Forum V: Archive
Compiled: Wed, Aug 02, 2000 at 01:36:49 (GMT)
From: Jul 20, 2000 To: Jul 28, 2000 Page: 5 Of: 5


Jerry -:- What would we do? -:- Thurs, Jul 20, 2000 at 21:00:01 (GMT)
__ Sir David -:- No master will help dear Henry -:- Fri, Jul 21, 2000 at 02:37:24 (GMT)
__ __ Katie -:- Great post, David - you are a good man (nt) -:- Fri, Jul 21, 2000 at 13:52:21 (GMT)
__ __ Jim -:- You've got a lot of courage, Dave -:- Fri, Jul 21, 2000 at 03:05:20 (GMT)
__ __ tonette -:- well said -:- Fri, Jul 21, 2000 at 02:56:29 (GMT)
__ __ __ KMDarling -:- THIS REMINDS ME OF MY FINAL ESCAPE FROM LARDY -:- Fri, Jul 21, 2000 at 17:57:41 (GMT)
__ __ __ Salam -:- Good on you Sir. David..nt -:- Fri, Jul 21, 2000 at 11:23:18 (GMT)

Tips -:- The Former Lord of the Universe Residence Heliport -:- Thurs, Jul 20, 2000 at 20:33:27 (GMT)
__ Jean-Michel -:- Anybody got that map? and email it to me? -:- Fri, Jul 21, 2000 at 07:13:55 (GMT)
__ __ Jean-Michel -:- ANYBODY HAVING THAT MAP? -:- Fri, Jul 21, 2000 at 16:12:01 (GMT)
__ __ __ GAC -:- HERE''S THE LINK? -:- Fri, Jul 21, 2000 at 20:08:24 (GMT)
__ __ __ Jim -:- DON'T USE THAT GERUND ON ME, MONSIEUR! -:- Fri, Jul 21, 2000 at 16:30:34 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Jean-Michel -:- Sorry Jim, the map doesn't load on that page -:- Fri, Jul 21, 2000 at 16:48:18 (GMT)
__ G -:- Anacapa View Estates -:- Thurs, Jul 20, 2000 at 22:01:35 (GMT)
__ __ JtF -:- Do Rawat's neighbors know his line of work?(nt) -:- Fri, Jul 21, 2000 at 09:37:22 (GMT)

buzz -:- techniques -:- Thurs, Jul 20, 2000 at 17:01:21 (GMT)
__ Jim -:- Oh wow. Bring back the magic! (nt) -:- Fri, Jul 21, 2000 at 03:03:12 (GMT)
__ Way -:- Re:techniques -:- Thurs, Jul 20, 2000 at 17:09:07 (GMT)
__ __ buzz -:- Re:techniques -:- Thurs, Jul 20, 2000 at 17:12:22 (GMT)
__ __ __ Way -:- Re:techniques -:- Thurs, Jul 20, 2000 at 17:26:56 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ buzz -:- Re:techniques -:- Thurs, Jul 20, 2000 at 22:45:13 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ buzz -:- Re:techniques -:- Thurs, Jul 20, 2000 at 23:39:52 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ SaLAM -:- so are you gona reveal the secret -:- Fri, Jul 21, 2000 at 02:16:49 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ buzz -:- so are you gona reveal the secret -:- Fri, Jul 21, 2000 at 05:04:50 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Salam -:- buzz, you must be a parrot, because you keep repea -:- Fri, Jul 21, 2000 at 06:55:41 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jean-Michel -:- Call an instructor ... here it is !!! -:- Fri, Jul 21, 2000 at 10:29:30 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Salam -:- Nice to see you are still around JM, you posted be -:- Fri, Jul 21, 2000 at 11:13:00 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jean-Michel -:- Great, now we have a full team !!! -:- Fri, Jul 21, 2000 at 13:05:35 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Salam -:- sounds like a knowledge session to me..nt -:- Fri, Jul 21, 2000 at 13:15:48 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jean-Michel -:- Yeah! don't you feel the grace flowing? (nt) -:- Fri, Jul 21, 2000 at 14:13:55 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ SB -:- Hey, Salam, maybe he is sick. He looks sick to me. -:- Fri, Jul 21, 2000 at 07:00:00 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Salam -:- I do not know what hole he came out from, made a -:- Fri, Jul 21, 2000 at 07:24:54 (GMT)

Michael -:- Premie Bible-thumpers -:- Thurs, Jul 20, 2000 at 16:37:32 (GMT)
__ shp -:- to the ex-Premie Bible-thumpers thumper -:- Sat, Jul 22, 2000 at 19:41:48 (GMT)
__ __ Michael -:- to the ex-Premie Bible-thumpers thumper -:- Mon, Jul 24, 2000 at 04:06:56 (GMT)
__ VP -:- Premie Bible-thumpers -:- Thurs, Jul 20, 2000 at 17:10:26 (GMT)
__ __ Jean-Michel -:- Hey, it's all here on the EV-DLM Papers!!! -:- Thurs, Jul 20, 2000 at 17:38:03 (GMT)
__ __ __ VP -:- Thanks, JM -:- Thurs, Jul 20, 2000 at 17:40:28 (GMT)

Mel Bourne -:- Revisionism and Jim's nostalgia -:- Thurs, Jul 20, 2000 at 16:25:57 (GMT)
__ Jim -:- Mel, Mel, Mel ... what are we going to do with u? -:- Fri, Jul 21, 2000 at 00:58:26 (GMT)
__ __ Shroomananda -:- Some of your clients in jail... Are you a defense -:- Fri, Jul 21, 2000 at 02:04:18 (GMT)
__ __ __ Jim -:- Have you posted here under another name? -:- Fri, Jul 21, 2000 at 02:19:36 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Shroomananda -:- Yes, Jim. I also have posted under my real name -:- Fri, Jul 21, 2000 at 03:17:19 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Is that the ONLY other name? -:- Fri, Jul 21, 2000 at 06:10:37 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Shroomananda -:- I'm a human being trying to have a civilized -:- Fri, Jul 21, 2000 at 07:08:58 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- You represent the nadir of civility, Shroom -:- Fri, Jul 21, 2000 at 15:46:27 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Shroomananda -:- Nadir of Civility, Jim? I like it. It has a nice -:- Sat, Jul 22, 2000 at 07:18:09 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Literally, how dumb can you pretend to be? -:- Sat, Jul 22, 2000 at 18:08:19 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Shroomananda -:- The purpose of faith is to ignore the lies? If -:- Sat, Jul 22, 2000 at 19:30:04 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jerry -:- I confess, I confess! -:- Fri, Jul 21, 2000 at 10:47:10 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ a friend -:- Jim, it's reins, not reigns (nt) -:- Fri, Jul 21, 2000 at 20:03:19 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- Not this asshole again -:- Fri, Jul 21, 2000 at 03:31:29 (GMT)
__ __ ham -:- Two weeks a month premie free should do it -:- Fri, Jul 21, 2000 at 01:44:14 (GMT)
__ hamzen -:- In India he still says exactly the same shit -:- Thurs, Jul 20, 2000 at 23:41:53 (GMT)
__ Jerry -:- Revisionism and Mel playing dumb -:- Thurs, Jul 20, 2000 at 19:38:54 (GMT)
__ VP -:- Mel, I would appreciate an answer from you -:- Thurs, Jul 20, 2000 at 17:29:10 (GMT)
__ Joe -:- Revisionism and Jim's nostalgia -:- Thurs, Jul 20, 2000 at 17:21:01 (GMT)
__ __ Lotus Eater -:- Joe dear, Great Post -:- Thurs, Jul 20, 2000 at 23:13:14 (GMT)
__ __ __ Joe -:- Thanks, Lotus, and I have a question... -:- Thurs, Jul 20, 2000 at 23:52:11 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Lotus Eater -:- countering the cult -:- Fri, Jul 21, 2000 at 22:33:37 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- countering the cult -:- Sat, Jul 22, 2000 at 04:54:52 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ cq -:- countering the cult- and an idea to move things on -:- Sat, Jul 22, 2000 at 17:46:08 (GMT)
__ __ Joe -:- Correction -:- Thurs, Jul 20, 2000 at 17:26:35 (GMT)
__ Way -:- Re:Revisionism and Jim's nostalgia -:- Thurs, Jul 20, 2000 at 17:04:54 (GMT)
__ __ PCH -:- by the way, Way -:- Thurs, Jul 20, 2000 at 18:30:44 (GMT)
__ __ __ VP -:- This, I gotta see... -:- Thurs, Jul 20, 2000 at 21:37:04 (GMT)
__ __ __ Way -:- To PCH -:- Thurs, Jul 20, 2000 at 19:03:18 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ PCH -:- To PCH -:- Thurs, Jul 20, 2000 at 19:32:31 (GMT)
__ P-man -:- It's very simple, Mel... -:- Thurs, Jul 20, 2000 at 17:00:17 (GMT)

Way -:- Question to Brits: about your Queen -:- Thurs, Jul 20, 2000 at 15:14:35 (GMT)
__ AJW -:- The French know how to treat Royalty -:- Fri, Jul 21, 2000 at 07:56:27 (GMT)
__ __ JohnT -:- ... us too. Charles 1st. Those were the days.(nt) -:- Fri, Jul 21, 2000 at 08:27:58 (GMT)
__ hamzen -:- No, but I'd seriously reduce their income -:- Fri, Jul 21, 2000 at 02:56:16 (GMT)
__ __ Jethro -:- The Queen is an example od dedication -:- Fri, Jul 21, 2000 at 03:26:25 (GMT)
__ __ Jethro -:- The Queen is wonderful -:- Fri, Jul 21, 2000 at 03:17:33 (GMT)
__ cq -:- Her Maj's a pretty nice girl ... -:- Thurs, Jul 20, 2000 at 16:17:07 (GMT)
__ __ John ,Paul , George and R -:- But she doesn't have a lot to say! -:- Fri, Jul 21, 2000 at 15:59:08 (GMT)
__ __ Tonette -:- good one! nt -:- Thurs, Jul 20, 2000 at 19:40:29 (GMT)
__ __ Her Majesty -:- WE are not amused.....nt -:- Thurs, Jul 20, 2000 at 18:56:50 (GMT)
__ __ __ Way -:- Thanks -:- Fri, Jul 21, 2000 at 14:43:27 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ cq -:- Check out this little lot too, Way: -:- Fri, Jul 21, 2000 at 20:27:14 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ cq -:- strange, that didn't seem to work. Take 2: -:- Fri, Jul 21, 2000 at 20:34:57 (GMT)

Salam -:- This perfect master makes money selling cook books -:- Thurs, Jul 20, 2000 at 14:59:20 (GMT)
__ jondon -:- This perfect master makes money selling cook books -:- Thurs, Jul 20, 2000 at 21:00:35 (GMT)

