Forum V: Archive
Compiled: Wed, Jul 12, 2000 at 09:43:32 (GMT)
From: Jul 01, 2000 To: Jul 09, 2000 Page: 5 Of: 5


Tonette -:- Class Action Suit? Psychological damage? -:- Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 08:23:48 (GMT)
__ Marianne -:- Who are you? -:- Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 16:10:06 (GMT)
__ __ Tonette -:- Who are you? -:- Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 17:07:42 (GMT)
__ __ __ Marianne -:- Tell us more please (nt) -:- Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 17:19:03 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Tonette -:- Tell us more please (nt) -:- Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 17:22:47 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Marianne -:- Tell us more please (nt) -:- Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 17:26:01 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Tonette -:- Journey -:- Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 17:32:18 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Marianne -:- Journey -:- Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 17:44:25 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Joey -:- legal action... -:- Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 18:07:03 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Actually, Zelda's got a good point there -:- Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 19:05:39 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Joey -:- But my point is this... -:- Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 19:15:20 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- We're talking about two different things -:- Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 19:26:40 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Joey -:- We're talking about two different things -:- Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 19:36:06 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Tonette -:- Let's go dig up some dirt! -:- Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 19:40:36 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Marianne -:- Let's go dig up some dirt! -:- Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 19:55:19 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ cq -:- With respect Marianne, are you saying we should -:- Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 20:06:33 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Katie -:- cq - pls see my post 'Yo from me, too' below (nt) -:- Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 22:35:35 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- Oh gawd, Chris -:- Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 20:44:32 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ ham -:- Music for conspiracy theorists (ot) -:- Tues, Jul 04, 2000 at 18:29:46 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ cq -:- well that's me told ... -:- Tues, Jul 04, 2000 at 17:25:08 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Marianne -:- Chris!!! -:- Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 20:14:18 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ cq -:- Moi ??? -:- Tues, Jul 04, 2000 at 18:18:54 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Marianne -:- Moi ??? -:- Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 00:22:15 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Katie -:- Too funny, Chris! (Let them eat cake?) nt -:- Tues, Jul 04, 2000 at 18:23:04 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ cq -:- I'm wid choo (nt) -:- Tues, Jul 04, 2000 at 19:17:54 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ cq -:- on second thoughts,Marianne,ignore quoted post(nt) -:- Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 20:08:28 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Go for it, Tonette -:- Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 19:48:57 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- Hey Marianne...(ot chit chat) -:- Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 17:43:03 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Marianne -:- Hey gErRy...(ot chit chat) -:- Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 17:47:30 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ gErRy -:- Hey ...(ot more chit chat) -:- Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 18:00:17 (GMT)

Tonette -:- How did his kids turn out?Who gets darshan? -:- Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 05:46:20 (GMT)

Help please -:- Can someone help me? -:- Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 05:23:36 (GMT)
__ Maybe -:- Tim = Pauline = You?(nt) -:- Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 22:12:18 (GMT)
__ __ Maybe -:- Tim = PaulinePremie = You = Katie? -:- Tues, Jul 04, 2000 at 09:59:25 (GMT)
__ __ __ Help -:- Tim = PaulinePremie = You = Katie? -:- Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 12:15:15 (GMT)
__ __ __ Katie -:- Don't ask me, ask the FA! -:- Tues, Jul 04, 2000 at 12:30:52 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Katie -:- Oops, didn't understand whole title of post -:- Tues, Jul 04, 2000 at 12:36:09 (GMT)
__ __ hELP -:- Furthermore... -:- Tues, Jul 04, 2000 at 00:50:04 (GMT)
__ __ __ Katie -:- I can verify that 'Help Please' is not Tim... -:- Tues, Jul 04, 2000 at 12:33:26 (GMT)
__ __ hELP -:- No. My story is true! (nt) -:- Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 22:21:41 (GMT)
__ Paul -:- 'you'll know him by his works' -:- Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 15:07:29 (GMT)
__ Help please -:- I don't want money from you exes, I want -:- Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 13:15:34 (GMT)
__ __ Sir Dave -:- I don't want money from you exes, I want -:- Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 13:50:45 (GMT)
__ __ __ Help -:- I don't want money from you exes, I want -:- Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 14:05:29 (GMT)
__ Tonette -:- Get a grip! -:- Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 05:34:29 (GMT)
__ __ Help Please -:- Get a grip! -:- Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 05:51:36 (GMT)

SB -:- I want IDEAS on LINKS for Michael Moore -:- Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 03:41:42 (GMT)
__ Tonette -:- Want some old audio tapes? -:- Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 05:26:28 (GMT)
__ __ SB -:- Want some old audio tapes? -:- Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 05:49:35 (GMT)
__ Tonette -:- I want IDEAS on LINKS for Michael Moore -:- Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 04:14:06 (GMT)
__ __ SB -:- I want IDEAS on LINKS for Michael Moore -:- Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 04:48:14 (GMT)
__ SB -:- Explanation about MOORE -:- Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 03:57:36 (GMT)
__ Katie -:- I want IDEAS on LINKS for Michael Moore -:- Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 03:56:53 (GMT)
__ __ SB -:- I want IDEAS on LINKS for Michael Moore -:- Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 03:59:49 (GMT)
__ __ __ Katie -:- The ex-premie.org home page! (nt) -:- Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 04:08:29 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ cq -:- don't forget this (non ex-premie.org) testimony: -:- Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 18:53:53 (GMT)

SB -:- Who got the teeth??? (nt) OT -:- Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 02:47:31 (GMT)
__ Katie -:- Not us, but we could use a few around here! (nt) -:- Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 03:23:54 (GMT)
__ __ SB -:- I just got a phone call!! -:- Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 03:39:27 (GMT)

wilbur -:- I was there, and I am here -:- Sun, Jul 02, 2000 at 23:44:24 (GMT)
__ Tonette -:- I was there, and I am here -:- Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 03:45:51 (GMT)
__ __ Top of the Line Lawyers -:- He has to pay us!! hmmm...(nt) -:- Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 04:03:22 (GMT)
__ __ __ Tonette -:- He has to pay us!! hmmm...(nt) -:- Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 04:20:40 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ SB -:- He has to pay us!! hmmm...(nt) -:- Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 04:58:57 (GMT)
__ Sir Dave -:- I was there, and I am here -:- Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 00:45:15 (GMT)

Way -:- Response to Elan Vital -:- Sun, Jul 02, 2000 at 23:34:06 (GMT)
__ Han -:- The ultimate question,,,? -:- Tues, Jul 04, 2000 at 00:12:37 (GMT)
__ __ Way -:- To Han re:The ultimate question,,,? -:- Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 15:09:10 (GMT)
__ __ __ Han -:- To Way, re:The ultimate question,,,? -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 03:35:43 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Way -:- Back to Han re:The ultimate question,,,? -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 15:38:46 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Jim -:- You've got the wrong guy, you idiot -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 12:21:49 (GMT)
__ __ __ Joey -:- Way, thank you for this post (nt) -:- Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 17:19:39 (GMT)
__ __ Rob -:- Hope you have your cloaking device on -:- Tues, Jul 04, 2000 at 16:31:07 (GMT)
__ __ Jim -:- What's with your retarded punctuation? -:- Tues, Jul 04, 2000 at 01:29:21 (GMT)
__ __ __ Han -:- your absolutely right,,, -:- Tues, Jul 04, 2000 at 04:05:15 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Jim -:- You don't have a 'viewpoint' -:- Tues, Jul 04, 2000 at 04:31:40 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Han -:- That's your Mantra,,isn't it? -:- Tues, Jul 04, 2000 at 15:28:25 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- I don't do 'mantra' and I don't do 'inspiring' -:- Tues, Jul 04, 2000 at 16:06:27 (GMT)
__ __ __ G -:- Maybe he's mimicking -:- Tues, Jul 04, 2000 at 02:58:31 (GMT)
__ SB -:- I support WAY's LINK idea!! Read WAY's post!!! -:- Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 03:53:52 (GMT)
__ Tonette -:- Response to Elan Vital -:- Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 03:41:51 (GMT)
__ __ Malibu Attorney General -:- Response to Elan Vital -:- Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 03:50:10 (GMT)
__ __ __ Marianne -:- I would not respond to this -:- Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 16:28:57 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ MAG -:- An EX forever, Marianne (nt) -:- Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 20:47:09 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Marianne -:- Thanks, MAG -:- Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 21:42:11 (GMT)
__ Katie -:- Thank you, Way -:- Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 03:34:22 (GMT)
__ Joey -:- Great post Way ! -:- Sun, Jul 02, 2000 at 23:38:37 (GMT)

gErRy -:- Ya still need the Massah... -:- Sun, Jul 02, 2000 at 22:31:17 (GMT)
__ cq -:- 'the most kind and generous of givers' ??? -:- Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 19:27:33 (GMT)
__ Lotus Eater -:- Ya still need the Massah...oh yes boss -:- Sun, Jul 02, 2000 at 22:55:04 (GMT)

Jim -:- Boy, would I love to discuss this with them! -:- Sun, Jul 02, 2000 at 18:51:03 (GMT)
__ killer -:- 77 to 82 was 'carefree approach'?? -:- Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 21:01:07 (GMT)
__ __ Katie -:- 77 to 82 was 'heavy devotional period'! -:- Tues, Jul 04, 2000 at 18:59:53 (GMT)
__ Daneane -:- You have -:- Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 00:14:52 (GMT)
__ __ Jim -:- Thanks, Daneane, I guess you're right -:- Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 00:46:04 (GMT)
__ __ __ ham -:- 'Is that a sick pleasure? Who cares? It's fun!' -:- Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 18:30:40 (GMT)
__ __ __ SB -:- Thanks, Daneane, I guess you're right -:- Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 03:43:26 (GMT)
__ TD -:- I kissed his feet in 1996/97, so the garden... -:- Sun, Jul 02, 2000 at 22:52:11 (GMT)
__ Jerry -:- Yeah, me too -:- Sun, Jul 02, 2000 at 22:05:26 (GMT)
__ gerry -:- It's the little stuff that's insidious -:- Sun, Jul 02, 2000 at 19:38:19 (GMT)
__ __ cq -:- what of the banana-skin of 'guru is greater than.. -:- Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 19:19:01 (GMT)
__ __ Joey -:- 'insidious' is right on, gerry! -:- Sun, Jul 02, 2000 at 21:31:02 (GMT)
__ __ __ gerry -:- thanks Joey and... -:- Sun, Jul 02, 2000 at 21:53:27 (GMT)
__ __ Mili -:- It's the little stuff that's insidious -:- Sun, Jul 02, 2000 at 19:49:41 (GMT)
__ __ __ gerry -:- Thanks, Mili I appreciate your graditude -:- Sun, Jul 02, 2000 at 20:00:35 (GMT)

Sir Dave -:- Premies peddle porn for their master -:- Sun, Jul 02, 2000 at 12:07:34 (GMT)
__ Tonette -:- Premies peddle porn for their master -:- Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 03:43:35 (GMT)

TD -:- What to do about EV's Fuck All Questions? -:- Sun, Jul 02, 2000 at 08:19:00 (GMT)
__ Tonette -:- What to do about EV's Fuck All Questions? -:- Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 04:12:53 (GMT)
__ Katie -:- Good idea, TD -:- Sun, Jul 02, 2000 at 15:35:26 (GMT)
__ __ TD -:- FAQ's and Maharaji's biography -:- Sun, Jul 02, 2000 at 22:33:11 (GMT)
__ __ __ Katie -:- Maharaji's biography is an Xmas letter! -:- Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 02:06:35 (GMT)
__ TD -:- Oh I just read some of Jim's too below ... -:- Sun, Jul 02, 2000 at 08:25:11 (GMT)
__ __ Jim -:- Hey, don't think we all can't play at this! -:- Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 00:49:41 (GMT)
__ __ gerry -:- Like this, maybe, TD? -:- Sun, Jul 02, 2000 at 15:05:08 (GMT)
__ __ __ TD -:- Like this, maybe, TD? -:- Sun, Jul 02, 2000 at 22:39:20 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ gErRy -:- Shri and Mini Shri, that's the spirit !!! -:- Sun, Jul 02, 2000 at 22:47:20 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ TD -:- 'You complete me!' said Mini-Shri! (nt) -:- Sun, Jul 02, 2000 at 22:57:06 (GMT)

Rob -:- Should K carry a Surgeon General's Warning? -:- Sun, Jul 02, 2000 at 05:47:31 (GMT)
__ cq -:- Blimey! someone read a link I recommended -:- Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 19:46:19 (GMT)
__ __ Rob -:- Yep, keep em coming -:- Tues, Jul 04, 2000 at 00:20:34 (GMT)
__ gerry -:- Great job, Rob and some hopeful thinking. -:- Sun, Jul 02, 2000 at 15:30:25 (GMT)
__ Lotus Eater -:- Yes, it damn well should (nt) -:- Sun, Jul 02, 2000 at 06:54:24 (GMT)

Jean-Michel -:- K for free? Seminars' cost dollars 3,000/week -:- Sun, Jul 02, 2000 at 04:42:20 (GMT)
__ Jean-Michel -:- Let's see how EV's going to justify -:- Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 07:43:20 (GMT)
__ __ Daneane -:- Because u can't put a price on 'this gift' -:- Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 13:01:33 (GMT)
__ Anarchist -:- K for free? Seminars' cost dollars 3,000/week -:- Sun, Jul 02, 2000 at 11:41:47 (GMT)
__ __ Joey -:- K for free? Seminars' cost dollars 3,000/week -:- Sun, Jul 02, 2000 at 22:02:00 (GMT)
__ __ __ Lotus eater -:- it's no wonder the hamster's wheel is rusty -:- Sun, Jul 02, 2000 at 22:32:35 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ SB -:- Not Even That!! -:- Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 04:09:19 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Tonette -:- Save the documents -:- Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 04:44:40 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ SB -:- Save the documents -:- Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 12:50:30 (GMT)

Jim -:- Don't forget to read the Press Kit -:- Sun, Jul 02, 2000 at 03:44:24 (GMT)
__ Katie -:- Jim, a question? -:- Sun, Jul 02, 2000 at 16:20:41 (GMT)
__ __ Jim -:- Jim, a question? -:- Sun, Jul 02, 2000 at 18:26:13 (GMT)
__ __ __ Katie -:- Thanks (nt) -:- Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 02:23:13 (GMT)

Jim -:- EV gives itself a home examination: is it a cult? -:- Sun, Jul 02, 2000 at 03:31:03 (GMT)
__ VP -:- Sorry, but Maharaji runs a cult -:- Sun, Jul 02, 2000 at 14:06:19 (GMT)
__ __ Katie -:- Great post, VP! (nt) -:- Sun, Jul 02, 2000 at 15:37:09 (GMT)
__ __ __ VP -:- Thank you , Katie -:- Sun, Jul 02, 2000 at 19:09:53 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Katie -:- Explaining DLM - 'it's all the premies' fault!' -:- Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 02:27:44 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Joey -:- And I thank you VP -:- Sun, Jul 02, 2000 at 21:43:08 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Lotus Eater -:- So true, and it explains -:- Sun, Jul 02, 2000 at 22:24:14 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ SB -:- So true, and it explains -:- Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 02:54:26 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Lotus Eater -:- Agreed, also he could wash my car (nt) -:- Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 21:49:19 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ JtF -:- 2 years in a prison cell w/300lb.skinhead -:- Tues, Jul 04, 2000 at 10:42:46 (GMT)

