Forum V: Archive
Compiled: Fri, Feb 18, 2000 at 17:48:57 (GMT)
From: Feb 07, 2000 To: Feb 16, 2000 Page: 3 Of: 5


Marianne -:- London Calling -:- Fri, Feb 11, 2000 at 21:12:34 (GMT)
__ JHB -:- FOR KATIE - PLEASE READ -:- Sat, Feb 12, 2000 at 22:11:10 (GMT)
__ cqg -:- London Calling .... come in London .... -:- Sat, Feb 12, 2000 at 10:34:12 (GMT)
__ Ms. K -:- London Answering -:- Fri, Feb 11, 2000 at 23:25:57 (GMT)
__ __ AJW -:- Leading us astray. -:- Sat, Feb 12, 2000 at 11:43:11 (GMT)
__ __ Robyn -:- America Answering -:- Fri, Feb 11, 2000 at 23:42:39 (GMT)
__ __ __ AJW -:- europa calling -:- Sat, Feb 12, 2000 at 12:04:20 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Robyn -:- Anthstrodamus -:- Sat, Feb 12, 2000 at 14:16:06 (GMT)
__ Lee -:- London Calling -:- Fri, Feb 11, 2000 at 21:30:42 (GMT)
__ Jean-Michel -:- London Calling -:- Fri, Feb 11, 2000 at 21:28:17 (GMT)
__ __ Charlie -:- London Calling -:- Fri, Feb 11, 2000 at 22:06:47 (GMT)
__ __ __ Know It All -:- Fear strikes the hearts of the fainthearted -:- Fri, Feb 11, 2000 at 22:13:39 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ BJ -:- The brits -:- Sat, Feb 12, 2000 at 04:15:12 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Ringo Starr -:- Olivia -:- Sat, Feb 12, 2000 at 12:08:47 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ BJ -:- Olivia -:- Sat, Feb 12, 2000 at 14:48:26 (GMT)

Happy -:- Dates? -:- Fri, Feb 11, 2000 at 16:51:48 (GMT)
__ Ms. K -:- Partial answer -:- Fri, Feb 11, 2000 at 23:58:27 (GMT)
__ __ Angry -:- Partial answer -:- Sat, Feb 12, 2000 at 09:44:53 (GMT)
__ __ __ Happy -:- thanks -:- Mon, Feb 14, 2000 at 14:11:37 (GMT)

Shp -:- God bless everyone here -:- Fri, Feb 11, 2000 at 00:58:57 (GMT)
__ Robyn -:- God bless everyone here -:- Fri, Feb 11, 2000 at 23:44:44 (GMT)
__ AJW -:- Blessings received, over... -:- Fri, Feb 11, 2000 at 11:44:20 (GMT)
__ __ Shp -:- Blessings received, over... -:- Fri, Feb 11, 2000 at 16:15:50 (GMT)
__ __ __ AJW -:- Right on Sandy, good for you (nt) -:- Sat, Feb 12, 2000 at 12:12:48 (GMT)
__ __ Shp -:- Blessings received, over... -:- Fri, Feb 11, 2000 at 16:15:44 (GMT)
__ Dr Sigmund Freud -:- God Sandford you are FRIGHTENING (NT) -:- Fri, Feb 11, 2000 at 07:01:09 (GMT)
__ __ Shp -:- God Sandford you are FRIGHTENING (NT) -:- Fri, Feb 11, 2000 at 16:23:25 (GMT)
__ SB -:- God bless everyone here -:- Fri, Feb 11, 2000 at 04:44:26 (GMT)
__ Mu -:- Well, aren't you just the sweetest thing!?!? -:- Fri, Feb 11, 2000 at 02:38:43 (GMT)
__ JHB -:- God bless everyone here -:- Fri, Feb 11, 2000 at 01:08:08 (GMT)
__ __ Shp -:- God bless everyone here -:- Fri, Feb 11, 2000 at 02:48:47 (GMT)
__ __ __ cqg -:- God bless everyone here ... especially Scrooge? -:- Fri, Feb 11, 2000 at 20:53:00 (GMT)
__ __ __ Mike -:- God bless everyone here -:- Fri, Feb 11, 2000 at 15:09:45 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Shp -:- God bless everyone here -:- Fri, Feb 11, 2000 at 16:32:04 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ JHB -:- Hunzas -:- Mon, Feb 14, 2000 at 15:07:00 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Mike -:- Shp..... -:- Fri, Feb 11, 2000 at 19:00:13 (GMT)
__ __ Amari -:- God bless everyone here -:- Fri, Feb 11, 2000 at 02:10:10 (GMT)
__ __ __ AJW -:- Beware Amari -:- Fri, Feb 11, 2000 at 11:52:40 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Shp -:- Beware Amari -:- Fri, Feb 11, 2000 at 16:42:41 (GMT)
__ __ __ Shp -:- God bless everyone here -:- Fri, Feb 11, 2000 at 03:33:08 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Brian -:- Thankyou Tiny Tim -:- Fri, Feb 11, 2000 at 04:00:55 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Shp -:- Thankyou Tiny Tim -:- Fri, Feb 11, 2000 at 16:59:36 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Brian -:- Not at all -:- Fri, Feb 11, 2000 at 20:20:21 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Runamok -:- Tiny Tim's Dead, Brian (nt) -:- Fri, Feb 11, 2000 at 04:05:31 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Brian -:- Tiny Tim's Dead? Blasphemy! -:- Fri, Feb 11, 2000 at 15:28:07 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Mike -:- BWAH HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA! -:- Fri, Feb 11, 2000 at 21:01:40 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ AJW -:- Not in our hearts Run' (sniff) (nt) -:- Fri, Feb 11, 2000 at 11:46:49 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Tiny Tim -:- God bless us, everyone! -:- Fri, Feb 11, 2000 at 14:52:45 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Runamok -:- Can I have the ukelele when you do croaK? nt -:- Fri, Feb 11, 2000 at 18:12:15 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Tiny Tim -:- You can have my crutches -:- Fri, Feb 11, 2000 at 18:53:30 (GMT)

cqg -:- all right then, let's not talk about god ... -:- Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 20:43:42 (GMT)

Powerman -:- Dumbest Things Guru Ever Said-What's Your Favorite -:- Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 19:24:49 (GMT)
__ G -:- '... go sit on a block of ice!' -:- Fri, Feb 11, 2000 at 19:31:43 (GMT)
__ toby4u -:- an embarrising one -:- Fri, Feb 11, 2000 at 10:24:45 (GMT)
__ Jerry -:- Dumbest Things Guru Ever Said-What's Your Favorite -:- Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 21:44:09 (GMT)
__ __ reader -:- Dumbest Things Guru Ever Said-What's Your Favorite -:- Sun, Feb 13, 2000 at 17:17:25 (GMT)
__ Mike -:- Mine's pretty simple...... -:- Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 20:52:56 (GMT)
__ __ Jim -:- I like the God ones, myself -:- Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 22:41:08 (GMT)
__ __ cqg -:- Mine's pretty simple...... -:- Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 21:00:07 (GMT)
__ __ __ Mike -:- AYEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE! (nt) -:- Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 21:14:24 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ SB -:- A good one: The aim? to longer be anything... -:- Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 22:10:07 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ cqg -:- The aim? ... you belong to him (minus soul?) [nt] -:- Fri, Feb 11, 2000 at 20:35:39 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ KMDARLING -:- How about the mother rat's ass? -:- Sun, Feb 13, 2000 at 22:21:37 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ G -:- Could you post 'How about the mother...' again? -:- Sun, Feb 13, 2000 at 22:48:13 (GMT)

SB -:- He said. Is it true? -:- Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 19:21:09 (GMT)
__ Jim -:- You are so right, SB -:- Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 23:20:43 (GMT)
__ __ VP -:- Jim, you're killin' me! -:- Sat, Feb 12, 2000 at 13:29:59 (GMT)
__ __ __ SB -:- NO, talking about him -:- Sat, Feb 12, 2000 at 17:26:08 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ VP -:- NO, talking about him -:- Sat, Feb 12, 2000 at 19:29:32 (GMT)
__ __ __ Jim -:- Jim, you're killin' me! -:- Sat, Feb 12, 2000 at 13:44:17 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ VP -:- Jim, you're killin' me! -:- Sat, Feb 12, 2000 at 14:07:02 (GMT)
__ Mike -:- Can I ask a question? -:- Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 20:58:31 (GMT)
__ Haldor -:- He said. Is it true? -:- Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 20:07:47 (GMT)
__ __ Well said -:- Hal -:- Fri, Feb 11, 2000 at 03:29:03 (GMT)
__ __ Jerry -:- Rotten Vegetables -:- Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 22:10:46 (GMT)
__ __ Mike -:- So, the Jim Jones cult -:- Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 21:12:26 (GMT)
__ __ cqg -:- er, Haldor... (open the pod bay door, hal) ... -:- Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 20:58:01 (GMT)
__ __ __ Hal -:- er, Haldor... (open the pod bay door, hal) ... -:- Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 22:49:00 (GMT)
__ Selene -:- He said. Is it true? -:- Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 19:51:44 (GMT)
__ __ SB -:- He said. Is it true? -:- Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 21:49:57 (GMT)
__ __ __ Selene -:- spirit, bad choice of words huh? -:- Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 22:22:15 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ SB -:- spirit, bad choice of words huh? no! -:- Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 22:27:21 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- hi again SB -:- Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 22:47:13 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ SB -:- hi again -:- Fri, Feb 11, 2000 at 04:26:29 (GMT)

djuro raguz -:- Close your eyes -:- Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 16:17:48 (GMT)
__ Mike -:- I don't have to close my eyes to 'see' that! -:- Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 16:41:58 (GMT)

Marianne -:- Merseyside - OT -:- Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 16:00:46 (GMT)
__ G -:- Ferry 'Cross The Mersey - Gerry and the Pacemakers -:- Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 23:39:14 (GMT)

Haldor -:- Giving up the search? -:- Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 14:18:43 (GMT)
__ test -:- nt -:- Fri, Feb 11, 2000 at 07:25:34 (GMT)
__ G -:- Giving up the search? -:- Fri, Feb 11, 2000 at 01:53:07 (GMT)
__ __ Haldor -:- Giving up the search? -:- Fri, Feb 11, 2000 at 06:54:06 (GMT)
__ DOD -:- Haldor the balder but no wiser! -:- Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 20:32:32 (GMT)
__ __ Haldor -:- Haldor the balder but no wiser! -:- Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 20:43:10 (GMT)
__ __ __ BJ -:- Haldor the balder but no wiser! -:- Sun, Feb 13, 2000 at 17:30:27 (GMT)
__ Sir David -:- Giving up the search? I already knew it -:- Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 17:27:37 (GMT)
__ __ Haldor -:- Giving up the search? I already knew it -:- Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 20:16:15 (GMT)
__ Mike -:- Yup -:- Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 16:52:03 (GMT)
__ AJW -:- Time to grow up Haldor -:- Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 15:09:52 (GMT)
__ __ Way -:- Time to grow up Haldor -:- Fri, Feb 11, 2000 at 16:15:08 (GMT)
__ __ Hal -:- Time to grow up Haldor -:- Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 15:34:55 (GMT)
__ __ __ Jerry -:- Time to grow up Haldor -:- Fri, Feb 11, 2000 at 00:01:38 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Mike -:- Laid is good! -:- Fri, Feb 11, 2000 at 21:13:16 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ AJW -:- Fat is a hedonist issue. -:- Fri, Feb 11, 2000 at 12:00:16 (GMT)

nightlight -:- Is Maharaji an original thinker? -:- Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 08:35:09 (GMT)
__ cqg -:- original thinker?...more like original bullshitter -:- Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 19:16:15 (GMT)
__ Mike -:- An achievement? -:- Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 17:01:28 (GMT)
__ toby4u -:- Maharaji an original plagiator -:- Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 15:54:08 (GMT)
__ a pro web developer -:- Is Maharaji an original thinker? -:- Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 15:15:48 (GMT)
__ Haldor -:- Is Maharaji an original thinker? -:- Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 13:36:52 (GMT)
__ __ Jerry -:- Is Maharaji an original thinker? -:- Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 14:19:21 (GMT)
__ __ __ Haldor -:- Is Maharaji an original thinker? -:- Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 14:24:57 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Jerry -:- Bullshit -:- Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 14:52:23 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Haldor -:- Bullshit -:- Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 14:56:53 (GMT)
__ Jean-Michel -:- You kidding ? -:- Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 08:57:22 (GMT)
__ __ Gregg -:- The differently-abled Guru -:- Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 18:17:26 (GMT)
__ __ __ Jean-Michel -:- I'm sorry I had the most stupid guru -:- Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 18:33:41 (GMT)

Time to LAUGH -:- If mahaha comes here often to reads our posts... -:- Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 02:34:59 (GMT)
__ DOD -:- If mahaha comes here often to reads our posts... -:- Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 20:10:04 (GMT)
__ Haldor -:- If mahaha comes here often to reads our posts... -:- Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 13:30:38 (GMT)
__ Jethro -:- If mahaha comes here often to reads our posts... -:- Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 05:51:46 (GMT)
__ Modest Mouse -:- Time to LAUGH at what? You? -:- Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 03:21:25 (GMT)
__ __ Jean-Michel -:- The official word is 'this is not important' ! -:- Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 08:26:49 (GMT)
__ __ __ SB -:- The official word is 'this is not important' ! -:- Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 16:50:20 (GMT)

cqg -:- Intelligence vs religiosity (continued?) -:- Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 20:27:47 (GMT)
__ michael -:- Hmmmm... (nt) -:- Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 00:51:47 (GMT)

Jean-Michel -:- Sexual Harassment addressed in EV's trainings -:- Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 18:32:48 (GMT)
__ Testing (nt) -:- Test (nt) -:- Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 06:16:42 (GMT)
__ 09 -:- Can you get Religious harrassment ? (OT) -:- Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 20:06:51 (GMT)
__ __ Jean-Michel -:- Can you get Religious harrassment ? (OT) -:- Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 20:39:32 (GMT)
__ __ __ 09 -:- Can you get Religious harrassment ? (OT) -:- Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 10:21:52 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Jean-Michel -:- Ev and sexual harrassment: something done? -:- Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 10:37:56 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ 09 -:- Ev and sexual harrassment: something done? -:- Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 11:27:17 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Jean-Michel -:- Can't you figure out USA is not the only place? -:- Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 14:32:48 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ 09 -:- Can't you figure out USA is not the only place? -:- Fri, Feb 11, 2000 at 00:56:39 (GMT)

a spy -:- Recent invitation to a special event -:- Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 17:16:49 (GMT)
__ Agent 99(:(: -:- Recent invitation to a special event -:- Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 07:28:48 (GMT)
__ Sir Dave -:- Recent invitation to a special event -:- Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 01:16:01 (GMT)
__ __ G -:- people turned off by 'Maharaji' -:- Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 02:55:14 (GMT)
__ __ __ cqg -:- has he given meditation a bad name? -:- Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 21:06:47 (GMT)
__ __ __ Haldor -:- people turned off by 'Maharaji' -:- Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 14:54:13 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ G -:- people turned off by 'Maharaji' -:- Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 15:27:02 (GMT)
__ Dunceoafdolt (DOD) -:- When is the next live program? -:- Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 19:59:30 (GMT)
__ __ Way -:- Should you go? -:- Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 22:29:23 (GMT)
__ __ __ G -:- go to the event? -:- Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 22:34:24 (GMT)


Date: Fri, Feb 11, 2000 at 21:12:34 (GMT)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: London Calling
Message:
Here I am with Lee and Charlie, having been fed fine food and wine at their place. I have been shown the location of Mick Jagger's home in Richmond Upon Thames, which overlooks the scene made famous by the great British artist, John Constable himself. Oh, and what sites they were! Lee is a fabulous fine artist of cuisine herself. Charlie is rather wild behind the wheel of his car. I'm just along for the ride, the meek Yank in the hands of the wild & wily Brits!

