Forum V: Archive
Compiled: Sat, May 13, 2000 at 16:56:52 (GMT)
From: Apr 30, 2000 To: May 12, 2000 Page: 3 Of: 5


Gilead -:- ILLEGAL DEPROGRAMMING --THE EXPERTS -:- Sun, May 07, 2000 at 04:07:05 (GMT)
__ Gilead -:- please educate me on people who want deprogramming -:- Sun, May 07, 2000 at 04:24:21 (GMT)
__ __ Mommy Peeping Turtle Head -:- Please help my boy! (nt) -:- Sun, May 07, 2000 at 04:35:13 (GMT)
__ Peeping Turtle Head -:- Budding Terrorist? -:- Sun, May 07, 2000 at 04:22:38 (GMT)
__ __ Gilead -:- What does that mean? -:- Sun, May 07, 2000 at 04:26:54 (GMT)
__ Susan -:- you are nuts he's Jewish you fool! -:- Sun, May 07, 2000 at 04:15:22 (GMT)
__ __ Elaine B -:- Susan way off topic (OT) -:- Sun, May 07, 2000 at 13:06:44 (GMT)
__ __ __ Susan -:- Hi to Elaine (ot) -:- Tues, May 09, 2000 at 15:06:01 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Susan -:- more(ot) -:- Tues, May 09, 2000 at 15:12:19 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Elaine -:- Jagdeo -:- Tues, May 09, 2000 at 16:42:43 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Susan -:- more to Elaine (ot) -:- Tues, May 09, 2000 at 17:46:18 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Elaine -:- Susan,pedophiles -:- Tues, May 09, 2000 at 19:41:53 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Susan -:- Susan,pedophiles -:- Tues, May 09, 2000 at 19:50:13 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Elaine -:- Already read all - going inactive (nt -:- Wed, May 10, 2000 at 00:30:57 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Stonor -:- It's a 'guy' thing, the under the carpet. -:- Tues, May 09, 2000 at 20:47:25 (GMT)
__ __ Gilead -:- what does he think of Zionist ideology? -:- Sun, May 07, 2000 at 04:21:27 (GMT)
__ __ __ Jethro -:- what does he think of Zionist ideology?(OT) -:- Tues, May 09, 2000 at 10:35:52 (GMT)
__ __ __ Susan -:- I do not ususally call people fools -:- Sun, May 07, 2000 at 16:11:01 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Susan -:- ooops -:- Tues, May 09, 2000 at 04:14:49 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Gilead -:- I do not ususally call people fools -:- Mon, May 08, 2000 at 01:41:47 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Jethro -:- Re: Arab -Jews(OT) -:- Mon, May 08, 2000 at 22:49:27 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Jim -:- I love it when you girls get angry! -:- Sun, May 07, 2000 at 18:28:13 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Susan -:- thanks Jim you reminded me of #6 that you are Amer -:- Sun, May 07, 2000 at 19:48:56 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Susan -:- And.... -:- Sun, May 07, 2000 at 19:54:15 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Gilead -:- And.... -:- Mon, May 08, 2000 at 01:44:50 (GMT)
__ __ __ Curly -:- what does he think of Zionist ideology? -:- Sun, May 07, 2000 at 14:41:02 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Gilead -:- what does he think of Zionist ideology? -:- Mon, May 08, 2000 at 01:54:01 (GMT)

george chakaris -:- curious -:- Sun, May 07, 2000 at 01:51:59 (GMT)
__ James Flynn -:- curious -:- Sun, May 07, 2000 at 13:49:18 (GMT)
__ Nigel -:- And why should you care? -:- Sun, May 07, 2000 at 13:23:17 (GMT)
__ Gregg -:- curious -:- Sun, May 07, 2000 at 03:15:09 (GMT)
__ gerry -:- curious -:- Sun, May 07, 2000 at 02:18:14 (GMT)
__ Jim -:- Education level? (nt) -:- Sun, May 07, 2000 at 01:53:40 (GMT)
__ __ Selene -:- Education level doesn't mean shit!! -:- Sun, May 07, 2000 at 01:57:31 (GMT)
__ __ __ Elaine B. -:- Education level doesn't mean shit!! -:- Sun, May 07, 2000 at 12:44:54 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ SB -:- Maharaji's, u mean? nt -:- Tues, May 09, 2000 at 14:37:36 (GMT)
__ __ __ Katie -:- Education level doesn't mean shit!! -:- Sun, May 07, 2000 at 02:04:55 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Ajax -:- Dating Satan/Face Slashing -:- Sun, May 07, 2000 at 02:50:35 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Katie -:- Dating Satan/Face Slashing -:- Sun, May 07, 2000 at 02:55:27 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Ajax -:- Dating Satan/Face Slashing -:- Sun, May 07, 2000 at 03:03:38 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Katie -:- Dating Satan -:- Sun, May 07, 2000 at 03:06:17 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Will Do....Thanx (nt) -:- Dating Satan -:- Sun, May 07, 2000 at 03:11:00 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Jim -:- Naw, you're noth wrong -:- Sun, May 07, 2000 at 02:30:31 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Katie -:- Noth wrong? -:- Sun, May 07, 2000 at 02:53:39 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ SB -:- Noth wrong? Yeah.... -:- Sun, May 07, 2000 at 15:29:04 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ SB -:- Yeah.... -:- Mon, May 08, 2000 at 00:36:24 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- Hi SB, good to see you going strong -:- Mon, May 08, 2000 at 00:42:56 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- Yeah! and M acts stupid because for one thing.. -:- Sun, May 07, 2000 at 19:10:48 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Exceptions aside, education's better than not -:- Sun, May 07, 2000 at 03:05:23 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ What about life? -:- It teaches good! -:- Sun, May 07, 2000 at 15:39:08 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Katie -:- I agree, but... -:- Sun, May 07, 2000 at 03:13:46 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ James Flynn -:- I agree, but... -:- Sun, May 07, 2000 at 14:01:27 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- What kind of argument is that? -:- Sun, May 07, 2000 at 03:19:00 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Katie -:- What kind of argument is that? -:- Sun, May 07, 2000 at 03:27:21 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- lucky for you.. -:- Sun, May 07, 2000 at 02:35:30 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Selene -:- hey hey hey Katie -:- Sun, May 07, 2000 at 02:09:53 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Katie -:- hey hey hey Selene -:- Sun, May 07, 2000 at 02:14:54 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- hey hey hey Selene -:- Sun, May 07, 2000 at 02:20:28 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Katie -:- cubicle hell (ot) -:- Sun, May 07, 2000 at 02:39:37 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- Come on now, Katie -:- Sun, May 07, 2000 at 02:46:30 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Katie -:- Come on now, gerry -:- Sun, May 07, 2000 at 03:00:44 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Robyn -:- Come on now, gerry -:- Sun, May 07, 2000 at 22:11:16 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ YES: What a relief! -:- Come on now, look at my age!! -:- Mon, May 08, 2000 at 00:38:34 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ SB -:- Correct!! I just dumpped ...uan....LOL -:- Sun, May 07, 2000 at 19:00:48 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- Why? pray tell, Ms. K -:- Sun, May 07, 2000 at 03:10:14 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Katie -:- Why? pray tell, Ms. K -:- Sun, May 07, 2000 at 03:25:51 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Gerry -:- Why? pray tell, Ms. K -:- Sun, May 07, 2000 at 03:41:49 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Katie -:- Why? pray tell, Ms. K -:- Sun, May 07, 2000 at 03:51:54 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Katie -:- Taking people at face value -:- Sun, May 07, 2000 at 03:41:29 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ SB -:- Cut it out! -:- Sun, May 07, 2000 at 13:44:06 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ george chakaris -:- Taking face at people value -:- Sun, May 07, 2000 at 04:23:29 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Stonor -:- Let me guess George . . . -:- Sun, May 07, 2000 at 22:33:35 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- I don't think SB's that superficial, Katie -:- Sun, May 07, 2000 at 03:32:26 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- Shut up Heller, you asshole -:- Sun, May 07, 2000 at 03:53:05 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ SB -:- You posted all my names.... -:- Sun, May 07, 2000 at 13:11:00 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Runamok -:- Is there a 900 number to call -:- Sun, May 07, 2000 at 06:32:40 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ SB -:- Is there a 900 number to call -:- Sun, May 07, 2000 at 13:12:17 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Katie -:- SB is definitely NOT superficial... -:- Sun, May 07, 2000 at 03:44:50 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Well, let's ask her -:- Sun, May 07, 2000 at 03:59:30 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Helen -:- Don't hold your breath! -:- Sun, May 07, 2000 at 03:51:54 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Conçeçao -:- Canadians -:- Sun, May 07, 2000 at 08:14:26 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Robyn -:- Canadians -:- Sun, May 07, 2000 at 22:30:32 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Katie -:- I'm not! -:- Sun, May 07, 2000 at 03:54:08 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Helen -:- I'm not! -:- Sun, May 07, 2000 at 13:41:46 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Robyn -:- I'm not! -:- Sun, May 07, 2000 at 22:34:10 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ YOU'll be surprised... -:- SB tells you so... -:- Mon, May 08, 2000 at 01:58:39 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Here's what you can do about SB -:- Sun, May 07, 2000 at 03:14:16 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- And here's what you can do -:- Sun, May 07, 2000 at 03:21:40 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Ms. Initiator -:- And here's what you can do -:- Sun, May 07, 2000 at 03:45:11 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Katie -:- Hey, *I* answer you! -:- Sun, May 07, 2000 at 03:57:01 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- of course you count -:- Sun, May 07, 2000 at 03:59:57 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Katie -:- Thank you Selene (nt) -:- Sun, May 07, 2000 at 04:08:17 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ george chakaris -:- really curious -:- Sun, May 07, 2000 at 04:15:12 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ SB -:- Go to sleep! -:- Sun, May 07, 2000 at 13:18:26 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ SB -:- Correction.... PRECEDE... -:- Mon, May 08, 2000 at 00:41:58 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Hal -:- really curious -:- Sun, May 07, 2000 at 08:18:20 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- really curious -:- Sun, May 07, 2000 at 04:16:20 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ george chakaris -:- really curious -:- Sun, May 07, 2000 at 04:21:28 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- well *I* was talkin about the light technique -:- Sun, May 07, 2000 at 04:25:24 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ george chakaris -:- not really curious -:- Sun, May 07, 2000 at 04:42:50 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- they are all revealed here on the site anyway -:- Sun, May 07, 2000 at 04:45:33 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ G.C. -:- I dint already broke my vow.. -:- Sun, May 07, 2000 at 04:52:38 (GMT)

Jim -:- Bible finally gets the credit it deserves -:- Sun, May 07, 2000 at 00:17:45 (GMT)
__ Gilead -:- Bible finally gets the credit it deserves -:- Sun, May 07, 2000 at 02:36:25 (GMT)
__ raina -:- Re: This weeks TV guide-Jesus as Hottie. -:- Sun, May 07, 2000 at 00:45:10 (GMT)
__ __ Elaine B. -:- Buddy Hackett was first that came to mind -:- Sun, May 07, 2000 at 00:49:50 (GMT)
__ __ __ Helen -:- Buddy Hackett was first that came to mind -:- Sun, May 07, 2000 at 03:36:45 (GMT)
__ gerry -:- talk about boring...(nt) -:- Sun, May 07, 2000 at 00:44:03 (GMT)

Lotus Eater -:- Fruits -:- Sat, May 06, 2000 at 23:47:38 (GMT)
__ SB -:- your way to where? -:- Sun, May 07, 2000 at 15:32:32 (GMT)
__ __ gerry -:- hahahahahaha -:- Tues, May 09, 2000 at 00:37:03 (GMT)
__ __ __ Super Brat -:- hahahahahaha -:- Tues, May 09, 2000 at 13:34:19 (GMT)
__ Loaf -:- Thou shalt not take the Lord's name in vain -:- Sun, May 07, 2000 at 06:27:54 (GMT)
__ Robyn -:- Fruits -:- Sun, May 07, 2000 at 00:48:20 (GMT)
__ Lotus Eater -:- Hillside retreat -:- Sat, May 06, 2000 at 23:53:25 (GMT)
__ __ LIER!!! -:- Lotus eater is a lier!! nt -:- Sun, May 07, 2000 at 15:42:16 (GMT)
__ __ __ Hal -:- Lotus eater is a lier!! nt -:- Sun, May 07, 2000 at 20:09:50 (GMT)

Jim -:- Yeah? What about the '70s? -:- Sat, May 06, 2000 at 21:53:45 (GMT)
__ Helen -:- Yeah? What about the '70s? -:- Sat, May 06, 2000 at 22:13:17 (GMT)
__ __ Know It All -:- Yeah? What about the '70s? -:- Sat, May 06, 2000 at 22:22:17 (GMT)
__ __ __ Helen -:- Yeah? What about the '70s? -:- Sat, May 06, 2000 at 22:24:32 (GMT)

