Forum V: Archive
Compiled: Wed, Jul 12, 2000 at 09:43:32 (GMT)
From: Jul 01, 2000 To: Jul 09, 2000 Page: 3 Of: 5


Deputy Dog -:- R.E. More dog shit from 'Deputy' -:- Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 16:20:21 (GMT)
__ Sir Dave -:- My embedded command to DDog -:- Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 23:51:14 (GMT)
__ Rob -:- FWD: To Elan Vital -:- Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 17:03:11 (GMT)
__ __ gerry -:- I think it's a great idea and here's why -:- Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 18:53:36 (GMT)
__ __ __ VP -:- I should add one thing, Gerry -:- Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 19:46:26 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ gerry -:- geez I'm not saying send letter bombs... -:- Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 20:05:31 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ VP -:- geez I'm not saying send letter bombs... -:- Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 20:18:27 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Katie -:- geez I'm not saying send letter bombs... -:- Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 20:44:34 (GMT)
__ __ __ VP -:- I like you Gerry,,, -:- Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 19:38:30 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Deputy Dog -:- What Dog said to Michael and to Katie was bad? -:- Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 21:26:26 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Katie -:- What Dog said to Michael and to Katie was bad? -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 10:36:23 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Gerry -:- Wrong, wrong, wrong goddamit, Katie -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 15:03:54 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ SB -:- As a new ex I say: -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 21:46:42 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Lotus Eater -:- Wrong, wrong, wrong goddamit, Katie -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 21:09:57 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Lotus eater -:- Keiths post -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 21:17:05 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Katie -:- Sorry, Gerry, I misspoke -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 17:22:56 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ SB -:- Sorry, Gerry, I misspoke -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 22:08:29 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ VP -:- This is a forum for EXES -- Sheesh -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 00:01:33 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Keith -:- Sheesh to you too. -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 00:12:01 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ VP -:- Have you actually READ my posts? -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 00:36:33 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Keith -:- Have you actually READ my posts? -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 00:47:34 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ gErRy -:- Uh oh, Veep, you said 'fuck' again (nt) -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 00:47:17 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ VP -:- gErRy, I said 'ass' down below, too -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 01:01:59 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- Are you nuts Keith? -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 00:24:59 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Katie -:- Agree with Gerry (for once) -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 11:44:10 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ VP -:- Thanks, gerry--nt -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 01:24:24 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Keith -:- Are you nuts Keith? -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 00:29:18 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- Are you nuts Keith? -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 00:39:00 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Keith -:- Ps to Gerry and VP. -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 00:37:14 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ VP -:- It says more about you, Keith -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 00:44:38 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Keith -:- It says more about you, Keith -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 00:51:16 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ VP -:- Forget it -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 01:10:54 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- That's what I like about you Keith -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 00:55:24 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- Ps to Gerry and VP. -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 00:43:34 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Keith -:- Over sensitive mirrors. -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 00:55:15 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ VP -:- One more thing, Keith -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 00:53:40 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Keith -:- One more thing, Keith -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 01:03:15 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ VP -:- One more thing, Keith -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 01:19:49 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Gerry -:- FA'S: I strongly object to Deputy Dogg's presence -:- Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 22:09:46 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Keith -:- FA'S: I strongly object to Deputy Dogg's presence -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 00:23:26 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- Keith you just don't get it, do you? -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 00:32:56 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Keith -:- Stoned clock! -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 00:39:32 (GMT)
__ __ __ Katie -:- IMHO, it's not a war against premies! -:- Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 19:07:29 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ gerry -:- Fuck the premies -:- Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 19:18:56 (GMT)
__ __ Katie -:- I think it's a bad idea, Rob, and here is why. -:- Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 18:19:55 (GMT)
__ __ __ Rob -:- Do we need a Geneva Convention? -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 02:18:08 (GMT)
__ Deputy Dog -:- The above post is for gerry (nt) -:- Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 16:24:01 (GMT)
__ __ Jim -:- Who cares about this shit now, Dog? -:- Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 16:29:36 (GMT)
__ __ __ Jerry -:- Who cares about this shit now, Dog? -:- Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 19:12:23 (GMT)
__ __ __ Katie -:- Yes, this is what they said about the Jagdeo thing -:- Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 18:56:02 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ FAirplay -:- Yes, this is what they said about the Jagdeo thing -:- Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 20:19:18 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Joey -:- Yes, this is what they said about the Jagdeo thing -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 00:33:57 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Fairplay -:- Twisted -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 05:38:04 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Joey -:- Twisted -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 17:50:47 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- You're warped, Bjorn and wrong -:- Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 21:04:36 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Katie -:- Yes, this is what they said about the Jagdeo thing -:- Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 20:40:09 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ VP -:- Yes, this is what they said about the Jagdeo thing -:- Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 19:16:31 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Katie -:- Too true, unfortunately, VP! -:- Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 20:45:45 (GMT)
__ __ __ Katie -:- I'd also appreciate premies' comments on this: -:- Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 18:46:34 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Fairplay -:- My comments as a human being -:- Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 21:53:20 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Katie -:- My comments as a human being -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 11:48:32 (GMT)
__ __ __ gerry -:- Agree with Jim (nt) -:- Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 17:08:46 (GMT)

Jim -:- A touch more 'feedback' -:- Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 16:07:46 (GMT)

Joey -:- Upcoming media events with Steve Hassan -:- Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 15:48:27 (GMT)

Jethro -:- Copy of email I have sent to EV -:- Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 13:28:13 (GMT)
__ Joe -:- Questions -:- Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 22:59:54 (GMT)
__ __ Jethro -:- Questions -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 00:02:31 (GMT)
__ Fairplay -:- Copy of email I have sent to EV -:- Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 22:11:57 (GMT)
__ Tonette -:- EV come clean? -:- Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 14:00:18 (GMT)
__ __ cq -:- EV come clean? -:- Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 19:09:00 (GMT)
__ __ __ gerry -:- kudos and a brickbat for ya , Chris -:- Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 20:11:53 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ cq -:- Why thanks on being the first, Gerry, ol' pal ... -:- Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 20:40:10 (GMT)
__ __ Marianne -:- EV email -:- Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 19:02:48 (GMT)
__ __ __ Jethro -:- EV email -:- Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 20:08:15 (GMT)
__ __ __ cq -:- and here's some moral support from another quarter -:- Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 19:14:59 (GMT)

Jim -:- ELKies respond to historic EV FAQs! -:- Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 11:49:18 (GMT)
__ Tonette -:- what are elkies? (nt) -:- Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 13:17:53 (GMT)
__ __ gerry -:- what are elkies? (nt) -:- Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 22:23:20 (GMT)

Jim -:- A little more 'feedback' I just sent to EV -:- Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 03:13:08 (GMT)
__ Nigel -:- Love the 'little bliss monkey...' -:- Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 03:21:51 (GMT)
__ __ Jim -:- Disingenuous? Hey, what's 'Nigel' mean in Hindi? -:- Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 03:23:45 (GMT)
__ __ __ Nigel -:- Disingenuous? Hey, what's 'Nigel' mean in Hindi? -:- Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 03:32:25 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Jim -:- Disingenuous? Hey, what's 'Nigel' mean in Hindi? -:- Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 11:50:02 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ TD -:- Doesn't it mean 'time is upon us for hair mousse'? -:- Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 04:50:34 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ NIgel -:- Yeah, just like 'TD' means... -:- Fri, Jul 07, 2000 at 13:43:24 (GMT)

Larkin -:- well it passes the time... -:- Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 01:30:43 (GMT)
__ JohnT -:- The Nightmare... -:- Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 06:07:40 (GMT)
__ __ larkin -:- The Nightmare... -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 07:39:14 (GMT)
__ Katie -:- Oh Larkin, dear -:- Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 03:28:46 (GMT)

Tonette -:- Focus of the forum -:- Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 00:13:01 (GMT)
__ Lotus Eater -:- Fight fire with fire -:- Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 00:52:34 (GMT)

cq -:- 'My Lord, my All to me' -:- Tues, Jul 04, 2000 at 19:47:59 (GMT)
__ Jean-Michel -:- Management of EV's activities ? Only HIM!! -:- Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 07:20:27 (GMT)
__ __ cq -:- HE who the Creator,Preserver and Destroyer bow to! -:- Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 17:59:14 (GMT)
__ Know It All -:- maha is not involved with mgmt of EV? -:- Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 01:33:47 (GMT)
__ __ SB -:- maha is not involved with mgmt of EV? -:- Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 02:45:54 (GMT)
__ Nigel -:- IAQ (Infrequently answered questions) -:- Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 01:08:20 (GMT)
__ __ cq -:- Did EV say something? -:- Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 20:02:25 (GMT)
__ __ __ SB -:- CQ: LOL -:- Fri, Jul 07, 2000 at 02:45:13 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ cq -:- ah, but this is part of EV's PRESS KIT !!! -:- Fri, Jul 07, 2000 at 17:15:28 (GMT)
__ __ Jerry -:- IAQ (Infrequently answered questions) -:- Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 03:27:52 (GMT)
__ __ Fairplay -:- IAQ (Infrequently answered questions) -:- Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 02:43:49 (GMT)
__ __ __ Jerry -:- IAQ (Infrequently answered questions) -:- Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 03:32:56 (GMT)
__ __ __ Katie -:- IAQ (Infrequently answered questions) -:- Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 03:20:57 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Fairplay -:- Responding to Elan Vital -:- Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 03:42:43 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Hal -:- Hi Fairplay ot -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 19:28:59 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- Well Hal, the FA's say 'Fairplay' IS INDEED Bjorn -:- Fri, Jul 07, 2000 at 14:44:41 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Katie -:- Responding to Elan Vital -:- Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 10:28:11 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ VP -:- Avoidance points to guilt -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 02:39:06 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ SB -:- Avoidance points to guilt -:- Fri, Jul 07, 2000 at 04:24:46 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ cq -:- 'Avoidance points to guilt' - not always, but ... -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 17:26:33 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ VP -:- 'Avoidance points to guilt' - not always, but ... -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 17:38:28 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ cq -:- read you, VP.Check Elaine's response to U above.nt -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 18:39:40 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ SB -:- What questions? She didn't see them -:- Fri, Jul 07, 2000 at 04:11:36 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Jerry -:- Maybe this will help, moron -:- Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 06:46:59 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Nigel -:- IAQ (Infrequently answered questions) -:- Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 03:28:39 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Katie -:- IAQ (Infrequently answered questions) -:- Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 03:30:43 (GMT)
__ __ __ Nigel -:- What email?? -:- Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 03:12:48 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Nigel -:- Are you Scandinavian? (nt) -:- Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 03:18:47 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ gErRy -:- Duh !!! Of course, it's BJORN !!! -:- Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 04:17:28 (GMT)
__ __ __ Jim -:- A little clarification, Fairplay -:- Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 02:49:51 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Fairplay -:- We all want clarification -:- Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 02:54:29 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Didn't you read my other post to you? -:- Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 03:03:17 (GMT)
__ Tonette -:- If he isn't involved??? -:- Tues, Jul 04, 2000 at 19:57:24 (GMT)
__ __ Fairplay -:- Reverse Robin Hood -:- Tues, Jul 04, 2000 at 20:21:01 (GMT)
__ __ cq -:- Oh *for sure* he isn't involved ... -:- Tues, Jul 04, 2000 at 20:14:14 (GMT)

Bobby -:- kechari mudra -:- Tues, Jul 04, 2000 at 19:45:41 (GMT)
__ Paul of T -:- Blessed are the gleaners... -:- Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 21:29:28 (GMT)
__ Jim -:- Well that settles that, I guess -:- Tues, Jul 04, 2000 at 23:12:12 (GMT)
__ __ shp -:- According to Jim, if you don't debate.... -:- Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 00:13:17 (GMT)
__ __ __ Jim -:- Get the fuck off this page, shp -:- Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 00:48:40 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ shp -:- Discussion? I thought you said it was a debate. -:- Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 18:15:39 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- What do think, Sandy -:- Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 18:30:29 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ shp -:- What do think, Sandy -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 15:05:01 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ SB -:- What do think, Sandy -:- Fri, Jul 07, 2000 at 03:17:40 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ VP -:- What do think, Sandy -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 17:00:44 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- What do you think, Sandy -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 15:19:08 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Nigel -:- 'war' is the wrong word... -:- Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 02:37:31 (GMT)
__ __ Bobby -:- Well that settles that, I guess -:- Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 00:04:49 (GMT)
__ __ __ Jim -:- Since you ask ...... -:- Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 00:56:14 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Bobby -:- Since you ask ...... -:- Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 03:01:03 (GMT)
__ Fairplay -:- This ones for you, Anth. -:- Tues, Jul 04, 2000 at 20:23:53 (GMT)
__ __ Jerry -:- This ones for you, Fairplay -:- Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 02:56:46 (GMT)
__ Tonette -:- Did you dedicate your life? -:- Tues, Jul 04, 2000 at 20:21:39 (GMT)
__ __ X -:- Did you lose it in haste -:- Tues, Jul 04, 2000 at 22:28:55 (GMT)
__ __ __ Nigel -:- What I find surpising.. -:- Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 02:17:11 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ X -:- yes -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 01:23:59 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ cq -:- greatest answers are not to be found by thought??? -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 17:20:41 (GMT)
__ Sir Dave -:- kechari mudra -:- Tues, Jul 04, 2000 at 20:09:06 (GMT)
__ __ Bobby -:- kechari mudra -:- Tues, Jul 04, 2000 at 20:47:46 (GMT)
__ __ __ bill -:- 'buddhist I am'? -:- Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 13:42:15 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Bobby -:- 'buddhist I am'? -:- Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 22:18:57 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ bill -:- 'buddhist I am'? -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 01:31:55 (GMT)
__ gErRy -:- Ketchup and mustard -:- Tues, Jul 04, 2000 at 19:56:02 (GMT)
__ __ Fairplay -:- Quite an emission Sir Dave -:- Tues, Jul 04, 2000 at 20:26:14 (GMT)
__ __ __ Hal -:- Quite an emission Sir Dave -:- Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 17:27:17 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Not Bjorn -:- Quite an emission Sir Dave -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 06:18:11 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Why should anyone talk to this Fairplay guy? -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 12:11:52 (GMT)
__ __ __ Sir Dave -:- Quite an emission Sir Dave -:- Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 00:22:00 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Jean-Michel -:- Sex, nectar AND French kiss with improved 4th T! -:- Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 16:24:08 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Sir Dave -:- Maharaji saves the day again! -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 01:16:17 (GMT)
__ __ cq -:- ... and not forgetting the Heinz 57 -:- Tues, Jul 04, 2000 at 20:20:25 (GMT)
__ __ __ gErRy -:- You forgot sign language, Chris... -:- Tues, Jul 04, 2000 at 21:09:53 (GMT)
__ __ __ FAirplay -:- Only roof of mouth these days -:- Tues, Jul 04, 2000 at 20:30:25 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Nigel -:- A nectar more perfect than heretofore..? -:- Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 03:07:09 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ gerry -:- Dear Fairplay -:- Tues, Jul 04, 2000 at 21:31:07 (GMT)


Date: Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 16:20:21 (GMT)
From: Deputy Dog
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: R.E. More dog shit from 'Deputy'
Message:
In an earlier post, I said, 'Katie can practice the techniques of Knowledge on her 'own.

