Forum V: Archive
Compiled: Sat, May 13, 2000 at 16:56:52 (GMT)
From: Apr 30, 2000 To: May 12, 2000 Page: 5 Of: 5


Gilead -:- Apology to Ex Premie Forum -:- Sat, May 06, 2000 at 00:27:22 (GMT)
__ trixie -:- Apology to Ex Premie Forum -:- Sat, May 06, 2000 at 06:24:46 (GMT)
__ FARMY -:- knowledge for sex -:- Sat, May 06, 2000 at 01:59:00 (GMT)
__ __ Gilead Ji -:- knowledge for sex -:- Sat, May 06, 2000 at 19:43:27 (GMT)
__ __ __ farmy -:- Sevenelevengi Strikes Again! -:- Sun, May 07, 2000 at 00:08:13 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Jim -:- Gilead's naivite doesn't prove nothing -:- Sun, May 07, 2000 at 01:07:31 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ raina -:- It's not naivite. It's hearing what you want. -:- Sun, May 07, 2000 at 04:12:42 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ raina -:- just figured out-English is 2nd language -:- Sun, May 07, 2000 at 05:31:02 (GMT)
__ Stonor -:- Apology to Ex Premie Forum -:- Sat, May 06, 2000 at 00:38:54 (GMT)
__ __ Gilead -:- Apology to Ex Premie Forum -:- Sat, May 06, 2000 at 00:49:25 (GMT)
__ __ __ Scott T. -:- Butterfield Earth -:- Sat, May 06, 2000 at 18:03:32 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Sultan Gilead Ji I -:- Butterfield Earth -:- Sat, May 06, 2000 at 20:16:07 (GMT)
__ __ __ Stonor -:- They might learn something, no?! (nt) -:- Sat, May 06, 2000 at 00:52:35 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Gilead -:- They might learn something, no?! (nt) -:- Sat, May 06, 2000 at 01:31:35 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ gErRy -:- Watch that conspiracy stuff dude... -:- Sat, May 06, 2000 at 01:58:19 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Gilead -:- Watch that conspiracy stuff dude... -:- Sat, May 06, 2000 at 18:51:39 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- Watch that conspiracy stuff dude... -:- Sat, May 06, 2000 at 20:33:03 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Government WARNING -:- Watch that conspiracy stuff dude... -:- Sat, May 06, 2000 at 15:16:44 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Mr B -:- Watch that conspiracy stuff dude... -:- Sat, May 06, 2000 at 02:02:42 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ So Hung Ling -:- Watch that conspiracy stuff dude... -:- Sat, May 06, 2000 at 02:08:28 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Mr B -:- Watch that conspiracy stuff dude... -:- Sat, May 06, 2000 at 02:41:29 (GMT)

Gerry's blessings -:- Thanks... so many of them...nt -:- Fri, May 05, 2000 at 23:44:11 (GMT)
__ raina -:- Today's 'Gratitude Journal' entry GeRrY? -:- Sat, May 06, 2000 at 00:00:22 (GMT)
__ __ Mr B -:- Today's 'Gratitude Journal' entry raina -:- Sat, May 06, 2000 at 00:29:02 (GMT)
__ __ __ Mr G -:- Today's 'Gratitude Journal' entry Mr B -:- Sat, May 06, 2000 at 00:52:52 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Mr B -:- Hahahahahhahahahahaha....nt -:- Sat, May 06, 2000 at 01:13:10 (GMT)
__ __ gErRy -:- Today's 'Gratitude Journal' entry GeRrY? -:- Sat, May 06, 2000 at 00:06:08 (GMT)
__ __ __ rAiNa -:- you woodle musillini you! -:- Sat, May 06, 2000 at 00:20:09 (GMT)

JGG the ELK poet -:- Gee...could I be Ghee? -:- Fri, May 05, 2000 at 20:05:49 (GMT)
__ Stonor -:- Gee...could I be Ghee? -:- Fri, May 05, 2000 at 22:23:52 (GMT)

JW -:- Maharaji's Finances -:- Fri, May 05, 2000 at 18:30:33 (GMT)
__ Gilead -:- Maharaji's Finances -:- Sat, May 06, 2000 at 00:38:45 (GMT)
__ __ Elaine B. -:- Aspirant lies -:- Sat, May 06, 2000 at 16:57:31 (GMT)
__ __ __ Jim -:- Elaine, be reasonable -:- Sat, May 06, 2000 at 20:56:43 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Elaine B. -:- Elaine, be reasonable -:- Sun, May 07, 2000 at 13:45:00 (GMT)
__ __ cq -:- You ain't the first, Gilead -:- Sat, May 06, 2000 at 15:49:00 (GMT)
__ dv -:- How about notifying these other governments of -:- Fri, May 05, 2000 at 23:56:51 (GMT)
__ Angry -:- Maharaji's Finances -:- Fri, May 05, 2000 at 19:43:25 (GMT)
__ Jean-Michel -:- M's show for his devoted managers/chairmen -:- Fri, May 05, 2000 at 18:56:12 (GMT)
__ __ cq -:- This IS odd. -:- Sat, May 06, 2000 at 16:04:26 (GMT)
__ __ raina -:- what if he just went into isolation? -:- Sat, May 06, 2000 at 04:36:23 (GMT)
__ __ __ Jean-Michel -:- what if he just went into isolation? not so sure! -:- Sat, May 06, 2000 at 13:10:12 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ raina -:- Circle Games are the real enemy -:- Sat, May 06, 2000 at 14:14:18 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ cq -:- re the G4 - there's a bigger apple ... -:- Sat, May 06, 2000 at 16:17:32 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ raina -:- Steve Jobs -:- Sun, May 07, 2000 at 00:42:11 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ gErRy -:- Steve Jobs -:- Sun, May 07, 2000 at 01:37:20 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ raina -:- uh-everyone in this thread-and that was wrong too -:- Sun, May 07, 2000 at 04:31:55 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ jondon -:- re: the G-4 -:- Sat, May 06, 2000 at 17:46:50 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Hey, to be fair, he doesn't need no stewardess -:- Sat, May 06, 2000 at 21:44:42 (GMT)
__ Susan -:- Maharaji's Finances -:- Fri, May 05, 2000 at 18:49:55 (GMT)
__ __ JW -:- Maharaji's Finances -:- Fri, May 05, 2000 at 19:41:18 (GMT)
__ __ __ cq -:- if all eggs were in the wealthy premie basket?(nt) -:- Sat, May 06, 2000 at 16:19:21 (GMT)

Amaroo -:- Questions regarding this place -:- Fri, May 05, 2000 at 18:20:23 (GMT)
__ ASIO -:- Questions regarding this place -:- Sat, May 06, 2000 at 01:12:36 (GMT)
__ __ JW -:- Why don't you answer the questions? -:- Sat, May 06, 2000 at 03:23:21 (GMT)
__ __ __ ASIO -:- Why don't you answer the questions? -:- Sat, May 06, 2000 at 10:33:20 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Look who is talking!! -:- YOU? Yes!! -:- Sun, May 07, 2000 at 01:05:58 (GMT)
__ __ SB -:- Questions regarding this place -:- Sat, May 06, 2000 at 02:16:14 (GMT)
__ __ __ Mr Wallaby -:- Questions regarding this place -:- Sat, May 06, 2000 at 14:56:45 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Angry -:- Bongo Premies are admitted for free(NT) -:- Sat, May 06, 2000 at 19:11:00 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ SB -:- You are a lier!! -:- Sat, May 06, 2000 at 16:46:24 (GMT)
__ SB -:- Yes: Imagine.... -:- Fri, May 05, 2000 at 23:41:01 (GMT)
__ JW -:- That was from me, sorry for the typos... -:- Fri, May 05, 2000 at 18:23:01 (GMT)
__ __ Angry -:- My Suspicions/Amaroo -:- Fri, May 05, 2000 at 20:18:56 (GMT)
__ __ __ EV-ex -:- My Suspicions/Amaroo -:- Fri, May 05, 2000 at 20:41:24 (GMT)

Nigel -:- 't' asked an excellent question! -:- Fri, May 05, 2000 at 16:11:59 (GMT)
__ Nigel -:- 't' asked an excellent question! (CONTINUED) -:- Fri, May 05, 2000 at 16:56:29 (GMT)
__ __ SB -:- You ruined it! -:- Fri, May 05, 2000 at 21:26:51 (GMT)
__ __ __ Stonor -:- He was already gone! (nt) -:- Fri, May 05, 2000 at 22:00:52 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ SB -:- Got it! ROFL nt -:- Fri, May 05, 2000 at 23:42:33 (GMT)
__ Jim -:- Good post, Nige -:- Fri, May 05, 2000 at 16:39:52 (GMT)
__ __ gerry -:- Fuck you Heller, you rotten, LYING piece of shit -:- Fri, May 05, 2000 at 23:29:34 (GMT)
__ __ __ Gregg -:- gerry, maybe this will help: -:- Fri, May 05, 2000 at 23:38:51 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ gErRy -:- Ah sweet relief... -:- Fri, May 05, 2000 at 23:45:41 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Well if you don't want em -:- can I have your meds Gerry? NT -:- Sat, May 06, 2000 at 02:05:06 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ I DON'T TAKE MEDS... -:- AND NO YOU CAN'T HAVE ANY... -:- Sat, May 06, 2000 at 02:13:01 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Madam Lash -:- Show us your tits Gerry!!!!....nt -:- Fri, May 05, 2000 at 23:52:01 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ gErRy -:- Here they ARE !!! -:- Sat, May 06, 2000 at 00:32:29 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ raina -:- FUCK YOU HELLER YOU ROTTEN PIECE OF SHIT! -:- Sat, May 06, 2000 at 00:18:26 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Heller=Jim -:- nt -:- Sun, May 07, 2000 at 18:54:27 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ cq -:- Who's Heller! Hahahahahahahha ...(nt) -:- Sat, May 06, 2000 at 16:28:28 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Madam Lash -:- That's easy for you to say -:- Sat, May 06, 2000 at 00:22:03 (GMT)

Stonor -:- ANOTHER 'no joke' virus! (watch out cq!) -:- Fri, May 05, 2000 at 15:38:55 (GMT)

Jim -:- How amazingly sincere, humble and unaffected! -:- Fri, May 05, 2000 at 14:31:31 (GMT)
__ gerry -:- Fuck you Heller you piece of shit (nt) -:- Fri, May 05, 2000 at 15:22:08 (GMT)
__ Underdog -:- How amazingly sincere, humble and unaffected! -:- Fri, May 05, 2000 at 14:51:04 (GMT)
__ __ SB -:- How amazingly sincere... ROFL nt -:- Fri, May 05, 2000 at 21:29:13 (GMT)
__ __ Underdog -:- the above it titled 'Submissive Wetting' -:- Fri, May 05, 2000 at 15:06:42 (GMT)
__ __ __ Underdog -:- hey, I spent two or three minutes working on this -:- Fri, May 05, 2000 at 15:18:52 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Robyn -:- hey, I spent two or three minutes working on this -:- Fri, May 05, 2000 at 16:02:02 (GMT)

Jim -:- Would you want her as a roommate? -:- Fri, May 05, 2000 at 14:29:04 (GMT)
__ james flynn -:- Would you want her as a roommate? -:- Sat, May 06, 2000 at 12:11:25 (GMT)
__ SB -:- Jim: Would you want her as a roommate? NO!!!! -:- Sat, May 06, 2000 at 11:33:24 (GMT)
__ Tina -:- Yes, as a decorative ottoman. (nt) -:- Fri, May 05, 2000 at 16:48:48 (GMT)
__ cq -:- That 'blissfuller than thou' trip ... peeeuuw!(nt) -:- Fri, May 05, 2000 at 16:27:32 (GMT)
__ gerry -:- Fuck you Heller you piece of shit (nt) -:- Fri, May 05, 2000 at 15:22:44 (GMT)
__ AJW -:- Happy Happy Joy Joy -:- Fri, May 05, 2000 at 14:44:58 (GMT)
__ __ Robyn -:- Happy Happy Joy Joy -:- Fri, May 05, 2000 at 15:23:08 (GMT)

Jim -:- Anyone read 1984? -:- Fri, May 05, 2000 at 14:25:48 (GMT)
__ gerry -:- Fuck you Heller you piece of shit (nt) -:- Fri, May 05, 2000 at 15:23:47 (GMT)
__ __ Robyn -:- Fuck you Heller you piece of shit (nt) -:- Fri, May 05, 2000 at 15:27:33 (GMT)
__ __ __ gerry -:- Fuck you Heller you piece of shit (nt) -:- Fri, May 05, 2000 at 15:33:56 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Nigel -:- What's going on Gerry? -:- Fri, May 05, 2000 at 17:32:28 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ C.G. Jung -:- Fuck you Heller you piece of shit (nt) -:- Fri, May 05, 2000 at 16:00:54 (GMT)
__ AJW -:- At least this one rhymes (nt) -:- Fri, May 05, 2000 at 14:46:50 (GMT)

