Forum V: Archive
Compiled: Sun, Jun 11, 2000 at 15:35:21 (GMT)
From: May 30, 2000 To: Jun 08, 2000 Page: 5 Of: 5


Elaine -:- If you wanted to go to a class lead by Werner E. -:- Wed, May 31, 2000 at 04:39:43 (GMT)
__ cq -:- If you wanted to use your own search engine ... -:- Wed, May 31, 2000 at 18:51:47 (GMT)
__ __ Elaine -:- Thanks, cq -:- Thurs, Jun 01, 2000 at 01:15:13 (GMT)
__ Paul -:- I believe the alleged charges were child -:- Wed, May 31, 2000 at 15:05:10 (GMT)
__ __ Jim -:- My cousin's one of their big shots -:- Wed, May 31, 2000 at 16:07:10 (GMT)
__ __ __ Deputy Dog -:- Are you afraid to do the training Jim? (nt) -:- Wed, May 31, 2000 at 21:20:01 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ G -:- Feeling pressured to recruit? -:- Thurs, Jun 01, 2000 at 01:55:50 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Deputy Dog -:- Feeling pressured to recruit? -:- Thurs, Jun 01, 2000 at 03:04:42 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ oh yeah right -:- go from one brainwash to another -:- Fri, Jun 02, 2000 at 23:37:40 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ G -:- pressure tactics -:- Fri, Jun 02, 2000 at 02:42:52 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Jim -:- Shut up, you idiot -- just go fuck yourself -:- Thurs, Jun 01, 2000 at 01:15:17 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Deputy Dog -:- Shut up, you idiot -- just go fuck yourself??????? -:- Thurs, Jun 01, 2000 at 02:55:00 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Oh, I see. You want to play dumb, is that it? -:- Thurs, Jun 01, 2000 at 03:20:54 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Deputy Dog -:- Oh, I see. You want to play dumb, is that it? -:- Thurs, Jun 01, 2000 at 04:22:03 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- You still don't get it? What a moron! -:- Thurs, Jun 01, 2000 at 16:27:38 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Deputy Dog -:- I still get it? What a man! -:- Fri, Jun 02, 2000 at 02:14:35 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- No, you get nothing ... you're a dullard -:- Fri, Jun 02, 2000 at 03:28:49 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Katie -:- Dep and Jim - no mention has been made of libel! -:- Fri, Jun 02, 2000 at 11:41:08 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Deputy Dog -:- Thanks Katie - good news -:- Fri, Jun 02, 2000 at 13:37:35 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- You are a coward, Dog -- plain and simple -:- Fri, Jun 02, 2000 at 15:35:37 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Deputy Dog -:- If I was a coward I would not be posting!!!!!!!!!! -:- Sat, Jun 03, 2000 at 05:25:32 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Aren't you ashamed to admit this? -:- Sat, Jun 03, 2000 at 17:27:42 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Deputy Dog -:- I'd be ashamed if I didn't . . . -:- Sat, Jun 03, 2000 at 18:34:42 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- That's nbot what I asked you! (nt) -:- Sat, Jun 03, 2000 at 19:31:55 (GMT)
__ __ __ Paul -:- I read a paper by some professor -:- Wed, May 31, 2000 at 17:38:39 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Joe -:- I read a paper by some professor -:- Wed, May 31, 2000 at 18:16:34 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Helen -:- The you can't pee cult!! -:- Wed, May 31, 2000 at 21:06:42 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- they are REALLY sneaky these days -:- Wed, May 31, 2000 at 21:36:50 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Helen -:- they are REALLY sneaky these days -:- Thurs, Jun 01, 2000 at 00:44:54 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- I hate it. I'm hoping ... -:- Thurs, Jun 01, 2000 at 01:17:30 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Joe -:- Good for you, Selene, but it must have been hard -:- Fri, Jun 02, 2000 at 17:27:46 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- thanks Joe, it felt good to tell that story -:- Fri, Jun 02, 2000 at 19:16:41 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Helen -:- I hate it. I'm hoping (ot)... -:- Thurs, Jun 01, 2000 at 20:39:00 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- thanks for letting me get this out -:- Fri, Jun 02, 2000 at 02:46:10 (GMT)
__ Runamok -:- i dunno but. -:- Wed, May 31, 2000 at 07:14:21 (GMT)
__ Selene -:- last I heard he was deported -:- Wed, May 31, 2000 at 04:49:15 (GMT)
__ __ Elaine -:- Thanks to all -:- Wed, May 31, 2000 at 15:24:46 (GMT)

bill burke -:- The lord gets amnesia -:- Wed, May 31, 2000 at 03:09:57 (GMT)
__ AJW -:- The lord is confused -:- Wed, May 31, 2000 at 18:58:47 (GMT)
__ Selene -:- He let ALL his dumb pam's and mahatma's and -:- Wed, May 31, 2000 at 03:20:46 (GMT)
__ __ bb -:- He let ALL his dumb pam's and mahatma's and -:- Wed, May 31, 2000 at 03:24:29 (GMT)
__ __ __ Selene -:- I think Monmot knows when and where - Monmot?? -:- Wed, May 31, 2000 at 03:27:03 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Monmot At Your Service -:- June 12 at Copley Theatre 225 Clarendon Street -:- Wed, May 31, 2000 at 03:34:24 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ jondon -:- June 12 at Copley Theatre 225 Clarendon Street -:- Wed, May 31, 2000 at 11:30:28 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ bb -:- June 12 at Copley Theatre 225 Clarendon Street -:- Thurs, Jun 01, 2000 at 02:09:15 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- thanks !! if I'd go myself but.. -:- Wed, May 31, 2000 at 03:49:54 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Monmot -:- Did you grow up there? -:- Wed, May 31, 2000 at 03:52:12 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- spent my arrested development in western Mass -:- Wed, May 31, 2000 at 03:53:00 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Monmot -:- I did my time in Somerville/Cambridge -:- Wed, May 31, 2000 at 03:58:05 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ bb -:- June 12 at Copley Theatre 225 Clarendon Street -:- Wed, May 31, 2000 at 03:46:39 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Monmot -:- June 12 at Copley Theatre 225 Clarendon Street -:- Wed, May 31, 2000 at 03:54:05 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ bb -:- June 12 at Copley Theatre 225 Clarendon Street -:- Wed, May 31, 2000 at 04:06:57 (GMT)
__ bb -:- when and where is that boston event. -:- Wed, May 31, 2000 at 03:14:00 (GMT)
__ __ Jean-Michel -:- It's here, as lots of other info !!!!!!! -:- Wed, May 31, 2000 at 03:26:46 (GMT)
__ __ __ Look the wording! -:- Money please!!! -:- Wed, May 31, 2000 at 08:03:55 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Elaine -:- Hiding again,eh? -:- Wed, May 31, 2000 at 16:06:08 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ I give you hiding -:- I'll follow you -:- Wed, May 31, 2000 at 17:56:07 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Elaine -:- And BTW -:- Thurs, Jun 01, 2000 at 17:53:39 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Elaine -:- I'll follow you -:- Wed, May 31, 2000 at 18:30:02 (GMT)
__ __ __ bb -:- It's here, as lots of other info !!!!!!! -:- Wed, May 31, 2000 at 03:34:59 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Helen -:- It's here, as lots of other info !!!!!!! -:- Thurs, Jun 01, 2000 at 00:55:05 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Jean-Michel -:- No my private photographer was too scared!! (nt) -:- Thurs, Jun 01, 2000 at 06:57:11 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Selene -:- I love this place. bb where did you read this -:- Wed, May 31, 2000 at 03:37:23 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ bb -:- I love this place. bb where did you read this -:- Wed, May 31, 2000 at 03:58:48 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Joe -:- If you don't like knowledge, just leave it.... -:- Wed, May 31, 2000 at 17:20:37 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ bb -:- If you don't like knowledge, just leave it.... -:- Thurs, Jun 01, 2000 at 02:03:46 (GMT)

Hector -:- Definition of a cult -:- Wed, May 31, 2000 at 02:57:31 (GMT)
__ AJW -:- Very Good Hector.... -:- Wed, May 31, 2000 at 19:16:37 (GMT)
__ Jim -:- On no, not this tripe again! -:- Wed, May 31, 2000 at 03:28:07 (GMT)
__ __ O -:- More tripe -:- Wed, May 31, 2000 at 23:13:18 (GMT)
__ __ __ Daneane -:- More tripe -:- Thurs, Jun 01, 2000 at 05:27:35 (GMT)
__ __ __ Jim -:- What cult?? You've got to be fucking kidding! -:- Thurs, Jun 01, 2000 at 01:06:59 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ O -:- What cult?? Hey stop your cussing! -:- Thurs, Jun 01, 2000 at 21:53:17 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ AJW -:- 5 Commandments -:- Sat, Jun 03, 2000 at 12:00:45 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Elaine -:- 5 Commandments -:- Sat, Jun 03, 2000 at 17:23:21 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ AJW -:- Doubting an experience -:- Sun, Jun 04, 2000 at 21:06:22 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Elaine -:- Doubting an experience -:- Sun, Jun 04, 2000 at 21:25:00 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- 5 Commandments -:- Sat, Jun 03, 2000 at 22:28:39 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Elaine -:- 5 Commandments -:- Sun, Jun 04, 2000 at 03:53:14 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Gerry -:- 5 Commandments -:- Sun, Jun 04, 2000 at 15:28:37 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Elaine -:- Sorry about above name mix - E to Gerry (nt -:- Sun, Jun 04, 2000 at 15:31:05 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- You're being stupid (Are you a premie by chance?) -:- Fri, Jun 02, 2000 at 00:46:20 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ O -:- No just a premie. -:- Fri, Jun 02, 2000 at 01:09:11 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Nigel -:- Selective Memory, O..? -:- Fri, Jun 02, 2000 at 04:28:55 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Elaine -:- No just a premie. -:- Fri, Jun 02, 2000 at 01:22:06 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Fuck you both -- yes, you, Elaine -:- Fri, Jun 02, 2000 at 03:19:30 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Katie -:- Bad Taste - the ultimate sin -:- Sat, Jun 03, 2000 at 01:41:58 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Elaine -:- Eye of the beholder... -:- Sat, Jun 03, 2000 at 14:45:02 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ O -:- What an angry man you are! -:- Fri, Jun 02, 2000 at 16:46:52 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- I've got a better idea -:- Sat, Jun 03, 2000 at 00:50:25 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Elaine -:- Fuck you both -- yes, you, Elaine -:- Fri, Jun 02, 2000 at 16:21:10 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Bullshit, Elaine -:- Fri, Jun 02, 2000 at 16:24:17 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Elaine -:- Bullshit, Elaine -:- Fri, Jun 02, 2000 at 16:50:04 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Slippery Elaine, huh? -:- Sat, Jun 03, 2000 at 01:02:43 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Elaine -:- Slippery Elaine, huh? -:- Sat, Jun 03, 2000 at 14:54:59 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- So now you admit it? -:- Sat, Jun 03, 2000 at 18:12:12 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ G -:- Encouraging G? -:- Sun, Jun 04, 2000 at 03:11:48 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Sorry, all the masks get confusing sometimes -:- Sun, Jun 04, 2000 at 05:49:25 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ G -:- That's ok -:- Sun, Jun 04, 2000 at 19:59:15 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- one thing G -:- Mon, Jun 05, 2000 at 03:06:37 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ G -:- at work -:- Mon, Jun 05, 2000 at 04:10:31 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- yeah I do understand -:- Mon, Jun 05, 2000 at 05:17:07 (GMT)
__ __ __ ged -:- More tripe -:- Wed, May 31, 2000 at 23:40:16 (GMT)