Jim -:- OK, let's look at this shit -:- Sun, Jul 02, 2000 at 03:04:53 (GMT)
__ VP -:- OK, let's look at this shit -:- Sun, Jul 02, 2000 at 13:09:24 (GMT)
__ Jim -:- The EV Statement of Values -:- Sun, Jul 02, 2000 at 03:18:44 (GMT)
__ __ Tonette -:- Who's gonna nail this bastard? -:- Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 05:15:33 (GMT)
__ __ __ Marianne -:- It won't be announced beforehand -:- Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 16:46:22 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ cq -:- It won't be announced beforehand -:- Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 17:37:29 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Marianne -:- Hi Chris -:- Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 17:52:22 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ cq -:- Yo, Marianne -:- Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 19:54:22 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Katie -:- Yo from me, Chris -:- Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 22:34:17 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Marianne -:- Yo, Chris -:- Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 20:10:03 (GMT)
__ __ JtF -:- The EV Statement of Values and COSTS -:- Sun, Jul 02, 2000 at 07:38:48 (GMT)
__ __ Marianne -:- The EV Statement of Values -:- Sun, Jul 02, 2000 at 07:22:59 (GMT)
__ __ __ cq -:- Any bets on how long til the next revisionism?(nt) -:- Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 19:56:43 (GMT)

A. -:- alexandra palace, enfield ashram -:- Sat, Jul 01, 2000 at 23:58:57 (GMT)
__ John -:- alexandra palace, enfield ashram -:- Sun, Jul 02, 2000 at 00:05:21 (GMT)

Deputy Dog -:- Appreciation and the film 'American Beauty' -:- Sat, Jul 01, 2000 at 23:49:02 (GMT)
__ hamzen -:- Duh, how could I know what you mean since gm tells -:- Sun, Jul 02, 2000 at 21:09:12 (GMT)
__ SB -:- Appreciation and the film 'American Beauty' -:- Sun, Jul 02, 2000 at 13:34:01 (GMT)
__ Felix the.... -:- Appreciation and the film 'American Beauty' -:- Sun, Jul 02, 2000 at 02:07:51 (GMT)
__ __ Monmot -:- Stealin' Credits, Felix? -:- Sun, Jul 02, 2000 at 14:07:19 (GMT)
__ __ Hal -:- Dep you need never post another line here......... -:- Sun, Jul 02, 2000 at 10:39:00 (GMT)
__ Susan -:- wow Dog, how could someone who doesn't have -:- Sun, Jul 02, 2000 at 00:58:16 (GMT)
__ __ Hal -:- wow Dog, how could someone who doesn't have -:- Sun, Jul 02, 2000 at 10:34:15 (GMT)
__ __ __ Felix the..... -:- Wow ,how can I put a Downer on this? -:- Sun, Jul 02, 2000 at 13:34:42 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Jim -:- Let's deal with this right now, asshole! -:- Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 00:54:35 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Felix the...... -:- Let's deal with this right now, asshole! -:- Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 01:56:13 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Prove it! -:- Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 05:18:35 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Screw you -:- Felix: (nt) -:- Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 12:59:33 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Felix the...... -:- Proved it! -:- Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 09:08:04 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- 'FOLLOW the dragon'? Who r u? Peter Sellars? -:- Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 17:29:06 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Felix the.... -:- No , but are you Hannibal Lector? -:- Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 23:58:28 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Ah fahgetabaudit Felix! -:- These muthafukahs don't listen to no reason (nt) -:- Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 03:59:51 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ hAL -:- These muthafukahs don't listen to no reason (nt) -:- Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 17:22:23 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ To Felix from SB -:- You sound like one! -:- Tues, Jul 04, 2000 at 01:32:02 (GMT)
__ Nigel -:- Nice script but.. -:- Sun, Jul 02, 2000 at 00:06:20 (GMT)
__ Lotus Eater -:- Appreciation and the film 'American Beauty' -:- Sat, Jul 01, 2000 at 23:56:15 (GMT)
__ __ Monmot -:- 'Scuse Me While I Kiss The Sky... -:- Sun, Jul 02, 2000 at 03:49:44 (GMT)


Date: Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 08:23:48 (GMT)
From: Tonette
Email: not posted
To: Everyone
Subject: Class Action Suit? Psychological damage?
Message:
If the cigarette companies aren't immune-this may seem crazy-Who out there feels as if they suffered psychological damage from his ministrations?Betrayed?After all we dedicated our lives to him for awhile. What did we get? A bunch of lies, finacial ruin for some,depression,ect. There's certainly enough of us out here that could testify and enough documents that would support us.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 16:10:06 (GMT)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: Tonette
Subject: Who are you?
Message:
Tonette: Pardon me for being a bit suspicious, but you have made two posts here -- without ever posting here before -- discussing starting a class action suit and getting people who could talk to the IRS about M to come forward. This sort of talk seems to be designed to gain information about Forum participants. Given the discussions which have been occurring on the forum over the last couple of days, it strikes me that your comments are designed to uncover information that M's lawyers would like to have at this moment.

Tell us about yourself. When and where did you receive knowledge? What is your real name? What premie communities did you live in? Who were your friends? What programs did you attend? Why did you become an ex?

Marianne

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 17:07:42 (GMT)
From: Tonette
Email: not posted
To: Marianne
Subject: Who are you?
Message:
Oh I'm for real allright. Not a mole for Maharaji. Just found this site and still(although it's been years)wonder just how the hell he can get away with what he did to people.Sure, we were fools but I keep hoping that someday he will have to make amends to all the people he hurt, the relationships he destroyed, the money he conned.I think the man is dangerous. I received knowledge in the fall of 1976 from Ira woods in Bethesda,MD in a house off Tuckerman Lane.I'm ashamed to say that in my youth I bought his trip lock,stock and barrel butwith alot of 'doubts'. I am married to a guy who still goes to programs when M is in town.I see M's movement as just being on hold.I really don't put anything past M and worry about what this guy is capable of.I am still angry that someone can lie and cheat, stay rich and get richer and get away with it.I sure would like to see him squirm and I would love to see M held accountable for all the damage he's done to lots of people psychologically.Look at this forum, there's still people who are carrying around baggage from their encounter with M from 20 years ago!I went to lots of programs,Guru Puja,Holi,Montreal(peace flight),Rome Hans Jayanti,and others I've since forgotten.I became an ex when I finally put two and two together and realize this guy was a fraud that was in 1982 or so.Is M in legal trouble?I would suppose the statute of limitations have run out on the illegal handling of money that occured in DLM.And boy isn't he set for life now!I think M should have to pay for my therapist.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 17:19:03 (GMT)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: Tonette
Subject: Tell us more please (nt)
Message:
xxxx
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 17:22:47 (GMT)
From: Tonette
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: Tell us more please (nt)
Message:
What does (nt) mean? Not True? What more do you want?And who are Top of the Line Lawyers?
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 17:26:01 (GMT)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: Tonette
Subject: Tell us more please (nt)
Message:
(nt) means no text.

Tell us more about yourself. Have you read the Journeys section of the website? Writing a journey is often theraputic.

I have no comment about lawyers.

Marianne

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 17:32:18 (GMT)
From: Tonette
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: Journey
Message:
Oh I will write a journey entry. Just not today. I am 43, mother of two married to a practicing premie,although not a fanatical one,thank God! Gee, after writing in this forum do you think Elan Vital will drop us from their mailing list?HA!
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 17:44:25 (GMT)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: Tonette
Subject: Journey
Message:
Tonette: Being a mother of two (congratulations on that), you are one busy person. Writing a Journey is a very, very helpful thing to do when resolving your departure from the cult.

It is my opinion, perhaps not shared by others here, that we must be careful about discussing legal action against the cult and M on the forum. These things work best when they are not telegraphed first to the other side.

Welcome to the forum and please tell us more about how and why you got involved and how and why you left.

Marianne

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 18:07:03 (GMT)
From: Joey
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: legal action...
Message:
It is my opinion, perhaps not shared by others here, that we must be careful about discussing legal action against the cult and M on the forum. These things work best when they are not telegraphed first to the other side. (Marianne)

Just for the record,I happen to share in that view. That's why when Zelda asked:

Cant we try to get some copies of that and any suits that have been filed or will be filed??

I responded:

I doubt that'll be possible, Zelda. I wonder how many lawyers would want to fully expose their cases before they go to court.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 19:05:39 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Joey
Subject: Actually, Zelda's got a good point there
Message:
It's true that one can usually get a copy of many pleadings from court registries in many jurisdictions. I think the way it works is that the inital Writs, Petitions or Statement of Claims and any Defences filed are all there for public consumption. There are court filing services that do searches for such stuff. My guess is that Malibu, Santa Monica, L.A. or any other relevant courthouse might have a goldmine on file.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 19:15:20 (GMT)
From: Joey
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: But my point is this...
Message:
Why would you want to submit on this forum, information of any cases, or legal action that's about to be taken against the cult?
Why would you want anyone who's about to take action against the cult, to 'spill the beans' here?

That just doesn't make sense for the obvious reasons stated by Marianne, and with which I agree.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 19:26:40 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Joey
Subject: We're talking about two different things
Message:
I'm not talking about future or pending action. Neither was Zelda, apparently. I'm talking about old or current lawsuits.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 19:36:06 (GMT)
From: Joey
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: We're talking about two different things
Message:
I'm glad that you're not talking about future or pending action, but if you reread Zelda's question, she clearly was. Here it is again.

Cant we try to get some copies of that and any suits that have been filed or will be filed??

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 19:40:36 (GMT)
From: Tonette
Email: None
To: everyone
Subject: Let's go dig up some dirt!
Message:
There's got to be lots of crap on him filed in the courthouse around Malibu.It might help anyone who's currently in a suit. Of course,their lawyer would have done this homework.I would be interested just for my own curiosity.I bet they have a web page.I'll go surfing.Get back to you all.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 19:55:19 (GMT)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: Tonette
Subject: Let's go dig up some dirt!
Message:
There are lots of ways to do the research you are suggesting, both on line and off.

Tonette, I appreciate your enthusiasm, but I'd be careful about what you put up on the forum about any information you discover. Sometimes it is better to gather information, and discuss it with others off line, and then decide to what use that information might be put.

It is always possible that this research has already been done by some enterprising ex-premie, and it has just not been mentioned on the forum.

Marianne

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 20:06:33 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: With respect Marianne, are you saying we should
Message:
With respect Marianne, are you saying we should abandon our research simply because there's a POSSIBILITY that another ex is into it?

And how long should we wait before making our results public?

And, a strangely paranoid part of me thinks - what more effective procrastination could a pro-Maharaji-ite recommend?

(Tell me that you ain't one yourself, pullleeeeez!, Marianne)

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 22:35:35 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: cq - pls see my post 'Yo from me, too' below (nt)
Message:
Thanks!
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 20:44:32 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: Oh gawd, Chris
Message:

Chris,

All Marianne is saying is to not tip your hand and don't waste time duplicating others efforts.

As to your suspicions as to Marianne's veracity, Puleeesse. Sheesh, you're worse than I am.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Jul 04, 2000 at 18:29:46 (GMT)
From: ham
Email: ham@hamzen.freeserve.co.uk
To: gerry
Subject: Music for conspiracy theorists (ot)
Message:
Gerr, got a track a mate has made about aliens and roswell and he'd like some feedback from conspiracy theorists as to its ability to get the message over.

If you're interested, then I'll sort yas, although it's beatz an all, phat, that ok widt ya?

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Jul 04, 2000 at 17:25:08 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: well that's me told ...
Message:
well that's me told ...

and I swear that what started it was ... was ...

I got it, the re-run of the X-Files the other night.

Yeah, Ger, any fule kno:

'trust no-one'

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 20:14:18 (GMT)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: Chris!!!
Message:
Geez Chris, I'm not discouraging anything. I just told Tonette that there were lots of ways, both on line and off, for her to get the information. Doesn't that count as encouragement???? Even if someone has done this or any other sort of research about M,EV, DLM, and the head honchoes, there is no reason why someone else shouldn't duplicate it if they feel so inclined.

Was it someone else I met in London??????

Marianne

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Jul 04, 2000 at 18:18:54 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: Moi ???
Message:
Hey - what's the big deal here?

I make a fool of myself (not that difficult, admittedly) over on the French Forum; J-M doesn't want to talk about the new French laws - 'everybody knows' he says; I make a wee bit of a stand against your attitude that CAN read: 'leave it to the rest of us' (though I am somewhat re-assured by your protestation that that's not the way you meant it) and whaddya know? now I'm 'someone else' and not the person you met in London???

Uh-uh, Marianne, it's still me.

Who Tonette is I don't know. Maybe my own personal undercurrent of occasional paranoia (and who hasn't encountered theirs yet? not you, I hope) put the names Marianne and Tonette together and thought I was dealing with a Napolean!

Daft, admittedly. But then so can I be (occasionally by preference).

Oh, sod it. Let's just put this down to experience.

Then again ... (oh shut up, chris!)

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 00:22:15 (GMT)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: Moi ???
Message:
You're fine by me. Just a bit of a misunderstanding. No problem.

Marianne

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Jul 04, 2000 at 18:23:04 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: Too funny, Chris! (Let them eat cake?) nt
Message:
I think even Marianne would have to laugh at that one!
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Jul 04, 2000 at 19:17:54 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: I'm wid choo (nt)
Message:
I'm wid choo (nt)
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 20:08:28 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: on second thoughts,Marianne,ignore quoted post(nt)
Message:
on second thoughts,Marianne,ignore quoted post(nt)
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 19:48:57 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Tonette
Subject: Go for it, Tonette
Message:
Look forward to seeing what you come up with.

Hi, by the way.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 17:43:03 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: glyng@techline.com
To: Marianne
Subject: Hey Marianne...(ot chit chat)
Message:
What did you decide about the basement floor?

Oh, last night I watched Rainmaker on video. Pretty good, but the usual propoganda about lawyers. One line (occurred at the end) was something like: In every case there comes a point where you (the lawyer) cross the (ethical) line and blah, blah, blah...

I thought, what bullshit. But you know, people lap this shit up like it's gospel just because some movie says so--pisses me off. Just a rant dear, you know, Patty gone and all...

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 17:47:30 (GMT)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Hey gErRy...(ot chit chat)
Message:
Hi Gerry. It's going to be tile. I saw Rainmaker too. It is one of the Grisham films that I actually liked. His books and movies usually make one dimensional figures out of women.

How long is Patty gone to NYC for?

Marianne

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 18:00:17 (GMT)
From: gErRy
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: Hey ...(ot more chit chat)
Message:
I didn't understand why they had to throw in the part about the womean whose husband beat her and she ended up killing him. OK it added to the drama and all, but poof! there was this magic resolution and she was free from charges and investigation. After all, she did murder the guy. He was passed out on the floor and she finished him off. Not that I wasn't cheering but it seems so...well Hollywoodish, duh there's the answer! I'll bet the book was better.