Zelda -:- To Rob: Candle still burning- -:- Thurs, Jul 20, 2000 at 11:33:03 (GMT)
__ Selene -:- to Zelda - why does Gerry -:- Thurs, Jul 20, 2000 at 15:10:16 (GMT)
__ __ Zelda -:- to Zelda - why does Gerry -:- Thurs, Jul 20, 2000 at 18:24:18 (GMT)
__ __ __ gerry -:- fogettaboutit (nt) -:- Fri, Jul 21, 2000 at 03:36:01 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Zelda -:- gerry- whut? :))) nt -:- Fri, Jul 21, 2000 at 04:55:21 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- gerry- whut? :))) nt -:- Fri, Jul 21, 2000 at 23:48:38 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Zelda -:- I too was being some dictionary word.... -:- Sat, Jul 22, 2000 at 03:30:20 (GMT)

Marketing Researce Firm -:- Have 'hacked' all anti-religious chats -:- Thurs, Jul 20, 2000 at 08:38:53 (GMT)
__ Jimbo -:- Have 'hacked' all anti-religious chats -:- Thurs, Jul 20, 2000 at 08:50:29 (GMT)
__ __ Salam -:- Brainwashed.Com, I will take that..(nt) -:- Thurs, Jul 20, 2000 at 12:39:29 (GMT)

Salam -:- FA: is there a hacker in this forum -:- Thurs, Jul 20, 2000 at 02:20:34 (GMT)
__ G -:- If so, maybe it's Zen? see below re: 'zensolo' -:- Thurs, Jul 20, 2000 at 03:31:20 (GMT)
__ __ SB -:- If so, maybe it's Zen? see below re: 'zensolo' -:- Thurs, Jul 20, 2000 at 04:08:33 (GMT)
__ __ __ hamzen -:- Maybe I should be flattered by the similar name! -:- Fri, Jul 21, 2000 at 02:40:41 (GMT)
__ __ __ Salam -:- If so, maybe it's Zen? see below re: 'zensolo' -:- Thurs, Jul 20, 2000 at 06:22:12 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ G -:- So no real hacking happened? (nt) -:- Fri, Jul 21, 2000 at 03:42:18 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ SB -:- FA won't answer me either.(nt) -:- Sun, Jul 23, 2000 at 15:12:38 (GMT)
__ __ Salam -:- So are we sitting ducks -:- Thurs, Jul 20, 2000 at 03:44:47 (GMT)
__ __ Selene -:- and if so Salam -:- Thurs, Jul 20, 2000 at 03:43:28 (GMT)

Jim -:- FA's: How about a new policy for jerks? -:- Thurs, Jul 20, 2000 at 01:45:05 (GMT)
__ Forum Admin -:- No new policy necessary in this case -:- Thurs, Jul 20, 2000 at 17:05:41 (GMT)
__ __ Shroomananda -:- Are you closing the door or can I still post here? -:- Fri, Jul 21, 2000 at 01:50:22 (GMT)
__ __ __ Jim -:- What other names have you used? (nt) -:- Fri, Jul 21, 2000 at 02:31:18 (GMT)
__ __ Jim -:- Thanks, FA. BTW, what other aliases ? (nt) -:- Fri, Jul 21, 2000 at 00:12:30 (GMT)
__ SB -:- 'Shrooms alike' shouldn't be allowed to stay here -:- Thurs, Jul 20, 2000 at 02:55:57 (GMT)
__ Bubba -:- FA's: How about a new policy for jerks? -:- Thurs, Jul 20, 2000 at 02:41:51 (GMT)
__ __ Hal -:- Attention world this Bubba ia a cult follower ! nt -:- Thurs, Jul 20, 2000 at 18:44:21 (GMT)
__ __ SB to bubalu -:- How many times have you posted here? (nt) -:- Thurs, Jul 20, 2000 at 02:58:00 (GMT)
__ __ __ Bubbu -:- How many times have you posted here? (nt) -:- Thurs, Jul 20, 2000 at 05:25:51 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ SBelt -:- See? M drives people mad -:- Thurs, Jul 20, 2000 at 05:34:48 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Bubba -:- See? M drives people mad -:- Thurs, Jul 20, 2000 at 05:56:56 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ SB -:- Listen 'Roberto', you are listening...(nt) -:- Thurs, Jul 20, 2000 at 12:48:17 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- methinks you are onto something here SB -:- Thurs, Jul 20, 2000 at 20:44:11 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ SB -:- methinks you are onto something here SB -:- Fri, Jul 21, 2000 at 01:30:02 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Felix the ... -:- A chimp? Or was it a chump? -:- Fri, Jul 21, 2000 at 05:13:52 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- I'll email you SB! -:- Fri, Jul 21, 2000 at 04:19:58 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ SB -:- I'll email you SB! -:- Fri, Jul 21, 2000 at 07:32:46 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Felix the CAT -:- I'll email you SB! -:- Fri, Jul 21, 2000 at 09:03:45 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Katie -:- SB.: Felix is Catweasel (IMHO) -:- Fri, Jul 21, 2000 at 10:26:49 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ MagicMushroom -:- a few shrooms? or a room with a view? RWV -:- Thurs, Jul 20, 2000 at 07:14:39 (GMT)

Susan -:- Forum monitor: How does one get this position? -:- Thurs, Jul 20, 2000 at 01:23:36 (GMT)
__ Selene -:- it's very hard to find anyone to do it -:- Thurs, Jul 20, 2000 at 03:25:32 (GMT)
__ __ Susan -:- oh no that is not what I meant! -:- Thurs, Jul 20, 2000 at 04:06:52 (GMT)
__ __ __ Selene -:- OH! HA yeah that would be interesting -:- Thurs, Jul 20, 2000 at 04:11:00 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Susan -:- yes, people always liked service that prooved they -:- Thurs, Jul 20, 2000 at 04:17:44 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- and Hi from Selene ! -:- Thurs, Jul 20, 2000 at 04:22:38 (GMT)
__ barney -:- Forum monitor: How does one get this position? -:- Thurs, Jul 20, 2000 at 03:04:51 (GMT)
__ __ Know It All -:- barney! -:- Thurs, Jul 20, 2000 at 15:51:28 (GMT)


Date: Thurs, Jul 20, 2000 at 21:00:01 (GMT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: What would we do?
Message:
The obvious: what you are looking for is inside of you. The joy you are looking for is inside of you. The happiness that you are looking for is inside of you.'

Maharaji

How many people make a living running around the globe telling people this? You wonder what would we all do if M wasn't here to tell us what we need and where to find it. Imagine a world where there is no Maharaji, no Knowledge. Do you think there would be no chance for happiness? Imagine a world where there are no masters. What would we all do? I guess we'd have to figure out how to get by somehow. Do you think we'd be able to swing it? What kind of person is so full of himself that he thinks the whole world needs him?

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Date: Fri, Jul 21, 2000 at 02:37:24 (GMT)
From: Sir David
Email: sirdavid12@hotmail.com
To: Jerry
Subject: No master will help dear Henry
Message:
I wasn't going to write a message but I will say just this: Maharaji and his closed cult of Elan Vital is so far removed from the real world that it has no bearing on it.

I have spent the last week in hospital with my old problem and there in the corner of the ward was an old boy called Henry, who is slowly dying and has no visitors or friends to come and see him. He doesn't have an Elan Vital smart card, neither does he have a satellite dish to receive the master's broadcasts. In fact, he would not hear them too well because he is fairly deaf.

I will try and get in touch with the hospital Chaplin or some such authority and see if we can get Henry some regular visits and perhaps get him wheeled outside in a chair now and then. The hospital staff don't have time to do this.

My daughter of eight years wrote something very nice today. She wrote that we who have friends can help the people who don't have friends. She didn't require a 'master' to teach her that; just the experience and natural compassion of a young girl. She didn't need a 'master' to show her that it is in giving and interacting with others that the greatest happiness is gained.

Maharaji's world is a closed cult. The whole world with all of its joy and sorrow is outside of it. I would rather feel the pain of knowing about dear Henry in the hospital than live in a closed cult where caring for others is considered a waste of time. Joy is inside, of course and so is all feeling and none of it is to be denied, not even the sorrow and the compassion.

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Date: Fri, Jul 21, 2000 at 13:52:21 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Sir David
Subject: Great post, David - you are a good man (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Fri, Jul 21, 2000 at 03:05:20 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Sir David
Subject: You've got a lot of courage, Dave
Message:
But then what else would I expect?

Maharaji doesn't hold a candle to you.

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Date: Fri, Jul 21, 2000 at 02:56:29 (GMT)
From: tonette
Email: None
To: Sir David
Subject: well said
Message:
What compassion and love I feel from your words. Gee, and to think that with all that beauty you express, you aren't even connected to 'The Master.' What will all the premies think? Fact is, what you said is true. To be a premie is to exist in a 'twightlight zone' reality. So far removed from what is really happening, from what is happening in your own backyard. Family, friends, children, marriages; the important stuff. The people who stick with you through thick and thin. Tangible. Anyone who dedicates or recognizes someone other than God himself as their 'Master' is essentially unbalanced. Godspeed to all those deluded souls who believe in Maharaji.
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Date: Fri, Jul 21, 2000 at 17:57:41 (GMT)
From: KMDarling
Email: None
To: all of the above
Subject: THIS REMINDS ME OF MY FINAL ESCAPE FROM LARDY
Message:
Talking about the compassion in Dave's words and that Lardy doesn't hold a candle to this kind of humanness reminds me of the exciting story of my final escape from Larddom:

It was 1984, I think, and I was sort of half-in, half-out, having a hard time with a lot of the premies for getting into all this other stuff like therapy. But I lived in Miami and the premie world was my world, and it seemed hard to just completely go away. There was a program somewhere in Pennsylvania - I think it was in a place called (!) Bethlehem. I think it was MJ's birthday, and instead of satsang they had a bunch of professional performers. I went because I wasn't completely sure if I was in or out, and my incredible friend Larry Furman was the M.C. So I'm sitting there feeling a bit conflicted. The vibe was good, with all those happy people, and I was in the row behind MJ and his family, and found myself, almost by default, gazing adoringly at the back of the Lardy neck. I had become pretty clear and detached before going to this thing, and all of a sudden I felt these strings being yanked and I was a devotee --no! a GOPI -- again. It was a bit like the sort of feeling that you get when you are trying to get over a love affair and the person walks in the room and you feel this habitual zap of love or significance, because at one time you had decided to give them that, and your nervous system hasn't caught up with the changes. This was a moment when my soul was in peril! ;) I nearly fell back in lardy love and lost myself again. And then, AND THEN, Larry ambled onto the stage as the M.C. carrying this ridiculous huge boombox which I had watched him make in his garage (he's so creative and crazy and of course, now an ex). I saw him, my beloved friend, and felt such a rush of love, real love, human love, that it cured me of the dark-enmeshed-soulcaptured rush I was starting to spontaneously generate towards MJ. I walked out feeling free, and that was it.
Thanks Larry, and all my other human teachers.

