Forum V: Archive
Compiled: Tues, Apr 18, 2000 at 09:39:48 (GMT)
From: Apr 5, 2000 To: Apr 14, 2000 Page: 3 Of: 5


gerry -:- this isn't working for me... -:- Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 01:34:15 (GMT)
__ Forum Administrator -:- this isn't working for me... -:- Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 01:49:40 (GMT)
__ __ Gerry -:- this isn't working for me... -:- Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 01:59:05 (GMT)
__ __ __ Runamok -:- fa please read -:- Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 03:36:44 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ G -:- sorry to butt in but -:- Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 03:56:31 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ G -:- not fair, especially when it's false (nt) -:- Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 03:59:08 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Runamok -:- G -:- Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 04:22:02 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- Can you look yourself in the eyes in a mirror and -:- Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 04:51:38 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Dave -:- That's not good enough, Gerry -:- Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 05:30:12 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Diamond Gerry -:- Kinder, Gentler me -:- Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 05:47:09 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Runamok -:- Kinder, Gentler Coverup -:- Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 05:58:30 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- Runamok, Hero of the Downtrodden -:- Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 06:16:49 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ sexless old nun -:- chin hairs -:- Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 15:04:41 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Runamok -:- Can you look yourself in the eyes in a mirror and -:- Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 05:17:44 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- Run when did you start dictating to the FA? -:- Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 05:35:28 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Runamok -:- Gerry, just give a little. It won't hurt that much -:- Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 05:41:50 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- Organic brain damage, Run or just a problem with -:- Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 05:58:00 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Runamok -:- this is my final answer, Regis -:- Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 06:15:44 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- Not good enough; there's one more... -:- Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 06:38:17 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ gerry -:- fa please read -:- Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 03:54:38 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Harry -:- fa please read -:- Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 04:31:17 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Gerry -:- Harry you really know how to hurt a guy... -:- Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 05:04:42 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Harry -:- Good luck. Don't let Patty catch ya. -:- Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 06:25:40 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Dave -:- The worse it gets, the better it gets -:- Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 11:51:59 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Harry -:- Fly like a vulture. -:- Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 12:15:41 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- I wish, Harry I wish... -:- Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 06:43:47 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Harry -:- A steady eye and nerves of steel -:- Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 06:55:58 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- The right stuff -:- Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 07:12:36 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Harry -:- Ahhhh, communing with Nature. -:- Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 08:52:42 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Mike -:- THAT was an ELK, silly -:- Mon, Apr 10, 2000 at 21:47:35 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ The Deer -:- I remember you, Fuckface -:- Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 16:29:11 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Elk-god -:- That's because you know not what you are -:- Mon, Apr 10, 2000 at 21:52:52 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ The Sapling -:- I'm the sapling you ate for lunch arsehole -:- Sun, Apr 09, 2000 at 03:43:12 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Elk-god -:- Elk don't eat saplings -:- Mon, Apr 10, 2000 at 22:40:44 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Dave -:- That sinking feeling -:- Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 05:20:36 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Harry -:- That sinking feeling -:- Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 06:30:52 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Stonor -:- Dart board stock investment says: -:- Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 06:23:50 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Runamok -:- fa please read -:- Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 04:35:16 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- You are soooo clever, Runny -:- Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 05:07:25 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Runamok -:- herry gerry -:- Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 05:18:49 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- herry gerry -:- Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 05:24:42 (GMT)

Award Presenter -:- Award of the day -:- Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 01:16:09 (GMT)
__ AJW -:- Award of the day -:- Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 08:45:23 (GMT)
__ __ Selene -:- Award of THIS day -:- Sun, Apr 09, 2000 at 04:14:20 (GMT)
__ Selene -:- can't argue with you -:- Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 03:01:35 (GMT)

La-ex -:- Thanks Michael, please see post below.... -:- Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 00:30:45 (GMT)

La-ex -:- Thanks for responding, one last question.... -:- Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 00:24:06 (GMT)
__ JW -:- Thanks for the hearfelt suggestion... -:- Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 18:41:53 (GMT)
__ Anarchist -:- But what would be the point -:- Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 04:16:04 (GMT)
__ Joey -:- And thank you Ex-Lax!! -:- Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 02:59:40 (GMT)
__ __ gerry -:- And thank you Ex-Lax!! Hey joey, that's my line !! -:- Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 03:19:09 (GMT)
__ __ __ Joey -:- Well next time get a copyright! -:- Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 04:19:32 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ gErRy (tm) -:- Jeez Joey, get a lawyer... -:- Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 05:19:56 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Joey -:- Trust me Gerry, I've already got one :) NT -:- Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 08:18:16 (GMT)

G -:- effective mind-control deterrent?? -:- Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 00:19:24 (GMT)
__ cq -:- if only Gurdjieff had known ... -:- Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 15:52:40 (GMT)
__ A.P. -:- very Funny I Ordered 2 (nt) -:- Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 13:08:02 (GMT)
__ Mike -:- Funny, but lest someone take it seriously -:- Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 00:35:40 (GMT)
__ blood boils -:- love it (nt) -:- Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 00:26:36 (GMT)

JW -:- The Ashram Experiment and Why It Dogs M -:- Fri, Apr 07, 2000 at 21:47:05 (GMT)
__ cq -:- The Ashram Experiment and Why It Dogs M -:- Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 16:13:30 (GMT)
__ Bjørn -:- The Ashram close down in Norway -:- Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 08:37:47 (GMT)
__ __ cq -:- close down in Norway -:- Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 16:22:14 (GMT)
__ __ __ Bjørn -:- Someone needs a course -:- Sun, Apr 09, 2000 at 08:41:08 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ cq -:- Improve these skills, Bjorn yesterday ... -:- Mon, Apr 10, 2000 at 18:03:53 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Bjørn -:- Hope you ar not into the habit of smacking cq -:- Mon, Apr 10, 2000 at 20:07:15 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Hal -:- You really need smacking dreamer -:- Mon, Apr 10, 2000 at 22:51:22 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ G -:- Back up your allegations, go ahead, -:- Mon, Apr 10, 2000 at 21:30:17 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ G -:- the ashram and jobs -:- Sun, Apr 09, 2000 at 23:33:03 (GMT)
__ __ __ Hugh -:- close down in Norway -:- Sun, Apr 09, 2000 at 06:26:50 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ cq -:- memories of Auld Reekie -:- Mon, Apr 10, 2000 at 12:24:45 (GMT)
__ __ __ cq -:- apologies to housemothers and secretaries (nt) -:- Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 16:25:57 (GMT)
__ __ G -:- Blame the victim -:- Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 13:32:28 (GMT)
__ Mike -:- Outstanding post, Joe AND G. -:- Fri, Apr 07, 2000 at 22:25:17 (GMT)
__ __ gErRy -:- Excuse, Mike? Soldiers don't cry... -:- Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 02:53:00 (GMT)
__ __ __ Mike -:- Bet me..... he he he :-) -:- Mon, Apr 10, 2000 at 15:06:35 (GMT)
__ JW -:- A Note On Ashram Debts..... -:- Fri, Apr 07, 2000 at 21:58:29 (GMT)
__ __ ex-mug -:- A Note On Ashram Debts..... -:- Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 10:24:11 (GMT)
__ __ G -:- A Note On Ashram Debts..... -:- Fri, Apr 07, 2000 at 22:37:31 (GMT)
__ __ __ gerry -:- Hey I just remembered... -:- Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 02:10:05 (GMT)
__ __ __ JW -:- Was it in the form or credit card debt? -:- Fri, Apr 07, 2000 at 22:44:13 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ G -:- credit card debt -:- Fri, Apr 07, 2000 at 23:02:51 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ JW -:- No Counseling -:- Fri, Apr 07, 2000 at 23:45:17 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ JW -:- Also... -:- Fri, Apr 07, 2000 at 23:29:16 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ G -:- Also... -:- Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 01:14:15 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ JW -:- Also... -:- Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 02:35:38 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ G -:- Also... -:- Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 02:58:03 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Mike -:- As stupid as this may actually sound -:- Fri, Apr 07, 2000 at 23:26:58 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ JW -:- credit card debt -:- Fri, Apr 07, 2000 at 23:26:41 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Daneane -:- Some questions -:- Fri, Apr 07, 2000 at 23:47:04 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ A.P. -:- Some questions -:- Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 13:04:18 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ JW -:- Ashram 'skills.' -:- Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 14:52:47 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Susan -:- DECA skills.... -:- Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 16:03:19 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ JW -:- DECA skills.... -:- Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 17:25:48 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Susan -:- DECA skills.... -:- Sun, Apr 09, 2000 at 03:23:37 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ JW -:- Donations to Maharaji -:- Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 02:27:20 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ JHB -:- Your were lucky!!! -:- Sun, Apr 09, 2000 at 23:48:33 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Daneane -:- 'Donations'?! -:- Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 02:34:43 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ JW -:- Sure -:- Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 02:39:40 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ G -:- personal dough -:- Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 01:36:52 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Daneane -:- personal dough -:- Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 01:46:16 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ G -:- personal dough -:- Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 02:09:21 (GMT)

Joey -:- Hey Mike....any good investment tips? -:- Fri, Apr 07, 2000 at 21:35:37 (GMT)
__ Joey -:- clarification for Mike, apology for Ham -:- Fri, Apr 07, 2000 at 21:59:05 (GMT)
__ __ ham -:- No sweat Joey :) ! -:- Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 19:06:54 (GMT)
__ __ Mike -:- I'm a guy..... no problem -:- Fri, Apr 07, 2000 at 23:07:08 (GMT)
__ __ __ Joey -:- 'I'm a guy..... no problem'....don't be so sure :) -:- Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 08:11:08 (GMT)
__ __ __ Stonor -:- I'm another human being..... no problem!??!!! (nt) -:- Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 04:22:34 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Joey -:- Stonor, I wasn't poking fun at you... -:- Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 04:35:06 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Joey -:- Actually, this is what I meant... -:- Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 04:42:45 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Stonor -:- as clear as mud -:- Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 04:46:37 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Stonor -:- It wasn't fun being called a liar -:- Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 04:40:25 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Joey -:- It wasn't fun being called a liar -:- Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 04:48:18 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Stonor -:- It wasn't fun being called a liar -:- Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 05:04:25 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Joey -:- Good nite Stonor -:- Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 05:18:02 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Stonor -:- Fine lines obscured by reaction? -:- Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 06:10:00 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Joey -:- Get a life Stonor -:- Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 06:33:05 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Stonor -:- It wasn't fun being called a liar -:- Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 04:44:32 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Joey -:- Stonor...try to chill a little -:- Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 04:57:28 (GMT)

Lacaille -:- Please get in touch with me. -:- Fri, Apr 07, 2000 at 21:02:07 (GMT)
__ Joey -:- Just let me know where I should or shouldn't touch -:- Fri, Apr 07, 2000 at 22:15:35 (GMT)

Brandy -:- We only want to hear what we want to hear -:- Fri, Apr 07, 2000 at 20:58:16 (GMT)
__ Jim -:- Oh, you can say that again! -:- Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 00:58:17 (GMT)
__ Gregg -:- I heard Michael loud and clear, and I hear you too -:- Fri, Apr 07, 2000 at 21:35:33 (GMT)
__ Monmot -:- We only want to hear what we want to hear -:- Fri, Apr 07, 2000 at 21:15:33 (GMT)
__ Mike -:- Why don't you go get a brandy, Brandy? -:- Fri, Apr 07, 2000 at 21:08:32 (GMT)
__ Selene -:- We only want to hear what we want to hear -:- Fri, Apr 07, 2000 at 21:04:40 (GMT)

Jim -:- And yet ANOTHER question for Dettmers! -:- Fri, Apr 07, 2000 at 20:19:32 (GMT)
__ Jim -:- clarification -:- Fri, Apr 07, 2000 at 20:28:09 (GMT)

Jean-Michel -:- Become immune from destruction by atomic energy! -:- Fri, Apr 07, 2000 at 16:35:07 (GMT)
__ Scott T. -:- Become immune from destruction by atomic energy! -:- Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 08:56:08 (GMT)

I took the liberty of -:- moving this question up...for Dettmers from Nigel -:- Fri, Apr 07, 2000 at 15:40:18 (GMT)
__ Lacaille -:- Micheal, you aren't honest -:- Fri, Apr 07, 2000 at 20:20:39 (GMT)
__ __ Monmot -:- I Don't Think It's Necessary To Attack M.D. (nt) -:- Fri, Apr 07, 2000 at 21:04:02 (GMT)
__ __ cq -:- Lacaille, you're only frightening him away (nt) -:- Fri, Apr 07, 2000 at 20:33:32 (GMT)
__ __ __ Lacaille -:- Lacaille, you're only frightening him away (nt) -:- Fri, Apr 07, 2000 at 21:20:34 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Observer -:- The anger of thousands! -:- Fri, Apr 07, 2000 at 23:18:00 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Joey -:- and the stupidity of one asshole! -:- Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 02:08:37 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ selene -:- and the stupidity of one asshole! -:- Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 03:53:36 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Joey -:- and the stupidity of one asshole! -:- Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 04:27:26 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- and the stupidity of one asshole! -:- Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 04:40:39 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- only said that because I am paranoid -:- Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 04:43:12 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Joey -:- Oh Selenie!! -:- Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 05:14:25 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Sekene -:- Oh Selenie!! -:- Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 05:28:12 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Stonor -:- Good morning Selene! -:- Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 14:27:05 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- Good morning Stoner! -:- Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 18:15:10 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- Yoohoo, Seleeeeeeene..... -:- Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 18:26:22 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- Yoohoo, Geeeeeerrrrryyyy..... -:- Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 18:59:00 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Joey -:- Oh Selenie!! -:- Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 05:38:16 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- that was selene not sekene -:- Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 05:31:22 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Joey -:- that was selene not sekene -:- Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 05:46:20 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- now Joey -:- Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 05:54:15 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Joey -:- I'm so misunderstood! -:- Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 06:10:56 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- mispelling vs. 2 seconds ???? -:- Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 06:21:15 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Joey -:- mispelling vs. 2 seconds ???? -:- Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 06:42:32 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- yeah he just says fuck you selene for fun -:- Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 06:59:59 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Joey -:- well, you know what you should say to Gerry then.. -:- Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 07:16:47 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Observer -:- Poor Joey -:- Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 10:02:42 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Joey -:- Poor Observer -:- Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 10:15:48 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- men!!!! you're a big help. -:- Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 07:24:23 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Joey -:- Women! Can't live with'em...can't live without'em -:- Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 07:43:00 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Joey -:- Lacaille, you're only frightening him away (nt) -:- Fri, Apr 07, 2000 at 22:32:48 (GMT)

David -:- New messages on The Great Worldwide Linkup -:- Fri, Apr 07, 2000 at 12:12:17 (GMT)
__ Katie -:- Testimonial for the GWW Link-Up -:- Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 15:56:08 (GMT)

Jim -:- Lewis Carrol watch out! -:- Fri, Apr 07, 2000 at 07:52:29 (GMT)
__ Mike -:- What, did this guy smoke opium? -:- Fri, Apr 07, 2000 at 15:28:29 (GMT)
__ __ Jerry -:- He's gotta be high on something! -:- Fri, Apr 07, 2000 at 17:50:52 (GMT)
__ __ __ Mike -:- Faking it is the most likely answer -:- Fri, Apr 07, 2000 at 18:58:20 (GMT)
__ Scott T. -:- 'K' stands for 'key magnet' -:- Fri, Apr 07, 2000 at 15:03:57 (GMT)
__ __ JW -:- Yes, a magnet, or one of those 'beepers' that... -:- Fri, Apr 07, 2000 at 17:16:14 (GMT)
__ __ Mike -:- BWAH HA HA HA HA HA HA -:- Fri, Apr 07, 2000 at 15:30:00 (GMT)
__ G -:- a few revised words -:- Fri, Apr 07, 2000 at 11:12:02 (GMT)
__ __ G -:- 'the wonder forest' -:- Fri, Apr 07, 2000 at 17:43:51 (GMT)
__ __ Susan -:- Lovely poem, send to ELK! (nt) -:- Fri, Apr 07, 2000 at 15:35:25 (GMT)
__ __ __ Vinny Madas -:- Ok, I sent it in as 'Sincerely Happy' (nt) -:- Fri, Apr 07, 2000 at 19:53:22 (GMT)
__ __ Mike -:- STOP IT, STOP IT..... my tummy hurts -:- Fri, Apr 07, 2000 at 15:32:44 (GMT)
__ __ Jim -:- Well that sure made me laugh -:- Fri, Apr 07, 2000 at 15:26:43 (GMT)
__ __ Way -:- a few revised words -:- Fri, Apr 07, 2000 at 14:33:19 (GMT)
__ __ __ Gregg -:- more Premie Poetry Parody -:- Fri, Apr 07, 2000 at 16:13:30 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Mike -:- AUTHOR, AUTHOR!!!!! -:- Fri, Apr 07, 2000 at 16:35:20 (GMT)


Date: Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 01:34:15 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: this isn't working for me...
Message:
So Runamok accuses me of 'fucking around' with people by e-mail, that I sent a deceptive request (to him) for someone's email address, and that I 'probably' 'could be' the person who has been the one bothering Bjorn with something, e-mail or porn links.

