Forum V: Archive
Compiled: Sun, Sep 10, 2000 at 19:08:00 (GMT)
From: Sep 02, 2000 To: Sep 09, 2000 Page: 2 Of: 5


Sir Dave -:- My affair with the light (a true story) -:- Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 00:03:41 (GMT)
__ Lotus Eater -:- no divine guidance, just the golden hamsters words -:- Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 20:27:15 (GMT)
__ Hal -:- My affair with the light (a true story) -:- Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 10:49:28 (GMT)
__ __ Sir Dave -:- My affair with the light (a true story) -:- Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 11:53:13 (GMT)
__ __ __ Hal -:- Wow SD seems your light experience was heavy! nt -:- Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 12:36:06 (GMT)
__ sam -:- My affair with the light (a true story) -:- Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 06:51:28 (GMT)
__ buzz -:- My affair with the light (a true story) -:- Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 05:30:00 (GMT)
__ Michael -:- So, I guess you really weren't enjoying that -:- Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 03:48:29 (GMT)
__ Sai billba -:- Time for a knowledge review! -:- Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 03:01:41 (GMT)
__ __ Keneth Keyz -:- sore dave -:- Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 09:26:48 (GMT)

Elan Vital -:- More Answers to Frequently Asked Questions -:- Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 18:54:02 (GMT)
__ Jim -:- Excellent! (nt) -:- Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 00:47:39 (GMT)
__ A Synchronized Beaver -:- The Purest Channel -:- Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 19:36:17 (GMT)
__ __ Elan Vital -:- Opportunities for Participation -:- Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 21:22:33 (GMT)
__ __ __ Jim -:- This is so good it deserves its own site! -:- Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 16:01:14 (GMT)
__ __ __ Elan Vital -:- You may also contact us.. -:- Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 21:47:05 (GMT)
__ __ Gregg, an ex-Ex -:- The Purest Channel -:- Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 20:02:29 (GMT)

Jerry -:- Hey, Shroom -:- Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 17:34:55 (GMT)
__ Yves -:- HAS RAWAT STOPPED BEATING HIS WIFE YET? -:- Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 01:08:23 (GMT)
__ Shroomananda -:- It used to be called Divine LIGHT Mission, Jerry. -:- Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 21:26:43 (GMT)
__ __ Nigel -:- Shroom writes: 'As a matter of fact, I have my .. -:- Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 00:52:52 (GMT)
__ __ __ Shroomananda -:- Yeah, I have my moments of stupidity, insecurity -:- Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 01:05:04 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Rob -:- Oh there you are!! -:- Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 01:14:34 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Shroomananda -:- I reserve the right to say that someone is special -:- Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 01:22:37 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Hal -:- You're on the ropes Shroo -:- Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 06:37:22 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Rob -:- More data needed -:- Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 01:28:24 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Shroomananda -:- I'm tired of posting to you and reading your posts -:- Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 01:35:46 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Rob -:- Just when we starting to get along.... -:- Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 03:04:47 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Nigel -:- Can't anwser, won't answer... -:- Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 02:16:31 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Rob -:- Just a matter of pushing the right buttons -:- Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 03:08:19 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Salam -:- And it's working. -:- Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 10:21:55 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Rob -:- Turn up the volume a little -:- Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 20:52:30 (GMT)
__ __ Salam -:- That would be a biased experiment -:- Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 23:24:36 (GMT)
__ __ Jerry -:- You don't even know what it is -:- Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 23:23:12 (GMT)
__ Yves -:- And it is spinal tap -:- Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 19:44:11 (GMT)
__ __ Michael -:- Um, Yves, is there some medicine you forgot -:- Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 21:34:42 (GMT)
__ __ __ Yves -:- Who? Me? Paranoid? Why? Not at all. -:- Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 00:20:48 (GMT)
__ __ __ Sir Dave -:- Don't look now but -:- Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 23:28:30 (GMT)
__ Yves -:- Sex, greed, cheating, lies. What an opera. -:- Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 19:41:57 (GMT)
__ __ Yves -:- I'd say Muppets from space rather than Spinal Tap -:- Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 00:54:55 (GMT)
__ Yves -:- In Canada, we had Kim Cambell... -:- Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 19:35:43 (GMT)
__ Yves -:- God is like an american president.. -:- Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 19:34:29 (GMT)
__ Yves -:- Did you get a stiffy during morning meditations? -:- Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 19:31:57 (GMT)
__ __ Yves -:- I got my dilatation during meditation -:- Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 00:34:19 (GMT)
__ __ __ sai billda -:- I got my dilatation during meditation -:- Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 03:18:36 (GMT)
__ __ __ Yves -:- I meant my dick's attention after meditation -:- Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 00:39:20 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Scott T. -:- I meant my dick's attention after meditation -:- Thurs, Sep 07, 2000 at 23:19:13 (GMT)
__ Yves -:- I read in my Alpha Bits the Holy bit smells like.. -:- Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 19:26:20 (GMT)
__ Yves -:- I wonder how it is to have a goddess wisper to it. -:- Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 19:24:11 (GMT)
__ Yves -:- Bulb-a-gun-Jeep was somewhat weird -:- Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 19:20:13 (GMT)
__ __ Yves -:- Sorry. I meant Bubble-gum-jeep. -:- Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 00:24:27 (GMT)
__ Yves -:- Is Ball-in-Gin mute or just plain dumb? -:- Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 19:16:21 (GMT)
__ __ Yves -:- Reject-Gin may have been the only honest one -:- Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 00:42:39 (GMT)
__ __ __ Yves -:- Is it Reject-Gin or Reject-Jeep? -:- Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 12:51:50 (GMT)
__ __ __ Yves -:- If Hasji is sneezy, who do you say Snow White is? -:- Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 01:00:02 (GMT)
__ Yves -:- Since Hans and Rawat are both bigamous... -:- Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 19:14:00 (GMT)
__ __ Yves -:- And now, for something completely outrageous... -:- Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 00:50:02 (GMT)
__ __ __ Yves -:- I'm expecting their lawyers any moment now. -:- Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 01:02:59 (GMT)
__ Yves -:- I wonder if Jagdeo fondled Rawat when he was a boy -:- Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 19:11:01 (GMT)
__ __ Yves -:- Do you imply he is not any more? -:- Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 01:06:32 (GMT)
__ __ Yves -:- Educated sources say... -:- Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 19:38:19 (GMT)
__ Yves -:- I just received a message from my Alpha Bits -:- Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 18:56:37 (GMT)
__ Yves -:- I always do what my Rice Krispies tell me -:- Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 18:45:09 (GMT)
__ __ Yves -:- Their dad's name was a sneeze: 'Hansji' -:- Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 18:59:32 (GMT)
__ __ __ Yves -:- His name is close to the holy name -:- Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 19:02:09 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ gerry -:- More 'wisdom' from Elaine -:- Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 19:21:57 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ billda -:- Egad! -:- Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 03:23:57 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Yves -:- Could you be a little less clear please. -:- Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 12:48:12 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Yves -:- I think I got the hidden message. -:- Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 13:10:56 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ sai billda -:- I think I got the hidden message. -:- Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 17:22:05 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Yves -:- This is hardcore satsang. -:- Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 19:30:22 (GMT)

Jim -:- Hey, premies, what do you think of this? -:- Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 15:36:45 (GMT)
__ sai billda -:- she says 'even in my insanity..'correct! nt -:- Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 03:06:39 (GMT)
__ Yves -:- Am I allowed to answer if I'm no premie? -:- Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 18:22:48 (GMT)
__ gerry -:- Hey, premies, what do you think of this? -:- Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 16:14:35 (GMT)
__ __ Gregg -:- typo in last sent: insanity should read inanity nt -:- Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 16:46:16 (GMT)

Jim -:- Ah, the new-age mud bath of paradox! -:- Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 15:30:25 (GMT)
__ Tonette -:- Reminds me of -:- Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 09:06:25 (GMT)
__ sai billda -:- Somebody get him a pet! nt -:- Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 03:26:33 (GMT)

recent ex -:- maharaji-you are so fuckin stupid!!!!!!!!!!!! -:- Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 04:06:43 (GMT)
__ Shroomananda -:- Got anything SPECIFIC to say, recent ex? How -:- Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 04:25:14 (GMT)
__ __ Joe -:- Are you really that condescending and cynical? -:- Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 16:52:20 (GMT)
__ __ Rob -:- Engaging your mouth before your brain is in gear -:- Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 16:28:20 (GMT)
__ recent ex -:- maharaji-you are so fuckin stupid!!!!!!!!!!!! -:- Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 04:17:02 (GMT)
__ __ Hal -:- That lead weight -:- Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 17:57:31 (GMT)
__ __ Curious George -:- The Unbelievable Lightness of Being -:- Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 17:26:14 (GMT)
__ __ __ Hal -:- Yes indeed! well said george nt -:- Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 17:59:27 (GMT)
__ __ gerry -:- awesome, I'm very happy for you RE -:- Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 04:31:47 (GMT)
__ __ __ ExTex -:- Who's Monitering This Site -:- Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 05:14:38 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Glen Whittaker -:- I am (nt) -:- Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 02:57:20 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ David Smith -:- Me too (nt) -:- Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 02:58:15 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Rosie Lee -:- Hi David, how are you honey? (nt) -:- Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 03:18:56 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Linda Gross -:- And me (nt) -:- Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 02:59:13 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Sharon Stokke -:- And me (nt) -:- Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 03:02:03 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Mahatma Gurucharanand -:- And me (nt) -:- Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 03:02:52 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Padarthanand -:- Really? Me too. (nt) -:- Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 03:17:30 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jagdeo -:- Me too, but don't tell anybody where I am, ok?nt -:- Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 03:22:32 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Joan Apter -:- Don't forget me (nt) -:- Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 03:04:47 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Raja Ji -:- Or me (nt) -:- Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 03:06:17 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Wadi Sue -:- Or me (nt) -:- Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 03:07:42 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Pauline Premie -:- Can be a monitor to do participation?(nt) -:- Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 03:09:12 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Elan Vital -:- You have to send in an application.(nt) -:- Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 03:14:08 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Gum JI LI -:- Sorry for being late. Me too..nt -:- Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 10:42:29 (GMT)

Rob -:- Let's take center stage shall we, shroomananda? -:- Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 02:07:54 (GMT)
__ Shroomananda -:- Who says you or anyone else has to 'worship' -:- Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 02:20:53 (GMT)
__ __ Rob -:- Now we're getting down to the wire. -:- Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 02:47:35 (GMT)
__ __ __ Shroomananda -:- Sorry, I was watching the Broncos and the Rams. -:- Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 03:40:54 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Rob -:- Shroom, you're losing it -:- Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 16:08:38 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Shroomananda -:- I don't know about a divine being, Rob. That's -:- Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 21:37:31 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Rob -:- Another none answer -:- Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 23:09:07 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Shroomananda -:- Of course you experienced something when you -:- Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 23:17:34 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Rob -:- Of course you didn't answer any questions, shroom, -:- Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 23:34:30 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Rob -:- What, can't get through to Mailibu shroom? -:- Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 23:52:58 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Jethro -:- And don't forget that hans was drowning in -:- Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 04:01:33 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Shroomananda -:- Yeah, there are a lot of 'myths' around powerful -:- Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 04:31:06 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Jethro -:- Fool on the hill -:- Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 04:35:59 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Shroomananda -:- Fool on the hill? -:- Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 04:49:50 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Hal -:- Have you noticed Shroo -:- Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 07:35:00 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Stonor -:- And Hal, at least one non-anything, too -:- Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 16:50:19 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Hal -:- Thanks Stonora love to you too , nt -:- Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 18:02:44 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jethro -:- Strange musing but -:- Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 09:14:57 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jethro -:- The big lie is that there is no such thing as -:- Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 05:34:13 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Shroomananda -:- I don't know anything about 'you people', Jethro. -:- Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 05:44:46 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jethro -:- You are in the same mind-set as holocaust deniers -:- Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 06:01:51 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Shroomananda -:- You really are out there, Jethro. Comparing the -:- Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 06:06:16 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jethro -:- The only thing really important to a devoted Nazi -:- Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 06:16:02 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Shroomananda -:- So what's important to you, Jethro? -:- Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 06:22:15 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jethro -:- So what's important to you, Jethro? -:- Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 06:50:22 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Marianne -:- Yes, you are the fool on the hill -:- Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 04:55:55 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Shroomananda -:- Okay, Marianne, I'll talk to you. Since you are so -:- Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 05:02:42 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Marianne -:- You don't pay attention, do you? -:- Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 05:09:11 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Shroomananda -:- Do you remember every person and every post -:- Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 05:16:07 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Marianne -:- Ignorance is bliss! -:- Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 05:19:54 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Shroomananda -:- I found your entry, Marianne. It was under the B -:- Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 05:57:47 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Shroomananda -:- Still don't see a 'Marianne' in the Journeys -:- Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 05:25:04 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Stonor -:- Count six down on the left. Click on Marianne -:- Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 05:49:21 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Shroomananda -:- I found it, Stonor. Did you read it? Very -:- Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 06:03:08 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Stonor -:- I found it, Stonor. Did you read it? Very -:- Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 06:30:57 (GMT)
__ __ __ Rob -:- ET call home? -:- Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 03:06:52 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Michael -:- ET call home? -:- Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 03:12:20 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ ExTex -:- Shredding Shroom -:- Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 05:03:58 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Oliver -:- ET call home? -:- Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 04:49:27 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Rob -:- Fungal infection -:- Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 16:41:16 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Salam -:- You could be right...nt -:- Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 14:41:46 (GMT)


