Forum V: Archive
Compiled: Sat, Jul 01, 2000 at 00:40:29 (GMT)
From: Jun 21, 2000 To: Jun 28, 2000 Page: 2 Of: 5


JtF -:- Here's an easy Million bucks for Rawat -:- Fri, Jun 23, 2000 at 11:38:04 (GMT)
__ Jethro -:- Here's an easy Million bucks for Rawat -:- Fri, Jun 23, 2000 at 13:02:54 (GMT)
__ Jim -:- Why doesn't he enter the Survivor competition? (nt -:- Fri, Jun 23, 2000 at 12:58:22 (GMT)
__ JtF -:- The short version -:- Fri, Jun 23, 2000 at 11:40:13 (GMT)

hamzen -:- Premies/language/loss of chances for social truth -:- Fri, Jun 23, 2000 at 10:45:27 (GMT)
__ Helen -:- Premies/language/loss of chances for social truth -:- Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 03:01:06 (GMT)
__ shp -:- People/language/lots of chances for social truth -:- Fri, Jun 23, 2000 at 15:41:01 (GMT)
__ __ JohnT -:- truth? -:- Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 16:37:07 (GMT)
__ __ __ shp -:- truth? -:- Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 17:24:22 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ JohnT -:- judgement? -:- Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 21:41:38 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ shp -:- If I may be concise for a moment... -:- Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 23:05:06 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ JohnT -:- You could be wrong for ever... -:- Mon, Jun 26, 2000 at 12:16:42 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ shp -:- reply -:- Mon, Jun 26, 2000 at 13:34:15 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ JohnT -:- reply: No (nt) -:- Mon, Jun 26, 2000 at 18:28:48 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ shp -:- reply: Now you do (nt) -:- Tues, Jun 27, 2000 at 00:51:13 (GMT)
__ __ JohnT -:- the truth -:- Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 08:35:40 (GMT)
__ __ __ shp -:- the truth -:- Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 15:16:50 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ hamzen -:- With every post you prove my original point -:- Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 22:26:10 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ shp -:- reply -:- Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 23:44:20 (GMT)
__ __ hamzen -:- People/language/lots of chances for social truth -:- Sat, Jun 24, 2000 at 12:27:16 (GMT)
__ __ __ shp -:- People/language/lots of chances for social truth -:- Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 00:50:46 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ SB -:- People/language/lots of chances for social truth -:- Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 13:45:14 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ shp -:- People/language/lots of chances for social truth -:- Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 15:45:09 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ hamzen -:- So if someones abused but they survive, that's ok? -:- Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 22:35:05 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ shp -:- reply -:- Mon, Jun 26, 2000 at 00:01:38 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ SB -:- People/language/lots of chances for social truth -:- Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 18:40:10 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ shp -:- People/language/lots of chances for social truth -:- Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 19:28:53 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ SB -:- People/language/lots of chances for social truth -:- Tues, Jun 27, 2000 at 05:02:21 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ JohnT -:- People/language/lots of chances for social truth -:- Mon, Jun 26, 2000 at 20:30:53 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ shp -:- People/language/lots of chances for social truth -:- Tues, Jun 27, 2000 at 00:53:28 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ SB -:- BUT I wasn't drowning when we crooss paths!! -:- Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 22:41:12 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ shp -:- Live and learn -:- Mon, Jun 26, 2000 at 14:18:44 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ SB -:- SHP: I'm still waiting nt -:- Mon, Jun 26, 2000 at 12:24:03 (GMT)
__ __ Jerry -:- People/language/lots of chances for social truth -:- Fri, Jun 23, 2000 at 19:52:57 (GMT)
__ __ __ shp -:- People/language/lots of chances for social truth -:- Fri, Jun 23, 2000 at 22:37:34 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ hamzen -:- That's all it is to you isn't it shp, your take, -:- Sat, Jun 24, 2000 at 12:31:48 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ shp -:- You've no idea the price I've paid for my 'take'. -:- Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 18:57:19 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Do you think anyone here wants to talk with u? -:- Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 20:24:39 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ shp -:- So YOU are the Voice of this Forum? Not! -:- Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 21:11:33 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Hey, don't take my word for it, ask around -:- Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 21:36:10 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ shp -:- Hey, don't take my word for it, ask around -:- Mon, Jun 26, 2000 at 00:16:15 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Shp, I can answer your questions -:- Mon, Jun 26, 2000 at 06:50:14 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ shp -:- Shp, I can answer your questions -:- Mon, Jun 26, 2000 at 14:38:22 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- But, as usual, you can't answer mine -:- Mon, Jun 26, 2000 at 16:26:45 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ shp -:- Can't and won't are two different animals, Jimmy. -:- Mon, Jun 26, 2000 at 17:40:29 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- sandy, it's not *jim's* to change -:- Mon, Jun 26, 2000 at 01:20:47 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ shp -:- reply -:- Mon, Jun 26, 2000 at 01:38:29 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- Jeez, sandy, you're giving us flakes a bad name... -:- Mon, Jun 26, 2000 at 01:52:36 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ shp -:- reply -:- Mon, Jun 26, 2000 at 15:06:11 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ shp -:- been down this road before, but not with you... -:- Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 01:00:35 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Get lost, you big new age balloon -:- Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 06:12:31 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ shp -:- like a blimp -:- Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 15:51:05 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- howdy sheeperoonee -:- Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 16:03:15 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ shp -:- yeah right all you wanted to do was say howdy... -:- Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 17:31:25 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- Nice to hear from ya, sandy... -:- Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 19:12:00 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ shp -:- Nice to hear from you too, gerry... -:- Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 19:37:17 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- It's downright hot -:- Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 19:49:03 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Joey -:- Mowing the grass...Joey's tips ::)) -:- Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 22:17:23 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- Joey's tips... LOL thanks, Joey -:- Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 22:35:06 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ shp -:- back o' your neck getting dirty and gritty? -:- Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 20:12:07 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- Oh the mower... -:- Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 20:49:47 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ shp -:- zoyza -:- Mon, Jun 26, 2000 at 15:13:23 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- No sandy I really like talking with you -:- Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 20:20:28 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Jerry -:- People/language/lots of chances for social truth -:- Sat, Jun 24, 2000 at 04:37:38 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ shp -:- People/language/lots of chances for social truth -:- Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 01:19:05 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ shp -:- okokok read this jerry...what a flash! -:- Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 01:29:09 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jerry -:- You crack me up -:- Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 21:17:16 (GMT)
__ __ __ Daneane -:- Kierkagaard -:- Fri, Jun 23, 2000 at 22:04:19 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Jerry -:- Kierkagaard -:- Sat, Jun 24, 2000 at 04:28:53 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Stonor -:- Kierkagaard -:- Sat, Jun 24, 2000 at 04:49:24 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Daneane -:- Kierkagaard -:- Sat, Jun 24, 2000 at 14:09:04 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Stonor -:- KierkEgaard -:- Sat, Jun 24, 2000 at 14:25:49 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Encyclopedia Brittannica -:- KierkEgaard -:- Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 00:27:43 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Helen -:- Blue ROdeo--special note to Daneane -:- Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 02:58:09 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- Blue ROdeo--I like them too! -:- Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 19:48:05 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Helen -:- like, totally off topic, dudes! -:- Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 20:57:20 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ SB -:- like, totally off topic, dudes! -:- Mon, Jun 26, 2000 at 02:38:51 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Helen -:- like, totally off topic, dudes! -:- Tues, Jun 27, 2000 at 00:20:58 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Helen -:- SB -:- Tues, Jun 27, 2000 at 00:26:58 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ SB -:- I found them. Thanks. nt -:- Mon, Jun 26, 2000 at 03:32:37 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Daneane -:- like, totally off topic, dudes! -:- Mon, Jun 26, 2000 at 03:14:52 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ SB -:- like, totally off topic, dudes! -:- Mon, Jun 26, 2000 at 03:47:53 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- musician husband -:- Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 22:26:30 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Daneane -:- Blue ROdeo--(OT) -:- Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 05:00:25 (GMT)

hamzen -:- FA's, premieish calming week once a month? -:- Fri, Jun 23, 2000 at 08:37:04 (GMT)
__ sean -:- bye! -:- Fri, Jun 23, 2000 at 22:26:32 (GMT)
__ __ hamzen -:- Not at all -:- Sat, Jun 24, 2000 at 12:43:36 (GMT)
__ Nigel -:- FA's, premieish calming week once a month? -:- Fri, Jun 23, 2000 at 21:02:40 (GMT)
__ __ Selene -:- I like YOUR idea Nigel -:- Sat, Jun 24, 2000 at 07:14:12 (GMT)
__ __ __ hamzen -:- Yeah but NigelanSelene, it verifies what they are -:- Sat, Jun 24, 2000 at 12:38:23 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Selene -:- that is true. I leave it to others ... -:- Sat, Jun 24, 2000 at 16:57:33 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ JohnT -:- that is true. I leave it to others ... -:- Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 13:25:19 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- huh? hi JohnT -:- Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 18:45:32 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Joey -:- that is true. I leave it to others ... -:- Sat, Jun 24, 2000 at 20:42:10 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- hey thanks! -:- Sat, Jun 24, 2000 at 20:50:54 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Joey -:- you're welcome! -:- Sat, Jun 24, 2000 at 20:58:34 (GMT)
__ SB -:- I like that!! My support is yours -:- Fri, Jun 23, 2000 at 12:51:42 (GMT)

Oliver -:- Satellite Slush Fund -:- Fri, Jun 23, 2000 at 06:00:55 (GMT)
__ Pizza Hut -:- Satellite Slush Fund -:- Fri, Jun 23, 2000 at 09:42:16 (GMT)
__ __ Walt Disney -:- Satellite Slush Fund -:- Fri, Jun 23, 2000 at 16:23:34 (GMT)
__ __ __ Pizza Hut -:- Satellite Slush Fund -:- Fri, Jun 23, 2000 at 16:47:17 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Selene -:- I'm sure he has no shortage of watches -:- Fri, Jun 23, 2000 at 17:22:53 (GMT)
__ Greg Hall -:- Satellite Slush Fund -:- Fri, Jun 23, 2000 at 06:08:18 (GMT)
__ __ Gregg -:- This isn't the Greg Hall from Hawaii, is it? (nt) -:- Fri, Jun 23, 2000 at 14:36:33 (GMT)
__ __ Oliver -:- Satellite Slush Fund -:- Fri, Jun 23, 2000 at 09:17:17 (GMT)
__ __ __ Too much!! -:- Yesterday's Satellite -:- Fri, Jun 23, 2000 at 12:54:42 (GMT)

Keith -:- I ,me and myself(and you too) -:- Fri, Jun 23, 2000 at 03:43:32 (GMT)
__ Elaine -:- Keith -posted you below :) NT -:- Fri, Jun 23, 2000 at 16:25:39 (GMT)
__ AJW -:- and with that... -:- Fri, Jun 23, 2000 at 09:39:20 (GMT)
__ __ cq -:- a picture's worth ... -:- Fri, Jun 23, 2000 at 19:59:05 (GMT)
__ __ __ AJW -:- ca va bien merci -:- Mon, Jun 26, 2000 at 10:37:48 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ cq -:- U too need an enlightenment re-certification test -:- Mon, Jun 26, 2000 at 18:28:27 (GMT)
__ __ Selene -:- could it have been a datura blossom?? -:- Fri, Jun 23, 2000 at 14:35:18 (GMT)
__ __ __ SB -:- OT -:- Fri, Jun 23, 2000 at 23:54:50 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Selene -:- hi SB oh yes indeed I have insomnia -:- Sat, Jun 24, 2000 at 00:12:29 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ SB -:- I would like to.... -:- Sat, Jun 24, 2000 at 00:21:38 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- ok I will .... -:- Sat, Jun 24, 2000 at 01:14:39 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ ps selene again -:- ok I will .... ok I did hope I got it right -:- Sat, Jun 24, 2000 at 20:52:45 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Selene again!! -:- your current email address bounced -:- Sat, Jun 24, 2000 at 21:00:22 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ SB -:- I just got yours: Expect mail nt -:- Sat, Jun 24, 2000 at 21:19:41 (GMT)
__ __ hahhahahahaha -:- hahagood one hahahahaha nt -:- Fri, Jun 23, 2000 at 13:13:34 (GMT)
__ __ Jethro -:- The secret of all secrets -:- Fri, Jun 23, 2000 at 10:46:40 (GMT)
__ __ __ AJW -:- I just love... -:- Fri, Jun 23, 2000 at 12:21:55 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Jethro -:- Why don't you and.... -:- Fri, Jun 23, 2000 at 15:29:59 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ AJW -:- Why don't you and.... -:- Fri, Jun 23, 2000 at 15:36:16 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Mahatma Upurjaksianand -:- Why don't you see what a picture's worth, above?nt -:- Fri, Jun 23, 2000 at 20:02:24 (GMT)
__ Michael -:- I'm curious... -:- Fri, Jun 23, 2000 at 04:29:19 (GMT)
__ __ Keith -:- I'm curious... -:- Fri, Jun 23, 2000 at 04:41:56 (GMT)
__ __ __ Michael -:- I'm curious... -:- Fri, Jun 23, 2000 at 05:17:58 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Keith -:- Believe what you want!nt. -:- Fri, Jun 23, 2000 at 06:05:08 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ cq -:- Was that a reaction, Keith, or a response? (nt) -:- Fri, Jun 23, 2000 at 20:05:37 (GMT)

Hector -:- Food for thought -:- Fri, Jun 23, 2000 at 01:54:17 (GMT)
__ JohnT -:- Food for thought -:- Sat, Jun 24, 2000 at 09:36:18 (GMT)
__ SB -:- A lot of work: Did anybody said something? zzz nt -:- Fri, Jun 23, 2000 at 23:57:46 (GMT)
__ cq -:- sick-bags available on request? -:- Fri, Jun 23, 2000 at 20:21:50 (GMT)
__ __ Stonor -:- Not Hector's words, cq, Einstein's! ;-) (nt) -:- Sat, Jun 24, 2000 at 02:33:52 (GMT)
__ __ __ cq -:- Well noticed. So I disagree with Einstein. Ha!(nt) -:- Sat, Jun 24, 2000 at 17:16:48 (GMT)
__ The cosmic religious expe -:- ience is the strongest and noblest driving force -:- Fri, Jun 23, 2000 at 03:05:09 (GMT)
__ __ on offer this week -:- from your local fake guru -:- Fri, Jun 23, 2000 at 15:44:10 (GMT)
__ __ of a Ford Fiesta when -:- trying to park in the rain -:- Fri, Jun 23, 2000 at 10:15:16 (GMT)
__ __ __ while watching a hovering -:- vehicle that's taking up the entire parking lot -:- Fri, Jun 23, 2000 at 11:44:45 (GMT)
__ __ behind scientific -:- research. Thanks Einstein, and Hector (Stonor) nt -:- Fri, Jun 23, 2000 at 03:06:53 (GMT)
__ __ __ Forum Administrator -:- Please... -:- Fri, Jun 23, 2000 at 14:51:43 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Stonor -:- of course, but . . . -:- Sat, Jun 24, 2000 at 02:31:05 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Stonor -:- Forget to post - Jim got same. Fine by me. (nt) -:- Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 04:33:25 (GMT)
__ Rob -:- Jesus, another fucking preacher (yawn) nt -:- Fri, Jun 23, 2000 at 02:01:21 (GMT)
__ __ Keith -:- Jesus, another fucking preacher (yawn) nt -:- Fri, Jun 23, 2000 at 02:38:07 (GMT)
__ __ __ Rob -:- Stupid -:- Fri, Jun 23, 2000 at 05:43:47 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ O -:- That's the spirit Rob! -:- Sat, Jun 24, 2000 at 00:30:14 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Hal -:- I'm trying O but I fear .............. -:- Sat, Jun 24, 2000 at 19:51:01 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ JohnT -:- The delusions of a nobody -:- Sat, Jun 24, 2000 at 09:29:43 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Rob -:- Jolly nice of you to say so old chap. -:- Sat, Jun 24, 2000 at 04:48:41 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Jerry -:- Good point. O -:- Sat, Jun 24, 2000 at 04:21:19 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- What IS the right way to handle such stupidity? -:- Sat, Jun 24, 2000 at 04:27:55 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jerry -:- I dunno -:- Sat, Jun 24, 2000 at 04:50:04 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Keith -:- Thanks for the polite clarification.nt -:- Fri, Jun 23, 2000 at 06:06:54 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ SB -:- That is it????? .nt -:- Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 03:33:55 (GMT)


Date: Fri, Jun 23, 2000 at 11:38:04 (GMT)
From: JtF
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Here's an easy Million bucks for Rawat
Message:
SPECIAL ANNOUNCMENT - from the James Randi Foundation


On April 1st, 1998, the second anniversary of our founding, we announce what should good news for psychics. The 'Club 2000' prize, one million dollars awardable to any person who provides good evidence to prove any psychic, supernatural, or occult power or event, is still unclaimed, and it's now even more accessible.
Over the years, several psychics have excused themselves from trying for the prize with the objection that the cash has not been easily accessible. To satisfy this objection, we've purchased US$1,000,000 in agency securities -- immediately negotiable instruments -- held in a special account for this specific purpose. There now can be no impediment whatsoever to the thousands of psychics worldwide making immediate application to take the prize -- unless, of course, they don't have the powers they claim.

