Forum V: Archive
Compiled: Mon, Mar 06, 2000 at 23:08:13 (GMT)
From: Feb 21, 2000 To: Mar 05, 2000 Page: 4 Of: 5


cqg -:- The last straw -:- Thurs, Feb 24, 2000 at 21:10:09 (GMT)
__ KMDARLING -:- The last straw. DARNIT! Did this happen to you? -:- Sat, Feb 26, 2000 at 02:36:00 (GMT)
__ __ Susan -:- great post Katie. You always have insight. (nt) -:- Mon, Feb 28, 2000 at 04:29:21 (GMT)
__ __ G -:- The ashram -:- Sun, Feb 27, 2000 at 16:19:21 (GMT)
__ __ __ KMDARLING -:- The ashram..... AAAAAARRRRRRGGGGGHHHHH! -:- Sun, Feb 27, 2000 at 16:41:57 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ G -:- The ashram -:- Sun, Feb 27, 2000 at 23:19:27 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Jackie -:- Nouveau Covertness -:- Mon, Feb 28, 2000 at 01:08:07 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ cqg -:- Nouveau Covertness? -:- Mon, Feb 28, 2000 at 20:03:58 (GMT)

cqg -:- And ANOTHER one! -:- Thurs, Feb 24, 2000 at 20:34:53 (GMT)
__ dj -:- And ANOTHER one! -:- Fri, Feb 25, 2000 at 18:38:32 (GMT)
__ __ cqg -:- You get 'peace' from obeying his commands then? -:- Fri, Feb 25, 2000 at 19:08:48 (GMT)
__ __ __ dj -:- You get 'peace' from obeying his commands then? -:- Fri, Feb 25, 2000 at 19:37:19 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ cqg -:- You could answer my question first ... -:- Fri, Feb 25, 2000 at 20:17:23 (GMT)

cqg -:- 'Establish peace' - means what? -:- Thurs, Feb 24, 2000 at 20:22:37 (GMT)
__ PEACE OR PIECE ? -:- 'Establish peace' - means what? did he mean to -:- Fri, Feb 25, 2000 at 03:00:26 (GMT)
__ __ dj -:- 'Establish peace' - means what? did he mean to -:- Fri, Feb 25, 2000 at 19:02:39 (GMT)

Jerry -:- Can Maharaji get your taxes? -:- Thurs, Feb 24, 2000 at 19:46:12 (GMT)
__ David -:- Can Maharaji get your taxes? -:- Fri, Feb 25, 2000 at 14:47:48 (GMT)
__ __ Jerry -:- The concept -:- Fri, Feb 25, 2000 at 17:23:53 (GMT)

Keith -:- Class action suit -:- Thurs, Feb 24, 2000 at 09:02:50 (GMT)
__ Scott T. -:- Class action suit -:- Sat, Feb 26, 2000 at 04:33:02 (GMT)
__ SB -:- Class action suit: The guru is a fraud !! -:- Thurs, Feb 24, 2000 at 15:21:25 (GMT)
__ __ Selene -:- Class action suit: The guru is a fraud !! -:- Thurs, Feb 24, 2000 at 18:46:11 (GMT)
__ __ __ SB -:- Is true, but most premies lurking don't read the a -:- Thurs, Feb 24, 2000 at 18:54:07 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Selene -:- Is true, but most premies lurking don't read the a -:- Thurs, Feb 24, 2000 at 19:26:17 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ SB -:- can you tell me? -:- Fri, Feb 25, 2000 at 19:11:08 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ selene internet addict -:- SB I had a waking nightmare just now -:- Fri, Feb 25, 2000 at 21:43:18 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- can you tell me? -:- Fri, Feb 25, 2000 at 20:05:29 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ cqg -:- step in that one a lot? -:- Fri, Feb 25, 2000 at 20:43:30 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Hal -:- step in that one a lot? -:- Fri, Feb 25, 2000 at 21:29:36 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ cqg -:- 'Flattery will get you everywhere'... ;) (nt) -:- Fri, Feb 25, 2000 at 21:43:10 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ selene -:- are you talking to me? :) -:- Fri, Feb 25, 2000 at 20:47:38 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ cqg -:- Not yet! :) (nt) -:- Fri, Feb 25, 2000 at 21:29:19 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ selene -:- just wondered it is -:- Fri, Feb 25, 2000 at 21:37:55 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ cq -:- Dark... yes, and luverly ... (Oh Shiva!) (nt) -:- Fri, Feb 25, 2000 at 21:44:22 (GMT)

Hal -:- Corruption of a minor -:- Wed, Feb 23, 2000 at 07:44:32 (GMT)
__ Hal -:- ok I see i'm too soft on the bastard ! -:- Thurs, Feb 24, 2000 at 20:31:51 (GMT)
__ Fred -:- Corruption of a minor -:- Wed, Feb 23, 2000 at 23:31:30 (GMT)
__ Brian -:- Corruption of a minor -:- Wed, Feb 23, 2000 at 21:17:20 (GMT)
__ __ Hal -:- About that stick -:- Thurs, Feb 24, 2000 at 04:00:47 (GMT)
__ __ __ G -:- About that stick -:- Thurs, Feb 24, 2000 at 16:36:17 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Jethro -:- What about Gary Gerrard's nose -:- Thurs, Feb 24, 2000 at 17:27:17 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ SB -:- Is Gery still with Lard, do you know? (nt) -:- Thurs, Feb 24, 2000 at 18:49:27 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Joey -:- Is Gery still with Lard, do you know? (nt) -:- Sat, Feb 26, 2000 at 17:19:16 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Jethro -:- I've no idea(nt) -:- Thurs, Feb 24, 2000 at 20:53:17 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ enemy -:- no -:- Fri, Feb 25, 2000 at 04:24:46 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ SB -:- Thanks. (nt) -:- Fri, Feb 25, 2000 at 18:50:43 (GMT)
__ __ __ Brian -:- About that stick -:- Thurs, Feb 24, 2000 at 04:52:15 (GMT)
__ __ bb -:- mom knows best -:- Thurs, Feb 24, 2000 at 01:05:57 (GMT)
__ __ __ Brian -:- Ah, the nose -:- Thurs, Feb 24, 2000 at 04:42:55 (GMT)
__ SB -:- His master gave him the Agya/order -:- Wed, Feb 23, 2000 at 15:46:54 (GMT)
__ __ Jerry -:- Or so the rumour goes -:- Wed, Feb 23, 2000 at 21:58:49 (GMT)
__ __ __ SB -:- Or so the rumour goes -:- Wed, Feb 23, 2000 at 22:41:24 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Jean-Michel -:- Here's the quote: Prempal actually hallucinated!!! -:- Thurs, Feb 24, 2000 at 11:41:28 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Jean-Michel -:- Hans told him in DREAMS ! RAWAT SAID SO -:- Thurs, Feb 24, 2000 at 09:04:32 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Jean-Michel -:- and Hans was not expecting a sudden death ! -:- Thurs, Feb 24, 2000 at 09:09:02 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Sb -:- and Hans was not expecting a sudden death ! -:- Thurs, Feb 24, 2000 at 15:36:09 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jean-Michel -:- Soap is lethal for Indian gurus, no joke -:- Thurs, Feb 24, 2000 at 17:49:59 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ SB -:- Soap is lethal for Indian gurus, no joke: hahahaha -:- Thurs, Feb 24, 2000 at 18:44:18 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jean-Michel -:- Salt's much better to immortalize the fat ass -:- Fri, Feb 25, 2000 at 08:37:27 (GMT)
__ Jerry -:- He's no longer a minor -:- Wed, Feb 23, 2000 at 13:55:58 (GMT)
__ __ cqg -:- and to step down would mean him having to admit... -:- Wed, Feb 23, 2000 at 15:38:21 (GMT)
__ __ __ Hal -:- and to step down would mean him having to admit... -:- Wed, Feb 23, 2000 at 18:45:52 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Robyn -:- and to step down would mean him having to admit... -:- Thurs, Feb 24, 2000 at 02:03:49 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Jerry -:- David Blaine revisited -:- Thurs, Feb 24, 2000 at 19:12:54 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Robyn -:- David Blaine revisited -:- Thurs, Feb 24, 2000 at 19:37:48 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jerry -:- Hmmm, let me see... -:- Thurs, Feb 24, 2000 at 19:59:57 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Roby -:- Hmmm, let me see... -:- Thurs, Feb 24, 2000 at 21:13:17 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jerry -:- It's magic! -:- Thurs, Feb 24, 2000 at 21:51:07 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Robyn -:- It's magic! -:- Thurs, Feb 24, 2000 at 22:30:45 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jerry -:- The dead fly -:- Fri, Feb 25, 2000 at 00:15:21 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jerry -:- Did I say 'wench'? -:- Sat, Feb 26, 2000 at 19:00:29 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Robyn -:- Did I say 'wench'? -:- Sun, Feb 27, 2000 at 05:54:20 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jerry -:- Did I say 'wench'? -:- Sun, Feb 27, 2000 at 15:39:25 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Robyn -:- Did I say 'wench'? -:- Sun, Feb 27, 2000 at 20:03:49 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Robyn -:- The dead fly -:- Fri, Feb 25, 2000 at 01:19:18 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jerry -:- Suspending disbelief can be fun -:- Fri, Feb 25, 2000 at 16:08:16 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Jerry -:- I'm a Sag, too! -:- Thurs, Feb 24, 2000 at 00:35:44 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ cqg -:- having to admit... -:- Wed, Feb 23, 2000 at 19:52:02 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Sir David -:- having to admit... an old paradox -:- Thurs, Feb 24, 2000 at 03:35:26 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ cqg -:- having to admit... an old paradox -:- Thurs, Feb 24, 2000 at 18:37:18 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Sir Dave -:- having to admit... an old paradox -:- Thurs, Feb 24, 2000 at 19:39:32 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ JHB -:- having to admit... an old paradox -:- Fri, Feb 25, 2000 at 00:39:40 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Of course it's bullshit; just ask baby Jesus -:- Fri, Feb 25, 2000 at 03:37:44 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ JHB -:- Of course it's bullshit; just ask baby Jesus -:- Fri, Feb 25, 2000 at 12:25:51 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ cqg -:- having to admit... an old paradox -:- Thurs, Feb 24, 2000 at 20:15:43 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Robyn -:- having to admit... -:- Thurs, Feb 24, 2000 at 02:59:58 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ cqg -:- having to admit - I'm aging (less than gracefully) -:- Thurs, Feb 24, 2000 at 18:48:04 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Robyn -:- having to admit - I'm aging (less than gracefully) -:- Thurs, Feb 24, 2000 at 19:42:52 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ cqg -:- Un-birthdays? -:- Thurs, Feb 24, 2000 at 19:55:17 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Robyn -:- Un-birthdays? -:- Thurs, Feb 24, 2000 at 21:45:23 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Helen -:- the CHristmas poop -:- Fri, Feb 25, 2000 at 15:31:29 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Robyn -:- the CHristmas poo -:- Fri, Feb 25, 2000 at 23:44:58 (GMT)
__ __ Hal -:- He's no longer a minor -:- Wed, Feb 23, 2000 at 14:00:55 (GMT)
__ __ __ cqg -:- He's no longer a minor -:- Thurs, Feb 24, 2000 at 20:27:39 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Hal -:- What would make him quit? -:- Thurs, Feb 24, 2000 at 20:46:48 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ cqg -:- This is the nearest we've got to it! (nt) -:- Fri, Feb 25, 2000 at 19:11:42 (GMT)
__ CBI -:- leaving town -:- Wed, Feb 23, 2000 at 08:28:38 (GMT)
__ __ Happy -:- leaving town, don't look back -:- Wed, Feb 23, 2000 at 16:57:34 (GMT)
__ __ __ JHB -:- leaving town, don't look back -:- Wed, Feb 23, 2000 at 17:15:11 (GMT)
__ __ Hal -:- leaving town -:- Wed, Feb 23, 2000 at 13:05:26 (GMT)
__ __ __ Hal -:- Read this M -:- Wed, Feb 23, 2000 at 13:51:52 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Jean-Michel -:- He doesn't care, he's into peeing -:- Wed, Feb 23, 2000 at 15:15:21 (GMT)

