Forum V: Archive
Compiled: Mon, Aug 07, 2000 at 11:09:47 (GMT)
From: Jul 25, 2000 To: Aug 04, 2000 Page: 3 Of: 5


EddyTheTurtle -:- Just few general remarks......... -:- Sat, Jul 29, 2000 at 10:06:02 (GMT)
__ X -:- Just few general remarks......... -:- Sat, Jul 29, 2000 at 21:46:09 (GMT)
__ __ Selene -:- I listened to Drifting once -:- Sun, Jul 30, 2000 at 01:27:30 (GMT)
__ Joe -:- Just Curious..... -:- Sat, Jul 29, 2000 at 17:31:59 (GMT)
__ __ EddyTheTurtle -:- Just Curious..... -:- Sat, Jul 29, 2000 at 17:40:18 (GMT)
__ hamzen -:- In other words a paranoid control freak? -:- Sat, Jul 29, 2000 at 14:07:17 (GMT)
__ __ Nigel -:- In other words a paranoid control freak? -:- Sun, Jul 30, 2000 at 17:10:58 (GMT)
__ __ __ Robyn -:- In other words a paranoid control freak? -:- Mon, Jul 31, 2000 at 16:40:44 (GMT)
__ __ __ ham -:- Mapping the prawns psychology -:- Sun, Jul 30, 2000 at 22:35:39 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Nigel -:- Phlegm Rat is a prawn -:- Mon, Jul 31, 2000 at 13:59:04 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ ham -:- Nigel,the latest news almost answers one of my q' -:- Mon, Jul 31, 2000 at 07:06:59 (GMT)
__ __ __ G -:- clean freak -:- Sun, Jul 30, 2000 at 18:23:11 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ ham -:- What a sad fucker he is (nt) -:- Sun, Jul 30, 2000 at 22:39:58 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Zelda -:- Winding up a Sagitarian god-man Gumanji -:- Mon, Jul 31, 2000 at 03:27:43 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- No, Zelda, no. You don't want to go there -:- Mon, Jul 31, 2000 at 15:50:14 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Nigel -:- Excuse me, but I'm a Sagittarius, too... -:- Mon, Jul 31, 2000 at 12:37:09 (GMT)
__ __ Salam -:- Gurucharanand. -:- Sat, Jul 29, 2000 at 18:05:39 (GMT)
__ __ __ Lurkex -:- Gurucharanand. -:- Sat, Jul 29, 2000 at 18:18:42 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ SB -:- Gurucharanand. -:- Sat, Jul 29, 2000 at 22:16:24 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Jim -:- Served him right -:- Sat, Jul 29, 2000 at 19:22:55 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Salam -:- That shows you how lonly Gurucharanand was -:- Sat, Jul 29, 2000 at 18:29:15 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Zelda -:- To GURUCHARANAND: You can get married. NT -:- Sat, Jul 29, 2000 at 20:27:07 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ EddyTheTurtle -:- To GURUCHARANAND: You can get married. NT -:- Sat, Jul 29, 2000 at 20:35:35 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Zelda -:- To GURUCHARANAND: You can get married. NT -:- Tues, Aug 01, 2000 at 05:03:01 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Zelda -:- To GURUCHARANAND: You can get married. NT -:- Sat, Jul 29, 2000 at 20:46:26 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Salam -:- TheGURUCHARANAND Get Married Support Campaign..nt -:- Sun, Jul 30, 2000 at 04:47:00 (GMT)

Jean-Michel -:- Genuine info from Amaroo: unbelievable!! -:- Sat, Jul 29, 2000 at 07:44:44 (GMT)
__ Sir Dave -:- Genuine info from Amaroo: unbelievable!! -:- Sat, Jul 29, 2000 at 13:14:27 (GMT)
__ __ ham -:- Most rib crackingly funniest post for the week -:- Sun, Jul 30, 2000 at 06:53:50 (GMT)
__ __ __ Rev John Hammond-Smyth -:- I feel a sermon coming on -:- Mon, Jul 31, 2000 at 01:44:29 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ ham -:- And I say, Amen to that! -:- Mon, Jul 31, 2000 at 06:02:01 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Joey -:- I feel a sermon coming on -:- Mon, Jul 31, 2000 at 04:48:34 (GMT)
__ __ Salam -:- Genuine info from Amaroo: unbelievable!! -:- Sat, Jul 29, 2000 at 15:57:40 (GMT)
__ __ __ G -:- some figures -:- Sat, Jul 29, 2000 at 18:06:46 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Salam -:- some figures -:- Sat, Jul 29, 2000 at 18:44:21 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ SB -:- Or not! -:- Sat, Jul 29, 2000 at 22:34:16 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ G -:- and that doesn't include the Visions sales -:- Sat, Jul 29, 2000 at 18:35:57 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Salam -:- The Ministry of Gum Ji....nt -:- Sat, Jul 29, 2000 at 18:48:41 (GMT)
__ __ Joey -:- J-M, great info!....and Sir Dave.... -:- Sat, Jul 29, 2000 at 13:42:22 (GMT)
__ __ __ Jean-Michel -:- THIS REPORT IS FOR REAL!!!!!!!!! This is no joke! -:- Sat, Jul 29, 2000 at 23:45:09 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Joey -:- THIS REPORT IS FOR REAL!!!!!!!!! This is no joke! -:- Sun, Jul 30, 2000 at 01:04:43 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Zelda -:- How cute!!all THAT for 300 people!including staff! -:- Sun, Jul 30, 2000 at 01:47:22 (GMT)
__ __ __ Rahwhat Gumboot Ghee -:- 'Hello!May I speak to Tammy--Baker...yes' nt -:- Sat, Jul 29, 2000 at 20:40:09 (GMT)
__ Jean-Michel -:- Small correction: Amaroo Day in Miami -:- Sat, Jul 29, 2000 at 07:58:04 (GMT)
__ __ Joe -:- What is 'Amaroo Day?' -:- Sat, Jul 29, 2000 at 17:28:49 (GMT)

la-ex -:- anyone wanna work for chuck nathan? -:- Sat, Jul 29, 2000 at 02:09:59 (GMT)
__ Jim -:- Can I download an application? -:- Sat, Jul 29, 2000 at 02:14:49 (GMT)
__ __ la-ex -:- Can I download an application? -:- Sat, Jul 29, 2000 at 02:27:06 (GMT)
__ __ __ Jim -:- Can I download an application? -:- Sat, Jul 29, 2000 at 02:31:43 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ la-ex -:- Can I download an application? -:- Sat, Jul 29, 2000 at 02:36:11 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Pizza Hut -:- isnt Chuck N the Chucky Cheese Magnate? NT -:- Sat, Jul 29, 2000 at 04:19:07 (GMT)

Jim -:- My email to EV -:- Sat, Jul 29, 2000 at 01:26:06 (GMT)
__ la-ex -:- My email to EV -:- Sat, Jul 29, 2000 at 01:46:22 (GMT)
__ __ Jim -:- I don't nothing about no checklists -:- Sat, Jul 29, 2000 at 02:01:17 (GMT)
__ __ __ Salam -:- Gum ji's balls are poping out of his eyes..nt -:- Sat, Jul 29, 2000 at 18:23:51 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ SB -:- What balls?... LOL (nt) -:- Sun, Jul 30, 2000 at 04:40:57 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Salam -:- How do you say that in Spanish..{Cojones}? -:- Sun, Jul 30, 2000 at 07:01:52 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Bolas -:- BOLAS (nt) -:- Sun, Jul 30, 2000 at 13:18:53 (GMT)

anoder ex -:- DLM/Elan Vital changed only words-funny -:- Fri, Jul 28, 2000 at 22:10:31 (GMT)
__ G -:- discover for themselves? -:- Sat, Jul 29, 2000 at 04:33:09 (GMT)
__ __ SB -:- Rationality left long a go for the deluded -:- Sat, Jul 29, 2000 at 13:45:55 (GMT)
__ SB -:- DLM/Elan Vital JEWEL ABOVE!! Recommended (nt) -:- Sat, Jul 29, 2000 at 03:15:48 (GMT)

la-ex -:- Question to EV,re:EV's Cult checklist -:- Fri, Jul 28, 2000 at 18:27:51 (GMT)
__ Joe -:- Are you sure? -:- Sat, Jul 29, 2000 at 18:54:47 (GMT)
__ Joe -:- Question to EV,re:EV's Cult checklist -:- Fri, Jul 28, 2000 at 19:40:10 (GMT)
__ __ Marianne -:- M squelches criticism -:- Sat, Jul 29, 2000 at 03:57:50 (GMT)
__ __ __ Salam -:- M squelches criticism -:- Sat, Jul 29, 2000 at 19:33:28 (GMT)

Joe -:- Elan Vital the Church -:- Fri, Jul 28, 2000 at 17:24:48 (GMT)
__ Jim -:- Y not just fax the IRS the page from EV's site? -:- Fri, Jul 28, 2000 at 22:45:37 (GMT)
__ __ VP -:- Jim, why don't you fax it? -:- Tues, Aug 01, 2000 at 02:18:27 (GMT)
__ __ Reporting -:- Tax Fraud -:- Sat, Jul 29, 2000 at 03:26:40 (GMT)
__ Joey -:- Joe, or G? -:- Fri, Jul 28, 2000 at 21:04:45 (GMT)
__ __ Joe -:- It's 501 (C) of the Internal Revenue Code -:- Fri, Jul 28, 2000 at 21:58:24 (GMT)
__ __ __ Joey -:- Joe, do you think there's a problem here... -:- Sat, Jul 29, 2000 at 01:31:51 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ G -:- or possessed a copy ... -:- Sat, Jul 29, 2000 at 03:17:14 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Joey -:- or possessed a copy ... -:- Sat, Jul 29, 2000 at 05:53:31 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Joe -:- or possessed a copy ... -:- Sat, Jul 29, 2000 at 17:08:46 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Joey -:- or possessed a copy ... -:- Sat, Jul 29, 2000 at 18:21:50 (GMT)
__ Lakota -:- Elan Vital the Educational Institute -:- Fri, Jul 28, 2000 at 20:00:03 (GMT)
__ __ Lakota -:- Here's the link -:- Fri, Jul 28, 2000 at 20:02:28 (GMT)
__ __ __ G -:- Here's the results -:- Fri, Jul 28, 2000 at 21:59:39 (GMT)
__ Know It All -:- Elan Vital the Church -:- Fri, Jul 28, 2000 at 19:07:48 (GMT)
__ __ cq -:- Church? - but its Charity category ... -:- Sat, Jul 29, 2000 at 11:52:07 (GMT)

Shintaro -:- Thanks -:- Fri, Jul 28, 2000 at 15:17:59 (GMT)
__ Salam -:- I hope it did not affect you sex life..nt -:- Sat, Jul 29, 2000 at 17:21:19 (GMT)
__ Sir Dave -:- Cripes, I'd better remove that site then! -:- Sat, Jul 29, 2000 at 02:00:19 (GMT)
__ S -:- I own a video where m talks bad about drugs -:- Fri, Jul 28, 2000 at 21:05:52 (GMT)
__ Nigel -:- Transparent bullshit -:- Fri, Jul 28, 2000 at 20:55:56 (GMT)
__ __ Selene -:- ha!! it's contagious isn't it Nigel -:- Sat, Jul 29, 2000 at 06:07:34 (GMT)
__ __ He/she was here before -:- Transparent bullshit? Look here -:- Fri, Jul 28, 2000 at 21:19:13 (GMT)
__ __ __ Zelda -:- 'proceed at your own risk -:- Sat, Jul 29, 2000 at 06:55:31 (GMT)
__ Joe -:- What a Pile of Crap.... -:- Fri, Jul 28, 2000 at 17:41:33 (GMT)
__ la-ex -:- Thanks -:- Fri, Jul 28, 2000 at 17:25:07 (GMT)
__ Jim -:- Your boyfriend sounds like a really smart guy (nt) -:- Fri, Jul 28, 2000 at 16:59:43 (GMT)
__ Katie -:- Thanks -:- Fri, Jul 28, 2000 at 16:20:17 (GMT)
__ G -:- Thanks -:- Fri, Jul 28, 2000 at 16:13:38 (GMT)
__ Jethro -:- Don't thank us thank M -:- Fri, Jul 28, 2000 at 15:59:38 (GMT)

Jerry -:- Any regrets? -:- Fri, Jul 28, 2000 at 13:17:46 (GMT)
__ Helen -:- HELL NO, are you kidding? -:- Sat, Jul 29, 2000 at 23:02:34 (GMT)
__ __ Selene -:- you are lucky -:- Sun, Jul 30, 2000 at 01:24:52 (GMT)
__ __ __ Helen -:- Yes I am lucky -:- Sun, Jul 30, 2000 at 01:51:29 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Selene -:- it's a combination for me -:- Sun, Jul 30, 2000 at 01:58:26 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Helen -:- M was a big time drain for all of us.... -:- Sun, Jul 30, 2000 at 21:53:38 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ ham -:- You sound wonderfully assertive, -:- Mon, Jul 31, 2000 at 06:53:16 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- dammit i am still in arizona -:- Mon, Jul 31, 2000 at 00:11:08 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ ham -:- S and M links, this sounds interesting! (nt) -:- Mon, Jul 31, 2000 at 06:49:12 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Stonor -:- S and M links, this sounds interesting! (nt) -:- Mon, Jul 31, 2000 at 16:34:23 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- it IS interesting and also FUN hammy -:- Mon, Jul 31, 2000 at 13:47:56 (GMT)
__ Rated-X -:- Any regrets? -:- Fri, Jul 28, 2000 at 16:10:38 (GMT)
__ __ cq -:- If leaving was easy ... -:- Sat, Jul 29, 2000 at 12:16:08 (GMT)
__ __ Marianne -:- Forum addiction -:- Sat, Jul 29, 2000 at 05:06:35 (GMT)
__ __ Joe -:- You are here because you need support....... -:- Fri, Jul 28, 2000 at 17:52:18 (GMT)
__ __ Jerry -:- Any regrets? -:- Fri, Jul 28, 2000 at 17:18:00 (GMT)
__ AJW -:- There's a little mental parasite on your shoe sir. -:- Fri, Jul 28, 2000 at 15:15:22 (GMT)
__ __ Jerry -:- There's a little mental parasite on your shoe sir. -:- Fri, Jul 28, 2000 at 21:22:30 (GMT)
__ __ __ Lotus Eater -:- That parasite can rot your brain -:- Fri, Jul 28, 2000 at 22:52:03 (GMT)
__ bill -:- Any regrets? -:- Fri, Jul 28, 2000 at 15:11:32 (GMT)
__ __ Helen -:- Any regrets? -:- Sat, Jul 29, 2000 at 22:44:54 (GMT)
__ __ ham -:- Do you feel that cleared it for you Bill? -:- Sat, Jul 29, 2000 at 01:27:57 (GMT)
__ __ __ bill -:- Do you feel that cleared it for you Bill? -:- Sat, Jul 29, 2000 at 04:14:24 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ ham -:- Yeah I thought so, identical, luv ya -:- Sat, Jul 29, 2000 at 04:25:49 (GMT)
__ __ ham -:- Any regrets? -:- Fri, Jul 28, 2000 at 21:41:20 (GMT)
__ __ Gregg -:- Regrets, I've had a few... -:- Fri, Jul 28, 2000 at 18:22:23 (GMT)
__ __ __ Selene -:- Regrets, I've had a few... -:- Sat, Jul 29, 2000 at 05:09:10 (GMT)
__ __ __ bill -:- Regrets, I've had a few... -:- Sat, Jul 29, 2000 at 04:07:10 (GMT)