There are a few high-minded psychics who have expressed complete confidence in their
ability to win the challenge, but choose to scorn the prize money, saying that vying for cash is beneath their dignity. For them, we suggest that they win the challenge and donate the
money to worthy causes such as feeding hungry children, AIDS research, or any other charity they may designate.

In actuality, the prize now amounts to US$1.2 million, pledged by more than 300 persons
in 13 countries around the world. With the establishment of the James Randi Educational
Foundation Prize Account, held by Goldman Sachs, New York, JREF thereby guarantees
the first one million of that pledging -- immediately payable to the claimant -- with its own
assets. Should the prize be won, it would be the eventual responsibility of the Foundation
to collect all the individual pledges and thereby replenish the prize account.

The book of signed pledges is on view at the Foundation. Those who have made pledges
constitute the 'Club 2000,' and have as their mascot Pigasus, the Flying Pig. We believe
that the symbolism of the Pigasus figure is obvious.

Now, ask yourself, why would any priest in our religions need your measly $1000 bucks for a some hocus-pocus to solve your little problems when he or she could have ONE MILLION for demonstrating his or her great supernatural powers???
Could it be that the priests do not have the powers they claim at all and are simply ripping you off?

The next time you are asked to cough up several hundred or several thousand bucks to watch a chicken dance, print out the Randi Psychic Challenge, reprinted here for your convenience, and give it to the priest in question. We guarantee, that all of your evil spirits and problems will immediately be solved the moment you hand this piece of paper to them. Or, at least we guarantee a good laugh, and laughter is the best medicine, now isn't it?

The One Million Dollar Supernatural Challenge
APPLICATION FOR STATUS OF CLAIMANT

This statement outlines the rules covering an offer concerning psychic,
supernatural or paranormal claims. Since claims vary greatly in character and
scope, specific rules must be formulated for each applicant. All applicants must
agree to the rules set forth here before any formal agreement can be entered
into. Applicant will declare agreement by signing this form where indicated
before a notary public and returning the form to the James Randi Educational
Foundation. Test procedures must be agreed upon by both parties before any
testing will take place. We do not act as judges nor do we design the protocol
independently of the claimant. All applicants must identify themselves properly
before any discussion takes place. Due to the large amount of correspondence
exchanged on this subject, applicants must send a stamped, self-addressed
envelope, or in the case of foreign letters, only a self-addressed envelope. This
offer is administered by The James Randi Educational Foundation, Fort
Lauderdale, Florida.

I, James Randi, through the James Randi Educational Foundation, will pay the sum of
US$1,000,000 (One Million Dollars) to any person or persons who can demonstrate
any psychic, supernatural or paranormal ability of any kind under satisfactory observing
conditions. Such demonstration must take place under these rules and limitations:

This offer, as of May 1, 1996, is managed and guaranteed by the James Randi
Educational Foundation (J.R.E.F.), Fort Lauderdale, Florida.

1.Applicant must state clearly in advance, and the applicant and Mr. Randi will
agree upon, just what powers or abilities will be demonstrated, the limits of the
proposed demonstration (so far as time, location and other variables are
concerned) and what will constitute both a positive and a negative result. This is
the primary, basic, and most important of these rules.

2.Only an actual performance of the stated nature and scope within the
agreed-upon limits, will be accepted. Anecdotal accounts of previous events
are not accepted or considered. We have no interest in theories or explanations
of how the claimed powers might work; do not provide us with such material.

3.Applicant agrees that all data (photographic, recorded, written, etc.) of any sort
gathered as a result of the testing may be used freely by JREF in any way Mr.
Randi may choose.

4.Tests will be designed in such a way that no 'judging' procedure is required.
Results will be self-evident to any observer, in accordance with the rules which
will be agreed upon by all parties in advance of any formal testing procedure
taking place. No part of the testing procedure may be changed in any way
without the express agreement of all parties concerned. Mr. Randi, though
present at formal tests, will not directly interact with the materials used.

5.The applicant may be asked and/or required to perform informally before an
appointed representative, if distance and time dictate that need, for purposes of
determining if the applicant is likely to perform as promised. This is to eliminate
the need for formal testing in such cases. There is no limit on the number of
times anapplicant may re-apply.

6.All expenses such as transportation, accommodation and/or other costs incurred
by the applicant/claimant in pursuing the reward, are the sole responsibility of the
applicant/claimant.

7.When entering into this challenge, applicant surrenders any and all rights to legal
action against Mr. Randi, and against the James Randi Educational Foundation,
as far as this may be done by established statutes. This applies to injury,
accident, orany other damage of a physical or emotional nature and/or financial,
or professional, loss of any kind. However, this rule in no way affects the
awarding of the prize.

8.At the formal test, an independent person will be placed in charge of a personal
check from James Randi for US$10,000. In the event that the claimant is
successful under the agreed terms and conditions, that check shall be
immediately surrendered to the claimant, and within ten days the James Randi
Educational Foundation will pay to the claimant the remainder of the reward
(total US$1,000,000 as of June, 1998). One million dollars in negotiable bonds
is held by Goldman Sachs, New York, in the 'James Randi Educational
Foundation Prize Account,' as surety for the prize funds. Validation of this
account and its current status may be obtained by contacting the Foundation at:
1-954-467-1112, fax 1-954-467-1660.

9.Copies of this present document are available free of charge to any person who
sends the required self-addressed envelope requesting it, or can be downloaded
from the Internet.

10.This offer is made by James Randi through the JREF, and not on behalf of any
other person, agency or organization, though others may become involved in the
examination of claims, others may add their reward money to the total in certain
circumstances, and the implementation and management of the challenge will be
carried out by James Randi via the James Randi Educational Foundation. JREF
will not entertain any demand that the prize money be deposited in escrow,
displayed in cash, or otherwise produced in advance of the test being
performed. JREF will not cater to such vanities.

11.This offer is open to any and all persons, in any part of the world, regardless of
gender, race, educational background, etc., and will continue in effect until the
prize is awarded. Upon the death of James Randi, the administration of the prize
will pass into other hands, and it is intended that it continue in force.

12.EVERY APPLICANT MUST AGREE UPON WHAT WILL CONSTITUTE
A CONCLUSION THAT, ON THE OCCASION OF THE FORMAL
TEST, HE OR SHE DID OR DID NOT DEMONSTRATE THE CLAIMED
ABILITY OR POWER.

13.Please accompany this notarized form with a brief two-paragraph description of
what will constitute the demonstration.


Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Jun 23, 2000 at 13:02:54 (GMT)
From: Jethro
Email: None
To: JtF
Subject: Here's an easy Million bucks for Rawat
Message:
When I frst joined the cult, I was told (in secrert of course) that prempal had invented a perpetual motion machine, butit is being kept secret since the world isn't raedy for it.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Jun 23, 2000 at 12:58:22 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: JtF
Subject: Why doesn't he enter the Survivor competition? (nt
Message:
ffffff
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Jun 23, 2000 at 11:40:13 (GMT)
From: JtF
Email: None
To: JtF
Subject: The short version
Message:
The next time you are asked to cough up several hundred or several thousand bucks to watch a chicken or RAWAT dance, print out the Randi Psychic Challenge, reprinted here for your convenience, and give it to the priest in question. We guarantee, that all of your evil spirits and problems will immediately be solved the moment you hand this piece of paper to them. Or, at least we guarantee a good laugh, and laughter is the best medicine, now isn't it?
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Jun 23, 2000 at 10:45:27 (GMT)
From: hamzen
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Premies/language/loss of chances for social truth
Message:
It can't be any accident that the premies who visit here are either lathering because of the blaspemy angle, or are inarticulate because they don't treasure their thinking/analytical/language skills with the same level of appreciation they supposedly give to their non-verbal experiences.

I think because of their lack of balance, and gm's encouragement of self censorship, truths that would be coming at them left, right and centre among their peers never get aired.
Consequently a whole part of their lives are left unaired, and opportunities for really developing this side of their beings becomes a disability.

Social truths are as valuable as non-verbal experiences in my opinion. Learn just as much, and of equal value as the bliss-outs.

And if you look at gm's life, is it any wonder that he's set the tone in this way.

Truly bizarre, kafka'ish childhood, dropped out of school early, always been treated with deference, very little social life with real people at all, if ever, and then years and years of reflections of his own head, since everyone around was trying not to fill his ego space with their own.

No wonder even raji ji couldn't get straight answers, and no wonder that anyone who introduces critical thinking into his environment is soon moved on.

I couldn't survive without social truths/personal challenges, crucial to my development, and including all parts of my life in those truths I receive.

Very very sad, a whole group of people with a learnt, not even accidental, learning disability.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 03:01:06 (GMT)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: hamzen
Subject: Premies/language/loss of chances for social truth
Message:
Great post, Hammie. I think the 'social truths' that my non-premie friends, and my parents, laid on me when I was a premie, were my saving grace--Hallelujah!
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Jun 23, 2000 at 15:41:01 (GMT)
From: shp
Email: None
To: hamzen
Subject: People/language/lots of chances for social truth
Message:
Dear Hamzen,

I want to reply to your post and the best way I can think of to insure continuity of thought is to copy yours and insert my replies where appropriate. I have always held truth in communication very high on my list of priorities, and like you and the rest of us, am learning how to be more up front and bottom line every day.

'It can't be any accident that the premies who visit here are either lathering because of the blaspemy angle...'

I wouldn't call it 'lathering because of the blasphemy angle', but there is a definite control mechanism which feels very uncomfortable and stifling with regard to openly dialogging in the premie world - at least up to now - about anything that is not part of the program, so to speak. I don't worry about getting sent to hell if I speak out about something that bothers me, such as the Jagdeo issue. It's hell to have something like this rolling around in one's head without resolution, now that is hell, or purgatory at least. I believe in God, and I truly believe that the Divinity does not look kindly upon child abuse.
I heard a prayer once that has stuck with me:

Dear God, if I love you for fear of hell, cast me into it.
If I love you for fear of losing your love, withhold it from me.
But if I love you for Your sake, please withhold not your everlasting love and grace.

'...or are inarticulate because they don't treasure their
thinking/analytical/language skills with the same level of appreciation they supposedly give to their non-verbal experiences.'

I believe that I am articulate. You may not agree with what I say, but I know how to say it. And I do treasure all of my human attributes, thinking/analytical/language skills among them. There are some things that cannot be contained in an intellectual
container such as the brain/mind, and as Kant points out, a leap of faith is required to go to the next step, totally bypassing the usual thought processes. It has been my experience that moments such as Kant describes confound the brain and puzzle the intellect, but are valid nontheless. Like the saying goes, you have to be there to appreciate and acknowledge it. Ineffable experiences do exist and are just as real (if not more real) as this keyboard I am touching, but that is a subjective call by the person who is experiencing it and not subject to or reliant upon anyone else's experience.

'I think because of their lack of balance, and gm's encouragement of self censorship, truths that would be coming at them left, right and centre among their peers never get aired.'

Some premies are balanced and some are not. Some ex-premies are balanced and some are not. The tree is called by its fruit. Maharaji never outright encouraged me to censor myself that I can recall.

'Consequently a whole part of their lives are left unaired, and opportunities for really developing this side of their beings becomes a disability.'

One of the main reasons I have chosen to communicate here is to have open conversation about things that I cannot talk about with most premies I know. A few of my premie friends are open enough and solid within themselves enough to talk about things shared here on this site without feeling compromised or threatened. But I really do know what you mean and have witnessed it firsthand.
The problem with airing things here on this site is that I have to split fields with anyone and everyone who has a PC and a bone to pick with Maharaji, and I don't share all the indignation that is on this site, just a few issues really grabbed me as having substance that I can get behind.

'Social truths are as valuable as non-verbal experiences in my opinion. Learn just as much, and of equal value as the bliss-outs.'

Something that I think about is how the paradigm is shifting radically at this time. OK, let me explain myself a bit:

So Jagdeo commits pedophilia, some of M's inner circle hear about it, M is informed and says or does something to try to stop it. But it doesn't stop. Jagdeo continues his trip and finally gets busted by the efforts of mostly ex-premies and some premies after years of travelling around the world and doing his thing.

Scenario: M is M and it is up to him how he deals with disciplining his subordinates. Problem with that is the law...but look at this world. Show me a group in any venue that will not protect it own even if they are guilty as sin. So maybe this tradition isn't going out this millenium, much as I hate to think that we have to go through another 1000 years of people getting away with shit because of affiliations. I have heard stuff about how it's OK to lie and do other socially uncool things for your Master, a la the Krishna/Arjuna scenario of 'it's OK to kill all these folks because they are dead already'...talk about a paradigm shift...
If Jagdeo had been busted, been treated justly but mercifully as one who is sick should be, hospitalized or imprisoned or both in a place where his suffering and the suffering of his past, present and future victims would be alleviated or prevented...if
the victims had been dealt with equitably and with a loving and compassionate heart, I know that my conscience and consciousness would be more at rest than it has been since hearing about this. The victims could have put it more behind them than it is now earlier in their lives, it would not have it to be dealt with now decades later, and I'd probably not be typing this. Better late than never.

What totally amazes me is that whoever was minding the store for Maharaji thought that this would just go away and not come back to haunt them as the kids grew up and began to talk about what happened. You just can't sweep stuff like this under a rug.

'And if you look at gm's life, is it any wonder that he's set the tone in this way. Truly bizarre, kafka'ish childhood, dropped out of school early, always been treated with deference, very little social life with real people at all, if ever, and then years and years of reflections of his own head, since everyone around was trying not to fill his ego space with their own.'

I believe that environment is a major factor in everyone's life, but I also believe that the human spirit can overcome any environmental deficits to achieve a healthy destiny. So I really don't want to get into this part of your post too deep. Maharaji has free will, is pretty educated and worldly wise at this point in his life, and I think he is smart enough to change course if he realizes something he needs to change.

I also have a mental image of the world situation getting much worse, major shit flying, the northern hemisphere literally going to hell, either through natural or man-made disaster - the biomass is shot up here - and in this apocalyptic vision I see the southern hemisphere kicking into gear, with Maharaji based in Austrailia, still thriving and doing his thing, revealing Knowledge. Yes, some bad shit happened along the way, but I see it all dissolving in a global change so big that the world as we know it is unrecognizable.

Yet in the face of all this, I still cannot reconcile the fact that 'his eye is on the sparrow' and 'not a leaf falls', for what good is saving the world if the cost includes sexually offending little children without healing them and helping them over it?

'...having come full circle from India over... No wonder even raji ji couldn't get straight answers, and no wonder that anyone who introduces critical thinking into his environment is soon moved on.'

I'd be lying if I said this didn't bother me too. It does. Like I have said before, I can deal with the opulence, the 'lilas' and all that, but I have a real hard time with bootcamp mentality in the ashrams pushing people toward suicide, child abuse, and things at that level, involving civil and human rights.

'I couldn't survive without social truths/personal challenges, crucial to my development, and including all parts of my life in those truths I receive.'

I think that I could survive on an 'existence' level without the above, but to be really 'alive' involves your shopping list and also a sentient connection to the infinite however it may manifest.

'Very very sad, a whole group of people with a learnt, not even accidental, learning disability.'

I like to take each person as an individual and not categorize groups as being one way. For in each group you have the spectrum of hard-core zealots, the shopppers, the novices, the ignorant, the previously learning impaired, the users, the joiner/followers, and the sincere seekers of whatever the group or leader of the group is offering. I think this holds true for premies, ex-premies, and all other groups of people.

I hope we can continue this conversation in a civil manner. I will be around, but not sitting at my computer 24/7, and I will be looking for your reply.

shp

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 16:37:07 (GMT)
From: JohnT
Email: None
To: shp
Subject: truth?
Message:
You are too wordy, Sir.

shp: Ineffable experiences do exist and are just as real (if not more real) as this keyboard I am touching, but that is a subjective call by the person who is experiencing it and not subject to or reliant upon anyone else's experience.

translation by JohnT accepted by shp: each person's consciousness is private and not directly accessible by others

But despite the woolly thought and woolly words, what comes over is that you are an apologist for the man formerly known as Prem Pal Rawat and his activities - you have not quite seen through the fraud. You heart still nurses a faint hope it will all turn out OK in the end.

For example you wrote wrote: 'what good is saving the world if the cost includes sexually offending little children without healing them and helping them over it?'

So it would be OK if they fixed the kids up afterwards?

You want to talk with me? Then first you must at least try to think clearly and express yourself well. It is easy to be wordy; hard to be lucid. But you will find that you are able to answer a lot of your own confusions if you work that way.

