Forum V: Archive
Compiled: Mon, Jul 24, 2000 at 09:20:21 (GMT)
From: Jul 13, 2000 To: Jul 22, 2000 Page: 4 Of: 5


jewels -:- What you are searching for, is within you. -:- Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 19:10:30 (GMT)
__ Jim -:- Who said you're 'searching' for anything? -:- Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 16:02:13 (GMT)
__ __ Concerned One -:- I'm searching for Jim, anyone know who he is -:- Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 18:14:56 (GMT)
__ __ __ Jim -:- Get the away, Satan (nt) -:- Wed, Jul 19, 2000 at 04:46:54 (GMT)
__ __ cq -:- Who said you're 'searching' for anything? -:- Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 16:53:20 (GMT)
__ A duped I -:- is within you. NT -:- Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 04:08:53 (GMT)
__ Joe -:- On What do you base that? -:- Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 19:24:22 (GMT)
__ AJW -:- Correct- I just swallowed my watch (nt) -:- Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 15:22:43 (GMT)
__ __ jewels -:- laughed and laughed...where do you come from.... -:- Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 17:53:02 (GMT)
__ __ __ Way -:- concerns and objections -:- Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 19:33:23 (GMT)
__ Hal -:- Never given a cent????? -:- Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 11:43:20 (GMT)
__ __ Elaine -:- Never given a cent????? -:- Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 15:58:42 (GMT)
__ __ __ SB -:- This woman needs to stop posting here: I vote out -:- Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 05:05:11 (GMT)
__ __ __ Hal -:- Elaine -:- Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 18:09:39 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ sam -:- effort -:- Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 04:43:36 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Elaine -:- Hal -:- Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 19:09:09 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ 'god' -:- Go preach someplace else Elaine. -:- Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 05:13:40 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Elaine -:- Got it off my chest -Done now.....nt -:- Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 13:45:58 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Hal -:- Pleasantville -:- Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 19:43:03 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Elaine -:- Pleasantville -:- Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 23:42:21 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- Hey, what if... -:- Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 23:56:40 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Elaine -:- Hey, what if... -:- Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 00:02:38 (GMT)
__ __ __ GERRY -:- No...wire hangers...EVER !!! -:- Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 17:26:05 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ P-man -:- gErRy -:- Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 18:47:25 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Hal -:- No...wire hangers...EVER !!! -:- Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 18:15:33 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Elaine -:- No...wire hangers...EVER !!! -:- Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 19:25:12 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ cq -:- Hoo! that's rich, Elaine -:- Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 17:09:15 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- Excuse me, Elaine, your slip is showing... -:- Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 19:52:25 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Hal -:- It's that time of the month Elaine............. -:- Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 19:46:02 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Salam -:- Gerry, learn how to stop. -:- Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 19:36:47 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- Earth to Planet Salami -:- Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 20:04:58 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ sALAM -:- Earth to Planet Salami -:- Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 21:43:12 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- Always happy to oblige, Salam -:- Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 23:12:53 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Salam -:- Always happy to oblige, Salam -:- Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 00:25:17 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- Thanks, Salam and... -:- Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 01:02:17 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Elaine -:- Earth to Gerry -:- Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 23:23:35 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Weather Reporter SB -:- Where were you last night? There is full moon now. -:- Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 12:43:29 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- Good advice, Elaine, thanks -:- Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 23:38:53 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Elaine -:- Good advice, Elaine, thanks -:- Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 00:00:15 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- Elaine loves her ad hominem attacks... -:- Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 00:26:06 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- Elaine you light up my life -:- Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 23:52:24 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ SB -:- Isn't she a weirdo? -:- Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 13:40:29 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ P-man -:- No...wire hangers...EVER !!! -:- Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 19:33:21 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- whoops it didn't post at first and thanks Hal nt -:- Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 18:24:24 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ gerry -:- no...wire...hangers...EVER!!! (the sequel) -:- Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 17:50:27 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ test -:- test nt -:- Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 17:38:47 (GMT)
__ __ Hal -:- Sorry for the last paragraph............. -:- Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 12:06:44 (GMT)
__ __ __ Salam -:- Sorry for the last paragraph............. -:- Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 13:22:55 (GMT)
__ Current and Future Premie -:- Right on, Jewels! I couldn't have said it better! -:- Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 03:43:13 (GMT)
__ __ Michael -:- Right on, Jewels! I couldn't have said it better! -:- Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 15:57:25 (GMT)
__ __ JtF -:- Right on, Jewels! I couldn't have said it better! -:- Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 11:07:01 (GMT)
__ __ __ Salam -:- To Jewel and supporters -:- Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 19:15:35 (GMT)
__ Elaine -:- What you are searching for, is within you. -:- Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 21:35:59 (GMT)
__ __ jewels -:- thanx elaine for your clear and concise reply.. -:- Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 17:39:24 (GMT)
__ __ __ Elaine -:- You're very welcome -:- Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 23:37:34 (GMT)
__ __ __ gerry -:- So true, jewels -:- Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 17:59:09 (GMT)
__ Jerry -:- What you are searching for, is within you. -:- Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 19:45:08 (GMT)
__ __ jewel -:- What you are searching for, is within you. -:- Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 20:10:01 (GMT)
__ __ __ Jerry -:- What you are searching for, is within you. -:- Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 20:52:41 (GMT)
__ __ hamzen -:- Jerry, don't you find it weird that premies -:- Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 20:02:53 (GMT)
__ __ __ Jerry -:- Jerry, don't you find it weird that premies -:- Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 21:03:54 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ SB -:- They need M to 'guide' the, because they... -:- Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 23:55:25 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ ham -:- I'm not so sure Jerry, I think some of them -:- Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 21:35:21 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Jerry -:- I'm not so sure Jerry, I think some of them -:- Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 21:54:32 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ ham -:- I'm not so sure Jerry, I think some of them -:- Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 22:25:30 (GMT)
__ __ __ jewels -:- Jerry, don't you find it weird that premies -:- Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 20:19:10 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ SB -:- Is that you, Zen? -:- Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 05:38:18 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ hamzen -:- You are completely fooling yourself -:- Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 20:41:24 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ jewels -:- You are completely fooling yourself -:- Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 20:51:18 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Jerry -:- Good question -:- Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 21:35:36 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ hamzen -:- So how, considering how 'realized' he is, does -:- Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 21:10:28 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ jewels -:- forum mechanix -:- Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 21:20:24 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ hamzen -:- forum mechanix -:- Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 22:27:41 (GMT)
__ __ __ SB -:- So true! LOL (nt) -:- Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 20:09:51 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ jewels -:- what you are looking for... -:- Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 20:35:41 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ SB -:- When did you receive K Jewel? (nt) -:- Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 21:17:18 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Jerry -:- what you are looking for... -:- Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 22:06:32 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ ham -:- Jerr, have you ever had those type of experiences -:- Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 22:31:25 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jerry -:- Jerr, have you ever had those type of experiences -:- Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 23:11:37 (GMT)
__ hamzen -:- Pray tell me oh wise one, exactly what experience -:- Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 19:19:30 (GMT)
__ __ jewels -:- Pray tell me oh wise one, exactly what experience -:- Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 20:42:34 (GMT)
__ __ __ JohnT -:- his spell ... that's their problem -:- Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 13:27:30 (GMT)
__ __ __ hamzen -:- If you think that's all he is saying, then you -:- Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 20:59:52 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ jewels -:- If you think that's all he is saying, then you -:- Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 21:15:44 (GMT)

Zorro,the misguided dip -:- May I suggest -:- Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 07:08:53 (GMT)
__ Silver -:- May I suggest -:- Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 07:30:16 (GMT)

Salam -:- Yet more on cults -:- Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 05:52:41 (GMT)
__ SB -:- Yet more on cults -:- Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 00:42:16 (GMT)
__ Salam -:- and brain washing -:- Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 16:17:49 (GMT)
__ __ hamzen -:- Church of Sub-genius, Genesis P Orridge?? -:- Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 18:49:48 (GMT)
__ __ __ cq -:- Church of Sub-genius? Bob Dobbs? Robert Crumb? -:- Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 14:31:32 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ ham -:- Thanx for that cq, excellent link, -:- Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 22:28:44 (GMT)

SB -:- Why Maharaji says that K doesn't work without ... -:- Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 00:48:42 (GMT)
__ Jerry -:- Why Maharaji says that K doesn't work without ... -:- Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 01:30:00 (GMT)
__ __ Mel Bourne -:- Spot on Jerry !! -:- Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 10:22:25 (GMT)
__ __ __ Jerry -:- Spot on Jerry !! -:- Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 16:19:00 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Selene -:- still I agree with Gerry it sounds like a zoo -:- Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 06:08:54 (GMT)
__ __ SB -:- maybe they like to be sheep.... -:- Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 00:39:46 (GMT)
__ __ shp -:- Reply to Jerry -:- Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 05:09:04 (GMT)
__ __ __ salam -:- ex-premies stop being nasty -:- Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 10:37:37 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ shp -:- reply to salam -:- Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 15:50:25 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ SB -:- Triple SHAME ON YOU shp! -:- Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 12:30:24 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Salam -:- ship -:- Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 02:18:23 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ shp -:- reply to Salam -:- Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 20:56:27 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Polyana -:- blablablazzzzzblablazzzzsshp zzzzz -:- Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 02:35:12 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ SB -:- Shame on you SHP. (nt) -:- Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 05:25:20 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ SB -:- Shame on you, SHP!! -:- Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 20:18:24 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ shp -:- reply to SB -:- Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 21:18:45 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ SB -:- I'm not reading your post: You're strange. (nt) -:- Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 02:12:24 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Hal -:- I'm not reading your post: You're strange. (nt) -:- Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 17:34:36 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Hal -:- F.A I didn't post that to S:B: -:- Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 18:43:54 (GMT)
__ __ __ Jerry -:- What kind of premie are you? -:- Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 05:53:27 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ shp -:- Interesting question -:- Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 16:57:56 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ SB -:- FA: Please, SHP/Sandy doesn't belong here. -:- Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 05:20:20 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ shp -:- So now premies have to watch their TONE, -:- Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 21:32:27 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ SB -:- So now premies have to watch their TONE, -:- Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 21:09:00 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ shp -:- Scatalogical -:- Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 21:35:25 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Elaine -:- So now premies have to watch their TONE, -:- Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 23:20:29 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ SB -:- Shut up Elaine -:- Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 21:12:37 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ shp -:- Wassup? -:- Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 21:53:36 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Elaine -:- Wassup? -:- Wed, Jul 19, 2000 at 00:59:14 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- oh come on Elaine that is too much -:- Wed, Jul 19, 2000 at 04:11:39 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Elaine -:- Selene -:- Wed, Jul 19, 2000 at 17:24:45 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Forum Admin -:- FA: Please, SHP/Sandy doesn't belong here. -:- Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 12:34:38 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ SB: Pain ain't the word -:- Sandy is laughing at the pain of exes and suggest -:- Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 02:40:28 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ shp -:- SB, you are either a goddam liar or just very -:- Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 04:33:02 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- no you just like to provoke -:- Wed, Jul 19, 2000 at 04:38:58 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ shp -:- no, I do not just like to provoke (nt) -:- Wed, Jul 19, 2000 at 13:14:00 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Lotus Eater -:- to shp -:- Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 22:24:19 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ shp -:- reply to Lotus Eater -:- Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 22:45:06 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ hamzen -:- SHP, you really are the archetypal, new age -:- Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 19:12:51 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ shp -:- reply to hamzen -:- Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 21:49:25 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ hamzen -:- Usual shallow response from you -:- Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 22:49:27 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ shp -:- an unmoderated collection of ongoing threaded disc -:- Wed, Jul 19, 2000 at 01:22:38 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Elaine -:- collection of ongoing threaded discussions -:- Wed, Jul 19, 2000 at 03:44:49 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Hal -:- I have a question shp???????? -:- Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 18:42:06 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ shp -:- reply to Hal -:- Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 22:34:33 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Hal -:- Thanks shp- you tried but didn't answer at all.... -:- Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 16:42:27 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- that's really nice, Sandy... -:- Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 03:14:31 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ shp -:- back to you gerry -:- Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 04:53:12 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- back to you gerry -:- Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 17:06:25 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ shp -:- back to you gerry -:- Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 21:24:04 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Jerry -:- Interesting question -:- Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 18:34:38 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- sheep I take back anything nice I ever said about -:- Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 17:13:11 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ SB -:- SHP is Elaine's alter ego. (nt) ...looks like it.. -:- Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 20:20:24 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ shp -:- all the best to you (nt) -:- Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 18:32:27 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Elaine -:- all the best to you -:- Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 21:24:14 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ SB observing that -:- Elaine is full of pupu!! Totally. -:- Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 02:30:33 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ shp -:- reply to Elaine -:- Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 23:03:25 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Elaine -:- reply to Elaine -:- Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 23:30:36 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ shp -:- reply to Elaine -:- Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 23:45:56 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ hamzen -:- Have a bit more confidence in yourself and you can -:- Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 22:53:02 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Elaine -:- Have a bit more confidence in yourself and you can -:- Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 23:14:19 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ hamzen -:- Cest la vie -:- Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 23:08:58 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ SB -:- Elaine:Why so touchy and defensive, always. -:- Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 00:02:54 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Smoove B -:- all the best to you -:- Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 22:38:20 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Hal -:- Jerry you're really on form - superb stuff . nt -:- Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 10:33:27 (GMT)
__ __ SB -:- I'm still thinking -:- Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 03:30:32 (GMT)

Ebay Alert -:- more!!!! hey, someone else thinks he's a cult lead -:- Sat, Jul 15, 2000 at 16:45:09 (GMT)
__ Joe -:- Who is Guru Maharaj Ji? -:- Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 19:34:11 (GMT)
__ __ la-ex -:- Who is Guru Maharaj Ji? -:- Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 01:40:24 (GMT)
__ __ Marianne -:- Who is Guru Maharaj Ji? -:- Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 01:08:36 (GMT)
__ __ Elaine -:- Who is Guru Maharaj Ji? -:- Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 20:40:59 (GMT)

Ebay alert -:- Lord of the Universe!!! cheap!!!! -:- Sat, Jul 15, 2000 at 16:42:07 (GMT)
__ Salam -:- Lord of the Universe!!! cheap!!!! -:- Sat, Jul 15, 2000 at 18:16:08 (GMT)
__ __ the bidding is up to -:- 14.85 and there are only 3 hours left nt -:- Sat, Jul 15, 2000 at 19:22:39 (GMT)

cq -:- Q to EV: did M's mahatmas ever claim he was God? -:- Sat, Jul 15, 2000 at 15:29:08 (GMT)
__ cq -:- Is Charanand still with the Maha? -:- Sat, Jul 15, 2000 at 15:34:35 (GMT)
__ __ Hal -:- Is Charanand still with the Maha? -:- Sat, Jul 15, 2000 at 19:06:38 (GMT)
__ __ __ Curious George -:- Is Charanand still with the Maha? -:- Wed, Jul 19, 2000 at 16:18:38 (GMT)
__ __ __ cq -:- Charanand WAS in the guru business, Hal ... -:- Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 12:29:33 (GMT)

cq -:- From the horses' mouth -:- Sat, Jul 15, 2000 at 14:31:12 (GMT)
__ Marianne -:- Oh Chris!!!! -:- Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 03:19:27 (GMT)
__ __ cq -:- Who me???? -:- Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 13:01:06 (GMT)
__ cq -:- latest revision: M's mansion a 'leaking bungalow' -:- Sat, Jul 15, 2000 at 15:07:48 (GMT)
__ __ SB -:- BS!!!! -:- Sat, Jul 15, 2000 at 21:32:03 (GMT)
__ __ G -:- 'the roof leaks' -:- Sat, Jul 15, 2000 at 21:07:07 (GMT)
__ __ __ G -:- About 400,000 for road improvements -:- Sat, Jul 15, 2000 at 21:55:27 (GMT)
__ __ Selene -:- blueprints of the humble little home -:- Sat, Jul 15, 2000 at 20:02:58 (GMT)
__ __ __ bill -:- dont fergit the miami mansion. (nt) -:- Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 00:43:39 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Joe -:- dont fergit the mansions in UK, Aust. and India.nt -:- Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 16:22:56 (GMT)


Date: Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 19:10:30 (GMT)
From: jewels
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: What you are searching for, is within you.
Message:
What you are searching for is within you.
This is the message. Anyone! who proclaims this (rather trite and obvious - but essential and true) message, will receive my attention and acknowledgment. Maharaji has made it his mission to remind people of this message. I support this. Those who confuse the messenger with the message...well, that is the first perversion of truth. You fall in love with the music teacher and music flies out the window...Anyway...I have never given a cent to Maharaji and/or Elan Vital. Yet I use the techniques daily to remind myself of this fundamental truth. One thing is clear to me...I do need an external medium to reflect something back to me...i.e. I can only see my face in a mirror....and I would have gone on searching hi and lo, had not someone come along and said to me categorically: I can show you God. And so it came about.
I remember hearing that and thinking to myself...okay mister..either you do what you say...or else I will assasinate you. I literally went to my first event in Rome with that attitude.
He gave me the 'mirror' and that was that...I can choose to use it or not. Maharaji is not an issue in my life. I am immensely grateful, yes...but hey...I'm on my own from here on. And he has never said anything else...or I have never heard anything else.
I guess here too it lies in the eyes or ears of the beholder.
You know, even if a murderer says 'don't' murder, it doesn't take away from the statement...even if you don't practise what you preach...it doesn't mean that what you preach is wrong.
So...know what you already know and move on...
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Date: Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 16:02:13 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: jewels
Subject: Who said you're 'searching' for anything?
Message:
That's the initial con, isn't it? That you're looking for something? Not anything but something in particular? Just that you forgot that you were searching, of course. Mr. Mind and all that. Superman comics .....

Give me a fucking break!

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Date: Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 18:14:56 (GMT)
From: Concerned One
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: I'm searching for Jim, anyone know who he is
Message:
should let me know. Or better yet let him know because he obviously doesn't know who he is! Who are you, Jim? Do you know who you are? And if not, why aren't you searching?
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Date: Wed, Jul 19, 2000 at 04:46:54 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Concerned One
Subject: Get the away, Satan (nt)
Message:
eeeee
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Date: Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 16:53:20 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Who said you're 'searching' for anything?
Message:
That's remarkable, Jim. I wonder how many of us have (at some time) bought into the assumption that everybody's looking for 'the answer'.

Of course, the second part of the con is when we fall for the bait and say 'oh, at last I've found what I was looking for!'.

Uh uh. What we found was one slimy fuzzball guru's get-rich scheme (though he'd like us to see it a little bit differently, for some reason). Yeah, what reason? Don't tell me he believes he's being an altruist!

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Date: Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 04:08:53 (GMT)
From: A duped I
Email: None
To: jewels
Subject: is within you. NT
Message:
NT
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Date: Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 19:24:22 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: jewels
Subject: On What do you base that?
Message:
One thing is clear to me...I do need an external medium to reflect something back to me...i.e. I can only see my face in a mirror....and I would have gone on searching hi and lo, had not someone come along and said to me categorically: I can show you God. And so it came about.

This doesn't make any sense. You say happiness is within you, but you an external 'mirror' for some reason. Why? If you claim you have been shown happiness inside you, why do you need Maharaji on the outside?

He gave me the 'mirror' and that was that...I can choose to use it or not.

No, he gave you, or a mahatma gave you, four meditation techniques. Period. There is no 'mirror' involved.

. And he has never said anything else...or I have never heard anything else.

Well, how about all the talk about how a his followers were to be 'devotees' that the purpose of your life was to devote it 100% to Maharaji, that he was 'all-knowing' and 'all-powerful.' How about all that stuff Maharaji said about surrendering your life to him? This sounds like other 'stuff' to me. Did you just not hear it?

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Date: Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 15:22:43 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: jewels
Subject: Correct- I just swallowed my watch (nt)
Message:
tic-toc
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Date: Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 17:53:02 (GMT)
From: jewels
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: laughed and laughed...where do you come from....
Message:
thanx for the giggle...
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Date: Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 19:33:23 (GMT)
From: Way
Email: None
To: jewels
Subject: concerns and objections
Message:
Jewels,

Since you are new here, you might benefit from a general overview of the issues and concerns of ex-premies. If you are interested, a letter outlining many of these concerns can be read at the 9 objections letter, which also includes a response to the recent attempt by Elan Vital to answer these objections.

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Date: Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 11:43:20 (GMT)
From: Hal
Email: None
To: jewels
Subject: Never given a cent?????
Message:
I dispute that one. Anyway if you claim you've never given a cent then you are a selfish bugger aren't you. So you let all the other premies support your little spiritual ego trip with old fatso . Disgusting !

You're telling us you never bought a tape or video? You never paid registration at a festival , or donated anything? Sorry but if you've been around for a few years , that's virtually impossible , unless of course that you are the meanest little shit in the premie community.

Unless you want to use your brain and have a real communication, I suggest you fuck off back to sycophantville with the other creeps.