Gilead -:- WHY SO MANY ADOPT RIGHT WING? -:- Sat, May 06, 2000 at 21:03:42 (GMT)
__ Susan -:- I do not agree.... -:- Sun, May 07, 2000 at 02:35:57 (GMT)
__ __ Katie -:- I also agree with Susan -:- Sun, May 07, 2000 at 04:36:19 (GMT)
__ __ __ Susan -:- well said Katie -:- Sun, May 07, 2000 at 16:17:25 (GMT)
__ __ JW -:- I agree, Susan -:- Sun, May 07, 2000 at 02:47:48 (GMT)
__ __ __ LA-EX -:- I agree, Susan-Now wait a minute,Joe -:- Sun, May 07, 2000 at 04:45:33 (GMT)
__ __ __ Susan -:- well said Joe. Thanks! nt -:- Sun, May 07, 2000 at 04:04:29 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Gilead -:- are you Jewish? -:- Sun, May 07, 2000 at 04:35:39 (GMT)
__ __ __ Jim -:- It all depends on where the centre is -:- Sun, May 07, 2000 at 02:53:19 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Gilead -:- It all depends on where the centre is -:- Sun, May 07, 2000 at 03:44:32 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Susan -:- It all depends on where the centre is -:- Sun, May 07, 2000 at 03:55:40 (GMT)
__ Jim -:- Perfect analogy! -:- Sat, May 06, 2000 at 21:37:58 (GMT)
__ __ gerry -:- Ooooo, a stroke from the big guy... -:- Sat, May 06, 2000 at 21:48:32 (GMT)
__ Helen -:- WHY SO MANY ADOPT RIGHT WING? -:- Sat, May 06, 2000 at 21:37:49 (GMT)
__ __ His Holiness Gilead Ji -:- WHY SO MANY ADOPT RIGHT WING? -:- Sat, May 06, 2000 at 23:17:08 (GMT)
__ __ __ Susan -:- I would be SHOCKED if Hassan is a conservative -:- Sun, May 07, 2000 at 02:38:17 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Gilead Ji -:- I would be SHOCKED if Hassan is a conservative -:- Sun, May 07, 2000 at 03:04:12 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- You're so funny -:- Sun, May 07, 2000 at 03:11:15 (GMT)
__ __ __ Jim -:- What? They're NOT cults? -:- Sat, May 06, 2000 at 23:21:29 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ GILEAD JI -:- What? They're NOT cults? -:- Sun, May 07, 2000 at 00:00:57 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ JW -:- Cult -- a definition -:- Sun, May 07, 2000 at 02:39:13 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Danny Webster -:- Cult -- a definition -:- Sun, May 07, 2000 at 22:03:25 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Gilead -:- Cult -- a definition -:- Sun, May 07, 2000 at 03:00:18 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Aha! You hit the nail on the head there, Gilead! -:- Sun, May 07, 2000 at 03:08:30 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ His Holiness Gilead Ji -:- Aha! You hit the nail on the head there, Gilead! -:- Sun, May 07, 2000 at 03:13:42 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Uh oh! Warning: no sarcasm zone -:- Sun, May 07, 2000 at 03:16:01 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Gilead Ji -:- Uh oh! Warning: no sarcasm zone -:- Sun, May 07, 2000 at 03:20:26 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Uh oh! Warning: no sarcasm zone -:- Sun, May 07, 2000 at 03:24:46 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Susan -:- Cult -- a definition -:- Sun, May 07, 2000 at 02:42:53 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Gilead -:- Cult -- a definition -:- Sun, May 07, 2000 at 03:06:37 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ JW -:- Susan, see my post above.....nt -:- Sun, May 07, 2000 at 02:51:00 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- MOVE I remember that... -:- Sun, May 07, 2000 at 00:21:45 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Gilead -:- MOVE I remember that... -:- Sun, May 07, 2000 at 03:11:25 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- You use a word but can't define it? -:- Sun, May 07, 2000 at 00:08:05 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Gilead -:- You use a word but can't define it? -:- Sun, May 07, 2000 at 03:18:04 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Socrates at your service, sir -:- Sun, May 07, 2000 at 03:22:13 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Gilead Ji -:- Wouldn't that make you pompous, based on my logic? -:- Sun, May 07, 2000 at 03:32:51 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Okay, here's a guy who REALLY needs emoticoms! -:- Sun, May 07, 2000 at 03:38:00 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Gilead Ji the First -:- I was just trying to add humour to it all, Jim -:- Sun, May 07, 2000 at 03:47:58 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Stonor -:- You use a word but can't define it? -:- Sun, May 07, 2000 at 01:26:15 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Gilead -:- Thanks for your help in this attempted Socratic... -:- Sun, May 07, 2000 at 03:34:29 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- You mean 'thanks for trying to get me off the hook -:- Sun, May 07, 2000 at 03:39:23 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Gilead -:- You mean 'thanks for trying to get me off the hook -:- Sun, May 07, 2000 at 03:51:33 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- That's it exactly stonor. -:- Sun, May 07, 2000 at 01:54:42 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ My God Man -:- then DO SOMETHING about it.. -:- Sun, May 07, 2000 at 19:57:54 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ And you are one too -:- To care so much!! nt -:- Sun, May 07, 2000 at 15:44:23 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Is that the best you can do, Stonor? -:- Sun, May 07, 2000 at 01:44:14 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Gilead Ji -:- Is that the best you can do, Stonor? -:- Sun, May 07, 2000 at 03:27:00 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ cq -:- 'even in psychology' ??? ... nudge nudge -:- Mon, May 08, 2000 at 19:22:18 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Is that the best you can do, Stonor? -:- Sun, May 07, 2000 at 03:35:40 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Gilead -:- Jimmy, I love that Doctor Al! -:- Mon, May 08, 2000 at 02:02:21 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Stonor -:- Can't you EVER do any better Jim? -:- Sun, May 07, 2000 at 02:08:03 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Susan -:- Read Hassan's book -:- Sun, May 07, 2000 at 02:41:22 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Stonor -:- Read Chomsky ;-p, Buckminster Fuller, William I... -:- Sun, May 07, 2000 at 03:58:31 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Gilead -:- Read Hassan's book -:- Sun, May 07, 2000 at 03:40:49 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Susan -:- Read Hassan's book -:- Sun, May 07, 2000 at 04:02:58 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Gilead -:- Read Hassan's book -:- Sun, May 07, 2000 at 04:17:56 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Gilead Ji -:- Susan, Where Are You? -:- Sun, May 07, 2000 at 03:53:11 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Susan -:- Susan, Where Are You? -:- Sun, May 07, 2000 at 03:57:52 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Gilead -:- Susan, What Kind of Pompous Arrogance Is That? -:- Sun, May 07, 2000 at 04:10:32 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Susan -:- Pot calling the kettle black! -:- Sun, May 07, 2000 at 04:19:32 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Gilead -:- Goodbye Susan, but then, you did get back with me. -:- Sun, May 07, 2000 at 04:30:09 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ The expert witness -:- Definitions of the word 'cult' -:- Sun, May 07, 2000 at 07:03:19 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Gilead -:- Definitions of the word 'cult' -:- Mon, May 08, 2000 at 02:08:10 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Stonor -:- Is there a solution to your conclusion? -:- Sun, May 07, 2000 at 22:06:12 (GMT)


Date: Sun, May 07, 2000 at 04:07:05 (GMT)
From: Gilead
Email: IDOL-BREAKER
To: Everyone
Subject: ILLEGAL DEPROGRAMMING --THE EXPERTS
Message:
I know Hassan reads this forum, as he's left comments before. Is it true that he was one of the culprits of the illegal deprogramming activities, that is, illegally kidnapping persons away from groups he didn't agree with, and then using techniques of force to 'make' the victim change their mind on beliefs. I've read the the POW's went through this sort of hell.
Also, what would Hassan say about Jesus, Muhammad, Buddha, Krishna, and other founders of world religions, when they started out. Wouldn't they be cults? Would he have forcefully taken some of the apostles from Jesus, and did his illegal deprogramming on them? I tend to agree with the Rabbi in the Christian Book of Acts, who, when asked about using force on the Christians, stating that if the movement were false, they would expose themselves. Indeed, many fakes have been cult leaders, and their movements never grew into a world religion. In recent history, consider Jimmy Swaggart and Jim Bakker.
Also, if Hassan is a fellow Arab American, does he ever write on the Arab bashing and demonization of Islam, as is done by the media? Does he care about the Palestinians who have forcefully been taken out of their own land, by colonialist Zionists from Europe? Does he ever say anything about the use of starvation as a weapon against the masses of Iraqi people, with the economic sanctions?
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Date: Sun, May 07, 2000 at 04:24:21 (GMT)
From: Gilead
Email: None
To: Susan
Subject: please educate me on people who want deprogramming
Message:
Addendum:
You mentioned that Hassan only believes in deprogramming with voluntary subjects. How would they be voluntary, believing in their own beliefs, and then want to be deprogrammed? Educate me on this.
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Date: Sun, May 07, 2000 at 04:35:13 (GMT)
From: Mommy Peeping Turtle Head
Email: None
To: Gilead
Subject: Please help my boy! (nt)
Message:
soupie
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Date: Sun, May 07, 2000 at 04:22:38 (GMT)
From: Peeping Turtle Head
Email: None
To: Gilead
Subject: Budding Terrorist?
Message:
who are you talking 2?
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Date: Sun, May 07, 2000 at 04:26:54 (GMT)
From: Gilead
Email: None
To: Peeping Turtle Head
Subject: What does that mean?
Message:
I don't know what 2 means, in your question. I do know that Zionists, who commit terrorism routinely, (consider the innocent civilians in Lebanon, etc.) have the back up of the media, to label Muslims and Arabs as terrorists, either directly or indirectly. The indirect method can be subtle, defaming Arabs with stereotypes, etc.
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Date: Sun, May 07, 2000 at 04:15:22 (GMT)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: Gilead
Subject: you are nuts he's Jewish you fool!
Message:
I have never seen anyone be wrong about more facts in one evening on this forum ever.

I

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Date: Sun, May 07, 2000 at 13:06:44 (GMT)
From: Elaine B
Email: None
To: Susan
Subject: Susan way off topic (OT)
Message:
I did post you - in inactive now.
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Date: Tues, May 09, 2000 at 15:06:01 (GMT)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: Elaine B
Subject: Hi to Elaine (ot)
Message:
I read your post right before it went inactive. and I wrote you a long and friendly response, and then it went inactive! So it is not there. It was bad timing.

I do think you are interesting and I was so impressed that someone who calls themselves a premie could speak up and criticize Rawat. I was really impressed.

Really, you prove that the 'cult' could be taken out of the organization if he were brave enough. If all premies could ask of him what you did, and speak to him as a human who has an obligation to be honest and ethical, and he speak to them back, well, it wouldn't really be a cult anymore.

Thanks for being here.

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Date: Tues, May 09, 2000 at 15:12:19 (GMT)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: Elaine
Subject: more(ot)
Message:
Dear Elaine,

Also, you seem like someone who would have the courage to face the Jagdeo thing head on. Are you aware of the efforts that have gone on here at the site to try to find out if anything was ever done about him? Are you aware of the problem? We still have no evidence anything has ever been done to really stop him. No one in Elan Vital has ever given us any reason to beleive he is not still molesting children.

Right now I do not see any way to get any answers on the issue, but the more people who care about this and are not afraid to deal with the truth the better.

Susan

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Date: Tues, May 09, 2000 at 16:42:43 (GMT)
From: Elaine
Email: None
To: Susan
Subject: Jagdeo
Message:
You bet I have followed a bit of the Jagdeo thing. Sorry, but I think he should be rotting in prison. The fucker.

I don't get all mellow about child molesters.

I, of course, understand the protective,forgiving instincts of a parent (or Guru). I can see it all now - Get him out of the country!!!! Understand doesn't mean condone.

There was a premie - I knew him --that was a child diddler - ('that', apparently, was all he did.) The sickness was incredible. He told me in the sweetest gentlest way how he loved the children so much - and he (TRULY-TRULY) felt they WANTED him to touch them and be special for him. He was deluded enough to think they understood and got aroused be his attention. Well, I found out about all this afterwards. I guess in the child care area of the '79 Kissimee or a later one in the field he did something with a friend's little girl 7-9 yr old. You know what the premie did - the father----he yelled at him and told him to get the fuck out of child care and never come back.

No police,no charges. Just him yelling and the disgrace of the community knowing now - should have been enough. That was the consciousness back then. Probably still is in some church groups.

We also knew there was an exhibitionist,peeping Tom in the premie house. The police tracked him back to the house and talked later to the 'house father'. Protection up the wasu. sp?

It is definitely a circling of the wagons in groups of this nature.
Elaine

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Date: Tues, May 09, 2000 at 17:46:18 (GMT)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: Elaine
Subject: more to Elaine (ot)
Message:
Dear Elaine,

You are so right. DLM/EV is far from alone in that they chose/choose to ignore and move the problem rather than deal with it. As I am sure you would agree, having so much company in this cowardly and ugly response does not in any way excuse it. And, he may well be still molesting kids wherever they are hiding him.

Regarding pedophiles loving their victims and feeling the molestation is welcomed, it is very common. I think that this aspect must be one of the hardest for a victim to overcome. His or her heart would know that the perpetrator might 'love' them, his or her heart would also know the perpetrator was using them, hurting, wounding and betraying a very sacred trust. I think that is one of the worst ways the victims of child abuse are injured. They are set up at a very young age to be so confused about what love is, and trust is.

If you ever get the chance there was a very good article in Sports Illustrated. If I can find the text I might post it for you. It really explained the dynamics of this type of abuser extremely well. It was about pedophiles as coaches, but it was entirely applicable to priests and mahatmas. I think though, spiritual leaders who abuse that trust to perpetrate abuse are among the worst. For if there is a God, they forever link the abuse to the childs spirituality, and hurt that childs ability to have a relationship with God, forever.

A terrible crime. And a terrible thing to cover up, deny and hide.

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Date: Tues, May 09, 2000 at 19:41:53 (GMT)
From: Elaine
Email: None
To: Susan
Subject: Susan,pedophiles
Message:
Susan, I put this down here thinking it will go inactive soon.
I don't want this at the top of the page. I am an incest survivor. I'm sure that led to my early rapes.
Really if there is anything that I could possibly help with in this Jagdeo issue. Just let me know.
Elaine

Yes, article is a familiar one to me - didn't I see something on a 20/20, too.
Thank you.

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Date: Tues, May 09, 2000 at 19:50:13 (GMT)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: Elaine
Subject: Susan,pedophiles
Message:
I am sorry that you have had to experience this personally. It is truly tragic that this is so common.

I think you are very brave to speak out. Telling the truth is a big part of healing.

Thank you, and if there ever is anything you can think of, or I think of, let's do it. I think that taking action to positively effect change is also very healing and empowering.

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Date: Wed, May 10, 2000 at 00:30:57 (GMT)
From: Elaine
Email: None
To: Susan/Stonor
Subject: Already read all - going inactive (nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Tues, May 09, 2000 at 20:47:25 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: Susan and Elaine
Subject: It's a 'guy' thing, the under the carpet.
Message:
It's a 'guy' thing, this generalized sweeping it under the under the carpet stuff with regards to predatory behaviour towards the more vulnerable who, in most cultures, are usually women and children. That was part of the pain of five years of experiencing one of those difficult to define crimes currently being written up as harassment/stalking, etc. Most just laugh it off and blame the victim in some way. There is more, but I just wanted to say that within these organizations is not the only place this happens - it's in just about every culture.

