Forum V: Archive
Compiled: Mon, Jul 24, 2000 at 09:20:21 (GMT)
From: Jul 13, 2000 To: Jul 22, 2000 Page: 5 Of: 5


cq -:- EV has fingers in many pies! Still non-profit? -:- Sat, Jul 15, 2000 at 14:08:41 (GMT)
__ bill -:- EV has fingers in many pies! Still non-profit? -:- Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 00:40:40 (GMT)
__ __ G -:- Whois search on lifegevity -:- Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 01:57:30 (GMT)
__ G -:- Same EVs? -:- Sat, Jul 15, 2000 at 21:26:33 (GMT)
__ __ cq -:- Same EVs? -:- Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 14:37:22 (GMT)
__ SB -:- CQ, don't you get it?? -:- Sat, Jul 15, 2000 at 14:34:24 (GMT)
__ cq -:- or are they another bunch? -:- Sat, Jul 15, 2000 at 14:19:42 (GMT)
__ __ SB -:- Are you keeping a record of what you are finding? -:- Sat, Jul 15, 2000 at 14:37:14 (GMT)
__ __ __ cq -:- a record? Check this: -:- Sat, Jul 15, 2000 at 15:45:16 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ cq -:- I must have the wrong alien -:- Sat, Jul 15, 2000 at 16:04:40 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ SB -:- other alien -:- Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 03:21:17 (GMT)

JtF -:- Gee! This sounds somewhat familiar. -:- Sat, Jul 15, 2000 at 09:09:11 (GMT)
__ Jean-Michel -:- I also need foot massage! -:- Sat, Jul 15, 2000 at 10:22:32 (GMT)
__ __ Jethro -:- Jm, Hanzengives an excellent foot massage.nt -:- Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 01:25:02 (GMT)
__ __ Loaf -:- I also need an ego massage! -:- Sat, Jul 15, 2000 at 13:45:03 (GMT)
__ __ JtF -:- I also need foot massage! -:- Sat, Jul 15, 2000 at 10:34:04 (GMT)
__ __ __ SB -:- Longing? What does he mean with LONGING? -:- Sat, Jul 15, 2000 at 13:47:06 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ JtF -:- RE: My interpretation of Longing -:- Sat, Jul 15, 2000 at 18:55:46 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ SB -:- RE: My interpretation of Longing -:- Sat, Jul 15, 2000 at 21:05:14 (GMT)

Daneane -:- Mainstream Maharaji? -:- Sat, Jul 15, 2000 at 03:40:00 (GMT)
__ sb -:- Mainstream Maharaji? -:- Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 05:35:59 (GMT)

Jim -:- FA's (and everyone): Here's Bjorn as my penpal -:- Sat, Jul 15, 2000 at 01:54:02 (GMT)
__ Marianne -:- Bjorn's a twisted liar -:- Sat, Jul 15, 2000 at 02:00:35 (GMT)
__ __ Jethro -:- M is NOT part of the Rahdasoami line of masters -:- Sat, Jul 15, 2000 at 04:12:51 (GMT)
__ __ __ Anon -:- M is NOT part of the Rahdasoami line of masters -:- Sat, Jul 15, 2000 at 13:28:48 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Jethro -:- Re:Vairaganand -:- Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 01:52:26 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Anon -:- Re:Vairaganand -:- Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 20:34:13 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Jethro -:- Re:Vairaganand -:- Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 22:47:51 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Jean-Michel -:- You guys don't understand nuthin of porky's logic -:- Sat, Jul 15, 2000 at 22:42:39 (GMT)

Pauline Premie -:- Hello Again -:- Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 19:53:35 (GMT)
__ jules -:- Hello Again -:- Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 23:24:30 (GMT)
__ Premie Mike -:- I just got my smart card too -:- Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 20:01:30 (GMT)
__ __ Premie Silvana -:- I just got my smart card too!!! -:- Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 22:19:14 (GMT)
__ __ __ Premie Hal -:- I repent- I was wrong! Take me back Lord ! nt -:- Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 19:24:44 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ SB -:- I repent- I was wrong! Take me back Lord ! NEVER!! -:- Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 05:46:23 (GMT)

deca devotee -:- airplane plans that were illegally copied... -:- Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 19:36:01 (GMT)

cq -:- Prem 'Porkie' Pal Singh and the giant pork-pie -:- Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 19:16:32 (GMT)
__ Maharaji, aka God -:- How shall we recognize God? -:- Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 20:01:18 (GMT)

Rated-X -:- Best of Premie Posts -:- Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 16:04:57 (GMT)
__ SB -:- A JEWEL from the Spanish Forum -:- Sat, Jul 15, 2000 at 14:27:08 (GMT)
__ SB -:- Wait to see the ones from the Spanish forum!!! -:- Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 19:25:21 (GMT)
__ Jim -:- Great idea -:- Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 16:16:39 (GMT)

Salam -:- Why I hate you? -:- Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 14:46:41 (GMT)
__ salam -:- Brain Slugging Competetion -:- Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 04:13:33 (GMT)
__ __ SB -:- I got it! (nt) -:- Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 07:00:30 (GMT)
__ __ Selene -:- recent exiting - like taking a lid off a pressure -:- Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 05:50:11 (GMT)
__ __ __ ham -:- Normal intimate relationships -:- Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 20:10:40 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Selene -:- Normal intimate relationships -:- Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 03:01:22 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ ham -:- Superiority feelings, exactly, -:- Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 23:18:44 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- it's scary allright -:- Wed, Jul 19, 2000 at 03:49:41 (GMT)
__ SB -:- Why I hate you? -:- Sat, Jul 15, 2000 at 13:12:13 (GMT)
__ gErRy -:- Where is Ms Conception when you need her? -:- Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 15:21:42 (GMT)
__ __ SB -:- But gErRy, what are you thinking? -:- Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 01:24:26 (GMT)
__ __ Salam -:- Where is Ms Conception when you need her? -:- Sat, Jul 15, 2000 at 02:07:22 (GMT)
__ __ __ gerry -:- Where is Ms Conception when you need her? -:- Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 02:57:32 (GMT)
__ __ __ SB -:- It's normal what you feel. Gerry is wrong. -:- Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 01:33:37 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ gErRy -:- Sometimes I'm righter than wronger -:- Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 03:00:39 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ SB -:- Thanks for admitting it. ;) (nt) -:- Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 03:08:42 (GMT)

Current and future premie -:- How would you ex-premies -:- Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 03:40:02 (GMT)
__ hamzen -:- Where to start, and how long you got? -:- Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 23:21:54 (GMT)
__ Banjax -:- If you were Santa Claus... -:- Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 18:11:55 (GMT)
__ past premie -:- How would you ex-premies -:- Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 18:24:53 (GMT)
__ cq -:- a gift offered with no strings attached? LIAR (nt) -:- Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 17:41:33 (GMT)
__ Joe -:- How would you ex-premies -:- Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 17:15:40 (GMT)
__ __ ham -:- Spot on Joe, especially when the 'information -:- Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 20:28:23 (GMT)
__ Paul -:- You're forgetting something.. -:- Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 15:21:59 (GMT)
__ Way -:- How would you ex-premies -:- Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 14:55:01 (GMT)
__ __ SB -:- all so true -:- Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 03:00:19 (GMT)
__ __ Veep -:- Pinata Satsang--grrrrrrrrr -:- Sat, Jul 15, 2000 at 04:03:40 (GMT)
__ Sir David -:- How would you ex-premies -:- Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 10:14:12 (GMT)
__ __ Elaine -:- BTW, Sir Dave,I agree -:- Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 14:57:27 (GMT)
__ __ __ SB -:- Would you watch any more inspiring videos -:- Sat, Jul 15, 2000 at 21:36:49 (GMT)
__ __ __ P-man -:- Let me spell it out for you... -:- Sat, Jul 15, 2000 at 15:25:14 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Elaine -:- Let me spell it out for you... -:- Sat, Jul 15, 2000 at 17:24:23 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ P-man -:- Let me spell it out for you... -:- Sat, Jul 15, 2000 at 23:36:23 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ SB -:- Imaginary friends -:- Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 03:17:55 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Elaine -:- To you: When people tell the truth they are angry? -:- Sat, Jul 15, 2000 at 21:53:36 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Elaine -:- Was that you, yet again, above,SB ,posting wrong?n -:- Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 01:40:31 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Hal -:- Elaine -:- Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 19:33:28 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Elaine -:- Hal -:- Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 21:00:12 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ SB -:- I do too, Elaine. -:- Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 05:52:13 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ SB -:- Elaine: chew my ass k but don't anwer my F -:- Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 03:06:08 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ sb -:- Yes! Help, I'm losing my mind...(nt) -:- Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 02:43:14 (GMT)
__ __ __ cq -:- What's with this 'living Master' jive? -:- Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 18:43:16 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Elaine -:- Yeah,what is with the living master jive? -:- Sat, Jul 15, 2000 at 00:38:54 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Great post, Elaine -:- Sat, Jul 15, 2000 at 02:02:16 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Elaine -:- It isn't about communication, Elaine, is YOU (nt) -:- Sat, Jul 15, 2000 at 02:01:02 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Elaine -:- Why do you con't to not post your name,SB? -:- Sat, Jul 15, 2000 at 13:17:49 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ SB -:- Oh, I got it now...sorry -:- Sat, Jul 15, 2000 at 13:55:26 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- hey *I* get it SB -:- Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 05:21:43 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ SB -:- hey *I* get it SB -:- Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 06:50:36 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ SB -:- Why do you con't to not post your name,SB? -:- Sat, Jul 15, 2000 at 13:49:53 (GMT)
__ __ __ P-man -:- BTW, Sir Dave,I agree -:- Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 15:47:53 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Elaine -:- BTW, Sir Dave,I agree -:- Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 15:59:35 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ SB -:- For the ones that have nothing to say you mean? -:- Sat, Jul 15, 2000 at 13:58:27 (GMT)
__ SB -:- Maharaji has 'many worlds' -:- Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 07:28:18 (GMT)
__ Jim -:- And I've got a question for you -:- Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 06:29:48 (GMT)
__ __ Mike Tyson -:- And I've got a question for you -:- Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 08:31:55 (GMT)
__ __ __ Jim -:- I DID answer the question, you fool -:- Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 15:51:45 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Mike Tyson -:- I DID answer the question, you fool -:- Sat, Jul 15, 2000 at 04:22:01 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- God, you're stupid! -:- Sat, Jul 15, 2000 at 20:28:34 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Mike Tyson -:- The intelligent fool that you are! -:- Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 00:16:30 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jerry -:- Who is this? -:- Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 01:39:21 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ hal -:- Has a cat sprayed around here? -:- Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 18:14:12 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Iron Mike -:- Who is this? -:- Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 01:59:00 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jerry -:- Who is this? -:- Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 02:37:01 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ My name is Mr D Grace -:- Who is this? -:- Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 12:03:30 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jerry -:- Who is this? -:- Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 15:59:27 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Mike Tyson -:- Who is this? -:- Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 09:10:51 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jerry -:- Who is this? -:- Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 16:30:45 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ SB -:- Look who is talking a walnuts!! (nt) -:- Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 01:06:31 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ SB -:- I ment to say.... about walnuts!! (nt) -:- Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 01:40:59 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Mike Tyson -:- I ment to say.... about walnuts!! (nt) -:- Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 02:03:45 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ SB -:- Not bad for second language, right? Low life -:- Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 03:26:24 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Iron Mike -:- Not bad for second language, right? Low life -:- Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 12:06:39 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ SB -:- Attn:FA: Iron Mike: Why did you call me a chimp? -:- Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 20:26:00 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ SB -:- You were talking to me, not a to a chimp -:- Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 20:24:20 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Iron Mike -:- You were talking to me, not a to a chimp -:- Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 09:16:37 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ hal -:- You call yourself a premie, a lover ??'.. -:- Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 18:33:28 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Iron Mike -:- You call yourself a premie, a lover ??'.. -:- Wed, Jul 19, 2000 at 03:14:43 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Hal -:- Q:C: Queens Counciler ? Quaint Cockroach? -:- Wed, Jul 19, 2000 at 14:15:18 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Hal -:- Q:C: = Queensland Cat ? Quirky Cat? nt -:- Wed, Jul 19, 2000 at 14:19:39 (GMT)
__ la-ex -:- How would you ex-premies -:- Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 05:02:08 (GMT)
__ __ Current and future premie -:- Knowledge works -:- Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 05:25:03 (GMT)
__ __ __ cq -:- That's a capital 'H' for 'He' you use there -:- Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 18:56:15 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ cq -:- sorry - not Joe's analogy - P-man's (nt) -:- Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 18:58:35 (GMT)
__ __ __ Jerry -:- Knowledge works -:- Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 13:20:59 (GMT)
__ __ __ Hal -:- Knowledge works -:- Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 10:29:33 (GMT)
__ __ __ ex mug -:- He He He -:- Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 09:15:09 (GMT)
__ __ __ chr -:- Knowledge works -:- Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 07:28:32 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Jim -:- Paragraphs, chr? -:- Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 16:03:43 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ cq -:- Seconded. I couldn't read that last post. (nt) -:- Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 19:01:31 (GMT)
__ __ __ Monmot -:- Knowledge works -:- Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 05:37:03 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Sir Dave -:- I might also add -:- Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 10:19:37 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Current and future premie -:- It is a commitment because -:- Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 06:20:10 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ cq -:- and if they hear about 'Him' from Elan Vital ... -:- Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 19:06:16 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Monmot -:- It is a delusion because -:- Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 14:38:38 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Elaine -:- 'Same God,different crown' -:- Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 15:39:46 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Monmot -:- Certainement--Feel Free To Use Freely (nt) -:- Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 16:26:20 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ gErRy -:- 'Same programming, different premie' -:- Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 15:46:16 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Jerry -:- Like ex-mug said -:- Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 13:01:10 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- He isn't giving Anything -:- Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 07:10:13 (GMT)
__ VP -:- Great question -:- Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 04:09:10 (GMT)
__ __ gerry -:- Great question -:- Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 15:11:00 (GMT)
__ __ __ VP -:- Where can I get one? -:- Sat, Jul 15, 2000 at 02:32:03 (GMT)
__ __ Current premie -:- Great question -:- Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 04:35:51 (GMT)
__ __ __ Hal -:- Notice you dropped 'future premie'- good ! nt -:- Sat, Jul 15, 2000 at 11:21:00 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Current AND Future Premie -:- Notice you dropped 'future premie'- good ! nt -:- Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 07:43:33 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Hal -:- Notice you dropped 'future premie'- good ! nt -:- Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 10:52:53 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Current and Future One -:- Since Maharaji is the only one that has made -:- Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 03:35:57 (GMT)
__ __ __ VP -:- Great question -:- Sat, Jul 15, 2000 at 02:29:44 (GMT)
__ __ __ lotus Eater -:- gentle pity -:- Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 22:43:07 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Salam -:- Great question -:- Sat, Jul 15, 2000 at 16:18:46 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ SB -:- The worse one: He sold us GOD (nt) -:- Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 03:29:26 (GMT)

Deputy Dog -:- Meditation, the ego, and spiritual growth -:- Thurs, Jul 13, 2000 at 21:02:27 (GMT)
__ Hal -:- Meditation, the ego, and spiritual growth -:- Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 10:55:30 (GMT)
__ SB -:- Maharaji is full of ego: Watches, cars, blondes, -:- Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 07:48:39 (GMT)
__ __ G -:- gourmet catering, expensive clothes, -:- Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 17:36:31 (GMT)
__ __ __ SB -:- gourmet catering, expensive clothes,LOL -:- Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 05:59:07 (GMT)
__ Sir David -:- All theory which is flawed - where is the love? -:- Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 00:21:58 (GMT)
__ __ SB -:- Great Post! (nt) -:- Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 14:45:48 (GMT)
__ __ Hal -:- Very heartfelt stuff Thanks Dave NT -:- Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 10:58:00 (GMT)
__ __ Oliver -:- Great post Sir Dave (nt) -:- Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 10:23:40 (GMT)
__ Jim -:- Television, cocaine and coffee filters -:- Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 00:21:39 (GMT)
__ P-man -:- Meditation, the ego, and spiritual growth -:- Thurs, Jul 13, 2000 at 22:31:21 (GMT)
__ __ Jerry -:- Meditation, the ego, and spiritual growth -:- Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 02:26:59 (GMT)
__ Way -:- Re:Meditation, the ego, and spiritual growth -:- Thurs, Jul 13, 2000 at 21:40:13 (GMT)
__ __ VP -:- Another Gem from Ram Dass -:- Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 02:45:41 (GMT)
__ __ __ Hal -:- Another Gem from VP nt -:- Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 11:00:45 (GMT)

Robyn -:- Dear AG forum GOD! (OT) -:- Thurs, Jul 13, 2000 at 18:19:29 (GMT)
__ Forum God -:- Dear AG forum GOD! (OT) -:- Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 01:07:26 (GMT)
__ cq -:- Dear AG forum GOD! (OT-ish) -:- Thurs, Jul 13, 2000 at 20:34:28 (GMT)
__ __ Robyn -:- Dear AG forum GOD! (OT-ish) -:- Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 13:24:35 (GMT)

Coach -:- Alien Spaceship Found -:- Thurs, Jul 13, 2000 at 17:26:36 (GMT)


Date: Sat, Jul 15, 2000 at 14:08:41 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: EV has fingers in many pies! Still non-profit?
Message:
Have a look at what Elan Vital is now into -

click on link number 7 here

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Date: Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 00:40:40 (GMT)
From: bill
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: EV has fingers in many pies! Still non-profit?
Message:
who controls the web site? WHo has it registered under whose name. Anyone know how to find out?
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Date: Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 01:57:30 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: bill
Subject: Whois search on lifegevity
Message:
Go to

http://www.networksolutions.com/cgi-bin/whois/whois

and do a Whois search on lifegevity

lifegevity.com is registered to an Elan Vital Inc. in Centerville, OH

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Date: Sat, Jul 15, 2000 at 21:26:33 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: Same EVs?
Message:
I doubt that Rawat's Evan Vital, the fitness Elan Vital, Inc. in Centerville, Ohio, and the ElanVital Corporation in Taiwan are related to each other. Different companies can and do share the same name.

