Forum V: Archive
Compiled: Mon, Jul 24, 2000 at 09:20:21 (GMT)
From: Jul 13, 2000 To: Jul 22, 2000 Page: 2 Of: 5


Beverley Eyre -:- old premies? -:- Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 22:31:15 (GMT)
__ Joe -:- old premies? -:- Wed, Jul 19, 2000 at 06:15:17 (GMT)
__ __ buzz -:- old premies? -:- Thurs, Jul 20, 2000 at 16:42:48 (GMT)
__ __ Jean-Michel -:- Mahavir still around also -:- Wed, Jul 19, 2000 at 10:15:41 (GMT)
__ sam -:- old premies? -:- Wed, Jul 19, 2000 at 05:11:40 (GMT)
__ jondon -:- M's Valet was named..... -:- Wed, Jul 19, 2000 at 04:36:30 (GMT)
__ __ Me -:- M's Valet = Patrick McCracken (nt) -:- Wed, Jul 19, 2000 at 06:04:40 (GMT)
__ Ron -:- old premies? -:- Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 23:58:55 (GMT)
__ Susan -:- hey, I knew you! -:- Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 23:52:18 (GMT)
__ __ G -:- I Was a Teenage Premie -:- Wed, Jul 19, 2000 at 00:58:29 (GMT)
__ __ __ 49 -:- I Was a Teenage Premie -:- Wed, Jul 19, 2000 at 01:56:26 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ G -:- Do you want to be in the film? -:- Wed, Jul 19, 2000 at 02:07:26 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ 49 -:- Do you want to be in the film? -:- Wed, Jul 19, 2000 at 02:24:23 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ G -:- Sorry, no swimming pool -:- Thurs, Jul 20, 2000 at 01:26:27 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ 49 -:- N time for swimming -:- Thurs, Jul 20, 2000 at 13:31:48 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ G -:- You don't get it -:- Fri, Jul 21, 2000 at 03:48:03 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ 49 -:- I got something different -:- Fri, Jul 21, 2000 at 09:52:42 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Joe -:- Question -:- Thurs, Jul 20, 2000 at 18:30:41 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ 49 -:- Answer -:- Fri, Jul 21, 2000 at 03:54:54 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Joe -:- 49, don't be dishonest...it looks real bad.. -:- Fri, Jul 21, 2000 at 17:32:12 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Housefather -:- You Must Surrender -:- Wed, Jul 19, 2000 at 06:11:20 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ 49 -:- Yes please! -:- Wed, Jul 19, 2000 at 14:49:52 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Housefather -:- You got it. -:- Wed, Jul 19, 2000 at 17:40:11 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ 49 -:- Disappointed -:- Thurs, Jul 20, 2000 at 13:24:32 (GMT)

hamzen -:- 'The Brain Story' -:- Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 21:19:45 (GMT)
__ Robyn -:- 'The Brain Story' -:- Thurs, Jul 20, 2000 at 12:13:10 (GMT)
__ __ ham -:- 'The Brain Story' -:- Fri, Jul 21, 2000 at 02:34:05 (GMT)
__ Joe -:- Did you See 'Finest Hour' on PBS? (ot) -:- Wed, Jul 19, 2000 at 00:11:05 (GMT)
__ __ ham -:- Did you See 'Finest Hour' on PBS? (ot) -:- Fri, Jul 21, 2000 at 02:21:05 (GMT)
__ __ __ Joe -:- Sorry ham... -:- Fri, Jul 21, 2000 at 20:20:54 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ ham -:- Luv ya!!! (nt) -:- Fri, Jul 21, 2000 at 22:04:06 (GMT)

cq -:- The 'gift-giver' HAS lied - again -:- Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 18:18:19 (GMT)
__ Shroomananda -:- Even if you feel the gift-giver has lied -again- -:- Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 19:03:06 (GMT)
__ __ cq -:- and a spade is a spade -:- Wed, Jul 19, 2000 at 17:18:53 (GMT)
__ __ Jethro -:- Even if you feel the gift-giver has lied -again- -:- Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 22:23:32 (GMT)
__ __ __ Shroomananda -:- It takes a fool to know one! At least I can spell! -:- Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 22:29:38 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Jethro -:- you are correct I am a fool -:- Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 22:51:36 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Shroomananda -:- Pudridity? What dictionary did you get that from? -:- Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 23:01:53 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ A.P. -:- Being a premie-fool -:- Wed, Jul 19, 2000 at 13:00:09 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ VP -:- Good point, A.P-nt -:- Thurs, Jul 20, 2000 at 03:37:13 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ SB -:- Where do you shop for ideas? -:- Wed, Jul 19, 2000 at 05:38:14 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Jethro -:- Chambers 20th century page 1050 -:- Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 23:14:34 (GMT)
__ __ hamzen -:- Ha ha ha, you're the best one ever to visit for -:- Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 21:50:39 (GMT)
__ __ Jerry -:- Even if you feel the gift-giver has lied -again- -:- Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 19:44:54 (GMT)
__ __ __ Shroomananda -:- I'm not ashamed of anything, are you? -:- Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 19:51:52 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Jerry -:- I'm not ashamed of anything, are you? -:- Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 20:11:15 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Shroomananda -:- Yeah, I'm sure. No snicker. NT -:- Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 20:31:43 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Jerry -:- Yeah, I'm sure. No snicker. NT -:- Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 21:00:03 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Shroomananda -:- Listen, Jerry, I don't know about Perfect Masters -:- Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 21:07:35 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ A.P. -:- Listen, Jerry, I don't know about Perfect Masters -:- Wed, Jul 19, 2000 at 13:06:24 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ SB -:- Maharaji has ARTI, dummy, simple. -:- Wed, Jul 19, 2000 at 03:49:35 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Stonor -:- A cheap high in a third world country? -:- Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 23:49:41 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Shroomananda -:- Hashish is pretty cheap there I hear so I don't -:- Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 23:54:03 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Stonor -:- For Americans, no doubt, 'Shroom' -:- Wed, Jul 19, 2000 at 00:02:43 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Lotus eater -:- Indian devotees -:- Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 22:33:21 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ SB -:- LE, when did you left Lard? (nt) -:- Wed, Jul 19, 2000 at 03:51:26 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Lotus Eater -:- LE, when did you left Lard? reply... -:- Wed, Jul 19, 2000 at 23:10:15 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ SB -:- LE, when did you left Lard? reply... -:- Thurs, Jul 20, 2000 at 22:18:04 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ JohnT -:- LE left Lard. Respect! (nt) -:- Thurs, Jul 20, 2000 at 13:26:48 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jethro -:- Indian devotees -:- Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 22:54:25 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Shroomananda -:- Whose Satpal? And how do you know he's more -:- Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 23:06:07 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jethro -:- Satpal is prempal's eldest brother.... -:- Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 23:23:31 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Shroomananda -:- A victim of a bhakti cult?? Is that how you see -:- Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 22:50:41 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ hamzen -:- Jesus, porky's way down in the guru popularity -:- Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 23:35:28 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Shroomananda -:- After reading your post, I realized that you are -:- Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 23:44:30 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ hamzen -:- Since you asked -:- Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 23:56:36 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Shroomananda -:- Hmmm. Devotion is a thought/language process... -:- Wed, Jul 19, 2000 at 00:09:11 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ hamzen -:- Typically shallow premie response -:- Wed, Jul 19, 2000 at 00:38:35 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Stonor -:- Ever heard of 'God', Shroo? (nt) -:- Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 23:53:16 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Shroomananda -:- Yeah, I've heard of God. Have you? What did He -:- Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 23:59:45 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Stonor -:- It's all about excitement for you isn't it? (nt) -:- Wed, Jul 19, 2000 at 00:03:49 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Shroomananda -:- Actually, no, it's all about realization which I -:- Wed, Jul 19, 2000 at 00:17:23 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Stonor -:- Let me introduce myself, -:- Wed, Jul 19, 2000 at 00:20:04 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Shroomananda -:- You're a non-anything AND an ex-premie? -:- Wed, Jul 19, 2000 at 00:26:35 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ good one -:- You're a non-anything AND an ex-premie? -:- Wed, Jul 19, 2000 at 01:49:48 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Stonor -:- Can't imagine anyone else posting here? ROFL (nt) -:- Wed, Jul 19, 2000 at 00:31:38 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Stonor -:- Or not. 'Master' optional, cause it's 'God' or not -:- Wed, Jul 19, 2000 at 00:22:08 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Lotus Eater -:- A victim of a bogstandard bhakti cult -:- Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 23:18:02 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Shroomananda -:- I have a thick skin so insult me or Maharaji all -:- Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 23:40:27 (GMT)
__ __ Way -:- Good Heavens, Shroom -:- Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 19:26:44 (GMT)
__ __ __ Shroomananda -:- Good Heaven on earth, Way -:- Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 19:37:25 (GMT)
__ Way -:- To Chris -:- Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 18:59:26 (GMT)

Way -:- To the premies here: the lies of your Master -:- Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 15:26:32 (GMT)
__ Han -:- Full moon,, or just a bad day, Way? -:- Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 23:08:40 (GMT)
__ __ Jerry -:- Full moon,, or just a bad day, Way? -:- Thurs, Jul 20, 2000 at 02:22:18 (GMT)
__ __ Way -:- Re:Full moon, or just a bad day, Way? -:- Wed, Jul 19, 2000 at 14:54:14 (GMT)
__ Shroomananda -:- That's supposed to convince me? -:- Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 17:06:17 (GMT)
__ Elaine -:- To the premies here: the lies of your Master -:- Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 15:50:06 (GMT)
__ __ P-man -:- To the premies here: the lies of your Master -:- Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 19:18:02 (GMT)
__ __ __ Elaine -:- To the premies here: the lies of your Master -:- Wed, Jul 19, 2000 at 00:29:13 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ P-man -:- To the premies here: the lies of your Master -:- Wed, Jul 19, 2000 at 05:40:44 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ SB -:- Another one, Elaine? -:- Wed, Jul 19, 2000 at 01:56:56 (GMT)
__ __ Shroomananda -:- There are people in over 80 countries experiencing -:- Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 17:09:39 (GMT)
__ __ __ Elaine -:- There are people in over 80 countries experiencing -:- Wed, Jul 19, 2000 at 00:31:24 (GMT)
__ __ __ P-man -:- There are people in over 80 countries experiencing -:- Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 20:11:21 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Han -:- A different perspective,,, -:- Wed, Jul 19, 2000 at 02:31:18 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Shroomananda -:- I know there is at least one person--Me! -:- Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 20:38:22 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ SB -:- Such a shallow and selfish statement!! -:- Wed, Jul 19, 2000 at 05:12:56 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Shroomananda -:- I have the best professional help--Maharaji! nt -:- Wed, Jul 19, 2000 at 05:28:07 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Why Maharaji's no professional -:- Wed, Jul 19, 2000 at 15:39:09 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ P-man -:- I know there is at least one person--Me! -:- Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 20:51:02 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Shroomananda -:- He has radically changed civilization! -:- Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 21:00:33 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ P-man -:- He has radically changed civilization! -:- Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 22:06:24 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Shroomananda -:- Yeah, I love fat hamsters, they're so adorable! -:- Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 22:16:55 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Super Arti -:- Is because maharaji is a GOOD con, a good liar -:- Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 23:49:29 (GMT)
__ __ __ Hal -:- You belive anything Shroo-- Brainwashed one nt -:- Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 18:15:27 (GMT)
__ __ __ Jean-Michel -:- Did you ever wonder how many EXACTLY? -:- Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 17:44:53 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Shroomananda -:- Even if only one person on the planet is -:- Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 18:00:43 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ G -:- He meant FAR more than that -:- Wed, Jul 19, 2000 at 01:48:09 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Shroomananda -:- No Sale, G, he also said that if he asked you to -:- Wed, Jul 19, 2000 at 02:43:01 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ G -:- cut your head for Guru Maharaj Ji -:- Thurs, Jul 20, 2000 at 00:58:05 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Shroomananda -:- Good post! It's not the words, as he has said -:- Thurs, Jul 20, 2000 at 01:22:48 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ G -:- It's not his gift -:- Thurs, Jul 20, 2000 at 01:50:05 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Shroomananda -:- Well, at least you feel peace. To me, that's the -:- Thurs, Jul 20, 2000 at 02:06:29 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Way -:- To Shroomananda -:- Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 18:48:09 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Shroomananda -:- Thanks but I already have several copies of Who Is -:- Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 19:22:36 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Michael -:- Thanks but I already have several copies of Who Is -:- Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 22:55:40 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Shroomananda -:- He gave me a gift that I liked and I also like -:- Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 23:26:53 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ SB -:- He gave me a gift that I liked and I also like -:- Wed, Jul 19, 2000 at 00:19:13 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Michael -:- Even if only one person on the planet is -:- Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 18:25:52 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Stonor -:- Even if only one person on the planet is (OT) -:- Wed, Jul 19, 2000 at 00:16:20 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Shroomananda -:- Thanks but I already have several copies of Who Is -:- Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 19:17:58 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Stonor -:- Aren't you *special*, Shroom!! (nt) -:- Wed, Jul 19, 2000 at 00:18:25 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Hal -:- Oh give us a break-- Start thinking !!!! nt -:- Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 18:17:46 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ cq -:- Twisty way with words, these premies eh, Hal? -:- Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 18:20:59 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ hal -:- Slimy little buggers indeed cq - quite revealing ! -:- Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 18:24:05 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ ham -:- Never trust a junkie! -:- Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 21:58:56 (GMT)
__ __ gerry -:- You've already got the scoop, Elaine. -:- Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 16:15:50 (GMT)
__ __ __ RobertB -:- What do rotting vegies smell like in cyberspace? -:- Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 17:07:20 (GMT)