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Date: Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 15:58:42 (GMT)
From: Elaine
Email: None
To: Hal
Subject: Never given a cent?????
Message:
Oh yeah,
That's it for me, Hal.
That, even with your retraction of the last paragraph, was the most unnecessary attack on a seemingly nice person that's new here.

The thread above about asking for other links - also is so unnecessarily non-productive at another's expense.

People here are just having sport and don't care about how they hurt other people - really HURT people.

I don't know what has become of the exes that post here. I know exes in my 'real' life and they wouldn't dream of being mean to a premie or anyone else for that matter. They are kind people that are mad at M and are dealing with that - they've cried bec of feeling betrayed for so many years --- but they don't,in turn, act out with other people and HURT and ATTACK them.

What disease has taken over with you people that you've forgotten normal human kindness - or even COURTESY for that matter.

You think that bec it's not 'real people' - just Cyberspace People - you all have the God given right to offend, hurt, abuse, ridicule, degrade, malign, curse, attack anyone that you feel like??

What happened to you all.

And forget saying how Maharaji used you and took your heart and money and lied to you. Boo-hoo - ok that's a terrible thing.
Got that.
All you little wallowing victims out there. Well, by God you're not going to be victims again are you?--Why no ---you will attack anyone from now on to make sure of that - no matter who they are. Jesus, grow up. You act as if you're still in the sand pile.

So, this is the answer for you?? To lash out at others wherever possible. And again - you're lashing out at probably future exes!! You don't GET that???

What is the matter with you people.

I used to understand your need to vent - and still do - about and towards Maharaji, ACT on your anger... - but this hitting below the belt to individual people is beneath all of you.
And you should be ashamed of your actions.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 05:05:11 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: Elaine
Subject: This woman needs to stop posting here: I vote out
Message:
EXES, we don't need THIS crap here. I urge to see it.
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Date: Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 18:09:39 (GMT)
From: Hal
Email: None
To: Elaine
Subject: Elaine
Message:
Yes it was an aggressive response. Sometimes I get a little peeved with premie posters who post platitudes like ' what you are looking for is within you.' You know , just before I posted that response I went to the ELK site and saw the question, why are some people satisfied with Knowledge and others aren't? Ans:
Because it takes effort and dedication ( my words , not quoted exactly ) That made me puke Elaine. That condescending attitude . Shit Elaine. The ex premie site has loads of people who made an effort like people these days getting nollige wouldn't believe!! I get irate at the preachiness of premies who come here with there fucking little truisms ; as if we haven't heard it all before , again and again and again!!

Sorry if it's all too much for you. I understand where you are. I remember getting upset myself at the 'nastiness' here when I was a relative newcomer. When you've become an ex premie you may understand why some of us lose patience with some premie posters.

Best wishes ,

Hal

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Date: Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 04:43:36 (GMT)
From: sam
Email: -
To: Hal
Subject: effort
Message:
yes! I'm sick of their platitudes too- and I used to be full of them and thought they came from my experience.
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Date: Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 19:09:09 (GMT)
From: Elaine
Email: None
To: Hal
Subject: Hal
Message:
Hal,
I respect your reply.

However, we all get upset and lose patience - it's not like I don't understand - it doesn't give us a right to level people or even be mean alittle.

I don't really care how many things you say about 'Well,I just went over to ELK and it made me puke and I just lost my job and I got put in jail,my wife left me and I'm poor and that's why I was so abusive.'

Sorry, there's never a reason for being the way people are here.Feel your feelings,fine. I'm not trying to take those away from you.
You think I don't want to blow up after reading over and over:
' Shut up Elaine. Fuck off, Elaine. Disgusting, Elaine. Shut the fuck up,Elaine!!You're a shitty person,Elaine!!' ?Over and over.
For you to not process your feelings and analyse them and try to better yourself and grow because of them is not where I think you want to be.(You see - I wanted to write -'is stupid or is unevolved or is so neanderthal' - this is an example of chosing your words, by pausing and having SELF-CONTROL,for God's sake - caring about another human being - or in your word's a FUTURE EX.)

And the point isn't whether it's too much for ME - it's the point of what's decent,what's right and what's fair.

Self-control is not used here much.Kindness isn't either.

That's my point - it's like a contagious disease - the attacking and hurting.

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Date: Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 05:13:40 (GMT)
From: 'god'
Email: None
To: Elaine
Subject: Go preach someplace else Elaine.
Message:
this people are too naughty.
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Date: Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 13:45:58 (GMT)
From: Elaine
Email: None
To: 'god'
Subject: Got it off my chest -Done now.....nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 19:43:03 (GMT)
From: Hal
Email: None
To: Elaine
Subject: Pleasantville
Message:
Elaine,

This place sure aint Pleasantville. It's not a little new age nicey nicey spiritual discussion group. In fact Elaine it's probably not what you're looking for.

This place is for ex followers of the ex lord of the universe aka Maharaji.

I don't have to be nice anymore Elaine . I have no need to pretend anymore Elaine. I'm just an ordinary human being , who gets up and gets down just like most normal folks. I am not special Elaine and that's a relief!!!!

This forum is REAL. Real emotion. Not a contrived atmosphere.

Maybe there is something for you to learn my dear. Perhaps you
are denying a part of yourself? Are you reacting to the things
which you are unable to acknowledge in yourself?

Time for an honest look at thigs Elaine. Time for the next step in your evolution perhaps?

With best intention,
Hal

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Date: Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 23:42:21 (GMT)
From: Elaine
Email: None
To: Hal
Subject: Pleasantville
Message:
Hey - I get angry, I can 'acknowledge' plenty in myself - don't be worrying your little buns about that- if you only knew -but as in the next step of my evolution you think I want to evolve into being nasty and hurtful - well, you're wrong there.

I accept your best intentions,
Elaine

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Date: Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 23:56:40 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Elaine
Subject: Hey, what if...
Message:
Elaine were really a wolf in SHeeP's clothing. I mean, Christ on the cross, they sound a whole heck of a lot alike.

Could they, nah. Well, maybe?

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Date: Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 00:02:38 (GMT)
From: Elaine
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Hey, what if...
Message:
I know - I couldn't believe how similar we can be - however, if you look closely - he is more articulate,really.

Elaine

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Date: Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 17:26:05 (GMT)
From: GERRY
Email: None
To: Elaine
Subject: No...wire hangers...EVER !!!
Message:
I can just see Elaine with her hands on her hips screaming ''WHAT IS THE MATTER WITH YOU PEOPLE !!!''

Hal's rather mild flame didn't really warrant the diatribe (yes, diatribe, Elaine) so what's Elaine REALLY mad at?

Well for one thing, she's starting to get that she's been duped, but Elaine's a slow learner and it's only creeping up on her. For the truth about Elaine, read further:

ELAINE REVERSED

People here are just having sport and don't care about how they hurt other people -

Here Elaine tells us this is all really a 'sport' to her and she doesn't care who she hurts.

I don't know what has become of the exes that post here. I know exes in my 'real' life and they wouldn't dream of being mean to a premie or anyone else for that matter. They are kind people that are mad at M and are dealing with that - they've cried bec of feeling betrayed for so many years --- but they don't,in turn, act out with other people and HURT and ATTACK them.

What disease has taken over with you people that you've forgotten normal human kindness - or even COURTESY for that matter.

You think that bec it's not 'real people' - just Cyberspace People - you all have the God given right to offend, hurt, abuse, ridicule, degrade, malign, curse, attack anyone that you feel like??

Such a chiding. Picture Elaine really working up to it now, face red, voice rising in pitch and her finger wagging right in your face...

She's angry, yes, really angry. Nobody talks to her this way in real life (no one probably takes her seriously enough.)

No, noone 'acts out' in Elaine's world: her exes are kinder, gentler. Why, they would never think of going on the internet and tell the whole world what a fraud M is. No mean talk about the cult from her friends( or maybe they've learned not to talk to her about it.)

What happened to you all?

Could this be Elaine's 'inner child' asking what's happening to her? Her little world view, nollidge and all is being seriously challenged and found wanting. In fact, it's crumbling. What's happening indeed, Elaine?

And forget saying how Maharaji used you and took your heart and money and lied to you. Boo-hoo - ok that's a terrible thing.
Got that.

All you little wallowing victims out there. Well, by God you're not going to be victims again are you?--Why no ---you will attack anyone from now on to make sure of that - no matter who they are. Jesus, grow up. You act as if you're still in the sand pile.

Here Elaine is actually picturing herself in the sand box, a victim, held back mentally, emotionally and perhaps, spiritually by here retarded life in the cult. Poor Elaine. Pobre chica Elaine.

So, this is the answer for you?? To lash out at others wherever possible. And again - you're lashing out at probably future exes!! You don't GET that???

Yes Elaine we all need answers. Here Elaine tell us she wants to lash out at us for basically telling the truth. And so she does.

What is the matter with you people.

Well you said this before, Elaine. Poor Elaine, the cognitive dissonce is really getting to her.

I used to understand your need to vent - and still do - about and towards Maharaji, ACT on your anger... - but this hitting below the belt to individual people is beneath all of you.
And you should be ashamed of your actions.

Here Elaine is expressing the deeply shame she feels. And anger, yes always the anger. She'd really like to hit us all 'below the belt.'

But her little passive-agggressive diatribe here will have to do. Because that's all she's constitutionally capable of doing. To do otherwise, she'd have to be a little more honest and truthful with us and herself. And that's a big problem for Elaine...

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Date: Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 18:47:25 (GMT)
From: P-man
Email: None
To: GERRY
Subject: gErRy
Message:
Gerry,
That's one of the best fucking posts I've ever read.
P-man
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Date: Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 18:15:33 (GMT)
From: Hal
Email: None
To: GERRY
Subject: No...wire hangers...EVER !!!
Message:
Hi Gerry,

I had no idea you were such a shit hot psychologist!!!!!

Nice post.

All the best,
Hal

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Date: Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 19:25:12 (GMT)
From: Elaine
Email: None
To: Hal
Subject: No...wire hangers...EVER !!!
Message:
Excuse me? ' a shit hot psychologist?'

He doesn't even know the basic definition of passive-aggressive.

And anyone following any posts for months would know I never was in a cult or followed the whole 'cult' mentality.

But, Gerry, I think it's nice you have a following. How suitable it would begin with P-man and Hal. Jerry will be along later and of course - cq. Missing the whole point of my post, as usual.

Have your fun.

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Date: Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 17:09:15 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Elaine
Subject: Hoo! that's rich, Elaine
Message:
Yeah, be total in it! (and enjoy)
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Date: Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 19:52:25 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Elaine
Subject: Excuse me, Elaine, your slip is showing...
Message:
And anyone following any posts for months would know I never was in a cult or followed the whole 'cult' mentality.

Well, besides the obvious (the content,) this post is interesting in its usage of absolutes. It shows poor thinking, little grasp of logic, and it's a lie Elaine likes to tell herself.

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Date: Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 19:46:02 (GMT)
From: Hal
Email: None
To: Elaine
Subject: It's that time of the month Elaine.............
Message:
Full moon I mean

Take care.
,

hal

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Date: Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 19:36:47 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Elaine
Subject: Gerry, learn how to stop.
Message:
Do not let Gerry antagonize you, he seems to have the nack for it, and does not know when to stop. I do not know how much your are experiencing, but I do not belive in force feeding, anyone is entiteled to grow naturally without being bullied.

Salam

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Date: Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 20:04:58 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: Earth to Planet Salami
Message:
So Salami what's with your boloney? How long you been hanging around here, that you can make such definitive analyses of my posts? And where do you get off telling me what to do?

What did I ever say to you that was so antagonising? Could you quote me, please? Otherwise,

SHUT THE FUCK UP

would that qualify?

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Date: Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 21:43:12 (GMT)
From: sALAM
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Earth to Planet Salami
Message:
I am glad you did not dissapoint me, I did not expect anything less.
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Date: Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 23:12:53 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: sALAM
Subject: Always happy to oblige, Salam
Message:
So maybe you can point out to me just WHERE I was being antagonistic towards you.

Oh and for your information, Elaine is a hardcore premie who has absolutely no compunction against lying, misdirecting and evading even the simplest challenges to her belief system.

Btw, I have nothing against you, I admire your walking away from this destructive cult and wish you well in all your endeavors. We just got off on a bad foot, so to speak. I was trying to make light of your morbid and pessimistic first post, that's all.

But who knows, you may have been here reading for a while. Have you ever posted under a differnt name?

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Date: Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 00:25:17 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Always happy to oblige, Salam
Message:
Gerry, you amaze me, sometimes you are as prickly as a hedghook, others you as cuddly as a tedybear.

Do not take what I say as a personal attack on you, you may have your own questioning to do. I am thick headed and can take a lot of what can be thrown at me, I do not think everyone is. I do not want to mention names, but I discovered that frontal assult(no offence), sometimes have negative results. But then who I am I to judge.

For your answer, I have been comming to this forum for a while without posting, only reading what and why others have walked away.I have been to the enemy sites too.

I think its good to stand in front of the mirror and make faces, it breaks a lot of barrriers, but hey you do not need to listen to all this, you are who you are.

I decided that I like you after all, I give you my e-mail if you like, please write: salam_au@iprimus.com.au

cheers

Salam

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Date: Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 01:02:17 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: glyng@techline.com
To: Salam
Subject: Thanks, Salam and...
Message:
I GOTTA like a guy who descibes me as ...prickly as a hedghook,... cuddly as a tedybear.

LOL Pretty accurate, too.

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Date: Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 23:23:35 (GMT)
From: Elaine
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Earth to Gerry
Message:
'hardcore premie'????

There may be some full moon coming - but,you've been out in the noon day sun too long.
Have a cool one - put your feet up.

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Date: Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 12:43:29 (GMT)
From: Weather Reporter SB
Email: None
To: Elaine
Subject: Where were you last night? There is full moon now.
Message:
Maybe it was cloudy where you live. Here was incredibly clear.

SB

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Date: Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 23:38:53 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Elaine
Subject: Good advice, Elaine, thanks
Message:
I've been meaning to ask you about a statement you made to 'jewels', that you are 'clear on so little.' I don't understand. You have the Knowledge of knowledges, yet you are clear on so little? Please explain this and I'd appreciate if you didn't trot out the old saw about being a 'crappy premie.'
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 00:00:15 (GMT)
From: Elaine
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Good advice, Elaine, thanks
Message:
Well, I was ready to answer you until I checked out your next post below.

Who would want to answer anyone like you after the put downs - you're such a jerk -I can't believe you could be charming even in person now Gerry (as you say you are).

Is there anyone else that could vouch that you are even a tad charming in person?

It's sure lost on me.

Elaine

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Date: Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 00:26:06 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Elaine
Subject: Elaine loves her ad hominem attacks...
Message:
Well, I was ready to answer you until I checked out your next post below.
Who would want to answer anyone like you after the put downs - you're such a jerk -I can't believe you could be charming even in person now Gerry (as you say you are).

She can't face issues, so she makes a big deal out of the person doing the asking. Witness the stern scolding she gave Hal. And this post. Can't you just hear the cyber 'tsk, tsk' reverberating across the planet?

Is there anyone else that could vouch that you are even a tad charming in person? It's sure lost on me.

Look Elaine, I'm not about to 'charm' you. It would be totally wasted on an insincere, dishonest person like yourself. But if you had any guts at all, you would tackle my post below and stand up for yourself on principle, if indeed you have any...

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 23:52:24 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: all
Subject: Elaine you light up my life
Message:
What does it mean - 'I need an external medium to reflect back to me?' That is a great statement to discuss. And you said it was clear to you even....interesting. I'm clear on so little.

How can this be? Nollige is all about clarity.

What exactly do you mean by he gave you a 'mirror' - I never as a premie thought about a 'mirror', tho, I know M often referred to it.

Oops, another one of Elaine's little fibs. She never thought about the mirror deal, even though we all heard it repeatedly. How could this be ???

What does it mean to you? Is it just the techniques you're referring to?

Either Elaine is playing dumb here or she really IS dumb.

M is not an issue in my life either.

Oops Elaines nose just got a little longer.

I'm very into 'spirituality' but, M is someone I'm grateful to for getting me started. I also don't participate in the $$ stuff -so has never been a regret for me.

Either Elaine is a tightwad who depends on others to pick up the tab for her, or she's lying. Flip a coin.

And there are other talk sites around - someone will probably post a link later. And there are ex sites for almost everything -Jehovah's,Muktananda - have fun.

Oh yes, fun, fun, fun. Elaine is a fun girl. It's fun to surf the Ex-this or that sites. We can read how dumb these people were for having fallen for those obviously fake guru types. And then get to feel WAAAAY superior to them. Very fun indeed!

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 13:40:29 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Isn't she a weirdo?
Message:
All her posts are so rich: You never know what you are going to read. Such an amazing 'elevated' person. I would say, flying in the high sky.

She doen't know what honesty is yet. She needs to begin at home first. Principle, honor, dignity, self-respect, etc. and other words of that nature do not exist in premies vocabularies. They have their own!! LOL

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Date: Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 19:33:21 (GMT)
From: P-man
Email: None
To: Elaine
Subject: No...wire hangers...EVER !!!
Message:
Elaine,
If ever someone fit the definition of passive-aggressive it's you.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 18:24:24 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Hal
Subject: whoops it didn't post at first and thanks Hal nt
Message:
nt
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 17:50:27 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: all
Subject: no...wire...hangers...EVER!!! (the sequel)
Message:
I can just see Elaine with her hands on her hips screaming:

''WHAT IS THE MATTER WITH YOU PEOPLE !!!''

Hal's rather mild flame didn't really warrant the diatribe (yes, diatribe, Elaine) so what's Elaine REALLY mad at? Well for one thing, she's starting to get that she's been duped, but Elaine's a slow learner and it's only creeping up on her.

People here are just having sport and don't care about how they hurt other people -

Here Elaine tells us this is all really a 'sport' to her and she doesn't care who she hurts. Naughty Elaine.

I don't know what has become of the exes that post here. I know exes in my 'real' life and they wouldn't dream of being mean to a premie or anyone else for that matter. They are kind people that are mad at M and are dealing with that - they've cried bec of feeling betrayed for so many years --- but they don't,in turn, act out with other people and HURT and ATTACK them.

What disease has taken over with you people that you've forgotten normal human kindness - or even COURTESY for that matter.

You think that bec it's not 'real people' - just Cyberspace People - you all have the God given right to offend, hurt, abuse, ridicule, degrade, malign, curse, attack anyone that you feel like??

Such a chiding, a bonafide scolding. Picture Elaine really working up to it now, face red, voice rising in pitch and her finger wagging right in your face. She's angry, yes, really angry. Nobody talks to her this way in real life (no one probably takes her seriously enough.)

No, no one 'acts out' in Elaine's world: her exes are kinder, gentler. Why, they would never think of going on the internet and tell the whole world what a fraud M is. No mean talk about the cult from her friends (or maybe they've learned not to talk about it.)

What happened to you all?

Could this be Elaine's 'inner child' asking what's happening to her? Her little world view, nollidge and all, is being seriously challenged and found wanting. In fact, it's crumbling. What's happening indeed, Elaine?

And forget saying how Maharaji used you and took your heart and money and lied to you. Boo-hoo - ok that's a terrible thing.
Got that.

All you little wallowing victims out there. Well, by God you're not going to be victims again are you?--Why no ---you will attack anyone from now on to make sure of that - no matter who they are. Jesus, grow up. You act as if you're still in the sand pile.

Here Elaine is actually picturing herself in the sand box, a victim, held back mentally, emotionally and perhaps, spiritually by here retarded life in the cult. Poor Elaine. Pobre chica Elaine.

So, this is the answer for you?? To lash out at others wherever possible. And again - you're lashing out at probably future exes!! You don't GET that???

Yes Elaine we all need answers. Here Elaine tell us she wants to lash out at us for basically telling the truth. And so she does.

What is the matter with you people.

Well she said this before. Poor Elaine, the cognitive dissonce is really getting to her.

I used to understand your need to vent - and still do - about and towards Maharaji, ACT on your anger... - but this hitting below the belt to individual people is beneath all of you. And you should be ashamed of your actions.

Here Elaine is expressing the deep shame she feels. And anger, yes, always the anger. She'd really like to hit us all 'below the belt.' But her little passive-agggressive diatribe here will have to do, because that's all she's constitutionally capable of doing. To do otherwise, she'd have to be a little more honest and truthful with us and herself. And that's a big problem for Elaine...

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 17:38:47 (GMT)
From: test
Email: None
To: all
Subject: test nt
Message:
test
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 12:06:44 (GMT)
From: Hal
Email: None
To: Jewels
Subject: Sorry for the last paragraph.............
Message:
about fucking off unless you want to use your brain and have a real communication. I shot from the hip and hadn't read your posts further down the thread where I see you are open to having a real communication. Once again I apologise, must be the full moon!!!!