Rob -:- Invitation (OT) -:- Fri, May 05, 2000 at 03:20:00 (GMT)
__ Jim -:- Speaking of invitations ..... -:- Fri, May 05, 2000 at 03:22:55 (GMT)
__ __ gerry -:- Fuck you Heller you piece of shit (nt) -:- Fri, May 05, 2000 at 15:24:19 (GMT)
__ __ __ Elaine B. -:- Fuck you Heller you piece of shit (nt) -:- Sat, May 06, 2000 at 17:17:13 (GMT)
__ __ Rob -:- Speaking of invitations ..... -:- Fri, May 05, 2000 at 03:43:28 (GMT)
__ __ __ Selene -:- sorry Rob about post below. -:- Fri, May 05, 2000 at 03:47:58 (GMT)
__ __ Selene -:- he called me instead -:- Fri, May 05, 2000 at 03:30:28 (GMT)

Gilead -:- Setting Up Debate with Dr. Albert Ellis and M. -:- Fri, May 05, 2000 at 03:12:03 (GMT)
__ JW -:- Are You Kidding??? -:- Fri, May 05, 2000 at 17:06:35 (GMT)
__ Dr Zeus -:- Setting Up Debate with Dr. Albert Ellis and M. -:- Fri, May 05, 2000 at 13:10:46 (GMT)
__ __ Jim -:- To be fair, Dettmers denies all of this -:- Fri, May 05, 2000 at 14:54:30 (GMT)
__ __ __ Gilead -:- Getting back to that proposed, historic debate.... -:- Fri, May 05, 2000 at 23:51:26 (GMT)
__ __ __ JW -:- Well, Jim.....not exactly -:- Fri, May 05, 2000 at 16:52:20 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Jim -:- Fuck you, Joe, you piece of shit -:- Fri, May 05, 2000 at 17:01:35 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ anonymous poster -:- think Jim -:- Fri, May 05, 2000 at 17:29:40 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Is fuck you __ you piece -:- of shit the ex premie Jai Satchitanand? -:- Fri, May 05, 2000 at 17:48:07 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Katie -:- the ex premie Jai Satchitanand? ROTFL -:- Sat, May 06, 2000 at 14:39:09 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ JW -:- Jim, don't be such a fucking prick -:- Fri, May 05, 2000 at 17:15:26 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- You asshole! -:- Fri, May 05, 2000 at 17:26:16 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ JW -:- Thank you for the new information brother....... -:- Fri, May 05, 2000 at 17:47:49 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Sure, I agree -- but you played too (nt) -:- Fri, May 05, 2000 at 18:37:44 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- FYI, this exchange of 'FU's was just a joke -:- Fri, May 05, 2000 at 22:48:42 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Elaine B. -:- FYI, this exchange of 'FU's was just a joke -:- Sat, May 06, 2000 at 17:25:14 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- Fuck you Heller your Rotten piece of shit -:- Fri, May 05, 2000 at 23:10:19 (GMT)
__ __ __ gerry -:- Fuck you Heller you piece of shit (nt) -:- Fri, May 05, 2000 at 15:24:58 (GMT)
__ James Flynn -:- Setting Up Debate with Dr. Albert Ellis and M. -:- Fri, May 05, 2000 at 05:02:44 (GMT)
__ __ Gilead -:- Setting Up Debate with Dr. Albert Ellis and M. -:- Sat, May 06, 2000 at 00:46:13 (GMT)

G -:- 'Quantum Metaphysics' -:- Fri, May 05, 2000 at 03:06:04 (GMT)
__ Mark A -:- 'Quantum Metaphysics' -:- Fri, May 05, 2000 at 20:42:19 (GMT)
__ __ Stonor -:- 'Quantum Metaphysics' Thanks G and Mark A! -:- Sun, May 07, 2000 at 22:22:06 (GMT)
__ __ __ Stonor -:- Have you checked out his Addendum? -:- Mon, May 08, 2000 at 01:51:13 (GMT)

Gilead -:- Bishop Jim Jones and the Peoples Temple -:- Fri, May 05, 2000 at 02:54:14 (GMT)
__ GILEAD -:- Any comments???? -:- Fri, May 05, 2000 at 04:21:14 (GMT)
__ __ Marianne -:- Any comments???? -:- Fri, May 05, 2000 at 14:08:15 (GMT)
__ __ __ Gilead -:- Any comments???? -:- Sat, May 06, 2000 at 01:37:10 (GMT)

Stonor -:- Travolta wins an Award! -:- Fri, May 05, 2000 at 02:47:30 (GMT)

Stonor -:- missing posts in archives? -:- Fri, May 05, 2000 at 02:24:23 (GMT)
__ Brian -:- missing posts in archives? -:- Fri, May 05, 2000 at 09:32:31 (GMT)
__ __ Brat -:- Yeah, but what about me.... -:- Mon, May 08, 2000 at 00:44:18 (GMT)
__ __ Stonor -:- missing posts in archives? -:- Fri, May 05, 2000 at 13:02:58 (GMT)
__ __ __ Stonor -:- PS: archives fine - Ignore this thread- sorry! -:- Fri, May 05, 2000 at 15:07:19 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Brian -:- No problem -:- Fri, May 05, 2000 at 22:06:21 (GMT)

cq (moved up by blood) -:- Arya Samaj post is too cool to leave buried below -:- Thurs, May 04, 2000 at 23:32:48 (GMT)
__ Runamok -:- Arya Samaj -:- Fri, May 05, 2000 at 00:41:53 (GMT)
__ __ Know All -:- Arya Samaj -:- Sat, May 06, 2000 at 22:07:47 (GMT)
__ __ __ Runamok -:- pretty cool nt -:- Sat, May 06, 2000 at 23:10:25 (GMT)

la-ex -:- 9 objections -:- Thurs, May 04, 2000 at 20:37:37 (GMT)
__ raina -:- Master Waggin' God -:- Fri, May 05, 2000 at 02:16:48 (GMT)
__ __ blood -:- Hitch-hiking down the spiritual highway -:- Fri, May 05, 2000 at 03:28:59 (GMT)
__ __ __ Way -:- To:la-ex -:- Fri, May 05, 2000 at 15:03:15 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Jean-Michel -:- Way, read this please! -:- Fri, May 05, 2000 at 19:18:14 (GMT)


Date: Sat, May 06, 2000 at 00:27:22 (GMT)
From: Gilead
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Apology to Ex Premie Forum
Message:
05.05.00
I wanted to thank everybody for their patience in the past. I was an 'aspirant' with M and Elan Vital, and many months ago, with a different name (I wanted to make a fresh start, since I've come to see what everybody was saying back then). I had been defending M at the time, and got cussed out by lots of people. I know I wasn't very popular back then. Maybe everybody cussed me out to give me some 'shock therapy' and get me out of the zombieism of M. I hate to admit it, and its embarassing to some extent, but I had fallen for all of the bullshit and fake gimmicks of M. When you first hear him on those videos, he does sound like he is on to something. But then, when the premies keep giving you more & more of those videos, and M keeps saying the same thing over and over and over, it made me see the whole thing as a tease. They promised me I could receive Knowledge after five months of listening to those indoctrinating tapes, but then they were deceptive again. They threw in that some elite associates of M would have to recommend me (at first, they said just listen to tapes for five months, and that I didn't have to ever to go any meetings in person, I could just listen at home, and as soon as M came to the USA, I would be set to go. It was all a lie. Then, they starting saying it would show gratitude to donate $25 with his visit with premies, for the satelite broadcasts of M over in India. They at first said that M doesn't want donations. Then, I picked up on M saying that one has show him gratitude as the Master, by giving of ones time, money, etc.
If anybody reading on this forum is with Elan Vital, please know that they use layers of deception in their recruiting. The sooner you get out, the better.
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Date: Sat, May 06, 2000 at 06:24:46 (GMT)
From: trixie
Email: None
To: Gilead
Subject: Apology to Ex Premie Forum
Message:
Dear Gilead

Your post made me feel that love and that peace
congratulations on being able to name what was going on
trixie

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Date: Sat, May 06, 2000 at 01:59:00 (GMT)
From: FARMY
Email: None
To: Gilead
Subject: knowledge for sex
Message:
some instructor named Sevenelevengi promised me he'd introduce me to maharaji, who would then give me knowledge if i gave Sevenelevengi sexual relations and $15. It was explained to me that Sevenelevengi's pleasure was key to understanding how knowledge worked. Is this legal? I mean sometimes it's $25 sometimes it's $15! I bet sometimes they tell people $10! How do they get away with such atrosity?
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Date: Sat, May 06, 2000 at 19:43:27 (GMT)
From: Gilead Ji
Email: None
To: FARMY
Subject: knowledge for sex
Message:
I'd never heard of that before, but there are always opportunists everywhere you go. In this case, one opportunist turns against his 'Master', maybe like a Judas, but then, I don't want to compare M in any way to Jesus. I'd say its illegal, but that Elan Vital does not steal in that way (they use more slick methods, with layers of deception). You'd have to probably take action against that fake as an individual (unless you complained to the 'authorities' of Elan Vital, and they were nonresponsive, then they are a party to it).
I'm not a lawyer, but working in administration, I am aware as a layman, of some of these legalities. For instance, with sexual harassment, if an employee seeks help from management, and they are indifferent and or nonresponsiveness, then they are party to the problem, and liable.
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Date: Sun, May 07, 2000 at 00:08:13 (GMT)
From: farmy
Email: None
To: Gilead Ji
Subject: Sevenelevengi Strikes Again!
Message:
Come on? Sevenelevengi! This is EXACTLY how deaf everyone is? It was a PARODY! A Joke! And an old unoriginal one at that!

But you are so CONSUMED by your mini-war......
It's the PRETENSE of having ANYTHING in common, M or ex-premie, that is THE problem! oh my god! (holy shit!)

(Read 'Knowledge for Sex' post one more time. Then read your response, and tell me if you are not your own worst problem before you are completely consumed by all this misguided, and HYPOCRITICAL hatred!)

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Date: Sun, May 07, 2000 at 01:07:31 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: farmy
Subject: Gilead's naivite doesn't prove nothing
Message:
Before you start talking parody, Farmy, you better think where the real laughs are going to fall. They're not on us, I assure you. They're on the bloated one-time Lord of the Universe and the fools who still follow him.

By the way, have you seen The Lord of the Universe yet? Now there's a film that looks like a parody, that's every bit as funny as a parody but which is, in fact, a documentary. Check it out -- if you have the guts to.

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Date: Sun, May 07, 2000 at 04:12:42 (GMT)
From: raina
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: It's not naivite. It's hearing what you want.
Message:
(warning to Gilead-i get harsh here but it's only to make a point-sorry this reads like I'm attacking you-don't mean to).

It's so delicate a subject. Is it cruel to make fun of Gileads attempt to 'help' the OBVIOUSLY MADE UP 7-11 Ji 'victim'? Or is it? Who wants to tell him? Isn't that what you try to help the premies do here in this forum? To see their blindness? Their deafness?

Isn't that what we're doing here (sort of)? Trying to maintain the real truth? Even when it seems 'mean'. even if he didn't catch '7-11 Ji'....the 'character' was a COMPLETE goofball...so WHY was Gil moved to help? He talks about the Zombieism of M, and not being 'very popular' etc...come on? He WANTS so DESPERATELY to say the 'right thing' to fit in somewhere! So he's going to 'hate M' to make buddies! oh yay! (Isn't that the same kind of falseness M is accused of encouraging?)

I know that was what sucked me into M world in the first place....the addiction to the oxygen that came along with speaking my mind, when the 'norm' is to fake and pretend and 'get along'. and you sound like a 'bully' just because you're honest, or brave enough to speak! you get sacrificed for such behavior everywhere....

My life is SO fucked...but if M ever said anything to me that DID make sense-it was noticing how we talk to OURSELVES, in our own heads, when someone else is speaking to us. And then punch each other in the nose because we missed the whole (simple) point. (please spare me the schizo voices jokes).

love ya jim

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Date: Sun, May 07, 2000 at 05:31:02 (GMT)
From: raina
Email: None
To: jim
Subject: just figured out-English is 2nd language
Message:
i wasn't sure-of course now i sound even more horrible...
but the babel problem remains the same.....
people pretending to be clear on what they're hearing...when they are not....

(maybe that's why i seem to remain as incoherent as possible?)

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Date: Sat, May 06, 2000 at 00:38:54 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: Gilead
Subject: Apology to Ex Premie Forum
Message:
Funny you should mention the $25 . . . that was the price that a guy I met with on Thursday paid for a mantram circa '70 or so. He told me about how he lined up in a long line, and everyone paid $25 for a mantram - yes, he acknowledged, like a 'magic formula.' Guess what . . . no magic.

Great to meet you, Gilead!

(Part of, don't 'dis' it all. And if they're not sraight with you now, when will they be?)

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Date: Sat, May 06, 2000 at 00:49:25 (GMT)
From: Gilead
Email: None
To: Stonor
Subject: Apology to Ex Premie Forum
Message:
Thanks for your thoughts on it. You're right about them arrogantly (that's the way I see it when somebody condesceningly doesn't think I can handle the truth)being less than upfront. They seem like they're under some kind of a spell, though, and maybe they don't know any better? I wonder if the CIA ever met with M to study mind control techniques?
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Date: Sat, May 06, 2000 at 18:03:32 (GMT)
From: Scott T.
Email: None
To: Gilead
Subject: Butterfield Earth
Message:
Gil:

I wonder if the CIA ever met with M to study mind control techniques?