Jean-Michel -:- Soul Rush (edited version) back online -:- Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 14:19:05 (GMT)
__ jondon -:- Where can I obtain a copy..... -:- Wed, Jul 19, 2000 at 11:51:58 (GMT)
__ __ Monmot -:- Where can I obtain a copy..... -:- Thurs, Jul 20, 2000 at 19:45:38 (GMT)
__ __ Jean-Michel -:- It's available online !!!!! -:- Wed, Jul 19, 2000 at 16:36:16 (GMT)
__ bill -:- thank you JM.....(nt) -:- Wed, Jul 19, 2000 at 04:19:27 (GMT)

sam -:- first class -:- Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 05:27:57 (GMT)
__ Selene -:- sam if you are going to give info -:- Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 05:42:33 (GMT)
__ __ Katie -:- JM and SB know more about First Class... -:- Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 10:17:19 (GMT)
__ __ __ SB -:- JM and SB know more about First Class... -:- Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 12:15:40 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Susan -:- ha ha Lardy.... -:- Wed, Jul 19, 2000 at 00:44:58 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ SB -:- ha ha Lardy.... -:- Wed, Jul 19, 2000 at 05:26:18 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Jean-Michel -:- More about First Class... and some news -:- Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 15:03:20 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- thanks JM SB Katie -:- Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 21:44:37 (GMT)
__ __ __ Salam -:- No cookies , no maharaja -:- Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 11:53:11 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Katie -:- No cookies necessary, but I don't know how -:- Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 15:52:32 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Salam -:- No cookies necessary, but I don't know how -:- Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 17:03:42 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ SB -:- What about that you go in but can't get out? -:- Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 12:17:39 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Salam -:- What about that you go in but can't get out? -:- Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 14:15:44 (GMT)
__ __ Selene -:- now i'm on a roll here -:- Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 06:05:28 (GMT)
__ __ Salam -:- sam if you are going to give info -:- Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 05:48:05 (GMT)

sam -:- challenge -:- Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 04:49:08 (GMT)
__ A Very Active Man -:- challenge -:- Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 11:49:02 (GMT)
__ __ Jerry -:- challenge -:- Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 13:02:53 (GMT)
__ __ __ Macho Man -:- challenge -:- Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 14:19:14 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Jerry -:- challenge -:- Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 14:46:23 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Jerry -:- Oh, Macho Maaaan! -:- Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 19:51:53 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ The Indian Chief -:- Oh, Macho Maaaan! -:- Wed, Jul 19, 2000 at 03:09:18 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jerry -:- Right, Chief -:- Wed, Jul 19, 2000 at 10:26:08 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ The Motorcycle Cop -:- Right, Chief -:- Wed, Jul 19, 2000 at 13:07:47 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jerry -:- Right, Chief -:- Wed, Jul 19, 2000 at 14:37:19 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ The Construction Man -:- Right, Chief -:- Thurs, Jul 20, 2000 at 01:38:37 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jerry -:- Right, Chief -:- Thurs, Jul 20, 2000 at 02:47:43 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ The Fireman -:- Right, Chief -:- Thurs, Jul 20, 2000 at 05:54:48 (GMT)
__ __ SB -:- Premies react to this site this way: I don't go -:- Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 12:31:30 (GMT)
__ __ __ The Cisco Kid -:- Premies react to this site this way: I don't go -:- Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 14:21:38 (GMT)
__ Felisnavidad -:- challenger -:- Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 09:26:32 (GMT)
__ __ SB -:- FA: Is this person Zen? (nt) -:- Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 12:23:02 (GMT)
__ __ __ Hal -:- SB some creep posted as me to you down below! -:- Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 19:01:47 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ SB -:- As tall as I can be, by my grace. -:- Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 20:20:54 (GMT)
__ __ __ Zen -:- Not -:- Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 16:36:48 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ SB -:- That is exactly why I blocked you. Names you used -:- Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 20:23:14 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Zen -:- I am not 'felisnavidad' (nt) -:- Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 16:39:29 (GMT)


Date: Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 22:31:15 (GMT)
From: Beverley Eyre
Email: fbe2@ucla.edu
To: Everyone
Subject: old premies?
Message:
Are there still premies around from the early to mid 70's? Besides Marylon I mean? What about that guy who was MJ's valet, who's name I forget? What about normal premies? What about ex-mahatma's?

Bev

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Date: Wed, Jul 19, 2000 at 06:15:17 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Beverley Eyre
Subject: old premies?
Message:
The vast majority of people who received knowledge up to the mid-70s are no longer practicing premies. What they think about Maharaji and the whole trip is anyone's guess.

'Normal premie' is an oxymoron. There is no such animal.

I think charanand and padarthanand are the only 'mahatmas' who are still around. The others either split with Mata Ji, split otherwise, or are back in India following either Maharaji or his brother, the former Bal Bhagwan Ji, who is also a 'master' and is peddling the very same 'knowledge' that Maharaji is. It's a family business, after all.

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Date: Thurs, Jul 20, 2000 at 16:42:48 (GMT)
From: buzz
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: old premies?
Message:
i became a premie in 72 never got into the inner circle never wanted too.been into kriya yoga also must admit i really get off on the k.always have ,by the way holy name was never really shown properly .it makes hell of a differance.i wonder about all the premies there used to be,loads more to say but that should do for now.
regards to all .
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Date: Wed, Jul 19, 2000 at 10:15:41 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Mahavir still around also
Message:
and touring in France these days ...
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Date: Wed, Jul 19, 2000 at 05:11:40 (GMT)
From: sam
Email: -
To: Beverley Eyre
Subject: old premies?
Message:
Derek Harper is still around and an instructor- he'd be about mid '70s.There's a few I know but they are, in the main, fairly isolated from the real world and also keep their doubts quiet if they had them. One told me he doubted and was very anti (never said anything at the time. Finally got back his 'faith' so then told me about it
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Date: Wed, Jul 19, 2000 at 04:36:30 (GMT)
From: jondon
Email: None
To: Beverley Eyre
Subject: M's Valet was named.....
Message:
Patrick, I believe. Sort of a Wayland Smithers type of character, always picking up after M(onty Burns). At least that is the name of the valet about 5 years ago, I believe he is still with the operation.
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Date: Wed, Jul 19, 2000 at 06:04:40 (GMT)
From: Me
Email: None
To: jondon
Subject: M's Valet = Patrick McCracken (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 23:58:55 (GMT)
From: Ron
Email: Zappahawks@excite.com
To: Beverley Eyre
Subject: old premies?
Message:
I was into Maharaji in the 70's - and I can't believe he's still at it! I never gave money or anything, but I did believe he was THE PERFECT MASTER back then- and I persuaded quite a few people to recieve Knowledge! I don't regret the experience, But the people who thought I was crazy back then were probably right!!!!
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Date: Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 23:52:18 (GMT)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: Beverley Eyre
Subject: hey, I knew you!
Message:
But I do not remember much. Could we have been in the Ashram in South Miami together? A big white house with a pool....all ashrams should have pools you know.

I was a teenage premie ( sounds like a bad movie, and that was about what it was like! ) I had long blonde hair. I know I knew you. Tell me about yourself so I might remember.

My name then was Susan Green.

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Date: Wed, Jul 19, 2000 at 00:58:29 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: Susan
Subject: I Was a Teenage Premie
Message:
Making a movie called 'I Was a Teenage Premie'
and releasing it on the internet would be great.
Just the title would get people curious.
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Date: Wed, Jul 19, 2000 at 01:56:26 (GMT)
From: 49
Email: None
To: G
Subject: I Was a Teenage Premie
Message:
I was in the ashram from 72 til 76.
I had a great time and I still practice every day.
49
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Date: Wed, Jul 19, 2000 at 02:07:26 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: 49
Subject: Do you want to be in the film?
Message:
You can have a role as an ashram premie. We'll rent a house and have 20 people live there while filming. There will be the same conditions as back then. Hey, with shows like '1900 House' and 'Survivor' in vogue, this could be a hit.
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Date: Wed, Jul 19, 2000 at 02:24:23 (GMT)
From: 49
Email: None
To: G
Subject: Do you want to be in the film?
Message:
If that means spending a few months in a big white house with a swimming pool in South Miami, I could be interested.
Will there be someone to cook and clean?
49
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Date: Thurs, Jul 20, 2000 at 01:26:27 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: 49
Subject: Sorry, no swimming pool
Message:
Sorry, no swimming pool, we would recreate the real conditions of the ashram, not some fantasy. The house would be far too small for the number of inmates, I mean 'residents'. Civil ordinances and the lease agreement would be broken by the number of 'residents' living there.

You would sleep on a cheap mat on the floor in the basement. If you're lucky, you'll get half a drawer of a cheap dresser to store your holey undies etc., and I'm not talking holes for your legs. You'll have half a small closet for your worn out cheap garments and one pair of vinyl shoes.

In terms of exercise, the main exercise you'll get is walking a long distance to the bus stop so you can go to work, since you won't have a car. Like Housefather said, your paycheck goes to him, you get $2 a week allowance, the Guru gets around 5-10%, he wants more watches and silk clothes for him and his family. He wants silk on his cute blond wife that he's having sex with while you're celibate by his order (the pretentious word was 'agya' as you remember).

Only a few months? You wouldn't want it longer than that would you? How come you didn't say in the ashram to the bitter end? Were you fed up?

Instead of Miami, how about Chicago? Remember, no down jacket, that's too expensive.

As for living with 'brothers', forget it, you're not getting any clandestine sex, in fact, you'll hardly have any sex with yourself, due to the lack of privacy. Remember, you'll be sharing a bedroom with several 'sisters', one who snores loudly. You'll be living with a lot of 'sisters' that you would never choose to live with by your own free will.

As for cooking and cleaning, this won't be any free ride for you. You'll have plenty of housework to do, you're not going to be a honcho or mahatma.

Do you still want to be in the film?


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Date: Thurs, Jul 20, 2000 at 13:31:48 (GMT)
From: 49
Email: None
To: G
Subject: N time for swimming
Message:
G responded:
Sorry, no swimming pool, we would recreate the real conditions of the ashram, not some fantasy. The house would be far too small for the number of inmates, I mean 'residents'. Civil ordinances and the lease agreement would be broken by the number of 'residents' living there.

-- Not in the ashrams in my city.

You would sleep on a cheap mat on the floor in the basement. If you're lucky, you'll get half a drawer of a cheap dresser to store your holey undies etc., and I'm not talking holes for your legs. You'll have half a small closet for your worn out cheap garments and one pair of vinyl shoes.

----Not in my ashram.

In terms of exercise, the main exercise you'll get is walking a long distance to the bus stop so you can go to work, since you won't have a car.

----So what.

Like Housefather said, your paycheck goes to him, you get $2 a week allowance, the Guru gets around 5-10%, he wants more watches and silk clothes for him and his family. He wants silk on his cute blond wife that he's having sex with while you're celibate by his order (the pretentious word was 'agya' as you remember).

---It was always my choice to join the ashram and I was free to leave, others did.

Only a few months? You wouldn't want it longer than that would you? How come you didn't say in the ashram to the bitter end? Were you fed up?

----I was there for four years until they closed. I enjoyed being in, I enjoyed being out.

Instead of Miami, how about Chicago? Remember, no down jacket, that's too expensive.

---People do live in Chicago, you know.

As for living with 'brothers', forget it, you're not getting any clandestine sex, in fact, you'll hardly have any sex with yourself, due to the lack of privacy. Remember, you'll be sharing a bedroom with several 'sisters', one who snores loudly. You'll be living with a lot of 'sisters' that you would never choose to live with by your own free will.

---Not in my ashram. I used to mastubate in the shower. Still do.
As for cooking and cleaning, this won't be any free ride for you. You'll have plenty of housework to do, you're not going to be a honcho or mahatma.

----Someone in my ashram became an instructor.

Do you still want to be in the film?

Not in your film.

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Date: Fri, Jul 21, 2000 at 03:48:03 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: 49
Subject: You don't get it
Message:
I was describing what it was like when I was in the ashram.
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Date: Fri, Jul 21, 2000 at 09:52:42 (GMT)
From: 49
Email: None
To: G
Subject: I got something different
Message:
I enjoyed it all and still do.
You should have left or tried to make it better.
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Date: Thurs, Jul 20, 2000 at 18:30:41 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: 49
Subject: Question
Message:
Sounds like you had a good time in the ashram. Do you think it was true that many people didn't have a good time? Why there are others, upon discovering that Maharaji was no longer God, feel they wasted time devoting their lives to him in an ashram? Have you ever considered that, or do you just care whether you, personally, had a good time?

You say people were free to leave the ashram. Did you attend any of the ashram meetings when Maharaji said otherwise?

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Date: Fri, Jul 21, 2000 at 03:54:54 (GMT)
From: 49
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Answer
Message:
Sounds like you had a good time in the ashram.

--I did

Do you think it was true that many people didn't have a good time?

--Not really? Most of the people I became friends with in the ashram enjoyed themselves and are still involved one way or another.

Why there are others, upon discovering that Maharaji was no longer God, feel they wasted time devoting their lives to him in an ashram?

--They shouldn't have believed he was God in the first place.
They had unreal expectations and were naturally disappointed.

Have you ever considered that, or do you just care whether you, personally, had a good time?

-- Knowledge isn't for everyone. It has been given to hundred of thousands of people after they asked for it. Many didn't think it worth the effort and many did.
I think it is worth the effort .

You say people were free to leave the ashram. Did you attend any of the ashram meetings when Maharaji said otherwise?

--I didn't attend any meetings where Maharaji or anyone claiming to speak on his behalf said you couldn't leave the ashram.
In fact we had couples leave to get married and get married in the ashram garden.

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Date: Fri, Jul 21, 2000 at 17:32:12 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: 49
Subject: 49, don't be dishonest...it looks real bad..
Message:
Well, if you claim that Maharaji never claimed to be God, then you apparently weren't around, or you have really faulty memory, or you are just as revisi.

Besides saying he was guru and 'greater than god' he also, personally, added the words to Arti in which he said he was 'the superior power in person.' He also repeatedly compared himself to Jesus Christ and Krishna, and claimed they both revealed the same 'knowledge.' We worshipped him and kissed his feet. Nearly all the premies I knew, truly believed he was the messiah. I frankly can't believe you missed that, and I rather think you are engaging in selective memory.

Maybe you and your friends had a good time in the ashram, but there were many others who didn't. The only reason I stayed in the ashram, which I hated for the most part, was because I believed Maharaji was god, the messiah, and therefore I tended to believe him when he said, over and over and over, that the purpose of my existence was to devote my life to him. Since he portrayed himself as god, I tended to have faith in him and believe him.

I attended ashram meetings with Maharaji when he said that to move out of the ashram was a terrible mistake. In 1980, in the ashram meeting in Miami, he said moving out of the ashram was akin to 'moving into a cesspool.' He also said that when he saw an initiator application that said someone had moved out of the ashram it made him so angry he threw it at the wall.

Now really, 49, do you expect me to believe that a 'devotee' upon hearing that, and also hearing Maharaji's repeated statements that we were to 'surrender our lives' to him, that it was okay to move out of the ashram? Please.

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Date: Wed, Jul 19, 2000 at 06:11:20 (GMT)
From: Housefather
Email: None
To: 49
Subject: You Must Surrender
Message:
In the ashram, you must get a job and turn over all your money to me, and I will give you an allowance of $2 per week. I will send part of your income to Elan Vital and the other part to Maharaji himself who might use it and other donations to buy a Rolls Royce or add to his extensive watch collection.