Hal

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Date: Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 13:22:55 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Hal
Subject: Sorry for the last paragraph.............
Message:
Do not worry Hal, she went brain jumping. See Thread on top.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 03:43:13 (GMT)
From: Current and Future Premie
Email: None
To: Jewels
Subject: Right on, Jewels! I couldn't have said it better!
Message:
These ex-premies, I feel, are just mad at themselves but they think that by directing their anger outwards that it will somehow transmute or dissipate. I was ready to denounce Maharaji if the Knowledge session didn't live up to the tremendous hype. I just wonder why none of these ex-premies didn't put a full page ad in the New York Times right after their Knowledge session telling the rest of the world what a 'hoax' it had been. That's what I was ready to do but since I felt so much more in tune with life after the session, I couldn't. Keep on truckin'!
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 15:57:25 (GMT)
From: Michael
Email: None
To: Current and Future Premie
Subject: Right on, Jewels! I couldn't have said it better!
Message:
I did want to tell the world that the 'knowledge' session was a hoax, I even argued with the Bai, but I was told to be quiet and meditate, and since I had extended so much energy becoming worthy of this great 'knowledge' I took her advice. But even though I spent four or five years trying to deny that it was a hoax, the fact is that K is a hoax. Really, how spiritual is it to squeeze one's eyeballs, stick one's thumbs in one's ears, breathe, and try to stick one's tongue up the back of one's throat? It is SOOOO subtle!!

Also, jewels, many of us here are NOT searching for anything more than to talk with others who were screwed by the LOTU, so I guess your claim is untrue.

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Date: Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 11:07:01 (GMT)
From: JtF
Email: None
To: Current and Future Premie
Subject: Right on, Jewels! I couldn't have said it better!
Message:
'I just wonder why none of these ex-premies didn't put a full page ad in the New York Times right after their Knowledge session telling the rest of the world what a 'hoax' it had been. That's what I was ready to do but since I felt so much more in tune with life after the session, I couldn't. Keep on truckin'!'

All this proves is that you are a susceptible/suggestible like the rest of us. It is very hard to admit you've been taken for the long ride. That's why most of the people who have left continue to blame themselves...it's never rawat's fault,right?

Here, people know they were duped...some after a few years and some after many, many years. It's very difficult because your whole decision making process is called into question.

If you have a real friend outside of the cult, ask them to do an honest, objective evaluation for you. Maybe they'll sign up for the program, maybe, they'll scream CULT!

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Date: Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 19:15:35 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: current premie and jewel
Subject: To Jewel and supporters
Message:
I do not even think it is worth while to consider replaying to both of you. Jewel your reasoning about about knowledge and maharaji is totally unbalanced and shakey, I juggest you do some extra work, as to the wimp that supports you, that person is no more than a leach with no brain, I would have tried a normall conversation with him/her except the ideat is so blinded by gm, it is like talking to a brick wall.

Salam

SB, I can understand why your English is bad, in Spanish you write as you speak, in English you say something but you write it differently.

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Date: Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 21:35:59 (GMT)
From: Elaine
Email: None
To: jewels
Subject: What you are searching for, is within you.
Message:
J-
What does it mean - 'I need an external medium to reflect back to me?' That is a great statement to discuss. And you said it was clear to you even....interesting. I'm clear on so little.

What exactly do you mean by he gave you a 'mirror' - I never as a premie thought about a 'mirror', tho, I know M often referred to it. What does it mean to you? Is it just the techniques you're referring to?

M is not an issue in my life either. I'm very into 'spirituality' but, M is someone I'm grateful to for getting me started. I also don't participate in the $$ stuff -so has never been a regret for me.

And there are other talk sites around - someone will probably post a link later. And there are ex sites for almost everything -Jehovah's,Muktananda - have fun.

Regards,
Elaine

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Date: Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 17:39:24 (GMT)
From: jewels
Email: None
To: Elaine
Subject: thanx elaine for your clear and concise reply..
Message:
not charged with all the anger and resentment i detect here.
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Date: Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 23:37:34 (GMT)
From: Elaine
Email: None
To: jewels
Subject: You're very welcome
Message:
But when you have the time I'd like to know what you mean by the
'mirror'.( I see Joe asked about it.)

Thank you,
Elaine

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Date: Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 17:59:09 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: jewels
Subject: So true, jewels
Message:
You see, 'jewels,' (another big brave anonymous premie) one of the side effects of being in a meditation cult like you are in, is the leveling of affects. Your responses become dulled, you get emotionally flat, and even your brain physiology begins to register the effect. But hey, you got the special K so go for it...
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Date: Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 19:45:08 (GMT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: jewels
Subject: What you are searching for, is within you.
Message:
What you are searching for is within you.

Did you know this before or after you met Maharaji? If you knew it before, what do you need M for? If you found out after, I'd say you are pretty dense. I mean, who has been with you all your life if not you, yourself? You had no idea what was within you before you met Maharaji? Come, come.

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Date: Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 20:10:01 (GMT)
From: jewel
Email: None
To: jerry
Subject: What you are searching for, is within you.
Message:
you are saying that what you were looking for and found or never lost..is you...fine. i was implying that what i was searching for and found was something greater than that.
simplistically put: if i am a lite bulb searching for lite and look outside, i will find only darkness. if i go inside, i don't only find lite but, by hooking into my element, i hook into the source of the lite i.e. the power station.
so as a lite bulb that kinda gives a lot of meaning to my life...
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Date: Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 20:52:41 (GMT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: jewel
Subject: What you are searching for, is within you.
Message:
Listen, jewel, I received Knowledge because I thought M was going to show me something about myself that I wasn't aware of before him, that I wouldn't be able to find without him. That never happenned. What have YOU found since you've been a premie that you weren't aware of before you became one?
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Date: Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 20:02:53 (GMT)
From: hamzen
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: Jerry, don't you find it weird that premies
Message:
claim they came to gm by feel & intuition, yet once the source of that intuition is revealed and contactable on a moment to moment basis, they can never be without the guru once they have it.

Very bizarre!

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Date: Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 21:03:54 (GMT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: hamzen
Subject: Jerry, don't you find it weird that premies
Message:
I agree, ham. It makes no sense. But I believe premies are in contact with the source of inspiration, moment by moment, as far as I can throw one of them. They wish.
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Date: Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 23:55:25 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: They need M to 'guide' the, because they...
Message:
forget. They forget to find happiness within and Mahariachi reminds them ,and they feel they are in track again, and they are happy for a while, maybe minutes, and they need one more fix, I mean, video/satellite...Dependency.

In another word, Mahariachi makes people helpless, weak, so as to be needed. He convinced them too of the 'benefits'; in many videos premies can find guidance and all is so general what he talks that everybody makes his crap fit, otherwise: Something is wrong WITH YOU, not M or K.

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Date: Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 21:35:21 (GMT)
From: ham
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: I'm not so sure Jerry, I think some of them
Message:
are having profound experiences, just that there explanatory devices are so corrupted, their spiritual experiences solely around gm, and they make that very sloppy new-age leap because of the conceptual/language corruption, and also COMPLETE and TOTAL unawareness of the bio-feedback mechanisms that are playing on the biological level.

I remember how sloppy I was explaining those experiences to myself. I'll give a little example, when I started to SERIOUSLY deconstruct my very profound, regular & daily experiences, I realized I needed a time-out from trying to meditate 24/7 which I'd been doing for 15 years (while not working, which gave me plenty of practice time!). But the sheer regularity was difficult to suspend, so I started using anti-meditation techniques, ie sticking my tongue downwards not upwards, etc. After a couple of yeasrs of this, I was granting myself partial relief and conscious awareness of these experiences.
During this period I started smoking a lot of hash with short gaps. The first evening after one of these gaps, after just three or four single skinners, I was 'experiencing' grace states that had strong 'cosmic'/'spiritual' explanations, on dope of all things! Thankfully I was hanging around people having similar experiences who weren';t as emotionally backward as myself, and had no 'spiritual' baggage to describe these experiences. But it was a convoluted journey, and one that for a long time still left me in those 'spiritually superior' explanatory head states that are a sure sign of delusion to anyone using critical thinking.

It has taken me 10 fucking years to free the 'explanatory' stuff from the 'experiences', with loads of biological reading needed as well. In some ways I think the seperation is harder if you have had profound experiences in meditation, and that's why so many premies who have had experiences that are valid to them, have such a hard time about critical thinking, because it undercuts and conflicts (so they think) so drastically with their meditation realities.

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Date: Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 21:54:32 (GMT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: ham
Subject: I'm not so sure Jerry, I think some of them
Message:
What I'd like to know, ham, is what was your experience BEFORE you received K? I'm certain you had feelings and were aware of them before that. How would Knowledge be so able to change that where, suddenly, you're having these profound spiritual experiences you weren't having before. All you're doing is focusing on your breath, where before you weren't. That changed nothing for me. If anything, it just left me feeling disappointed. I had such high hopes for Knowledge. I really believed it was going to fulfill my life's purpose. Now, look at me. I'm an ex-premie loser, like that Jim guy.
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Date: Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 22:25:30 (GMT)
From: ham
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: I'm not so sure Jerry, I think some of them
Message:
On acid, and smoking dope, yeah loads of experiences, but I'm an addictive kind of guy, and that wasn't good long term with the pure/strong acid that was around then, got too close to the edge.
Explanatory stuff was pretty much Leary, ie the experiences were biological, but my confidence levels in those days were lower so when I built up to daily to the 'second hour' of acid strength experiences in meditation, with all the lila explanations around then, and the belief that no other spiritual followers were having regular experiences at such a level, I wasn't sure exactly where gm pitched into it all, but I sure as hell gave him some slack.

Re differences between acid experiences and meditation ones, there were some very subtle differences. The physical effects were more subtle, the breath experiences over time changed to ones of feeling 'breathed', rather than me breathing. The pulse behind the breath was definitely a 'premie' explanation, but the experience was much more subtle than the explanation. The effects on my head states psychologically speaking were deep, after a couple of years it felt very integrated in my daily life, well it was my daily life pretty much. I started listening to my intuition a LOT more, even around gm. My body started to feel VERY integrated, which is amusing in retrospect, because although the experiential side definitely integrated the mind/body experience the 'explanatory' stuff fucked it up, twisted it and led to a weird variation on detachment.
I could contact those states easily after a couple of years of building the meditation up, I started laughing a lot, startyed seeing through others much more, confidence levels rose, but it was the overall feeling, which was exquisite and subtle which was the most valuable. After meditation, everything seemed brighter, colours were more vivid, same for sounds, sex became even more special, felt I could access that integrated part of myself more fluently.
In some ways the feeling was one of 'love', a detached state inside myself, and what seemed the core of everything that was valuable. Although I had accessed that 'one love state' on acid, I didn't have access to it as a daily easily accessible state til I was meditating regularly.
After about ten years the love states were getting stronger and going into what can only be described as bliss states.

That gives you a flavour.

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Date: Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 20:19:10 (GMT)
From: jewels
Email: None
To: hamzen
Subject: Jerry, don't you find it weird that premies
Message:
i am not a premi, i don't have pix of maharaji, i don't watch vidios, travel to events, etc....fact remains that what this guy says is true. often very cliche...but then a cliche didn't become a cliche for nothiong. maharaji is not in my life...'knowledge' (and i am using this word only for the context) is in my life... that is my own personal, toll-free, direct connection to my source...basta
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Date: Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 05:38:18 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: jewels
Subject: Is that you, Zen?
Message:
Go to the spanish foro, I'll be glad to 'help you' there, BASTA...
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Date: Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 20:41:24 (GMT)
From: hamzen
Email: None
To: jewels
Subject: You are completely fooling yourself
Message:
(1) gm has made it EXPLICIT that you cannot experience the true grace states without the triangle, ie you he and k.

(2) the experiences you are having are not unique to k & gm

(3) have you read any of the historical stuff on the site here, re radhasoami/adveint mat(sp?) where shri hans nicked the ideas from?

(4) if you've left gm out of the equation then you join a long list of exes who still meditate and experience something important from these times.

(5) listen to gm's little gems as you see them, they are sub zen stuff that is very superficial, but perfect for sloppy new age premie thinkers who ignore the bits they don't like or the bits that conflict with their experiences (I should know I did it myself for years, and had strong experiences while doing so)

(6) but be careful HOW detached you get around gm, I would recommend no critical thinking or checking on other 'spirit' routes, you might find it a little surprizing. Reiki is a classic example of this. You might realize just HOW shallow you have become in your thinking.

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Date: Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 20:51:18 (GMT)
From: jewels
Email: None
To: hamzen
Subject: You are completely fooling yourself
Message:
true...i may be fooling myself...and i am openminded always...that is why i am here on this forum...yet the experience is what it is...like he says...when you're thirsty and you drink, you are no longer thirsty...so, who's gonna tell you that your experience is an illusion? i becomes totally irrelevant...
i respect maharaji..and he is in the 'triangle'...but it's like writing the 'BOOK' on love, it can't be done...triangle or not, it exists...i love charan singh too...love him...
my question is why don't these guys refer to eachother...it seems like there's a bit of 'guru' rivalry going down...
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Date: Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 21:35:36 (GMT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: jewels
Subject: Good question
Message:
...i love charan singh too...love him...
my question is why don't these guys refer to eachother...it seems like there's a bit of 'guru' rivalry going down...

These guys are just a bunch of fatheads so into themselves and establishing a following that will pamper their messianic complexes. If it was just getting their 'message' across that they were interested in, they'd all be advocates of each other. As it stands, I've never heard Maharaji say a good word about any of his 'peers'. I think he thinks his light is holier than all of their's put together. They probably feel the same way about him.

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Date: Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 21:10:28 (GMT)
From: hamzen
Email: None
To: jewels
Subject: So how, considering how 'realized' he is, does
Message:
spiritual ego come into it??

GM is not talking about 'knowledge' as a general state, he is talking about a 'specific' state that only 'HE' can give??
This 'knowledge' is his knowledge alone according to him.

I would suggest reading some non-hindu stuff, really things are never simple 'around' these gurus because the gurus aren't simple themselves but are frauds who like any good huckster/con-merchants, know exactly what people want to hear and deliver it, yet add their specialness and bank account numbers too. Heh, we're talking great lifestyles you know, gm gets thru between $500,000 & $1,000,000 dollars a month, and has been for thirty years. For that dosh it's not difficult to understand the temptations.

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Date: Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 21:20:24 (GMT)
From: jewels
Email: None
To: hamzen
Subject: forum mechanix
Message:
i'd like to talk more...i'm new here and just need to straighten out exactly how this forum works...sorry to ask you...but in which order do the messages get posted...and in what order do you respond...
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Date: Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 22:27:41 (GMT)
From: hamzen
Email: None
To: jewels
Subject: forum mechanix
Message:
Look to the left column, re dotted lines, in this thread only jerry & myself posted immediate responses to your original question and the most recent response is nearer the top.

Respond in any order you want, no rules beyond that.

The only other rule on this forum is that no physical threats are allowed otherwise it's a free for all like some some medieval town marketplace.

The one other rule which isn't in place yet is how to deal with the brainless repetitive posts of premies, some of them are so tedious it's unbelievable, and they bog the place up like the street outside of mcdonalds, ie litter everywhere. That one still isn't resolved.

Why did you put the comment about 'moving on' above, if you knew how often premies say exactly the same thing, I've seen it dozens of times myself, and I'm here no-more than 1 week in 4 on average you'd understand the anger of my reaction.

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Date: Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 20:09:51 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: hamzen
Subject: So true! LOL (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 20:35:41 (GMT)
From: jewels
Email: None
To: whoever
Subject: what you are looking for...
Message:
it seems to me that a lot of you guys are either very old school..or are just the kind of people who confuse the message with the messenger.
what maharaji reminded me of...and i stress the reminded...is exactly that...that what i am always constantly looking for...be it in all the 'addictions' and 'distractions' that i am constantly lured into...is actually always readily available and present within me.
sure...once we know this...and we all do, but we also forget...then this message is trite and almost boring...but it is the most important message i can possibly think of nevertheless.
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Date: Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 21:17:18 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: jewels
Subject: When did you receive K Jewel? (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 22:06:32 (GMT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: jewels
Subject: what you are looking for...
Message:
jewel,

If there was something inside you, in and of itself, that is ALWAYS there, you'd have known about it long before Maharaji came into your life. It's senseless to suggest that there's this bliss within, that's CONSTANTLY there, that we need a constant reminder of in order to be aware of. We'd have to be going purposely out of our way to avoid the one thing we want most in life. Seriously, you'd have to be mad to adhere to such a philosophy.

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Date: Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 22:31:25 (GMT)
From: ham
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: Jerr, have you ever had those type of experiences
Message:
in any context at all, even warm to??
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Date: Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 23:11:37 (GMT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: ham
Subject: Jerr, have you ever had those type of experiences
Message:
Ham, what I feel within is a hodgepodge of things. If I think about certain things, I get angry. Others make me happy, or sad. If I think of someone dear to me, I brighten up. If I'm with someone I don't care for, I feel ill at ease. If I'm with someone I care about, I'm happy. If I'm doing something I like, I'm happy. Otherwise, I'm not. That's what determines what's happenning 'within'. I've had one unusual experience where I felt in the 'presense of God'. It happenned quite spontaneously, and to this day, I can't account for it. Sadly, I think it was some freak chemical reaction taking place in my brain, and that's all. I would like to believe I really was in touch with my creator, and in those few moments, he was assuring me that everything is alright. After all, isn't that what God is good for, to reassure us that all is not in vain? Who needs him, otherwise? I've never had a 'spiritual' experience in meditation. I can't relate to those who have. I've done acid, but there was nothing spiritual about that, either. That was a trip through madness, not unlike what a schizophrenic would experience.
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Date: Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 19:19:30 (GMT)
From: hamzen
Email: None
To: jewels
Subject: Pray tell me oh wise one, exactly what experience
Message:
and truth isn't inside of me?

I have moved on, and that is why I'm here, a concept much too subtle for your pigeon brain to take in, oh and by the way do you go to all the ex-guru followers of any denomination and pass on the same message to move on?

Also how do you know that we aren't just here by guru maharaji's grace, and are performing the perfect service??

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Date: Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 20:42:34 (GMT)
From: jewels
Email: None
To: hamzen
Subject: Pray tell me oh wise one, exactly what experience
Message:
firstly...move on is not the issue...you just choose to highlight it...secondly...obviously the truth that maharaji is refering to is within you...so what's the problem. that's all he is saying.
those that fall under his spell...that's their problem, not his.
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Date: Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 13:27:30 (GMT)
From: JohnT
Email: None
To: jewels
Subject: his spell ... that's their problem
Message:
Jewel wrote: those that fall under his spell...that's their problem, not his.

JohnT is appalled:
Jewel, this is a hideous example of the kind of evil irresponsibility that the false god perpetrates. He and his vicious little helpers go out of their way to create myths and stories about 'K', about 'M'; and about how special 'premies' are.

And you, like a brainless little twerp, can only witter on about how those that take the bait, laid on purpose to make them mad, have only themselves to blame!

You have a lot to learn.

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Date: Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 20:59:52 (GMT)
From: hamzen
Email: None
To: jewels
Subject: If you think that's all he is saying, then you
Message:
are either deaf, stupid, or a non-engflish speaker, but more likely another new-age sloppy rthinker who thinks he is beyond 'infection'.
You are exactly like premies, in that you don't question the other bits of his texts, and there are always other bits, loads of them, in fact on average at least an equal amount is nothing to do with the 'trite' but 'almost boring' side of his message.

You are also avoiding the 'trite' little cult in-references for premies littered in his speeches, and you obviously haven't seen any of his speeches in India in the 90's where guru is obviously still greater than god, a little curious don't you think? GM's dumbness is actually a good cover for even dumber people who have no experience of deconstructing coded messages etc Especially gm who likes to propagate the 'oldies' for the source of these misconceptions, so why the guru is greater than godness of his india speeches in the nineties.

In fact some reading of the historical facts on this site might do you some good, but hey that's aligning yourself with negativity, and like any good new-ager you can't be having with that, heh?

You are also completel6y denying his main message thast to keep this awareness in sight on a regular basis needs constant contact with guru, because without guru you will completely forget, and that he is no 'master' by accident. Like shp, you're living in a new-age fantasy land, where language doesn't need to treated seriously, because you're an untouchable. Whether you fall for this stuff with gm, or another guru is neither here nor there, you are ripe for it.