All of which is untrue. And I, in my inimitatable style respond, but the whole thread gets deleted and the accusations made by runamok stand, while I am denied the opportunity to respond.

Now is that fair? I'm gonna keep hammering at this until I get a retraction and an apology from Seth of Houston Texas aka runamok.

And thanks Jim, I tried to repond, but couldn't.

And Runafucker, show your hand, prove your accusations. Provide even the slightest shred of evidence you have. Come on, big mouth, you say you hate these arguments, but you are the one who usually starts them in your passive aggressive limp dick way.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 01:49:40 (GMT)
From: Forum Administrator
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: this isn't working for me...
Message:

Gerry,

The post that could be interpreted as an accusation against you has been edited to remove any possible such interpretation. The accusation about you requesting someone's email address appeared to be sent by Gerry to Gerry and has been deleted.

This thread will also be deleted soon but I thought it would be good if the few people interested in this could read this before it disappears.

Of course, while I'm off-line you can repost everything, but what possible good could that do?

FA

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Date: Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 01:59:05 (GMT)
From: Gerry
Email: None
To: Forum Administrator
Subject: this isn't working for me...
Message:
The accusation about you requesting someone's email address appeared to be sent by Gerry to Gerry and has been deleted.

Thank you. The post to which you are referring was written by Runamok. Why do you feel compelled to delete my fair request for a retraction and apology from that snake in the grass, runamok, aka Seth from Houston Texas?

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 03:36:44 (GMT)
From: Runamok
Email: None
To: Gerry
Subject: fa please read
Message:
Gerry had you said I was wrong in thinking you had sent the emails in the thread where it happened, I would have apologized.

Instead you have distorted what I said. I did not accuse you of anything. I explained an email event which I thought was you fucking with me, and I explained it as my misunderstanding.

I also didn't name you in the original. Very few people would have realised that it might have meant you. The FA seems to have been one of those people. There were several people that it could have been.

FA, I do not want my personal info posted. Unless of course it's relevant that Gerry was a day trader who lost $30,000 dollars in one day (and left day trading). Should I continue?


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Date: Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 03:56:31 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: Runamok
Subject: sorry to butt in but
Message:
Runamok, you said you don't want your personal info posted, then divulge personal info about Gerry, not fair.

Many of these arguments go on way too long. Debating is one thing, arguments are another. I have debates here but I try to keep it somewhat civil. I don't say things simply to piss people off. And when it progresses to a certain point, there is no point in continuing. What's the point in these long drawn-out arguments? And that applies to everyone here. Ok, go ahead and flame me now.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 03:59:08 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: Runamok
Subject: not fair, especially when it's false (nt)
Message:
nt
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 04:22:02 (GMT)
From: Runamok
Email: None
To: G
Subject: G
Message:
Actually Gerr posted some huge fuckyou's which were deleted.

I posted what I posted about Ger in this thread in the hopes that the FA would delete the thread. What should I do, I answered the questions involved several times. Had I been told in the original thread where it took place that I was mistaken I would have apologized, but not to the zillion fuckyous from Ger which have now been deleted.

Most people would not have known that Ger was the person implied in the original post. In fact, only a few people would have known because the FA's are anonymous.

Also, I explained that the misunderstanding was based on an email which I thought was from Gerry, but was not. I stated this several times (altho some of them have been deleted) never claiming that I had been correct in my assumption.

But Ger wants me to defend an assertion I haven't made, and acknowledge accusing him of something I haven't accused him of.

My concern was for the person who was primarily for the person receiving email harassment and did not name Ger as the person responsible.

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Date: Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 04:51:38 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Runamok
Subject: Can you look yourself in the eyes in a mirror and
Message:
Jesus, Seth, are you drunk? I certainly did not post ANY huge 'fuck you's' Some little ones but NO big ones. Where's your accuracy, guy? As for the 'zillions' what can I say. Don't you care about truth?

Did you or did you not infer I was 'probably' the guy harrassing Bjorn with email? Did you or did you not say I tried to get someones email adress from you deceptively? did you or did you not say I have harrassed others here by email?

Christ, all I want is a little accountability and perhaps a meek...'sorry.' It's not the end of the world and I know we don't like each other but this was really low. Your false accusations. Now am I reading you correctly? You didn't mean these things and are mistaken? This is all just a mistake?

Run, I'm feeling a touch magnanimous right now, with you on the ropes so indefensibly, so I'll just ask:

Most people would not have known that Ger was the person implied in the original post. In fact, only a few people would have known because the FA's are anonymous.

Don't you remember when I was Forum Janitor and you were backing me up, I was NOT anonymous, everyone knew who I was but you were as yet unamed. You were chomping at the bit to 'come out' as the assistant. Remember? If you don't this really reflects poorly on your recollection of e-mails, telephone calls, etc. How can anyone deem you credible when you fuck up the most obvious and simple things?

Also, I explained that the misunderstanding was based on an email which I thought was from Gerry, but was not. I stated this several times (altho some of them have been deleted) never claiming that I had been correct in my assumption.

Yes the old 'deletion' defense. No matter. You've smeared me and I asked for anything, any iota of evidence which supports your deceitful smear. Nothing was or is forthcoming, so noone hold your breath, please.

Why can't you make it clear to everyone here that your accusations have no basis in fact and simply say you are sorry. That's all I'm asking. But no, you won't do it. So every time you open you mouth here, I'm gonna jump down it until you do.

My concern was for the person who was primarily for the person receiving email harassment and did not name Ger as the person responsible.

No, but you made it clear that the person who 'could' be responsible 'probably' was the former forum admin, which of course was me. And you intended to leave that impression, did you not?. And as I was not anonymous, other people could easily come away with the idea that I did these shitty things of which you falsely accused me.

I can't really believe you did this all 'mistakenly' without malice. Is that the boat you're trying to float now? Shame on you !!!

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Date: Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 05:30:12 (GMT)
From: Dave
Email: vpost3@hotmail.com
To: gerry
Subject: That's not good enough, Gerry
Message:
I've read through your whole post above and there are no fuck yous, assholes or bastards in it; not even a nincumpoop or a skallywag. All I read is a wet, 'Shame on you' at the end.

This isn't good enough. I expect a better standard of abusive entertainment when I log on to this forum.

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Date: Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 05:47:09 (GMT)
From: Diamond Gerry
Email: None
To: Dave
Subject: Kinder, Gentler me
Message:
Jeesus Dave, the ponies??? Ouch ouch ouch !!! Yeah commodity trading IS a lot like gambling. In fact gambling theory is used a lot when developing trading systems. Of course I've got it all figured out and next time... I can't finish this-- Patty's nearby.

Yup , I need to bone up on my cussing. (Actually you missed it--I called Runamok the C word ( it was deleted) which I swore would never again slip from my fingers onto this sacred screen...ah but what are promises for if not to break. After all I had the 'perfect master,' er, teacher as a guiding light all these years...

More horror stories, more horror stories !!! Makes me feel like I'm not the only fool on the planet. :-)

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Date: Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 05:58:30 (GMT)
From: Runamok
Email: None
To: Diamond Gerry
Subject: Kinder, Gentler Coverup
Message:
You called me a buncha shit, and you've done it a zillion times and you do it a buncha colors in real big letters.

While you're pissed off and then you occasionally calm down.

I don't care that much when you do it to me but you fucking crush people some of the time.

Shouldn't you have to gamble your own feelings a little more to get so uppity and nasty with people.

But nooooooooo it's the HerGer/CrushMachine.

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Date: Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 06:16:49 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Runamok
Subject: Runamok, Hero of the Downtrodden
Message:
You called me a buncha shit, and you've done it a zillion times and you do it a buncha colors in real big letters.

I rarely use colors

While you're pissed off and then you occasionally calm down.

This is not a sentence and it does not compute...


I don't care that much when you do it to me but you fucking crush people some of the time.

You keep saying this but I'm beginning to believe it DOES hurt you. But you bring it on yourself. Why can't you just admit this simple human truth about yourself. It would go far to garner a little sympathy for yourself. You sound like a cold, controlling robot: dead, spiritless. Sorry but that's my impression. And then you go around chastising people like some sexless old nun whose chin hairs are bothering her.

I admit I've steam rolled more people than deserved it. And I've always regretted and usually apologized. Not always, but usually.

Shouldn't you have to gamble your own feelings a little more to get so uppity and nasty with people.

Sorry this doesn't make any sense to me. I'm beginning to get the feeling you're dissembling once again. And I really don't want to push you. You might be on the edge, who knows?

But nooooooooo it's the HerGer/CrushMachine.

Whatever. Where's your retraction and apology? Are you so small you can't do this simple thing?

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Date: Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 15:04:41 (GMT)
From: sexless old nun
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: chin hairs
Message:
Young man,

Do you, by any chance, know of a remedy for this most distressing ailment?

No?

Well, whilst you and Mr Runamok are attempting to settle your differences,(and i refuse to take sides in this), by way of light entertainment, may I offer the following as an interlude:

A NUN AND A PRIEST

A nun and a priest were traveling across the desert and
realized halfway across that the camel they were using for
transportation was about to die. They set up a makeshift
camp, hoping someone would come to their rescue, but to no
avail. Soon the camel died. After several days of not being
rescued, they agreed that they were not going to be rescued.
They prayed a lot (of course), and they discussed their
predicament in great depth.

Finally the priest said to the nun, 'You know, Sister, I am
about to die, and there's always been one thing I've wanted
here on earth -- to see a woman naked. Would you mind
taking off your clothes so I can look at you?'

The nun thought about his request for several seconds and
then agreed to take off her clothes. As she was doing so, she
remarked, 'Well, Father, now that I think about it, I've never
seen a man naked, either. Would you mind taking off your
clothes, too?'

With little hesitation, the priest also stripped. Suddenly the
nun exclaimed, 'Father! What is that little thing hanging
between your legs?' The priest began caressing the nun, and
answered, 'That, my child, is a gift from God. If I put it in
you, it creates a new life.'

'Well,' responded the nun quickly, 'forget about me. Stick it
in the camel!'

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Date: Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 05:17:44 (GMT)
From: Runamok
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Can you look yourself in the eyes in a mirror and
Message:
We definitely have our seemingly irreconcilable differences but I can tell when you are feeling friendly. Some people can't. Some of us are more vulnerable to your vicious verbosity than I am.

I thought it was you, but did not know. The post was such that if, according to my admitted misunderstanding, it had been you, Bjorn would have understood that it was not the FA's of the forum. But I did not post an accusatory post knowing that I could not be sure.

If you had posted in the thread, I would have been apologetic. But that fuckyou stuff really turns me off. Maybe you think it's a game, but blood spills in the real world somewhere right around there.

I am not clear how many FA's have had that box, but there were at least 5 (you, me, the 3 guys now). Were there more? You drew more attention to the possiblity that it was you than I would ever have or meant to.

And if someone actually read the damn post, there was boldfaced if where I wrote it was prob the old webmaster.

I won't go into any more stuff, but you don't always get your own facts straight..

and your temper is kinda quick on the draw to say the least.

You're not real big on apologies yourself, so let's just say perhaps we could talk things out when there's a prob.

FA, delete this shit.

with Cordial Formalities,
Runamok

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Date: Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 05:35:28 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Runamok
Subject: Run when did you start dictating to the FA?
Message:
I'd like the thread to stand.

You did accuse me of three pretty shitty things here and when I asked for proof you had none at all.

You drew more attention to the possiblity that it was you than I would ever have or meant to.

Perhaps this is the case. But perhaps not. The fact remains you accused me of THREE dastardly deeds. You've back off on one. What about the others? And where's my apology? My strategy still stands. The one about getting on your case every time you open your big fat accusatory mouth.

I've apologized for lots of things I've done which were dumb, wrong, or just plain mean. Not all of course, but plenty. How 'bout you? You ever say anything you regret and for which you apologize? Not here. Not that I can recall.

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Date: Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 05:41:50 (GMT)
From: Runamok
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Gerry, just give a little. It won't hurt that much
Message:
I did not accuse you of harassing me via email. I wrote that I thought you had done this. How many times do I have post this.

Let's skip it while we're ahead.

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Date: Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 05:58:00 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Runamok
Subject: Organic brain damage, Run or just a problem with
Message:
the truth?

 I did not accuse you of harassing me via email. I wrote that I thought you had done this. How many times do I have post this.

Let's skip it while we're ahead.

I'm ahead, sucker. You are so full of shit. No where did I say you accused me of harrassing you with email. No matter what you thought. I said you accused me of deceptively trying to obtain someone's email address and you made this accusation right here in plain sight. And lucky for you, your pals deleted it.

You also said (oh excuse me, you though I might, could have, probably, what ever weasel words you want to use, that I WAS HARRASSING OTHER PARTICIPANTS HERE BY EMAIL. I asked for any shred of evidence that this was true. No reply, because YOU HAVE NONE.

So give it up, sucker. The apology and the retraction or I'll dog you the rest of your life on this forum.

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Date: Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 06:15:44 (GMT)
From: Runamok
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: this is my final answer, Regis
Message:
Gerry, here is the email I received, thinking it was you.

From: forumfour@hotmail.com (Forumfour Smith)
To: DJRayovac@aol.com

Hi Run,

I would like to contact (name removed) but he has never given his email address away on FV. Is it possible that you could supply that to me.

FV Admin (anonymous but trustworthy)

Which I assumed was you because I write to the FA's at private addresses. Why would they write me from what I thought was dead box?

So I wrote them back. Here's what I wrote:
From: DJRayovac
To: forumfour@hotmail.com

Ger,
You asked me once never to contact you and I never have until this email.

If you want to talk then do it. Cut the crap otherwise.

If you are F5 admins, send me a personal email.

I never got an email back, so I assumed it was you. Under the circumstances of writing me in an official capacity, they should have written back. They didn't, so I assumed it was you.

I didn't post any accusations, then or now. I incorrectly thought this was you but for valid reasons.

I have never posted trying to convince anyone that you were harassing me via email (altho you do a rather good job of it otherwise).

Your temper not only makes you miss my jokes as you agree (in post 'herry gerry') but helps you miss my sincerity.

Enough. I won't talk about things you have done that made me think it was you.

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Date: Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 06:38:17 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Runamok
Subject: Not good enough; there's one more...
Message:
You did indeed accuse me of sending that email right here on this very forum. Are you denying this? Incredible !!

OK so you've backed off on that one. That's two down and one to go and it's a biggie, in fact the one with which I take most umbrage (is that the right word, sister Mary Elephant?)

YOU ACCUSED ME OF HARRASSING FORUM PARTICIPANTS VIA EMAIL.

This is a low blow. A lot lower than calling some one 'fucker' or 'asshole.' This is a serious accusation and one which you had to know would be exceedingly damaging to me and anyone I may care about having a relationship with (god I hate dangling participles.)

So what about it Runamok? Who did I harrass by email? When? How many times? What did I say? Where's your proof? Oh I forgot--you just thought I might have done this and thought it might be a good thing to mention TO EVERY FUCKING BODY ON THE FORUM !!!

Where's your proof mister mellow rational intellctual composer dickhead? Where?

Pony up with the complete retraction and apology. Do it by email if you wish. No cancel that. Do it publicly. You made the false accusation, slanderous lie really, in public, so dummy up with the goods or expect me to be on your ass with your every post until you do. That's not a threat, it's a promise.

Do it and get it over with, Runamok. I'm sure others are getting good and sick of this as I am but you made these wild and damaging accusations and now you have to pay the price.

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Date: Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 03:54:38 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Runamokaka Seth of Housto
Subject: fa please read
Message:
First of all Funboy, it was Scale Trading commodities and I lost $67,000 over a matter of several months. So much for accuracy in the 'media.' Of course, honesty really isn't your strong suite, now is it?

Or perhaps your memory isn't quite what it should be. Why don't you mention that I told you Jim Heller admits gerbils into his colon on a regular basis. Remember that one? No? You have no credibility.

Now let's see...

1) I harrassed Bjorn through email.
2) I have harrassed others here through email
3) I made a deceptive request for someone's email address through you.

Now which one of these lies would you like to defend? How about just retracting all three and apologizing. Otherwise I will get on your case every time you open your lying passive aggressive mouth here.