cqg -:- Eyes only -:- Tues, Feb 22, 2000 at 21:24:37 (GMT)
__ Hal -:- Eyes only -:- Tues, Feb 22, 2000 at 21:33:00 (GMT)
__ __ Jack -:- Anyone else seen Beach - the movie? -:- Wed, Feb 23, 2000 at 04:42:46 (GMT)
__ __ JHB -:- Eyes only -:- Tues, Feb 22, 2000 at 23:47:14 (GMT)
__ __ __ Hal -:- Eyes only -:- Tues, Feb 22, 2000 at 23:52:21 (GMT)
__ __ Jack -:- Twenty Dollars only? -:- Tues, Feb 22, 2000 at 21:39:43 (GMT)
__ __ __ Hal -:- now it's 30 dollars! n.t. -:- Tues, Feb 29, 2000 at 07:40:51 (GMT)
__ __ __ Hal -:- Twenty Dollars only? -:- Tues, Feb 22, 2000 at 21:59:20 (GMT)

Sniggs -:- Raja Ji Alert -:- Tues, Feb 22, 2000 at 13:17:34 (GMT)
__ Jean-Michel -:- Included in Elan Vital Today .... -:- Wed, Feb 23, 2000 at 09:03:01 (GMT)
__ __ JHB -:- Check this out! -:- Wed, Feb 23, 2000 at 11:13:05 (GMT)
__ __ __ Sir Dave -:- Send Jesus the goats -:- Fri, Feb 25, 2000 at 03:33:01 (GMT)
__ __ __ Jean-Michel -:- Check this out! and also..... -:- Wed, Feb 23, 2000 at 14:27:39 (GMT)
__ CultbusterUK -:- Raja Ji Alert -:- Tues, Feb 22, 2000 at 13:55:48 (GMT)
__ __ Charlie -:- Raja Ji Alert -:- Tues, Feb 22, 2000 at 22:23:46 (GMT)
__ __ cb US -:- Raja Ji spacey -:- Tues, Feb 22, 2000 at 14:08:19 (GMT)
__ __ __ Beragon Splinter Group -:- Leafleting -:- Tues, Feb 22, 2000 at 17:27:59 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Anarchist -:- Leafleting - Mission Possible -:- Tues, Feb 22, 2000 at 19:41:06 (GMT)
__ __ __ CultbusterUK -:- Raja Ji spacey -:- Tues, Feb 22, 2000 at 14:51:48 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ G -:- Raja Ji visit -:- Wed, Feb 23, 2000 at 04:29:57 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Angry -:- Raja Ji -Guilty as Co-Conspirator! -:- Tues, Feb 22, 2000 at 18:16:13 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- May I remind you -:- Tues, Feb 22, 2000 at 21:24:51 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ G -:- Raja Ji -:- Tues, Feb 22, 2000 at 22:16:31 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Hal -:- Raja Ji is a parasite -:- Tues, Feb 22, 2000 at 22:11:34 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ G -:- Raja Ji is a parasite -:- Tues, Feb 22, 2000 at 22:27:31 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Didn't they coin the term 'Eurotrash' for him? -:- Tues, Feb 22, 2000 at 22:19:23 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ cqg -:- He justs wants more money? Interesting ... (nt) -:- Tues, Feb 22, 2000 at 21:26:37 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ cqg -:- Now that WOULD be some house divided! (nt) -:- Tues, Feb 22, 2000 at 20:59:34 (GMT)

Hal -:- A short story -:- Tues, Feb 22, 2000 at 11:20:24 (GMT)
__ djuro -:- A short story -:- Tues, Feb 22, 2000 at 16:19:51 (GMT)
__ __ Hal -:- more expansion please -:- Tues, Feb 22, 2000 at 23:41:55 (GMT)
__ __ Hal -:- It's metaphorical dummy! n.t. -:- Tues, Feb 22, 2000 at 21:16:30 (GMT)
__ __ dgeri -:- Revised ending for 'Story.' good story, btw. -:- Tues, Feb 22, 2000 at 17:13:53 (GMT)
__ __ __ Sean -:- Revised ending for 'Story.' good story, btw. -:- Sun, Feb 27, 2000 at 21:13:28 (GMT)
__ __ __ Hal -:- Good revised ending.I laughed nt -:- Tues, Feb 22, 2000 at 22:32:13 (GMT)


Date: Thurs, Feb 24, 2000 at 21:10:09 (GMT)
From: cqg
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: The last straw
Message:
This you WILL NOT believe:


(OK, so it's from 1975, but it was 'agya'(command) then, and many premies will not like the idea that what is agya today will be bullshit tomorrow)


Full quote here


Q: Maharaj Ji, there's a couple of instances that have come to me about couples that want to split up, and they feel that if they split up, it will be good for their spiritual growth. How about this ? Couples that, they don't have babies and they want to split up after they got married. Should they split up, or should they stay together ?

Ans: Tell them not to split up. That doesn't make any sense. Tell them they can move into an Ashram ...




And this from the guy that chucked the ashram premies into the gutter? ....

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Date: Sat, Feb 26, 2000 at 02:36:00 (GMT)
From: KMDARLING
Email: darlingwave@aol.com
To: cqg
Subject: The last straw. DARNIT! Did this happen to you?
Message:
Darnit! This is what really pisses me off!

I was in the ashram for 6 years, sent all over by MJ (Spain, South America). Ended up at infamous IHQ in Denver right when they were doing the first ashram-closing. Met my first hub at the ashram at 1560 Race (MJ's first residence). Everyone was being encouraged to leave the ashrams. I cannot describe the relief at experiencing human love (not to mention sex, although it took us a while to remember how––only 23 and already monkish). I started to feel a great healing from the cold experience of being an upward-looking devotee among other upward-looking devotees (meaning that warm feelings laterally between people were not encouraged, give all your love to the guru). Not that we didn't develop friendships, but there was a toxic undertow... they would sell you for a moment with the Lord.

Getting married was this huge relief, as I said. Still devotees, though, we got swept away in the massive revivalist movement of 1977, travelling all over to hear MJ say over and over again that everyone should give their lives to him (nothing much about Nolidge, just devotion). I must have heard that Eknot story 15 times, and it was really traumatizing for a newly-wed. Pretty much everyone I knew who was in a marriage or relationship, including people with kids, was jumping back into the ashrams. MJ directly created this by what he said, again and again. I kept asking for help, from ppl around him. The message was always the same: move in the ashram if you want the fastest, most devoted path. Of course, there were V.I.Premies who were getting round this, and in fact we were among them for a while, living in ashram-hotels as a couple (because we had money, mainly), but the pressure was still on all the time. If you were in that environment, you know how intense it was.

This one thing was the thing that wounded me most about the cult. I was so torn I thought I would split in two. My privileged status allowed me to be with Maharaji in situations (like the infamous Tucson conference with its chilling verbal abuse by MJ) at which he was really giving the hard line about devotion. I almost did break in two. I got really sick from the stress of it, and am still recovering.

I feel that the way MJ treated people's relationships and families was one of the worst things he did. Fortunately, I hung in there, going to pre-ashram meetings with my then-husband, until he got around to re-dissolving the ashrams again. Imagine if I had broken my marriage, as many did, only to be tossed aside, a Bride of the Mirage without a Mirage to imagine myself married to!

Did stuff like this happen to any of you?

love Kathryn Darling

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Date: Mon, Feb 28, 2000 at 04:29:21 (GMT)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: KMDARLING
Subject: great post Katie. You always have insight. (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Sun, Feb 27, 2000 at 16:19:21 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: KMDARLING
Subject: The ashram
Message:
Kathryn,
I resisted the ashram on the first go round, but with the revival, I succumbed. I thought, oh, I'm screwed up anyway and probably won't get a girlfriend, so I'll move in. I didn't think about WHY I was screwed up. I had a girlfriend before I received k, I wasn't comfortable with women, but I was going in the right direction. Before I moved in, M had already laid his 'sex trip' trip on me, which just reinforced my problems. There were plenty of women who were attracted to me, but I was already getting fanatical. I remember bringing a woman to satsang, she wasn't interested, so I wasn't interested in her, even though she was attractive. She said 'You're just trying to convert me.' She was very hurt. Basically, the same thing happened with other women. It makes me sad and angry recalling this.

So I moved in, got really into the heaviness. All the while, I actually, in reality, hated the whole thing. It was like an addiction, I wanted to move out but thought I couldn't. So when m closed them, I was crushed in two ways. Before they closed, where I was, things started to loosen up a little bit, like you could handle your own finances. I got stuck with thousands in debt and just my few worn out clothes and a foam mattress. Before they closed completely, there was an ashram 'purge'. Only the 'elite' were left (didn't include me) and then the last one was closed. I remember some 'brothers' who formed a pseudo-ashram and I was invited. I declined. Someone asked me 'Don't you want to be humble?' I said 'NO!!!'.

After I moved out, I remember crying like I had never cried before afterwards, like the one I loved had died. I pathetically sang arti a few times, crying while I sang. Thankfully, that didn't last long. For me, that was it for the total devotion trip.

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Date: Sun, Feb 27, 2000 at 16:41:57 (GMT)
From: KMDARLING
Email: darlingwave@aol.com
To: G
Subject: The ashram..... AAAAAARRRRRRGGGGGHHHHH!
Message:
Aaaaaaaarrrrrrgggghhhh!

Sorry that happened to you!

How's your sex/love-life now? Mine's great (blissfully remarried) after a few blips along the way.

My husband also lived in an ashram 15 years ago (Muktananda's) WITH his wife and kids, and says there was absolutely no trip about them separating and he never felt made wrong for sex and love. In fact he remembers his ashram experience with glee and only left when has guru died.

I'm trying to pull apart the stuff that was just yer basic Eastern trip, and the stuff that was really toxic manipulation for greedy purposes.

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Date: Sun, Feb 27, 2000 at 23:19:27 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: KMDARLING
Subject: The ashram
Message:
It hasn't been great. I'm a recent ex, maybe things will change. I was hung up on having a premie girlfriend or turning a woman into one. Even if I didn't push it, women I met and girlfriends would be turned off. One was turned off by me barely and vaguely mentioned k and m. I think they sensed something was wrong. Another women I met was a pretty much an ex and when I told her I was a premie she was turned off.

One girlfriend received k but didn't want to worship m, only did the techniques for a short time. She was interested in meditation, but was turned off by m. Also, I've been resistant to getting married, maybe afraid I would be 'taken away from m'.

For a brief time I tried just having sex, using women, but I felt guilty and it was empty. Hardly happened at all, don't get the wrong idea. I decided not to do that.

