Forum V: Archive
Compiled: Sun, Apr 09, 2000 at 11:05:00 (GMT)
From: Mar 29, 2000 To: Apr 07, 2000 Page: 4 Of: 5


Hal -:- Religions of the world -:- Sat, Apr 01, 2000 at 08:29:35 (GMT)
__ Susan -:- Maharaji's shit -:- Sat, Apr 01, 2000 at 20:51:09 (GMT)
__ cq -:- Religions of the world - between two stools -:- Sat, Apr 01, 2000 at 12:28:28 (GMT)

Lirpa -:- Let's All Rush Back to the Lotus Feet -:- Sat, Apr 01, 2000 at 06:33:42 (GMT)
__ Runamok -:- Great Idea! -:- Sat, Apr 01, 2000 at 07:01:56 (GMT)
__ __ Lirpa -:- Lirpa Loof = April Fool (nt) -:- Mon, Apr 03, 2000 at 03:49:22 (GMT)

la-ex -:- online magazine -:- Sat, Apr 01, 2000 at 06:17:27 (GMT)
__ Jane -:- online magazine -:- Sat, Apr 01, 2000 at 23:30:36 (GMT)
__ Jim -:- Interesting -:- Sat, Apr 01, 2000 at 07:50:00 (GMT)

Runamok -:- www.callwave.com -:- Sat, Apr 01, 2000 at 05:28:54 (GMT)

Daneane -:- 20 minutes late -:- Sat, Apr 01, 2000 at 03:53:16 (GMT)
__ AJW -:- Hodilogical? -:- Sun, Apr 02, 2000 at 11:59:09 (GMT)
__ cq -:- 20 minutes late -:- Sat, Apr 01, 2000 at 16:07:11 (GMT)
__ __ Selene -:- 20 minutes late -:- Sun, Apr 02, 2000 at 20:10:12 (GMT)
__ __ ali g -:- Rappers here too, wicked site -:- Sun, Apr 02, 2000 at 11:06:32 (GMT)
__ __ Daneane -:- 20 minutes late -:- Sat, Apr 01, 2000 at 19:30:33 (GMT)
__ __ __ Guru G -:- the meditation techniques -:- Sun, Apr 02, 2000 at 04:09:51 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Daneane -:- Those techniques -:- Sun, Apr 02, 2000 at 04:30:38 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Buddha -:- Those techniques -:- Sun, Apr 02, 2000 at 07:41:32 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ ham -:- Big up to ya, the big b, anytime ya fancy a pint -:- Sun, Apr 02, 2000 at 08:47:39 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Buddy Buddha -:- pints -:- Sun, Apr 02, 2000 at 11:09:32 (GMT)
__ Stonor -:- or never . . please define 'hodological space' -:- Sat, Apr 01, 2000 at 04:53:19 (GMT)
__ __ Daneane -:- Defiled...I mean, defined -:- Sat, Apr 01, 2000 at 05:07:25 (GMT)
__ __ __ Stonor -:- Defiled...you mean not clear enough in your terms -:- Sat, Apr 01, 2000 at 05:19:39 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Stonor -:- definition of 'hodological' -:- Sat, Apr 01, 2000 at 15:10:19 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Stonor -:- and a more Sartrian definition of 'hodological' -:- Sat, Apr 01, 2000 at 15:23:41 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Daneane -:- What does ostentatious mean? -:- Sat, Apr 01, 2000 at 05:49:12 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- From my online dictionary -:- Mon, Apr 03, 2000 at 02:17:20 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Stonor -:- From 3 online dictionaries -:- Mon, Apr 03, 2000 at 02:41:28 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- From 3 online dictionaries -:- Mon, Apr 03, 2000 at 03:03:23 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Stonor -:- Don't you have a dictionary, hmmm (nt) -:- Sat, Apr 01, 2000 at 05:56:14 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Daneane -:- Nah, I like ignorance. -:- Sat, Apr 01, 2000 at 06:02:12 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Stonor -:- Just another everyday asshole and admitting it! -:- Sat, Apr 01, 2000 at 06:07:45 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Stonor -:- Daneane: pls excuse crankiness/thanks-great word! -:- Sun, Apr 02, 2000 at 18:03:25 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Daneane -:- I'm confused -:- Sat, Apr 01, 2000 at 06:16:10 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- I'm confused -:- Sat, Apr 01, 2000 at 06:20:12 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Daneane -:- I see said the blind failed aspirant. -:- Sat, Apr 01, 2000 at 06:23:31 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- I see said the blind failed aspirant. -:- Sat, Apr 01, 2000 at 06:38:49 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ ham -:- Just how I imagined ashram life to be (nt) -:- Sat, Apr 01, 2000 at 10:15:59 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- at least we only imagined it -:- Sun, Apr 02, 2000 at 05:53:59 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ ham -:- Couldn't agree more -:- Sun, Apr 02, 2000 at 08:38:47 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ ham -:- Duh, slow or what, that's twice this week! -:- Sun, Apr 02, 2000 at 08:55:00 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- Duh, slow or what, that's twice this week! -:- Sun, Apr 02, 2000 at 19:29:04 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- Just another everyday asshole and admitting it! -:- Sat, Apr 01, 2000 at 06:14:28 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Stonor -:- Hi Selene! Talked to the (AG) Forum God lately? -:- Sun, Apr 02, 2000 at 18:17:14 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- the forum god is always with us -:- Sun, Apr 02, 2000 at 19:37:19 (GMT)

Susan -:- take a look at this -:- Sat, Apr 01, 2000 at 02:34:51 (GMT)
__ cq -:- take a look at this - the true story -:- Sat, Apr 01, 2000 at 14:57:00 (GMT)
__ Angry -:- The True Symbolism of Holi -:- Sat, Apr 01, 2000 at 12:28:33 (GMT)
__ Susan -:- text from magazine -:- Sat, Apr 01, 2000 at 03:12:07 (GMT)
__ Daneane -:- take a look at this -:- Sat, Apr 01, 2000 at 02:52:29 (GMT)

Jim -:- Too bad there weren't more women running DLM (EV) -:- Fri, Mar 31, 2000 at 23:50:17 (GMT)
__ Joey -:- But she was married to such a wonderful guy!! ::)) -:- Sat, Apr 01, 2000 at 05:03:27 (GMT)

JW -:- In Memoriam -- Ex Premie Passes Away -:- Fri, Mar 31, 2000 at 22:08:17 (GMT)
__ Susan -:- It sounds like he was a great person -:- Sat, Apr 01, 2000 at 02:27:25 (GMT)
__ Katie -:- In Memoriam -- Ex Premie Passes Away -:- Fri, Mar 31, 2000 at 23:29:28 (GMT)
__ Jim -:- Too bad, Joe -:- Fri, Mar 31, 2000 at 22:55:26 (GMT)
__ Robyn -:- In Memoriam -- Ex Premie Passes Away -:- Fri, Mar 31, 2000 at 22:43:09 (GMT)
__ __ Marianne -:- In Memoriam -- Ex Premie Passes Away -:- Sat, Apr 01, 2000 at 14:25:31 (GMT)

Press Box -:- High Court Libel Verdict Against ISP -:- Fri, Mar 31, 2000 at 20:18:30 (GMT)
__ cq -:- 'chilling effect on free speech ...' -:- Sat, Apr 01, 2000 at 16:30:45 (GMT)
__ __ slave -:- only in britian -:- Tues, Apr 04, 2000 at 04:30:33 (GMT)

Reuters News Desk -:- Underground Guru Surfaces for Cash from Faithful -:- Fri, Mar 31, 2000 at 19:58:19 (GMT)
__ a.p. -:- Underground Guru Surfaces for Cash from Faithful -:- Mon, Apr 03, 2000 at 21:19:53 (GMT)
__ Zelda -:- Please write text and we will get it to press -:- Sat, Apr 01, 2000 at 06:05:09 (GMT)
__ __ Reuters -:- starter text....some ideas...need help -:- Sat, Apr 01, 2000 at 16:07:47 (GMT)
__ __ __ Zelda -:- starter text....some ideas...need help -:- Sat, Apr 01, 2000 at 20:42:01 (GMT)

DEJ -:- Hecht and Associates -:- Fri, Mar 31, 2000 at 15:45:04 (GMT)
__ Joey -:- Hecht and Associates -:- Fri, Mar 31, 2000 at 16:55:51 (GMT)
__ __ webspider -:- Hecht and Associates -:- Sat, Apr 01, 2000 at 05:26:11 (GMT)
__ __ __ Joey -:- Hecht and Associates -:- Sat, Apr 01, 2000 at 05:49:27 (GMT)