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Date: Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 04:31:17 (GMT)
From: Harry
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: fa please read
Message:
Hey Gerry, I've got some spare cash I want to invest. Any ideas?
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Date: Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 05:04:42 (GMT)
From: Gerry
Email: None
To: Harry
Subject: Harry you really know how to hurt a guy...
Message:
The grains look like a good deal right now and cocoa looks way over due for a run to the upside, try www.scaletrader.com

I love to talk about this stuff. I check the markets daily and participate in some discussion groups. I wish I had some money right now, but I'm flat broke but with a few tricks left up my sleeve.

When I first started 'scale trading' I had an incredible string of over 100 consequtive 'wins' in a row which is almost unheard of. I was actually doing this 'intuitive' thing and not scale trading at all, though I thought I was. When I found out what the technique was really all about and applied it, I bombed, big time.

The 'Asian flu' hit hard and the demand for US Ag products dried up. I didn't understand that my method wouldn't work in a bear market. Indeed, I didn't realize (like most everyone else) that we were in the first leg down of many legs down.

But I can't wait to get back into the game...

Gerry the sucker for punishment who stands unjustly accused and defenseless (except for Jim. Thanks bud)

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Date: Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 06:25:40 (GMT)
From: Harry
Email: None
To: Gerry
Subject: Good luck. Don't let Patty catch ya.
Message:
Hey Gerry, I'm thinking of investing via the net. I've been following the markets a bit lately and it looks pretty easy to me. It's like there's a rhythm, like the waves in the sea, to the ups and downs, eg, the money goes into IT companies, forcing up the price, and then the solid 'Blue Chip' companies go down in price. Some people that start with not much loot are doing OK. Must be fun too. If you invest through the net, can you be your own broker, therefor bypassing brokerage fees?
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Date: Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 11:51:59 (GMT)
From: Dave
Email: vpost3@hotmail.com
To: Harry
Subject: The worse it gets, the better it gets
Message:
Real money is made is after the big crashes. When prices fall sharply, then it's time for the vultures to step in and buy, knowing that it's virtually certain that they'll go up again within a year or so.

I guess the trick is knowing when a slump has hit the bottom.

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Date: Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 12:15:41 (GMT)
From: Harry
Email: None
To: Dave
Subject: Fly like a vulture.
Message:
Some are saying that a crash is just around the corner. The way I figure it, there's only so much money out there to invest, and with the imergence of internet companies, many of which are valued in the millions, but are yet to show a profit, and the great interest shown in them, then the old reliable blue chip companies go down in price. It's a great opportunity at present and even a mug like me could do alright. The trick is to become one with the ups and downs of that money, but hey, lots are doing it and doing well.
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Date: Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 06:43:47 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Harry
Subject: I wish, Harry I wish...
Message:
Harry there's really no way to avoid brokerage fees. Even on the net. It is fun, though.

This my sound hollow coming from such an investment loser, but pick your stocks carefully, go for steady long term growth in your equity and avoid the 'hot' stuff unless you've got money to burn. Best of luck to you too.

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Date: Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 06:55:58 (GMT)
From: Harry
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: A steady eye and nerves of steel
Message:
Fuck steady long term growth. Must be fun going for the bucks, and if those 'suits' can make money, then it must be easy. Famous last words hey, but ya gotta be in it to win it.
Luck
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Date: Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 07:12:36 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Harry
Subject: The right stuff
Message:
Hey, maybe you got it. Go forth with greeat vigor and robust something or other. Shit it's getting late and I was on the beach (Washington Pacific Coast) early this morning for low tide and then spent the next several hours digging in the heavy wet sand for Razor clams.

Man, are they delicious. I calculate that with license fees, digging 'tubes' transportation and the requisite omelette w/Bloody Mary chaser afterwards, each clam cost about five bucks a piece. Another good investment, huh.

I know what you'll say, Harry 'ah you can't put a price on communing with mother nature.' And you're right. It was glorious and a perfect sunshining day!

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Date: Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 08:52:42 (GMT)
From: Harry
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Ahhhh, communing with Nature.
Message:
Sounds like a great day, and you're right, I think $5 a clam is a small price to pay. I was out riding yesterday, not far from here, and I cruised around a corner in the bush and came face to face with a deer the size of a horse. He was no more the 10 feet away from me. We looked at each other a couple of seconds and then he exploded into the bush at the side of the track. I had just started doing an affirmation, 'everyday, in everyway, it's getting better and better', and I nearly run into a deer. Powerful things these affirmations ;)
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Date: Mon, Apr 10, 2000 at 21:47:35 (GMT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Harry
Subject: THAT was an ELK, silly
Message:
Deer don't get that large. Elk, on the other hand, average about 1000 lbs or so for a mature male. Females are a little smaller at 600-900 lbs or so. Deer don't get that big anywhere!
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Date: Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 16:29:11 (GMT)
From: The Deer
Email: None
To: Harry
Subject: I remember you, Fuckface
Message:
Yeah, there I was, minding my own business with my daily affirmation, 'There are no humans, there are no humans', and bingo! I look up and there you are! I couldn't fucking believe it! Useful lies, my ass - Tony Robbins, EAT MY ANTLERS!!

Jerry

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Date: Mon, Apr 10, 2000 at 21:52:52 (GMT)
From: Elk-god
Email: None
To: The Deer
Subject: That's because you know not what you are
Message:
You must first affirm your REAL identity..... an ELK! Deer don't get as large as a horse, only elk do! See, my antlered friend, you need the sat-elk..... ONLY I can reveal your elk-ness. Then the humans will go away...... yeah, right.... he he he ...oooppss, don't want to give away the man behind the elk mask.
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Date: Sun, Apr 09, 2000 at 03:43:12 (GMT)
From: The Sapling
Email: None
To: The Deer
Subject: I'm the sapling you ate for lunch arsehole
Message:
That was very good Jerry. I haven't read any Robbins, but I have a book of his here, so I'll check it out.
I know things like affirmations get put into the New Age box, but people have been tapping into that energy for centuries. New Age, Old Age, the important thing is, does it work. Rejecting things out of hand isn't a very scientific approach. Now if you do an affirmation like 'everyday, in everyway, it's getting better and better' for 5 minutes morning and night, and after a couple of weeks you start to notice positive change in your life, is that change real? It's my experience that this is a very powerful energy, and we can make positive change on all sorts of levels in our lives. You would probably want to dissect the experience then, but it's as old as man, as the universe.
And watch were you're walking. You deer are a menace to us little saplings.
There are no deer; there are no deer. See it works. You no longer exist.
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Date: Mon, Apr 10, 2000 at 22:40:44 (GMT)
From: Elk-god
Email: None
To: The Sapling
Subject: Elk don't eat saplings
Message:
Elk are grazers, just like cattle. We eat grasses and stuff like that. That's why we taste sooooooo goood! Now, we have been known to pee on saplings and BOY are we capable of making you little fellas smelly! That's one of the ways that humans detect our presence...... sorry 'bout that! But when nature calls, we BUGLE!
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Date: Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 05:20:36 (GMT)
From: Dave
Email: vpost3@hotmail.com
To: Gerry
Subject: That sinking feeling
Message:
I lost £11,000 in one day on one bet a few years ago. Prior to that, I once lost £12,000 in four bets on a Saturday afternoon. I had a system which I had invented and which worked and still works today but I made the fatal mistake of betting too high stakes for the amount of capital I had. I also panicked and deviated from the system.

You know how it is; you're doing well so you up the stakes, thinking the good run will continue. Then you hit a bad patch and are loath to lower the stakes and so you hang on.

Betting on horses isn't that different to what you were doing. Now I just gamble on my own business and marketing strategies. I get better odds that way. And no, I haven't got a bet on the Grand National today, Harry. Have you?

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Date: Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 06:30:52 (GMT)
From: Harry
Email: None
To: Dave
Subject: That sinking feeling
Message:
No Dave, I don't bet on the nags. Seems to me that the odds are always going to get you in the end.
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Date: Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 06:23:50 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: Dave
Subject: Dart board stock investment says:
Message:
In a David Suzuki experiment (see tv program on probability), reputable stockbrokers invested 'x' amount of money, and others threw darts at stock market pages to choose stocks in which to invest. The dart throwers came out marginally ahead of the experts.

Now I am going to bed.

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Date: Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 04:35:16 (GMT)
From: Runamok
Email: None
To: Harry
Subject: fa please read
Message:
Harry, I have his address around here somewhere. Why don't you just send the cash to him.
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Date: Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 05:07:25 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Runamok/Seth of Houston
Subject: You are soooo clever, Runny
Message:
got the Houston part right, buddy? What a dirt ball sweat box town. Perfect for you.
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Date: Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 05:18:49 (GMT)
From: Runamok
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: herry gerry
Message:
You're usually too pissed off at me to even notice when I do make a joke.
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Date: Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 05:24:42 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Runamok
Subject: herry gerry
Message:
You're usually too pissed off at me to even notice when I do make a joke.

Ok, sorry I missed it. It was a joke. I accept that. And your statement, perception whatever, here is true. So you got one right.

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Date: Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 01:16:09 (GMT)
From: Award Presenter
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Award of the day
Message:
Invite the world and then act like Idiots

ps. administrator this ain't java it complies with the rules for posting

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Date: Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 08:45:23 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Award Presenter
Subject: Award of the day
Message:
That weed was stronger than I thought. The messages are changing colour and moving.

Anth the Can't remember where I put it.

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Date: Sun, Apr 09, 2000 at 04:14:20 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Award of THIS day
Message:
WOW man... I didn't even smoke any and it's happening to me now.
Contact high? Or the admins got the stuff and smoked it too :)
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Date: Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 03:01:35 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Award Presenter
Subject: can't argue with you
Message:
Christ if I were ever going to drink again!
Makes a case it does.... but naw I've seen many a premie act
juat as bad or worse. Sorry
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Date: Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 00:30:45 (GMT)
From: La-ex
Email: None
To: Michael Dettmers
Subject: Thanks Michael, please see post below....
Message:
Michael-
Thanks for the first response, please see the longer post below...
And if you would help in some way, I would gladly assist in any way possible..
LA
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Date: Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 00:24:06 (GMT)
From: La-ex
Email: None
To: Michael Dettmers
Subject: Thanks for responding, one last question....
Message:
Dear Michael-
Thanks for responding. I know this is a touchy subject for everyone, and I respect you for engaging in this dialogue, as many people who have been around maharaji are reluctant to talk about the past.Strong feelings abound, on all sides...
Also, since you haven't been here before, please accept apologies from most of us who do not wish to engage in venting anger from the past over past issues that you did not create. The anger is generally directed at maharaji, and I don't think you deserve any of it. In fact, I think you should be commended for taking part in this, as I think there are real understandings to be gained, and real issues to be resolved...
There are many questions I would like to ask you, but out of respect for you, I will limit it to one question, and one request.While I have many more to ask, I felt that in your response to me you were saying what you wanted to say, and in a nice way, saying that you didn't want to answer too many more..
So, here's my question, and I'm really being sincere in asking it, and I know that your response from before was sincere as well...
In your opinion, are there any unresolved issues from the past between maharaji and the people who followed him? I believe there are many, many issues that need to be cleared up. I don't believe that most people want to walk around with anger, negativity or unpleasant feelings over past issues.It prevents all of us from growing, understanding, healing and moving forward in our individual evolution.This goes for maharaji, his family, the people around him, and all of the people (past, present and future) who might interact with him.
So, the question, are there any unresolved issues, is now followed by the request...Would you volunteer in acting as some sort of mediator between maharaji and some of the people on this site (not the haters, but the ones with real questions), so that we could all clear these things up and move on? I think you are uniquely qualified in many ways.Your corporate and organizational experience, your close friendship with maharaji in the past, your perspective, your understanding of the issues and the feelings on all sides involved, your obvious respect for maharaji as a teacher, but not necessarily Lord,etc. etc.
I am really serious and sincere in asking this.
Would you vounteer to do this?
It would help all of us.
There is no one who would not be helped.
I think that if you stepped forward and volunteered to do this, it could possibly be the greatest work you could ever do in your entire lifetime.
I really mean this Michel, from the heart.
Reflect on these things, consider the possibilities, the understanding, the healing, the growth, the potential to transcend and move on in all of our lives.
It would help everyone involoved, and there are very few people who could pull it off. You are one of them.
Could this current dialogue you are having with the people on this site possibly be 'synchronicity', as you spoke of before?
Please allow the possibility some room in your mind and heart.

And if you don't want to do it, do you think it would be a good thing to do, and do you recommend someone else who would be as uniquely qualified as yourself to facilitate it?

Best wishes, and thanks for responding to the previous post.
LA

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Date: Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 18:41:53 (GMT)
From: JW
Email: None
To: La-ex
Subject: Thanks for the hearfelt suggestion...
Message:
That's really great LA-EX. Very thoughtful and constructive way to look at things.

Much as this suggestion is commendable, I think for Maharaji, one of the many things he plans to do on the day hell freezes over, is to meet with his critics, especially ex-devotees who feel he has failed them in a big way. I would like to be proved wrong here, but in all the years I have observed Maharaji, I think he has a MAJOR character flaw, and that is the inability to face his critics or accept responsibility for anything negative he has done. He's over 40 now, maybe he will have a midlife crisis and change, but I tend to doubt it.

Also, any kind of a meeting with Maharaji would have to be public, for all to see, or at least result in a public airing of all the issues. It isn't acceptable to just meet with a few people and try to quell his 'enemies.' Oh, no, that's not acceptable at all. There are way too many ex-premies who have been harmed for that to happen, and all the potential new cult recruits need to know about those things as well.

I think Michael Dettmers has some kind of a personal friendship with Maharaj and well as some kind of personal loyalty to him. The problem is, Maharaji was a 'public' figure to most of us, so perhaps we can be more objective than Michael can. I think Michael wants to bend over backwards to protect his 'friend.' In some ways this is commendable, but when you understand your 'friend' has committed atrocities, whether you think he intended to or not, there is a much bigger issue here. It's a kind of 'greatest-good-for-the-greatest-number' kind of thing. You have thousands of people who have been damaged by Maharaji's behavior, and you have loyalty and friendship on a personal level. Can you rectify that?

Also, I think there is an issue here with Michael personally. If you read the thread on the ashrams, and if Michael is saying he was instrumental in the way the ashram residents were summarily dealt with when the ashrams were closed, I think Michael may have some personal responsbility here as well, unless he can explain otherwise.

Finally, I want to hear Michael discuss more how he did NOT benefit from the slave labor premies supplied at DECA. He says he didn't, and that might be true, but then Michael said he didn't think the renunciate workers at DECA were 'slaves'. Bill and I have pointed out how that it hogwash, and Michael hasn't responded. So, Michael, I think your financial dealings in leaving your position, the monetary settlement, if any, and how Dettmers Industries were connected to DECA, are important to clarify as well. Michael, I think, intends that his explanation to Jim answers those questions, but I for one don't think it does.

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Date: Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 04:16:04 (GMT)
From: Anarchist
Email: None
To: La-ex
Subject: But what would be the point
Message:
What is there to ask Maharaji?

'Why are you, Maharaji, so totally unresponsive to the people who you conned into believing you were the Lord in order to get their money???'

Would you ask a thief why he stole your wallet?

There would be no point, would there.

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Date: Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 02:59:40 (GMT)
From: Joey
Email: None
To: La-ex
Subject: And thank you Ex-Lax!!
Message:
So, the question, are there any unresolved issues, is now followed by the request...Would you volunteer in acting as some sort of mediator between maharaji and some of the people on this site (not the haters, but the ones with real questions), so that we could all clear these things up and move on?

I always felt you were full of shit.

Now I know.

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Date: Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 03:19:09 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Joey
Subject: And thank you Ex-Lax!! Hey joey, that's my line !!
Message:
That's ok. I agree with you so much of the time it's scary. But don't put that on your resume.

Hey how 'bout this bone to gnaw on with Mr. Clean. (Now I now why he shaves his head--too many ingrown hairs were making his brain a bit fuzzy...

Anyway, he quotes Jung (that ultimate authority) about synchronicity which the new agers glom onto with such glee:
synchronicity-an acausal connecting principle...

Gee, wow, I mean, WHAT THE FUCK ??? ACAUSAL CONNECTING PRINCIPLE ??? (sorry didn't mean to yell.)

But this is a COMPLETELY MEANINGLESS TERM, meaning a cause that is not a cause. But it sounds good, almost scientific. And Jung later tries to justify this absurdity in an essay on synchroncity published in a book which also contains an essay (by someone else) arguing that the astronomer Kepler had invented the idea of 'archetypes.'

Jung used the term (synchronicity) to explain anything suspiciously 'occult.' He once described a patient's suicide as 'a genuine synchronistic phenomena such is quite often observed in connection with an archtypal situation' --an explanation which has no relation to what actually happened but sounds good--even vaguely scientific.

