gerry -:- JohnT revisited, or what Yves is denying us with -:- Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 16:32:30 (GMT)

__ O -:- JohnT revisited, or what Yves is denying us with -:- Thurs, Sep 07, 2000 at 00:19:26 (GMT)

__ __ sam -:- JohnT revisited, or what Yves is denying us with -:- Thurs, Sep 07, 2000 at 09:12:58 (GMT)

__ __ Hal -:- Ah at last a premie who's made it ! -:- Thurs, Sep 07, 2000 at 05:51:09 (GMT)

__ __ ExTex -:- Jon T revisited or what Yves, etc -:- Thurs, Sep 07, 2000 at 04:29:45 (GMT)

__ __ Selene -:- read your own post -:- Thurs, Sep 07, 2000 at 01:28:04 (GMT)

__ __ __ O -:- read your own post -:- Thurs, Sep 07, 2000 at 23:47:33 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Selene -:- you are being silly -:- Fri, Sep 08, 2000 at 00:15:43 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ O -:- you are being silly -:- Fri, Sep 08, 2000 at 01:10:13 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- I didn't seek K -:- Fri, Sep 08, 2000 at 03:13:18 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ O -:- I didn't seek K -:- Fri, Sep 08, 2000 at 15:38:25 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- you are interpreting -:- Fri, Sep 08, 2000 at 16:15:53 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ O -:- We are all interpreting Selene -:- Sat, Sep 09, 2000 at 00:19:01 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- up to the task of dialog? -:- Sat, Sep 09, 2000 at 07:31:53 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ JohnT -:- Nice one, Selene (nt) -:- Fri, Sep 08, 2000 at 22:00:49 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- thanks - just a gut level reaction -:- Sat, Sep 09, 2000 at 07:48:23 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ JohnT -:- You've got guts Selene. Trust them. Big hug. (nt) -:- Sat, Sep 09, 2000 at 12:36:54 (GMT)

__ __ __ sam -:- could'nt agree more...nt -:- Thurs, Sep 07, 2000 at 09:19:28 (GMT)

__ JohnT -:- No problem Gerry - does anyone know ... -:- Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 19:42:23 (GMT)

__ Ha -:- JohnT revisited, or what Yves is denying us with -:- Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 16:56:56 (GMT)

Yves -:- Maharaji talked to me in my Rice Krispies -:- Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 13:00:10 (GMT)

__ Sir Dave -:- I'm a Quaker Oats man myself -:- Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 17:12:02 (GMT)

__ Yves -:- Leak to the press -:- Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 14:18:50 (GMT)

__ __ Yves -:- Leaked to the press -:- Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 15:06:34 (GMT)

__ __ __ Salam -:- I do not know if I should like you or hate you? -:- Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 15:20:54 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Yves -:- Thanks for voicing appreciation and criticism... -:- Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 15:39:20 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Oh come off it, Yves -:- Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 15:44:09 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Salam -:- Oh come off it, Yves -:- Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 16:12:56 (GMT)

__ Yves -:- Child actor -:- Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 14:14:52 (GMT)

__ Yves -:- Child actress -:- Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 14:14:10 (GMT)

__ Yves -:- Child singer -:- Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 14:11:28 (GMT)

__ Yves -:- Child molester (alleged) -:- Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 14:07:38 (GMT)

__ Yves -:- Childish -:- Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 14:06:26 (GMT)

__ Yves -:- Child impersonator -:- Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 14:05:22 (GMT)

__ Yves -:- Child actress -:- Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 13:52:29 (GMT)

__ Yves -:- Book calls Nectar 'Greatest political mystery' -:- Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 13:50:29 (GMT)

__ __ Dr.No -:- Moses talked to me in my corn flakes -:- Thurs, Sep 07, 2000 at 00:52:40 (GMT)

Salam -:- Who needs knowledge, the Binaural Beat is here -:- Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 11:12:39 (GMT)

__ Jerry -:- More hype -:- Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 11:34:43 (GMT)

__ __ Salam -:- But but this is free. -:- Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 12:30:51 (GMT)

__ Salam -:- Link -:- Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 11:16:05 (GMT)

__ __ dv -:- Deep theta -:- Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 11:25:08 (GMT)

__ __ __ Ex Scientologist -:- Deep theta -:- Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 21:03:26 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ dv -:- Whatever nt -:- Thurs, Sep 07, 2000 at 01:36:56 (GMT)

__ __ __ Jim -:- You can't be serious -:- Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 15:25:46 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Salam -:- But not impossible...nt -:- Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 16:16:14 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ dv -:- Like I said, I enjoy the relaxation, which is more -:- Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 15:47:11 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Where is that part of the site? (nt) -:- Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 15:56:12 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ dv -:- Where is that part of the site? (nt) -:- Thurs, Sep 07, 2000 at 01:39:17 (GMT)

__ __ __ sam -:- Deep theta -:- Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 11:50:02 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ dv -:- Deep theta -:- Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 12:44:08 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- Deep theta -:- Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 14:01:31 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Jerry -:- Deep theta -:- Fri, Sep 08, 2000 at 03:00:12 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Linda Lovelace -:- Deep throat ? -:- Fri, Sep 08, 2000 at 04:54:21 (GMT)

ExTex -:- A serious question. -:- Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 07:26:32 (GMT)

__ Ex CIA Agent -:- '1972' -:- Fri, Sep 08, 2000 at 19:16:11 (GMT)

__ Scott T. -:- A serious question. -:- Thurs, Sep 07, 2000 at 02:21:24 (GMT)

__ __ Selene -:- and a silly thanks!! -:- Thurs, Sep 07, 2000 at 04:19:39 (GMT)

__ __ __ Nigel -:- Sounds like Hank's neighbour... -:- Thurs, Sep 07, 2000 at 18:14:02 (GMT)

__ Joe -:- Please. -:- Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 18:57:20 (GMT)

__ Jim -:- Check under your foamie -:- Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 15:20:15 (GMT)

__ Paul -:- A serious question. -:- Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 14:29:36 (GMT)

__ gerry -:- I'll go there... -:- Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 14:19:09 (GMT)

__ __ ExTex -:- I'll go there... -:- Thurs, Sep 07, 2000 at 07:51:40 (GMT)

__ __ ExTex -:- I'll go there... -:- Thurs, Sep 07, 2000 at 07:48:38 (GMT)

__ __ __ Jim -:- Now THIS is a perfect example of what's wrong here -:- Fri, Sep 08, 2000 at 00:28:11 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ ExTex -:- Now THIS is a perfect example of what's wrong here -:- Fri, Sep 08, 2000 at 02:36:14 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Sorry, your reasoning's confused here -:- Fri, Sep 08, 2000 at 16:07:38 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- God Dammit! Where's my fucking post? FA's? -:- Fri, Sep 08, 2000 at 16:09:31 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Shroomananda -:- Maybe God is behind the conspiracy of Maharaji! -:- Fri, Sep 08, 2000 at 04:45:14 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ ExTex -:- Maybe 'God' Is a Conspiracy! Har Har -:- Fri, Sep 08, 2000 at 05:19:49 (GMT)

__ __ __ ExTex -:- My Mistake?. -:- Thurs, Sep 07, 2000 at 14:50:07 (GMT)

__ __ __ Jean-Michel -:- Who's been manipulating the young child? -:- Thurs, Sep 07, 2000 at 10:20:02 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Scott T. -:- Who's been manipulating the young child? -:- Thurs, Sep 07, 2000 at 13:33:39 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Jean-Michel -:- Each one/them for his own purpose: no conspiracy! -:- Thurs, Sep 07, 2000 at 15:12:58 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- conspiracy or no conspiracy? -:- Thurs, Sep 07, 2000 at 17:27:13 (GMT)

__ exJack -:- A serious question. -:- Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 09:08:39 (GMT)

__ __ ExTex -:- A serious question. -:- Thurs, Sep 07, 2000 at 03:03:14 (GMT)

__ __ __ Scott T. -:- A serious question. -:- Thurs, Sep 07, 2000 at 20:19:43 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ ExTex -:- Do Some Homework... -:- Fri, Sep 08, 2000 at 04:06:42 (GMT)

Hal -:- Those posts below from Yves -:- Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 06:44:27 (GMT)

__ Yves -:- You took two posts -:- Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 13:26:00 (GMT)

__ Hal -:- Sorry should say Yves and others nt -:- Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 06:46:34 (GMT)

__ __ Yves -:- Must I remain quiet for more profound posts... -:- Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 12:37:17 (GMT)

__ __ __ Hal -:- Thanks for your consideration -:- Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 15:06:11 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Yves -:- Policy and politeness aside, what do you expect? -:- Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 15:26:54 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ cq -:- The original point is a VERY valid one -:- Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 18:13:24 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Hal -:- I explained very simply that -:- Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 15:37:50 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Yves exposed -:- Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 15:55:11 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Stonor -:- No Jim, it's racist, but you know that. NT -:- Thurs, Sep 07, 2000 at 04:05:00 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- I knew it... -:- Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 16:16:08 (GMT)

__ __ __ Salam -:- Good point..nt -:- Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 13:00:27 (GMT)

sai billda -:- mushroom food? -:- Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 03:54:27 (GMT)

__ Yves -:- I go for a goddess who gets cranky once a month -:- Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 13:21:10 (GMT)

__ Mahatma Dave Anand Ji -:- mushroom food? -:- Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 10:58:32 (GMT)

__ __ Salam -:- Pitty to Gumji look alike..nt -:- Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 11:22:22 (GMT)

__ __ __ Salam -:- That should read : no Gumji..nt -:- Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 11:23:37 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Sir Dave -:- Well, we've got one lookalike -:- Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 11:39:44 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Salam -:- You got to be confused and deluded. -:- Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 12:45:26 (GMT)

Jim -:- Bullies or Hot House Flowers? -:- Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 01:07:37 (GMT)

__ Gail -:- Hey, Jim--Sorry I missed you! nt -:- Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 16:57:05 (GMT)

__ G -:- No -:- Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 04:29:18 (GMT)

__ __ Scott T. -:- You too can be simple, with a little practice. -:- Thurs, Sep 07, 2000 at 00:06:45 (GMT)

__ __ __ Shroomananda -:- Alvin Lee rocks! (And so does Pink Floyd) NT -:- Thurs, Sep 07, 2000 at 02:09:46 (GMT)

__ __ Jim -:- Yes -:- Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 15:03:44 (GMT)

__ __ __ bla bla bla bla bla -:- How would you describe hyposensitivity? -:- Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 20:48:04 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Sir Dave -:- How would you describe hyposensitivity? -:- Thurs, Sep 07, 2000 at 01:11:50 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ yes -:- exactly what I meant nt -:- Thurs, Sep 07, 2000 at 07:22:41 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ hoo -:- pests -:- Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 21:19:05 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ cq -:- hoo? not an ex-sannyasin are you? (on 2nd thought) -:- Thurs, Sep 07, 2000 at 20:06:13 (GMT)

__ __ __ G -:- grouping people -:- Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 18:17:03 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Scott T. -:- grouping people -:- Thurs, Sep 07, 2000 at 00:20:25 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ G -:- behaviour vs behavior -:- Thurs, Sep 07, 2000 at 03:30:50 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- grouping people -:- Thurs, Sep 07, 2000 at 01:54:06 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Scott T. -:- grading people -:- Thurs, Sep 07, 2000 at 04:06:36 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ cq -:- stereotyping people -:- Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 18:40:32 (GMT)

__ __ __ Salam -:- Yes or no make up your minds. -:- Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 17:42:43 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Selene -:- what the heck IS a hot house flower anyway? -:- Thurs, Sep 07, 2000 at 21:49:34 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Scott T. -:- what the heck IS a hot house flower anyway? -:- Thurs, Sep 07, 2000 at 22:27:09 (GMT)

__ Nigel -:- forum manners as forum discussion... -:- Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 03:21:55 (GMT)

__ __ Jim -:- Guess what? We beat city hall tonight! -:- Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 04:04:48 (GMT)

__ __ __ Michael -:- Guess what? We beat city hall tonight! -:- Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 04:10:07 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Jim -:- Oh yeah, I forgot -:- Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 04:20:49 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Jim -:- Do we have to wear Tilley hats? -:- Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 04:13:19 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Michael -:- Did you bully him? -:- Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 04:16:09 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Yes and no -:- Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 04:19:12 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Michael -:- Mostly yes -:- Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 04:25:09 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Shroomananda -:- Bite me, Shroom? From a preacher? My goodness! -:- Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 05:50:15 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- And what kind of language do you think M favors? -:- Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 15:08:19 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ cq -:- I wondered what this conversation had to do with -:- Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 18:29:03 (GMT)

__ __ Joe -:- I agree completely, Nigel.... -:- Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 03:32:10 (GMT)

__ __ __ JohnT -:- I also agree with Nigel.... -:- Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 20:58:56 (GMT)

__ __ Elan Vital -:- We never have these problems on OUR websites! -:- Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 03:29:43 (GMT)

__ __ __ Jim -:- You are so funny. Too bad you should be blocked -:- Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 04:07:32 (GMT)

__ Shroomananda -:- Are bullies assholes, Jim? Or just us premies? -:- Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 01:18:33 (GMT)

__ __ Rob -:- What, am I worse than Jim? I'm flattered!! -:- Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 03:26:12 (GMT)

__ __ __ Shroomananda -:- Actually, I'm just tired of your verbosity. I get -:- Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 05:53:21 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Rob -:- Oh sorry, do I give you a migraine? -:- Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 20:46:58 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Shroomananda -:- Yes, he does, Rob. When I listen to him, I'm -:- Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 23:37:48 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Rob -:- I don't know how much simpler I could put that.. -:- Thurs, Sep 07, 2000 at 06:17:03 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Shroomananda -:- Look, Rob. I have no idea what you are trying to -:- Thurs, Sep 07, 2000 at 07:05:08 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Rob -:- Let me spell it out for you then. -:- Fri, Sep 08, 2000 at 00:59:59 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Shroomananda -:- Whether I think he's God, a Master, someone -:- Fri, Sep 08, 2000 at 05:03:06 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Shroo expresses the perfect premie credo -:- Thurs, Sep 07, 2000 at 15:40:59 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Shroomananda -:- Perfect premie credo, Jim? Did you catch the -:- Thurs, Sep 07, 2000 at 21:09:49 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Yes, I've got something better -:- Fri, Sep 08, 2000 at 01:34:30 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Shroomananda -:- I feel sorry for you, Jim. You're so bitter and -:- Fri, Sep 08, 2000 at 05:22:04 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Scott T. -:- Yes, he does, Rob. When I listen to him, I'm -:- Thurs, Sep 07, 2000 at 04:32:14 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Shroomananda -:- Well, if you felt that she was somehow in the room -:- Thurs, Sep 07, 2000 at 05:24:28 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Scott T. -:- Well, if you felt that she was somehow in the room -:- Thurs, Sep 07, 2000 at 13:31:28 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Jim -:- Let's face it, Shroom -:- Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 15:31:24 (GMT)

