Forum V: Archive
Compiled: Mon, Aug 07, 2000 at 11:09:47 (GMT)
From: Jul 25, 2000 To: Aug 04, 2000 Page: 5 Of: 5


Salam -:- His Planetary Harvest -:- Wed, Jul 26, 2000 at 13:11:27 (GMT)
__ Ben Lurking -:- Why DUO failed -:- Wed, Jul 26, 2000 at 19:15:45 (GMT)
__ __ bill -:- duo aims turned into.......those three steps -:- Wed, Jul 26, 2000 at 20:16:32 (GMT)
__ __ __ Ben Lurking -:- duo aims turned into.......those three steps -:- Wed, Jul 26, 2000 at 23:44:50 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ bill -:- duo aims turned into.......those three steps -:- Thurs, Jul 27, 2000 at 03:00:05 (GMT)
__ AJW -:- 'Crimson flames fly through my mind...' -:- Wed, Jul 26, 2000 at 14:35:57 (GMT)
__ __ Sir Dave -:- Walking down the path of love -:- Thurs, Jul 27, 2000 at 10:57:30 (GMT)
__ __ __ AJW -:- Walking down the path of love -:- Thurs, Jul 27, 2000 at 12:11:40 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Joe -:- David Smith the UK Coordinator -:- Fri, Jul 28, 2000 at 18:17:30 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Eyecatcher -:- Where was Glen? -:- Thurs, Jul 27, 2000 at 16:27:47 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ AJW -:- Where was Glen? -:- Fri, Jul 28, 2000 at 08:20:17 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ EyeCatcher -:- Where was Glen? -:- Sat, Jul 29, 2000 at 06:55:59 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Jethro -:- Anth I have a confession to make -:- Fri, Jul 28, 2000 at 16:06:54 (GMT)
__ __ Lotus Eater -:- 'Crimson flames fly through my mind...' -:- Wed, Jul 26, 2000 at 22:40:59 (GMT)
__ __ Joe -:- The Divine City -:- Wed, Jul 26, 2000 at 17:36:22 (GMT)
__ __ __ AJW -:- The Divine City -:- Thurs, Jul 27, 2000 at 07:54:25 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Salam -:- The Divine City -:- Thurs, Jul 27, 2000 at 10:03:49 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ AJW -:- The Divine City -:- Thurs, Jul 27, 2000 at 10:10:02 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Salam -:- AJW, I will be back!!..nt -:- Sat, Jul 29, 2000 at 17:30:58 (GMT)
__ __ __ Salam -:- The Divine City -:- Thurs, Jul 27, 2000 at 03:54:00 (GMT)
__ __ __ Ex PAM -:- From Kindness to Greed - The Big Decision -:- Wed, Jul 26, 2000 at 19:22:43 (GMT)
__ __ Gregg -:- It's all His Lila, my friends... -:- Wed, Jul 26, 2000 at 15:41:59 (GMT)
__ __ __ Jim -:- Don't laugh, that's a major hook -:- Wed, Jul 26, 2000 at 15:50:54 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ hamzen -:- Lila,the most subtle form of abuse ever invented -:- Thurs, Jul 27, 2000 at 14:45:20 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Stonor -:- Don't laugh, that's a major hook -:- Thurs, Jul 27, 2000 at 02:32:12 (GMT)
__ __ Susan -:- World domination -:- Wed, Jul 26, 2000 at 15:24:38 (GMT)

SB -:- How many people received K last year in US? -:- Wed, Jul 26, 2000 at 12:52:06 (GMT)
__ JtF -:- I'll bet more left than came(nt) -:- Thurs, Jul 27, 2000 at 10:00:14 (GMT)
__ __ SB -:- Well, yeah, because premies came as one -:- Fri, Jul 28, 2000 at 09:56:44 (GMT)
__ Joey -:- I've got all the numbers, SB ! -:- Thurs, Jul 27, 2000 at 03:52:47 (GMT)
__ __ Nigel -:- Peace Bomb!! -:- Thurs, Jul 27, 2000 at 18:26:31 (GMT)
__ __ __ Joey -:- Money Bomb!! -:- Thurs, Jul 27, 2000 at 19:12:18 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ cq -:- Money Bomb!! -:- Thurs, Jul 27, 2000 at 19:29:03 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Joey -:- Just sent you my email, cq... -:- Thurs, Jul 27, 2000 at 19:45:09 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Joey -:- PS re: Money Bomb!! -:- Thurs, Jul 27, 2000 at 19:19:51 (GMT)
__ __ Joey -:- And here are the numbers worldwide... -:- Thurs, Jul 27, 2000 at 04:13:42 (GMT)
__ __ __ Salam -:- If you take all the Indians out [10235] -:- Thurs, Jul 27, 2000 at 05:27:55 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Jean-Michel -:- More on SmartCards -:- Thurs, Jul 27, 2000 at 09:06:16 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ sb -:- GUM is loaded....from the premies -:- Thurs, Jul 27, 2000 at 06:37:48 (GMT)
__ __ Salam -:- How is bussiness Gum?..not good mate. -:- Thurs, Jul 27, 2000 at 04:12:57 (GMT)
__ Ben Lurking -:- How many people received K last year in US? -:- Thurs, Jul 27, 2000 at 01:02:20 (GMT)
__ __ SB -:- yeah, next year it will get better.... -:- Thurs, Jul 27, 2000 at 04:44:08 (GMT)

Please, can someone put -:- up a link again to Sophies book? Thanks nt -:- Wed, Jul 26, 2000 at 12:13:43 (GMT)
__ cq -:- 'ere yer go -:- Wed, Jul 26, 2000 at 17:34:27 (GMT)
__ __ Stonor -:- 'ere yer go -:- Mon, Jul 31, 2000 at 20:39:34 (GMT)

Jean-Michel -:- SmartCard information -:- Wed, Jul 26, 2000 at 09:19:55 (GMT)
__ gerry -:- SmartCard information -:- Wed, Jul 26, 2000 at 15:02:07 (GMT)
__ __ PCH -:- the streets?ROFL -:- Wed, Jul 26, 2000 at 15:15:28 (GMT)
__ __ __ AJW -:- Look at it another way PCH -:- Thurs, Jul 27, 2000 at 08:05:26 (GMT)
__ __ __ gErRy -:- Hey, PCH is RIGHT !!! -:- Wed, Jul 26, 2000 at 23:36:06 (GMT)

Jean-Michel -:- Desperately tring to help EV out updating its FAQ -:- Tues, Jul 25, 2000 at 17:58:50 (GMT)
__ Joey -:- Desperately tring to help EV out updating its FAQ -:- Wed, Jul 26, 2000 at 03:15:18 (GMT)
__ ham -:- J-M, how often is he using this for official stuff -:- Tues, Jul 25, 2000 at 23:16:55 (GMT)
__ __ jondon -:- At what speeds can it go -:- Wed, Jul 26, 2000 at 00:48:29 (GMT)
__ __ __ hamzen -:- How many hours in the air this year? -:- Wed, Jul 26, 2000 at 03:39:07 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Malibu Mole -:- How many hours in the air this year? -:- Wed, Jul 26, 2000 at 13:36:42 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Salam -:- How many hours in the air this year? -:- Thurs, Jul 27, 2000 at 04:09:53 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Malibu Mole -:- New flight attendant -:- Thurs, Jul 27, 2000 at 14:23:01 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Joe -:- Questions... -:- Wed, Jul 26, 2000 at 18:04:15 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Malibu Mole -:- Questions... -:- Wed, Jul 26, 2000 at 19:16:39 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ bill (murray) -:- Questions... -:- Wed, Jul 26, 2000 at 20:26:06 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Elaine -:- Gwen H. -:- Wed, Jul 26, 2000 at 14:37:04 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Malibu Mole -:- Gwen H. -:- Wed, Jul 26, 2000 at 19:21:40 (GMT)

Jim -:- A small thought experiment -:- Tues, Jul 25, 2000 at 16:32:25 (GMT)
__ ham -:- A small thought experiment -:- Thurs, Jul 27, 2000 at 16:20:29 (GMT)
__ __ Jim -:- Not THE Mike Cobb? U owe me money! -:- Thurs, Jul 27, 2000 at 16:25:36 (GMT)
__ Selene -:- for what it's worth -:- Thurs, Jul 27, 2000 at 00:42:10 (GMT)
__ __ Jim -:- Thanks, Selene (nt) -:- Thurs, Jul 27, 2000 at 01:01:32 (GMT)
__ JHB -:- A small thought experiment -:- Wed, Jul 26, 2000 at 21:42:19 (GMT)
__ Joe -:- I HAVE a post on ELK. -:- Wed, Jul 26, 2000 at 17:46:01 (GMT)
__ AJW -:- A small thought experiment -:- Wed, Jul 26, 2000 at 08:12:13 (GMT)
__ __ Jim -:- Exactly, Anth -:- Wed, Jul 26, 2000 at 16:18:44 (GMT)
__ __ __ Zelda -:- JIm what you are ignoring is -:- Wed, Jul 26, 2000 at 19:29:38 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Jim -:- No, that's not fair -:- Wed, Jul 26, 2000 at 23:18:20 (GMT)
__ Katie -:- A game EV plays with recent exes who post here -:- Wed, Jul 26, 2000 at 01:31:17 (GMT)
__ __ Zelda -:- to Jim re 'not fair' -:- Thurs, Jul 27, 2000 at 11:31:46 (GMT)
__ __ __ Jim -:- to Jim re 'not fair' -:- Thurs, Jul 27, 2000 at 16:12:49 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ P-Man -:- to Jim re 'not fair' -:- Thurs, Jul 27, 2000 at 23:20:27 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- to P-man -:- Fri, Jul 28, 2000 at 00:01:02 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Zelda -:- to Jim re 'not fair' -:- Thurs, Jul 27, 2000 at 20:51:39 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- to Zelda -:- Fri, Jul 28, 2000 at 00:05:21 (GMT)
__ __ Jean-Michel -:- Who knows? Maybe it'll works? -:- Wed, Jul 26, 2000 at 07:52:50 (GMT)
__ __ Jim -:- Big fucking deal! -:- Wed, Jul 26, 2000 at 02:46:47 (GMT)
__ __ __ Nigel -:- Big fucking deal! - maybe so... -:- Wed, Jul 26, 2000 at 23:32:08 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Jim -:- Big fucking deal! - maybe not -:- Wed, Jul 26, 2000 at 23:47:51 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Joe -:- A Comment Re 'Leaving' -:- Thurs, Jul 27, 2000 at 00:10:58 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- I agree with all you say -:- Thurs, Jul 27, 2000 at 00:41:10 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ cq -:- 'the benefits of going public' -:- Thurs, Jul 27, 2000 at 19:14:19 (GMT)
__ __ __ Hal -:- Big fucking deal! -:- Wed, Jul 26, 2000 at 17:45:04 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ gerry -:- No big deal... -:- Wed, Jul 26, 2000 at 23:35:37 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Jim -:- Sorry, Hal, I completely support your hypocrisy -:- Wed, Jul 26, 2000 at 23:07:09 (GMT)
__ __ __ Katie -:- You miss my point. -:- Wed, Jul 26, 2000 at 10:24:39 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Jim -:- Yes, I guess I do -- I still don't get it, in fact -:- Wed, Jul 26, 2000 at 15:52:28 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ bill -:- You miss my point. -:- Wed, Jul 26, 2000 at 13:30:04 (GMT)
__ __ __ Oliver -:- It was much worse than that for me...... -:- Wed, Jul 26, 2000 at 07:24:25 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Jim -:- and wasn't it fun to say 'no'? -:- Wed, Jul 26, 2000 at 15:54:43 (GMT)
__ Michael -:- A small thought experiment -:- Wed, Jul 26, 2000 at 01:25:47 (GMT)
__ Katie -:- A small thought experiment -:- Wed, Jul 26, 2000 at 00:52:58 (GMT)
__ Selene -:- It did make me think -:- Wed, Jul 26, 2000 at 00:24:28 (GMT)
__ __ SB -:- What are those guidelines? (nt) -:- Wed, Jul 26, 2000 at 01:46:38 (GMT)
__ __ __ Katie -:- To SB - RePost, slightly edited -:- Wed, Jul 26, 2000 at 02:21:51 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ sb -:- To SB - RePost, slightly edited -:- Wed, Jul 26, 2000 at 11:52:11 (GMT)
__ __ Katie -:- Take care, Selene -:- Wed, Jul 26, 2000 at 01:09:56 (GMT)
__ __ __ Selene -:- I plan to take care -:- Wed, Jul 26, 2000 at 05:56:51 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ bill -:- I plan to take care -:- Wed, Jul 26, 2000 at 20:33:32 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- thanks bill don't worry I get obsessive -:- Wed, Jul 26, 2000 at 20:53:19 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Katie -:- I plan to take care -:- Wed, Jul 26, 2000 at 10:48:20 (GMT)
__ __ __ Been through this -:- Take care, Selene -:- Wed, Jul 26, 2000 at 03:06:39 (GMT)
__ ham -:- Thanks but no thanks -:- Tues, Jul 25, 2000 at 23:26:01 (GMT)
__ Ben Lurking -:- A small thought experiment -:- Tues, Jul 25, 2000 at 23:06:28 (GMT)
__ __ Zelda -:- A small thought experiment -:- Wed, Jul 26, 2000 at 03:10:24 (GMT)
__ Lotus Eater -:- Anonymity -:- Tues, Jul 25, 2000 at 22:26:47 (GMT)
__ __ Katie -:- to Lesley -:- Wed, Jul 26, 2000 at 01:19:19 (GMT)
__ __ __ Lotus eater -:- thanks Katie -:- Wed, Jul 26, 2000 at 22:49:57 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Katie -:- you're welcome, LE -:- Fri, Jul 28, 2000 at 23:12:41 (GMT)
__ Joe -:- A small thought experiment -:- Tues, Jul 25, 2000 at 21:56:16 (GMT)
__ P-man -:- A small thought experiment -:- Tues, Jul 25, 2000 at 20:26:21 (GMT)
__ __ Zelda -:- A small thought experiment - revised -:- Wed, Jul 26, 2000 at 03:20:24 (GMT)
__ Jerry -:- Good question -:- Tues, Jul 25, 2000 at 17:39:04 (GMT)