SB -:- I'm confused: Elan Vital says that maharaji never -:- Fri, Jul 28, 2000 at 10:56:19 (GMT)
__ Joe -:- This is the 'delapitdated' house, by the way. -:- Fri, Jul 28, 2000 at 18:02:31 (GMT)
__ __ SB -:- This is the 'delapitdated' house, by the way. -:- Fri, Jul 28, 2000 at 20:17:29 (GMT)
__ __ __ Salam -:- Yet another 'delapitdated' nice house. -:- Fri, Jul 28, 2000 at 23:22:21 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Joe -:- Miami House -- bullshit -:- Sat, Jul 29, 2000 at 17:53:28 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ G -:- Does anyone know the Miami address? -:- Sat, Jul 29, 2000 at 03:44:56 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ SB -:- Does anyone know the Miami address? -:- Sat, Jul 29, 2000 at 04:21:31 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ G -:- I think so, have a house number? -:- Sat, Jul 29, 2000 at 04:36:28 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ G -:- Anyone have details on his yacht? -:- Sat, Jul 29, 2000 at 03:48:01 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Rob -:- Anyone have details on his yacht? -:- Sun, Jul 30, 2000 at 17:46:51 (GMT)
__ SB -:- sorry, still practicing...LOL (nt) -:- Fri, Jul 28, 2000 at 10:58:44 (GMT)
__ __ Salam -:- SB, while you are experementing, can you tell me -:- Fri, Jul 28, 2000 at 12:21:07 (GMT)
__ __ __ Salam -:- I knew it, must be gum ji. -:- Fri, Jul 28, 2000 at 12:25:37 (GMT)

SB -:- Why MAHARAJI doesn't have his wealth under -:- Fri, Jul 28, 2000 at 10:38:32 (GMT)
__ Katie -:- Life under the US tax code. -:- Fri, Jul 28, 2000 at 16:04:22 (GMT)
__ __ ex book buyer -:- Life under the US tax code. -:- Sat, Jul 29, 2000 at 02:02:40 (GMT)

Salam -:- Ivorys Rock conference Centre(Qld 4306) -:- Fri, Jul 28, 2000 at 10:21:46 (GMT)
__ Katie -:- Ivory Rock Conference Center IS Amaroo -:- Fri, Jul 28, 2000 at 16:52:42 (GMT)
__ __ Salam -:- Amazing....All I have to do is ask!..nt -:- Fri, Jul 28, 2000 at 22:26:22 (GMT)
__ __ Katie -:- Link on Ex-Premie.org -:- Fri, Jul 28, 2000 at 16:55:51 (GMT)
__ G -:- Ivorys Rock conference Centre -:- Fri, Jul 28, 2000 at 16:31:22 (GMT)
__ Crocodile Dundee -:- Hey ,Richard Cranium! -:- Fri, Jul 28, 2000 at 15:40:40 (GMT)

hamzen -:- Porkies bed technique -:- Fri, Jul 28, 2000 at 08:49:33 (GMT)
__ Robyn -:- Porkies bed technique -:- Sat, Jul 29, 2000 at 17:06:47 (GMT)
__ __ ham -:- Good to hear from ya -:- Sun, Jul 30, 2000 at 07:52:05 (GMT)
__ Jim -:- Q: Is God in Human Form just plain ugly? -:- Sat, Jul 29, 2000 at 02:11:18 (GMT)
__ __ ham -:- UUrgh, that gave me the shivers -:- Sat, Jul 29, 2000 at 02:23:03 (GMT)
__ __ __ Jim -:- But why didn't Marolyn ever call me at 3 am? -:- Sat, Jul 29, 2000 at 02:30:59 (GMT)
__ fly on the wall -:- Porkies bed technique -:- Sat, Jul 29, 2000 at 01:43:22 (GMT)
__ __ Nigel -:- Porkies bed technique -:- Sun, Jul 30, 2000 at 16:24:00 (GMT)
__ __ Sir Dave -:- You should know better -:- Sat, Jul 29, 2000 at 02:16:05 (GMT)
__ __ __ fly -:- You should know better -:- Sat, Jul 29, 2000 at 02:34:46 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ hamzen -:- Yeah, but say his pecker's REALLY tiny, -:- Sat, Jul 29, 2000 at 03:00:05 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- It's like a seed.... (nt) -:- Sat, Jul 29, 2000 at 03:06:41 (GMT)
__ __ ham -:- Don't ya just know it -:- Sat, Jul 29, 2000 at 01:58:57 (GMT)
__ __ __ G -:- When/if he can't get it up -:- Sun, Jul 30, 2000 at 15:54:52 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ SB -:- hahahahaha.... -:- Sun, Jul 30, 2000 at 22:46:43 (GMT)
__ __ Jim -:- Thank god for anonymity! -:- Sat, Jul 29, 2000 at 01:56:29 (GMT)
__ Lotus eater -:- Porkies bed technique -:- Fri, Jul 28, 2000 at 22:25:10 (GMT)
__ __ ham -:- You mean like viagra as the holy name! (nt) -:- Sat, Jul 29, 2000 at 01:29:47 (GMT)
__ G -:- driving a tractor -:- Fri, Jul 28, 2000 at 14:33:43 (GMT)


Date: Sat, Jul 29, 2000 at 10:06:02 (GMT)
From: EddyTheTurtle
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Just few general remarks.........
Message:
It seems that M these days is pretty isolated with his tight in-circle buddies..

In the old days (up to the 80's) access was no problem, and my guess is that 100's of people had direct access to him...were able to communicate with him etc

Now it seems that he is very much isolated from his own premies even, showing up at few video events per year if that...

The old days of spending sunday digging up the residence plot of land so that these magical 1 Kg colliflowers grow are gone...'quote from the ex-gardner at the residence'

Wonder what happened to old charanand....last time I met him ...and I have not seen him for years before that...he asked me for a 1000 dollar loan...bet he has no access to M anymore...

Well the more isolated he gets , the more cut off he will be from his own reality....what is so bad about speaking about God anymore..does it not pay to speak about God...maybe its not cool and the return on investment is not too good...poor God..no one pays him any dues anymore...

One thing I have noticed is that the closer people have tried to get to M in the past, like initiators, etc , M would suddenly chaneg the rules of the game, like no more initiators, or no more ashrams or no more DLM or no more...whatever....keeps everyone guessing and keeps everyone out of the inner circle...

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Date: Sat, Jul 29, 2000 at 21:46:09 (GMT)
From: X
Email: None
To: EddyTheTurtle
Subject: Just few general remarks.........
Message:
>Wonder what happened to old charanand....last time I met him ...and I have not seen him for years before that...he asked me for a 1000 dollar loan...bet he has no access to M anymore...

89 is a long while back
you are out of touch with what Charanand is up to
Have you listened to his guitar song on the Drifting CD?

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Date: Sun, Jul 30, 2000 at 01:27:30 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: X
Subject: I listened to Drifting once
Message:
Tried to give it away here and no one wanted it.
Lots of remakes of the old songs with the new K-lite lyrics.
'serenity' was kinda good if one can ignore the mental image of Daya slinking around on stage and singing it to her father.
No thanks.
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Date: Sat, Jul 29, 2000 at 17:31:59 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: EddyTheTurtle
Subject: Just Curious.....
Message:
When did Charanand ask you for the loan? Did he say what he needed the money for? What was his source of income at that time? Was he still an initiator?
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Date: Sat, Jul 29, 2000 at 17:40:18 (GMT)
From: EddyTheTurtle
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Just Curious.....
Message:
It was in '89 and I believe he was living in Miami in a flat. He was on his way to Italy when I met him and drove him round. I guess he must still have been an initiator.
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Date: Sat, Jul 29, 2000 at 14:07:17 (GMT)
From: hamzen
Email: None
To: EddyTheTurtle
Subject: In other words a paranoid control freak?
Message:
As he gets older he's getting more & more like Howard Hughes.

What an empty sad and isolated life, no wonder he's desperate to appreciate nature, that's probably the only thing he's got left.

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Date: Sun, Jul 30, 2000 at 17:10:58 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: fitzroy@liverpool.ac.uk
To: hamzen
Subject: In other words a paranoid control freak?
Message:
That was exactly what I was thinking. Hughes was a serious hypochondriac and Maharji has a fear of germs, according to past posts here. Several people who have spent time around M have mentioned how he hates to have to open doors for himself for fear of contamination. And both men were/are obscenely rich and reclusive. So perhaps the comparison is apt.
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Date: Mon, Jul 31, 2000 at 16:40:44 (GMT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: In other words a paranoid control freak?
Message:
Hi Nig, you scouser! :)
I agree about the germs thing. I know a man who use to be a PAM and he says the same about m.
I think he has a love(need rather)/hate relationship with premies. Gotta go work! :)
Love and miss you,
Robyn
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Date: Sun, Jul 30, 2000 at 22:35:39 (GMT)
From: ham
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: Mapping the prawns psychology
Message:
Thanx for that Nigel, missed those posts, always good to get confirmation.

Think we're very warm to his off-stage persona, do you have any guesses as to the best way to wind him up?
I'm working on the crude assumption that he can't stand having the piss taken out of him, I suspect that that, more than anything, is likely to wind him up and get him to lose his rag.

Think I need to see a video soon, to see how much of that stuff is leaking through on stage.
Wanna work out if he's so arrogant he's blown all his dosh because he assumed it was going to go on for ever. Do you think he's still dependent on premies, premie companies etc, or do you reckon he's been a bit wise and been putting aside for rainy days, investing in the stock market etc. Without that info difficult to know just how rattled he is.

Will e-mail ya soon, got such a backlog that I think I need an e-mail day! Some things about the internet ain't so hot. Can't believe I'm writing what are basically letters again, so fucking time consuming without voice activated wp.

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Date: Mon, Jul 31, 2000 at 13:59:04 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: fitzroy@liverpool.ac.uk
To: ham
Subject: Phlegm Rat is a prawn
Message:
I think M was probably wealthy enough twenty years ago to never need any future income, provided he invested it safely. But if you remember that recent 'it isn't easy being rich, you know' satsang where he says you have to have a second million to protect the first million, etc...

Greed carries its own momentum, and though M will never die on skid row hanging off the end of his cognac bottle, I doubt he will ever be satisfied with whatever he has accumulated. Though, come to think of it, he may not be in the billionaire league if you remember what Mishler said about his phenomenal ability to squander fortunes on expensive toys.

As to winding him up? I am sure taking the piss is by FAR the most effective way to procede. Deep down he may know unconsciously just how ridiculous he looks to the man in the street and can't bear to be reminded - especially by those who used to indulge him in his Lord-of-th-Universe fantasies.

(There may be some online MP3 music very soon from the little-known or understood modern Merseybeat duo, Loaf'n'Larkin.. watch this space!)

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Date: Mon, Jul 31, 2000 at 07:06:59 (GMT)
From: ham
Email: None
To: ham
Subject: Nigel,the latest news almost answers one of my q'
Message:

Cutting Edge's news above, where he's admitting there's no juju, shows he's really rattled, and since we know spreading k worldwide is hardly a priority for him, far too many other interests, like immersing himself in his $2m studio producing crap musak, then almost for definite he hasn't saved and invested big time, am I being dense and missing something?

With that and the ackowledgements of lying, 'but so what', means almost for definite he's almost lost the plot.
At this rate reckon he's down to at least half his income from the previous thirty years. The tester will be when he's got to start dumping stuff like the jet etc. I reckon it could be about five more years.

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Date: Sun, Jul 30, 2000 at 18:23:11 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: clean freak
Message:
Mahahaji is a total clean freak. I 'participated' in cleaning some places where he was going to stay and everything 'had' to be totally spotless. It was to 'protect his health', he's soo important, you know. The way it was put, it wasn't that he feared germs (how could he, he's God), that wasn't even brought up, but that he recognized how important he was. It's so easy to have everything be clean and tidy when you have other people doing it for you.

I saw the poor guy actually have to open a door for himself because the premies were busy discussing who was going to open it for him. There was a very unpleasant look on his face, like he was really pissed off. At the time I put a spin on it in my head, thinking 'Oh, he's teaching us'. That he had a fear of germs never occurred to me. It very well could be.

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Date: Sun, Jul 30, 2000 at 22:39:58 (GMT)
From: ham
Email: None
To: G
Subject: What a sad fucker he is (nt)
Message:
a
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Date: Mon, Jul 31, 2000 at 03:27:43 (GMT)
From: Zelda
Email: None
To: ham
Subject: Winding up a Sagitarian god-man Gumanji
Message:
Sag constructs a force field of good natured benevolence for the public eye. The fact is that they are very good natured naturally so that is easy.
To 'get him to blow it' you have to make him angry so he puts his foot in his mouth or screws up publically. Of course it will be someone elses fault and he will be full of contrition- but it is not too easy for him to loose his temper or let some of it 'leak' in public.

Yu can be sure he is doing his homework on how to make the other side appear guilty or out for material gain. Trouble is that he is no good at doing this homework.
He is not very thourogh because he thinks that a show of nobel intention should be a replacement for finding out the facts.

(I thnk this was illustrated by how he got those lawyers to help him take the sites off the net- they must have known better)

Needs to be goaded before he will show how skitzed out he is.
The videos of him after a long trip show him very very sloppy in his delivery.
hTe great thing about Sag is that they are master at perfecting a mirror image of themselves and label it as the other persons problem. This can make them violently angry ESPECIALLY if a third party is there to wittness their justified anger.

The presene of the third party/s is a key factor. they do not like to loose face. The third party is the premie masses.

Gumanji fits this profile to a T

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Date: Mon, Jul 31, 2000 at 15:50:14 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Zelda
Subject: No, Zelda, no. You don't want to go there
Message:
Zelda,

Astrology's empty nonsense.

AND, I've got more bad news: it's 'lose' not 'loose'.

Sorry

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Date: Mon, Jul 31, 2000 at 12:37:09 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: fitzroy@liverpool.ac.uk
To: Zelda
Subject: Excuse me, but I'm a Sagittarius, too...
Message:
...or at least I would be, if I believed in that crap :)
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Date: Sat, Jul 29, 2000 at 18:05:39 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: hamzen
Subject: Gurucharanand.
Message:
He gave me knowledge. There was a thread few weeks about him, he apperantly is still around, wanted to marry, but gum ji said no because it did not suit him. I just can not believe he is still with gum ji, unless he wants it that way, because he has not got anywhere else to turn to. Like you said it is sad.
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Date: Sat, Jul 29, 2000 at 18:18:42 (GMT)
From: Lurkex
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: Gurucharanand.
Message:
Gurucharanand wanted to marry and Lardy wouldn't let him. That really sucks. He was, as he was fond of saying, just a 'poor simple boi (rhymes with 'moi')' when Lardy saved him and told him the meaning of his life (Lardy). Think what he must have gone through, to come to the point of wanting to marry. A very kind soul.

So who the hell is Lardy to tell anyone whether or not they can marry? What kind of 'teacher' is that? What kind of old Hindu shit does that smack of? Thought all that stuff was just remnants from India and the 70's. I think this is a pretty hot question to EV. Not that they are available to answer questions. But I bet MJ thinks he can get away with this kind of shit with highly programmed Indian devotees and that the likes of us will never find out. I think this is a big f––ing elephant in the satsang (sorry video) room!

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Date: Sat, Jul 29, 2000 at 22:16:24 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: Lurkex
Subject: Gurucharanand.
Message:
Yes, but in maharaji's world is a blessing to follow your guru agya! He feels so, so especial, I bet...Charanand enjoys all of his life, all of it. A 'true devotee'. Yack!

He feels divine...LOL

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Date: Sat, Jul 29, 2000 at 19:22:55 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Lurkex
Subject: Served him right
Message:
Gurucharanand was as fake as fake can be. We were all suckers for his 'kind noble' expression. He knew it and played it to the hilt. So he wasn't able to marry, contrary to all his many, many years of cheer-leading for and mentoring of total, slavish devotion?

Too fucking bad.

I note he hasn't submitted a 'Journey' yet.