__ __ __ English Instructor -:- It's 'propagandist' not 'progogandist, and, also. -:- Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 03:44:14 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Collins Dictionary -:- It's 'propagandist' not 'progogandist, and, also. -:- Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 12:02:45 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ G -:- propagandist -:- Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 21:40:41 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ JohnT -:- ... as we were saying below -:- Thurs, Sep 07, 2000 at 03:40:50 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ G -:- ... as we were saying below -:- Thurs, Sep 07, 2000 at 04:37:25 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ JohnT -:- ... as we were saying below -:- Thurs, Sep 07, 2000 at 13:19:26 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ G -:- ... as we were saying below -:- Fri, Sep 08, 2000 at 02:28:31 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Scott T. -:- ... as we were saying below -:- Thurs, Sep 07, 2000 at 22:54:50 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ JohnT -:- oh yes -:- Fri, Sep 08, 2000 at 08:28:46 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Michael -:- propagandist -:- Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 22:51:04 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Scott T. -:- propagandist -:- Thurs, Sep 07, 2000 at 01:03:01 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Rob -:- Thank you Sir -:- Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 04:44:02 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Jim -:- How 'bout 'propagandistic'? (nt) -:- Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 04:09:22 (GMT)

__ Stonor -:- Just call me a Venus Fly Trap, Jim. (nt) -:- Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 01:17:32 (GMT)

__ __ Jim -:- How about a milkweed? (nt) -:- Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 16:04:22 (GMT)

__ Michael -:- 'wrestle with the ghosts of Hans Jayanti past.' -:- Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 01:13:18 (GMT)

__ __ sai billda -:- 'wrestle with the ghosts of Hans Jayanti past.' -:- Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 03:13:44 (GMT)

__ __ Glen Whittaker -:- 'wrestle with the ghosts of Hans Jayanti past.' -:- Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 01:27:27 (GMT)

__ __ __ Jim -:- 'wrestle with the ghosts of Hans Jayanti past.' -:- Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 04:10:49 (GMT)

__ __ __ Roger eDrek -:- Who the hell cares about ghosts when... -:- Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 02:53:38 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Jim -:- That is SO ABUSIVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! -:- Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 04:16:48 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Roger eDrek -:- Because you see yourself as a Satan worshipper? -:- Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 04:54:33 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ sai billda -:- Roger eDevil! -:- Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 03:11:50 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Roger eDrek -:- And you are the master of disguise! (nt) -:- Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 03:31:51 (GMT)

Date: Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 16:32:30 (GMT) From: gerry Email: None To: Everyone Subject: JohnT revisited, or what Yves is denying us with Message:

his bullshit posts. I like this post by JohnT a lot, and have taken the liberty to repost it here. Hope you don't mind, JohnT. Hi Jennifer, I just read your Journey. I don't recall how I first found this site - probably the wife asking me to find the EV website and me spotting the ex-premie.org in the listing that came up. Then I read all the Journeys. Every one. I wept and raged. I was appalled. The reason I hate Rawat as much as I do (which is more than I can express - and believe me, I've given it my best shot!) is in the Journeys - including yours. He perverts the love and idealism of open-hearted and beautiful people into something sordid and evil. That filthy fraud Rawat first came into my life when I was 17 or so, and still at school. I never bought into the scene. I was fucked up enough; not nice enough tho' - far too hard-boiled. In those days I drank heavily, despised poetry, and hated anything remotely 'spiritual'. Yet I hated that false messiah even more! I was safe from the fat 14 year old, as me and my mates derided the fool. BUT he sucked the life blood out of the counter-culture that seemed to be flourishing in Bristol, England at that time. No end (it seemed to me) of beautiful young people started following him. They no longer put their love and energy into their community, friends and family. They became superior in attitude; kept secrets from the rest of us; and came to view us as foolish and lost for rejecting m's trojan gift without even trying it. It was horrible to watch the idealism of those days go to fatten the belly of beasts like Rawat and the hard drug dealers that moved in on a generation that thought it could make a difference. Decades later, when I met my wife, it was like a time warp! She was shy to talk about Rawat - but I knew enough to tease and laugh her through to opening up a tad about things. Just to say the feelings are hers - nothing you can feel that can't be felt - and nothing to do with grace or whatever. I took her involvement very lightly. She had lapped her 'knowledge' from a toilet - but had not immersed herself so far in the shitty reality of Rawat's racket that she had become depraved. A butterfly, sipping from the pretty lotus that hid the rank and festering swamp beneath. I have taken that lotus and placed it in my heart. And I have found friends who would drain the swamp. For in that fetid swamp, below the beautiful lotus blossoms, lurks a gross and poisonous toad that feeds on the butterflies. When the swamp drains, the toad will die, just as he has killed so many others. And the lotus flower in my heart will blossom in joy that an evil has been removed from the earth.

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Date: Thurs, Sep 07, 2000 at 00:19:26 (GMT) From: O Email: None To: gerry Subject: JohnT revisited, or what Yves is denying us with Message:

I've observed two themes that are bones of contention for most non-premies:that they hate the fact anyone would have something more or be better than they themselves have, and that there would be only one source for this special thing called Knowledge.Well boys and girls get used to it,there are many things you don't have that your frail little egos will probably never admit. For example for a statistical majority of the population real wisdom is not a common commodity;consciousness is a tool that is grossly misused;humility is a lost art; and true genius is so rare even intelligent people don't realize they don't have it.So get used to it,there's a lot you come up short with…statisticaly speaking that is. Then there's one other thing non-premies don't have…that is even rarer…ie:the way to know eternity. The ignorance of the Master's role as expressed by JohnT and others who claim they know of life's true beauty will never stop the heart's desire to know the secret within. And as long as this desire lives in human beings there will be someone to offer guidance to them.Many of these will be false, yes…but there will always be one who is not. Life is a terminal affair…a fact statistically overlooked by most.But a few know that it is only the beholder who never dies who can BECOME beauty.The rest must settle for an observance and a longing.And for some to begrudge and deny the possibility that more could be possible. The swamp will never be drained JohnT,and the lotus belongs to only God.A flower picked is bound to die.

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Date: Thurs, Sep 07, 2000 at 09:12:58 (GMT) From: sam Email: - To: O Subject: JohnT revisited, or what Yves is denying us with Message:

could you supply a bibliography for some of the things you state as truths please? ex prems dont hate the 'betters and more'- I wanted and sought the best and was told by m we'd found it. you say we're not in the genius league- are you? when I had an IQ test I actually qualified in the GL.(dont say humility is a lost art- this is just statistics.)who said 'there'll always be someone' to offer guidence, and who said they know anymore than you or I, or who says they're not false? Everyone knows about the terminal affair- did you really think some didnt? and the rest I wouldnt comment on! gee, am I sounding like an ex devotee? you actually sound like a master--are you thinking of setting up shop? I hear the returns are profitable.

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Date: Thurs, Sep 07, 2000 at 05:51:09 (GMT) From: Hal Email: None To: O Subject: Ah at last a premie who's made it ! Message:

So you know eternity do you O ? You practised meditation for several decades and what you experience is eternity? How do you know that what you experience is eternity ? Surely you'll only know that for sure when you cease existing as a finite being and become THAT. Or perhaps you just believe it's an eternal experience because Goomrodgie told you so ? Hal

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Date: Thurs, Sep 07, 2000 at 04:29:45 (GMT) From: ExTex Email: None To: O Subject: Jon T revisited or what Yves, etc Message:

Well 'O', that was quite a posting. What I would call PURE GRADE A LA-LA LAND BULLSHIT! Look in yourself for the 'big answers' and quit trying to have somebody spoon feed them to you as your 'Master'. No Masters! No Gods! Thank you very much.

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Date: Thurs, Sep 07, 2000 at 01:28:04 (GMT) From: Selene Email: None To: O Subject: read your own post Message:

Who is talking for humanity here? When you say stuff like: example for a statistical majority of the population real wisdom is not a common commodity;consciousness is a tool that is grossly misused;humility is a lost art; and true genius is so rare even intelligent people don't realize they don't have it. also, the only person I know that WE talk about who is claiming to know the source of life's true beauty is Maharaji. I think he is lying and very wealthy because of it. And, worse, has hurt a lot of lives by causing them/us to think stupid things like It doesn't matter if I save for retirement. It doesn't matter about career. about family and friends because in the end i'll die and have only my breath blah blah blah.. I hate that kind of sickening thinking. one could waste one's entire life thinking like that and missing out on friends, family real moments of love, fleeting though they may be they are precious and who is that asshole to tell us they are not? And don't bother telling me he didn't say it. I was there and he even has lots of it on video LEST WE FORGET.

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Date: Thurs, Sep 07, 2000 at 23:47:33 (GMT) From: O Email: None To: Selene Subject: read your own post Message:

You said it yourself so well Selene……FLEETING they are.If that's good enough for you then you gotta ask yourself what you expected from Knowledge anyway.Believe me,there is a joy that isn't 'fleeting' that is worth sacrificing some of those things you mention,if not all.And for many,that is the choice they made.The fact you stopped believing such a joy exists has no bearing whatsoever on its existence.And if you were to care about such a thing you certainly couldn't expect the rest of the world to have a clue what you're talking about…..you'd have to be prepared go it alone,which isn't easy. But I bet it feels good that you are now accepted by friends,family and 'the world' as an 'ex',doesn't it Selene?That's all you ever really wanted anyway,isn't it?

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Date: Fri, Sep 08, 2000 at 00:15:43 (GMT) From: Selene Email: None To: O Subject: you are being silly Message:

Being 'accepted'? Here? No that is not what I live for or all I ever wanted or want. Sitting in rooms with people I couldn't relate to and pretending to adore M, or is it pretending not to but to love his message, didn't do it for me though. You may not believe this but one can still have a lot of things going for them, and not be a premie. Why is it when someone attacks the belief system of M's cult, the premies retaliate with personal attacks? by the way my real friends never knew I was a premie. I was too embarrassed to tell them until I had left M!!

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Date: Fri, Sep 08, 2000 at 01:10:13 (GMT) From: O Email: None To: Selene Subject: you are being silly Message:

I question your honesty Selene.Are you not accepted more by family,friends and the world as an ex than a premie?You don't prefer to be 'accepted' than not being accepted?And I wasn't attacking you personally,just questioning where you were coming from and why you would have pursued K when those 'fleeting' pleasures are enough for you. Your defensiveness completely skewed your ability to see my point.I'm finding that that's just normal conversation with you guys.

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Date: Fri, Sep 08, 2000 at 03:13:18 (GMT) From: Selene Email: None To: O Subject: I didn't seek K Message:

I was 17! I didn't know my ass from a hole in the ground. I had run away from home, taken every drug known, someone said, 'go here do this' and I did it. Why I hung around so long is trickier. That I credit to peer presure and my own lack of understanding what had happened to me. and basic lack of assertiveness. I don't think I am being dishonest with you. I am perhaps defensive and if so I'm sorry. It's not an easy time for me to hear about minimizing the importance of family. And again, I have no way to gauge if I am 'more accepted' now because I didn't tell coworkers or non premie friends about M.

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Date: Fri, Sep 08, 2000 at 15:38:25 (GMT) From: O Email: None To: Selene Subject: I didn't seek K Message:

You said>>>'I was 17! I didn't know my ass from a hole in the ground. I had run away from home, taken every drug known, someone said, 'go here do this' and I did it.' Me>>>So what you are saying Selene is you don't see yourself as accountable for a decision to pursue Knowledge.You were 17, drugged out, and on your own.....vulnerable in other words. Well that seems to be the pattern for ex-premies.You all seem to find a way to not have to be accountable for yourself as a premie and therefore leave you free to blame someone else.Well let me tell you,many men volunteered to fight a war and subsequently died when they were 17.Should they blame someone else for their decision?Were they too young to be take responsibility for their actions?If so then how as a society can we justify sending young men into harms way?That would be the BIGGEST crime,yes? No Selene,truth is every step of the way it was you who made choices:to take drugs,to run away,to pursue Knowledge.If you don't stop *today* absolving yourself of the responsibility for those actions you'll never heal.You can start *today* being a responsible human being Selene by accepting that you are where you are *today* because of decisions that YOU and no one else made.Recognize that some of them were not healthy for you sure,but baby,if you don't recognize this fact you'll never be in control of your life. Of course if you did you'd have no one left to blame....no one but yourself,that is.But then maybe you'd start to learn the secret of compassion.

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Date: Fri, Sep 08, 2000 at 16:15:53 (GMT) From: Selene Email: None To: O Subject: you are interpreting Message:

Placing blame is a natural reaction to anger. At some point I usualy let it go, even with my father who was terribly abusive. AND I don't blame myself either when I have been scammeded or deliberately hurt, no I do NOT blame myself. There is a big difference between the new agey personal responsibility/accountability of the victim crap and the natural healing process which did indeed entail anger and blame for me at first. And I do think that has to happen, for me anyway, before I let it go. It isn't healthy for ME to stay in that state of anger about anyone but I do not speak for anyone here or get along wtih everyone here or share everyones opinions on this subject. I post here because it helps sometimes. Sometimes it's a habit and another web site to visit while I am online. Sometimes to continue a dialog, as just now. Not to mention telling others my thoughts feelings and experiences witht the cult. Does that bother you that I do that? What is your reason for posting here? You are another one, it seems, who takes someones post, dissects it and analyzes it to death to proove a point. Or worse yet twists it to suit their needs. Talk about being defensive. As I said before, read you own posts.

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Date: Sat, Sep 09, 2000 at 00:19:01 (GMT) From: O Email: None To: Selene Subject: We are all interpreting Selene Message:

I like everyone raises questions in others' arguments as there appears to be holes in thiose arguments.It's not defensive,it's not offensive,it's just using the tools at my command to challenge positions I believe to be false.I have the right to have an opposite opinion and as per the de facto on-line rules of engagement,to analyse and challenge what others have to say.I've watched you and you do the same,but in your own way.That is called dialog.So are you up to the task of dialog Selene?

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Date: Sat, Sep 09, 2000 at 07:31:53 (GMT) From: Selene Email: None To: O Subject: up to the task of dialog? Message:

Sure. why not? I'll dialog. We are running out of thread, the fabric will weave itself at a later day. I'm fading out of here as I prepare to go away for a while. but, sure, I'll talk to you. Why not? bye for now O. hey are you related to X ? just curious, similar family names and all :) Would that make you the younger or older brother? alphabetically speaking, birth order, etc... anyway IMO if this were a debate, I won. haha. I don't know fuck all about 'rules of engagement' but I just think so. why else would you keep talking to me? oh well, maybe you are looking for the easy target as rob so knowingly said to shroom. if so, good luck. I am not easy just fun loving. BIG difference!!