JHB -:- Being Lord of the Universe -:- Fri, Mar 31, 2000 at 11:21:22 (GMT)
__ cq -:- Sounds more like 'Being John Malkovich' (nt) -:- Sat, Apr 01, 2000 at 12:31:09 (GMT)
__ AJW -:- Don't knock it until you've tried it. (nt) -:- Fri, Mar 31, 2000 at 16:07:21 (GMT)
__ Jean-Michel -:- Thanks, my page has been updated !! -:- Fri, Mar 31, 2000 at 15:14:14 (GMT)
__ __ G -:- 'Holy Breath' -:- Sun, Apr 02, 2000 at 04:44:16 (GMT)
__ __ __ Jim -:- Yes, that and the tooth fairy -- two great mysteri -:- Sun, Apr 02, 2000 at 15:27:23 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ G -:- 'Holy Breath' -:- Sun, Apr 02, 2000 at 17:13:59 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Stonor -:- 'Holy Breath'/virgin impregnation? -:- Sun, Apr 02, 2000 at 18:53:03 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ cq -:- 'Holy Breath'/virgin impregnation? -:- Tues, Apr 04, 2000 at 20:17:22 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Stonor -:- Blow in my ear . . . -:- Tues, Apr 04, 2000 at 21:08:13 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ G -:- Hatha Yoga, breath, exercise -:- Sun, Apr 02, 2000 at 19:54:21 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Runamok -:- Hatha Yoga, breath, exercise -:- Sun, Apr 02, 2000 at 21:41:55 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- The Man who Spoke to Cult Members -:- Sun, Apr 02, 2000 at 17:34:37 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ G -:- The Horse Whisperer -:- Sun, Apr 02, 2000 at 18:15:51 (GMT)
__ __ thin mann -:- Thanks, my page has been updated !! -:- Sat, Apr 01, 2000 at 18:56:03 (GMT)
__ __ thinn mann -:- Thanks, my page has been updated !! -:- Fri, Mar 31, 2000 at 19:10:25 (GMT)
__ Jean-Michel -:- Being Lord of the Universe is schizophrenic? -:- Fri, Mar 31, 2000 at 13:08:30 (GMT)

Jean-Michel -:- Rawat's problem with His Divinity -:- Fri, Mar 31, 2000 at 10:02:35 (GMT)
__ Joey -:- thanks for saving me a whole lotta money!! -:- Fri, Mar 31, 2000 at 17:14:53 (GMT)

Hugh -:- 'Best Of' Pauline Premie's Diary -:- Fri, Mar 31, 2000 at 06:46:58 (GMT)
__ Pauline Premie -:- You Don't Sound Like A Premie To Me -:- Fri, Mar 31, 2000 at 18:20:37 (GMT)
__ Dave -:- 'Best Of' Pauline Premie's Diary -:- Fri, Mar 31, 2000 at 09:25:13 (GMT)
__ __ Stapler -:- where are Premie Paulines diaries -:- Fri, Mar 31, 2000 at 11:44:02 (GMT)
__ __ __ Dave -:- where are Premie Paulines diaries -:- Fri, Mar 31, 2000 at 13:03:34 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Hugh -:- where are Premie Paulines diaries -:- Sat, Apr 01, 2000 at 05:02:31 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Dave -:- where are Premie Paulines diaries -:- Sat, Apr 01, 2000 at 13:31:30 (GMT)

G -:- Most Repetitive Buzzword award goes to Prem Rawat -:- Fri, Mar 31, 2000 at 03:08:08 (GMT)
__ G -:- Most Repetitive Buzzword award - revised wording -:- Sun, Apr 02, 2000 at 20:15:19 (GMT)
__ hamzen -:- Just reading Tom Peters is he, gm is always so -:- Fri, Mar 31, 2000 at 06:44:22 (GMT)
__ __ G -:- Maybe he saw 'Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure' -:- Sun, Apr 02, 2000 at 20:19:05 (GMT)
__ bloodboils -:- Excellent post -:- Fri, Mar 31, 2000 at 03:14:07 (GMT)


Date: Sat, Apr 01, 2000 at 08:29:35 (GMT)
From: Hal
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Religions of the world
Message:
Taoism: Shit happens.

Confucianism: Confucius say, ' Shit happens'.

Buddhism: Shit happens but it only appears to be shit.

Zen: What is the sound of shit happening?.

Hinduism: This shit's happened before.

Islam: If shit happens , it is the will of Allah.

Protestantism: Let shit happen elsewhere.

Catholicism: If shit happens it's because you deserve it.

Judaism: Why does shit always happen to us?

New Age: AFFIRM: Shit does not happen to me.

Atheism: I don't believe this shit!!

Rastafarianism: Hey Mon, Les roll up this shit an smoke it.

Maharaji......???????????????????????????????.................

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Date: Sat, Apr 01, 2000 at 20:51:09 (GMT)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: Hal
Subject: Maharaji's shit
Message:

Maharaj Ji- You can sit really close to my shit if you have enough cash
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Date: Sat, Apr 01, 2000 at 12:28:28 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Hal
Subject: Religions of the world - between two stools
Message:
Religions of the world - a couple more for you:


Spiritualism: 'is there any shit out there?'

Oshoism: 'allow your shit to happen'

Of course, Maharaji's just going throught the motions ...


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Date: Sat, Apr 01, 2000 at 06:33:42 (GMT)
From: Lirpa
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Let's All Rush Back to the Lotus Feet
Message:
Really. You know in your heart of hearts that Maharaji is God!

Bhole shri Satgurudev Maharaj Ki Jai!

Let's reopen tha asrams on our own, and devote out lives to really realizing this Knowledge - did we really give it 100% the first time?

When we return by the tens of thousands, Maharaji can rent the Astrodome for Millennium 2001. Except this time, we will crucify him on live TV and on the third day he will rise again!
Then everyone will know he was God in flesh all along.

Then world peace will dawn as everyone surrenders to the LOTU!

-Lirpa Loof

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Date: Sat, Apr 01, 2000 at 07:01:56 (GMT)
From: Runamok
Email: None
To: Lirpa
Subject: Great Idea!
Message:
We can play the 2001: A Space Odyssey theme with the tympani drums!
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Date: Mon, Apr 03, 2000 at 03:49:22 (GMT)
From: Lirpa
Email: None
To: Runamok
Subject: Lirpa Loof = April Fool (nt)
Message:
no text
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Date: Sat, Apr 01, 2000 at 06:17:27 (GMT)
From: la-ex
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: online magazine
Message:
Just a thought, would welcome any feedback on it..
How about if we started a monthly on line magazine here at ex-p.org?
It would provide interesting perspectives, interviews, insights, related articles, humour, past stories etc.
people could write in stories in response to certain provacative questions that might be helpful in putting a lot of this stuff into perspective, esp. for new people.
I started thinking about this after Jim's interview with joan apter, and I think it could be a real winner.
It would allow people to express themselves and others to read their stories, and could be chronicled for future reference.
Their might be pictures, humorous recollections, jokes,prizes for best or funniest story of the month, interviews with people getting out of cults, how peope saw through m, bits of trivia and nostalgia etc.
It would allow people to get to some really good bits of information without having to wade through other stuff.

Is this a tremendous amount of work?
do you think it would be fun?
there could be on going, play by play analysis of m and the games he plays, translations of his new age jargon etc.

What do you think, everyone?

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Date: Sat, Apr 01, 2000 at 23:30:36 (GMT)
From: Jane
Email: None
To: la-ex
Subject: online magazine
Message:
Yep. I think that is an excellent idea. Having discovered ex-premie site a couple of months ago, have found it mega interesting and would welcome a mag to focus thoughts and follow trails.Having just become a proper total ex-premie, I welcome others stories and especially like the 'journies'... the more of this stuff, the merrier.We need all the info we can get to debrief!
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Date: Sat, Apr 01, 2000 at 07:50:00 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: la-ex
Subject: Interesting
Message:
Not sure what to think. In a way I guess I think there isn't enough stuff to warrant something like that. No real interest, either, outside our own small p/ex-p world. But then I don't know. Lots of work? Probably. Fun? Maybe. Interesting idea, though.
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Date: Sat, Apr 01, 2000 at 05:28:54 (GMT)
From: Runamok
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: www.callwave.com
Message:
This is a new service in conjunction with having Busy Call Forwarding installed on your phone line. It gives a message to someone trying to get through to you while you are online Foruming at the mouth.

It's only available in the U.S. but probably elsewhere pretty soon.

Their privacy policy looks decent. Busy Call Forwarding is only $0.75 a month (worth $30 in a second line that I don't have).

They also have free Internet fax lines.

You can get free long distance service (with a mic and that's assuming you have speakers) at:
www.dialpad.com

It says you can call anywhere in the U.S. I dunno if that's only from the U.S.

Dialpad.com is actually a nonprofit.

They both involve some kind of window on screen. I'm not sure about callwave.com but dialpad.com is advertising. (You need a little window to tell you that you have a call w/callwave.)

Dinner in the dumpster.

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Date: Sat, Apr 01, 2000 at 03:53:16 (GMT)
From: Daneane
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: 20 minutes late
Message:
for the first of two 'asking for knowledge' meetings. Damn! Missed my chance! Never will I learn to shape my reality. So I will wander around my hodilogical space in my shameless ignorance.
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Date: Sun, Apr 02, 2000 at 11:59:09 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Daneane
Subject: Hodilogical?
Message:
Is that when you play chess when you're on your holidays?

Anth the empty molar gist.

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Date: Sat, Apr 01, 2000 at 16:07:11 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Daneane
Subject: 20 minutes late
Message:
So much has changed over the years.

Apart from one thing:

He still calls it 'Knowledge'.

Implying?

You guessed.




Well ...

Don't feel dumb and don't feel blue,
Here's that Knowledge, just for you.

Just remember, it's all 'grace'
Paste a smile across your face.

When you taste that holy food,
Don't forget your gratitude.