A Jewel from raina -:- Almost lost!! Simply irrestible! -:- Wed, May 31, 2000 at 01:12:49 (GMT)
__ raina -:- FA? are posters allowed to use other's names? -:- Wed, May 31, 2000 at 17:34:13 (GMT)
__ __ ged -:- Raina , the answer to your salvation lies here -:- Wed, May 31, 2000 at 23:20:27 (GMT)
__ __ AJW -:- FA? are posters allowed to use other's names? -:- Wed, May 31, 2000 at 19:30:34 (GMT)
__ __ __ this from AJW? -:- FA? are posters allowed to use other's names? -:- Thurs, Jun 01, 2000 at 01:40:42 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ (Sir) David -:- I agree with you there, Raina -:- Thurs, Jun 01, 2000 at 12:23:29 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ AJW -:- Yeah Dave, a storm in a teaspoon. (nt) -:- Fri, Jun 02, 2000 at 23:31:31 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ AJW -:- FA? are posters allowed to use other's names? -:- Thurs, Jun 01, 2000 at 10:50:37 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Jim -:- Raina, you are one sick little bird, aren't you? -:- Thurs, Jun 01, 2000 at 01:55:03 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ raina -:- tell us! of 'the middle of a long, serious trial!' -:- Thurs, Jun 01, 2000 at 03:48:53 (GMT)
__ __ cq -:- FA? are posters allowed to use other's names? -:- Wed, May 31, 2000 at 18:44:30 (GMT)
__ __ __ raina -:- FA? are posters allowed to use other's names? -:- Thurs, Jun 01, 2000 at 01:25:35 (GMT)
__ Roger eDrek -:- Jim, another person thinking about your health -:- Wed, May 31, 2000 at 01:38:56 (GMT)
__ __ Zelda -:- whats the problem Jim?- seems coherent to me -:- Wed, May 31, 2000 at 02:59:08 (GMT)
__ Selene -:- Jim? is this you? are you this bored and -:- Wed, May 31, 2000 at 01:21:05 (GMT)
__ __ Jim -:- No, I've got better stuff to do -:- Wed, May 31, 2000 at 01:46:04 (GMT)
__ __ __ Selene -:- I'm too busy will have to pass -:- Wed, May 31, 2000 at 01:51:48 (GMT)

jondon -:- Howie Carr update -:- Tues, May 30, 2000 at 22:27:31 (GMT)
__ Zelda -:- Howie Carr update -:- Tues, May 30, 2000 at 23:56:58 (GMT)
__ Joe -:- Who is Howie Carr? -:- Tues, May 30, 2000 at 23:53:20 (GMT)
__ __ jondon -:- Who is Howie Carr? -:- Wed, May 31, 2000 at 02:11:48 (GMT)
__ __ Monmot -:- Who is Howie Carr? -:- Wed, May 31, 2000 at 01:02:34 (GMT)
__ Elaine -:- Howie Carr update -:- Tues, May 30, 2000 at 23:39:05 (GMT)


Date: Wed, May 31, 2000 at 04:39:43 (GMT)
From: Elaine
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: If you wanted to go to a class lead by Werner E.
Message:
Erhart (or one of his people) because there was actually something you heard was of interest and value ---but then heard he was in real life a wife or child batterer or both --- would you still go?
Why or why not?

An exe told me the above about him. Have no idea if it's true.Any info on that?

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Date: Wed, May 31, 2000 at 18:51:47 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Elaine
Subject: If you wanted to use your own search engine ...
Message:
More about the post-EST Forum here: http://rickross.com/groups/landmark.html

I can recommend the articles: 'Why We Love Gurus' and ''The Con-Forumists'

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Date: Thurs, Jun 01, 2000 at 01:15:13 (GMT)
From: Elaine
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: Thanks, cq
Message:
tkx
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Date: Wed, May 31, 2000 at 15:05:10 (GMT)
From: Paul
Email: None
To: Elaine
Subject: I believe the alleged charges were child
Message:
molestation and wife beating. There's some interesting history of them and Werner(aka John Paul Rosenberg-failed used car salesman, who ripped off ideas from Scientology and others to form EST) on the net. The 'Forum' is still going strong, peddling the same slimy, new age EST bullshit, only in glossy new wrappings. They now have a 'Communication Technology' They've managed to promote themselves in the corporate world as providing 'Leadership Training.' A VP in my organization attempted to get them in as as such.(she failed). They are very much a cult that sucks people in and keeps them there as they pay for more and more advanced training.
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Date: Wed, May 31, 2000 at 16:07:10 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Paul
Subject: My cousin's one of their big shots
Message:
Yeah, I've got this real take-charge, superwoman of a cousin in Seattle who's one of their mucky-mucks. Wealthy as hell. At my mom's wedding this winter I got into a small, friendly argument with her husband over the issue of whether or not Erhard is / was a cult leader. Guess which side I took. That's right, the same one as their teenage daughter.
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Date: Wed, May 31, 2000 at 21:20:01 (GMT)
From: Deputy Dog
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Are you afraid to do the training Jim? (nt)
Message:
Are people who like Seinfeld members of a cult?
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Date: Thurs, Jun 01, 2000 at 01:55:50 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: Deputy Dog
Subject: Feeling pressured to recruit?
Message:
You are exhibiting typical EST behaviour as described in posts below.
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Date: Thurs, Jun 01, 2000 at 03:04:42 (GMT)
From: Deputy Dog
Email: None
To: G
Subject: Feeling pressured to recruit?
Message:
G,

No, I don't feel pressured to recruit. I fact I found the pressure tactics to enroll kind of revolting. The course (now called the Forum not est) is definitely worth the time and money though.

Ex-es struggling to get their lives together, could definitely benefit from the Forum, IMO.

-- Dogg

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Date: Fri, Jun 02, 2000 at 23:37:40 (GMT)
From: oh yeah right
Email: None
To: Deputy Dog
Subject: go from one brainwash to another
Message:
very healthy indeed
no thanks!
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Date: Fri, Jun 02, 2000 at 02:42:52 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: Deputy Dog
Subject: pressure tactics
Message:
...I found the pressure tactics to enroll kind of revolting.

So did I, and that's one reason I didn't. Besides that, it costs way too much money to be told what? What do you actually learn? If you understand it, give me a synopsis. If you can't give me one, perhaps you didn't learn much. I went to one into lecture, and observed the behaviour of some premies that were into it. What I heard was:

. You don't know what you don't know.
. You should confront people with your negative feelings about them.
. You should recruit people to join the Forum. (EST)
. You should give us Forum honchos your money.

Care to add to that list?

Let's consider 'You don't know what you don't know.' Ok, there are things that I don't even know that I don't know. I agree with that. It's good to recognise that I'm not a know-it-all, in fact very far from it. But what do they mean by that? Why are they saying this?

definitely worth the time and money

Explain why. I won't consider 'Take the course and find out.' as an answer. State exactly what you learned and what benefit you gained.

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Date: Thurs, Jun 01, 2000 at 01:15:17 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Deputy Dog
Subject: Shut up, you idiot -- just go fuck yourself
Message:
Better still, go fuck your fat, greasy pig guru up the ass, will you? Really, Dog, you disgust me. I ask you a simple, straightforward question -- what do you think of Maharaji's attempt to shut down the ex-premie internet presence -- and all you can say is that everyone's got a right to go to court. You're a cowardly, stupid jerk, aren't you? AS IF that's an answer! I was asking you to actually stand up and speak out like a real human being instead of worm for a change. Say what you think is right and wrong and why. But that's beyond you, isn't it? Fuck off.
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Date: Thurs, Jun 01, 2000 at 02:55:00 (GMT)
From: Deputy Dog
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Shut up, you idiot -- just go fuck yourself???????
Message:
Better still, go fuck your fat, greasy pig guru up the ass, will you? Really, Dog, you disgust me.

Actually Jim, I find this kind of talk disgusting.

I ask you a simple, straightforward question -- what do you think of Maharaji's attempt to shut down the ex-premie internet presence -- and all you can say is that everyone's got a right to go to court.

Yeah, everyone has a right to legal recourse! That's right Jim, I actually believe that. You are the lawyer aren't you? You don't believe that? You don't believe in the legal system?

You're a cowardly, stupid jerk, aren't you? AS IF that's an answer! I was asking you to actually stand up and speak out like a real human being instead of worm for a change. Say what you think is right and wrong and why. But that's beyond you, isn't it? Fuck off.

I'm a cowardly stupid jerk and an idiot for believing that laws should be followed? I'm speaking like a worm because I believe in jurisprudence?

Sheesh, maybe I should fuck off.

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Date: Thurs, Jun 01, 2000 at 03:20:54 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Deputy Dog
Subject: Oh, I see. You want to play dumb, is that it?
Message:
Who are you trying to fool anyway? Certainly no one here, I'm sure. The legal right to sue is different than the moral authority to do so. Everyone knows that Maharaji, like anyone anywhere in the western world and many points beyond, can file a claim against someone. The question -- AS YOU WELL KNOW -- was asking for your opinion on the ethics of him doing so. But you knew that. Don't pretend otherwise. So you're just jerking my chain. Again, just go fuck off, will you? Really, it disgusts me to see such moral evasion and cowardice.
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Date: Thurs, Jun 01, 2000 at 04:22:03 (GMT)
From: Deputy Dog
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Oh, I see. You want to play dumb, is that it?
Message:
Jim,

If M feels that you have been libeling him he has the legal right to see you punished. We are talking about the law here, not morality.

My thinking this way means I'm a coward? Get real! You are being far too emotional here Jim.

And what the fuck has morality got to do with it! You and I both know that the guy with the most lawyers wins. Ask OJ!

--Dogg

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Date: Thurs, Jun 01, 2000 at 16:27:38 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Deputy Dog
Subject: You still don't get it? What a moron!
Message:
What do you mean, 'we're talking about the law, not morality'?! My question was all about morality, the law, the whole damned picture. There was no reason for you to think otherwise. I wasn't asking you your 'legal' opinion, for god's sake! I was indeed asking for your 'moral' judgement. And you are not only too chickenshit to go there, you're too afraid to even admit you understood the question.

Anyway, now that we've straightened out that little 'confusion, I'll ask you again: what do you think about Maharaji's efforts to suppress the ex-premie internet presence? (Training wheels --Is he morally justified in doing so? Why do you think what you think? What are your reasons?)

Please answer with some substance this time.

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Date: Fri, Jun 02, 2000 at 02:14:35 (GMT)
From: Deputy Dog
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: I still get it? What a man!
Message:
What do you mean, 'we're talking about the law, not morality'?! My question was all about morality, the law, the whole damned picture. There was no reason for you to think otherwise.

First off Jim I'm glad you're feeling better. Second, morality is subjective. We are not an Isalmic culture where law and morality are combined. As you know in Western culture there is a separation of church and state. That was reason enough for me to think otherwise.

I wasn't asking you your 'legal' opinion, for god's sake! I was indeed asking for your 'moral' judgement. And you are not only too chickenshit to go there, you're too afraid to even admit you understood the question.

OK James, my good man, I'll go there. I still don't know if it's a moral judgement, but if someone were constantly libelling or slandering me, if someone was constantly villifying, maligning, discrediting, defaming, and reviling me, I would probably seek legal recourse to shut them up. Wouldn't you?

Anyway, now that we've straightened out that little confusion, I'll ask you again: what do you think about Maharaji's efforts to suppress the ex-premie internet presence?

IMO if you are breaking the law, and libel can be proved, yes, he is justified in his efforts to suppress the ex-premie internet presence. If the law applies to one person it should apply to everyone.

Is he morally justified in doing so? Why do you think what you think? What are your reasons?)

Again I see it as a legal issue not a moral one. If he were to appeal to the Pope it would be moral issue, if he were to appeal to a judge it would be a legal issue.