Horse crap on synchronicity. And horse crap on Dettmers for his slick, silky smooth apologist attitude towards the Fraud of the Universe. Personally I think Jung, Dettmers and 'Gooberaji are all full of the same bullshit.

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Date: Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 04:19:32 (GMT)
From: Joey
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Well next time get a copyright!
Message:
That's ok. I agree with you so much of the time it's scary. But don't put that on your resume.

Thanks for the support on this one Gerry, and also for letting me use your variation of this guy's pseudonym. I saw it before on this page and I was wondering if it was you.

Hey how 'bout this bone to gnaw on with Mr. Clean. (Now I now why he shaves his head--too many ingrown hairs were making his brain a bit fuzzy...

Funny Line Ger, but I think Jim explained somewhere in an earlier post that the 'Mr. Clean' look was actually the result of a medical condition. In which case we'll just have to come up with some other lines. But not to worry, I believe there have already been a few good ones bandied about.

Now Gerry why are you hitting me with Jung and the archetypal synchronicity stuff? I mean really? Sheesh! Just because I buy books and ship'em doesn't mean I necessarily read'em.

But when it comes to Dettmers, I don't think one has to have read so many books in order to understand this.

IMO, he is too far implicated in m's crap to even be able to totally come clean. If Dettmers were to speak the truth and help bring about some kind of investigation into m's rot, eventually that investigation could turn on him, and he at some point would probably become a subject of that investigation as well ( along with m and others). In which case he might end up needing some top flight legal assistance to save his ass. Not a happy prospect to look forward to for one's speaking the truth.

I really believe Dettmers feels he can't afford to speak the full truth. I mean if the full truth of what this guy knows about m and his crappy cult were ever known...it would be outrageous.
But like I said, he's got to feel like he's in a straight jacket especially in terms of the legal consequences.

Personally, I'm not really expecting too much from Dettmers.
I mean, speaking of Ex-Lax... :)

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Date: Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 05:19:56 (GMT)
From: gErRy (tm)
Email: None
To: Joey
Subject: Jeez Joey, get a lawyer...
Message:
Yeah, I think your hunches about Dettmer could very well be true. He does sound like he tap dancing on some very thin ice. And I have a hunch you're pretty well read.

PS Never want to poke fun at someone's physical problems. Not fun or funny.

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Date: Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 08:18:16 (GMT)
From: Joey
Email: None
To: gErRy (tm)
Subject: Trust me Gerry, I've already got one :) NT
Message:
nt
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Date: Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 00:19:24 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: effective mind-control deterrent??
Message:
effective mind-control deterrent??
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Date: Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 15:52:40 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: G
Subject: if only Gurdjieff had known ...
Message:
if only Gurdjieff had known ...

http://www.geopages.com/Tokyo/1236/brainwash1.html
tells us of this:

Brainwashing, or thought control, is a method used by false schools, destructive mind control cults, and other forms of sham religion to exert control over their
members. An important part of the work is to recognize and avoid this in yourself and others.

Anyone can become subject to brainwashing. The presence of one or more of the characteristic errors on the way prepares the ground for, and increases your
susceptibility to, this loss of individual self-control and the loss of the possibilities of your higher inner development.

Often when you meet someone who is suffering from brainwashing or thought control, and you ask them about the group they are involved in with skepticism, they
will cheerfully ask you if they look like they are brainwashed; but in most cases, if you ask them how to recognize someone who is brainwashed, they will be unable
to tell you. If they can, they may still be unable to see their own brainwashing due to the presence of buffers. The term `brainwashing' comes from the Chinese
language xi nao, which means literally wash brain, that is, `purify thoughts'.

The presence of any of these errors makes the group a candidate for classification as a destructive influence. When you come across such a group, proceed carefully
and do not overestimate your own ability to remain free from its influence.

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Date: Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 13:08:02 (GMT)
From: A.P.
Email: None
To: G
Subject: very Funny I Ordered 2 (nt)
Message:
(NT)
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Date: Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 00:35:40 (GMT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: G
Subject: Funny, but lest someone take it seriously
Message:
BWAH HA HA HA HA HA HA!

Jeez, I can just picture someone wearing one of these. One problem, an ungrounded piece of metal acts more like an antenna (collector of RF) vice a 'shield.' No, putting your feet on the ground doesn't put it at ground potential, from an RF point of view.

The specific wavelength collected by this antenna depends on its dimensions (which would vary to some degree, from head to head). I will run it through some antenna modeling software for my head size and let you know.

BWAH HA HA HA HA HA HA !

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Date: Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 00:26:36 (GMT)
From: blood boils
Email: None
To: G
Subject: love it (nt)
Message:
http://members.tripod.com/~zoam/afdb.html
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Date: Fri, Apr 07, 2000 at 21:47:05 (GMT)
From: JW
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: The Ashram Experiment and Why It Dogs M
Message:
G had a great post down below regarding the ashrams and the closing of the ashrams that I wanted to reprint part of it, as well as my comments, also from down below. I think this issue, and the way it showed Maharaji's uncarring attitude towards his followers kind of sums up a lot of issues when it comes to Maharaji. Perhaps Mr. Dettmers, because he had a close and personal relationship with Maharaji has never seen this from the angle of a premie renunciate circa 1983.

I also think that the fact that there are quite a number of disaffected former ashramites around means that unless Maharaji addresses this issue openly, that he is likely to be dogged by it for the rest of his 'master' career. What do you think? What do you, Mr. Dettmers, think, or have you ever thought about it?

G's comments:

During a Q&A meeting, a former ashram premie asked Maharaji regarding the ashrams 'What was that about?', the only thing that Maharaji said was 'Mistakes were made.'

The closing of the ashrams in my area was handled very poorly, and I'm speaking as a former ashram premie. First, there was a 'purge' of the ashrams, leaving only the 'elite' ashram premies. This made some people feel like rejects (from a CULT I might add). It was a great insult. Also, there was an uneven distribution of the few assets and the more significant debts. This was not based at all on what people had earned, but by who was favored. No help was given in reorienting us to OUR lives outside the ashram. No counseling was provided. The barest of explanations as to why the ashrams were being closed was given. More importantly, no explanation was given as to why the ashrams had been started again.

Mr. Dettmers, do you have any comments about this? Based on what you wrote, it seems that Maharaji, you, and others viewed the ashram premies simply as pawns in a game, as objects to be used, rather than the human beings that we were and are. How about treating us like human beings for a change and give some straighter answers? I appreciate your response, but what you wrote (which really wasn't much) was veiled in vague philosophical terminology.

I'm glad the ashrams were closed, but back then I was devastated, in large part due to the way they were closed and the continuance of the cult.

My comments:

Thanks, G. I left the cult and the ashram in the late Spring of 1983. At that time, the ashrams were still up and running, but I think they were closed later that year. So, I never heard any of the explanations as to why that happened. Two things about the Q&A, though. First, Maharaji's passive voice avoidance of responsibility would have made Richard Nixon proud.

Second, that's the first time I ever heard of Maharaji ever saying there was a mistake about anything happening in his cult, even though even in this instance he wouldn't take any responsibility for it whatsoever, which I think has been his pattern to this day.

Although I wasn't around for the closings, I was around for the 'purge,' in my case the inquisition was performed by David Smith, with permission, he said, given to him personally by Maharaji. David's purge consisted primarily of performing sadistic mental torture on innocent ashram premies and either getting them to leave (despite Maharaji's personal statements that one should never do that), or terrify them into becoming ashram robots. It was hell. Frankly, it was David's sheer inhumanity and Maharaji's support of it, that shocked me enough to question the whole cult and get me out.

In retrospect, it may be the ashrams and how awful those people were treated by the Perfect Master, that might dog Maharaji for the rest of his 'master' career. There are plenty of disaffected people out there whom he treated with at best uncarring abandon, and at worst with open disdain. These people aren't likely to forget that anytime soon, and now with the internet, they are getting connected up.

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Date: Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 16:13:30 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: The Ashram Experiment and Why It Dogs M
Message:
Dettmers says:

'Ashrams were established all over the world and there were no mechanisms in place or even contemplated that were capable of fulfilling the responsibilities that the structure implied. When people age, or get sick, for example, who and what support system would take care of them'


So - here were the ashramites, who had given EVERYTHING, for a cause they (once) believed in, giving the Maha their total devotion: total time, total effort, total wealth, - and Mr Dettmers thinks they weren't even worth their health insurance ...?

And the Maha went along with it ...?

Sickening. Just sickening.

And this is the factual history that will dog the Maha for as long as he's remembered.

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Date: Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 08:37:47 (GMT)
From: Bjørn
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: The Ashram close down in Norway
Message:
I stayed in ashrams in 4 different countries. The funny thing I never actually moved in, the ashram was established in a house I rented, and I never moved out, as when I finally was sent back to Norway, the lease for the ashram flat was ended so there were no physical place.

Ive met some premies in different countries though. In my opinion quite a number of the ashream premies had been unable to fit into the society. A lot of them never really had a job, very few were skilled in any professions. Actually a lot were misfits and hippies from the viuwpoint of the society. (I dont mean negative about this). A lot of them never had a real job.

In the ashrams some of these people were trained to have disiplin in their life, they got a structured living, had a great sosial network, and became valuable members of the society.

In Norway, when the ashram was closed there were only 3 people there. The ashram owned a flat of a value of about 75 000 $;.
Of the 3 remaing ashram premies one of the premies did not want the money, so the other 2 shared the money. One of them gave his money away to a third person for some weird reason.

None of these premies are today coming to programs.

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Date: Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 16:22:14 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Bjørn
Subject: close down in Norway
Message:
'A lot of them never had a real job' says Bjorn.

Norway I don't know about, but if you're claiming to speak for UK ashrams - Bjorn, someone owes you a smack in the mouth, boy.

I was ashram treasurer in Edinburgh. All ashram residents, apart from the Housemother and Secretary, had full-time jobs. The money from those jobs went from them to me to the ashram secretary to DLM Headquarters, and presumably from there to the Maha (after expenses).

Get your facts straight next time. You're talking to people who gave their ALL.

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Date: Sun, Apr 09, 2000 at 08:41:08 (GMT)
From: Bjørn
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: Someone needs a course
Message:
- I am aware that english is not my native language, but I try to improve.
May be you cq should improve your reading skills.

To clearify: Prior to their encounter with Knowlegde most ashram premies did not have a job - this is merely my observation.

Those who received Knowledge and were established, did not move into the ashram. (at least in Norway)

After the process of having moved into the ashram, at least in Norway everybody including the secretary and the housemother had a job and most of them did well. This is also my observation.

If you want I can even make a statistics out of this.

I hope I will not get smacked in my face, My description is at least correct for Sweden , Norway, Denmark and Finland and for one ashram I stayed in the US.

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Date: Mon, Apr 10, 2000 at 18:03:53 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Bjørn
Subject: Improve these skills, Bjorn yesterday ...
Message:
Improve these skills, Bjorn yesterday ...

You wrote:
'In my opinion quite a number of the ashream premies had been unable to fit into the society. A lot of them never really had a job, very few were skilled in any professions.'

I read what you wrote.

Now it apparently means:

'Prior to their encounter with Knowlegde(sic) most ashram premies did not have a job'

Which, in my decreasingly humble opinion, still deserves a smack - if not in the mouth (though that's the offending orifice) then at least a rap over the knuckles.

I for one had the beginnings of a perfectly good career in publishing. Which I 'surrendered' at those cloven-feet.

Your current post seems to be suggesting that pre-ashram we were a bunch of unemployable layabouts, and after the ashram experience we became employable and 'did well'.

And you can even 'make a statistics' out of this ...

Well!

I await your data on the subject, Bjorn the Statistician.

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Date: Mon, Apr 10, 2000 at 20:07:15 (GMT)
From: Bjørn
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: Hope you ar not into the habit of smacking cq
Message:
My apologizes for unaccurate writing.

My point was that unlike people in the US ashram premies in Norway did not suffer ecconomical when the ashram closed down. Some people disagreed about what happened, but I imagine there must be some principle behind it.

I have written facts according to my knowledge. To even make your correction more accurate: 'Prior to their encounter with Knowlegde(sic) most ashram premies did not have a regular job. Most of them did not even have a solid job when they moved into the ashram.' (meaning they had been employed for more than 3 months). BTW I think they were great people, they just were not established. While I lived there, we had a lot of fun,

I guess the regulation were somehow different than in the UK. Actually there were too few people to establish an ashram. So sometimes unemployed people from other countries was sent to Norway where the unemployment rate was close to 0.

What is actually your problem?

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Date: Mon, Apr 10, 2000 at 22:51:22 (GMT)
From: Hal
Email: None
To: Bjørn
Subject: You really need smacking dreamer
Message:
Both my wife and I (and as a result my children) have suffered in our careers due to Maha's fucking bullshit . At 18 yrs old I gave up a very promising career in commerce to serve the greatest incarnation of God ever, the Christ come again etc etc.

I gave those years when most of the population were establishing themselves and purchasing their first properties, running over to programs in Miami and losing jobs. Of course I chose to do that and thought that it was glorious to be a part of 'this amazing phenomina'.

I spent the most fun years of life , my youth, being a stupid celibate monk in an ashcan, thinking I was special or holy or some such shit. I'm still reeling from that now. My children have at times ( in recent years ) not had shoes to fit them because I thought that education, job training and careers were unnecessary as the 'golden age' was here. The golden toilet seat age was the only thing that happened.

' THERE'S A SUCKER REBORN EVERY MINUTE '

Wake up Bjorn you're living in delusion and I find your ignorance insulting!

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Date: Mon, Apr 10, 2000 at 21:30:17 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: Bjørn
Subject: Back up your allegations, go ahead,
Message:
show us your so-called statistics and back them up with evidence. This is insulting. I for one, did have a full-time, solid, professional job for far longer than 3 months before moving in, and was employed the entire time, no thanks to the ashram. For most ashram premies I knew it was the same way.

Put up or shut up.

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Date: Sun, Apr 09, 2000 at 23:33:03 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: Bjørn
Subject: the ashram and jobs
Message:
Having a job was a requirement to move into the ashram, at least during phase 2 (when they reopened after 1976).

I find what you wrote hard to believe, but then I don't know what the ashram scene was like there. What timeframe are you referring to? What city in the US? How can you substantiate this?

In my area, after moving in the ashram, a few premies claimed to have illnesses like hypoglycemia. For some people, hypoglycemia is a real disease, but IMO, they were faking to get out of work. Also, one guy was on unemployment, another kept trying goofy stuff instead of getting a job. So there was some freeeloading, but most of the ashram premies had jobs before and after they moved in. But consider that handing over all your money is not good motivation for making money.

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Date: Sun, Apr 09, 2000 at 06:26:50 (GMT)
From: Hugh
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: close down in Norway
Message:
Ashram treasurer in Edinburgh eh? I think I know you.

People seemed pretty happy in the Edinburgh ashram especially around breakfast time? Remember those huge healthy breakfasts that lasted most of the morning? That house mother that married Chris was really good at making flapjacks.

Hugh

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Date: Mon, Apr 10, 2000 at 12:24:45 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Hugh
Subject: memories of Auld Reekie
Message:
Hugh,

I’m racking me brains to see if I can remember you from ... Pilrig Street was it? Sorry to say, with only your first name to go on, I’ve drawn a blank.

Big Chris I remember well, (mentioned him in my “Journey”), also Zana, George (Blodwell), Angus (Spence), Peter (Bone), Ricki, Alan Darroch, Tony, Geoffrey, a couple of Mikes, Jane (Dowd), Davy McGlachen ....sheesh, how long ago was it? A quarter of a century?

When were you in Edina? Drop me an email if you like, maybe it would help resurrect a few more braincells (mine, that is!)

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Date: Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 16:25:57 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: apologies to housemothers and secretaries (nt)
Message:
apologies to housemothers and secretaries (nt)
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Date: Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 13:32:28 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: Bjørn
Subject: Blame the victim
Message:
I stayed in ashrams in 4 different countries. The funny thing I never actually moved in, the ashram was established in a house I rented, and I never moved out, as when I finally was sent back to Norway, the lease for the ashram flat was ended so there were no physical place.

Did they ask you if you wanted to live in an ashram environment? You wrote 'the ashram was established' in the passive tense. Does that mean that it wasn't your idea but that the other ashram premies pressured you to let them set up an ashram in the apartment you lived in? If that is the case, you were 'moved in' the ashram. Also, 'I finally was sent back to Norway' indicates that you were kicked out.

Ive met some premies in different countries though. In my opinion quite a number of the ashream premies had been unable to fit into the society. A lot of them never really had a job, very few were skilled in any professions. Actually a lot were misfits and hippies from the viuwpoint of the society. (I dont mean negative about this). A lot of them never had a real job.