Way -:- Transcripts now available at Visions -:- Tues, Jul 25, 2000 at 14:44:10 (GMT)
__ Ben Lurking -:- Transcripts now available at Visions -:- Wed, Jul 26, 2000 at 03:56:02 (GMT)

Salam -:- Who is Guru Maharaji JI? -:- Tues, Jul 25, 2000 at 13:31:20 (GMT)
__ Sir Dave -:- Who is Guru Maharaji JI? -:- Tues, Jul 25, 2000 at 14:04:34 (GMT)
__ __ Salam -:- An the voice came to him and said -:- Tues, Jul 25, 2000 at 14:31:18 (GMT)

What is this? -:- Anybody knows these books? -:- Tues, Jul 25, 2000 at 03:58:59 (GMT)
__ la-ex -:- another book about m -:- Tues, Jul 25, 2000 at 04:59:51 (GMT)
__ Shroomananda -:- Yeah, I have Downton's book. He was a sociologist -:- Tues, Jul 25, 2000 at 04:56:39 (GMT)
__ __ Nigel -:- And what about the other papers..? -:- Tues, Jul 25, 2000 at 13:06:48 (GMT)
__ Salam -:- Anybody knows these books? -:- Tues, Jul 25, 2000 at 04:19:17 (GMT)
__ __ Jean-Michel -:- These references been lifted from EV-DLM Papers! -:- Tues, Jul 25, 2000 at 08:10:35 (GMT)

Salam -:- Appreciation.org -:- Tues, Jul 25, 2000 at 03:16:25 (GMT)
__ Lotus eater -:- Appreciation.org -:- Tues, Jul 25, 2000 at 21:58:32 (GMT)
__ __ sam -:- Appreciation.org -:- Wed, Jul 26, 2000 at 07:14:42 (GMT)
__ __ __ Lotus eater -:- i know the coordinator too -:- Wed, Jul 26, 2000 at 21:53:03 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ sam -:- i know the coordinator too -:- Fri, Jul 28, 2000 at 02:27:52 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Lotus eater -:- is Sam your real name? -:- Fri, Jul 28, 2000 at 21:56:03 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ sam -:- is Sam your real name? -:- Mon, Jul 31, 2000 at 02:52:52 (GMT)
__ __ Joe -:- Great Lotus, I'm laughing hard - can't type (nt) -:- Tues, Jul 25, 2000 at 22:11:25 (GMT)
__ G -:- Appreciation.org -:- Tues, Jul 25, 2000 at 17:35:52 (GMT)

Jim -:- Carolyn Myss is pathetic -:- Tues, Jul 25, 2000 at 03:04:44 (GMT)
__ GERRY -:- Well I discovered the cure for white man's disease -:- Tues, Jul 25, 2000 at 15:13:12 (GMT)
__ __ Stonor -:- Oh hi Gerry, so you're at the end of this universe -:- Tues, Aug 01, 2000 at 04:32:35 (GMT)
__ __ __ Stonor -:- I'm trying to figure out my posting problem in -:- Tues, Aug 01, 2000 at 04:36:02 (GMT)


Date: Wed, Jul 26, 2000 at 13:11:27 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: His Planetary Harvest
Message:
The DUO Proclamation

Whereas, the one universal belief all people hold to be true, is the belief in life itself; and yet due to ignorance of the aim of human life, the world continues to be filled with misery; and

Whereas, even with the advancements of the technologically expanding twentieth century, humanity has continually failed in all efforts to find a solution to misery and suffering; and
whereas, Knowledge of the aim of human life is being revealed to all people of the world by the living Perfect Master and spiritual head of Divine Light Mission, Paramhans Satgurudev Shri Sant Ji Maharaj, thus eliminating the cause of ignorance and misery,

Therefore, the people who have experienced the Knowledge of Shri Sant Ji Maharaj, with full awareness of the difficulties of living without knowing the aim of human life, are compelled to reach out to the rest of the struggling humanity to spread the solution to strife and suffering by a commitment to work in all fields of endeavor for the elevation of humanity, manifesting an exemplary alternative to be known as the Divine United Organization or D.U.O

Guru Maharaj Ji

[ p39 ]

Guru Maharaj Ji knew this would happen from the start. In December, 1972, and January, 1973, he designed the Divine United Organization, or DUO, as master plan for the rediscovery of humanity, an organization capable of meeting global needs with total Solutions. DUO coordinates the entire divine community, and under the guidance of Guru Maharaj Ji works through purely constructive means to remold this world as a humanistic society where people base their lives upon service rather than selfishness. For the members of DUO, work is worship. {and slavery}

How can one resist bullshit like that? If I only read the book
[ Who is Gum Mahamj Li?!!!!] more carefully.

Salam-shaffted.

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Date: Wed, Jul 26, 2000 at 19:15:45 (GMT)
From: Ben Lurking
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: Why DUO failed
Message:
How could it ever succeed, if he feed the poor nad helpe dthe world where would his piece of the action come in? Obviously he hadn't figured out that little economic tidbit yet - you can't someone you are giving something to and if he took the donationsa nd gave them away then how could he do his 'works' on the rest of us?
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Date: Wed, Jul 26, 2000 at 20:16:32 (GMT)
From: bill
Email: None
To: Ben Lurking
Subject: duo aims turned into.......those three steps
Message:
remember? he realized all we need was satsang service and med. and of course to surrender our lives to him totally.
He was the lord almighty you will recall.

no need to feed and clothe and shelter the world, let them move into the ashram and find thier lives thier. a planetary ashram dedicated to his lotus feet.

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Date: Wed, Jul 26, 2000 at 23:44:50 (GMT)
From: Ben Lurking
Email: None
To: bill
Subject: duo aims turned into.......those three steps
Message:
He closed the shrams for the same reason - he wasn't making any money on it or he wasn't making enuff. People needed to stand on their own 2 feet (read not consume donations to Mvital)
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Date: Thurs, Jul 27, 2000 at 03:00:05 (GMT)
From: bill
Email: None
To: Ben Lurking
Subject: duo aims turned into.......those three steps
Message:
dang Lurk, and I thought he closed the ashrams because of that song by Sting that came out around that time, you know, 'if you love someone set them free'.
He was big time into gordon lightfoot by the way.
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Date: Wed, Jul 26, 2000 at 14:35:57 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: 'Crimson flames fly through my mind...'
Message:
Salam Salam,

In the 70s Divine United Organisation, along with the World Welfare Organisation, was going to save the world. I remember just after it was formed, my old pal Mike Finch sitting at the Palace of Peace telling us he'd just driven past one of the biggest buildings in London with Maharaji, who pointed at the tower block and confidently prophesised that one day the skyscraper would be the head office of DUO in the UK.

I think he also said, 'In a few years, every other truck on the road will have DUO on the side. You will write with a DUO pen, and wear DUO clothes.'

It lasted about two years before being wound up. At its height, DUO consisted of a candle factory, a health food shop, and a beragon workshop. Oh yeah, Milky Cole also started importing tins of awful brown paste from India to make disgusting 'healthy' drinks with. I think it was called something like 'Charam Prash'. It looked and tasted like Buffalo turds, but was full of vitamins and cosmic vibes.

We never took over the world, but at least we all had a nice mug of buffalo turds.

DUO was one of Maharaji's many mega-projects that fizzled out, and nobody talks about any more.

Does anyone remember the plans for the 'Divine City'? What a joke that was.

Yes, back in the 70s we all believed he was going to take over the world before the new Millenium.

Anth 'Ah but I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now.'

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Date: Thurs, Jul 27, 2000 at 10:57:30 (GMT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Walking down the path of love
Message:
We used to go and visit an old people's home in Camberwell in the appropriately named, 'Love Walk'. I don't know what they thought of us as we all sat down on the floor and sang some deotional songs like 'Amazing Grace' etc. Some of them used to join in.

I met an old lady there who had seen Queen Victoria when she was a child. That was a big thing for me, being a history enthusiast. The old people were great and very appreciative of our visits. We were disappointed when Maharaji stopped this useless and wasteful activity and got us renovating an old Cinema in Camberwell into a second Palace of Peace where the Lord come come and visit us, but never did.

However, that was where I had to guard the cheese, so it wasn't all wasted time.

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Date: Thurs, Jul 27, 2000 at 12:11:40 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: Walking down the path of love
Message:
G'day milud,

What memories come flying back. It was my 'service' to find a new community centre, after the Palace of Peace was closed, when David Smith was UK national co-ordinator for a while.

I spent weeks going round London, looking at old cinemas, telling people we wanted them for a sort of 'community centre, where we'd do things like have a wholefood restaurant, give natural childbirth classes...oh yeah, and yoga classes too. Meditation, that sort of thing.'

We eventually ended up renting that dump in Camberwell.

And we thought we were going to take over the world.

Anth the clapped out cinema

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Date: Fri, Jul 28, 2000 at 18:17:30 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: David Smith the UK Coordinator
Message:
In the late 70s, the talk at IHQ in Miami was that the UK was so spaced out, that they needed to send an American, die-hard, type coordinator there to shape things up. [I am not kidding, this was how it was characterized.] Hence, David Smith, the true Nazi of the premie kingdom, was sent over there, and in his usual 'spanish-Inquisition' type manner, I think he attempted to do shape things up n your Green and Pleasant Land, which I'm sure he did his best to make as unpleasant as possible, at least for the ashram premies, who were the most vulnerable to creatures like Mr. Smith.

Anyhow, in 1980, David got sent back to the USA to begin to inflict his sadomasochistic ways on defenseless ashram premies on the other side of the pond. I remember when he arrived in Miami, where I community coordinator at the time, and David was said to be just too burned out and exhausted to do anything. We spent much of our time finding tennis partners for David, and otherwise to pamper and admire him, which he liked tremenously. I do think, however, and he felt he did not receive the adulation he deserved, given that in Miami, initiators were a dime a dozen and nobody thought David was anything special.

About a year later, David was made coordinator of the Western Region of the USA, when his true Nazi ways re-emerged. But that is another story.

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Date: Thurs, Jul 27, 2000 at 16:27:47 (GMT)
From: Eyecatcher
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Where was Glen?
Message:
Was he fired for a while when David Smith was National coordinator?

Just Curious

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Date: Fri, Jul 28, 2000 at 08:20:17 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Eyecatcher
Subject: Where was Glen?
Message:
Hi Eyecatcher,

This may have been his 'spaced out in Leigham Court Rd' period.