That's not to say that Rawat doesn't have his fingers into various pies, he is a 'successful' investor after all.

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Date: Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 14:37:22 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: G
Subject: Same EVs?
Message:
I doubt they're the same, G, BUT ... you never know (until you find out).

Perhaps I'll drop them an email - or how about us both doing that? (eggs in one basket syndrome?)

If they ARE connected to the EV that promotes the Maha's spiels, then that WOULD put a different spin on things.

Imagine: all those cheques made out to 'Elan Vital' ending up in the same place - guess who's pockets!

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Date: Sat, Jul 15, 2000 at 14:34:24 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: CQ, don't you get it??
Message:
Maharaji's instructor David Mancof came few years a go to the 'my' city and said: 'Maharaji wants you to put you thinking hats on' (word by word because I wrote it in note book!!) Get creative, and he was talking about helping in any way possible. These are PAMs following the desire of the master: Cause he needs money to propagate K cause he is such a good guy...

Bullshit!! IMO the money is diverted and laundered to some bank account and it's used to buy what the rotten BRAT wants that day!! Master my ass. He is just another one of those that think can dupe people forever and go free...We'll see that...later...

Premies are very creative when it comes to being servants, don't they?

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Date: Sat, Jul 15, 2000 at 14:19:42 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: or are they another bunch?
Message:
... and here's another one:

http://www.elanvital.com.tw/company/company.htm

Coincidence?

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Date: Sat, Jul 15, 2000 at 14:37:14 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: Are you keeping a record of what you are finding?
Message:
This is very INTERESTING stuff to keep record of, right? My hard drive is about to explode. I bought a cd burner. Lots of work to do... ;)
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Date: Sat, Jul 15, 2000 at 15:45:16 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: SB
Subject: a record? Check this:
Message:
A record? Well, thank goddess for the archives.

BTW, maybe we should all check out where the Maha gets his ideas from -

would you believe - an alien? - - -

find out more HERE

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Date: Sat, Jul 15, 2000 at 16:04:40 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: SB and all
Subject: I must have the wrong alien
Message:
according to this.
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Date: Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 03:21:17 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: other alien
Message:
Look, where do you found that crap? Too much freedom of expression. Waste. LOL

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Date: Sat, Jul 15, 2000 at 09:09:11 (GMT)
From: JtF
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Gee! This sounds somewhat familiar.
Message:
A contributor to a newsgroup (27 April 1998) said that Sri Chinmoy's disciples sit at his feet and massage his feet and legs and worship him as a divine incarnation. Only a few disciples talk to Sri Chinmoy directly. The relationship is strictly one of worship where the disciples regard Sri Chinmoy as the Avatar, Saviour of the Ages. Just a glance from the Guru is enough to satisfy the disciples. This approach makes parents wonder whether some of Sri Chinmoy's disciples are almost regarding him as God-incarnate, and whether they are stopping to question any of his teachings.

Replies: Sri Chinmoy has never claimed to be God. He is a very humble man with a deep love for mankind. Sri Chinmoy has gone beyond ego and isn't even vaguely interested in personal recognition. Nothing he says or does is for his own glory. His message is self-transcendence, that is, people can always improve on their achievements, even when they think they have reached the ultimate of their powers.

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Date: Sat, Jul 15, 2000 at 10:22:32 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: JtF
Subject: I also need foot massage!
Message:
would that make me a guru?

Maybe this guy has arthrosis or a tendinitis or something...

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Date: Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 01:25:02 (GMT)
From: Jethro
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Jm, Hanzengives an excellent foot massage.nt
Message:
fu
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Date: Sat, Jul 15, 2000 at 13:45:03 (GMT)
From: Loaf
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: I also need an ego massage!
Message:
My message is pure and selfless too. You can overcome any doubts you have.

If you cannot trust me - then you have not overcome yourself. You must over-come yourself.

Rubbing of the feets is very good for the ego of the rubber. The rubee has transcended the need to be rubbed. He offers himself for rubbing as a selfless act, and in the third person. By rubbing the rubber can erase whole lifetimes of bad karma.The rubbed one is already happy.

Rubbing alone is not enough. After rubbing, there must come kissing. Kissing without rubbing is meaningless, rubbing without kissing is incomplete. Incompleted actions are the root cause of bad karma - and so will directly cause the need for more rubbing.

Without kissing, the cycle cannot be completed.This is the nature of devotion. Something must be rubbed, and then something must be kissed.

Only after rubbing and kissing is the cycle completed.

When the cycle is completed, and all its karma (wheels) are in the proper place, then, and only then, can the cycle transport the rubber to his/her destiny.

This is the path which begins with rubbing, continues with kissing and ends in being taken for a ride.

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Date: Sat, Jul 15, 2000 at 10:34:04 (GMT)
From: JtF
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: I also need foot massage!
Message:
Maybe we should find a foot fetish group and direct them toward Rawat-since he's no longer God they would at least develop an understanding of 'longing'.
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Date: Sat, Jul 15, 2000 at 13:47:06 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: JtF
Subject: Longing? What does he mean with LONGING?
Message:
Do you remember any explanation M has given about that in his videos? Why longing for the Masteris real and necesary for premies/devotees if the experience is inside?
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Date: Sat, Jul 15, 2000 at 18:55:46 (GMT)
From: JtF
Email: None
To: SB
Subject: RE: My interpretation of Longing
Message:
My interpretation as a premie was that the longing for the experience was code word for begging.

My interpretation now that I think Rawat is a sub-human low-life scum is that if we were to not be having the experience we need to long for it more....once again this puts the burden on the student not the teacher...How convenient!!

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Date: Sat, Jul 15, 2000 at 21:05:14 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: JtF
Subject: RE: My interpretation of Longing
Message:
I asked because I can't remember very well what Mahalard said about it himself in a video I remember watching. What I remember is that he made it sound like 'you need' to feel the longing, like it's an indication of? DEVOTION!! A premie/devotee longs to be in the presence of his Lord, he longs darshan.

I would like to find out the name of the video where he says it.

Thanks JtF

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Date: Sat, Jul 15, 2000 at 03:40:00 (GMT)
From: Daneane
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Mainstream Maharaji?
Message:
Somewhere I read someone talking 'bout if M was all about dough, he could just do the Anthony Robbins thing and go with mainstream publishers. Not completely ignorant of the writer/publisher/big book chains, I wondered to myself how exactly that might go.

For instance, say M hit the big time and got his book published by one of the big wigs and time came for him to do a book signing tour. What kind of requests and preparations would that entail?

Lets see...if I was a bookchain and had received a letter from Elan Vital making such specifications; what type of response would I write to them?

__________________________

Dear Elan Vital,

We very much appreciate the opportunity to host new age writer, Maharaji, at a book signing of his new work, 'I am not Lord of the Universe', in our establishments. We've long worked with your publisher and gained a wonderful relationship between our two businesses.

It is not often, however, that we receive such detailed presentation requests from a third entity. We've given this matter a great deal of time and attention, but given the preciseness of each request and the length of requested preparation time, we just do not feel our stores would be able to handle it as you outlined.

Below are more specific reasons we cannot accomodate you. If you are able to modify these requests greatly, however, perhaps we can work together at a later date.

1) Preparation
Our stores open at 9am and usually book signings are in the evening. We would be unable to allow the contruction of a stage, living quarter and lighting apparatus either before the store opened or during business hours. Additionally, it would not be in our customers' best interest to rope off such a large portion of the store for a whole day.

2) Signings
Normally, authors sit at tables and sign books for people at the time of their appearance. It would be very difficult to track which customers came and asked to have their book signed for six months; before the author actually will sign it.

3) Gratitude
Yes, though authors are occasionally given gifts by customers, normally it would be some sort of sentimental item rather than an envelope filled with cash. Given that all purchases need be rung at our registers, money at the authors' table would be a serious loss prevention issue.
Most of our stores have cafes in them, so we could not permit the author to remove his shoes for kissing or anything else for that matter. Usually, most writers, extend a handshake and leave it at that.

4) Security
Though we do our best to provide adequate staff to assist the author in any means possible, I am afraid we could not allow a third party to screen people coming in the store that day. We are open to the public and unless someone disrupts the rights of another, they are welcome in our store. You will find we have returned all of the pictures you sent us. It is not our policy to ban anyone from events or disclose information about whether they have visited our stores.

5) Beverages
We do not serve alcohol on our premises and cannot allow our guest speakers to consume any alcohol while here either.

6) Facilities
Our restrooms are for all customers, we cannot have one just for the speaker. Nor would it be possible to install a golden seat.

We are sorry we are unable to accomodate you. We wish you well with your tour.

Sincerely,

Major book chain

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Date: Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 05:35:59 (GMT)
From: sb
Email: None
To: Daneane
Subject: Mainstream Maharaji?
Message:
4) Security
Though we do our best to provide adequate staff to assist the author in any means possible, I am afraid we could not allow a third party to screen people coming in the store that day. We are open to the public and unless someone disrupts the rights of another, they are welcome in our store. You will find we have returned all of the pictures you sent us. It is not our policy to ban anyone from events or disclose information about whether they have visited our stores.

Just like fair maharaji/ElanVital...NOT! They need to know everything about everybody before they consider letting you in.
Is his paranoia an indication of his guilty conscience? He knows he is wrong. He stretching the lie as much as he can, milking, so to speak, until can't do it anymore.

Beware EV/maharaji. Everybody's is looking at you too!

Fun post D. You are vacationing by now...

elanvital never rests. To much to worry about.

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Date: Sat, Jul 15, 2000 at 01:54:02 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: FA's (and everyone): Here's Bjorn as my penpal
Message:
Starts off, Bjorn emails me the following yesterday. The subject is 'Who is an idiot now?':

Re Jethros thread about Telephone converstaion with Ron
Maybe I am such an idiot that I cant read, Or what?
You wrote in a reply to me:

'Elan Vital said they contacted the two individuals who refused to cooperate. Then you say they didn't have addresses. If they contacted them, you idiot, they obviously had addresses. '
From what I understand of the FAQ, is EV contacted two individuals (Anth and another person) who refused to cooperate. Due to the lack of the cooperation, EV do not have the adress or name to the victims. That was my point. And that is according to my idiotic understanding, the proof that the accusations of EV lying, is false, and that the lying part was the ex-premies.

By the way, I originally wrote a post, I stated I had sexual feeling of the age of 14 (I was avtually 13) and grateful that such feelings never happened in my life again, In the same post I also wrote I was myself a victim. Several times this post has resulted in numerous posts accusing me of being a pedophile. That is why I had to change mye alisases and everytime I was dicovered and outed, I changed again

Do you support such behavior? (You have also been one of the persons writing about this) Premies are told they are guests at the Forum, is this standard proceedure to treat a guest by the human race expremies? If a premie posts he normally is called an idiot or worse.

I once suggestet in a Tread that only people with registred passwords should be accepted to post at the Forum. I wrote that this would increas the individual responsibility and that probably the Forum would be more decent. Immediately this tread was deleted. I register that you for other reasons suggest the same. I hope this might be done. As it is now, It is clearly sencorship, and as I once wrote, sensorship is only for those who has something to hide. One thing is to give the image of open dicussion, completely another thing is that if you have different opinions you will be blocked. IMHO expremies become very visible like a cult due to this. .

In my naivity, I wanted to post here for the reason to find the thruth about something. About that thing I found out was a lie made by expremies: I originally hoped that human beings could discuss things as human beings and not as enemies belonging to different sect or cults or whatever? This has to my experience never happened at the Forum.

I realise now that one of the supidest thing I have done in my life, was to read and post at the Forum. I only can say, I was rather upset originally by one post made by Marianne, where she wrote it warmed her hearth to read about the Jagdeo case. My intensity started then. And as I was l wrongfully accused to be a pedophile, which of course hurt me a lot, I could not let it go. For the sake of fairness to premies, I think you should not allow premies to post and that posters should be registred.

That is it, I replied to you this way as I am blocked, which is a relief, and I will come over it.Anyway I had some good laughs

Bjørn the idiot with the many aliases (Ruphus)

To which I replied:

Bjorn,

Do me a favour and leave me alone, okay? I find you thick as a brick and impossible to talk with.

Jim

Then he responds:

No problems, I will leave you alone. I am thicker than a brick. But if I ever meet you face to face, you will never never forget it..

Bjørn

and I say:

Listen, asshole,

Your little threat below is enough to have your server cancel your account and might even be enough to have you charged criminally. If I ever hear from you again -- anywhere, and that includes the forum -- I'll report you.

Jim

to which Bjorn replies again:

What are you talking about. What threat? How stupid is it possible to be? I honestly feel sorry for you. You are sick. Most people in the Forum got that. Please leave ME alone.
Otherwise you can threat me as much as you like, I am not and never will be afraid of you. You are so pathetic. And I will use the Forum if I so like. Even if I am blocked from the cult site.

Bjørn

I'm going to have Bjorn have his last word here but, like I said, if I ever hear from him again I'm going to send his email to his server and maybe, just maybe, others. Let them decide what's a threat or not.

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Date: Sat, Jul 15, 2000 at 02:00:35 (GMT)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Bjorn's a twisted liar
Message:
Well this takes the cake. Anyone who knows me here knows what Bjorn has said about me is totally false. Just goes to show he's a demented freak.

Marianne

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Date: Sat, Jul 15, 2000 at 04:12:51 (GMT)
From: Jethro
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: M is NOT part of the Rahdasoami line of masters
Message:
I just remembered another thing Ron said in the phone call. He said, adamantly, that M is not anything to do with the Rahdasaomi line of masters.
I asked Ron what he thought of Professor Lane)who has writtem extensively on the subject.
Ron became quite(I think he was going inside) and said that Professor Lane had made an 'academic mistake'.

Jethro

Note to all: I know this is not directly conected with this thread, but what the hell....I need to puke all this chanatrish(middle-east slang for popycock)out.

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Date: Sat, Jul 15, 2000 at 13:28:48 (GMT)
From: Anon
Email: None
To: Jethro
Subject: M is NOT part of the Rahdasoami line of masters
Message:
(Just wanted to clear David Lane on this one.)

Maharaji is indeed not from the Radhasoami line of masters, neither has Prof. Lane ever said this.

David Lane actually stated that Shri Hans' guru was the Sarupanand of the Advait Mat group which is quite distinct from the Radhasoami's in location, lineage, and some other ways.

However the teachings and practices of Radhasoami in many ways strikingly resemble those of early DLM and Advait Mat.

Maharaji himself is, I believe, correct in representing Shri Hans as having had an association with Sarupanand of Advait Mat.

What is unclear, however, is whether Sarupanand really meant for Hans Ji to inherit the guruship from him, since the Advait Mat documents say quite clearly that he 'proclaimed' someone called Vairaganand as his successor.

No premie has really sensibly commented to me on this discrepency apart from to point out that the Advait Mat book (about Sarupanand and Vairaganand) was written after Sarupanands death by those who wished to endorse Vairaganand as the legitimate successor. Thus the writers are biased to ignore Shri Hans. In fact I can find no mention of his name anywhere in their literature.

