SB -:- Is it just me??? Carol is with us???? -:- Mon, May 08, 2000 at 19:40:51 (GMT)

__ gerry -:- hahahahahahahahahah (nt) -:- Tues, May 09, 2000 at 00:17:04 (GMT)

__ __ Selene -:- Carol is doing OK -:- Tues, May 09, 2000 at 18:18:13 (GMT)

__ __ __ SB -:- Forgiving? Of What? -:- Tues, May 09, 2000 at 18:49:38 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Selene -:- Forgiving? Of What? -:- Tues, May 09, 2000 at 19:34:13 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ SB -:- Hi Selene -:- Wed, May 10, 2000 at 00:13:02 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- thanks SB -:- Wed, May 10, 2000 at 03:23:29 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Helen -:- thanks SB -:- Wed, May 10, 2000 at 20:25:00 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- Party Of One? -:- Wed, May 10, 2000 at 20:57:37 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ SB -:- Premies -:- Wed, May 10, 2000 at 13:40:21 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- talking to Premies -:- Wed, May 10, 2000 at 15:54:14 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Helen -:- Forgiving? Of What? -:- Tues, May 09, 2000 at 20:37:58 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Ah, the pleasure of an open mind! -:- Wed, May 10, 2000 at 01:12:26 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- how would you know? -:- Wed, May 10, 2000 at 04:10:23 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Helen -:- Jim, I have the perfect woman for you!! -:- Wed, May 10, 2000 at 02:38:02 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Sorry I don't respect your muddle enough, Helen -:- Wed, May 10, 2000 at 15:06:33 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Helen -:- Sorry I don't respect your muddle enough, Helen -:- Wed, May 10, 2000 at 20:21:47 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- Carol's back in fold? Is this true, or... -:- Wed, May 10, 2000 at 16:09:34 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- stike out -:- Wed, May 10, 2000 at 05:10:19 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- You're a liar, Selene -:- Wed, May 10, 2000 at 15:14:35 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- Ha, just read this, what a dickhead !! -:- Fri, May 12, 2000 at 14:07:28 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- HA! yOU REally tHinK i'D bother exPorTing... -:- Wed, May 10, 2000 at 15:27:17 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Harry -:- stike out -:- Wed, May 10, 2000 at 09:02:51 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Elaine -:- Jim's_____ -:- Wed, May 10, 2000 at 15:27:04 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- Jim's_____ -:- Wed, May 10, 2000 at 17:56:10 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Elaine -:- Jim's_____ -:- Wed, May 10, 2000 at 21:36:01 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- OH that's right! got it :) nt -:- Wed, May 10, 2000 at 21:38:34 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- I couldn't really SEE it Harry -:- Wed, May 10, 2000 at 15:22:18 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- thanks Helen -:- Tues, May 09, 2000 at 20:55:13 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Helen -:- thanks Helen -:- Wed, May 10, 2000 at 02:39:46 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- Moving out of the passive phase a bit -:- Thurs, May 11, 2000 at 01:27:28 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- she NEVER fucked with me again!! -:- Thurs, May 11, 2000 at 01:33:48 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Elaine -:- she NEVER fucked with me again!! -:- Thurs, May 11, 2000 at 15:15:42 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- you don't want to now from ME Elaine! -:- Thurs, May 11, 2000 at 15:56:05 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- OOOPPSSS I really reaally meant KNOW not NOW!!!! -:- Thurs, May 11, 2000 at 16:04:01 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Elaine -:- Cut (nt) -:- Fri, May 12, 2000 at 00:09:55 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Elaine -:- CUTE, I meant Cute...(nt) -:- Fri, May 12, 2000 at 00:11:23 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ helen -:- Bullies and Freudian typos -:- Thurs, May 11, 2000 at 20:53:47 (GMT)

__ Elaine -:- Is it just me??? Carol is with us???? -:- Mon, May 08, 2000 at 19:43:11 (GMT)

Larkin -:- One more for the songbook... -:- Mon, May 08, 2000 at 19:21:20 (GMT)

__ Angry Poet -:- One more for the songbook... -:- Thurs, May 11, 2000 at 00:09:13 (GMT)

__ Susan -:- Bravo Bravo (nt) -:- Tues, May 09, 2000 at 15:21:39 (GMT)

__ Floyd -:- The wall -:- Tues, May 09, 2000 at 07:14:46 (GMT)

__ dv -:- Bravo! nt -:- Mon, May 08, 2000 at 20:37:49 (GMT)

__ cq -:- Dub dooby doo - be dumb as Mahraj ... (nt) -:- Mon, May 08, 2000 at 19:25:26 (GMT)

__ __ Know it all -:- Dub dooby doo - be dumb as Mahraj ... (nt) -:- Mon, May 08, 2000 at 20:59:45 (GMT)

Gregg -:- My One Premie Friend Has Befriended My Wife! -:- Mon, May 08, 2000 at 17:06:03 (GMT)

__ jondon -:- sun myung moon -:- Mon, May 08, 2000 at 20:00:51 (GMT)

__ __ Jethro -:- Re: Sadam -:- Mon, May 08, 2000 at 20:34:16 (GMT)

__ raina -:- Why do people get married? -:- Mon, May 08, 2000 at 17:09:31 (GMT)

__ __ Helen -:- raina/Jerry -:- Mon, May 08, 2000 at 21:14:10 (GMT)

__ __ __ raina -:- raina/Jerry -:- Tues, May 09, 2000 at 02:09:00 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Helen -:- raina/Jerry -:- Tues, May 09, 2000 at 02:34:49 (GMT)

__ __ Gasper -:- Why do people get married? -:- Mon, May 08, 2000 at 19:45:01 (GMT)

__ __ __ raina -:- hmmm oh yah.......... -:- Tues, May 09, 2000 at 02:43:26 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Oliver -:- Marriage is like a Cage...... -:- Wed, May 10, 2000 at 09:16:08 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ raina -:- who in their right mind would seek out a cage? -:- Wed, May 10, 2000 at 22:35:31 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Oliver -:- Look around you raina. nt -:- Thurs, May 11, 2000 at 00:23:36 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ raina -:- Like I said-I'm talking about one in a million -:- Thurs, May 11, 2000 at 00:48:42 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Oliver -:- raina wants a fight but........ -:- Thurs, May 11, 2000 at 03:31:18 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ raina -:- More proof of arrogant Brain Dead PROJECTION -:- Thurs, May 11, 2000 at 03:53:37 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Scott T. -:- Did you hear the one about...? -:- Tues, May 09, 2000 at 14:46:56 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ raina -:- oh if ONLY that were true! -:- Tues, May 09, 2000 at 16:34:08 (GMT)

__ __ Jerry -:- Why do people get married? -:- Mon, May 08, 2000 at 19:43:36 (GMT)

__ __ __ VP -:- Why do people get married? -:- Mon, May 08, 2000 at 21:48:42 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Jerry -:- Why do people get married? -:- Tues, May 09, 2000 at 10:29:00 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ raina -:- and of course the perpetuation of Gerry Genes -:- Tues, May 09, 2000 at 02:27:59 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ gErRy -:- Uh, I castrated myself in the ashram-inner agya nt -:- Tues, May 09, 2000 at 02:47:37 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ robin -:- HOLY HELIUM BATMAN! -:- Tues, May 09, 2000 at 03:11:01 (GMT)

__ __ __ Gasper -:- Why do people get married? -:- Mon, May 08, 2000 at 19:57:48 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Up Here -:- Why do people get married? -:- Mon, May 08, 2000 at 21:34:47 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Elaine B. -:- Thank you, Carl (nt) -:- Mon, May 08, 2000 at 23:22:31 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Carl Sagan -:- Thank you, Carl -:- Tues, May 09, 2000 at 14:14:00 (GMT)

__ __ Yes... -:- ...the urge to merge (nt) -:- Mon, May 08, 2000 at 17:26:32 (GMT)

Jim -:- 2 more Happy Clappers report on Miami, (last year? -:- Mon, May 08, 2000 at 16:16:57 (GMT)

__ AJW -:- Waking up in the morning. -:- Tues, May 09, 2000 at 08:02:43 (GMT)

__ jondon -:- Happy Clappers -:- Mon, May 08, 2000 at 19:50:21 (GMT)

__ __ cq -:- So if you don't see him for a year or so, do you g -:- Mon, May 08, 2000 at 19:56:07 (GMT)

__ __ __ raina -:- who chooses the chosen few? -:- Tues, May 09, 2000 at 03:15:54 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ raina -:- the 'F.A.''s do! -:- Tues, May 09, 2000 at 16:36:23 (GMT)

__ __ __ jondon -:- sappy sappy cloy cloy -:- Mon, May 08, 2000 at 20:03:32 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ cq -:- sappy sappy cloy cloy -:- Mon, May 08, 2000 at 20:42:14 (GMT)

__ P.T. Head -:- Dominica nica nica nica...... -:- Mon, May 08, 2000 at 17:11:22 (GMT)

__ __ Granpa Hanky -:- One nica too many. Now for the hard facts: -:- Mon, May 08, 2000 at 18:06:13 (GMT)

__ __ __ raina -:- no shit.... -:- Tues, May 09, 2000 at 02:56:16 (GMT)

__ __ __ Granmaw Hanky -:- Oh, gramps, - tetchy ol' dumplin'. Sing along now -:- Mon, May 08, 2000 at 18:21:20 (GMT)

__ Way -:- If this is June, then I'm way behind -:- Mon, May 08, 2000 at 17:09:30 (GMT)

__ __ Robyn -:- If this is June, then I'm way behind -:- Mon, May 08, 2000 at 17:54:10 (GMT)

Jim -:- Dettmers replies further to intervention story -:- Mon, May 08, 2000 at 15:21:36 (GMT)

__ JW -:- Thanks Michael and Jim for the clarification...nt -:- Mon, May 08, 2000 at 21:11:31 (GMT)

__ Powerman -:- Dettmers replies further to intervention story -:- Mon, May 08, 2000 at 18:42:11 (GMT)

__ __ powerlover -:- POWERMAN ROCKS! -:- Tues, May 09, 2000 at 03:07:25 (GMT)

__ __ __ Superman -:- POWERMAN ROCKS! -:- Tues, May 09, 2000 at 07:38:08 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ soleman -:- That's what 'the inside' is for! -:- Tues, May 09, 2000 at 12:07:17 (GMT)

__ __ G -:- He still doesn't say that there NEVER was... -:- Mon, May 08, 2000 at 21:35:57 (GMT)

__ __ __ JW -:- True. You are right G, but... -:- Mon, May 08, 2000 at 22:04:43 (GMT)

Mel Bourne -:- Why can't I become an ex-premie????? -:- Mon, May 08, 2000 at 14:20:13 (GMT)

__ Look Mel: -:- Nice truth.... -:- Tues, May 09, 2000 at 15:41:18 (GMT)

__ Benjamin Franklin -:- 'The family of fools is ancient' nt -:- Tues, May 09, 2000 at 13:00:19 (GMT)

__ Quote -:- 'An empty Bag cannot stand straight' nt -:- Tues, May 09, 2000 at 11:31:25 (GMT)

__ Susu -:- Mel: Read this 'Here come Courage!.... -:- Tues, May 09, 2000 at 11:20:26 (GMT)

__ Mel: Never put your hand -:- in a jar with a trinket in it NT -:- Tues, May 09, 2000 at 11:04:16 (GMT)

__ To Mel -:- Eat to live, not live to eat (nt) -:- Tues, May 09, 2000 at 11:02:34 (GMT)

__ To Mel -:- Never put all eggs in one basket.... -:- Tues, May 09, 2000 at 10:59:55 (GMT)

__ Nigel -:- Quitting is a one-way process... -:- Tues, May 09, 2000 at 09:16:46 (GMT)

__ Mili -:- Why can't I become an ex-premie????? -:- Tues, May 09, 2000 at 08:03:57 (GMT)

__ VP -:- Why can't I become an ex-premie????? -:- Tues, May 09, 2000 at 00:46:51 (GMT)

__ Daneane -:- I'm neither...and I wish neither existed.(nt) -:- Mon, May 08, 2000 at 23:43:29 (GMT)

__ JW -:- Don't be such a masochist... -:- Mon, May 08, 2000 at 22:10:39 (GMT)

__ Jerry -:- Stop worshipping M, that's how -:- Mon, May 08, 2000 at 19:23:46 (GMT)

__ __ Cowboy Hank Hanky -:- Remember, never kick a fresh turd on a hot day(nt) -:- Mon, May 08, 2000 at 19:35:12 (GMT)

__ __ __ Antie Pearl -:- Remember, never piss up-stream (nt) -:- Tues, May 09, 2000 at 05:55:46 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ The One Armed Man -:- Never put your arm in a lion's mounth...... -:- Tues, May 09, 2000 at 05:58:06 (GMT)

__ __ __ VP -:- Remember, never kick a fresh turd on a hot day(nt) -:- Tues, May 09, 2000 at 00:53:08 (GMT)

__ __ __ Jerry -:- Uh, huh -:- Mon, May 08, 2000 at 19:49:54 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ cq -:- Never ask a barber if he thinks you need a haircut -:- Mon, May 08, 2000 at 19:59:11 (GMT)

