Joey -:- Oh Mercy (MRC) Me!! -:- Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 22:07:29 (GMT)

__ Nameless Ex -:- Enquiring minds want to know -:- Tues, Jun 13, 2000 at 00:39:31 (GMT)

__ I like the MRC letter -:- OK, Joey, if you're so smart... -:- Mon, Jun 12, 2000 at 17:01:23 (GMT)

__ Jim -:- Hey, good thinking, Joey! -:- Sun, Jun 11, 2000 at 00:02:02 (GMT)

__ __ Joey -:- Hey, good thinking, Joey! -:- Sun, Jun 11, 2000 at 01:09:51 (GMT)

__ __ __ MRC -:- Our Motivations -:- Sun, Jun 11, 2000 at 03:58:54 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Joey -:- Your Motivations -:- Sun, Jun 11, 2000 at 05:38:18 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ MRC -:- Your Opinion -:- Mon, Jun 12, 2000 at 16:58:42 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Nigel -:- Your Motivations -:- Sun, Jun 11, 2000 at 20:22:04 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Joey -:- Your Motivations -:- Mon, Jun 12, 2000 at 14:58:04 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ MRC member -:- what is inherently wrong with helping M? -:- Mon, Jun 12, 2000 at 16:10:16 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Joey -:- I'm not into helping cult leaders. -:- Mon, Jun 12, 2000 at 16:17:18 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Nigel -:- Neither am I... -:- Mon, Jun 12, 2000 at 18:07:56 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Joey -:- Nor was I... -:- Tues, Jun 13, 2000 at 03:09:45 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Not so fast, Joey -:- Tues, Jun 13, 2000 at 15:18:01 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Joey -:- Not so fast, Jim -:- Tues, Jun 13, 2000 at 15:56:33 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- Agree with Joey -:- Mon, Jun 12, 2000 at 16:41:27 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Do you have any friends, Joey? -:- Mon, Jun 12, 2000 at 15:29:39 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Katie -:- Motivations -:- Sun, Jun 11, 2000 at 16:25:02 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Joey. -:- Motivations -:- Mon, Jun 12, 2000 at 15:29:29 (GMT)

__ __ __ Gecko -:- Rock -:- Sun, Jun 11, 2000 at 01:29:21 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Joey -:- Plant -:- Sun, Jun 11, 2000 at 05:45:29 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Gecko -:- Plant -:- Sun, Jun 11, 2000 at 15:54:43 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Joey -:- Plant -:- Mon, Jun 12, 2000 at 02:58:38 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ King Rat -:- Gecko, your cover is being blown -:- Mon, Jun 12, 2000 at 20:43:54 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Joesph McCarthy -:- Are you or have you ever been a follower... -:- Tues, Jun 13, 2000 at 04:48:12 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Joseph Faywlowicz -:- Are you or have you ever been a follower... -:- Tues, Jun 13, 2000 at 06:04:03 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Hiding From Sickos Like -:- Joey - one reason that people hide -:- Tues, Jun 13, 2000 at 17:03:17 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Joey -:- For how long do you think you can pull this off ?? -:- Tues, Jun 13, 2000 at 17:10:22 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Roger eDrek -:- B.I.N.G.O.! The man is a winner! -:- Tues, Jun 13, 2000 at 22:11:33 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Joey -:- B.I.N.G.O.! The man is a geecko!... -:- Wed, Jun 14, 2000 at 02:56:37 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Roger eDrek -:- Joey has gone mental again! (nt) -:- Wed, Jun 14, 2000 at 04:36:33 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Robyn -:- Paper -:- Sun, Jun 11, 2000 at 11:11:31 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Joey -:- Hi Robyn! -:- Mon, Jun 12, 2000 at 03:30:31 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Robyn -:- Hi Robyn! -:- Mon, Jun 12, 2000 at 20:25:11 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Joey -:- Hi Robyn! -:- Tues, Jun 13, 2000 at 01:25:35 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ FYI -:- Paper Covers rock. (N.T.) -:- Mon, Jun 12, 2000 at 21:31:58 (GMT)

Gregg -:- Our beloved Satguru on Mother Meera's page... -:- Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 21:23:05 (GMT)

__ blood -:- linked to mother meera discussion -:- Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 23:00:58 (GMT)

__ __ Gilead -:- linked to mother meera discussion -:- Sun, Jun 11, 2000 at 01:24:47 (GMT)

cq -:- Toe-jam footballs? -:- Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 15:24:02 (GMT)

__ jondon -:- Reminds me of ... -:- Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 17:47:09 (GMT)

__ __ cq -:- ... sounds like it's in your own hands! (nt) -:- Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 17:53:25 (GMT)

__ Gregg -:- Come together, right now, over Me. -:- Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 16:53:07 (GMT)

ET -:- Maharaji is the reincarnation of Hitler -:- Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 13:37:22 (GMT)

__ [edited] -:- [edited] -:- Mon, Jun 12, 2000 at 14:27:01 (GMT)

__ __ Jim -:- FA'S -- I DIDN'T WRITE THE ABOVE POST!!!!!!!!!! -:- Mon, Jun 12, 2000 at 15:01:19 (GMT)

__ __ __ Jim -:- ****FA'S -- PLEASE RESPOND**** -:- Tues, Jun 13, 2000 at 02:30:08 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ forum admin -:- ****FA'S -- PLEASE RESPOND**** -:- Tues, Jun 13, 2000 at 06:55:13 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Thanks, but will you let us know if you find out? -:- Tues, Jun 13, 2000 at 15:27:04 (GMT)

__ __ __ Joey -:- FA'S -- I DIDN'T WRITE THE ABOVE POST!!!!!!!!!! -:- Mon, Jun 12, 2000 at 15:55:39 (GMT)

__ Katie -:- No Way! -:- Sun, Jun 11, 2000 at 16:32:28 (GMT)

__ __ (Sir) David -:- No Way! -:- Mon, Jun 12, 2000 at 00:47:08 (GMT)

__ __ __ gerrry -:- No Way! -:- Mon, Jun 12, 2000 at 01:05:36 (GMT)

__ Rob -:- War Crimes Trials? -:- Sun, Jun 11, 2000 at 02:35:15 (GMT)

__ __ Elaine -:- Great description of John K. (nt) -:- Sun, Jun 11, 2000 at 17:41:37 (GMT)

__ __ gerry -:- Oh Bullshit Rob -:- Sun, Jun 11, 2000 at 04:55:59 (GMT)

__ __ __ Rob -:- The story wasn't for sale -:- Mon, Jun 12, 2000 at 01:27:46 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ gerry -:- since you asked... -:- Mon, Jun 12, 2000 at 02:36:24 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Rob -:- Uncle -:- Mon, Jun 12, 2000 at 02:50:03 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Rob -:- Maybe this will lift the mood some -:- Mon, Jun 12, 2000 at 02:54:53 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Rob -:- Buggered the link up, try this -:- Mon, Jun 12, 2000 at 02:59:33 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- Who are you? Where do you live? -:- Mon, Jun 12, 2000 at 04:44:28 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Rob -:- Holy shit gerry, why don't you just send me a form -:- Tues, Jun 13, 2000 at 01:52:12 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- Holy shit gerry, why don't you just send me a form -:- Tues, Jun 13, 2000 at 17:20:33 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Rob -:- Privacy etc -:- Tues, Jun 13, 2000 at 18:50:37 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Marianne -:- Holy shit gerry, why don't you just send me a form -:- Tues, Jun 13, 2000 at 02:42:18 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Rob -:- Really? So which part(s) do YOU disbelieve? -:- Tues, Jun 13, 2000 at 04:35:59 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Marianne -:- Really? So which part(s) do YOU disbelieve? -:- Tues, Jun 13, 2000 at 05:22:27 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Rob -:- My last word on this -:- Tues, Jun 13, 2000 at 17:12:13 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Katie -:- Hey Rob... -:- Wed, Jun 14, 2000 at 02:41:31 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- You really are just a shit-stirrer, aren't you, Ro -:- Tues, Jun 13, 2000 at 17:28:03 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Rob -:- And you are expressing cult-like tendancies -:- Tues, Jun 13, 2000 at 18:24:17 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- That's a lie, Robbie baby -:- Wed, Jun 14, 2000 at 01:42:56 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Rob -:- Maybe yes, maybe no, Jimmie old son, -:- Wed, Jun 14, 2000 at 02:02:29 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Maybe yes, maybe no, Jimmie old son, -:- Wed, Jun 14, 2000 at 02:12:58 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- Cute Rob, you fucking manipulator. -:- Tues, Jun 13, 2000 at 19:07:37 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Rob -:- Make that pitbull tendancies -:- Tues, Jun 13, 2000 at 22:13:02 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- OK, maybe sociopath is tad strong... -:- Wed, Jun 14, 2000 at 02:05:49 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Coem on, Marianne, that's a bit harsh -:- Tues, Jun 13, 2000 at 15:45:36 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ cq -:- Gerry, I have an inkling that this might be a -:- Mon, Jun 12, 2000 at 16:41:42 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- Hey Rob are you the same Rob? -:- Mon, Jun 12, 2000 at 17:19:32 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ cq -:- Not his real name? You mean .. -:- Mon, Jun 12, 2000 at 17:47:48 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- yes, precisely... nt -:- Mon, Jun 12, 2000 at 17:58:23 (GMT)

__ __ __ (Sir) David -:- Oh Bullshit Rob -:- Mon, Jun 12, 2000 at 00:50:05 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Rob -:- Thank you Dave -:- Tues, Jun 13, 2000 at 02:18:59 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ selene -:- well at least you give!! -:- Mon, Jun 12, 2000 at 01:18:58 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Rob -:- well at least you give!! -:- Mon, Jun 12, 2000 at 01:33:25 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- translation attempt -:- Mon, Jun 12, 2000 at 15:25:01 (GMT)

__ Joey -:- Here's your reincarnationn of Hitler...Roger Drek -:- Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 21:36:14 (GMT)

__ __ Jim -:- Hey, come on! Why stop there? -:- Sun, Jun 11, 2000 at 00:05:30 (GMT)

__ __ __ Joey -:- Ok, I'll continue... -:- Sun, Jun 11, 2000 at 01:17:19 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Rob -:- We need to talk -:- Sun, Jun 11, 2000 at 01:27:41 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ King Rat -:- Attention: R-Cubed Cell - meeting tonight -:- Sun, Jun 11, 2000 at 19:27:18 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ selene -:- nO fUC-inn Waaa -:- Mon, Jun 12, 2000 at 06:30:34 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- I don't do Jim, ie call on FAs but... what?? -:- Mon, Jun 12, 2000 at 07:54:57 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Forum admin -:- Selene... -:- Tues, Jun 13, 2000 at 09:37:26 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- thanks -:- Tues, Jun 13, 2000 at 17:32:39 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Katie -:- Hey, I care! -:- Wed, Jun 14, 2000 at 02:23:25 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Joey -:- YOU may have a need to talk Rob... -:- Sun, Jun 11, 2000 at 05:12:28 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Rob -:- Please yourself. -:- Mon, Jun 12, 2000 at 01:12:48 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Joey -:- Rob, it HAS BEEN a pleasure. -:- Mon, Jun 12, 2000 at 03:57:45 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Rob -:- Maybe Jim is right about you -:- Tues, Jun 13, 2000 at 02:00:55 (GMT)

__ Hal -:- Maharaji isn't a reincarnation of Hitler -:- Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 17:58:06 (GMT)

__ __ cq -:- ... he was Harry Houdini (which could be useful)nt -:- Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 18:15:28 (GMT)

__ __ Mother Meera -:- He's Father Divine come again! (nt) -:- Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 18:13:42 (GMT)

__ __ __ Hal -:- More like Humpty Dumpty !!! nt -:- Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 18:17:18 (GMT)

__ raina -:- Here's what u need Jim! An army of ET's. -:- Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 13:53:27 (GMT)

__ __ U dumb? -:- Here's what u need Jim! An army of ET's. -:- Tues, Jun 13, 2000 at 06:14:43 (GMT)

__ __ Jim -:- shut up, raina (nt) -:- Sun, Jun 11, 2000 at 00:09:59 (GMT)

__ __ __ StuartShyster -:- shut up, jim (nt) -:- Sun, Jun 11, 2000 at 05:39:17 (GMT)

Paging -:- Spencer Dickenson -:- Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 08:40:47 (GMT)

__ bb -:- Spencer Dickenson -:- Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 22:00:17 (GMT)

__ __ Front Desk -:- Spencer Dickenson -:- Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 23:04:49 (GMT)

__ __ __ Bill...7952 -:- ***********Tales from Phaffendorf Estates********* -:- Sun, Jun 11, 2000 at 06:19:13 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ bill...2040 -:- Spence -:- Sun, Jun 11, 2000 at 06:26:41 (GMT)