Gratitude is what he needs
Without it he can't feed his greed.

Greed for what? You know the score;
Gulfstream 4s might cost you more,

Next the yacht, then what? your soul?
That's the prize, for him the goal...

Don't be dumb, girl, can't you see?
Maha-raji ain't for free.







'You must vow never to reveal these techniques to anyone under any circumstances'
(Maharaji during the Knowledge sessions)

Techniques discussion:

http://perso.club-internet.fr/jmkahn/discusskt.htm

Techniques

http://perso.club-internet.fr/jmkahn/KSession.htm#BERAGON

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Date: Sun, Apr 02, 2000 at 20:10:12 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: 20 minutes late
Message:
cq did my mail to you bounce?
just curious, some mail bounced and I deleted the notice w/o
looking at it.

some computer specialist I am..... time to look for a waitress job or something. (washing underwear at the residence?)

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Date: Sun, Apr 02, 2000 at 11:06:32 (GMT)
From: ali g
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: Rappers here too, wicked site
Message:
Slip some nice phat beatz behind yer rap, man we're pumping.

My sources tell me the big gm's got a few problems on the music score, but he's got the 32 trax studio right? Maybe we should strike a deal, undercover stuff, man to man, waddya say?

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Date: Sat, Apr 01, 2000 at 19:30:33 (GMT)
From: Daneane
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: 20 minutes late
Message:
Such the articulate wonder. The second asking for knowledge session was this morning. Missed another. I'm just hopeless.

I just watched Pink Floyd The Wall again today. I bought the DVD. An amazing experience. I like very much a line from the last song; 'And when they've given it their all, some stagger and fall, after all it's not easy, banging your heart against some mad bugger's wall.'

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Date: Sun, Apr 02, 2000 at 04:09:51 (GMT)
From: Guru G
Email: None
To: Daneane
Subject: the meditation techniques
Message:
If you want to learn what the 'Knowledge' techniques are, cq provided a link to the old-style techniques. There are also links in the Forum to the revised techniques, techniques as discussed in Indian scriptures, and Buddhist descriptions of breath techniques. The link to the revised techniques provides a detailed description of the way they are taught now by Prem Rawat. There is also a link to a web page describing how Dr. Lane 'revealed' the techniques to some people, and guess what, they had an experience, but without the conceptual stuff added on. Seek and ye shall find, or, if you ask with a sincere heart and I discern that you are 'ready', I shall reveal these links to you. Thus sayeth the Great Guru G, and don't look at that man behind the curtain. And I don't care whether you 'stay in touch' with me or not; I have no videos to sell.

If you read this information, you will understand more about meditation techniques than many premies do.

In my opinion, one thing to be careful of with meditation is expecting too much. I think that Prem Rawat still fosters too high an expectation in people with this idea that his supposed 'grace' will supercharge them. Maybe 'grace' isn't said anymore, but it is still implied. There's also the idea that what you focus on in the 'Knowledge' techniques is God, I don't think so, not from my experience. To me, meditation is what it is, something simple to focus on, which might lead to becoming more aware of your awareness.

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Date: Sun, Apr 02, 2000 at 04:30:38 (GMT)
From: Daneane
Email: None
To: Guru G
Subject: Those techniques
Message:
Guru G -

Thanks for the tip. I read through the techniques and Instructor's manual on this site already...awhile ago...part of what made me decide against further involvement. I don't believe its the techniques, I think its the effort - among other things.

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Date: Sun, Apr 02, 2000 at 07:41:32 (GMT)
From: Buddha
Email: None
To: Daneane
Subject: Those techniques
Message:
The day will come when you will laugh at all effort to find anything. The time of laughter is now.
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Date: Sun, Apr 02, 2000 at 08:47:39 (GMT)
From: ham
Email: None
To: Buddha
Subject: Big up to ya, the big b, anytime ya fancy a pint
Message:
you know the score.

One little question, how do you feel about the way your ideas have been used, also how they have evolved?

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Date: Sun, Apr 02, 2000 at 11:09:32 (GMT)
From: Buddy Buddha
Email: None
To: ham
Subject: pints
Message:
Well Zenham,

They now call me the one who has given up giving things up, so you're on for that pint.

My teachings now have become: Fucking misunderstood.......but that's cool, they never should have been taken so seriously...HO HO HO........

You can't avoid the void...

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Date: Sat, Apr 01, 2000 at 04:53:19 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: Daneane
Subject: or never . . please define 'hodological space'
Message:
Please define 'hodological space,' or you might really wander in 'shameless ignorance.'

I really would like a response. (Don't ask me why!)

Stonor

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Date: Sat, Apr 01, 2000 at 05:07:25 (GMT)
From: Daneane
Email: None
To: Stonor
Subject: Defiled...I mean, defined
Message:
Stonor -

It's some crazy term from existential/Sartre philosophy - at least as far as I know it. Has to deal with how our perception affects time. Like if you are sitting in the dentists' chair, and hour seems like 80 years. If you are picking up dollar bills off the sidewalk, an hour seems like two seconds. I thought it was in line with the discussions below regarding the shaping of one's reality.

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Date: Sat, Apr 01, 2000 at 05:19:39 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: Daneane
Subject: Defiled...you mean not clear enough in your terms
Message:
I wouldn't dare use terminology like that unless I knew exactly what it meant. Not a good enough definition. Loses its thrust through insincerity. A very ostentatious way of commenting on the subjective speed at which a kettle boils.
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Date: Sat, Apr 01, 2000 at 15:10:19 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: Daneane
Subject: definition of 'hodological'
Message:
source of definition, but try search on 'hodological' - great reading when I have time

Hodological space

The term 'hodological space' is derived from the Greek word 'hodos' , path, way. In contrast to the mathematical concept of space as
presented on maps, plans, etc. 'hodological space' is based on the factual topological, physical, social, and psychological conditions a
person is faced with on the way from point A to point B, whether in an open landscape or within urban or architectural conditions.
Bollnow gives many interesting observations on the cultural implications of hodological distances as compared and contrasted with
geometrical distances (language and culture in mountain valleys; traditional traffic conditions in mountainous regions; the structure
of war landscape with its absolute focus on the front). But of particular importance is his description of an apartment and, e.g. its
'cave-like character'. In the architect's plan of a housing project, two points in two different apartments located side by side may be
just some 30 or 40 centimetres apart (separated by a wall). But, what somebody goes through in term of physical and psychological
stress, to go from one of these points to the other, this is described very impressively by Bollnow. The vital condition of the
hodological relation might be tremendously different from that of the architect! In short, Bollnow presents an important lesson for
architects and designers, which should teach them to think a little bit more while drawing with their pencils.

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Date: Sat, Apr 01, 2000 at 15:23:41 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: Daneane
Subject: and a more Sartrian definition of 'hodological'
Message:
Sketch for A Theory of the Emotions: Sartre's Objection to Empirical Psychological Analyses

4 The lived world - the world criss crossed with my projects, demands, paths - intentionality - is complex and becomes difficult. Sartre
speaks of the world as a 'hodological chart' of our Umwelt [hodological - hodos (Gr) a way, path - a mapping of paths, routes;
Um-welt (Ger) - around-world, our (my) environment].

Its full of books that ought to be read; shoes to be cleaned; clothes to be washed; nappies to be changed; essays to be written; tutors to
avoid; friends to discover; promises to keep; appointments to meet; ....... and of course Others: to negotiate with, convert, befriend,
reinforce, care for, betray, owe......... . These are aspects of my intentional, lived, world, of my plans, projects, commitments,
engagements.

Sometimes we find it impossible to manage, proceed with our projects. I can't open the door, or the can; I can't find my brown shoes,
or time for my essay. Then the impossibility of finding a solution is apprehended as a quality of the world - it is seen differently (as
obstructive, annoying, tensioned, fearful....)

In emotions we simplify the world, to cope with it, manage it. We degrade ourselves into a non-reflective c'ness which attempts to
deal with the world by transforming it into a radically simplified, solvable, problem.... 'magical transformation of reality'

Means - the body, directed by c'ness (better: 'as' a c'ness), changes its organised relation to the world so that the world is changed -
simplified radically. (Sartre's examples:) I cry before the doctor; my limbs freeze before (are compressed by) the face at the window; my
voice stumbles and breaks when he/she asks me a question. I dance excitedly around my lover just arrived. (More:) I kick the door,
throw the can at the wall; I convince myself loudly that blue shoes go perfectly ('I live my blue shoes, brazenly'); I approach the essay
with abandonment, writing in flippant, carefree style.

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Date: Sat, Apr 01, 2000 at 05:49:12 (GMT)
From: Daneane
Email: None
To: Stonor
Subject: What does ostentatious mean?
Message:
hmmm
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Date: Mon, Apr 03, 2000 at 02:17:20 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Daneane
Subject: From my online dictionary
Message:
:a UNIX utility call webster (now if I would just use the damned thing)
=================
Overview of adj ostentatious

The adj ostentatious has 2 senses (first 1 from tagged texts)

1. ostentatious, pretentious -- (intended to attract notice and impress others;
'an ostentatious sable coat')
2. ostentatious, pretentious, kitsch -- (of a display that is tawdry or vulgar)

=========================================
no return for - hodilogical

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Date: Mon, Apr 03, 2000 at 02:41:28 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: From 3 online dictionaries
Message:
Yeah, I know. That's why I was so frustrated (see way below - I checked in all three of G's on-line dictionary links out of curiosity). There are thousands of words that aren't in any dictionary yet. That's why I finally pumped it into a search engine. Interesting concept , 'hodological,' no?

