17, 2000 at 19:19:46 (GMT)
From: carol
Email: None
To: Your angel
Subject: Thankyou
Message:
Sorry I didn't acknowledge the presence of an angel before now! carol
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Date: Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 14:05:30 (GMT)
From: Scott T.
Email: None
To: Your angel
Subject: The Way
Message:

Scott T. responded:
But recognizing that the loved one is not worthy of admiration changes the nature of love. It is not denial of love as a principle or even as an experience. It also manages to not foreclose the possibility of a better future.
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Date: Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 23:05:11 (GMT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: Carol
Subject: The Way
Message:
Dear Carol,
Damn it, girl! When I saw your post and Pman right behind you I got to thinking that I could post something like he really just has a crush on you! I was even going to write a little kids song. Now you've ruined it for me. :(
I have to say that although I don't think you are making a fool of yourself here I do agree with him and you don't know how much that bothers me! I know you spent forever on it too since you've mentioned your slow typing. God, I emailed a dream I'd had about a friend yesterday and it took so long and it was half as long as your post and I am a pretty fast typist!!
I believe in your right to believe in what you choose but I do wonder what it is in you that you feel makes you an ex-premie. I also have to admit to cringing reading that you still feel devotion toward M. To me he has hurt people and disregarded to much to keep up his life style. I do get something out of doing the word and light, and guess what I don't even touch my eyes when I do it so it isn't from pressing my optic nerve. But I know M isn't responsible for my learning the techniques, as a mahatma taught me, must be why he is the only one to show them now and certainly I don't believe that he gives you anything most of all your meditational experience.
Personally Carol, I still enjoy your positive attitude but if I was a friend that lived close by and we saw each other often I'd probably have to just agree to dissagree on this and leave it off.
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 09:08:54 (GMT)
From: carol
Email: rbruce@teleport.com
To: Robyn
Subject: No one way just your own way!
Message:
Hi Robyn, Why do I think I'm an ex-premie?
I am not much different than I ever was. I never held M responsible for my pain or felt he was purposefully hurting or scamming anyone. His introduction of the meditation and my resulting feelings of gratitude and devotion were, I believe good things for me. The premies and the cult-ure of the communities and the words M said all changed over the years as did my and everyone's conclusions about it all. Most of us at one time or another during the 70' and 80's were pretty judgmental of eachother and put a lot of guilt trips on each other and ourselves, but none were worse than the ones that came from my owm mind! I was relieved at one point when M told us we did not have to meditate! It was a choice. (Well, DUH!) I thought 'oh, boy, I can just do it when I want and I don't have to feel guilty.' I had never been a very obedient premie and I had almost always modified the techniques or the posture or the time, etc. etc.

I had a lot of issues to process over abuse, failed marriages, drug use, and add to that the multiple changes in the way K was delivered and what we were supposed to do, like destroy all your old pictures and magazines (I didn't), don't give satsang, I still did to some people and included the history we were supposed to forget. I stopped telling anyone about the good aspects of recieving K many years ago because I saw little outward evidence of it helping people be better human beings, as I sort of defined that as being kinder and more accepting of differences and helpful to others. I went from seeing him every time I could afford it (Or take turns with my previous husband)in the 70's, to four programs to see him between 1980 and the present, the last one in 1993 or 94 in San Diego when I was there anyway for my brother-in-laws memorial service. Plus a dozen or so videos, the last being about 2 years ago. My 3rd husband was open and interested in K, but after seeing him once at aprogram and a few videos, he concluded that he did not have the patience or endurance to sit in front of a TV for hours and hours and fly around the world on short notice to get something that required him to be a devotee! i understood. We donated some money towards his jet, and a little more some other times, because I still valued the Knowledge, even though I didn't formally meditate much and I still felt love for him (along with a sadness that things were not going much like I thought they would in the world or the premie communities after M had been working to spread Knowledge so long. I entered counseling over abuse and co-dependency and self-esteem issues in 1989 and had it regularly for about 2 years privately and then intermittently, including a later year of group therapy with AMAC. I began to reconstruct the parameters of my understanding. In 1991, an old premie friend (who still loved M and K and practiced it and went to programs invited me and my family to come to a Sundance ceremony that he was dancing in). I was inspired to focus again on meditation and prayer and on learning and practicing the Lakota way as well. It really helped my healing process and also taught me for the first time, the value of prayer as a way to set your intentions toward positive goals and gentle behavior, respecting all life forms and all beliefs. My premie friend was aloving and open and inspirational person, and I repected him and his beliefs and the right to have them whatever way he chose!

I also began to meditate more frequently until it became almost automatic, (again, my own variation and my private feelings and benefits!) A perception I'd had about the ridiculousness of comparing 'religious experiences' or judging or comparing anyone else's spirituality or the truth of their beliefs became more reinforced in me during this time. I discovered that there are fundamentalists of all stripes in all faiths; and people 'with huge egos' or rude personalities that think you should be just like them, or do what they do or else you are inferior or ignorant or WRONG!I had a few total bliss out feelings that lasted for quite awhile, apparently a result of my change of thinking, and adding of prayer and meditation to my life again. I was growing a new sense of self esteem and greater hope. I felt altruistic feelings. I ran a sweat lodge a few times until I realized out of respect for myself and for the Lakota religion, that I could not be a teacher of that. My beliefs were more universal. We went to a Unitarian church ans I even showed a M video to a women's group I was in there, and did a presentation about Native American ceremonies and symbols, and universal truths. The value of any object, is only the value that you give to it through your belief. And the value of prayer is to really think about and proclaim to yourself, what you are really pleased with or grateful for in your life or what you really want to change. Prayer to me is what I call 'setting an intention' after honest examination. I enjoy affirmative prayers and prayers of thanks. I learned many wonderful Lakota songs and prayers,and crafts; and I made drums for my family menbers and Stan and Miles.

I began to make larger footprints (baby steps really)in the sand of my own life! I would not believe or accept what others told me how good or bad or right or wrong my way, my practice, or my beliefs were.
There were many more difficult developments in my life through the years, especially dealing with my 3 oldest boys problems and also tending to my little one. I made steady progress toward becoming the kind of person I wanted to be...aligning my values with my behavior and taking responsibility for my own actions and reactions. I had a long bought of pnuemonia entered into a struggle with Fibromyalgia and depression until I got help from an excellent woman psychiatrist.
In 1997, I looked up Maharaji on the internet when we got it and found the Forum. I expected him to be making good use of the technolgy to connect people. I was very disappointed. Instead I found you. At first I just observed and read once in awhile, not very often. I gave things some thought ( I was also very busy using the internet to find out about Tourette and Asperger Syndrome which my son had just been diagnosed with and trying to educate and make positive changes for him at school. I also started doing Hospice volunteering). Later, when school was out I began to really look at all my attitudes about M and K and began posting here. At first I was intimidated and worried about posting anything. For good reason given all th attacks I got for expressing myself honestly and sounding too much like a 'New Age bubblehead' Ah!... finally a place I can talk about knowledge and Maharaji and my life. But I was challenged and was grateful for and able to handle the challenges. Hated the name-calling and personal attacks and meanness. Loved the caring and more open people here, like you Robyn and Katie and Mickey the Pharisee and I got into the humor and gleeful irreverence. God! people can be so serious!!!

'Some things are too serious to be taken seriously!' Some famous Physics guy said that decades ago!

I proclaimed myself an ex-premie because I denounced most of what I had thought it meant to be a premie. I wasn't an obedient premie, I was damn right rebellious! I saw a lot of things wrong with a lot of things about the whole big trip that we and Maharaji created. I figured I might as well admitt that I wasn't a (good) premie, and I did not value (my concept of) Maharaji or his Knowledge above all else, therefore I wasn't a premie and I did not want to judge myself or others by any of the typical premie criteria.

I was (and am) sick of all sources of judgement, bias, prejudice, etc. I was not a devotee,by the meaning of one who devotes oneself to the will of any other. But I still did and still do feel love towards him and think he is basically a good person who grew up in front of us with a lifetime of experiences very uniquely different than ours. has just about had to wear blinders to the criticism that has been incessantly directed toward him by premies and ex's and never-been-premies. He has often had very poor communication skills andespecially in relationship areas (especially the relatoinships with his past devotees!!!)

He is also very involved in the present moment or his day's activities and has trained his mind not to attend to or give harbor to negative thoughts. I think this is true. I have very good friends who I trust who are as you call them PAMS to some degree. I have recently started talking about all this stuff with them as well as you! I am free and so are you! Why do humans seem to always want to judge and compare and take sides and have enemies...Don't answer, it's just the way we are! Isn't that crap what you hated most about the premie scene we used to knoiw? I don't want to do that anymore and I hope you don't either! Reach out a little and (respectfully) start talking to the people you thought you couldn't talk to! Go check out what M is really saying and doing if you want to continue to judge and compare and condemn! I am doing that. I am going to the Satellite event on Sunday at ! pm pacific time. I will tell you what I feel/think afterwards, if you want me too.

I know from 'experience' (that word some of you disapprove of so much) that this ex-premiedom is a very painful place to dwell too long. It is too full (for me) of victim thinking and blame and rigidity of thinking. Some of you are becoming fundamentalist ex-premies! Others of you are more accepting of everyone's right to believe however they believe and to be right!(for them!

Why should you care whether or not I am a premie or an ex? It's just another excuse to judge, stereotype and discriminate! That doesn't make anyone happy or change anyone else's 'bad' experience into 'good'. Just work on yourself if you think anyone needs to change! no one can really judge you or make sense of your life but you! No one can enlighten anyone else. Any change we seek has to start with you. We are IT! It is inside of you....all the love you ever thought came from outside of you was a reflection of you!

Remember the Beatle's song 'I'm Fixing a hole where the rain came in and stopped my mind from wandering, where it will go-oo-oo-ooooo!'
Go see the movie 'American Beauty' (I saw it earlier tonight with michael the demented cause he had been feeling kind of down, and we loved it!!! and see 'Dead Man' and 'The Green Mile'. Or, go do something else you enjoy. I hope you can help each other heal and move forward in your own chosen direction!
With love and respect for you and whatever you choose to believe.
Carol
PS Goodnight...It's 1 am and I don't have time to read more posts today!Maybe not for a few days, so I will get back to responding to you if you want, later. or e-mail me!

