Elaine -:- How many posters does it take to change a ... -:- Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 14:43:25 (GMT)

__ Katie -:- I thought it was funny! -:- Tues, Jun 27, 2000 at 15:07:08 (GMT)

__ __ JohnT -:- Funny... -:- Wed, Jun 28, 2000 at 00:12:45 (GMT)

__ __ __ Selene -:- yeah I read that joke about 4 years ago. -:- Wed, Jun 28, 2000 at 03:15:06 (GMT)

__ Elaine -:- PS - above joke going around on e-mail - not mine. -:- Mon, Jun 26, 2000 at 16:15:37 (GMT)

__ __ SB -:- PS - above joke going around on e-mail - not mine. -:- Wed, Jun 28, 2000 at 03:08:35 (GMT)

__ __ SB -:- PS - above joke going around on e-mail - not mine. -:- Tues, Jun 27, 2000 at 02:40:24 (GMT)

__ JohnT -:- Limerick for Elaine ... -:- Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 16:00:46 (GMT)

__ __ Keith -:- Limerick for JohnT... -:- Mon, Jun 26, 2000 at 01:17:19 (GMT)

__ __ __ Jim -:- That sucked, Keith -- like REALLY bad (nt) -:- Mon, Jun 26, 2000 at 04:27:28 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ cq -:- Not as bad as this, Jim: -:- Mon, Jun 26, 2000 at 18:36:56 (GMT)

__ __ Elaine -:- You didn't think that was funny? -:- Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 18:33:30 (GMT)

__ __ __ JohnT -:- You didn't think that was funny? -:- Mon, Jun 26, 2000 at 18:44:10 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Elaine -:- You didn't think that was funny? -:- Mon, Jun 26, 2000 at 20:01:38 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ JohnT -:- Faux-naif -:- Wed, Jun 28, 2000 at 12:15:59 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- You're half a person, Elaine. -:- Mon, Jun 26, 2000 at 20:18:29 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Elaine -:- How fascinating of a person you are... -:- Tues, Jun 27, 2000 at 00:16:31 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- Thanks, you're a drop dead bore... -:- Tues, Jun 27, 2000 at 00:55:48 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Elaine -:- Thanks, you're a drop dead bore... -:- Tues, Jun 27, 2000 at 02:36:44 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ You must answer that -:- Nobody else can (nt) -:- Tues, Jun 27, 2000 at 03:13:24 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Elaine -:- gerry,it's you I'd like to hear from...NT -:- Tues, Jun 27, 2000 at 17:15:58 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- gerry,it's you I'd like to hear from...NT -:- Tues, Jun 27, 2000 at 18:48:14 (GMT)

__ __ __ SB -:- Lying now? You wrote nt -:- Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 23:18:04 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Stonor -:- Lying now? You wrote nt -:- Mon, Jun 26, 2000 at 00:30:07 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ SB -:- Lying now? You wrote nt -:- Mon, Jun 26, 2000 at 02:11:29 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Elaine -:- Lying now? You wrote -:- Mon, Jun 26, 2000 at 01:42:04 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ SB -:- Lying now? You wrote -:- Mon, Jun 26, 2000 at 02:15:28 (GMT)

__ __ SB -:- I forgot JT. Elaine ... -:- Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 18:18:19 (GMT)

__ __ SB -:- Limerick for Elaine ... -:- Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 18:12:48 (GMT)

gwh -:- Awake??? -:- Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 07:01:29 (GMT)

__ Way -:- My question -:- Mon, Jun 26, 2000 at 19:58:13 (GMT)

__ Happy -:- Awake??? -:- Mon, Jun 26, 2000 at 16:50:09 (GMT)

__ AJW -:- My simple questions -:- Mon, Jun 26, 2000 at 09:07:34 (GMT)

__ __ gwh -:- My simple questions -:- Mon, Jun 26, 2000 at 17:37:17 (GMT)

__ __ __ cq -:- My simple question -:- Mon, Jun 26, 2000 at 20:28:00 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ gwh -:- My simple question -:- Wed, Jun 28, 2000 at 02:40:20 (GMT)

__ Rob -:- Please use the tradesmans's entrance -:- Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 18:45:29 (GMT)

__ Anarchist -:- Awake??? -:- Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 17:16:52 (GMT)

__ gErRy -:- Who are You ??? -:- Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 15:13:43 (GMT)

__ __ gwh -:- Who are You ??? -:- Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 19:37:17 (GMT)

__ __ __ Rob -:- So in other words -:- Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 20:42:07 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ gwh -:- So in other words -:- Mon, Jun 26, 2000 at 17:44:06 (GMT)

__ __ __ Coach -:- You do understand... -:- Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 19:52:04 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ gwh -:- You do understand... -:- Mon, Jun 26, 2000 at 17:48:09 (GMT)

__ Stonor -:- Yes, I am, gwh - are you? -:- Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 11:55:29 (GMT)

__ __ gwh -:- Yes, I am, gwh - are you? -:- Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 19:10:45 (GMT)

__ __ __ Rob -:- That's not how it works around here Bubba -:- Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 20:51:45 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ gwh -:- That's not how it works around here Bubba -:- Mon, Jun 26, 2000 at 17:59:15 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Rob -:- Ok, why are you here? -:- Tues, Jun 27, 2000 at 04:29:47 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ gwh -:- Ok, why are you here? -:- Wed, Jun 28, 2000 at 03:03:54 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Rob -:- Oh PULLEASE don't give me satsang! Sheesh -:- Wed, Jun 28, 2000 at 04:03:07 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Rob -:- And why don't you answer Stonor's questions? -:- Tues, Jun 27, 2000 at 05:10:13 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Gregg -:- Here's the unansweable question, Bubba! -:- Mon, Jun 26, 2000 at 20:51:49 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ gwh -:- Here's the unansweable question, Bubba! -:- Wed, Jun 28, 2000 at 03:07:49 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Tami Rainbow -:- Here's the unansweable question, Bubba! -:- Tues, Jun 27, 2000 at 00:35:38 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ cq -:- Where'd he go? back to Norbert the Nark? (nt) -:- Tues, Jun 27, 2000 at 17:49:15 (GMT)

__ Robyn -:- Awake??? -:- Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 10:37:51 (GMT)

Boris -:- Where did you get M's personal phone number ? (nt) -:- Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 05:52:42 (GMT)

__ SB -:- From the clasified pages: Fake guru looking for -:- Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 22:56:37 (GMT)

Roger eDrek -:- Wonder who THIS is? Anybody? -:- Sat, Jun 24, 2000 at 19:02:25 (GMT)

__ Rob -:- Uh oh Roger, I think you're done for -:- Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 01:14:35 (GMT)

__ __ Roger eDrek -:- Rob, can you do me a favor? -:- Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 01:25:38 (GMT)

__ __ __ Rob -:- Hang on, I'll ask..... -:- Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 01:45:21 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Roger eDrek -:- Somehow I don't think this is going to be Safe Sex -:- Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 02:05:29 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Rob -:- Frogs? Noooo, far worse than that -:- Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 02:08:03 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Roger eDrek -:- That was a ***Best***, but... -:- Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 02:25:53 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Rob -:- Hey, buck up soldier -:- Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 02:31:25 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Roger eDrek -:- No, no can do! I've got every legal right. -:- Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 02:40:32 (GMT)

__ Ben Lurking -:- Wonder who THIS is? Anybody? -:- Sat, Jun 24, 2000 at 23:19:41 (GMT)

__ __ Roger eDrek -:- I'm dead meat now! (But what do I have to loose?) -:- Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 01:42:50 (GMT)

__ __ __ Ben Lurking -:- I'm dead meat now! (But what do I have to loose?) -:- Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 05:02:50 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Rob -:- Geek speak -:- Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 18:05:55 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Ben Lurking -:- Geek speak -:- Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 21:52:20 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Joey -:- Geek speak -:- Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 18:25:46 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Joey -:- Joey you are screwed up -:- Mon, Jun 26, 2000 at 02:40:47 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Joey -:- Note to FA re Zelda's post. -:- Mon, Jun 26, 2000 at 12:31:06 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Zelda -:- To Joey - sorry bout the mistake = mine. -:- Mon, Jun 26, 2000 at 17:03:05 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Joey -:- Ya, but you're STILL screwing up Zelda... -:- Mon, Jun 26, 2000 at 17:32:11 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Zelda -:- Ya, but you're STILL screwing up Zelda... -:- Mon, Jun 26, 2000 at 19:20:45 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Joey -:- Ya, but you're STILL screwing up Zelda... -:- Mon, Jun 26, 2000 at 19:49:25 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Roger eDrek -:- JOEY, SHUT THE FUCK UP! -:- Mon, Jun 26, 2000 at 22:15:49 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Joey -:- HEY, FUCKHEAD !! :::))) -:- Tues, Jun 27, 2000 at 00:22:54 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Roger eDrek -:- Fuck you, sickboy! (Zelda just ignore this guy) -:- Tues, Jun 27, 2000 at 17:23:45 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Joey -:- the community conman shows his true colors. -:- Tues, Jun 27, 2000 at 18:28:14 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Zelda -:- Rog. OK - sounds like too much D+D -:- Wed, Jun 28, 2000 at 03:26:36 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Good work seeing through Zelda, Joey -:- Tues, Jun 27, 2000 at 02:08:11 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Joey -:- Good work seeing through Zelda, Joey -:- Tues, Jun 27, 2000 at 03:57:01 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Zelda -:- Hey you guys -:- Tues, Jun 27, 2000 at 02:57:55 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Joey -:- Hey Zelda... -:- Tues, Jun 27, 2000 at 04:19:12 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- I made you laugh don't forget -:- Tues, Jun 27, 2000 at 03:30:14 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Zelda -:- I made you laugh don't forget -:- Tues, Jun 27, 2000 at 05:50:23 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Selene's therapist -:- men on forum -:- Tues, Jun 27, 2000 at 18:19:05 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Joey -:- Fuck off and die, Zelda -:- Mon, Jun 26, 2000 at 12:12:12 (GMT)

__ __ __ Selene -:- it was erotica thank you -:- Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 01:54:10 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Zelda -:- Selene thanks for the first out-loud laugh today N -:- Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 05:25:48 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- you are welcome -:- Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 08:29:14 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Zelda -:- you are welcome -:- Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 12:01:09 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- yes it augments them I suppose -:- Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 18:34:31 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ SB -:- it was erotica thank you -:- Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 03:08:05 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- I remember one similar story -:- Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 07:51:16 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- oh and ps that was just an example -:- Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 08:58:02 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Roger eDrek -:- Come on, Selene! This IS about you now. -:- Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 01:59:45 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- Just gotta love you - so clever and all -:- Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 07:59:04 (GMT)

__ Selene -:- well it ain't me, I succumbed to Bill -:- Sat, Jun 24, 2000 at 20:33:28 (GMT)

__ Zelda -:- Wonder who THIS is? Anybody? -:- Sat, Jun 24, 2000 at 20:15:16 (GMT)

__ __ Ben Lurking -:- Wonder who THIS is? Anybody? -:- Sat, Jun 24, 2000 at 23:26:57 (GMT)

__ __ __ Selene -:- exactly my point -:- Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 08:33:40 (GMT)

__ __ __ Roger eDrek -:- The link to the RFC was mine -:- Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 01:19:46 (GMT)

__ __ __ Zelda -:- To Ben : Oh. Thanks NT -:- Sat, Jun 24, 2000 at 23:42:47 (GMT)

Rob -:- This is your brain on Knowledge -:- Sat, Jun 24, 2000 at 06:20:13 (GMT)

__ LSD -:- This is your brain on Knowledge NT -:- Tues, Jun 27, 2000 at 02:33:17 (GMT)

__ Boris -:- Pinknic -:- Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 05:00:35 (GMT)

__ Jerry -:- What brain? -:- Sat, Jun 24, 2000 at 14:53:57 (GMT)

__ hamzen -:- Like an adolescent taking acid for the first time -:- Sat, Jun 24, 2000 at 11:47:23 (GMT)

__ __ JohnT -:- Like an adolescent taking acid for the first time -:- Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 12:36:33 (GMT)

__ Loaf -:- Do you mean 'brayner' ? My search is endless! (nt) -:- Sat, Jun 24, 2000 at 10:35:32 (GMT)

__ __ (Sir) David -:- Do you mean 'brayner' ? My search is endless! (nt) -:- Sat, Jun 24, 2000 at 11:36:39 (GMT)

__ __ __ Daneane -:- brayner(ot) -:- Sat, Jun 24, 2000 at 14:04:53 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ cq -:- The modern day revival of trepanning(ot) -:- Sat, Jun 24, 2000 at 16:18:00 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Rob -:- I need trepanning like I need a hole in the head! -:- Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 02:35:30 (GMT)

Jean-Michel -:- Yoram and Raja in Paris next sunday! -:- Fri, Jun 23, 2000 at 20:56:48 (GMT)

