Forum V: Archive
Compiled: Fri, Jun 16, 2000 at 11:13:17 (GMT)
From: Jun 06, 2000 To: Jun 14, 2000 Page: 5 Of: 5


Keith -:- No regrets. Part two. -:- Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 04:12:48 (GMT)
__ Charlie -:- No regrets. Part two. -:- Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 09:43:18 (GMT)
__ la-ex -:- No regrets. Part two. -:- Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 05:26:43 (GMT)
__ __ Keith -:- Krishnamurti -:- Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 08:59:14 (GMT)
__ __ __ Elaine -:- Krishnamurti -:- Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 15:04:58 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Keith -:- Krishnamurti -:- Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 17:48:54 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Elaine -:- Krishnamurti -:- Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 21:52:50 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Elaine -:- Krishnamurti -:- Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 15:41:20 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Way -:- To Elaine -:- Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 15:46:58 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Elaine -:- To Elaine -:- Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 15:51:33 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Jim -:- Elaine's 'Guided' Spiritual Shopping Trip -:- Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 15:16:37 (GMT)
__ __ __ Jim -:- Krishnamurti was a pompous windbag -:- Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 13:12:46 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Keith -:- Jim is a pompous windbag -:- Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 17:58:02 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Way -:- Re:Krishnamurti and Maharaji -:- Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 15:34:26 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Gregg -:- Re:Krishnamurti and Maharaji -:- Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 18:33:52 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Way -:- To Gregg -:- Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 18:42:15 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Keith -:- To Gregg and way -:- Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 18:58:26 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Keith -:- Re:Krishnamurti and Maharaji -:- Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 18:22:44 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- I so strongly agree -- right up to ... THERE -:- Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 15:39:53 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ gErRy -:- Now yer talkin' !!! -:- Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 16:07:50 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ keith -:- Now yer talkin' !!! -:- Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 18:42:13 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Way -:- Effortless effort -:- Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 19:12:51 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Keith -:- Effortless effort -:- Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 19:19:02 (GMT)

Zorba -:- Holy family update -:- Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 04:07:19 (GMT)
__ Joe -:- Holy family update -:- Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 17:12:23 (GMT)
__ __ G -:- Amar -:- Thurs, Jun 08, 2000 at 03:09:35 (GMT)
__ __ Secret Agent Man -:- I saw Joan Apter not too long ago with premies -:- Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 18:44:43 (GMT)
__ __ __ bb -:- JIM? -:- Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 22:08:38 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Jim -:- No, I didn't say that (did I?) -:- Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 23:56:26 (GMT)
__ __ __ Know It All -:- SAM -- shall we meet in Boston? -:- Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 19:27:49 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ jondon -:- Setting up shop in Boston -:- Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 22:19:53 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ bb -:- Jondon......................JIM? -:- Thurs, Jun 08, 2000 at 04:42:02 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Secret Agent Man -:- Just booked my flight to Boston -:- Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 19:51:34 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Know It All -:- Hotel? -:- Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 20:18:48 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Selene -:- so now we know who is Know * -:- Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 19:48:18 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Secret Agent Man -:- Nope, you are incorrect SAM != Secret Agent Man -:- Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 19:53:49 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- I was playing -:- Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 20:03:12 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Know It All -:- I was playing -:- Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 20:16:05 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- as I said I was playing -:- Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 20:20:08 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Secret Agent Man -:- Hey, let's not talk about female body parts here -:- Thurs, Jun 08, 2000 at 17:27:53 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- ooopss! very off day yesterday -:- Thurs, Jun 08, 2000 at 18:58:51 (GMT)
__ __ Selene -:- thanks Joe that was really my point -:- Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 17:18:31 (GMT)
__ __ __ Joe -:- thanks Joe that was really my point -:- Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 20:24:10 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Selene -:- yes it was the sex vibe -:- Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 20:26:39 (GMT)
__ Jean-Michel -:- DIVINE EDICT OR HUMAN BLOOD? -:- Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 16:51:09 (GMT)
__ la-ex -:- Holy family update -:- Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 06:02:05 (GMT)
__ __ zorbill -:- Holy family update -:- Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 22:02:17 (GMT)
__ __ __ Faith's Daughter's Name -:- is Lotus. NT -:- Thurs, Jun 08, 2000 at 04:15:00 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ bb -:- Lotus -:- Thurs, Jun 08, 2000 at 04:49:10 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Not who you think I am bb -:- but I did like your post above. -:- Fri, Jun 09, 2000 at 01:59:03 (GMT)
__ __ __ Elaine -:- Bill P. -:- Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 22:08:28 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Joe -:- Jane Patterson -- very nice person... -:- Thurs, Jun 08, 2000 at 00:25:49 (GMT)
__ sam -:- Holy family update -:- Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 05:36:47 (GMT)
__ Selene -:- ok premies? please to answer -:- Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 04:59:45 (GMT)
__ __ Elaine -:- ok premies? please to answer -:- Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 15:10:13 (GMT)
__ __ __ Lotus eater -:- Daya -:- Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 22:27:28 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Elaine -:- Daya -:- Thurs, Jun 08, 2000 at 15:31:21 (GMT)
__ __ __ gerry -:- ok premies? please to answer -:- Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 16:21:30 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Elaine -:- ok premies? please to answer -:- Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 21:58:39 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Selene -:- can you imagine? -:- Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 17:06:50 (GMT)
__ __ thee 'MTVee bleach blond -:- ok? please to answer/lean clean machine -:- Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 10:21:50 (GMT)
__ __ __ Selene -:- good, one less pair of balls -:- Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 17:08:25 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ gerry -:- LOL LOL... -:- Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 17:23:04 (GMT)

jondon -:- Steve Hassan interview -:- Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 01:59:25 (GMT)
__ Jan-Michel -:- It's all here, follow the link -:- Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 07:39:21 (GMT)
__ __ Daneane -:- Jan-Michel?? J-M's mom is posting now too??(nt) -:- Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 13:02:56 (GMT)
__ Joe -:- The Guru Papers -:- Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 03:04:00 (GMT)
__ Jim -:- The Guru Papers rocks -:- Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 02:10:47 (GMT)
__ __ jondon -:- Thanks...will begin search(nt) -:- Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 02:15:30 (GMT)
__ __ __ Monmot -:- Try.... -:- Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 02:56:03 (GMT)
__ __ __ Daneane -:- Try Powell's books for a used copy(nt) -:- Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 02:49:33 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ jondon -:- Thanks to All (nt) -:- Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 10:49:45 (GMT)

Nigel -:- Off topic but relevant to forum... (nt?) -:- Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 00:42:32 (GMT)
__ Helen -:- This just in--Maharaji is really a woman (nt) -:- Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 11:09:03 (GMT)
__ __ Coach -:- Internet Gender Changers (ott) -:- Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 14:24:53 (GMT)
__ __ __ Nigella -:- psst, you wanna know my little secret? (nt) -:- Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 16:08:59 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Helen -:- Fiffi? Nigella? -:- Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 22:56:39 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ G -:- I'll be Gina (nt) -:- Thurs, Jun 08, 2000 at 02:55:00 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Monmot -:- Well, Then I'll be Manmot (nt) -:- Thurs, Jun 08, 2000 at 03:06:54 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Horatio -:- Manmot/Gina (nt) -:- Thurs, Jun 08, 2000 at 20:34:16 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Fifi -:- Arise Lord Admiral Horatio Gina Manmot (not) -:- Fri, Jun 09, 2000 at 00:04:50 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Tami Rainbow -:- Arise Lord Admiral Horatio Gina Manmot (not) -:- Fri, Jun 09, 2000 at 01:40:23 (GMT)

Gilead -:- Marianne, Are You Back In Bay Area? Peoples Temple -:- Tues, Jun 06, 2000 at 22:31:43 (GMT)

Jim -:- Just talked to Maharaji's lawyers again -:- Tues, Jun 06, 2000 at 16:26:05 (GMT)
__ Runamok -:- Just talked to Maharaji's lawyers again -:- Thurs, Jun 08, 2000 at 04:43:18 (GMT)
__ Katie -:- Just talked to Maharaji's lawyers again -:- Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 15:42:05 (GMT)
__ __ Helen -:- Just talked to Maharaji's lawyers again -:- Thurs, Jun 08, 2000 at 20:48:04 (GMT)
__ Joe -:- Did she kept a straight face while she said it? -:- Tues, Jun 06, 2000 at 21:00:21 (GMT)
__ __ VP -:- Did she kept a straight face while she said it? -:- Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 19:26:07 (GMT)
__ __ (Sir) David -:- So you haven't seen this then? -:- Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 01:15:20 (GMT)
__ __ __ VP -:- So you haven't seen this then? -:- Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 19:34:23 (GMT)
__ __ __ Joe -:- That's the one that isn't all that different....nt -:- Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 02:53:39 (GMT)
__ __ __ Roger eDrek -:- I LOVE IT, I LOVE IT! -:- Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 01:30:46 (GMT)
__ __ Nigel -:- Pssst, senor, adult-rated adulterated pictures.... -:- Tues, Jun 06, 2000 at 23:31:55 (GMT)
__ Daneane -:- Just talked to Maharaji's lawyers again -:- Tues, Jun 06, 2000 at 18:12:14 (GMT)
__ raina -:- 'She didn't know what to say' -:- Tues, Jun 06, 2000 at 17:11:58 (GMT)
__ __ Jim -:- Shut up, Raina (nt) -:- Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 00:52:25 (GMT)
__ __ Roger eDrek -:- Freudian slip, Raina or whomever you are or were -:- Tues, Jun 06, 2000 at 19:57:17 (GMT)
__ __ __ Nigel -:- Freudian slip, Raina or whomever you are or were -:- Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 00:23:20 (GMT)
__ __ __ raina -:- the more of a LOSER...the more o's..loooooooozer -:- Tues, Jun 06, 2000 at 23:21:23 (GMT)
__ __ cq -:- Could've been 'She didn't say what she knew'?(nt) -:- Tues, Jun 06, 2000 at 17:15:57 (GMT)
__ __ __ raina -:- Coulda been.Coulda been.Coulda been. Coulda been. -:- Tues, Jun 06, 2000 at 17:24:54 (GMT)
__ Roger eDrek -:- Say what? -:- Tues, Jun 06, 2000 at 17:06:36 (GMT)
__ __ raina -:- you would sue your ISP -:- Tues, Jun 06, 2000 at 17:19:06 (GMT)
__ __ __ cq -:- Veeeerrrrry interesting point there Raina -:- Tues, Jun 06, 2000 at 17:43:22 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ raina -:- 'knowledge' comes in handy....always -:- Tues, Jun 06, 2000 at 17:59:21 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Nigel -:- Not so funny when ISP's take it seriously -:- Tues, Jun 06, 2000 at 23:44:29 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ raina -:- My point is that the energy is misdirected... -:- Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 00:20:33 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ (Sir) David -:- What about the cold, grey world of toilets? -:- Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 02:36:21 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Harry -:- What about the cold, grey world of toilets? -:- Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 05:49:10 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Roger eDrek -:- Shagadelic Love that toilet bowl full o'that love -:- Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 05:33:17 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Nigel -:- So absurd it already happened. -:- Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 00:29:53 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ raina -:- talk about GROUP MINDSET!!!! -:- Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 00:40:05 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Roger eDrek -:- raina or Prem, YOU ARE SO FULL OF SHITE -:- Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 01:24:33 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ raina -:- raina or Prem, YOU ARE SO FULL OF SHITE -:- Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 02:52:19 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Roger eDrek -:- Ok, Rob (nt) -:- Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 05:25:27 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Nigel -:- The question of libel has never arisen... -:- Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 01:08:53 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ raina -:- not trying to play legal expert -:- Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 03:00:51 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Marianne -:- Not so laugable to me -:- Tues, Jun 06, 2000 at 19:43:51 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ cq -:- anyone got a few 10s of thous to spare? -:- Tues, Jun 06, 2000 at 18:31:04 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ raina -:- ure welcome? -:- Tues, Jun 06, 2000 at 23:32:24 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- hey raina -:- Tues, Jun 06, 2000 at 23:46:17 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ raina -:- hey! wanna take a walk over to roger's site? -:- Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 00:34:22 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- never really looked at that site -:- Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 02:20:39 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ raina -:- 2 read or not 2 read............ -:- Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 02:45:39 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Harry -:- 2 read or not 2 read............ -:- Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 03:37:39 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ raina -:- 2 read or not 2 read............ -:- Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 03:47:23 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Harry -:- 2 read or not 2 read............ -:- Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 03:59:21 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Harry -:- Harryji Inc. -:- Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 22:19:41 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ raina -:- dialogue vs. soliloquer -:- Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 22:46:41 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Humble Harry -:- dialogue vs. soliloquer -:- Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 23:26:13 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ raina -:- infinity..................................... (NT) -:- Thurs, Jun 08, 2000 at 01:09:09 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Harry -:- Cool, I've never been there........nt -:- Thurs, Jun 08, 2000 at 09:28:46 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Mistress Grammar -:- And you also love... -:- Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 21:26:22 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Harry -:- And you also love... -:- Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 21:48:18 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Mistress Grammar -:- And you also love... -:- Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 23:25:53 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Rob -:- 2 read or not 2 read............ -:- Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 03:56:49 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ (Sir) David -:- Not directed at you Raina and here's a paradox -:- Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 03:14:29 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ raina -:- re: the speed of light..... -:- Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 03:19:34 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- don't know really -:- Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 02:53:59 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ raina -:- don't know really -:- Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 03:05:55 (GMT)
__ gErRy -:- All I can say is... -:- Tues, Jun 06, 2000 at 17:00:14 (GMT)
__ __ Slit Their Throats WPC -:- The World Peace Corp will scour the earth for -:- Tues, Jun 06, 2000 at 17:08:10 (GMT)
__ __ __ (Sir) David -:- The World Peace Corp will scour the earth for -:- Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 01:28:36 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Monmot -:- Mr. Slit Yer Throat Lives in D.C. and... -:- Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 01:36:22 (GMT)