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Date: Sun, Jan 16, 2000 at 03:13:56 (GMT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: carol
Subject: No one way just your own way!
Message:
Dear Carol,
I hope I wasn't to hard on you considering I do like and respect you for working on and facing things in your life and for speaking out here knowing it wouldn't be easy. I do not agree with what you believe about M but I don't take your right away to believe it. How could I, I'm not god! :)
I came here after many years and no bad experiences while in the cult but reading the forum my heart was touched by the stories of people, mostly young people, feeling they had found the living Meshiah. Their strong belief insisted they follow, what is the word, aga and turn their backs on their families, friends and often times themselves. There was a post here about an ashram prieme who had worked and contributed to his ashram and the organisation in general and then when he came down with a serious degenerative disease he was thrown out because the ashram didn't want to waste the money on him that could be spent of M in some way. This hurts my whole being and there are countless similarly heart breaking stories. I could not help but be effected by them.
I don't have any respect for someone who can idilly disregard the human element in those who worshiped him. I believe that he did, at some point, change from believing, when he was young and then he was just afraid to live a normal life and he began to change and lose his caring. I believe he fears the lose of the income he needs to live in style and hates that he has to get his money this way. Distancing himself more and more from the people who are HIS premies, ie. mail order k.
I hope you can understand this as I am quite tired. I do not even say you SHOULD think the way I do here, I am just telling how I feel.
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 17:14:34 (GMT)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: carol
Subject: judging good bad etc
Message:
It's kind of scary to sit in judgment of another person but I do sit in judgment of Maharaji. I used to try not to judgmental of people, because I so longed to see myself as someone who wasn't judgmental, but I have changed my tune on that. I think we all make judgments on a regular basis, and I would hope that my daughter would do the same (ie, make judgments about who she chooses for friends, lovers, etc). I don't see judgement as a bad thing anymore,, although it has been scary to give up my own self-image as a non-judgmental person. That was a personae that I wore throughout the years when I strove to be the perfect spiritual person, it has been such a relief to give that up. I have to accept responsibility for the judgments I make, and reevaluate them when I have misjudged, but I would not give up the ability to judge for anything.

I am not saying you have to follow the same path as me, Carol, you seem like someone who has done alot of self-examination, but I disagree on some of your points, that's all.

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Date: Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 13:52:30 (GMT)
From: Scott T.
Email: None
To: carol
Subject: No one way just your own way!
Message:
Carol:

Re: But I still did and still do feel love towards him and think he is basically a good person who grew up in front of us with a lifetime of experiences very uniquely different than ours. has just about had to wear blinders to the criticism that has been incessantly directed toward him by premies and ex's and never-been-premies. He has often had very poor communication skills andespecially in relationship areas (especially the relatoinships with his past devotees!!!)

He is also very involved in the present moment or his day's activities and has trained his mind not to attend to or give harbor to negative thoughts. I think this is true.

I have to call you on this one, dear. There is just no way you could determine this about Maharaji one way or the other, though it may be true of your idea of him. I don't know what he's like in actuality, and it doesn't matter. What's important is whether he's considerate (not whether he has good communication skills), and by virtue of his behavior and personal choices he is not. (See my response to 'Flawed Master' for a definition of what I feel is the requisite consideration of a charismatic leader.) You must be prepared to judge him harshly in this regard, if you wish someday to judge another by the same standards and come to a different conclusion.

--Scott

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Date: Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 17:27:16 (GMT)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Scott T.
Subject: I agree Scott
Message:
I agree, Scott. We can only judge others based on their behavior towards others, and the evidence is there--M is NOT considerate, caring, or loving in the way he treats others. I have to judge him by the same criteria I would judge any other mortal human being, and he comes up way short of someone deserving of even minimal respect.

I think the big hook is that M portrayed himself as someone who is not mere mortal, therefore his ways 'were not the ways of us' and we stood in mysterious awe, clouded by our longing to know that someone stood above all the shit of the human condition and could lead us into the light. We also bought into the myth that he behaved that way for our ultimate spiritual development. Or we bought into the myth that is was so hard being a Perfect Master, or so good of him to lower himslef to our gross physical level, or whatever justification we could come up with for his behavior. I think the shift that happened in me, that enable me to look at him objectively as the despicable human being that he is, was when I realized he was just another flawed, human being, who made CHOICES, bad choices. I now I hold him responsible for those choices.

How the hell are ya Scott? Send me an email sometime when you have the chance.
Helen

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Date: Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 17:46:56 (GMT)
From: Scott T.
Email: None
To: Helen
Subject: I agree Scott
Message:
Helen:

I keep coming back to George Washington as an example of 'good charisma.' There was a recent docu-drama called 'The Crossing' that provides an inkling of the role he played. At one point in the history of the revolution the future of the country depended on the integrity of one man, and the good judgment of others to follow him. And nothing in his subsequent history would indicate that there was anything false about that perception or judgment. Not perfect, he nontheless had a reliable core.

Assume you still have the same email address?

--Scott

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Date: Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 17:56:53 (GMT)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Scott T.
Subject: Leaders like GW, TJ, FDR
Message:
and MLK Jr, who has a b'day coming up.
I really agree with you about figures/leaders such as G.W. I recently read the book 'Undaunted COurage' about the Lewis and Clark expedition and was constantly amazed with their journey adn all the decisions they had to make. Sleeping with women with syphillis along the journey NOT one of the best decisions, BTW! What a horrible disease THAT is. That kind of history book is probably much more up your alley, but it was a great read, and I learned alot about TJ and the Louisiana Purchase, etc.
I want to talk with you about something so pls do email! it is same address as always
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Date: Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 22:35:54 (GMT)
From: Powerman
Email: None
To: Carol
Subject: The Way
Message:
What is really astounding isn't that Carol writes and believes this garbage, but that she writes it here, where it clearly isn't acceptable. It is also astounding that she totally changes the beliefs she expressed in her earlier posts but doesn't explain the change. On the other hand, it's quite consistent with the inanity she's demonstrated by yammering on and on about new-age ka-ka. At least it's entertaining when she makes a fool of herself.
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Date: Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 22:29:07 (GMT)
From: Scott T.
Email: None
To: Carol
Subject: The Flawed Master
Message:
Carol:

Re: I am now happiest to believe that Maharaji is alot of what I thought him to be and that he is still worthy of some
devotion, or at least gratitude, that many feel for him for revealing the Knowledge to them. I may not have gotten it any
other way than packaged the way it was in 1972....

Well, apart from the fact that carrying such a message so clearly misunderstood by the messenger deserves no special kudos or thanks there is also no real reason to believe that the presentation of the material, as a package carrying it's own special mystique redounding to a non-author, not only discredited the package itself... but has been a net loss for the human race (in terms of misunderstanding) even if the material is genuine.

In short, if a crook offers you a Rolex the bargain may end up costing you too much even if the instrument turns out to be a genuine Rolex. On the other hand, you can't completely discount the possibility that you have, in your possession, a counterfeit.

--Scott

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Date: Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 10:10:23 (GMT)
From: carol
Email: None
To: Scott T.
Subject: The Flawed Master
Message:
I don't discount the posibility of anything. I don't mind making a fool of myself because I am a fool, and I have been fooled many times, and I have fooled others, and I have an appreciation for foolishness!

I am not trying to change anyone, but I think it is great when anyone is open to change! I am so open to change that it appears to you here that I am fickle or traitorous or just plain stupid. Everyone has a right to review and change whatever direction they are going and whatever box they build for themselves, however comfortable it becomes. I don't want to be evaluated by any other person's measuring stick! Do You?

How much of your stand is based on what others would think of you and your consistency or integrity or lack of it if you decided to publish an alternate view than the one appropriate for this ex-premie site? Who is the judge. If no one wants to have a challenge to their ideas, they shouldn't come here, don't you think? Isn't group-think what you got away from when you left your old path behind, or did you step into another version of group-think. It is everywhere you know, in many forms!

Do you think I'm a premie or not? What is your definition? How can you define it for anyone else? Why do you think it is important? I thought this was a place for honest discourse when it wasn't happening anywhere else. That is why I came! I am grateful for all of you here and your challenges. You have all contributed something to the container called my mind and memory from which I am able to choose what I want to believe!!!

It looks here more as a club where you have to agree with the party line, which is pretty damn miserable a lot of the time! The group-think here is often prejudiced and condemning of anyone who honestly shares what has helped them or or who dares to say they still appreciate anything about what they personally got out of that time when they had given (sometimes hugely) of their own energy and love or money or service to what they believed or still appreciate it. I respect the need for many of you to avoid the danger of getting fooled again and to protect others from entrapment in a cult, but you can only really help yourself. And live your life perhaps making an example of yourself or even a fool of yourself for what you value as most dear and most true to your heart. Tread lightly, my friend. Please don't believe that I am trying to be something I'm not. I'm being who I really am. My true shape and nature is becoming more visible to myself. It really doesn't matter what anyone else sees, because they can only see through the filters of there own minds. Until we all see clearly that we are all one and there is really only one energy and its nature is love.
We are destined to repeat the same things over and over until we get it right.

If you always do what you've always done, you'll always get what you always got!

The fact is that I have changed quite rapidly, since the death of my old premie friend and my taking a step in the direction of my old premie frinds by attempting, and succeeding in some instances of renewing real communication about what is important to me and to them, without fear of disapproval. I dare you to talk to you old friends if you still have any feeling for them about all you belifs and changes.

I don't know you personally, but I would be happy to meet you and discuss anything, without attempts to win each other's approval or to argue or to disrespect our right to disagree. I want to promote, through my own thinking and relationships with others, a sense that there are some things we can agree about and others that are simply a matter of personal choice. I am free of cult-think or premie-think. If I hear it from any new people I meet I will challenge it or ask more questions We may find some agreement or give up on it and hopefully walk away without criticising or angry words or thoughts. This is not a project to change what others think. Please just celebrate with me your right to hold the reins of your own life!!!
I hope you feel free to change your mind many times throughout your life! I hope your bitterness comes to an end soon.

I do not need to be here anymore, and I doubt I can be any help to people that have closed their minds to change, or trying to see things from a different perspective.
Love and best wishes, Carol

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Date: Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 13:43:19 (GMT)
From: Christopher
Email: None
To: carol
Subject: The Flawed Logic
Message:
Carol, you say: 'The group-think here is often prejudiced and condemning of anyone who honestly shares what has helped them'

Personally, I find that posting on this Forum has (so far) helped me.

--

Your shifting allegiances don't inspire in me a readiness to trust, share, or open up with you, yet you seem to express a want for people do more of that sharing & opening up.

--

Last Monday (10th Jan), you started a thread entitled:
'LAST MESSAGE TIL APRIL 1ST' beginning: 'Beware: this a positive message with a wish and hope from me that it will mean something to you in your life.'

Like we should be wary of positive messages?

I'm beginning to think that All Fools' day HAS come early this year.

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Date: Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 13:18:02 (GMT)
From: Scott T.
Email: freewheeling@bigfoot.com
To: carol
Subject: The Flawed Master
Message:
Carol:

I didn't know that Miles had died. I know you've been keeping in touch with him. I recall some marvelous people in the Portland premie community, and have fond memories of the experience (as I'm sure Mike has).

How much of your stand is based on what others would think of you and your consistency or integrity or lack of it if you decided to publish an alternate view than the one appropriate for this ex-premie site?

I'm not all that concerned about temporal consistency. I change my mind all the time. I may be influenced by the group not to say certain things, on the margin... but if I thought there were the slightest chance that there were anything genuine about Maharaji I wouldn't hesitate to make the point. I can't even find a single instance where he's demonstrated any normal, let alone any extraordinary level of integrity. The claims that he's made demand some accountability, that I just don't see is there, or has ever been there.

