Forum V: Archive
Compiled: Tues, Oct 10, 2000 at 09:50:49 (GMT)
From: Sep 26, 2000 To: Oct 07, 2000 Page: 5 Of: 5


Jean-Michel -:- Some news from the program in Paris 2 days ago -:- Wed, Sep 27, 2000 at 21:28:35 (GMT)
__ la-ex -:- Some news from the program in Paris 2 days ago -:- Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 02:20:41 (GMT)
__ __ Y -:- They charge so much for Australia -:- Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 20:06:55 (GMT)
__ __ __ JTF -:- They charge so much for Australia -:- Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 08:50:32 (GMT)
__ __ __ Captain Pugwash -:- I'm confused about something...... -:- Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 04:35:22 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ la-ex -:- I'm confused about something......GREAT POST! -:- Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 05:14:06 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Salam -:- There are EVs and there are evs. -:- Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 10:32:23 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ la-ex -:- YES, Amaroo is definitely for retirement... -:- Sat, Sep 30, 2000 at 03:47:26 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Roger eDrek -:- They are doing this all wrong! -:- Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 05:06:50 (GMT)
__ Salam -:- From EV What is Happening -:- Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 01:33:09 (GMT)
__ __ Salam -:- and: packed Paris venue -:- Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 01:45:55 (GMT)
__ __ __ Jim -:- Funny, Harrogate was 'packed' too -:- Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 17:55:56 (GMT)
__ __ __ Joe -:- Those forumlaic reports -:- Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 19:51:02 (GMT)
__ Roger eDrek -:- Ouch! That must hurt -:- Wed, Sep 27, 2000 at 22:59:20 (GMT)
__ __ Sir Dave -:- Ouch! That must hurt -:- Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 00:06:55 (GMT)
__ __ AJW -:- It scared me Roger. -:- Wed, Sep 27, 2000 at 23:22:49 (GMT)
__ __ __ Roger eDrek -:- Didn't she know you are the Anth-Thy-Christ? -:- Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 00:31:52 (GMT)

Pauline Premie -:- I Am So Grateful -:- Wed, Sep 27, 2000 at 20:02:16 (GMT)
__ Gregg -:- Mitch and Fuzzbee -:- Wed, Sep 27, 2000 at 20:51:40 (GMT)

Salam -:- How does EV define truth? -:- Wed, Sep 27, 2000 at 18:53:55 (GMT)
__ AJW -:- Two types of truth. -:- Wed, Sep 27, 2000 at 22:58:32 (GMT)
__ __ Gordon Showcase -:- Two types of Anth -:- Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 00:17:48 (GMT)
__ __ __ Salam -:- What were the other phases? -:- Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 10:53:41 (GMT)
__ __ __ ExTex -:- Two types of Anth -:- Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 06:27:44 (GMT)
__ __ __ Captain Pugwash -:- Hey you're here too Gordy!! -:- Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 04:52:11 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ AJW -:- I want the dirt Capn' -:- Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 13:32:58 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Salam -:- check details on AG..nt -:- Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 19:01:14 (GMT)
__ __ __ cq -:- May I quote you on this one? -:- Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 18:02:28 (GMT)
__ __ __ AJW -:- Maybe I'll be the first... -:- Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 09:17:05 (GMT)
__ Yves -:- What was your first question? -:- Wed, Sep 27, 2000 at 19:55:35 (GMT)

Way -:- Janice Wilson gets excited in bed -:- Wed, Sep 27, 2000 at 18:20:26 (GMT)
__ AJW -:- You don't get it Way. -:- Wed, Sep 27, 2000 at 22:54:43 (GMT)
__ Pauline Premie -:- You are so crude.. -:- Wed, Sep 27, 2000 at 19:46:24 (GMT)
__ __ Roger eDrek -:- Uh, excuse me, Pauline, but... -:- Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 04:21:45 (GMT)
__ __ __ Pauline Premie -:- You are in your mind.... -:- Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 19:55:59 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Roger eDrek -:- This is a Service opportunity, Pauline -:- Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 20:47:47 (GMT)
__ __ AJW -:- Pauline, you're a hoot. (nt) -:- Wed, Sep 27, 2000 at 23:53:24 (GMT)
__ cq -:- and shthees only thixteen? -:- Wed, Sep 27, 2000 at 18:33:28 (GMT)
__ __ Orgasm? -:- must be that (nt) -:- Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 03:47:07 (GMT)
__ Salam -:- Very funny -:- Wed, Sep 27, 2000 at 18:30:42 (GMT)

Yves -:- Whaddo you get when you look for Gylanix on Yahoo? -:- Wed, Sep 27, 2000 at 17:02:25 (GMT)
__ AJW -:- Hey, I need a degree... -:- Wed, Sep 27, 2000 at 23:27:13 (GMT)
__ __ Yves -:- Get info from Drek site -:- Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 13:55:18 (GMT)
__ Yves -:- Whaddo you get when you look for Gylanix on Yahoo? -:- Wed, Sep 27, 2000 at 17:53:03 (GMT)

Salam -:- An e-mail to EV -:- Wed, Sep 27, 2000 at 02:12:17 (GMT)

Captain Pugwash -:- Pssst - wanna participate in a Survey? -:- Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 22:49:42 (GMT)
__ Tonette -:- Any reason why we shouldn't stuff this -:- Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 02:42:59 (GMT)
__ __ Captain Pugwash -:- One reason -:- Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 04:10:30 (GMT)
__ __ __ Tonette -:- What? Sorry that went right over -:- Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 06:27:27 (GMT)
__ Yves -:- It reminds me of the fake surveys we had in 1975 -:- Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 14:58:09 (GMT)
__ AJW -:- That was fun -:- Wed, Sep 27, 2000 at 23:07:21 (GMT)
__ Salam -:- Pssst - wanna participate in a Survey? -:- Wed, Sep 27, 2000 at 00:25:27 (GMT)

suchabanana -:- OUR Knowledge -- REVOLUTION for the Love of It!!! -:- Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 21:23:27 (GMT)
__ suchabanana -:- OUR Knowledge - last paragraph - (corrected typos) -:- Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 21:36:22 (GMT)
__ __ suchabanana -:- OUR Knowledge - last paragraphs - (2nd try) -:- Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 21:40:43 (GMT)
__ __ __ ExTex -:- Hmmm, Interesting Proposal Hmmm. (nt) -:- Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 07:47:42 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ ExTex -:- PS- Aren't there already sites that do this? (nt) -:- Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 07:54:07 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ suchabanana -:- Not very well (nt) -:- Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 17:30:24 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ bill -:- Suchie -:- Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 14:50:16 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ suchabanana -:- r.e. fave techs -:- Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 19:52:30 (GMT)

Yves -:- When multiple sources leak the same info... -:- Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 18:38:35 (GMT)
__ AJW -:- So what? -:- Wed, Sep 27, 2000 at 23:34:01 (GMT)
__ __ Jim -:- Sorry, Anth, I'm with Yves on this one -:- Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 06:44:50 (GMT)
__ __ __ AJW -:- Let the Morality Trials Begin. -:- Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 09:33:33 (GMT)
__ __ __ Mili -:- SCANDALOUS! -:- Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 07:54:12 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Yves -:- Two standards -:- Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 14:06:10 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ AJW -:- Sorry Jim, I'm with Mili on this one (nt) -:- Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 09:35:03 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Why? Just because she's a woman? -:- Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 16:55:27 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Yves -:- Has initiator interviewed in 1997 come out? -:- Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 20:38:34 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Yep -:- Two things -:- Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 19:02:13 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Yo -:- Jim, let me reveal your true nature before all -:- Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 18:30:18 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ AJW -:- Why? Just because she's a woman? -:- Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 18:26:14 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Who's a 'consenting adult' in a cult? -:- Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 22:01:19 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Steve -:- Cult leader (s) ? -:- Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 11:22:10 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Yves -:- We're not duscussing her profile here -:- Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 13:50:04 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Steve -:- Yves , hypocricy is a very common human trait- -:- Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 14:10:56 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- All the hypocrisy shld be revealed -:- Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 16:44:05 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Yves -:- This isn't a fourth hand account by the way -:- Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 19:40:48 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Yo -:- Sexuality and sect are both strong on abuse -:- Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 19:23:41 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Yves -:- Hold it right there. -:- Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 18:58:37 (GMT)

Yves -:- Quote of the day -:- Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 17:21:56 (GMT)

shp -:- settling up on recent threads and posts -:- Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 15:53:18 (GMT)
__ Roger eDrek -:- Go fuck yourself, Preacher! -:- Wed, Sep 27, 2000 at 22:52:13 (GMT)
__ __ bill -:- Go fuck yourself, Preacher! -:- Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 18:58:08 (GMT)
__ __ Elaine -:- Well in a sense he's right -:- Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 02:25:42 (GMT)
__ __ __ Roger eDrek -:- Elaine, right about shp. His heart is good -:- Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 21:09:49 (GMT)
__ __ __ gerry -:- Your dildo run out of batteries, Elaine? -:- Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 14:34:09 (GMT)
__ __ __ Jim -:- Get lost, Elaine -:- Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 03:47:14 (GMT)
__ __ __ Elaine -:- Oh ,this was posted in the wrong place, sorry -:- Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 02:29:37 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ AJW -:- Elaine, did you know there's a bird on your head? -:- Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 12:09:30 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ mum -:- how are the tranquilesers and the booze elaine? -:- Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 03:55:01 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- now now... -:- Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 04:07:02 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Roger eDrek -:- Bullshit, ELAINE! You think you know what you are -:- Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 03:16:59 (GMT)
__ Jerry -:- You're not alone, Sandy -:- Wed, Sep 27, 2000 at 22:43:08 (GMT)
__ Salam -:- You have already tried this trick -:- Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 17:11:01 (GMT)
__ Yves -:- Have you stopped beating your wife yet? -:- Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 16:06:41 (GMT)
__ __ Scott T. -:- eine kleine whine' -:- Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 06:02:50 (GMT)
__ __ shp -:- reply to Yves -:- Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 16:17:47 (GMT)
__ __ __ cq -:- SLAP! that monkey ... -:- Wed, Sep 27, 2000 at 18:42:04 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ shp -:- SPCA and shp say be kind to animals -:- Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 03:34:25 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ cq -:- The reference wasn't to animals ... -:- Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 17:47:13 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- Sheepy sheepy sheepy -:- Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 17:16:16 (GMT)
__ __ __ Yves -:- Am I missing something here? -:- Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 16:47:40 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ AJW -:- Can anyone join this religion Yves? -:- Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 17:15:41 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Yves -:- Religions, like library cards R not to be shared -:- Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 17:56:07 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ AJW -:- Who are the handcuffs for then? -:- Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 18:03:53 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Yves -:- shp. Show your hands. (NT) -:- Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 18:42:01 (GMT)
__ gerry -:- You're an asshole, plain and simple -:- Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 16:03:00 (GMT)