__ Joey -:- Feed them well, JM !! :::)) -:- Sat, Jun 24, 2000 at 18:13:11 (GMT)

__ __ Jean-Michel -:- Feed them well, JM !! :::)) -:- Sat, Jun 24, 2000 at 23:28:33 (GMT)

__ __ __ SB -:- LOL JM!!! -:- Mon, Jun 26, 2000 at 02:18:26 (GMT)

Daneane -:- Maharaji vs The Greens -:- Fri, Jun 23, 2000 at 17:16:38 (GMT)

__ SB -:- Maharaji WANTS The Greens nt LOL -:- Fri, Jun 23, 2000 at 23:32:40 (GMT)

__ Nigel -:- Maharaji vs The Greens -:- Fri, Jun 23, 2000 at 20:58:29 (GMT)

__ Selene -:- what's a green party? -:- Fri, Jun 23, 2000 at 17:21:09 (GMT)

__ __ Harry -:- what's a green party? -:- Fri, Jun 23, 2000 at 23:52:22 (GMT)

__ __ ham -:- It's the political wing of the eco movement -:- Fri, Jun 23, 2000 at 21:50:20 (GMT)

__ __ Daneane -:- what's a green party?(OT) -:- Fri, Jun 23, 2000 at 17:25:53 (GMT)

__ __ __ SB -:- what's a green party?(OT) -:- Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 22:26:36 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Daneane -:- what's a green party?(OT) -:- Mon, Jun 26, 2000 at 00:05:24 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ SB -:- what's a green party?(OT) -:- Mon, Jun 26, 2000 at 02:22:18 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- I might just vote after all -:- Mon, Jun 26, 2000 at 06:01:02 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ SB -:- I might just vote after all -:- Mon, Jun 26, 2000 at 12:20:01 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Daneane -:- Nader wants you -:- Mon, Jun 26, 2000 at 06:33:43 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Daneane -:- what's a green party?(OT) -:- Mon, Jun 26, 2000 at 02:42:59 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ SB -:- hahahahahahaha... -:- Mon, Jun 26, 2000 at 03:44:05 (GMT)

Selene -:- and it hasn't ended yet! landmark forum's legacy -:- Fri, Jun 23, 2000 at 14:43:27 (GMT)

__ Joey -:- and it hasn't ended yet! landmark forum's legacy -:- Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 18:14:29 (GMT)

__ __ Deputy Dog -:- landmark forum's legacy - 70% -:- Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 18:48:32 (GMT)

__ __ __ Elaine -:- landmark forum's legacy - 70% -:- Mon, Jun 26, 2000 at 14:00:26 (GMT)

__ __ __ Joey -:- landmark forum's legacy - 70% -:- Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 21:12:19 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Joey -:- Yoohoo....DD -:- Mon, Jun 26, 2000 at 17:02:55 (GMT)

__ __ __ Selene -:- you don't even get a newletter? -:- Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 18:55:44 (GMT)

__ __ Selene -:- that was a good article -:- Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 18:40:11 (GMT)

__ __ __ Scott T. -:- I may have met this guy -:- Mon, Jun 26, 2000 at 13:59:27 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Joey -:- Maybe, then again, maybe not... -:- Mon, Jun 26, 2000 at 17:22:23 (GMT)

__ __ __ Joey -:- and that was a GREAT move ! -:- Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 21:20:23 (GMT)

__ Powerman -:- and it hasn't ended yet! landmark forum's legacy -:- Sat, Jun 24, 2000 at 17:28:30 (GMT)

__ __ Selene -:- I never could do that right. It's a guy thing. -:- Sat, Jun 24, 2000 at 20:38:55 (GMT)

__ Katie -:- and it hasn't ended yet! landmark forum's legacy -:- Fri, Jun 23, 2000 at 14:45:58 (GMT)

__ __ Selene -:- thanks! I got ill reading the dumb thing -:- Fri, Jun 23, 2000 at 14:48:58 (GMT)

__ __ __ Katie -:- thanks! I got ill reading the dumb thing -:- Fri, Jun 23, 2000 at 14:50:47 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ VP -:- thanks! I got ill reading the dumb thing -:- Fri, Jun 23, 2000 at 15:04:25 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Katie -:- I think I'd quit... -:- Fri, Jun 23, 2000 at 16:33:59 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- yeah that would be worse all right -:- Fri, Jun 23, 2000 at 15:10:36 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Scott T. -:- yeah that would be worse all right -:- Mon, Jun 26, 2000 at 14:11:41 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- sql -:- Mon, Jun 26, 2000 at 20:15:10 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Scott T. -:- sql -:- Tues, Jun 27, 2000 at 15:17:28 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- the jargon IS silly -:- Tues, Jun 27, 2000 at 17:27:22 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ VP -:- Walking on coals-ot -:- Fri, Jun 23, 2000 at 15:18:20 (GMT)

Date: Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 14:43:25 (GMT) From: Elaine Email: None To: Everyone Subject: How many posters does it take to change a ... Message:

lightbulb? 1 to successfully change the bulb and post that it has been changed. 7 to caution about the dangers of changing bulbs. 27 to point out spelling errors in posts about changing bulbs. 53 to flame the spell checkers 25 to write to the FA complaining about the inappropriateness to this forum. 27 to post this forum is not about lightbulbs and to pls take their discussion to an appropriate place. 57 to demand the light bulb posts be deleted. 5 to say they are offended by posters who use a different brand of bulb. 7 to post they are leaving because they can't get into this bulb controversy. 12 to say this is what this forum was meant for, leave the discussion here. 75 to post links about lightbulb changing. 15 to post that the URLs were posted incorrectly and to post correct ones. 8 to post that their posts disappeared. 9 to say that it isn't nice to say mean things about certain brands - CEO's have feelings ,too. 23 to post urgent messages begging everyone to calm down and be respectful. 14 to post they are new here and would like background on the bulb issue. 7 to post that the discussion is none of their business bec they are too late to add anything relevant. 17 to post they are not interested in the discussion,but welcome to the forum! 18 to defend our posting, bec we all use lightbulbs. 12 to share their experience of changing bulbs and how it could have been done more efficiently. 19 to post that those enjoying the discussion should ignore confrontational posters.

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Date: Tues, Jun 27, 2000 at 15:07:08 (GMT) From: Katie Email: None To: Elaine Subject: I thought it was funny! Message:

Maybe you have to be a former FA to appreciate it? (I'm guessing the original e-mail applied more to newsgroups than forums, but I think it's funny that a joke about forums in general applies so much to this one. Maybe we aren't all crazy after all.)

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Date: Wed, Jun 28, 2000 at 00:12:45 (GMT) From: JohnT Email: None To: Katie Subject: Funny... Message:

...indeed. But this one has played on my mind. There is a kind of dishonesty, or lack of awareness involved, it seems to me... ...like this: Our friend gets a joke in email about some stuff in general. The medium is the message - it could be about any mail list or newgroup or web forum etc. She makes it pointedly about this one - by editing and by posting without explanation. There was no context to the e-mail (covering note; subject ?). Plenty of context here. I thought she was having a dig. So what? It's no sin here to provoke (at least with thought and awareness) so that's OK. No problem. I call her silly and make a joke, in like spirit. And prompty admit I'm kidding. No big deal. Even so faux-naif! I stand accused! But we are both guests. I think her faith is bad and I say so... G and I talked about this. Randroid stuff. Respect.

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Date: Wed, Jun 28, 2000 at 03:15:06 (GMT) From: Selene Email: None To: JohnT Subject: yeah I read that joke about 4 years ago. Message:

regarding usenet posters. I hear you.

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Date: Mon, Jun 26, 2000 at 16:15:37 (GMT) From: Elaine Email: None To: All Subject: PS - above joke going around on e-mail - not mine. Message:

It's not mine -just changed it to fit here. Thought it was funny other 'message boards' have the exact same dynamics. There's more to it - you should be getting it from friends soon. Had no idea it would upset anyone.

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Date: Wed, Jun 28, 2000 at 03:08:35 (GMT) From: SB Email: None To: Elaine Subject: PS - above joke going around on e-mail - not mine. Message:

You are such a great soul Elaine... I think too that you are a great person. Let me remind you how all started, you saying some of us were mean people. Talkin about yourself again? ROFL Life is fun!! :))))))))) SB

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Date: Tues, Jun 27, 2000 at 02:40:24 (GMT) From: SB Email: None To: Elaine Subject: PS - above joke going around on e-mail - not mine. Message:

You upset some people, if not all, for bringing it. What you brought in itself doesn't mean anyhting, 'naive' sister... ;) An advice. Stop believing that people here have something personal against you. I personally think that what I don't like is your reasoning, your superiority complex and your insistance to throw stones a run away, avoiding the 'issues' discussed. SB, who a while a go was puzzled, trying to know what in the heck are you doing here and I think I know...Just checking.

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Date: Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 16:00:46 (GMT) From: JohnT Email: None To: Elaine Subject: Limerick for Elaine ... Message:

There was a silly premie Elaine Whose postings were mostly a pain She posted each day With nothing to say 'till she couldn't come here again.

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Date: Mon, Jun 26, 2000 at 01:17:19 (GMT) From: Keith Email: None To: JohnT Subject: Limerick for JohnT... Message:

JohnT called others names Claimed he knew better That he was profound Without a silly fetter No useless chatter Not true thinks I JohnT is quite bound Judgemental to a tee Ti's not truth he has found Rather a little pond of mindy weeds Not the oceanic expanse From where are born greater seeds.

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Date: Mon, Jun 26, 2000 at 04:27:28 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: Keith Subject: That sucked, Keith -- like REALLY bad (nt) Message:

hhh

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Date: Mon, Jun 26, 2000 at 18:36:56 (GMT) From: cq Email: None To: Jim Subject: Not as bad as this, Jim: Message:

Maharaji and Jagdeo are on a flight with a group of premies. There are only two parachutes on board when suddenly the plane develops engine trouble, loses altitude really fast and is in imminent danger of crashing. Jagdeo, frightened out of his wits, exclaims, 'what do we do?' Maharaji replies, 'Well, it's simple, you take one parachute, and I take the other, we strap them on, and then we bail out.' Jagdeo then says, 'But what about the premies?' Maharaji: 'Fuck 'em.' Jagdeo: 'Really? Do you think there's time?'

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Date: Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 18:33:30 (GMT) From: Elaine Email: None To: JohnT Subject: You didn't think that was funny? Message:

You're kidding. And it wasn't mine,btw. It was one of those things a friend got thru e-mail.

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Date: Mon, Jun 26, 2000 at 18:44:10 (GMT) From: JohnT Email: None To: Elaine Subject: You didn't think that was funny? Message:

I'm kidding. You sharpened it - to goad, I presume. Got goaded back. All good fun.

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Date: Mon, Jun 26, 2000 at 20:01:38 (GMT) From: Elaine Email: None To: JohnT Subject: You didn't think that was funny? Message:

I know that everyone is different and that's what makes the world go 'round and I don't want to judge and haven't walked a mile in your shoes and all....but,it's hard for me to think someone could read into that post that I wanted to 'goad' anyone. Dictionary - to irritate,prick. Then to write a hurtful limerick and then say it was all in good fun. (I think you mean 'sharpened it' as cleaned it up to fit our forum - rather then our 'message board',etc.?) I thought it was cute and that we could laugh and relate to all the characteristics of all 'message boards', aka,forums. I really am that guileless...that I thought all here would find it cute. I will definitely never do anything like this again in innocence here.

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Date: Wed, Jun 28, 2000 at 12:15:59 (GMT) From: JohnT Email: None To: Elaine Subject: Faux-naif Message:

There was a good premie, Elaine, Who really was terribly vain; Faux-naif to a fault She was given a jolt When they said 'Your bad faith's a pain'!

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Date: Mon, Jun 26, 2000 at 20:18:29 (GMT) From: gerry Email: None To: Elaine Subject: You're half a person, Elaine. Message:

That's Elaine: All guileless innocent cuteness who just can't imagine how she could possibly be interpreted as 'offensive.' She would never judge another, saint that she is, by god, she's holding hands with the great ones in the Hall of shambala !!! No, she would never goad anyone. Why, that would mean she's a prick and well, look at her after all those years of meditation and therapy, she's so healthy, so mature and ... SO FUCKING SUPERIOR !!!

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Date: Tues, Jun 27, 2000 at 00:16:31 (GMT) From: Elaine Email: None To: gerry Subject: How fascinating of a person you are... Message:

You could really be a case study if I was a professional therapist. Was someone superior to you when growing up -did they shove it in your face? Was there a bully in your grade school? As you can see I'm not a professional - but to watch and read you is fascinating. Your reactions are very new to me? All I can think is, it's the writing medium. In person I'm not so sure you wouldn't be actually funny and charming. Elaine

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Date: Tues, Jun 27, 2000 at 00:55:48 (GMT) From: gerry Email: None To: Elaine Subject: Thanks, you're a drop dead bore... Message:

And yes, in person I am very funny and charming. But I just can't suffer idiots like you, unfortunately.