Selene, don't you know what ostentatious means? I'm surprised at you - or maybe you've just been fortunate not to be around people that could be described that way.

Let me light the coming blow-torch if anyone reads this. Yes, I know, 'It takes one to know one.'

Take care Selene!

Stonor

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Date: Mon, Apr 03, 2000 at 03:03:23 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Stonor
Subject: From 3 online dictionaries
Message:
yeah I knew what it meant. How could I not :)

bored I guess. I like cutting a pasting from webster.
being ostentatious and all. ( a bit altered myself at the moment)

Meant to tell you, that proxy stuff with the playing with header info and all... won't work on a Mac. Sorry.
My theory is Macs never needed that much help!

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Date: Sat, Apr 01, 2000 at 05:56:14 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: Daneane
Subject: Don't you have a dictionary, hmmm (nt)
Message:
hmmmmmmm?
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Date: Sat, Apr 01, 2000 at 06:02:12 (GMT)
From: Daneane
Email: None
To: Stonor
Subject: Nah, I like ignorance.
Message:
argh
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Date: Sat, Apr 01, 2000 at 06:07:45 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: Daneane
Subject: Just another everyday asshole and admitting it!
Message:
That's a start.
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Date: Sun, Apr 02, 2000 at 18:03:25 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: Daneane
Subject: Daneane: pls excuse crankiness/thanks-great word!
Message:
Please excuse my crankiness that evening - I really wanted to know what 'hodological' meant, and you pushed one of my buttons (I teach in public ed). Unlike 'ostentatious', 'hodological' is not in any dictionary I have, and I hadn't come across it in my readings of Sartre. I was even going through my philosophy books before I decided to try a web search. Do you remember what text of his you read it in? And yes, thank you for expanding my vocabulary with such an interesting concept/ word. I intend to read up on it at those links I found.

Stonor

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Date: Sat, Apr 01, 2000 at 06:16:10 (GMT)
From: Daneane
Email: None
To: Stonor
Subject: I'm confused
Message:
Does something in that term bother you? I could get you the passages and all that where Sartre covers it if you'd like. I was just recently thinking about it again because of those posts. I didn't even much like Sartre, but a few things stuck in my head. Or are you just joking around with me?
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Date: Sat, Apr 01, 2000 at 06:20:12 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Daneane
Subject: I'm confused
Message:
Ever read 'No Exit'? Be careful Daneane. This place reminds
me a lot of that play.
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Date: Sat, Apr 01, 2000 at 06:23:31 (GMT)
From: Daneane
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: I see said the blind failed aspirant.
Message:
I liked that play, I think, was a long time ago.
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Date: Sat, Apr 01, 2000 at 06:38:49 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Daneane
Subject: I see said the blind failed aspirant.
Message:
Yeah it was a good play.
Sartre's version of hell:

A bunch of people who can't stand each other locked up in a room together for eternity. Good dialog.

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Date: Sat, Apr 01, 2000 at 10:15:59 (GMT)
From: ham
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: Just how I imagined ashram life to be (nt)
Message:
a
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Date: Sun, Apr 02, 2000 at 05:53:59 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: ham
Subject: at least we only imagined it
Message:
Your tapes helped with the drive back from SD ham.
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Date: Sun, Apr 02, 2000 at 08:38:47 (GMT)
From: ham
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: Couldn't agree more
Message:
That was what I was trying to imply, wish I had more of a facility for the poetic rather than just the dry use of language, ahh well.

Hey I'm glad THAT music is still happening for you.(Just a little ironic dig at THAT love, THE speaker.....

Tried to send you an e-mail coupla days back, no luck. NB new e-mail address if you fancy, I've also got some more music for ya to, again if you fancy. Did a search scan for Arizona & house music, couldn't believe how many events were happening, mind you Arizona is pretty big right?

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Date: Sun, Apr 02, 2000 at 08:55:00 (GMT)
From: ham
Email: ham@hamzen.freeserve.co.uk
To: ham
Subject: Duh, slow or what, that's twice this week!
Message:
a
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Date: Sun, Apr 02, 2000 at 19:29:04 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: ham
Subject: Duh, slow or what, that's twice this week!
Message:
Hi again
I'm thinking a new place just opened up really close to where
I live. real close I mean I could get wasted and walk home, if
I wasn't afraid of getting murdered. I'll check it out.
Wonder why your mail to me bounced. I'll send you mail and see if you have the right address.
Yeah I played those tapes after noticing all the shrines they put up on the sides of the highway where someone wiped out. Little crosses and flowers. I was getting morbid so I played the music REAL loud. good stuff.
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Date: Sat, Apr 01, 2000 at 06:14:28 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Stonor
Subject: Just another everyday asshole and admitting it!
Message:
Looks like as good a thread as any to jump into. Seems like it has the right adjectives and all. Hi Stoner.
Here's as switch. I can barely read or post here since I got back online Thusday but AG works fine. If I was 'ostentatious' I'd go so far as to say 'somebody' was trying to tell me something :)

Late for K ... and telling us about it..
and the insomniacs no less. hmmm... good thing I'm in a happy mood. This is funny.
Just wanted to say hi really.

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Date: Sun, Apr 02, 2000 at 18:17:14 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: Hi Selene! Talked to the (AG) Forum God lately?
Message:
Hi Selene,

That thread with you about crashing over at AG was the most fun I've had on the web! And don't you love the AG Forum God's response? How did he make that post subject invisible? I've copied the code he used, but I haven't tried it yet - it requires the right occasion! I've crashed there recently (and lost an e-mail I was working on. It seemed to be better for a while. I'm surprised you've had problems here - I've never crashed here (in that way ;-)

You caught me in atired mood that night, but your happy mood helped to soften my landing in bed. Loved your commet about the 'right adjectives and all.' Thanks, I did need that. (going to leave that 'commet' typo, rather like it in this context, even if it's misspelled)

Stonor

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Date: Sun, Apr 02, 2000 at 19:37:19 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Stonor
Subject: the forum god is always with us
Message:
Hi
yeah AG is good for me sometimes I just feel irreverent.
I am not sure what you mean, Mr. D may have used proxy software, I didn't notice his header stuff on those posts. I get lazy about stuff like that, been doing computing way too long.
You can email him about it. I'm sure he'll tell you.

I'm still in vacation/I don't give a shit mode. It's nice while it lasts :)

So you were grumpy huh? haha.... I'll leave it at that. I wouldn't worry.

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Date: Sat, Apr 01, 2000 at 02:34:51 (GMT)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: take a look at this
Message:
Life Magazine 1979 Squirt Gun Guru

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Date: Sat, Apr 01, 2000 at 14:57:00 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Susan
Subject: take a look at this - the true story
Message:
A guy walks into a bar, and notices a huge
BIC pen standing next to the bartender. He asks the bartender, 'Where did you get such a large pen?'

The bartender replies, 'A genie gave it to me.'

'Sure, a genie gave it to you,' the patron sarcastically retorts.

'No, really. See here's the magic lamp where the genie is trapped.'

The patron asks if he could see the lamp. The bartender
hands it over. The patron promptly rubs the lamp and POOF!
out pops a genie.

The genie booms, 'He who wakes me will receive one wish.'

The man thinks a while and says, 'I want a million bucks!'

The genie nods his head, and tells the patron go home and his wish will be fulfilled. So, the man hauls butt towards home. As he round the corner he notices that his yard appears to be completely white. As he gets closer he realizes that the 'white' is what appears to be a million DUCKS.

Now he's really angry. He runs back to the bar, confronts the bartender and screams, 'I wanted a million BUCKS, not a million DUCKS!'

The bartender casually replies, 'Did you think I asked for a big BIC?'

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Date: Sat, Apr 01, 2000 at 12:28:33 (GMT)
From: Angry
Email: None
To: Susan
Subject: The True Symbolism of Holi
Message:
Finally, I get it! All those times we let him soak us. He was soaking us alright. Soaking us of our money, careers, relationships and who knows what else.

This man is despicable-the lowest form of human being possible. Other than that, I think he is total SCUM.

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Date: Sat, Apr 01, 2000 at 03:12:07 (GMT)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: Susan
Subject: text from magazine
Message:
When last in the public eye, in the mid-seventies, guru Maharaj Ji was feuding with his mother,who disowned him for being corrupted by Western ways. Since the the pudgy Perfect Master and Lord of the Universe, now 21, has been running his Divine Light Mission ( which claims 15,000 followers in North America ), driving his Maserati, Jenson and Rolls-Royce and watching a lot of TV at his $600,000 Malibu estate. Two years ago he became as American citizen, a proccess accelerated by is marraige at the age of 16 to his blonde secretary. Their only child, a daughter, is four. Recently the Maharaj Ji moved his mission control center from Denver to Miami, where this flashiest of Indian Gurus rented the Orange Bowl for a love festival. Later he got down to serious preaching at the Miami Beach Convention center, where for $35 initiates got to kiss his feet and donate gifts.