I would say that getting sucked up in a cult contributed greatly to them being unable to fit into society. That was the case for me, I was able to fit in before. Having a job was a requirement for moving in the ashram. What did they have, unreal jobs? Now the word real is being butchered again. What are you saying, that they had menial jobs? And whose fault was that? In the ashram, obtaining skills was not encouraged, quite the opposite. The only skills training programs I saw were how to sell flowers on the street, how to kiss ass, how not to complain, being able to sing Arti without even thinking about it, etc. Maharaji discouraged getting a college education, it was not considered 'service'. Why did you bring up 'hippies' if not to mean something negative? As for being 'misfits', again, Maharaji and the cult was the main cause.

In the ashrams some of these people were trained to have disiplin in their life, they got a structured living, had a great sosial network, and became valuable members of the society.

What kind of 'disiplin'? Singing arti twice a day, following a rigid schedule imposed by others? Doing what you're told? Wearing underwear with holes, sleeping on the basement floor? That's the kind of disipline you get with S&M (sado-masochism). That's not self-disipline, that's servile obedience. I can just picture Maharaji standing there dressed in leather instead of a mala, and holding a whip instead of a flute.

Yes, they got structure all right, a rigid authoritarian structure with a lot of absurd rigid rules. 'a great social network'? Hardly, the social relationships in the ashram were dehumanized. Only a very few 'elite' premies benefited from any network in financial terms. Many of my co-victims moved back to where they were originally from when the ashrams were closed.

In Norway, when the ashram was closed there were only 3 people there. The ashram owned a flat of a value of about 75 000 $;.
Of the 3 remaing ashram premies one of the premies did not want the money, so the other 2 shared the money. One of them gave his money away to a third person for some weird reason. None of these premies are today coming to programs.

How can 'the ashram' own a flat? Whose name was it in? Were the others previously kicked out? 'remaining premies' suggests that others were kicked out and not able to share the value of the flat. One didn't want the money, or so you were told, another gave it away to 'a third person'. Who was this 'third person'? I agree, very strange. This shows the detrimental effect the ashram had. I don't blame them for not coming to programs anymore.

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Date: Fri, Apr 07, 2000 at 22:25:17 (GMT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: Outstanding post, Joe AND G.
Message:
JW & G: When I read the little that MD said about the ashrams, I was wondering if it would raise the hair on your neck.

Good god, these people willingly gave their entire life, in perpetuity(sp?), to the living lord of the universe. And the response..... 'Mistakes were made'???????????? I don't think I have any words in my vocabulary that can speak to this absolutely heartless response. The only question I would care to ask any current premie is, 'how can a person with so little love or compassion teach you ANYTHING about it?'

The very least he could have done is to leave the ashrams open long enough for the people to get trained/schooled in something that would support them individually. I mean, let's face it, as a group of people, ashram folks could each be making minimum wage (even then) and get by quite handsomely due to the pooled resources. Put them out there on their own and it's an entirely new ballgame. It's a guaranteed loser! Even a moron would easily realize that they were being forced into a state that would qualify them for welfare status, for christ's sake!

Joe and G (I think Jim belongs in here, too), I have the utmost respect for you and your trials during that odious phase. The fact that you came out the other side intact is a real testiment to your resilience AND your humanity!

To M: You should hang your head in complete and utter shame. You, who are supposed to be so damned intelligent, couldn't even divine the simple fact that these folks had nowhere to go due to your very own renunciation edicts. What a total piece of heartless shit you are! Christ, you talk about bankers and others as being heartless..... shit, they don't hold a candle to you in that category!

To anyone that got this far: Sorry for the profanity, but this issue just continues to drag it out of me. Everytime I read an ashram story of this variety, my eyes begin to well up. Some of the finest people I ever knew were ashram folks and I just find it hard to comprehend this kind of treatment forced on ANYONE, much less the ashram people. I, on the other hand, was ALWAYS treated with kindness and respect by the ashramies that hosted my presence. When I received K, I was in that very same SF ashram and the folks there could not have been more caring or kinder to me...... even when it might have been against the rules to 'put me up' for the night!

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Date: Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 02:53:00 (GMT)
From: gErRy
Email: None
To: Mike
Subject: Excuse, Mike? Soldiers don't cry...
Message:
Everytime I read an ashram story of this variety, my eyes begin to well up.

Hope the story my loss of the '66 Dodge with the two wrecked sides and bad transmission to the State College ashram didn't ruin your day !!!

:-)

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Date: Mon, Apr 10, 2000 at 15:06:35 (GMT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: gErRy
Subject: Bet me..... he he he :-)
Message:
gerry: You only have to go to your average run-o-the-mill war to find out differently.... :-) The 'difference' is that a good (read the: still alive) soldier doesn't let it 'debilitate' them..... If it does, then you are in trouble. :-)

This whole ashram thing just gets my blood boiling. The heartlessness of the whole affair is just beyond my comprehension. Callous isn't the word for it. Heartless isn't really the word for it. Hypocritical doesn't cut it, either.... It's WAY beyond those descriptions. It is, LITERALLY, like kicking a homeless person out of a shelter and providing them with no other recourse. THEN, to add insult to injury, giving the homeless person the unpaid bills for the shelter!!!!!!!!! These ashram residents WERE HOMELESS PEOPLE. The only difference was that it was by choice (e.g. renunciation) as opposed to losing a job or whatever. Beyond that simple distinction, it was the same thing. NOW, what does the average person think of those that would try to do something like this to what we normally refer to as a 'homeless person?' BLOOD BOILS does it for me!

If so much time hadn't transpired since the 'purge,' I would think that the residents really WOULD have a legal claim against M. One thing is for sure, those premies that are STILL putting M-expenses on their OWN credit cards, are just BEGGING for the same treatment at some future date. He really is a piece of work, don't you think?

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Date: Fri, Apr 07, 2000 at 21:58:29 (GMT)
From: JW
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: A Note On Ashram Debts.....
Message:
One thing I missed out on because I left a few monts before the ashrams were closed, was the dividing up of ashram debts among the residents. When I left the ashram in San Francisco in 1983, I was the ashram housefather, and we didn't have any debts, due (ahem) to my great management of the finances. (This extended, towards the end, to my refusal to give any money for some stupid plane Maharaji wanted (this was AFTER the 707 debacle) and instead buying all the brothers new clothes and the ashram a new car. This is one of the things I am most proud of in my premie career: the day I said NO to the Lord and his insatiable desire for material possessions. But I digress.) I don't know if the ashram had debts by the time it closed.

Anyhow, I realize that this wasn't the case everywhere. Some time ago, I was contacted by a ex-premie from Montreal, who said that when the ashrams there were closed (supervised by Candi McNary) she inherited $20,000 in debt. Yes, $20,000 in debt. She worked for over five years to pay it off. Really. I am not kidding you.

Now, think about it. These premies had turned over all their income, were available to be slaves for the lord wherever he wanted them, gave up careers and education, and STILL when the ashrams were closed (because somebody decided they were now a liability) they were stuck with DEBTS. I'm sure Maharaji could have sold ONE of his multiple Rolls Royces and could have satisfied those debts. Did he ever offer? I don't think so.

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Date: Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 10:24:11 (GMT)
From: ex-mug
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: A Note On Ashram Debts.....
Message:
I didn't know that the ex-ashram premies had to pay off
ashram debts. I left in 1982 just before closures in UK.
Did UK pemies have to pay off debts?

Have to say that Maharaj ji is the biggest arsehole for
not paying off the ashram debts himself - he wasn't exactly
short of money ( and money that he leached from premies
in the first place) what a bastard!!!

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Date: Fri, Apr 07, 2000 at 22:37:31 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: A Note On Ashram Debts.....
Message:
For me it was $4,000 and I didn't get a car or furniture (I had both when I moved in). I didn't realise it was that much worse for someone else. Did Maharaji offer to help, hell no. It didn't even come up, wasn't even thought of.
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Date: Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 02:10:05 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: G
Subject: Hey I just remembered...
Message:
Not only did the greaseball get my Fender Mustang guitar, but I also signed over the title of my car to the State College ashram, since they didn't have one (I was in the Harrisburg, PA ashram.)

Unfortunately (snicker) the transmission went out about a month later, and boy were they pissed !!! The Ashram 'father' made them pay $250 for the thing. It was wrecked on both sides, and you had to enter through a rear door and climb over the front seat to drive it.

Oh the sacrifices we made for the fake Lard of the Universe.

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Date: Fri, Apr 07, 2000 at 22:44:13 (GMT)
From: JW
Email: None
To: G
Subject: Was it in the form or credit card debt?
Message:
Did they give you a card you had to pay off, or did you have to pay into some sort of fund? How did that work, and who set it up? Was it an intiator?
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Date: Fri, Apr 07, 2000 at 23:02:51 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: credit card debt
Message:
It wasn't a fund. There was already credit card debt in my name; I was stuck with it. Prior to the closing, people were going towards handling their own finances and not pooling. That's where the debt was not divided evenly. I had more earning power, so maybe it shouldn't have been divided completely evenly, but people should have helped out some. At least I should have gotten a car. If I remember correctly, I and someone else agreed to split our debt 50/50. Some others might have been left with debt, I don't remember. In terms of getting assets, it was all about who was favored, very unenlightened behavior (especially on M's part).
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Date: Fri, Apr 07, 2000 at 23:45:17 (GMT)
From: JW
Email: None
To: G
Subject: No Counseling
Message:
This is another thing that has always bothered me. From the standpoint of the ashram premies, the ashrams were closed precipitously, out of the blue, with no reason or preparation whatsoever. And this came after Maharaji held ashram meetings for years, in which he stated or implied that one should never leave the ashram and if you did, for example like he said in Miami in 1980, it would be equivalent to moving into a 'cesspool.'

Okay, so you have a bunch of people, many of whom have lived for a decade as celibate renunciates, working menial jobs or doing work in 'the mission.' They close the ashrams. How are these people supposed to survive in the 'real world.' Many of them hand't balanced a checkbook in 10 years, let alone deal with sex and relationships. And this had real consequences too.

I personally know of one premie in the San Francisco ashram, who was a TRUE innocent. I mean we are talking somebody who had been in the ashram for 10 years and was a true child. A great guy, by the way. Anyhow, after the ashram closed, he contracted AIDs and was dead within about 3 years after the ashram closed. And I am told this also happened to several other ashram brothers. I can't help but think that this guy was completely unprepared to stand up for himself and deal with 'safe sex' in the midst of the AIDs epidemic. I really think Maharaji is responsible to some extent for this as well.

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Date: Fri, Apr 07, 2000 at 23:29:16 (GMT)
From: JW
Email: None
To: G
Subject: Also...
Message:
Who made the decisions about who got what and how the debt was divided? Who told you the ashrams were closing, and how was it told to you? Was there any explanation whatsoever? Were the other ashram premies freaked out? Where did most of the premies go when the ashram closed? How quickly was the ashram shut down?
Was there more than on Q&A in which this was addressed? Sorry for all the questions, this is something I have always wondered about.
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Date: Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 01:14:15 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: Also...
Message:
I don't know who made the decisions. In terms of my debt, which I split 50/50 with someone, it was simply a matter of nobody offering to help.

I left the ashram I was in during the purge. I was pressured to leave so that that ashram I was would have to close. The vibe was that the 'ashram' in general was being cleaned up (of the undesirables). They didn't even want this particular ashram to exist as a 'premie house', it closed shortly after I left, leaving one ashram left (with the so-called elite premies).

When the 'elite' one was closed a couple(?) months later, I had mixed-feelings about it. I just heard from someone it was closed, no one said it was going to be closed. It was very confusing. Oh, and I had been kicked out of the 'elite' ashram a few months before I was pressured to leave the last ashram I was in. So from my perspective, I was kicked out of the ashram before I knew the 'ashram' in general was closing.

One thing I was told by a commoner premie was that Maharaji wanted premies to be more normal. No mention about problems with the ashram structure in regards to taking care of you when you got older, nothing at all about issues that Dettmers wrote about. So I feel that the REAL reasons were never told to the commoner premies. Maybe the 'elite' premies knew more what was going on, I suspect they know a lot more than me. Maybe I was kicked out of the 'elite' ashram so that later I wouldn't try to make any claims on assets. Since I was new to the last ashram I was in, I was in a weak position to ask for anything.

Someone told me later, again a commoner premie, that Maharaji didn't like the way the ashram was closed in my area. That did very little to lesson the insult.

The other ashram premies, were they freaked out? I guess some were. It was more a matter of confusion.

In my area there was a period sometime after the closings when hardly any programs happened and attendance was minimal.

Some of the premies moved into an ashram-like premie house, I don't think that intention lasted long. Some moved back to the geographic areas they were from, some got married soon after. No one that I knew of was left in dire circumstances (i.e. jobless or homeless), although I would only give credit to the ashram premies themselves for that.

Was there more than on Q&A in which this was addressed? Maharaji never addressed the issue. That question just came up in a Q&A. I think the premie left Maharaji after that.

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Date: Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 02:35:38 (GMT)
From: JW
Email: None
To: G
Subject: Also...
Message:
G, now that you mention it, I do recall that after the David Smith 'purge,' there was also an 'elite' ashram set up in San Francisco, and I was not invited to be a part of it. The funny thing was, the people who WERE picked, were the most uptight, rigid, religious types, and they were supposed to be the center for 'propogation' and their vibe was so weird that it failed miserably.

Does anyone remember 'Stewey' from Philadelphia? He was one of them, and you would know what I mean about the weird vibe if you can recall who he was. Another one was Sharon Stokke, who is currently a EV honcho, and if I recall correctly, she had a REAL HARD TIME keeping her celibacy vows in the ashram. Poor Sharon.

I was actually quite happy that those people moved out of the house and went elsewhere. If I recall correctly, this was set up by that initiator who used to answer Maharaji's mail for him. A woman who appeared to have not one foot touching the earth. Can't recall her name at the moment. Oh wait, a senior moment: It was SALLY REEDER!!!! Remember HER?

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Date: Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 02:58:03 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: Also...
Message:
'Stewey' and 'Sally Reeder' seem vaguely familiar. Was Sally really bossy, have a broom up her ass? Do you remember 'Stewey' full name?

I remember a female initiator one time getting on my case right in the middle of arti because I was nearly (or was) crying. She chided 'Devotion, not emotion!'

I remember you. I don't want to say who I am here, but if you want to know, I set up v_madas@hotmail.com, purportedly set up by a Vincent Madas (Vincent Van Gogh, mad as a hatter) from Saint Rèmy-de-Provence, France.

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Date: Fri, Apr 07, 2000 at 23:26:58 (GMT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: G
Subject: As stupid as this may actually sound
Message:
G & JW: I had NO idea that you guys got stuck with the bill. This, in my eyes, makes it even worse than I thought it was (and THAT was pretty bad!). This is really pissing me off, big time!

I don't know why I never thought of you guys having to pay the bill, but I'm just incredulous. I agree, JW, you'd have thought that M would have sold one of his many many many cars to pay it all off. Jeez, one mercedes or one rolls would have done it, I'm sure.

Christ, 'feed all the people,' my butt..... He wouldn't even feed HIS OWN people! On this issue ALONE, if I were a premie, I'd leave! He has got NOTHING that I want and nothing I need, that's for sure. The proof is in the pudding! There's another thing..... concerning this one incredibly heartless act: There is NO DOUBT about its authenticity. It's a fact, it really happened and that's what he really said (e.g. mistakes were made......) There is NO DOUBT that it was a heartless act that he could have easily prevented and/or fixed with the simple signing of his name on a bill of sale and allowing ashram folks the time to get situated in the 'real' world; none of which did he even attempt to do.

How can premies (so many of whom KNEW those ashram people) let this one slide? I'm nonplussed! I don't get it. They let it go because they have a ....ahem.... good feeling inside? How could you feel good inside while this was transpiring? I truely believe that M's version of K really does remove ANY real feeling toward humanity or anything else. They just don't care! It's as simple as that! What I would like to know is 'how does it do it?' The question is not 'whether,' but 'how?' Heck, guys in the military feel remorse over things that happen in a war zone.....and it's THEIR JOB!.... but not any premies I've heard here, so far. Nothing..... dead..... no feelings, no nothing. Incredible!

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Date: Fri, Apr 07, 2000 at 23:26:41 (GMT)
From: JW
Email: None
To: G
Subject: credit card debt
Message:
At one time, because I earned more money than most of the other ashramites, and because I was housefather, I had a bunch of debt in my name. I always had a feeling in the back of my brain somewhere that if push came to shove I would be stuck with it and there would be no legal way to do anything about it, since legally, it was all mine, even though we had the debt to send premies to cult festivals and because we were giving so much money to Maharaji personally, and for his various 'needs' like planes, helicopters and automobiles. But towards the end, I guess because of the high-paying job market in San Francisco, the brothers made pretty good money and we paid off the debt before I left. That was a relief.