I've felt unmotivated, feeling what's the use, they will be turned off eventually anyway and won't get into m&k, I'll hold off waiting for a premie woman. And with fewer premies and the social interaction minimized, well, it was a long wait, I only dated one once. I believe that even being minimally involved with m was effecting my mental state, given what happened in the past and the continued vague worship of him, and that didn't help things. I had to realize that 'getting off the fence' didn't mean I would self-destruct, and that I can meditate the way I want to, or not meditate and not fall apart. Fear of falling apart for lack of meditating is NOT a good motivation to meditate.

Also some stuff happened to me that I won't mention.

BTW, I think the current vagueness/sneakiness that premies are into is a real turn off. At least before it was a more honest lie!

So now I need to realize that the so-called restriction is gone. I don't have to worry about a woman 'taking me away from m' or them being turned off to me because of m.

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Date: Mon, Feb 28, 2000 at 01:08:07 (GMT)
From: Jackie
Email: None
To: G
Subject: Nouveau Covertness
Message:
Dear G,

The vagueness is nothing more than an embarrassment on the behalf of premies. It's turned into covertness and people now if they ever do get in to it really don't know what they are getting into and where their money is going. M is being really covert & unethical to the point of getting PAMs people to lie for him. This secretive yacht thing should make premies puke but somehow it doesn't. Must be all the brain-washing.

Love,

Jackie

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Date: Mon, Feb 28, 2000 at 20:03:58 (GMT)
From: cqg
Email: None
To: Jackie
Subject: Nouveau Covertness?
Message:
Nouveau Covertness?

you say: 'M is being really covert & unethical to the point of getting PAMs people to lie for him.

can you say a little more about how?





P.S.
'PAM's People' used to dance on TOTP (Top of the Pops) here in the UK circa the 1970's. I take it you're referring to PAMs as in 'Premies Around Maharaj' yes? No?

Silly me. Obviously.

(Though, on second thoughts ... who knows whether any of Pam's People became PAMs?)


Sod it. Must be paranoia.

I guess.

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Date: Thurs, Feb 24, 2000 at 20:34:53 (GMT)
From: cqg
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: And ANOTHER one!
Message:
'So obey my command, or else you will be drowned.' (last paragraph)
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Date: Fri, Feb 25, 2000 at 18:38:32 (GMT)
From: dj
Email: None
To: cqg
Subject: And ANOTHER one!
Message:
Everybody gets peace, only you do not?
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Date: Fri, Feb 25, 2000 at 19:08:48 (GMT)
From: cqg
Email: None
To: dj
Subject: You get 'peace' from obeying his commands then?
Message:
You get 'peace' from obeying his commands then?

Apparently he claims not to:

'Had I liked sleeping on a luxurious bed, I would have been doing so by now and enjoying it, but I do not want pleasure or rest.
I only want to devote every moment to propagating about God.'

For suuuuuuuuuurrrrre...

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Date: Fri, Feb 25, 2000 at 19:37:19 (GMT)
From: dj
Email: None
To: cqg
Subject: You get 'peace' from obeying his commands then?
Message:
What do you propagate?
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Date: Fri, Feb 25, 2000 at 20:17:23 (GMT)
From: cqg
Email: None
To: dj
Subject: You could answer my question first ...
Message:
You mean 'propagate' as in:

'To breed, to produce offspring; to reproduce itself, i.e. its kind; to multiply or spread by generation or other form of reproduction.'

or

'To hand down from one generation to another; to pass on to one’s descendants; to reproduce in the offspring.'

or

'To extend the action or operation of; to transmit, spread, convey (motion, light, sound, etc.) in some direction, or through some medium.'

(OED definitions)




But I'll take a guess at what you meant by the question:

What do I propagate? Just another viewpoint (hopefully one that might encourage you to empower yourself towards viewing your present position from another angle, - i.e. re-evaluate /widen your perspective?)

'A faith untested is a faith that is weak'

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Date: Thurs, Feb 24, 2000 at 20:22:37 (GMT)
From: cqg
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: 'Establish peace' - means what?
Message:
Jean-Michel's site really has some hum-dingers from the ol' Maha. Recent premies are gonna freak

Check this one ... (picture too!)

'I swear on the Bible that I will establish peace in the world'

..and there's more!

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Date: Fri, Feb 25, 2000 at 03:00:26 (GMT)
From: PEACE OR PIECE ?
Email: None
To: cqg
Subject: 'Establish peace' - means what? did he mean to
Message:
say piece and we heard peace? He is the piece he wanted to establish in the world. Piece of shit. He wanted to establish shit on the whole world! How silly of us. He'll blame all on his shitty accent someday?

Shitsatcheatandend

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Date: Fri, Feb 25, 2000 at 19:02:39 (GMT)
From: dj
Email: None
To: PEACE OR PIECE ?
Subject: 'Establish peace' - means what? did he mean to
Message:
Shit sat cheat and end.
Jai sat chit anand.
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Date: Thurs, Feb 24, 2000 at 19:46:12 (GMT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Can Maharaji get your taxes?
Message:
I was reading a little about how the Christian right in America has been doing all it can, for the past decade, to divert federal funding into sectarian programs that set themselves up as beneficial to society. One such program is Charitable Choice, a welfare reform program which allows public funding of sectarian institutions. My question is, isn't Elan Vital such an institution? I think it was Sir D who posted that EV qualified as a charity and held legal status as such.

That being the case, I think if Maharaji wanted to, he could really press a case that his organization qualifies for federal funding. I mean, with all the talk going on these days on how it's spiritual vacancy that's the cause of society's ills, maybe EV could convince some yo-yo's on Capitol Hill that Maharaji's just the ticket for curing those ills. Hey Maharaji, if you're reading this, I'd go for it man. Maybe you can't get anymore contributions from those ex-premie ingrates, but who needs contributions when you can get your greedy little paws on their taxes? Maybe you can set up some kind of deal where they can deduct it right from their paychecks.

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Date: Fri, Feb 25, 2000 at 14:47:48 (GMT)
From: David
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: Can Maharaji get your taxes?
Message:
Please can you help me, I have freinds that will not accept me anymore(girlfreind) included.

We live in england and my freinds travell alot to venues ie Australia mexico..

My girlfreind has said we should split up because my reluctance to join them .. A group of twenty. I feel she has changed, I do not want to loose her, she says its the best thing that has happened to her in her life .

What suspitions should i have and could I have a reason to be worried about this following.
I have not heard of him before and do not understand the concept

dwbranch@hotmail.com I f you have time

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Date: Fri, Feb 25, 2000 at 17:23:53 (GMT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: David
Subject: The concept
Message:
I have not heard of him before and do not understand the concept

Maharaji thinks he's God's gift to the world and you're nobody without him. You can take it from there. Do you want him to be your guiding light, to hang on every word he says, to believe that he knows what you need to know and that you should dedicate your life to him to find out what that is? That's what it's all about.

Maharaji used to command his devotees to REMOVE ALL DOUBT FROM YOUR MIND. In other words, don't think about it. Just believe it. If you have doubts, it's just your mind getting in the way of the truth, as Maharaji sees it, of course. Never mind how you see it. To Maharaji, you're just the devotee and, as such, have no idea what the truth is. To him, you should desire nothing but to be an empty vessel to be filled by whatever he wants to pour into you, which supposedly is true love and wisdom. Check out your girlfriend and your other premie friends. Do they look like that's what Maharaji poured into them? Or do they look, perhaps, a little flaky in the head?

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Date: Thurs, Feb 24, 2000 at 09:02:50 (GMT)
From: Keith
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Class action suit
Message:
Just read Anon's previous elaborate post. Wow! Anon did you hit on much of my experience from beginning to end.

So was this not fraud?.. the promises wrapped in lies: to give peace, being God. The result: parts of whole lives stifled, families torn apart, careers and minds stifled, maybe more so to victims of those who have vows. Others who still suffer mental illness, those who committed suicide for the guilt of not achieving enough.

He is and was a liar, and obtained at least most of his wealth under false pretense.

Is there enough to hit him where it may hurt.. in his pocket book?

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Date: Sat, Feb 26, 2000 at 04:33:02 (GMT)
From: Scott T.
Email: None
To: Keith
Subject: Class action suit
Message:
Keith:

I missed Anon's post, but it seems to me that a jury might regard the willingness to believe a claim to godhood to be contributory negligence. The legal structure wasn't really set up to deal with cults. Mind control has been used as a defense, of course. The Patty Hearst trial comes to mind. But in that case there was actual physical restraint involved. Was Anon's proposal for real?

--Scott

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Date: Thurs, Feb 24, 2000 at 15:21:25 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: Keith
Subject: Class action suit: The guru is a fraud !!
Message:
Hi Keith,

When I began posting on this forums I asked similar questions and never got answers. Maharaji is so wrong and still is getting away with it? I like what Mishler said about Rawat.

Section from Bob Mishler's radio interview:

Maharaji changes mind about retiring in 1976. (Back to index)

Bob:'This was something that Maharaji and I arrived at as being necessary not only for the devotees but also for his own welfare as well. That was to change this belief that he was God, by actually coming out and denying it, and by taking some responsibility to de-program our own membership away from this belief. This was so that he wouldn't become the kind of cult leader that in fact he has become today.

About half way through 1976, Maharaji got very insecure about what was going to happen to him if we continued with this. He realised that he was going to lose his automatic hold over the devotees that he had had up until that point'.

Host: 'Was this a conscious thing on his part'?

Bob: 'Oh, yes. This was a very conscious thing. We discussed it, and we outlined all the different perspectives that would be involved. At the time, what I had planned for him and with him, and up to the middle of 1976 he was largely agreeing with, was to use a lot of the money that had come to him in the form of gifts from his followers, to set up some investments. This would enable him to become financially independent from the continued support of the devotees.

He had grown accustomed to a very luxurious lifestyle. A lot of the necessity of keeping the members believing that he was God was to ensure that they would continue to support him in this lifestyle. If it meant that he was going to have to make any sacrifices in this lifestyle (and it had become apparent by the middle of 1976 that this was going to be the case) then he didn't really want to have to do that.

That's where we came to a parting of the ways, so to speak. As a result of that, I just left, because I recognised that I couldn't change him. If he wanted to change on his own, then that was something I was very willing to assist with. If he wasn't going to change, then I certainly wasn't going to continue to stay while he turned what was originally a mission to spread meditation to people freely into something that solicited donations to do this type of work and had all of its funds essentially going to support his luxurious lifestyle.'


God became just a greedy young man. Maybe the exes lawyers can give their point of view. Such a shame the way we were deceived!
He never came clean and clarify anything! This is why many devotees still think he's God. Shame on you Rawat, greedy bastard.