Date: Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 00:03:41 (GMT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: sirdavid12@hotmail.com
To: Everyone
Subject: My affair with the light (a true story)
Message:
I never used to meditate on light much as a premie but a few years ago as an ex-premie, I decided to try it for a few weeks. So every day I did the first technique for about 15 mins or more and after about a week I was seeing a lot of light and it was with me all of the time, whether I did the technique or not.

After about ten days I started to get blinding, terrible headaches as a side effect of looking at the light so much. The more I gazed at the light, the worse the pain in my head became and yet it was very easy to see the light; it was there all of the time and all I had to do was be in a dimly lit room and I could gaze at it for ages.

After about two weeks, the pain in my head was becoming serious and I was becoming very ill because of it. I realised that this was due to my time spent gazing at this inner light every day. The more I gazed, the more the pain increased and I was not doing any finger technique of course, by now.

I had a realisation. I realised that this light was not divine but was actually a light created by my optic nerve. By concentrating on this light, I was overstimulating the optic nerve and giving myself terrible neuralgia. This 'divine light' was really the result of the optic nerve bending in upon itself and it was very damaging to me to do this practise. I think if I had continued this practise of gazing at the light, I would have become blind or at least irrepairably damaged my optic nerves.

I stopped gazing at the light and gradually it became less and less and the pain subsided. I had realised that this divine light was simply an optical illusion which got worse the more I concentrated on it. It was not God and it was most damaging and dangerous. It became very bright at times and that's when the pain was at its worse, just after a bright light episode.

I have also had a similar bad experience from meditating on the third technique or the breath. I have got deeper and deeper into it and yet as a side effect, I have got blinding headaches, nausea and mental disorientation.

With the nectar technique, I have also experienced negative side effects such as dizziness. My point is this. The knowledge is not divine. It is four meditation techniques which can be harmful as much as useful, perhaps more so. The realisation I got when this occured to me was completely stunning. Because for years it had been imprinted on me that this was divine knowledge from God that could only benefit people.

My realisation was that it was just another way to warp and bend your consciousness. There was no divine guidance behind it any more than if you hit your head with a brick. It was flawed knowledge and it could do immense damage to any person who attempted to get deep into it.

I say this with the complete authority of one who has explored meditation upon these techniques and where they take one to. Yes, there have been some good experiences from meditation but there is also the potential for serious damage from them also. They are not divine, they are simply physical methods of trying to squeeze your consciousness into alternative states. It can be good but it can also be very harmful.

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Date: Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 20:27:15 (GMT)
From: Lotus Eater
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: no divine guidance, just the golden hamsters words
Message:
Agreed, agreed. The carrot actually sucks!

Talk about the damage of the meditation techniques, my basic senses were affected in the end, vision, hearing, smell, touch, not to mention the horribly deluded disordered thinking and feeling.

A friend of mine recently confessed that she stopped meditating very quickly after receiving K from M because as soon as she sat down she would experience waves of panic.

I know a premie would have a stupid explanation for that and why she should persist. I am grateful she had the sense not to.

As far as I can determine, in the same way that some people are built for football and some are not, and would be seriously damaged if they went out on the pitch, some people are not suited to meditation, it's use at best should be on a casual basis and not a religious one.

I guess I fall towards the unsuited category, but closer to the middle than my friend. I meditated for two decades, and was okay until I started to do more than the 'minimum'.

And that's the thing that bothers me; the initial stages of overdoing it are stronger experiences which only encourages you to do it more. When Jim posts poetry from elkland, or Shroo intimates his enjoyment of M & K, I fear for them because my experience was so terrible. I try to counter this by reminding myself that they are different to me, but i think it is similar to acid, a bad trip on meditation is going to happen at some stage if you do it long enough. No big problem as long as you don't believe in the shining hamster, god, sorry Dave, now I am going to have to express my pet peeve:

If you like it fine, if you don't, walk.........just what is this Knowledge supposed to be, then, you grubby little guru, knowledge of the divine for all mankind, ps if you can't do it then you're subhuman? When instructors and fuckface are going around saying that this knowledge is not for everyone, then surely it is no longer, nor ever has been relevant to me. Mr silly fucking Rawat you can have it back. Lesley, (ooh I'm just so angry with him this morning)

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Date: Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 10:49:28 (GMT)
From: Hal
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: My affair with the light (a true story)
Message:
Dave did you press on the eyeballs when doing light technique ?

Maha reformed it to a non pressing version in the early eighties,and even dispensed with calling it light technique, probably because a lot of people didn't see light without the pressure on the optic nerve.

I now I just focus between my eyebrows without any fingers and sometimes see a glow in there , without any apparent ill effects.

Hal

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Date: Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 11:53:13 (GMT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: Hal
Subject: My affair with the light (a true story)
Message:
No I did not press my eyeballs or even touch my eyes. I just concentrated between my eyebrows and as I wrote in my story, I saw the light quite easily after a while without doing any finger technique.
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Date: Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 12:36:06 (GMT)
From: Hal
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: Wow SD seems your light experience was heavy! nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 06:51:28 (GMT)
From: sam
Email: -
To: Sir Dave
Subject: My affair with the light (a true story)
Message:
Dave,
Ive never understood this experience but this is what happened to my mum who later became a premie:
Her youngest daughter died and she prayed for help (she was also a bit cynical)and she had an amazing experience of light and a great feeling. Thats why she later got k because of the light exp. and me telling her about light in k. She experienced a bit of light at k session- when Vic put his fingers in her lids- but not like her previous exp.(she thought it would grow- it didnt).
I have seen bright purple light after sex- dont know what that means either......anyway...
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Date: Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 05:30:00 (GMT)
From: buzz
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: My affair with the light (a true story)
Message:
i was reading some peoples experiences on the kundalini help site recently.these people really have messed themselves up through doing differant techniques,a number of times usually using the breath i.ve had to pul;l myself out as theres been rushes of enegy up the spine and weird movents of energy in the head,trouble is i keep going back for more just to see what will happen next,you know the trip will i get enlightened this time.its a terible addiction fostered by these teachers,gopi krishnas book on his kundalini experiences is real freaky.
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Date: Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 03:48:29 (GMT)
From: Michael
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: So, I guess you really weren't enjoying that
Message:
free gift, huh? Well, I know someone who DOES enjoy it, and he enjoys listening to Maharaji, too. AND he is a truth seeker!
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Date: Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 03:01:41 (GMT)
From: Sai billba
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: Time for a knowledge review!
Message:
Ira Woods once was at the lords feet thanking him for the light he was seeing lately. mama's boy lord rawat said 'that is the light of the mind'
Little did he know that for once he was right!
Of course Ira was still stuck 'scratching at the wall of steel 900 feet thick' as rawat explained to the instructors once that that was thier condition as far as getting to 'the experiece'.
Always you are in a hopeless condition.
No graduation class from the master!
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Date: Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 09:26:48 (GMT)
From: Keneth Keyz
Email: None
To: Sai billba
Subject: sore dave
Message:
sore dave.
make thine eye single.
headaches//schmeadaches
just don't eat melons after a meal.
they digest quicker..
I could be wrong but...
I don't real lee think so
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Date: Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 18:54:02 (GMT)
From: Elan Vital
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: More Answers to Frequently Asked Questions
Message:
A number of us at Elan Vital were forced to sit in hourss of meditation over the Labor Day weekend just to keep peaceful and centered after reading more unsubstantiated, anonymous, scurrilous and insulting attacks of both Elan Vital and Maharaji over the Internet. We are appalled and shocked about these things, as you can imagine, but because we have the supreme experience, we remain loving and ethical creatures beyond any you have met who do not have this Knowledge.

Fortunately, the experience that comes from the practice of Knowledge allows us to be peaceful, in love, and lacking in judgment of all the degenerate, slimy, negative, bitter, pig-people, whose only joy in life is hurting good people and organizations by posting vicious lies about Elan Vital and Maharaji on the Internet. We are so grateful that we aren't judgmental, of these mean, (mostly anonymous) sub-humans, all due to the experience of that Knowledge, and we only want to do our job better. We have a strict policy about the fact that we are not judgmental or vindictive, as you can imagine anyone experiencing supreme love would not be.

The most recent anonymous, nay-sayer is 'recent ex,' who posted five completely unfounded, outrageous, and confused criticisms of Maharaji that both shocked and sickened Elan Vital. Our policy of not making Elan Vital shocked and sickened was violated numerous times by this disgusting monster.

Among other mean and vicous things, 'recent-ex' says that Maharaji doesn't answer questions seriously, that Maharaji's instructors don't talk in a 'real way,' and that the videos don't have real answers, but the 'same old horseshit, refried numerous times.' We were so appalled and shocked by these things, several of us immediately watched three videos of Maharaji speaking in June of this year in Alexandria, Virginia.

Well, all we can say to these outrageous and untrue statements is to restate the introduction of our website, which states, clearly, in colors, timing, along with background pictures that give new meaning to the word 'synchronization,' that:

KNOWLEDGE:

It's about PEOPLE
It's about LIFE
It's about ENJOYMENT
It's about THIRST
It's about A FEELING
It's about PEOPLE
It's about YOU

Now this just couldn't be clearer and should answer all your questions, and it would, were it not for the fact that you are in your mind, confused, and have the committment and consciousness of a night crawler. If you would just listen more, and more, and more, and more, like watch videos for a reasonable period of time, like three years, and stop thinking, or, we mean, get rid of all your preconceptions, it would all be clear as a bell, because this Knowledge is so simple and beautiful and available to anyone, regardless of ability, as long as their lives are completely committed to it and Maharaji before ever receiving it. Isn't it wonderful how easy and open this Knowledge is?

As we also clearly state on the Elan Vital website, Maharaji has said, more than once we are sure, that everyone should make up their own minds about whether Kknowledge works for them. Of course, the sentence after that one on our website says that the only reason anyone would reject Knowledge is because they 'lack the committment and effort necessary to practice it.' We have a clear and non-contradictory policy about this, specifically that this couldn't be more open and clear, and completely non-judgmental.