Conversely, the early DLM history DOES mention Vairaganand (thus neatly proving the association with Sarupanand of Advait Mat) but again, they are of course themselves equally heavily biased and portray him as a scoundrel who went of with the missions wordly goods. They add that Shri Hans, having no such interests in wordly affairs, split from the group to do his own thing.

Several ex-premies seem to be unclear about this and keep stressing the connection with Radhasoami. This is understandable since the whole known history is somewhat vague and of course the similarities with early DLM, as I said, are indisputable.

The main confusion stems from the fact that the Radhasoami's had a guru also called Swarupanand at that time, and one is tempted to assume that this was the Sarupanand who was Shri Hans' teacher.
This would not seem to be the case though.

To make matters even more complicated, David Lane did tell me in an email that he was informed in India (by a DLM mahatma I think) that Shri Hans had however been initiated ALSO (presumably before his assoiation with Sarupanand of Advait Mat) by Sawan Singh, who was indeed a famous Radhasoami guru. So Lane does claim a connection between Shri Hans and Radhasoami, but it is not a matter of lineage.

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Date: Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 01:52:26 (GMT)
From: Jethro
Email: verag@jethro666.screaming.net
To: Anon
Subject: Re:Vairaganand
Message:
Your post reminded me of a mahatma I met about 10 years ago.
This man was a devotee of Sarupanad and told me that he knew Hans who was a 'satsangi'.
The mahatma told me that when sarupanand(not Swarupanad) died there were four of his followers that set up their own missions.
He spoke of his guru as Maharaji(as many Indians with gurus do).
I asked him about the techniques he taught and they were the same. He didn't seem to mind discussing the techniques with me.
I went to the ashram(here in the UK) a few times.
When his maharaji came to London, I was invited to meet him(maharaji) and get darshan. The mahatma told me that his maharaji spoke 99 languages and knew everthing(sound familiar?).
Anyway when I went to meet his maharaji who was told that I was a devotee of Balyogeshwar(one of m's Indian titles), I met this elderly man who said to me in an extremely broken English, 'Contiue to meditate and you will realise god'.
It was interesting to notice that the greetings used between the followers was 'jaisatchitanand'.
Also there were mahatmas with tyhe same names as m's mahatmas(like gurucharand and gitanand..).
Also I was offered 'knowlkedge', which I refused because I explained that I already had k.

I am pretty sure that the maharaji here was Vairaganand but I will check.

When I get the time, I will go and see the mahatma again and interview him and also ask to interview his maharaji.

If anyone wants to suggest any questions for me to ask then let me know by email(above).

regards jethro

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Date: Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 20:34:13 (GMT)
From: Anon
Email: None
To: Jethro
Subject: Re:Vairaganand
Message:
Hey Jethro, that sounds really interesting. Keep us posted about what you find out!
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Date: Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 22:47:51 (GMT)
From: Jethro
Email: forevermanmut@jethro666.screaming.net
To: Anon
Subject: Re:Vairaganand
Message:
Today I went to the ashram of Guru Shri Shri 108 Shri Swami Darshan Puran Anand Ji Maharaj who is the 5th master in the line.
Vairag Anand was the third.(not sure what the 108 means, maybe it means 108 shris?)
I spoke with a couple of ashramees there and shared jscas with them.
The mahatma who I met 11 years ago was not there, but I will be seeing him in a few weeks.
The inetersting thing is that the present guru(named above), my mahatma friend and hans were all devotees of Swami Swarup Anand and knew each other.
I will do my best to get information about what happened....but it will only be their version.
Intersting enough I mentioned to the ashramee that I used to be a devotee of the son of hans, and the ashramee said 'oh you mean satpal'. I said 'no balyogeshwar'. He hadn't heard of him.
Anyway email me any questions that you want me to ask(email above).

Regards Jethro

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Date: Sat, Jul 15, 2000 at 22:42:39 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Anon
Subject: You guys don't understand nuthin of porky's logic
Message:
Shiv Dayal, Sarupanand, Shri Hans and Himself are the Real (recent) Ones.

All other so-called gurus, Radhawawa, Sant maha etc are all fake prentending they know something when they don't.

That's the Truth. We exes and D. Lane can say whatever we want, we're all lost in the darkness of gross ignorance.......

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Date: Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 19:53:35 (GMT)
From: Pauline Premie
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Hello Again
Message:
First I wanted to make it clear, that yes, I was, and I am still, a 'real looker,' so thank you very much. I guess somebody remembers me from my days in the ashram, I mean from my days in the shelter protecting me from death and destruction caused by the dangerous 'drug culture', which existed from 1971, but ended in 1983, when, by the grace of the world's most selfless pilot, by the grace he who does not even own the $20 million Gulfstream IV jet he flies, Maharaji closed them down because they were no longer necessary to protect us.

I was going through some old Divine Times the other day, just to find more proof that Maharaji has not changed his message on iota from when he arrived here in 1971, except to change some terms and eliminate some concepts. For example, printed in the April, 1980 edition of the Divine Times, a publication of Elan Vital, is an except of a speech the Speaker who never claimed to be God, gave in Hialeah, Florida, at DECA, where followers of Maharaji were participating in a synchronized fashion to convert a Boeing 707 jetliner for Maharaji's use, but which he did NOT own. It was owned by a separate corporation, even the gold toilet.

Anyhow, by the grace of Maharaji, who is an ordinary person, I was there on Christmas Day, 1979, and heard him say the following, as reprinted in the Elan Vital publication:

But I mean the devotee's prayer to Guru Maharaj Ji always is, 'Oh Guru Maharaj Ji, you are all-powerful, you are all merciful. Save me. Give me that help that I need in my life.'

Now, isn't that just the most amazing thing? But see, you have to have that understanding in order to understand what Maharaji (who, by his supreme understanding, eliminated the 'Guru' in his name a mere 15 or so years after her arrived in the West (in no time, really)), is saying. Nothing in that statement would indicate to anyone that Maharaji was claiming to be God or a Savior, or a Supreme Being, and nothing even suggests that his followers should pray to him. It's just confused ex-premies who would ever say such nonsense, and now that Maharaji has eliminated the worlds 'guru' and 'devotee,' all those cultural misunderstandings, which Western followers may have gotten because they are so deficient and stupid, have been eliminated.

Also, I wanted to say that any connection between me and anyone else who posts on this forum is completely coincidental, untrue, false, and anyone who thinks I am connected in any way to any miserable ex-premie, lacks that understanding, and certainly is not having the experience of that love.

I am so blissed out that there is a Satellite Event tomorrow. Now that I spent $30 for a Smartcard, I do not have to be interviewed, frisked, or go through a metal detector before entering the hall.

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Date: Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 23:24:30 (GMT)
From: jules
Email: cosmic@netactive.co.za
To: Pauline Premie
Subject: Hello Again
Message:
hi..i've only just logged onto this forum..your name was there at the top of the list..yep, i am a premie, but with a love for other teachers too...anyway, maybe you could sort of guide or introduce me to this chat forum/club whatever...if so please reply to jules...cosmic@netactive.co.za...thanx in advance...ps..i am new to the whole internet thing, so bear with me...
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Date: Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 20:01:30 (GMT)
From: Premie Mike
Email: None
To: Pauline Premie
Subject: I just got my smart card too
Message:
and like you I look forward to the next time I can hear M. He's so incredible to listen to but like you intimated in your post, you have to have the ears to hear.
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Date: Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 22:19:14 (GMT)
From: Premie Silvana
Email: None
To: Premie Mike
Subject: I just got my smart card too!!!
Message:
Now I recognize that the fact I have it in my purse, every time I look at it (many) reminds me HOW special I am. Just like Lord Maharaji says; we premies/devotees/servants for free must feel special because we are the ones He have chosen to play His Divine game. GoD Almighty took a human form to guide me through life. So many reasons to feel special. Can you believe that we have His Grace and taht He allows us to kiss God's feet, His?? How much more special can we premies be? It doesn't get better than that. No way. Exes are jelous people because they are like fallen angels and got thrown out of Maharaji's Kingdom. He's is so full of mercy. He is my breath, imagine that. That is mercy...Where can you go if you leave His Lotus Feet? Down, nowhere, I'll go crazy, etc.! So, the thought of leaving just scares me; I better stay, just in case...

The smart card says that I belong to the club of God who is walking among us!! That just blows my mind away, by His Grace. He is my God, and nobody can change that, not even me. Some say because I'm a cult member, I don't listen to that. Where is my mind? I got to go. I think I lost something.

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Date: Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 19:24:44 (GMT)
From: Premie Hal
Email: None
To: Premie Silvana
Subject: I repent- I was wrong! Take me back Lord ! nt
Message:
joke
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Date: Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 05:46:23 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: Premie Hal
Subject: I repent- I was wrong! Take me back Lord ! NEVER!!
Message:
Silvana is my alter ego. So much brainwashing.... sometimes it gets out of control....

Smart Card. Look at the name!!

maharaji, you are a piece of crap!! You lier.

Hi Hal!

Portugues. The same that is spoken in Brasil or similar?

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Date: Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 19:36:01 (GMT)
From: deca devotee
Email: None
To: cynthia from vermont
Subject: airplane plans that were illegally copied...
Message:
Cynthia-not sure if you are still visiting the epo site or not, but a while ago you posted about a woman at deca that was illegaly copying aviation documents at deca.
Was she a very short woman?
If it was who I thnk it was,it may have helped start a business illegaly.
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Date: Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 19:16:32 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Prem 'Porkie' Pal Singh and the giant pork-pie
Message:
Elan Vital claims (presumably on behalf of their 'non-leader' Maharaji) that he never claimed to be God.

Witness:

« …. But then comes service, because there's satsang, service and meditation. That's
meditation, and then comes service. Now what is the part ? Why do we even need to
do service ? I mean, where does service fit in ? And it's very fine. It's very beautiful,
but very fine. Because the whole idea, the whole basis, is on surrender. And if we
really and truly surrender ourselves, then what do we become ? We become a
servant. And it's not a servant of Mr Joe Blow ; but it's servant of Lord, servant of
Almighty.
If we surrender ourselves, then we become servant, and when we become
servant, then we can do service. And if we have realized, it just all fits, see ?'

Excerpt of Guru Maharaj Ji's Satsang in Lisbon, Portugal, may 14, 1976. In « Elan Vital »,
published by Divine Light Mission, Denver, Colorado. Volume II Issue 2, Summer 1978

.........................................................
'If we have realised' he says. Realised what? That he's not just another 'Joe Blow' like the
rest of us? So, once again he's claiming divinity; he's claiming that 'Almighty', 'Lord' and
'Guru Maharaj Ji' mean the same thing. After all, the 'service' was done TO him and FOR
his benefit.

And EV say he never claimed this. What a bunch of pork-pie merchants.

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Date: Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 20:01:18 (GMT)
From: Maharaji, aka God
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: How shall we recognize God?
Message:
Remember: we are part of Him who has manifested Himself as Guru and who has come into this earth, and now we have to be one with Him. We have to completely merge and make our souls one with Him because He is perfect.

So that love God requires. Nothing else. But those people are only able to give love who are determined to shed their forehead on His Lotus Feet. People who have become proud go to that imperfection from where they never return. But the one who is determined to shed his forehead of the Lotus Feet goes to that perfection from where he never returns.

And my guru also taught me first of all this thread of love. And then I was able to realize the importance of guru, this embodiment of love. So if you go to Him, ask. Ask and it shall be given, knock and it shall be opened unto you. So if you have asked for Knolwedge, very good. This is the only thing which increases your love.
-Maharaji, Dec. 10, 1971, Prem Nagar Ashram, on his fourteenth birthday.
`
`
`
`
So how are we going to recognize God as He comes on the earth? Are you going to ask to see His identity card or passport? See, if it says, 'Name...God. Occupation...Generator, Operator, Destroyer.' This is foolish! Or are you going to recognize Him only if He fits in with your mental picture of Him, what you have picked up from the scriptures and other impressions, what you imagine Jesus or Krishna looked like? But the test of the Perfect Master will be that which is undeniable to everybody and this is the experience of himself which he can give, and this is the true Knowledge.
-Maharaji, Apr. 19, 1972, Johannesburg, South Africa
`
`
`
`
No, Maharaji never at any time claimed to be God. It is acknowledged that many people at the time were looking for a messianic type figure. That Maharaji was not such a figure disappointed some people.
-Elan Vital Website, July 2000

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Date: Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 16:04:57 (GMT)
From: Rated-X
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Best of Premie Posts
Message:
I saw some real winner posts down below 2 days ago, from Pauline Premie and Simon Satsang. Things like licking m toilet bowl, scrubing his driveway with a tooth brush. Most premie posts are just as good and should be included in a special section on this web site called 'Best of Premie Posts'. I would like for aspirants to read them as well as the media, they would have a field day with those. This would also be a good way to get rid of stupid premies, any garbage they post will be kept permanently to show everyone their warped way of thinking. It would also speed up EV's inevitable decline. Who's in charge of this web site anyway? Jean Michel, Jim?
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Date: Sat, Jul 15, 2000 at 14:27:08 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: Rated-X
Subject: A JEWEL from the Spanish Forum
Message:
CARMELA
Email: Ninguno
Para: Todos
Tema: EL CONOCIMIENTO
Mensaje:
HAY ALGO QUE SIEMPRE ME A LLAMADO LA ATENCION DE LOS PREMIS QUE HABLAN MAL DE MAHARAJI, NUNCA SE REFIEREN AL CONOCIMIENTO NUNCA HABLAN MAL DEL CONOCIMIENTO, ESO ME PARECE QUE ES UN INDICIO DE QUE DE UNA U OTRA FORMA ALGO TIENEN QUE HABER SENTIDO ALGUNA VEZ, Y POR ESO SOLO PUEDEN HABLAR MAL DEL DADOR Y NO DE LO QUE SE LES DIO, LO UNICO QUE VEO ES QUE SIEMPRE EL TEMA ES QUE EL LES QUIERE SACAR LA PLATA, LA PLATA A PASADO A SER LO MAS INMPORTANTE EN SUS VIDAS, LA VERDAD ES QUE ES UNA PENA QUE SERES HUMANOS A LOS QUE SE LES A DADO LA OPORTUNIDAD DE SENTIR EL REGALO DE LA VIDA SE HAYAN QUEDADO ATRAPADOS EN EL VIL DINERO, PASANDO HACER ESTA LA RAZON POR LA CUAL SE ESTAN PERDIENDO DE EXPERIMENTAR LO UNICO QUE LES PERTENECE, UN ALIENTO A LA VEZ,LO SIENTO POR USTEDES, PERO NO SE OLVIDEN QUE AUN ESTAN VIVOS Y QUE ESA OPORTUNIDAD SIGUE AHI COMO EL PRIMER DIA Y LA PLATA ES SOLO PLATA NO TE VA A COMPRAR UN SOLO ALIENTO MAS.

Translation: I will do my best because this person rights very weird.

There is something that always have called my attention of premies who speak bad about Maharaji, they never refer to Knowledge never speak bad about Knowledge, that looks to me like an indication that in one or other way, the have felt something, and for that, they can only speak bad of the giver not about waht was given, the only thing I see is that the theme always is about HIM wanting to take your money, the money have become the most important thing in your lives, the truth is it's sad that human being who were given the opportunity to feel the gift of life have become trapped on the evil money, becoming that the reason why they are missing to experiment the only thing that belong to them, one breath at a time, I am sorry for you, but don't forget that you are still alive and that that opportunity is still there like and the money is only money is not going to buy one more breath.

This person did not write one single period; I translated like that. premies talk bad about Maharaji. hmm...

What follows is her answer to my long post:

Fecha: Viernes, Julio 14, 2000 a las 23:46:25
Autor: Carmela
Email: Ninguno
Para: Irene
Tema: Se discute Maharaji aqui

Mensaje:

COMO EL, MUY BIEN DIJO,.... YO..... NO PUEDO REGAR LAS PIEDRAS....

Translation: Like he, very well said,....I....cannot water the stones....

Mind is set: What do you answer? Nothing? When I answer they cannot relate at all to anything I say, or don't want to. They don't come to the forums to talk but to throw BEAUTIFUL concepts, by the grace of their Master Very sad.

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Date: Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 19:25:21 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: Rated-X
Subject: Wait to see the ones from the Spanish forum!!!
Message:
Is in my To Do list. One from yesterday is simply unbelievable. Funny, but not so much: It's sad because people are living every day under the spell M. Shame!!
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Date: Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 16:16:39 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Rated-X
Subject: Great idea
Message:
I've always thought that humour is a great weapon against a cult which is, like all of them, afraid and unable to laugh at itself. The webmaster is Brian. I'm not really sure what that means anymore except that he's the one who you have to talk with. Email him.
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Date: Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 14:46:41 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: see below
To: Maharaji
Subject: Why I hate you?
Message:
Why did I do it?