You said, 'Is this an embedded command, ''Katie can practise the techniques of Knowledge on her own?'' You mentioned NLP. Thanks for ''sharing.''

An imbedded command? 'Katie can practice Knowledge on her own,' means that she can do the techniques on he own if she so desires. They are useful techniques. She doesn't have to join anything. She doesn't have to go dissolving at anyone's lotus feet. I know many people who practice K on their own. Of course I’m one of the duped who think the techniques are valuable.

I said, 'Hey, relax pal. Take your own advice. Buy the world a Coke or something. And that film that you think is so lousy won five Academy Awards.'

You said, 'Who says I'm not relaxed? Of course, I haven't spent the time under my blankie like you have, Dogg, so my ''clarity'' ''appreciation fo life'' and ''graditude'' could never measure up to yours.'

We don't use blankies any more.

You said, 'And where did I say it was a ''lousy movie?'' Don't put words in my mouth, Dog. And yes, that's an example of you insidious dishonesty.'

You said you didn’t like it and I assumed you thought it was lousy. Insidious dishonesty? Fly off the handle why don't you!

You said, 'I don't think all of Hollywood's wonderful award winning movies are appropriate for everyone, but Katie's a big girl and she can decide for herself. I just wanted to provide a dissenting view. Is that ok with you ''Deputy Dog?'' Why anyone would take you seriously, a coward who hides behind an anonymous cartoon character name, is beyond me.'

It's okay with me if you present a dissenting view, but why call me a coward. And I hope people take me seriously because of what I say on this site. You don’t have to take me seriously if you don’t want to. Is that an imbedded command?

I said, 'Life is good enough for me, but I can always make it better. IMO we carry heaven and hell with us. I know what I want to be in contact with.'

You replied, 'Well, Dog, get under your blankie and make it all better then. Yes, we all have so much control over our lives, don't we? Indeed we ''create our own reality,'' right? Get the fuck out of here with your new age poison, you wanker.'

So thanks for sharing gerry, I was really inspired. I didn't know that talking about heaven and hell, and ways to be happier was 'new age poison.' You'll have to excuse me now ger, I'm late for my weekly barroom brawl.

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Date: Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 23:51:14 (GMT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: Deputy Dog
Subject: My embedded command to DDog
Message:

Woof!

Nobody here will listen to your advice, Mr Dog. If they have not been captivated and enthralled by The Master, they are hardly going to listen to a dog.

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Date: Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 17:03:11 (GMT)
From: Rob
Email: None
To: Deputy Dog
Subject: FWD: To Elan Vital
Message:
Hey Doggie,

So what do you think of my idea to forward all premie posts ( well, let's make that hard-core unyielding premies) to Elan Vital Feedback Hotline? I'm sure they have some kind of special gold pin for continued service in the face of opposition. I bet they're proud of your efforts here.

Jim knows your real name, doesn't he?

Hmmmm.

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Date: Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 18:53:36 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Rob
Subject: I think it's a great idea and here's why
Message:
So what do you think of my idea to forward all premie posts ( well, let's make that hard-core unyielding premies) to Elan Vital Feedback Hotline

These unrecalcitrant premies who rarely have the guts to identify themselves come here and are ABUSIVE. EV deserves to have their nose rubbed in it and to see just 'how wonderful knowledge is working' in the lives of these abusive assholes.

I think I made it very clear that I consider this to be EX-PREMIE turf and we have every right to abuse the hard ass premies, EV, and the Speaker himself. They are the perpetrators. We are the victims of a con job. Plain and simple. They have absolutely NO RIGHT to abuse any ex-premie.

I feel perfectly justified in forwarding posts which exemplify the debased morals of these hard ass premies. I don't give a RAT'S ASS for their so -called ''right to speak anonymously'' or ''them worrying about someone outing them'' to this forum, EV or even their work supervisors for that matter.

I'm sick of their abuse, their lies, their obfuscation, and that goddam Elan Vital with all their money and fucking websites. Have you done a search on Lard Ass lately? You get a hundred hits on pro sites before you get even a glimmer of the opposition.

This is the one place where this rotten, rotten fucking cult is being opposed. I think we should do what ever it takes to undermine those bastards. Especially now. This isn't a time for lily livered hand holding of these jerks. This is, as Jim said, WAR.

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Date: Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 19:46:26 (GMT)
From: VP
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: I should add one thing, Gerry
Message:
I DID like what you said about the fact that premies should not be allowed to come here and abuse ex-premies. I agree with that wholeheartedly.

I'm just not sure what should be done about it. What about a block or ban on the posters if they continue the abuse? I'm not sure outing them to the forum or to EV is the best answer, that's all.

VP

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Date: Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 20:05:31 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: VP
Subject: geez I'm not saying send letter bombs...
Message:
I'm just talking about sending some of the abusive stuff back to its source--EV. That's all. This 'outing' stuff is peripheral noise as for as I'm concerned. It's immaterial to me whether these hardcore are named or not.

Re blocking: I'm talking about people who have really worn out their welcome out here: Mili, Deputy Dawg, that ilk. What meaningful contribution has their drivel, well contibuted, to the conversation?

Yeah, I guess I am saying block these two in particular. There are a few others who will show themselves soon enough. Oh and yeah, of course, Bjorn and all his incarnations.

But people like Sandy, Keith, and even Elaine seem to be salvageable, although I'm sure others will disagree. But it's time for Mili and Dogg to be mosying on down the road, IMO.

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Date: Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 20:18:27 (GMT)
From: VP
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: geez I'm not saying send letter bombs...
Message:
I don't see anything wrong with sending abusive posts back to EV--I just didn't like what Rob was saying about outing a particular person to EV. That just seemed cruel and unusual. You never know what that might do to someone who was afraid of EV. If you sent their posts there anonymously, that wouldn't matter. It might make them think twice about being abusive.

Did Mili ever answer those questions, btw? He never answers mine.

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Date: Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 20:44:34 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: VP and Gerry
Subject: geez I'm not saying send letter bombs...
Message:
I don't have a problem with sending abusive posts back to EV either. I am so cynical about EV at this point that I think they will say the posts were made by ex-premies to make premies look bad, or whatever. As VP said, I do have a problem with outing ANYONE who posts on this forum, premie or not.

BTW, a recent ex told me that he knows some premies who are even afraid to READ the forum because it's the devil's talk, etc. Maharaji says it will just make them 'confused', and I guess they fear this. I feel bad about these people, honestly, and I guess I don't want do any more discourage them from either reading or writing on the forum or on any of the ex-premie sites.

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Date: Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 19:38:30 (GMT)
From: VP
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: I like you Gerry,,,
Message:
but I disagree about this war on premies thing. For myself, anyway. You and Jim and others may feel differently, and that's fine.

For me, I think this place's best value is found in helping people who have been damaged by this cult. That is what I have gotten out of it, anyway. That and meeting a circle of people who once had the same screwed up set of religious idiology that I had.

Just because someone is an idiot, doesn't mean they deserve to be outed here. Even premies who come on here to specifically make trouble. Some of them are desperate to do anything to help their Lord and Master. Frankly it's stupid for them to come and they would be happier staying away, but that's their decision.

Ger, sometimes it helps me to remember that this person is also damaged by Maharaji, and doesn't have the benefit of being able to figure out what is really going on, the way you and I have. He is at a place we used to be, even if it's hard to remember that now. Most of the time, rather than get angry, I feel sorry for the poor blokes. I wouldn't want to hurt any of them, even if they make me angry, because they are all people, irregardless of our differences of opinions.

I'm not saying your point of view is wrong, or that your anger is wrong and certainly there is a place for anger here. What Dog said to Michael and to Katie was bad, but we all know differently, that Michael and Katie are wonderful, funny, kind, smart, etc. The premie posts I object the strongest to are the ones that question victims of sexual abuse, which I find to be vile. They make me very angry, so I do understand why you could get furious with premie posters.

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Date: Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 21:26:26 (GMT)
From: Deputy Dog
Email: None
To: VP
Subject: What Dog said to Michael and to Katie was bad?
Message:
I'm not saying your point of view is wrong, or that your anger is wrong and certainly there is a place for anger here. What Dog said to Michael and to Katie was bad, but we all know differently, that Michael and Katie are wonderful, funny, kind, smart, etc. The premie posts I object the strongest to are the ones that question victims of sexual abuse, which I find to be vile. They make me very angry, so I do understand why you could get furious with premie posters.

Did I miss something here? Has someone been posting anonymously under my moniker or something? I have always been polite to Katie.

And read the post from gerry entitled 'More dog shit from the Deputy,' it's in the inactive files, and you will see that he calls me a coward, an insidious liar, and a new age wanker. The delightful man also told me to fuck off. My above post to him is quite respectful in comparison.

So who's abusing who? And where do you exes get off saying that it's okay for you to be abusive but not for premies. I can be as abusive as I fucking want. If you don't like it go ahead and block me!

I honestly tried to communicate here.

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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 10:36:23 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Deputy Dog
Subject: What Dog said to Michael and to Katie was bad?
Message:
Hi Dep -
I don't have a problem with what you said to me - I knew you meant well, and as you said were honestly trying to communicate. I have had a lot of premies tell me that, and even send me videos and music tapes, etc. since I've been posting on the forum. I am frankly not interested in practicing the knowledge meditation techniqes again, with or without Maharaji. As I've said many times, I think they are of benefit to many people (some ex-premies included), but not to me. Everyone is different, right - and the older I get the more I realize that one kind of diet, health regime, relaxation technique, OR spiritual practice doesn't work for everyone.

As far as you calling Michael a prick - yes, I guess you have the right to abuse people here - god knows, everyone else does. But I did and do object to that. I know you and Michael do not get along, but he is not a prick, and in the post you reacted to, he was just teasing you (you know - literal interpretation of the Bible = born-again Christian = follower of televangelist/faith healers). Obviously, both he and I KNOW that you are not a born-again Christian!

And I do understand why Michael gets frustrated when people start questioning his Christian beliefs and knowledge and interpretation of Christianity after he's spent years studying it. As he said in one post, he doesn't dissect other people's Buddhist beliefs, because he is not a Buddhist. He WAS a premie though, and I think it's fair for him to make comments about that.

Michael is a very good person, believe it or not, and I have ALWAYS been able to call on him for help - both for myself, and for other people here who need it. So naturally, people here are going to get upset when you abuse him.

Take care -
Katie

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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 15:03:54 (GMT)
From: Gerry
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: Wrong, wrong, wrong goddamit, Katie
Message:
I guess you have the right to abuse people here

Holy fuck, girl how can you be so dense !!!

This is absolutely wrong. Ask around in any other support group. They NEVER allow members of the offending group abuse recovering members. WHAT PART OF THIS DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND.

Jesus Flying Christ. Get this straight. Ask around. This is shitty, shitty advise and flies right in the face of all recovery group philosophy and COMMON SENSE for fucking christsake.

Sorry for the intensity, but I feel VERY STRONGLY about this and you've just given 'Deputy Dawg' license to continue his abuse.

Stupid, stupid, stupid thing to do.

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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 21:46:42 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: Gerry
Subject: As a new ex I say:
Message:
It's very hard to read the crap that some premies post here, they are very annoying, very!! And yes, Katie and I have different personalities. She is a sweet, sweet person...and she also was not involved in the cult for as long as some of us, so I don't believe she comprehends exactly how we oldies feel reading abusive posts from some premies. Katie, I'm not saying you were not hurt by the cult, I'm saying that the longer the involvement, the bigger the pain is. To me is all about the time I lost!! Abusive premies are second class around here, to me... I have compassion for their ignorance but they shouldn't be allowed to verbally abuse exes or come here to defend Maharajiriachi.BUT:

In the same time a part of me reads their crap and rejoices that I'm off the cultish thinking and also, that EVERYTIME, even some mean good sometimes, they make a fool of themselves. It's good for the records of this site!!