And yes, it has been beginning to change, but it hasn't changed that much yet.

Stonor

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Date: Sun, May 07, 2000 at 04:21:27 (GMT)
From: Gilead
Email: None
To: Susan
Subject: what does he think of Zionist ideology?
Message:
That's interesting that he has the Arabic name of Hassan. But then, Arabic is the language from which Hebrew is derived. You're labelling me a fool, in an all or none manner, doesn't make a case for your being rational, Susan.
I wonder what he thinks of the cultic ideology of Zionism?
The General Assembly of the United Nations has stated that Zionism and Apartheid are the same ideologies of racism. I think that is partially why President Mandella awarded Bro. Qathafi with the highest human rights award from his country of South Africa, during his visit to Tripoli, Libya.
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Date: Tues, May 09, 2000 at 10:35:52 (GMT)
From: Jethro
Email: None
To: Gilead
Subject: what does he think of Zionist ideology?(OT)
Message:
'The General Assembly of the United Nations has stated that Zionism and Apartheid are the same ideologies of racism'

For what it's worth the above was rescinded.

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Date: Sun, May 07, 2000 at 16:11:01 (GMT)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: Gilead
Subject: I do not ususally call people fools
Message:
this is why I called you one. You make incredible leaps in logic.

1. His name is Hassan....he must be Jewish
2. He posts here....I guess it is possible, but two people who read this a lot, myself and Jim, never have seen a post from him here, and I would like you to search the archives for these alleged posts
3. Most ex's are right wing....no most are liberals, the vast majority are liberal
4. We follow Steve Hassan....I just read his book. I think he is a smart man. That is about it. I would bet many people who post here don't really know who Steve Hassan is.
5. Hassan forcibly deprograms people...no he said in his book he beleives this is wrong.

And no, I am not Jewish. I just can't stand it when people play so fast and loose with the facts. I find the idea that someone like you, who seems to not have a modicum of embarrassment that he made all these easily disproved statements, thinks that he 'got me thinking' ludicrous. All you did is get someone who is normally nice to everyone, myself, to start calling you names,like fool, because you really won't listen.

My experience is that there is no point in carrying on a discussion with a person who is this far off the deep end with the facts.

And that is why I ended the discussion. I do not expect you will be able to appreciate what I am saying.

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Date: Tues, May 09, 2000 at 04:14:49 (GMT)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: Susan
Subject: ooops
Message:
I knew when I called Gill Head a fool I was bound to screw up in the post. I do still think that there may be such a thing as instant karma etc...

Gill did not say Hassan was Jewish. He assumed he was Arabic, and I replied 'he's Jewish you fool'

Sorry Gill. I was right that you made an assumption but mispoke about what it was you assumed.

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Date: Mon, May 08, 2000 at 01:41:47 (GMT)
From: Gilead
Email: None
To: Susan
Subject: I do not ususally call people fools
Message:
Susan, I didn't say the guy was Jewish, you did. I am an Arab American, and noticed that he had an ARAB surname (not Jewish traditionally, except by Arabs who are Jewish, a very small percentage indeed!). I respect Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. However, I don't support the racist ideology of zionism.

I think your problem is that you have not heard anything from a different perspective, outside of Western opinion. I used the term 'Idol Breaker' on recent post, because thats what I intend to do. The New World Order's medias certainly cannot be relied upon (I'm sure you probably disagree). If you're looking for somebody that believes what they read in the newspapers, then you are correct. From that frame of reference, if you consider such as factual, then I'm not that kind of 'factual' person.

You sound too mainstream, status quo oriented, in terms of considering to look at things any differently from what you've read in newspapers, or been taught in college.

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Date: Mon, May 08, 2000 at 22:49:27 (GMT)
From: Jethro
Email: None
To: Gilead
Subject: Re: Arab -Jews(OT)
Message:
'...not Jewish traditionally, except by Arabs who are Jewish, a very small percentage indeed!). '

That is true. The percentage is very small NOW. There were more than 1000,000 Jews living in Arab countries,ther majority of which were forced out of their homes when Israel was established.

The majority of Jews from Arab countries did not even hear of the word 'Zionist'. They saw the establishment of Israel as a prohetic fulfillment.(The Yemenite Jews, for example, were not allowed to build houses higher than Muslims).

I suppose Israel should have kept them all in camps like the great Arab nations did to their brothers!

Don't come back and tell me that I am giving you is Zionist propaganda. I have worked with people getting Jews(and non-Jews) out from Arab lands for many years, and have spoken with these people first-hand.

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Date: Sun, May 07, 2000 at 18:28:13 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Susan
Subject: I love it when you girls get angry!
Message:
There is nothing quite so good as watching otherwise genteel women lost it in righteous anger. I'd high-five you, Susan, (if I can be so bold as to call you by your first name), but I'm just a guy. You the man, Stan!
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Date: Sun, May 07, 2000 at 19:48:56 (GMT)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: thanks Jim you reminded me of #6 that you are Amer
Message:
American. I think it was typical middle American.

He wrote that too with this aura of absolute certainty. That you were American, and that you had never been exposed to how the lower classes live. That one sent me through the roof.

Gotta hand it to him though, very few people get my goat here, but this Gill Head guy might as well be dragging his findernails over a chalkboard in how I respond. I do not tolerate fools gladly.

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Date: Sun, May 07, 2000 at 19:54:15 (GMT)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: Susan
Subject: And....
Message:
he wrote it when you had spelled what we genuine Americans spell as Center...with your wierd spelling 'centre' ....which, if a person is the least bit insightful, he would notice.

But no....

in response to your centre post ( you gotta learn to spell Jim ) he attacks you for being a typical American.

Aaaaaahhhhh!!!!

Also, my experience is he will show himself to be totally immune ot sarcasm and concrete. It is like a syndrome.

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Date: Mon, May 08, 2000 at 01:44:50 (GMT)
From: Gilead
Email: None
To: Susan
Subject: And....
Message:
Susan, did you ever see that movie 'Under Siege', you remind me of the lady that was in the birthday cake.
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Date: Sun, May 07, 2000 at 14:41:02 (GMT)
From: Curly
Email: None
To: Gilead
Subject: what does he think of Zionist ideology?
Message:
Gilead:
Arabic is derived from Hebrew, not the other way around.

One question: Do you believe in the plans stated in 'The Protocols of the Elders of Zion'?

If so, do you think Hitler was only trying to save the save the world from jewish/iluminaty/whatever domination? The protocols was one of the building blocks to his antisemitic beliefs.

What about the masons?
Being a mason myself (though inactive for years), I'm curious to know what the ol' brotherhood 'been up to.

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Date: Mon, May 08, 2000 at 01:54:01 (GMT)
From: Gilead
Email: None
To: Curly
Subject: what does he think of Zionist ideology?
Message:
Curly,

Sounds like you've been listening to certain nationalist Rabbis. Prophet Abraham lived in the desert, speaking the original Semitic language, which is still maintained to this day by the Arab Nation. The Israelites, on the otherhand, suffered colonial aggression and were sent throughout the world, and ended up getting Helenized, borrowing from all the nations, in their languages. Thus, Hebrew, due to such exposure and integration from all these languages, is not as original as the Arabic. You will recall from the Torah that Ishmael (peace be upon him!) was a Prophet, and was promised to play a significant part of blessing humanity (despite the obvious sibling rivalry bias of the editors of the Torah, from the original Books of Moses, pbuh). In fact, I wonder if you knew that Ibrahim actually came from what is now known as Iraq!

I realize most of the ex premies will either be Christian sympathizers to Israel (this can become a cult, too) or Jews. I'm not gonna win by democratic vote, and I'm sure may get attacked by the likes of Susan and Jim. By the way, Susan reminds of that lady in the birthday cake, on the movie 'Under Siege.' She told Steve Seagall that she doesn't date musicians and doesn't like guns, in a style that for some reason sounds like Susan.

I don't think that book you mentioned on the Elders is authentic. As far as the masons are concerned, Noble Drew Ali, of the Moorish Science Temple of America, initially was a mason of the Egyptian Ancient Shrine. I believe in Noble Drew Ali and Moorish Science, so to that extend, have some respect for the masons (though I'm not one).

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Date: Sun, May 07, 2000 at 01:51:59 (GMT)
From: george chakaris
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: curious
Message:
why did all you 'ex's' get involved with this anyway?
what could you have been thinking?
and why are you still thinking it?
for me...
if it comes from the heart and goes to the heart
well that's enuf for me...
why do you continue to involve yourselves with
some thing which doesn't fulfill you?
why not just move on and realise your mistake
and let bygones be bye johns?
All we are saying... is give peace a 'fair' chance
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Date: Sun, May 07, 2000 at 13:49:18 (GMT)
From: James Flynn
Email: not given
To: george chakaris
Subject: curious
Message:
The reason people just don't 'move on' is they want this information to availible to aspirants and active premies who know that there is somthing wrong but just can't put their finger on it.
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Date: Sun, May 07, 2000 at 13:23:17 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: fitzroy@liverpool.ac.uk
To: george chakaris
Subject: And why should you care?
Message:
The charlatan is still in business so I come here to warn others off. It is the least I can do having brought half a dozen new aspirants to their first satsang by passing on the bullshit I had swallowed without question. Also it's FUN to trash the fake master who once told me 'surrender the reins of my life' to him. I mean, hell, I'm even starting to laugh right now with the sheer fucking absurdity of it... 'Oh My Maharaji, I am weak and ignorant, but you are wise and all-knowing... The superior power in person' hahahahahahaha!!!! (and vomit!)
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Date: Sun, May 07, 2000 at 03:15:09 (GMT)
From: Gregg
Email: binduesque@yahoo.com
To: george chakaris
Subject: curious
Message:
Why did we get invoved with Knowledge? Same reason you did.

Why are we here? Because we have come to understand that GMJ's idea of what life is about is simplistic, at best.

Some of us here no longer believe in spirit/God. But those of us who do are a little emarrassed at having fallen for Maharaji, the Con. I've read HUNDREDS of guru's writings. Literally. But I haven't read ONE as vacuous, as stupid as Maharaji's. Have you read any other 'master's' writings? And how do they compare?

Oh, the words don't matter. Good answer. Sayonara.

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Date: Sun, May 07, 2000 at 02:18:14 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: george chakaris
Subject: curious
Message:
Well george it would be fine to 'let bygones be bygones.' But there's this little problem with continuing propagation of this harmful and destructive cult. That's my problem with it and that's why I'm here.
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Date: Sun, May 07, 2000 at 01:53:40 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: george chakaris
Subject: Education level? (nt)
Message:
gg
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Date: Sun, May 07, 2000 at 01:57:31 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Education level doesn't mean shit!!
Message:
It just means you had family money to bail you out and help you go to school after you
escaped the cult after being involved for all of your 20's.
OR you are still struggling in you 40's in school (and MORE power to any of you doing this!!)
Otherwise, you got into computing.. the only career where education didn't matter.
hmmpphh...
education level my ass.
overrated.

selene, working on helping faculty process online grading over the weekend...... too many hours online
grrrrrrrrrrrrrr

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Date: Sun, May 07, 2000 at 12:44:54 (GMT)
From: Elaine B.
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: Education level doesn't mean shit!!
Message:
I have a master's. And formal education doesn't mean shit.
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Date: Tues, May 09, 2000 at 14:37:36 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: Elaine B.
Subject: Maharaji's, u mean? nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Sun, May 07, 2000 at 02:04:55 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: Education level doesn't mean shit!!
Message:
Hi Selene -
I agree with the above, but I also know lots of people with Master's and Ph.D degrees who cannot write worth a damn (I have to review their papers). So writing style is NOT a clue to education level...once you get out of junior high, and educational level does not have much to do with native intelligence (in other words, there are lots of stupid Ph. D's)

How's it going, girl? I got the book (thanks so much!) and read it all in one sitting. Need to read it again, obviously (I read way too fast), but my favorite story was about the face-slashing - I could relate. I like the woman's writing style.

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Date: Sun, May 07, 2000 at 02:50:35 (GMT)
From: Ajax
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: Dating Satan/Face Slashing
Message:
Which book are you talking about? Sounds interesting...

Tx
A

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Date: Sun, May 07, 2000 at 02:55:27 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Ajax
Subject: Dating Satan/Face Slashing
Message:
My Date with Satan by Stacy Richter.

Recommended by Selene!

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Date: Sun, May 07, 2000 at 03:03:38 (GMT)
From: Ajax
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: Dating Satan/Face Slashing
Message:
I've had a few of those myself. I'll check it out. Thanks.
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Date: Sun, May 07, 2000 at 03:06:17 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Ajax
Subject: Dating Satan
Message:
Actually, the title story is about a woman who meets a guy who posts as 'Satan' on the Internet who turns out to be very UN-Satanic and boring. Or at least that is my interpretation. (Her user name is Pippi Longstocking.) Worth reading.
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Date: Sun, May 07, 2000 at 03:11:00 (GMT)
From: Will Do....Thanx (nt)
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: Dating Satan
Message:
n
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Date: Sun, May 07, 2000 at 02:30:31 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: Naw, you're noth wrong
Message:
My inital question was faceitious as it overstated the presumption that one learns to think better with a decent education. I was teasing George who, in my opinion, isn't anywhere near curious enough.

But you guys are serious and in that you're wrong. Education can and usually does do a lot to help people think better. A decent education anyway.

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Date: Sun, May 07, 2000 at 02:53:39 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Noth wrong?
Message:
Jim,
Hey, I work at a university and so does Selene, so we witness the products of 'education' daily. The key word in your post is 'a decent education'. I am assuming that you mean a well-rounded, liberal arts education with GOOD teachers (not just some poor harassed grad student trying to make their stipend). I have taken a lot of classes (and in fact, I credit one of them for making me think enough to see that leaving Maharaji was the right thing), but I didn't have to think all that much in very many of them - at least not in the way you're implying.

Some of the most intelligent, thoughtful, and well-spoken people I know are self-educated. I think motivation and WANTING to learn can be more important than any actual degree, especially now that degrees are so career-motivated. Also, as Selene pointed out, many people didn't have the luxury of being able to get a college education when they were younger. I was fortunate enough to be able to go to college on government grants before Reagan cut them back. Plus I didn't have kids to take care of and/or support.