Patty returns next Monday. She left Saturday and already it seems like months. I was actually feeling sorry for myself on Sunday when she hadn't yet called. What a wimp !!

The tile: Ask about hydrostatic pressure, an water force that raises hell with tile, and get a guarantee. It may not be a problem with your being on a hill, but I'd get it in writing if possible. (Just a little legal advise to my favorite lawyer, ha!)

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 05:46:20 (GMT)
From: Tonette
Email: not posted
To: Everyone
Subject: How did his kids turn out?Who gets darshan?
Message:
Am really curious as to what his kids are doing. I know Dayalata is a singer for his programs and Premlata? Are they on his payroll? Does he ever give darshan? Are the instructors paid and if so how much? What about his wife who was such a great propagator? And his sons? Is Amar getting groomed for the next act seeing as how he was born on Christmas Day? How has Maharaji got away with what he did, is doing? I think the man is dangerous, especially to unsuspecting and innocent youth and unstable adults.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 05:23:36 (GMT)
From: Help please
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Can someone help me?
Message:
About two months or so a go I wrote Maharaji out of desperation
asking for HIS help. I inquired about the humanitarian help he had on the 70s and asked if something like that existed today, because I needed help from him. What I got as his response was an email of Ira Wood which I will include further down. I would like to know if anybody EVER requested HIS help and what response if any you got...

I explained to Maharaji what my dentist told me: 'You need to save those two teeth: The imbalance you have on your jaw (caused by a car accident) will get worse if you have them extracted because it will cause even a BIGGER imbalance and greater pain!'

The pain was going to increase and not having money to save them I wrote Maharaji asking if there was some type of humanitarian help these days from his organization as there was on the 70s.

What I got was this email from Ira Wood that I have saved in my hard drive:

Dear blank, blank...

An email you sent recently was forwarded to me from Maharaji’s office. I
am an instructor and sometimes help in this regard. I would be happy to
speak to you about your request if you could forward your telephone
number to me and let me know when it is a good time to call. You can
simply reply to my email address.

Warm regards,
Ira Woods

And I did. I emailed my phone number to Ira Woods, my heart beating, thinking that the compassionate LORD would help me...He's so rich and had acquired all his rich from the effort of people like me, stupid...., and I got a phone call from Ira Woods.

I began to explain to Ira my physical discomfort and how afraid I was to have to extract the two teeth....Divorced parent and NO ONE to help, no rich family or rich friends... and he preceeded to explain that MAHARAJI DIDN'T HAVE 'THAT' kind of help these days for people...that HIS help to humanity is ONLYgiving Knowledge... I got to tell him how many thousands of dollars I spent as the video library , from my personal pocket and that I had (HAVE> every single receipt from Visions of those purchases....NO DEAL: NO HELP FROM MY LORD!!!

ANYBODY HAD A SIMILAR EXPERIENCE? WHAT DID YOU FEEL IF YOU DID???

a CONFUSED PREMIE.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 22:12:18 (GMT)
From: Maybe
Email: None
To: Help please
Subject: Tim = Pauline = You?(nt)
Message:
nt
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Jul 04, 2000 at 09:59:25 (GMT)
From: Maybe
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: Tim = PaulinePremie = You = Katie?
Message:
Same words, same use of CAPITAL letters?
An INTELLIGENT person trying to be a really STUPID premie?
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 12:15:15 (GMT)
From: Help
Email: None
To: Maybe
Subject: Tim = PaulinePremie = You = Katie?
Message:
Who are you Maybe?

If you tell me your name on the forum I tell you mine. I explained I was embarrased to see my real name (handle)here because when I contacted Maharaji I never, never expected his help, I was sure he wouldn't do shit and I email him just to convince myself what a mother fucker he is!! If you knew my 'habits' you would know that having the money to fix my teeth was not the real reason to contact Lard. I can take care of that. I wanted to prove once more what a greedy mother fucker he is. I have posted here for few months. I made a mistake-oh, me? hahahaha-when I signed confused premie...I'm always making mistakes: I'm in the process of recovering my brain. Is kind of extra rusty. I wonder why? EX CULT MEMBER!

Leave Katie alone!!

If you are a regular here you should know who help is... not a big deal. The point is, Ira Wood said that Maharaji doesn't have humanitarian work beside giving K to people. Maharaji doesn't help anybody...even when suppossedly the 'premie' is under a lot of pain. The jaw problem I have is real and the work I needed with my teeth is true too. I wasn't surprised he is an insensitive asshole: I kind of knew it all along...

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Jul 04, 2000 at 12:30:52 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Maybe
Subject: Don't ask me, ask the FA!
Message:
I don't have access (thank god!) to ISP information. I only guess by writing style, and generally have a high success rate for some reason. If you want my opinion, though, (and this is ONLY my opinion), Tim is NOT the same person as Pauline Premie. Their writing styles are different, and Pauline's posts are funnier.

Are YOU who I think you are, by the way?

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Jul 04, 2000 at 12:36:09 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Maybe
Subject: Oops, didn't understand whole title of post
Message:
See my post about 'Help' below. This is a real person, not Tim or Pauline, and the incident in question really happened. This person is not a premie anymore - I think they made that clear.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Jul 04, 2000 at 00:50:04 (GMT)
From: hELP
Email: None
To: Maybe
Subject: Furthermore...
Message:
when Ira Wood called me I contacted some exes laughing like hell because I couldn't believe that 'they' answered the email I sent to Maharaji asking for help. This is not a joke. Katie can back me up on this. I mentioned this to her when it happened around February. Katie suggested that I post it here and I was ashamed of the situation and didn't do it. Now, all is so, especial that I wanted to contribute with one more story about OUR Lord's mercy.

The email of Ira Wood included in my original post is the one he sent me, asking for my phone number.

I wanted to show Maharaji's compassion. He's so, so full of mercy, for his pockets, that is.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Jul 04, 2000 at 12:33:26 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: hELP
Subject: I can verify that 'Help Please' is not Tim...
Message:
...or Pauline Premie. This person doesn't want to reveal their identity, but the story is indeed true. (Actually, I'm amazed that they even got a reply to their letter!)
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 22:21:41 (GMT)
From: hELP
Email: None
To: Maybe
Subject: No. My story is true! (nt)
Message:
nt
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 15:07:29 (GMT)
From: Paul
Email: None
To: Help please
Subject: 'you'll know him by his works'
Message:
What has M ever given anybody? His grace? Think back over the last 30 years, what legacy does he have? What contribution has he made to society or any individual? Except to amass a few thousand deluded premies who have the need to connect their generic meditative experience with him, and who like the feeling that comes with 'surrendering' to their own personal (actually impersonal) perfect master (a spiritual S&M relationship), he has accomplished nothing accept how to live like a king off and take advantage of the spiritual neediness/gullibility of a few followers.

By convincing premies that he has given them the secret to life and happiness (which apparently doesn't even work for him), he doesn't need to do anything else. Nice work if can get it, but afterall, it was the family business.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 13:15:34 (GMT)
From: Help please
Email: None
To: any
Subject: I don't want money from you exes, I want
Message:
to know what you think about Maharaji and Ira Wood. Did anybody had a similar situation and asked maharaji for help and he turned you down, like he did with me/

I don't need $ help TODAY, I just want to understand further what type of magical, incredible GOD Maharaji is. So compassionated...I'm sure he must HAVe helped someone. Maybe I didn't deserve his help and he was trying to teach me another leasson. I haven't figure what though...

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 13:50:45 (GMT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: sirdavid12@hotmail.com
To: Help please
Subject: I don't want money from you exes, I want
Message:
Maybe Maharaji doesn't know that you exist. Unless he was God, how could he possibly know about your teeth. I have a very good dentist although he is in Kent, England, where I live. He's Chinese and very thorough and compassionate.

If you're in this area, I'll help you to get your teeth fixed, financially. But I guess you're in the USA like most people on this forum.

The question is; is Maharaji God or not? Most people here have answered that question for themselves to their own satisfaction. Most people here do not think that Maharaji is God. Do you believe that Maharaji is God and if so, why? Believe me, I do not want to judge or criticise your beliefs about Maharaji.

I used to believe that Maharaji was God but then I changed my belief. If you are afraid of criticism here on this forum, you can always talk on my forum which is The ANYTHING GOES Forum or you can email me. You can also meet on The Anything Goes Chatroom sometime to talk to people in real time.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 14:05:29 (GMT)
From: Help
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: I don't want money from you exes, I want
Message:
Maharaji said few times that he is not God, but of course, old premies still believe he is God and that he hides his identity to 'screen' the good from the bad and because he doesn't want to bring attention to him. BS

No: I don't think he's GOD

I made a mistake. I signed confused premie but I'm not a premie anymore: The day that Ira Woods called me to announce how compassionated the cult is with its member's especial needs like mine I literally vomit.

Thanks SDave for your offer but I have no problem anymore with my teeth: Visa took care of it.

I just wanted to mention it so we can all rejoice once more about Elan Vital/Maharaji's compassionated respect they have for human beings, especially for HIS servants.

The ones like me who traveled two, three days ahead of time before programs 'to make all beautiful for the Lord' many times and bought unnecesary items from HIS garbage Sales Stands, ONLY because I WAS BRAINWASHED!! oh! That brings genuine pleasure to remember and also, it keeps me focussed if not I feel like begining my walk to Malibu to take care of this matter personally. Is just a matter of time, something tells me.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 05:34:29 (GMT)
From: Tonette
Email: not posted
To: Help please
Subject: Get a grip!
Message:
The only thing Maharaji is intersted in helping is: himself and his family to other people's money. He's never helped anyone but has just taken, not given anything really that was his to give. Oh excuse me, show. Aren't his children just real wonderfully contributive members of society? Oh Maharaji your good works are endless. What exactly are they? And what exactly is your net worth? Honey he needs to spend the money needed to fix your teeth or to save your life on his next Rolex watch!!!!
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 05:51:36 (GMT)
From: Help Please
Email: None
To: Tonette
Subject: Get a grip!
Message:
Well...I didn't expect it YOUR reality check!!!

So? Your answer is that he's an ashole??

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 03:41:42 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: I want IDEAS on LINKS for Michael Moore
Message:
There is so much....please, help!! What is the most relevant material FOR THIS OCASSION?? Ocassion meaning: EV/Maharaji's nerves!!
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 05:26:28 (GMT)
From: Tonette
Email: if u need it
To: SB
Subject: Want some old audio tapes?
Message:
I was never a shaker or mover within Elan Vital but I would be very happy to relate some of the brainwashing techniques. Got some old audio from the 70's. Old magazines. Gosh, go for it. There's a whole network out here. Besides I can still get into programs and my husband is an active premie. Goes to programs when in town. Got a great picture of him in his Krisna costume.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 05:49:35 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: Tonette
Subject: Want some old audio tapes?
Message:
Thank you SO much for your interest and support!! I need that...personalitY flaws known HERE = ADVANTAGE!!

Good that you have 'that' kind of materiaL because it may be unique!! I may have different material than you and I have lots of it!!! Lets keep in touch...

Have you given your email address? WorrIED about certain 'entities' I'D NEVER posted my email address... Have you? I sent a email to PR MAIN person OF Elan Vital( TERRY YINGLING) today, so, my game of covering my identity is no longer necessary.... I wait TO GIVE YOU my email address...for FEW minutes...hahahahha...LOL

The possibilities about the whole matter are incredibly ENDLESSS...fun using HIS words....

Love IS REAL!!!

SB

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 04:14:06 (GMT)
From: Tonette
Email: Not posted
To: SB
Subject: I want IDEAS on LINKS for Michael Moore
Message:
Who exactly is Michael Moore?
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 04:48:14 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: Tonette
Subject: I want IDEAS on LINKS for Michael Moore
Message:
Michael Moore has a TV program called 'The Awful Truth' and he is up to expose the fraudeulent elements of our societies!! And I happen to know him for another matter through email so I decided to contact him: OUR LORD GURU MAHARAJI NEEDS EXPOSURE!! Everybody on this Earth deserves to know that the Savior Is Here!!

Truth Wins Alway!! Well... almost. Let's hope that some of us get pissed enough to decide to do SOMETHING ABOUT IT!! Write as much as U can!!

Love,

SB

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 03:57:36 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: SB
Subject: Explanation about MOORE
Message:
I promised Michael Moore to send links to the most relevant ISSUES against Lard. Please help!! I got carried away and I want to make it happen: THE LORD OF THE UNIVERSE DESERVES TO BE ON THE AWFUL TRUTH!! The LORD needs our help!!
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 03:56:53 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: SB
Subject: I want IDEAS on LINKS for Michael Moore
Message:
I suggest the Maharaji Responsibility Campaign Letter (www.openlettertomaharaji.org), the Bob Mishler interview, the 'Breaking Free' portion of this site, Jean-Michel's site about the legal battle (don't have the URL, but it's at J-M's former EV/DLM Papers site) and AJW's (Anthony's) Journey. Plus other people's Journeys as time permits.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 03:59:49 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: I want IDEAS on LINKS for Michael Moore
Message:
I got that!! Any more there???

hehehehehe...

This is FUN: THIS IS STANDING FOR THE TRUTH!!

Thanks Katie!!!!

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 04:08:29 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: SB
Subject: The ex-premie.org home page! (nt)
Message:
nt
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 18:53:53 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Katie and SB
Subject: don't forget this (non ex-premie.org) testimony:
Message:
don't forget this (non ex-premie.org) testimony:

from BRAINWASHED! A CULT SURVIVOR’S TALE by Arthur Chappell (another good 'journey', though, for some reason, not yet published here)

PS to Mike Moore, he also likes dressing up in Dracula garb.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 02:47:31 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Who got the teeth??? (nt) OT
Message:
(nt)
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 03:23:54 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: SB
Subject: Not us, but we could use a few around here! (nt)
Message:
nt
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 03:39:27 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: I just got a phone call!!
Message:
I know 'WHO' has them!!

SNICKER!! Triple ROFL!! Read your email. Got you!!

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jul 02, 2000 at 23:44:24 (GMT)
From: wilbur
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: I was there, and I am here
Message:
There's something in the air. Have the aims of the organisation changed then?

England, oh England. Oh, Alexandra Palace. It's a lot bigger than you think......