Town Crier -:- Steve Hassan On CBS/Boston Radio Tonight -:- Tues, Jun 06, 2000 at 13:29:57 (GMT)
__ jondon -:- Steve Hassan On CBS/Boston Radio Tonight -:- Tues, Jun 06, 2000 at 13:57:57 (GMT)
__ __ Town Crier -:- Steve Hassan On CBS/Boston Radio Tonight -:- Tues, Jun 06, 2000 at 14:02:50 (GMT)

Brian -:- New Journeys Entry -:- Tues, Jun 06, 2000 at 10:00:31 (GMT)
__ Way -:- Thanks to Adrian (nt) -:- Tues, Jun 06, 2000 at 17:11:57 (GMT)
__ __ cq -:- I enjoyed- U write well. When's part 2 coming?(nt) -:- Tues, Jun 06, 2000 at 17:18:59 (GMT)
__ __ __ Daneane -:- Me too - liked 'bait and switch'(nt) -:- Tues, Jun 06, 2000 at 18:41:47 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Helen -:- Me too - liked 'bait and switch'(nt) -:- Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 11:15:08 (GMT)

Loaf -:- What is a Premie...its a 70s/80s term -:- Tues, Jun 06, 2000 at 06:51:11 (GMT)
__ lotus eater -:- What is a Premie...its a 70s/80s term -:- Tues, Jun 06, 2000 at 23:19:01 (GMT)
__ __ I only mean to say that -:- new folks won't think it applies to them (nt) -:- Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 05:12:30 (GMT)
__ cq -:- ah ... but sparking curiosity is a great draw (nt) -:- Tues, Jun 06, 2000 at 17:45:52 (GMT)


Date: Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 04:12:48 (GMT)
From: Keith
Email: vayukeith@netscape.net
To: Everyone
Subject: No regrets. Part two.
Message:
There is a view abroad that there was nothing of significant value in the years spent as a premie. I accept that this is true for many. If you say it's true then I accept it. But it wasn't true for me. And this is not a mental ploy to justify illusions that I can't let go of. I never projected such total images onto Maharaji in the first place. Perhaps that was partly the era. I got involved in 1982. Premiedom had moderated somewhat from the earlier years. But also my own background contributed. I was sceptical of gurus and authority figures in general. My 'mentor' was Krishnamurti. I loved his all-questioning slant. I'd spent time with him and even heard him ridicule Maharaji. To me Krishnamurti had real integrity.
In the late seventies a lot of my closest friends became premies. Some of them set up a premie house together. Others joined ashrams. I argued long and hard with them. I couldn't believe that such intelligent people could get sucked into a cult like that. And then I got sucked in to. I liked the sat sang get togethers. I liked the initiators. I liked the sense of community. And I received knowledge after guru charanand told me I would gain more from knowledge than any thing else I'd tried or experienced. But I continued to question whatever felt 'not right' even if this isolated me from other premies. But my life for the next 16 years did not revolve around Maharaji. I did not put all my eggs in one basket. Krishnamurti and others I'd been aquainted with including Swami Krishna,a resident Indian guru here in Australia , were as high om my list of 'great souls' as Maharaji.
The fact is that I did not get railroaded by these involvements. They were simply a part of my experimentation with life. And some people who were very close to me were undoubtedly helped greately by their time as premies too. But remaining too long at home with mummy and daddy can be detrimental. And certainly the time was ripe to get out. And for some of those close friends too. Now,I'm not trying to disregard the experiences many other premies have had. The deeper traumas of their years as premies I acknowledge. But these experiences are not universal. And that needs to be acknowledged too. The more extreme perspectives about Maharaji are not universally true to all ex-premies. No one person can sum up who Maharaji is or is not for everyone else. To do so would be too claim an arrogant view which is what many claim Maharaji to have. I once heard Maharaji ridiculing the concept of the holy family that was projected on his earlier years. He spoke of the chaotic goings on in the household in deradun. 'Some holy family!' he exclaimed.
He has been humble at times. He has exposed his less than perfectness at times. And he has shared some truly wonderful stuff at times. This for me is simple fact. But I am not excusing him for the other stuff. He has played out a role that is ancient yet destructive ultimately. That of 'perfect master' or Messiah or Sat Guru or Avatar. And he has created a cult. So he mixed and matched. I got off lightly it seems. My involvement lasted as long as I needed it to. My choice. No regrets. I've generally enjoyed being me and living the life I've lived. And I blame no one for nothing. As Harry said in another post, no one has held a gun at my head. Anyway, thankgod, we are individuals and not ex-premie clones all agreeing on everything, which would be mighty suspicious. Anti-cultists must not become anti-cultist cultists must they? I prefer to look at myself rather than point the finger. It's true. Who said it? Point a finger and three point back.
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Date: Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 09:43:18 (GMT)
From: Charlie
Email: None
To: Keith
Subject: No regrets. Part two.
Message:
Keith - I prefer to look at myself rather than point the finger. It's true. Who said it? Point a finger and three point back.

--

No offence meant Keith but you're talking shite.

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Date: Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 05:26:43 (GMT)
From: la-ex
Email: None
To: Keith
Subject: No regrets. Part two.
Message:
Keith-I too regarded Krishnamurti as my first great teacher/philosopher, so we have something in common.I'm just curious-what was it like to hang out with him?Did you have any interesting conversations abut life?What was he like in everyday life?And what did he think of maharaji?
I'd be interested in talking a bit more about him with you.
LA-EX
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Date: Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 08:59:14 (GMT)
From: Keith
Email: None
To: la-ex
Subject: Krishnamurti
Message:
1979. Saanen, Switzerland. I spoke to 'him' about how to become free of hurt. Especially hurts that occured before memory recall. At the time I was undergoing primal therapy with someone who had been trained by Arthur Janov. I was living in Zurich. Krishnaji, as I used to call him, said something like 'when one is a baby and some other child snatches your teddybear one cries. That is mine! So it starts.' He didn't tell me how to get free. He didn't like to play personal therapist. He regarded Maharaji..well..he found it appaling that someone could make the kind of claims he did. I remember a premie in our presense explaining about knowledge, etc. This was still three years before my involvement with M. The others present sniggered and laughed. But Krishnaji said. ' Don't laugh. This is too serious. It's not a laughing matter. Someone plays this game. Follow me and you will find peace. ' And so on. Being in Krishnamurti's presense was very special. Because he was so 'real'. And so commited to the truth of ones own inner experience and the process of inner questioning that was the hallmark of his teaching, for me.
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Date: Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 15:04:58 (GMT)
From: Elaine
Email: None
To: Keith
Subject: Krishnamurti
Message:
I knew it - Primal Scream is like a bible to me. I buy every copy I find - they are very hard to locate. I let friends borrow them.
I didn't know you were so connected to Krishnamurti - I will Definitely look him up more -it's been years.

You're talking SHIT, KEITH!!!

Just my way of toughening you up.Feel the feeling - see the unreality and breath 1 and 2 and exhale 1 and 2.Don't want you being influenced by the meanies. :) And with talk like yours here- I'm afraid it brings them out.

Shock jock,
Elaine

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Date: Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 17:48:54 (GMT)
From: Keith
Email: None
To: Elaine
Subject: Krishnamurti
Message:
Jim's trying to match make us Elaine , the son of a gun. Thinks we are two of a kind. How kind! Mind you, I wouldn't use shock tactics like you do. Fuck me dead. No way. Sorry way, no offense. Ooops ! Get serious now. But it is 3.40 am. I need some comic relief.
I've read the posts below. Don't go saying anything positive about Krishnamurti will you. Jim will use us as a forum joke. And you know how that naughty boy can hurt with his well chosen, real, heartfelt, FUCKING words.
So, how does it feel? To print the word fuck and fucking and....
Can't you feel how Jim must get a 'rush'?
It's been a while since I was over on K's site.
Must go and have a perusal.
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Date: Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 21:52:50 (GMT)
From: Elaine
Email: None
To: Keith
Subject: Krishnamurti
Message:
Ya know, it didn't trip my trigger saying 'Shit and fuck 'in bold letters. Guess I just can't muster up the anger. ( Shhh -I never read Jim's posts anymore). I think there's no offense doing that - I just saw his posts as uncooked Brussel sprouts on my plate and decided to pass over them - --

See ya,
Elaine

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Date: Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 15:41:20 (GMT)
From: Elaine
Email: None
To: Keith
Subject: Krishnamurti
Message:
Hey Keith - you didn't tell me there is a whole chat room over there-neat. :)
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Date: Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 15:46:58 (GMT)
From: Way
Email: None
To: Elaine
Subject: To Elaine
Message:
Where's that chatroom? I would be interested.
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Date: Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 15:51:33 (GMT)
From: Elaine
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: To Elaine
Message:
Well, I'm no expert - but as I recall- I just typed in Krishnamurti in the 'Search' box and a whole list of things came up - I think I clicked the basic info line - hmmm - didn't memorize what I did -but found it first thing.