And we would like to add emphatically here, that Maharaji never, ever said, ever, never, let us emphasize, and we have a policy that he did not ever say, not ever, no way, that anything bad would happen to people who were so stupid and lazy that they stopped practicing knowledge. We here at Elan Vital have a clear policy, and have had since we changed our name from that Hindu-concept-laden organization, Divine Light Mission, that Maharaji has never, ever, not ever, no way, talked about rotting vegetables or going to hell, or blasting into thousands of pieces, if you were such an ignorant, slimy, slut that you decided Knowledge didn't work for you. He never, ever said such Hindu-concept-laden things, not ever, and besides, he doesn't say them any more. In fack, Elan Vital will soon have a short video on our website in which Maharaji makes this chrystal clear, let us assure you. We are just working like synchronized beavers getting that together.

In fact, we at Elan Vital, believe strongly, and have a written policy saying so, that EVERYONE should make up their own minds about whether 1) they love and have gratitude for knowledge, or, in the alternative, 2) they are lazy and uncommitted bastards who don't have the brains or follow-through of a fruit fly to practice Knowledge. Both of those alternatives are clearly possible, as we say clearly on our website, and you would understand if you had any backbone, consciousness, or insight whatsoever. Again our policy is to be non-judgmental, and just let people make up their own minds about whether Knowledge works for them or not. This is one of the major things about Elan Vital that distinguish us from a cult, that we are not a closed system and are open to new views and understandings. We are sure you will find this attractive.

Finally, Maharaji has said clearly that you can't have preconceived notions about knowledge, or else it doesn't work. And because you are both lazy and have preconceptions, your questions never get answered by the always completely clear and insightful statements of Maharaji and his instructors.

You have to have a 'clean slate' as Maharaji so eloquently, coloqueally, and masterfully states it, and as we have quoted him saying on our website, or else this gift will not work. As Maharaji said, just like a gardner won't plant a tree where another tree is already growing, so the master will not plant Knowledge where there are preconceptions. Isn't this just the clearest and most brilliant thing you have ever heard in your life? And we have a policy at Elan Vital that this answers all questions, at least for anyone with any kind of human consciousness, about both Maharaji and that Knowledge.

The requirement to have a 'clean slate,' of course, does not conflict in the least bit with Maharaji's statement that you don't have to give up your religion to receive or experience knowledge and Elan Vital, which is not a cult, and which has a long-standing policy about this. It all just makes perfect sense.

We at Elan Vital just hope that we and Maharaji will not have to bear the slings and arrows of these unfounded questions and attacks for much longer. But we just want to do our jobs better, so if it means being attacked and ridiculed on the Internet, we may just have to put up with it, and just practice knowledge with more effort and by experiencing all the openness and love that comes from that gift, until the unconsious scum you all are, are wiped from the dung heap you reside in by our capable lawyers who will be doing nothing more than protecting our copyright interests.

Yours, in ever-increasing synchronization:

ELAN VITAL: ABSOLUTELY NOT A CULT SINCE 1971

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Date: Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 00:47:39 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Elan Vital
Subject: Excellent! (nt)
Message:
rrr
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Date: Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 19:36:17 (GMT)
From: A Synchronized Beaver
Email: None
To: Elan Vital
Subject: The Purest Channel
Message:
Dear Holy of Holiest EV Spokesperson:

I, who used to be a common beaver, but now am fortunate by the Grace of Our Lord in Malibu to have become a Beaver partaking in participation in a synchronized fashion (hereinafter called 'A Synchronized Beaver'), am overjoyed at the clarity of your remarks to these unwashed guttersnipe scums of the earth exes. Forever now shall they bask in the reflected glory of our Lord in Malibu, just as the lowly Moon reflects the resplendent Sun's glorious Light, and all because of your Supreme Participation and Dedication and Selflessness by willingly exposing yourself, and in bringing Truth, to these albino eels with no eyes who live on the ocean floor blind to the Glories of Our Lord Who Resides in Malibu.

If ever I can be of synchronized assistance to you in bringing the Holy Word to these invertebrates, please please let me know.

I await, willing and able, to be Forever
Your Synchronized Beaver

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Date: Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 21:22:33 (GMT)
From: Elan Vital
Email: None
To: A Synchronized Beaver
Subject: Opportunities for Participation
Message:
Elan Vital appreciates your synchronized response and support. We want to point out that opportunities to do participation abound in our organization, which has no members and is not a cult, differing from a cult as it does in a number of significant ways which are too numerous to mention.

On our website, at www.elanvital.org, we have made available, through intensive teamwork without a traditional hierarchy, but nonetheless synchronized, an application for doing participation, which is 33 pages long, requiring pages of detailed information about you, including a picture, so we can have you thoroughly checked out before we let you near anything that we don't want plastered all over creation.

We will want to know that enough students whom we know you have that proper understanding, can vouch that you have that proper understanding as well, and this is the best way to do it, and clearly the most synchronized. But please, do not get the impression that Elan Vital is paranoid. We have a policy that we are not paranoid, and that we have not been paranoid for quite some time now.

Elan Vital does, however, have a problem with your use of the word 'Lord.' That is a Hindu concept that is very misleading to people and, we are afraid we will have to banish it from use while doing participation. We have a policy someplace about this, we are almost certain. It has only been by Maharaji's 'Herculean' effort that we have elimiated all those stupid Hindu concepts from Maharaji's mission so that no one would ever think Elan Vital is a cult. Maharaji has been supremely kind about doing this, since he wouldn't have to if he didn't want to, and could just stay up in his delapidated house in Malibu if he wanted to, and just ignore us.

Why, we at Elan Vital were reminded about how Maharaji has come so far in eliminating all the Hindu concepts, when we lined up in a fashion so synchronized it was almost beyond comprehension, and kissed Maharaji's feet, or, rather, showed gratitude, a couple of years ago in Australia at an event Elan Vital set up and then invited Maharaji to attend as a speaker. There was a lot of syncrhonized teamwork going on there.

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Date: Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 16:01:14 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Elan Vital
Subject: This is so good it deserves its own site!
Message:
EV,

Whoever you are, you need to put together a parody site. Really. That would be so cool. Now, who knows how to do that? Not me. I'm all talk. I don't even have a body. (Thank God for Dragon Software).

But if you've got the know-how, if someone does who's interested, you could put together something fantastic.

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Date: Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 21:47:05 (GMT)
From: Elan Vital
Email: None
To: Elan Vital
Subject: You may also contact us..
Message:
Elan Vital also has a policy to have a synchronized email address as follows:

ElanVital@wearenotacult/wereallyaren't.org

Please feel free to contact us and one of our teeming number of volunteers, on whom Elan Vital is dependant, will get right back to you.

Thank you again for showing that understanding of that gift.

In Synchronicity,

Elan Vital

ELAN VITAL: ABSOLUTELY NOT A CULT SINCE 1971

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Date: Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 20:02:29 (GMT)
From: Gregg, an ex-Ex
Email: None
To: foolish ex-premies
Subject: The Purest Channel
Message:
Thank you so much for that sparkling post. I have seen the error of my ways...I was in the Ex-Premie Forum cult for years, you know. And I believed everything they told me about Maharaji (or, the Lard, in exspeak): that he was was a philandering alcoholic, that the used to sit before crowds in a Krishna crown while they sung his praises, that he had no expertise whatsoever as a genuine spiritual teacher, that he has an unseemly obsession with material luxury, in short, that he is a pathetic and cruel cult leader.

I see that I was wrong, swayed by the slavering rhetoric of the fanatics on this site.

Maharaji is a simple man, a good man, and the only one on this terrible planet of ours who can take us from darkness to light, from all those confusing thoughts and feelings to that simple place inside. Knowledge. It's like ice cream, isn't it?

Hey, I feel a poem welling up inside of me! About gratitude...it's like a flower, I think I'll say.

Bye.

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Date: Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 17:34:55 (GMT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Hey, Shroom
Message:
I asked you what I thought was a pretty important question cocerning Maharaji's reply to people who claim they experience 'nothing' when they meditate. As I've said, to Maharaji, when you practice K there's no such thing as 'nothing'. You're always experiencing something, and that 'something' is your experience, what Knowledge is. So my question to you is, how do you reconcile your contention that you only experience Knowledge SOME of the time, when the 'master' contends that you experience it ALL of the time? If you think you see this 'light' only SOME of the time, you must have got something wrong. Right?
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Date: Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 01:08:23 (GMT)
From: Yves
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: HAS RAWAT STOPPED BEATING HIS WIFE YET?
Message:
Just asking a question. I'm not implying anything here.
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Date: Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 21:26:43 (GMT)
From: Shroomananda
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: It used to be called Divine LIGHT Mission, Jerry.
Message:
Right? Why do you think that was? In the bible, it says in John that 'God is light and in him is no darkness'.

Now I've seen light within me as a result of my practice of Knowledge. I don't all the time. Why not, you ask? I don't know. But I am a smart guy, Jerry, as you appear to be. Are we smart all the time? I don't know about you but sometimes I'm not. As a matter of fact, I have my moments of utter stupidity. After my 'stupid' moments, I ask myself, 'What was I thinking?' Where did my 'smarts' go? And the answer is that I don't know. I suspect that a similar dynamic is involved with the inner light. I know that I never saw it before Knowledge. I've seen it since but not all the time. Does that mean there is something wrong? I don't think so. If that divinity is within me, it must be shining all the time but my ability to perceive it is not. In the Upanishads, it says that one's focus during meditation should be like an unwavering candle. It's not that often that I'd describe my practice of Knowledge in that way.

You know, I'd be interested in taking a poll here and seeing how many others experienced that light within them. I know that some would say that it was a result of pressing the optic nerve or squeezing the eyeballs, but I think that there are many who would have to admit that at times during their practice, when they were really focused and or really experiencing love and devotion that they saw light. I've seen it where it was just a wavering flickering subtle light and I've also seen it as a really bright flashing light. The first time I saw Charanand speak, I closed my eyes while he was talking and it was like there was a headlight beaming straight through my forehead.

Hope that answers your question.

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Date: Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 00:52:52 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: None
To: Shroomananda
Subject: Shroom writes: 'As a matter of fact, I have my ..
Message:
moments of utter stupidity.'

(Nuff said?)

But you also say 'If that divinity is within me, it must be shining all the time but my ability to perceive it is not. '

Hey, why have you hopped onto the subject of divinity?

Why does a perceptual 'light' experience/sensation have to have anything to do with God / the immortal etc..? Let alone Maharaji?

Your approach to discussing any question, Shroom, seems no more than a feeble attempt to guide the world back to your only possible conclusion and explanation for all human experiences: that, yes, Maharaji is secretly God, Knowledge is his gift, Knowledge is happiness and well-being and that those who have rejected both lack your own special insight. Unhappiness is mind, etc..

Get real for five minutes, if you can. You sound desperately insecure to me. The wriggling evasions coupled with the need to keep talking and talking and talking and talking and talking (but barely listening)in multiple posts here: to win the arguments in your own mind, because nowhere else would want to hear them...

Nothing personal, Mike. I don't even know you, but you chose to share your confusions in a public place, so you get what you get. I hope you pay some attention to the replies, for your own sake.

(And quitting the cult could make you so much happier, if you but knew it. I suspect you are itching to do just that - but it can take a little time...)

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Date: Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 01:05:04 (GMT)
From: Shroomananda
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: Yeah, I have my moments of stupidity, insecurity
Message:
and confusion. Who doesn't, Nigel? Are you immune? Ever been stupid, confused or insecure, Nigel?

Hey, I'm just sharing my experience. I don't know if the light I've seen within me is divine. I don't know if Maharaji is divine. I practice Knowledge and I listen to him because it is enjoyable to do so. I don't question that. I pointed out the divine light and the God is light scriptural references to explain why I even investigated Knowledge in the first place. That's my background. I was raised a Catholic. Altar boy, confessional, holy communion, etc., was part of my frame of reference. The moment Knowledge no longer works or Maharaji is no longer enjoyable to listen to, I'll move along. But I've always wanted to know what my life is all about and Knowledge and Maharaji have been very effective tools to help me focus on that.