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Date: Fri, Sep 08, 2000 at 22:00:49 (GMT) From: JohnT Email: None To: Selene Subject: Nice one, Selene (nt) Message:

Ta!

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Date: Sat, Sep 09, 2000 at 07:48:23 (GMT) From: Selene Email: None To: JohnT Subject: thanks - just a gut level reaction Message:

you know, one of those 'fleeting' things :)

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Date: Sat, Sep 09, 2000 at 12:36:54 (GMT) From: JohnT Email: None To: Selene Subject: You've got guts Selene. Trust them. Big hug. (nt) Message:

nt

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Date: Thurs, Sep 07, 2000 at 09:19:28 (GMT) From: sam Email: - To: Selene Subject: could'nt agree more...nt Message:

nt goodonya!

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Date: Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 19:42:23 (GMT) From: JohnT Email: None To: gerry Subject: No problem Gerry - does anyone know ... Message:

... the people Jennifer wants to find. She mentions them in her Journeys entry The reason for the static, in my opinion, is that we've got one toad crushing jagannatha moving here! That's exiting.

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Date: Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 16:56:56 (GMT) From: Ha Email: None To: gerry Subject: JohnT revisited, or what Yves is denying us with Message:

Wow , Thanks for reviving that one gerry. I missed it before. Thanks to you John T for such a touching post. Hal

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Date: Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 13:00:10 (GMT) From: Yves Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Maharaji talked to me in my Rice Krispies Message:

He gave me the Agya to tell you all it is all over now. Since his dad didn't retire in time, he does now.

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Date: Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 17:12:02 (GMT) From: Sir Dave Email: None To: Yves Subject: I'm a Quaker Oats man myself Message:

And I have one small suggestion to prevent you getting people all steamed up around here. You could put all of these posts into just ONE post. That would save the verticle space on the index aand you would still be getting your message across.

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Date: Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 14:18:50 (GMT) From: Yves Email: None To: Yves Subject: Leak to the press Message:

http://www.nationalenquirer.com/

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Date: Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 15:06:34 (GMT) From: Yves Email: None To: Yves Subject: Leaked to the press Message:

-----Original Message----- From: Yves Sent: 6 septembre, 2000 10:55 To: letters@nationalenquirer.com Subject: Guru Maharaj Ji Guru Maharaj ji had it big during the 70's and 80's. In 1973, his organization rented the Huston Astrodome for an extravaganza they claimed was 'The most significant event in the history of mankind'. See the vidoe about the event http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00001OX01/o/qid=968250633/sr=8-1/ref=aps_sr_v_1_3/102-5741595-6330552 Short time after a family quarrel had religious business split between brothers in India and child guru. Guru (born dec, 10 1957) is now filthy rich, pilots his own jet and lives in Malibu mansion. Since the early 70's he managed to dodge media. http://www.ex-premie.org/papers/lear55.htm http://ex-premie.org/pages/malibu.htm Since, former devotees have founded many web sites to lampoon former God as scandals popped out of the woodworks. http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Chateau/7204/homepage.htm http://ex-premie.org/index.htm http://ex-premie.org/pages/links.htm http://www.oz.net/~drek/dance_dirty.html One allegation concerns an aide involved in sex with minors has never was pursued but educated rumors has ... (you'll see) http://www.ex-premie.org/papers/jagdeo.htm Hidden in the Guru's organization webpage are these comments which states they never heard of what happened 25 years ago. http://www.elanvital.org/faq_opposing_views.htm Ex-devotees have published in a Boston daily an open letter they titled Maharaji Responsibility Campaign (MRC). In response Guru's lawyers have summoned internet providers to silence webpages where criticism was voiced under the allegation copyrights were violated. Lawyers have since stopped returning calls to clarify which copyright they claimed.

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Date: Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 15:20:54 (GMT) From: Salam Email: None To: Yves Subject: I do not know if I should like you or hate you? Message:

On one hand you are clogging the forum with your threads, on the other I did enjoy some of your links, especially the one on video. I bet EV and gm are scraching the head so hard, their ears have fallen off.

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Date: Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 15:39:20 (GMT) From: Yves Email: None To: Salam Subject: Thanks for voicing appreciation and criticism... Message:

I' try to limit my 'clogging' until software is improved. Many of us seem to agree my participation is not welcomed here. I always knew I was an adopted child. Nobody loved me and I am the only dark-skinned/nego/afro-american in the family.

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Date: Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 15:44:09 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: Yves Subject: Oh come off it, Yves Message:

Yves, What is this? You're an albino. You know that. That means you're particularly light-skinned, not dark. Now, maybe you're an albino Afro-American but so is Michael Jackson and we KNOW he's adopted. Just look at his brothers. But Michael's done well for himself. Maybe you just need to try a bit more or something.

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Date: Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 16:12:56 (GMT) From: Salam Email: None To: Jim Subject: Oh come off it, Yves Message:

Note that I have only adopted Corn Flakes as my breakfast. I think next time I will try rice kricpies, see if I can hear something.

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Date: Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 14:14:52 (GMT) From: Yves Email: None To: Yves Subject: Child actor Message:

http://us.imdb.com/Name?Culkin,+Macaulay

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Date: Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 14:14:10 (GMT) From: Yves Email: None To: Yves Subject: Child actress Message:

http://us.imdb.com/Name?Garland,+Judy

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Date: Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 14:11:28 (GMT) From: Yves Email: None To: Yves Subject: Child singer Message:

http://us.imdb.com/Name?Dion,+C%E9line

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Date: Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 14:07:38 (GMT) From: Yves Email: None To: Yves Subject: Child molester (alleged) Message:

http://www.ex-premie.org/papers/jagdeo.htm

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Date: Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 14:06:26 (GMT) From: Yves Email: None To: Yves Subject: Childish Message:

http://shopping.yahoo.com/Home_and_Garden/Housewares/Tableware/Dishes_and_China/

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Date: Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 14:05:22 (GMT) From: Yves Email: None To: Yves Subject: Child impersonator Message:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00001OX01/o/qid=968248553/sr=8-4/ref=aps_sr_v_2_1/102-5741595-6330552

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Date: Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 13:52:29 (GMT) From: Yves Email: None To: Yves Subject: Child actress Message:

http://us.imdb.com/Name?Temple,+Shirley

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Date: Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 13:50:29 (GMT) From: Yves Email: None To: Yves Subject: Book calls Nectar 'Greatest political mystery' Message:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0465026133/o/qid=968247994/sr=8-1/ref=aps_sr_b_1_3/102-5741595-6330552

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Date: Thurs, Sep 07, 2000 at 00:52:40 (GMT) From: Dr.No Email: None To: Yves Subject: Moses talked to me in my corn flakes Message:

you just gotta be cute.. Are you ?

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Date: Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 11:12:39 (GMT) From: Salam Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Who needs knowledge, the Binaural Beat is here Message:

If a steady tone of say 395Hz is applied to your left ear, and a steady tone of 49\05Hz to your right ear, the difference, 10Hz, will be percevied by your brain. Since inaudiable low frequencies (like 10Hz) are required for brain stimulation, binaurial beats are the way of applying such stimulus. Entraining brain to a desired state with binaural beats If external stimulus is applied to the brain, it becomes possible to entrain the brain frequency from one brain state to another. For example, if a person is in the beta state (highly alert) and a stimulus of 10Hz is applied to his/her brain for some time, the brain frequency is likely to change towards the applied stimulus. The effect will be relaxing to the person. This phenomenon is also called frequency following response. When the brain's state is close to the applied stimulus, entrainment works more efficiently. Thus, when doing a sweep from one frequency to another, the starting frequency should be as close to the current brain state as possible. The sweep speed should be such that the brain's state changes steadily with it, so that the difference never gets very large. In practice, it is difficult to determine the brain state without complex EEG measurement equipment. However, you can quite safely assume that during the day your brain is in the beta state (about 20Hz) and you can start a frequency sweep from there. If you are already somewhat relaxed, you can use a start frequency of 15Hz or a few Hz lower. Stimulating the brain The easiest way of applying stimulus to the brain is via ears and eyes. Since humans cannot hear sounds low enough to be useful for brain stimulation, special techniques must be used. One such special technique used is called binaural beats. If the left ear is presented with a steady tone of 495Hz and the right ear a steady tone of 505Hz, these two tones combine in the brain. The difference, 10Hz, is perceived by the brain and is a very effective stimulus for brainwave entrainment. This 10Hz is formed entirely by the brain. When using stereo headphones, the left and right sounds do not mix together until in your brain. The frequency difference, when perceived by brain this way, is called a binaural beat. To get a stimulus of 10Hz, you may use tones of 495Hz and 505Hz, or 400Hz and 410Hz, or 862Hz and 872Hz, or so on. The only requirements are that the tone is heard well enough and that it is below about 1000Hz. Below 1000Hz, the wavelength of the sound is sufficiently small so that the sound waves curve around the skull. Stimulating the brain with visual stimulus Visual stimulation is easier than aural stimulation because low frequencies can readily be used. A frequency of 10Hz, for example, is generated when a led is flashed on and off 10 times a second in the front of your eyes. When visual stimulus is in synch with aural stimulus, effects are highly increased over using only visual or only aural stimulus.

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Date: Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 11:34:43 (GMT) From: Jerry Email: None To: Salam Subject: More hype Message:

I've got a couple of these 'mind machines', as they're called. They're an interesting novelty toy, but their appeal wears thin, soon enough. Wanna buy one, cheap?

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Date: Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 12:30:51 (GMT) From: Salam Email: None To: Jerry Subject: But but this is free. Message:

I put this up as I thought it may be relevant to the light and sound techniques and can explain (perhaps, maybe, maybe not) their effect. I tried it, and this one seems to have something in it.

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Date: Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 11:16:05 (GMT) From: Salam Email: None To: Salam Subject: Link Message:

You can download the Brain Wave Generator an try it for yourself. Read the warning before running the program: http://www.bwgen.com Enjoy

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Date: Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 11:25:08 (GMT) From: dv Email: None To: Salam Subject: Deep theta Message:

I just started techniques for entering deep theta states, and have deeper and much more engaging and interesting experiences the first time than with 25 years of practising knowledge. And I didn't have to pranam or 'feel gratitude' to Pudge and Mala when I finished:)!

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Date: Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 21:03:26 (GMT) From: Ex Scientologist Email: None To: dv Subject: Deep theta Message:

Now there's a Scientology word if ever I heard one. THETA Ex Scientologist

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Date: Thurs, Sep 07, 2000 at 01:36:56 (GMT) From: dv Email: None To: Ex Scientologist Subject: Whatever nt Message:

nt

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Date: Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 15:25:46 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: dv Subject: You can't be serious Message:

I checked out the website and it's whack. I don't care what kind of secret research they have from the former U.S.S.R. (always impressive, I'm sure), anyone who thinks that animals are engaging in some sort of sublime 'remote viewing' is nuts.

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Date: Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 16:16:14 (GMT) From: Salam Email: None To: Jim Subject: But not impossible...nt Message:

nt

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Date: Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 15:47:11 (GMT) From: dv Email: None To: Jim Subject: Like I said, I enjoy the relaxation, which is more Message:

healthy to me these days than a couple beers.

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Date: Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 15:56:12 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: dv Subject: Where is that part of the site? (nt) Message:

hhh

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Date: Thurs, Sep 07, 2000 at 01:39:17 (GMT) From: dv Email: None To: Jim Subject: Where is that part of the site? (nt) Message:

Not the site, the tapes. If anything significant happens, I'll let you know. Hmmm- have any pets?

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Date: Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 11:50:02 (GMT) From: sam Email: - To: dv Subject: Deep theta Message:

can you tell me more?

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Date: Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 12:44:08 (GMT) From: dv Email: None To: sam Subject: Deep theta Message:

Recently I discovered that my blood pressure is high, AND THAT PISSES ME OFF!Whoops. I am on a campaign to reduce it, and this is one of several avenues taken. I am finding the relaxation outweighs the hype with this course of six audio tapes,and I am not concerned about the rather outrageous claims made by some. Also, it's only a hundred bucks. I am reluctant to post this on this forum, but here it is: http://www.probablefuture.com/contents.htm

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Date: Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 14:01:31 (GMT) From: gerry Email: None To: dv Subject: Deep theta Message:

The Monroe Institute pioneered this work and it is effective. I don't know what 'mind machines' Jerry has, but these are tapes or cd's. I tried them and didn't have much of an 'experience' but like I've said several times before, Patty went to the moon on them, first time and everytime.

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Date: Fri, Sep 08, 2000 at 03:00:12 (GMT) From: Jerry Email: None To: gerry Subject: Deep theta Message:

Gerry, I have a couple of cd's from the Monroe Institute. I listen to them when I'm reading. They're great white noise to keep out distractions, that's about it. I know they're supposed to do much more than that, but like Knowledge, not for me. I also have a couple of sound and light machines that are supposed to entrain my brain to frequencies in the delta and theta range, depending on what settings I use. I enjoyed the novelty of these machines. But for relaxation, I find just sitting back and listening to my favorite music does a much better job of it.

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Date: Fri, Sep 08, 2000 at 04:54:21 (GMT) From: Linda Lovelace Email: None To: Jerry Subject: Deep throat ? Message:

hfd

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Date: Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 07:26:32 (GMT) From: ExTex Email: None To: Everyone Subject: A serious question. Message:

I am wondering if anyone from the earlier days (around the DLM and Astrodome days) ever saw evidence of any possible connection to ANY government agencys with Goo-Margie and DLM?? Or heard anything from reliable friends who were PAMS or know of any Intelligence backgrounds of ANY PAMS? As the 12 year old perfect master he was an abused child, obviously... (Psychologically speaking. Hardly a healthy situation for a child) and most clearly manipulated by someone. He was a little kid! And the political climate in this country was getting pretty revolutionary....volatile. It sure was awfully convienient to get thousands of people who were no longer interested in what this country was offering or doing to sit down all ga-ga at the Lotus feet. Getting Rennie Davis of the infamous Chicago 7 indoctrinated was a BIG recruiting tool at the time. A BIG DEAL WAS MADE OUT OF THE FACT THAT HE WAS NOW A 'DEVOTEE'! DLM had him running around the country (sincerely) giving out the satsang about the NEW PATH. A thousands of potential revolutionaries (remember the times?) traded their radical politics and lifestyles for satsang, sercice to M and meditation. And then 'Blissed-out'! Out of sight! No more protests, no more demonstrations...I heard 'satsang' about 'loving Nixon and the American war machine' and it was GM who promised to bring 'peace on earth'. All we had to do was be devoted to him and he would do it all. Are you familiar with the MK-Ultra CIA program? How about the CoIntel Program? (Surf the web for them) I have read a lot of very convincing and disturbing stuff about that other cult that started up (around the same time) in primarily black neighborhoods (remember the times?). Jim Jones Peoples Temple! Lots of Intelligence connections seem to be involved there. I am talking about MINDCONTROL PROGRAMS! How about it? Any government backgrounds or connections or even suspicious sources of money etc? This has bugged me for years. What do you know?