And I mean that in a caring sort of way, possum.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 17:24:22 (GMT)
From: shp
Email: None
To: JohnT
Subject: truth?
Message:
jt: You are too wordy, Sir.

shp: For your taste, perhaps. I find judgement is ugly, your perspective I can accept as your perspective.

shp: Ineffable experiences do exist and are just as real (if not more real) as this keyboard I am touching, but that is a subjective call by the person who is experiencing it and not subject to or reliant upon anyone else's experience.

translation by JohnT accepted by shp: each person's consciousness is private and not directly accessible by others

shp: hold on there, pardner. I also believe that clairvoyance exists and adepts can read another's heart and motives thereof, if not each direct thought.

jt: But despite the woolly thought and woolly words (at least I'm authentic material, not a synthetic, thanks for that) what comes over *(through YOUR cerebral apparatus, jt, and all the stuff that's in there banging around in YOUR own inimitable way)* is that you are an apologist for the man formerly known as Prem Pal Rawat and his activities - you have not quite seen through the fraud. You heart still nurses a faint hope it will all turn out OK in the end.

shp: I beg to differ on the apologist role you place on me.
No, I do not see the fraud here and now. I do see alot of human frailty and mistakes though. I nurse a strong hope that it is all OK here and now, not faint hope at some later date. This moment is the culmination of both of our existence, and here we are talking something out. I don't come here to try to convince anyone to 'come back' or any of that stuff. So don't try to do the same to me. Let's just put out how we feel and think and see things without judging if that is possible.

jt: For example you wrote wrote: 'what good is saving the world if the cost includes sexually offending little children without healing them and helping them over it?'

shp: Yes, I said that and I think I deserve some credit for coming up front and putting myself on the record that I think this whole thing stinks to high heaven.

jt: So it would be OK if they fixed the kids up afterwards?

shp: I may be wolluy and wordy, but I'm not an asshole or a fool. If one of M's people turned out to be a nut and hurt somebody and efforts were made to heal and help the victim(s),
that would be acceptable. What I hear in your last line was something very ugly and stupid, as if it would be OK to hurt kids as long as they were patched up later. If that's what you were implying, even sarcastically, then you are truly an asshole and I have been wasting my time with you.

jt: You want to talk with me? Then first you must at least try to think clearly and express yourself well. It is easy to be wordy; hard to be lucid. But you will find that you are able to answer a lot of your own confusions if you work that way.

shp: You want to be a teacher but have a hard time being a peer or a student yourself. Seen it alot before. You take the high ground in a lowclass way with keywords to keep that upmanship thing going, making me the issue and not what we were talking about.

jt: And I mean that in a caring sort of way, possum.

shp: well hey ya 'lil marmoset, I care about you too. Let me give you a little advice: it doens't come across as caring to invoke the name of a four legged critter as an endearment to someone you hardly know. it comes off as condescending and rude. Put that in your snytax and conjugate it. Hope I wasn't too wordy.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 21:41:38 (GMT)
From: JohnT
Email: None
To: shp
Subject: judgement?
Message:
shp: I find judgement is ugly...

JohnT: Well, it's difficult and horrible and can get one into shit situations. But the way I see it, you have to make judgements to live. Like, 'is it safe to cross the road, now?'

'Is this guy likely to rip me?' 'Is this a fraud?'

Judgements you gotta do - being censorious is optional.

I can judge a person as being, for example, a fraud, without that causing me to feel censorious. It doesn't imply I am better than the cheapskate (I might act the same, if I was coming from the same place).

The thing about wordiness - please would you check that you actually wrote ...what good is saving the world if the cost includes sexually offending little children without healing them and helping them over it?

In your flood of words, this phrase passes almost unnoticed - one does not for one moment imagine the author entertains the ugly idea that I emphasised. Not from the style, nor the general sentiment nor the obvious sincerity of the writer.

It is simply that your words were consistent with that position - and could be held to imply it. Why else write the qualifying clause, after all?

Too many words, not enough thought.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 23:05:06 (GMT)
From: shp
Email: None
To: JohnT
Subject: If I may be concise for a moment...
Message:
What I called judgement you called censorious.

'Too wordy shp may be, but too literal john t is.'
-channeling Yoda

I can play teacher too. And the truth I speak is just as valid as yours. Communication is not merely words.

How does it go...something like:
'Let your mind spread out, Luke
Feel the force around you.'

Not only listen, but hear.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Jun 26, 2000 at 12:16:42 (GMT)
From: JohnT
Email: None
To: shp
Subject: You could be wrong for ever...
Message:
... if you really believe
shp: the truth I speak is just as valid as yours.
... And why should you need to talk to me, or anyone else here?
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Jun 26, 2000 at 13:34:15 (GMT)
From: shp
Email: None
To: JohnT
Subject: reply
Message:
.. if you really believe
shp: the truth I speak is just as valid as yours.
... And why should you need to talk to me, or anyone else here?

jt: In this context I am referring specifically to your taking things too literally and my wordiness. You didn't realize that?

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Jun 26, 2000 at 18:28:48 (GMT)
From: JohnT
Email: None
To: shp
Subject: reply: No (nt)
Message:
Nope.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Jun 27, 2000 at 00:51:13 (GMT)
From: shp
Email: None
To: JohnT
Subject: reply: Now you do (nt)
Message:
know.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 08:35:40 (GMT)
From: JohnT
Email: None
To: shp
Subject: the truth
Message:
shp: Ineffable experiences do exist and are just as real (if not more real) as this keyboard I am touching, but that is a subjective call by the person who is experiencing it and not subject to or reliant upon anyone else's experience.

JohnT: Are you saying that each person's consciousness is private and not directly accessible by others? Do you think this is news?

shp: I like to take each person as an individual and not categorize groups as being one way.

JohnT: Welcome to the human race. But, to your cult, the biggest difference is between the 'IN' group and the 'OUT' group. All else pales in the face of your cult's project to save the world. You cling to the hope this may yet happen... You wrote

'I see it all dissolving in a global change so big (catalysed by the promulgation of 'Knowledge' - JohnT) that the world as we know it is unrecognizable.

'Yet in the face of all this, I still cannot reconcile the fact that 'his eye is on the sparrow' and 'not a leaf falls', for what good is saving the world if the cost includes sexually offending little children without healing them and helping them over it?'


It ain't gonna happen, shp - that cost (of abuse and lies and the rest) is the cost of fraud - not of truth.


By their fruits ye shall know them.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 15:16:50 (GMT)
From: shp
Email: None
To: JohnT
Subject: the truth
Message:
John,

I was listening to this guy Wayne Dwyer this morning on TV as I was flipping channels. He was reiterating that the truth is what never changes and everything else is illusion. And throughout all known history, all teachers have chimed in unison one way or another that there is more going on than meets the eye. And that thing that does not meet the eye is who we really are.

A friend of mine and I were talking about Meher Baba yesterday as well. The original 'don't worry, be happy' guy (pre-Bobby McFerren) with the big nose and the Groucho moustache. My friend told me that Meher Baba said the truth is what works.

shp: Ineffable experiences do exist and are just as real (if not more real) as this keyboard I am touching, but that is a subjective call by the person who is experiencing it and not subject to or reliant upon anyone else's experience.

JohnT: Are you saying that each person's consciousness is private and not directly accessible by others? Do you think this is news?

shp: Not news, but an affirmation of the way it is, in reply to a previous post.

shp: I like to take each person as an individual and not categorize groups as being one way.

JohnT: Welcome to the human race. But, to your cult, the biggest difference is between the 'IN' group and the 'OUT' group.

shp: Only if you think so. I am in this world alone and I will leave alone, experience-wise. I am past the peer group stuff long time. In the realm of the beloved and the lover (all within) nobody else matters. that is not to say I don't beleive in being kind to others, just that what we are talking about is very initmate and personal and not dependent upon anyone else in its pristine state. No matter what age or teacher or whatever.

All else pales in the face of your cult's project to save the world. You cling to the hope this may yet happen... You wrote
'I see it all dissolving in a global change so big (catalysed by the promulgation of 'Knowledge' - JohnT) that the world as we know it is unrecognizable.

shp: John, I don't know if it's some guy high above us in a UFO doing a scientific experiment on this planet by remote control, the Biblical God with Jesus Christ on his right, natural phenomenae and molecular action-reaction a la Jerry's view, or if what we call the universe is really just in a drop of water in some much, much relatively larger scheme of things. I used to rack my brain to understand stuff at that level and somebody told me 'you can't put the ocean in a dixie cup'...can't fit the infinite into the finite mind brain...but I can appreciate it from an 'as above, so below' viewpoint or microcosm-macrocosm thing. I do believe that increased human consciousness does have the potential to raise the vibration on the planet and that Knowledge, among things, contributes to that happening. Do you deny this?

shp: 'Yet in the face of all this, I still cannot reconcile the fact that 'his eye is on the sparrow' and 'not a leaf falls', for what good is saving the world if the cost includes sexually offending little children without healing them and helping them over it?'

John T: It ain't gonna happen, shp - that cost (of abuse and lies and the rest) is the cost of fraud - not of truth.

By their fruits ye shall know them. John T. and JC

shp: The same person who said 'by their fruits you sahll know them' stormed into the financial center of the society he lived in, which also happened to be the temple lobby - and performed terroristic acts. What JC did in the temple with a whip would be equivalent to someone going to Wall Street and creating havoc. Would you consider someone to be a spiritual teacher who did such a thing in the present? Or would you write them off as a political wacknut?

Thomas Jefferson wrote the Declaration of Independence, but was an Indian killer. The 'father of our country', George W. (not Bush), was also an Indian killer. Columbus cut off the hands of Caribbean natives who would not load his ships and become slaves.
Moses killed a man, yet also brought the basis of modern law into manifestation. King David, who was also allegedly a Master, plotted to have someone killed so he could take his woman. Seems that evolution isn't and has never been completely synced up between the spiritual-physical realms. It is said that sin/hell = separation between human beings and their source.

I know, I know...none of these guys allowed themselves to be promoted as the One, and child abuse is not new and should have evolved out a long time ago according to yours and my values. I have a problem with that too. Or else I wouldn't be here.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 22:26:10 (GMT)
From: hamzen
Email: None
To: shp
Subject: With every post you prove my original point
Message:
Just to pick out a few of the obvious juicy bits, since you've now admitted that the only thing that counts is you & god, and nobody else matters, and with attitude it's gonna be impossible.

I was listening to this guy Wayne Dwyer this morning on TV as I was flipping channels. He was reiterating that the truth is what never changes and everything else is illusion. And throughout all known history, all teachers have chimed in unison one way or another that there is more going on than meets the eye. And that thing that does not meet the eye is who we really are.

Yeah biologically we've changed very little, and neither has the trippy chemikals surging around our body, directly affected by the bio-feedback mechanisms through out our nervous systems. But like adolescents who don't realize they've been spiked, new agers are in bigtime denial, because a chemikalised ex[planation cuts out their hope, ie spiritual baggage they should have let go of years ago if they were committed to truth.

A friend of mine and I were talking about Meher Baba yesterday as well. The original 'don't worry, be happy' guy (pre-Bobby McFerren) with the big nose and the Groucho moustache. My friend told me that Meher Baba said the truth is what works.
shp: Ineffable experiences do exist and are just as real (if not more real) as this keyboard I am touching, but that is a subjective call by the person who is experiencing it and not subject to or reliant upon anyone else's experience.

Ineffable the experiences might be, but your approach to those experiences is to ride the bliss, hardly leaving much room left for the analytical side of your brain to stabilise your reality map, but then that's the last thing you'd want to be doing, and could you cope if the inneffable became effable. Exactly.

and somebody told me 'you can't put the ocean in a dixie cup'...can't fit the infinite into the finite mind brain...

You think the mind is finite, haven't you read even the most basic of scientific theory, quantum theory for instance, do you know anything about the brain/mind from a scientific angle?

What do you make of that god experience, atheists can have, when a magnet is placed oover a certain spot in their head?

terroristic acts. What JC did in the temple with a whip would be equivalent to someone going to Wall Street and creating havoc. Would you consider someone to be a spiritual teacher who did such a thing in the present? Or would you write them off as a political wacknut?

dream on shp
Thomas Jefferson wrote the Declaration of Independence, but was an Indian killer. The 'father of our country', George W. (not Bush), was also an Indian killer. Columbus cut off the hands of Caribbean natives who would not load his ships and become slaves.
Moses killed a man, yet also brought the basis of modern law into manifestation. King David, who was also allegedly a Master, plotted to have someone killed so he could take his woman. Seems that evolution isn't and has never been completely synced up between the spiritual-physical realms. It is said that sin/hell = separation between human beings and their source.

Oh right, all of a sudden it's evolution's fault, a situation one presumes god saw coming??

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 23:44:20 (GMT)
From: shp
Email: None
To: hamzen
Subject: reply
Message:
I do not have the need to badmouth you because we don't agree.
Why do you?

Ham said:
Just to pick out a few of the obvious juicy bits, since you've now admitted that the only thing that counts is you & god...

shp says:
How do you come up with that? I recognize the connectedness of all life. You act like a part of the body like a foot on a crossed leg that fell asleep and doesn't feel itself. Shake it up in there until you feel tingle.

ham said:
...and nobody else matters, and with attitude it's gonna be impossible.

shp says:
Please refer to above.

ham said:
Yeah biologically we've changed very little, and neither has the trippy chemikals surging around our body, directly affected by the bio-feedback mechanisms through out our nervous systems. But like adolescents who don't realize they've been spiked, new agers are in bigtime denial, because a chemikalised ex[planation cuts out their hope, ie spiritual baggage they should have let go of years ago if they were committed to truth.

shp says:
You can only speak from your own experience, not anyone else's. I am sorry for your bad trip. I am disgusted by your bias toward 'new agers', a group of people who you can't even define or identify. I know alot of premies who I myself would not consider 'new agers' and alot of 'new agers' who would not go near Maharaji. What is your beef with 'new agers'? You are proof that someone can be pretty intelligent and articulate and still be bigoted and narrowminded. I thought you were made out of stronger stuff than that. With all due respect, and no slamming intended, are there any folks you would call 'new agers' in your family?

Ham said:
Ineffable the experiences might be, but your approach to those experiences is to ride the bliss, hardly leaving much room left for the analytical side of your brain to stabilise your reality map, but then that's the last thing you'd want to be doing, and could you cope if the inneffable became effable. Exactly.

Shp says:
You have Nooooo idea what's going on in my brain, unless you have a hole in a wall that empties into my head for 15 minutes and then dumps you on the NJ Turnpike. (See being John Malkovich if you haven't. It's a gas.) As for the ineffable becoming the effable, I could handle that. What are you referring to, the Infinite taking a human form and tooling around?

Ham said:
You think the mind is finite, haven't you read even the most basic of scientific theory, quantum theory for instance, do you know anything about the brain/mind from a scientific angle?

shp says:
What make you think that a scientific theory is more valid than your theories or mine? You give away your own soverign authority to think your own thoughts and have your own ideas and replace them with the ideas and theories of others who have been published, spent more time reading about it in books by others with ideas, etc. Some may have validity, others not.

There is something which cannot be measured, and I can't show it to you because it's invisible. See? That big part of your brain that you use most of the time says 'does not compute', so you have to go to another suite in those trillions of cells and work from there.

Ham said:
What do you make of that god experience, atheists can have, when a magnet is placed oover a certain spot in their head?

shp says:
Will it enhance anyone's experience or do the magnets just work on atheists????

Ham said:
dream on shp

shp says:
I hope to keep having dreams and visions until I die. Thank you for you good wishes.

ham said:
Oh right, all of a sudden it's evolution's fault, a situation one presumes god saw coming??

shp says:
Not evo's fault. Evo is our friend. And the Universe is still under construction in case you haven't noticed. So God is still messing with his Creation for God knows what reason and purpose.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Jun 24, 2000 at 12:27:16 (GMT)
From: hamzen
Email: None
To: shp
Subject: People/language/lots of chances for social truth
Message:
treasure all of my human attributes, thinking/analytical/language skills among them. There are some things that cannot be contained in an intellectual
container such as the brain/mind, and as Kant points out, a leap of faith is required to go to the next step, totally bypassing the usual thought processes.

One your def of intellectual is so out of date it's funny.
So consequently your required leap of faith isn't required.

It has been my experience that moments such as Kant describes confound the brain and puzzle the intellect, but are valid nontheless.

They might confound the brain and puzzle the intellect AT THAT TIME, but I find if one works hard at it & is patient the likely triggering factors can always be either detected, to high levels of probability.
I don't believe you are even calling out to a god, but calling on your own unconscious to respond, but because it doesn't use standard verbals to communicate and because you don't have the language, a leap of faith is required.

Like the saying goes, you have to be there to appreciate and acknowledge it. Ineffable experiences do exist and are just as real (if not more real) as this keyboard I am touching, but that is a subjective call by the person who is experiencing it and not subject to or reliant upon anyone else's experience.

Who is denying ineffable experiences?
'I think because of their lack of balance, and gm's encouragement of self censorship, truths that would be coming at them left, right and centre among their peers never get aired.'
Some premies are balanced and some are not. Some ex-premies are balanced and some are not. The tree is called by its fruit. Maharaji never outright encouraged me to censor myself that I can recall.
Oh so all those premies who won't say anything but 'see a video' came to that realization seperately?
All those quotes over the years about the mind never affected you in any way?
If you understood his use of keywords and repetition to programme you'd see how obvious it was! Is it possible in your eyes that I could hAve a similar experience on a regular basis if gm wasn't involved?