__ jesse helms -:- Spencer Dickenson -:- Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 16:55:31 (GMT)

__ __ To: Jesse Helms -:- Spencer Dickenson -:- Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 21:16:42 (GMT)

__ __ Front desk -:- Spencer Dickenson -:- Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 20:11:05 (GMT)

__ __ __ Jesse Helms -:- Spencer Dickenson -:- Sun, Jun 11, 2000 at 03:00:42 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ gerry -:- Spencer Dickenson-good let's leave him alone -:- Sun, Jun 11, 2000 at 04:58:36 (GMT)

__ WE -:- paging Spencer Dickenson -:- Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 09:11:13 (GMT)

__ __ Front Desk -:- paging Spencer Dickenson -:- Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 10:54:01 (GMT)

FelisNavidad -:- LAKERS WIN -:- Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 05:32:10 (GMT)

__ BigBrotha -:- EX'S LOSE -:- Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 06:10:59 (GMT)

__ __ MoFoRapguy -:- EX-PACERS LOSE -:- Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 23:25:15 (GMT)

Estrogen -:- OT -:- Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 00:41:27 (GMT)

__ Testosterone -:- OT -:- Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 05:54:21 (GMT)

__ __ The real Testosterone -:- OT -:- Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 19:32:27 (GMT)

__ __ Ms Angry -:- JUST BECAUSE!!! - dickhead. You OK with that????? -:- Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 16:09:00 (GMT)

__ __ __ Testosterone -:- Don't worry, be happy Clitface -:- Sun, Jun 11, 2000 at 03:50:36 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ The real Testosterone -:- Fuck you, jerkoff -:- Sun, Jun 11, 2000 at 21:31:03 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Testosterone -:- Fuck you, jerkoff -:- Mon, Jun 12, 2000 at 00:04:35 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- Hey Testy, yer not funny. Piss off why don't you -:- Mon, Jun 12, 2000 at 00:24:08 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Harry -:- Hehehehehehehe........... -:- Mon, Jun 12, 2000 at 06:09:18 (GMT)

__ Helen -:- Hugs and smiles don't do it--give me power,baby -:- Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 04:15:05 (GMT)

__ __ Stonor -:- Well intentioned? -:- Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 04:52:25 (GMT)

__ __ __ Helen -:- Well intentioned? -:- Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 13:51:39 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Stonor -:- Well intentioned? -:- Sun, Jun 11, 2000 at 01:57:20 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Katie -:- Well intentioned? -:- Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 15:25:54 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Harry -:- Opposite sides of the same coin. -:- Sun, Jun 11, 2000 at 11:45:04 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Katie -:- Opposite sides of the same coin. -:- Sun, Jun 11, 2000 at 16:15:14 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Stonor -:- Hi Katie! (ot) -:- Sun, Jun 11, 2000 at 03:42:06 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Helen -:- Hi Katie (ot) -:- Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 23:31:46 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Helen -:- Hi Katie (ot) -:- Sun, Jun 11, 2000 at 01:30:09 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Katie -:- Hi Stonor and Helen (ot) -:- Sun, Jun 11, 2000 at 16:12:33 (GMT)

__ (Sir) David -:- OT -:- Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 02:17:03 (GMT)

Jim -:- Ivette's getting funny again (from ELK) -:- Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 00:25:51 (GMT)

__ Hal -:- Poor wee lassie, -:- Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 20:15:15 (GMT)

Gilead -:- Did Prempal ever make things right with his mum? -:- Fri, Jun 09, 2000 at 21:49:23 (GMT)

__ Loaf -:- No. He called her his ex-mother (nt) -:- Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 07:30:21 (GMT)

Helen -:- Love the green lines under unread posts!(nt) -:- Fri, Jun 09, 2000 at 20:22:22 (GMT)

__ Nigel -:- How come I haven't got any? (nt) -:- Fri, Jun 09, 2000 at 21:35:26 (GMT)

__ __ Roger eDrek -:- Nigel, you ARE evil (nt) -:- Sun, Jun 11, 2000 at 19:28:59 (GMT)

__ __ Helen -:- Tough titty--LOL(nt) -:- Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 04:06:52 (GMT)

__ __ __ Katie -:- I think it's your computer, Helen... -:- Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 15:43:59 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Helen -:- I think it's your computer, Helen... -:- Sun, Jun 11, 2000 at 01:23:35 (GMT)

__ __ Jim -:- Maybe because you haven't come out yet (nt) -:- Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 02:23:20 (GMT)

Date: Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 22:07:29 (GMT) From: Joey Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Oh Mercy (MRC) Me!! Message:

This is our challenge to you. We request that you step down from your pedestal and join your brothers and sisters in the human race. Find your place among us. Treat us as equals with the love and respect you always claimed you had for us. Be one of us. It would free us and those premies still trapped in worshipping you. It might free you in many ways as well. There is so much to be gained by everyone. (emphasis my own) Yes! Yes! Yes! We still need Maharaji to free us. My how we've grown! Well of course it won't be proper to ask m if we can kiss his feet. We've outgrown that! Instead, we can ask him if he can kiss our booboos and make them all go away. After all, according to this MRC campaign....we still need m to help 'free us'. Sorry, but it really is time to water the plants

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Date: Tues, Jun 13, 2000 at 00:39:31 (GMT) From: Nameless Ex Email: None To: Joey Subject: Enquiring minds want to know Message:

Silly me! Imagine my confusion where sometimes I might wonder if perhaps I might be really, really wrong and I'm going to burn in hell for having turned my back on God and then had the audacity to diss the Lord of the Universe. I feel Maharaji should step forward and come clean. It would ease my worried little mind.

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Date: Mon, Jun 12, 2000 at 17:01:23 (GMT) From: I like the MRC letter Email: None To: Joey Subject: OK, Joey, if you're so smart... Message:

It strikes me that you love to criticize and strike out at other people's well intentioned efforts to bring abut some sort of effort that could actually help things for everyone. If you're so smart, why don't you sit down and write a letter that you think would help bring about some sort of understanding, reconciliation and healing that would help everyone involved? Or,maybe we should start with, what exactly is your motivation, as it might not be for understanding, reconciliation and healing.... How about telling us your motivation, and then a letter that would help bring it about..... Fence sitter,looking for intelligent talk...

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Date: Sun, Jun 11, 2000 at 00:02:02 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: Joey Subject: Hey, good thinking, Joey! Message:

Not bad, Joey. Let me see if I follow your 'reasoning' here. Whoever wrote this letter attributed more power to Maharaji than you would. Therefore they're not really ex-anythings but are, instead, sinister cult operatives on a spy mission. There, did I miss anything? Because that's good, Joey. That's very good. You should be proud of your ability to see through things. Good work.

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Date: Sun, Jun 11, 2000 at 01:09:51 (GMT) From: Joey Email: None To: Jim Subject: Hey, good thinking, Joey! Message:

There's more to it than that. I only adressed one paragraph of the MRC letter, and I'll have more to say when necessary, as the situation develops. In the meantime I DO find it very suspect that the individuals involved are still looking to m to help them solve their problems...to 'free us' as the letter states. Now there may indeed be genuine ex-premies involved in this effort, but I don't believe this idea was generated by genuine exes. And I can't help but wonder if those genuine exes who have so eagerly become part of this campaign have really thought through the consequences of their actions.

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Date: Sun, Jun 11, 2000 at 03:58:54 (GMT) From: MRC Email: None To: Joey Subject: Our Motivations Message:

Joey, The MRC is a somewhat diverse group of people, with each person in the group viewing Maharaji from a somewhat different perspective. As we all know, there is no monolithic or universal viewpoint when it comes to Maharaji and his cult. The letter therefore was a compromise and an attempt to address all those viewpoints. Nevertheless, the letter is clear about a number of things I'm sure you would agree with, a number of which include the following, which are CLEARLY stated in the letter: 1. Maharaji has presented himself as divine and he is not, and many of his followers still believe he is, and that has been generally destructive to people; 2. Maharaji is running a cult; 3. He said and did things that caused people to follow him out of fear and were fearful of leaving the cult on moving on, which has damaged the personal growth of his followers; 4. He has failed to take responsibility for his past, his claims to divinity, and being the head of a cult; 5. He better start coming clean and addressing these issues or the public criticism is going to get louder and louder, and his trip is essentially over in the West. We believe these are all important points to make. Perhaps the letter isn't all you would want it to be. That is probably true for everyone. I would suggest that each person involved in the letter had things they wanted to say differently. Regarding the 'freeing us' language, it applies to a number of things. Many current and ex-premies feel that an open dialogue with Maharaji about these issues would help free them from cult programming that still exists in the heads of many of us. Maybe you don't agree, and that is your right, but I woult think that being an extreme purist about this isn't particularly helpful. We are trying to do something rather than just sit back bitching on a forum. One would think you might be just a bit supportive. What is your problem? Are you concerned that a moderately respectful tone, but with unambiguous criticism, will give Maharaji a big head? Get real. Regarding whether we have thought through the consequences of this action, believe me, the group has discussed that very issue more than you could possibiliy imagine. We have certainly thought about the consequences. Thank you for your input. Maharaji Responsibility Campaign

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Date: Sun, Jun 11, 2000 at 05:38:18 (GMT) From: Joey Email: None To: MRC Subject: Your Motivations Message:

Nevertheless, the letter is clear about a number of things I'm sure you would agree with, a number of which include the following, which are CLEARLY stated in the letter: The letter is basically clear about this ONLY. -Maharaji is a cult leader and you want to talk to him about it. It really is as vague and nebulous as that, and as long as it stays that way, your talks with m could end up as fruitful as talking to a thief.... about his being a thief. Regarding the 'freeing us' language, it applies to a number of things. Many current and ex-premies feel that an open dialogue with Maharaji about these issues would help free them from cult programming that still exists in the heads of many of us Again there's only one issue: Maharaji is the leader of a destructive cult. And honest to God, I've talked to several genuine exes on the phone today, and I don't know of ONE who would say that he or she needs to talk to Maharaji to help free them from the cult programming that still exists in their heads. This seems to me to be a particular notion that exists in the minds of the participants of your MRC group. An amazing concept! Having a little chat with your cult leader to help free you from the cult's programming. I don't know whether to laugh or cry!

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Date: Mon, Jun 12, 2000 at 16:58:42 (GMT) From: MRC Email: None To: Joey Subject: Your Opinion Message:

Thank you for your opinion. I'm sure there will be lots more opinions, pro and con, to the letter. I do, however, disagree with your characterization of the letter. The request for a dialogue with Maharaji is just one small part of the letter. We have pointed out a number of problems and asked Maharaji to address them, AND to have a dialogue. Also, keep in mind that Maharaji is only ONE person who might read the letter. The points in the letter are also meant to be considered by premies, non-practicing premies, ex-premies, aspirants, and people who are considering becoming aspirants. There are people who feel that if Maharaji had a dialogue about these issues it would be helpful for people, especially premies who are questioning, and people who aren't practicing premies but haven't given up on the notion that M is divine.. Others think it would be a cold day in hell before Maharaji even considered participating in an open dialogue, but feel the request is worthwhile because his nonresponsiveness to a reasonable request will make a very strong statement to that same groups of people mentioned above.

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Date: Sun, Jun 11, 2000 at 20:22:04 (GMT) From: Nigel Email: fitzroy@liverpool.ac.uk To: Joey Subject: Your Motivations Message:

Joey: I agree that most exes no longer need Maharaji's help in freeing themselves. But what about present-day premies? The guru-dependence seems as strong today as it ever was and surely a 'come-clean' statement from the object of premie dependence would go a long way in enabling that process. It wouldn't mean M was doing anything noble or praiseworthy; merely that he was behaving, for once - for the first time, even - like a responsible human being. It might even help him..?! (if such a thing is possible). The MRC's motivations look pretty sound to me.

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Date: Mon, Jun 12, 2000 at 14:58:04 (GMT) From: Joey Email: None To: Nigel Subject: Your Motivations Message:

In a nutshell, this is precisely what concerns me here. As you put it: It might even help him..?! I'm sorry Nigel, but I'm NOT INTO helping Maharaji. And I hope you won't think too badly of me for saying so.

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Date: Mon, Jun 12, 2000 at 16:10:16 (GMT) From: MRC member Email: None To: Joey Subject: what is inherently wrong with helping M? Message:

I don't believe he will respond to the letter, most of the people who worked on it don't believe he will respond. But, that doesn't mean it isn't worth asking him to do the right thing. Let's just say, somehow, we were able to get through to him, that not only is it best for both present and former premies, but also it is best for him, if he DEALS with it. IF he were to do that, it would help A LOT of people. It would even help ex's I think. And yes, it would help him. If he really had it in him to do something like this, maybe he would be worth helping, just simply as another fellow human being.

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Date: Mon, Jun 12, 2000 at 16:17:18 (GMT) From: Joey Email: None To: MRC member Subject: I'm not into helping cult leaders. Message:

I've asked for a response from a genuine ex who has been posting under their own name, a person who can be identified and recognized, and who has participated in the writing of this MRC letter. As of yet, no such person has come forward.