You will have to wear underwear with holes, you must be vegetarian, be celibate, and do everything I say. At any moment you can be required to relocate to another ashram anywhere some Elan Vital bureaucrat wants to send you. On occasion, we will all attend ashram meetings at which Maharaji will tell us what minuscule ingrates we all are and that if we move out we are terrible devotees and generally scare the shit out of us about ever leaving. After staying there for years and pursuing no worldly endeavor whatsoever, Maharaji can at any point and at his whim close the ashrams down and you will have to fend for yourself, taking ashram debt with you.

Doesn't that sound like a real good time?

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Date: Wed, Jul 19, 2000 at 14:49:52 (GMT)
From: 49
Email: None
To: Housefather
Subject: Yes please!
Message:
In the ashram, you must get a job and turn over all your money to me, and I will give you an allowance of $2 per week.

--That's OK as long as the rent gets paid, there's three square meals and I don't have to worry about anything.

I will send part of your income to Elan Vital and the other part to Maharaji himself who might use it and other donations to buy a Rolls Royce or add to his extensive watch collection.

--No problem.

You will have to wear underwear with holes, you must be vegetarian, be celibate, and do everything I say.

--That's OK about the underwear, you need holes to get your legs in.
And I accept the bit about the vegatarian diet, I'm a bit of a health nut anyway.
I am particularly glad that celibacy is part of the rules, could you imagine living in a house with 10 guys if you're a good looking girl like me.
Could we also eliminate drugs and alchohol? You know what a bunch of 20 year old jocks are like when they're drunk and stoned.

At any moment you can be required to relocate to another ashram anywhere some Elan Vital bureaucrat wants to send you.

--My sister went to Denver, she loved it.

On occasion, we will all attend ashram meetings at which Maharaji will tell us what minuscule ingrates we all are and that if we move out we are terrible devotees and generally scare the shit out of us about ever leaving.

--Ashram premies were always his favourites. When he does the hard love bit, I just imagine he's talking to someone else.

After staying there for years and pursuing no worldly endeavor whatsoever, Maharaji can at any point and at his whim close the ashrams down and you will have to fend for yourself, taking ashram debt with you.

--Do I have to give up my job? Can't I just move into a house with friends and keep working? And if our ashram is in debt, the person I'll come looking for is you, the housefather.

Doesn't that sound like a real good time?

--So far so good.

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Date: Wed, Jul 19, 2000 at 17:40:11 (GMT)
From: Housefather
Email: None
To: 49
Subject: You got it.
Message:
Nice try sister. Really, I guess if you were a total loser and had nothing going on in your life, the ashram might be okay. I mean, you are right, you did get fed. And if you are so ugly no one would have sex with you anyway, I mean what were you giving up by not having it for about 10 years? And who needs an education if you are as dumb as a post, like you? You weren't missing anything by surrendering in Maharaji's ashram for a decade until he dumped you out on your ass. And that watch collection -- I mean, that is a worthy cause for which life-dedication makes a lot of sense.

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Date: Thurs, Jul 20, 2000 at 13:24:32 (GMT)
From: 49
Email: None
To: Housefather
Subject: Disappointed
Message:
Nice try sister. Really, I guess if you were a total loser and had nothing going on in your life, the ashram might be okay. I mean, you are right, you did get fed. And if you are so ugly no one would have sex with you anyway, I mean what were you giving up by not having it for about 10 years? And who needs an education if you are as dumb as a post, like you?

--Why are you being mean to me? I trusted you
and now you have turned on me.

You weren't missing anything by surrendering in Maharaji's ashram for a decade until he dumped you out on your ass.

----No. I stayed with my job, rented a house wth some other premies and got married and had kids.

And that watch collection -- I mean, that is a worthy cause for which life-dedication makes a lot of sense.

---- I make more in a month than I made and gave away in 4 years in the ashram.
I liked it and everyone I know who was in the ashram liked it too.
Bye bye housefather, your unnecessary rudeness says volumes about you.

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Date: Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 21:19:45 (GMT)
From: hamzen
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: 'The Brain Story'
Message:
Anyone in the UK see the first episode of what will be a major series on the brain on BBC2?

What a fascinating introduction, even in this first programme I learnt some new stuff, but what is going to be especially fascinating is that the biological reality of spiritual experiences is going to be a key part of the series. Already in the first episode it has touched on the temporal lobes and their importance in those type of experiences.

Van Gogh for instance had increasing spiritual experiences as his temporal lobe epilepsy increased, and knowing that his work became more liquid/flowy with increased experiences so that separation between objects that he represented on canvas became more interlinked, fits (I know, bad pun !) beautifully with this information.

Her final comment of the first programme concluded with the old chestnut, even if spiritual experiences are no more than neuronal activity does not make it/them any the less.
Truly the brain is a wondrous thing!

The programme is written and presented by Susan Greenfield, who has been looking in her own research over twenty five years, specifically at the connection points between nerve cells in the brain.
She is also an excellent presenter and you know that the book that comes out of the series is going to be excellent.

I don't know about anyone else, but the timing of this series for me is going to be perfect.

The most amusing thought about all of this is how porky will attempt to explain this all away with his usual intelligence!
If only Ali G could get to interview him, then we would have the funniest programme ever.

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Date: Thurs, Jul 20, 2000 at 12:13:10 (GMT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: hamzen
Subject: 'The Brain Story'
Message:
Well good morning hammy, :)
I guess the forum needed archiving yesterday 'cause I couldn't reply. This program sounds so good, sorry I can't see it, only have a vcr now, no tv reception. I wonder if something like this would be available on tape in the US some day as I think you have different formatt for tapes. Would at least be very interested in what is in the show about spiritual feelings generated by brain activity. You must know Jerry is into this also.
Hope things are well in your life and that the trains are on schedule. :)
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Fri, Jul 21, 2000 at 02:34:05 (GMT)
From: ham
Email: None
To: Robyn
Subject: 'The Brain Story'
Message:
Alright gorgeous one, still rushing around with your witches broom brushing the dust away? That place sounds huge!

And yes indeed the trains are fine, what is interesting is that I had another of those short calls I'm famed for! tonight and didn't notice one, impressive or what.

Will e-mail soon, but on a bit of a dark one at the moment, found out some stuff from work re social services which is getting appalling to contemplate, not direct physical abuse but subtle psych stuff by higher management, not sure how to deal with. Seems I'm perceived as having an attitude problem and an agenda, and so are all the other good workers in the borough trying to put into practice what we're paid for. The bad faith displayed by the management is so cult like it's frightening, and very sad, our customers are seen as a complete irrelevance by them, can you believe it! AArgh well, business as usual!

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Date: Wed, Jul 19, 2000 at 00:11:05 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: hamzen
Subject: Did you See 'Finest Hour' on PBS? (ot)
Message:
Sorry, this is OT even from your OT post, but I just watched the second of two parts of 'Finest Hour' produced by PBS about the Battle of Britain. I stayed up way past my bedtime to watch it. It was really great, and it made Churchill out to be the savior of Western Civilization.

Some things I didn't know:

Both the American and Canadian governments were so sure the Germans would defeat the British in the Summer of 1940, that they felt that aiding the Brits was a waste of resources. Most of the diplomatic traffic after the fall of France involved Churchill pleading for aid, and the North Americans pleading with Churchill not to negotiate a 'soft peace' and to send the British fleet to North America to avoid the Germans getting it.

The US government, including Roosevelt, thought Churchill was a raving drunk, and couldn't function as a governmental leader. Joe Kennedy, then US Ambassador to Britain, especially thought this. Joe Kennedy's defeatest statements dogged him the rest of his life and he became so discredited after the war that he couldn't run for President in 1948 and decided to promote his sons instead. Both he and the State Department thought Churchill's bravado and confidence in victory came from the bottom of a bottle of scotch.

At the beginning of the battle of Britain, the Luftwaffe outnumbered the RAF over 3 to 1, but within 8 months, the British were manufacturing more planes than the Germans were. Hitler's decision to start bombing British cities instead of the airfields only is considered as much of an error in the war as invading Russia in 1941. While it was awful for London and Coventry, it removed some of the pressure on the RAF and allowed them to further deplete the RAF. In one daytime raid on London, the RAF shot down 175 German planes.

It as only after Churchill destroyed the French Navy in North Africa to keep it from falling into the hands of the Germans that the the U.S. State Department became convinced that the British were going to fight on and not surrender. After that, Roosevelt privately assured Churchill that if he won the election of 1940, he would push through 'Lend Lease' and start protecting the convoys, but thathe had to act like an isolationist until after the election or he would lose the South and the Midwest which he needed to win. Churchill agreed.

After the show was over, they played the movie 'Meet John Britain' which was a war propoganda film written and directed by Frank Capra. Great vintage stuff.

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Date: Fri, Jul 21, 2000 at 02:21:05 (GMT)
From: ham
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Did you See 'Finest Hour' on PBS? (ot)
Message:
Interesting that you felt my post was off topic, for me it couldn't be more on topic.
Without the concept of a seperate source, that is non-material, for any 'experiences', no guru. There must be plenty of premies out there, however much of a minority they are, who have experienced stuff while meditating, and experienced after effects, who have no concepts about what is happening to them in terms of bio-feedback mechanisms and the evolutionary advantages of these 'experiences'. It kept me hanging around for close to a decade and caused me endless problems because the only explanations I had were 'god' or whatever activating my pineal gland. The knowledge that a magnet over my brain could produce these experiences would have completely altered my perspective, big time, and saved me so much grief.

Re the churchill stuff, thought it was all standard knowledge, seriously makes me worried about the american media & education system, especially considering how bright and socially aware you are.

But then I didn't know about roosevelts problems because of this after the war. Maybe the media here was more obsessed about it, because it was closer to home,

re Churchill, even though he is perceived as the hero here, what I always found fascinating was that he was voted out by a landslide in '46 even with this perception. He was a right wing tory, ther major source of hitler appeasers in the 30's, and completely associated with the upper classes.
Churchill was completely appalled at the lack of gratitude shown to him as our saviour!

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Date: Fri, Jul 21, 2000 at 20:20:54 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: ham
Subject: Sorry ham...
Message:
But then I didn't know about roosevelts problems because of this after the war. Maybe the media here was more obsessed about it, because it was closer to home,

Perhaps you didn't know about Roosevelt's 'problems' after the war because he was dead before the war was over. But I guess that's understandable given British education and media. ::))

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Date: Fri, Jul 21, 2000 at 22:04:06 (GMT)
From: ham
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Luv ya!!! (nt)
Message:
a
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Date: Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 18:18:19 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: The 'gift-giver' HAS lied - again
Message:
I'm reposting in its own thread a reply I gave to Shroomananda below. (Why? Because I think it deserves it).

Here's the facts:

Thirty years or so ago Maharaji spent all his efforts trying to convince the world that he was the Messiah.

He approved when we published books, magazines and newspapers with the words 'Lord of the Universe' next to photographs of him.

He had a 'Holy Family'

He gave 'Holy Breath' at 'darshan'

His mahatma Gurucharanand spoke of:

'the Lotus Feet of the Supreme Lord Guru Maharaj Ji.'

'When the Lord assumes human form He performs various lilas (divine actions) which can only be recognized by the faithful devotees ...'

'The supreme Lord knows human weaknesses, therefore He manifests Himself in the form of Satguru to reveal the mystery of His own Divinity and to give to His devotees the opportunity of performing service at His Holy Lotus Feet.'

His mother gave us this:
' The Hans Family is the Light of the world and they are going to show the whole world the path of light.'
Shri Mata Ji, Palam Airport, Delhi, 1971.

and this:
'My son is such a great power that He has come to save the whole universe. But who will believe me? From the age of seven Guru Maharaj Ji has openly proclaimed, 'Come to me and I will give you peace. I have come in this universe to establish peace and tranquility for all time.'

(Shri Mataji, Montreal, May 16, 1972)

His brother said of him:
'He is the Word turned to flesh which raises itself to speak about the glory of the Word. Who else can reveal the Word to us except that flesh which is the Word, or the Word which is turned into flesh?'

His father said things like:
'only He who can bestow God-vision instantaneously within oneself is the Satguru of the time, and no one else. In reality, He is God incarnate'

(Shri Hans Ji Maharaj June, 1961, Prem Nagar, India)

And the final fact:

Is this: that the self-same 'Lord', 'Perfect Master' the one who was the FOCUS OF IT ALL - Maharaji NOW HAS THE GALL TO SAY:

'But I was saying right from the beginning: I'm not a messiah; I'm not a prophet, I'm none of those things.'

and you wonder why we get angry?

Duped and conned we certainly were - and quite how any premie who still respects Maharaji can feel that they're being true to themselves when they read that last quote of his is way beyond my comprehension.

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Date: Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 19:03:06 (GMT)
From: Shroomananda
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: Even if you feel the gift-giver has lied -again-
Message:
(I'm reposting my answer to cq's reply in the new thread because I think it's so important.)

does that negate the feeling of peace that Knowledge brings? You wrote about all these quotes about Maharaji being the Lord and now denying it. Well, many things were said in those days that may have been outlandish but Maharaji said many times that it was up to the individual to decide one way or the other. During a question and answer session following his discourse at Westminster England on November 2, 1971, the 13 year old Maharaji responded to these questions:

Questioner: Somewhere in the magazine, Maharaj Ji, I read that you are the only Supreme Power who can lead one to the Light of God and other gurus aren't important. Now what experience have you had of these other gurus that you can utter these words?

Maharaj Ji: But I never said that. Show me where it is written. Everything I say has a foundation. Yes, the question is, what is the purpose of all other teachers who are on the earth now? and I answer, when there is a tree, beside that tree are many weeds and these weeds are unnecessary. So when the gardener comes he takes them all out. What are they doing there? They are just there. When this tree really grows into something they will abolish these weeds. It will be very powerful. These weeds are unnecessary, they are just wasting one's time. People go to them and it takes five years for them to decide 'No, he is not a true master, let us look for somebody else', and they go to somebody else and they waste their time again, they waste five years unnecessarily. There is no use in this. To waste five years of your time is always unnecessary if there is only one Master. So isn't that true?

Questioner: Yes.

Maharaj Ji: If there is only one Master, everybody can rush to Him. If these weeds were not there, then the Perfect Master would stand out and everybody could go to Him and receive Knowledge without wasting time. But these weeds distract people and they stop people from coming. The trouble is, people are so suspicious nowadays because everything is so artificial.

Questioner: But aren't you saying you are the tree?