What a wonderful world the internet is!

Love, Marianne

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Date: Sat, Feb 12, 2000 at 22:11:10 (GMT)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: FOR KATIE - PLEASE READ
Message:
Katie,

I've sent you the Latvian club number by email.

John.

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Date: Sat, Feb 12, 2000 at 10:34:12 (GMT)
From: cqg
Email: None
To: Marianne, Anth et al
Subject: London Calling .... come in London ....
Message:
Made it!

The Latvian does a basic but wholesome B&B,(thanks John), I've already sampled the Porteris (can't get enuff of that wonnerful stuff), and Mr Wu's round the corner (all-you-can eat for under a fiver Chinese restaurant) has given me a belly like a beach-ball.

Check your email this morning, Anth & Marianne,- maybe we can meet up this pm?

See you later!

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Date: Fri, Feb 11, 2000 at 23:25:57 (GMT)
From: Ms. K
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: London Answering
Message:
We just placed a call to London, and got to speak to Marianne and Charlie (and hear Lee in the background). I have got to say that Marianne's statement that she is the meek Yank in the hands of the wild & wily Brits! was a bit deceiving. Over the phone, it definitely sounded like the quiet Brits had a partying California girl in their midst. (You go, girl!)

Brian and I are extremely envious of Marianne after this phone call. And since it looks like the ex-premies aren't going to band together and buy us a G-4 anytime soon because they are so 'grateful' (snicker), we have both decided that we are going to start saving money so that we can travel to travel to Britain and meet all of you.

I won't say 'have a good time tonight, folks', because you obviously already ARE. But I hope y'all have a great time tomorrow at the Latvian bash (and, Marianne, remember to take pictures!) We'll be with you 'in spirit'... (or else Marianne can give us the phone number of the Latvian Club.)

Love,
Katie

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Date: Sat, Feb 12, 2000 at 11:43:11 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Ms. K
Subject: Leading us astray.
Message:
Hi Katie,

You must have spoke to them before Charlie and Lee passed out, and Marianne left the house looking for an all night bar.

Anth the Safely Tucked Up In Bed By Nineoclock.

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Date: Fri, Feb 11, 2000 at 23:42:39 (GMT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: Ms. K and all in Britain
Subject: America Answering
Message:
Hey guys, you know how I feel and if I was in a position to save, I'd be just a saving. Maybe some day though, the motivation is there that is for sure. Enjoy and know that I too am there in spirit. :)
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Sat, Feb 12, 2000 at 12:04:20 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Robyn
Subject: europa calling
Message:
hi Robyn,

we shall certainly be raising our glasses to you tonight.

One day we'll have an international meeting in the Palais del Sport, and it will packed with cheering ex-premies, and pretty soon after that the lion will shag the lamb and there'll be peace on earth. And you can quote me on that.

take care

Anthstrodamus

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Date: Sat, Feb 12, 2000 at 14:16:06 (GMT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Anthstrodamus
Message:
Dear Anth,
Anthstrodamus, Christ that is funny, you are so funny I have to admit that I like Your Sinus, by Cindy right, as much but you are right up there in my book dear. Maybe I'll have a glass of my old nasty wine tonight, thinking of all of you. Can you drink cheap wine that has been around and open since September? Kind of gives me the creeps to even think about putting it to my lips! :|
Love you and all the crowd meeting tonight,
Robyn
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Date: Fri, Feb 11, 2000 at 21:30:42 (GMT)
From: Lee
Email: n/a
To: Marianne
Subject: London Calling
Message:
Dear Marianne

Now we know that you haven't heard Kamikiriad by Donald Fagen, you're going to hear it as part of your education of being in London. Mind you, how come you missed it back in the US?

I haven't been in touch with Forum V at all since it began but all I can say is that it's great that out of the Maharaji experience, you can still get to meet great people.

Cheers

Love Lee

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Date: Fri, Feb 11, 2000 at 21:28:17 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: London Calling
Message:
Hi Marianne,

See you tomorrrow !!!

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Date: Fri, Feb 11, 2000 at 22:06:47 (GMT)
From: Charlie
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel et al
Subject: London Calling
Message:
Hi y'all,

this evening Marianne the 'Celebrity' Death Penalty Lawyer and Celebrity Ex-Premie from San Fran is sewing a thread that will bind all us exes together (Yanks, Limeys and Frogs alike). She's on a whistle stop tour of the UK and at the moment and it is our pleasure to be playing host to her, and may I say it's a great pleasure to do so. It's thrilling to meet with other exes, I highly recommend it. Up till 3.00 pm today Marianne was simply a name on a list. OK, I know that's unfair, there's more dimention to the forum than that but really flesh and blood is so much better. As a matter of fact she also guaratees that Larkin (from up the 'Pool) also does indeed exist in the real world as well as in cyberspace! Fantastic!

This Internet caper really is adding up to so much more than just buying cheap books and CDs. It will be the end of small gods too!

Love to all.. Charlie

Hey Nigel, do you know if the expression the ''Pool' referes to Liverpool or Blackpool?

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Date: Fri, Feb 11, 2000 at 22:13:39 (GMT)
From: Know It All
Email: None
To: Charlie
Subject: Fear strikes the hearts of the fainthearted
Message:
So, what thread is it that Marianne is sewing? Is it a thread that, like Larkin suggested, will cook Maharaji's goose? The sauce is being prepared as we speak...... Is there a thread that can cook a goose after all?

Love to all,
Know It All

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Date: Sat, Feb 12, 2000 at 04:15:12 (GMT)
From: BJ
Email: None
To: You guys
Subject: The brits
Message:
This may sound silly but if people here are looking at celebs houses in Eng. Do you all know - like is it common knowledge to you all that Olivia (George
harrison's] wife is a premie and M's been to his house?Just some gossip maybe everyone already knows.

BJ

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Date: Sat, Feb 12, 2000 at 12:08:47 (GMT)
From: Ringo Starr
Email: None
To: BJ
Subject: Olivia
Message:
Olivia is an ex-premie.

Ringo Starr

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Date: Sat, Feb 12, 2000 at 14:48:26 (GMT)
From: BJ
Email: None
To: Ringo Starr
Subject: Olivia
Message:
We know for sure positive? I find that hard to believe - can't say why.
BJ
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Date: Fri, Feb 11, 2000 at 16:51:48 (GMT)
From: Happy
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Dates?
Message:
To everyone:

I'm working on a text about M, and I wonder if anyone could fill my in with some information:

1) Prem Pal's and Marolyn's marriage was 1974, wasn't it?
2) Brother Raja ji married before him, didn't he, but when? and what was Claudia's surname? They divorced what year?
3) The year Navlata was born?
4) The years Prem Pal's (other...?) children were born?

greatful for help,
Happy Heretic

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Date: Fri, Feb 11, 2000 at 23:58:27 (GMT)
From: Ms. K
Email: None
To: Happy
Subject: Partial answer
Message:
Hi Happy -

M and Marolyn got married in late May of 1974. Premlata (a.k.a Wadi Sue) was born in March of 1975.

I also think that Raja Ji got married AFTER Maharaji did. I think I would have remembered if it had happened before, because M's marriage was a shock to the premie community. According to the on-site glossary, Claudia's maiden (or last?)name was Littman.

Also according to the on-site glossary, Amar, Maharaji's youngest child, was born in 1981. Don't know when Daya or Hansi were born, except that it was somewhere in between 1975 and 1981.

Hope this helps a bit -
Katie

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Date: Sat, Feb 12, 2000 at 09:44:53 (GMT)
From: Angry
Email: None
To: Ms. K
Subject: Partial answer
Message:
When kid # 2 or 3 was born c. 1977 0r '78, the word came forth via the phone tree that we should do the 4 hypnotic techniques as the then Durga Ji was in labor. Great idea! -except the word never came forth that the kid was born so the real gopi's are still following the agya of the Lord. They are doing one technique after another and don't even know he's not the Lord anymore. What's a sattelite dish?
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Date: Mon, Feb 14, 2000 at 14:11:37 (GMT)
From: Happy
Email: None
To: Katie and Angry
Subject: thanks
Message:
Thanks to both of you. I also remember those 'labor meditations'.
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Date: Fri, Feb 11, 2000 at 00:58:57 (GMT)
From: Shp
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: God bless everyone here
Message:
And if you don't want to accept it now, it will be waiting for you until you do, or you can refuse it and the energy will go back to the source.

A blessing is the movement of power force and energy, very real scientific stuff (ask doctors researching it), directed from one being to another, like a gift, and offered in unconditional love. It's just pure positive energy offered, to be applied to whatever needs each has to fulfill, in right action. It can heal, strengthen and give life to both the recipient and the giver.

Some of you will probably appreciate this and some of you will probably trash me for this post. That's OK. I am not attached to the praise or the blame.

I just wanted to flush out the pipes and send some fresh energy through to anyone interested.

If any ex-premie were in a life-threatening situation and I could save them, I would. Is there an ex-premie who would stand by and let me die if they could save me from such a situation, because of our differences about Maharaji?

I just want to reach a common denominator if possible and work from there. Disagreements arise, personal insults ensue, and then all hell breaks loose...it probably would thorugh some if we were all in a Road Warrior or Lord of the Flies scenario. That's the story of the human race. We can do better than that if we want to.

Theories fly around here. That's easy. Dime a dozen. Somebody writes a book and because it's in print, more credence is usually given to somebody who had the wherewithall to put a book together and publish it.

Anybody want to talk about their own personal realities, where they really live? Some have done so and that's where the energy is, that's where the rubber meets the road. The rest are blowing smoke, far as I'm concerned. We don't live in our heads and in our theories and concepts. We live in our bodies on a planet suspended in space. We live in our cells, every one of them and the office is upstairs where we think and feel and experience what we are going through. Our consciousness is our home, and where we put our attention is what we are conscious of at any given moment. Ideas are cool if they can be manifested and lived and can make our lives more meaningful or (pardon the expression) enjoyable. But to just talk about somebody else's book or philosophy instead of our own life reveals a lack or an inattention to one's own life. Like folks who always talk about what's on TV or at the movies, but whose life is untogether.

I just wanted to do something real and positive and constructive
and down-to-earth for those who may be receptive. So God bless everyone here, unconditionally and sincerely. Anyone can send a blessing and it's real. And you don't have to send this to ten other people and nothing bad will happen to you if you think I'm nuts. It's what it is.

Shp

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Date: Fri, Feb 11, 2000 at 23:44:44 (GMT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: Shp
Subject: God bless everyone here
Message:
Dear Sandy,
Thanks, appreciated and needed. :)
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Fri, Feb 11, 2000 at 11:44:20 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Shp
Subject: Blessings received, over...
Message:
Hi Sandy,

I'm not sure if I get the gist of your post or not. Maybe is't something one of us was smoking. Anyway, looks to me like you're giving us your 'blessings' in cyberspace, so to speak. (I know you don't consider yourself anything more than the rest of us, but they would be coming from your higher self, if you get my drift.)

Anyway, it reminded me of a story, my old pal Bruno told me once. He used to be an instructor. He arrived at an airport somewhere and there was a bunch of local premies waiting to meet him and drive him to where he was staying.

He got in the front seat of the car. There was a group of premies standing on the pavement waving him off, but the car wouldn't start. Bruno lifted both his hands in the air and motioned forwards to them, to push the car and bump start it.

They all thought he was giving them his blessings,(two handed maharaji style) and, instead of pushing, they all dropped to their knees and bowed their heads to the pavement, 'pranam' style.

Eeeeh what japes, what lilas.

take care Sandy,

anth (a pranam too far).

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Date: Fri, Feb 11, 2000 at 16:15:50 (GMT)
From: Shp
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Blessings received, over...
Message:
That's funny about Bruno.

I just wished everybody well out loud, that's all.
No strings, no oneupmanship, just straight across good will.

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Date: Sat, Feb 12, 2000 at 12:12:48 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Shp
Subject: Right on Sandy, good for you (nt)
Message:
...wishing someone goodwill ain't no crime.