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Date: Thurs, Feb 24, 2000 at 18:46:11 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: SB
Subject: Class action suit: The guru is a fraud !!
Message:
SB this issue has been brought up and addressed in lenght
quite often over the months since 97 when I started reading and
posting here.
I know it must be in many places in the archives.
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Date: Thurs, Feb 24, 2000 at 18:54:07 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: Is true, but most premies lurking don't read the a
Message:
IMHO I think is a good idea to put it here once in a while, at least to catch their curiosity in learning about their master. Thanks for you advice. I am sure it must be there somewhere. I still haven't have the time to read all what is there from 1997, as many, I supposse. :)
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Date: Thurs, Feb 24, 2000 at 19:26:17 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: SB
Subject: Is true, but most premies lurking don't read the a
Message:
I know. One idea I've played with is having more pages on this site for stuff like that. Of course the one with the idea get to do it right ?
And I am thinking it could be easy, dig up the archives put the stuff into some kind of chronological order. Try to sererate the more literary comments from the more hard factoid type ones, (not that I am placing any value higher on one or the other) but it would be a good idea for a link here on ex-premie.org.
BUT here's tht thing;
From what I am recalling, it always came to the same thing; that there isn't really enough hard stuff for that type of suit. And the debates would go on and on and would be repeats of the older ones.
Which does make an argument for consolidation and a link.
I feel like I am in a loop here...

time for a
control - D

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Date: Fri, Feb 25, 2000 at 19:11:08 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: can you tell me?
Message:
Hi Selene,

You wrote:

I know. One idea I've played with is having more pages on this site for stuff like that. Of course the one with the idea get to do it right?

Do you mean you want to do it? It sounds good to have that here.

From what I am recalling, it always came to the same thing; that there isn't really enough hard stuff for that type of suit. And the debates would go on and on and would be repeats of the older ones.
Which does make an argument for consolidation and a link.
I feel like I am in a loop here...

Can you elaborate on this? Hard stuff?

S

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Date: Fri, Feb 25, 2000 at 21:43:18 (GMT)
From: selene internet addict
Email: None
To: SB
Subject: SB I had a waking nightmare just now
Message:
I am here at work daydreaming. I'm imagining
myself going through the archives collecting stuff.
I find all this good data. Now I start to compile
it and some is posted by X and some is post by
Y and X hates Y. Then along comes Z who has
contributed all these good facts. Both X AND Y like
Z and first then they both end up hating Z.
So here comes Selene. She decides to take out all
the headers. So X Y and Z all get mad. So she puts
them back in.
The the war begins again between X and Y then between
X and Y and Z,
SB here is what I will do for you!!
I'll get the stuff and compile it and send it to
you in email!!! Yikes!!!!!
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Date: Fri, Feb 25, 2000 at 20:05:29 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: SB
Subject: can you tell me?
Message:
Yeah I think I do want to do it. Why not? I don't know if
'they' want to link to it. I don't even know for sure who they
are!!
But I could give a try at running though the stuff in the archives and putting something together and seeing in anyone wants to add it to the site. My reasoning is this is a thread that has been repeated so often there must be enough interest. Why not add it? Unless it is deemed too controversial I sem to step in that one a lot :)
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Date: Fri, Feb 25, 2000 at 20:43:30 (GMT)
From: cqg
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: step in that one a lot?
Message:
Some things in life are bad
They can really make you mad
Other things just make you swear and curse
When you're chewing life's gristle
Don't grumble, give a whistle
And this'll help thing turn out for the best . . .

And . . .
(whistle)
Always look on the bright side of life
(whistle)
If life seems jolly rotten
There's something you've forgotten
And that's to laugh and smile and dance and sing,
When you're feeling in the dumps,
Don't be silly chumps
Just purse your lips and whistle - that's the thing.
And . . . always look on the bright side of life
(whistle)
Always look on the bright side of life . . .
(whistle)

For life is quite absurd
And death's the final word
You must always face the curtain with a bow
Forget about your sin - give the audience a grin
Enjoy it - it's your last chance anyhow.

So always look on the bright side of death
(whistle)
Just before you draw your terminal breath
(whistle)
Life's a piece of shit
When you look at it

Life's a laugh and death's a joke it's true
You'll see it's all a show,
Keep 'em laughing as you go
Just remember the last laugh is on you.

And always look at the bright side of life . . .
(whistle)
Always look at the bright side of life
(whistles)

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Date: Fri, Feb 25, 2000 at 21:29:36 (GMT)
From: Hal
Email: None
To: cqg
Subject: step in that one a lot?
Message:
Dear cqg,

You are surely a Brit to be quoting Monty Python humour. Am I right?

If you are then it would account for your incisive wit and intellect.

Love Hal

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Date: Fri, Feb 25, 2000 at 21:43:10 (GMT)
From: cqg
Email: None
To: Hal
Subject: 'Flattery will get you everywhere'... ;) (nt)
Message:
'Flattery will get you everywhere' ;) (nt)
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Date: Fri, Feb 25, 2000 at 20:47:38 (GMT)
From: selene
Email: None
To: cqg
Subject: are you talking to me? :)
Message:
uh....ok cqg .... I'll attempt to view
American Beauty with that in mind.

hahahahaha guess you haven't seen it.

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Date: Fri, Feb 25, 2000 at 21:29:19 (GMT)
From: cqg
Email: None
To: selene
Subject: Not yet! :) (nt)
Message:
Not yet! :) (nt)
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Date: Fri, Feb 25, 2000 at 21:37:55 (GMT)
From: selene
Email: None
To: cqg
Subject: just wondered it is
Message:
somewhat apprpriate it a dark humor way
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Date: Fri, Feb 25, 2000 at 21:44:22 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: selene
Subject: Dark... yes, and luverly ... (Oh Shiva!) (nt)
Message:
Dark... yes, and luverly ... (Oh Shiva!) (nt)
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Date: Wed, Feb 23, 2000 at 07:44:32 (GMT)
From: Hal
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Corruption of a minor
Message:

Since distancing myself recently from M I have spent most of my time thinking about it all.

I've been imagining how difficult it must have been for that shy little boy being told by all around him that he was the perfect one. That he was responsible for all their happiness.He was only a toddler at that time.

Remembering the early films of him he was a cute,chubby kid who loved to laugh and play.

My eldest son is now 14 ,the same age as maharaji was when he came to the West.What a burden for a child to bear, being expected to inspire and play God to people who were all older and more worldly wise.It must have been traumatic , to say the least.

Over the years I imagine he has had an incredibly diffi(cult)time.Having all the ashram premies totally dependant on him was a real pain I'm sure.It wouldn't be at all surprising if he needed a tipple to relax,I would.

I re-read Bob Mischler's interview recently. It seems he had plenty of compassion for M's predicament. I got the impression that he was following his integrity in leaving and there was no bitterness, as I once thought.

It's really a sad story. As a father myself I feel much love and compassion for that little boy who became so confused and corrupted by it all.

Many times, over the years,listening to his discourses , I felt that he was uninspired and didn't have a clue what to talk about. Of ccourse at the time I wrote that thought off and blamed myself for not being open enough.

So those mountainous demands upon him continue to this day.Wouldn't it be a true act of love for him if the premies allowed him release from the responsibility of it all? Allowed him to enjoy the rest of his life without them putting all their hopes on him.

Maharaji,take a break,enjoy your family.Become friends with the premies who love you,not their master.Enjoy your life as Prempal,liberate yourself from the awesome responsibility that we all laid on your door. Retire now.

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Date: Thurs, Feb 24, 2000 at 20:31:51 (GMT)
From: Hal
Email: None
To: Hal
Subject: ok I see i'm too soft on the bastard !
Message:
d
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Date: Wed, Feb 23, 2000 at 23:31:30 (GMT)
From: Fred
Email: None
To: Hal
Subject: Corruption of a minor
Message:
I wish he could just step down from the divine, holiness, god type element. Let him just be a guy with something decent to say every once in awhile and everybody can be free.

'nobody led you on
they left that to you
now you'll be alone
when the sun comes up
with your tattered little dreams
and a broken cup
then you'll have to
trust yourself
and don't believe in any more lies'

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Date: Wed, Feb 23, 2000 at 21:17:20 (GMT)
From: Brian
Email: brian@tigerriver.com
To: Hal
Subject: Corruption of a minor
Message:
I've been imagining how difficult it must have been for that shy little boy being told by all around him that he was the perfect one. That he was responsible for all their happiness.

I think you're projecting here, Hal. Maharaji was never a shy little boy, however he might have looked in any particular photo. He certainly didn't look shy sitting on that throne in any that I've seen.

According to his own website, his father used him as an 'attractor' - having him stand up and give discourse in public places. Crowds gathered to witness the oddity, and then Hans would take over and preach to the 'attracted'. There's no reason to believe that he wasn't already outgoing and theatrical beforehand. Otherwise, Hans wouldn't have risked him getting up there and having nothing to say. I've also heard stories about that 'shy little boy' taking a stick to fully-grown mahatmas to wake them up and tell them to 'realize Knowledge'.

The youngest child is usually far more pampered and catered to in any family, and most families aren't surrounded by thousands of worshiping devotees.

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Date: Thurs, Feb 24, 2000 at 04:00:47 (GMT)
From: Hal
Email: None
To: Brian
Subject: About that stick
Message:
Dear Brian,

I thought I'd heard all the stories over the years. I hadn't come across that one though.

The nearest to that story I'd heard of was when he was 2-3 yrs old he used to wake them up in the morning to meditate and I don't think he would have caused any serious injury at that age, even if there was a stick lying around.

Becoming a father of 2 sons made me a lot more understanding of children's sometimes very unaware behaviour.
Men who havn't parented sometimes find it hard to get out of the macho side and into the more tender loving part. At the birth of my first son the experience was overwhelming. The way that I thought knowledge would be but wasn't. I'm trying to justify being soft on Maha...... maybe this is the wrong place for that.

Hal

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Date: Thurs, Feb 24, 2000 at 16:36:17 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: Hal
Subject: About that stick
Message:
The way he words it on his web site is 'I loved to awaken the staff by reminding them to practice the techniques of Knowledge imparted by my Father.' This was from a page from his 'Journey'.

His wording is a bit vague. If he did use a stick, I can see him not wanting to say that. It seems rather presumptuous for someone to wake up someone else with a stick.

A confession: While in the ashram, I used to wake people up for Arti and meditation. One morning, someone didn't want to wake up yet, so I YELLED at him 'JAI SAT CHIT ANAND!' at least once. Later, he reminded me of it by yelling back 'JAI SAT CHIT ANAND!'. I was pretty embarrassed.

Notice the fancy word 'imparted' and the 'F' in 'Father' (as in God the Father?).

Also the wording 'the staff', these 'mahatmas' or 'great souls' are just 'the staff' to him.

BTW, who used the word journey first, the ex-premies or him?

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Date: Thurs, Feb 24, 2000 at 17:27:17 (GMT)
From: Jethro
Email: None
To: G
Subject: What about Gary Gerrard's nose
Message:
When m met his first wave of western devotees(circa 1970), he broke the nose of gary gerrard with a stick.
When Gary made some sort of noise(ie being in pain), m retorted with 'Would you rather I didn't touch you?', the implication being that he (gary) should be grateful that the Lord even touched him.

In case anyone is wondering, I was not there, but was told this by one of the western premies who was there. I know this person reads this site and would ask him to participate here, particularly after he expressed to me recently that he could debate with people here in a rather better way than the premies who have been coming here.

Regards Jethro

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Date: Thurs, Feb 24, 2000 at 18:49:27 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: Jethro
Subject: Is Gery still with Lard, do you know? (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Sat, Feb 26, 2000 at 17:19:16 (GMT)
From: Joey
Email: None
To: SB
Subject: Is Gery still with Lard, do you know? (nt)
Message:
SB,

I have it on good authority that Gary Girard is STILL a premie.