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Date: Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 01:14:34 (GMT)
From: Rob
Email: None
To: Shroomananda
Subject: Oh there you are!!
Message:
Thought we'd lost you. No such luck eh?:)

Can we talk a bit more about your pereption of Mr Rawat?

You just told Nigel:

I don't know if Maharaji is divine

And earlier, to me you said:

But don't give me that crap about Maharaji not being special. He is. He knows something.

Ok, well maybe these two statements are not mutually exclusive. Maybe. But it does lead to a little confusion as to what exactly you DO consider him to be?

Once we've cleared this up, perhaps we can move on to some other unanswered questions, okay?

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Date: Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 01:22:37 (GMT)
From: Shroomananda
Email: None
To: Rob
Subject: I reserve the right to say that someone is special
Message:
and knows something yet don't know if they are divine or not. You got a problem with that, Rob?
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Date: Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 06:37:22 (GMT)
From: Hal
Email: None
To: Shroomananda
Subject: You're on the ropes Shroo
Message:
Poor Shroo,

You're making a valiant and courageous stand in defence of your devotion to the cult and its charismatic leader but you're really getting pummeled. The problem for you in these discussions is that as a premie you haven't been encouraged to really think precisely about these spiritual concepts.

Premies tend to go through life with a blinkered focus on the fact that they are so fortunate to have nollij , even though they hardly ever have any profound experience. They are so grateful to be one of the masters sheep that they never investigate his credentials as a master.They almost never take a look around at other spiritual paths , meditations , psychological awareness or scientific theory.

Premies know all there is to know about the purpose of life because it is so simple. Just have the experience, that's it that's everything , the only true thing. Just that experience and loving the master. Forget the rest of humanity , they'll all wake up one day to the mindblowing fact that Lord has come in human form to save and redeem the world. These four amazing techniques will open up the realisation of the kingdom of heaven within inside everyone , then Mahahah can be King of the World , like JUBBA THE HUT in starwars, the true Lard.

No wonder you're losing on points Shrroo. I'd consider throwing in the towel if I were you.

A concerned hal

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Date: Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 01:28:24 (GMT)
From: Rob
Email: None
To: Shroomananda
Subject: More data needed
Message:
Special in what way shroom? What is it you think he *knows*? What makes you think he knows anything more than the rest of us?
Why doesn't he just come right out and tell us what he *knows* - he's a teacher after all? (and I'm not referring to the four secret techniques which he and half of India *know*)
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Date: Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 01:35:46 (GMT)
From: Shroomananda
Email: None
To: Rob
Subject: I'm tired of posting to you and reading your posts
Message:
so let's drop it. You believe what you want. Let me experience what I want. Your beliefs are true for you. I'm not going to convert you, and you are not going to convert me. So enjoy what you want to enjoy and I'll enjoy what I want to enjoy. Capice?
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Date: Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 03:04:47 (GMT)
From: Rob
Email: None
To: Shroomananda
Subject: Just when we starting to get along....
Message:
I've kinda known for a while I've been hitting the spot with you. Well I can't force a dialogue with you, but dwell on this a moment - I'm really no different from any of the other ex's here, in terms of your ability to 'convert' me, so what really is the purpose of you being here?

You stated early on you were only interested in the truth, well that works both ways. In the absence of any real impression of you as a living, breathing person, you know with a job, a family hobbies etc etc, it's easy to be dispassionate and interrogative when discussing knowledge with you.

I'm not going to go away, shroom, so stay away from my posts if you wish but I will continue to debunk and dissect any or all of your posts, if only for the benefit of the viewing public and my fellow ex's. Pretty soon you'll find they will follow my lead and you'll be left with noone to play your little game. Then what will you do?

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Date: Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 02:16:31 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: None
To: Shroomananda
Subject: Can't anwser, won't answer...
Message:
Shroom, why not just quit here and stop wasting everyone's time..?

Rob didn't ask you a trick question. Just a simple and obvious question a family member or workmate would ask.

What's the problem exactly?

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Date: Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 03:08:19 (GMT)
From: Rob
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: Just a matter of pushing the right buttons
Message:
It took a while but there they are:

Ask him about what/who he thinks Rawat is.

Challenge his view that the knowledge *belongs* to rawat.

Ask him one simple question at a time, so he can't dodge behind a multi-faceted post.

Challenge his view that rawat has any influence over a person's experiences in meditation.

Like I said to him above, if we all do this, maybe he'll get the message and bugger off.

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Date: Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 10:21:55 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Rob
Subject: And it's working.
Message:
I do not know if you noticed. But shroomji the broomji is definitly avoiding your posts. Notice how he never replies to mine. He feels left out because Jim is pissing him off. Stoner is out. In the above thread he is after Michael. Shall we go up then?
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Date: Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 20:52:30 (GMT)
From: Rob
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: Turn up the volume a little
Message:
Definately Salam, this slimy toad has gotten away with spewing his own sugary satsang out for quite long enough, IMO.

So he's going for the easy targets (no offence Michael). Not gonna happen. Sooner or later he has to start talking like a real person, or disappear altogether.

Don't let up, I won't.

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Date: Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 23:24:36 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Shroomananda
Subject: That would be a biased experiment
Message:
and a one sided argument. You should also do the same to premies,
(regarding the light). My vote is I can see light most of the time even without the technique, even with my eyes open, so die of envey.

Anyway shroomji the broomji, you sound like a stunch cathlic preacher that I come across walking down the street

' And the lord said, come into me and y will find the path and the gagagagagagagagaga'.

Do you feel that you have a mission in life shroomji the broomji?
Like telling us, we the sheep that have woundered of the path, to come back to the shepeard.
Or are you the representative of the fisherman?
You have heared this in many posts, but I will say it again, you are the most boaring person-premie on the form and you keep
repeating yourself over and over again.
Do something with yourself.
Unless I am mistaken, you must be a human. As a human, do you feel anything? Shut up. Do not talk about your piss merchant masterji, talk about yourself. What are, who are, do you have ambitions in life, do you have a wank, do you like it, you know stuff like that. I will help you for a start, tell us about five books that you read and what are your favorites CD?

Remember shroomji the broomji. It is ok to open up and streach your self, stop being such an ass hole. You and masterji are like a deep water diver who wears this very tight rubber skin for protection.
Nobody in here wants to hurt you. In fact I believe everyone will have sympathy for you if for once you really really try from the bottom of your heart to be really really sincear and really really want it. You know what I mean boofhead?

I mean you can see that I am not being really really mean to you now, so why do not you really really try it for a while. Do not worry, no body wants o convert you, I think that will be a shame, because you are the best example of a person who belives and is convinced to the seventh degree in what he says, so any attemps to do so will fail .

I mean you will die for masterji if he asks you, right?
So please stop the charade, we have all heard your point and we all disagree with you. What else can be said?

See you in the light and do not gumji's bugs bite

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Date: Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 23:23:12 (GMT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Shroomananda
Subject: You don't even know what it is
Message:
Hope that answers your question.

No, it doesn't. The question is how do you reconcile your experience with what Maharaji says Knowledge is? What you say it is isn't what Maharaji says it is. I don't know about headlights shining in my head, but I do know that there's something I see which is constant, which I guess you could call light for want of a better word. My personal belief is this is the 'light' Maharaji is talking about, the one that's always there. I also believe this is what realizing Knowledge is -- while you're waiting for this other bright light to appear you're oblivious of the one you're supposed to be meditating on; then one day you realize it, which can be quite a mind blower, like having cold water thrown in your face. So, in my book, you've got nothing to say about K, Shroom. You don't even know what it is. You haven't realized it, yet. But let me help you out. The 'light' Maharaji talks about is the one you see as soon as you turn off the lights. If you don't know what this means, you don't understand what M is talking about when he questions those who say they see 'nothing'.

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Date: Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 19:44:11 (GMT)
From: Yves
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: And it is spinal tap
Message:
The divine comedy of the eighties. Now imagine Rawat was to get killed in a limousine trying to escape photographers in Paris.
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Date: Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 21:34:42 (GMT)
From: Michael
Email: None
To: Yves
Subject: Um, Yves, is there some medicine you forgot
Message:
to take with your rice krispies? You do seem just a little manic.
Just asking.
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Date: Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 00:20:48 (GMT)
From: Yves
Email: None
To: Michael
Subject: Who? Me? Paranoid? Why? Not at all.
Message:
Hey Dooky! Pick-up the phone.

Wash-cloth!

Wash-up!

Ketzzup!

Wake-up!

Waddup!

Wazzup!

Hiccup!

Pick-up!

Wassabi!

About you?

Nothing much. Just chilling, watching the forum, having a gum.

True. True.

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Date: Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 23:28:30 (GMT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: Michael
Subject: Don't look now but
Message:
it's the Yves Late Show coming to you live on channel Forum 5.
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Date: Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 19:41:57 (GMT)
From: Yves
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: Sex, greed, cheating, lies. What an opera.
Message:
As a soap opera, it could run forever.

Jim said it looks like 'This is Spinal Tap'

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Date: Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 00:54:55 (GMT)
From: Yves
Email: None
To: Yves
Subject: I'd say Muppets from space rather than Spinal Tap
Message:
Where Gonzo receives a message from the ETs on his Alpha Bits.

And is left out of Noha's ark for being unique.

Quite spiritual. A must for premies and exes alike.

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Date: Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 19:35:43 (GMT)
From: Yves
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: In Canada, we had Kim Cambell...
Message:
but I could never decide wheter she was a goddess or a prime minister.
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Date: Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 19:34:29 (GMT)
From: Yves
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: God is like an american president..
Message:
it never comes as a woman. Think of this one.
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Date: Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 19:31:57 (GMT)
From: Yves
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: Did you get a stiffy during morning meditations?
Message:
And at night?
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Date: Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 00:34:19 (GMT)
From: Yves
Email: None
To: Yves
Subject: I got my dilatation during meditation
Message:
Nothing sacred here. Just plain healthy every day obsession which hasn't left me since. Meditation had nothing to do with it although the occasional partner has helped from time to time. By chance the ashram's bathroom doors locked.
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Date: Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 03:18:36 (GMT)
From: sai billda
Email: None
To: Yves
Subject: I got my dilatation during meditation
Message:
Hey! At least you had an experience! Kundilini snake and all that.
Sir David, who actually got somewhere during meditation got to the doctors office! Two actual experiences during 'meditation'
mentioned on the forum in one day. And we have spent years trying to find ONE person to fess up to SOME result using a baragon.
You put the sheet to some use as well I guess!
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Date: Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 00:39:20 (GMT)
From: Yves
Email: None
To: Yves
Subject: I meant my dick's attention after meditation
Message:
'The Lord of the universe'

Has anyone caught the hidden meaning yet?

You thought Paul McCarthney was dead? Wait until you understand this one.

And it is Spinal Tap.

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Date: Thurs, Sep 07, 2000 at 23:19:13 (GMT)
From: Scott T.
Email: None
To: Yves
Subject: I meant my dick's attention after meditation
Message:
Yves broke the age-old mold by observing, with respect to 'Lord of the Universe':

Has anyone caught the hidden meaning yet?

Master of the one-liner?
Ward of the Universe?