(I've started to lie about the (nt).

Anth the Liar.

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Date: Fri, Feb 11, 2000 at 16:15:44 (GMT)
From: Shp
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Blessings received, over...
Message:
That's funny about Bruno.

I just wished everybody well out loud, that's all.
No strings, no oneupmanship, just straight across good will.

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Date: Fri, Feb 11, 2000 at 07:01:09 (GMT)
From: Dr Sigmund Freud
Email: SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS
To: Shp
Subject: God Sandford you are FRIGHTENING (NT)
Message:
Imagine what caused that!
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Date: Fri, Feb 11, 2000 at 16:23:25 (GMT)
From: Shp
Email: None
To: Dr Sigmund Freud
Subject: God Sandford you are FRIGHTENING (NT)
Message:
Siggy,

If I frighten the father of 'modern psychiatry', then I must be on the right track. Thanks for the boost.

If the people of the world could sue you for screwing up people's heads instead of their lungs and bodies like the tobacco companies and the polluters got it, you'd be looking for a roof to jump off.

I beleive you have some pretty frightening uissues of your own to deal with, dontcha?

Thanks again and bless you Sig.

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Date: Fri, Feb 11, 2000 at 04:44:26 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: Shp
Subject: God bless everyone here
Message:
Well, I read your posts. thanks for the blessing. I know what you mean. Positive thoughts.

I like:

I just want to reach a common denominator if possible and work from there. Disagreements arise, personal insults ensue, and then all hell breaks loose...it probably would thorugh some if we were all in a Road Warrior or Lord of the Flies scenario. That's the story of the human race. We can do better than that if we want to.

Agree. is better to talk than to fight.

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Date: Fri, Feb 11, 2000 at 02:38:43 (GMT)
From: Mu
Email: None
To: Shp
Subject: Well, aren't you just the sweetest thing!?!?
Message:
You wrote:
If any ex-premie were in a life-threatening situation and I could
save them, I would. Is there an ex-premie who would stand by and let me die if they could save me from such a situation, because of our differences about Maharaji?

Me, Mu, save you? Let me check the kharma/dharma...let's see. OK, once, twice maybe. After that you're on your own!

Oh, yeah, if you want to follow maharaji, go right ahead, don't care. It's your money, your time, your life. If you ever come to realize that he is playing a very bad bit part and you feel like you have been had, you will need some sympathy. You'll have it.

God bless ya right back. For what it's worth.

ps - don't recheck the serenest thread

HAHAHAHAH and HOHOHOHOHO

I AM - Mu

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Date: Fri, Feb 11, 2000 at 01:08:08 (GMT)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Shp
Subject: God bless everyone here
Message:
So Sandy, you have set yourself up as a guru now? Well done, I knew you had it in you. Your teachings are good, I feel inspired, but one little point - what does anything you say have to do with real life and real love???

John.

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Date: Fri, Feb 11, 2000 at 02:48:47 (GMT)
From: Shp
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: God bless everyone here
Message:
So Sandy, you have set yourself up as a guru now? Well done, I knew you had it in you. Your teachings are good, I feel inspired, but one little point - what does anything you say have to do with real life and real love??? John.

John,

I have not set myself up as anything. That is the misconception
that holds so many people back from being channels of blessings to each other, or be channels of healing or anything else good.
We have become a world of spectators, not participating in the real movement of energy in our own lives, letting the 'experts' do our birthing, legal work, education, religion, doctor us, and finally prepare us for burial. There was a time when ordinary people knew how to deal with all the rights of passage with a little help from someone who had been there before us. Now everything is farmed out to someone else and the human race sits in the waiting room waiting for the word.

Maharaji empowered me by showing me how to practice Knowledge.
He didn't take anything away, he added.

You ask me what anything I have said has anything to do with real life and real love. The answer is: everything.

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Date: Fri, Feb 11, 2000 at 20:53:00 (GMT)
From: cqg
Email: None
To: Shp
Subject: God bless everyone here ... especially Scrooge?
Message:
Sandy, you say: 'Maharaji empowered me by showing me how to practice Knowledge.
He didn't take anything away'

He did, you know. Or rather, you have allowed him, (temporarily) to take away your search for truth.

You've stopped looking elsewhere for it.

You think you've found it.

And you've stopped searching, thinking yourself to be in a position of superior 'spiritual' growth. Hence your 'blessings'.

P.S. Try looking up the original etymology of the word 'bless'. I think you'll be surprised.

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Date: Fri, Feb 11, 2000 at 15:09:45 (GMT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Shp
Subject: God bless everyone here
Message:
SHP: This 'ancient' knowledge crap has got to stop.....

You said, '...letting the 'experts' do our birthing, legal work, education, religion, doctor us....There was a time when ordinary people knew how to deal with all the rights of passage with a little help from someone who had been there before us.'

Yes, you are right there was a time when 'witch doctors' were the law of the land and the average life expectancy was something on the order of 30 years!!!!

Modern medicine, like it or not, has increased our life expectancies as well as the quality of that life. The ancients had NOTHING on us in this regard.

Modern education and reasoned/critical thought is what taught those doctors, who increased our life expectancies. It taught the electronics wizards that design the equipment that those doctors use to successfully diagnose those things that reduce our life expectancy. It taught the technicians how to produce the discrete components that go into that equipment. It taught the miners how to acquire the rare-earths that are absolutely required to produce the semiconductor components themselves.

Yeah, doctors and education have done nothing to improve your lot in life..... All they've done is make it possible for you to live longer and with, hopefully, the highest quality of life. Hey, M doesn't seem to mind technology and all it provides.... HIS AIRPLANE DIDN'T MATERIALIZE OUT OF THIN AIR, ya know!!!!

BTW, which 'doctors' are researching the 'movement' of energy between people and things? You said they were and that they were doctors, so who are they? Where is their research published?

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Date: Fri, Feb 11, 2000 at 16:32:04 (GMT)
From: Shp
Email: None
To: Mike
Subject: God bless everyone here
Message:
Healing Essence by Dr. Mitchell L. Gaynor is a good start for reference material.

And as for longevity, there are cultures like the Hunzas and some of the Rainforest people who live well over 100, stay healthy and active all their lives, and maintain youthful vigor.

They did not stray as far away from the Garden of Eden as the rest of us. So don't tell me that I can thank scientists and the modern world for screwing up nature and then synthesizing it, but inadvertantly causing some side effects that are deadly.

I was born at dawn, but not this morning.

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Date: Mon, Feb 14, 2000 at 15:07:00 (GMT)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Shp
Subject: Hunzas
Message:
I thought the Hunzas' longevity was debunked as a lot of them had lied about their age to avoid being recruited in some war or either. The lies were recorded in some official records and the rest is (or actually isn't) history.

John.

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Date: Fri, Feb 11, 2000 at 19:00:13 (GMT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Shp
Subject: Shp.....
Message:
SHP: The key word is 'some' of the hunza's etc. What is the AVERAGE? That is the number that counts, not the exceptions. Look up the AVERAGE life span of the peoples that you mention. Native Americans lived as close to nature as the hunza's or anyone else and their AVERAGE lifespan was well UNDER 40 years until modern medicine was made available.

SHP, there are people who smoke and drink and everything else that live well over 100 years. They are exceptions to the rule, not the rule!

Thank you, for answering my question about which 'doctors.' I will, indeed, read the book. If it's based on sound scientific studies, it will hold my attention I assure you.

BTW, I wasn't impuning your desire to 'get closer to nature.' I just think that we must 'temper' our descriptions and thoughts on these subjects with a bit of realism. Remember, penicillin is a 'natural' substance...... as is STRYCHNINE! Just because it comes from nature, doesn't make it 'good!' Just because it's synthesized in a lab, doesn't automatically make it 'bad,' either. I'd be the first to admit that some of the best medicines we have came from nature. The problem with taking medicines ONLY IN THEIR NATURAL STATE is that 'potency' cannot be assured nor can dosages. Case in point, digitalis. It comes from the foxglove, but if you were to take an ounce of one plant and compare it to an ounce of another that was growing elsewhere, they would be WAY different. In terms of digitalis, this could and likely would be DEADLY! Penicillin, btw, would be another GREAT example of this, as well.

You know, I don't care where a real 'miracle' drug came from...... it's a miracle, nonetheless...... it saves lives! All I know is that those who have been educated to recognize those 'miracles,' trained to understand 'why' those miracles work and to DO SOMETHING with them consistently, are the ones that are saving the most lives and increasing the average lifespan of individuals NOW!

As to 'screwing up the world,' are you aware that native americans (and others) on many occasions messed up their local ecology so badly that they had to move elsewhere? There is evidence of this all over the place in Arizona, New Mexico and Mexico. So, just because they lived 'close to the land,' doesn't mean they couldn't make mistakes (THEY DID!) or had some 'magical' understanding given to them by the 'great spirits'.... they screwed-up, too! Any other portrayal is historically inaccurate. Yes, they DID pay attention when 'mother earth' told them they were messing up..... they HAD TO MOVE! They tried, sometimes unsuccessfully, to keep it from happening twice. They learned from their mistakes just like we are learning from ours. The ONE difference, we MUST learn faster because we now have the capability of 'making mistakes' on a global-level, where our anscestors could, and did, only have an effect on the 'local' level. Again, SHP, please don't 'mystify' something that isn't mystical, at all. To 'mystify' it is to denigrate the very brains that these folks used to LEARN from their mistakes!

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Date: Fri, Feb 11, 2000 at 02:10:10 (GMT)
From: Amari
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: God bless everyone here
Message:
Guru Shp has a monster-sized ego disguised as humility. Blessings can be sent silently and still be as effective, but Guru Shp wants it to be known that He sends His blessings, and if we trash him, so be it, let us deny his benificence, for He is oceanic in His feelings of goodwill. Radio Free Shp. Sounds like Guru Shp is atoning for some feeling(s) of guilt, about what who knows and cares, but it is an inflated display of His false humility. Talk about blowing Holy Smoke.
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Date: Fri, Feb 11, 2000 at 11:52:40 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Amari
Subject: Beware Amari
Message:
For the wrath of shp is mighty.

Reject ye not his word till ye have tasted his fruits, for it is written, 'by his fruits shall you know him.'

For in these dark times the lord comes in many disguises, and we blind mortals know not the mysteries of his ways.

For is it not written, '...and the lion shall lay down with the shp.'

Anthias Prophet of the South Circular.

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Date: Fri, Feb 11, 2000 at 16:42:41 (GMT)
From: Shp
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Beware Amari
Message:
For the wrath of shp is mighty.

~What rash? How did you know about my RASH?

Reject ye not his word till ye have tasted his fruits, for it is written, 'by his fruits shall you know him.'

~100% organic, no BHA, pesticides, herbicides, genetics, etc.

For in these dark times the lord comes in many disguises, and we blind mortals know not the mysteries of his ways.

~Me included.

For is it not written, '...and the lion shall lay down with the shp.'

~Cute.

Anthias Prophet of the South Circular.'

Sanford, your brother

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Date: Fri, Feb 11, 2000 at 03:33:08 (GMT)
From: Shp
Email: None
To: Amari
Subject: God bless everyone here
Message:
We could all sit in our respective homes and think real hard and learn to project everything being said here instead of saying it. Why do you separate me from everyone else for what I have said and persecute me? So much is said here and what do you want to censor? A blessing. You are so attuned to negativity that when something positive comes along, it is so strange to you that you have a bad reaction to it. I understand. Thoughts can be transmitted as well as blessings. Why don't you tell everyone on this site to shut up and silently send out their thoughts and ideas into the cosmos where we can pick it all up? Then we would not have to sit in front of these damned CRTs and soak up so many EMFs and get our asses flat from sitting and get CTS in our wrists.

I know that blessings can be transmitted silently. So just for you, forget about what I said, OK? Maybe somebody else liked reading it.

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Date: Fri, Feb 11, 2000 at 04:00:55 (GMT)
From: Brian
Email: brian@tigerriver.com
To: Shp
Subject: Thankyou Tiny Tim
Message:
We could all sit in our respective homes and think real hard and learn to project everything being said here instead of saying it.

Right. In your dreams and pretenses, SHP. Although, personally, I wish you would practise what you preach. Sit in your room. Think real hard. Imagine angels and fairies tending to your needs, paying your rent, sparing the rest of us from your lunacy.

You may profess grandeur here, but it requires that you use your mortal powers to babble via text rather than just sending stupid thoughts out to an undeserving world.

Amari had you nailed. Dead on.

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Date: Fri, Feb 11, 2000 at 16:59:36 (GMT)
From: Shp
Email: None
To: Brian
Subject: Thankyou Tiny Tim
Message:
'We could all sit in our respective homes and think real hard and learn to project everything being said here instead of saying it.'

Right. In your dreams and pretenses, SHP. Although, personally, I wish you would practise what you preach. Sit in your room. Think real hard. Imagine angels and fairies tending to your needs, paying your rent, sparing the rest of us from your lunacy.

~I find it common that some exers who respond to my posts don't have very good reading comprehension. I said that thing about
thought above in response to A's comment that blessings can be sent without words. I responded that anything can sent sent without words. Not grandeur, just a response. I work just like you and have all the same basic needs to cover. What the hell are you talking about there?

You may profess grandeur here, but it requires that you use your mortal powers to babble via text rather than just sending stupid thoughts out to an undeserving world.

Amari had you nailed. Dead on.

~Here is another thing that I constantly run into here. Someone disagrees with something. Instead of saying 'I disagree' and working from that place, insults fly, words like wrong and right come into play, and JUDGEMENT rules. We aren't each other's judges. But you can play that if you want. Just remember the powers that be - wahtever or whoever you attribute it to - will judge you as you judge others and forgive you as you forgive others.

~You can argue with someone's concepts and even say they are wrong and prove them wrong if you can, but you cannot argue with someone's experience. It is what it is.
So you agree with Amari. Go for it.