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Date: Tues, Jun 27, 2000 at 02:36:44 (GMT) From: Elaine Email: None To: gerry Subject: Thanks, you're a drop dead bore... Message:

Uh-huh,and why am I an idiot?

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Date: Tues, Jun 27, 2000 at 03:13:24 (GMT) From: You must answer that Email: None To: Elaine Subject: Nobody else can (nt) Message:

nt

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Date: Tues, Jun 27, 2000 at 17:15:58 (GMT) From: Elaine Email: None To: gerry Subject: gerry,it's you I'd like to hear from...NT Message:

NT

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Date: Tues, Jun 27, 2000 at 18:48:14 (GMT) From: gerry Email: None To: Elaine Subject: gerry,it's you I'd like to hear from...NT Message:

about meditation and awakening. The two have nothing to do with each other. All your efforting is for nil. That's why I said that Michael Clegg's book would be over your head. You would not understand it and you would resist it with the last ounce of your vitality. But that's your gig, so it's fine with me. You are trapped in your beliefs. Stuck in this dead end of spiritual seeking, trying trying trying. I am saying give it up. It's the last hurdle. Your posts just reek with this forced spirituality. It's hard to stomach and it's very unbecoming. Very typical of people in spiritual 'groups.' And yes it is a form of feeling superior. It's not really you. It's not really anyone. I'm not angry with *you.* It's the facade I can't tolerate.

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Date: Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 23:18:04 (GMT) From: SB Email: None To: Elaine Subject: Lying now? You wrote nt Message:

nt

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Date: Mon, Jun 26, 2000 at 00:30:07 (GMT) From: Stonor Email: None To: SB Subject: Lying now? You wrote nt Message:

Sabes, SB . . . ? I really laughed out loud when I read that that was a generic comment on forums! T'ebrasso! Stonor Falto dictionario! (y grammatico!) Riamos!

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Date: Mon, Jun 26, 2000 at 02:11:29 (GMT) From: SB Email: None To: Stonor Subject: Lying now? You wrote nt Message:

Thanks for the effort...ROFL not for it, but about your comment about forums. I laugh a lot, too bad that I look to some very angry. Freedom is fun! Yo tambien te mando un abrazo, grande!! Love, SB

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Date: Mon, Jun 26, 2000 at 01:42:04 (GMT) From: Elaine Email: None To: Anyone Subject: Lying now? You wrote Message:

You two are so funny. A friend got that Dr.Laura funny e-mail maybe two weeks before Stonor posted it. So everyone will be getting this e-mail list soon,too. The only difference in the e-mail is it says 'message board' instead of forum and 'board administrators' instead of FA. Then little things like it takes '115 posters saying....' and I changed to a smaller number. It was too wordy to retype it all - so I shortened it. I thought it was so cute.

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Date: Mon, Jun 26, 2000 at 02:15:28 (GMT) From: SB Email: None To: Elaine Subject: Lying now? You wrote Message:

If that is the case, I appologize. I found it, without the explanation somewhat...offending. O got it. Hope you are well, SB

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Date: Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 18:18:19 (GMT) From: SB Email: None To: JohnT Subject: I forgot JT. Elaine ... Message:

is begining to show her true colors...I like that. At least she is beginig to be honest?

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Date: Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 18:12:48 (GMT) From: SB Email: None To: JohnT Subject: Limerick for Elaine ... Message:

Hi J, I knew her too!! Such a coincidence...couldn't read the whole crap... Elaine took a brake for few hours to elaborate this? Just Joking. SB, glad to be on the other side,

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Date: Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 07:01:29 (GMT) From: gwh Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Awake??? Message:

All of my adult life has been spent trying to understand what this wonderful, magical, indescribable thing is we call life. After forty seven years of self inquiry the surprising, incredibly simple and profoundly healing answer arrived. The key elements in bringing it about are feeling into and through your suffering at the heart and see/feeling into and through the content of your consciousness in the mind. You must follow the thread to the origin. I don't recommend any teachers other than one that resides within your own nature. My awakening came about in isolation.....no teacher or guru commitment. The main text that pointed to the truth was 'The Mirror - Advice on the Presence of Awareness' by Norbu. Other text that you may find helpful are 'The Supreme Source - The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen' Norbu, 'Dzogchen - The Self-Perfected State' Norbu and 'Tsongkhapa's Six Yogas of Naropa' by Mullin. Waking up really isn't that complicated. In see/feeling into the mind you will dissolve the thought structure that is miss identified as self. As you do so energy is released and is thrown into the process. At some point you will reach 'critical mass' and the process will self regulating....no effort. The same process occurs in the heart. You must be tenacious.... it is catching the dragon's tail. You must be willing to face your own rot. You do the work and you do it alone. You give yourself permission to wake up. No charge... I don't need your money or your devotion. If you want to ask a question please keep it simple.

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Date: Mon, Jun 26, 2000 at 19:58:13 (GMT) From: Way Email: None To: gwh Subject: My question Message:

gwh, I do have a question. But it is not a question FOR you, but a question ABOUT you: Is this guy playing some sort of joke on us or does he actually believe in what he is saying??? I really do not know the answer to that question. On the other hand, I have (quite easily) made up my mind about whether or not you are 'an awakened one.' You are not. You are a guru-loving guru-wannabe. Only a guru would arrive here, declare himself to be awake, and ask for questions! Only a guru would avoid all reasonable questions while incomprehensively pontificating on the topic of 'the core wound and how to heal it.' Only a guru would say things like: 'the only teacher is the one that resides within your own nature,' 'keep it simple,' 'you must be tenacious,' 'face your own rot,' and the ever-popular 'there is no charge.' You, dwh, are actually quite a good guru already, the only problem is that gurus are among the sickest of all individual human beings. If they were really awakened to the Truth, they would know very well each of these simple Truths: All persons are developing on the path of love. They will learn for themselves by living their lives. They don't need to depend on any other person's perspective, understanding, or energy. They must develop their own. There is no need to point the way, the way will point itself.

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Date: Mon, Jun 26, 2000 at 16:50:09 (GMT) From: Happy Email: None To: gwh Subject: Awake??? Message:

-to me, you sound like being sound asleep.

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Date: Mon, Jun 26, 2000 at 09:07:34 (GMT) From: AJW Email: None To: gwh Subject: My simple questions Message:

A couple of simple questions. Are you a premie? Do you consider yourself to spiritually 'wiser' or 'more evolved' than most of your fellow human beings? (Naturally, if you are, it wouldn't be because of anything you as an individual would have done, more like 'grace' or something). Anth watch out the second one is a trick question.

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Date: Mon, Jun 26, 2000 at 17:37:17 (GMT) From: gwh Email: awake102@hotmail.com To: AJW Subject: My simple questions Message:

ex-premie Am I awake.... yes. There is only God....

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Date: Mon, Jun 26, 2000 at 20:28:00 (GMT) From: cq Email: None To: gwh Subject: My simple question Message:

'There is only God' you say? But why call the totality of everything by such a misused, misconstrued and mistrusted name?

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Date: Wed, Jun 28, 2000 at 02:40:20 (GMT) From: gwh Email: None To: cq Subject: My simple question Message:

What is doesn't change.. call it what you will.. any name, any language, any time. Maybe 'onlyness' is a name that doesn't trigger negativity. But then you really must ask yourself if the negativity is a burden of your own making ?

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Date: Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 18:45:29 (GMT) From: Rob Email: None To: gwh Subject: Please use the tradesmans's entrance Message:

gwh...why do you remind me of Mike Finch?...anyway, I'm sure you are very happy now you've found the answer and eager to serve your guru Norbu (yes I know what you said, but please...) and his Dogchain philosophy, but really, the polite thing to do here is for you to include a link to his website, in case anybody could be interested, then bugger off. Because I think you will find that preachers of any denomination get short shrift here, and with good reason. So now you've had your little say, told us what a wonderfully enlightened person you are, what's keeping you? Bye.

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Date: Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 17:16:52 (GMT) From: Anarchist Email: None To: gwh Subject: Awake??? Message:

You're floggin' a dead horse here mate with all that stuff.

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Date: Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 15:13:43 (GMT) From: gErRy Email: None To: gwh Subject: Who are You ??? Message:

Who Am I ??? Where Am I ??? What is Life ??? Who Brought the Beer??? ghw, did you post your e-mail address anywhere? I gotta question or two for you, but I don't pull my pants down in public. Well, yes I do. In fact I did it on saturday. At the hotsprings. Some german girls took our picture so look for us on the cover of Bundt magazine some time this fall. But seriously, what is this core wound thing you mentioned some time ago?

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Date: Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 19:37:17 (GMT) From: gwh Email: awake102@hotmail.com To: gErRy Subject: Who are You ??? Message:

The core wound is the original division between self and other located at the heart knot. Feeling into that knot without hesitation releases the bound energy of suffering into unbound energy of joy or bliss. That flame of joy is the awakening of the heart of compassion. That flame when passed along the frontal line to the crown dissolves the knots or blockage within the centers. Thanks for a sincere question.

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Date: Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 20:42:07 (GMT) From: Rob Email: None To: gwh Subject: So in other words Message:

You had a really bad case of indigestion, and your guru came along with a bottle of Pepto Bismol? Clear as day now. What was it you came here for again? Bye.

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Date: Mon, Jun 26, 2000 at 17:44:06 (GMT) From: gwh Email: None To: Rob Subject: So in other words Message:

Your indigestion is the pain that your cleverness draws life from..... Relax into that and cure yourself.

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Date: Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 19:52:04 (GMT) From: Coach Email: None To: gwh Subject: You do understand... Message:

,,,,you're quite, quite mad, don't you? What a load of utter bollocks. Coach

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Date: Mon, Jun 26, 2000 at 17:48:09 (GMT) From: gwh Email: None To: Coach Subject: You do understand... Message:

How do you determine that?

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Date: Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 11:55:29 (GMT) From: Stonor Email: None To: gwh Subject: Yes, I am, gwh - are you? Message:

Please gwh, At least have the integrity not to apparently deny that you wrote, in your second post 'Knowledge realized,' There are many sincere teachers.... Saniel Bonder, Andrew Cohen, Gangaji, Metta Zetty. There is an emergence of awakened westerners that have moved away from the Asian paradigm of 'Enlightenment'. They are worth checking out. Is this not recommendation or endorsement? Why are you now backtracking and changing your story with, 'I am only suggesting that self inquiry not be abandoned. I can't recommend or endorse anyone. My experience indicates that a personal relationship with a guru/teacher is not necessary.' And you still have not explained why you suggested these four 'westerners who have (not) moved away from an Asian paradigm of 'Enlightenment.' Now you write, I am only suggesting that self inquiry not be abandoned. I can't recommend or endorse anyone. I don't recommend any teachers other than one that resides within your own nature. My awakening came about in isolation.....no teacher or guru commitment. The main text that pointed to the truth was 'The Mirror - Advice on the Presence of Awareness' by Norbu. Other text that you may find helpful are 'The Supreme Source - The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen' Norbu, 'Dzogchen - The Self-Perfected State' Norbu and 'Tsongkhapa's Six Yogas of Naropa' by Mullin. Is Norbu not part of an 'Asian paradigm of Enlightenment?' Not, IMO, that there is necessarily anything intrinsically 'wrong' with that (you were the one that questioned the 'Asian paradigm'), but again, what exactly are you saying? And why do you seem to be running away from the discussion below and changing your story, somewhat implying that the people at this forum have not understood your post or are sleeping (not spiritually awakened?) - at least compared to you? Apologies if my question was too complicated for you, but did you not say that you had 'Realized Knowledge.' What exactly does that mean to you? Have you looked within yourself to see where these contradictions are coming from?

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Date: Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 19:10:45 (GMT) From: gwh Email: None To: Stonor Subject: Yes, I am, gwh - are you? Message:

I am not going to participate.... sorry :)

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Date: Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 20:51:45 (GMT) From: Rob Email: None To: gwh Subject: That's not how it works around here Bubba Message:

Stonor asked you a perfectly reasonable set of questions, and pleading the 'Fifth' is not acceptable. If you want your own soap box from which to preach whatever flavor spiritual mumbo-jumbo you are trying to force feed us, then I suggest you try www.paradise-web.com, www.hotboards.com or Geocities, or one of the dozens of other free platforms out there. Then pop back and drop a url in if you like and wait for people to show up. But don't hold your breath (unless that's one of your yogic party tricks, of course). Otherwise, be good enough to entertain the questions, even the ugly ones.