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Date: Fri, Jul 21, 2000 at 11:23:18 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Sir David
Subject: Good on you Sir. David..nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Thurs, Jul 20, 2000 at 20:33:27 (GMT)
From: Tips
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: The Former Lord of the Universe Residence Heliport
Message:
Hi All,

This is interesting!

Hey we paid for it so it's public ;-)

Identity: CL1Ø

Location: MALIBU, CA, ANACAPA VIEW ESTATES HELIPORT

Tie In FAC: HHR

Cntr: ZLA

Heliport Map!

Best to all,
T

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Date: Fri, Jul 21, 2000 at 07:13:55 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: jmkahn@club-internet.fr
To: Tips
Subject: Anybody got that map? and email it to me?
Message:
doesn't appear on the page .....
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Date: Fri, Jul 21, 2000 at 16:12:01 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: ANYBODY HAVING THAT MAP?
Message:
Would be great to illustrate some stuff on this website !!!
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Date: Fri, Jul 21, 2000 at 20:08:24 (GMT)
From: GAC
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: HERE''S THE LINK?
Message:
JM,

Here's the link:

http://www2.fallingrain.com/air/index.cgi?info=14878

GAC

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Date: Fri, Jul 21, 2000 at 16:30:34 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: DON'T USE THAT GERUND ON ME, MONSIEUR!
Message:
Hey, JM, what's with this 'having' bullshit? I thought you were an ex!

It's 'have' as in 'Anybody have ....'

Je peux dire comme ca juste par-ce que mon francais est parfait, n'est-ce que pas?

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Date: Fri, Jul 21, 2000 at 16:48:18 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Sorry Jim, the map doesn't load on that page
Message:
and I'd really like to have that picture .......
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Date: Thurs, Jul 20, 2000 at 22:01:35 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: Tips
Subject: Anacapa View Estates
Message:
More on Maharaji's Malibu Marble Mansion:

Here are some more links regarding Seva Corporation dba Anacapa View Estates. After each link is relevant text:

DWR Report Review Summary March 28, 1998


Cont use of exist residential helipad at 5865 S Rambla del Oro, Malibu vic PCH

California Coastal
Commission March 1997 Meeting Notice


...pave 1225 linear ft. (17435 sq.ft.) part of dirt road to provide all-weather access, and reduce 62' diameter driveway turnaround to 39' 6' diameter turnaround, with no grading, at 5865 South Rambla Del Orto, Malibu, Los Angeles County. (SMH-V) [APPROVED WITH CONDITIONS]

California Coastal
Commission September 1997 Meeting Agenda


...lot line adjustments to 8 contiguous lots over 27.81 acres, with no grading, changes to septic system or creation of new lots, at 5865 South Rambla Del Orto, Malibu, Los Angeles County. (SMH-V) [POSTPONED]

California Coastal
Commission September 1997 Meeting Agenda

...lot line adjustments to 8 contiguous lots over 27.81 acres, with no grading, changes to septic system or creation of new lots, at 5865 South Rambla Del Orto, Malibu, Los Angeles County. (SMH-V) [POSTPONED]

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Date: Fri, Jul 21, 2000 at 09:37:22 (GMT)
From: JtF
Email: None
To: G
Subject: Do Rawat's neighbors know his line of work?(nt)
Message:
asdf
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Date: Thurs, Jul 20, 2000 at 17:01:21 (GMT)
From: buzz
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: techniques
Message:
did you know the holy name technique was never properly shown in the west.probably didnt want to put people off with talk of kundalini etc.took k in 72 but only started getting off on it when was shown the correct way.
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Date: Fri, Jul 21, 2000 at 03:03:12 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: buzz
Subject: Oh wow. Bring back the magic! (nt)
Message:
jjjjjj
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Date: Thurs, Jul 20, 2000 at 17:09:07 (GMT)
From: Way
Email: None
To: buzz
Subject: Re:techniques
Message:
Well, what's the correct way?
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Date: Thurs, Jul 20, 2000 at 17:12:22 (GMT)
From: buzz
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: Re:techniques
Message:
hard to put on paper needs to be shown person to person to really get it but its much nearer kriya yoga as taught by yogananda
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Date: Thurs, Jul 20, 2000 at 17:26:56 (GMT)
From: Way
Email: None
To: buzz
Subject: Re:techniques
Message:
Are you the 'shower?' If not, who is?
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Date: Thurs, Jul 20, 2000 at 22:45:13 (GMT)
From: buzz
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: Re:techniques
Message:
no.
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Date: Thurs, Jul 20, 2000 at 23:39:52 (GMT)
From: buzz
Email: None
To: buzz
Subject: Re:techniques
Message:
there are people in the west can show you the real technique rather than the watered down version,like the differance between a 12 volt battery and the mains!
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Date: Fri, Jul 21, 2000 at 02:16:49 (GMT)
From: SaLAM
Email: None
To: buzz
Subject: so are you gona reveal the secret
Message:
or do we have to go to india? If you have a reference, can you please tell us about it.
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Date: Fri, Jul 21, 2000 at 05:04:50 (GMT)
From: buzz
Email: None
To: SaLAM
Subject: so are you gona reveal the secret
Message:
lets just say the pure teaching remains at the original source of this movement so anyone connected there could show it to you
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Date: Fri, Jul 21, 2000 at 06:55:41 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: buzz
Subject: buzz, you must be a parrot, because you keep repea
Message:
ting what I said, I asked you a straight forward question, I f you have something to finish, do it, otherwise stop being mysterious and hidding behind the bush.
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Date: Fri, Jul 21, 2000 at 10:29:30 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: Call an instructor ... here it is !!!
Message:
Third Technique online

One helpful hint for some persons, is what they suggest in the Vipassanna practice: bring your attention to the feeling you get at the entrance of your nostrils, when you breath in, and when you breath out.

The basics is to relax, sit in a comfortable position, and let your attention go to your breath in general.

And go with that feeling.....

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Date: Fri, Jul 21, 2000 at 11:13:00 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Nice to see you are still around JM, you posted be
Message:
low that you needed help with scanning work done,I replied but probably you did not see it, I may be able to do it if you want, send me an e-mail with details to

salam_au@iprimus.com.au

Cheers

Salam

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Date: Fri, Jul 21, 2000 at 13:05:35 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: Great, now we have a full team !!!
Message:
and we'll need to have a seminar before we start doing
anything !!!!!

I'm going to email you .

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Date: Fri, Jul 21, 2000 at 13:15:48 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: sounds like a knowledge session to me..nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Fri, Jul 21, 2000 at 14:13:55 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: Yeah! don't you feel the grace flowing? (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Fri, Jul 21, 2000 at 07:00:00 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: Hey, Salam, maybe he is sick. He looks sick to me.
Message:
what you think? I think is called brainwashing. LOL

Buzz, are you okay?

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Date: Fri, Jul 21, 2000 at 07:24:54 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: SB
Subject: I do not know what hole he came out from, made a
Message:
statement and dissapered. Some bloody mesterious secret that he found in some bloody exclusive frigging circle that some bufhead knows about. Oh no I missed that, maybe I should go back and pranam myself to someone that is as revolting as his frigging master and ask for forgiveness, perhaps he will put things straight back again, all honky doory, gagagaga. Dump stupid idiot.
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Date: Thurs, Jul 20, 2000 at 16:37:32 (GMT)
From: Michael
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Premie Bible-thumpers
Message:
I am very interested in understanding the Premie obsession with the Hebrew and Christian scriptures (which I will refer to as the Bible for the rest of this post). Deputy Dog, SHP, and now Shroomananda all like to quote scripture like Bible-thumping Fundamentalists in their endeavor to explain the True Path to us back-sliders, but most of them haven’t even read a Bible since their days in Sunday School. Since most people barely have a working knowledge of the Bible, they (our PWK-pals) are free to misquote to their hearts content with out much challenge, although they tend to be extremely annoyed when someone who has actually studied these texts challenges them. Then the challenger is told that he misunderstands the texts since he studies them and didn’t ‘experience’ them.

I am also baffled by the idea that quoting the Bible will do any good here at ex-premie.org; these texts are totally irrelevant to the discussion of M, unless the quoter really DOES think that M is God Incarnate, Jesus re-incarnated, and all the claims made concerning the second person of the Trinity by Christianity. But to make such a claim goes against the dogma now being set forth by M and his toadies at Elan Vital. The great majority of posters (and readers) here seem to reject the claims of divinity concerning Jesus, let alone M’s divinity, so how can quoting this stuff do any good here? It really is a wonder!

Our new visitor, the oddly-named Shroomananda, seems to have been surprised when a Christian refused his attempt to introduce him to M and his wonderful Knowledge (I guess he wanted to “bring him to Maharaji” as much as the Christian wanted to bring Shroo “to Christ.”). I quote his post from Monday, July 17, 2000: “Several months ago, I gave a video to a Christian that I saw everyday at the YMCA when I worked out in the morning. He watched the video and kept trying to convert me to Christianity which I wasn't responding to... if he had really wanted to know that essence within that Knowledge showed me, he would have become an aspirant and eventually receive Knowledge.” He seems to be blind to the similarities between his own evangelizing and that of his Christian acquaintance.

I guess what really amazes me is that ANYONE comes here trying to convert, whether they be Premie, Christian, Atheist, or New Age Carrot Worshiper. I think that if someone is really aware and able to comprehend what they read here, they would realize that such actions are futile. What annoys me the most is the arrogance of anyone who comes here sure that they have the answer and that by quoting the Bible (both Premies and Christians) we will see the light, especially since most of them can’t even keep up their end of the argument.

I personally am all in favor of making this a “scripture-free zone.”

Here Endeth the Rant.

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Date: Sat, Jul 22, 2000 at 19:41:48 (GMT)
From: shp
Email: None
To: Michael
Subject: to the ex-Premie Bible-thumpers thumper
Message:
Michael,

First of all, please accept my apologies for not keeping up with the correspondence via e-mail that we started. It was rude of me to just stop. No excuses. I felt like you were writing all this very detailed stuff about your studies. activities and life in Central America and I was busy making ends meet and all the other householder things. I should have written you and said I don't feel it to keep corresponding. Really Michael, very sorry for that. Not my usual style.