One of the main reasons I have chosen to communicate here is to have open conversation about things that I cannot talk about with most premies I know. And why is that shp? A few of my premie friends are open enough and solid within themselves enough to talk about things shared here on this site without feeling compromised or threatened. But I really do know what you mean and have witnessed it firsthand.
So you agree they've been programmed!
The problem with airing things here on this site is that I have to split fields with anyone and everyone who has a PC and a bone to pick with Maharaji, and I don't share all the indignation that is on this site, just a few issues really grabbed me as having substance that I can get behind.
I thought the premie site was starting a discussion group sometime, still not happened, what a surprize!
'Social truths are as valuable as non-verbal experiences in my opinion. Learn just as much, and of equal value as the bliss-outs.'
Something that I think about is how the paradigm is shifting radically at this time. OK, let me explain myself a bit:
So Jagdeo commits pedophilia, some of M's inner circle hear about it, M is informed and says or does something to try to stop it. But it doesn't stop. Jagdeo continues his trip and finally gets busted by the efforts of mostly ex-premies and some premies after years of travelling around the world and doing his thing.
Scenario: M is M and it is up to him how he deals with disciplining his subordinates. Problem with that is the law...but look at this world. Show me a group in any venue that will not protect it own even if they are guilty as sin.

Urgh, we are talking of the lord of the universe, the supremest incarnation of god, if not god hisself, the highest spiritual authority, purer than pure, whiter than white.

So maybe this tradition isn't going out this millenium, much as I hate to think that we have to go through another 1000 years of people getting away with shit because of affiliations. I have heard stuff about how it's OK to lie and do other socially uncool things for your Master, a la the Krishna/Arjuna scenario of 'it's OK to kill all these folks because they are dead already'...talk about a paradigm shift...
Powerful thing equal rights, exposes the frauds beatifully.

What totally amazes me is that whoever was minding the store for Maharaji thought that this would just go away and not come back to haunt them as the kids grew up and began to talk about what happened. You just can't sweep stuff like this under a rug.
What amazes me is your naivete in being amazed. Says a lot.

And the fact that you see gm as worlywise I find even more astonishing.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 00:50:46 (GMT)
From: shp
Email: None
To: hamzen
Subject: People/language/lots of chances for social truth
Message:
Hey Ham,

If we keep copying our posts and adding replies, this could get pretty long. So I will erase most of my words on your post, copy yours and respond to them.

One your def of intellectual is so out of date it's funny. So consequently your required leap of faith isn't required. -Ham

So YOU say.

It has been my experience that moments such as Kant describes confound the brain and puzzle the intellect, but are valid nontheless. They might confound the brain and puzzle the intellect AT THAT TIME, but I find if one works hard at it & is patient the likely triggering factors can always be either detected, to high levels of probability. I don't believe you are even calling out to a god, but calling on your own unconscious to respond, but because it doesn't use standard verbals to
communicate and because you don't have the language, a leap of faith is required. -Ham

Your operative words are 'I don't believe...'. Fine. don't believe it. I'm not on trial here and you aren't the bottom line
of where it's at for me, only for yourself.

Who is denying ineffable experiences? -Ham

Ineffable = Too great to be described in words (Webster) ....therefore too great for that which communicates with words to contain, ie the intellect and the mind/brain. (Me)
You tell me who is denying the ineffable, Ham.

'I think because of their lack of balance, and gm's encouragement of self censorship, truths that would be coming at them left, right and centre among their peers never get aired.' -Ham

Some premies are balanced and some are not. Some ex-premies are balanced and some are not. The tree is called by its fruit. Maharaji never outright encouraged me to censor myself that I can recall.

Oh so all those premies who won't say anything but 'see a video' came to that realization seperately? -Ham

Let's get something straight here and now. I cannot speak for anyone else in this world but myself. So please don't ask me about 'all those premies'. All I can speak of with any knowing
is my own experience. If that experience is of other people, that's one thing. But I cannot speak FOR them. If somebody totally and unequivocably accepts a teacher, then their will is totally and unequivocably subordinated to their teacher. It's an ineffable experience, beyond words or intellect. Can't argue the point, just fish or cut bait. Go figure.

All those quotes over the years about the mind never affected you in any way? If you understood his use of keywords and repetition to programme you'd see how obvious it was! Is it possible in your eyes that I could hAve a similar experience on a regular basis if gm wasn't involved? -Ham

I am here Ham, conversing with you right now. So whatever effect
the 'keywords' and repetition had on me has not stopped me from
communicating with you without any feeling of my core beliefs being threatened. I knew who I was before I met Maharaji. And despite whatever earthly stuff he has going on, I know that Knowledge works when applied. And yes, with alot of faith, grace
and determination one can have the desired experience without a physical Master's direct guidance. He said so himself many years ago in a Q & A. This is old news. As for the repetition, whenever I hear a cardinal's song, I know it's a cardinal and it's always beautiful...same goes for the other birds and critters and their songs and noises. When somebody says 'oh god' during orgasm over and over, does it become boring or dull? Not if the orgasm is REAL, my brother! To me, when someone pours their heart out in words, even if those words are similar or repetitious, it's always beautiful if they are coming from a genuine experience and not a sense of duty or obligation to do the drill. That's how religions got started, the experience was lost and all they had left was the words and traditions without the essence. Like finding a shell without the hermit crab inside and thinking the shell is what it's all about even though it's empty. I feel that sincere devotees need to keep it real, and as history shows, it's not that easy to pull off. Ever hear of the 80-20 rule? It has been said that 20% of any organization 'gets it' and really participates in the true spirit of the thing, and 80% are card carrying members and show up for parties and leave just before cleanup time. I'm not saying this is necessarily true of premies but...

One of the main reasons I have chosen to communicate here is to have open conversation about things that I cannot talk about with most premies I know.

And why is that shp? -Ham

Duh, Ham. If Maharaji's words are true, and he said I have nothing to fear in this world, and he is in this world, then I don't have to fear him by speaking freely about anything. In the Bible, devotees are advised to 'boldly approach the throne of grace and ask of He who will ubraideth not,' and so on. I'm not afraid of going to hell for this conversation or any conversation I may have with anyone about anything. I think some premies may be. I also think that some premies are totally 'gone' as the song used to go, and to even discuss any of this for them would be out of the question. I don't happen to share their viewpoint, nor do I judge their manner of devotion to their teacher. How they do it is not my cup of tea.

A few of my premie friends are open enough and solid within themselves enough to talk about things shared here on this site without feeling compromised or threatened. But I really do know what you mean and have witnessed it firsthand. So you agree they've been programmed! -Ham

No, I say that there are many levels and depths of understanding about any subject including Knowledge and Maharaji and people are strewn onto all levels by their (our) own effort and sincerity.
I am not here to judge anyone however, but observe I can.

The problem with airing things here on this site is that I have to split fields with anyone and everyone who has a PC and a bone to pick with Maharaji, and I don't share all the indignation that is on this site, just a few issues really grabbed me as having substance that I can get behind.

I thought the premie site was starting a discussion group sometime, still not happened, what a surprize! -Ham

TTT, Ham. Things Take Time. Especially when it's on a global scale. Easy to sit back and be the armchair QB, but if you sincerely want to see change in anything, patience is required.
I know nothing of the proposed discussion group, but if it happened I'd be interested. And if it did happen soon, would you be optimistic or cynical about the content from the getgo? Check out your own attitude as well as the progress of the discussion group. If it started up, would you sincerely wish it well? Or would you be sitting there looking for fault every step of its
infancy and early development?

(Riff about Jagdeo, deleted for space)

Urgh, we are talking of the lord of the universe, the supremest incarnation of god, if not god hisself, the highest spiritual authority, purer than pure, whiter than white. -Ham

Really? Is that who you think he is?

Powerful thing equal rights, exposes the frauds beatifully. -Ham

Thing is, Ham, there have been times in history when all bets have been made suddenly off, massive shit - I mean shifts - have occurred, and new ground rules have been established under new management. Fair? Unfair? Way beyond all that. It's just what happened, what went down. They call it evolution and progress. Sometimes I wonder about that myself. My arm got tired a long time ago shaking my fist at the sky and demanding to know what the hell is going on around here. If there is any sanity, it must be within, because it seems to be nuts almost everywhere else. If you subscribe to the idea of the Yugas and we are in the Kali Yuga, then we must expect and accept the chaos as a child must accept the shorts and the previews before the feature presentation at the movies. Boring, stupid, I donwanna see this shit, I wanna see what I came here to see...the main attraction, THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN ESTABLISHED ON EARTH IN MY LIFETIME, IN MY OWN LIFE AT LEAST AND GLOBALLY WOULD BE NICE. I'd like to say to somebody 'wake me when the feature starts', but I'm afraid that doesn't seem to be how it works.

What totally amazes me is that whoever was minding the store for Maharaji thought that this would just go away and not come back to haunt them as the kids grew up and began to talk about what happened. You just can't sweep stuff like this under a rug.

What amazes me is your naivete in being amazed. Says a lot. -Ham

It's not amazement, poor choice of words. I'm not naive. It's disappointment.

And the fact that you see gm as worldywise I find even more astonishing. -Ham

What astonishes me is your astonishment (just playing with you here...) But really, by worldly wise I mean street smart.

This format get unwieldy. Suggestions?

shp

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 13:45:14 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: shp
Subject: People/language/lots of chances for social truth
Message:
Shp said:

Some premies are balanced and some are not. Some ex-premies are balanced and some are not. The tree is called by its fruit. Maharaji never outright encouraged me to censor myself that I can recall.

I have news. Directly he never did much, but Elan Vital IS GMJ, and Elan Vital gagged people who participate in the communities asking not to talk about their experiences, not to answer questions of new people, NEVER talk to the press, NEVER use the word Master with a new person; ask David Smith if I'm lying. Do you want the phone number, his home? We were asked to offer a video when somebody asked questions about K, and us, me, doing service in the community were suppossed to pass the info to the other premies of the community, only to the ones that came regularly, 'who supported' $$$ the community. This 'orders' were always transmitted in their phone conferences and we were not allowed to tape them, well, I did. Very interesting stuff...David Smith is the one who pass the info from maharachi to the rest, for what I know...

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 15:45:09 (GMT)
From: shp
Email: None
To: SB
Subject: People/language/lots of chances for social truth
Message:
Shp said:
Some premies are balanced and some are not. Some ex-premies are balanced and some are not. The tree is called by its fruit. Maharaji never outright encouraged me to censor myself that I can recall.

SB said:
I have news. Directly he never did much, but Elan Vital IS GMJ, and Elan Vital gagged people who participate in the communities asking not to talk about their experiences, not to answer questions of new people, NEVER talk to the press, NEVER use the word Master with a new person; ask David Smith if I'm lying.

Do you want the phone number, his home? We were asked to offer a video when somebody asked questions about K, and us, me, doing service in the community were suppossed to pass the info to the other premies of the community, only to the ones that came regularly, 'who supported' $$$ the community. This 'orders' were always transmitted in their phone conferences and we were not allowed to tape them, well, I did. Very interesting stuff...David Smith is the one who pass the info from maharachi to the rest, for what I know...

shp:
YOU sure don't seem gagged to me. Your free will is still intact and you are singing like a bird, using your God-given voice and consciousness and conscience as your spirit moves you. Anybody in a red suit with a pitchfork chasing you around? So what's the problem? If you ran any kind organization, wouldn't you tend to trust those who were regulars and consistently supported you? And would you want to control your public image as you saw fit?
As for EV/M's making changes in their thing, that's standard operating procedure for any organization. New logo comes out, old one disappears, old jargon disappears, new jargon appears.
Old Testament, New Testament, get it? You gonna tell God that he's an idiot and a fraud for changing the agreement with human beings? (God thru man thru inspiration=in spirit). The whole desired result is to make it easier to make the connection as I see it. Not perfect, as in beyond the need for improvement.

David was my instructor. I know him and he knows me, nothing real personal or tight. And I don't think you are lying.

shp

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 22:35:05 (GMT)
From: hamzen
Email: None
To: shp
Subject: So if someones abused but they survive, that's ok?
Message:
re you seem feisty etc

A curious philosophy for one so rarified, if gm's message carries what are messages to think & see things in a certain way, and those messages affect people negatively that's ok???

I guess everythings a lila, right shp??

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Jun 26, 2000 at 00:01:38 (GMT)
From: shp
Email: None
To: hamzen
Subject: reply
Message:
ham said:
A curious philosophy for one so rarified, if gm's message carries what are messages to think & see things in a certain way, and those messages affect people negatively that's ok???
I guess everythings a lila, right shp??

shp says:
Loaded question. Responsbility can rest in more than one place depending on the circumstances.

Everything is what it is. We can dance through our life or go kicking and screaming. That's our choice, no one else's. Everybody has shit happening in their lives. Many have been betrayed by family, lovers, friends, business partners, religions, charlatans, doctors, lawyers, salesmen, etc. if you feel you have been betrayed by someopne you thought you could trust, take a deep breath and figure out how to get back to where you were going in the first place, trying not to miss a moment of the sheer joy of life itself....just a suggestion...works for me when I do it.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 18:40:10 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: shp
Subject: People/language/lots of chances for social truth
Message:
SHP,

I agree about the part how organizations work but I think you forgot to elavorate in the gagging itself. We are talking about God Incarnated here. Why EV would say that to people, but to hide the truth that behing the whole thing has CULT reading all over and new people are not to know details until they are deep in the 'river of devotion'?

Yes, I'm not gagged. I'm free now to EXPRESS my opinions because I'm not a premie anymore...Your conclussion was not very good, i'm afraid to say. GMJ is not 'just' another organization. He is deceiving new people hiding the facts of the past and the old premies still think he's God and M knows it, and I tell you why: I sent several times cards and letters to him expressing my belief at the time that he was 'that' encarnation. Do you think even once he wrote to tell me, as a teacher, to help me grow, that it wasn't true that he is the Lord? No shp, we are talking about God here. Why he has to gag people? Gurus find reasons for all, including for oppression. He is no authority but a greedy guru taking advantage of poor innocent people who don't know any better, showing some old meditation techniques...

Nice to see you trying hard to convince yourself and others... You can keep trying...I'm set.

SB

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 19:28:53 (GMT)
From: shp
Email: None
To: SB
Subject: People/language/lots of chances for social truth
Message:
shp wrote:
Shp said:
Some premies are balanced and some are not. Some ex-premies are balanced and some are not. The tree is called by its fruit. Maharaji never outright encouraged me to censor myself that I can recall.

SB said:
I have news. Directly he never did much, but Elan Vital IS GMJ, and Elan Vital gagged people who participate in the communities asking not to talk about their experiences, not to answer questions of new people, NEVER talk to the press, NEVER use the word Master with a new person; ask David Smith if I'm lying.

Do you want the phone number, his home? We were asked to offer a video when somebody asked questions about K, and us, me, doing service in the community were suppossed to pass the info to the other premies of the community, only to the ones that came regularly, 'who supported' $$$ the community. This 'orders' were
always transmitted in their phone conferences and we were not allowed to tape them, well, I did. Very interesting stuff...David Smith is the one who pass the info from maharachi to the rest, for what I know...

shp:
YOU sure don't seem gagged to me. Your free will is still intact and you are singing like a bird, using your God-given voice and consciousness and conscience as your spirit moves you. Anybody in a red suit with a pitchfork chasing you around? So what's the problem? If you ran any kind organization, wouldn't you tend to trust those who were regulars and consistently supported you? And would you want to control your public image as you saw fit?
As for EV/M's making changes in their thing, that's standard operating procedure for any organization. New logo comes out, old one disappears, old jargon disappears, new jargon appears.
Old Testament, New Testament, get it? You gonna tell God that he's an idiot and a fraud for changing the agreement with human beings? (God thru man thru inspiration=in spirit). The whole desired result is to make it easier to make the connection as I see it. Not perfect, as in beyond the need for improvement.

David was my instructor. I know him and he knows me, nothing real personal or tight. And I don't think you are lying.

shp

SB responded:
I agree about the part how organizations work but I think you forgot to elaborate in the gagging itself.

shp: Terminology can be very powerful depending on how it is used. The term 'gagging' paints mental pictures of something forced, very unpleasant, ugly, something that literally puts the power to breathe and stay alive in jeopardy. To ask for or even demand privacy from members of one's organization is not beyond reason. It's the motives and that aspect that should be looked at, not the emphasis on the privacy issue.

sb: We are talking about God Incarnated here.

shp: Are we?

sb: Why EV would say that to people, but to hide the truth that behing the whole thing has CULT reading all over and new people are not to know details until they are deep in the 'river of devotion'?

Yes, I'm not gagged. I'm free now to EXPRESS my opinions because I'm not a premie anymore

shp: I'm not 'gagged' and I'd still call myself a premie even though I don't buy the whole program. Should I be trembling? Don't think so. You were always free to speak your truth, but you gave your authority away for a time, believed what you believed. Stop blaming others for that and take responsibility for your own actions or lack of.

sb..Your conclussion was not very good (*you mean you don't agree), i'm afraid to say. GMJ is not 'just' another organization. He is deceiving new people hiding the facts of the past and the old premies still think he's God and M knows it, and I tell you why: I sent several times cards and letters to him expressing my belief at the time that he was 'that' incarnation. Do you think even once he wrote to tell me, as a teacher, to help me grow, that it wasn't true that he is the Lord? No shp, we are talking about God here. Why he has to gag people? Gurus find reasons for all, including for oppression. He is no authority but a greedy guru taking advantage of poor innocent people who don't know any better, showing some old meditation techniques...

Nice to see you trying hard to convince yourself and others... You can keep trying...I'm set.

shp: Believe it or not, I'm not here to convince anyone of anything, including myself.