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 03:45:51 (GMT)
From: Tonette
Email: Not posted
To: wilbur
Subject: I was there, and I am here
Message:
Oh yes! He's gradually transforming into the 'MASTER' again. Funds must be short
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 04:03:22 (GMT)
From: Top of the Line Lawyers
Email: None
To: Tonette
Subject: He has to pay us!! hmmm...(nt)
Message:
nt
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 04:20:40 (GMT)
From: Tonette
Email: Not posted
To: Top of the Line Lawyers
Subject: He has to pay us!! hmmm...(nt)
Message:
My husband is a premie and goes to his programs.The lord is definately gearing up for something!I think it will happen in Amaroo.Not tomorrow but too soon for me.Calling all true DEVOTEES!Actually he's just started feeding off the the next generation's children coming of age but the pickings are slim.Oh I never thought I would want the IRS to examine anyone but gee, if only those came forth that could testify.....
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 04:58:57 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: Tonette
Subject: He has to pay us!! hmmm...(nt)
Message:
And you have witnessed your husband's behavior, right? Make a VERY CONCERNED lettter and send it to your State Representative, Your Congressman/woman, the Attorney General of your district and to the President of the US!! THEY WORK FOR US!! The tax payers pay their paychecks!! DIDN'T GET AN ANSWER FROM THEM? Write AGAIN!! His move cannot be overlooked!!

This is our chance!! Maharaji made a BAD,BAD move!! Lets take advantage of it!!


Regarding your concern that 'something' is going to happen: Nothing more than Maharaji taking care of his pockets. He has to increase the programs and its intensity to silence the followers doubts...and to get HIS money. Don't worry. He just want to maintain the brainwashing up to date to avoid straight cats running away....if you know what I mean...

Wishing you the best....

SB

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 00:45:15 (GMT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: wilbur
Subject: I was there, and I am here
Message:
No the aims of the organisation haven't changed. Still the same aim - keep Maharaji in expensive Cognac, Marlboro fags and keep his jet in the air.

What's in the air is Maharaji's cigarette smoke and jet fumes.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jul 02, 2000 at 23:34:06 (GMT)
From: Way
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Response to Elan Vital
Message:
I, too, have noted that Elan Vital has now officially responded to its critics. The last remaining vestige of the premie in me was saddened, sickened, and angered by their response.

For a long time, ex-premies have debated mostly with current fringe premies who do not speak for Mr. Rawat anyway. Now, for those ex-premies who wish to, it is possible to object more directly to Mr. Rawat and his present official organization.

Elan Vital is working very hard to provide the best impression they can of their teacher, their cult, and their beliefs. Who are they trying to convince? Their intended audience is their possible new recruits, and themselves. For those exes who are still up for the war of words, our audience should be the same people, the new recruits and those who remain in Mr. Rawat's cult.

Since there are so many things that Elan Vital will never come clean about, I think this site should continue to bring out everything under the rug that Mr. Rawat has swept there. I suggest a permanent link on this site to a collection of quotes from Shri Hans, Mr. Rawat, Marilyn, and other close associates - all the claims and teachings from their own mouths that they would so much like to hide away for ever.

We should challenge every bit of the mis-information that Glen Whittaker and the rest of them have now put out officially. We should argue against every distortion, every distinction without difference that they try to get away with, every partial truth, every pretty lie.

It can now be said clearly that Mr. Rawat still claims that his Knowledge reveals the inner experience of the infinite. 'Knowledge is about you...that part of you which is infinite.' -Maharaji, Elan Vital Website, July 2000. It is claimed that practicing the Knowledge allows people to reasonably say that they are 'in touch with the divinity or the timeless within themselves' (but they would never claim that this is a state of 'God-consciousness',oh no). Mr. Rawat still claims to be the indispensable Master of the Knowledge and must be followed at all stages of development, (but this of course does not make him a charasmatic spiritual leader, oh no - that would be a cult). So - nothing has changed, only the words have changed to suit the intended audience.

As I said above, I suggest that there be established an area of this website or some other site where ex-premies can post pertinent quotes (from Shri Hans, Maharaji and other very close associates) that they find in old AIID's, Divine Times, etc. These quotes should counteract Elan Vital's assertion that Maharaji never claimed to be God Incarnate, etc. To start, I suggest a quote from Marilyn Rawat, Sydney, Australia, Nov. 26, 1974:

All of you have waited so long for Maharaji to come, and we could feel it so much that now Maharaji is finally here, every heart is full...Because that's the reason we're here, to know that love that is infinite. And now, having Maharaji's darshan here, it's like no one can even understand what darshan is. I just hope all of you can somehow empty yourselves of all your ideas and concepts and just really let him fill you. Really experience that. Because there's no denying it. There's really nothing else to say. So now I think the best thing to do is to have everyone come up and have the darshan of Maharaji, to do pranam at his feet, and realize what he's truly giving us in this moment. Because, really, as you go to do pranam you're the most fortunate human being in this world. Thank you.

from 'And It is Divine', Vol.2, Issue 8, March 1975

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Jul 04, 2000 at 00:12:37 (GMT)
From: Han
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: The ultimate question,,,?
Message:
Way,
You quoted,, ' Knowledge is about You,, that part of you
which is infinite.' 'It is claimed that the practicing of Knowledge allows people to reasonably say that they are in touch with the divinity, or the 'timeless' within themselves.'

Let me pose this question, Way,, If someone,,anyone,,I mean if anyone came to you and said I can show you that part of your self that is 'infinite'...... would you not spend your whole life,, spend everything manmade, give up anything....just to feel that infinite thing inside of you.....even for just one minute in your life.

I know you pondered that question long long ago,, as we all have.
The only difference seems that now you don't believe the experience you were shown,,is that part of you which is infinite.

You are entitled to your opinion, Way, but never doubt that, most assuredly,there will always be people on this planet who will seek to find that most beautiful place within, and there will always be someone there to reveal it.
It doesn't matter what you call it,,it doesn't matter what you call the revealer. None of that matters.... It's just there to experience.

Very respectfully yours,
peace always,
Han

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 15:09:10 (GMT)
From: Way
Email: None
To: Han
Subject: To Han re:The ultimate question,,,?
Message:
Han,

I will attempt to answer your post in the spirit and tone that it was delivered. First, let me explain why I object to that particular quote from Mr. Rawat. Mr. Rawat and Elan Vital are attempting to present themselves as a non-spiritual non-organization led by a non-leader advocating a non-divine experience. Why can't they just come clean? Who are they trying to fool? Why the endless play on words that only confuses the issues?

I am not objecting to the human effort to get in touch with the timeless. Not one bit. I am objecting to Mr. Rawat taking that natural human instinct and creating a cult around himself using and abusing timeless truths, and then pretending with all his might that there is no cult. It's absurd. When you tell people that you can put them in touch with the divine within if only they will accept you as the Master, you have created a cult, by the simplest, most obvious definition of the word. I object to Mr. Rawat's particular cult because I know that my experience of my own higher self is not dependent in any way on Mr. Rawat, his four techniques, his videos, his presence on stage, etc.

As far as the question you pose to me personally about dedicating completely to the experience of the Infinite, you can read my journey entry, if you wish. I attempted to approach the higher self years before I heard of Guru Maharaj Ji. The experience that you say 'I was shown' in the Knowledge session is absolutely no different than the experience I had had earlier using TM or the other approaches I used. No different in any way whatsoever. It is my own inner self as it has always been, for God's sake. And now, after I have renounced Mr. Rawat's particular influence, I continue to approach the Infinite in my own way. I do not use the four techniques but a single technique that I find most effective. When the mind quiets, I relax; when the mind awakes, I become conscious; when the light comes, I look at it, when the feeling of compassion (Holy Name) overflows me, I can trust in the universe, as it is now, and my little place in it. These are the natural graces of being a human being. They are not revealed by a revealer, as you put it.

There will always be a revealer, you say. This is our disagreement. Where is it written that God needs a human revealer to reveal himself to anyone? If that is written anywhere, it was undoubtedly written by a guru. There is nothing wrong with encourageing people to reach their highest potential, or even advocating some meditation techniques, but there is something wrong with making people dependent on your particular approach and influence, which only weakens them and takes them away from their own power.

With respect,

Way

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 03:35:43 (GMT)
From: Han
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: To Way, re:The ultimate question,,,?
Message:
Way,
Thank you, for your response.
In the question I posed I asked if 'someone', 'anyone' could show you a way inside to that infinite place, would you not do absolutely anything to experience it, even for one minute in your life? Your reply insinuated borderline bigotry, name calling,
and a basic justification of your own paranoia.

Shocking isn't it? I know you didn't expect that, but hang with me for a second. this isn't personal.
When you classifiy a group of unrelated individuals who are having a personal, internal experience as a 'cult', I become offended as if I were being stereotyped by a racist...are you familiar with that feeling?

This is not about being in a 'group'. It never has been.

This is just my personal take on your accusations...
What you perceive to be a 'cult'is your own creation.
A creation formulated to justify and rationalize the fact that
you no longer want or need this 'external support group' in your
life. If you and others are joining together to renounce your involvement, or 'the influence',as you said, then it becomes evident that your need for group support is as necessary now, as it was back when you 'Joined' DLM years ago. You know as well as I do there was never anything to join. You are your own person now,,and hopefully you made rational decisions back then.

I apologize if this sounds like an attack, Way, It is not. It's just my personal view, that's all. Can you see the Relative perception in it all? I've been practicing for 28yrs. and it's always been a very individual personal experience for me.
You perceive your experience in your way. That's fine.
Yes, I bonded with my Teacher...Your need to classify me for that is a little 'scary'...for gods sake, it's my personal experience.
Certainly, some religious people with some extremely sincere devotional practices are not even 'classified' in such ways...
I guess it's not nearly as threatening to have 6 billion people devoted to a few dead guys. I used to be a devout Roman Catholic,,, are you following me? It's like me now attacking the pope. (smile)

It seems our differences are Really,,, semantics, perspective, and relativity. Two people experiencing the same thing within need not create such an insurmountable riff between them.

Here's something funny, I used to know Jim from Miami,,way back, and he was one tough SOB even back then. He was a very capable guy. Mr. Do anything. A man's man in the real sense. I'm not just blowin smoke here,,,, Never once did I ever or would I ever mistake him for some kind of 'cultist'... as is portrayed on this site. There are not just a few misunderstandings around here.
Mine included.
Things have changed Way,,
The inside thing doesn't.
As for your last paragraph, it's not written anywhere,,,It's just fact. People will always need Teachers,, someone to point the way,,

You take care,
Han

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 15:38:46 (GMT)
From: Way
Email: None
To: Han
Subject: Back to Han re:The ultimate question,,,?
Message:
Han,

I very much agree that the difference of opinion between us is partly just semantics that could be worked out. For instance, this word cult and all that it may or may not imply to people. I try to use the word in its most general sense which is not necessarily objectionable in all cases. The only reason it has its negative connotations is that so many cults are run by charlatans.

I have no problem with being a part of a group. Instead of cult, we might use the word community. In fact, community is a most important and most natural ingredient for people. I very much enjoyed being a part of a community and would still like to have that support. Mr. Rawat use to stress the word 'community.' I think he made a big mistake when the communities were weakened. They should have been strengthened, because people do in fact need that kind of local support.

Of course our main and obvious difference concerns the need for a guru. I do not object to 'teacher,' and I can name a few that I admire, for instance Joseph Campbell. Mr. Rawat has adopted the word 'teacher' because it has good connotations, but as I said I object very much to word games. A spade is best called a spade. Yes? I believe that Mr. Rawat is a fraud, and you evidently think he is an authentic (fill in the noun), worthy of your devotion, or maybe just your attention - which is it? Learning from a teacher is a great deal different from devoting yourself to a guru. When I say that Mr. Rawat is a fraud, this is not an instance of name-calling, like rotten scum, or something. I am saying 'fraud' because that is precisely my opinion. To me, he is not a teacher, he is a guru, and a fake one. To me, all gurus are fakes. Read about Swami Kriyananda, Sai Baba, Da Love Ananda, Rajneesh, Muktananda, Gurumayi, and hundreds of others.

If we continue to correspond, I think we should try to take a singular issue, one at a time, and be careful for semantics and mischaracterizations. For instance, you may actually view Mr. Rawat as nothing but a teacher who you enjoy listening to. If that is the case, then I can't really object because that is a personal preference and there is nothing wrong with that. The only thing I would say to that stance is that I personally disagree - I do not find his discourse very intelligent or inspiring and in fact I have often been actually turned off by what I experience as simplistic, insulting, and even vulgar commentary on normal human experience combined with terribly overblown claims and silly evasions.

Finally, as for the specific question that you pose, I will answer directly even though it is a troublesome question. I'm not sure if you mean if somebody, anybody claimed to me able show me the Infinite, or actually could show me the Infinite, what would I do? In the first case, if anyone told me that they could show me the Infinite, I wouldn't believe them and I would walk away. But if I felt for some reason that they actually could show me the Infinite, I would still walk away, because as a finite creature, I think slow annihilation by degree is better than one quick pop. I would be afraid that my circuits would be blown beyond repair. The mind is delicate, yes? I'm pretty sure that my answer probably avoids the point of your question, but perhaps you could express the point differently.

The fact that you have been around for 28 years and you were in Miami in the early days makes your perspective an interesting one. You also discuss more respectfully than most premies here. Thanks.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 12:21:49 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Han
Subject: You've got the wrong guy, you idiot
Message:
I never lived in Miami.

Beside that, why do all you cult members -- sorry, MOST of you cult members, but you're a fine example -- have to be so illiterate? Is it supposed to look spiritual or something? 'Rustically uneducated'? Is that the look?

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 17:19:39 (GMT)
From: Joey
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: Way, thank you for this post (nt)
Message:
nt
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Jul 04, 2000 at 16:31:07 (GMT)
From: Rob
Email: None
To: Han
Subject: Hope you have your cloaking device on
Message:
Hey Han

Are you proud of all this BS you're dumping here? I hope so, because the latest wheeze is to forward all premie posts to EV/ELK complete with ISP info etc.

Just think, m. himself may get to read it! You'll probably get a special mention at the next event.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Jul 04, 2000 at 01:29:21 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Han
Subject: What's with your retarded punctuation?
Message:
Han,

Nothing you say either makes sense or is worth reading. But your misuse of the comma is fascinating. Where'd you pick that up? Your local joke shop? You get a few Three Stooges ties at the same time?

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Jul 04, 2000 at 04:05:15 (GMT)
From: Han
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: your absolutely right,,,
Message:
I should have known better,,,than to try and have a constructive conversation, albeit a counterpoint of view, with someone I respect,,, without receiving a dose of your unsolicited trite cynicism.

Just a pause in thought now,,,,,, why is it that any little
counterpoint puts you in such a bad mood.
What DO you do to chill out, anyway,,,, if 'k' was so hard on you,,, if it screwed you up so bad,,, what's your alternative?
I'm all ears Ji

sincerely,
han

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Jul 04, 2000 at 04:31:40 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Han
Subject: You don't have a 'viewpoint'
Message:
You cult members continue to claim that your 'experience' is non-negotiable, ineffable, blah, blah, blah. Even saying THAT's too much, isn't it? I mean, we're talking so far beyond words,,,,,,,,,,well, at least THAT far, right?

So how can you have any viewpoint at all? You can't. You're in a cult. Whatever Maharaji says and that's about it. Fuck off.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Jul 04, 2000 at 15:28:25 (GMT)
From: Han
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: That's your Mantra,,isn't it?
Message:
Jim,

You actually believe that???