Tim Matheson -:- LORD Maharaji's Agya for Shp -:- Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 13:52:49 (GMT)
__ Jerry -:- I had the same dream! -:- Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 14:49:49 (GMT)
__ __ Tonette -:- A little comic relief is just what the Master -:- Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 16:41:20 (GMT)
__ __ shp -:- your paints are muddy and so are Tim's -:- Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 15:16:08 (GMT)
__ __ __ ExTex -:- your paints are muddy and so are Tim's -:- Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 06:55:22 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ shp -:- your paints are muddy and so are Tim's -:- Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 03:41:44 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ ExTex -:- your paints are muddy and so are Tim's -:- Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 06:56:04 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ shp -:- your paints are muddy and so are Tim's -:- Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 12:40:46 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Shp, if you were here in person I'd laugh you out -:- Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 03:56:50 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ shp -:- There you go again.... -:- Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 04:07:57 (GMT)
__ __ __ Scott T. -:- your pants are muddy and so are yours -:- Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 06:13:36 (GMT)
__ __ __ cq -:- and yours? -:- Wed, Sep 27, 2000 at 20:07:59 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ shp -:- and yours? -:- Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 03:48:44 (GMT)
__ __ __ Jim -:- I have a serious question for you, Sanford Pass -:- Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 19:46:23 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ shp -:- I have a surprising answer for you, Jim Heller -:- Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 03:54:51 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- I have a surprising answer for you, Jim Heller -:- Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 05:46:14 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ shp -:- I have a surprising answer for you, Jim Heller -:- Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 12:42:32 (GMT)
__ __ __ Tonette -:- Want to know why premies are suspect? -:- Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 16:38:54 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ shp -:- Want to know why premies are suspect? -:- Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 18:53:19 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ cq -:- 'The horrible things' -:- Wed, Sep 27, 2000 at 20:14:10 (GMT)
__ __ __ AJW -:- You've got a cockatoo on your head Sandy -:- Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 16:30:41 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ AJW -:- PS. The bird was her pet and often stood there-nt -:- Wed, Sep 27, 2000 at 22:50:30 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Birdwatcher to MI6 -:- parrot-fashion, now, ... *BEST OF* J-M? (nt) -:- Wed, Sep 27, 2000 at 19:38:52 (GMT)
__ __ __ gerry -:- Connecting Inside -:- Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 15:37:49 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ shp -:- Craving no one's attention here -:- Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 16:05:41 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ ExTex -:- Craving no one's attention here -:- Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 07:14:44 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ shp -:- You don't have to shout... -:- Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 04:03:23 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ ExTex -:- You don't have to shout... -:- Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 07:20:00 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ shp -:- You don't have to shout... -:- Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 12:48:17 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ ExTex -:- Go Greens! -:- Sat, Sep 30, 2000 at 04:20:34 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ shp -:- Go Greens! -:- Sat, Sep 30, 2000 at 15:45:23 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Jean-Michel -:- Anth ? -:- Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 16:33:31 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ AJW -:- Toute suite (nt) -:- Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 16:37:47 (GMT)

suchabanana -:- no monopoly on timeless wisdom and teachings -:- Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 03:47:50 (GMT)
__ suchabanana -:- no monopoly on timeless wisdom and teachings cont. -:- Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 05:30:36 (GMT)
__ bill -:- 'darkness within darkness the key to all mystery'? -:- Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 05:09:42 (GMT)
__ __ suchabanana -:- Light within darkness the key to all mystery! -:- Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 06:09:07 (GMT)
__ __ __ bill -:- inner 'light' is not fascinating -:- Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 14:09:26 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ bill -:- blame it on the design -:- Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 14:45:45 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ ExTex -:- blame it on the design -:- Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 06:31:41 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ bill -:- blame it on the design -:- Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 03:14:29 (GMT)
__ suchabanana -:- on the internet -:- Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 03:56:23 (GMT)
__ __ shp -:- interesting thread -:- Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 14:02:26 (GMT)
__ __ __ gerry -:- Yer such a dope. Sandy -:- Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 19:51:26 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ shp -:- Aw shucks, ger -:- Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 21:50:39 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- OK, how 'bout this... -:- Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 23:57:16 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ shp -:- OK, how 'bout this... -:- Sat, Sep 30, 2000 at 16:34:48 (GMT)


Date: Wed, Sep 27, 2000 at 21:28:35 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Some news from the program in Paris 2 days ago
Message:
2,000 premies only showed up !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

DVD-k review for 1 hour
Rawat's speech

The whole thing was set up for 3,700 people,
you can imagine the depth of the deficit!

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Date: Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 02:20:41 (GMT)
From: la-ex
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Some news from the program in Paris 2 days ago
Message:
Jm-When premies flocked to miami this year for 2 programs,the hall was quite empty for the 2nd night.
EV honchos had strict orders to have the hall filled to capacity,so they called hundreds of local premies in the south florida area and told them that they had an extremely important service for them to do that night at the program.It was essential that they attend,to help put on the program.(who knows, maybe they would even be backstage!)
When all these extra bodies arrived at the hall, they were then told that somehow they were not needed for service, but were asked/invited to stay and enjoy the show.In other words,EV manipulated the premies into filling the hall (most likely with another donation)so m's feelings wouldn't be hurt,and he wouldn't realize how little interest there is in him today.

Is this the 'emporer's clothes', the 'little boy who cried wolf', or what?

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Date: Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 20:06:55 (GMT)
From: Y
Email: None
To: la-ex
Subject: They charge so much for Australia
Message:
How may people can this hall hold? My be is not many will go. This may be the closing of an era.
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Date: Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 08:50:32 (GMT)
From: JTF
Email: None
To: Y
Subject: They charge so much for Australia
Message:
I think this cult is evolving into a 'studio' cult. By that I mean, they can make more money by satellite broadcasts than from the live event. It seems that rawat can create at least 3 videos from 1 event. The 2 times he waddles out onto the stage to speak and a pot pouri or collage video based on a theme.
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Date: Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 04:35:22 (GMT)
From: Captain Pugwash
Email: None
To: Y
Subject: I'm confused about something......
Message:
OK, Amaroo, aka Ivory Rock Conference Center (IRCC) is run locally as a for-profit convention and accomodation facility, right? Its owned/managed by some 'Jeep' company. Elan Vital, being a *charity*, supposedly has no stake in it or rake off of the profits? You with me so far?? Good, then will somebody PULLEASE explain why they (Elan Vital) are pleading with premies to donate money to improve the accomodation facilities there (IRCC)?

Am I missing something? I mean, isnt that a bit like the Salvation Army asking me to contribute to redecorating the Park Lane Hilton because the Commander-in-Chief wants to hold a meeting there?

Once these 'facilities' are expanded at Amaroo, its not just premies who benefit from them is it? No, IRCC makes a healthy profit on 'tween-event rentals. So what gives? Now if they were offering shares in the property to people donating money, that might be more interesting. But why is EV helping this *unrelated* company (IRCC, Jeep whoever) increase their future profits?

Like I said, I'm confused.......

Cap'n P.

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Date: Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 05:14:06 (GMT)
From: la-ex
Email: None
To: Captain Pugwash
Subject: I'm confused about something......GREAT POST!
Message:
Captain-you make a very good point.I wonder if you would consider sending EV an email,asking them to explain that very point.It would be very interesting to hear their explanation,why premies should donate money to the supposedly non profit EV, when the site will also turn a profit, and one way or another, I think we all know WHO will gut his grubby little hamster paws on that dinero when it is made...
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Date: Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 10:32:23 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: la-ex
Subject: There are EVs and there are evs.
Message:
To Captin and la-ex,

There is more than one EV in the picture. EV 'charity' is the mother of all EVs. It is based in A merica. EV Australia is another entity that has nothing (at least legally) to do with EV A merica. EV A ustralia is a company and not a non-profit organization. The word 'help' is not the right word. Better 'pay for services rendered'. IRRC bills EV A merica for services rendered. These include operating costs when events take place.
you can imagine how big the bill is, probably in the hundreds of thousands of dollers. These cost include providing whatever accomodation gm requires. Remember gm is a guest speaker, that is 'invited' by EV A merica to speak in their event.

Premie donations go to EV coffers then get shipped to IRCC. And as you know premies are too passive to think the way you do, that is regarding improving the land at Amorro and making profit on real estate. They think it is a service. Service to give money and service to go and do slave labor at Amorro.

As to why they are using Amorro instead some other place like tierra del amor. I do not really know. There maybe several explination. One could be a hidden agenda. Could it be that gm is planning to retire in Australia? Why Australia? Well Australia is an advanced country is par with other countries. Amorro is a very large property, out of the way but close to a large urban area (Brisban), finally I feel that the issue of cult/brainwashing/abuse is not very well exposed in Australia. Also Australia in between the motherland(India) and the fatherland(A merica). It also could be that the Australian press is not as inquisitive as that of comparable countries. Immigration could be another thing.

I feel that you have asked a very good question, Why in Australia? You really should not ask questions like that because they have a roller coaster effect on me. I can not stop until I pop.

Salam down under.

p.s. any ozzies can comment on that, please do.

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Date: Sat, Sep 30, 2000 at 03:47:26 (GMT)
From: la-ex
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: YES, Amaroo is definitely for retirement...
Message:
Salam-yes,fatso is definitely planning on using amaroo as a retirement village of some sort or another..
He mentioned to John Bale,a 'humble' honcho,who does a lot with the money and books, that he would provide people like him with a small (note that he said 'small')stipend and a place to live in amaroo when they retire.
Lard also mentioned that to Julio Castro,an instructor,who,in his words is a 'city type of guy',and did not want to live there at all.When lard told Julio that he could retire in amaroo, Julio,after much anguish,said 'no thanks'.He thought that lard was hurt, but said that he had to say that, because the thought of hanging out in some remote piece of desolate property watching kangaroos hop around,was not something that turned him on...
So,he is definitely throwing that out as an incentive to those who want to give their life in blissful service to the master...
Anybody interested?
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Date: Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 05:06:50 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: drek@oz.net
To: Captain Pugwash
Subject: They are doing this all wrong!
Message:
Maharaji and Company needs to do the IRCC thing differently if they wish to get premies to provide the capital investment.

They need to offer one or two weeks per year of time shared usage in return for a rather healthy love offering or whatever they want to call it.

To get specific details on this money raising technique see Jim and Tammy Faye Baker and Heritage USA operation.

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Date: Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 01:33:09 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: From EV What is Happening
Message:
September 25, Paris, France

For people who have received the techniques of Knowledge. Due to limited seating, these events are for the people from Europe only.

September 27, Harrogate, UK
For people who have received the techniques of Knowledge. Due to limited seating, these events are for the people from UK and Ireland only.

September 30, Rome,
Italy For people who have received the techniques of Knowledge and for aspirants. Due to limited seating, this event is for the people from Europe only.

JMK,

Do you happen to have the figures for the UK? How many were expected and how many attended? Will have the Italian? How many people do you think attend the same event?

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Date: Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 01:45:55 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: All
Subject: and: packed Paris venue
Message:
European tour begins (from ELK)

First reports from Maharaji's first event of his 2000 European tour are that all those in the packed Paris venue were delighted to see him again.

The first 'Auto-Knowledge' session in Europe was also extremely well received.

Anyone knows if the 'Auto-Knlowledge' CD/DVD is avaliable from Amazon???!!!

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Date: Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 17:55:56 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: Funny, Harrogate was 'packed' too
Message:
From Elk:

The wind of change is blowing

In England the weather is always a topic of discussion. Mostly because it is so bad. And it was a wet and windy day that greeted over 2000 people who travelled to the Yorkshire spa town of Harrogate to see Maharaji in the UK for the first time since July last year when he spoke in Manchester.

It was there that he said he felt 'a wind of change' blowing. And as an autumn gale tugged at the leaves on the trees trying to push the seasons along into autumn, it was obvious that the changes he had predicted had come about.

Back in 1999 at Manchester the satellite era was starting to get into full swing, at Harrogate in 2000 Auto-Knowledge was unveiled for the first time in the UK, where Maharaji's teaching first took root in the west.

'Only listen to me, if your heart concurs. Otherwise, don't,' he told the packed International Centre. 'That has always been the message of the master.'

Now it is a timeless message delivered in the most modern of ways. Just how things will pan out is open to speculation, but now that the wind has started blowing it shows no sign of stopping.

The hour long address was telecast around the world a short time after Maharaji had finished. His main themes were the remarkable power of the breath, our ability to feel and appreciate life, and the need to practice Knowledge after receiving it.

'It is not enough to plant a seed, a gardener is required,' is how he put it.

He said that his message 'flies in the face of the world.' The guarantees we seek from our plans, our families and careers aren't as solid as we believe.

'The only thing that is guaranteed is that you can be fulfilled. And that is by design.'

(emphasis added)

Wonder how many latecomers got turned away?

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Date: Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 19:51:02 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: Those forumlaic reports
Message:
First reports from Maharaji's first event of his 2000 European tour are that all those in the packed Paris venue were delighted to see him again.