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Date: Thurs, Feb 24, 2000 at 20:53:17 (GMT)
From: Jethro
Email: None
To: SB
Subject: I've no idea(nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Fri, Feb 25, 2000 at 04:24:46 (GMT)
From: enemy
Email: None
To: Jethro
Subject: no
Message:
Gary Girrard stopped being seen by me at the so called
'festivals' around the end of the 70's and the very early eighties.

rawat was one cruel insane meglomaniac, still is, just
older and altered.

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Date: Fri, Feb 25, 2000 at 18:50:43 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: enemy
Subject: Thanks. (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Thurs, Feb 24, 2000 at 04:52:15 (GMT)
From: Brian
Email: brian@tigerriver.com
To: Hal
Subject: About that stick
Message:
I don't think he would have caused any serious injury at that age, even if there was a stick lying around.

I didn't mean that he was brutal, or was able to cause harm. Only that he was far from being a shy little boy.

I've felt pity for the person who gave the peace bomb satsang, and for the person who Mishler describes in his interview.

In the former case, I think he really believed that somehow 'his' Guru Maharaj Ji/father would magically act through him to empower his best intentions (I realize I'm only assuming them here).

In the latter case, I am probably doing some projecting on my own, and picturing a young kid who has absolutely no adult controls in his life. All those devotees willing to give him whatever he asks for. That seems sad to me somehow.

But, face it. He's made a conscious choice in the passing years to continue a profitable pretense.

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Date: Thurs, Feb 24, 2000 at 01:05:57 (GMT)
From: bb
Email: None
To: Brian
Subject: mom knows best
Message:
I got kids here that want to rule the world.
Believe me, a 7 year old can be plenty lord of the
universe-ish.

But it was his own crap that he manufactured
and some kid god almightys would have gotten around to talking to mom after say............15 years
and not just waited till she dropped
dead after 18 years to wake up to the fact that he was an
stupid asshole.

BY the way, Brian, thanks for making code for the nose!
Most considerate of you.

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Date: Thurs, Feb 24, 2000 at 04:42:55 (GMT)
From: Brian
Email: brian@tigerriver.com
To: bb
Subject: Ah, the nose
Message:
BY the way, Brian, thanks for making code for the nose!

Neither Katie or I could figure out what you meant at first. Took a while, but we finally got it.

Yes, you can now even look to the *<* if you want :)

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Date: Wed, Feb 23, 2000 at 15:46:54 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: Hal
Subject: His master gave him the Agya/order
Message:
Shri Hans ask M to propagate K around the world! His duty is to please his master, otherwise he would be desobeying him. He is going to keep on going until something from the outside stops'em. I think that on his own he would never stop. And Hal, yes, premies support his 'master' trip, but who created the premies? He did. Maharaji should give premies a brake: He lives comfortable and cared for 24/7. Premies? Just servants.

Glad to see you doing good! I enjoy your posts.

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Date: Wed, Feb 23, 2000 at 21:58:49 (GMT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: SB
Subject: Or so the rumour goes
Message:
There's conflicting stories on how Maharaji rose to his divine throne. One story is that, originally, the oldest brother, Satpal, known as Bal Bhagwan Ji, or the incarnation of divine intelligence, was slated to become God after papa died, er, left his body. But some upstart mahatmas had already placed Maharaji on the throne, and since it wouldn't have loked very good if there was confusion among the elite as to who the true successor was, the mother of God, Mata Ji, who really wanted her eldest son on that throne, decided to play along. I think somewhere on JM's site is the whole story on how the farce began.
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Date: Wed, Feb 23, 2000 at 22:41:24 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: Or so the rumour goes
Message:
I heard that before. Lard though, always said in the past, and lately too that his father asked him to do it. You are right, he could have made that up. And what a farce it has been!
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Date: Thurs, Feb 24, 2000 at 11:41:28 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: SB
Subject: Here's the quote: Prempal actually hallucinated!!!
Message:
Here is the quote:

He didn't want to be a satguru

Here's an excerpt:

'I went home (from school) and everyone was weeping. I was just sitting there not weeping and something began to happen to me. I began to feel that I am not this body, that I could not move these lips. I always thought that the soul would leave by the mouth, but my mouth was shut. Still I felt like I was leaving my body and my soul was everywhere going out. And this voice came to me saying, 'You are he, you are the one to continue.'
Then I puzzled over the voice. Thirteen days later, I was doing pranam to my Father's ashes and bones. You know, in India they burn the bodies and thirteen days later you go and collect the ashes. I bent down to touch the ashes, the voice came: 'You are he. You are the one to go and give this to the world.' '

I remember him recalling this in the 90s.

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Date: Thurs, Feb 24, 2000 at 09:04:32 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: SB
Subject: Hans told him in DREAMS ! RAWAT SAID SO
Message:
Lard though, always said in the past, and lately too that his father asked him to do it. You are right, he could have made that up.

Try to remember how Prempal said that. I guess it's in some videos, and in published satsangs - I have it on my website. He had dreams, and Hans came in his dreams/hallucinations.

I also remember a time when he used to say we shouldn't follow agyas received in dreams .......

He's the one who teaches and doesn't follow his teachings.

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Date: Thurs, Feb 24, 2000 at 09:09:02 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: and Hans was not expecting a sudden death !
Message:
He died tripping on a soap bar in his bathroom. That was an accident.

That's why Prempal was at school on that day. Do you really think anybody in the Divine Residence would mind his business when the Lord would enter samadhi ?

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Date: Thurs, Feb 24, 2000 at 15:36:09 (GMT)
From: Sb
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: and Hans was not expecting a sudden death !
Message:
Honestly that is how Shri Hans died??
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Date: Thurs, Feb 24, 2000 at 17:49:59 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Sb
Subject: Soap is lethal for Indian gurus, no joke
Message:
This is not a rumor. Some exes heard that in India long time ago.
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Date: Thurs, Feb 24, 2000 at 18:44:18 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Soap is lethal for Indian gurus, no joke: hahahaha
Message:
I love your humor!
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Date: Fri, Feb 25, 2000 at 08:37:27 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: SB
Subject: Salt's much better to immortalize the fat ass
Message:
I remember this documentary I saw on TV a few month back.

It was on Indian gurus. One of them had just passed away, and they were showing that huge hole they made to keep his body for ever in the temple/ashram's yard. They intended to fill it with salt, and have him seated in the middle of it !

I guess they're to shy to momify them like they did in Egypt and some places in S-Am. Can you imagine premies removing the divine brain through the nostrils? Maybe they don't have much of it, and that would be too much to find this...


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Date: Wed, Feb 23, 2000 at 13:55:58 (GMT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Hal
Subject: He's no longer a minor
Message:
Maharaji,take a break,enjoy your family. Become
friends with the premies who love you,not their
master. Enjoy your life as Prempal,liberate yourself from the awesome responsibility that we all laid on your door. Retire now.

That's a really sweet and heartfelt offer, Hal. Probably as sincere and honest an offer he's ever been given by a prem... excuse me, ex-premie. But I doubt he's interested in taking you up on it.

I've thought like you. Poor little Maharaji. But the truth is that poor little Maharaji isn't so little anymore. And not so poor either. He can step down anytime he wants to. If he had any humility in him, he would have long ago. But the pay is good, and like they say, 'It's good to be the king'.

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Date: Wed, Feb 23, 2000 at 15:38:21 (GMT)
From: cqg
Email: None
To: Hal and Jerry
Subject: and to step down would mean him having to admit...
Message:
...and to step down would mean him having to admit that he'd been wrong.

Apparently Sagittarians have a hard time with that
(though he could at least TRY!)

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Date: Wed, Feb 23, 2000 at 18:45:52 (GMT)
From: Hal
Email: None
To: cqg
Subject: and to step down would mean him having to admit...
Message:
It's interesting to me that you mention Saggitarians. I'm one and eventually I admitted that I was wrong. You see we saggies are basically truthful but often blinded by our ego.
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Date: Thurs, Feb 24, 2000 at 02:03:49 (GMT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: Hal
Subject: and to step down would mean him having to admit...
Message:
Dear Hal,
I know Jerry's birthday is in Dec. (I don't think you objected to the date being on the forum but since I am not sure I'll leave it out), so what is yours, Hal, if you don't mind sharing it?
I don't think you were around on your b-day Jerry and I have been quite neglectful of my goddess duties so I hope you had a happy one, my belated wish that it will be a good year for you.
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Thurs, Feb 24, 2000 at 19:12:54 (GMT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Robyn
Subject: David Blaine revisited
Message:
Hey Robyn,

Did you happen to watch channel 5's presentation of 'Street Magicians' Secrets Finally Revealed?' Virtually every trick Blaine performed on his television special was explored and the secrets on how he did it was revealed. If you didn't get to see the show, you can buy the video. Not that you'd want to, but if you did you could get it by clicking here. In the meantime, let me see if I can do one of the tricks. Pick a two digit number up to 50. The only condition is that both digits have to be odd. Got a number? When you do, post that you're ready and I'll post back what number you're thinking of.

Don't worry that you didn't post a Happy Birthday to me. It's good enough to know that the goddess at least thought of me. I would have only got self conscious if you did anyway.

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Date: Thurs, Feb 24, 2000 at 19:37:48 (GMT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: David Blaine revisited
Message:
Hey Jerry,
This is a fun game! :)
OK, I've got the number.
Do your magic stuff! :)
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Thurs, Feb 24, 2000 at 19:59:57 (GMT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Robyn
Subject: Hmmm, let me see...
Message:
Is it 37?
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Date: Thurs, Feb 24, 2000 at 21:13:17 (GMT)
From: Roby
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: Hmmm, let me see...
Message:
Dear Jerry the Magnificant!!! :)
Wow, I thought about picking 17 but went with 37! Will you tell all? PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :)
Love,
Robyn your loyal fan :)
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Date: Thurs, Feb 24, 2000 at 21:51:07 (GMT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Roby
Subject: It's magic!
Message:
You're not really asking a magician to reveal his secrets, are you? Well, OK. There are only 8 possible numbers up to 50 that meet the requirements of being a two digit number where both digits are odd. Supposedly, the law of probability dictates that more often than not, people will choose the number 37. I don't know how true this is. I would think that each number has an equal chance of being picked. Why wouldn't they? But that's what they say. To be honest, you're the third or fourth person I tried this with and you're the only one, so far, who picked 37. Maybe you're the psychic and are reading my mind!
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Date: Thurs, Feb 24, 2000 at 22:30:45 (GMT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: It's magic!
Message:
Dear Jerry,
'To be honest, you're the third or fourth person I tried this with and you're the only one, so far, who picked 37. Maybe you're the psychic and are reading my mind!'
THAT MUST BE IT!!!! :) I would have chosen 17 if I wasn't getting your signals to pick 37!!!
Can you bring a dead fly back to life or get a penny inside someones shoe or levitate!? Can you do those over the internet! :) Almost as good as a nightclub act for this countrybumpkin! :)
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Fri, Feb 25, 2000 at 00:15:21 (GMT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Robyn
Subject: The dead fly
Message:
The 'dead' fly was actually kept in a cryogenic cooler before Blaine did the trick. When the fly's normal body temperature returned, it looked like it returned to life and flew away.

The levitation trick was complete bullshit. There's a way that you can position yourself where you stand on one toe with both heels together and you look like you're levitating. This will make it look like you've levitated an inch or two. What Blaine did to make it look like he levitated more was film the audience's reaction to his actual one inch 'levitation' and then, later, when the crowd was gone, had himself hoisted by a wench and used the filmed audiences reaction to make it look like they were in awe of the wench assisted levitation. It was nothing more than a simple editing job, and pure bullshit. He deserved to have his secret revealed on this one.