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Date: Mon, Jun 12, 2000 at 18:07:56 (GMT) From: Nigel Email: fitzroy@liverpool.ac.uk To: Joey Subject: Neither am I... Message:

...but that might be a by-product of the good a confession might do for current premies (which was my main point). And really I meant 'help him' in the sense of 'do him some good' - and it would probably be a pretty painful experience for him to have to confront it all honestly. Much more so than carry on ignoring the harm he has done, and continues to do. I don't actually believe M will ever talk to his critics (unless he was called as witness in a law court) - but I think the MRC's campaign could still be really useful in just laying the issues out in the open. Guess we'll have to wait and see...

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Date: Tues, Jun 13, 2000 at 03:09:45 (GMT) From: Joey Email: None To: Nigel Subject: Nor was I... Message:

...suggesting that you wanted to help m. But there were those words,'It might even help him', and I really was wondering what exactly you meant by that, and I appreciate your explanation. And really I meant 'help him' in the sense of 'do him some good' - and it would probably be a pretty painful experience for him to have to confront it all honestly. I just can't see him dealing with it honestly. I CAN see him dealing with it in a controlled and manipulated setting. Where the agenda is framed in such a way so that m can avoid confronting the issues honestly. That I can see. I don't actually believe M will ever talk to his critics (unless he was called as witness in a law court... I'm not so sure. I think he's fishing for an opprtunity to meet his critics in the type of setting I described above. Perhaps even desperately , because if he continues to do nothing, he and his cult are destined for nothing but a 'gradual meltdown'. (I just love using Joe's phrases :) Look at the possibility. If he even partially succeeds in peddling off some crocodile tears, meaningless apologies, irrelevant and vacuos explanations, avoidance of issues and of course his outright lies and deception to boot....as some kind of 'sincere' effort, then he can take some steam away from his critics which could only help him in preventing that day in court. And if it spins well enough, it might even help him avoid that gradual meltdown, and revive the cult a little as the 'former cult' cult, and I've done my own skeptical spinning of that scenario in a post below in this thread. ... but I think the MRC's campaign could still be really useful in just laying the issues out in the open. I believe, from a PR point of view, the most damaging of the objections outlined in Way's exellent letter were left out in this MRC version. That's a shame, but heck it wasn't my money that paid for that ad in the Boston Phoenix, so the people who paid for it get to call the shots. Just who were they?? :) And indeed, why all the secrecy as Gerry put it? Finally Nigel, I agree with you completely on this. Guess we'll have to wait and see... You bet! :) For now, g'nite and thanks for the feedback.

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Date: Tues, Jun 13, 2000 at 15:18:01 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: Joey Subject: Not so fast, Joey Message:

Joey, Who the fuck do you think you are that you can come out with both barrels shooting, immediately jumping to a very crazy (and, dear brother, I can tell you in no uncertain terms, DEAD WRONG) accusation like you did and then expect some sort of dialogue. Fuck off, you crazy feak! Didn't you ever learn any manners anywhere ('Jim said this? What, is he mad?' Well, fuck you too!). This is exactly what you did with Drek, you idiot. He put up some stuff on his page that you, Joey, didn't think had quite the right tone, followed quite the right priorities and now, to this day, you still accuse him of being a 'premie plant'. In spite of all sorts of exes bending over backwards to set you right, Drek included, all the people who patinetly tried to explain their real-life relationship with him and all that shit, you still, unreasonably -- hey, fuck that -- INSANELY, to this day, still attack him. Fuck you, idiot. You deserve no explanation for nothing! Do you understand that? Forget all the discussion you'd like to have; you don't deserve it! Not until you apologize to Drek and MRC. And even then, I wonder, why either would ever want to bother.

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Date: Tues, Jun 13, 2000 at 15:56:33 (GMT) From: Joey Email: None To: Jim Subject: Not so fast, Jim Message:

Nice of you to provide the link between the one who calls himself Roger Drek (and god knows whatever else) and the MRC. Now this whole sordid and secretive puzzle is starting to come together. BUT THIS...is cute, very cute! Fuck off, you crazy feak! Didn't you ever learn any manners anywhere .... Are you offerring lessons on 'manners' now??? Yup. I'm sure there'll be throngs of people lining up for your class. Just to observe the pure comedy of it all.

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Date: Mon, Jun 12, 2000 at 16:41:27 (GMT) From: gerry Email: None To: Joey Subject: Agree with Joey Message:

I don't understand way the MRC is so secretive. What is that they don't want us to know?

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Date: Mon, Jun 12, 2000 at 15:29:39 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: Joey Subject: Do you have any friends, Joey? Message:

Joey, I have to ask you the same question I asked Raiana. Do you have any friends? What happens when they get it wrong a bit? Say you want to go for Chinese and they want Greek (I was going to say 'Indian' but then you'd really think I was a plant, huh? Maybe Maharaji himself?)? Do you go compeltely ballistic on them, accuse them of being walk-ins or something: 'My friend, Tom, would never choose Greek over Chinese, not when he just had Greek last week and I know for a fact that he hasn't had Chinese food for ovr a month now! I'm calling the police!' Is that how it goes in the private life of Joey Faylowitz?

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Date: Sun, Jun 11, 2000 at 16:25:02 (GMT) From: Katie Email: None To: Joey Subject: Motivations Message:

Hi Joey - First, I (obviously) am not a member of the MRC, and I don't agree with everything in the letter. Also, I am pretty cynical about the idea of EVER getting an honest response from Maharaji. I don't have a problem with you pointing out how your feelings about Maharaji differ from the feelings of the people who wrote the letter. But I believe that the letter is sincere. Although it certainly doesn't express the feelings of many people who post on the ex-premie forum, it doesn't pretend or imply to do that, so what's the problem? Also, in re 'plants' - it clearly says that the letter was written by premies AND ex-premies (and others). Over the past few years, I have communicated with lots of recent exes, confused premies, people 'on-the-fence' and so forth, and one thing most of these people would like is a response from or dialogue with Maharaji. Thus I don't think it's an unreasonable thing to ask for, and I don't think the letter is weird - many people I've spoken to have similar feelings. Take care, Joey - Katie

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Date: Mon, Jun 12, 2000 at 15:29:29 (GMT) From: Joey. Email: None To: Katie Subject: Motivations Message:

Hi Katie- First off it really isn't obvious at all to me who is and who isn't a member of this MRC. I'd really be interested in hearing from a genuine ex who has been posting on the forum under their own name, and has contributed to the writing of the letter to the 'former master'. Yes I do have a problem with this campaign and you hit the nail on the head, at least as far as I'm concerned, when you expressed it this way: Also, I am pretty cynical about the idea of EVER getting an honest response from Maharaji. That said, because m must really be so desperate these days, it's entirely possible that he might actually respond. In a DISHONEST fashion, designed to keep his cult alive as the 'former cult' cult. As I replied to Nigel, I'm really not into helping Maharaji. Katie, you also said this. Over the past few years, I have communicated with lots of recent exes, confused premies, people 'on-the-fence' and so forth, and one thing most of these people would like is a response from or dialogue with Maharaji. I believe confused premies and those sitting on the fence are looking for a dialogue with M, because they see it as the only way to keep the dream alive. Their hope is that M will say something or do something that will fix the booboo. Rather than taking directions from confused premies, it might be better if we offered them some. As far as recent exes are concerned, again I have to repeat that I haven't spoken to one, who has felt that a dialogue of this nature based on the wishy-washy objections to m contained in the MRC letter, to be a positive development. They're concerned as I am that Nigel may be right. 'It might even help him' And that's the point of my speaking out on this issue. That's what motivates me. I don't want to help Maharaji. Take care Katie, Joey (PS: Especially take care of your shoulder-arm. Ouch...I've had a shoulder injury myself. I hope it heals quickly.)

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Date: Sun, Jun 11, 2000 at 01:29:21 (GMT) From: Gecko Email: None To: Joey Subject: Rock Message:

Go crawl back under a rock, Joey. You don't know what you're talking about.

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Date: Sun, Jun 11, 2000 at 05:45:29 (GMT) From: Joey Email: None To: Gecko Subject: Plant Message:

Hey Geecko, I'm the one posting under my own name. Like the one who posts under the name of Roger Drek, you seem unable to do that. Then again , you're probably one and the same person, or plant or whatever.

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Date: Sun, Jun 11, 2000 at 15:54:43 (GMT) From: Gecko Email: None To: Joey Subject: Plant Message:

I'm just one of those people who doesn't want to become the focus of your baseless diatribes, Joey. That's why I'm not using my real name. And I ain't drek, you can be shooorrrre of that. Instead of attacking the MRC people, perhaps you could be more supportive for a change. People have different reasons for believing and feeling what they do about the former master. Just because your experience is different does not invalidate theirs. And just maybe some of those exes you spoke to on the telephone WERE MRC people who did not want to identify themselves to you. Give that a thought.

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Date: Mon, Jun 12, 2000 at 02:58:38 (GMT) From: Joey Email: None To: Gecko Subject: Plant Message:

I'm just one of those people who doesn't want to become the focus of your baseless diatribes, Joey. That's why I'm not using my real name. And I ain't drek, you can be shooorrrre of that. You've given me no reason to take you at face value here. Your own post is 'baseless diatribe'. Instead of attacking the MRC people, perhaps you could be more supportive for a change. I believe there's room for a vigorous debate and some discussion on the subject. Does that scare you, whoever you are? People have different reasons for believing and feeling what they do about the former master Could this be a tip off from the cult?!? Maharaji has now become 'THE FORMER MASTER MAHARAJI'...is that it? I love it! I love it! I love it! The PR and marketing potential is incredible!! Now I wonder how the former master and his former premies are going to celebrate? A big event, maybe even some tours to celebrate the cult's rite of passage into becoming a former cult. And lets not forget the commemorative videos, audio tapes, and cofee mugs with swans on them to celebrate the former master, his former premies, and the former cult. Ooops,I forgot about special satellite feeds. (BTW, have you heard anything about Maharaji becoming the former businessman and investor? :) And just maybe some of those exes you spoke to on the telephone WERE MRC people who did not want to identify themselves to you. Give that a thought. Hey Geecko, give THIS a thought. You're full of shit. These were people I knew well. And who's kidding who here? Like there are so many of you MRC PEOPLE out there...but NOT ONE genuine ex who has been posting on the forum under their own name has been willing to come forward and identify themselves as part of this group that conceived of and wrote the letter to the former master I'm waiting, but its NOT YOU I want to hear from. But hey, you can always post as the former Geecko::))

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Date: Mon, Jun 12, 2000 at 20:43:54 (GMT) From: King Rat Email: None To: Joey Subject: Gecko, your cover is being blown Message:

Gecko, For your extended effort I will award you with a special plaque the next time you come to the residence with the other Amtext elite. However, it looks like my pal, Joey, is onto you. He's too sharp. Again and again he has spotted all of our operatives.

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Date: Tues, Jun 13, 2000 at 04:48:12 (GMT) From: Joesph McCarthy Email: None To: King Rat Subject: Are you or have you ever been a follower... Message:

Guru Maharaji?

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Date: Tues, Jun 13, 2000 at 06:04:03 (GMT) From: Joseph Faywlowicz Email: None To: Joesph McCarthy Subject: Are you or have you ever been a follower... Message:

That's really not the question. The question really should be: Why the fuck do we have so many anonymous dweebie trolls on this forum?!?

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Date: Tues, Jun 13, 2000 at 17:03:17 (GMT) From: Hiding From Sickos Like Email: None To: Joseph Faywlowicz Subject: Joey - one reason that people hide Message:

Joey, it's pretty clear, isn't it? No, wait, I might be wrong. Of course, why don't I see the simple truth that you, Joey Faywlowicz, are the only one here who is Sane and the rest of us are plants doing Maharaji's work. Isn't it obvious why we might want to hide our identities? Why? Because there are people like you here. Joey, you are a lunatic. It's plain to see. I doubt at this point in time that you have very many allies here at all. Furthermore, Joey, you exhibit behaviors that, to be quite frank, scare me. Speaking for myself, I am nervously anticipating the day when you go over the top and we read about you in the evening paper or see you on the telly. And, Joey, I don't want to be a victim of your psychopathic, schizophrenic, paranoid rampage.

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Date: Tues, Jun 13, 2000 at 17:10:22 (GMT) From: Joey Email: None To: Hiding From Sickos Like Subject: For how long do you think you can pull this off ?? Message:

Anyone reading this will instantly recognize it as the work of true sickos.... like the former Roger Drek :::))

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Date: Tues, Jun 13, 2000 at 22:11:33 (GMT) From: Roger eDrek Email: drek@oz.net To: Joey Subject: B.I.N.G.O.! The man is a winner! Message:

You're abso-fucking-lutely right Joey! I will not deny you your hard earned victory. But, what have you won this time? Come on, Joey. Give peace a chance. Stop the name-calling. Stop your diatribes. It's fairly safe to say that most of us, including you and me, are on the same side here. Like you, I believe that there are some plants here or self-elected defenders of Maharaji playing little mind games.