We had a whole string of national coordinators, Lyle someone or other, David Lovejoy, David Smith, Alan Saunders to name but all those I can remember.

Anth the Unco-ordinated.

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Date: Sat, Jul 29, 2000 at 06:55:59 (GMT)
From: EyeCatcher
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Where was Glen?
Message:
Hi Anthony,

I thought David Lovejoy was in Australia the whole time since India when M told him to spread HIS knowledge down under.

Leigham Court Road rings a great big bell - where was it?

Eyecatcher

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Date: Fri, Jul 28, 2000 at 16:06:54 (GMT)
From: Jethro
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Anth I have a confession to make
Message:
I was the coordinator who brought Glem back into service when he was living at Leigham Court Rd.
I remembergoing around to invite him to do service and I did he said 'Ahhhhh GMJ has remembered me'.

Don't tell anyone.

Jethro

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Date: Wed, Jul 26, 2000 at 22:40:59 (GMT)
From: Lotus Eater
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: 'Crimson flames fly through my mind...'
Message:
Ah, er, what about the Mother Nature haute couture? those fetching demure sacks, quite the rage, n'est ce pas?

On the subject of buffalo turds, hey, it was sweet, I actually really liked it!.....and I have some memory of a housemother complaining to me about hungry male ashramees stealing extra spoonfuls out of the fridge....oh give me a plate of dahl and potatoes, please add in the beans, don't scrimp with the sauce, I know I am only the turds of a buffalo, but please dear Lord feed me the scraps at your feet. LE

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Date: Wed, Jul 26, 2000 at 17:36:22 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: The Divine City
Message:
The Divine City idea was very much a part of what Maharaji was preaching back in the 80s. According to Elan Vital, I guess that was just some backward Hindu idea that Maharaji 'soon abandoned.'

But it was a MAJOR drawing point for me at the time I got involved as a premie, the idea that the peace and love would manifest in the form of a better world, with at least examples of people living in love and harmony. Also, I was attracted to the idea that we were going to actually feed, clothe and give medical attention to people who needed it. Maharaji dropped the humanitarian stuff by 1977, when he embarked on his crusade demanding total dedication and surrender to him. That's when he said that 'service', which was a REQUIREMENT to have the experience of knowledge, was only service to 'Guru Maharaj Ji', not service to humanity, to world peace, or anything or anyone else, including your own kids. It was a true bait and switch.

Moreover, I recall at the ashram meeting at the Kissimmee swamp in 1979, Maharaji talked about land in Florida he had selected for a 'divine city' where we all would live. With visions of Jonestown in the back of my evil mind, I was actually relieved when that didn't happen, likely because Maharaji spent all out donations on luxury yachts, expensive vactions, and 'delapidated' luxury residences. But at that late date, he was still talking about it, although it seemed more like a big ashram like they have in India with farming, etc.

Is this what he intends for Amaroo?

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Date: Thurs, Jul 27, 2000 at 07:54:25 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: The Divine City
Message:
Hi Joe,

Plans for the 'Divine City' were published in an early British 'Divine Times' around 1973/4. There was even an artists impression on the front page. (Maybe we can dig it out and publish it somewhere).

We really did believe we were going to take over the world in those days. I remember in the Education Ashram, believing that 'Unity School' was going to be the blueprint for schools all over the world, and that our Ashram Secretary would be the British Minister of Education in a few years.

The wierd thing was that everyone supported and encouraged these crazy ideas. When you immerse yourself in a cult, you really do lose touch with reality.

Anth- still waiting to be called into Government.

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Date: Thurs, Jul 27, 2000 at 10:03:49 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: The Divine City
Message:
Do have copies of it? Any chance of having it scanned and e-mailed?
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Date: Thurs, Jul 27, 2000 at 10:10:02 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: The Divine City
Message:
All my old magazines and newspapers are with a UK newspaper at the moment. I'll go through them when I get them back Salam.

Anth the scoop.

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Date: Sat, Jul 29, 2000 at 17:30:58 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: AJW, I will be back!!..nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Thurs, Jul 27, 2000 at 03:54:00 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: The Divine City
Message:
I thought Australia was a decent place to live in, but now that Gum Mahamj Li is planning to retire here, I am having secound thoughts, maybe if I go and spread some termiets there Gum will change his mind
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Date: Wed, Jul 26, 2000 at 19:22:43 (GMT)
From: Ex PAM
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: From Kindness to Greed - The Big Decision
Message:
Dear Premies,

I address this post to premies because the expremies already know this.

Don't you know that your Guru that you may have joined because of humanitarian purposes somewhere along the line became very greedy. At first we were doing humanitarian service. I was working in a mental hospital and somehow was getting 'blissed out' on the service.

Now you are chasing your tails busily getting nowhere. I know it's difficult for the jolly old pride but face the facts. They are all around you, perhaps a little covered up sometimes but like the Dali Lama says, 'Spy on Your Guru.'

Much Strength to you in your endeavors - one very long-time premie who took quite a while to learn the facts by his self and with the help of this web-site.

Ex-PAM

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Date: Wed, Jul 26, 2000 at 15:41:59 (GMT)
From: Gregg
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: It's all His Lila, my friends...
Message:
C'mon now. He's just taking a little break. A clever masquerade, this 'I am not a leader' crap. All the premies can see through it. Just a little Lila to weed out the poseurs from the truly worthy.

Now that his flock has dwindled down to almost nothing, those truly devoted PWK's (look, they're so devoted they can even go YEARS without kissing his feet!) will be the elite vanguard that can say 'I told you so' when he really does get recognized, at last, for being the Lord God in human form. Then we'll see who gets the last laugh!

See you in Hell, ex-premies!

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Date: Wed, Jul 26, 2000 at 15:50:54 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Gregg
Subject: Don't laugh, that's a major hook
Message:
Right you are, Gregg.

I'd wager that a very large percentage, perhaps even a majority, of long-time premies think just that. After all, that was part of our programming, wasn't it? Why should these last few decades be any different than the 'Holy Family' debacle? The latter was a 'test' and so is the rest. Faith will be rewarded, the more unreasonable the better.

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Date: Thurs, Jul 27, 2000 at 14:45:20 (GMT)
From: hamzen
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Lila,the most subtle form of abuse ever invented
Message:
(nt)
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Date: Thurs, Jul 27, 2000 at 02:32:12 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Don't laugh, that's a major hook
Message:
And I'm a spiritual bastard because I don't have a guru. m insulted me a long time ago.
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Date: Wed, Jul 26, 2000 at 15:24:38 (GMT)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: all
Subject: World domination
Message:
This is hysterical. I suppose if you are a 13 year old Satguru you might think these things. All the 13 year old boys I have ever known think they are going to play Major League Baseball...

but...this sounds like the Lordy read one too many comic books. It sounds like some arch Villain...the riddler, the Joker....see those buildings...someday they'
ll all be mine, the cars, the lands as far as you can see, mine mine mine.....

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Date: Wed, Jul 26, 2000 at 12:52:06 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: How many people received K last year in US?
Message:
General numbers. Does anybody knows?

In my area, close to a big capital, in the last fourteen years only 2 people received 'Konwledge'.

What about the US cities you know? How many people received knowledge?

maharaji sucks!

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Date: Thurs, Jul 27, 2000 at 10:00:14 (GMT)
From: JtF
Email: None
To: SB
Subject: I'll bet more left than came(nt)
Message:
hh
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Date: Fri, Jul 28, 2000 at 09:56:44 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: JtF
Subject: Well, yeah, because premies came as one
Message:
person and left as two or more, then, LOL, I agree with you.
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Date: Thurs, Jul 27, 2000 at 03:52:47 (GMT)
From: Joey
Email: None
To: SB
Subject: I've got all the numbers, SB !
Message:
1999 Knowledge sessions in the North America:

May 30, 1999-Miami Beach-Miami Beach Convention Centre-135 people.

June 15, 1999-Montreal-Chateau Royale-125 people.

For a total of 260 people.

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Date: Thurs, Jul 27, 2000 at 18:26:31 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: fitzroy@liverpool.ac.uk
To: Joey
Subject: Peace Bomb!!
Message:
By my reckoning that's about every millionth American citizen. Guess Phase Two is really starting to happen at last...
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Date: Thurs, Jul 27, 2000 at 19:12:18 (GMT)
From: Joey
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: Money Bomb!!
Message:
The sad part Nigel is that while m hasn't been able to advance propagation in a meaningful way in the west, his ability to raise funds in the west HAS advanced.
As I've already reported, the information I have on EV Canada's 'registered charity information return' which I've just obtained from Revenue Canada shows a definite, significant growth in EV Canada's gross annual revenue from $438,422 in 1996 to $792,000 in 1999. (And as previously noted these amounts don't include figures for monies sent directly to m or to EVF-Switzeland)
Not that I enjoy being the bearer of bad tidings, but that's just the way it is.
And given the fact that J-M has already reported accounts from one recent ex on the French forum, how there has been massive fundraising efforts in the west (ostensibly to raise money for Amaroo, although there hasn't been much happening there), as m continues to milk premies for everything that they're worth.
That being the case, I do consider the situation in Canada to be a microcosmic representation of EV's financial growth elsewhere in the west and throughout the world.
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Date: Thurs, Jul 27, 2000 at 19:29:03 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: quartus@postmaster.co.uk
To: Joey
Subject: Money Bomb!!
Message:
Joey, can you send me your email address (mine above)?

I need to share some info I received only yesterday from the UK Charity Commission.

Regards,

Chris

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Date: Thurs, Jul 27, 2000 at 19:45:09 (GMT)
From: Joey
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: Just sent you my email, cq...
Message:
...look forward to hearing from you.
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Date: Thurs, Jul 27, 2000 at 19:19:51 (GMT)
From: Joey
Email: None
To: Joey
Subject: PS re: Money Bomb!!
Message:
I haven't fully analysed these documents yet but it seems that a good chunck of these increased revenues has also come from the satellite broadcasts.
Eg. in 1999 Ev Canada received $102,351 from what they claim as 'Anonymous donations-satellite broadcast events'
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Date: Thurs, Jul 27, 2000 at 04:13:42 (GMT)
From: Joey
Email: None
To: Joey
Subject: And here are the numbers worldwide...
Message:
99-03-22-New Delhi, India -5 022
99-03-26-New Delhi, India -5 213
99-04-09-Johar Bahru, Malaysia -171
99-04-25-Kaohshiung, Taiwan -59
99-06-07-Mar del Plata, Argentina-180
99-07-12-Manchester,UK -249
99-07-19-Barcelona, Spain -280

When you add the 260 people who received k in North America, the total number worldwide during 1999 was 11,434

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Date: Thurs, Jul 27, 2000 at 05:27:55 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Joey
Subject: If you take all the Indians out [10235]
Message:
as they do not present a a good sample {statistically speaking}, you are left with [1199] in the rest of the world, out of those maybe 50%[just a guess] will not be active within a year say, that will leave about 600. If Gum belives that network marketing [like herbelife] is working for him, then he defenitly is eluded. How much support do 600 people offer to the $125,000/month that are needed for propagation. That is, if each contributes $125/year, i.e. that is approx. $6500/month, way below their target. You can see why they are asking for the smart card. At $30 they only need about 4000-4500 people to cover that cost, which most likely they will have. But then I do not know if the $125,000/m includes supporting Gum's personal finance or not
I also do not understand how the smart card works, is it $30 for each entry or is it a one year membership, and can one use it for attending satalite transmissions or that extra? maybe someone with a card can answer this
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Date: Thurs, Jul 27, 2000 at 09:06:16 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: More on SmartCards
Message:
I don't think they'll make much money with the SmartCard system.

BTW there are TWO SmartCard systems: 1 developped by EV, Inc. US to access the video broadcast system, and one SmartCard system developped by EV Intl (I don't know if that new entity has any real legal existence or not) for premies in every countries to access 'events'.

According to my sources, very few premies bought them (the intl ones), as they're not mandatory yet to enter the progams, and that nothing is really scheduled for the next months.

Plus they obviously have a cost, because it involves a chip ....

The main source of income for EV is entrance for video programs where you HAVE TO donate, preferably on a monthly basis, and the satellite broadcasts where YOU'RE STRONGLY SUGGESTED TO DONATE even though it's free. Even ASPIRANTS NOW HAVE TO PARTICIPATE after their 1st month which is free !!!!! And of course Rawat's 'events', more and more scarce ...

The $ 30 cost is paid once, to get that divine card.