~By the way, interesting aside: You mentioned paying the rent up above...Charles Dickens wrote 'A Christmas Carol' under great pressure to pay his rent, or so the story goes. Necessity is the mother of invention. Rest in peace, Frank.

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Date: Fri, Feb 11, 2000 at 20:20:21 (GMT)
From: Brian
Email: brian@tigerriver.com
To: Shp
Subject: Not at all
Message:
I find it common that some exers who respond to my posts don't have very good reading comprehension. I said that thing about thought above in response to A's comment that blessings can be sent without words. I responded that anything can sent sent without words.

I read that and understood you to be saying that. Unfortunately, it's bullshit.

While you might profess those words to be true, the fact is you don't live by them. You post here, rather than telepathically sending your thoughts out. I consider that as just another example of the Happy Land views you express here - totally groundless.

You also chose to make a showing of your amazing love and tolerance in a very public way, while pretending piousness. It's a bad fit to those who don't view life through your pretensions.

You're welcome to hold those beliefs if they make you happy, just as Prempal Rawat is welcome to believe that he's some special being. Neither of you can expect to share those illusions publicly and not be ridiculed for them.

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Date: Fri, Feb 11, 2000 at 04:05:31 (GMT)
From: Runamok
Email: None
To: Brian
Subject: Tiny Tim's Dead, Brian (nt)
Message:
x
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Date: Fri, Feb 11, 2000 at 15:28:07 (GMT)
From: Brian
Email: brian@tigerriver.com
To: Runamok
Subject: Tiny Tim's Dead? Blasphemy!
Message:
That is simply not true!

In the book, Scrooge Rawat was visited by Hans' ghost. Hans pointed to his great wealth and the suffering of the unenlightened world, and warned Rawat that he could remember Hans' name all he wanted at death, but he was still going to have to return to the world and make the payments on his mansions.

Scrooge came to his senses, sold a Rolls, and paid for SHP's brain transplant. I did a book report on it in school...

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Date: Fri, Feb 11, 2000 at 21:01:40 (GMT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Brian
Subject: BWAH HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!
Message:
Owwwwwwwwwwww, Brian...... I've got a darned neck ache (pinched nerve) and this made me laugh so hard that I was in excrutiating pain the entire time! Well done, Well done! More..... More..... please tell us the entire story! :-)
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Date: Fri, Feb 11, 2000 at 11:46:49 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Runamok
Subject: Not in our hearts Run' (sniff) (nt)
Message:
sniff, sob, splutter, sniff.
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Date: Fri, Feb 11, 2000 at 14:52:45 (GMT)
From: Tiny Tim
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: God bless us, everyone!
Message:
Or was that, 'God bless us one and all!' Whatever. 'And God bless Sandford Pass!' Seriously, folks. The man might be over the top, but the heart's still in the right place. I think, anyway.
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Date: Fri, Feb 11, 2000 at 18:12:15 (GMT)
From: Runamok
Email: None
To: Tiny Tim
Subject: Can I have the ukelele when you do croaK? nt
Message:
C'mon, please.
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Date: Fri, Feb 11, 2000 at 18:53:30 (GMT)
From: Tiny Tim
Email: None
To: Runamok
Subject: You can have my crutches
Message:
And be nice to Jim. God bless him. And bless us all, everyone!
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Date: Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 20:43:42 (GMT)
From: cqg
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: all right then, let's not talk about god ...
Message:
NIHILISM.

There's nothing to it.

'Nihilism is the characteristic value-disease of our times. The word comes from the Latin root for 'nothing', with more ancient connexions with the word for 'trifle'. Nihilism is the general phenomenon of human values having no evocatory power, in that questions about meaning fail to yield answers that are trustworthy or in the truth, but rather a void of senseless silence. While episodes of nihilism could be identified throughout our species' cultural history, the label is usually applied to the crisis of valuation that now grips the planet's pre-eminent culture, the so-called 'Western' or Euro-American culture.

The concept of nihilism receives its most penetrating analysis in the work of the German genius Friedrich Nietzsche (1844-1900). Writing in the twilight of the nineteenth century, Nietzsche sketched an overall theory of value, in which the human animal invents value matrices with which to survive within, and perhaps to dominate, his physical and psychological environments. Nihilism is the result of a faulty value-system turning back on itself and its human creators, ultimately devaluing itself and causing the experience of nothingness on the many levels of human consciousness.

Specifically, Nietzsche accuses the platonic/christian schema of being inadequate to the needs of superior human beings, in that it promotes an anaemic and unaesthetic worldview. This worldview is based on the illusion of another, more real world than the one we inhabit on earth, a supersensible world for which our actions here become merely derivative rituals. Plato's Ideas and the Christian God become the guarantors of all meaning for our lives. But Nietzsche maintained that this was a fiction that
detoured us from being human, and that made men and women into slaves fettered to a herd mentality that strangled our profound creative urges.

Nietzsche saw this platonic/christian worldview coming apart at the seems in the twentieth and twentyfirst centuries. The results, he said, would be an increasingly frantic search for new sources of meaning by the European mind, including cataclysmic wars and the pursuit of ever more powerful forms of intoxication. The history of our century, with its global conflicts and increasing chemical, sexual, and materialistic orgiastics are instructive in this regard.

For even if we indulge in ever more intense means to pleasure, behind it all still looms the life-shattering question: Why?, the question that in the presence of nihilism admits no answer. Why exist, why strive, why love and create? Why not untruth? Why not nothing rather than something, why not pain rather than pleasure? Nietzsche's formulation is that the nihilist is the person who judges the world as it is, that it ought not to exist, and that in this light our lives are essentially in vain, sealed off from any 'ought', from any meaning. In other words, our value-systems do not allow themselves to exercise power or attempt to seek and create happiness, but instead are mired in resentment and endless rationalization. We are machines that are constructed so as to inform ourselves that we have no purpose and no beauty.

Nietzsche saw nihilism as both the great curse and the great opportunity. Man, he said, might very well destroy himself because of nihilism, either through physical destruction or by turning to a nihilistic religion in which man would die spiritually. But he also hoped that perhaps a new race of philosophers would arise, who could both look into the sun of nihilism without blinking and who could legislate a new order of value, new 'tablets', Nietzsche called them, for the strong creative minority to live by, values that would serve their creators rather than enslave and demean them. This effort Nietzsche called the revaluation of values, and he went mad in the effort to shape the course of this revaluing.

It remains for us to be honest and cheerful in the light of nihilism. We are all nihilists--those who deny it have not yet awakened to the necessary evolution of their own diseased value structures, or refuse to see out of cowardice. Those of us who look over the edge and peer into the void must call up new tablets of values out of ourselves. It cannot be done so long as we are human. For Nietzsche, at least, the answer lay in becoming more than human. He postulated the Ubermensch, the so called Superman, who could make meaning for himself, a creature as different from the human as we are from the ape.

Unless we become Supermen, we are really nothing at all, and are destined to remain so. As to how the Superman can be brought about, Nietzsche and his alter-ego Zarathustra give us hints, but nothing more. It is up to a new race of philosophers with hammers to teach themselves the Superman.

Brandon Floyd
President, ANA

For more information, please write:
The American Nihilism Association
3260 Wilson Blvd.
Suite 12
Arlington, VA 22210

Homepage here

All emphases - in bold - not in original document. (I thort they woz importanter, like).

[P.S. If you would like me to express my own opinions on these links that I frequently direct you toward, feel free to ask for my opinions.]

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Date: Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 19:24:49 (GMT)
From: Powerman
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Dumbest Things Guru Ever Said-What's Your Favorite
Message:
What's the dumbest thing you ever heard the Guru say?

Here's mine. It isn't a quote, just a loose paraphrase. It was in a satsang in the very early seventies.

He was trying to make the point of how receiving knowledge and following Guru Maharaji was like 'returning' to something, presumably the 'primordial vibration'. He compared it to leaving your house in the morning to go to work and coming home after a long day, and how nice it was to return home.

It went something like this... 'It's like, Premies, this knowledge is so beautiful, and it's like, coming home to that wonderful bliss. And it's like, you go out and you're gone to work for a long day, and then you come home and it's like, it's so wonderful. It's like, everything is just there, and it's like, Premies, this knowledge is like coming home, just coming home to that wonderful bliss. It's like it's always there, and we're the ones who leave. Knowledge doesn't leave us, we leave knowledge...'

I remember reading this in one of his printed satsangs when I was trying to understand what it all was, and thinking how I really must be daft because I didn't understand the big thing about coming home after being gone to work for one day. I couldn't possibly understand any feeling at all connected with that. I thought it was just me.

But I suspect there's some much dumber things he said. I vaguely remember Jim posting a fairly recent quote where maharaji compared knowledge to not being able to find his cufflinks and how we get consumed with the world, and how he was consumed with the 'world' because he couldn't find his cufflinks. Just very, very dumb.

Anyone?

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Date: Fri, Feb 11, 2000 at 19:31:43 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: Powerman
Subject: '... go sit on a block of ice!'
Message:
m was talking about how some people think that meditating is for calming down. He then shouted

'IF YOU WANT TO CALM DOWN, GO SIT ON A BLOCK OF ICE!'.

He seemed very angry and very uncalm.

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Date: Fri, Feb 11, 2000 at 10:24:45 (GMT)
From: toby4u
Email: None
To: Powerman
Subject: an embarrising one
Message:
in Belgium

Marolyn was trying to Quote from Don Quichote and named
his servant 'Sancho Panchez'

Then the big One came (M) after her and gracefully corrected
her.
He said :

and of course his Name was 'Pancho Sanchez'

Somebody behind the stage who was as dumb as his wife must have
told him that.

The servants name was indeed 'Sancho Pansa',

but what can one expect of an uneducated bunch of suckers anyway

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Date: Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 21:44:09 (GMT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Powerman
Subject: Dumbest Things Guru Ever Said-What's Your Favorite
Message:
How's about the difference between vegetarians and meat eaters. Remember? Vegetarians suck water and meat eaters lick it up. That's why humans are supposed to be vegetarians, because we suck instead of lick. Heh heh heh.

Don't look at me. The master's the one who said it, not me. Hahahahahahaha.

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Date: Sun, Feb 13, 2000 at 17:17:25 (GMT)
From: reader
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: Dumbest Things Guru Ever Said-What's Your Favorite
Message:
Actually I believe it was Joseph Campbell
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Date: Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 20:52:56 (GMT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Powerman
Subject: Mine's pretty simple......
Message:
PMan: Mine isn't quite as funny, but it does qualify as the dumbest thing I ever heard him say:

'I can show you GOD, face to face!'

Not only was it dumb for him to say, it was dumb for me to 'believe!'

By the way, if you could get the EXACT quote, I think the guy posting down below, who says that M is articulate, might get an eye-opener! If I ever hear another, 'It's Like,' I think I'll scream!

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Date: Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 22:41:08 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: heller@bc1.com
To: Mike
Subject: I like the God ones, myself
Message:
1) 'You look at Christ, for instance. And he came and was Perfect Master. According to the belief, he had enough power that after he was crucified, he came back. So, you think twice about this and you figure, if somebody has got a power -- and it was incredible as to be able to to be crucified and them come back again -- you can definitely figure out that he must ahve the power to sort of take the whole Earth and jiggle it once in a plastic bag. Give it a little twist, all us teensy-weensy things go falling into this palstic bag. He opens it up and says, 'Listen, you thing in there. Realize the purpose of your life, aim of your life. This is it. Period.'

*****

2)Q - To whom should we give our devotion?

A - Guru.

Q - Shouldn't we give our devotion to God?

A - What is God?

Q - Well, Guru is a personification of God in this Earth, right?

A - I told you yesterday: Who is Guru? The highest manifestation of God is Guru. So when Guru is here, God is here, to whom will you give your devotion? **** When God has come here, then what is the need to give devotion to God there?

*****

3) The Lord Himself reincarnates, reincarnates, reincarnates Himself for the very purpose of saving us. And we do not even realize who gave us the authority to refuse Him! Who are we anyway? From which field do we come that we can reject, that we can refuse, that we can deny our Lord? This is something that
I cannot answer. And we do it every time!. Because we have got a stupid ego. ..... We just don't know that we are His puppets.

***[a lot of stuff about how he could suck all the atmosphere away, etc.]

4) So when Lord comes to us, accept Him. And Lord is here. He has always been here. How can we make a statment, 'The Lord is gone', and then turn aroudn and say, 'Lord is omnipresent'? We are contradicting ourselves. He has always been here. He has always been saving us, but it's us who pull out of His shelter.

*******

5) What is it? Something for people to understand: that there is a personality like God. Adn without him we are just pieces of junk, nothing else. And it's like, somebody has to really look up to it, you know. It's like, God is THERE, all the time. But for a person to see Him and underwstand Him, anyway he ahs to look UP to Him. But it's like, God is giving us all these indications of His presence. You know? If he does...

Look. The thing is, if somebody goes and does soemthing good, he will go and goof around all Arizona probably, saying ' I have done something good.' But if he does something bad, and he blows it [ed. like predicting the dawning of the millenium], you know, it means he just really blew it. Then he is going to blame it on somebody else; not on himself. So if God does something good for people, people will never understand it. People don't!

*****

6) 'Why do we have this human body? To know this, we will have to take the shelter of Guru Maharja Ji. Guru Maharj Ji knows all. Guru Maharaji is Brahma (creator). Guru Maharaji is Vishnu (Operator). Guru Maharjai is Shiva (Destoryer of illusion and ego). And above all, Guru Mahraji is the Supremest Lord in person before us.'

******

7) Who is Guru? The highest manifestation of God is Guru. So when Guru is here, God is here, to whom will you give your devotion?

******

8)Guru Maharj Ji knows all. Guru Maharaji is Brahma (creator). Guru Maharaji is Vishnu (Operator). Guru Maharjai is Shiva (Destoryer of illusion and ego). And above all, Guru Mahraji is the Supremest Lord in person before us.