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Date: Wed, Jun 14, 2000 at 02:56:37 (GMT) From: Joey Email: None To: Roger eDrek Subject: B.I.N.G.O.! The man is a geecko!... Message:

...among god only knows what else. Your a fucking gas. Here in this post you're asking me to 'give peace a chance', but 30 minutes later, and I haven't even had a chance to reply, and you're posting 'Time to get rid of Sicko'. Like your brother Rob, and your sister Mary, you're constantly jerking people around. Now fuck off and die!

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Date: Wed, Jun 14, 2000 at 04:36:33 (GMT) From: Roger eDrek Email: drek@oz.net To: Joey Subject: Joey has gone mental again! (nt) Message:

mental mental mental mental mental mental mental mental mental mental mental mental mental mental mental mental mental mental

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Date: Sun, Jun 11, 2000 at 11:11:31 (GMT) From: Robyn Email: None To: Joey Subject: Paper Message:

Is this that game? Rock, Sissors, Paper? If it is Joey, you are just a tad off. :) Robyn

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Date: Mon, Jun 12, 2000 at 03:30:31 (GMT) From: Joey Email: None To: Robyn Subject: Hi Robyn! Message:

Sorry ...I wasn't thinking kids games. Now I'm sure I must have played it as a kid, but I don't even remember how 'Rocks, Scissors, Paper' is played. Can you remind me? ( I can't believe you got me going on this! :) BTW, nice hearing from you. Joey

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Date: Mon, Jun 12, 2000 at 20:25:11 (GMT) From: Robyn Email: None To: Joey Subject: Hi Robyn! Message:

Dear Joey, Do you know that game where you choose evens or odds, it is something like that, rock breaks sissors, sissors cut paper, what the hell does paper do!? :) Can't remember, the post subjects just triggered a faint memory from the past! :) Love, Robyn

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Date: Tues, Jun 13, 2000 at 01:25:35 (GMT) From: Joey Email: None To: Robyn Subject: Hi Robyn! Message:

Dear Robyn, Still can't visualize it, but I'll find out. It's definitely not one that I played often, so it probably wasn't my favorite. 'Spin the bottle' was a lot more fun :) Love, Joey

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Date: Mon, Jun 12, 2000 at 21:31:58 (GMT) From: FYI Email: None To: Robyn Subject: Paper Covers rock. (N.T.) Message:

ggggggggggggggggg

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Date: Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 21:23:05 (GMT) From: Gregg Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Our beloved Satguru on Mother Meera's page... Message:

After the recent post here about Mother Meera, I thought I'd check out her shtick. Turns out there is a discussion about GMJ at the top of the chat room. Not beiong able to embed links, I'll tell you how to get there if you're interested. Do a Google search for 'mother meera'...the fourth site down in The Mother Main Page (not 'Mother Meera's Home Page.') Go to the bottom of the page, click on discussion area. Most of the discussion seems to be anti-Mother Meera, by the way.

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Date: Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 23:00:58 (GMT) From: blood Email: None To: Gregg Subject: linked to mother meera discussion Message:

mother meera discussion board with GMJ topic being discussed

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Date: Sun, Jun 11, 2000 at 01:24:47 (GMT) From: Gilead Email: None To: blood Subject: linked to mother meera discussion Message:

I have a lot of 'gratitude' for TVTV's production of The Lord of the Universe, as it shows first hand footage of GMJ making a fool of his self, and also Mata Ji and his older brother, Satpal. On that tape, Satpal says he has no status in the Divine Light Mission, his job is just for people to kiss his feet (darshan) Sounds humble? I'm the agitator who tried getting original footage from Visions. They are less than honest with an inquiry. Based on my contacts with them, they claim that even though M's message has not changed, they will not release those tapes to the public, as they are on 35mm film, and it would cost thousands to get them on a video (pocket change for a group that buys mansions and jets for its leader, I would think!). If it were not for this web site (I was a latecomer, hearing Mr. M. in his Elan Vital group, as he now poses as a professional, dressing in suits, and saying he is not a religious leader, etc.) I would not have known the sad facts about the so-called holy family. So in a nutshell, special thanks to this web site and to TVTV for producing that video!!! Maybe whoever owns this web site could get hooked up with amazon.com, which sells the video for $29.99 Someone I know stated that you can get a commission if you refer customers to amazon.com, and it may help pay for the web site.

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Date: Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 15:24:02 (GMT) From: cq Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Toe-jam footballs? Message:

Here's a good old one from the early days: (more here courtesy of ex-premie.org) I wonder what Mr Rawat now thinks of this: Q: What happens when the physical body of the Lord dies? Does devotion die? GMJ: No. You know, when you are attached to the Lotus Feet, to the radiance, to the bliss of the physical form, it is forever. If a devotee comes to this earth with the Lord, and he is completely devoted, 'he' is no more 'he'. He has merged completely into the Lord. 'He' is no more 'he'. It is like this. This is Lord, right, and this is 'he' and he goes and fixes himself here. (Maharaj Ji puts chalk between His toes.)

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Date: Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 17:47:09 (GMT) From: jondon Email: None To: all Subject: Reminds me of ... Message:

Father Guido Sarducci's take about where we go when we die. You go to God and he tabulates $6.95 a day for the days you were alive. Then you have to 'Pay for your sins', Murder=$100,000 Stealing=$50.00, Lying = $5.00, Masterbation = $0.25. But that can add up after a while. .25+.25+.25=.25...... And after you have paid for your sins, if you have any cash left, you can buy your way in to heaven. If you don't have any cash left, you gotta go back. And lately, I'm having this terrible recurring nightmare. I'm standing there paying God for my sins.....And I am just $0.25 short.

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Date: Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 17:53:25 (GMT) From: cq Email: None To: jondon Subject: ... sounds like it's in your own hands! (nt) Message:

... sounds like it's in your own hands! (nt)

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Date: Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 16:53:07 (GMT) From: Gregg Email: None To: cq Subject: Come together, right now, over Me. Message:

I skimmed through that Q & A whose link you provided, cq. There were all kinds of little gems in there. For example, it turns out that to be a Perfect Master one needs to be not only 'perfectly realized,' whatever that means, but one also has to be 'without sin.' Hmmm. Wonder how Rawat's done on that score. And let's say, for the sake of argument, that he WAS the Perfect Master when he was, say, on the brink of pubescence. Even the most generous of observers (PWK's excluded, I guess) would have to say that the guru has sinned a few times. I mean, he's only human, right? So does that mean he's no longer Perfect Master? Oh yeah, also repeated in that Q & A was the assertion that there can be ONLY ONE Perfect Master, a claim I had a hard time believing even in the throes of devotion to the Lotus Feet. I still had a few left-brain synapses firing, and the idea that there was only One Way didn't make any more sense to me then than it does to me now when I here Christians tell me I'm going to hell cuz I don't believe the way they believe. And speaking of Hell, this is what is most interesting about that antique Q & A you posted: Maharaj Ji actually made a stab at theological reasoning back then. He had a bit of substance in his satsang. Sure, it was kind of half-baked Hinduism, but not bad for a kid. And the carburetor analogies were kind of charming compared to the more pompous speeches delivered by the average traveling Hindu salesman back then. Maharaj Ji Lite is not the most fascinating cult leader to follow these days, with the tired old 'go within, find peace' satsang he's delivering these days. Sometimes I'm not sure why we bother.

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Date: Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 13:37:22 (GMT) From: ET Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Maharaji is the reincarnation of Hitler Message:

A weird feeling struck me. Guru Maharaj Ji is the reincarnation of Hitler. He was forgiven by God for offering the burnt offering of the Jews in human sacrifice. He took birth and tried it again. In a perverse way, he aquired merit. Without him, there would be no Israel, no Jewish Messiah. Seig heil! Bhole shri satgurudev maharaj ki jai! Jai Satguru Deva

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Date: Mon, Jun 12, 2000 at 14:27:01 (GMT) From: [edited] Email: None To: ET Subject: [edited] Message:

[edited by forum admin]

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Date: Mon, Jun 12, 2000 at 15:01:19 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: Jim Subject: FA'S -- I DIDN'T WRITE THE ABOVE POST!!!!!!!!!! Message:

Dear FA's. I did not write the above post. Would you please find out who did and let us all know? Then would you please kick them the hell out of here? All this stupid fucking anonymity!

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Date: Tues, Jun 13, 2000 at 02:30:08 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: Jim Subject: ****FA'S -- PLEASE RESPOND**** Message:

I really want you to find out who posted that post under my name. I think I have a right to know; we all do. Please.

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Date: Tues, Jun 13, 2000 at 06:55:13 (GMT) From: forum admin Email: None To: Jim Subject: ****FA'S -- PLEASE RESPOND**** Message:

Not sure yet who submitted the post but the content has been removed and we'll try to keep the perpetrator off the forum. Thanks for the alert.

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Date: Tues, Jun 13, 2000 at 15:27:04 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: forum admin Subject: Thanks, but will you let us know if you find out? Message:

Appreciate it. Would also appreciate knowing who's up to such infantile tricks.

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Date: Mon, Jun 12, 2000 at 15:55:39 (GMT) From: Joey Email: None To: Jim Subject: FA'S -- I DIDN'T WRITE THE ABOVE POST!!!!!!!!!! Message:

Yes. I second the motion. Even if it's Jim's.

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Date: Sun, Jun 11, 2000 at 16:32:28 (GMT) From: Katie Email: None To: ET Subject: No Way! Message:

What? I think you are giving Maharaji FAR too much importance by comparing him to Hitler! M is basically small potatoes and has had VERY little effect on the world in general - something that's forgotten on the forum at times because we focus on him. Besides, every time someone mentions Hitler on here, everyone goes nuts...

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Date: Mon, Jun 12, 2000 at 00:47:08 (GMT) From: (Sir) David Email: None To: Katie Subject: No Way! Message:

Absolutely correct, Katie. Hitler transformed a continent into a war zone and mobilised vast armies against each other. Maharaji just conned a few thousand people into staying in a cult.

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Date: Mon, Jun 12, 2000 at 01:05:36 (GMT) From: gerrry Email: None To: (Sir) David Subject: No Way! Message:

Yes, and he did it with the financial backing of Grampa Bush among others. (Hitler, not goober, that is.)

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Date: Sun, Jun 11, 2000 at 02:35:15 (GMT) From: Rob Email: None To: ET Subject: War Crimes Trials? Message:

I doubt it will ever come to that, but I believe that there should be many others called to answer for their actions should the big M. ever be taken to task over his exploits. One who readily springs to mind is John Knight. A tall, dour man with a permanent, disdainful sneer. In 1979 John went on a tour of England to press-gang people into the ashrams. His target group were single, unattached premies. *Special* meetings were arranged around the country, to which those who were invited were expected to attend. How I wish I had a copy of the tape - because back then it was not uncommon for visiting initiators to be audio taped at programs. The gist of his spiel went something like: 'If you have Knowledge, are unmarried and not living in the ashram, then you are slaves of your minds. You should dedicate yourselves to Guru Maharaj Ji etc etc' The guilt was heavily laid on. I was one of many 'granted' a special interview with John, during the course of which the pressure was increased. Out of guilt, fear or both, I succumbed. I was assigned to an ashram in London. I dont recall the address now, but the housefather was a large, illiterate oaf by the name of Frank, who's repetitive boast was that 'guru maharaj ji loves me because I can't read or write'. I pleaded with John not to send me to London because I needed to stay near my mother, who was dying of cancer, but was told coldly and flatly that there was nowhere for me in Leeds and that I should 'just surrender and trust' and that 'guru maharaj ji has said that the parents of ashram premies will be protected by His Grace..' I was young, I was confused, I dared not disobey the Lord, I went. When my mother died, I had not seen her for the last 3 months of her life. My family have still not forgiven me. I left the ashram very soon after that, and earned the mantle of 'spaced-out premie'. That, and the animosity of my family, eventually drove me to leave the country and come to the USA where nobody knew me, which for the most part still applies. For the longest time I convinced myself that this was all His 'lila' and that He loved me in special kind of way. No, I don't think the analogy with a notorious dictator is too unreasonable, neither do I accept that his uberlautenents be let off for their part solely on the pretext that they were hoodwinked like the rest of us. Would that have worked for Goering or Goebels? No, there were definately some very savvy premies operating in the upper echelons of the Mission, then as now, who knew exactly what was what and were enjoying the power trip.

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Date: Sun, Jun 11, 2000 at 17:41:37 (GMT) From: Elaine Email: None To: Rob Subject: Great description of John K. (nt) Message:

nt

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Date: Sun, Jun 11, 2000 at 04:55:59 (GMT) From: gerry Email: None To: Rob Subject: Oh Bullshit Rob Message:

Sorry Rob, I'm not buying your sob story. You're too much of a big bullshitter for anyone but the most gullible to believe. Try the Mother Meera BBS. The adress is lying around here somewhere...