The smaller print says:

An estimated 10,000 disciples soak up love and thousands of gallons of colored water from spurting cannons manned by the guru himself (left) while the Rod Stewart song 'Do you think I'm sexy' blares over the Orange Bowl's speakers. The Guru's most devout followers hand over their worldly goods to him, live in communes, and give up meat, alchohol, tobacco and sex.

Editorial comment:

Well, obviously again, a news story about some other Guru. This guru heads the Divine Light Mission not Elan Vital. His name is Maharaj Ji not Maharaji. His followers live in communes, not ashrams. And by that time Hansi had been born. God, he must have a double, as it sure looks like his to me.

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Date: Sat, Apr 01, 2000 at 02:52:29 (GMT)
From: Daneane
Email: None
To: Susan
Subject: take a look at this
Message:
Was there much stage diving at this event?
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Date: Fri, Mar 31, 2000 at 23:50:17 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Too bad there weren't more women running DLM (EV)
Message:
KABUMBA, Uganda (AP) -- Eight years after Joseph Kibwetere abandoned his family to help form a doomsday sect, his faded black-and-white photographs still adorn his wife's home, alongside pictures of Jesus, the Blessed Virgin Mary and the pope.

They are reminders of happier times, says Therese Kibwetere -- before self-described visionary Credonia Mwerinde, her sister and a niece moved into her home and took over her husband's life.

Joseph Kibwetere, a former school administrator who had a lifelong interest in Catholic visionaries, has been widely touted as the leader of the Movement for the Restoration of the Ten Commandments of God. But his estranged wife said this week it was Mwerinde, not her husband, who controlled the sect, where she was known as 'The Programmer.'

'Whenever anything was to be done, it was Credonia,' she said.

The question of who orchestrated one of the worst mass murders in recent history became even more pressing Thursday, as authorities unearthed 80 more bodies in a compound linked to the sect. The discovery brought to about 724 the number of dead found so far. A fifth property used by the cult has yet to be excavated.

Ugandan authorities were planning this week to ask the international police coordination agency Interpol to issue international arrest warrants for Kibwetere, Mwerinde and three others.

Kibwetere thought to have died in fire
Kibwetere, 64, is believed to have perished in the March 17 inferno at the sect's compound in Kanunga, which killed at least 330 sect followers. Mwerinde's whereabouts at the time of the fire are unknown.

As the body count climbed once again, Mwerinde's former common-law husband Eric Mazima challenged her carefully cultivated image as a religious devotee. He said it was only after the couple's joint business went bankrupt that she claimed to have seen an apparition of the Blessed Virgin Mary in a cave in the southwestern Ugandan village of Ngakishenyi and turned to religion.

Until then, he said, she ran a shop in Kanunga that sold banana beer and a fiery local liquor, and had been regarded as notoriously promiscuous.

'She went to church only once a year,' he said Thursday in an interview in Kanunga. 'Sundays were days of making business. She was after money.'

Mazima also described the leadership of the Ten Commandments Movement as largely a family affair, with relatives of the 48-year-old Mwerinde serving as four of the sect's '12 Apostles.'

Vision of the Virgin Mary
Mwerinde left Mazima a week after her alleged August 24, 1988, vision. Four months later, she met Kibwetere in Nyamitanga, where he and his wife had gone to hear her testify about her visions.

Juvenal Mugambwa, Kibwetere's son, said Mwerinde told his father the Blessed Virgin had directed her to Nyamitanga to find a man called 'Kibwetere,' who would take them to his home where they would spread her message to the world.

That evening, Kibwetere drove home with his wife, Mwerinde, Mwerinde's sister Angelina Migisha, and two other friends.

Mugambwa described his father as a perfect figurehead in a country where male leadership is deemed necessary for any group's legitimacy. 'He had status, he had money and he had a vehicle,' Mugambwa said.

Within days of their arrival, Joseph Kibwetere and his wife had moved into a room with Mwerinde and the three other women. According to Therese Kibwetere, she was denied any sexual contact with her husband.

Mugambwa believes his father and Mwerinde had a sexual relationship, which annoyed him. 'I suspected it,' he said. 'Someone who talks to God must be more righteous.'

According to Mugambwa and his mother, Mwerinde soon revealed a penchant for cruelty, exploding in rages, beating Kibwetere's children and demanding total obedience to her divinely-inspired messages -- all the while saying she spoke directly for the Blessed Virgin Mary.

Talking replaced by sign language
After a few months, talking was banned in favor of sign language, Mugambwa said. Meals were cut from three to two, with two days of fasting each week. Finally, as the house swelled with the movement's adherents, mothers separated from their children.

Mwerinde enforced her rules through visions, retiring alone to a room to write and receive 'programs from the Virgin Mary,' Mugambwe says. She would then emerge with the declaration: 'I've been receiving messages from God that the Virgin Mary is annoyed. People are sinning too much and God is going to end the world because of the sins.'

Children bore the brunt of Mwerinde's harshness, Mugambwa said. She beat his sisters and forced 60 children to live in a 15-by-40-foot (4.5-by-12-meter) backyard shed. The windows were nailed shut and the children forced to sleep on the dirt floor. They frequently were infected with scabies. By then, Mugambwa had been cast as an enemy.

'When I offered them sweets, they refused, making a sign that I was Satan,' he said.

After three years of abuse, Kibwetere's extended family urged him to expel Mwerinde and the three women from the house. After he refused, they forced the women out. Kibwetere went with them. 'He said we were not his children and she (Therese Kibwetere) was not his wife.'

Kibwetere moved with Mwerinde to Kanunga, her hometown, where he became a bishop in the fledgling movement, donning a bishop's ring and church vestments to signify the role. He returned only to Kabumba once, for a funeral. He never spoke to his family throughout the entire visit.

Left behind with the pictures on a wall mantle is a framed printed version of what Therese Kibwetere said was her husband's favorite prayer 'Oh Lord God: Help me keep my big mouth shut until I know what I am talking about.'

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Date: Sat, Apr 01, 2000 at 05:03:27 (GMT)
From: Joey
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: But she was married to such a wonderful guy!! ::))
Message:
Doomsday Cult Leader Could Be A Mental Case
March 31, 2000

KAMPALA, Uganda (PANA) - The police in Uganda now fear that the exact number of people killed by the leaders of a religious sect in south-western Uganda might never be known.

In the latest development, police Thursday unearthed 81 bodies, including those of 44 children, on the property of a member of the Movement for the Restoration of the Ten Commandments of God, identified as Joseph Nyamurinda.

Twenty-seven girls, 17 boys and 33 women were among the bodies pulled out from a large hole in the garden of the house.

Nyamurinda's house is in Rushojwa, about 35 km north-east of Kanungu, in neighbouring Bushenyi district.

The mass grave is the fifth to be discovered since the 17 March fire in Kanungu, the cult's headquarters, which killed over 530 people.

Meanwhile, it has been confirmed that cult leader, Joseph Kibwetere, was a hospitalised mental patient until less than two years ago.

'He had an affective disorder. A cyclical thing. Up and down. Like manic depress,' Dr. Fred Kigozi, executive director of Kampala's Butabika mental hospital, told a Kampala daily.

He said Kibwetere suffered from a serious mental illness that required him to be institutionalised for treatment.

Kigozi added that Kibwetere was released sometime in 1998.

Medical experts say manic depression, also known as bipolar mood disorder in its more severe forms, causes a person to lose contact with reality and experience false beliefs, especially of grandeur ('I am the president'), ('I am God'). It could also be of a sexual nature or the patient could hear voices and see visions.

The illness also causes deep depression and suicide is the most common cause of death for people with manic depression.

Experts say that people with the illness are not aware of their actions and don't realise they are sick.

The illness can be treated but medical experts say if not diagnosed and treated, the impact of the illness can be devastating to the individual, others and society in general.

Kibwetere never returned to the hospital for treatment after being released.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This site is part of AFRICA NEWS ONLINE.

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Date: Fri, Mar 31, 2000 at 22:08:17 (GMT)
From: JW
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: In Memoriam -- Ex Premie Passes Away
Message:
I just found out yesterday, that an old friend of mine, and an ex-premie, passed away last Monday from a virulent form of leukemia. He was diagnosed in early January, did bone marrow chemo, but didn't even live three months after his diagnosis.

His name was Denny Roling and he lived in Denver, and was a premie there in the late 70s. Denny and I went to Catholic high school together and I'm sorry to say I gave him 'satsang' and he received knowledge in about 1977. But Denny was a lot smarter than me, and got out of the cult about 1980, a good three years before I did. Denny later told me that he couldn't reconcile what was being preached by Maharaji and the premies, with the ways both the premies and Maharaji acted. Plus, he realized he was just really unhappy being a premie and that knowledge didn't work. Denny was only 46 when he died.

He worked in the animal hospital at the Denver Zoo for 15 years. I connected up with Denny again after many years, when I was watching my local PBS station and saw a film called 'Klondike and Snow' about how Denny raised two abandoned Polar Bear cubs -- the first time that had ever been done in captivity. I saw him in the show, tracked down his address, and wrote to him about 3 years ago. He even appeared on 'Oprah' with Klondike and Snow (who are now living at Sea World in Orlando).