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Date: Fri, Sep 08, 2000 at 19:16:11 (GMT) From: Ex CIA Agent Email: None To: ExTex Subject: '1972' Message:

Stood around a stage in India with several of my fellow comrades some even had, sunglass’s, of course we wore our working uniform, suit’s. There were many Indian folks there, and when I went for a walk alone through the screaming throng and battling uniformed Indian WPC police, with their batons; they all parted and let me buy some of that soft guey round candies.

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Date: Thurs, Sep 07, 2000 at 02:21:24 (GMT) From: Scott T. Email: None To: ExTex Subject: A serious question. Message:

ET: So the CIA said, in effect: 'Let's find a kid who's father is a religious leader in India and get him over here so he can convince the anti-war movement that pressing their eyeballs with their thumb and forefinger until they see stars is incontrovertable proof that the kid, whose religious idol father just died and put him in charge, is a messiah. He has to be really cute, BTW, because these anti-war activists are saps for cute kids, and they'll clearly think that the pudgy little guy with slicked back hair is way cooler than Grace Slick, Frank Zappa, or Jim Morrison... not to mention Bob Dylan or Paul Butterfield or Rod Stewart with Jeff Beck, or Rod Stewart with Small Faces' on 'Ogden's Celebrated Nut-Gone Flake Tobacco,' in which 'The Journey of Happiness Stan' is a metaphor for the search for spiritual enlightenment and will be innocently subliminated to become the archetype for this contrived religious movement which will not morph into a dangerous cult that might assassinate a congressman or two, or put nerve gas on the NYC subway system.' Oookayright. Makes sense to me. --Scott

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Date: Thurs, Sep 07, 2000 at 04:19:39 (GMT) From: Selene Email: None To: Scott T. Subject: and a silly thanks!! Message:

What a great post. Usually my problem with conspiracy theories is that it gives so much credit to the conspirators. As if they could sit and plan so well ahead of time. The theories usually only look good after the fact. I have a good friend who lives in seclusion and refuses to use email or the net or link his computer up at all. He lives in seclusion. Hides from the electronic world. but he uses a phone. I don't know how that fits or how he justifies the phone. A necessary evil for him I guess. Anyway that was a welcome relief tonight. Thanks.

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Date: Thurs, Sep 07, 2000 at 18:14:02 (GMT) From: Nigel Email: fitzroy@liverpool.ac.uk To: Selene Subject: Sounds like Hank's neighbour... Message:

..in King of the Hill (the one in the red baseball cap). The one who says: 'There is no such thing as computer error. The computers are doing it on purpose!'

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Date: Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 18:57:20 (GMT) From: Joe Email: None To: ExTex Subject: Please. Message:

A thousands of potential revolutionaries (remember the times?) traded their radical politics and lifestyles for satsang, sercice to M and meditation. And then 'Blissed-out'! Out of sight! No more protests, no more demonstrations...I heard 'satsang' about 'loving Nixon and the American war machine' and it was GM who promised to bring 'peace on earth'. All we had to do was be devoted to him and he would do it all. Are you kidding? I was around then, and the premies were 'potential revolutionaries' about as much as the Young Republicans. Although there was a couple of people who were notable Vietnam War protestors before they became premies, like that idiot Rennie Davis (to see the degree of idiocy, just watch the LOTU video), the vast majority were just society drop-outs with little or no ambition to do much of anything. Hence, they were easy recruits for a cult. I have to say, though, I sure never heard any 'loving Nixon' satsang. Even as programmed as I was, that would have been difficult to hear. No, Maharaji wasn't about doing anything with the government. He was just out to get money, be worshipped, and live like a king, and he has been amazingly successful.

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Date: Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 15:20:15 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: ExTex Subject: Check under your foamie Message:

I almost said 'futon' until I remembered what we really slept on. You sound like a conspiracy buff. Am I right? Tell me, would you like this hypothesis to be true? Kind of exciting, isn't it?

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Date: Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 14:29:36 (GMT) From: Paul Email: None To: ExTex Subject: A serious question. Message:

I doubt it. I was around then, doing PR-including the millenium event. In reality, DLM was a tiny, insignificant group (not even a movement). Because we were true believers and our lives wrapped up in DLM, we had the distorted perception that something was really going on, e.g. M was going to bring peace to the world and we were part of it. I doubt DLM was big enough or important enough for the government to bother manipulating. Paul

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Date: Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 14:19:09 (GMT) From: gerry Email: glyng@techline.com To: ExTex Subject: I'll go there... Message:

I never thought about this. It's certainly woth entertaining. I've heard this in connection with People's Temple but I've never investigated it. Given what I do know about MK-Ultra and other government mind control projects I'd say it was possible, but not probable, but who knows? I've left my e-mail in case you'd like to talk about this.

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Date: Thurs, Sep 07, 2000 at 07:51:40 (GMT) From: ExTex Email: None To: gerry Subject: I'll go there... Message:

PS your e-mail didn't connect. It said 'unknown'.

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Date: Thurs, Sep 07, 2000 at 07:48:38 (GMT) From: ExTex Email: None To: gerry Subject: I'll go there... Message:

Thanks for a civil response. The others just wanted to wank-off with halfwit sarcasm. Something it seems that a lot of goobers seem to waste this forum with. I just posted in the hopes that if there is anything to this possibility MAYBE someone will remember something that would be of interest. It is a subject that has nagged me for a long time and my recently discovering the forum gave me the idea that this could be the one place to find some info. If there is any. In view of verifiable history of this mindcontrol program subject in general, it really isn't THAT fantastic of an idea. I sure saw PLENTY of pressure from 'satsang' at the time (from ashram/DLM people) that urged people to blow off their 'worldly mind filled' concerns about 'Nam and other political leanings. And even if it wasn't always stated up front....it did fulfill same. Coincidence? I don't know. Probably. But the 'history' back-in-India story never seemed that convincing to me, mind you I never went to India and never saw the 'thousands' of Indian premies.(?) I did notice a blatant fabrication in the 'Lord of The Universe' movie. Or it looked like one to me at the time I thought about it. I saw that film a zillion times and a few years later I saw the movie 'Gandi'. It started with actual film footage of Gandi's funeral and it sure looked like the EXACT SAME footage that was in the L of U film. But in that film it was suppose to be GM's adoring premies. (With shots of GM on an elephant inter-cut into the other footage!) And remember GM was just a little kid at the time...not the money grubbing adult that he is now. SOMEBODY was manipulating him AND us. The 'holy family'? Once again, thanks for your mature response. Let's see if anyone comes up with anything of interest.

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Date: Fri, Sep 08, 2000 at 00:28:11 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: ExTex Subject: Now THIS is a perfect example of what's wrong here Message:

In your original post, you pose a question which might be serious to you but which others, including myself, simply can't take seriously. Sorry, fella. That's life. So how you respond? With this: Thanks for a civil response. The others just wanted to wank-off with halfwit sarcasm. Well, you had civil the first time. Now I just feel like telling you to fuck off. But I won't. I'll stay civil. Did it ever occur to you that your 'serious question' is, rightly or wrongly, perceived by others as simply to out there to be taken seriously? Why, in that case, would it be uncivil for people to treat it as such? The more I post here the more I see how confused and given to dumb thinking premies were and are. Sometimes it's new age shit, sometimes it's conspiracy stuff but, one way or another, a bunch of exes have very, very questionable ideas. Like yours, for example. But people like you are never satisfied unless others take you seriously. whether you deserve it or not! And when you're not taken seriously you whine. Does any of this make sense? Any of it? How would you respond to the suggestion that possibly Maharaji and Bal Bhagwan Ji are really just playing a big, divine lila and it really is all just to test Maharaji's real devotees? Would it matter if the questioner prefaced the query by calling it a 'serious question'? No, of course not. It might be serious to him but what if you simply can't see it that way? What re you going to say to him? That you think it's a very legitimate question even when you don't? Is any of this making any sense? Can you see the problem? Or do you think that maybe I'm a CIA operative too?

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Date: Fri, Sep 08, 2000 at 02:36:14 (GMT) From: ExTex Email: None To: Jim Subject: Now THIS is a perfect example of what's wrong here Message:

Point taken. I guess I was being a little bit too sensitive. I agree that what may be serious to one is foolishness to others. I apologize to everyone. But some responses were just juvenile and I can make that call even if you do not. I don't care what you think of me. BUT...About the question that I posed...I never said that it was fact! All I want to know is if it clicked with anyone's experience now that they look back and examine it. And the notion that it all is a too fantastic 'conspiracy theory' doesn't wash with me because there is documented data on similar type operations/experiments. WHAT ARE YOU SAYING? THAT PREMIES WOULD NEVER HAVE BEEN CAUGHT IN SUCH A TRAP? HELL WE THOUGHT HE WAS GOD ALMIGHTY! Pretty fantastic! Would you ever have predicted that you would fall for such crap? That the Nixon era wasn't full of bizarre conspiracies? (Ever hear of G Gordon Liddy and what he was up to then?) But the QUESTION that SOMEBODY WAS CALLING THE SHOTS BESIDES A 12-13 YEAR OLD BOY IS SOMEHOW TOO FANTASTIC???? He was told what to do obviously or do you think that he did it all himself? If you do then he has still GOT YOU! Later on as he got older, and believed his own myth, things changed. Yes the 'Holy family' were obviously involved, my question is simpley did anyone notice anything else that was going on at the start of it all? And I for one do not believe in Lilas....and the CIA do have agents and conspire to do all kinds of stuff. That is something that always amazed me about premies...how they were SO SELF ABSORBED that they never took time to investigate anything further than their own breath. Are ex-premies the same? Do some investigating of documented facts before you start saying how things are too fantastic. GM/DLM were a conspiracy no matter who was behind it! That is UNDENIABLE!

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Date: Fri, Sep 08, 2000 at 16:07:38 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: ExTex Subject: Sorry, your reasoning's confused here Message:

The best -- the only way -- to properly deal with conspiracy theories is to carefully rank explanations for the many events, intermediate and ultimate, in order of likelihood. Not that one has to do this 'formally' or anything but that should be the thought process. If you don't do this, you run the risk of getting trapped by the allure of one possible explanation, perhaps because it's just so 'sexy', and favoring it at the expense of its stronger (i.e. more likely) fellow possibilities. Kind of like, you're the doorman at some popular night club. You let some beautiful girl jump the queue (sp?) just because, well, because she's so attractive. There are many, many more likely explanations for Maharaji being a master, coming to the west and all of that than the one you propose. REally, do we have to walk through them? You should be able to think about this simply enough. Think about all these factors: 1) The number of people necessary to put this 'plan' in motion. At least some of the key premies involved in bringing Maharaji to the west and advancing his 'mission' would have to be involved. Yet there's not a scintilla of evidence in that regard. 2) The historic context for Maharaji, i.e. the whole Indian, Hindu, Rhadsoami bullshit lineage trip. How far do you want to cast your net? Are you going to include Shri Hans in this? What about his predecessors, competitors, supporters and the like? Why single out Maharaji in this way? Again, not a drop of evidence. 3) The indirect and thus extremely ineffectual assistance DLM did serve the purposes to think it might have been targetted at. If the CIA or whoever -- MK ULtra or whatever -- would go to all that trouble to implement this byzantine deceit, you'd think it would have thrived a little better than it did, woudln't you? The truth is, this cult had one brief moment in the sun when people actually stopped and wondered just who could this young, fat kid be? I mena, at best. Most people either never heard or saw through it all immediately. Mind you, this was the early seventies, people did wear Nehru jackets and medallions and beads. It was all of that. But, still, whatever even possible prospective legitimacy this cult had pre Millenium was washed out entirely afterward. Is that the best that all these Men in Black could effect? Why? Not only is there no evidence about this, the speculation itself makes no sense. It suggests secret operatives that are both extreemly powerful and just the opposite, all at the same time. 4) Your analogy to the Nixon Whitehouse is absolutely unfit. That was dirty dealings for a political purpose in a political arena. Even then it was very unlikely, although it did happen. However, just because it happened doesn't mean that suddenly the break-in was not unlikely. It was and still would be. Consider the fact that we haven't, ever since then, assumed that presidential candidates break in to each other's headquarters. That still is not the norm (despite however alluring the prosppect is to conspiracy buffs). So the anology is terrible and is, in fact, terrible for a bunch of reasons I won't even bother to go into. Think about it. In short, your speculation's relaly only good for its entertainment value and I don't mean this offensively. Not to say that it's impossible, simply that there's no reason to treat it seriously. Thus, again, it can't properly hold up as a 'serious question'. It deserved the reaction it got. With all due respect....

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Date: Fri, Sep 08, 2000 at 16:09:31 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: fa Subject: God Dammit! Where's my fucking post? FA's? Message:

Lost another one, FA's. Any idea why this happens yet?

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Date: Fri, Sep 08, 2000 at 04:45:14 (GMT) From: Shroomananda Email: None To: ExTex Subject: Maybe God is behind the conspiracy of Maharaji! Message:

Hee, hee, hee...

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Date: Fri, Sep 08, 2000 at 05:19:49 (GMT) From: ExTex Email: None To: Shroomananda Subject: Maybe 'God' Is a Conspiracy! Har Har Message:

nt

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Date: Thurs, Sep 07, 2000 at 14:50:07 (GMT) From: ExTex Email: None To: ExTex Subject: My Mistake?. Message:

Actually I think that the name of that film was 'Who Is GM?' Sorry, it was late and I was tired. Also, it has been a long time...At any rate no 12-13 year old kid was calling the shots back then....UNLESS you believe he was somehow 'spiritually special' or a genius (which he obviously isn't).

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Date: Thurs, Sep 07, 2000 at 10:20:02 (GMT) From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: ExTex Subject: Who's been manipulating the young child? Message:

His family: definitely The inner circle of close devotees: definitely Some of the 1st western followers: definitely too. And don't forget Rawat got most of his education from US and Brit TV, cartoons, comics and movies. Re-read Bob Mishler's page and Sitaram's testimony amongst other documents. Many people around Rawat had their own hidden agendas, even today !!