All I'm concerned about is my own internal consistency. I have a conviction that we need to expect some level of behavior from leaders, because without such judgment we can expect with absolute certainty that we will be fooled. I am convinced that charismatic change is necessary to the human condition, and that if we don't find good charisma we will follow evil without recognizing it as such. The constraint this places on a leader is therefore a form of consideration for us, and the human condition we are in. A leader who fails to exhibit this consideration, through the integrity of his choices and the way he lives his life, has to be regarded as a kind of criminal, attempting to steal the genuine need humans have for a charismatic release. At some point, recognizing the dangers, you have to give yourself over to charismatic leadership and acknowledge the transcendance from rules that they demonstrate... but the formative stage is all important. You must not be able to look back honestly and see a weasel.

It is my belief that you may have given up on being able to tell the conterfeit from the real. But, what I'm saying is that you don't need to recognize the real, only the counterfeit. Remaining internally consistent, if you can't falsify then you have the option of acceptance.

I dare you to talk to you old friends if you still have any feeling for them about all you belifs and changes.

Except for Mike Armstrong and a few others my old friends don't want to talk to me. I'm more challenging to them than they are to me. It should be obvious from my comments above precisely why this is so. In case you haven't noticed there are a few ex-premies who don't especially want to talk to me either. They are content in their belief that humans are compretely sufficient unto themselves.

I find that I can't get around the constraints outlined above if I intend to remain optimistic about the future of humanity.

--Scott

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Date: Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 22:33:45 (GMT)
From: Scott T.
Email: None
To: Scott T.
Subject: Correction
Message:
Re: there is also no real reason to believe...

Make that 'not to believe'

-Scott

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Date: Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 20:24:52 (GMT)
From: Pat
Email: None
To: Carol
Subject: WHERE>>>
Message:
What state you live in? I think I know you. If you answer, if you are who i think you are, I would love to share something with you, I will call you.
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Date: Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 10:12:13 (GMT)
From: carol
Email: None
To: Pat
Subject: Oregon, see white pages nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 20:22:03 (GMT)
From: selene
Email: None
To: Carol
Subject: The Way
Message:
Hi Carol
You didn't 'raise my feathers'
But I do have to tell you.
I was VERY hurt by my years and years and years of involvement.
Missed some vital learning skills on coping with life, by hiding in the cult.
Going to events, videos, endless phone calls with my premie friends all
reinforced what I wanted to believe. Until it got hurtful enough and my inner sense told me GET OUT.

Perhaps you either left earlier or were involved with healthier people?

Anyway, that is what happened to me until 1998. Now I admit, I may have been even whackier w/o the so called support.
But I'll never know that.
That type of hypothetical thinking does me no good.
It hasn't been one bit easier since leaving M. But I believe now, the lessons I'm learning are mine. And not part of some group-think that leads me nowhere at best.
As for finding one's own spirituality, I gave that up too when I left M but am finding it again. And it's MINE this time. I don't have to feel like I owe M for any part of it.
It's not a problem to me that you have these feelings.
I just don't share them quite the way yo do, though I think at the core they are similar.

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Date: Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 10:18:08 (GMT)
From: carol
Email: None
To: selene
Subject: Yes it is Yours!!!
Message:
I will never be the way I was before. I am not subject to group think either! I will e-mail you. I've lots I still want to tell some of you who seem to respect me for who I am regardless of whether you totally agree with me or not! That is not what's important! Friends, I hope!
Carol

Gosh, I've stayed up another hour (plus) doing this and I am exhausted. I can't post here anymore unless I am welcome (and have more time. I'll read again in a few days!!

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Date: Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 22:48:27 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: carol
Subject: posting here
Message:
You can post anytime you want. Why not? Unless it's hurtful to you that is. I know of at least one person who was doing his damndest to get me outta here, and all it did was make me want to be here more.
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Date: Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 20:11:54 (GMT)
From: Christopher
Email: None
To: Carol
Subject: No way!!! ... ???
Message:




perhaps unfortunately??? …

This is VERY important to me, Carol -

I gave my support to a recent Journey posted by Carol Bruce.

Surely you CANNOT be the same Carol.

In your above thread you mention a post, - What post?

'I saved the following post from someone called Anon (I think) at the ex-premie site (then I did a few spelling corrections). This is someone who has obviously done a great deal of research and whose conclusions have (perhaps unfortunately) caused him/her to give up (at least temporarily) devotion to Maharaji. '

I'll repeat:


'This is someone who has obviously done a great deal of research and whose conclusions have (perhaps unfortunately) caused him/her to give up (at least temporarily) devotion to Maharaji. '

?????

PERHAPS UNFORTUNATELY …????

Surely you CANNOT be the same Carol (can you???) who posted the journey that contains the following:


'I only embraced the fact that I was an ex-premie about spring of 1998! …

I am soooo grateful and great-ful to be free of the bondage and repression to which I submitted myself while I believed the general premie party line. …

It really was, and I suppose still is... frequently Maharaji's message that what you seek is inside of YOU. I just don't understand why he continues to seem to want folks to look to him for the answer! If he really wanted to spread the Knowledge over the whole world, it could be like a chain letter and spread like wildfire if he told everyone who experienced it and valued it to share it directly with everyone they know who was interested!!

Remember when he said 'Try it you'll like it!' and later,'If you don't like it, leave it!' And still later,something like: 'If, you don't practice it, it will rot in you like a truck full of vegetables.' I know that isn't true because I've had ample time not to practice it and nothing has rotted!

It's true some of us liked it...except, unfortunately 'IT' comes as a package deal with some stuff most of us would rather not eat or smell! It's basically become a religion, including: heirarchies, aaaand lots of judgement of the quality and quantity of your practice of meditation, your service and devotion...

I still need to quiet my mind enough to hear an inner 'voice', but that is more easy for me to do now than it ever was when I 'practiced THE KNOWLEDGE'!!!

It was like shedding a skin, when I first was adjusting my perspective and 'becoming an ex-premie'. I suffered grief at the loss of my illusions. I am, in some ways, still a premie... if you define it generally as a 'lover'. All the love I ever felt came from inside me...it was mine. Others, including Maharaji, were like mirrors that bounced back the love that came out of me, and I often thought I got the love from them! I sometimes still feel some fondness for Maharaji, I just think he is a bit deluded and wrong about how he is going about his mission. I hate that he has caused pain to many people. I have no doubt that he believes in what he is doing. But then, I could be wrong; I once had no doubt he was Perfect master! Everyone is entitled to make their own mistakes, leaders and followers alike and to pay the consequences! …

Maharaji once said: this is not a religion, and I believed him, as did you and most everybody else who got involved. Who needs another religion when most of the wars of the world are fought in the name of someone somebody decided to call God! But all us premies made it one, especially him!

It was wonderful to believe in a Perfect Master, a divine human being who manifests physically and gives us all the love and power of creation! But the perfection and the love is, and always was in me (and YOU). It would have found its way into my awareness whether or not I got exposed to the big K from the big M!!! '


OWN UP!

Are you or are you not the Carol who posted the above 'Journey' excerpts?



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Date: Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 20:23:34 (GMT)
From: michael
Email: None
To: Christopher
Subject: No way!!! ... ???
Message:
Yes, that is the same Carol. I talked to her today. Don't get upset, please. Just allow her to work it out on her own. She really is a kind and wonderful person.
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Date: Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 20:30:21 (GMT)
From: christopher
Email: None
To: michael
Subject: No way!!! ... ???
Message:

christopher responded:
Kind of 'wonderfully' self-contradictory.

Upset? who ME?

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Date: Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 17:36:13 (GMT)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: michael
Subject: kind and wonderful
Message:
I think it is the kind & wonderful people who have the hardest time confronting the fact that their guru, who professed peace and love, is a con artist. Out of their kindness, they have a terrible time sitting in judgment of another person. It isn't hard for me to see that Carol is a great person. I just think when it comes to discussing the fine points of M, which after all is what happens here ont he forum, she is welcome, but her defense of M may not be!
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Date: Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 19:35:17 (GMT)
From: Scott T.
Email: None
To: Helen
Subject: kind and wonderful
Message:
Helen:

As a replacement for M this site just doesn't cut it. I can't think of very much in the real world that does. The sense of this void becomes acute with the loss of a friend or family member. In a way it's much simpler than logic. These messianic con men don't just fool the silly, stupid, or foolish...

But my ultimate replacement is that there must be something, perhaps only in the very distant future, that is more genuine than the Maharaji dream. And the way is not clear for that as long as M stands where he seems to be. You have to have enough of an inkling about this other reality that the void is not so huge. It also helps if you've survived a sociopath or two.

--Scott

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Date: Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 22:17:06 (GMT)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Scott T.
Subject: the terrible void
Message:
I think the longing for a replacement to the void is what made us vulnerable to M in the first place. Of course we were young and naive, and bought the idea of a unifying philosophy that had the answers to everything. But the void is real, our animal-ness, our mortality is real. We have to face it. Our wishing and hoping it were not so doesn't make it any different, deosn't make the human condition go away.

It doesn't mean that I am not thankful for every moment I have and for every blessing in my life. I think there probably is something but I don't know what to call it. There is something in prayer and calling out for strength, there is something incredibly intricate in the human mind and soul. It's what makes it so terrible to us that one day-poof-we'll be gone, and/or our loved ones will be gone. The thing I cherish now is that I am allowed to engage in an inquiry abotu God, whether God exists or not, what God is, etc. I have no use for a God that doesn't allow for doubt, ie the Maharaji God who told us 'Never leave room for doubt in your mind.'

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Date: Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 20:01:06 (GMT)
From: Runamok
Email: None
To: Carol
Subject: The Way
Message:
If someone gives me a 'glass of water', I thank them and it's over. If M showed me some techniques (because using David Lane as a reference, M did not 'reveal' anything), I can offer a slightly bigger thanks for what is, in a manner of speaking, a big glass of water.

But since Rawatt DID offer his claim to establish peace on earth and since he DID often intimate his own identity as being equivalent to God, I gladly offer the accusation of con or fraud.

The accusation is a lot bigger than the thanks. He conned a lot of people and there are many heartbreaking stories to be told about him and his self-aggrandizing mission. I have a limited amount of feeling for him as a person. There are just too many smaller people who sufferred grievously in his mission. And many of those people are people who did actually get me glasses of water or meal or put me up in their apartments while i was festival hopping.

Rawatt can rot. What about all the actual glasses of water? What about all the people who actually contributed to our survival in those times. Why give all the credit to one man who clearly has been shown to have fraudulently claimed to initiate through grace.

So many were hurt.

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Date: Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 23:13:03 (GMT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: Runamok
Subject: well said Run (nt)
Message:
afa
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Date: Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 19:53:13 (GMT)
From: Des Perado
Email: I think you know already
To: Carol, throw another BBQ
Subject: The Way
Message:
I Love the King James version. Dad read from it every night at the family prayer and bible worship after dinner. What about Matthew 28.6?

Des hanging for another surf Perado

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Date: Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 20:01:10 (GMT)
From: Des Perado
Email: see above
To: Des Perado
Subject: What are you doing tomorrow
Message:

Des Perado responded:
Just a curios enquiry from an interested new potential friend.