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Date: Sat, Jul 29, 2000 at 18:29:15 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Lurkex
Subject: That shows you how lonly Gurucharanand was
Message:
feeling. I must say I liked the fellow.
But I was wondering how was he going to pay for the $1000 loan. Maybe he wanted to send it his mother!!??
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Date: Sat, Jul 29, 2000 at 20:27:07 (GMT)
From: Zelda
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: To GURUCHARANAND: You can get married. NT
Message:
nt
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Date: Sat, Jul 29, 2000 at 20:35:35 (GMT)
From: EddyTheTurtle
Email: None
To: Zelda
Subject: To GURUCHARANAND: You can get married. NT
Message:
I know that when I met him in 89 he had a lady friend..it was cute because he wanted to buy her a coat for a present. He was very excited about his flat in Miami and was telling me about the tennis court and buying cutlimery for his kitchen...I never saw him like that before...he was dressed in a business suite and went shopping for another...

I guess the marriage thing must have been about that time...he must be getting on now...

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Date: Tues, Aug 01, 2000 at 05:03:01 (GMT)
From: Zelda
Email: None
To: EddyTheTurtle
Subject: To GURUCHARANAND: You can get married. NT
Message:
too bad. If his friend is reading this - 'now is a good time to go back girl'

go ahead, call him! You have our blessings.
Zelda

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Date: Sat, Jul 29, 2000 at 20:46:26 (GMT)
From: Zelda
Email: None
To: EddyTheTurtle
Subject: To GURUCHARANAND: You can get married. NT
Message:
He is getting on but he is handsome. If she is still around he wouldnt take much coaxing. He seems like another Indian who got taken on the Disneyland Ride called 'Shaft'.

She should ring him on his cell phone. Mahahaha's trip may have a short shelf life and Gurucharananand doesnt need to have given up the love of his life for this faulty import.

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Date: Sun, Jul 30, 2000 at 04:47:00 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Zelda
Subject: TheGURUCHARANAND Get Married Support Campaign..nt
Message:
n
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Date: Sat, Jul 29, 2000 at 07:44:44 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Genuine info from Amaroo: unbelievable!!
Message:
just got this from one of my spies .....

++++++++++++++++

Debriefing: Amaroo 2000 Day

Finance:
The total attendance was 323.
$19,086 contributed that will be matched.
An additional $1,359 was donated at the event, plus $ 3,080 in future donations, plus $350 to cover the costs for putting on the event. Those costs were $1,986. Monies raised at the event will cover all costs for the event. Everyone performed wonderfully to keep expenses down yet not compromising on quality.

Visions:
Vision Sales in Miami were the largest of any community in the US, totaling $1900. Strengths of the Visions area included great team, attention to design and display of area, shared responsibility for tasks among team members, lots of gratitude. Cooperation between areas in lobby was also appreciated. Open to feedback from other team members for suggestions on ways to improve.

Staging:
Staging and upholstery could use additional personnel. It is a very small group right now, adequate for an event like the Amaroo day, but still a little stretched. Personnel needed would ideally have sewing and upholstery background.

Facility:
Recruitment: Process of recruiting and working within team very enjoyable. Relationship between other areas needs improvement. Sometimes other areas would borrow facility staff. Didn’t create a large problem this event and be conscious of using own personnel as much as possible. Security reported to be spaced out on stage right.

Strengths in facility area of great team Area manager said he now feels like part of team, not area manager. Worked to develop communications system through Internet so all involved in Facility Area, and EM were informed of developments.

City Contact:
Referenced the great opportunity this event afforded us to practice for an event with him. Feeling in room so beautiful. Encouraged all to continue to put this quality, consciousness into our local events.

Ushers:
Usher Team acknowledged great team support. Went through the manual and highlighted sections that ushers needed to focus on. Said team was really concentrated, alert all the time, really event was a “Great team effort.” Said many ushers are quite experienced now, a feeling like they “owned the service”, a love and understanding of the service. Increasingly professional staff.
Note Victoria has requested to be part of Lobby design Team for next event. Really happy to be part of event management team.

Security:
Requested we schedule all meetings the last week of the month prior, in order to maintain good pr with MBWC e.g., schedule by the last week of November for meetings needed for the month of December. Along these lines, Joyce Firestone requested more research on possible halls for meetings.
Manager cited strengths of great team, a lot of cooperation between areas. Needs additional personnel. Also, noted that problems with security do not necessarily come from outside, and everyone needs to participate in watching their own belongings.

Productions:
Rick Spears raised issue timing of event? Early start time necessitated going in one day in advance, doing set up, and take down twice. Plus no place to really secure equipment. Also, problems with equipment were noted. Mixer was not working properly. Problems with sound, projector, cables. Had great time, though, high level of quality and accomplishment among productions players. Really like a large event with director, tech. Rehearsal, dress rehearsal, and that kind of learning that takes place at event w/M. Others from EM also acknowledged the excellent job accomplished by the productions team for this event.

Logistics:
Bill M. said for this event they used 2 local vans for transport. Said there was great teamwork in area and between logistics and other areas. Facility, Information, Visions etc. supported logistics. Had a lot of help and really appreciated that so many managers came to the warehouse and pulled their own supplies.
Moving into an email mode for inventory requests to handle communications about what is needed.
Issue of safety addressed, and requested that someone be assigned to this area to handle emergencies that might arise. Right now, he is doing this by default because he brings safety equipment to events, but overseeing this should not be a logistics concern.

Contributions:
Ana Rico/Kathy Cooksey referenced large contributions presence and nice set up of event.
Next time would like briefing from the resource team prior to event. Also, need for additional training of staff seen.

Scheduling:
Overall felt role was very well defined. Made lots of notes. Template will be more accurate for next time. Gave specific recommendations for production, a/v, and staging areas:
Due to hurricane the hotel was running behind on Saturday, this meant late setting risers for stage, and late for genie lift. Also, there was a smell in the lobby.

Sound co: There was a mix-up in delivery time. Arrived at 12, but was on schedule for 1., Security, therefore had not yet arrived.

Video Projector: arrived late on Sat. Held up testing and setting up videos, focusing

Mixer: 2 mixers were requested, 1 arrived very late, 3pm. Same person had videos needed to test video projector

A/V area: Short staffed, only 1 sound person and 1 video person. 2 were needed of each.

Fabric: On Sat., fabric was cut for floors of stage. Scheduler brought it to attention on Sunday AM but when it didn’t happen, failed to remind again

Videos: In future, time them in advance. Markings on box were not accurate.

Noise: Buzzing noise on left side of room, from ceiling was distracting

Hotel Liaison:
COMMUNICATIONS: The quality of communication among all areas can be raised, as well as between individuals. There were some gaps that, fortunately, could be pieced together. Communications with productions was the best it has been thus far. Great management from productions area. Suggestion of developing a flow of communication of sorts, who to keep informed about what, etc.

She appreciated the lobby design and designer. Salvador took responsibility for this area and it worked very well. It made the job for the event liaison easier. Vickie's offering to help with the lobby design for the next event to help with traffic flow was most welcome.

Noted that anyone who is involved with event liaison, must attend the walk through, aw well as be available for any time there is a “move-in” to communicate with the hall/hotel, and needs of people who are moving in.

INSPIRATION: This always raises the level of excellence and willingness to go the distance.

National Event Manager:
Ted Levitt noted the level of detail and care present in doing service for M. Observed caring, respect, wanting to be synchronized with one another. Feels we have taken on responsibility, all are accountable. Feeling of being taken out of a small place, and going into a deeper place. We are learning, somehow, how to be a part of M.s team.

A/V:
Angel mentioned that equipment is not suitable. We need back up equipment for many things. There were lots of loose ends at conclusion of event. Areas need to stay till end and make sure everything is taken care of. Maybe there needs to be a “closure” team to finish take down of event so that A/V area doesn’t end up filling that role. Also, there needs to be security presence till the end of the event.

Event Manager:
Incredible for the most part. Inspiring to witness responsiveness to M. not seen anywhere else. Genuineness of team noted, and doing things with such care. Appreciated the efforts of everyone. Some communications worked very well, for example email communication system developed by facility team. Really liked being kept in the loop of communications happening within different areas. Some confusion in transition from resource team to local team.

Lobby Manager:
More contact with all managers in the lobby area, to fill in gaps and facilitate whatever is requested. Sees that distribution of tables in different areas is important. Next time there is a program for PWK only, sees need for reception table in lobby area.
Grateful to M, for this great opportunity.

Information:
Martha Shishido comments the event was inspirational. To improve, said at the time of set up of tables, we should close off the area we are using with ropes This would be to prevent people that are not going to be involved in the event from coming in, asking questions, and disrupting the focus of set up. Also, table placement could be improved. A couple of people that had nothing to do with the event showed up and walked through the hallway and stood at the headset table, insisting on entering the event. Info explained event was not open to the public. PR or reception table might help with this in future.

Mailing:
Information needs to be given for mailing in a timely manner Great team, actual mailing process was very smooth.

Communications:
Would like recommendation of another person to work with in communications area, need of this locally as well. Also has need of this locally as we are expanding the communications area. Really enjoyed working with. EM, appreciated her responsiveness, accessibility. Needs to practice with FC. Also, would like more communication with EM team. Area and role of communication needs development. Hopes we can do this kind of effort in the future, learning that took place was very deep.

Translation:
Need to learn to prioritize, organize. Lots of details happening in translation at the same time. Great to have videos in advance; also translation booth was comfortable, very good teamwork. Proper equipment and proper usage of equipment still an issue. This is something you can put whole heart into. Training for translators is going to be provided, and also to get more people involved in the service

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Date: Sat, Jul 29, 2000 at 13:14:27 (GMT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: sirdavid12@hotmail.com
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Genuine info from Amaroo: unbelievable!!
Message:
That's quite unbelievable. I thought it was all a joke at first until I suddenly realised this was for real!

Some items which caught my eye:


'shared responsibility for tasks among team members, lots of gratitude'

Lovely sick making platitude there.


'could use additional personnel'

Everybody's leaving the cult.


'continue to put this quality consciousness into our local events'

Sounds like another cult platitude being well used.


'Also, there was a smell in the lobby'

That was just the premies. Eliminate them and it'll go away.


'Sound co: There was a mix-up in delivery time. Arrived at 12, but was on schedule for 1., Security, therefore had not yet arrived'

Phew, that was a close call! That army of ex-premies waiting outside might have stolen the master tape of the Perfect One's broadcast.


'A couple of people that had nothing to do with the event showed up and walked through the hallway and stood at the headset table, insisting on entering the event'

Looks like the ex-premie advertising is paying off. Or was that you and Jim?


'The quality of communication among all areas can be raised, as well as between individuals'

That's an impossible task. How can premies be expected to communicate with each other when they exist on a diet of Maharaji's drivel and cult platitudes?


'we should close off the area we are using with ropes'

Naa! That won't stop Jim. He can just duck under them. Better to use a hardened steel fence.


'Buzzing noise on left side of room, from ceiling was distracting'

That was our ex-premie surveillance equipment. They haven't noticed it yet.


'learning that took place was very deep.'

I can see that. What knowledge these people have!

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Date: Sun, Jul 30, 2000 at 06:53:50 (GMT)
From: ham
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: Most rib crackingly funniest post for the week
Message:
Thank you Sir D,

oh and give the Rev a big hug and hello from me when you see him next

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Date: Mon, Jul 31, 2000 at 01:44:29 (GMT)
From: Rev John Hammond-Smyth
Email: tea@vicarage.com
To: ham
Subject: I feel a sermon coming on
Message:
Thank you my son. I think I will have something to say in my next sermon about 'The Church of Defunct Avatars' and the scourge of idol worship therein. Also I may say something about the strange practices and rituals performed in that church, such as, 'Watching over the sound equipment' and 'Abiding by the cheese'.

As you know, the doors to my church are always open and I have no need to rope off my congregation from people outside. There is no smell in my pews, save that of the flowers that Mrs Higginbottom brings every Sunday and people do not have to insist on being let in, for they are welcomed with open arms.

God bless all members of the one true church, that is called Love.

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Date: Mon, Jul 31, 2000 at 06:02:01 (GMT)
From: ham
Email: None
To: Rev John Hammond-Smyth
Subject: And I say, Amen to that!
Message:
Rev, are you out of your cell now, and recovering from realizing knowledge?
You sound so light, it's wonderful to hear so much sunshine & laughter in your voice.
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Date: Mon, Jul 31, 2000 at 04:48:34 (GMT)
From: Joey
Email: None
To: Rev John Hammond-Smyth
Subject: I feel a sermon coming on
Message:
Thank you, dear Reverand!

And please, whenever you feel its appropriate, a few words about 'auto-knowledge'...to lift our spirits :::)))

God Bless !

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Date: Sat, Jul 29, 2000 at 15:57:40 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: Genuine info from Amaroo: unbelievable!!
Message:
I have taken the liberty to work out some figures out of the following:

Finance:
The total attendance was 323.
$19,086 contributed that will be matched.
An additional $1,359 was donated at the event, plus $ 3,080 in future donations, plus $350 to cover the costs for putting on the event. Those costs were $1,986.

------------------------------------------

Total contributions=19086+1359+308+350=$21,103
Cost.........................................=$1,986
nett.........................................=$2,1453

-----------------------------------------
How many staff were involved?
Were they paid?
-----------------------------------------
Average contribution for 323 people=21103/323=$66.42

The fact that somebody says that this is a gift. Gift. Meaning, it is being given-freely-to you. This is not a trade, you know? This is not a trade, but, just think about it, { if you want it, it will cost you 66.42 US dollers and that is on special}

Amaroo, Australia
16 April 2000

P.s.:Note Victoria has requested to be part of Lobby design Team for next event.

is this referening to Victoria in Australia!!!???

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Date: Sat, Jul 29, 2000 at 18:06:46 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: some figures
Message:
If you include the matching contributions,
which are probably from rich PAMs whose
have benefitted from premie labor:

19,086 contributed
19,086 matching contributions
 1,359 donated at the event
 3,080 in future donations
   350 to cover the costs
------
42,961 total money obtained from the PWKies
-1,986 cost
------
40,975 PROFIT

And Rawat didn't even have to attend!

I doubt very much if the staff were paid, remember,
this is an 'opportunity to server the Master', they
get paid in gratitude and that love, that peace,
that clarity, that synchronized mind set,
and all that stuff.

Victoria is one of the 'volunteers' who is begging
to 'participate' in the 'Lobby design Team', and
that's Team with a capital T. If she can just be
part of that Great Team, she will feel so important.

This fundraiser, disguised as what sounds like a
dress rehearsal for a surprise visit from Rawat
(which will probably never happen) took place in Miami.

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Date: Sat, Jul 29, 2000 at 18:44:21 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: G
Subject: some figures
Message:
That is what I could not figure out, the matching part. There must be some real fat cats out there to do this. Sounds like those people that benefit from wars [can not remember the name]. Offcourse that puts a higher bid on the price of knowledge ($163).
I hope that Victoria does not get her nickers soacked wanting to join the 'A', sorry the 'T' team. Stupid maggot.
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Date: Sat, Jul 29, 2000 at 22:34:16 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: Or not!
Message:
Think about it. Psychology is a game that Elan Vital plays well. The possibility that 'generous contributors' would match any donations can work wonders: It motivates premies to donate more. Maybe there were no 'matchers'.
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Date: Sat, Jul 29, 2000 at 18:35:57 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: G
Subject: and that doesn't include the Visions sales
Message:
Was the $1,900 in Visions sales just for that
day in Miami? That's what it sounds like.
The remark about the Vision sales being the
highest in the US sounds like a competition
to see who bought the most. I remember being
in that mind set years ago, wanting the pride
in being in the community that 'donated' the most.
We were told how much each community 'donated'.

What a racket, manipulating people's emotional
feelings of competition, pride, and superiority,
all in the name of religion. Oh, I forgot,
Elan Vital is not a religion, even though it's
registered as a church with the IRS.