They didn't get into the penny in the shoe trick, or I missed it if they did. I tuned in late. But if I recall it correctly, that was a playing card in the shoe trick. Wasn't it? You're talking about the cop, right? Hey, maybe they didn't reveal the secret to this one because it's really legit! Huh! You think so!?

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Date: Sat, Feb 26, 2000 at 19:00:29 (GMT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: Did I say 'wench'?
Message:
I meant 'winch'. I've been waiting for somebody to correct me on this, but so far nobody has. While I suppose it's possible to be levitated by a 'wench', what Blaine really was levitated by was a 'winch'. (gulp, redface, sheepish grin, heh, heh, heh....)
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Date: Sun, Feb 27, 2000 at 05:54:20 (GMT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: Did I say 'wench'?
Message:
Dear Jerry,
Maybe that means no one else was reading this! :) I didn't catch it for sure! :)
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Sun, Feb 27, 2000 at 15:39:25 (GMT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Robyn
Subject: Did I say 'wench'?
Message:
Maybe that means no one else was reading this! :)

That's possible, Robyn. Either that or they didn't catch it. Or if they did, they didn't care. Who cares? Wench, winch, what's the difference? If you've been hoisted by one, you might as well be hoisted by the other.

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Date: Sun, Feb 27, 2000 at 20:03:49 (GMT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: Did I say 'wench'?
Message:
Jerry,
'If you've been hoisted by one, you might as well be hoisted by the other.'
Too funny, you had me laughing with this one! :) I lift weights but am only at about 55 lbs so this wench won't be lifting you! :)
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Fri, Feb 25, 2000 at 01:19:18 (GMT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: The dead fly
Message:
Dear Jerry,
'They didn't get into the penny in the shoe trick, or I missed it if they did. I tuned in late. But if I recall it correctly, that was a playing card in the shoe trick. Wasn't it? You're talking about the cop, right?
Hey, maybe they didn't reveal the secret to this one because it's
really legit! Huh! You think so!?'

No, I knew none of it was legit, it was just good! Yes it was a card not a penny, a cop's shoe. I was thinking it was a fly and knew that wasn't it so I just said a penny instead. :) How about getting the signed card into the beer bottle of on the inside of the store front window.
I will stop grilling you after this. :) I am not into it enough to buy that tape, there are lots of things on my to buy list before I'd ever get that! :)
I know none of it is real magic but I hope you liked his stuff anyway. It was a unique delivery, don't you think?
Love,
Robyn

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Date: Fri, Feb 25, 2000 at 16:08:16 (GMT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Robyn
Subject: Suspending disbelief can be fun
Message:
How about getting the signed card into the beer bottle of on the inside of the store front window.

They didn't get into any of that, or I missed it if they did.

I know none of it is real magic but I hope you liked his stuff anyway.

Yeah, it was great! I actually enjoyed having my disbelief suspended watching Blaine perform his tricks more than watching this other creep revealing how he did it. Coming back down to earth, sometimes, does have it's disadvantages.

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Date: Thurs, Feb 24, 2000 at 00:35:44 (GMT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Hal
Subject: I'm a Sag, too!
Message:
And I'm never rong.
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Date: Wed, Feb 23, 2000 at 19:52:02 (GMT)
From: cqg
Email: None
To: Hal
Subject: having to admit...
Message:

You eventually admitted it! Hah!

Now 4x Scorpios like me ...

;)





seriously, though - how long did the process take?

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Date: Thurs, Feb 24, 2000 at 03:35:26 (GMT)
From: Sir David
Email: None
To: cqg
Subject: having to admit... an old paradox
Message:
We Scorpios are too sensible to believe all this astrology crap.
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Date: Thurs, Feb 24, 2000 at 18:37:18 (GMT)
From: cqg
Email: None
To: Sir David
Subject: having to admit... an old paradox
Message:
You don't have to believe in something to investigate it, Dave, you know that. A knowledge of the principles of astrology can be very useful if you're into, for instance, mythology (after all, in the old days, a scholar wasn't worth his cap and gown if he didn't know his astro - nomy AND -logy )

BTW, I remember you saying you had an interest in Akhenaton/Amenhotep IV? You might enjoy checking out this forum here (click on 'Ancient Egyptian Royalty' to find some discussion threads on the man himself.) Enjoy!

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Date: Thurs, Feb 24, 2000 at 19:39:32 (GMT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: cqg
Subject: having to admit... an old paradox
Message:
Hey that looks good. I've bookmarked the site. regarding astrology; I have a major problem with it because as you know, it was developed thousands of years ago when the constellations were in a different place in the sky to where they are now.

And yet current astrology is still based on where the constellations were long before Christ and not where they are now. Looks like a major error is happening there.

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Date: Fri, Feb 25, 2000 at 00:39:40 (GMT)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: having to admit... an old paradox
Message:
First of all the constellations look nothing like the animals and figures they are associated with. Secondly, astrology has nothing to do with the stars - the signs of the zodiac are 12 equal divisions of the ecliptic, which is the apparent path the sun and the planets make around the earth. So the shifting of the constellations has no effect on the theories of astrology.

Let's say there is something in this crap. Primitive people notice that people born at a certain time of year tend to be intense and argumentative. Everything they say seems to have a sting in the tail. After a while they associate these people with scorpions and imagine a scorpion amongst the random stars in the part of the sky where the sun was when they were born.

People then notice that people born when a particular part of the ecliptic is on the eastern horizon exhibit similar characteristics in their surface behaviour. For example, people born when the aquarius sign is on the eastern horizon tend to go against the grain in social groups - you know they always try to shock, say the opposite, be iconoclastic.

Anyway, this is all a load of bollocks isn't it Jim?:-)

John.

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Date: Fri, Feb 25, 2000 at 03:37:44 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Of course it's bullshit; just ask baby Jesus
Message:
Anyway, this is all a load of bollocks isn't it Jim?:-)

Astrology's worthless. On any level. Lots of double-blind studies have proven that astrologers are entirely useless in matching personality traits to so-called 'birth charts'. It's as bogus as it sounds.

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Date: Fri, Feb 25, 2000 at 12:25:51 (GMT)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Of course it's bullshit; just ask baby Jesus
Message:
Hey Jim, just baiting you:-)

John.

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Date: Thurs, Feb 24, 2000 at 20:15:43 (GMT)
From: cqg
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: having to admit... an old paradox
Message:
Maybe it's for those of us who have trouble with the here and now.

There and then ...

... you say:

'current astrology is still based on where the constellations were long before Christ and not where they are now. Looks like a major error is happening there.'

Not quite with you on that one, ol' chum.

Should we ask Jonathon Cainer to elucidate?

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Date: Thurs, Feb 24, 2000 at 02:59:58 (GMT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: cqg
Subject: having to admit...
Message:
And your birthday, dear, is...?
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Thurs, Feb 24, 2000 at 18:48:04 (GMT)
From: cqg
Email: None
To: Robyn
Subject: having to admit - I'm aging (less than gracefully)
Message:
Me, Robyn? 11.18.54 (or 18.11.54 as we say here in the old UK)

Must have your work cut out for you, being a birthday goddess an' all. I think you deserve a little story, all for yourself:


Micky the P, Jim and Deputy Dog go down to Mexico one night and get drunk and wake up in jail. They find out that they are to be executed for their crimes but none of them can remember what they have done.

Micky the P is strapped in the electric chair and is asked if he has any last words. He says, 'I'm a priest and I believe in the almighty power of God to intervene on behalf of the innocent.'
They throw the switch and nothing happens. They figure God must not want this guy to die, so they let him go.

Next Jim is strapped in and gives his last words. 'I am a lawyer and I believe in the eternal power of Justice to intervene on the part of the innocent.'
The switch is thrown and again nothing happens. They figure that the law is on this guy's side, so they let him go.

The last one strapped in is old Deputy Dog, and he says, 'Well I have the knowledge of all knowledges, and I'll tell you right now you'll never electrocute anybody if you don't connect those two wires.'

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Date: Thurs, Feb 24, 2000 at 19:42:52 (GMT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: cqg
Subject: having to admit - I'm aging (less than gracefully)
Message:
Dear Chris,
Very good story! Thanks, and thanks for your b-day! You are about a year and a half older then me.
The up side to my faltering goddess duties is I create an internet birthday for some, so far Anth and JM are the only lucky ones. :)
We all have 364...unbirthdays but only some of us have internet birthdays was well. :)
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Thurs, Feb 24, 2000 at 19:55:17 (GMT)
From: cqg
Email: None
To: Robyn
Subject: Un-birthdays?
Message:
We should count ourselves lucky Robyn, - only 364 un-birthdays a year. - My nephew was born on February 29th, so I guess this year's a good one for him.

Didn't quite understand what you said about Anth and JM and the 'internet birthday'. I'm sure I've seen you wishing many others their happy returns.

Anyway, glad you liked the story. Got any of your own?

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Date: Thurs, Feb 24, 2000 at 21:45:23 (GMT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: cqg
Subject: Un-birthdays?
Message:
Dear Chris,
Anth got his internet birthday because I had a thread for people to post their b-days so I could record them and then just never bother to look at them again! I could miss your b-day on the forum or I included my email in case someone didn't want their b-day on the forum but wanted me to know it anyway so I could miss it in private email. :)
Well, I was unaware that you Brits write the date differently so Anth's posting 6/10, to me meant June 10th and I posted a happy birthday thread to him on that day! He posted that his b-day was October 6th but that he took the day off and decided to celebrate his internet birthday!
Then after your Latvian Club festivities Anth tried to slip me a signal that I forgot someone's b-day and I thought it was JM for some reason but it wasn't so now he has an internet b-day also, Feb 13th same as Marianne's true birthday!

I have lots of stories, does it have to be about m, not many of those! :)
Here is one premie story I remember. My friend from highschool was in a gypsy stage that summer and carried stuff like a survivalist with her everywhere. She had 7 car accidents that summer and totalled 7 cars. Well she needed a ride to this motel for a sexual liason. She called when I was living in a premie house and I asked if anyone wanted to go for the ride and Victor volunteered. We had a blast, Weird Joan, my friend, was the refreshment hostess, making peanutbutter and cracker sandwiches and little paper cups of pineapple juice.
Or the guy who lived on the premie farm I was on and the housemother of who use to tell me about the details of his crap so I could adjust our diets accorndingly!
You meant something more with a moral though, eh?
Moral for story 1...If you are going to act like a nut, supply refreshments so others will let you indulge your ecentricities!
Moral 2...don't indulge others crap sagas without being paid for the priveliege(sp).
Love,
Robyn

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Date: Fri, Feb 25, 2000 at 15:31:29 (GMT)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Robyn
Subject: the CHristmas poop
Message:
Dear RObyn,
Now that's taking the diet thing way too far! Let's see, would that guy be called 'stuck in the anal stage'? That's the kind of things kids around 3 say when they are being potty trained and are so proud of themselves! 'Look mommy, this poop looks like a shamrock!'

Yuk now I am reminded of SOuth Park--the CHristmas poop. Okay back to work, this very mature discussion has to stop.