Isn't it amazing how those at ELK and EV who write these things know exactly how 'ALL' the people who attended a program feel, and the kinds of emotions they are having, like that they were 'delighted.' How the fuck do they know?

There isn't any reason for ELK or EV for writing anything original. They can say the same crap about any 'event' and who is going to contradict them, since they have censorship in full swing on their websites. Here is the basic formula, just fill in the blanks and select among the alternatives. No deviation is allowed without permission of Booth Dyess.

Reports from Maharaji's event in __________ on __________ as part of his ____________tour, say that the (packed/full/large/enthusiastic/capacity) venue was (thrilled/delighted/happy/joyful/fulfilled/) to see Maharaji and experience the (love/joy/gratitude/peace/wonderful gift) that filled the hall.

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Date: Wed, Sep 27, 2000 at 22:59:20 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: drek@oz.net
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Ouch! That must hurt
Message:
There's nothing worse than an undersold venue to put the damper on the big show.

At Long Beach, I've seen where 'they' play games with the the big black curtains on both sides of the stage to suck up empty space.

Maharaji, it's winding down. It's over. Give it up!

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Date: Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 00:06:55 (GMT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: Ouch! That must hurt
Message:
The Beatles knew when to call it a day - when they were at their most popular. This cult is past its sell by date. All the marketing ploys are not working. The Maharaji web sites only interest the dwindling faithful and attendences will surely continue to fall.

He came in with a bang but will go out with not even a whimper, since nobody will notice. It began with 'THE WEST GREETS THE LORD' as the first headline in the Divine Times.

It ends in garbled cultspeak, in sterile boredom and timekeeping. No wonder everybody left.

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Date: Wed, Sep 27, 2000 at 23:22:49 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: It scared me Roger.
Message:
Hi Roger,

I had premies stay with me here for the programme. It scared me when I had a conversation with one of them when they got back.

The person was in a very wierd state of mind, literally unable to connect a coherent thought up with their mouth.

She hadn't meditated for about 6 months- then did the group meditation to DVD, with 2000 other people. She said to me, 'What was really nice was that I was meditating because I wanted to. Not because of any group pressure or anything.' This is an intelligent person. I'd point out the obvious contradiction in what she said, and she smiled inanely and said something equal fucking stupid. I'd never seen the effects so close up and fresh before. It really made me feel sick.

It makes me quite angry to see how the perfect hamster is fucking these peoples heads up and making them behave like morons.

Anth- It's time this tinpot organisation was wound up for good.

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Date: Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 00:31:52 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: drek@oz.net
To: AJW
Subject: Didn't she know you are the Anth-Thy-Christ?
Message:
Anth, didn't the premies who stayed with you know that you are the Anth-Thy-Christ?

I guess that they know that you will be returning to the flock in Phase IV as Gordon prophesized.

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Date: Wed, Sep 27, 2000 at 20:02:16 (GMT)
From: Pauline Premie
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: I Am So Grateful
Message:
Sometimes I am overcome with gratitude and because of this I am even more grateful for the gift of gratitude.

Maharaji gives us gifts of knowledge, that feeling, that experience, that heart, and also gives us the gift of gratitude and the gift of participation, as well as other gifts. As Mitch Ditkoff says in his Perspective on the Elan Vital website, it's all about gratitude, which is a very underrated aspect of the hierarchy of emotions, or something like that. I don't understand it completely, but whatever he said must be true, or it wouldn't be on the Elan Vital website, which does 100% true and correct, and does not contain lies.

Mitch, who knows what he is talking about because he works in a company with that very clear saint Joan Apter, said that we should be grateful for being grateful. It all makes perfect sense to me, and I'm sure Joan would say the same thing, if she ever finished mentioning how screwed up she is, and we all are.

When I am overcome with gratitude like this, I just start singing that song we often sing to Maharaji, which is just a statement of gratitude, and doesn't imply in the least that Maharaji is the incarnation of god, because he never said that, and only someone lacking in the gift of understanding would think otherwise:

I love you my Lord
Your grace is over-flowing
I love you my Lord
You are all knowing

You have given me life
Out of your mercy and compassion
I am so grateful
For the gift of devotion

I love you my Lord
Your grace is over-flowing
I love you my Lord
You are all knowing

You body it is golden
Your heart is endless love
Your grace is eternal
You are the source of creation

I love you my Lord
Your grace is over-flowing
I love you my Lord
You are all knowing

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Date: Wed, Sep 27, 2000 at 20:51:40 (GMT)
From: Gregg
Email: None
To: Pauline Premie
Subject: Mitch and Fuzzbee
Message:
I used to be in an ashram with Mitch (and Fuzzbee) and I am so grateful that that exercise in satsang immersion (holy company, yeah, right!) only lasted a few months.

Mitch is a smart guy. And still a devotee of the non-Lord of the Universe, I see. Too bad.

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Date: Wed, Sep 27, 2000 at 18:53:55 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: How does EV define truth?
Message:
How many types of truth there are?

Looking at it from EV prospective and using the FAQ page on EV website under oposing view were EV replies to criticisms of its activities that have appeared on the Internet? View that EV considers to be allegations; one can notice that there are many.

The first: type of truth is what EV states in the four replies that are present. As one can see, these replies are arguable. Take for example their rebottle regarding the accusation whether EV is a cult or not. This topic is hazy since the definition of a cult is not clear-cut. Therefore it is arguable. The only way that one can definitely say that EV is a cult is when EV decides they are a cult, or by a court action.

Another argument is whether Guru maharaji ever said he was a GOD. This is more of a historical debate than intellectual argument. There is no dought here that the probability is rather high that GM has said that he was a GOD. All one needs is a bit of logic and some deduction to arrive at this. EV apologetic approach is really irrelevant here. The other two argument follow en suit.

But why is EV coming up with these rebottles?

Before answering, look at the other kind of truth that EV propones. This is regarding the truth that is not on their FAQ anymore. It is hard to speak about something that does not exists, ofcourse I am referring to the information that EV has recently deleted regarding the “unacceptable” behavior of some of their “retired” and “old” staff. This information as we all know concerned a case(s) of child molestation that was committed by a so-called “mahatma”.

The deletion of this information has been timed exactly with events that has been taking place recently, in particular to recent posts on the ex-premie F5 forum. Why?

Considering that EV’s FAQ is place where EV defines it’s formal policy and practices, then it is safe to say that the response from EV regarding the child molestation issue is (was) their official reply.

Now this is were things start getting more interesting because “official” means also an anchor or base. In other words, going back to the start of this post regarding the types of truth, there is a situation were EV can “officially” finds itself cornered into having to explain why EV official public reply contradicts with the factual evidence.

So the case goes like this.

EV denies any knowledge of any activities of such a behavior having ever occurred and that their investigation have reveled nothing.

The fact is that the victims have been in touch with EV and EV has not provided an answer even when EV was totally aware that the police have been informed.

Question: why did EV remove the information of their site?

Answer: (possible) threat of the consequences of legal action.

I have no dought that this action was not carried out light heartedly, but only after a “board meeting” with there lawyers.

But the question still remains.

Has EV ever been aware of any mis-behavior?
Has EV ever covered any mis-behavior?
Is EV ever going to admitt to such behavior?
What is EV new policy on such behavior?

It seems that EV is dumb found and their board of directors is made of brain dead rag puppets that never had to make a decision without being instructed on how and when to do it.

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Date: Wed, Sep 27, 2000 at 22:58:32 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: Two types of truth.
Message:
There are two types of truth Salam.

There is the one big Truth- eternal, internal, revealed on DVD by the Perfect Master, and then there's lots of other little truths, which aren't really important when you put them next to the great big Truth.

..vomit puke bark chunder retch heave Anth the throwing up.

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Date: Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 00:17:48 (GMT)
From: Gordon Showcase
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Two types of Anth
Message:
There's the type who is the ex-premie who writes funny posts here and then there is the premie Anth, who is just waiting for the right moment to return to the fold.

Phase 4 is just around the corner. We'll see you there.

You can laugh but you'll laugh on the other sides of your faces when Maharaji reveals his true power to the world. Maybe that won't be until phase 5 though.

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Date: Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 10:53:41 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Gordon Showcase
Subject: What were the other phases?
Message:
That is phase 1,2,3?

Am I missing something here?

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Date: Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 06:27:44 (GMT)
From: ExTex
Email: None
To: Gordon Showcase
Subject: Two types of Anth
Message:
You are quite a kidder, Jocko. No end to your highjinks and witty jokes. Your cracking me up! Phase 4...phase 5...Har Har Har More like PHASED OUT!!!

With a mind like yours it is a wonder you can even feed yourself!

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Date: Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 04:52:11 (GMT)
From: Captain Pugwash
Email: None
To: Gordon Showcase
Subject: Hey you're here too Gordy!!
Message:
Well well well me lad. I gots a warm feeling in me heart when I saw you pop into AG. SO here you are, still bopping along in the cult. Well well well.

Hey nice poem on ELK BTW, maybe I should share it with the folks here;);)

Anth, you know who this is don't you? Yeah, you do. I've seen you two share satsang loads of times. Now there's a boy who's arse is so tight his farts come out at 50 psi. Lovely lad. An example to us all, a true dyed-in-the-wool premie.

Now wot's this about Phase 5???? Revealing his true power huh? Well you just hang in there Gordy old son, and be sure to pop in here when it happens.

Byeeeee.

Cap'n P.

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Date: Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 13:32:58 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: anthginn@yahoo.com
To: Captain Pugwash
Subject: I want the dirt Capn'
Message:
Captain Pugwash, spill the beans. Email me the dirt. Who is it?

(and you can tell me your secret identity too if you like.)

Anth the Smee

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Date: Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 19:01:14 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: check details on AG..nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 18:02:28 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Gordon Showcase
Subject: May I quote you on this one?
Message:
Gordon, this is priceless:
.
.
'You can laugh but you'll laugh on the other sides of your faces

when Maharaji reveals his true power to the world.

Maybe that won't be until phase 5 though'.

.
.
.
.
Is this just your own idea, or is it current 'thinking' among premies?
.
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Date: Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 09:17:05 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Gordon Showcase
Subject: Maybe I'll be the first...
Message:
...to return, out of the 38,000 British premies who quit.

Anth the divine boomerang

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Date: Wed, Sep 27, 2000 at 19:55:35 (GMT)
From: Yves
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: What was your first question?
Message:
Altough EV will never admit, they will be forced to face the fact they knew and covered it. There is enough evidences around, given time hasn't run out yet for liabilities to be enforced, given a day in court, they won't be able to run away.

As for the 'divine issue', it is central and can be argued and established. Rawat pretended to be divine and acted with individual as if he was. This had tremendous consequences for which he is liable. It is as simple as that.

On the EV site, on a film clip, he says he never said he was the messiah or a prophet except during the 70's and the 80's. How's that for a denial?

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Date: Wed, Sep 27, 2000 at 18:20:26 (GMT)
From: Way
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Janice Wilson gets excited in bed
Message:
Janice Wilson, top contributor to ELK, posts this to the 'Days with Knowledge section,' for Sept. 25, 2000. It is entitled 'Excited' and ends with:

'You are right, Maharaji, I can't possibly want more! As I lay in bed with my greatest companion, my breath, enjoying, feeling how grateful I am for this gift of knowing how to be.'

Now this girl is definitely getting something out of Knowledge that I somehow failed to grasp. Now I'm not totally immune to 'self-discovery' in bed, but my breath just never did much for me in that department!

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Date: Wed, Sep 27, 2000 at 22:54:43 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: You don't get it Way.
Message:
She's laying in bed with a blow-up doll, which she blew up herself- hence her greatest companion is her breath.