Maharaj Ji: No, I don't say I'm the tree.

Questioner: Let me tell you what I think. I may be wrong but I think you are saying to your disciples that you are a tree and there are a lot of weeds around you, and one day you will wipe those weeds out and you will be the Spiritual Master. That's what I think.

Maharaj Ji: That's what you think.

Questioner: That's what I think, but I may be mistaken.

Maharaj Ji: Let me explain. First of all I know this business from beginning to end, because I have been giving all the answers. This happpened in London ashram didn't it? This is our magazine and it has quoted what was said and you can go there and ask the people. Now this man was my disciple when he asked this question, and my answer to him is fact. If I am a weed, then it is still a fact. And if I am a tree, then still what I said is true. But if I say I am a tree and you have realized me, you have asked me for my fruit, you have taken it, you have eaten it, but you have gained nothing, then you will know that I am not the tree. Now you are more intelligent than me in a worldly sense, so you must know what's right and wrong, and you have created the impressiuon in yourself that I am trying to be a tree. But let me say that I never try to be a tree. I am what I said, a humble servant of humanity and that is very clear.

(From Divine Light, Guru Puja Special)

So, CQ, you see a weed and I see a tree. It's up to us individually how we perceive him, isn't it? We're both right!


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Date: Wed, Jul 19, 2000 at 17:18:53 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Shroomananda
Subject: and a spade is a spade
Message:
Just because you like the meditation, that makes everything just hunky-dory with the Maha
and excuses his lies does it, shrew-man?

And if you intend to try and excuse the man's latest lie: ' ... I was saying right from the
beginning: I'm not a messiah'

then, Shrew, in my book, I'm sorry to say that makes you a liar too.

Go one, deceive yourself for all I care. But until you can get honest about this one point, I
don't intend to follow you as you attempt to weasel your way round the garden ...

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Date: Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 22:23:32 (GMT)
From: Jethro
Email: None
To: Shroomananda
Subject: Even if you feel the gift-giver has lied -again-
Message:
You're just like the devotees of saibaba who justify his injterefrence of little bopys by saying it is helping to take away their karma.
You should get together with saibaba devotees, you will find you have alot in common.

Keep on having that nice experience, that's all that matters!!!
Fool

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Date: Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 22:29:38 (GMT)
From: Shroomananda
Email: None
To: Jethro
Subject: It takes a fool to know one! At least I can spell!
Message:
nt
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Date: Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 22:51:36 (GMT)
From: Jethro
Email: None
To: Shroomananda
Subject: you are correct I am a fool
Message:
in that I gave him more that 20 years of my life.

Keep on posting here so that all can see the pudridity of maharjis followers.

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Date: Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 23:01:53 (GMT)
From: Shroomananda
Email: None
To: Jethro
Subject: Pudridity? What dictionary did you get that from?
Message:
At least you are being honest with yourself by calling yourself a fool for giving him 20 years of your life. What took you so long? Personally, I've been listening and practicing for 18 years now and I've never once felt like a fool for doing so. But one man's candy is another man's poison, I guess. Peace, brother!
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Date: Wed, Jul 19, 2000 at 13:00:09 (GMT)
From: A.P.
Email: None
To: Shroomananda
Subject: Being a premie-fool
Message:
Shroomananda,

Do you propagate the knowledge to people you meet? Do you bring people to video/satelite events? How many people have you talked about knowledge with? I find most premies I know never talk about it. I always thought it was because they felt a bit foolish about it. I mean, if the knowledge is so great? why are premies so secretive about it?

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Date: Thurs, Jul 20, 2000 at 03:37:13 (GMT)
From: VP
Email: None
To: A.P.
Subject: Good point, A.P-nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Wed, Jul 19, 2000 at 05:38:14 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: Shroomananda
Subject: Where do you shop for ideas?
Message:
I want to know so I never go there.

Freedom=exes=candy
Prison=premies=poison

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Date: Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 23:14:34 (GMT)
From: Jethro
Email: None
To: Shroomananda
Subject: Chambers 20th century page 1050
Message:
Well you people who 'received knowledge' after the 70 was only by the grace of the premies of the 70s who gave themselves to propogation.

Try giving instead of taking. You just may learn something.
Feeling at peace is only a begining not an ending.

You emulate your master perfectly.
Please keep on posting.

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Date: Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 21:50:39 (GMT)
From: hamzen
Email: None
To: Shroomananda
Subject: Ha ha ha, you're the best one ever to visit for
Message:
laughs. Truly wondrous to behold.


(I'm reposting my answer to cq's reply in the new thread because I think it's so important.)
does that negate the feeling of peace that Knowledge brings?

Why do premies sound like neo-nazis in their arguments sometimes!
What has gm got to do with your experience of k, loads of people from different backgrounds have had those feelings, even followers of the fake guru maharaji from nigeria who knicked his package lock stock and 2 smoking barrels. The techniques are bog standard yoga/hindu teachings. You just happened to get them from him, it could have been satpal, the nigerian gm, or from a book. Any relevance of gm is your projection.
Secondly we know that it didn't and doesn't work for most people, and before you go off, it did work for me.

You wrote about all these quotes about Maharaji being the Lord and now denying it. Well, many things were said in those days that may have been outlandish but Maharaji said many times that it was up to the individual to decide one way or the other. During a question and answer session following his discourse at Westminster England on November 2, 1971, the 13 year old Maharaji responded to these questions:
Questioner: Somewhere in the magazine, Maharaj Ji, I read that you are the only Supreme Power who can lead one to the Light of God and other gurus aren't important. Now what experience have you had of these other gurus that you can utter these words?
Maharaj Ji: But I never said that. Show me where it is written. Everything I say has a foundation. Yes, the question is, what is the purpose of all other teachers who are on the earth now? and I answer, when there is a tree, beside that tree are many weeds and these weeds are unnecessary. So when the gardener comes he takes them all out. What are they doing there? They are just there. When this tree really grows into something they will abolish these weeds. It will be very powerful. These weeds are unnecessary, they are just wasting one's time. People go to them and it takes five years for them to decide 'No, he is not a true master, let us look for somebody else', and they go to somebody else and they waste their time again, they waste five years unnecessarily. There is no use in this. To waste five years of your time is always unnecessary if there is only one Master. So isn't that true?

Who says there is only one master? Yeah, gm, right, like any good salesman he would, and then when that no longer works, 'I never said that', blah de blah! Also please norte the use of 'if' at the end of that quote!

Questioner: Yes.
Maharaj Ji: If there is only one Master, everybody can rush to Him. If these weeds were not there, then the Perfect Master would stand out and everybody could go to Him and receive Knowledge without wasting time. But these weeds distract people and they stop people from coming. The trouble is, people are so suspicious nowadays because everything is so artificial.

So if everything is so artificial, surely the real thing would stand apart because of its naturalness?

So if a lying thieving seller of paints sells them to you and you make a good painting out of them by accident or not you're indebted to the seller for ever even if he is a liar, as cq has just proven to you.

Of course you need your belief system because the experience isn't enough, I reckon even if he was a murderer and a rapist you'd say the same thing! Truly bizarre the workings of the premie mind.

By the way, shroomanananda, as in mushroomananda? Why the need for?

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Date: Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 19:44:54 (GMT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Shroomananda
Subject: Even if you feel the gift-giver has lied -again-
Message:
Shoo,

The only true thing proven by the interview you just posted is that Maharaji talks out of both sides of his mouth.

You say that only the feelings of peace you get is what matters. You're not the first premie to say that, as if the integrity of Maharaji is meaningless, only your nice warm, fuzzy feeling is what counts. You're pathetic. Nice, warm, fuzzy feelings is all junkies care about, too.

I, myself, am completely unimpressed with the experience of Knowledge. It isn't one of God, which was promised. So, as far as I'm concerned, it didn't deliver. Also, Knowledge was supposed to be the ONLY means of realizing God, that ONLY the LIVING perfect master was capable of bringing into a person's life. Tell me you never believed this, and never told others this was true. Christ, tell me you STILL don't believe it. And if you don't believe it, how come? Isn't it good enough for you anymore to think of Maharaji in those terms? What's changed that he can no longer be seen in that light?

What have you become ashamed of?

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Date: Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 19:51:52 (GMT)
From: Shroomananda
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: I'm not ashamed of anything, are you?
Message:
You say that Knowledge didn't give you the experience of God. How do you know? What is the experience of God? Are you expert enough in your human evolution to know what the experience of God is like? Did you give Knowledge a fair chance? And if you did, did you feel peace? And if you felt peace, didn't that come from God? Awaiting your reply.
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Date: Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 20:11:15 (GMT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Shroomananda
Subject: I'm not ashamed of anything, are you?
Message:
You say that Knowledge didn't give you the experience of God. How do you know?

Believe me, Shoo, when a person has an experience of 'God', he knows it. There's no doubt. And that's what Knowledge was supposed to do. It was supposed to have this incredible power of tearing down walls. It was supposed to be the ONLY way someone could know God. Why? Because like M said, there can only be one perfect master on the planet at a time, and he was it. At least, he said so. And only through the living perfect master could a person know God. Come on, you remember all this.

Now, you want to ask me how would I know if I was experiencing God. You make me laugh. What the hell good would K be if it gave an experience of God, but the only problem is that you don't know it? Doesn't that sound dumb to you? If it doesn't, it should. It is. I'll stick by my guns. Knowledge never gave me an experience of God. And you? If so, are you sure (snicker)?

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Date: Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 20:31:43 (GMT)
From: Shroomananda
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: Yeah, I'm sure. No snicker. NT
Message:
NT
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Date: Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 21:00:03 (GMT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Shroomananda
Subject: Yeah, I'm sure. No snicker. NT
Message:
What about all this perfect master stuff? Do you remember when Maharaji said there can only be one on the planet at a time, and only through that one could a person know God? Do you still believe that? And if it's so, how come it's never spoken about anymore?
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Date: Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 21:07:35 (GMT)
From: Shroomananda
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: Listen, Jerry, I don't know about Perfect Masters
Message:
but I do know that Maharaji knows something and he showed me how to access it which I attempt to do and occassionally succeed at. How come in India, the home of the Perfect Master devotees, so many have received Knowledge and continue to do so? He gives Knowledge to ten thousand at a time there! And at the last update event I went to in Marina Del Rey several months ago, one of the speakers there said there were 50,000 aspirants waiting to receive Knowledge. Seems to me that in India, where there are so many Gurus, they would be the first ones to spot a false one. But they just keep on coming, don't they? Any response?
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Date: Wed, Jul 19, 2000 at 13:06:24 (GMT)
From: A.P.
Email: None
To: Shroomananda
Subject: Listen, Jerry, I don't know about Perfect Masters
Message:
You can't be comparing an impoverished over populated place like India to North America can you?

What else do they have to do in India anyway?

They don't have extracaricular (sp?) activities like we do here. I'll bet not even half the population have televisions?

Maybe you should take a trip there and see what you are comparing yourself to.

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Date: Wed, Jul 19, 2000 at 03:49:35 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: Shroomananda
Subject: Maharaji has ARTI, dummy, simple.
Message:
How many gurus say that they are The Supreme Power in Person; Satguru,God incarnated? In India premies still sing it to him. Did you know? The Superior Power in Person. God is a liar then; he says he is not God today but likes it in India, right? Which one is it?
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Date: Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 23:49:41 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: Shroomananda
Subject: A cheap high in a third world country?
Message:
Is this where the 'opium of the masses' comes in?
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Date: Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 23:54:03 (GMT)
From: Shroomananda
Email: None
To: Stonor
Subject: Hashish is pretty cheap there I hear so I don't
Message:
think that explains it. But smoke another 'fatty', Stonor, and maybe you'll come up with something else. Keep trying, you can do it!
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Date: Wed, Jul 19, 2000 at 00:02:43 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: Shroomananda
Subject: For Americans, no doubt, 'Shroom'
Message:
Stonor's in the family name.
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Date: Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 22:33:21 (GMT)
From: Lotus eater
Email: None
To: Shroomananda
Subject: Indian devotees
Message:
I thought I would make a direct response to your question:

Firstly the exact figure.......I don't think you can rely on the accuracy of the figures presented at events. I don't even think the pictures you see are necessarily accurate. I remember watching something where they were playing with an image of an indian festival, you can make that crowd look as big as you like!

Having said that, I think there probably has been a surge of interest in India. This doesn't really surprise me because having a Master/devotee relationship is quite acceptable and established practice there, and this one, though a traditional indian guru, lives in America has a blonde wife, lots of cars and aeroplanes, how exciting!

Interestingly, Mauritius with its large hindu population had a surge of interest a few years back, too.

personally, I am so pissed off at finding that I have been a victim of a bogstandard bhakti cult, that i figure the #@!?*# indians can look after themselves, they probably have been infected with it for so long, they've developed antibodies anyway.

One good point though of my exposure to indian mysticism....I am also innoculated against christian thought as well. LE

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Date: Wed, Jul 19, 2000 at 03:51:26 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: Lotus eater
Subject: LE, when did you left Lard? (nt)
Message:
nt ;)
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Date: Wed, Jul 19, 2000 at 23:10:15 (GMT)
From: Lotus Eater
Email: None
To: SB
Subject: LE, when did you left Lard? reply...
Message:
Dear SB, Are you compiling a register, or just asking personally?
Whichever, my best answer to that is to say the day I first posted on this forum, april is my best guess. I remember saying to my partner that I would like to say that i was an ex premie now and the phone rang.....it was someone ringing to invite us to an event with M at Amaroo the next day (teehee). We went, so that was the day i got to sit at the back, hold onto my marbles and take a look for myself at how he operated. God what a day that was, I would say that I am in recovery mode now, yesterday I found myself remembering how I loved him and started crying, it felt good though, somehow normal. As i said when I first started posting, I put the best of myself into K, I am damn well not going to leave it there. LE
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Date: Thurs, Jul 20, 2000 at 22:18:04 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: Lotus Eater
Subject: LE, when did you left Lard? reply...
Message:
Just asking, curious to know when you left, that's all.

You mean you pratice the techniques, right? Doesn't remind you of him?? You are okay as to make a separation from m and K? That is good! I can't yet, maybe never....I can't practice the techniques;too painful because I relate them to him, still.

I understand why you got sad an cry...I loved him too and he's not real and cry often, a lot! Is like somebodu has died...

Do you mean that at Amaroo you realized all is staged, fake? And since then you left? So you had darshan there...right?