Second, I have to agree wtih you about making biblical references to this group of folks en masse, a large number of which have little or no interest or trust in the scriptures. Looking back, I see how inappropriate it was in my particular case to bring up such references to the group at large.

So you can take me off you list of Bible thumpers, or let my subscription just expire. Peace.

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Date: Mon, Jul 24, 2000 at 04:06:56 (GMT)
From: Michael
Email: None
To: shp
Subject: to the ex-Premie Bible-thumpers thumper
Message:
So, are you going to start up your end of the conversation? I'm still waiting. I, too, am trying to make ends meet.
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Date: Thurs, Jul 20, 2000 at 17:10:26 (GMT)
From: VP
Email: None
To: Michael
Subject: Premie Bible-thumpers
Message:
If I could find the link to your pages on this subject, (how Maharaji and premies mis-use the quotes from scripture) I would post that here. It would be interesting reading for Shoo and others.
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Date: Thurs, Jul 20, 2000 at 17:38:03 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: VP
Subject: Hey, it's all here on the EV-DLM Papers!!!
Message:
It's all there !!

Some comments on the quotes used by Maharaji to validate his 'Knowledge'

The following comments are from Michael Dresbach, who is an Episcopal priest as well as being an ex-premie.

I have been bothered by the use of scripture by people to defend terrible positions and have never liked the use of scripture by Divine Light Mission in the Knowledge session. The following is my passage by passage refutation of the scriptures used by the Mahatamas. Some passages are my own translation from the Greek, and others are from New Revised Standard Version. The passages used by the Mahatamas are from the King James Version, which is not the translation to use if one is trying to get a clear understanding of the text, since Elizabethean English is pretty much the province of scholars, actors, and folks at the Renaissance Fair ......

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Date: Thurs, Jul 20, 2000 at 17:40:28 (GMT)
From: VP
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Thanks, JM
Message:
I thought it might be there, but couldn't find it!
Thanks for posting it for everyone :)

Well, how about it, Shroo? You can't post here, but I know you can read.

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Date: Thurs, Jul 20, 2000 at 16:25:57 (GMT)
From: Mel Bourne
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Revisionism and Jim's nostalgia
Message:
Hi all

I was reading Jim’s and Shroomananda’s dialogue below and didn’t want to interrupt because I wanted to see how it would turn out. However, I would like to offer a comment on “revisionism” as a ”guest” on this obviously publicly aimed Forum.

I don’t think that anyone who knows or has been associated with Maharaji over the past 20 or so years will disagree that the way he has presented himself and Knowledge has radically changed, and that Maharaji himself has catalysed these changes. As Shroomanand pointed out, this change has been essential so that Maharaji can promote Knowledge in a way that is culturally acceptable in the “west. There is no denying that Maharaji was originally presented as the “saviour” with the associated “Guru is greater than God” Rhadasoami spiritual baggage and that this had a huge appeal for a lot of us at that time. Whether Mahahraji believed this stuff himself is something that we will probably never know, but I think that the changes clearly indicate that he doesn’t believe this now, although some of the older premies still might believe it. The unfortunate thing is, of course, that people have been hurt during this process of change as is clearly evidenced on this site, but it is my view that these days things are far more open and direct and certainly pose less risk to peoples’ emotional well being than they did in the fanatical Divine Light/ashram/”total surrender” days. So I see this so called 'revisionism' as a positive occurence and refute the negativity the term implies.

Talking about the old days, Jim made a comment recently about how “honest” things used to be giving a distinct impression that he has a certain nostalgia for his former Divine Light “cult” involvement (the good old days?). This seems to contradict with his well professed anti-cult sentiments. He generally contemptuously dismisses anyone who doesn’t agree with these sentiments as being “dishonest” and implies that a person’s cherished and personal experience should be subordinate to his (Jim’s) “logic” and linguistic trickery on the matter.

But some questions need answering....Jim

How can one be honest and deluded at the same time?

Are you now becoming “dishonest” or simply acknowledging that you do have some happy memories and experiences from that time which you now now miss? Maybe you're becoming some sort of “revisionist” too.

Is this the basis for your rather paranoid advocacy that people who have the audacity to “dishonestly” contradict your (and other ex’s) opinions relating to Maharaji and Knowledge should be banned from expressing their views on this site? Or have you finally realised that your powers of persuasion are not as formidable as you thought they were (something most of us have been aware of for some years now !).

Anyway, if the “ex” agree with Jim, and his idea of banning premies is adopted, so much for the much professed “ex” ideal of free speech and any civilised notion of mutual respect involving the ability to “agree to disagree”.

Nostalgic regards

Mel

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Date: Fri, Jul 21, 2000 at 00:58:26 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Mel Bourne
Subject: Mel, Mel, Mel ... what are we going to do with u?
Message:
But some questions need answering....Jim

How can one be honest and deluded at the same time?

By being honestly deluded, that's how. Really, what kind of stupid question is that?

Are you now becoming “dishonest” or simply acknowledging that you do have some happy memories and experiences from that time which you now now miss? Maybe you're becoming some sort of “revisionist” too.

I've always said I had some good times in the cult. Lots. Lots of laughs, lots of good, simple near-beer Miller-time moments. Mind you, some of my clients in jail have good times once in a while too. Doesn't mean that I don't resent the fact that I was virtually warehoused by my then-Lord as he prepared his then-plan to save the world and all that. I DO resent it. Again, lots.

Do I miss those times? You've got to be kidding! Sure, I miss being younger. But you know what I really miss, Mel? I miss the lost opportunities I could have explored. Like getting laid, for starters. Eight fucking years, Mel. That's 832 Friday and Saturday nights. Not to mention long weekends. You figure it out. 832 happy hours. 832 closing times.

Instead, I lined up with my fellow cult members and swung an arti tray to a guy who now has the audacity to blame ME for perpetuating those hoary, ridiculous Hindu customs and beliefs. What kind of person is that, Mel?

And what else do I miss? I miss seeing how Jim Heller would have developed in his twenties were it not for his cult-fostered belief that he wasn't really Jim Heller. Think about it.

I left the ashram for a few months after Hans Jayanti, Toronto, '74. My mother offered to help me out for year, support me, so to speak, so I could really take a shot at making it music-wise. (I guess she was just so anxious to lure me back into the world. Obviously.) But, know what? Much as I would ahve loved to take her up on her offer, I declined. Why? Because Maharaji's entire message was all about NOT doing anything of the sort. And, stupid me, I was still listening. You have to stop listening to the guy, Mel. That's the secret of life. Stop listening to Maharaji.

Is this the basis for your rather paranoid advocacy that people who have the audacity to “dishonestly” contradict your (and other ex’s) opinions relating to Maharaji and Knowledge should be banned from expressing their views on this site? Or have you finally realised that your powers of persuasion are not as formidable as you thought they were (something most of us have been aware of for some years now !).

What's wrong, Mel? Can't you read? I accused Shroom of abdicating reason in his posts. He claimed to be willing to subject his beliefs, including his interpretations of words and phrases, to some outside scrutiny. But as soon as I showed him exactly what I was going to shop around as an example of what I claimed was his absurdity, he started babbling. I took that as a sign of insincerity and insincere people, as far as I'm concerned, are, by definition almost, a waste of time.

Anyway, if the “ex” agree with Jim, and his idea of banning premies is adopted, so much for the much professed “ex” ideal of free speech and any civilised notion of mutual respect involving the ability to “agree to disagree”.

You're stupid. How's that for free sppech? You're a fool who's continued to demonstrate the paucity of cult thinking ever since you started posting here. No one but your fellow cult members would ever see any merit in your beliefs. In contrast, Mel, I believe I could turn to any reasonable person (i.e. not a new-ager or religious nut) and receive full support.

I have no respect for you and ever said otherwise. I think you're a worm and always have. The only reason it's worthwhile talking to you is that, as you've heard before, you're like a cautionary tale. You know: This is your mind. And this is your mind on Knowledge, kind of thing.

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Date: Fri, Jul 21, 2000 at 02:04:18 (GMT)
From: Shroomananda
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Some of your clients in jail... Are you a defense
Message:
attorney, Jim? If so, would you accept Maharaji as a client should he ever be brought up on charges? I'm sure he could afford your fees! Do you ever counsel your clients to lie or to withhold the truth if the truth would incriminate them? Just asking.
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Date: Fri, Jul 21, 2000 at 02:19:36 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Shroomananda
Subject: Have you posted here under another name?
Message:
I heard you were banned today. The impression I got was that you'd posted here before under another name. What's wrong? Aren't you proud of your 'clarity'?
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Date: Fri, Jul 21, 2000 at 03:17:19 (GMT)
From: Shroomananda
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Yes, Jim. I also have posted under my real name
Message:
but I decided to use Shroomananda because that's the name that the person who brought me to Knowledge named me after my Knowledge session. I posted under Current and Future Premie before. Is it against the rules to post under another name? If so, I apologize. Listen, if you want to email me, the forum administrator has my email address, so I'm not hiding from anyone. You always seem to answer a question with another question but I suppose that's what lawyers do. Since truth seems to be so important to you regarding Maharaji's claims, I'll ask you again, have you ever defended or represented someone in a court of law who you knew was lying or that you told to conceal pertinent facts? If so, what makes you the righteous voice of truth here?
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Date: Fri, Jul 21, 2000 at 06:10:37 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Shroomananda
Subject: Is that the ONLY other name?
Message:
I'm no more the 'righteous voice of truth here' than anyone. You, too, could speak the truth if you chose to. Meanwhile, no, I don't suborn perjury if that's what you're asking. And what do you do for a living? Should we talk about that? Who the fuck are you anyway?
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Date: Fri, Jul 21, 2000 at 07:08:58 (GMT)
From: Shroomananda
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: I'm a human being trying to have a civilized
Message:
discussion with those who are accusing my teacher of various improprieties. I'm not his defender. I'm just trying to point out some inconsistencies in your viewpoint. And I'm a student, if that means anything to what we're discussing here. So you've never suborned perjury. Congratulations, not too many attorneys can say that truthfully. But you have told a lie in your life, have you not? I'm just trying to point out that if you are going to accuse Maharaji of lying, you have to realize that it doesn't hold a lot of water, to me, if you've lied too. If you've never told a lie then that's another matter, but if you have, then its kind of like the kettle calling the pot black, if you get my drift. I may have used another name at one time or another, but I didn't realize it was a crime to do so. I'll stick with Shroomananda from now on. As far as who the FUCK am I? I haven't figured that out yet but if pressed for an answer, I'd have to say that I am aspiring to be a pure and perfect being or love and light. Who are you?
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Date: Fri, Jul 21, 2000 at 15:46:27 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Shroomananda
Subject: You represent the nadir of civility, Shroom
Message:
What could be less civilized than partaking in an infantile cargo cult that's afraid of its own shadow?