When I was in Chicago I bought a car with a loan in my name for the ashram. Then I got sent to the infamous DECA to do slave labor for the Lord's Boeing 707. About a year later, I got a call from my mother saying the bank had called her becuase the car loan was in default. The asshole ashram got behind on the payments and since it was in MY name, it messed up my credit for awhile. They eventually did pay it off, however.

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Date: Fri, Apr 07, 2000 at 23:47:04 (GMT)
From: Daneane
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: Some questions
Message:
JW,

Did you actually give your personal dough to M as well? Why did people give so much so freely, and why do they now?
I so can't fathom how he could have so much dough and still accept more from people with little to give. I could understand maybe if it was truly going into a collective funds for all involved...but that doesn't seem to be the case.
All who gave seemed to be aware he already had plenty of dough. Was it kinda like the spoiled child trip? You just want to give more because he's such a sweet lil boy?

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Date: Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 13:04:18 (GMT)
From: A.P.
Email: Antiprem@aol.com
To: Daneane
Subject: Some questions
Message:
Current Premies still give him money directly somehow.
I've also talked to some premies about the ashrams and it seems that in Miami, with deca and some other companies related to building industry, the asram premies at the time were getting taught a trade, many of them are still working in the trades they learned back then. The ashram even sent some premies I know to trade school. I have tried to argue the point to current premies of how the Ashrams closed and leaving all those people with nothing and nowhere to go but I see that a lot of these people who came to work on the plane all made out ok. I have thought about it many times and M probably wanted the Miami Premies to be 'Elite' as you mentioned in previous posts because this is where he lived at the time. I've heard mentioned here a company called amtext. I'm sure I missed it but how is this company related to M? (anybody?) Deca still exists in a way, Same Premies just Different companies now.
Also, there is a lot of time spent by these busy people setting up for events. Time is a very big donation. It takes hundreds of people to set these things up. It becomes a full time job for some. These are the people we need to convince to visit the ex web sites. Many of them are to far gone. It seems there is a circle of friends that the premies connect with and leaving the cult would actually mean leaving the circle of friends you have been involved with for years and years. How does someone who has been involved for so long just walk away? I commend all of the ex-premies reading this. I have seen the tight grasp M has. Good for all of you who saw right through it.
A.P.
P.S.- Thanks to those of you who responed for the great answers to my previous post regarding Questions.
Questions
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Date: Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 14:52:47 (GMT)
From: JW
Email: None
To: A.P.
Subject: Ashram 'skills.'
Message:
I think it may be true that in Miami, as opposed to the ashrams elsewhere, a few premies may have picked up valuable skills doing 'service.' But, of course, they did it while earning ZERO. And they were trained, to the extent they were, only because 1)the skill was needed for something Maharaji wanted, like the plane, and it was STILL cheaper to train a slave than hire a skilled worker, or 2)it was thought this would be a way to make money, in the long run, for the cult. Of course, this was cut short when the ashrams were precipitously shut down and the premies were on their own.

Most of the businesses that eventually DID make money, like the book-buyers (now called Amtext) were started by just ordinary premies with no organization from DLM at all. It was only AFTER it was seen to be valuable that DLM/EV glomed onto it. By and large, most of the 'moneymaking' schemes the honchos at DLM came up with were miserable failures. They are too numerous to mention. The source of cash continued to be from the donations made from the incomes of ordinary premies, especially ashram premies. Also, we did other 'fundraisers' like selling flowers on the street, just like the Moonies. Providence and San Francisco, were famous for this.

I think it's great if some people were able to take something they got from the ashram years and utilize it later. But for the vast majority of ashram premies, that wasn't possible, at least in the 'carrer' sense. Many, many ashram premies, we had spent a decade or more in the ashram, were basically dumped on the street by Maharaji, and I guess Michael Dettmers if what he says is true, some with big debts, now in their 30s trying to figure out how to get something going in their lives to support themselves, both financially and emotionally.

I will say that in the ashram I learned: 1) to live with a lot of people, a number of whom were mentally derranged; 2) to live with no privacy; 3)to blindly follow all directions no matter now stupid and illogical the directions are (yeah, this is a GOOD one); 4)to get up really, really early in the morning and sing a nonsensical Hindi song, while standing up but still asleep; 5)To get by on an allowance of $3 a week; and 6)Exist on lots and lots and lots of tofu.

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Date: Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 16:03:19 (GMT)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: DECA skills....
Message:
I totally agree about what you learned in the ashram. That is why I did not last there.

But I do have to concede that one person I know rather well, my ex husband, learned some marketable skills at DECA. Not only that, but he was paid at DECA what seemed to us to be a fair wage, and we had health insurance there that covered the birth of our daughter. In fact, the whole reason I am not in California is that when Deca closed he was able to transfer what he had learned at DECA in making jets suitable for the desires of the ultra wealthy to another company that did the same thing. He worked on the jets of Adnan Khashogi (sp?) stars and the like, having experience in Gold Toilet seats and the like I suppose can turn into a marketable skill. Obviously, a damn small market though!

Not to excuse for a moment the abuses you and others have documented at DECA and in that era, but in all honesty I do have to say that the DECA project in my life personally was of some benefit.

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Date: Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 17:25:48 (GMT)
From: JW
Email: None
To: Susan
Subject: DECA skills....
Message:
I assume your ex-husband was working in the post-Boeing 707 period, so I guess that would be after 1981 or so. Prior to that premies at Deca weren't paid, except some of the 'householders' were given money for living expenses. I understand that after that, there was an attempt to keep DECA going, and they had to pay wages to at least some of the premies, but, according to Michael Dettmers, that business failed.
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Date: Sun, Apr 09, 2000 at 03:23:37 (GMT)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: DECA skills....
Message:
It was 1982. So you are right on. And it wasn't long at all that he was there.

I do find it bizarre though that he learned this marketable skill of remodeling jets for the Golden Toilet set.

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Date: Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 02:27:20 (GMT)
From: JW
Email: None
To: Daneane
Subject: Donations to Maharaji
Message:
Here's how I recall what we donated:

Well, first of all, when I first entered the ashram before Millennium, I donated EVERYTHING, including my trust fund. I have no idea how that was spent. You were not allowed to move into an ashram if you had any debt.

While in the ashram a premie turned over every cent he or she earned to the ashram, and all premies were required to have a full time job, or else work full time in the 'mission.' When I was ashram housefather in Chicago and San Francisco, we donated 10% of the income to DLM/EV. Part of that went to national headquarters (usually 65%) and the rest stayed locally and paid for initiator transportation, etc. Then, we were also supposed to send checks made out to Guru Maharaj Ji to a P.O. box in Malibu for Maharaji's personal use. We sent another 10% directly to Maharaji, and we often sent more. We used to also donate a bunch of cash everytime Maharaji gave darshan.

The ashrams also supported the local staff, usually a community coordinator and maybe a treasurer, depending on the size of the community, (in Miami, which was the largest community at that time, I was coordinator and had a staff of 4), and also supported the initiators, and there was usually one staying in the ashram at any given time. The rest of the money supported the ashram, and financed the premies going to programs, which occurred quite often, and were pretty expensive. We also got hit up for 'special fundraising.' During the Boeing 707 fundraising, we donated an additional $40 per month per premie to the plane project. Many of the ashrams were very in debt because of all this, and the ashram premies often existed with holes in their socks and underwear. Some ashrams were a little better off.

Then, of course, premies from the ashram could be sent anywhere at anytime to do anything that EV/DLM wanted, and anybody could be sent to YOUR ashram at any time as well. Most of the ashrams I lived in had 3-4 people sleeping in a room and were pretty crowded.

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Date: Sun, Apr 09, 2000 at 23:48:33 (GMT)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: Your were lucky!!!
Message:
Most of the ashrams I lived in had 3-4 people sleeping in a room and were pretty crowded.

You were lucky!! In our ashram, there were usually about 8 sleeping in the boys bedroom (although the ashram secretary and his sidekick slept in the office - I once slept there after I took over the finances, but I was kicked back into the boys bedroom for snoring).

And if you tell the kids of today that, they'll never believe you.

John forgetting that the famous comedy sketch required exaggeration.

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Date: Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 02:34:43 (GMT)
From: Daneane
Email: Daneaneg@earthlink.net
To: JW
Subject: 'Donations'?!
Message:
JW -
Thanks for the response...that's truly amazing - how much, and that it was given freely without question. I can't imagine that kind of devotion.

My email is listed...could I ask you a couple questions?

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Date: Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 02:39:40 (GMT)
From: JW
Email: None
To: Daneane
Subject: Sure
Message:
nt
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Date: Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 01:36:52 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: Daneane
Subject: personal dough
Message:
Before I moved in the ashram and for maybe a year or so after, I gave 10% to DLM and 5% to M (of my take home pay). I think that was the amount that was suggested. Plus a little to the local community, maybe 2%. The concept was that this was 'service'. I really didn't think much about how M was already rich, so why give him money. Yes, there was the instilled attitude of wanting him to have the best of everything, that he deserved it. No thought was given to him WANTING it. We didn't analyse the situation, we obeyed.

Now a year or two after the ashram closed, a friend of mine convinced me to stop giving money. I thought about it then. After that, I only gave a little for local programs, and once I gave a few hundred for a program Maharaji spoke at in my area. So I can't speak about the current mentality. I did do quite a bit of 'service' off and on after the ashram, but stopped years ago.

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Date: Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 01:46:16 (GMT)
From: Daneane
Email: Daneaneg@earthlink.net
To: G
Subject: personal dough
Message:
Thanks G.

15% - that's a lot of dough relatively.

I had a hard enough time with the gas, a couple satellite presentations and occasional donations at the 'for aspirants' video presentations(which I did because I knew it was local costs). I'm glad I got out before this Miami event...that would have definitely set me back.

Ignorant-cheapo, that's me.

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Date: Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 02:09:21 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: Daneane
Subject: personal dough
Message:
My guess is that pwk don't give nearly that much (15%) now. But M probably has more money coming in from businesses, and from charging for the broadcasts and seminars and trinkets. I think the vibe is now the pwk want something for their money, it's moving towards a customer mentality. These are all excuses to donate. I think many of them suspect that M is benefiting from all this, I doubt many believe that M receives no compensation from Elan Vital.
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Date: Fri, Apr 07, 2000 at 21:35:37 (GMT)
From: Joey
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Hey Mike....any good investment tips?
Message:
What about Advanced Communication Technologies or 'ADVC' as its known under its ticker symbol? Have you heard of it? They're involved in the development of this 'Spectracell' software-technology applicable to wireless communication, AND, most importantly...they have two premies on their board of directors...Randy Prouty (currently associated with the conspiracy of silence happening within the cult on the Jagdeo issue ....oh, excuse me Mike...you've heard of Jagdeo, haven't you?)
and Mike Finch of UK premie fame and notoriety.

I'm sure ya must have heard of this...common Mikey, give me a break:::)))

Are they holding the stake for m? I say they are and here's why.

THIS happened at the Amtext party I attended at M's Malibu bijou pad in May of 96 ( the one that Barbara Brogan made a point of telling me I myself should be so grateful to be there, because as she said...'not even Michael Dettmers is here ...look, do you see him?').
One guy was given his trinket gift or award from M, for investigating investment opportunities ( to benefit Maharaji, as we were told, in leading edge, high tech-communications companies.). I now seem to recall although I'm not as certain about this as I am about other stuff, that the guy was Randy Prouty.)

Shortly after that, we've been able to observe three premies...Christina Murphy, Randy Prouty, and Mike Finch appearing on this company's board (Christina was later dropped in some kind of company reorg or shuffle).

I was wondering Mike. Are there alot of premies who own shares in Advanced Communication Technologies? Do YOU own shares in the company? Do you agree with me that Randy and Mike are holding M's stake in the company? And finally, do you think it's a good buy? :)

Whaddya say, Mikey? Talk to me.


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Date: Fri, Apr 07, 2000 at 21:59:05 (GMT)
From: Joey
Email: None
To: Joey
Subject: clarification for Mike, apology for Ham
Message:
The above post is directed to 'Mike' as in Michael Dettmers, and not our very own and dear, without a doubt ex-premie Mike.
Although Mike, if you'd like to chime in, please feel free to do so.
I love ya like a brother man, although the last time I said that it turned out I WASN'T talikng to a brother...I was talking to a sister. Sister Stonor. Sheesh!

Anyways, while I'm at it, I'd like to apologize to Ham, who posted me in the aftershock of my Stonor event...and well I let him have it for no good reason.

Sorry Ham, you're a great guy. I even read your posts and like them too. It was just bad timing, hitting me with that particular post at that paricular time.

Wow! I feel so light now!!:::))

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Date: Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 19:06:54 (GMT)
From: ham
Email: None
To: Joey
Subject: No sweat Joey :) !
Message:
q
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Date: Fri, Apr 07, 2000 at 23:07:08 (GMT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Joey
Subject: I'm a guy..... no problem
Message:
Joey: You have the correct gender.... he he he :-)

I knew you had to be asking MD because I'm not an expert investor, by the stretch of ANYONE's imagination. My wife is the financial wiz around here. I can talk your ears off about statistical parallax, cepheids and supernovae, but don't ask me anything substantial about money..... :-)

I wish M would take a hint from your lead..... taking personal responsibility for something and apologizing does take a real load off (e.g. your comments to ham).

Hey M..... you want peace? Try taking personal responsibility for this abortion that some would call a 'path'..... you might have more friends than you think. Well, maybe not..... but, at least, they could begin to forgive you.

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Date: Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 08:11:08 (GMT)
From: Joey
Email: None
To: Mike
Subject: 'I'm a guy..... no problem'....don't be so sure :)
Message:
Mike,

I would have gotten to you sooner, but Stonor had some pressing issues that she wanted to discuss with me :)

Now you said to me,

I can talk your ears off about statistical parallax, cepheids and supernovae...

But Mike...what good would it do? I mean, I can't even understand Stonor...how am I gonna understand any of that stuff?!? :)

As far as m apologizing...I doubt it. He doesn't apologize to his victims...he blames them.
I'm really not looking to him to pave the way, or make it easier, for me to discover any forgiveness in this situation.

I'll have to do that on my own...or with a little help from my friends.
And I really don't think that m's one of them.

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Date: Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 04:22:34 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: Mike and Joey
Subject: I'm another human being..... no problem!??!!! (nt)
Message:
I'm another human being..... no problem!??!!! (nt)
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Date: Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 04:35:06 (GMT)
From: Joey
Email: None
To: Stonor
Subject: Stonor, I wasn't poking fun at you...
Message:
...not yet, anyways:)

I was poking fun at the humour underlying our little interaction.
Sheesh! You're sensitive.

Ok, no more Stonor jokes. Promise.

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Date: Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 04:42:45 (GMT)
From: Joey
Email: None
To: Stonor
Subject: Actually, this is what I meant...
Message:
...that I was trying to highlight the humour in the interaction, in order to poke fun at it.
Or something like that:)
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Date: Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 04:46:37 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: Joey
Subject: as clear as mud
Message:
as clear as mud
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Date: Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 04:40:25 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: Joey
Subject: It wasn't fun being called a liar
Message:
Please document your allegation or withdraw it.
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Date: Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 04:48:18 (GMT)
From: Joey
Email: None
To: Stonor
Subject: It wasn't fun being called a liar
Message:
You document YOUR allegation that I called you a liar and I'll be glad to consider it.

WHAT are you talking about?

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Date: Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 05:04:25 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: Joey
Subject: It wasn't fun being called a liar
Message:
Relevant posts must be in transition. Will get back to you as soon as that section is archived.
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Date: Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 05:18:02 (GMT)
From: Joey
Email: None
To: Stonor
Subject: Good nite Stonor
Message:
You bet...I'll look forward to it.
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Date: Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 06:10:00 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: Joey
Subject: Fine lines obscured by reaction?
Message:
Joey,

One week further back, but I want to sleep well.

You wrote,

1)Again, regarding what you said in your previous post.

I also wasn't sure how I would be received as a woman, or why there was so much 'verbal brawling here, so I felt that the gender
neutrality would give me some protection.

Fact of the matter, Stonor, is that you'll never have any idea how you might have been received had you presented yourself
truthfully and clarified the misconception that many of us had.
By NOT doing so, you chose a little game of deception which speaks more about you, than it does about us.