Thanks for answering. Take care,

SB

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Date: Thurs, Jul 20, 2000 at 13:26:48 (GMT)
From: JohnT
Email: None
To: Lotus Eater
Subject: LE left Lard. Respect! (nt)
Message:
Respect.
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Date: Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 22:54:25 (GMT)
From: Jethro
Email: None
To: Lotus eater
Subject: Indian devotees
Message:
Most Indians have several gurus. Also satpal is much more popular than prempal.
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Date: Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 23:06:07 (GMT)
From: Shroomananda
Email: None
To: Jethro
Subject: Whose Satpal? And how do you know he's more
Message:
popular than Maharaji? Maharaji gave Knowledge to over 10,000 aspirants in 2 days the last time he had a Knowledge session in India and since then more than 50,000 aspirants are requesting Knowledge. Satpal is more popular than that? Prove it please.
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Date: Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 23:23:31 (GMT)
From: Jethro
Email: None
To: Shroomananda
Subject: Satpal is prempal's eldest brother....
Message:
ask your older premie brothers and sisters...or did they forget to tell you.

If you want to test his popularity I suggest you ask any Indians you meet over a few months. You will see that only people over 40 remember him(then known as Balyogeshwar in India) and they laugh.
Ther are 1000s of Guru maharajis in India who have massive programs.

One particulat maharaji has a massive swimming pool where he dips his feet in and all the devotees dive in to get charanamerit(if you don't know what this is ask your older brother and sisters).

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Date: Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 22:50:41 (GMT)
From: Shroomananda
Email: None
To: Lotus eater
Subject: A victim of a bhakti cult?? Is that how you see
Message:
yourself? Man, wake up! You chose to become involved, didn't you? Or did someone hold a gun to your head and force you to enter that Knowledge session? I don't think so. Maybe you feel you were scammed by a con-artist but since there never has been a charge for Knowledge, that doesn't apply now does it? You say you are now innoculated from Christian dogma thanks to Knowledge. Since Knowledge didn't do it for you, aren't you now innoculated from Indian mysticism as well? Isn't that a good thing? It seems that all you guys can do is gripe. I still don't get it. And as far as the Indian people are concerned, you still didn't answer me. If the Master/devotee relationship has been firmly established there, how do you account for so many premies and aspirants there? They're excited by a Guru with a blonde wife, lots of cars, aeroplanes, etc. who lives in America? That's your explanation? I don't buy it. If they are that much into the Guru tradition there, then they would be appalled by such a worldly Master, wouldn't they? Try again.
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Date: Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 23:35:28 (GMT)
From: hamzen
Email: None
To: Shroomananda
Subject: Jesus, porky's way down in the guru popularity
Message:
stakes in india, that other con artist sai baba is way bigger.

Also those numbers were happening in the west in the 70's, and what happened to the numbers?
Exactly, they all pissed off or drifted away.

There are also way more neo-nazis than gm across this planet, or krishna people, tmers, scientologists etc, get a fucking life shroom, or better still take some shrooms and give yourself an education.

Oh & most indian followers have more than one guru. Always been the case.

Another one dreaming that phase 2 is about to begin. You're aother sad fucker for sure, who needs his explanatory belief system to sustain his faith, what happened to the 'no concepts' line. Do you realize how much like a christian fundamentalist you sound.

By the way, gm is making it quite plane now with his training seminars that propagation has to be dealt with in a specific way, so your spiritual ego is going against your masters wishes, so you're not even a good devotee!

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Date: Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 23:44:30 (GMT)
From: Shroomananda
Email: None
To: hamzen
Subject: After reading your post, I realized that you are
Message:
probably right. I'm not a good devotee. But I do feel devotion. Quite a concept, huh? You seem like such an expert on devotion. Please teach me about it. How does it work without a Master? I sincerely want to know.
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Date: Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 23:56:36 (GMT)
From: hamzen
Email: None
To: Shroomananda
Subject: Since you asked
Message:
You don't 'feel' devotion, devotion is a thought/language process, conceptual baggage you picked up from porky or before, that limits your experience.
The explanation is not the experience.

You want more?

Oh by the way, I also have videos for sale through my non-profit organization, purely for propagation purposes you understand, oh & some engraved goblets with my coat-of-arms on which will really help you focus on holy name, my orgs called pisson international & feline spiton have lots of other little trinkets that will help you.
Of course, needless to add this is not a religion, and these orgs are completely independent of me, and any rumours that I am the best consultant ever used by IBM, no comment.

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Date: Wed, Jul 19, 2000 at 00:09:11 (GMT)
From: Shroomananda
Email: None
To: hamzen
Subject: Hmmm. Devotion is a thought/language process...
Message:
Let me think about it. Devotion is a thought/language process, devotion is a thought/language process, devotion is a thought/language process, devotion is a thought/language process. Yeah, I see what you mean. That's quite a mantra. I almost experienced it. I prefer the maha-mantra but if I was going to try a verbal one, it might sound something like this: 'Choo-choo train, choo-choo train, choo-choo train, etc.' If you'd like to try it, repeat the mantra a thousand times and then tell me how it worked. Did you get any devotion? Let me know.
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Date: Wed, Jul 19, 2000 at 00:38:35 (GMT)
From: hamzen
Email: None
To: Shroomananda
Subject: Typically shallow premie response
Message:
& like most premies, no sense of humour, or to use your trite little phrase, you'll have to do better than that.

So no concepts around porky at all??

Make my day and surprize me.

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Date: Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 23:53:16 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: Shroomananda
Subject: Ever heard of 'God', Shroo? (nt)
Message:
Ever heard of 'God', Shroo? (nt)
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Date: Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 23:59:45 (GMT)
From: Shroomananda
Email: None
To: Stonor
Subject: Yeah, I've heard of God. Have you? What did He
Message:
have to say? Did He speak English? Did He have something to say about me? Is He even a He? Maybe He's a She! Oh, I'm so excited. Please tell me all about your Knowledge of God. I'm waiting with bated breath. Actually, I should say that I'm waiting with my breath. This is so exciting!
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Date: Wed, Jul 19, 2000 at 00:03:49 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: Shroomananda
Subject: It's all about excitement for you isn't it? (nt)
Message:
It's all about excitement for you isn't it? (nt)
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Date: Wed, Jul 19, 2000 at 00:17:23 (GMT)
From: Shroomananda
Email: None
To: Stonor
Subject: Actually, no, it's all about realization which I
Message:
do get excited about. First the realization, then the excitement. I guess I put the cart before the horse. Sorry. But you still haven't told me about your Knowledge of God. What's that like without a Master? Because I know I sure didn't have God before Knowledge. You said that you have God now after becoming an 'ex'. Tell me about it. Don't be shy. I want to learn.
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Date: Wed, Jul 19, 2000 at 00:20:04 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: Shroomananda
Subject: Let me introduce myself,
Message:
Let me introduce myself, I am a non-anything. 'God' is.
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Date: Wed, Jul 19, 2000 at 00:26:35 (GMT)
From: Shroomananda
Email: None
To: Stonor
Subject: You're a non-anything AND an ex-premie?
Message:
You're either one or the other. Maybe in your mind you can be both. God is? I learned that in kindergarden catechism class. Surely you can do better than that!
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Date: Wed, Jul 19, 2000 at 01:49:48 (GMT)
From: good one
Email: None
To: Shroomananda
Subject: You're a non-anything AND an ex-premie?
Message:
nt
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Date: Wed, Jul 19, 2000 at 00:31:38 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: Shroomananda
Subject: Can't imagine anyone else posting here? ROFL (nt)
Message:
Can't imagine anyone else posting here? ROFL (nt)
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Date: Wed, Jul 19, 2000 at 00:22:08 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: Shroom
Subject: Or not. 'Master' optional, cause it's 'God' or not
Message:
but it still is.
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Date: Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 23:18:02 (GMT)
From: Lotus Eater
Email: None
To: Shroomananda
Subject: A victim of a bogstandard bhakti cult
Message:
Yes I do see it that way. No nobody held a gun to my head. i am pissed off with Mr. Rawatt in person because he presents himself as someone who knows about life, who knows about the effects of meditating on the techniques of knowledge, who knows about the results of following a bhakti cult, ie devoting yourself to a master. According to Mischler, he preferred to drink cognac rather than meditate. That does not surprise me, I have now come to the conclusion that I personally have more understanding about the effects of meditating on the techniques of knowledge than he does....the @#@! Corpulent Unhappy Numbskull Tyrant. Either that or he is more of a bastard than I give him credit for. And yes, I am also, thankfully, innoculated against indian mysticism.
PS sorry for the gratuitous insults to your master, I know they are difficult to read for someone in your position. LE
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Date: Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 23:40:27 (GMT)
From: Shroomananda
Email: None
To: Lotus Eater
Subject: I have a thick skin so insult me or Maharaji all
Message:
you want, but PLEASE don't quote Mischler. After all, he's not around anymore, is he? So we don't know how valid his comments are because we can't ask him to elucidate them, can we? Also, you guys say that you can get Maharaji's Knowledge from many other sources but I have yet to hear anyone who is unbiased that has personally tried another Master's Knowledge and said that it is the same or better than Maharaji's. Has your devotion to God improved since you left Maharaji? Just asking.
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Date: Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 19:26:44 (GMT)
From: Way
Email: None
To: Shroomananda
Subject: Good Heavens, Shroom
Message:
What?!

Are you on OUR side, or what? Don't you know that Mr. Rawat recalled all those 'Divine Light' magazines in the early 1980's and he does not want them around, and certainly not quoted.

Mr. Rawat does not particularly like it when his devotees make fools of themselves on his behalf!!!! If you were really his follower, you would know when to keep your mouth shut, and let him do the talking (or not talking).

p.s. Maharaji also answered the same general line of questioning using another type of vegetation:

Questioner: 'Guru Maharaj Ji, your followers say you are God. Do you say you are God?'

Guru Maharaj Ji: 'A rose is a rose, but doesn't say it is a rose.'

Whatever.

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Date: Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 19:37:25 (GMT)
From: Shroomananda
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: Good Heaven on earth, Way
Message:
Way wrote:

What?!
Are you on OUR side, or what? Don't you know that Mr. Rawat recalled all those 'Divine Light' magazines in the early 1980's and he does not want them around, and certainly not quoted.

Mr. Rawat does not particularly like it when his devotees make fools of themselves on his behalf!!!! If you were really his follower, you would know when to keep your mouth shut, and let him do the talking (or not talking).

p.s. Maharaji also answered the same general line of questioning using another type of vegetation:

Questioner: 'Guru Maharaj Ji, your followers say you are God. Do you say you are God?'

Guru Maharaj Ji: 'A rose is a rose, but doesn't say it is a rose.'

Whatever.


Shroomananda replies: I'm on the side of Truth, wherever I find it. Maharaji never told me to not quote from the magazines. And I quoted his words so I let him do the talking. As far as making a fool of myself, judge not lest you be judged.

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Date: Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 18:59:26 (GMT)
From: Way
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: To Chris
Message:
Excellent job. I'd like to include a copy of that post as an attachment to the letter I am sending out to Elan Vital members.
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Date: Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 15:26:32 (GMT)
From: Way
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: To the premies here: the lies of your Master
Message:
For the Premie posters to this Forum:

In June 1996, Mr. Rawat was interviewed and asked many questions about the early days of his arrival in the West. Portions of that interview are posted at enjoyinglife.org, at the link 'June 17 anniversary' followed by the link 'what is the proof?'.

At one point in the interview, Mr. Rawat responds to a question with the following claim: 'Some people had a concept that I was some kind of messiah or prophet, and that wasn't really acceptable to a lot of people. But I was saying right from the beginning: I'm not a messiah; I'm not a prophet, I'm none of those things.'

Quite contrary to Mr. Rawat's claim in 1996, when he first came to the West, he did in fact make repeated claims to be the present messiah or prophet. Hundreds of quotes to this effect from his own lips are available in print. Here is just one, from Mr. Rawat's speech at Boulder, Colorado, Sept. 17, 1971:

'People who have received Knowledge, my blessings are always with them and they should carry on and build an ashram here where many people can come and receive Knowledge. I am working for that, I am working very fast and I need your constant cooperation. God is cooperating with me from that side but you must cooperate with me from this side, that's why you are made devotees, that's why you are made disciples. What I want is to bring forth the Kingdom of Heaven quickly. And I can bring it forth by this grace.'

People who have any regard for the truth can easily determine for themselves that Mr. Rawat did indeed repeatedly claim to be a messiah and that he was blatantly lying in 1996 when he denied ever having done so. Anyone interested can read Mr. Rawat's full speech in Boulder, and many other similar speeches, in the book 'Who is Guru Maharaji?'

Unfortunately, there are many people who claim to love truth who in fact have no regard for the truth and who can't recognize the truth when it slaps them in the face. These are the people who follow Mr. Rawat to this day.

So premies, do any of you care to carefully consider these two quotes? Are you really lovers of truth and do you like your truth simple and direct, or do you prefer it embellished with carefully orchestrated presentations, outright lies and pathetic deceptions? Are you interested in the issues here, in examing the facts and your own conscience, or do you merely wish to sling careless insults and run and hide, prefering to bathe yourself in the comforting blather of Mr. Rawat's latest speech? Any comments?

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Date: Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 23:08:40 (GMT)
From: Han
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: Full moon,, or just a bad day, Way?
Message:
Dear Way,
Don't you think you may be missing the point,,just a little? Debating what someone said or didn't say 20 yrs. ago is somewhat,,, ridiculous. I mean, 2 billion hindus
revere a saint that may not have even lived. Another several billion debate whether they should take birth control because of a carpenter who lived in the middle east 2000 yrs. ago.

I've mentioned this before to you. Perspective is relative and
worship is personal. What's your point? Anger? How unproductive.

I do want to thank you for an invigorating conversation several weeks ago. Take care.
Han

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Date: Thurs, Jul 20, 2000 at 02:22:18 (GMT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Han
Subject: Full moon,, or just a bad day, Way?
Message:
You're the one who's missing the point, Han.

In 1996 Maharaji said ': 'Some people had a concept that I was some kind of messiah or prophet, and that wasn't really acceptable to a lot of people. But I was saying right from the beginning: I'm not a messiah; I'm not a prophet, I'm none of those things.'

Right from the beginning? You and I both know that's a lie. Or maybe M's memory doesn't serve him so well. Which do you think it is?