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Date: Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 19:26:20 (GMT)
From: Yves
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: I read in my Alpha Bits the Holy bit smells like..
Message:
an elephant dropping coming from beyond the three worlds.
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Date: Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 19:24:11 (GMT)
From: Yves
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: I wonder how it is to have a goddess wisper to it.
Message:
It all depends, of course on who the goddess is. Wheter she was born in India or in California. Wheter she is blond, tall, athletic or fat, short and wear thick glasses.
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Date: Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 19:20:13 (GMT)
From: Yves
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: Bulb-a-gun-Jeep was somewhat weird
Message:
No wonder.
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Date: Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 00:24:27 (GMT)
From: Yves
Email: None
To: Yves
Subject: Sorry. I meant Bubble-gum-jeep.
Message:
The oldest brother. The weird one who looked like he was dangerously weird. I know what weird is. I personnaly have lived with someone pretty weird. Myself.
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Date: Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 19:16:21 (GMT)
From: Yves
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: Is Ball-in-Gin mute or just plain dumb?
Message:
Insanity runs through that family. As a matter of fact it gallops.
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Date: Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 00:42:39 (GMT)
From: Yves
Email: None
To: Yves
Subject: Reject-Gin may have been the only honest one
Message:
What a funny name he had. I think his Alpha-bits payed a trick on sneezy, his dad.
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Date: Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 12:51:50 (GMT)
From: Yves
Email: None
To: Yves
Subject: Is it Reject-Gin or Reject-Jeep?
Message:
Or was it Reggie-Jean?
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Date: Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 01:00:02 (GMT)
From: Yves
Email: None
To: Yves
Subject: If Hasji is sneezy, who do you say Snow White is?
Message:
What is the name of the others?
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Date: Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 19:14:00 (GMT)
From: Yves
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: Since Hans and Rawat are both bigamous...
Message:
I wonder if indian girls are allowed to fuck around as well.
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Date: Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 00:50:02 (GMT)
From: Yves
Email: None
To: Yves
Subject: And now, for something completely outrageous...
Message:
We were told Rawat always had very normal relationship with members of his family except for Claudia. He didn't wear a condom and is said she had a baby by him. This is substantiated on Amazon.com in comments about The Lord Of The Universe video.

I hope he used condoms with Mitt-and-gin.

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Date: Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 01:02:59 (GMT)
From: Yves
Email: None
To: Yves
Subject: I'm expecting their lawyers any moment now.
Message:
They won't dare since it's all true. Aha! This is my proof.
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Date: Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 19:11:01 (GMT)
From: Yves
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: I wonder if Jagdeo fondled Rawat when he was a boy
Message:
Maybe they still have something abusive going between the two of them.
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Date: Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 01:06:32 (GMT)
From: Yves
Email: None
To: Yves
Subject: Do you imply he is not any more?
Message:
A boy, I mean.
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Date: Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 19:38:19 (GMT)
From: Yves
Email: None
To: Yves
Subject: Educated sources say...
Message:
the answer will be in my Rice Krispies.
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Date: Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 18:56:37 (GMT)
From: Yves
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: I just received a message from my Alpha Bits
Message:
What did it say?

'okjhsdfgk'

What does it mean?

I don't know yet but it is perfect.

Right. Who sent it?

Bulb-a-one-Jeep?

Who?

Ball-and-gin's brother. Mitten-jeans was their mother. Atchoo-chee and Goomrudjee also are their bros.

Don't you think they have rather odd names? What did they do? Find their names in a bowl of Alpha Bits?

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Date: Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 18:45:09 (GMT)
From: Yves
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: I always do what my Rice Krispies tell me
Message:
This knowledge is such a peaceful place inside.

What exactly IS knowledge?

We don't exactly know, but it don't matter.

Goomuradje's grace is always with me. What is Goomuradje's grace?

I dunno, but this knowledge wouldn't work without it.

You just said you don't know what knowledge is.

Right, but I beleive what he told me.

Why?

Because he's the perfect master.

How do you know?

He told me so.

Forget it.

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Date: Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 18:59:32 (GMT)
From: Yves
Email: None
To: Yves
Subject: Their dad's name was a sneeze: 'Hansji'
Message:
I rather sneeze in French. In English, they say 'Happy-shoe'. In French, we sneeze 'soulier-content'
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Date: Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 19:02:09 (GMT)
From: Yves
Email: None
To: Yves
Subject: His name is close to the holy name
Message:
It kicks me beyond the three worlds.
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Date: Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 19:21:57 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: all
Subject: More 'wisdom' from Elaine
Message:
Well, then, after reading your post, you might appreciate this quote :

'If you knew how beneficial suffering was,you'd ask for it.'

Everything can be enjoyed with the right perpective.(aka wisdom,insight)

I'm trying all the time and it's working.

I've just learned after a hypnosis/therapy session that my horrible parents were picked by me before birth to help teach me the lessons I needed to learn this time around.
Sure changed my attitude...from resentment to value.

There WAS a value to the ridicule and neglect.It taught me not to do that to anyone else, since I knew how it felt.
That was a lesson I needed to learn - to be aware of others' hearts.

All in the perpective.
I'm coming to realize more and more
that we are here as a spirit in flesh to learn and grow and gain knowledge - we may be on death row or a millionaire - but, we all have a lesson to really 'get'.

Yo ho ho and a bottle of rum...

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Date: Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 03:23:57 (GMT)
From: billda
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Egad!
Message:
Of course those that think that we are here to learn a lesson and 'get' it until we are through with our PATH, they all spring from the buddhist thinking where we earn our way out of here.
Of course there is no god, so who the fuck is requesting all this lesson learning is a topic to be avoided because there is no dogma that covers that question!

OOOPS!

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Date: Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 12:48:12 (GMT)
From: Yves
Email: None
To: billda
Subject: Could you be a little less clear please.
Message:
How exactly do you mean? You might as well post in chinese, greek or with the handwriting of a MD.
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Date: Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 13:10:56 (GMT)
From: Yves
Email: None
To: Yves
Subject: I think I got the hidden message.
Message:
She wants to teach us a lesson there is no lesson to be taught since Buddha is not god and doesn't exist. Something like that. Furthermore, being a premie reading posts for ex-premies, she is offended.

What's your name honey? Could you send me a picture? I'd like to show you the fifth technique.

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Date: Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 17:22:05 (GMT)
From: sai billda
Email: None
To: Yves
Subject: I think I got the hidden message.
Message:
weellllll, actually no. But, good for trying.
The doctor handwriting comment made me laugh so thanks for that.
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Date: Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 19:30:22 (GMT)
From: Yves
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: This is hardcore satsang.
Message:
I love the part where she says:
'... flesh to learn and grow..'

How deeply sexual this most magnificient knowledge is. I wonder if there are new chicks at sadsong.

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Date: Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 15:36:45 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Hey, premies, what do you think of this?
Message:
Karen Plaxton, an admittedly worldly person, offers this pamphlet of revelations over on ELK:

Karen Plaxton

Days taken for granted

From Manila, the Philippines

It has just been made perfectly clear to me that I take days with Knowledge for granted - just expecting them to be here, one after the other.

I have just had a fever and imagined that while in the throes of heat and redness and raging heads that I may never get through it to taste another day with Knowledge.

So sweet that I have one day, two days more, but never knowing when that day will end and my journey on this planet stops. It is not morbid, it is not frightening, just that I was shown a place inside me, so deep, so pure , so sweet and strong, a place to hold on to when the storms in my head and body raged. I would never have believed that such a place existed in pain; I thought that the only way to experience that place was when I was full of joy and happiness.

No, I have held on to the pillar inside and it held me tight and loved me, each labouring breath, love in, love out, and on and on.

Here's my question: do you agree with her that your breath is like an invisible friend, slowly billowing your lungs in and out? Do you have any doubt about this? And what, by the way, do you think of the old Jimmy Stewart movie, 'Harvey'?

I am writing because I have had a realisation, maybe not profound to some, but for me, a worldly person, I was shown another level of this love and this joy. Again, all my ramblings have to end with thank you to my master, for showing me how to get to this place, and even in my insanity, helping me get there without any real effort on my behalf.

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Date: Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 03:06:39 (GMT)
From: sai billda
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: she says 'even in my insanity..'correct! nt
Message:
fg
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Date: Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 18:22:48 (GMT)
From: Yves
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Am I allowed to answer if I'm no premie?
Message:
Although I agree with you their superstitions are wrong, I think you should leave them premies alone. Protecting their right to be wrong also protects own right to voice my own superstitions which, by the way, happen to be right. What do you say?
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Date: Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 16:14:35 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Hey, premies, what do you think of this?
Message:
I have just had a fever and imagined that while in the throes of heat and redness and raging heads that I may never get through it to taste another day with Knowledge

I wonder how many 'heads' this poor woman thinks she has...

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Date: Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 16:46:16 (GMT)
From: Gregg
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: typo in last sent: insanity should read inanity nt
Message:
x
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Date: Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 15:30:25 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Ah, the new-age mud bath of paradox!
Message:
Found this woeful gibberish ob ELK:

Only he...

I am truly blessed as I know
I cannot comprehend
How truly blessed I am.
I love to learn and dance
What I always have known.
I love to pull and step closer
To what I always have known.
I am so fortunate to have Maharaji
More than I can begin to understand.
Only he has given me a gift
Which allows me
To know what I truly love.
Only he can remind me.

Kerry Lloyd
Bristol, UK

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Date: Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 09:06:25 (GMT)
From: Tonette
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Reminds me of
Message:
someone on Thorazine. What I can't understand is-most of the poetry on EV is very pathetic. Kinda sick almost. If I was your average Joe Blow without pre-programming as to what K is, or is supposed to be, I would run, not walk, from anyone even remotely involved in EV after reading some of the crap on that site.
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Date: Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 03:26:33 (GMT)
From: sai billda
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Somebody get him a pet! nt
Message:
sdfh
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Date: Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 04:06:43 (GMT)
From: recent ex
Email: None
To: maharaji
Subject: maharaji-you are so fuckin stupid!!!!!!!!!!!!
Message:
a quick note from a very recent ex, to whoever is monitoring this site for maharaji...(and I do know that it is monitored daily)

Maharaji, you are so stupid.
When I had questions (or doubts, as you would call them), if you had either-
1-answered people's questions in a real way, instead of your silly asinine shallow smartass way, I would have listened to you.
2-if you encouraged any of your instructors to talk or communicate in a real way, I would have listened.
3-if your videos had real answers,not the same old horseshit, refried numerous times, I would have listened.
4-if you had a web site that allowed and encouraged free discussions,debate,and talk about people's real experiences, I would have listened.
5-if you acknowledged that there are real complaints about real issues, and that people who are critical are not crazy but are real people who could actually give you valuable feedback that might actually help you and them,I would have listened.
But you chose not to, so I came here.
I am so glad I did.
At first I thought it was ironic, that I came to the ex-site to get answers to my questions about knowledge..
And then I realized that it was all quite perfect.
You don't allow free talk-EPO does.
I came here for answers.
I got them.
I am so greatful that I did.
I am so happy since I left you!
Keep up the good work,EPO!!!

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Date: Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 04:25:14 (GMT)
From: Shroomananda
Email: None
To: recent ex
Subject: Got anything SPECIFIC to say, recent ex? How
Message:
do you 'know' this site is being monitored? Got a name? Anybody I know?

Congratulations! You didn't get Knowledge. Is that what you wanted? Or did you really really really want it? I guess you didn't. You would have stuck around and put up with the 'stupidity' to see if it was real or not. Now you'll never know. Pity. You still have your mind though. That's something, isn't it? Of course, you would still have had your mind after Knowledge too. Just witness this site. Everyone here still have their minds? Yes? Great!

Enjoy your life, recent ex. Maybe you'll find what you're looking for somewhere else. Or within you. After all, you are a truth-seeker, aren't you? I've read the scriptures and they say that God can't withhold him or herself from a real seeker of Truth. Don't stop until you get there.

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Date: Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 16:52:20 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Shroomananda
Subject: Are you really that condescending and cynical?
Message:
God, even for a premies you are a reactionary. Still talking about 'mind' are we? I thought even your former guru has stopped talking about that. Some programming dies hard, though, doesn't it, and it's hard, isn't it, to rationalize how people reject what you are programmed to believe, and hold onto for dear life, as 'Truth' (cute, you capitalize that) and some kind of 'ulitmate experience.' Sure, if people reject that, there much be something wrong with them, especially if, like recent ex, they say they are happier, freer, and fell a lot better dumping Maharaji and his cult.