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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 21:09:57 (GMT)
From: Lotus Eater
Email: None
To: Gerry
Subject: Wrong, wrong, wrong goddamit, Katie
Message:
Dear Gerry,
You say that support groups don't let offenders abuse (paraphrasing) and then say What Part of that don't you understand.
Can you explain the dynamics of this?
I am finding that I actually make an effort to keep focus on that which has abused me, ie Maharaji, I even keep a picture of him on the wall still (underneath mine!), the impetus behind this is I am determined not to leave any skerrick of myself behind, still in his clutches, or act out any unresolved feelings of fear, anger and humiliation on somebody else. Lesley
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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 21:17:05 (GMT)
From: Lotus eater
Email: None
To: Gerry
Subject: Keiths post
Message:
PS Having just read keiths post entitled Sheesh to you and felt a bit sick I think I am getting an understanding of what you are on about, My personal opinion of Keith is that he is OT, some guy who has wandered on here looking for a fight, any fight will do.
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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 17:22:56 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Gerry
Subject: Sorry, Gerry, I misspoke
Message:
I meant that he can write all the abusive posts he wants, which is true. I shouldn't have used the word 'right' - 'ability' would be more like it. I didn't say that his posts wouldn't be deleted or that he wouldn't be blocked, which is what would happen sooner or later if he kept posting abuse.

Anyway, Dep does not strike me as the abusive type.

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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 22:08:29 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: Sorry, Gerry, I misspoke
Message:
Since Dog haven't yet made an effort to UNDERSTAND where exes are coming from I find many of his posts abusive. I have read many.
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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 00:01:33 (GMT)
From: VP
Email: None
To: Deputy Dog
Subject: This is a forum for EXES -- Sheesh
Message:
Michael is a great guy--very funny. His posts are some of my favorite. I even got a letter from him shortly after I found the forum and he sent me some tapes of music, etc. Anyway, my point is that Michael is far from being a prick. I consider calling someone a prick less than friendly.

I didn't like what you said to Katie about 'trying Knowledge later' No one here (no one who has left Maharaji) wants to hear that and in our opinion, that is bad advice. You are right, you didn't say SHE was bad, but what you said was not the nicest thing. It all in point of view, I guess.

I don't like abuse of any kind--ex to ex, ex to premie, premie to ex, person to person. But this is an EX forum and if you choose to come to this party, you will get what you get. I am not Gerry's keeper. I am not here to defend you, but if you read my post, you might see that I did in a small way.

Sheesh.

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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 00:12:01 (GMT)
From: Keith
Email: None
To: VP
Subject: Sheesh to you too.
Message:
Let me say that you VP and a few others who post on this forum I find sickingly blinkered,biased and petty. Is this forum really for exes? Then ban all others. Why even tolerate opposing views?
Your 'sheesh' makes me puke! Your double standards are so transparent that you appear foolish to all except those who have a vested interest in your inane rantings.
Phew! I feel a bit better now.
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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 00:36:33 (GMT)
From: VP
Email: None
To: Keith
Subject: Have you actually READ my posts?
Message:
Thanks for saying I'm petty--have you ever actually read any of my posts, Keith? If so, you must have misinterpreted my tone completely. Biased, yes, but all people are biased one way or another, even if they think they aren't. Especially when it comes to subjects like this. I think this is a cult. It's my opinion and you don't have to share it with me. You also don't have to call me names.

Your last post has really inspired me to get into a sincere conversation with you. (heavy sarcasm) But I have to say that I'm glad YOU feel better for calling me names (not really. I'm just making a point with you.) But Keith, I'm going to give it a go anyway. If you already have this opinion of hate towards, me fine, but I'm going to try anyway.

This is supposed to be a forum for anything about Maharaji, which is why I have not EVER before been in favor of banning premies from here. Lately, I read some posts by a Just Curious to Susan that, quite frankly made me fucking sick. (did you read them?) Even after that, I still don't think it's a good idea to ban anyone unless they are threatening, spamming, or something like that.

This is an website opposing Maharaji and EV--this forum is not hooked onto ELK, right? That was my point about this being an ex forum. I did not mean that I didn't want premies or people such as yourself who think outside the box posting here. It just meant that this site is not pro-Maharaji. People who are pro Maharaji and come here and make stupid comments like 'you can always try knowledge again' might get some anger directed at them.

No, I do not like it when exes abuse people. No matter what you think.

Did you ever read the big discussions that I had with Runamok over the banning issue? He wanted to block premie posters and I did not.

I don't go hanging around ELK (never been there, actually) and that is the only point I was trying to make. I don't care if premies post here, but I think it's sort of ridiculous that they come here, read, and then get mad when people don't like what they have to say and then start calling people like Michael a 'prick'.


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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 00:47:34 (GMT)
From: Keith
Email: None
To: VP
Subject: Have you actually READ my posts?
Message:
Ok.Vp. No. I haven't read many of your posts. To be honest I've not had the time to read many posts at all lately. But I've felt angered by your posts to me (occassionaly). I feel we both have expressed 'abusingly' to each other. (over time). There is soft abuse and hard abuse. Anyway i am willing to try and curb my tendencies. Perhaps take my frustrations out on Gerry. He seems to like a good scrap.
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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 00:47:17 (GMT)
From: gErRy
Email: None
To: VP
Subject: Uh oh, Veep, you said 'fuck' again (nt)
Message:
nt :-)
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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 01:01:59 (GMT)
From: VP
Email: None
To: gErRy
Subject: gErRy, I said 'ass' down below, too
Message:
What is happening to me!? It must be this place, this devil's hot bed of bad influence, this inferno of hell--ha ha

You know, I should just start being mean as a snake and be a REAL bully. Maybe someone here could give me some lessons on how to be violently, outwardly abusive and then I won't have to poke people in the orafices while delivering my nice platitudes...just funning if you read this, Keith.

VP
sincere prankster

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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 00:24:59 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Keith
Subject: Are you nuts Keith?
Message:
VP is one of the nicest, mellowest, most balanced and least prejudiced person here, for godsake. I don't know of one person besides you who dislikes him.

Take it out on me. I'm the radical here.

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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 11:44:10 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Agree with Gerry (for once)
Message:
VP is a really good guy, and I'm honestly surprised at your reaction to his posts, Keith.
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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 01:24:24 (GMT)
From: VP
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Thanks, gerry--nt
Message:
That was nice
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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 00:29:18 (GMT)
From: Keith
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Are you nuts Keith?
Message:
VP says with more delicasy what you shout from the roof tops Gerry. And I have no problem with taking it out on you. As I have done in my last post. Are you reading it now? One thing I'll say about you Gerry. I could call you a fuckwit and you hit back with interest ,but at the end of the day we can still communicate,it seems. But really. Your views about banning are screwball, imho.
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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 00:39:00 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Keith
Subject: Are you nuts Keith?
Message:
I doubt VP even agrees with my request to ban the Dogg. And I know he doesn't agree with my theory that we as exes have every right to dish out abuse to EV, Maharaji, and cult apologists. He stated as much. I think you owe him an apology.

What exactly do you object to in my request to have Dogg banned? I think I stated my reasons quite clearly. Maybe you could review my post about it and get back to me.

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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 00:37:14 (GMT)
From: Keith
Email: None
To: Gerry and VP
Subject: Ps to Gerry and VP.
Message:
It is vp's apparent 'niceness' that sometimes riles me. It reminds me of someone poking sticks into my orifaces whilst smiling and saying nice platitudes. Polite bullies are bullies none the less. This is my perception. Rightly or wrongly.
Vp's 'sheeesh' really rubbed me up the wrong way. Like,'how dare you abuse me ,you pile of shit'. If you get my gist.
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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 00:44:38 (GMT)
From: VP
Email: None
To: Keith
Subject: It says more about you, Keith
Message:
Keith,
The fact that my being nice to people bothers you says a hell of a lot more about YOU than it does about me. :)

When I decided to start posting here, I wanted to try to be fair and accurate and to see both sides of what people were saying. I believe I have always given your posts that same consideration, even when others were making fun of you. You would prefer people to make fun and tell you to fuck off? To each his own, I guess.

If you don't like what I have to say or how I say it, you don't have to read my posts anymore. It would suit me just fine at this point.

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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 00:51:16 (GMT)
From: Keith
Email: None
To: VP
Subject: It says more about you, Keith
Message:
I'm sorry. It's obvious after reading these few posts from you that I over reacted to your original post. Really. I appologise!
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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 01:10:54 (GMT)
From: VP
Email: None
To: Keith
Subject: Forget it
Message:
You don't owe me an apology, Keith. You have a right to your opinion. I just take issue with you calling me petty and a bully. I AM biased but only after what I consider a LOT of thought on this subject--about 27 years of it.

This will probably irritate you, but it's okay if you don't like me.

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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 00:55:24 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Keith
Subject: That's what I like about you Keith
Message:
Nice apology, good show.
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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 00:43:34 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Keith
Subject: Ps to Gerry and VP.
Message:
Keith, I think you're being a little over-sensitive, something I understand, believe me. Is there something else bugging you? Go ahead, outgas. It's not easy leaving a cult and I believe you are making a sincere attempt to do so. Kicking and screaming maybe, but sincere nontheless.
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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 00:55:15 (GMT)
From: Keith
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Over sensitive mirrors.
Message:
You are right about one thing Gerry. Like you, I am over sensitive at times. We both fly off the handle at times ,don't we? We are both new age sensitive guys, aren't we? VP too.
Come on. Disagree with me..come on!
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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 00:53:40 (GMT)
From: VP
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: One more thing, Keith
Message:
I am not a bully. I know what a bully is because in elementary school this bully used to come kick my ass in my own front yard. It was quite humiliating and I had to finally stand up to him. That is one reason I don't ever want to be a bully.

I have a very strong personality, but that is quite different from being a bully. I do NOT like Maharaji or EV. I believe Maharaji runs a cult. I am very honest about this opinion and I can understand how you or others might not like what I have to say on the subject. I can understand that if you love Maharaji or knowledge you may hate what I am saying about this.

But I don't hate premies and I don't even hate Maharaji, though I hate the dishonesty associated with the whole thing. I DO like this place because I think it helped me and I am friends in real life with several of the exes.

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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 01:03:15 (GMT)
From: Keith
Email: None
To: VP
Subject: One more thing, Keith
Message:
You obviously haven't read many of my posts either, VP. Because if you had you would realise that I am not a lover of Elan Vital or Maharaji. I am not a premie. Like you, I don't hate premies. Neither do I hate Maharaji. Yes. I do object to the way you say some things. As you do with me. But I don't hate your ideas. It's easy to react over sensitively over this 'medium' ,I feel. My feeling is that if you,Gerry and I would actually meet we would probably get on quite well.
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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 01:19:49 (GMT)
From: VP
Email: None
To: Keith
Subject: One more thing, Keith
Message:
I have read a lot of your posts. I read almost all of them when you first got here.

I have been in and out for a while now, but I did remember that you weren't calling yourself a premie anymore.

I agree, we would probably all get along fine if we were to meet in person. That is one reason I try not to over react towards people here. It may come off as 'nicey nice' but when I'm typin, I think 'What would I say to that person face to face?' It's a lot easier to be mean or angry or out of control in print when you don't actually know the person or have to face them. I try to be cognicent (sp?) of the fact that there is a real person on the other end of the boxes here. I don't always succeed in doing what I intend, however.

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Date: Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 22:09:46 (GMT)
From: Gerry
Email: None
To: Deputy Dog
Subject: FA'S: I strongly object to Deputy Dogg's presence
Message:
I can be as abusive as I fucking want. If you don't like it go ahead and block me!

I honestly tried to communicate here.

Well there you have it. Dogg feels he has free reign to abuse PEOPLE WHO ARE TRYING TO RECOVER FRON THE DEVASTATING EFFECTS OF A DESTRUCTIVE CULT !!!

Do we really need this kind of 'honest communication?'

He's had his say for months now, maybe even years. What's the point of allowing him to go on? No other support groups I know of allows members of the offending group to abusive, cajole or attempt to persuade the victims of the wrongness of their stance. This is nuts. Why is the creep allowed to do this? I really don't understand this. PLEASE BLOCK HIM !!!

Thanks.

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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 00:23:26 (GMT)
From: Keith
Email: None
To: Gerry
Subject: FA'S: I strongly object to Deputy Dogg's presence
Message:
Gerry,you have this disgusting tendency to go off on extreme tangents. Such a shame. For at other times you show signs of reasonableness. Must be of the same type of cloned 'stock' that I come from. But there are extremes and there are extremes. your 'brand' is so projective. You and V.P and a number of others who post here seem to be especially cloned from the same gene-pool. You shout 'murder' whilst killing. You claim or infer special rights as an ex-premie. Hey! I'm an ex-premie too. But I most strongly disagree with your ideas. You are an example of a type of school yard bully who vents off anger and hostility, all the time hiding behind the bigger bullies. All the exss like you are like that. The 'bigger bullies' is a metaphor for the forum itself. Any serious disagreement to your type of views you would have thrown out. Thank God I am not a prisoner in a camp you are commodeering. Why have you so much hate? Why?
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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 00:32:56 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Keith
Subject: Keith you just don't get it, do you?
Message:
Keith, what 'ideas' of mine are you objecting to?

It would help if you could be more specific.

Must be of the same type of cloned 'stock' that I come from.

Don't you mean 'stoned clock?'