Look, let's be clear. I have lied in my life, oh yes, I have. In the name of Jesus, I AM a sinner. But guess what? I've never told people I was God. I've never told people to surrender the reigns of their lives to me. I've never told people to give me their everything and I've never solicited, let alone received donations.

Would you care to to estimate how much money Maharaji's gotten personally over the last twenty-five years? How many millions of dollars? How many further millions of dollars worth of assets and services?

No, Shroom, no one ever wrote my 'authorized biography' entitled 'Who is Jim Heller?, the back cover of which boasting that I was the 'greatest incarnation of God to ever trod the planet' That just didn't happen. You know?

But what's with you? First you say that you posted under a different name, 'Confused and Fucked-up Premie'. Then, when pressed, you admit that that isn't the only fake name you've used. So you really are a liar, aren't you? And you really are ashamed of your own words here, aren't you? And the FA's are really going to find all your ISP's and kick you the fucking hell out of here, aren't they? And you really deserve that, don't you?

You fucking worm!

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Date: Sat, Jul 22, 2000 at 07:18:09 (GMT)
From: Shroomananda
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Nadir of Civility, Jim? I like it. It has a nice
Message:
ring to it. I bet your're a pistol in court. 'Your honor, my unworthy opponent is a f___king worm!' All those years you wasted and you could have been making big bucks defending the downtrodden. What a pity. Instead you got satsang, service and meditation up the ying-yang and what do you have to show for it? You poor soul you!

Let me ask you, Jim. During all those wasted years, you knew, deep down, that Maharaji was a liar, didn't you? I mean he said he was the Lord of the Universe on one hand but he also said he wasn't, right? Just a humble servant of God. So you knew he was lying, didn't you? Didn't it bother you, Jim? Supporting a liar? Yet you spent years following this 'liar'. Of course, then he was the Supreme One in person so I guess it didn't matter. The Lord can do whatever the heck he wants after all, right? He's the Lord. No rules for him. He makes the rules.

So you followed the 'liar'. You gave him money. You did satsang, service and meditation. And even Darshan. How many times did you kiss the 'liar's' feet? You worshiped the 'liar'. It didn't matter then. You were going to help the Lord establish peace on earth. Lions and sheep and tarantulas and snakes all living together in harmony. One big happy family, right? The fact that Maharaji had to tell a few lies to get there didn't bother you then,did it? At least there would be no guns or bombs. Just flowers and love and happy, smiling premies. You were helping pave the way for the Golden Road to Unlimited Devotion. All made possible by the Grace of the Lord of the Universe AKA just a humble servant of God.

Now it's your mission in life to warn all your gullible and helpless brothers and sisters about this 'liar' who pretended to be the Lord and took all your hard-earned cash and wasted your time with his 'phony' Knowledge. It wasn't so 'phony' back then, though, was it? Good enough for you to spend years following the 'liar' and practice his 'phony' Knowledge. I won't call you a name, Jim. Just a simple observation. You may have been small-minded. And two-faced. Or maybe simple-minded and faced. I don't know.

I don't think you're really mad at Him, Jim. You're just mad at yourself. I think psychologists call it 'projection'. Maharaji refers to it as a mirror. It's not a con job. It wasn't then and it isn't now. It's a simple feeling in your heart. It's one breath pulsing through you. It's the source of your existence. Thank God that he keeps the door open. Go out. Come in. Just like your breath. It's up to you. Take good care of your self, 'ex' premiji. You deserve it.

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Date: Sat, Jul 22, 2000 at 18:08:19 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Shroomananda
Subject: Literally, how dumb can you pretend to be?
Message:
Let me ask you, Jim. During all those wasted years, you knew, deep down, that Maharaji was a liar, didn't you? I mean he said he was the Lord of the Universe on one hand but he also said he wasn't, right? Just a humble servant of God. So you knew he was lying, didn't you?

What a fool you're playing! When Maharaji said he was God, I believed him. We all did. When he said he wasn't, we didn't. We thought he was being coy. If you'd been there and heard how he did it, you'd understand that that was exactly the message he was giving. Furthermore, Maharaji even explained at times that he had reasons for not coming right out and saying he was God (even, though he did just that on other occasions!).

But, to answer your question, the idea that Maharaji was a liar kept knocking but I seimply wouldn't let it in. That's what faith was for.

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Date: Sat, Jul 22, 2000 at 19:30:04 (GMT)
From: Shroomananda
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: The purpose of faith is to ignore the lies? If
Message:
that's what you believe then no wonder you were deluded for so many years. What's the purpose of your faith now? Or do you have any faith?
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Date: Fri, Jul 21, 2000 at 10:47:10 (GMT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Shroomananda
Subject: I confess, I confess!
Message:
I can't take it anymore. I know you're talking ot Jim, but my own guilt has got the best of me. I.... have.... lied. I won't say what that lie is, though. Is that okay?

There, you're guru has been vindicated. It's okay that he's said he was mankind's saviour, and then denied ever having said it. Do you feel better now?

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Date: Fri, Jul 21, 2000 at 20:03:19 (GMT)
From: a friend
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Jim, it's reins, not reigns (nt)
Message:
pawdhfoa
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Date: Fri, Jul 21, 2000 at 03:31:29 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Shroomananda
Subject: Not this asshole again
Message:
Listen dickhead, EVERYONE is entitled to a defense in the US and Canada.

This is the same old tired crap you harped on before URL, or whatever your name was before, so get lost, most everyone's sick of you, you phony puke.

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Date: Fri, Jul 21, 2000 at 01:44:14 (GMT)
From: ham
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Two weeks a month premie free should do it
Message:
Having to waste so much time on 'bad faith' as you so aptly put it, and the certainty that they want us to ban them to get us off the moral high ground would be solved by this simple solution.
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Date: Thurs, Jul 20, 2000 at 23:41:53 (GMT)
From: hamzen
Email: None
To: Mel Bourne
Subject: In India he still says exactly the same shit
Message:
during the last ten years,
get real Mel,

care to explain??

The stench of 'bad faith' around premie discussion is becoming unbearable for me, but then maybe that's why you all do it, so that premies get banned or you drive exes away with the sheer unreality of the non-discussions, it's just unbelievable.

I repeat, just in the vague hope thast you might address the issue directly instead of completely skirting around it.

Why is he still saying this stuff in India and not the west, because it's true? or like premies who visit here, he speaks with forked tongue, and will package it whichever way he thinks will sell?

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Date: Thurs, Jul 20, 2000 at 19:38:54 (GMT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Mel Bourne
Subject: Revisionism and Mel playing dumb
Message:
There is no denying that Maharaji was originally presented as the “saviour” ... Whether Mahahraji believed this stuff himself is something that we will probably never know

Maharaji presented HIMSELF as the saviour. Or how else would you explain this excerpt from Who Is Guru Maharaji?

Every ear should hear that the saviour of humanity has come. There should be no chance for anyone to say that they haven't heard of Guru Maharaj Ji. Those who have come to me are already saved.

Sounds to me like Maharaji thought he was the saviour, Mel.

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Date: Thurs, Jul 20, 2000 at 17:29:10 (GMT)
From: VP
Email: None
To: Mel Bourne
Subject: Mel, I would appreciate an answer from you
Message:
Hi, Mel. You said,

As Shroomanand pointed out, this change has been essential so that Maharaji can promote Knowledge in a way that is culturally acceptable in the “west.

Did you happen to read my discussion with Shroo about this below?

My question was and is, if Maharaji wants to promote Knowledge, why does he go about it the way he does? Why doesn't Elan Vital have a listing for a local contact in my phone book, for example? Shroo said that he gave knowledge freely at first and look what happened--people fell away.

Shroo said that now Maharaji is more picky about giving it to people with whom Knowledge would 'stick' Doesn't that whole line of reasoning sound weird to you? He wants to promote it, but you have to be the 'right sort' of person to receive it...what ever happened to the idea that Knowledge is within each of us and we can all access and enjoy it? I don't think that promise has changed since the 70's, has it?

Thank you for being honest about the fact that Maharaji did make big changes. I also appreciate you admitting that some people were hurt by those changes and that you think that is unfortunate. You are the first premie I recall who has said that openly on this forum.

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Date: Thurs, Jul 20, 2000 at 17:21:01 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Mel Bourne
Subject: Revisionism and Jim's nostalgia
Message:
Mel, I really think you are the one who is deluded. It's the only explanation I can come up with. You engage in the same thing Elan Vital does -- you reframe the question, obscure responsibility, or just change the subject when things get confronting. For example, you say:

There is no denying that Maharaji was originally presented as the “saviour” with the associated “Guru is greater than God” Rhadasoami spiritual baggage and that this had a huge appeal for a lot of us at that time.

Your nifty use of the passive voice makes it appear that nobody is responsible for presenting Maharaji as 'god', it just sort of 'happened.' It's very clear that Maharaji presented HIMSELF as God, as the Superior Power in Person, at least for the first 12 years in the West, until at least 1983 when I left the cult, and maybe beyond that. Maharaji, personally, is responsible for that, and he has NEVER accepted any responsibility whatsoever. You admit that his doing that hurt a lot of people. He hasn't accepted responsiblity for that, either, and hence, this will dog him for the rest of his life. There are just too many ex-premies out there who aren't going to shut up about it. I sometimes get the feeling that you are interested in social justice, Mel. So, maybe you can get a little feeling for the impulse to seek accountability that comes from that same sense of justice, at least as far as I am concerned.

Whether Mahahraji believed this stuff himself is something that we will probably never know, but I think that the changes clearly indicate that he doesn’t believe this now, although some of the older premies still might believe it.

Whether he believed it or not, he played it to the hilt. But you also don't know whether anything he does reflects anything he believes or doesn't believe. He may believe he is god but social conditions don't allow him, anymore, to say that out loud. The fact that he had the premies line up and kiss his feet in your own country as late as 1997 indicates that he still thinks he is worthy of worship. Whether that's worship because he is a god, or just some kind of other savior, neither you nor I know.

The unfortunate thing is, of course, that people have been hurt during this process of change as is clearly evidenced on this site,

Well, yes, this is obvious, but again, you pull a Richard Nixon and resort to the passive voice. 'People have been hurt.' Kind of like 'crimes were committed.' Who caused the hurt, Mel? Was it just an 'unfortunate thing' like an earthquake, or a windstorm, or did Maharaji acutally cause, contribute to, and refrain from taking responsibility for, the hurt? Who else but Maharaji was claiming to be the Lord of the Universe and telling us we would go to hell if we didn't devote our lives to him (when he was 22 years old, and not 8 (see Christmas, 1979 satsang as quoted by Pauline Premie, below.)) Did him saying those things contribute to people trying to devote their lives to him, causing the 'hurt' you acknowledge? Of course it did. Has Maharaji ever admitted that? Of course he hasn't.

but it is my view that these days things are far more open and direct and certainly pose less risk to peoples’ emotional well being than they did in the fanatical Divine Light/ashram/”total surrender” days. So I see this so called 'revisionism' as a positive occurence and refute the negativity the term implies.