The only rationale you can come up with is that people like this just don't want 'Truth', don't want to be fulfilled, etc, and the ultimate cult-think, they are 'in their minds.' OOOOooo, we must all cringe at the Maharaji-cult's own brand of the devil. A cult based on fear. So attractive.

And, on the other hand, this kind of rationale allows you feel suprerior, one of the select few, who has the proper 'understanding.' It's this disgusting and condescending behavior, coupled a large dose of self-denial, that recent ex appears to be reacting too, and one of the main reasons, besides the repulsiveness of Maharaji, and the inability to explain who or what he is in connection with meditation techniques, that Maharaji has been such a miserable failure at getting or keeping followers in the West.

Thanks for the demonstration of that in such close proximity to Mr. recent ex. Unfortunately, I also was once an Elan Vital honcho. I have been there, believe me.

It is kind of refreshing though, that you talk about this as 'god' and 'mind' and all the things that Elan Vital now denies. You better get with the Elan Vital current PR program, though, or soon you will be on their shit-list.

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Date: Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 16:28:20 (GMT)
From: Rob
Email: None
To: Shroomananda
Subject: Engaging your mouth before your brain is in gear
Message:
Reference is made to this site, albeit indirectly, on the Elan Vital FAQ pages, where it cutely refers to 'opposing views expressed on the internet' But then you would know that, being a major contributor to their History Rewritten pages.

Other ex's have had emails and phone calls, uninviting them from attending events because of their presence here, still more discussion takes place on First Class, under the guise of Safety & Security conferences. But then you would know that, you honcho you!!

BTW, you got a name? Are you anybody we know? Why so shy about yourself when you are such a proud advocate of the Master and *his* knowledge? What are you ashamed of? Don't tell me you're NOT here with the Master's blessings? Tut tut, shroomie, there goes your front row seat!

Can you not see what an arrogant, condescending bastard you really come across as? Really, you don't see it? Do you really imagine, in those wonderful darshan fantasies you have while practising *his* techniques, that you are really helping his cause?

Why would any sane, conscious human being want to become like you? Because that's what happens to a person when they fall under the spell of someone they think is God - they become a little odd, spiritually aloof and judgemental. A bit like Rawat, in fact. You are a wonderful advertisement, actually, a bit like the 'this is your brain on drugs' TV infomercials.

Maybe you should keep it up, on reflection, I'm sure you are doing more to turn people OFF the cult than you realize. Bravo!!!

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Date: Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 04:17:02 (GMT)
From: recent ex
Email: None
To: recent ex
Subject: maharaji-you are so fuckin stupid!!!!!!!!!!!!
Message:
PS-I had knowledge for over 26 years when I recently woke up.
It's true,it is good to follow your heart.
It's true, the answers are within you.

When I really followed my heart, and looked inside myself, it was so easy to see that the last thing I needed in this world was having the lead weight of maharaji tied around me.
When I cut the cord,I experienced such a lightness,such a freedom,such an awakening....it's hard to describe, but feels so good...

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Date: Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 17:57:31 (GMT)
From: Hal
Email: None
To: recent ex
Subject: That lead weight
Message:
Hi freebird,

I know exactly what you mean about the lead weight of Maha around one's neck.

For me it felt like my true self was being oppressed by his total control trip. All those restrictions and limits placed on what to say and not to say. Just before I found this website and decided enough was enough, a premie I know phoned to ask if I would like to participate in the programs as an usher. The programs are 30 miles from where I live. My reaction was instant and uncompromising , no way ! The thought of being part of that little team of people doing the programs was abhorrant to me. I was somewhat surprised by my rapid reaction as in the past I would have considered it a personal invitation from Maha and not to be taken lightly.

Recently someone told me that at the introductory program there was no-one there except those doing 'gratitude' ( great new word for service ). The petty tyrant in charge told the premies to go into the hotel lobby and invite some hotel guests to come in. She ran away !

Yes it feels great to be free of it all finally ( I split in Feb this year) after coming on here as a premie arguing the case for .

All the best to you,
Hal

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Date: Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 17:26:14 (GMT)
From: Curious George
Email: None
To: recent ex, Joe and Co,
Subject: The Unbelievable Lightness of Being
Message:
Dear Recent Ex and All,

First off how do you know this site is being monitored?

Second, Thanks for the great posts on this thread. I also feel like a great weight has been lifted (like the monkey is now off my back) I can't believe I fell for all this a second time.

The second time I decided to give Knowledge a chance I came up to the brickwall of Elan Vital yet again. I don't think they help anyone at all except perhaps M's pocket book. And they pat each other on the back deluded that they are doing good works only they aren't.

Now there is a new satelite series called Connect where we see Pams and Instructors flying around the world at the poor premies expense to give a handful of people knowlege and to test the waters in the likes of West Africa.

I find these Pams & Instructors are a bit like those monkeys on sticks that M used to talk about. He has to keep these monkey-minded people busy by making them go up and down a stick or around and around the world if you like.

I know or hope the likes of Omar had the best of intentions but he and the others involved in this world wide First Class Fundraising for Maharaji by a few rich and worldly successful PAMS and premies is making all of you act like an inverted Robin Hood taking from the poor to pay for your jet-set activities these days. I have to say SHAME ON YOU. Look at the ethics here. Get off that stick as quickly as you can if you know whats good for others.

Curious George

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Date: Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 17:59:27 (GMT)
From: Hal
Email: None
To: Curious George
Subject: Yes indeed! well said george nt
Message:
hjh
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Date: Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 04:31:47 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: recent ex
Subject: awesome, I'm very happy for you RE
Message:
Wow, twenty six years, that's a long time. And a lot of programming to undo. Have you considered getting professional help to unravel all the kinks? A lot of recent exes have, and many have benefitted greatly from it.

Best of everything to you and welcome back to the world. And to this wild and wooly place.

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Date: Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 05:14:38 (GMT)
From: ExTex
Email: None
To: Shroomananda
Subject: Who's Monitering This Site
Message:
for GM/EV? I can think of a certain Fungusananda!
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Date: Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 02:57:20 (GMT)
From: Glen Whittaker
Email: None
To: ExTex
Subject: I am (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 02:58:15 (GMT)
From: David Smith
Email: None
To: Glen Whittaker
Subject: Me too (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 03:18:56 (GMT)
From: Rosie Lee
Email: None
To: David Smith
Subject: Hi David, how are you honey? (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 02:59:13 (GMT)
From: Linda Gross
Email: None
To: David Smith
Subject: And me (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 03:02:03 (GMT)
From: Sharon Stokke
Email: None
To: Linda Gross
Subject: And me (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 03:02:52 (GMT)
From: Mahatma Gurucharanand
Email: None
To: Sharon Stokke
Subject: And me (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 03:17:30 (GMT)
From: Padarthanand
Email: None
To: Mahatma Gurucharanand
Subject: Really? Me too. (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 03:22:32 (GMT)
From: Jagdeo
Email: None
To: Padarthanand
Subject: Me too, but don't tell anybody where I am, ok?nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 03:04:47 (GMT)
From: Joan Apter
Email: None
To: Mahatma Gurucharanand
Subject: Don't forget me (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 03:06:17 (GMT)
From: Raja Ji
Email: None
To: Joan Apter
Subject: Or me (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 03:07:42 (GMT)
From: Wadi Sue
Email: None
To: Raja Ji
Subject: Or me (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 03:09:12 (GMT)
From: Pauline Premie
Email: None
To: Wadi Sue
Subject: Can be a monitor to do participation?(nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 03:14:08 (GMT)
From: Elan Vital
Email: None
To: Pauline Premie
Subject: You have to send in an application.(nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 10:42:29 (GMT)
From: Gum JI LI
Email: None
To: Elan Vital
Subject: Sorry for being late. Me too..nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 02:07:54 (GMT)
From: Rob
Email: None
To: shroomananda
Subject: Let's take center stage shall we, shroomananda?
Message:
I wrote this in reply to a post way down below, but you seem to insist on being the current sensation, so lets get to it shall we?

First up, let's get over the bit about Maharaji offering something unique. If you were reading the forum some time aqo, you'll remember we explored that whole fake history thing quite thoroughly. The four techniques, in one permutation or another, are readily available from any one of the 37 branches of Rhadasaomi, and probably a whole host of other Indian sects too. Apart from that, they are quite simply not the only method for attaining THAT experience, which I can personally attest too.
So for him to charge anything, even '$29.95' would be reprehensible. So convince me again why he doesn't go with the less-hassle method of putting it on the net? And please, shroomie, you really think it takes five months to understand this schtick? Really? Are you that dumb? Does he think the rest of the world is that dumb?

But I agree that he does want/need the time to get people's juices flowing. Dangle the carrot sufficiently out of reach to where they are so tantalised and intrigued by THAT experience, their normal scepticism is laid aside and they become hooked. Old, old psychological tricks. People crave the unattainable, the priveleged, the enigmatic answers to life's mysteries.

You want a straight answer? yes, I do think he is in it for the money.
I also think he is in it for the megalomaniacal rush he gets from people treating him like a Divine Being. Tell me shroomie, have you ever been in a small group with him, you know, up close and personal? I have. Quite a few times, actually. If you have you will know quite well the atmosphere there. There is a kind of quiet reverance, an uncharacteristic humbleness and aquiescence from people who are very different around say, their boss or their spouse. People tend to stand with their hands clasped in front of them, with silly grins on their faces and meekly agree with everything he says, no matter how fucking stupid it is. How do you explain that, if not for the reason that they believe they are in the presence of the Almighty?

When are YOU going to get it, shroomie, that he has quite successfully created this image of himself in your mind and in the minds of all the other poor folk who have yet failed to see through the subtefuge? Look man, I have nothing against you, I don't hate you or have any kind of problem with you, other than the fact since you have been here you have had ample opportunity to take a step back and consider that maybe, just maybe, you are wrong about htis man. Instead you insist on foisting layer after layer of the same old premie rhetoric we are trying to rid ourselves of. Take the hint buddy, just fuck off and practice knowledge, if that's what rocks your world, or stay and open up a little. Either way, I think we've all had a bellyful of your satsang, thanks.

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Date: Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 02:20:53 (GMT)
From: Shroomananda
Email: None
To: Rob
Subject: Who says you or anyone else has to 'worship'
Message:
him, Rob? I support those who wish to do that. I also support your right to gripe about it. I have a clear mind, Rob. I came to Knowledge with my eyes wide open. They are still wide open, Rob. You want to discredit Knowledge and say they are some hashed over yogic techniques? Fine. That's your experience. But don't give me that crap about Maharaji not being special. He is. He knows something. You've felt it. Right? Just a group high, right? You can get that anywhere, right? Just go to your neighborhood church or local bar and hold hands and sing songs and you'll experience it, right? I don't think so. You and all the others here who 'wasted' so much of their lives 'following' Maharaji aren't stupid, are you? You're smart people. And you were smart then too, weren't you? You think Maharaji gave you all a 'dumb' pill when he revealed the techniques of Knowledge to you?

You want to bellyache? Go ahead. I'll listen to you. I just don't happen to agree with you. That may be your experience. It's just not mine...

And it didn't used to be yours, did it?

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Date: Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 02:47:35 (GMT)
From: Rob
Email: None
To: Shroomananda
Subject: Now we're getting down to the wire.
Message:
Finally, it's starting to come through. I had a feeling if I pushed hard enough we'd start to see some real feeling come out.

Rawat is not 'special' shroom. He's not, really. Sure, he has a few special talents, like the ability to create an image about himself without actually coming right out and saying it. He has the gift of allowing misconceptions about him to flourish, while officially 'denying' them. He has managed to get an impressive number of people to think he is Divine. I guess you could call that 'special', in a perverted sort of way.