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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 00:39:32 (GMT)
From: Keith
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Stoned clock!
Message:
This is one of your saving graces Gerry. Your absurd sense of humour. This I like.
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Date: Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 19:07:29 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: IMHO, it's not a war against premies!
Message:
Gerry, I am not talking about hand-holding. Yes, I have a big problem with Maharaji, and with the organization of Elan Vital, and I oppose both of them, particularly their obfuscation and spin, and untruthful statements. But I don't see the forum as a place all-out war against premies in general. In my opinion, it just dilutes the main issue.

Besides, how do you identify a hard-core unyielding premie? Would you have called Hal one? Would you have called Denise one? How about Bill Burke?

If premies are going to be threatened with exposure if they post here, then why not just lobby to ban their posts? I am guessing that the REAL hard-core ones will use anonymizers anyway.

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Date: Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 19:18:56 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: Fuck the premies
Message:
There's enough evidence out there to convince even the most brain dead premie in the world, IMNSHO. They're all recalcitrant.

Besides, how do you identify a hard-core unyielding premie? Would you have called Hal one? Would you have called Denise one? How about Bill Burke?

What's your point? I think the hard-core are easily identifiable and I volunteer for the job. Obviously the people you mention were not.

Look Katie, I didn't write that post as a personal criticism of you, but only to oppose your view point.

I have no problem with your style and I wouldn't ask you to change or take up mine. I think your style provides a good balance. Everyone can make up their own minds and act according to their own consciences. A luxury which wasn't permitted in the cult, if you recall.

I don't care if they call themselve Donald Duck or use anonymizer or whatever. I'm still gonna cull some of the choicer comments and forward them to EV and there isn't a goddam thing you can do about it so you might as well get used to it.

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Date: Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 18:19:55 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Rob
Subject: I think it's a bad idea, Rob, and here is why.
Message:
Actually, Rob, I think everyone should have the right to speak here anonymously if that is what they want (providing they use a consistent pseudonym, don't spam, etc.) No one should have to worry about someone outing them either on the forum or to Elan Vital or to their job supervisor, as someone suggested below (I was embarassed that this even was posted on the forum!) Lots of people here read the forum and other sites at work, because that is where they have internet access.

If you really can't deal with premies being on the forum, than that can be discussed. But it is really important to me, and I think to the FA's too, and maybe to you too, that everyone feel as if they won't get outed if they post here.

Just my two cents -
Katie

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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 02:18:08 (GMT)
From: Rob
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: Do we need a Geneva Convention?
Message:
Hi Katie,

Well it certainly got people thinking!

I was more interested in hearing DD's thoughts on this than actually using it as a stick to beat him with. I know that when I first arrived as an Apologist of the First Order, I would have been acutely embarrassed to get a phone call from someone at EV telling me to cool it! The reason being that the shield of anonymity encourages a level of bravado which would otherwise not appear. To have been reminded at that point that I was actually helping to paint a derogatory picture of Maharaji would have stopped me in my tracks.

So on that note, maybe we should let them carry on!

It would make for an interesting discussion if some of our regular premie posters would voice their opinions on this, so how about I pose it as a question:

Dear Premies,

Are you proud of the way you are representing your Master and His Knowledge here, and do you feel He would be happy if He knew exactly who you were?


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Date: Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 16:24:01 (GMT)
From: Deputy Dog
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: The above post is for gerry (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 16:29:36 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Deputy Dog
Subject: Who cares about this shit now, Dog?
Message:
Come now, Dog. You know as well as anyone here that the real story right now is all about EV finally addressing its critics. Why are you avoiding it? Tell me, for example, what you think about their spin on the Jagdeo matter? You've read all the Whittaker -- AJW correspondence, I take it? Your opinion please?
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Date: Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 19:12:23 (GMT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Who cares about this shit now, Dog?
Message:
Good point, Jim. Not only that, but I wonder what Dog's opinion is of Maharaji changing his mind about how to deal with critics. It wasn't that long ago that M was bragging about how the way he deals with critics is to ignore them. What changed his mind, and what do premies think of him changing it?
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Date: Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 18:56:02 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Yes, this is what they said about the Jagdeo thing
Message:
(from elanvital.org FAQ, copyright, 2000, EV)

We are aware that some opposing sites make allegations in particular against one individual concerning events alleged to have happened 25 years ago. This kind of behavior, if true, is completely unacceptable to Elan Vital and we would be as appalled as anyone if this was found to be true. The only information we have comes from postings on these sites. We were able to contact two individuals who made these allegations and asked that they help shed light on what happened but as yet have received no cooperation from them. As it stands Elan Vital has still received no direct information from any of the alleged victims and to date no complaint has been filed with Elan Vital or with any authorities.

This contains at least three erroneous statements:
1. The only information we have comes from postings on these sites.
Not true at all - just read Anthony's letters to Glen Whittaker, plus Susan's testimony. (Of course, EV is good at 'losing' letters, and 'forgetting' what people have said in the past.)

2. We were able to contact two individuals who made these allegations and asked that they help shed light on what happened but as yet have received no cooperation from them.

As far as I know, Susan and Abi have NOT been directly contacted by EV at all! Of course they could be talking about two other victims...

3. to date no complaint has been filed with Elan Vital
Again, read Anthony's correspondence with Glen Whittaker. I am not sure why this does not constitute a complaint in their eyes, nor am I sure why Susan's previous reporting of the incident, or Abi's father's talking about it, didn't constitute a complaint.

Comments on this please. My feeling is that EV should have completely avoided this subject unless they were prepared to tell the truth. And I'd like to know what the premies who post here think about these statements by EV.

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Date: Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 20:19:18 (GMT)
From: FAirplay
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: Yes, this is what they said about the Jagdeo thing
Message:
Dear Katie,

As I mentioned before I think the victims should take Elan Vital's offer to come forward. I know it is not a pleasant thing to deal with but justice should be done if possible.

Jagdeo should be made accountable as there are people from Elan Vital who have seen him at programmes in recent years.

I am not a premie or an ex premie although I do practice k I don't believe that m should have a money making monopoly on it.

Fairplay (The human being.)

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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 00:33:57 (GMT)
From: Joey
Email: None
To: FAirplay
Subject: Yes, this is what they said about the Jagdeo thing
Message:
Jagdeo should be made accountable as there are people from Elan Vital who have seen him at programmes in recent years.

I've seen Jagdeo at programs in recent years. (eg. Toronto 1997).

As far as EV goes, they've not only seen him at events-they've facilitated his presence there.

Man, are you twisted.

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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 05:38:04 (GMT)
From: Fairplay
Email: None
To: Joey
Subject: Twisted
Message:
Dear Joey,

Not sure why you think I'm twisted because I said E.V. members and others have seen Jagdeo?

Please explain.

I enjoy you posts if you are J.W.

Fairplay

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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 17:50:47 (GMT)
From: Joey
Email: None
To: Fairplay
Subject: Twisted
Message:
If you WEREN'T twisted, I believe you'd understand my previous post to you.

It's really self-explanatory.

And no, I'm not JW.

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Date: Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 21:04:36 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: FAirplay
Subject: You're warped, Bjorn and wrong
Message:
As I mentioned before I think the victims should take Elan Vital's offer to come forward. I know it is not a pleasant thing to deal with but justice should be done if possible.

This is utterly naive and completely the wrong track to take. It's very similiar to what's happening in the catholic church right now. The church will move the alleged offender, deny, lie, hide, obfuscate, spin, swirl, squirm and do ANYTHING other than face the facts. JUST LIKE ELAN VITAL.

The time for mediation in this matter is long gone. Criminal charges against the perp(s) and those protecting the perps is what's needed now.

PS About the catholic situation: Not all cases are handled as I described. Just MOST cases. I know a LOT about this. Much more than I care to, actually.

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Date: Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 20:40:09 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: FAirplay
Subject: Yes, this is what they said about the Jagdeo thing
Message:
The point I am making is that the victims DID come forward, and Elan Vital is saying that they did not. What makes you think that they will be listened to this time? Elan Vital does not specifically ASK for them to come forward, it says that they wouldn't cooperate, which is untrue. Judging from the untruths in the FAQ statement - I believe that there is a possibility that even if they did come forward yet again, Elan Vital might not take notice of it.

At this point I'm convinced that Elan Vital is more concerned with protecting (whitewashing) its reputation than making Jagdeo accountable. I'm sorry, but this appears to be the truth. If you still go to programs, and know premies with children, you might warn them about this.

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Date: Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 19:16:31 (GMT)
From: VP
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: Yes, this is what they said about the Jagdeo thing
Message:
Katie,

You said EV shouldn't have commented on it unless they were prepared to tell the truth. I agree with you 100%, but look over that list of FAQs. How many of them were answered truthfully? You read below where I reviewed EV's statements on why they did not consider themselves to be a cult. Their defenses were laughable, really.

I feel that EV got to the point where they felt that they HAD to comment on the question of sexual abuse. They had to make themselves look completely innocent and blameless. The premies I know are good people and I know that they would not want innocent children to get hurt. If they thought someone in EV was doing this, they would want to see them punished.

AT the same time, they are most likely unwilling to attribute any blame to Maharaji. They would not want to believe that he knew anything about this. EV just gave them the answer they wanted to hear. Sadly, it will be enough for some people. They won't even question it any further than EV's statement.

You know, if EV isn't a cult, then Maharaji can come to my house, stay in my bed, eat my food and give me knowledge for free (instead of 6,000 dollars and a year or more of my flying around the country chasing and begging after it and trying to prove myself worthy, etc. ad nauseum while I subtley screw myself up in the head)

Love to you, Miss K
VP

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Date: Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 20:45:45 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: VP
Subject: Too true, unfortunately, VP!
Message:
I'm getting more cynical every day (snicker)!
Love to you too -
Katie
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Date: Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 18:46:34 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: I'd also appreciate premies' comments on this:
Message:
From Elanvital.org FAQ, copyright EV, 2000:
Some people say Knowledge didn’t work for them. Why doesn’t it work for everyone?
As with any practice, Knowledge requires commitment and continuing effort to achieve what it has to offer and not everyone wants to make that kind of effort.

In other words, Knowledge works for EVERYONE if they are committed enough and make enough effort. I disagree with this statement, although I know a lot of people (not just premies) that find the techniques to be useful. Anyway, do premies here think this 'one way' approach is valid? I know some of them do - Mili, for example, probably does - but I'm interested in hearing from people like Deputy Dog, Elaine, Mel Bourne, etc.

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Date: Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 21:53:20 (GMT)
From: Fairplay
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: My comments as a human being
Message:
Dear KAtie,

Practicing k seems to work most of the time for people that can practice in the first place. I think the reason why so many premies have to keep watching videos and sattelite broadcasts all the time instead of just practicing every day a maybe doing a bit of service etc is because a lot of premies find it quite/very difficult to practice. That may be the case with many exes as well. Then because they are told they must do at least one hour a day by m they are often carrying around with them guilt and axiety if they can't manage to do this. I know I have experienced this and I really can't believe I'm the only one as I often see anxious looking premies doing service. What do you think about this? Your comments are very welcome.

Fairplay

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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 11:48:32 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Fairplay
Subject: My comments as a human being
Message:
You wrote:

Practicing k seems to work most of the time for people that can practice in the first place.

What are the requirements for 'can practice'? Elan Vital is saying that they are effort and commitment. In my experience, that isn't true - it works for some people who put in effort and commitment, but not for everyone. A lot of people who put in one hour a day (I used to put in TWO hours) don't experience what they are supposed to (according to M and EV).

BTW, I agree that a lot of prmeies don't experience much from knowledge, and feel bad about it (or rather feel bad about themselves because they don't experience much.)

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Date: Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 17:08:46 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Dog
Subject: Agree with Jim (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 16:07:46 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: A touch more 'feedback'
Message:
So I took a few minutes to look over your press kit again and chose the following passage to give you some further 'feedback' about:

Transition

This idyllic childhood came to a sudden end however when his father died in 1966. Suddenly the eight year old child was faced with the task of stepping into his father's shoes. It is not a given that the new master emerges from the previous master’s family. Indeed from the tradition that Shri Hans Ji Maharaj came, this is the only time when it has stayed in the family.

Interesting that you'd mention Shri Hans' 'tradition'. Some contributors to the ex-premie sites have done their own research in this area and have determined, firstly, that Shri Hans was just one of many competing gurus in the Radhasoami tradition. Apparently, what's particularly *traditional* in the Rahhasoamis has been infighting and territorial warfare reminiscent more of New York crime families than any other institution I can think of. Shri Hans fought for power with his peers just as Maharaji has with his brother, Satpal.

Maharaji has never assisted his followers in placing him in any proper historical context. On his own website, he begs off any claim to be offering a *history lesson* while he mentions a few gurus who he claims form some sort of 'lineage' for his authority as a guru. One might be forgiven for assuming that Maharaji prefers a certain level of vagueness and mystique rather than simple clarity in this area. Indeed, look at how tenuous his eplanation for making his own personal claim to *spiritual authority* is:

However the circumstances surrounding how the young Sant-ji became Maharaji are curious. Those close to him at the time said that he had always behaved with a confidence and sense that he was to be the next master, and his father had made it known that it would be his destiny to take this teaching around the world. However his succession was not accepted by some of the leaders of what was now a large and widely recognized organization.