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Date: Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 21:15:44 (GMT)
From: jewels
Email: None
To: hamzen
Subject: If you think that's all he is saying, then you
Message:
that's the spirit...thanx for the romp...i need it from time to time...
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Date: Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 07:08:53 (GMT)
From: Zorro,the misguided dip
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: May I suggest
Message:
anyone who has actually witnessed
this thing called god
let he/she draw the first sword.
For all I, El Zorro, hears here,
is that this isn't god,
or that one over there isn't god,
and not only that,
but he/she even had the gumption to
burn a hooter or shoot a gold and backed it with a beer.
Now I ask ya, friends,
Who here has seen,
as in witnessed,
as in been in the presence of,
as in bowing down to the immortal thing,
and lived to talk about it.
From where I ride my horse,
you brits/brats are a bunch of chat chitters,
in need of a good El Zorro slashing,
the sword which beckons
to chat of the love, the peace, the glory, the mercy,
Pointing to the divine takes balls.
Who here wants a squeeze?
OJ? anyone
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Date: Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 07:30:16 (GMT)
From: Silver
Email: None
To: Zorro,the misguided dip
Subject: May I suggest
Message:
you write more clear
now i need a beer
you gave me a headache.
Dreaming having your sword,
I will go to sleep tonight
many many need your Z dear
I wonder if it can be done.
I can point to what assh should go
I think there is only one
First we start with Mariachi
and than with Satguru
and the we go for prem
how many are there?
I lost count.
Maybe they are all one
that inmortal body is a lier
he deserves all the zs himself.
He's always begging
give them all to him quick
Put your mark high Zorro
to be seen by us all
preferable on his forehead
is getting bigger everyday
space wont scarse
if not, try the ass.

Where is Toro?

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Date: Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 05:52:41 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Yet more on cults
Message:
Last Modified June 4, 1998


FACTNet, Inc.
P.O. Box 3135
Boulder, CO 80307-3135
USA

Webmaster
Warning signs of a destructive cult
Do you know someone in a destructive cult? Warning signs!
Anyone could attack a group they disagree with by unfairly labeling it a destructive cult. How would you know whether it really were such a cult or not? Isn't there an objective method to evaluate groups for cultic tendencies? Yes. The following early warning signs can help you reasonably determine whether or not a group is likely to be a destructive cult, and if you should be concerned about a friend, coworker, or loved one being involved with it.
Ask yourself if the following criteria apply to the group you are concerned about.
A destructive cult tends to be totalitarian in its control of its members' behavior. Cults are likely to dictate in great detail not only what members believe, but also what members wear and eat, when and where members work, sleep, and bathe, and how members think, speak, and conduct familial, marital, or sexual relationships.

A destructive cult tends to have an ethical double standard. Members are urged to be obedient to the cult, to carefully follow cult rules. They are also encouraged to be revealing and open in the group, confessing all to the leaders. On the other hand, outside the group they are encouraged to act unethically, manipulating outsiders or nonmembers, and either deceiving them or simply revealing very little about themselves or the group. In contrast to destructive cults, honorable groups teach members to abide by one set of ethics and act ethically and truthfully to all people in all situations.

A destructive cult has only two basic purposes: recruiting new members and fund-raising. Altruistic movements, established religions, and other honorable groups also recruit and raise funds. However, these actions are incidental to an honorable group's main purpose of improving the lives of its members and of humankind in general. Destructive cults may claim to make social contributions, but in actuality such claims are superficial and only serve as gestures or fronts for recruiting and fund-raising. A cult's real goal is to increase the prestige and often the wealth of the leader.

A destructive cult appears to be innovative and exclusive. The leader claims to be breaking with tradition, offering something novel, and instituting the ONLY viable system for change that will solve life's problems or the world's ills. But these claims are empty and only used to recruit members who are then surreptitiously subjected to mind control to inhibit their ability to examine the actual validity of the claims of the leader and the cult.

A destructive cult is authoritarian in its power structure. The leader is regarded as the supreme authority. He or she may delegate certain power to a few subordinates for the purpose of seeing that members adhere to the leader's wishes. There is no appeal outside his or her system to a greater system of justice. For example, if a schoolteacher feels unjustly treated by a principal, an appeal can be made to the superintendent. In a destructive cult, the leader claims to have the only and final ruling on all matters.

A destructive cult's leader is a self-appointed messianic person claiming to have a special mission in life. For example, leaders of flying saucer cults claim that beings from outer space have commissioned them to lead people away from Earth, so that only the leaders can save them from impending doom.

A destructive cult's leader centers the veneration of members upon himself or herself. Priests, rabbis, ministers, democratic leaders, and other leaders of genuinely altruistic movements focus the veneration of adherents on God or a set of ethical principles. Cult leaders, in contrast, keep the focus of love, devotion, and allegiance on themselves.

A destructive cult's leader tends to be determined, domineering, and charismatic. Such a leader effectively persuades followers to abandon or alter their families, friends, and careers to follow the cult. The leader then takes control over followers' possessions, money, time, and lives.

If you know someone who belongs to a group that demonstrates a significant number of these warning signs and you would like more information on how to deal with destructive cults or mind control, go to www.factnet.org.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

HOW TO DETERMINE IF A GROUP IS A DESTRUCTIVE CULT
Q) Anybody can unfairly attack a group they disagree with by calling
it a cult or saying they are using coercive mind control. How does
FACTNet prevent this type of problem and determine fairly whether or
not a group is a cult?

A) FACTNet uses specific criteria to determine if a mind control
system has been used, and does not suggest organizations are
destructive or dangerous cults without careful research and
determination that the evidence fits definite criteria.

Common Properties of Potentially Destructive and Dangerous Cults

The cult is authoritarian in its power structure. The leader is regarded
as the supreme authority. He or she may delegate certain power to a
few subordinates for the purpose of seeing that members adhere to the
leader's wishes and roles. There is no appeal outside of his or her
system to greater systems of justice. For example, if a school teacher
feels unjustly treated by a principal, appeals can be made. In a cult,
the leader claims to have the only and final ruling on all matters.

The cult's leaders tend to be charismatic, determined, and
domineering. They persuade followers to drop their families, jobs,
careers, and friends to follow them. They (not the individual) then take
over control of their followers' possessions, money, lives.

The cult's leaders are self-appointed, messianic persons who claim to
have a special mission in life. For example, the flying saucer cult
leaders claim that people from outer space have commissioned them to
lead people to special places to await a space ship.

The cult's leaders center the veneration of members upon themselves.
Priests, rabbis, ministers, democratic leaders, and leaders of genuinely
altruistic movements keep the veneration of adherents focused on God,
abstract principles, and group purposes. Cult leaders, in contrast, keep
the focus of love, devotion, and allegiance on themselves.

The cult tends to be totalitarian in its control of the behavior of its
members. Cults are likely to dictate in great detail what members
wear, eat, when and where they work, sleep, and bathe-as well as what
to believe, think, and say.

The cult tends to have a double set of ethics. Members are urged to be
open and honest within the group, and confess all to the leaders. On
the other hand, they are encouraged to deceive and manipulate
outsiders or nonmembers. Established religions teach members to be
honest and truthful to all, and to abide by one set of ethics.

The cult has basically only two purposes, recruiting new members and
fund-raising. Established religions and altruistic movements may also
recruit and raise funds. However, their sole purpose is not to grow
larger; such groups have the goals to better the lives of their members
and mankind in general. The cults may claim to make social
contributions, but in actuality these remain mere claims, or gestures.
Their focus is always dominated by recruiting new members and fund-
raising.

The cult appears to be innovative and exclusive. The leader claims to
be breaking with tradition, offering something novel, and instituting
the only viable system for change that will solve life's problems or the
world's ills. While claiming this, the cult then surreptitiously uses
systems of psychological coercion on its members to inhibit their
ability to examine the actual validity of the claims of the leader and
the cult.


I do remember something he said, about him being divine, god, perfect, knowledge does not work without him, dedecation, and wallet shaffting, does he qualify for the title.?

Salam

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Date: Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 00:42:16 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: Yet more on cults
Message:
Thanks for bringing that onformation here, maybe some premie reads it. I hope.

I have to answer your email. ;)

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Date: Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 16:17:49 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: everyone
Subject: and brain washing
Message:
``Use, but don't abuse (too much).''
-------------------------------------------------------
From: morgan@nexus.dec.com (DTN 522-5565)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc,talk.religion.newage
Subject: Religious and political brainwashing, part 1
Date: 10 Sep 88 19:14:11 GMT
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation

Although I've been interviewed about the subject on many local and regional radio and TV talk shows, large-scale masscommunication appears to be blocked, since it could result in suspicion or investigation of the very media presenting it or the sponsors that support the media. Some government agencies do not want this information generally known. Nor do the Born-Again Christian movement,cults, and many human-potential trainings.
So, to begin, I want to state the most basic of all facts about
brainwashing:

IN THE ENTIRE HISTORY OF MAN, NO ONE HAS EVER BEEN
BRAINWASHED AND REALIZED, OR BELIEVED, THAT HE HAD BEEN BRAINWASHED.

Those who have been brainwashed will usually passionately defend their manipulators, claiming they have simply been 'shown the light' . . .or have been transformed in miraculous ways.


------Agreement---------

-------You will never reveal these techniques without------
------------------------ the consent of Guru Maharaji------
-----------------I agree-----------------------------------
-----------------------------------------------------------

Cults and human-potential organizations are always looking for new converts. To attain them, they must also create a brain-phase. And they often need to do it within a short space of time--a weekend, or maybe even a day. The following are the six primary techniques used to generate the conversion. The meeting or training takes place in an area where participants are cut off from the outside world. This may be any place: a private home, a remote or rural setting, or even a hotel ballroom where the participants are allowed only limited bathroom usage. In human-potential trainings, the controllers will give a lengthy talk about the importance of 'keeping agreements' in life. The
participants are told that if they don't keep agreements, their life will never work. It's a good idea to keep agreements, but the controllers are subverting a positive human value for selfish purposes. The participants vow to themselves and their trainer that they will keep their agreements. Anyone who does not will be intimidated into agreement or forced to leave. The next step is to agree to complete training, thus assuring a high percentage of conversions for the organizations. They will USUALLY have to agree not to take drugs,smoke, and sometimes not to eat . . . or they are given such short meal breaks that it creates tension. The real reason for the agreements is to alter internal chemistry, which generates anxiety and hopefully causes at least a slight malfunction of the nervous system, which in
turn increases the conversion potential.

Before the gathering is complete, the agreements will be used to
ensure that the new converts go out and find new participants. They are intimidated into agreeing to do so before they leave. Since the importance of keeping agreements is so high on their priority list, the converts will twist the arms of everyone they know, attempting to talk them into attending a free introductory session offered at a future date by the organization. The new converts are zealots. In fact, the inside term for merchandising the largest and most successful human-potential training is, 'sell it by zealot!'.

read the full article at:

http://subgenius.com/subg-digest/ancient/0487.html

Salam

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Date: Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 18:49:48 (GMT)
From: hamzen
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: Church of Sub-genius, Genesis P Orridge??
Message:
This is bringing up some memory from early rave days, wasn't he an ole punk, who went trippy but without the guru trip, ie one of those hippy/punk mutants that set up the early free festival raves here in the early nineties, manifesting a desire for 'spirit' experiences without the guru trip, but didn't it all go weird?? Alister Crowley'ish??

Or am I mixing this up with the weird crowd around the 'Psychic Warriors of Gaia', and whatever happened to them?? Fucking superb band, deepest trance shit I ever heard.

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Date: Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 14:31:32 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: hamzen
Subject: Church of Sub-genius? Bob Dobbs? Robert Crumb?
Message:
I think Mr G P Orridge picked up on an idea that was originally popularised by none other than the Great One himself, Mr Robert Crumb.

And an excellent article on the Church of Sub-genius can be found at http://www.grayarea.com/subgenius.htm

It's the perfect bedfellow to premiedom, witness such classic mottos as:


'You’ll pay to know what you really think.'

'Too much is always better than not enough.'

'Pull the wool over your own eyes and relax in the safety of your own delusions'

'If you act like a dumbshit, they’ll treat you as an equal.'

'I don’t practice what I preach, because I’m not the kind of person I’m preaching to.'

Salam's discovery was in fact from 'THE BATTLE FOR YOUR MIND', by Dick Sutphen - a very different kettle of piscines (as in serious).

There ya go ...

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Date: Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 22:28:44 (GMT)
From: ham
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: Thanx for that cq, excellent link,
Message:
ahh, the wonder of laughter, the only response to the ridiculousness of all this 'spiritual' bollox!

Did you see the brain story on bbc2 tonight, great stuff too!

Thank god for de-mystification!

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Date: Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 00:48:42 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Why Maharaji says that K doesn't work without ...
Message:
the master?

Elan Vital/Maharaji are totally insane. This is a very dangerous cult. They contradict themselves (Elan Vital's Pams and Maharaji) JUST to confuse people. They are driving some of their members insane, premies don't know what to think anymore and the only relief they get is to think ALL IS A LILA??

Why Maharaji said in one of his videos not too long a go, 2 years, (I know, vague, but I am not going downstairs to find the friquing video: LOL) that HIS Knowledge doesn't work without him? He said that, didn't HE?

Why K. is called a gift, given freely, and when the person gets in the cult she/he cannot come out:You always need him? He sells freedom in a 'box' when in reality is a prison until you die? That is what DEVOTION is. You have realized Knowledge when you have become a servant of the imaginary friend he creates in your head, HIM, inside of you, the ONE who knows all, your thoughts, The Superior Power in person....and he isn't that according to Elan Vital. So, what in the hell is he doing inside people' head?? What he does is, HE invades people in the deepest level! Intrussion to the maximum. He becomes God IN YOU little by little. And Elan Vital can deny this? Why only OLD PREMIES from the 70s can 'work' in Elan Vital? THEY don't think Maharaji is GOD, they know it, as my premie friend told me few days a go. I know HE is GOD. Elan Vital can contact me if they want to talk with me about this premie; they know who I'm by now. I will tell Elan Vital the premie's name and phone number. They would never call me, would they? Why? They (Elan Vital top hats) all know is true that old premies think like that! PAMs DO think Maharahi is GOD. What they cannot recognize that it's a cult and Maharaji is the leader, as in HEAD of the organization. They proposse plans, he accepts them. Knowledge is not a gift but a passport to the servant lands.

Premies: Why is Maharaji necesary for you to practice some old yoga techniques? Because he doesn't empower people. HE makes you weak and dependant on HIS GRACE for you to make it, day by day...how depressing is that? And HE is the only REALIZED SOUL blablabla, you are nothing, and he walks around and lives like a real king would, sorrounded by servants ready to fulfill the Master's dream of the moment. Something is very wrong and you PAMs must make an effort to see it: It is your life you are wasting, but also is wrong trapping new people. Is like is two Maharajies: One for the new people who think all is so cool and nice (all is very well staged and presented), and than, a Maharaji for the ones believe HE is still GOD. You guys (PAMs) are lying!! To everybody including to yourself. Wake up people. The 2000s are here! Nobody needs a guru!

Premies, you can make yourself strong again if you leave him! Don't believe what he SOLD you: Where can you go if you leave the feet of your master, remember that satsang? HE doesn't want you to go nowhere becauseAS HE SAID there would be no Master without a student! Gurus exist because of suckers like us. Yes, it's hard when you have loved this Master for so many years to turn your back on HIM, but should you love him? If you learn or want to see how gurus 'operate' is so easy to see that we were manipulated by him!! He was, his mahatmas were. All are deluded, full of fantasy people! You have an imaginary friend in your head and he created it. It is not real. Of course it will be painful at first to leave because 20-25-27 years went by...Why not test REAL freedom? He want you were you are, but you are voluntaring to help HIM continue trapping others? Shame on you. Because to me, I just had to come here a little with an open mind and founding so much evidence of his deceit all over these pages, how could I say later, sorry, I didn't know. YOU MUST BEGIN TO KNOW THAT YOUR ACTIONS ARE WRONG!! You are promoting a gift and in reality, you are trapping people in your cult!

You bet I'm angry and hurt! What is happenning is wrong: Nobody need somone to meditate some yoga techniques in the privacy of their own home. He is fake! He traps people.

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Date: Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 01:30:00 (GMT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: SB
Subject: Why Maharaji says that K doesn't work without ...
Message:
SB,

Maybe some people just need to be sheep. It gives them comfort to believe that somebody on the planet has got it all figured out and is leading them to deeper understanding as well. We put a lot of stock in Maharaji and Knowledge. To give that up, to admit that it just doesn't work, and is never going to must be too much to bear for some people. Or maybe some people really do fit in a cult. Guys like Mili, CD, Deputy Dog, Mel Bourne, SHP. Maybe these people have found a home. Heck, maybe everytime they sit down to meditate, they have exactly what they want in life. Maybe everyime they hear Maharaji speak, their hearts jump for joy. Maybe there's nothing else in the world that makes their lives worthwhile. I couldn't say. The only thing I really can say is, if that's the way they feel, why are they coming around here? They should just stay away, do their meditation, go to their programs. You know, do their premie thing. This forum isn't for them. If they're really happy with M and K, they've got no business here. This forum fits only those people who AREN'T happy with M and K and could use a little support detaching themselves from it, or if they've been out of the cult long enough where they are fully detached, maybe they just want to rehash some old times that were important in their lives. But I'll tell you. The premies that come around here look like bigger jerks everytime they do. Maybe CD, Mili, SHP, those guys and others like them are just too stupid for anything but a cult. I'm beginning to think so.

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Date: Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 10:22:25 (GMT)
From: Mel Bourne
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: Spot on Jerry !!
Message:
Hi Jerry

.... Guys like Mili, CD, Deputy Dog, Mel Bourne, SHP. Maybe these people have found a home. Heck, maybe everytime they sit down to meditate, they have exactly what they want in life...

Speaking for myself, I think you're spot on.

Regards

Mel

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Date: Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 16:19:00 (GMT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Mel Bourne
Subject: Spot on Jerry !!
Message:
Mel,

I have no problem with you loving to meditate. It's none of my business. And I really don't care if you believe M is God, either. Suit yourself.

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Date: Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 06:08:54 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: still I agree with Gerry it sounds like a zoo
Message:
But they do liven up the place.
even if I don't read their posts usually. I like that they
irritate Jim :)
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Date: Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 00:39:46 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: maybe they like to be sheep....
Message:
SB,
Maybe some people just need to be sheep. It gives them comfort to believe that somebody on the planet has got it all figured out and is leading them to deeper understanding as well. We put a lot of stock in Maharaji and Knowledge. To give that up, to admit that it just doesn't work, and is never going to must be too much to bear for some people. Or maybe some people really do fit in a cult. Guys like Mili, CD, Deputy Dog, Mel Bourne, SHP. Maybe these people have found a home. Heck, maybe everytime they sit down to meditate, they have exactly what they want in life. Maybe everyime they hear Maharaji speak, their hearts jump for joy. Maybe there's nothing else in the world that makes their lives worthwhile. I couldn't say. The only thing I really can say is, if that's the way they feel, why are they coming around here? They should just stay away, do their meditation, go to their programs. You know, do their premie thing. This forum isn't for them.

The whole thing is like a movie where the more into it you get, it gets larger, doesn't seem like ever is going to have and end, or a big house with many rooms, in fact, endless rooms, all full of garbage! LOL. Why some people get involved with maharaji can be interpretated in so many ways, and you pointed a good ne: 'Maybe some people just need to be sheep.' Being true, doesn't mean that they all should go about their business as if nothing happened. We were in what we consider to be a cult and we want to come here and talk, or whatever, doing nothing illegal, and yes, they should go about their business. We talked about this before, we need them Jerry, they think they can come and defend the one we dislike, 'or change our hearts'. What about our minds? He can't shut them off. Let them come and prove to us why is necesary to have a master. I haven't yet heard anything worth commenting on. All is laughable stuff, to me. Have you seen Fakiranand. I better start sleeping with my militar helmet, present from a friend of mine.

That is all they have. That is the most important thing in their life,fine. But then, maharaji needs to be begin to explain all the process to people. What devotion is and that it's the goal of Knowledge, to serve him, to adore him, etc...the whole thing. How little by little the person gets sucked into believing his pompous assy voice tell 'the whole world' he has the knowledge of all knowledges which is simply not true. He needs to explain that there is a process where the goal is to develop an imaginary friend, him, inside of them. Tell them the truth, why play mind games with people? That is why laws need to exist everywhere to protect people from this type the manipulation. If I knew what it was, for sure as I see it today, would have I stayed? NO! So, premies need to communicate to maharaji that we are aware of the game and that is not fair and that we are tired of is games and lies, and that he has to stop trapping people. There will always be premies...sheep. But the way he traps them, so sneakly is what I have a problem with.

they're really happy with M and K, they've got no business here. This forum fits only those people who AREN'T happy with M and K and could use a little support detaching themselves from it, or if they've been out of the cult long enough where they are fully detached, maybe they just want to rehash some old times that were important in their lives. But I'll tell you. The premies that come around here look like bigger jerks everytime they do. Maybe CD, Mili, SHP, those guys and others like them are just too stupid for anything but a cult. I'm beginning to think so.