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Date: Thurs, Sep 07, 2000 at 13:33:39 (GMT) From: Scott T. Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: Who's been manipulating the young child? Message:

JM: Now this is a conspiracy theory I can believe. --Scott

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Date: Thurs, Sep 07, 2000 at 15:12:58 (GMT) From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Scott T. Subject: Each one/them for his own purpose: no conspiracy! Message:

My only question is: how far that still goes on ? Gopies/mistresses manipulating him His relatives? His business associates? Who knows?

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Date: Thurs, Sep 07, 2000 at 17:27:13 (GMT) From: Selene Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: conspiracy or no conspiracy? Message:

I posted to Scott yesterday about some of the more extreme cases of conspiracy theory I've heard. They all came out of the woodwork before Y2K. I had a coworker tell me I was going to be shot in the streets during Y2K, by the government, for purposes of 'crowd control'. (I kicked him out of my office) But having said that, I do think this forum is manipulated and deliberately disrupted. I don't know by who or pretend to know. But obviously M is bothered by this place, and I was told he requested more writers for 'participation' a while back. I agree with you, there are some conspiracies that do seem real, now. There is a LOT of money at stake, that is enough right there to cause premies/people to rally around M if they have stocks or interest. My reaction was to that original post, it seemed a bit far out.

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Date: Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 09:08:39 (GMT) From: exJack Email: None To: TexMex Subject: A serious question. Message:

all I know for sure. Is that the CIAA follows my every move. I have numerous consorts who frequently escort the ladies to such verifications. Futhermore, and finally, the sense of personification is most alliterate, almost overly zealous, therefore, most, if not all, fellow worshipers are cognisant of the fact, that jacks r better than johns

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Date: Thurs, Sep 07, 2000 at 03:03:14 (GMT) From: ExTex Email: None To: All Subject: A serious question. Message:

Well the tongue in cheek half sarcastic answers were cute. But answered nothing. There were a lot of mindcontrol programs that were going on then and it isn't hard to find info on them if you do a little research. MK-Ultra and the FBI CoIntelpro were just two big ones. Know your history. The DLM/GM thing COULD have STARTED out as one of many programs and then been 'cut loose' after it served it's purpose or failed to. The Jim Jones people's Temple, without a doubt, has been established as having 'intelligence' connections. (Once again, do some research, don't take my word for it.) I am not saying that this is a fact, I am just wondering if anyone remembers anything that could substantiate this possibility. Scroll up and see my original question. Did any early PAM's have military intelligence or otherwise backgrounds? Any financial backing worth questioning? Large sums funneled through high up PAMS as 'donations'? And yes as fantastic as it may seem, there were a lot of radicals who became 'devotees'. I knew a bunch, myself. And stranger things have happened. And as far as the 'conspiracy buff' question....I won't dignify that with an answer other than to say Who is afraid to ask questions about this?

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Date: Thurs, Sep 07, 2000 at 20:19:43 (GMT) From: Scott T. Email: None To: ExTex Subject: A serious question. Message:

ET: Did any early PAM's have military intelligence or otherwise backgrounds? Any financial backing worth questioning? Large sums funneled through high up PAMS as 'donations'? And yes as fantastic as it may seem, there were a lot of radicals who became 'devotees'. I knew a bunch, myself. And stranger things have happened. I posted what I thought was a rather innocuous response to this, concerning the propensity of like minded people to be fooled by closely related brands of BS, as well as a reference to Marshall's sado/masocistic recipe for yogurt and cranberries... (Anyone recall Gordon Liddy's evil twin, Marshall?). But the post seems to have been moderated out, so thought I'd give it another shot. Apparently someone thinks the anti-war movement was above BS. And I *do* have it on reliable authority that Daniel Ellsberg was a hippie cowboy. Really. Wasn't he from Santa Monica, for heaven sake? And we all know who else lived in Santa Monica, don't we? --Scott 'trying to get his conspiracy theories in a row' T.

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Date: Fri, Sep 08, 2000 at 04:06:42 (GMT) From: ExTex Email: None To: ALL Subject: Do Some Homework... Message:

before you just toss off all possibilities. I just wanted to see what anyone might have seen/heard/thought. Do some searching on the general subject and you will find juicey tid-bits like this: Jones Town and mind control- Congressman Ryan probably suspected that Jonestown was a front for sinister covert activity. In 1980, Ryan aide Joseph Holsinger received a paper entitled 'The Penal Colony,' which explained that CIA MKULTRA operations did not terminate in 1973, as officially proclaimed, but instead continued in public hospitals, prisons, and religious cults (CAN YOU NAME ANY RELIGIOUS CULTS YOU WERE INVOLVED IN?-ExTex) which were used as fronts. Holsinger later stated at a San Francisco psychology forum on Jonestown that he believed the CIA worked with Jones to perform medical and mind control experiments at People's Temple.

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Date: Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 06:44:27 (GMT) From: Hal Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Those posts below from Yves Message:

Dear Yves, The problem I have is that when I come to check out what's happening on the forum since I was last here some of the posts that I want to respond to may have gone into the inactive files and as you know one can't post on inactive. Please consider that you're using a lot of space when you post as you've done down there below. Thanks Hal

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Date: Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 13:26:00 (GMT) From: Yves Email: None To: Hal Subject: You took two posts Message:

Was it worthed?

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Date: Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 06:46:34 (GMT) From: Hal Email: None To: Hal Subject: Sorry should say Yves and others nt Message:

gdsg

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Date: Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 12:37:17 (GMT) From: Yves Email: None To: Hal Subject: Must I remain quiet for more profound posts... Message:

Must I remain quiet for more profound posts to remain posted? What's the rule (again) here? I think I'll go for a walk.

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Date: Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 15:06:11 (GMT) From: Hal Email: None To: Yves Subject: Thanks for your consideration Message:

Maybe what I requested politely is beyond you to consider. That's all I can do is request politely and it's for you to decide. hal

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Date: Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 15:26:54 (GMT) From: Yves Email: None To: Hal Subject: Policy and politeness aside, what do you expect? Message:

I don't get your point. I think the problem doesn't come from the fact I posted many times, which some seem to find entretaining. I didn't do it to upset anyone, it is just that my mind produces two liners. Some of them, I find very funny and you don't. The problem comes from the software this site uses. In some other forums, the first thread is the last one to have been posted into. What do you expect? For me to limit my participation to, say 10 posts a day? Ask for it. My request would be to use another algorithm or software in this forum. I am sorry you were offended. Folks often are with me and clarifying things is my full time job. You shouldn't be. I made one thing perfetly clear with friends. If I happen to say something which could be interpreted two ways and one of them proves offensive, let's agree I meant the other one.

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Date: Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 18:13:24 (GMT) From: cq Email: None To: Yves Subject: The original point is a VERY valid one Message:

Yves, you could at least consider the fact that I would like to respond to posts that Gerry and Jim made only yesterday - but are now (thanks partially to your waste of Forum thread-space) in the inactive index. So I'll start a new thread to respond to them. Does it suit your purpose to try and prevent us from communicating? I hope not.

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Date: Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 15:37:50 (GMT) From: Hal Email: None To: Yves Subject: I explained very simply that Message:

when I come on line in the morning and there are posts which I may like to respond to they have gone inactive and I'm not able to correspond with the people concerned without the difficulty of bringing the topic back up to the top. that's all. I'm in no way criticising the content of your posts or you personally. Of course posts go inactive fairly fast sometimes anyway if there are lots of posters but your method really speeds that process up considerably. Just a point for your consideration that's all. I don't want to spoil your fun and you have a lot of humour but maybe there's another format to do it in? No offence intended Hal

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Date: Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 15:55:11 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: Hal Subject: Yves exposed Message:

Here's what I can tell you. Yves was one of the ex's Laurie and I saw in eastern Canada last month. I knew him years ago in the ashram and had corresponded a bit with him, mainly via email, after he first stumbled upon the website a year or so ago. Yves joined us and a few friends for a drink, then dinner in Montreal's lovely Plateau district. (If you're looking for European-style funky, that has to be North America's best offer). Then we went out, strolled around for a bit, went to some bar then finally back to my friend, Nate's place where we were staying. Yves was entirely cool, pleasant, witty and just generally interested in life and its packaging. He was a delight to hang out with. In short, though I hadn't seen him for at least 22 years I could tell that the time had been good to him. Believe it or not -- sorry, Yves, but what do you expect? -- he seemed nicely mature. So why does he post like he does? Beats me. He always had a bit of a quirky sense of humour (and that's taking into account the fact that he is, after all, French). Some have said I'm not at all in person what I'm like here. Frankly, I don't think that's true. But in Yves' case I know it's true. Well, kind of. I mean it is and it isn't. You know? But one thing I'm sure of is that Yves actually cares quite a bit in all the right ways about this 'thing' and the people involved. But, like I say, he's French... or something .... (I don't know. Was that an 'I' statement?)

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Date: Thurs, Sep 07, 2000 at 04:05:00 (GMT) From: Stonor Email: None To: Jim Subject: No Jim, it's racist, but you know that. NT Message:

nt

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Date: Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 16:16:08 (GMT) From: gerry Email: None To: Jim Subject: I knew it... Message:

that he was someone you met back east. Or at least I thought that was it. Otherwise I think you would probably be less tolerant of Yves' spam than you are. Personally I think he has become a pain in the ass. But then I'm sure many would say the same about me. Or you for that matter. But I agree with what Yves says about the format. I've seen better formats which keep posts in a more logical order. But it ain't my call and basically I'm satisfied with things as they are. In the mean time, Yves is fucking things up, IMO.

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Date: Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 13:00:27 (GMT) From: Salam Email: None To: Yves Subject: Good point..nt Message:

nt

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Date: Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 03:54:27 (GMT) From: sai billda Email: None To: Everyone Subject: mushroom food? Message:

Maybe we can get a celebrity death match between avatars if we could keep the devotees out of the ring. It aint just the rawat brothers that are duking it out for ultimate ruler. The eastern message of *evolve your way to higher levels* breeds a small army of self proclaimed godheads. (as long as you arent in one of the lower castes for christs sake! I mean, know your place!) the rawat family let us know in the millenium brochure that they were in fact from the BRAHMIN caste. (well DUH). 'do not allow doubt to distract you, if you will only install in the altar of your heart steady faith in my divinity, you can win a vision of my reality.'sai baba this guy is still in his 1979 I REALLY AM THE GOD ALMIGHTY (rawat) phase. Although, pesky numerous claims of child abuse are starting to add to the dilemma of his devotees. Maybe shroom could lend them a word of support? faith is one of those things that needs no head involvement! all heart. leave your head at the door! With your shoes, your wallet, and your life:)

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Date: Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 13:21:10 (GMT) From: Yves Email: None To: sai billda Subject: I go for a goddess who gets cranky once a month Message:

That may account for hurricanes. Rawat is so boring

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Date: Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 10:58:32 (GMT) From: Mahatma Dave Anand Ji Email: sirdavid12@hotmail.com To: sai billda Subject: mushroom food? Message:

I think we'll need to organise it into heats, semi finals and then one glorious fight to the death. There's quite a few contenders for the ultimate Godhead prize. Click here to see all current contenders I'm opening up a book and lay odds of 20-1 Bubba Free John; 2-1 Satpal; 50-1 his little brother but an odds on chance for the Sai Baba grow-your-own-Godhead of 1-9. Mother Mataji will be disqualified if she electricutes any of the contestants.

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Date: Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 11:22:22 (GMT) From: Salam Email: None To: Mahatma Dave Anand Ji Subject: Pitty to Gumji look alike..nt Message:

nt

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Date: Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 11:23:37 (GMT) From: Salam Email: None To: Salam Subject: That should read : no Gumji..nt Message:

nt

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Date: Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 11:39:44 (GMT) From: Sir Dave Email: None To: Salam Subject: Well, we've got one lookalike Message:

Although I reckon I could get a bigger pic to put on the Incarnations page. Click here to see Maharaji's double and see how thr prophesy is all coming true.

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Date: Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 12:45:26 (GMT) From: Salam Email: None To: Sir Dave Subject: You got to be confused and deluded. Message:

Really David, you should look at all the facts: Hello, my name is Humpty Dumty. I call myself Guru Maharaj Ji or the Lord of the Universe but I've decided to stop calling myself that and pretend I never made such claims.

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Date: Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 01:07:37 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Bullies or Hot House Flowers? Message:

I know someone's going to say this is a false dichotomy but right now it's looking pretty damned good to me. (Was that an 'I' statement?). Below (I won't bother pointing it out. Who cares?), we've got Stonor calling me a bully. She hopes I'll find another teacher who can really work with me. She's had enough of bullies, yes she has. But, to my mind, those who complain of 'bullying' here are really just hot house flowers. They want to carpet the world so they can run around everywhere with their shoes off. You know, nicey-nicey, blah, blah, blah. The fact is, premies like Shroom are assholes. Anyone who deals with them for any length of time soon realize that. Sure, Katie might find a way to love them all but that's her problem. It sure isn't mine (was that an 'I' statement?) This is a very jarring crossroads for a lot of people. Here, the cult member meets his future liberated self (hopefully); while the ex gets a chance to wrestle with the ghosts of Hans Jayanti past. The skeptic takes on the believer and vice versa. And why not? But let's remember, there are many people of these various persuasions who don't and never will respect the opposing views they confront. And know what? That's just fine! (in my humblest opinion, of course). The way I see it, if someone who holds an opinion which I find genuinely ridiculous, I'm 'losing' the argument if they they I somehow respect their opinion, notwithstanding that I don't share it. There's room for respectful differences of opinion but they're not a given. And, like I say, they're not the least bit desirable in some relevant areas here. That's what I think anyway.

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Date: Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 16:57:05 (GMT) From: Gail Email: None To: Jim Subject: Hey, Jim--Sorry I missed you! nt Message:

nt

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Date: Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 04:29:18 (GMT) From: G Email: None To: Jim Subject: No Message:

That isn't even a false dichotomy because the term 'hot house flowers' is grossly inaccurate and so was your characterization of those you labeled with this strange term.