If somebody threw you a rope and you were drowning, would you get pissed off if it was a polyester/nylon synthetic and not natural fiber? Would you care what the name of the rope company was or if it had just changed it name? Would you care if the guy on the other end of the rope had a bunch of folks on his crew who thought he was God? You know what, he would be god to you, or at least a direct representative of the Deity if he saved your life, and whether or not he had women on the side, or whether he had a Christ complex, or whether he had dysfunctional crew members, you would not give a rat's ass. You'd be alive and grateful and very compassionate and forgiving of any and every personal shortcoming the guy who pulled you out may have. I'm lying or I'm dying ovuh heah. Now speak the truth to this please. You don't have to join his crew, or even pay the guy, but you gotta admit you owe him at the very least your gratitude for pulling you out of the drink, don't you?

shp

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Jun 27, 2000 at 05:02:21 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: shp
Subject: People/language/lots of chances for social truth
Message:
Not even one of your statement was true. I can't even answer to the garbage you wrote! Shame on you!!
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Jun 26, 2000 at 20:30:53 (GMT)
From: JohnT
Email: None
To: shp
Subject: People/language/lots of chances for social truth
Message:
Hi shp,

Is this like what happened to you?

shp wrote: If somebody threw you a rope and you were drowning, would you get pissed off if it was a polyester/nylon synthetic and not natural fiber? Would you care what the name of the rope company was or if it had just changed it name? Would you care if the guy on the other end of the rope had a bunch of folks on his crew who thought he was God? You know what, he would be god to you, or at least a direct representative of the Deity if he saved your life, and whether or not he had women on the side, or whether he had a Christ complex, or whether he had dysfunctional crew members, you would not give a rat's ass. You'd be alive and grateful and very compassionate and forgiving of any and every personal shortcoming the guy who pulled you out may have. I'm lying or I'm dying ovuh heah. Now speak the truth to this please. You don't have to join his crew, or even pay the guy, but you gotta admit you owe him at the very least your gratitude for pulling you out of the drink, don't you?

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Jun 27, 2000 at 00:53:28 (GMT)
From: shp
Email: None
To: JohnT
Subject: People/language/lots of chances for social truth
Message:
Sort of but not in a traditional way. Very individual stuff.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 22:41:12 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: shp
Subject: BUT I wasn't drowning when we crooss paths!!
Message:
I really wasn't! I was a happy person, young, 18, with a life ahead of me, and he took that away from me, without my permission, with his powers of persuassion, with his incredible Indian stories, with fear, with quotes of the Bible, etc. I let myself get involved with some premies who yes, came to my home so, so many times to drag me to satsang, that I made him responsible: Don't you remember in the 70s how he encouraged propagation? How we were supposse to stop being shy and many, doing service to him, went to the steets to chant the Lord is here? Common...I remeber...I was there...Gurus are dangerous because they don't even know the damage they inflict in their devotees, the bondage created by all the false beliefs that he is special and that a person needs him, to cross to the 'other side'...What side? To find out what I like and what I don't like? I don't need to follow a greasy guru for that. It's sad that took me two decades that will never comeback. What did I got from that? Cero! It was all a dream in my head.

I knew about personal details about him and yes, I had compassion and understanding but not anymore. He is no Lord or leader. He takes people to a pale state of shining zombie mood. Sad.

Your words show shp, clearly, that you support gurus of his caliber work to spread lies.

Be well,

SB

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Jun 26, 2000 at 14:18:44 (GMT)
From: shp
Email: None
To: SB
Subject: Live and learn
Message:
shp: Believe it or not, I'm not here to convince anyone of anything, including myself.

If somebody threw you a rope and you were drowning, would you get pissed off if it was a polyester/nylon synthetic and not natural fiber? Would you care what the name of the rope company was or if it had just changed it name? Would you care if the guy on the other end of the rope had a bunch of folks on his crew who thought he was God? You know what, he would be god to you, or at least a direct representative of the Deity if he saved your life, and whether or not he had women on the side, or whether he had a Christ complex, or whether he had dysfunctional crew members,
you would not give a rat's ass. You'd be alive and grateful and very compassionate and forgiving of any and every personal shortcoming the guy who pulled you out may have. I'm lying or I'm dying ovuh heah. Now speak the truth to this please. You don't
have to join his crew, or even pay the guy, but you gotta admit you owe him at the very least your gratitude for pulling you out of the drink, don't you?

shp

SB responded:
I really wasn't! I was a happy person, young, 18, with a life ahead of me, and he took that away from me, without my permission, with his powers of persuassion, with his incredible Indian stories, with fear, with quotes of the Bible, etc. I let myself get involved with some premies who yes, came to my home so, so many times to drag me to satsang, that I made him responsible...

shp says:
'he took' and 'I let myself' and 'I made him responsible'...your words above.

Let's say for the sake of this dialog that you got taken for a ride and it took you nowhere and worse as you claim, robbed you of your life, etc. I can definitely relate to that in ways you cannot imagine and which I do not wish to talk about here and now, not necessarily having to do with Maharaji.

OK, here you are, feeling like you have been robbed of the normal
development of your early adult years because you got involved with Mahraji. Boiled down to the simplest terms, take whatever good from it you got and go forth with your life, knowing that you have experienced something that you have learned from, be the lessons 'good or bad', your soul has that experience now and is wiser for it.

sb said:
Don't you remember in the 70s how he encouraged propagation? How we were supposse to stop being shy and many, doing service to him, went to the steets to chant the Lord is here? Common...I remember...I was there...

shp says:
So was I, waiting at bus stops in Miami Beach in the late 70's and early 80's and breaking into vociferous spontaneous satsang
for anyone who would listen under the palms and tropical sun.
Felt like the real thing, got positive warm fuzzies from the instructors, etc.

sb:
Gurus are dangerous because they don't even know the damage they inflict in their devotees, the bondage created by all the false beliefs that he is special and that a person needs him, to cross to the 'other side'...What side? To find out what I like and what I don't like? I don't need to follow a greasy guru for that. It's sad that took me two decades that will never comeback. What did I got from that? Cero! It was all a dream in my head.

shp:
Referring to your above post, I don't know what 'Gurus' are aware or unaware of. If you learned something from an experience, it wasn't a total loss. And if you were 18 then and it took you 2 decades, that make you 38 with probably a few more years tagged on. So you are around 40? You are still young, the human spirit is surprisingly resilient, and you sound very much alive and into wanting to be happy. Consider yourself fortunate to have discovered the path you were on was not for you, while you still have life and breath and the power to change your course. Some people never do. Count your blessings, if that's how you see them.

sb:
I knew about personal details about him and yes, I had compassion and understanding but not anymore. He is no Lord or leader. He takes people to a pale state of shining zombie mood. Sad.

shp:
I know some 'shining zombies' who belong to a diverse group of organizations and study under a diverse group of teachers. I understand how you feel, but would not put that on the teachers alone. Some I know became shining zombies because of the way they process information and interpret things. I never met a teacher whose deliberate goal was to create shining zombies.

sb:
Your words show shp, clearly, that you support gurus of his caliber work to spread lies. Be well, SB

shp:
I am sorry you feel that way about me. I have lived my personal and professional life as honestly as I could, not afraid to speak out or act when I saw something unfair or weird going on. This is the first time in my life where I seem to be on the other side of the fence, myself being considered false, an apologist for a false teacher, not being truthful in my words, etc.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Jun 26, 2000 at 12:24:03 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: shp
Subject: SHP: I'm still waiting nt
Message:
nt
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Jun 23, 2000 at 19:52:57 (GMT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: shp
Subject: People/language/lots of chances for social truth
Message:
There are some things that cannot be contained in an intellectual container such as the brain/mind, and as Kant points out, a leap of faith is required to go to the next step, totally bypassing the usual thought processes.

Oh? I happen to think that ALL of human experience is contained in the brain/mind, including emotional and spiritual experiences, not just intellectual ones. And it was Heidegger, if I recall correctly, who advocated taking a leap of faith, not Kant.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Jun 23, 2000 at 22:37:34 (GMT)
From: shp
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: People/language/lots of chances for social truth
Message:
There are some things that cannot be contained in an intellectual container such as the brain/mind, and as Kant points out, a leap of faith is required to go to the next step, totally bypassing the usual thought processes. -shp

Oh? I happen to think that ALL of human experience is contained in the brain/mind, including emotional and spiritual experiences, not just intellectual ones. And it was Heidegger, if I recall correctly, who advocated taking a leap of faith, not Kant. -jer

Hey Jerry,

It is such a wonderful thing as free will to have the choice and the power to formulate and express yourself as you have done.
Thing is, nobody has to agree with you and you can still have your own opinions and thoughts. No problem. You have yours and I have mine and we have shared. Great!

Some folks I know think all of their experience is contained in their pants, others in their wallets, and yet others in their
closets, cars, and all the rest of their material possessions, their accomplishments, their good deeds, their trophies, their belief systems, etc etc. So you think it's all in your head.

If the head is like the control panel of a car, and you say the experience of driving (metaphor for life) and all that goes with it is in the control panel, that kind of ignores the fact that without the arc jumping between the point and the plug, your control panel won't even light up, let alone allow you to operate your vehicle.

Care to continue?

shp

ps thanks for the heads up about Kant

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Jun 24, 2000 at 12:31:48 (GMT)
From: hamzen
Email: None
To: shp
Subject: That's all it is to you isn't it shp, your take,
Message:
my take, but ultimately like all new agers who can't think, it's all relative.

Which is basically saying you're just playing word games, because it's not as important as the non-verbal ineffable stuff. Sloppy, sloppy, sloppy.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 18:57:19 (GMT)
From: shp
Email: None
To: hamzen
Subject: You've no idea the price I've paid for my 'take'.
Message:
And unless or until you do, your judgements of me are and will continue to be inaccurate and reveal your bias against all premies, regardless of who each one may be as an individual. Bigotry is bigotry, however you cut it. And based on your own bigotry, you won't know. You cannot in your present state of mind be trusted with more information, as I see it.

I am not here now to play 'who can piss off the other one first', or come up with the best insults or word snares. And as soon as I sense that the person I am trying to communicate with is into that, it's finished for the time being. Call me whatever, critique my way of communicating, whatever. Do that and you'll be doing it to dead air and your peanut gallery of hangers-on who just want to see a fight like kids on a playground. I can appreciate that as a way of releasing pent of anger and negative energy, but I don't want to play that way or degrade myself by getting into it like that. If that's how you get off, go for it.
Not my cup of tea.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 20:24:39 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: shp
Subject: Do you think anyone here wants to talk with u?
Message:
Shp,

Do you feel welcome here? Because I can assure you, you're not. Now you'v made a point of saying you won't stick around if you're not welcome. Was that just a lie? Because if it wasn't, you should get lost. You're NOT wanted here, not at all. You're a very, very stupid person, Shp. You say the dumbest things I ever hear here. Personally, I think you're a clown and I don't know of anyone who doesn't. So be true to your word for a change and get lost, will you?

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 21:11:33 (GMT)
From: shp
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: So YOU are the Voice of this Forum? Not!
Message:
Jim spewed - I mean said:
Do you feel welcome here? Because I can assure you, you're not.

shp: You can say with certainty that YOU do not welcome me, that's it, plus anyone who has told you but has not told me yet.

Jim: Now you'v made a point of saying you won't stick around if you're not welcome. Was that just a lie? Because if it wasn't, you should get lost. You're NOT wanted here, not at all.

shp: Do you actually win court cases with arguments like this? You must come here to practice, and I advise you to keep practicing...alot. I will work with you. Wax on, wax off, bullshit on, bullshit off.

Jim: You're a very, very stupid person, Shp.

shp: Coming from you, that is a compliment. Gotta think about that one? Take your time. I needed some amusement, thanks for the break.

Jim: You say the dumbest things I ever hear here.*

shp: *....that you ever 'hear here'? Now THAT'S dumb!
Advice: Skip posts with my handle on them, that'll save you alot of grief and scotch too probably, and thus your liver. So I am trying to help you out here, hear? (Now you got me doing it!)

Jim: Personally, I think you're a clown and I don't know of anyone who doesn't.

shp: Peer group pressure, engineered or otherwise will get you abso-fricking-lutely nowhere.

Jim: So be true to your word for a change and get lost, will you?
shp: I never said never. And I bet you a dollar I am more true to my word than you, so keep your own doorstep clean, counselor.

shp says:
From past experience, unless you have significantly changed and grown - which is unlikely in a case such yours - I knew it would only be a matter of time before you struck. You made an initial pass yesterday about the new age balloon thing, and you did not draw any blood. So now you are coming at me head on to try to push me off this site as if you have the right or the authority, as if you are the Voice of the Forum. If I were an ex-premie here who was dialogging with shp and you came along and spoke for me without my say, I'd tell you to take your keyobard and polish it up real nice and sweet and shove it up your candy ass, premie or ex-premie notwithstanding. Woops, been watching too much of the Rock on WWF with the boys. Hope this doesn't constitute a 'flame' or anything. If it does, I am really, really sorry. If it doesn't, then you can do it twice just to remember it real good.

So Jim, remember. When you see the initials 'shp', just keep on cruising get a (verbal) bruising, or be ignored for losing.

I learned most of the tactics you used on me in this post in eighth grade debate class. Really, Jim.

essaychpeeeeeeeeeee

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 21:36:10 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: shp
Subject: Hey, don't take my word for it, ask around
Message:
Shp,

I'm just joining in on the apparently unanimous distaste people have for your stupidity here. Why won't you answer my question? Do you feel welcome here? Welcome by who? What has anyone ever said to sutggest that? And did you not say just the other day that you wouldn't stay otherwise?

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Jun 26, 2000 at 00:16:15 (GMT)
From: shp
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Hey, don't take my word for it, ask around
Message:
Shp,

I'm just joining in on the apparently unanimous distaste people have for your stupidity here. Why won't you answer my question? Do you feel welcome here? Welcome by who? What has anyone ever said to sutggest that? And did you not say just the other day that you wouldn't stay otherwise?

Jim,

I think a real bad level of hell would be dying and coming back as soembody you have authority over. God help them.
I did not know that being welcome as you define it is a prerequisite to come here. And your use of 'stupidity' is like a brutish hammer trying to just beat me down. In reply to your stupid remarks, BWAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHA! (Hope I spelled it right)
Do you welcome any premies here? Do any of them feel welcome? So either change your 'welcome mat' which is your intro page or stop being a hypocrite. Or don't...no skin off my back.

With your style and technique, have you thought of running for political office?

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Jun 26, 2000 at 06:50:14 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: shp
Subject: Shp, I can answer your questions
Message:
You asked if any premies are welcome here. Sure, Shp, of course they are. But there comes a time, doesn't there, where one's welcome can be exhausted, no? Yours was a long, long time ago.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Jun 26, 2000 at 14:38:22 (GMT)
From: shp
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Shp, I can answer your questions
Message:
Jim said:
You asked if any premies are welcome here. Sure, Shp, of course they are. But there comes a time, doesn't there, where one's welcome can be exhausted, no? Yours was a long, long time ago.

Shp says:
Premies are welcome here under the following conditions:
1) they receive your training materials and
2) they complete your training and
3) they renounce Maharaji
4) in your timeframe

If not, they are unwelcome. Since I don't digest in your enzymes, you want to spit me out. So do it. But you do not speak for everyone, just yourself and whoever else signs on with you.

Yeah, you can say you have premie friends, some of your best friends are premies, etc. Talk about 'new age'...

Actually, if I was subject to flattery, I'd be flattered that you have taken the time to focus on me. But since I am not subject to flattery, I can only surmise that you have a harder time dealing with me than the average premie. I don't fit your prefabricated definition of a premie, and therefore I upset your little universe, don't I?

Why do I even waste my time? I know your M.O. by now and have learned from the past not to tangle on your terms. B'bye.
And while you have been hacking away the same old way, guess what? People have been changing around you.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Jun 26, 2000 at 16:26:45 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: shp
Subject: But, as usual, you can't answer mine
Message:
I've asked you twice now if you thought you were welcome here. As in, 'Shp, do you think you're welcome here?' And I did so only because you posted the other day that you wouldn't stick around if you weren't. Well, I say you're not. What do you say to that?

Fact is, as usual, you're afraid to deal with the issue squarely. Really, what birdbrains you premies can be!

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Jun 26, 2000 at 17:40:29 (GMT)
From: shp
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Can't and won't are two different animals, Jimmy.
Message:
Jim expounded:
I've asked you twice now if you thought you were welcome here. As in, 'Shp, do you think you're welcome here?' And I did so only because you posted the other day that you wouldn't stick around if you weren't. Well, I say you're not. What do you say to that?

shp retorts:
Nya nya nya nya nya! I don't HAVE to answer you! You can make anything out of that your bloated ego desires. Just because I don't choose to wander into YOUR monkey trap and grab the trinket of your Q & A, YOU get all pissy. I know from my professional experience as do you that whoever asks the questions controls the conversation. Do you think you are the only one who knows these things? And from past experience, I don't trust you to control a conversation in which I am participating.

Having said all that, I will say that I definitely don't feel welcome by YOU, which is where YOUR business begins and ends with regard to me and my presence here.

Jim spewed:
Fact is, as usual, you're afraid to deal with the issue squarely. Really, what birdbrains you premies can be!

shp yawns and flicks back:
Please refer to previous reponse.
Birdbrains indeed....Tweety hasn't been eaten by Sylvester yet.
Thufferin thuccotash, eh Jim?