My mom sent me the obituary from our home town newspaper. It is still amazing to me that homophobic newspapers still, in the year 2000, will not acknowledge gay relationships for what they are. Denny and his partner Bruce were a married couple, and would have been legally married had they been allowed to. They bought a house together, and had been a couple for about 15 years, living with a menagery of animals. But instead of using the typical term 'longtime companion' the paper just refers to Bruce as Denny's 'special friend...with whom he made his home.' Kind of stupid and sad, really.

Did any of you other exes know Denny?

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Date: Sat, Apr 01, 2000 at 02:27:25 (GMT)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: It sounds like he was a great person
Message:
I like to hear stories of ex premies doing great things with their lives. It sounds like he did some very wonderful things. What a sad thing for a person who had so much to give to die at only 46.
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Date: Fri, Mar 31, 2000 at 23:29:28 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: In Memoriam -- Ex Premie Passes Away
Message:
Hi Joe -
I did not know Denny, but I am sorry to hear about his death. He sounds like a wonderful person, and someone who I would have liked very much, since (as you know) I also love animals - as it sounds like he did. I am glad to hear he got out of the cult after only three years, though - sounds like a very smart guy.

I am sure he will be missed very much by both his human and animal friends. And, yeah, it's weird when you are not 'legally' married to someone - I hope that changes soon!

Take care, Joe -
Love,
Katie

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Date: Fri, Mar 31, 2000 at 22:55:26 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: Too bad, Joe
Message:
sigh
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Date: Fri, Mar 31, 2000 at 22:43:09 (GMT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: In Memoriam -- Ex Premie Passes Away
Message:
Dear Joe,
No, I didn't know Denny but I sorry for your loss. At least you reconnected with him before he died. I use to work in a zoo while I was a premie, what a great job! I bet his work was really satisfying and he had love in his life, that says a lot.
Take good care dear.
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Sat, Apr 01, 2000 at 14:25:31 (GMT)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: In Memoriam -- Ex Premie Passes Away
Message:
Jöe: I am sorry to hear of Denny's death and your loss of a friend. I´m also sorry you didn´t get a chance to say goodbye to him, because it sounds like you would have wanted to do so. My thoughts are with you.

Love, Marianne

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Date: Fri, Mar 31, 2000 at 20:18:30 (GMT)
From: Press Box
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: High Court Libel Verdict Against ISP
Message:
Taken from an article in the British 'Daily Mail', Friday. March 31st, 2000.

start

Firm faces £500,000 bill after physicist is libelled.

INTERNET COMPANY PAYS THE PRICE OF CARELESS CHATTING

An INTERNET company was left with a £500,000 legal bill after an academic was libelled on the World Wide Web.

In a landmark case, Demon agreed to pay damages and legal costs to physicist Dr Laurence Godfrey for offensive remarks made about him in an online discussion group.

Other Internet companies which host free-for-all discussion forums - known as newsgroups or bulletin boards - could now face big defamation bills for comments made by those who use them.

In the High Court in London yesterday, Dr Godfrey's barrister, Gordon Bishop, said the legal action was linked to a message posted in January 1997 on a newsgroup run by Demon, which, as an Internet service provider, helps connect users to the Net.

The message, on a newsgroup dealing with Thailand's political and social affairs, purported to be from
Dr Godfrey but was a forgery. 'It was squalid, obscene and defamatory of Dr Godfrey,' said Mr Bishop.

Dr Godfrey made strenuous efforts to have it removed, including sending several faxes to Demon, one of the biggest Internet providers.

But the firm did nothing about the posting. A letter of complaint also went unanswered. In July 1998, a posting appeared on the uk.legal.newsgroup. which has a much wider readership in Britain, making further defamatory allegations about Dr Godfrey.

Again, Demon failed to act on his requests for the posting to be removed.

The physicist brought two libel actions against the company, but the parties reached a settlement without trials.

Demon, now owned by Thus plc, agreed to pay Dr Godfrey £15,000 in damages and legal costs of £230,000. The company's own costs are likely to be a similar amount.

Mr Bishop said Demon had never suggested there was any truth in either libel, but argued it was not responsible or liable for their publication and it was not under any duty to remove them from its news servers. Lawyers say the case has made it clear that Internet service providers must remove defamatory postings once they are aware of their existence.

As he left court, Dr Godfrey, who is based in London and has conducted research in nuclear phyiscs all over the world, said:'I am delighted.'

'If Demon had taken the simple steps that I had asked of them at the outset, this monumental waste of money could have been avoided.'

Adam Taylor, an IT law expert, said Internet companies companies, like bookshops and printers, are still partially protected from accusations of defamation. 'The defence of 'innocent dissemination' means that they cannot be taken to court if they are unaware their messages are defamatory.'

'This case does not mean Internet service providers have to monitor everything that is posted on bulletin boards, but if a complaint is made and the ISP does nothing about it, the company can now be held liable,' he added.

ISPs would now have to act as unwilling policemen, said Mr Taylor. 'Bulletin boards sum up the whole ethos of the Internet, which is about free discussion. Now, we will see them pulling messages at the slightest hint of a defamatory comment.'

'This case is going to have a chilling effect on free speech on the Internet.'

end

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Date: Sat, Apr 01, 2000 at 16:30:45 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Press Box
Subject: 'chilling effect on free speech ...'
Message:


But fret not, webmasters:



1. The message was a forgery.

2. Dr Godfrey made strenuous efforts to have it removed, including sending several faxes to Demon, one of the biggest Internet providers.






So, first, a complaint has to be made ...

well, I guess the Maha might just do that, IF somebody were to post under his name. (...even if that somebody was a follower of his? - interesting.)




'Adam Taylor, an IT law expert, said Internet companies, like bookshops and printers, are still partially protected from accusations of defamation.

'The defence of 'innocent dissemination' means that they cannot be taken to court if they are unaware their messages are defamatory.'

'This case does not mean Internet service providers have to monitor everything that is posted on bulletin boards, but if a complaint is made and the ISP does nothing about it, the company can now be held liable,'

'This case is going to have a chilling effect on free speech on the Internet.'




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Date: Tues, Apr 04, 2000 at 04:30:33 (GMT)
From: slave
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: only in britian
Message:
Not elsewhere
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Date: Fri, Mar 31, 2000 at 19:58:19 (GMT)
From: Reuters News Desk
Email: miami.newsroom@reuters.com
To: Everyone
Subject: Underground Guru Surfaces for Cash from Faithful
Message:

Reuters News Desk


Anyone who would like to begin trying to get some of this story in the press might find the above email address useful.

This Guru seems to have escaped the watchful eye of the press.

It may be timely to have the investigation begin now because of the Uganda cult situation.

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Date: Mon, Apr 03, 2000 at 21:19:53 (GMT)
From: a.p.
Email: None
To: Reuters News Desk
Subject: Underground Guru Surfaces for Cash from Faithful
Message:
There is an event planned for May 4 in Miami Somewhere. I'll forward further info when get it.
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Date: Sat, Apr 01, 2000 at 06:05:09 (GMT)
From: Zelda
Email: None
To: Reuters News Desk
Subject: Please write text and we will get it to press
Message:
Suggestion

We could use a couple of generic press releases. One of M recent activitys and also mentioning the 'disgruntled followers 'chatting' on the forum.-- and one with his speaking engagements, and maybe his fancy toys listed and the new improved donations systems.

just a thought

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Date: Sat, Apr 01, 2000 at 16:07:47 (GMT)
From: Reuters
Email: None
To: Zelda
Subject: starter text....some ideas...need help
Message:
The cult phenomena has become deadly once again. Even cult leaders in this country can remain invisible for years while acquiring millions of dollars and thousands of followers. One such example is the boy guru once named Guru Maharaji. Tracking his aliases and financial holdings has become the task of several of his former followers. In their efforts to break the psychological domination they have gone on line to work with each other and provide a forum for other potential cult victims to find the larger picture. http://www.ex-premie.org
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Date: Sat, Apr 01, 2000 at 20:42:01 (GMT)
From: Zelda
Email: None
To: Reuters
Subject: starter text....some ideas...need help
Message:
Seems fine. I am not sure of the word 'deadly' in the first line. Maybe 'sinister' or 'Another cult phenomenon is about to be exposed once again.'
In a followup, a Quote by a spokesperson for the ex's may add the human interest.
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Date: Fri, Mar 31, 2000 at 15:45:04 (GMT)
From: DEJ
Email: dej72@yahoo.com
To: Everyone
Subject: Hecht and Associates
Message:
Does anyone know of a link between Hecht and Associates and the Maharaji?
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Date: Fri, Mar 31, 2000 at 16:55:51 (GMT)
From: Joey
Email: None
To: DEJ
Subject: Hecht and Associates
Message:
It might be useful if you let us know a little more about Hecht and Associates.

What kind of company/organization are they?

Are premies involved?

If not, why do you suspect that there might be a relatiopnship with m?

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Date: Sat, Apr 01, 2000 at 05:26:11 (GMT)
From: webspider
Email: None
To: Joey
Subject: Hecht and Associates
Message:
http://www.gylanix.com/about_us_founders.htm

excerpt:

'Madeline Ross....studied Leadership, Entrepreneurship, Innovation and Power for five years with Hecht and Associates.'