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Date: Mon, Jun 26, 2000 at 17:59:15 (GMT) From: gwh Email: None To: Rob Subject: That's not how it works around here Bubba Message:

You can ask any question... I can give any answer. I do not wish to participate in the endless cycle. Is there a question that cannot be answered.... a question that takes you beyond the known? Ask that question and I'll move on.

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Date: Tues, Jun 27, 2000 at 04:29:47 (GMT) From: Rob Email: None To: gwh Subject: Ok, why are you here? Message:

Apart from giving cute, vague non-answers, what do you see as your purpose in playing verbal tag? I don't buy the self-appointed zen-wannabe line either. Move on if you want to, if not, cut the crap and talk like a real human being for once.

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Date: Wed, Jun 28, 2000 at 03:03:54 (GMT) From: gwh Email: None To: Rob Subject: Ok, why are you here? Message:

I am here to get you to put away your questions.. The questions keep you continually moving away from your suffering, your rot. I am not trying to play a clever game. I am trying to get you to be still.... Move beyond the voice in your head. Don't give in to that impulse to lash out. My comments have been of a positive nature only... no anger.. no venom.. I've been nice. If you don't have any interest in awake??? don't answer. The thread will simply disappear.

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Date: Wed, Jun 28, 2000 at 04:03:07 (GMT) From: Rob Email: None To: gwh Subject: Oh PULLEASE don't give me satsang! Sheesh Message:

Ok I'll be nice too. Maybe you are just a misguided samaritan, maybe not. You could well be O or any other nutty premie for all I know. Like I say to all the telemarketers who get through to my office - thanks, but no thanks. The only 'rot' around here is that which you are plying us with. I tell you what, see if this does the trick.... GO AWAY Oh, did I give in to that impulse to lash out? Well you know what, it felt great!!!! Freak.

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Date: Tues, Jun 27, 2000 at 05:10:13 (GMT) From: Rob Email: None To: gwh Subject: And why don't you answer Stonor's questions? Message:

If you don't want to be caught up in the endless cycle of questions, then leave, dummy. This is a forum; conversations tend to go on a bit, questions get asked, comments made, opinions given......what part of that didn't you understand when you came here? Nobody's forcing you to stay and from what I've observed, nobody's too keen to listen to your drivel either.

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Date: Mon, Jun 26, 2000 at 20:51:49 (GMT) From: Gregg Email: None To: gwh Subject: Here's the unansweable question, Bubba! Message:

What is the diamond-breath Vajrasatva mirror upon which stands the endlessly compassionate Bodhisatva essence of our Buddha-nature Dakini-flavored Bodhi-tree full-blossomed Lotus upon the crown chakra in relation to the emptiness inherent in the self-sustaining dance of the ultimately illusory elements of whom Padmasasambha is the part-time caretaker in Tar's absence?

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Date: Wed, Jun 28, 2000 at 03:07:49 (GMT) From: gwh Email: None To: Gregg Subject: Here's the unansweable question, Bubba! Message:

You!

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Date: Tues, Jun 27, 2000 at 00:35:38 (GMT) From: Tami Rainbow Email: None To: Gregg Subject: Here's the unansweable question, Bubba! Message:

That wuz a reeelly long kweschun!!

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Date: Tues, Jun 27, 2000 at 17:49:15 (GMT) From: cq Email: None To: Tami Rainbow Subject: Where'd he go? back to Norbert the Nark? (nt) Message:

Where'd he go? back to Norbert the Nark? (nt)

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Date: Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 10:37:51 (GMT) From: Robyn Email: None To: gwh Subject: Awake??? Message:

Dear gwh, 'You must be tenacious.... it is catching the dragon's tail. You must be willing to face your own rot. You do the work and you do it alone. You give yourself permission to wake up.' Exactly!!! :) I think back and see that I have been coming towards this since I was a child, turns I took at different cross roads in my life but it took me many years to do what your mentioned in your post. It seems SO me now but looking back I see a time when I did run from facing my own shit so I know I have come quite far over the years. Always nice to read someone who has found a way similar to my own. Love, Robyn

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Date: Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 05:52:42 (GMT) From: Boris Email: None To: Jim Subject: Where did you get M's personal phone number ? (nt) Message:

Was it someone close to m who believes in open communication? Boris

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Date: Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 22:56:37 (GMT) From: SB Email: None To: Boris Subject: From the clasified pages: Fake guru looking for Message:

zombies with a will to support my lavish life style...just joking? Who are you? Have you posted before? SB

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Date: Sat, Jun 24, 2000 at 19:02:25 (GMT) From: Roger eDrek Email: drek@oz.net To: Everyone Subject: Wonder who THIS is? Anybody? Message:

I can see that THEY are still probing Roger's House of Maharaji Drek in their effort to determine whether the Fair Use presentation of pejorative images of the Maharaji and allegedly illegally used religious texts owned by the Maharaji are in violation of the Copyright laws of the U.S. I can see that they are poking about by the little droppings such as these: --------------------------------------------- Form: http://www.oz.net/~drek/OFFLINE Sent: Sat Jun 24 9:58:25 PDT 2000 From: (4.3.104.59) Using: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.0; Mac_PowerPC) --------------------------------------------- I can see that this person who is running MSIE 5.0 on a Mac_PowerPC has visited the following areas: Chronicles of the Red Nighty Corporate Shenanigans The ***Best*** of the Forum Hmmm, Mac_PowerPC, now that's interesting. That identifier is relatively rare. Coincidence I'm sure, but I recall one of our more ugly scenes involved just such a machine and if I recall correctly and to my limited knowledge that there has only been one Mac_PowerPC that I've ever spotted. And this is a very mysterious IP! Check this WhoIS out: --- performing WHOIS on '4.3.104.59', please wait... --- contacting server whois.arin.net --- smart whois on '4.3.104' BBN Planet (NET-SATNET) 150 Cambridge Park Dr. Cambridge, MA 02138 US Netname: SATNET Netblock: 4.0.0.0 - 4.255.255.255 Maintainer: BBNP Coordinator: Soulia, Cindy (CS15-ARIN) csoulia@genuity.net 800-632-7638 Domain System inverse mapping provided by: NIC.NEAR.NET 192.52.71.4 VIENNA1-DNS-AUTH1.BBNPLANET.COM 4.1.16.4 NIC3.BARRNET.NET 131.119.245.6 And the TraceRoute: --- looking up host 4.3.104.59 --- traceroute to 4.3.104.59 [4.3.104.59], 30 hops max, 18 byte packets 1. * 2. * 3. * 4. * 5. * 6. * 7. * 8. * 9. * 10. * 11. * 12 [ 4.3.104.59] dfiatx104-059.dsl.gtei.net 44 ms --- traceroute statistics for 4.3.104.59 12 packets transmitted, 1 received round-trip time (ms) min 44, avg 44, max 44 And a link to an RFC about SATNET: RFC831 Rob, what kind of Mac did you say The Boss had?

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Date: Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 01:14:35 (GMT) From: Rob Email: None To: Roger eDrek Subject: Uh oh Roger, I think you're done for Message:

Doing a search on BBN, via www.genuity.net, www.genuity.com, you get to: BBN Technologies, part of the GTE Group, war machine outfitters to the gentry. Take a look: http://www.gte.com/AboutGTE/gto/bbnt/offerings.html Sample wares: Decision Support Technologies Capability Assessment, Simulation and Evaluation System CASES is a campaign-level, decision-support tool that military planners can use to create, display, edit, and analyze operations plans under normal or crisis conditions. Distributed Collaborative Planning BBN Technologies developed a suite of specialized applications and systems that support rapid, crisis-action military planning. FIST/GRIP BBN Technologies has developed a set of tools: The Global Response Incident Planner (GRIP) and The Field Inventory Survey Tool (FIST). Both are key components of DARPA's Biological Warfare Defense Anchor Desk. TARGET BBN developed TARGET (Theater-level Analysis, Replanning and Graphical Extension Toolbox) to support the military planning process. Roger, this is WAY more serious than we all thought. Been nice knowing you mate, I'm off to meditate!

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Date: Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 01:25:38 (GMT) From: Roger eDrek Email: drek@oz.net To: Rob Subject: Rob, can you do me a favor? Message:

The Global Response Incident Planner (GRIP) and The Field Inventory Survey Tool (FIST). Both are key components of DARPA's Biological Warfare Defense Anchor Desk GRIP and FIST? Indeed, this could get way ugly! Rob, when are you gonna be going to Malibu next? Is it too late to cut a deal? I'm going to reveal a huge, huge secret now and it is that I am really a woman. A young tall buxom blonde who is willing to perform a very special private lap dance if we can all just get along.

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Date: Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 01:45:21 (GMT) From: Rob Email: None To: Roger eDrek Subject: Hang on, I'll ask..... Message:

...for I am sat at the Lotus Feet as we speak. Welllll, it's not going to be easy, Rog, you've gone pretty far you know. I mean, putting up those 'before' pictures stolen from the Breast Reduction Clinic just about sealed your fate. We are at DefCon 2 here in Malibu Mansions; the WPC has been mobilized, Patrick is unlocking the Holy Briefcase containing the Divine Vengeance launch codes and Monica is....what is Monica doing down there??? Still, maybe if you were to dress up as an Air Hostess, pop down here and satisfy the Divine Gender Checker (Sri Jagdeo Ji) that you really were a woman, we might be able to work something out.

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Date: Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 02:05:29 (GMT) From: Roger eDrek Email: drek@oz.net To: Rob Subject: Somehow I don't think this is going to be Safe Sex Message:

Divine Vengeance? We're just talking frogs falling out of the sky, aren't we? Interesting how today my bicycle chain fell off at the exact same spot the cops stopped me about two months ago for driving a rusty old car, which, by the way, is illegal in California. God, why, why, why did I ever leave my own private Idaho?

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Date: Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 02:08:03 (GMT) From: Rob Email: None To: Roger eDrek Subject: Frogs? Noooo, far worse than that Message:

Last I heard He was going to put you inside Joey's head for the rest of Eternity!

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Date: Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 02:25:53 (GMT) From: Roger eDrek Email: None To: Rob Subject: That was a ***Best***, but... Message:

House of Maharaji Drek is D.O.A. Being stuck inside of Joey's head reminds me of the ending of the film classic, The Devil in Miss Jones.

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Date: Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 02:31:25 (GMT) From: Rob Email: None To: Roger eDrek Subject: Hey, buck up soldier Message:

It's not over until it's over, OK? Joking aside, I can't see how they got a leg to stand on. I expect we'll see RHoMD back online in the near future. If not, why can't you just create another similar one and take out the objected material?

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Date: Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 02:40:32 (GMT) From: Roger eDrek Email: None To: Rob Subject: No, no can do! I've got every legal right. Message:

Thanks, Rob. I always appreciate a good laugh. Worse than a lying Lord of the Universe I detest big guys with big money bullying the little guys. Maybe I'm naive to still believe that in the U.S. there are rights granted to citizens and that big money can't take away those rights. I believe that because Maharaji is a Public Figure that he is going to have a difficult case to win. The material he objects to isn't really material perse. Instead, he objects to the public scrutiny and the public ridicule that my site and other sites have provided for him.

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Date: Sat, Jun 24, 2000 at 23:19:41 (GMT) From: Ben Lurking Email: None To: Roger eDrek Subject: Wonder who THIS is? Anybody? Message:

Can you telnet to the site? What does a last command reveal? nslookup?

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Date: Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 01:42:50 (GMT) From: Roger eDrek Email: drek@oz.net To: Ben Lurking Subject: I'm dead meat now! (But what do I have to loose?) Message:

(Misspelling intentional in subject.) Telnet don't work on it. nslookup gives this: 59.104.3.4.in-addr.arpa name = dfiatx104-059.dsl.gtei.net 104.3.4.in-addr.arpa nameserver = dnsauth3.sys.gtei.net 104.3.4.in-addr.arpa nameserver = dnsauth1.sys.gtei.net 104.3.4.in-addr.arpa nameserver = dnsauth2.sys.gtei.net Shit, these fuckers are gonna kill me! There's too much goddamn money at stake to let a wanker like me throw a spanner in the works. Damn, damn, damn. I didn't make that tit picture. I didn't write that fucking porno. I didn't write them ***Bests***. I stole all of it. Yeah, that's what happened. What did I ever do to deserve all this? Maybe this explains that weird guy on the train today. And I thought that he was just a drug addict talking funny to me. Come on, Maharaji, when I show up at the next program I'll double my contribution above and beyond the mandatory seating service fee.

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Date: Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 05:02:50 (GMT) From: Ben Lurking Email: None To: Roger eDrek Subject: I'm dead meat now! (But what do I have to loose?) Message:

Just because you use GTE for a long distance carrier dosen't mean you are GTE. nslookup is just a faster answer to traceroute and whois if you have an actual ip. Of course you could telnet to the smtp port of the ip and do some heho commands and see if you can get some email adresses for the probe'es.