Anth the blow up mammal

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Date: Wed, Sep 27, 2000 at 19:46:24 (GMT)
From: Pauline Premie
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: You are so crude..
Message:
Way, you really lack that understanding, and probably never had that experience that Janice Wilson is talking about when she said:

'You are right, Maharaji, I can't possibly want more! As I lay in bed with my greatest companion, my breath, enjoying, feeling how grateful I am for this gift of knowing how to be.'

It's true for me, too. Sometimes when I am in bed with my greatest companion, I suddenly realize how much I am enjoying the feeling when my greatest companion is within inside of me and I really enjoy that feeling, going faster and faster, more and more, and it is such a gift. This joy and feeling is what makes my companion so great.

In fact, my greatest companion is just so powerful, especially when I feel the gift my companion gives me because my companion is inside of me. It's just so massive and powerful. When that happens I, like Janice, cannot possibly want more! I explode with joy and satisfaction. It is such a gift, for which I am grateful.

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Date: Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 04:21:45 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: drek@oz.net
To: Pauline Premie
Subject: Uh, excuse me, Pauline, but...
Message:
I'm trying to help your fellow premie or brother TED Farkel contain his carnal desires that he has for you and Janice Wilson.

Your post, Pauline, whether you realize it or not is rather, um, shall we say, erotic?

I imagine that you will counter by saying that I am in my mind and I don't really understand (as in stand under), but I do understand, Pauline. I really do understand. In fact, I'm going to have to just turn down the lights and close my eyes for a few minutes so that I can compose myself.

Fortunately, it looks like TED Farkel has not yet noticed your post, Pauline. I fear that he may misinterpret it and take it the wrong way as some of the others here might have done. But, if TED Farkel contacts you can you please be gentle with him? He's very new at all of this and I think that we all want to do what is best for him.

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Date: Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 19:55:59 (GMT)
From: Pauline Premie
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: You are in your mind....
Message:
You are a confused ex-premie who is lacking in understanding.

I know who Ted Farkel is. He lived for 13 years in the ashram and has never been able to approach a woman ever since. He's one of those premies stuck in the 70s, and I think he isn't completely clear. And I hardly ever have sex with a premie who isn't completely clear, or at least I hold out for quite a while before I do. I DO have my standards, you know.

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Date: Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 20:47:47 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: drek@oz.net
To: Pauline Premie
Subject: This is a Service opportunity, Pauline
Message:
This is so perfect. So, so beautiful, Pauline.

Do you live anywhere near Mobile, Alabama? It's really quite beautiful, you know.

TED, in my opinion, is a really, really beautiful brother who is having some problems with Knowledge. I was thinking that you, being so clear and all, could help TED out.

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Date: Wed, Sep 27, 2000 at 23:53:24 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Pauline Premie
Subject: Pauline, you're a hoot. (nt)
Message:
honk honk
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Date: Wed, Sep 27, 2000 at 18:33:28 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: and shthees only thixteen?
Message:
thorry about that ...

But, yeah, she's right, doncha know? Breathing IS one hell of a good buzz, when you get into it (and I DO mean just breathing, ... like feeling it going in and out - without any fancy mantras or hyperventilation techniques on top).

The only thing that puzzles me, (not greatly, since I fell for it too), is this:

WHY should it be that the person who reminds us of the simple fact that breathing (- pranayama if you want the fancy Hindu term for it) - feels good - WHY should he/she suddenly be elevated to the status of 'Master'/guru/messiah ... ???

'It's simple' the Maha has always said. 'it's inside of you'

And somehow, he's managed to live the life of Reilly, with people running up to kiss his feet and hand over the contents of their pay-checks to him, as a consequence.

What's his secret?

Any ideas, anyone?

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Date: Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 03:47:07 (GMT)
From: Orgasm?
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: must be that (nt)
Message:
NT
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Date: Wed, Sep 27, 2000 at 18:30:42 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: Very funny
Message:
What can I say. You should try i for a change. Have you tried asking Ms Wilson?
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Date: Wed, Sep 27, 2000 at 17:02:25 (GMT)
From: Yves
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Whaddo you get when you look for Gylanix on Yahoo?
Message:
Gylanix is the business consultant advisor own by Michael Dettners. Yahoo gives Roger's House of Maharaji Drek and a list of Gylanix business partners.

Yahoo partner!

I haven't been on Alta Vista yet. I agreed to clam down a little and let Michael act in a decent fashion as if he was doing it with class.

Class. I'm curious to know if a flim-flam bogus university which sells diplomas on the web has any classes.

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Date: Wed, Sep 27, 2000 at 23:27:13 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Yves
Subject: Hey, I need a degree...
Message:
...and so does one of my sons. How much are they and what's the URL.

Anth, finally ready to finish his education.

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Date: Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 13:55:18 (GMT)
From: Yves
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Get info from Drek site
Message:
http://kw.edu/

http://www.oz.net/~drek/#where

where are they now...
Micheal Dettmers...
Where he got his degree from.

Maybe it is legitimate, but they don't want californians to buy degrees there. Guess why.

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Date: Wed, Sep 27, 2000 at 17:53:03 (GMT)
From: Yves
Email: None
To: Yves
Subject: Whaddo you get when you look for Gylanix on Yahoo?
Message:
'What trick, what device, what starting-hole canst thou now find out, to hide thee from this open and apparent shame?'

Henry IV

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Date: Wed, Sep 27, 2000 at 02:12:17 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: An e-mail to EV
Message:
dear sir/madam,

i like to congradulate you on your site.

it is so beautiful.

i have noticed the entry under faq regarding the cult issue.

can you please explain to me why do those nasty non premies acccus you like this.?

i mean i really think you are ok doing all these good thing, like telling people

about who they are and how to meditate and stuff like that.

i also want to say something, but i am a bit shy you know.

i am a bit broke, so i am looking for a bit of dosh, so what i want
to say if there is some part time work I can do, you know. i am good at
designing web sites and i know a bit about programming and networks
so if you can help me i will tell all my friends about you and
make sure to bash all those nasty non premies.

thank you

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Date: Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 22:49:42 (GMT)
From: Captain Pugwash
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Pssst - wanna participate in a Survey?
Message:
Hot off the EV Press:

'Preparation for an international event at Amaroo (Ivory Rock's Conference Centre) for April 2001 are well underway. This will be a chance for us to spend four or five days with Maharaji in the beautiful environment of Amaroo.

The focus of these preparations has been to complete more of the permanent facilities required for this and future events, so that international events can take place on a regular bases, without the reliance on the high cost of temporary facilities.

These new facilities include expanded campgrounds with permanent quality bathrooms, improvements to the Amphitheatre, outdoor eating areas and much more.

The registration contribution and on-site accommodation fee will be set at a level to help cover some of the costs associated with providing these facilities.

By attending this event you will be participating in the development of Amaroo to provide the opportunity for many more future events with Maharaji.

The purpose of the questionnaire is to give an indication of the numbers we can expect to attend this event. There will be a limited number of places and a limited amount of onsite accommodation due to the size of Amaroo. The information you provide will help to plan the event and to make crucial
decisions regarding budgets, projects and permanent facilities.

To complete the questionnaire, please follow the instructions below.

Thank you for participating in this questionnaire and contributing to making Amaroo 2001 a landmark event.

Go to: Survey
Please click this link now (or go online and retype the address into your Web browser). If you do not want to take this or other surveys, please click 'reply' and
ask the survey creator to remove you from the email list.

Zoomerang is a survey clearinghouse. We do not censor the questions or messages in the surveys or the invitations to take surveys that third parties may propound, nor do we censor the responses you may provide. The sender of a survey is solely responsible for the subject matter and contents of the survey invitation and survey in which you participate, and you are
solely responsible for the contents of your response.

According to Zoomerang's Terms of Agreement, survey senders promise that they have an ongoing business or personal relationship or they've obtained consent to send emails to survey recipients. Please send questions to
abuse@zoomerang.com.'

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Date: Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 02:42:59 (GMT)
From: Tonette
Email: None
To: Captain Pugwash
Subject: Any reason why we shouldn't stuff this
Message:
ballot box? It really only takes a few seconds. I,of course want the luxury accomodations
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Date: Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 04:10:30 (GMT)
From: Captain Pugwash
Email: None
To: Tonette
Subject: One reason
Message:
Denial of Service attack.

Don't give em any excuses!!!!

Cap'n P.

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Date: Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 06:27:27 (GMT)
From: Tonette
Email: None
To: Captain Pugwash
Subject: What? Sorry that went right over
Message:
my head. Denial of service? As in ISP or as in 'serving the lord?' Would you spell it out a little more please?
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Date: Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 14:58:09 (GMT)
From: Yves
Email: None
To: Captain Pugwash
Subject: It reminds me of the fake surveys we had in 1975
Message:
Instead of doing door-to-door Jehovah-fashion propagation and conduct a door-to-door fake survey about peace of mind.

On a scale of 1 to 10 with 1 for 'not at all' and 10 as 'excellent', how would you rate your ability to relax?

Results were irrelevant. It was a pretext for satsang.

Are they interested in answer or in the list of participants?

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Date: Wed, Sep 27, 2000 at 23:07:21 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Captain Pugwash
Subject: That was fun
Message:
Thanks Captain. That was fun. I told them I was likely to attend, didn't mind paying $450 registration or $1300 camping fee, wanted super-luxury accomodation, and would rather not pay in installments.

Anth the kangeroo

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Date: Wed, Sep 27, 2000 at 00:25:27 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Captain Pugwash
Subject: Pssst - wanna participate in a Survey?
Message:
Thanks for that info. been looking for it. Also can you tell mem were you got this part from. I am looking for the original document.

'Preparation for an international event at Amaroo (Ivory Rock's Conference Centre) for April 2001 are well underway. This will be a chance for us to spend four or five days with Maharaji in the beautiful environment of Amaroo.

The focus of these preparations has been to complete more of the permanent facilities required for this and future events, so that international events can take place on a regular bases, without the reliance on the high cost of temporary facilities.

These new facilities include expanded campgrounds with permanent quality bathrooms, improvements to the Amphitheatre, outdoor eating areas and much more.

The registration contribution and on-site accommodation fee will be set at a level to help cover some of the costs associated with providing these facilities.

By attending this event you will be participating in the development of Amaroo to provide the opportunity for many more future events with Maharaji.

The purpose of the questionnaire is to give an indication of the numbers we can expect to attend this event. There will be a limited number of places and a limited amount of onsite accommodation due to the size of Amaroo. The information you provide will help to plan the event and to make crucial
decisions regarding budgets, projects and permanent facilities.

To complete the questionnaire, please follow the instructions below.

Thank you for participating in this questionnaire and contributing to making Amaroo 2001 a landmark event.

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Date: Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 21:23:27 (GMT)
From: suchabanana
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: OUR Knowledge -- REVOLUTION for the Love of It!!!
Message:
Last night I focussed my attention within and watched the beautiful golden doughnut (aka 3rd eye) -- and had a revelation. Here's the thread:

First of all, whatever we experience within us is ours -- it's our knowledge, not the property or inheritance of anyone else. It's our birthright -- whether we're aware of it, or not.

If someone comes along and shows us something that's already there within us, is it theirs, or their gift? No. Perhaps their showing us might be a gift -- but only if there are absolutely no strings attached. Now there's the rub, folks. A gift is not a gift, if there are strings attached.

I clearly remember Fakiranand saying (at my knowledge session), 'If you have millions, give millions.' Who instructed the mahatmas and instructors to direct money, gifts and devotion to M., in return for the Knowledge.

This is 'not a religion, right?' So, why the pledge of allegiance and bowing to M., then, that was required of us?