Some days ago I asked Jeeves about maharaji, courious to see what result(s) I will get. Now I do not know if I am glad that I did or not? I am certainly amazed that there is so much material on him, more than that, to find an ex-premie site on the web.
I recieved knowledge around 1977, 1982-3 was my cut off, not only from him but everyone else, I took it on myself that I will never ever turn my face that way again, but now I break that oath, as I can see that I was not the only one neither the last one. Defenitly there will be others. I do not want to critise new premies or even a 1982wish one, they are free to do what they want. The question is : looking at M as a bussiness man you would say that after, what ?, 25 to 30 years his business has and is going backword, if i was in his position i will simply sell it with all its assets to the nearest bidder, and have a good retirement.

My grudge with M is the fact that I trusted him with my whole being, I made him everthing and above everthing, he was my all, my loard to me. In responce, he shat, pissed and spat on me, but i still forgave him, he was THE master.

What turned me away is his betrayal. In his hands I was a child and he dropped me, a crstal that he shattered, a heart that he broak and perhaps a human that he abused.

I read the article on this site resignation of ------, i think that takes a lot of courage and self questioning.

My problem is that i do not have any more respect for the man, as an individual or as a mickymouse master. I belive if he has the slightest bit of dignity and self respect, he would come out in the open and say he was mistaken, that DLM was no more than a contraption of the mind. If he had any respect for ex or current premies, maybe he would call for a reconciliation process, but no, instead he publishes a bullshit web site and put his resume on it, what a joker, I have beter resume than him. Did he really finish St Joseph school, I dought it. If it was not for us paying for his planes and training, he will be selling papadums in some back street in Delhi.

Maharaji do not think that me or the person reading this message are ideats. I know that you send your menons from EV to see and monitor this site. I tell that ideat of yours to pass you this message, that is, when he grows some ball :

I challange YOU to come out and say that you are sorry.
I challange YOU to ask us for forgiveness .
I challange YOU to tell us who you really are.
I challange YOU to show gratitude.
I challange YOU to show that you are humble.

I did all that. Things that you talked about.

I hate you maharaji because you took my love away.
I hate you maharaji because I can not love again.
I hate you because I am afraid to love again.

You being the master of the largest ego in the universe, I dought it if you have the balls to do it, but lets make it between me and you, this is my e-mail, send me a message :

salam_au@iprimus.com.au

I promise to read it.

yours

Salam

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Date: Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 04:13:33 (GMT)
From: salam
Email: salam_au@iprimus.com.au
To: gErRy
Subject: Brain Slugging Competetion
Message:
Gerry,

Long time ago, I gave up brain slugging competition and I am not about to start it now, you are definetly entitled to what you think is rigth, same with me. What I wrote is what I have been through.

When I was a premie I worshipped the bastered with all my heart, he destroyed it, would you love again and trust others with your life if it happened to you? I wont, and even did it without knowing.

Maybe you should know I am still under psychiatric tretement, I am not ashamed of it, I say it to anyone that really wants to know.

Perhaps for you it is easy, perhaps you have other hang ups, to me it is hard to stop gm from comming into my head, that is how I am, take it as is.

As SB said it and god know how many others are out there will agree, it hurts? So,stop beeing a bigit and let people be.

If you want to know who I bumpped into, use your intuition, I will help you. This site.

Also, if I want to stay or go is my bussines, I am free and can fly. At least I know what I want, I will stick with it if it means my life, you seem to change your mind quick, yet I seem to remember a song that goes like this

'sorry is the hardest word'

Do you know why?

LOL, take care

Salam.

SB my e-mail is on top.

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Date: Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 07:00:30 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: salam
Subject: I got it! (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 05:50:11 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: salam and SB
Subject: recent exiting - like taking a lid off a pressure
Message:
cooker!!

I posted to SB below, in the thtead started by someone calling themselves;
Current and future premie -:- How would you ex-premies -

I said a lot to her about how bad it was for me to not take seriously ENOUGH how hard it is to go through that critical recebt ex stage of leaving the cult.

Some of the people here have been away from Maharaji for over a decade. I can't be inside their heads but there has to be a difference between that and being newly exited. And also,
if as is often the case - and was for me - leaving M coincides with family or marital crisis it can really make you question your ability to be able to have normal intimate relationships.
The rest I said in the other post. Best of luck to you.

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Date: Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 20:10:40 (GMT)
From: ham
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: Normal intimate relationships
Message:
Good point,
my ten year journey fully away, was finally precipitated by my experiences of socialising & having mates without k etc and boy did I have some learning to do.
Talk about fucked up socialization processes.

The one premie I'm still in contact with came up with an absolute gem the other day. Admitting that k and gm were integral to her life, it didn't strike her as odd that she NEVER shares or talks about her beliefs/experiences etc with anyone, even premies. Imagine anything THAT important to you and NEVER sharing anytrhing with anyone about it. Truly bizarre, and the psycho damage..........!

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Date: Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 03:01:22 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: ham
Subject: Normal intimate relationships
Message:
You said, about the premie you talk to, she:
NEVER shares or talks about her beliefs/experiences etc with anyone, even premies.
Imagine anything THAT important to you and NEVER sharing anytrhing with anyone
about it. Truly bizarre, and the psycho damage..........!

She reminds me of something:
I tend to hate these slogans but am reminded of one: 'you are as sick as the secrets that you keep'
Perhaps she knows somehow if she shares this important secret it will lose it's power over her?

Things I would notice with me, even a short time ago, I would think thoughts or feel feelings of superiority, even after leaving and wanting to leave it all behind. Thoughts that I knew something secret. Now I'm very happy to say that learning on my own is hard and wonderful and MUCH better, no matter what.

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Date: Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 23:18:44 (GMT)
From: ham
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: Superiority feelings, exactly,
Message:
isn't it frightening how that premie mask is so loaded with insecurity that that mask is invisible to them.

And like you, what a relief to re-join the human race. Mind you it's taken a lot of comments from people close to me to get me to see it!

UUregh, frightening.

As for the premie I know, she's so sensitive that any perceived aggression attack, criticism or whatever really fucking hurts her niceness, frightening in a way, like kids in nursery school on their first days. And what's really worrying is that that part of her was what I loved about her so much when I first knew her.

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Date: Wed, Jul 19, 2000 at 03:49:41 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: ham
Subject: it's scary allright
Message:
Especially after having to look back on what I have done to myself.
But it's mostly over.
And YOU get to do the festival in a few weeks no?
I copped out, couldn't handle the travel arrangements. Opted for southern CA. instead. It was easier. At least it will be at least up to 20 degrees cooler and the ocean.
But I wish I could be there. Have fun.
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Date: Sat, Jul 15, 2000 at 13:12:13 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: Why I hate you?
Message:
I hate you maharaji because you took my love away.
I hate you maharaji because I can not love again.
I hate you because I am afraid to love again.

Hey, you read minds: That is JUST what I think...

Thanks for your posts. I left Maharaji after 25-26 years, last year and since I was involved longer than you you can imagine my anger. Maharaji doesn't answer anybody and he won't answer you either: Maharaji is a coward!. Why he doesn't answer? He believes he is God and why should God have to answer to anybody?

Such a horrible experience is that to discover that we threw away so much for a deluded ignorant person just because he had the techniques to trap us. After all, the way he 'sold' us K is what made us stay and the promise of Nirvana was not it, but that he convinced us that he knew what he was talking about.

Everybody have the right to believe waht they want doesn't apply here. Maharaji is the lider of a cult and he is responsible for abusing the trust people put on him. People come to Maharaji with good intentions, but Maharaji's intention are far grom good. He traps people little by little and the realization of Knowledge is to become his servant. That is my problem; he hides from people his intentions, when in reality if he had explain straight what he wanted from me I would have never joined his cult. I didn't wanted to be brainwashed and conditioned to believe all the concepts that I came to believe from listening to him so fucking much.

Yes, you are right: Somebody from his office or himself read these pages. Maharaji, you own me and others a bunch of explanations!! Can you begin to speak the truth once and for all that all you wanted was to feel special playing 'God' because it was and is profitable for you to do so? That is the TRUTH about Maharaji.

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Date: Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 15:21:42 (GMT)
From: gErRy
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: Where is Ms Conception when you need her?
Message:
Oh come on now willya Salam?

I hate you maharaji because you took my love away.
I hate you maharaji because I can not love again.
I hate you because I am afraid to love again.

Ok, so you lapsed into verse here, we all do at times. Some, like Larkin, make a vice of it. Anyway, what's with the 'can't love again' part? Move on, get over it, get a life...oops.

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Date: Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 01:24:26 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: gErRy
Subject: But gErRy, what are you thinking?
Message:
People do that eventually, at their own time, not just because gerry can say it...

What kind of devotee were you makes a difference too!! I have trouble trusting and loving now, yes.

I don't understand how you can say that: You offended me.

I know, what do you care beside the ones you 'love' anyway? People ARE hurting, get it!! I am.

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Date: Sat, Jul 15, 2000 at 02:07:22 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: gErRy
Subject: Where is Ms Conception when you need her?
Message:
It does look like poetry, now that I look at it, but it is real. Maybe I sounded bit of a chicken, maybe you should know more.

In the begining of last year I was diagnosed with seveer depression, it happened over night. I had to be admitted to a psychiatric hospital, through the diagnoses many things came out, some physical others mental. Of the mental, I found out that I had fear of love, or to be specific fear of accepting others, call it lovephobia if you like, it effected (and still does) how I interacted with the world.

Since last year I was under constant screw-tiny as to my behavior, I have lived with people that cared for me because I could not take care of myself. Only in the last few weeks I have decided perhaps it is time for the little bird to fly and hey, guess who I bumped into.

I know I carry unwanted baggege with me still, all I can say is being here seems to have at last opened my eyes to what is it that I walked away from and thank you for putting me right from the start.

Salam

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Date: Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 02:57:32 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: Where is Ms Conception when you need her?
Message:
In the begining of last year I was diagnosed with seveer depression, it happened over night[!}. I had to be admitted to a psychiatric hospital, through the diagnoses many things came out, some physical others mental. Of the mental, I found out that I had fear of love, or to be specific fear of accepting others, call it lovephobia if you like, it effected (and still does) how I interacted with the world.

Oh yes, the old 'Lovephobia' diagnosis... always a tough one.

Since last year I was under constant screw-tiny as to my behavior, [does not compute, captain.} I have lived with people that cared for me because I could not take care of myself. Only in the last few weeks I have decided perhaps it is time for the little bird to fly and hey, guess who I bumped into.

WHO??? pray tell.

I know I carry unwanted baggege with me still, all I can say is being here seems to have at last opened my eyes to what is it that I walked away from and thank you for putting me right from the start.

You're certainly welcome.

Salam

Shalom

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Date: Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 01:33:37 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: It's normal what you feel. Gerry is wrong.
Message:
I understand what you are going through. I know personally people experiencing the same, member and ex members of the cult. Do you give your email address? I would like to say something to you.

I left last year and it has being rough, but it doesn't have to stay that way;work is needed to fight 'certain thoughts' at times, but no way I can turn back: I will win at the end. Not his pompous ass...You can be fine. He messes with people's heads. He made us nuts!!

I hope you take care of yourself. Don't go away. Stay here for a while. It has helped me inmensely!

Love,

SB

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Date: Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 03:00:39 (GMT)
From: gErRy
Email: None
To: SB
Subject: Sometimes I'm righter than wronger
Message:
By all means, do stay for a chat, Salam. I agree with SB.
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Date: Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 03:08:42 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: gErRy
Subject: Thanks for admitting it. ;) (nt)
Message:
'HE' sucks!
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Date: Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 03:40:02 (GMT)
From: Current and future premie
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: How would you ex-premies
Message:
spread the Knowledge if you had been 8 years old and your father/Master designated you as the one to spread it around the world? Most of you espouse such bitterness and even hatred towards M but if you had an experience of peace, love and light within you, how would you attempt to let others know about it? After all it's a gift offered with no strings attached but you talk as if it's being offered in a cynical and false and even evil way. I've had Knowledge since 1982 and no one ever brainwashed me or forced me to give money or do anything against my will. I love listening to M and I don't belong to a cult. I simply enjoy the stillness and peace that practicing Knowledge brings to me. So how would you guys let others know about it that wouldn't offend your sensibilities? I'd seriously like to know.
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Date: Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 23:21:54 (GMT)
From: hamzen
Email: None
To: Current and future premie
Subject: Where to start, and how long you got?
Message:
Relaxation is the key, and conceptual baggage is the block, IF meditation is gonna work for ya.

No pressure to 'be' anything, no need for 'endless' repetition, if the k is an ok meditation technique, then medittate not talk incessantly.

As for gm and k, this is the guy who takes fag breaks during k sessions rather than meditating with the premies!

Admit he's a human, have faith that god will provide without all the $ promptings, in other words get real.

He had an excellent bunch of people who were just wasted, and now that no-ones left he's shitting himself, getting into more & more dodgy scams.

You can't honestly believe that glass goblets engraved with HIS coat of arms is anything to do with truth.

Honest open discussion, kill the lila concept, the perfect master concept, the triangle concept, every dodgy mistake he makes is perfect concept

That'll do for starters

Oh & no more phase 2's, admit the houston shit was garbage, & finally start doing what DUO was intended for, after all, it's a bit hard becoming a meditator if you're dead from starvation or whatever, think of all the excellent pr & spin he'd get, I even gave the krishna people some slack because of their soup kitchens.

But of course he missed it in '76, if he'd have been honest then as well as the premies, just think what could have got generated.

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Date: Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 18:11:55 (GMT)
From: Banjax
Email: None
To: Current and future premie
Subject: If you were Santa Claus...
Message:
..and a house was locked and had no chimney, how would you leave presents?

If you were the tooth fairy, would you take account of inflation when assessing the value of the discarded enamel beneath a kiddie's pillow?

If you were the Loch Ness Monster would you make it a firm rule to allow the tourists occasional glimpes but never appear before their cameras?

If you were a unicorn who fancied wearing a hat, would you (a) drill a hole in the middle of the hat to accommodate the horn, or (b) buy a conical hat that would fit around the horn?

(And in your case paint a capital 'D' on the front..?)

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Date: Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 18:24:53 (GMT)
From: past premie
Email: None
To: Current and future premie
Subject: How would you ex-premies
Message:
Either the 8-year-old was a mere mortal who would understandably be ill-equipped for such a stupendous undertaking, or the 8-year-old was an extremely enlightened soul for whom the undertaking was just service to his master, no more stupendous than mopping the floor.

If M was just an 8 year old little boy - perhaps a very evolved soul, but one who was confused regarding his own divinity - then his attempt at spreading Knowledge (the manifestation of which was/is all that has turned out), is understood. A lot of external trip, religious elements, and indoctrination (learning all the correct protocol, right things to believe and say, etc) were brought along, in addition to the 'pure' experience itself. M has attempted to correct his image through the years, but essentially keeps himself above and beyond Everyone else. I believe a true man of God should be humble, yet brilliant. If he is truly a man of God, why is there so much secrecy, lack of explanation for all that has gone wrong in his world?

If M is truly a great master, an enlightened soul, then why all the bs associated with him? If this is the Knowledge of all knowledges, why such a pitiful response to it after so long? Such a great Knowledge should shine for all to see, and not be so exclusive as to who can have it, or who is worthy, or even what other methods (outside M & K) are legitimate.

I know for myself that I used to believe and say that M was different, that this was no cult. For more than 20 years I believed that I was never forced to do anything -from giving my money, to dropping everything to run off to festivals, to dropping everything that mattered in my life to dedicate myself to him in the ashram. You have to be honest with yourself. When M has one of his 'saintly' mahatmas come around to basically plead for money, with the stigma attached of premies needing to 'take the next step', is this not a subtle forcing? By extention there were (and probably are) so many other ways that we were manipulated.

Like others posting on this topic, I remain a human being who wants to respect others and wants the harmony of God in my life and shared among all people. But I have a problem with a mentality that denies so much that is true, relevant, and beautiful outside of the world of M & K.

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Date: Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 17:41:33 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Current and future premie
Subject: a gift offered with no strings attached? LIAR (nt)
Message:
speechless
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Date: Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 17:15:40 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Current and future premie
Subject: How would you ex-premies
Message:
I have never heard any ex-premie blame Maharaji for what he did when he was 8. Now, what he does at 42 is a different story, including the failure to explain that what he did at age 8 was wrong.