*******

9) I have come so powerful. I have come for the world. Whenever the great come,the worldly oppose them. Again I have come and you are not listening. Every ear should hear that the saviour of humanity has come. There should be no chance for anyone to say that they haven't heard of Guru Maharaj Ji. Those who have come to me are already saved. Now its your duty to save others. Shout it on the streets. Why be shy?

******

10) When human beings forget the religion of humanity, the Supreme Lord incarnates. He takes a body and comes on this earth ......

When human beings forget this one way, then our Lord, who is the Lord of the whole universe, comes in human body to give us practical Knowlege, ....

But, most ironically, we don't appreciate the Lord when He comes in His human body on this earth.

Similarly, a Satguru, a Perfect Master, a Supreme Lord who is existing in the present time, can give you the practical Knowledge of the real thing...

So God Himself comes to give practical Knowledge of His divinity, of His inner self, which is self-effulgent light, eternal light, all-pervading light. **** And the Supreme Master, the Satguru, gives practical Knowledge of that light, irrespective of caste, creed, color, religion or sex, to those human individuals who bow before him with reverence, with love and with faith.
11)Just see, today this word 'guru' has become a ridiculous term, a sort of a joke and people do not know what is a 'guru'. When I fly a plane in India, I often listen to the radio in the cockpit. There are talks going on between various pilots in the vicinity. Somebody would address: ''Well Guru, how are you?' Because they do not know the true meaning and implications. They don't understand the glory of a guru and Master. Because they have forgotten altogether. They have made such pseudo-guru who have put the whole system to disrepute. For instance, in schools they don't know the correct meaning of a couplet like:

The radiance radiated from my beloved is of suds an amazing hue ...
They say, 'oh yes, because Kabir saw a sort of redness...'

But what sort of redness was it? Such so-called gurus have marred the reputation of this institution. It has been ruined. Actually the guru is such a personality about whom it is said:

>i> I bow down to the lotusfeet of my Guru Maharaji, who is the ocean of mercy and is actually Hari (God) himself in human form,
And whose words are like sunbeams to disperse the accumulated darkness of gross ignorance.

So Tulsidas says that he bows down to such a Guru Maharaji, the Master, who is really Hari (Supreme Power) in the form of man. So the main thing to understand here is that he bows down to the feet of that guru whose utterances, whose expressions are able to illuminate. And what is that which is illuminated by his words? It is the heart which is illuminated. His words are able to sever and dispel the spidery web of illusion, infatuation and ignorance. This I have seen myself and realized in my own heart. Yes, in my heart!

12) And so premies, the Perfect Master comes, and he comes in the human body. I mean, he doesn’t have to. All he has to do is have a body that’s as huge as the world – and even bigger, as the universe – and then pick up the whole world on his little finger and say, ‘You guys want to live, or should I blow you away ?’ He could do that, because we call him Almighty. And if we call him Almighty, it’s a jazz for him to do this. It wouldn’t take him anything. Because he’s perfect. And he could just very well do that and say, ‘Look. If you don’t realize this Knowledge, all I’m going to do is – boomp ! – and you are never going to know what hit you’. But he doesn’t say that.

Why? He bears up with everything in this world. Look at us humans; look at the people of this world. Every time he comes, they say, ‘Forget it, he is not the one; he can’t be the one. He doesn’t have Knowledge. This is some crazy thing.’ And I mean, if really this ever happened, that the Almighty, the All Perfect, just picked up the whole world in his hand and said, ‘Should I kick you?’….
He doesn’t have to go to any person and say, ‘Should I kick you ?’ If he says, ‘Should I kick your world ?’ you’d never know what hit you, and you are going to fly somewhere else. But he doesn’t. And it’s really beautiful.

...Now this ego. Though it appears to be of little consequence, but even if a devotee is conscious of the fact -'l know,' it is akin to the devotee's crucifixion. If you are plagued with a little bit of arrogance that 'you know', you are gone. You are finished. You know nothing. Period. Again you have to turn to the Master and pray to him to give you prudence - 'Maharaji, please give me wisdom. I even don't know that as a human being I should not be egoistic. This is the problem. As a human being, I don't know how to conduct myself as a devotee. This too please teach me. Please let me know.'


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Date: Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 21:00:07 (GMT)
From: cqg
Email: None
To: Mike
Subject: Mine's pretty simple......
Message:


...it's like ... that fart .... that spacesuit ...

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Date: Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 21:14:24 (GMT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: cqg
Subject: AYEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE! (nt)
Message:
BWAH HA HA HA HA
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Date: Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 22:10:07 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: all
Subject: A good one: The aim? to longer be anything...
Message:
Elan Vital magazine-Volum 3, Issue 3. Autumn 1979

'One should dedicate one's life to the Lotus Feet of the Perfect master of the time. Dedicate. then he will take you to that right place. Because you have dedicated your life you are no longer anythingand you belong to him, so he is responsible for taking you.

We were dogs!!

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Date: Fri, Feb 11, 2000 at 20:35:39 (GMT)
From: cqg
Email: None
To: SB
Subject: The aim? ... you belong to him (minus soul?) [nt]
Message:
'...and you belong to him, so he is responsible for taking you...'
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Date: Sun, Feb 13, 2000 at 22:21:37 (GMT)
From: KMDARLING
Email: darlingwave@aol.com
To: everyone and new exes
Subject: How about the mother rat's ass?
Message:
I wasn't actually there, having already split the scene, but my girlfriend told me something Margie said while ranting at premies, I think at a K review or
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Date: Sun, Feb 13, 2000 at 22:48:13 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: KMDARLING
Subject: Could you post 'How about the mother...' again?
Message:
it seems to be cut off short
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Date: Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 19:21:09 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: He said. Is it true?
Message:
M warns of the danger of becoming an Initiator if one has not surrendered to him completely

But the thing is that the service of initiator is demanded on the highest standard of Knowledge realizations, so the person is not confused. Because if you are confused, then it's better to walk away from it all. Because I'll tell you one thing from my practical experience. Every person that I have seen who was a full initiator, and then got confused, just got completely disastrous. From that point on, they were just leading a disastrous life. Because mind then begins to actually manifest.

A simple example of this is that the higher you are, the harder you fall. If you are just a little glass and yet fall from a short distance, what is done? Maybe you can pick it and put some glue on it and put it together. But the higher you go, the worse it's going to be. And that means, when you shatter, it's going to be impossible to put you back together.

Guru Maharaj Ji, IDP Satsang, Malibu, January 10, 1977

In his book. A broken glass, whow. Some of you may say by looking at the date that it's old and that doesn't count today. Now I ask, Is he saying the same today? Yes he is. Perhaps with other words... Analogies? He uses them IMO in excess, to say, little by little while the new person is sucked in, I got you, you are hooked. The guru that came up with such a dirty tactics to suppossedly teach whatever or make a living, oppressing people in such a way, so negative and demeaning, deserves one of the biggest LEMON awards.

No justification. This guru, M,- i feel like cursing but I wont- is still saying the same today. I thought about it while still a in denial: Devotion is the final and definitive chain until you decide to brake free, that is. Some of his remarks to make you atay that I remeber come to mind. Where can you go if you leave K=me? This is the only real thing. -you are 'dammed' if you miss it- You want to know yourself? becomes sooner or later that wanting to know is not the important subject around Knowledge as knowing, loving and adoring-in that order- the massanger is. The massanger is IT. Maharaji's knowledge version got through the years some make up work thrown over, to make it look nice, as said before here somewhere, to 'reinvent' the scam, to make it fit to his occassion, and even that some disagree the reality underneath is ugly. The bad wolf robber of souls, makers of zombies. The one who needs servants in the name of Knowledge. A premie told me last night: He is the PUREST HOLIEST SOUL in this world, and how we come to this world solely to experience devotion,and I meditated 2 hous straight today and I feel so good, and m did stablish peace around the world, because he is so many countries, AND I just listened and when he stopped I said: In your opinion. I saw his face saying I feel like smacking you. i left quickly.

The one and only biggest cult guru I know. A tinny little minuscule 'god' who lied, lies and we can expect will continue on, maybe until his premies stop playing their devotee role, supporting his greedy power controlling guru crap.

Oh the seventies! A nightmare. No, today too. Premies, come and visit more often. It's fun to be out! What you have is no freedom

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Date: Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 23:20:43 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: heller@bc1.com
To: SB
Subject: You are so right, SB
Message:
Thanks for puttiing that quote up. It's joining my collection for sure. I remember exactly how this impacted me. I remember like it was yesterday.

I was living in the Calgary ashram then. By this time I was having really tormetuous 'devotion swings'. One day I'd be absolutely blase and cynical about being a premie. Didn't want to do service (well, I hardly ever wanted to do service, even in my go-for-it moments. Evolutionary psychology has taught me that I'm lazy by nature. :) ), thought about girls all the time -- BAD! -- and just skated along. Then some initiator would come to town, I'd notice how much better their food was and I'd get all reinspired to want to surrender. :) Or I'd be giving satsang myself and, in a pretty transparent grab for attention, now that I think back on it, I'd talk myself and anyone listening, if I could, into making the moment profoundly spiritual. You know, 'Maharaji's right here! Oh my Lord, take me in this moment! This breath! Happy New Breath, Kimosabe!'. Sometimes, as I explained before, I did this to impress girls too. Go figure.

Anyway, some initiator came to town and somehow I got to read this 'secret'I knew that sooner or later I was going to have to step uo the plate and put in an intiator application. Everyone was doing it. In fact, at that point, Maharaji pretty well had indicated that that was what he expected of his ashramies. But I also knew that I was prone to fall; I'd masturbate every couple of months (highly sexed, eh?), I'd skip out of my job searches (always looking for new work because of the festivals we'd keep going to) and go see movies. Hey, here's a tip for any current premies: don't go see Monty Python's 'Life of Brian'.

So this quote really got to me. Wasn't it inevitable that I'd continue to fall? But what if I got to be an initiator and somehow became even higher than I'd ever been, a proper vessel for the Lord's grace?

Well, it spooked me. I'd like to talk with Maharaji about that some day.

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Date: Sat, Feb 12, 2000 at 13:29:59 (GMT)
From: VP
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Jim, you're killin' me!
Message:
Jim,
Oh, you're killing me! Your posts about your experiences in the cult are SO funny. You should write a book or a screenplay about it all. I know it wasn't funny to go through it, but the way you write it is hilarious. You are a highly creative person.

I can't understand why you still want to talk to Maharaji even now that you know what he is all about. Are you serious about that?--wanting to talk to him, I mean. Or was that just an off the cuff remark? Since it's never gonna happen, (BM doesn't have enough integrity to face you and answer any questions, as you well know) why don't you write the scenario here? Jim talks with Maharaji--that would be a riot to read.

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Date: Sat, Feb 12, 2000 at 17:26:08 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: VP
Subject: NO, talking about him
Message:
is helpful to the premies, for them to learn what we think about him. You funny wonderful apple...Thanks for your comments? How are your russian lessons going?
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Date: Sat, Feb 12, 2000 at 19:29:32 (GMT)
From: VP
Email: None
To: SB
Subject: NO, talking about him
Message:
I think you might have me confused with someone else as I have never had Russian lessons. Wish I had, though!

I agree it's helpful to talk about Maharaji, but I was asking Jim why he would want to talk TO Maharaji.

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Date: Sat, Feb 12, 2000 at 13:44:17 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: heller@bc1.com
To: VP
Subject: Jim, you're killin' me!
Message:
Thanks Veep,

No, I don't really expect to ever talk with him. Mind you, stranger things have happened. And I could try calling him again. But, no, I jsut said that.

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Date: Sat, Feb 12, 2000 at 14:07:02 (GMT)
From: VP
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Jim, you're killin' me!
Message:
But wouldn't it be funny if you wrote it? Maybe not today if you aren't feeling well, but some time in the future. Give it a whole new thread. You really are a good writer.

I have to go take the kids to baseball tryouts now and then I have a black tie dinner tonight--shit.

Feel better soon and enjoy your Nyquil

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Date: Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 20:58:31 (GMT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: SB
Subject: Can I ask a question?
Message:
SB: In your quote, M refers to a thing called a 'FULL initiator' (emphasis mine). I never knew there was a 'partial' or 'incomplete' initiator as opposed to a 'full.' Could you enlighten me on this????? he he he he :-)

THAT's IT!!!!!!!!!! JM must have been an 'incomplete' inititator, that's why he fell from grace....... he he he (sorry JM, I just HAD to say it!) :-)

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Date: Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 20:07:47 (GMT)
From: Haldor
Email: None
To: SB
Subject: He said. Is it true?
Message:
I left too for five years and felt fine. M says if you stop practicing what will happen, nothing. You'll have an O.K. life.
I came back not because life was terrible without meditation but because I wanted to pursue the quest of going within myself,beyond the mind,into silence and tranquility. Not into snot Anth but the centre of my being. I enjoy that and it's my right to enjoy that. I'm not defending anything here other than that decision.We all have the right to choose our own pathways don't we?Cults are just baby religions which are often more unpolluted, more honest than what comes hundreds of years after the teacher leaves.I'm not trying to satsang anyone just expressing a different perspective. You'll be glad to know that Ive had enough of this. Enjoy yourselves.
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Date: Fri, Feb 11, 2000 at 03:29:03 (GMT)
From: Well said
Email: None
To: Haldor
Subject: Hal
Message:
In desperation to prove their position they show contempt for yours. A narrow understanding of the human experience is exposed by such disrespect for the experience of others.

True understanding of life is not a given just because one is given life. Neither is it a given that one would understand Knowledge just because it is received.

A derivative of humility and respect is tolerance. That such intolerance is acceptable, is incongruent to a free-thinking mind.

If Knowledge wasn't for them it shouldn't be for anyone. A chauvinism spawned by unconscious arrogance.