There was a guy saying 'Am I missing something?' and a bunch of responses. You could pick topics w/ dates to click to.

Pretty easy,

Elaine

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Date: Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 15:16:37 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Elaine
Subject: Elaine's 'Guided' Spiritual Shopping Trip
Message:
Are you sure you're not Shp, Elaine? Shp was a folksy new-ager like you who also had absolutely no interest or ability to see through any of this shit. You guys would love each other.

(Sorry, Keith, not trying to fuck things up for you or anything. Why don't you offer to do her chart or something?)

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Date: Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 13:12:46 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Keith
Subject: Krishnamurti was a pompous windbag
Message:
In the eighties when I lived in L.A. I used to listen to KPFK's 'Something's Happening', the graveyard shift spiritual / new age / interesting whacko show where host, Roy of Hollywood, an irascible, unpleasant fellow, played tapes and conducted interviews with all the circuit luminaries. Terrence McKenna got his big break there, so did a lot of guys. Anyway, Roy often played tapes of Krishnamurti, either pontificating in soliloquy or supposedly 'debating' supposed esoteric philosophical points with some guy who sounded like a physics student interested in changing his major.

Krishnamurti was a big, bad joke. Really, it was like a Peter Sellars role, I could barely take him seriously. No, I couldn't take him seriously. Every sentence preciously placed just-so in an ocean of self-important silence, it sounded as if Mr. K thought he was actually saying something. Truth is, he was the master of overblown banalities delivered with arched eyebrows and that knowing glare of the truly realized. Boring, hackneyed cliches offered as the most powerful profundities ever uttered. I just couldn't believe it.

We all know how Mr. K supposedly jumped off the avatar merry-go-round soon after Besant (or was it Blavatsky?) and the Indian Theosophists put him there. So yes, kudos for that. But what Mr. K did after wasn't so commendable in my books. He spent the rest of his life patting himself no the back for not trying to trick people into thinking he was God in living form. The only thing that interrupted this life-long self-produced awards ceremony was when other people jumped in to do the patting. Mr. K got a lot of pats for saying he wasn't God. A lot.

Mr. K's big moment was in 1929 when he dissolved the Order of whatever it was called and supposedly renounced his following:

This is no magnificent deed, because I do not want followers, and I mean this. The moment you follow someone you cease to follow Truth. I am not concerned whether you pay attention to what I say or not. I want to do a certain thing in the world and I am going to do it with unwavering concentration. I am concerning myself with only one essential thing: to set man free. I desire to free him from all cages, from all fears, and not to found religions, new sects, nor to establish new theories and new philosophies. Then you will naturally ask me why I go the world over, continually speaking. I will tell you for what reason I do this; not because I desire a following, not because I desire a special group of special disciples. (How men love to be different from their fellow-men, however ridiculous, absurd and trivial their distinctions, may be! I do not want to encourage that absurdity.) I have no disciples, no apostles, either on earth or in the realm of spirituality.

Well, it's all there, isn't it? He doesn't want a following, he just 'wants to set man free'. Yeah, right! Fact is, the guy continued to enjoy all the fruits of guru-devotion, at the level he wanted, for year after year after boring, boring year. And what did he offer? Gobbledygook like this:

Freedom is not a reaction; freedom is not a choice. It is man's pretence that because he has choice he is free. Freedom is pure observation without direction, without fear of punishment and reward. Freedom is without motive; freedom is not at the end of the evolution of man but lies in the first step of his existence. In observation one begins to discover the lack of freedom. Freedom is found in the choiceless awareness of our daily existence and activity. Thought is time. Thought is born of experience and knowledge which are inseparable from time and the past. Time is the psychological enemy of man. Our action is based on knowledge and therefore time, so man is always a slave to the past. Thought is ever-limited and so we live in constant conflict and struggle. There is no psychological evolution.

When man becomes aware of the movement of his own thoughts he will see the division between the thinker and thought, the observer and the observed, the experiencer and the experience. He will discover that this division is an illusion. Then only is there pure observation which is insight without any shadow of the past or of time. This timeless insight brings about a deep radical mutation in the mind.

Total negation is the essence of the positive. When there is negation of all those things that thought has brought about psychologically, only then is there love, which is compassion and intelligence.

If you're the kind of person who finds any meaning at all, let alone signficance in this babbling, then you're lucky. There's tons more where this hit came from. But for me, it says nothing. It's just word play. Really, Keith, I find it hard to believe that you, of all people, would be impressed. :)

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Date: Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 17:58:02 (GMT)
From: Keith
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Jim is a pompous windbag
Message:
Jim is a pompous windbag.Ooohhh...that felt good. Almost better than sex. Only kidding!Compared to Krishnamurti and Maharaji you Jim are a sheer delight. Not a pompous bone in your body. No new agey, deep silences about you. And by jove, you never bore me at all. You keep me enthralled. (YAWN).
Where was I? I am disappointed that you find it hard to believe that I of all people take K seriously. After all you have such a high opinion of me. After my cup of tea I might try to compose a more serious response. On the other hand I might not.
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Date: Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 15:34:26 (GMT)
From: Way
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Re:Krishnamurti and Maharaji
Message:
I agree with Jim's assessment of Krishnamurti, although it is really fascinating for me to read Keith's first-hand stories.

What I find to be a problem is that Krishnamurti condemns Maharaji's teaching 'Follow me and you will have peace,' as it certainly should be condemned as a useless and dangerous teaching; but then Krishnamurti teaches that only in total negation of thought and ego does love exist. This teaching is equally dangerous for most people. It leads to an artifical effort to disengage from your own thoughts and own selfhood, an effort with is extremely frustrating and fruitless for most people, especially in youth.

This concept and practice is very similar to that advised by Ramana Maharshi and his large group of new American gurus such as Gangaji. Read some of the thank-you notes to Gangaji from her followers (on her website) and you will see people trying desperately to continually act in this world without ego. What an idealistic farce! We develop ego for a purpose - a way to act, react, interact as an individual entity. It is pathetic to see people condemning a natural part of their own Earthly nature.

I am not arguing against the experience of being in the consciousness beyond ego and thoughts, which is a blessing when it natually happens for many people as they mature. I am certainly not arguing against intuitions from higher mind. I am arguing against any practice of prematurely attempting to leave one's mind and/or body for some purpose of reaching love and reality. This effort denies the love and reality that exists as it is, and goes against the natural order.

Yes, the duality of Earth is painful and the search for the oneness of heaven is understandable. But transcendence is close to madness and perfection is annihilation. Let freedom come when it is given, and certainly not beforehand, and in the meantime let us use this finite vehicle to express honesty and find our fulfillment in that.

I find it interesting that the search for transcendence is no longer a part of Rawat's take on 'Knowledge.' He never speaks about a student 'realizing Knowledge' anymore, or about a student graduating from the Master. His teaching is that the actual experience of Knowledge is the love between the ignorant and thirsty person and the true Master. In essence, Maharaji acknowledges that the donkey never gets the carrot, but that the gratitude itself becomes the carrot. What horrible nonsence! His cult is empty of value! The student never realizes his own potential as an individual person, the very thing we are here to do. That is why I strongly disagree with Keith's opinion that there is anything at all to gain from following Rawat. It's just like a drug that carries you along blissfully for awhile but delivers you nowhere further on the path to self-realization. We are all on this path in human life automatically. It has nothing to do with a master, it has to do with ourselves.

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Date: Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 18:33:52 (GMT)
From: Gregg
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: Re:Krishnamurti and Maharaji
Message:
Very relevant observations, Way, esp. regarding folks on a spiritual path who hear the words and TRY to MAKE it happen in their lives. Pretend they have no ego. Pretend that All is One...so nothing makes any difference. As you say, it is destructive and foolish to take what you think is good advice from enlightened masters and try to force your life into that box.

Like Little Richard says: 'If it don't fit, don't force it.'

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Date: Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 18:42:15 (GMT)
From: Way
Email: None
To: Gregg
Subject: To Gregg
Message:
You got my point exactly.
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Date: Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 18:58:26 (GMT)
From: Keith
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: To Gregg and way
Message:
I totally agree too. But so I believe would have krishnamurti.And dare I say it. Even Maharaji. It is too obvious. It is true nonetheless that 'FOLLOWERS' tend to imitate their masters or teachers. And become overly literal in trying to 'live' the truth. Even Jim sound like dawkins to me sometimes. It seems to be a part of the process. What Jung called the individuation process. The journey towards discovering my own unique individuality. Most'followers' by definition,it seems to me have damaged, confused or low self esteems or senses of who they are. They therefore unconsciously take on the psuedo personas of those they look up to. Children do this all the time. It's a part of the process. Premies do try and live the truth. So did Krishnamurti's 'followers'. So do most football fans behave in a particular fashion. Clubby. Clanish. False. Sure. But, I believe this is outgrown in time. Even many ex's sound clannish often. Of course the clan members are usually going to deny this. No, not me. Not us. Who is to blame? Could it be each one of us? Could it be it is not a matter of blame? Just a part of human growth?
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Date: Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 18:22:44 (GMT)
From: Keith
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: Re:Krishnamurti and Maharaji
Message:
Yes way, I agree too that we should be wary of dividing ourselves into ego and non-ego. Who is typing these words now? Dangerous stuff. But it is not true, for me at least, that Krishnamurti ever suggested or intended to say anything of the sort. The problem is that our clever little minds can twist others words so easily, usually to suit our own purposes. I'm talking in general here. What some ex's here seem to do is to take afew sentences or passages out of context and then put their own slanted interpretation on them. It's a ruse. Jim loves to insist that people like me, Elaine, Maharaji and Krishnamurti(wow, Elaine, we are in exalted company. Down ego, down boy!) play with words. Which means we speak with forked tongues. Which implies that somehow we talk a lot of meaningless babble. Or even shite. How could I forget charlie? In contrast, people like Jim and hawkins and other intellectual giants talk profound, non-pompous, straight to the point wisdom. I get this feeling in my gut that Jim would be agreeing with this assessment as he is reading it.
Son of a revolver ! God, my ego is really running amok. I might even start thinking I'm WITTY.
Anyway, I do not feel in the mood to defend Krishnamurti against Jim's or whoever's perception. Indeed, many did think K pompous. That oh so English manner of his. Seemed incongrous in an Indian. Damn Oxford conditioning, not to mention all those pompous theosophists he hung out with for so many years. And even the physics guy Jim refers to(the one who sounded like he wanted to change disciplines) David Bohm, sounded oh so English too. Must have been a cult where everyone tried to sound oh so English! One point I would make is this. If someone wants to get to know me(or you or anyone) really well then they should listen to my words over a longish period of time. Unless that is I am the type of person who endlessly says the same old repetitive things. One simply cannot say everything, cover all angles in a number of sentences. Not even Jim. And yet how we love to extract a few sentences and rip into them with our analytical minds.
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Date: Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 15:39:53 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: I so strongly agree -- right up to ... THERE
Message:
I find it interesting that the search for transcendence is no longer a part of Rawat's take on 'Knowledge.' He never speaks about a student 'realizing Knowledge' anymore, or about a student graduating from the Master. His teaching is that the actual experience of Knowledge is the love between the ignorant and thirsty person and the true Master. In essence, Maharaji acknowledges that the donkey never gets the carrot, but that the gratitude itself becomes the carrot. What horrible nonsen[s]e! His cult is empty of value! The student never realizes his own potential as an individual person,

... that part is so well said. Thanks, Way. Beside misspelling 'nonsense' you hit the nail exactly on the head. However, this part here:

the very thing we are here to do.

leaves me cold. But you knew that.

