Hal -:- the late great devotees -:- Wed, Mar 01, 2000 at 11:42:08 (GMT)

__ Djuro -:- the late great devotees -:- Wed, Mar 01, 2000 at 16:05:56 (GMT)

__ __ Hal -:- the late great devotees -:- Wed, Mar 01, 2000 at 16:07:36 (GMT)

__ __ __ Djuro -:- the late great devotees -:- Wed, Mar 01, 2000 at 16:47:52 (GMT)

Jean-Michel -:- Undertaking a 'severe and sincere cleanup' ... -:- Wed, Mar 01, 2000 at 11:15:19 (GMT)

__ bb -:- 'Blyssville' ! -:- Thurs, Mar 02, 2000 at 05:20:39 (GMT)

__ Leaky -:- Undertaking a 'severe and sincere cleanup' ... -:- Thurs, Mar 02, 2000 at 03:54:51 (GMT)

__ Jean-Michel -:- and another Agya of Rawat's -:- Wed, Mar 01, 2000 at 16:01:08 (GMT)

__ __ Jean-Michel -:- and more details from UK mole! -:- Wed, Mar 01, 2000 at 18:37:34 (GMT)

__ __ __ Jim -:- DON'T DO IT LORD!!! -:- Thurs, Mar 02, 2000 at 00:38:35 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Lord Queensbury -:- Who's turf do you answer YOUR critics on, Jim?(nt) -:- Thurs, Mar 02, 2000 at 20:32:23 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Stupid, stupid, STUPID premie -:- Thurs, Mar 02, 2000 at 20:45:17 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ idiot ex-premie -:- Drawbridge is up = Maha in state of siege -dig(nt) -:- Fri, Mar 03, 2000 at 19:50:47 (GMT)

__ __ __ Joey -:- and more details from UK mole! -:- Wed, Mar 01, 2000 at 18:55:04 (GMT)

__ __ Susan -:- they need to hire us as consultants...... -:- Wed, Mar 01, 2000 at 16:34:21 (GMT)

__ __ __ Joey -:- they need to hire us as consultants...... -:- Wed, Mar 01, 2000 at 17:00:39 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Way -:- they need to hire us as consultants...... -:- Wed, Mar 01, 2000 at 18:20:13 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Susan -:- if I were Rawat I would hire you Way! (nt) -:- Wed, Mar 01, 2000 at 20:24:20 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Way -:- I'll apply if you do! (nt) -:- Wed, Mar 01, 2000 at 20:29:30 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Susan -:- My fellow consultant Way.... -:- Wed, Mar 01, 2000 at 22:05:52 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Way -:- Back to Susan: -:- Wed, Mar 01, 2000 at 22:46:16 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Prem Rawat -:- Are you guys pulling my leg? -:- Wed, Mar 01, 2000 at 18:45:55 (GMT)

__ __ __ Jean-Michel -:- GREAT IDEA: I officially apply Mr Rawat! -:- Wed, Mar 01, 2000 at 16:45:36 (GMT)

__ __ Hal -:- Good work and good news Jean-Michel nt -:- Wed, Mar 01, 2000 at 16:06:07 (GMT)

__ Marianne -:- IRS audit worries -:- Wed, Mar 01, 2000 at 11:52:16 (GMT)

__ __ Jean-Michel -:- Hey Marianne ? -:- Wed, Mar 01, 2000 at 14:20:55 (GMT)

__ __ __ Marianne -:- Severe and sincere clean up -- read dysfunction! -:- Wed, Mar 01, 2000 at 19:14:52 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Jean-Michel -:- Great analysis Marianne -:- Wed, Mar 01, 2000 at 20:59:47 (GMT)

Hal -:- the nerdiest thing -:- Wed, Mar 01, 2000 at 10:28:14 (GMT)

__ Way -:- St. John the Baptist -:- Wed, Mar 01, 2000 at 15:34:29 (GMT)

__ __ DOD -:- St. John the Baptist -:- Wed, Mar 01, 2000 at 21:21:01 (GMT)

__ Susan -:- Family of Love (nt) -:- Wed, Mar 01, 2000 at 15:34:01 (GMT)

Loafji -:- Car Boot sale -:- Wed, Mar 01, 2000 at 09:22:03 (GMT)

__ ole shoe -:- Car Boot sale -:- Thurs, Mar 02, 2000 at 05:25:00 (GMT)

__ Reluctant to say -:- Car Boot sale -:- Wed, Mar 01, 2000 at 11:28:05 (GMT)

__ __ Jack -:- That's to funny you guys! (nt) -:- Wed, Mar 01, 2000 at 15:05:24 (GMT)

__ __ __ Hal -:- Hey Jackie! -:- Wed, Mar 01, 2000 at 15:25:48 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Jackie -:- Hey Hal -:- Thurs, Mar 02, 2000 at 04:35:19 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Joey -:- Attention: JACKIE -:- Fri, Mar 03, 2000 at 17:56:21 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Jackie -:- Attention: JACKIE -:- Sat, Mar 04, 2000 at 03:09:16 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jethro -:- Attention: JACKIE -:- Sat, Mar 04, 2000 at 12:30:26 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Attention: JACKIE -:- Sat, Mar 04, 2000 at 04:47:33 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- Stickin' the Pig LOL (nt) -:- Sun, Mar 05, 2000 at 17:14:13 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Recent Exes is BULLSHIT! -:- Thurs, Mar 02, 2000 at 19:33:16 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Jackie -:- Hey Hal -:- Thurs, Mar 02, 2000 at 17:33:19 (GMT)

Sir Dave -:- Just a reminder -:- Wed, Mar 01, 2000 at 05:48:23 (GMT)

__ Sir Dave again -:- And meet my new guru -:- Wed, Mar 01, 2000 at 14:31:46 (GMT)

SB -:- MAHARAJI'S QUOTE: Knowledge is a LSD trip -:- Tues, Feb 29, 2000 at 15:45:30 (GMT)

__ Hal -:- MAHARAJI'S QUOTE: Knowledge is a LSD trip -:- Tues, Feb 29, 2000 at 16:03:14 (GMT)

__ __ Charlie -:- MAHARAJI'S QUOTE: Knowledge is a LSD trip -:- Tues, Feb 29, 2000 at 20:18:35 (GMT)

__ __ Miss Prim -:- Short Hair and Suits -:- Tues, Feb 29, 2000 at 16:08:04 (GMT)

__ Marianne -:- Source and date? -:- Tues, Feb 29, 2000 at 15:54:06 (GMT)

__ __ SB -:- Source and date? -:- Tues, Feb 29, 2000 at 17:36:51 (GMT)

__ __ __ Djuro -:- Source and date? -:- Wed, Mar 01, 2000 at 17:21:50 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Scott T. -:- Source and date? -:- Wed, Mar 01, 2000 at 23:16:31 (GMT)

__ __ __ Powerman -:- Source and date? -:- Tues, Feb 29, 2000 at 20:59:19 (GMT)

AJW -:- Catching Cod. -:- Tues, Feb 29, 2000 at 11:54:33 (GMT)

__ Susan -:- Bravo Anth and hey Rog.....don't let this one slip -:- Wed, Mar 01, 2000 at 16:04:54 (GMT)

__ JW -:- Some Additions -:- Tues, Feb 29, 2000 at 20:35:21 (GMT)

__ Charlie -:- Catching Cod. -:- Tues, Feb 29, 2000 at 20:05:15 (GMT)

__ __ AJW -:- Only with 'Daddies Sauce' (nt) -:- Wed, Mar 01, 2000 at 10:44:58 (GMT)

__ Captain BirdsEye -:- Catching Cold. -:- Tues, Feb 29, 2000 at 19:52:40 (GMT)

__ Remy -:- Catching Cod. -:- Tues, Feb 29, 2000 at 17:54:27 (GMT)

__ __ M's Manicurist -:- Premies acting appropriately -:- Fri, Mar 03, 2000 at 21:57:10 (GMT)

__ __ Jim -:- GET THEE AWAY, SATAN!! -:- Wed, Mar 01, 2000 at 03:46:01 (GMT)

__ __ __ Susan -:- Jim, I think you are off base here too... -:- Wed, Mar 01, 2000 at 16:00:03 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Jerry -:- Struggling with boredom -:- Wed, Mar 01, 2000 at 16:32:42 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Jim -:- Hardly, Susan -:- Wed, Mar 01, 2000 at 16:15:21 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Susan -:- Hardly, Susan -:- Wed, Mar 01, 2000 at 16:18:04 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Marianne -:- No sneaking into videos, Susan! -:- Wed, Mar 01, 2000 at 19:22:27 (GMT)

__ __ __ gerry -:- You're being a dickhead, Jim -:- Wed, Mar 01, 2000 at 04:03:53 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Jim -:- Are you really that stupid, Gerry? -:- Wed, Mar 01, 2000 at 04:20:02 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- And you're an all day sucker... -:- Wed, Mar 01, 2000 at 15:52:38 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- And you're an all day sucker... -:- Wed, Mar 01, 2000 at 16:21:00 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- And you're an all day sucker... -:- Wed, Mar 01, 2000 at 16:43:51 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Happy Clone? -:- Thurs, Mar 02, 2000 at 00:23:21 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- Ok, I'll let you off the hook.. -:- Thurs, Mar 02, 2000 at 01:10:54 (GMT)

__ __ JW -:- Huh? -:- Tues, Feb 29, 2000 at 20:48:55 (GMT)

__ __ AJW -:- Catching Cod. -:- Tues, Feb 29, 2000 at 18:18:31 (GMT)

__ __ __ Jerry -:- Catching Cod. -:- Wed, Mar 01, 2000 at 16:12:47 (GMT)

__ __ __ JB -:- Catching Cod. -:- Tues, Feb 29, 2000 at 18:30:07 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Remy -:- Catching Cod. -:- Thurs, Mar 02, 2000 at 00:06:50 (GMT)

__ Leaky -:- Another Gem from Anthony -:- Tues, Feb 29, 2000 at 16:41:35 (GMT)

__ __ AJW -:- The future revealed. -:- Tues, Feb 29, 2000 at 18:23:36 (GMT)

__ Marianne -:- Most special cod of all -:- Tues, Feb 29, 2000 at 14:39:28 (GMT)

__ __ AJW -:- EST and Maharaji -:- Tues, Feb 29, 2000 at 18:28:06 (GMT)

__ Hal -:- Excellent and accurate Anth! -:- Tues, Feb 29, 2000 at 14:39:17 (GMT)

__ __ gregg -:- Cheers, Anth and Marianne -:- Tues, Feb 29, 2000 at 16:22:46 (GMT)

__ __ __ Marianne -:- Hi Gregg and Paula - OT -:- Tues, Feb 29, 2000 at 16:30:14 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Way -:- With aspirants like Remy, -:- Tues, Feb 29, 2000 at 18:54:31 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Gregg -:- Springtime in the Rockies - OT -:- Tues, Feb 29, 2000 at 18:53:23 (GMT)

M's Manicurist -:- Message in the Bottle -:- Tues, Feb 29, 2000 at 06:51:42 (GMT)

__ M's Manicurist -:- What it is here that you don't believe? -:- Fri, Mar 03, 2000 at 21:51:23 (GMT)

__ bb -:- 'utmost serousness' -:- Thurs, Mar 02, 2000 at 05:32:02 (GMT)

__ JHB -:- Message in the Bottle -:- Tues, Feb 29, 2000 at 16:11:32 (GMT)

__ Jean-Michel -:- This Rawat's an interesting 'teacher' indeed! -:- Tues, Feb 29, 2000 at 15:44:23 (GMT)

__ __ Leaky Boat -:- This Rawat's an interesting 'teacher' indeed! -:- Tues, Feb 29, 2000 at 16:00:05 (GMT)

__ __ __ Jean-Michel -:- I don't appreciate these poor guys being caught -:- Tues, Feb 29, 2000 at 16:15:31 (GMT)

__ Sir Dave -:- Message in the Bottle -:- Tues, Feb 29, 2000 at 09:07:09 (GMT)

__ __ Annie -:- Message in the Bottle -:- Tues, Feb 29, 2000 at 20:33:39 (GMT)

__ __ __ Jerry -:- A challenge to Annie -:- Thurs, Mar 02, 2000 at 01:30:41 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Annie -:- An Answer for Jerry -:- Thurs, Mar 02, 2000 at 09:46:52 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Annie -:- What part would not apply to Moon -:- Thurs, Mar 02, 2000 at 21:02:17 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Susan -:- What part would not apply to Moon -:- Fri, Mar 03, 2000 at 01:17:06 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Susan -:- What part of that would not apply to Rev. Moon -:- Thurs, Mar 02, 2000 at 18:50:07 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Susan -:- Houser of cult leaders? So he's gotta be real? nt -:- Thurs, Mar 02, 2000 at 19:04:04 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Doogie Houser -:- of cult leaders? So he's gotta be real? nt -:- Thurs, Mar 02, 2000 at 19:05:14 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- So what, Annie? -:- Thurs, Mar 02, 2000 at 17:07:40 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Jerry -:- A response for Annie -:- Thurs, Mar 02, 2000 at 12:56:25 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Annie -:- A response for Annie -:- Fri, Mar 03, 2000 at 07:33:04 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ M's Manicurist -:- A response for Annie -:- Fri, Mar 03, 2000 at 21:40:27 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- You're lying on that one, Annie -:- Fri, Mar 03, 2000 at 16:57:26 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Annie -:- Once again, wrong Annie -:- Fri, Mar 03, 2000 at 19:57:44 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Oh, a lesson! I just got a lesson! -:- Fri, Mar 03, 2000 at 21:51:01 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Susan -:- Annie.... -:- Fri, Mar 03, 2000 at 20:20:25 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jerry -:- Boogy, boogy, boogy... Cult, cult, cult -:- Fri, Mar 03, 2000 at 14:47:22 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ An Occassional Observer -:- Annie, you must be kidding -:- Fri, Mar 03, 2000 at 08:45:33 (GMT)

__ __ __ DOD -:- Message in the Bottle -:- Wed, Mar 01, 2000 at 21:03:22 (GMT)

__ __ __ Susan -:- Pot calling the kettle black! -:- Wed, Mar 01, 2000 at 15:32:26 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Hal -:- Right on Susan-tell it like it is!n.t. -:- Wed, Mar 01, 2000 at 16:11:56 (GMT)

__ __ __ Sir Dave -:- Message in the Bottle -:- Wed, Mar 01, 2000 at 14:18:06 (GMT)

__ __ __ AJW -:- Question for Annie. -:- Wed, Mar 01, 2000 at 11:02:26 (GMT)

__ __ __ M's Manicurist -:- Message in the Bottle -:- Wed, Mar 01, 2000 at 04:49:39 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ bb -:- Lord in the Bottle -:- Thurs, Mar 02, 2000 at 05:39:06 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Jean-Michel -:- Al Capone's input: 'severe and sincere cleanup' !! -:- Wed, Mar 01, 2000 at 14:12:59 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Joey -:- Al Capone's input: 'severe and sincere cleanup' !! -:- Wed, Mar 01, 2000 at 17:33:27 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Jethro -:- Here is the sincerity test -:- Thurs, Mar 02, 2000 at 06:48:36 (GMT)

__ __ __ Jim -:- You have no moral authority here, Annie -:- Wed, Mar 01, 2000 at 03:39:15 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Susan -:- well said Jim! (nt) -:- Wed, Mar 01, 2000 at 15:39:51 (GMT)

__ __ Jim -:- Excuse me, did I miss something? -:- Tues, Feb 29, 2000 at 17:05:05 (GMT)

__ __ __ Sir Dave -:- Excuse me, did I miss something? -:- Tues, Feb 29, 2000 at 18:49:25 (GMT)

__ joan apter -:- Message in the Bottle -:- Tues, Feb 29, 2000 at 07:41:46 (GMT)

__ Jim -:- Where's THAT come from? -:- Tues, Feb 29, 2000 at 07:26:04 (GMT)

__ __ Sir Dave -:- Oh no! This is terrifying!!! -:- Wed, Mar 01, 2000 at 05:22:54 (GMT)

__ __ __ Jethro -:- Oh no! This is terrifying!!! -:- Thurs, Mar 02, 2000 at 06:40:36 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Sir Dave -:- Oh no! This is terrifying!!! -:- Thurs, Mar 02, 2000 at 11:15:30 (GMT)

bb -:- street update 2 (ot) -:- Tues, Feb 29, 2000 at 06:41:49 (GMT)