On the day after the funeral, a large crowd waited in the ground of Prem Nagar ashram for an announcement to be made on who should be the next master. Meeting in a small room— a meeting from which Maharaji was excluded on grounds of youth— the key people could not make a decision. Meanwhile, the young Maharaji went out to reassure the people who had gathered to mourn their master’s death. This speech apparently moved the people who heard it to tears. In it Maharaji said there should be no weeping, for what the master taught was always with them, and that he for one was ready to take knowledge forward. And thus the decision was made, not through discussion but through the genuine feeling that Maharaji had evoked in the people present.

So what you're saying is that after Shri Hans' death a few *key people* met somewhere, apparently clueless as to how they might maintain their *now large and weidely-recognized organization*. Then, the precocious pet son of the guru wins over the highly emotional, grieving masses with a bit of a pep talk and that small gesture was all it took to resolve any further questions as to who, if anyone amongst them, had the capacity to enlighten all mankind.

Isn't this a little ridiculous? I mean, really! Can you imagine if the American people did the same thing at JFK's funeral? Annointed little John-John?

For the next few years, Maharaji lived the difficult combination of the full-time life of a schoolboy while, at weekends and vacations, going on teaching assignments, but this dual role was the least of his problems. The shadow of Shri Maharaji was long, and the young Maharaji was regarded by many as a cipher, a substitute for his father who would teach the same subject in the same way. Not only this, but amongst the public at large there was a general skepticism that would dog him until he had reached maturity. People found it very hard to accept that a child could be so intelligent, wise and yet still be a naturally playful little boy when not teaching. Because of this, claims were made that he was coached in what to say, or that he was miming to a tape recording in his public discourses, or indeed that he was not a boy at all but an adult of very small stature!

You mention one type of skepticism only. But weren't there many in India who simply laughed at the young boy's claim to any special wisdom whatsoever? And this 'general skepticism' you speak of, are you suggesting that it CEASED dogging him once he reached maturity? Really?

I guess the real test won't happen until Maharaji decides to dip his toe in the water again. You call this part of your materials a 'Press Kit'. Is Maharaji ever going to have the courage to face the press again? If you watch the last press conference he apparently gave, at Millenium, in the Houston Astrodome, 1973, He comes across as a very self-pitying, petulant little boy. Mind you, he WAS so young then. Just fifteen, I believe. I'm sure he had a lot on his mind then what with hosting *The Most Significant Event in the History of Mankind* and enjoying the throes of his then-fledgling relationship with Marolyn (a/k/a Durga Ji, Goddess of Love).

But that press conference took place 27 years ago and Maharaji has surely matured substantially since then. Is he now ready to face the world again and, when he does, is he ready to openly discuss the many issues surounding his place or lack thereof in the Radhasoami tradition? (Hint: it's hard as hell to remember that word but you'll get used to it. Trust me.)

Jim Heller

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Date: Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 15:48:27 (GMT)
From: Joey
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Upcoming media events with Steve Hassan
Message:
July 6, 2000

Steve Hassan will be interviewed by Tom Crosby on the Voice of America radio network. This interview will be able to be heard on Voice of America's Web site. Steve's interview will initially air at either 6pm or 10pm Eastern time, and will most likely be repeated several times.

July 28, 2000

Steven Hassan, author of Releasing the Bonds, to appear on 'Exploring the Unknown' on Fox Family Cable Television on July 28th at 9 p.m. (Eastern standard time).

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Date: Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 13:28:13 (GMT)
From: Jethro
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Copy of email I have sent to EV
Message:
Dear EV,

Amongst your FAQs you state the following:


Begin Quote

We are aware that some opposing sites make allegations in particular against one individual concerning events alleged to have happened 25 years ago. This kind of behavior, if true, is completely unacceptable to Elan Vital and we would be as appalled as anyone if this was found to be true. The only information we have comes from postings on these sites. We were able to contact two individuals who made these allegations and asked that they help shed light on what happened but as yet have received no cooperation from them. As it stands Elan Vital has still received no direct information from any of the alleged victims and to date no complaint has been filed with Elan Vital or with any authorities.

End quote

lasr December I met up with Ron Geaves, who told me that he was part of the investigating committee investigating Jagdeo's behaviour.

Ron told me that he had seen reports 'from both sides of the Atlantic' and believed from whathe had read that Jagdeo was in it 'up to his neck'.

This does not conform with your information above.

Please can you clarify, or are saying that Ron was lying?

If not , please make the reports avaiable as they are in the public interest.

Jethro Cadbury

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Date: Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 22:59:54 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Jethro
Subject: Questions
Message:
Is Ron Geaves a premie? Did he say who else was on 'the investigating committee?' Was this committee set up by Elan Vital? Thanks.
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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 00:02:31 (GMT)
From: Jethro
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Questions
Message:
Yes.no.Yes

Sorry in a hurry

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Date: Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 22:11:57 (GMT)
From: Fairplay
Email: None
To: Jethro
Subject: Copy of email I have sent to EV
Message:
Dear Jethro,

Thanks for sending the email to Elan Vital (I assume that is Glen Whittaker in the U.K.) Also thanks for letting us know that Ron Geaves is part of an investigation commitee (I assume in the U.K.) and that there is an investigation comittee. Was this formed by Elan Vital or a separate group?

I notice that Ron Geaves posted recently on Enjoying Life with his story about 'the good old days'

Fairplay

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Date: Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 14:00:18 (GMT)
From: Tonette
Email: netguest42@yahoo.com
To: Jethro
Subject: EV come clean?
Message:
They are so good at deception and lying but hey, they have had lessons from the best, The MASTER! I wish the kids who were molested would take the whole organization to the cleaners! Didn't Rashneesh(sp?) get deported for something similar?
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Date: Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 19:09:00 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Tonette
Subject: EV come clean?
Message:
Hi, Tonette,

The Bhagwan/Rajneesh/Osho (he used all three names at varying stages) connection isn't quite the same as the Maha's (trust me on this - I'm an ex-sannyasin as well as ex-premie).

The commune in Oregon was disbanded in late 1985 after Rajneesh was convicted of immigration fraud and deported to his native India. Several commune leaders were convicted of crimes ranging from wiretapping to arson to attempted murder. Rajneesh died in 1990.

In fact you've just this second reminded me of one INCREDIBLE similarity between the two gurus.

OOOOooooh BOY!!! Somebody's gonna be kicking themselves about this!!!

What am I excited about? Check this:

Rajneesh's organisation got stripped of its non-profit/charity status ONLY when he publicly declared that his teaching was NOT A RELIGION.

Remind you of anything that Elan Vital's been saying recently???

Hah!

I think we could get him on this one!!!

Who do we contact???


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Date: Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 20:11:53 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: kudos and a brickbat for ya , Chris
Message:
Chris,

GREAT POINT about the status and being or not being a religion !!!

But good gawd man, maybe you should have sent this info in confidence to one of the legal beagles. I'll bet EV will be scurrying to cover their ass on this one now they are alerted to it.

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Date: Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 20:40:10 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Why thanks on being the first, Gerry, ol' pal ...
Message:
Don't fret, Gerry, I've just discovered that it's been on the Maha's own website for ages:

From the Maha's own website:

QUOTE:

Does Maharaji advocate a specific lifestyle or religion?
Maharaji neither encourages nor discourages any
particular lifestyle or religion, and his teachings are
independent of either.

ENDQUOTE

Heh heh!

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Date: Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 19:02:48 (GMT)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: Jethro
Subject: EV email
Message:
Jethro: Thank you for sending the email to EV about Susan and Abi's abuse at the hands of Jagdeo. The false comments in the FAQ's about this situation are perhaps the most disturbing of all. Please post any reply you receive. I'm not holding my breath.

Marianne

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Date: Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 20:08:15 (GMT)
From: Jethro
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: EV email
Message:
Hi Marianne

I had hoped that Ron Geaves would have posted here himself. I am really disappointed that he hasn't.

I will post any reply I get, but if anyonwe there had any decency they would have addressed the situation a long time ago.

It strange, they consider themselves the cream of humanity, when in reality they are the lowest form of life.

Take care

Jethro

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Date: Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 19:14:59 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Marianne, Jethro et al.
Subject: and here's some moral support from another quarter
Message:
Guess who said the following:

Why Publicly Name Disreputable Teachers?

' Each student must be encouraged to take responsible measures to confront teachers with unethical aspects of their conduct. If the teacher shows no sign of reform, students should not hesitate to publicize any unethical behavior of which there is irrefutable evidence. This should be done irrespective of other beneficial aspects of his or her work and of one's spiritual commitment to that teacher. '

Who said it? Answer = none other than the Dalai Lama!

There's more at http://www.stelling.nl/simpos/sexual_abuse.htm

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Date: Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 11:49:18 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: ELKies respond to historic EV FAQs!
Message:
At last the premies on ELK are speaking out about the issues aired anew in the EV FAQs etc.:

Raindrops

I listen
to the words of the heart.
I ponder them with the clarity of mind,
and contemplate them with the pureness of truth.
I see
sunbeams coming through the trees;
they shine like mirrors in the raindrops
on the leaves.
Everything is new again.
I feel
human consciousness return to my heart.
This is a voyage of beauty without return.

Ivete Belfort Mattos
Sao Paulo, Brazil

*************************

The breath

Magnificent, wonderful, precious breath.
Teaching me silently every moment.
When you arrive I need to accept you
and when you leave I need to surrender.

Inhale, exhale
Fullness and emptiness
Inhale, exhale
Effort, surrender

Inhale: taking in each new moment, being born anew
Exhale: emptying of the past, giving up, dying

Rhythm. Harmony. Balance. Trust. Acceptance. Surrender.
.

Eleni Kyriakopoulou
Athens, Greece

*************

Four cups

Arriving from sleep's land
in the morning,
I am greeted.
Invited to come in and sit.
To rest from this long journey:
'Here are four cups.
Drink until you are satisfied.'
I feel comfortable so I can stick around,
and listen to wise words.
And I can also help others to find this place.
What a fine, incredible feeling.
My entire heart delights.


Alice F. Barbossa
Miami, Florida


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Date: Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 13:17:53 (GMT)
From: Tonette
Email: netguest42@yahoo.com
To: Jim
Subject: what are elkies? (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 22:23:20 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Tonette
Subject: what are elkies? (nt)
Message:
Hi Tonette,

Nice to meet you and I'm glad you are here.

Elkies are premies, of course, and the name is derived from the website www.enjoyinglife.org which is short for 'Enjoying Life with Knowledge. Sickening, huh?

Best to you and your hubby.

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Date: Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 03:13:08 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: A little more 'feedback' I just sent to EV
Message:
Hi guys. Me again. Are you getting much feedback from others? I've been trying to contact Terry, the public relations person at your office but only get her voice mail. You'll have to explain how that all works in your next FAQ I guess.

Anyway, I'm writing regarding this paragraph:

Elan Vital’s policy is that everyone, whether a paid employee or volunteer, must behave with respect and decency. In this respect our guidelines are similar to those of any other responsible profit or not-for-profit organization. Elan Vital adheres to widely accepted practices in dealing with reasonable complaints made against any of our personnel, using established internal and external disciplinary procedures and, if necessary, in conjunction with relevant external legislation.

What happened with Fakiranand? As I said the other day, Mike Donner, former president of your army of VOLUNTEERS, told me directly that he met with Maharaji after the hammer incident. He said that Maharaji ordered him to drive Fakiranand from Detroit to Chicago and then across the Canadian border where he was subsequently flown to Europe and, supposedly, points beyond. This is especially interesting when one considers that Detroit is, of course, right on the Canadian border which fact raises an inference, in my mind at least, that Maharaji was well aware that the authorities might be looking for his 'little bliss monkey' (or whatever his name meant).

Again I ask you, is Mike Donner a liar? If not, how does this most frightening example of literally deadly abuse of power jive with your statement above? Come on, fellas, let's talk!

Jim Heller

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Date: Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 03:21:51 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: fitzory@liverpool.ac.uk
To: Jim
Subject: Love the 'little bliss monkey...'
Message:
Disingenous but genius.
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Date: Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 03:23:45 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: Disingenuous? Hey, what's 'Nigel' mean in Hindi?
Message:
Hi Nige,

How's it going?

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Date: Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 03:32:25 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: fitzroy@liverpool.ac.uk
To: Jim
Subject: Disingenuous? Hey, what's 'Nigel' mean in Hindi?
Message:
Hmm, dunno Jim, but in all the Latinate languages 'Nigel' means things like blackness, doom and darkness, apparently.

But going pretty good, thanks. How's you?

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Date: Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 11:50:02 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: Disingenuous? Hey, what's 'Nigel' mean in Hindi?
Message:
Not bad.
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Date: Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 04:50:34 (GMT)
From: TD
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: Doesn't it mean 'time is upon us for hair mousse'?
Message:
Cryptic eh?
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Date: Fri, Jul 07, 2000 at 13:43:24 (GMT)
From: NIgel
Email: fitzroy@liverpool.ac.uk
To: TD
Subject: Yeah, just like 'TD' means...
Message:
'Canine highlander embracing 20% inadequate quadruped...'?
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Date: Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 01:30:43 (GMT)
From: Larkin
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: well it passes the time...
Message:
oh dear! what can the matter be?
prem's on his solid gold lavatory
he's been stuck there since saturday
why is he hiding in there?

he's trying to practise his own meditation
to ease his sour conscience in deep cogitation
or is it a case of some bad constipation?
no wonder he's tearing his hair...

and it's oh, dear! what can the matter be?
first, there was trouble with mata ji
now there's this sicko mahatma ji
Life for a Lord's so unfair

he promised to bring us to true liberation
he promised to grant us eternal salvation
just watch me and nation will speak unto nation...
so why's it all going nowhere?