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Date: Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 16:07:50 (GMT)
From: gErRy
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: Now yer talkin' !!!
Message:
I am arguing against any practice of prematurely attempting to leave one's mind and/or body for some purpose of reaching love and reality. This effort denies the love and reality that exists as it is, and goes against the natural order.

Let freedom come when it is given, and certainly not beforehand...

All this 'efforting' IS a waste of time. So well put Way, even Jim understands it. (snicker)

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Date: Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 18:42:13 (GMT)
From: keith
Email: None
To: gErRy
Subject: Now yer talkin' !!!
Message:
Krishnamurti so often spoke of effortless effort. Think about what this means Gerry. It's not just a play on words. When I go to the loo (dunny, eh,toilet) do I not make an effortless effort? Unless it's bloody freezing like it is here at this time. One makes an effort. otherwise nothing would happen. But there is no sense of conflict or duality. Language is so fucking finite. But one way of expressing this could be. My SELF and my ego go in unity to the bog. Are there two me's? Of course there are. Jim would probably say I am a whole rent a crowd. But there is the conditioned mind-self. And there is this other fellow. Not so mindy at all but quite capable of using the mind as a vehicle of communication. The jokey and the horse. And the jokey is not a joke. Only can have a sense of the ridiculous at times.
One can descibe ANYTHING IN A MULTITUDE OF WAYS. And then argue about what is really just a whole lot of the real mind games.
Semantics dear Watson. For me people like Jim are the real pompous babblers. But you see it is merely my subjective take on things. Same for Jim. Same for us all. Jim seeks some type of certaintity of perspective. Some scientific standard of realness.
That's just another trap. A crap trap. Because science is effective in matters of materialistic phenomona. Measurable. Quantifiable. Who can measure love? Or intelligence? Or wit? Humans are not bio-chemical computors. We are spirit. However we choose to descibe that in words or in art. But Jim would reduce us to some mechanical biological biochemical mental zombies. That is what his theories imply. I happen to totally disagree.
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Date: Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 19:12:51 (GMT)
From: Way
Email: None
To: Keith
Subject: Effortless effort
Message:
Effortless effort? Now you're really going to be on Jim's bad side!

I think it must be past your bedtime. Your potty analogy is more reminiscent of Rawat than Krishnamurti.

Anyway, I'm with you on the issue of us being more than biochemical computers.

Good night!

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Date: Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 19:19:02 (GMT)
From: Keith
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: Effortless effort
Message:
It could be that I'm in danger of losing 'my Way'. Sorry. I am overtired. Quite right.
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Date: Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 04:07:19 (GMT)
From: Zorba
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Holy family update
Message:
A premie called last night and during the lengthy discussion told me news from a malibu friend that the malibu premies all know about Daya having a cocaine problem and also that amar the youngest son and previous heir apparent was 'terrorizing premies with his motorcycle' he drives at them.
She also said that the kids are sick of the premies. I heard that before.

What gets to the old die hards the most is the news of his personal behind the stage behaviour.
The news of his mistresses and drug and alcohol use and his denials of the past claims to be our lord also seem to make them catch thier breath.
News that Joan Apter has joined Bill Patterson and Claudia and all the rest of the former initiators and community stalwarts also helps break the brainlock M has on them from the past.
I suggest that leaflets contain that kind of info.

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Date: Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 17:12:23 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Zorba
Subject: Holy family update
Message:
Unless Joan Apter split recently, I think you are wrong about her. I think she still professes to being a devotee of Maharaji. At least she posted on enjoinglife, and Jim talked to her on the phone, and she confirmed her continued neurotic, perhaps psychotic, need to follow the living lord.

Patterson and Claudia are definitely no longer into Maharaji as followers, and I think Claudia is definitely on the outs with the Rawat crowd after she and Raja Ji divorced.

Rawat's kids getting into cocaine wouldn't be all that surprising -- certainly this is a fairly common problem among rich kids in the USA, especially places like Malibu. In Malibu it's cocaine because the kids can afford it. In South Central, it's crack because that's all those kids can afford. It all comes from cocaine, though. If it's true, I hope Daya gets some help for her problem. I know other families in which this has happened, and it's very difficult to deal with.

I'm not surprised his kids are sick of premies. I was sure sick of premies and I wasn't around them, being waited on by them, since I was born. Most teenagers want to be left alone.

It must be SO FUCKING WEIRD to have a father that a lot of people think is god. GEEZ. I would think you would need 5 decades of therapy just to deal with that. I think I would take drugs too.

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Date: Thurs, Jun 08, 2000 at 03:09:35 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Amar
Message:

I'm not surprised his kids are sick of premies. I was sure sick of premies and I wasn't around them, being waited on by them, since I was born. Most teenagers want to be left alone.

It must be SO FUCKING WEIRD to have a father that a lot of people think is god. GEEZ. I would think you would need 5 decades of therapy just to deal with that. I think I would take drugs too.

I saw Amar many years ago asking where his daddy was. It seemed to me that he thought the whole thing was yes, FUCKING WEIRD. It seemed to be a burden on him, given the way he asked. And he didn't seem fond of premies. That's the impression I got anyway.

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Date: Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 18:44:43 (GMT)
From: Secret Agent Man
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: I saw Joan Apter not too long ago with premies
Message:
While Joan Apter may have recently changed her tune, I saw her, god I can't remember exactly when, last summer or the summer of 1998 in a major U.S. city in the company of practicing premies on a weekend that Raja Ji was to speak to the community.
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Date: Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 22:08:38 (GMT)
From: bb
Email: None
To: Secret Agent Man
Subject: JIM?
Message:
I believe that when Jim posted about his call to Joan, he mentioned her comment that she doesnt follow him anymore but some other guy.
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Date: Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 23:56:26 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: bb
Subject: No, I didn't say that (did I?)
Message:
I can't remember her saying anything about following anyone else and she certainly didn't diss the Hamster. It was more a matter of her just, you know, 'getting on with her life'. No regrets. Everything was just fine.
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Date: Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 19:27:49 (GMT)
From: Know It All
Email: None
To: Secret Agent Man
Subject: SAM -- shall we meet in Boston?
Message:
SAM: We've been out of touch since our last trip to Malibu for the birthday party. Want to meet up in Boston for some good times at the Copley Theater? I won't have any trouble getting in. I suspect you're safe too.

If you don't want to actually go inside, we could set up a www.ex-premie.org table on the sidewalk outside the event. I have contacted the appropriate licensing authorities in Boston and it is very easy to get a permit for such a table. I have lots of old cult literature that we could distribute, along with cards for the website. Luckily I also downloaded that photo of the gooroo with the his enlarged breasts, all in living color. We could distribute those too. No better exercise of First Amendment rights that I can imagine, can you?

What do you think?

KIA

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Date: Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 22:19:53 (GMT)
From: jondon
Email: None
To: Know It All
Subject: Setting up shop in Boston
Message:
I was thinking, if any reporter was to come by it would be better fodder if you acted like a 70's Premie, you know, 'Maharaji is the LOTU, he is God. Anyone tries to throw a pie in his face, I'll personally slice his throat.' I think that gives the type of attention the media would love. Being anti-M won't sell as well. Subliminally, it would. Blatantly, not.
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Date: Thurs, Jun 08, 2000 at 04:42:02 (GMT)
From: bb
Email: None
To: jondon
Subject: Jondon......................JIM?
Message:
The 'lord has come' premie approach could be fun but I am still partial to articulating the lie of the whole rotten enterprise.

Saint James, care to type up a sample leaflet in a post here?
You have a wonderful way of shining a light on this whole rathole.

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Date: Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 19:51:34 (GMT)
From: Secret Agent Man
Email: drek@oz.net
To: Know It All
Subject: Just booked my flight to Boston
Message:
I'll bring my new Sony Mini DV to document the occasion.
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Date: Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 20:18:48 (GMT)
From: Know It All
Email: None
To: Secret Agent Man
Subject: Hotel?
Message:
I will email you with my hotel reservations. Friends in Boston have obtained a permit for the sidewalk table!! Fun, fun, fun!

Will you wear the sandwich board with www.ex-premie.org on it?

See you soon.

KIA

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Date: Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 19:48:18 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Know It All
Subject: so now we know who is Know *
Message:
and 'sam' too! cute.
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Date: Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 19:53:49 (GMT)
From: Secret Agent Man
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: Nope, you are incorrect SAM != Secret Agent Man
Message:
Nor is Know the same as Know It All.

And if Secret Agent Man uses his initials she always uses S.A.M. not Sam.

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Date: Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 20:03:12 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Secret Agent Man
Subject: I was playing
Message:
don't bother to do detective work on alias.
I leave that to Roger.
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Date: Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 20:16:05 (GMT)
From: Know It All
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: I was playing
Message:
Know It All is not Know*.

Regards, KIA

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Date: Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 20:20:08 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Know It All
Subject: as I said I was playing
Message:
Really I prefer to take people at face value and not get into
this everyone is Rob and the female counterpart stuff. You know what is funny? When people trust you they show you who they are and all the sleuths fall on their fat asses anyway.

sorry if I upset you but I don't think
I did.