__ Jim -:- Bill, weren't you one of the y2k guys? -:- Tues, Feb 29, 2000 at 07:24:51 (GMT)

__ __ gerry -:- read this; what do you think? -:- Tues, Feb 29, 2000 at 16:14:42 (GMT)

__ __ __ Michael -:- read this; what do you think? -:- Wed, Mar 01, 2000 at 15:24:27 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ gerry -:- read this; what do you think? -:- Wed, Mar 01, 2000 at 16:31:58 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Michael -:- read this; what do you think? -:- Wed, Mar 01, 2000 at 23:19:02 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- read this; what do you think? -:- Thurs, Mar 02, 2000 at 02:55:57 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ cq -:- read this; what do you think? -:- Thurs, Mar 02, 2000 at 21:09:21 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ cq(g) -:- read this; what do you think? -:- Thurs, Mar 02, 2000 at 21:24:25 (GMT)

__ __ __ bb -:- read this; what do you think? -:- Tues, Feb 29, 2000 at 18:28:03 (GMT)

__ __ beeb -:- Need food? just go to the wine cellar! -:- Tues, Feb 29, 2000 at 07:35:12 (GMT)

__ __ __ bee bee -:- or the store -:- Tues, Feb 29, 2000 at 07:50:13 (GMT)

__ er guhi,rfwcn -:- wearing the crown on pot -:- Tues, Feb 29, 2000 at 07:23:26 (GMT)

Get the tomatoes ready! -:- he hopes for US knowledge review sessions -:- Tues, Feb 29, 2000 at 05:38:25 (GMT)

__ Djuro -:- he hopes for US knowledge review sessions -:- Wed, Mar 01, 2000 at 16:57:55 (GMT)

__ BTW -:- US knowledge review sessions:Comes from his siteNT -:- Tues, Feb 29, 2000 at 19:21:51 (GMT)

__ Wordsworth -:- he hopes for US knowledge review sessions -:- Tues, Feb 29, 2000 at 12:10:36 (GMT)

__ __ Jim -:- Effective at WHAT? -:- Wed, Mar 01, 2000 at 03:57:45 (GMT)

__ __ JW -:- Haven't You Noticed? -:- Tues, Feb 29, 2000 at 20:57:26 (GMT)

__ __ __ Djuro -:- Haven't You Noticed? -:- Wed, Mar 01, 2000 at 17:32:50 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ cqg -:- noticed? -:- Thurs, Mar 02, 2000 at 20:41:20 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Jerry -:- Haven't You Noticed? -:- Wed, Mar 01, 2000 at 21:32:25 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ JW -:- Haven't You Noticed? -:- Wed, Mar 01, 2000 at 18:14:44 (GMT)

__ __ JB -:- he hopes for US knowledge review sessions -:- Tues, Feb 29, 2000 at 18:32:44 (GMT)

__ __ SB -:- If you were worshiping, then... -:- Tues, Feb 29, 2000 at 17:42:11 (GMT)

__ __ Leaky -:- What you're missing here -:- Tues, Feb 29, 2000 at 16:03:55 (GMT)

__ __ Hal -:- May I suggest? -:- Tues, Feb 29, 2000 at 14:44:08 (GMT)

__ __ __ Joey -:- No big deal Hal,but.... -:- Tues, Feb 29, 2000 at 15:38:17 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ jeez joey, give the guy a -:- break-yer jumpin on his every word (nt) -:- Tues, Feb 29, 2000 at 16:18:22 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ hey, you're -:- the one who's all 'jumpy'. Relax (nt) -:- Wed, Mar 01, 2000 at 13:34:43 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Hal -:- Oops ! n.t.. -:- Tues, Feb 29, 2000 at 16:07:16 (GMT)

__ __ JHB -:- he hopes for US knowledge review sessions -:- Tues, Feb 29, 2000 at 12:38:10 (GMT)

__ __ __ Way -:- To Wordsworth -:- Tues, Feb 29, 2000 at 17:12:41 (GMT)

Date: Wed, Mar 01, 2000 at 11:42:08 (GMT) From: Hal Email: None To: Everyone Subject: the late great devotees Message:

Dear All, I would be interested to know about any of the top line honcho types, instructors , celebrities who are now ex-premies. In particular those that we knew well in the U:K during the 70's and eighties. Thanks

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Date: Wed, Mar 01, 2000 at 16:05:56 (GMT) From: Djuro Email: None To: Hal Subject: the late great devotees Message:

Are you one of them?

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Date: Wed, Mar 01, 2000 at 16:07:36 (GMT) From: Hal Email: None To: Djuro Subject: the late great devotees Message:

No my friend I never reached even minor celebrity status.

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Date: Wed, Mar 01, 2000 at 16:47:52 (GMT) From: Djuro Email: None To: Hal Subject: the late great devotees Message:

Why not?

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Date: Wed, Mar 01, 2000 at 11:15:19 (GMT) From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Undertaking a 'severe and sincere cleanup' ... Message:

Hey guys, I'm going to help you doing this. Here's some new stuff on my website: EV's Guidelines for finance managing This is confidential stuff, and unauthorized people shouldn't read this ...... Please return these documents to EV immediately !! Some juicy excerpts: Support wide spread understanding of the policies and procedures that create sound and ethical legal and financial practices that are in compliance with the laws and supportive of propagation. ....... 1. The bank account should be managed by a person who understands finances. 2. Keep exact records of receipts and disbursements in case of IRS inquiry. All revenue and expenses need to be accounted for. (See Exhibit 1 sample of ledger sheet) ......... 23. Why is it important to keep good books and records? In the event of an IRS audit, it is very helpful if the books and records are impeccable. If there are irregularities, the IRS might want to look at other local organizations' books or at Elan Vital, Inc. What could be possibly wrong in EV's other books ?????

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Date: Thurs, Mar 02, 2000 at 05:20:39 (GMT) From: bb Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: 'Blyssville' ! Message:

Egad! Did you notice that on the form that JM showed they refer to a town called 'blyssville' as having made the grevious financial sin of maybe SHAREING the videos with another town that was not paying the 250$ fee.

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Date: Thurs, Mar 02, 2000 at 03:54:51 (GMT) From: Leaky Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: Undertaking a 'severe and sincere cleanup' ... Message:

Dear Jean, Did I miss something? I see a reference to a 'purge' & sackings but I see no quote from m on this. Care to tell me where? I hope someone is not reading words into 'severe & sincere cleanup.' This is how we get grapevine reputation. We only want the facts, man. Thanks, Leaky

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Date: Wed, Mar 01, 2000 at 16:01:08 (GMT) From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: and another Agya of Rawat's Message:

Here's a message I've just received from one of my underground moles: m has issued a RED ALERT/HIGHEST PRIORITY assignment to his top minions...create a counter website to NEUTRALIZE the ex-sites! Why? 1/ Too many people are reading the ex-sites, causing much confusion, and EV has been completely silent. More confusion = less $$ !! 2/ The current EV 'purge' will probably create many new ex's, as old timers are 'fired' from long-held positions in EV. Wait and see what comes up !!!!

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Date: Wed, Mar 01, 2000 at 18:37:34 (GMT) From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: and more details from UK mole! Message:

This website IS being created right now here in the UK by m's direct command...I haven't yet heard about it's content, but the purpose is to provide counter-balance to the ex-sites (that ought to be a neat trick!). It feels like a desparation move...they have to do it, because your efforts have been so successful, and they KNOW that the existing EV sites are pretty worthless. As you know, when m speaks, PAM's jump and they look like they are on pogo sticks right now! I have also not yet heard anything about who has been 'fired' in the purge, but everyone is at risk, if they aren't willing to pledge total devotion to the cult. If m WAS divine, wouldn't he KNOW where all the leaks were coming from? Your pal, London Underground

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Date: Thurs, Mar 02, 2000 at 00:38:35 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: DON'T DO IT LORD!!! Message:

Maharaji, All kidding aside, if you even begin to answer your critics, point for point, you're done. It's like you've picked up the Devil's gauntlet and agreed to a duel, on his turf, under his terms. Now how you gonna win that, boy? But for everyone else, is this going to be fun or what? Can't wait myself.

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Date: Thurs, Mar 02, 2000 at 20:32:23 (GMT) From: Lord Queensbury Email: None To: Jim Subject: Who's turf do you answer YOUR critics on, Jim?(nt) Message:

Who's turf do YOU answer YOUR critics on, Jim?(nt)

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Date: Thurs, Mar 02, 2000 at 20:45:17 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: Lord Queensbury Subject: Stupid, stupid, STUPID premie Message:

Listen, idiot, I / we -- a lot of us have tried to find some foothold to start a discussion with the cult on its turf, our turf, any turf. But the drawbridge is up, isn't it? So, obviously, we start this little camp outside the walls fo the cult. If Maharaji wants to defend himself -- or attack us -- he can do it here. He could also do it 'there' -- anywhere. I'm not concerned. If Maharaji invited me to his palatial monstrosity (built, in part, with some of the money he got out of me over an eight-year stretch), I'd go. The place doesn't matter, fella. Now what other great issues do you have to discuss?

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Date: Fri, Mar 03, 2000 at 19:50:47 (GMT) From: idiot ex-premie Email: None To: Jim Subject: Drawbridge is up = Maha in state of siege -dig(nt) Message:

Drawbridge is up = Maha in state of siege -dig(nt)

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Date: Wed, Mar 01, 2000 at 18:55:04 (GMT) From: Joey Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: and more details from UK mole! Message:

Hey JM, Do you think they'll invite us over for a 'chat'? :::)) I mean those guys certainly don't mind dropping in here. I was wondering if they'll allow us to drop in over there. Whaddya think?

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Date: Wed, Mar 01, 2000 at 16:34:21 (GMT) From: Susan Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: they need to hire us as consultants...... Message:

okay, so they can't buy my assistance. I have some ethics. But I will give it for free. Rawat, PAMs, let me share some of what I think could help you build a bigger, better, more lucrative, more seductive cult. I cannot take credit for all these ideas...but they are all over the forum. Your biggest asset has ALWAYS been the premies themselves. Go back to satsangs. Your heydey as a cult was based on that. Rawat your ego won't let you see it, and frankly you were not there, you were in a mansion somewhere, but the premies were what hooked eachother. You need to go back to the system of letting the premies TALK to eachtother. It was totally seductive. They mistake the love and good feelings they get from those friendships as divine inspiration from you, they give you all the credit for what is they are giving to eachother. It was a great system. Not perfect, but hey, you sure got new devotees, and lots of bucks, in a way you don't anymore I hear. Bring back Holi. Sure it is weird, and written up in magazines. But Rawat, it WAS A BLAST. I loved it. The only fun we ever had. When you get on the water cannon, spraying them with the giant phallus again, have them play 'Do ya think I'm sexy' for old times sake. Let the premies sing together again. It has a very unifying, bonding effect. It taps right into the subconcious. Like lullabies. Even now, someone mentioned that damn family of love movie and I cannot get the 'See her Premlata' song out of my mind...25 years later. Music is a powerful tool of indoctrination. You are gonna have to do some sort of Darshan. Maybe no footkissing but something. The other thing you can do is look at what other cult are doing that have held onto their members better than you have. Maybe you can get some ideas from the scientologists?

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Date: Wed, Mar 01, 2000 at 17:00:39 (GMT) From: Joey Email: None To: Susan Subject: they need to hire us as consultants...... Message:

Funny post Susan. I really enjoyed it. Just a couple of comments regarding your last two suggestions to Rawat. You are gonna have to do some sort of Darshan. Maybe no footkissing but something. Well he's already figured something out at least for Amtext premies. No footkissing, just m giving everyone plastic pyramids himself, personally. The other thing you can do is look at what other cult are doing that have held onto their members better than you have. Maybe you can get some ideas from the scientologists? Perhaps that's what certain pams are up to in attending 'Insight' seminars, sponsored by John Roger Hinkins' MSIA cult (that's Movement for Spiritual Inner Awareness, another rhadasoami derivative) as reported to us by JM in a previous post.

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Date: Wed, Mar 01, 2000 at 18:20:13 (GMT) From: Way Email: None To: Susan Subject: they need to hire us as consultants...... Message:

Great, Susan! Yes, Rawat, listen to her - there has to be a darshan experience where the faithful have direct contact with you and get high, or even faint. Perhaps looking directly into the eyes and blowing holy breath into the ear? Sure, some people will think it's weird, but devotees have their needs, you know. It's your job to supply them. Also, community is very very important. No transfering people around. Let them firmly establish their family bonds and local residences. Let them keep more of their money, enough so they can build structures and systems they depend on in their every day lives and which are inextracably associated with your grace. Bring the ashrams back. There are ways to avoid the financial pitfalls. Every community needs a few celibates to look up to who have direct inner links to the Knowledge within. However, be careful to let the rank and file have loads of sex without any guilt. Stress 'enjoyment' over and over again in your peptalks. Bring back initiators who come to town from time to time with glorious darshan stories. These initiators must spend a lot of quality time with you personally, Rawat, and they must be given lots and lots of priviledges and perks. Treat them like dirt, yourself, but demand that everybody else threat them with a degree of the respect that you yourself deserve. Get off your ass and visit the premies where they live, no matter how measly the community's size. They love that best of all, haven't you heard? They love creating lovely places for you to stay,pampering you in every possible way, (especially the women and the gay men). They have lots of love and energy to spend so put them to work adoring and serving you. Sure, you'll get awfully tired with such a travel schedule at your age, but the rewards will be worth it. In essence, bring back all the trappings, without them you are nothing, as you probably realize by now.

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Date: Wed, Mar 01, 2000 at 20:24:20 (GMT) From: Susan Email: None To: Way Subject: if I were Rawat I would hire you Way! (nt) Message:

nt

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Date: Wed, Mar 01, 2000 at 20:29:30 (GMT) From: Way Email: None To: Susan Subject: I'll apply if you do! (nt) Message:

nt

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Date: Wed, Mar 01, 2000 at 22:05:52 (GMT) From: Susan Email: None To: Way Subject: My fellow consultant Way.... Message:

I think that Rawat should get the old weirdo pics out of the vaults. I think that there are some premies who visit these ex sites as we are the ones with the photos of the Speaker that they are not allowed to see. Forbidden fruit is always sweeter. Way do you agree? Rawat has never seemed to worry about appearing contradictory. In fact the more contradictory he is, the more premies percieve it as a test. I believe that the old time premies he has left hang on for one of two typical reasons. Some think he is only testing them by not playing God anymore. Besides it seems he is happy to play the God scene in India. The other reason is pure nostalgia. He has a real market there. Frankly, sometimes I enjoy the nostalgia here and I am a hard core ex, so what a market there would be among the faithful. He could bring back arti trays, charnamit, baragons, etc and there are I am sure individuals who would see them as relics of their lost youths. Are you taking notes you PAM lurkers? The first one to take our advice will get the most darshan.

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Date: Wed, Mar 01, 2000 at 22:46:16 (GMT) From: Way Email: None To: Susan Subject: Back to Susan: Message:

Susan, It's hard for me to understand the old-timers who are still involved. I have discussed the issues with only a few of my personal friends who are still premies and they all seem to carry the old beliefs from the 70's still intact somehow. One woman especially who was always the gopi type is still waiting for Rawat to reveal himself to the world. What can you say? I myself did enjoy all the trappings of the 70's. I was one of those who had their own extensive stash of photos and prized the most outlandish ones - ones with the white pearls, or in the swimming pool, or personal ones with his children, all that sort of thing. But when I attended the Long Beach 1996 event, I visited the room where they were selling the photos and I found it all quite disgusting. I had lost all sense of him being the avatar. Without him as the Higher Power in Person, the whole trip is truly repulsive and sick.

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Date: Wed, Mar 01, 2000 at 18:45:55 (GMT) From: Prem Rawat Email: None To: Way Subject: Are you guys pulling my leg? Message:

Who's going to pay for all this? EV's and my private bank account are not getting enough these days. My G4 is grounded. I NEED MONEY! I think I'm going to hire Jean-Michel, at least he's a doctor and doesn't say stupid things on the forum.

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Date: Wed, Mar 01, 2000 at 16:45:36 (GMT) From: Jean-Michel Email: jmkahn@club-internet.fr To: Susan Subject: GREAT IDEA: I officially apply Mr Rawat! Message:

I'll be a bit expensive, but I guess you now need people like us to solve your problems Mr Rawat. E-mail me, and maybe will make an agreement. I won't disclose anything if you're acting fairly ....