Still waiting for the address of the location of your 'knees up' (Read Party)

Love and platonic XXXX

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Date: Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 20:17:16 (GMT)
From: Christopher
Email: None
To: Des Perado
Subject: What are you doing tomorrow
Message:
You signed a post below as:

'Des, who needs all the friends he can get, Perado'

Is that why you're talking to yourself?

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Date: Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 18:36:37 (GMT)
From: Christopher
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: The Maha in the modern world
Message:
As an old ex-premie, I was fascinated to read some of the Maha's more recent offerings.

Strange angle on politics, I thought.

Jean-Michel has the low-down.

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Date: Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 22:03:48 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Christopher
Subject: The Maha is usually edited
Message:
and you don't find that sort of stuff on the videos or publications, except when somebody goofed!

I've heard him say much more astounding stuff in the 90s (like in that famous participation meeting in Mauritius 1996), and I know there are some 'unofficial' recordings. We'll get them sooner or later. Sorry¨Prempal, you can't do anything about it, even a million $ won't be enough ....... well, maybe two ? There are also some films hidden somewhere ....... oh, They're going to be much more expensive ......

No doubt the poor Indian magazine's editor has been fired, or some other responsible 'executed'. Poor guys.

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Date: Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 17:18:03 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Interesting article by E Fromm
Message:
Here's the link to a new article on my website:

On Mysticism and Religion, by Erich Fromm.

In the Near East the concept of the ONE was expressed in the symbol of God the supreme king. This was a historical necessity because in small states ruled by oriental despots, who claimed for themselves divine power, the concept of the highest principle, of the ONE, had to be formulated in the symbol of the supreme king, the 'King of Kings'. To be sure, this God was different from all idols: he had no name (3) and no image was permitted - or possible - to make of him. But inspite of these precautions the symbol of God the king lent itself to the danger of the anthropomorphisation and idolization of the concept of God. This danger was all the greater as the concept of God was cultivated by the Church in the European Middle Ages whose social structure was also dominated by the presence of emperors, Popes and feudal lords who were supreme figures. Thus the symbol 'God' standing for the ONE and the supreme value, deteriorated to an imagined reality of a King of Kings who ruled the rulers and their subjects from his supreme throne in heaven.

While this idolization of God dominated the concepts of the masses and of those leaders who thought like the masses, there were always thinkers and groups (usually revolutionary ones) who wanted to cleanse the pure concept of the ONE from the 'unclean', authoritarian and idolizing admixtures which had covered and distorted it. The history of Judaism and Christianity can be characterized as the continuing effort of restoring the concept of God to its original meaning against the process of the idolization.

This effort was made not only through mystical thinking, as it was just described, .....

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Date: Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 21:53:37 (GMT)
From: Shifting
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Interesting article by E Fromm
Message:
AHA! Magical thinking. I wish I'd read it in 1975. Buaaaaaa ;-)
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Date: Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 18:35:48 (GMT)
From: Shifting
Email: None
To: PREMIES: READ IT!
Subject: Interesting article by E Fromm
Message:
I dare you to read it. The article presents the package mahaha sells in a different way of what you have come to accept. There are always two sides to a coin. Or maybe I should have said con?
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Date: Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 04:11:30 (GMT)
From: Your guess for what
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: a 'totally unique event' is.
Message:
That would be what?
Where he doesnt speak?
Where he says the truth?
Where he invites the camera into his home? It does say 'he spent a
lot of time and money' on this, well, he spent a lot of money on
his homes and jets.
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Date: Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 14:51:03 (GMT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Your guess for what
Subject: Spent alot of money.....
Message:
Yeah, he spent alot of PREMIE money on this..... without even consulting them, I bet. Hey, even a pastor or priest has to ask permission to spend church funds for something. Does M ask? Yeah.... right..... he's gawd, remember!

I vote for 'a totally unique event' that consists of M telling the truth about himself. It wouldn't be 'just so beautiful,' that's for sure!

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Date: Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 07:19:13 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Mike
Subject: No no no, you're all wrong
Message:
Prem promised to donate the $ 200,000, and hopefuly $ 300,000 profit he's going to make tomorrow for the people in Orissa who've lost everything in the last hurricane.

That's going to be the surprise. And premies are invited to go there and help. That will be real service for humanity. Everything will be organized by Indian DUO, which still exists, and is now based in Santyogashram.

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Date: Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 07:25:23 (GMT)
From: shifting
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: No no no, you're all wrong
Message:
you are kidding, right?
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Date: Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 09:26:36 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: shifting
Subject: Why not?
Message:
This was just a smalll fiction.

What could Rawat possibly do with the millions of $ he's going to get? Buy a 3rd and even bigger yacht? Have a new residence somewhere Interpol and IRS won't be able to catch him? Just trying to imagine ...

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Date: Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 16:52:33 (GMT)
From: Shifting
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: OH! It was fiction?
Message:
hahahaha....I was beginning to feel surprised. My ex-husband got one of his old... Oh my, I better shut up or 'they' may get to know who I am. Have you given your email anywhere? I recently did something funny that I would like to share with you in private. Thanks for all your posts. Keep up your good work!
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Date: Sun, Jan 16, 2000 at 00:38:35 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: jmkahn@club-internet.fr
To: Shifting
Subject: here's my email
Message:
Please don't stuff my mail box ..........

I have a huge HD, no problem!

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Date: Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 04:09:06 (GMT)
From: Ebay Guru alert
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: let's see what this sells for
Message:
Try this link

first prize to whoever can name all the security dudes

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Date: Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 04:13:57 (GMT)
From: Heading out
Email: None
To: Ebay Guru alert
Subject: for some Ice Cream
Message:
Saphlanand is one?
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Date: Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 04:09:00 (GMT)
From: la-ex
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: claudia's book/bad poetry
Message:
I have been recently reading some of the old archives and have come across some interesting stuff-
I have 2 questions-
1)JW-do you have that book of old poems by m, and could you put it on the site? Some of your quotes and comments were hysterical. I can't believe even someone as deluded as m would have the nerve to put something out like that...
2)Is claudia alive or dead? Did she ever publish the kiss and tell book? I heard that she hated m and was writing a book called 'From riches to rags' or something like that.Did she ever sue m? And what did breech of contract mean?(or something like that)
PS-does anyone have any favorite posts from old archives?
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Date: Thurs, Jan 13, 2000 at 20:55:53 (GMT)
From: Christopher
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Cainer defects
Message:
From the Guardian, Thursday January 13, 2000:

The American writer Thornton Wilder once observed that 'the future is the most expensive luxury in the world'. Executives at the Daily Mail discovered this to their cost last week when their star astrologer, Jonathan Cainer, announced that he is turning down their £1 million a year and defecting to the Express.
[Guardian Unlimited © Guardian Newspapers Limited 2000]

Time for another push on the Jagdeo story, anyone?

BTW, for some guidelines on good argument, try this Balony Detection Kit

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Date: Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 15:44:11 (GMT)
From: Scott T.
Email: None
To: Christopher
Subject: Cainer defects
Message:
Christopher:

A couple of points. The Carl was not infallible.

Re: Misunderstanding the nature of statistics (President Eisenhower expressing astonishment and alarm on discovering that fully half of all Americans have below average intelligence!).

It is necessarily true that half of all Americans must be below the median intelligence, since that's the definition of 'median.' It is not necessarily true that half of all Americans are below the mean (average) intelligence. If the distribution is not 'normal' or at least symmetrical then, in fact, it won't be true.

Both mean and median are measures of typicality, but the median is usually considered more 'robust.'

His rendition of the falsification test, equating it to a reliability test, is also inaccurate. The ability to reproduce results is a test of reliability. The ability to falsify is a condition of whether an hypothesis is acceptable, not as a truth, but as an hypothesis. Failure to falsify is a conditional acceptance of the hypothesis as true. Many important hypothesis are not verifiable, though they must all be falsifiable.

--Scott

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Date: Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 16:48:29 (GMT)
From: Christopher
Email: None
To: Scott T.
Subject: Cainer defects
Message:
Scott,

Hope you found the other link to Phillip E. Johnson's article as well (see post below).

This interested me:

'When good teachers are teaching more advanced problems in mathematics, or in other subjects, they love a student who will argue that the textbook answer isn’t correct. The reason isn’t so much that the textbook answer might be wrong, although that always is a possibility.

The real reason is that people learn the truth best if they fully understand the objections to the truth. If I believe in evolution (or anything else) only because 'Teacher says so,' you could say I don’t really believe in evolution. What I believe in is obedience to authority, and in letting 'Teacher' do my thinking for me.

A democratic education aims to produce citizens who can think for themselves. Carl Sagan would have agreed emphatically, and he would have said that unquestioning acceptance of the dictates of authority is the opposite of the kind of skeptical thinking science education ought to try to foster - except, of course, when it comes to evolutionary naturalism.'

.............

Hoist by his own petard, eh?

BTW, what would you say about the following reasoning? - that
'the premies' denial that they are in a cult is a classic symptom of cultist thinking'.

Not 100% sure if this would be entirely fair, even though it seems to be self-evident.

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Date: Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 04:53:28 (GMT)
From: mimi
Email: None
To: Christopher
Subject: Cainer defects=Great Link
Message:
Logic helps, premies...Great link chris!
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Date: Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 18:12:16 (GMT)
From: Christopher
Email: None
To: mimi
Subject: ... and there's more
Message:
You like that? ...

There's more!

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Date: Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 18:40:24 (GMT)
From: Way
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Jim, if you are lurking,
Message:
Jim, if you are lurking, please read Christopher's 'there's more' link.

Christopher, thanks for the link.

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Date: Thurs, Jan 13, 2000 at 16:42:41 (GMT)
From: RE Administrator
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: 'Recent Exes' Forum
Message:
The Recent Exes forum was initially created as a forum for recent ex-premies. It has expanded to include ex-premies working out issues concerning their involvement with Maharaji, or any ex-premie who would like to post about these issues in a private environment. The Recent Exes forum is password-protected and flame-free. Access to the forum is available only with the approval of current forum members.

If you want more information about this forum, or would like to participate, please e-mail the forum administrator at recentexes@yahoo.com. It's helpful to include information about yourself and screennames.

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Date: Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 02:02:33 (GMT)
From: General Concensus
Email: fourstars@generalconcensus.com
To: RE Administrator
Subject: 'Recent Exes' Forum
Message:

Well,I called that number and Miss Katie answered, even though the administrator of this 'Recent Exes' Forum is the notorious Runamok who has openly and repeatedly broken confidences by posting private email correspondences, posting about telephone conversations, and most recently on Anything Goes, threatening Roger with some sort of confidential disclosure. Yeah, I'd think twice about posting anything in confidence over there. And why is Katie answering the email sent to the administrator of the recent ex forum when the admin is Runamok?
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Date: Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 16:14:11 (GMT)
From: Runamok
Email: None
To: private opinion
Subject: 'Recent Exes' Forum
Message:
I posted that to Roger/Barney in a humorous spirit, in spite of your attempts to confuse the issue.

We (R & R) were managing to do our chaotic dialogue interface away from this forum. It's cleaner that way.