His trip is just sort of insipid. Far less successful than Scientology, which has now managed to produce a big budget movie of L. Ron's middling SF epic, starring (who else?) Mister Super-Sincerity. Why, the gentle soul even offered to counsel Lady Di's kids. M. missed the boat when he failed to incorporate quasi-scientific-quasi-psychology-quasi-selfhelp. This 19th century spiritual crap is old hat.

-Scott

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Date: Sat, May 06, 2000 at 20:16:07 (GMT)
From: Sultan Gilead Ji I
Email: None
To: Scott T.
Subject: Butterfield Earth
Message:
whats the name of that expensively produced film by Scientology? Are you saying that Mr. M. was in it?
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Date: Sat, May 06, 2000 at 00:52:35 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: Gilead
Subject: They might learn something, no?! (nt)
Message:
They might learn something, no?! (nt)
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Date: Sat, May 06, 2000 at 01:31:35 (GMT)
From: Gilead
Email: None
To: Stonor
Subject: They might learn something, no?! (nt)
Message:
That might learn something, but maybe they already got the data on M, and others. I know the CIA was involved in covert activities of mind control, trying to assasinate Fidel Castro, studies in voodoo, paranormal, and psychic phenomena.
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Date: Sat, May 06, 2000 at 01:58:19 (GMT)
From: gErRy
Email: None
To: Gilead
Subject: Watch that conspiracy stuff dude...
Message:
Everybody knows there ain't no conspiracy or global elite or anything of the kind, you wingnut !!!

Take your head outta the sand for even a minute and that piece of shit heller will be there to TRY and shoot it off. DON'T GO THERE, IT AINT PC !!!

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Date: Sat, May 06, 2000 at 18:51:39 (GMT)
From: Gilead
Email: None
To: gErRy
Subject: Watch that conspiracy stuff dude...
Message:
gErRy,
did you ever read the FBI files on Dr. King's assassination, etc.? The FBI sent this man letters, asking him to go ahead and commit suicide, and even the King family believes James Earl Ray, that larger governmental forces were involved. The FBI's COINTELPRO (Counterintelligence) is responsible for many assassins and political imprisonments, especially among Black civil rights and nationalist organizations, its all in the files.
I know too that Chief Joseph, and the Nez Perce, were victims of government 'conpiracy' when chased all around the country, and then given blankets with poison, for genocide, in order to get the north-west lands of the country, away from the Native Americans. There is also data to show that the CIA really did try to have President Fidel Castro murdered.
Consider Jonestown, do you really think that the US intelligence agents would have no interest in 1200 Americans leaving the USA, and being committed to Marxist Lenonist ideology and socialism, to live in socialist Guyana? I doubt it. Mr. Richard Dwyer, who worked for the state department in Guyana, was also working undecover for the CIA, and even witnessed the murders at Port Kaituma, and probably even at Jonestown. Jim Jones, on the last tape, asked that they get 'Dwyer out of here' before something should happent to him. The list of 'conspiracies' could go on and on. One last thought, if only 26 families control all of the wealth, less than 1% of the population in the USA, isn't that somewhat of a conspiracy against the masses, in a country that claims the Bill of Rights and Constitution?
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Date: Sat, May 06, 2000 at 20:33:03 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: glyng@techline.com
To: Gilead
Subject: Watch that conspiracy stuff dude...
Message:
Yeah, I read that great book about Dr. King's murder by the US government and the FBI stuff was in there. You are certainly on the right track, although it's a tough row to hoe with a labrinth of twists and turns (making angles in the CIA lexicon) and you won't find much sympathy here for this stuff as Heller has so many people intimidated they wouldn't dare express their opinions or the results of their research. You can email me. I love to discuss these topics.
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Date: Sat, May 06, 2000 at 15:16:44 (GMT)
From: Government WARNING
Email: None
To: gErRy
Subject: Watch that conspiracy stuff dude...
Message:
ALL CONSPIRACY THEORIES ARE THE PRODUCT OF PARANOIA

(except this one)

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Date: Sat, May 06, 2000 at 02:02:42 (GMT)
From: Mr B
Email: None
To: gErRy
Subject: Watch that conspiracy stuff dude...
Message:
Hey Gerry, I've always wondered if 'Glyling' is your surname and if so, does that mean your Chinese?
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Date: Sat, May 06, 2000 at 02:08:28 (GMT)
From: So Hung Ling
Email: glyng@techline.com
To: Mr B
Subject: Watch that conspiracy stuff dude...
Message:
You got it slightly wrong. Lyng is my surname. My mother was a nurse in the Korean war and me pap was a North Korean POW.
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Date: Sat, May 06, 2000 at 02:41:29 (GMT)
From: Mr B
Email: None
To: So Hung Ling
Subject: Watch that conspiracy stuff dude...
Message:
So Hung Ling doesn't sound Korean to me. I still reckon you're Chinese.

The life of a man is like a candle, that shines but a moment brief
If I must die for my country to live
I shall depart joyous, with the morning dew silent.
A Korean War ballad

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Date: Fri, May 05, 2000 at 23:44:11 (GMT)
From: Gerry's blessings
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Thanks... so many of them...nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Sat, May 06, 2000 at 00:00:22 (GMT)
From: raina
Email: None
To: Gerry's blessings
Subject: Today's 'Gratitude Journal' entry GeRrY?
Message:
is that what Okrah calls it?
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Date: Sat, May 06, 2000 at 00:29:02 (GMT)
From: Mr B
Email: None
To: raina
Subject: Today's 'Gratitude Journal' entry raina
Message:
I awoke this morning to a gentle mountian mist,
and am moved by feelings of awe and beauty.
Tears of gratitude fall down my cheeks,
just like the mountain mist.
Truly, everything is indeed one.
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Date: Sat, May 06, 2000 at 00:52:52 (GMT)
From: Mr G
Email: None
To: Mr B
Subject: Today's 'Gratitude Journal' entry Mr B
Message:
I awoke this morning to a pounding blinding headache,
and am moved by feelings of nausea and vomiting.
Tears of dizzying anguish fall down my cheeks,
just like the fucking mountain mist.
Truly, I can't believe I drank the whole damn thing.
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Date: Sat, May 06, 2000 at 01:13:10 (GMT)
From: Mr B
Email: None
To: Mr G
Subject: Hahahahahhahahahahaha....nt
Message:
jjjj
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Date: Sat, May 06, 2000 at 00:06:08 (GMT)
From: gErRy
Email: None
To: raina
Subject: Today's 'Gratitude Journal' entry GeRrY?
Message:
is that what Okrah calls it?

I don't eat okrah. You must be referring to 'Doprah Winbag.'

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Date: Sat, May 06, 2000 at 00:20:09 (GMT)
From: rAiNa
Email: None
To: gErRy
Subject: you woodle musillini you!
Message:
you're so cute when you're mad!
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Date: Fri, May 05, 2000 at 20:05:49 (GMT)
From: JGG the ELK poet
Email: None
To: Rawat's Inner Ghee
Subject: Gee...could I be Ghee?
Message:
Some think
That butterflies
Were named such
For their beauty
They were right

What few know however
Is that butterfly lovers
Are often saddened
When butterflies
Are drawn to butter

Butter has two natures
One savory and good
One slimy, and greasy and difficult to hold on to

Butterflies by nature
Being the creative free souls they are
Want to see only the savory and good
And sometimes fly away, when they must look too hard
At the inconstancies of butter
I mean, is butter, possibly, really more like Parkay?

The loveliest butterfly I ever saw
Was terribly wounded while in her cocoon
It made her wings so lovely
It made it hard though for her to fly
She could never tell where it was safe to fly
She had never learned to trust herself
She loved those who wounded her
She knew the love was real
But could not face what else was real
About those she loved

The butterfly, she flew around the one she loved
And she ignored that the butter she so loved
Was well aware of what had happened in her cocoon
She loved butter still
She loved the part that was savory and good
But her wings remain clipped
Because she has yet another cocoon
To emerge from

Butterfly lovers
They are saddened
They know that butterflies are free
Free to love
Free to fail
Free to accept margarine

But what if
The butterfly
Facing herself
Found
That if
She saw herself clearly
In the shiny reflection of that butter
Butter could face
If truly, he might be butter
Not Parkay

Only the butterfly can tell
Whether it is she who flies around the butter
Or the butter is drawn to her
Maybe, if she leaves her cocoon
The butter will be clarified
And become

Ghee!

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Date: Fri, May 05, 2000 at 22:23:52 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: JGG the ELK poet
Subject: Gee...could I be Ghee?
Message:
No time to read this poem with the attention it deserves, but it expresses 'duality' quite well, not to mention the 'English equivalent of 'ghee'. Are you really a 'premie?' Another case of the inherent duality (or potential unification or?) of all things.

But margarine is 'bad'. Check out The Secrets of the Soil, Tomkins and Bird. (and your poem could use a bit more 'clarifying.' Not bad for a first draft! What inspired you - margarine?

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Date: Fri, May 05, 2000 at 18:30:33 (GMT)
From: JW
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Maharaji's Finances
Message:
I was speaking to someone recently who said she was told by honchos in Elan Vital, that while Maharaji's propogation is at a standstill in North America, and that to the extent new people are receiving knowledge it is in the third world, Maharaji still has to give some attention to the US, because that's where 70% of his money comes from. Only 30% of his money comes from outside the US.

So, even though there are comparatively few premies anymore in the US, since he relies on them for most of his money, he has to do some limited programs here, like he is doing right now, for premies only, but almost no propogation/introductory programs whatsoever. Has anyone else heard this?

I think the other reason he doesn't do intro programs in the US anymore is because of the internet and the fact that ex-premies are communicating with each other now, something that hasn't happened before. With that, it's more likely that people will show up at more open programs and raise questions, hand out leaflets to the premies and aspirants, etc., and it would provide an avenue for advertising the the ex-premie websites. It seems he is trying to move COMPLETELY underground and only do satellite programs in peoples' homes, such that localities won't even rent halls anymore, so he can still milk the American premies for money, but not actually show his face in public in this country.

At least this is the way is appears to me. Do you think American premies might be a bit concerned at the way he has written of their country for anything other than fundraising?

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Date: Sat, May 06, 2000 at 00:38:45 (GMT)
From: Gilead
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: Maharaji's Finances
Message:
I made that confession statement on a seperate thread. But I was one of the deceived 'aspirants' for almost (its embarassing to say, but then, thank this forum for alias names!) a year. They were getting me all ready for M this year before I dropped out. I was become disillusioned, however, before your points were noted. They lied to me in the beginning, saying that five months of watching the videos was enough, and that M would then automatically confer on me his so-called 'gift'. It bothered me when they started re-writing the rules, telling me I had to be 'approved' by a Charand, or something like that name, who was in the higher up ranks of Elan Vital.
Elan Vital then stated I would be required to attend these approval for knowledge session, and they were scheduled in many cities throughout the country. I DID NOT GO OUT OF PRINCIPLE, I felt that they were being dishonest with me by changing the rules.
MAYBE I WAS THE ONLY ASPIRANT!!!! Well, I'd like to think they had at least a handful from the East to West Coast. IT MUST HAVE BEEN A FLOP IN ATTENDANCE. While M says he goes to Japan with audiences of only 15, he isn't willing to come to North America for that same number to give 'knowledge'. HE MUST JUST BE COMING TO KEEP HIS SALESWORK UPDATED ON PREMIES, TO KEEP GIVING HIM LOTS OF MONEY AND TO KISS HIS ASS (darshan, etc.).
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Date: Sat, May 06, 2000 at 16:57:31 (GMT)
From: Elaine B.
Email: None
To: Gilead and others
Subject: Aspirant lies
Message:
I'm back after a few days gone...

Well, my BEST friend was on that merry-go-round three years ago.
Yeah,yeah,yeah, then it was 6 months of seeing videos - right.
She was on a video by mail library thing even. Right.
What is Maharaji THINKING. The organization has ALWAYS been run by idiots. And remember for those that don't know me - I'm a premie.
I'm mad at M and think he's a jerk - but,yes, I'm still a premie.
Probably reminds me of my dysfunctional family. I can put up with quite alot. Hi, Stonor and Susan and Jim.

Oh, and my friend will never receive Kn. Has no interest. Got 4 tech from this website thanks to me.

News for later,tho, 2 women I know will be going to LA to rec Kn.
I'll get back with any news. I do know they are not supposed to tell anyone which hotel they'll be at. So they already know something's not all apple pie. The aspirant person said to me - 'what should I tell them - they don't want to run into a picket line.' I said - 'try the truth. They might have to. So. It's the real world, they are adults...'
Sigh.
I'm a premie-but I have a brain.

Susan,Stonor---
Oh,and went to a Cinco De Mayo party last night. Lots of tequila and Mex food. All ages -mostly artists and teachers. So was surprised a guy there said he used to have premie friends in Colorado - told me some cute stories - mainly about how strange they were.I said -tell me about it. He was quite surprised I was a premie and wasn't like the others. He asked, Well what do you think on this forum (I told him about)when they say bad things about K or M.? I said I am so above caring what other people do or say. He said well that's good - and continued saying bad things about what he'd heard about M. It was fun. I know Jim hates me for my lack of passion. My love for him will carry us through.:)

Elaine B.