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Jun 26, 2000 at 01:20:47 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: shp
Subject: sandy, it's not *jim's* to change
Message:
You know it's not's jim's intro to jim's page, so what gives? He's just one guy here, another poster among many. I thought you wanted to be concise.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Jun 26, 2000 at 01:38:29 (GMT)
From: shp
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: reply
Message:
You know it's not's jim's intro to jim's page, so what gives? He's just one guy here, another poster among many. I thought you wanted to be concise.

If you think it's OK to allow members of your organization to trash your agreed upon intro and welcome without busting those members for it, no matter who they may be, then I'd be real nervous to let your kids play in my house. You let certain strongbrains rule despite the agreements posted. Think about it for a minute please before you respond. You have a big overgrown spoiled rotten kid with a law degree running around here pissing on your own front door welcome mat. He's your problem, not mine.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Jun 26, 2000 at 01:52:36 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: shp
Subject: Jeez, sandy, you're giving us flakes a bad name...
Message:
first, there is NO ORGANIZATION. Just a loose group of posters here, that's all. The FA's are volunteers and they rotate the duty so no one person gets stuck doing janitor service for too long. So there's no ''members'' to ''bust.'' NO WPC, no ''security,'' so relax. You're as welcome here as anyone else. The only rules are against threats and using too many different handles. This isn't divine light mission for godsake.

You say Jim is 'my' problem, not 'yours.' Well, the opposite is true. YOU think about it. You've had a problem with Jim before. Take your own advice and don't read his posts if they upset you. You're a smart guy, you can deal with it.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Jun 26, 2000 at 15:06:11 (GMT)
From: shp
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: reply
Message:
gerry responded:
first, there is NO ORGANIZATION. Just a loose group of posters here, that's all. The FA's are volunteers and they rotate the duty so no one person gets stuck doing janitor service for too long. So there's no ''members'' to ''bust.'' NO WPC, no
''security,'' so relax. You're as welcome here as anyone else. The only rules are against threats and using too many different handles. This isn't divine light mission for godsake.

shp says:
I am relaxed. I am not freaky about 'organization' as you characterized me. Loose group or lockstep, you are still an organization, and that's a fact. May I suggest a more encompassing definition of what you do not allow here to include someone with a God-of-the-Forum complex mouthing off and pretending to be speaking for anyone else but themselves?

ger:
You say Jim is 'my' problem, not 'yours.' Well, the opposite is true. YOU think about it. You've had a problem with Jim before. Take your own advice and don't read his posts if they upset you. You're a smart guy, you can deal with it

shp:
Being eternally hopeful has its drawbacks, like continuing to read Jim's posts even though I pretty much know what's waiting for me. Your point here is well taken. In ignoring Jim's posts,
I have to let go of some of my hope. But I must agree with you.
The only tweak I would give it is that he has had problems with me, and alot of other folks too from what I have gathered, not the other way around.

If I had a drunken (with scotch or just power) person banging around my house hassling guests, I'd take him aside and ask him to put a lid on it....even if he had a good heart underneath it all and was really trying to do the right thing. That's just me. I am a guest here and I must accept things as they are or not come around. You got that right.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 01:00:35 (GMT)
From: shp
Email: None
To: hamzen
Subject: been down this road before, but not with you...
Message:
OK, if you are going to get shitty with me the dialog is over.
Stick your new-age cynical namecalling signs on somebody else, your words in somebody else's mouth and as for your judgements, put them on a little post-it on your mirror so you can see them when you brush your teeth. Or else back off and don't make negative assumptions. And don't forget to rinse.

There ought to be another premie along any time now....go for it.
Or have mutual respect and we can continue.

shp

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 06:12:31 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: shp
Subject: Get lost, you big new age balloon
Message:
You're like a blimp, Shp.

Bye.....

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 15:51:05 (GMT)
From: shp
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: like a blimp
Message:
Jim,

so I am a bag of helium that allows you to have a higher view of things, whereas you are a bag of hot air which isn't good for much to me on this hot day.

anyway, happy belated summer solsitce. I will put a crystal on my alter for you.

sandyji your new age brother

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 16:03:15 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: shp
Subject: howdy sheeperoonee
Message:
Just wanted to say hey, willie.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 17:31:25 (GMT)
From: shp
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: yeah right all you wanted to do was say howdy...
Message:
...and I suppose you have a really swell bridge for sale at a great price you've been saving just for me.

If all you wanted to truly do was say howdy, you would not have resurrected your sheeptrip and played it on me. Let's not bullshit each other, OK?

I mean if I really wanted to, I could do alot of shit with your name too. But that's not what I'm about. Vibes don't lie and they do pass through words and cyberspace. So don't bullshit me, create karma for yourself by lying, and insult the intelligence of anyone reading this for content and not cheap thrills.

You were saying...?

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 19:12:00 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: shp
Subject: Nice to hear from ya, sandy...
Message:
So how are things going? How's the family? We are fine. The weather's beautiful and we had a chance to get out to the coast a bit. Well, gotta go now. The grass is getting longer by the minute...
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 19:37:17 (GMT)
From: shp
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Nice to hear from you too, gerry...
Message:
gerry: So how are things going? How's the family? We are fine. The weather's beautiful and we had a chance to get out to the coast a bit. Well, gotta go now. The grass is getting longer by the minute...

shp: things are going, the family's fine, weather's great out
here too, and unless you are about to mow the lawn, you are still bullshitting me.

Who are you entertaining here beside yourself? Certainly not me.
So you got the words a bit more diplomatic this time around but as I said before, and as sure as grass grows longer by the minute, vibes don't lie.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 19:49:03 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: shp
Subject: It's downright hot
Message:
Yes, I'm cutting grass today and since I'm on a half acre, hilly and course, it's quite a challenge. So I take a lotta breaks.

You're in Ohio, right?

And about the vibes, I can't control that, it's all up to you, it's your perception and your 'vibe,' Sandy.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 22:17:23 (GMT)
From: Joey
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Mowing the grass...Joey's tips ::))
Message:
Hey gerry,

You can save yourself a whole lot of mowing by just doing the following.

1)Kill half your grass.
2)Let the other half grow long.
3)Then every once in a while, all you'll have to do...is a comb- over :::)))

Stay cool, man.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 22:35:06 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Joey
Subject: Joey's tips... LOL thanks, Joey
Message:
Jeez and I was expecting...get a goat. I did think about getting a llama once. But I heard the cougars just love em...
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 20:12:07 (GMT)
From: shp
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: back o' your neck getting dirty and gritty?
Message:
gerry: Yes, I'm cutting grass today and since I'm on a half acre, hilly and course, it's quite a challenge. So I take a lotta breaks.

shp: What kind of mower do you have? And where are you again?

gerry: You're in Ohio, right?

shp: New Jersey

gerry: And about the vibes, I can't control that, i it's all up to you, it's your perception and your 'vibe,' Sandy.

shp: come on gerry. I was born a 6:00 am, but not this morning.
Use sunscreen and drink plenty of H20. And be grateful you have a piece of this beautiful earth to hang out on, if you don't already. My backyard is a parking lot.

shp

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 20:49:47 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: shp
Subject: Oh the mower...
Message:
One of those piece of shit Sears deals that has power propulsion at least.

And I'm in beautiful McCleary, Washington, right across the strait from Jim.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Jun 26, 2000 at 15:13:23 (GMT)
From: shp
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: zoyza
Message:
ger said:
And I'm in beautiful McCleary, Washington, right across the strait from Jim.

shp says:
In this case the grass does sound greener on your side of the fence, literally and geographically speaking.

As for ways to minimize your mowing, have you ever heard of
'zoyza'? It's a grass that creeps and stays low, and I think they use it on golf course fairways. Maybe you could plug your lawn with zoyza plugs, and it could eventually choke out the long stuff and make your life a bit easier. Check it out.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 20:20:28 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: shp
Subject: No sandy I really like talking with you
Message:
sorry about the parking lot.

Actually I'm sipping a Rolling Rock, although I'm not supposed to drink any alcohol. What the heck, life's short, right?

And I keep myself well lubed re sunscreen.

Hey you say anything you want. I'm in one of those 'don't give a damn' moods/ Live and let live, que sera sera, Come see come saw the world, eh Brite? Wrong, burt. (Guess who wrote those lyrics)

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Jun 24, 2000 at 04:37:38 (GMT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: shp
Subject: People/language/lots of chances for social truth
Message:
It is such a wonderful thing as free will to have the choice and the power to formulate and express yourself as you have done.

Actually, I'm just a bunch of molecules reacting and responding in the manner that my genes have shaped me according to the environment they had to work with. Oddly, it doesn't trouble me in the slightest to feel that way. Maybe because the truth has an endearing quality to it, no matter how harsh it may seem.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 01:19:05 (GMT)
From: shp
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: People/language/lots of chances for social truth
Message:
Hey Jer,

First, congratulations on having your Genome Book of Life revealed and all your parts identified, you big beautiful mass of molecules!!!!

Actually, I'm just a bunch of molecules reacting and responding in the manner that my genes have shaped me according to the environment they had to work with. Oddly, it doesn't trouble me in the slightest to feel that way. Maybe because the truth has an
endearing quality to it, no matter how harsh it may seem. -jerry

I agree that if something is true, harsh or smooth, it does have an enduring quality. But I'd rather lay on silk than nails though. And I'd rather walk on grass than hot coals. Been there, done that. You catch more flies with honey than vinegar and a spoonful of sugar makes the medicine go down in a most delightful way. Hell and brimstone went out 2000 years ago.

Q: What did the masochist say to the sadist?
A: Beat me!
Q: What did the sadist reply?
A: No.

And once again, all together now,
If the head is like the control panel of a car, and you say the experience of driving (metaphor for life) and all that goes with it is in the control panel (yer haid), that kind of ignores the fact that without the arc jumping between the point and the plug, your control panel won't even light up, let alone allow you to operate your vehikle.

Care to continue?

shp

ps where did all the molecules that are you come from? what sustains them/you? where did the matter that the molecules are made of come from? same about the genes, and don't tell me you got them at Macy's on sale. which molecule is your head? the one with the eyes? geez, it's all so tiny....I don't know if I'm lookin' at yer face or yer arse. Help me out here, Molecule Man!

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 01:29:09 (GMT)
From: shp
Email: None
To: jerry
Subject: okokok read this jerry...what a flash!
Message:
okokok, so you are a mass of molecules, moleculeman.
and somebody else says no I am proton man and somebody else says no I am neutron man and somebody else says no I am atom man and somebody else says no I am neutrinoman and somebody else says no the most minutest particleman and somebody else says no I am lightman....because that is what the geniuses are getting when they are splitting the smallest particles of matter, great quantities of light and energy.

so moleculeman, time for a makeover. you are really LIGHT just like the rest of us.

'For God is LIGHT, and there is no darkness in Him. That is who you are a molecule of and that is your source. Ineffable. Beyond words. But here we are. Got a Light? Smoke 'em if ya got 'em. See ya in a few. Next set in twenty minutes.
thankuverrymuch.

shine on brother.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 21:17:16 (GMT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: shp
Subject: You crack me up
Message:
Sandy,

Sure, you can break us down to our basic components, whatever they are. Science seems to be discovering new ones every day. But why do we have to even go there? It's beyond the realm of our consciousness when we get into the world of the very small. We're macro-organisms, not micro ones, and much debate is going on about the micro world, and what it's really made of, and to be perfectly honest, I don't really understand it. I'm not a physicist, and I find their work very confusing for the most part. But I do know that the the large built upon the small, and the small built upon the tiny, and the tiny built upon the micro. You can't break us down to our basic components and say that's who we are. Remember the elephant? What is it, a trunk or big floppy ears? It's both. The same with us. We're a conglomerate of all our parts. All the molecules in our bodies, separate by themselves, do not make us who we are, but together, they do. And that's what makes us who we are, the whole of our parts... Lightman.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Jun 23, 2000 at 22:04:19 (GMT)
From: Daneane
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: Kierkagaard
Message:
Was the big wig on 'leap of faith'.

Kant was more interested in defining the possibility of the thing in itself, not delineating mind and brain.

Heidegger appealed more to a leap back to Being, to a less anaytical analysis of the possibility of a priori thought.

Both had a idealistic slant though, and why the hell not, they were german philosophers afterall.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Jun 24, 2000 at 04:28:53 (GMT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Daneane
Subject: Kierkagaard
Message:
You might be right about Kierkagaard, Daneane, but I could swear I read in an introductory book on Heidegger that he was the one who advocated taking a leap of faith. And I am taking my gingko biloba religiously. It's supposed to work wonders for the memory, you know.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Jun 24, 2000 at 04:49:24 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: Kierkagaard
Message:
I vote Kierkegaard (Soren with the slash through the 'o' so definitely Danish, I believe, not German). 'Leap of faith' is one of my favourite concepts. I bet you could have guessed that one, Jerry! ;-) Couldn't put my hands on the text right now but . . .

Stonor the half-Dane and not particularly 'material girl'

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Jun 24, 2000 at 14:09:04 (GMT)
From: Daneane
Email: None
To: Stonor
Subject: Kierkagaard
Message:
I dunno what Big Bad Soren is..just that he's a dead white guy. I was referring to the other guys, Heidegger & Kant as the Germans.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Jun 24, 2000 at 14:25:49 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: Daneane
Subject: KierkEgaard
Message:
Absolutely right, Daneane - you did not refer to Kiekegaard as a German - my apologies. But when I read over yours and Jerry's posts, they still confuse me a bit.

And Jerry, I'm not sure that Kierkegaard 'advocated' a leap of faith, but described his own choice in this way.

Stonor

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 00:27:43 (GMT)
From: Encyclopedia Brittannica
Email: None
To: Stonor
Subject: KierkEgaard
Message:
leap of faith

metaphor used by the 19th-century
Danish philosopher Søren
Kierkegaard in his Afsluttende
uvidenskabelig Efterskrift
(1846; Concluding Unscientific
Postscript) to describe commitment
to an objective uncertainty,
specifically to the Christian God.
For Kierkegaard, God is totally...

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 02:58:09 (GMT)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Daneane
Subject: Blue ROdeo--special note to Daneane
Message:
Didn't he Kierkegaard--also say that if jesus really was God than that changes everything????

Trying to remember the philosophy book we read in book club 'Sophie's World'--
So many of those philosophies were so damn abstract. Reading 'COrelli's Mandolin' now--it's funny! ANyone read it?
Daneane, I am lovign the Blue ROdeo tapes! 'Head Over Hills' and 'Second SOn' are my favorites. Thanks again, they are good company on the beltway each day.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 19:48:05 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Helen
Subject: Blue ROdeo--I like them too!
Message:
Hi Helen. Just felt like saying hi.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 20:57:20 (GMT)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Selene/daneane
Subject: like, totally off topic, dudes!
Message:
Hey Selene and Daneane! (hey yer names rhyme!) Selene, how did you hear about Blue Rodeo? Daneane sent me some tapes which I am really enjoying. Head Over Hills is just about the sexiest song I have ever heard--basically a song about being horny and longing for his girlfriend . Whoo hoo! oh, and Daneane, that song 'Try' is hot hot hot too!! WHoo hoo! Makes me feel young and frisky agin, it shore do!

Selene, how's the heat out there? It's been yer typical scorching humid sultry stuff here in the DC area. Gotta hit the pool every day or ferget it. I think I have finally gotten used to it though.

greetings to you west coast ladies . Any other music you all know that is in the same vein, would love to hear about it.
Helen

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Jun 26, 2000 at 02:38:51 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: Helen
Subject: like, totally off topic, dudes!
Message:
I want some info!!! Who sings Try and the other song? Who is Blue Rodeo? Music is MY hobbie...Thanks.

I have good music in that line.I have to make you a cassette Helen...I'm not promising soon, soon though

SB

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Jun 27, 2000 at 00:20:58 (GMT)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: SB
Subject: like, totally off topic, dudes!
Message:
Girl, you and me both --soon means a couple months from now--but HEY gary went to the post office today. Bless his heart, I would be a flibbertygibbet without that man! WOuld love to hear some music--have been introduced to some good music and literature hanging out here!
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Jun 27, 2000 at 00:26:58 (GMT)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: SB
Subject: SB
Message:
Sorry about that other post--location and all =:-0 I am so sorry!
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Jun 26, 2000 at 03:32:37 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: Helen
Subject: I found them. Thanks. nt
Message:
nt
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Jun 26, 2000 at 03:14:52 (GMT)
From: Daneane
Email: None
To: SB
Subject: like, totally off topic, dudes!
Message:
About the music of Canadian band Blue Rodeo, I say only,
'The air is not complete without their music in it.'

The songs 'Try' and 'Head Over Hills' are theirs. And I make tapes for anyone who shows the slightest bit of interest. I am just funny that way.
-dg

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Jun 26, 2000 at 03:47:53 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: Daneane
Subject: like, totally off topic, dudes!
Message:
I just downloaded them from Napster and I like them...he has a sweet voice. Have you heard Lisa Stansfield's song, Time To Make You Mine?
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 22:26:30 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Helen
Subject: musician husband
Message:
is how I found BR, I think. Explains a lot about me actually but this is most likely not the forum for more on that :) :)
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 05:00:25 (GMT)
From: Daneane
Email: None
To: Helen
Subject: Blue ROdeo--(OT)
Message:
Another one falls for Jim Cuddy first. That's all right. One of my favourite lines is in that song 'Head over Hills'...you can probably relate...'I've been torn apart and put back together with a couple of pieces in wrong'.