I ALWAYS encourage people to go to college IF they can. But I understand that some people can not, for various reasons (e.g. my brother and sister), and that doesn't make them any less intelligent.

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Date: Sun, May 07, 2000 at 15:29:04 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: Noth wrong? Yeah....
Message:
I know a doctor who is a very bad listener!! He cuts you in the middle of your sentences to hook his!! I agree: Education doesn't mean degrees... Education is a matter of curiosity and asking yourself the right questions... To learn to think logically...
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Date: Mon, May 08, 2000 at 00:36:24 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: Yeah....
Message:
....is much more than what I wrote!! Thanks...

It was mostly an inside joke...but first have to be understood...

Hi Selene!! :)

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Date: Mon, May 08, 2000 at 00:42:56 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: SB
Subject: Hi SB, good to see you going strong
Message:
Hi SB! It's been a while. Just back from packing up my old
office :( :( BIG bummer. You know how us types don't react
well to bad changes. And,of course I get em all at once.
It sounds like, overall you have had some good ones coming your way. I'm very happy for you. I know you have paid your dues.
Love, Selene
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Date: Sun, May 07, 2000 at 19:10:48 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: SB
Subject: Yeah! and M acts stupid because for one thing..
Message:
He was always pampered and taught to think he could do no wrong.
So why would he NOT think he vapid empty speeches are great works? And why would he have to modify his behavior in any way?

I hate to say it but I think intelligence has a lot to do with genetics and is either there with birth or not. And nurtured by nutrition, early childhood experiences to some degree. And life.
And Jim who is indirectly here in this thread, of course in general higher ed can nurture better thinking. It's why I choose to stay at the university as long as I have to live in this stupid city, it's the only oasis here!

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Date: Sun, May 07, 2000 at 03:05:23 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: Exceptions aside, education's better than not
Message:
It's a big world out there and yes, there are lots of people who don't learn much in college and definitely lots who learn lots out of college. But tell me, where else are you going to write essays and exams or simply offer opinions in class and have them scrutinized for illogic etc. like in school? Nowhere I'm aware of.
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Date: Sun, May 07, 2000 at 15:39:08 (GMT)
From: What about life?
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: It teaches good!
Message:
When one gets tired of making a fool of him/herself, he/she changes...
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Date: Sun, May 07, 2000 at 03:13:46 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: I agree, but...
Message:
Don't get me wrong, Jim - I am definitely into education (especially the kind where you have to write essays, etc. - this doesn't happen that often when there are 500 people in the class, as in many large universities!) I am really encouraging my nephews and niece (especially my niece) to go to college. So are their mom and dad, who didn't get the opportunity.

BUT, there are people on this forum who did not get the chance to go to college specifically because of their involvement with Maharaji. Maharaji himself did discourage it for a long time, as you know, until he figured out that education usually equals more income. There was also the push to either live in the ashram or to get married and have kids, as you also know. What I am saying is that educational level has very little to do with intelligence, and in many (although not all) cases, the talent for critical thinking.

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Date: Sun, May 07, 2000 at 14:01:27 (GMT)
From: James Flynn
Email: sharkdc
To: Katie
Subject: I agree, but...
Message:
If I am not mistaken Maharaj Ji never got past 8th grade because he dropped out of school to spread the' knowledge of God' though-out the world.
I think his lack of eduaction is exspecially evident in his very boring and unimaginative discourse.
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Date: Sun, May 07, 2000 at 03:19:00 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: What kind of argument is that?
Message:
We agree, then, that, all else equal, education's better than not. Do we agree on that? It more or less sounds as if we do.

Then you mention that lots of people here didn't / couldn't / woudln't partake. So therefore we should minimize its benefits so no one feels bad? Is that what you're saying? Sounds like it.

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Date: Sun, May 07, 2000 at 03:27:21 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: What kind of argument is that?
Message:
For god's sake, Jim, I am saying that we should not be snobby about people based on their level of education. Jesus! I guess I was way too subtle. (And by the way, I KNOW that you've done this!)
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Date: Sun, May 07, 2000 at 02:35:30 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: lucky for you..
Message:
I've just been cooked dinner
or I might say
fuck you heller you ... nah just kidding
never answer directly me in public.... interesting.
gotta go eat dinner.
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Date: Sun, May 07, 2000 at 02:09:53 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: hey hey hey Katie
Message:
I have a confession. I wanted to get that book to you so bad in time for your b'day that I haven't read it all. Started with
'My Date With Satan' and kinda read backwards and forwards. Loved everything but didn't get the face slash or the one Rob alluded to about the island full of girlfriends. I plan to buy it again and keep it for me. I do that all the time with books. Not exactly ecologically correct. OR PC. not me. oh wellllllllll....
hee hee heee (in place of Mike)
greetings from the ArIzOna factor all
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Date: Sun, May 07, 2000 at 02:14:54 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: hey hey hey Selene
Message:
The 'Island of Boyfriends' was OK, but I really liked the face-slashing one. Also liked the one about the Swedish heavy metal band - really funny, especially if you are Swedish. And of course 'Date with Satan' - the one you recommended (I KNOW why you liked it - snicker!).

Yeah, you should buy another copy - didn't you know it's PC to buy hardcovers of emerging authors?!. (EVERYTHING is PC - it's all relative to who is doing the defining!)

Love and thanks -
Katie

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Date: Sun, May 07, 2000 at 02:20:28 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: hey hey hey Selene
Message:
EVERYTHING is PC - it's all relative to who is doing the defining!

Too too funny. I love you!
I missed the Swedish metal band too! damned.
OK tomorrow in additon to the last, painful 'FINAL CUT' from my beautiful private office to cubie hell...... bringing my plants home etc.. oh god..........
in addition I'm gonna buy the book, (actually the last one was a gift to me so I am even ok in that arena)

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Date: Sun, May 07, 2000 at 02:39:37 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: cubicle hell (ot)
Message:
(I almost wrote 'cubical hell', which is also apt, don'tcha think?)

Anyway, some solutions for cubicle hell, although none really works that well:
- VERY tall walls on cubicle partitions
- one of those screens for your computer monitor where you have to be looking straight at it to read it (this helps a LOT!)
- personal stuff: pictures, books, etc. - anything that reminds you who you are. I have a lot of rocks & some pictures of the ocean.
- building some kind of wall around the sides of your desk - I use soil samples (not kidding!)
- growing up in a very loud and slightly obnoxious family where you have to learn to block out external stimuli (works for me)
- being the senior person in your office and so being allowed to smoke cigarettes (yeah, I know - doesn't work in universities and other public buildings, although it used to be great!)
- loud playing of constant Grateful Dead 'space jams' on your computer CD player (snicker!)
- being so obnoxious that no one can stand to be around you
- eating a lot of garlic (this worked for one guy I know)
- Fiery Wall of Protection powder (send me some!!)

Our building at work is so crowded that the only people who get their own offices are tenure-track professors. So I sympathize, and I hope it works out all right.

Love,
Katie

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Date: Sun, May 07, 2000 at 02:46:30 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: Come on now, Katie
Message:
Our building at work is so crowded that the only people who get their own offices are tenure-track professors. So I sympathize, and I hope it works out all right.

You know we can't afford anything like more office space for you acedemic types...We need the money for more F22's to counter the F16's we sell to our 'enemies'

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Date: Sun, May 07, 2000 at 03:00:44 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Come on now, gerry
Message:
Off-putting subject line, and I think you know why! Also, Gerry, I've been avoiding you and I think you know why, too.

My building is so old that we have gargoyles and other medieval decorations all over it. I kinda like it, but we don't have A/C, enough secretaries, etc. Agronomy is not a high-ticket or high tech field (except for genetic engineering, which gets the bucks), and so it's not a priority in university funding, even at a supposed 'land-grant' university.

P.S. SB is not gonna forgive you unless you crawl on hands and knees for a few weeks with constant apologies. When she gets mad, she STAYS mad :).

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Date: Sun, May 07, 2000 at 22:11:16 (GMT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: Come on now, gerry
Message:
Hi Katie,
This is true, the only reason I have an air conditioner in my office is because of the computer and we can't sweat on the mylar maps! Talk about self worth! :) Not that you were. :)

'When she gets mad, she STAYS mad :).'
Too Funny!!! :)

Hey Super Brat, I love this :), I say you are 'spicey' :)! Sounds like you are happy about dumping you know who :).
Love,
Robyn

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Date: Mon, May 08, 2000 at 00:38:34 (GMT)
From: YES: What a relief!
Email: None
To: Robyn
Subject: Come on now, look at my age!!
Message:
hahahahaha....to infinitum....

...like a box of chocolates!!......

:)

S

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Date: Sun, May 07, 2000 at 19:00:48 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: Correct!! I just dumpped ...uan....LOL
Message:
Believe or not! he got me mad!!! Yes...I see you know some of me...

ROFL

I'm free again!.... Buaaaaa.....Oh no, what have I done....

Self Boycot again...

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Date: Sun, May 07, 2000 at 03:10:14 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: Why? pray tell, Ms. K
Message:
Seems like I owe everybody an apology these days. Except Heller. He can stay dissed.

So here goes: SO SOLLY, Prease Folgive me my (numerous) offenses. (I can talk that way since I'm half Korean, ha, ha.) But seriously we were good friends at one point. I hope we can be in the future.

I don't know what to do about SB. Does she like flowers?

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Date: Sun, May 07, 2000 at 03:25:51 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Why? pray tell, Ms. K
Message:
Gerry -
After the last interaction we had (on Anything Goes), I felt very burned by you. I KNOW you can be a good person, and I know that you are married to a wonderful person who I like very much, and who obviously sees your good points, but you really made me feel bad. Basically, I have a hard time dealing with being flamed by people who I have been friendly with (and have been open with) in e-mail, and so forth - it hurts a lot. I would like to be friends with you, but I don't want you to turn on me in public again - it is hard, and hard to recover from. If you have a problem with something I've done in the future, I wish you would e-mail me first, and talk to me about it. I do realize that you were involved with the 'Terrible Trio' at the time, and I KNOW what's been said about me and Brian in the 'trio', but the things you said about me still made me feel awful. I've talked to Roger about it and we are OK, but I still feel bad about the whole thing.

About SB - I would suggest lots and LOTS of flowers - preferably exotic and expensive. Maybe tons of e-mail apologies, but they'd have to be extremely heartfelt and sincere. Flowers might be better - also perfume and gift certificates to 'old-hippie' stores and nail salons . Also, you might want to get in good with my cat, Henry, since she really likes him ever since he barfed on M's lotus feet (let's see Sparky top THAT!).

Take care - and say hi to Patty -
Katie

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Date: Sun, May 07, 2000 at 03:41:49 (GMT)
From: Gerry
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: Why? pray tell, Ms. K
Message:
Well, to keep it all in prospective, I flamed you ONCE and said one negative thing about you. (Christ I hope I'm accurate about this.) I'm not trying to minimize your pain and I sincerely apologize for that, and I hope time will heal the wound.

But Katie, isn't this going a little too far:

If you have a problem with something I've done in the future, I wish you would e-mail me first, and talk to me about it.

I'm sorry, but I'm not Nostrodamus. Not even Sollog or Jean Dixon. I just can't see that clearly into the future... :-0

(I was gonna put a smiley face emoticon but I had orders from the general to wipe that 'stupid smile' off my face.)

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Date: Sun, May 07, 2000 at 03:51:54 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Gerry
Subject: Why? pray tell, Ms. K
Message:
No, Gerry, you said it OVER and OVER again in successive posts, until I started crying. I have since made a rule not to post when I am crying! Then David said I revealed my vulnerability too much and thus encouraged people to attack me. (I did get helpful counseling from Padre Miquelito on this issue - I felt like an idiot until he helped me.) If you recall, you were defending Carol, who is someone I really DO like, by the way - although I do not agree with her thoughts about Maharaji.

As far as being Nostradamus or Jeanne Dixon (snicker - wasn't she the greatest!) - isn't it ALMOST as easy to e-mail someone as to post to them?

Take care -
Katie

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Date: Sun, May 07, 2000 at 03:41:29 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Gerry
Subject: Taking people at face value
Message:
This is a further lecture on what happened between you and SB. I have always tried to take people on the forum at face value until proven otherwise. This is NOT because I'm a great person - it's just easier, and it is my nature. If I think someone is a fake, I just don't post to them, unless it becomes really obvious (Bjorn's various incarnations).

Sometimes people have a hard time posting on the forum the first time, and they sound really strange (remember YOUR first post??). I have also found - from interaction with SB, JM, and other people for whom English is a second language - that sometimes they sound great in English, and sometimes they can hardly speak it. (This isn't an insult by the way - I am not multi-lingual at all, and I admire people who can write and speak in a language that is not their native tongue.)

The other thing, Gerry, is that sometimes I or someone else here might know something about someone that we cannot reveal on the forum. For instance, I had very good reasons to know that SB was who she said she was, even before I met her in person. I still can't say what these reasons are, but I think there has to be a certain level of trust on the forum - I mean, we cannot suspect everyone, especially when people we know are vouching for them. In other words, I feel that it's best to risk being made a fool of in order to help someone that is sincere.

So send LOTS of flowers, Gerry (orchids, if possible) - SB wants to smack you hard! And she is a VERY beautiful woman...

Say hi to Bochephus and Sparky -
Katie

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Date: Sun, May 07, 2000 at 13:44:06 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: Cut it out!
Message:
I can't keep up with all the emails I'm getting... Wedding proposals too! Men are sending their pictures...

Flowers from Gerry? between all he is I bet you he's tight too! Seriously, an appology could have been nice... Again, I do not need it, but it could have been... Of course the real pay is watching him make a fool of himself over and over....Poor gerry, he's a baby!

Yes...If he took a look at me he'll feel sorry...he'll be on the floor beging forgiveness... But, since he hasn't see me yet, he wont appologize... It's his loss! Ah! I learned vanity from an indian guru who is ugly as hell and think is beautiful...but I'm beautiful!!!! I just kiss the mirror every morning...remembering Gerry's encounter with me, laughing, cause my ex gave me his blessings three days a go to post here, so? Gerry? Still think I'm a premie maybe...JM and I conspired to do the trip and took pictures of everybody, right Gerry? hahahah ROFL!!!