Don't underestimate the power of group highs, shroom. I have actually witnessed quite a few in different situations. I have been involved in Scientology, I spent some time hanging out with Hare Krishna's, I've been to Evangelical meets, Motivational conventions....all kinds of stuff. It really is no different.

Have I discredited the techniques of Knowledge yet? No, I haven't. Yes, I said they are obtainable elsewhere, with less fuss and hype, but I did not say they were worthless. That's why Rawat can get away with it. That is why so many of us 'intelligent' people, as you condescendingly describe us, fell under his spell for so long. There is an experience which can happen when you do them right and for long enough. I don't dispute that. I do dispute his exclusive claim to them though, and I certainly dispute the aura he allows to exist around himself because of it.

Call it plagiarism of the worst kind. He is taking personal credit, glory and worship from something which he neither discovered, facilitates nor has exclusive rights over. His old man basically ran off with his former guru's magic recipe for spiritual hooch and made good out of it, much to the disgust of the more traditional leaders of the sect. Now junior is flying high, having been the first to bring it over to an unsuspecting Western youth and so the seeds of his own divinity which have held good to this day.

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Date: Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 03:40:54 (GMT)
From: Shroomananda
Email: None
To: Rob
Subject: Sorry, I was watching the Broncos and the Rams.
Message:
Right now, it's 35-27 Rams in the 4th quarter. I love Monday night football. One of my 'attachments'.

Shri Hans 'stole' the techniques and set himself up as the Master? My goodness! He sure took his time about it though, didn't he? I heard that the first person to receive Knowledge was someone who was traveling with him. It seems that Shri Hans had taken his shoes to be repaired and when there was a nail stuck in which pricked his feet, Shri Hans reportedly exclaimed, 'I should kick that guy beyond the three worlds!' His companion responded with, 'You can do that?' and became his first devotee. Shri Hans travelled extensively throughout India on foot and put up with numerous inconveniences if not downright suffering to offer Knowledge to the poor and downtrodden masses.

The test of a Master is his Knowledge. If it works, then fine. If it doesn't then move along and find something that works. I don't think that you've proven your 'theory' that Knowledge can be gotten elsewhere. No one else that I've heard of is offering it and talking about it in the way that Maharaji is. You happy leaving? Fine. I support that. Just as I support those of us who are staying to listen and practice. And those who have yet to hear...

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Date: Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 16:08:38 (GMT)
From: Rob
Email: None
To: Shroomananda
Subject: Shroom, you're losing it
Message:
Maybe you are the kind of person who would be impressed by that supposed story of shri hans? Personally, if someone told me they could 'kick someone beyond the three worlds' I'd just think they were a slightly aggressive dude with a colorful turn of phrase. I certainly wouldn't think they had divine powers.

Do you think shri hans and his fat brat son have divine powers, shroomie? Is that it? You really think you are a devotee of the Living Lord? You do, don't you? Your superiority seeps through your posts like the fetid aroma of rotting fish. Your potted bio of shri hans is pure Whittaker. You sure you're not him, or at least a ghost-writer for him? At least get your story straight - he traveled mostly by train and bus (not uncommon in India in the 30's & 40's) and the Rawat's were considered one of the wealthier families on the block, a fact which even you noted in another post somewhere. How'd that happen?

You have a major stumbling block which is highlighted by comments like 'the test of a master is his knowledge'. I have heard Rawat many times refer to 'his' Knowledge, even coming right out and saying that it was his. Well guess what, it ain't. First up, any experience a person gets from it is very much a part of their own being - I think even you will agree with that - Rawat certainly does, making much of the line 'this experience is within you' etc etc. So what does he think is his? Placing your finger/thumb tips in the corner of your eyes, putting your thumb tips in your ears, following your breath and putting your tongue on the roof of your mouth? You really think those simple yoga techniques are not described any where else? You need to expand your library a little!

You are saying he has exclusive dominion over those simple little attention tricks? Is that what he has built his empire on? Are they copyrighted, patented or otherwise legally *his* knowledge? What makes it *his* knowledge, shroom, I'm dying to know?

What are you saying then? That the experience of knowledge is something beyond the effect of those methods stimulating our awareness of something inside us? That Rawat somehow bestows THAT experience on you? What then? What exactly are you trying to say on this forum shroomie?. You've danced around it, alluded to it and in moments of frustration almost come out and said it.

Why not just bite the bullet and say what you REALLY think. That you consider Rawat to be some kind of Divine Being - that he is somehow mystically responsible for whatever pleasure you get when you meditate, that you consider yourself one of the chosen ones, enlightened and somehow set apart from the rest of us poor deluded mortals?

That IS what is really going on in that head of yours, isn't it? Why not just come out and say it, you'll feel much better for it.

Lastly, I really don't need your *support* for anything I do, and I doubt anyone else here does either. So please, keep your partonising attitude to yourself, will you, it really does remind me of dead herrings....

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Date: Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 21:37:31 (GMT)
From: Shroomananda
Email: None
To: Rob
Subject: I don't know about a divine being, Rob. That's
Message:
just a concept, isn't it? I do know that Maharaji says that he's a Master and that the Knowledge doesn't really work without the Master. I guess some on this site, you included, would say otherwise.

For myself, I've noticed that when I haven't listened to Maharaji for awhile, my meditation becomes stale. I have a harder time practicing and when I do, my thoughts are more noticeable. When I do listen to him, my thoughts slow down and I feel more in tune. I love to listen to him, though, so I can't imagine saying adios and then never listening to him again. He does somehow have the ability to bring me back to the important things when I wander away. Of course everybody's different, I guess, and there seem to be those who enjoy not listening to him. Jethro, yourself and others all claim that Knowledge works without him. Say la vie!

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Date: Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 23:09:07 (GMT)
From: Rob
Email: None
To: Shroomananda
Subject: Another none answer
Message:
Ho hum, you are becoming a little predictable shroomie:

A typical dialogue with the shroom....

An ex: What do you have to say about Rawat's exhorbitant lifestyle?

Shroom: I have no knowledge of maharaji's personal finances. I do know that when I listen him, I feel THAT joy, THAT peace emanating from him.

An ex: Do you think it excusable for Rawat to harbor the alleged paedophile, Jagdeo, in his organisation without offering one word in explanation or apology?

Shroom: I have no information about that matter. I do know that when I go inside, I feel such a peace, such a stillness.....

An ex: Why do you think Rawat allowed people to see him as the Lord of the Universe for so many years, and now denies it even happened?

Shroom: Did he ever claim to be God? I have no recollection of that. I do know that when I practice His knowledge, I feel such a part of THAT universe he talks about....

An ex: Do you not think it reprehensible that he destroyed so many people's lives with his fraudulent messianic claims, and refuses even a cursory dialogue with those affected?

Shroom: Well I support your right to bellyache and be ungrateful, however, I personally have nothing but glowing adoration for Him, and know that when I make an effort to practice....

and on and on ad nauseum.

Seeing the pattern here?

So when I asked you if you view Rawat as being more than a mere mortal, as being something approximating to the Son of God, why am I not surprised when you skip the issue and deliver another boring description of your so-so meditations?

Tell me this. What exactly do you think 'the Master' does to aid you in your meditation?

Let me put it another way. Would you say I have His Blessings, right now? Do I have His Grace? Probably not, eh? Well I sat down this afternoon and did the techniques for an hour and you know what? I did just fine. Same experience as ever, quite nice, THAT feeling (of ME, not HIM) pretty colors, twinkly sounds, the works. In fact, I think my meditations have improved considerably now I'm not spending half the time daydreaming about being around him, or suffering performance anxiety because I'm not merged yet. Strange, don't you think, that having renounced him a year ago I still manage to have THAT experience, to the same degree or better?

Couldn't be that the inner experience has actually nothing to do with Prem Pal Singh Rawat, and everything to do with our natural bodily/spiritual functioning?

So tell us the truth shroom, what motivates you to come here and bore us to death with your text book descriptions of premiedom? I personally don't feel anything real coming from you, just rhetoric. The party line, with actually very little embellishment or deviation. Have you been given a script, like those robotic telemarketers we are all plagued with? Can you answer ANY post without reverting to your standard patter? Are you a REAL person or not. Hey, you never know, show a bit more tangibility and people might actually start treating you better. (Probably not me, I'm pretty hard core I'm afraid)

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Date: Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 23:17:34 (GMT)
From: Shroomananda
Email: None
To: Rob
Subject: Of course you experienced something when you
Message:
practiced today, Rob. Knowledge works! That's been proven over and over again. You may have renounced the Master. Has he renounced you? Did he take his Knowledge back? I don't think so. He's said that the door is always open.

Congratulations on still practicing. Glad you are getting something from Knowledge. I'll continue to practice as well. And listen to his next satellite broadcast.

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Date: Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 23:34:30 (GMT)
From: Rob
Email: None
To: Shroomananda
Subject: Of course you didn't answer any questions, shroom,
Message:
because they would take you off-script. Can't have you ad-libbing and letting people think you are, um, *normal*?:)

So turning my attention inwards has pleasurable effects. Well shroom, I've always known that to be true, long, long before I'd even heard of *Knowledge*.

So what exactly do you mean by *his Knowledge*? I mean, its just the four things I described elsewhere, right? So how could he 'take it back'? You are not making sense. Could my driving instructor 'take back' my ability to drive? Could my swimming coach snap his fingers and voila I splash around like a drowning puppy?

Let me reiterate, because it seems perhaps you have a slight attention-deficit disorder: It is NOT *his* knowledge. The experience is not his to give or take, the techniques were not discovered, invented or unearthed in some ancient Hindu tomb by him and are not unique to him or Elan Vital.

So again, I ask you, on what basis do you claim this to be 'his Knowledge'? because he said so? Well duh, of course he'd say that!! Surely they can write you some better answers than this shroom, with all their 'synchronised participation'. Jeez maybe I should come back into the fold and write some shit for them, it's embarrassing listening to you!

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Date: Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 23:52:58 (GMT)
From: Rob
Email: None
To: shroom
Subject: What, can't get through to Mailibu shroom?
Message:
Give you a sticky one did I? Try a bit of synchronised participation on FC. Do it now, so I can watch;)

Any time you got answers, I'm all ears.....

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Date: Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 04:01:33 (GMT)
From: Jethro
Email: None
To: Shroomananda
Subject: And don't forget that hans was drowning in
Message:
a river when a giant hand pulled him out.

I also read that same book.

Ever hear the story how hans projected a movie from the centre of the palm of his hand.
saibaba has nothing of hansji.

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Date: Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 04:31:06 (GMT)
From: Shroomananda
Email: None
To: Jethro
Subject: Yeah, there are a lot of 'myths' around powerful
Message:
people, aren't there? So what's true and what isn't? Do you know, Jethro? Or are you just another disgruntled customer?

If Maharaji was so disingenuous, why'd you stick around? Don't tell me that you experienced nothing yet you wanted to help establish peace in the world. I don't buy that one. Were you 'tricked' too?

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Date: Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 04:35:59 (GMT)
From: Jethro
Email: None
To: Shroomananda
Subject: Fool on the hill
Message:
yes I had great experiences around m.
The point is I still have those same 'experiences' without him or anyone. The experinece is of my own self, when that is understood no myths are needed.Enjoy your perniceosness.

Bole shri me ki jai.