As I have tried to demonstrate in my recent postings, this Knowledge has been around as long as there have been human beings -- definitely throughout the course of recorded human history. Every time people have learned it and started practicing it, however, somebody tries to take worldly control of it. This control trip manifests in various forms:
1. They start a religion and then gradually pile on crap that accumulates and obliterates the Knowledge itself; or,
2. They eventually label the Knowledge a dangerous heresy and suppress it, along with its practitioners; or,
3. They claim exclusive dominion over the Knowledge and/or its teaching, limit intitiates to those who submit to their authority, particular doctrine and head-trip, and assume a tightly held position of control over its dissemination and practitioners.

If you study recorded history, you'll notice that the long-suppressed eyewitness accounts of Buddha and Jesus don't talk about exclusivity or them claiming to be the only begotten Sons of God, etc. These accounts also speak about the Knowledge being shared and not being hoarded by anyone. They advise people to look within themselves for guidance -- and not to some worldly authority or organization that presumes to dictate the Knowledge (Greek = gnosis) -- a keeper of the key.

Now, if we review the history of the Radhasoami tradition, we notice that the Sikh gurus took the Knowledge and then restricted it -- by gender and by caste -- and passed the reins of command onto their own male children (like a worldly inheritance).

'The Giver and the Gift'?: Let's look at the DLM history a bit: in fact, this Knowledge has been given with strings attached -- devotion to M. and a corresponding material return on the investment of spreading the Knowledge -- $$$$$$$$, and a seemingly insatiable appetite for toys and perquisites. If this is really a gift, then why the expectation of devotion to an individual (not to God itself [or the primal energy, if you don't like the word 'God'])? Gratitude and appreciation -- to whom or to what? No, our real gratitude and (the teacher's gratitude) should be properly directed to that same energy of Life itself.

Like many people, I saw inner light a long long time before I ever heard of M. So, where should I direct that gratitude? To him? No, but to the source of that Light itself.

When Knowledge began spreading in the early 1970s, it was revolutionary -- hippies and radicals coming for the source of peace and love. The guru trip seemed weird, but people went along with it because of the Knowledge experience itself -- and the apocalptic head-trips and concepts they were constantly fed by the organization (DLM) in propaganda like 'Who is Guru Maharaj ji?' (book and movie), arti, cult-speak, and the Millenium spectacle, etc. [Incidentally, I sat on that stage for 3 days at Millenium -- and distinctly recall a Holy Family Oratorio -- 'Bal Bhagwan ji is ..., Bole ji is dance, and Raja ji was born to be king, but Sant ji Maharaj', etc.] The whole trip in the West was pushed toward this hybrid Judeo-Christian concept of the messiah and the approaching millenium, etc. It fed into a lot of people's already socialized concepts of salvation -- but with a heavy Indian slant.

The ashrams and premie houses were communal and the premies practiced Knowledge -- kind of like Essene communities or the Buddhist sannyasins (bikkhus). But the resemblance ended there, with the constantly reinforced central focus on the Perfect Master, the Living Lord, the Satguru, the Lotus Feet, darshan, prashad, etc. Buddha himself said that a person stopped being a disciple of the Truth when they pretended to have 'superhuman' status -- above other human beings. What was presented to us, brothers and sisters?

The ashram premies (and others) devoted their lives and money to M. and his mission. What happened? In the 1980s, they got sold out and turned out on the street as expendable, after sacrificing chunks of their lives to him. Health plans, retirement homes for ashram premies? -- not on your life!

When some so-called mahatmas bashed people over the heads and raped little girls, or used their positions to take sexual advantage of premie women, what was the official response? Was it the Company of Truth -- or a Coverup (get him out of the country fast, hush hush)?

US President Harry Truman once said, 'The buck stops here.' So, as people kept passing the buck on all these matters, where did the buck really stop at DLM/EVI -- who's personally in charge, after all? Reagan: 'I don't recall...'

Meanwhile, who got richer, and richer, and richer?
'The Giver and the Gift', huh, or 'the Smuggler.' Who gave what to whom?

In the '70s, more and more people got Knowledge, and premies became experienced in both the practice of Knowledge and talking about it (satsang). Lots of people were becoming qualified to be instructors of this Knowledge. Now, think about this, for a moment: if this Knowledge is already within us, and M. is just showing what's already there (as it's supposedly presented now), if thousands of people are actually qualified (from their experience) to speak about Knowledge -- and, logically, teach the techniques, too -- then where would that eventually leave the concept of 'The Master'? Out the door, right? Bingo! No more gravy train.

Tota Puri (Ramakrishna's guru) said that 'devotion' was unnecessary to attain the highest levels of enlightenment and consciousness.

You see, Knowledge was spreading around the world; it could have gotten out of control -- whose control? This Knowledge could already have spread organically to tens of millions of people -- if someone hadn't reined in the whole shebang. Who was that person? Now, who did that actually serve? Then, to accomodate the West, the teachings got changed into a business suit approach - how fitting. In retrospect, it was refreshing to get rid of most of the external trappings. Only, it should have gone all the way -- no more cult-speak, no more fearless leader worship. That would have served everyone, maybe even M. -- if he had only realized it. Because then, more people would have been truly grateful -- that he wasn't setting himself up above them anymore. He could still have been an inspiration perhaps, if the whole thing hadn't been such a freaky control trip, combined with a continuous fund-raising machine and deals that just perpetuated the exorbitant Rawat family lifestyles. [And he and his family could have lived a quieter, simpler, less complicated life. But, ego-wise and organizationally, how do you go from being the Lord of the Universe to the humble meditator guy next door?]

Television and radio shows could have helped spread this Knowledge (at no cost to premies) -- why did this stop in the '70s? Too many probing media questions about money, lifestyles of the rich and famous, the cult of personality worship, the family feud, organizational problems, etc.?

Instead, what happened? At local satsang, everyone was essentially an equal in the 1970s and early '80s. This changed to videos where only one person was permitted to speak about the Knowledge -- one person the constant focal point (like the numbing mantra of some Orwellian Big Brother on a screen). Why? Were we all, in fact, so stupid, spaced out, and full of concepts, after all, that we couldn't also speak about the experience of Knowledge itself? No, the only major baloney that got spoken at satsang was usually when people were talking about their concepts and the ridiculous baggage that they'd been fed through the cult's socialization. Also, what could be any more off-the- wall than m.'s own discourse on 'dung-beetles'? (Pasadena, 1991)

No, I maintain that it was the truth of people's actual experiences that drew lots of newcomers to Knowledge. In the West, were most new people attracted to worshipping a young fat guru and kissing his feet? Not. In the early years, thousands of people hardly actually heard M. himself until after they'd already received Knowledge (like me). So, it was the premies who personally taught people about Knowledge, not M. According to the official version, the premies were getting in the way. Logically, though, how could the devotees be getting in the way, if they were the ones actively spreading the Knowledge and providing the financial means for the whole shebang? What an insult to the devotees. What a bunch of masochists -- gluttons for punishment and abuse -- we've been.

Additionally, how many premies sacrificed their families, their marriages, their kids, their other relationships, their careers, or their possessions -- for the sake of devotion to M.? I did, how about some of you?

What did He sacrifice? Did he sacrifice all his possessions for us, his family ties, his marriage bond, his career? The 'Holy Family' split up, yes -- but not out of sacrifice; it was a bitter legal fight for worldly control, and the spoils.

Yes, what happened to the equality of the experience of Knowledge, of a sense of community, of live joyful music at local programs, of people speaking from their own individual experiences? Taken away and destroyed. Just stare at the 2-dimensional face on the boob tube. Subscribe to those videos.

Even the local video programs of the last 10+ years have had their attendant expenses; too much overhead -- so, let's do info-mercials, huh? Satellite subscriptions ($50/month) -- the image on the tube direct to you.

You know, if you already have Knowledge and a functioning brain, the heresy of thinking for yourself (and evaluating) eventually kicks in. I mean, who needs these videos? Can't we practice Knowledge (like Buddha, Jesus, Ramakrishna did) without videos, on our own -- or even get together with like-minded people who enjoy meditating on some of the techniques and sharing a bit -- without any of the cult-speak, the cult concepts, the cult organization, the guilt trips, the never-ending emotional extortion for donations? Yep, I think so, my brothers and sisters.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
HOW ABOUT THIS, FOR A CHANGE: A GRASS-ROOTS KNOWLEDGE REVOLUTION For those of us who still like practicing (any of) the actual meditation techniques, I propose the following:

* a whole global network of websites for positive sharing and inspiration, and mutual respect; (how inter-active were those droning videos, after all?!)

* absolute, total equality of all practitioners of Knowledge; no gurus, no mahatmas, no priests, no ministers, no officers -- just human beings.

* linked information about the Knowledge on these websites, incl diagrams, instructions, and e-mail contacts for new people with questions; live streaming of informative Knowledge discussions, and sharing from direct experience. Responsibly done, Knowledge can be transmitted over the internet -- to the whole human race, with no strings attached. (After all, M. does it with a vcr.)

* a pledge that none of us will ever accept so much as a penny, lire, rupee, ruble, peso, franc, mark, etc. for any personal expenses that we may incur in presenting the Knowledge to the human race. Any flagrant violators would be booted off the network and shunned. [No donations for Knowledge courses, seminars, either]

* continue our own personal contacts and explanation of Knowledge, whenever it feels right to us (no cult stuff, no idol worship, no charismatic honchos, just an inner experience of life), using the understanding we've gained.

Yes, I actually believe that this Knowledge could be spread properly and very fast around the world -- based on a conscientious network of mutual respect, equality, unselfishness, intelligence, and especially Truth -- for a change.

Yeah, I understand that there are probably many people who come to this particular website who won't share my vision. Fine, to each their own-- live and let live.

But some of us continue to enjoy the benefits of practicing the actual techniques -- and having a network or support group of other human beings can be a healthy thing in this life.

Through the consequence of his own actions, M. has effectively become m. -- but the K. remains the same.

Whose knowledge is this now? It's within each of us already. Whose knowledge is this now? Its source is our very life force. Whose knowledge is this now? OUR Knowledge!

Peace

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Date: Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 21:36:22 (GMT)
From: suchabanana
Email: None
To: all
Subject: OUR Knowledge - last paragraph - (corrected typos)
Message:
* linked information about the Knowledge on these websites, includin diagrams, instructions, and e-mail contacts for new people with questions; live streaming of informative Knowledge discussions, and sharing from direct experience. Responsibly done, Knowledge can be transmitted over the internet -- to the whole human race, with no strings attached.

We can

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Date: Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 21:40:43 (GMT)
From: suchabanana
Email: None
To: all
Subject: OUR Knowledge - last paragraphs - (2nd try)
Message:
* linked information about the Knowledge on these websites, including diagrams, instructions, and e-mail contacts for new people with questions; live streaming of informative Knowledge discussions, and sharing from direct experience. Responsibly done, Knowledge can be transmitted over the internet -- to the whole human race, with no strings attached.

We can

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Date: Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 07:47:42 (GMT)
From: ExTex
Email: None
To: suchabanana
Subject: Hmmm, Interesting Proposal Hmmm. (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 07:54:07 (GMT)
From: ExTex
Email: None
To: suchabanana
Subject: PS- Aren't there already sites that do this? (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 17:30:24 (GMT)
From: suchabanana
Email: None
To: ExTex
Subject: Not very well (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 14:50:16 (GMT)
From: bill
Email: None
To: suchabanana
Subject: Suchie
Message:
Hi Suchie,
Boy are you on a roll
My first suggestion would be to come up with another name to call it. Also, which out of the 4 things do you actually do and think have value. I know of 2 that you would reccomend.
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Date: Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 19:52:30 (GMT)
From: suchabanana
Email: None
To: bill
Subject: r.e. fave techs
Message:
Bill,

I enjoy #1, 2, and 3! [The original techniques handed down for millenia: 1. inner Light, 2. Sounds (Music, Shabad, Nadi), and 3. Lifestream (Breath, Name, Word, SatNam, Sohung)] Interestingly, Hansa, which also means 'Swan,' is sohang backwards [in Hindi]

#4 = trad yogic exercise, but is also good for keeping one's proverbial foot out of mouth. some yogis even cut the muscle under the tongue to stretch it, so it can reach (not recommended). Nectar taste = rare for me; honestly, usually only in moments of humility or prayer to the inner energy.