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Date: Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 22:10:46 (GMT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Haldor
Subject: Rotten Vegetables
Message:
M says if you stop practicing what will happen, nothing.

Ever hear of the rotten vegetables satsang, Hal? I don't have the exact quote but I'm sure Jim or JM can provide it if you want yet another lesson in how Maharaji contradicts himself. He may have said that nothing will happen but he also once said that not practicing Kowledge is like having a whole truckload of rotten vegetables in your innards, or something like that.

Want the exact quote?

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Date: Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 21:12:26 (GMT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Haldor
Subject: So, the Jim Jones cult
Message:
Haldor: Jonestown was just a 'more honest and pure, baby religion' that hasn't been 'polluted,' yet?

That's not exactly my take on it!

Except for the request to drink cyanide, I defy you to show me one substantive difference between your cult and his..... remember, I said SUBSTANTIVE!

Could it be leaders? No, they both have absolute authoritarian rule.

Could it be dogma? No, they both have plenty of that.

So, what's the difference? Hey, Jones started out as a really nice guy, according to most reports. So 'nice-ness' doesn't count as a substantive difference, either.

I think, if you look at the real definition of a cult, there will be seen NO differences, at all! None, nada, zero! Cults aren't 'baby religions' Haldor, they are dehumanizing, debilitating and immoral (in the truest sense of the word.... they violate your very being!) organizations that are there to remove your ability to think as an individual or to act as an individual.


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Date: Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 20:58:01 (GMT)
From: cqg
Email: None
To: Haldor
Subject: er, Haldor... (open the pod bay door, hal) ...
Message:


Haldor - just before you go.

You say you went back to M:
'to pursue the quest of going within myself, beyond the mind, into silence and tranquility.'

Fine.

But why bring the Maha back in there with you?

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Date: Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 22:49:00 (GMT)
From: Hal
Email: None
To: cqg
Subject: er, Haldor... (open the pod bay door, hal) ...
Message:
Yes good point. I'm not actually sure that I have brought him back in in the same way as before in fact I'm sure I haven't.The relationship has changed to a more distant one certainly as I don't see the guy anymore and wont go to an event,I hate those hotel rooms.I watch the occasional video at home,with my ex premie wife(who is rather indiferent to them). I find them simple (none intellectual)and useful in reminding me to have trust in life and that what I'm looking for is achievable.
I can't see myself ever being as fanatical and rigid as in the past.Anyway nice talking to you must go as I'm trying to get off this forum addiction.
love Hal
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Date: Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 19:51:44 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: SB
Subject: He said. Is it true?
Message:
Hi SB

You have a very strong spirit. Happy to see you back.

Always strange isn't it, to see them go from 'blissful' to pissed off as soon as you say the slightest doubtful comment.

I'm in a strange new place these days, not posting my email. But Katie has it and I'd love to hear how you are doing if you want to write me.

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Date: Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 21:49:57 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: He said. Is it true?
Message:
Hi Selene,

Strong spirit? i'll leave it there. It sounds good and i'll ask Katie to give me your e m address. Writing here feel so strange sometimes. :)

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Date: Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 22:22:15 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: SB
Subject: spirit, bad choice of words huh?
Message:
It just means, you are strong. You have a lot of personal strength and conviction.

what a day! and my babysitting 'job' just got cancelled :(
I'm bummed, no reality to get me outta this cyber stuff.

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Date: Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 22:27:21 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: spirit, bad choice of words huh? no!
Message:
I understood what you said and interpreted as me being strong. But only if you knew. I was being honest. Today is a bad day. far from strong. I'll write to you
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Date: Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 22:47:13 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: SB
Subject: hi again SB
Message:
No hurry about writing. Write when you can and are confortable.
I just wanted to make sure you are doing ok.
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Date: Fri, Feb 11, 2000 at 04:26:29 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: hi again
Message:
I just sent you a short mail. i'll write to you tomorrow.

:-)

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Date: Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 16:17:48 (GMT)
From: djuro raguz
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Close your eyes
Message:
Don't you feel you are ...?
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Date: Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 16:41:58 (GMT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: djuro raguz
Subject: I don't have to close my eyes to 'see' that!
Message:
DR: Do you actually believe that you must close your eyes to figure THAT out?

Look in a MIRROR..... you'll see the resemblence to yourself right away. Hint: The 'being' in the mirror looks like you because it IS you........ BIG SURPRISE, right?

Additionally, why should I need to 'feel' that I 'am' (whatever that means!) when I can look in a mirror and actually SEE that I am. OPEN YOUR EYES, this cult-think stuff is just silly!

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Date: Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 16:00:46 (GMT)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Merseyside - OT
Message:
Geez, here I am in the home of the Beatles & others. Who did the song about ferrying across the Mersey? There'll be a bit o' fun had here tonight, then off to Land of Dickens. Yippeeee!!!!

Love, Marianne

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Date: Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 23:39:14 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: Ferry 'Cross The Mersey - Gerry and the Pacemakers
Message:
March 1965

See Ferry 'Cross The Mersey

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Date: Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 14:18:43 (GMT)
From: Haldor
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Giving up the search?
Message:
This forum doesn't seem to attract comments from that many ex's considering how many there must be.It seems there is an ongoing dialogue between a small group of anti anything spiritual cynics.One person said it was difficult to find other ex's into her thing(a type of workshop).Ther must be plenty of ex's who didn't end their search for self realisation just because M didn't do it for them.I find it sad that the core group of you havn't healed your wounded hearts yet and seem totally closed to the possibility of finding that which you once so sincerely sought.Sour grapes syndrome seems common. Why do you think that because your spiritual search didn't bear fruit with M that it isn't still possible some other way? If you had done some positive work psychologically you possibly would have overcome blame and judgement.Why do you think you know it all. Noone really knows what life is,where it comes from and where we're going.Do you want to assist people to break free from M's evil spell? I f you are sincere then you'll need to offer more than juvenile, flippant,arrogant egotism. You're only throwing stones at a mirror and spitting into the wind.Someone even criticised the expression 'I feel',some of us do feel not just think think think.
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Date: Fri, Feb 11, 2000 at 07:25:34 (GMT)
From: test
Email: San Souci Via Dubbo
To: nobody
Subject: nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Fri, Feb 11, 2000 at 01:53:07 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: Haldor
Subject: Giving up the search?
Message:
I'm not an anti-spiritual cynic and don't believe in throwing out the baby with the bathwater. There's no need to end the search. Of course, it might be better to give up some types of searches. I feel that I have had expectations that were to 'high', like wanting to 'fully realize God'. It seems that sometimes people have felt better from meditating, but because they didn't 'experience God', they are disappointed. It might be better to be a bit more down to earth.

There is a bit of sour grapes in this forum, but I can understand that. I guess for some people it was the only way they could see to get out. Hopefully the hurt will heal.

I agree with you that we know very little. It's not that easy to say 'I don't know'.

I also agree that some 'juvenile, flippant, arrogant egotism' goes on here that is counter-productive. It's so easy to judge others. Sometimes attacking a cult member might push them more into the cult. Hate and intolerance are not productive.

Just a couple of hours ago, I mentioned to a 'Christian' that I'm eclectic. She started preaching to me, insinuating that the Devil is putting ideas in my head, etc. I tried to explain that being eclectic doesn't mean a rejection of Christianity. But that's not good enough for her, I'm supposed to get into her version of Christianity completely and not listen to anything else.

I agree with a lot that M has said, but also disagree with a lot. In terms of accepting 'the Knowledge' as a package deal, I just can't do it. Here's an area where I have to criticize M, he has made it out like it's a package deal and that if you leave 'it', you have to leave the whole thing. But from what I've seen, it doesn't look like he's got a special grace that supercharges the techniques. And they're not his, so if people want to practice them as shown or their own way, just one two or three of them, combined with other practices, or not at all, they can. It is their right.

One thing I do appreciate slightly, M said in the 'Unique Event' the words 'even if you do it yourself'. Well M, thank you and good bye.

For me, I would rather be eclectic, to see the good and leave the rest. Buddhism seems like a valuable thing to investigate. By Buddhism, I don't mean the religion of worshipping Buddha, the rituals, and all that. Rather, to be free of false concepts and to feel serenity. That's pretty down to earth and practical.

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Date: Fri, Feb 11, 2000 at 06:54:06 (GMT)
From: Haldor
Email: None
To: G
Subject: Giving up the search?
Message:
Thanks for a very sensible reply.Nice to know that not everyone gives up their heart to become devotees of their own egos.
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Date: Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 20:32:32 (GMT)
From: DOD
Email: None
To: Haldor
Subject: Haldor the balder but no wiser!
Message:
This site is for the true dissidents. Can't you tell? We sucked the feet and gulped the bathwater of our God-man, Maharaji; we were unworthy of being dust on his shoes.

Meanwhile, the boy from Dera Dung could be likened to Hitler. They both brainwashed others to gain power, money, and exhilaration. Maharaji never murdered anyone--he just drove them to suicide or insanity. At the very least, those who fall prey to his rants have a hard time thinking clearly EVER again in their lives.

THINK, THINK, THINK HALDOR. What have you really gotten from your affiliation with you-know-who?

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Date: Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 20:43:10 (GMT)
From: Haldor
Email: None
To: DOD
Subject: Haldor the balder but no wiser!
Message:
A lot more than you did and I'm not bald OK
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Date: Sun, Feb 13, 2000 at 17:30:27 (GMT)
From: BJ
Email: None
To: Haldor
Subject: Haldor the balder but no wiser!
Message:
Will you marry me?

I love your posts.

How about you G ?

Respectfully,
BJ

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Date: Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 17:27:37 (GMT)
From: Sir David
Email: david@xyzx.freeserve.co.uk
To: Haldor
Subject: Giving up the search? I already knew it
Message:
Haldor; I can only speak for myself here but after leaving Maharaji in 1983 I did develope my own philosophy on life. I do have an eversion to so called spiritual things but that's because I see that most of them are false mumbo jumbo.

On The ANYTHING GOES forum I talk about a nurse who helped me once when I was in hospital. She didn't consider herself spiritual and was just an ordinary Irish nurse but I saw more truth in her than in any of the self proclaimed gurus who frequent these ex-premie pages. She knew about compassion, feeling and selflessness. People like her really make a difference in this world.

These days I experience darshan, joy and laughter but not with Maharaji or some other guru but with my own children. There is sincere love there that no amount of spiritual philosophy or 'teachings' can point to. I also get darshan from my friends and can have two-way communication with them and not the one way communication that goes with a Lord or guru.

Sure, people can do meditation and follow that practise, and I'm not averse to that. It is a personal thing just like your diet or hobbies and I don't see the need for a crusade over such a venture.

The one truth which I have learned, I already knew long before I came to Maharaji. My life has merely brought home ever more just how real that truth is. And that simple truth is this - To love and be loved is the greatest thing. I think that is one thing we will take with us when we die.

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Date: Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 20:16:15 (GMT)
From: Haldor
Email: None
To: Sir David
Subject: Giving up the search? I already knew it
Message:
Nice one Sir or can I call you David? I can relate to that.
As this is my last message I'll tell a joke:

Did you hear about the insomniac, agnostic, dyslexic?
He lay awake all night wandering whether or not he believed in dog.

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Date: Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 16:52:03 (GMT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Haldor
Subject: Yup
Message:
Haldor: What, exactly, is the 'sour grapes syndrome' and how is it cured/mitigated? Could you give me a psychological abstract from a respected periodical or publication?

'Blame and judgement....' are overcome when justice is served on the perpetrator. Until that happens, blame and judgement are most appropriate.

Oh yeah, I don't 'throw stones' at mirrors because it's seven years bad luck...... Jeez, don't you know that? 'Spitting' in the wind is better than spending my life in a cult that insists that you 'piss' your life away in the 'black hole' of M worship and spirtual superiority.

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Date: Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 15:09:52 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Haldor
Subject: Time to grow up Haldor
Message:
This 'search' stuff is all bollocks Haldor. We use it as a way of not dealing with reality. An escape from our daily existence.

I've quit searching Haldor. And guess what? After all these years, when I finally quit, I've discovered my true self.

I'm an over the top, middle aged, self-centred, rhyming old fart who stumbled out of a crappy little cult a year and a half ago. Now I'm enjoying what I missed by having my head up my spiritual arse all those years.

Now, to get back to the crux of it Haldor. If there is a Creator, full of love, wisdom, bliss, mercy and all that stuff. Perfect right, and beyond time and space- then, if there is a path to any kind of wisdom at all, it must be to this 'infinite wisdom of all wisdoms that invented wisdom and the wise too' wisdom. Ie God.

Are you with me so far?

So, Haldor, if this is the case, we are going to find all about it when we die, aren't we? What's the hurry?

And if it's not- then it's all a waste of time anyway.

The path of dithering agnosticism covers all options.

And all you've got Haldor is a cult, a reclusive master with expensive tastes, who avoids responsibility and keeps changing his story, and a belief that God tastes of snot.

Maybe it's time you fell from the Holy Path mate, and rejoined the other 3 Billion of us on Earth. (That number doesn't include Moonies, Hare Krishnas, and Scientologists by the way)

There's plenty of important and useful stuff needs doing down here on earth too. Like it says in the Eagles song, 'Call some place 'Paradise', kiss Earth goodbye.'

Anth the Born Again Fat Bastard.

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Date: Fri, Feb 11, 2000 at 16:15:08 (GMT)
From: Way
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Time to grow up Haldor
Message:
Anth,

Your assertion that 'dithering agnosticism covers all options' is a bit perplexing to me. I looked up the word 'dither' but the definition only made your statement seem even more absurd. I assume you are not being serious and I am taking your post too seriously. I think such flippancy is appropriate in some circumstances, but it certainly doesn't properly address Haldor's concerns, (which are universal concerns). What you seem to be advocating is not a 'growing up' but a 'giving up' that's seems to carry a bit of bitterness covered over with wit. There are times in human life that the universe must be addressed with respect, humility, and the other values of the heart. If you never acknowledge that during life, I seriously doubt it will all come together so well at death, as you seem to be proposing.