I think many ex-premies realize that Maharaji had one of the world's most screwed-up childhoods, being waited on and worshipped from his birth by the devotees of his father, and then, at age 8, being worshipped as the incarnation of God. No, at age 8, Maharaji was as much a victim of a money-grubbing, guru-industry (the family business that the entire family continues to utilize as a lucrative meal ticket), as his later devotees were.

As someone else said, the essence of cult programming (I don't like the word 'brainwashing' -- it's too Manchurian Candidate), is that you don't know you have it. The essence of it is that you develop mechanisms that censor information and prevent you from objectively looking at the cult and your cult experience. They prevent you from trusting your own judgments, because you view them as 'doubts.'

By the way, Maharaji does NOT 'freely' give knowledge. As many people have pointed out, 'knowledge' is actually quite difficult to get, all under the theory of being 'ready.' In reality, what happens is that people who want knowledge are strung along for quite a long time, and those who remain learn to never doubt it or Maharaji, to be 'grateful' to him for something they don't even have, and to accept the damaging idea that your own mind is the source of any unhappiness you might have. To the extent people internalize those things, they are 'programmed' into a cult. Some people break through that and get out, and some don't.

By the way, it is a free country and premies are free to follow Maharaji if they want to, and to listen to former followers or not. But don't you agree that it's a good thing to present the other side of the story? Isn't it healthy to mention that there are many people who tried 'knowledge' and being 'premies' and found that it doesn't work, that Maharaji has nothing to do with any positive experience you have, and that Maharaji has a past in which he claimed to be god and asked his followers to devote their entire lives to him? Isn't that relevent?

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Date: Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 20:28:23 (GMT)
From: ham
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Spot on Joe, especially when the 'information
Message:
censoring' is done under the cloak of new-age positivism so that HE is not even directly invoked, thus to sloppy thinkers getting rid of the 'cult' angle of it all.

Personally I think this is the most dangerous part of his whole package', the supposedly 'normal' surface of it all, with a warp factor that is as seriously fucked as any sai baba, krishna consciousness, or moonie follower. At least they have the integrity to be explicit about their cult thinking (the moonies etc).

This illusion that premies have, that gm exhibits no behaviour control, lifestyle changes or dress style etc for premies, that would be an example of cult thinking, is the greatest example of cult thinking possible.

Don'5t you also find it curious that the premie responses here are so redolent of the 'blaspemy' angle, yet tghat they 'worship' someone, which makes it a 'religion' is denied, and was even in his half-monty krishna days!
It's like some weird inversion warp out of star trek!

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Date: Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 15:21:59 (GMT)
From: Paul
Email: None
To: Current and future premie
Subject: You're forgetting something..
Message:
The 8 y/o maharaji was the perfect master. He just happened to be in a the body of an 8 y/o. He was the all knowing, Lord of the Universe. This was already beiing downplayed by the time you got K.
Also, you're quite right about not being forced to give money or do anything. It's 'voluntary.' That's the beauty of how cults operate. You get to feel like a free thinking, make your own choices kind of guy/gal. Wake up.
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Date: Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 14:55:01 (GMT)
From: Way
Email: None
To: Current and future premie
Subject: How would you ex-premies
Message:
CFP,

You seem genuinely perplexed about the negative feelings that ex-premies express toward Mr. Rawat. You say that you would sincerely like to understand, so perhaps I could explain a little, from my own personal perspective.

In 1996 or so, at a program that I attended, Maharaji said that 'you come to the Master because he speaks for your own heart.' The Knowledge is not just an enjoyable feeling of peace and stillness, as you quite narrowly describe it. No, Dear, it is meant to be more than that. It is meant to be an expression of our heart's deepest desire, which is just that simple, true love that unites us all.

On Maharaji's and Elan Vital's websites, Mr. Rawat makes it clear that there is a connection to the Master that makes the Knowledge real. Without that connection to the Master, the Knowledge doesn't work. You say that Knowledge works, and that there are no strings attached, and no cult. But then you write about Mr. Rawat with a capital H. So I assume that in your personal situation, you accept Mr. Rawat as the Master that makes the Knowledge work. Without him, your experience of that love would not be real.

Please understand, CFP, I do not object to a love that unites us all. But I have understood that Mr. Rawat does NOT speak for my heart. My heart does not want a love that is dependent upon Mr. Rawat in any way whatsoever. I cringe at the thought of such a love. My heart rejects such a love, because it is not the real love that unites us all.

You say you have read the old satsangs. How about the famous Pinata Satsang? Mr. Rawat makes it very clear in that satsang of not so long ago that the only true love is the love that is given by the Perfect Master. By comparison, he said, the love between mother and child is a false and selfish love.

This is not the message of MY heart. Mr. Rawat speaks for himself, not for me. I want a love that comes from my own self, direct from the source, that I can share with those people who are close to my life, not with some little stranger on a stage who tries to make my innate gratitude for life directed toward himself.

You say that you would sincerely like to understand the sensibilities expressed here. Perhaps my post has explained a little.

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Date: Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 03:00:19 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: all so true
Message:
How sad is it? My son, a young teenager, reminded me yesterday that a while back I say to him that I loved Maharaji more than I love him.

This goes for the premies to show that I did had 'that experience', felt 'that love' and 'appreciation/devotion' etc...That was my devotion for 'HIM'. How did I get to be like that though? Is not easy to point exactly in how many ways he did it (I'm still counting), but the most important one is that he played with my head so, so good. Only now, as time goes by, I'm begining to see the extent of his trap. It invaded many, many areas of my life, some too personal to say here. He doesn't deserve my love anymore. How can you love the one that is emprisoned you for so many friquing years!?

Great post Way!! Thanks, once more. I share your feelings.

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Date: Sat, Jul 15, 2000 at 04:03:40 (GMT)
From: Veep
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: Pinata Satsang--grrrrrrrrr
Message:
Love between a mother and child is false and selfish?

Oh, yeah, Maharaji, it's certainly selfish to get up in the middle of the night and feed a baby every two hours...or clean puke up off of the floor at two am...or run to the pediatrician about once a week...and spend all of your money on college tuition...I could go on.

Listen, you idiot, selfish love is where you take money from people while sitting on your fat ass while they kiss your feet. In return you give a lot of empty promises. That is false and selfish, you bafoon!

I think this is one of the most stupid things Maharaji ever said-sheesh!

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Date: Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 10:14:12 (GMT)
From: Sir David
Email: None
To: Current and future premie
Subject: How would you ex-premies
Message:
Give the techniques of meditation to everyone who showed an interest. They could have the techniques after a short explanitary talk and there would be no need to be anyone's devotee.

There would be an organisation set up to help and inspire people to meditate and share their experiences. Nobody would have to join this organisation and it would be there solely to reveal the techniques to all interested parties and assist people after they'd got the techniques.

This is very different to the organisation which Maharaji has set up. His organisation is set up merely to extract as much money as possible from people who have received knowledge. And most of the money goes into his back pocket.

Read Maharaji's selection rules to see what his main objective is in giving people knowledge. It stinks. Especially the bit where they stipulate the income/employment requirements necessary to receive knowledge.

By the way, if I wanted to receive knowledge today, I couldn't do because I have a long term medical problem (cardiac) which would automatically ban me from receiving knowledge. And I certainly couldn't travel to events.

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Date: Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 14:57:27 (GMT)
From: Elaine
Email: None
To: Sir David
Subject: BTW, Sir Dave,I agree
Message:
with your post whole-heartedly.

I see that the most important thing is for those interested (that would not be Gerry or others that don't believe in meditation,I know) - but, for those that wanted some techniques to 'go inside', that some explanation and no 'cult' with a figurehead would be the way to go.

Those 'stuck' thinking a 'guru' is absolutely necessary could find one to worship.

I do think a teacher - maybe your older brother - is helpful to answer questions or to inspire and remind. I find most of my inspiration from books. And for the first time since I started posting here months ago I listened for a while to a M video.

And it was like a premie said once - he did inspire me to meditate. His words were soothing and calming and put a smile on my face - not having anything to do with worship or loving him - just his words about finding peace (or something of that nature)
being so important and sweet --rather than the ups and downs of this world.

But, that is not to say that a video of any other speaker wouldn't have also inspired me. ( I listen to many speakers in my car from PhD's to Deepak - just anything I can learn something from.)

I'm also thinking if someone needs someone to 'bow down to' when they sit to begin meditation - they could consider -Christ,their inner true self,St. Francis,Mary,the Supreme Being that is within them and around them -- I don't know.
But, I'm thinking a living Master/teacher to inwardly 'pranam' to is - not necessarily the thing to do.

I personally don't begrudge anyone that wants to do that,however. Which I think would be a difference between many here and myself.
_________________________________________________________________

And if I may also, while I'm here, address those that would like me to not post here - P-man would,of course, be the 1st to come to mind - if a premie isn't welcome to read and post - I feel they would never even question M or his organization.
It would do a disservice to what I 'think' is probably one of the objectives of you all - to get premies thinking. Otherwise, premies are perfectly happy where they are at.

Elaine

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Date: Sat, Jul 15, 2000 at 21:36:49 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: Elaine
Subject: Would you watch any more inspiring videos
Message:
of HIM and see HIS smilling face as being inspiration if you had understood his motives? Would you want to support in any way HIM?
Would you?

And it was like a premie said once - he did inspire me to meditate. His words were soothing and calming and put a smile on my face - not having anything to do with worship or loving him - just his words about finding peace (or something of that nature)
being so important and sweet --rather than the ups and downs of this world.

Sick, isn't?

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Date: Sat, Jul 15, 2000 at 15:25:14 (GMT)
From: P-man
Email: None
To: Elaine
Subject: Let me spell it out for you...
Message:
Maharaji=Liar/Cheat
Knowledge=Hot Air
Premie=Sucker
Meditation=No Panacea
Elaine=Not fooling anyone
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Date: Sat, Jul 15, 2000 at 17:24:23 (GMT)
From: Elaine
Email: None
To: P-man
Subject: Let me spell it out for you...
Message:
PM,
Not fooling anyone about what?

I'm going thru my own process.
From the first time I punched in 'Maharaji search' and came to this site there has been quite a change in me - why does everyone pounce on things I post and twist and take out of context?
This mentality is not something I deal with in my personal life.

My post to Sir Dave was a very clear indication of a changing attitude. To even think that I'm not buying into the Indian concept that you need a teacher/master is quite a large change in my thinking.
I don't 'know' mind you -I'm kind of stuck on what Christ said - about - You get to the Father thru me. I don't know what that means exactly. Does he mean he's the Word made manifest and only thru that Word which is Him you get to God - whatever that is??

This is interesting stuff - I don't know - but I'm just plodding along and keeping my ears open.

This is not a question that you PMan - I want a discussion with - but, it is an interesting topic for me.

St. John of the Cross,all the St. Teresas - they didn't have a living master - but they did have Christ. I can't remember if Kabir said you needed a master/teacher/guru/guide. I have to admit - I don't really know who Kabir was- but his words are profound enough that I respect him.

I'm 'wrestling ' with this concept of needing a master- dead or alive.

But,regardless of me digressing above - I think you will probably find something to be antagonistic about - which doesn't help and does more harm than good.
I think that you are so angry (or something) that you just are antagonistic no matter what I say about anything...I just don't know what else to think,P-man.

Elaine

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Date: Sat, Jul 15, 2000 at 23:36:23 (GMT)
From: P-man
Email: None
To: Elaine
Subject: Let me spell it out for you...
Message:
Elaine said
But,regardless of me digressing above - I think you will probably find something to be antagonistic about - which doesn't help and does more harm than good. I think that you are so angry (or something) that you just are antagonistic no matter what I say about anything...I just don't know what else to think, P-man.

I'm not angry, Elaine, but I think maharaji and his supporters deserve to be challenged. And I think religion and spirituality deserve to be challenged also.

The fact is, you don't know what Christ said. You just have a silly book with a lot of silly stuff in it. Not to mention the translation probably isn't even correct. And Christ didn't even write the book.

But if the idea of a master is that intriguing, then get one. I already know what will happen.

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Date: Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 03:17:55 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: P-man
Subject: Imaginary friends
Message:
Hi!

Yes, because it's like, if you want one have one, but don't go around telling people you know the TRUTH and they don't, because the ones that are wrong are the ones who decided that an imaginary friend was/is needed at all. It doesn't matter who was the first one who thought there was a benefit of having one;somebody created that concept and others FOLLOWED IT.

Is all crap!!

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Date: Sat, Jul 15, 2000 at 21:53:36 (GMT)
From: Elaine
Email: None
To: Elaine
Subject: To you: When people tell the truth they are angry?
Message:
Bad reasoning Elaine, one more time.

I think that you are so angry (or something) that you just are antagonistic no matter what I say about anything...I just don't know what else to think,P-man.

Elaine

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Date: Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 01:40:31 (GMT)
From: Elaine
Email: None
To: SB
Subject: Was that you, yet again, above,SB ,posting wrong?n
Message:
And BTW, it wasn't bad reasoning at all. Thank you very much.
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Date: Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 19:33:28 (GMT)
From: Hal
Email: None
To: Elaine
Subject: Elaine
Message:
Hi Elaine,

Just a message of support for you. I recognise your integrity and see that you are questioning honestly your involvement with Maha master.

Love and support to you , as I was not long ago where you are. I had lots of wonderful experiences as a result of going within too, yet I think that true enlightenment is unnobtainable until one lets go of following anyone .

Hal

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Date: Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 21:00:12 (GMT)
From: Elaine
Email: None
To: Hal
Subject: Hal
Message:
Jeez Hal,
Thanks for not taking something out of context and twisting it and being antagonistic and name-calling.

I'm questioning alot.
Oh, but oops, someone will think I'm trying to fool someone by saying that.

This place is turning me into being sarcastic.

Sincerely, thanks for not being mean and taking the time to incourage.You may be the only one that recognizes (or cares)about my questionings.

Elaine

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Date: Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 05:52:13 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: Elaine
Subject: I do too, Elaine.
Message:
I care about your questioning and wish you get your answers!

You are expressing yourself differently; people notice that. I do.

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Date: Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 03:06:08 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: Elaine
Subject: Elaine: chew my ass k but don't anwer my F
Message:
questions? See why I call you bitch? you are one in disguise. Change, you look worst than me. LOL
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Date: Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 02:43:14 (GMT)
From: sb
Email: None
To: Elaine
Subject: Yes! Help, I'm losing my mind...(nt)
Message:
but not dead.
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Date: Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 18:43:16 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Elaine
Subject: What's with this 'living Master' jive?
Message:
Elaine,

Please come clean. You're sussed enough to know the difference between a meditation that works for you and the person who profers that meditation.

What you experience in meditation is one thing. From whom you learned HOW to experience it is quite another.

You yourself have said that you 'hardly ever' think of Maharaji. But apparently you still call yourself a 'premie' (at least I've not yet heard your retraction - and 'premie' to me doesn't just mean 'lover', it means a follower of Prem Pal ('Porkie') Singh - the one who 'never claimed' to God in human form (according to Elan Vital, though where that Holy Family, Holy Breath, and Holy Krishna outfit came from, God only knows).

You advise this:

'Those 'stuck' thinking a 'guru' is absolutely necessary could find one to worship.'

I, for one, wonder why you offer this 'advice' - the fact that you still call yourself a premie indicates that you, too, are 'stuck'. Otherwise why call yourself one?

And why promulgate the idea of 'bowing down' to any other human being? It's like giving carte blanche to any con-artist who can fool the great mass of suggestibles (like we were?).

No, Elaine, the whole concept of 'bowing down' to another human being is based on the elements of human history that make being human something to (eventually) be ashamed of (though I hope we can grow out of it).

Whose feet were we encouraged to kiss???

Mr Rawat's???

Boke.

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Date: Sat, Jul 15, 2000 at 00:38:54 (GMT)
From: Elaine
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: Yeah,what is with the living master jive?
Message:
Sorry, but, I don't see where I was 'advising' anyone - probably why you yourself used quotation marks.
Why would someone be ashamed of being Human?

We don't communicate well - that is obvious to me,cq.
Shame bec - you seem like a likable guy.

I read alot of posts twice - do you? It is usually clearer on my second read what the person meant - rather than a reaction I may have had with a word or sentence.

Are you British? Don't know what boke means - figure it's 'BS'.

Whatever,
Elaine

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Date: Sat, Jul 15, 2000 at 02:02:16 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Elaine
Subject: Great post, Elaine
Message:
You know, I read cq's post to you and thought 'Hm, this guy's making some excellent points here. I wonder, how in the world is Elaine going to respond to this?'