SB
Super Brat
Shifting
Me

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Date: Sun, May 07, 2000 at 04:23:29 (GMT)
From: george chakaris
Email: None
To: everyone
Subject: Taking face at people value
Message:
am I the only one 2 look in the mira
and see god?
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Date: Sun, May 07, 2000 at 22:33:35 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: george chakaris
Subject: Let me guess George . . .
Message:
You're a premie, right? You remind me of someone called Djburo or something like that. I never read him much either. There is a general, if not absolute, pattern in premieland.
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Date: Sun, May 07, 2000 at 03:32:26 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: I don't think SB's that superficial, Katie
Message:
Katie,

I know you mean well but, really, how are a bunch of flowers (literal or otherwise) going to help? Gerry went off on SB like a viscious mad dog without any rational justification. The only way SB's going to want to have anything at all to do with him, I'd imagine, is if he deals with the thought process that got him there in the first place. 'Sorry', in the circumstances, is a smoke screen.

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Date: Sun, May 07, 2000 at 03:53:05 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Shut up Heller, you asshole
Message:
Gerry went off on SB like a viscious mad dog without any rational justification.

Your gross fucking exaggerations just make you look sicker than you already are. You fucking liar and distorter.

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Date: Sun, May 07, 2000 at 13:11:00 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: You posted all my names....
Message:
when I began posting as Shifting because you thought I was a premie!... You posted all the other names I used too... You didn't care about kids or my ex-husband being a abusive premie...You didn't care I was afraid because I was very involved in this 'community'... You just laughed...You didn't even care when Jim told you you were wrong thinking I was a premie, because I talked on the phone with him and disclosed details of my life to him, and to others too...You didn't care about my fears or tears then...You were vicious and I have your emails to probe it!

Don't be calling women here bitches and expect that I won't remind you of who you are... An appology in time could have help...Not that I need ANYTHING from you...I don't! But, since I know what I know, you made your bed, now sleep on it!

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Date: Sun, May 07, 2000 at 06:32:40 (GMT)
From: Runamok
Email: None
To: Robin Williams
Subject: Is there a 900 number to call
Message:
for soap updates? I had to work today.
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Date: Sun, May 07, 2000 at 13:12:17 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: Runamok
Subject: Is there a 900 number to call
Message:
Call me Run. I'm at home today...I'll follow it...

S

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Date: Sun, May 07, 2000 at 03:44:50 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: SB is definitely NOT superficial...
Message:
...but she's a very kind and loving person. I think abject apologies and promises not to do it again might help. Don't know for sure, though.

Flowers wouldn't hurt either. And, BTW, you owe me quite a few bouquets yourself, Jim.

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Date: Sun, May 07, 2000 at 03:59:30 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: Well, let's ask her
Message:
My bet is that while she'd generously accept Gerry's apologies and maybe even accompanying gifts, she'd never really want to get too close to him unless and until she thought he'd come to terms with his whacky tendency to jump the gun on people.
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Date: Sun, May 07, 2000 at 03:51:54 (GMT)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: Don't hold your breath!
Message:
Jim has given you the favor of his time, trying to elevate your mind! Isn't that enough, you ingrate??!

I still think Jim is Henry Higgins, he doesn't realize how much he hurts people. He is astonished when other people do the same shit to him. He is sort of an innocent in that way, a brainy dude but slow on the 'affective' uptake.

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Date: Sun, May 07, 2000 at 08:14:26 (GMT)
From: Conçeçao
Email: None
To: Helen
Subject: Canadians
Message:
I hav notised that the three mos pleasant peoples on this place are Canadians. Jim Gerry Joey. This is mebe only one person? polyphrenic?
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Date: Sun, May 07, 2000 at 22:30:32 (GMT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: Conçeçao
Subject: Canadians
Message:
Dear Conçeçao,
I don't know what you are talking about but I want to know where you are from, were the small c's have feet!? :) I even have my glasses on! I think I need you to call me and say that name! :)
Also Gerry is not Canadian.
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Sun, May 07, 2000 at 03:54:08 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Helen
Subject: I'm not!
Message:
Are you kidding, girlfriend?! Holding my breath until Jim sends me flowers? Maybe J-M could do it, but not me :).
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Date: Sun, May 07, 2000 at 13:41:46 (GMT)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: I'm not!
Message:
HA HA--good one. I really was amazed at JM's sharklike abilitiy to swim underwater without taking a breath the entire length of the pool. Colleen thought he was some kind of enchanted creature, maybe she thought everyone from France could do that!
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Date: Sun, May 07, 2000 at 22:34:10 (GMT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: Helen
Subject: I'm not!
Message:
Dear Helen and Katie,
Just had to tell you that I just read this hunk of this thread and I think there are some serious things here that I have opinions on but not in the mood for that if you know what I mean but you two have also had me cracking up!!!
Thanks. :) I think JM should send us all flowers, aren't the French supposed to do that stuff. :)
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Mon, May 08, 2000 at 01:58:39 (GMT)
From: YOU'll be surprised...
Email: None
To: Robyn
Subject: SB tells you so...
Message:
he IS divine...We are in debt...all of you, are so adorable!!

TX again!!

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Date: Sun, May 07, 2000 at 03:14:16 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Here's what you can do about SB
Message:
You can wipe that stupid smile off your face and really examine the skewed thought process that you entertained which ended up beign far from entertaing for her. Anything short of that is meaningless. 'I'm sorry'? Sorry for what?
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Date: Sun, May 07, 2000 at 03:21:40 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: And here's what you can do
Message:
Go kill yourself.

I don't need your advice, I don't want your advice. I don't respect your opinion. I don't want your opinion. I don't want to think like Jim Heller. I don't want to believe what Jim Heller believes. I hate Jim Heller.

And piece of shit, what gives you the right to tell me or anyone else what to do?

And you, you goofy looking little puffy doughboy can kiss my ass. Now there's some advice.

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Date: Sun, May 07, 2000 at 03:45:11 (GMT)
From: Ms. Initiator
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: And here's what you can do
Message:
or Integrator
so sayeth the last $150 hour corporate consultant (I know Michael you get more money. Our backwoods joint could not afford you)

what have I started??

LOL selene who never gets answered directly in public

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Date: Sun, May 07, 2000 at 03:57:01 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Ms. Initiator
Subject: Hey, *I* answer you!
Message:
Don't I count?

We sold another 'Date with Satan' and Gerry and I needed to talk this out, so another good night's work for you, Selene.

Love,
Katie

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Date: Sun, May 07, 2000 at 03:59:57 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: of course you count
Message:
That was only my polite way of saying
FuCk YoU hEllEr yOu ... blah ..blah I can't help it... gerry was funny..
I liked the toilet scene in Trainspotting too.
Just call me.......
SELENE!!!!!
love you Katie, you know that...
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Date: Sun, May 07, 2000 at 04:08:17 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: Thank you Selene (nt)
Message:
no text!
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Date: Sun, May 07, 2000 at 04:15:12 (GMT)
From: george chakaris
Email: None
To: everyone
Subject: really curious
Message:
wow.. some responses
well guess what amigo/ amiga
there is a god
make thine eye single
and thy whole body will be full of light
drink o' these waters..and ye shall never taste death
btw.. guess who showed me?
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Date: Sun, May 07, 2000 at 13:18:26 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: george chakaris
Subject: Go to sleep!
Message:
Are you my ex-husband? If you are, Georgy, that is why I left you... You only had eyes for your guru... What about passion, eh? I like passion and you don't....keep sleeping...
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Date: Mon, May 08, 2000 at 00:41:58 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: to premie
Subject: Correction.... PRECEDE...
Message:
continue sleeping...or continue coming here...I dare you!! Is great to leave Lard's endoctrination!!! Nothing to it...really...No rotten vegetables!!

:)))))

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Date: Sun, May 07, 2000 at 08:18:20 (GMT)
From: Hal
Email: None
To: george chakaris
Subject: really curious
Message:
Are you a religious nutter cult member or what?
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Date: Sun, May 07, 2000 at 04:16:20 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: george chakaris
Subject: really curious
Message:
Your left hand or your right?
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Date: Sun, May 07, 2000 at 04:21:28 (GMT)
From: george chakaris
Email: None
To: everyone
Subject: really curious
Message:
alright... a live chat person..
j'ai sat chit anand pb
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Date: Sun, May 07, 2000 at 04:25:24 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: george chakaris
Subject: well *I* was talkin about the light technique
Message:
don't know about you!
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Date: Sun, May 07, 2000 at 04:42:50 (GMT)
From: george chakaris
Email: None
To: everyone
Subject: not really curious
Message:
I was talkin' 'bout
the light inside
kindo keep the secret vow
2 meSelf
It's my Catholic upbringing I think.
Kind of like the Sicilian mentality. Don't mess around
where I shouldn't be messin' around
No harm no foul.
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Date: Sun, May 07, 2000 at 04:45:33 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: george chakaris
Subject: they are all revealed here on the site anyway
Message:
whichever hand you use :) you already broke your vow!! Welcome George. My name is Selene and I'm an ex premie.And you are????
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Date: Sun, May 07, 2000 at 04:52:38 (GMT)
From: G.C.
Email: None
To: everyone
Subject: I dint already broke my vow..
Message:
what U talkin'?
i dint already broke my vow
geez.. get a grip..
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Date: Sun, May 07, 2000 at 00:17:45 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Bible finally gets the credit it deserves
Message:
From the Onion again.

Mistranslated Myths Of Nomadic Desert Shepherd Tribe Taken At Face Value

PITTSBURGH, PA--Arcane, poorly translated scrolls etched by an unknown hand thousands of years ago were taken at face value Monday, when Pittsburgh orthodontist Donald Reuss consulted an English translation of a Hebraic manuscript titled 'Deuteronomy' for guidance in a personal crisis.

'I was at my wits' end over what to do about my failing marriage,' Reuss said. 'Marjorie and I thought about counseling, therapy, even divorce. In the end, though, I got the help I needed from a book of stories inscribed by an itinerant Middle Eastern shepherd many millennia ago.'

Reuss said he learned of the antediluvian text from a friend following an argument with his wife. 'Bob said he had a book that I should read,' Reuss said. 'I figured it would be some sort of self-help book written by one of those professional therapists born in the latter half of the 20th century. But to my surprise, it was a contemporary printing of a historical and genealogical account of the growth and persecution of the Jewish people, originally written in ancient Hebrew. And you know what? Not only were the tales relevant to my situation, they're completely true!'

Deuteronomy, like the four other books with which it is often collected, is believed to have originated from the oral folklore of nomadic Jews who wandered the deserts of the Middle East. The stories that emerged from this oral tradition were handed down through subsequent generations and ultimately written down in now-dead tongues. In the modern era, the books have proven to be of great interest both to historians specializing in ancient Middle Eastern tribal cultures and to people with problems.

Reuss is not the only troubled American to consult an ancient Nile Valley manuscript in recent years. In April 1998, Wayzata, MN, homemaker Brenda Smolensk credited 'Exodus' with guiding her through a period of severe depression.

'I was deeply confused about my place in the world,' Smolensk said. 'I needed to know what life was all about, what I was put on Earth for. Luckily, that exact matter had been discussed in Exodus by a roving scribe some 4,000 years ago.'

'At first, I was skeptical about what relevance these ancient writings could possibly have to my situation,' Smolensk continued. 'But they actually deal with all kinds of germane topics, from what meats one should not eat due to mankind's lack of refrigeration technology to the pre-Iron Age accounts of territorial disputes affecting a certain area of the Fertile Crescent.'

'We are pleased that so many have found comfort and guidance in God's word,' said Peter Wanamaker, president and founder of In His Name Books, a publishing house specializing in archaic texts of the sort which aided Reuss and Smolensk. 'The problems that plague modern man have not changed, and neither have the solutions.'

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Date: Sun, May 07, 2000 at 02:36:25 (GMT)
From: Gilead
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Bible finally gets the credit it deserves
Message:
I remember seeing Jim Jones throw the Bible on the floor of his churches out at Redwood Valley and San Francisco, spit on it, and jump on it. He was trying to warn people that so many fundamentalists make an idol of that 'black book' as he would call it. I think he was right on this point. And, he was ordained with the Disciples of Christ, as a mainstream clergyman.
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Date: Sun, May 07, 2000 at 00:45:10 (GMT)
From: raina
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Re: This weeks TV guide-Jesus as Hottie.
Message:
Who do you think they'll get to play M in the tv movies?
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Date: Sun, May 07, 2000 at 00:49:50 (GMT)
From: Elaine B.
Email: None
To: raina
Subject: Buddy Hackett was first that came to mind
Message:
Only bec of dark hair and weight. This is a fun game will look forward to more input.
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Date: Sun, May 07, 2000 at 03:36:45 (GMT)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Elaine B.
Subject: Buddy Hackett was first that came to mind
Message:
I just had to bust out laughing when I saw your 'Buddy Hackett' idea. Oh God, that is too funny!
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Date: Sun, May 07, 2000 at 00:44:03 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: talk about boring...(nt)
Message:
asdf
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Date: Sat, May 06, 2000 at 23:47:38 (GMT)
From: Lotus Eater
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Fruits
Message:
Dear All,
My complexion is definitely rosier now, of course I have a little problem lower down. Oops, there goes another one. Yes folks, now I have gas, nitrous oxide is fizzing through my neural pathways. Which reminds me, I hope you didn’t miss out on the ‘brain farts’, it must have been a subject of hilarity on this site.

At the risk of giving offence I would like to express my gratitude:

You are a damn fine bunch of broke motherfuckers. LE

NB I am still aware of the need to chill out, and I am going to Loaf around a bit and find my Way.

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Date: Sun, May 07, 2000 at 15:32:32 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: Lotus Eater
Subject: your way to where?
Message:
you motherfucker insane asshole!! You call me motherfucker once more and the administrador will get an email with all your 'nice' littel words pasted, and then you'll be banned from this forum, you ass!
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Date: Tues, May 09, 2000 at 00:37:03 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: SB
Subject: hahahahahaha
Message:
Oh Jimmy boy isn't a little 'correction' in order here, your star pupil is slipping...
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Date: Tues, May 09, 2000 at 13:34:19 (GMT)
From: Super Brat
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: hahahahahaha
Message:
I did it for you, baby...well, you got lucky: A post that I responded to is not here anymore...