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Date: Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 15:34:55 (GMT)
From: Hal
Email: To AJW
To: AJW
Subject: Time to grow up Haldor
Message:
OK fat bastard,glad to know youv've found what you're looking for.Me too.With respect . Hal
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Date: Fri, Feb 11, 2000 at 00:01:38 (GMT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Hal
Subject: Time to grow up Haldor
Message:
That was funny, Hal. Really, I got a kick out of that. But Anth never called himself a fat bastard, just over the top and some other stuff which my memory fails to remember. I'm getting old too, I guess.

About searching, I guess you're right, I'm disgruntled with this finding God stuff. I just wanna get laid.

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Date: Fri, Feb 11, 2000 at 21:13:16 (GMT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: Laid is good!
Message:
Jerry: You know, I can forgive him alot of things, but the time I spent oogling over K instead of getting laid...... NOW THAT JUST MAKES ME FUME! :-) And all those... ahem.... celibate ashramies getting it on the side, too.........grrrrrrr !!!!!!!!!!!!! he he he :-)
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Date: Fri, Feb 11, 2000 at 12:00:16 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: Fat is a hedonist issue.
Message:
Hi Jerry,

I signed my post, 'born again fat bastard', but you grasped the essence and obviously realise that Fat is a Hedonist Issue.

Or to put it another way, you don't have to be physically fat to be 'fat on the joys of life'.

However, in my case, I'm a bit of both.

Anth (going on a diet soon).

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Date: Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 08:35:09 (GMT)
From: nightlight
Email: nightlight@dial.pipex.com
To: Everyone
Subject: Is Maharaji an original thinker?
Message:
As a non-premie with premie friends, I hear a great deal about M. He built his entire website (including all the cgi, graphics etc.); he produces, directs, edits his videos. First of all I was wondering if anyone knows firsthand just how much he actually does himself and how much is done by his followers. (I know he actually flies his plane around the world... which is an amazing achievement.)

Also, I have heard him speak on video and live a couple of times. He seems to me to be a very eloquent speaker. To spend your life speaking live to large audiences around the world about something as fundamental as life (and maybe knowledge), and to keep these audiences' attention year in and year out, is impressive. Many of your have spent time around Maharaji personally, so I was wondering how much of an original thinker you think he is. (I hear so much from premies that he is unique... perfectly original and creative... but nobody develops in a vacuum, and there must be influences to his talks and life etc... books he reads, wisdom that he repeats, his role models etc. etc.)

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Date: Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 19:16:15 (GMT)
From: cqg
Email: None
To: nightlight
Subject: original thinker?...more like original bullshitter
Message:


Originally, this was the gist of his message:

'Guru Maharaj Ji knows all. Guru Maharaji is Brahma. Guru Maharaji is Vishnu. Guru Maharjai is Shiva. And above all, Guru Mahraji is the Supremest Lord in person before us. I have come so powerful. I have come for the world. Whenever the great come,the worldly oppose them. Again I have come and you are not listening. Every ear should hear that the saviour of humanity has come. There should be no chance for anyone to say that they haven't heard of Guru Maharaj Ji. Those who have come to me are already saved. Now its your duty to save others. Shout it on the streets. Why be shy?'




Was he lying then, or is he lying now? (and don't tell me it's his modesty that wants to keep these quotes under wraps)Why be shy, indeed!




You can read more on J-M's site

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Date: Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 17:01:28 (GMT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: nightlight
Subject: An achievement?
Message:
NL: '....I know he actually flies his plane around the world... which is an amazing achievement.....' What is so amazing about this? There are thousands of regular old non-god people doing it every day. Why, on this green earth, would you call that amazing?

'He seems to me to be a very eloquent speaker...' To learn more about eloquent speaking, might I recommend a debating team at your local university. Once you listen to some really eloquent speakers, you will immediately recognize the difference.

'....and to keep these audiences' attention year in and year out, is impressive...' I believe it could be called, if I may coin a phrase, the stupor of the hypnotized (probably caused by his droning monotony). Trust me, it isn't even near anything that could be called 'attention.' Been there.... done that!

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Date: Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 15:54:08 (GMT)
From: toby4u
Email: toby4u@01019freenet.de
To: nightlight
Subject: Maharaji an original plagiator
Message:
I spent 14 years as a wondering premie and admiring
his ideas but after I left I found out that M sucks his
surrounding
For example
I know that he had a couple of premies around him that
were former pupils on waldorf-schools especially from
Germany.
Many ideas I heard on the stage who i thought were his
intention were just copied from what he must have heard
from them.
For I studied the teachings of Rudolf Steiner who was the
founder of those schools.
Everything that was a little different in his teachings
from the old indian stuff was adapted from outside.
Not only from them.
Actually there is no one arround him, from those peoeple
anymore.
The last one who left as I kwow was Wolfgang Peters who did
the car repair for a long time.
I do no think that he really understood the deeper meanings but
he definetly has a sense, to take what is usefull for him, and
to missuse it to the extreme.
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Date: Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 15:15:48 (GMT)
From: a pro web developer
Email: None
To: nightlight
Subject: Is Maharaji an original thinker?
Message:
'He built his entire website (including all the cgi, graphics etc.)'

My response:

Go to the credits page and click on 'Web conversion', you will see the following:

Web conversion and technical assistance

Jossi Fresco
Mary Wishard

While you are on the credits page, impartially look at the graphics. What do you think of it, how does it make you feel?

As a professional web developer, I am not impressed with the site. The performance is poor and can be better. The graphics can be easily done with Photoshop, Paint Shop Pro, and other graphics programs. Check out the graphic on the first page, I see maybe a trinket in a jar to catch a monkey, a hypnosis wheel, or a toilet.

Read the copyright page, it asks you to notify them if someone steals your computer. Enough said.

I agree that he is quite a speaker and gives an air of someone who knows what he's talking about. Sometimes what he says is good and inspiring. On closer examination however, I have seen that he is erratic, inconsistant, and makes untrue, even contradictory statements. Sometimes he is not 'on' and is a bit boring, and sometimes he has been the opposite of inspiring. There was a program in Kissimmee, Florida where he gave 'heavy satsang'. When a got back to the ashram I was living in, I broke down crying, I felt despair.

As to M being unique, perfectly original and creative, that is based on the belief that he knows it all. I used to think that way. I know he's into Kabir and Kahlil Gibran, as he has quoted both. There are strong Sikh and Hindu influences behind 'Knowledge', and in particular, there is a tie to the Radhasoami tradition.

Yes, M is an impressive speaker, but there is a lot of salt in with the sugar.

Truth is within us.

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Date: Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 13:36:52 (GMT)
From: Haldor
Email: None
To: nightlight
Subject: Is Maharaji an original thinker?
Message:
I doubt that there are many original thinkers but M is certainly an original doer. If he wanted to pretend to be a holyman he would surely not have been so blatent about his liking for the good things in life. He has not hidden or pretended to be a celibate renunciate.He certainly has moved away from traditional Hindu and Christian concepts in order to show people how to go inside and experience their hearts.
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Date: Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 14:19:21 (GMT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Haldor
Subject: Is Maharaji an original thinker?
Message:
If he wanted to pretend to be a holyman he would surely not have been so blatent about his liking for the good things in life.

He still talks about the world being a place of illusion where no true happiness can be found. And yes, in the same breath he will talk about his fondness for things in it. Is your master confused, Hal? Sounds like it.

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Date: Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 14:24:57 (GMT)
From: Haldor
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: Is Maharaji an original thinker?
Message:
He actually says there is nothing wrong with enjoying these things but they do not bring a sustainable contentment , Things come and go as does your breath but your breath will be with you as long as you live,appreciate this life.
Hal
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Date: Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 14:52:23 (GMT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Haldor
Subject: Bullshit
Message:
He actually says there is nothing wrong with enjoying these things but they do not bring a sustainable contentment.

He should know. He's got more than the norm, that's for sure. But still, Hal, you have to admit it sounds somewhat hypocritical for a rich man talking about the temporal pleasures of the world when he indulges in them like there's no tomorrow. Y'know? If it smells like it, looks like it, sounds like it? Probably is it.

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Date: Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 14:56:53 (GMT)
From: Haldor
Email: reply to Jerry
To: Jerry
Subject: Bullshit
Message:
It's all bullshit.
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Date: Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 08:57:22 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: nightlight
Subject: You kidding ?
Message:
He built his entire website (including all the cgi, graphics etc.);

Almost anybody can do this. It requires some training, some books, and mostly time, that's all.

he produces, directs, edits his videos.

So what ? same thing. There are thousands of technicians who've learned this.

First of all I was wondering if anyone knows firsthand just how much he actually does himself and how much is done by his followers. (I know he actually flies his plane around the world... which is an amazing achievement.)

Same thing for flying. I also have a few friends who have professional pilot qualifications. It's only a matter of time and money, and not being a total idiot. You pay for the trainings, until you get your qualifications. And then you fly, and become good at it. One of my friends is also an instructor on top of this: there is nothing special to him. To say the truth, he tells the same sort of stories Rawat tells, and he gets very boring. This guy also survived a crash, wasn't his fault, and I'm impressed.

Rawat is not a total idiot. Maybe his IQ is more than average. So what ?

To spend your life speaking live to large audiences around the world about something as fundamental as life (and maybe knowledge), and to keep these audiences' attention year in and year out, is impressive.

His charisma can't be denied. So what ?

how much of an original thinker you think he is.

Original personality: yes. Not that many people said they're the Lord of the Universe.

Good at using his talents for making money, having slaves and playing dictator.

Original thinking: unfortunately not.

Can you quote anything (not copyrighted) intelligent (beside good jokes) he ever said in his discourses????

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Date: Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 18:17:26 (GMT)
From: Gregg
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: The differently-abled Guru
Message:
I have to agree with Jean-Michel. There really is nothing profound or eloquent in Maharaj Ji's speeches. If you are under his spell, so to speak, they are wonderful. I remember the first time I saw him, in Orlando: I felt like he was speaking directly to me.

However, evaluating him from a greater emotional distance, his words of wisdom sound banal and pedestrian. This was my response to hearing him speak a year or two ago. And I went with an open mind, not as a Maharaj Ji hater.

There are lots of great motivational speakers out there; there are some articulate gurus and preachers and lecturers. Guru Maharaj Ji is not one of them. Believe me, his followers do not flock to his lotus feet because of his intellect or his elocutionary skills.

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Date: Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 18:33:41 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Gregg
Subject: I'm sorry I had the most stupid guru
Message:
I've been embarrassed so many times when I heard him repeating and misinterpreting stuff he had obviously read in books.

I've always been very embarrased with this, and this is one of the things that kept me from bringing friends to listen to him.

What do you feel when somebody you love says stupid things ?

He speaks so often of things he doesn't know himself, or repeats things he's heard on TV or read in magazines and didn't properly understand. That's been very obvious many times. He obviously reads Scientific American, which I also do, and quite often gave his strange interpretation on stuff he reads there (not saying he does). I was very embarrased. I knew I had a stupid guru, and tried to live with this.

Like with his famous parable of the master trying to take water from a well using a bucket full of holes.

I would think he was saying stupid things to 'blow my mind' or take me 'beyond' something (my 'mind'), when he's simply stupid !

Look, he sets himself in an impeccable environment, wearing the most expensive suits, and utters the most stupid and hollow things. What a 'mind blowing' experience ! What a stupid guru !


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Date: Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 02:34:59 (GMT)
From: Time to LAUGH
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: If mahaha comes here often to reads our posts...
Message:
what would he say?
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Date: Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 20:10:04 (GMT)
From: DOD
Email: None
To: Time to LAUGH
Subject: If mahaha comes here often to reads our posts...
Message:
'This is unbelievable. I have given these premies the Knowledge of all knowledges ... the experience of all experiences ... dah dah dah and this is how they repay me.

Of course, I never lose a premie, so they'll be dragging their sorry asses back any day now. The ways of the world in the days of Kaliyuga ... [shudder]

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Date: Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 13:30:38 (GMT)
From: Haldor
Email: None
To: Time to LAUGH
Subject: If mahaha comes here often to reads our posts...
Message:
You are entitled to your opinions and to make your choices so are those who enjoy practicing knowledge.
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Date: Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 05:51:46 (GMT)
From: Jethro
Email: None
To: Time to LAUGH
Subject: If mahaha comes here often to reads our posts...
Message:
he would tell the story about the person who hated the pm so much that he realised the truth.......he would say how the exs are more focussed on him than his students......it's his lila...etc....etc...
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Date: Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 03:21:25 (GMT)
From: Modest Mouse
Email: None
To: Time to LAUGH
Subject: Time to LAUGH at what? You?
Message:
Don't forget that in Maharaji's world there is absolutely no other opinion than his.

And don't forget that in the old days there were the really dedicated premies, usually your ashram premies, community premies, householders, fringe premies, and your bongo premies.

Any premie could fall from grace all the way to being a bongo premie if they spoke their mind too freely.

Even today, there is no discussion nor opinions in the premie communities as everyone waits, nervously sitting on their hands, for some important word to come down from Maharaji or his representatives. No arguing with that.

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Date: Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 08:26:49 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Modest Mouse
Subject: The official word is 'this is not important' !
Message:
They've heard it from His instructors, and they shouldn't be bothered by what's happening here, coz were almost non existent.
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Date: Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 16:50:20 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: The official word is 'this is not important' !
Message:
JM,

you posted:

They've heard it from His instructors, and they shouldn't be bothered by what's happening here, coz were almost non existent.

But we know is not true. They do care. Couple of days a go you received an email from Evital and 'they'=M are pissed off about you exposing their little secrets and ways of doing 'propagation'.