Well, I should have known.

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Date: Sat, Jul 15, 2000 at 02:01:02 (GMT)
From: Elaine
Email: None
To: Elaine
Subject: It isn't about communication, Elaine, is YOU (nt)
Message:
You have a problem: DENIAL
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Date: Sat, Jul 15, 2000 at 13:17:49 (GMT)
From: Elaine
Email: None
To: SB
Subject: Why do you con't to not post your name,SB?
Message:
SB
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Date: Sat, Jul 15, 2000 at 13:55:26 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: Elaine
Subject: Oh, I got it now...sorry
Message:
I see what I did. It looks like you are talking to yourself. Well, maybe it was my subconscient mind speaking: You kind of do THAT, don't you? This time was not intentional. I'm still trying to put myself back together Elaine, you know? I encountered a guru in 1974 and I just got my mind back from him on 1999; I have a lot of work to do. Please, I beg for your pardon. I'm kind of crazy, you know? YOU DON'T GET IT, DO YOU!!
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Date: Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 05:21:43 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: SB
Subject: hey *I* get it SB
Message:
Yesterday I wrote to another ex in email, that I think as a (recent) ex I made the mistake of minimizing how serious it is to go through the recent ex stage.
That was a BIG mistake on my part that I didn't see how serious it was.
I thought after five or six months, OK that's not so bad, I'm over it.
But it isn't so easy. It takes a long time to put it all back together, especially if, like you and me we started out in the cult so young, before we really had formed any other identity.
And, I was messed up then and never worked on the other problems.
Just bought the idea that knowledge would take care of it, or grace or surrender to M just like he told us to do, don't think just surrender.
It IS better now. And now finally I can work on the other stuff with a clear - well more clear - head but it took a long time,
A few years to shake off the first bad part. Especially all that brainwashing. And all the anger.
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Date: Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 06:50:36 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: hey *I* get it SB
Message:
She is such a bitch..with me more...anyway....ROFL

Right. We were so young our identities were not formed. That is a big part of the problem and what some of us are doing is not for sissies like some. Getting of the cult is not easy. At first you feel so good and liberated. As time goes by and you are struggling -bad at times- you realize that the damage he inflicted in you is so much larger than what you ever expected to be and it's scary. Who put that garbage there? You know you shouldn't be feeling that way but you just can't help it. And the enemy lies one more time, but this time only some believe his words and you are not one of them and you feel good about it, but some days are full of too many memories, too many trips, too many feet kissing, too much servitude from your part; those are the days I hate. And you would like, you need, you want to talk to this imaginary friend and he simply doesn't give a shit about you, the bastard!!

Knowledge is about you, he says, and yes it's. The objective is to drive you nuts enough so you stay, at his feet. Garbage!! That is what he is!! He knows that ALL IS ABOUT DEVOTION/ADORATION TO HIM but he won't say it! Spit!. Sorry, I had something in my mouth... and the love ones you lost, your life ruined...No, I don't expect that too many can understand it. You did. Sucks, eh?

My premie friend suggested that I meditate more. The concept that meditacion fixes anything is such a lie too. Meditation keeps you tied to him. Didn't we encounter a horrible self-centered, stupid mean greedy guru? Katie told me today that JW said once that the best revenge of an ex is to live well, and it's true. Think about it? What is he doing as we speak? Laughing his ass off somewhere, having fun, after all, with his flat mentality he thinks he is doing people a favor. Does he think that? It rimes with Yuck: LOL

Glad to know you are better. A big hug.

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Date: Sat, Jul 15, 2000 at 13:49:53 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: Elaine
Subject: Why do you con't to not post your name,SB?
Message:
I forgot. You knew it was me anyway. You do read my posts, see?
hahahaha...Like you are so truthful...Start demanding truth at home. Is anybody home though? I think you are sleeping or something...
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Date: Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 15:47:53 (GMT)
From: P-man
Email: None
To: Elaine
Subject: BTW, Sir Dave,I agree
Message:
Elaine,
I think maharaji is a flim-flam man. He's a fraud and an insincere thief. One day he's the Lord, the next he's not; now you see it, now you don't. One day premies are living in the ashram pouring their guts out, the next day they're out on the street.

The issue of meditation and it's benefits are besides the point, and the issue of whether maharaji 'inspires' you to meditate is also besides the point. The man sold you a fake Rolex watch... sure it tells the time, sure he tells you to use it. Big fucking deal. The watch is a fake and maharaji is a liar.

Here's what's misleading about maharaji's meditation: It doesn't solve any significant problems in a person's life. It doesn't make you happier and you don't owe anyone anything if they show you how to meditate.

More importantly, and you'll know this if you do actually meditate... maharaji doesn't know anything special about meditation. He's got nothing to say except some drivel about 'going inside'.

The world is a rough place and life is complex. Maharaji offers an over-simplified, immature and confusing explanation of life and how to deal with it. If you follow his advice you're walking uphill and against the wind.

If it's comforting to be lied to, if it's comforting to think that life is simpler than it really is, if it's comforting to listen to some jackass like maharaji put himself on a pedestal and lie to you about how he can help you, then fine, knock yourself out.

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Date: Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 15:59:35 (GMT)
From: Elaine
Email: None
To: P-man
Subject: BTW, Sir Dave,I agree
Message:
Powerman,

I have never posted with you before - nor have I read more than two or three of your posts. In other words, I don't know you or how you feel or think, really.

My first reaction upon reading your post to me above was 'So...ok..'

I didn't quite get what it had to do with me or my post to Sir Dave.

If you'd like to clarify - I'm open. If you just wanted to say what you wanted to say, with no referrence to my post - ok.
But, I didn't follow that it related to my post.

I know typing can become tiresome. So you can leave your post as it stands if you want. That's also fine with me.

Elaine

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Date: Sat, Jul 15, 2000 at 13:58:27 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: Elaine
Subject: For the ones that have nothing to say you mean?
Message:
I know typing can become tiresome.

I don't get what you say because when I want to say something I have the energy to do it; you must be from other planet or something.

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Date: Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 07:28:18 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: Current and future premie
Subject: Maharaji has 'many worlds'
Message:
In his private world, and I'm not talking about family life, but the private world of Elan Vital and maharaji, (who DOES RUN ALL!!)there are 'realities' unknown to you, correct? Would you say that such a crazy, deluded human being who, who lives a totally unreal life, sorrounded by ,literally, servants, WHO WOULD DO ABOUT ANYTHING, including kill another human being as when Mahatma Fakiranand attacked with a hammer a man who threw a pie on Maharaji's face. I hate to say this, but it's funny. I have the video if you want to watch it. Is humorous, well, not to Fakiranand. In that video, LOTUS, the guy who was attacked explains that he had to have a metal plate inserted in his head, and how viciously the attack was. That is what I'm talking about. You wouldn't do it and many, many would. I'm I scared of the premies founding out I'm an ex? I think they got the idea already and if they want to visit me Fakiranand style, I have something to receive them with. Sad. Isn't? Cult mind. Fanaticism, behind door, where the ultimate thing is to kiss his feet. How do you justify Darshan?

He allows others kiss his feet.I bet you still happens today, behind closed doors. He has his private world where he is at top. You? You were/are a casual observer for the way you talk. Yes, in india es very commmon to have masters, but if he isn't a PERFECT master anymore, many of us don't want him anymore. He changes too often as to prove on the outside that changes are refreeshing, good, but he really changes all to cover his ass! Not because is btter for the student! And an incredible amount of money is spent continously to continue covering holes. There you have your little cult. Is so good that it's secret. Common...He has no interest in 'noice'...he only needs few for his 'lord trip'...all gurus do that... His talks are boring and he repeats over and over again same boring stories. He's egocentric and I can care less for the success of another person, good for them, but the form how Maharaji made his fortune IMO is not acceptable. He took ALL of what many owned. Premies lived in poberty in houses called ashrams that M sat,they worked and gave all their paychecks to him!! What about that?

I have a lot of questions yet to answer...but what I'm more interested than all is to learn about Maharaji's motives on allowing Elan Vital to include on their site so much garbage and lies about everything? How do I know? I was there.I received Knowledge on the 70s.

I was the Aspirant Contact for many years, you'll see in a while mi experience written around here. 'Not all that shines is gold.'

I understand he began young and uneducated, but now, what is his excuse? I want my money back Maharaji! you thief...how can I forgive his 'little' mistake, hey, I was a devotee too and now he is no longer there for me to adore.

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Date: Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 06:29:48 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Current and future premie
Subject: And I've got a question for you
Message:
First your answer -- well, I can't answer because the question assumes a fact I certainly don't accept, namely that 'knowledge' is real and worth turning people on to. I think that's bullshit but whatever. Maybe that's just me, eh? Like I say, whatever.

Here's my question for you: are you indifferent to Maharaji's morality (or lack thereof)?

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Date: Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 08:31:55 (GMT)
From: Mike Tyson
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: And I've got a question for you
Message:
Why don't you answer the question Fuckhead. The witness is avoiding the Question your worship! What...... ,do wanna get your ears bitten off......You are the most obdurate man....
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Date: Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 15:51:45 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Mike Tyson
Subject: I DID answer the question, you fool
Message:
When did you stop kicking your wife?

Get it?

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Date: Sat, Jul 15, 2000 at 04:22:01 (GMT)
From: Mike Tyson
Email: Well , you were in the Hotel Lobby darling
To: Jim
Subject: I DID answer the question, you fool
Message:
You did not. You simply dismissed the subject matter as something you could not personally accept. Would you please answer THE question Mr Heller. I don't need to remind you that any further lack of co-operation will be identified for what is your most significant and outstanding quality....Utter and completee contempt for anything you are not the author of or do not support.
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Date: Sat, Jul 15, 2000 at 20:28:34 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Mike Tyson
Subject: God, you're stupid!
Message:
What's it take for you to learn something so basic? No one can answer a question that assumes a fact they disagree with. It's impossible.

Again, the classic example is 'when did you stop hitting your wife?' Now how in the world can you answer that if you don't accept the fact that you were hitting your wife to begin with? You can't. The question has to be unpacked.

Here, the original question you say I'm dodging was 'So how would you guys let others know about [knowledge] that wouldn't offend your sensibilities?' But don't you understand, I think 'knowledge' is bullshit. There IS no way I can think of telling people about it that wouldn't offend my sensibilities, not because I have a problem with the advertising -- which is what the question was about, after all -- but with the product itself.

Now, don't you think that if you quit trying to grind your mind away you might be able to think better? I sure hope so for your sake.

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Date: Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 00:16:30 (GMT)
From: Mike Tyson
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: The intelligent fool that you are!
Message:
You are well aware that you were/are avoiding the question Mr Heller , a quality you are famous for. As a lawyer ridiculing and insulting a witness may well be a legitimate tactic..if it works.It is usually used as a means of intimidating the witness to give less/or more than their full testimony. It can also be used to divert the attention of the jury/judge away from the value of the information being expressed.
Assuming you are intelligent enough to understand the concept , you were originally requested to address a 'hypothetical' question. Your views on the product were irrelevant. You were asked to describe what process you would have engaged had you been in the same circumstances as the principal in this hypothetical. Or is it all beyond your small fecund walnut of a brain. Think about it Mr Heller. And would you then please ANSWER the question(not your own previous responses.) I remind you the Jury is waiting and you are wasting peoples time with your obstinant non co-operative manner.
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Date: Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 01:39:21 (GMT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Mike Tyson
Subject: Who is this?
Message:
My first guess is SHP. After that, I'd say Mel Bourne. It's one or the other. Whichever one it is, you're both definitely stupid enough to be Mike Tyson. And by the way, HAVE you stopoed beating your wife, yet? Remember it's just a hypothetical question.

Why don't you go crawl under a blanket, moron?

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Date: Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 18:14:12 (GMT)
From: hal
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: Has a cat sprayed around here?
Message:
asdfg
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Date: Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 01:59:00 (GMT)
From: Iron Mike
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: Who is this?
Message:
Read what you just said. Who's the moron? And it's neither you Fuckwit.
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Date: Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 02:37:01 (GMT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Iron Mike
Subject: Who is this?
Message:
Yeah, I read what I said. What's your point? I really think you're SHP or Mel Bourne. The line of reasoning is familiar to me along those lines. If it's not either one of those, let me guess again. Deputy Dog, perhaps? You see, the logic applied by premies is pretty consistent. There isn't much difference from one of you to the other. You're all pretty dumb and impossible to reason with.
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Date: Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 12:03:30 (GMT)
From: My name is Mr D Grace
Email: Check out the Makabeh bridge disaster for clues.
To: Jerry
Subject: Who is this?
Message:
Would it surprise you Mr Clever Dick if I told you that you happen to be the apple of my eye at the moment . A friend of mine in the same learned profession told me this site represents one of the worst cases of unsustaniable libel available for view on the Web.Seems he is correct. Assumption....such a dangerous thing unless you happen to be the Virgin Mary , dont you think?
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Date: Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 15:59:27 (GMT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: My name is Mr D Grace
Subject: Who is this?
Message:
You guys are all talk. For more than two years we've been hearing from you idiots how guilty of libel this site is. When's something going to be done about it?

Talk, talk, talk. Yada, yada, yada.

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Date: Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 09:10:51 (GMT)
From: Mike Tyson
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: Who is this?
Message:
Foolish boy . Follow the bouncing ball.~0-o~....I did not threaten you with anything. I am ,if you like , a third party merely interested from a professional postion in your sites total arrogance. Follow my clues Mr J and you will realise I am truthful.
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Date: Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 16:30:45 (GMT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Mike Tyson
Subject: Who is this?
Message:
You're senseless, is what you are, Mike. A little too many uppercuts to the jaw, perhaps?
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Date: Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 01:06:31 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: Mike Tyson
Subject: Look who is talking a walnuts!! (nt)
Message:
SB
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Date: Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 01:40:59 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: SB
Subject: I ment to say.... about walnuts!! (nt)
Message:
litlle ones
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Date: Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 02:03:45 (GMT)
From: Mike Tyson
Email: None
To: SB
Subject: I ment to say.... about walnuts!! (nt)
Message:
Thanks for your incisive comment SB. No doubt everyone is all the more enlightened as to your deep cognitive powers and your biting wit.
P.S Try Spellcheck , I'm told it is very reliable.
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Date: Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 03:26:24 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: Mike Tyson
Subject: Not bad for second language, right? Low life
Message:
very low=servant.

It's easy to point the finger. My incisive point was: Can you see you?

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Date: Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 12:06:39 (GMT)
From: Iron Mike
Email: None
To: SB
Subject: Not bad for second language, right? Low life
Message:
Of course I can. But I'm not the least bit religious so I feel no shame. What is your first language....chimp??
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Date: Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 20:26:00 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: Iron Mike
Subject: Attn:FA: Iron Mike: Why did you call me a chimp?
Message:
That sounded really weird, as in racist?
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Date: Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 20:24:20 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: Iron Mike
Subject: You were talking to me, not a to a chimp
Message:
My first language is spanish and explain to me what you mean by chimp. I beg you: You got me thinking again...LOL

I think I must have a talk with the forum administrador about your racist derogatory remark. I want an explanation why you call me chimp.

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Date: Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 09:16:37 (GMT)
From: Iron Mike
Email: None
To: SB
Subject: You were talking to me, not a to a chimp
Message:
PLEEEZE SB that is bizzare. A Chimp is a species of African primates, not human. I believe one has to be human to be the victim of a rascist insult. Come on!!!IQ???? And me being Iron Mike....are you nuts??
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Date: Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 18:33:28 (GMT)
From: hal
Email: None
To: Iron Mike
Subject: You call yourself a premie, a lover ??'..
Message:
You fucking despicable , cowardly asshole , guru worshipping shit. Hiding behind a tough guy image. Come on, I challenge you to tell us what incredible love has been revealed inside you. What exquisite peace. I tell you ,people like you make me fuckin' puke. FUCK OFF AND WANK YOURSELF TO DEATH:!!!!!!!!!

You see what happens Elaine ? A normally laid back , tolerant guy like me gets so wound up by these creeps. No apologies !!!

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Date: Wed, Jul 19, 2000 at 03:14:43 (GMT)
From: Iron Mike
Email: None
To: hal
Subject: You call yourself a premie, a lover ??'..
Message:
My, My , My....such eloquence. If you read the thread completely you may realise I am not a 'premie' , whatever that may be! I am a QC . Do you know what that is?
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Date: Wed, Jul 19, 2000 at 14:15:18 (GMT)
From: Hal
Email: None
To: Iron Mike
Subject: Q:C: Queens Counciler ? Quaint Cockroach?
Message:
I give up!