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Date: Wed, Mar 01, 2000 at 16:06:07 (GMT) From: Hal Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: Good work and good news Jean-Michel nt Message:

nt

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Date: Wed, Mar 01, 2000 at 11:52:16 (GMT) From: Marianne Email: Mariannedb@aol.com To: Jean-Michel Subject: IRS audit worries Message:

Jean-Michel: Oh thank you for this post! Geez, we don't want the IRS poking around in Elan Vital, Inc.'s books, do we? They're concerned about the possibility of an IRS audit, are they? They ought to be! This is the kind of remedial memo attorneys send out when they are trying to fix a problem, or lay the foundation for putting the blame elsewhere. I think that the move from meditation teacher into EST-type teaching methods is an attempt to fix things for audit purposes too. How's Paris? I'm in training for a repeat of Latvian night in the City of Light! Love, Marianne

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Date: Wed, Mar 01, 2000 at 14:20:55 (GMT) From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Marianne Subject: Hey Marianne ? Message:

What do you understand by 'severe and sincere cleanup' ???? Or maybe we should ask Rawat himself to share a little bit of his understanding ? Is this Al Capone speak ? Still looking for the Latvian club in Paris ..... Maybe an Irish pub will do, now you're almost Irish ?

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Date: Wed, Mar 01, 2000 at 19:14:52 (GMT) From: Marianne Email: Mariannedb@aol.com To: Jean-Michel Subject: Severe and sincere clean up -- read dysfunction! Message:

What do I think severe and sincere clean up means? I think it means Rotwat is trying to strike fear in the hearts of premies to make them do what he wants -- get him more money and toys. This sounds like the verbal cue a physically or emotionally abusive parent gives when they are just on the verge of slugging a kid with fists or words. In reality, there is nothing the kid can ever do to satisfy this kind of parent -- no deed is good enough. That's what Rotwat does -- threaten to withhold his love until he gets what he wants. It's dysfunctional in the extreme -- and when you're a needy kid, you'll do whatever the parent wants, so great is the fear of losing the smidgen of love you've come to accept as your meager entitlement. Satsang was full of this kind of subtext. I ate it up and believed it, coming from a dysfunctional home myself. It was the only way I knew how to live til I LEFT the cult. So, no Latvian club in Paris, eh? I am sure you can steer us toward some trendy Parisian bistro where both Rafael and I can be insulted for not speaking French. Rafael may receive better treatment since he speaks Spanish fluently. Me -- just an English speaking Yank..... By the way, I have a bunch of law students from Lyon, Germany and other countries taking my legal writing class at the university. They each speak at least 3 languages. They're in their early 20's. Very impressive. Email me about any vacation plans you have. Rafael is in London as we speak, staying at the Latvian club! He's an honorary ex, I think. He's trying to hook up with Anth, but we're not sure that will happen. Looking forward to seeing you again, J-M. Love, Marianne

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Date: Wed, Mar 01, 2000 at 20:59:47 (GMT) From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Marianne Subject: Great analysis Marianne Message:

I'm not from a dysfunctional family, and I've always thought he was a bit crazy playing that sort of game with people. Both my parents were pretty much cold usually, specially my father, but never abusive. I've never reacted to this sort of abusive behavior according to what Rawat was expecting of course. I knew it wasn't destined to me somehow. I would think his behaviour was 'beyond my understanding', or 'mind-blowing', whatever. I think I can understand now how some premies I know are locked in this pattern. I guess they'll end up understanding something when they'll be fed up with his behaviour. All his crazyness does make sense in a way ..... pathetic gooroo. This information is extremely interesting indeed, thank you London Underground!

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Date: Wed, Mar 01, 2000 at 10:28:14 (GMT) From: Hal Email: None To: Everyone Subject: the nerdiest thing Message:

A while back there was a thread along the lines of: What was the most embarrassing thing M ever said. At that time a few weeks ago I was unable to admit that I found M embarrassing. The most cringing moment for me was that film of him and Marolyn running along the beach in that 'gone with the wind' type scene. Running towards each other , arms outstretched. Yuk! Another film I always squirmed at was the wedding,with all those teary eyed premies in the chapel. Puke. and at that time I was at my most devoted. Hal

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Date: Wed, Mar 01, 2000 at 15:34:29 (GMT) From: Way Email: None To: Hal Subject: St. John the Baptist Message:

I felt a hush of embarassment come over the crowd at the Rome 1977 program when Rawat loudly proclaimed that St. John the Baptist was the author of the Gospel of John.

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Date: Wed, Mar 01, 2000 at 21:21:01 (GMT) From: DOD Email: None To: Way Subject: St. John the Baptist Message:

That faux paus was easily explained--English Second Language--after all, the LOTU doesn't make mistakes. Everything he says and does is perfect including his dead seeds vs. zygote satsang.

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Date: Wed, Mar 01, 2000 at 15:34:01 (GMT) From: Susan Email: None To: Hal Subject: Family of Love (nt) Message:

nt

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Date: Wed, Mar 01, 2000 at 09:22:03 (GMT) From: Loafji Email: Loafji@yahoo.com To: Everyone Subject: Car Boot sale Message:

I've got a beragon a signed picture of Milky Cole a couple of photo albums full of feet a zit between my eyebrows ear wax some very dodgy passport photos looking like I was trying not to yawn but also seem serene and all knowing some badly drip tye-died clothing a dusty altar and a rancid ghee arti tray some PMT (!) Cassettes and Elevator Music any offers .....

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Date: Thurs, Mar 02, 2000 at 05:25:00 (GMT) From: ole shoe Email: None To: Loafji Subject: Car Boot sale Message:

Send the pmt's to someone before throwing them out.

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Date: Wed, Mar 01, 2000 at 11:28:05 (GMT) From: Reluctant to say Email: None To: Loafji Subject: Car Boot sale Message:

Dear Loafji, Let me start by saying you are disgusting to the max. However, I will trade you the ear wax for a badly scrawled note offering me a one-night stand (at least I don't think he wanted it to go any longer than that) from Derek Harper. Got enought PMT to last me till menopause thanks. Unless of course you meant Post Mahraji Tension which, by all accounts should last me until Doomsday. To free yourself of the rest of your excess cargo, the answer has already been provided by premie Sandra Cabot in the form of the liver cleansing diet. The fact that she devotes three or more books to cleansing an organ which rids your body of toxins seems so ironic considering the toxins she allows into her mind. Follow her instructions to the letter, vaccuum your car boot after evacuation and go for a very long drive to a mountain top. Sit for as long as feels comfortable then drive back home. Buy one of those pine shaped vinyl car air fresheners and hang it from your rear view mirror then go to sleep. Those photos where you seem serene and knowing, I know that look but I have always interpreted it as just plain 'smug'. Use your picture of Milky Cole to clean up any accidents. Let me know about the 'ear wax' trade.

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Date: Wed, Mar 01, 2000 at 15:05:24 (GMT) From: Jack Email: None To: Reluctant to say Subject: That's to funny you guys! (nt) Message:

(nt)

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Date: Wed, Mar 01, 2000 at 15:25:48 (GMT) From: Hal Email: None To: Jack Subject: Hey Jackie! Message:

Dear Jackie, I said that I would contact you on the recent exes forum but I can't get through. I tried recentexes@yahoo.com and couldn't get there. Can you help? Love Hal.

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Date: Thurs, Mar 02, 2000 at 04:35:19 (GMT) From: Jackie Email: None To: Hal Subject: Hey Hal Message:

Dear HAl, There are a few people here who have my email. Jean-Michel (his email is on his Journey.) Anthony also & Marianne both have emails on their journeys. Other alternative is asking here, to be allowed in on recent exforum Runamok will see it and ask everyone there if you'd be welcome. I'm pretty sure you would be. You've been on your best behaviour as far as I can tell even though you've been given a rough ride by Joey here. There were a group of new ones recently accepted. I was hoping you would be one of them. All the Best, Jackie

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Date: Fri, Mar 03, 2000 at 17:56:21 (GMT) From: Joey Email: None To: Jackie Subject: Attention: JACKIE Message:

You've been on your best behaviour as far as I can tell even though you've been given a rough ride by Joey here. For the record Jackie, IMO, it was I who was given a rough ride by Hal and not vice versa. I believe the anger that I have for the cult is valid and legitimate. It's not a sign of there being something wrong with me. It's a sign of there being something wrong with the cult. What's NOT legimate IMO, is for someone to characterize this anger as the kind of hatred causing religious wars between Muslims and Christians complete with the images of 'people being hacked to death by machetes', images so graciously supplied by Hal. Its one thing if we allow the cult's apologists to come here to try and convince us that there's something wrong with our anger. It's quite another if we buy into this ill conceived notion and do it to ourselves. Again, our anger against the cult is both valid and legitimate and we should give each other the room to express and deal with it...without calling each other bigots on account of it, as Hal did to me. All the best to you Jackie, Joey

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Date: Sat, Mar 04, 2000 at 03:09:16 (GMT) From: Jackie Email: None To: Joey Subject: Attention: JACKIE Message:

Dear Joey, I just think it would be healthier if some posters here were more 'at cause' over their anger instead of it fixating them on M. I agree with Hal I have never been so fixated on m as the last year on this forum. I want out and I'm sure I'll get some encouragement after this post but I'm fixated too and possibly lonely and unhappy. Anyone else out there admitting to this? Jackie

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Date: Sat, Mar 04, 2000 at 12:30:26 (GMT) From: Jethro Email: None To: Jackie Subject: Attention: JACKIE Message:

'...but I'm fixated too and possibly lonely and unhappy. Anyone else out there admitting to this?' When I 'came out' I felt alot like you have described. However my fixation on m was certainly no more than when I was premie.(I was a fundamentalist believer in constant rememberance of the holy name) This site gave the opportunity to say my thoughts and feelings that I had not been able to say over the years because I belived it was 'mind'. The first years or so was horrendous and very nearly didn't survive. All I can say is the part of myself that I 'gave away' does come back and I can reconstruct. I am trying to forgive myself for the wasted years, but as time goes on I dwell upon it less and less...especially as I build my new life. All the best Jethro

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Date: Sat, Mar 04, 2000 at 04:47:33 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: Jackie Subject: Attention: JACKIE Message:

Jackie, In all seriousness, I'm with you somewhat. No, I don't think any of us are 'obsessive / complusive' and I don't even want to know what 'at cause' is supposed to mean. No thnaks on that one. But I do know there's a bit of a problem here. See, after a lifetime of never getting involved in causes other than pursuing my own satisfaction (oh, yeah, and trying to bring peace to the world for eight years), I got involved in this shit. I, too, have given m a hell of a lot more thought than I ever thought I would these last three or four years. In large part, yech! Good money after bad, so to speak. I've gained weight, lost opportunites to do SOMETHING else (not sure what exactly but it wouldn't have been babysitting my monitor waiting for idiotic cult members to evade obvious points and questions). I think the problem's two-fold: one, the net itself creates this world-wide, non-stop discussion. It's a conversation pit that never stops, in which YOU never stop. We never really leave because we never really come. We're really like ghosts a bit, huh? The other problem is that we're actualyl getting somewhere. We've had an amazing effect on the cult all told. No doubt about it. And, as our aim is true, it's hard to stop shooting once you've tasted a little blood. Soon m's going to have his own spin-doctored site up or something to that effect, according to his Manicurist. Who doesn't want to watch the fun? So it's a problem alright. Don't know the answer. Good luck to those who want to leave but all glory to those who hang in there to really stick this pig.

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Date: Sun, Mar 05, 2000 at 17:14:13 (GMT) From: gerry Email: None To: Jim Subject: Stickin' the Pig LOL (nt) Message:

LOL So THAT'S what we're doing. Now I get it!

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Date: Thurs, Mar 02, 2000 at 19:33:16 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: Jackie Subject: Recent Exes is BULLSHIT! Message:

Just to hear you talk about 'being accepted' ... 'good behaviour' (even ifyou're being faceitous) makes me cringe. But tell me, Jackie -- because neither Run nor Katie chose to answer the question -- what 'guidelines', if any, were ever implemented regarding talking about non RE members there?

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Date: Thurs, Mar 02, 2000 at 17:33:19 (GMT) From: Jackie Email: None To: Hal Subject: Hey Hal Message:

Try expremies@yahoo.com Jackie

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Date: Wed, Mar 01, 2000 at 05:48:23 (GMT) From: Sir Dave Email: david@xyzx.freeserve.co.uk To: Everyone Subject: Just a reminder Message:

To see all of the ex-premie sites, both old and new, just click here to go see the whole picture. I saw a few people asking about the site with the K techniques on with photos etc. They're on Cultwatch, which is at the end of the links list.

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Date: Wed, Mar 01, 2000 at 14:31:46 (GMT) From: Sir Dave again Email: None To: Sir Dave Subject: And meet my new guru Message:

He's young, he's handsome and sports a most divine lotus foot. You can see him on The ANYTHING GOES Forum or better still, visit my Incarnations of God page. You'll see that the Holy Mother (a different Mataji) has a cult with striking similarities to Maharaji's business. Read the ex-Mataji-devotees site and you'll see the same stuff being written by her current and ex devotees as is written by Maharaji's current and ex devotees.

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Date: Tues, Feb 29, 2000 at 15:45:30 (GMT) From: SB Email: None To: Everyone Subject: MAHARAJI'S QUOTE: Knowledge is a LSD trip Message:

'Man takes L.S.D. While he's under its effect, he's o.k. But the LSD finishes, he's not o.k. He is not happy. What that man is actually doing is flying over rough, rough weather. He goes up, he comes down. He goes up, he comes down. It's not going to help him. What I have got is a constant LSD. It's built into you. It was provided to you as standard, not optional. As necessary. I can show you that, so leave these things and come to me. Discover it.' - Guru Maharaj Ji

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Date: Tues, Feb 29, 2000 at 16:03:14 (GMT) From: Hal Email: None To: SB Subject: MAHARAJI'S QUOTE: Knowledge is a LSD trip Message:

Dear S B Yes I remember that quote. In fact in my first satsang in 72 I remember this guy saying 'man, this knowledge is like a rocket, man, it's like you don't need acid man,it like starts in your toes man and goes up through your body and just blows your mind.' As a fascinated psychedelic voyager of 18 yrs old ,how could I resist? Can't say meditation ever matched up to tripping at a Floyd concert though. Does anyone still remember the visits from the w.p.c. telling us to get our hair cut and get a nice suit from the jumble sale?

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Date: Tues, Feb 29, 2000 at 20:18:35 (GMT) From: Charlie Email: charlie@demont.co.uk To: Hal Subject: MAHARAJI'S QUOTE: Knowledge is a LSD trip Message:

Hi Hal, it's funny but what you say about hair cuts and suits was something that I mention in my journey which I've been writing over the last couple of days. In fact I've read several things today that echo aspect of my journey so far, Anth's cod fishing post in particular. I will be submitting my journey in a few days. C PS. I've been to Portugal for holidays for the last two years. Nearest town Almancil staying at Vale do Garro. Do you know these places?

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Date: Tues, Feb 29, 2000 at 16:08:04 (GMT) From: Miss Prim Email: None To: Hal Subject: Short Hair and Suits Message:

Yes Glen was good at that. He also told me to take my make-up off.... wouldn't have been so bad but I'm a guy! Off course that was the time of the long dresses. Perhaps with the short hair & suits (which came later) he would be telling me to put my make-up back on! That's the trouble with these confounded religions - you have to do what other people tell you to do. So confusing. Miss Prim

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Date: Tues, Feb 29, 2000 at 15:54:06 (GMT) From: Marianne Email: None To: SB Subject: Source and date? Message:

SB: Thank you for this quote. It sounds like the boy, circa '71 or '72. Where did you find the quote? When and where was it said? Satsang to western premies, wasn't it? Marianne

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Date: Tues, Feb 29, 2000 at 17:36:51 (GMT) From: SB Email: None To: Marianne Subject: Source and date? Message:

At this moment I do not have the 'original' satsang where he said that; I have it some where. The LSD quote was on a paper from an US ashram, which were going to be thrown away,according to the premies who gave them to me, when the ahsrams were closing. The satsang where M said that about LSD is in one of the Divine Times newspapers. Yeah, it must be begining of 70's. Somebody on RE forum mentioned that mahatmas were saying then that Knowledge was like a LSD trip, and I remembered that M said that, originally; the mahatmas were repeating it. I thought in posting it here too. Talking about advertisement! A LSD trip...

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Date: Wed, Mar 01, 2000 at 17:21:50 (GMT) From: Djuro Email: None To: SB Subject: Source and date? Message:

What I've heard from Maharaji: A junky told him: taking heroin, I see the light. He answered: When you are in a tunel, the only light you see is an express train comming...

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Date: Wed, Mar 01, 2000 at 23:16:31 (GMT) From: Scott T. Email: None To: Djuro Subject: Source and date? Message:

So, in M's universe heroin is bad and LSD good? Anyway, acidheads are a lot more likely to make contributions to DLM than junkies, so that policy position isn't hard to understand...

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Date: Tues, Feb 29, 2000 at 20:59:19 (GMT) From: Powerman Email: None To: SB Subject: Source and date? Message:

I remember that quote from the Who Is Guru Maharaj Ji book. It's in there in one of his satsangs.