If someone attacked you on the street with a knife and you defended yourself, would that be a moral issue or would it be a question of survival, i.e. a worldly issue? We all have a legal right to walk on the street and live our lives free of harrassment and violence. Everyone, including M.

Please answer with some substance this time.

You know much more about law than I do, so I won't pretend to know more. If M does force you guys off the net or a least curtails your attacks on him, the issue would be settled in a court of law wouldn't it? Not a church or a synagogue. So to me it is a legal issue and a matter of survival. I hope my answers meet with your approval.

-- Your most humble Deputy Dog

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Date: Fri, Jun 02, 2000 at 03:28:49 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Deputy Dog
Subject: No, you get nothing ... you're a dullard
Message:
What you forgot to mention, fool, are the following small points:

1) Maharaji owes us some major explanations for a few things. Maybe not you so much but then you were only a marginal premie anyway. I'm talking about the people that actually trusted him, tried to surrender their mother-fucking lives to him. You didn't ahve the guts then to face what you thought was the trtuh; you don't now either. Nothing's changed in that respect.

2) Maharaji has stonewalled every last effort to draw him into some form of responsible communication. I'm not talking about angry posts, I'm talking abotu respectful, heart-felt letters, calls, you name it. The asshole that he is only opens envelopes with money inside.

3) I dare you to separate what you think is untrue and libellous here from what isn't. The fact is, even if some of what's said here is false, most isn't. Hey, how are we to know what's what? The castle gates are up, remember? Besides, most of it's true and it's the true stuff more than anything that is so absolutely damaging to this creep.

3)

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Date: Fri, Jun 02, 2000 at 11:41:08 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Jim and DD
Subject: Dep and Jim - no mention has been made of libel!
Message:
...as yet, anyway. Apparently Maharaji has hired lawyers to protect his 'copywrited material' and 'religious texts', not his reputation.
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Date: Fri, Jun 02, 2000 at 13:37:35 (GMT)
From: Deputy Dog
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: Thanks Katie - good news
Message:
So Jim won't be spending any time in the slammer then?
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Date: Fri, Jun 02, 2000 at 15:35:37 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Deputy Dog
Subject: You are a coward, Dog -- plain and simple
Message:
Think about it. You've settled yourself under this ugly cult master who you're afraid to talk about without a disguise. You can't question him -- you just proved that in spades, asshole! -- you can't even look at him directly. You're just kind of eencamped at his feet, so to speak. He doesn't know who you are and you're afraid to look at who he really is.

No, you could never risk any sort of real-world conflict with him. You're not even a real person. You're just 'Deputy Dog' - ha ha ha ha! You joke about Maharaji trying to 'get' me but at least I'm not scared of talking about him in public, am I? Just look at yourself, will you? How pathetic is this?

Let me ask you something, Dog: if Maharaji ever does come after me personally, do you mind if I 'out' you and tell the world who Deputy Dog is? Just for fun, huh? Oh yeah, I know how wonderfully sacred your anonymity is here but I'll tell you something: there's no way in the world I'm going to let that fucker attack me and watch a cowradly jerk like you laugh comfortably in the safety of your cartoon character disguise. That would be too much. Believe me.

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Date: Sat, Jun 03, 2000 at 05:25:32 (GMT)
From: Deputy Dog
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: If I was a coward I would not be posting!!!!!!!!!!
Message:
Jim,

Your anger and paranoia amaze me. You really are taking this seriously. You said,

Think about it. You've settled yourself under this ugly cult master who you're afraid to talk about without a disguise. You can't question him -- you just proved that in spades, asshole! -- you can't even look at him directly. You're just kind of eencamped at his feet, so to speak. He doesn't know who you are and you're afraid to look at who he really is.

First off, I don't get this at all. I'm just an ordinary guy just trying to get by, the only difference between me and the average Joe is that I appreciate the gift of Knowledge. I'm not 'settled' under anyone except myself, and I have questionned Maharaji.

In fact have been checking this site out for more than a year, reading all the criticisms, all the comments, all your criticisms. You don't think I've had doubts?

The phrase encamped at his feet is so bizarre and 70s I can't relate to it at all. In fact I couldn't even relate to that kind of imagery in the 70s. I live my life as best as I can. I practice and value K but can go for weeks without thinking about M. Can you?

No, you could never risk any sort of real-world conflict with him. You're not even a real person. You're just 'Deputy Dog' - ha ha ha ha! You joke about Maharaji trying to 'get' me but at least I'm not scared of talking about him in public, am I? Just look at yourself, will you? How pathetic is this?

I choose to keep my identity secret because M has asked people not to visit this site and I don't want my family members embarrassed at programs. I hope I don't have to explain this again.

Let me ask you something, Dog: if Maharaji ever does come after me personally, do you mind if I 'out' you and tell the world who Deputy Dog is? Just for fun, huh? Oh yeah, I know how wonderfully sacred your anonymity is here but I'll tell you something: there's no way in the world I'm going to let that fucker attack me and watch a cowradly jerk like you laugh comfortably in the safety of your cartoon character disguise. That would be too much. Believe me.

If Maharaji attacked you do you think I'd be laughing? Have I ever said that you have no right to attack M? I believe in free speech and informed choices, and believe me Jim, you have a right to be on the Internet.

We all have a right to express our feelings. I just don't like it when you make nasty comments.

If you have committed libel against M and are charged and found guilty then that is just the law. You shouldn't have stepped over that line. As a lawyer you should have known better.

Do you honestly think that I can read comments from ex-premies for over a year and not feel some kind of empathy?

Here is my take. M came to the west as a young kid and had his mother and brothers desert him. Can you imagine the pressure he was under? Maybe he did start to go under, but he put his fathers picture up and did the bahkti devotional trip and it saved him.

I value Knowledge and don't really care if M has smoked a joint or had a drink. Are you prepared to accept the way I feel? Every once in a while I go to a video and always come out feeling great. I really value this.

For me meditation is a place of beauty and shelter, strength and renewal. When I practise I feel at home with myself. I want other people to have this experience, that's why I defend Knowledge and M is the man revealing it.

-- As always, Dogg

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Date: Sat, Jun 03, 2000 at 17:27:42 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Deputy Dog
Subject: Aren't you ashamed to admit this?
Message:
I choose to keep my identity secret because M has asked people not to visit this site and I don't want my family members embarrassed at programs.

I don't know. You're a grown adult, right? And this sits okay with you? Sorry, I don't get it. What's the big 'embarrassment' your family members face should it be known that you actually dare to what -- disobey? -- Maharaji? What are they going to say other than that you don't follow him blindly? And what's someone going to say to them then? That you're a 'bad premie'? Hell, I've been telling you that for months! What's new?

Really, Dog, you look like a wimpering little pooch when you talk like this. Yes, you do look cowardly. Very.

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Date: Sat, Jun 03, 2000 at 18:34:42 (GMT)
From: Deputy Dog
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: I'd be ashamed if I didn't . . .
Message:
Jim,

I'd be ashamed only if I didn't react to your stomping all over Knowledge and the people who value it. I'd be ashamed if I said nothing.

-- Dogg

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Date: Sat, Jun 03, 2000 at 19:31:55 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Deputy Dog
Subject: That's nbot what I asked you! (nt)
Message:
worm
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Date: Wed, May 31, 2000 at 17:38:39 (GMT)
From: Paul
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: I read a paper by some professor
Message:
who had done a research project on whether the Forum programs made any difference in people's behavior, etc. What he found (not surprisingly) was that while heavily involved,e.g. constanatly being told how wonderful the forum was and how great they were doing, participants thought they had made great changes. These life transforming changes somehow dissapeared when they were no longer in the cult.

They still do all the heavy handed tactics, keep people locked up for most of the weekend, tell you not to talk with people you know there, cover the windows, attempt to remove indivdual autonomy by breaking down people. They also demand (quite forcefully), on the last day, that people bring their friends and family embers to a meeting.

I did a bunch of research on them while attempting to keep them out of my organization-successfully so far. They are very slick now and how some very professional type materials. They are also bringing in alot of money.

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Date: Wed, May 31, 2000 at 18:16:34 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Paul
Subject: I read a paper by some professor
Message:
There is an offshoot of EST called 'Lifespring' (headquartered in Northern California, of course) that uses most of the same EST techniques, regarding the intensive weekend trainings, hard-sell tactics and endless, expensive, courses.

Anyhow, some years back two psychologists signed up for the course and wrote a journal article about it. Their conclusion was that the training was essentially pathological.

A lot of the stuff taught, and their comments on it, reminded me of my own cult experience as a premie. For example, there was a radically conservative view that whatever happens is what is supposed to happen, that you 'create' your own experience, and they carefully explained the group dynamics that occur in those intensive trainings. Essentially, anyone who doubts, raises too many questions, or criticizes what is going on, is not only derided by the 'leader' but the rest of the group gradually begins to pressure the recalcitrant participants to conform. Much of that goes on in M's cult as well.

It didn't really matter what the teachings were. What mattered is that people were humiliated and derided into breaking down, and then built back up again with lots of group and leader-authority reinforcement. A really nice, seemingly freeing feeling results. This is the same thing the military does in boot camp, by the way.

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Date: Wed, May 31, 2000 at 21:06:42 (GMT)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: The you can't pee cult!!
Message:
I took the ESt training I am embarrassed to say! My dad 'treated' me to it. ANd I agree with you Joe. A lot of group pressure and ridicule, humiliation. If you disagree, you are 'resisting' (well, yeah!) and not being able to pee--that was a killer--ha ha. The only good thing I got out of the training was to deprogram my dad who was so into it! My Dad, the journalist Mr. 'mean what you say and say what you mean' , had lapsed into EST-speak!! It was horrible! 'Dad, speak plain English, speak so your audience can understand you! Snap out of it, Dad!!'

DEFINITELY a cult. Lots of pressure to recruit. Lots of guilt tripping if you don't recruit: 'You aren't committed, blah blah' A total waste of money!

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Date: Wed, May 31, 2000 at 21:36:50 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Helen
Subject: they are REALLY sneaky these days
Message:
I can't PROVE it, or I suppose I could.. but the 'private' consultant hired to get the UA whipped into shape a few years back was - and this I could prove - a former EST trainer. What I can't 'prove' w/o a headache is that he is now a Forum affiliate. All I know is, our department was a 'pilot' and lucky me, our group got to be one of the chosen. I went once and that was that. It was shortly after I had started posting here. It was interesting to watch the dynamics and watch the eyes light up and get all teary. And watch the people who didn't buy it. ME for one. He of course paid attention to me for a while therefore. Hence I got the honored label of 'initiator/integrator' for the group. His associate kept telling me 'you look familiar' days later it hit me. The EST intro I went to years ago, that is where I saw those 2!!
Point of this ramble, he got our VP and close managers hooked, it got strange, they started going to his house for 'private' sessions. Dwindled down to just a few going. They ALL have left the UA since, including the President of the university who brought him on board. AND the consultant is nowhere to be found on campus. Made a lotta money though didn't you John?
Will these cults never leave me alone?? oh oh is this another
It's All About Me syndrome? Better do some gardening in the 109 temps, that'll get me all straightened out!!
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Date: Thurs, Jun 01, 2000 at 00:44:54 (GMT)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: they are REALLY sneaky these days
Message:
YUCK!! I have been on a few of those yucky staff retreats but never anything like that. SOunds wretched and good for you for not capitulating. That is too weird that you recognized them from an EST introduction.