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Date: Sat, Jul 29, 2000 at 18:48:41 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: G
Subject: The Ministry of Gum Ji....nt
Message:
nmt
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Date: Sat, Jul 29, 2000 at 13:42:22 (GMT)
From: Joey
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: J-M, great info!....and Sir Dave....
Message:
...I just loved your play by play color analysis !

I really needed the laugh too. I slept rotten last nite. I had a nightmare that I was trapped at one of these special pwkie events.

Thanks for helping me start my day a little better. LOL man, LOL! :::))

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Date: Sat, Jul 29, 2000 at 23:45:09 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Joey
Subject: THIS REPORT IS FOR REAL!!!!!!!!! This is no joke!
Message:
That's a typical EV report made by the event's managers, and destined to Mr Speaker ....... believe it or not ! I still own some copies of reports made in France for Him too, same kind of BS !!!!!!!

But that one is something else .......

I guess there is no other place in the world where you could find that sort of stuff !!!!!!!!

Great job mister mole ......... You deserve a special medal for that one!!

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Date: Sun, Jul 30, 2000 at 01:04:43 (GMT)
From: Joey
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: THIS REPORT IS FOR REAL!!!!!!!!! This is no joke!
Message:
Hey J-M, I DID say 'great info'! No doubt the report is for real and I agree, a very special kudos to your 'mister mole'.

What I did find rather humourous was Sir Dave's commentary, and almost as much as appreciated as the report itself.

Maybe even more, given my rather unhumourous mood when I got outta bed this morning. His post just made me laugh and I kinda needed that. Hope you understand.

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Date: Sun, Jul 30, 2000 at 01:47:22 (GMT)
From: Zelda
Email: None
To: Joey
Subject: How cute!!all THAT for 300 people!including staff!
Message:
NT
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Date: Sat, Jul 29, 2000 at 20:40:09 (GMT)
From: Rahwhat Gumboot Ghee
Email: None
To: Tammy
Subject: 'Hello!May I speak to Tammy--Baker...yes' nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Sat, Jul 29, 2000 at 07:58:04 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Small correction: Amaroo Day in Miami
Message:
Looks like this is a report from a program called 'Amaroo Day' that happened in Miami.

323 participants only !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Anybody been there ?

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Date: Sat, Jul 29, 2000 at 17:28:49 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: What is 'Amaroo Day?'
Message:
Was it a fundraiser for Amaroo?
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Date: Sat, Jul 29, 2000 at 02:09:59 (GMT)
From: la-ex
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: anyone wanna work for chuck nathan?
Message:
Just heard last week that our old buddy chuck nathan is starting a new business in miami.it seems that it is probably an offshoot of the book business, as he called someone I know and asked if he was interested.
chuck said that it involved dealing with book companies and publishers and that the candidate had to be a shrewd and tough negotiator.
Anyone wanna call ole chuck?
Jim or Joe-you guys might be qualified...
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Date: Sat, Jul 29, 2000 at 02:14:49 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: la-ex
Subject: Can I download an application?
Message:
I would love to work for someone as esteemed as Mr. Nathan. It would be an honour. Indeed, I would do it for a mere honorarium. I might even volunteer.

Where do I apply?

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Date: Sat, Jul 29, 2000 at 02:27:06 (GMT)
From: la-ex
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Can I download an application?
Message:
seriously,Jim, why don't you call up Mr. Nathan and request an interview?
He might even fly you down to miami beach for a 'power lunch' at the Broadripple...
Toll free number for amtext is 1-800-845-4646.
I think his secretary's name is Lisa...
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Date: Sat, Jul 29, 2000 at 02:31:43 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: la-ex
Subject: Can I download an application?
Message:
Maybe I will ....
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Date: Sat, Jul 29, 2000 at 02:36:11 (GMT)
From: la-ex
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Can I download an application?
Message:
Why not?
Maybe you could open a canadian branch for amtext...
and then...maybe go to the res!!!!
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Date: Sat, Jul 29, 2000 at 04:19:07 (GMT)
From: Pizza Hut
Email: None
To: la-ex
Subject: isnt Chuck N the Chucky Cheese Magnate? NT
Message:
NT
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Date: Sat, Jul 29, 2000 at 01:26:06 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: My email to EV
Message:
I just sent the following email to all the various email addresses listed on EV's 'contact' page:

Hi fellas,

I've read your new FAQ which states, amongst other things, that 'Elan Vital upholds the spirit of tolerance and openness throughout the organization....'. This, I find, rather humorous given how difficult it is to reach any of you on the phone. You know? From the top down it seems as if EV has something of a bunker mentality. I've left several messages for Maharaji, this person or that but no one ever calls back. I've emailed, sent registered mail. Nothing.

So now you guys have put together a 'press kit'. That's where I got your phone number, after all. I take it that means you're inviting some sort of public inquiries and not just about where someone can watch an introductory video. So why can't you be reached? What's THAT about?

See, I have a few media contacts of my own who'd like to discuss a few things with you all. Maybe even write a word or two. So, please, can you tell me the real number I can call to discuss this?

In the spirit of tolerance and openness,

Jim Heller
(250) 360-1040

Maybe someone else might want to try to tickle the sphinx too.

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Date: Sat, Jul 29, 2000 at 01:46:22 (GMT)
From: la-ex
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: My email to EV
Message:
Hey Jim-if you get any contact with the 'fellas'('goodfellas?'), would you consider asking them about their new 'cult checklist'?
You can check out my post below to catch my drift..
Thanks
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Date: Sat, Jul 29, 2000 at 02:01:17 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: la-ex
Subject: I don't nothing about no checklists
Message:
Sorry, la-ex, I don't know nothin 'bout dat. I'm just trying to set up a press conference, you know?
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Date: Sat, Jul 29, 2000 at 18:23:51 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Gum ji's balls are poping out of his eyes..nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Sun, Jul 30, 2000 at 04:40:57 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: What balls?... LOL (nt)
Message:
no balls!
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Date: Sun, Jul 30, 2000 at 07:01:52 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: SB
Subject: How do you say that in Spanish..{Cojones}?
Message:
nt
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Date: Sun, Jul 30, 2000 at 13:18:53 (GMT)
From: Bolas
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: BOLAS (nt)
Message:
bolas
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Date: Fri, Jul 28, 2000 at 22:10:31 (GMT)
From: anoder ex
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: DLM/Elan Vital changed only words-funny
Message:
DLM got a makeup and became Elan Vital, but haven't changed much.

1- In the 70s service was free labor and later became 'participation', still free labor.

2- DLM's goal was to make maharaji rich,to propagate knowledge, today, it has changed a lot, to propagate knowledge: His greed has grown inmensely. Big changes are noticed here.LOL

3- Premies on the 70s used to create companies/businesses to generate income to support DLM/maharaji, today, premies still have all kind companies/businesses, even phony ones, to create more wealth for maharaji, IN THE NAME OF PROPAGATION.

4- In the 70s people were coherced same way than today to donate big greens to Maharaji monthly. TO SUPPORT PROPAGATION.

The story remains the same; all is about 'propagating knowledge', but the guru became greedier and worse too. That haven't changed yet either. His eyes were not shining on those days of 'holy' joy but by greed..LOL. He always had big plans. That haven't yet changed either. You'll see bellow.

What follows was extracted from a newsletter dated January 1-15, Vol. 1 Issue 12, from DLM (Elan vital today) Pittsburgh, PA headquarters to US communities to request financial participation. This newsletter has many columns and all of them request $participation$. Here is parts of it.

COMMUNITY EDUCATION WORKSHOPS

'Everything has to be put together to make the big picture. It's such a big picture, we can't paint it on one canvas, so we paint it on different canvases, and then we put it together and it looks gorgeous.'

-Guru Maharaj Ji-

In developing the Aspirant Program we've seen the need to develop our own understanding. During his recent visit to International Headquarters, Maharaj Ji continually stressed the need for all premies to understand what he is doing in their lives. He indicated that one unclear premie could confuse thousands, and used the word... maturity to describe the way he wishes us to grow in the practice of Knowledge.

We see this process of understanding and maturity an being ongoing and continuous part of our lives. However, for the first time we are consciously building into the community organization the structure to facilitate this process. We are recognizing that our community exists to further the growth of consciousness. ($$$) a slip, sorry.

As part of this process, we will be starting a series of community workshops. They will be held once each week in each CAC area. If you are called by Dena, you will be attending series 'A', Tricia - series 'B'. or Gary - series 'C'. The schedule is printed in the satsang schedule section of this newsletter.

THE EDUCATIONAL APPROACH

In understanding many of the programs Divine Light Mission will be conducting over the coming year, it is necessary for us to understand a basic new approach underlying them all. We call this approach the 'educational approach' and yet this does not mean educational in the sense of college lectures and tons of texts books. As a matter of fact, it is quite the reverse.

The educational approach develops structures which allow people to discover for themselves the truth about a situation. For example, in a Meditation Discussion Series, instead of telling people what is the perfect point to concentrate upon, we have written a series of discussion questions which will help people come to the same conclusion for themselves. Or in a premie workshop, instead of talking a lot about satsang, we will try and get beyond the word itself to a meaning that is consistent with each premie's experience, through a form which would allow for more interaction between people in their communication.

The essence of the approach is that what we really need to know is already there; and through a certain process we can come to a greater awareness of what already exists. We have too many people too often; parroted our Perfect Master without
understanding his words ourselves. We're finally beginning to see that love just doesn't work that way.

Fundraising

We'd like to get a hall by February to accommodate the new aspirants as well as our ever-expanding satsang attendance. This and other programs we are hoping to expand over 1976(particularly the expanded Aspirant Program) will require a greater and more consistent financial support from the whole community. A continuous program of fundraising will be needed to supplement the base of community fund donations in meeting out costs of propagation and community development.

Our approach to fundraising will be to create avenues for premies to do service which will generate income for DLM (Divine Light Mission, presently known as Elan Vital) in contrast to film benefits, and dinners which raise money out of the premies' own pockets, which don't seem to be too full these days. For January, for example, we're planning a rummage sale, a coffee house at the university, and a concessions operations around the colleges.Stay in touch for details on how you can plug in.

2000 Same, same...JM's site can clarify the similarities...
http://www.ex-premie.org/papers/indian.htm

A highlight of another section of the same newsletter, called 'Aspirant Program'.

In the first sesssion of the 7-week Knowledge Seminar, an aspirant will be explained about out nightly satsang programs at the ashrams. Before this time, he will have no contact with these programs. From this point onward however, he will be encouraged to attend as much satsang as possible, in that it is the only way to prepare for Knowledge. The Knowledge Seminar will be an aid in calrifying the apsects of this path, such as Satsang, Meditation, the Perfect Master, hamsters, etc., but is no way a substitute for nightly satsang in the preparations for an aspirant....

to be brainwashed enough to receive Knowledge. You must listen to ' HIM' before receiving Knowledge for at least 5 months.bzbzbzbzbzbzbbzbzb.......

If you have any questions about any aspect of the Aspirant Program, please call Timm Weed at DLM.

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Date: Sat, Jul 29, 2000 at 04:33:09 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: anoder ex
Subject: discover for themselves?
Message:
From the extract posted in the above post (from a newsletter dated January 1-15, Vol. 1 Issue 12, from DLM Pittsburgh, PA headquarters:

'The educational approach develops structures which allow people to discover for themselves the truth about a situation. For example, in a Meditation Discussion Series, instead of telling people what is the perfect point to concentrate upon, we have written a series of discussion questions which will help people come to the same conclusion for themselves.'

Embedded in those questions were statements telling the people what to 'conclude for themselves'. Instead of just honestly stating opinions, they/we posed them as questions. Notice the assumption that the people would come to the same conclusion.

Ah, the 'gentle' art of mind control. Same as it ever was.

Is this the 'Other school related activities' DLM/Elan Vital refered to in their application to the IRS for tax-exempt status?

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Date: Sat, Jul 29, 2000 at 13:45:55 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: G
Subject: Rationality left long a go for the deluded
Message:
All is backwards. Elan Vital's site is repugnant and maharaji has made many enemies lying in such a brutal way because many ex-premies still have papers/ magazines, etc. that he gave his AGYA/order to destroy. There is so, so much stuff still around! How is he going to explain all?

Look soon here for more. I heard that is going to be 'presented' here to refresh maharaji's memory (because evidently he suffers of amnesia) a North American Sponsorship brochure from 1983, sent by mail to all communities, where clearly financial support is requested from '...people who step forward to take responsability' for the costs of propagation. Very revealing!

I have such a need to understand how I got sucked into being an active follower/devotee sucker lover of Lard. Don't we all? There is pleasure in knowing finally the truth, right? maharaji sucks!

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Date: Sat, Jul 29, 2000 at 03:15:48 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: all
Subject: DLM/Elan Vital JEWEL ABOVE!! Recommended (nt)
Message:
We were there!!
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Date: Fri, Jul 28, 2000 at 18:27:51 (GMT)
From: la-ex
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Question to EV,re:EV's Cult checklist
Message:
Has everyone seen the 'cult checklist' on EV's site?
It has to be in direct response to the MRC letter from the boston program, which actually recommended that he publish such a list.
And also, the fact that he now has a short video clip in which he admits that he used to say he was the messiah,but also that you shouldn't get caught up in that stuff.
This is baffling behaviour indeed, and it seems to me that m is trying to talk without talking, or repent without repenting...

I have a question about the EV cult list, and since we know that they monitor this site, I will ask them to respond directly to the question, which is this:
DEAR EV:
In reference to your own list,do you believe that m's old organization, back in the 70's through the mid 80's. was a cult?
I receive knowledge in 1972 and was through it all, and I see every one of the cult 'red flags' that you mention in YOUR list, as having occurred in the organization in those days.
Do you agree or disagree?
I will bet you that every person who was ever involved to any major degree would concur. You could poll your current membership to see.

If it was indeed a 'cult' at one time, wouldn't m be a 'cult leader' or 'former cult leader' at best?
And shouldn't he address this issue?
Being a man of peace, wisdom,compassion...a 'master' who is concerned with the peace and harmony of people, especially his devotees....wouldn't he be inclined to address this and help those people gain some understanding of this unresolved issue in their lives?
If he would talk honestly about this,instead of HIDING, it would do more for peace in thousands of real peoples lives than anything he has done in years..
The price he would have to pay?
Saying he was wrong, admitting how screwed up he really is, and getting on with it.
The readers at EPO know all this stuff about mr rawat, and it's only a matter of time before ALL of his followers know it too.
Why don't you wake up, smell the coffee, and do the right thing?
Are you just plain afraid, or are you so deluded that you actually think that no mistakes were ever made, no lives ever damaged?

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Date: Sat, Jul 29, 2000 at 18:54:47 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: la-ex
Subject: Are you sure?
Message:
And also, the fact that he now has a short video clip in which he used to say he was the Messiah, but also that you shouldn't get caught up in that stuff.

La-ex, I wouldn't be so sure that Maharaji is trying to say that he used to say he was the Messiah. I think what he is trying to say, although admittedly not very well, is that he used to say, even in the 70s that he WASN'T the Messiah or God. He just has his dependent clauses really screwed up. Then he says it's on film somewhere in which he denied being God. This would tend to support what Elan Vital is saying. To interpret it your way, would mean it directly contradicts what Elan Vital is saying in writing, that Maharaji NEVER claimed to be God. See what I mean?

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Date: Fri, Jul 28, 2000 at 19:40:10 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: la-ex
Subject: Question to EV,re:EV's Cult checklist
Message:
AFF and other groups that help people getting out of cults, have a lot of research on what is and isn't a cult. Elan Vital makes up their own characteristics, most of which are irrelevent and easy to counter, even if Elan Vital doesn't do it very well.

This is something I posted earlier, but I streamlined it, comparing a 'cult' to what is done in the Maharaji world.