Of course I forgot the huge mega intl rackets when Yoram, Raja etc tour to raise funds for so-called new 'projects' that never come to existence ....... The famous one in 99 was that mega racket for 'Amaroo', and no event took place !!

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Date: Thurs, Jul 27, 2000 at 06:37:48 (GMT)
From: sb
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: GUM is loaded....from the premies
Message:
No doubt. Thanks for the numbers.

The $30 is a one time fee. Isn't it?

All the money he receives or gets diverted is not enough, yet; he wants more and more. He squeezes premies good and the fact that they keep giving shows how deluded they are themselves. How can they justify what greedy gum does playing 'god'? Lardy wants to pretend so he can keep loading his pockets and premies are in denial having bought his lies! He needs a Gulfstream for that???

He needs to sell it and return the money to the people who paid for it. I know. It's late and I'm dreaming.

He lied at the American people on TV promising heaven, he lied to the world, he brainwashed people, and not now he wants to claim amnesia! I don't think so, it doesn't work like that in America. He is very ignorant and I've heard that he doesn't take well advice. No I don't feel sorry for him. Is like he said once: Excuses only take you so far. You can't say 'I didn't know' because the information to answer your questions was available. That goes for him too. No amnesia now Rawat!

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Date: Thurs, Jul 27, 2000 at 04:12:57 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Joey
Subject: How is bussiness Gum?..not good mate.
Message:
nt
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Date: Thurs, Jul 27, 2000 at 01:02:20 (GMT)
From: Ben Lurking
Email: None
To: SB
Subject: How many people received K last year in US?
Message:
Its not the number its the ...... go see the faq.
I think the spread is in serious retraction.
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Date: Thurs, Jul 27, 2000 at 04:44:08 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: Ben Lurking
Subject: yeah, next year it will get better....
Message:
but help 'us' with some greens please, we 'must' propagate knowledge...

The more I know from this guy the more....grrrrr....

The media is not so far interested in what he's doing. Stange world. 'God' is here and nobody cares. (?)

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Date: Wed, Jul 26, 2000 at 12:13:43 (GMT)
From: Please, can someone put
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: up a link again to Sophies book? Thanks nt
Message:
n
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Date: Wed, Jul 26, 2000 at 17:34:27 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Please, can someone put
Subject: 'ere yer go
Message:
http://www.ex-premie.org/papers/soul_rush.htm
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Date: Mon, Jul 31, 2000 at 20:39:34 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: 'ere yer go
Message:
Thanks Chris,

I've been reading it on and off - there's lots of info, and now I know that I am a 'spiritual bastard' according to m. Ever heard about this? If it's a general guru ploy, it's no wonder I get this less than pleasant vibe from devotees.

Stonor

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Date: Wed, Jul 26, 2000 at 09:19:55 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: SmartCard information
Message:
I've just received all the official and non-official documentation on the SmartCard system.

The 1st official document in French has been posted on the French forum.

It's like a credit card with a chip inside and the premie's picture on it.

They officially say that it's only going to store the holder's name and an ID number for the moment. But new options will be added as they'll be developped !!!

It's supposed to make registration easier for 'events', specially those 'for premies only'.

No queues anymore ......

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Date: Wed, Jul 26, 2000 at 15:02:07 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: SmartCard information
Message:

OK so this is how they plan on screen out potential troublemakers at programs. No mark of the beast, no entry. Well, we still have the streets. This won't solve anything for EV.

Good work on the plane, btw, JM.

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Date: Wed, Jul 26, 2000 at 15:15:28 (GMT)
From: PCH
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: the streets?ROFL
Message:
i guess the streets were all yours during the 7 events he just did in the US...did not notice your presence!
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Date: Thurs, Jul 27, 2000 at 08:05:26 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: PCH
Subject: Look at it another way PCH
Message:
Our 'presence' is measured by an absence.

The number of events, and the numbers of premies attending events, has been in accelerating decline since Ex-premie.org cried, 'The Satgurus crown is made of papier-maché,'

Slowly, slowly, the premies are noticing, 'Oh yeah, it really is.'

That great big ocean liner that was going to sail across the ocean of Maya and take us all to the land of liberation is nothing more than a leaking hulk that's never going to raise itself off the mud.

Time to step ashore and rejoin the human race PCH.

Anth sitting outside a nice cafe on the harbour, enjoying the spectacle.

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Date: Wed, Jul 26, 2000 at 23:36:06 (GMT)
From: gErRy
Email: None
To: PCH
Subject: Hey, PCH is RIGHT !!!
Message:

WHAT'S THE MATTER WITH YOU LAZY EX-PREMIES ??? WHERE ARE YOU???

ALL THESE PROGRAMS NEED TO BE PICKETED !!! JUST WAIT TIL GOOBER COMES TO SEATTLE, I'LL SHOW YOU SOME STREET ACTION !!!

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Date: Tues, Jul 25, 2000 at 17:58:50 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Desperately tring to help EV out updating its FAQ
Message:
Question: What is the Gulfstream IV ?
Answer: the jet that being exclusively used by Mr Rawat to ‘propagate the knowledge'.
Q: what’s this toy’s price ?
A: 20 to 25 million dollars, we’re still waiting for EV to give the details.
Q: what’s its operating costs ?
R: between $ 10,000 and 20,000 for each hour flight, we’re still waiting for EV to give details.
Q: who’s paying for this ?
R: the ‘Elan Vital Foundation' (=EVF), a Swiss organization that’s been created for this very purpose.
Q: who’s funding the EVF ?
A: premies from every countries (where there are active premies) send ‘donations’ every month to the EVF, and EV organizations in some of the countries, when they themselves receive 'donations' for this operation.
Q: how come such an expensive aircaft has been purchased ?
A: it’s been funded by the sale of the previous aircrafts used by the EVF (Lear 45, 55 & others), donations made by premies, loans to premies ...., loans to the seller (manufacturer) of the aircraft.
Q: how come that such an costly operation is done by a charity and non profit organization ?
A: US laws allow this.
Q: is it moral that individuals (shareholders of Prime Resources LLC) own this jet that’s been funded this way ?
A: ?
Q: who are the shareholders of Prime Resources LLC ?
A: premies close to Mr Rawat.
Q: so it seems that persons closely related to Mr Rawat take benefit of Mr Rawat’s charitable work.
A: precisely. You can though notice that Mr Rawat himself doesn’t draw any benefits from this.
Q: is it really sure ? Don’t you think that maybe some of Mr Rawat’s relatives are also shareholders of Prime Resources LLC ?
A: We’re waiting for EV to give more details on this.
Q: How come all this is not totally transparent ?
A: because it’s not ! We’ve had to make lots of investigations to have all these details !
Q: All this is really curious indeed for an organization such as EV claiming to have such charitable goals !
A: precisely .......

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Date: Wed, Jul 26, 2000 at 03:15:18 (GMT)
From: Joey
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Desperately tring to help EV out updating its FAQ
Message:
Q: who’s paying for this ?
R: the ‘Elan Vital Foundation' (=EVF), a Swiss organization that’s been created for this very purpose.

Here's another question and I'm really curious about what the answer may be.

Why is the EVF located in Switzerland, and not let's say the U.S., Canada, England, France, Germany, Spain or wherever ?

Is there any particular reason for this?

Sincerely and Respectfully submitted,

Joey

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Date: Tues, Jul 25, 2000 at 23:16:55 (GMT)
From: ham
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: J-M, how often is he using this for official stuff
Message:
and at what speeds can it go.

Do you have his itinerary for this year?

I'm scared to express any more because I'm thinking starvation, and I'm scaring myself tonight with the level of my anger.

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Date: Wed, Jul 26, 2000 at 00:48:29 (GMT)
From: jondon
Email: None
To: ham
Subject: At what speeds can it go
Message:

Performance
Maximum Range
(Mach 0.80, 8 passengers, 3 crew, NBAA IFR reserves) 4,220 nm 7,820 km
Normal Cruise Speed Mach 0.80 459 ktas 851 km/h
Long Range Cruise Speed Mach 0.80 459 ktas 851 km/h
Mmo (Maximum Allowable Mach Number) Mach 0.88
Takeoff Distance (SL, ISA, MTOW) 5,450 ft 1,661 m
Landing Distance (SL, ISA, MLW) 3,190 ft 972 m
Initial Cruise Altitude 41,000 ft 12,497 m
Maximum Cruise Altitude 45,000 ft 13,716 m

Weights
Maximum Takeoff Weight 74,600 lb 33,838 kg
Maximum Landing Weight 66,000 lb 29,937 kg
Maximum Zero Fuel Weight 49,000 lb 22,226 kg
Basic Operating Weight (including 3 crew) 42,500 lb 19,278 kg
Maximum Payload 6,500 lb 2,948 kg
Payload with Maximum Fuel 3,000 lb 1,361 kg
Maximum Fuel Weight 29,500 lb 13,381 kg
Allowance for outfitting and operating items 7,000 lb 3,175 kg

Design Standards
Engines (2) Rolls-Royce Tay Mk 611-8
Rated Takeoff Thrust ea. 13,850 lb 61.6 kN
Passengers (Maximum) 19
Passengers (Typical Outfitting) 12-14

Interior
Cabin Length 45 ft 1 in 13.7 m
Cabin Height 6 ft 2 in 1.88 m
Cabin Width 7 ft 4 in 2.24 m
Cabin Volume 1,525 cu ft 43.2 cu m
Baggage Compartment Volume 169 cu ft 4.8 cu m

Exterior
Length 88 ft 4 in 26.9 m
Height 24 ft 5 in 7.4 m
Wingspan 77 ft 10 in 23.7 m

Check out this link: http://www.gulfstream.com/prod/givsp/

That'll get you to the Gulfstream IV page. It is built by Grumman.

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Date: Wed, Jul 26, 2000 at 03:39:07 (GMT)
From: hamzen
Email: None
To: jondon
Subject: How many hours in the air this year?
Message:
though. It's the overall running costs for a year I wanted jondon, need to know how many hours of running costs this obscene little man burns up, and that's leaving out the environmental damage he causes, the biological damage, and this from someone who really 'appreciates' life!!

But thanks for that part of the equation.

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Date: Wed, Jul 26, 2000 at 13:36:42 (GMT)
From: Malibu Mole
Email: None
To: hamzen
Subject: How many hours in the air this year?
Message:
Ham,

if you want to know how many hours the plane is in the air each year, email Bruce Vogt, the Gulfstream IV flight engineer, at: bvogt_email@compuserve.com

Some gossip now:

Hutcherson has quit and gone to work for his previous boss, Barry Hon the Real Estate Developer in Los Angeles. He will be the Chief Pilot and flying
a Global Express (and making more money and staying home more).
Rick Drake is going to replace him. Rick used to fly on a contract basis during the challenger years. Gwen Herrington is Marilyn's backup Flight Attendant. She would be part time. She used to be a Flight Attendant on the 707 in 1980-1983.

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Date: Thurs, Jul 27, 2000 at 04:09:53 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Malibu Mole
Subject: How many hours in the air this year?
Message:
Is he planning to try it again with another flight attendent?
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Date: Thurs, Jul 27, 2000 at 14:23:01 (GMT)
From: Malibu Mole
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: New flight attendant
Message:
I don't know. I believe he keeps one as a stand-by. He has had a few in recent years. Two of them became pregnant (go figure) and left. The current one, Marylin, is on again, off again. So I guess he keeps one 'in-training'.
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Date: Wed, Jul 26, 2000 at 18:04:15 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Malibu Mole
Subject: Questions...
Message:
Who is Hutcherson? Was he the pilot for the Gulfstream? I thought Maharaji was the pilot. Was that a fulltime position? If so, what did he do when Maharaji wasn't touring?

When you say Rick Drake 'used to fly as a contract pilot during the Challenger years,' are you saying he was the pilot of the Challenger? Again, I thought Maharaji was the pilot, but maybe two pilots are required.

What was the name of the pilot who did all the training with Maharaji back in the early 80s? The name 'Michael Murray' or something close to that comes to mind, but I may have that wrong.

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Date: Wed, Jul 26, 2000 at 19:16:39 (GMT)
From: Malibu Mole
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Questions...
Message:
Yes the planes require 2 pilots (pilot and co-), Hutch was with them full time. What he did on his own time is not known. He was not a Premie nor do I believe he had any idea what was going on around him. Or at least he pretended not to know.
Rick Drake was an earlier co-pilot on an earlier plane which also required two pilots. Don't know of Michael Murray.