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Date: Tues, Feb 29, 2000 at 11:54:33 (GMT) From: AJW Email: None To: John, Susan and Everyone Subject: Catching Cod. Message:

John started a thread below, called ‘What is the experience?’. Susan wrote a response, which I agreed with, where she mentioned ‘Getting hooked’ in the ‘knowledge session’. I think it’s more getting ‘netted’ than getting hooked, and it happens long before the ‘knowledge session’. It’s like one of those large, funnel shaped nets, that’s dragged along by a trawler. The further down the funnel you go, the more intense it gets, and finally, at the end, is the cult initiation ceremony, called a ‘knowledge session’, designed to flop you out the other end, on a cold table, where the master stands with his fish knife, ready to liberate you. The funnel is there to make sure that, when you show up for the initiation ceremony, you are already a believer. It filters people out until only the faithful remain at the end. It works something like this: 1. A cult member gets a friend, colleague, or family member to come along to a special ‘introductory video’. Most people sniff ‘cult’ even at this early stage, and decline the offer. 2. Those who go to the video, are attending an event which is specifically designed to lure them further into the tunnel. Usually cult members, who are renowned for scaring new people away with their guru worshipping diatribe, are kept away from these events, unless they are bringing in fresh cannon fodder. 3. The next stage down the funnel is to attend a few more ‘introductory videos’, and get softened up for stage 4, the ‘instructor’. 4. When you get the idea that ‘knowledge’ is ‘an inner experience’, and Maharaji is the ‘giver’ or ‘teacher’, you’re ready to meet an instructor. These characters have been around since the cult came West in the late 60s, and have been called by different names- ‘mahatmas’, ‘initiators’, ‘instructors’, and, in the new ‘EST’ style fad that the cult seems to be entering, will probably be called ‘facilitators’, or ‘consciousness managers’ or something. Anyway, a ‘cult priest’ will interview you, and decide if you’ve been softened up enough to invite you along to a private session. 5. The private session takes place in a small, comfortable environment. The cult priest grills you, shows you a video, answers questions and determines if you are ‘ready for knowledge’, ie, ready to be initiated into the cult. Basically this means accepting that the meditation techniques you will be shown are an experience of ‘inner truth’, ‘your lifeforce’, or whatever way you feel most comfortable describing what religious folk call the ‘spirit’, or ‘soul’. (There has been a strong move away from ‘spiritual terminology’ within the cult, for the past few years.) It also means accepting that Maharaji is the only teacher who can show you this ‘inner truth’, or ‘knowledge’. When you’ve swallowed these two spoons of medecine (‘knowledge’ is ‘inner truth’, Maharaji is the one and only master of it.), then you’re ready for the next stage in the tunnel. 6. The ‘knowledge selection session’, is the final process before initiation into the cult. If you ‘pass’ the selection process (because by now, you should be hungry for truth and hungry to become a follower of Maharaji), you go through to the ‘knowledge session’, where you declare there is no other Master than Maharaji, and you understand that what you are about to experience is ‘precious inner peace, lifeforce etc’. Another fat fish, ready for the plate. 7. Finally of course, there is the ‘knowledge session’, where you are shown the techniques and made a member of the cult. After that, you can go to special meetings for cult members only, practice the meditation every morning and fill out a standing order. Welcome to ‘Guruworld’, where the only position in the organisation is prostrate before the master. It’s not always as I’ve described. Once the priests did the initiation, now they select and Maharaji does, mass initiation sessions himself. The packaging is always changing, and premies will always tell you, ‘Yes, indeed, it did used to be crazy. But it’s all changed now. They’re called ‘facilitators’, not ‘instructors’, he’s called a ‘teacher’ not a ‘guru’, it’s not called ‘a knowledge session’, it’s a ‘consciousness seminar’, ‘…or whatever. However the process is described, it’s designed to get you flat on the slab, ready for gutting. Your freewill, discrimination, morals, and of course your cash, will all be removed, then it’s into the freezer for a few years premie-ji, until an Ex’ comes along and pulls the plug, so you can thaw out. Or maybe the electricity fails, and you melt naturally. Luckily, like in ancient Egypt, your vital organs have been preserved in jars, and function as good as new, when restored. Anth the Fish Finger.

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Date: Wed, Mar 01, 2000 at 16:04:54 (GMT) From: Susan Email: None To: AJW Subject: Bravo Anth and hey Rog.....don't let this one slip Message:

away. Best of Forum!!!!!

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Date: Tues, Feb 29, 2000 at 20:35:21 (GMT) From: JW Email: None To: AJW Subject: Some Additions Message:

Anth, very well said and I agree with you completely. The cult indoctrination and programming takes place BEFORE one recieves knowledge. If one is not sufficiently programmed (or in 'cult-speak' doesn't have UNDERSTANDING,) they will not get knowledge, unless they are REALLY GOOD at faking it. I would add a couple of additional things to what you wrote. In cult-step 5, one of the things the 'instructor' is looking for is a dedication to and a willingness to worship Maharaji, even before having knowledge. This, of course, is never mentioned in the early phases of the aspirant process, but is gradually introduced later on, and it is essential to get knowledge. The instructor gleans this information from the interview, as well as the premies giving covert intelligence reports to the instructor that this aspirant has given appropriate evidence of being duly devoted. In cult-step 6, the knowledge 'selection', all kinds of games are played on people, a kind of cat and mouse sort of thing, in which one is kept wondering if he or she will be selected or not. This has the effect of making people WANT it so badly, that they are willing to say/do anything, and then if they ARE selected, they feel very special and privileged. These techniques have the effect of diminishing the disappointment people feel when they find out how disappointing 'knowledge,' the 'experience' they have been pining for, actually is. They also need a lot of group reinforcement, premies telling them that what they have 'experienced' is truly wonderful and that they are now accepted into the cult. Once one has received knowledge, most of what the cult does is give excuses to people as to why they aren't having the experience the fat-boy promised. They are told their minds are powerful, that the world distracts you, that you don't make enough effort, that you must be constantly reminded, and other such utter nonsense. Since it's easier for most people to accept this bullshit instead of questioning what one has already put so much into and would feel like a fool to reject, many new 'premies' go along with the program. What's astounding is that most apparently do not, or can only do it for so long before either rejecting it, or, more likely, just drifting away.

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Date: Tues, Feb 29, 2000 at 20:05:15 (GMT) From: Charlie Email: None To: AJW Subject: Catching Cod. Message:

Do we ever get to be served up in a basket with chips? Do we taste better with salt and vinegar?

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Date: Wed, Mar 01, 2000 at 10:44:58 (GMT) From: AJW Email: None To: Charlie Subject: Only with 'Daddies Sauce' (nt) Message:

Daddies Sauce is a popular brand of spicey, brown sauce, available in most UK supermarkets. Try it, you'll like it.

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Date: Tues, Feb 29, 2000 at 19:52:40 (GMT) From: Captain BirdsEye Email: None To: AJW Subject: Catching Cold. Message:

With you all the way, Anth, up to the 'freezer' analogy. More like a simmering pot of broth: warm & fuzzy. (you remember)...

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Date: Tues, Feb 29, 2000 at 17:54:27 (GMT) From: Remy Email: None To: AJW Subject: Catching Cod. Message:

AJW - I appreciated reading your description of the initiation process. I did notice the use of 'some premies' in it. It leaves me wondering about the others. I know there are premies who get something out of it, have some discretion, and make their living within the organization. It seems to me also, M can't do it alone. For a person to lay her/him self open for gutting, it seems to me that person was lacking something to begin with. I don't think this is necessarily bad. Many people feel unfulfilled, many people need guidance. If they can get the help from whatever organized cult, religion or academic discipline....they're just another human getting through their day. M having so much money is definitely disconcerting to say the least. As the head of an organization with the people, money and potential to affect so much good, it's a shame to see it yachting or flying away to indulgences. Such the standard curse of our modern society that afflicts movies stars, rock stars, athletes, presidents and half-baked cult leaders. It does seem to me that with some discretion one can be part of a group. Its rare you are going to agree with everything and everyone within in, so why not just take what you need and deal with the rest -- either raise some questions or note your objections and get that slow awful thing called change going? It seems many of the people at this forum who call themselves ex-premies still have good memories from the experience or have taken something from it...in this sense, it will always be part of them. It seem it needs to be. Totally disregarding and trashing it would also be deeply criticizing their own choices in life...what good would that do? Everybody lapses in judgement...the trick is realizing that and becoming the wiser for it. I've been attending videos and reading this forum for some time now. They complement each other strangely well. Perhaps providing the necessary discretion in my life. I don't think M's cult is something I can ever sincerely be a part of, but not for any of the reasons I've read here. My main problem is with anything organized. I fled Catholism, academia, and Weight Watchers...why let myself melt away into some new group? Nonetheless, though I don't want my M membership badge, I still would like to go to videos...the rich little boy is a good speaker and picks interesting topics. Gives me a laugh, gives me something to argue with and its interesting to watch the others in the room react appropriately. This forum continues to be of interest because it questions so much. Maybe that is the underlying interest for me...people focusing on what they are living for and how to try to do it well.

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Date: Fri, Mar 03, 2000 at 21:57:10 (GMT) From: M's Manicurist Email: None To: Remy Subject: Premies acting appropriately Message:

Dear Remy, It drives me crazy to watch premies 'acting appropriately' I don't think m would appreciate it either. He's actually more intelligent than you people give him credit for. M's Manicurist

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Date: Wed, Mar 01, 2000 at 03:46:01 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: Remy Subject: GET THEE AWAY, SATAN!! Message:

Remy, You're one hopeless motherfucker. You seem to be one of those people aboslutely unable to look an inch or two below the surface. Go. Enjoy the videos. They're obviously meant for someone like you.

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Date: Wed, Mar 01, 2000 at 16:00:03 (GMT) From: Susan Email: None To: Jim Subject: Jim, I think you are off base here too... Message:

I do not read this one the way you do at all. I think this person may be going to these videos for the show. The see a cult in action show. I think that is what he or she is saying. Well, the only part that concerns me is the 'good speaker' part. I always struggled with boredom during the Speaker's satsangs. Hard to imagine that secretly everyone isn't. But couldn't you imagine just going to a video to watch the premies do their thing? Other than needing a barf bag it could be entertaining. Especially in concert with reading the forum. Maybe it is just this person's prefered form of entertainment. Just don't give them any money Remy.

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Date: Wed, Mar 01, 2000 at 16:32:42 (GMT) From: Jerry Email: None To: Susan Subject: Struggling with boredom Message:

I always struggled with boredom during the Speaker's satsangs. I always struggled with staying awake. Some of the most refreshing naps I've had, in fact, we're during the Speaker's satsang.

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Date: Wed, Mar 01, 2000 at 16:15:21 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: Susan Subject: Hardly, Susan Message:

Susan, Anyone who thinks the hamster is an 'good speaker' who 'picks interesting topics' is a fool. But that's not all. Everything this guy says has something wrong about it. What I'm reacting to is stupidity. The guy's stupid.

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Date: Wed, Mar 01, 2000 at 16:18:04 (GMT) From: Susan Email: None To: Jim Subject: Hardly, Susan Message:

Okay, you have a point there... But, it could be sort of interesting form of theater ( okay Anth and Nigel Theatre ) to attend videos etc and read the site. I would like to sneak into a function myself just for the laughs. Only I am afraid I might cry.

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Date: Wed, Mar 01, 2000 at 19:22:27 (GMT) From: Marianne Email: Mariannedb@aol.com To: Susan Subject: No sneaking into videos, Susan! Message:

Now Susan, you know that sneaking into videos will deprive you of about 500,000 brain cells a minute! How could you even consider it? Besides that, isn't it now God By Satellite, not videos? So is Latvian night SF in the making? I miss you, Susie Q, but I love it in Ireland even more. Love and kisses, Marianne

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Date: Wed, Mar 01, 2000 at 04:03:53 (GMT) From: gerry Email: None To: Jim Subject: You're being a dickhead, Jim Message:

Let this guy come to his own conclusions. Making useless inflammatory statements like that does nothing to help his/her situation. Surely you can do better than that. P.S. Pretty funny seeing your post guessing if Mir was Url or *gasp* Rob. Kinda like my thoughts on someone else here (who seems to have survived my so-called security breach outing--what a bunch of bullshit, btw.) So when did you become a hypocrite? Or have you always been one? And a cry baby squealer tattle tail rat if I may add. Bet the kids used to beat the shit outta you in school.

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Date: Wed, Mar 01, 2000 at 04:20:02 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: gerry Subject: Are you really that stupid, Gerry? Message:

Gerry, I asked if Mir was not, in fact, Url (a/k/a Nil). That's not at all what you did. What you did was too stupid for words. Go back to analyzing the Federal Reserve, Ger. I think you just might be on to something.

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Date: Wed, Mar 01, 2000 at 15:52:38 (GMT) From: gerry Email: None To: Jim Subject: And you're an all day sucker... Message:

So tell me, what do YOU know about the Federal Reserve System? Probably as much as you do about 'evolutionary psychology.' But you don't need to do any in depth reading on any subject. You have your 'experts' (who all too frequently disagree, btw) to tell you what to think. You just pick the one opinion which best agrees with your existing beliefs. All that aside, why do you have to attack this person Remy? Why not use a little of that analytical prowess and logic to talk rationally with him instead of calling him/her a ' motherfucker?' So ok, I'm stupid and probably crazy. We're all damaged goods, or haven't you noticed? I have my moments of lucidity and maybe this is one of them (just wait 'til the new moon, though.) I can clearly see that your 'tactics' with Remy are counter productive.

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Date: Wed, Mar 01, 2000 at 16:21:00 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: gerry Subject: And you're an all day sucker... Message:

Gerry, That shit about the Federal Reserve was pathetic. Doesn't deserve comment. That's all I'll say about it. You've obviously got a penchant for bad conspiracy thinking. Help yourself but you're not going to waste my time with that shit. And as I just said to Susan, anyone who can read the info here and still find the hamster a 'good speaker' who picks 'interesting topics' is an idiot.

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Date: Wed, Mar 01, 2000 at 16:43:51 (GMT) From: gerry Email: None To: Jim Subject: And you're an all day sucker... Message:

I agree he's a weird and disjointed speaker. But when you've been around fawning and 'blissful' premies who think he's wonderful, that sorta rubs off, remember? No, you attack was unwarranted and probably harmful. I mean, who needs to be called a 'motherfucker' on their first foray onto the forum? Little wonder if this person runs back to the 'warm and fuzziness' of premie land. And it will partly YOUR fault. We don't need to discuss the Fed here. It's obvious you are totally ignorant about the subject. But that's ok. Most people are. You should take your own advice and not go off half cocked on something about which you know nothing. Saying something is 'pathetic shit' doesn't prove or disprove anything. But it does work towards 'prejudicing the jury.'

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Date: Thurs, Mar 02, 2000 at 00:23:21 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: gerry Subject: Happy Clone? Message:

'I'll be an all-day sucker too' is a line from one of our band songs, Happy Clone. But that's not what you called about, is it? Gerry, I don't give a flying fuck about Remy's frotteuristic relationship with the cult. If he wants to do book reviews for Dianetics: The Guide to Freedom (or whatever it's called), he can do that too. Frankly, I thought the guy's post was stupid and I said so. Big deal.

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Date: Thurs, Mar 02, 2000 at 01:10:54 (GMT) From: gerry Email: None To: Jim Subject: Ok, I'll let you off the hook.. Message:

because I still like your sorry ass (not literally, of course,) but you didn't say 'stupid' even if you thought it. Perhaps you were tired, whatever. It was pretty lame and smacks of 'jumping the gun.' Don't pick up my bad habits, please. Stick to rational, logical. I'll handle the jou jou stuff. A point I would like to make is that because I mentioned SB's several psuedonyms, I somehow endangered her life. Clearly this wasn't the case and no harm came to her (KEEErist-talk about drama.) You tried to make it out that I deliberately tried to hurt this person. This just isn't so and again, no harm came to her because I mentioned that she was posting under several different aliases. Big deal, BFD. You say you talked to her, so I guess I'll have to concede she's legit. I don't understand how her writing can be crystal clear and even hip, subtle English one post and then broken the next, fucking up the very basic grammar rules like this: (from AG) 'Doesn't him look divine.' To me this looks like someone trying to fake it. I still wonder when I read something like that. PS I'll take back 'tattletail rat' if you'll take back 'stupid.' PPS Where the fuck is Roger? Hear from him?