109 degrees--that sounds wretched too! How can you stand it? (or do you like it?) I wouldn't last one year there. The heat really bothers me. DC in the summer gets really wretched, so far has been cool, I am bracing myself

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Date: Thurs, Jun 01, 2000 at 01:17:30 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Helen
Subject: I hate it. I'm hoping ...
Message:
Might an end in sight. Meaning 2 or 3 years.
Remember when we just picked up and went? Now there are things things things and people people people.
and the
sequel to the story. I fought it all. went from 'initiator/integrator' (the unspoken good title) to 'control person' (the unspoken worst title you could be given) and shunned. Lost a lot of opportunities for advancement as they gathered around this character and I made dissenting comments in meetings.

I actually spent 6 month w/o any manager, they didn't know what to do with me. Then the whole thing kind of fell apart, nothing really changed. They all left. And, I got a salary adjustment, retro compensation when the latest 'new' wave came along.
One of the good things about a huge bureaucracy. Cults have a hard time here. Just one of many transient oddball things to get in the way and crushed by the ever slowly moving machine.

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Date: Fri, Jun 02, 2000 at 17:27:46 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: Good for you, Selene, but it must have been hard
Message:
at the time to resist all the group pressure. Group pressure to conform is the essence of those cults, including Maharaji's. That's part of the reason people can be so secretive here. They fear ostracism by the 'group' which can be very cruel, despite always talking about 'love.' I have always admired people who got involved with M, but resisted it, saw through it, and walked away. I didn't do that, I think partly because I wanted acceptance and approval by the premie 'group.'
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Date: Fri, Jun 02, 2000 at 19:16:41 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: thanks Joe, it felt good to tell that story
Message:
When I come here, I focus so much on being an ex-premie, that I personalized the work thing, til it *did* hit me, what happened.
As I said, some really good people quit, after 12-15 years of being there and at very high levels in the organization.
I'm fairly sure now, in retrospect, that the consultant was involved in Landmark Forum. The thecniques the verbage all of it fit the research I have since done. And the added evidence of him and his partner being former est trainers.
At least it's over. And as for credit for resisting, it just came naturally! :) How could it not - ha!
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Date: Thurs, Jun 01, 2000 at 20:39:00 (GMT)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: I hate it. I'm hoping (ot)...
Message:
Ugh! Workplace weirdness. I am working in a company now that is refreshingly traditional--hierarchical structure and all that. I know exactly what's expected of me and when I am doing something wrong. One company I worked for had a so-called 'flat' hierarchy--what a joke that was, the hierarchy was 'flat' unless you were good friends with the boss and then you had power. I can't tell you how sick of the term 'team player' I got working there.

Anyway--yes, good thing the players in a big bureaucracy are always changing. New bosses every year! When i worked at the World Bank, the hierarchical chart changed like, every 3 months! Oy vey!

Yes, rememebr the days when we moved if we felt like it? In my single youth I moved from Grand Rapids MI to Madison WI with nothing but a trunk and a suitcase--whoo hoo, fancy free. How did we get so old and staid--oh yeah it's called marriage, kids, mortgage. The marriage part is fun, the kid part too, the mortgage sucks. You don't strike me as the 109 degrees type. I see you more in the mountains somewhere, cooler temps.

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Date: Fri, Jun 02, 2000 at 02:46:10 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Helen
Subject: thanks for letting me get this out
Message:
You know I didn't make the connection to L'mark Forum in full until after it got really weird, - the private visits to the house, etc.
by then it was already sinking down down...
and had done a LOT of damage. We lost some really good people.
I hear it happens all the time.
Strange it happened to a major university.

Well, we gave someone almost $40K for our 'A' the A in U of A..
so that puts some perspective on it I suppose.
NOT to me it doesn't though. It was painful for me to go through.
Mountains? No. Did that.
I'm more of a coastal type. I'd like to live about an hour or less from the coast. either coast. South !!!

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Date: Wed, May 31, 2000 at 07:14:21 (GMT)
From: Runamok
Email: None
To: Elaine
Subject: i dunno but.
Message:
I heard the same things from someone who had been an estie. Werner's est scene has fallen apart over the 'accusations' and he lives in Costa Rica.

I can't remember if he sold his ownership or what.

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Date: Wed, May 31, 2000 at 04:49:15 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Elaine
Subject: last I heard he was deported
Message:
but is still running the show for Landmark Forum here in the
states.
And no of course I wouldn't go. Would you?
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Date: Wed, May 31, 2000 at 15:24:46 (GMT)
From: Elaine
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: Thanks to all
Message:
Wow, I didn't even know he was still alive. Thank you for all your info. I am uninformed - I vaguely thought Erhart and est were the same - that's how little I knew!!

Selene, it isn't something I'm interested in doing. But, it is definitely an issue to think about.
Say,in the future if there were something I'd like to 'attend' once or twice to learn 'something'
or to simply 'check out' upon someone's recommendation to really help me grow in some way---anything where the founder/teacher had a questionable past,say...would I still attend??

Each situation is diff of course...It would be hard in that I wouldn't want to give money that would further support some horrible person...then there's -if he is a horrible person - is there really anything of value I could learn from his/her 'lessons' or methods.

Hmmm... seems I'd rather borrow a book the person had written.

You know, I have a difficult time seeing a movie that William Hurt is in feeling that I 'know' he is a woman abuser. Back in the 80's there was a big deal with some live in girlfriend and I think a former wife...I know others that think Woody Allen is just the worst slimeball,too.

Elaine

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Date: Wed, May 31, 2000 at 03:09:57 (GMT)
From: bill burke
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: The lord gets amnesia
Message:
Whodathunk that the ultimate ruler would feel compelled to lie so much on his own damn website.
For all the times he said the word truth in his life you would think that he would reflect some in his statements about 'himself' especially since the true self was/is his area of mastery.

Due to some maniacal impulse, I went to the lords website just now to see if there was anything to indicate growth. You be the judge. Here are his comments I suppose that are directed at...well...his lovers!

'Quite a few people wanted to see me as a figurehead. I did not want to be one and I am not one. A few others saw me as a leader, and i didnt want to be one and I am not one.'

'People through the years have tried to place me in a mold, and from the very early years I have not been able to oblidge them.'

'To this day some people see me the way they want to. After all, I guess it is rather incovenient to see things as they really are.'

'place him in a mold'? I want to place him in prison. Or 6 feet under.

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Date: Wed, May 31, 2000 at 18:58:47 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: bill burke
Subject: The lord is confused
Message:
Hi Bill,

I don't think he's got amnesia- he's just a very confused individual. (And who wouldn't be if they'd been brought up to think they were God Almighty walking around on Earth).

If you look on his website you see he still believes in the Perfect Master lineage, with himself as the current incarnation. We all know, this lineage includes every 'Master' who has ever walked the Earth, Jesus, Buddha, Mohamed etc.

Who, besides us, is going to tell him that this is all bullshit? And, as we obviously freak him out, and he hates what we're telling him so much he's trying to shut us up- he'll probably remain stuck in this fucked up, deluded state for the rest of his days.

Ah well, you win some you lose some

Anth the won some lost some

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Date: Wed, May 31, 2000 at 03:20:46 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: bill burke
Subject: He let ALL his dumb pam's and mahatma's and
Message:
all those people tell us he was Lord of the Universe.
He helped Make the LOTU video and Satguru Has Come. Uh excuse me satuguru?? Highest of all incarnate gurus?

Sat his ass in a chair and let us kiss his FEET. Sat his ass in a chair while they blithered on next to him in a microphone to a hall of thousands about how he was more than human, a direct channel of God, A GOD himself. He didn't jump up at any time over those years and say 'WAIT don't put me in a mold'
Sat right there next to 'em while they sang the songs that they later revised all the lyrics to. arragggh this stuff is so gross.
bull fucking shit!!

hi bb... isn't revisionism sickening?

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Date: Wed, May 31, 2000 at 03:24:29 (GMT)
From: bb
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: He let ALL his dumb pam's and mahatma's and
Message:
Hi Selene,
yes, sickening enough to inspire me to attend the boston event.
And not alone.
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Date: Wed, May 31, 2000 at 03:27:03 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: bb
Subject: I think Monmot knows when and where - Monmot??
Message:
Did you find out? shit that made me mad!!
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Date: Wed, May 31, 2000 at 03:34:24 (GMT)
From: Monmot At Your Service
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: June 12 at Copley Theatre 225 Clarendon Street
Message:
which is near the Prudential Center.

You must register first, which you can do starting at 8 a.m. on the day of the 'event.' You can also call 818 889 0500 to get more info.

Jondon lives in Boston, so he might have some more info which he's garnered from his roommates.

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Date: Wed, May 31, 2000 at 11:30:28 (GMT)
From: jondon
Email: None
To: Monmot At Your Service
Subject: June 12 at Copley Theatre 225 Clarendon Street
Message:
You got it right: You must register first, which you can do starting at 8 a.m. on the day of the 'event.' You can also call 818 889 0500 to get more info.

The program begins at 10:00. Eat a big breakfast as the first half may go untill 1:00pm. Second half???? Don't know....Yet.

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Date: Thurs, Jun 01, 2000 at 02:09:15 (GMT)
From: bb
Email: None
To: jondon
Subject: June 12 at Copley Theatre 225 Clarendon Street
Message:
Hi Jondon,

I have no plans to suffer through all that shit.

There is no need.

I have my own ideas.

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Date: Wed, May 31, 2000 at 03:49:54 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Monmot At Your Service
Subject: thanks !! if I'd go myself but..
Message:
in spite of being ridiculed about 'it's not about me'
I doubt I'd make it in! and my family is around there ick!
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Date: Wed, May 31, 2000 at 03:52:12 (GMT)
From: Monmot
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: Did you grow up there?
Message:
I'm from there originally. What I call My Deformative Years. :-))
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Date: Wed, May 31, 2000 at 03:53:00 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Monmot
Subject: spent my arrested development in western Mass
Message:
near Amherst
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Date: Wed, May 31, 2000 at 03:58:05 (GMT)
From: Monmot
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: I did my time in Somerville/Cambridge
Message:
Harvard Square saved my ass. If it hadn't been for bookstores, I would have been arrested in my development. Amherst area is very nice, but it's all different when you're a kid.
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Date: Wed, May 31, 2000 at 03:46:39 (GMT)
From: bb
Email: None
To: Monmot At Your Service
Subject: June 12 at Copley Theatre 225 Clarendon Street
Message:
This must be prime time for online ex's.
Thank you monmot.
I just happen to know a good after hours music spot in Boston and monday is 'cheap date night' and so THAT event will be free.

This will be expensive and a pain in the ass but, oh well, the ultimater ruler has amnesia and needs to be reminded of his real identity.

Really, I was settleing down about my grevious wound of a lifetime wasted. This insult of his is just a kick in the teeth.
Just the ispiration I needed.

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Date: Wed, May 31, 2000 at 03:54:05 (GMT)
From: Monmot
Email: None
To: bb
Subject: June 12 at Copley Theatre 225 Clarendon Street
Message:
You'll particularly enjoy the DVD K review.
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Date: Wed, May 31, 2000 at 04:06:57 (GMT)
From: bb
Email: None
To: Monmot
Subject: June 12 at Copley Theatre 225 Clarendon Street
Message:
I wont be enduring THAT.
But I wont say any more. Let the forum reading security loons
think what they want.
I better sign off so I dont type anymore about this.
Thank you and good night.
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Date: Wed, May 31, 2000 at 03:14:00 (GMT)
From: bb
Email: None
To: bill burke
Subject: when and where is that boston event.
Message:
Hmmm?
anyone?
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Date: Wed, May 31, 2000 at 03:26:46 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: bb
Subject: It's here, as lots of other info !!!!!!!
Message:
What do you think is that EV today section for ?

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Date: Wed, May 31, 2000 at 08:03:55 (GMT)
From: Look the wording!
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Money please!!!
Message:
Contributions: The reservation fee covers less than 30% of the event costs. Additional contributions are needed and greatly appreciated. Contributions to support these events as well as upcoming Knowledge Sessions can be included with your seating reservation form and can also be made at the event.