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Date: Mon, Jun 12, 2000 at 01:27:46 (GMT) From: Rob Email: None To: gerry Subject: The story wasn't for sale Message:

If I needed sympathy, believe me this is the last place I'd come looking for it. What do you want, copies of my mother's death certificate? Would you accuse me of faking them? Yes, I believe you would. I'm curious though, how do you see maharaji's cause being benefitted by me talking about the scandalous way I and other premies were treated by his henchmen? Do you read a lot of Tom Clancy perhaps? Intrigue, plot and counter-plot. Maybe....maybe I was hoping to elicit a response such as yours, in order to cast a shadow of doubt over everything that is written on the forum? Could that be it? Damn! I should be in politics. I wrote it for my own benefit, period. I'm trying to get things off my chest, see through the fog which had been the past 20 odd years, analyse exactly the process of brainwashing which went on. If you object to that, well, I'm sorry. Send your protestations to the FA's, have the post deleted. The healing for me is in the expressing of it, not in the acceptance by others.

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Date: Mon, Jun 12, 2000 at 02:36:24 (GMT) From: gerry Email: None To: Rob Subject: since you asked... Message:

I'm curious though, how do you see maharaji's cause being benefitted by me talking about the scandalous way I and other premies were treated by his henchmen? I don't see Maharaji's cause being benefited by your story. What I do see is a guy who for whatever freaky reason likes to pull people into his made up dramas for the sole purpose of sucking them dry of emotion, sympathy and mostly, psychic energy. Kinda like a vampire, ya know? I must say, though, you do a good job of sounding sincere. I bet you can look people right in the eye and tell them the same thing.

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Date: Mon, Jun 12, 2000 at 02:50:03 (GMT) From: Rob Email: None To: gerry Subject: Uncle Message:

OK gerry I'm not trying to start a fight here. Like I said, I wanted to get a little anger out of my system. I know there were others sucked into John Knight's round-up, maybe it will strike a chord somewhere and help them. Whatever. I don't want your energy: psychic, emotional, sexual or otherwise. Sorry to have troubled you, OK?

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Date: Mon, Jun 12, 2000 at 02:54:53 (GMT) From: Rob Email: None To: All Subject: Maybe this will lift the mood some Message:

Found this funny animated gif, but first: Disclaimer 'The following link is intended for amusement only. Any resemblance the dancing figure bears to any person living or deceased, is purely fortuitous' Fat Man Dancing

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Date: Mon, Jun 12, 2000 at 02:59:33 (GMT) From: Rob Email: None To: All Subject: Buggered the link up, try this Message:

Try this link http://www.amused.com/fatguydance.html

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Date: Mon, Jun 12, 2000 at 04:44:28 (GMT) From: gerry Email: None To: Rob Subject: Who are you? Where do you live? Message:

What's your email address? Who knows you, that someone here might also know? What is your purpose in being here? What do you think about maharaji? Why did you lead people on with your false story? Why did you gloat about it afterwards? Why didn't you call Jim and talk with him when he offered you the opportunity to 'prove' yourself? Would you call me if I gave you my telephone number? What do you do for a living? What is your educational level? Are you married? Any family? Who are you?

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Date: Tues, Jun 13, 2000 at 01:52:12 (GMT) From: Rob Email: None To: gerry Subject: Holy shit gerry, why don't you just send me a form Message:

....to fill out? Are you interviewing me for a job? Do you ask everyone these questions? What will you do with the information? Do you believe in a person's right to privacy? If I don't answer all these questions will you continue to flame all my posts? See how annoying that is? I'll answer some, not all. What's your email address? Maybe I'll get someone who I'm already swapping emails with to pass mine on to you, if they know you're on the up-and-up. Who knows you, that someone here might also know? I don't know anyone here who claims to use their real names. Can't tell from pseudonyms if I know them or not. You should have gathered from this recent post and others that I'm fairly reclusive, chances are no regulars here know me. What does that prove? Besides, I have a reason for staying anonymous, as do several others here, and it is not what you think. What is your purpose in being here? I find it very helpful to write about some of the things I went through as a premie. I also find strength and support in reading other people's experiences. What do you think about maharaji? I think he is a person who once may have believed he was a 'divine being', but who now knows exactly who he is and is enjoying the fruits of his ill-gotten wealth. I think he is a remorseless, manipulative fraud who continues to ensnare innocent, searching souls into his cash-cow cult. Why did you lead people on with your false story? Why did you gloat about it afterwards? If you are referring to the famous 'agya' spoof, it was at a time when I still considered myself a premie. The clarity and truth behind the posts here were starting to get through to me, so I wanted to do something to divert and distract. In simple terms, I was losing it but couldnt let go. Plus it was kinda funny, I thought. Why didn't you call Jim and talk with him when he offered you the opportunity to 'prove' yourself? I have yet to read a single post of Jim's which shows anything other than a harsh, judgemental, interrogative person behind the writing. Why would I subject myself to that? Is every pseudonymous person here asked to run that particular gauntlet? Then why should I? (Sorry Jim, but there it is) Would you call me if I gave you my telephone number? Maybe. You wouldn't be the first. Depends what your intentions are. What do you do for a living? I'm a writer. What is your educational level? Somewhere between Jed Clampett and Steven Hawkings. (This is getting tedious.) Are you married? Any family? Mind your own business Who are you? I post as Rob. Who are you? Who is cq, Roger eDrek, JHB, raina, blood, Hal, King Rat, Stuart Shyster, Mother Meera, runamok, gErRy, malibu mole, la-ex, angry, ET, ETC. I suppose you are personally acquainted with all of them?

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Date: Tues, Jun 13, 2000 at 17:20:33 (GMT) From: gerry Email: None To: Rob Subject: Holy shit gerry, why don't you just send me a form Message:

Are you interviewing me for a job? Do you ask everyone these questions? What will you do with the information? Do you believe in a person's right to privacy? If I don't answer all these questions will you continue to flame all my posts? No I'm not interviewing you for a job, but you are asking to be taken seriously, aren't you? I don't have to ask everyone these questions because not everyone has engendered such distrust in me as you have, Rob. And of course I believe in the right to privacy. I also believe in my right to know who I'm dealing with and what they are about at least to some degree. I 'know' quite a few people here actually, and exchange email and telephone calls with several. I've met a few Ex's in real life and plan on meeting more soon. Whether or not I flame your posts from here on out is sorta up to you, Rob. Rob didn't you also threaten to hack the forum, saying how weak it was and how easy it would be for you to bring it down. Just an aside but it explains some of my reticence at taking you at face value. What's so damn touchy about asking if you are married or have a family? Isn't that basic information everyone asks and gets to know about their friends or even business associates? My intentions in talking with you on the phone would be to try to get a gauge on your sincerity and also you sound like an interesting person with something to say. I'm Gerry Lyng. I live in McCleary Washington. gErRy is me also. cq and jhb are people whose identities are common knowledge. Others have their reason for anonymity. What's yours?

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Date: Tues, Jun 13, 2000 at 18:50:37 (GMT) From: Rob Email: None To: gerry Subject: Privacy etc Message:

Rob didn't you also threaten to hack the forum, saying how weak it was and how easy it would be for you to bring it down. Just an aside but it explains some of my reticence at taking you at face value. What the hell are you talking about? I made no such threat and would not know how to begin such an activity anyway. I'm a writer, not a computer geek. What's so damn touchy about asking if you are married or have a family? Isn't that basic information everyone asks and gets to know about their friends or even business associates? I wasn't being touchy, I was just getting bored with answering questions. OK, I'm in my second marriage, have 2 kids from my first, none from this and things are NOT hunky dory at home, thanks for asking. My intentions in talking with you on the phone would be to try to get a gauge on your sincerity and also you sound like an interesting person with something to say. Well we've kinda blown that idea out of the water now, haven't we? Maybe next year? I'm Gerry Lyng. I live in McCleary Washington. gErRy is me also. cq and jhb are people whose identities are common knowledge. Others have their reason for anonymity. What's yours? Nice to meet you, I'm sure. I have heard that you are a nice enough person normally, so I guess it's me as usual brings out that worst. cq & jhb may be commonly known, but not by me. I knew a John Berger, but not knowing his middle initial cant tell if that's jhb. I think our next posts in this thread illustrate ONE reason why I prefer my privacy. Another is that I am still on EV mailing list and occasionally hear some juicy insider info from premies, which may come in useful for publication here. Another concerns my marriage, you'll forgive me if I don't go there? Yet another concern is that there is no telling what loony premies are out there reading this forum, who may decide to go on some personal jihad some day. OK I'm paranoid, but you did ask. Is this going to go on much longer, only I really should be working now? ps, for what it's worth, I'm sorry its come to this, but I won't be bullied away by anyone's flames, so it's actually up to you.

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Date: Tues, Jun 13, 2000 at 02:42:18 (GMT) From: Marianne Email: None To: Rob Subject: Holy shit gerry, why don't you just send me a form Message:

Gerry isn't the only one who doubts what you have to say here. Marianne

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Date: Tues, Jun 13, 2000 at 04:35:59 (GMT) From: Rob Email: None To: Marianne Subject: Really? So which part(s) do YOU disbelieve? Message:

The fact that my mother died of liver cancer? The fact that I wasn't able to be with her in her last months? The fact that this totally alienated the rest of my family, who thought I was weird for following this 'guru' anyway? The fact that John Knight coerced and bullied unattached premies into joining the ashram? The fact that I left the ashram after such a short time? The fact that I now live in the US? The fact that I'd like to see maharaji and all his minions suffer a slow, agonizing, cancerous death for ruining my entire fucking life and turning me into a recluse with my very own therapist? Right now I'm finding it hard to be courteous, so I'd better stop. Believe/disbelieve what you will. I could care less.

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Date: Tues, Jun 13, 2000 at 05:22:27 (GMT) From: Marianne Email: None To: Rob Subject: Really? So which part(s) do YOU disbelieve? Message:

Well Rob, you wore out your welcome with me long ago. I am not sure what, if anything, anyone should believe about your posts. If you are trying to resolve the damage that was done to you because you lost time with your family as a result of the cult, it is my suggestion that you do that primarily with a therapist, not here. No one has any reason to believe any post that you make, given your past history, as far as I am concerned. If this makes you angry, take it up with your therapist after disclosing the hoax that you perpetrated upon us. While the hoax may have had its comedic aspects, it also made me abandon my natural sympathies for the situation you have described. See a therapist for what ails you. I am not convinced you are of one mind at this point. Marianne

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Date: Tues, Jun 13, 2000 at 17:12:13 (GMT) From: Rob Email: None To: Marianne Subject: My last word on this Message:

With all due respect, Marianne, I have apologised many times for that whole cycle of events, and I'm trying to move on. Some here seem to resent that and see me as easy prey for venting their own suppressed anger, and basically I'm OK with that, although it does make me more determined to protect my privacy off line - I don't wish to get the same treatment as Mary and other unfortunates who were haranged mercilessly by telephone and email. I've even thought of starting my own message board for victims of THIS forum. FYI I have been seeing a therapist since last year and she knows the whole story. It was actually her suggestion that I try to express some of my involvment in the cult. I have seen it mentioned many times that the Forum IS a place for people to work out their anger/confusion/hurt from cult days. The simplest thing I can suggest is that you and others who take umbrage at this simply ignore me and don't click on my posts after this. I rarely post anyway now, one can only take so much flaming. Enjoy your day.

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Date: Wed, Jun 14, 2000 at 02:41:31 (GMT) From: Katie Email: None To: Rob Subject: Hey Rob... Message:

Rob, you wrote... I don't wish to get the same treatment as Mary and other unfortunates who were haranged mercilessly by telephone and email. I've even thought of starting my own message board for victims of THIS forum. I have no idea who 'haranged' Mary et al. 'mercilessly', but it wasn't me. I was very upset when I found out that Mary had not been telling me the truth and/or that she'd been telling other people DIFFERENT things than she told me. I don't see Mary as a 'victim' of this forum, honestly. I do not dislike her, but my encounter with her and the other people involved in the 'Mary' episode was basically a rude awakening to the fact that some of the people who post here have either been so damaged by the cult, or, because of the cult, have NOT sought help for previous damage, that they can disrupt the forum and the informal ex-premie community - and are beyond the point where they can be helped by this forum and the people involved (I am not singling out Mary specifically here!). These people need professional help. (I have sought plenty of professional help myself, so I am not saying this in a negative or superior way!) Rob, I think you will find that people on this forum - especially people who were in the cult for a long time - have a extremely negative visceral reaction to being lied to and made a fool of. I know you have apologized for the 'agya' hoax - personally, I thought that was pretty funny, and I am not holding any grudges about it. But I think that some people might still be upset about the 'thinking of suicide' posts that you made on 'Anything Goes'. I don't know whether ex-premies actually have more friends and relatives that have committed suicide than the average person, or if they are just more open about it - but, anyway, people here are particularly sensitive to threats of suicide. If the suicide posts were sincere, then please clarify this. I do know - from experience - that people who are just leaving the M cult can very often feel suicidal. In fact, some of them DO commit suicide, so it is very scary when someone writes suicidal sounding posts. BTW, I believe that your post about your experiences as a premie in the UK was real (hey, maybe I'm gullible, but I know that, and I don't mind people making fun of me for it.) And yes, I think it's a good idea to write about our experiences. I wrote some parts of the 'Red Nighty' based on my own experiences as a teenage premie, my experiences with premie men, and on things that a friend (former ashram housemother) had told me, and I found it quite therapeutic - not to mention enjoyable. You can always do it on the writing forum. Take care - Katie

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Date: Tues, Jun 13, 2000 at 17:28:03 (GMT) From: gerry Email: None To: Rob Subject: You really are just a shit-stirrer, aren't you, Ro Message:

I don't wish to get the same treatment as Mary and other unfortunates who were haranged mercilessly by telephone and email Your mention of Mary as if she were some sort of a victim rather than THE PERPETRATOR and emotional plague creature she is proves my point in spades. And yeah, I will continue to flame your ass until you disappear.