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Date: Thurs, Sep 07, 2000 at 00:06:45 (GMT) From: Scott T. Email: None To: G Subject: You too can be simple, with a little practice. Message:

G: Anover simplification--The H.D. Theory of Presidential Politics: Boomers feel warm and cozy about the image of Howdy Doody, so the primary requirement for becoming President of the US is to resemble the becoming Mr. Doody more than one's opponent. (Soon to be superceded by the M.R. Theory of Presidential Politics. Wouldja be mine?) As for running around barefoot, that sounds like New Zealand doesn't it? I prefer a long hard ride over open rolling terrain... and only rarely have a yen to be pelted with rocks. --Scott 'From the Peanut Gallery' T. Everywhere is freaks and hairies Dykes and fairies tell me where is sanity? Tax the rich, feed the poor 'til there are no rich no more. I'd love to change the world But I don't know what to do So I'll leave it up to yoo-hoo-hoo. Take it

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Date: Thurs, Sep 07, 2000 at 02:09:46 (GMT) From: Shroomananda Email: None To: Scott T. Subject: Alvin Lee rocks! (And so does Pink Floyd) NT Message:

NT

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Date: Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 15:03:44 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: G Subject: Yes Message:

No, G, you're wrong. 'Again', I might add. You're wrong again. It IS a false dichotomy because it ignores other reasonable explanations. You might not see any but I do. So there. And as to whether 'hot house flower' is an apt description of people who keep crying 'bully' here, well I think it's a perfect, albeit somewhat abusive, term. It implies hypersensitivity, doesn't it? Sounds good to me.

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Date: Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 20:48:04 (GMT) From: bla bla bla bla bla Email: None To: Jim Subject: How would you describe hyposensitivity? Message:

Weeds? With stickery thistles and thorns to hurt the feet of all those running around barefooted. And you'll laugh while they bleed! Or how about the triffids...remember those alien plants they came to kill humanity.

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Date: Thurs, Sep 07, 2000 at 01:11:50 (GMT) From: Sir Dave Email: None To: bla bla bla bla bla Subject: How would you describe hyposensitivity? Message:

Actually, hyposensitivity would be the name of the state of being insensitive.

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Date: Thurs, Sep 07, 2000 at 07:22:41 (GMT) From: yes Email: None To: Sir Dave Subject: exactly what I meant nt Message:

nt

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Date: Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 21:19:05 (GMT) From: hoo Email: None To: bla bla bla bla bla Subject: pests Message:

mosquitos who think they're wolves ... swarming around with that zzzzzzzzzz sound and biting and sucking a little blood ... an irritation ... an annoyance ... then complain when people complain

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Date: Thurs, Sep 07, 2000 at 20:06:13 (GMT) From: cq Email: None To: hoo Subject: hoo? not an ex-sannyasin are you? (on 2nd thought) Message:

Just reminded me of the dynamic meditation we used to do. 'Hoo, hoo, hoo, hoo' while knocking your spine out of kilter by jumping up and down on the heels of your feet. Hoo! indeed. (I prefer Ha!) I'd like to have seen Bhagwan put a DVD of it out (with him demonstrating). Ain't all Gurus bastards? (or is it just the ones I've been introduced to?)

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Date: Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 18:17:03 (GMT) From: G Email: None To: Jim Subject: grouping people Message:

No, G, you're wrong. 'Again', I might add. You're wrong again. Stop beating your chest. I read 'false dichotomy' to mean that your classification of some forum participants into two opposed types of people ('bullies' and 'hot house flowers') was false because there are other types. I meant that it was not even that because I don't accept the term 'hot house flower' or its implication. If I did and thought it applied in some cases, then I would consider it a false dichotomy because people don't fit neatly into labels. Most people don't like to be sworn at, to have their words twisted, or to be insulted in a petty manner. Complaining about such behaviour is not being hypersensitive. I'm not saying that I've never done any of this, occasionally I have. Also, confronting peoples' beliefs is not the main issue here. Of course when premies post here their beliefs are going to be confronted. I never complained about that.

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Date: Thurs, Sep 07, 2000 at 00:20:25 (GMT) From: Scott T. Email: None To: G Subject: grouping people Message:

G: Most people don't like to be sworn at, to have their words twisted, or to be insulted in a petty manner. Complaining about such behaviour is not being hypersensitive. I just don't see how you can possibly have the audacity to speak this plainly. I'd have at least tried to rhyme 'hypersensitive.' Besides which, anyone who opts for the Canadian spelling of 'behavior,' just because he's speaking with a Canadian, is clearly too sensitive for his own good. --Scott

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Date: Thurs, Sep 07, 2000 at 03:30:50 (GMT) From: G Email: None To: Scott T. Subject: behaviour vs behavior Message:

Besides which, anyone who opts for the Canadian spelling of 'behavior,' just because he's speaking with a Canadian, is clearly too sensitive for his own good. Are you trying to give me nightmares? The thought that I would alter my spelling because I'm writing to Jim is too horrible to bear. That wasn't intentional. At least I don't think it was. Am I in denial? The horror.

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Date: Thurs, Sep 07, 2000 at 01:54:06 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: Scott T. Subject: grouping people Message:

Truer words were never said. But, don't forget, most people don't like stuffy pomposity either. So what can you do?

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Date: Thurs, Sep 07, 2000 at 04:06:36 (GMT) From: Scott T. Email: None To: Jim Subject: grading people Message:

Truer words were never said. But, don't forget, most people don't like stuffy pomposity either. So what can you do? That explains why so few communists ever read Marx. But I'm simultaneously troubled and elated by the fact that some people *do* apparently like the densely byzantine disclipline of academic papers and treatises, and will pay good money to have someone practice it. Reason being: knowing how to construct, report and evaluate something like a field experiment that simultaneously randomizes selection, assignment, and has a large 'n' might get you to the bottom of something that holds more than a little interest for numerous someones caught in one sort of serious bind or other. Then there's the insignificant possibility that some group may or may not have wrong-headed notions about which way their ass is actually pointing, and are more inclined to lynch than reward the bearer of the news that they may not. People don't much like hard work, sobriety, or delayed gratification either, unless they're in the RCMP. So, what can you do? Seems to me you either get paid, or light your farts: sound and fury that signifies less than nothing. I guess you could forego the money if you were sincere enough, but I'm taking pills for that. I never knew there was an all-black Bicycle Corps stationed in Missoula, Montana at the end of the 19th Century. (This was way before mountain bikes, when rims were made of wood that came apart in the rain.) Don't miss the last two episodes of 'Australia: Beyond the Fatal Shore' Thursday night at 9PM on PBS. There'll be a test that'll count 30% of your grade. --Scott

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Date: Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 18:40:32 (GMT) From: cq Email: None To: G Subject: stereotyping people Message:

I don't know about you, G, but I'm beginning to picture Jim as some kind of adolescent Jerry Lewis-type character - knee-jerk reactions and all. Strange too how he comes out with guns blazing when there's only an inkling of a difference of opinion. Maybe he's just a kind of guy who needs to make sure that his point of view is seen as being the 'right' one. In his own eyes at least. Personally I like to consider both sides before deciding one way or another on an issue.

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Date: Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 17:42:43 (GMT) From: Salam Email: None To: Jim and G Subject: Yes or no make up your minds. Message:

I have read Jim's post several times, mainly because I did not understand what the word dichotomy was. My second problem is what is(was) the false part in it and my third problem is the term 'hot house flower'. Why can not I find this post offensive and bullying? Jim has made an observation, regarding those that cry murder, and he used his own words to describe them as 'hot house flower', I would have said, 'chicken'. I may not agree with Jim's opinion, but I think he is very clear on what he is about. Shrooms are a pain the ass and they should be treated accordingly. Perhaps not all premies are Shrooms but F5 will never tell us. It is a public forum with the aim of exposing GM, fights do break out and they are healthy, it's natural and contribute to our understanding. That ofcourse does not give Jim the right to put anyone down. But I do believe that if one has an opinion and he/she voice it then that person should face the consequences. To shy and hide under a rock because of a harsh reply does classify that person as 'hot house flower/chicken'. If people believe that there is a need for a place for discussions between premies and exes in a less explosive environment then it is not that hard to design a home site on the web to host such a forum. Why does everyone ask FA to place links here? Now that is inconsiderate Imo. So there, for both of you.

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Date: Thurs, Sep 07, 2000 at 21:49:34 (GMT) From: Selene Email: None To: Salam Subject: what the heck IS a hot house flower anyway? Message:

I never heard that expression - does it mean semone who is quick to inflame? I don't get it. selene - illiterate deprived childhood

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Date: Thurs, Sep 07, 2000 at 22:27:09 (GMT) From: Scott T. Email: None To: Selene Subject: what the heck IS a hot house flower anyway? Message:

Selene: 'Hothouse' is Canadian for 'greenhouse.' In other words, it's a flower that will only grow in a controlled environment. --Scott (Actually, I made that up about 'Canadian,' but the two *are* synonyms.)

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Date: Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 03:21:55 (GMT) From: Nigel Email: fitzroy@liverpool.ac.uk To: Jim Subject: forum manners as forum discussion... Message:

Jim, I basically agree with you on most points (welcome back, by the way) but have to say I'm getting so sick of these threads - justified or otherwise - which seem to be no more than rehashes of how exes should or shouldn't behave on the forum. I find them way more irriatating than the posts which are claimed to constitute 'bullying' or 'abuse' in the first place - and just another distraction to the main M-related tasks in hand... Both terms (bullying and abuse) are way over the top, in my opinion. At least in relation to their non-cyber counterparts. To me it's ultimately just shadow-boxing in a fairly safe environment: I may be wrong but I don't know of anyone in three-plus years since the forum's been going who has been harrassed or intimidated in real life as a result of a conflict of opinions happening here, even if people do feel temporarily hurt by the chance remark. And I have sympathised both with exes who have felt bullied and others accused of bullying - depending on the people involved (especially how well they already know each other) and the context (was the person crying 'foul' just evading a probing question..?) But I get tired of people complaining about 'bullying', and also of others complaining about being called 'bully'. In each case the people complaining seem to stick around for some more, don't they? And often it is no more than choice of words. Calling a person 'idiot', say, might seem unnecessarily offensive to many, but saying 'that is an idiotic argument (IMO)' implies much the same thing. I normally use the second style of expression and escape the censures of folk proposing wall-to-wall courtesy, but not always... (I've been called a 'sociopath' and worse for things I have written here, but since I had zero respect for the premies in question it never got to me.) But, anyway, to rewrite the forum guidelines to define acceptable forms of words would be nigh-impossible, surely... Would both of the above phrasings of the same sentiment be unacceptable, neither of them unacceptable, or just the one..? The fact is, apart from, maybe a central core of a dozen long-termers, the forum population is forever shifting. Most exes come and go. Check the archives from twelve months back and then from another twelve months back. If something were agreed today among everybody present on how 'we' should conduct ourselves on-line, next years' posters will neither know about nor care to honour that agreement. They'll probably just start the whole flaming debate over again, and rehash the same issues (yawn...) I have always said that to change the nature of the forum, you'd have to change human nature itself - and that isn't going to happen - 'cause all life is here. More diversity and individuality than we ever knew in the cult. As you've probably guessed, this post wasn't really aimed at you, Jim, but more at the whole business of talking about the forum, rather than just talking on it. I'd rather see less of the former and more of the latter. And even this (my) post is yet another of the kind I hate most, so I'll shut up now! PS: Fuck off and die, everybody!!!!!

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Date: Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 04:04:48 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: Nigel Subject: Guess what? We beat city hall tonight! Message:

Laurie and I just got back from a city council meeting where we beat the neighbours in a dirty parking situation. (We were clean, they wre dirty). So I'm happy. Now, what were we talking about? Hey, Nige, when you coming over?

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Date: Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 04:10:07 (GMT) From: Michael Email: None To: Jim Subject: Guess what? We beat city hall tonight! Message:

Good for you, I think it's great that you won. Hey, am I evil for dissing Pink Floyd? And have the X-flies been able to book another Bar Mitzvah/Wedding gig in Panamá? It would be fun to see you; I'd even take you to see where I preach dogmatic trinitarian doctrine to backward Central Americans!

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Date: Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 04:20:49 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: Michael Subject: Oh yeah, I forgot Message:

Pink Floyd sucks.

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Date: Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 04:13:19 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: Michael Subject: Do we have to wear Tilley hats? Message:

Thanks, Michael While we don't do bar mitzvahs (too religious) we will perfom at secular partnering ceremonies. Actually, right now, we're looking for a new drummer. Scottie moved to Vancouver. He should definitely be blocked.

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Date: Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 04:16:09 (GMT) From: Michael Email: None To: Jim Subject: Did you bully him? Message:

I was always cruel to the drummers in A Cruel Hoax. And no, we don't have to wear Tilley hats, but we may have to wear those Panamanian hats and those white shirts.

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Date: Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 04:19:12 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: Michael Subject: Yes and no Message:

We forced him to play music in public with peopel his parents' age. Is that abuse? But we didn't put rhopynal (sp?) in his girlfriend's drink and have our way with her. So, I dunno. What do you think? Is that abuse? Is this an 'I' Statement?

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Date: Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 04:25:09 (GMT) From: Michael Email: None To: Jim Subject: Mostly yes Message:

Well, we were always strong believers in paying the drummer less, especially since you can now buy small machines to do the job. So, I think that IF you shared your disappointment with him, especially regarding his moving (ESPECIALLY if he could keep time), then I think that you didn't abuse him, but bonded with him in a very wonderful, tender, and meaningful manner (that was a third person statement). I must retire now as I must preach Trinitarian doctrine at 7:30 AM, which means I must rise at 5:30 so that I may drive behind people who are reluctant to make right hand turns at speeds exceeding 5 KM per hour. Such is the joy of driving in Panamá (bite me, Shroom; I can make such statements).

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Date: Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 05:50:15 (GMT) From: Shroomananda Email: None To: Michael Subject: Bite me, Shroom? From a preacher? My goodness! Message:

Do you use such language in your lectures?

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Date: Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 15:08:19 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: Shroomananda Subject: And what kind of language do you think M favors? Message:

Michael just has a relationship with God going (real or otherwise -- sorry, Padre). But Maharaji actually is God. Think he's ever said anything stronger than 'heck' or maybe 'darn'? You know, in that letter from his wife, Marolyn, she described non-practising premies as 'assholes'. So maybe he picked some of that shit up from her. What do you think?

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Date: Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 18:29:03 (GMT) From: cq Email: None To: Jim Subject: I wondered what this conversation had to do with Message:

'anything and everything about Maharaji'. My proposal of giving the Forum and ex-premie.org their own separate identity still seem absurd to you, Jim? If so, then perhaps you could begin to consider the benefits that might result from a split. After all, what DOES ex-premie.org exist for? Simply to confirm the attitudes of exes, or to present an effective counter to the Maha's continuing campaign? or what? Let's talk about this.

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Date: Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 03:32:10 (GMT) From: Joe Email: None To: Nigel Subject: I agree completely, Nigel.... Message:

These threads are utterly pointless and do nothing but get the forum off-subject. By the way, isn't it like four fucking o'clock in the morning where you are???