And it's oh dear! what can the matter be?
prem's on his solid gold lavatory
he's been stuck there since saturday
getting more close to despair...

he promised to feed all the poor of the planet
so every pauper would gorge like a gannet
if only he'd found enough time just to plan it
he might now be getting somewhere...

but it's oh, dear! what can the matter be?
first, there was trouble with mata ji
now there's this sicko mahatma ji...
Life for a lord's so unfair...

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Date: Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 06:07:40 (GMT)
From: JohnT
Email: None
To: Larkin
Subject: The Nightmare...
Message:
... is the title of a poem by W S Gilbert (one place to find it is in 'the Nation's Favourite Comic Poems' as published by the BBC). Wonder if you've come across that?

I always enjoy reading your stuff, and as an aspiring rhymer, would like to share an idea with you.

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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 07:39:14 (GMT)
From: larkin
Email: None
To: JohnT
Subject: The Nightmare...
Message:
Got your email John - in a rush, but will respond...
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Date: Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 03:28:46 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: mishkat@gateway.net
To: Larkin
Subject: Oh Larkin, dear
Message:
(My mother used to sing that song - the original one - to get us to go to sleep.)

An aspiring rhymer just asked me for your e-mail address, and I couldn't give it to them without your permission. But I seemed to remember that you often put it on the forum? Anyway, drop me a line, and let me know if it's OK - maybe I can just forward their e-mail to you.

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Date: Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 00:13:01 (GMT)
From: Tonette
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Focus of the forum
Message:
I find this forum GREAT! Very healing. Besides helping aspirants and helping premies get over the hump of doubt-how are we ever going to expose this fraud called Maharaji? I personally feel that he has done ALOT of harm! In fact I don't feel it-he has done alot of harm. So is he ever going to have to make amends? Is there a plan?
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Date: Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 00:52:34 (GMT)
From: Lotus Eater
Email: None
To: Tonette
Subject: Fight fire with fire
Message:
Dear Tonette,
i agree with you, I too am very appreciative of this forum.
Plan? For me, same as his:

Do you know what I did recently, stopped my automatic donation.
Why? because I was now sufficiently informed and comfortable to do it.
I dont attend events anymore, and we have been steady contributors on a local level.
I don't buy videos anymore.
I tell 'interested people' to check out the ex-premie site.
I talk to my premie friends.

Ah, here is a plan....we need money for legal fees right? what about selling t shirts with 'I joined a cult (appropriate picture) and all I got was this t shirt' on it! (joke)

I agree, he does seem to be facing up to a doozy of a mid life crisis; well, we're here aren't we, and I mean in our lives, not just this forum and we have experienced a lot of the stuff that the next lot of bruised and bleeding 'yet to know they are members of a devotional cult' are going through.

Finally, I would like to say thank you to everyone here, it has been such a pleasure to have a real discussion about K & M. LE

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Date: Tues, Jul 04, 2000 at 19:47:59 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: 'My Lord, my All to me'
Message:
FAQs to Elan Vital

Has anyone noticed that Elan Vital's own website says that its most Frequently Asked Questions (FAQs) have nothing to do with 'the Knowledge', and ALL to do with ex-premie.org's criticisms?

Next they'll be telling us that Maharaji's message has never changed !!!

Oh. I see.

They are.

'... the message itself has never changed' (from Elan Vital's own website - copyright etc. still theirs, but still quotable in criticism/satire/lampoon etc.)

So he's still 'all-knowing' then? (twameva mata, chapita twameva, ... - some of the words to the hymn called 'Arti' - which we in the ashram sang every morning - and which continues ... 'you are my Lord, my All to me').

What does Elan Vital say?

They say: 'Did Maharaji ever say he was God?' - No. Maharaji never at any time claimed to be God'

- nah. That was the premies' job.

(PS - could his 'Holy Family' might have had something to do with it too?) Oh I see, it was their fault.

To cap it all, Elan Vital says this: 'Elan Vital is not led by Maharaji, nor is he involved with the management of any of the organisation's activities'

Huh?

Oh. I see.

For sure.

And who wouldn't believe them?? WHO?

(they're saying he IS'NT involved, not that he WASN'T involved ... get it?)

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Date: Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 07:20:27 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: Management of EV's activities ? Only HIM!!
Message:
of course he doesn't care for the petty problems.

But who's been the only speaker at the EV's managers/organizers conferences ?

Mr Rawat.

And I've been a part of countless of these meetings, as well as Mr Whittaker, who is a liar obviously!! I can testify.

Who's organizing His Events ? Himself !!

Who's designing His Stage ? Himself !!

Who's chosing and firing the intenrational organizers and instructors ? Himself !!!

Who wrote the Instructor manual ? Himself !!

Who wrote the Ashram manual ? Himself !!

Isn't this one more blatant lie ??

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Date: Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 17:59:14 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: HE who the Creator,Preserver and Destroyer bow to!
Message:
Never claimed he was God - sez Elan Vital.

Thinks ... if it's from Elan Vital it must be double-speak ...

- oh I get it:

I'd nearly forgotten that one of the verses of arti (which Maharaji liked to hear sung to him) goes:

'Creator, Preserver, Destroyer
Bow their heads and pray to You,
All bow and pray to You ...'

Now, if Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva (the Hindu 'Trinity' for God') bow to little ol' Maharaji, well, Elan Vital might be technically right on this one.

He didn't claim he was God. He claimed he was 'greater than God'. Hah!

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Date: Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 01:33:47 (GMT)
From: Know It All
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: maha is not involved with mgmt of EV?
Message:
So maha is not involved with the management of EV? Then who is? Tell us please. You mean to tell me that Maha had nothing to do with the decisions to close the ex websites? That's a laugh. His fingerprints are all over it.

KIA

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Date: Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 02:45:54 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: Know It All
Subject: maha is not involved with mgmt of EV?
Message:
That statement IS MORONIC!! Maybe that he was/is the boss was only implied BUT was/is understood by all around him and those doing service in communities what is all about. Maharaji wants this or that...I have a letter from some top hot of EV where she says: Maharaji wants you to look at what is not working -propagation was non-existent, and, Maharaji wants to know why you don't invite him to your city, something like that, but later, when he did decided to have a program it was announced that Maharaji Has Accepted An Invitation.... Fakes!! This is the worse, and I may have a cassette of that program, in Aurora, Chicago Maharaji had a slide 'show' of all what had been acomplished and what needed to happen, and he went on and read information including that people were needed to do service; electricians, ingeniers, constructors, computers analysts, etc. and he said, ' I also need dummies', take that one!!

Furthermore, I remember many videos for premies only about participation/service and especially one where Maharaji explains about what is needed to participate and very strongly he emphasized the need for synchronization, a need for everybody to work together. What is the meaning of that? He also said that there was a need (I have the video)to give 150% of your effort. I honestly say that even as a premie, then, found that video disgusting; I couldn't believe the tone of voice and body language of Maharaji...so authoritative, scary! Who is the boss, Mr. Rawat?? It will be my pleasure to DIG for those videos and I will post them here soon.

Shame on him. He is fake as he can be. Totally dishonest person.

SB

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Date: Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 01:08:20 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: fitroy@liverpool.ac.uk
To: cq
Subject: IAQ (Infrequently answered questions)
Message:
Ah - the beauty of bullshit! When it's done right - as it is right here (not cq's post but the FAQ quotes lower down) - one could SO easily bend down low and taste the spin doctor's silk socks. So plausible, nice, decent, forgivable. Let your anger subside - find that place. Cross-cultural misunderstandings can happen anywhere. Maharaji is happy to re-explain, if you're willing….

Reading Glen Whittaker's apologia for M's past I resisted easily enough (or easy for a veteran ex like me) but it bothers me that practicing, and even out-of-practice premies, site visitors etc. will treat this stuff as gospel - given that gospel is what they're probably hoping for.

cq wrote:

(PS - could his 'Holy Family' might have had something to do with it too?) Oh I see, it was their fault.

Mr Whittaker, unled by Maharaji, lest we forget, is merely expressing an opinion - ok? Got that? This has nothing to do with how Maharaji would like the rest of us to view him, but everything to do with how Glen alone thinks we should view M. And, we must assume, how Glen thinks we should view Maharaji is what Elan Vital thinks Maharaji would want EV to think interested outsiders would want to hear when asking questions about Maharajj and EV have given their (NOT MAHARAJI'S, YOU UNDERSTAND) blessing.. (It sounds complicated, but makes sense when you listen to your heart.)

For your own sake, you can reframe this sorry mess by realising that bad, bad, dead, mother Mata Ji and double-bad, bad unfortunately still-Living Lord of the Universe and sibling Satpal (aka. 'Guru Mahara Ji') foisted a culture of slavering devotion when all (never once Lord of the Universe) Prem Rawat wanted to do was teach proper meditation. It is always sad when a selfless humanitarian is misrepresented. Gonna call Amnesty Int…

Sadder thing still (unlike with political spin-doctors like Alistair Campbell - bullshit-spinner-in-chief for Tory Blair) is realising that Glen actually believes the words he is now writing. He must do otherwise he wouldn't be able to do it without puking, because, in spite of Glen's reinterpretation being such a pile of obvious hokum, I sincerely believe the guy is himself sincere

These are his THOUGHTS. This is how he thinks. It is so insidious, so creepy…. Yuk and fookin double yuk!


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Date: Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 20:02:25 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: Did EV say something?
Message:
You'll like this one from EV's FAQ page, Nigel:

'no attempt is made by Elan Vital or Maharaji to influence or manipulate anyone’s thinking.'

Now is that a blatantly stupid thing to say or WHAT?

(Brer Bear to Brer Fox:
'Duh ... like, ... you mean, ... what they're saying right here isn't supposed to be influencing my thinking ??? - Duh, ... then what are they saying it for?')

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Date: Fri, Jul 07, 2000 at 02:45:13 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: CQ: LOL
Message:
They write for the premies not for us. The premies believe anything....
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Date: Fri, Jul 07, 2000 at 17:15:28 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: SB
Subject: ah, but this is part of EV's PRESS KIT !!!
Message:
yeah, I remember, when I was a trusting little premie, I tended to gloss over anything that involved thinking a bit harder than normal. If it sounded like someone had answered the question, I usually managed to avoid thinking about the concepts involved, and went back to the warm and fuzzies inside.

WHY Elan Vital think that such an attitude is going to work on the world's press is quite another matter ...!

You gotta laugh, haven't you!

Hah hah haaaah ....!!! (yawn)

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Date: Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 03:27:52 (GMT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: IAQ (Infrequently answered questions)
Message:
Sadder thing still (unlike with political spin-doctors like Alistair Campbell - bullshit-spinner-in-chief for Tory Blair) is realising that Glen actually believes the words he is now writing.

Of course he does, Nigel. He's in a goddam cult. And what's the first rule of being in a cult? The cult leader can do no wrong. If something has gone awry in the cult, blame somebody else, never the cult leader. Once the cult leader looks flawed, you can't help but to question your own involvement. Once that happens, you're on your way out of the cult. Scary proposition. Best to vindicate the cult leader anyway you can. You remain a member in good standing that way and don't have to bother yourself with pesky little thoughts that this might not be all it's cranked up to be.

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Date: Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 02:43:49 (GMT)
From: Fairplay
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: IAQ (Infrequently answered questions)
Message:
Dear Nigel,

I sent you an email seeing as you are one of the few that gives yours out. I'm not sure how you or anyone know this is the penmanship of Glen Whittaker. I've read the FAQ's on the U.S. Elan Vital site but didn't see any name ie Glen. Also as Glen runs Elan Vital U.K. what's he doing writing for U.S. Elan Vital. I know he went to Oxford and all but can't anyone else in the U.S. write?

Please enlighten me. And p.s Gmom/Sue should really reply to the offer of following up this alleged child abuse by Jagdeo, now. So we can all get the facts and heal the injustice done.

Fairplay

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Date: Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 03:32:56 (GMT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Fairplay
Subject: IAQ (Infrequently answered questions)
Message:
And p.s Gmom/Sue should really reply to the offer of following up this alleged child abuse by Jagdeo, now. So we can all get the facts and heal the injustice done.

Fuck you, Fairplay. Susan has already been through the ringer enough on this. She was abused by a mahatma. She sent word to Maharaji. He got the word and did nothing about it. When are you going to let that in?

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Date: Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 03:20:57 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Fairplay
Subject: IAQ (Infrequently answered questions)
Message:
I don't think anyone is saying that Glen Whittaker wrote the FAQ. What he did write is something in the 'Perspectives' section of the Elan Vital site about the history of the organizations, which you really ought to read. Unbelievable revisionism, IMHO.

BTW, please lay off of Susan - it is not like she hasn't tried to contact EV before. For them to say that she would not talk to them is a flat-out lie. (Personally, I do not think she owes them anything, especially since they have never really tried to contact HER.)

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Date: Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 03:42:43 (GMT)
From: Fairplay
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: Responding to Elan Vital
Message:
Dear Katie,

Anthony and others here have been wanting a response from Elan Vital re the situation with Jagdeo. Now Elan Vital has responded for all premies and exes to see - shouldn't you all be taking Elan Vital up on it?

I don't get it?

I know you seem to have got the wrong end of the stick with me but I like the open communication on this forum and I like how you got Elan Vital to cough up some open communication - at least a lot more open than it's ever been before you must admit. Pat yourselves on the back. Don't give in now - follow it up.