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Date: Tues, Jun 13, 2000 at 18:24:17 (GMT) From: Rob Email: None To: gerry Subject: And you are expressing cult-like tendancies Message:

I will continue to flame your ass until you disappear I will continue to flame your ass until you disappear Obviously an advocate of Free Speech and Privacy gerry? I think not. I can't believe you said that: I will continue to flame your ass until you disappear Mary was a victim, both of the cult and of people like you and those who telephoned her repeatedly - they know who they are. Yes she may have brought it on herself, but whatever happened to the general understanding here that a lot of people have been screwed up by their involvement with the cult? What about basic human compassion for people with mental problems? Are you normally abusive of these unfortunates? What does that say about you, gerry? Is this why you want me to telephone you, so you can verbally abuse me? I was almost coming around to the point where I would open up more and start getting in touch with other exes here, but after this, no freakin' way jose. Flame away, gerry, it speaks volumes about you.

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Date: Wed, Jun 14, 2000 at 01:42:56 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: Rob Subject: That's a lie, Robbie baby Message:

Mary was a victim, both of the cult and of people like you and those who telephoned her repeatedly - they know who they are. Is that what she told you? Too funny. And you accepted it at face value? Funnier still.

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Date: Wed, Jun 14, 2000 at 02:02:29 (GMT) From: Rob Email: None To: Jim Subject: Maybe yes, maybe no, Jimmie old son, Message:

I'm not in possession of all the facts obviously, the information was passed on by a mutual friend, I didn't speak with her directly. The point was not to reinvent the 'Mary affair' but to attempt to illustrate to numbnuts here why I value my privacy. Am I wrong then, when I say certain acquaintances of yours gave her hell on the telephone?

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Date: Wed, Jun 14, 2000 at 02:12:58 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: Rob Subject: Maybe yes, maybe no, Jimmie old son, Message:

Boy this is like Hallowe'en all over again. First Joey, then you, then Drek taking potshots at you, and now Mary? Really, Rob, do we have to? Huh? Do we? All I can tell you is that, to the best of my knowledge, Mary deserved about as much a tune-up as you did. Both of you intentionally fucked with people here. As for you, I've already said I don't think it's that big a deal. Mary, on the other hand, was not in the cult then and has no excuses. Does that make sense? I'm not sure myself. Let me think about it.

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Date: Tues, Jun 13, 2000 at 19:07:37 (GMT) From: gerry Email: None To: Rob Subject: Cute Rob, you fucking manipulator. Message:

I was almost coming around to the point where I would open up more and start getting in touch with other exes here, but after this, no freakin' way jose. Then you're a pretty lame dick weak individual aren't you Rob? Another one of your manipulative ploys Rob, eh? Just when I was coming around to thinking you might be a real person. I have lots of sympathy for people with mental problems. But none for sociopaths like you, Mary and Maharaji.

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Date: Tues, Jun 13, 2000 at 22:13:02 (GMT) From: Rob Email: None To: gerry Subject: Make that pitbull tendancies Message:

Can't let it go can you? So now I'm a 'sociopath' because I won't tell you my name? We don't know each other, I can guarantee that, so my name would mean nothing to you anyway, but it's not like I could tell you anything in confidence, is it? Can't you get it through your thick skull that I simply want to retain my privacy on the internet, as do so many others here? What part of that don't you understand? Go back to the beginning of the thread here. I wrote a short anecdote describing a situation which occured 21 years ago, which may have been interesting to some readers, and because I happened to put it in context of my own experience concerning the death of my mother, you come after me like a rabid pitbull and stream insults, accusations, slander - in a word 'flame' of the worst kind - and now I'm a sociopath?!! Are you mad? Are you having a bad day? Again I ask you - what possible ulterior motive could be achieved by my writing what I did? Your first attack suggested I was looking for sympathy. Gerry, I might be a lot if things but stupid isn't one of them. Have you any idea how many flame attacks I've had to contend with in the past 12 months? Go on, take a guess. Could it have been made any clearer to me that I have as much chance of receiving sympathy here as would a bunny in a rotweiler farm? Well then WHAT? The world is watching, gerry, make it a good one.

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Date: Wed, Jun 14, 2000 at 02:05:49 (GMT) From: gerry Email: None To: Rob Subject: OK, maybe sociopath is tad strong... Message:

And I take it back. And I apologize and I won't say it again. But I think it fits M&M. Can't let it go can you? You've said something like this a couple of times before. I didn't understand it then and I don't understand it now. Let what go? Isn't this a discussion? And yes, I can understand privacy on the net. Does that give you license to deliberately deceive people like you do, or did? I'm supposed to take everything you say as gospel now? You have no credibility, 'Rob,' that's the main problem. What's to stop you from making these 'anecdotes' up out of whole cloth like you did before. What then, sneering laughter and ha ha gotcha again? You wonder why I flamed you and called you a sociopath? Anyone who makes up a story like your 'anecdote' certainly has sociopathic tendencies in my book. Trust me, I lived with one (certified) for eighteen years. Of course there are degrees of everything. Are you mad? Are you having a bad day? Crazy mad or angry mad? And god, I had an incredible day after getting off the computer and going into the city. It started in the car. By the time I hit the streets I was blissed out, just like the old days. Had a series of wonderful interactions with strangers, gave away some dough, chatted up some store clerks, installed a handset on a door for a friend whose husband had recently left town (for free of course) and I'm still buzzing. How was your day? As to your ulterior motives: malicious manipulation i would guess, like the last time. You say you are not looking for sympathy. So why did you post that 'anecdote' in the first place. For entertainment purposes? In case you don't know it, your 'anecdote' was actually a bummer and would elict sympathy in spades, even from my pitbull self, if anyone thought you were sincere. Once bitten, twice shy, Rob. And you took a big chunk out, buddy. Look Rob if it's sympathy you want and counseling you need try a professional. You've exhausted your emotional bank account here, hate ta tell ya.

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Date: Tues, Jun 13, 2000 at 15:45:36 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: Marianne Subject: Coem on, Marianne, that's a bit harsh Message:

Look, all the guy did was work us up a bit and get Gail to take a day or two off work. Reckless behaviour? Not so bad if one assumes that he really had some allegiance to the cult we attack so vehemently then. Does he now? Who knows? But does it matter? When Rob starts collecting funds for his first ex-eco nostalgia junket to Houston I might think twice about giving him my card number but until then, whatever, eh? And Rob, fuck you too.

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Date: Mon, Jun 12, 2000 at 16:41:42 (GMT) From: cq Email: None To: gerry Subject: Gerry, I have an inkling that this might be a Message:

Gerry, I have an inkling that this might be a different Rob to the one who apparently caused such mayhem a few months back. He mentions this guy Frank, who I remember well enough from my days in the printing ashram - though I didn't know he went on to be a housefather. And, though I haven't read many of 'Rob's' previous posts, I think this one sounded pretty genuine. But what would I know? - I was dumb enough to fall for Mr Rawat (but not so dumb as to stay stuck with him).

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Date: Mon, Jun 12, 2000 at 17:19:32 (GMT) From: gerry Email: None To: cq Subject: Hey Rob are you the same Rob? Message:

Chris, You think this is a different Rob? Never thought about that. I don't think it is though. Maybe you actually know this person, though his real name may not be Rob.

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Date: Mon, Jun 12, 2000 at 17:47:48 (GMT) From: cq Email: None To: gerry Subject: Not his real name? You mean .. Message:

... he might be Tarquin Fin Tim Lim Bim Lim Bim Bim Bus Stop Ftang Ftang Ole Biscuit Barrel?

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Date: Mon, Jun 12, 2000 at 17:58:23 (GMT) From: gerry Email: None To: cq Subject: yes, precisely... nt Message:

I think it's 'biscuit barrel'

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Date: Mon, Jun 12, 2000 at 00:50:05 (GMT) From: (Sir) David Email: None To: gerry Subject: Oh Bullshit Rob Message:

You cynic, gerry. Rob finally tells his story and you walk all over it with the big heavy boots of doubt. It's a good story and much better than the London bus driver one.

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Date: Tues, Jun 13, 2000 at 02:18:59 (GMT) From: Rob Email: None To: (Sir) David Subject: Thank you Dave Message:

Only the 'London bus driver' one wasn't one of my creations, it was Jeff's in the persona of either Blackdog or Cerberus. But then you knew that.

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Date: Mon, Jun 12, 2000 at 01:18:58 (GMT) From: selene Email: None To: (Sir) David Subject: well at least you give!! Message:

Don't do well with guys with games with balls. OOPS Well let this for a better time. but something , the eternel rebel in me noticed this off topic and finally tells a story\ (hey)stomp on it big heavy boots of doubt.

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Date: Mon, Jun 12, 2000 at 01:33:25 (GMT) From: Rob Email: None To: selene Subject: well at least you give!! Message:

Any chance you could translate that?:)

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Date: Mon, Jun 12, 2000 at 15:25:01 (GMT) From: Selene Email: None To: Rob Subject: translation attempt Message:

Hi Rob Translation=big fight with husband this weekend :) and massive computer problems at home AND work. yuck. all better now except for other cryptic post I do not claim credit(?) for!!

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Date: Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 21:36:14 (GMT) From: Joey Email: None To: ET Subject: Here's your reincarnationn of Hitler...Roger Drek Message:

This definitely takes the cake when it comes to the anti-semitic bullshit that we've seen on the Forum. While raina would want us to believe that this garbage is the work of an ex-premie, I doubt it very much. What we're dealing with is some premie poser who's intention, besides getting a razz out of me, is to cast former members of m's cult in this very negative light. In the past we've witnessed the anti-semitic expressions and ramblings of the one who calls himsef Roger Drek, amongst god only knows how many other aliases. My bet is he's at it again.

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Date: Sun, Jun 11, 2000 at 00:05:30 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: Joey Subject: Hey, come on! Why stop there? Message:

Joey, why in the world do you let raina off so easily? Just when I think you've flushed out a rat you seem to let him go all over again. Honestly, why do you think raina (or should I say 'raina') even mentioned this post if not to suggest that she herself didn't write it? No, that part's pretty obvious to me. She drew attention to it. What was her real reason?

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Date: Sun, Jun 11, 2000 at 01:17:19 (GMT) From: Joey Email: None To: Jim Subject: Ok, I'll continue... Message:

Jim, really, who gives a fuck!?! Roger, raina, Rob, the whole lot of them...these guys work in teams.

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Date: Sun, Jun 11, 2000 at 01:27:41 (GMT) From: Rob Email: None To: Joey Subject: We need to talk Message:

Off forum. I'll set something up if you're into it. Rob

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Date: Sun, Jun 11, 2000 at 19:27:18 (GMT) From: King Rat Email: None To: Rob Subject: Attention: R-Cubed Cell - meeting tonight Message:

Attention raina, Rob, and my beloved Roger eDrek: Due this dire situation where your covers are about to be blown all three of you need to meet tonight with your handler, Raja Rat Ji. The meeting will be at the usual location at the usual time. Large disbursements from the 'Roto-Rooter' slush fund will be doled out to accommodate any inconveniences that you might suffer while doing the Lord's work.

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Date: Mon, Jun 12, 2000 at 06:30:34 (GMT) From: selene Email: None To: King Rat Subject: nO fUC-inn Waaa Message:

sorry King just thot Id log on and red this and had ta protist no no 00no no \\\\\\\\ you don't get it yet? your cybsmmm aint workin dud

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Date: Mon, Jun 12, 2000 at 07:54:57 (GMT) From: Selene Email: None To: What???? Subject: I don't do Jim, ie call on FAs but... what?? Message:

what?? this is getting a bit strange.

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Date: Tues, Jun 13, 2000 at 09:37:26 (GMT) From: Forum admin Email: None To: Selene Subject: Selene... Message:

If either of the above posts was not one of yours, they can be deleted. Just say.

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Date: Tues, Jun 13, 2000 at 17:32:39 (GMT) From: Selene Email: None To: Forum admin Subject: thanks Message:

I have had some crappy stuff happen this weekend, computing wise and got upset over this as yet another piece of bs. Delete the 'poem' if you want, it doesn't matter to me at this point but I appreciate your reply.