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Date: Sat, Apr 01, 2000 at 05:49:27 (GMT)
From: Joey
Email: None
To: webspider
Subject: Hecht and Associates
Message:
So? Why would that necessarily connect Hecht and Associates to m?
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Date: Fri, Mar 31, 2000 at 11:21:22 (GMT)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Being Lord of the Universe
Message:
The following is an extract from an question and answer session given by Guru Maharaj Ji in Portland, Oregan, June 29 1972 printed in Elan Vital magazine Volume II Issue 2, Summer 1978:-

Guru Maharaj Ji, what does it feel like to be Lord of the universe?

What should I tell you about it?

Just what it's like.

What it's like? Nothing. Because you are not in yourself; somewhere else; one with someone else.

How is it to be like a puppet?

You don't know.... Do you? When you become Lord of the Universe, you become a puppet, really! Nothing else; not 'you'. Not 'I', not 'you' no egos, no pride, nothing else. One with humbleness; servant. Very, very beautiful. Always in divine bliss. Creating your own environment - wherever you go, doesn't matter. Like my friends used to play and I used to sit right in the corner of my ground and meditate (laughter).

She wants to change places with me! I wish I could change places with everyone, and give one hour of experience to everyone! But it's not possible.

So there you have it. Openly discussing what it's like to be Lord of the Universe, and premies wander why we got this crazy idea he was Lord of the Universe.

John.

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Date: Sat, Apr 01, 2000 at 12:31:09 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Sounds more like 'Being John Malkovich' (nt)
Message:
Sounds more like 'Being John Malkovich' (nt)
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Date: Fri, Mar 31, 2000 at 16:07:21 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Don't knock it until you've tried it. (nt)
Message:
no tea!
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Date: Fri, Mar 31, 2000 at 15:14:14 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Thanks, my page has been updated !!
Message:
Thank you for this excellent stuff !

More of that kind welcome ....

I've just updated my page where

Maharaji (never) said He's God.

I know that's pretty much embarrassing.....

But what about Darshan and Holy Breath ?

By the way: does anybody recall the 'official' explanation of what 'Holy Breath' is?

From what I recall: you're supposed to receive it only once, preferably as soon as possible after you've received knowledge.
I heard once it means that he accepts you as his disciple?
I'm not very satisfied with this, and I'd like to add some explanation under the picture.

Anybody ? Any clue?

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Date: Sun, Apr 02, 2000 at 04:44:16 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: 'Holy Breath'
Message:
Regarding 'Holy Breath':

you're supposed to receive it only once, preferably as soon as possible after you've received knowledge. I heard once it means that he accepts you as his disciple?

That's the way I remember it. Thin mann remembers the left hand, I remember it being the right hand to your right ear. He would put his hand up beside his mouth and pretend to be blowing 'Holy Breath', he would move his hand as if it were knocked back by the 'Holy Breath', or maybe that was to help guide that 'Holy Breath' your way, or something or other. It all seemed very mysterious. I 'received' it three times. Nothing happened so I figured he must have missed, so I asked again twice. I finally gave up.

I wonder what the background of this is, if any?

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Date: Sun, Apr 02, 2000 at 15:27:23 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: G
Subject: Yes, that and the tooth fairy -- two great mysteri
Message:
ies of all time!

But it was definitely the right ear. Right hand, right ear. Not sure what they use the left for in India but it sure ain't Holy Breath.

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Date: Sun, Apr 02, 2000 at 17:13:59 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: 'Holy Breath'
Message:
I tried doing a search on the background of this ritual, found nothing.

They said 'It means that he accepts you as his disciple.' One strange thing about that idea is that he didn't even know most of us. I would bet that at least one person who didn't 'receive Knowledge' put their hand up and he blew 'Holy Breath' into their ear. Actually, he was just blowing smoke.

What is very telling is that this ritual was (and is?) used to symbolize this. It's like saying this stranger is the source of my life. It's an act of submission, showing that you buy into this weird idea. The bait is that he 'gives' 'Holy Breath'.

I think 'Holy Breath' and the hyping of breath meditation both have to do with the idea that the breath IS life. Prem Rawat has alluded to this concept more than once. For example, 'the significance of that first waaaa', speaking about his daughter's birth. Even now, on the Elan Vital 'Perspectives' page, someone wrote 'The air around you thickens with opportunity.'

Breathing is required for human life. From that, people got the idea that breath IS life, I read that people really believed (and still believe?) this literally. I can see how people, without thinking much about it and without knowing much, would think that.

Breathing feels good, it feels much better than not breathing. Being aware of the breath can at times be used as a device to calm down. Of course, Rawat would hate it being described that way; he said 'If you want to calm down, go sit on a block of ice!' He shouted that in a very uncalm manner. Instead of leaving well enough alone, all this conceptual crap is added on. After all, if 'all it is' is to calm down, then how is he going to get money and adoration? He wants to make 'calm down' seem just too 'mundane', 'peace of mind' just too down-to-earth. Another concept is that being aware of the breath IS the good feeling, or at least the source of the good feeling, rather than a trigger of the good feeling, or just a device.

I see the same thing with stretching. Stretching, which in itself can be beneficial, gets turned into 'Hatha Yoga'. Stretching then is not viewed just as stretching anymore. In 'Hatha Yoga', some of the stretching exercises are even harmful. I remember being at a class, the instructor was fanatical, he wanted it to hurt. Oh no, let's not enjoy ourselves, make it hurt. Fanaticism sucks.

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Date: Sun, Apr 02, 2000 at 18:53:03 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: G
Subject: 'Holy Breath'/virgin impregnation?
Message:
Maybe cq or bloodboils (or someone with a Catholic background) is more up on this. Isn't that the way Mary was supposed to have been impregnated by 'God' - through the ear? Could be some correspondence there.

(Love Hatha Yoga, it makes me feel great and has done great things for my body! Too bad you haven't had a better experience of it - yes, fanaticism sucks)

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Date: Tues, Apr 04, 2000 at 20:17:22 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Stonor
Subject: 'Holy Breath'/virgin impregnation?
Message:
'Maybe cq or bloodboils (or someone with a Catholic background) is more up on this.'

Catholic background?

Pas moi, cherie,

I got 'holy breath' in Copenhagen, early-to-mid 70's, - and virgin though I was (at the time) I didn't get pregnant. Looked as though M was really fucked off though...

I later tried a similar technique on my girlfriend's vagina. And got well and truly told off (can it really be fatal?)

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Date: Tues, Apr 04, 2000 at 21:08:13 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: Blow in my ear . . .
Message:
Hi cq,

I was referring to your interesting research on some of these topics - note: or someone with a Catholic background. I don't think that refers to either of you, or I would have written 'or someone else with a Catholic background.'

Here's another possibility:

M heard the expression 'Blow in my ear and I'll follow you anywhere.'

Can what really be fatal? (And NO I don't really want to know what you tried on your girlfriend's vagina.)

You know cq, without you, there really wouldn't be much levity here!

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Date: Sun, Apr 02, 2000 at 19:54:21 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: Stonor
Subject: Hatha Yoga, breath, exercise
Message:
Stonor responded:
Maybe cq or bloodboils (or someone with a Catholic background) is more up on this. Isn't that the way Mary was supposed to have been impregnated by 'God' - through the ear? Could be some correspondence there.

(Love Hatha Yoga, it makes me feel great and has done great things for my body! Too bad you haven't had a better experience of it - yes, fanaticism sucks)

I had a very good experience of Hatha Yoga. I was just saying that, for some people really into it, there is a conceptual framework put on top of the stretching, the breathing, and the good experience that results, that some get fanatical about it. Some go to the extreme of contorting their body in an effort to know the Atman, the Brahman, or whatever.

Actually, I should probably get back into it. I stopped when I 'received Knowledge'. It was when I was doing Hatha Yoga regularly that I started doing the revised 'Word' technique or breath technique, now called the 3rd technique. In fact, it had more of an effect on me then when I imagined my breath helping to calm my body. It worked, and I wasn't doing a 'so hung' mantra on top of it (that's the way the 'Word' technique was taught to me). So really, I was taking a step backwards when I learned that technique. And Rawat thinks I should be grateful to him.

It's amazing how much Rawat ignores the importance of the body. He has never encouraged exercise or physical relaxation. In fact, by this omission, he has discouraged it. The premie mind-set often has been to just do what he says; he hasn't 'given permission' to do exercise. The attitude is that's earthly low-consciousness stuff, the body is unreal, all this is a total illusion, that kind of thinking. If my body is tense, just ignore it, who cares, just go into a zombie-like state.

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Date: Sun, Apr 02, 2000 at 21:41:55 (GMT)
From: Runamok
Email: None
To: G
Subject: Hatha Yoga, breath, exercise
Message:
Aside from one-nostril breathing, breath of fire and other breathing exercises, it's standard to hollow your throat slightly during hatha yoga practice (to get that sound that all the premies in the room are either sleeping or meditating). That enhances the sound of the breath and makes it easier to follow. It's the difference in sound between the in-breath and the out-breath, not the superimposition of the 'mahamantra' that's important.

Supposedly M is more hands on with his knowledge sessions now, but the descriptions of him taking smoking breaks (or more strictly the accurate description of him not staying in the room) don't exactly paint a picture of a teacher able to convey physical realities of the meditation state.