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Date: Thurs, Jun 08, 2000 at 17:27:53 (GMT)
From: Secret Agent Man
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: Hey, let's not talk about female body parts here
Message:
Rob and the female counterpart stuff
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Date: Thurs, Jun 08, 2000 at 18:58:51 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Secret Agent Man
Subject: ooopss! very off day yesterday
Message:
If you knew what I had to do you'd understand.
But hey, thanks for the joke and for understanding.
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Date: Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 17:18:31 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: thanks Joe that was really my point
Message:
or point to my question of why the kids would want drugs.
The plain simple fact is they grew up in the family business like any other rich kids. Nothing mystical about it.
Just very fucking weird though!
I guess what bothers me is that the whole family still keeps the pretense going SO strong. Daya singing to her 'father' on stage really creeped me out the last few gooroodoos I went to.
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Date: Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 20:24:10 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: thanks Joe that was really my point
Message:
Yeah, I saw a video of a program in Long Beach and Daya sang love songs to her father while wearing very sexy clothing. It creeped me out. It seemed so strange that she would do that, and even more strange that he would let her do that. I felt like Maharaji was either really exploiting Daya, or that she was so confused she had no idea how weird it looked but wanted the attention, or maybe both.
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Date: Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 20:26:39 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: yes it was the sex vibe
Message:
Salesmanship. working the crowd.
I did not like it. It's one thing when you go to a rock concert.
and you know the ones I've been to had a cleaner vibe.
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Date: Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 16:51:09 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Zorba
Subject: DIVINE EDICT OR HUMAN BLOOD?
Message:
I just stumbled on this on D. Lane's website .....

How 'Family' Connections Influence Guru Succession in Radhasoami

I don't really know all the reasons behind why a certain successor is chosen by a Radhasoami guru, but I do know that 'family' relations appear to play a much bigger part in the process than is generally known. Now of course it can be argued that a prior blood connection is merely 'coincidental' to why the esteemed guru chose his son/nephew/daughter, etc., as his/her heir. The guru in question could argue, I would imagine, that he chose the 'best' candidate
and it just happened to be the case (or the odds?) that the successor was from the immediate family..........

Read the article at :
What Are the Odds that 'God' Will Appoint a Relative?

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Date: Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 06:02:05 (GMT)
From: la-ex
Email: None
To: Zorba
Subject: Holy family update
Message:
Zorba-can you elaborate more about your previous post?
I am especially interested in the part about joan apter, bill patterson and claudia-do you know how to contact them, and what they are up to?
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Date: Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 22:02:17 (GMT)
From: zorbill
Email: None
To: la-ex
Subject: Holy family update
Message:
According to Joe, I believe, Bill Patterson is in Denver.
The source of the info is a girl named Faith with a daughter who is mixed race. Black and white, the daughter's name I cannot remember. The one who called me is named..... well, she is thinking of going to boston so maybe I should not mention it here yet.
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Date: Thurs, Jun 08, 2000 at 04:15:00 (GMT)
From: Faith's Daughter's Name
Email: None
To: zorbill
Subject: is Lotus. NT
Message:
NT
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Date: Thurs, Jun 08, 2000 at 04:49:10 (GMT)
From: bb
Email: None
To: Faith's Daughter's Name
Subject: Lotus
Message:
Well hello there.
I mentioned you in a post tonight in the thread above started by kieth.
Take a look.
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Date: Fri, Jun 09, 2000 at 01:59:03 (GMT)
From: Not who you think I am bb
Email: None
To: bb
Subject: but I did like your post above.
Message:
I lived in the same community with Faith for a long time.
The last time I saw her, she was outside a convention center in LA somewhere. I tried to talk to her about life, kids, etc. But she was totally immersed in Maharaji--said she was doing service at the res everyday or something like that. I felt sad that we had no connection after spending so many years doing childcare together. I guess she took that 'no chit chat' satsang to heart.
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Date: Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 22:08:28 (GMT)
From: Elaine
Email: None
To: zorbill
Subject: Bill P.
Message:
Well, I always thought his sister was in Denver -- can't remember her name. Acts like a spaced out hippie bare-foot at any program still.Very nice, girl.
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Date: Thurs, Jun 08, 2000 at 00:25:49 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Elaine
Subject: Jane Patterson -- very nice person...
Message:
Jane was a real sweetie and I assume she still is. I have no idea where Bill Patterson is, just that he isn't a premie anymore.
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Date: Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 05:36:47 (GMT)
From: sam
Email: -
To: Zorba
Subject: Holy family update
Message:
up at Amaroo they had the fridge stocked well with alcohol and had a few tipsy nights round the fire. This was mainly when the delegates were there from Australia and OS. Seemed to quieten down with just the workers left.To me it was a big coffee break with heaps of people puffing away on ciggies all day- who were mostly onthe dole or being supported by contributions- guess that can be human nature and not Ms fault tho.
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Date: Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 04:59:45 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Zorba
Subject: ok premies? please to answer
Message:
Why M's daugher needs drugs?
no wait, I must be psychic I already see the answer!
oh I suppose you will say this
is all just rumour and hate mongering.
Just like Marolyns treatment and M's drinking and all the other
shit I heard when I was still around in 97-98.
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Date: Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 15:10:13 (GMT)
From: Elaine
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: ok premies? please to answer
Message:
Do I win anything?

Answer: Because she doesn't have Knowledge? :)

Do I win? Am I right?

Elaine
(I love prizes.)

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Date: Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 22:27:28 (GMT)
From: Lotus eater
Email: None
To: Elaine
Subject: Daya
Message:
Maharaji mentioned earlier this year that Daya had now received knowledge as well as Premlata
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Date: Thurs, Jun 08, 2000 at 15:31:21 (GMT)
From: Elaine
Email: None
To: Lotus eater
Subject: Daya
Message:
Well, then , MY God, there's just no excuse then.

;)

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Date: Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 16:21:30 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Elaine
Subject: ok premies? please to answer
Message:
I know that was tongue -in-cheek Elaine, but what struck me when you said Answer: Because she doesn't have Knowledge? :)

was the question 'what exactly constitutes having Knowledge? Knowing four meditation techniques? Receiving an initiation or shaktipat from a guru, or...what?' What does it mean to you?

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Date: Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 21:58:39 (GMT)
From: Elaine
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: ok premies? please to answer
Message:
Not getting philosophical ---- on 'this' site - Knowledge is just the techs. 'Receiving Kn' - -the old instructor thing as apposed to getting the techs on this site.
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Date: Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 17:06:50 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: can you imagine?
Message:
These kids grow up in the house with this bestower of knowledge, meditation, whatever they choose to call it these days.
They go to all those 'events' whatever they choose to call them these days.
Sit there basking in 'HIS' darshan, or whatever they choose to
call it these days.
And all the rest.
but there is this one little teeny thingy missing you see.
not receiving K. And so as all of us, they are vulnerable to the
trappings of this world and tend to want or need something like cocaine to make it a little easier to get through the night.
Makes perfect sense why did I ever ask such a dumb question?
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Date: Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 10:21:50 (GMT)
From: thee 'MTVee bleach blond
Email: None
To: lean/clean machine
Subject: ok? please to answer/lean clean machine
Message:
reportedly...is in love with me
physhic..eh?
or is it chemistry?
whateva...fine.....rof..laughing..m balls offf
hi doll.com
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Date: Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 17:08:25 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: lean machine
Subject: good, one less pair of balls
Message:
Attached to a brainless dork. Bad combination anyway.
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Date: Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 17:23:04 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: LOL LOL...
Message:
Well I guess you put that troll in his place !!! LOL
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Date: Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 01:59:25 (GMT)
From: jondon
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Steve Hassan interview
Message:
Listened to Steve last night on WBCN. He mentioned a book written by a friend; 'the Guru Papers'. Anyone familiar with it? Know where I can find it?

He also said, He was not up to date on M, but would love to be filled in, and in fact has been receiving much email as of late, mainly due to some great websites, such as this, which the caller plugged.

jon mike from providence don

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Date: Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 07:39:21 (GMT)
From: Jan-Michel
Email: None
To: jondon
Subject: It's all here, follow the link
Message:
Lot of what you're looking for is here ! Why don't you read what's on this website ???

Bibliography & Suggested Reading

Index

Radhasoami Tradition : Where Maharaji & his organization come from.
Divine Light Mission : Elan Vital's genuine name.
Meditation : Maharaji said the techniques of 'Knowledge' are in books. Here they are.
Ex Followers : Other cults, same drawbacks.
Psychology : Maharaji's philosophy, premies belief and ex-premies problems is nothing new.
Spirituality : Some guidelines for the inner search, much broader than 'Follow your heart and listen to me'.

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Date: Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 13:02:56 (GMT)
From: Daneane
Email: None
To: Jan-Michel
Subject: Jan-Michel?? J-M's mom is posting now too??(nt)
Message:
mommy
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Date: Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 03:04:00 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: jondon
Subject: The Guru Papers
Message:
Title: The Guru Papers: Masks of Authoritarian Power

Authors: Joel Kramer and Diana Alstad

Published by Frog, Ltd., Berkeley, California in 1993

ISBN Number: 1-883319-005

Excellent, excellent book.

Jondon, thanks for the report.

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Date: Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 02:10:47 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: jondon
Subject: The Guru Papers rocks
Message:
Yes, that's an all-time ex-premie bestseller for sure. Fairly meaty, thought-provoking analysis of 'authoritarian thought structures' including, but not limited to, cults like People's Temple, A Course in Miracles and something else, I can't remember. But it's a really good book. You can find it on the net and find some excerpts as well. Just do a search.
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Date: Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 02:15:30 (GMT)
From: jondon
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Thanks...will begin search(nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 02:56:03 (GMT)
From: Monmot
Email: None
To: jondon
Subject: Try....
Message:
Harvard Square Books (the one near Grolier's + they have a great used book section downstairs), or The House of Sarah Books near Inman Square. Also, Victor Hugo books on Newbury (1 blk south of Mass. Ave) might have it (fabulous used book store). Some bookstore in Harvard Square must have it.
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Date: Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 02:49:33 (GMT)
From: Daneane
Email: None
To: jondon
Subject: Try Powell's books for a used copy(nt)
Message:
rahrah
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Date: Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 10:49:45 (GMT)
From: jondon
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Thanks to All (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 00:42:32 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: fitzroy@liverpool.ac.uk
To: Everyone
Subject: Off topic but relevant to forum... (nt?)
Message:
Just a suggestion. When replying to a no text post with 'nt' in the title, may I suggest you change the title - at least to get rid of the 'nt'. It makes things one hell of a lot easier to work out which posts might be worth the effort of clicking on (and even then...)

Ta.

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Date: Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 11:09:03 (GMT)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: This just in--Maharaji is really a woman (nt)
Message:
haha yes I know what you mean dear Nigel
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Date: Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 14:24:53 (GMT)
From: Coach
Email: None
To: Helen
Subject: Internet Gender Changers (ott)
Message:
H,

I thought everyone knew.

I read a statistic recently that said that around 40% of internet users change their gender when communicating with others on the web. How they worked that one out I don't.

Coach aka 'Fifi'.