But it seems keeping it clean wouldn't interest you.

I don't have Matt Drudge's website handy, but perhaps he would be interested in your various unsubstatiated allegations.

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Date: Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 16:45:06 (GMT)
From: Oh I get it...
Email: fourstars@generalconcensus.com
To: Runamok
Subject: It's all a joke.
Message:
Runamok wasn't making any threads to reveal confidences. Oh no, it was all a joke. Just kidding, right Funboy?

Just kidding like the emails you posted.

Just kidding like the telephone conversations you posted.

Hey, and he'll be just kidding when he divuylges YOUR confidences to.

But what the heck, it's all in good fun. You CAN trust Funamok, trust me on this...

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Date: Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 02:32:31 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: General Concensus
Subject: 'Recent Exes' Forum
Message:
You wrote:
Yeah, I'd think twice about posting anything in confidence over there. And why is Katie answering the email sent to the administrator of the recent ex forum when the admin is Runamok?

I don't know who or what you are, but I answered that e-mail because the text was posted on the RE forum asking for suggestions. I told the FA's I'd help them out. And, yes, everything that is revealed on that forum STAYS on that forum, no matter how much you - whoever you are - dislike that. What's your problem, anyway?

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Date: Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 03:40:11 (GMT)
From: General Concensus
Email: fourstars@generalconcensus.com
To: Katie
Subject: 'Recent Exes' Forum
Message:

General Concensus responded:
Runamok posted my PRIVATE email to him on the 'confidential' recent ex forum? After I told him it was confidential? So much for trusting Runamok to keep a confidence.

Sure, everything revealed on the forum stays confidential, well, with a few exceptions like this one, though.

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Date: Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 02:10:47 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: General Concensus
Subject: 'Recent Exes' Forum
Message:
oh I don't know, perhaps because no matter what Runamok did or answered you would attack him?
I'm administering it too.
So go have it at me now.
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Date: Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 02:58:00 (GMT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: 'Recent Exes' Forum
Message:
I see this handle and some other ones on AG and I think I know who they are or at least have a guess but it is this type of name changing that makes me feel unsafe posting.
Robyn
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Date: Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 03:56:58 (GMT)
From: This could be you...
Email: dontTrustRunamok@weasel.com
To: all
Subject: 'Recent Exes' Forum
Message:
This quoted message was from Runamok to Roger on 'Anything Goes.' The *favor* to which Runamok so sleazily refers concerns confidentiality. Yes, don't cross Runamok or he'll use your own private, confidential words against you.

Runamok writing:

Actually, you did post about BG reminding you of M'rage in the ancient days of F3. Remember those? You were such a nice, young neurotic. But I'll do what you ask as a *favor* but keep it in mind that's what it is the next time you feel a need to say 'fuck you' to anyone but an actual sex partner. Remember those?

And don't forget, I'm being nice by posting way down here where no one looks except you and by speaking in code.

Don't forget, Mr. Fancy Hotmetalboy.

Now isn't that nice? Think you can trust Runamok with private confidential information about yourself ??? Think Again.

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Date: Thurs, Jan 13, 2000 at 04:59:16 (GMT)
From: Nirvana
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Oct. 1990 Challenger Project
Message:
I just located an interesting brochure containing an urgent request for cash contributions so that Maharaji could trade up his Lear 55 to get a Canadian Challenger 601. I'm not sure what happened with this deal. Did it go through? Wasn't it very shortly after or something that he wanted and got his Gulfstream, the same kind of jet Bill Gates has?

What I found to be interesting in this plea for money is how they appear to be going for the big money. It would appear that they are aiming for the minium $100, $500, $1000 from middle age hippies that might have 9 to 5 jobs and a disposable income. In the brochure they are hoping or suggesting ridiculous sums like $5k, 10k, 25k, 50k, and $100k! So they lay out the details of the transaction and use words like 'total investment in the aircraft', 'short term loans', 'immediate funds', etc. to invite the contributor to be a participant in an International High Finance deal.

There are also a number of scare tactics used to let the reader believe that Maharaji's life is endangered flying around, no not flying, but really pushing this beat up rickety Lear jet way beyond what even South American pilots would consider to be dangerous.

And can you believe that the damn letter ends with pleas for more money for ongoing and future projects? Let's see now, the next future project? Hmmm, was that the total knockdown remodel of the Malibu Marble Palace? Or Amaroo or that awful Tierra Del Fuego investment?

Warning: This is long. Afterwards there will be a test. There are two specific items within the text that do not belong. You need to find what does not belong.

Hint: one sentence and one or two words.
Hint: 'Challenger will allow Maharaji the freedom to respond spontaneously to the needs of people on every continent' is not the phony statement.

Thursday, October 4, 1990

Every so often a project is announced that requires an immediate response. As many of you may know, Maharaji has recently been speaking about the need for a longer range and slightly larger aircraft. He explained that as much as he loves the Lear 55, to meet the demands of his expanding work, he has been pushing its capabilities beyond the bounds of safety and prudence. The resulting search to find a safer, longer range, and economically efficient aircraft turned up the Canadian-made Challanger 601 as the only suitable alternative. A buyer was also found for the Lear who has offered more than the total investment in the aircraft.

The response to initial presentations around the world about acquiring a Challenger has been encouraging. In only a few weeks, almost $3 million from around the world has been pledged of the approximately $7.8 million needed after the sale of the Lear.

Then last Sunday, in a meeting about this project, Maharaji announced that only one aircraft is presently available which is equipped to meet the requirements for international travel, and that if secured immediately, it could be purchased at a very favorable prices. To meet the closing date on this plane, contributions must be in hand, in California, not later than Monday, October 15th (preferably by Friday, October 12th). The question was, could we do it? That same day an additional $500,000 was pledged by phone and in writing by people across the country who understood the importance and urgency of acquiring this particular aircraft at this time.

The purpose of this announcement is to let everyone interested know about the project and to invite you to participate in its success.

Extensive research has shown that the need for a larger and more capable aircraft is real. In spite of the Lear 55's impeccable performance record over the 630,000 miles flown over the last four years, (equivalent to 25 times around the world), experts advise that it is simply no longer adequate for the expanding and extensive international travel Maharaji is now doing, particularly the very long Pacific legs. Marharaji explained that in the Lear, to fly from Los Angeles to New Delhi, West to East, it takes a total of seven days including five stops, one of which is an overnight in Saudi Arabia. And Maharaji has been very clear on his intense dislike and distrust of Arabs or towelheads as he jokingly refers to them in a loving way, of course. In the Challenger he could fly the longer Pacific stretches with only one overnight stop, and arrive in New Delhi in two days, while avoiding the dangerous and restricted areas of the Middle East. The Challenger will allow Maharaji the freedom to respond spontaneously to the needs of people on every continent with maximum safety and efficiency while minimizing the inevitable strain of over 200 days per year of international travel. Its larger capacity affords more comfort for the pilot on long flights and provides enough additional seating for instructors and girlfriends who now participate with Maharaji in conducting Knowledge Sessions world-wide.

For anyone interested, the time to participate in this project is now. An additional $4.3 million is needed by Monday, October 15th to complete the transaction. Gifts of all sizes are very much needed and greatly appreciated. For this project to succeed gifts of $5,000, $10,000, $25,000, $50,000 and $100,000 will also be needed. We are happy to report that a number of such gifts have already been received, along with hundreds of others of all sizes. Gifts to date from $10 to $120,000.

Many individual contributors have already gone to considerable lengths to enable this project to proceed. some have taken out personal loans in order to make a more significant cash contribution. now. Others have contributed real estate, stocks, and other assets. some have also committed substantial short term loans to provide immediate funds until all contributions have been received as well as long term loans, should they become necessary.

Please enclose the Challenger Pledge Card with whatever contribution or pledge you can make at this time. Contributions that can only be sent after October 15th are still important and should be pledged now on the card.

As important and urgent as this project is, it is not the only one on the horizon. Besides the ongoing needs of his work, Maharaji has been speaking about his vision for International Learning Centers in different parts of the world where he could meet with people with Knowledge and people preparing to receive Knowledge. It is clear that the opportunity to support his work is ongoing and expanding. given the enthusiastic global response to this project, it is also clear that people's love and valuing of Maharaji's gift is also expanding.

We look forward to your earliest possible response.

Yours sincerely,

William N. Wishard
President, Elan Vital

For the Challenger Project

David H. Coyne - Connecticut
Prentiss S. Uchida - Florida
W. Timothy Gallwey - Malibu
Dena Eakles - Chicago

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Date: Thurs, Jan 13, 2000 at 19:08:40 (GMT)
From: JW
Email: None
To: Nirvana
Subject: Oct. 1990 Challenger Project
Message:
Amazing. Well, since 1990, it doesn't appear that the investment has paid off too well. He has dwindling followers in the West, but stays here anyway because he has gotten used to the luxury, as opposed to living in India where the vast majority of his 'devotees' are, thus requiring private aircraft.

It is the height or arrogance for him to require his own, private jet for transportation. It's also environmentally irresponsible and wasteful for one person to require and consume such resources, with the resulting pollution and damage to the environment it causes.

Other interesting comments:

Marharaji explained that in the Lear, to fly from Los Angeles to New Delhi, West to East, it takes a total of seven days including five stops, one of which is an overnight in Saudi Arabia

Yes, well, he could fly first class on a commerical airliner and be in New Delhi in 24 hours. Of course, this would require the Lord of the Universe to have to actually associate with other human beings who might not be fawning all over him. He does seem a little freaked out about Saudi Arabia, as well as ever being out of his controlled environment. They don't like cult leaders in Saudi Arabia too much, that's true.

Many individual contributors have already gone to considerable lengths to enable this project to proceed. some have taken out personal loans in order to make a more significant cash contribution. now. Others have contributed real estate, stocks, and other assets. some have also committed substantial short term loans to provide immediate funds until all contributions have been received as well as long term loans, should they become necessary.d

Some things never change. When we were raising money for that erstwhile Boeing 707 that Maharaji wanted so badly 20 years ago, we told the premies to go into hock if necessary for the Lord to get what he wanted. Same thing here. Let's face it, Maharaji is just INTO planes. He likes them like a child likes toys and he wants a bigger, and niftier one for his own pleasure and enjoyment. 'Spreading this knowledge' is just a convenient excuse to sell to the gullible premies. It's just so transparent, I'm amazed there are premies who don't see it.

I mean, look at what's happened. All Maharaji is about is obtaining wealth for himself. He has to play the game of 'master' to keep that going. As I have said many times, you can tell where he's at from the results, namely, that he has been a miserable failure at 'spreading knowledge' to the world, but he's been fantastically successful at accumulating wealth and expensive toys and theme park palacial homes for himself. I think it's clear what his priorities are.

I mean, look; Supposedly Shri Hans was willing to walk hundreds of miles to reveal knowledge to people. Has M EVER sacrificed ANYTHING of his fabulous wealth to do the same? Don't make me laugh!

Names at the end as part of the Challenger Project are interesting, all premies from the 70s. I recall Bill Wishard.