I was hoping for something a little more inspiring,,,
Negativity in itself is self defeating.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Jul 04, 2000 at 16:06:27 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Han
Subject: I don't do 'mantra' and I don't do 'inspiring'
Message:
Quit talking new-age spiritual bullshit talk at me.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Jul 04, 2000 at 02:58:31 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Maybe he's mimicking
Message:
One comma just won't do, he wants a looong pause.

He wants to be just like his 'Master'.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 03:53:52 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: I support WAY's LINK idea!! Read WAY's post!!!
Message:
That is a VERY good idea. Thanks WAY.

Love,

SB

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 03:41:51 (GMT)
From: Tonette
Email: Netguest42@yahoo.com
To: Way
Subject: Response to Elan Vital
Message:
The man is dangerous. He may not be desparate but if his funds dries out he will be!!
No telling what he would ask of his followers but from what I can infer from his last program DEVOTION to the 'MASTER' is on his agenda.
Isn't there a savy lawyer or someone from the IRS who can expose this fraud?
Anyone know any US senators? Yes Maharaji and Jim Jones are very similar!
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 03:50:10 (GMT)
From: Malibu Attorney General
Email: None
To: Tonette
Subject: Response to Elan Vital
Message:
JUST WRITE YOUR COMPLAINS TO ME...I DO THE REST!!

I need proof...I need statements...

Firts: Clarify between you ALL (IN PRIVATE) what are the most relevant points and send them to me...

I'll be happy to serve you.

'IF YOU DON'T KNOW YOUR RIGHTS, YOU DON'T HAVE ANY RIGHTS.'

Sweetly,

Attorney General

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 16:28:57 (GMT)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: Malibu Attorney General
Subject: I would not respond to this
Message:
Some of these posts today sound awfully much like someone trying to be an ex rather than someone who really is.

Apologies if you are exes, Malibu AG and Tonette.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 20:47:09 (GMT)
From: MAG
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: An EX forever, Marianne (nt)
Message:
nt
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 21:42:11 (GMT)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: MAG
Subject: Thanks, MAG
Message:
I'm very cautious these days.

Marianne

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 03:34:22 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: mishkat@gateway.net
To: Way
Subject: Thank you, Way
Message:
I intend to write a rebuttal to Elan Vital's FAQ. I may not get this done immediately (the real world is making demands on me - including some plants in a greenhouse which need twice-daily care), but I WILL do it. I will take quotes off this forum, and if anyone cares to e-mail me with comments, I'd be happy. I will not attribute quotes, by the way, unless specifically asked to by someone posting under their real name.

Thanks to TD, by the way, for providing the first-hand information about darshan in Australia during the late 90's. Things like this truly refute the idea that it was only the 'hippie' premies of the 1970's who wanted the Hindu trappings.

Re the Elan Vital FAQ, Way - I agree. As Courtney Love said (or screamed - to get the true effect, you gotta scream it): 'IT MAKES ME SICK!'.

Take care,
Katie

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jul 02, 2000 at 23:38:37 (GMT)
From: Joey
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: Great post Way !
Message:
We should challenge every bit of the mis-information that Glen Whittaker and the rest of them have now put out officially. We should argue against every distortion, every distinction without difference that they try to get away with, every partial truth, every pretty lie.

And we shall!

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jul 02, 2000 at 22:31:17 (GMT)
From: gErRy
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Ya still need the Massah...
Message:
Doesn't that ignoramus realize the term 'Master' has some ugly and painful connotations in this country? Kinda like the Confederate flag, I would say. How come so few black people in this country are invited to receive the 'Knowledge of Knowledges' anyway? In my video, I didn't see ONE person of color in the audience. Just a bunch of fat, greying stiffies. Real fucking inspiring and a real fun looking bunch. Can't wait to hook up.

So why the fuck does anyone still need goober in order for the big K to work? (bearing in mind it 'works' for so few people actually)

As Maharaji explains: “The master teaches, and Knowledge makes it real. It's not just empty words or endless discussion. Because there is the experience of Knowledge, that gives credence to the words of the master, but without the words of the master, Knowledge becomes static. It becomes no more than a list of instructions on a piece of paper.”

Oh, is this the revision of the old grace theory ??? Without the words of the master, Knowledge becomes static? Is this the experience of you meditators out there? You need goober to grease the cosmic skids? Is that it? Sounds more like circular reasoning to me.

So I guess goober is still an essential ingredient in the mix. And what was that cake we're trying to bake again? Jeez, I'm really getting confused here. But this isn't a cult, is it. Noooooo.

And for a wrap up, here's the words of that modern day Kabir, Janice Baldwin (and yes, I too would like to squeeze her face hard.)

Janice Wilson: Something rare and highly valued

I don't know what is going on (you got that part right, honey) I seem to be meeting people almost every day now who are interested in Knowledge, in joy and in beauty.

I guess when you live in the desert of this world, water is rare and highly valued.

So why shouldn't I share the fact that this water, this joy, this Knowledge is being freely given, by the most kind and generous of givers?


Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 19:27:33 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: gErRy
Subject: 'the most kind and generous of givers' ???
Message:
'the most kind and generous of givers' ???

what? ... the one with the Gulfstream private jet? the mansion in Malibu? the diamond watches? ... (too many to mention).

Perhaps she should call him 'the most possessive and mercenary of takers'! - seeing that his current wealth only came about as a result of how good a beggar he was.

More donations, anyone?

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jul 02, 2000 at 22:55:04 (GMT)
From: Lotus Eater
Email: None
To: gErRy
Subject: Ya still need the Massah...oh yes boss
Message:
Janice Wilson writes:
'so why shouldn't I share'

I hope she tries to answer her own question.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jul 02, 2000 at 18:51:03 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Boy, would I love to discuss this with them!
Message:
Here's a bit of Glen Whittaker's historical bullshit from the 'Perspectives' part of the 'Feedback' section in the new FAQ's on EV:

Hindu Influences

During 1972 and 73, there was a massive increase in numbers of people receiving Knowledge. The word spread quickly along the youth-culture grapevines, and people from most European countries turned up in London, stayed a few months in the ambience of Knowledge, then returned to start up activities at home. Like seeds from a tree, some traveled far, and Knowledge gained footholds in Australia, Japan and New Zealand. Maharaji's tours of North America created a similar enthusiasm in the States. Again, the planning was disorganized and ran on a one-day-at-a-time basis. During his first visit to Denver and its near neighbor Boulder, however, in 1971, Maharaji encountered an exceptionally enthusiastic reception, and the Colorado State capital was to become his first American base. In due course, the Divine Light Mission headquarters for North America would take over two floors of a Denver city center office building.
In a way, everything looked good, but under the surface there were serious problems that would have to be dealt with by Maharaji and the organizations supporting his teaching.

One of these was the Hindu interpretation of Knowledge, which tied it in closely to a set of beliefs that would later need to be abandoned. From the beginning, for example, it was a given, in the Indian context, that practicing Knowledge provided an experience of God, and that continual practice would lead to a state called Realization, a permanent God-consciousness.

Tens of thousands of people practice Knowledge, resulting in a profound experience of peace and inner joy. They may well interpret this as being in touch with the divinity or the timeless within themselves, but no-one would now actually claim to be in a state of God-consciousness as it was originally portrayed by the Hindu interpretation. This defined Maharaji's work in a particular way that in the long term would not make it very accessible to some people, but at the time it dovetailed well into the hippy belief that 'we are all one with God - we just need to realize it'.

Another tenet of Hindu belief that was accepted without question was reincarnation - the theory that the soul does not expire at death, nor does it go to heaven, but it travels from body to body, until in the end, all karma worked out, it reaches the point of no return and becomes one with infinity. As a Hindu interpretation, Maharaji spoke very little about this theory; it was his mother and brother who made it a central issue of Knowledge. Reincarnation was one of the basic tenets of early Divine Light Mission philosophy in the West that Maharaji was later to abandon as unnecessary baggage. Seeing that it obviously pandered to people's concerns about the afterlife and was rooted in one tradition's interpretation, Maharaji's view was: 'Believe what you like about life after death; Knowledge puts you in touch with your inner being now, whilst alive.'

Beside these obvious Indian influences there was also the cultural background itself. Instead of just bringing the seed of Knowledge, Maharaji said later in an apt metaphor, 'they brought the entire garden'. This garden included the Indian notion of the ashram, vegetarianism, and Hindu trappings of worship, such as the devotional hymn 'Arti', the kissing of the teacher's feet as a mark of reverence and respect, called 'darshan', and other Hindu rituals. As Maharaji said later; 'the shelf got so crowded there was a danger of Knowledge itself slipping off and no-one noticing'.

'77-'82: Taking Stock

An historian looking back on the years 1977 to 1982 would characterize them as a period where Maharaji relished the chance to live in unison with his students in an atmosphere of mutual admiration and enjoyment. Events he attended, many international, took on the form of three, five, or even seven day festivals, his colloquial but inspiring talks interspersed with live music. It was a commonplace, but always looked forward to, occurrence that at the end of these events, Maharaji would, in traditional Indian clothes, stand and dance on the stage, releasing an eruption of approval as the crowd danced with him. When the euphoria had subsided, it was followed by the quietness and intensely devotional feeling of the singing of 'Arti', a traditional Hindu devotional hymn to the master.

The Early '80's - A New Seriousness

This period came to an end in the early 1980's, which saw major changes in Maharaji's work and in the organizations supporting it. After years of a rather carefree approach, there came a growing recognition that there was serious work to be done, making the message of Knowledge available to a world that contained many social strata and a myriad cultures, nationalities and belief systems.
Stripped to its bare necessities, Maharaji was offering a method of focusing internally in such a way that the energy of life could be tapped into. Whatever feelings and understandings might emerge from this were for the individuals themselves to define, if they wished. Many changes came into being which reflected this more secular approach to the whole topic of Knowledge, so that it could be equally accessible to anyone.

This led to the demise of the Divine Light Missions, with their spiritual interpretation of Knowledge, and the beginning of Elan Vitals, also non-profit or charitable organizations but this time with an educational purpose teaching people how to go within. The name was adopted from the work of the French philosopher Henri Bergson, and referred to the urge to achieve self-fulfillment. In the United States, it required a name change only; in other countries, new organizations were started.


Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 21:01:07 (GMT)
From: killer
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: 77 to 82 was 'carefree approach'??
Message:
His talks were 'colloquial'??
He 'relished the chance to live in unison ... in an atmosphere of mutual respect'????

GlenWhitaker is a liar of the first order!

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Jul 04, 2000 at 18:59:53 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: killer
Subject: 77 to 82 was 'heavy devotional period'!
Message:
At least from 77 to about 80. That's one of the reasons I left then!
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 00:14:52 (GMT)
From: Daneane
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: You have
Message:
You and many others whose questions and presence has affected their new site.

As nauseating as the content may be to you long time ex-premie.org contributors...it seems too clear to me that you've forced the issue.

They addressed things previously ignored...even if their answers are bullshit...they still had to attempt something.

In a way...the flimsy-ness of their answers exposes their simpleton gibberish all the more.

I can't imagine it wouldn't also encourage people to check out this 'web info' they refer to.

I think you exes should fucking love that you continue to befuddle and remain an annoyance to them. If your comments held no truth, they probably wouldn't worry in the least.

For the life of me I cannot figure out why they don't just full on ignore this site and go on their merry way. Their continued attention to this site and futile half-assed attempted to censor just prove to me the truth and validity of the information expressed here.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 00:46:04 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Daneane
Subject: Thanks, Daneane, I guess you're right
Message:
What I really look forward to, though, is a real, live confrontation. You know, the real addictive part of being a criminal defence lawyer is cross-examining evasive and lying people or people who're so obviously hiding from the truth none of their own words add up. What can I tell you? It's fun.

So I know, oh yes I know, how much fun it would be to go after this pack of lies. Is that a sick pleasure? Who cares? It's fun!

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 18:30:40 (GMT)
From: ham
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: 'Is that a sick pleasure? Who cares? It's fun!'
Message:
Perfect, Jim, just perfect.

It's succinct nd the crazy thing is it's fucking DEEP too, that statement.

'Sick pleasures', can you imagine a premie response to such a concept!!

And definitely some fucking dark drum& bass for you mr mindwarp.

Luv ya

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 03:43:26 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Thanks, Daneane, I guess you're right
Message:
Is getting there...what is your phone number again?
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jul 02, 2000 at 22:52:11 (GMT)
From: TD
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: I kissed his feet in 1996/97, so the garden...
Message:
...wasn't quite left behind, was it?
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jul 02, 2000 at 22:05:26 (GMT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Yeah, me too
Message:
We could start off with this:

Instead of just bringing the seed of Knowledge, Maharaji said later in an apt metaphor, 'they brought the entire garden'. This garden included the Indian notion of the ashram, vegetarianism, and Hindu trappings of worship, such as the devotional hymn 'Arti', the kissing of the teacher's feet as a mark of reverence and respect, called 'darshan', and other Hindu rituals. As Maharaji said later; 'the shelf got so crowded there was a danger of Knowledge itself slipping off and no-one noticing'.

Who's they? The way Maharaji speaks, you'd think he had nothing to do with it. Wasn't he the head of the organization, the overseer? Who's this they he's talking about? And where is his sense of reponsibility in taking the blame for mistakes made in the way things are run? What kind of leader blames somebody else for his mistakes? Oh, that's right. M's not a leader. Well, call him what you want. He was the recognized head of DLM, and later of Elan Vital. If things weren't run in either organization the way he wanted them to be, who's he going to blame? A responsible individual would blame himself. I mean, who the fuck else was in charge here? Again, who's they???

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jul 02, 2000 at 19:38:19 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: It's the little stuff that's insidious
Message:
Even with all the revisionism, spin doctoring etc., Maharaji's ''message'' is still toxic. Take for example, this minor, seemingly innoculous quote:

However even when he’s had to take someone to task he always follows up with a reassurance that mistakes happen not because people are stupid or incapable, just that they have forgotten to be conscious of their actions.

Maharaji’s own take on this: 'When you slip on a banana skin, you can’t blame the banana or the person who threw it there. It was you, through a moment of unconsciousness, didn’t look where you were walking.'

Blame. That seems to be a big issue with him. Or rather, displacing blame on to other people. I mean, come on now, how many people watch their feet when walking? I guess a few myopes do consistently, but most of us notice what's around us, and only occasionally glance down. If there's an obstacle present that's not supposed to be there and we fall, does that automatically infer a 'lack of consciousness?' Of course not, but in goober's world all blame lies with the individual, in the new age manner of ''we create our own reality.'' A small point maybe, but it ''points'' towards a bigger attitude.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 19:19:01 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: what of the banana-skin of 'guru is greater than..
Message:
Maharaji’s own take on this: 'When you slip on a banana skin, you can’t blame the banana or the person who threw it there. It was you, through a moment of unconsciousness, didn’t look where you were walking.'