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Date: Sat, May 06, 2000 at 20:56:43 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Elaine B.
Subject: Elaine, be reasonable
Message:
There's some simple logic here, Elaine. It's not rocket science. Maharaji claimed as many superlatives as one could literally imagine for himself. All the proof's there, we've got tons of quotes if you need them (which you certainly shouldn't!). Just to bclear, though, check out Nigel's two-part post of yesterday wherein Maharaji affirms his perfection as recently as '91. Either you think he was telling the truth or you don't. If you don't, you must think he's a liar. If you do, what kind of premie are you?

Know what I think? You're not just fucking with us, you're fucking with yourself. Who knows? Maybe it's a bit of alifestyle thing. I know, you're so quick to tell us how uninvolved you are with premies. But there are many scales of grey in that respect. My gues is that it's just simply convenient for you to walk half a walk and talk half a talk. It's not principled, just convenient.

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Date: Sun, May 07, 2000 at 13:45:00 (GMT)
From: Elaine B.
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Elaine, be reasonable
Message:
Well Jim,
I always do my own thing. Why, can you imagine, even in the earlier days when all of a sudden GMJ changed the use of the barragon sp? - I use it still to this day. I'm telling you - your dealing with a rebel. And that music technique change - forget about it - I did the old original one just this morning.
There's no reasoning with me,Jim. Don't waste your time on me.
But, I'm touched that you care. I recognize that - tho others may not see it.
Elaine
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Date: Sat, May 06, 2000 at 15:49:00 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Gilead
Subject: You ain't the first, Gilead
Message:
This ex-premie.org website has a lot of info worth exploring, for example:

this:



The following was sent to the alt.support.ex-cult newsgroup on October 19, 1997. The author explains how she was rejected as a suitable Aspirant for Maharaji's 'knowledge'.


'It was an astonishing experience for me today to attend a Maharaji aspirant meeting in order to request being granted the privilege of gaining 'knowledge'.

I have had the satisfaction of attending meetings and watching Maharaji's videos. No demands were ever made and I did find a new ability to calm my mind. In the very beginning Maharaji said that what he has to offer is not a religion and does not conflict with any religion. I had never felt any pressure -- only a gentle promise.

That all changed today. Many hopeful aspirants had come long distances (including airplane flights) to gain this wonderful offering. But we had to endure moving from room to room as we were weeded out for not being dedicated or deserving enough. I was told that 'nobody' knew me -- which translates into I had not been excited enough to talk to people and offer my time/effort. While it *felt* like a demeaning and cruel experience, we were constantly reassured that it is the 'journey' that counts and not to take it as 'rejection,' even though some people had spent hundreds of dollars on airplane tickets and were clearly emotionally crushed.

Not rejection? Bull. More like CALCULATED rejection. What is interesting is that I always wondered why ex-premies should be so angry. As for myself, I found Maharaji's message of the heart being wise and providing fulfillment -- as opposed to the machinations of mind and a materialistic world -- extremely valid. Especially so when Maharaji skillfully invites you to go within and find your own brand of happiness which is like nobody elses. Ancient masters and wise men have said it for ages, 'Know thyself.' It frees the heart.

Unfortunately, Maharaji's freedom lasts only until you realize that Maharaji's real goal is that you give HIM total allegiance. The carrot he uses is granting 'knowledge.' Although today his instructors were suddenly saying it's a life-long process of which 'knowledge' is only a part. Maharaji is more important than knowledge they told us today. Personally, I have never thought the messenger should be greater than the message, but that's exactly what you must agree to in order to receive knowledge. Knowledge is the carrot of freedom, except at the same time you're gaining freedom, you're also losing it.

In the meeting the instructor made an absolute point to have all of us repeatedly insist that we had no other religion or spirituality - explaining that that would conflict with our dedication to Maharaji. I found this to be a very important lie, because obviously many people would not have been interested if Maharaji had made it clear up front that he would accept no competing religions or affiliations. In the beginning he claimed otherwise.

Frankly, while Maharaji has always said to listen to your heart and not your mind, it wasn't my mind that objected today, but my heart. There was a distinct feeling of betrayal. This truly looks like an insidious agenda to browbeat people into a servile enough submission to 'earn' the gift of knowledge by promising nothing less than total service to Maharaji.

And to top it off, you are reminded that knowledge will not make the world a better place, or give you happier relationships, or improve your health -- it merely provides a wonderful experience. (Like alcohol or drugs without the side effects)

There was other stuff I found objectionable, but I think this covers my thoughts best.

Oh, by the way, my husband pointed out that I did, after all, get knowledge today -- just not the kind I expected.'


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Date: Fri, May 05, 2000 at 23:56:51 (GMT)
From: dv
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: How about notifying these other governments of
Message:
m's 'successful propogation' and how he will suck money out of their already fragile economies?
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Date: Fri, May 05, 2000 at 19:43:25 (GMT)
From: Angry
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: Maharaji's Finances
Message:
Hi-

What you all say in this thread seems very likely to me. Might I also add that by keeping the North American premies away from each other, Maha...can make any claims he wants to concerning 'the fantastic propogation now going on in the west'. This seems to be a common behavior by totalitarian rulers, i.e.limiting group gatherings. The Soviets did this I know. They didn't even like crowds of 3 or more people gathering in the street. This type of control is only exercised at the point of decline and discontent with the organization.

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Date: Fri, May 05, 2000 at 18:56:12 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: M's show for his devoted managers/chairmen
Message:
This makes total sense.

If Rawat would stop playing lord for the few still believing in him, he'd have the greatest problems finding rich devoted premies to run the various businesses providing him the 'gifts' he needs so much for his fabulous lifestyle.

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Date: Sat, May 06, 2000 at 16:04:26 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: This IS odd.
Message:
So why DO the wealthy premies PAY for the Maha to lord it over them?

Sounds like feudal mentality turned upside down (or is it that the rich premies don't believe they deserve their wealth, and feel they have to somehow atone for it and/or credit their good fortune to a 'higher being' - i.e. someone they think they deserve to have manifested in the flesh for them?)

No doubt they get what they pay for.

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Date: Sat, May 06, 2000 at 04:36:23 (GMT)
From: raina
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: what if he just went into isolation?
Message:
don't you think he's invested wisely enough that he can maintain as much as he wants etc?
he doesn't really need anyone i'd imagine?
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Date: Sat, May 06, 2000 at 13:10:12 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: raina
Subject: what if he just went into isolation? not so sure!
Message:
Maybe he did, but he can't neglect the huge income he gets as 'gifts' from his pams running the various businesses in his name ... He had not enough with one yacht, he had to have another one to propagate (I don't know what), his G4 is going to age, he'll soon need a better and faster toy etc. And god knows what his relatives are asking him every day!!!

And the 'uncertain' factors he very likely fears the most, like IRS' attitude etc ...

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Date: Sat, May 06, 2000 at 14:14:18 (GMT)
From: raina
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Circle Games are the real enemy
Message:
yes but...certainly he has seperate incomes...one for himself? I would imagine that would always be invested wisely and large enough for him to always start over again and again, in anyway he imagines? I'm sure he recognized the volitily of his business a long long time ago....and his own 'trust' in fellow human beings being nothing he could ever always 'count' on (at least financially)....

i was once an intern for a very short time for a famous person (rich also) who had the same kind of circle games running around him as maharaji did/does...i never felt more sorry for a person in my life. he attracts the 'creamiest' irresistable people who convince him of their worthiness, and then these people wage secret battles with each other for his attention (and time) under his clueless nose etc....the stuff soap operas are made of...

i was totally backstabbed, but any rage and anger was directed at the real 'liars' in that particular 'circle game.'

you throw in 'yachts' and 'G4''s (which means computer to me?) and i'm unsure what you are trying to convince me of.....

in a world/mindset of McDonald franchise managers who hide kiddy porn in their closets, dependent on an S&M lifestyle for the erection factor in our species procreation/perpetuation of more kiddie porn............you blame maharaji...................ok!

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Date: Sat, May 06, 2000 at 16:17:32 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: raina
Subject: re the G4 - there's a bigger apple ...
Message:
re the G4 - there's a bigger apple ...

... and if only JM's website was up and running, you could see some mighty fine pictures of it.

In this instance G4 = Gulfstream 4, the very same type of private jet that Steve Jobs was recently given.

That's BIG money that the Maha's managed to beg.

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Date: Sun, May 07, 2000 at 00:42:11 (GMT)
From: raina
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: Steve Jobs
Message:
ok (that's funny mixing up computers and jets! lol...) but my point is still the same....why do you (all) sound so covetous?

I want you to tell me who GAVE Steve Jobs a plane, sorry, a jet.

When you say, 'The same private jet that Jobs was GIVEN'..........i ONLY hear the word GIVEN....can you tell me who GAVE Steve Jobs a Jet? Like you ACTUALLY saw ALL the paperwork involved etc....(and even if you did....you don't know the details on M's right?) Maybe an old high school chum is an exec at Gulfstream, and they gave it to him for....for extra-ordinary reasons we just don't know about etc....far-fetched? definately, but who really knows? maybe he's test-driving it! because he's proven himself to be a worthy pilot-but no one could ever know about 'God''s part-time jobs! and he'll only use it for 20 trips? we can't know.

I'm not disputing your anger at him and your beliefs that he has access to it for the wrong reasons...but the way you discuss other people's money....sounds so....jealous.

It's like you all have blindfolds on and are swinging at little old ladies (which has great comedic value but...what's the point really?)

Again I'm not saying there is no point ok? I'm just saying I have yet to hear any hard evidence.
(For example, When Gilead Ji had his heart broken (by M specifically) is it possible he was distracted by the same thoughts that distracted him by reading 'knowlege for Sex' a few scrolls up? Seriously....even if english is not his first language, to PRETEND to get ANYONE's point when you don't really -is your own mistake! not anyone elses!

PLEASE try to just see my point? without accusing me of defending anyone! I'm just trying to challenge your efforts to make them clearer (to me).

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Date: Sun, May 07, 2000 at 01:37:20 (GMT)
From: gErRy
Email: None
To: raina
Subject: Steve Jobs
Message:
Um Raina, is everyone here *covetous* ? Did you take a poll?

And why would Dr Q be angry with Steve Job?

I know you're not defending anything but the truth here, but is your point that it is not possible to know other peoples' motivations?

It's like you all have blindfolds on and are swinging at little old ladies (which has great comedic value but...what's the point really?)

I love this word picture. You go girl !!! (I mean lady, er, women, er person, ah heck I don't know what I mean anymore)

Benedict gerry still struggling with the PC issue.

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Date: Sun, May 07, 2000 at 04:31:55 (GMT)
From: raina
Email: None
To: gErRy
Subject: uh-everyone in this thread-and that was wrong too
Message:
no not everyone...really just JM and cq, i think were the only posts i read here too-so i should have said 'yous guys'...

but i was thinking of a lot of generalizing that goes on here (myself included now! thanx for pointing that out fuckface!)

p.s. who is peeping turtle head? that made me laugh so hard this morning...jesus, m etc....pth...
i didn't realize Jim is really pissed at you huh?

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Date: Sat, May 06, 2000 at 17:46:50 (GMT)
From: jondon
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: re: the G-4
Message:
Let's not forget a full time Pilot (actually co-pilot) since God is the Pilot. A full time engineer and stewardess, ground crew, maintenance costs, fuel. This thing requires big $$$ just to sit.
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Date: Sat, May 06, 2000 at 21:44:42 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: jondon
Subject: Hey, to be fair, he doesn't need no stewardess
Message:
He's got Marolyn, right? Do you think that maybe, as a bit of anniversery fun, she dresses up in her old stewardess costume (if it still fits, of course) and they take the G$ out for a flight and maybe check into the Mile High Club or something?
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Date: Fri, May 05, 2000 at 18:49:55 (GMT)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: Maharaji's Finances
Message:
No. They might even like being the few elite who really understand the Speaker and show their gratitude, to this day. The less of them there are, the more special they become, having that understanding and that gratitude despite all the monmots who have left before them.
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Date: Fri, May 05, 2000 at 19:41:18 (GMT)
From: JW
Email: None
To: Susan
Subject: Maharaji's Finances
Message:
Yeah, but what about the propogation freaks? Isn't it an essential part of the premie culture, that there are always aspirants, new people, etc., you are supposed to be coercing into becoming cult members? If Maharaji doesn't do intro programs, you can't invite people to come and she this guy who you this is so (ahem) special. I think if I were a premie, I would be wondering why so almost nobody is receiving knowledge where I live, but thousands are, supposedly receiving knowledge in India and Mauritius.
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Date: Sat, May 06, 2000 at 16:19:21 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: if all eggs were in the wealthy premie basket?(nt)
Message:
if all eggs were in the wealthy premie basket?(nt)
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Date: Fri, May 05, 2000 at 18:20:23 (GMT)
From: Amaroo
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Questions regarding this place
Message:
I have heard that there has been intense fundraising for this place in Australia, to be some kind of 'knowledge center.' It is my understanding that the place is very remote, even within Australia itself, and clearly remote from the rest of the world.