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Date: Wed, Jun 14, 2000 at 02:23:25 (GMT) From: Katie Email: None To: Selene Subject: Hey, I care! Message:

Hi Selene - I am assuming that whoever posted that nO fUC-inn Waaa post wasn't you - and I think this person should stay OFF the forum (whether forcibly or voluntarily, doesn't matter to me). You have a right to complain if someone else is posting under your name! I would...but you already knew that, right? :) Love to you - Katie

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Date: Sun, Jun 11, 2000 at 05:12:28 (GMT) From: Joey Email: None To: Rob Subject: YOU may have a need to talk Rob... Message:

....but I certainly don't have the need to talk to an inveterate, pathological liar like yourself!

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Date: Mon, Jun 12, 2000 at 01:12:48 (GMT) From: Rob Email: None To: Joey Subject: Please yourself. Message:

Just thought I'd offer. No hard feelings I hope. Guess you-know-who wins another round, but again, I would appreciate not being used in that fashion by the pair of you. Take it out into the schoolyard, for god's sake.

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Date: Mon, Jun 12, 2000 at 03:57:45 (GMT) From: Joey Email: None To: Rob Subject: Rob, it HAS BEEN a pleasure. Message:

Interesting, Rob. Is that what you think this is all about... 'winning rounds'?? What about your sincere motivation, as you put it to gerry. I wrote it for my own benefit, period. I'm trying to get things off my chest, see through the fog which had been the past 20 odd years, analyse exactly the process of brainwashing which went on. If you object to that, well, I'm sorry. Send your protestations to the FA's, have the post deleted. The healing for me is in the expressing of it, not in the acceptance by others. What is this Rob...speaking out of both sides of your mouth again? I got news for you. You not only need acceptance, you need MASS acceptance for what you're up to. That's why you're so into 'winning the round ' and letting everyone know you won. But you haven't won anything with your stupid little headfuck games. Just so you know.

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Date: Tues, Jun 13, 2000 at 02:00:55 (GMT) From: Rob Email: None To: Joey Subject: Maybe Jim is right about you Message:

It's entirely possible that you DO need some help. Unless, that is, you're happy with the way you are. If there's one thing I have learned, it's that you can't argue with an insane person, you can only walk away. Bye.

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Date: Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 17:58:06 (GMT) From: Hal Email: None To: ET Subject: Maharaji isn't a reincarnation of Hitler Message:

I've been told by my reincarnation consultant that he was Joe Stalin. Yeah, come to think of it with this repression issue that seems feasable!

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Date: Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 18:15:28 (GMT) From: cq Email: None To: Hal Subject: ... he was Harry Houdini (which could be useful)nt Message:

... he was Harry Houdini (which could be useful)nt

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Date: Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 18:13:42 (GMT) From: Mother Meera Email: None To: Hal Subject: He's Father Divine come again! (nt) Message:

I said no text, God damn it!

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Date: Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 18:17:18 (GMT) From: Hal Email: None To: Mother Meera Subject: More like Humpty Dumpty !!! nt Message:

that's it

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Date: Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 13:53:27 (GMT) From: raina Email: None To: Jim Subject: Here's what u need Jim! An army of ET's. Message:

With your sincere passion, and ET's prolific, (and original) insightfulness Maharaji will be crying harder than ever. If you use the name 'Hitler' often enough, you'll surely boost your level of visibility. (Sadly, also the reason people will always feel unsafe about giving too much personal info online......) I wish you fewer Me's and TONS more ET's.

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Date: Tues, Jun 13, 2000 at 06:14:43 (GMT) From: U dumb? Email: None To: raina Subject: Here's what u need Jim! An army of ET's. Message:

Nt

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Date: Sun, Jun 11, 2000 at 00:09:59 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: raina Subject: shut up, raina (nt) Message:

gggg

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Date: Sun, Jun 11, 2000 at 05:39:17 (GMT) From: StuartShyster Email: None To: Jim Subject: shut up, jim (nt) Message:

gggg

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Date: Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 08:40:47 (GMT) From: Paging Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Spencer Dickenson Message:

We are looking for Spencer Dickenson formerly of North Carolina.

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Date: Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 22:00:17 (GMT) From: bb Email: None To: Paging Subject: Spencer Dickenson Message:

I knew Spencer from DECA and he seemed to have been much recovered a few years later after bailing out of such active enslavement. I would not put you in touch with him unless you were Brian or JM

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Date: Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 23:04:49 (GMT) From: Front Desk Email: None To: bb Subject: Spencer Dickenson Message:

Thats understandable. I havent seen him here and want to reconnect. Does Brian or JM now him or did you mean to protect his privacy?

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Date: Sun, Jun 11, 2000 at 06:19:13 (GMT) From: Bill...7952 Email: None To: Front Desk Subject: ***********Tales from Phaffendorf Estates********* Message:

Call Visions publications He may be on their mailing list. I am on it fer christs sake! I used to live across the street from DECA. Marisa was working on something for the front of the LORDS HOLI stage in the courtyard of DECA. I was working on the stage with a crew of carpenters that had left a major project that had somehow been won as a contract by the construction firm that was an in-house sideline of the main DECA Aircraft. the construction company was called C.R.A. Construction Resources of America. SO, a crew of guys that normally would have spent the day working in a very expensive mall that Marolyn and Claudia and Raja Ji and Maharaji would shop in were instead in the courtyard making the HOLI stage usable for our lord for the HOLI season. **Which for DECA folks lasted for months! Sure enough, the Lord arrives and drives through the courtyard and goes into his very large garage that has a very large staff working on his many cars and the motorhome and the helicopter. He looks out the window and says 'Those are the only premies doing service here.' Seamstresses were included in that presumably. It seems we are about done when he comes driveing out the garage and pulls up right in front of me. He heads out of the car as I scoot over to the stairs and apply pressure on the top rung because I know that the stairs were only placed on top of a supportingboard and so I give it a nail replacing pressure bond. As he walks up the stairs He says ' will hold right?' At the time I thoughtthe way he said it contained the sound that indicated he has sure it would. HOLI happened and as he left he said as he left the stage to his attendent 'WHat did you think of that?' I loved all the HOLIS there although stories like this next one would come drifting down the vine......a girl gave some flowers to him as he walked through the crowd back to the garage. When he got back to the garage he turned to Jim Hession who was in charge of DECA and he said sternly and loudly 'If you do anything for me keep those premies away from me.' She was banned from DECA. This I know. Probably one of the reasons Jim had to finally accept that the one claiming to be the ultimate ruler on stage and the one that was living like the royal lord of all in his private life was for some reason crippled with demons that he couldnt shake. Why would he be plagued like that if it really was some unconsious oneness? My life personally is so dear to me that I fear death completely. I just have to clear the decks in my heart and adopt a **Get the most out of everthing you have** approach and shift over to an I love life fundamental core. I have so much that is a dream come true that in this special moment I just have to have no corners where I am not settled. I am spooked by central bank level financial inbalances. If maharaji the perfect master can make a dent in some of the religions with a breath based fantasy,I cant defend god based religions against this eastern kind of thinking. Humans are so prone to making up and beliving bizarre stories about reality. I choose to love life in all directions and try to concentrate on family life. The opposite of the SATGURU who choose instead to follow the HOLY FAMILY tradition of ignoring and dismissing family as, well, stupid. He keeps it up with this fathers day program where he drags people away from thier families on fathers day. Away from where they should be. He who plays god is cursed! I just want to love life and hope I have lots of time to have success in the only one area that I choose to be my dream. Doing what the guy who is the head of Promise Keepers said, He said, 'GUYS, the duty of the husband is to help his wife and kids dreams come true.' I choose that.

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Date: Sun, Jun 11, 2000 at 06:26:41 (GMT) From: bill...2040 Email: None To: Bill...7952 Subject: Spence Message:

Oh yeah this was about Spencer, He was in charge of the DECA facility. He was around that day. I knew him and saw him later in North Carolina and he had a food store and a family.

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Date: Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 16:55:31 (GMT) From: jesse helms Email: None To: Paging Subject: Spencer Dickenson Message:

Spence Dickinson lives in Chapel Hill,NC, where he runs a horse training farm for kids, called Spence's Farm. He got married 2 weeks ago on the farm, and seems to be happy with his new situation.

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Date: Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 21:16:42 (GMT) From: To: Jesse Helms Email: None To: jesse helms Subject: Spencer Dickenson Message:

Do you know if Spencer is still exish? I dont want to shock him is his new mode.

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Date: Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 20:11:05 (GMT) From: Front desk Email: None To: jesse helms Subject: Spencer Dickenson Message:

Thank you. Do you know if he is he still exish?

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Date: Sun, Jun 11, 2000 at 03:00:42 (GMT) From: Jesse Helms Email: None To: Front desk Subject: Spencer Dickenson Message:

Yes, Spence is definitely an ex.He's probably pretty approachable as far as talking about anything, including m and his past involvement with deca.His ex wife is also an ex-premie.He seems to have a spiritual growth philosophy that he is happy with and seems to be doing pretty well with his new marriage.

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Date: Sun, Jun 11, 2000 at 04:58:36 (GMT) From: gerry Email: None To: Jesse Helms Subject: Spencer Dickenson-good let's leave him alone Message:

Whoever the hell he is, the guy deserves his privacy. After all it's not like he's here asking for support or anything.

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Date: Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 09:11:13 (GMT) From: WE Email: None To: Paging Subject: paging Spencer Dickenson Message:

Spencer...you here?

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Date: Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 10:54:01 (GMT) From: Front Desk Email: None To: Spencer Subject: paging Spencer Dickenson Message:

please report to your keyboard immediately.

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Date: Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 05:32:10 (GMT) From: FelisNavidad Email: None To: Everyone Subject: LAKERS WIN Message:

game 2...

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Date: Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 06:10:59 (GMT) From: BigBrotha Email: None To: FelisNavidad Subject: EX'S LOSE Message:

only a joke...jk...don't get yo'self all riled up

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Date: Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 23:25:15 (GMT) From: MoFoRapguy Email: None To: BigBrotha Subject: EX-PACERS LOSE Message:

is ball busting an unofficial sin an ex-byeguy now emblamatic? mais oui, oh non...In sooth I know not why I am so sad.

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Date: Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 00:41:27 (GMT) From: Estrogen Email: None To: Everyone Subject: OT Message:

WOMEN Women have strengths that amaze men. They carry children, they carry hardships, they carry burdens, but they hold happiness, love and joy. They smile when they want to scream. They sing when they want to cry. They cry when they are happy and laugh when they are nervous. Women wait by the phone for a 'safe at home call' from a friend after a snowy drive home. They are child care workers, executives, attorneys, stay-at-home moms, biker babes, and your neighbors. They wear suits, jeans, and they wear uniforms. They fight for what they believe in. They stand up for injustice. They walk and talk the extra mile to get their children in the right schools and for getting their family the right health care. They go to the doctor with a frightened friend. Women are honest, loyal, and forgiving. They are smart, knowing that knowledge is power. But they still know how to use their softer side to make a point. Women want to be the best for their family, their friends, and themselves. Their hearts break when a friend dies. They have sorrow at the loss of a family member, yet they are strong when others think there is no strength left. A woman can make a romantic evening unforgettable. Women come in all sizes, in all colors and shapes. They live in houses, apartments, castles and cabins. They drive, fly, walk, run or e-mail you to show how much they care about you. The heart of a woman is what makes the world spin. Women do more than just give birth. They bring joy and hope. They give compassion and ideals. They give moral support to their family and friends. And all they want back is a hug, a smile and for you to do the same to people you come in contact with. MEN Men are good at lifting heavy stuff....

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Date: Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 05:54:21 (GMT) From: Testosterone Email: None To: Estrogen Subject: OT Message:

Why do women have periods? Because they deserve them.

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Date: Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 19:32:27 (GMT) From: The real Testosterone Email: None To: Testosterone Subject: OT Message:

Yo, Dickwad. I don't mind so much if you use my moniker to make a point, but when you're crude to my sister, Estrogen, like you just was, well, it just gets my, uh, testosterone, all in a tizzy. So, why don't we step outside and I'll show you what testosterone is really good for, you dumb fucking shithead. Why the fuck would you say something like women get peiods because they deserve them? Where are you at? Asshole.

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Date: Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 16:09:00 (GMT) From: Ms Angry Email: None To: Testosterone Subject: JUST BECAUSE!!! - dickhead. You OK with that????? Message:

Periods? JUST BECAUSE!!! - dickhead. You OK with that?????

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Date: Sun, Jun 11, 2000 at 03:50:36 (GMT) From: Testosterone Email: None To: Ms Angry Subject: Don't worry, be happy Clitface Message:

Hey chuckles, you having a bad day? It was joke. Meditation may help.

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Date: Sun, Jun 11, 2000 at 21:31:03 (GMT) From: The real Testosterone Email: None To: Testosterone Subject: Fuck you, jerkoff Message:

It was a lousy joke, asshole. Go fuck yourself.

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Date: Mon, Jun 12, 2000 at 00:04:35 (GMT) From: Testosterone Email: None To: The real Testosterone Subject: Fuck you, jerkoff Message:

You sound more like an Estrogen in PMS. You are not meditating enough either sister. I can tell you know.