David H. Coyne was a premie who inherited a shit load of money in the early 70s. I remember he bought Maharaji a Rolls Royce. Being rich, he has been a PAM for many years.

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Date: Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 03:53:07 (GMT)
From: link
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: Oct. 1990 Challenger Project
Message:
Too bad for David, he was drained of his inheritance and
buttered up with close seats and whatever to keep him around
until he runs out of money then lets see how much he is
kept around as a pam.
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Date: Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 04:07:09 (GMT)
From: Eugenesis
Email: None
To: link
Subject: Oct. 1990 Challenger Project
Message:
Did EV really drain this guy?
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Date: Thurs, Jan 13, 2000 at 17:29:20 (GMT)
From: Gregg
Email: None
To: Nirvana
Subject: Towelheads and Girlfriends: nt
Message:
text
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Date: Thurs, Jan 13, 2000 at 05:10:05 (GMT)
From: mimi
Email: None
To: Nirvana
Subject: Oct. 1990 Challenger Project
Message:
Do you think that if in the future he doesn't need his plane any more he will sell it and give the premies back the money they contributed to but it? Nhaaa...Maybe not... Now is HIS plane, right? Daddy's plane?
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Date: Thurs, Jan 13, 2000 at 05:55:14 (GMT)
From: I'm a Negative Creep
Email: Nirvana
To: mimi
Subject: Hello, little girl
Message:
This is out of our range,
This is out of our range,
This is out of our range.
Oh!
This is getting to be,
This is getting to be,
This is getting to be drone.

I`m a negative creep,
I`m a negative creep,
I`m a negative creep
And I`m stoned.

I`m a negative creep
I`m a negative creep
I`m a negative creep
Moan.

Daddy`s little girl ain`t a girl no more.
Yeah!

Daddy`s little girl ain`t a girl no more.(Repeat to fade)

Now, seriously little mimi, you know that you shouldn't talk to strangers on the Internet, don't you?

Is your mommy or daddy there with you?

What's your daddy's name, mimi?
Is he a nice daddy?
Is your daddy a little fat?
Short?
mimi, does your daddy wear a wig or what?
Does your daddy ever take you for rides in his airplane?
What does your daddy do for a living, mimi?
Does daddy go to work in the morning and come back at night like Ward Cleaver?

I sure hope that you can help me with these questions, mimi.

Tell you what, mimi, if you're a good girl and get me the answers to all these questions and maybe a few more I'll take you to Fun-Land there at the Santa Monica Pier and you can take a ride in Mr. BumbleBee. It would almost be like being in your Daddy's airplane, but you would just be going around in circles like us premies did for years. Would you like that? And I can bring some of my friends like Mr. Harry who talks just like Crocodile Dundee. Doesn't that sound fun?

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Date: Thurs, Jan 13, 2000 at 06:00:15 (GMT)
From: mimi
Email: None
To: nirvana
Subject: Hello, little girl
Message:
I was been sarcastic, BM was called daddy on the 70's.
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Date: Thurs, Jan 13, 2000 at 06:15:58 (GMT)
From: Nirvana
Email: All Apologies
To: mimi
Subject: Nevermind
Message:
mimi, I'm sorry! I thought you were maybe being one of M's daughters, maybe one we didn't know about. Oh, we could have gone somewhere with that one! Nevermind!

I hate myself and want to die!

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Date: Thurs, Jan 13, 2000 at 02:24:07 (GMT)
From: ME
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: PICTURES OF GOD
Message:
Today I came acroos a Ev magazine, Volume 3 Issue 3, Autum of 1979. On the second page , on very big fonts SAYS:

PICTURES OF GOD, AND IN THE OPPOSITE SIDE IS A PICTURE OF m.

I found a box full of old, old stuff. Amazing how all was then....Well, it's almost the same today with a different presentation.

Has anybody presented to this forum Arti? I have it.

me

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Date: Thurs, Jan 13, 2000 at 22:41:30 (GMT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: ME
Subject: I Wonder.......
Message:
ME: Your post got me thinking a bit. I wonder if M still does pranam to the statue of his father (sri hans) that the premies gave him some years back.

Does he still believe his father was god incarnate?

Does he still pay proper respect (as we were all taught by his example) to the memory of his divine dad?

If the answer to the above is 'yes,' then why no hans jayanti with all of the ornate foo-foo with krishna crowns and all of that?

Any feedback on this? I really don't know if it continues or not, but if it doesn't I would certainly take it as weird if I were a premie! I mean, if he doesn't respect his 'own' gmj, why should anyone respect m? Oh yeah, I forgot, the 'past' didn't happen and no one worshipped anyone...... silly me! :-)

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Date: Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 19:33:33 (GMT)
From: Scott T.
Email: freewheeling@bigfoot.com
To: Mike
Subject: I Wonder.......
Message:
Mike:

Re: Does he still pay proper respect (as we were all taught by his example) to the memory of his divine dad? / If the answer to the above is 'yes,' then why no hans jayanti with all of the ornate foo-foo with krishna crowns and all of that?

Any feedback on this?

The New Dance of Krishna

--Scott

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Date: Tues, Jan 18, 2000 at 14:43:43 (GMT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Scott T.
Subject: BWAH HA HA HA HA HA HA
Message:
It's been a couple of days since I last checked-in...... GOOD ONE, SCOTT! :-)
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Date: Thurs, Jan 13, 2000 at 17:20:07 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: ME
Subject: Lots of old stuff online here!
Message:
Including Arti, pictures of the pudgy greasy toes, and plenty of stuff you don't have any idea of :

The DLM-EV Papers

Learn where Prempal Rawat is coming from, and don't be an ignorant anymore !

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Date: Thurs, Jan 13, 2000 at 15:44:51 (GMT)
From: Shifting
Email: None
To: ME
Subject: PICTURES OF GOD
Message:
[...I think I am going to puke. This reminds me of how I got trapped in the cult. The Lord is in this world, he is here... Maharaji lied to me. He is not a kid anymore. He needs to give an explanation and an appology. He is no friend... He is an egotistic, power hungry, very false Indian Guru. He is no god!]

Can you put that page in the forum?

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Date: Thurs, Jan 13, 2000 at 00:48:23 (GMT)
From: john
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: anything goes
Message:
lostmy link to this forum anybody help me?
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Date: Thurs, Jan 13, 2000 at 01:42:13 (GMT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: david@xyzx.freeserve.co.uk
To: john
Subject: Here's the link and more!
Message:
First, here's the link to The ANYTHING GOES forum.

If you want a page of links to all the ex-premie sites, then you need Not Maharaji's mixed bag, which is a good page to bookmark since it has easy to read, colourful links to all these places you hear people talking about but might wonder where they are.

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Date: Thurs, Jan 13, 2000 at 01:46:53 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: Here's the link and more!
Message:
Hi Sir Dave
Just emailed you. When you can answer me. 'only if you want to'
:)
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Date: Thurs, Jan 13, 2000 at 00:23:12 (GMT)
From: corvuscorax
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Why am i working night shift w
Message:
I was looking for the page that contained the link to the Indian background of the various gu-ru's etc.

If anyone has that link, please post. I have a friend that needs some history/background, to help him realize how that caste system and it's way of earning a good living works.

Night shift crewmember,
Jamie
---------------------

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Date: Wed, Jan 12, 2000 at 19:28:51 (GMT)
From: JW
Email: Joger02@aol.com
To: Everyone
Subject: Question Re Finances and Taxes
Message:
This discussion started down below with J-M's comments about how the money raised from the premies paying for the satellite feed might be laundered back to Maharaji personally. Very interesting and a true area for further research. But I have a couple of more basic questions that some of you more recent ex-premies might be able to answer.

1. Do premies make donations directly to Elan Vital? I have heard that Elan Vital prefers that you give a credit card number and they charge your account each month, and perhaps premies make donations by check as well. If so, do the premies deduct that from their income taxes (in the USA) as a charitable donation and does Elan Vital say you can do that? Also, does Elan Vital send premies a list of donations they made the previous year for tax purposes, obviously implying that the donations are tax deductible?

2. Do premies still send checks to a post office box in Malibu or to another address as direct financial 'gifts' to Maharaji personally? I know this was the practice in the past. Does Elan Vital, or anyone connected with Elan Vital, ever ask premies to do this, either orally or in writing? That also was done in the past. How do the premies know they are supposed to do this? Do the premies deduct these donations from their income taxes? Do premies get any kind of 'thank you' from Maharaji for doing this, and/or does it include a summary of what was donated?

3. When there were 'special' fundraisers as there have been in the past for a plane, for Amaroo, for a residence or something, how was that communicated to the premies? Did PAMs ('People Around Maharaji' like David Smith, Yoram Weiss, Booth Dyess, etc. do this?) Were they doing it under the auspices of Elan Vital, or some other organization? Who paid their travelling expenses, etc., if they traveled around raising funds? Were only selected premies allowed to attend these fundraising meetings and how was that decided? Was there any discussion about the deductibility of these donations?

4. Do any of you recent exes have written stuff on this, really anything having to do with donations, finances, etc.? I would LOVE to see it. I would be happy to copy it and send it back to you. Anything having to do with the finances of and donations to, and fundraising for, Maharaji, Elan Vital, Visions, or anything connection with M, locally, nationally or internationally would be of interest. Please email me if you would rather not post the information directly. Thanks.

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Date: Thurs, Jan 13, 2000 at 04:04:24 (GMT)
From: Nirvana
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: Here's what I got
Message:
This is from calendar year 1997. Things may be different today.

Elan Vital, Inc.
---------------------------
Contribution(s) Acknowledgement

This acknowledges receipt of your cash contribution(s) totaling $xxxx.xx for the calendar year 1997. Except for intangible benefits described in the Internal Revenue Code Section 170(f)(B), we have not provided you with any goods or services in exchange for your contribution(s). Please retain this document for your records. It may be required for your charitable income tax deduction. Thank you for your generosity.

Contributor & Address
Kurdt Cobain
1256 Lake Washington Blvd.
Seattle, Washington 98123

And it is signed by Linda S. Gross, President

------------------------------

The Acknowledgement is sent out near the beginning of every year and often there is a card supposedly from Maharaji and he says his little bit and in the card is a nice little 3x5 photo of his goofship.

And I have several of these exact forms going back to at least 1995.

At all of the participation meetings I attended the preferred method of contribution is to set up Automatic Bank Withdrawal. Next is the Credit Card Contribution, Post Dated Checks that you send enmass to EV and they promise not to cash them until the date on the check, and the least preferred, my plan, was a pledged monthly amount and they sent me preaddressed envelopes with the long standard P.O. Box 6130, Malibu, CA 90264. I believe that P.O. Box 6110 at one time was Maharaji's box for direct contributions.

Eureka! Will you look at this one?

I just found a brochure from the 1989 Festival of Knowledge 8, 9,10 December in Brussels at the Parc Des Expositions. The picture of Maharaji on the inner left page has M wearing a tan suit jacket with very wide lapels, white shirt, a not too wide red tie with little gold motifs, a matching hankerchief in his breast pocket. Standard Maharaji, but...he looks just like William Shatner on a bad hair day.