Most of the cult-research organizations include three essential elements of a cult, which Maharaji and Elan Vital still exemplify in spades, maybe more now than in the past:

1. First, in a cult, there is usually a simple solution offered for fulfillment, happiness or for solving peoples' problems. Obviously 'knowledge' is still offered in that way. In addition, there is a big dichotomy presented, dividing your 'hear' with you 'mind,' and dividing 'inside' and 'outside' implying that what is 'inside' is better and that you get distracted by what is on the outside. There is a real emphasis on thinking that what happens in the external world is less, causing pain and suffering, and an over-simiplification of the 'problems in this world.'

2. As a result of getting the 'simple solution,' members of the cult get to feel 'lucky' or 'superior' to people who don't have it. This is also obvious. As premies, didn't most of feel 'luckier' than the uninformed or unconscious masses who didn't have 'the gift?'

3. Cults usually have a leader who is considered special, who is considered the source of the 'simple solution,' has special powers, is unlike normal people in some 'higher' sense, and is worthy of reverence and devotion, and isn't open to being criticized. In the case of Maharaji, the new 'cult-speak' of 'gratitude.' Obviously this is, and always has been, the case in Elan Vital.

4. A cult has little or no tolerance for doubt of the cult or the leader, nor for criticism of the cult, and almost ZERO tolerance of criticism of the leader. How many times have ex-premies noticed the complete inability of a premie to utter even the teensiest criticism of Maharaji, even though it is claimed he is an 'ordinary person?' What would happen to a premie who uttered such criticisms in a room full of premies? How many of you exes have experienced the anger and fear you get from premies when you speak frankly about what you think about Maharaji. How many of us have become pariahs among premies, who start avoiding you like the plague when they find out what you think. How many ex-premies have to hide that fact to even keep their premie friends?

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Date: Sat, Jul 29, 2000 at 03:57:50 (GMT)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: M squelches criticism
Message:
Joe: You mentioned that one fact which proves that an organization is a cult is that no criticism of the leader is allowed. Well, all you premie lurkers, beware! M hired lawyers to shut down web sites which were critical of him and was successful in doing so. Why squelch debate? What is he so worried about? In one case, his lawyers complained about photos of M that had been morphed. Think about it. If knowledge is so great, why worry about criticism?

Marianne

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Date: Sat, Jul 29, 2000 at 19:33:28 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: M squelches criticism
Message:
For every site that he shuts, another comes out. He could spend the rest of his life and a tiny bit of not so his fortune doing that.
I really can not pass judgement on the fellow. But it is evident the he and EV are barricaded against the wall. Their washing is on the line, but they insist on ignoring it, like an ostrich hiding its head in the sand. Blinding oneself to the facts does not deny them; they {EV and GM} both know that. My believe is that they are stuck so deep in the mud, that no amount of rocking back and forth is going to save them, what they do not realize is that history delivers it own judgement, which I might say does not look good. As with other gurus like him, he will have a small following that support him, most likely worship his pictures and that is all. It is a matter of economics after all. Just compare the size of the halls and attendance in the seventies to now. I remember him getting peeved one day because there was only 4000-5000 in a festival in some horserace place south of London. Maybe we should consider how much rather how long. How much is it costing him to pay all his lawyers? Is it worth while to have a 22,000,000 invested in an asset that is used 300hrs a year? Which is $75,000 an hour just to go and speak to 323 people, definitely not, because he did not show up. Better he sells that plane and invests it in something else and takes the bus. I do not believe that gum Ji needs money from premies to support his lifestyle, as he already taken care of that. What he needs money for is to pump himself up, to inflate his larger than life ego, he is the bloody perfect master and nobody wants to know about him because he can not afford to hire a grand auditorium and rattle for an hour or two anymore about some meaningless ducks and wallabies that are happy the way they are without him rambling about them. He is living in a dream world that he made for himself, it is apparent that he wants it that way, and he is doing everything to keep us from pulling his blanket off.
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Date: Fri, Jul 28, 2000 at 17:24:48 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Elan Vital the Church
Message:
So, it looks like G has, down below definitive proof from the IRS that Elan Vital applied for the status of 'church' apparently to avoid taxes, and to avoid having to make public any of its financial records, despite taking donations from the public (see, Elan Vital also has NO members, according to Elan Vital.)

So, aside from the hypocrisy of claiming on its website that Elan Vital isn't a religion and then applying for the status of 'church', they also they don't mention that they ARE a church. Does this sound just perhaps the least bit inconsistent and contradictory, not to mention extremely misleading?

Anyhow, according to the IRS, although a 'church' does not have to file 990's, or disclose its financial information publicly, it MUST make available its application for 'church' status. [I believe it's called an application for an exemption. According to the IRS rules, any member of the public can ask the 'church' to make available at its offices a copy of the application, which contains the reasons Elan Vital says it is a church. If Elan Vital doesn't do this, there are fairly large fines that can be imposed. In the alternative, Elan Vital could mail you a copy of the application.

This would be a really interesting document to review, analyze and make public, for all premies, ex-premies, and non-premies to see. Anyone care to make the request?

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Date: Fri, Jul 28, 2000 at 22:45:37 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Y not just fax the IRS the page from EV's site?
Message:
Isn't it really that simple? Just print, fax and there you go?

Anyone?

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Date: Tues, Aug 01, 2000 at 02:18:27 (GMT)
From: VP
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Jim, why don't you fax it?
Message:
There is a problem with reporting to the IRS in the US. Often people making reports will also be audited, not always but sometimes. It's a pain to go through an audit, even if you are clean as a whistle taxwise.

Since you live in Canada, why don't you fax the IRS the page from EV's site?

I'd like to see someone follow up on this. Either EV is a church or they aren't a church. Once again, they can't have it both ways.

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Date: Sat, Jul 29, 2000 at 03:26:40 (GMT)
From: Reporting
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Tax Fraud
Message:
IRS Tax Fraud Hotline is 1-800-829-0433

See Reporting Tax Fraud

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Date: Fri, Jul 28, 2000 at 21:04:45 (GMT)
From: Joey
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Joe, or G?
Message:
Anyhow, according to the IRS, although a 'church' does not have to file 990's, or disclose its financial information publicly, it MUST make available its application for 'church' status. [I believe it's called an application for an exemption. According to the IRS rules, any member of the public can ask the 'church' to make available at its offices a copy of the application, which contains the reasons Elan Vital says it is a church. If Elan Vital doesn't do this, there are fairly large fines that can be imposed. In the alternative, Elan Vital could mail you a copy of the application.

This would be a really interesting document to review, analyze and make public, for all premies, ex-premies, and non-premies to see. Anyone care to make the request?

Can someone bring over the precise quote from the IRS indicating the above (and/ or the precise address from its site) so it can be referred to in any letter making the request to EV for their application for church status/exemption ?

I'm having a hard time finding it on my own.

Help, anyone?

Thanks

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Date: Fri, Jul 28, 2000 at 21:58:24 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Joey
Subject: It's 501 (C) of the Internal Revenue Code
Message:
Here's a summary:

Federally tax-exempt organizations classified under IRC sections 501(c) or 501(d) must comply with the recently revised law and regulations addressing public disclosure of certain forms and associated materials they've submitted to the IRS. These include any annual information returns whose required or actual filing date was within the last three years, which generally means the three most recent returns. These annual returns use Form 990 and its variants for 501(c) organizations, and Form 1065 for 501(d) organizations. If the organization filed its application for tax-exempt status (e.g. Form 1023 or 1024) after July 15, 1987 or possessed a copy of its application materials on that date, it must also make copies of that application available to the public. All schedules, attachments and other supporting material submitted with the annual return and application must also be disclosed.

Public access must be provided promptly on request by allowing inspection of the documents at the organization's office or offices, and by providing copies of the documents promptly in response to any in-person request or within 30 days for a written request. However, organizations don't have to provide copies if they make these materials widely available through publication on the Internet, or if the IRS determines that the organization is being subject to a harassment campaign. The organization is permitted to require a payment in advance for actual postage costs incurred, and a copying fee of up to $1 for the first page and $0.15 for each page thereafter. The request may be for only certain documents, or only certain portions of documents, in which case the charges must be for only those pages. NPO staff members who fail to comply with the new law and regulations are personally subject to fines and other penalties (i.e. the person refusing to provide public access gets fined, not the organization).

The law allows certain information to be excepted from public disclosure. However, other than this specifically excepted material, all schedules, attachments and other material associated with the annual information returns and application for tax-exempt status submitted to the IRS must also be disclosed, as must any letter or other document issued by the IRS with respect to the application. The rules for excepted material may be summarized as follows:

All 501(c) and 501(d) Organizations...

Some Organizations as Applicable

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Date: Sat, Jul 29, 2000 at 01:31:51 (GMT)
From: Joey
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Joe, do you think there's a problem here...
Message:
...or is there something I'm misreading or misunderstanding here.
Just wanna make sure that there's a sound legal basis to make the request.

If the organization filed its application for tax-exempt status (e.g. Form 1023 or 1024) after July 15, 1987 or possessed a copy of its application materials on that date, it must also make copies of that application available to the public. All schedules, attachments and other supporting material submitted with the annual return and application must also be disclosed.

However, according to the Chief of U.S. Army Chaplains' site on Religious Requirements and Practices: http://160.149.101.23/chap/relpractice/Sikh/elan.htm

The Divine Light Mission was formally established in the United States in 1971 as a nonprofit religious organization and in 1974 was recognized as a church by the United States Internal Revenue Service under IRS Section 501 (C)(B) . Elan Vital was established as a successor organization to the Divine Light Mission in the early 1980s

Since EV made its application for church status/exemption before 1987, is it still obliged to furnish copies of the application to the public on request?

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Date: Sat, Jul 29, 2000 at 03:17:14 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: Joey
Subject: or possessed a copy ...
Message:
Consider the other condition:

If the organization filed its application for tax-exempt status (e.g. Form 1023 or 1024) after July 15, 1987 or possessed a copy of its application materials on that date, it must also make copies of that application available to the public. All schedules, attachments and other supporting material submitted with the annual return and application must also be disclosed.
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Date: Sat, Jul 29, 2000 at 05:53:31 (GMT)
From: Joey
Email: None
To: G
Subject: or possessed a copy ...
Message:
I've considered that, G, and I'm wondering about the interpretation.

or possessed a copy of its application materials on that date

could mean if the non profit in question had the materials necessary to file the application on July 15, 1987 and went ahead and filed it on the same day or later, then they would be subject to the conditions of public disclosure.
To tell you the truth, I'm not 100% sure what it means, but there's no point in making the request to EV for the application, if there's no legal basis in the IR code that would oblige them to comply.

I'll contact guidestar and ask.

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Date: Sat, Jul 29, 2000 at 17:08:46 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Joey
Subject: or possessed a copy ...
Message:
Joey, I think the way to approach this is for someone to make the request, and cc the IRS. If Elan Vital or its lawyers think there is some reason they don't have to comply, then it will be their burden to show that. I don't think you have to investigate every nuance in the law first. The purpose of the IRS rules for disclosure is so that the general public can get information on organizations that are asking for donations. They are supposed to file financial reports, OR make available the reasons they say they are exempted. If you approach on that basis, it's then Elan Vital's burden to prove that they don't have to comply.
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Date: Sat, Jul 29, 2000 at 18:21:50 (GMT)
From: Joey
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: or possessed a copy ...
Message:
Come to think about it, Joe, you may be right.
Thanks for your response.
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Date: Fri, Jul 28, 2000 at 20:00:03 (GMT)
From: Lakota
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Elan Vital the Educational Institute
Message:































































 Name:

ELAN VITAL INC  

 Chapter:

 

 Non-profit Code:

237174539  

 Category:

Education & Research  

 Brief Description:

 

 Address:

PO BOX 6130  

MALIBU, CA 90264
United States


 Phone:

 

 Fax:

 

 Email:

 

 URL:

 

 Tax Status:

 

 EIN:

237174539  

 Description:

 

 Activities:

 

 

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Date: Fri, Jul 28, 2000 at 20:02:28 (GMT)
From: Lakota
Email: None
To: all
Subject: Here's the link
Message:
Regards,
Lakota

ON GIVING COM!

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Date: Fri, Jul 28, 2000 at 21:59:39 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: Lakota
Subject: Here's the results
Message:
The following shows the results, Non-profit Details, from that web site. I believe that the category is listed as 'Education & Research' because Elan Vital listed '059' (Other school related activities) as their first activity code when they dealt with the IRS. The second one was '001' (Church, synagogue, etc).


Name: ELAN VITAL INC

Non-profit Code: 237174539
EIN: 237174539

Category: Education & Research

Address:
PO BOX 6130
MALIBU, CA 90264
United States

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Date: Fri, Jul 28, 2000 at 19:07:48 (GMT)
From: Know It All
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Elan Vital the Church
Message:
Sounds like tax fraud.

KIA

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Date: Sat, Jul 29, 2000 at 11:52:07 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Know It All
Subject: Church? - but its Charity category ...
Message:
... is Education and Research!

Methinks they will have to be losing their exemption status ...

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Date: Fri, Jul 28, 2000 at 15:17:59 (GMT)
From: Shintaro
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Thanks
Message:
Shintaro says-
For months my boyfriend has been teasing me that M's a nerd, that he has no concept of how real human beings feel.
So after I saw the 'truth about M website' I told my boyfriend to look it up.
He was impressed.
The next time he saw me he said 'So he is human after all'.
A week later he confessed that he'd been searching this site for any comments M's made that 'you shouldn't drink, shouldn't take drugs, shouldn't party etc', hoping to catch him being hypocritical.
He couldn't find anything.
Now he thinks Knowledge mght be OK after all.
So thanks for your help.
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Date: Sat, Jul 29, 2000 at 17:21:19 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Shintaro
Subject: I hope it did not affect you sex life..nt
Message:
NT
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Date: Sat, Jul 29, 2000 at 02:00:19 (GMT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: Shintaro
Subject: Cripes, I'd better remove that site then!
Message:
I didn't realise that The Truth about Maharaji was helping bring new people to Maharaji.

I'll take it off the web immediately so that nobody elses boyfriend suddenly gets into Maharaji. Oh God, what have I done!

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Date: Fri, Jul 28, 2000 at 21:05:52 (GMT)
From: S
Email: None
To: Shintaro
Subject: I own a video where m talks bad about drugs
Message:
Is an aspirant video where he explains that if a person is tied to drugs they shouldn't receive knowledge until they stop using. I can find the title if you want to know, and I heard maharaji talking about drugs other times too... And yes, he can use drugs because he is the master, he realized knowledge. He can do anyhting he wants, even lie to millions of people, steal their money with phoney needs, protect criminals, brainwash people, be 'GOD' one day, to deny it later, etc., etc.,... Darshan in India, Australia, secret to the west. Lies. That is OUR maharaji, yuck!
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Date: Fri, Jul 28, 2000 at 20:55:56 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: fitzroy@liverpool.ac.uk
To: Shintaro
Subject: Transparent bullshit
Message:
Sorry Shint (may I call you 'Shint'?), but that's how it sounds: that you are not who you say you are and your cautionary tale is the product of a somewhat stunted premie imagination.

(Unless you'd like to tell us a little bit more about yourself)

I mean, can't YOU see how implausible you sound? - especially for an apparently first-time poster.

FA: Who is this..? The voice is familiar.

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Date: Sat, Jul 29, 2000 at 06:07:34 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: ha!! it's contagious isn't it Nigel
Message:
By that I mean getting sick of posters like this.
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Date: Fri, Jul 28, 2000 at 21:19:13 (GMT)
From: He/she was here before
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: Transparent bullshit? Look here
Message:
Date: Fri, Jul 21, 2000 at 05:57:34
From: Shintaro
Email: None
To: Zelda
Subject: No Zelda, it's English
Message:
Hey Zelda,
Read it again!

EV='Elan Vital supports each persons freedom of choice with regard to their philosophical, political and religious convictions. It rejects all forms of illegal discrimination, including those pertaining to race, nationality, age or gender'

Zelda says=!!! Also sound ok. Particularly the 'religious freedom'bit

EV='It is also Elan Vital?s position that all persons are free and responsible for their choices of family, professional and social life. The organization neither addresses nor interferes with these areas.'