They just come to show 'their divinity'. We are out. LOL
They are good representatives of what a cult does to a human being; makes them sick in their heads. Full of imaginary whatever.

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Date: Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 05:09:04 (GMT)
From: shp
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: Reply to Jerry
Message:
Jerry,

Maybe CD, Mili, SHP, those guys and others like them are just too
stupid for anything but a cult. I'm beginning to think so.

shp says:

Think again. Or don't. Today's cult is tomorrow's culture.
Don't believe me. Look at history. I'm not saying I like it or don't, it's just the way it is. You want to check out a real cult? Check out the Moonies. They just bought the Associated fricking Press. Yep, AP, the international wire service. Scary stuff.

As for why I come here (can't speak for the others), I didn't know I had to explain my comings and goings to you or anyone else.

If you are so happy being a ex-premie, why do you all spend so much time paying attention to Maharaji? Is this your fulfillment? Or are you just in transition before you find something more worthy per you to dedicate your life to?

Of course I have issues or I would not be here. Duh, as my kids would say. Do I trust the total assembly of folks here with my intimate thoughts and concerns on the deeper levels? Hell no.

Woody Allen said 80% of success is just showing up. I have shown up here and learned some of what you ex-premie folks are about and grown from it. Actions speak louder than words.

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Date: Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 10:37:37 (GMT)
From: salam
Email: None
To: shp
Subject: ex-premies stop being nasty
Message:
I am glad to see that this site annoys you, I hope it does to every prmie, this site is here to stay, you are not going to change that. Why is it that when things get hot, prmies hide under their blankets. One thing that pisses me off about your class is the derogetory remarks that you make, 'oh i have learned from your ... and I have grown out of it', or something similar.
This is a place for spaced out , nasty people that say bad and nasty things about an innocent indian guru that is been trying so hard to bring peace to the world. And we bad nasty people are in his way because we speak to much and never shut up. If only we shut up then maybe innocent indian guru can get his own way rooting your back without anybody noticing.

Sorry mate, we nasty people will stay nasty until you and the heard of sheep that you belong to wake up.

Salam

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Date: Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 15:50:25 (GMT)
From: shp
Email: None
To: salam
Subject: reply to salam
Message:
salam said:
I am glad to see that this site annoys you, I hope it does to every prmie, this site is here to stay, you are not going to change that.

shp says:
I don't recall saying that 'this site annoys me'. Certain people and certain ways that certain people communicate annoy me. That would hold true in any venue where it's a biased atmosphere. I don't like to see ex-premies get disrespected and I don't like to see premies disrespected. I don't like to see people at work getting disrespected either, just because of a difference of belief or communication obstacles. You way overgeneralize for your own verbal upmanship, which blocks further communication. If I am open enough to come here and participate, get involved with the Jagdeo issue enough to write to EV in my own name and make my inquiry, and admittedly have my own baggage as we all do, why does that bother you so much? Because I don't fit into the premie mold you have created?

salam said:
Why is it that when things get hot, premies hide under their blankets.

shp said:
Here I am, no blanket around. Does that annoy you? I don't mean
it to.

salam said:
One thing that pisses me off about your class (???) is the derogetory remarks that you make, 'oh i have learned from your ... and I have grown out of it', or something similar.

shp says:
You have once again proven that you can take anything and spin it to fit your own purpose. I did not make those remarks in a derogatory spirit and was not motivated by malice when I wrote them. If you heard it like that, check your receiver and all the filters you have placed over it.

salam said:
This is a place for spaced out , nasty people that say bad and nasty things about an innocent indian guru that is been trying so hard to bring peace to the world. And we bad nasty people are in his way because we speak too much and never shut up. If only we shut up then maybe innocent indian guru can get his own way rooting your back without anybody noticing.

shp says:
Methinks I detect a note of cynical sarcasm in your remarks. I don't think you are all spaced out or nasty people. We all get spaced out and nasty from time to time, it's human nature. But I don't subscribe to it as a way of life or a way of dealing with a group of people, as you do with 'premies'. Do you enjoy the martyr role so much that you characterize yourself so and then try to put those words in my mouth. Ain't so.

salam said:
Sorry mate, we nasty people will stay nasty until you and the herd of sheep that you belong to wake up.

shp says:
Let me get this straight...your new mission and dedication is to save any and all premies and aspirants from getting or staying involved? Is that what you are saying? If so, let me sincerely thank you for the energy you are putting out on my behalf, whatever else happens. Although I don't agree with you on many fundamental things, I do respect your right to your feelings and beliefs and also respect your sincerity and effort to do what you believe is right. I just don't happen to agree with alot of it.
So that gives you the license, because I am on your turf, to trash me? Come on, salam...I was born at 6:00 am but not this morning.

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Date: Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 12:30:24 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: shp
Subject: Triple SHAME ON YOU shp!
Message:
Ignorant ass.
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Date: Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 02:18:23 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: shp
Subject: ship
Message:
Dear Sh,

You seem to be interested in official correspondance, well this is my offical reply to you,

When one visits a site, there are two actions that one can take,

1- ignore the site. Normally the information is irrelevant,
2- add the site to favorites.

You have obviously, added this site to your favorites, which implies two other thing,

1- you are benifiting from the information of the site,
2- because you are a member of a cult and a doubious organisation, namely EV, you must be frustrated to the fact that you can not share your ideas with other members of your cult. This is natural happening in totalitarian cults, where personality worship of the leader is a common practice.

As to your statement:

I have shown up here and learned some of what you ex-premie folks are about and grown from it.

I think it is rather interesting because it shows how pompos primes are. To start with this statement has space and relation. The space is the actual forum, you enter, you exits in the forum, secound you have a relation with us, I tell you something and you reply. Only problem is wha kind of relation. You obviously belive that there is an affinity between you and us, I do not.

Then you belive that perhaps you can enrich your experience by being here, this is a contradiction of the principle rule of knowledge:which states that mind exists only outside knowledge and as I remember very clearly said by gm and his initiators, you can not fight mind.

So here you, riding your horse fighting a lossing battle because you are not applying knowledge in your life the way it should be. Further more to foucus exactly on your statement and particularly 'AND GROWN FROM IT' tells a lot of things. Mainly you are finding it hard to coup with the situation (i.e. the forum) so you do what I used to do, let it go and meditate and pray to gm to help me, this is natural because you are interacting with mind (us). You then come back after a good brain sizzling session and try again to take over someone else and the story continues. I said before, when things get hot, you fall back on the standared rebuttle such as the above statement, which translates to, you premies think that you are supperior to us. This is a derogotery remark showing that you are not up to it, it is something that all cult members fall back to when they feel overwhelmed. Basically you are a chicken, anda s you can appreciate, these remarks attract a lot of attention, (look below how another premie has an unlimited number of admirers).

You have been advised by other exes, that you are in the wroung place. I juggest you go back to EV and admit that you need extra help, in fact we will all be very pleased if your master will come here for a while and chat with us. I promise I will not be nastty.

The question is : what is it about knowledge and gm that is so attracting to you?

Salam

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Date: Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 20:56:27 (GMT)
From: shp
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: reply to Salam
Message:
Salam said:
When one visits a site, there are two actions that one can take,
1- ignore the site. Normally the information is irrelevant,
2- add the site to favorites.

You have obviously, added this site to your favorites, which implies two other thing,
1- you are benifiting from the information of the site,
2- because you are a member of a cult and a doubious organisation, namely EV, you must be frustrated to the fact that you can not share your ideas with other members of your cult. This is natural happening in totalitarian cults, where personality worship of the leader is a common practice.

shp says:
Hey Sal, I have more than your two choices when I visit a website. Are you from an iron curtain country or something?
Having said that, most of the rest of this post is bogus.

Sal said: (with shp replies in brackets)
As to your statement:
I have shown up here and learned some of what you ex-premie folks are about and grown from it.
I think it is rather interesting because it shows how pompous premies are. (Sal, why don't you just say how pompous you think I am...why do you insist on groupism? Face me directly, at least on this Forum in cyberspace.) To start with this statement has space and relation. (Duh.) The space is the actual forum, you enter, you exits in the forum, secound you have a relation with us, I tell you something and you reply. (Duh.) Only problem is what kind of relation. You obviously believe that there is an
affinity between you and us, I do not. (There you go creating your fiction again. If there is any affinity, it is with indviduals, not the whole group. So my relationships with others
including other ex-premies is none of your business. Are ex-premies allowed to have any decent exchanges with premies without some fanatical watchdog of an exer coming along and trying to censor each and every relationship on this site? This sounds totalitarian to me, Sal.)

Then you believe that perhaps you can enrich your experience by being here, this is a contradiction (NOT!) of the principle rule of knowledge: which states that mind exists only outside knowledge and as I remember very clearly said by gm and his initiators, you cannot fight mind. (So you finally got it. I did not come here to fight anything or anyone. Also, one can learn from all experiences, and not have to be afraid of checking something out, even someone with Knowledge.)

So here you, riding your horse fighting (NOT!) a losing battle because you are not applying knowledge in your life the way it should be (So you are the expert on how Knowledge should be applied in my life...where have you been all my life?).

Further more to foucus exactly on your statement and particularly 'AND GROWN FROM IT' tells a lot of things. (I hope to grow and learn from every experience I have. What is your pissy little problem with that? You need to check the little voices who are 'telling' you things about what I said. I said what I said in my own words. The rest is words from your head. Not for me to deal with. You think evreybody is like you? What is that called...mysogisinstic or something?) Mainly you are finding it hard to cope with the situation (i.e. the forum) so you do what I used to do, let it go and meditate and pray to gm to help me, this is natural because you are interacting with mind (us). You then come back after a good brain sizzling session and try again to take over someone else (NOT!) and the story continues. I said before, when things get hot, you fall back on the standared rebuttle such as the above statement, which translates to, you premies think that you are superior to us. (I don't think I'm superior to you, you idiot! That's a joke in a way if you are loose enough to get it. Really, think about it.
I'm not into slumming, and if I thought I was superior to you, why would I come here? Now take a breath and count to ten or something and say 'common sense' ten times. I'll say one thing, your spelling really sucks! But then again, I digress.)
This is a derogotery remark showing that you are not up to it, it is something that all cult members fall back to when they feel overwhelmed. Basically you are a chicken (BWAK! NOT!), and as you can appreciate, these remarks attract a lot of attention, (look below how another premie has an unlimited number of admirers).

You have been advised by other exes, that you are in the wrong place. I suggest you go back to EV and admit that you need extra help, in fact we will all be very pleased if your master will come here for a while and chat with us. I promise I will not be nasty. (M said once that if someone seems interested in Knowledge, let them know about it, and if they say they are happy and not interested, to let them be. Thing is about this place is that you don't seem very happy and you have had contact.
Thing is, I'm not here tryng to do propogation. I'm just hearing ex-premies out and having some dialog from time to time. Why does that bother you so much?)

The question is : what is it about knowledge and gm that is so attracting to you? (I know it's different for everybody, but practicing Knowledge brings with it for me a deep sense of peace that transcends my understanding. I could have alot of worldly problems to deal with or have alot on my mind about the usual matters of life, and when I practice it's like putting STP treatment in my car. Everything seems to run smoother, not to say that I don't have as many problems. It is actually I who run smoother, despite whatever the world is dealing out to me that day. Whether I just got a bonus or a pink slip at work, whether the car is purring or stalling, when I am in the experience of Knowledge, life is in its proper perspective and I can deal with life on earth from a very calm place and be more effective in doing the proper thing to improve the situation whatever it may be. Subtle but very powerful and present at the same time. Besides all that, it feels most pleasant, natural and holy in an unreligious way just to BE in the expeience of inner balance, whether doing something or nothing. I hope that answers your question.)

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Date: Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 02:35:12 (GMT)
From: Polyana
Email: None
To: shp
Subject: blablablazzzzzblablazzzzsshp zzzzz
Message:
blazzzzblablazzzzz I'm in a cult
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Date: Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 05:25:20 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: Shame on you SHP. (nt)
Message:
waiting
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Date: Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 20:18:24 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: shp
Subject: Shame on you, SHP!!
Message:
shp says:
Methinks I detect a note of cynical sarcasm in your remarks. I don't think you are all spaced out or nasty people. We all get spaced out and nasty from time to time, it's human nature. But I don't subscribe to it as a way of life or a way of dealing with a group of people, as you do with 'premies'. Do you enjoy the martyr role so much that you characterize yourself so and then try to put those words in my mouth. Ain't so.

Sht up fuck up you asshole/bitch; what do you know about sychiatric hospital and REAL sychological problems like many have, including Salam? Why are you insinuating that a human being enjoys suffering?? You got me here. Now you have another enemy on the forum. I demand your appologies: I don't enjoy the martyr role either nor having needed professional help to easy my pain.

You don't get it, do you? You strong ass...because you haven't had 'any problems' screw the rest, call the martrs!! Shame on your mockery, insensitive stupid reasononig.

SB

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Date: Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 21:18:45 (GMT)
From: shp
Email: None
To: SB
Subject: reply to SB
Message:
SB responded:
shp says:
Methinks I detect a note of cynical sarcasm in your remarks. I don't think you are all spaced out or nasty people. We all get spaced out and nasty from time to time, it's human nature. But I don't subscribe to it as a way of life or a way of dealing with a
group of people, as you do with 'premies'. Do you enjoy the martyr role so much that you characterize yourself so and then try to put those words in my mouth. Ain't so.

sb said:
Sht up fuck up you asshole/bitch; what do you know about sychiatric hospital and REAL sychological problems like many have, including Salam? Why are you insinuating that a human being enjoys suffering?? You got me here. Now you have another enemy on the forum. I demand your appologies: I don't enjoy the martyr role either nor having needed professional help to easy my pain.

shp:
Oh, it's OK for you to trash a premie in the name of how you hate all premies and Maharaji and you heave that load on me and whoever premie shows up, but I have to walk on eggs around you? Get off it. I suggest that YOU treat ME the way YOU want to be treated and maybe we can COMMUNICATE. That's a little gem from a Master Teacher and it's been around 2000 years. Just think, if everybody just followed that oneliner, there'd be peace on earth. Now that's powerful. You have NO IDEA what I have experienced and what I know directly and/or indirectly about psychiatric and psychological problems and suffering. Having said all that, nothing I said was motivated by malice. I am sorry for your pain and suffering but I don't take responsibility for it.

sb said:
You don't get it, do you? You strong ass...because you haven't had 'any problems' screw the rest, call the martrs!! Shame on your mockery, insensitive stupid reasononig.

shp says:
You heard what you wanted to hear. You want conflict. I don't.
Clean out your ears and check your filters. You have alot of static in there. You have NO IDEA what problems I have had to face in my life. I was not mocking you or anyone. I think when you hear the word 'premie', your shields go up, even if the person is peaceful and not looking for trouble. Just having a premie in front of you puts you in an attack mode, right? That is a major obstacle to our communicating. So you have your reality and I have stated mine in this situation. Peace.

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Date: Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 02:12:24 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: shp
Subject: I'm not reading your post: You're strange. (nt)
Message:
ignorante!!
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Date: Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 17:34:36 (GMT)
From: Hal
Email: None
To: SB
Subject: I'm not reading your post: You're strange. (nt)
Message:
Puta! Hahaahaha
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Date: Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 18:43:54 (GMT)
From: Hal
Email: None
To: Hal
Subject: F.A I didn't post that to S:B:
Message:
jhgfd
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Date: Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 05:53:27 (GMT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: shp
Subject: What kind of premie are you?
Message:
I have shown up here and learned some of what you ex-premie folks are about and grown from it. Actions speak louder than words.

But Sandy, you're a premie. Remember 'Oh my Guru Maharaji, I dedicate my life to you'? What do you need to be here for after that? All you need to do is participate in M's work and be grateful for his gift. How does debating with ex-premies help you do that? You should be only concerned with serving Maharaji, any way you can. Are you doing that by posting on the ex-premie forum? What do you think Maharaji would say? Do you think he'd give you his approval? This is something you must consider, you know. Every action you take must be in M's service. Have you even thought if Maharaji would approve? What kind of premie would that make you if you haven't? Remember, Maharaji is the master. You are the servant. He is your guide in life. You must do as he says for your enlightenment. There is no other way. Your life is his to do with as he pleases. That's what's meant when you dedicate it to someone, y'know. It's no longer your's to do with as YOU please. Uh uh. Not anymore. Now, that being the case, do you think that you're using your life in a manner pleasing to Maharaji by being here?

As to why I'm here, it helps to bond with others that have torn themselves away from the clutches of the cult. I feel an affinity, with other exes, that I consider valuable in my life. But of course you're little, moron, premie brain can only belittle that affinity by assuming we're here because we can't let go of Maharaji. You just don't get it, Sandy. You never will. You have no idea what this is about, and you're a lousy premie for being here. If I was still a premie, I wouldn't come near this place. It would serve no purpose, whatsoever.

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Date: Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 16:57:56 (GMT)
From: shp
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: Interesting question
Message:
shp said:
I have shown up here and learned some of what you ex-premie folks are about and grown from it. Actions speak louder than words.

Jerry said:
But Sandy, you're a premie. Remember 'Oh my Guru Maharaji, I dedicate my life to you'? What do you need to be here for after that?

shp says:
I heard that Maharaji once answered when asked what was the most precious thing he gave us and he said 'each other' or so the story goes. I took that to heart, and have always held other human beings in high regard all my life. So when I came around here and saw people damaged in the wake of Maharaji's work - not by him directly but by people who were doing service for him - I was shaken very deeply and have tried to understand and empathize and even help to make things better if I could.

Jerry said:
All you need to do is participate in M's work and be grateful for his gift. How does debating with ex-premies help you do that?

shp says:
I never wanted or intended to make it a running debate. I wanted more of a dialog. Yeah, I got caught up inthe emotions and the heated exchanges, but that was not my true intention.

Jerry said:
You should be only concerned with serving Maharaji, any way you can. Are you doing that by posting on the ex-premie forum? What do you think Maharaji would say? Do you think he'd give you his approval? This is something you must consider, you know. Every action you take must be in M's service. Have you even thought if Maharaji would approve? What kind of premie would that make you if you haven't?

shp says:
You tell me about 'shoulds'? Get off it. I accept responsibility for my own actions. I don't believe that becoming a premie means that you don't feel or think anymore, or have compassion or empathy for others, or create karma. Maharaji was never big into approving or disapproving of people's lives, from where I've sat. He just wants us to practice Knowledge, to enjoy that personal experience of life itself, and give of ourselves to his work as able and willing.

Jerry said:
Remember, Maharaji is the master. You are the servant.

shp:
No, Jerry. Maharaji is the master and I am the student. If you have a problem with being a servant, that's your hang-up. I would not mind being a servant or a student. There are no low-class positions in life, just low-class people and performance. Any position or job can be approached with class and dignity or with the opposite.

jerry said:
He is your guide in life. You must do as he says for your enlightenment. There is no other way. Your life is his to do with as he pleases. That's what's meant when you dedicate it to someone, y'know. It's no longer your's to do with as YOU please. Uh uh. Not anymore. Now, that being the case, do you think that you're using your life in a manner pleasing to Maharaji by being here?

shp:
If I am making an effort from a sincere place and it is not what is desired, I will be informed one way or another. You don't need to worry yourself about my spiritual development.

Jerry said:
As to why I'm here, it helps to bond with others that have torn themselves away from the clutches of the cult. I feel an affinity, with other exes, that I consider valuable in my life.

shp says:
Good for you.

Jerry slides in:
But of course you're little, moron, premie brain can only belittle that affinity by assuming we're here because we can't let go of Maharaji.

shp says:
I don't belittle your bonds with others ex-premies. If I was involved with something that I learned was dangerous and intentionally hurting people, I would do my best to help others avoid the same trap. I just don't see it that way in this case and you cannot stand it or accept that.

Jerry said:
You just don't get it, Sandy.

shp says:
Maybe I don't and maybe I do.

Jerry said:
You never will.

shp says:
Beware of your judgements of others, for they may be your own.

Jerry said:
You have no idea what this is about, and you're a lousy premie for being here. If I was still a premie, I wouldn't come near this place. It would serve no purpose, whatsoever.

shp says:
So now you know what I have an idea about and what I don't have an idea about. God, you could have your own following if you know what people are aware of and unaware of just from some cyber conversations. I don't pretend to truly understand all about the ex-premies or you in particular. I do know that you are very upset and you meter it out in very cutting, sarcastic, subtle-plane intellectual angry expression which comes through to me loud and clear. The only one who can call me a lousy premie with any authority is my teacher. I may well be a lousy premie.
But I'd rather be a lousy premie at this point in my life than be a well-supported, Forum approved ex-premie. So you already have some reviews coming in telling you what good form you are in.
That's great. And if an ex-premie said anything, and I mean anything suggesting that I am not your concept of a premie, they too would be ostracized and bullied and intimidated to recant anything kind they may have said about me. Tough room.