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Date: Sun, Apr 02, 2000 at 17:34:37 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: G
Subject: The Man who Spoke to Cult Members
Message:
What was that Robert Redford film? The Horse Whisperer?
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Date: Sun, Apr 02, 2000 at 18:15:51 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: The Horse Whisperer
Message:
Good one.

I saw 'The Horse Whisperer', it's an intense movie. I take it you also saw it. I was thinking before about how it relates, but not related to 'Holy Breath'. The 'Nobody put a gun to your head.' excuse is simply saying that he didn't use the physical force approach to domestication.

Now this movie 'The Man who Spoke to Cult Members', what would a good subtitle be, maybe 'as domestic animals' or 'lessons in getting people to submit'?

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Date: Sat, Apr 01, 2000 at 18:56:03 (GMT)
From: thin mann
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Thanks, my page has been updated !!
Message:
something more when you went for your first darshan to get the holy breath you will place tour left hand at your ear that way maharajji knew that you was a new premie and then he hopefully gave you the holy breath he allways did
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Date: Fri, Mar 31, 2000 at 19:10:25 (GMT)
From: thinn mann
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Thanks, my page has been updated !!
Message:
i remember that getting holy breath was marajjis way to accept you as his disciple
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Date: Fri, Mar 31, 2000 at 13:08:30 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Being Lord of the Universe is schizophrenic?
Message:
He is, and makes other people IMO .....
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Date: Fri, Mar 31, 2000 at 10:02:35 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Rawat's problem with His Divinity
Message:
Some interesting stuff Rawat said recently.

One participant on the French Forum
(Jean-paul -:- les 5 étapes menant au salut -:- Jeu, Mar 30, 2000 à 13:07:30 °
relates how he recently went to an aspirants video event to see how Rawat's indoctrination works.
He talks about the different steps in his discourse,
and how at one point Rawat says how you have to

'have to make this experience available for the other persons to know.
If you live something nice, why not tell it to others. And in order to do that, you don't have to place yourself in a position of superiority. If you do so, that mean you're doing it to reassure yourself, because this is an absurd position, which only shows how much you don't trust and value yourself.'

I found this very funny. It looks like Rawat is talking about HIS OWN problem !
Maybe that's the whole purpose of his amateur's seminars: help premies (and himself) feeling comfortable with their sociopaths' neurosis.
He is the LOTU, doesn't feel comfortable about it, the premies consider him as non-human and don't feel comfortable about it.

Let's get together and feel comfortable about it!

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Date: Fri, Mar 31, 2000 at 17:14:53 (GMT)
From: Joey
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: thanks for saving me a whole lotta money!!
Message:
I was thinking that I'd just have to fork over the $5000 (US) (that's almost $7700 Canadian !!!) to get to the bottom of what these seminars all about :)

But I think this sums it up quite well for me:

Maybe that's the whole purpose of his amateur's seminars: help premies (and himself) feeling comfortable with their sociopaths' neurosis.
He is the LOTU, doesn't feel comfortable about it, the premies consider him as non-human and don't feel comfortable about it.

Let's get together and feel comfortable about it!

Great perspective JM, and so very well stated!

Thanks.

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Date: Fri, Mar 31, 2000 at 06:46:58 (GMT)
From: Hugh
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: 'Best Of' Pauline Premie's Diary
Message:
How about 'The Life & Times of Pauline Premie' or 'Pauline Premie's Diary?' She's a hoot! It does us premies a power of good to laugh at ourselves.

Thanks to the search engine now in place I had a really good laugh looking at all her entries - I'm still bellylaughing hahahahaha!!

Hugh

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Date: Fri, Mar 31, 2000 at 18:20:37 (GMT)
From: Pauline Premie
Email: None
To: Hugh
Subject: You Don't Sound Like A Premie To Me
Message:
This isn't funny, Hugh. This is deadly serious and perhaps you should pay attention to what I have been trying to say. I can't believe you are really a premie to be laughing at the things I have been saying to these ex-premies. You better go to a participation meeting, listen to some more videos, and perhaps request a meeting with Belkis or another instructor. You are lacking in understanding and that's very dangerous. You could become like one of these miserable ex-premies if you aren't eternally vigilant of what your vampire mind can do to you.

I will pray to Maharaji that you get that understanding.

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Date: Fri, Mar 31, 2000 at 09:25:13 (GMT)
From: Dave
Email: vpost3@hotmail.com
To: Hugh
Subject: 'Best Of' Pauline Premie's Diary
Message:
I'm glad you've found the search engine helpful. I am curious about one thing; as a premie, what do you think about the various ex-premie web sites?

Do you find them offensive or simply irrelevant?

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Date: Fri, Mar 31, 2000 at 11:44:02 (GMT)
From: Stapler
Email: None
To: Dave
Subject: where are Premie Paulines diaries
Message:
Please let me also know where Paulines diaries are
She makes funny entries.
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Date: Fri, Mar 31, 2000 at 13:03:34 (GMT)
From: Dave
Email: None
To: Stapler
Subject: where are Premie Paulines diaries
Message:
You need to go to the Search the forum archives page and do a search on Pauline. That will bring up a load of Pauline Premie's posts.

I have now uploaded and indexed over half of the forum archives. I should have finished doing all the archives by Easter.

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Date: Sat, Apr 01, 2000 at 05:02:31 (GMT)
From: Hugh
Email: None
To: Dave
Subject: where are Premie Paulines diaries
Message:
Dear Dave,

Thanks for the search engine. I think they are very funny. I don't think they are irrelevant or irreverant. I think it's good for us to have a good laugh at ourselves - premies or non/expremies.

I would like a book of them.

Hugh

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Date: Sat, Apr 01, 2000 at 13:31:30 (GMT)
From: Dave
Email: vpost3@hotmail.com
To: Hugh
Subject: where are Premie Paulines diaries
Message:
That's good. I think you are in the majority amongst premies - i.e. not aggresive or condemning of people who no longer go with Maharaji. I think the aggresive or preacher type of premies who post here are the minority.

I found out the other day that some people who I used to know back in the mid seventies, in Coventry, still go to programs to see Maharaji or videos. The strange thing is, when I knew these people I was in an ashram and they were not.

I think there is a correlation between the intensity of one's devotion to Maharaji during the seventies and the ex-premieness that is experienced now.

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Date: Fri, Mar 31, 2000 at 03:08:08 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Most Repetitive Buzzword award goes to Prem Rawat
Message:
And the 'Most Repetitive and Dense Use of a Single Buzzword' award goes to Prem Rawat for his use of 'excellence' during his performance in 'Barcelona Morning Event'. Below is most of the excerpt:
-------------------------------------------------

From my experience, excellence deserves excellence.
There has to be excellence, because that is what attracts
excellence. I have tried to do certain things and I have
said, 'Well, maybe I can do them in a really excellent
way,' but I did not succeed. For instance, checking the
oil in the car. I was actually thinking about that one day.
Just looking at the dip stick and saying, 'I wonder if this
can be done any better.' And I realized that even if I
could do it any better—even if I invented a way to do it
better, would it be worth it? And my conclusion was, no,
it would not be worth it.

What is it then, that I can do in my life that requires
excellence? I know so many people get caught in what
they do. And the mundane grind goes on. Somebody
comes along and says, 'Excellence,' and our ears perk
up. 'Wow. Excellence. I like that idea.' And we hear
these inspirational lectures: 'We should be inspired to do
everything with a lot of excellence.'

Yet, something requires excellence which attracts
excellence from within us. And believe me, there is not
too much out there that does. There is not too much out
there that can. But, there is an opportunity to do
something in this life that is worthwhile. Worthwhile
from the heart and worthwhile because you want to do it.
...

What is the power that can transform you? There is a
commitment and there is an excellence, and to pursue
that. This Knowledge is not limited to—and doesn't have
to be limited to—just sitting in a room. One of the aspects
of Knowledge is something that can inspire me to be
conscious, to be aware: What is it that you are doing in
your life? Where is this life going? Where is this time
going? Where is this attention of yours going?
...

Excellence comes from a very sincere place.Excellence
cannot be taught. Nobody can teach you excellence.
Nobody can put excellence in a formula and say, 'This is
what excellence means.' You have to be inspired.

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Date: Sun, Apr 02, 2000 at 20:15:19 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Most Repetitive Buzzword award - revised wording
Message:
And the 'Most Repetitive and Dense Use of a Single Buzzword' award goes to Prem Rawat for his use of 'excellence' during his portrayal of 'Maharaji' in 'Barcelona Morning Event'.
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Date: Fri, Mar 31, 2000 at 06:44:22 (GMT)
From: hamzen
Email: ham@hamzen.freeserve.co.uk
To: G
Subject: Just reading Tom Peters is he, gm is always so
Message:
slow at picking up social memes, or is it the organizational consultants he's hanging around with now.

By the way g, thanks for all those links from the thread below, a lot of reading for me this weekend and I will answer your last post since you did ask some questions, maybe over the weekend when no-one is around, or by e-mail. Personally I don't see the science stuff as off-topic, but I accept that that is a minority view

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Date: Sun, Apr 02, 2000 at 20:19:05 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: hamzen
Subject: Maybe he saw 'Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure'
Message:
Excellent, dude!
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Date: Fri, Mar 31, 2000 at 03:14:07 (GMT)
From: bloodboils
Email: None
To: G
Subject: Excellent post
Message:
Maharaj Ji--eat my shorts
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