I should have Courtney go to Kinko's and get all this stuff scanned.

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Date: Thurs, Jan 13, 2000 at 06:37:43 (GMT)
From: CD
Email: None
To: Nirvana
Subject: Here's what I got
Message:
>I just found a brochure from the 1989 Festival of Knowledge 8, 9,10 December in Brussels at the Parc Des Expositions.

I got suckered into going to Brussels and had a great time.

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Date: Thurs, Jan 13, 2000 at 22:50:28 (GMT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: CD
Subject: CD, why????
Message:
CD: Your attempts at obfuscation are incredible. Here is a post concerning the incessant requests for money (oh, excuse me.... gratitude) and all you can comment on is how you had a good time in Brussels.

Don't these continous requests for money bother you just a little bit? How about the fact that they want you to give them permission to withdraw funds from your personal accounts without asking each and every time? Don't you find this just a bit too easy? I wouldn't trust them with my account numbers under any circumstances. DO you think that they'll be sorry if they overdraw your account? Yeah, right...... shame on you, premie.... you didn't have enough in you account for the lard to use as he sees fit!

Sorry, but to my view, they're taking the 'gratitude' thing just a bit beyond believable!

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Date: Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 01:57:39 (GMT)
From: CD
Email: None
To: Mike
Subject: why
Message:
>Don't these continous requests for money bother you just a little bit?

No, the amounts and pressure seem pretty low.
Have you ever heard of $10K a plate dinners?

I am not impressed by complaining regarding minor financials.
The big money is in sports salaries, the stock market and military spending on large boats and fast planes.

CD

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Date: Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 21:06:41 (GMT)
From: Scott T.
Email: None
To: CD
Subject: The Rodent Dances (crude)
Message:
Et Al:

The Placating Rodent Dances for Donations

It's only a suggestion.

--Scott

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Date: Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 14:44:56 (GMT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: CD
Subject: Oh, get real
Message:
CD: 'The big money is in sports salaries, the stock market and military spending on large boats and fast planes.'

Sports salaries are what the market will bear (demand). The stock market is the stock market; investors (people who actually do something and take a financial risk in doing so) sometimes reap rewards for their efforts. I don't know if you noticed or not, but our enemies have fast planes and large boats; so guess what we've got to have to defend ourselves? From where I sit (and have considerable experience), the military does a damn-sight more for this country than M ever did! He doesn't even pay taxes on his immense wealth! No, he's not the only one getting away with that......

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Date: Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 09:43:34 (GMT)
From: CD
Email: None
To: Mike
Subject: real real
Message:
I am real. I'm californian. Jack cheese.

>what the market will bear

Sure, fincancial risk.
I should know better after the 25 econ and math classes I took at UCSD.
Trouble is, the answer still is not clear except of course you can believe what will make you happy or align with your pocketbook.

>From where I sit (and have considerable experience), the military does a damn-sight more for this country than M ever did!

OK Mike. Youre OK.
I wrote an airbase simulation program in Fortran and then C for the Air Force. The last version was implemented using Win32 threads.
So how much for a cruise missile?
Yes, it is a complex topic.
Seen any black holes lately?

How about one of those quintuple bypasses?

CD

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Date: Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 14:38:34 (GMT)
From: Scott T.
Email: None
To: CD
Subject: real real
Message:
CD:

I understand what Mike is saying, but haven't the foggiest idea what your response is about. Your logic seems to be something like this: 'As long as my life is decent I have no reason to falsify the legitimacy of the guru.' A crude, but accurate, translation. The point here is that your life is an inadequate manifestation of the guru's legitimacy. If he can't stand on his own, he doesn't stand at all. It is the guru's life that's relevant to the discussion, not yours.

--Scott

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Date: Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 04:02:29 (GMT)
From: bb
Email: None
To: CD
Subject: why
Message:
I had the video of that brussels time and there was one song
on it that I liked. Never got released on anything, Kim sang it,
Someone got that vid and I didnt get it back.

The prob CD, is that christianity at least allows for lots of
folks to add thier 2 cents and that is better than having
mysterious masters that we are supposed to just listen to and not
be creative in our own way. Plus, the goal, instead of say,
'love god', is in the guru world, a situation where we are left
dangleing trying to somehow get to some hinted at state of experience
that is never defined in a way that can be confidently attained.

That is enough of a reason to oppose the spread of this kind of
thinking.
Anyway, how come you dont have explorer 5.01 and nt5?

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Date: Thurs, Jan 13, 2000 at 06:03:22 (GMT)
From: Nirvana
Email: Heart Shaped Box
To: Nirvana
Subject: I'm dying to help Maharaji
Message:
On inner sleave of the back of the envelope is a Please Send Me: section which has

  • More self-addressed envelopes.
  • Information and a form for contribution by Credit Card.
  • Information and a form for automatic monthly withdrawal from my bank account to the account of Elan Vital.
  • Information on how I can make a special gift of stocks, other securities or property.
  • Information on how I can include Elan Vital in my estate plan or will.

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Date: Thurs, Jan 13, 2000 at 23:01:29 (GMT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Nirvana
Subject: I'm dying to help Maharaji
Message:
Nirvana: 'Information on how I can include Elan Vital in my estate plan or will.'....... amazing, just amazing!

I can see doing this for an organization that actually DOES something: The Nature Conservancy (they buy land and easements that are then kept wild), your local art museum, your local library, ANYTHING that actually benefits the earth and/or the people inhabiting it (in a substantive way!), whatever! BUT ELAN VITAL??????????? The earth is no better off with the presence of EV than it was without it. In fact, if those dollars and time had been spent by those 'idealists,' on actually DOING something, the earth actually WOULD be a better place...... Consider the MILLIONS and MILLIONS and MILLIONS that have been spent on M's lavish lifestyle. What if they had been used to purchase land to keep it wild? What if they had been used to put the homeless into HOMES (not shelters!)? It would have made an INCREDIBLE difference! That's what DUO was supposed to be for and look how quickly M.... ahem.... 'divested' himself of that financial liability!!!!

Hey EV.... Do the words, 'NO FRIGGIN WAY!' mean anything to you guys?

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Date: Thurs, Jan 13, 2000 at 23:05:53 (GMT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Mike
Subject: Not only that......
Message:
I'm going to add to my previous post: I just can't help myself! I don't normally use profanity (here), but I am going to make a major exception:

Anyone that contributes to M/EV in this manner is just fucking STUPID! You aren't deluded..... you are STUPID!

Sorry, I just couldn't hold that one in!

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Date: Wed, Jan 12, 2000 at 02:28:27 (GMT)
From: la-ex
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: old files about monica,jagdeo.
Message:
I am trying to find what part of the web site some information is on to show a premie, who would like to see it..
There were different categories, documenting m's drinking, parties, jagdeo's sexual abuse,long standing affair with monica lewis, etc...

Can anyone help me out?
Thanks, LA

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Date: Wed, Jan 12, 2000 at 03:17:19 (GMT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: david@xyzx.freeserve.co.uk
To: la-ex
Subject: old files about monica,jagdeo.
Message:
The site you are looking for is The truth about Maharaji. I'm glad this is still of use. It can always be reached by searching on AltaVista for 'maharaji' and it comes up on the first page of results, at least it did last time I looked.
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Date: Wed, Jan 12, 2000 at 06:12:59 (GMT)
From: bb
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: old files about monica,jagdeo.
Message:
You did really fine work there Sir David.
It deserves a home in ex premie org.
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Date: Wed, Jan 12, 2000 at 12:26:34 (GMT)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: la-ex
Subject: locate old threads too
Message:
la-ex: The Jagdeo threads were on Forum III, I think, but may be on IV. I think that the threads are extremely helpful to read. They contain discussions by both Abi (who was horribly sexually abused by Jagdeo) and Susan, who was also sexually assaulted, but to a lesser degree. There's also a thread about how Abi's family disintegrated as a result of their involvement in the cult, including her brother's descent into paralyzing depression, and then suicide, which were virtually ignored by her premie father and mother. Abi's family joined the cult when she was a young child.

I think that these threads help to pull together lots of disparate information about the cult, which I think would be helpful to fence-sitters. Abi & Susan are two of the most helpful contributors to this site in my opinion, and the discussions about what happened to them illuminate the darkest corners of the cult.

I wish your friend well in finding her way out.

Marianne

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Date: Wed, Jan 12, 2000 at 21:49:51 (GMT)
From: Link
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: locate old threads too
Message:
Hi Marianne,
We will have to link those archived threads to appropriate
places in the ex premie org website.

The archives are waiting to be linked together.
Only a matter of time.
And effort.
All suggestions will be done.

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Date: Wed, Jan 12, 2000 at 02:25:23 (GMT)
From: la-ex
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: 'Life imitates fart'
Message:
All I have to say is, truth is stranger than fiction..
The other day, I joked to a friend, 'who knows? Maybe he'll make K into some sort of mail order correspondence course'.
My friend and I had a good laugh, and then, lo and behold, I see it announced that K will now be available via mail order.
How removed can m be, to actually believe that people will try k through the mail?
As Woody Allen once said, 'if you want to write comedy, don't try and be funny!Just look around at the people who are totally serious about themselves!'
I couldn't put it any better...
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Date: Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 01:59:12 (GMT)
From: Did you stay up all night
Email: None
To: la-ex
Subject: thinking about that one?
Message:
Or are you referring to the fact that the thought you had with your friend was a brain fart?
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Date: Wed, Jan 12, 2000 at 05:43:09 (GMT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: david@xyzx.freeserve.co.uk
To: la-ex
Subject: For those who can't afford it
Message:
There's no need to pay huge fees for lengthy correspondence courses to get Knowledge. It's all been made much easier now by the grace of the Internet.

click here for old Knowledge

or if you prefer;

Click here for new Knowledge

If you really want to give something because you feel THAT gratitude, then I suggest you give something to the old man/lady down the road who would certainly appreciate it or perhaps give something to a friend or family member.

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Date: Wed, Jan 12, 2000 at 11:27:28 (GMT)
From: Des Perado
Email: None
To: Maharaji
Subject: I'm Speechless
Message:
I spent seventeen years going light, noise, h. name then tongue. No wonder I never got it right!

I slung them $200 at that knowledge session. And I was unemployed at the time!

I WANT MY MONEY BACK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Date: Wed, Jan 12, 2000 at 06:31:52 (GMT)
From: Runamok
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: Good links, Sir D!
Message:
Nice site, Sir Dave. Have been looking for that David Lane experiment which appears to prove that M'rage ain't no divine nothin'.

Good work. Where'd you get the photos of the guy meditating?

Check out D's links above, everyone.

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Date: Wed, Jan 12, 2000 at 06:14:46 (GMT)
From: Sir Dave (again)
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: And talking of which
Message:
Maharaji won't be too pleased with his failed attempt to spam the AltaVista search index and the ex-premie sites which all show up on the first page of results for a 'maharaji' search will be a major headache for him.

Click here to see what I mean

Maharaji has spammed AltaVista by submitting numerous slightly different URLs of his site and also has it spammed in several different languages. Alas, all these come after the main ex-premie sites in the index. All that effort wasted!