I hear #2 all the time now (it's really quiet where I live -- but maybe I'm just becoming deaf to the outside world -- haha -- from listening to too much loud rock'n'roll way back when).

At night (w/ electric lights off), if I just close my eyes and focus, bingo -- there's the light (technique just intensifies it).

They all help me focus, increase my concentration generally, feel peace, revitalization.

Breath meditation is also good for health, blood pressure, fresh oxygen, correct breathing, calm, getting centered, combatting negative feelings or anxiety.

Light has also been good for tension headaches, too.
[point slightly above and between the eyebrows = acupressure point]

Sound - also good for shutting out noise from the outside world. even wearing 29 db foam earplugs helps. we get so much noise overload from the contemporary mechanized world. not recommended to wear earplugs around others, though -- hard to hear correctly, can cause miscommunications, and may be interpreted as rude by some.

Best,

da swami s.

PS Gnosis [Greek name for Knowledge. Early Christians practiced gnosis; later they were labeled Gnostics -- by the Roman empire's Church that went after them and persecuted them for not following the revised dogma that became Catholicism]

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Date: Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 18:38:35 (GMT)
From: Yves
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: When multiple sources leak the same info...
Message:
When multiple sources leak the same info, it is only fair to assume the rumor goes from 'unsubsistantiated' to 'stong'.

'More than one' ashram premies have reported canadian initiator Anne Johnson had made an attempt to seduce them. In one instance, depending on whether or not you are using a presidential definition of it, 'something sexual' happened. If you know Anne (I've got pictures of the gal for anyone who wants it) you'd assume she'd be the last initiator Rawat would have this kind of problem with. For the benefit of the discussion, let's imagine Julie Andrews as sister Maria in 'The sound of music' and you get half the picture.

More than once, ashram premies were reported to have slapped her to get her off their back. In another instance, she was reported thrown accross the room in the Lowther street Toronto ashram. Although this is not yet an Olympic discipline, given her light weight, chance are it would have to become a 'demonstration sport' first.

Years ago, throwing midgets across the room was popular in French discotheques. Someone tried to get it stopped but midgets protested for it and it continued.

Anne is now a laundry maid in Malibu.

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Date: Wed, Sep 27, 2000 at 23:34:01 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Yves
Subject: So what?
Message:
Hi Yves,

So what if she tried to seduce somebody?

Who cares?

I hope she succeeded at some point.

But really, what business is it of ours?

And throwing a small woman across a room is a much nastier thing to do than trying to get someone into bed with you. What were the names of the guys who were throwing her around?

Anth who thinks small is beautiful.

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Date: Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 06:44:50 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Sorry, Anth, I'm with Yves on this one
Message:
Anth,

If we're going to try to peel away the veneer then it's all got to come off. Initiators were emblems of chaste 'purity' and Anne, in particular, played that role to a 't'. Furthermore, she was extremely fervent in guilt-tripping premies who either couldn't or simply wouldn't follow course. Any hypocrisy of hers, or any other instructor/initiator/mahatma deserves a public airing.

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Date: Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 09:33:33 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Let the Morality Trials Begin.
Message:
Maybe we should draw up a list and have morality trials.

We could start by collating all the sexual partners of all the instructors, PAMs, National Co-ordinators. Maybe we should go into details about what everyones sexual preference is too. If anyone has any incriminating photos we could put them on the web.

Ashram premies were also symbols of chaste purity. When we've finished with the honchos we could start on them.

Anth who had a wank in the ashram once. Go on, put me on the list. I deserve it.

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Date: Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 07:54:12 (GMT)
From: Mili
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: SCANDALOUS!
Message:
Gosh. Unsuspecting chaste male ashram premies having been sexually harassed by fervent female initiatoress! I am shocked.

You guys really break me up sometimes.

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Date: Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 14:06:10 (GMT)
From: Yves
Email: None
To: Mili
Subject: Two standards
Message:
If it was okay for a gal in power to exchange body fluids with unwilling monks, why would anyone need to object to Trivinanand habit of raping housemothers?

If 'more than one' had to use physical force to get her off their back, doesn't it tell you something about the character. I won't name anyone, but take my word for it, given any normal situation, these folks lean towards sainthood as far as I know.

Anne is as obnoxious as I am most of the time. My problem is the DLM structure gave her power to abuse folks around her.

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Date: Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 09:35:03 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Mili
Subject: Sorry Jim, I'm with Mili on this one (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 16:55:27 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Why? Just because she's a woman?
Message:
Anth,

I didn't see any objections from Mili or you when I reported about Tejeshwaranand's sex life when he, of course, was supposedly an icon of celibate devotion. Did you think that that was Tej's personal business and none of ours?

What's the diff? I had a good relationship with Anne (platonic!) but I can't deny that she could be very, very heavy at times. Heavy in terms of extracting, cajoling and severly guilt-tripping premies to give it all up, including sex, for Maharaji. She was a fever-pitched leader and that's what she wanted to be.

I don't know how in the world you can think it's her own private business if, in spite of that public stance, she was just another girl who wants to have fun.

Please, put it all together for me. I can't.

As for Mili, well nothing's a big deal for him. Ideas like 'truth' or, it's converse, 'hypocrisy' mean nothing to him. He's far too new-age for that.

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Date: Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 20:38:34 (GMT)
From: Yves
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Has initiator interviewed in 1997 come out?
Message:
Has he/she revealed his/her identity?
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Date: Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 19:02:13 (GMT)
From: Yep
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Two things
Message:
What's the line with Tadji?

Was that conversation with Rajaji we spoke about ever reported here?

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Date: Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 18:30:18 (GMT)
From: Yo
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Jim, let me reveal your true nature before all
Message:
http://us.imdb.com/Title?0053902

That may explain why it's never loose enough for you to lose it.

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Date: Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 18:26:14 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Why? Just because she's a woman?
Message:
I didn't read anything about Tejeshwaranand's sex life here Jim.

But I believe that whatever happens between two consenting adults is their own business, and doesn't need airing in public, where there's always an audience for titillating gossip.

I think your justification that she was some icon of purity in the cult and that this justifies a third or fourth hand account of how she supposedly tried to seduce someone (who ended up throwing her against a wall) is stretching things a bit thin.

And maybe she's not a particularly nice person- so what.

I think gossip about people's sex lives cheapens what happens on this site.

Anth who thought Mili was a man.

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Date: Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 22:01:19 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Who's a 'consenting adult' in a cult?
Message:
Anth,

Sorry, I'm really not with you here. Wasn't celibacy one of the big, ugly repressive elements of ashram life? Yes, of course it was.

So wouldn't the hypocritical uncelibate activities of some of the cult leaders be significant? Yes, to me it would.

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Date: Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 11:22:10 (GMT)
From: Steve
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Cult leader (s) ?
Message:
Jim ,

You refer to Anne as one of the cult leaders. To my way of thinking there is only one cult leader and thereafter only cult victims. If one stays in the cult long enough , has the suitable credentials and fills in a form then it's more than possible to end up in the hierarchy.

I saw Anne J as a too fanatical cult member. Whatever she had gone into she would have been ott. That was her personality. In fact if she was an ex premie on this forum she would likely be an exremist in the other direction !

Steve

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Date: Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 13:50:04 (GMT)
From: Yves
Email: None
To: Steve
Subject: We're not duscussing her profile here
Message:
We're discussing an abuser-friendly organization.
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Date: Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 14:10:56 (GMT)
From: Steve
Email: None
To: Yves
Subject: Yves , hypocricy is a very common human trait-
Message:
How would you have reacted to her sexual advances? Did you ever make sexual advances to premie ladies under the guise of satsang or 'heart connection' ? I think that a little compassion for people and their inability to live up to their own too high standards is desirable here.

Let he who has not sinned cast the first stone -- chucking them yet?

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Date: Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 16:44:05 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Steve
Subject: All the hypocrisy shld be revealed
Message:
Steve,

If Anne, or any other purported 'example' of devotion-on-a-stick, was a hypocrite about these matters, it should all come out. And yes, that goes for each of us to the extent that we played along. I was a hypocrite in the end of my ashram days. I started getting interested in girls and started fooling around with one, then another. So I'm fair game too. If I stood up for the cult still today, it'd be completely fair and reasonable, in my opinion, for someone to point out how I was only paying lip service to the ashram vows then. It says something important about the entire trip.

But Anne is a much clearer case than I could ever be because Anne ran around saying, essentially, 'Look at me! Look at me! I'm a devotee and this is what it's all about. You have to give up everything for Maharaji; anything less isn't real.'

Okay, Anne, we're looking......

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Date: Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 19:40:48 (GMT)
From: Yves
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: This isn't a fourth hand account by the way
Message:
I personally was told by all these folks. Jim knows everyone of them and could email them to verify (altough he's not in talking terms with one of them). To pretend it is some rumor going back beyond the three worlds is as unfair as having Anne thrown naked against a brick wall in the middle of winter.
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Date: Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 19:23:41 (GMT)
From: Yo
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Sexuality and sect are both strong on abuse
Message:
Abusers benefit from abusive stuctures. This organization is abusive. By revealing abuses we are aware of, my bet is to also reveal the abusive naure of the organization and its leader.

We have a tendency, when we get mixed-up between one's sexuality and abuse to consider it all as private. Abusers use it as a strategy to keep the lid down. By becoming a 'gift of love' a financial abuse enters the realm of privacy and becomes ligitimate. I refuse to shut-up.

Say some high ranking EV official was as gay as a flower in may and had, if he wanted to climb the ladder to where he is today, marry to keep-up appearances. Wouldn't you agree this is ligitimate and private as well as very abusive thing to impose from the cult? If that ever happened, should I talk about it (Names omitted; I don't beleive in 'outing' anyone) or just shut-up and let this go unoticed.

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Date: Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 18:58:37 (GMT)
From: Yves
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Hold it right there.
Message:
First. Whoever threw her around didn't throw her against the wall nor did he hurt her in any manner.

Second. This person isn't one of those she exanged body fluids with.

Third. I didn't bring this up because Anne's personality is in question but because she abused the position of authority she benefited from as well as the DLM structure which gave her the possibility to do so. That being said, I'd tend to be forgiving given no damage to victims I spoke to was done. That's just the way it is with us guys. Others may say otherwise, but I don't know of it.

Fourth and last. We have a tendency to get mixed-up between healthy sexuality and domination-abuse.

FOR EXAMPLE? Rape is not into the realm of sexuality but an act of aggression linked to power and domination. It is therefore highly objectionable.

In this case, when Anne wants healthy sex but don't want to bother with getting tangled into a relationship, I'd rather have her look elswhere than into the sect where she plays a role of authoity. The same goes for doctors with patient and teachers with adult students.

As for the rest, she may have all the sex she wants wether or not she once played it big on guilt.

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Date: Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 17:21:56 (GMT)
From: Yves
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Quote of the day
Message:
'The only tie you need to have with your family is the tie they gave you for Christmas.'

Guru Maharaj ji

'This is not a sect.'

Guru Maharaj ji

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Date: Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 15:53:18 (GMT)
From: shp
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: settling up on recent threads and posts
Message:
I came online and shared something I experienced in my travels.
It was immediately taken in the worst possible light and made into another piece of ex-premie propaganda.

Premies are doomed, alright...doomed if they come here and hope to have an open and fair conversation on this site. Yeah, I know what it says on the intro about 'some of us may bite you simply if you are a premie, but please understand you are welcome anyway to participate', to paraphrase your cover page. I don't harbor ill will towards any of you, so why do you have so much?