If you're not a premie are you an ex premie. If niether what are you doing here Mr Hardman Mike?

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Date: Wed, Jul 19, 2000 at 14:19:39 (GMT)
From: Hal
Email: None
To: Filix?
Subject: Q:C: = Queensland Cat ? Quirky Cat? nt
Message:
hgf
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Date: Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 05:02:08 (GMT)
From: la-ex
Email: None
To: Current and future premie
Subject: How would you ex-premies
Message:
Dear current premie-perhaps if you had been around since 1971 or so you would realize that m operated a major cult that DID engage in ALL of the things you say you haven't seen.
What are those things?
Go to the current m site where they attempt to explain to everyone why EV is not a cult.Look at their definitions of cult, and you will find that every one of their definitions fit the organization that m ran back then.
Today, it is true that many of the hindu trappings have fallen away, to everyone's relief.But as has been pointed out here many times, the cult mentality has become more entrenched and subtler.
Knowledge cannot stand by itself without these reinforcers.
Watch what happens over the next few years as more and more premies become aware of the secret life of m, and see how many people in this country stay.In fact,now that you've been to this site,one day you may not be a premie.You may be currently, but you may not be in the future...
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Date: Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 05:25:03 (GMT)
From: Current and future premie
Email: None
To: la-ex
Subject: Knowledge works
Message:
Listen, la-ex. Even if I had been around back then I could care less about the trappings or the way it was presented or even His personal life. When I listened to him and to the premies, I felt something. I investigated it very seriously, reading all the old satsangs I could get my hands on, the ashrams were still operating and I did get darshan and holi a few times. It all boils down to the Knowledge. It works. I simple stillness. A peace. A clarity. A joy. A feeling that feels good! If M had deviated from the feeling at all, I would have left long ago. But He has been rock solid as far as Knowledge and that feeling is. I could care less about his personal life or the way it's presented. That's all peripheral stuff. But I really admire and appreciate his relentless effort to present His gift to as many people as He can. He even offers it to people who receive the gift and then disrespect Him afterwards! That's committment!
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Date: Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 18:56:15 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Current and future premie
Subject: That's a capital 'H' for 'He' you use there
Message:
... yet 'He' lets Elan Vital say that he never claimed to be God.

So why the upper-case 'H'??

So this so-called 'knowledge' works for you?

SO?

To borrow from Joe's analogy above - so a conman sells you a Rolex - not even a FAKE Rolex - a REAL one!

What does that tell you about the conman?

That he got the real Rolex dirt cheap?

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Date: Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 18:58:35 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: sorry - not Joe's analogy - P-man's (nt)
Message:
sorry - not Joe's analogy - P-man's (nt)
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Date: Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 13:20:59 (GMT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Current and future premie
Subject: Knowledge works
Message:
It all boils down to the Knowledge. It works. I simple stillness. A peace. A clarity. A joy. A feeling that feels good! If M had deviated from the feeling at all, I would have left long ago. But He has been rock solid as far as Knowledge and that feeling is.

Are you God-conscious? You see, there was a time when this was what receiving Knowledge was all about. This is why I, personally, received Knowledge, not for clarity, not for peace, not for joy. Nor was I encouraged to receive K for any of this. Maharaji was an advocate for God realization, first and foremost. If that brought peace, joy, and clarity, okay. But it was all about 'realizing' God that this Knowledge was, nothing more, nothing less. Is it still about that? Is this what M is encouraging you to pursue? Of course not. God's hardly even mentioned anymore. So much for 'rock solid'.

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Date: Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 10:29:33 (GMT)
From: Hal
Email: None
To: Current and future premie
Subject: Knowledge works
Message:
Dear Premie,

You sound so much like I did some months ago. Yes , contrary to what many ex premies say it is true that many of us did have a wonderful experience sometimes with the whole package of K & M. There are many ex premies who still go inside to experience the stillness and peace . I do sometimes sit quietly with myself and enjoy the feeling too. That isn't really the issue. For me personally it is to do with Mahas morality or lack of. His megolomaniac approach to the spiritual master position accorded him by followers. He denies that you as a premie have anything worthwhile or lucid to say about the experience you have had for nearly twenty years. How do you feel about that?

It nowadays surprises me that anyone can find his talks inspiring. To me he relies on a 2nd rate sense of humour at the expence of others and is certainly not clear when attempting to explain anything. I was actually quite impressed with his brother's explanation of the negative aspect of mind in a thread down below . Maha never gave a clear explanation of what he meant by ' mind'.

Another objection I have to the M&K package is the implication that it is the only 'real meditation' or 'true knowledge'. I'm sure that that's not true as I personally know people who follow other 'spirtitual' pathways and also see inner light and have overwhelming experiences of 'love' or bliss.

Contrary to your perceptions of this forum it is not all bitterness and hatred. Sure, I myself have felt angry at the enormous dimension of deceit that I felt Maha had indoctrinated me with. However , much of what this forum is about is people trying to make sense of why Maha made such outrageous claims about himself and how we threw away so much time and money because we believed him. It wasn't always presented as just a peaceful experience within as you know. We were involved supposedly in the biggest event on the planet. God realisation and the most powerful manifestation of the LORd since who knows when.

What's left is a boring little bunch of closed minded and paranoid followers of a multi millionaire playboy telly guru.

How can you still be a part of it ? It really is beyond my
understanding what the attraction is.

Thanks for posting you opinions,

hal

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Date: Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 09:15:09 (GMT)
From: ex mug
Email: None
To: Current and future premie
Subject: He He He
Message:
Hi Current and Future premie

Why do you keep spelling the word 'he' with a capital 'H'
midst sentence? Do you think a lightning bolt will hit you
if you use a lower-case 'h' when refering to M?

After all, he is only a regular, ordinary human being
isn't he? Or don't you believe him.
If you don't believe him when he calls himself an
ordinary human being, are you calling him a liar?
If you do believe him, then why ignore grammatical syntax
by calling M 'He' mid-sentence?

Just wondering

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Date: Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 07:28:32 (GMT)
From: chr
Email: None
To: Current and future premie
Subject: Knowledge works
Message:
What do you mean by knowledge works? If you mean meditation works, then I agree. But lots of meditations work-some work for some people, some for others. I've discovered meditations that work better for me than Maharaji's and others that work well in combination. Lots of things 'work'. This is where this whole thing of gratitude, committment and M's gift is such a delusion. He has created an incredible mystique about something that he claims is his precious gift- its just a meditation for godsakes. What you experience is already in you-there are many ways to feel it and they don't involve losing yourself. Look, I practised K for over 20 years-diligently. I had strong experiences in meditation. I lived in ashrams for several years until they closed. I've seen it inside out-up close and from a distance. I eventually came to the conclusion that what M was doing was wrong, very wrong-that despite what may or may not be experienced by a premie practising knowledge, there were other factors, such as a lack of growth and awareness, that came about through a dismissmal of anything other than K being somehow lower or illusory. And don't tell me that M does't instill that, because he does. His talks are still full of putdowns about the average human being and the world in general and how lucky the PWK are. After a while it becomes so deeply instilled that its almost a cellular conditioning. Do you ever question what M says? Do you ever really look at your life? The premie mindset is to say how k is a beautiful and peaceful experience and quite often they mean it. I know because I used to say the same thing. But it becomes a very narrow experience and your day and your life can become reliant on it. When you step out its like leaving a fog or even a prison. And there is the opportunity for rediscovering yourself without having to fit a mould. And again don't tell me that all premies are different and that there is no mould, because thats crap. From the outside looking in you see it clearly. Even the posts that come along every now and then, like yours, are so predictable they seem almost scripted.
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Date: Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 16:03:43 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: chr
Subject: Paragraphs, chr?
Message:
I always like reading what you have to say, chr, but know that it'd be a lot easier if you used paragraphs, if you don't mind.

Thanks,

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Date: Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 19:01:31 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: chr via Jim
Subject: Seconded. I couldn't read that last post. (nt)
Message:
fsdfsad
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Date: Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 05:37:03 (GMT)
From: Monmot
Email: None
To: Current and future premie
Subject: Knowledge works
Message:
He even offers it to people who receive the gift and then disrespect Him (sic) afterwards! That's committment!

C+FP: I realize you're taking a potshot at us with that statement, but if you re-read it, you'll see that it makes little sense. Perhaps there's a commitment to offer the 'gift,' but the disrespect which comes afterward requires no commitment on M's part. Perhaps you lost touch with THAT feeling and THAT thinking in your desire to nip at us.

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Date: Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 10:19:37 (GMT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: That premie
Subject: I might also add
Message:
That most people here respected Maharaji for at least a decade after they received knowledge and some for as long as twenty five years.

Your argument is shallow and without the strength of research.

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Date: Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 06:20:10 (GMT)
From: Current and future premie
Email: None
To: Monmot
Subject: It is a commitment because
Message:
He knows that His gift will be received by some who will dis Him afterwards yet He still gives it freely. I'm sure He doesn't feel like giving it to those who won't appreciate it but He still does. To me, that's commitment. By the way, even if people hear about M through you guys, a true seeker will have an open mind and receive Knowledge then judge for him or her self!
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Date: Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 19:06:16 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Current and future premie
Subject: and if they hear about 'Him' from Elan Vital ...
Message:
... who claim that 'He' never claimed to be God, they must surely be wondering why you use the capital 'H' for 'Him'.

Are you suggesting that, even though 'He' supposedly 'never claimed' that he was 'God' in human form, (which is blatantly mendacious), 'He' WAS God, all the same?

What kind of convoluted mind-fuck have you gotten mixed up in, premie-ji?

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Date: Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 14:38:38 (GMT)
From: Monmot
Email: None
To: Current and future premie
Subject: It is a delusion because
Message:
C+FP: Boy, that's some imaginary friend you've got there. There's been an enormous push as of late to inculcate the faithful and heathens alike with the fact that M isn't god (see FAQs). Yet it appears that you, given your references to M as 'Him' and 'He,' your attibution of omniscience to M because he's 'committed' to giving his 'gift' to those people whom he knows will disrespect him in either the near or far future, are in fact disrespecting M by insisting to us he's God when he, himself, the very M, insists that he's not? Or is this a form of Divine Ninja service on your part to bravely infiltrate the forum on M's behalf to tell us he is indeed that which he insists he's not. Or is it because, in reality, this not-God phase is indeed spin and evasion, and you've blown their cover?

You weren't perchance a Catholic were you? Your ideas of M sound like the ideas of God I picked up in my fourth grade catechism. Sounds like you've got the same God, different crown.

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Date: Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 15:39:46 (GMT)
From: Elaine
Email: None
To: Monmot
Subject: 'Same God,different crown'
Message:
Good one. May I use it?
'Horsepookey' came from you,too - right?? :)

Elaine

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Date: Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 16:26:20 (GMT)
From: Monmot
Email: None
To: Elaine
Subject: Certainement--Feel Free To Use Freely (nt)
Message:
mmm
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Date: Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 15:46:16 (GMT)
From: gErRy
Email: None
To: Elaine
Subject: 'Same programming, different premie'
Message:
You're a dope Elaine. Just like your dopey pals, Keith, Sheep, Deputy dogg and Catweasel. Christ, sounds like a zoo.

And yer post sounds so ingratiating and insincere, sacharin, really.

Good one. May I use it?
'Horsepookey' came from you,too - right?? :)
Elaine

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Date: Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 13:01:10 (GMT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Current and future premie
Subject: Like ex-mug said
Message:
You keep referring to Maharaji in the third person with a capital 'H'. What's up with that? Is he God to you?
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Date: Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 07:10:13 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Current and future premie
Subject: He isn't giving Anything
Message:
nothing. A chance to watch a video with some other people in
a room. Or, if you are really lucky, a chance to travel and pay a bunch of travel expenses to sit live in a convention center and hear him talk with a bunch of people around you.

Just like hundreds of other charismatic leaders. So fucking what?
You are forgetting you audience. We were there. I was there recently. This gift is nothing. A few meditation techniques that are all around all over taught and published in many many places
(including some of these web sites)
Yes, it feels warm and cozy to sit and 'share' an experience with a group of people. I did it yesterday with people from work.
I was forced to go and went dreading it all the way and STILL left feeling good because it is human nature to enjoy sharing that type of thing. He knows that and capitalizes on it.

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Date: Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 04:09:10 (GMT)
From: VP
Email: None
To: Current and future premie
Subject: Great question
Message:
and thank you for asking!

Taking the scenario as you have given it (assuming that I do believe Knowlege is love and joy, etc.) I can tell you that I would not do it the way Maharaji has done it lately. (Have you read the instructor's manual on this site? If you haven't, it's fascinating reading!) I can tell you that aspirant process is not the way I would go about enlightening people IF I had something real and precious to give.

I would not make it secretive. I would not make the process take years, or even months. I would give it to anyone and everyone who asked, not just those I judged to be 'ready.' If we have something real inside that belongs to each one of us, we don't have to get ready to find this--it's already there!

If knowledge is truly what he espouses it to be, isn't every human being worthy of this great gift, this love, this inner peace? Of course they are. I would try to get a television show or advertisement or a website. I would shout it through the streets.

This is assuming that I think Knowledge is really what he claims, which I don't.

Thank you very much for asking. Again, good question.

Take Care,
VP

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Date: Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 15:11:00 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: VP
Subject: Great question
Message:
Here's the funny part: you can buy cd's with brain entraining signals which pretty much stimulate the same neuropathways as meditation does. So you get that peace, that joy, that love from your inner voyage that much easier. Go right into bliss. Seen it happen myself. Honust Injun. Digital Enlightenment.

Goober needs to get up to speed. It takes waaaaay too long to get, and then practise Knowledge for it to 'work.' Existing technolgy is much, much faster and cheaper. If you're into such things. Personally I prefer a pint...

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Date: Sat, Jul 15, 2000 at 02:32:03 (GMT)
From: VP
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Where can I get one?
Message:
You tried this and it works, or are you just pulling my leg, too?

VP the gullible

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Date: Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 04:35:51 (GMT)
From: Current premie
Email: None
To: VP
Subject: Great question
Message:
A television show? What would you call it? 'The Knowledge of All Knowledges' or 'Inner Peace for the Heart' or something else?
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Date: Sat, Jul 15, 2000 at 11:21:00 (GMT)
From: Hal
Email: None
To: Current premie
Subject: Notice you dropped 'future premie'- good ! nt
Message:
s
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Date: Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 07:43:33 (GMT)
From: Current AND Future Premie
Email: None
To: Hal
Subject: Notice you dropped 'future premie'- good ! nt
Message:
Listen HAL (Do you know Dave Bowman, by the way?) I wanted to practice Knowledge so I dropped the future part to save some time. However, any premie who labels himself a current premie probably feels that in a future 'now' he will be a premie also. Since I've had Knowledge since May 2, 1982 and I've gone through just about everything this life has to offer and I still love to listen to Maharaji and practice Knowledge,and even if everyone in the world told me I was a stupid brainwashed cult member, I wouldn't ever consider becoming an 'ex' premie. I just wouldn't enjoy life nearly as much!
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Date: Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 10:52:53 (GMT)
From: Hal
Email: None
To: Current AND Future Premie
Subject: Notice you dropped 'future premie'- good ! nt
Message:
Hi,

Fair enough. Bare in mind though that many of the most dedicated premies who prayed that they should never leave the lotus feet are now exes. I also , not very long ago said to a friend of mine, ( new years eve 2000 ) that I hoped I never would leave Knowledge and Maha. So really noone knows the future or what they will be in the future, NOBODY KNOWS!

Believe it or not you may at some point in the future feel that you have outgrown the need for a gooroo. Not that you necessarily will forget your inner experience or the connection to your 'heart'. If you need to leave at some time then there are others who you can talk to about it here.

As I have previously said I can't understand the inspiration you guys find in the whole trip of being controlled and belittled by someone who considers you inferior and unworthy but that's your business.

I am just as content and at times discontent as I was before but I am now enjoying the freedom to take responsibility for my life. What I do , what I express, is mine again. That feels good.
I still feel the peace and absense of thought when I sit quietly, even without using the techniques as he suggests.

No I don't know Dave Bowman. I sincerely wish you every happiness and joy in your life.