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Date: Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 18:05:55 (GMT) From: Rob Email: None To: Ben Lurking Subject: Geek speak Message:

I think Roger knows all that. This is all just a skit! You wouldn't be cerberus, by any chance?

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Date: Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 21:52:20 (GMT) From: Ben Lurking Email: None To: Rob Subject: Geek speak Message:

I don't know what Roger knows, nor am I part of a skit - I am only Ben Lurking - have been for 1.6 years.

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Date: Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 18:25:46 (GMT) From: Joey Email: None To: Rob Subject: Geek speak Message:

Well of course it's just a 'skit'. That's about all you bullshit artists are capable of. Is that what life is all about to you two geeks ? A big fucking skit so you can play your bullshit games ?? Well I guess the forum has a new Mutt and Jeff team. How wonderful!! :::)))

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Date: Mon, Jun 26, 2000 at 02:40:47 (GMT) From: Joey Email: None To: Joey Subject: Joey you are screwed up Message:

You are blurring fact with fancy Ben has been around a while now- way before Rob and I think Rob was just clarifying something. Sounds like you are in lonely pain. Why should you care what the forum has on it? Just go meditate and leave the crazy exs to do their thing why dont you. You have your knowledge and your guru so you should be deeply content. Nothing here would make a differnce to his mission anyway so dont sweat it. Begone Zelda

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Date: Mon, Jun 26, 2000 at 12:31:06 (GMT) From: Joey Email: None To: FA Subject: Note to FA re Zelda's post. Message:

Zelda does not have the right to use my name in the 'From' field in the above post. That's playing stupid little games on her part. I believe on that basis and its garbage content, the post should be deleted. Please feel free to then delete this one along with my 'Fuck off and die , Zelda' response to her. I've already emailed you guys regarding this.

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Date: Mon, Jun 26, 2000 at 17:03:05 (GMT) From: Zelda Email: None To: Joey Subject: To Joey - sorry bout the mistake = mine. Message:

Didnt catch it until later and thanks for pointing it out but I will decline you invitation and your guru should have taught you better manners. For shame

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Date: Mon, Jun 26, 2000 at 17:32:11 (GMT) From: Joey Email: None To: Zelda Subject: Ya, but you're STILL screwing up Zelda... Message:

...and one has to wonder if it isn't a deliberate game on your part FYI, m doesn't teach manners. He specializes in fraud and deceptive little head games, something I see you've learned well.

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Date: Mon, Jun 26, 2000 at 19:20:45 (GMT) From: Zelda Email: None To: Joey Subject: Ya, but you're STILL screwing up Zelda... Message:

Joey I can play deceptive little head games when I choose but this isnt one of those times. I had you pegged as a premie for some reason and I dont want to go into why cause I have to get my hair done. If you are an ex then I dont have to explain my confusion and if you are a premie then perhaps you should meditate. screwed up for sure Zelda

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Date: Mon, Jun 26, 2000 at 19:49:25 (GMT) From: Joey Email: None To: Zelda Subject: Ya, but you're STILL screwing up Zelda... Message:

Joey I can play deceptive little head games when I choose but this isnt one of those times. ya, ya, ya...and bullshit makes the world go round, Zelda. I had you pegged as a premie for some reason and I dont want to go into why cause I have to get my hair done. Wrong Zelda. You don't want to get into it because you're a lying, twisted twit. If you are an ex then I dont have to explain my confusion... That's right Zelda, you don't have to explain anything. Your 'confusion' is nothing more than a staged 'fumbling, bumbling ' routine so you can spread real confusion on this forum. Such as the time you pegged the AFF as 'christian zealots,' and your effort to minimize the whole issue of compensation with your frivolous postings in a thread higher up on this page. ...and if you are a premie then perhaps you should meditate. I already explained that to you, Zelda, but quite honestly...why should anyone expect you to get anything right?? screwed up for sure Zelda Yup. That you are as well.

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Date: Mon, Jun 26, 2000 at 22:15:49 (GMT) From: Roger eDrek Email: None To: Joey Subject: JOEY, SHUT THE FUCK UP! Message:

Fuck you, Joey. When are you going to realize that you are sick in the head?

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Date: Tues, Jun 27, 2000 at 00:22:54 (GMT) From: Joey Email: None To: Roger eDrek Subject: HEY, FUCKHEAD !! :::))) Message:

If you want to go ballistic and give us another display of your psychopathic cult operative diatribes...go ahead, be my guest. (I'm collecting them for the media and concerned organizations :::)))

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Date: Tues, Jun 27, 2000 at 17:23:45 (GMT) From: Roger eDrek Email: drek@oz.net To: Joey Subject: Fuck you, sickboy! (Zelda just ignore this guy) Message:

Joey, You are so, so, so sick, aren't you? I'm a cult operative! Joey, you are insane. Zelda, just ignore Joey. He's sick. He's does this to everyone. He thinks that he's the only one seeing the light and the rest of us are spys or apologists for Maharaji. Most cults attract some pretty strange folks and I suspect that Joey was one of them. And now he's here with us.

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Date: Tues, Jun 27, 2000 at 18:28:14 (GMT) From: Joey Email: None To: Roger eDrek Subject: the community conman shows his true colors. Message:

Congratulations, psychoboy, on successfully mastering Rule #7 7. All critics of me are sinners and have gone the world's way. (It's a feature of all con men to preemptively accuse their marks of what they themselves are doing, as a way to confuse the opponent.)

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Date: Wed, Jun 28, 2000 at 03:26:36 (GMT) From: Zelda Email: None To: Roger Subject: Rog. OK - sounds like too much D+D Message:

or video games

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Date: Tues, Jun 27, 2000 at 02:08:11 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: Joey Subject: Good work seeing through Zelda, Joey Message:

Good work, fella. You're on a roll.

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Date: Tues, Jun 27, 2000 at 03:57:01 (GMT) From: Joey Email: None To: Jim Subject: Good work seeing through Zelda, Joey Message:

Actually Jim, I don't go for rolls all that much. I prefer bagels and croissants.

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Date: Tues, Jun 27, 2000 at 02:57:55 (GMT) From: Zelda Email: None To: Jim Joey and Roger5 Subject: Hey you guys Message:

a few Points 1 I made a mistake and mistook Joey for a premie and I could retrace where -but take it from me I did 2 I also yes also put the wrong name in the From slot and I guess it was and then Joey called the FA. Geesh people post here sloshed sometimes and nobody calls them names when they screw up.If I want to post in the throes of PMS and mess up you should then deal with it without getting nasty. 3 Joey you are very wrong. I actually have a bit of a complex because I always want to talk about compensation for EXS (got that right) and my thread up top was spawned from frustration and not meant to minimalize the problem. But really it is not taken seriusly in my opinion. 4 Jim that was mean of you to say. You know at least I take the class action thing seriously and also that you have had to put up with my lay understanding of these things. How dare you put yourself forward as an evaluator of me. 5 Roger thank you for telling Joey to do that. 6 Joey I take back my nice post to you uptop if you put this one here after I take great umbrage at my EXNess being questioned. I think Ill sue you for libel. . there was no good work here

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Date: Tues, Jun 27, 2000 at 04:19:12 (GMT) From: Joey Email: None To: Zelda Subject: Hey Zelda... Message:

...you're right. It's dirty work but somebody's gotta do it ::)) Now take two aspirins and call me in the morning.

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Date: Tues, Jun 27, 2000 at 03:30:14 (GMT) From: Selene Email: None To: Zelda Subject: I made you laugh don't forget Message:

yeah, weird day. and PMS does not help. But as I always say at least we are not all pretending to be 'blissed out' when we all know it's a lie.

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Date: Tues, Jun 27, 2000 at 05:50:23 (GMT) From: Zelda Email: None To: Selene Subject: I made you laugh don't forget Message:

Hi Selene It is pretty bad when Joey and Jim make me cry. 'IT' STILL makes me laugh Selene! Luv ya Zelda

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Date: Tues, Jun 27, 2000 at 18:19:05 (GMT) From: Selene's therapist Email: None To: Zelda Subject: men on forum Message:

Don't make me cry ever now. But Selene's method for building immunitites is not reccommended for everyone! It's just PMS most likely.

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Date: Mon, Jun 26, 2000 at 12:12:12 (GMT) From: Joey Email: None To: Zelda Subject: Fuck off and die, Zelda Message:

First of all there were no references to Ben Lurking in my post, you, pathetic, twisted shit disturber. I was referring to Roger and Rob. But I think you know that. Secondly, when you say, Sounds like you are in lonely pain. Why should you care what the forum has on it? , well Zelda...it sounds to me that you're a god forsaken head fuck artist. Nothing more. As far as your suggestion to meditate, I don't anymore and I've left the cult behind two years ago. But you know that as well zelda. You're just fucking around here. Now go fuck off and die!!

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Date: Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 01:54:10 (GMT) From: Selene Email: None To: Roger eDrek Subject: it was erotica thank you Message:

And NOT one of us begged you to put it on your site. In fact it pissed me off and you know it. stop making sense and stop talking to yourself.

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Date: Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 05:25:48 (GMT) From: Zelda Email: None To: Selene Subject: Selene thanks for the first out-loud laugh today N Message:

T

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Date: Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 08:29:14 (GMT) From: Selene Email: None To: Zelda Subject: you are welcome Message:

Just curious why it was so funny? it was to me but I didn't think it would get across. so I thought I'd ask. damned writers - always wanting feedback

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Date: Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 12:01:09 (GMT) From: Zelda Email: None To: Selene Subject: you are welcome Message:

I was flicking down the thread and got somebodys comment about porn and then 'it was erotica thank you' was just so funny in amongst the very serious technical computer stuff, and the guys with their humor. But I had also been marveling at the way the guys were discussing the crisis and where they were coming from 'spy vs spy' et all. Kind of like a lap dancer who wants it to be known she can spell so nobody will think she is chopped liver. {;-))))

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Date: Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 18:34:31 (GMT) From: Selene Email: None To: Zelda Subject: yes it augments them I suppose Message:

sorry to say :) thanks. THAT was funny!

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Date: Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 03:08:05 (GMT) From: SB Email: None To: Selene Subject: it was erotica thank you Message:

One time my then husband was very, very angry at me and draw mustaches on a picture of a dear friend of mine....

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Date: Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 07:51:16 (GMT) From: Selene Email: None To: SB Subject: I remember one similar story Message:

This 'sister' we knew was married to a datura/ bella donna addict. He came into the premie ashram and turned all the pics of M upside down in an episode of his.

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Date: Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 08:58:02 (GMT) From: Selene Email: None To: SB Subject: oh and ps that was just an example Message:

Of one of my many exposures to ovreactive male testosterone. I have others that would put the PREMIES in even worse light. ick. sorry I do not know why this means something in this thread. But it does.

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Date: Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 01:59:45 (GMT) From: Roger eDrek Email: drek@oz.net To: Selene Subject: Come on, Selene! This IS about you now. Message:

It was Selene, my Lord!

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Date: Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 07:59:04 (GMT) From: Selene Email: None To: Roger eDrek Subject: Just gotta love you - so clever and all Message:

Take your new friend with you when you do what you know my sentiments are for you. I suppose that would be easy - As the song goes, cause today I found my friends they are in my head. but you know I wish you only the **best**

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Date: Sat, Jun 24, 2000 at 20:33:28 (GMT) From: Selene Email: None To: Roger eDrek Subject: well it ain't me, I succumbed to Bill Message:

2 months ago. Bought a Presario running Windoze 98 on Ubuy. It's a fucking piece of shit and I still say the original Macs were far superior. Just thought I'd say that. the only other posters I have seen here with Macs are ........well I know you know. hurrmppphhh.

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Date: Sat, Jun 24, 2000 at 20:15:16 (GMT) From: Zelda Email: None To: Roger eDrek Subject: Wonder who THIS is? Anybody? Message:

I would love to know what all that COULD/does mean. The RFC831 link at the bottom of the page has names listed on the correspondence but they may be computer guys. Dare I ask what Satnet is.

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Date: Sat, Jun 24, 2000 at 23:26:57 (GMT) From: Ben Lurking Email: None To: Zelda Subject: Wonder who THIS is? Anybody? Message:

RFC =Request For Comment These are documents generated during/for the standardization and changes to the net. That someone probing for M has a link to an RFC is totally irrelevant other than it discusses how to route trafic in Europe relating to that 1st tier network. None of those comments are M specific nor would they ever be. WHOIS = tells you who is registered to a domwain name as well as the technical contact, admististrative contact and the billing contact as well as there mailing addresses. It also shows who (ISP) is hosting or providing DNS for the domain. Traceroute traces the packet route between 2 ip addresses All just admistrative tools that anyone can use

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Date: Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 08:33:40 (GMT) From: Selene Email: None To: Ben Lurking Subject: exactly my point Message:

thanks.