1-IT ONLY COVERS 30% of events costs, so, give more!
2-Additional contributions: MORE MONEY, PLEASE!
3-I give K: MONEY PLEASE!
4-You can give more money anytime:Before, after, during!! WHAT ABOUT GIVING SOME MORE MONEY, GOD DAMIT!!

yAWN....What a scam this guru has going...for how long though?
You are in a rollercoster and on your way down fatzo!

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Date: Wed, May 31, 2000 at 16:06:08 (GMT)
From: Elaine
Email: None
To: Look the wording!
Subject: Hiding again,eh?
Message:
Hmmm
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Date: Wed, May 31, 2000 at 17:56:07 (GMT)
From: I give you hiding
Email: None
To: Elaine
Subject: I'll follow you
Message:
if you want to play 'the game'. I have nothing to hide but my name for now. Let see how biased you can be. LOL

You wrote on the 'JUST DISSAPEARED' THREAD THAT WENT INTO ARCHIVE.

Let see how dishonest with yourself you can be, lady of the thounsand colors!

Someone 'accussed' you of having no morals stand on Maharaji's issue. Your answer:

'No moral interest?'
Good question.

The first thing I think of is,' 'My God, no one went into a Wendy's and shot 7 people,here'

Worse than that, because we can assume that the people who got shot are ok, are exes ok? Can you speak for everybody??

I had a huge moral interest in John Grisham's 'The Chamber'.(Or any death penalty issue - Bush's Texas is a slaughterhouse.)

A moral interest? In M and some ex going at it...no.

YOU ARE FULL OF BULLSHIT. yOU STUPID!!

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Date: Thurs, Jun 01, 2000 at 17:53:39 (GMT)
From: Elaine
Email: None
To: SB
Subject: And BTW
Message:
Do you watch the news? --- the 7 people who got shot in Wendy's are NOT ok.
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Date: Wed, May 31, 2000 at 18:30:02 (GMT)
From: Elaine
Email: None
To: I give you hiding
Subject: I'll follow you
Message:
I think your underwear's alittle tight.

Sorry you're having such a bad day. If I upset you so -- why not take a break from my posts?

I'm certainly not real responsive to anger (emotionalism).

Name calling's alittle junior high, don't ya think?
When you calm down let me know I'll read your posts to me.
Till then...

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Date: Wed, May 31, 2000 at 03:34:59 (GMT)
From: bb
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: It's here, as lots of other info !!!!!!!
Message:
Thank you Jean-Michel!
I see that it is a premie only event. Perfect. They will all understand.

I am going to go and have a vodka and salute you.
That is your drink these days right?
When are the American tour photos going on line?
I loved the English tour shots.

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Date: Thurs, Jun 01, 2000 at 00:55:05 (GMT)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: bb and JM
Subject: It's here, as lots of other info !!!!!!!
Message:
Yes, JM, are there any shots of the cop with the big teeth? 'I am from France--I did not know!!'
(;
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Date: Thurs, Jun 01, 2000 at 06:57:11 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Helen
Subject: No my private photographer was too scared!! (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Wed, May 31, 2000 at 03:37:23 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: bb
Subject: I love this place. bb where did you read this
Message:
crap from M? (I don't go look usually but would like to save this
special tidbit)
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Date: Wed, May 31, 2000 at 03:58:48 (GMT)
From: bb
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: I love this place. bb where did you read this
Message:
Oh I think it's under the section...
'Im just like all these OTHER masters listed here'

Here is another lie....'If you like what is given, practice it; if not, leave it. This statement, to me is simple yet profound
and has been echoed since the time of my father.'
Echoed by whom?

The first quote was from his 'journey'.
I think the other two were in the quote section.
This last lie listed above is also from his 'journey'
I dont reccomend going to that website.

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Date: Wed, May 31, 2000 at 17:20:37 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: bb
Subject: If you don't like knowledge, just leave it....
Message:
Of course, having tons of vegetables rotting in you while you smash into a thousand pieces might make you a little uncomfortable.
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Date: Thurs, Jun 01, 2000 at 02:03:46 (GMT)
From: bb
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: If you don't like knowledge, just leave it....
Message:
Wouldnt he love it ifpeople would just go the heck away.

WE are part of his rotting vegetables. His concience and his memory are where the rest of the vegetables lie in wait haunting him.

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Date: Wed, May 31, 2000 at 02:57:31 (GMT)
From: Hector
Email: hramirez2000@hotmail.com
To: Everyone
Subject: Definition of a cult
Message:

Definitions of terms:


Cults, Sects and Denominations


Quotation:
'...if you believe in it, it is a religion or perhaps the religion;
and if you do not care one way or another about it, it is a sect;
but if you fear and hate it, it is a cult.'

Leo Pfeffer. A humorous quotation, but one that is uncomfortably close to reality.


Meanings of the Word CULT
Religious groups and individuals are notorious for assigning multiple meanings to a single word. The term 'Unitarian' is a good example:

Pre-1776 CE: Belief in a single God and the rejection of the Christian concept of the Trinity.
Post-1776: A creedless, dogma-free religious organization. The Unitarian Universalist Association, (UUA) is an association of Unitarian groups.

Utter confusion reigns when an author is using one definition of 'Unitarian,' while a reader assumes the other meaning. Misunderstandings also happen when an author assumes that both definitions refer to the same organization or belief.

Perhaps the most confusing and dangerous religious term is 'Cult'. We have found that the word has at least 8 very different meanings. One is positive; some neutral; some negative; one is even extremely negative:

Positive Meaning:
Theological usage: Oxford English Dictionary defined 'cult' as: 'worship; reverential homage rendered to a divine being or beings'
'a particular form or system of religious worship; especially in reference to its external rites and ceremonies'
devotion or homage to a particular person or thing.'

This is the historical meaning of the word, but is rarely today heard outside of religious circles. A reference to the 'Cult of Mary' appeared in a newspaper report on the Pope's 1999 visit to the Americas. It simply means that the Pope devotes special attention to the Virgin Mary.

Neutral Meanings:
Sociological usage: A small religious group that exists in a state of tension with the predominant religion. Hinduism might be considered a cult in North America; Christianity might be considered a cult in India.
Additional sociological usage: An innovative, fervent religious group, as contrasted with more established and conventional sects and denominations.
The Observer: An English newspaper seemed to use the term to refer to any small religious group, no matter what its age or teachings. 1
General religious usage: A small, recently created, religious organization which is often headed by a single charismatic leader and is viewed as an spiritually innovative group. A cult in this sense may simply be a new religious movement on its way to becoming a denomination. The Christian religion, as it existed in 30 CE might be considered a cult involving one leader and 12 or 70 devoted followers. The Mormon denomination was started in the 19th century by Joseph Smith and a few followers; it later grew to become an established denomination.

Negative Meanings:
Evangelical Christian and Counter-Cult Movement usage: Any religious group which accepts most but not all of the historical Christian doctrines (the divinity of Jesus, virgin birth, the Trinity, salvation, etc.). The implication is that the cult's theology is invalid; they teach heresy. Under this definition, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (the Mormons), Unification Church and Jehovah's Witnesses to be cults. But they would not classify Wicca as such, because it is not associated with Christianity. The earliest use of this meaning of the word 'Cult' is believed to be a 1938 book 'The Chaos of the Cults' by J.K. VanBaalen. On the other hand, new religious groups such as the Mormons, Unification Church and Jehovah's Witnesses generally regard themselves to be the true Christian church. They view all other denominations as being in error. Thus, one groups true church is another group's cult.

Fundamentalist Christian usage:
Some Fundamentalists would accept the Evangelical definition of cult defined above. Others might brand any religious group which deviates from historical Protestant Christian beliefs as a cult. This definition would include the Mormon Church, Wicca, mainline and liberal Christian denominations, Islam, Hinduism, and all of the other religions of the world. Over 70% of humanity would belong to cults, by this definition.

Mental Health Groups and anti-cult movement usage:
A small number of therapists, research psychologists, self-taught individuals, etc., form the anti-cult movement (ACM) They attempt to raise public consciousness about what they see as dangerous and authoritarian mind control cults and doomsday cults. Many do not care about the faith group's theology. They target only what they see as deceptive practices, and dangerous psychological pressure techniques, such as brainwashing. The ACM appears to hold opinions about the effectiveness of brainwashing that are not shared by the mental-health community generally. They see mind control/doomsday cults as a widespread social problem.

Very negative meaning:
Popular, media usage: (very negative meaning) a small, evil religious group, often with a single charismatic leader, which engages in brainwashing and other mind control techniques, believes that the end of the world is imminent, and collects large amounts of weaponry in preparation for a massive war. Often used as a synonym for mind control religious group or for doomsday cult. The earliest use of this meaning of the word is believed to have been in a 1965 book by Walter Martin 'The Kingdom of the Cults' (revised and expanded in 1985).

We have seen 'cult' used to refer to Evangelical denominations, the Roman Catholic Church, Unification Church, Church of Scientology, United Church of Christ, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, Wiccans, other Neopagans and many other faith groups. The term is essentially meaningless.

We recommend that the word be rarely used. We would recommend substituting the term new religious movement, alternative religious movement, emergent religion or faith group. These terms are more precise and have not (yet) been burdened by so many negative connotations, as has 'cult.' An even better usage is to simply refer to the group by its name. In 1998-MAY, the Associated Press decided to avoid the use of the word 'cult' because it had acquired a pejorative aura; they have since given preference to the term 'sect.'

This web site normally refers only to 'doomsday faith groups' as 'cults.' We feel that use of the word 'cult' without careful definition in advance leads to confusion and misunderstanding.

Of course, if you are an author, public speaker or teleminister who wants to direct public fear and hatred against a new religious group, then 'cult' is an ideal word to use. But the use of the term may be irresponsible and immoral, depending upon your system of values.

Copyright © 1996 to 2000 incl.
Latest update: 2000-MAR-31
Author: B.A. Robinson

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Date: Wed, May 31, 2000 at 19:16:37 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Hector
Subject: Very Good Hector....
Message:
...but Hector, a question if I may.

What's your own definition of a cult? Those definitions you printed are all from other people.

By 'cult' I mean organisations like the Moonies, Scientologists and Hare Krishnas?

Anth the curious

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Date: Wed, May 31, 2000 at 03:28:07 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Hector
Subject: On no, not this tripe again!
Message:
Q: Did you ever worship a fat, little pudgy Indian teenager as the Lord of the Universe?

A: Yep.

Q: Did you believe that he was an embodiment of an actual living consciousness that created and sustained the entire universe?

A: Yep.

Q: Did you learn to trust his words over and above your own thoughts, even when his words were virtually unintelligible and / or nonsensical?

A: Yep.

Q: Did you aspire to sacrifice your individual identity to this person so that you could become a 'pure vessel for his consciousness'?

A: Yep.

Q: Were you trained to believe that this person rightfully owned everything and you, on the other hand, had no claim to anything in this world?

A: Yep.

Q: Did you give untold dollars and countless hours of your time to serving this person all the while believing that anything less than complete surrender was essentially 'stealing' from yoru creator?

A: Yep.

Q: Were you trained to muzzle all doubts or questions?

A: Yep.

Then you were in a cult.

Next question?

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Date: Wed, May 31, 2000 at 23:13:18 (GMT)
From: O
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: More tripe
Message:
Since we are not all cut from the same block here is another premie’s answers to your questions:

Q: Did you ever worship a fat, little pudgy Indian teenager as the Lord of the Universe?

A: Yep.

Q: Did you believe that he was an embodiment of an actual living consciousness that created and sustained the entire universe?

A: Yep.