I have also heard that there has been a shortfall in donations for Amaroo, and, as usual, North America is looked to as the major source of funds.

Is there a 'residence' at Amaroo, or is there a plan to build one there?

Has it been explained what the place is intended to do, and is here any indication that Maharaji intends to relocate there, as he tours less and less and relies on satellite feeds and DVDs instead of actual appearances? Is this is plan to avoid any publicity whatsoever, and try to hold on to his dwindling, but lucrative, followers in NA?

What other facilities are at this place, what is planned (what was the fundraising for) and how to the neighbors and authorities in Australia react to this?

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Date: Sat, May 06, 2000 at 01:12:36 (GMT)
From: ASIO
Email: None
To: Amaroo
Subject: Questions regarding this place
Message:
You are stating hearsay . It is inaccurate. The place is accessible, and the other things are pureassumption. But dream on if it makes you feel better.
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Date: Sat, May 06, 2000 at 03:23:21 (GMT)
From: JW
Email: None
To: ASIO
Subject: Why don't you answer the questions?
Message:
I did not STATE anything. I asked questions. Care to answer them so we can all benefit from your vast knowledge?
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Date: Sat, May 06, 2000 at 10:33:20 (GMT)
From: ASIO
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: Why don't you answer the questions?
Message:
No you didn't, you made suggestions. They are well out of whack....like you seem to be.
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Date: Sun, May 07, 2000 at 01:05:58 (GMT)
From: Look who is talking!!
Email: None
To: ASIO
Subject: YOU? Yes!!
Message:
We were 'devotee', remember? No...you brainwashed...can't listen...
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Date: Sat, May 06, 2000 at 02:16:14 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: ASIO
Subject: Questions regarding this place
Message:
How much are you going to pay next time to stay at his land? Just curious to know HOW MUCH IT COSTS....

TX

SB

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Date: Sat, May 06, 2000 at 14:56:45 (GMT)
From: Mr Wallaby
Email: None
To: SB
Subject: Questions regarding this place
Message:
Every time I go there ,ITS FREE!!!!
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Date: Sat, May 06, 2000 at 19:11:00 (GMT)
From: Angry
Email: None
To: Mr Wallaby
Subject: Bongo Premies are admitted for free(NT)
Message:
nt
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Date: Sat, May 06, 2000 at 16:46:24 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: Mr Wallaby
Subject: You are a lier!!
Message:
...and you know it!!

Lier in the name of the Lard of the Universe!!

hahahaha....no need for that!!

Enjoy!

SB

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Date: Fri, May 05, 2000 at 23:41:01 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: Amaroo
Subject: Yes: Imagine....
Message:
how much 'they' are going to charge for the premies to spend a week there.... He'll make a mint!! The asshole!!

SB

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Date: Fri, May 05, 2000 at 18:23:01 (GMT)
From: JW
Email: None
To: Amaroo
Subject: That was from me, sorry for the typos...
Message:
I was on a conference call while I typed it.....

What do they say about trying to do more than one thing at a time, I mean besides remembering holy name and doing nectar, of course.

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Date: Fri, May 05, 2000 at 20:18:56 (GMT)
From: Angry
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: My Suspicions/Amaroo
Message:
Ivory Rock Conference Center aka Amaroo is/was intended to be self-sufficient when once completed. The source of revenue being the use of the facilities as a retreat for Corporations. This was the official line Yurum Weiss(sp?)layed out one time while hustling $$$ for its construction.

It seems to me that every once in awhile the word is put out about a cult gathering as soon as things are completed. This is used to encourage the cult members to fork over the $$$ to hurry things along. Then, the program is cancelled. I have seen this done at least twice.

At some point I expect Fatso Ji to say that while Amaroo is nice, it is not in a practical location. At this point he can start the scam all over again in a different location.

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Date: Fri, May 05, 2000 at 20:41:24 (GMT)
From: EV-ex
Email: None
To: Angry
Subject: My Suspicions/Amaroo
Message:
Angry,

I had heard that the previous 'management' of Amaroo was recently 'fired', so they are rebuilding (the organizational structure) from scratch.

I would agree that Australia is not the most practical location to hold a surprise weekend program.

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Date: Fri, May 05, 2000 at 16:11:59 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: fitzroy@liverpool.ac.uk
To: Everyone
Subject: 't' asked an excellent question!
Message:
So often premie questions can be pretty lame, but down below 't' asked the following:

Has anything M has said ever not been true?

Rather than dismiss it outright, I think this deserves some kind of considered response, don't you think? The best place to look, of course, is in a transcript of M's own address.

NB: this does not come from his long-ago childhood when, as we all know, the god-child was a walking, talking bullshit machine. The following satsang is rather more recent - alarmingly so for any premie who still believes Maharaji gave up the 'Superior Power in Person' game twenty years ago…

>
Dear Premies...

Now, we have heard a lot. Mahatmas (instructors) have put forward a great deal of things. And today Padarthanand has also spoken...

...So, you have just heard the questions put by the people, 'What should we become? Should we become students, disciples or devotees?' When satsang was over, Padarthanand came back-stage, I asked him to come to me. I said 'Why don't you explain to people the difference in becoming a student, a devotee and a disciple?' Just ask them. Enough of questions have already been asked. And I think in most of the cases some instructors might have given wild answers, quite off the mark as if fetched from far off places, which made neither head nor tail, which carried no meaning and might have confounded the audience: 'Oh, what mahatmaji (the instructor) has said, I could not comprehend at all. But maybe it is true because it has been said by mahatmaji.' So it is just like that because I have seen enough of this world.
>
Good question, Prem, 'Why don't you explain to people the difference...' (and poor old Padarthanand - looks like the Hamster is still into the public humiliations trip...) Hey, why don't you explain to everyone the difference between becoming a student, a devotee and a disciple. Jonathan Cainer, for one, might appreciate the clarification.

A little further down...
>
Have you seen worms? Have you seen ants? I can understand what it means to be born as an ant or worm in your next birth. That's why it has been said: 'It is with great good fortune we secure this human body. It is rarely attained even by gods, as scriptures say. It is actually the means to practice Knowledge and the gateway to salvation...'
>
This is 1991. Prem Rawat is in his mid-thirties, living in the west; he has even watched nature documentaries. Yet it seems he still believes in reincarnation, salvation through realisation, and this very sweet notion that living things are somehow always provided for:
>
I admit all these things. But you just tell me one thing. Do ants go to their jobs? No. Do they get stuck in traffic jams? No. Do they pay taxes? No. Do they need to vote? No. Do they face all these worldly problems? No. Do they get two square meals a day? Yes. [Really?] Do they have a place to live? Yes. So you just tell me one thing. There are those people too who sleep on the pavements and pass their time in trouble and tribulations. Now whose situation is better? The situation of ants or the situation of those people on the pavements? You tell me, those poor people who have no place to live, no food to eat, how do they fare in this world? Have you ever seen ants begging alms? Oh, everything is provided to ants. Have you ever seen ants saying- 'Yes sir. Yes sir!' Have you seen ants doing flattery without purpose? Have you seen ants saying, 'Please forgive me, oh forgive me?' So, you just tell me, on one side there is this human being and on the other is that ant. And for ants there are no restrictions. They are going on without any restraint. Then whose lot is better?

[Hmm, do dossers on the pavement get stamped on by schoolboys? Can ants know the joy of devotion?]

Hey, there is a mulberry tree here and sweet mulberry fruits fall on the ground. A man needs a ladder. Isn't it so? Either he needs a ladder or a stick, so that he may hit the mulberry tree to make the fruits fall down. But since I came here, I have seen small pieces of fruits-not the bigger ones automatically falling down, for all those ants.
>
And if they fall down for the ants, what's to stop a human being picking them up? - Even a man without a ladder? (Did 2000 westerners really shell out thousands of dollars, marks or pounds to travel to India and listen to this drivel? Were you there, t? Did you learn something?)

During this address, Maharaji makes numerous references to this 'ideal design' argument which suggests Prem's world view is shaped by Creationist, rather than evolutionary thought:
>
The creator has left nothing incomplete far animals or birds or for men. One thing he has left to human being and that is that you can know. But where has human being utilized this privilege or potentiality of knowing things? What have human beings learned? Just see, in all spheres of life whatever man has done has caused downfall. Wars. I am flabbergasted. Oh, there is a war at this time! I think most probably two months ago everything was going fine. Everything splendid. The Berlin wall there was also demolished. And it went on this way only for two or three months at the most. After that a dead stop. Could all these intellectuals, learned ones and other people manage everything smoothly without warfare only for three months? What is this?
>
Actually, Prem, it was you who promised to run the world smoothly, without warfare, 'in your lifetime...' So leave the intellectuals, alone, heh? You might not be able to join their ranks, but at least I haven't noticed any of the world's great minds offering simplistic solutions to intractable problems.

[cont…]

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Date: Fri, May 05, 2000 at 16:56:29 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: 't' asked an excellent question! (CONTINUED)
Message:
The golden toad continues...
>
Now, let us talk something about our inner self. Not anything outside. Do you know how to go inside? Do you know what the path of devotion is! Because the modern devotees happen to be half gods and half devotees. When it is convenient, they become gods, and when they feel like it, they become devotees. That depends which role is more lucrative.
>
And what the f*** is that supposed to mean: 'half gods, half devotees..?' A bit like centaurs, perhaps? Lord of the Unicorns, indeed...
>
When they find that something is being distributed to devotees, they assume the role of a devotee; and when they see that something is being offered to gods, they put on
the mantle of gods. They act according to their convenience,. What is the meaning of becoming a devotee? What is the meaning of becoming a student? What is the meaning of becoming empty? That is most important to realize. My Master has revealed this Knowledge to me. Such a beautiful Knowledge. And how did he give it? We were playing outside. These days lots. of aspirants are waiting there. But there was no question of aspiration. We were busy playing outside. Somebody came and said, 'He (Shri Maharaji) is calling you.' In my family there was a sort of a regulation that when he called, it means something serious. In those days, during the time of Shri Maharaji, there was a pet dog named Tommy.

We were very young. And that dog used to hite everybody. He was always chained. He used to run after every one to bite them. But when Shri Maharaji came back from tours and was sitting in a chair, that dog used to sit there quietly. He (the dog)', knew quite well that if he would be nasty, he would be punished. [That doggy reference is totally irrelevant to this anecdote. I think Prem is having a wee wallow in nostalgia, here.] Anyway, the message came, 'He is calling. He is calling in the parlour. ' Now, 'calling in the parlour' indicated ,something else. If he called us into the dining room, that had other significance. If he called us to the verandah, that had different implications. If he called us into the bedroom, it meant something else - But 'calling in the parlour' was a signal of very .serious significance. His calls differed in degrees in terms of the purpose and seriousness of the situation. So he called us, 'Sit down. Do you want Knowledge?' He asked. 'Yes sir,' [Aah... whatever happened to good old Victorian discipline and respect..?] was the answer. 'Take it. This is technique one, this is the next technique and this is another one...' He gave the techniques and then said, 'Now go away. That is all. Did you understand?' That's all. But somewhere we needed to be empty. Had there been no emptiness inside, it would have been almost impossible to understand anything.

[Relax Prem, you're empty…]

'Go and do practice.' No tall talks. Within minutes he explained everything and then said, 'Well, go and play.' [Yeah, we got that the first time] And what did we give him? I did not have even a fruit. I had nothing in the name of offering to him. First he asked, 'Do you know how to do meditation?' I replied, 'Yes.' Then he said, 'Take this and this...'

But how can I describe how much grace has Maharaji showered on my life! And I know it fully well that so long as I stay a vessel of his grace, the grace would accompany me, till then. And if I cease to be the vessel, the grace would abandon me…
>
Ah yes, 'the Grace' (doesn't it take you back?) and that whole package of magical thinking that is stirred up like a nest of snakes whenever we stop to consider the blessing which our Master provides for us by means unseen...
>
...Let me tell you ,something which occurred once to me. I was at an airport where l had gone for training. The training was completed. I had a small airplane and I had to fly to Miami in this airplane, which had come back from Amsterdam the night before. There was something wrong with the plane. Its one engine was not starting. And this happened in Dallas. The weather was terribly hot. l had made all the plans' in detail and was determined to go - 'How I would leave from the airport. I would leave in a car. And this man with me would return the car. Then I would sit in that airplane and start it. I would reach Miami. There I would land. And people would take back that airplane.' The whole plan was duly chalked out by me: at what time l would leave and at what time 1 would reach there. And then I would take a meal and go to sleep. All that was meticulously planned by me.

Anyway, I reached the airport. Till then I did not know at all whether the engine had some fault. So I was quite complacent. I went to start the engine but it wouldn't budge. How is it! The engine is not starting. And I was sitting in the cockpit all the time trying very hard to start it, sweating profusely all the while. The shirt got completely drenched with sweat. The sweat is dripping down, coming into the eyes; there is a burning sensation in the eyes. I was desperate. [Jeez, that is some crown of thorns...] Just let it start and no sooner it starts, I will take off and when I begin to cruise at a higher altitude, it would be cool. Then it would be O.K. But the engine just stuck there, it did not start.