I think Maharaji keeps a qualified pilot as his co-pilot in case they get into tight situations, he can then rely on them to assume command and get them out of any difficult situations. I believe Hutch was a Vietnam Vet pilot. You'd have to have a lot of confidence in someone who came back alive from there and I believe that it why M hires some Top Gun type pilots. I don't believe that M believes, that he (M) is all he (M)is cracked up to be. Those are just some hero stories created by the writing staff over at the EV comicbook hero office.

Look it's a bird
It's a plane
It's.....
It's SuperMaharaji
Defender of the poor and weak
He's come to save us

Nah! you were right the second time.
It's just a plane with some guy from India in it.

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Date: Wed, Jul 26, 2000 at 20:26:06 (GMT)
From: bill (murray)
Email: None
To: Malibu Mole
Subject: Questions...
Message:
more than likely, the viet vet flew transports.
I was a pilot around the vietnam years and the airlines were only hiring transport pilots. Very tough to get a job if you were a fighter or bomber pilot. You had too many bad habits that had no place in commercial flying.

Top Gun types were like my father who actually was in the naval air test pilot program. Those guys ended up risking thier lives
flying expiramental aircraft.
To those types, flying transports was like driving a bus on land.
You have no gas allowance to deviate from your very straight flight path and those 'need for speed' guys cant do that stuff.

So I guess that pilot was a transport pilot. Anyway, getting to fly a Global Explorer to me is better than the G$, ooops, I mean G4.

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Date: Wed, Jul 26, 2000 at 14:37:04 (GMT)
From: Elaine
Email: None
To: Malibu Mole
Subject: Gwen H.
Message:
Thank you on update on Gwen.Wondered if she was still a PAM. Would you happen to know anything about Bill Chericos then, since you know Gwen?

Thanks again,
Elaine

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Date: Wed, Jul 26, 2000 at 19:21:40 (GMT)
From: Malibu Mole
Email: None
To: Elaine
Subject: Gwen H.
Message:
I know the name.
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Date: Tues, Jul 25, 2000 at 16:32:25 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: A small thought experiment
Message:
If ELK actually had an uncensored forum where anyone, including exes, could post to their heart's content but the only catch was that posters had to use their own names, how many of you would post there?
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Date: Thurs, Jul 27, 2000 at 16:20:29 (GMT)
From: ham
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: A small thought experiment
Message:
(1) If any information posted here by an ex is innaccurate then ev/porky can resort to law, one assumes that the Forum would have some legal responsibility to reveal IP numbers or whatever they are called, and if anything legally irresponsible was posted one assumes the forum itself would delete to protect itself.

(2) Does EV/porky ever come here to challenge stuff directly which they say is innaccurate, which they are quite free to do, not to my knowledge? So why should I even waste my time acknowledging a single thing they say when they don't even bother to come here to challenge, they are obviously not interested enough. No chance.

(3) This is a cyber cafe, and this is my cyber self which is also my post premie self, and when I've got the dosh it will also become my legal name.

(4) I've hardly had any contact with the premie world for twenty years, only in contact with one premie, who knows I post here and the name I use. If she wants to blow my 'cover' if it's seen by that term, she can any time she likes, but she needas to make the effort, I am not making one concession to porky on any level ever again.

(5) Anyone who thinks anonymous postings by exes affects their arguments, even one mm, will think that way whether the poster is anonymous or not, they will always dig up some illogical reason for denial. The arguments stand by themselves or they don't.

(6) Even if someone says they are posting under their real name, without a truth commission, and unless they were in a well known ashram or were well known in their community, it would be impossible to prove.

(7) Zeldas argument about abusive premies, children etc

(8) I still think it's possible when the final meltdown happens and he gets seriously squeezed, he could flip, and then the devotional aspect could get weird, because if there was absolutely no need to maintain the civilized facade then what's to lose, after all it's a cult pure & simple. Not worried about myself, but exes in a situation where they do have contact with, and are known, could be at risk. I think that should be a personal responsibility, and not a pressured guilt trip, bearing in mind the vulnerability of some premies exiting etc etc.

(9) Out of respect for you I will now give my name, but that is the last, one & only time I intend to do so.

Mike Cobb

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Date: Thurs, Jul 27, 2000 at 16:25:36 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: ham
Subject: Not THE Mike Cobb? U owe me money!
Message:
No wonder you hesitated, Mike. Where's the two quid I lent you at the Alley Palley?

No, seriously, I certianyl respect all you said and ahve to run off to court now. More later.....

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Date: Thurs, Jul 27, 2000 at 00:42:10 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: for what it's worth
Message:
I support most everything you have said about anonymity these past few days. I do NOT think you are being myopic, etc.
You have given to the fact that some ex's have valid reasons for anonymity. and supported my stand that many just want to hide.
I think your delivery is harse at times. But that is the Jim we know.
And unfortunately I agree with Joe that this type of stand we take will go nowhere. Too easy to invent reasons to stay anon.

These things can't be forced. Except perhaps for tech solutions like JohmT presented. But again, that will take time to evolve.

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Date: Thurs, Jul 27, 2000 at 01:01:32 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: Thanks, Selene (nt)
Message:
rrrrr
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Date: Wed, Jul 26, 2000 at 21:42:19 (GMT)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: A small thought experiment
Message:
Jim,

As you may remember, I posted an ambiguous message on ELK using my real name which could have been interpreted as pro-M but, as I explained on this site, was anti-M. When I sent them the correct interpretation they removed it, but it took them about two weeks.

I have no problem using my own name to share my thoughts and feeling about Maharaji.

John Brauns

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Date: Wed, Jul 26, 2000 at 17:46:01 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: I HAVE a post on ELK.
Message:
Last fall, I put an entry on ELK, using my own name and they posted it. It was a MEANINGLESS, out-of-context quote from T.S. Eliot. It made me wonder if they CARE who posts anything there, as long as it doesn't criticize Maharaji, and as long as it is either meaningless or fawning about knowledge and Maharaji.

Is it time to do another bunch of anonymous postings to ELK and see how they censor them? Or maybe there is a glasnost going on? I mean Andy Perl as something on the Elan Vital website that critizies the 'confused' way Maharaji is presented by premies, and even criticizes the 'trinket bizarre' at 'events.' I wonder how that got through, or is EV tying to sound like it is open to criticism. Note, however, the Perl doesn't mention that Maharaji is also extremely confused about who he presents HIMSELF. Or if he said it, it got edited out.

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Date: Wed, Jul 26, 2000 at 08:12:13 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: A small thought experiment
Message:
Hi Jim,

As an egomaniac who loves to see his name in print, I'd be there.

I've never had any aggro' posting under my own name, and I think that the cult are much more scared of us than we are of them.

What can they do to us? Nothing. Any physical threats would rebound on them so heavily, they would be absolutely stupid to even suggest it.

And what can we do to them? We can pull back the curtains and expose their shoddy, dodgy dealings to the light of day, watching the cult crumble before our eyes- like it seems to be doing anyway. (Like those vampires that turn to dust when a ray light hits them).

Anth, Iconoclast from the Hammer House of Horror

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Date: Wed, Jul 26, 2000 at 16:18:44 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Exactly, Anth
Message:
There is nothing to fear from this cult. Nothing, that is, unless one's worried about losing a few 'friends'. Alas, the price of freedom ....
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Date: Wed, Jul 26, 2000 at 19:29:38 (GMT)
From: Zelda
Email: None
To: Jim and Ant
Subject: JIm what you are ignoring is
Message:
that the danger is not NECCESSARILY from EV itsself but from zealot premeis.
I get so tired of your one-pointedness Jim.
Wake up.

Example: I have a woman down the road from me- a closet ex whos' ex-partner (premie- who she is not living with ) has partial custody of their child.

When she has expressed doubt about M to him - he is such a zealot that he gives the child a stepped up program of videos of M and tapes of his satsang while he drives the child to school. This is how he compensates for any influence she may have had on the child about it.

This is not an isolated case- lots and lots of expremie women have UNSTABLE premie men in their past.
For us to come out as exes puts us and children at risk to religious and emotional abuse

We did not only have a relationship to M and DLM - we had entanglements with the premies and a huge ratio are unstable- you know that from what they manifest here on the forum. You know that when they are subject to pressure from you they show how irrational and irratic they can be.
Please see that the same irrationality carries over into their personal lives. They are defending the LORD.

Can you imagine if someone like Cat had custody of a child of an EX?
You talk like a person who deals with accountability or lack of in people daily-
but I know that what you advocate about coming out about EV is not advisable because it also would involve coming out to some fanantic premies.

Please be aware of the downline effect of what you are advocating.

It is not isolated cases I am speaking about.

I believe that there is a place for those who are the warriors in the front lines such as yourself- and also those of us who remain anon. but work against M in a different way. We are also effective behind the scenes if only as a confidant to fenceline premies in the kind of domestic tangle I have described.

For a guy who is in the thick of battle, you seem naive to the things premies are capable on the domestic front.
IF you are aware of what they are capable of , then you seem to be marginalizing to clear the way for your premis.

Zelda

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Date: Wed, Jul 26, 2000 at 23:18:20 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Zelda
Subject: No, that's not fair
Message:
Zelda,

I said from the start of this discussion that there are likely situations where anonymity's necessary. Child custody issues chief among them.

But this fear of crazy premies is bullshit. Sorry, that's how I see it. Frankly, I think that's just a big excuse people bandy about. If that's a threat, it's too marginal to take seriously. The real threat is that the premies will ostracize anyone they know has turned on Maharaji. That's happened to me and apparently it's happened to everyone who's come out publically against the cult and yet has attempted, to some extent, to communicate with premie friends.

But tell me what the alternative is, Zelda? A lifetime of duplicity? When are things ever going to change such that anonymous exes will feel comfortable coming out of the shadows?

Premies have a very, very good reason for posting anonymously. They're in a cult and can't afford rejection or criticism from their peers or leader. That fear is real. Ex's fear is imaginary except in certain unique circumstances.

Anyway, we all know our own situations. If my argument fails to persuade, so be it. It's just an argument. Whatever. Maybe I should have never posted under my name and that way I could have all sorts of 'good realtionships' in the premie world. Hm?

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Date: Wed, Jul 26, 2000 at 01:31:17 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: A game EV plays with recent exes who post here
Message:
To Jim and all -
I have waited a long time before posting this, but I have just had the third person who recently started posting on the forum under an assumed name tell me that this has happened to them.

It is possible that if a recent ex (presumably someone who has been going to programs, etc.), starts posting here, that EV will then start calling them for MORE 'service', and so forth. This has happened to three people that have posted on the forum. Two used assumed names, but were easily recognizable by personal information that they gave on the forum. The other one used her real first name, and apparently was identified by that (and other personal information that she revealed on the forum.)

In one case, the person was asked to host a program with an instructor at his/her house (a request NEVER made before, by the way). In the other two cases, people were asked, respectively, to do service at a program, and to participate in a phone conference. All these examples occurred after several months of the person in question not going to programs AND posting on this forum.

All these requests by EV bothered the person who was being called very much. I do not know if EV is innocent in these situations - in other words, they are trying to 'call back' these premies who are straying by asking them to do 'special' service, or whether the requests are intended to harrass these people and let them know that EV has its eye on them.

Anyway, just thought I'd say this, since other recent exes here may have run into the same thing.

Take care -
Katie

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Date: Thurs, Jul 27, 2000 at 11:31:46 (GMT)
From: Zelda
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: to Jim re 'not fair'
Message:
I have been thinking about this today while I drove a few hundred miles in open country.

First, I had not given much thought to the idea that remaining anonymous had to do with keeping premie friends. It is so out of my sphere that it just didnt figure in for me- I see your point but I dont know anyone in that position. I am very used to bieng ostrasized and a few premies wont make a difference. My circle of friends is small and not remotely related to Mahaha- in fact I am happy if it never comes up in that circle.

You say:

'But this fear of crazy premies is bullshit. Sorry, that's how I see it. Frankly,

I think that's just a big excuse people bandy about. If that's a threat, it's too marginal to take seriously. The real threat is that the premies will ostracize anyone they know has turned on Maharaji. That's happened to me and apparently it's happened to everyone who's come out publically against the cult and yet has attempted, to some extent, to communicate with premie friends.'