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Date: Tues, Feb 29, 2000 at 20:48:55 (GMT) From: JW Email: None To: Remy Subject: Huh? Message:

The rich-boy is a good speaker? He picks interesting topics? Compared to what? What exactly do you feel you get/learn from those videos? I think most people would see them as not much more than repetitive, simplistic platitudes, and quite a bit more that is incoherent or contradictory. Remy, you really should get out more. There are organized things that actually benefit people, and then there are organized things like Maharaji's cult that exist for nothing more than to make the rich-boy richer. The cult prays on the insecurities, loneliness and sincerity of human beings, all for the enrichment and financial gain of one egomaniac. But good for you to also be reading this forum. Perhaps the fact that so many premies have rejected Maharaji as a cult-leader, many after having been his followers for many years, ought to make you think about the cult a little more objectively.

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Date: Tues, Feb 29, 2000 at 18:18:31 (GMT) From: AJW Email: None To: Remy Subject: Catching Cod. Message:

Hi Remy, I agree with lots of what you say. The first major sifting process is the one you pass through when you walk through the door for your first video. So you're already in the funnel Remy. If you don't mind, I wouldn't mind asking you a few questions. Did you read any of the 'Journies' on Ex-Premie.org There's a link at the top? If so, you may have read mine and will know my background in the cult. So, first question. What is your involvement so far? Have you been to introductory videos? Have you met an 'instructor' (what are they called nowadays?). What is the procedure for initiation and selection? I've heard that whole process is becoming more 'business like' with seminars and such stuff. What's your experience? You say that it's possible to be a member of a group like Elan Vital with 'discretion'. I think I know what you mean, but I disagree with you. At the heart of the cult, Maharaji is seen as the 'Living Perfect Master', and is considered to be the latest in a line that includes Jesus, Buddha, the Sikh gurus, Mohammed, and a few more besides. This is the basis of the cult. What happens around Maharaji personally, is a game where he is the Living Perfect Master, and we are his devotees serving and loving him. This is what defines the group you are thinking of joining. At some point, before you 'receive knowledge', you will be expected to understand that Maharaji is the one and only master who reveals the 'Truth', and there are no other masters but him. I don't think you'll be initiated if don't believe he's the one and only. Why don't you say to an instructor, 'I'm going from cult to cult, checking them all out, I'm down to 'G' for 'Gurus', how long will it take, because I'd like to get the Hare Krishna mantra after this one and compare them, and I'm booked in on a TM course next July.' Betcha they can't fit you in until you 'realise' the other ways are a waste of time, because THIS IS THE REAL ONE AND ONLY TRUTH. Anyway, I'm interested to hear what you think about all this stuff, and how far down the tunnel to Guruland you've gone. Anth the Wriggling Ragworm

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Date: Wed, Mar 01, 2000 at 16:12:47 (GMT) From: Jerry Email: None To: AJW Subject: Catching Cod. Message:

Why don't you say to an instructor, 'I'm going from cult to cult, checking them all out, I'm down to 'G' for 'Gurus', how long will it take, because I'd like to get the Hare Krishna mantra after this one and compare them, and I'm booked in on a TM course next July.' LOL. Thanks Anth.

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Date: Tues, Feb 29, 2000 at 18:30:07 (GMT) From: JB Email: None To: AJW Subject: Catching Cod. Message:

Anth, Excellent post - waiting for his/her reply. JB

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Date: Thurs, Mar 02, 2000 at 00:06:50 (GMT) From: Remy Email: None To: JB Subject: Catching Cod. Message:

Well, doesn't look like there's much for me to say. You guys seems to have covered it all. By the way, Jim, really man, don't hold back, tell me how you really feel. ;)

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Date: Tues, Feb 29, 2000 at 16:41:35 (GMT) From: Leaky Email: None To: AJW Subject: Another Gem from Anthony Message:

Definately another Best for Anth! Leaky ps my leak wasn't bad either - I'm hoping for a Best for that. What do you think Teach? I think m is looking for an excuse to retire. I wonder why he wants to retire so early?

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Date: Tues, Feb 29, 2000 at 18:23:36 (GMT) From: AJW Email: None To: Leaky Subject: The future revealed. Message:

Hi Leaky, Yeah, I think he's semi-retired already. There's lots of backlash going on against the cult at the moment, and people are definitely looking into stuff in different countries. Membership and involvement is dwindling in the West and even the old timers are getting disillusioned. It's like the little kid has already shouted, 'The Emporer is naked.' I reckon he'll be out of the Guru business completely by Christmas. He'll use his common sense, cut his losses and open up a garage selling second hand luxury cars somewhere. And you can quote me on that. Anthstrodamus.

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Date: Tues, Feb 29, 2000 at 14:39:28 (GMT) From: Marianne Email: None To: AJW Subject: Most special cod of all Message:

Of course, we were the most special cod of all because we recognized that M was the incarnation of God, walking on this Earth. He came to us and we recognized him, putting us a few notches above St. Peter in the Garden of Gesthemane (spelling there, Padre Michael). I find it very interesting that you have analogized the cult to EST. EST & Werner Erhard were based in San Francisco. There were some court cases involving EST, although my memory escapes me at this moment about the basis for the lawsuit or lawsuits. It just goes to show you that the cult is adapting to something like market research as it seeks out new ways to wrest money from premies and almost premies. How is everyone out there? Not much time for the site as I continue my sojourn in Ireland. It's glorious here. Love, Marianne

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Date: Tues, Feb 29, 2000 at 18:28:06 (GMT) From: AJW Email: None To: Marianne Subject: EST and Maharaji Message:

Hi Marianne, I don't really know what EST is. I've got the impression it's one of a family of 'cults' that have a kind of 'hype you up in a business seminar type of way'. Lots of people in suits going through all sorts of shit, with yelling from time to time. I don't know. What I was getting at, which is something Jean-Michel has picked up on, is that there's yet another new packaging coming along for 'knowledge' and 'Mahraraji' that seems 'business style', oriented, with 'seminars' and 'trainers' and stuff. Maybe Remy, (above) can help us out here. Take care, Anth (flowers in the hair next week).

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Date: Tues, Feb 29, 2000 at 14:39:17 (GMT) From: Hal Email: None To: AJW Subject: Excellent and accurate Anth! Message:

'a real page turner' Daily Mail. 'one of our greatest new talents' Teachers Union Journal. ' This madman is a traitor and our biggest pain in the neck' Elan Vital.

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Date: Tues, Feb 29, 2000 at 16:22:46 (GMT) From: gregg Email: None To: Anth and Marianne Subject: Cheers, Anth and Marianne Message:

Yep, Anth. Nice objective summary of the process. Of course, one can't be objective when caught in the net. Unlike the cod-in-the-sea, the aspirant sees not the net. I remember wanting to be part of the Enlightened Ones, the premies. I was elated to be accepted and initiated. Happy times! Although I am glad that when I got out, my brain was waiting for me in a jar. I was happy to be a devotee of The Master, but I am a thousand times happier to be whole, to just be. Gregg the Escaped Cod P.S. Hi, Marianne! Glad you're happy in Eire. My wife Paula has four trials today! And, as a public defender, she makes a lot less money than me, a mere public school teacher. It's criminal.

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Date: Tues, Feb 29, 2000 at 16:30:14 (GMT) From: Marianne Email: MarianneDB@aol.com To: gregg Subject: Hi Gregg and Paula - OT Message:

Gregg: Tell Paula I said hi and I wish her luck. When I was a federal public defender, I had multiple trials set for the same day all the time. Did she get much sleep last weekend? I think not! Nice to hear you, Gregg, as always. How's winter in the Rockies? Love, Marianne

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Date: Tues, Feb 29, 2000 at 18:54:31 (GMT) From: Way Email: None To: All Subject: With aspirants like Remy, Message:

no wonder Rawat says this is all heading toward a 'dire situation.' p.s. to Remy: with that attitude you ain't never gonna get Knowledge! You probably won't be seeing too many of those amusing videos anymore either.

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Date: Tues, Feb 29, 2000 at 18:53:23 (GMT) From: Gregg Email: None To: Marianne Subject: Springtime in the Rockies - OT Message:

Denver weather be th' bomb! See, I grew up in the Midwest (I know some people call Denver a Midwestern city, but never mind.) Midwest summer: hot and humid, sweating in your sheets at night Denver summer: hot and dry; cool evenings MW fall: nice, great tree colors D fall: glorious, OK colors MW winter: cold, grey, snowy, slushy, icy D winter : occasional cold spells, occasional snow which usually melts in a couple of days under the brilliant blue sky and springtime temperatures The springtime is better in the Midwest, though. Everything get gradually lusher and greener and it's just so sweet...whereas here in the High Desert, as our climate is known, it alternates between winter and summer for a while; then it's summer. March is the month with the huge snowstorms here. Tornados are rare here, hard by the Rockies, but twenty miles or so east, twisters become common. And then there's the weather in San Francisco...

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Date: Tues, Feb 29, 2000 at 06:51:42 (GMT) From: M's Manicurist Email: The Yacht To: Everyone Subject: Message in the Bottle Message:

'The speaker recently met with a small group of people and expressed that he was not prepared to move forward until he has a passionate and reliable vehicle to support him. He does not feel he has this at present and this is moving towards a very dire situation.' Note that PAMS are now called 'people' and the real premies (lovers) are still getting the blame. Premies have yet again been told to clean up their act and do it with the 'utmost seriousness.' Jai sat chit anand! Victory to the truth, pure conciousness and bliss!

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Date: Fri, Mar 03, 2000 at 21:51:23 (GMT) From: M's Manicurist Email: None To: Annie Subject: What it is here that you don't believe? Message:

Dear Annie, I know it tends to rain on your parade or burst your bubble but this is word for word what M said to a small group of followers. Why don't you believe it? Did you think the perfect master would never talk about 'dire consequences?' Are you one of these theetie-weetie goodness and lite types that think everything is coming up roses? This is work on this planet and this planet is full of darkness AND light. We really MUST pull our socks up. M's Manicurist

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Date: Thurs, Mar 02, 2000 at 05:32:02 (GMT) From: bb Email: None To: M's Manicurist Subject: 'utmost serousness' Message:

Well now, 'Dire' would equal what? Takeing commercial flights? Giving up the yacht? Skipping on the gambleing junkets? Cutting back on the purchases of watches? Shorter stays at the Betty Ford clinic for raja ji for his cocaine dry outs?

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Date: Tues, Feb 29, 2000 at 16:11:32 (GMT) From: JHB Email: None To: M's Manicurist Subject: Message in the Bottle Message:

Well, our predictions are coming true. He is now preparing his excuse for when he retires. Be prepared for lots of premies being left in the lurch with debts after he pulls the plug (unless PAMS can use their knowledge of his financial irregularities to get some money out of him). It would be good to get something big on him before he disappears. John.

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Date: Tues, Feb 29, 2000 at 15:44:23 (GMT) From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: M's Manicurist Subject: This Rawat's an interesting 'teacher' indeed! Message:

Here is a guy claiming he's a gooroo, and he just expressed that he was not prepared to move forward until he has a passionate and reliable vehicle to support him... !! He's supposedly been working on this and with his 'people around him', instructors, organizers, co-ordinators, contacts, premies, preparing his aspirants himself, having conferences and k reviews over and over again, etc for more than 25 years, and he can't move forward anymore! Wheteher he's a bad teacher, or he chose the wrong disciples, or this is just one more 'Lila' of his .... What's wrong Rawat? Only bongos around you? How come?

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Date: Tues, Feb 29, 2000 at 16:00:05 (GMT) From: Leaky Boat Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: This Rawat's an interesting 'teacher' indeed! Message:

I thought you'd like this one Jean! Leaky

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Date: Tues, Feb 29, 2000 at 16:15:31 (GMT) From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Leaky Boat Subject: I don't appreciate these poor guys being caught Message:

in one of his new loops. I hope this is going to open some premies' eyes .... He's already done this too many times !

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Date: Tues, Feb 29, 2000 at 09:07:09 (GMT) From: Sir Dave Email: david@xyzx.freeserve.co.uk To: M's Manicurist Subject: Message in the Bottle Message:

Moving towards a very dire situation is it? God, I am concerned. What about all those thousands of devotees he threw away in the eighties? Weren't they passionate and reliable enough? Silly me, I forgot. He is always perfect and not to blame for anything, while the blame lies squarely with those useless premies who are a waste of space, in his eyes. Look premies, you haven't done enough for him. I think it's time for heavy satsang; it's time for the Lord to start yelling at you again. You are not supporting him. You have not given him enough money to move forward. I mean, a private jet, yacht, countless luxury cars and houses are not enough for the Lord to even go a hundred yards! Can't you see that? You undevoted lot, you.

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Date: Tues, Feb 29, 2000 at 20:33:39 (GMT) From: Annie Email: None To: Dave, JHB, Jean-Michel Subject: Message in the Bottle Message:

Not that it'll necessarily change the way you boys 'do business,' I just thought I'd point out that you are doing once again what you've done many, many times. You've taken random 'information' from an anonymous source and started pontificating on it and analyzing it as if it were true. Do you really have any idea who you're talking to? Other than yourselves, that is. Something to consider, especially since you're in the midst of doing it again. It would seem that you're only interested in 'truth' as long as it might make Maharaji look bad. Any of you willing to be even a little bit honest about this?

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Date: Thurs, Mar 02, 2000 at 01:30:41 (GMT) From: Jerry Email: None To: Annie Subject: A challenge to Annie Message:

It would seem that you're only interested in 'truth' as long as it might make Maharaji look bad. Tell me some truth that makes Maharaji look good.

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Date: Thurs, Mar 02, 2000 at 09:46:52 (GMT) From: Annie Email: None To: Jerry Subject: An Answer for Jerry Message:

'Tell me some truth that makes Maharaji look good. ' Ok. He inspires, encourages and enlightens people of every possible variety. He teaches Buddhists, Jews, Muslims, Christians, Hindus, Rastafarians and agnostics. He teaches old, toothless Nepalese women, yuppie Italian investment bankers in Versace and 19 year-old, orange-haired neo-punks in Glasgow. They love him. Africans, South Americans, Aussie surfers, white-bearded heads of Vedanta societies, gay, straight, cabbies, composers, every economic level, any language, all levels of education and all ages. He teaches stone cynics and idealists, romantics and scientists, potheads, priests and Peruvian fishermen. They love him. And he's been doing it since he was 8. What exactly were you up to at 8? What exactly are you up to now, for that matter? He started teaching in 1 country when he was 8 and now, at 42, has people actively practicing Knowledge in over 80 countries. For every person here thumbing their nose and making loud, flatulent noises, there are many thousands of ALL of the above varieties of people who would say, 'Sorry mate, I beg to differ. Maharaji has introduced and nurtured a depth and fullness in my life that noone else I've ever encountered came even CLOSE to sparking off in me. Let alone repeatedly...and for decades. And I love him very much.' And they (and I) loved him with and without throne-like chairs, with and without ashrams, with and without Malas, with and without Arti, regardless of titles, definitions, jargon, trends and fashions. Not exactly a flash in the pan, is he? Here it is, 2000, and you're talking about him more than most people who consider themselves to be 'with' him. All of the above is true by any way of measuring. And in my estimation, it makes him look damn good. Check it again and find a factual error. Wishful thinking does not wash away the validity of other people's lives. You think he's a terrible guy? Fine. You think he's a lousy teacher? Fine. You believe Jesus, Buddha and Mohammed were fakes and con-men? Fine. I read that here. You believe Knowledge is snot? I read that here. Fine, you can save money on Kleenex now. You believe Bill Clinton is the anti-christ? Fine. I read that here. You believe that adolescent, catty gossip and random guessing defines who Maharaji is in any way? Dream on. It's sad to me that people who lived through similar events and happenings as me ended up with a bitter taste in their mouths. But that's part of life. It's just good to remember that, occasionally, in the other direction. The reality is that many, many people of a MUCH wider variety of circumstances, backgrounds and life experiences than those who post here had and have a completely different feeling about this subject than you do. Is that really SO hard to accept? Best wishes, Annie

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Date: Thurs, Mar 02, 2000 at 21:02:17 (GMT) From: Annie Email: None To: Susan Subject: What part would not apply to Moon Message:

The Jews, Muslims, Hindus & Rastafarians . The old, toothless Nepalese women, yuppie Italian investment bankers in Versace and 19year-old, orange-haired neo-punks in Glasgow. The Africans, Aussie surfers, white-bearded heads of Vedanta societies, potheads, and Peruvian fishermen. Teaching since 8. Knowledge. A practical, internal experience. As opposed to occasional, free packets of ginseng. No preaching of hate of any kind. Of course, you don't have your handy discounts on automatic weapons. Oh, and the potential savings on Kleenex.