Zelda says=!!! Wups! they left out religious in that paragraph. So 'all persons' are NOT 'free and responsible for their choices of religious life'. So the organization CAN interfere with the are relating to religious choices.

Shintaro says= The phrase ''It is also Elan Vital's position' makes it clear that the above position is in addition to 'freedom of choice with regard to their philosophical, political and religious convictions'.

Zelda says= But here is where is gets downright siniser- because it starts to make a distiction between Marajis TEACHING and the Knowledge.

Shintaro says= The Knowledge ( the four technques) are a part of M's teachings but are not the whole of his teachings.

EV= 'Following Maharajis TEACHING is a personal process and in no way requires involvement with any particular group or organization. Each individual may therefore pursue this teaching without associating with or supporting Elan Vital'
!!! So this means that one can listen to the satsang with no strings attatched.:

'IN ADDITION, each person freely decides the nature of their relationship to the teaching: they may follow it for whatever period of time they desire, abandon it if and when they want, and return again as they wish.

Zelda says=SO THIS MEANS THAT one can can listen to the teaching and then ASSESS whether they want to make THE DECISION as described below.

Shintaro says= That's right Zelda. You can listen to M and THEN decide you don't want to isten any more.

EV= The decision to request THE KNOWLEDGE !!proposed!! by Maharaji remains at all times an individual act, conscious and free. This is why minors, in particular, are asked to wait until they are legal age in order to make their request.

'Support for Elan Vital activities, whether personal skills or financial contributions, are voluntary and are made freely.
'Admission to conferences sponsored by Elan Vital is free, however there are some events where a donation is suggested to cover costs of the meeting.'

'In the US, Elan Vital is a tax exempt, non-profit organization which promotes Maharaji?s teaching, coordinates events at which he speaks and provides information on activities. !!!Elan Vital has nothing but Nothing to do with Knowledge giving.
'In order to provide easy access to the teachings of Maharaji, EV makes a variety of products and distribution methods available, including on-line ordering, in-home satellite broadcast viewing, and mail order video libraries.'

Zelda says=This last paragraph insulates Elan Vital from the trappings for a person who has made the DECISION to take knowledge.

From the point that they recieve knowledge, it is a free fall into a trap. By that time the person is hog-tied into invisible contract to be loyal to the master who has given them this gift. And all donations are voluntary- but gratitude and participation are mentioned in the knowledge session as obvious reciprical response to recieving this gift.

Shintaro says= M makes it clear long before someone can ask for K that participation is necessary to get the most out of K. There is even an application form on the EV website.
If that is unacceptable then don't proceed.

end

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Date: Sat, Jul 29, 2000 at 06:55:31 (GMT)
From: Zelda
Email: None
To: He/she was here before
Subject: 'proceed at your own risk
Message:
didnt think anyone was on line that day. I found the EV statement very alarming- as if their lawyer advised them to publish a waiver to prevent legal action.
Kinda like 'the management accepts no responsibility for injury'
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Date: Fri, Jul 28, 2000 at 17:41:33 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Shintaro
Subject: What a Pile of Crap....
Message:
You know, Shintaro, you aren't the first premie who has come on here pretenting that there is somebody read this website that it made them more interested in Maharaji and knowledge. I remember one time somebody even posted as an aspirant in Malaysia saying such nonsense. It's supposed to be a real put down, and make us all really examine what we are doing. Oh my god, are we actually HELPING people get involved with Maharaji? Bullshit.

I think you made this up, and it's a pile of crap. You probably don't even have a boyfriend, and if you do, I would think you wouldn't want people to know that you are involved with someone who is so one-dimensional, that he's only interested in whether Maharaji is into drugs and partying and whether he ever said anything about it. How about the fact that he's a liar? You mean to tell me that somebody would be interested in a 'master' who lies through his teeth? Get real. We are not that stupid.

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Date: Fri, Jul 28, 2000 at 17:25:07 (GMT)
From: la-ex
Email: None
To: Shintaro
Subject: Thanks
Message:
I hope your boyfriend is happy with a 'master' who is a pathological liar,unfaithful husband,tax cheat,alcoholic,manipulator, fraud, etc., because that's what he's getting...

And that's just for starters...

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Date: Fri, Jul 28, 2000 at 16:59:43 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Shintaro
Subject: Your boyfriend sounds like a really smart guy (nt)
Message:
jjjjjj
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Date: Fri, Jul 28, 2000 at 16:20:17 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Shintaro
Subject: Thanks
Message:
Your boyfriend thinks M is OK and that he might want to try knowledge because he found out that M drinks, takes drugs, and parties? And that that makes M a 'real person'? Well, to each his own, I guess...

Good luck! I think you might need it.

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Date: Fri, Jul 28, 2000 at 16:13:38 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: Shintaro
Subject: Thanks
Message:
'you shouldn't drink, shouldn't take drugs, shouldn't party etc'

He said all that many times, but it went far beyond that. He yelled at Kissimmee about premies' 'sex trips'. Maybe he was thinking about his own 'sex trips'. He chastized premies for 'chit chat' (i.e. casually talking to each other). He wrote the ashram manual, including the 'agya' (orders) for chastity, poverty, and obedience. There was no TV (except for videos of him talking), no alcohol, no drugs, no parties, no entertainment at all. It didn't stop with the ashram, that was the pressure that was put on premies in general. All this time, he was living 'la vida loca'.

Sure, he stopped saying some of this, at least in the west. What he still says in India, we don't know. One thing though, he never apologized and never explained why he said that stuff, he never retracted any of it. He never said 'You know all that crazy stuff I said? I was nuts, what I said was wrong and here's why...' Nothing like that.

'M' related a few months ago that he went to see a 'good friend' who was dying, but got to the hospital too late. He said something very close to 'And do you how I felt? I was glad it happened to him and not to me. And he was a good friend of mine.'

I don't think that is how a real human being feels.

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Date: Fri, Jul 28, 2000 at 15:59:38 (GMT)
From: Jethro
Email: None
To: Shintaro
Subject: Don't thank us thank M
Message:
Hi shintaro,

We're all really doing propagation for our Lord. We are the ultimate devotees who have gone completely into the maya to bring home souls

see you at His Feet

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Date: Fri, Jul 28, 2000 at 13:17:46 (GMT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Any regrets?
Message:
I also think that people leaving the cult now, are even more emotionally vulnerable and open to abuse, because they've been under the delusion that they WERE free agents, and the reality is just dawning after thirty years.

I'm thinking of this statement Hamzen made to Jim in an earlier thread. For me, I didn't feel this way at all. For years, I'd been plagued with doubt about the whole trip, and when I finally found this website and found myself identifying, STRONGLY, with the anti-M, anti-K sentiments, I knew it was over. It's been over two years, now, and the only thing I've felt since then is freedom. What about the rest of you? Was it difficult to leave the cult, or did you just feel like good riddance, thank God it's over? That's the way I felt.

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Date: Sat, Jul 29, 2000 at 23:02:34 (GMT)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: HELL NO, are you kidding?
Message:
I didn't really 'leave', I drifted away. It happened slowly, gradually. It was replaced with a different view about life, but there was still a part of me that had notions about M that were all all wrong. So I was still vulnerable because I still used to pray to M sometimes (crazy but true) when I was in extreme pain , like when I had cramps--ha ha!! Like Maharaji should know what menstrual cramps are like--OY! Until I found this website. And then I was able to put it all together with the help of everyone here.

I don't have any regrets, I see leaving M as a natural consequence of coming to one's senses. I found the whole trip too difficult anyway, and there were other things I wanted to be doing, it was boring. I was hardly the model premie. But you know, the weary and the weak and all that. You could be the biggest fuck-up and still grovel at his feet at festivals. That was such a crock of shit. We felt shitty about ourselves, and then because we couldn't practice 24-7, we got even more unbearably neurotic so that noone could stand to be around us but we said to ourselves 'well M loves me even if I am a big mess.' I mean the guy makes his career out of keeping people weary, weak, neurotic, messes. WHo wants to be weary and weak? I want to be strong and have energy, instead of letting some idea of perfection that can never be, drain all my energy.

No, I am much much happier now. No regrets.

How ya been, Jerry? I didn't realize it had only been 2 years for you. Did you ever go back to the Unitarian church?

I just read a really interesting book called 'Parable of the Sower' by Octavia Butler. I highly recommend it to you. Sci fi, with quite an interesting spin on what 'God' is. I couldn't put it down.

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Date: Sun, Jul 30, 2000 at 01:24:52 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Helen
Subject: you are lucky
Message:
Some of us didn't escape so easily unscathed. I am still trying to sort out the bullshit in my head. What's real what isn't and how to to a crash course acquiring all those basic skills one usually learns in their late teens and twenties. And Thirties!!!!! I wouldn't call what I am feeling 'regrets' though. More like anger. And stunned that I could be so vulnerable.
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Date: Sun, Jul 30, 2000 at 01:51:29 (GMT)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: Yes I am lucky
Message:
Hey I said I was happy, not that I had basic skills--ha ha! I am still learning those, too. My husband who is 50 says he still feels like the 'kid' who is still catching up-- My husband and I both feel very behind where we should be developmentally. But I figure at least we are trying to grow up. Maybe by the time we retire we will figure it all out.

My feeling about it is the more time you put between yourself and Maharaji the better off you will feel. It's like a conditioning process reversing itself. You have to figure that you were conditioned as a premie not to feel comfortable in your own skin (without the 'fix', that is). . More time away from it, the more comfortable you will feel.

That basic skills thing is a hard one. This trip fucked me up, yes, but that lack of 'basic skills' thing is also rife in alcoholic homes. M's trip was just kind of a halfway house between the home I grew up in and the real world.

But you're right, I am lucky. I don't feel scarred by M's trip anymore, no. My scars are pre-Maharaji. The really deep ones. Those I just have to 'live around', they will never be 'fixed.' But I can live with that now.

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Date: Sun, Jul 30, 2000 at 01:58:26 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Helen
Subject: it's a combination for me
Message:
My scars are pre-Maharaji. The really deep ones. Those I just have to 'live round', they will never be 'fixed.' But I can live with that now.
Such is what I am learning. Thanks Helen. It sucks having to relearn or learn anew but I think my bullshit detector at least has been finetuned, via a crash course, from the 2+ years exiting. Forum has a way of helping facilitate that, one way or another! Sorry I haven't sent the promised links. I've been really busy.
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Date: Sun, Jul 30, 2000 at 21:53:38 (GMT)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: M was a big time drain for all of us....
Message:
I don't even remember your promising to send me links. Was this regarding the S&M research?

I don't mean to sound so blithe about how little my involvement with M scarred me. It's just that I am more interested in probing why I was so readily fooled int he first place. That stuff that happened pre-M seems more relevant to me now than what actually occurred during my years of involvement with M. Also I had that guru before M who was WORSE!! Peeling off the layers until getting to the person I was prior to the gurus, and all that was going on then. It's like connecting the dots, ya know? The years were lost, yes, but if we don't grab the reins of our lives back and do the work that needs to be done, then the big fat turd still has us in his grasp. Sorry if I sound preachy but that's the way I see it.

On another tangent altogether.....
One of the most therapeutic aspects of the forum is that for so long my guru days were a big shameful secret, but finding the forum helped me to take all that shameful stuff and laugh at it.
I know some of it isn't funny, but alot of it is so adsurd you just have to laugh. Thank god we all have this place to put it all out there and finally talk about it. It was a strange trip, no? Ok, time to finish my 'chores' Good talking to ya--Helen

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Date: Mon, Jul 31, 2000 at 06:53:16 (GMT)
From: ham
Email: None
To: Helen
Subject: You sound wonderfully assertive,
Message:
strong and direct. Getting my knees all wobbly! :)

Good to see you around

Tings allright, well alrightish?

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Date: Mon, Jul 31, 2000 at 00:11:08 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Helen
Subject: dammit i am still in arizona
Message:
Hi again Helen
last post here for a while I hope. I cannot believe my luck getting the hell out of Dodge (literally)
I am never planning a vacation with anyone else again!!
yeah sure. :)
Yes I did mean the S and M links. I'll get to it all later a few weeks from now. My life is on hold for a while so I can romp around at the beach and chill.
you said re: forum, exiting, etc:
some of it isn't funny, but alot of it is so adsurd you just have to laugh.
isn't that the damned truth. If you only knew the half of it on my end!! I'm tempted to tell it and run. some people know. Lots acutally hahahahahha.
love, Selene
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Date: Mon, Jul 31, 2000 at 06:49:12 (GMT)
From: ham
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: S and M links, this sounds interesting! (nt)
Message:
a
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Date: Mon, Jul 31, 2000 at 16:34:23 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: ham
Subject: S and M links, this sounds interesting! (nt)
Message:
I realize it's all in fun (or not), but you do send mixed messages. What was that you were discussing with G about m's control trip - domination/submission?
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Date: Mon, Jul 31, 2000 at 13:47:56 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: ham
Subject: it IS interesting and also FUN hammy
Message:
A research project I'm helping with on communications on the internet.
If you are good I will tell you more.

I'll check up on you in a few days from UCSD - on the ocean!!

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Date: Fri, Jul 28, 2000 at 16:10:38 (GMT)
From: Rated-X
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: Any regrets?
Message:
I don't have any regrets, before I was attached to a cult, but now am very attached to this forum. Am still interested in what happens in the k world. What is m up to, will the whole thing crumble and when, now the k is on DVD, (strange and cold, did he get bored showing the techniques) etc.

So my question to all of you reading this, if am attached to this web site and forum, have I really left the cult once and for all?

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Date: Sat, Jul 29, 2000 at 12:16:08 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Rated-X
Subject: If leaving was easy ...
Message:
I sometimes wonder what I'm doing here too, R-X. (quit DLM in 1976!) Maybe I'm looking to redress the balance - you know, all that effort I put in back then, - wouldn't it be good to see M have to give some of it back? ( - in the form of having to pay taxes, would be a start).

I look at it like this: if the free communication you find here is fulfilling a need/purpose in your life, R-X, there's no need to give yourself a hard time with thoughts of 'oh, I'm attached ...'

Give it all you've got. Repressing the urge to post/read here will just prolong the process of getting M out of your life (even though that might sound paradoxical).

You'll know when he's gone. You just won't think about him anymore.

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Date: Sat, Jul 29, 2000 at 05:06:35 (GMT)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: Rated-X
Subject: Forum addiction
Message:
Rated X: I think that reading the forum provides an alternative view of the world that M never allowed. Reading here permits a freedom that is not permitted within the cult. It is cult conditioning that makes us wonder if reading the forum is bad for us. Don't fall into that trap. Reading here, even being obsessed with it for a time, will set you free, unlike Maharaji, who will try to capture you for a lifetime of donations and toe kissing.

Congratulations on your freedom. Don't look back.

Marianne

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Date: Fri, Jul 28, 2000 at 17:52:18 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Rated-X
Subject: You are here because you need support.......
Message:
Leaving the cult, at least for me, was not some instantaneous thing. And after I left, I really needed to talk about it. I really needed to hear other ex-cultists talk about it. In the Maharaji cult, I internalized so much of the programming, so much of the fear, that it was like tapes playing in my brain, mostly automatically and unconsciously. It was only by interacting with others who knew what the hell that was like that I could do anything about it. But, believe me, once it starts to unravel like that, no way you are not out. And feeling the need to be here, on this forum, is part of the healing process.

The other thing that is so important is INFORMATION, which you are mostly denied as a premie, mostly by the self-censorship that goes on in a cult-members brain. You are really starved for it. You naturally want to know what happened, how it happened, and what was really going on, and who, really, you had dedicated your life to. It's the way most people heal and get free. So I think you should feel like it's a normal reaction to want to hang out around here with other ex-premies.

That's why this whole discussion, the website, etc., is so important. It didn't exist when I left the cult in 1983. I wish it had.