__ Nigel -:- Then go practice - Stop your OWN whining. (NT) -:- Mon, May 08, 2000 at 19:11:03 (GMT)

__ __ Helen -:- Then go practice - Stop your OWN whining. -:- Mon, May 08, 2000 at 21:35:48 (GMT)

__ cq -:- Analogy: if I buy a good car from a crook ... -:- Mon, May 08, 2000 at 18:13:28 (GMT)

__ Robyn -:- Why can't I become an ex-premie????? -:- Mon, May 08, 2000 at 17:16:04 (GMT)

__ raina -:- commonality thing -:- Mon, May 08, 2000 at 17:07:12 (GMT)

__ raina -:- Sky may not be blue to the colorblind -:- Mon, May 08, 2000 at 16:52:04 (GMT)

__ __ Runamok -:- Sky may not be blue to the colorblind -:- Mon, May 08, 2000 at 18:15:44 (GMT)

__ __ hamzen -:- But for some people it's rose tinted -:- Mon, May 08, 2000 at 18:01:52 (GMT)

__ __ __ raina -:- The power of a 12 year old -:- Tues, May 09, 2000 at 02:01:08 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Is call brainwashing... -:- ..these days of studies -:- Tues, May 09, 2000 at 14:01:05 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ raina -:- it's called EXCORCISM moron -:- Tues, May 09, 2000 at 16:40:51 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ uh-Oh -:- I think I'm falling in love... -:- Tues, May 09, 2000 at 02:54:13 (GMT)

__ Susan -:- why not stay a premie then? -:- Mon, May 08, 2000 at 16:03:26 (GMT)

__ HERE MEL -:- It may as well be for YOU TOO! -:- Mon, May 08, 2000 at 15:40:56 (GMT)

__ __ Hey Mel! -:- DID you read it? nt -:- Tues, May 09, 2000 at 10:55:42 (GMT)

__ Stuart M -:- Why can't I become an ex-premie????? -:- Mon, May 08, 2000 at 15:26:50 (GMT)

__ __ WiseOne -:- Look Stuart! -:- Tues, May 09, 2000 at 15:40:08 (GMT)

__ __ Helen -:- Why can't I become an ex-premie????? -:- Mon, May 08, 2000 at 21:40:52 (GMT)

__ __ Jim -:- Here's my challenge to you, Stuart -:- Mon, May 08, 2000 at 15:48:16 (GMT)

__ __ SB -:- Why can't YOU become an ex-premie????? -:- Mon, May 08, 2000 at 15:38:55 (GMT)

__ __ __ The bad fairy -:- Why can't YOU become an ex-premie????? -:- Tues, May 09, 2000 at 01:21:00 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ SB: OK...here -:- Venom? -:- Tues, May 09, 2000 at 14:12:28 (GMT)

__ Jim -:- Read The Guru Papers (nt) -:- Mon, May 08, 2000 at 15:23:45 (GMT)

__ Way -:- Premie or ex-premie??? -:- Mon, May 08, 2000 at 15:05:35 (GMT)

__ __ Gregg -:- That last paragraph says it all, Way! (nt) -:- Mon, May 08, 2000 at 16:48:30 (GMT)

__ __ __ VP -:- That last paragraph says it all, Way! (nt) -:- Tues, May 09, 2000 at 01:01:19 (GMT)

__ Gregg -:- Why can't I become an ex-premie????? -:- Mon, May 08, 2000 at 14:39:43 (GMT)

__ __ Way -:- To Gregg -:- Mon, May 08, 2000 at 17:20:19 (GMT)

__ __ __ Elaine B. -:- To Gregg and Way -:- Mon, May 08, 2000 at 17:29:50 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ SB -:- Sorry some us 'disappoint you' nt -:- Tues, May 09, 2000 at 12:56:41 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Elaine B -:- I am too. -:- Tues, May 09, 2000 at 16:19:46 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ SB -:- You didn't hear it the first time? -:- Tues, May 09, 2000 at 18:16:29 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Elaine -:- You didn't hear it the first time?Perfect example. -:- Tues, May 09, 2000 at 19:35:06 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ SB -:- Excuse me Madam.... -:- Wed, May 10, 2000 at 00:38:07 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Here's where the problem is, ladies -:- Wed, May 10, 2000 at 01:25:17 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Elaine -:- Here's where the problem is, ladies -:- Wed, May 10, 2000 at 02:45:43 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ SB -:- Here's where the problem is, ladies -:- Wed, May 10, 2000 at 02:57:30 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Elaine -:- Here's where the problem is... -:- Wed, May 10, 2000 at 14:04:00 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- You have no complaint against SB -:- Wed, May 10, 2000 at 15:20:07 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Stonor -:- You have no complaint against Elaine!!! -:- Thurs, May 11, 2000 at 03:24:29 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ SB -:- Did you sleep last night? -:- Thurs, May 11, 2000 at 09:26:39 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Shut up (nt) -:- Thurs, May 11, 2000 at 05:37:56 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Stonor -:- Your words speak for themselves, Jim. (NT) -:- Thurs, May 11, 2000 at 21:24:55 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ SB -:- TXs for trying to cover up.... -:- Thurs, May 11, 2000 at 00:12:27 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Elaine -:- You have no complaint against SB -:- Wed, May 10, 2000 at 15:56:05 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ SB -:- Elaine, look! -:- Wed, May 10, 2000 at 23:49:14 (GMT)

Dave -:- A question you may like to answer -:- Mon, May 08, 2000 at 13:21:56 (GMT)

__ Yes, it happened to me -:- When Mariachi snatched my soul...NT -:- Tues, May 09, 2000 at 13:30:08 (GMT)

__ Jim -:- A question you may like to amend -:- Mon, May 08, 2000 at 15:57:48 (GMT)

__ __ Dave -:- A question you may like to amend -:- Mon, May 08, 2000 at 17:20:41 (GMT)

__ __ __ Celia Spacecase -:- When was my last 'in-the-body' experience??? (nt) -:- Mon, May 08, 2000 at 19:04:30 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ come 2 Popa CiCi -:- When was my last 'in-the-body' experience??? (nt) -:- Tues, May 09, 2000 at 02:20:35 (GMT)

Date: Mon, May 08, 2000 at 19:40:51 (GMT) From: SB Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Is it just me??? Carol is with us???? Message:

and her 'new' name is Elaine???

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Date: Tues, May 09, 2000 at 00:17:04 (GMT) From: gerry Email: None To: SB Subject: hahahahahahahahahah (nt) Message:

ahhhhahahahahaahh

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Date: Tues, May 09, 2000 at 18:18:13 (GMT) From: Selene Email: None To: gerry Subject: Carol is doing OK Message:

Just heard from her recently. This place isn't very forgiving is it?

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Date: Tues, May 09, 2000 at 18:49:38 (GMT) From: SB Email: None To: Selene Subject: Forgiving? Of What? Message:

What do you mean? Carol claimed she was an independant thinker but thought that Lard is ok, that all is matter of taste. I didn't know that I had to 'forgive' untruthful logic...Do Exes attack ideas or premies? I don't like their 'logic'. That is it. :)

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Date: Tues, May 09, 2000 at 19:34:13 (GMT) From: Selene Email: None To: SB Subject: Forgiving? Of What? Message:

SB I suffer from this odd quirk - seeing all points of view and I suppose feeling strongly about one or the other at different times depending on what has happened in my life. Some would call this a weakness I know. When Carol was kicked off RE I caught a lot of shit for it. She never got angry at me. I don't know. I'm struggling with many changes right now and am not seeing things in such absolutes as I used to. And tomorrow some nut like 'george' may post to me and I'll go off and flame him to death and make what I just said seem like a joke. What does that say about me? I'm struggling with a new phase of my life. I'm a not so recent ex anymore. It has now been since January of 1998. If that wavering of 'aboluteness' is not popular here that is too bad. It's how I feel and I think it is valid. I'm not angry at you. I hope you are not at me.

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Date: Wed, May 10, 2000 at 00:13:02 (GMT) From: SB Email: None To: Selene Subject: Hi Selene Message:

Of course I'm not mad: I liked Carol too! I didn't like how long her 'satsangs' were... I felt like responding to your word 'forgiving' in your post, because I got a little confused with it... :)))) SB

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Date: Wed, May 10, 2000 at 03:23:29 (GMT) From: Selene Email: None To: SB Subject: thanks SB Message:

I'm glad you haven't fallen prey to the all or nothing disease. Some people found it quite convenient to flame me when I supported the decision to ban Carol from RE because of her satsangs. They didn't give a shit about Carol - they were mad at the FA and trying to make noise. I found it interesting that SHE never got angry at me and still talks to me. And this same person finds it convenient to jump in this thread and indirectly attack me still for trying to make peace and grow independently. It's a relief to see that YOU in spite of all your rage (well deserved rage that I fully appreciate!!) can see ME as a person who is still an ex and still knows that M is a piece of shit even though I am seeing indivduals like Carol as people. I really appreaciate your post on a lot of levels. Carol was very confused at the time. I doubt she wants to come back here.

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Date: Wed, May 10, 2000 at 20:25:00 (GMT) From: Helen Email: None To: Selene Subject: thanks SB Message:

Yes, precisely. 'Making peace and growing independently' means you won't always go with the 'party line.'

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Date: Wed, May 10, 2000 at 20:57:37 (GMT) From: Selene Email: None To: Helen Subject: Party Of One? Message:

Not even TV show title material. Most of the people here accept other ex's. I am very touched by SB because I KNOW how angry she is right now at premies and how hurt she has been. And I know my original comment in this thread could have alienated her. But she worked it out with me.

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Date: Wed, May 10, 2000 at 13:40:21 (GMT) From: SB Email: None To: Selene Subject: Premies Message:

Selene, You may have more than one reason why you want to communicate with her and that is just fine with me...I have coffe with premies sometimes when they stop by at my home, premies around here who I know for years... I do not have anything against them personally: How could I!!!I'm still fighting some stupid ideas I 'inherited' from Lard!! I understand why premies want to hold on to him and I bet you, is for the same reasons I had... However, I do not like when premies come here and begin to throw shit on us, Exes, and talk falsely trying to force on us 'their thought reason' why we left or why we participate in this forum: that is why I LIKE responding to what I hear coming from them, basically, because some smart pants ones want to speak FOR ME!! You 'sound' like you are doing great! Glad! Love, S

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Date: Wed, May 10, 2000 at 15:54:14 (GMT) From: Selene Email: None To: SB Subject: talking to Premies Message:

Hi again SB I no longer have any communication with premies, in real life. And I don't want to. I get pissed off at their M thing. It gets in the way. I get irritated at 'new age' in general. Very quickly. The only interaction I have at all with premies is here and that is fairly limited since you see how they communicate, if you can call it that! I'm not sure if Carol thinks of herself as a premie really. We don't talk about that at all. When I started posting here I broke all ties. And they stopped calling me right away. It's almost like someone was reading this site. In fact I Know someone was because I had told her about it just prior to posting here. (of course there is an ex who can't seem to communicate with me as well, not you!) That's impressive you can sit down and have coffee with premies, given how angry you are. I imagine your 'community' is larger than this one. There were only a handful when I left.

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Date: Tues, May 09, 2000 at 20:37:58 (GMT) From: Helen Email: None To: Selene Subject: Forgiving? Of What? Message:

Dear Selene, I liked that post A LOT. I can realte to it even though I haven't been a 'premie' for 15 years. One day I am nipping at the heels of premies here on the forum, and other days i think 'What the hell, if their Guru comforts them, so what? Life's tough enough. What the hell do I know about it?' The older we get the more grey area there is. Although, in truth, Carol's preachiness got on my nerves. But do I wish ill of her --GOD NO!!!! BTW, I think you and SB would have alot of fun together. Helen

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Date: Wed, May 10, 2000 at 01:12:26 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: Helen Subject: Ah, the pleasure of an open mind! Message:

Yeah, you guys are right. Maybe Maharaji isn't really a venal leader of a sixties cargo cult. Hell, what do I know? Got to keep an open mind, right? I mean, anything's possible. Maybe, just maybe, Carol's right. Who knows?

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Date: Wed, May 10, 2000 at 04:10:23 (GMT) From: Selene Email: None To: Jim Subject: how would you know? Message:

Oh nevermind I forget I'm not here and it's not about me.

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Date: Wed, May 10, 2000 at 02:38:02 (GMT) From: Helen Email: None To: Jim Subject: Jim, I have the perfect woman for you!! Message:

Well you and Dr. Laura should really get together some time, Jim! She the ultra-orthodox absolutist, you the constant star of the forum who never grows battle weary. Dr. Laura's vehement message remains constant, as does yours. SOmetimes I think she is insane. At other times I think she is brilliant. Gee, just like you! I'm telling you it would be a match made in heaven. Two pig-headed, aggressive absolutists going at it all night long. Hey I saw those naked pictures of her on the internet and she's a looker, too.

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Date: Wed, May 10, 2000 at 15:06:33 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: Helen Subject: Sorry I don't respect your muddle enough, Helen Message:

Yes, Helen, you are so wonderfully liberal about all things, right? Hell, you're in no position to call Carol silly for returning to Maharaji. Why that would take actually deciding something, wouldn't it? And how in the world could you do that? You're a liberal thinker, for god's sake! Hell, for all you know ...... Forget it, Helen.

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Date: Wed, May 10, 2000 at 20:21:47 (GMT) From: Helen Email: None To: Jim Subject: Sorry I don't respect your muddle enough, Helen Message:

Huh? You are so funny. You don't know me very well, dear.

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Date: Wed, May 10, 2000 at 16:09:34 (GMT) From: gerry Email: None To: Jim Subject: Carol's back in fold? Is this true, or... Message:

or are you 'kidding?'

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Date: Wed, May 10, 2000 at 05:10:19 (GMT) From: Selene Email: None To: Helen Subject: stike out Message:

I saw naked pictures of Jim passed around in email nix on the looker part.

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Date: Wed, May 10, 2000 at 15:14:35 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: Selene Subject: You're a liar, Selene Message:

Fuck off with this bullshit. Tell us about your meds again, why don't you? I never get tired of hearing about that. But don't be lying about me.