My reality is that the premies I know are from the old days.
Some of them are aware that I am an ex and we dont have much to do with each other. But there are a are into substances and the mixture of zealousness about M and substance is not good.

Along with that , I also counsel women trying to break away from the cult and/or premie men/partners.I dont want to talk about that.

but your question -
'But tell me what the alternative is, Zelda? A lifetime of duplicity? When are things ever going to change such that anonymous exes will feel comfortable coming out of the shadows?'
--Has me thinking

It seems that the situation needs a double approach.
If the goal is to expose Mahaha publically for what he is, then I think that we are doing a good job. Exs who are 'out' and those who keep their identity secret seem to be cooperating on this.
This tactic would include media coverage in my mind.

(For me to participate in the forum makes me feel free of the trap ).

But if the goal would be not only expose him and put the breaks on his activitis AND get compensation for us or a group suit for cult brainwashing or some such wild thing-- then I think we would need to work towards having all exs be identified.

Like someone said above on this thread, (AJW? or been) - If we had a goal that required names of exs to get a formal process going- it would put a different light on all of this very quickly.

I am open to more on this. What would be the advantage to having all of us reveal out identity? Would it be for our personal 'relief'? or would it be a way to show the premies how many ex are around?
What would be the motive for doing it?

Zelda

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Date: Thurs, Jul 27, 2000 at 16:12:49 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Zelda
Subject: to Jim re 'not fair'
Message:
What would be the advantage to having all of us reveal out identity? Would it be for our personal 'relief'? or would it be a way to show the premies how many ex are around?
What would be the motive for doing it?

Well, 'personal relief' is right up there. There's nothing like publically sticking it to the guy you once cowered before. But also, like I've said, I think that, while exes who aren't in particularly sensitive situations can easily afford to post openly (and sorry, I'm still not persuaded that even substance-abusing premies pose any real personal safety risk. That's just a bit of a 'bugaboo' in my opinion), premies simply can't. Thus, I think the symbolism, if you will, of a bunch of public people talking about Maharaji critically and challenged only by a few, anonymous cult members, is great. And the greater the distinction, the better.

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Date: Thurs, Jul 27, 2000 at 23:20:27 (GMT)
From: P-Man
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: to Jim re 'not fair'
Message:
...and sorry, I'm still not persuaded that even substance-abusing premies pose any real personal safety risk

This just isn't true, Jim. Anytime you well and truly offend someone you take the chance of retribution. In the event you offend someone's God you take an even bigger risk. The risk may be worth it, but the risk is definitely there. Remember what happened to the guy who threw a pie in maharaji's face?

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Date: Fri, Jul 28, 2000 at 00:01:02 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: P-Man
Subject: to P-man
Message:
P-man,

Note that I said 'real risk'. And that's what I think. Fakiranand did try to 'smite' the pie guy, Pat Halley, in a completely different time and atmosphere. The cult was extremely concentrated and undiluted. Maharaji was the Lord of the Universe and, if you were around then, you'd recall that Fakiranand was his notoriously fanatical (in a divine way, of course) lap dog. Well, there were others. I guess we ALL wanted to play that role. But Fakiranand was certainly there, that's for sure.

And, like I said the other day, Maharaji was indeed phyiscally assaulted then. Sure, it was just a cream pie but it was an assault nonetheless. If we were talking about assaulting Maharaji now -- *which we're not* -- I'd agree that that's treacherous work. Or if perhaps one of us had his secret forumla or something and he was worried we were going to sell it. But this shit? Dissing him on a web site with a bunch of other disgruntled customers? I really don't think there's anything to worry about.

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Date: Thurs, Jul 27, 2000 at 20:51:39 (GMT)
From: Zelda
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: to Jim re 'not fair'
Message:
that explains.
BUt what do you mean be 'prmies simply cant?'

do you mean that the socially oxidized premies are pretty harmless? If so you may know how I think of that:
I would not be ready to risk a scrape with a rusty premie unless we exs had maraji on a truck headed straight for the dump.

I wanna see a major tabloid series and/or I want my name on that layers desk under the category 'guru-emotional abuse' victims.

Jim I know you know better tham me on that last point, but I just hadda say that.

One more thing, which reflets my experience in another 'battle' not relating to Marmot- for us to individually expose out names WITHOUT a group body other than this forum - would set us up like ducks.

We would need a group affiliation that is not as loose as a 'participator' in the forum. I say this because fenceline premies may feel it is expected for them to reveal their names and they would need a back up organization for support.

We would have to 'out' the ex premie movement much like the ex mormons or something. that means a hotline and/or survival kit for would-be exs with no access to the net. Net guerilla groups are inaccessable to the average mom in the carpool who is on a low income because the money went elsewhere and a computer is 'mind' anyway.

Premies 'cant' take on exs directly but they do take the coward way and undermine professional situations and family structurs.

Dont forget, the children of those relationships are STILL considered as the devotees of tomorrow or suffer from cult-family dysfunction.
To push for names without back up is not healthy for them.

Premies still think he is God.

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Date: Fri, Jul 28, 2000 at 00:05:21 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Zelda
Subject: to Zelda
Message:
Zelda,

I'm not sure exactly what you mean or why you think we need some sort of formal group identity. And I don't think in any event that we're somehow 'sitting ducks' otherwise. Sorry, I jsut don't see it that way.

I think it's perfectly okay for this loose net-based association of ex-premies to do what we're doing. My thought is that the more public, the better. When concerted real-world efforts are necessary, well, that's what MRC came together for, right?

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Date: Wed, Jul 26, 2000 at 07:52:50 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: Who knows? Maybe it'll works?
Message:
I've also got a few phone calls from premies I knew, but hadn't been in touch with for years.

They've tried to 'talk' to me, not much success .....

Even a few month ago, one of the EV's honchos came to see me, wanted to have a conversation with me. I was quite busy and declined. They made a wrong choice, because I don't like the guy so much. Maybe they'd have more success with persons I was friend with ! Keep trying, keep trying ...

My feeling is that these guys are pathetic. Maybe some are not, I wonder !

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Date: Wed, Jul 26, 2000 at 02:46:47 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: Big fucking deal!
Message:
So waht you're telling me is that EV makes some pathetic attempts to keep some people in the cult when they think that they're losing them. Someone was asked to host a program and two others were asked to do some service. Is that it? That's the harrassment everyone's so scared of? Oh no, I forgot the request to partake in a phone conference. Christ! Where's the sarin gas? Where are the underground burial places and secret cement cemetaries? Give me a fucking break, will you?

You say that these efforts on EV's part bothered these exes 'very much'. Like not 'much' or even 'some' but 'very much'. Holy cow, was anyone hospitalized? Really, I had no idea that things were so traumatic for people. Yes, I can perfectly understand these exes living the rest of their lives in the Ex-Premie Witness Protection Program.


Talk about hothouse flowers.

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Date: Wed, Jul 26, 2000 at 23:32:08 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: fitzroy@liverpool.ac.uk
To: Jim
Subject: Big fucking deal! - maybe so...
Message:
Jim,

It was psychological and peer-group pressure (plus a big dose of FEAR re. the consequences of leaving) which presumably kept you and most here in the cult for all those years. For people still involved and wavering, I should think the situation WOULD be scary, and to see EV applying the psychological pressure to the very last is ugly indeed and I am glad Katie brought this to light.

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Date: Wed, Jul 26, 2000 at 23:47:51 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: Big fucking deal! - maybe not
Message:
Nigel,

What kept me in the cult was a combination of youthful idealism / naivite, information deprivation, residual, and unjustified social acceptance of cute little, exotic eastern trinkets like gurus (take a look at the Toronto Sun comment on Maharaji as 'guru of the minute' with the 'luminosity of buddah' which Salam posted the other day from Who is Guru Maharaj Ji?).

But whatever kept me there, having left I'm determined to never cower before this fat, greasy little fucker who is, himself, the biggest coward here. Don't you feel the same way? So what's the problem with trying to encourage others to join suit? Face it, EV has a point when they discount our criticism as coming from anonymous sources. Sure, Joe's right, it's great to hear from 'moles' and the such. But most of us don't have any such good excuses for hiding. It's just hiding for its own sake.

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Date: Thurs, Jul 27, 2000 at 00:10:58 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: A Comment Re 'Leaving'
Message:
I think for a lot of people, including me, there wasn't a clear point when I 'became an ex-premie.' For a lot of us it was an evolving process. I know I spent a lot of time talking to people about my doubts, before I split, and if I thought that it could become known to all the premies would know about my doubts, I probably wouldn't have done it, both because of fear of rejection, but also because they would try to 'save me' by resorting to the psychological manipulation that premies can be so good at. Since this forum is a kind of 'talking to people about doubts' for some, I think it's easier if they are able to be anonymous to avoid the fears and focus on trying to think straight for the first time in many years.

I agree with Nigel that the Maharaji-cult is built on a lot of fear. And it's fear that is so ingrained that it's irrational and almost subconscious. I don't think people leaving the cult even know why they're afraid. They just are because it's so conditioned into them. You're right that you have to bust through that, but it can take time. For people like you and me, we've been away from the cult for a lot longer than we were ever in it, so it's a helluva lot easier. Despite that, I felt residual fear when I first started posting here a couple of years ago (god, it's THREE years now.) Again, I don't know why really, but it went away pretty fast.

I agree, though, that this doesn't apply to everyone and I also agree that people should be encouraged to use their real names. It is very freeing and you realize that there isn't anything to fear. But that doesn't mean that the fear isn't real.

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Date: Thurs, Jul 27, 2000 at 00:41:10 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: I agree with all you say
Message:
This time I'm not being facetious. I agree with all of it. But yes, I think there's room for a little friendly encouragement, once in a while, to give up anonymity. The fact is, anonymity, like most things, has a price. It costs the poster himself something, I think, in terms of the pride one feels standing up to Maharaji and it costs the campaign against Maharaji (which is NOT a joke) some credibility. I'm not quantifying either cost or denying that there may be some benefits, either individually or otherwise, for anonymity in certain cases. I'm just saying that, over all, I think it's a mistake for ex's to simply settle into anonymity without regard to the benefits of going public.
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Date: Thurs, Jul 27, 2000 at 19:14:19 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: 'the benefits of going public'
Message:
the benefits are many, Jim, we both know that.

However, enticing others to go public by insinuating guilt/shame for NOT doing so is a sticky wicket to bat from, IMO.

Encouraging others to go public is a different matter.

Fact: I have not had ANY unwanted/unsolicited email/snail-mail/any other kind of mail invasions of my privacy as a result of posting my identity on ex-premie.org to date.

Declaring your identity on this forum might be considered unwise by some. But I for one, am glad I found out for myself.

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Date: Wed, Jul 26, 2000 at 17:45:04 (GMT)
From: Hal
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Big fucking deal!
Message:
Jim I think you are being as usual rather myopic. Your view of things just has to be the definitive one doesn't it? Are you unable to understand that you cannot possibly live in someone else's head? You're being the big macho kid again. PEOPLE ARE DIFFERENT. They have different fears. Maybe this is not one of your fears but I'll bet you have some kind of , what to others may seem irrational, fear. No?

I found that having someone whom I had just crossed swords with on the forum, threaten to come to where I lived and look me up ,very unpleasant, as I have no idea of the psychological condition of this guy.

You also sneer at not wanting to lose friends. Well to me friends are important. I have a handful of good friends whom I've known for 20-30 yrs. Some of them still are in the cult. They are people who I would gladly explain to face to face why I'm not 'in' anymore and they would respect my decision . However to read some of the jokey comments and rudeness that I express to premies and Maha here would upset them and cause a bad feeling. Sorry Jim but that does matter to me. I still respect their choice in being involved even though I can't relate to why they are. Perhaps their time is not ripe. I do sometimes have sensitivity to people's feelings and don't feel the need to stomp on their beliefs.

Different folks, different strokes,

What's the similarity between a lawyer and a hippopotomus ?

They're both thick skinned, myopic and liable to charge unexpectedly ! Boom , boom.