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Date: Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 05:20:20 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: shp
Subject: FA: Please, SHP/Sandy doesn't belong here.
Message:
Jerry said:
Remember, Maharaji is the master. You are the servant.

shp:
No, Jerry. Maharaji is the master and I am the student. If you have a problem with being a servant, that's your hang-up. I would not mind being a servant or a student. There are no low-class positions in life, just low-class people and performance. Any position or job can be approached with class and dignity or with the opposite.

Jerry said:
You have no idea what this is about, and you're a lousy premie for being here. If I was still a premie, I wouldn't come near this place. It would serve no purpose, whatsoever.

shp says:
So now you know what I have an idea about and what I don't have an idea about. God, you could have your own following if you know what people are aware of and unaware of just from some cyber conversations. I don't pretend to truly understand all about the ex-premies or you in particular. I do know that you are very upset and you meter it out in very cutting, sarcastic, subtle-plane intellectual angry expression which comes through to me loud and clear. The only one who can call me a lousy premie with any authority is my teacher. I may well be a lousy premie.
But I'd rather be a lousy premie at this point in my life than be a well-supported, Forum approved ex-premie. So you already have some reviews coming in telling you what good form you are in.
That's great. And if an ex-premie said anything, and I mean anything suggesting that I am not your concept of a premie, they too would be ostracized and bullied and intimidated to recant anything kind they may have said about me. Tough room.

Why shp can speak in this tone to an ex in AN EX-PREMIES SITE?

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Date: Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 21:32:27 (GMT)
From: shp
Email: None
To: SB
Subject: So now premies have to watch their TONE,
Message:
as they are being eviscerated en masse upon arrival and are measured up for how they will be cyber-dissected and used for demonstrations of 'cult-think'. Gee, sorry for being so rude while you were insulting the shit out of me even though you don't know who the hell you are talking to or hardly anything about me.
I speak directly. If you mistake that for disrespect, now you have been informed. You deserve respect just for the fact that you exist and take up space and have breath and life. I respect you and your right to all that.

But I can vigorously disagree with you can't I? Or does just being a premie negate anything I did, do or will say? If so, why bother?

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Date: Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 21:09:00 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: shp
Subject: So now premies have to watch their TONE,
Message:
I will call every shit that comes from you, simple. Each of them.
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Date: Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 21:35:25 (GMT)
From: shp
Email: None
To: SB
Subject: Scatalogical
Message:
SB declared:
I will call every shit that comes from you, simple. Each of them.

shp says:
SB, you are passionate and sincerely believe in what you are doing and saying, that is obvious to me. But you are also way out of focus, and you don't know me from Adam. You can call this piece of shit post from me 'SB as shp sees him', stick it in a jar and study it for awhile. I am going to go wash my hands now.

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Date: Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 23:20:29 (GMT)
From: Elaine
Email: None
To: shp
Subject: So now premies have to watch their TONE,
Message:
'Or does just being a premie negate anything I did,do or will say?'

Yes, here it does.
Nail on the head, SHP.

Welcome,
Elaine

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Date: Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 21:12:37 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: Elaine
Subject: Shut up Elaine
Message:
What do you know about nails anyway. You must work harder.

You are laughable. Just that.

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Date: Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 21:53:36 (GMT)
From: shp
Email: None
To: FA
Subject: Wassup?
Message:
Elaine wrote:
'Or does just being a premie negate anything I did,do or will say?' -shp
Yes, here it does.
Nail on the head, SHP.
Welcome,
Elaine

SB responded:
What do you know about nails anyway. You must work harder.
You are laughable. Just that.

shp says:
Positions on any issues we are embroiled in here on this site aside, what the hell is SB saying besides that he doesn't approve of Elaine being nice and accepting of me? Is this a language barrier or what? SB is hopping mad and he cracks me up, and I don't mean to laugh at him/her, it's just that he flails at anything and everything. Wassup?

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Date: Wed, Jul 19, 2000 at 00:59:14 (GMT)
From: Elaine
Email: None
To: shp
Subject: Wassup?
Message:
Oh,you've noticed? (Good word - 'flail')

I can't bring myself to read her posts, so she posts other things or names in 'from' spot(FA doesn't care) or puts her message in 'subject' spot to be sure I will see it.

Usually it's 'Shut up,Elaine' or some other mean thing. But, don't call her 'mean' - it triggers her.

And don't forget she doesn't hate premies - just their thinking.
And also don't forget -all premies are alike and think alike.
And get use to saying the most innocuous thing and she'll turn it around to suggest you should be banned or just simply attack you.
And also don't forget some here know her in 'real' life and 'like' her and will never talk to her about being over the top.

It's a 'she'.

Cheers,Elaine

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Date: Wed, Jul 19, 2000 at 04:11:39 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Elaine
Subject: oh come on Elaine that is too much
Message:
I know SB and am not afraid to confront her or anyone else on forum or anywhere. That is bullshit.

You two obviously have a war going on. The fact that I choose to stay out of it does NOT mean that I am afraid to confront her OR
YOU.

But posts like this make me want to.

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Date: Wed, Jul 19, 2000 at 17:24:45 (GMT)
From: Elaine
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: Selene
Message:
Selene,

Now see - this would be what I mean by being 'misinterpreted' - two times now - you personally have misread my post and thus jumped to a conclusion.(It happens alot here - not just to me.)

(The 1st x being reading incorrectly that I worked w/ rape victims yesterday.No biggy - but, still a misinterpretation.)

Now, you jump to a conclusion that I said people who knew her in real life were 'afraid' to 'confront' her.Again, never said that,nor did I even think that.
I said no one talks to her about being over the top.

No confrontation,no fear even thought of let alone mentioned.

If my friend acted like SB to Elaine I would say to her Whoa aren't you being a bit intense? And have them think about it and do what they wanted after simply bringing it to their attention.
No confrontation or fear or anything else for that matter.

That's me - Like I said I am under (truly) constant scrutiny by every friend and their partners that are either psychiatrists (and at parties all their associates),addiction counselors,hypnotherapists,EMDR,TFT psychotherapists, MSW's, even crystal healers! and the rest of my few friends having been IN therapy . I mean it's like a curse - (or blessing).

So that is how my mind works now.FYI.

And,BTW, we don't have a war going on - IMO. She doesn't like me and 'dogs' my posts with unnessesary hurtful posts - as in over and over 'Shut up,Elaine or even Shut the Fuck up, Elaine! '

I mean it's just constant. I believe the post above to shp was the first x I said anything much about it. I've just decided to not read her posts bec they are too disturbing to my whole equilibrium. I mean it actually affects my immune system when I have read a post or two ( thinking MAYBE it won't be antagonistic). But, it always is. Even in a friendly exchange w/ another about nothing important.

I don't have anything against her except that she is so antagonistic. The amount of hate she expresses to me is just huge. No one deserves that treatment. I wouldn't even treat HER that way and I have been very upset by her words in the past.

And I really don't want you to be in the middle of anything - Stonor did that once just saying Elaine had never attacked SB from what she could see - And SB blasted her w/ How can you sleep at night and I used to like you!!!
So please, don't get involved. Thank you.

Sorry, I wrote so much. I felt I needed to communicate.

Elaine

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Date: Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 12:34:38 (GMT)
From: Forum Admin
Email: forumfour@hotmail.com
To: SB
Subject: FA: Please, SHP/Sandy doesn't belong here.
Message:
In fairness to SHP (and along with Mel Bourne) he was being talked about earlier in the thread before either of them joined in. But if they tried to hog the forum, uninvited, with disruptive threads - well that might be another matter.

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Date: Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 02:40:28 (GMT)
From: SB: Pain ain't the word
Email: None
To: Forum Admin
Subject: Sandy is laughing at the pain of exes and suggest
Message:
that we enjoy it, that we like it. Why exes have to be insulted like that?? If this was other type of forum I wouldn't be here compalining but they go to far!! They don't belong here to begin with.

Did you read Salam's post that Shp/Sandy answered??

Yes or no FA?

Grrrrrr.......

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Date: Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 04:33:02 (GMT)
From: shp
Email: None
To: SB
Subject: SB, you are either a goddam liar or just very
Message:
obtuse. I don't laugh at your pain.
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Date: Wed, Jul 19, 2000 at 04:38:58 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: shp
Subject: no you just like to provoke
Message:
I suspect Maharaji would be displeased shp
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Date: Wed, Jul 19, 2000 at 13:14:00 (GMT)
From: shp
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: no, I do not just like to provoke (nt)
Message:
slkgf
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Date: Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 22:24:19 (GMT)
From: Lotus Eater
Email: None
To: shp
Subject: to shp
Message:
The bit that struck me in this post was where you say that you were shaken by the damage people had sustained in the wake of Ms work, and immediately added that the damage had been inflicted by the premies, but not Maharaji.

For me acknowledging the damage done has been important, but you don't seem to realise that the worst pain comes when you finally acknowledge Maharaji's responsibility. How many times are you going to just blame the stupid PWicKs.

For me the point came when a long time dear friend bullied me with the EV party service line. He had just spent four days in an instructor training, and guess who was there every day, running the show.....no, when you accept Rawat's 'words of wisdom', you are also supping on his MIND hahahaha

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Date: Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 22:45:06 (GMT)
From: shp
Email: None
To: Lotus Eater
Subject: reply to Lotus Eater
Message:
Lotus Eater said:
The bit that struck me in this post was where you say that you were shaken by the damage people had sustained in the wake of Ms work, and immediately added that the damage had been inflicted by the premies, but not Maharaji.

For me acknowledging the damage done has been important, but you don't seem to realise that the worst pain comes when you finally acknowledge Maharaji's responsibility. How many times are you going to just blame the stupid PWicKs.

For me the point came when a long time dear friend bullied me with the EV party service line. He had just spent four days in an instructor training, and guess who was there every day, running the show.....no, when you accept Rawat's 'words of wisdom',
you are also supping on his MIND hahahaha

shp says:
The way I see it at this point in my life is like when video and audio tapes get duplicated. The studio Master tape is pristine and clear. Every dupe introduces degradation (that's what it is called), and just like a recopied xerox, it gets worse and worse the more it gets duped and more distance is created between it and the Master. I think that's why Maharaji is doing it all now, and coincidentally with the introduction of digital technology, you can get video and audio duped just as clear as the Master with no degradation.

In the earthwide events of humanity, I see that things take time to change and shit happens along the way. For me, that doesn't tell me to throw out the baby with the bathwater.

Anyway, I like your name even though I disagree with you. Very exotic. Really.

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Date: Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 19:12:51 (GMT)
From: hamzen
Email: None
To: shp
Subject: SHP, you really are the archetypal, new age
Message:
head wanker, who'll just keep ploughing on because your fake optimism is all you have left, that and on your dark nights I suspect, a total embrace of lila.

You go on and on about respect, but instead of just coming here & reading, no you've got to get engaged in dialogue to justify yourself, and if you wind everyone up here in the process, well tough shit. But then you're not comfortable with upsetting people, dilemma time, so either read quietly or fuck off, because you just KNOW you're gonna wind people up, and then yopu wonder why people get pissed at you. For chrissakes use your brains if they haven't merged with some newage soup.

You're never gonna get the respect of exes, and I can GUARANTEE you you don't have a fucking clue consciously what this site is about or what it's like to make the journeys we have and have the experiences and realizations we have had.

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Date: Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 21:49:25 (GMT)
From: shp
Email: None
To: hamzen
Subject: reply to hamzen
Message:
hamzen said:
You go on and on about respect, but instead of just coming here & reading, no you've got to get engaged in dialogue to justify yourself,

shp says:
I get involved just like everybody else does. What is it about what I say that winds you up? And I don't get involved to justify anything. Why do you find the need to characterize my involvement as justification?

hamzen said:
and if you wind everyone up here in the process, well tough shit.

shp says:
Your read of me is inaccurate. That is all I can say about it now because you are so full of your own opinion on the subject.

hamzen said:
But then you're not comfortable with upsetting people, dilemma time, so either read quietly or fuck off, because you just KNOW you're gonna wind people up, and then you wonder why people get pissed at you. For chrissakes use your brains if they haven't merged with some newage soup.

shp says:
Is this a forum or what??? What kind of conversation do you want, milk and pablum? I'm not doing anything to purposely piss anyone off, and I won't be characterized as such. The issue here isn't me. I did not come here to hear about me. You really need to change your intro page. what you advertise is not what happens here. So change the intro page or deliver what you advertise.
For everybody's sake.

hamzen said:
You're never gonna get the respect of exes,

shp says:
You just DON'T GET IT! I deal with people one-on-one. You use the group as a hammer to back you up instead of stand alone and deal with me as an individual. If I have the qualified respect of some exers and they have mine (which does exist in some cases) does that piss you off? Why?

hamzen said:
and I can GUARANTEE you you don't have a fucking clue consciously what this site is about or what it's like to make the journeys we have and have the experiences and realizations we have had.

shp says:
Likewise I am sure.

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Date: Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 22:49:27 (GMT)
From: hamzen
Email: None
To: shp
Subject: Usual shallow response from you
Message:
You go on and on about respect, but instead of just coming here & reading, no you've got to get engaged in dialogue to justify yourself,
shp says:
I get involved just like everybody else does. What is it about what I say that winds you up?
It's your new age bubble brain that sounds like the only voice you hear is your own, like all the other spiritual junkies who come here.

And I don't get involved to justify anything. Why do you find the need to characterize my involvement as justification?
Uhh, this is an ex-premie site, remember??
And your responses are a constant attempt to justify new-age spirituasl junkiedom whether you see it or not.
hamzen said:
and if you wind everyone up here in the process, well tough shit.
shp says:
Your read of me is inaccurate. That is all I can say about it now because you are so full of your own opinion on the subject.

Would you say you wind people up or not, if you can't see it then you are truly dead to language, which of course you are because there is something beyond everything else right?
hamzen said:
But then you're not comfortable with upsetting people, dilemma time, so either read quietly or fuck off, because you just KNOW you're gonna wind people up, and then you wonder why people get pissed at you. For chrissakes use your brains if they haven't merged with some newage soup.
shp says:
Is this a forum or what??? What kind of conversation do you want, milk and pablum? I'm not doing anything to purposely piss anyone off, and I won't be characterized as such. The issue here isn't me. I did not come here to hear about me. You really need to change your intro page. what you advertise is not what happens here. So change the intro page or deliver what you advertise.
For everybody's sake.

Language and logic, you just don't get it do you!
hamzen said:
You're never gonna get the respect of exes,
shp says:
You just DON'T GET IT! I deal with people one-on-one. You use the group as a hammer to back you up instead of stand alone and deal with me as an individual. If I have the qualified respect of some exers and they have mine (which does exist in some cases) does that piss you off? Why?

But you aren't an individual shp, your arguments are so new age predictable as to be laughable, the fact that even the ones here you can gain qualified respect from is completely irrelevant, you just come over as someone looking to get ex-premies respect that's all.
hamzen said:
and I can GUARANTEE you you don't have a fucking clue consciously what this site is about or what it's like to make the journeys we have and have the experiences and realizations we have had.
shp says:
Likewise I am sure.

Actually shp, your answers are so predictable because I was SO close to your position for years, on an unbelievably superficial reading, forgetting your belief structures we're much closer than you would ever believe.
And this is an exes site remember, but hey don't let a little fact like that get in the way of your junkie belief systems overriding everything else.

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Date: Wed, Jul 19, 2000 at 01:22:38 (GMT)
From: shp
Email: None
To: hamzen
Subject: an unmoderated collection of ongoing threaded disc
Message:
excerpt from your front page:
The Forum is an unmoderated collection of ongoing threaded discussions where ex-premies, current premies, and non-premies express their views on anything and everything related to following Maharaji, practicing Knowledge, and life afterwards.

shp says:
I am conforming with the above statement. You, on the other hand, are into doing a critique of my every nuance and characterizing it as predictable new age yadda yadda yadda, which I don't see as an approved activity on this site. You criticize my beliefs systems as you call them. My belief systems have enough room in them to include you and this site and not feel like I have to tear you down to feel good about myself. Unfortunately, it seems that your belief system requires you to do exactly that to myself and whoever else happens by who calls themself a premie. But if you look at your intro, it specifically states that 'ex-premies, current premies, and non-premies express their views...'. For what purpose?

The way I see it is that we all came to Maharaji from a place inside ourselves, not from outside pressure. And for those premies who left, they left from an inner motivation. And if there is any other movement toward or away from Maharaji on the part of any individual, it is still from a personal inner place. I know this. So knowing this, why would I come here trying to convince you of anything?

I don't see anywhere where it says : 'The Forum is an unmoderated collection of ongoing threaded discussions where ex-premies, current premies, and non-premies can verbally assault and harass and criticize each other 24/7 and the ex-premies will always be right on every single issue because this is their website. And all premies are the same.' Do you?

And do me a favor. This time please address the subject under discussion and refrain from personality clashing. That new age enough fer ya?

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Date: Wed, Jul 19, 2000 at 03:44:49 (GMT)
From: Elaine
Email: None
To: shp
Subject: collection of ongoing threaded discussions
Message:
' The forum is an unmoderated collection of ongoing threaded discussions where exes, premies and non-premies can verbally assault, harass and criticize each other 24/7 and the exes will always be right on every single issue bec this is their website and all premies are the same.'

Well, I thought that was the rule here.

Oh and save yourself some time, SB

SHUT UP,ELAINE - SHAME ON YOU.

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Date: Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 18:42:06 (GMT)
From: Hal
Email: None
To: shp
Subject: I have a question shp????????
Message:
I have been wondering recently about the relationship of the student to the supposedly enlightened one. In all the pathways of following a master have any of the followers actually realised God or themselves? Is it possible for an enlightened being to teach anyone else how to become enlightened? Have any premies ever attained the state that Maha says is possible ie. a state of freedom from woe and troubles, a state of constant love and joy?

I don't think so. In fact I have an inkling that to really become a truly ' awake ' human being , it is necessary to let go of being a follower. In fact I think it possible that followers never make it. How about you, have you reached enlightenement or god realisation? Maybe on the path to awakening the guru is a barrier that must be crossed.

Despite having left Maha I'm still awakening and learning to be more awake, I doubt that I will ever be able to let go of that quest. I just didn't think that M had delivered on his promises to me. I wasn't feeling what he talked about (well sometimes) . I didn't feel that I had made any extraordinary progress by being his student. Have you?

Awaiting your reply, (keep it fairly simple please as I'm not super intellectual )

Hal

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Date: Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 22:34:33 (GMT)
From: shp
Email: None
To: Hal
Subject: reply to Hal
Message:
Hal said:
I have been wondering recently about the relationship of the student to the supposedly enlightened one. In all the pathways of following a master have any of the followers actually realised God or themselves?

shp says:
You're asking me? All I can speak about with any authority is my own experience. In my experience I have had moments and periods of time that reminded me of things I had read which were written by past seekers and teachers indicating what the experience of realization feesl like. So I had a clue from having studied past seekers writings. Even if I had never read anything previously (this was just my own set of circumstances), I would have to say that I have had my periods of realization and they felt most wonderful, natural and fulfilling in ways that cannot be fully described in words. This experience calls upon more subtle and less used human senses and powers which don't take a rocket scientist to get it.

Hal said:
Is it possible for an enlightened being to teach anyone else how to become enlightened?

shp says:
I have to believe that is so, because even though I had had intellectual concepts and glimpses of it, the Knowledge that Maharaji showed me gave my experience quite a boost to say the least.

Hal said:
Have any premies ever attained the state that Maha says is possible ie. a state of freedom from woe and troubles, a state of constant love and joy?

shp says:
I don't know since I don't live with anyone who fits that description and am therefore not a direct witness to such a life.
I bet there are some, but IMHO nobody knows something like that but the person it's happening to and maybe those who hang with that person alot, or a sensitive person who just feels the vibe passing by, I think that's possible too. Like a familiar and favorite fragrance or tune. For myself, I can say that life's troubles don't bother me as much as they used to and I have Knowledge to thank for much of the lightness of the load, for sure. I can feel it. Some of the mellowness might be age and experience as time goes by, but age and experience alone don't guarantee peace of mind...that takes something else, or else everybody would get more and more enlightened the older they got.
I think that was maybe part of the original plan.