Fairplay

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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 19:28:59 (GMT)
From: Hal
Email: None
To: Fairplay
Subject: Hi Fairplay ot
Message:
Hi Fairplay,

Thanks for your reply on the query I made as to whether you are Bjorn. Having read more of your posts I can plainly see that you are not similar at all. I'm not sure why I thought that.

Portugal is hot hot hot. Too hot to do anything except swim.

Best wishes
hal

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Date: Fri, Jul 07, 2000 at 14:44:41 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Hal
Subject: Well Hal, the FA's say 'Fairplay' IS INDEED Bjorn
Message:
When you thought that was the case, you were apparently correct. It's only when this person LIED STRAIGHT TO YOUR FACE that you began to doubt your judgement.
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Date: Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 10:28:11 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Fairplay
Subject: Responding to Elan Vital
Message:
Frankly, it is up to Susan, and I see it as more of a personal than a political decision - in other words, she should do what is best for HER. That is why I do not think you or anyone else on the forum should urge her to do this or that. She is fully capable of making the right decision.

Sincerely,
Katie

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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 02:39:06 (GMT)
From: VP
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: Avoidance points to guilt
Message:
If anyone sat and thought about this, they would see how clear it is that what Susan, Abi and other have said is true.

If I worked for EV and someone unfairly accused me of sexual abuse, I would be coming after them to defend my good name and EV's.

If someone in the company that I own sexually abused someone, I would be contacting the victims and the accused to get to the bottom of it. If it proved to be untrue, I would go after the person who made false statements legally. EV knows they can't do this.

EV has not attempted to contact any of the alleged victims. They say that no complaints were filed when they were. It's like they are playing a giant game of let's pretend where they just pretend it didn't happen and everything will go away.

I agree that Susan shouldn't have to contact EV again. It would be fruitless (hate to sound so cynical, but...) If they were truly concerned, or felt one of their employees was being slandered or falsely accused, believe me, they would contact her.

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Date: Fri, Jul 07, 2000 at 04:24:46 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: VP
Subject: Avoidance points to guilt
Message:
Hi!

You said it clearly.

If they were truly concerned, or felt one of their employees was being slandered or falsely accused, believe me, they would contact her.

Elan Vital had an opportunity to show their concern and missed it.

I like very much your posts!

SB

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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 17:26:33 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: VP
Subject: 'Avoidance points to guilt' - not always, but ...
Message:
EV have the nerve to try and justify their lack of action by saying:

'our guidelines are similar to those of any other responsible profit or not-for-profit organization.'

- which in itself means next to nothing.

'similar to'. ... I ask you.

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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 17:38:28 (GMT)
From: VP
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: 'Avoidance points to guilt' - not always, but ...
Message:
In this particular situation, I think EV's avoidance of a direct answer and avoidance of 'dealing with this' is very telling.
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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 18:39:40 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: VP
Subject: read you, VP.Check Elaine's response to U above.nt
Message:
read you, VP.Check Elaine's response to U above.nt
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Date: Fri, Jul 07, 2000 at 04:11:36 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: What questions? She didn't see them
Message:
memememememeemmememememe....

Elaine is not interested in having a discussion but a monologue. She reads her posts and rejoices, convincing herself all is fine and she is ALL good. In her HEIGHTS she can't see much down here...because what does she cares about honesty? karma takes care of everything...lets beat Jagdeo...

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Date: Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 06:46:59 (GMT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Fairplay
Subject: Maybe this will help, moron
Message:
Click here to read about it, if you haven't already. Fuck Elan Vital. If anybody's going to talk to them from here on in, it's going to be the police, as well it should.
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Date: Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 03:28:39 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: fitzroy@liverpool.ac.uk
To: Katie
Subject: IAQ (Infrequently answered questions)
Message:
Hi Katie,

Fairp might be right here, I may indeed have misidentified the author of the 'FAQ' as being the literary craftman behind 'Perspectives', but - jeez - one revisionist sounds so much like the other these days it's hard for the average viewer to get any kind of clear perspective on things.

Time for bed... (Well past, in fact!)

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Date: Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 03:30:43 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: IAQ (Infrequently answered questions)
Message:
Glen Whittaker did indeed write quite an impressive (?) apologia for M's past. (Why they don't leave this stuff alone is beyond me, but it's there.)

Sleep well!
Katie

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Date: Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 03:12:48 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: None
To: Fairplay
Subject: What email??
Message:
Dear Nigel,
I sent you an email seeing as you are one of the few that gives yours out.

There is nothing in my inbox from 'Fairplay' or anyone else I don't know. Who the fuck are you?

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Date: Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 03:18:47 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: fitzroy@liverpool.ac.uk
To: Nigel
Subject: Are you Scandinavian? (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 04:17:28 (GMT)
From: gErRy
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: Duh !!! Of course, it's BJORN !!!
Message:
It fits. His attacking me as 'unfair,' the crappy fake name, the evasiveness, the lying, and most obvious of all...his obsession with sexual abuse.
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Date: Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 02:49:51 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Fairplay
Subject: A little clarification, Fairplay
Message:
Please enlighten me. And p.s Gmom/Sue should really reply to the offer of following up this alleged child abuse by Jagdeo, now. So we can all get the facts and heal the injustice done.

You want enlightenment, you came to the wrong place. But beside that, I can tell you that you're wrong to take EV's account of how these allegations surfaced, etc. at face value. Somewhere around here David's got a web site with all the relevant correspondence with Whittaker. I'd give you the link but I don't have it. However, you should read that for a better understanding. EV's lying as usual. Not to say that Susan couldn't yet again take the matter up with EV but to say that she hasn't is simply a lie.

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Date: Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 02:54:29 (GMT)
From: Fairplay
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: We all want clarification
Message:
Gee Jim, that was quick. I'm talking about the FAQ on Elan Vital U.S. site. Why are peopl here saying Glen wote that stuff?

Fairplay

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Date: Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 03:03:17 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Fairplay
Subject: Didn't you read my other post to you?
Message:
Who are you? Where'd you come from? I'm not going to answer any more of your questions until you put a little flesh on these bones.
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Date: Tues, Jul 04, 2000 at 19:57:24 (GMT)
From: Tonette
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: If he isn't involved???
Message:
Then why does EV exist? What? Shit he gave them the name-Vital Force. Hello. DUH! They don't say that do they? And if they are non profit just where does the money they earn from trinkets and videos go to? Hotel conferance rooms just don't cost that much! Yes, alot of legalize to cover their and HIS tracks I suspect.
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Date: Tues, Jul 04, 2000 at 20:21:01 (GMT)
From: Fairplay
Email: None
To: To All
Subject: Reverse Robin Hood
Message:
Dear Tonette,

Come to think of it M retired a long time ago when he became the speaker. He takes no responsibility of the business of Elan Vital but agrees to speak once in a while, somewhat like a consultant and also he is 'humble' enough to receive generous gifts from Elan Vital - who instead of stealing from the rich to help the poor, steal from the poor to help the rich.

The employees of Elan Vital as well as the instructors are allowed to dive into this bootie on a regular basis 'to look good for M' & clothe themselves in wools & silks and stay at very comfortable hotels at the expense of the poorer premies/donators who have to dress from thrift stores and stay at the Y when they go to see M and for that matter, most of the time.

An Observation,

Fairplay

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Date: Tues, Jul 04, 2000 at 20:14:14 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Tonette
Subject: Oh *for sure* he isn't involved ...
Message:
Oh *for sure* he isn't involved ...

never was, never will be ...

(how many suckers are gonna lap this up?)

PS - do, please, check my reply to gerry in the thread below.

Regards,

Chris

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Date: Tues, Jul 04, 2000 at 19:45:41 (GMT)
From: Bobby
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: kechari mudra
Message:
Kechari mudra, the 'nectar technique' given as part of knowledge, at least when I received it back in the early 70's, is an authentic, even high spiritual technique.

It's one thing if you as a premie or ex- haven't experienced the power of this and quite another thing if you diss this precious experience as the mere taste of snot. This technique works. I fault no one for not having had significant experience with this, but please don't diss others who have had wonderful experience.

Describing the kechari mudra as mere taste of snot is like describing sex as exchange of sticky, gross body fluids. I gratefully continue my experiences of both Kechari and sex and look forward to the experience of more and more.

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Date: Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 21:29:28 (GMT)
From: Paul of T
Email: None
To: Bobby et al.
Subject: Blessed are the gleaners...
Message:
for they can gather wheat from a lot of tare fields.
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Date: Tues, Jul 04, 2000 at 23:12:12 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Bobby
Subject: Well that settles that, I guess
Message:
Bobby,

I find it offensive that you refuse to debate your beliefs but still come here to espouse them. I think the word is 'potshot', isn't it?

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Date: Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 00:13:17 (GMT)
From: shp
Email: None
To: Bobby
Subject: According to Jim, if you don't debate....
Message:
you are some kind of candy ass loser or something. He has not run into that thing which cannot be debated yet. He wants the Disney/Speilberg version of life that makes everything nicenice or else it's a fraud. Poor guy, he better not look in the mirror too close or he'll shit his pants, puke and have a nervous breakdown at the same time.

I wonder if he has noticed yet that one of his eyes and one of his ears is higher than the other ones. Bilateral symmetry, what a load of shit, eh Jim?

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Date: Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 00:48:40 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: shp
Subject: Get the fuck off this page, shp
Message:
This is a DISCUSSION board. Just because you don't have the brains or temperment to properly discuss something doesn't mean others don't. You're an insignificant gadfly at best, shp. This IS a war and your side is losing. Personally, I don't think it could happen to a more worthwhile fool.
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Date: Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 18:15:39 (GMT)
From: shp
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Discussion? I thought you said it was a debate.
Message:
Make up your mind.
Forums are not warzones, quite the opposite.
Forums exist in part to avoid wars if possible.
Insults and flattery, praise and blame, will get you nowhere in reality.
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Date: Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 18:30:29 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: shp
Subject: What do think, Sandy
Message:
First I have to say I respect your using your real name and the fact that you expressed your concerns to EV about Jagdeo.

So what's your take on EV's latest efforts? Do you find anything to be less than truthful there Sandy?

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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 15:05:01 (GMT)
From: shp
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: What do think, Sandy
Message:
gerry,

Regarding EV, I think that communication is better than no communication and that it takes time to become articulate if silence and secrecy have been the rule a long time. Communication
is not just talking and listening, faxing and beeping, posting and e-mailing. I believe that real communication has substance and content that nourish and edify both the transmitter and receiver if done properly.

Yeah, EV has alot to deal with being an international entity, and it also has to represent Maharaji and his work, but it also has a commitment to being straight if it expects to be trusted and believed by those involved past, present and future.

I remember in a situation long ago, I heard some premies talking about how 'honesty is the best policy' and then a premie said that 'devotion is the best policy'. I wondered but did not have the opportunity to ask at the time if the speaker believed that implies that honesty can be superceded by devotion and that it's OK to be dishonest if it's out of devotion? I don't see it myself that way, but I have heard that in some religious groups, it's cool to do whatever it takes to get the job done, because 'God is on one's side'.

I remember being at a late 70's Hans Jayanti and Maharaji was talking about staying longer and not worrying about our little jobs and our 'little bosses', but rather we should be concerned about the 'Big Boss'...I took it to mean him, and I think everyone else there took it that way too. I had no problem with that at the time. Maybe 1/10 of a percent got esoteric and believed it was each person's divinity within who was the 'big boss'. Either way, I find it difficult to the point of almost impossible - to reconcile that the person I have considered to be the 'big boss' for the over the last 20 years one way or another did not or could not stop someone like Jagdeo slip through the security net and hurt kids - premie kids - for years. Like I have said, I can live with his many other 'lilas' like the wealth, houses, cars, human dramas, etc and sleep OK at night and consider myself a premie and not feel threatened by anything or anyone here or anywhere. But then when I think of Jagdeo, I definitely would not do the PR on that one, no way. Only if the whole truth could come out would I stand in that line of fire, and I hope that someday soon all is aired out and healing can begin on deeper levels for all involved.

If one truly wants to connect and communicate with EV or anyone or group, whether you agree with them or not, then keep the channels open, keep it clean from your end and maintain high standards of communication. Maintaining mutual respect and civility, but still calling it like one sees it, seems like a good way to go.

My own involvement here is inspiring me to write to them again and seek answers from where I sit. After that first letter I wrote to EV and the subsequent non-informational repsonse, I got pretty ticked myself. So when I get ticked, I either go off on somebody or just back way off, cool down and think about what else works better than impulsiveness and high dramatic emotion.
In this case, I am still cooling down. After 20 years, this is going to take some time to deal with thoroughly. But the process has begun.

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Date: Fri, Jul 07, 2000 at 03:17:40 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: shp
Subject: What do think, Sandy
Message:
Sandy,

It made me very happy to read your post, as you seem to be speaking differently in the last posts. Maharaji is not at all what he seems and the only way he is ever going to stop deceiving people is if the premies stop supporting him and begin to reason properly.

Love,

SB

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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 17:00:44 (GMT)
From: VP
Email: None
To: shp
Subject: What do think, Sandy
Message:
I remember in a situation long ago, I heard some premies talking about how 'honesty is the best policy' and then a premie said that 'devotion is the best policy'. I wondered but did not have the opportunity to ask at the time if the speaker believed that implies that honesty can be superceded by devotion and that it's OK to be dishonest if it's out of devotion? I don't see it myself that way, but I have heard that in some religious groups, it's cool to do whatever it takes to get the job done, because 'God is on one's side'.

Good point, shp. Many attrocities have been committed in the name of devotion. Devotion to a God, sect, institution or idea. Just because someone feels strongly about Maharaji, doesn't make a dishonest act in his name justified.