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Date: Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 20:58:56 (GMT) From: JohnT Email: None To: Joe Subject: I also agree with Nigel.... Message:

.... and I'm biting my tongue so that I don't immediately do what I'm trying to deprecate! I really do need to get out of here and do some work as it doesn't look as if I've managed to persuade Nigel to do it for me (sigh). Respect to ex-premies.

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Date: Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 03:29:43 (GMT) From: Elan Vital Email: None To: Nigel Subject: We never have these problems on OUR websites! Message:

We really don't. Neither does Enjoyinglife.org. Nor does Maharaji's extremely beautiful and creative website. We just don't see any disagreements whatsoever on those websites, which is due to the extreme synchronization that the experience of Knowledge provides.

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Date: Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 04:07:32 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: Elan Vital Subject: You are so funny. Too bad you should be blocked Message:

EV, you're obviously violating one of the cardinal rules of modern western civilization (fuck the east), manely posting under more than one name. So, reluctantly, I must ask you to block yourself. Or get someone to block you. Or something. But you are SO funny, man! Thanks for the laughs

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Date: Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 01:18:33 (GMT) From: Shroomananda Email: None To: Jim Subject: Are bullies assholes, Jim? Or just us premies? Message:

I don't mind your 'bullying', Jim. I think it is very informative for those of us who aren't. We learn from it. I can take all your heat. You haven't been involved with Maharaji for almost 20 years, right? Yet you are still passionate to the point of being called a bully. Keep it coming, pal! You are an excellent example for the 'ex' premies. Maharaji doesn't pull any punches or sugar coat things and you shouldn't either. If Stonor can't take it, she should get out of the 'hot house'. Right?

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Date: Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 03:26:12 (GMT) From: Rob Email: None To: Shroomananda Subject: What, am I worse than Jim? I'm flattered!! Message:

So you can take all of Jim's bullying 'heat' and still ask for more, yet you've bailed on me before I even got warmed up? How come? Now shroom, now is the time to really take a step back and look at what is going on in your head. Look at what it is about my questioning which has really confronted you. I don't buy the angle that you are simply bored with it. No, its more than that, because you've demonstrated an impressive capacity for posting volumes here. Could it be that you have never before really questioned how you view maharaji? Is it possible that in trying to formulate an answer to my short question to you below, that you were actually faced with nothing more substantial in your mind than 18 years of unexplored conceptualisation? Or are you simply frustrated that I am unswayed by your propogandist bullshit, and come across as being actually quite clear in my perception of the status quo. Does it rile you perhaps, that I have THAT experience without mystical intervention by your 'master'? That's a lot of guesses on my part, but Ihave a feeling that at least one of them has hit the mark. Well I'll leave it up to Jim to 'keep it coming', if you insist on ignoring me from now on.

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Date: Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 05:53:21 (GMT) From: Shroomananda Email: None To: Rob Subject: Actually, I'm just tired of your verbosity. I get Message:

a headache when I read your posts. If you want a response, just one or two questions at a time. I'm just a simple premie, after all.

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Date: Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 20:46:58 (GMT) From: Rob Email: None To: Shroomananda Subject: Oh sorry, do I give you a migraine? Message:

Well we can't have that, can we. OK, simple questions, one at a time. Do you believe that maharaji affects/influences your experience of meditation in any way, spiritual, ethereal or otherwise? (Putting aside 'verbal inspiriation for now). Simple enough? Well take a Tylenol and give it a go:)

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Date: Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 23:37:48 (GMT) From: Shroomananda Email: None To: Rob Subject: Yes, he does, Rob. When I listen to him, I'm Message:

inspired. When I practice after his discourse, I seem more at peace. Does he provide the experience I get in meditation? Well, he talks about the triangle of master, student and Knowledge but the actual experience is provided by Knowledge and my own devotion and effort. He was in South America when I received Knowledge. I really felt that he was in that room that day. Not physically, of course, but what happened in that room was a result of him in some way. Anyway, that's how I felt.

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Date: Thurs, Sep 07, 2000 at 06:17:03 (GMT) From: Rob Email: None To: Shroomananda Subject: I don't know how much simpler I could put that.. Message:

..shroomie baby, but still you managed to not answer it!! See what I'm getting at is trying to ascertain how much you have really explored your own inner experiences, and how much is simply reiteration of maharaji. Man, I used to have lengthy arguments with people in which my reposts were entirely constructed from bits and pieces of what maharaji had said, NOT what I had discovered for myself. So above, when I asked you in simple, non-threatening terms, whether you considered maharaji somehow could trasmit his powers through the ethers and affect your inner experience, you made it clear that you either had never had to question this about yourself, or were reluctant to share what you really feel. Once more, your answer was formed around what you think you ought to say, or what would show maharaji up in the best light, and not, I suspect, the truth. I specifically tried to exclude the verbal inspiration bit, because all that does is stimulate your imagination, or egg you on to try or whatever. You know perfectly well what I was getting at, but the only glimpse we got was that you 'felt he was in the room, somehow'. So.....does he? Are your meditation experiences a litmus test of how 'pleased' you imagine maharaji to be with you at that given moment? Does he 'bestow' the experience on you, even sometimes? There is nothing to be afraid of by facing these questions and bringing your feelings out into the open. After all, if this whole thing is real, it can withstand a bit of sincere prodding, can't it?

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Date: Thurs, Sep 07, 2000 at 07:05:08 (GMT) From: Shroomananda Email: None To: Rob Subject: Look, Rob. I have no idea what you are trying to Message:

accomplish here. It really is very simple. I walked into that Knowledge session because I wanted to know something. I found something. I can label it, define it, analyze it, dissect it, put it in a box, or whatever. Or I can enjoy it. This is your agenda. Whether Maharaji was providing the experience or what I think about him is irrelevant. I enjoy Knowledge. I enjoy listening to Maharaji. I could care less who owns the techniques. I could care less who Maharaji is. I could care less what his lifestyle is. I was looking for something and I found it. You got something better? I'll try it. But until then, I'll continue to listen to him and practice Knowledge because it is enjoyable for me to do so. You want to go save the whales? Go for it. You want to try and convince people not to receive Knowledge or stop practicing it or stop listening to him? Go for it. Got it?

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Date: Fri, Sep 08, 2000 at 00:59:59 (GMT) From: Rob Email: None To: Shroomananda Subject: Let me spell it out for you then. Message:

Whether Maharaji was providing the experience or what I think about him is irrelevant. I could care less who owns the techniques. I could care less who Maharaji is. You honestly expect us to believe these statements represent your true feelings, after the pages upon pages of happy clapper crap we've been subjected to? THIS IS WHAT I AM GETTING AT SHROOM!!! You don't say what you really think or feel, you tailor your answers to suit the YOUR agenda. One minute, maharaji is 'someone special, someone who knows something', next minute you could care less about him. You take great pains to emphasise that it is *his* knowledge, now you don't care who's it is. Shallow, shallow, shallow. Do you honestly think people can't see through this nonesense? I repeat, everything you say here is tailored to create the most favorable impression of maharaji possible. You are a liar, a propogandist, a spin doctor and worst of all, you have no clue about how wrong you are. Sad. Yes, I have a problem with you. Yes, I have an agenda where you are concerned. Stick around, bud, and see just how tenacious I can be.

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Date: Fri, Sep 08, 2000 at 05:03:06 (GMT) From: Shroomananda Email: None To: Rob Subject: Whether I think he's God, a Master, someone Message:

special, a con artist, a thief, a womanizer, a drunk, a meditation teacher, etc. DOESN'T MATTER! Why am I shallow for saying this? Knowledge works. I love to listen to him. If I believe he is special, that's MY OPINION. I'm expressing MY OPINION which is based upon MY EXPERIENCE. For me, it's true. If you want to believe differently, then so be it. Why do I have to prove this? Each person is free to make up their own mind. Why can't I say that I feel he is a special person and at the same time say that it doesn't matter what I feel about him one way or the other. If I can't stand the guy, but I love to listen to him am I going to deny my enjoyment because I can't stand him? That's what I'm getting at. It all boils down to the experience of peace, joy, etc., that I feel by listening to him and practicing his Knowledge. Yes, I think he is special. If you think I'm shallow for feeling that then so be it. IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT I FEEL ABOUT HIM IF I ENJOY HIS KNOWLEDGE AND LISTENING TO HIM. Look, I'm not interested in debating about this. Make your comments and move along. I'm sure you've got better things to do than calling me shallow. I am what I am. You don't know me. A liar, propagandist, spin doctor and clueless? Sorry, I don't see it. You've got a chip on your shoulder, pal. It's all about peace, love and understanding, isn't it?

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Date: Thurs, Sep 07, 2000 at 15:40:59 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: Shroomananda Subject: Shroo expresses the perfect premie credo Message:

Shroom aspires to be a real ignoramus. He don't wanna know nuthin' 'bout his gooroo, whad id is and whad id ain't. Feel good.... yuh, yuh, yuh ..... You're a living insult to human intelligence, Shroom.

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Date: Thurs, Sep 07, 2000 at 21:09:49 (GMT) From: Shroomananda Email: None To: Jim Subject: Perfect premie credo, Jim? Did you catch the Message:

part where I said, 'You got something better? I'll try it.' Well, do you? If Maharaji has committed crimes, arrest him! You know a lot of cops and DA's, right? Give them some evidence and let them go to work. Otherwise, shut the fuck up! Insulting me is not going to make me become an 'ex' premie, Jim. If you have no alternative as good or better than Knowledge and listening to Maharaji, then why is my intelligence in question? I do enjoy Knowledge. I do enjoy listening to him. You can sling arrows and call Maharaji a con artist, thief or whatever you want but his Knowledge works for me. I love to listen to him. What's your problem?

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Date: Fri, Sep 08, 2000 at 01:34:30 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: Shroomananda Subject: Yes, I've got something better Message:

How about the truth for a change, Shroom? Hoe about the truth of this stupid little cult? Forget about bargaining for some replacement fix. Try just shooting for some honesty. And honestly, fella, you've been had. We all were.

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Date: Fri, Sep 08, 2000 at 05:22:04 (GMT) From: Shroomananda Email: None To: Jim Subject: I feel sorry for you, Jim. You're so bitter and Message:

angry. Are you getting some help? I guess this forum is therapy for you. Get all the rage and hatred and bitterness and frustration out of your system. If it still isn't enough, please seek a professional. I'm sure you can afford it. Maharaji talks about love, peace, joy, contentment, stillness, clarity. His Knowledge is free of charge. You guys sound like you were in a chain gang. You were forced to live in an ashram? You were forced to donate your money and time? You were forced to worship him as Lord of the Universe? I don't think so. You can call it a stupid little cult all you want. That doesn't make it so. It just makes you a small-minded vengeful human being. You're living in the past. Do yourself a favor. Find some good psychedelics. You know, some good mushrooms, peyote, LSD or ecstacy. Sit down in a quiet place with yourself or with a close friend. Take a trip and release all this stuff. Or find a good therapist. You'll feel better if you do. And when that last breath is approaching, you know, the one where you exhale and don't inhale again, try to remember holy name again. You never know when that last one will occur. But it will. It's inevitable. So when it comes, make that effort. You might feel better when you do.

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Date: Thurs, Sep 07, 2000 at 04:32:14 (GMT) From: Scott T. Email: None To: Shroomananda Subject: Yes, he does, Rob. When I listen to him, I'm Message:

Shroom: I don't know you, but somehow I feel I know you. Re: I really felt that he was in that room that day. Not physically, of course, but what happened in that room was a result of him in some way. Anyway, that's how I felt. And I really felt like the school's head cheerleader was just dying to hop in the sack with me in HS. Guess that proves it. Wish I'd had access to this sort of logic back then. Scott 'Embittered and disillusioned about lost opportunities.' T.

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Date: Thurs, Sep 07, 2000 at 05:24:28 (GMT) From: Shroomananda Email: None To: Scott T. Subject: Well, if you felt that she was somehow in the room Message:

but her body was somewhere else, it wouldn't have done you much good now, would it, Scott? Why did you walk into your Knowledge session, Mr. T? Maharaji was somewhere else that day. Right? Yet you received his Knowledge from Rajeswar. Eh?

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Date: Thurs, Sep 07, 2000 at 13:31:28 (GMT) From: Scott T. Email: None To: Shroomananda Subject: Well, if you felt that she was somehow in the room Message:

but her body was somewhere else, it wouldn't have done you much good now, would it, Scott? Her body was somewhere else? :( Why did you walk into your Knowledge session, Mr. T? Maharaji was somewhere else that day. Right? Yet you received his Knowledge from Rajeswar. Eh? Your coherence is leaking. There's a big gap between 'walk into' and 'from Rajeswar.' An experiment with replications under similar conditions, conducted by David Lane, produced the reliable convication that the experience was engendered by whatever or whoever appeared to sponsor the initiation. This trick has been used since the creation of the cave paintings in Lasceaux. Indeed, if I had appeared to sponsor the initiation it would have been me who appeared to the initiates in the Light. (I think I've made this point before, but reliability seems to cause you to slip your tracks.) I still can't get over the fact that her body was somewhere else. Are you sure? --Scott

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Date: Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 15:31:24 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: Shroomananda Subject: Let's face it, Shroom Message:

Your headaches are just because you're so busy trying to dodge the simple truth. Come celan with yourself for a change. You'll like it.