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Date: Fri, Mar 03, 2000 at 01:17:06 (GMT) From: Susan Email: None To: Annie Subject: What part would not apply to Moon Message:

I should not have asked that question because I do not know enough details about Moon. But Annie, I am sure Moonies feel as spiritually superior to your cult as you do to theirs. Really the things you point to are sort of meaningless. Jim Jones has a broad multicultural following too. The eight year old stuff to me just means he was a child prodigy cult leader.

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Date: Thurs, Mar 02, 2000 at 18:50:07 (GMT) From: Susan Email: None To: Annie Subject: What part of that would not apply to Rev. Moon Message:

just as well Annie? At least if it were written by a moonie?

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Date: Thurs, Mar 02, 2000 at 19:04:04 (GMT) From: Susan Email: None To: Annie- he is the Doogie Subject: Houser of cult leaders? So he's gotta be real? nt Message:

nt

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Date: Thurs, Mar 02, 2000 at 19:05:14 (GMT) From: Doogie Houser Email: None To: Susan Subject: of cult leaders? So he's gotta be real? nt Message:

nt

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Date: Thurs, Mar 02, 2000 at 17:07:40 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: Annie Subject: So what, Annie? Message:

Annie, Trust you to find a way to skirt the issue. To blab on and on and on, a little cutesy-tutesy, but to really not say anything. After all, Annie, we already know he's got a following. Big fucking deal. The guy's a cult leader, after all. But if you really want to get into the numbers, do it right. Think of any US or Canadian city you lived in as a premie. Imagine you saw a list EV had of every last person that got 'initiated' since '71. Then tell me how many of those people you think still follow him? You know as well as I do that that number is simply dwarfed by the number of those who've walked away. No question about it. But that's not the end of the story. Because to do it right, I think, you have to really ask how many people are still taking the Guru Maharaj Ji Challenge. You know: 'Give me the reigns of your life, and I will give you peace'. That's where the real action is. Well the fact is, that games off world-wide. The whole thing's turned to mush even for the committed and, like I said, we both know they represent a tiny fraction of the total number infected. So what else can you tell us about Maharaji other than that he still has a cult following (for now, I mean)?

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Date: Thurs, Mar 02, 2000 at 12:56:25 (GMT) From: Jerry Email: None To: Annie Subject: A response for Annie Message:

Annie, I think most of the people Maharaji 'teaches' are middle aged, former hippies. Let's not exaggerate his reach here. OK? You make it seem as if he has every type of person flocking, in droves, to partake of his wisdom. It's not like that. Maybe in your head it's like that, but in reality, it's not. Don't be impressed by what Maharji was doing at 8. He should have been a normal little boy doing his chores and homework, having fun with his friends, instead of being placed on this pedestal that only could spoil him rotten, and which, apparently, did. 'Sorry mate, I beg to differ. Maharaji has introduced and nurtured a depth and fullness in my life that noone else I've ever encountered came even CLOSE to sparking off in me. Let alone repeatedly...and for decades. And I love him very much.' Why Maharaji? What is Maharaji doing that is so unique? Other 'masters' teach meditation and give speeches too. It has to be something about Maharaji, particularly, that has people preferring him over others. His charisma, perhaps? Loving someone because he has great charisma is not a good reason for loving him, especially not to the levels of devotion given Maharaji. That kind of love is rooted in fantasy. What do you really know about him, that you love him so much - I mean, in an up close and personal way? Here it is, 2000, and you're talking about him more than most people who consider themselves to be 'with' him. I'm talking about him because of the incredible impact he's had on my life, all negative. I'm finally given the chance to speak freely about my misgivings about him, about the doubts I was COMMANDED to bury. Remember that? Doesn't that mean something to you? You believe Knowledge is snot? I read that here. Fine, you can save money on Kleenex now. That was funny, Annie. I got a good chuckle out of that. Thanks.

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Date: Fri, Mar 03, 2000 at 07:33:04 (GMT) From: Annie Email: None To: Jerry Subject: A response for Annie Message:

Hi Jerry, A few responses. 'I think most of the people Maharaji 'teaches' are middle aged, former hippies.' That's true in a few, obvious countries (the ones in the West that M started in) and not at all true in many others. Most of the people writing HERE are middle-aged, former hippies. A group I generally enjoy, by the way. 'Let's not exaggerate his reach here. OK? You make it seem as if he has every type of person flocking, in droves, to partake of his wisdom. Not flocking in droves, that's true. But every conceivable type of person from every kind of background is absolutely true. Not anywhere as easy to pigeonhole as some folks here would like it to be. And they, and I, most definitely feel it is actual wisdom we're partaking of. 'Why Maharaji? What is Maharaji doing that is so unique? Other 'masters teach meditation and give speeches too. It has to be something about Maharaji, particularly, that has people preferring him over others. ' It is indeed something about Maharaji. To me, he's much more fun, his frame of reference is vastly larger and his presence is far more powerful than anyone I've encountered. It's not because he gives speeches or techniques. Others do the same. The best analogy I can think of at the moment would be, for some reason, sax players. All using the same instrument and same basic techniques. You could say that Kenny G and John Coltrane were doing the same thing. Superficially, they were. To me, they might as well have been playing music from different galaxies. The difference is in what is conveyed. It's not something that that can be easily quantified. They're both skilled, regardless of taste. Yet here you are, this week on this forum, discussing the fact that some people thought Coltrane was Christ re-incarnated or some such thing. The only time Christ is mentioned in regards to Kenny G, is more than likely, 'Christ, will you turn that sugary crap off!' 'Loving someone because he has great charisma is not a good reason for loving him, especially not to the levels of devotion given Maharaji. That kind of love is rooted in fantasy. What do you really know about him, that you love him so much - I mean, in an up close and personal way? Good question. And no, it's not just about charisma, though his is considerable. I know a lot about him and I've seen him both at a distance and up-close for decades. He doesn't feel like a distant, Oz-like figure to me at all. I know he gives an extraordinary amount to all those types of people mentioned previously. I know he's nothing like the guy talked about on this page who sounds imperious, uncaring, greedy and void of any redeeming qualities. Dispensing mucous at exorbitant prices for the purpose of gratifying himself with a new gold-plated oil tanker. He's shown me great, personal kindness and consideration. Most importantly, and I'm really not trying to make you ill here, when I'm around him (and this has been for many, many years) I become quite naturally magnetized into the best, warmest, highest, most loving, timeless and beautiful part of MYSELF. Wouldn't you love someone who brought that out in YOU? I have lots of longtime, close friends who I've spent far more time with...and in some ways I know him better...and I feel he knows me better than even some of my oldest pals. 'I'm talking about him because of the incredible impact he's had on my life, all negative. I'm finally given the chance to speak freely about my misgivings about him.' I'm sorry it was bad for you. Was it all negative at the time or just in retrospect? I know people who seemingly had one great experience after another with M and have now disavowed them and him completely. Just as one would do with an ex-boyfriend, etc. I'm not saying that's your case, I'm just curious. Speaking freely is definitely a good thing. It may surprise you to know that Maharaji clearly enjoys FAR more his interactions with those people who say what they really think to him and don't just try to butter him or act out some strange, consensus idea of how to 'be.' In any case, if you think he's worthless and a con, you SHOULD stay away from him. My 2 central points in my original post, which noone has yet answered, are: 1. Can you accept that other people, some of whom you might even love if you knew them (and some you have!), have an utterly different take on all this and they're still human beings, worthy of consideration and respect? and 2. 'Anything and Everything about Maharaji and his followers.' Yeah, right! How about All the News that Shits, we Print. Analyzing and pontificating on stuff that, most assuredly, is quite off-the-wall or, at BEST, wildly out of context as if it represented ANYTHING. Inexorably, building the analysis of this fake 'info' into an angry, frothing hatred, culminating in 'Let's get the bastard!' or something similar. This is, in fact, quite troubling, since a few of the people who post here are more than a bit unhinged (let's face it) and might be spurred to actual, real-world destructive activity. Or, is the only possible response, 'Boogy, boogy, boogy...cult, cult, cult?' or 'stupid asshole, fatguru, boogy, boogy, boogy...cult, cult, cult?' Kinda like 9 year-olds learning how to curse for the first time. People who 'communicate' like that have no clue how lame and undeveloped they seem. And yes, they'd be punched out in bars and fired from their jobs for treating other people the way that seems all too common here. ANY other people. I wrote back to you 'cause you sound like a nice guy and what you wrote was thoughtful and civilized. I'm glad you got a laugh. Laughter is priceless...far more valuable than endless debates. Have a great weekend, Jerry Annie

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Date: Fri, Mar 03, 2000 at 21:40:27 (GMT) From: M's Manicurist Email: None To: Annie Subject: A response for Annie Message:

Dear Annie, I noticed that you didn't believe M's quote from the boat was accurate. (See Message in the Bottle) So I guess you weren't one of the chosen few on the yacht then. Too bad you missed all that 'magnetism and premies/people actually being themselves.' He actually did say that you know - and the response from the pams has been as usual, pathetic. Something like 'swab the lower decks you usless morons.' You are lucky that you've never been in the usless moron position. M's Manicurist

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Date: Fri, Mar 03, 2000 at 16:57:26 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: Annie Subject: You're lying on that one, Annie Message:

Annie, You're pulling a fast one saying that you've known Maharaji at all up close. You weren't there and I know it. I know you. You were never a PAM in the slightest. You just have the rare privelege of having been married to a man who later had a long-term realtionship (does he still?) with Maharaji's mistress, Monica Lewis. But then that was after your time altogether, wasn't it? No, you've only known Maharaji from the trenches. Admit it.

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Date: Fri, Mar 03, 2000 at 19:57:44 (GMT) From: Annie Email: None To: Jim Subject: Once again, wrong Annie Message:

Sorry, dear honey-tongued Jim, once again you have the wrong Annie. My experience is most assuredly first-hand. See how easy it is to jump to the wrong conclusions? The other Annie

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Date: Fri, Mar 03, 2000 at 21:51:01 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: Annie Subject: Oh, a lesson! I just got a lesson! Message:

Holy moly, Annie, not only did I get the wrong Annie but I even got a spiritual teaching! Endless thanks. I'm humbled again. Hey, you ever hear the one about 'assume'? Like, it's really cool. Let me share it with you. Ready? (This is gonna knock your socks off): What do you do when you assume? (No one else say anything!) Annie? Can't guess? Humble? Ready for a teaching? Okay..... What do you get when you assume .... oh, sorry, that's not quite right. Let me start over. What do you DO when you assume? Still don't know? Okay, when you assume you make an ASS out of U and ME! Get it? Cool, huh? Okay, your turn. Teach me something.

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Date: Fri, Mar 03, 2000 at 20:20:25 (GMT) From: Susan Email: None To: Annie Subject: Annie.... Message:

Since you are an insider and you feel Rawat does not mind being questioned would you PLEASE question him about Jagdeo. Since the two people I told 'forgot' has he forgotten hearing about it as well? At this point has he done anything to stop him? This issue goes beyond ex -vs- premie, it is really important. I know both by logic and in my heart that Rawat was told about Jagdeo in the seventies. Please ask him why he let Jagdeo continue to be a mahatma and travel the world in his name. Susan I am very serious. If you are serious that Rawat can deal with confrontation PROVE it by doing this!

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Date: Fri, Mar 03, 2000 at 14:47:22 (GMT) From: Jerry Email: None To: Annie Subject: Boogy, boogy, boogy... Cult, cult, cult Message:

Was it all negative at the time or just in retrospect? Both. More so in retrospect because I understand better the mindlessness with which I pursued what Maharaji was offering. I didn't, nor was I encouraged to think critically for one thing. I now realize the value of that. I think the mind is something which should be trained and cultivated, not demonized and put on the shelf. I also now realize the value of having some scientific understanding of human nature. These are things which were never encouraged by Maharaji. In fact, I would say that he discouraged them. His whole philosophy is 'listen to your heart', 'what you are looking for is within you'. What is that supposed to mean? Have you ever heard him say 'think about it?' I don't think that's part of his vocabulary. He's just a broken recording of 'listen to your heart', 'what you are looking for is within you', 'listen to your heart', 'what you are looking for is within you', on and on and on. How many times can you listen to the same platitudes, no matter how sweet - Kenny G has nothing on M here - before you get sick of them? That works for you? It's simplistic and meaningless. And lets not even talk about Maharaji's addiction to singing his own praises. You know and I know that no satsang would be complete without Maharaji going off on a tear about the glory of you-know-who. I'm sorry, Annie. I just can't help but think that you can do better. You seem like an intelligent person. I don't know why or how Maharaji can thrill you to the extent you say he does. It may surprise you to know that Maharaji clearly enjoys FAR more his interactions with those people who say what they really think to him and don't just try to butter him or act out some strange, consensus idea of how to 'be.' That would surprise me, Annie. How do you know this to be the case? 1. Can you accept that other people, some of whom you might even love if you knew them (and some you have!), have an utterly different take on all this and they're still human beings, worthy of consideration and respect? Yeah. But I don't think those people are using their critical faculties to the extent that they should. I think if YOU think about Maharaji, and how he has deified himself, that you would find the courage to detach yourself from him, and find what your looking for elsewhere.

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Date: Fri, Mar 03, 2000 at 08:45:33 (GMT) From: An Occassional Observer Email: None To: Annie Subject: Annie, you must be kidding Message:

'It may surprise you to know that Maharaji clearly enjoys FAR more his interactions with those people who say what they really think to him and don't just try to butter him or act out some strange, consensus idea of how to 'be.'' That is true so long as they are totally devoted to him. Other wise you are really kidding yourself. Look up in the ex-premie archives about m's famous 'fuck you' video and then contact the former instructor and still devotee who originally told that story. He HATES anyone that disagree with him....after all He is always right isn't He?

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Date: Wed, Mar 01, 2000 at 21:03:22 (GMT) From: DOD Email: None To: Annie Subject: Message in the Bottle Message:

It doesn't take much to make Maharaji look bad, Annie. How many lies have you caught him in. 'Be a vegetarian. I have never told anyone to be a vegetarian. Eat the vegetarians. I am the Lord thy God. I am a Master. I am a human being. I am a simple man. DAH, DAH, DAH. What he forgets to tell us is that he's a lying, conniving, prey-on-your-fears, good-for-nothing charlatan with a rapidly-shrinking flock. Next, he'll be the mail-order MAHATMA from Dera Dung. Give your head a shake, Annie Bananie. His jargon just don't jive! BUNG HOLE SHRI, PHAT GURU'S FED, MAHARAJ KI JAI! Jai (I have) sat chit anand (sat in shit too long).

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Date: Wed, Mar 01, 2000 at 15:32:26 (GMT) From: Susan Email: None To: Annie Subject: Pot calling the kettle black! Message:

I think premies are FAR more likely to revise reality to make it conform to how they want to see Rawat than ex's are. Premies are willing to forgive and accept without question all manner of bizarre and unethical behavior on the part of the guru. He is held to no standard what soever because most premies believe it would be insulting to judge him in any way. Certainly we indulge in speculation about his motives and what goes on behind closed doors. Why? The doors are SLAMMED shut. There is no open access to information in your cult. I just do not get why any premie reads this anyway. Any premie who claims to have no doubts about the validity of the trip. Why waste your time with us when you could be remembering the Holy Name? Or am I showing my ignorance by using that term....has the holy name become a new buzzword too? Was that accepted without question by the masses of premies? Listen, we are just a bunch of fools who never understood what knowledge was anyway. We never appreciated it or came from our hearts. We ignore our hearts and listen to our minds. Annie, please insert the new buzzword for mind here as I do not recall what it is now. I want you to be able to understand me. Leave us alone ot wallow in our misery and incompleteness. Let us go on not enjoying our lives fully. When you have so much in life to enjoy, that experience that the Lard has given you. Annie, you are in a cult. You are only reading this because some part of you KNOWS it. It is a F****** cult just like all the others, no better no worse. You are indictrinated. You say the same things I would have when I was a premie. The VERY same things. I believed in the trip so deeply I practically betrayed in some way almost every human I really loved to maintain my belief in the Lard untainted. I am angry at the guru for not setting you guys free.

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Date: Wed, Mar 01, 2000 at 16:11:56 (GMT) From: Hal Email: None To: Susan Subject: Right on Susan-tell it like it is!n.t. Message:

nt

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Date: Wed, Mar 01, 2000 at 14:18:06 (GMT) From: Sir Dave Email: david@xyzx.freeserve.co.uk To: Annie Subject: Message in the Bottle Message:

Annie very sternly chastised us saying: 'Do you really have any idea who you're talking to?' Yes Annie. We're talking to anyone who'll listen. Twenty years ago I wouldn't have written such things about Maharaji. I seem to have had a change of heart. Have you ever stopped to wonder why?