Q: Did you learn to trust his words over and above your own thoughts, even when his words were virtually unintelligible and / or nonsensical?

A: Nope.

Q: Did you aspire to sacrifice your individual identity to this person so that you could become a 'pure vessel for his consciousness'?

A: Yep.

Q: Were you trained to believe that this person rightfully owned everything and you, on the other hand, had no claim to anything in this world?

A: Nope.

Q: Did you give untold dollars and countless hours of your time to serving this person…

A: Yep.

Q: …all the while believing that anything less than complete surrender was essentially 'stealing' from yoru creator?

A: Nope.

Q: Were you trained to muzzle all doubts or questions?

A: Nope.

So?Tell me again what cult was it that you were in…

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Date: Thurs, Jun 01, 2000 at 05:27:35 (GMT)
From: Daneane
Email: None
To: O
Subject: More tripe
Message:
I think you may have interpreted this question differently than Jim meant it(if I have any comprehension of what Jim means, anyway):

Q: Were you trained to muzzle all doubts or
questions?

I think here Jim is referring to questions about M, knowledge, what he does and what he says.

He is not necessarily referring to questions such as, 'When is the next video presentation', 'How much can I please donate?', 'How much can I do for you today Lord?' and such.

Given the second interpretation, 'nope' is something I can believe.

In answer to the first interpretation, however, I don't think I buy your answer. I tried to ask questions as an aspirant. I'm still waiting for answers.

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Date: Thurs, Jun 01, 2000 at 01:06:59 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: O
Subject: What cult?? You've got to be fucking kidding!
Message:
Q: Were you trained to muzzle all doubts or questions?

A: Nope.

LEAVE NO ROOM FOR DOUBT IN YOUR MIND

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Date: Thurs, Jun 01, 2000 at 21:53:17 (GMT)
From: O
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: What cult?? Hey stop your cussing!
Message:
Doubt leads to questions.Questions lead to analysis.Analysis leads to answers.Answers remove doubt.
This process is officially sanctioned by all governing bodies, past and present masters, and nowhere does it require you to “muzzle all doubts or questions”.Bingo!So what cult was it again that yuo used to be in?
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Date: Sat, Jun 03, 2000 at 12:00:45 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: O
Subject: 5 Commandments
Message:
Hey O,

Weren't you around for the Perfect Master's 5 Commandments? (Moses had 10, Maharaji only needs 5)

I think 'Leave no room for doubt in your mind was at number 4.

Anth good job the weren't carved in stone eh?

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Date: Sat, Jun 03, 2000 at 17:23:21 (GMT)
From: Elaine
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: 5 Commandments
Message:
I keep reading posts ref to not leaving doubt in your mind.

I'm sorry - I always considered that as - don't leave doubt that you can have a great experience. That it is possible to experience the things that K was all about.
And I never did.(doubt)

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Date: Sun, Jun 04, 2000 at 21:06:22 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Elaine
Subject: Doubting an experience
Message:
How can you possibly doubt an experience Elaine?

What you can doubt of course, is your belief in what that experience is.

Doubting Anth

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Date: Sun, Jun 04, 2000 at 21:25:00 (GMT)
From: Elaine
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Doubting an experience
Message:
I don't doubt my exp.

You missed the word 'can' in my post.

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Date: Sat, Jun 03, 2000 at 22:28:39 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Elaine
Subject: 5 Commandments
Message:
Hi Elaine,

(god, I must get outside...) a question, though:

You said

That it is possible to experience the things that K was all about. And I never did.(doubt)

What are those 'things that K was all about?' maybe I missed something but the 'experience' for me was deadly boring and useless. How 'bout you?

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Date: Sun, Jun 04, 2000 at 03:53:14 (GMT)
From: Elaine
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: 5 Commandments
Message:
Don't get me started ----see ya tomorrow...:)
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Date: Sun, Jun 04, 2000 at 15:28:37 (GMT)
From: Gerry
Email: None
To: Elaine
Subject: 5 Commandments
Message:
'...the exp was deadly boring and useless. How about you?'

It's too bad this is the stuff I like talking about and again I don't have much time-- and this will be going inactive soon...

May I just say - of course anyone that has put time in meditation knows what you're saying.

I find my best friend that really has meditated on a regular basis since I've known her - over 20 yrs. --I perceive and in our talks - she has told me she doesn't exp - what I do---tho she is filled with love and does indeed exude that to all.

I just mainly wanted to say --for any meditator of any persuasion -now this to me has nothing to do with M,OK?

That when we start - we must have the proper Attitude.
That's where that -leaving no rm for doubt comes in .

When we sit or lay dn - we must start with a knowing ---
a knowing that goes beyond belief or even trust. We must know that we are doing one of the only things that is what 'God' wants us to be doing ----- communing with Him - opening to Him -showing our desire for Him ---and we will wait for Him.

Gerry, it's just a Divine Romance ( familiar w/ Yogananda's book? same title).
Meditation is the most erotic romance you can experience - never boring. But, start out with the proper 'attitude'.

My friend is saying she's ready ---gotta go.

Elaine

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Date: Sun, Jun 04, 2000 at 15:31:05 (GMT)
From: Elaine
Email: None
To: Gerry
Subject: Sorry about above name mix - E to Gerry (nt
Message:
Elaine to Gerry, sorry
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Date: Fri, Jun 02, 2000 at 00:46:20 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: O
Subject: You're being stupid (Are you a premie by chance?)
Message:
Doubt leads to questions.

Yes, but we were told to meditate them out of our minds. Certainly not to dwell on them. And even try to ask Maharaji anything anytime during the last two decades. Forget it!

Questions lead to analysis.

Yes, exactly! I'd forgotten that Maharaji encouraged us to analyze his words and have various discussion groups and what not. Of course.

Analysis leads to answers.Answers remove doubt.

You're an idiot. How's that for acute, insightful analysis? A complete goofball, to be more precise.
This process is officially sanctioned by all governing bodies, past and present masters, and nowhere does it require you to “muzzle all doubts or questions”.Bingo!So what cult was it again that yuo used to be in?

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Date: Fri, Jun 02, 2000 at 01:09:11 (GMT)
From: O
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: No just a premie.
Message:
Ah Jim,don't be so hard on everyone.Try to exercise a little kindness in your life.You know,you'll benefit one hundred fold for just one itsy-bitsy drop of kindness.Because Jim,I'm not really an idiot,you just think I am.Maybe your not thinking strainght right now.Maybe youve had a bad day.Sit back and just try to relax for a bit before responding to this.OK?

You said:>>>>'Yes, but we were told to meditate them out of our minds'
Who was it who told you that?Where did M ever say to do this?Show me a quote.

You said:>>>'Yes, exactly! I'd forgotten that Maharaji encouraged us to analyze his words and have various discussion groups and what not. Of course.'
Actually he always said it was an individual experience,not a group one.

You said:>>>'You're an idiot. How's that for acute, insightful analysis? A complete goofball, to be more precise' which was in response to me saying,Analysis leads to answers.Answers remove doubt.
I think you've totally lost your sense of perspective Jim.Getting a real answer is indeed the only way to remove a doubt.That is even the practice in science.

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Date: Fri, Jun 02, 2000 at 04:28:55 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: None
To: O
Subject: Selective Memory, O..?
Message:
.. or Hector, or whothefuckever...

'Maharaji's' commandment number 2 - out of the five 'commandments' (his choice of term, not mine) which I received in my nicely word-processed 'knowledge pack' along with the techniques and a soft-focus piccie of the fat one himself - read: 'Leave no room for doubt in your mind'.

Quit wriggling, Prem. There is trouble up ahead.

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Date: Fri, Jun 02, 2000 at 01:22:06 (GMT)
From: Elaine
Email: None
To: O
Subject: No just a premie.
Message:
Doin' pretty good there,O.
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Date: Fri, Jun 02, 2000 at 03:19:30 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Elaine
Subject: Fuck you both -- yes, you, Elaine
Message:
You two are either idiots or assholes. No one's going to whitewash the most definite, blatant, mile-high fact that Maharaji set us up against our minds and by 'mind' he meant doubt, questioning, etc. etc. etc..

You want quotes? I've got them but why bother? Anyone who denies this most obvvious truth is a simple liar. You, Elaine, show your true colours at moments like this.

Oh and something else ..... you like pony-tail, sports jacket and sneakers? That is soooooooo old! I'm soooooooo embarrassed for you! This is worse than being a premie. You can wakeup from being a premie. Bad taste goes even deeper.

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Date: Sat, Jun 03, 2000 at 01:41:58 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Bad Taste - the ultimate sin
Message:
I'm going to make a crown tire and paint it red and white and stick it in my yard next to the pink flamingo - it will be the Jim Heller shrine to bad taste. Actually, that kind of bad taste is SO bad that it's good, if you know what I mean.

Sorry, Jim - couldn't help it.

But, Elaine, I have been reading your posts and it is really hard for me to understand why you call yourself a 'premie'. I understand that you practice the Knowledge meditation - a lot of EX-premies do that, too; and that you go to programs to see people you know (ditto for other EX-premies). But honestly, I don't think that thinking what you think and feeling what you feel about Maharaji is what Maharaji would expect of a 'premie' or 'person with knowledge'.

I don't know when you got knowledge (I have not followed all your posts), so maybe that is the difference between you and me. But from what I have read, you don't even think of Maharaji as your 'teacher' - unless you think of him as one of MANY teachers in your life. If I hear what Maharaji is saying correctly, he considers himself to be THE teacher, and THE master.

Anyway, I am puzzled as to why you call yourself a 'premie'.

Take care,
Katie

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Date: Sat, Jun 03, 2000 at 14:45:02 (GMT)
From: Elaine
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: Eye of the beholder...
Message:
Well, yes, I can certainly see why you'd be puzzled.
I said once to someone here - I call myself a premie probably bec I don't call myself an 'ex'. I have for fifteen years called myself -not the best premie - but, I still consider myself one. Remember - I've said I never really got into the cult thing as much as others. I was a rebel in the ashram - before and after. I didn't let others intimidate me. Oh - rec K in 73 before Millenium. Just after the Detroit pie thing.

I'm sorry for the confusion - my point coming onto this site was to kind of let some here know -not all premies are fanatical.
I actually learned something from meditation and listening to some of M's ss ---it has helped me be a more tolerant,open-minded,non-judgmental person. I do feel alot of premies have gleened nothing fr Kn. They are as egotistical and immature socially and emotionally as a twenty year old. Their anger and intolerance of others is beyond belief to me. Their lack of love is astounding. Their values of climbing that social ladder to M is still prevalent - just sad they think they need to be close to him to be 'connected'.

I have a friend far away on an island that will go in debt just to see M - I tell her - just meditate,go inside -that's what M taught you afterall ---- but no, she has to get a fix and then three days later she's calling me crying bec of some disaster in her life she can't handle --- well, great she's in debt over a grand - that was just great.

Another friend, sweet as she could be - has NO money - ever. She hasn't gleened any wisdom in her meditations about how to live in this world and the power she has to manifest anything.

Generally, premies are a big disappointment to me. I pride myself on being different. Maybe not the best premie - but I sure seem wiser than the bozos I hear talking before the videos come on. I try not to judge - but you look at a door and call it a door -is that judging? I don't hate them - they'll come along sometime ---we all grow at our own speed. Just like my garden - you don't plant all the same flowers that bloom all at once and that's it, right?

Always nice chatting with you,Katie

Elaine

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Date: Fri, Jun 02, 2000 at 16:46:52 (GMT)
From: O
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: What an angry man you are!
Message:
I said:>>>Doubt leads to questions.Questions lead to analysis.Analysis leads to answers.Answers remove doubt.