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Date: Fri, May 12, 2000 at 14:07:28 (GMT) From: gerry Email: None To: Jim Subject: Ha, just read this, what a dickhead !! Message:

chill bro,chill. Hey maybe you wanna borrow the Heartmath book. It's in like new condition...

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Date: Wed, May 10, 2000 at 15:27:17 (GMT) From: Selene Email: None To: Jim Subject: HA! yOU REally tHinK i'D bother exPorTing... Message:

from Pine, etc.... just for THAT???????? Look what gets answered directly. How funny and typical.

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Date: Wed, May 10, 2000 at 09:02:51 (GMT) From: Harry Email: None To: Selene Subject: stike out Message:

Do you often think of Jim's naked body Selene? Is it true what absolutists say about their dicks, that they're absolutely huge?

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Date: Wed, May 10, 2000 at 15:27:04 (GMT) From: Elaine Email: None To: Harry Subject: Jim's_____ Message:

Oh, I'm positive Jim's dick is quite large. Maybe not huge. But quite nice. Sorry for butting in.

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Date: Wed, May 10, 2000 at 17:56:10 (GMT) From: Selene Email: None To: Elaine Subject: Jim's_____ Message:

Hi Elaine. What on earth makes you think that? see I always have the theory that men who push their weight around as much as this dude are compensating. It has been proven right the very few times I could stomach going so far as to experiment enough to find out. (not that I have with this character!!)

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Date: Wed, May 10, 2000 at 21:36:01 (GMT) From: Elaine Email: None To: Selene Subject: Jim's_____ Message:

Shhh - don't let him know we know that. ;)

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Date: Wed, May 10, 2000 at 21:38:34 (GMT) From: Selene Email: None To: Elaine Subject: OH that's right! got it :) nt Message:

nt

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Date: Wed, May 10, 2000 at 15:22:18 (GMT) From: Selene Email: None To: Harry Subject: I couldn't really SEE it Harry Message:

His mouth sure was though!

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Date: Tues, May 09, 2000 at 20:55:13 (GMT) From: Selene Email: None To: Helen Subject: thanks Helen Message:

I don't think this is a personal issue. Thanks for understanding Helen. Sometimes I feel like I am expected to make one stand and only one. It just isn't like that for me. Not anymore. I've channeled the 'angry girl' into my writing and into exercise (and of course my boss for kicking me out of my office - even if it wasn't his decision- ha! like I told him yesterday, I'm passive aggressive but I try not to be :) :)

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Date: Wed, May 10, 2000 at 02:39:46 (GMT) From: Helen Email: None To: Selene Subject: thanks Helen Message:

Sounds like the name of a song: 'I'm passive aggressive but try not to be' Sorry to hear about your cubicle. That's a tough one.

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Date: Thurs, May 11, 2000 at 01:27:28 (GMT) From: Selene Email: None To: Helen Subject: Moving out of the passive phase a bit Message:

Yikes! One time as a kid there was a major bitch living next door to me. She was a few years older and really tough. She hated me because I was really skinny and pretty and way smarter than her. She terrorized me. For months and months. Every time I tried to play with the other kids and she came around I had to run home. she locked me up in a dark tool shed once and I banged on the doors forever until someone found me. I was fucking scared to death of her. One day she was chasing me home and I accedently let the front door to our slum slam shut on her eye. She screamed bloody murder and I quickly realized, she thought I had done it to her on purpose!! I played it for all it was worth, said something like 'don't you ever fuck with me again' (a BIG deal to say that, I was like 7 or something) I should never ever have forgotten that story when I came here.

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Date: Thurs, May 11, 2000 at 01:33:48 (GMT) From: Selene Email: None To: oh yeah ps Subject: she NEVER fucked with me again!! Message:

We became friends and she told me all about sex with men. great.

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Date: Thurs, May 11, 2000 at 15:15:42 (GMT) From: Elaine Email: None To: Selene Subject: she NEVER fucked with me again!! Message:

And now will you tell me?

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Date: Thurs, May 11, 2000 at 15:56:05 (GMT) From: Selene Email: None To: Elaine Subject: you don't want to now from ME Elaine! Message:

Trust me on this. Just trust me on this I have tried very hard to figure it out and am not at all good at it. At handling it. well. you know. OK. I'll leave it at that!

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Date: Thurs, May 11, 2000 at 16:04:01 (GMT) From: Selene Email: None To: Elaine i'm embarrassed! Subject: OOOPPSSS I really reaally meant KNOW not NOW!!!! Message:

Why is it my typos are so often so weird like that? shit I'm embarrassed. uh you DO understand I hope hahaha too funny!! :)

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Date: Fri, May 12, 2000 at 00:09:55 (GMT) From: Elaine Email: None To: Selene Subject: Cut (nt) Message:

nt

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Date: Fri, May 12, 2000 at 00:11:23 (GMT) From: Elaine Email: None To: Selene Subject: CUTE, I meant Cute...(nt) Message:

nt

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Date: Thurs, May 11, 2000 at 20:53:47 (GMT) From: helen Email: None To: Selene Subject: Bullies and Freudian typos Message:

HA HA HA Freudian typos?? yes, I have seen them and they are hilarious. That was funny how you recovered quickly and told that girl not to fuck with you again. Yes, you have to play those bluff games with bullies. They need corrective limits set on them in order to back down. They don't naturally observe boundaries or respect people. Bullies are scary! But all of us have to deal with them at one time or another!

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Date: Mon, May 08, 2000 at 19:43:11 (GMT) From: Elaine Email: None To: SB Subject: Is it just me??? Carol is with us???? Message:

Oh, I'm so sorry I simply forgot to address your ques - no I'm not Carol. But, if you have dates I'd like to go to the archives to see this lady. I'm sorry I just forgot. Elaine

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Date: Mon, May 08, 2000 at 19:21:20 (GMT) From: Larkin Email: larkin@redcrow.demon.co.uk To: Everyone Subject: One more for the songbook... Message:

dumb dooby you dumb, dumb omaraji… dumb dooby you dumb, dumb omaraji… dumb dooby you dumb, dumb omaraji… dumb dooby you dumb, dumb… - Don’t take my Lard away from me-ee… For it would leave me in such miseree-ee Even though he’s made a fool of me Waking up is hard to do Don’t take my crutch away from me-ee… Although he ain’t what he’s cracked up to be Although the damage is so sad to see Waking up is hard to do. They say that waking up is hard to do When you’ve been suckered by a satguru Claiming he alone provides what’s true Waking up is hard to do. They say that waking up is hard to do Stole my youth, my pride, my reason too Seen right through him, now I’m feeling blue ‘Coz waking up is hard to do. dumb dooby you dumb, dumb omaraji… dumb dooby you dumb, dumb omaraji… dumb dooby you dumb, dumb omaraji… dumb dooby you dumb, dumb… - Don’t take my Lard away from me-ee… Although he kept me from my family And those departed I’ll no longer see Said waking up is hard to do Don’t take that Grace away from mee-ee Just let me play the humble devotee And keep believing here’s my destiny Waking up is hard to do They say that waking up is hard to doo-oo All that satsang and that service too Flushed away straight down his golden loo Waking up is hard to do. They say that waking up will cause you pain At least you’ll never walk that path again And there’s chance your life you’ll soon regain But waking up is hard to do…

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Date: Thurs, May 11, 2000 at 00:09:13 (GMT) From: Angry Poet Email: None To: Larkin Subject: One more for the songbook... Message:

I kiss your feet without the retreat I could go to Australia just to do that I could go and kiss them and then go bye bye You are my all Oh Lard You have me so fryed I created you in my mind, but hey! is all I have When I wake up each morning Your face is all I see I even have a picture of you ironing Oh Lard, you look so neat Your red robe is a killer-not- I wanted to look just like you I went and I bought one My wife confused me with lucifer She got a lawyer, and left me is one more reason to believe You are all I have, Oh Lard From here to the end My family can't stand me, but hey! I am so much better than them I am an enlightened being who came from above to meet'em I jump up and down now I met the Lard form up high All I have to do is worship him And maintain his life style He will never leave me Cause he wants, I know, my green bucks! Worshiping you I see light shining coming from behind, from lights But I don't care, really You are my God

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Date: Tues, May 09, 2000 at 15:21:39 (GMT) From: Susan Email: None To: Larkin Subject: Bravo Bravo (nt) Message:

nt

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Date: Tues, May 09, 2000 at 07:14:46 (GMT) From: Floyd Email: None To: Larkin Subject: The wall Message:

We don't need no meditation We don't need no thought control No dark sarcasm from the master Hey ! Guru ! Leave us kids alone! All in all you're just another brick in the wall!

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Date: Mon, May 08, 2000 at 20:37:49 (GMT) From: dv Email: None To: Larkin Subject: Bravo! nt Message:

nt

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Date: Mon, May 08, 2000 at 19:25:26 (GMT) From: cq Email: None To: Larkin Subject: Dub dooby doo - be dumb as Mahraj ... (nt) Message:

Dum dooby doo - be dumb as Mahraj ... (nt)

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Date: Mon, May 08, 2000 at 20:59:45 (GMT) From: Know it all Email: None To: cq Subject: Dub dooby doo - be dumb as Mahraj ... (nt) Message:

Larkin, Your the tops your the greatest! Knowitall

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Date: Mon, May 08, 2000 at 17:06:03 (GMT) From: Gregg Email: None To: Everyone Subject: My One Premie Friend Has Befriended My Wife! Message:

And she gave my wife two videos to watch, videos of Guess Who. My wife is going on a road trip with the premie next week, and I told my wife that, thanks to Maharaji's recent agya forbidding the compulsive satsang we used to give, she is proabably pretty safe from overt proselytizing on the trip. The video had to do. My wife does not have a lot of interest in things spiritual, and really hadn't heard much from me about my involvement with the Lord of the Universe in the seventies. She is probably the least likely person I know to find solace in such a birdbrain as Maharaji, her B.S. indicator being what it is. So I put on this 20-minute introductory video one day when we had some time to kill, interested in her reaction...which was to fall asleep. I swear to God, she started drifting off within two minutes of the beginning of the Master's address. I have to admit, not only were the words themselves very unimpressive, but he had all these LONG pauses in between phrases that made it super-soporific. But, not having seen/heard Rawat for a while, here's what impressed me the most: you know who, in his old age, he has come to resemble? The Reverend Sun Myung Moon! It's uncanny! Spooky! And appropriate.

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Date: Mon, May 08, 2000 at 20:00:51 (GMT) From: jondon Email: None To: Gregg Subject: sun myung moon Message:

The last time I saw the little fat man, I thought the same thing. He is the reincarnate of sun myung moon. I also thought he looks alot like Charlie Brown, with that extra large head on that small stocky frame. I also noticed that M has a little Donald Trump rakeover thing going to hide that yarmulke of a bald spot on the back of his dome. And I am happy to see he no longer attempts to grow a moustache. I mean that thing was pathetic. There are people of certain ethnic backgrounds that should refrain from attempting to grow facial hairs. His is one. Iraqis on the other hand, grow the most tremendous moustaches. Ever see a photo of Sadam and his closest buddies? Huge, thick, almost American-Cowboy type moustaches.

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Date: Mon, May 08, 2000 at 20:34:16 (GMT) From: Jethro Email: None To: jondon Subject: Re: Sadam Message:

Sadam always surrounds himself with look-alikes because he has had so many attemts on his life.

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Date: Mon, May 08, 2000 at 17:09:31 (GMT) From: raina Email: None To: Gregg Subject: Why do people get married? Message:

seriously? for the same reason they devote themselves to guru's?

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Date: Mon, May 08, 2000 at 21:14:10 (GMT) From: Helen Email: None To: raina Subject: raina/Jerry Message:

Hi raina If you have to ask yourself why, it's better not to (get married). Are you really wondering why people get married? There are very few people i could imagine myself being married to (my husband being one of them). I agree with Gasper and jerry that it is not a matter of people worshipping each other (ha ha, although my husband sometimes refers to me as his 'queen' as in 'would you like more coffee, my queen?'). Those types of marriage where one grovels and kisses the other's feet, break up after awhile. A good marriage is two human beings helping one another grow, and being true life partners to one another, a pretty good thing. I personally like it a lot, although it is very difficult and quite mundane at times. If you have a mate you really like and have fun with, and respect, it can be great. Jerry so glad to hear you may be possibly in tying the knot with someone. IS she Jewish?? Ha ha that was Little Yiddish Grandma. Seriously I wish you happiness in love. Helen

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Date: Tues, May 09, 2000 at 02:09:00 (GMT) From: raina Email: None To: Helen Subject: raina/Jerry Message:

So maybe with M, just like the good and bad marriages, there are good and VERY bad relationships? That's all I meant.... and for those who never got to meet the person they would have been 'meant/destined' for etc...maybe it was because they were run down by a hysterical psycho-premie who was trying to force himself into meditation while driving!

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Date: Tues, May 09, 2000 at 02:34:49 (GMT) From: Helen Email: None To: raina Subject: raina/Jerry Message:

well, marriage is quite a fantasy and hopefully the two people grow out of 'happily ever after' into 'realistically friends together...' I didn't think I would ever get married, the whole institution seemed especially hard on women, but I don't think that way anymore. What a scary thought that one's date with destiny would be marred by a hit and run! I am reading the most amazing book 'Kindred' by Octavia Butler. A science fiction book about a women who goes back and forth in time from 1976 to slavery days, she doesn't now when she is going to go and she has to fight for her life when she is there on the plantation of her ancestor, and fight to make sure her white ancestor survives to father her grandmother....it's very well written. So your idea of destiny changing really hits me right now!!!