Then I left the airplane in a hurry and asked that person who was accompanying me to go and buy at least two tickets. [money no object then…] I told him to find any flight. All the seats in the plane were full. But somehow he got two tickets as two passengers did not turn up. That's why only two tickets were available. So we flew.
>
Ok, you all got that? The plane wouldn't start, which causes the Master intolerable suffering, caused by sweat in the eye department, so Prem sends a minion to check last minute cancellations. They are in luck: two tickets -just what tbey needed - just like thousands all over tbe world pick up on last minute cancellations, daily. But was it luck in this instance..?
>
I was reflecting upon the whole chain of incidents. I was reproaching the crew who brought that plane, 'Oh these rascals, they brought this airplane. They had flown it yesterday. They were fully aware that the engine was defective, had they even let me know before, the problem would have been rectified the previous night. They are great scoundrels.' And I was sitting in that airplane. Well, it flew towards Miami then I thought, what was the reality? On one .side I could blame everybody, and at that time I was thinking that somebody would pay for it. Then again I remembered that I had my own plan, and that Supreme Planner had his plan too for me. There were thus two plans. There was one plan of mine and another plan of my Master. So I recollected that how could my plan succeed in face of the plan of my Maharaji? Whatever plans I had made, they were bound to crumble. But what a great fortune was that in the plan of Maharaji also, I had to go to Miami. He did all that. And I did not know even from what calamity he saved me. [my emphasis] It was also possible that there might have been more problems in that airplane, which I did not know. But I am ready to accept whatever Maharaji has in store for me. That l don't know. A devotee doesn't know.
>
Let's unpick this a little. Leaving aside the paradox of Prem not knowing what Master has in store for him, yet he, presumably, as Master, knows what is in store for his own devotees, let's look instead at the underlying philosophical assumption. Both in his talk of ants being provided for and in this airport near-catastrophe, there is the assumption of all being as it should be, of the Supreme planner having everything under control.

Omniscient and Omnipresent - an interventionist power in person...

I remember listening to Anne Johnston telling aspirants how Maharaji had worked ut every little detail of her life with such precision that she no longer had to think about anything. She surrendered, and the Grace took care of the rest... I also remember that on tbe same day in 1978, twenty thousand lranians were killed in an earthquake; ordinary people, religious and non-religious people alike; little kiddies, sweet old ladies - all crushed by falling masonry while they were having their tea, taking a bath, listening to a bedtime story or whatever... I remember the twinge of dissonance as I listened to Maharaji's mahatma speaking of his eternal benevolence, but I suppose I must have quelled the momentary doubts by taking the cosmic view: whatever happened to those poor Persian souls must be no more than a blip on the face of eternity...just Karma for past-life offences, or something.

Otherwise, you'd have to ask yourself how supreme is the supreme planner? How benign? Did he/she/Maharaj Ji craft those cunning little bugs that worm their way into the of eyes of African kiddies and cause river blindness? The HIV virus? How about the gene for Huntingtons?

Or if animals are provided for, how come 99% of all species that ever lived are now extinct? Creatures become extinct when they are no longer provided for. Does Prem know that? - or would that be a bit too intellectual for him?

Looks like a supreme planner with pretty warped sense of humour. I remember CD mentioned the Infinite being 'mischievous...' Looks more like, at worst, sadistic cruelty or, at best, blind indifference to me.

And it goes on, and on... same old Hindu garbage... blah, blah, divine authority of Master, ancient lineage, drivel, drivel... till in a grand messianic flourish, Prem ends his address thus:
>
So far I have not met anyhody who is worthy of this Knowledge and worthy of the
of the Master…

>
All I can say is anyone who can swallow this stuff without retching deserves a big shiny medal.

t: M's world-view is still chock-full of superstitious, unsubstantiated garbage and extravagant claims regarding his own divinity. Or perhaps that IS you idea of truth..?

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Date: Fri, May 05, 2000 at 21:26:51 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: You ruined it!
Message:
Hi!

Now T is not going to come back! hahahaha....

Denial...is a word erased from the premies' vocabulary?

Good work, Nigel!

love,
S

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Date: Fri, May 05, 2000 at 22:00:52 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: SB
Subject: He was already gone! (nt)
Message:
He was already gone! (nt)
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Date: Fri, May 05, 2000 at 23:42:33 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: Stonor
Subject: Got it! ROFL nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Fri, May 05, 2000 at 16:39:52 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: Good post, Nige
Message:
1991 you say? Amazing. What a goof, huh? If Maharaji's trip allowed for any dialogue at all he'd fall instantly. Even without wanting to, his followers would unravel him with basic, follow-up questions.
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Date: Fri, May 05, 2000 at 23:29:34 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Fuck you Heller, you rotten, LYING piece of shit
Message:
asdf
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Date: Fri, May 05, 2000 at 23:38:51 (GMT)
From: Gregg
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: gerry, maybe this will help:
Message:
gerry, gerry, gerry...I think you're meditating too much. Remember, the Lord CHANGED his COMMANDMENTS. You're not supposed to be In The Word 24-7 any more...just FIFTEEN MINUTES A DAY!

(And don't forget your meds.)

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Date: Fri, May 05, 2000 at 23:45:41 (GMT)
From: gErRy
Email: None
To: Gregg
Subject: Ah sweet relief...
Message:
Ah yes, my meds. I ran out. I knew something wasn't quite right.

I never got a goddam thing out meditation, Gregg, did you? I think I recall your having a teacher of sorts. Who is this person, if you don't mind my asking.

(I'm not really on meds, just kidding and the PC police are gonna get you for that one.)

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Date: Sat, May 06, 2000 at 02:05:06 (GMT)
From: Well if you don't want em
Email: None
To: gErRy
Subject: can I have your meds Gerry? NT
Message:
nt
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Date: Sat, May 06, 2000 at 02:13:01 (GMT)
From: I DON'T TAKE MEDS...
Email: None
To: YOU MEAN PERSON
Subject: AND NO YOU CAN'T HAVE ANY...
Message:
whaddyu give me for 'em?
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Date: Fri, May 05, 2000 at 23:52:01 (GMT)
From: Madam Lash
Email: None
To: gErRy
Subject: Show us your tits Gerry!!!!....nt
Message:
asrklhjkjgvjfghggvjmhth l;k,iiiiill/bfuytu
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Date: Sat, May 06, 2000 at 00:32:29 (GMT)
From: gErRy
Email: None
To: Madam Lash
Subject: Here they ARE !!!
Message:
If ya got em flaunt em
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Date: Sat, May 06, 2000 at 00:18:26 (GMT)
From: raina
Email: None
To: whoever
Subject: FUCK YOU HELLER YOU ROTTEN PIECE OF SHIT!
Message:
it rolls off the tongue!
who's heller?
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Date: Sun, May 07, 2000 at 18:54:27 (GMT)
From: Heller=Jim
Email: None
To: raina
Subject: nt
Message:
IS JIM!!
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Date: Sat, May 06, 2000 at 16:28:28 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: raina
Subject: Who's Heller! Hahahahahahahha ...(nt)
Message:
Who's Heller! Hahahahahahahha ...(nt)
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Date: Sat, May 06, 2000 at 00:22:03 (GMT)
From: Madam Lash
Email: None
To: raina
Subject: That's easy for you to say
Message:
ghhf
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Date: Fri, May 05, 2000 at 15:38:55 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: ANOTHER 'no joke' virus! (watch out cq!)
Message:
>
> ******VIRUS ALERTE*******
>
>
> Une alerte a été émise ce matin concernant le virus Funny jokes ou very
> funny, aussi un virus similaire écrit en Russe .
> Si vous recevez un courriel intitulé FUNNY JOKES et VERY FUNNY, ne
> l'ouvrez pas. Comme le virus Mélissa l'an dernier et I LOVE YOU hier, il
> se propage à une très grande vitesse saturant les systèmes de courrier
> électronique. Les premiers rapports ne mentionnent pas toutefois de
> dommage aux données ou aux PCs.
>
> Merci
>
> *******VIRUS ALERT*********
>
> A new virus alert has been issued this morning. The virus is FUNNY JOKES
> or VERY FUNNY and also a message sent in russian could be seen.If you
> receive an email titled FUNNY JOKES or VERY FUNNY, don't open it. Like the
> Melissa virus, the virus is propagating rapidly, shutting down email
> system. Early reports don't mention any damages to the data or the
> workstation.
>
> Thank you
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Date: Fri, May 05, 2000 at 14:31:31 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: How amazingly sincere, humble and unaffected!
Message:
From ELK:

My master's magic touch

When my master
touches my heart just once,
within my heart there is a joy
which exceeds the happiness
of all the world's medals and challenge cups.
Just one touch exceeds all the world's rewards

I know: I've been rewarded so many times
And only because
I have put in what little effort I have within.

Stojan Svet
Postojna, Slovenia

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Date: Fri, May 05, 2000 at 15:22:08 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Fuck you Heller you piece of shit (nt)
Message:
dsafg
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Date: Fri, May 05, 2000 at 14:51:04 (GMT)
From: Underdog
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: How amazingly sincere, humble and unaffected!
Message:
My Master's magic touch

When my master tugs, with just the right strenth,
on my choke collar
I am filled with Gratitude

For He, not I
Knows that I should not shit on the neighbors lawn

When my Master rolls up the New York Times
and swats my rump
the sounds fills my being with respect
and awe
And I know that the steak
on the counter
was a tempatation
and a test
I am so grateful
He is teaching me

When my Master eats steak
I am filled with Joy
For I know that I deserve
only Kibbles and Bits

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Date: Fri, May 05, 2000 at 21:29:13 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: Underdog
Subject: How amazingly sincere... ROFL nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Fri, May 05, 2000 at 15:06:42 (GMT)
From: Underdog
Email: None
To: Underdog
Subject: the above it titled 'Submissive Wetting'
Message:
or 'I piss the floor at the sound of His voice'
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Date: Fri, May 05, 2000 at 15:18:52 (GMT)
From: Underdog
Email: None
To: Underdog
Subject: hey, I spent two or three minutes working on this
Message:
poem isn't anyone going to show a modicum of respect for my efforts?
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Date: Fri, May 05, 2000 at 16:02:02 (GMT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: Underdog
Subject: hey, I spent two or three minutes working on this
Message:
Well Underdog, I enjoyed the hell out of it! :)
Robyn
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Date: Fri, May 05, 2000 at 14:29:04 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Would you want her as a roommate?
Message:
From ELK:

Begging and digging treasure

Everyday that I am alive is a gift to me !
Everyday I can dig up my treasure
Celebrate the gift of my joy.
I really like wearing the jewels of happiness
Stuffing my pockets full of golden gratitude
Bliss is the wealthy guest always welcome in my house
I really love courting my heart
By listening to Maharaji and practicing Knowledge
The amazing magic of life, a heart full of love
opens inside of me, and I am rich beyond knowing
Happy happy, joy joy
I understand the reason for my very existence
Discovering and digging up the treasure
buried in my heart
Everyday I can enjoy my wealth
Delighting in bliss
Begging, wanting the humility, the sincerity to be with my heart
Seems like hard work digging some days
but it is definitely worth it
What else is ?
All I can take with me at the end
is a heart full of bliss :)

Janice Wilson
Baldwinsville, NY, USA

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Date: Sat, May 06, 2000 at 12:11:25 (GMT)
From: james flynn
Email: not given
To: Jim
Subject: Would you want her as a roommate?
Message:
Please Don't quit your day job!
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Date: Sat, May 06, 2000 at 11:33:24 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: premies
Subject: Jim: Would you want her as a roommate? NO!!!!
Message:
Same language as Lard....same words....and premies have trouble seing the brainwashing effect? It's sad, very sad...

Please Jim, keep posting this garbage: It speaks for itself!!

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Date: Fri, May 05, 2000 at 16:48:48 (GMT)
From: Tina
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Yes, as a decorative ottoman. (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Fri, May 05, 2000 at 16:27:32 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: That 'blissfuller than thou' trip ... peeeuuw!(nt)
Message:
That 'blissfuller than thou' trip ... peeeuuw!(nt)
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Date: Fri, May 05, 2000 at 15:22:44 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Fuck you Heller you piece of shit (nt)
Message:
asdf
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Date: Fri, May 05, 2000 at 14:44:58 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Happy Happy Joy Joy
Message:
Is there an echo on ELK?

Anth Anth

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Date: Fri, May 05, 2000 at 15:23:08 (GMT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Happy Happy Joy Joy
Message:
Hey do you have Ren and Stimpy over there! I LOVE that cartoon!
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Date: Fri, May 05, 2000 at 14:25:48 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Anyone read 1984?
Message:
From ELK:

Now

Breath comes from NOW
Birth is NOW
Death is NOW
Knowledge is NOW
I acknowledge my life NOW
Feeling my breath NOW
I accept this Life NOW
Feeling my breath NOW
I open my heart NOW
Feeling this feeling NOW
I open my heart NOW
Enjoying this feeling NOW
Understanding of the self is NOW
Admiration is NOW
Celebration is NOW
Freedom is NOW
Loving is NOW
Adoring is NOW
BEING is NOW
GOD is NOW

Eleni Kyriakopoulou
Athens, Greece


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Date: Fri, May 05, 2000 at 15:23:47 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Fuck you Heller you piece of shit (nt)
Message:
asdf
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Date: Fri, May 05, 2000 at 15:27:33 (GMT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Fuck you Heller you piece of shit (nt)
Message:
Geeze Gerry, mad at Jim?
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Date: Fri, May 05, 2000 at 15:33:56 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Robyn
Subject: Fuck you Heller you piece of shit (nt)
Message:
No i've just had an enlightenment concerning him, that piece of shit.
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Date: Fri, May 05, 2000 at 17:32:28 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: fitzroy@liverpool.ac.uk
To: gerry
Subject: What's going on Gerry?
Message:
You may have your reasons, Gerry, but since this is a public place, I reckon a word of explanation is in order, don't you think?