Maybe things are less damaging now because there aren't ashrams, but others disagree with that. But your logic is really faulty, or you don't understand what 'revisionism' means. I think you mean that the 'changes' of getting rid of the ashrams, and toning down the rhetoric might be beneficial. But 'revisionism' means 'revising the past.' It means lying about what happened in the past, which is what Maharaji and Elan Vital are currently doing. That is something else entirely from making changes.

How can one be honest and deluded at the same time?

Interesting question, but irrelevent. If Maharaji believed he was god and presented himself that way, he might not be dishonest. But he is dishonest at whatever point he realized he wasn't god, when he didn't admit his earlier actions were deluded. Has Maharaji ever mentioned that he was 'deluded' Mel? So, he was either deluded, or he was dishonest, or he's god. Isn't it the case that he is currently being dishonest about all three, whichever is the case?

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Date: Thurs, Jul 20, 2000 at 23:13:14 (GMT)
From: Lotus Eater
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Joe dear, Great Post
Message:
I do question how easy it will be for people trying to deprogram themselves out of the knowledge lite period. As Way pointed out, the mechanics are exactly the same, or as premies are fond of pointing out 'the message remains essentially the same'!

I lost count of the number of times I went 'yes, i remember that, oh god, he really did say that, I remember it, that's where i got that idea from', when I was first reading this site. It really helped me start to get things straight. Premie Lites don't really have the same obvious signposts to look at.

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Date: Thurs, Jul 20, 2000 at 23:52:11 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Lotus Eater
Subject: Thanks, Lotus, and I have a question...
Message:
You may be right that those people who received knowledge after about 1990 in the West, at least, might have a harder time seeing the programming. Do you know what the relative precentgage of the currently active premies in the west are from the post-1990 period, and what percentage received knowledge in the 70s? I know the overall number of premies in the West has dwindled quite a lot from when I was involved, but I suspect that the majority of those who give money and are active are from the period when I was involved.

The few recent videos I have seen pan the audience and the majority seem to be middle-aged. I recognize faces, too. That leads me to believe that they are mostly holdovers from the 70s and that not many people have received knowledge after 1990, or if they did, they aren't going to 'events.' And, of course, any premie who was around in the 70s KNOWS about Maharaji's claims of divinity, even if they have repressed them, or, like Mel, they perform mental gymnastics to avoid blaming Maharaji for any of it.

Also, do you think that a person received knowledge in the 90s and knows nothing about Maharaji's 'surrender and devotion' period but is told about it, given quotes and testimony and the rest, do you think it would make them question what the hell they have gotten themselves into? Do you think it might change their view of Maharaji, knowing his very bizarre past?

I know TD received knowledge in 1995 and knew nothing of the Lord of the Universe period until she found this website. I know it really changed her view of the whole cult, and, of course, she is now an ex-premie. I wonder if there are others like her.

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Date: Fri, Jul 21, 2000 at 22:33:37 (GMT)
From: Lotus Eater
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: countering the cult
Message:
I do think it makes a difference to tell premie lites about the past history.

In australia, the numbers of aspirants are very small, and numbers at events have never increased from the seventies. So over time the attrition rate has been at least the same as the influx.

I would be pretty confident in saying that the majority of the money comes from older premies.

Personal observation would put it around; one young person, and one in their thirties, to ten old masochists.

Someone told me that he had worked out that it cost EV (read ten old masochists) $3,000 per new premie here in Australia. Hahahahahahaha

having had the giggle, I do want to add that I feel a direct concern for these people, and possible future marks and I am glad that I am no longer clothing the emperor.

My favourite epithet at the moment is definitely out of the sandpit and lacks sophistication or humour, but does the job (makes me smile): Fucking Toad! Perhaps I can spiff it up a bit: Amplexing Anally-retentive Amphibian of the Warty Persuasion!

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Date: Sat, Jul 22, 2000 at 04:54:52 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Lotus Eater
Subject: countering the cult
Message:
Ah yes. It all comes down to countering the cult. Maharaji says 'If you want that peace, that joy, then I can give it to you.' That's a direct, recent quote.

This is bullshit, and it's the basis of my personal squabble with maharaji. It's 'simply' more than he could ever possibly deliver. Why is he even saying it? It's an absurdity and it's coming back to bite him in the ass.

I challenge the little pimp to make this silly statement to a group of, let's say, psychologists, academicians. They'd think he's nuts. OK let's ask some religionists, say a group of rabbis. They'd think he's nuts. Can anybody find a group other than premies who WOULDN'T think he's nuts?

I love it when goober produces stupid things like his FUQs and this new video clip. It shows unequivably what an arrogant horse's ass he is.

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Date: Sat, Jul 22, 2000 at 17:46:08 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: countering the cult- and an idea to move things on
Message:
Nicely put, Gerry.

Come to think of it, why on earth can't WE present his claim ('...if you want that joy, etc.') to some learned folk and request permission to post their response here?

Any idea who we could ask?

Suggestions welcome.

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Date: Thurs, Jul 20, 2000 at 17:26:35 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Correction
Message:
Something got left out.

The last line should read.

'Revisionism means lying about the past, which is what both Maharaji and Elan Vital are currently doing. But, according to you, either Maharaji was deluded, he was lying, or he's god. Isn't it the case that he is currently dishonest about whichever is the case?

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Date: Thurs, Jul 20, 2000 at 17:04:54 (GMT)
From: Way
Email: None
To: Mel Bourne
Subject: Re:Revisionism and Jim's nostalgia
Message:
Mel,

You don't mention anything about Mr. Rawat's own statement in 1996, quoted at enjoyinglife, that:

'From the very beginning, I was telling people that I am not a messiah, or a prophet, or any of those things.'

Doesn't it trouble you at all that he is obviously lying?

The problem is that the revisionism has not gone far enough. Mr. Rawat's current teachings still encourage people to behave like the posters at ELK who regard him as the Master, the source of true love. The only real change has been the vocabulary. Mr. Rawat is still running a cult like he always has.

While we are waiting for Jim to answer your question 'How can one be honest and deluded at the same time?' How bout answering my question above? Doesn't it trouble you at all that he is obviously lying?

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Date: Thurs, Jul 20, 2000 at 18:30:44 (GMT)
From: PCH
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: by the way, Way
Message:
EV has just added a short video clip of M. on it's web site, adressing this very issue (about him being/not being God). check it out
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Date: Thurs, Jul 20, 2000 at 21:37:04 (GMT)
From: VP
Email: None
To: PCH
Subject: This, I gotta see...
Message:
Where is that link?
Thanks!
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Date: Thurs, Jul 20, 2000 at 19:03:18 (GMT)
From: Way
Email: None
To: PCH
Subject: To PCH
Message:
PCH,

Thanks for the tip. I tried to play the clip and the video portion worked great, but I didn't get any audio. The sound system on my computer is working, so I don't know what happened. I had the volume set high on both my speakers and on the clip itself.

I will try again later. I would like to know what he's saying, although I can easily imagine. Knowing him, it is probably something like this:

'Well, Folks, y'all remember when I was God in Human Form? Go ahead and scratch that. I was just deluding myself and a lot of you idiots, too. Boy, talk about gullibility. So let's all have a good laugh at ourselves and get on with our lives. And watch out for all those gurus out there. My blessings to all the pre...oops!'

Something like that.

Hey, by the way, PCH, you and I have something in common. I'm a Way and you're a Highway. Yuck, yuck.

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Date: Thurs, Jul 20, 2000 at 19:32:31 (GMT)
From: PCH
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: To PCH
Message:
actually, it's more like i am halfway (hehe).
anyways (no pun intended), he actually says (amongst other things) that in the 70's he used to say he was the messiah!
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Date: Thurs, Jul 20, 2000 at 17:00:17 (GMT)
From: P-man
Email: None
To: Mel Bourne
Subject: It's very simple, Mel...
Message:
Premies can simply chat over at the forums on elanvital.org and enjoyinglife.org and maharaji.org
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Date: Thurs, Jul 20, 2000 at 15:14:35 (GMT)
From: Way
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Question to Brits: about your Queen
Message:
There are a lot of cult elements in the British royalty system. It appears to be part of human nature to select somebody sovereign and then fawn all over them. I would assume that ex-premie English subjects are in favor of abolishing the Royals. Am I right? How do you guys feel about your Queen? Nigel, Chris, JHB, Anth, anyone?
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Date: Fri, Jul 21, 2000 at 07:56:27 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: The French know how to treat Royalty
Message:
They gave them all an appointment with Madame La Guillotine. She sorted them out to everyone's satisfaction, and the country seems much better for it.

They are a bunch of inbred social parasites.

Anth the Republican

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Date: Fri, Jul 21, 2000 at 08:27:58 (GMT)
From: JohnT
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: ... us too. Charles 1st. Those were the days.(nt)
Message:
No Text
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Date: Fri, Jul 21, 2000 at 02:56:16 (GMT)
From: hamzen
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: No, but I'd seriously reduce their income
Message:
& lifestyle, we're talking seriously rich!

They do have some function, they bring in the tourists!

Bizarrely they see themselves as spiritual guardians of the country and are still popular with a large % of the population even though they are completely linked with the gentry & upper classes and are really germans and greek, and had a big hand in destroying Diana, THE cult figure for the country if ever there was one, truly bizarre.

Their best function is that they are now the source of so much piss taking, and there is plenty to take the piss out of

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Date: Fri, Jul 21, 2000 at 03:26:25 (GMT)
From: Jethro
Email: None
To: hamzen
Subject: The Queen is an example od dedication
Message:
Haven't you seen how she protects the enivironment AND helps the poor by saving money on petrol by going around in a horse and carriage instead of an automobile?

and

she only gets an income of £7000000!


Now THAT is dedication!

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Date: Fri, Jul 21, 2000 at 03:17:33 (GMT)
From: Jethro
Email: None
To: hamzen
Subject: The Queen is wonderful
Message:
Haven't you seen how she protects the enivironment by going around in a horse and carriage instaed of an autoimobile?

No that is dedication

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Date: Thurs, Jul 20, 2000 at 16:17:07 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: Her Maj's a pretty nice girl ...
Message:
Her Majesty The Queen was being shown around a hospital.
As she was being given the guided tour by a senior consultant, they passed a room where, through the window, they could see a man masturbating wildly.
Of course, the Queen was not at all amused and demanded an explanation as to why these activities were allowed in the hospital.