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Date: Mon, May 08, 2000 at 19:45:01 (GMT) From: Gasper Email: None To: raina Subject: Why do people get married? Message:

Hey Raina, Marriage is a totally different ball game. Two equals sharing and caring is not the same as one megalomaniac and one vunerable mortal feeding of each other All you need is love - not devotion. Gasper

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Date: Tues, May 09, 2000 at 02:43:26 (GMT) From: raina Email: None To: Gasper Subject: hmmm oh yah.......... Message:

but as a wo man....aren't I supposed to devote my life to my GREAT husbands? I do mean 'great' of course (how could a wo man devote herself to anyone who doesn't deserve (and need) that devotion.....as I too prepare myself to be ready, and worthy...... And if my great human being would-have-been husband, who i'd have been honored to adore, was the guy run over by that psycho-premie who was meditating behind the wheel? Do I marry someone else just cause i don't like to be alone? Or to cut my bills in half? or because the world really needs these genes continued? or because that's just what everyone 'does'...... Differences between 'wife' 'actress' and 'prostitute'....are usually very slim, if at all no? I mean, as a woman, I feel that urge as deeply as my, my, my breath....man.

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Date: Wed, May 10, 2000 at 09:16:08 (GMT) From: Oliver Email: None To: raina Subject: Marriage is like a Cage...... Message:

.....with those married trying to get out and those not married trying to get in.

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Date: Wed, May 10, 2000 at 22:35:31 (GMT) From: raina Email: None To: Oliver Subject: who in their right mind would seek out a cage? Message:

one in a million is what i'm talking about

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Date: Thurs, May 11, 2000 at 00:23:36 (GMT) From: Oliver Email: None To: raina Subject: Look around you raina. nt Message:

nt

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Date: Thurs, May 11, 2000 at 00:48:42 (GMT) From: raina Email: None To: Oliver Subject: Like I said-I'm talking about one in a million Message:

what? you mean there are desperate crazy people in the world! No!

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Date: Thurs, May 11, 2000 at 03:31:18 (GMT) From: Oliver Email: None To: raina Subject: raina wants a fight but........ Message:

.....we have been there and done that threads and threads ago. What is her motivation? Is it because she is a woman? But then again is she? Bye, bye raina.

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Date: Thurs, May 11, 2000 at 03:53:37 (GMT) From: raina Email: None To: Oliver Subject: More proof of arrogant Brain Dead PROJECTION Message:

why would anyone ever pretend they have a clue as to what other people 'want'? Maybe when they haven't a clue about their own wants-obviously...Ironically the malice out of the brains of zombies such as your self, gets in the way of ANYONE finding out what ANYONE means! You ASSume you're a step ahead! what a joke....a sad one. it's ok Oliver. I wouldn't want to be you either. are you so void of any ability to share anything personal-that you need to set out attacking people..... ew...yuck By the way? What the fuck are you trying to say!! (not that I really want to know. Just thought you might get a kick reading your own moronic bullshit. Did Maharaji steal from you your ability to wipe your own ass too? Oliver Wrote: '.....we have been there and done that threads and threads ago. What is her motivation? Is it because she is a woman? But then again is she? Bye, bye raina.'

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Date: Tues, May 09, 2000 at 14:46:56 (GMT) From: Scott T. Email: None To: raina Subject: Did you hear the one about...? Message:

Raina: I think people get married for the same reason they covert to Judaism. It's the jokes. --Scott

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Date: Tues, May 09, 2000 at 16:34:08 (GMT) From: raina Email: None To: Scott T. Subject: oh if ONLY that were true! Message:

what a wonderful world!

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Date: Mon, May 08, 2000 at 19:43:36 (GMT) From: Jerry Email: None To: raina Subject: Why do people get married? Message:

I don't think so, raina. If I marry the girl I'm presently seeing, it would be for companionship, and to raise a family. And because she gives great.... Naw, what I mean is that she's not going to be my guru, I don't see her as having all the answers. It's just that it seems like time to settle down, yknow? That's all. Hook up with somebody, make a commitment, make little people, that sort of thing.

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Date: Mon, May 08, 2000 at 21:48:42 (GMT) From: VP Email: None To: Jerry Subject: Why do people get married? Message:

Why do people get married? Some people settle...just to settle down and make little people. Companionship is good, but it's gotta be love because you won't believe the bullshit you're going to go through. The person you go through humanity with should be worth it. If she gives great...well, that is pretty important, too. :) Good luck, VP

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Date: Tues, May 09, 2000 at 10:29:00 (GMT) From: Jerry Email: None To: VP Subject: Why do people get married? Message:

Companionship is good, but it's gotta be love because you won't believe the bullshit you're going to go through. Thanks, Veep. You just talked me out of it. Good man :)

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Date: Tues, May 09, 2000 at 02:27:59 (GMT) From: raina Email: None To: VP Subject: and of course the perpetuation of Gerry Genes Message:

good.....?

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Date: Tues, May 09, 2000 at 02:47:37 (GMT) From: gErRy Email: None To: raina Subject: Uh, I castrated myself in the ashram-inner agya nt Message:

asdf

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Date: Tues, May 09, 2000 at 03:11:01 (GMT) From: robin Email: None To: gErRy Subject: HOLY HELIUM BATMAN! Message:

!!!no!!!

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Date: Mon, May 08, 2000 at 19:57:48 (GMT) From: Gasper Email: None To: Jerry Subject: Why do people get married? Message:

And because she gives great.... what is the meaning of dot, dot, dot? I think it is a new religious doings, no? Gasping Gasper p.s. Love is ( sex sometimes it's not)

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Date: Mon, May 08, 2000 at 21:34:47 (GMT) From: Up Here Email: None To: Raina Subject: Why do people get married? Message:

Ignore those idiots, they didn't answer your question on the level that you asked it. Here's your explanation: The Big Bang created billions and billions of stars and planets, right? Do they go on expanding for ever? The Oversoul did a Big Bang, too, into billions and billions of us. We get lonely, don't we? You can only expand so far. From Up Here, things are clear. Hope this helps.

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Date: Mon, May 08, 2000 at 23:22:31 (GMT) From: Elaine B. Email: None To: Up Here Subject: Thank you, Carl (nt) Message:

Sagan

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Date: Tues, May 09, 2000 at 14:14:00 (GMT) From: Carl Sagan Email: None To: Elaine B. Subject: Thank you, Carl Message:

Boy howdy, Elaine, you shoulda seen the expression on my face when I died and went into the tunnel. The bright Light came and said: 'Surprise!' Course it didn't say it out loud, I heard it telepathically. Then the Light said 'Well, what have you got to say for yourself?' In a very gentle way. What could I say? I just went to the room where you go to kick yourself in the butt for as long as it takes. I must have been in there for days, although we don't have days here, of course. Anyway, don't read any of my books. I have to come back soon as a premie. See ya!

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Date: Mon, May 08, 2000 at 17:26:32 (GMT) From: Yes... Email: None To: raina Subject: ...the urge to merge (nt) Message:

nt

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Date: Mon, May 08, 2000 at 16:16:57 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: Everyone Subject: 2 more Happy Clappers report on Miami, (last year? Message:

These just in on ELK: The attitude of gratitude The 6 June Event: a report from Susan Hagaman-McPherson Thank you, Maharaji, for the opportunity to be with you again, in Miami Beach. This love transports me from struggling to letting go. So subtle, so simple, to practice. The returns are gratitude for this gift, and the blessings that abound. A wonderful wake-up call The 6 June Event It's 6.30am, the morning after attending the event with Maharaji, and I've watched in awe the most beautiful golden sunrise from my Miami Beach hotel balcony. I explain to the room service lady that I couldn't hear her knock because I was outside, dreaming and listening to the turquoise ocean roll and roar, feeling humble and so grateful for being alive - for this chance to have spent some time with Maharaji. I've only been away from the UK for a couple of days, but it feels like I've travelled light years, that I've learnt so much. My deepest prayer is that I continue to learn like this for the rest of my life. Why is it when Maharaji speaks that I learn the most obvious, yet profound truth about my life, about the gift of life? It may be obvious truth, but intellectually, I can't get there. I can never thank him enough for the continuing, unfaltering consistency of his message, and the truth that he speaks. It is a wonderful thing, a priceless gift, to be able to trust life again, with renewed love and gratitude in my heart. In the morning presentation, Maharaji talked of the choices extended to us by our 'two friends', our mind and our heart. We can choose to be kind, to be conscious, or to be angry, to be mean, to be unaware. I felt how clearly I need to renew my reflexes, to leap not into my mind, but to the strength my heart holds. He talked of the priority of the heart being quite clear, and thanked God for the heart. 'This is my intelligence, my sanity...' Maharaji used the analogy of a mother with her new-born baby: how she is connected so closely to the needs of her baby, how she responds immediately to her baby's cry - no matter where she is or what she is doing. He suggested our focus should be the same on our experience within. With that, gratitude would follow and a real feeling that no day had been wasted. We would have captured that day - that breath... In the afternoon, Maharaji received a rafter-lifting reception from the audience. He had to encourage everyone to sit down several times. He then went on to talk in a most moving fashion of the gift of life, of breath, of Knowledge. He talked of how this experience had always been communicated by word of mouth, that it wasn't a sell, but a process of awakening... It was magical. Maharaji talked so poignantly and personally about his experience as a child when he would talk at his father's events: how he wanted so much to help his father. I feel that I have learnt so much. I realised that participation is a matter of the heart and that for me the starting point should be my experience of Knowledge, and then everything else will fall into place. Maharaji talked about the 'attitude of gratitude': that when you come from that place, then you are ready to help out. This was so simple, so obvious, but I really needed the reminder. He talked of how a heart could not be crippled, that the heart had no age. I felt that he was saying that as long as I am alive, as long as I have a heart that beats, then I can always wake up to the beauty of this life. Perhaps this is the most significant point of this wonderful event for me, that I have been given the most wonderful wake-up call, I felt so moved by Maharaji's sincerity. The event concluded, and I left the hall feeling totally privileged to have been with Maharaji, to be alive... his words inspiring me... 'All I want to talk to you about, to inspire you to do, is to fulfil your life... It's a blast!...It's not the time to be shy, but time to shine. So shine!'

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Date: Tues, May 09, 2000 at 08:02:43 (GMT) From: AJW Email: None To: Jim Subject: Waking up in the morning. Message:

'As long as your heart is still beating you can wake up in the morning.' This is pretty profound stuff Jim, I'd never thought about it like that before. So, I guess if follows, if your heart is not beating in the morning, it's going to be more difficult to get out of bed. Maybe this has something to do with why dead people don't move around much. Anth, it's all becoming clear at last.

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Date: Mon, May 08, 2000 at 19:50:21 (GMT) From: jondon Email: None To: Jim Subject: Happy Clappers Message:

It's pretty unbelieveable that these two airheads need to be told by M, to be grateful for life. So if you don't see him for a year or so, do you go that whole time without gratitude? or do the videos help? Man, I can't wait til June 7 when he comes up here to Boston and my friends all go see him. They'll get all blissed out and practice meditation daily (for a week or two) then they'll be back to reality-land. Takin' everything for granted. Getting up, going to work, coming home, doing it again the next day...ad infinitum. 'Time to make the donuts'. But then M, or his sidekick Chardonney or Charlatan, whatever it is, will come by and remind everyone to be grateful to M and to life. And they'll practice meditation daily (for a week or two)..... There is talk between tmy friends that two or possibly three of them are being asked to become instructors. Now, clue me in here, but does that mean they can teach K, or do they assist M with it at the big PowWow? I asked my roommate if his instructor buddy could hook me up with the Special K, I told him I would'nt tell anyone. He said that I am not ready, that I need to go back to the videos and begin all over again. Yea, right, so I can become an airhead and not know what day and month it is.

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Date: Mon, May 08, 2000 at 19:56:07 (GMT) From: cq Email: None To: jondon Subject: So if you don't see him for a year or so, do you g Message:

'So if you don't see him for a year or so, do you go that whole time without gratitude? I remember it now. The longer you go without seeing him, the more special you feel when you suddenly remember you're his CHOSEN ones! Happy, happy. Joy, joy. which sooner or later becomes: sappy, sappy, cloy, cloy.

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Date: Tues, May 09, 2000 at 03:15:54 (GMT) From: raina Email: None To: cq Subject: who chooses the chosen few? Message:

the chosen few do. i just felt like saying this-not disputing nothing....

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Date: Tues, May 09, 2000 at 16:36:23 (GMT) From: raina Email: None To: raina Subject: the 'F.A.''s do! Message:

beep

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Date: Mon, May 08, 2000 at 20:03:32 (GMT) From: jondon Email: None To: cq Subject: sappy sappy cloy cloy Message:

So that's how it works. Why bother? Just stay at home and become content with the lifestyle you've chosen, find what makes you happy, and do IT. Why depend on some little fat guy to tell you what IT is? I'll never get it, but I enjoy the comic relief it provides.

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Date: Mon, May 08, 2000 at 20:42:14 (GMT) From: cq Email: None To: jondon Subject: sappy sappy cloy cloy Message:

Don't forget, premiehood is dependent on thinking that someone else has the answer. Me? I'm with the Smarties.