'It was you...'???

yeah, like it's never him, is it?

what of the banana-skin of
'Guru is greater than God'?,
of his 'Holy Family'?
or of the biggest banana skin he's yet slipped up on - the mass-destruction of the literary material relating to his claims to be the Saviour.

No doubt that was his premies' fault too.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jul 02, 2000 at 21:31:02 (GMT)
From: Joey
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: 'insidious' is right on, gerry!
Message:

Excellent point, Gerry, and I'm glad you called goober on his 'banana peel' statement.

What m ISN'T addressing, is the question of where do all these banana peels come from.
Of course they come from no one else other than goober himself and his accomplice lackeys.
And should little premieji approach m to complain that,
'Maharaji, people are playing with my head here,'
well, m will probably answer as he has in the past:

Maybe if your head wasn't so big, people wouldn't want to play with it !

Yup...I guess isidious is the only word.
Well actually, there may be a few others :)

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jul 02, 2000 at 21:53:27 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Joey
Subject: thanks Joey and...
Message:
Last night I listened to the only video I own of this inane, blathering con man. Talk about shallowness and lack of substance, goober should take a patent out on it. I honest to gawd can't see what people get out of his drivel. Mr. Rogers is more inspiring and certainly shows more common sense!
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jul 02, 2000 at 19:49:41 (GMT)
From: Mili
Email: mili@cheerful.com
To: gerry
Subject: It's the little stuff that's insidious
Message:
Astounding analysis, Gerry! Just amazing. I'm impressed.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jul 02, 2000 at 20:00:35 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Mili
Subject: Thanks, Mili I appreciate your graditude
Message:
Mili, that was kinda mean. After all, I did say it was a little point. Is this the same Mili who

1) tried to shut down our newsgroup by telling Usenet you had the support of a whole bunch of people when, in truth, you'd just grabbed a bunch of names from all the people who'd ever posted on Harlan's page, even when it turned out that all sorts of exes were amongst them? Usenet told you to fuck off for being such a slimeball too, didn't they? Or something to that effect, no?

2) threaten to punch out the 'original' David if you ever saw him outside a program afe yeras ago, didn't you? I mean, that wasn't some other Mili, was it? You know, with all these aliases and people just using first names and stuff, I could be mistaken. What's your recollection of that incident? I seem to recall a big discussion and how that confirmed -- possibly even spawned -- the 'no threats' policy here. Wasn't it something like that?

3) told some woman here who posted about being sexually abused in the cult that she must be a liar and is probably an old, fat hag anyway, or, again, something like that?

4) tried to shut down the only discussion that ever really started on yours and Harlan's page, the discussion where one premie started talking about Maharaji as the Lord and the other premie took issue with that. You DID tell them that debates of that nature weren't allowed on your forum, didn't you?

Perhaps I don't quite have your powers of analysis Mili, but I am curious about your response to the above. Thanks.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jul 02, 2000 at 12:07:34 (GMT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: sirdavid12@hotmail.com
To: Everyone
Subject: Premies peddle porn for their master
Message:
And that's official!

Ever since I put my sirdavid12@hotmail.com email address on this forum I've been getting email spam from premies for investment scams and now porn sites. Not that I've anything against porn but I don't think that premies should spam the ex-premies with their porn sites.

The trouble is, the premie(s) who are peddling this porn are real amateurs because they've even put their porn sites onto non porn servers (such as Tripod) which are getting removed by the server admins.

So dear premies; if you want to get into the porn business to make money for your master, I applaud your effort but please only use porn servers (I can suggest a few if you email me) and please at least make your spam a bit more interesting and not full of 'enjoy this life' platitudes which you've borrowed from your master.

Try to think of something more original. Something like, 'Even bigger tits than Maharaji'.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 03:43:35 (GMT)
From: Tonette
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: Premies peddle porn for their master
Message:
What a hoot!!!
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jul 02, 2000 at 08:19:00 (GMT)
From: TD
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: What to do about EV's Fuck All Questions?
Message:
Like a lot of you, I've just read EV's FAQ, and I have to say from an objective PR perspective, they have used a good methodology to address all the criticism and stripping away ex-premies have done on this site and forum over the last few years. One thing for sure, it is a blaring indication of the effect of ex-premie.org!

I've also read down below some of your responses to that crap (like Katie's one addressing ex-premie's lack of effort to commit to K), and was just about to add my own, and then thought about something else.

I think it is very important in this case for us to 'fight fire with fire' and do a list of our own 'The truth about EV's FAQ' that addresses each point of theirs one by one, in the exact same order, that cuts down their so-called 'facts' one by one, and give it a place on this site. I know a lot of it has been covered in the history of DLM/EV here, but by this technique, it will have more impact. We might only have to cut and paste from DLM/EV but I think there's probably quite a lot we could add.

What do you think?

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 04:12:53 (GMT)
From: Tonette
Email: None
To: TD
Subject: What to do about EV's Fuck All Questions?
Message:
Someone here needs to expose this fat bastard!Elan Vital and all the brainwashed people who believe this 'Master' crap need an awakening.Why hasn't the IRS done something with him?Or a US senator?If anyone doesn't think this guy is dangerous all they have to do is read about Jim Jones and others like him.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jul 02, 2000 at 15:35:26 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: TD
Subject: Good idea, TD
Message:
'The Truth about EV's FAQ' - or our rebuttal, basically - would make a good web page - and the people here have made a good start at writing it. (Copyright laws do allow reprinting of copyrighted material with associated commentary!)

I guess you could say that the FAQ's are OK from a PR standpoint. I can't see them that clearly - to me they are very flawed and I am actually surprised that whoever wrote them was allowed to put them on line. For one thing, they actually admit that there are negative things about Maharaji on the Internet - thus inspiring people who read them to do a search for this material. Also, some of the answers are just plain NOT TRUE, which makes me quite angry (as you could probably tell from my posts).

I think they would have done a lot better to keep their mouths shut - especailly if this is their (and Maharaji's) supposed answer to the Maharaji Responsibility Campaign letter (www.openlettertomaharaji.org.)

Take care, TD -
Katie

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jul 02, 2000 at 22:33:11 (GMT)
From: TD
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: FAQ's and Maharaji's biography
Message:
Yeah, no what I meant is that using FAQ like this is a good PR technique in itself - with the aim to 'take the sting out of the tail' of the criticism by looking like you're addressing it first before it's leveled. I didn't mean that EV had necessarily done a good job at it!!! As you said, they've done a great job in bullshitting and twisting the facts, and whoever wrote it, must really be battling with their old conscience!

Actually you know what I thought when I read Maharaji's biography on EV. It reminded me of my mum's Christmas form letters that I hate and which she sends out to friends with an update of what the family is doing. And all it talks about is the nice stuff and gives this allusion of what a happy year, not the fact that my sister's marriage broke up or I left a cult, or this or that. And M's biography is exactly like that - a Christmas form letter. Any major speedhumps are just smoothed out, so it gives the appearance that it's all been pretty easy sailing over the years.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 02:06:35 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: TD
Subject: Maharaji's biography is an Xmas letter!
Message:
I really liked the analogy, TD - you're exactly right! I get several of those letters every year, and they are just like you say. (We never send them out in my family - for obvious reasons :)!)

When I read Maharaji's 'biography', it reminded me very much of what I have to do when I am writing up a scientific experiment in which there were a lot of mistakes and errors along the way. I sort of have to smooth everything out, and make it sound OK - like we knew what we were doing when we really did not. Thank god I'm not experimenting with people's lives, though - like Maharaji did.

Take care, TD -
Love,
Katie

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jul 02, 2000 at 08:25:11 (GMT)
From: TD
Email: None
To: TD
Subject: Oh I just read some of Jim's too below ...
Message:
sorry, I just read your Statement of Values post where you'll say you'll cut and paste from DLM/EV Papers.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 00:49:41 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: TD
Subject: Hey, don't think we all can't play at this!
Message:
TD,

Go ahead, please. I love it when you talk that way.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jul 02, 2000 at 15:05:08 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: TD
Subject: Like this, maybe, TD?
Message:

Maharaji becomes 'Satguru'

Original Version:

Shri Hans died on 19 July 1966. He is said to have named the eight-years-old Maharaji (right) as his successor by writing to his wife: 'I send my love to our three elder sons and complete prostrations to our youngest'. Maharaji said that his father's voice came to him three times; the last during the funeral, saying: 'This is the last time I will tell you. You are He. You must take this Knowledge to the world.' Maharaji was recognised as his father's successor following the funeral but DLM President Bob Mishler later told how an attempt was made to have the elder son crowned in his place .


Latest Spin or Whitewash Job from Elan Vital

However the circumstances surrounding how the young Sant-ji became Maharaji are curious. Those close to him at the time said that he had always behaved with a confidence and sense that he was to be the next master, and his father had made it known that it would be his destiny to take this teaching around the world. However his succession was not accepted by some of the leaders of what was now a large and widely recognized organization.

On the day after the funeral, a large crowd waited in the ground of Prem Nagar ashram for an announcement to be made on who should be the next master. Meeting in a small room— a meeting from which Maharaji was excluded on grounds of youth— the key people could not make a decision. Meanwhile, the young Maharaji went out to reassure the people who had gathered to mourn their master’s death. This speech apparently moved the people who heard it to tears. In it Maharaji said there should be no weeping, for what the master taught was always with them, and that he for one was ready to take knowledge forward. And thus the decision was made, not through discussion but through the genuine feeling that Maharaji had evoked in the people present.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jul 02, 2000 at 22:39:20 (GMT)
From: TD
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Like this, maybe, TD?
Message:
Yeah, you know when I read that EV whitewash, it reads like something from the New Testament. Speaking of Shri Hans death. I remember a darshan story told to me by my ex, about these premies watching this mystical Shri Hans spirit change over from Shri to Maharaji at the time Shri Hans carked it. As if.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jul 02, 2000 at 22:47:20 (GMT)
From: gErRy
Email: None
To: TD
Subject: Shri and Mini Shri, that's the spirit !!!
Message:

Two hamsters in the same dirty cage, too much !!!
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jul 02, 2000 at 22:57:06 (GMT)
From: TD
Email: None
To: gErRy
Subject: 'You complete me!' said Mini-Shri! (nt)
Message:
nt
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jul 02, 2000 at 05:47:31 (GMT)
From: Rob
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Should K carry a Surgeon General's Warning?
Message:
cq's post below entitled 'Gentle Art of Brainwashing' referenced an article on hypnosis by Dick Sutphen.

I'd like to include another extract here which describes his views on meditation:

The second thought stopping technique is MEDITATION. If you spend an hour to an hour and a half a day in meditation, after a few weeks, there is a great probability that you will not return to full beta consciousness. You will remain in a fixed state of alpha for as long as you continue to meditate. I'm not saying this is bad-if you do it yourself. It may be very beneficial. But it is a fact that you are causing your mind to go flat. I've worked with meditators on an EEG machine and the results are conclusive: the more you meditate, the flatter your mind becomes until, eventually and especially if used to excess or in combination with decognition, all thought ceases. Some spiritual groups see this as nirvana-which is bullshit. It is simply a predictable physiological result. And if heaven on earth is non-thinking and non-involvement, I really question why we are here.

'By and copyright Dick Sutphen'

Permission is given for reproducing the text for non-profit usage (gee, that would mean it could go on EV's FAQ page!!!)

Well worth a read at http://www.dcd.net/NBP/persuasn.html

Thanks cq - not trying to steal your thunder but I think it could have gotten lost beneath the new excitement!

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 19:46:19 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Rob
Subject: Blimey! someone read a link I recommended
Message:
Blimey! someone read a link I recommended

Thanks Rob,

it's good to know that occasionally the effort gets a result.

In fact, my reply to O (who seems to have disappeared from the forum) about brainwashing and M's claims to be God incarnate (ouch! I still get embarassed at admitting I believed that) is in the pipeline. IMO his post needs another rebuttal, simply 'cos the 'logic' of it was FULL of holes.

Stay tooned!

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Jul 04, 2000 at 00:20:34 (GMT)
From: Rob
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: Yep, keep em coming
Message:
I find my time is more productively spent doing this kind of research than wasted on banal arguments with parrots.

Besides, with enough material who knows, I may even have to write a magazine article or three:)

Know any good libel lawyers who can vet stuff first?

Nudge nudge, say no more!

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jul 02, 2000 at 15:30:25 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Rob
Subject: Great job, Rob and some hopeful thinking.
Message:
I recall reading this sometime ago, and may have even posted it. However, it's rather frightening information and I'd like to see the research validating this. I think it is true, but given the resiliency of the brain, I BELIEVE one recovers quickly upon stopping meditation. Reading, taking a college course, playing a musical intrument, learning a new skill would seem to me to be ways one could combat this 'flat wave' phenomena induced by meditation.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jul 02, 2000 at 06:54:24 (GMT)
From: Lotus Eater
Email: None
To: Rob
Subject: Yes, it damn well should (nt)
Message:
nt
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jul 02, 2000 at 04:42:20 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: K for free? Seminars' cost dollars 3,000/week
Message:
This is the cost of the EV's seminars with Rawat these days (price per participant of course) !

More details coming soon ........

I guess we'll learn more about those on the new ELK website. Watch it!!!!!

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 07:43:20 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Let's see how EV's going to justify
Message:
those seminars and their cost !!!!

Who's going to start ?

Me spilling the beans ? Or them explaining what His Seminars are about, and why they're so expensive ......

I'm anxious to see their new page on ELK!!!!!! Quick quick ....

How are they're going to explain that in order to show your gratitude, and to 'participate' in His Organizations, you have to follow those $ 3,000 per week seminars. Remember, this is all done by 'volunteers' work .....

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 13:01:33 (GMT)
From: Daneane
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Because u can't put a price on 'this gift'
Message:
I'm sure the 3 thousand dollars is strictly to cover EV's costs...the location, the instructional materials, the armed guards, the photo enlargements and duplicates of known trouble makers, the lawyers. Everything lovingly taken care of to help spread this gift.

Man...I should fill an application over there at EV to volunteer my services as a writer. From their example, I've learned to be such the bullshitter.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jul 02, 2000 at 11:41:47 (GMT)
From: Anarchist
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: K for free? Seminars' cost dollars 3,000/week
Message:
Three grand per person per week should keep him stocked up with Marlboro and Cognac for a month!
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jul 02, 2000 at 22:02:00 (GMT)
From: Joey
Email: None
To: Anarchist
Subject: K for free? Seminars' cost dollars 3,000/week
Message:
I'm willing to bet that conservatively, there are at least 3,OOO premies who will be attending these seminars over the next few years.

That's an additional income stream of 9 million dollars. On top of donations, sale of Visions trinkets and videos, satellite feeds, 'gifts' from Amtext and other investments, etc.

Question.

How much cognac can one guy knock down? :::)))

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jul 02, 2000 at 22:32:35 (GMT)
From: Lotus eater
Email: None
To: Joey
Subject: it's no wonder the hamster's wheel is rusty
Message:
when you factor into the costings just how much a bunch of panicky premies can spend when their Lord and Master is coming to town.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 04:09:19 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: Lotus eater
Subject: Not Even That!!
Message:
It's no wonder the hamster's wheel is rusty
Message:

when you factor into the costings just how much a bunch of panicky premies can spend when their Lord and Master is coming to town.