What you're doing right now might just be in fun but we've seen some serious harrassment here in the past and that's certainly how your 'piece of shit' posts would appear to anyone passing through.

I thought you guys had met in real life. Had a good time and stuff...

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Date: Fri, May 05, 2000 at 16:00:54 (GMT)
From: C.G. Jung
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Fuck you Heller you piece of shit (nt)
Message:
What was your enlightenment? You've piqued my curiosity, and whatever it was, it's certainly freed you up.
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Date: Fri, May 05, 2000 at 14:46:50 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: At least this one rhymes (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Fri, May 05, 2000 at 03:20:00 (GMT)
From: Rob
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Invitation (OT)
Message:
I have just started a forum for anyone interested in writing (stories, poetry etc). All are welcome.

Wanton Scribes

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Date: Fri, May 05, 2000 at 03:22:55 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Rob
Subject: Speaking of invitations .....
Message:
You were going to call. What happened?
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Date: Fri, May 05, 2000 at 15:24:19 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Fuck you Heller you piece of shit (nt)
Message:
asdf
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Date: Sat, May 06, 2000 at 17:17:13 (GMT)
From: Elaine B.
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Fuck you Heller you piece of shit (nt)
Message:
Gerry,
Everytime I see this - and going back doing catch up- I saw it ALOT. I burst out laughing - I mean after the fourth time or so.
Whether you're serious or not - it's quite funny.Thanks for the laugh.

E.

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Date: Fri, May 05, 2000 at 03:43:28 (GMT)
From: Rob
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Speaking of invitations .....
Message:
Lost in my work (and play). I will, still have your number. Are you anywhere near Toronto? I'll be up there in July, maybe we could meet up?

Finding some relief in not talking about M. actually - got through first big hurdle today - not going down to miami event. Temptation was strong, despite everything, but commonsense and logic prevailed, not peer pressure (another reason for keeping away from discussions..Katie was right again)

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Date: Fri, May 05, 2000 at 03:47:58 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Rob
Subject: sorry Rob about post below.
Message:
I had to taunt Jim......
ugh, you REaLLy didn't want to do Miami..
but then I did too, in a sick way. I wanted to see if they had
my picture. No one here gives a shit.

OK now Selene it's day 5
GO TO SLEEP

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Date: Fri, May 05, 2000 at 03:30:28 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: he called me instead
Message:
and so it ends.
begins??
you know ..
I have new members here to take the helm....

'selene come undone'

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Date: Fri, May 05, 2000 at 03:12:03 (GMT)
From: Gilead
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Setting Up Debate with Dr. Albert Ellis and M.
Message:
05.04.00
Wouldn't is be funny is Albert Ellis, the founder of the school of Rational Emotive Behavior Therapy, had a debate with Maharaji? Dr. Ellis is so firm in challenging irrational beliefs, raising his voice in a way that only he can do, Maharaji wouldn't know how to handle it. Even though he is now 86 years old, he still carries himself well. He is 'impolite' when it comes to challenging someone's irrational ideas. He has also been known to curse when clients don't get it.
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Date: Fri, May 05, 2000 at 17:06:35 (GMT)
From: JW
Email: None
To: Gilead
Subject: Are You Kidding???
Message:
Prem Pal Singh Rawat can barely string three words together in a coherent sentence, let along 'debate' anyone. Ever notice how his 'introductory programs,' at least in North America, over the years have resulted in a tiny number of people becomming interested and receiving knowledge? When he speaks, he doesn't make any sense, except to premies, who don't even listen to what he says, really, they just zombie-out and sit there trying to be blissed out.

The reason for his babbling, despite being a 'speaker' for his entire life, is that Maharaji has never, in his life, gotten any feedback that he is a LOUSY speaker. In fact, I saw a video some time ago, I think from 1998, in which Maharaji said that even though he had a really nice house and everything he wanted, he wasn't going to retire, because he said: 'I am really good at what I do; I have the ability to explain things simply so people can understand them.'

That sure isn't how I saw it, nor the people I brought to those introductory programs, who either fell asleep, or, as we walked out asked me: 'Was there some POINT to that?'

I recall in 1981, Maharaji gave an introductory program in San Francisco at Davies Symphony Hall. He was, as usual, rambling and incoherent in what he said. After that, I think 5 people came to a follow-up program, and out of that, NO ONE came to one again, despite to having premies as 'friends'. So much for his ability to simply convince people that they needed, or even should want, knowledge or him.

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Date: Fri, May 05, 2000 at 13:10:46 (GMT)
From: Dr Zeus
Email: None
To: Gilead
Subject: Setting Up Debate with Dr. Albert Ellis and M.
Message:
According to reports on the forum and elsewhere, sessions have been set up with Maharaji and psychiatrists on different occasions, and the result has always been the same. He doesn't open up and co-operate.

A post a few weeks ago described an 'alcoholic intervention' session a few years ago, with Maharaji, Marylin, Jean-Marie Bontou (?) and someone else who I can't remember- maybe Mike Detmers.

Apparently the two psychiatrists at the session said they'd never met anyone so closed and unco-operative. Jean Marie was apparently sent into 'exile' until he apologised, and, during the lunch break on the first day, Maharaji is reported to have threatened Marylin with her not being allowed to see the children again if she didn't support him in his resistance to what was going on. Of course, the session ended in a mess, and he carried on being the Lord, business as usual.

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Date: Fri, May 05, 2000 at 14:54:30 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Dr Zeus
Subject: To be fair, Dettmers denies all of this
Message:
For the record, this story came up a month ago when Dettmers was posting a bit. He specifically denied any such meeting, at least one involving him. Instead, he said Maharaji met with some organizational 'guru' (if you know what I mean) and his assistant at the same luxury ranch / retreat/ meeting place near Santa Barbara where the alleged alcoholic intervention occurred. The person who initially told us about that blessed event hasn't yet offered any proof as to why he or she may be right, or explained how he or she got this information.

I can only add this: I've now spoken with that person and I find their explanation impressive. That's all I can say though. Do I think I know enough now to say that Dettmers isn't telling the truth, and that this alcohol intervention did indeed take place and that, in fact, he was there? No. I can only say it's all up in the air for me now. Dettmers has categorically denied the story when discussing it with me. I'm not at liberty to confront him with anything more specific. Not now anyway.

I'd like to because I think it's important to get to the bottom of this story which has to be one of, if not the very most, disturbing story about Maharaji ever. What if this flim flam pedaller of 'world peace' and 'god realization' is nothing but a drunk? Interesting? To his followers, past or present, I'm sure it is.

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Date: Fri, May 05, 2000 at 23:51:26 (GMT)
From: Gilead
Email: None
To: Jim/Dr. Zeus
Subject: Getting back to that proposed, historic debate....
Message:
Maybe because I'm a psychologist, I happen to have had the honor of working with Dr. Ellis. He is a rationalist and secular humanist, but at the same time has a nontraditional, humorous approach with his clients. He would have a way of making Mr. M.'s ramblings stand out as a hilarious joke, and might even get Mr. M himself laughing at his self (as healthy people do).
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Date: Fri, May 05, 2000 at 16:52:20 (GMT)
From: JW
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Well, Jim.....not exactly
Message:
I believe Mr. Dettmers did not actually deny that those events occurred, but said, at least as reported here, that he recalled another meeting at the same place on another subject. So, that isn't actually a denial that it happened.

Again, Maharaji's drinking problems are common knowledge among a large number of premies and ex-premies, and have been for 20 years.

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Date: Fri, May 05, 2000 at 17:01:35 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: Fuck you, Joe, you piece of shit
Message:
Joe,

Dettmers did indeed deny that he was ever at such a meeting. No question about it. I know he did so on the phone to me and I'm sure he did so here as well. When asked if perhaps there was another meeting at that same ranch where he says they met with the organization expert (San Ysidro?), he said he was unaware of any such meeting and certainly never attended one himself. To be clear, his opinion about whether or not it could have happened under his nose without his knowledge was that that was near impossible. I agree.

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Date: Fri, May 05, 2000 at 17:29:40 (GMT)
From: anonymous poster
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: think Jim
Message:
The answer is in your post

Feel the force Jim.


It might help to think about your legal world, in how one can answer a question truthfully, but deceptively.....

Maybe you asked the wrong question....?

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Date: Fri, May 05, 2000 at 17:48:07 (GMT)
From: Is fuck you __ you piece
Email: None
To: anonymous poster
Subject: of shit the ex premie Jai Satchitanand?
Message:
nt
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Date: Sat, May 06, 2000 at 14:39:09 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Is fuck you __ you piece
Subject: the ex premie Jai Satchitanand? ROTFL
Message:
Sure looks like it, don't it - snicker!

Your post was very funny - thanks for the laugh!

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Date: Fri, May 05, 2000 at 17:15:26 (GMT)
From: JW
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Jim, don't be such a fucking prick
Message:
If that's true it's new information. This is, excatly what you said Dettmers told you and it isn't what you just posted.

1) Hi Jim

2) There was indeed a meeting at San Ysidro in the early to mid eighties. As Mike recalls, persons present included himself, Maharaji, Marolyn, Joan Apter, Jean Marie and a famous organizational 'guru', renowned author in the field, Bill Schutz. Schutz' assistant was also there. The meeting was all about how to best redirect or re-orient the premies' efforts in pursuing Maharaji's goals in the new post-ashram period. There was no alcoholic intervention.

This ditty does not in any way deny that no acoholic intervention occurred, only that there was a different meeting which was not an alcoholic intervention.

And as we know, we have heard first hand reports that Jean-Marie says there was such an intervention, whether that was the same meeting or another one, I don't know.

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Date: Fri, May 05, 2000 at 17:26:16 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: You asshole!
Message:
Okay, then I guess it's 'new information'. Dettmers did indeed deny attendance at or knowledge of an alcoholic intervention. Moreover, as I said, he siad it was pretty well unfathomable that such a momentous event could have transpired without his knowledge.
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Date: Fri, May 05, 2000 at 17:47:49 (GMT)
From: JW
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Thank you for the new information brother.......
Message:
Stop with the cuss words, okay? It obscures the good things that are happening here.
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Date: Fri, May 05, 2000 at 18:37:44 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: Sure, I agree -- but you played too (nt)
Message:
ff
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Date: Fri, May 05, 2000 at 22:48:42 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: FYI, this exchange of 'FU's was just a joke
Message:
This particular exchange of 'fuck you's between Joe and me was just a joke. I started it to make fun of Gerry' baby tantrum elsewhere on the page where he was finding all my posts and pissing on them. But Joe's absolutely right. This is unseemly.
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Date: Sat, May 06, 2000 at 17:25:14 (GMT)
From: Elaine B.
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: FYI, this exchange of 'FU's was just a joke
Message:
Jim,
I knew that immediately.
Elaine
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Date: Fri, May 05, 2000 at 23:10:19 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Fuck you Heller your Rotten piece of shit
Message:
better? You're the most unseemly thing around here...
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Date: Fri, May 05, 2000 at 15:24:58 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Fuck you Heller you piece of shit (nt)
Message:
asdf
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Date: Fri, May 05, 2000 at 05:02:44 (GMT)
From: James Flynn
Email: not given
To: Gilead
Subject: Setting Up Debate with Dr. Albert Ellis and M.
Message:
I am quite familiar with R.E.T. and Dr. Albert Ellis. I took some training from Dr. Maxie Maultsby in using R.E.T. with recovering drug addicts. I am quite sure that a debate between Dr. Ellis and the Big M would be the quintessential battle of the wits with an unarmed person! M probably would never be able to show his in public ever again!
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Date: Sat, May 06, 2000 at 00:46:13 (GMT)
From: Gilead
Email: None
To: James Flynn
Subject: Setting Up Debate with Dr. Albert Ellis and M.
Message:
It would turn out to be a comedy, as Dr. Ellis would not waver, and would confront M about his irrational beliefs. Dr. Ellis isn't very sympathetic to magical thinking or cults. I wonder if M could maintain his self as the calm 'Master', or if he would walk off the stage, when the audience started laughing?
He would only be able to go in circles with his talk of 'simplicity of existence, gratitude to the Master, etc.' and he would get knock out punches intellectually from Dr. Ellis. Then too, with Dr. Ellis being 86, or maybe 87, his being an older man-considered a genius, would give him more weight in not letting M get away with irrational beliefs and how his behaviors are self defeating to the premies. I would buy that video, for sure. I wonder if M would meet the criteria for a Narcisistic Personality Disorder and or the AntiSocial Personality Disorder?
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Date: Fri, May 05, 2000 at 03:06:04 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: 'Quantum Metaphysics'
Message:
Here is a link to an web page that discusses the multidimensional nature of reality:

Revolution in Common Sense or Quantum Metaphysics

the author's home page

I don't necessarily agree with all the statements on the web page nor have I read all the content, but what I read was interesting.