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Date: Mon, Jun 12, 2000 at 00:24:08 (GMT) From: gerry Email: None To: Testosterone Subject: Hey Testy, yer not funny. Piss off why don't you Message:

sorry no text and no room in the subject box to say so.

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Date: Mon, Jun 12, 2000 at 06:09:18 (GMT) From: Harry Email: None To: gerry Subject: Hehehehehehehe........... Message:

No text

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Date: Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 04:15:05 (GMT) From: Helen Email: None To: Estrogen Subject: Hugs and smiles don't do it--give me power,baby Message:

Seriously, this is well-intentioned but I don't buy this idea that all women want is a hug and smile.

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Date: Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 04:52:25 (GMT) From: Stonor Email: None To: Helen Subject: Well intentioned? Message:

Hi Helen, Sorry to disagree, but IMO, this may be well intentioned in that it is trying to make people laugh, or appreciate the strengths and contributions of women, but even if this type of joke can get a laugh out of me sometimes, I don't think that's a good enough excuse for perpetuating sexism. I am aware that women have been suffering from patriarchal control, and at times, persecution for thousands of years, but this is a systemic problem, maintained by women, as well as men. This joke dehumanizes men and is hurtful, and that's not funny to me. To dehumanize any human is to dehumanize one's self. Stonor

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Date: Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 13:51:39 (GMT) From: Helen Email: None To: Stonor Subject: Well intentioned? Message:

I agree that that post also dehumanizes men, who are every bit as emotional, nurturing and romantic as women. I have mixed feelings about these messages which come across my email, elevating women to heights of sainthood, and making men out to be big dumb clueless lugs. I think male bashing has become quite prevalent in the media etc. WHy is it that when singing the praises of women, men have to be denigrated? For example the T-shirt 'PMS: Putting UP with Men's Shit' What do men have to do with our own biology? But well-intentioned? I truly don't beleive the person who posted that intended to insult or dehumanize anyone.

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Date: Sun, Jun 11, 2000 at 01:57:20 (GMT) From: Stonor Email: None To: Helen Subject: Well intentioned? Message:

Hi Helen, Sorry I wasn't more clear - I wasn't thinking of Estrogen, but the writer of the joke. And I see that we are saying the same things. But you hit on the downside that I didn't, probably because I could only bring myself to skim the text. Thanks for drawing my attention to it. Maybe a reflection of how many women often reinforce these polarized roles themselves. Stonor

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Date: Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 15:25:54 (GMT) From: Katie Email: None To: Helen and Stonor Subject: Well intentioned? Message:

Hi Helen and Stonor - (Stonor, are you back on line? Hope so.) I got that message as an e-mail from someone who was definitely well-intentioned, but I didn't really like it either. I thought it was stereotyping too. Although I agree that men and women are different, I am more like some men I know than some women I know. (Plus a lot of my close friends are men.) In re lifting heavy things - I was just talking to some of the guys at work about a couple of women we had worked with who were stronger than any of them! Take care, both of you - Love, Katie P.S. Helen, my shoulder is better, but I am now typing with a wrist rest which has slowed down my typing speed considerably...guess I'll get used to it. Also, I am not supposed to use the computer too much. Also trying to get used to using the mouse with my left hand!

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Date: Sun, Jun 11, 2000 at 11:45:04 (GMT) From: Harry Email: None To: Katie Subject: Opposite sides of the same coin. Message:

Hi Katie, the gist is that she's caring, compassionate, loves a cuddle and to be appreciated and loved. Sounds like me and a lot of my male friends too. Us guys are caring and compassionate too, but in different ways.

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Date: Sun, Jun 11, 2000 at 16:15:14 (GMT) From: Katie Email: None To: Harry Subject: Opposite sides of the same coin. Message:

Hi Harry - I think you could take the post and change 'women' and 'men' to 'human beings'. It wouldn't necessarily apply to everyone, but it doesn't apply to all women now, either. Also, wanting just a hug and a smile? I think most of us want and need more than that - for one thing, respect! Take care - Katie

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Date: Sun, Jun 11, 2000 at 03:42:06 (GMT) From: Stonor Email: None To: Katie Subject: Hi Katie! (ot) Message:

Hi Katie, Yes, I'm back on line and thrilled with my new G4. I was able to make myself supper in the time it took to load the forum on my old computer - no joke. And that crashing was not the only problem I was having with the (only 3 yrs!) old one. Got a scanner too - I'll have to practice by sending you some pictures of my garden this summer! I also got an Ergopad gel wrist-rest mouse pad which was well worth the money. It sounds like you have a much more extensive problem, which I'm very sorry to hear about. I know I don't know what it's all about, but is there a good acupressurist in your area? I see an old man from Hong Kong who is amazing. Maybe someone like him could help. The whole question of male/female 'roles' is a very interesting one to me on a number of levels - it really is tiresome to me in many ways. Although of course we ARE different, I don't think that's the root of the problem - I think it is our culture in general. I'd write more but I'm exhausted. It didn't rain today - so I made the most of it because now it's raining again as predicted. My furnace is still coming on, but I turned it off today finally because it's beyond ridiculous. My dad told me that it's abnormally hot down around Virginia or something. Is that affecting you? And Chris said that it's 'flaming' in London this June, and I don't think he's talking about a 'queen' convention. What's going on? I'll e-mail you soon and I hope your shoulder/wrist problem subsides soon too. Take care, Stonor

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Date: Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 23:31:46 (GMT) From: Helen Email: None To: Katie Subject: Hi Katie (ot) Message:

Yikes, Katie, did you ever figure out what happened? Did you pull a muscle? Are you able to work? Glad to hear an update. The mouse with yer left hand--jeez!!! Sitting at a computer is really hard work with sore muscles. I hope you heal up SOON. Some of these images of women being super endurant and super strong (in that post above) pushes my buttons a bit because it reinforces this idea that women can and should do it all--and I'll tell ya what, I have realized I can't and I shouldn't do it all and that I was nuts to think I could. Katie, Colleen got this incredible kids' art CD-rom called Kids Pix. Anyone reading this who wants a great computer activity for kids--this is spellbinding!! Colleen: 'Mom-mee, let me have a turn!!' I made about 5 cards with it today. It is so much FUN!!!

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Date: Sun, Jun 11, 2000 at 01:30:09 (GMT) From: Helen Email: None To: katie Subject: Hi Katie (ot) Message:

Jeez I just read this post again and my rant about super endurant images of women was regarding the first post in this thread, not your post about what some men you know have said about some women being stronger then they are (physically) which I really agree with!. Oh the limitations of the internet! My rant is really about the supermom image which I found out through bitter experience is a big crock of sh*t. (trying not to cuss so much, therefore the asterisks)

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Date: Sun, Jun 11, 2000 at 16:12:33 (GMT) From: Katie Email: None To: Helen and Stonor Subject: Hi Stonor and Helen (ot) Message:

Hi Stonor and Helen - Glad you're back on-line, Stonor, and that you got a new computer (I just found out what a G-4 was - besides being a corporate jet). Yes, it is hot here, but after spending 6 summers in the midwest, it's all relative. Plus we live in the mountains, so it cools down considerably at night. I can't imagine what it is like in DC - yuck! (Helen, care to comment?). Well, I figured out what I did to my shoulder because I did it again. It is from lifting and carrying buckets of water to my garden (!), and gets aggravated by typing and mousing, stick-shift driving, and earth-moving at work. I think I can solve the problem by getting a hose... Anyway, not a serious injury - just painful and annoying. Sheesh! Helen, I agree re supermom stereotypes. They drive me crazy too, and I'm not even a mom. Honestly, I don't think people were meant to try and 'do it all', unless they have a lot of help from their spouse or someone else. But actually what I didn't like in that post was the last line - how all women need is a hug and a smile etc. Maybe I'm weird, but I need a lot more than that! Take care, both of you - Love, Katie

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Date: Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 02:17:03 (GMT) From: (Sir) David Email: None To: Estrogen Subject: OT Message:

That's a bit too idealistic, even for me. No, men and women are different and you can't compare the two or set up a competition between them. And men are good at putting up with women.

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Date: Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 00:25:51 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Ivette's getting funny again (from ELK) Message:

Ivete Belfort Mattos: I still do my homework From Sao Paolo, Brazil I could make a list of some of the mistakes I have made when helping out as a volunteer. I can easily do it indeed because I will never forget any of them, although none of them had much significance nor any serious consequences. However inside me they were a disaster. I could not accept that after studying and planning, mistakes still happened. So despite of all my obsession aiming for true excellence, they are still alive in my mind. . On the other hand, I am considered a good professional when I am at work. And in this arena, some 'clever' people choose to give up. Several times, I have considered stopping to help out. But then I listen to my heart that says: 'Why should I give up of something that really is important in my life? Why am I going to reconsider something when I enjoy it and it makes me happy? So, I do not quit, I continue to be a part of this incredible time. I still do my homework. I always can learn more and aspire to the appropriate standard. The reward is my happiness and my fulfillment.

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Date: Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 20:15:15 (GMT) From: Hal Email: None To: Jim Subject: Poor wee lassie, Message:

It sounds like such a sad, dry futile type of experience. All that trying to show gratitude for something that really doesn't live up to the claims made for it. Remember those old Westerns with the quack doctor cum salesman on the back of a wagon trying to sell a miracle remedy? Premies are sad creatures really aren't they? Oh well they must have some perverse enjoyment in never being good enough or something, I guess, who knows..... Thanks for looking up these inspiring gems Jim

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Date: Fri, Jun 09, 2000 at 21:49:23 (GMT) From: Gilead Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Did Prempal ever make things right with his mum? Message:

Does anyone know if Mr. M. ever made things right with his mum before she died? She was angry with her son when he started eating meat, marrying an american, and running the gig on his own, leaving her and her boy Satpal out of the darshans?

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Date: Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 07:30:21 (GMT) From: Loaf Email: None To: Gilead Subject: No. He called her his ex-mother (nt) Message:

No .

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Date: Fri, Jun 09, 2000 at 20:22:22 (GMT) From: Helen Email: None To: Forum fairies Subject: Love the green lines under unread posts!(nt) Message:

green is the best color

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Date: Fri, Jun 09, 2000 at 21:35:26 (GMT) From: Nigel Email: fitzroy@liverpool.ac.uk To: Helen Subject: How come I haven't got any? (nt) Message:

Ha-ha, I bet you all clicked anyway, after that last thread about 'nt' posts, didn't you? Well tough titty! There ain't no content worth the reading in here - in fact if you have read this far I can guarantee you are wasting your time, squandering your precious life and God knows how many happy new breaths. So, for your own sake, just click your 'back' button right NOW, OK? Right, did you do that? No, obviously not, so perhaps someone would care to explain what the effing hell you are doing still reading this crap when I told you half a dozen sentences back that there is absolutely NO substance in what follows. Not a sausage. Zilch, zip, zero... Not a whispered whiff of mind-blowing rhetoric or the thrilling cut and thrust of verbal repartee or bollock-busting badinage, no palette-pleasing polemics or extemporaneous exposition or finely honed homily... Oh, what the hell, I'm getting bored now, too, so I might as well tell you a joke (from Spike Milligan): Man loses his dog and places a small-ad in the local paper: 'Here boy!', he writes. (reposted from below from where it probably wouldn't have been noticed... as if it mattered)

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Date: Sun, Jun 11, 2000 at 19:28:59 (GMT) From: Roger eDrek Email: drek@oz.net To: Nigel Subject: Nigel, you ARE evil (nt) Message:

Ha-ha, I bet you all clicked anyway, after that last thread about 'nt' posts, didn't you? Well tough titty! There ain't no content worth the reading in here - in fact if you have read this far I can guarantee you are wasting your time, squandering your precious life and God knows how many happy new breaths. So, for your own sake, just click your 'back' button right NOW, OK? Right, did you do that? No, obviously not, so perhaps someone would care to explain what the effing hell you are doing still reading this crap when I told you half a dozen sentences back that there is absolutely NO substance in what follows. Not a sausage. Zilch, zip, zero... Not a whispered whiff of mind-blowing rhetoric or the thrilling cut and thrust of verbal repartee or bollock-busting badinage, no palette-pleasing polemics or extemporaneous exposition or finely honed homily... Oh, what the hell, I'm getting bored now, too, so I might as well tell you a joke (from Spike Milligan): Man loses his dog and places a small-ad in the local paper: 'Here boy!', he writes. (reposted from below from where it probably wouldn't have been noticed... as if it mattered)

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Date: Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 04:06:52 (GMT) From: Helen Email: None To: Nigel Subject: Tough titty--LOL(nt) Message:

OUCH!

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Date: Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 15:43:59 (GMT) From: Katie Email: None To: Helen Subject: I think it's your computer, Helen... Message:

...unless you're seeing things - snicker.

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Date: Sun, Jun 11, 2000 at 01:23:35 (GMT) From: Helen Email: None To: Katie Subject: I think it's your computer, Helen... Message:

Noone else is seeing neon green lines under the post titles? Oh sh*t I must be having flashbacks or something....

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Date: Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 02:23:20 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: Nigel Subject: Maybe because you haven't come out yet (nt) Message:

fff

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