Hal said:
I don't think so. In fact I have an inkling that to really become a truly ' awake ' human being , it is necessary to let go of being a follower. In fact I think it possible that followers never make it. How about you, have you reached enlightenement or god realisation? Maybe on the path to awakening the guru is a barrier that must be crossed.

shp says:
I think the experience of 'awakeness' as you call it is not dependent on whether you 'follow' someone or not. I think that experience is so gently powerful and totally overwhelming that no outer circumstances determine its direction, voltage or flow.
To have or not to have a teacher (i.e. be a 'follower' as you put it) is just another one of millions and millions or paradoxes that one can get caught in, as I see it. To paraphrase you from above, to be a truly 'awake' human being, it is necessary to let go of paradoxes, one of which is 'should I be a follower or not?

Hal said:
Despite having left Maha I'm still awakening and learning to be more awake, I doubt that I will ever be able to let go of that quest. I just didn't think that M had delivered on his promises to me. I wasn't feeling what he talked about (well sometimes) . I didn't feel that I had made any extraordinary progress by being his student. Have you?

shp says:
I only have one life, so what can I compare it to? I feel very very good when I practice, and it accompanies me through the day, you know? When I put time into Knowledge, I get extraordinarily good feelings on levels that some folks here would criticize the way I describe it because it's indescribable and yet so simply just the enjoyment of being alive. THAT IS NOT A CLICHE, THAT IS THE REALITY. IT'S JUST THAT MOST PEOPLE DON'T REALLY APPRECIATE LIFE UNTIL THEY ALMOST LOSE IT. WHY WAIT TO HAVE GRATITUDE WHICH FEELS SO GOOD AND CONNECTS ONE TO THE GIVER OF LIFE ON OUR OWN INNER PLANES WHICH IS NOT FOR ANYONE ELSE'S SCRUTINY?

Hal said:
Awaiting your reply, (keep it fairly simple please as I'm not super intellectual )

shp says:
I hope I kept it simple enough for you, as you requested. I know I'm wordy and trying to be briefer without losing any of the message.

shp

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Date: Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 16:42:27 (GMT)
From: Hal
Email: None
To: shp
Subject: Thanks shp- you tried but didn't answer at all....
Message:
In fact very much the same sort of evasive quasi mystical answers that Maha may have given. So I take it that really your saying no no no in answer to the enlightenment or constant joy or total fulfillment questions?

You're doing well at the typical premie poster job of not really being open and honest Imo. Possibly you can't help it, after so many years indoctrination,
Bye shp,
No need for further communication. You are fairly well esconsed for the time being,
Hal

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Date: Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 03:14:31 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: shp
Subject: that's really nice, Sandy...
Message:
When I put time into Knowledge, I get extraordinarily good feelings on levels that some folks here would criticize the way I describe it because it's indescribable and yet so simply just the enjoyment of being alive. THAT IS NOT A CLICHE, THAT IS THE REALITY. IT'S JUST THAT MOST PEOPLE DON'T REALLY APPRECIATE LIFE UNTIL THEY ALMOST LOSE IT. WHY WAIT TO HAVE GRATITUDE WHICH FEELS SO GOOD AND CONNECTS ONE TO THE GIVER OF LIFE ON OUR OWN INNER PLANES WHICH IS NOT FOR ANYONE ELSE'S SCRUTINY

So how do you know most people don't 'really appreciate life' like you premies obviously do? And who is the 'giver of life' anyway? Which inner planes are we talking about? A G4 maybe?

It takes Nollige to get extraordinary good feelings? Shucks, then, with the lousy job goober does it of it, most folks are fucked. Guess that's why there's TV, huh?

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Date: Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 04:53:12 (GMT)
From: shp
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: back to you gerry
Message:
shp said:
When I put time into Knowledge, I get extraordinarily good feelings on levels that some folks here would criticize the way I describe it because it's indescribable and yet so simply just the enjoyment of being alive. THAT IS NOT A CLICHE, THAT IS THE REALITY. IT'S JUST THAT MOST PEOPLE DON'T REALLY APPRECIATE LIFE UNTIL THEY ALMOST LOSE IT. WHY WAIT TO HAVE GRATITUDE WHICH FEELS SO GOOD AND CONNECTS ONE TO THE GIVER OF LIFE ON OUR OWN INNER PLANES WHICH IS NOT FOR ANYONE ELSE'S SCRUTINY

gerry said:
So how do you know most people don't 'really appreciate life' like you premies obviously do?

shp says:
From simple observation on the highways, at work, in the malls, on the street, wherever there are people, I see very few happy or contented looking people. Most are in a hurry, little to no eye contact or any contact of a friendly nature to passersby, and on the roads especially I notice many are willing to jeopardize thier lives and the lives of those around them to get somewhere faster. What is with the 'you premies' shit? Can you knock that off and just talk to me? I never said that I thought all premies are hot and everyone else is not. That is not my experience, so please do not attempt to superimpose it on me. Thank you.

gerry said:
And who is the 'giver of life' anyway? Which inner planes are we talking about? A G4 maybe?

shp says:
The Giver of Life is the giver of life. If you have Life and you didn't invent it, create it or take it for yourself, then it was given to you, yes? So just chew on that for a minute and stop trying to mock and minimize. You are smarter than that. What's G4? I think you know what I mean about having an experience on the inside, and you are fucking with me.
That's OK. But I think you know what I mean.

gerry said:
It takes Nollige to get extraordinary good feelings? Shucks, then, with the lousy job goober does it of it, most folks are fucked. Guess that's why there's TV, huh?

shp says:
I just shared my experience with you, that's all. I never said
it takes Nollige to have extraordinary good feelings. You must be dizzy from all the spin you are doing. Better sit down before you fall down.

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Date: Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 17:06:25 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: shp
Subject: back to you gerry
Message:
From simple observation on the highways, at work, in the malls, on the street, wherever there are people, I see very few happy or contented looking people. Most are in a hurry, little to no eye contact or any contact of a friendly nature to passersby, and on the roads especially I notice many are willing to jeopardize thier lives and the lives of those around them to get somewhere faster.

Well you live in FUCKING NEW JERSEY, what do you expect ???

The Giver of Life is the giver of life. If you have Life and you didn't invent it, create it or take it for yourself, then it was given to you, yes? So just chew on that for a minute and stop trying to mock and minimize. You are smarter than that. What's G4? I think you know what I mean about having an experience on the inside, and you are fucking with me.
That's OK. But I think you know what I mean.

Goober wouldn't happen to be that 'giver of life' in your cosmology, now would he, Sandy? It's ok, you can 'fess up. I've heard it before. AND YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT THE G4 IS??? Well, I'm not telling...

What is with the 'you premies' shit? Can you knock that off and just talk to me? I never said that I thought all premies are hot and everyone else is not. That is not my experience, so please do not attempt to superimpose it on me.

Are you saying you are not a 'premie?' Isn't that the basis for our 'discussion' here? So there's nothing special about premies and as a corollary, nothing special about Special K?

Then why then are premies and goober repeatedly nattering on abut 'enjoying life' appreciation' like they got some special patent pending on the whole thing? I mean, isn't it just some old retread meditation techniques that 'work' for a few people, but not for most? (And, of course, a bhakti cult first and foremost. You do know what a bhakti cult is, don't you Sandy?)

Thank you.

Yer welcome.

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Date: Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 21:24:04 (GMT)
From: shp
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: back to you gerry
Message:
shp said:
From simple observation on the highways, at work, in the malls, on the street, wherever there are people, I see very few happy or contented looking people. Most are in a hurry, little to no eye contact or any contact of a friendly nature to passersby, and on the roads especially I notice many are willing to jeopardize
thier lives and the lives of those around them to get somewhere faster.

gerry said:
Well you live in FUCKING NEW JERSEY, what do you expect ???

shp says:
LOL! HA! Good one Ger! Really, you cracked me up. So you are saying it's acceptable to live like that if it's NJ? I see where I live as an extreme, yes, but it is an extreme of something that is going on everywhere. And since the contrast is greater here, maybe that's why I appreciate Knowledge more, because it is so thick here with pollution on all levels. In a really dark place, a light source easily attracts the attention of those seeking it.
shp said:
The Giver of Life is the giver of life. If you have Life and you didn't invent it, create it or take it for yourself, then it was given to you, yes? So just chew on that for a minute and stop trying to mock and minimize. You are smarter than that. What's G4? I think you know what I mean about having an experience on
the inside, and you are fucking with me. That's OK. But I think you know what I mean.

gerry said:
Goober wouldn't happen to be that 'giver of life' in your cosmology, now would he, Sandy? It's ok, you can 'fess up. I've heard it before.

shp says:
Is the cloud the source of the rain? Is the sun the source of the light? Or is there a much greater power behind all the physical manifestations, components and inhabitants of the universe from which all things and life itself manifest? That happens to be what I believe to be true. I love and appreciate all the people and ways that the Creator shows me love and attention, but my deepest gratitude and appreciation and love is to the One source of all life. No, I don't see that as Maharaji.
I see that as the same One that Maharaji refers to as Almighty God, and I don't think he means his father either.

gerry said:
AND YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT THE G4 IS??? Well, I'm not telling...

shp says:
Aw, c'mon...

shp said:
What is with the 'you premies' shit? Can you knock that off and just talk to me? I never said that I thought all premies are hot and everyone else is not. That is not my experience, so please do not attempt to superimpose it on me.

gerry said:
Are you saying you are not a 'premie?' Isn't that the basis for our 'discussion' here? So there's nothing special about premies and as a corollary, nothing special about Special K?

shp says:
No, I am not saying that I am not a premie. I am just asking you to keep it one-on-one and not suggest that our conversation is indicative of anything other than us two talking. All exers don't behave the same and neither do all premies.

gerry said:
Then why then are premies and goober repeatedly nattering on abut 'enjoying life' appreciation' like they got some special patent pending on the whole thing? I mean, isn't it just some old retread meditation techniques that 'work' for a few people, but not for most? (And, of course, a bhakti cult first and foremost. You do know what a bhakti cult is, don't you Sandy?)

shp says:
I can't speak for anyone else, but when I practice Knowledge, I am more acutely aware of the fact that everything in my life rides on the fact that I HAVE life, and that is the most precious and important thing to keep in the forefront of my consciousness.
It is not an effort or a pretense if it is really being experienced. Just like someone in love may look stupid skipping down the street or singing or whistling a happy tune...nowadays if someone is too happy, outside observers think that person is on drugs or something. In a death-oriented culture (check your local listings, news at 11), enjoying life or even the idea of that being a subject of constant conversation or thought seems
ridiculous to those immersed (consciously or subconsciously) in the downside of things.

Yeah, I know what bhakti is...devotion. And Maharaji is doing the opposite of acting like he has a patent on enjoying life. Rather, it's free and available to everyone, and he's not keeping it a secret that he is propogating it. Sounds like he's more into bringing it into the public domain rather than keeping it under a rock for his patent rights. He has always said that if somebody has peace and they are not interested in him, that's great. He wishes them well and has advised us to do the same. That does not sound like someone who thinks he has a patent on joy.

shp:
Thank you.

ger:
Yer welcome.

shp:
dontmenshunit.

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Date: Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 18:34:38 (GMT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: shp
Subject: Interesting question
Message:
I heard that Maharaji once answered when asked what was the most precious thing he gave us and he said 'each other' or so the story goes.

So, Maharaji gave us each other. You're out to lunch, dude. Maharaji gave ME to nobody. Same with you. Snap out of it.

I was shaken very deeply and have tried to understand and empathize and even help to make things better if I could.

And how do you think you can do that? In fact, what have you EVER done here besides get on peoples' nerves? We don't need premies coming around to 'make things better'. Where are you at? Who the fuck needs you for anything? You're a premie, dickwad. We need you like we need a hole in the head.

I never wanted or intended to make it a running debate. I wanted more of a dialog.

A dialog on what?? Earth to Sandy. Earth to Sandy. This is an ex-premie site. We have concluded that Maharaji is a fraud! What would you like to 'dialog' about that?

You tell me about 'shoulds'? Get off it. I accept responsibility for my own actions.

I'm just reminding you what the rules to being a premie are. If you don't like them, talk to Maharaji about it. He made them, not me.

He just wants us to practice Knowledge, to enjoy that personal experience of life itself, and give of ourselves to his work as able and willing.

Don't forget about 'keeping in touch'. And don't forget to keep some money on the side in case he suddenly should need a new jet or something. And forget about that bullshit about as far as you are willing. You should have nothing less than 110% to give. Anything less, Maharaji isn't interested in. And if you're such a true devotee, why would you want to give anything less? What's holding you back, Sandy?

I may well be a lousy premie. But I'd rather be a lousy premie at this point in my life than be a well-supported, Forum approved ex-premie.

Fine, then stay the fuck away from here.

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Date: Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 17:13:11 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: shp
Subject: sheep I take back anything nice I ever said about
Message:
you.

Boy that was a nice sunday sermon, reverend Pass.

The point is, you're still in the dumb cult we used to be in. Nanananananana!!!!

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Date: Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 20:20:24 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: SHP is Elaine's alter ego. (nt) ...looks like it..
Message:
nt
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Date: Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 18:32:27 (GMT)
From: shp
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: all the best to you (nt)
Message:
abcdefg
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Date: Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 21:24:14 (GMT)
From: Elaine
Email: None
To: shp
Subject: all the best to you
Message:
Yes, you and I seem alot alike. I've just noticed in this thread.

I thought it funny SB would say that 'nt' post above, just as I was thinking how calm,clear and thoughtful you were posting.
:)

(I thought you were a he and an ex - when I saw your name before.)

Do you personally feel that a teacher/Master (in the Indian tradition) is necessary for advancement in the spiritual 'realms'?(For lack of a better phrase.)

I don't know if you've recently read any posts by me - but, that is something I'm pondering.

Be prepared for ridicule if you answer - so if you don't, I'll understand. I'll come to some conclusion someday - on my own.

The crappy premie,
Elaine

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Date: Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 02:30:33 (GMT)
From: SB observing that
Email: None
To: Elaine
Subject: Elaine is full of pupu!! Totally.
Message:
Elaine wrote:
Yes, you and I seem alot alike. I've just noticed in this thread.

I thought it funny SB would say that 'nt' post above, just as I was thinking how calm,clear and thoughtful you were posting.

Thanks again for the laugh. You should be a comedian. LOL.ROFL...

How you see is far from the true. You do not show more than confussion and if you don't believe me, go back to the archives and read what you wrote since you began posting here. Oh, I forgot. How many of you are there?

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Date: Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 23:03:25 (GMT)
From: shp
Email: None
To: Elaine
Subject: reply to Elaine
Message:
Elaine said:
(I thought you were a he and an ex - when I saw your name before.)

shp says:
I am a 'he' and not an ex.

Elaine said:
Do you personally feel that a teacher/Master (in the Indian tradition) is necessary for advancement in the spiritual 'realms'?(For lack of a better phrase.)

shp says:
No. Maharaji has said that he is not everyone's teacher. He has also said that with alot of desire and effort and grace, someone can get there on their own, and a teacher can help make the journey a bit easier. As for 'in the Indian tradition', I feel that Maharaji is doing everything in his power to be 'OUT' of the Indian tradition, as in 'from it', but not steeped in it anymore.
He wants to appeal to anyone and everyone on the planet from wherever, if they are so drawn. He has spoken about Knowledge being like water, universally attractive, yet tasteless colorless and odorless...neutral and bland to he senses but ultimately necessary for life.

Elaine said:
I don't know if you've recently read any posts by me - but, that is something I'm pondering.

shp says:
Not much. But now that we are splittng fields, I will check some out.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 23:30:36 (GMT)
From: Elaine
Email: None
To: shp
Subject: reply to Elaine
Message:
He did? Now see I never knew that.

( with alot of desire and grace....get there on their own, etc.)

That's quite fascinating. Any more details on that sentence would be much appreciated.

Sandy's a nice guy's name,IMO.

Elaine

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 23:45:56 (GMT)
From: shp
Email: None
To: Elaine
Subject: reply to Elaine
Message:
Elaine responded:
He did? Now see I never knew that.

( with alot of desire and grace....get there on their own, etc.)

That's quite fascinating. Any more details on that sentence would be much appreciated.

shp says:
No, I don't have more information on that. But he did say it as quoted in an old Divine Times which I don't think I have anymore.
I had been trying to scale the mountain when I met up with him, and it made sense to accept the help since it seemed we were going in the same direction and he knew the way, as evidenced in my experience of Knowledge. The 'I can do it myself' thing was getting old. Humility to accept help is a step to getting there as I saw and experienced it. But that is just my story.
Everyone is the same on the inside, but different on the outside and in life experiences.

So I have to cut away from posting here for awhile. I'm just letting you and anyone else know so that if I don't respond to any verbal duals, I'm not being rude or avoiding anyone. Later.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 22:53:02 (GMT)
From: hamzen
Email: None
To: Elaine
Subject: Have a bit more confidence in yourself and you can
Message:
dump the guru, any guru, wholesale, if this stuff has any meaning it's about you and your life and how honest you're being, otherwise guru sucking is a form of copping out and lacking conviction, in fact very suburban, and covering all the angles when actually you haven't really made a committment to yourself.

Read up on some zen, shamanic, taoist, reiki stuff, a lot more real when it's real, even in those camps there is loads of bollox, although very little of the suburban head wankerdom you get in premieland.

As someone reminded me the other day, in gm's early days even he admitted occasionally, very occasionally, and probably to keep the anarchic hippies, that some day you'll have to let go of him to go further.

Read up some zen anarchists that were around, 'if you see the buddha' kill him etc, can't believe you're so unread as to have missed all that stuff, even in new age quarters there is a minority anti-guru angle.

Get real Elaine.
The freedom of taking responsibility for your own experiences is exhilararating, after the subservience around guru.

Also like you I gave almost zilch financially, but that ain't nothing to be proud of, that's just riding off the backs of other premies, and gave gm a get out clause, but underneath he's ALWAYS been pushing the finances.
You don't get an income of $500,000 permonth from nowhere, even as the best IBM programmer, patent watch designer, aircraft design consultant in the world, and he sure as hell ain't any of those. Well he did design a plane seat for fat cats with big arses like himself, and I bet even that premies were involved in designing.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 23:14:19 (GMT)
From: Elaine
Email: None
To: hamzen
Subject: Have a bit more confidence in yourself and you can
Message:
Oh brother,

There's just no room for sincere questions here - I don't 'suck up 'to M. I am not subservient to M. I don't know what bollocks,
Suburban (in this context), and wankering even mean ...I don't ride on premies backs..if I attend a program I pay the measly and fair fee of $30 for two days...I'm not poor...Don't need the condescention of 'can't believe you're so unread'...and then Get real Elaine...Who are you that you are so rude?
And you think you can address me like that?
You think that helps anyone grow or move on or learn?

Jesus,take some more fucking acid and find some fucking bliss,hamzen.
I'm finished reading anything from you or having any respect for you.I once thought you were a fair person that one could communicate with and learn something from.

Elaine

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 23:08:58 (GMT)
From: hamzen
Email: None
To: Elaine
Subject: Cest la vie
Message:
There's just no room for sincere questions here - I don't 'suck up 'to M. I am not subservient to M. I don't know what bollocks,
It's not about porky, it's about newage bubble thinking which is bollox, gm and all the other con merchants only exist because of this thinking, and that's what winds me up. Ssooooo sensitive....

.if I attend a program I pay the measly and fair fee of $30 for two days...I'm not poor... Without the premies who really pour in the dosh, gm wouldn't even be making videos or doing programs, you just don't get it do you.

Don't need the condescention of 'can't believe you're so unread'...and then Get real Elaine...Who are you that you are so rude?
An ex-premie who's pissed off with new-age sloppy slack filled bubble explanations masquerading as thinking.
And you think you can address me like that?

You think that helps anyone grow or move on or learn?

I'm not just here for you, I'm here for me too you know, fucking hell, again you just don't get it do you.

Jesus,take some more fucking acid and find some fucking bliss,hamzen.
Actually I haven't done any acid since 75, have no interest in doing any, and having plenty of bliss experiences thanx, but why assume that bliss is the answer to righteous anger as though it's a negative state.

I'm finished reading anything from you or having any respect for you.I once thought you were a fair person that one could communicate with and learn something from.

You don't know me at all, so if you've made assumptions that quick, well maybe you need to get out & about a bit more.
Is that fair, as in nice?? I'm sick of nice as a shadow side cover up if it's the only face on show, lifes deeper than that.
Respect I can take or leave, but not listening or learning from people just because one doesn't like them is a bit shallow, some of my best lessons have come from people who werte in my face, if that's a general rulew for you I reckon you've probably missed out on your best lessons!