One day I may well post using my real name, when the time is right for me, not because of pressure from you. It's a lot easier to do it when one has lost contact with premie friends or when one hasn't been involved for 10-25yrs,

Hal

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Date: Wed, Jul 26, 2000 at 23:35:37 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Hal
Subject: No big deal...
Message:
Hal, consider this: if you use your own name instead of being anonymous, and changed what you say to accomodate your new status as a 'real' person who posts with his premie friends in mind as a potential audience. I think this would work well. You could post as the person you are and your friends wouldn't get upset as you would be posting with them in mind.
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Date: Wed, Jul 26, 2000 at 23:07:09 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Hal
Subject: Sorry, Hal, I completely support your hypocrisy
Message:
Forgive me, Hal. I forget sometimes that we need to be two-faced in this world. Silly me.
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Date: Wed, Jul 26, 2000 at 10:24:39 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: You miss my point.
Message:
It's BECAUSE of anonymity that this happens - the EV people can thus pretend that they do not know the person in question is posting on the forum.
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Date: Wed, Jul 26, 2000 at 15:52:28 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: Yes, I guess I do -- I still don't get it, in fact
Message:
What IS your point, Katie?
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Date: Wed, Jul 26, 2000 at 13:30:04 (GMT)
From: bill
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: You miss my point.
Message:
Hi Katie, well it does show that ev reads the forum!
I imagine they must hold thier nose and listen to satsang by the lord as they read here.
Not all the folks in my area heard about me......yet, but I will make sure they do. I am developing my written 'hello' for them at the present time. After all, it is a hard cult to exit from for a lot of them. I should help. They were my friends.
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Date: Wed, Jul 26, 2000 at 07:24:25 (GMT)
From: Oliver
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: It was much worse than that for me......
Message:
....they asked me for money!!!
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Date: Wed, Jul 26, 2000 at 15:54:43 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Oliver
Subject: and wasn't it fun to say 'no'?
Message:
I just WISH these guys would contact me and ask for something. I feel neglected. And tell me it wasn't fun telling them to fuck off? It must have been.
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Date: Wed, Jul 26, 2000 at 01:25:47 (GMT)
From: Michael
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: A small thought experiment
Message:
I would post there under my real name, but I would not want ELK to know too much about me, as I wouldn't want them to mis-use the information, just as Katie said. I really don't post here all that much, and I would rarely post at an ELK site.

I agree with you concerning anonymous posting; I think it is best to hold up one's head and post under one's real name, and I think that we, as an anti-M site, lose some credibility when we post under handles. I urge every ex-premie who can safely post under their actual name to 'come out;' it is really quite liberating and establishes one's freedom from the clutches of M and his sorry little cult.

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Date: Wed, Jul 26, 2000 at 00:52:58 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: A small thought experiment
Message:
Jim, as you know, I use my real name (first and last, if necessary) to post. I would NOT post on ELK, however, under any name. They have shown themselves guilty of editing and misquoting contributions, and I would be very wary of putting anything on there that could be mis-used.
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Date: Wed, Jul 26, 2000 at 00:24:28 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Jim,Katie,Been through..
Subject: It did make me think
Message:
As always I want to be fair. I hate that.
It *would* be scary to be there and not be anonymous.
But the difference between that and premies posting here for me is I would NOT go there unless as Pman said there were some very urgent reason such as to help ex's with a serious issue like a litigation etc.
I cannot imagine wanting to post there. I can barely read there but do from time to time when alerted to something such as EV's FAQ.

ps to Katie and to 'been through this':
I am sorry I lost it this week about anonymity and was I feel, too attacking and paranoid. Been through this, all I can say is it wasn't meant to come across as personal as it did since I don't really know who you are. I was over-reacting to other stuff in my life. Katie I am very impressed by the guidelines for anonymity you wrote to me. I saved them. Won't make the same mistake again. Thanks so much.

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Date: Wed, Jul 26, 2000 at 01:46:38 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: What are those guidelines? (nt)
Message:
?nt
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Date: Wed, Jul 26, 2000 at 02:21:51 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: SB
Subject: To SB - RePost, slightly edited
Message:
There have been a couple of people on here that I really liked, but who would not even e-mail me, let alone reveal who they really were, and that made me feel really bad.

I have trouble setting boundaries for this kind of thing, but I think I've been learning to do it. For instance, I will correspond by e-mail, or even talk on the phone, with an
anonymous person if I know and trust someone else who knows who they *really* are. But otherwise I am very cautious, and tend to be non-committal, impersonal, and don't trust the person that much - in other words, I wouldn't say anything to them that I wouldn't say on the forum.

The real question is how much can YOU trust someone who won't even trust YOU enough to reveal their real name?

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Date: Wed, Jul 26, 2000 at 11:52:11 (GMT)
From: sb
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: To SB - RePost, slightly edited
Message:
Siully me. I though that you actually...I don't know what I thought. Thanks Katie.

S

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Date: Wed, Jul 26, 2000 at 01:09:56 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: Take care, Selene
Message:
Hi Selene -
I know you have been really hurt by 'anonymity', and I sympathize (and certainly hope it doesn't happen again!). Problem is that that person could probably be anonymous wherever and whatever, if they are that hung up about it.

I'm glad you liked my guidelines. I HAVE revealed stuff about myself to two anonymous people, but only when I knew that someone else I trusted knew their identity and was willing to vouch for them (one person is a 'mole', so I do understand that (loose lips sink ships and all that), and the other was a very scared premie). Both communications seemed to work out all right - I never learned either person's identity, but it's OK. But again, it didn't ever get that personal, for which I'm thankful. I have boundary problems too.

I think there are some people who need to be anonymous on the net for reasons other than personal safety, fear of family retribution, etc. I think that sometimes it can be a way that people express their shadow side, and as you know, I have dealt with this personally. Unfortunately, that usually inflicts pain on others, because the truth comes out sooner or later.

Take care of yourself, girlfriend!
Lots of love,
Katie

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Date: Wed, Jul 26, 2000 at 05:56:51 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: I plan to take care
Message:
When it comes to people here, I learn slowly. but learn I do.

And Katie, 'they' are that hung up about it. And will resurface no doubt.
and as you said:
I think that sometimes it can be a way that people express their shadow side, and as you know, I have dealt with this personally. Unfortunately, that usually inflicts pain
on others, because the truth comes out sooner or later.

===========

Which is why I think anonymity is often abused. Haven't changed my mind there. Well they are chicken shit. Hell my shadow side has been expressed w/o the anonymity. I don't think it's so awful. I think it would suck to hide all the time w/o a good reason for it.

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Date: Wed, Jul 26, 2000 at 20:33:32 (GMT)
From: bill
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: I plan to take care
Message:
Hi Selene, about hiding, dont hide too much from the forum! We dont get to read you as much and sometimes a little Selene can make a day perfect.
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Date: Wed, Jul 26, 2000 at 20:53:19 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: bill
Subject: thanks bill don't worry I get obsessive
Message:
I'll be around. Just a little more thoughtful.
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Date: Wed, Jul 26, 2000 at 10:48:20 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: I plan to take care
Message:
I have trouble understanding how people CAN remain anonymous sometimes. Every time I have tried to use a pseudonym (for fun), I end up saying so many identifying things that someone outs me. Oh well.

I'm outta here for several days - hope you have a good trip too.

Love,
Katie

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Date: Wed, Jul 26, 2000 at 03:06:39 (GMT)
From: Been through this
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: Take care, Selene
Message:
Selene
its ok
for me it is a safety thing
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Date: Tues, Jul 25, 2000 at 23:26:01 (GMT)
From: ham
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Thanks but no thanks
Message:
You won't catch me entering anywhere to do with him ever again, never ever, under ANY circumstances.

Even the thought of being another notch on their site visited numbers I find appalling.

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Date: Tues, Jul 25, 2000 at 23:06:28 (GMT)
From: Ben Lurking
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: A small thought experiment
Message:
Not I, premies and there past physical violence to non belivers is the reason I am anon. I don't want to wake up some morning and find my house trashed because some cultist thinks I dispareged their teacher. (I live in a community with a large hindu following of m)
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Date: Wed, Jul 26, 2000 at 03:10:24 (GMT)
From: Zelda
Email: None
To: thread
Subject: A small thought experiment
Message:
Not me.
my dealings with premies included ones on the wrong side of the
law and in their zealot times they are and have been dangerous.
This aspect of them is not relating to GM but could end up that way.
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Date: Tues, Jul 25, 2000 at 22:26:47 (GMT)
From: Lotus Eater
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Anonymity
Message:
Dear Jim,

My concern with anonymity has nothing to do anymore (it did right at the beginning, but I agree, I could have just read and waited til I felt comfortable to post under my real name*) with premies or exes knowing my full name, any premie reading this forum who knows me personally would have worked it out by now. In fact I would welcome the opportunity for a free and open discussion on elk.

I have already received messages from a porn site which my server has now blocked, I think this happened because i clicked on a see this picture in a posting. I am relatively inexperienced with the web.

Lesley (my real first name)

*ps, having just read that I have to say it was great to be able to converse directly at a time when I still thought Maharaji might be god after all and me needing to go crawling back!LE

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Date: Wed, Jul 26, 2000 at 01:19:19 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Lotus Eater
Subject: to Lesley
Message:
Hi Lesley -
First, I want to say that I am sorry you got porn 'spam'. I have found out over the past couple of years that ANYONE who visits a porn site (even inadvertently) might get this kind of e-mail. I used to think everyone just got it as a matter of course, but then I found out that my ex-husband was using my computer to look at porn sites (without telling me - and he could have used his OWN computer!). My mother and sister get this type of spam just from being on 'America On-Line' (AOL - the biggest internet server in the US), so you are not alone.

I am glad you feel comfortable posting under your real name now - I have noticed for a while that you've been signing your posts 'Lesley'. But I'm also glad that you didn't wait until you felt comfortable posting under your own name! I think this is one of the benefits of anonymity - a lot of exes, or wavering premies, post here under pseudonyms until they feel OK about posting under their own name. I, personally, WELCOME these posts, and I am very happy that you found the forum and benefited from it.

BTW, if you want to post under your real name now, I am sure the FA's wouldn't mind (I used to be a FA). Lots of people have made that transition in the past.

Take care - and thanks for your posts.
Katie

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Date: Wed, Jul 26, 2000 at 22:49:57 (GMT)
From: Lotus eater
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: thanks Katie
Message:
You're right, there is something in this 'alter ego' thing of a pseudonym; I'm still a little attached to Lotus Eater, she has definitely sworn off lotus eating, but helps me face up to having been a premie.....however, in preference to such schizo leanings, I will shortly be requesting her demise. Lesley
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Date: Fri, Jul 28, 2000 at 23:12:41 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Lotus eater
Subject: you're welcome, LE
Message:
I know people who use pseudonyms on here who can say things under their pseudonmym that they cannot say under their real name. Go figure! (I have never tried it - or rather I HAVE tried it, but always got outed!)

Anyway, and again, I really do like your posts, so post on!

Take care,
Katie

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Date: Tues, Jul 25, 2000 at 21:56:16 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: A small thought experiment
Message:
I would, sure. And I agree with you that it would be better if everyone dropped anonymity. BUT, that isn't going to happen and isn't practical. I think if we expect premies to use their own names we should require exes to do the same, and I respect that there are some domestic situations that don't allow it. For example, I have communicated with a woman who is an ex-premie, and who has posted here anonymously, who said that if her premie husband knew about what she did, he would hassle her about her kids and that things were already difficult enough without that. I respect that.

Plus, I'm glad to see that occasionally a 'mole' can post useful information here, and by remaining anonymous he or she can keep getting information. Plus, I think it's useful for exes to get into 'events' and report on the latest, paranoid security procedures, and Maharaji's current ramblings. If they weren't anonymous, they probably would be banned, as I am sure you and I would be, not that I would ever go to one of those things anyway.