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Date: Mon, May 08, 2000 at 17:11:22 (GMT) From: P.T. Head Email: None To: Jim Subject: Dominica nica nica nica...... Message:

la la la la la

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Date: Mon, May 08, 2000 at 18:06:13 (GMT) From: Granpa Hanky Email: None To: P.T. Head Subject: One nica too many. Now for the hard facts: Message:

One nica too many. Now for the hard facts: Name: Jeanine Decker born Oct 17, 1933 AKA Sister Luc Gabrielle Occupation: Dominican nun, Fichermont Convent Waterloo, Belguim Very outspoken concerning church theology and Vatican II changes. Did not like to be called Sister Smile Career: First hit, Dominique(1963) Changed name to Luc Dominique 1967 Began to write controversial songs in 1970 criticizing the church. Parents: Gabrielle and Lucien Deckers married 1932. Had four children; Jeanne-Paul Marie( Sister Luc) Hubert, Edgard and Madeleine. Relatives: Grandmother Denis and Aunt Sophie WWII: Lived in France during the Nazi occupation. Father in Resistence. Moved to Belguim, Sainte Henri, Woluwe-Saut-Lambert near Brussels in 1945. Art School: Sisters of St. Mary Art School. Paris 1953. Diary: Books based on journal found in 1978. Death : Age 52 Wavre, Belguim Suicide with friend, Annie Pecher 1985 Other; Jeanine and Annie owned a school for autistic children. The motive for the double suicide was the Belgian government's demand for $63,000 in back taxes for money earned during her brief singing career. The money was donated to the convent, but the Belgian government held her liable. Don't believe me? It's all here: http://www.joes.com/home/fichermont Keep pushin' Granpa Hanky

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Date: Tues, May 09, 2000 at 02:56:16 (GMT) From: raina Email: None To: Granpa Hanky Subject: no shit.... Message:

this has made me sad! it's hard to demonize such ugly human behavior (the reason for the suicide) when it doesn't have such an obvious face.....that would be a face worth attacking.....that would be my enemy...and i would be ruthless....and sneak up on it.....no chat rooms....well, maybe afterwards...

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Date: Mon, May 08, 2000 at 18:21:20 (GMT) From: Granmaw Hanky Email: None To: all Subject: Oh, gramps, - tetchy ol' dumplin'. Sing along now Message:

Oh, gramps, - tetchy ol' dumplin'. Sing along now Dominique, nique, nique s'en allait tout simplement Routier pauvre et chantant En tous chemins, en tous lieux, il ne parle que du bon Dieu Il ne parle que du bon Dieu A l'e poque ou Jean-sans-Terre de' Angleterre etait Roi Dominique, notre Pere, combattit les Albigeois Repeat first 4 lines: Chorus Ni chameau, ni diligence il parcout l'Europe a pied Scandinavie ou Provence dans la sainte pauvrete Refrain Enflamma de toute ecole filles et garcons pleins d'ardeur Et pour semer la Parole inventa les Freres-Precheurs Refrain Chez Dominique et ses freres le pain s'en vint a manquer Et deux anges se presenterent portant de grands pains dores Refrain Dominique vit en reve les precheurs du monde entier Sous le manteau de la Vierge en grand nombre rassembles Refrain Dominique, mon bon Pere, garde-nous simples et gais Pour annoncer a nos freres la Vie et la Verite Dominique, nique, nique, over the land he plods And sings a little song Never asking for reward He just talks about the Lord He just talks about the Lord At a time when Johnny Lackland Over England was the King Dominique was in the backland Fighting sin like anything Now a heretic, one day Among the thorns forced him to crawl Dominique with just one prayer Made him hear the good Lord's call Without horse or fancy wagon He crossed Europe up and down Poverty was his companion As he walked from town to town To bring back the straying liars And the lost sheep to the fold He brought forth the Preaching Friars Heaven's soldier's, brave and bold One day, in the budding Order There was nothing left to eat Suddenly two angels walked in With a loaf of bread and meat Dominique once, in his slumber Saw the Virgin's coat unfurled Over Frairs without number Preaching all around the world Grant us now, oh Dominique The grace of love and simple mirth That we all may help to quicken Godly life and truth on earth Refrain

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Date: Mon, May 08, 2000 at 17:09:30 (GMT) From: Way Email: None To: Jim Subject: If this is June, then I'm way behind Message:

Let's see how long it takes them to correct it to May.

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Date: Mon, May 08, 2000 at 17:54:10 (GMT) From: Robyn Email: None To: Way Subject: If this is June, then I'm way behind Message:

Dear Way, I know I am a failing, half hearted, incompetent birthday goddess but this time I missed my own birthday!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If it is June that is. :) Love, the b-day goddess :)

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Date: Mon, May 08, 2000 at 15:21:36 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Dettmers replies further to intervention story Message:

Got this email from Mike. Asked him if I could or if he wanted me to post it. He said yeah. Also, for anyone courious what, if any, further involvement he's had with this scene since his last appearance, Mike mentioned that he's had some good dialogues with JW and Susan. Otherwise, he's been busy at work. Jim, Yesterday you responded to one of the postings about the supposed alcoholic intervention. Thank you for prefacing your comments with 'To be fair to Dettmers.' Let me reiterate what I told you on the phone and, hopefully, put this issue to rest once and for all. I was the person who organized the two-day, executive retreat meeting at the San Yesidro facility in Santa Barbara in March or April of 1985. My purpose was to create an environment where Maharaji could explore different options to move his mission forward. I specifically wanted to explore how he might adopt a different leadership style -- one that was more personal and human as I had come to know him. To facilitate this process, I hired Will Schutz,a well published, professional consultant (not a psychiatrist) who worked with organizations all over the world, focusing especially on issues of leadership and organizational development. I attended the meeting along with Maharaji, his wife Marolyn, Joan Apter, Jean Marie Bonthous and two other organizers (their names have not been raised on the forum so I will respect their privacy) along with Will Schutz and one of his associates.. Because the purpose of the meeting was to discuss organizational and leadership issues, I invited people who represented different aspects of Maharaji's work, and who could contribute to these issues. Joan Apter, for instance, was invited as a representative of the instructors, and Jean Marie was invited because he played a very prominent role in organizing Maharaji's worldwide events. Maharaji invited Marolyn. If my real purpose was to conduct an alcoholic intervention, as has been suggested to you, does it make any sense that I would have selected Will Schutz to conduct it, or that I would have invited organizers, two of whom did not have a close, personal relationship with Maharaji? Second, it is not possible that a separate meeting could have taken place during the two days that we met without me knowing about it. There was no separate meeting. Hope this clears up any confusion about this matter. Michael

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Date: Mon, May 08, 2000 at 21:11:31 (GMT) From: JW Email: None To: Jim Subject: Thanks Michael and Jim for the clarification...nt Message:

nt

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Date: Mon, May 08, 2000 at 18:42:11 (GMT) From: Powerman Email: None To: Jim Subject: Dettmers replies further to intervention story Message:

Dettmers is a punk but I believe him on this.

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Date: Tues, May 09, 2000 at 03:07:25 (GMT) From: powerlover Email: None To: Powerman Subject: POWERMAN ROCKS! Message:

we love powerman

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Date: Tues, May 09, 2000 at 07:38:08 (GMT) From: Superman Email: None To: powerlover Subject: POWERMAN ROCKS! Message:

Be careful now... Just take the costume off and you see that powerman is really a four eyed pimply faced wimp with no chin Bugs Bunny teeth with shit for brains.

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Date: Tues, May 09, 2000 at 12:07:17 (GMT) From: soleman Email: None To: Superman Subject: That's what 'the inside' is for! Message:

the beauty within

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Date: Mon, May 08, 2000 at 21:35:57 (GMT) From: G Email: None To: all Subject: He still doesn't say that there NEVER was... Message:

Maybe I'm being thick, but he still doesn't say: that there NEVER was any alcoholic intervention or that he saw no evidence of Maharaji ever having a drinking problem.

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Date: Mon, May 08, 2000 at 22:04:43 (GMT) From: JW Email: None To: G Subject: True. You are right G, but... Message:

Michael apparently disagrees with the story we heard from someone else that such an intervention took place in the manner it was described, at that place in Santa Barbara. But you are correct, I haven't seen anything yet saying there wasn't an alcoholic intervention done on Maharaji at some point. And, I have never, ever, heard anyone who worked closely with Maharaji ever deny that he had a serious drinking problem, and I HAVE heard a couple of such people, including one person who was a lawyer in the Office of Guru Maharaj Ji for a number of years, say Maharaji definitely did have a drinking problem, as well as a problem keeping monogamus in his marriage. Obviously, he may have gotten help and no longer has a drinking problem, but who knows?

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Date: Mon, May 08, 2000 at 14:20:13 (GMT) From: Mel Bourne Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Why can't I become an ex-premie????? Message:

Hi all Why can’t I become an ex? After all, I’ve been hanging around here now for almost a couple of years now , reading and arguing, etc, etc. and I’m fully conversant with all the gossip of Maharaji’s “wayward” behaviour and the logic Jim and others string together to convince me that I am being fundamentally dishonest with myself if I don’t agree with the ex line. I know it all so well I that that I could probably be a highly successful ex debator. So WHY can’t I become an ex? What’s wrong with me? Why can’t I stop appearing to be an apologist for Maharaji ? I guess I am constantly weighing up the issues that are presented here with a personal experience of Knowledge that is undeniably real to me. When someone says something that confronts me, I think … “…do I agree with this or not?” If yes “ …should I cease my practice of Knowledge because of this?” “…does the image of Maharaji presented to me on these pages mean that I should be disloyal to the simple experience of meditation that has accompanied me through 26 years of good times and extremely bad times?” …. and the answer to the last two questions is always seems to be no. People may think that I am trying to be loyal and protective of Maharaji when I argue here, in fact I’m not., what I do value is the hope that the promise of Knowledge originally gave to me and the refuge of the experience during life’s more turbulent episodes that it has afforded me, which I can’t deny even if I wanted to… that’s what I am loyal to. So where does Maharaji fit into this for me? Well, he was instrumental in my learning how to cultivate this inner experience. Not because he’s the “Lord:” (or not), not because his is the “superior power in person” (or not), not because his is humble and poor (or not!), not because he gave me the opportunity to live in the ashram (or not), but simply because he was the agency by which I learnt to refocus my attention by the “techniques” of Knowledge. As a result of this experience I also agree with Maharaji's view of the benefits of Knowledge. The issues of “Lord or fraud?” can be (and are) debated endlessly, and, in my view whether I “love” or “react” to Maharaji as a person plays a minor part in the equation. Whether it should or not I don’t know, but I do know that I can always find fault and disagree with people (including Maharaji) about this or that, and that this seems a natural part of my interaction with the world around me, but I never particularly want to become obsessive about my reactions, and I certainly never want these perspectives and reactions to alienate me from the basic peaceful experience that I have come to enjoy and trust. As for my “cult” involvement, (as most of the longer term ex’s know) I live hundreds of kilometers from the nearest premie “community”, I am married to a person who does not “have Knowledge” and isn’t really interested in “receiving” it . I only see videos of Maharaji occassionally (once in two or three months - I guess that takes care of Nigels 'thought experiment' a thread or two back) and I haven’t seem Maharaji for three and half years. In short, I’m not a very promising candidate for a “suicidal” cult member that ex’s seem to think premies are, and I hardly regard my self as “protector of the faith” as Hal (or was it Gilead?) have suggested . So I guess that the only way that I could become an ex is for me to become convinced that my own personal experience is an illusion. How can that happen? The interaction that I have in “the world” is as challenging, real and as intense as anybody’s (including an ex’s, I’m sure) and the experience of Knowledge has grown sufficiently over the years for me to be acutely aware of it’s reassuring presence. For me to deny the experience that I’ve had with Knowledge would be like me looking at the sky and despite what I see, deny that it’s blue. So, I think that the challenge that ex’s really face, is to convince me and other premies that our experience of Knowledge is invalid, rather than constantly carping and whining about Maharaji’s personality and behaviour. It may be more than just good ol' brainwashing! Mel

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Date: Tues, May 09, 2000 at 15:41:18 (GMT) From: Look Mel: Email: None To: Mel Bourne Subject: Nice truth.... Message:

' When one tree falls, the forest is threatened. And one lost animal is reason for alarm for all of us.' Poet Dr. Maya Angelous

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Date: Tues, May 09, 2000 at 13:00:19 (GMT) From: Benjamin Franklin Email: None To: Mel Bourne Subject: 'The family of fools is ancient' nt Message:

nt

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Date: Tues, May 09, 2000 at 11:31:25 (GMT) From: Quote Email: None To: Mel Bourne Subject: 'An empty Bag cannot stand straight' nt Message:

BF

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Date: Tues, May 09, 2000 at 11:20:26 (GMT) From: Susu Email: None To: Mel Bourne Subject: Mel: Read this 'Here come Courage!.... Message:

that seized the lion absent, and run away from the present mouse.' Benjamin Franklin

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Date: Tues, May 09, 2000 at 11:04:16 (GMT) From: Mel: Never put your hand Email: None To: Mel Bourne Subject: in a jar with a trinket in it NT Message:

nt

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Date: Tues, May 09, 2000 at 11:02:34 (GMT) From: To Mel Email: None To: Mel Bourne Subject: Eat to live, not live to eat (nt) Message:

nt

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Date: Tues, May 09, 2000 at 10:59:55 (GMT) From: To Mel Email: None To: Mel Bourne Subject: Never put all eggs in one basket.... Message:

if the basket falls you'll have no eggs....rofl

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Date: Tues, May 09, 2000 at 09:16:46 (GMT) From: Nigel Email: fitzroy@liverpool.ac.uk To: Mel Bourne Subject: Quitting is a one-way process... Message:

..involving many stages. The stage you are at will be familiar to many here. I am sorry if this sounds patronising but it is the truth as I see it: nobody believes they could ever leave M while they are thinking and feeling the way you do at present. (We've been there). But leave they surely do when they finally make one or two vital, logical connections. Try this: do a 'search and replace' on your post substituting 'Sun Myung Moon' for 'Maharaji' and see whether you can detach yourself sufficiently to read the words of a cult member. The fact you spend so much virtual time and energy amongst those who have already left seems to suggest you have more doubts than you care to admit. Like I said, leaving is a one-way process and, believe me, things can happen in anybody's life which will shake their faith and convictions to their core. Don't imagine you are so different from the rest of us.