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 00:02:54 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: Elaine
Subject: Elaine:Why so touchy and defensive, always.
Message:
GROW UP.We are all adults here.

I really like your question to shp. I can't believe you asked it.

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Date: Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 22:38:20 (GMT)
From: Smoove B
Email: None
To: Elaine
Subject: all the best to you
Message:
Do you personally feel that a teacher/Master (in the Indian tradition) is necessary for advancement in the spiritual 'realms'?(For lack of a better phrase.)

All you need is the love, baby, love like the kinds Smoove B would like to pour all over you. Dat mastuh Maharaji, he got nothing on the Smoove B. Try me, baby. You'll find out what a real mastuh is. I will take you to the 'realms' like where you never been before. Oh, yeah. I'll show you what a master is, baby. Smoove B is dere for you. Mmmmmm.

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Date: Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 10:33:27 (GMT)
From: Hal
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: Jerry you're really on form - superb stuff . nt
Message:
sdf
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Date: Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 03:30:32 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: I'm still thinking
Message:
how I want to answer because you open a can of worms.

Later

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Date: Sat, Jul 15, 2000 at 16:45:09 (GMT)
From: Ebay Alert
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: more!!!! hey, someone else thinks he's a cult lead
Message:
er. What a fluke! Twice in one day!

Cult leader Guru Maharaj Ji biography-1973 PB
Item #377828208

Books, Movies, Music:Books:Non-Fiction:Auto/Biography

Currently $2.29 First bid $2.29
Quantity 1 # of bids 1 bid history | with emails
Time left 3 days, 10 hours + Location Vancouver, B.C.
Country Canada
Started Jul-08-00 20:07:32 PDT mail this auction to a friend
Ends Jul-18-00 20:07:32 PDT watch this item

Seller (Rating) mister-mike (663)
view comments in seller's Feedback Profile | view seller's other auctions | ask seller a question

High bid mosesinvests (1)
Payment Money Order/Cashiers Checks, Personal Checks, Other, See item description for payment methods accepted
Shipping Seller ships internationally (worldwide), See item description for shipping charges

Seller assumes all responsibility for listing this item. You should contact the seller to resolve any questions before bidding. Auction currency is U.S. dollars ($) unless otherwise noted.

Description

Who is Guru Maharaj Ji?, edited by Charles Cameron with an introduction by Rennie Davis, was published by Bantam Books in 1973 -- this is the second printing. This paperback is 303 pages long, with 16 'illustrations of the Perfect Master and his followers.' This copy of the book is in good condition with some cover wear. There are some stamps/writing on the first couple of pages.
From the back cover:

Why do more than six million people around the world claim he is the greatest incarnation of God that ever trod the face of the planet? Why do Christian priests claim that he has taught them the way to love? Why do Hindus refer to him as the Swan Avatar? Why does revolutionary Rennie Davis claim that Guru Maharaj Ji is 'already the brightest event in the history of the planet'? Why have more than 280 centers of Guru Maharaj Ji's Divine Light Mission sprung up in America in the last two years -- all devoted to furthering his promise: 'I will establish peace in the world!'
COST OF SHIPPING THIS ITEM:

To the USA
By uninsured surface small packet US$2.25; by uninsured air small packet US$3.25
To other countries (not including Canada)
By uninsured surface small packet US$2.50; by uninsured air small packet US$3.50
Other options are available, including insurance and registration. Canadian customers please e-mail me for shipping rates.
METHOD OF PAYMENT:

Money order, cashier's check or cash (well-wrapped) are preferred. If using a U.S. postal money order, please make sure it is NOT the green variety as in this example: (click here). You can also use non-postal money orders such as Western Union, Traveller's Express, etc. Personal checks are OK for orders under $20; for orders over $20, they can delay shipment for up to 4 weeks from the time I receive them. I do not accept Paypal or any similar credit-card based payment methods (because I am in Canada). For further information on buying money orders, insurance/registration and liability, please see http://www.mjq.net/ebay/conditions.htm.

A prompt response within 3 business days (Monday-Friday) and payment within 3 weeks is expected after the auction closing date, otherwise the auction may be cancelled, the item relisted, and application made to Ebay for a refund of their commission.

Be sure and check out my other Ebay auctions.

INTERNATIONAL BUYERS WELCOME! WILL COMBINE MULTIPLE AUCTIONS TO SAVE ON SHIPPING!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
On Jul-09-00 at 18:37:28 PDT, seller added the following information:


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Bidding

Cult leader Guru Maharaj Ji biography-1973 PB
Item #377828208
Current bid: $2.29
Bid increment: $0.25
Your maximum bid:
(Minimum bid: $2.54)

eBay will bid incrementally on your behalf up to your maximum bid, which is kept secret from other eBay users. The eBay term for this is proxy bidding.

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Date: Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 19:34:11 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Ebay Alert
Subject: Who is Guru Maharaj Ji?
Message:
I was the successful bidder for the last copy of that book on ebay. I just arranged with the seller to send me the book. If anyone would like to borrow it, after I post some choice quotes, I'd be happy to send it around to people, as long as you swear on a stack of Baagavad Gitas that you will return it to me.
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Date: Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 01:40:24 (GMT)
From: la-ex
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Who is Guru Maharaj Ji?
Message:
Hey Joe-just curious-who was the seller?
Probably an old ex-premie...
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 01:08:36 (GMT)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Who is Guru Maharaj Ji?
Message:
Joe: I will borrow it when you're done. By the way, did you finish reading the book I lent you?!!!!!

Love, Marianne

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Date: Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 20:40:59 (GMT)
From: Elaine
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Who is Guru Maharaj Ji?
Message:
Joe,
How much did you end up paying? I may pick up a bunch more for 2-3 dollars at used stores for sale in another ten years?

Elaine

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Date: Sat, Jul 15, 2000 at 16:42:07 (GMT)
From: Ebay alert
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Lord of the Universe!!! cheap!!!!
Message:
and the text is so hilarious!

Guru Maharaji - Lord of the Universe - DLM
Item #380897557

Books, Movies, Music:Movies:Videos:Documentary

Currently $1.00 First bid $1.00
Quantity 1 # of bids 1 bid history | with emails
Time left 5 hours, 44 mins + Location Fort Lee NJ
Country/Region USA/New York
Started Jul-12-00 15:23:28 PDT mail this auction to a friend
Ends Jul-15-00 15:23:28 PDT watch this item

Seller (Rating) fetz3 (8)
view comments in seller's Feedback Profile | view seller's other auctions | ask seller a question

High bid jp2spidey (68)
Payment Money Order/Cashiers Checks
Shipping Buyer pays actual shipping charges, Seller ships internationally (worldwide), See item description for shipping charges

Seller assumes all responsibility for listing this item. You should contact the seller to resolve any questions before bidding. Auction currency is U.S. dollars ($) unless otherwise noted.

Description

I found this video at some old hippie's yard sale. It is a Documentary about a 15 year old Guru from India who comes over to America in the early 70's. I'm not sure if it was made to be funny, but it is histerical. It shows how things were in the 70's. People believed this guy could make the Houston Astrodome fly like a space ship. Then again it was the 70's and people did a lot of drugs back then. This Guru dude is supposedly the next coming of Christ or God or whatever. He goes by the monicker 'LORD OF THE UNIVERSE' he is the supreme leader of the DEVINE LIGHT MISSION, or some such nonsense. Have not seen him around lately, I think he got thrown out of the country for tax evasion or pedophilia or something in the late 70's. He used to own a big plantation in Cantelope Oregon, where he housed his 72 Rolls Royces. This is a must for any 70's wanna-be's or 70's throwbacks. Great retro stuff, would make a for a fun night to watch with friends and reminisce about the good ole days. Plus, there has got to be some old members of this guys clan that have survived the past few decades and can work a computer, and have figured out how to work Ebay, and want to see a video of their old leader, 'THE LORD OF THE UNIVERSE'. Man, I'm glad I missed the 70's. Winning bidder pays shipping of $3.20 in the US, and will accept full charges for overseas delivery (in case the Guru dude is reading this and wants to buy it, I ain't covering the cost to Bangladesh, Pal). Cashiers check or Money order only.

Bidding

Guru Maharaji - Lord of the Universe - DLM
Item #380897557
Current bid: $1.00
Bid increment: $0.25
Your maximum bid:
(Minimum bid: $1.25)

eBay will bid incrementally on your behalf up to your maximum bid, which is kept secret from other eBay users. The eBay term for this is proxy bidding.

Your bid is a contract - Place a bid only if you're serious about buying the item. If you are the winning bidder, you will enter into a legally binding contract to purchase the item from the seller.

How to Bid
1. Register to bid - if you haven't already. It's free!
2. Learn about this seller - read feedback comments left by others.
3. Know the details - read the item description and payment & shipping terms closely.
4. If you have questions - contact the seller fetz3 before you bid.
5. Place your bid!
eBay purchases are insured.

Top Questions From This Page
• How do I place a proxy bid? It looks like I can only place a maximum bid.
• Why doesn't my bid show up?
• What does 'reserve not yet met' mean?
• How can I change something or cancel my listing completely?
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• As a seller, how can I cancel an unwanted bid?
• Why does my email address appear when I have a User ID?
• How do I register?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Copyright © 1995-2000 eBay Inc. All Rights Reserved.
Designated trademarks and brands are the property of their respective owners.
Use of this Web site constitutes acceptance of the eBay User Agreement and Privacy Policy.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Jul 15, 2000 at 18:16:08 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Ebay alert
Subject: Lord of the Universe!!! cheap!!!!
Message:
Well, what is everyone waiting for, bid or not?

Salam

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Date: Sat, Jul 15, 2000 at 19:22:39 (GMT)
From: the bidding is up to
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: 14.85 and there are only 3 hours left nt
Message:
nt
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Jul 15, 2000 at 15:29:08 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Q to EV: did M's mahatmas ever claim he was God?
Message:
In their revisionist history of Porky Pal Singh, EV say that he (Mr Rawat - or Maharaji to his friends): 'gradually removed all Indian associations from his teaching ...'

Oh yeah? Then why, last year, did he spout this at Manchester?

click here

And, while we're at it, if he 'never claimed to be God', as Elan Vital would have us think, then why did he employ Indian Mahatmas to spout stuff like THIS ?

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Date: Sat, Jul 15, 2000 at 15:34:35 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Is Charanand still with the Maha?
Message:
... and if so, where's his retraction of the following statement:

'It is not child's play to become lost into pure consciousness, it can only be achieved by the Divine
Grace of the Perfect Master
which comes to those devotees who have totally dedicated themselves in order to spread His Sacred Knowledge for the
sake of humanity.' - 'Devotees are always in peace and attain the state of immortal bliss.' - 'Devotion is developed by the company of saints who always
sing the praises of the Lord and remember His Holy Name.

Without the company of saints there is no talk of the Lord, and one cannot be rid of doubts
except through satsang. And until one's doubts are dispelled one cannot have deep rooted affection for the Lotus Feet of the Supreme Lord Guru
Maharaj Ji
.

Doubts are only eradicated when one enjoys the fellowship of saints for a long time and listens to the delightful stories of the Perfect Master.

When the Lord assumes human form He performs various lilas (divine actions) which can only be recognized by the faithful devotees but not by those
who are steeped in lust, greed, anger and arrogance. The attributeless aspect of Godhead is easy to understand but no-one can comprehend the
embodied form. Even the sages are bewildered on hearing of the various exploits of the Lord. The real devotee knows His lilas because he loves God for
the sake of love alone, and asks nothing more than devotion.'

(Mahatma Gurucharnand Ji)

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Date: Sat, Jul 15, 2000 at 19:06:38 (GMT)
From: Hal
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: Is Charanand still with the Maha?
Message:
Hi cq,

Oh yes indeed, goodness gracious me, Mahatma Ji is stiil very much with the master , by his grace.

The premies still love Charanand Ji and his incredible love and devotion to the Mahaha. He ( Charanand) enjoys a pretty good life as a full time instructor. Lots of travel, tennis and golf, not to mention loads of premies vying for a chance to cook a meal for him and boast to others how he came to their house for dinner ! WOWEE!

He is very much a celebrity in premiedom. I did hear that he became a little disillusioned at one time in the last few years, and asked Maha if he should perhaps get married. Maha said ' no it wouldn't suit you'. I suspect that was because old Charanand is such a respected figure in the premie world and good for moral.

I think that he should have gone into the guru business for himself instead of being a mere employee. He could have done very well for himself.

Best wishes cq,
Hal

Ps He still follows Maha as the LORD OF THE UNIVERSE , even if Maha denies it publicly it's still implied. You see to a true devotee in the know , the denial is just another of the Lord's lilas!!!!!!

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Date: Wed, Jul 19, 2000 at 16:18:38 (GMT)
From: Curious George
Email: None
To: Hal
Subject: Is Charanand still with the Maha?
Message:
Hi Hal,

I feel sorry for Mahatma Guru Charnanand now. Maybe he found a girl-friend and M spoilt everything. Can you tell us a bit more
about it?

Curious

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Date: Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 12:29:33 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Hal
Subject: Charanand WAS in the guru business, Hal ...
Message:
In my day (gawd, what a boring old fart that makes me sound),

anyway ...

way back when, in the days before tank-tops and LOTU badges, he was called Mahatma Gurucharanand, and it was fairly well known that he had quite a following of his own before his 'merger' with DLM.

Perhaps our resident historian, Jean-Michel can tell us more?

BTW, that's some dangerous 'lila' to play with, if it means the 'Lord' can re-write history simply to get at another slice of the market.

Bet you're glad you're out, Hal!

Here's to freedom ...

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Jul 15, 2000 at 14:31:12 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: From the horses' mouth
Message:

Anyone remember the book 'Who is Guru Maharaj Ji', the porcine one's 'authorised biography'?

Well, Elan Vital's revisionist writers might care to note that, on the back cover of that book (all copies of which the Maha tried to have destroyed!) it says:

QUOTE:

'Why do more than six million people around the world claim he is the greatest incarnation of God that ever trod the face of this planet?
Why do Christian priests claim that he has taught them the way to love? Why do Hindus refer to him as the Swan Avatar?
Why does revolutionary Rennie Davis claim that Guru Maharaj Ji is 'already the brightest event in the history of the planet?'
Why have more than 280 centres of Guru Maharaj Ji's Divine Light Mission sprung up in America in the last two years -- all devoted to furthering his promise: 'I will establish peace in the world!'

ENDQUOTE


It's quite amazing that Elan Vital now say he never claimed to be God.

Like I said - they're pork-pie merchants, the lot of them
(and pretty damn stupid too!)

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 03:19:27 (GMT)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: Oh Chris!!!!
Message:
Chris: Although I read the book, memory fails me. Is it credited as a publication of Divine Light Mission? Isn't there a Forward or something, written by Bob Mishler, head of DLM? What exactly are the credits on the book? Does each chapter claim that M is God?

What exactly does the book say about DLM?

Marianne

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Date: Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 13:01:06 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: Who me????
Message:
Dunno the answers to those questions, Marianne (got the info from the same site as Joe (see Ebay Alert's posts above).

My own copy eventually fell apart after the covers got used up for one roach too many!

We'll just have to wait for Joe to get reading and posting some of the juicer bits.

Enjoy

Chris

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Jul 15, 2000 at 15:07:48 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: latest revision: M's mansion a 'leaking bungalow'
Message:
... and more can be found here: http://www.elanvital.org/behind_the_message.htm


'In 1974, when being driven up the Pacific Coast Highway in Malibu,
he saw a dilapidated structure atop an isolated mountain and it caught his eye.
The leaking bungalow, built as a weekend retreat by a Hollywood director, was
some way off from the celebrated beach-side community. Maharaji was
unaware of the kudos of the area, but the beauty of the landscape was
breathtaking and gave him a sense of refuge from the very adult responsibilities
that he had to face on a daily basis.

Eleven months after their marriage, Maharaji and Marolyn had their first child, a
girl they named Premlata. Three more children followed, Hans, Dayalata and
Amar.

The family still live in the same house, now rebuilt and added to. Maharaji
relishes it as his quiet family retreat, when taking a break from his busy schedule
of relentless travel and tours.'

.................................

................................


Anyone for another Melton Mowbray?


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Date: Sat, Jul 15, 2000 at 21:32:03 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: BS!!!!
Message:
My premie ex-husband was there few years a go when Maharaji was re-building it. Noticed how they want to make it 'sound' like just another house...With all the devotion my ex had (still does, poor soul)for Maharaji he came back from there totally sick, Maharaji would call it 'in his mind', because according to him he couldn't understand what he saw. What did he see? An incredible luxurious mansion and many, many premies there working for free, for their Lord. He commented that he couldn't understand what he saw, why Maharaji lives in such a luxurious way. He didn't like waht he saw...and how did Maharaji ended up with that house? Investments...not that he did! The premies did it for his Lord. THE PREMIES DID EVERYTHING FOR TOU LARD!!

Constantly in those days Mahatmas/instructores where passing by our city to request that we had fund raisings,garage sales or to just pass info (only to the regulars)that money was needed 'to spread Knowledge' around the world. That is the synchronization Maharaji talks about LATELY THAT HAS ALWAYS EXISTED: It was a world effort to raise money. Where all the money went? Cash was involved and cannot be traced? WHO GAVE MAHARAJI THE MONEY FOR HIS MANSION? HIS PREMIES. MAHALARD, YOU ARE A THIEF YOURSELF, the leader AND YOU SORROUND YOURSELF WITH OTHERS (pamS)!!

Fundraising. David Smith and David Mancof can come and deny it if they want to. I said this here before. Have they come here to deny it? They can't. Many people were present and many of them have left: Is too confronting!

No small house, no.

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Date: Sat, Jul 15, 2000 at 21:07:07 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: 'the roof leaks'
Message:
So Prem Rawat saw this old shack and figured that he just had to live there because of the 'beauty of the landscape'. Yes, the landscape, this hill in Malibu, was just too much to resist, even though the house was ready to fall down.

The Hollywood director, being poverty-stricken, just couldn't afford to build something better than a 'dilapidated structure' for a weekend retreat.

Sure.

I remember being told the following:

'The roof leaks' was one excuse for replacing the old house (not mansion, oh no) with a bigger and better new one. Another excuse was that the kids needed their own bedrooms. These were reasons that were presented by Divine Light Mission/Elan Vital personnel when they asked for donations to build a new house for the Rawat family. The new house was built near the old one. After the new one was completed, the old one was torn down. I don't think they mentioned a huge garage to store his many luxury automobiles, I believe they said there would be a garage for visitors (So where does he store those cars?). They described (with great pride) plans for heated marble floors and fancy automatic windows that could be completely lowered to below the floor.

Are we to believe that in all the years they lived in the old house, they actually lived in a leaky hut whose roof (for some strange unknown reason) could not be fixed? I've seen footage of the 'dilapidated structure', the 'leaking bungalow', it sure looked like a mansion to me, at least from the outside. I don't know, maybe according to Prem Rawat's discriminating tastes it was a bungalow, only the finest will do for him. As to still living in the same house, that's hogwash.

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Date: Sat, Jul 15, 2000 at 21:55:27 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: all
Subject: About 400,000 for road improvements
Message:
I remember another time DLM/DV personnel asked premies for around $400,000 to $500,000 in 'donations' just for road improvements for the Malibu mansion. I forget whether the money went to EV or to Rawat directly. They said it would make it easier for him to get to the house.

Another time they asked for a substantial amount of money to buy additional land around the Malibu 'residence'. I think it was in the hundreds of thousands. He needed that land in order to 'spread Knowledge'??? I think the excuse might have been that it was for his 'security' (i.e. paranoia).

An aside:
Prem one time talked about his brother 'Raja ji' ruining a Mercedes. I forget the details, but it involved Rogerji doing some reckless driving. He was talking about some nut doing something crazy with a Mercedes, described a wrecked Mercedes with its wheels still spinning, and then said, 'and if you're wondering who that was, it was my brother'. He seemed to think the whole thing was amusing. I don't, Mercedes cost a lot of money, this one apparently bought with hard-earned money donated by premies somehow thinking they were contributing to a worthy cause.

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Date: Sat, Jul 15, 2000 at 20:02:58 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: all
Subject: blueprints of the humble little home
Message:
For anyone who didn't know about this; someone sent in blueprints of the house, along with descrpitions of such humble features as the master bedrooms's ocean view glass wall that slides down into the floor, a dumb waiter, etc....
They are on this site:

http://www.ex-premie.org/pages/malibu.htm

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Date: Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 00:43:39 (GMT)
From: bill
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: dont fergit the miami mansion. (nt)
Message:
pdofig
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Date: Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 16:22:56 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: bill
Subject: dont fergit the mansions in UK, Aust. and India.nt
Message:
nt
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