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Date: Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 03:44:14 (GMT) From: English Instructor Email: None To: Rob Subject: It's 'propagandist' not 'progogandist, and, also. Message:

propogandist (sic) bullshit 'Propagandist' is a noun not an adjective. It means one who engages in propaganda. Actually there isn't an adjective form of 'progagnada.' Maybe it would have been better to use bullshit as an adjective and say: 'I am unswayed by your bullshit propaganda.' Just trying to be helpful. Sincerely, Mr. English Instructor

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Date: Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 12:02:45 (GMT) From: Collins Dictionary Email: None To: English Unstructor Subject: It's 'propagandist' not 'progogandist, and, also. Message:

English Instructor: 'Propagandist' is a noun not an adjective. It means one who engages in propaganda. Actually there isn't an adjective form of 'progagnada.' Maybe it would have been better to use bullshit as an adjective and say: 'I am unswayed by your bullshit propaganda.' Oh dear. My Collins Dictionary of the English Language has the following entry under propaganda ... propagandist n., adj. What can it mean? Anyway, even if you were right I should say HEY MAVEN, LEAVE MY TONGUE ALONE! English is as she is spoke, and I love her. JohnT

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Date: Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 21:40:41 (GMT) From: G Email: None To: Collins Dictionary Subject: propagandist Message:

propagandist adj : of or relating to or characterized by propaganda [syn: propagandistic] More on propagandist from www.dictionary.com: prop·a·gan·da n. 1.The systematic propagation of a doctrine or cause or of information reflecting the views and interests of those people advocating such a doctrine or cause. 2.Material disseminated by the advocates of a doctrine or cause: the selected truths, exaggerations, and lies of wartime propaganda. 3.Propaganda. Roman Catholic Church. A division of the Roman Curia that has authority in the matter of preaching the gospel, of establishing the Church in non-Christian countries, and of administering Church missions in territories where there is no properly organized hierarchy. [New Latin short for Sacra Congregatio de Propaganda Fide, Sacred Congregation for Propagating the Faith (established 1622), from ablative feminine gerundive of Latin propagare, to propagate; see propagate.] propa·gandism n. propa·gandist n. propa·gan·distic adj. propa·gan·disti·cal·ly adv. Source: The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Third Edition propagandist \Prop`a*gan'dist\, n. [Cf. F. propagandiste.] A person who devotes himself to the spread of any system of principles. ``Political propagandists.'' --Walsh. Source: Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, © 1996, 1998 MICRA, Inc. propagandist adj : of or relating to or characterized by propaganda [syn: propagandistic] n : a person who disseminates messages calculated to assist some cause or some government [syn: agitprop] Source: WordNet ® 1.6, © 1997 Princeton University

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Date: Thurs, Sep 07, 2000 at 03:40:50 (GMT) From: JohnT Email: None To: G Subject: ... as we were saying below Message:

Hi G, My youngest woke me up, crying with cramp. Forgive me, but I thought for a while you might be the 'English Instructor' - it's good to see the real thing. Quite inimitable (that wasn't you was it? This place is bloody confusing, it seems to me.) Anyway, as we were saying below, shroom certainly doesn't seem real - more like a part being played by a hired hack. I have some difficulty in telling whether a post purporting to be from a premie really is from a genuine person or from a hack, hired to play the part. And that amanuensis business, well... enough said I think. On the other hand, I do spot the spoof premies (PP; SS; TM; EV) almost straight away. The problem, it seems to me, is that the premie consciousness simply isn't genuine. Oh it's real alright, don't get me wrong. What I mean is it's like a false consciousness, caused by believing too much. Or more accurately, by systematically misrepresenting belief as knowledge. Nothing wrong with believing in matters of faith (up to a point that is: faith can be terribly abused). Nor is there anything wrong with aspiring to knowledge of the knowable (to the extent we can). But to systematically palm off belief as knowledge is likely to be crazy making, I should say. I was interested in your 'another reason' (to suppose shroom nothing more than a hired hack) - that he said I think, therefore I am.' But what pumps blood to the brain that ALLOWS it to think, Nigel? Could it be, oh I don't know, THE HEART? And when people commit suicide with guns, where do they usually aim? I don't have the figures, but I would have to guess that the majority of the muzzles are pointed at the head and not the chest. That paragraph startled me when I read it. As argumentation it's nonsense, of course. But shroom writes a great deal of nonsense, it seems to you and me both, I imagine. So what is about that particular passage that is so fishy? It eludes me. Incidently, I followed your conversation with Gerry on the subject of qualia with interest. Well, at first I found it annoying - but as it went on I began to see the puzzle. There is a theorem in geometry which has long amused me in this context. Like many ideas in math it may be taken as merely suggestive - or, to those who consider math to have a peculiar ontological status, hugely significant! A point can be defined as the intersection of two lines; and a line can be defined by two points. This symetry of definition has a most intruiging consequence which is as follows: in planar geometry, any theorem which is true remains true if the term point and line are interchanged throughout. So what? It's a visual thing, that's what. One may write out a geometrical theorem in words; and then represent that theorem with a diagram. Then substitute the terms point and line for each other throughout the theorem, and draw that diagram. The two pictures will look quite dissimilar. So my point, and I do have one (as lurkex said in her splendid post)is that you can look at one picture, and I at the other, and we can talk sensibly about the pictures we see, and never realise we are seeing quite different appearances. Do you think it is possible, contrariwise, for people to see the same picture, but not realise it in their discourses? I think I'm ready to go back to sleep now. And I should imagine I've lulled a few others into the land of nod as well! Respect. And Good Luck.

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Date: Thurs, Sep 07, 2000 at 04:37:25 (GMT) From: G Email: None To: JohnT Subject: ... as we were saying below Message:

Forgive me, but I thought for a while you might be the 'English Instructor' - it's good to see the real thing. Quite inimitable (that wasn't you was it? This place is bloody confusing, it seems to me.) No, that wasn't me, although I can see why you thought that. I always go to www.dictionary.com. Yea, it's confusing. Anyway, as we were saying below, shroom certainly doesn't seem real - more like a part being played by a hired hack. I'm confused by the inconsistency of his posts. They don't seem to add up to a real person. I don't think he's a hired hack, that's not Rawat's style. ...systematically misrepresenting belief as knowledge. That happens a lot. I think, therefore I am.' But what pumps blood to the brain that ALLOWS it to think, Nigel? Could it be, oh I don't know, THE HEART? And when people commit suicide with guns, where do they usually aim? I don't have the figures, but I would have to guess that the majority of the muzzles are pointed at the head and not the chest. So what is about that particular passage that is so fishy? It sounds satirical. It's hard to believe that a college graduate (assuming he is one) would write this. I think he is smarter than this. Almost everyone knows there is more to the brain than blood flow. Also, Rawat said that by 'heart', he didn't mean the actual heart organ. It's hard for me to believe a premie would think this way. But who knows. Incidently, I followed your conversation with Gerry on the subject of qualia with interest. ... those who consider math to have a peculiar ontological status, hugely significant! That was Jerry. I consider math to have that status. It describes the physical world too well, like the relationship between the zeros of the zeta function and 'quantum chaos'. I did a little research and found that the Reinmann hypothesis is considered the most important unsolved problem in math, whereas 'quantum chaos' probably is one of the most perplexing mysteries in nature. And there is a numerical relationship. in planar geometry, any theorem which is true remains true if the term point and line are interchanged throughout. That's an amazing theorem. Does this theorem have a name? Is there something about it on the web? Do you think it is possible, contrariwise, for people to see the same picture, but not realise it in their discourses? Yes.

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Date: Thurs, Sep 07, 2000 at 13:19:26 (GMT) From: JohnT Email: None To: G Subject: ... as we were saying below Message:

Thanks, I take your point about shroom not being a mercenary - definately not like Rawat to fork out money! But there is something very odd about his posts, for sure. As you know, my understanding of premie thought is only second hand - but that passage you alighted on rang false to me as well. Thanks for spelling it out. Makes sense. But as you say, who knows? Shroom' comes here, apparently deep in denial and delusion, thinking at the 'conscious' level that he is smarter and more switched on than us others. Occasionally he tips over into self-parody. I guess that could happen to a person who has developed their inauthenticity into a full-blown delusional system. Sorry about the various typos. I've noticed a few times how people will sometimes substitute an identically sounding but differently spelled word for the one they intend. I do hope neither Gerry nor Jerry took offence. Math is pattern. There is only one math, but many different types of physical universe can be modelled in theory. So yes, it is quite different from other types of being. More fundamental somehow. I'll get to work finding out a little more on in planar geometry, any theorem which is true remains true if the term point and line are interchanged throughout. I do not think it is thought to be particularly significant mathematically speaking - it derives merely from the interchangeability of the terms in their respective definitions (I should add it may be that this result applies only to a subset of planar geometry - it is a long time since I studied these things) - but I thought it would appeal to you. To my mind, it indicates that what we can talk about is only relationships between things - never the things. Only the form, never the content. Never the qualia - only their relationships. But why qualia? Why consciousness? Why bother? All the best to you, G!

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Date: Fri, Sep 08, 2000 at 02:28:31 (GMT) From: G Email: None To: JohnT Subject: ... as we were saying below Message:

To my mind, it indicates that what we can talk about is only relationships between things - never the things. Only the form, never the content. Never the qualia - only their relationships. But why qualia? Why consciousness? Why bother? Without qualia, without consciousness, what's the point? Maybe that's why.

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Date: Thurs, Sep 07, 2000 at 22:54:50 (GMT) From: Scott T. Email: None To: JohnT Subject: ... as we were saying below Message:

JohnT (are we related?): Math is pattern. There is only one math, but many different types of physical universe can be modelled in theory. Not so. In Synergetic Geometry all of the Euclidean Axioms and Postulates are violated. There are no dimensionless points, one-dimensional lines, or two dimensional planes. There are, in fact, no constructions of less than 4 dimensions, and physical universe begins at 6. There are no 'straight' lines, no two lines are ever parallel, and no two lines ever intersect. Just because only one math is taught doesn't mean there's but one. (Just to break out of the rectilinear closet a little further, there's no universal rule that says we have to account area in terms of squares, or space in terms of cubes. All that's required is that the unit shape used be 'space or area filling' so for area we could use either triangles or hexagons... in which case the standard formulas for area would all change. As for space, the rhombic dodecahedron actually works much better than the cube because it's also the domain of a sphere, and fortunately has a cubic area of exactly 6. I wonder if you could get away with reporting 'rhombic feet' on your property tax assessment?) --Scott

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Date: Fri, Sep 08, 2000 at 08:28:46 (GMT) From: JohnT Email: None To: Scott T. Subject: oh yes Message:

there's some very interesting stuff. I was really trying to say something like 'whatever the initial conditions of the universe; or the values of the various physical constants; whichever universe came into existence; however it arrived; the same set of prime numbers would exist' Who was it that said 'God created the integers, all else is the work of man'? With a name like yours, you must be an engineer on a star-ship. That's great. We've got Scotty; Jim; and Mr Spock here. Oh yeah; and we're doing battle with an evil alien slime toad!

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Date: Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 22:51:04 (GMT) From: Michael Email: None To: G Subject: propagandist Message:

Here in Central America the word 'propoganda' means advertisment; ads on TV are called propoganda.

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Date: Thurs, Sep 07, 2000 at 01:03:01 (GMT) From: Scott T. Email: None To: Michael Subject: propagandist Message:

Michael: Here in Central America the word 'propoganda' means advertisment; ads on TV are called propoganda. Well, thankYOU! And isn't it all just healthy, clean and natural? --Scott 'Waiting for the lettuce to propagandize itself, before eating salad again.' T.

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Date: Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 04:44:02 (GMT) From: Rob Email: None To: English Instructor Subject: Thank you Sir Message:

I tend to magnle my words when I'm excited. I also dribble out of the corner of my mouth. Sorry....

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Date: Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 04:09:22 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: English Instructor Subject: How 'bout 'propagandistic'? (nt) Message:

mmm

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Date: Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 01:17:32 (GMT) From: Stonor Email: None To: Jim Subject: Just call me a Venus Fly Trap, Jim. (nt) Message:

You can dish it out, but you sure can't swallow it, let alone digest it, can you Jim? ;-) Breaks over, back to the kitchen.

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Date: Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 16:04:22 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: Stonor Subject: How about a milkweed? (nt) Message:

gggg

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Date: Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 01:13:18 (GMT) From: Michael Email: None To: Jim Subject: 'wrestle with the ghosts of Hans Jayanti past.' Message:

A beautiful line, Jim, just beautiful. Thanks.

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Date: Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 03:13:44 (GMT) From: sai billda Email: None To: Michael Subject: 'wrestle with the ghosts of Hans Jayanti past.' Message:

Yeah, I chuckled at that one also. Actually I find lots of amuseing lines here on the forum.

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Date: Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 01:27:27 (GMT) From: Glen Whittaker Email: None To: Michael Subject: 'wrestle with the ghosts of Hans Jayanti past.' Message:

You people need to get your history correct. Please read my 'History of the Organisations' on the Elan Vital website for the true record. There is no evidence that there were any ghosts at any past Hans Jayanti festival. This is just a bunch of vicious rumor-mongoring for which this website is famous. Besides, the words 'Hans Jayanti' are based on a Hindu concept the caused a lot of the many problems we had in the beginning of the organisations. First, there were a lot of drug-culture hippies with no money, who were enamored by all the silly Hindu concepts that Maharaji was forced by them to observe. Then, Maharaji saw a naked woman on a bed and was shocked, and then the premies and Maharaji mutually admired each other while dancing for a few years, and then Maharaji got rid of all the Hindu concepts that the hippies, who were now off drugs and were in no danger of going back to drugs, forced him to observe. It was only by Maharaji's enigmatic, Herculean effort, and not because he was God, which he never claimed to be, that he was able to drag all those hippies into the groovy me-generation 80s, and then everything was just fine, and not at all like a cult, which Elan Vital is not and never was. Now the organisations are stripped down, and everything is so synchronized and straight-forward and focusing on non-hierarchical teamwork, all coming from the joy those with that Knowledge experience, those who make the effort that is.

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Date: Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 04:10:49 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: Glen Whittaker Subject: 'wrestle with the ghosts of Hans Jayanti past.' Message:

Very, very funny. But, alas, you should be blocked.

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Date: Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 02:53:38 (GMT) From: Roger eDrek Email: drek@oz.net To: Glen Whittaker Subject: Who the hell cares about ghosts when... Message:

you've got this? Satanic worshipping cult activities

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Date: Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 04:16:48 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: Roger eDrek Subject: That is SO ABUSIVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Message:

Fuck you, Roger Drek! Block yourself, bud. Remember when you were web master? Well, invoke the sacred powers you once controlled, one last time, and please, for the sake of those of us who still have feelings, block thyself! How's it going anyway? You're in Toledo now, right?

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Date: Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 04:54:33 (GMT) From: Roger eDrek Email: drek@oz.net To: Jim Subject: Because you see yourself as a Satan worshipper? Message:

Admit it, Jimbo. You worshipped Satan. You devoted your life to the Devil. You licked the boots of his minions. Me, I'm just a busy synchronized beaver living in a desert that glorifyies everything that is so terribly wrong with Amerika - $500,000 median priced houses, white BMWs and platoons of SUVs running down the feeble pedestrians. Every person over 12 years old has a cell phone. 90% of the women are augmented. The men have successfully morphed fully into GQ models. And dot conformity is everywhere. Me, my next play is further out. Further out into the desert where the only technology I'll be operating is a cash register at a self-serve gas station. Excuse me now while I abuse myself.

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Date: Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 03:11:50 (GMT) From: sai billda Email: None To: Roger eDrek Subject: Roger eDevil! Message:

You shape shifting devil you. Your creativity is great.

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Date: Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 03:31:51 (GMT) From: Roger eDrek Email: drek@oz.net To: sai billda Subject: And you are the master of disguise! (nt) Message:

asdf

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