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Date: Tues, Jul 25, 2000 at 20:26:21 (GMT)
From: P-man
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: A small thought experiment
Message:
I think I'd pass. I already lost enough because of the Guru and wouldn't want to lose another penny. On the other hand, if the stakes were high enough I'd drop anonymity. For instance, to testify in court against him or be interviewed by a major media publication; something like that.
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Date: Wed, Jul 26, 2000 at 03:20:24 (GMT)
From: Zelda
Email: None
To: P-man
Subject: A small thought experiment - revised
Message:
after reading what powerman said,I add that if the stakes were high and focused , like a doposition or something like that,, where threats or distatefull overtures from premies or EV would be monitored , AND there was a identity to the body of EXS that provided some collective awareness - yes
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Date: Tues, Jul 25, 2000 at 17:39:04 (GMT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Good question
Message:
If they asked for a lot of information about me like what's my full name, where do I live, what's my telephone number, email address, etc., I might not. I don't know if I'd want them to have all that information. Yeah, I can hear it now. They had all that info when I was a premie. Why wouldn't I want them to have it as an ex? Well, I've got no business with them, anymore, so what would they need it for?
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Date: Tues, Jul 25, 2000 at 14:44:10 (GMT)
From: Way
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Transcripts now available at Visions
Message:
Visions online is now offering transcripts of recent talks by Mr. Rawat. They cost $3.00 a piece. Any takers?
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Date: Wed, Jul 26, 2000 at 03:56:02 (GMT)
From: Ben Lurking
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: Transcripts now available at Visions
Message:
Transcirbed from guru speak to what?
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Date: Tues, Jul 25, 2000 at 13:31:20 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Who is Guru Maharaji JI?
Message:
Now I definetly know why I hate gm, I have volentered to scan his stupid book with my slower than turtle scanner, it took me 3 hours to scan 15 pages, I still have 335 to go, meanwhile it is interesting to read the stupid book, and found that gm mission was to make the world polution free, no poverty or hunger and ends suffering. Above from the fact that he made a bundle, nothing else was achived, not even fixing one poor soul's teeth.

This is from page 10 of the stupid book:

Great is the gift that Mabaraj Ji gives, for it allows his followers such joy that they no longer depend on circumstances for their happiness, and are thus free to work for the welfare of others without consideration of their own personal likings. Their happiness is in-fectious, for its source is clearly known, and can be communicated. They are untiring in good works. Pro-grams presently undertaken by disciples of Guru Maharaj Ji include the foundation of schools and hospitals, the setting up of a worldwide organization to end poverty and hunger, and the building of a model city where pollution and suffering will not exist.

What was it that EV registered under charity again?

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Date: Tues, Jul 25, 2000 at 14:04:34 (GMT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: Who is Guru Maharaji JI?
Message:
It was a lie which never worked because it never could. Premies, on the whole, are no happier than normal people. Most of the time they are freaked out trying to achieve an impossible goal which is unnatural, to say the least.

Regarding DLM & Elan Vital's status as charities in the UK, click here to read the full documented details of the scam.

There are a lot of people who should be brought to account for perpetrating the Maharaji con. Not just Maharaji but also most of the leaders of DLM and now Elan Vital. They are responsible for spreading an untruth to gullable and trusting people. They are all liars. They are self seeking, career cultists who have no scruples in bending the truth for their own self satisfied aims.

They lied when they proclaimed that they knew Maharaji was the Lord (when they knew he wasn't) and they now lie when they say that he was never proclaimed as the Lord. Maharaji lies, Elan Vital lies and the whole sick mess is a bunch of scheming, manipulating vermin. None of them can be trusted.

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Date: Tues, Jul 25, 2000 at 14:31:18 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: An the voice came to him and said
Message:
p13:


‘You are he.You are the one to go and give this to the world.'

On August 1st, Guru Mahamj Ji, eight years old, stood in front of the thousands of devotees present at his father’s funeral.

The voice came again, saying:

“This is the last I will tell you. You are he. You must take this Knowledge out to the world.”

====================================================
p.15

The Toronto Star of May 2nd, 1972 writes:

“The Guru of the minute is unquestion-ably Shri Satgurudev Maharaj Ji, Savior of Mankind, Perfect Master, Lord of the Universe, revealer of Light, love, peace, unity and everything eternal. Even in photographs, He has the luminosity of a Buddha or a Christ.”

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Date: Tues, Jul 25, 2000 at 03:58:59 (GMT)
From: What is this?
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Anybody knows these books?
Message:
I found them here, at a site about cults:

DLM/ElanVital

III. Selected References
Books

Dowton, James V. 1979.
Sacred Journeys: The Conversion of Young Americans to Divine Light Mission. New York: Columbia University Press.
Articles

Messa, Jeanne, 1976.
'Guru Maharaj Ji and the Divine Light Mission' in Charles V. Glock and Robert Bellech. The New Religious Consciousness. Berkeley, CA: University of California Press, pp. 52-72.

Price, Maeve. 1979.
'The Divine Light Mission as a Social Organization.' The Sociological Review, 27:2, pp. 279-296.

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Date: Tues, Jul 25, 2000 at 04:59:51 (GMT)
From: la-ex
Email: None
To: What is this?
Subject: another book about m
Message:
anybody remember this book from the 70's?

The Guru(Maharaj Ji)-by Bob Larson-1974

anything worth looking at?

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Date: Tues, Jul 25, 2000 at 04:56:39 (GMT)
From: Shroomananda
Email: None
To: What is this?
Subject: Yeah, I have Downton's book. He was a sociologist
Message:
in Denver who did a 5 year study on about 15 premies. It included in-depth life histories of four of them. It has a lot of quotes from Maharaji interspersed throughout the book as well as before Knowledge, the Knowledge session and after Knowledge stories from many of the selected premies. It ended with a questionaire he sent to the premies about their feelings about Maharaji and Knowledge 5 years later. Most responded and were still involved but some had fallen out or were lukewarm. I was amazed that all of the premies in the study had been pretty involved with psychedelics before Knowledge. He was pretty fair about his treatment and apparently had the blessings of Divine Light Mission. There were about 8 or so pictures of Maharaji that they provided which are in the book. One thing that I wondered after reading it is if he ever received Knowledge after writing it. In the foreward, he said he wanted to remain impartial so he didn't want to receive Knowledge and bias the results of his study. But I did enjoy reading the stories of the premies and of course the quotes by Maharaji.
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Date: Tues, Jul 25, 2000 at 13:06:48 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: fitzroy@liverpool.ac.uk
To: Shroomananda
Subject: And what about the other papers..?
Message:
...where the cult doesn't come out smelling so squeaky-clean? Larkin and Foss, etc. There have been a good few.

Dowton's methods were not scientific and essentially involved asking premies whether they liked Knowledge. A bit like asking a Moonie whether they feel a benefit from Mooning.

And the idea that DLM would ever give its blessing to any independent research project that might raise criticisms is laughable beyond belief.

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Date: Tues, Jul 25, 2000 at 04:19:17 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: What is this?
Subject: Anybody knows these books?
Message:
I sent this info. to the forum adminstrator few weeks ago, perhaps you want to add this title also,

Soul Rush : The Odyssey of a Young Woman of the '70s
by Sophia A. Collier
.

Unfortunatly all these titles are out of print, but I am trying to track down

Price, Maeve. 1979.
'The Divine Light Mission as a Social Organization.' The Sociological Review, 27:2, pp. 279-296.

seeing that it is a journal, if I do I will will try to post it(though it is about 20 pages).

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Date: Tues, Jul 25, 2000 at 08:10:35 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: These references been lifted from EV-DLM Papers!
Message:
Check the bibliography on the EV-DLM Papers, you'll find what you're looking for there !!
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Date: Tues, Jul 25, 2000 at 03:16:25 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Appreciation.org
Message:
These are some details on this site, anyone can comment or add to it? Interestingly I got this messagae on EV and maharaji.org : No match for network 204.168.20.68.

pair Networks (NETBLK-PAIRNET-BLK-3)
4100 Butler St
Pittsburgh PA 15201

Netname: PAIRNET-BLK-3
Netblock: 216.92.0.0 - 216.92.255.255
Maintainer: PAIR

Coordinator:
Martin, Kevin J. (KM383-ARIN) sigma@PAIR.COM
412 681 6932 (FAX) +1 412 681 6945

Domain System inverse mapping provided by:

NS1.PAIR.COM 209.68.1.11
NS0.NS0.COM 209.197.64.1

ADDRESSES WITHIN THIS BLOCK ARE NON-PORTABLE

Record last updated on 06-Apr-2000.
Database last updated on 24-Jul-2000 17:52:55 EDT.

The ARIN Registration Services Host contains ONLY Internet
Network Information: Networks, ASN's, and related POC's.
Please use the whois server at rs.internic.net for DOMAIN related
Information and whois.nic.mil for NIPRNET Information.

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Date: Tues, Jul 25, 2000 at 21:58:32 (GMT)
From: Lotus eater
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: Appreciation.org
Message:
Don't know what the technical stuff in your post was. Appreciation is the australian equivalent of elk, an unofficially sanctioned website where premies can 'express their gratitude and appreciation of our great and glorious Lord whilst helping to counter the internet influence of those miserable bitter hate filled, can't let go of the past, whining living dead who refuse to go away over on those sites which shall not be named, and which no-one should visit for fear of becoming contaminated by the black miasma of hell' LE
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Date: Wed, Jul 26, 2000 at 07:14:42 (GMT)
From: sam
Email: -
To: Lotus eater
Subject: Appreciation.org
Message:
I know the person who co-ordinates this site. Very few people (if any) just post to it about their experience. The co-ordinator asks people to ask premies who are going to a program to feed back-ie the community co-ordinator will ask. Its mainly all done 6through first class- their net comminication system.
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Date: Wed, Jul 26, 2000 at 21:53:03 (GMT)
From: Lotus eater
Email: None
To: sam
Subject: i know the coordinator too
Message:
but, do we know eachother????
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Date: Fri, Jul 28, 2000 at 02:27:52 (GMT)
From: sam
Email: -
To: Lotus eater
Subject: i know the coordinator too
Message:
well, do we know each other?
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Date: Fri, Jul 28, 2000 at 21:56:03 (GMT)
From: Lotus eater
Email: None
To: sam
Subject: is Sam your real name?
Message:
Lesley is mine.... have you done painting and bar work at amaroo?
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Date: Mon, Jul 31, 2000 at 02:52:52 (GMT)
From: sam
Email: -
To: Lotus eater
Subject: is Sam your real name?
Message:
no it is not my real name- idid stuff at amaroo but not that
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Date: Tues, Jul 25, 2000 at 22:11:25 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Lotus eater
Subject: Great Lotus, I'm laughing hard - can't type (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Tues, Jul 25, 2000 at 17:35:52 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: Appreciation.org
Message:
When I do a pings I get:

www.appreciation.org - 216.92.30.65
www.maharaji.org - 207.127.97.3
www.elanvital.org - 204.168.20.68
www.enjoyinglife.org - 212.87.82.97

More on appreciation.org, orbtained from doing a
Whois search at www.networksolutions.com:

Registrant:
Arbor Communications (APPRECIATION5-DOM)
P.O. Box 681
Edgecliff, NSW 2027
AU

Domain Name: APPRECIATION.ORG

Administrative Contact, Billing Contact:
Helman, Tony (TH8503) md@ARBORCOM.COM
Arbor Communications
P.O. Box 681
Edgecliff, NSW 2027
AU
61 412 438 488 (FAX) 61 2 93623744
Technical Contact, Zone Contact:
Administrator, Domain (DA550) domain@PAIR.COM
pair Networks, Inc
2403 Sidney St, Suite 510
Pittsburgh, PA 15203
+1 412 681 6932 (FAX) +1 412 381 9997

Record last updated on 15-Mar-1999.
Record expires on 17-Jan-2001.
Record created on 17-Jan-1999.
Database last updated on 24-Jul-2000 22:59:05 EDT.

Domain servers in listed order:

NS103.PAIR.COM 209.68.1.215
NS00.NS0.COM 216.92.60.60

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Date: Tues, Jul 25, 2000 at 03:04:44 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Carolyn Myss is pathetic
Message:
la-ex posted a piece below casting new-age snake-oil saleswoman in something of a favourable light. I'd never heard of her before. I must admit that the comments she made about gurus seemed exceedingly trite but whatever.

Then I picked up the latest Skeptic and read an article about her. What a transparent shark she is! Typical, typical, typical......

Sorry, not trying to pick a fight or anything. I just couldn't let this go unstated. She deserves nothing!

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Date: Tues, Jul 25, 2000 at 15:13:12 (GMT)
From: GERRY
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Well I discovered the cure for white man's disease
Message:
But I really can't compete with her medical intuitive course, chakra balancing and training with Carolyn Myss will consist of thousands of discoveries. I discovered only a few hundred things. Maybe she's just trashing the competition (gurus) so she can get a greater market share. It's just business, Jim.
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Date: Tues, Aug 01, 2000 at 04:32:35 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: GERRY
Subject: Oh hi Gerry, so you're at the end of this universe
Message:
Testing
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Date: Tues, Aug 01, 2000 at 04:36:02 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: Stonor
Subject: I'm trying to figure out my posting problem in
Message:
this out of the way place. Just tried a long one and it refused.
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