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Date: Tues, May 09, 2000 at 08:03:57 (GMT) From: Mili Email: mili@cheerful.com To: Mel Bourne Subject: Why can't I become an ex-premie????? Message:

Couldn't agree more, Mel. Thanks.

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Date: Tues, May 09, 2000 at 00:46:51 (GMT) From: VP Email: None To: Mel Bourne Subject: Why can't I become an ex-premie????? Message:

Mel, Who says the exes have any challenge to face (besides you in your last post, that is?) For me, the biggest challenge seems to be how to get together with a few exes to have a brew and lounge in the summer sun. You seem to be holding yourself up as some type of 'proof' that this site is failing in some kind of mission. No offense, but this borders on the dramatic. If you don't want to be an ex, don't. Do what works for you. I could care less and I know for a fact that others here feel the same. Why do you feel the need to hang out here? To prove to the world how very unconvincing we all are? To prove how very strong Knowledge is? The arguments are so old. Maybe I'm the one who doesn't need to hang out here. Would we like to see maharaji out of business? I can only answer for myself that I think it would be a good thing. But, on the other hand, if you are only seeing him once every four years and hardly ever watching a video, you aren't exactly keeping him in business, now are you? You may not be an ex, but what kind of a devotee are you?--snicker

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Date: Mon, May 08, 2000 at 23:43:29 (GMT) From: Daneane Email: None To: Mel Bourne Subject: I'm neither...and I wish neither existed.(nt) Message:

poof gone!!!

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Date: Mon, May 08, 2000 at 22:10:39 (GMT) From: JW Email: None To: Mel Bourne Subject: Don't be such a masochist... Message:

Why do you hang around here, and why are you saying this? Are you looking for validation from ex-premies? You are not going to get it, not with the wishy-washy stuff you just posted. If you like knowledge, and you appreciate Maharaji, despite everything else you know, then what are you doing here? Are you trying to inflict pain on yourself? Go, be happy, and good luck to you.

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Date: Mon, May 08, 2000 at 19:23:46 (GMT) From: Jerry Email: None To: Mel Bourne Subject: Stop worshipping M, that's how Message:

Mel, Is it just the experience of Knowledge you're interested in (which, I confess, is NOT something I can relate to), or are you also interested in Maharaji as a savior figure, a modern day Buddha or Jesus Christ? How much faith do you have in Maharaji in this regard? This is what really separates the exes from the premies, how we view Maharaji, himself -- not the meditation he's peddling.

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Date: Mon, May 08, 2000 at 19:35:12 (GMT) From: Cowboy Hank Hanky Email: None To: Jerry Subject: Remember, never kick a fresh turd on a hot day(nt) Message:

Remember, never kick a fresh turd on a hot day(nt)

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Date: Tues, May 09, 2000 at 05:55:46 (GMT) From: Antie Pearl Email: None To: Cowboy Hank Hanky Subject: Remember, never piss up-stream (nt) Message:

nt

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Date: Tues, May 09, 2000 at 05:58:06 (GMT) From: The One Armed Man Email: None To: Antie Pearl Subject: Never put your arm in a lion's mounth...... Message:

he said, off-handedly.

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Date: Tues, May 09, 2000 at 00:53:08 (GMT) From: VP Email: None To: Cowboy Hank Hanky Subject: Remember, never kick a fresh turd on a hot day(nt) Message:

Thanks for the laugh, whoever you are (Helen?)

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Date: Mon, May 08, 2000 at 19:49:54 (GMT) From: Jerry Email: None To: Cowboy Hank Hanky Subject: Uh, huh Message:

Y'know, if I really gave a shit, I'd ask you to explain what you mean, but I don't really give a shit, so...

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Date: Mon, May 08, 2000 at 19:59:11 (GMT) From: cq Email: None To: Jerry Subject: Never ask a barber if he thinks you need a haircut Message:

DON'T SQUAT WITH YOUR SPURS ON: A COWBOY'S GUIDE TO LIFE Don't never interfere with something that ain't botherin' you none. Timing has a lot to do with the outcome of a rain dance. There's more ways to skin a cat than stickin' his head in a boot jack and jerkin' on his tail. Some ranchers raise pigs and some will even admit it. Either way, they're raisin' pigs. Never kick a fresh turd on a hot day. The easiest way to eat crow is while it's still warm. The colder it gets, the harder it is to swaller. If you find yourself in a hole, the first thing to do is stop diggin'. Never smack a man who's chewin' tobacco. If it don't seem like it's worth the effort, it probably ain't. It don't take a genius to spot a goat in a flock of sheep. The biggest liar you'll ever have to deal with probably watches you shave his face in the mirror every morning. Never ask a barber if he thinks you need a haircut. If you get to thinkin' you're a person of some influence, try orderin' somebody else's dog around. Don't worry about bitin' off more'n you can chew. Your mouth is probably a whole lot bigger'n you think. Always drink upstream from the herd. Generally, you ain't learnin' nothin' when your mouth is a-jawin'. Tellin' a man to go to hell and makin' him do it are two entirely different propositions. Generally speakin', fancy titles and nightshirts are a waste of time. Trust everybody in the game, but always cut the cards. If you're ridin' ahead of the herd, take a look back every now and then to make sure it's still there. If you're gonna go...go like hell. If your mind's not made up, don't use your spurs.

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Date: Mon, May 08, 2000 at 19:11:03 (GMT) From: Nigel Email: fitzroy To: Mel Bourne Subject: Then go practice - Stop your OWN whining. (NT) Message:

nt

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Date: Mon, May 08, 2000 at 21:35:48 (GMT) From: Helen Email: None To: Nigel Subject: Then go practice - Stop your OWN whining. Message:

Yeah,Mel. Why are you trotting out your thought process for us to see? Do you think that seeing your thought process will help us to understand you? It helps me see that you are stuck in some weird argument inside your own head of why you should be grateful to M. If you want to go on believing that M is responsible for 'revealing' yourself to you, go on believing. If it gives you comfort, why not believe in it? But you can't justify it to us. We aren't going to buy it. God, when you taste how good it feels to be rid of all that rot you will feel so free! Reveal yourself to yourself. Noone else can do that for you.

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Date: Mon, May 08, 2000 at 18:13:28 (GMT) From: cq Email: None To: Mel Bourne et al Subject: Analogy: if I buy a good car from a crook ... Message:

Mel says he thinks that 'the challenge that ex’s really face, is to convince me and other premies that our experience of Knowledge is invalid' Analogy: if I buy a good car from a crook ... it's the car that's at fault???

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Date: Mon, May 08, 2000 at 17:16:04 (GMT) From: Robyn Email: None To: Mel Bourne Subject: Why can't I become an ex-premie????? Message:

Dear Mel, I don't think I've ever posted to you before, hi. I do not think all exes think you should deny your own inner experience. I know of many exes that still meditate. I have continued doing the light and the word techniques all these years. I think where we differ is how we see that meditation, as coming from m or as I believe that it is a natural ability and I just needed to become informed about it. Recently I have learned some Buddhist meditations and have found them extraordinaryly powerful. The most striking difference for me is that K keeps me inside myself and in these Buddhist practices I am trying out you follow the flow of your thoughts or create thoughts during the practice. I see these 2 ways as balances for each other. My point is that I have always benifited from practicing K but it isn't limited by or to m and I am now also learning that there are many types of meditation that may be benificial to me outside of K. So maybe then, by this definition, that an ex may still enjoy, have and benifit from an experience of meditation, maybe you are an ex! :) Either way enjoy that meditation! :) Love, Robyn

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Date: Mon, May 08, 2000 at 17:07:12 (GMT) From: raina Email: None To: Mel Bourne Subject: commonality thing Message:

like any 'cult' or religion....people have boundaries on their common ground (the illusion of common ground i daresay) It seems their are two types pf personalities in such a 'congregation' people guarding those boundries (and rules) and those who want to push them further and further out......there! like space travel! I'm a happy Clapper!

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Date: Mon, May 08, 2000 at 16:52:04 (GMT) From: raina Email: None To: Mel Bourne Subject: Sky may not be blue to the colorblind Message:

Since I mostly remember M's main points being about an experience that is virtually impossible to find words for (himself included at times).....this irony of this forum seems to make more sense than ever at times. I heard that M used to refer to the 'ashrams' as 'intensive care units'? As if he allowed them to go on because others impassioned by the idea convinced him to. Is this possibly true? (Note: that i am not repeating 2nd hand info as if I WERE there to hear it-as so many seem to be into doing here...so passionately no less...) I'm sure you've had your share of that 'talking to walls' feeling....and you'll see the response posts to yours as being so completely argumentative (as if they're not even responding to a word you said no less!) I can't imagine M walking around (in the early years) with a 'whip', beating the idea of himself 'as God' into anyones heads (instructors however I definately can! which seems to be the obvious problem.).....but do imagine him saying to himself 'surely they must know that I feel ridiculous in these silly clothes' as if his 'scarifice' was to take on 'a role' in order to create 'an order', if you will! As much as I feel for people who lost so much and were most decieved-most likely by someone other than M himself directly (myself included but in later years) it amazes me how pig-headed and reluctant they seem at times also. Making me realize more than ever how dangerous religion is...and even how potentially dangerous this place COULD be.....when everyone claim's to be searching for the ugliest truths (for hopefully the right reasons), but doesn't want to have their/our own moronic stupidity confronted..... (as if a Marjo vs. Maharji in a 1973 Star Search contest were going on! how fucked in the head does someone have to be to not see the 'stage'!!! The 'show'-business elment! I mean it's one thing to complain about the irony of screwed up people screwing each other up in their own warped misunderstanding...but no one seems to admit they got caught up in a 'trend'that was happening at the time for the totally wrong reasons...boiling down to 'peer pressure' or 'what's popular and 'happening'' or 'safety in numbers mentalities......and in fact people who were so totally lying to themselves more than M ever did it would seem?) what could be more PERSONAL than one's soul? hardly the trappings any 'spiritually aware' person would fall for? I once admitted hear that when M asked me (personally) 'are you sure'.....i really hadn't a clue but I said 'yes' to keep it short and sweet! (as I was 'instructed' to do!) so really i lied! as well-meaning as i was...i still lied......('Hello self! nice to meet me!'-what more does anyone want!?)

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Date: Mon, May 08, 2000 at 18:15:44 (GMT) From: Runamok Email: None To: raina Subject: Sky may not be blue to the colorblind Message:

It's silly to think M isn't responsible for the doctrine his organisation taught. He was the leader of the hierarchy which instructed people ('with whips' as you said). Aside from numerous quotes ('there has never been a time when the Lord has not manifested in human form') directly attributed to him, it is ultimately his own responsibility whatever he 'allowed' people around him to talk him into. That's my opinion. Having some positive memories of time spent with M is one thing, but letting him off the hook because of them is another. He's old enough to take responsibility. After all, that's why supposedly he has to be rich, so he can handle the strain of looking at it all and watching over it. But it's a crock. He's selling the Brooklyn Bridge and it isn't his, no matter how nice a guy he may seem to be, or how honest.

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Date: Mon, May 08, 2000 at 18:01:52 (GMT) From: hamzen Email: None To: raina Subject: But for some people it's rose tinted Message:

(1) If they were intensive care units then why did he treat the people so abysmally at the finish, if it wasn't just a money saving, cost cutting exercise? (2) You obviously have no idea about hippy culture in the early 70's and how gm pandered to that very quality, personally and through his mahatmas and organisational structures. (3) Have no problem confronting my own stupidity, or the naivete of new age/hippy thinking which was the basis for all our gullibility. Does gm have no responsibility for anything in your eyes? What about the ongoing for a long time jagdeo paedophile abuse? Maybe still ongoing?! Appreciation for life? Respect? I don't think so.

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Date: Tues, May 09, 2000 at 02:01:08 (GMT) From: raina Email: None To: hamzen Subject: The power of a 12 year old Message:

How should M's ALL-INCLUSIVE apology read? To satisfy both the people w/ legit gripes AND the friggin NUT JOBS! I am really trying to figure out what I'm missing here...and you are right about the 'hippy culure' and how they may have played into that etc.....If i were adult age on my own etc., tripping, blissing, innocently trusting....ya I'm just as impressionable etc..... But even when he's 17! he has people TELLING him what to say probably! Maybe he's even been threatened and manipulated 'blackmailed(?) himself (esp as a kid! 'no car unless you say it THIS way baby guru!') And he has to be allowed some time to be free of that (well past 18 even)...you quoted something about him saying 'Lord of the universe' hubala? as if I hear him as you do? even in the quotes I'M SENSIBLE enough to question the intention, and NO it's NOT at all sounding as if he is saying HE is lord embodies etc.....Not at all..... When you ask if I think M should take responsibility? Obviously he must. Unless he's a really stupid man.....and i don't hear anyone accusing him of stupidity. But how he is allowed to express that regret is to a large degree dependent on the enemies ability to HEAR/listen to an apology- an apology that might start out gradually....and as soon as a maniac lunges at him with a knife,uh, i guess the apology will be postponed to say the least? And what kind of 'apology' EXACTLY is it that HUNDREDS of people want to hear-that will satisfy them all? #1) Oh! OK fred! I'm SORRY that you started wetting your pants after recieving k. Please allow me to pay your DEPENZ bills till you die? (and of course fred will be so in love with being able to control this object of his obsession for 25 years, that he will PREFER to remain incontenant..!) 'Pied Pipers' and lemmingism..... Maybe there are stories of people being drugged? Both without their knowledge or even offered recreationally etc? Something that is more than bitching....