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Date: Fri, May 05, 2000 at 20:42:19 (GMT)
From: Mark A
Email: Apple4256@datastreet.com
To: G
Subject: 'Quantum Metaphysics'
Message:
This indeed is the direction of the growth of thought and understanding as we stumble into the 21st century. The LA times has recently included two wonderful Page 1 articles on the nature of things within the theoretical physics community. One explains the mathematical and energetic necessity of there being 11 or so dimensions-tied into superstring,which i'm sure the resident skeptics will pounce on with full glee.The second described an almost cardboard style model for reality and perception-it reminded me of the movie the Matrix.

I'm no scientist, but I'm certain that science,metaphysics,self-realisation(not guru realization),and ecologic, economic and political models will merge in a wider collective thought landscape or bandwidth than is currently in place.It must . While DLM/Elan/ELK is clearly a cult,it seems clear that the earth's collective and individual self-view is cultlike as well in its narrowness.There certainly is some matrix is place,tho we may disagree on specifics.

Our multidimensionality is the the working model for most of the information that is getting discovered from historical Hawaiian Tibetian and Egyptian mystery schools as well as the off planet communities & channels. Physical 3rd,emotional 4th,mental5th, spiritual 6th, and our soul monadic and I Am levels functioning at higher frequencies. Obviously with thought emotion and spirit invisible and immeseasureable, there is more than meets the eye.

Not to mention ideas being introduced in movie FICTION like The Matrix, Frequency, Contact, Being John M,Dark City,ET,Men in Black & others,and the theory of MEMES discussed here.Bigger more Visionary and Allowing MEMES are certainly called for here.

Images that allow us to allow ourselves to outgrow self imposed limitations.Gurus like M thrive because they provide images that let us empower ourselves to outgrow one set of restraints(sadly for another. Though an argument can be made that we are all just hitchiking belief systems. At least choose one that puts YOU at the top of the heap !)

in that context knowledge techniques are technologies for accessing multidimensionality. Unfortunately,premies recieved
incomplete technological transmissions, and have unfortunately cast their lot with someone with limited understanding. . .

there are 1001 technologies available (many,tho not all,interestingly accessible through use of the memes known as intention,allowance,and imagination-forms of self-DEVOTION)

Happy Cinco de Mayo.

Mark

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Date: Sun, May 07, 2000 at 22:22:06 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: Mark A
Subject: 'Quantum Metaphysics' Thanks G and Mark A!
Message:
Enjoyed both your posts. Two more reasons why I'll probably drop by for a while.
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Date: Mon, May 08, 2000 at 01:51:13 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: G and Mark A
Subject: Have you checked out his Addendum?
Message:
Wolf gets into some rather unusual/surprising (?!) ground there, but despite that, what fascinates me is the number of varied sources with analogously equivalent ideas. Commonality of threads, through a diverse number of sources, has been an important focus for me in my reading over the years.
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Date: Fri, May 05, 2000 at 02:54:14 (GMT)
From: Gilead
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: Bishop Jim Jones and the Peoples Temple
Message:
Thanks for your comments about the Reverend Jim Jones and Guru Maharaj Ji. If you were defense counsel for Larry Layton, what did you think of his sister, Debbie? Do you know how I could request a FOIA on the vidoes that were used in Larry Layton's trials, who to contact? Or, do you have copies you could share? I learned from the FBI that they gave the State Department in Georgetown six crates of videos! I'll bet those videos have a lot to reveal, and it is suspicious that the FBI would turn them over to the State Department, but then take the audio tapes. I've listened to that last tape, where Jones asks that they 'get Dwyer out of here, before something happens to him'. Do you think Jones was in any way tied to the CIA? The facts are that the CIA witnessed the assasinations at Port Kaituma, of Congressman Leo Ryan, Don Harris, Patty Parks, and the others. I'd like to get a reach Debbie Layton if I had her address. I've talked to Stephan Jones, and Stanley Clayton, about their experiences, and also briefly met James Jones Jr. at the 20th year memorial at Oakland. Do you go to those memorials? Can you email me, so we can talk a little about these things? My own research keeps going in circles. One thing that M never gained, was the kind of social respect that Jim Jones had, especially in the mid 1970's -- Willie Brown, Harvey Milk, the State's Lt. Governor, and even being the key note for the Nation of Islam, when Warith Deen Muhammad took over--a remarkable achievement politically for one who appeared white (even though he claimed to be Native American at times).
Jim Jones even had the honor of a private meeting with Mrs. Carter, the President's wife. I can't see M getting this kind of prestige at the political level. Jones was also honored by the San Francisco NAACP. Interestingly, all of Jones's former friends act as if they don't remember being a friend to this preacher. Oh yes, he also, contrary to many fast selling books, was a part of the mainline Protestant denomination of the Disciples of Christ, as an ordained minister. His churches gave generously to the denomination, and so they didn't want to loose that kind of financial support. Even at Jonestown, the Agricultural Mission was tied to the Disciples of Christ denomination (the Disciples try to shy away from this fact).
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Date: Fri, May 05, 2000 at 04:21:14 (GMT)
From: GILEAD
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: Any comments????
Message:
hope you see the inquiry
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Date: Fri, May 05, 2000 at 14:08:15 (GMT)
From: Marianne
Email: Mariannedb@aol.com
To: GILEAD
Subject: Any comments????
Message:
We should discuss this off line. Email me. I'm in Ireland til May 16. Then I return to SF. It sounds like you are in the Bay Area. When did you receive k?
Were you part of the SF premie community?

The CIA operative who witnessed the Port Kaituma attack was probably Dwyer.

Marianne

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Date: Sat, May 06, 2000 at 01:37:10 (GMT)
From: Gilead
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Any comments????
Message:
Anyone else out there familiar with Peoples Temple?
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Date: Fri, May 05, 2000 at 02:47:30 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Travolta wins an Award!
Message:
Insect of the Week!!! in one of Montreal's alt rags, The Mirror:

John Travolta The high-profile Hollywood actor and Scientologist showed his mug on local TV last weekend promoting Battlefield Earth, a film based on a book by Scientology founder L. Ron Hubbard. But Travolta opted out from any print media interviews in what media pundits say was a move to duck any harsh questioning about the Scientology movement. The popular, pricey cult has a reputation for using creepy recruitment tactics on newcomers, and for hard-nosed intimidation of defectors and critics.

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Date: Fri, May 05, 2000 at 02:24:23 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: missing posts in archives?
Message:
Just tried to get a post from Apr. 20 - May 2, section 1. It's listed, but there is a whole chunk of text missing at the end. Hope you can find it! (or help me find it)
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Date: Fri, May 05, 2000 at 09:32:31 (GMT)
From: Brian
Email: brian@ex-premie.org
To: Stonor
Subject: missing posts in archives?
Message:
I'm assuming that you mean 'part A' when you say 'section 1'. That page is 218K bytes long, and you have to wait for the entire page (particularly the bottom) to load before you can click on a post in the index. Otherwise, you'll have a 'missing' chunk of text.
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Date: Mon, May 08, 2000 at 00:44:18 (GMT)
From: Brat
Email: None
To: Brian
Subject: Yeah, but what about me....
Message:
In a thread I'm talking to nobody!! I'm not THAT crazy!! I responded to a message..

triple ROFL....for real, Hal pointed to it!

Very funny!! NOT!

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Date: Fri, May 05, 2000 at 13:02:58 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: Brian
Subject: missing posts in archives?
Message:
Thanks Brian, I'll try again. My computer was loading very slowly last night. I just checked and it's all there. I won't forget to wait another time!

Thanks, and hello to Katie.

Stonor

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Date: Fri, May 05, 2000 at 15:07:19 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: Stonor
Subject: PS: archives fine - Ignore this thread- sorry!
Message:
PS: archives fine - Ignore this thread- sorry!
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Date: Fri, May 05, 2000 at 22:06:21 (GMT)
From: Brian
Email: brian@ex-premie.org
To: Stonor
Subject: No problem
Message:
Your post caught my eye since I still have to figure out why the archiver now believes that all archives start on March 25, 2000. Weird bug...

And Katie says 'hi' :)

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Date: Thurs, May 04, 2000 at 23:32:48 (GMT)
From: cq (moved up by blood)
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Arya Samaj post is too cool to leave buried below
Message:
cq wrote;


It took me ages to load, but I found this:

http://www.aryasamaj.com



and these pics might interest Jean-Michel:

http://www.aryasamaj.com/pioneers.htm

Just why they pissed off DLM in the early days, I don't yet know. Any archivists out there?

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Date: Fri, May 05, 2000 at 00:41:53 (GMT)
From: Runamok
Email: None
To: cq (moved up by blood)
Subject: Arya Samaj
Message:
I can't remember who pissed off who (i.e., AS or 'Shri' Hans), and I confuse Aryo Samaj with some other group that 'Shri' Hans was a part of.

However, you might get more info about the falling out by sending polite email to the addresses on those sites, identifying yourself as an ex-premie.

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Date: Sat, May 06, 2000 at 22:07:47 (GMT)
From: Know All
Email: None
To: Runamok
Subject: Arya Samaj
Message:
I remember Arya Samaj in India in the seventies. They were protesting D.L.Mission by disrupting a D.V. M. march with protest banners etc, all in Hindi. I have often wondered what they were protesting and did a little research. They don't believe that God takes human form. Basically that's it.

Love,

Know All

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Date: Sat, May 06, 2000 at 23:10:25 (GMT)
From: Runamok
Email: None
To: Know All
Subject: pretty cool nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Thurs, May 04, 2000 at 20:37:37 (GMT)
From: la-ex
Email: None
To: way
Subject: 9 objections
Message:
Way-nice writing. I think you summarize a lot of good points.If it were me, I would make sure I was comfortable with everything, before I did anything with it, as you want the first reading to have the most impact.I don't think you would want to add anything to it, once you sent it out, so I would wait until everything felt right to lyou, and you had a lot of feedback.Maybe you already do, I don't know.
One thing I might add, is that although m promises these great gifts such as tranquility, peace, harmony, contentment, love etc.,according to people who lived with him, his personal life is far from these things.Isn't that something that he should address?If he, as supposed master, doesn't live these things, who else will?
Related to that,if a person has a master who says he can show him God, that master is of course very important in his life,right?Does that person have the right to know if his master is an alcoholic, or is emotionally unstable?Shouldn't he know a little about the driver of the vehicle, before he hitches up his wagon behind him?
What happens to the innocent premie who tells someone about m at work, and the person subsequently finds out all these negative, but true things about m?That premie takes the hit, maybe loses his job or is at least blackballed in some way or another, all because his master(who already knows he has this baggage)won't tell him the truth.So the premie, who m says is 'dearer to me than my own breath' because he spreads knowledge,has his life screwed up because his master is irresponsible and won't admit to his own failings.
Just a few thoughts...maybe you covered them already..
Good luck with your work...
LA
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Date: Fri, May 05, 2000 at 02:16:48 (GMT)
From: raina
Email: None
To: la-ex
Subject: Master Waggin' God
Message:
dear la-ex (i love your name),

you wrote: 'Shouldn't he know a little about the driver of the vehicle, before he hitches up his wagon behind him?'

just wondering etc... wouldn't the master be 'the wagon' and god 'the driver' etc.?

not trying to be difficult...just curious....

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Date: Fri, May 05, 2000 at 03:28:59 (GMT)
From: blood
Email: None
To: raina
Subject: Hitch-hiking down the spiritual highway
Message:
following the thread by la-ex

'Shouldn't he know a little about
the driver of the vehicle, before
he hitches up his wagon behind him?'



I was hitch-hiking down the spirtual
highway when along came this kid
driving a big shiny car. He stopped
and said 'get in; I'll take you where
you want to go.' He kept going in
directions that were everywhere,
except, where I knew I wanted to go.
He kept saying 'this big car needed
lots of gas' and he continually ask
if I would I mind forking over some
cash. He kept insinuating, also,
that if I wasn't really enjoying the
ride it was because I wan't trying
hard enough.

Finally, I couldn't see any point
in paying for his joy ride and I
knew in the bottom of my heart that
this kid didn't have one iota of a
clue about how to get anywhere that
I wanted to go, so I jumped out
and have never taken any rides from
strangers since.

That is the sum total of the knowledge
that I received.

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Date: Fri, May 05, 2000 at 15:03:15 (GMT)
From: Way
Email: None
To: To:la-ex
Subject: To:la-ex
Message:
la-ex,

Thanks for your comments about my '9 objections' letter. Are you refering to the version posted on this Forum in mid-April? Or the final version that is making the rounds via email to interested parties? If you haven't seen the final version and would like to, email me at wwilliam@kumc.edu. Also, if you have any names, telephone numbers, and/or addresses for people you would like the letter to go out to, let me know. The letter will be mailed anonymously, by regular post with a postmark from the Midwest. Thanks.

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Date: Fri, May 05, 2000 at 19:18:14 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: jmkahn@club-internet.fr
To: Way
Subject: Way, read this please!
Message:
Would you please email me?
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