Honesty is more important than devotion in my opinion.

If you devote to something dishonest, that is something to examine as well.

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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 15:19:08 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: shp
Subject: What do you think, Sandy
Message:
Sandy, thanks. You have my sympathy for what that's worth. Yeah, you're seeing the cracks in the walls. I don't need to point them out to you. You have a good mind and conscience. I'm sure you'll sort this all out.
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Date: Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 02:37:31 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: fitzroy@liverpool.ac.uk
To: Jim
Subject: 'war' is the wrong word...
Message:
More of an uprising or people's rebellion, if we're gonna think in militaristic or political terms. People once denied freedoms of choice, thought and expression (at least within the closed loop of cult existence where mind was the enemy) now claiming or discovering all three. But yes, however you conceptualise it, Maharaji cannot keep either his past or his former followers tucked away in the cupboard in the cool fresh air of the internet.

Glasnost or perestroika or something (God, I wish the England football team had a decent perestroikas...)

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Date: Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 00:04:49 (GMT)
From: Bobby
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Well that settles that, I guess
Message:
Sorry you're offended Jim. I'm not here to offend you or anyone else. I don't care to debate with you cause we just ain't on the same ground. I'm not in your court so to speak and I don't want to be.

What's to debate anyway? Whether spirit exists or not? Whether what I experience exists? You just spit on it. I come here to speak with folks I can relate with. I can't relate with you.

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Date: Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 00:56:14 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Bobby
Subject: Since you ask ......
Message:
What's to debate anyway? Whether spirit exists or not? Whether what I experience exists?

Those are general discussions we have in fact had here and will continue to have here as you well know. In the past you have indeed started to argue one point or another but each time have backed out claiming a 'knowledge' that's beyond proof or reason. The thing is, Bobby, YOU backed out. Not me or the other party, you. And, like I say, you always made a big deal about how you wouldn't deign to squabble over such matters. Remember?

So now you come here and post your beliefs about this so-called 'nectar' technique which, you know, most of us think is junk. That'd be fine if it weren't for the fact that you know as well as I do that you'll take great offence and basically cry bloody murder as soon as anyone confronts you on this. Just like all the other times.

You ask what's to debate? How about whether or not this technique's real or you're just making much ado about nothing? THAT's the issue, Bobby. Are you game? No, you're not. That's my point.

And it's got nothing to do with me personally. You might say it does but I'm confident that you'd ultimately take the same tack with anyone who presses you in the conversation.

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Date: Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 03:01:03 (GMT)
From: Bobby
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Since you ask ......
Message:
No, Jim, it's really about you.
As usual you twist and distort.
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Date: Tues, Jul 04, 2000 at 20:23:53 (GMT)
From: Fairplay
Email: None
To: Bobby
Subject: This ones for you, Anth.
Message:
Dear Anthony,

Sorry you missed out on this 'better than sex' experience.

Fairplay

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Date: Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 02:56:46 (GMT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Fairplay
Subject: This ones for you, Fairplay
Message:
Let me ask you, Fairplay, how often have you tasted this nectar? Once, twice, everytime? What brings it on? I'm sure you'd have to agree that simply pushing your tongue back toward your nasal cavities to produce an experience of bliss is a rather inane proposition.
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Date: Tues, Jul 04, 2000 at 20:21:39 (GMT)
From: Tonette
Email: None
To: Bobby
Subject: Did you dedicate your life?
Message:
He holds the key. It's his Knowledge. And by-the-way, in order for him to show nectar and holy name,light,music, if you own any funds dedicate those too! I'm the Perfect Master!
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Date: Tues, Jul 04, 2000 at 22:28:55 (GMT)
From: X
Email: None
To: Tonette
Subject: Did you lose it in haste
Message:
>And by-the-way, in order for him to show nectar and holy name,light,music, if you own any funds dedicate those too!

words, words, words

people did and do have beautiful experiences with the simple techniques of K when practised with sincerity
suprising but true

life is suprising but true as are you

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Date: Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 02:17:11 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: fitzroy@liverpool.ac.uk
To: X
Subject: What I find surpising..
Message:
..is the way anonymous premie interlopers like yourself feel compelled to join in and make reponses that have little bearing on anything that has been mentioned in the thread so far, but are merely knee-jerking to anyone who dislikes your cult-based philosophy and your assumptions about what they believe. Why should it matter to you, X? (Hey! - love the alias! Did you spend awhile thinking it up?)

You wrote:

people did and do have beautiful experiences with the simple techniques of K when practised with sincerity
suprising but true

Did Tonette say people don't? have beautiful experiences (with or without placing their tongue in nasal passageway)?

I discovered 'nectar' when I was twelve years old. It had nothing to do with 'K', as you put it, but had a certain pleasing sensation (nothing to do with snot - but, equally, nothing to do with 'maharaji' or his 'precious gift' of 'K') I still do the technique sometimes but, fortunately, don't feel any compulsion to watch videos or kiss feet.

In fact, I am doing 'nectar' right now, even as I type. Does that mean I am practising 'K', even though I consider 'maharaji' to be a materialistic charlatan with zero spiritual pedigree or intellectual know-how?

(As far as I'm concerned, I am doing something I discovered for myself - and, anyway, it can't be knowledge I'm doing, can it? - as you're only supposed to do an hour under a blanket, these days, not 'constantly meditate' etc).

Think.

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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 01:23:59 (GMT)
From: X
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: yes
Message:
>(As far as I'm concerned, I am doing something I discovered for myself - and, anyway, it can't be knowledge I'm doing, can it? - as you're only supposed to do an hour under a blanket, these days, not 'constantly meditate' etc).

Fine!

The greatest answers are not to be found by thought.
I do believe you feel that to be true.
A simple experience can give a person perspective on the whirlwind that is daily life and what we have created through our desires and mental abilities.

Certainly you have heard of the man from planet X.

X

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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 17:20:41 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: X
Subject: greatest answers are not to be found by thought???
Message:
tell it to Socrates, Aristotle, Leonardo, Shakespeare, Newton, Hegel, Einstein, et cetera, et cetera ...

PS what greatest answer have you found by not thinking then? Can you express it?

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Date: Tues, Jul 04, 2000 at 20:09:06 (GMT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: sirdavid12@hotmail.com
To: Bobby
Subject: kechari mudra
Message:
Having got deep into that technique myself (not recently) I can verify it is something else. But I wouldn't personally call it spiritual but rather a deepening of my sensitivity and a real buzz. This isn't to say that you don't find it spiritual but my interpretation only is different.

I will write more about this on The ANYTHING GOES Forum in the near future.

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Date: Tues, Jul 04, 2000 at 20:47:46 (GMT)
From: Bobby
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: kechari mudra
Message:
I'll look to anything goes to continue this. I've been enjoying this technique and love it.

People get what they want. If you want shit you get shit. Or snot.

To me it's a high and authentic technique. I'm interested in authenticity - what works in a pure, truthful, loving and deep way. That's what is spiritual to me. I've spent my life looking for this.

So I would call it more than buzz. I think Kechari means 'sky' in Sanscrit. I'm looking for Buddhist context cause Buddhist I am. I'm coming up with references to Kechari paradise and I currently do yogas associated with this.

I post here now to state that I'm an ex-premie but more spiritually inclined than ever. I'm really interested in connecting with others in positive ways.

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Date: Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 13:42:15 (GMT)
From: bill
Email: None
To: Bobby
Subject: 'buddhist I am'?
Message:
Maybe you should write that as....'buddhist I choose to picture myself' or perhaps just recognise the identity beyond any religious affiliation. Buddha did after all have a bad perception of a womans place in this universe and her chances for growth. No need to hang your hat on his rack.

Kindly elaborate on what exactly you do with your tongue and what happens during a normal practise time of doing that.

Please let me know if pot is a part of any practice. I myself will smoke some a couple times a year and damn if I dont get trippy about things. I have to watch it!

Of course breath meditations can have religious connotations, unfortunate as it can turn out, You know, a lot of folks try so many things and also I read many old politicians past writings and they have so much to say about 'achieveing great things'
but it occurs to me that having successful rich loving relationships with the folks around me would constitute 'achieving great things' enough. AND, it is a damn big challenge! But, it is what I bring to the party and that is all in my control, (with of course the permission of murphy's law ie the devil!).

By the way, Jim, would be a help in any break from tyranny in any age, includeing this one. But I know you two have miles of history so I am not reccomending anything!

Once again, glad your well.

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Date: Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 22:18:57 (GMT)
From: Bobby
Email: bobby2@mindspring.com
To: bill
Subject: 'buddhist I am'?
Message:
Bill, could you email me please?
I want to reply to you but would prefer to respond to some of this privately.
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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 01:31:55 (GMT)
From: bill
Email: None
To: Bobby
Subject: 'buddhist I am'?
Message:
Hi there Bobby, I am at
bburke@rocketmail.com

If there is any delay, I am not a daily email checker.
Although I will try to improve on that now.

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Date: Tues, Jul 04, 2000 at 19:56:02 (GMT)
From: gErRy
Email: None
To: Bobby
Subject: Ketchup and mustard
Message:
Sorry, couldn't resist.

So what is the point of this 'authentic and high' spiritual technique? Does it help you love your wife and kids more? Does it help you understand and love your neighbor?

What? I'm really curious.

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Date: Tues, Jul 04, 2000 at 20:26:14 (GMT)
From: Fairplay
Email: None
To: gErRy
Subject: Quite an emission Sir Dave
Message:
Dear Sir Dave,

Actually Gerry it does!

Fairplay

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Date: Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 17:27:17 (GMT)
From: Hal
Email: None
To: Fairplay
Subject: Quite an emission Sir Dave
Message:
ERRR Excuse me but would you be BJORN by any chance?
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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 06:18:11 (GMT)
From: Not Bjorn
Email: None
To: Hal
Subject: Quite an emission Sir Dave
Message:
Dear Hal,

No I'm not Bjorn. Just like what's my line eh?

How's Portugal these days?

Not Bjorn

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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 12:11:52 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Not Bjorn
Subject: Why should anyone talk to this Fairplay guy?
Message:
By my accounts, he has still yet to answer a single direct question about who he is, etc. Yet he pops up and demands, quite stupidly, by the way, that people do various things (i.e. Susan report her story in just such a way again to just these people, not those).

WHO ARE YOU, FAIRPLAY?

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Date: Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 00:22:00 (GMT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: Fairplay
Subject: Quite an emission Sir Dave
Message:
Uh? I've not had an orgasm yet this week but I'm on a promise. And talking about sex and the old nectar technique, yes they can be done simultaneously although French kissing is out.
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Date: Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 16:24:08 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: Sex, nectar AND French kiss with improved 4th T!
Message:
No need to stick your tongue back there, and you'll be able to practice sex, nectar AND French kiss!!!

I've tried, it works, thank you maharaji!!

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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 01:16:17 (GMT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Maharaji saves the day again!
Message:
and produces yet a new variation of the 4th technique,

Put your tongue in your partner's mouth for 15 minutes.

This is also called the French technique of Kissheri Madlydra.

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Date: Tues, Jul 04, 2000 at 20:20:25 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: gErRy
Subject: ... and not forgetting the Heinz 57
Message:
Ger, don't forget that, as far as helping the world to love its wife and kids more, if you've got your tongue stuck up your nasal passage, well, all you've got left is to give them a piece of your mind.

Don't forget now - duck and cover!

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Date: Tues, Jul 04, 2000 at 21:09:53 (GMT)
From: gErRy
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: You forgot sign language, Chris...
Message:
When yer playing footsie with your ulvula, you could still give'em the bird.

Maybe there's something to that deepthroat stuff we're missin'...

Hey, Fairplaywithyerself, how 'bout fillin' us in ???

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Date: Tues, Jul 04, 2000 at 20:30:25 (GMT)
From: FAirplay
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: Only roof of mouth these days
Message:
Dear cq,

I'm taking a day off work to get you guy's facts straight. You guy's are a bit behind so here's an update.

Now M is showing the tecniques via video ( so he no longer has to travel anywhere to give knowledge) - he shows himself turning back he's holy tongue just to the roof of his holy mouth.

So there you go,

It's a lot easier - no snot - why don't you try it?

Fairplay

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Date: Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 03:07:09 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: fitzroy@liverpool.ac.uk
To: FAirplay
Subject: A nectar more perfect than heretofore..?
Message:
You mean, M has devised a new and better way to do the nectar technique that won't pollute your divine experience with nasal drip?

After all these centuries, all these former living incarnations using the earlier prescription? (REALLY? I mean, WOW!! - he can do THAT?) That suggests he can think and be creative, after all. Wow! What would his old dad say? Shades of omnipotence..?

Forget the wristwatch - new variant nectar is what your master should patent RIGHT NOW before it becomes common knowledge.

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Date: Tues, Jul 04, 2000 at 21:31:07 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: FAirplay
Subject: Dear Fairplay
Message:
Have you ever posted here under anothe name? If so, what name?

I'm taking a day off work to get you guy's facts straight. You guy's are a bit behind so here's an update.

Oh thank you for your great mercy. We are forever in your debt.

Now M is showing the tecniques via video ( so he no longer has to travel anywhere to give knowledge)

NO shit, really? Gosh I didn't know THAT.

- he shows himself turning back he's holy tongue just to the roof of his holy mouth.
So there you go,

Really ??? Another amazing revelation !!!

It's a lot easier - no snot - why don't you try it?

Fairplay

Why don't you go fuck yourself?

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