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Date: Wed, Jul 19, 2000 at 14:54:14 (GMT)
From: Way
Email: None
To: Han
Subject: Re:Full moon, or just a bad day, Way?
Message:
Hello Han,

You make a legitimate point, from a certain perspective. All the arguments are indeed pretty ridiculous when you look at it from a higher perspective, so to speak. It reminds me of the time when my sister and I were about 19 and 21 respectively. We were at my parent's home, in my old bedroom, arguing about Guru Maharaji vs Jesus (my sister was a born-again Christian and I was an ashram premie). My mother came in and listened for awhile, and then simply remarked that she thought that love was the answer. When Mom left, my sister and I went right back to arguing.

Of course I also agree with you that perspective is relative and worship is personal, but I'll have to make a minor quibble about anger, which is sometimes an impetus for productive change.

That said, the question remains open about following Mr. Rawat as the Master, and whether or not he is a liar. I believe that Mr. Rawat is a fraud. The truth is not his, and he has no truth to share, because he perverted it long ago.

Fake gurus are among the lowest of the low. Humanity has wasted centuries debating these bozos, as you know, and now is the time to expose them. And I do mean it literally that now is the time. With the advent of the Internet, abundant information on all the present day Incarnations of God is readily available, and information will be their undoing. Fundamentalist religion hurts people, and it is time to stop hurting. Unfortunately, there will always be people like Shroom. He thinks the little buzz he gets is a spiritual blessing from Prem Pal Singh Rawat, and there's no convincing him otherwise.

By the way, my sister is no longer born-again. Her second birth was decidedly unnecessary. She no longer thinks that I'm going to hell because I'm gay, and I no longer think I'm going to eternal bliss via Mr. Rawat's grace. We get along better now.

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Date: Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 17:06:17 (GMT)
From: Shroomananda
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: That's supposed to convince me?
Message:
NT
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Date: Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 15:50:06 (GMT)
From: Elaine
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: To the premies here: the lies of your Master
Message:
I would love M to explain the many inconsistencies.

Like how about a fortressed, highly secured hall where he tells his followers what the jig really is.
You know, like REALLY what all the inconsistencies are about.Who he really is and the whole deal with the ash closings and the Jagdeo debacle and why he still intends to do nothing and on and on.

I'd like you,Way,to be the one with the mike. Because you would be clear and not all sarcastic.

Why is it you think premies don't want to know the truth?

What I'd love to hear him say from his own mouth is what someone (shp?) said he said- that you don't need a master -with enough desire, effort and (grace?) you can 'get there'? Was it?

I'd love it.
Oh, and how about the peace bomb ss explained. And how about the claim he's going to bring peace on Earth in his lifetime.I'd love to hear what he has to say.

I think M is actually stupid now - he doesn't handle things so well. I love the meditation. Don't get me wrong.

I'd love to hear Bill Patterson tell all he knows and why he left -asumung that's true.

If we can't get M -what about some big names Joe Nader,Teddy Tannenbaum were up there why don't they tell us some stuff.I'm sure you all know others I don't. I loved that Jim contacted M.Dettmers.
I want the scoop.

Elaine

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Date: Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 19:18:02 (GMT)
From: P-man
Email: None
To: Elaine
Subject: To the premies here: the lies of your Master
Message:
Well, Elaine, I think I'm convinced now you're not a premie. Unless you do an about-face or contradict what you've said in your post here. All I can say is 'congrats'.

But... all things well and good, you say some incredibly naive things here. Maharaji is either a big-fat liar or severely confused. It's almost certain he's a big-fat liar but either way he doesn't tell the truth or act honestly. The chances of having an audience in the way you describe is almost impossible. It's hard to believe you think it's really possible.

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Date: Wed, Jul 19, 2000 at 00:29:13 (GMT)
From: Elaine
Email: None
To: P-man
Subject: To the premies here: the lies of your Master
Message:
Then don't believe it. You're a pig -don't address me anymore. Shove your congrats up your butt.
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Date: Wed, Jul 19, 2000 at 05:40:44 (GMT)
From: P-man
Email: None
To: Elaine
Subject: To the premies here: the lies of your Master
Message:
I can't just let total naivete slip by. I just had to say something. And oh... I'll address whoever I please.
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Date: Wed, Jul 19, 2000 at 01:56:56 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: Elaine
Subject: Another one, Elaine?
Message:
:0
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Date: Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 17:09:39 (GMT)
From: Shroomananda
Email: None
To: Elaine
Subject: There are people in over 80 countries experiencing
Message:
peace. I'd say he's done a pretty damn good job establishing peace on earth! Pretty prophetic statement from an 11 year old!
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Date: Wed, Jul 19, 2000 at 00:31:24 (GMT)
From: Elaine
Email: None
To: Shroomananda
Subject: There are people in over 80 countries experiencing
Message:
Shroom,
Sorry, my standards are different.Glad you're happy,tho.
Elaine
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Date: Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 20:11:21 (GMT)
From: P-man
Email: None
To: Shroomananda
Subject: There are people in over 80 countries experiencing
Message:
Your comment is just plain stupid and one of maharaji's own pathetic attempts to whitewash his failure to deliver on his promise.

Look, if someone says 'I will give some people in over 80 countries the experience of peace' that is much different than saying 'I will establish peace on earth'. Use your head.

Any reasonable person would understand maharaji's 'peace bomb' satsang to mean he would radically change civilization to the point that war would no longer be a constant and substantial reality.

Not only that... hundreds of other cults have done exactly the same thing as maharaji: Brainwashed cult-members to think they were give something special when in reality they are just imagining.

Sorry, Bubba, you're just so very wrong on this. And I'll bet some of those '80 countries' just have a few cult-members under the delusion they have 'peace'. You're not trying to inflate the statistics are you?

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Date: Wed, Jul 19, 2000 at 02:31:18 (GMT)
From: Han
Email: None
To: P-man
Subject: A different perspective,,,
Message:
P-man,
Excuse me, sorry to interject..
Did the life and teachings of Christ, the proclaimed 'son of God'
'Lamb of Peace' who now supposedly, sits at the right hand of God, the Father,, 'radically change civilization to the point that war would no longer be a constant and substantial reality'?
Again I have to say I'm sorry,,, but your perspective
and most assuredly your ego are the things inflated most here.
There are several billion hindus,another couple billion buddists,,, and several hundred million christians in the world.
Is there peace on earth? Do you understand that peace, truth,
love, god, are all terms for a perception? It's where your at that matters,,,not the 300,000 premies,,or the Hindus, Jews, Christians,,,,Peace is a state of the heart.

There are no differences between that which resides within us.

MK Ghandi once said, ' To me God is truth and love. God is ethics and morality; god is fearlessness. God is the source of light and life, and yet he is above and beyond all these. God is conscience. He is even the atheism of the atheist. For in his boundless love, God permits the atheist to live. He is the searcher of the hearts. He knows us and our hearts better than we do ourselves...He is the 'personal god' to those who need his personal presence. He is 'embodied' to those who need his touch.
He is the Purest Essence. He'is' to those who have faith. He is allthings to all men.'

There is much more 'peace on earth' than we know...

Respectfully,
Han

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Date: Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 20:38:22 (GMT)
From: Shroomananda
Email: None
To: P-man
Subject: I know there is at least one person--Me!
Message:
I want peace. Whether the 6 billion others on the planet experience peace or not is not up to me. As my Master once said:
'People who look for peace get it.' I was looking for it. Were you? Or were you looking for 6 billion others to get it first?
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Date: Wed, Jul 19, 2000 at 05:12:56 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: Shroomananda
Subject: Such a shallow and selfish statement!!
Message:
Darling you need professional help very badly!
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Date: Wed, Jul 19, 2000 at 05:28:07 (GMT)
From: Shroomananda
Email: None
To: SB
Subject: I have the best professional help--Maharaji! nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Wed, Jul 19, 2000 at 15:39:09 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Shroomananda
Subject: Why Maharaji's no professional
Message:
If Maharaji were a 'professional' he'd necessarily answer to some licensing body. I can't think of a single profession that's an exception. They all oversee their members and hold them accountable for negligence and worse. This kind of attitude:

When you slip on a banana skin, you can’t blame the banana or the person who threw it there. It was you, through a moment of unconsciousness, didn’t look where you were walking.

wouldn't quite cut it. Professionals do indeed have to take responsibility for where they leave their banana peels. And no, it's not good enough for them to answer their critics with 'analysis leads to paralysis' (note the hysterical and unintentionally far-too-revealing description of Maharaji in his 'Biography' on EV's site as someone who appears to be very much a believer in the 'analysis leads to paralysis' syndrome. 'Syndrome' is right!)

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Date: Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 20:51:02 (GMT)
From: P-man
Email: None
To: Shroomananda
Subject: I know there is at least one person--Me!
Message:
Look, Shroom, try to be objective here for a minute. Anyone who heard or read maharaji's 'Peace Bomb' satsang when it was given would infer that maharaji was saying he would radically change civilization. He said he would do it and he didn't do it.

All the other stuff can be dealt with at another time. Can we agree it would be reasonable from reading maharaji's Peace Bomb satsang that he was promising to radically change civilization?

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Date: Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 21:00:33 (GMT)
From: Shroomananda
Email: None
To: P-man
Subject: He has radically changed civilization!
Message:
People all over the world are hearing about Knowledge. In India, tens of thousands of people are waiting for Knowledge. How do you account for the fact that in India, so many people love and revere him and so much propagation has been done. There are so many Gurus in India, you'd think that they would be the first ones to denounce a false one. But they keep on coming, don't they?
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Date: Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 22:06:24 (GMT)
From: P-man
Email: None
To: Shroomananda
Subject: He has radically changed civilization!
Message:
Totally amazing. You think the Guru has radically changed civilization, and yet, he hasn't even made a dent in civilization, not one drop. Nothing he has done would rate even a footnote in the history of humanity.

But what is truly remarkable is that you think Guru Maharaj Ji has really made a difference in the world. Other than a handful of zombified cult members who are confused liars there isn't one redeeming thing the fat hamster has done.

And shame on you for lying.

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Date: Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 22:16:55 (GMT)
From: Shroomananda
Email: None
To: P-man
Subject: Yeah, I love fat hamsters, they're so adorable!
Message:
He gave you the gift of Knowledge and all you can do is call him a fat hamster? Did you call him that or think that when you were a devotee? What's up with that? Also, you didn't respond to my comment about all the aspirants in India. They've had Gurus for thousands of years yet they keep flocking to him. Do they know something you don't know? Just asking.
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Date: Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 23:49:29 (GMT)
From: Super Arti
Email: None
To: Shroomananda
Subject: Is because maharaji is a GOOD con, a good liar
Message:
Whould you want me to find some of his quotes from a recent program he had in India? There people are lied even more. Indian Premies sing darshan to him there still!!How many gurus there call themeselves the Supreme Power In Person and allow others to bow to him and kiss his feet? They found 'the real one', just because he says so; he is the Perfect Hamster after all. You can respect him, I don't have to.

More proof than that? He is no God but in India. hahahaha...get out of here...now I can't stop laughing....
SB

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Date: Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 18:15:27 (GMT)
From: Hal
Email: None
To: Shroomananda
Subject: You belive anything Shroo-- Brainwashed one nt
Message:
asfdghj
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Date: Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 17:44:53 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Shroomananda
Subject: Did you ever wonder how many EXACTLY?
Message:
Stating that there are people 'experiencing peace' in 80 countries (by m's grace of course) doesn't mean much.

How many do experience it WITHOUT His Grace ?

And how many BY His Grace ?

I've been into keeping statistics for EV (and Rawat) for quite a while, and I've never seen any official accounts of persons practicing k AND experiencing peace by this medium. Maybe some people here and there, but nothing convincing IMO. The only figures EV really keeps is entrances figures. And if you go 8 time a month watch a video you're counted for 8 !!!!!!
I have some good idea of the number of persons really practicing and happy with it for France for instance: I'd say no more than 200, when the 'official' mailing list figure is somewhere near 1,500, and very likely somewhere near 1,000 for the monthly attendance (when most attendees are counted several times).

I know there is one guy (assisted by some premies) in Malibu keeping records of people actually practicing, people having received k etc.

I challenge Rawat to publicise these figures BEFORE they go public ...... You know what ? Some of those guys might defect and spill the beans !!!!!!

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Date: Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 18:00:43 (GMT)
From: Shroomananda
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Even if only one person on the planet is
Message:
experiencing peace, then he did establish peace on earth. I experience peace when I listen to him and practice his Knowledge so I'm experiencing peace on earth. So he did establish peace on earth for me, unless you want to call me a liar too!
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Date: Wed, Jul 19, 2000 at 01:48:09 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: Shroomananda
Subject: He meant FAR more than that
Message:
By 'establish peace on earth', he meant FAR more than one person feeling peaceful.

From the Peace Bomb Satsang:


Oh, give what is mine back to me, and I will give you such a thing, such a peace, that not even a pistol or a gun will be found in the country. Not one leader will stand and shout slogans, not a man of the army will remain and, dear premies, there will be peace. ...
... Lions and sheep, pigeons and cats will drink water in the same lake, and there will be no hostility. ...
... Kaliyuga will come to an end and Satyuga will start and people will listen to me and act accordingly. Do you think it is a joke? The great leaders think that I have come to rule and yes, they are right! I will rule the world, and just watch how I will do it. Even the lion and sheep will embrace each other. ...
... To every single child, I will reveal this Name. ...
... Whether you take it as my prophecy or anything else, the Kingdom of Peace will be established soon. Those people who roam about like insects of the monsoon, misguiding the people, will be set aside. Today people everywhere listen to film songs and do not find time for Truth. Here I say that such films will be destroyed. ...

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Date: Wed, Jul 19, 2000 at 02:43:01 (GMT)
From: Shroomananda
Email: None
To: G
Subject: No Sale, G, he also said that if he asked you to
Message:
cut off your head and give it to him that you should do it. When you were a devotee and you read that, did you really think that you would be asked to cut your head off? He was speaking before more than a million people on the anniversary of his father. He was rallying the troops. And he was just 12 years old. Anyway, what difference does it make what he said then or even now? His offer of Knowledge to people remains the same. It's still a gift. It's still free of charge. If people like it, fine. And if they don't, fine. It's an individual thing. Peace on earth will only come one person at a time. What can he do if people don't want inner peace? Force them to receive his gift? Try again.
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Date: Thurs, Jul 20, 2000 at 00:58:05 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: Shroomananda
Subject: cut your head for Guru Maharaj Ji
Message:
I was thinking of including that quote, just because it is so outragious. Thanks for bringing it up. Here is the quote, also from the Peace Bomb Satsang:

If I ask you to cut your head for Guru Maharaj Ji, you should do it and offer it to Him on a plate. You should sacrifice every drop of blood for Guru Maharaj Ji.