Jim nobody is whitewashing anything so no need to fly off the handle again.I merely presented another more rational approach to M’s advice regarding dealing with doubt.I understand this is one of the cornerstones of the ex-premie attack on him which explains why you are so adamently protecting your point of view but I believe you are exhibiting tunnel vision by rejecting so categoricly my alternate point of view.After all,this is how I understood I should approach doubt and it has always worked so it deserves consideration.I have never heard him say I need to muzzle my questions or doubts and I never have.I have too much respect fotr my own facilities to do that.Maybe you didn’t have the same respect for yours.No harm in admitting it if that’s the case.But geez Jim you don’t have to take it out on everyone else.At the end of the day you’ll only end up harming yourself.
I ask you again to give me a quote where he said we must muzzle our questioning and doubts and just meditate them away.Come on,humor me.

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Date: Sat, Jun 03, 2000 at 00:50:25 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: O
Subject: I've got a better idea
Message:
I ask you again to give me a quote where he said we must muzzle our questioning and doubts and just meditate them away.Come on,humor me.

How about telling me first who you are, when you got Knowledge and shit like that. As far as I'm concerned, anyone who was in this cult in the seventies who denies that Maharaji was all about not trusting your mind, avoiding doubt, suppressing questions, basically, faith, faith, faith and more faith, anyone who claims that Maharaji did not consciously, persistently, relentlessly and, sadly, effectively, instill fear and loathing of our minds (and by that I mean everything in our heads that was not 'one with Maharaji'), anyone who says that questions and analysis was condoned, let alone encouraged, anyone who claims to have been an active premie then but to have proudly maintained faith in their own thought process contrary to all the diametrically opposed satsang and even agya to that effect (all of which is amply set out in the DLM history section of this site so there's no need for me or anyone to keep reinventing the wheel for every last apologist who pops in under some fake name and is, in fact, probably the same fool who did so under another name the week before and yet again the week before that, so shamelessly indefensible is waht ever nonsense they spout here) is a liar. Plain and simple.

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Date: Fri, Jun 02, 2000 at 16:21:10 (GMT)
From: Elaine
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Fuck you both -- yes, you, Elaine
Message:
I'm sorry - I meant dress coat as in a long dress coat like to the calves. Old is the best,Jim - you mean I should like those three button suits Regis wears like from the 1910's - I didn't like them in 'Somewhere in Time' -don't like 'em now.

And thank you for not using the arsehole word - never relate to that- I'm American thru and thru.

Also BTW, to compliment someone bec there doing pretty good - is not even saying I agree with them ----just that you,Jim are such a formidable debater - that anyone that can last as long as O without reverting to profanity is doing pretty good at going up against such a clear thinker as you. I thought you knew me better than that.

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Date: Fri, Jun 02, 2000 at 16:24:17 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Elaine
Subject: Bullshit, Elaine
Message:
Your point was to encourage this O idiot. What is this? A game for you? Fuck off.
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Date: Fri, Jun 02, 2000 at 16:50:04 (GMT)
From: Elaine
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Bullshit, Elaine
Message:
Why get so upset so early in the morning.
You tell raina to not think linearly - well I'm going to say - lighten up today - have some fun already. (Telling someone what to do goes against my nature - that was hard for me to write.)

What does it feel like when you tell someone in writing to 'fuck off'.Does it feel satisfying - like a release of some sort.
A venting of some anger? I just haven't gotten the point - when it's in big bold letters - I still don't get it - I think one has just gotten a thicker crayon from the box and now is REALLY having fun. It's just not one of the tools I use in communication - might have something to do with testosterone.

I know when you said once I was 'just posturing' - that has stuck with me - 'posturing' - some testosterone thing - like male animals in the wild. I really had to think about it - male things confuse me at times - but I'm trying.

I suppose feminine things confuse you, too, at times.

Cya,Elaine

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Date: Sat, Jun 03, 2000 at 01:02:43 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Elaine
Subject: Slippery Elaine, huh?
Message:
Where's the substance? I accused you of encouraging O and you denied it. I then said that it was obvious you were doing so and all you can do is talk about how angry I get. Does that count as an answer? No.

And the point of all this? That you're as slippery as every other premie that posts here.

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Date: Sat, Jun 03, 2000 at 14:54:59 (GMT)
From: Elaine
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Slippery Elaine, huh?
Message:
Jim,
If you read closer - I'm slipperier than you think bec I never denied I was encouraging O. So there.

I encourage you,O.

There, can you have a nice day now, Jim. I somehow think - it won't be as good as mine.

Which crayon are you going to reach for now?

Love you always forever and ever - but I can't prove it,
Elaine

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Date: Sat, Jun 03, 2000 at 18:12:12 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Elaine
Subject: So now you admit it?
Message:
First you take offense when I accuse you of encouraging G. You wrote:

Also BTW, to compliment someone bec there doing pretty good - is not even saying I agree with them ----

Then I press you on the point and you admit that (duh!) you were encouraging O.

Fuck off, Elaine.

By the way, your interpretation of '

Never Leave Doubt inb Your Mind

' is every bit as stupid and empty as the game you jsut played with me now. Maharaji lectured us for hundreds and hundreds, make that THOUSANDS of hours on what it meant. You're just a liar, that's all. You're lying to yourself and us. Do we need to play the quotes game? Forget it.
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Date: Sun, Jun 04, 2000 at 03:11:48 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Encouraging G?
Message:
First you take offense when I accuse you of encouraging G.

Now Jim, G and O are nowhere near each other on the keyboard, so what's going on in your head? Is it that they look the same, or have I been bothering you too much?

Why do you keep writing 'Fuck off'? You're acting like a crazy person who continuously goes around cursing at people. You need to get a grip, maybe do some exercise. Really, you will feel better. Getting all this arguing exercise at the Forum isn't a substitute. You really do like arguing, don't you?

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Date: Sun, Jun 04, 2000 at 05:49:25 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: G
Subject: Sorry, all the masks get confusing sometimes
Message:
You're right. I meant O. Why are you disguised by the way? Sorry, don't mean to pry. It must be the most natural thing in the world. What was I thinking?
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Date: Sun, Jun 04, 2000 at 19:59:15 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: That's ok
Message:
That's ok, I'm just giving you shit.

I feel hesitant to reveal on the internet that I was a member of a cult for a loooong time. I don't know who might see this site, they might wonder about me. My public image has already been damaged enough. That's one reason.

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Date: Mon, Jun 05, 2000 at 03:06:37 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: G
Subject: one thing G
Message:
You would be really surprised how little anyone give a shit about
all this.
The more I come clean with people the more they look at me like yeah, so?
It is SUCH a relief... And, working in computing it is also a relief technically because I have had fears and paranoia about being bothered at work. It JUST DOESN'T matter all that much.
I know, it's hard to believe but every time I tell someone this deep dark secret they just take it so nochalantly I am amazed.
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Date: Mon, Jun 05, 2000 at 04:10:31 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: at work
Message:
I've told people at work what's going on. Actually, before I stopped following m, I tried to get a couple of people at work interested in m/k to no avail (suprise surprise). Now the same people know I 'left' m (not that I really was 'with' him). They sort of like that but don't really care much. I joke around with them a little about gurus in general. But I still feel hestitant about going public about it.
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Date: Mon, Jun 05, 2000 at 05:17:07 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: G
Subject: yeah I do understand
Message:
here's a weird one
some of the weirdest shit I've gotten is from ex's
but... that is another story for another time
it's late and I'm tired
You are probably right to cautious. That has never been my
'good side' :)
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Date: Wed, May 31, 2000 at 23:40:16 (GMT)
From: ged
Email: None
To: O
Subject: More tripe
Message:
Very good O! I feel you are finally reaching out to us . Now go back over the questions you answered yes to and really think about what you are saying yes to.

Q: Did you believe that he was an embodiment of an actual living consciousness that created and sustained the entire universe?

A: Yep.

How lucky of you to stumble upon the real one out of all the hundreds of people who claim the same!

Q: Did you ever worship a fat, little pudgy Indian teenager as the Lord of the Universe?

A: Yep.

Hey , we all did . Some of us have grown out of it . A bit like masturbating over your sisters' freinds knickers ( or was that just me???)

Q: Did you give untold dollars and countless hours of your time to serving this person…

A: Yep.

The words 'smell' and 'coffee' spring to mind.

Good luck with the rest of your journey back from bulshitsvillle.

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Date: Wed, May 31, 2000 at 01:12:49 (GMT)
From: A Jewel from raina
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Almost lost!! Simply irrestible!
Message:
Date: Tues, May 30, 2000 at 00:28:26
From: raina
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: 'JIM' Official Spokesperson for EVERYONE!
Message:
Jim? you'll be interested to know that YOU
yes! YOU have got me re-thinking about my interest
in understanding what M's gig is about!!!
i never got the 'special k' but do you think i really would be so stupid
as to go looking for them! (besides the waste of time, that tongue up the nose thing sounded SO gross!)

do you think i would go ''seek and you shall find'' as you posted 'the
techniques-they're ALL here'' you wrote! duh! is that what YOU would do?

I'M NOT YOU!!-(I'M not a fucking IDIOT in other words)
you brain dead desperado! i 'know' better!!!!!

i GET it!!!!

Because of you (and a few other's like the spicey little hotty known as 'superBrat'
i think i may actually feel drawn back into the idea of making (some sort of) a committment to
M again! maybe i'll get a job and travel and write love poems with 4 letter words! (Sheesh is allowed by the FCC but shit isn't! why? BECAUSE OF ASSHOLEs like you! STUCK in the words!)
stuck in the shice! shisa!

it's because of hateful bitter misdirected morons like you that
SHIT happens...the BAD shit....the very reason human beings screw each other up.....to me you are 'specimen #98889'................
what is it that you think YOU have to offer people here?
seriously? you're delusional!

how ironic! i think i'll listen to an M tape right now!
while i fall asleep! (i can handle it unlike you...maybe that's why you hate me too?
you're so fucked up...i should pity you...and would....if you weren't so damn nasty...

ya-you were the first one to make me get into reflecting the ugly shit weren't you?
it was kinda fun tho...no regretz.....just disappointment....

the way you use the word 'we'
sounds like you REALLY believe it.....

do you HONESTLY think YOU will decide my fate here?

i'll come and go as i please!

life is short....who knows where either one of us will be in a few weeks!

you strike me as the ultra high cholesterol type!

i'm sure you've made great contributions in your long LONG life...so sure...
you EMBODY what is most vulgar in life.....misdirected hatred....thanx 4 sharing
and being contagious!

why do you bother to click on my posts!?
just stay away!
go away
go away
go away

and know that when i do post something-i will NOT be expecting to get a reply from you....but you will still come after me i'm sure. is it because everyone else is boring you? are you nervous about coming to terms with roger's interest in aging and sagging male breasts...do you know i once saw milk come from a man's nipple! no shit...oh wait that's right! i'm being mean to jim...back on track here!

go away you silly old man....

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Date: Wed, May 31, 2000 at 17:34:13 (GMT)
From: raina
Email: None
To: FA
Subject: FA? are posters allowed to use other's names?
Message:
it's one thing to post using an extra tongue in cheek alias...
but quite another to put someone ELSE'S name in
'from field'...........

that's actually spmething i would think people would
be reprimanded for....that IS serious....

someone did it to me once before a few weeks ago-
but i had the feeling it was accidental then

not this time....