To intentionally deceive is to lie. You have quoted me out of context, which is a form of not telling the whole truth. I did not choose a game of deception. Please remember that I also worried about dragging my ex-e-mail friend into the fray, which I don't like to mention for obvious (I would think) reasons. I presented myself honestly as a human being. Your reaction and Jim's has told me volumes about the validity of my choice.

I presented myself as a human being; what difference should sex make apart from a potential sexual come-on/interaction?

Stonor

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Date: Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 06:33:05 (GMT)
From: Joey
Email: None
To: Stonor
Subject: Get a life Stonor
Message:
Stonor,

You were aware that there were those of us who were under a misconception about your gender. By your own admission that situation was even wearing on your nerves or something to that effect.
Yet you did nothing to clarify the situation until it went on to such a point where you felt you could turn it around to have a good laugh at my expense. You chose to maintain your deception until that point was reached.
And this you did. You had your laugh, with that little sarcastic smirk at the end of your post.
Now what else do you want?

Finally you asked this:

I presented myself as a human being; what difference should sex make apart from a potential sexual come-on/interaction?

Stonor, we're all human beings, it's true. And now, we're also men, and we're also women.
That's true too.

Why don't you discover the difference for yourself?
And have a good life!

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Date: Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 04:44:32 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: Joey
Subject: It wasn't fun being called a liar
Message:
And, while I'm at it and in a Friday-night-frame-of-mind, why did you verbally abuse hamzen?
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Date: Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 04:57:28 (GMT)
From: Joey
Email: None
To: Stonor
Subject: Stonor...try to chill a little
Message:
Stonor,

I believe you're really going too far, making a pest out of yourself, especially since I already apologized to hamzen and explained the situation as best I could.

I really owe you no explanations in that regard and I believe your real motive in this thread is one of a shit disturbing nature.

Now do you want me to apologize for saying that?
Good luck!

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Date: Fri, Apr 07, 2000 at 21:02:07 (GMT)
From: Lacaille
Email: montreal.quebec@usa.net
To: Joey F. from Montreal
Subject: Please get in touch with me.
Message:
I think I hurt your feelings way back in 1974 and would like to clear the air if possible.
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Date: Fri, Apr 07, 2000 at 22:15:35 (GMT)
From: Joey
Email: None
To: Lacaille
Subject: Just let me know where I should or shouldn't touch
Message:
Jeez, ya know if they could have only said that at the Amtext office!? If they would have only been willing to communicate and 'clear the air' as you put it, instead of playing stupid premie headfucking games.
Well, I guess that's why I'm out of the cult.

Dontcha worry Lucy, I'll be emailing you soon :)

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Date: Fri, Apr 07, 2000 at 20:58:16 (GMT)
From: Brandy
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: We only want to hear what we want to hear
Message:
Dear Michael Dettmers,

It doesn't matter that you had the cojones to walk into an openly hostile environment to express yourself. It doesn't matter that you did so in an admirably straight-forward fashion. It doesn't matter that your remarks were based on an enormous amount of first-hand experience, not rumor or conjecture. It doesn't matter that you were present at a number of occasions that were characterized completely differently here by people who weren't anywhere near them. It doesn't matter that you were taking the time to address a relatively tiny, though vocal minority.

What matters is that you don't see things exactly the same way we do. What matters is that you have the nerve to openly express your respect and love for Maharaji, even years after having spent any time with him. What matters is that you stubbornly refuse to shovel some dirt on to the little mound that we have been collecting here with great, mounting fervor. What matters is that you refuse to trash Maharaji, your own past and knowledge.

This makes you completely useless to us.

Don't bother coming back until you're ready to join us in our noble quest: To bring down Maharaji and to stop the spreading of 'knowledge.' Or, at the very least, to kill a little time on the Net.

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Date: Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 00:58:17 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Brandy
Subject: Oh, you can say that again!
Message:
Brandy,

Bill W. alleges that Maharaji had such a serious alcohol problem that his family hired some top gun alcohol counsellors and attempted an 'intervention'. Bill W. says that his source claims Dettmers was there. Dettmers now says that he knows of no such intervention although he was at a different meeting with Maharaji at that same location.

End of story? Really? Is that how your mind works? You do have a mind, don't you?

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Date: Fri, Apr 07, 2000 at 21:35:33 (GMT)
From: Gregg
Email: None
To: Brandy
Subject: I heard Michael loud and clear, and I hear you too
Message:
Here's the thing, Brandy. Maharaj Ji,once upon a time, presented himself as an object of worship. He let us kiss his feet, for Christ's sake. Was someone holding a gun to his head? Now he pretends this didn't happen, or something. I'm not sure. You tell me, what does he say about those times? Or doesn't it matter? Let bygones be bygones, it's all water under the bridge, forgive and forget, right?

Or is a Master/teacher/whatever supposed to take responsibility for at least one life: his own? (Some say he should take responsibility for the lives of the many that he may have misled as well. It's a pretty heavy thing, suggesting to people that they surrender the reins of their lives to you, isn't it?)

That's what many on this site believe, and we keep harping on the point in part to make sure that believers and wannabe believers know this guy's history before they sign up for Knowledge (they still call it Knowledge, don't they?).

And, yes, it is nice of Dettmers to communicate with the exes, but it is appropriate on the part of the ex-premies to press Dettmers on this issue, too: was Maharaj Ji the Lord? Is he still, or did that job go to someone else? And if not, why did he do what he did? And what was your part in it?

Brandy, I think if you read some of our Journeys, you'll find we are frank and forthcoming about our part in this Lordship fiasco. I'm not sure Michael Dettmers has been.

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Date: Fri, Apr 07, 2000 at 21:15:33 (GMT)
From: Monmot
Email: None
To: Brandy
Subject: We only want to hear what we want to hear
Message:
Dear Brandy:

I don't agree with your comments. I, too, think it takes some cojones for Michael to 'converse' with us, and I don't construe Michael's comments in a disparaging manner, and I certainly don't expect him to 'join' the exes on the forum. I consider this a unique opportunity to speak with someone who is generally more knowledgable about what was going on in the heyday of DLM/EV etc., and I'm enjoying reading the discourse with him. Michael is forthcoming in discussing the organizational aspects of DLM/EV, but I know from reading the other posts, that there is some frustration in his demurring to discuss M's personal matters. Perhaps that is what you're referring to in your post but, obviously, I cannot say for sure.

Thanks
M

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Date: Fri, Apr 07, 2000 at 21:08:32 (GMT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Brandy
Subject: Why don't you go get a brandy, Brandy?
Message:
Relax..... chill.... have a good cigar and a pint.... your master does, why shouldn't you?
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Date: Fri, Apr 07, 2000 at 21:04:40 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Brandy
Subject: We only want to hear what we want to hear
Message:
He didn't come here. Once. Jim has been posting for him.
He said, through Jim, that he has better things to do with his time. So what the fuck are you talking about?
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Date: Fri, Apr 07, 2000 at 20:19:32 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: And yet ANOTHER question for Dettmers!
Message:
Mike,

Have you been contacted by any premies about your comments here? How about anyone close to Maharaji?

And what about your ex friends? Any of them called about this over the last two weeks?

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Date: Fri, Apr 07, 2000 at 20:28:09 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: clarification
Message:
'Ex friends' means 'ex-premie friends' of which you told me you had some.
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Date: Fri, Apr 07, 2000 at 16:35:07 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Become immune from destruction by atomic energy!
Message:
Take more of that Divine antidote

Some excerpts:

Raj Yoga is a science, an exact science, a perfect and the most practical science. It brings about the unification of the Jiva with the Divine Supreme through thoughts waves-control and their inward diversion and generation of Divine Energy. It starts with the control of the mind. It progresses through the opening of the inner consciousness to the Shabd-Brahma and meditation on the self-effulgent Divine Light. It ends in the complete union of the mind and consciousness with the Supreme Divine and it results in complete Nirvikalpa Samadhi, the Turiya State in which is attained Brahma-Swarup, salvation, immortality, vision of the universe and knowledge of time-past, present and future.

The problem is not that many premies got there, even after nearly 30 years of practise ....

When the living Sadguru becomes pleased with his devotion and service, he pushes his inner consciousness higher up and the aspirant attains Samadhi, the Turiya state in which he becomes on with the Brahma. There then remains no state of separation between him and the Almighty.

That's why!!!! He wasn't pleased enough with our devotion!

Check the other chapters also, more stuff online now.

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Date: Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 08:56:08 (GMT)
From: Scott T.
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Become immune from destruction by atomic energy!
Message:
J-M:

Raj Yoga is a science, an exact science, a perfect and the most practical science. It brings about the unification of the Jiva with the Divine Supreme through thoughts waves-control and their inward diversion and generation of Divine Energy.

I can't see how Thomas Kuhn missed this in his discussion of the structure of scientific revolutions. He clearly wasted his time on nuclear physics, the poor guy.

--Scott

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Date: Fri, Apr 07, 2000 at 15:40:18 (GMT)
From: I took the liberty of
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: moving this question up...for Dettmers from Nigel
Message:
Thurs, Apr 06, 2000 at 08:42:57
From: Nigel
Email: fitzroy@liverpool.ac.uk
To: Jim
Subject: To Mike Dettmers
Message:
To Michael:
Thanks for making contact and taking the time to explain a few things. You appear to speak with sincerity; you also clearly believe you acted with honesty and integrity throughout your involvement with Maharaji - and since. So why do I find it quite so extraordinary, unbelievable (and infuriating) to read today that you knew back in 1974 that 'he was a mere mortal like the rest of us'. 1974!!?? For God's sake - this was a good few years before the start of my own journey in and out of the (non?)cult for which you were still such high-profile speaker and representative. If what you are now saying is the truth then I put it to you that you did not go about your duties within DLM with the honesty or integrity you now plead.

You claim not to have believed in Maharaji's exclusive necessity for spreading Knowledge, even when every initiator was hammering home that very message to would-be aspirants: that 'only by the Grace of the Living Perfect Master…', 'only by surrendering the reins of our lives…', placing our destinies at the Master's mercy… how 'not a leaf stirs without his consent..' Jeez… the grains of sand unworthy for him to walk upon..??

What were you telling the aspirants at this time, Michael? Seriously, now…

Perhaps you remember delivering the following satsang, back in 1978… (You don't? That's funny - neither do I.)

>>>

MD (arriving in satsang chair and pranaming to the picture of Prem Rawat on the altar) 'Jai satchitanand…'

Assembled premies in satsang room: ' Jai satchitanand…'

MD: 'Ok, ok, that's enough of the primitive ritual. Let's get real here. Maharaji is not the Lord and there's no point in any more of this superstitious posturing and carrying on as if he were the Lord. He is a mere mortal like you or I. He just happens to like and believe in Knowledge - same as you, same as me. Basically he's just a fan. Likes meditation and does a bit now and then. I find he has an inspiring way of talking about life and everything, which is why I keep coming back for more. But if you don't care for his incoherent style of expressing himself or don't find it quite so inspiring as me then - hey, fine - stop listening! The guy is irrelevant to the process of self discovery. He just happened to be in the right place at the right time. Smart guy. Charming guy. But not the Lord...

OK, so maybe we've all just come back from Holi, had darshan even. Sang along with all of Rich Neale's ultra-drippy devotional goo-fest..? Yes? Maybe some of the other initiators there have given you the impression you simply had to go there and bow down - that you had no choice.. even if it meant selling furniture, denying the kids holidays, throwing in your careers or whatever? Yup? Well, let me tell you folks, that simply ain't the case. If you've got Knowledge that's all you need. The guru is surplus to requirements. Follow him, follow Yoganand, Rajneesh, Big brother Bugglegum ji..whoever… follow no-one. It matters not.

Darshan…hmm… now just what was that all about? An experience of 'connectedness' with the Lord of Creation? No way. It is just an ancient, charming and revered radhosoami tradition. A bit of symbolism, if you like. Wouldn't even matter who you put up on the throne. There's no more reason for any of us to kiss his toes than for you lot to kiss mine or - for that matter - Prem to kiss yours. It is just the Hindu packaging all of which is totally unnecessary - the Master included! I am gonna try and get him to change his corporate style soon. I think the devotional stuff may be a bit misleading, and passe. Come the eighties simply nobody's gonna want to have a little fat guru guy dancing with a flute and blowing in their ears, are they..?

Anyway, we're no doubt all going to sing Arti before we leave tonight. Just try and sing it with a pinch of salt, Ok? Or go home early and meditate if you prefer. Or see what's on telly. Nobody will think any the less of you. If there's any aspirants present, just stick around until afterwards and I'll show you all the techniques for you to pass on to your friends…'

>>>

I repeat, Michael: what were you telling the aspirants at this time? Seriously…

(I'll crawl back into the woodwork now)

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Date: Fri, Apr 07, 2000 at 20:20:39 (GMT)
From: Lacaille
Email: montreal.quebec@usa.net
To: Micheal
Subject: Micheal, you aren't honest
Message:
Too bad, but you'll keep getting it in the gums for M until you stop acting neutral. He's the one who should get it. By your silence, you protect him. Since he's not responding to criticism, we need your help and this site may very well become an anti-Dettmers site until you start acting responsible. Until then, your life may become miserable and your professionnal activities will be affected by your duplicity.

During the spring of 1975, in Montreal Ashram on Vendôme street, your singing teacher received knowledge. Do you remember? Aren't you ashamed to have let an aging lady go through the whole process with your approval while you knew she was taken-in for a ride. A costly one that is. She could barely sit without a chair and had to sit on the floor for hours.

What happened to your younger brother? Not Peter, the other one. I remember he had some mental trouble. It was drugs wasn't it? He lived with your mother didn't he? Talking about your mother, she received K as well. How do you feel about the whole thing? Your own mother, your handicaped brother and Peter your other brother were all taken for a ride while you knew M was a fraud and you kept faking devotion? Don't you think you could have the decency to speak-out now or is it that M knows enough about you to have you put in jail if you do?

What is your big secret Micheal?

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Date: Fri, Apr 07, 2000 at 21:04:02 (GMT)
From: Monmot
Email: None
To: Lacaille
Subject: I Don't Think It's Necessary To Attack M.D. (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Fri, Apr 07, 2000 at 20:33:32 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Lacaille
Subject: Lacaille, you're only frightening him away (nt)
Message:
Lacaille, you're only frightening him away (nt)

intentionally???

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Date: Fri, Apr 07, 2000 at 21:20:34 (GMT)
From: Lacaille
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: Lacaille, you're only frightening him away (nt)
Message:
I don't beleive in sweet-talking him into being honest.

If he want to keep being a crook by protecting the mega-crook, then, I'd rather know where he stands. I think his life's got to be miserable for it then. If I can help it, I'll be glad to participate.

On the other elbow, Micheal is bright enough to know the only issue is honesty at last. In an EMAIL I sent him yesterday, I suggest he write a tell-all book, hire a PR guy - Joe Anctil may be interested. Why not? Picture it for size if you can. - a ghostwriter and a lawyer and uses the opportunity to dissociate from M (thunder should go directly in Malibu) become a spokesman against cults and a celibrity.

It's either this or the anger of thousands will be directed against him.

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Date: Fri, Apr 07, 2000 at 23:18:00 (GMT)
From: Observer
Email: None
To: Lacaille
Subject: The anger of thousands!
Message:
'It's either this or the anger of thousands will be directed against him.'

More like 15-25 diehard whinos, worldwide.

Get a grip an the reality of the numbers.

Less than one full row at any of M's programs is making this noise. You're entitled to make your noises, just try to have a little perspective regarding the size. In fact, you're overwhelmingly outvoted by the numbers of people who continue to love M and knowledge AND by those who received knowledge, aren't necessarily 'active,' know all about your site and have zero interest in chiming in with you.

Are you honest enough to admit that?

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Date: Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 02:08:37 (GMT)
From: Joey
Email: None
To: Observer
Subject: and the stupidity of one asshole!
Message:
In fact, you're overwhelmingly outvoted by the numbers of people who continue to love M and knowledge AND by those who received knowledge, aren't necessarily 'active,' know all about your site and have zero interest in chiming in with you.

They may have no interest in participating in this forum, but I believe a significant majority of them wouldn't mind seeing m and the cult fully exposed and brought to justice, and when push comes to shove...trust me pal...it's YOU pwikies who are going to be overwhelmingly outvoted.
And you're daydreaming if you think otherwise.

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Date: Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 03:53:36 (GMT)
From: selene
Email: None
To: Joey
Subject: and the stupidity of one asshole!
Message:
And those rows at the events are nothing to write home about.
Same ole same ole. At least this is interesting, warts and all.
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Date: Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 04:27:26 (GMT)
From: Joey
Email: None
To: selene
Subject: and the stupidity of one asshole!
Message:
You know that point would have totally eluded me.
Selene, I love you...
....YOU- COMPLETE- ME !