If Maharaji comes often here, and we may have reasons to believe that he personally doesn't, but cannot be ruled out. If he does come, he would have learned few things about himself and the wrong approaches 'they' use, to continue their Guru trip, devotion, freedom proposal that is not real freedom but chains, etc. And IMO, I think they take what is serious here seriously enough, that their tactics are changing all the time, and in part is becasue of the ideas EV gets from here. And that's fine with me. We may give good ideas to them in the process of doing our part against him and that may me the price we pay for being here. Can't win all the time. I love cliches, they come handy sometimes.

We are important because we have a voice and WE know they don't like it. Yes, they can say that our presence here is unnimportant, but how they follow these forums tells the opposite. Knowing his video contents very, very well I can easily see that a lot of his satsabanga includes often a response to what happen here. In some point I would like to sit down and look at this, maybe torture myself listening to some videos, and if for nothing else, I'll do it to point the importance of these forums, and how M. tries to respond to us considering that his premies read here too. They are concerned with us? I think so. The letter from EV you received is one proof. I saw by myself their paranoia while serving rat and you seem to have more evidence of it to share with us soon, to corroborate that. they come every day, I bet you!!

Maybe you were just kidding.

PS: Where do you get all the good stuff you post here? You don't have to answer it. :)

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Date: Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 20:27:47 (GMT)
From: cqg
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Intelligence vs religiosity (continued?)
Message:


'The world holds two classes of men -- intelligent men without religion, and religious men without intelligence.'

[Abu'l-Ala-Al-Ma'arri (973-1057; Syrian poet)]






For a more recent exposition on this theme, try the Improbability of God

.
.
.
and one more for the road:

'The most savage controversies are those about matters as to which there is no good evidence either way.

Persecution is used in theology, not in arithmetic.'

[Bertrand Russell, 'Unpopular Essays']
-------

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Date: Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 00:51:47 (GMT)
From: michael
Email: None
To: cqg
Subject: Hmmmm... (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 18:32:48 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Sexual Harassment addressed in EV's trainings
Message:
Here is an excerpt from a booklet distributed to participants to a recent US meeting:

++++++++++

Exhibit 5

SEXUAL HARASSMENT ON THE JOB
Workplace Policies and Programs

SAMPLE SEXUAL HARASSMENT POLICY

[Employer name] is committed to providing a work environment where women and men can work together comfortably and productively, free from sexual harassment. Such behavior is illegal under both state and federal law—and will not be tolerated here.
This policy applies to all phases of employment—including recruiting, testing, hiring, upgrading, promotion or demotion, transfer, layoff, termination, rates of pay, benefits and selection for training, travel or company social events.

Prohibited Behavior

Prohibited .sexual harassment includes unsolicited and unwelcome contact that has sexual overtones. This includes:
· written contact, such as sexually suggestive or obscene letters, notes, invitations
. verbal contact, such as sexually suggestive or obscene comments, threats, slurs, epithets, jokes about gender-specific traits, sexual propositions
· physical contact, such as intentional touching, pinching, brushing against another’s body, impeding or blocking movement, assault, coercing sexual intercourse, and
. visual contact, .such as leering or staring at another's body, gesturing, displaying sexually suggestive objects or pictures, cartoons, posters or magazines.
Sexual harassment also includes continuing to express sexual or social interest after being informed directly that the interest is unwelcome—and using sexual behavior to control, influence or affect the career, salary or work environment of another employee.
It is impermissible to suggest, threaten or imply that failure to accept a request for a date or sexual intimacy will affect an employee's job prospects. For example, it is forbidden either to imply or actually withhold support for an appointment, promotion, or change of assignment, or
suggest that a poor performance report will be given because an employee has declined a personal proposition.
Also, offering benefits, such as promotions, favorable performance evaluation, favorable assigned duties or shifts, recommendations or reclassifications in exchange for sexual favors is forbidden.

Harassment by Non-Employees

In addition, [Employer name] will take all reasonable steps to prevent or eliminate sexual harassment by non-employees including customers, clients and suppliers, who are likely to have workplace contact with our employees.

Monitoring

[Employer name] shall take all reasonable steps to see that this policy prohibiting sexual harassment is followed by all employees, supervisors and others who have contact with our employees. This prevention plan will include training sessions, ongoing monitoring of the worksite and a confidential employee survey to be conducted and evaluated every six months.

Discipline

Any employee found to have violated this policy shall be subject to appropriate disciplinary action, including warnings, reprimand, suspension or discharge, according to the findings of the complaint investigation.
If an investigation reveals that sexual harassment has occurred, the harasser may also he held legally liable for his or her actions under state or federal anti-discrimination laws or in separate legal actions .

Retaliation

Any employee bringing a sexual harassment complaint or assisting in investigating such a complaint will not be adversely affected in terms and conditions of employment, or discriminated against or discharged because of the complaint. Complaints of such retaliation will be promptly investigated and punished.

Complaint Procedure and Investigation

[Title of person appointed] is designated as the Sexual Harassment Counselor. All complaints of sexual harassment and retaliation for reporting or participating in an investigation shall be directed to the Sexual Harassment Counselor or to a supervisor of your choice, either in writing, by filing out the attached Complaint Form, or by requesting an individual interview. All complaints shall be handled as confidentially as possible. The Sexual Harassment Counselor will promptly investigate and resolve complaints involving violations of this policy and recommend to management the appropriate sanctions to be imposed against violators.

Training

[Employer name] will establish yearly training sessions for all employees concerning their rights to be free from sexual harassment and the legal options available if they are harassed. In addition, training sessions will be held for supervisors and managers, educating them in how to keep the workplace as free from harassment as possible and in how to handle sexual harassment complains.
A copy of the policy will he distributed to all employees and posted in areas where all employees will have the opportunity to freely review it. [Employer name] welcomes your suggestions for improvements to this policy.

Complaint Procedures and Investigations
A good harassment policy is a crucial first step in ridding a workplace of offensive, unwanted behavior. But it won't count for much unless an employer also adopts a trustworthy and energetic procedure for handling and investigating complaints.

NO TOUCHES, NO POSTERS, NO SEXUAL REMARKS OF ANY KIND.
PATS ON THE BACK MAY BE FINE IN A BASEBALL DUGOUT, BUT ARE
NOT APPRECIATED IN THE WORKPLACE. A MANAGER IS IN THE BEST
POSITION TO STOP SEXUAL HARASSMENT BEFORE IT GETS STARTED.
FROM « WHAT EVERY MANAGER MUST KNOW TO PREVENT SEXUAL HARASSMENT, »
A BOOKLET PUBLISHED BY THE ALEXANDER HAMILTON INSTITUTE, INC.

++++++++++++

What do you think of this ?

What about the past crimes ?

Anybody participated in one of those ?


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Date: Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 06:16:42 (GMT)
From: Testing (nt)
Email: None
To: Test
Subject: Test (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 20:06:51 (GMT)
From: 09
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Can you get Religious harrassment ? (OT)
Message:
Hello Jean Michel

If you have a similar document relating to religious harrassment, would you post it too?
It is not related to EV - but to a complaint in the workplace.
09

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Date: Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 20:39:32 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: 09
Subject: Can you get Religious harrassment ? (OT)
Message:
This document is part of EV's training manuals. I'll have it whole by tomorrow on my website. Have you been participating in these trainings?

They also have documents on financial racket, that will be my next post.


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Date: Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 10:21:52 (GMT)
From: 09
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Can you get Religious harrassment ? (OT)
Message:
No, I have not been participating in these trainings. Yikes!
I would like the religious harrassment principals for a different reason.
I dont imagine EV would have them. Do you think these sexual harrassment ones are drawn up by an independant party and then EV adapts them??

I like the format of these.
plaese give the link to your site.
I am not familiar with it.

Thank you
09

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Date: Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 10:37:56 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: 09
Subject: Ev and sexual harrassment: something done?
Message:
I've pointed to this document, because quite some premies and exes have been victims of this inside EV and DLM.

I guess they'll be glad to know that something has been done to avoid it in the future, even though I doubt it.

Particularly from mahatmas and instructors.

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Date: Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 11:27:17 (GMT)
From: 09
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Ev and sexual harrassment: something done?
Message:
Ya I got that. I have always thought something should be done about it.

I think that after hours, exs are compiling enough evidence and putting together a case or two. but it would never surface on the forum. That wouldnt be too bright.

Remmember when that premie plant was just dying to know and snaked around till he couldnt stand it anymore and point blank ASKED. God that was hilarious. Jim at his finest. (I think it was Jim anyway)

As for your documents, I was wondering if you had something similar for Religious harrassment- not having to do with EV at all.

What in the world are you doing awake?
09

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Date: Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 14:32:48 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: 09
Subject: Can't you figure out USA is not the only place?
Message:
on earth?

Where do you think I'm living ?

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Date: Fri, Feb 11, 2000 at 00:56:39 (GMT)
From: 09
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Can't you figure out USA is not the only place?
Message:
Sorry
I thought you might be getting that off the internet. I am not sure what US has to do with my blunder, but never mind anyway.
Take care
09
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Date: Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 17:16:49 (GMT)
From: a spy
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Recent invitation to a special event
Message:
I got a letter in an envelope with no return address. It reads as follows:

Just for You

An invitation to a special event...
An opportunity to sit back, relax, and enjoy some wonderful videos. Discover the joy of reaching out to introduce others.

This event will focus on reaching out by premiering the introductory videos that were produced from the Introductory Initiative. At this event, information will also be provided on a variety of ways someone can reach out.

This is not an introductory event.

Refreshments will be served

[Date, time, address, and phone number are then given]

Room location is listed as: 'Knowledge Event - Video Presentation'

For more information on events about Maharaji:
Please call: [phone number given]
Online: http://www.elanvital.org

------- end of letter --------

Some observations:

The 'Introductory Initiative', oh my!

In '... ways someone can reach out', notice the use of the word 'can' instead of 'might', a subtle implication that other ways are forbibben.

M is saying that premies need to be taught how to 'reach out'; that the reason things aren't going good where I live is because premies are inept. In his mind, it couldn't possibly be that perhaps there is something wrong with what he is saying or how he's saying it.

The fact this it is not introductory is emphasized.
Also, 'Refreshments will be served' is emphasized; got to entice those premies somehow I guess.

Do the companies that the rooms are rented from know that Elan Vital (formally Divine Light Mission) is behind these 'presentations'?

Regarding the wording 'events about Maharaji', yea, that says it all, it's not about knowing yourself.

What do you think, should I attend so I can give a spy report?

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Date: Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 07:28:48 (GMT)
From: Agent 99(:(:
Email: Maxwell Smart
To: a spy in open company
Subject: Recent invitation to a special event
Message:
Why not ,you might learn something.
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Date: Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 01:16:01 (GMT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: a spy
Subject: Recent invitation to a special event
Message:
Maharaji thinks the premies are so dumb and stupid, while he is so intellegent and enlightened that only he could possibly know how to introduce people.

The fact of the matter is that over the years I got many people interested in knowledge.

And you know what? They were all turned off by Maharaji. They liked what I was talking about but when they became confronted with Maharaji - they wanted no part of it

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Date: Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 02:55:14 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: people turned off by 'Maharaji'
Message:
Yes, the same thing happened with me, many people were interested in being happier, more peaceful and loving, and in meditation. I got many people to see 'Maharaji' in person, to satsang with premies talking, and to M videos. Only a handful 'received Knowledge' and NOT because of M. Only one person is even marginally is 'into Maharaji' and that person got into it because of premies. I remember one person's comment about an M talk: shallow. I remember one person who saw me meditating, she could tell I felt peaceful, she went to one satsang, saw the Guru trip, and was gone.

It was such a frustrating ordeal.

How many people have been turned off to meditation by M?

'Maharaji' cares very little about people, he's acts like a selfish, spoiled brat.

Defending him, apologizing for him, lying for him, being ashamed of him. It gets very old.

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Date: Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 21:06:47 (GMT)
From: cqg
Email: None
To: G
Subject: has he given meditation a bad name?
Message:
Depressing to think that some of the ones who are still hooked into his personality cult are there because WE introduced them to him ...
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Date: Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 14:54:13 (GMT)
From: Haldor
Email: None
To: G
Subject: people turned off by 'Maharaji'
Message:
Yes , this has happened to me too.Why doesn't he look more like a film star? People love to worship them;or maybe a handsome rock star.I can't understand why if he's a master he didn't choose that. Is he implying that it doesn't matter whether you are fat or thin ,good looking or not?Maybe he also thinks that pleasing all the people all the time is an impossibility.
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Date: Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 15:27:02 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: Haldor
Subject: people turned off by 'Maharaji'
Message:
It's not his looks that they are turned off to, it's the bad part of what he is saying. To say that it is his looks is assume that you know what their motivations are. I don't think most people are that shallow.

I've known sincere people that have been turned off by the idolatry.

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Date: Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 19:59:30 (GMT)
From: Dunceoafdolt (DOD)
Email: None
To: a spy
Subject: When is the next live program?
Message:
I haven't seen our Master for years. I liked the description 'fat, greasy alcoholic.' It sounds like Rawat's personal appearance and lifestyle haven't changed much.

How about his spiel? Is it as lacklustre as ever?

Someone mentioned televangelist as his new means of spreading his message. Has he quit doing live shows altogether?

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Date: Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 22:29:23 (GMT)
From: Way
Email: None
To: a spy
Subject: Should you go?
Message:
Dear 'a spy',

We have no spies who are up to actually attending events, that I know of. Please do go, but bring a barf bag.

Seriously, I would say that if you can tolerate attending a program when you are attending under false pretenses, then it would be interesting to know about the latest activity in premiedom. I myself would never attend because the premies in my town already know of my current status and I would be incredibly uncomfortable creating that kind of situation for myself and for the premies. On the other hand, I have thought of attending events when I go to LA, since I could be incognito there.

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Date: Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 22:34:24 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: go to the event?
Message:
I don't know if I could tolerate the situation, it might be too weird, but I'll see what I decide.
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