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Date: Tues, May 09, 2000 at 14:01:05 (GMT) From: Is call brainwashing... Email: None To: raina Subject: ..these days of studies Message:

Do you know that to be inmoral enough or not? He grew to a educated society. He received hundreads of letters that he never responded, asking him about the 'cultish personality people' he attracts... Read The Guru Papers in Jean-Michel's site!! If not: Run to his arms. He loves suckers like you!

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Date: Tues, May 09, 2000 at 16:40:51 (GMT) From: raina Email: None To: Is call brainwashing... Subject: it's called EXCORCISM moron Message:

i have no need to run to anyone! but thanx for the warped (and wholly malicious) advice! you lover of truth you!

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Date: Tues, May 09, 2000 at 02:54:13 (GMT) From: uh-Oh Email: gerry@veryhotmail.com To: raina Subject: I think I'm falling in love... Message:

but it's a thin line !!!

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Date: Mon, May 08, 2000 at 16:03:26 (GMT) From: Susan Email: None To: Mel Bourne Subject: why not stay a premie then? Message:

I do not think a person has to be intellectually dishonest to say that knowldge has value as you state it. If that is what makes a person a premie then fine, be a premie. What you do have to be 'dishonest' about is the Lord stuff. He either is or he isn't. That to any ethical person should matter. It should matter to you that he let people worship him as God if he wasn't. And he did. And he isn't. That is an ugly thing to do. I just don't see how you can imply. 'ah, played God, no biggie' I don't see why your experience of K has any bearing whatsoever on the God thing. Two seperate issues.

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Date: Mon, May 08, 2000 at 15:40:56 (GMT) From: HERE MEL Email: None To: Mel Bourne Subject: It may as well be for YOU TOO! Message:

Coach responded: Your post is a perfect example of the most appalling drival imaginable. First off, you invoke the 'we' word. This is always symptomatic of the same ol' sad cult mentality. Always best to speak for everybody else, huh, after all you know best we all need don't you? We should do this and we should do that and we should do the fuckin' hokey cokey an' shake it all about. Second off, what's all this 'path' shit. Just because you've dreamed up a nice little spiritual fantasy in your head with a little path an' a nice little journey that ends somewhere over the rainbow doesn't mean fuck all. That's the trouble with spiritual metaphors and analogies, they just lead from one to another mutating and gathering momentum. Before not too long you got a full blooded religion festerin' in your head with all the bells and whistles. Just like the one you got. You know, with the paths, masters, knowledges, serviles et al. Then whaddya do. Start givin' out advice. Don't be a victim and shit. Jezz get up, dust yourself off and carry on your little journey along your little path. How quaint, how fucking patronising. That's one thing that makes me laugh about premies. They just can't get out of the habit of givin' out bad advice after bad advice. Who do you think you are? Francis of fuckin' Assisi. So you enjoy practising knowledge. Well, bully for you. Just had to let everybody know you're doin' the right thing didn't you. Go tell your boss 'bout it. Put an announcement in your local newspaper. Get it up on the net. Get your own fuckin' site. Don't fuckin' tell the X's. They ain't interested. Didn't you know? Of course it doesn't bother you that this site exists. Well it fuckin' should. Maharaji has said he doesn't want premies like you reading this site. Or don't you do what your lord and master says these days? What about 'syncronisation,' huh? I'm sure he'd be well pleased with you directing pre-knowledge neophytes here to get a balanced view of things. I bet that'd spice the 'question session' up a bit. 'Er, Maharaji, over on the ex-premie website it says you're a drunk and an adulterer, will this affect the order I do the techniques in or what?' 'Fears, doubts, guilts and insecurities.' What the fuck are you talkin' about. I don't see anybody quakin' in their boots, riddled with doubt, plagued by guilt or beset with insecurities. Anybody else? No, but YOU do. Why? Because you're a premie. Consequently, anyone or anything that presents any criticism of Maharaji has to be wrong or 'confused.' Or full of 'fears, doubts, guilts and insecurities' as you put it. And lastly off. Who fuckin' says the point it to find what works, etc? I'll let you into a secret, dumbo. There are vast, teeming armies of human beings who ain't lookin' for jack shit. Know why? They ain't plagued with the same disease you got. The illness of the 'seeker.' They know what works. They don't need you or any sickly smiley premie to tell them what they need to be OK. They already got all they need. But you'll keep on handin' out your second hand advice till you drop. 'Cos you don't even think about what you're doin'. You're on automatic. PROGRAMMED, with a capital 'P'. Off you go now, down your little path. Watch out for the big bad wolf. Jaisatshitanand!!

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Date: Tues, May 09, 2000 at 10:55:42 (GMT) From: Hey Mel! Email: None To: HERE MEL Subject: DID you read it? nt Message:

nt

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Date: Mon, May 08, 2000 at 15:26:50 (GMT) From: Stuart M Email: None To: Mel Bourne Subject: Why can't I become an ex-premie????? Message:

I enjoyed reading your forum input - keep pressing the keys! I have practiced for 25 years and similarly to yourself, do not feel uncomfortable about it. I was part of the 70's DLM 'group thang', but now find my needs for fellowship / community / people to 'be' with through my other life involvements. None of these people (as far as I know) practice Knowledge. That feels OK to me. I'm comfortable about this site existing - although probably if a few of the 'ex-premies' were to do some bodywork (yoga, martial arts, dance)- they would realise that what they were so angry about wasn't anything to do with M & Knol. So i'm trusting the path i'm on and getting on with it...I appreciate.

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Date: Tues, May 09, 2000 at 15:40:08 (GMT) From: WiseOne Email: None To: Stuart M Subject: Look Stuart! Message:

' When one tree falls, the forest is threatened. And one lost animal is reason for alarm for all of us.' Poet Dr. Maya Angelous

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Date: Mon, May 08, 2000 at 21:40:52 (GMT) From: Helen Email: None To: Stuart M Subject: Why can't I become an ex-premie????? Message:

Yeah, like I did some tai chi the other day and said to myself 'whoa, I am like SO in touch with myself, ya know? I am like SO CLEAR that I am not angry at Maharji, I am really angry at my 3rd grade teacher in my former life on planet Starburst. Wow, you are like SO RIGHT ON, Stuart!' Stuart that is the biggest crock of shit!!

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Date: Mon, May 08, 2000 at 15:48:16 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: Stuart M Subject: Here's my challenge to you, Stuart Message:

I dare you to call me. (250) 360-1040. Give me a bit of your time and don't hang up at the first gulp. We'll see who'll realize what after about fifteen minutes. You know, sometimes it's so tiresome arguing with premies on-line. All this typing and waiting, you know? But give me a bit of your time and, without a doubt, I'll have you reeling and wodering aghast at the lengths you'll find yourself going to to keep your premie head underwater. Kind of like reverse treading, or something. My skill? Ha! Bullshit. Just the facts, that's all. We've heard all the premie arguments here and we've got more than enough good hard data and common sense to blow the premie trip out of the water. I know. I've done it so many times now I can't count. There has never been a premie whou could stay in the conversation! No kidding. On-line it's a bit different because you can obfuscate so easily in this medium. But in a real discussion? Forget it. So come on, Stuart. Call me and tell me what I'm 'really' angry about. I dare you.

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Date: Mon, May 08, 2000 at 15:38:55 (GMT) From: SB Email: None To: Stuart M Subject: Why can't YOU become an ex-premie????? Message:

You are a devotee, baby... The Guru won!! Simple...but...you can get out if you wanted to. But you want a guru in yoyr life? Don't you? Enjoy it then. Quit coming here with your stupidity!

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Date: Tues, May 09, 2000 at 01:21:00 (GMT) From: The bad fairy Email: None To: SB Subject: Why can't YOU become an ex-premie????? Message:

C'mon children - lets have some REAL venom - this jest aint good enough!

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Date: Tues, May 09, 2000 at 14:12:28 (GMT) From: SB: OK...here Email: None To: The bad fairy Subject: Venom? Message:

The guy is made of butter: No challenge. I'll be waiting to 'spill venom' after Mel talks in the phone with Jim...If it happens...I wish I could be in Mel's brain: TRIPLE rofl!!!!

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Date: Mon, May 08, 2000 at 15:23:45 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: Mel Bourne Subject: Read The Guru Papers (nt) Message:

rr

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Date: Mon, May 08, 2000 at 15:05:35 (GMT) From: Way Email: None To: Mel Bourne Subject: Premie or ex-premie??? Message:

Mel Bourne, OK, just where do you fit on the premie/ex-premie continuum? We are definitely talking shades of gray here. On a scale of 1 to 10, how do you score? 1 being a full-fledge ex and 10 being a perfect premie. Well, you're certainly no 10. I assume, by your pen-name, that you are Australian. If you were a premie worth your weight in devotion, you would have traveled to Amaroo to see your master last month, no matter what the time and costs concerns. You would know that your inner experience depends upon being with the teacher. I would check you off as maybe a 3 in the devotion to the master department. Now then, you describe Knowledge as a refuge from life's more turbulent episodes. Not exactly the kind of description you get from a real premie. No divine light? No bliss? No true love? I would check you off as maybe a 3 in the sat-chit-anand department. What about participation? How many people have you told about Mahararji lately? What monies have you donated to the cause? You haven't yet told us those facts, so I can't confidently assign you a number for the participation department. But I assume it's not above a 3, eh? Finally, you say that what the exes would like to do is to convince you that your experience of Knowledge is invalid. I, for one, have no such interest. How could I know enough about your experience to judge it? But since you brought it up, you might explain just what you are talking about? What is your 'experience of Knowledge'? I sincerely doubt it is much different from my own, or anyone else's, no matter where they stand on the 1 to 10 scale. But seriously, Mel, you don't have to become an ex. You can keep your experience, and value it. You're you, you're alive, you're learning, and you will pass on from this life not too long from now. There's no need to figure out where you stand in regard to premie vs ex-premie. That's not what any of us are here to do. Life is a lot more real than that! But what I would submit to you is that what you describe as 'my experience of Knowledge' is not really any different than what a Catholic experiences at Mass, or what a Buddhist experiences with his or her practice, or what an artist experiences expressing their art, or what a child experiences swinging on a swing on a summer day. Love is real. The underlying oneness is real, it exists as it is. But no cult, including Rawat's, has any effect on it. So don't give Rawat the credit for your own innate experience of truth and compassion. Practice your love, by all means, but also practice discernment.

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Date: Mon, May 08, 2000 at 16:48:30 (GMT) From: Gregg Email: None To: Way Subject: That last paragraph says it all, Way! (nt) Message:

nt

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Date: Tues, May 09, 2000 at 01:01:19 (GMT) From: VP Email: None To: Gregg Subject: That last paragraph says it all, Way! (nt) Message:

I agree with Gregg. You are too cool, Way. Life is a lot more real than this. BRAVO!

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Date: Mon, May 08, 2000 at 14:39:43 (GMT) From: Gregg Email: None To: Mel Bourne Subject: Why can't I become an ex-premie????? Message:

Interesting points, Mel. And you're right; I wouldn't/couldn't refute your experience of Knowledge. But remember, most of us had blissful experiences, learning experiences, etc. while practicing premies, and we are exes now. Why? For most of us, we came to believe (yes, believe: we can't prove anything either!) that Maharaj Ji was not 'the agency' (as you put it) of our experiences. Some exes have come to believe that our 'experiences' were a result of cultic practices, were simply mental phenomenon, not entirely benign. Others of us (myself included) still operate with the belief that there is a transcendent reality, something both within us and beyond us, that spiritual practices help to nurture. We think, though, that these practices have borne juicier fruit in the post-Maharaji years, either because we are free of the guru/disciple illusion, or because we have found teachers who seem more in control of their subject matter and their personal lives. Just because your first spiritual experiences have been with M doesn't mean that greater possibilities are not out there waiting for you.

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Date: Mon, May 08, 2000 at 17:20:19 (GMT) From: Way Email: None To: Gregg Subject: To Gregg Message:

Your last paragraph ain't too shabby, either. Now, I wonder if Mel will comment?

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Date: Mon, May 08, 2000 at 17:29:50 (GMT) From: Elaine B. Email: None To: Way Subject: To Gregg and Way Message:

Well, I will. Why can't everyone be as clear and reasonable as you two. I read yours first. Now I will go up and read rest - maybe they are all like yours.

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Date: Tues, May 09, 2000 at 12:56:41 (GMT) From: SB Email: None To: Elaine B. Subject: Sorry some us 'disappoint you' nt Message:

nt NOT!!

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Date: Tues, May 09, 2000 at 16:19:46 (GMT) From: Elaine B Email: None To: SB Subject: I am too. Message:

Personal attacks are mean.Period. I thought it was M you hated -why take it out on possibly 'future exes'?