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Date: Wed, Mar 01, 2000 at 11:02:26 (GMT) From: AJW Email: None To: Annie Subject: Question for Annie. Message:

Hi Annie, I've a question for you. Do you believe Maharaji is the 'Living Perfect Master', embodiment of truth and knowledge, source of love and wisdom, the Creator in Human form, walking around the planet for our benefit, to show us the light and give us peace and wisdom? Anth the Businessman.

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Date: Wed, Mar 01, 2000 at 04:49:39 (GMT) From: M's Manicurist Email: None To: Annie Subject: Message in the Bottle Message:

Dear Annie, It might not be what you want to hear but this is right out of the Captain's mouth. He also asked you premies to undertake a 'severe and sincere cleanup' and do it with the 'utmost seriousness' or else expect some 'dire' consequences. So good luck, Annie I hope things work out well for you. Sorry you had to find this out from the ex-forum but it's the only place premies can sincerely communicate. I guess he can't take responsibility for not doing very well in spreading his father's message due to his extravagance and he's got to blame someone ie the premies. Have you noticed when people do wrong they tend to lash out on those they have wronged. I suppose that goes for the exes as well! Love, M's Manicurist

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Date: Thurs, Mar 02, 2000 at 05:39:06 (GMT) From: bb Email: None To: M's Manicurist Subject: Lord in the Bottle Message:

Thank you M's Manicurist. Your speaking up helps even those who are exes.

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Date: Wed, Mar 01, 2000 at 14:12:59 (GMT) From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: M's Manicurist Subject: Al Capone's input: 'severe and sincere cleanup' !! Message:

What does this mean ? Threats ? Marianne ?

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Date: Wed, Mar 01, 2000 at 17:33:27 (GMT) From: Joey Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: Al Capone's input: 'severe and sincere cleanup' !! Message:

Yup. Good question JM. I wonder what the test of sincerity (emphasis my own) will be all about?

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Date: Thurs, Mar 02, 2000 at 06:48:36 (GMT) From: Jethro Email: None To: Joey Subject: Here is the sincerity test Message:

Hi Joey 'I wonder what the test of sincerity (emphasis my own) will be all about? ' Here's a short crapsang that I, as a sincere devotee used to tell to demostarte how a premie's attitude should be towards the TryeLord. One day Hanji was talking to a premie and kept on telling the premie to take a step back until the premie was backed against a wall. Hanji then said again 'It is my agya that you take a step bakwards' to which the premie answered 'I can't Lord, my back is against a wall'. Hansji said 'Well you could have at least tried'. Regards Jethro

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Date: Wed, Mar 01, 2000 at 03:39:15 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: Annie Subject: You have no moral authority here, Annie Message:

Maharaji divulges absolutely no true information about anything. We don't know: 1) Who he thinks he is 2) Who he thinks his brother is 3) The true story of his father's life and death 4) How Maharaji spends the money premies give him 5) How much money premies give him 6) How much personal benefit his gets from EV money 7) How much money EV gets and has 8) Has Maharaji ever been in counselling and, if so, why and for how long? 9) Does he have an alcohol problem? If so, for how long? How about drugs? and on and on and on ...... So, naturally, we're left trying to piece together the puzzle from the sources we do get. Not all of it's true, of course. There's the regular mix of rumour and speculation. For example, does Maharaji really have a mistress by the name of Monica Lewis? Did he ever? For all I know, he did but broke up with her three years ago. Or maybe not. Who knows? But what is clear is that Maharaji's absolutely frightened that the true facts of his life will ever see the light of day. As he said in India last year, criticism is best ignored. I take it that applies to hard questions as well. But we former followers have certain rights. We're not arms-length strangers to Maharaji. He made us certain promises and exacted substantial comittments and resources from us. He owes us an accounting. He owes us the truth. We're entitled to the facts. So anyone who wants to complain that we're not addressing the whole story misses the point. That criticism can only properly be levied at Maharaji himself. For until he gives us the facts (ha ha ha) he alone is responsible for any innacuracies on our part. We're sincere. We're doing what we can to understand. If he's going to stonewall us he's responsible for any confusion on our part. End of story.

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Date: Wed, Mar 01, 2000 at 15:39:51 (GMT) From: Susan Email: None To: Jim Subject: well said Jim! (nt) Message:

nt

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Date: Tues, Feb 29, 2000 at 17:05:05 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: Sir Dave Subject: Excuse me, did I miss something? Message:

Where's this from?

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Date: Tues, Feb 29, 2000 at 18:49:25 (GMT) From: Sir Dave Email: None To: Jim Subject: Excuse me, did I miss something? Message:

Dunno where it's from. But after re-reading it, I've remembered that there's a shop in the Kings Road, Chelsea who make supports and trusses, made to to measure. Perhaps Maharaji could go there.

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Date: Tues, Feb 29, 2000 at 07:41:46 (GMT) From: joan apter Email: None To: M's Manicurist Subject: Message in the Bottle Message:

Coming lord! We are there heart mind body and soul like you told us!

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Date: Tues, Feb 29, 2000 at 07:26:04 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: M's Manicurist Subject: Where's THAT come from? Message:

That's quite a 'memo'. Where's it from?

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Date: Wed, Mar 01, 2000 at 05:22:54 (GMT) From: Sir Dave Email: None To: Jim Subject: Oh no! This is terrifying!!! Message:

I've just realised what those dire consequences are going to be. Maharaji is going to destroy the whole Universe!!! It will be the big crunch. He's gonna wipe out everything he's created. He's gonna completely demolish his creation. Noah's Ark will be like nothing compared to this. Look, this is getting serious. We might have fun taking the piss out of the Lord of the Universe but I think we may have gone too far and this is not a joke any more. Look Jim, what can we do to stop him? Do you think if we all emailed Maharaji and told him that we were going to start praising his magnificent mastership and start participating again - do you think we could change his mind and stop him from obliterating the whole Universe??? Or like he once said - is it really too late?

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Date: Thurs, Mar 02, 2000 at 06:40:36 (GMT) From: Jethro Email: None To: Sir Dave Subject: Oh no! This is terrifying!!! Message:

Dave, Remember when he said that if He wanted to he could unzip the sky and poke his head out and shout at people.....or he could make the un-premies float 6 feet above the ground so everyone couild know who they were(something like that). And of course He is alway right He can't help it.

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Date: Thurs, Mar 02, 2000 at 11:15:30 (GMT) From: Sir Dave Email: None To: Jethro Subject: Oh no! This is terrifying!!! Message:

He said he'd make them turn blue and float three feet off the ground. I'd forgotten about that unzipping the sky quote. Hee hee hee, doesn't Maharaji realise that he's giving everyone the perfect material to take the piss out of him good and proper. Now it's 'passionate vehicles' and 'dire' whatever. I think he needs a new scriptwriter.

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Date: Tues, Feb 29, 2000 at 06:41:49 (GMT) From: bb Email: None To: Everyone Subject: street update 2 (ot) Message:

Shouldnt be titled that but this is the follow up to a oct post. In Sept 99, 15 european central banks includeing England made a dramatic move by announceing that they would no longer lease gold for 5 years. This subject could take hours of typeing and reading to tell, But the nutshell is that the us dollar is the reserve currency and it gives the US many advantages. The English and the IMF and the US are basically on the same team and the Euro and the BIS and the Yen are on another. The titanic struggle between central banks and governments for power and control came out in the open by that gold leaseing issue. Also on the dollars side is the oil shieks because the US is thier military and that settles that. The israelis get 3 billion a year (at least) from the US and so many of the Jewish men strewn throughout the world financial community (europe included) arent about to want the french and germans (euro) to be the reserve currency while the dollar withers away as a result. Leaveing israel without 3 bil plus military help from the US. The Japanese publically voiced in 99 thier complaints about the dollar and thier predicament and how they would like the yen to be the reserve currency of asia. The gold play by the 14 central banks (england had to go along since the 14 were going to do that), was a bid to free gold from the manipulated priceing because that would give the euro a chance to have a way to end up being the reserve currency (over time). Apparently the US has been playing this chess game for a long time and by design and accident, has the yen and the euro in a stuck situation in many ways. The world eats 25 billion dollars a month we send them for thier products and the central banks HAVE to accept in order to keep thier own holdings at a good value level. The big threat to the dollar was china till the US managed to get them to agree to a dollar recycleing program like the other countries. The US can play hard ball apparently. Since the rift in sept, the euro boys and the BIS (bank of international settlements-switzerland) has stressed 'stability' and the Central banks of the euro have supported the gold leaseing game again or at least helped support the effort to keep gold under $300 and ounce. At least until the derivitive markets can unwind thier positions, which will take years. It looks like the US has won that skirmish and yet it shows that the price of gold and silver (at least) are price controlled. So that it cannot rival the Fiat currency. But, as part of the power play, the euro CLAIMS that (someday) they will back the euro 1/5th with gold. That someday will have to wait, right now the dollar rules and that is that. This is a shortened version, but I posted in oct during the midst of the struggle or (action) and it was so shocking in it's threat and since they werent talking, there was no wayto know that they would back off or that saddam orthe iranians wouldnt get wind of the vulnerability and pump billions into the gold leasing gap and deal a severe blow to the financial underpinnings of the dollar. The chess players wont talk, so who knows what else is the reasoning, but this is some of it. Bottom line, we could have 2 more years of this economy. Beyond that is too far to guess. Since gold and y2k are not a threat, the most eerie man made threat is the situation with derivitive debt. When Korea needed to reschedule it's debt, Rubin could call some bankers and get an agreement. Not with derivitives. The next country to wobble at the brink will most likely crater like a black hole because derivitives spread the debt around so much that no one can call a meeting of the debt owners. It is nice to make a journal and say 'life is groovy aint it', and, sure, but life is also vulnerable to a lot of factors that affect that 'groovy' view. One of those factors, is the big boys as they play with money, and they arent immune to murphys law. So, buy a little gold while it's cheap, just in case, if you can,With part of your savings. The rest invest like everyone else.

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Date: Tues, Feb 29, 2000 at 07:24:51 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: bb Subject: Bill, weren't you one of the y2k guys? Message:

Bill, I'd have thought you'd be a bit chary about playing Chicken Little again. And where's RT these days?

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Date: Tues, Feb 29, 2000 at 16:14:42 (GMT) From: gerry Email: None To: Jim Subject: read this; what do you think? Message:

THE FEDERAL RESERVE The Ultimate Con-Currency        The Federal Reserve is neither Federal nor a Reserve.  It is a private Cashist Cartel.  It is totally owned and totally controlled by the International Banksters.  The Fed creates “currency” out of thin air and then loans it back to you, through the Federal Government, at “interest” for the life of each note.  It buys these notes which you call dollars for the cost of printing and paper.  That’s about 2 cents for a one, a fifty or a one hundred dollar bill.  It doesn’t matter the price is always the same.  For them, the price is about 2 cents per note regardless of the denomination.  And that’s a hefty profit.  It costs us face value plus interest for the life of the note.  A “Note,” by the way is an obligation to pay.  And who do you pay?  The Federal Reserve one way or another gets theirs.  And you, one way or another gets screwed.  That’s the size of it.       The Federal Reserve got all of our gold – “ALL OF IT.”  In return we got all of their 'Paper.”  Where did all of our gold go? The largest of stash of gold lays in the huge vaults deep beneath the Federal Reserve Bank in New York City.  Don’t go thinking it’s at Fort Knox.  It’s not.  The Fed got the gold - we got the shaft.  The dollar is backed by nothing but hot air and handclasps.  It’s he who owns the gold that makes the rule.  Old man Rothschild realized that.  It was Amschel Meyer Rothschild who said “I care not who makes a nation’s laws as long as I make its currency.       Most people have no conception of what the Fed is all about, who runs it, or who owns it.  Sure, it regulates the economy.  It can and does create depressions and inflation.  It causes war and starvation, bankruptcies, and it can engineer a total collapse of an economy if and when it so desires.  It’s all up to the controllers of the Cashist Cartel, who own it lock, stock and barrel.  How about the private sector?  Who owns the big banks and major corporations?  How about those multi-billion-dollar mergers that are taking place throughout the country almost every week now?  Is it an effort to consolidate all of the major corporations into the same Financial Family?  You guessed it.       The Fed isn’t controlled by the Congress.  The Congress is controlled by the Fed.  How can we end that control?  How can we change it?  To take the United States back from the Banksters, the Federal Reserve must be abolished... and the assets of its stockholders FROZEN AND CONFISCATED then returned to the people.  This should finance the Government for ten years without the people paying so much as a dime in taxes.       Our national debt is owed to the international Banksters.  It must be repudiated.  Given the criminality of the Fed’s Class A stockholders, I don’t believe that they should be paid for having plundered the planet and its people by way of a buy-back.  The nationalization of the Fed will be easy once public support for a debt-free currency is popularized.  That popularization can only come through us by demanding restoration and a righting of the wrongs.       There is no question that the Feds Fiat “Funny Money” is loaned to us as “our currency.”  We get the debt, they get the interest.  They get the gold - we get the shaft.  It’s the biggest Con (currency) Game in the world.       Are we being screwed?  Yes, and it bears repeating over and over until everybody understands.  The taxes we pay are primarily to pay the interest on the National Debt to the International Banksters.  That’s the size of it.  If you created so-called “Government Currency” and lent it or spent it into circulation you’d go to jail.  But for them it’s legal.       The Feds control the prime rate.  They can trash, build, or bust the economy at will.  In short, they can do what they damn well please.  This must come to an end.  Face it, it’s them or us.  The Fed must be destroyed and buried with a wooden stake jammed in its vampirian, heart never to rise again.  The Fed is a blood sucker, with its fangs sunken deep in our economic throat.  It has an insatiable appetite.  It sucks our liberty and the life force from our hand.  A Constitutional Amendment needs to be passed that will insure that U.S. currency will always be printed and issued by the United States Government - not a foreign banking cartel.  If we fail as a nation to pass such legislation within the next four to five years, there will be no nation called the United States.       U.S. currency must be created by the United States Government.  If U.S. currency is loaned into circulation at interest, the interest will pay for all of the services necessary to maintain and sustain a limited Government.  But what about all the Government services, “The Socialism” theta SOLD by these blood suckers… is something free for the people.  One thing you can be sure of it’s not free.  Why would the super rich, like the Rockefellers, Rothschilds, Harrimans and Kennedys be offering something for the super poor?  It’s all so simple.  That’s how they control the country and insure that they stay in “positions of power.”  The humongous growth in Government has been due to the Banksters promotion of a Welfare State.  Those who become dependent on Government Welfare will vote for those that promise to retain Government Welfare.  In short, “Socialism.”  And that’s exactly what the Feds wants - dependence and interdependence, not independence and sovereignty.  One is right, the other is wrong.        So figure it out.  What the Government gives, it must first take away.  What it takes away, it must do so with force or threat of force, violence or threat of violence through incarceration or threat of incarceration.  This intimidation of people must come to an end, not only here in the United States, but throughout the entire world.       The Alliance supports the abolition of the Federal Reserve.  We support the creation of free and sovereign nations.  We are calling for an end to all debt-bearing currencies that are issued by private banks and loaned into circulation, which results in the economic enslavement of a nation’s people.  Free people living in free nations require debt-free currencies or paper currencies that draw interest to pay for Governments services.       Who elected the Federal Reserve?  Who gave them the right to make air money?  Congress was conned in 1913 by the Banksters Boys who met three years earlier at Jekyll Island, Georgia, to set up the “Enslavement System.”  Since then it has never been changed.  The “chains” about our economy have never been released.  The Money Monarchy has always been able to get “their man” appointed to the position of power.       Alan Greenspan, the Federal Reserve Chairman, wasn’t elected.  He was selected by the  “Banksters Boys,” Bill and George.  He, and not the President, is the most powerful man in the United States.  Presidents are expendable to the Fed.  They are mere pawns in the game of International Chess.  If it suits the Illuminati Elite, they will assassinate the President or any politician that threatens their authority.  They killed the Kennedys.  And “their people” killed Martin Luther King to make him a martyr.  They turn lemons into lemonade.          The fact is we can never end the problems, plagues, and prostitution of the United States until the Fed is dead and buried.  We, at the Free World Alliance, invite you to submit your articles, your critiques and commentary about this monster amongst our midst.      “THE FEDERAL RESERVE IS A GREATER THREAT TO THE SOVEREIGNTY OF THE UNITED STATES AND THE INDEPENDENCE, HEALTH AND WELFARE OF ITS PEOPLE THAN ALL OF THE STANDING ARMIES OF THE WORLD.”    Anthony J. Hilder

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Date: Wed, Mar 01, 2000 at 15:24:27 (GMT) From: Michael Email: None To: gerry Subject: read this; what do you think? Message:

I was worried that he wouldn't get the Illuminati reference in there! Thank God he had room at the end. Personally, I really tire of these 'Banker Conspiracy' thangs. Did I miss a reference to the Jews int there? This is the same old stuff, right up there with the Protocols of the Elders of Zion.