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Date: Fri, Jul 28, 2000 at 17:18:00 (GMT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Rated-X
Subject: Any regrets?
Message:
I distinctly remember Maharaji saying how if he wanted to, he could reveal Knowledge on TV and everybody could have it free of charge that way. Just tune in and voila! But NO, he said, the revealing of Knowledge will ALWAYS be one person to another. That's what he said. Just more bullshit he felt like saying at the time, I guess. Again, as always, fuck him.
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Date: Fri, Jul 28, 2000 at 15:15:22 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: There's a little mental parasite on your shoe sir.
Message:
Hi Jerry,

I felt the same as you. I've been out about a year now. Once I found Ex-Premie.org and the Forum, everything fell into place really quickly and I couldn't distance myself from the cult fast enough.

Every time I think about my leaving, it makes me feel good, and I get a little buzz- like, 'Thank God I'm not wasting anymore time, running on faith and pissing into the wind.'

It's a bit like leaving a shitty job that you had to do because you needed the money. What a relief to get out of the door and move on to better things.

I still get pleasure from 'not meditating'. It's a really bad habit that deprives you of sleep and generates guilt. It still feels good to put my head on the pillow at night and not feel guilty about going to sleep without poking myself in the eye for 15 minutes, and sticking my thumbs up my arse (see, I've forgotten the techniques already).

I wish I could wrap 'Knowledge' up in a brown paper parcel and send it back to Malibu with a note, 'Here's your knowledge back. It didn't work. Can I have my money back please? signed Anth the Unrealised'

Having a guru is like having a little parasite in your brain that sucks energy from all your thoughts, stops you thinking straight, and sends you round and round in circles. It's such a liberating feeling when it drops out your ear onto the floor, then wriggles and writhes for a few seconds before you stamp on it.

Yahoo Jerry- We're FREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

SPLAT SQUELCH

Anth the what's that sticky mess on the sole of my shoe.

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Date: Fri, Jul 28, 2000 at 21:22:30 (GMT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: There's a little mental parasite on your shoe sir.
Message:
Hi Anth,

I wonder how many premies there were like you and me who stuck it out, not because we were having THE EXPERIENCE, but because we believed in M, pure and simple, we just believed in the man, that he had it, we wanted it, and he was going to take us there, to the promised land. That's pretty fucking pathetic, when you think about it, that we believed this overweight.... greasy...... was our key to happiness. Quick, give me a labotomy. This brain of mine doesn't work so well, methinks. But I think that perhaps it's finally coming around, and there's hope. Yes! It's alive! It's alive!

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Date: Fri, Jul 28, 2000 at 22:52:03 (GMT)
From: Lotus Eater
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: That parasite can rot your brain
Message:
Finally, after 26 yrs, I literally went insane believing in the stupid fuck, talk about cognitive dissonance! The day the verandah railing started to wave in front of my eyes, some little flash of scientific knowledge equated the lines of green and red running through the railing and colour blindness, I sought help. My doctor put his arm round me and I stopped shaking.

Easy to leave the cult? Since logging on to EPO, yes.

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Date: Fri, Jul 28, 2000 at 15:11:32 (GMT)
From: bill
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: Any regrets?
Message:
Hi Jerry,
Your subject title, any regrets?
Is one issue.

Your other question, was it difficult to leave the whole delusion, well, for me yes. Because unless I was going to just paper over the issues that the fraudulence revealed, I had to review and change all my fundamental assumptions about life, about reality as it shows itself to be here.

I had to explain to myself, based on evidence I would believe, what the real nature of this conciousness is.
NO picnic, as all the explanations from all quarters turned out to have flaws mixed in with any accurate views.

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Date: Sat, Jul 29, 2000 at 22:44:54 (GMT)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: bill
Subject: Any regrets?
Message:
'had to review and change my fundamental assumptions about life'--YES, bill. I think that has happened to all of us here and we have watched one another go through that process. I think that process has been necessary for all of us. All of us may have been vulnerable to a similar trip with different trappings and wrappings without going through that process. The process of changing one' s 'reality map' is no mean feat.

Sometimes I look back and I am ashamed for being caught into such a narcissistic trip. It really is very self-absorbed to devote one's self to pursuing an 'experience' of 'bliss.' And to sell one's soul in order to do so.

I am still curious about M and what compells him to live all these lies. I would love to be a fly on the wall watching him go through his day. I suspect he is one deeply screwed up person (no shit SHerlock). but besides my curiosity, I barely think about him anymore, except in the context of the new friends I have made here. I do sometimes feel really sad that I was so lost and troubled at that time in my life (20 yrs ago) that I gave myself so easily to a schmuck like M. But I was reckless at that time and would have done something equally dumb I am sure.

I'm just glad to have enough time left to really enjoy my life. Enjoy it without that 'parasite' int he brain that AJW was talking about. To have no chains on me, spiritually, physically, or intellectually.

Helen

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Date: Sat, Jul 29, 2000 at 01:27:57 (GMT)
From: ham
Email: None
To: bill
Subject: Do you feel that cleared it for you Bill?
Message:
I think breaking it all down like some systems analysis project enabled me to step clear of, but that some real healing is only just starting.
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Date: Sat, Jul 29, 2000 at 04:14:24 (GMT)
From: bill
Email: None
To: ham
Subject: Do you feel that cleared it for you Bill?
Message:
You know Ham, you may be right. It is kind of just starting to kick in a major way. The dissecting had to happen for me to rebuild my framework. I think the thing that took the longest was getting a read on human nature and figureing out what that -evidence- was telling me about life here.

I leave at 5:30 for Cape Cod for a week. I'll have a lot of reading waiting to catch up on here!
Goodnight Hamzen!

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Date: Sat, Jul 29, 2000 at 04:25:49 (GMT)
From: ham
Email: None
To: bill
Subject: Yeah I thought so, identical, luv ya
Message:
and have a really fucking good one Bill,

but renegade zen is ok you know, honest, nothing organized or official like you understand!

Zen Anarchism rules ok

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Date: Fri, Jul 28, 2000 at 21:41:20 (GMT)
From: ham
Email: None
To: bill
Subject: Any regrets?
Message:
Yeah, pretty similar to me by the sounds of it, the major part took me ten years, stripped down everything.
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Date: Fri, Jul 28, 2000 at 18:22:23 (GMT)
From: Gregg
Email: None
To: bill
Subject: Regrets, I've had a few...
Message:
Though in my regretting mode, I usually replay my romantic relationships . I'm pushing fifty, now, though, and when you get closer to death than birth, you start getting a little more accepting and philosophical about things. (Unless you go the other way, into cranky grumpy evil codgerhood.) So I mostly revel in my present happiness, realizing that even when I fucked up in the past, I was doing the best I could with what I had.

But the cult is not high on my regrets list. Yeah, I don't go around bragging about the fact I was in a guru cult in the seventies, but I had fun while it lasted; my education and career mostly continued; and it only lasted a few years, so my family and friends got to see me come to my senses.

I was in an ashram for the last half-year of my involvement. And during one week while I was temping downtown, I got into a conversation with a beautiful young woman who was heading up to a teaching job in the mountains in September. A future life flashed before my eyes, a life I had renounced: family, love, sex, rewarding work, freedom.

Then, that week, at lunch, I was sitting on a stoop at lunch, reading Westword, Denver's free newspaper. Tha back page had an article on cults. One of a cult's characteristics, said the writer (who I met years later), was that it dichotomizes reality: religious/worldly, good/bad, (and, I filled in the blanks, 'the Word/in your mind; satsang/chitchat; DLM/the world')

So it all happened pretty suddenly. I called up my folks (who were elated); they mailed me a few hundred bucks; and the following week I was living in a grimy boardinghouse, free. I thought it would be hard, but it wasn't. Well, any more than life itself is hard. In the cult, there was no reward for tackling tough emotional issues, so, like all of us, I adopted the belief that one day my problems would just drop away if I meditated and believed. Jesus, what a stupid idea!

Anyway, save for one premie friend, I never saw a premie again, as far as I know, except for the two times I went to see Guru Maharaj Ji, once in the eighties, and once in the late nineties, where I was flabbergasted with how boring and fatuous and pathetic the whole thing was.

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Date: Sat, Jul 29, 2000 at 05:09:10 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Gregg
Subject: Regrets, I've had a few...
Message:
In the cult, there was no reward for tackling tough
emotional issues

And it IS rewarding to tackle them and learn and grow from them, isnt' it? What a line of BS they fed us.

Thanks for that story.

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Date: Sat, Jul 29, 2000 at 04:07:10 (GMT)
From: bill
Email: None
To: Gregg
Subject: Regrets, I've had a few...
Message:
Good to read the story Gregg, I'm glad it went like that.
humorous also.
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Date: Fri, Jul 28, 2000 at 10:56:19 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: I'm confused: Elan Vital says that maharaji never
Message:
recived what??...I remember lots of fundraisings stories...Is this one?

Microsoft

Thanks for the house

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Date: Fri, Jul 28, 2000 at 18:02:31 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: SB
Subject: This is the 'delapitdated' house, by the way.
Message:
This 'large and beautiful' house, that Maharaji is talking about, is the house the premies bought for Maharaji in Malibu, that Elan Vital claims was 'delapidated.' Funny how Maharaji thought it was 'large and beautiful.' The lies that Elan Vital engages in are apparently endless.
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Date: Fri, Jul 28, 2000 at 20:17:29 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: This is the 'delapitdated' house, by the way.
Message:
That is the one, yes, and maharaji was nice enough to sign the Thank You letter for us!!
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Date: Fri, Jul 28, 2000 at 23:22:21 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: SB
Subject: Yet another 'delapitdated' nice house.
Message:
A long time ago, I was in Miami with my family. We wanted to move there. I don’t know why, but we wanted to move there. And so, we went looking for a house. We saw a lot of beautiful houses, and we would see a really nice house and the price was right, and location was good, but, “No, we don’t want this. It won’t do.” And we looked and looked, and looked, and looked—and finally, we found one house. The realtor says, “You know, I have to warn you. It’s a really beaten down house.” It was in a great location, but it was really beaten down. It hadn’t been cared for. We looked at it and it was like, “This is it.” Why? Because this house, we can change and not feel guilty about changing it. I still think about that. Why did we choose a house that was in such bad shape? Because you wouldn’t be sitting there tearing down perfectly good, nice, painted walls.

Gum Ji, Amaroo, April 2000

He seems to have a habit of buying such houses, is this a premeditated thing he does. Right now lets see, this morning
I am taking the wife, the kids, the cat and dog and a picnic basket and I am of looking for a dilapidated house. After I get some of those dick head slaves of mine to do it up for me, telling them how wonderful it is to fix dilapidated houses for me, and I might also be able to empty their wallets while am at it, hmm, sound good. Hey Marilyn, listen to this...

If you do not know why you wanted to move there gm, maybe that will answer your question [or at least one of them], and please stop pretending that you are such an innocent idiot, and stop bullshiting, there is nothing that you can say or do to change my view of you, you are a pompous spoiled fat carrying ex-lord con rip-off merchant that has not idea what is going on in the world, and it bloody time that someone brings you out of your stupid dream and shove your head in the toilet bowel and rinse it, maybe then you will stop squeaking and grow some balls.

Salam

p.s. how much this one went for?

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Date: Sat, Jul 29, 2000 at 17:53:28 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: Miami House -- bullshit
Message:
When the Elan Vital headquarters moved to Miami in 1979, and the Boeing 707 plane was under construction, Maharaji wanted a house in Miami, while keeping his residences in Malibu, England and India. Plus, he was doing lots and lots of programs there, because, at that time, the halls and hotels were cheap and he made more money off them that way. Plus, Maharaji liked the steamy, muggy heat in Miami, the negative effects of which he didn't have to deal with because every comfort imaginable was available to him, including the famous 'wall of air conditioning' on the stage in Kissimmee (which he bragged about from the stage), which he enjoyed while the premies fried in the tropical sun, which seemed to be of no concern to him.

Anyhow, the 'run down house' was on Palm Island off Miami Beach. It was a big mansion, but it wasn't super updated, and it was a 'great location' because, being on an island, it had great security. The house was big, and very nice, though, although certainly not what Maharaji was used to. He only lived there temporarily, until they found a house on Miami Beach, fronting on Biscayne Bay, that was an extremely big, beautiful, luxurious mansion. It was not 'run down' in any sense, and was made even more beautiful and luxurious after Maharaji got it.

I was in Miami at the time, and the story was that Maharaji was really pissed off at this time, and would scream and yell a lot while he lived on Palm Island. Raja Ji and Claudia were sharing the house with them, until they, too, got a luxury house on Miami Beach, also funded by the donations we all made to the lotus feet. You may recall that One Foundation recorded an instrumental piece called 'Palm Island' which was so-named because the Florida 'residence' was there at the time.

This idea that Maharaji ever had a house that was delapitated or was run down is ludicrous. He always, except perhaps when he first arrived in the West and stayed in other peoples' homes, has lived in luxury beyond what most ordinary people could even imagine. Plus, he has had multiple servents, cooks, drivers, nannies and child-care personnel, gardeners, etc., etc., all as slave labor supplied by premies. The most serious problem Maharaji had was storing his many luxury cars and the obscene amount of other luxury stuff he had. Whole warehouses had to be rented to store all that stuff. It was obscene.

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Date: Sat, Jul 29, 2000 at 03:44:56 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: Does anyone know the Miami address?
Message:
Does anyone know the address of the Miami 'really beaten down house'? Does he still control it or was it sold? What about his other 'shacks' (besides Malibu)?
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Date: Sat, Jul 29, 2000 at 04:21:31 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: G
Subject: Does anyone know the Miami address?
Message:
You mean Alton Rd?
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Date: Sat, Jul 29, 2000 at 04:36:28 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: SB
Subject: I think so, have a house number?
Message:
I think so, do you know the house number?
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Date: Sat, Jul 29, 2000 at 03:48:01 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: G
Subject: Anyone have details on his yacht?
Message:
Does anyone have any details on his yacht, such as the name, number, make/model, or harbor?
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Date: Sun, Jul 30, 2000 at 17:46:51 (GMT)
From: Rob
Email: None
To: G
Subject: Anyone have details on his yacht?
Message:
'Serenity'....I think.
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Date: Fri, Jul 28, 2000 at 10:58:44 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: all
Subject: sorry, still practicing...LOL (nt)
Message:
forget microsoft...ROFL

MAHARAJI IS IT!

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Date: Fri, Jul 28, 2000 at 12:21:07 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: SB
Subject: SB, while you are experementing, can you tell me
Message:
if this site

Has been here before?

{I bet the link is not going to come up again, ?><&%$%$%$% gum ji}

Salam

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Date: Fri, Jul 28, 2000 at 12:25:37 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: I knew it, must be gum ji.
Message:
this is the url anyway

http://home.talkcity.com/SpiritSt/maharajiwebs/

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Date: Fri, Jul 28, 2000 at 10:38:32 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Why MAHARAJI doesn't have his wealth under
Message:
his own name?

What is he hiding?

Why does he do it?

What are his financial plans?

Why premies bought a multimillion dollar plane for maharaji 'TO PROPAGATE KNOWLEDGE' and m says today the plane belongs TO OTHER PEOPLE?

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Date: Fri, Jul 28, 2000 at 16:04:22 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: SB
Subject: Life under the US tax code.
Message:
Hi SB -
The US tax code is so full of loopholes that benefit the rich! Maharaji is definitely not the only one who sets up shell corporations, puts things in other people's names, etc. It is basically an accepted practice. My mother did financial planning for a company that would only accept clients with a net worth of more than a million dollars, and she was amazed and disgusted at the number of ways there are to avoid paying taxes IF you have a lot of money.

By the way, I see George W. Bush's new plan to reduce taxes includes not having to pay estate tax on estates worth more than $600,000. This is supposed to benefit family farmers and owners of small family businesses - well, all I can say is HAH! Farms and small businesses have other ways to avoid paying massive estate taxes. Basically this plan will benefit rich kids (like George W.) who can inherit money from their parents.