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Date: Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 16:08:59 (GMT)
From: Nigella
Email: fitzroy@liverpool.ac.uk
To: Coach
Subject: psst, you wanna know my little secret? (nt)
Message:
If I had been a girl they were going to call me 'Wendy'..!
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Date: Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 22:56:39 (GMT)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Nigella
Subject: Fiffi? Nigella?
Message:
Hmmm, I'll be Horatio
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Date: Thurs, Jun 08, 2000 at 02:55:00 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: Helen
Subject: I'll be Gina (nt)
Message:
What are you looking here for?
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Date: Thurs, Jun 08, 2000 at 03:06:54 (GMT)
From: Monmot
Email: None
To: G
Subject: Well, Then I'll be Manmot (nt)
Message:
just a gigolo...
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Date: Thurs, Jun 08, 2000 at 20:34:16 (GMT)
From: Horatio
Email: None
To: Monmot
Subject: Manmot/Gina (nt)
Message:
peek and see ya never know,
it's like a geisha's kimono
sometimes nice little posts are underneath these ones marked (nt).
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Date: Fri, Jun 09, 2000 at 00:04:50 (GMT)
From: Fifi
Email: None
To: Horatio
Subject: Arise Lord Admiral Horatio Gina Manmot (not)
Message:
not=a cross between nt & ot
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Date: Fri, Jun 09, 2000 at 01:40:23 (GMT)
From: Tami Rainbow
Email: None
To: Fifi
Subject: Arise Lord Admiral Horatio Gina Manmot (not)
Message:
Fifi is the name of my haredresser!! Fifi don't hang out hear these peepul are ignirant, they are in their MINDS!
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Date: Tues, Jun 06, 2000 at 22:31:43 (GMT)
From: Gilead
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Marianne, Are You Back In Bay Area? Peoples Temple
Message:
06.06.00
Marianne,
Remember me, the guy that was talking about the Peoples Temple, of the Disciples of Christ? You stated you represented Larry Layton? Were you still going to get in touch via email? I lost your email address.
Gilead
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Date: Tues, Jun 06, 2000 at 16:26:05 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Just talked to Maharaji's lawyers again
Message:
....only got a second

His lawyer just returned my call from a few weeks ago. She told me the alleged copywrite infringments in issue were images and adulterated images of the fat, greasy Hamster as explained in the letter to Yahoo. I told her she ahd to be kidding, that if she knew anything at all abotu the history of this cult leader and, in particular, his disaffected former followers, we would love nothing more than a lawsuit so we could drag his tubby ass into court. She didn't know what to say.

I told her that I know what it's like to get a file from some superior and not really be anamoured with the client. Still, she should know something about her client and I proceeded to tell her. She didn't know what to say.

I closed by telling her that, once again, a lawsuit would be just great. We'd earned the right to use those pictures for the rest of our lives and he can go fuck himself if he thinks otherwise. I didn't actually say that but that was the gist. I urged her to tell her client that. Tell him that he's been hiding from us for years now and, yes, we'd absolutely love a day in court. She said she would.

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Date: Thurs, Jun 08, 2000 at 04:43:18 (GMT)
From: Runamok
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Just talked to Maharaji's lawyers again
Message:
Glad to see you putting your powers of discourse to good use (to people who deserve your powers of persuasion pitted against them).
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Date: Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 15:42:05 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Just talked to Maharaji's lawyers again
Message:
Hi Jim -
So this lawyer did not mention the 'copyrighted religious documents' which were supposedly part of the reason that Roger's site got taken off the air? Or are the photos supposed to be 'religious documents'? Just curious - if you talk to her again, that might be a good question to ask.

Anyway, interesting conversation - thanks.
Katie

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Date: Thurs, Jun 08, 2000 at 20:48:04 (GMT)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: Just talked to Maharaji's lawyers again
Message:
'copyrighted religious documents' somehow sounds like 'Joseph Smith's stone tablets' or whatever that Mormon leader supposedly receoved from on high.
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Date: Tues, Jun 06, 2000 at 21:00:21 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Did she kept a straight face while she said it?
Message:
What kind of egomaniac copyrights pictures of HIMSELF? What kind of inflated, god-complex does he have? As for the 'adulterated images,' I haven't seen all of them, but one I saw in particular wasn't adulterated all that much.

I mean, really. How much, in order to acheive satiral effect, would you have to 'adulterate' a picture of a short, fat, greasy Indian guy, with really bad pectoral muscle tone, dancing around half-naked on a stage, while wearing a Krishna crown, pearls and flowers? In that case, the actual picture if more damning than anything you could do to it.

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Date: Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 19:26:07 (GMT)
From: VP
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Did she kept a straight face while she said it?
Message:
Joe, I think that they are talking about some of the photos I've seen here (could have been linked from other sites, I can't remember now) with Maharaji shooting a bird, etc. I've only seen one or two that I can remember anyway. Like you said, the REAL photos are far funnier than anything that was altered (the Carmen Miranda hat for example is hilarious!) I find it hard to believe that ALL of his photos have copyrights.

If anyone here has ever seen Saturday Night Live--when they do the news broadcasts, they often alter photos of public figures. They cut and paste heads, etc. I don't hear about THOSE public figures suing anyone for that. Nor do they try to take SNL off of the air. Most of the time, they probably ignore it or get a chuckle out of it. It's free publicity for them.

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Date: Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 01:15:20 (GMT)
From: (Sir) David
Email: sirdavid12@hotmail.com
To: Joe
Subject: So you haven't seen this then?
Message:
You've not seen the wooden premie in masturbatory frenzy with the big boobed Lord of the Universe, without his bra.

Click here to see the she-male god in all his glory.

This can also be accessed from Not Maharaji's mixed bag via The blatant copyright infringement site link.

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Date: Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 19:34:23 (GMT)
From: VP
Email: None
To: (Sir) David
Subject: So you haven't seen this then?
Message:
Well, well, very creative...but a definite departure from the cut and paste jobs on SNL.

I would probably object to someone doing something similar to my photo, unless it enhanced my appearance, of course.

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Date: Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 02:53:39 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: (Sir) David
Subject: That's the one that isn't all that different....nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 01:30:46 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: drek@oz.net
To: (Sir) David
Subject: I LOVE IT, I LOVE IT!
Message:
Sir Dave,

You've taken it to a higher plain. Maharaji the She-Male-God! It's perfect. Absolutely, perfect. A single spark that moves and changes everything it touches.

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Date: Tues, Jun 06, 2000 at 23:31:55 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: fitzroy@liverpool.ac.uk
To: Joe
Subject: Pssst, senor, adult-rated adulterated pictures....
Message:
Adulterated? The ones where he's committing adulterey might interest the tabloids and damage his credibility. As for the rest...?

Jeez... I weep for his loss of earnings and his fretting over how to pay next month's rent.

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Date: Tues, Jun 06, 2000 at 18:12:14 (GMT)
From: Daneane
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Just talked to Maharaji's lawyers again
Message:
Jim -

So what is it like to 'get a file from a superior' - I mean, do you think she is just through the motions as handed to her, or do you think she may be in support of M personally?

Did she seem to care one way or another about his background as you decscribed it, or whether or not it did go to court?

Will he be billed for the time she spend talking to you? If so, did you talk to her a long time then hopefully?

If, as a lawyer, you were in her situation, how would you respond to such objections?

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Date: Tues, Jun 06, 2000 at 17:11:58 (GMT)
From: raina
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: 'She didn't know what to say'
Message:
Where do you get your mind reading powers from Jim? How do you develop your ability to read your own thoughts into other people's silence? ('She didn't know WHAT to say!')

Are you sure she wasn't thinking to herself something like: 'Damn this guy is HOT! So passionate! I wonder if I'll get to meet him in person?'

or maybe she was thinking:
'Scary looser. Possibly dangerous' (while signaling her colleague to 'trace the call' sort of thing.)

I'm sure you made her sweat Jim....cuzz you're SO intimidating. (plus! you know when you can and CAN'T use 4 letter words!)

good joB!

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Date: Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 00:52:25 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: raina
Subject: Shut up, Raina (nt)
Message:
gg
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Date: Tues, Jun 06, 2000 at 19:57:17 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: drek@oz.net
To: raina
Subject: Freudian slip, Raina or whomever you are or were
Message:
Hmmm, a coincidence perhaps, but we've seen only a few Trolls spell loser as looser as you did in your fictional reply to Jim ala:

'Scary looser...

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Date: Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 00:23:20 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: fitzroy@liverpool.ac.uk
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: Freudian slip, Raina or whomever you are or were
Message:
I too have posted about this strangely consistent premie spelling error several times, Rog. (Always that one word and no other is what makes it significant.) I don't know how sophisticated Sir Dave's archive search engine is nowadays, but I reckon a search for 'looser' would bring out all sorts the woodwork.

( this not about you raina. probly coincdents , )

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Date: Tues, Jun 06, 2000 at 23:21:23 (GMT)
From: raina
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: the more of a LOSER...the more o's..loooooooozer
Message:
troll?
looser?
slip?

whomever i 'was'?

does it sadden you that there's a simple an obvious solution to your minor legal problem....which is probably crafted anyway? sorry i can't be dumber and more impassioned by the attempts to 'organize' a war here?

are we arguing about something?

better think of somethink quick?

i am SO embarrassed that you caught me spelling loser wrong?

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Date: Tues, Jun 06, 2000 at 17:15:57 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: raina
Subject: Could've been 'She didn't say what she knew'?(nt)
Message:
Could've been 'She didn't say what she knew'?(nt)
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Date: Tues, Jun 06, 2000 at 17:24:54 (GMT)
From: raina
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: Coulda been.Coulda been.Coulda been. Coulda been.
Message:
a contenda.....not in this situation.....
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Date: Tues, Jun 06, 2000 at 17:06:36 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: drek@oz.net
To: Jim
Subject: Say what?
Message:
were images and adulterated images of the fat, greasy Hamster

My understanding of the law is that adulterated images used in parody, satire, or, get ready for this - criticism constitutes fair use. All the images of Maharaji and graphics from his website that I used were altered and used in parody. Absolutely! Only a dumb fat stupid guru with a ninth grade education would not see that.

So, should we sue them now or what?

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Date: Tues, Jun 06, 2000 at 17:19:06 (GMT)
From: raina
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: you would sue your ISP
Message:
your ISP would be the one you'd sue no? (if you can....and can afford to)
In a law suit you have to be able to prove DETAILED financial loss to even consider going to court? i think that's why M wouldn't ever be able to take you to court either.....how could he prove financial loss...esp. because he's non-profit etc.........

all you have to do is get another ISP to put your site back up.........?

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Date: Tues, Jun 06, 2000 at 17:43:22 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: raina
Subject: Veeeerrrrry interesting point there Raina
Message:
You say:

'M wouldn't ever be able to take you to court either.....how could he prove financial loss...esp. because he's non-profit'?

I see your point.

: )

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Date: Tues, Jun 06, 2000 at 17:59:21 (GMT)
From: raina
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: 'knowledge' comes in handy....always
Message:
i've been speaking with Intellectual Property lawyers etc.............
even when trademarks are concerned....as it stands now it seems no one can ever really sue anyone....unless they want to risk loosing tens of thousands of dollars (just to begin with actually) in lawyers fees etc.............

check out 'etoy.com' vs 'etoys.com' (toysoldier.com ithonk may be the URL for the story???)

so all the chatter about lawsuits here seems laughable............