How you noticed how many satellite programs he has NOW monthly??
Money Baby!! That is HIS game: AS ALWAYS!!!

MAHARAJI IS WORSE THAN A SEWER RAT!! HE FEEDS ON THE SPIRITUALLY DEAD PEOPLE WHO FOLLOW HIM!!

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 04:44:40 (GMT)
From: Tonette
Email: not posted
To: SB
Subject: Save the documents
Message:
Time for him, the master that is, to show his paper trail. He is obviously the tax exempt charitable institution. His investments must be slim right now. Who is going to blow the whistle? He's gearing up for something. Where is the US justice department? David Koresh and Jim Jones all over I'm afraid. Who's going to survive this maniac's mid-life crisis?
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 12:50:30 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: Tonette
Subject: Save the documents
Message:
Is all safe...

Since I began to come here I ask myself the same questions... Maybe I have to do it on my own... Of course a Class Action would be so much 'richer'. It would be so reguarding seeing my LORD become humble, once...

Who are you?

Have you posted here before Tonette?

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jul 02, 2000 at 03:44:24 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Don't forget to read the Press Kit
Message:
If you haven't already, you should read this thing. Learn how Maharaji garnered great, wide-spread respect for his work in freeing American youth from drug addiction (so much so, in fact, that several cities and states awarded him various commendations), how the U.S. press saw him as a 'prodigy' if nothing else and how he never saw himself as a leader, that just wasn't his shtick.

Is Maharaji really Andy Kaufman?

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jul 02, 2000 at 16:20:41 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Jim, a question?
Message:
Do you know when they put this stuff on line (the new 'revamped EV website)? I'm asking you because you seem to look at ELK a lot :).

Thanks -
Katie

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jul 02, 2000 at 18:26:13 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: Jim, a question?
Message:
It just appeared yesterday.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 02:23:13 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Thanks (nt)
Message:
July 1, 2000
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jul 02, 2000 at 03:31:03 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: EV gives itself a home examination: is it a cult?
Message:
I don't have time to comment on this but I thought it was worth re-posting:

Elan Vital is not a cult of any kind. However actions speak louder than words, so we have examined commonly held opinions on what constitutes a cult and compared them with the actual activities of Elan Vital in the table below. You can form your own conclusions.

1) Cults maintain a system of shared belief markedly at variance with that of the surrounding culture, and members need to be isolated from consensual information from the general society that would unsettle the belief system.

Elan Vital is a non-profit organization, composed largely of volunteers, whose aim is to help make Maharaji's teaching available to those who want it. Neither his teachings nor the process of communicating them lend themselves to becoming belief systems and he vigorously discourages attempts to make them so. Volunteers come from all backgrounds and live a wide variety of lifestyles.

2) Cults do not allow the right to free and independent thought. Practicing the techniques of Knowledge is an individual experience.

Independent thinking is strongly encouraged by Maharaji and nowhere is it restricted.

3) Cults close their borders and display a defensive behavior towards others in society.

Personal life choices and circumstances are not the concern of Maharaji or Elan Vital and have nothing to do with the practice of Knowledge.

4) Cults discourage contact with family members and non-member friendship circles.

People with knowledge live within society and are active members of society and the community. There are no boundaries between the people that practice Knowledge and the society at large. People come from a wide range of religious, social and cultural backgrounds.

5) Cults are usually led by charismatic leaders who demand exclusive and individual loyalty maintained through reducing the social roles available to members.

Maharaji is seen as charismatic by many, however he does not use this attribute in the exercise of leadership in anyone’s personal life. Furthermore, Elan Vital is not led by Maharaji, nor is he involved with the management of any of the organization’s activities.

6) Cults recruit people through brainwashing or mind-control techniques and it is very difficult to break free once recruited.

Elan Vital does not actively engage in the recruiting of members, and no attempt is made by Elan Vital or Maharaji to influence or manipulate anyone’s thinking. On the contrary, free choice is as essential to every step of the learning process. People come freely, participate freely, and leave freely.
Members support cults by giving over all their wealth and possessions. Elan Vital certainly relies on voluntary donations for a part of its operational costs. However Elan Vital has no membership system and no mandatory donation system.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jul 02, 2000 at 14:06:19 (GMT)
From: VP
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Sorry, but Maharaji runs a cult
Message:
All of these remarks, as you are well aware, are revisionist.

Any one of us could go back, point for point and show how each of these questions apply to Maharaji and his organizations.

Take number 4, for example, where cults discourage contact with family members and non-member friends. Remember when ashram residents where discouraged from leaving the ashrams to go home for Chrismas? I recall someone here saying they were told that the other ashram residents were their family now and if they left, they would not be welcomed back. No cult programming THERE, of course. By listing this characteristic of a cult, EV seems to suggest that Maharaji USED to run a cult, but doesn't any more. Hilarious!

Let's examine number 5. Cult leaders demand exclusive and individual loyalty maintained by reducing the social roles available to members.

This one screams a big 'YES! WE BELONG!' Hell, they WORSHIP the guy for crying out loud. He is their master. He is the center of their experience. They can't have the experience without him. That is exclusive and individual loyalty.

As for limiting the social roles available to members--Sir David's guarding of the cheese, comes to mind. Pretty lowly social role there. But if they want to keep it in the present, hmmmmm--the service roles available now qualify nicely.

Number 3--Cults display a defensive behavior towards society.
Our definition of society has expanded to include the Internet. I would say EV had begun to behave defensively on the Internet lately. In fact, this entire list of reasons why they are not a cult, is in DEFENSE of statements made on ex-premie.org and other sites that oppose Maharaji. Closing down web sites that oppose them is also a defensive tactic of self preservation.

Number 2- Cults do not allow the right to free and independent thought
Closing down the websites that oppose their point of view about Maharaji is PROOF that this cult characteristic applies to Elan Vital. Why won't they answer Dave S. about his website? He wants to know how he violated copy right. They refuse to answer him, because they don't want him to be able to put his site back on the Internet. They don't care about copyrights--they care about protecting and maintaining their cult. If I'm wrong,then they should answer Dave and allow him to make changes to his site.

Also, ex-members who oppose EV's point of view are seen as 'security risks' and are not allowed to attend programs where Maharaji is speaking. Talk about not allowing independent thought (not to mention being paranoid!)

Saving the best for last number one--Cults maintain a system of shared belief markedly at variance with that of the surrounding culture, and members need to be isolated from consensual information from the general society that would unsettle the belief system

BELIEVING that MAHARAJI is your MASTER IS MARKEDLY at variance with that of the surrounding culture. (Unless you are in India, I suppose) HELLO! That is not normal here in America. It's considered weird to the majority of the population--hell, it was considered weird back in the 70's when gurus were more widely accepted than they are now.

Again, closing down the websites squelches any chance for their members (or anyone else) to read opposing views that would unsettle their belief system.

Whoever responded to this 'cult' question didn't really think it through, huh?

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jul 02, 2000 at 15:37:09 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: VP
Subject: Great post, VP! (nt)
Message:
as usual!
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jul 02, 2000 at 19:09:53 (GMT)
From: VP
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: Thank you , Katie
Message:
What is so strange is, even if they have changed some of the way of doing business, how do they explain the cult behavior of the Divine Light Mission, which Maharaji used to head? 'Oh, well, we used to run a cult, but now, under EV we are different.' It's laughable, really.

A lot of things are different, but the main thrust is the same. Like you, I am surprised anyone was able to put this on-line. Have you heard if anything new is going on with David's site? Has Elan vital returned his e-mails regarding his copyright violations?

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 02:27:44 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: VP
Subject: Explaining DLM - 'it's all the premies' fault!'
Message:
Really, it makes me sick, but that's what they say (read Glen Whittaker's comments on the 'History of the Organizations' on elanvital.org). We were all 'hippies' with 'spiritual' concepts, and we just fit Maharaji into those - he didn't have anything to do with it.

Haven't heard from David (Douche) - my guess is that he'll get no satisfaction from Yahoo/Geocities. Yahoo is the biggest web portal on the net and I doubt that they care about one site, or protests regarding said site.

EV answering? In your dreams, VP!

(Hope they are good ones.)

Love and thanks -
Katie

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jul 02, 2000 at 21:43:08 (GMT)
From: Joey
Email: None
To: VP
Subject: And I thank you VP
Message:
A lot of things are different, but the main thrust is the same

Exactly. As someone who was part of this cult during the 70's, the 80's, and right up until 1998, I agree with you totally.

The 'main thrust,' or that which drives m's cult, is exactly the same today as it was right from the beginning...the twin drive for m's financial wealth and m being worshipped by his premies.

The rest is smoke.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jul 02, 2000 at 22:24:14 (GMT)
From: Lotus Eater
Email: None
To: Joey
Subject: So true, and it explains
Message:
the premies' attitude to the 'changes'.

I went through the changes with a friend, you know:
constantly meditate
are you stupid? you cant function if you constantly meditate
one hour MINIMUM
Now a 'recommended one hour'

She just laughed, and I remembered what she would be thinking. How nothing else matters except her devotion to her Master.

NB I have just decided what punishment I would like to see Mr. Rawatt undergo;
For the term of his natural life, or until he says sorry:
4 hrs meditation a day
4 hrs video viewing
4 hrs receiving satsang from his closest premies
2 hrs cleaning bathrooms
and he can take care of himself in the remaining 10.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 02:54:26 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: Lotus Eater
Subject: So true, and it explains
Message:
you forgot one: He has to begin donating money to US!!!

LOL....

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 21:49:19 (GMT)
From: Lotus Eater
Email: None
To: SB
Subject: Agreed, also he could wash my car (nt)
Message:
nt
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Jul 04, 2000 at 10:42:46 (GMT)
From: JtF
Email: None
To: Lotus Eater
Subject: 2 years in a prison cell w/300lb.skinhead
Message:
Let's see if he could satsang that dude!
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jul 02, 2000 at 03:04:53 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: OK, let's look at this shit
Message:
Here's the first part of the EV FAQ intro with my comments:

In this section we have taken this opportunity to set out what Elan Vital stands for, how it operates and how it assists Maharaji in his world-wide teaching activities. We also touch on some of the misconceptions which have arisen around both Maharaji and Knowledge.

'Touch on'? They can call our criticisms 'misconceptions' all they want, that's to be expected, but what's this 'touch on' shit? Is there someplace to go where they provide a deeper, more comprehensive, response? Or are they expecting their readers to want no more than a cursory wash? And then there's this curious sentence:

We want to keep you updated on any developments that might concern you, your friends or your families.

What the fuck is this? What 'developments'? Are they anticipating more open letters like the one at openlettertomaharaji.com and more ads like the one referring to that site which some people placed in the Boston Phoenix saying 'REMEMBER THE 14 YEAR-OLD PERFECT MASTER? WELL, HE'S STILL HERE' and directing them to that open letter? Sure sounds like it. And they expect this superficial discussion to satisfy anyone?

We hope you find this information useful. If you have any further questions or concerns relevant to our activities please email us at info@elanvital.org.

Yes, email them immediately. Await your private, whispered spin-doctoring. Forget about an actual open discussion. They'be got to be dreaming.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jul 02, 2000 at 13:09:24 (GMT)
From: VP
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: OK, let's look at this shit
Message:
Hey, my favorite part of the whole thing was where they said they were in favor of free speech as long as it's fair-HA! I guess that's why they are intent on shutting down websites opposing their group, for supposed 'copyright violations.' All in the name of free speech!! This slays me.

The sick part is, no one from the organization will tell Dave S. which images on his site are violations. NO, because then he would make necessary changes to his site which would allow it to stay on the Internet. As long as they do not respond to him, he is unable to respond to their complaint.

Cults are so transparent--except to the people sucked into them, of course.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jul 02, 2000 at 03:18:44 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: The EV Statement of Values
Message:
Elan Vital upholds the spirit of tolerance and openness throughout the organization and considers respect for the human being to be one of its most fundamental values.

And just HOW does EV 'uphold the spirit of tolerance and openness'? Anyone with high blood pressure shouldn't meditate on this one. Please, it's too appalling. Let's move on.

Elan Vital supports each person’s freedom of choice with regard to their philosophical, political and religious convictions. It rejects all forms of illegal discrimination, including those pertaining to race, nationality, age or gender.

Oh, this race, nationality, blah, blah, blah, is so BORING! Who cares that this is actually quite untrue historically. EV wasn't exactly a hotbed of equality in any respect. But this is just lawyer bullshit. We all know that.

It is also Elan Vital’s position that all persons are free and responsible for their choices of family, professional and social life. The organization does not interfere in these areas.

Again, historically, at least, the exact opposite is true. But how far back should EV cast the gaze of its clear-eyed conscience? If you go back to my time, in the seventies and early eighties, this claim is a bald-faced lie. Let's discuss this, EV, shall we?

Following Maharaji’s teaching is a personal process and in no way requires involvement with any particular group or organization. Each individual may therefore pursue this teaching without associating with or supporting Elan Vital.

God, I wish I'd lived in THAT community! Mine were always all-consuming hornets nests of satsang, service and meditation. But then maybe my memory's just playing tricks on me again.

In addition, each person freely decides the nature of their relationship to the teaching: they may follow it for whatever period of time they desire, abandon it if and when they want, and return again as they wish.

I guess these guys haven't read the Quotes over on the DLM/EV Papers part of the site. Well it's Canada Day and I'm not about to cut and paste all of them. But, really, this IS disgusting, isn't it?

The decision to request the Knowledge proposed by Maharaji remains at all times an individual act, conscious and free. This is why minors, in particular, are asked to wait until they are of legal age in order to make their request.

No coercion, that's the ticket! Why did I feel like I had no choice but to 'go for it' by the time I got initiated? I guess I'm just a little funny that way, huh?

Support for Elan Vital activities, whether personal skills or financial contributions, are voluntary and are made freely. Admission to conferences sponsored by Elan Vital is free, however there are some events where a donation is suggested to cover costs of the meeting.

In the US, Elan Vital is a tax exempt, non-profit organization which promotes Maharaji’s teaching, coordinates events at which he speaks and provides information on activities. In order to provide easy access to the teachings of Maharaji, EV makes a variety of products and distribution methods available, including on-line ordering, in-home satellite broadcast viewing, and mail order video libraries.

More useless blah, blah, blah. Let's have a discussion, I say.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 05:15:33 (GMT)
From: Tonette
Email: not posted
To: Jim
Subject: Who's gonna nail this bastard?
Message:
Elan Vital and Visions are just smoke screens for what's really hapening or has happened. The raping of America's youth. I think Maharaji is reserving and positioning for a comeback. Is it too late to blow the whistle on this fat liar? Where is my US senator? Watch and be sick. Devotion and 'THE MASTER' are trying to make a comeback. Whole new set of youth out there ripe for the picking, financially and for the feeding of his ego. Take Amaroo for example, another Kissimee only without those annoying United States of America laws. Perfect.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 16:46:22 (GMT)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: Tonette
Subject: It won't be announced beforehand
Message:
Trust me Tonette, if someone is going to 'nail this bastard', as you put it, it won't be announced in advance on the forum.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 17:37:29 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: It won't be announced beforehand
Message:
Well, Marianne, I'm not suggesting that my little thorn in his side is gonna nail him once and for all, but for f**k's sake, why aren't more of us giving it a go?