'Ah,' said the Doctor. 'Now although it is perhaps unfortunate that you should have witnessed that, in fact, that poor patient is suffering from a very debilitating condition. He produces so much sperm that unless he gets rid of it 4 times a day, his testicles will explode.'

'Oh,' said Her Majesty. 'Well, in that case, I suppose I can understand.'

A little further down the corridor they passed another room. The door was open, and through it, you could see a nurse who was clearly giving a patient a blow job.

'Goodness gracious!' shrieked Her Majesty. 'I demand an explanation for such sordid goings-on!'

'Ah,' said the Doctor. 'Same problem, better
health plan.'

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Date: Fri, Jul 21, 2000 at 15:59:08 (GMT)
From: John ,Paul , George and R
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: But she doesn't have a lot to say!
Message:
stghgrt
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Date: Thurs, Jul 20, 2000 at 19:40:29 (GMT)
From: Tonette
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: good one! nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Thurs, Jul 20, 2000 at 18:56:50 (GMT)
From: Her Majesty
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: WE are not amused.....nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Fri, Jul 21, 2000 at 14:43:27 (GMT)
From: Way
Email: None
To: Her Majesty
Subject: Thanks
Message:
Thanks.

I've heard the country is split approximately 50% regarding the Royals.

I saw on television recently some Englishman saying 'She's our Queen' with a great deal of obvious pride. I suppose she is a symbol of that man's ideals and sence of personal identity. It's very like gurus and their followers.

I do hope the human race is evolving away from cult mentality. It seems to be happening, slowly, despite the plethora of masters and followers. Maybe not. I've heard that the youngest British generation, of Prince William's age, are much less keen on the Royals than the older generations. William himself had the option of being addressed as 'Your Royal Highness' when he turned 18 recently, but he put it off, until he gets in a little travel and art history school. Bloody decent of the fellow, I say!

Now, on to another topic: Britney Spears! Is she adorable or what? When people tell her that they worship the ground she walks on, she smiles and says: 'Isn't that sweet!'

What is it that a premie says on ELK? - something like 'the fascinating game of follow the leader continues to this day.' God save us!

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Date: Fri, Jul 21, 2000 at 20:27:14 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: Check out this little lot too, Way:
Message:
Check out this little lot, Way:

http://www.royal.gov.uk/faq/honour.htm

Y'know, back in Victorian times, the wealthier members of society actually put some of their wealth BACK into the community. They actually built hospitals, schools, etc. (OK, they had them named after them as well).

Nowadays, Her Maj Queen Eliz. the 2 is happy enough to cut the ribbon at the opening ceremonies, and to see hospitals etc. named after her, BUT has she EVER contributed financially to any hospital? If she has, she keeps pretty quiet about it. But then, as the old song goes, she's a pretty nice girl, but ...

at least she pays her taxes.


Those assembled will now stand.

God save our gracious Queen, Long live our noble Queen, God save the Queen! Send her victorious, Happy and glorious, Long to reign over us, God save the Queen!

O lord God arise, Scatter our enemies, And make them fall! Confound their knavish tricks, Confuse their politics, On you our hopes we fix, God save the Queen!

Not in this land alone, But be God's mercies known, From shore to shore! Lord make the nations see, That men should brothers be, And form one family, The wide world ov'er

From every latent foe, From the assassins blow, God save the Queen! O'er her thine arm extend, For Britain's sake defend, Our mother, prince, and friend, God save the Queen!

Thy choicest gifts in store, On her be pleased to pour, Long may she reign! May she defend our laws, And ever give us cause, To sing with heart and voice, God save the Queen!

This was once part of the anthem too:

God grant that Marshall Wade,
May by thy mighty aid,
Victory bring,
May he sedition hush,
And like a torrent rush,
Rebellious Scots to Crush,
God save the King.

'Rebellious Scots'???

- tell it to the Duke of Edinburgh.

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Date: Fri, Jul 21, 2000 at 20:34:57 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: strange, that didn't seem to work. Take 2:
Message:
Check out this little lot, Way:

http://www.royal.gov.uk/faq/honour.htm

Y'know, back in Victorian times, the wealthier members of society actually put some of
their wealth BACK into the community. They actually built hospitals, schools, etc. (OK,
they had them named after them as well).

Nowadays, Her Maj Queen Eliz. the 2 is happy enough to cut the ribbon at the opening
ceremonies, and to see hospitals etc. named after her, BUT has she EVER contributed
financially to any hospital? If she has, she keeps pretty quiet about it. But then, as the old
song goes, she's a pretty nice girl, but ...

at least she pays her taxes.

Those assembled will now stand.

God save our gracious Queen, Long live our noble Queen, God save the Queen! Send her
victorious, Happy and glorious, Long to reign over us, God save the Queen!

O lord God arise, Scatter our enemies, And make them fall! Confound their knavish tricks,
Confuse their politics, On you our hopes we fix, God save the Queen!

Not in this land alone, But be God's mercies known, From shore to shore! Lord make the
nations see, That men should brothers be, And form one family, The wide world ov'er

From every latent foe, From the assassins blow, God save the Queen! O'er her thine arm
extend, For Britain's sake defend, Our mother, prince, and friend, God save the Queen!

Thy choicest gifts in store, On her be pleased to pour, Long may she reign! May she
defend our laws, And ever give us cause, To sing with heart and voice, God save the
Queen!

This was once part of the anthem too:

God grant that Marshall Wade,
May by thy mighty aid,
Victory bring,
May he sedition hush,
And like a torrent rush,
Rebellious Scots to Crush,
God save the King.

'Rebellious Scots'???

- tell it to the Duke of Edinburgh.

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Date: Thurs, Jul 20, 2000 at 14:59:20 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: This perfect master makes money selling cook books
Message:
fashon, jewelery, and general wallet shaffting, check the site at

get shaffted here


Do not be fooled, it's a she, standard shabd yoga, what Lardy is.

Salam

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Date: Thurs, Jul 20, 2000 at 21:00:35 (GMT)
From: jondon
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: This perfect master makes money selling cook books
Message:
This broad has got a good gig going. But I'll still take Martha Stewart over her as my Home and Garden Guru. She can mow my lawn anytime.
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Date: Thurs, Jul 20, 2000 at 11:33:03 (GMT)
From: Zelda
Email: None
To: Rob
Subject: To Rob: Candle still burning-
Message:
hole in window sill. It will be out while I go pick up another one at 7/11.
10 4
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Date: Thurs, Jul 20, 2000 at 15:10:16 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Zelda
Subject: to Zelda - why does Gerry
Message:
think you are Cynthia? I knew that thread would go inactive before it was answered.
It caught my eye because she gave me so much shit. and surprised me because you never have bothered me.
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Date: Thurs, Jul 20, 2000 at 18:24:18 (GMT)
From: Zelda
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: to Zelda - why does Gerry
Message:
I forgot about that- I dont know either. Somewhere, someplace I must have twinkled somewhat along the lines of Cynthia as far as he was concerned.
Having no reccolection of Cynthia or if she comes close to measuring up to my obnoxciousness- I dunno.
And if Gerry is Gerry he knows me pretty well as Zelda.

I may have missed something because for 3/4 weeks I was not able to get into the forum- thought I was blocked.

wonder how one spells obnoxious- kids took the dictionary.

Zelda

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Date: Fri, Jul 21, 2000 at 03:36:01 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Zelda
Subject: fogettaboutit (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Fri, Jul 21, 2000 at 04:55:21 (GMT)
From: Zelda
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: gerry- whut? :))) nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Fri, Jul 21, 2000 at 23:48:38 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Zelda
Subject: gerry- whut? :))) nt
Message:
OK, sorry didn't want to prolong this, I know you're not Cynthia, I was being sarcastic. Perhaps I'm too literal and need to read between the lines more. Or perhaps I read to much into things. One or the other or both or perhaps I should just go swimming. It's hot as hell here today. Must be 80. Not me, the weather;-}
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Date: Sat, Jul 22, 2000 at 03:30:20 (GMT)
From: Zelda
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: I too was being some dictionary word....
Message:
but am too tired to think of what it was.
what I meant by 'whut' was fugggeddaboudit.
;)
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Date: Thurs, Jul 20, 2000 at 08:38:53 (GMT)
From: Marketing Researce Firm
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Have 'hacked' all anti-religious chats
Message:
no.
jk.
can't really do that.
but....
we have sampled different internet activities:
therefore concluding that.
hey..
if he doesn't like the dogers leaving brookaland
so be it.
;move back..your hearts the only thing that cares.
read it in the scriptures.
it's all there.
heart.
only thing that 'really' as in
matters.. so pie times the square root of light doesn't
work for me. you don't work for me. I don't work for you.
so..talk negative 'bout the heart..
and guess what....it's unconstitutional..
hoy hoy
have a nice day
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Date: Thurs, Jul 20, 2000 at 08:50:29 (GMT)
From: Jimbo
Email: None
To: Marketing Researce Firm
Subject: Have 'hacked' all anti-religious chats
Message:
I find it amazing
that with
amazing simplicity
one can actually, in reality,
communicate
as in commune
with other english speaking humans.
This is remarkable.
Now.
It is universail.
as in universe.
converse
now, I can converse.
with reason
with prudence
with knowledge of vernacular.
the difference is:
cough / cough
you say 'no problem'
I say..
it's my pleasure.
brainwashed.com
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Date: Thurs, Jul 20, 2000 at 12:39:29 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Jimbo
Subject: Brainwashed.Com, I will take that..(nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Thurs, Jul 20, 2000 at 02:20:34 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: FA: is there a hacker in this forum
Message:
that is changing links and using other poeple's name to post, the Spanish forum seem to be littered with warrning messages. Is it a consorted effort by premies to disrupt the forum?, as you can see there is a lot of private information regarding exes, specially with their e-mails open, can you please what steps are you taking to track this hacker(s).

Salam

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Date: Thurs, Jul 20, 2000 at 03:31:20 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: If so, maybe it's Zen? see below re: 'zensolo'
Message:
This guy knows some stuff about the web. He has a web site and has already demonstrated malicious behaviour. He has porn on his site, I wonder if he is involved with the emails to ex's about porn sites.
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Date: Thurs, Jul 20, 2000 at 04:08:33 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: G
Subject: If so, maybe it's Zen? see below re: 'zensolo'
Message:
Zen had a dialogue on the spanish forum with a premie talking weird like codes about changing dates on posts, I mentioned to him that I noticed it and he denied it. I think that post is still there.

Maharaji should be informed. Any volunteers? They don't even read my mail. LOL

My question is: How did Zen changed the link ON THIS FORUM??? He is a hacker, right?