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Date: Fri, Feb 25, 2000 at 23:44:58 (GMT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: Helen
Subject: the CHristmas poo
Message:
Dear Helen,
I am just a laughing! When I saw your subject I immediately thought of Mr. Hanky! I think it is the Christmas Poo, a bit more delicate and artistic, eh? :)
Also, of course, I had no idea what you were talking about until I went back and read my post! :) Oh yeah, Sal. :)
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Wed, Feb 23, 2000 at 14:00:55 (GMT)
From: Hal
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: He's no longer a minor
Message:
Yes I agree Jerry it must be incredibly difficult to let go of the money but more than the money the adulation.

I see it as a very simple co-dependancy between premies and him. They are equally as addicted. De-programming M is going to be the toughest though.
Hal

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Date: Thurs, Feb 24, 2000 at 20:27:39 (GMT)
From: cqg
Email: None
To: Hal
Subject: He's no longer a minor
Message:
I've just had a interesting thought.

(not as rare as some might claim)

If you were in the Maha's shoes, what would make you quit?




(P.S. I'm still thinking of my answer)

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Date: Thurs, Feb 24, 2000 at 20:46:48 (GMT)
From: Hal
Email: None
To: cqg
Subject: What would make him quit?
Message:
How about a live t.v. debate with you, Jim and Anth?
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Date: Fri, Feb 25, 2000 at 19:11:42 (GMT)
From: cqg
Email: None
To: Hal
Subject: This is the nearest we've got to it! (nt)
Message:
This is the nearest we've got to it! (nt)
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Date: Wed, Feb 23, 2000 at 08:28:38 (GMT)
From: CBI
Email: None
To: Hal et al.
Subject: leaving town
Message:
One week ago today I said good-bye to my premie partner and went my own way.

Even though it was difficult the relief I have felt is enormous, no more bull dust. No more waiting around for him to finish practicing so we can get on with our day. No more interruptions from programs. My life is my own.

I guess what I realised in the end was that you cannot have an honest relationship with a premie as they do not have an honest relationship with themselves.

BB told me that some time ago but I wasn't ready to hear it or act upon it. Experience being the greatest teacher.

This site has been like an oasis in the desert for me, not knowing the first thing about the Guru. Three years ago I met a man who spent an awful lot of time at Ivory's Rock helping set up a conference. Little did I know at the time the extent this man's 'teacher' was to impact my life.

Hal, has the compassion of a saint and I also feel the same compassion for my ex-partner. I wish they could all be free.

I am planning not to visit this site all that much now, just the odd look in. I want to turn my back on all that stuff and am thankful that I am able.

Thanks for making me laugh and helping me to understand.

CBI

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Date: Wed, Feb 23, 2000 at 16:57:34 (GMT)
From: Happy
Email: None
To: CBI
Subject: leaving town, don't look back
Message:
Congratulations, CBI, I know exactly what is to live with a premie who does not want reason, who denies the obvious, year after year... until a whole family is destroyed (check my journey if you want to read about my experiences in this respect).
It is tough, but you did the right thing, I think. Anyway, my suggestion is, do not stop reading these pages. There may still be tough times ahead. Getting free is not so easy, the programming may be surprisingly deep.
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Date: Wed, Feb 23, 2000 at 17:15:11 (GMT)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Happy
Subject: leaving town, don't look back
Message:
Happy,

From memory, I believe that CBI wasn't a premie, only in a relationship with one. I don't think the programming will take long to drop away:-)

Anyway, CBI - Good luck and if you want to, find a guy who isn't in a cult!

John.

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Date: Wed, Feb 23, 2000 at 13:05:26 (GMT)
From: Hal
Email: None
To: CBI
Subject: leaving town
Message:
All the best to you in your new life.
Love Hal
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Date: Wed, Feb 23, 2000 at 13:51:52 (GMT)
From: Hal
Email: None
To: Maharaji
Subject: Read this M
Message:
An extract from Illusions.The Adventures of a reluctant Messiah by Richard Bach

And it came to pass when he saw that the multitude thronged him the more day on day,tighter and closer and fiercer than ever they had,
when he saw that they pressed him to heal them without rest, and feed them always with his miracles, to learn for them and to live their lives,
he went alone that day onto a hilltop apart,and their he prayed.

And he said in his heart, Infinite radiant Is, if it be thy will, let this cup pass from me, let me lay aside this impossible task.
I cannot live the life of one other soul, yet ten thousand cry to me for life.
I'm sorry I allowed it all to happen. If it be thy will, let me go back to my engines and my tools and let me live as other men.

And a voice spoke to him on the hilltop, a voice neither male nor female,loud nor soft, a voice infinitely kind.
And the voice said unto him, ' Not my will but thine be done
For what is thy will is mine for thee.
Go thy way as other men,and be thou happy on the earth.'

And hearing, the master was glad and gave thanks and came down from the hilltop humming a little mechanic's song.

And when the throng pressed him with its woes,beseeching him to heal for it and learn for it and feed it non stop from his understanding and to entertain it with his wonders,
he smiled at the multitude and said pleasantly unto them,

' I QUIT:'And he went his way through the crowds and left them, and he returned to the everyday world of men and machines.

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Date: Wed, Feb 23, 2000 at 15:15:21 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Hal
Subject: He doesn't care, he's into peeing
Message:
Participation, Progress and Practice .....

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Date: Tues, Feb 22, 2000 at 21:24:37 (GMT)
From: cqg
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Eyes only
Message:




from 'Private Eye' No

from 'Private Eye' No. 995, 11th February 2000:



'CHARITY SHOPPED'



The Charities Commission's stated aim is to 'give the public confidence in the integrity of charities in England and Wales'. But if the speed at which it investigated the integrity of the now defunct Bosnian relief fund Crisis Support is anything to go by, the public shouldn't expect too much.

Crisis Support was set up in March 1993 by Michael Roberts, whom Eye readers may recall that the Mail on Sunday's impeccable source for its scoop on former Animal Liberation Front member David Hammond (Eye 994). In July 1993, the commission opened an inquiry into allegations by volunteers working for Roberts that money had been misappropriated.

A joint investigation by the commission and Sussex police revealed that trustees and persons named on Crisis Support's letterheads were either fictitious or aliases of Roberts himself, his wife and his illustrious sidekick Joe Taylor - who, by a strange coincidence, was the second source for the recent Mail on Sunday scoop. To those who knew Roberts, this came as no surprise. According to Sussex police, he has used no fewer than 60 permutations of names and dates of birth during his life.

The Charities Commission discovered that funds earmarked for saving Bosnian babies had been diverted to saving baby moo-cows in Shoreham-by-Sea, contrary to the charity's stated objectives. The money had in fact been used to fund Roberts's Campaign Against Live Freight.

The commission also traced a building society account in the name of Crisis Support with deposits of £10,000 which had never been declared, and a charity shop operating under Crisis Support's name in Essex - though the shop had never been disclosed in the accounts, nor had it made any payments to the charity.

It then transpired that Roberts was inventing reports of aid convoys going to Bosnia. One report, dated April 1995, described movingly how much-needed aid was delivered to the 'towns, villages and camps in and around Srebrenica', with the drivers finding 'scenes of deprivation that would haunt them for the rest of their lives'. The Charities Commission established that no such convoys had been to Bosnia 'since at least 1st January 1994.' Crisis Support had also been given huge quantities of controlled drugs, supposedly for its aid convoys to Bosnia, which were later found stockpiled under a tarpaulin at Robert's home in Peacehaven, near Brighton.

Despite all this and more, the commission seemed in no great hurry to act. In October 1995, more than two years after the original complaint, it asked Roberts and the largely fictitious trustees to attend a meeting at its Taunton bunker. Needless to say, none of them turned up. In November 1995 it reached the blindingly obvious conclusion that there was sufficient evidence of mismanagement, maladministration and misapplication of charity funds to enable to serve orders removing the trustees (sic) from office. And yet, due to an 'administrative oversight', Crisis Support wasn't removed from the public register of charities until November 1999 - a mere six years after the first allegation of fraud.

A cursory check on Roberts's background would have revealed that he is a career criminal with convictions ranging from such uncharitable activities as theft, assault, receiving stolen goods, burglary and obtaining money by deception. Such a record should normally debar a person from running a charity.

And yet, despite being clearly implicated in the Crisis Support fraud, Roberts was never charged. Is it any wonder the criminal fraternity now recommend setting up a charity as one of the best and safest methods of making a fast buck?



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Date: Tues, Feb 22, 2000 at 21:33:00 (GMT)
From: Hal
Email: None
To: cqg
Subject: Eyes only
Message:
Very interesting cqg,

About an hour ago a very dear premie friend came round to see me and offered the wonderful opportunity to buy a smart card for 20 dollars. I asked him if this was for the satellite events and he said no. Apparently this is the new card for all premies to enter any kind of program. This is all getting very weird. I'm so glad I'm on the outside,away from crap like that.

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Date: Wed, Feb 23, 2000 at 04:42:46 (GMT)
From: Jack
Email: None
To: Hal
Subject: Anyone else seen Beach - the movie?
Message:
Dear Hal,

Thankyou so much for the lovely description of Portugal. Glad to hear you are happier there than the U.K. I must agree with you people often look grey there and the weather is grey. Interesting connection. I always associated greyness in people with unhappiness and not with the weather.

I would love to live somewhere like Portugal. We are looking into living in Mexico.

I would love to have your email as I would like to tell you a bit more about myself without disclosing it on the forum.

I'm replying here because for some reason my reply wasn't being accepted down below. I agree with you Anon's post down there somewhere about life at the ashram was very astutely written.

Love,

Jackie

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Date: Tues, Feb 22, 2000 at 23:47:14 (GMT)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Hal
Subject: Eyes only
Message:
Hal,

This is totally amazing! Can you find out if this is just local, national or international? How much do communities have to pay for the card readers at events? Does EV have a special deal with the manufacturers to get the readers for a special price?

They need some sort of system here in the UK. I've been myself on this site and with my journey, I've cancelled my payments to EV, I've written several very critical emails to Maharaji, I've had a fake journey on the ELK site, I've explained that journey here, I then waited two weeks before telling ELK the true meaning of my journey (it took them a week to remove it), I've used my real name throughout, and EV still has me on their mailing list!

John.

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Date: Tues, Feb 22, 2000 at 23:52:21 (GMT)
From: Hal
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Eyes only
Message:
I'll keep you posted on this . I'm on the mailing list so something should come through soon.
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Date: Tues, Feb 22, 2000 at 21:39:43 (GMT)
From: Jack
Email: None
To: Hal
Subject: Twenty Dollars only?
Message:
Dear Hal,

I can't believe that smart-card is only twenty dollars or was that pounds ? There must be another charge for each programme after the initial cost which is probably just for the plastic.

Love,

Jack

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Date: Tues, Feb 29, 2000 at 07:40:51 (GMT)
From: Hal
Email: None
To: Jack
Subject: now it's 30 dollars! n.t.
Message:
nt
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Date: Tues, Feb 22, 2000 at 21:59:20 (GMT)
From: Hal
Email: None
To: Jack
Subject: Twenty Dollars only?
Message:
Yes Jack you are correct. This is just a registration fee for being a premie and is not a payment for satellite events or any other type of program.

I did not get a chance to discuss it in depth because my dear friend left very quickly when I exploded in sarcastic laughter. I think when I mentioned something about the expensive yacht to him he suddenly had to leave urgently (he hadn't heard that one).What a strange thing when you have to tell premies what is going on with their own guru eh?

love Hal

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Date: Tues, Feb 22, 2000 at 13:17:34 (GMT)
From: Sniggs
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Raja Ji Alert
Message:
At a loose end during February and March?