Yes, that is very 'poetic' language that cannot be taken literally, since you would be dead and couldn't offer your head to him. However, 'poetic' here is along the lines of Vogon poetry. He shouldn't have said things like that, it's crazy. I don't think I ever read that as a 'devotee', or if I did, I blocked it out of my thoughts, like I did many things related to Guru Maharaj Ji and Divine Light Mission/Elan Vital. I certainly wasn't told that as an aspirant, if I was, I may not have asked for K and definitely would have been more wary of him.

This does not mean that what he said about establishing 'Peace on Earth' was simply 'poetic', i.e. just a bunch of bs. He surely meant FAR more than what he has accomplished.

And he was just 12 years old.

Also from the Peace Bomb Satsang:


What if I am twelve years old? What does it matter? Old people drive cars and I also can drive a car. What does it matter if I am twelve? If at twelve I can drive a car which one is able to do only at the age of eighteen, why can I not give Knowledge of the Soul at the age of twelve? Is this impossible? This is possible.

So what are you saying, that he wasn't 'the Master' when he was 12? If he wasn't 'the Master' then, then he isn't 'the Master' now. Surely if he truly was 'the Master', he wouldn't have said confused things like this.

Anyway, what difference does it make what he said then or even now?

If it doesn't matter what he says, then why listen to him? Given that he is 'the Speaker', it does matter what he says. When you listen to someone, it matters what they say, especially when you're paying money to listen. My guess is that you do 'donate' money to hear him. This idea that 'it' is 'not the words' is absurd and can be used as a mind control technique. The words - not just how they are said - matter.

Things should make sense, they should add up. It's important to listen with discrimination and not just accept everything that is said. One big problem is that premies don't listen critically enough when hearing with he says. By critically I don't mean negatively, just with discrimination. You may try to just overlook the negative side of what he says, but you cannot, it affects you anyway, so it's better to be clear about what is going on. I think there is something good about some of what he says, but in my opinion, overall it's very tainted, mixed with another message which is not good at all.

It's still free of charge.

What is free of charge, meditating? Sure, that's free of charge once you know the techniques, but it's not as simple as that. Nowadays, a person must listen to videos for six months and most likely travel out of state just to 'ask for Knowledge'. From what I can see, there is a lot of pressure to 'donate' even when a person is 'preparing' (ie. being 'prepared') to 'receive Knowledge'. So it's hardly free. Then once one 'has K', 'keeping in touch' costs money, and 'keeping in touch' is one of the 'promises' one must make to learn the techniques. People are conned into thinking the techniques don't work without him, and there is pressure to 'donate'. To listen to videos, this pressure is unavoidable. To 'keep in touch', it's nearly impossible not to give money. Consider the US tour, it was overbooked. Do you think that people who didn't 'donate' got in? I would say few, if any. I even know of a case where someone donated and didn't get in.

It's an individual thing.

So what does he have to do with it?

receive his gift

It is not his gift, he doesn't own it. It is not his to give. It is not something you 'receive'. The meditation techniques are learned, not received, and he didn't invent them. Whatever is within you is already within you, so you can't receive it.

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Date: Thurs, Jul 20, 2000 at 01:22:48 (GMT)
From: Shroomananda
Email: None
To: G
Subject: Good post! It's not the words, as he has said
Message:
many times, it's the feelings behind the words. When Christ was walking along the sea of Gallilee and said to Peter, 'Follow me', why did Peter follow him? It wasn't the words. Peter felt something and followed.

As far as Maharaji being 12 years old, what were you doing at 12 years old? Probably not standing in front of more than a million people promising to bring peace to the world. But he still was just 12 years old, so I think we should cut him some slack on that especially since it seems to hurt so many of you that he did not live up to that claim, according to your concepts.

And it is his gift. His father gave it to him. He gave it to me and to countless others like you. I love the gift. If I gave you a green cadillac and you got all pissed off at me because you wanted a red one, should I apologize? Before Knowledge, that beauty was within me, but did I know how to access it? No. And nobody else ever offered it to me before or after I received Knowledge. So don't give me that crap that I could get it anywhere or on my own.

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Date: Thurs, Jul 20, 2000 at 01:50:05 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: Shroomananda
Subject: It's not his gift
Message:
No, I wasn't making false promises to 'more than a million' people. Well shame on me.

According to my 'concepts'? No, according to a careful reading of what he actually said, not a distorted version of it.

No, it is not his gift. Tell me why you believe he 'owns' the techniques. His father taught him the techniques, that is all. His father didn't invent them either. I learned the techniques from a mahatma who later left him. I started doing the techniques the revised way before he revised them. He didn't give me or even teach me the techniques. You are assuming that I don't like them, that is not true. When I asked to be taught the techniques, my reason was that I wanted to meditate in order to feel more peaceful. Meditation does help me feel more peaceful. But 'Maharaji' confused and still confuses the issue with extraneous stuff like over-hyping it and dragging in concepts like 'you need the Master' and 'keep in touch'. Face it, he likes the 'adulation' (see the EV site) and the money.

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Date: Thurs, Jul 20, 2000 at 02:06:29 (GMT)
From: Shroomananda
Email: None
To: G
Subject: Well, at least you feel peace. To me, that's the
Message:
important part. I don't care whose gift it is frankly. If someone wants to take the techniques and start teaching people, then that's up to them. I don't think I've mastered them enough to teach others, however, so I think I'll remain his student. Somehow that seems to feel right, to me.
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Date: Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 18:48:09 (GMT)
From: Way
Email: wwilliam@kumc.edu
To: Shroomananda
Subject: To Shroomananda
Message:
Shroonmananda,

No, I'm not trying to convince you with only two small quotes. It's just a beginning.

I have read a few of your posts here, but I don't think I've read all of them. I did read the one where you explained how you happened to be introduced to this site, (very interesting). And I get the impression that you received Knowledge relatively recently.

I can understand your perspective, but I have to tell you that you really are not fully informed about Mr. Rawat and Knowledge. For instance, your stance about the 'peace on earth' quote is that Maharaji was talking about certain individuals (like you) and not the whole world. Your stance shows that you have not read the whole speech. Maharaji made it perfectly clear that he was refering to world peace. A few sentences later in that speech, he said: 'I am increasing this Knowledge to stop the bombs from destroying the whole world and I need your cooperation.' Your interpretation of his speech is invalid and based on being misinformed.

If you like, I can send you the whole speech and others as well, from the book 'Who is Guru Maharaji.' In fact, I suggest that you read the entire book, because you are making excuses about Maharaji's past when you don't even know the facts about Maharaji's past.

You obviously also are not aware of the fact that there are about 60,000 people in the United States alone who have received Knowledge in the past 30 years. Of that number, only about 2,000 - 4,000 continue to follow Mr. Rawat in any way. The numbers are hard to pin down, but believe me, they are not in Rawat's favor!

You also seem to be oblivious to the number of cult leaders in the world who teach the same techniques as Mr. Rawat, who make the same claims as Mr. Rawat, and who have many more devoted followers. See Rick Ross and other websites.

I urge you to inform yourself. I have provided my email address, above. Please write me directly and I will also supply you with references to other pertinent information. For instance, the Jagdeo problem is one that all practicing premies need to come to terms with. Are you aware of it?

If you do not wish to email me, then please follow my link to the 9 objections letter, which discusses the issues in detail. That link is below in the thread started by Jewels, titled 'What you are searching for is within you, in the post by Way, subject: 'concerns and objections.'

On the other hand, if you are not interested in the issues, then please go away.

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Date: Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 19:22:36 (GMT)
From: Shroomananda
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: Thanks but I already have several copies of Who Is
Message:
Guru Maharaj Ji? On page 14 of that book, he also said, which you neglected to mention in your post, 'But what can I do unless men come to me with love in their heart and a keen wish to know peace and Truth?' I have come to him with love in my heart and a keen wish to know peace and Truth and he established peace on earth for me. I don't know about anyone else. As far as hungry people, etc., I do what I can. If you're hungry, you're welcome to come to my house for a feast. I even eat meat! But that has nothing to do with the gift of Knowledge that Maharaji is offering to people. Peace!

(I apologize to Michael for posting this response on his reply.)

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Date: Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 22:55:40 (GMT)
From: Michael
Email: None
To: Shroomananda
Subject: Thanks but I already have several copies of Who Is
Message:
Really! Quoting from 'Who is Guru Maharaj-ji?' Puhleez!!!
So, really, as long as you have peace, the hell with everyone else, right? If they had any sense they would come to Guru Maharaj-ji 'with love in their heart and a keen wish to know peace and truth,' right? You got yours, the hell with everyone else.
I agree, it does no good to comment on M's girth; I'm a bit overweight myself, but really, have you actually sat down and thought about this stuff? Do you mean to tell me that you have had no doubts at all since 1982? And you really didn't answer my question: how does your 'feeling good' bring peace to the world? Have you ever honestly sat and down and examined your experience? Have you ever honestly sat and down and examined the 'words of Maharaji?' They really don't hold up in the long run. I hope that your visit here will awaken just a wee bit of your intellect.
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Date: Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 23:26:53 (GMT)
From: Shroomananda
Email: None
To: Michael
Subject: He gave me a gift that I liked and I also like
Message:
listening to him. It's as simple as that. I tell others about it whenever I can and give videos to those who want to watch him talk about it. What else can I do? Whether someone investigates Maharaji and Knowledge or not is out of my hands. I certainly don't feel like you said '.. to hell with them.' I'll do whatever I can to help Maharaji offer his gift to the people on this planet. And no, I've had no doubts about Maharaji or Knowledge since I've received it. Some of the premies and external trappings I've doubted, yes. But the Knowledge itself and Maharaji have been rock solid, in my never to be humble opinion. I did doubt some while I was aspiring to receive it, but the Knowledge session dispelled all those doubts. As far as quoting from 'Who Is...', I mistakenly posted to you what I meant to post to someone else. But it was published and sold in bookstores where anyone could buy it, wasn't it? So I don't feel bad about quoting from it, even though you exes feel it's one of the reasons for your 'disenchantment' from Maharaji and Knowledge. It is still an external component and it all boils down to Maharaji and Knowledge, doesn't it? Either it works or it doesn't. To me, it does. And I thank him everyday for making the effort that he did to give it to me.
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Date: Wed, Jul 19, 2000 at 00:19:13 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: Shroomananda
Subject: He gave me a gift that I liked and I also like
Message:
to be dense and I like to refuse to hear what you all are saying...something like that, isn't.

Super Blind=SB

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Date: Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 18:25:52 (GMT)
From: Michael
Email: None
To: Shroomananda
Subject: Even if only one person on the planet is
Message:
I won't call you a liar, but I think that you may be deluded. If one person experiences peace he has established peace on this earth? Do you see how you are rationalizing his failure? How do you define peace? Is it simply 'feeling good?' How does your good feeling improve the state of affairs in the world? How does your good feeling end wars and hunger and disease? How does your feeling good feed the hungry, clothe the naked, help the sick, or care for the prisoner? How is your feeling good from sitting under a blanket every day different from those who feel good because they drink or smoke dope or even, ahem, eat 'shrooms? How is it different from taking a nap everyday? Come on, how is your feeling good establishing peace on this earth?
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Date: Wed, Jul 19, 2000 at 00:16:20 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: Michael
Subject: Even if only one person on the planet is (OT)
Message:
You caught the 'shrooms' too!

Made a note of your post and a couple of other things. Will get back to you soon.

Stonor

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Date: Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 19:17:58 (GMT)
From: Shroomananda
Email: None
To: Michael
Subject: Thanks but I already have several copies of Who Is
Message:
Guru Maharaj Ji? On page 14 of that book, he also said, which you neglected to mention in your post, 'But what can I do unless men come to me with love in their heart and a keen wish to know peace and Truth?' I have come to him with love in my heart and a keen wish to know peace and Truth and he established peace on earth for me. I don't know about anyone else. As far as hungry people, etc., I do what I can. If you're hungry, you're welcome to come to my house for a feast. I even eat meat! But that has nothing to do with the gift of Knowledge that Maharaji is offering to people. Peace!
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Date: Wed, Jul 19, 2000 at 00:18:25 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: Shroomananda
Subject: Aren't you *special*, Shroom!! (nt)
Message:
Aren't you special, Shroom!! (nt)
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Date: Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 18:17:46 (GMT)
From: Hal
Email: None
To: Shroomananda
Subject: Oh give us a break-- Start thinking !!!! nt
Message:
dfh
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Date: Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 18:20:59 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Hal
Subject: Twisty way with words, these premies eh, Hal?
Message:
in fact, very deceitful - I wonder where they get it from? Is it 'within, inside'? ...
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Date: Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 18:24:05 (GMT)
From: hal
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: Slimy little buggers indeed cq - quite revealing !
Message:
couldn't fit nt in sorry.
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Date: Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 21:58:56 (GMT)
From: ham
Email: None
To: hal
Subject: Never trust a junkie!
Message:
Think Jerry's description above is a perfect fit!
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Date: Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 16:15:50 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Elaine
Subject: You've already got the scoop, Elaine.
Message:
It's all laid out for your consumption. Goober ain't gonna 'fess up. What more do you need?

You know, like REALLY what all the inconsistencies are about.Who he really is

This is sooo dumb. 'Who he really is' as in Santa Claus or the easter bunny or something? I'll tell you 'who he is.' He a fat greasy lying little Indian SOB guru religonist businessman who happened to fall into a lucrative gig inherited from his family with enough charisma and brains to exploit a bunch of well intentioned but extraordinarily naive bunch of western kids and has some how through fraud, mind control, and manipulation managed to hold on to enough of these people to enrich himself.

Clear?

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Date: Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 17:07:20 (GMT)
From: RobertB
Email: bobb@wintelsolutions.com
To: gerry
Subject: What do rotting vegies smell like in cyberspace?
Message:
Such angst. Maybe you ought to sit down for an hour every morning. (You know, he will be exposed - I'm just waiting for that day to get a little satisfaction)
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Date: Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 14:19:05 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Soul Rush (edited version) back online
Message:
S. Collier's 'Soul Rush' back online.

Soul Rush - Edited Version

I've removed all personal details, and kept only what's relevant to her involvement with DLM and service in DLM's Headquarters.

Enjoy ...