Hi G!!

;)

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Date: Fri, Jul 21, 2000 at 02:40:41 (GMT)
From: hamzen
Email: None
To: SB
Subject: Maybe I should be flattered by the similar name!
Message:
What a fucking sad bunch they are
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Date: Thurs, Jul 20, 2000 at 06:22:12 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: SB
Subject: If so, maybe it's Zen? see below re: 'zensolo'
Message:
got you. He appears to be nothing more than a frustrated idiot, probably not even a premie,seeing that he has refrence to Zen on his site. As for changing the links, he is too stupid for that, all he did is change the content of the url,I think he is insignificant
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Date: Fri, Jul 21, 2000 at 03:42:18 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: So no real hacking happened? (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Sun, Jul 23, 2000 at 15:12:38 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: G
Subject: FA won't answer me either.(nt)
Message:
shhh
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Date: Thurs, Jul 20, 2000 at 03:44:47 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: G
Subject: So are we sitting ducks
Message:
for someone that can come and go anytime. This forum does not have a login password, doing so will make it an exclusive club, no different than Lardy's. It is an open forum for any one to participate, why does boofhead Zen think the entrance is through the chimmeny, I can not understand that, maybe he can tell us.

Salam

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Date: Thurs, Jul 20, 2000 at 03:43:28 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: G
Subject: and if so Salam
Message:
It's best to send any specific details in email to the FA's directly rather than post them here in public. That way they are in a better postion to help you and you don't give any potential hacker any more info.
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Date: Thurs, Jul 20, 2000 at 01:45:05 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: FA's: How about a new policy for jerks?
Message:
Okay, so now we've all done a few Shrooms. It's apparent that this is yet another insincere asshole just trying to get a rise out of us. Really, there is no way in the world that he is doing anything else. I know that's true based on what happened when I challenged him about the reasonableness factor of his posts. He first said he was game but, as soon as I pressed him at all, he bhole shri'd me and ran off laughing.

I say that it's unfair that he be allowed free reign here indefinitely. He deserves the bum's rush and we deserve freedom from such assholes. There's nothing wrong with mosquito netting if that's what it takes to enjoy your camping trip.

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Date: Thurs, Jul 20, 2000 at 17:05:41 (GMT)
From: Forum Admin
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: No new policy necessary in this case
Message:
A little detective work found there here were already adequate grounds for giving 'Shroomanda' the boot before he took on this latest alias.

He is no longer welcome on the forum - in this or any of his previous incarnations.

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Date: Fri, Jul 21, 2000 at 01:50:22 (GMT)
From: Shroomananda
Email: None
To: Forum Admin
Subject: Are you closing the door or can I still post here?
Message:
I promise to be nice. I don't insult others with profanity.
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Date: Fri, Jul 21, 2000 at 02:31:18 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Shroomananda
Subject: What other names have you used? (nt)
Message:
fffffff
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Date: Fri, Jul 21, 2000 at 00:12:30 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Forum Admin
Subject: Thanks, FA. BTW, what other aliases ? (nt)
Message:
hhhhhhhh
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Date: Thurs, Jul 20, 2000 at 02:55:57 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: 'Shrooms alike' shouldn't be allowed to stay here
Message:
freely, I agree. Since they have no interest on reasoning, but on buzzing around and stinging why put up with them? Are we mazoquists? I'm not, that is why dislike their dishonesty so much!! They have no good intentions of knowing or clarifying anything. They just want to laugh at us and feel superior. Not that they are...

Why have this kind of participants here? It's useless. If their presence here is accepted because they give 'good testimonials' about what the cult is about few days should be enough for us to know their intentions, then, we let them stay or leave. This are people that are not interested in the truth. They come to defend maharaji.

A new approach is needed for this type of people. Their participation needs to be monitored in some way. They have too much freedom to spit much of the same, with each post. People that show no interest on reasoning should be kicked out. Nobody is asking them to become exes,that is their decission to make, but the least they can do if they are going to start threads or ask questions is follow the dinamics of a forum: Communication. 'Shrooms' cannot do that. So let them take their music someplace else. Why here??

How many times they throw a question, a bunch of exes answer and they don't even bother to respond! Shrooms are a nonsense. We can be fair. Can they? No.

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Date: Thurs, Jul 20, 2000 at 02:41:51 (GMT)
From: Bubba
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: FA's: How about a new policy for jerks?
Message:
Oh I'm so disappointed. I thought you were 'coming out' and admitting what nearly everyone else worked out a long time ago. You are the cosummate JERK !!
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Date: Thurs, Jul 20, 2000 at 18:44:21 (GMT)
From: Hal
Email: None
To: Bubba
Subject: Attention world this Bubba ia a cult follower ! nt
Message:
great advertisement for Mahaha and nollidge eh?
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Date: Thurs, Jul 20, 2000 at 02:58:00 (GMT)
From: SB to bubalu
Email: None
To: Bubba
Subject: How many times have you posted here? (nt)
Message:
jerk!
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Date: Thurs, Jul 20, 2000 at 05:25:51 (GMT)
From: Bubbu
Email: Zillions you twit
To: SB to bubalu
Subject: How many times have you posted here? (nt)
Message:
I just love that ole 50's croon 'My little Spanish Harlot' I jus cruze down the road humming it to maself....Da Da da da da da da da da
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Date: Thurs, Jul 20, 2000 at 05:34:48 (GMT)
From: SBelt
Email: None
To: Bubbu
Subject: See? M drives people mad
Message:
Be careful. You show that something is not right.

Thanks for your answer bubululu. One more mark on this forum of a 'premie', a lover, a student, for posterity.

Genius! ;)

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Date: Thurs, Jul 20, 2000 at 05:56:56 (GMT)
From: Bubba
Email: None
To: SBelt
Subject: See? M drives people mad
Message:
What do you tthink this is? That is totally irrelevant Carmen!
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Date: Thurs, Jul 20, 2000 at 12:48:17 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: Bubba
Subject: Listen 'Roberto', you are listening...(nt)
Message:
at all...
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Date: Thurs, Jul 20, 2000 at 20:44:11 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: SB
Subject: methinks you are onto something here SB
Message:
good for you.
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Date: Fri, Jul 21, 2000 at 01:30:02 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: methinks you are onto something here SB
Message:
Meaning, Selene? LOL I think I know but you better tell me; I'm curious.

One called me chimp few days a go... So little to say; they try anything to get us mad.

;)

a big hug!

S

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Date: Fri, Jul 21, 2000 at 05:13:52 (GMT)
From: Felix the ...
Email: None
To: SB
Subject: A chimp? Or was it a chump?
Message:
NZ accent? Its the beautiful Latino moustache that got me thinking that way.Do all the girls have them down South of the Border.... aye curumba!
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Date: Fri, Jul 21, 2000 at 04:19:58 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: SB
Subject: I'll email you SB!
Message:
stay tuned.
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Date: Fri, Jul 21, 2000 at 07:32:46 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: I'll email you SB!
Message:
OKay. ;)

Felix is ZEN. In other post he has his email address. He has to be blocked after what he did.

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Date: Fri, Jul 21, 2000 at 09:03:45 (GMT)
From: Felix the CAT
Email: None
To: SB
Subject: I'll email you SB!
Message:
How fucking dumb are you?
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Date: Fri, Jul 21, 2000 at 10:26:49 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: sb
Subject: SB.: Felix is Catweasel (IMHO)
Message:
But he has a pretty unmistakeable style.
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Date: Thurs, Jul 20, 2000 at 07:14:39 (GMT)
From: MagicMushroom
Email: None
To: shrooms
Subject: a few shrooms? or a room with a view? RWV
Message:
chat rooms on shrooms:
exactly what is a shroom?
Some kind of Drek link?
We the jerks, un-ex's,
we, us , we ponder @ the shroom, magic mush, connotations:
For those of us non- shroomers.
What have YOU done w/ la shroom.
Look @ a leaf ?
marvelled @ it's life / veins / it's shroomiage.
May We suggest ...
the inner shroom.
Now that's a room worth respecting.
Scrooms for one and scrooms for all.
Does this have anything to do with the ...man, denying native
indians his own ? schroom / room with a view.
RWV
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Date: Thurs, Jul 20, 2000 at 01:23:36 (GMT)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Forum monitor: How does one get this position?
Message:
Have you thought about it? How do they decide who gets the service of being the forum monitor. What sort of personality would get this service? Someone with iron clad defense mechanisms, that is to be sure.
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Date: Thurs, Jul 20, 2000 at 03:25:32 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Susan
Subject: it's very hard to find anyone to do it
Message:
I think the current FA or FA's are doing great all in all.
It definitely requires a thick skin. Tech skills are the least of it.

No matter what one does there will be criticism from premies and ex's alike. eesh.

I guess one would have to be a 'controller/leader' type. ohoh
myers briggs told me I was one for the third time in 2 years at our work retreat last week.

I'm sure Jim would love to see me in the role :)

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Date: Thurs, Jul 20, 2000 at 04:06:52 (GMT)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: oh no that is not what I meant!
Message:
I meant the EV forum monitor! The persons whose serivce it is to be in the know about life among the monmots.
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Date: Thurs, Jul 20, 2000 at 04:11:00 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Susan
Subject: OH! HA yeah that would be interesting
Message:
They probably love it. You mean the one who premie who gets to monitor THIS forum?
is that what you mean? If so it's their nly chance to do anythign interesting. Like watching soaps to vicariously live life?
I'd love it if I were a premie? Or am I still off?
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Date: Thurs, Jul 20, 2000 at 04:17:44 (GMT)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: yes, people always liked service that prooved they
Message:
were the MOST devoted, and where they got a lot of gossip, so I would say it would be quite coveted.

Hi guys!!! JSCA!!!! or what to ya'll say these days?

hello, fellow PWK?

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Date: Thurs, Jul 20, 2000 at 04:22:38 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Susan
Subject: and Hi from Selene !
Message:
I'm still here. And feeling better than ever. Thanks for being so interested premies. I'm flattered.

You have the very best chance for participation. Not that there is any heirachy of couse. We know that. heh heh.

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Date: Thurs, Jul 20, 2000 at 03:04:51 (GMT)
From: barney
Email: barney@hospital.com
To: Susan
Subject: Forum monitor: How does one get this position?
Message:
The first requirement is to...

Oh, I'm sorry, but I just can't continue.

Nurse! Nurse, please! My medication, more ECT, anything!

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Date: Thurs, Jul 20, 2000 at 15:51:28 (GMT)
From: Know It All
Email: None
To: barney
Subject: barney!
Message:
Big bad barney! I love and miss you. Do they make straight jackets in the dino size?

Yours forever,
KIA

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