I dunno much about Kierfdjargargu'fd. I read mostly German philosophers. Don't know much about them either really.

Maybe you should just ask me more about Blue Rodeo. 27 days.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Jun 23, 2000 at 08:37:04 (GMT)
From: hamzen
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: FA's, premieish calming week once a month?
Message:
as in traffic calming. Just thought how nice it would be to get away from them for a week a month, you know, like an exes away day for the net.

I guess it would be horrendously difficult to arrange??

The first three days of every month say, even that would get my vote.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Jun 23, 2000 at 22:26:32 (GMT)
From: sean
Email: None
To: hamzen
Subject: bye!
Message:
Wouldn't you be happier if the premies just stayed away completely? Well, you just got your wish, at least from me :-)
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Jun 24, 2000 at 12:43:36 (GMT)
From: hamzen
Email: None
To: sean
Subject: Not at all
Message:
It's just a bit tiring going through such a ridiculous non-communication mode over & over.

Nice to have a break from satsang mode though and party a bit don't you think. Sean, if I remember rightly, you're aware of being a visitor, and I would say you're in a very small minority of the premies who visit here who would even think of it, let alone acknowledge it.

Also discussion about reality models are fascinating, because they expose the underlying reality assumptions in peoples beliefs. Personally think these dialogues are crucial for waverers and followers with doubts, as well as new timers.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Jun 23, 2000 at 21:02:40 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: fitzroy@liverpool.ac.uk
To: hamzen
Subject: FA's, premieish calming week once a month?
Message:
I always thought that the best way to keep premies away would be to ignore them. Simply don't answer any of their posts - they'd soon get bored. Unfortunately, I don't think you could get everybody doing this all at the same time, but three days a month they just might. Worth a try?

But I like your idea, too. Perhaps there should just be one week per month when they ARE allowed to post.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Jun 24, 2000 at 07:14:12 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: I like YOUR idea Nigel
Message:
I read very few and every time I do I end up in what we call in programming an 'endless loop' In other words someone started a looping through and forgot to put in an end statement.
And their posts are all the same anyway. Not like you can't tune
in next week and get the same shit.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Jun 24, 2000 at 12:38:23 (GMT)
From: hamzen
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: Yeah but NigelanSelene, it verifies what they are
Message:
saying, to waverers who are lurking, if it goes unchallenged, that's apart from the facvt that they are leaving their muddy footprints all over the carpets and don't even apologize, rudeness that again demands to be challenged.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Jun 24, 2000 at 16:57:33 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: hamzen
Subject: that is true. I leave it to others ...
Message:
To tell em to shut the damned door they don't live in a barn wipe their feet, etc.
I'm SO tired of confrontation with them ham. but I think it would be cool to just have them shut up sometimes. But wasn't there an ex's only forum? or isn't there? I never go/went there so I am not sure of the status but it seemed like a good idea. Just not for me. I'm weird, like to see if every once in a million there is someone out there who sincerely is struggling and wants support to help 'exit'. I'm usually duped, and end up feeling stupid but oh well, that is my nature to try with people.
ps answered your other thread below, you and Jethro are nuts (in a cool way)
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 13:25:19 (GMT)
From: JohnT
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: that is true. I leave it to others ...
Message:
me! me! Let me at those premie deadbrain frozenhearts spouting their deluded propaganda for a filthy fraud! Don't you DARE shut out those premies! Have you no humanity? - where'd I go huntin' for fresh fools?

But hey, it's your forum.

Respect.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 18:45:32 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: JohnT
Subject: huh? hi JohnT
Message:
It's not my forum. I just visit here. Too much!
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Jun 24, 2000 at 20:42:10 (GMT)
From: Joey
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: that is true. I leave it to others ...
Message:
I'm weird, like to see if every once in a million there is someone out there who sincerely is struggling and wants support to help 'exit'. I'm usually duped, and end up feeling stupid but oh well, that is my nature to try with people.

Hey Selenie,

You helped me.

What more could you possibly want?? ::)))

Luv ya,

Joey

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Jun 24, 2000 at 20:50:54 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Joey
Subject: hey thanks!
Message:
I do remember your early postings and me helping. A lot of others did too for both of us.
And, oddly enough it got weird for both of us. I have noticed that. oh well. my newest along with
if you don't have any expectations you won't be disappointed IS
gotta take the bad with the good. Hope you are ok. I'm doing really well lately. believe it or not!!
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Jun 24, 2000 at 20:58:34 (GMT)
From: Joey
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: you're welcome!
Message:
I'm doing really well lately. believe it or not!!

Of course I believe it. (Why shouldn't I ??)

And you deserve it, too.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Jun 23, 2000 at 12:51:42 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: hamzen
Subject: I like that!! My support is yours
Message:
FA, please!!!!
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Jun 23, 2000 at 06:00:55 (GMT)
From: Oliver
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Satellite Slush Fund
Message:
Donation proceeds at satellite events must be a touch inadequate around here of late. I was contacted by an EV volunteer by phone and asked whether I would like to participate in sponsoring the next satellite broadcast. My reply was immediate and brief so I have no other details to pass on. Is this happening anywhere else?
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Jun 23, 2000 at 09:42:16 (GMT)
From: Pizza Hut
Email: cheesetomato@home.com
To: Oliver
Subject: Satellite Slush Fund
Message:
Well, we'll gladly sponsor the next broadcast. All we want is for Maharaji to eat one of our new Italiano Pepperoni specials and drink a bottle of free soft drink in front of the camera and say how good it is and we'll have the cheque in the post, pronto!
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Jun 23, 2000 at 16:23:34 (GMT)
From: Walt Disney
Email: None
To: Pizza Hut
Subject: Satellite Slush Fund
Message:
We've contacted M also, and hope to secure a contract with him any day now. Keep your eyes open. It might appear on your TV after a satellite broadcast in the near future. It will go like this:

Disney spokesperson: 'Hey, Maharaji, now that you're the one and only living perfect master, what are you going to do now?

Maharaji: 'I'm going to Disney World!'

Eh? What do you think? Maybe we can do some kind of joint venture, where he says it with his mouth full, a slice of pizza in one hand and a pepsi in the other. I'll have my people call your people to work it out. What do you say?

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Jun 23, 2000 at 16:47:17 (GMT)
From: Pizza Hut
Email: None
To: Walt Disney
Subject: Satellite Slush Fund
Message:
We insist that Maharaji wears the Micky Mouse costume while flaunting his (patent pending) Micky Mouse watch. We also want Raja Ji dressed as Goofy, doing acrobatics in the background.

Then it's a deal.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Jun 23, 2000 at 17:22:53 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Pizza Hut
Subject: I'm sure he has no shortage of watches
Message:
to choose from. creep that he is.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Jun 23, 2000 at 06:08:18 (GMT)
From: Greg Hall
Email: Horse 4 Barrier 8
To: Oliver
Subject: Satellite Slush Fund
Message:
Where do you live?
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Jun 23, 2000 at 14:36:33 (GMT)
From: Gregg
Email: binduesque@yahoo.com
To: Greg Hall
Subject: This isn't the Greg Hall from Hawaii, is it? (nt)
Message:
x
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Jun 23, 2000 at 09:17:17 (GMT)
From: Oliver
Email: Mussellbrook R8 No2
To: Greg Hall
Subject: Satellite Slush Fund
Message:
Nowhere near you mate. How are you going riding those pommy horses? Ridden a winner yet?
I remember backing Merlene when you won the Golden Slipper despite almost knocking half the field down. Great work! What was it? $50,000 fine and six month suspension?
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Jun 23, 2000 at 12:54:42 (GMT)
From: Too much!!
Email: None
To: all
Subject: Yesterday's Satellite
Message:
Yesterday there was another satellite event????? Whow, Lard is getting some money!! I HATE HIM

SB

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Jun 23, 2000 at 03:43:32 (GMT)
From: Keith
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: I ,me and myself(and you too)
Message:
We are all imperfect. Right? WE all have our strengths and weaknesses. Right? We
all have unique personalities,humours,beliefs,preferences,idiosycracies,ways of trying
to express ourselves. We are individuals. Katie got me thinking about myself. Am I
too this? Am I like that? Is my personality too something or other? Should I be more
humble? The whole nine inches(variation on a theme!).
Then as I was driving back from the country, it hit me. It didn't even need a beer. It
didn't need to repeat itself three times. (just jesting again Jim) Keith..the voice
said,(didn't call me an arsehole either), Keith, it is all a matter of personal perception
and inclination. Sure we can all benifit from a little stern introspection at times. Sure
we can look at what others have to say about ourselves or anything else. And be
modified by that. But at the end of the 'road' you only have yourself. Keith, how do
you really feel about yourself?
Generally, I said to this voice,I like who I am. I like my passion. I like my personality
most of the time. I'm reasonably happy with the size of my penis. And my life seems
to be on the improve. I like that I do care about others. Humans. Animals. Trees.
Bees. Fleas ? I've got my reservations. Like I said I'm not perfect. Nor are any of you. I
accept that. I like how I try to contribute to this forum in ways that I feel good about. I
make blunders. Biggies at times. But I always try to express honestly. I like that I
often try to support the downtrodden. And stand up to what I perceive as bullying
behavior. I like my 'rubberiness'. That I am eclectic and many faceted. I like that I can
reveal myself like this , despite the probability that some others are going to think I'm
so up myself, and yet still not hold back. I like that I can face my fears.
Alright,alright, enough already!! One last word. Please. I like that I can feel
love(WHICH MEANS A LOT OF DIFFERENT THINGS FOR ME) in my life.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Jun 23, 2000 at 16:25:39 (GMT)
From: Elaine
Email: None
To: Keith
Subject: Keith -posted you below :) NT
Message:
OM
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Jun 23, 2000 at 09:39:20 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Keith
Subject: and with that...
Message:
...Keith began to merge into his navel. The five petalled lotus opened and swallowed him up. He had finally left the world behind and broken through the barrier to eternity. An outside observer would have been shocked to see it. Keith seemed to turn inside out. First his head disappeared into his stomach, then his shoulders. He pulled his feet up, looking like he was going to sit in the lotus position, but they contiued to move upwards, following the top of his body into the navel cave of eternal mysteries.

Finally, all that was left of Keiths earthly remains was a small, knotty, lulp of skin, about the size of a golf ball.

It lay on the side of the road for a day or two, baking in the sun and showering in the rain, until eventually a dog sniffed it, liked the vibration and swallowed it in a gulp.

And so Keith began the next step of his spiritual journey...

Anth the navel gazer (but I only look at other people's navels)

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Jun 23, 2000 at 19:59:05 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: AJW et al.
Subject: a picture's worth ...
Message:
The five petalled lotus opened and swallowed him up.

click here

On second thoughts, without your words Anth, this picture would be worth a lot less.

Ca va, mon vieux?

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Jun 26, 2000 at 10:37:48 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: ca va bien merci
Message:
Hi Chris,

so that's where the thousand petalled lotus is hidden.

Anth in the dark

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Jun 26, 2000 at 18:28:27 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: U too need an enlightenment re-certification test
Message:
U too need an enlightenment re-certification test

ENLIGHTENMENT
RECERTIFICATION TEST
(to Celebrate the Solstice)

(courtesy of http://www.ramalila.net/LightenUp/lightenup.html)

1) Yin and . . . .
A) Yout
B) Tonic
C) Yenta
D) Yang

2. A Zen koan is . . . .
A) Jewish Buddhist
B) All of the above
C) None of the above
D) None of the above

3. Just before total God-realization I would see . . . .
A) A blue pearl
B) Nothing
C) Everything
D) How would I know?

4. Lao-Tsu is . . . .
A) Shrimp with fried rice
B) The Atman Brothers
C) A Japanese word for sneeze
D) One of the above

5. Jivatman and Atman merge to become . . . .
A)Jivatmanatman
B) The Atman Brothers
C) Jivatman & Atman Inc.
D) Mr. & Mrs. Atman

6. The word or words which best describes the relationship of
God, Guru and Self is:
A) Oneness
B) Twoness
C) Penpalness
D) Just good friends

7. Which of the following is not a name of the Lord?
A) Jehova
B) Elohim
C) Yahweh
D) Charlton Heston

8. If you swap a Swami with a Yogi you get . . . .
A) A Swogi
B) A Salami
C) Yogurt
D) Heartburn

9. Carlos Castaneda is:
A) A Flamingo dancer
B) A resort near San Juan
C) The 2nd baseman for the LA Dodgers
D) The guitarist for Santana

10. Om Mani Padme Om means:
A) O manny, pardon my home
B) Money talks, nobody walks in
C) If u cn rd ths msg u cn Gt a gd jb
D) Sanskrit for, 'Never having to say you're sorry.'

11. The sound of one hand clapping is:
A) Very quiet
B) Similar to smiling with one lip
C) A Zen record shop
D) Like the 'p' in swimming

12. Linguine is to fettucine as kundalini is to:
A) Eenie meenie
B) Halloweenie
C) Harry Houdini
D) Pepto Bismol (this is a silly answer)

13. The Tao Te Ching is:
A) The new premier of China
B) A new record by Cheech and Chong
C) I Ching's older brother
D) A massage parlor in Tokyo

14. You arrive at a party and your host says, 'Far out, I want
to take the responsibility for creating space in your universe so
you can experience your experience.' He means:
A) 'Have a good time.'
B) 'Don't eat the Sweedish Meatballs.'
C) 'I just completed EST training.'
D) Nothing anyone would understand.

15. If three devotees can meditate for a total of nine hours,
how many devotees would it take to mow the lawn?

16. If three devotees can mow the lawn in one hour, how many
stoned devotees would it take to meditate until nobody cared?

17. If shakti was rising toward the fourth chakra at a rate of 3.5
pranayamas per second, and at the same time an energy force
was traveling in the opposite direction at a rate of 4.8
pranayamas per second, what time would it be in Chicago if we
woke up in Los Angeles?

TRUE/FALSE

______ Ramakrishna is a cereal made with rice and maple flavoring.
_______ Satori is better than nirvana and samadhi except on weekends and
holidays.
_______ Sufi dancing is like square dancing only rounder.
_______ The Tibetan Book of the Dead is a novel by Harold Robbins.

++++++++


SCORE:
0-5 POINTS: You are hopelessly attached to the wheel of life and death.
Try again next incarnation!
6-10 POINTS: You are largely unconscious and stuck in worldly
pleasures.
10-15 POINTS: You are so-so on the enlightenment scale. Keep reading
the New Sun.
15-20 POINTS: You are a very conscious being; with a little good karma
you could go a long way.
20-25 POINTS: You are very close to God!

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Jun 23, 2000 at 14:35:18 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: could it have been a datura blossom??
Message:
It might explain the rooster in the coffee shop.
but only to me perhaps.
Selene, insomnia?
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Jun 23, 2000 at 23:54:50 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: OT
Message:
Do you really have insomnia?
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Jun 24, 2000 at 00:12:29 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: SB
Subject: hi SB oh yes indeed I have insomnia
Message:
But when I talk about the soluttions:
in other words meds:
i get this sarcastic shit from one Jim Heller thrown at me.
so I am more reluctant than usual to talk.
Which... hahahahha is not much :
Last night I did not sleep at all I don't think. If i did it was
one of those weird 'Am I awake or asleep get the blankets right' things all night.
And that doesn't count.
The only thing that has given me normal sleep in 3 years
is a major tranq called Seroquel with supposedly no side effects.

funny thing about that. After 2 months on it I started getting periods every 3 weeks and they said to me 'oh your hormones are at a 30 year old level. This is happening because of the Seroquel.'
God it is such a fucking crap shoot dealing with doctors.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Jun 24, 2000 at 00:21:38 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: I would like to....
Message:
discuss this with you! Is very important. Please get my new email address with Katie? Please do!

Love,

SB

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Jun 24, 2000 at 01:14:39 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: SB
Subject: ok I will ....
Message:
Thanks SB I'll be in touch. stay tuned.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Jun 24, 2000 at 20:52:45 (GMT)
From: ps selene again
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: ok I will .... ok I did hope I got it right
Message:
Your email I mean. I did respond. Thanks SB for being here.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Jun 24, 2000 at 21:00:22 (GMT)
From: Selene again!!
Email: selene@ocean.ccit.arizona.edu
To: oops! SB
Subject: your current email address bounced
Message:
I did try. I'm at
selene@ocean.ccit.arizona.edu

ick I hate posting my email but.. I'm not sure why I can't get in
touch with you so... just letting you know it matters to me.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Jun 24, 2000 at 21:19:41 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: Selene again!!
Subject: I just got yours: Expect mail nt
Message:
nt
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Jun 23, 2000 at 13:13:34 (GMT)
From: hahhahahahaha
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: hahagood one hahahahaha nt
Message:
nt
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Jun 23, 2000 at 10:46:40 (GMT)
From: Jethro
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: The secret of all secrets
Message:
Did you ever hear the one about the guy who was born with agolden screw in his belly button?