Hal

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Date: Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 03:35:57 (GMT)
From: Current and Future One
Email: None
To: Hal
Subject: Since Maharaji is the only one that has made
Message:
consistent sense to me over the thousands of times that I've seen and listened to him over the years, I don't think that's going to change in this lifetime. So although I appreciate your thoughtful response, I will continue to listen to him until someone or something better comes along or he changes and becomes something that I can't stand. But even if he became a raging drag queen, I think I'd still listen to him as long as I felt that feeling that he's inspired in me for so long. Ciao!
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Date: Sat, Jul 15, 2000 at 02:29:44 (GMT)
From: VP
Email: None
To: Current premie
Subject: Great question
Message:
I meant to say an infomercial, not a TV show.

Is that the only response you had to my post? To criticise that one thing? What did you think about the point I was trying to make?

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Date: Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 22:43:07 (GMT)
From: lotus Eater
Email: None
To: Current premie
Subject: gentle pity
Message:
I get the feeling that you feel a little sorry for us, that your last post is an attempt to make us think about how it actually is for M to present K, something that is 'just a feeling', an 'inner experience'.

Personally, after 27 years, I have come to the conclusion that what Maharaji is doing is wrong. It is a dirty business because it creates a huge amount of damage in people's lives.

I guess you probably believe he is an ordinary human being like you or me (how endearing and a bit of a relief!) and also, fortunately provided by the creator, the living master, the fulcrum of divine love in the world.

I would suggest you think this through, a little at a time.

I did not realize I was in a bhakti cult, I believed Maharaji really was special; but when I could no longer convince myself that he didn't have any responsibility for what he, and his organisation, was doing; I was forced to question my belief.

I thought I didn't believe, I thought I knew. I was wrong.

I hope you stick around a bit, and investigate this website, not just the forum. And here's a question: Would you like to have a master who genuinely cares for his students, or do you prefer the olympian model?

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Date: Sat, Jul 15, 2000 at 16:18:46 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: current premie, no future
Subject: Great question
Message:
When I go to a chat room that I am not familiar with, normally I watch, for a while before getting in,some other times there are those that walk in straight from the door and start something that nobody really want to know about, that person is usually backed to a wall with everyone barking at him.

Is that what you feel, if so you deserve it, you know why. Who the hell do you think you are coming in and trying to make us swallow what we have vomitted, I regurgerated that fat little spoiled indian brat long time ago, he is not tasty. Full stop. Who do you think you are commenting on what sort of experience we have, or wether we have any, that is also none of your bussiness. To start with you sound like those jahova witnesses, or some misionary down the road preaching about jesus. Is this what your experience with what you call knowledge is all about, if so , you really need to consider finding a better rippoff merchant than fatty.

The question that I want to ask YOU is : do you think that those people around here are confused? or that this is another cult? or maybe we are lost in our minds? Oh yea we have driffted away from the mother of all fatties because we let or minds lead us instead of fatty. Wake up to yourself and start questioning yourself

If you want to compare experiences then let us begin, anytime I meditate I still see the light, so stick that up your nose MR/MRS current and future premie that has omitted the future. You have been here only a little while and are alreay in dought whether you will be a premie tommorow or not. Oh I know what you going to say, please go and say is to a practicing premie instead.

I think you are nothing more than a spinless wimp that can not stand up and face the truth, that fatty is a con merchant, and that you do not need him to discover your own self, rather he is the one that is after your ass shaffting you and your walet. If you do not belive, I can help you with that :

Anyone agrees that fatty is a rippoff merchant or not?

Salam

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Date: Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 03:29:26 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: The worse one: He sold us GOD (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Thurs, Jul 13, 2000 at 21:02:27 (GMT)
From: Deputy Dog
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Meditation, the ego, and spiritual growth
Message:
First off I’d like to apologise to Michael for calling him a prick some weeks ago. That was totally inappropriate behaviour. Feels good to apologise. Let’s just say we disagree about what it means to be a spiritual person.

Second, if I may, I would like to say a few things about a problem I think ex-es might have with meditation. IMO the problem associated with mediation, dealt with below, could be the source of a lot of the anger and disillusionment on this site.

The following text is definitely influenced by Ram Dass.

*****************************************************************

Meditation the Ego and Spiritual Growth

The ego is a set of thoughts we live in. It’s like a familiar room where we feel safe. We use our ego to filter our experiences of the outside world. Over the years we develop strong mental habits of perceiving the universe and we come to be very secure within these habits. We feel that we need our ego to survive. We also feel that if we give it up we could lose our identity and go crazy.

The ego has convinced us (conned us) into thinking that we are our identity, our social role, our habits. But all the great spiritual teachers have said that we are infinitely more than a collection of thoughts and habits - we are more than the ego room by which we define ourselves.

Our ego renders safe an unruly world, but like a dictator, it offers us paternalistic security at the expense of our freedom. We are secure in our ego, but to the extent that we are afraid to venture outside it, it becomes a prison.

So what is the conflict between meditation and the ego? Well, as we begin to deepen our experience of meditation, (any meditation) the “prison” walls begin to crack and many people become uneasy about this. The ego has been a familiar home since we were about seven years old, and some people become uncomfortable as these familiar walls begin to crumble. Some people prefer the safety of the ego prison to the uncertainty of the larger reality.

When we meditate, we begin to give up our labels, definitions, everyday concepts and ideas, and this can make us feel uncomfortable. As we loosen the hold of our over-learned way of thinking, our familiar habits, our “shoulds”, our rigid models of the world, our compulsive behaviours, we may start to feel uncomfortable. We may become confused as to what “reality” is.

As our old “realities” crumble we may become dissociated. But we should keep on meditating, we should keep on keeping on. These are just temporary growing pains. They are part of the process.

The fact is that we will never be able to get rid our ego, but we can change it from being a prison to home base. We can always go in and use it like an office when we need to be efficient. With meditation we can have the best of both worlds.

All spiritual traditions teach that the path of freedom is through detachment from our habits of ego. When we meditate we break up these old habits, develop broader structures, break through those and develop still broader structures. As our mental habits begin to lose control over us, we create space for new possibilities, new realities, and new experiences. We are no longer slaves of our past conditioning. That’s freedom!

So we need to relax and enjoy the journey. Be prepared to give up your old opinions, shoulds, ideas and concepts about life as you deepen our awareness. Doubt demands that we examine what we are doing with a critical eye. In your examination include the doubt itself. If the doubt seems to be just another dodge of the ego, suspend it and proceed.

Trust your heart and be truthful to yourself and your own experience. Trust the process meditation puts us through! Relax! It’s a benign conspiracy. When we transcend our ego, our mental programming, and open our hearts, we come into tune with that from the whole universe flows. Have faith in the power of meditation (any meditation). Meditation will deepen our awareness and our experience of life. It improves the quality of our experience of life. IMO we can never be happy living just in our ego. It’s a limited trip.

My experience is that meditation takes me to another safer and more secure place within, a place that has an intuitive validity. Be aware of the growing pains and trust in your natural wisdom to know what’s right for you. Remember, being proud of your ego is like being a prisoner who is proud of his large cell.

*****************************************************************

Thanks for letting me pontificate. I’ve enjoyed posting here and I feel that I’ve connected with a few people, like Way, Anth, Katie, and of course my old bud Jim, but it’s time for me to move on.

Goodbye and I wish you all the best.

Deputy Dog

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Date: Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 10:55:30 (GMT)
From: Hal
Email: None
To: Deputy Dog
Subject: Meditation, the ego, and spiritual growth
Message:
Hi Dep,

I think that what you prove is that there are so many much more lucid teachers than Maha. When people want to quote something profound they so often call on someone other than Maha, I wonder why? Ram Das followed an imposter you know. His Maharaji wasn't a perfect master as he was around at the same time as Sri Hans.
What about K. Gibran who Maha used to quote. He wasn't a follower of Sri Hans , who calimed that he was the only true revealer of 'that experience' at the time . Why does Maha quote Gibran , someone who didn't have 'true knowledge'? It makes no sense to me . This whole claim that something exclusive is being offered is my dispute with you, not that there is no experience inside.

Not so long ago Maha was asked by an aspirant whether the nollidge was the same as other meditions. He just said 'nope' and then chuckled derisively a moment later to be accompanied a by lots of premies laughing. It was a bit nauseating to hear the premies laughing as if they had something so unobtainable by anyone outside the cult.

Dep, you seem like a sincere person. Do you really look at the issues? Or does it only matter to you that you feel something in meditation? It's difficult to really see clearly when you're involved but now I'm out of it I'm quite astounded sometimes what a subtle fog he immerses followers in.

Have a good life Dep,

Hal

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Date: Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 07:48:39 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: Deputy Dog
Subject: Maharaji is full of ego: Watches, cars, blondes,
Message:
mansions, cars, planes; he is so so so full of it, you just can see it. He is a cocky pompous god.

I don't buy what most premies think that maharaji talks from the heart. It's a mental process that occurs there and his intelligence reflects on what he talks. Same boring stuff, everytime. Sometimes he gets lucky and it sounds good, but the videos for PWK are pathetic. You like that?

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Date: Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 17:36:31 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: SB
Subject: gourmet catering, expensive clothes,
Message:
expensive hotel suites, expensive vacations, boats, yacht(s), helecopter(s), helecopter pad(s), tennis courts, swimming pools, land, more land, glider(s), motercycles, private tutoring, expensive liquor (allegedly) and cigarettes, drugs (allegedly), expensive pet care, expensive stereos, many thousands of CDs, state-of-the-art recording studio, at least ten computers, gourmet food specially flown in, warehouses full of gifts from premies, jeeps, gold toilet seats, free servants, ...
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Date: Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 05:59:07 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: G
Subject: gourmet catering, expensive clothes,LOL
Message:
Funcy materialistic greedy god we found.

WHAT WERE WE THINKING?? Forgot. We were not allowed to think.

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Date: Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 00:21:58 (GMT)
From: Sir David
Email: None
To: Deputy Dog
Subject: All theory which is flawed - where is the love?
Message:
Nobody has ever trancended their so called ego or normal identity. This is old hat and stuff which we read about before coming to Maharaji and knowledge. It's a theory which has never been put into practise and never will because it is fundamentally flawed.

I suspect that you are Keith or Harry. This is the sort of stuff which they write about which has been copied from Gurus who have never transcended their 'ego'. What a ridiculous concept and one which can lead to mental illness and disassociation if anyone attempts to actually practise it.

You have just read some books. You are all talk and theory and in the first grade when it comes to actual experience. You must be because you have used the above 'discourse' as a passive aggressive attempt to rile people here. That is transparent and you admit as much in your introduction.

Nobody who has any experience of life would ever use it to preach to people in your passive aggressive way. Your motivation is one-upmanship and that is clear to me. I have had experience of meditation (as most people here have) and it is nothing at all like this diatribe of Ram Dass who is just some self appointed know-all guru. In meditation there is no conflict, there is no seperate self or dual selves at odds with each other.

Therefore I surmise that you have never experienced meditation. You have only read some books on the subject and have no experience but only theory. Point of fact: someone who has experienced meditation would never use their experience to gain political or intallectual points in an argument. Meditation is without conflict and is a personal experience which brings harmony and peace with others and will not create a conflict or an argument. Neither will meditation cause friction between people or annoy anyone.

There is no striving to achieve meditation. There is no path to tread to reach meditation. Meditation happens at such times when a person feels still and at peace with themselves and all of the world. At such times I have sometimes felt an unconditional love which loves me. Such a love does not require me to walk any path or strive to reach any goal. Such a love loves me as I am, with all of my faults and imperfections. Such a love does not require me to be anything else but what I am - human.

We as premies and ex-premies have often heard or read the sort of thing which you've written in your post but we know by experience that such theories are false and without an ounce of truth. It is only self appointed know-all gurus who spout such falsehoods because it helps their guruship. And there is no love there.

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Date: Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 14:45:48 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: Sir David
Subject: Great Post! (nt)
Message:
Very good!!!
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Date: Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 10:58:00 (GMT)
From: Hal
Email: None
To: Sir David
Subject: Very heartfelt stuff Thanks Dave NT
Message:
we
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Date: Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 10:23:40 (GMT)
From: Oliver
Email: None
To: Sir David
Subject: Great post Sir Dave (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 00:21:39 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Deputy Dog
Subject: Television, cocaine and coffee filters
Message:
Sounds as if Ram Dass is really onto something new and exciting. I've never heard such profound ideas expressed in such a dynamic style. This has been very helpful indeed, Dog. Too bad you're leaving.
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Date: Thurs, Jul 13, 2000 at 22:31:21 (GMT)
From: P-man
Email: None
To: Deputy Dog
Subject: Meditation, the ego, and spiritual growth
Message:
Thanks for puking all over me before you left, Dog. Don't hurry back.
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Date: Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 02:26:59 (GMT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: P-man
Subject: Meditation, the ego, and spiritual growth
Message:
Just like a premie to piss all over the place and run. Like we never heard this shit before. And like we really need more of it, it's done such good for us throughout the years. Bonzo, is all I have to say. Pure bonzo.
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Date: Thurs, Jul 13, 2000 at 21:40:13 (GMT)
From: Way
Email: None
To: Deputy Dog
Subject: Re:Meditation, the ego, and spiritual growth
Message:
DD,

Let us know if you ever kick the guru to the curb! Good luck!

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Date: Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 02:45:41 (GMT)
From: VP
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: Another Gem from Ram Dass
Message:
Bye, Deputy
I'll leave you with a telling scene from the book Be Here Now by your friend Baba Ram Dass.

It is the account of what happened when Bhagwan Dass takes Baba Ram Dass to meet his guru:
______________________________________________________________

'...then the Guru says to Bhagwan Dass, 'You have a picture of me?'

Bhagwan Dass nods, 'Yes'

'Give it to him,' says the man (guru) pointing at me.

'That's very nice, I think, giving me a picture of himself and I smile and nod appreciatively. But I am still not going to touch his feet. (VP's note: good first instinct!)

Then he says, 'You came in a big car?' Of course that's the one thing I'm real uptight about.

'Yeah.'

So he looks at me and smiles and says, 'You give it to me?' (VP: sign number one that you should run like hell!)

I started to say, 'Wha...' and Bhagwan Dass looks up- he's lying there- and he says, 'Maharaji, (meaning 'great king') if you want it you can have it--it's yours.'

And I said, 'No,--now wait a minute--you can't give away David's car like that. That isn't our car...' and this old man is laughing. In fact everyone is laughing...except me.

Then he says, 'You make much money in America?'

So I flick thorough all of my years as a professor and all of my years as a smuggler and all of my different dramas in my mind and I said, 'Yeah.'

'How much did you make?'

Well, I said, at one time--and I sort of upped the figure a bit, you know, my ego $25,000.

'You'll buy a car like that for me?'

And I remember what went through my mind...He doesn't even know my name and already he wants a $7,000 vehicle.

And I said, 'Well,maybe...' The whole thing was freaking me out so much.
________________________________________________________________

So, here is this guy who knows exactly what is going on, and chooses to ignore what he knows. Hey, just like some of us!

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Date: Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 11:00:45 (GMT)
From: Hal
Email: None
To: VP
Subject: Another Gem from VP nt
Message:
hgf
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Date: Thurs, Jul 13, 2000 at 18:19:29 (GMT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Dear AG forum GOD! (OT)
Message:
Dear GOD,
Hey, I only have AG's url at work and forgot to email it to myself, AGAIN. Could you post it here for me so I can book mark it on my friend's machine? I'm sure they'll appreciate it . I know I will. :)
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 01:07:26 (GMT)
From: Forum God
Email: None
To: Robyn
Subject: Dear AG forum GOD! (OT)
Message:
Perhap they might also like to try The Dead Chatroom where they can talk to themselves or any passing living dead person.
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Date: Thurs, Jul 13, 2000 at 20:34:28 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Robyn
Subject: Dear AG forum GOD! (OT-ish)
Message:
Nah, God (alias Sir Dave) has obviously been discumnockerated elsewhere for the time being (and who s/he? Who? ... the Time Being, of course ...)

So, in his, ... excuse me (ahem)... His absence, have this one on me, Robyn:

http://www.paradise-web.com/plus_le/plus.mirage?who=forumlite

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Date: Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 13:24:35 (GMT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: Dear AG forum GOD! (OT-ish)
Message:
Thanks Chris and GOD! :)
Love,
me
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Date: Thurs, Jul 13, 2000 at 17:26:36 (GMT)
From: Coach
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Alien Spaceship Found
Message:
This week's Trivia Quiz

What's this got to do with anything?

This entry, Divine United Organisation Domain:balyogeshwar.org.in
, in this list.LIST OF DOMAINS REGISTERED IN INDIA BY DIFFERENT ORGANISATIONS

Is DUO poised for a comeback? Ants of the world, rejoice.

Coach

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