Glad to continue causing you to laugh: You do too!! Is better than crying....

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Date: Sun, May 07, 2000 at 06:27:54 (GMT)
From: Loaf
Email: None
To: Lotus Eater
Subject: Thou shalt not take the Lord's name in vain
Message:
Its so nice to be mentioned.

I shan't let it spoil me.

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Date: Sun, May 07, 2000 at 00:48:20 (GMT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: Lotus Eater
Subject: Fruits
Message:
Funny Lotus Eater, :)
This reminds me of a guy, Sam, I think, who lived on the premie farm I did here in Pennsylvania. I was the house mother and every day he come talk to me about what his latest shit was like so I could make the evening meal accordingly!!! There was another guy, Albert, who use to fart all the time, like you, :), and I would smack him or something and he'd whine, Do you want me to be sick! MEN! :) of course I assume you are a man for no reason other then I just do.
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Sat, May 06, 2000 at 23:53:25 (GMT)
From: Lotus Eater
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: Hillside retreat
Message:
Dear Way,
I posted a response, it is in the inactive index with the above title.

Your comment about not taking orders from him anymore and NOT walking has proved to be extraordinarily helpful.

A much relieved Lotus Eater

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Date: Sun, May 07, 2000 at 15:42:16 (GMT)
From: LIER!!!
Email: None
To: Lotus Eater
Subject: Lotus eater is a lier!! nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Sun, May 07, 2000 at 20:09:50 (GMT)
From: Hal
Email: None
To: S:B
Subject: Lotus eater is a lier!! nt
Message:
Would you explain to me please what's going on here S.B.? Is Lotus Eater a fake or something? I don't get it.

Puzzled Hal

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Date: Sat, May 06, 2000 at 21:53:45 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Yeah? What about the '70s?
Message:
Here's a report from a Happy Clapper usher over on ELK. Note the 'almost playful' waves. Now this woman could share an apartment with Janice. The rest of you are far too negative:

Like riding a bicycle...

A report by Carol Post

On the day of my departure for Miami, I awoke to the news that my airline had gone bankrupt and all flights were cancelled - with no offer of compensation or complimentary alternative flights. My first reaction was disbelief, a little bit of panic and then a feeling that there was a 'game afoot'.

It's been almost a year since I last saw Maharaji, the longest time I have ever gone between events. It's been a period of growth, understanding, commitment - a time to get stronger, a time for self-reflection and a time for the desire and longing to be with him to take hold of me in a sweet but tenacious way. The shutdown of an entire airline was not about to get in the way of the longing and desire of my heart.

After a day full of adventures, my travelling companions and I found ourselves in Miami Beach that evening - full of gratitude and anticipation.

Coming together with the ushering and assistance team the next day was delightful. I hadn't seen many of these people in so long. I don't know how many times I said: 'I'm so happy to see you!' full of hugs and sincerity from a wonderful place inside. We had our work cut out for us, but I sensed a joy and relaxation and trust I hadn't felt in a long time - maybe never, as it was so much in the moment.

The day of the event the sun was bright; it was a breezy day and as I looked across the beach the waves were high and rough, almost playful. My heart was open, ready to receive.

From my ushering position inside the hall I could feel the quiet of the room as it filled up. Maharaji came out on stage, and I was home again. Safe, loved, in his presence. I was connected. What had felt like such a long period of time all of a sudden felt like only yesterday, almost as if we had never been apart.

He spoke so beautifully, as always, reminding me how precious this gift of life is, and how precious is the gift of Knowledge. He spoke a lot about acceptance, comparing acceptance to learning how to ride a bicycle. The person who is teaching you tells you to pedal, pedal, pedal, and look straight ahead. You know that if you do this you're going to fall down, so you think the person teaching you doesn't know what he's talking about. But at some point something clicks and then you can do it.

The evening session was like being invited into his living room - he was so intimate and funny. There were several presentations by other speakers and then Maharaji spoke again. He shared with us his enthusiasm for telling others about his message. He reminded us that although North America has been sleepy, he knows it can be different. He suggested merging the enthusiasm of the Seventies with what we know today, and expressed how incredible the outcome of the marriage of these two factors could be.

So much was said, so much was felt. As Maharaji left the stage, I felt my heart go with him - until next time.

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Date: Sat, May 06, 2000 at 22:13:17 (GMT)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Yeah? What about the '70s?
Message:
merging the enthusiasm of the 70's (translation=we were freakin' NUTS) with what we know today (translation=we can make big money onthe stock market, and play the corporate game, sell K and M in a more socially acceptable, palatable manner)
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Date: Sat, May 06, 2000 at 22:22:17 (GMT)
From: Know It All
Email: None
To: Helen
Subject: Yeah? What about the '70s?
Message:
That was funny Helen!
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Date: Sat, May 06, 2000 at 22:24:32 (GMT)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Know It All
Subject: Yeah? What about the '70s?
Message:
Thanks--it's true though, don't you think? M wants us to be good little children like any parent who survived the 70's--ha ha
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Date: Sat, May 06, 2000 at 21:03:42 (GMT)
From: Gilead
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: WHY SO MANY ADOPT RIGHT WING?
Message:
Why is it that so many who were victims of cults, take on the a right wing ideology, justifying the 'American dream' and that we live in a just world? While expressing rightful anger about personal experiences in cults, it is illogical to think that there is some kind of a mainstream that is 'rational and moral' in government, or larger mainline religions. Its like falling into the trap of the Puritans, when they went on witch hunts, against persons who did not ideologically comply with the 'american way' whatever that meant to them. Or, the Catholics in the Inquisition, against Jews and Muslims. Its like a projection of ones own bad experience and shortcomings, onto others.
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Date: Sun, May 07, 2000 at 02:35:57 (GMT)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: Gilead
Subject: I do not agree....
Message:
the theory sounds great but I do not see it reflected here. That I know of, there are only three ex premie regular posters that would even consider themselves the least bit conservative, myself, FYJYPOS Gerry, and Mike ( who was driven out by those who could not see that there is a difference between being conservative and being fascist ).

The VAST majority of ex's have returned to their political roots, and are liberal democrats. I am not saying this is bad, I disagree with some of their beliefs, but I like and respect most of the ex premies who post here.

But I do not think that most ex cult members are right wing. No way. At least not from this cult.

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Date: Sun, May 07, 2000 at 04:36:19 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Susan
Subject: I also agree with Susan
Message:
I am definitely a liberal Democrat, as are most of the people on the ex-premie forum who have talked about their political feelings on this forum. Furthermore, I think the so-called 'conservative' people on this ex-premie forum (Mike, Gerry, Susan, and you forgot...Brian!) are more socially liberal and fiscally conservative than most mainstream Republicans. In other words, they tend towards libertarianism (forgive me, Susan, if I am wrong about you).

Gilead, if you want to debate the political affiliation of 'ex-cult' people or 'deprogrammers' in general, you should probably go to a more broadly oriented forum or newsgroup, such as alt.support.ex-cult.

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Date: Sun, May 07, 2000 at 16:17:25 (GMT)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: well said Katie
Message:
yes, I would say that is the sort of conservative I am, if I am even really conservative.
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Date: Sun, May 07, 2000 at 02:47:48 (GMT)
From: JW
Email: None
To: Susan
Subject: I agree, Susan
Message:
I think those people who got involved in the Maharaji cult in the 70s tended to come from the left, at least on social issues. They weren't very political people, and politics of any sort was considered 'mind' in the cult. That certainly wasn't true of everyone, but I think it was very common.

When people got out of the cult, they probably did go back to their original political beliefs, to the extent they had any, which obviously had to be updated in relation to however much time they had spent in the cult, largely wasting their lives, and certainly NOT being involved in public affairs.

I think other cults, like EST, Scientology, and the Moonies, were decidedly more conservative. EST, because it was blatantly yuppie capitalist, and the Moonies because the leader was about as far right wing politically as you could get, and the members tended to follow that. Maharaji, on the other hand, seemed to know not the first thing about politics, and when he said anything about politics or historical events, he revealed he didn't have a clue what he was talking about. Of course, he only had a 9th grade education.

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Date: Sun, May 07, 2000 at 04:45:33 (GMT)
From: LA-EX
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: I agree, Susan-Now wait a minute,Joe
Message:
There you go again Joe, distorting all the facts to make the guru look bad and all that.
Fact:the guru did not have a 9th grade education.
He quit St Josephs after the 8th grade...
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Date: Sun, May 07, 2000 at 04:04:29 (GMT)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: well said Joe. Thanks! nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Sun, May 07, 2000 at 04:35:39 (GMT)
From: Gilead
Email: None
To: Susan
Subject: are you Jewish?
Message:
You're strong reaction on Hassan being Jewish, but then not commenting on any of the points, made me wonder. If its all about human beings, then such wouldn't matter. Mr. Hassan would still care about the Iraqis, Palestinians, and Libyans, etc.
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Date: Sun, May 07, 2000 at 02:53:19 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: It all depends on where the centre is
Message:
Obviously someone of Gilead's mindset is going to think that anyone who doesn't acknowledge and fear the global conspiracy is buying into it. That's what I think he means by 'right wing'. Mind you, he might no more know what he means by that than he does by the word 'cult'.
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Date: Sun, May 07, 2000 at 03:44:32 (GMT)
From: Gilead
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: It all depends on where the centre is
Message:
You sound like a typical middle class, middle american. Have you ever spent time in the ghettos of urban cities in this country?
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Date: Sun, May 07, 2000 at 03:55:40 (GMT)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: Gill Head
Subject: It all depends on where the centre is
Message:
Okay, I do not say mean things very often, But Gill head, you are DENSE!

Centre...tip off...this guy ain't American.

Jim's Canadian. And, he is a criminal defense attorney. A profession in which a person HAS to expose themselves to the seemy underbelly of society to feed his family!

I think you are one of those people who is:

frequently wrong, but never in doubt!

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Date: Sat, May 06, 2000 at 21:37:58 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Gilead
Subject: Perfect analogy!
Message:
You nailed that one, bud! Good work.
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Date: Sat, May 06, 2000 at 21:48:32 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Gilead
Subject: Ooooo, a stroke from the big guy...
Message:
Man, your stock just went through the roof !!!!
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Date: Sat, May 06, 2000 at 21:37:49 (GMT)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Gilead
Subject: WHY SO MANY ADOPT RIGHT WING?
Message:
I disagree judging from the small sample of cult exes here at the forum. I would say we are pretty much a political mixed bag. If anything the ones who aren't liberals here tend to be libertarians, not at all apologists for the government IMO.
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Date: Sat, May 06, 2000 at 23:17:08 (GMT)
From: His Holiness Gilead Ji
Email: None
To: Helen
Subject: WHY SO MANY ADOPT RIGHT WING?
Message:
Helen, you may be right in some ways, but then, when I read web sites like the AFF and Hassan, the end result of their stance on cults is right wing. To me, it is total arrogance to set one self up as a Puritan Witch Hunter, and base the standard of what is legit and was is not, on ones own ideological persuasion. Its almost like cops (yes, this has been my experience with them, even the friendly ones), they really believe in the system, and think they're doing the right thing by focusing their energies on poor people for the rich who use them so often. The 'experts' on cults take the stance that the American system, almost like the Newt Gingrich, Paddy Buchanan, Jerry Falwell, Fans of Reagan Clubs, etc., is the perfect standard -- the white, Protestant, middle class, value system of capitalism (though secular humanists are also interestingly included as a legit ideology with which to measure cults, etc.).
You may not be right wing, but the end result of some of these 'experts' clearly go in that direction. Some fundamentalists from the Bible belt even consider other large Christian groups, such as Seventh Day Adventists, Jehovah's Witnesses, Catholics, as cults. Truly, they are following the traditions of their Puritan, Calvinist forerunners.
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Date: Sun, May 07, 2000 at 02:38:17 (GMT)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: His Holiness Gilead Ji
Subject: I would be SHOCKED if Hassan is a conservative
Message:
I just read his book. I think you need to research this stuff better.
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Date: Sun, May 07, 2000 at 03:04:12 (GMT)
From: Gilead Ji
Email: None
To: Susan
Subject: I would be SHOCKED if Hassan is a conservative
Message:
Susan, I just read his web sites and some of his literature. I always try to read more, if it helps me better understand. But, Hassan himself has been on this forum. He keeps up with it. Why don't we ask Hassan to comment? Lets be fair though, he's sort of a guru to many ex premies, insofar as looking up to him (NOT ALL EX PREMIES, I SAID MANY...). I HAVE done extensive research, though perhaps not known like Hassan, nor would I want to be known as a cult expert. I don't see simple answers in assessing all groups, as the group dynamics may be very complex.
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Date: Sun, May 07, 2000 at 03:11:15 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Gilead Ji
Subject: You're so funny
Message:
Where'd you get the idea that our great leader, Steve Hassan has deigned to grant us an audience here? Sure, it would be so cool if he did but I've learned long ago that it's painful to dream too hard, if you know what I mean. We can only wish and wait, Gilead. Join us now while we pray...
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Date: Sat, May 06, 2000 at 23:21:29 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: His Holiness Gilead Ji
Subject: What? They're NOT cults?
Message:
Some fundamentalists from the Bible belt even consider other large Christian groups, such as Seventh Day Adventists, Jehovah's Witnesses, Catholics, as cults.

Define 'cult'.

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Date: Sun, May 07, 2000 at 00:00:57 (GMT)
From: GILEAD JI
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: What? They're NOT cults?
Message:
I don't have an official definition like Hassan or AFF. Consider, politically the regime in power of the New World Order claims that 'free enterprise' where every body is supposedly an 'equal player' is the normal, and best idea. Its built many lies, since the majority of the masses are on the outside looking in, as the few families with all the money are in control. So-called 'free democracy''S job is to trick the people, as a buffer, to make them think that, despite all the contradictions, its the best system. They will hand out token opportunities for some, use racism in a subtle, politically correct manner (even hiring some 'responsible' leaders from minority communities, as tokens, to keep the people in line).