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Date: Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 01:19:46 (GMT) From: Roger eDrek Email: drek@oz.net To: Ben Lurking Subject: The link to the RFC was mine Message:

I added the link to the RFC because I did a search on SatNet and that was one of the hits. Sorry for the confusion.

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Date: Sat, Jun 24, 2000 at 23:42:47 (GMT) From: Zelda Email: None To: Ben Lurking Subject: To Ben : Oh. Thanks NT Message:

NT

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Date: Sat, Jun 24, 2000 at 06:20:13 (GMT) From: Rob Email: None To: Everyone Subject: This is your brain on Knowledge Message:

Taken from ELK, (for critical review, Fair Use etc) Between pink ice and the magic carpet, by Fernanda Zevallos I am somewhat in transformation as we speak. Who I am, I do not really know, I seem familiar to myself, a distant relative. I just want to welcome this energy, this presence learn to know who I really am. Detached and yet involved, is all so relative. To just be pink droplets encapsulated by Knowledge. From the magic carpet that is now all pink, fluorescent pink along the water, even over the rocks in this spring display of magic in Pacific Grove. Like, wow man! Any premies want to defend this crap? There's plenty more where that came from.

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Date: Tues, Jun 27, 2000 at 02:33:17 (GMT) From: LSD Email: None To: Rob Subject: This is your brain on Knowledge NT Message:

nt

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Date: Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 05:00:35 (GMT) From: Boris Email: None To: Rob Subject: Pinknic Message:

I just got an email from my sister in law who says she just went to a pinknic - pink champagne, pink salad and pink bread etc... get the picture. Very creative I thought. I thought our pink poet would appreciate something like that. Boris

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Date: Sat, Jun 24, 2000 at 14:53:57 (GMT) From: Jerry Email: None To: Rob Subject: What brain? Message:

I just want to welcome this energy, this presence learn to know who I really am.... To just be pink droplets encapsulated by Knowledge. Yeah, Fernando, I think you may have hit upon something. I frequently wonder who I am, too, but I never considered the pink droplets angle. Interesting.

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Date: Sat, Jun 24, 2000 at 11:47:23 (GMT) From: hamzen Email: None To: Rob Subject: Like an adolescent taking acid for the first time Message:

Even if they are having some amazing experiences they have nothing to process it with and come out with nursery class sub-poetry of the first order, paired with the wonders of rawats new-age muzak, and not even good new-age muzak (is that possible?), a perfect reflection of the culture around gm. A place where passion is denied, truthful, honest emotional speech is denied, & critical self-analysis without the duvet of the gurus limited set of keywords is also denied, and a place where no real creativity can be expressed because all modes of expression have been reduced in value. Sad, sad, sad.

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Date: Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 12:36:33 (GMT) From: JohnT Email: None To: hamzen Subject: Like an adolescent taking acid for the first time Message:

Yes. This is one of the most ruthlessly exploitive aspects of the fraud perpetrated by the man formerly known as Prem Pal Rawat. The ancient Yogic techniques of 'Knowledge' that he promulgates for his own self agrandisement and gain - those techniques are actually pretty advanced. They are strong meat for neophytes and liable to lead naive users into years of confusion. Especially when mixed with cult based mind control techniques and backed with a ruthless american marketing machine. All Respect to ex-premies.

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Date: Sat, Jun 24, 2000 at 10:35:32 (GMT) From: Loaf Email: None To: Rob Subject: Do you mean 'brayner' ? My search is endless! (nt) Message:

nt.

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Date: Sat, Jun 24, 2000 at 11:36:39 (GMT) From: (Sir) David Email: None To: Loaf Subject: Do you mean 'brayner' ? My search is endless! (nt) Message:

A 'brayner' is a fully realised soul who imparts his divine knowledge to people by smashing their skull in with a hammer. There have been many great brayners in our time, not least that great soul who brained the youth who threw a cream pie at Maharaji. Well that's my explanation.

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Date: Sat, Jun 24, 2000 at 14:04:53 (GMT) From: Daneane Email: None To: (Sir) David Subject: brayner(ot) Message:

Sir David, Is that for real? I've never heard of it...but it made me think again about some song lyrics I like very much...whaddya think of ... 'How many times have you opened up this skull With your delicate stone And laughed while my blood splashes Down the ground She drinks me up like a parched old bone I curse you for the pain And thank you for making me whole again.'

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Date: Sat, Jun 24, 2000 at 16:18:00 (GMT) From: cq Email: None To: Daneane Subject: The modern day revival of trepanning(ot) Message:

... like who needs a hole in the head? Believe it or not, some people fancy the idea - Weird links Department: http://www.noah.org/trepan/trepan_clinic/trepan_clinic_why.html and http://www.trepanation.com/master2.htm

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Date: Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 02:35:30 (GMT) From: Rob Email: None To: cq Subject: I need trepanning like I need a hole in the head! Message:

nt (sorry ran out of subject line space)

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Date: Fri, Jun 23, 2000 at 20:56:48 (GMT) From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Yoram and Raja in Paris next sunday! Message:

Any idea for the feast? I intend to invite them for a BBQ party ....... Hey Dharampal, call me when you'll be there ! This is a serious invitation!! For you and your girlfriend alone, we won't need bodyguards!

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Date: Sat, Jun 24, 2000 at 18:13:11 (GMT) From: Joey Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: Feed them well, JM !! :::)) Message:

Any idea for the feast? Sure. Why don't you feed them THIS and ask them what they think? :) ********************************* France aims at banning 'dangerous' sects United Press International - June 23, 2000 10:32 PARIS, June 23 (UPI) -- French Justice Minister Elisabeth Guigou says a proposed French law legally defining cults and banning them -- only just approved by the National Assembly -- is a 'significant advance for democratic states.' The proposed statute won National Assembly approval Thursday and now needs only the final support of the French Senate before it is enacted. It has the backing of the Socalist-led government of Prime Minister Lionel Jospin. Guigou told French radio today the new law would arm the country with 'appropriate legal tools needed to combat cults.' The language in the legislation makes 'mental manipulation' or brainwashing a criminal offence. The statute has come under fierce attack by various religious minorities -- most especially the Church of Scientology, which charges the statute as 'anti-democratic.' A spokeswoman for the Scientologists in France, Danihle Gounord, said Friday of the new law: 'This is a steep and slippery slope for democracy. ... In western Europe, the only regime so far to pass a law on mental manipulation was the fascist government of Mussolini, in an attempt to get rid of the communists.' Under the proposed new law, courts would have a particular procedure to follow by which groups could be defined as cults and banned and -- significantly -- kept under a ban even if they reform under a new name. A government committee in France has already branded 173 sects as what the called dangerous quasi-religious groups in the country. But both the Church of Scientology and the Unification Church have called such identification fascist, anti-democratic and a breach of basic human rights laws. The head of the government committee identifying so-called dangerous sects is Alain Vivien. And in February, he said there should be no total bans imposed on all sects, but that 'extremely dangerous' organizations -- and he singled out the Church of Scientology in particular -- should be disbanded by government order. His committee report asserted French Scientology church leaders were manipulated by church headquarters in Los Angeles. Vivien also claimed Scientology in France included 'underground activities led from abroad.' The Church of Scientology has an estimated 30,000 members in France, among its estimated 8 million members worldwide. A sponsor of the measure, Catherine Picard, claims current French law is unable to address what she calls 'increasingly sophisticated and manipulative groups.' Just a week ago, representatives of largely American religious groups bought a full-page advertisement in the International Herald Tribune newspaper urging the government to back away from the proposed law. Support for any such law, the advertisement said, would result in France being 'compared to China' in its disrespect for human rights. The Church of Scientology was established in the United States in 1954, and now has some celebrity members, including actors John Travolta and Tom Cruise and his wife. Nicole Kidman. The impetus for the new was the mass suicides of members of the Order of the Solar Temple in the mid-1990s, and allegations of extortion and brain-washing leveled at a number of other cults. According to one recent poll, 73 percent of French people believe sects are a danger to democracy, and 86 percent support banning the likes of such sects as the Church of Scientology or the Order of the Solar Temple. (emphasis my own) -- Copyright 2000 by United Press International. All rights reserved. --

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Date: Sat, Jun 24, 2000 at 23:28:33 (GMT) From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Joey Subject: Feed them well, JM !! :::)) Message:

I've already linked this stuff to the French forum. Rawat says his knowledge is for free. And guess why these guys are coming to Paris ? ...

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Date: Mon, Jun 26, 2000 at 02:18:26 (GMT) From: SB Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: LOL JM!!! Message:

Silly is not the right word. But the premies welcome the visits: They have to get inspired because K is boring like hell...

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Date: Fri, Jun 23, 2000 at 17:16:38 (GMT) From: Daneane Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Maharaji vs The Greens Message:

I just found out that the monthly Green Party of Orange County meets at the same place as the Orange County Premies sometimes meet. Why do I find that so funny? They aren't there at the same time though.

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Date: Fri, Jun 23, 2000 at 23:32:40 (GMT) From: SB Email: None To: Daneane Subject: Maharaji WANTS The Greens nt LOL Message:

nt HI!

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Date: Fri, Jun 23, 2000 at 20:58:29 (GMT) From: Nigel Email: fitzroy@liverpool.ac.uk To: Daneane Subject: Maharaji vs The Greens Message:

Hi Daneanne, Couldn't you tell the Greens about M's gas-guzzling Gulfstream Jet and fleet of luxury cars..? They'll be picketing the premie meetings in no time!

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Date: Fri, Jun 23, 2000 at 17:21:09 (GMT) From: Selene Email: None To: Daneane Subject: what's a green party? Message:

Welcome back!

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Date: Fri, Jun 23, 2000 at 23:52:22 (GMT) From: Harry Email: None To: Selene Subject: what's a green party? Message:

Selene, I'm a member of the Aussie Greens and the thing that we have in common I suppose, is the realization that if we don't look after the planet, then we have no future. It's a growing movement in the West. In Germany the Greens are in coalition, and Germany has just banned nuclear energy, although a third of their energy came from that source. It's people power at it's best Cya

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Date: Fri, Jun 23, 2000 at 21:50:20 (GMT) From: ham Email: None To: Selene Subject: It's the political wing of the eco movement Message:

We now have a few local counsellors and one european member of parliament who are green, over in europe different matter, especially germany, ther e they are part of the power structures now because of the Social Democrats,

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Date: Fri, Jun 23, 2000 at 17:25:53 (GMT) From: Daneane Email: None To: Selene Subject: what's a green party?(OT) Message:

Well...that's a tough question. My possible involvement with them stems from my support for Ralph Nader. You can check out his web-site for the whole scoop. http://www.votenader.com/

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Date: Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 22:26:36 (GMT) From: SB Email: None To: Daneane Subject: what's a green party?(OT) Message:

Hi D, I watch for a while on ESPN the Green Party Convention and I was amazed of the gutsy people there...I like Nader too! He is for the enviroment,for the people and so much more. I had no idea he was running for president. The country and the world can benefit from someone like him. He seems to be a good person. I couldn't believe the party's support for marihuana, but hey, the 2000 are here! I like what one guy's comment in how some people like to exercise their bodies and others their minds, meaning, like to smoke pot. Love, S

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Date: Mon, Jun 26, 2000 at 00:05:24 (GMT) From: Daneane Email: None To: SB Subject: what's a green party?(OT) Message:

Hey SB, I've been listening to the Green Party Convention on web radio. Nader and Hightower were pretty amazing. I brought home Jim Hightower's latest book today. Pretty amazing stuff. -dg

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Date: Mon, Jun 26, 2000 at 02:22:18 (GMT) From: SB Email: None To: Daneane Subject: what's a green party?(OT) Message:

After I posted above I heard Nader and he sounded great, didn't him? I hope he gets support. Wouldn't be great to stop the two parties BS?

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Date: Mon, Jun 26, 2000 at 06:01:02 (GMT) From: Selene Email: None To: SB and Daneane Subject: I might just vote after all Message:

This was the year I thought, I just can't vote. Just can't. I HATE Gore. as for Bush ... well nuf said. So.. It may be a crap shoot and silly to boot but you have me inspired. I always feel bad if I don't vote at all.

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Date: Mon, Jun 26, 2000 at 12:20:01 (GMT) From: SB Email: None To: Selene Subject: I might just vote after all Message:

Hi Selene, How are you doing> Check Nader and pass it around. I'm impressed by what I heard yesterday, really!

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Date: Mon, Jun 26, 2000 at 06:33:43 (GMT) From: Daneane Email: None To: Selene Subject: Nader wants you Message:

really...he's after the people who haven't voted because they feel it wouldn't matter...that whoever is in the white house won't really affect them either way. I voted for Nader last time and I'm glad I did. I don't think it's throwing away a vote, I think it's making a statement. I was really impressed with his speech. I've contributed to his campaign and I will be participating in my area.