Since this seems to be a poor investment of time and energy based on the feedback, I will catch you all later perhaps. Maybe when we can talk more peacefully even if we disagree.

My God loves you as much as he loves me and encompasses you in his embrace as closely as I am held. I feel no special superiority or anything of the kind. I hope we all can reach a place where we can communicate in peace even if we don't see things the same way. Kindness costs nothing, empowers both the giver and the recipient, and still allows for a disagreement.
That's how I see it today.
The best to each,
shp

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Date: Wed, Sep 27, 2000 at 22:52:13 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: drek@oz.net
To: shp
Subject: Go fuck yourself, Preacher!
Message:
shp,

You are nothing but a snake in the grass. Always have been - always will be.

For a brief moment in time (a disguise, I think) you played like you were really questioning the validity of Maharaji.

However, that soon passed and you started to lay the satsang on us. And you continue to do that to this day. And you bitterly complain when we call you on it.

shp, you are a liar and a hypocrite. You might be able to get away with this kind of shit with yourself, but it ain't gonna work here. And it especially ain't gonna work here because we know you so well. Have you ever thought of using a different handle once in awhile in an effort to fool us into cutting you some slack. Nah, you wouldn't do that - you are far too ethical for that.

Shall I get out those lovely emails that you sent to me, shp?

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Date: Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 18:58:08 (GMT)
From: bill
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: Go fuck yourself, Preacher!
Message:
If it will show some truth, do it Drekmaster.
Sanford Pass thinks he engages us when he responds but really it is insults and smug condencension.
I wont read him anymore. What is the point?
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Date: Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 02:25:42 (GMT)
From: Elaine
Email: None
To: shp
Subject: Well in a sense he's right
Message:
shp,
Really do yourself a favor - leave this place. It is an unfriendly atmosphere and you are too good a person to spend time here. You're heart is good and then misinterpreted - turned into something it's not - ugly.

Go love and spread your wisdom and good heart where it is accepted.

The few that do accept you doesn't make it worth the abuse from the many that don't.

Love,
Elaine

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Date: Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 21:09:49 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: drek@oz.net
To: Elaine
Subject: Elaine, right about shp. His heart is good
Message:
Shp, speaking from the heart
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Date: Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 14:34:09 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Elaine
Subject: Your dildo run out of batteries, Elaine?
Message:
I'd say 'go fuck yourself' but obviously you'd need to run to K-Mart first...
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Date: Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 03:47:14 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Elaine
Subject: Get lost, Elaine
Message:
Elaine,

You're right. This isn't a very friendly place for new-age ninnies like you and Sanford Pass.

So why not just get lost?

Both of you have promised to split several times now but here you are. What's your problem?

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Date: Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 02:29:37 (GMT)
From: Elaine
Email: None
To: shp
Subject: Oh ,this was posted in the wrong place, sorry
Message:
It was supposed to have gone after Gerry's. Sorry for the confusion.
Hope you still catch my drift.
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Date: Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 12:09:30 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Elaine
Subject: Elaine, did you know there's a bird on your head?
Message:
If you look up it will fly away.

Anth the orneryologist

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Date: Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 03:55:01 (GMT)
From: mum
Email: None
To: Elaine
Subject: how are the tranquilesers and the booze elaine?
Message:
that you like and need.
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Date: Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 04:07:02 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: mum
Subject: now now...
Message:
Diazepam and alcohol were the unoffical supplements for the premie women I knew well. In fact it was a very devout follower who taught me how to score the drug in Mexico. It could be called the unofficial sarcrement/supplement of the 'experience'
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Date: Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 03:16:59 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: drek@oz.net
To: Elaine
Subject: Bullshit, ELAINE! You think you know what you are
Message:
talking about, but you don't. Or do you? Why don't you and shp start your own little forum and you can mollycoddle each other until you end up puking from all of the newage happy shining people crap that you both hand out.

Peace, Love, and Fuck You, too.

P.S. I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore!
P.P.S. I sick of all of this bullshp.

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Date: Wed, Sep 27, 2000 at 22:43:08 (GMT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: shp
Subject: You're not alone, Sandy
Message:
My God loves you as much as he loves me and encompasses you in his embrace as closely as I am held.

That's sweet, Sandy, and I'm sure you believe this and feel it's true in your life. So do these people.

Believers Crowd a Street, Seeking the Face of Mary
By ROBERT HANLEY

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Richard Perry/ The New York Times
Crowds have been gathering to pray the rosary at an apartment in Perth Amboy, N.J., where some say an image of the Virgin Mary appears in a window. Some of the visitors bring candles or bouquets of roses.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ERTH AMBOY, N.J., Sept. 26 — Not every pedestrian on Washington Street here sees an apparition of the Virgin Mary in the smudgy colored streaks of the thermal pane window.

But just as in the miracles frequently reported in small Southern towns, or the one that played out for months in a suburban yard in Marlboro, N.J., a few years back, none of the faithful here are demanding unanimity.

The streaks in the window, in Ramona and Marcelino Collado's second-floor apartment, started changing colors and producing an image last week, family members said, and the Collados' apartment was transformed into a religious shrine.

Today, hundreds of people came to their working-class, Hispanic neighborhood and stood in the rain, peering up at the window. Some squinted, struggling to discern an image that others, their lips moving in apparent prayer, had already perceived. Others climbed the stairs to the apartment and trooped through the Collados' kitchen and living room in soggy shoes to pay homage at the window.

Some knelt in the living room to pray beneath a large framed picture of Christ. Some said the rosary. Others walked to the window and pressed their hands to the glass. One elderly man rubbed a candle against it.

The Collado family welcomed all, most of them strangers. Some visitors brought candles that were placed on a table beneath the window. Others came with bouquets of roses.

Two teachers' aides on their lunch break from a local elementary school pressed their hands to the window and came away in silence.

'I think most want to believe, that's why we're here,' said one, Maria Tirado. 'It's very mystical. You just have to believe.'

Her colleague, Patricia DeFex, said: 'Anything is possible if you have faith. If it is true and you've touched it, you've touched something holy, like a relic.'

Jose Rivas, 32, of nearby Carteret, stood in the living room, clutching a crucifix attached to a gold chain. 'I find it to be breathtaking,' he said.

To the uninitiated, the living room window facing Washington Street seems nothing more than a blur of discoloration. The colors take on different hues, depending on the viewing angle from the sidewalk. From the right, the streaks have a reddish- orange tint; from the front, white and brown; and from the left, grayish-green with a flame-shaped trace of red in the lower left corner.

From indoors, the double-paned window exhibits none of the streakiness. It appears misty or covered with steam.

For now, the Roman Catholic Church is saying nothing about the window. Rayanne Damiano, a spokeswoman for the Diocese of Metuchen, which includes Perth Amboy, said the diocese had no official comment. She said the bishop, Vincent D. P. Breen and all diocesan priests were at a three-day retreat and not available for questions. They had left instructions, she said, not to discuss the window.

This afternoon, as visitors filled the family living room, the Collados' son-in-law, Felix Pratts, said that the window began changing colors last Tuesday or Wednesday. At first, he said, his wife, Isaura, thought her mother had put a religious picture in the window and it had somehow left an impression on the glass. But when she learned that nothing had been put in the window, she began thinking that the window bore an image of Mary and she began sharing those thoughts with neighbors.

Word spread fast through Perth Amboy and surrounding parts of Middlesex County. Strangers began turning up Friday, some with candles, to gaze at the window and pray. Crowds grew through the weekend, and the turnout Monday, which included film crews from New York television stations, was so large that the Perth Amboy police closed Washington Street to all vehicles from 1 to 8 p.m. The crowd was sparser in the rain today. But in the early afternoon, cars crept by, bumper to bumper, their occupants straining for a glimpse of the window. Four police officers kept onlookers and visitors behind barricades on either side of the street. Those eager to go upstairs lined up silently in the rain.

Some neighbors watched from front porches. They did not seem upset by all the strangers.

Michael Felicis, who lives next to the Collados, said: 'To us, it's not a problem. We're happy with this.'

Another neighbor, Vincent Alba, 71, said some people on the street were upset late last week, 'but now they're resigned to this.' He said he did not mind the commotion if some drew religious strength from it.

One of today's visitors, Laraine Colucci, 60, of North Plainfield, N.J., said she believed the window held the same image that Juan Diego, an Aztec convert to Christianity, saw in the hills outside Mexico City in 1531: the Virgin of Guadalupe.

Ms. Colucci said she was hospitalized by a stroke for seven days last year.

'It was through her intercession that I made a complete recovery,' she said. 'I have a tremendous amount of devotion and I wanted to be a part of this. I think there's a message that has to be brought to the people. Look at the way the world is going — God wants his people back.'

Like others who came today, Mr. Rivas, the visitor from Carteret, said he was struck that the window displayed colors from the outside and yet looked only misty from inside the apartment.

'I can vaguely see the Mother of Jesus from the outside and from the inside I can't see anything,' Mr. Rivas said. 'It's the first time in my whole life I've seen something like this.'

Another visitor, Thomas Connelly, a 48-year-old salesman of lab equipment, stopped by Washington Street while returning from a business trip to Manhattan. Mr. Connelly did not seem quite convinced. In 1992, he said, he had visited the Marlboro home that attracted thousands after the owner, Joseph Januszkiewicz, said Mary appeared near his backyard spruce trees on the first Sunday of each month.

'When I was there I got an emotional feeling and smelled the scent of roses,' he said after looking for minutes at the window. 'I don't get that same feeling I had in Marlboro. The window's very vivid in color, but I don't know what to look for. I can see kind of a face if I imagine it.'

So, what do you think, Sandy? Are they imagining things, or is their 'experience' real? We both know what they feel, but the question is, is the cause of those feelings real?

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Date: Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 17:11:01 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: shp
Subject: You have already tried this trick
Message:
That was a while ago, remember when you marched out of the door vowing not to come. Yet err u r.

So what do want to say? I was enjoying myself. No you spoil all the fun. We really love you shp. You seem to like being abused and you were making good light harted comments.
Now you are crying murder, come of it.

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Date: Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 16:06:41 (GMT)
From: Yves
Email: None
To: shp
Subject: Have you stopped beating your wife yet?
Message:
My favorite Bertrand Russell Quote:

«I wish to propose for the reader’s favourable consideration a doctrine which may, I fear, appear wildly paradoxical and subversive. The doctrine in question is this: that it is undesirable to believe a proposition when there is no ground whatever for supposing it true.»

Given that, would you be willing to explain the following statement:

'My God loves you as much as he loves me and encompasses you in his embrace as closely as I am held.'

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Date: Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 06:02:50 (GMT)
From: Scott T.
Email: None
To: Yves
Subject: eine kleine whine'
Message:
Yves:

No offense, but you don't have to be Bertrand Russell to state the obvious. I've heard Jim say cleverer things. (Can you tell that I don't think Russell ever wandered far from the obvious?) Anyway, as I see it SHP's regime went like this:

1. He looks for, and finds, a problem for his solution.
2. Others say either that the problem doesn't exist, or that his solution is the wrong one.
3. His lower lip droops.
4. He says, in effect, 'Take the solution anyway. It's all I've got.'
5. To which he gets a resounding: 'No thanks.'

Seems to me SHP is in a pickle. Maybe he should take cooking lessons.

--Scott

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Date: Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 16:17:47 (GMT)
From: shp
Email: None
To: Yves
Subject: reply to Yves
Message:
Yves said:
My favorite Bertrand Russell Quote:
«I wish to propose for the reader’s favourable consideration a doctrine which may, I fear, appear wildly paradoxical and subversive. The doctrine in question is this: that it is
undesirable to believe a proposition when there is no ground whatever for supposing it true.»
Given that, would you be willing to explain the following statement:
'My God loves you as much as he loves me and encompasses you in his embrace as closely as I am held.'

shp says:
You set up BR as the standard in your fantasy post, and tell me I am supposed to jump the bar. I'm not in your mental Olympics, I just simply wished everybody well and expressed the fact that I don't think I'm better than anybody here, and you missed the simple little rowboat it came in on. You are busy looking for submarines and dropping depth charges. I'm a lover, not a fighter, even intellectually quoting BR or anyone else.