The Communist regimes do the same thing, consider the students at China a few years ago. Not much different than what happened in Philadelphia to the MOVE organization, when Philadelphia police fired bombed the political 'radicals'.

When you answer me about your idea of what a cult is, what category would these political lies and deception, used to exploit the masses, be considered?

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Date: Sun, May 07, 2000 at 02:39:13 (GMT)
From: JW
Email: None
To: GILEAD JI
Subject: Cult -- a definition
Message:
This is the defintion I like to use. I find that it's easier to use characteristics, rather than some kind of rigid definition, because cults come in all shapes and sizes.

Anyhow, those characteristics include:

1. A group that claims to offer a simple solution to problems that the cult also describes. Example, 'knowledge' is supposed to bring you happiness, and it is a solution to some kind of supposed war that is going on inside yourself with your own mind.

2. A leader, or group of leaders, that is considered either more highly advanced, intelligent, or some kind of a deity, that is responsible for what you get in number 1, above, and worthy of worship, financial support, gratitude, etc. The parallel to Maharaji is obvious.

3. Little or no tolerance of doubting, criticism or dissent from the group's belief system, and ESPECIALLY of the leader. Also, obvious, given that we have been unable to get even ONE premie who's come here in the past 3 years to say even the teensiest negative thing about Maharaji.

4. The people who are in the cult believe that have something that other people don't have, and they feel special, lucky, and superior to other people as a result. Also, obvious.

There are a bunch more qualities of cults, but I think those are the essential 4. Now, is a religion a cult? I think they could be, depending and the teachings, and especially, depending on the level of tolerance for dissent, and whether the religion has living leaders who are reverred, or, like a lot of mainstream protestant religions, people form congregations and essentially 'hire' a pastor to work on organizing the local church.

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Date: Sun, May 07, 2000 at 22:03:25 (GMT)
From: Danny Webster
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: Cult -- a definition
Message:
If you go to dictionary.com, here is the definition of cult given there:
cult (klt)
n.
1.
a.A religion or religious sect generally considered to be extremist or false, with its followers often living in an unconventional manner under the guidance of an authoritarian, charismatic leader.
b.The followers of such a religion or sect.
2.A system or community of religious worship and ritual.
3.The formal means of expressing religious reverence; religious ceremony and ritual.
4.A usually nonscientific method or regimen claimed by its originator to have exclusive or exceptional power in curing a particular disease.
5.
a.Obsessive, especially faddish, devotion to or veneration for a person, principle, or
thing.
b.The object of such devotion.
6.An exclusive group of persons sharing an esoteric, usually artistic or intellectual interest.
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Date: Sun, May 07, 2000 at 03:00:18 (GMT)
From: Gilead
Email: 'the truth will make you free'
To: JW
Subject: Cult -- a definition
Message:
You didn't respond to my inquiries about the world at large, how all the things you describe, in this land that says 'In God We Trust' is most intolerant of different views, even to the pointing of using starvation as a weapon, consider Cuba with the economic embargo, all over ideology!!! (unless one thinks the ideas of communism are a threat to free minds!). Self righteous professional politicians, experts at opportunism, how are they different from cult leaders or cult leader assistants?

We talk of Jonestown and Waco, but what about the terrorism that was used by the Philadelphia police when they fire bombed the MOVE people?

With your logic, I would say then that most politicians, capitalists who control the land and its foreign and domestic policies, etc., would be cults and cult leaders...

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Date: Sun, May 07, 2000 at 03:08:30 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Gilead
Subject: Aha! You hit the nail on the head there, Gilead!
Message:
No wonder you don't want to define cult. Everything's included! No, you're absolutely right, Jonestown and Waco are no more cults than the Philadelphia police force.

Hey, when's your book coming out anyway? And how will we know?

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Date: Sun, May 07, 2000 at 03:13:42 (GMT)
From: His Holiness Gilead Ji
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Aha! You hit the nail on the head there, Gilead!
Message:
Do we agree finally on this point? I was just trying to play devil's advocate, to point out the double standards and hyprocritical stance of the mainstream. They are guilty of the same thing as the cults, and hence the cults thrive.
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Date: Sun, May 07, 2000 at 03:16:01 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: His Holiness Gilead Ji
Subject: Uh oh! Warning: no sarcasm zone
Message:
I don't know where you're swimming, Bilead, but you might want to wash yourself off in the mainstream once in a while. Just a thought.
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Date: Sun, May 07, 2000 at 03:20:26 (GMT)
From: Gilead Ji
Email: 'Why Can't We Be Friends'
To: Jim
Subject: Uh oh! Warning: no sarcasm zone
Message:
I guess I fell for it that time. I was gullible in that I thought we had come to an agreement at least to some extend. But now you say it was sarcasm. You got me on that one. By the way, did you like the group 'War' in the 70's?
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Date: Sun, May 07, 2000 at 03:24:46 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Gilead Ji
Subject: Uh oh! Warning: no sarcasm zone
Message:
Not particularly. Why?
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Date: Sun, May 07, 2000 at 02:42:53 (GMT)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: Cult -- a definition
Message:
Good. The voice of reason speaks!

Now Joe, do you think most ex's are liberal or conservative? Of our cult.

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Date: Sun, May 07, 2000 at 03:06:37 (GMT)
From: Gilead
Email: None
To: Susan
Subject: Cult -- a definition
Message:
Susan, can you help him with comments from my prior writing on this thread?
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Date: Sun, May 07, 2000 at 02:51:00 (GMT)
From: JW
Email: None
To: Susan
Subject: Susan, see my post above.....nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Sun, May 07, 2000 at 00:21:45 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: GILEAD JI
Subject: MOVE I remember that...
Message:
I was living in Pennsylvania at the time. All sorts of shit was flying around in the propogandist press about who they were and what they represented.

The bizarre thing (to me, anyway) was that Philadelphia had a African American mayor at the time, I've forgotten his name--and it makes you wonder who REALLY was pulling the strings (anyone know the whereabouts of Janet Reno at the time?) Killed a lot of people, I recall, including kids.

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Date: Sun, May 07, 2000 at 03:11:25 (GMT)
From: Gilead
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: MOVE I remember that...
Message:
If you ever read Malcolm X's writings, he talks about the house negro and the field negro. The racist system often uses Blacks as house negros, to assist against their own people. It goes back to the days of slavery, from which this country still has not recovered. Consider Captain John Brown, whose 200th year birthday falls this May 9th 2000. How many Caucasians, so called, will consider him a national hero? Why is it that only African Americans, as a majority, will recognize this man? Is it because of a still subtle racism in the unconscious of so many so-called whites, that they draw a line when a so-called white man fights and dies for Blacks, who he considers his brothers and sisters? I'm an Arab American, arbitrarily considered 'Caucasian', but I don't buy into these made up racial categories, since they were invented by the slave owners and imperialists.
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Date: Sun, May 07, 2000 at 00:08:05 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: GILEAD JI
Subject: You use a word but can't define it?
Message:
Sorry, Gil, that doesn't wash here and it certianly wouldn't wash with Mr. Albert Ellis! Come now, you're quick to bandy the term 'cultic' around. Think a bit. What are you really saying? Do you think you could perhaps find out what you're saying or are your own words too inscrutable for even you to make sense of?

Again, cult -- what is it?

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Date: Sun, May 07, 2000 at 03:18:04 (GMT)
From: Gilead
Email: Socratic Dialogue
To: Jim
Subject: You use a word but can't define it?
Message:
Help me out, comment on my recent threads, you miss the points made in my writing. It is logical in that we cannot arbitrarily, as you seem to do, make take on the definition of some self proclaimed expert on cults. We've gotta look at the whole situation. Semantics can be a problem. Words can be defined in many different ways. We're trying to analyze a big area here. I don't have all the answers, help me out (not trying to be a pompous self-proclaimed Socrates, either, I'm just trying to figure it out too).
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Date: Sun, May 07, 2000 at 03:22:13 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Gilead
Subject: Socrates at your service, sir
Message:
I am trying to help you out, Gilead. If we could get Albert Ellis here we would but we can't so we all have to do our little bit, huh? You use the word cult quite liberally. Yet you withhold it, apparently, in the very examples most people would say fit to a tee (e.g. Waco, Jonestown). I'm asking you to define it or fall to your knees and bow your head acknowledging that you're one confused puppy.
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Date: Sun, May 07, 2000 at 03:32:51 (GMT)
From: Gilead Ji
Email: Socratic Dialogue
To: Jim
Subject: Wouldn't that make you pompous, based on my logic?
Message:
I think that that other guy was on to something, when he pointed out the CULTture of CULT in this world.
I wonder how many people knew of the word cult, until after Jonestown, when so many opportunists, posing as cult experts, wrote cheap paperbacks?
Anyway, I don't want to get you angrier at me, remember, I'm just a fallible human being, as Al would say, the same as you (unless you really see yourself as the Enlightened Socrates).
I admit that I can sometimes be persistent and hence a pain in the ass. I'm just trying to 'take the funamentals of existence for this moment and time' (Just kidding, I was going to throw a trip about Mr. M., but then I remembered that would not be related in any way to Socratic dialogues, since Mr. M. just keeps saying his little slogans over & over).
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Date: Sun, May 07, 2000 at 03:38:00 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Gilead Ji
Subject: Okay, here's a guy who REALLY needs emoticoms!
Message:
Sheesh, Gil, again, I was kidding a bit. Don['t they do that in Arab-American? And besides, maybe I am pompous? So? (Okay, kidding again.)
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Date: Sun, May 07, 2000 at 03:47:58 (GMT)
From: Gilead Ji the First
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: I was just trying to add humour to it all, Jim
Message:
I was just throwing it out, thinking you'd laugh at it.
Hey Jim, when you hinted at my being upset, that hurt, man, I thought you knew me better, as a Comrade of the Ex Premie Forum.
I'm getting over it fast, though, as I think of my amazon.com order of The Lord of the Universe, it makes me laugh just thinking of M in Denver in the 70's!
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Date: Sun, May 07, 2000 at 01:26:15 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: You use a word but can't define it?
Message:
Cult -CULTure. Our cultures are a cult - get it Jim?

You are really tiresomely aggressive sometimes Jim - whats the point of your 'tone of voice.' I don't even like reading it.

Oh, I get it; you're the judge at everyone's mock trial if they make the mistake of saying something you disagree with, disapprove of, or consider to be unsubstantiated.

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Date: Sun, May 07, 2000 at 03:34:29 (GMT)
From: Gilead
Email: None
To: Stonor
Subject: Thanks for your help in this attempted Socratic...
Message:
dialogue. Thanks for trying to help Jim understand.
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Date: Sun, May 07, 2000 at 03:39:23 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Gilead
Subject: You mean 'thanks for trying to get me off the hook
Message:
Still waiting for your definiton of 'cult' by the way.
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Date: Sun, May 07, 2000 at 03:51:33 (GMT)
From: Gilead
Email: Webster's Dictionary, Inc.
To: Jim
Subject: You mean 'thanks for trying to get me off the hook
Message:
Not to disappoint you tonight, but I'll try to find my Webster's in all this garbage, and quote it for you. Hey, but then, what about Mr. Webster, what is his role in this conspiracy? (joking).
(After your one message, I don't want you thinking I'm sitting here 'alone and crying').
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Date: Sun, May 07, 2000 at 01:54:42 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Stonor
Subject: That's it exactly stonor.
Message:

Somehow Heller thinks he's the last word on everything. He's set himself up as the supreme arbitrator of truth and rationality. Judge, jury and executioner. You weren't here from some of his better works, like on Bobby.

He gleefully and frequently points to my stupid and venal mistakes, eg SB, and Art Chappelle, but rarely gets called to task for his bloody and cruel treatment of just about anyone who dares cross his path.

No, noone dare risk the wrath of the great one, the Superstar of ex-premie.org. It gets very tedious. He's really just a small minded pain-in-the-ass.

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Date: Sun, May 07, 2000 at 19:57:54 (GMT)
From: My God Man
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: then DO SOMETHING about it..
Message:
He's in the book.
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Date: Sun, May 07, 2000 at 15:44:23 (GMT)
From: And you are one too
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: To care so much!! nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Sun, May 07, 2000 at 01:44:14 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Stonor
Subject: Is that the best you can do, Stonor?
Message:
Stonor,

I don't care about your squishy new age ideas and yes, you'll find me 'aggressive' towards them. You might not think words matter. Fine. I wasn't talking to you. I was talking to Gilead who's more than willing to use the word 'cultic' (which, we all know, isn't exactly complimentary here) and should be able to explain what he means, I'd say.

Or do we really need to bring in the great Albert Ellis?

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Date: Sun, May 07, 2000 at 03:27:00 (GMT)
From: Gilead Ji
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Is that the best you can do, Stonor?
Message:
Jim, I was the guy who brought up Dr. Ellis. Have you ever met him or studied with him? I have spent quite a time as a psychologist under his supervision at the Ellis Institute in Manhattan. You bring him up, so I wondered if you also were associated with the Institute?
By the way, even in psychology, people fall prey to 'models' and 'tunnel vision'. I like the techniques of Ellis, but his theory is very limited, as it only looks at the left brain hemisphere, linear thought, which is also of the Western influence. There is also the right brain hemisphere, which is spatial, and carries intuition. I didn't want you to think I thought of Dr. Ellis in a cultlike fashion as my guru. I just admire him for his techniques and genius, but also see its the weaknesses of his model.
If you were real open about it, you might start to see things that way with Hassan and AFF, too. There's a saying in AA, 'take what works and leave the rest'.
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Date: Mon, May 08, 2000 at 19:22:18 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Gilead Ji
Subject: 'even in psychology' ??? ... nudge nudge
Message:
'even in psychology' ???

Since when did the shrinks start thinking they knew it all? ;;;)))

PS - note the triple ;)

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Date: Sun, May 07, 2000 at 03:35:40 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Gilead Ji
Subject: Is that the best you can do, Stonor?
Message:
Gilead,

You're obviously earnest about all this, aren't you? I jest about Ellis because of the way you built him up as the one guy who could really talk to our guru for us. Please!