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Date: Mon, Jun 26, 2000 at 02:42:59 (GMT) From: Daneane Email: None To: SB Subject: what's a green party?(OT) Message:

There's a cool article about Nader the 'spoiler' in a recent NY times article: http://www.nytimes.com/library/politics/camp/062300wh-nader.html My favorite part: 'Senator Harry Reid of Nevada, the assistant Democratic leader who is a Gore loyalist, contacted several labor leaders today, discouraging them from defecting to Mr. Nader. In an interview, he bluntly condemned Mr. Nader as a spoiler. 'Ralph Nader is a very selfish person and he's on an ego trip,' Mr. Reid said. 'He has no respect for the process.'

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Date: Mon, Jun 26, 2000 at 03:44:05 (GMT) From: SB Email: None To: Daneane Subject: hahahahahahaha... Message:

I see their fear. What are they going to trash Nader with? I'll read the article. Thanks for the URL. That was fuuny...thanks S

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Date: Fri, Jun 23, 2000 at 14:43:27 (GMT) From: Selene Email: None To: Everyone Subject: and it hasn't ended yet! landmark forum's legacy Message:

left behind as they ran for their lives after making tons of money off our organization: this is part of an interdepartmental memo I had to read first thing this a.m. from our vp. He never talked like this before we got 'IT' I don't know is it just me, irritable from not sleeping? ========================================================= We are a living organization, constantly adapting to our campus environment and the changes in the global community as well. We're in a constant state of transition in order to provide the best services to our customers and the best management support to our own staff.

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Date: Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 18:14:29 (GMT) From: Joey Email: None To: Selene Subject: and it hasn't ended yet! landmark forum's legacy Message:

left behind as they ran for their lives after making tons of money off our organization: They've been doing it to plenty of other organizations, including Microsoft. Just be thankful they're gone and that you didn't have to take any of their 'courses'. Plenty info about Landmark over at Rick Ross' site. Here's a sample testimonial. ******************************** Landmark Education destroyed my life--from the Forum to a psych ward 'Landmark is [like] skydiving with your sanity. Unfortunately, you are not allowed to pack your own chute' July, 1999 By a Landmark Graduate and Advanced Course drop out I have no legal recourse. I have nothing left to do but tell my story, in hopes that others will read it and avoid the pain and suffering that this organization has caused me. I am told that my case is unusual, However, I have read the stories online of others like myself who have had devastating experiences with Landmark Education. I participated in The Forum in January of 1998, and signed up for The Advanced course at the end of The Forum. During the time between courses my life seemed to be right on track and I was functioning just fine. I was more than eager to take the $700+ 'Advanced Course'. In my eyes my life needed a little shaking up. When I signed the paperwork, I never expected that my life would be turned upside down and my mind would be so shaken that I would wind up on a psych unit on anti-psychotic medication. I can recall at the beginning of the Course that we were given the instruction to 'be coachable'. In Landmark being coachable means letting go of your questions and accepting everything that the leader of the session says without inquiry. I remember at one point dredging up a horrid experience form my past and laying myself open for scathing criticism. I was required to place blame on myself for a rape that I had survived about five years previous. Somehow, my mind shut down after that. I was gone, unable to function at any rational level. I have some vague memories of being driven home. Landmark dismissed me from the session before it ended. They sent me home in a daze, unable to function in the real world. That night I can remember my fears being laid so bare that I was afraid to sleep. I was certain that if I slept that I would die. I did not sleep the next night either. Finally on Tuesday, the day I was to go back for the evening session of the Advanced Course--I wound up on the psych ward at my local hospital. I was so open to suggestion that I believed that I was under attack by vampires (I had caught an episode of Buffy at a friend's house on my second sleepless night). I was very involved with the Internet so during my second psychotic break I hallucinated that I was a computer. I also had delusions of being a river and various other things. I was mostly catatonic and could not communicate normally, as I was under the impression that I was speaking with others telepathically. To put it mildly--I was a mess. I spent seven days in the hospital and hallucinated for at least five of those seven days. I had lingering fears for months afterwards and still shake when I talk about the experience. I lost most of my memory of events from both before and during the Forum. It has taken me over a year to piece my life back together bit by painful bit. I accused my father falsely of sexually abusing me during this break. I am certain that I will never fully regain his trust or our once close relationship. Landmark Education destroyed my life. I have several other friends who are involved in this organization--they are completely lost to me. I have spoken with them since their participation and they seem like zombies, incapable of making decisions for themselves. There is no doubt in my mind that this organization is destructive. The most charitable thing I can say about Landmark is that they are a very slick sales force. I hope that this information helps some people. Please be aware [Landmark] is NOT harmless. It is NOT safe, and it is NOT the answer to your questions about life. What Landmark is--is [like] skydiving with your sanity. Unfortunately, you are not allowed to pack your own chute. Many people make it out in one piece--however, others do not. Perhaps you should: · Ask questions and do not sign any forms. · If the person persuading you to take the Forum cannot answer your questions--tactfully decline their invitation. I cannot stress this enough. Do not wind up being a casualty of this MULTI-MILLION DOLLAR CORPORATION. Like any other CORPORATION they do not have the interest of the consumer in mind--they are simply designed as a self-perpetuating money-making machine. They do not look out for participants, but they do cover their asses when it comes to potential lawsuits. DO NOT BECOME A VICTIM!!!!!! --stay far away. Copyright © Rick Ross

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Date: Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 18:48:32 (GMT) From: Deputy Dog Email: None To: Joey Subject: landmark forum's legacy - 70% Message:

Joey, Has the Forum closed down? I took the training and liked it, as did 70% of those who took it. An independent survey stated that 70% of graduates said the Forum was, 'One of their life's most rewarding experiences.' In not saying there haven't been casualities like the onw you mention, but there are traffic accidents too, and we all are not going to get rid of our cars are we? Please let me know what happened to the Forum.

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Date: Mon, Jun 26, 2000 at 14:00:26 (GMT) From: Elaine Email: None To: Deputy Dog Subject: landmark forum's legacy - 70% Message:

Oh,they're going alright -on every topic imaginable - from what a friend says - her boss/neighbor is a honcho and VERY into it -unpaid - I might add. Regards, Elaine

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Date: Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 21:12:19 (GMT) From: Joey Email: None To: Deputy Dog Subject: landmark forum's legacy - 70% Message:

DD, Sorry, but I can't confirm for you one way or another about the landmark forum still being in operation. As I mentioned to Selene, there's a whole lot of info, many articles on Rick Ross' site. I glanced through it quickly and selected the testimonial that I've posted in this thread. I can't remember any reference to the forum being closed, but again, I took a quick look so I may have missed someting. I would like to ask you,in regards to this statement you made, An independent survey stated that 70% of graduates said the Forum was, 'One of their life's most rewarding experiences.' Can you tell us who was behind the 'independent survey' and when was the survey taken? Immediately after participants had completed the program, several weeks, or several months later? BTW, if I'd just spent something like $700 (US) on a seminar and managed to survive it, I'd be hard pressed to dis it as well. It's called 'committment' :)

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Date: Mon, Jun 26, 2000 at 17:02:55 (GMT) From: Joey Email: None To: Deputy Dog Subject: Yoohoo....DD Message:

Hey DD, Is THIS the independent study you were referring to ? :::))) ********************* Forum grads say seminars helped them The Columbus Dispatch / Friday, February 14, 1992 By Sylvia Brooks The psychologist who is on call to help participants in The Forum if they become emotional during the seminars says he has seen no harm in the sessions....

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Date: Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 18:55:44 (GMT) From: Selene Email: None To: Deputy Dog Subject: you don't even get a newletter? Message:

And you paid how much for all this?

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Date: Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 18:40:11 (GMT) From: Selene Email: None To: Joey Subject: that was a good article Message:

and says it like it is/was for us as well. I don't know if you read any of my work experiences with them. I 'resisted' and got a bunch of shit for it from management. But there was NO way I could get into it, I was a brand new ex premie!!

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Date: Mon, Jun 26, 2000 at 13:59:27 (GMT) From: Scott T. Email: None To: Selene Subject: I may have met this guy Message:

Selene, et al: A couple of years ago I met a guy in a Powwow chat room who was there to caution people about Landmark Forum. He said he was writing a book about the organization. At the time I had never heard of the Landmark Forum. We were the only ones in the forum and conversed for about 30 minutes. He had a number of stories about what the higher echelon of the organization was 'up to' and some truly disgusting stories about how they sexually manipulated people, having them participate in perverse acts under the influence of some drugs and psychological domination. He said that they also dispensed a gas of some sort in their seminars. I had no idea what he was talking about at the time, and it all sounded really far-fetched. Perhaps it was this Rick guy. Why does it not surprise me that Microsoft was involved in this poopoo? --Scott

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Date: Mon, Jun 26, 2000 at 17:22:23 (GMT) From: Joey Email: None To: Scott T. Subject: Maybe, then again, maybe not... Message:

He had a number of stories about what the higher echelon of the organization was 'up to' and some truly disgusting stories about how they sexually manipulated people, having them participate in perverse acts under the influence of some drugs and psychological domination. He said that they also dispensed a gas of some sort in their seminars. I had no idea what he was talking about at the time, and it all sounded really far-fetched. Perhaps it was this Rick guy. I somehow doubt that Scott. The information and testimonials on Rick Ross' site isn't as 'far- fetched' as your conversation with whomever. Also if you take a look at Rick Ross' CV there's nothing that stands out in terms of him having written anything about Landmark, let alone a book. (although he may have referred to Landmark in some of the aricles he's written. Rick Ross is a respected anti-cult educator and activist and has extensive documentation of many groups on his site. Here's his cv: ************************ INTRODUCTION Rick Ross is an expert consultant, lecturer and intervention specialist regarding destructive cults and radical, extreme, controversial and potentially unsafe groups. He has worked with families, mental health professionals, attorneys, clergy, law enforcement and the media since 1982. He has been qualified and accepted as a court expert witness in numerous cases across the United States. That testimony has typically focused on the issues of mind control, undue influence and cultic behavior. His work as a private consultant and intervention specialist has included hundreds of cases and he has responded to thousands of inquiries. His Web site www.rickross.com has been cited by researchers and media around the world. PAST/CURRENT POSITIONS 1983 Professional Staff of Jewish Family & Children's Service 1984 Coordinator for Jewish Prisoner Program and Resource person regarding destructive cults, potentially unsafe and controversial groups 1986 Private Consultant, Lecturer and Intervention Specialist 1987 Regarding destructive cults, radical, controversial and potentially unsafe groups EDUCATION 1969 Attended Camden Military Academy, Camden, South Carolina 1970 Graduated from Phoenix Union High School, Phoenix Arizona AWARDS Community Service Citation from B'NAI B'RITH International, Washington D.C. TEACHING ACTIVITIES 1983-86 Instructor for the Bureau of Jewish Education Adult and Hebrew High classes course titled 'Cults and Crusades-- Conversion through Coercion' PUBLIC POLICY ACTIVITIES 1982 The Community Relations sub-Committee on Cults and Missionaries 1983 National Committee on Cults and Missionaries for the Union of American Hebrew Congregations 1983 Religious Advisory Committee for the Arizona Department of Corrections 1984 National Committee on Interreligious Affairs for the Union of American Hebrew Congregations 1986 Chairman-- Religious Advisory Committee for the Arizona Department of Corrections 1986 Chairman-- International Commission for Jewish Prisoner Programs 1993 Advised both Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms (BATF) and the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) regarding the Waco-Davidians PUBLICATIONS Brochure What in God's Name is going on in Arizona?' Published by the Jewish Federation of Phoenix 1982 Guidelines for a Community and Congregational Response--Cults and Missionaries Published by the Union of American Hebrew Congregations 1984 'The Missionary Threat' Published by the Institute for First Amendment Studies 1995 Articles 'Bigotry Lurks in born-again Christian Doctrine'--Published by The Arizona Republic Newspaper 1982 Books Forward to 'See No Evil--Blind Devotion and Bloodshed in David Koresh's Holy War' By Tim Madigan Published by Summit Group 1993 Chapter within 'See No Evil--Rick Ross Takes One Back' (written by Tim Madigan regarding my work with Waco-Davidian) Cited within 'Snapping--America's Sudden Personality Change' By Flo Conway and Jim Siegelman Published second edition by Stillpoint Press Cited within 'Cults and Consequences--the Definitive Handbook' Published by the Community Relations Committee--Jewish Federation of Greater Los Angeles Cited case intervention work within 'The Walking Wounded--A Look at Faith Theology' by Jeremy Reynalds--Huntington House Publishers Letters to Editor 'What Happened at Waco' Published by The Washington Post 1995 'Waco--A Response to an Article by Dean Kelley' Published by First Things Magazine Numerous other letters published regarding the subject of destructive cults, controversial groups and my related work in publications such as the following: The Nation, The Humanist Magazine, Penthouse Magazine, The Arizona Republic Newspaper, The Phoenix New Times, The Phoenix Gazette, The Scottsdale Progress and The Boston Phoenix PRESENTATIONS AT CONFERENCES 'Mind Control--The Fundamentalist Syndrome' Community Conference sponsored by the Phoenix Jewish Federation and Jewish Family & Children's Service 1983 'Conversion through Coercion' A panel presentation sponsored by the Department of Communication-- Arizona State University 1983 'Cults and Missionaries' the Biennial Conference of the Union of American Hebrew Congregations 1985 'Cults--Conversion through Coercion Maricopa County Medical Center-- Psychiatric Conference, Phoenix 1994 EXPERT WITNESS Rick Ross has been qualified and accepted as an expert witness in numerous cases within-- Arizona Georgia Kansas North Dakota Wisconsin Rick Ross has been deposed, testified and/or submitted testimony by affidavit as an expert within-- Arkansas California LIST OF LOCAL LECTURE SITES Arizona State University Auburn University Baylor University Carnegie Mellon University Concord College Duquesne University Georgia State University, Atlanta Humanist Society of Greater Phoenix Jewish Federation of Boston Knox College Lynchburg College Maricopa County Medical Center Mississippi State Legislative Committee Phoenix Bureau of Jewish Education Phoenix College Southern Utah University The McCallie School of Chattanooga University of Chicago University of Pennsylvania, Philadelphia University of Portland University of Southern Mississippi Washington State University WV West Virginia State College NATIONAL TELEVISION ABC Nightline 1993, 1996, 1997 ABC Prime Time 1995 ABC Evening News 1993, 1997 The Today Show 1993, 1995 CBS 48 Hours 1989, 1992, 1993, 1999 Day and Date 1995 CBS News This Morning 1993 MTV News 1995 Oprah Winfrey 1989, 1994 Extra 1997, 1999 Fox Television 1993 Geraldo CNBC 1996 American Journal Phil Donahue 1989, 1992, 1993 The Fox Files 1999 Hard Copy 1999 Personal Stories CNBC 1991 Jerry Springer 1993, 1994 Good Morning America 1993, 1996, 1997, 1998 Dateline NBC 1997 NBC Evening News 1993 CNN 1993 Court TV-Cochran & Company 1997 MSNBC 1997 CBS Street Stories 1993 Day One 1993 Sally Jesse Raphael 1989, 1991 Inside Edition 1991 Attitudes on Lifetime 1992 Geraldo Rivera 1988, 1989, 1991, 1993, 1995, 1996,1997 INTERNATIONAL TELEVISION CNN 1993 Nippon TV Japan 1995 Canadian Broadcast Corp. 1993, 1995 Asahi TV Japan 1995 DOCUMENTARIES Post Newsweek IN THE NAME OF GOD - national syndication 1983 NHK Japan DARKNESS INTO LIGHT - Rebuilding After a Cult Experience 1995 WACO: THE RULES OF ENGAGEMENT 1997 BNN/Court TV CRIMES IN THE NAME OF GOD 1999 LOCAL TELEVISION ABC affiliate Fargo ABC affiliate Grand Forks ABC affiliate Philadelphia KDFW Dallas KLAL Los Angeles KNXV Phoenix KOAT Albuquerque,NM KOMO Seattle KOOL Phoenix KPHO Phoenix KPNX Phoenix KTSP Phoenix KVOA Tucson KVTV Laredo KWTX Waco News 10 Sacramento, CA PBS Phoenix PBS Tucson WRTV 6 Indianapolis WTRF Wheeling,WV KATU TV Portland, Oregon WSLS-TV Roanoke, VA PRINT MEDIA National International Time Magazine Newsweek Magazine Associated Press Cosmopolitan Magazine GQ Magazine The American Lawyer The Gauntlet The Star George Magazine Scripps Howard News Service FHM Magazine DAVAR Israel Globes, Israel Processo Magazine, Mexico Jewish Press International The Guardian, London Toronto Sun Telegraf Weekly Belgrade, Yugoslavia South China Morning Post, Hong Kong Sunday Times, Johannesburg South Africa Facts Magazine, Switzerland Courier Mail, Australia Reuters Hurontaria - Canadian Czech-out Monthly Revu Magazine, the Netherlands Local Press New York Times New York Post Newsday New York Boston Globe Washington Post Eastside Weekly Chicago Tribune LA Weekly Houston Chronicle Dallas Daily News Seattle Times Austin American Statesman Milwaukee Sentinel The Phoenix New Times Scottsdale Progress Anchorage Daily News The Chattanooga Times The Arizona Daily Star Orlando Sentinel Willamette Week Portland Herald American Post The Mesa Tribune Texas Monthly Seattle Post Intelligencer Tempe Daily News The Missoulian The Arizona Republic Phoenix Jewish News Flagstaff Sun The Daily World, Aberdeen Grand Forks Herald Richmond Times Dispatch Scottsdale Progress Tribune The San Diego Union Tribune Los Angeles Times Washington Times Fort Worth Star Telegram Boston Herald Waco Tribune-Herald Boston Phoenix Milwaukee Magazine The Journal Times Phoenix Gazette Portland MA News Ravilli Republic Montana The Daily Pennsylvanian Tampa Tribune The Stranger Seattle The Republican- PA The Chicago Maroon Echo Magazine, Phoenix Philadelphia The Oregonian Chicago Sun Times RADIO National International CBS National Radio, N.Y. KABC National Network, L.A National Public Radio Pacifica National News KHVH Honolulu, Hawaii CFRB Toronto Australian Broadcast Corp. CKO National Network Canada CKW, Vancouver, Canada Radio 650 NTR Saskatchewan, Canada SAFM/National English Broadcaster, South Africa BBC/Online, England Local KFYI Phoenix KHEP Phoenix KLBJ Austin KLIF Dallas KNIX Los Angeles KNST Tucson KOA Denver KOY Phoenix KPRL San Luis Obispo County, CA KPSN Phoenix KRLD Texas KTAR Phoenix KTOK Grand Forks KTOK Oklahoma City KVEN Ventura WAMJ South Bend WDWS Champaign WFAD Middleburry WHIO Dayton WICC Bridgeport WMC Memphis WOAI San Antonio WSB Atlanta WTKN Tampa WUSA Dallas Rick Ross P.O. Box 32906 • Phoenix, AZ • 85064-2906 Phone: (602) 956-0325 Fax: (602) 224-1383 email: info@rickross.com URL: http://www.rickross.com

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Date: Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 21:20:23 (GMT) From: Joey Email: None To: Selene Subject: and that was a GREAT move ! Message:

there was NO way I could get into it, I was a brand new ex premie!! By leaving Gooey behind, you saved yourself not only from his cult, but from others as well. Kewl ! Way kewl !!

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Date: Sat, Jun 24, 2000 at 17:28:30 (GMT) From: Powerman Email: None To: Selene Subject: and it hasn't ended yet! landmark forum's legacy Message:

Make the memo into a paper airplane and leave it sitting on the floor outside his office door. Yuk!

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Date: Sat, Jun 24, 2000 at 20:38:55 (GMT) From: Selene Email: None To: Powerman Subject: I never could do that right. It's a guy thing. Message:

I just will never talk to him again. Or, if forced, I will remind him that I am unstable. That should take care of it. (dont' wanna upset the psycho in charge of ... ... ...) Making an airplane would be much simpler. Why was I not taught these simple survival skills?

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Date: Fri, Jun 23, 2000 at 14:45:58 (GMT) From: Katie Email: None To: Selene Subject: and it hasn't ended yet! landmark forum's legacy Message:

Selene - Reading stuff like this makes me very glad I work in a very conservative department within a relatively conservative university. I really could NOT stand to get memos like this, or be 'facilitated' or whatever. So no, it's not just you! Love, Katie

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Date: Fri, Jun 23, 2000 at 14:48:58 (GMT) From: Selene Email: None To: Katie Subject: thanks! I got ill reading the dumb thing Message:

That was just the closing part, 'explaining' yet another management shift - i.e. somebody got demoted more or less. barf.

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Date: Fri, Jun 23, 2000 at 14:50:47 (GMT) From: Katie Email: None To: Selene Subject: thanks! I got ill reading the dumb thing Message:

Yeah, the memos I get here may be really boring, but at least they are 'just the facts', and none of this inspirational crap. We're probably over-sensitive to it, but for good reason.

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Date: Fri, Jun 23, 2000 at 15:04:25 (GMT) From: VP Email: None To: Katie Subject: thanks! I got ill reading the dumb thing Message:

Selene and Katie, How would you like it if your boss made you watch Anthony Robbins tapes? HAD to do that at the last job. It was boring to hear because it was all common sense. He seems like a nice guy--with rather white teeth. Well, things could be worse. We could work for EV and HAVE to watch Maharaji...snicker.

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Date: Fri, Jun 23, 2000 at 16:33:59 (GMT) From: Katie Email: None To: VP Subject: I think I'd quit... Message:

Can't imagine it. I have heard the same thing about Tony Robbins - he has made zillions of dollars by saying things that everyone knows are true and could think up for themselves (gee, remind you of anyone else?) I have also heard that his teeth are very distracting :).

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Date: Fri, Jun 23, 2000 at 15:10:36 (GMT) From: Selene Email: None To: VP Subject: yeah that would be worse all right Message:

Can you imagine an EV morale boosting seminar. shudder. I don't know much about Tony Robbins but this real eccentric writer guy I know - I visited there with eb a few months ago and he had a couple house guests there, one was a guy who swore that Tony Robbins techniques taught him to walk on coals. Not that that would help me program SQL any better! I'm thinking it's not useful for much really, and he didn't even do it as a parlor trick for us!! (he was cute and cooked a nice dinner though)

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Date: Mon, Jun 26, 2000 at 14:11:41 (GMT) From: Scott T. Email: freewheeling@bigfoot.com To: Selene Subject: yeah that would be worse all right Message:

Selene: 'I visited there with eb a few months ago and he had a couple house guests there, one was a guy who swore that Tony Robbins techniques taught him to walk on coals.' Assume these were 'live' coals... Even *I* can walk on charcoal. It would be nice to walk on hot coals I suppose, but I'd rather know how to program SQL. I'm supposed to teach a class in it, and it's a new language for me. Fortunately it's not an advanced level course, and intro to SQL is only a small part of the subject matter. I may seek you out for some advice. --Scott

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Date: Mon, Jun 26, 2000 at 20:15:10 (GMT) From: Selene Email: None To: Scott T. Subject: sql Message:

You may have done as much as I have. I've been able to get the web to talk to the database with a query string. And do a bit of table manipulation. That's about it. But ask away. I'm good at getting answers and it always helps to share info. Usually people have the same needs with this stuff, integrating web tools with databases, etc. I posted my email to SB on this page so I guess I can do it again. ugh: selene@ocean.ccit.arizona.edu Good luck with your class

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Date: Tues, Jun 27, 2000 at 15:17:28 (GMT) From: Scott T. Email: None To: Selene Subject: sql Message:

Selene: Thanks. I've read over the section on SQL in the text, and it seems like a very rudimentary language. In fact, it's the most familiar material in the whole course. Don't even have to worry about any looping unless you use embedded or procedural SQL. The stuff that's unfamiliar is all this relational database specific language that acts as though it doesn't need to make any sense. 'Customer is optional to inventory' and crap like that. Sheesh. The conventions in relational database sub-disciplines seem completely silly to a statistician. Why formalize a term that has to be memorized when the fact is that it's a fairly universal concept? It just makes the whole discipline unneccessarily complicated and arcane. And what could possibly convey *less* meaning than a term like 'entity?' Oh well, back to GuruTalk, as though that's not an arcane subject. --Scott

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Date: Tues, Jun 27, 2000 at 17:27:22 (GMT) From: Selene Email: None To: Scott T. Subject: the jargon IS silly Message:

Seems a leftover from the old days. But it sounds like you are doing fine. As I said, we use it mostly to integrate our web tools. And it's been a struggle all the way! 'bleeding edge' as they say. But that is the nature of Instructional Tech. I've gotten to the point where I accept that I only know a little bit about a whole lot of things in computing. But that can be a burn out. I want to be paid to write silly stories!

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Date: Fri, Jun 23, 2000 at 15:18:20 (GMT) From: VP Email: None To: Selene Subject: Walking on coals-ot Message:

The closest I have come to doing this was taking a baked potato out of the oven with my bare hands. Not too impressive. Maybe I'm too hard on Tony Robbins-snicker. Somewhat more seriously, I think I could walk on coals, but I probably wouldn't, just because it seems like a stupid thing to do to my feet. I'd rather have them rubbed with oil, actually.

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