Joey McGuire :)

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Date: Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 04:40:39 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Joey
Subject: and the stupidity of one asshole!
Message:
yeah well then check your email. oops
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Date: Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 04:43:12 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: ps to Joey
Subject: only said that because I am paranoid
Message:
no one has answered my email lately.
I am feeling like I am an evil awaful person after the latest
fuck you. oh well. I know it wasn't from you - sorry.
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Date: Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 05:14:25 (GMT)
From: Joey
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: Oh Selenie!!
Message:
How many times do I have to tell you?! You're NOT an evil awful person!!
Sheesh!
I'll em you soon.
In the meantime Stonor has something sticking in her craw, and she's all over me.
I suppose I should be grateful that she isn't accusing me of 'religious intolerance' or God only knows what else.
Well as wise goddess once said....'it's all cyber gymnastics' :)
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Date: Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 05:28:12 (GMT)
From: Sekene
Email: None
To: Joey
Subject: Oh Selenie!!
Message:
Stoner went off a bit one me once because I didn't honor her thread enough. But I think she is cool. be patient Joey.
Hey it is odd. People tell me to email them and don't answer. I think it's because I am always moving so fast, the manic thing. I am online all the time and just expect everyone else to live in cyberspace. And do as I say when I expect it.

Bow Down to ME Super Vixen - garbage oops she's coming out again time to take the meds!!!!

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Date: Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 14:27:05 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: Sekene
Subject: Good morning Selene!
Message:
Hi Selene,

I always thought that we had nothing but good fun in our posts.

When exactly did I go off at you a bit once? ('for not honoring her thread enough'?) I really would like to understand what you are talking about. I've never felt any negative feelings towards you whatsoever, nor felt any from you towards me.

Stonor

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Date: Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 18:15:10 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Stonor
Subject: Good morning Stoner!
Message:
It was nothing really. That business with the dictionary. I wasn't upset. Just babbling with Joey. I hope you aren't upset.
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Date: Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 18:26:22 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: Yoohoo, Seleeeeeeene.....
Message:
What, no comment? I don't know where you got the idea I hated you, one 'fuck you' doesn't constitute complete rejection in my book. Hell it's the heat of the battle. Did you read my post above?
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Date: Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 18:59:00 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Yoohoo, Geeeeeerrrrryyyy.....
Message:
I did indeed comment on it. Took me a while to process the fact that you actually answered one of my posts to you.
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Date: Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 05:38:16 (GMT)
From: Joey
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: Oh Selenie!!
Message:
Bow Down to ME Super Vixen...

Ya know I was fantasizing about JUST THAT today...are you psychic or what?! :)

And thank you for the note on patience, sweetie. I'll try and remember it for more than two seconds :)

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Date: Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 05:31:22 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Sekene
Subject: that was selene not sekene
Message:
don't you hate it what that happens?
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Date: Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 05:46:20 (GMT)
From: Joey
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: that was selene not sekene
Message:
Always. But did you notice, I corrected it on the return post?
Hey I'm not going to let you be a sekene. Sheesh, that almost rhymes with zucchinni! :)
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Date: Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 05:54:15 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Joey
Subject: now Joey
Message:
I refrained from any timing comments.
No veggie comments.
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Date: Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 06:10:56 (GMT)
From: Joey
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: I'm so misunderstood!
Message:
I was doing everything in my power to PREVENT you from being associated with any veggie comments.
Heck, I didn't mispell your name!

(Selenie, you're just so kewl. I love ya!)

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Date: Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 06:21:15 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Joey
Subject: mispelling vs. 2 seconds ????
Message:
I'll take the pepsi challenge.
No I am not up for it. I've been on this damned thing all day.
It's my fault for screwing around at work but it's their fault for keeping me there til nearly midnight last night.

So I think we are clear. M is a fraud. We are ex premies. Gerry hates me. And you and me are OK. And everyone think I am a 12 step refugee. Guess that about sums up today for me. You and Stoner have a bit to work out it seems. I really should start a sub plot thingy. I keep saying that.

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Date: Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 06:42:32 (GMT)
From: Joey
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: mispelling vs. 2 seconds ????
Message:
Basically, I think you've got it all down to a tee. Except for Gerry.

How can Gerry possibly hate YOU?
If anything, shouldn't it be the other way around?
Ya know, I'd call him over but I think he's still busy with Run, and I'd really hate to disturb him when he's having all that fun.
Oh well.
I kinda like it that way. It's just me and you, babe:)

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Date: Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 06:59:59 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Joey
Subject: yeah he just says fuck you selene for fun
Message:
Forum does get funny this time of night on weekends. It really is outdated. If I wasn't working I'd take it on and do a chat out of it. It's time for a sychchronyous environment. This is silly.

of all the dumbest things I have done in my forum 2+ years.
And believe you me. I have done some dumb ones. Of all the dumbest ones. Was trying to help Katie by taking over her role in Recent Ex's. What
on earth was I thinking? I haven't the temperment not do I even come close to the what? mission statement? I'm the anti statement shit I got a thread deleted from HERE tonight for fucks sake. YEAH Gerry hates me and he has it all wrong and I can't ever talk to him about it oh well.

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Date: Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 07:16:47 (GMT)
From: Joey
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: well, you know what you should say to Gerry then..
Message:
Don't get down on yourself for whatever happened at Recent Exes.
You wanted to help out a bit and you did. Kewl.

Now about Gerry...is it that you can't talk to him OR that you don't want to talk to him ?

I mean its kewl with me either way. Like I said, I like it better when its just me and you. I'm really not into threesomes.
Well not that kind of threesome anyways :)

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Date: Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 10:02:42 (GMT)
From: Observer
Email: None
To: Joey
Subject: Poor Joey
Message:
.........seems like you don't have no partner in life to love you. Wonder why?
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Date: Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 10:15:48 (GMT)
From: Joey
Email: None
To: Observer
Subject: Poor Observer
Message:
It seems like you have no life to live, and I do wonder why.
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Date: Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 07:24:23 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Joey
Subject: men!!!! you're a big help.
Message:
I mean it. uh about this place needing a chat environment that is. I'll bet a lot of the people would hate it though. I know the ones who would hate it already I could name.
I'm getting loopy. The thing with chat is the thread up top and the one here would naturally be together. OH OLIVWE?!?!
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Date: Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 07:43:00 (GMT)
From: Joey
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: Women! Can't live with'em...can't live without'em
Message:
You're getting loopy?!?

I've still got a Stonor buzz! :)

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Date: Fri, Apr 07, 2000 at 22:32:48 (GMT)
From: Joey
Email: None
To: Lacaille
Subject: Lacaille, you're only frightening him away (nt)
Message:
It's either this or the anger of thousands will be directed against him.

But if Dettmers follows the path you're promoting here ...then he has to live with the anger of thousands of die-hard premies that would be directed against him.

Have you thought of that?

BTW: I have a good idea of who you are :) Look forward to getting in touch!

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Date: Fri, Apr 07, 2000 at 12:12:17 (GMT)
From: David
Email: vpost3@hotmail.com
To: Everyone
Subject: New messages on The Great Worldwide Linkup
Message:
This is a website for contacting old friends. It is a neutral site and has nothing to do with anyone's beliefs or opinions about Maharaji or knowledge.

Click here for The Great Worldwide Linkup

There's some new messages there and of course, anyone is welcome to post a contact message.

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Date: Sat, Apr 08, 2000 at 15:56:08 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: David
Subject: Testimonial for the GWW Link-Up
Message:
Hi David and all -
In my experience - if you are interested in getting in touch with people that you may have known in your premie past, the Great Worldwide Link-Up works. I posted several months ago and have heard from three people so far :).

Thanks for doing this, David -
Katie

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Date: Fri, Apr 07, 2000 at 07:52:29 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Lewis Carrol watch out!
Message:
Ivete Belfort Mattos:

My key

From Sao Paolo, Brazil

Today, I opened the window
The sun was shinning
It promised an enjoyable day.
Then I discovered that
I had lost all my keys,
All of them.

Despite this, I live in a paradise.
Not only because of the environment:
Beaches with sun or wonder forests.
Neither is it due to the people around me,
Or peace of mind, my own tranquility
Or any kind of personal success.

However, I had to play out the role
Of my upset with my vanished keys,
I am sincerely happy.
I am in a paradise.

In fact, it is because of Knowledge
The beauty that is inside of me
The real joy in my existence
The desire of my heart is clear to me.
My simple treasure inside me

This small disturbance in my routine,
In a certain way, does not compromise my joy.
This intense daily routine
Does not cause any kind of emptiness
Neither does it affect my fulfillment.

Knowledge collects this wonderful feeling.
A feeling of being alive.
A feeling of being grateful.
A feeling of being.

When I think about how fortunate I am,
When I allow myself to feel grateful,
Without judgment.
Just pure and simple as I am.
Knowledge takes me in the right direction.
It is always pointing within, within, within.

I can lose all my keys,
Although, I will avoid doing it again
Nevertheless, what I can never forget is that
I can't lose my most important key.
The key inside of me,
Knowledge.
This is my life.

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Date: Fri, Apr 07, 2000 at 15:28:29 (GMT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: What, did this guy smoke opium?
Message:
'...I live in a paradise....Neither is it due to the people around me, Or peace of mind, my own tranquility...'

'...I am sincerely happy.
I am in a paradise....'

'...However, I had to play out the role
Of my upset with my vanished keys'

Quite an interesting emotional flow, don't you think? Funny thing, though.... I noticed that he said his personal paradise wasn't due to people or his own peace of mind or his own tranquility..... THEN he says he's personally happy and in 'paradise'.... Hmmmmmm.... I find this a bit confusing. Does M count as a 'people?' Maybe not, to this guy! So he's not tranquil, but he's in paradise.... Hmmmmm.... Nope, I don't understand it. ACTUALLY, it's so full of contradictions that I think this guy just wanted to write a poem (like all the other little premies-borg) and used a bit of... ahem... poetic license to make himself sound a bit more 'enlightened.' Hey, it doesn't hurt to beef up the 'accomplishments' and efficacy of his lard, now does it? Tsk, tsk, tsk...... YES... LIE-SANG is alive and well folks!

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Date: Fri, Apr 07, 2000 at 17:50:52 (GMT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Mike
Subject: He's gotta be high on something!
Message:
Hey Mike,

I especially love this line;

'...However, I had to play out the role
Of my upset with my vanished keys'

This must be what's meant by 'creating your own reality'. This ain't really happenning to me. This is just happenning to my body and my mind. Me? I'm in Paradise! Ooh, yeah!

Now where were those keys?

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Date: Fri, Apr 07, 2000 at 18:58:20 (GMT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: Faking it is the most likely answer
Message:
YES, Jerry..... That line caught me, right off! Does he actually believe that ANYONE buys that line-o-krap?

SH-T, he was PISSED.... he wasn't 'playing' at it! This lying-to-oneself stuff really gets me going! Remember the 'old' satsang where we would lie to each other by-omission? When we used to 'omit' anything 'negative' from our talk of daily K experiences? Where we would chalk it up to Mr. Mind..... with many anxious-to-help premie advisors telling us to go bury our anger/doubts/whatever under the blanket-of-meditation? THIS POEM falls right into that lie-sang category.

NOTHING ever got 'fixed' by avoidance. You know???? I never got angrier than when I was a premie. The continuous burying of emotions just made them more and more powerful. THINKING about 'negative' things doesn't increase their power, it denudes them! When one sits and thinks about it a bit..... it evaporates like a cloud of mist. When you try to 'avoid' negativity by omitting it from your vernacular or hiding from it under a blanket..... it becomes more powerful than anyone could have imagined (IMHO). In premie-speak I would say it this way: If anger is 'of Mr. Mind,' then you have to deal with it THERE! You can't deal with anger, doubt or anything else by escaping to the great oneness. When you come back, it's just as strong as it ever was...... probably stronger!

In this regard, I think of lopsided meditation-addicts in the same way as an alcoholic...... Both have the same result, if you don't deal with REALITY on its own terms. I ask a simple question..... How many times did we try to escape from Mr. Mind? Now, how many times did we succeed? NOW, how many times did we 'secretly' sit down and calm ourselves by using plain old logic and thought (to the best of our, then, meager abilities )?
Case closed!

These premie..... ahem.... poets are pathetic. It's like one guy/gal had to write a 'love poem,' now they ALL must do it. Never mind that they aren't actually experiencing anything near what they are writing about..... hey, it's just fiction, right? Unfortunately, there are many people out there 'seeking' an answer and will fall for the fiction these premies are creating. This isn't even M writing this tripe..... it's the premies themselves. So when this crop of premies gets upset when we 'pick on them,' they should step back and take a look at their actions..... A REAL LOOK!

Everyone 'thought' satsang was gone.... BUT, No..... lie-sang is alive and well, just like the old days!

Man.... did this get me going or what???? :-)

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Date: Fri, Apr 07, 2000 at 15:03:57 (GMT)
From: Scott T.
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: 'K' stands for 'key magnet'
Message:
Jim, Mike, et al:

I can lose all my keys,
Although, I will avoid doing it again
Nevertheless, what I can never forget is that
I can't lose my most important key.
The key inside of me,
Knowledge.
This is my life.

See, I told ya... he ate the damn things.

--Scott

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Date: Fri, Apr 07, 2000 at 17:16:14 (GMT)
From: JW
Email: None
To: Scott T.
Subject: Yes, a magnet, or one of those 'beepers' that...
Message:
tells you where your keys are.

So, can someone explain why knowledge is anything different than the power of positive thinking?

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Date: Fri, Apr 07, 2000 at 15:30:00 (GMT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Scott T.
Subject: BWAH HA HA HA HA HA HA
Message:
Tank you, tank you, tank you..... THAT was a good laugh Scott! :-)
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Date: Fri, Apr 07, 2000 at 11:12:02 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: a few revised words
Message:
Today, I looked out my window
The sun was shimmering
It promised a happy day.
Then I discovered that
I had lost all my marbles,
All of them.

Due to this, I live in an asylum.
With a nice environment
Benches with sun and wonder trees.
And interesting people around me,
Pieces of my mind, my own mentality
Lack of personal success.

Still, I had to play out the role
Of my upset with my vanished marbles,
I am sincerely happy.
I am in an asylum.
...

Ibet Ima Mad

From Saint-Paul Hospital

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Date: Fri, Apr 07, 2000 at 17:43:51 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: all
Subject: 'the wonder forest'
Message:
the wonder forest
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Date: Fri, Apr 07, 2000 at 15:35:25 (GMT)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: G
Subject: Lovely poem, send to ELK! (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Fri, Apr 07, 2000 at 19:53:22 (GMT)
From: Vinny Madas
Email: v_madas@hotmail.com
To: Susan
Subject: Ok, I sent it in as 'Sincerely Happy' (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Fri, Apr 07, 2000 at 15:32:44 (GMT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: G
Subject: STOP IT, STOP IT..... my tummy hurts
Message:
G: I just got finished with Scott's hilarious post and now yours...... My stomach hurts!!!!!! BWAH HA HA HA HA HA :-)

THIS IS A KEEPER, G!

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Date: Fri, Apr 07, 2000 at 15:26:43 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: G
Subject: Well that sure made me laugh
Message:
And I'm STILL laughing!
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Date: Fri, Apr 07, 2000 at 14:33:19 (GMT)
From: Way
Email: None
To: G
Subject: a few revised words
Message:
Come on, guys, it probably rhymes and sounds a lot better in the original Portugese.
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Date: Fri, Apr 07, 2000 at 16:13:30 (GMT)
From: Gregg
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: more Premie Poetry Parody
Message:
I've got a brand new pair of roller skates
You've got a brand new key
Maybe we could get together
And I could kiss your feet

And if it really works out
And if I see the light
Maybe I could give you money
If that would be all right

And when my mind is empty
Nothing in my brain
Then I could write some poetry
With words like 'smile' and 'rain'

And 'key' and 'joy' (which I enjoy
Inside me all the time)
And other simpleminded words
Which may or may not rhyme

After all, it doesn't matter
What I say or do
The only thing I need is cash
To get to Amaroo

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Date: Fri, Apr 07, 2000 at 16:35:20 (GMT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Gregg
Subject: AUTHOR, AUTHOR!!!!!
Message:
Gregg: Now all we have to do is 'meditate' upon the form of LARKIN and the thread will be complete! The mantra is revealed thus: 'LAAAARRRRRKIN YOOOOOOOOURANG' Yourang is pronounced like 'yew' 'rang'.....OK NOW.... EVERYONE meditate

OH YEAH..... that mantra is a big secret and your kahonies will be crushed by ten thousand stampeding water buffalo if you tell anyone else. So take it or leave it...... :-)

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