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Date: Wed, Jan 12, 2000 at 18:24:01 (GMT)
From: Christopher
Email: None
To: Sir Dave (again)
Subject: And talking of which
Message:
Dave, it's now Wednesday 18.20pm.

I think ex-premie.org is currently at #9.

But I think that's OK, too.

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Date: Wed, Jan 12, 2000 at 18:34:17 (GMT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: Christopher
Subject: And talking of which
Message:
It's now Wednesday at 18-30 hours and it's still at number nine. Better than a kick up the backside though. At least the main ex-premie sites are on the first page.

Ans re that anti-virus post. God knows how AltaVista works. Perhaps it's grace.

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Date: Wed, Jan 12, 2000 at 19:52:15 (GMT)
From: JW
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: Truth About M site is 7! !
Message:
Good work, Dave.
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Date: Wed, Jan 12, 2000 at 21:29:23 (GMT)
From: Christopher
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: Place your bets! ... (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Wed, Jan 12, 2000 at 07:40:05 (GMT)
From: Vista
Email: None
To: Sir Dave (again)
Subject: And talking of which
Message:
Why is this link at the top of the lists?

Re: virus: maharaji - cults, you know
Mon, 06 Jan 1997 14:00:08 -0500

How does it get so high?

Thanks

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Date: Wed, Jan 12, 2000 at 02:08:43 (GMT)
From: Larkin
Email: larkin@redcrow.demon.co.uk
To: Everyone
Subject: Ballad of premie ji
Message:
(repost)

Premie ji wakes lonely in the troubled twilight
Fumbles to see light, gives up and sleeps again
Premie ji hangs on in quiet desperation
Heard the age is dawning but they don’t say when...

Dreams of days of hopes and plans and good companions
Days lost deep in Maya's spell - but then again...
Premie ji hangs on in quiet desperation
Meddies, coffee, kids to school, and then and then...

Heart was where the home was, where your old pals gathered
Friends she lost while following The Only Way
Premie ji hangs on in quiet desperation
'Last laugh will be mine...' they’d heard her quietly say..

Heart’s a place known only to the heart's devotee
Find the truth and feel your own heart newly born
Premie ji hangs on in quiet desperation
Why, please, won't my heart wake up at crack of dawn?

Kids up watching TV as they scream blue murder
Mummy - want some juice - and Kelly's kicking me!
Premie ji hangs on in quiet desperation
Just two minutes bliss to set her soul-bird free..

Bliss was never there when bliss was sorely needed
Times of grieving, times of needing love and light
Premie ji prays now in quiet desperation:
Please don't tell me it was all a crock of shite...

Seen it, lived it, done it; there's no liberation
Gonna chase my friends up that I lost back when
Premie ji gives up in sudden desperation:
Let heaven go to hell - I want my life again.

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Date: Wed, Jan 12, 2000 at 19:39:48 (GMT)
From: JW
Email: None
To: Larkin
Subject: Excellent and **BEST**
Message:
Very well done Larkin. I especially related to this verse:

Bliss was never there when bliss was sorely needed
Times of grieving, times of needing love and light
Premie ji prays now in quiet desperation:
Please don't tell me it was all a crock of shite...

As a premie, I felt so out of touch with feeling human and knowledge and Maharaji were walls between me and other people. The opposite of what Maharaji said was supposed to happen. So, I blamed myself for not having the faith to rely and Maharaji and knowledge when I needed it most. It just wasn't there, but I just rationalized that I was too dense to see it. Actually, knowledge just doesn't work. But it's true that a premie doesn't want to be told it doesn't work. People can cling on to their beliefs because they fear it's all they have. It's such a lie.

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Date: Wed, Jan 12, 2000 at 00:43:12 (GMT)
From: JW
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Maharaji: DESPERATE for MONEY
Message:
Thanks to Sniggs for posting that 'TOTALLY UNIQUE EVENT' announcement down below. I printed it off and while I was reading it, I was laughing so hard I nearly spilled an entire cup of coffee on myself. Sorry, I just can't get over it.

I think this is what happens when the Guy Formerly Known as the Lord of the Universe is terrified that the million or so bucks it costs him every month to support his lavish lifestyle is drying up. What do you do? Squeeze the premies for money, that's what you do. And make them feel guilty for not coughing up the 20 pounds ($30US, $60AUS, $500CDN or 80 million rupees).

EV and Maharaji used to at least give lip service that anyone would be admitted to one of their 'events' if they couldn't pay. But no more. Even that pretense is gone. Now in order to get a 'reduced payment' you would have to be unemployed, I guess no matter how many mouths you have to feed on your paycheck. God, Maharaji is really desperate for cash. And then, of course, other premies will have to make up the difference.

Of course, this money is only needed because the broadcast will 'cost of lot of money.' Notice how specfic that is? Think Elan Vital or Maharaji would ever DISCLOSE what those transmissions actually cost and how much PROFIT they are making off them? NOOOOOOOOooooooooo.

Then of course the plan is to have Maharaji make these little broadcasts in his basement with his trite new-age music, and make premies pay 25 pounds a month (about $40US) EACH to watch the damn things in their homes, after they buy the equipment of course, and ONLY from the EXCLUSIVE supplier (what kickbacks are going on there, hmmm?). Let's see. About $500 per year per premie. If there are 10,000 premies in North America and Europe, that's $5,000,000 per year!!!!! And Maharaji doesn't have to get off his ass to go anywhere at all.

Or, if the premies are too untogether to get satellites at home, they will charge the premies each $30 per broadcast for 40 broadcasts a year. That's $1200 each, or $12,000,000 a year, and that doesn't even count Australia, India, etc. WHAT a deal and what SUCKERS the premies are who fall for this! Maharaji will be able to continue to be up to his ass in gold toilets and Rolls Royces no problem.

And there WON'T be a video. No way, Jose. No competition from that, NO SIR. Pay up and watch the satellite feed or miss out on these VERY IMPORTANT 'specially prepared by Maharaji himself' programs. Oy Vey!

AND knowledge is sson to be a mail order business......TOO FUNNY....

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Date: Thurs, Jan 13, 2000 at 05:28:06 (GMT)
From: mimi
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: Maharaji: DESPERATE for MONEY
Message:
No. Wrong. Maharaji doesn't touch money at all, remember. The crazy premies are doing it all. EVital is desperate for money, not him. Commmmmmmmmooooooonnnnnnnn!! Premies: WAKE UP PLEASE! As a spoiled brat like it looks he is, he probably wants something new, so the PAMs (people around M.) are going to get it. The lord wants the lord gets.
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Date: Wed, Jan 12, 2000 at 01:31:32 (GMT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: david@xyzx.freeserve.co.uk
To: JW
Subject: Maharaji: DESPERATE for MONEY
Message:
I have a premie friend who will no doubt watch and tape all Maharaji's broadcasts. I can knock out copies of Maharaji's broadcasts for half the price of the cost of a broadcast and a tiny fraction of the price of a dish etc.

So if you're a premie and use the British and European PAL format video (as opposed to American NTSC) then I'm your man. All videos will be supplied in a video case and posted in a strong, plain padded bag. (Nobody will know you're receiving Maharaji tapes since they'll probably think they're porn videos)

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Date: Wed, Jan 12, 2000 at 00:19:49 (GMT)
From: JW
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Mail Order Knowledge
Message:
This is too, too funny. My, how the mighty have fallen. From perfect master, to whose lotus feet multitudes would throng, to a chincy, multi-millionaire, who is reduced to squeezing money out of his followers by charging for satellite transmissions, and dissememinating knowledge as a correspondence course. Can you believe this?

The last paragraph of the announcement (someone posted down below) of the 'totally unique event' (bad English guys, what are you Valley girls or something?) says the following:

...and we are happy to announce that it will soon be possible for people to prepare for Knowledge on a postal basis entirely at home, if they wish.

What is next? The Home Shopping Channel? 'Knowledge Preparations Kits' sold in the Visions Catalogue? How much do you think Elan Vital might charge for these correspondence courses? Just enough to cover 'expenses' of course. This is absolutely hysterical.

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Date: Wed, Jan 12, 2000 at 14:42:08 (GMT)
From: Powerman
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: Mail Order Knowledge
Message:
Okay, here's the question. Obviously maharaji's watered this thing down so it's a joke. So is it still a cult? Is it less of a cult? I mean, at some point, it's like the Mickey Mouse Club. Everyone gets a set of ears and a membership card and everyone pretends... oh, shit, that's what it always was. Never mind.
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Date: Wed, Jan 12, 2000 at 15:18:17 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Powerman
Subject: What you can't see .....
Message:
from outside, is that this is not the only thing that's going on.

The cult stuff is still going these days. According to reliable sources, Rawat is having training meetings on every continent with involved premies, organizors, co-ordinators etc and starting 'team' activities in every country .....

First you'll have to get 'knowledge', and then you get involved in this endless group meetings stuff .....

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Date: Wed, Jan 12, 2000 at 05:24:23 (GMT)
From: will it come in a brown
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: paper wrapper?
Message:
What is next? The Home Shopping Channel? 'Knowledge Preparations Kits' sold in
the Visions Catalogue? How much do you think Elan Vital might charge for these
correspondence courses? Just enough to cover 'expenses' of course. This is absolutely
hysterical.

These people have no shame. But for those who do, they can now assure that no one knows they are premies by getting special K in the privacy of thier own homes.

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Date: Thurs, Jan 13, 2000 at 23:11:08 (GMT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: will it come in a brown
Subject: paper wrapper?
Message:
You miss the point, 'will it come...' Don't you see just how beautiful it is that M has made it SOOOOO easy to get K? I can see the premies slobbering all over themselves. Next? Why not deevine instructions with photos of someone properly doing the techniques? UH, OH!!!!!!!! Jean-Michel has beaten them to it!!!!!!! he he he :-)
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Date: Thurs, Jan 13, 2000 at 18:46:28 (GMT)
From: Ugghhhh
Email: None
To: Special K
Subject: I'll pass?
Message:

Ugghhhh responded:

Special K is the street name for the drug Ketamine. Other names by which it is known are Ketalar, Ketaject, and Super-K. Ketamine is closely related to PCP, and it produces very similar effects. Like PCP, Ketamine use produces a reaction called a dissociative state, and also like PCP, Ketamine is known to cause bad reactions in some of its users. However, unlike PCP, Special K is a legal prescription drug intended for use as an anesthetic for people and large animals. In recent years, Ketamine has begun to be used recreationally. Similar to PCP, Ketamine can have a significant impact on coordination, thought, and judgment, and it can produce agitation, violence, confusion, and communication difficulties.

Now we know what's wrong with us. Probably had his darshan socks coated with Special K ;-)

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Date: Wed, Jan 12, 2000 at 01:28:53 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: Make a great MLM, too
Message:
English Valley girls, lol !

Theres' s just got to be a network opportunity in all this, what with video preparation and all, one could host home 'events' (TM) with a properly edited script, of course.

I wonder if it's too late to get in on the ground floor...

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