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Date: Wed, Mar 01, 2000 at 16:31:58 (GMT) From: gerry Email: None To: Michael Subject: read this; what do you think? Message:

Is this Mickey? I get confused with all the Mike's. I missed the Jewish International conspiracy thing myself. Can you point it out? Oh it's not there. Then perhaps your comparison to the 'Protocols of Zion' is a little off base and inflammatory? And are you saying there is no such thing as 'Illuminati?' Ok we're past that. Now tell me, what are the factual errors in this article? And what is your familiarity with the banking system and the Fed or are you just blowing smoke? You know, it would go a long way in establishing 'the kingdom of heaven on earth' if there was a little economic justice in the world. And dismantling the Fed would be a huge step in that direction.

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Date: Wed, Mar 01, 2000 at 23:19:02 (GMT) From: Michael Email: None To: gerry Subject: read this; what do you think? Message:

Yeah, I know what you mean about the confusion; just too many people named Michael around here. Yes, it is I, Mickey the Pharisee. As far as the International Jewish Conspiracy thing, I find these rants to be the same; substitute 'Jews' for 'The Fed' and we have the same old tune. Was I being inflammatory? Well, perhaps I was, we all have those days, don't we? What is my familiarity with the Banking system? All I know is that I can't get any Banks in the EEUU to accept cheques drawn on my account here at Chase Manhattan in Panamá, but I'm not sure that it is part of any conspiracy. We have LOTS of banks in Panamá, some probably just to launder money for narco-trafficers. Economic justice is part of the Reign of God or Kingdom of Heaven, as is all justice and rightousness. Will dismantling the Fed bring this about? I don't know, but gerry, that guy's rant sounded so much like the stuff one reads from the Militia folks and other 'interesting, patriotic' groups. I am not a nationalist, and I am not a subscriber to conspiracy theories. The Illuminati? Puhleeze! Hey gerry, it is good to hear from you, though, and even though I disagree with you on this subject, and, while it is true that I am definitly not an expert on this banking stuff, I think you are an alright guy. Padre Miguel

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Date: Thurs, Mar 02, 2000 at 02:55:57 (GMT) From: gerry Email: glyng@techline.com To: Michael Subject: read this; what do you think? Message:

Hi Michael, Panama is a huge tax 'heaven' for offshore corp shells and of course, narco money laundering. Huge. Padre, this doesn't make any sense: substitute 'Jews' for 'The Fed' The guy's rant is factually correct. The ' Illuminati' is something I have to learn more about, but here's what my big Webster's says: 'the members of an anticlerical, deistic republican society founded by Adam Weishaupt in Bavaria in 1776. Also called the 'Order of the Illuminati.'

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Date: Thurs, Mar 02, 2000 at 21:09:21 (GMT) From: cq Email: None To: gerry Subject: read this; what do you think? Message:

Gerry, Illuminati link here should it interest you.

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Date: Thurs, Mar 02, 2000 at 21:24:25 (GMT) From: cq(g) Email: None To: gerry Subject: read this; what do you think? Message:

... for those of us (Brits mainly) who have to pay by the minute to view internet links - here is a portion of the text from the link given above: Ideal of a Freemason If you see a man who quietly and modestly moves in the sphere of his life; who, without blemish, fulfils his duty as a man, a subject, a husband and a father; who is pious without hypocrisy, benevolent without ostentation, and aids his fellowman without self-interest; whose heart beats warm for friendship, whose serene mind is open for licensed pleasures, who in vicissitudes does not despair, nor in fortune will be presumptuous, and who will be resolute in the hour of danger; The man who is free from superstition and free from infidelity; who in nature sees the finger of the Eternal Master; who feels and adores the higher destination of man; to whom faith, hope and charity are not mere words without any meaning; to whom property, nay even life, is not too dear for the protection of innocence and virtue, AND FOR THE DEFENSE OF TRUTH; The man who towards himself is a severe judge, but who is tolerant with the debilities of his neighbour; who endeavours to oppose errors without arrogance, and to promote intelligence without impatience; who properly understands how to estimate and employ his means; WHO HONOURS VIRTUE THOUGH IT MAY BE IN THE MOST HUMBLE GARMENT, and who does not favour vice though it be clad in purple; and WHO ADMINISTERS JUSTICE (who????) to merit whether dwelling in palaces or cottages. The man who, without courting applause, is loved by all noble-minded men, respected by his superiors and revered by his subordinates; the man who never proclaims what he has done, can do, or will do, but where need is will lay hold with dispassionate courage, circumspect resolution, indefatigable exertion and a rare power of mind, and who will not cease until he has accomplished his work, and then, without pretension, will retire into the multitude because he did the good act, not for himself, but for the cause of good! If you, my Brethren meet such a man, you will see the personification of brotherly love, relief and truth; and you will have found the ideal of a Freemason.

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Date: Tues, Feb 29, 2000 at 18:28:03 (GMT) From: bb Email: None To: gerry Subject: read this; what do you think? Message:

Hi Gerry, Andy Hilder is on his way to a financial education but needs to be open to learning more and allow for alterations of all his ideas. He sounds too convinced and 'on a mission' to have a real shot at actual understanding. For a top notch education, contrarian views are necessary and Hilder should spend some time reading twice a week, thursdays and saturdays, the twice weekly financial commentary at prudentbear.com and contraryinvestor.com But like religion, you have to eye your sources and just take the gist and back away because finding nonslanted info is hard. Pieces are gotten from dif sources and then you can sift it out. For gold info, USAgold.com forum is good but again, the religious zealot issue there as well. And they also sound so convincing and have it all locked up. So you can be sure that they have it somewhat ontarget but wishful thinking is there also. It IS about money, so the amount of games and spin and deception and hidden agendas is well, complete! It is just about ALL tainted with spin of some sort. I tried hard to include none in the above post. It is all manipulating perceptions so it really is like the religious morass. I went to a breakfast at a restaurant this morning after having been invited numerous times by these 3 guys, religious guys. After 1/4 of a someones birthday muffin, and coffee, I walked away from 3 guys with widely scattered views on god. Normal Everyone has slants. Not allowed in the lords sunny kingdom of course! Not one thought! Thoughtless servants eliminate that that pesky difference problem. bhole shri

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Date: Tues, Feb 29, 2000 at 07:35:12 (GMT) From: beeb Email: None To: Jim Subject: Need food? just go to the wine cellar! Message:

Well, Jimmy The big boys were of the belief that at least 1% of the imbedded chips were going to go down which would have been a disaster. Luckily, that wasnt the case. Here in hartford, the Gov met twice daily with about 30 of the main directors of all the state agencies preping because that is what they thought they needed to do. Of course I wish I never heard of it. But, if inflation kicks in because of gas prices.... I have last years prices downstairs! RT is one handsome guy so I imagine that some willing lady is soothing his y2k worries.

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Date: Tues, Feb 29, 2000 at 07:50:13 (GMT) From: bee bee Email: None To: beeb Subject: or the store Message:

not chicken little Jimmy, 2 years is very good news. Two years of this continued economy. This credit bubbled boom that helps so many but is spooky in some ways.

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Date: Tues, Feb 29, 2000 at 07:23:26 (GMT) From: er guhi,rfwcn Email: None To: bb Subject: wearing the crown on pot Message:

I'm not but imagine the poor guru at home, closeing the drawer as I put away the watch in it's place along with the other 400 or so, I walk past the crystal display and go over to the Liqour cabinet, ahhhhhh, nice, now the music, now, the remote controls so that as I walk down the hall to the the hidden closet where the crowns and malas are, the music is there also. Opening the Hidden room, I am in a special place where I can wear the crown in a chair and watch old videos and dance to my hearts content. The ventilation ducts, worked on by Tom Kelley and Glenn Moulton, are taking the smell of pot and insenseaway as I dream of glory and my continued mission. Opposition, well, even mom was sucked into that, but my manifest destiny is calling and I am into it. If I dont believe I am lord, no one will. I do believe,I do believe,I do believe, If I....were king.....of the universe..... not raja, not bhagwan, but lord..... If I only had a heart...... I am the lord of creation.....the wonderful lord of the universe............because because because because because...... because thats what everyone said I was da da da da da da da da da da. Its all illusion so what do I care, a cowardly lion or a cowardly bear, I work for the devotees and they want me there, on sattelite and flying here and there, they like to see that more devotees like me, and that I can still attract them and they will pay thier share, and that soon the old glory days will reappear, and I can do it all again more clear, and then the world will catch a view, and know that after all, it's true, that I am the one, the only the lord, and that soon again arti will be heard, in halls across the USA and the bucks will really start to flow back my way!

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Date: Tues, Feb 29, 2000 at 05:38:25 (GMT) From: Get the tomatoes ready! Email: None To: Everyone Subject: he hopes for US knowledge review sessions Message:

There is one more Knowledge session scheduled, to be followed by four Knowledge review sessions. The review sessions are offered as a support for those who already have the techniques of Knowledge. I periodically make such events available to those who, for whatever reason, would like a review and perhaps to renew their efforts to enjoy this life to its fullest extent. Hopefully, this year similar events can happen in the US and Europe as well. With warmest regards, Maharaji. Hopefully. Just keep your hopes because the US is shrinking day by day Rawat. Scram.

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Date: Wed, Mar 01, 2000 at 16:57:55 (GMT) From: Djuro Email: None To: Get the tomatoes ready! Subject: he hopes for US knowledge review sessions Message:

What are your hopes?

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Date: Tues, Feb 29, 2000 at 19:21:51 (GMT) From: BTW Email: None To: Get the tomatoes ready! Subject: US knowledge review sessions:Comes from his siteNT Message:

nt

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Date: Tues, Feb 29, 2000 at 12:10:36 (GMT) From: Wordsworth Email: None To: Get the tomatoes ready! Subject: he hopes for US knowledge review sessions Message:

As somebody who received knowledge many years ago and found it to be pretty effective, i'm astonished at the level of vitriol aimed at Maharaji.....is there something i'm missing here ?!!

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Date: Wed, Mar 01, 2000 at 03:57:45 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: Wordsworth Subject: Effective at WHAT? Message:

Effective at obliterating your illusory self on the altar of devotion to the Lord incarnate so that you could pass over the mortal river of life and death, transcend your karma and realize true God consciousness? Or maybe you mean effective in bringing together all the peoples of the world under one beatific, glorious regime of Heaven on earth? Or maybe you're talking about instilling in you a peace that just gets better and better and better all the time! A love so amazingly rich it makes all other human experience not just pale but virtually blanch in comparison? Effective at what, dude?

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Date: Tues, Feb 29, 2000 at 20:57:26 (GMT) From: JW Email: None To: Wordsworth Subject: Haven't You Noticed? Message:

Hey Wordsworth, I don't think meditation is a problem. Some people find it 'effective' and some don't. That isn't the problem. But haven't you noticed that around Maharaji has arisen a large, personality cult, that has absolutely nothing to do with meditation? And have you also noticed that in this process Maharaji has become fabulously, obscenely wealthy? Did you also notice that thousands of people trashed their families, careers, sex lives, and lots of other stuff to dedicate their lives to Maharaji because he claimed to be the incarnation of god on earth, but has since tried to downplay that and pretend it never happened? Did you miss all that? Doesn't that cause you any concern?

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Date: Wed, Mar 01, 2000 at 17:32:50 (GMT) From: Djuro Email: None To: JW Subject: Haven't You Noticed? Message:

Maybe Maharaji is realy incarnacion of God. How can you be sure He is not?

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Date: Thurs, Mar 02, 2000 at 20:41:20 (GMT) From: cqg Email: None To: Djuro Subject: noticed? Message:

noticed? OK, Djuro, he is an incarnation of 'GOD' - just like the rest of us. AND ... divinity means ... what? We all came from the same origin (if you don't believe me, ask an astronomer). A real guide is one who shows you how to be free. & the Maha has (innumerable) strings attaching you to him.

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Date: Wed, Mar 01, 2000 at 21:32:25 (GMT) From: Jerry Email: None To: Djuro Subject: Haven't You Noticed? Message:

Maybe Maharaji is realy incarnacion of God. How can you be sure He is not? Djuro, baby, there's this way of thinking about things. It's called critical thinking. Maybe you should learn more about it. It helps to keep things in perspective. Click here if you'd like to learn how to think.

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Date: Wed, Mar 01, 2000 at 18:14:44 (GMT) From: JW Email: None To: Djuro Subject: Haven't You Noticed? Message:

Djuro, honey, I think the burden of proof is on the one who makes the claim, however, as I mentioned, apparently Maharaji used to be god, but isn't anymore. I think he stopped being god around 1985.

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Date: Tues, Feb 29, 2000 at 18:32:44 (GMT) From: JB Email: None To: Wordsworth Subject: he hopes for US knowledge review sessions Message:

Wordsworth, It's questions like this that make this forum so much fun. Thanks and keep it up. Welcome to the fun. JB

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Date: Tues, Feb 29, 2000 at 17:42:11 (GMT) From: SB Email: None To: Wordsworth Subject: If you were worshiping, then... Message:

you have missed a lot. If I was you, I would begin reading as much as I can about the guru you are following.. There is plenty to learn about our 'glorious' guru. Help yourself. Beging surfing. The Ex-premies.org offers tons of information. Warm regards, S

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Date: Tues, Feb 29, 2000 at 16:03:55 (GMT) From: Leaky Email: None To: Wordsworth Subject: What you're missing here Message:

Dear Wordsworth, What you are missing here is that you spell your I with a little i (i'm so humble) I expect you spell m's I with a capital. What's wrong with this picture? Answer: Identifying your higher self with m and not you. Love, Leaky

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Date: Tues, Feb 29, 2000 at 14:44:08 (GMT) From: Hal Email: None To: Wordsworth Subject: May I suggest? Message:

That you read with an open mind, the Journeys described by premies.

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Date: Tues, Feb 29, 2000 at 15:38:17 (GMT) From: Joey Email: None To: Hal Subject: No big deal Hal,but.... Message:

Excuse me Hal. Are you really recommending that our friend read Journeys written by premies? I'm assuming that you meant to say ex-premies. Please correct me if I'm wrong about this. Thanks, Joey

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Date: Tues, Feb 29, 2000 at 16:18:22 (GMT) From: jeez joey, give the guy a Email: None To: Joey Subject: break-yer jumpin on his every word (nt) Message:

nt

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Date: Wed, Mar 01, 2000 at 13:34:43 (GMT) From: hey, you're Email: None To: jeez joey, give the guy a Subject: the one who's all 'jumpy'. Relax (nt) Message:

nt

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Date: Tues, Feb 29, 2000 at 16:07:16 (GMT) From: Hal Email: None To: Joey Subject: Oops ! n.t.. Message:

n

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Date: Tues, Feb 29, 2000 at 12:38:10 (GMT) From: JHB Email: None To: Wordsworth Subject: he hopes for US knowledge review sessions Message:

It appears you are. The meditation techniques 'work' regardless of how they were taught. Therefore, why does Maharaji claim that his grace is essential to enjoy this life? (And don't tell he doesn't because you'll get bombarded with his quotes.) Why does he claim to be the only teacher of knowledge? Why does he invent a proven false lineage of Masters to support his claim to be the only one? And why has his 'evolution' of knowledge been littered with mistakes which have caused great suffering among his loyal followers. There are many other issues, such as Maharaji's lack of action when told about the child abuse inflicted by Jagdeo, the suicides of ashram premies after he closed the ashrams, the fact that many (most?) premies had negligible meditation experiences in spite of dedicating their lives to Maharaji, the redirecting of EV/DLM funds to Maharaji's personal use, the gold toilet fixtures on his plane, etc., etc. If you really want to contribute to this debate read the rest of the ex-premie.org site, and the DLM/EV Papers site (link at the top of this page), and then tell us that Maharaji is a good guy. John.

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Date: Tues, Feb 29, 2000 at 17:12:41 (GMT) From: Way Email: None To: Wordsworth Subject: To Wordsworth Message:

Wordsworth, Interesting pen name. Anything to do with 'the Word'? You say that you found Knowledge to be 'pretty effective' having received it many years ago. If you wish to engage in a further discussion, can you say just how many years ago you received the Knowledge? I ask because people's expectations were probably different depending upon the presentation of 'the Knowledge' at the time they received it. Don't be astonished at the vitriol. It is easily understood. When you go to somebody who claims to be offering the Truth with a capital T and what you get is a Lie with a capital L, then tomatoes and vitriol are quite in order. This is my perspective. If you have another perspective, by all means describe it. Best wishes.

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