Beside that I know nothing of him. It sounds like I'd probably liek him, maybe even more than you do from the sound of things, you know, given your reservations and all.

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Date: Mon, May 08, 2000 at 02:02:21 (GMT)
From: Gilead
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Jimmy, I love that Doctor Al!
Message:
Don't get me wrong, I love the guy, he is so impolite, that he makes me laugh. Glad you see the jest in it all.
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Date: Sun, May 07, 2000 at 02:08:03 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Can't you EVER do any better Jim?
Message:
Fine Jim - didn't know your post was private. Why did you butt in when I was talking to Raina down below?

And you can have what ever point of view you like Jim - but that doesn't make it the Truth, nor does it make up for your inability to respect others' ideas without judging them, often aggressively and to no end.

The only squishy thing around here Jim, is between your legs.

Stonor

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Date: Sun, May 07, 2000 at 02:41:22 (GMT)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: Stonor
Subject: Read Hassan's book
Message:
about what a cult is and how to get people to think for themselves.

Culture is not a cult. Most mainstream religions are not cults. There really is a difference.

Really, as ex members of a bonafide cult we ought to educate ourselves about what they are.

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Date: Sun, May 07, 2000 at 03:58:31 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: Susan
Subject: Read Chomsky ;-p, Buckminster Fuller, William I...
Message:
Hi Susan,

I believe I understand more or less what you're saying, but that was not the only point with Jim. Read Chomsky, Buckminster Fuller, William Irwin Thompson, Caroline Hodges Persell . . . It's not a 'conspiracy,' it's the way we are raised to see the world and how the media reinforce that, and . . . I am aware that there is a difference in many ways and on many levels, between a cult like m's and anyone's 'culture,' nevertheless I also believe that there are significant parallels, with aspects of some of our individual cultures perhaps having even more far-reaching and potentially negative effect on human lives around the world than 'm.'

Remember this one?

World ideologies
----------------

WORLD IDEOLOGIES EXPLAINED BY REFERENCE TO COWS

FEUDALISM
You have two cows. Your lord takes some of the milk.

SOCIALISM
You have two cows. The government takes them and puts them in a barn with everyone else's cows. You have to take care of all the cows. The government gives you a glass of milk.

FASCISM
You have two cows. The government takes both, hires you to take care of them, and sells you the milk.

PURE COMMUNISM
You share two cows with your neighbors. You and your neighbors bicker about who have the most 'ability' and who has the most 'need.' Meanwhile, no one works, no one gets any milk, and the cows drop dead of starvation.

RUSSIAN COMMUNISM
You have two cows. You have to take care of them, but the government takes all the milk. You steal back as much milk as you can and sell it on the black market.

PERESTROIKA
You have two cows. You have to take care of them, but the Mafia takes all the milk. You steal back as much milk as you can and sell it on the 'free market.'

CAMBODIAN COMMUNISM
You have two cows. The government takes both and shoots you.

DICTATORSHIP
You have two cows. The government takes both and drafts you.

PURE DEMOCRACY
You have two cows. Your neighbors decide who gets the milk.

REPRESENTATIVE DEMOCRACY
You have two cows. Your neighbors pick someone to tell you who gets the milk.

BUREAUCRACY
You have two cows. At first the government regulates what you can feed them and when you can milk them. Then it pays you not to milk them. Then it takes both, shoots one, milks the other and pours the milk down the drain. Then it requires you to fill out forms accounting for the missing cows.

CAPITALISM
You don't have any cows. The bank will not lend you money to buy cows because you don't have any cows to put up as collateral.

PURE ANARCHY
You have two cows. Either you sell the milk at a fair price or your neighbors try to take the cows and kill you.

ANARCHO-CAPITALISM
You have two cows. You sell one and buy a bull.

SURREALISM
You have two giraffes. The government requires you to take harmonica lessons.

OLYMPICS-ISM
You have two cows, one American, one Chinese. With the help of trilling violins and state of the art montage photography, John Tesh narrates the moving tale of how the American cow overcame the agony of growing up in a suburb with (gasp) divorced parents, then mentions in passing that the Chinese cow was beaten every day by a tyrannical farmer and watched its parents butchered before its eyes. The American cow wins the competition, severely spraining an udder in a gritty performance, and gets a multi-million dollar contract to endorse Wheaties. The Chinese cow is led out of the arena and shot by Chinese government officials, though no one ever hears about it. McDonald's buys the meat and serves it hot and fast at its Beijing restaurant.

AMERICAN CORPORATE CAPITALISM
Both cows are bloated with toxic steroids. They are set out to graze on privatized public parks, release massive amounts of flatulence that destroys the ozone layer, die from excess ultraviolet light, and are processed into meat-like products that look great as a result of clever and unprincipled marketing strategies. When you mortgage your artificially devalued farm at high interest rates in order to buy meat, you consume the poisoned material and develop terminal illnesses because there is no health care plan to treat you. The corporate management uses your purchase price to acquire THEIR meat from cows raised 'naturally' on tree-free rain forest land outside of the country where labor and resources are cheap.

--------------------------------------------------
Find more great humor at http://looop.net/funnies/


But the reality isn't this funny.

Stonor

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Date: Sun, May 07, 2000 at 03:40:49 (GMT)
From: Gilead
Email: None
To: Susan
Subject: Read Hassan's book
Message:
Susan,
wouldn't the founders of every world religion, Jesus, Krishna, Muhammad, Buddha, etc., have been considered cult leaders by Hassan, the Expert on Cults?
Would it have been OK in your view, for someone to grap the apostles against their will, and do the deprogramming crimes on them? Are you familiar with deprogramming, and do you consider that a freedom of thought technique, to take somebody, kidnap them illegally, and then use force to 'make' them say the right things? I know in the POW camps they also did that to prisoners.
I also know that there were many fakes who were cult leaders. But somewhere in the Bible, I think its in Acts, one of the Jewish leaders said that they should leave the Christians alone, because if they are false, they will be exposed like other false movements in due time. Jimmy Swaggart, Maharaji, and others, have in due time been exposed, as modern day examples.
You really seem to set Hassan up on some pedestal as your Authority on cults.
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Date: Sun, May 07, 2000 at 04:02:58 (GMT)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: Gilead
Subject: Read Hassan's book
Message:
No, I read his book, and NO he does not think that.

Listen Gill head, I never put anyone on a pedestal. I was burned on that at a young age by a fat dude sitting under a swan with a crown on.

Steve Hassan is just a guy who used to be a moonie who has gone to the effort of writing a lot on the issue. I do not worship him.

He is also AGAINST deprogramming people against their will. If you had read his book, you would know that. Instead, you just think you can intuit what the guy thinks.

You are talking about things you know nothing about with absolute certainty.

You are frequently wrong, but never in doubt.


A quality that drives me insane in a person.

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Date: Sun, May 07, 2000 at 04:17:56 (GMT)
From: Gilead
Email: None
To: Susan
Subject: Read Hassan's book
Message:
I am far from knowing all of the facts about anything. But I have been known to have the courage to dissent with a 'clique' opinion. I'm glad that Hassan is against forced deprogramming. I heard that in the past, he wasn't. I guess I throw my intellectual punches strongly, but thats because I was just trying to wake you, and others, up to the bigger picture. The rulers of a regime, including this country, use the religious and political propaganda machines to support their claim to power. They used lies and deception, assasinations, state terrorism, etc., to back up the lie. Bro. Muammar Al Qathafi has saved, in Tripoli, his bombed residence for all to see. It was done brutally by the U.S. regime, and his daughter was murdered in that bombing. State terrorism. I know that anyone who stands up to the corrupt Pharoahs of this world takes a risk, but for justice to ever prevail, we must stand up for truth, regardless of what people may think of us. I'm glad for people like Harriet Ross Tubman, John Brown, and Chief Joseph, for their dignity in standing for what was right, regardless of the lies that surrounded them.
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Date: Sun, May 07, 2000 at 03:53:11 (GMT)
From: Gilead Ji
Email: None
To: Susan?
Subject: Susan, Where Are You?
Message:
any thoughts on my writing above?
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Date: Sun, May 07, 2000 at 03:57:52 (GMT)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: Gilead Ji
Subject: Susan, Where Are You?
Message:
I was off surfing my travel plans.

I am not sure about talking to you because I am not sure you really are thinking about what you are saying in a rational way.

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Date: Sun, May 07, 2000 at 04:10:32 (GMT)
From: Gilead
Email: 'the Idol Breaker'
To: Susan
Subject: Susan, What Kind of Pompous Arrogance Is That?
Message:
I wonder if the logic of my examples are too tough for you to answer in a rational, methodical manner? Your labelling of me and others in an all or none manner, seems irrational. Please, please,try to think for yourself, without referring to Hassan, or anyone else.
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Date: Sun, May 07, 2000 at 04:19:32 (GMT)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: Gilead
Subject: Pot calling the kettle black!
Message:
God, you are not worth the effort.

Bye.

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Date: Sun, May 07, 2000 at 04:30:09 (GMT)
From: Gilead
Email: None
To: Susan
Subject: Goodbye Susan, but then, you did get back with me.
Message:
I hear you, but then, you did get back again on my other thread. So my topics must have your interest after all. Anyway, take care of yourself, and remember, I'm fallible, like you, and everybody else, and do make mistakes. I don't think I'm a dummy though, and as long as I get you thinking, thats all that matters. Even if you get a little angry for a while.
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Date: Sun, May 07, 2000 at 07:03:19 (GMT)
From: The expert witness
Email: None
To: Gilead
Subject: Definitions of the word 'cult'
Message:
Yes it's good to broaden the view a bit tho it can be a bit challenging sometimes, but only in the sense of lifting ones head out of the sand and being upset by what one actually sees because it disturbs a previously comfortable viewpoint.
It is interesting to look at the history of the public perception of 'cults'.
The bare fact seems to be is that it is a word that can be defined any which way depending on the agenda of the definer, but if one goes back to pre 1930's one finds that the c word has no sinister connotations whatsoever even tho the world had plenty of sinister groups at that time as at every time in history.

What you find is that the Nazi party in Germany (1930's) became the first to promote in the public mind the fear of the 'cult'.
this, of course gradually built up to the point by the time the war started where anyone who was found to be a 'cult' member was imprisioned and/or executed. Now why was this?
Was the Nazi party so concerned it's citizens that it did not want them to risk making 'wrong' choices? Did the Hitler and co want to protect the citizens?
The answer becomes clear when one looks at the background to the Nazi movement (which, incidentally was seen as the best thing since German beer by the ordinary citizen.)
Basically the Nazis where a 'cult' themselves according to negative definitions and their source of power was partly the strenghth of will and the heavy use of Black Magic as practiced by every single SS officer.
Human sacrifice was part of the menu - even to the point of ceremonies which included ritually beheading of of their own every so often and using the head for 'channeling' entities.

Anyway, certain other factions were aware of this and telling this to those ordinary people that would listen. Rudolf Steiner being a prime example, who, as a result became defined by Hitler as the number one enemy of the people and the order was put out to get him dead by any means. He escaped the country by a hairs breadth.
So basically, Hitlers Germany tended to demonise anyone who did not fall into the category of willing slave/zomby for the Nazi party and was part of any organised group, as being a member of a 'cult' and the ordinary German should be afraid of them.
Whereas , the reality of what was going on was that the powers the be were part of a most horrendous cult themselves, and they wished to bring the masses into willing obediance and trust in their leaders. Thus alternative cults and power centers were crushed that might challenge mainstream Germany at that time.
The more I look at this, the more I see that that kind of mentallity was not unique to Nazi Germany. It exists today just as strongly behind the world power centers today. The outer presentation constntly changes to appeal to the people of the time, but it seems there is no escape from the fact that the world power structures are totally dominated by networks of cults who all seem to be after the same thing ie. total domination , power and control. An obvious visible symbol of this of course is the Cult Of The All Seeing Eye as represented on the dollar bill -
so to summarise: Those who seek to rescue us from 'cults' also have their agendas and it is probably more for their benefit than ours.

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Date: Mon, May 08, 2000 at 02:08:10 (GMT)
From: Gilead
Email: None
To: The expert witness
Subject: Definitions of the word 'cult'
Message:
So true, so true. thanks for that insight into history. that's what I meant also, when saying about the extreme right wing ideology (FASCISTS would be more blunt!) that seems to be behind much of the anti-cult movement.
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Date: Sun, May 07, 2000 at 22:06:12 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: The expert witness
Subject: Is there a solution to your conclusion?
Message:
I've enjoyed reading your post, as much as one can enjoy that kind of subject matter. The thinking and content are unusual and intriguing. I've discussed this 'group mind' aspect before, and one book I've been reading describes it as an egregore, using the type of example you did.

so to summarise: Those who seek to rescue us from 'cults' also have their agendas and it is probably more for their benefit than ours.

Well yes, but then what do you suggest, and in the case of m, I think it's quite clear that you're much better out. Check my post to Elaine up above if you want, or many other people, posts and pages documenting m's 'trips.' (And does m have a deal with airlines and hotels?

so to summarise: Those who seek to rescue us from 'cults' also have their agendas and it is probably more for their benefit than ours.

And I have to add this, I hope AJW doesn't mind, it's from his journey (all of it well worth reading, like many others):

A couple of years ago, my youngest son, a bright, broad minded 18 year old at the time, was
down in Brighton for a party. He knew Maharaji was attending a premie programme. He was
vaguely interested in receiving Knowledge and had attended a small 'aspirant event' with
Maharaji the previous year. He decided to bring three of his mates along to the premie event.
He told them, 'When you go in, if they ask if you've got' knowledge', say, 'Yes''.

They hated the videos and were horrified by the 'Maharaji worship'. When I asked him what
he thought about it all, he lowered his voice, and said gently, so I wouldn't take it the wrong
way, 'You know those old black and white films of Hitler.. and all those people in front of
him. It sort of reminded me of that.'

I suppose his mind wasn't ready for such a high vibration. Without knowledge, he couldn't
handle it. His ego reacted and rebelled against the proximity of the creator. As he was only
eighteen, and knew little of 20th Century history, the association with the Nazis is of no
significance.

And I'm not crazy about irregular anonymous posters, but what did you think of G's post on quantum metaphysics?

Stonor

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