(PS - ref. new thread above 'For the record...'

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 17:52:22 (GMT)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: Hi Chris
Message:
Things happen to confront M and EV that aren't necessarily discussed on the forum. The MRC proved that.

This is only my opinion. Others may differ with me and that is their right. I think that it is sometimes good to give EV advance notice of ex activities. I just don't like to talk legal strategy in public.

Marianne

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 19:54:22 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: Yo, Marianne
Message:
For sure I'm not suggesting that we give away all our goodies by discussing them a-priori on the forum.

However, it DOES occur to me that the suggestion that subversive things might be happening underfoot CAN deter people from making their own representations to whatever 'authorities' they think fit.

And, in a slight more paranoid frame of mind, how easy it would be for a pro-Maharaji to discourage the efforts of the rest of us by claiming that 'everything was being taken care of'? Know what I mean?

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 22:34:17 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: Yo from me, Chris
Message:
Hi Chris -
Here's my feeling about the whole thing. First I absolutely applaud and would like to encourage people to go about opposing Maharaji in their own way - just as you have done in your letters to the UK charity commission. Other examples of this are the MRC letter; Jean-Michel's, David's, and Roger's websites, and the phone calls and visits that Jim has made.

But, what I really do not like - and which I suspect Marianne might not like either - is posts which say 'someone SHOULD do this', or 'why isn't someone doing this?'. My answer to these posts is always 'why don't YOU do it?' Everyone here has a job, children, or other full-time commitments; no one is paid by ex-premie.org or anyone to do anything; and, basically, all the ex-premies here have already devoted plenty of their time into Maharaji and don't need to keep doing it full-time. Also, when it comes to making web pages and the like - everyone has the ability to master this skill - and I hope some people here will learn it!

I know you don't do this, Chris, and I appreciate it. Also, I do not think Marianne is saying 'everything is taken care of' - I think she is saying 'don't assume that nothing is being done because you don't read about it on the forum'!

Take care (and thanks)
Katie

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 20:10:03 (GMT)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: Yo, Chris
Message:
No, I get what you mean, and I am certainly not trying to discourage you in your contacts with the Charity Commission. I say go full speed ahead. And put it on the forum. It's fine with me and I think that your efforts are laudable.

I am just very conservative about discussing this stuff on the forum. Like I said, others have differing views on this subject, which I respect but disagree with.

Over and out, Marianne

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jul 02, 2000 at 07:38:48 (GMT)
From: JtF
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: The EV Statement of Values and COSTS
Message:
Has Elan Vital taken action to protect its reputation?
Yes. Elan Vital, to protect its copyrights, has written letters to the ISPs involved where it believes there have been infringements of its copyrights. As a not-for-profit organization, we were reluctant to use the donations of our contributors for this activity. However we wanted you to know that we felt it appropriate to use our resources on this occasion to protect our rights. Failure to do so could jeopardize our ability to do so in the future.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------I smell a fund raising opportunity here-blame the ex-premies for draining resource$.


Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jul 02, 2000 at 07:22:59 (GMT)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: The EV Statement of Values
Message:
Oh Jim, these misrepresentations will sort themselves out in a way that comes back to haunt DLM/EV and Maharaji. I am glad that they published this disinformation. M and his representatives will eat these words in a court of law one day.

Marianne

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 19:56:43 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: Any bets on how long til the next revisionism?(nt)
Message:
Any bets on how long til the next revisionism?(nt)
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Jul 01, 2000 at 23:58:57 (GMT)
From: A.
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: alexandra palace, enfield ashram
Message:
Calling those who remember Stoke Ashram(Lynne,Gary etc.)and Enfield Ashram, and Ally Pally, 1973, and other gems. Mahatma Dhar's initiation etc. Annie of the Vale... etc. Heady days...
And almost forgot, Maharaji at Wood Vale garden (be-flowered Rolls Royce, premies in back garden, Raja Ji, and the other dancing brother....Happy times....Satsang, Service and Meditation...the Bragon. No cats, no T.V., work and segregation...some formula for propagation and jai sat chit anand!
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jul 02, 2000 at 00:05:21 (GMT)
From: John
Email: None
To: A.
Subject: alexandra palace, enfield ashram
Message:
Didn't Gary perform a piece of liturgical dance in a church somewhere, and the guys were set up to film the man?
Someone else decided to pick potatoes in Cornwall rather that receive Darshan. Afterwards we slept outside on cardboard in the Palace grounds, before being swept off to Enfield to work in the Ashram (roses in the garden); many of us worked in the market gardens there as signing on was forbidden...
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Jul 01, 2000 at 23:49:02 (GMT)
From: Deputy Dog
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Appreciation and the film 'American Beauty'
Message:
Just saw the film American Beauty, and thought I'd share what I consider to be a particularly moving closing scene, where Lester Burnham - who has just been shot dead - gives the following observations about his life in the world:

I guess I should be pretty pissed off about what happened to me, but it's hard to stay mad, when there is so much beauty in the world.

Sometimes I feel like I'm seeing it all at once, and it's too much. My heart fills up like a balloon, that's about to burst.

And then I remember to relax, and to stop trying to hold on to it, and then it flows through me like rain, and I can't feel anything but gratitude for every single moment of my stupid little life.

You have no idea what I'm talking about, I'm sure. But don't worry. You will someday.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jul 02, 2000 at 21:09:12 (GMT)
From: hamzen
Email: None
To: Deputy Dog
Subject: Duh, how could I know what you mean since gm tells
Message:
us all regularly, that someone without gm can't have those experiences.

Gratitude implies 'to something', I'd rather say 'treasured', for those magic moments.

but it's hard to stay mad, when there is so much beauty in the world. Of course it's hard, but then truth is a demasnding mistress, of course why bother, just have a good time etc ect. I haven't got the energy to explain again why that position is so riddled.

Of course it's perfectly feasible to be both angry and appreciative, it's hardly a novel duality model.
It could be argued, a balanced route.

Don't you think it's about time to get out of the conceptual short trousers, but then it's all a game, eh??!!

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jul 02, 2000 at 13:34:01 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: Deputy Dog
Subject: Appreciation and the film 'American Beauty'
Message:
Maharaji 'teaches' to appreciate beauty? Why do I than enjoy flowers and plants since I was a little child? He didn't taught me to appreciate beauty, oh no! He wants to take credit for all the beauty? Well, you premies are the one prolonging the insanity of this guru.

I'm not a premie anymore and few minutes a go when I wattered my garden I appreciated its beauty. How can this be possible, Dog?

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jul 02, 2000 at 02:07:51 (GMT)
From: Felix the....
Email: Cat
To: Deputy Dog
Subject: Appreciation and the film 'American Beauty'
Message:
Deputy you need never post another line here. I saw that beautiful scene whilst sitting in a distant Hotel room , far from home ,doing something I had to do but wasn't enjoying. What the fuck does it matter whether or not the person saying it has the benefit of K. It doesn't change the truth of the statement. For those of us who actually practice and enjoy Knowledge the difference is being conscious for the whole event....or attempting to be! Congratulations Dog ....Wonderful , incisive and true
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jul 02, 2000 at 14:07:19 (GMT)
From: Monmot
Email: None
To: Felix the....
Subject: Stealin' Credits, Felix?
Message:
You said to Dogg, 'Congratulations Dog ....Wonderful,incisive and true.'

Dogg didn't write American Beauty; he just copied the lines from the film, so if any congratulating and fraternal back slapping should take place for those wonderful, incisive and true words, Doggy shouldn't be the recipient.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jul 02, 2000 at 10:39:00 (GMT)
From: Hal
Email: None
To: Felix the....
Subject: Dep you need never post another line here.........
Message:
Yeah ! Hooray! Right on felix. You listening to that good ol' premie advice Dep ?
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jul 02, 2000 at 00:58:16 (GMT)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: Deputy Dog
Subject: wow Dog, how could someone who doesn't have
Message:
knowledge appreciate life?

How could he have possibly come up with that line, without knowledge?

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jul 02, 2000 at 10:34:15 (GMT)
From: Hal
Email: None
To: Susan
Subject: wow Dog, how could someone who doesn't have
Message:
Hi Susan,

My sentiments entirely. Why is it that these premie dudes always think that they're the only ones on the planet who can have experiences of depth and beauty? Spiritually arrogant or what?

They then come up with loads of quotes from the likes of K Gibran, Ram Dass etc. etc. ( even Einstein!) to corroborate their followng Mahaha. I don't get it. Maybe they are just so dense and stupid to be beyond redemption. Cult members and guru worshippers through and through.

Sometimes it's frustrating and sickening just reading these moron's posts.

Hal

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jul 02, 2000 at 13:34:42 (GMT)
From: Felix the.....
Email: The wonderful ,wonderful......
To: Hal
Subject: Wow ,how can I put a Downer on this?
Message:
Oh I dont know Hal. Wasn't such a long time ago you were an apologist for all you now hate. And it's great to see the jargon flowing. You still miss the point. Neither Dog or I mentioned anything except for the scene and the script. Try thinking ,it's envigorating!
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 00:54:35 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Felix the.....
Subject: Let's deal with this right now, asshole!
Message:
You imply that Hal's credibility is lessened by the fact that he used to defend the cult and now attacks it. On its own, that's a completely empty criticism. What matters is how and why Hal thought the way he used to and what, if anything, changed his mind. And the on thing I know about THIS situation is that he's got a lot more guts and integrity than you do. Hey, you know that yourself. I just thought I'd spell it out so there's no misunderstanding.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 01:56:13 (GMT)
From: Felix the......
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Let's deal with this right now, asshole!
Message:
Can't see it Mr Aggro. To me ,he it just happens that he now agrees with your line of maudlin negativity. It was an observation ,not a criticism.Guts and integrity have got nothing to do with how loud you shout. The really interesting thing to me is the fact that more and more the object of your criticism bears little or no resemblance to your understanding or vision of it. You are really starting to look sillier every day Jimbo!
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 05:18:35 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Felix the......
Subject: Prove it!
Message:
You are really starting to look sillier every day Jimbo!

Find one non-premie, like a friend (if you have any outside the cult) or a colleague or someone. Bring them here and we'll see who they think looks sillier every day. You guys are too much.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 12:59:33 (GMT)
From: Screw you
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Felix: (nt)
Message:
(nt)
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 09:08:04 (GMT)
From: Felix the......
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Proved it!
Message:
Jim , I've done better than that. We have parties and when we've all sucked on the bag of nitrous oxide ,had a few drinks and followed the dragon , we flip up the all Ex site and weep with laughter at your plaything. PLEEZE!!!Christ you surely don't think anyone outside of your private Fan club takes you seriously do you??? You remind me of a rat in a cage...all pent up and just NOWHERE to go.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 17:29:06 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Felix the......
Subject: 'FOLLOW the dragon'? Who r u? Peter Sellars?
Message:
Listen, you cowardly anonymous hipster, you're just kidding but I'll tell you quite seriously that I HAVE shown the site to a number of outsiders. When we were partying and when we weren't. Moreover, I've told lots and lots of people the background circumstances and what you spineless creeps say now. In all cases, whether the perosn reads the shit for themselves or hears it from me, they're disgusted by your cult.

So yes, I've tested my sense of what's reasonable with outsiders.

You, on the other hand, are cut off from the world. Maybe not at work, etc., but when it comes to Maharaji your life's a dark, ugly secret. 'You follow WHOM?!' is the question you dread. And with good cause. You know it.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 23:58:28 (GMT)
From: Felix the....
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: No , but are you Hannibal Lector?
Message:
Not true . I am open and above board about my involvement. But then again what is the big deal?And I don't 'follow' anyone. I have a teacher. And I'm learning . Daily What I've learn't from conversing with you? Don't try and handle snakes unless you are holding them tightly around their necks.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 03:59:51 (GMT)
From: Ah fahgetabaudit Felix!
Email: None
To: Felix the....
Subject: These muthafukahs don't listen to no reason (nt)
Message:
NT :-)
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 17:22:23 (GMT)
From: hAL
Email: None
To: Ah fahgetabaudit Felix!
Subject: These muthafukahs don't listen to no reason (nt)
Message:
TYPICAL UNCONDITIONAL LOVE FROM A FULLY REALISED PRACTITIONER OF THE SUPREME KNOWLEDGE AS REVEALED BY THE PERFECT MASTER BALYOGESHWAR SRI SANT JI MAHARAJ. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!

MOTHERFUCKERS ???? CHARMING !!!!!!!

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Jul 04, 2000 at 01:32:02 (GMT)
From: To Felix from SB
Email: None
To: Felix the....
Subject: You sound like one!
Message:
Listen, can you listen to yourself??? I hear the hissssss of 'it' behind your words.

Is my great pleasure to inform you that you have been brainwashed
and the teacher you are learning from is the cult leader you deserve...keep on hissing baby, please, I love it when you guys get like that: For HIS fruits....rotten vegetables WHILE practicing K, not before or after.

Excusse me, I must go now to vomit. This is all I can take.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jul 02, 2000 at 00:06:20 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: fitzroy@liverpool.ac.uk
To: Deputy Dog
Subject: Nice script but..
Message:
..I don't recall Sam Mendes endorsing Maharaji or any other cult nonsense in his interviews.

Would you care to explain the connection or relevance of your post? (if you can).

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Jul 01, 2000 at 23:56:15 (GMT)
From: Lotus Eater
Email: None
To: Deputy Dog
Subject: Appreciation and the film 'American Beauty'
Message:
Do you think the guy who wrote those words was a premie?
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jul 02, 2000 at 03:49:44 (GMT)
From: Monmot
Email: None
To: Lotus Eater
Subject: 'Scuse Me While I Kiss The Sky...
Message:
Dear LE:
The following is not directed at you. Your question just reminded me of the propensity of some premies to think that if a book, film, or piece or art touches them, or has an air of universality to it, then perhaps the artist has 'knowledge.'

If Alan Ball (the writer of AB) could read this, no doubt he'd be twirling like a Sufi on speed, at wit's end resulting from the implication that his touching verbal denouement to a man's life could only be written as a result of his devotion to a false guru. Who else would have the consciousness, the gravitas, the perspicacity, the wit and intelligence to pen such an incisive passage? Nay, not a garden variety human being, veering between pleasure and pain while performing his quotidien duties. Only the Living Lord, who bestows 'consciousness for the whole event' (thanks, Felix), could be the cause for such a gem to be written.

What about Picasso, Van Gogh, Brancusi, O'Keeffe, Redon, Carr, Shakespeare etc.?

Return to Index -:- Top of Index