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Date: Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 04:49:50 (GMT)
From: Shroomananda
Email: None
To: Jethro
Subject: Fool on the hill?
Message:
So did you have the same experiences before you received Knowledge, Jethro? If what you say is true, and why shouldn't I believe you, then you should have had the same experiences in the same quantity and quality before you received Knowledge, right? Now you claim to have the same experiences after renouncing the Master. So what? He gave you Knowledge. Did he take it back? No! Just because you no longer listen to him, does that mean you can't experience what Knowledge brought you? It is a universal experience, is it not? It's just that Knowledge allows one to get to the core of the matter without all the extraneous matter. Have you noticed that?
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Date: Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 07:35:00 (GMT)
From: Hal
Email: None
To: Shroomananda
Subject: Have you noticed Shroo
Message:
that quite a few exes here say that they can still have the same experience without following M. He says that this doesn't work without a master (him). So who's lying ?

I 've sometimes thought that maha wanted people to wake up and leave him. After all he did once say 'take the knowledge and run with it'. If he is a great master maybe this is all a divine lila and he actually instigated the mass exodus of premies. Perhaps you guys still hanging on to his ankles are a drain on his energy.
Just musing,

Hal

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Date: Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 16:50:19 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: Hal
Subject: And Hal, at least one non-anything, too
Message:
As Michael has pointed out to him. My sister had an out of body experience the first time she meditated (in a yoga class as a teenager, no special techniques, just sitting) and she hasn't meditated much at all since. You know, in my yoga/meditation classes (usually about $10/class), I've learned all m's 'techniques' except the tongue one, and lots more, and I consider all my teachers as friends, as they do me.

Love, Stonor

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Date: Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 18:02:44 (GMT)
From: Hal
Email: None
To: Stonor
Subject: Thanks Stonora love to you too , nt
Message:
sfdh
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Date: Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 09:14:57 (GMT)
From: Jethro
Email: None
To: Hal
Subject: Strange musing but
Message:
Hi Hal,

I justremembered the last video I saw of that greasy, smelly pan of rancid chip oil was entitled 'Listen to you' and I did and listened to myself and split.

All the best Jethro

PS didn't make it to the BOOM festival...next time maybe

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Date: Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 05:34:13 (GMT)
From: Jethro
Email: None
To: Shroomananda
Subject: The big lie is that there is no such thing as
Message:
'reveiving knowledge'.

You premies are obsessed with 'your experiences'.
You don't seem to give a toss about the fact that the one you call master is a thief, lier, protector of the obscene(for a start).

You people equate with holocaust deniers(who by the way also have 'their experiences').

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Date: Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 05:44:46 (GMT)
From: Shroomananda
Email: None
To: Jethro
Subject: I don't know anything about 'you people', Jethro.
Message:
You want me to deny my experience, Jethro? I won't do that. You're pissed off? Fine. But don't tell me that I'm a holocaust denier. I'm not. I appreciate what I've been given. I give credit to he who gave it to me. The drama of Maharaji's life is not my concern. He's doing what he's doing and I'm doing what I'm doing. Arrest him if he's committed crimes. I'll support that. But let's not get carried away here. He's offering something that you once found important in your life. I strongly believe in free speech. You want to gripe? Fine. I support that. I also support Maharaji offering Knowledge to others.
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Date: Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 06:01:51 (GMT)
From: Jethro
Email: None
To: Shroomananda
Subject: You are in the same mind-set as holocaust deniers
Message:
and,incidentally, as flat earthers.
You choose to be blind.
An experience is just that...an experience. It's the beliefs that you choose to associate with your 'experience' that makes you inhumanly sick.

100s of 1000s of people claimed to have 'experiences' from Adolf Hitler.....no difference with prempal(aka maharaji).

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Date: Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 06:06:16 (GMT)
From: Shroomananda
Email: None
To: Jethro
Subject: You really are out there, Jethro. Comparing the
Message:
followers of Adolph Hitler to people who've received Knowledge and continue to practice and listen to him and support him in his work? Please. Get real.
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Date: Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 06:16:02 (GMT)
From: Jethro
Email: None
To: Shroomananda
Subject: The only thing really important to a devoted Nazi
Message:
is their'experience'. Just as you premies are so besoted with your'experience' and showing gratitude to the gver that it doesn't matter abouthis behaviour.
I met with Mike Finch's(an early PAM) mother after she 'received knowledge' and she told me that she was formely a Catholic and when she told her friends about m thay asked her 'What happens if m turns out to be the devil?', to which she answered, 'If that is the case them I will follow him all the way to hell'.

Get it.....you people are really stuck in 'your minds' and you don't dare look at your own state.

Maharaji's motto is 'excreta taurus cerebum wincket'. He laughs at premies.

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Date: Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 06:22:15 (GMT)
From: Shroomananda
Email: None
To: Jethro
Subject: So what's important to you, Jethro?
Message:
You seem to love to spend your time here dissing Maharaji and Knowledge. You tell me my experience is nothing. What's real, Jethro? Tell me. I'm interested in your 'experience'.
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Date: Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 06:50:22 (GMT)
From: Jethro
Email: None
To: Shroomananda
Subject: So what's important to you, Jethro?
Message:
You still don't get it, do you?

This site is here so that people can make informed decisions.

I know nothing of 'your experience', it's how you associate belief with your 'experience' that cultifies you.

It's simple really, you follow a really bad person and think you are doing something wonderful, just like Nazis.

Read up in the archives about the 'fuck you' video maharaji forced his instructor candidates to make for someone who didn't agree with him. Your man is a real sicko and I am more than happy to let people know.

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Date: Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 04:55:55 (GMT)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: Shroomananda
Subject: Yes, you are the fool on the hill
Message:
You sound like someone who needs to have his experience justified by others. Go somewhere else, shroom. Go be with premies. We're not here to give credence to your false master.
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Date: Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 05:02:42 (GMT)
From: Shroomananda
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: Okay, Marianne, I'll talk to you. Since you are so
Message:
persistent about it. What makes you think he's false? And I have told my story on this site. I can't express myself? Let's shed some light on the matter. Who are you? Why is he false? Why's it so important for you to respond to me? I'm a truth-seeker. How about you?
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Date: Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 05:09:11 (GMT)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: Shroomananda
Subject: You don't pay attention, do you?
Message:
If you really paid attention to this site, all the questions you posed would have been answered for you.

Marianne

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Date: Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 05:16:07 (GMT)
From: Shroomananda
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: Do you remember every person and every post
Message:
on this site? Pardon me for not paying attention, young lady. I don't see your 'journey' entry. Should I go back and examine the archives? No, I won't do that. We're civilized human beings, aren't we? Why don't you just tell me what's wrong? What's getting your goat? Please be specific. Please remember, you're the one who responded to me.
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Date: Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 05:19:54 (GMT)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: Shroomananda
Subject: Ignorance is bliss!
Message:
Geez, missed my journey entry? Your reading skills are lacking.
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Date: Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 05:57:47 (GMT)
From: Shroomananda
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: I found your entry, Marianne. It was under the B
Message:
section, not the M section. I read it. It was very touching. It sounds like you went through a lot. You sound like a very sweet and caring person. I'm sorry you received Knowledge so young and had to put up with so much at such an early age. I probably would have told Bill Patterson to fuck off. I can't believe he wouldn't let you go console your mother after your father's death. That's just unbelieveable.

I don't know how much you've been in touch since those early days. It sounds like you've really made something of yourself. I'm a firm anti-death penalty person, myself. I believe that the only reason for the death penalty is revenge. Good luck in that regard. Life in prison seems like a much better revenge than death, if one were interested in vengeance!

So what's the problem now? You received Knowledge as a youngster (by the way, Maharaji was younger than you then, wasn't he?) and now you respond to my posts and tell me what a fool I am. Am I? I received Knowledge in 1982. I wanted to understand what life was all about. I'd gotten to the point where I figured that you never found out. Then I heard about the 'Guru'. I used to make fun of him, telling the person who told me about Maharaji, 'How's the Guru today?' But I eventually decided to check into it if only to eliminate it as a possibility. That never happened. I can't say that some of the outward drama involving the people involved hasn't been BS, but I can say that I've never really been sorry for listening to Maharaji or practicing. Why are you upset with me?

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Date: Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 05:25:04 (GMT)
From: Shroomananda
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: Still don't see a 'Marianne' in the Journeys
Message:
section. Do I need glasses?
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Date: Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 05:49:21 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: Shroomananda
Subject: Count six down on the left. Click on Marianne
Message:
Bachers, or would you like a link?
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Date: Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 06:03:08 (GMT)
From: Shroomananda
Email: None
To: Stonor
Subject: I found it, Stonor. Did you read it? Very
Message:
touching. I'd like to give Bill Patterson a punch on the nose, if I wasn't a non-violent person! What a dick head! Pardon my French.

You are extremely helpful for a non-anything, by the way. I think I understand you a little after your description to Jim of getting between your father and your younger sister. That sounds like such a tramatic experience. I hope you find what you're looking for.

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Date: Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 06:30:57 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: Shroomananda
Subject: I found it, Stonor. Did you read it? Very
Message:
I'm glad someone got one of my analogies. I'm looking forward to reading your Journey, Shroomananda. And I don't know how traumatic it was, but I've been thinking lately that it left an 'imprint' on me. BTW, she is not the sister I usually mention. She went on to bully me, but I still love her very much.
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Date: Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 03:06:52 (GMT)
From: Rob
Email: None
To: Rob
Subject: ET call home?
Message:
Where'd you go shroomie? Calling Malibu for advice? Man I thought you were up for this! Oh well......
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Date: Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 03:12:20 (GMT)
From: Michael
Email: None
To: Rob
Subject: ET call home?
Message:
I wonder if people like Shroomananda are sent by Elan Vital just to distract and irritate. Can you imagine the screening process to find the appropriate irritant for this site? Sheesh!
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Date: Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 05:03:58 (GMT)
From: ExTex
Email: None
To: Rob
Subject: Shredding Shroom
Message:
Those postings were brilliant and LONG OVER Due. Most of all they were full of truth! Thank-you. I have just found this site and I have been casually checking it out for a couple of weeks. The tolerance for this Shroom nonsense has been puzzling. But after your clear direct confrontation with such logic I hope for an end to it all.
By the way I am an ex who went through the indoctrination way back ....way back, in Montrose, at one of the earliest US 'festivals'. I broke away from the cult years ago, around 77-78. But I have never shook completely a lot of the feelings surrounding the subject. I just buried them, I guess. This site has been most interesting. Thanks. I'll check in later...got to go to sleep.
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Date: Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 04:49:27 (GMT)
From: Oliver
Email: Oliver
To: Michael
Subject: ET call home?
Message:
I've always thought old Shroomie was an EV stooge. Who else would spend the time he does here if he was not doing service for M. He never gets angry, abusive or spiteful but just steadily goes along in the same vein in his attempts to get people angry, abusive or spiteful. Perfectly adequate irritant for this site, and even if he is not working to any one else's instructions, I'm sure his posts would find favour in the eyes of the Lard.
As for the screening process to select these desperates, I agree. Sheesh!
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Date: Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 16:41:16 (GMT)
From: Rob
Email: None
To: Oliver
Subject: Fungal infection
Message:
Somehow I think shroomie is a self-appointed vigilante. After all, when has Rawat EVER stooped to actually addressing people's questions and concerns. His modus operendi is to respond to any and every question, doubt or what-have-you with some totally irrelevant quasi-zen cliche, or else to publically make a joke out of the person at their expense. The fact is, I seriously think he doesn't *have* any answers, because he just is not in touch with people. I doubt he even meditates himself. So he bluffs, pads out or totally changes the subject, then makes out he's answering the *real* question-behind-the-question. Cute.

No, shroomie's just on a mission of his own appointing. He's pissed at us for slagging his Lord and is deluded to the point where he actually thinks he is providing a 'balanced' counter viewpoint. He needs help.

He doesn't irritate me in the least, just makes me even more grateful that I got out when I did and that I don't see myself as one of the Chosen Ones any more. Phew!

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Date: Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 14:41:46 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Oliver
Subject: You could be right...nt
Message:
nt
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