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Date: Tues, May 09, 2000 at 18:16:29 (GMT) From: SB Email: None To: Elaine B Subject: You didn't hear it the first time? Message:

I do not attack premie's personlly, I attack their ideas, which were mine, not too long a go... I said that already to you in other post, Elaine. peace, sb

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Date: Tues, May 09, 2000 at 19:35:06 (GMT) From: Elaine Email: None To: SB Subject: You didn't hear it the first time?Perfect example. Message:

I know you said it. Doesn't feel that way. And I trust my feelings. I believe you do not realize how intense your posts are. Why, even in your 'subject' can you tell me otherwise ?- that you are not being condescending or sarcastic. 'You didn't hear it the 1st x?' I mean really. You don't see your words as being potentially hurtful and thus turning people off to what you may have to say -- after words of put downs. Example: Put down-'You didn't hear it the first time? Ignore---' peace,' There is indeed a fine line between attacking a person's ideas and attacking them. In print esp.it would be hard for most anyone to read your words and clearly and know -Oh, she's not putting me down - only my ideas.And then not internalize it and get upset in some way - have a reaction. It seems to me that you read a post and immediately start typing with a reaction instead of sitting and pondering it awhile. I find this alot here. And others have commented on it. Writing this I already anticipate an intense response like most of your others. Emotions in communicating don't work really well. And yours to me are an example of this. Elaine

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Date: Wed, May 10, 2000 at 00:38:07 (GMT) From: SB Email: None To: Elaine Subject: Excuse me Madam.... Message:

You continue in this post accusing me of attacking premies and of being rude. I react to posts like everyone else! Why you seem to want to point to my posts, I do not understand? I'll try to sugar coat anything I'll write to you in the future...Obviously you are more sensitive than what I thought. Can be nice to get some answers from you, thought... Otherwise, what is this forum for would be one of the things that I feel you have to think about...I do not come here to maintain a friendship writing long posts everytime, to everyone: Sometimes I do not have the time to do so, but something cuts my attention, usually the BS of the writer. What is wrong with JUST asking questions?? Am I missing something? Maybe is my blind spot... I do not like you coming here thinking that you are above all because you are not! If you are going to say something be responsible for it or don't say it! I really would like you to respond my questions...They are valid ones! More peace to you and everyone. Love, lots of it. No, I'm not a mean person, that for sure...Relax a little, would you? Chill!

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Date: Wed, May 10, 2000 at 01:25:17 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: SB Subject: Here's where the problem is, ladies Message:

There's nothing the least bit too rude or even intense in SB's approach if you really want to look at things. It's like lighting. Sometimes you want soft, romantic lighting, the kind where almost anyone looks good in a G string. When the person dies, though, (God forbid!) you need the harsh, unforgiving light of the autopsy room (sorry, must be my work). Depends what you want to do with your eyes. Now, Elaine, you might be nice, chatty and eminently reasonable (for a person who still follows one of the original laughingstock gurus of the sixties and seventies) but you definitely aren't into scrutinizing Maharaji. You're playing defence, remember? SB, on the other hand, wants answers. She's looking hard. You're not. Another apt analogy might be that, while you're still a lover of Maharaji you'll shoot him in soft focus. SB wants to see it all, sharp-focus and ugly if that's what it is. So, tell me, aren't those atitudes always going to be in conflict? SB's always going to seem to indelicate to Elaine and Elaine too evasive to SB. That's just a given. But, of course, Elaine, your position ain't worth shit. In fact, it's so entirely confused that any decent discussion would force you to abandon at least some part of it. But, really, who's got the time?

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Date: Wed, May 10, 2000 at 02:45:43 (GMT) From: Elaine Email: None To: Jim Subject: Here's where the problem is, ladies Message:

Now see? THAT was unemotional. Thank you,Jim.

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Date: Wed, May 10, 2000 at 02:57:30 (GMT) From: SB Email: None To: Elaine Subject: Here's where the problem is, ladies Message:

Dear Elaine, Would you explain WHAT IN THE HELL YOU MEAN?? Laugh more, play more....

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Date: Wed, May 10, 2000 at 14:04:00 (GMT) From: Elaine Email: None To: SB Subject: Here's where the problem is... Message:

No. I went back to read all your posts. I don't like you. You want me to explain - re-read some of my posts. Then I'm finished with you. I don't care if you're my neighbor,premie or ex or co-worker, I'm done with you. Follow my posts w/ others if you wish. For others - I'm not mad or upset,just finished with her. Like waving a fly away. Any one think that's hurtful - I think she can handle it.Call it 'tough love'. Elaine

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Date: Wed, May 10, 2000 at 15:20:07 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: Elaine Subject: You have no complaint against SB Message:

You have no absolutely no grounds for any personal complaint with SB. She was in the cutl for years, only left it recently, saw her whole life sidetracked by Maharaji's deceit and isn't about to soft-peddle her thoughts ro feelings to leave a little more comfort room for current cult members like you. She's got every bit as much humour and personality as you have and there's not a reason in the world for you to dislike her. You're the one who's trying to maintain the high-wire act here. Forgive her if she's not clapping.

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Date: Thurs, May 11, 2000 at 03:24:29 (GMT) From: Stonor Email: None To: SB, Elaine, and Jim Subject: You have no complaint against Elaine!!! Message:

Just read your posts. As Jim has decided to step in as he did and take sides against Elaine, I will add my tiddley winks. IMO, Jim, you are patronizing both of them - there was no need for you to step in. Elaine, to my knowledge, has never attacked SB and she has been attacked in other places on this page by SB. Elaine's response to SB's 'You didn't hear it the first time?' was quite appropriate. She still does not attack, but states that she wants nothing more to do with SB because she is being hurt by her. SB, whether or not you and every ex on this page thinks Elaine is missing your point, I think that her message is clear. What is lacking is your apology for having hurt her, and your attempt to understand why. Stonor And Jim, you like to see people adopt your modus operandi, don't you. Levels the playing field a bit and makes you feel even more 'right.' And I'm sure that as a lawyer, you know full well the value of upsetting or angering someone - you get to 'hold their lives in your hands,' and I think you like the power. And do you remember your first response to one of my first posts? I won't forget. It was 'What the fuck do you know about any of this?' You know what happpens every time you try to 'attack' me Jim? I meet your attack, and you run away (to attack someone else, no doubt). Winning/being right is everything for you, isn't it Jim? You know what is everything for me, Jim? Learning and understanding which is what I wrote then. It's somewhat relevant to the topic, so here is our first encounter. (Didn't catch the date+ here) From Stonor to An Ex-ex Yes, this is what I'm finding in many areas: this endless desire to trash indiscriminately the others on both sides, virtually ignoring the individual free wills involved. it seems that you have personal experience on all three(?) sides of the fence. Any insights to share? Return to Index -:- Top of Index Date: Mon, Feb 21, 2000 at 01:31:31 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: stonor Subject: What the fuck do you know about any of this? Message: 'trash indiscriminately'? I take it you know all about the cult such that you can tell how much discrimination has or hasn't been used assessing such and such facts, right? Otherwise, of course, for all you know, the people here are trashing the cult with great discrimination. How would you know? Return to Index -:- Top of Index Date: Mon, Feb 21, 2000 at 01:38:33 (GMT) From: stonor Email: None To: Jim Subject: no need to get abusive Jim Message: I was referring to the general 'us vs. others' that seems to be everywhere today. You may take my comment to ex.Ex as slightly sarcastic if you wish. Return to Index -:- Top of Index Date: Mon, Feb 21, 2000 at 01:41:22 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: stonor Subject: what? Message: Then I don't know what the hell you're saying. Care to try again? Return to Index -:- Top of Index Date: Mon, Feb 21, 2000 at 02:14:04 (GMT) From: stonor Email: None To: Jim Subject: attempted reply to: what? Message: It seems that ex-Ex has been jumping in and out a few times, yet he's still trashing others himself. Did he trash/threaten others in all three positions - insider, ex-insider, and returned insider? I'm still not sure if you'll understand. Even if I haven't been 'in', I have known those that have/are, and I have had my own brushes with the issue. I am trying to understand too, Jim. Return to Index -:- Top of Index Date: Mon, Feb 21, 2000 at 15:17:47 (GMT) From: Hal Email: None To: stonor Subject: attempted reply to: what? Message: I understand you and yes it would be interesting to hear a reply from double x , perhaps soon to become triple x. But they havn't replied to me either. Strange when someone comes out from behind a wall to have a little sneer yet then won't respond anymore. Return to Index -:- Top of Index

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Date: Thurs, May 11, 2000 at 09:26:39 (GMT) From: SB Email: None To: Stonor Subject: Did you sleep last night? Message:

First part of Stonor's message: Just read your posts. As Jim has decided to step in as he did and take sides against Elaine, I will add my tiddley winks. IMO, Jim, you are patronizing both of them - there was no need for you to step in. Elaine, to my knowledge, has never attacked SB and she has been attacked in other places on this page by SB. Elaine's response to SB's 'You didn't hear it the first time?' was quite appropriate. She still does not attack, but states that she wants nothing more to do with SB because she is being hurt by her. SB, whether or not you and every ex on this page thinks Elaine is missing your point, I think that her message is clear. What is lacking is your apology for having hurt her, and your attempt to understand why. Well, thanks! You are such a good thinker! No, I do not agree with you either. Did you really read all posts? I HURT Elaine? In what way? Can you explain some more? How did I ATTACKED her personally? I only asked questions and also responded to some comments that I took as if Elaine was talking for me and also because her mentality is very similar to mine, before making up my mind to be an ex. I do not agree with you. I do not feel that I have to appologize 'because she felt hurt' when I did nothing to cause her pain. She got hurt because the truth hurts? That's more like it, but then, why come here to talk stupidity and expect that others would say cute things back. She thinks Mariachi have the right to exists after having said that he was God, etc.? Give me a brake... I have always enjoyed most of your posts and cannot believe this one from you. Do you mind to look again? No, no appologies from me. Maybe she OWNS ME an appology for calling me a mean person, which IS a personal attack! She didn't criticized my ideas, she talked about SB as mean...Me mean...hahahaha Far from the truth! SB -

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Date: Thurs, May 11, 2000 at 05:37:56 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: Stonor Subject: Shut up (nt) Message:

:j

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Date: Thurs, May 11, 2000 at 21:24:55 (GMT) From: Stonor Email: None To: Jim Subject: Your words speak for themselves, Jim. (NT) Message:

Your words speak for themselves, Jim. (NT)

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Date: Thurs, May 11, 2000 at 00:12:27 (GMT) From: SB Email: None To: Jim Subject: TXs for trying to cover up.... Message:

that I'm a monster...She doesn't like ME: Buaaaaaa......... Daddy? Where are you??? :)

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Date: Wed, May 10, 2000 at 15:56:05 (GMT) From: Elaine Email: None To: Jim Subject: You have no complaint against SB Message:

I don't need her to clap to like her. How little you know. There are plenty of exes here that say really bad things about M. I don't have problems with them. There is a meanness of spirit that I detect-( anger and meanness or hurtfulness are different)--- I have stated I do believe she doesn't realize how intense she is.Benefit of doubt and all. She will still come back with that mean edge about her. She's too defensive and needs some work on communication skills.(For ME). But, whoa to anyone to suggest it. And yes, maintaining a high wire act - if that is referring to being kinder and more civil in expressing thoughts -yes,I am guilty. For some reason,tho you Jim can write intense things - there is a 'certain' edge from you I don't perceive. There is a brashness I am not offended by. I'm sure you've noticed I'm not bothered by you. I've read old posts and you have been the butt of alot of disagreements bec of the way you post,no? And to say there is 'no reason to dislike her..' - isn't true. (Now see, example - she may have said----'is stupid'.) There are subtlies in the 'way' she writes that I see and you don't. They bother me. I don't like her - I gave her a chance - and now I'm waving her away like a pesky bug. I don't wish any harm - just go away. And again, I don't know why you don't bother me and she does - I will ponder it if I must - but it's just not worth my time,really. I'm sure there are plenty of people that like her just fine - she can go off with them. Being 'liked' is not the end all and be all. And why do you care anyway,Jim? Elaine

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Date: Wed, May 10, 2000 at 23:49:14 (GMT) From: SB Email: None To: Elaine Subject: Elaine, look! Message:

Elaine, You are not funny anymore with ALL THOSE PERSONAL ACCUSATIONS!! You know nothing about me, but you are quick to say how mean I am because I ask you staright questions? Go cry to the feet of your cult leader, he'll give you truth! NOT!!!! You are off the wagon!! You are craying wolf, aren't you, well, guess what? I do not give a dam what you think about me! I mean it>.. You do not know me...I'm too blunt for you, mainly, because you want to hide your little lies about your guru....SHHHHHHHHH..... sb, AKA sUPER bRAT, YES!! i HAVE WHERE TO LEAN ON, YOU DON'T: iS CALL BRAINS AT WORK!! gO AHEAD, CALL ME MEAN, ah!

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Date: Mon, May 08, 2000 at 13:21:56 (GMT) From: Dave Email: vpost3@hotmail.com To: Everyone Subject: A question you may like to answer Message:

There's a new question in The Polling Booth and you are welcome to answer it.

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Date: Tues, May 09, 2000 at 13:30:08 (GMT) From: Yes, it happened to me Email: None To: Dave Subject: When Mariachi snatched my soul...NT Message:

NT

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Date: Mon, May 08, 2000 at 15:57:48 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: Dave Subject: A question you may like to amend Message:

Dave, 'Have you had an outer body experience?' is akin to asking 'Have you ever seen a unicorn?'. It presupposes that we're familiar enough with so-called OBE's to be able to recognize one without issue. Wouldn't a better question be: 'Do you think you've ever had an out of body experience?'

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Date: Mon, May 08, 2000 at 17:20:41 (GMT) From: Dave Email: vpost3@hotmail.com To: Jim Subject: A question you may like to amend Message:

If a person experiences themselves as being outside of their body, kind of floating around and looking at their body, then I guess they would think they'd had an OBE. I've never had such an experience although I know some people personally who say they have had it. Now I am not trying to ascertain whether these experiences are real, hallucinations or dreams. I'm just polling to see what proportion of people have had them.

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Date: Mon, May 08, 2000 at 19:04:30 (GMT) From: Celia Spacecase Email: None To: Dave Subject: When was my last 'in-the-body' experience??? (nt) Message:

When was my last 'in-the-body' experience??? (nt)

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Date: Tues, May 09, 2000 at 02:20:35 (GMT) From: come 2 Popa CiCi Email: None To: Celia Spacecase Subject: When was my last 'in-the-body' experience??? (nt) Message:

c2p

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