He spent years asking the wise what this screw meant and noone new. Anyway he eventually ended up on the top of the Himalayas where he met the most Dada Guru of all. He did 3 years of pranamimg before approaching the guru and then asked him 'What is the secret of the golden screw in my belly button?'
DadaGuru said 'Eeeeeer....well...actually I don't know, why don't you try unscrewing it?'.

So the guy unscrewed the screw...and guess what........his bum fell off!

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Jun 23, 2000 at 12:21:55 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Jethro
Subject: I just love...
Message:
...those old Indian satsang stories Jeth.

The guys arse was his ego right? And he attained God realisation, found the place to channel his devotion and finally got to the bottom of the matter for once and for all.

Anth, reader of entrails. (Arse me another- what this forum needs is less sensible debate and more arse jokes)

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Jun 23, 2000 at 15:29:59 (GMT)
From: Jethro
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Why don't you and....
Message:
Malconb L write some satire..or is he still entrenched.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Jun 23, 2000 at 15:36:16 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Jethro
Subject: Why don't you and....
Message:
...up to his thousand petalled lotus in it. I still talk on the phone to him, but we avoid controversial topics.

Anth the uncontroversial

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Jun 23, 2000 at 20:02:24 (GMT)
From: Mahatma Upurjaksianand
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Why don't you see what a picture's worth, above?nt
Message:
Why don't you see what a picture's worth, above?nt
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Jun 23, 2000 at 04:29:19 (GMT)
From: Michael
Email: None
To: Keith
Subject: I'm curious...
Message:
Keith, as one who knows of your history on this site, especially your particularly boring and punctuation-deficient 'vacol' phase, I am curious as to why you feel it is so important for you to express yourself here? You really go on and on and I think that perhaps it's time for a bit of break, old boy.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Jun 23, 2000 at 04:41:56 (GMT)
From: Keith
Email: None
To: Michael
Subject: I'm curious...
Message:
Been thinking of taking a break myself, old boy. Why have I persisted? Not everyone reacts as you do. I enjoy it. It partially satisfies my writing urge. And if you read my post above you may glean more of my enlightened response to your very penetrating question. Michael, do you have much to contribute yourself? I'd be curious to read some constructive and obviously punctuation perfect and non-boring views about existence. Is there a reason why certain individuals should not express here? What is that Michael? What are your views about that? And btw, my post above was really a response to posts in other threads. Not just expressing for its own sake. Comprendo?
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Jun 23, 2000 at 05:17:58 (GMT)
From: Michael
Email: None
To: Keith
Subject: I'm curious...
Message:
Keith, most people don't find it necessary to continually 'express' here. As has been pointed out by others, you tend to dominate the conversation (although it isn't much of a conversation with you blathering all the time). As far as my own contributions are concerned, I contribute when I have something to contribute and when there is a discussion in an area in which I am particularly interested, but I don't have the need to go on and on about my own beliefs. However, from your rather prolific yet empty output, I would say that your expression is 'for its own sake,' entinedo?
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Jun 23, 2000 at 06:05:08 (GMT)
From: Keith
Email: None
To: Michael
Subject: Believe what you want!nt.
Message:
nt.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Jun 23, 2000 at 20:05:37 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Keith
Subject: Was that a reaction, Keith, or a response? (nt)
Message:
Was that a reaction, Keith, or a response? (nt)
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Jun 23, 2000 at 01:54:17 (GMT)
From: Hector
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Food for thought
Message:
From Albert Einstein

The goals of science & religion, and our understanding of life



  • 'The more a man is imbued with the ordered regularity of all events the
    firmer becomes his conviction that there is no room left by the side of this
    ordered regularity for causes of a different nature.
  • For him neither the rule of human nor the rule of divine will exist as an
    independent cause of natural events.
  • To be sure, the doctrine of a personal God interfering with the natural
    events could never be refuted, in the real sense, by science, for this doctrine
    can always take refuge in those domains in which scientific knowledge has not
    yet been able to set foot.

  • But I am persuaded that such behaviour on the part of the representatives of
    religion would not only be unworthy but also fatal.
  • For a doctrine which is able to maintain itself not in clear light but only
    in the dark, will of necessity lose its effect on mankind, with incalculable
    harm to human progress ....
  • If it is one of the goals of religions to liberate maknind as far as
    possible from the bondage of egocentric cravings, desires, and fears, scientific
    reasoning can aid religion in another sense.
  • Although it is true that it is the goal of science to discover (the) rules
    which permit the association and foretelling of facts, this is not its only aim.

  • It also seeks to reduce the connections discovered to the smallest possible
    number of mutually independent conceptual elements.
  • It is in this striving after the rational unification of the manifold that
    it encounters its greatest successes, even though it is precisely this attempt
    which causes it to run the greatest risk of falling a prey to illusion.
  • But whoever has undergone the intense experience of successful advances made
    in this domain, is moved by the profound reverence for the rationality made
    manifest in existence.
  • By way of the understanding he achieves a far reaching emancipation from the
    shackles of personal hopes and desires, and thereby attains that humble attitude
    of mind toward the grandeur of reason, incarnate in existence, and which, in its
    profoundest depths, is inaccessible to man.

  • This attitude, however, appears to me to be religious in the highest sense
    of the word.
  • And so it seems to me that science not only purifies the religious imulse of
    the dross of its anthropomorphism but also contibutes to a religious
    spiritualisation of our understanding of life'.


The mystic emotion, knowledge, and religious
sentiment



  • 'The finest emotion of which we are capable is the mystic emotion.
  • Herein lies the germ of all art and all true science.
  • Anyone to whom this feeling is alien, who is no longer capable of wonderment
    and lives in a state of fear is a dead man.

  • To know that what is impenatrable for us really exists and manifests itself
    as the highest wisdom and the most radiant beauty, whose gross forms alone are
    intelligible to our poor faculties - this knowledge, this feeling ... that is
    the core of the true religious sentiment.

  • In this sense, and in this sense alone, I rank myself amoung profoundly
    religious men.'




The Temple of Science, and the Scientific Assembly
...



  • 'In the temple of science are many mansions, and various indeed are they
    that dwell therein and the motives that have led them thither.
  • Many take to science out of a joyful sense of superior intellectual power;
    science is their own special sport to which they look for vivid experience and
    the satisfaction of ambition;
  • many others are to be found in the temple who have offered the products of
    their brains on this altar for purely utilitarian purposes.
  • Were an angel of the Lord to come and drive all the people belonging to
    these two categories out of the temple, the assemblage would be seriously
    depleted, but there would still be some men, of both present and past times,
    left inside'




The cosmic religious experience



  • 'The cosmic religious experience is the strongest and noblest driving force
    behind scientific research.
  • No one who does not appreciate the terrific exertions and above all, the
    devotion without which pioneer creations in scientific thought cannot come into
    being, can judge the strength of the feeling out of which alone such work,
    turned away as it is from immediate practical life, can grow.
  • What a deep faith in the rationality of the world and its structure and what
    a longing to understand even the smallest glimpses of the reason revealed in the
    world there must have been in Kepler and Newton ...'




Human beings and their circle of compassion



  • 'A human being is part of the whole called by us universe , a part limited
    in time and space.
  • We experience ourselves, our thoughts and feelings as something separate
    from the rest.
  • A kind of optical delusion of consciousness.
  • This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal
    desires and to affection for a few persons nearest to us.
  • Our task must be to free ourselves from the prison by widening our circle of
    compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature in its
    beauty...

  • We shall require a substantially new manner of thinking if mankind is to
    survive.'



Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Jun 24, 2000 at 09:36:18 (GMT)
From: JohnT
Email: None
To: Hector
Subject: Food for thought
Message:
... and your point is?

Albert Einstein: God does not play dice with the Universe.
Neils Bohr: Oh yes, he does!

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Jun 23, 2000 at 23:57:46 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: Hector
Subject: A lot of work: Did anybody said something? zzz nt
Message:
nt
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Jun 23, 2000 at 20:21:50 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Hector
Subject: sick-bags available on request?
Message:
This delusion is a kind of prison for us ...

'doctrine can always take refuge in those domains in which scientific knowledge has not yet been able to set foot.' Albert Einstein.

Like science has not yet been able to DISprove that aliens once existed. Hence they might exist?

I guess science doesn't want to go there.

(Unless an alien were to call SETI on one-to-one)


Then what do you make of this:

'A human being is part of the whole called by us universe , a part limited in time and space. This delusion is a kind of prison for us ...'

So we're NOT a part - limited in time and space -of the universe???

What the f**k are you trying to say here, Hect?

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Jun 24, 2000 at 02:33:52 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: Not Hector's words, cq, Einstein's! ;-) (nt)
Message:
Not Hector's words, cq, Einstein's! (nt)
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Jun 24, 2000 at 17:16:48 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Stonor
Subject: Well noticed. So I disagree with Einstein. Ha!(nt)
Message:
Well noticed. So I disagree with Einstein. Ha!(nt)
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Jun 23, 2000 at 03:05:09 (GMT)
From: The cosmic religious expe
Email: None
To: Hector
Subject: ience is the strongest and noblest driving force
Message:
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Jun 23, 2000 at 15:44:10 (GMT)
From: on offer this week
Email: None
To: The cosmic religious expe
Subject: from your local fake guru
Message:
nt
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Jun 23, 2000 at 10:15:16 (GMT)
From: of a Ford Fiesta when
Email: sirdavid12@hotmail.com
To: The cosmic religious expe
Subject: trying to park in the rain
Message:
It's that man again.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Jun 23, 2000 at 11:44:45 (GMT)
From: while watching a hovering
Email: None
To: That man
Subject: vehicle that's taking up the entire parking lot
Message:
Marble Mind here, Sparklecake! And don't stick your nose into my missile to a philosophical materialist, or I'll start posting my opinion on pornography at AG! ;-)

Keep your eyes peeled for falling buddhi!

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Jun 23, 2000 at 03:06:53 (GMT)
From: behind scientific
Email: None
To: The cosmic religious expe
Subject: research. Thanks Einstein, and Hector (Stonor) nt
Message:
aaaaaaaaaa
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Jun 23, 2000 at 14:51:43 (GMT)
From: Forum Administrator
Email: None
To: behind scientific
Subject: Please...
Message:
...write your posts under single headings, otherwise they will be deleted.

FA

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Jun 24, 2000 at 02:31:05 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: Forum Administrator
Subject: of course, but . . .
Message:
It was a message to Jim. He posted a longer one in a similar style to Elaine. Sir David added to it. I replied in kind. It was clear who posted all of them, I believe. Except I've just noticed that there is another addition which I haven't read yet. I would apologize if I had knowingly or forgetfully done something wrong. Thanks for letting me know.
Could you please make this announcement to everyone. I appreciate consistency. I will not do it again, but others might unless this is made clear.

Stonor

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 04:33:25 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: FA
Subject: Forget to post - Jim got same. Fine by me. (nt)
Message:
Forget to post - Jim got same. Fine by me. (nt)
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Jun 23, 2000 at 02:01:21 (GMT)
From: Rob
Email: None
To: Hector
Subject: Jesus, another fucking preacher (yawn) nt
Message:
nt
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Jun 23, 2000 at 02:38:07 (GMT)
From: Keith
Email: None
To: Rob
Subject: Jesus, another fucking preacher (yawn) nt
Message:
What an idiotic response to a great persons thinking. Einstein's little finger merits more than your pretentious yawn, Rob.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Jun 23, 2000 at 05:43:47 (GMT)
From: Rob
Email: None
To: Keith
Subject: Stupid
Message:
You following me round looking for some action Keith?

The comment wasn't aimed at Einstein you stupid prick, it was directed at Hector for his blatant attempt at displaying his own nobility and supposed superiority as a premie by posting classical dissertations from a respected source.

What if I hove great chunks of Jung, Freud or Homer up here, what would it prove? That I understood it? No. That I could have written similar great words from my own experience? No. That I am intellectually superior and therefore people should pay attention to any prattle I follow it up with? No.

All it would prove, and does prove in Hector's case, is that I can search the web for this stuff and cut/paste it into a message board. Big fucking deal. The end result still whiffs of preaching, and frankly premie preaching of late has been excessive and boring.

So fuck him, fuck you and fuck Einstein's little finger.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Jun 24, 2000 at 00:30:14 (GMT)
From: O
Email: None
To: Rob
Subject: That's the spirit Rob!
Message:
Now you're really becoming a bonafide expremie Rob.You're swearing,you're abusive,and you're delivering your lines in a clever way with just the right amount of intelectual polish.The transformation is almost complete.
Hal,you paying attention?
As an aside can I ask you guys,is Jim your secret role model?I mean you all trying to emulate him or something?If we did consider ex-premiedom (which is by now fast becoming an identifiable state of mind)a cult,then would Jim be your cult leader?The way soem of you stroke him,fear him,venerate him and yes emulate him is amazing.Does him a diservice distending his ego like that.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Jun 24, 2000 at 19:51:01 (GMT)
From: Hal
Email: None
To: O
Subject: I'm trying O but I fear ..............
Message:
I'll never quite make it. Fuck of you moronic guru worshipping piece of shit. You creeps make me so fuckin' sick. Why do you keep changing pseudonyms? Don't you know the guidelines here. Why don't you take a hike. This is an ex-premie forum and we need the space here to discuss the traumatic after effects of being involved with the fat little con man. Now fuck off asshole. Well I tried. How was that ? Up to the level required. No? Damn.That's what I thought. Oh well I'll keep working on it ,asshole cult member.

Shit I could get censored for this!!!!!!!

Kind regards and best wishes,
Hal

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Jun 24, 2000 at 09:29:43 (GMT)
From: JohnT
Email: None
To: O
Subject: The delusions of a nobody
Message:
0 wrote about some ex-premies attitude to Jim:

Is (he) your cult leader? The way soem of you stroke him,fear him,venerate him and yes emulate him is amazing.Does him a diservice distending his ego like that.

JohnT explains:O has described the premie attitude to Rawat - not 'the ex-premie attitude to Jim'. This is an example of the delusional stinking thinking common in cult victims.

0 cannot at present see beyond his own mind. He tries to write about other people, but can write only about himself. The sins he sees in others are his own sins.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Jun 24, 2000 at 04:48:41 (GMT)
From: Rob
Email: .
To: O
Subject: Jolly nice of you to say so old chap.
Message:
Now fuck off:) Just kidding. Have to be careful what I put in the subject line these days or the FAs get their big eraser out. I wonder if the hamster is paying them off to get more premie air-time on the forum? Hmmmm.

Anyway:

Now you're really becoming a bonafide expremie Rob. The transformation is almost complete.

Thank you. I feel so much better for it too. Very liberating. So I guess you've been around a while huh? Have we spoken before?

You're swearing,you're abusive,and you're delivering your lines in a clever way with just the right amount of intelectual polish.

As a writer I have many literary devices at my disposal. The occasional use of coarse Anglo-Saxon properly applied, can be very effective, especially when apparantly out-of-character. Besides, you cult-preaching, sanctimonious premie clones piss me the fuck off sometimes.

As an aside can I ask you guys,is Jim your secret role model?I mean you all trying to emulate him or something?If we did consider ex-premiedom (which is by now fast becoming an identifiable state of mind)a cult,then would Jim be your cult leader?The way soem of you stroke him,fear him,venerate him and yes emulate him is amazing.Does him a diservice distending his ego like that.

Another vain attempt by a cult apologist to shift the focus away from their own sad plight. Sorry, I'm not taking the bait. You have a problem with Jim, I suggest you start a new thread with his name in it and he'll be happy to go head-to-head. Well, until you reach a question you can't/won't answer and start to wriggle, evade and eventually split.


Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Jun 24, 2000 at 04:21:19 (GMT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: O
Subject: Good point. O
Message:
As an aside can I ask you guys,is Jim your secret role model?

Why don't you go fuck yourself, you stupid, idiotic, moron? Where would you ever get that impression? Actually, Jim is a guiding light here. It's true. He's a reasonable man. But since we lack his same powers of reason, we've contented ourselves with the four letter words our cult leader is so fond of. Fuck, shit, shit, fuck. Somehow, it makes me feel closer to Lord Jim when I speak like that.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Jun 24, 2000 at 04:27:55 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: What IS the right way to handle such stupidity?
Message:
Thank you, Jerry, for attempting to throw out this piece of shit. Personally, I didn't want to touch it my self. These nameless, faceless idiotic cowards are reduced to saying 'I know you are but what am I?' the Hamster. If this were real life, a, they wouldn't dare say something this dumb and b, if they did, you'd just walk away laughing. But I don't know. What really can you say to such nonsense?

I guess it's always cool to remind them that Maharaji's an alcoholic or something but even that gets old. Shit, I don't know.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Jun 24, 2000 at 04:50:04 (GMT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: I dunno
Message:
Hey, Jim, you do rub off on people, and guys who have a propensity to let fly with the four letter words, like moi, do have a tendency to follow your lead. I mean, you were here first, and I did dig it the first time I heard you call Maharaji a fat fuck guru, or something equally flattering. I said to myself, I like that. Seriously, you're an inspiration. Maybe O will feel the same way, someday. But I doubt it. He likes being the devotee of an alcoholic too much.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Jun 23, 2000 at 06:06:54 (GMT)
From: Keith
Email: None
To: Rob
Subject: Thanks for the polite clarification.nt
Message:
nt.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 03:33:55 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: Keith
Subject: That is it????? .nt
Message:
eh?
Return to Index -:- Top of Index