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Date: Wed, Jul 19, 2000 at 11:51:58 (GMT)
From: jondon
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Where can I obtain a copy.....
Message:
of this book? I know of someone who needs to read it to better understand the inner happenings of this cult he is in. Thanx J-M
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Date: Thurs, Jul 20, 2000 at 19:45:38 (GMT)
From: Monmot
Email: None
To: jondon
Subject: Where can I obtain a copy.....
Message:
Jondon:

Go to abebooks.com and search for 'Divine Times,' by Sophia Collier. They have an advanced reading copy available. Evidently, the book was going to be entitled 'Divine Times,' but before it was printed, the title must've been changed to 'Soul Rush.' I have a copy of 'Divine Times,' and it's the same book as 'Soul Rush.'

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Date: Wed, Jul 19, 2000 at 16:36:16 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: jondon
Subject: It's available online !!!!!
Message:
and you can reprint all the text.

If you want the real book, you'll have to do some research, maybe public libraries, second hand bookstores etc ....

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Date: Wed, Jul 19, 2000 at 04:19:27 (GMT)
From: bill
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: thank you JM.....(nt)
Message:
fdgjd
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Date: Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 05:27:57 (GMT)
From: sam
Email: -
To: Everyone
Subject: first class
Message:
do we know that uses a computer program called 'first class' on which premies communicate? They have all these secret little boxes where A and B can look in this box but not others
They have boxes for propagation, finance etc and all top secret like little kids. Also the egos are rife as the hierarchy flows.
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Date: Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 05:42:33 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: sam
Subject: sam if you are going to give info
Message:
please give it.
Sorry but your post doesn't make any sense.
It is like a tease.
So you are telling us about some secret computer system or communications systems you have knowledge of or have heard of or something.
I'm really not trying to sound mean or ..... another way to say it:
I don't mean to confront but this type of thing has been told but not told to me so many times before.

And I end up knowing and not knowing absolutely nothing at all! So can you elaborate? What is A to B doing? Using? etc...

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Date: Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 10:17:19 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: JM and SB know more about First Class...
Message:
...maybe others as well. I don't know any details, just that Elan Vital uses a web-based communication system called 'First Class'. Very protected and secret.

TC, Selene
Katie

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Date: Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 12:15:40 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: JM and SB know more about First Class...
Message:
At least was like that a couple of years a go. First Class is a software that allows Elan Vital to communicate with the all communities around the world, large and small, through a computer. Elan Vital sends a premie the software and a personal password that you chose. My ex-husband was giving the password fish something(how appropiate) LOL. Because maharaji wants all extra synchronized (CONTROLLED) First Class is a way to pass info quick to the communitiy organizers: City Contact and Aspirants Contacts. An example. When Lardy 'has accepted an invitation to speak' somewhere (wants money) everybody is informed and all the little servants get ready and busy, jumping up and down with joy. All the information at local events is obtained that way,through First Class. Small communities who do not have a PC receives the info from larger cities in the same state. 'Heavy' info is never, never written, but said at phone conferences or private meetings/workshops as the one in Chicago last year mentioned here.

The system is used for all sort of things. Communities ask questions about how to do something, say, they cannot write anything that is going to be on the information tables at local events without somebody authorizing it first. You can send mail to anybody in it. There is a section where the names of all the participants around the world are given, including most top hats of Elan Vital. To some you cannot write. There are areas where you need extra authorization to get in. I never got there. Maybe is where charanand and m go, and what is the name of the plumpy Indian who is with Lardy all the time, to inspire everybody... All is so, so full of magic, well, that is what a devotee is supposse to believe. Yuck.

More information about First Class is going to be given here later. I want to understand all. I want to know why Elan Vital says that they don't have memebers but they connect their pc's with others. What was I? Well, maybe they are right saying that there are no members, and denying it doesn't constitute a lie because people are called servants, not memebers.

JM, I think has info about it. Do you JM?

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Date: Wed, Jul 19, 2000 at 00:44:58 (GMT)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: SB
Subject: ha ha Lardy....
Message:
that was funny.

When he had his fourthieth did the invites say

'Lardy, Lardy, Lardy look who's fourty'?

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Date: Wed, Jul 19, 2000 at 05:26:18 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: Susan
Subject: ha ha Lardy....
Message:
I'm glad it make you laugh: Is my favorite lately. LOL

He is my Lardy, the Lardy of my life, the one who greased my life for twenty some years. He is so cute....NOT!!

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Date: Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 15:03:20 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: SB
Subject: More about First Class... and some news
Message:
Yeah, that's the basics. As far as I know, their '1st Class' system is not connected to the net. They have at least 2 computers hosting the bbs, one in Spain for Europe, and one in Californias for the US, which you access by regular phone#.

They have various conferences and mailing systems. It is quite easy to access the system using some recent exes passwords, as long as EV hasn't removed them from their lists .... but I won't reveal my privilege of course.

Nothing very exciting, except for the premies of course. I might reproduce some stuff one of these days when one of my moles will be banned ..... please have some patience !

I guess the whole thing gives them some feeling of participating to something important, when NOTHING really is happening in EV these days. No programs, less and less premies, no new videos. The kind of feeling that was there in the mid 80s. Rawat's selfmade videos' quality is worse than ever.

Some stupid thing porky's decided recently: he's not going to have 'events' in any country that doesn't have its website set up.

Still extremely paranoid with the 'press' and journalists !!!

Some instructors touring here and there, not much attendance.

Lots of premies working on keeping updated statistics (EV mode).

1st row seats at last Amaroo event last year: about $ 7,000.

Constant fundraisings for Amaroo, where events keps being postponed.

Amaroo's management run by external consultants.

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Date: Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 21:44:37 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: thanks JM SB Katie
Message:
Kind of anticlimatic. I have heard all kinds of high tech rumours.
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Date: Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 11:53:11 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: No cookies , no maharaja
Message:
Has anyone tried entering maharaji web site, with the cookies disabled, I could not unless I enabled them. Why do they need the cookies enabled, spy on you maybe.
Also, anyone tried sending him e-mail, if you did you will notice that they use a special e-mail server which masks the name of the ISP provider, veeerrryyy seeeccrriittive. Something dojjy is defenitly going on, maybe EV is an ISP provider, oh by the great gorilla of Manilla.

Most likly they are using 'First Class' made by 'FUTURUS'. Check their site at

http://www.futurus.com/first.htm

may the god of the internet be with you

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Date: Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 15:52:32 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: No cookies necessary, but I don't know how
Message:
Maybe some of the MANY computing experts here could help out. I think this information has been put on the forum before.
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Date: Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 17:03:42 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: No cookies necessary, but I don't know how
Message:
What is that u need K?
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Date: Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 12:17:39 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: What about that you go in but can't get out?
Message:
Did that happen to anybody or just me? I go to look at the toilette bowl sometimes and everytime I get trapped there.
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Date: Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 14:15:44 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: SB
Subject: What about that you go in but can't get out?
Message:
Sorry SB, never fell in the toilet so far,but while we are at it, I put a trace on maharaji.org, it seems to be located east of phlidelphia, mid way to the occean, their domain is registered with Network Solution INC, their ISP number is 207.127.93.3 and I think they use Sprint Bussiness Solution Group
for a backbone. I managed to log into Network Solution INC as maharaji.org, but could not procceed because of passwords, my intention was to change the name to ex.maharaji.org, shacks perhaps Next time, but then I was asleep, I do not know if this is a dream or not? By the way for those that do not have a firewall, get one for free from http://grc.com
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Date: Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 06:05:28 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: all
Subject: now i'm on a roll here
Message:
What is the story on their phone system and computer systems? I know someone knows.
Any info out there? their switch sytems? etc???? come on I wanna know. Blame it on Sam he started it.
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Date: Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 05:48:05 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: sam if you are going to give info
Message:
I agree.
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Date: Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 04:49:08 (GMT)
From: sam
Email: -
To: Everyone
Subject: challenge
Message:
I wish I could challenge the premies I know to read all at this site (eg journeys) and then decide if all they 'feel' is still so true. If so..fine.
But most are too scared to take the chance-incase the doubt monster from hell takes over their mind. My ex is one of them.
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Date: Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 11:49:02 (GMT)
From: A Very Active Man
Email: Peter Allen
To: sam
Subject: challenge
Message:
Dear Sam
Please dont be fooled , this site holds no mystery for many of us.

(edited)

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Date: Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 13:02:53 (GMT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: A Very Active Man
Subject: challenge
Message:
VA,

Answer me honestly. What have you realized since you've received Knowledge? Do you now know God, where before you only believed in him? Remember how that was such a big deal? Other people only believed in God. But premies know him. Remember? Is this the case in your life?

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Date: Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 14:19:14 (GMT)
From: Macho Man
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: challenge
Message:
Really Jerry, what the fuck are you talking about? Are you a borne again Christian?Oh the past is such fun....
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Date: Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 14:46:23 (GMT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Macho Man
Subject: challenge
Message:
Tell me this, Macho Man (right). Why did you stop pursuing God realization? Why is that no longer in style? Was it only a fad?
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Date: Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 19:51:53 (GMT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: Oh, Macho Maaaan!
Message:
Hey, Macho, I'd really like an answer. If you can't deal with it, fine. I'll assume that's the case. There was a time when being a premie meant pursuing God-realization, at the behest of the master. How come that stopped?
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Date: Wed, Jul 19, 2000 at 03:09:18 (GMT)
From: The Indian Chief
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: Oh, Macho Maaaan!
Message:
Look Jerry , I've been practising Knowledge for well over 25 years and I never felt that way. To me it's always been about consciousness. Religion just pisses me off.
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Date: Wed, Jul 19, 2000 at 10:26:08 (GMT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: The Indian Chief
Subject: Right, Chief
Message:
So while Maharaji was speaking, at length, about God this, God that, you just turned a deaf ear because you'd already determined it was only about consciousness. What's Maharaji to you in that case? He must be little more than a bag of wind who doesn't know what he's talking about. I'd straighten him out if I were you, chief.
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Date: Wed, Jul 19, 2000 at 13:07:47 (GMT)
From: The Motorcycle Cop
Email: This could be Heaven
To: Jerry
Subject: Right, Chief
Message:
How fucking old are you Jerry? My pitch would be 55-60?If you had listened for another 30 odd years like I have you may well have heard a few other little things about life. Why didn't you stay a miserable Catholic? Oh you did? Yeah I can see that...
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Date: Wed, Jul 19, 2000 at 14:37:19 (GMT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: The Motorcycle Cop
Subject: Right, Chief
Message:
Jeez, Chief Macho Motorcycle Cop, you make as much sense as a, as a, jeez, as an idiot. Who said anything about being Catholic? How did that get into the equation? And I'm very much aware of how Maharaji has changed his philosophy on life over the years, and how people who don't, can't, or won't think for themselves just go along with it without the slightest critique. Like you.
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Date: Thurs, Jul 20, 2000 at 01:38:37 (GMT)
From: The Construction Man
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: Right, Chief
Message:
Ok, Jerry so you think that I dont think, and I think you make assumptions . So where would that leave us? Here's one for you ; the reason I am still doing what you choose not to is BECAUSE I never stopped thinking.If something didn't make sense ,I took the time to contemplate it's significance,it's purpose and most importantly it's author. No blind faith for me.M gave me one thing.What I do with it is my business. Macho man......
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Date: Thurs, Jul 20, 2000 at 02:47:43 (GMT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: The Construction Man
Subject: Right, Chief
Message:
You never stopped thinking? You never even tried? C'mon, you heard all about Mr. Mind. Surely you must have. How's about 'listen to your heart'. Being a premie is all about feeling, not thinking. And you have the audacity to tell me you never stopped. When was thinking ever considered a thing of value to a premie, or to Maharaji, for that matter? Yeah, Maharaji was always telling us to think about it. Right. You're just passing wind now, dude.

I think you might want to use one of your tools on your head, Construction Man. Some screws have gone loose.

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Date: Thurs, Jul 20, 2000 at 05:54:48 (GMT)
From: The Fireman
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: Right, Chief
Message:
You simply never understood the concept nor mastered the use of yours. You seem driven Jerry , intense. Slow down, relax. Does it really matter whether I had the same understanding you did. Isn't that your big beef? are we not all different?
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Date: Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 12:31:30 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: A Very Active Man
Subject: Premies react to this site this way: I don't go
Message:
there because is all garbage. When asked how do they know if they never came they say that there is no reason for them to come and that they don't want to know anything about maharaji's private life. That is what cults do; they transform an individual in a nobody but a servant with blind faith. The need to be informed and to know is lost. Yes, I'm talking about those true devotees out there. Obviously shp, Dog, Elaine would never, never be considered good devotees by Elan Vital. We were told not to come here. maharaji said once that the internet sucks: This was before he decided it was good 'for his bussiness'.
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Date: Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 14:21:38 (GMT)
From: The Cisco Kid
Email: None
To: SB
Subject: Premies react to this site this way: I don't go
Message:
Hey Pancho! Who you kidding? You are the evil twin of Mr DreK?
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Date: Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 09:26:32 (GMT)
From: Felisnavidad
Email: None
To: sam
Subject: challenger
Message:
Since i am fluent in spanish, i will try, really try,nk.
to answer ?
You understand that,
in the El Spano' vernacular..
a question is pretensed by a ?. a what?
a question mark... signified by what?
something that looks like...what?
this....?????????????????????
Now I ask ya.
Who of you fort in viet nam?
who is of the homodipian fool?
My native language spells it 'mas grande chi chi's.
We call it El Senor.
as benjamin franklin once said, and I was there,
give me liberty or give me a double double. I DON'T CARE.
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Date: Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 12:23:02 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: Felisnavidad
Subject: FA: Is this person Zen? (nt)
Message:
Zen used 16 different nicks in the spanish forum.
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Date: Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 19:01:47 (GMT)
From: Hal
Email: None
To: SB
Subject: SB some creep posted as me to you down below!
Message:
I think we've got a real bongo on our hands . I wonder if there can be anything done to stop this person from harrasing you?

Walk tall SB

Hal

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Date: Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 20:20:54 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: Hal
Subject: As tall as I can be, by my grace.
Message:
Some loonies are doing the same at the spanish forum too. I bet you they feel real good about themeselves, the jewels. LOL

Tell the FA if you didn't post it. Premies were posting with my name over there...children...

Hi Hal!!

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Date: Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 16:36:48 (GMT)
From: Zen
Email: None
To: SB
Subject: Not
Message:
I can not be me. I am blocked (forum Spanish). Thanks to you.
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Date: Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 20:23:14 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: Zen
Subject: That is exactly why I blocked you. Names you used
Message:
are too many for me to take my time to go downstair to get them. You are not worth that. People are not stupid as you think they are. Have you noticed?
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Date: Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 16:39:29 (GMT)
From: Zen
Email: None
To: Irene
Subject: I am not 'felisnavidad' (nt)
Message:
Nt.
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