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Date: Tues, Jun 06, 2000 at 23:44:29 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: fitzroy@liverpool.ac.uk
To: raina
Subject: Not so funny when ISP's take it seriously
Message:
so all the chatter about lawsuits here seems laughable............

So how about Prem's lawyers using the mere threat of legal action to frighten ISP's into shutting down anti-cult sites?

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Date: Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 00:20:33 (GMT)
From: raina
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: My point is that the energy is misdirected...
Message:
the ISP's are more your enemy in this case (roger's?) for backing down perhaps (i haven't seen Roger's site, so i'm not sure...maybe i'll go check it out later)

All i'm saying is: law suits cost a fortune...are almsot impossible for anyone to prove anything etc....and internet issues are still new.........

No ISP is going to be 'frightened into shutting down 'ANTI-CULT SITES' as you're all trying to suggest....that's ABSURD....!! (Roger's ISP DOES however have to worry about 'defamation' libel, slander' etc...that's TOTALLY different!! so what exactly is the ulterior motive in changing these details around? to INCITE people to 'rally' around a CREATED issue? as if there's such an enormous PRO-CULT movement in society!

Maharaji's lawyer's are attempting to protect M's property.......there's a HUGE difference in the way people here seem to be trying to inspire a war against 'injustice' when in fact Maharji has every right to attempt protecting his reputation...as if that's so difficult to understand....it's so totally normal...something anyone here would do for themselves...

so by complicating the issue with all the exxaggerated drama, the incitefulness seems deceptive, pointless and hypocritical.....

all the 'passion' everyone is expressing won't take the place of the cold gray world of legalities etc....that's all i'm saying (trying 2 say).

(i know no one here like's to be challenged...but they should)

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Date: Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 02:36:21 (GMT)
From: (Sir) David
Email: None
To: raina
Subject: What about the cold, grey world of toilets?
Message:
Or perhaps green. I think Maharaji should employ a better web designer. His present one seems obsessed with toilets.

Anyway, Click here to go to the toilet and remember to wash your hands afterwards.

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Date: Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 05:49:10 (GMT)
From: Harry
Email: None
To: (Sir) David
Subject: What about the cold, grey world of toilets?
Message:
Hey Dave, I was had a meditation vision once and it looked just like that bowl, except I thought of it as a tunnel going towards some light. When I got to the end of the tunnel, there was a wizard extending a fist to me. I remember he had a beautiful ring on one of his fingers and he wanted me to see what was in his hand.
H
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Date: Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 05:33:17 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: None
To: (Sir) David
Subject: Shagadelic Love that toilet bowl full o'that love
Message:
Sir Dave,

Ah, you've once again come to my emotional rescue. I love that dangerous feeling I get when I reach into Maharaji's toilet bowl of love and with a click I'm transported to that special place where I'll be with him or is it her - my She-Male God!

Oh, baby!*
Yeah!
Rock me, Maharaji.
Sock it to me, Maharaji.
Stick it to me, Maharaji.
Send your boys in their fancy suits after me.
Whip me, beat me with a stick, Maharaji.
For you are my She-Male God, Maharaji.

*This is done in parody, not hate. I loved my Maharaji and now look what he does to me.

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Date: Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 00:29:53 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: fitzroy@liverpool.ac.uk
To: raina
Subject: So absurd it already happened.
Message:
re. No ISP is going to be 'frightened into shutting down 'ANTI-CULT SITES' as you're all trying to suggest....that's ABSURD....!!
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Date: Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 00:40:05 (GMT)
From: raina
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: talk about GROUP MINDSET!!!!
Message:
once AGAIN.....they didn't shut it down TO MAKE A POLITICAL STAEMENT!!!!! (as you NEED to believe in order to FEEL a COMMONALITY here!!!!!)

they SHUT IT DOWN (already!-yes i heard you!) because they CAN (possibly) be sued for defamation and libel!!!! The ISP has A LOT to loose! Unlike a hermit x-premie with a $300 computer, a 6 pack in the fridge, and $35 in the bank!)

so much for your speed reading course!!!!

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Date: Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 01:24:33 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: drek@oz.net
To: raina
Subject: raina or Prem, YOU ARE SO FULL OF SHITE
Message:
Prem,

Libel, slander, defamation?

No, not hardly never no way!

Why not?

Public Person! Prem, you is a Public Person.

To help explain this I've copied the following from the web:

WHAT IS 'DEFAMATION'?

Defamation, sometimes called 'defamation of character', is spoken or written words that falsely and negatively reflect on a living person's reputation.

If a person or the news media says or writes something about you that is understood to lower your reputation, or that keeps people from associating with you, defamation has occurred. Slander and libel are two forms of defamation.

WHAT IS 'SLANDER'?

Slander is a spoken defamation.

CAN LIBEL SUITS BE BROUGHT BY A PUBLIC FIGURE?

These suits are a bit dicier for the public figure.

A public figure may be an elected or appointed (a politician) or someone who has stepped into a public controversy (e.g., movie stars and TV stars, star athletes). Public figures have a 'harder road to toll' than the average person since they must prove that the party defaming them knew the statements were false, made them with actual malice, or was negligent in saying or writing them. Proving these elements makes the chance of a successful lawsuit slim.

WHAT ABOUT INSULTS AND EPITHETS? ARE THEY DEFAMATORY?

Generally, no. Usually they are seen as outbursts of emotion, with no real substance, except to show intense dislike.

DON'T I HAVE A RIGHT TO EXPRESS MY OPINION?

Yes, so long as your statement of opinion is just an opinion, not containing specific facts that can be proved untrue.

So, Prem and/or raina or whomever you are, as usual, way off base. For Maharaji to claim defamation or from what I've heard the letter of complaint to be 'pejorative images' he would have a most difficult case to prove.

My opinion is that Maharaji is a fat, greasy, lying piece of scum.

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Date: Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 02:52:19 (GMT)
From: raina
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: raina or Prem, YOU ARE SO FULL OF SHITE
Message:
roger-
as i said, i haven't really taken a look at your site....so i don't know what images you may have been using etc....or what sort of things you've written.................i was only going on the 2nd hand info i've heard....

my interest is in the law.....and how this may affect me and my own personal situation. as i also said, i'm engaging here in the hopes of learning something.....

perhaps i'm 'full of shit'?
perhaps we ALL are?
but i'm not trying to be...

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Date: Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 05:25:27 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: drek@oz.net
To: raina
Subject: Ok, Rob (nt)
Message:
yeah, yeah
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Date: Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 01:08:53 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: fitzroy@liverpool.ac.uk
To: raina
Subject: The question of libel has never arisen...
Message:
..and who mentioned 'political staements' [sic] or 'feeling commonality' (apart from you)?

Stop shouting for a moment, raina. Why has the only issue raised in lawyers' letters been one of adulterating ancient photographs and not one of libel or defamation?

(A: because telling the truth is never libel.)

As I see it, ISP's will shut down (non-paying) sites on receipt of any lawyer's letter that theatens legal action. Even alleged breech of copyright: for this we have evidence provided by recent actions. The rest of what you claim ISP's fear most is your speculation.

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Date: Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 03:00:51 (GMT)
From: raina
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: not trying to play legal expert
Message:
yes...exactly! 'Speculation'!
that's all.......i mean to be asking here more than telling!

and as you say, perhaps 'defamation' isn't the route the M lawyers plan to take....(being a public figure etc?) but 'adulteration of photographs' may be their choice POA for sound reason?

if we were all sitting in a circle in person etc.........do you think someone would have shot me by now?

p.s (FYI) Instead of 'shouting' you'd be more accurate to picture me eating a banana split and half watching TV.

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Date: Tues, Jun 06, 2000 at 19:43:51 (GMT)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: raina
Subject: Not so laugable to me
Message:
The lawsuit talk is not so laughable to me, raina.

I found Jim's conversation with the associate to be quite enlightening. And no, I'm not going to tell you why, because premies monitor this site and report on the posts to M and others.

Marianne

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Date: Tues, Jun 06, 2000 at 18:31:04 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: raina
Subject: anyone got a few 10s of thous to spare?
Message:
Just checked that story on http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,33330,00.html, which led me to http://www.eff.org - the Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) - anyone posted them about the Maha's attempts to censor the net?

As the Universal Declarations of Human Rights, Article 19 says:
'Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes the freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any means regardless of frontiers.'

and this one might interest you, Raina:

Defining Digital Identity
Empower people to maintain their
privacy and control their digital identity.

And now for something completely different:

Anyone want a car bumper-sticker that says:
'I wasn't born a bitch. Men like you made me this way'

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Date: Tues, Jun 06, 2000 at 23:32:24 (GMT)
From: raina
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: ure welcome?
Message:
what am i missing here?
i could have sworn i was the one making the same point you're responding to?
(only difference is, you're calling me a bitch?)
fascinating.....
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Date: Tues, Jun 06, 2000 at 23:46:17 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: raina
Subject: hey raina
Message:
I appreciate your info and your perspective.
don't let it get you down.
the hard work and strong msg. JM and Dave sent out on their sites were appreciated by me as well.

and I also think you made some valid points today.

sometimes I *do not* understand the responses in these threads myself and I have been here for a few years.

just another looser myself I guess :)

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Date: Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 00:34:22 (GMT)
From: raina
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: hey! wanna take a walk over to roger's site?
Message:
oh my god! duh! i forgot it's not there right?
since i haven't seen his site-i really can't comment
(i think i did look at it briefly when i first found this site? it did seem more mean than clever from what (little) i remember about it)

I'm not trying to pretend i have a clue about legal shit...
but i am interested....only because i have something going
on myself......(don't ask!)....as usual I'm looking to learn something, and instead having dumb arguments with angry people! (did you read about the scientists breaking the speed of light barrier!....BTW don't JIM and AJW always seem joined at the hip?)

i'm only here now, because it's raining outside! i've been trying to ride a bike regularly this time of day-thinking that more blood circulation (excercise) could make all the difference for me....so far it's not happening!

so here i am?
defending myself against.......accusations of being a bad speller with a pitiful attitude problem....


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Date: Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 02:20:39 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: raina
Subject: never really looked at that site
Message:
Tried a few times. I have a lot of opinions when it comes to web design, number one being the info should be simply laid out and easy to find. First page should fit on one page. just my ideas.

I understand about legal battles. I've been battling my own 2 years now. Just got some papers in the mail last night that caused me to go into murderous fantasies.
Exercise DOES help. I am a shut-in right now. Too too hot, only cools down to mid to high 70's in the very coolest part of the night / early wee hour mornings. And I hate indoor gyms.
Always pictured Roger and Jim more joined together at some body part or another, not AJW really.