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Date: Wed, May 31, 2000 at 23:20:27 (GMT)
From: ged
Email: None
To: raina
Subject: Raina , the answer to your salvation lies here
Message:
Raina ,I've finally worked out why you hang around here with your hatred. I looked at the index of Psycho therapists and saw the rates they were charging divided it by your telephone bill for being on the net and worked out you owe ex-premie.com ...........let's see ..... your hatred! So if you could please hand over your hatred before we have to call in the credit agency ( we use the same one as M , so as you know we are not fucking around here) then we can call it quits and then you will be free to come on here and talk to people about whats really bothering you , and people wiil be so in awe of your new ability to say what you actually mean that they will respond to you in a way that could be enlightening for you and hence you will save, if not on psychiatric bills then on years of talking the same shit you always do . I reached my hand out to you in a previous posting and you came back with the same old same old. Shame really ,because I suspect beneath the bullshit there is a pretty nice human being.
Yours , hating you because I love you
Ged
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Date: Wed, May 31, 2000 at 19:30:34 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: raina
Subject: FA? are posters allowed to use other's names?
Message:
Raina,

As someone who was posting under a dozen or so names a couple of weeks ago, and asked to stop, I'm surprised you've forgotten already how we do it round here.

Anth the AJW

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Date: Thurs, Jun 01, 2000 at 01:40:42 (GMT)
From: this from AJW?
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: FA? are posters allowed to use other's names?
Message:
this was what i RAINA, meant by using each other' s names!

i LOVED my PT HEAD alias with 'My Heart for Your Stool' peom...
and yes there were about 3 other aliases.....that were always SHORT and meant to be
OBVIOUS (as possible) and funny... all in the same couple of days.....NOT to ATTAck as JIM is here..........

but i'm sure it would seem like AT LEAST 'a dozen or so' aliases to you....
because if you didn't exagerate why you hate me....you might stop attacking!

and you can tell 'ged' that he needn't worry about the cost of my isp connection....
it's free......they love me too. so no, he hasn't 'figured anything out'....but i LOVE
his clever psychiatric bill jokes!

no i've never 'figured ou how things work' here as you say.....
do you mean the way you use 'we'?
as if you are ALL one?
jim does that A LOT too!

it's SO.....culty
(no spell check for this baby-straight to post!)

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Date: Thurs, Jun 01, 2000 at 12:23:29 (GMT)
From: (Sir) David
Email: sirdavid12@hotmail.com
To: this from AJW?
Subject: I agree with you there, Raina
Message:
There is no we here and if there was, I'd go against it; me being a natural rebel against trends and group mind sets etc.

I haven't read too much of your work here. But I gather it's caused somewhat of a storm. That is good.

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Date: Fri, Jun 02, 2000 at 23:31:31 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: (Sir) David
Subject: Yeah Dave, a storm in a teaspoon. (nt)
Message:
pitter patter
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Date: Thurs, Jun 01, 2000 at 10:50:37 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Raina the Confused
Subject: FA? are posters allowed to use other's names?
Message:
Raina,

Do you take lots of drugs before you come on the Forum, or are you on permanent medication?

Anth the Addict

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Date: Thurs, Jun 01, 2000 at 01:55:03 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: this from AJW?
Subject: Raina, you are one sick little bird, aren't you?
Message:
The more I read your detritus the more I feel sorry for you.
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Date: Thurs, Jun 01, 2000 at 03:48:53 (GMT)
From: raina
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: tell us! of 'the middle of a long, serious trial!'
Message:
here's a little (multi-purpose) DIVORCE SONG 4 ya:

is it getting better?
or do you eel the same?
will it make it easier on you now?
you got someone to blame?

yes that....'one' love
'one WIFE'
when it's ONE need
in the night

one love
we get to share it but it
leaves ya baby
if you
don't care 4 it

Did i disappoint you?
or leave a bad taste in your mouth?
you act like you never had love
and you want me to go without?

well it's too late
tonight
to drag the past out
into the night
we're one...
but we're not the same
we get to
marry each other
marry each other
one!

Have you come here for forgiveness?
have you come to raise the dead?
have you come here to play jesus?
to the lepers in your head?

did i ask 2 much?
more than a lot?
you gave me nothing
now it's
all i got

we're 1
but we're not the same
well we.....
hurt each other
then we do it again

you say:
'love is a temple
love the higher love
love is a temple
love the higher love'

you ask me to enter
but then you make me crawl
and i can't be holding on
to what u got
when all u got is hurt.....

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Date: Wed, May 31, 2000 at 18:44:30 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: raina
Subject: FA? are posters allowed to use other's names?
Message:
Righteous indignation there, Raina, he/she could at least have made it clearer that they were quoting your post.

And when you let that anger out - whooo! love it!

BTW, I made a huge boo-boo when I first posted here by calling myself 'Q', unaware that there was someone else using that moniker. I think he/she's back on the Forum recently.

I nearly followed most of what you were saying in one of your more recent posts, which made a nice change. Yes, you're free to be as obscure and/or as clever as you want, but there's no point crying 'foul' when people get pissed off because they're not able to understand you.

You know something? - for a while, I started to think that you were the old Maha hisself in disguise, the way you kept telling us you were 'expecting' negativity in response to your posts. Self-fullfilling prophecy perhaps? Who knows? Maybe you ARE the Satguru in shades.


BTW, you seem to be over-fond of blaming others for 'making you' do things, as in:
'ya-you were the first one to make me get into reflecting the ugly shit weren't you?'

Raina, (or Rawi, whoever you are) that is seriously sad.
I don't know how old you are, but an attitude like that is just ... well, ... pitiful. No hard feelings, y'know, but just - grow out of it now!!

OK, school of hard knocks in recess.

Your turn next.

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Date: Thurs, Jun 01, 2000 at 01:25:35 (GMT)
From: raina
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: FA? are posters allowed to use other's names?
Message:
c? q? please?

it's so depressing.........
i NEVER get pissed when someone doesn't understand ME.....!!!!! never!!!!
it's when they resort to the MEANEST unnecessary insults that i can't help but attack BACK!

(for example jim will cut and paste 'i never get pissed!' out of context and make me look mad, (as in cow), and so it goes......THAT's the kind of hateful shit that i can't resist attacking-even at the expense of sounding over-whacky.....it's performance art! this isn't a 'writing assignment and i expect to be graded on the grammar! it's 'spoken word' 4 me! and when i feel like giving someone my full attention-i also feel like i can hear THEM speaking their own words to me (if their being honest)...if they're just n'importe quoi....that's category ZOMBIE...and i MAY go into attack mode i admit...the reason more subtle...but trust me...i don't go looking for trouble....just have trouble walking away from it)

anytime you happen to read me going off on someone...you can be sure it's ALWAYS reactionary....even the sweet little old ladies get testy between their lines-and i don't mind pointing it out! (on some level people ALWAYS admit i may be right-i don't need to hear it!)

i mean look at 'Jerry's' post to me not too far down below in another thread! 'someone who is mentally ill' he says about a perfectly honest introspective SHARING!!!! NOTHING mean! nothing about HIM (for sure)! (and it's ALWAYS gone on from day one here with many...)

come on! you must know that I know, 'Jerry' probably walks around his mansion with a custom built dildo stuck up his bum, while chatting with us intermittently between orgasmic chaos and torturing goldfish.....
(that may be a slightly grosser picture than i was going for to make my JOKE here but....give me a LITTLE more credit? 'grow up' you said! or something like that?)

it's all 'calling the kettle black' shit.....ALL of it....

i don't care about this or any particular individual in such a forum...what i react to is a larger malicious sort of THING that i percieve to be worth attacking (at least a little) and that's my fetish (like yours is dirty undies!)

did you mean to say you read that LONG post from a couple of daze ago and 'followed most of it'?

i HATE injustice.....if i post a cute poem as 'PT HEAD' i get a formal warning from FA's (as if they're attempting to embarrass me even?!) but if JIM posts with MY name in the 'from' field it's fine!!!!!

it's injustice! and i just dig details!

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Date: Wed, May 31, 2000 at 01:38:56 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: drek@oz.net
To: A Jewel from raina
Subject: Jim, another person thinking about your health
Message:
I've forgotten the name of that other premie character who was urging you to watch, what was it now, your high blood pressure and something else.

And now Raina is worried about your cholesterol.

Jim, you are indeed lucky to have such concerned friends.

I'm wondering did you ever get that foot problem taken care of? You know, that bunion thing.

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Date: Wed, May 31, 2000 at 02:59:08 (GMT)
From: Zelda
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: whats the problem Jim?- seems coherent to me
Message:
but then again you have never been mad at yourself to the point that words and emotions sort of cooagulate before one can utter them.
You can be a frustrating and maddening beast and you know it.
with all due respect
Zelda in pshyce unit 58
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Date: Wed, May 31, 2000 at 01:21:05 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: A Jewel from raina
Subject: Jim? is this you? are you this bored and
Message:
running out of shit to post? I have some HTML markup you can do!
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Date: Wed, May 31, 2000 at 01:46:04 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: No, I've got better stuff to do
Message:
I'm in the middle of a long, serious trial these days so no, it's not me stirring the dying embers of Raina's passion for abuse. Would love to but just don't have the time. But here's an idea: why not get Raina signed up with some really interesting chat group where they discuss the pro's and con's of things like MP3 internet music or perhaps past life memories or something. Hers is a voice that should get out there (not that it isn't already but, well, you know what I mean.)
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Date: Wed, May 31, 2000 at 01:51:48 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: I'm too busy will have to pass
Message:
Good to hear you aren't concerned about well... ha! I'll leave
it at that, as they say 'it's too easy'
Good luck with the trial.
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Date: Tues, May 30, 2000 at 22:27:31 (GMT)
From: jondon
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Howie Carr update
Message:
Have been in touch with the Howie Carr show. The woman that screened my call (regarding another topic) was familiar with M, and knew a Premie in DC. She asked that any email sent to howiecarr@mindspring.com, show GURU in the subject. She will personally get the message to him. He has done a show on cults in the past, but she thinks he may do a segment on M.

You can listen to his show on the net at www.wrko.com, just click on the attenna after it has loaded and listen in. I mentioned that if she did get him to do the show, he would get some callers. I'll keep you informed on date and phone number (1-877-howiecarr) so you can call in. Or call in now and mention to Sandy about the upcoming event and giver some insight.

I have sent an email regarding the basics and put the intro to this site on it. I will send them a copy of LOTU, for kicks if nothing else.

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Date: Tues, May 30, 2000 at 23:56:58 (GMT)
From: Zelda
Email: None
To: jondon
Subject: Howie Carr update
Message:
that great.
We have emeiled him and look forward to the developements.
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Date: Tues, May 30, 2000 at 23:53:20 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: jondon
Subject: Who is Howie Carr?
Message:
And how did he get a name like that???

Seriously, is he a radio or TV personality of some sort? Is he in the DC area, or nationwide?

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Date: Wed, May 31, 2000 at 02:11:48 (GMT)
From: jondon
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Who is Howie Carr?
Message:
Howie is an afternoon AM Talk show host. He does not shoot from the groin, like Howard Stern. He likes to cover current events, contemporary things, usually in and around Boston, New England, but also national stuff. He takes calls and lets people voice their opinions about the subject of the day. You get the pros and the cons. Usually interesting stuff. Often in a humourous vein. I think he'll get a kick out of M's case, being a con man and all.

I figure, what the hell, any publicity is bad publicity for M. Maybe it'll get some curious folk to stroll down to Copley during their lunch break to see the freak show outside of the building. Guys walking around with lotus flowers in their hands saying 'huh,......huh......huh......'

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Date: Wed, May 31, 2000 at 01:02:34 (GMT)
From: Monmot
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Who is Howie Carr?
Message:
Howie Carr is a columnist for the Boston Globe, and also a radio personality. If my memory serves me correctly, he's quite a controversial figure. Kinda Howard Stern-ish.
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Date: Tues, May 30, 2000 at 23:39:05 (GMT)
From: Elaine
Email: None
To: jondon
Subject: Howie Carr update
Message:
This should be great. Thanks for the update. Maybe you could request a live on air interview with M while he's in town.
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