Why not polish up on the 'three pees' with instructor Raja Ji.

He'll be all over the country from London to Leeds for only 5 quid. A bargain, I'm sure you'll agree.

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Date: Wed, Feb 23, 2000 at 09:03:01 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Sniggs
Subject: Included in Elan Vital Today ....
Message:
Don't forget to visit

Elan Vital Today

The Mother of EV's Officials Nightmares ! ... and Have an Idea of what Premies are Involved in Nowadays.

More stuff coming, soon !!!!

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Date: Wed, Feb 23, 2000 at 11:13:05 (GMT)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Check this out!
Message:
Most of J-M's stuff has appeared here but I don't remember this from his site:-

'Guidelines for responding at the Local Level to individuals who Display Psycho-Emotional Distress & Inappropriate Behaviors.'

It's pretty routine, if verbose, but I particularly like the idea that people with the Knowledge of all Knowledges are advised in the Resources section to consider use Churches amongst other organisations.

John.

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Date: Fri, Feb 25, 2000 at 03:33:01 (GMT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Send Jesus the goats
Message:
and keep the sheep for Maharaji. I know, I wondered at that idea to send trouble makers to Christ.

Now we are talking here about the Lord and protector of the weary and the weak, the one who people can turn to and pray to etc; we're talking about him telling his followers to send the very weary and weak, to Christ because the Lord can't deal with them.

God in human form doesn't have the recourses to deal with the wierd people and he can only accept normal people into the kingdom of heaven.

Hey, I can't believe we used to swallow this crap!

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Date: Wed, Feb 23, 2000 at 14:27:39 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Check this out! and also.....
Message:
I don't want to elaborate on this for the moment, but EV's sending these guys to some 'premie doctor' I wouldn't recommend to anybody.

Check Marolyn's letter which was about one serious problem with one of them, that's been reported to authorities in California.

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Date: Tues, Feb 22, 2000 at 13:55:48 (GMT)
From: CultbusterUK
Email: None
To: Sniggs
Subject: Raja Ji Alert
Message:
OK - Plan X will now go into effect. You all know your part:-

Bomber - Get the leaflets ready
Sapper - Organise the security to protect our leaflet distributors from their security.
Flapper - Practise those awkward questions to Raja Ji from inside the hall (like how's his other brother doing)
Shopper - Get the press releases out, although it will be hard to convince the press to come just for his brother unless we can come up with some other angle.
CultbusterUK - And for me, put posts on the web that will scare the shit out of Elan Vital

CBUK

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Date: Tues, Feb 22, 2000 at 22:23:46 (GMT)
From: Charlie
Email: None
To: CultbusterUK
Subject: Raja Ji Alert
Message:
Could it be that M is worried about the reception he is likely to recieve when he turns up in the UK next?

Could it be that he is sending his brother over the wire in front of him to see if he picks up any flack?

M will make his next move depending upon how battered Raja Ji looks when he returns to HQ. If he's clean as a whistle M will think the coast is clear.

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Date: Tues, Feb 22, 2000 at 14:08:19 (GMT)
From: cb US
Email: None
To: CultbusterUK
Subject: Raja Ji spacey
Message:
Have local christian zealots hand out the leaflets.
They will do it if they are educated about this.
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Date: Tues, Feb 22, 2000 at 17:27:59 (GMT)
From: Beragon Splinter Group
Email: None
To: cb US
Subject: Leafleting
Message:
Our leaflets will be given out by local unemployed people, who we've hired, at £4.50 per hour, for the evening.

If challenged, they are instructed to say, 'Sorry mate. I'm only doing my job. The unemployment office sent me.'

However, your idea of using christians is much cheaper, and has a certain ironic style. Thanks for the suggestion.

The Beragon Splinter Group.

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Date: Tues, Feb 22, 2000 at 19:41:06 (GMT)
From: Anarchist
Email: foaming@themouth.com
To: Beragon Splinter Group
Subject: Leafleting - Mission Possible
Message:
That was my idea, to use Christians to help with the effort. It might be useful to seek out any Christian newspapers or magazines (not Watchtower - they're too wierd) and let them know the Anti-Christ's brother is in town.

I think a strong Christian presence could be helpful, especially when they all step forwards in unison with their Bibles and say, 'Have you seen this book?'

Premies will be dropping like flies.

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Date: Tues, Feb 22, 2000 at 14:51:48 (GMT)
From: CultbusterUK
Email: None
To: cb US
Subject: Raja Ji spacey
Message:
I'm not sure we have the same class of Christian Zealots as you have. Interesting idea though:-)

CBUK

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Date: Wed, Feb 23, 2000 at 04:29:57 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: CultbusterUK
Subject: Raja Ji visit
Message:
Maybe leaflets with old quotes of Raja Ji could be handed out, there are plenty at this site.
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Date: Tues, Feb 22, 2000 at 18:16:13 (GMT)
From: Angry
Email: None
To: CultbusterUK
Subject: Raja Ji -Guilty as Co-Conspirator!
Message:
Surely, this man has the knowledge to bust this cult wide open!
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Date: Tues, Feb 22, 2000 at 21:24:51 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Angry
Subject: May I remind you
Message:
Fact is, Raja Ji admitted to me back in the late eighties that:

1) Even he can't approach m and ask him anything difficult. M won't answer his questions either, he told me. In other words, m specifically refused to answer Raja Ji when he tried to ask him about who the fuck he was, what he thought his 'mission' on earth was, all that stuff. He stonewalled him.

2) What else do you need? Isn't that enough. Oh yeah, Raja Ji bitched to me -- a total stranger who'd just heckled him a bit at the fundraiser the night before and later introduced myself as a lawyer, obviously picquing his interest a bit (i.e. did I have $$$$$$ perhaps?) -- about how m didn't give him enough money. Raja Ji was living in New York then, separated from Claudia, working as a part-time instructor, doing a 'little business' on the side and, like I say, bitching about how little money m gave him. I might add, he drove off in a very expensive Mercedes. I mean one of the way-too-much kind.

So does Raja Ji have enough dope on m to sink him? Of course but he obviously doesn't want to do that. He just wants more money.

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Date: Tues, Feb 22, 2000 at 22:16:31 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Raja Ji
Message:
Interesting.
When Raja Ji put on a demo of m's web site where I live, it seemed like he felt frustrated. He was relating how he suggested to m that he have a web site, something like 'We need a web presense'. He had an insistant tone in his voice. It was what he didn't say that was significant. In retrospect, it seemed like he was saying 'You idiot little brother of mine, can't you see that you should have a web site. I mean, your 'enemies' have one, you need to have one to counteract them.' It also seemed like he had to bug m several times about it. M on his web site, makes it out like it was his idea, like it just occurred to him 'Why not, it could be useful'. BTW, Raja Ji didn't show the credits page, maybe it was too embarassing. He seemed ill at ease about the whole thing. He really seemed like he does NOT worship his brother. I agree, he's in it for the money. M is basically his boss.
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Date: Tues, Feb 22, 2000 at 22:11:34 (GMT)
From: Hal
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Raja Ji is a parasite
Message:
Dear Jim,

This R.J character is a real creep. I can't believe that he walks around using that name which means king or ruler in Hindi. It always irked me that he was given such status and loadsa money from premies pockets. From what I've heard from premie friends who know him, all he talks about is material desires he has. He loves stereo systems worth thousands ,clothes cars, everything.

He is also the least inspiring speaker you could ever fall asleep to. Hal

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Date: Tues, Feb 22, 2000 at 22:27:31 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: Hal
Subject: Raja Ji is a parasite
Message:
Yes, when he was visiting where I live to demo m's web site, I heard him talk about his expensive stereo system. He's into old style stereo stuff and wants the very best. He likes $$$ vinyl record players, etc. He seemed to like the stuff partially because it costs so much money. What a turn off. And yes, he is uninspiring, he does not seem happy or peaceful.
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Date: Tues, Feb 22, 2000 at 22:19:23 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Hal
Subject: Didn't they coin the term 'Eurotrash' for him?
Message:
A certain potent mixture of third-world top-dog's sense of privilege, mixed with a disdain for the masses and obsession with material pleasures. Superficial, lazy.
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Date: Tues, Feb 22, 2000 at 21:26:37 (GMT)
From: cqg
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: He justs wants more money? Interesting ... (nt)
Message:
He justs wants more money? Interesting ... (nt)
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Date: Tues, Feb 22, 2000 at 20:59:34 (GMT)
From: cqg
Email: None
To: Angry
Subject: Now that WOULD be some house divided! (nt)
Message:
Now that WOULD be some house divided! (nt)
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Date: Tues, Feb 22, 2000 at 11:20:24 (GMT)
From: Hal
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: A short story
Message:
Once upon a time there was a simple man who farmed his own land.

He lived without electricityand yet had heard many friends in the village discussing the wonders of living with electric power.
He heard one day of a visiting electrician who was offering to connect people up for free. An offer he couldn't refuse!

The electrician came to his house and connected him up to the power grid.The farmer was very impressed with the wonder of his electric lights. ' Are you sure this is for free?' He asked the electrician. ' Of course my friend, all I ask is that you tithe 10% of your produce to me each month. You see you must realise that the electrician is so much more important than the electricity, after all how would you ever have been connected without me? Also I advise you never to trust any other elecrician but me as they surely wouldn't be dealing in the same currency. Just one other suggestion, keep in touch with me and I'll maintain your fuse box.' 'Is that it?' asked the farmer.
Well now that you mention it there is one other thing'.
'Whats that' asks the farmer,becoming wary.

'I suggest you make additional donations to keep me and my extended family in luxury for the rest of my life. Then I can travel around connecting others to this wondrous and unique power.'

' FUCK OFF !!!' said the farmer 'I'll stick with my oil lamps thanks!'

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Date: Tues, Feb 22, 2000 at 16:19:51 (GMT)
From: djuro
Email: None
To: Hal
Subject: A short story
Message:
And you? Also stick with your oil lamp? Don't like electricity?
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Date: Tues, Feb 22, 2000 at 23:41:55 (GMT)
From: Hal
Email: None
To: djuro
Subject: more expansion please
Message:
Djuro,

I take it you're a premie trying to make wise little comments. However I wish you would expand a little so that we can discuss something.
You understand the gist of the story. I don't live without electricity just the con artist who tries to extort such a high price for an energy that's freely available to anyone..

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Date: Tues, Feb 22, 2000 at 21:16:30 (GMT)
From: Hal
Email: None
To: djuro
Subject: It's metaphorical dummy! n.t.
Message:
n.t.
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Date: Tues, Feb 22, 2000 at 17:13:53 (GMT)
From: dgeri
Email: None
To: djuro
Subject: Revised ending for 'Story.' good story, btw.
Message:
'Fuck Off' said the farmer. I'll invest in solar and get a windmill and make my own electricity. Why I could even tap some of the methane that comes offa you guru fellers!
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Date: Sun, Feb 27, 2000 at 21:13:28 (GMT)
From: Sean
Email: seang2@earthlink.net
To: dgeri
Subject: Revised ending for 'Story.' good story, btw.
Message:
Of course, if you were short on ethics and long on hunger for some of them purty doodads, you could subcontract the installations.
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Date: Tues, Feb 22, 2000 at 22:32:13 (GMT)
From: Hal
Email: None
To: dgeri
Subject: Good revised ending.I laughed nt
Message:
l
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