Rain? god how nice that must be. I know you missed your bike ride and all but sitll, rain is so rare here. I did read that post here about the scientist. or it might have been the metallic ripple thing.

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Date: Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 02:45:39 (GMT)
From: raina
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: 2 read or not 2 read............
Message:
i just notice roger calling me 'full of shit' up there somewhere, and Sir David making toilet jokes or something......

why will i really bother to read it?

granted, i may have been unclear....i don't mind admitting that (esp. about forgetting one CAN'T go to roger's site anymore etc.....) but....why is it they need to attack.....? how do they know i'm not just recovered from Downs Syndrome? seriously?...................

i don't mind having my inconsistencies cleared up, pointed out etc.....but not when it's so unbearably malicious and worse, POINTLESS.....

hell is being criticized by middle-aged sweaty old fat men on-line.............

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Date: Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 03:37:39 (GMT)
From: Harry
Email: None
To: raina
Subject: 2 read or not 2 read............
Message:
Hey Raina, you seem to have a thing about middle aged men. I guess that means you're either very young or very old. I realised this week that I'm middle aged when I went shopping for some warm riding socks. The eat cake, mastarbate, enjoy life philosophy sounds good, but you're gunna get old before you time and have cold feet.
Ps, being in your forties is much better fun than anything that came before.
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Date: Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 03:47:23 (GMT)
From: raina
Email: None
To: Harry
Subject: 2 read or not 2 read............
Message:
harry.....tell me more about yourself....
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Date: Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 03:59:21 (GMT)
From: Harry
Email: None
To: raina
Subject: 2 read or not 2 read............
Message:
Ok, but only if you tell me a bit about yourself. I'm an Aussie and live in the foothills of the Great Dividing Range, and have a passion for riding mountain bikes and a newly discovered passion for road bikes. I love the forest and the solitude and peace it offers, and I love the inspiration that flows from connecting to the wild places. I love sitting with friends drinking good coffee and pondering the imponderable, but most of all, I love a good laugh.
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Date: Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 22:19:41 (GMT)
From: Harry
Email: None
To: Raina
Subject: Harryji Inc.
Message:
Ok, have it your way and be all mysterious. I'm gettin' into the Guru business and thought you may be interested. I'm Guru Harry, the Guru of No Idea. One of the Brothers suggested there may be a place for you in the organization. How's Head of Security sound?
Remember, though me you can touch god.
Harryji
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Date: Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 22:46:41 (GMT)
From: raina
Email: None
To: Harry
Subject: dialogue vs. soliloquer
Message:
here's a little unasked for advice.....in the form of a sincere question.

when you post this message to me? how do you know that i wasn't in a car wreck today? or perhaps died? or my computer got stolen?

in other words...what makes you prefer to have a conversation with yourself, than to simply keep an open mind? and REALLY get to know someone?

as soon as someone starts answering their own questions (when originally meant for me), and deciding for themselves what i MUST be doing......i loose all interest in bothering......

i would think everyone felt that way....

don't worry Harry, it's not like i've invested a whole lot in our relationship....i'm only asking because i have YET to meet a human being who doesn't do it (to some degree, more or less).

now instead of arguing with me on this point? maybe you could be the FIRST ever to admit I'm right?

come on? surprise me?

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Date: Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 23:26:13 (GMT)
From: Humble Harry
Email: None
To: raina
Subject: dialogue vs. soliloquer
Message:
OK, your right and I admit it. Now where do we go from here?
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Date: Thurs, Jun 08, 2000 at 01:09:09 (GMT)
From: raina
Email: None
To: Humble Harry
Subject: infinity..................................... (NT)
Message:
jk
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Date: Thurs, Jun 08, 2000 at 09:28:46 (GMT)
From: Harry
Email: None
To: raina
Subject: Cool, I've never been there........nt
Message:
cool
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Date: Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 21:26:22 (GMT)
From: Mistress Grammar
Email: None
To: Harry
Subject: And you also love...
Message:
THE MISTRESS! Have you been behaving yourself, Harry?

We can no longer meet on Anything Goes as the master has had his expensive lawyers shut it down. Pity. He can't stand a good joke, can he?

Mistress Grammar

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Date: Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 21:48:18 (GMT)
From: Harry
Email: None
To: Mistress Grammar
Subject: And you also love...
Message:
Hey Mistress, I've missed you. Are you still in Scotland? Anything Goes is still up and running, and I feel a fit of mad gramer comin' on.
Cya
H
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Date: Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 23:25:53 (GMT)
From: Mistress Grammar
Email: None
To: Harry
Subject: And you also love...
Message:
I was not in Scotland, you bad boy! Any further discussions about these topics will be conducted elsewhere.

Mistress Grammar

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Date: Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 03:56:49 (GMT)
From: Rob
Email: None
To: raina
Subject: 2 read or not 2 read............
Message:
raina

pop over to Anything Goes if you are into horny middle aged men, thats where we all get our rocks off

http://www.paradise-web.com/plus_le/plus.mirage?who=forumlite

I'm sure you wont be missed here

Rob just trying to be helpful

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Date: Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 03:14:29 (GMT)
From: (Sir) David
Email: None
To: raina
Subject: Not directed at you Raina and here's a paradox
Message:
But at Haharaji. I've no beef with anyone here but Maharaji; well, he used to dish it out and now he's gonna have to take some stick. That's one of the laws of the Universe.

But here's a paradox. If light travels 20 times faster than the speed of light, doesn't that just mean it's travelling at the speed of light?

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Date: Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 03:19:34 (GMT)
From: raina
Email: None
To: (Sir) David
Subject: re: the speed of light.....
Message:
i thought exactly the same thing!
we ARE a brain trust afterall!
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Date: Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 02:53:59 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: raina
Subject: don't know really
Message:
but I think Dave was joking, nice. i really do. M has this thing, not sure what he thought it supposed to be, a graphic on his site. I mentioned a while back it looked like a toilet.

Dave put a (mind you altered parody type) similar pic on his site - did I mention as a parody :)
I think Dave appreciates your
style raina. Can't speak for him but he *did* tell you that, earlier this week.
but I just love the guy so... well, i never did say I was the most objective person here.

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Date: Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 03:05:55 (GMT)
From: raina
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: don't know really
Message:
ya you're right...i just read them and they were fine really....roger even included some interesting information in his post!

i expected the worse! go figure!

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Date: Tues, Jun 06, 2000 at 17:00:14 (GMT)
From: gErRy
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: All I can say is...
Message:
WHOEVER CREATED THOSE ADULTERATED IMAGES AND CAUSED THIS BIG MESS NEEDS HIS ASS KICKED !!!

te he he

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Date: Tues, Jun 06, 2000 at 17:08:10 (GMT)
From: Slit Their Throats WPC
Email: None
To: gErRy
Subject: The World Peace Corp will scour the earth for
Message:
the lowlife that created and distributed those images.
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Date: Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 01:28:36 (GMT)
From: (Sir) David
Email: sirdavid12@hotmail.com
To: Slit Their Throats WPC
Subject: The World Peace Corp will scour the earth for
Message:
They're not very good at scouring then. I mean, Elan Vital know who I am, my address and telephone number etc and all they've done is ask me to listen to some nice devotional music.

By the way, where is that 'slit his throat' premie these days. Long gone and forgotten, I expect.

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Date: Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 01:36:22 (GMT)
From: Monmot
Email: None
To: (Sir) David
Subject: Mr. Slit Yer Throat Lives in D.C. and...
Message:
is still a premie.
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Date: Tues, Jun 06, 2000 at 13:29:57 (GMT)
From: Town Crier
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Steve Hassan On CBS/Boston Radio Tonight
Message:
Steve Hassan will be on the David Brudnoy show on the CBS radio
network tonight, at 9-10pm eastern time. (Boston station WBZ-AM 1030)

Maybe Howie Carr should take a listen.

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Date: Tues, Jun 06, 2000 at 13:57:57 (GMT)
From: jondon
Email: None
To: Town Crier
Subject: Steve Hassan On CBS/Boston Radio Tonight
Message:
I have emailed howiecarr@mindspring.com regarding Steve Hassan on CBS/Boston Radio tonight. I'll call his assistant later today.
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Date: Tues, Jun 06, 2000 at 14:02:50 (GMT)
From: Town Crier
Email: None
To: jondon
Subject: Steve Hassan On CBS/Boston Radio Tonight
Message:
Here's Steve's website in case Howie's assitant wants to explore futher:

http://www.freedomofmind.com/

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Date: Tues, Jun 06, 2000 at 10:00:31 (GMT)
From: Brian
Email: brian@ex-premie.org
To: Everyone
Subject: New Journeys Entry
Message:
I put Adrian (Abid) Tanovic's Journey online this morning. Even on my first cup of coffee, it was an enjoyable read.

Thanks, Adrian.

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Date: Tues, Jun 06, 2000 at 17:11:57 (GMT)
From: Way
Email: None
To: Brian
Subject: Thanks to Adrian (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Tues, Jun 06, 2000 at 17:18:59 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Adrian
Subject: I enjoyed- U write well. When's part 2 coming?(nt)
Message:
I enjoyed- U write well. When's part 2 coming?(nt)
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Date: Tues, Jun 06, 2000 at 18:41:47 (GMT)
From: Daneane
Email: None
To: Adrian
Subject: Me too - liked 'bait and switch'(nt)
Message:
rarararararar
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Date: Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 11:15:08 (GMT)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Daneane
Subject: Me too - liked 'bait and switch'(nt)
Message:
Yup, I liked that too, also what Adrian said about getting involved in the premie community and forgettign about what motivated one to pursue knowledge in the fist place. Great journey story.
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Date: Tues, Jun 06, 2000 at 06:51:11 (GMT)
From: Loaf
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: What is a Premie...its a 70s/80s term
Message:
Since many people getting Knowledge these days have never heard the term Premie - and I'm not joking - might there not be an additional tag we can use:

ex-Knowledge
ex-maharaji
ex-elanvital

Not forgetting the old advertisers maxim :A picture is worth a thousand words.

I'm sure that the ex-premie tag is fine for the most part - but some people going into the programme simply will have no idea what it means.It won't connect.

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Date: Tues, Jun 06, 2000 at 23:19:01 (GMT)
From: lotus eater
Email: None
To: Loaf
Subject: What is a Premie...its a 70s/80s term
Message:
Dear Loaf, I like the term ex-premie. Do you remember the time when he decided that we weren't worthy to be called premies?, and then occasionally, he would use the term with such a cute smile, and then at other times he would go on about not having one real devotee, and how if he did, nothing would matter, even if you had no legs he would take you with him across the world!!! I figure I've earnt the title. Lotus Eater
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Date: Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 05:12:30 (GMT)
From: I only mean to say that
Email: None
To: lotus eater
Subject: new folks won't think it applies to them (nt)
Message:
nt.
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Date: Tues, Jun 06, 2000 at 17:45:52 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Loaf
Subject: ah ... but sparking curiosity is a great draw (nt)
Message:
ah ... but sparking curiosity is a great draw (nt)
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