Sorry for the political diatribe - I just can't help it! But I would guess that what Maharaji is doing is not illegal or uncommon, although he probably could benefit from a IRS audit (ditto for EV.)

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Date: Sat, Jul 29, 2000 at 02:02:40 (GMT)
From: ex book buyer
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: Life under the US tax code.
Message:
Katie-you are so right!
In regards to m,I once heard chuck nathan brag at a book buyers meeting how all of the amtext profits went to m, in a way that was virtually untraceable.When asked how it was done, he replied that it was very complex(ie.-he didn't want to explain it), but it was something that many wealthy people do, and was passed in a rider to a bill in congress many years ago, for the express purpose of making large sums of money untraceable for wealthy people...
amtext profits go into an account for m that he can use either for himself or for tours.
some people estimate it to be about 1.5-2 million/yr.
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Date: Fri, Jul 28, 2000 at 10:21:46 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Ivorys Rock conference Centre(Qld 4306)
Message:
Found some interesting infor on EV Australia


Austratian Business Register: ABN Details - Business Entry Point

http: //www. abr. business. gov. au/asp/abndetail.asp?ABN=86081 336037

for 86081336037

Date and time retrieved: 28 Jul 2000 15:54:03

Record last modified on 18 May 2000

Register last updated from ATO on 13 Jul 2000

ABN: 86081336037

ABM Status: ActivefromOlNov 1999

Legal Name: ELAN VITAL INC

EntityTyipe: Other Incorporated Entity

State: QLD

Postcode: 4075

Trading Name(s): IVORYS ROCK CONFERENCE CENTRE (QLD 4306)

ELAN VITAL INC (QLD 4075)

GST: EffectivefromOlJul2000

Deductible

Gift Recipient:

ACM 0rARBM:

Ivorys Rock Conference Centre
Tel: (07) 5464 8200


Put a search on Ivorys Rock, but can not find any info. Any takers.

Anybody knows the exact address of Amoroo?

Salam

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Date: Fri, Jul 28, 2000 at 16:52:42 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: Ivory Rock Conference Center IS Amaroo
Message:
To the best of my knowledge, anyway. I think there was talk (not sure if it was actually done) about renting Amaroo to other groups for conferences as a way to make money.
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Date: Fri, Jul 28, 2000 at 22:26:22 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: Amazing....All I have to do is ask!..nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Fri, Jul 28, 2000 at 16:55:51 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: Link on Ex-Premie.org
Message:
http://www.ex-premie.org/pages/kanguru.htm
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Date: Fri, Jul 28, 2000 at 16:31:22 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: Ivorys Rock conference Centre
Message:
Some links on Ivorys Rock:

Conferences and Seminars - Tourism Attractions in Ipswich City

'Conference Venues:

Ivorys Rock Conference Centre
Tel: (07) 5464 8200'

IPSWICH EVENTS CORPORATION - EVENTS LISTING FOR APRIL

'23 to 3 May Heritage Week and Awards for Excellence in Heritage Design & Environment at Ivorys Rock Conference Centre, Peak Crossings. Phone Garth Moore, Ipswich City Council on (07) 3810 6252'

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Date: Fri, Jul 28, 2000 at 15:40:40 (GMT)
From: Crocodile Dundee
Email: Outback
To: Salam
Subject: Hey ,Richard Cranium!
Message:
Yeah , well you get to Ipswich and then you drive and drive. Then you take a turn off the main road, then you drive and drive. When you see a big rock you have gone too far. That's Ayers Rock. Turn around and drive 2000 klms back in the opposite direction. I'll get back to you Gringo.
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Date: Fri, Jul 28, 2000 at 08:49:33 (GMT)
From: hamzen
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Porkies bed technique
Message:
Yeah, I know, I'm sure I need professional help, but on a regular basis I can't help wondering just how he is with his numerous women, of course, only if the regular and well documented by reliable sources laundry service reports we get here are accurate.

We know he's a control freak, so he'd always have to be on top.
Even if you're a devotee, and it's the Lord of the Universe, or just a/the teacher (depending on his mood) that's on top of you and giving you one, that can't be easy. As we know he's hardly a lightweight, and it's hard to imagine him being anything but clumsy.

Remember him when 'dancing' his half monty in the 70's, or as Joe so beautifully put it
'There is no mention of his dancing abilities, including doing difficult movements while wearing gold crowns and even carrying a flute. And the total lack of shame he had such that he would wiggle his rotund body in front of thousands should be worth noting. It was pretty enigmatic.'. He is so obviously clumsy that unless you were a serious gopi then, it was always seriously embarrassing. Now he's lost even that spotty teenager shyness, and it's hard to imagine him spending more than a minute, without difficulty, actually giving pleasure to Monica down below.

We also know that he has more than a hint of Howard Hughes fastidiousness about him, so you'd think he'd use condoms, what with the mess of fluids and the risk of sexual infection, but he is obviously also totally self absorbed and the archetypal male me, me, me, which implies no condoms. Must be a big problem.

We also know his sexual crudeness from leaks in private and during satsangs, usually edited out afterwards, so he probably likes her to talk dirty.
For the same reason I reckon he's into porn movies, purely for the experience you understand, because after all, in this life, what else is there?

Also I'm certain he's like Clinton, ie loves his blow jobs.

Since he's also so into expensive electronic toys, I reckon he uses an expensive vibrator for her pleasures, only the best for his Monica. I wonder if the poor women's house he bought her is decorated according to his wishes, he's never in any environment he doesn't completely control after all.

Finally, can you imagine his squeeky voice in your ear if you wanted it to be a bit more romantic,
quite.

If only someone would spill the beans about what he's like, so if there are any ex exes out there, I'd love to know what he's like in bed, post anonymously, I'm sure just this once Jim won't hassle you to reveal all and say your real name.

Apologies to any larger people out there about 'porky' etc, it's really the size of his bloated ego that needs prodding, so in this instance I'm breaking my own PC fastidiousness, again apologies.

And again from Joe, and nothing to do with this post, but it cracked me up so much I've got to put it in again (!)
'There is also no mention of the fact that Maharaji can drive a tractor. I personally saw this in the movie 'Who is Guru Maharaj Ji' which he did while someone sang in the background a song that that asks 'who is the artist of creation?' and 'who will be feeding all the people?' Such modesty he has to refrain from mentioning this.'

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Date: Sat, Jul 29, 2000 at 17:06:47 (GMT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: hamzen
Subject: Porkies bed technique
Message:
Dear ham,
Reading your post makes me wish I had time to read the whole thread and put some fun time into writing my imaginary senerio for the little m! :) Also makes me miss all of you that I know and miss here. Looks like a phone will be coming to the inside of the hotel in August and can the internet hook up be far behind!? :) I saw your last post to me in the inactive but yes, the broom is still in hand and I may well stay on beyond the summer at the Adams Family Mansion. I LOVE it there and just found out about a school for kids in trouble that is 14 miles from the hotel so I am going to inquire about work there. Poor pay I am sure but 14 miles one way compared to 82 is significant! :)
So much happening, will try to write soon. Hope things are improving for you.
I feel like making a list of people to say hi to but that would be silly, eh? You know if you know me and if that is the case I miss you and wish you well.
Love to all and to you too hammy, :)
Robyn
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Date: Sun, Jul 30, 2000 at 07:52:05 (GMT)
From: ham
Email: None
To: Robyn
Subject: Good to hear from ya
Message:
Finally called it a day at work, gonna be a bit hairy, but what the shit. Share details with you soon.

Really pleased for ya re the mansion, your broom technique must be pretty hot by now! :)

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Date: Sat, Jul 29, 2000 at 02:11:18 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: hamzen
Subject: Q: Is God in Human Form just plain ugly?
Message:
I'm usually not one for theological questions but this one's got me: is it possible that God in Human Form is simply ugly? Could the Lord Almighty, the Supreme Power, the Wolf in Sheep's Clothing, be unpleasant to look at?

If so, one can begin to see why Maharaji would want to relinquish that title. Well, more power to him. It's hard enough for married family men to find dates these days. And especially in Malibu where there's just so much money and beauty to compete with. Good on ya', Maharaji. All the way, bud.

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Date: Sat, Jul 29, 2000 at 02:23:03 (GMT)
From: ham
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: UUrgh, that gave me the shivers
Message:
I'm usually not one for theological questions but this one's got me: is it possible that God in Human Form is simply ugly? Could the Lord Almighty, the Supreme Power, the Wolf in Sheep's Clothing, be unpleasant to look at?'

Reading that I just imagined the look on his face in close up as he was about to come, god wasn't that womans experience at 3pm gross, hey that's probably the quickest anyone has ever become an ex!!

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Date: Sat, Jul 29, 2000 at 02:30:59 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: ham
Subject: But why didn't Marolyn ever call me at 3 am?
Message:
I know what you mean, Ham. It must have been weird for that girl. Mind you, it's not as if she didn't lead him on or anything. Imagine she sued Maharaji for sexual harrassment or something. His lawyer's bound to ask questions like:

Excuse me, ma'am, but did you not plaster your walls with Mr. Rawat's pictures?

And did you not cry out to him to dance half naked in front of you and your friends?

In fact, didn't you chase him half-way around the world at times just to kiss his feet?

How many times did you kiss his feet?

How many people did you tell you loved him?

Didn't you give up your boyfriend for him?

And this songbook here, 'Love Songs to Maharaji', wasn't this yours?

Indeed, ma'am, what did you expect was going to happen?

Hm??!

I don't know how people could blame Maharaji for something like this.

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Date: Sat, Jul 29, 2000 at 01:43:22 (GMT)
From: fly on the wall
Email: None
To: hamzen
Subject: Porkies bed technique
Message:
I have heard two things in relation to your question.
One was that a woman from NY, who I will not name, was extremely devoted to m for years, had been in the ashram etc.,and was at a conference for instructors with him.
She was quite attractive, long blond hair, blue eyes, which seems to fit his style...
He called her at her hotel room at about 3am after one session and said that he couldn't get her out of his mind.he asked her to come over to his room for the rest of the night.
She was so freaked out, she left the conference and has not been back since.

A friend of hers in the malibu community was also propositioned by the great one and took him up on it.
When asked how it was, she replied that it was the wierdest night of her life.
When asked if he was any good, she replied,no,in fact terrible!

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Date: Sun, Jul 30, 2000 at 16:24:00 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: fitzroy@liverpool.ac.uk
To: fly on the wall
Subject: Porkies bed technique
Message:
One was that a woman from NY, who I will not name, was extremely devoted to m for years, had been in the ashram etc.,and was at a conference for instructors with him. She was quite attractive, long blond hair, blue eyes, which seems to fit his style... He called her at her hotel room at about 3am after one session and said that he couldn't get her out of his mind.he asked her to come over to his room for the rest of the night.

She was so freaked out, she left the conference and has not been back since.

Hi fly, (touch the sky..?)

Intriguing stuff. You say you won't name the woman involved - and it's probably for the best that you didn't. But you obviously know her name, and I wouldn't mind betting she must have gone through something psychologically devastating given that it was an instructor's conference she was attending, but hasn't been back since.

Are you still in contact? Do you think she might be willing to talk about any of this here? It might do her some good, and it would certainly be useful for everyone to read a first-hand account of M's extra-marital predatory behaviour, if that's what really happened.

Premies consider stories like these to be just hearsay and gossip, but one of these days somebody will flesh one of them out a little (if that's right expression!), tell the whole story and expose M for the cynical manipulator he has always been.

(Though I guess she may have been paid to keep quiet about it.)

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Date: Sat, Jul 29, 2000 at 02:16:05 (GMT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: fly on the wall
Subject: You should know better
Message:
You should know better than write this stuff on this forum because you know it's gonna end up on that despicable web site the section called

Maharaji's affairs

See what a bit of gossip can do? Now it's saved for posterity, for all to read. Some people have no discrimination.

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Date: Sat, Jul 29, 2000 at 02:34:46 (GMT)
From: fly
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: You should know better
Message:
just had one question.
would the woman have a better experience if he was ...
a)totally in the buff
b)decked out in mala
c)wearing latest fashionable headgear (ie.The Crown)
d)panama hat
e)some of the above
f)none of the above
f)all of the above
g)doesn't matter, she'd be so blissed out in any form
h)doesn't matter, she'd be in her mind and be dazed at the 'lila'
i)doesn't matter, she's be puking in the bathroom...
a)totally naked
b
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Date: Sat, Jul 29, 2000 at 03:00:05 (GMT)
From: hamzen
Email: None
To: fly
Subject: Yeah, but say his pecker's REALLY tiny,
Message:
would she laugh?

And would he say, it's all in the experience, as he watches it shrink even more?

I reckon he'd be terrified of rejection.

And do ya reckon he's ever had sex with a non-premie other than by paying?

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Date: Sat, Jul 29, 2000 at 03:06:41 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: hamzen
Subject: It's like a seed.... (nt)
Message:
fffff
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Date: Sat, Jul 29, 2000 at 01:58:57 (GMT)
From: ham
Email: None
To: fly on the wall
Subject: Don't ya just know it
Message:
Thanks for that fly.

Thought that had to be the reality, but was trying to be fair to him, frightening stuff!

I reckon he's used his position big-time probably because he would never get a shag otherwise, you just know the guy is socially inept, god can you imagine what the inside of his head must be like after the truly bizarre non-life he's not led.

How could it be otherwise, regular good sex has got to be between equals, and how is such a control freak ever gonna be equal with anyone?

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Date: Sun, Jul 30, 2000 at 15:54:52 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: ham
Subject: When/if he can't get it up
Message:
When/if he can't get his little (allegedly) thingy up (I wonder what he calls it), he probably blames it on who he's with, since he's never to blame for anything. Something like 'It's because you're not feeling enough devotion.'

Of course, he probably wouldn't view her as a partner, since that would involve equality. I wonder what kind of weird control trips he plays or if he likes to have his feet more than just kissed. We already know he likes to have them kissed. Yeck.

However, maybe he likes to get down on all fours like a dog and be submissive. Some men with a lot of worldly power are into that. She's there, dressed up in a dominatrix outfit (like Krishna?), or maybe just a mala, and beats him with a stick and says 'You've been a bad guru! Now kiss my feet!'. You know, like a reversal of the dominance/submission game he plays with his followers.

Ok, I have to stop before I puke.

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Date: Sun, Jul 30, 2000 at 22:46:43 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: G
Subject: hahahahaha....
Message:
The last paragraph is too much. I pictured him...LOL

I bet you he just lays there like a sack of potatoes...I heard he is very shy and insecured...

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Date: Sat, Jul 29, 2000 at 01:56:29 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: fly on the wall
Subject: Thank god for anonymity!
Message:
sometimes :)
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Date: Fri, Jul 28, 2000 at 22:25:10 (GMT)
From: Lotus eater
Email: None
To: hamzen
Subject: Porkies bed technique
Message:
Well, possibly he likes the doggy position....

No seriously, we have lots of pointers, we know how he loves to tease....promises, promises, abuse, promises.....could he be unable to deliver????

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Date: Sat, Jul 29, 2000 at 01:29:47 (GMT)
From: ham
Email: None
To: Lotus eater
Subject: You mean like viagra as the holy name! (nt)
Message:
a
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Date: Fri, Jul 28, 2000 at 14:33:43 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: hamzen
Subject: driving a tractor
Message:
I saw a fundraising video years ago the purpose of which was to raise mega-bucks for Rawat's Malibu Marble Mansion. It showed the beginnings of construction of his new mansion. It showed him driving a tractor and looking very pleased. That supposedly showed that the quasi-Lord of the Universe, being ever so humble, deigned to lift a finger to do some token help in the construction of the mansion that was ... for him. Oh yes, his driving that tractor inspired the premeis to work harder faster longer, to give more and more money. I don't remember to whom premies wrote out checks for this, but it sure wasn't Seva Corporation.
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