So you want me to explain myself in the context of Bertrand Russell's mind just because that's your favorite quote? Talk about monkey traps...some things have no intellectual reason or rhyme, but they are still sincere and true. There, that's a favorite quote of mine. Deal with that.

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Date: Wed, Sep 27, 2000 at 18:42:04 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: shp
Subject: SLAP! that monkey ...
Message:
Shp says:

'I just simply wished everybody well and expressed the fact that I don't think I'm better than anybody here, ... I feel no special superiority or anything of the kind.'
.
.
.
cq says:

BULLSHIT!

Sandy, the whole guru/disciple trip is FOUNDED on one-upmanship (or 'one-uppersonship' for the non-sexists).

You put the 'master' on a level above you, (with a little help) and then YOU play the same games with those you deem 'lower' than yourself.

It's all one gigantic superiority/inferiority WANK!

Peace on you, too.

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Date: Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 03:34:25 (GMT)
From: shp
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: SPCA and shp say be kind to animals
Message:
Shp says:

'I just simply wished everybody well and expressed the fact that I don't think I'm better than anybody here, ... I feel no special superiority or anything of the kind.'

cq says:
BULLSHIT!

shp says:
Just because you play in the shallow end of the pool of understanding as to what a teacher-student relationship is all about, that does not mean there isn't a deeper understanding and reality to it than that which you can conceive.

cq says:
Sandy, the whole guru/disciple trip is FOUNDED on one-upmanship (or 'one-uppersonship' for the non-sexists).

shp says:
Spoken like one who has alot of ego to protect and feed. Maybe that's what you are into since it came out of the issue of your own heart through your own mouth. Maybe that warped read on the whole scene is what drove you away. I don't know and don't care. Doesn't make it so for everybody else. A person who has a failed relationship of any kind will most likely nix it universally in conversations with others. I know what up-ship is, and it can be played in any venue, not just the teacher-student realm. By the same token, there are higher roads that can be taken on the same journey that reveal a totally different view. That's my experience, not a concept.

cq:
You put the 'master' on a level above you, (with a little help) and then YOU play the same games with those you deem 'lower' than yourself.

shp says:
Now THAT is bullshit. I just love it when somebody starts telling me about me and why I do the things I do, especially someone as angry as you seem to be. Once again, maybe that's what you did with it, but that doesn't make it so for me or anyone else.

cq:
It's all one gigantic superiority/inferiority WANK!

shp says:
If that is how you feel, best wishes on your personal journey however you choose to travel. If that's all you got out of the experience with Maharaji - superior and inferior polarity - maybe deep down that's all you really put in. We don't need to be rocket scientists to understand other people, we just need to listen to what they are saying. It's really quite simple.

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Date: Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 17:47:13 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: shp
Subject: The reference wasn't to animals ...
Message:
... 'slapping the monkey' is a euphemism for masturbating.

That's what you're having here Sandy - a one-upmanship WANK!

You say you 'feel no special superiority' yet you describe me as 'playing in the shallow end of the pool of understanding'


Are you blind to what you're doing? Is your hypocrisy invisible to you? Can you not SEE that you're saying one thing then contradicting it by your actions?

And your jibe: 'spoken like one who has a lot of ego to protect and feed' - hoooo! if only you'd own up to having an ego yourself Sandy. AND respecting it.

So concepts are still a bad thing in premie-speak eh? Honestly, when are you going to question that old ... well, it's another concept isn't it?!

These twists and turns you take to try and defend the old 'anti-mind' propaganda. Really! You're just coming across as some kind of pseudo new-age sage -

well, sorry old mate, but to me it just sounds ... old and tired.

And pitifully self-deceiving.

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Date: Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 17:16:16 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: shp
Subject: Sheepy sheepy sheepy
Message:
Mr Love-Enlightenment-Spiritual Know it all says:

CQ 'plays in the shallow end of the pool,' ie, Chris is superficial and incapable of understanding the deep revelations Sandford Pass comprehends.

cq is 'angry' (well, duh!) therefore incapable of assessing the true master-cult member relationship as well as sheepy does.

And the kicker: cq's shallow understanding is because he didn't try hard or correctly enough !!! (If that's all you got out of the experience with Maharaji - superior and inferior polarity - maybe deep down that's all you really put in.)

We don't need to be rocket scientists to understand other people, we just need to listen to what they are saying.

How true, Sandy, how true.

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Date: Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 16:47:40 (GMT)
From: Yves
Email: None
To: shp
Subject: Am I missing something here?
Message:
'My God loves you as much as he loves me and encompasses you in his embrace as closely as I am held.'

Why would I need to be loved by 'your' god. If needed, I'd prefer my own imaginary god, giant rabbit or guardian angel. Beside, I don't want to be loved. I get my kicks with a S&M goddess with high heel boots, leather SS cap and handcuffs.

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Date: Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 17:15:41 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Yves
Subject: Can anyone join this religion Yves?
Message:
Anth the broad minded seeker of truth who likes to be tied up, tucked in, and read a bedtime story.
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Date: Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 17:56:07 (GMT)
From: Yves
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Religions, like library cards R not to be shared
Message:
Religions, like library cards R not to be shared. You make your own and leave Durga Ji alone. She's mine.
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Date: Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 18:03:53 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Yves
Subject: Who are the handcuffs for then?
Message:
Anth the prisoner of his own lunch-hour.
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Date: Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 18:42:01 (GMT)
From: Yves
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: shp. Show your hands. (NT)
Message:
NT
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Date: Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 16:03:00 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: shp
Subject: You're an asshole, plain and simple
Message:
You keep doing the same thing over and over, expecting different results and you keep getting the same result each time. You're nuts.
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Date: Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 13:52:49 (GMT)
From: Tim Matheson
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: LORD Maharaji's Agya for Shp
Message:
Last night, I had yet another beautiful Darshan Dream. In it, Lord Maharaji made it quite clear to me that HE would prefer HIS Devotee Shp not post here anymore. HE 'indicated' that Shp's time would be better spent in SERVICE to his Lord Maharaji. What was really beautiful was how HE even had a practical suggestion for Shp, i.e. get a part time job and donate all the money to Elan Vital to help in HIS work. What a wonderful opportunity LORD MAHARAJI has given to Shp!!
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Date: Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 14:49:49 (GMT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Tim Matheson
Subject: I had the same dream!
Message:
The only difference is that Maharaji wants shp to stop staring at strangers who are trapped in the maya. He wants shp to, instead, just be thankful that he has been awakened, and would prefer, instead, that shp gaze upon them with empathy and compassion, seeing as, due to the gift which he has received from the Bringer Of Peace, he no longer has to wallow in this valley of tears, himself. He is free, free, FREE! And his life is now filled with peace, love, and JOY! So he should stop frowning upon those who aren't. They just don't know any better, unlike shp, who is now so much wiser than they.
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Date: Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 16:41:20 (GMT)
From: Tonette
Email: None
To: Jerry and Tim
Subject: A little comic relief is just what the Master
Message:
ordered! hahahahaha!
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Date: Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 15:16:08 (GMT)
From: shp
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: your paints are muddy and so are Tim's
Message:
Your palate is so dirty that all the pictures you paint of premies are muddy. I am not the only one this happens to, I just happen to be here now.

I could be the nicest guy in the world, but if I claim to be a premie, there are elements here that will demonize me or anyone else who comes along.

You will take anything I or any premie says and twist it to meet your own needs to have a 'bad guy' who can be a surrogate punching bag in place of Maharaji.

Jim's wardog pups are growing up and sprouting their long teeth.
And he sits back and gloats. Premies may have their problems, but so does this little sub-culture. Neither is perfect by a long shot, but what do you offer in place of connecting with yourself inside? Or don't you need that anymore?

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Date: Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 06:55:22 (GMT)
From: ExTex
Email: None
To: shp
Subject: your paints are muddy and so are Tim's
Message:
Why do you and the other premies that come here not realise a very basic FACT! NOT OPINION! NOT ILLUSION! NOT MISTAKE! A VERY BASIC UNDENIABLE FACT!!!!

And that is quite simply that WE ALL HAVE KNOWLEDGE!
WE HAVE PRACTISED IT ALONG WITH ALL OF M'S DIRECTED REQUIREMENTS! WE HAVE BEEN DOWN THAT ROAD (IN MANY CASES BEFORE YOU AND LONGER THAN YOU!)

DON'T YOU GET IT? We have come to the realization that it is a BULLSHIT TRIP!! One could say YES WE HAVE REALISED THIS KNOWLEDGE! We realized that meditation is JUST what it is. An experience. But it is not the personal domain of Mr Rawat!

YES WE KNOW SOMETHING THAT YOU DO NOT KNOW! Something right under your nose! But you are holding on to your little trip and trying to convince yourself that it is us who are in the dark!

My friend, it is alright...we are telling you that the water is fine! Jump in. You can still meditate! You can still find peace! You can EXPAND YOUR HORIZON'S INFINITELY! You do not need Mr Rawat to guide you anywhere because there is no where to go....do your meditation. The only place Rawat is taking anyone is to the cleaners!
Don't you get it???

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Date: Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 03:41:44 (GMT)
From: shp
Email: None
To: ExTex
Subject: your paints are muddy and so are Tim's
Message:
So ExTex,

If you are realized and have gone beyond needing Maharaji as a live teacher, why do you malign him? Why not be grateful for whatever he did do that was good in your life and go on in peace? IF he revealed Knowledge to you, IF you realized it and moved on, why are you so angry at him? IF he truly took you to the cleaners and IF you are realized, then shouldn't you know why he did what he did and it was a lesson...and being realized you would KNOW what the lessons all were and would not be in such a quandry about the details of his personal life, etc. etc.
IF YOU WERE REALIZED IN THE KNOWLEDGE, IT WOULD ALL MAKE SENSE AND YOU WOULD BE AT PEACE WITH HIM AND WITH YOURSELF.

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Date: Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 06:56:04 (GMT)
From: ExTex
Email: None
To: shp
Subject: your paints are muddy and so are Tim's
Message:
Well you know something? I have never maligned him. I just have said what I believe to be the truth about him. Let the chips fall where they may. It is his doing! I calls 'em like I sees 'em. He is not helping anyone and never has! He is helping himself and always has been. He should be giving all that wealth to the needy if he had any compassion or love in him.

You know that the 4 techniques have been around forever. There is no God! The yogic tools are for fine tuning one's perception of reality. No labels or definitions about God or Satguru's or Christ's or 'inner perfection' need to be pasted on to add to the experience. The inner and outer worlds are both perfect and flawed...and that is all in keeping with law as it should be.

He did not give me the experience I have when/if I meditate! I had it before I was indoctrinated. He had some guy working for him pass on some tools that could be found from many sources. A slick con game.
What makes YOU ASSUME THAT I AM NOT AT PEACE WITH MYSELF? Very presumptuous of you. I am at peace with M too. He's a con artist and I am at peace with that.

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Date: Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 12:40:46 (GMT)
From: shp
Email: None
To: ExTex
Subject: your paints are muddy and so are Tim's
Message:
What makes YOU ASSUME THAT I AM NOT AT PEACE WITH MYSELF?
Very presumptuous of you. I am at peace with M too. He's a con artist and I am at peace with that. -ExTex

I accept your statement as being your truth. -shp

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Date: Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 03:56:50 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: shp
Subject: Shp, if you were here in person I'd laugh you out
Message:
of the room!

This is about as stupid as you get:

IF he truly took you to the cleaners and IF you are realized, then shouldn't you know why he did what he did and it was a lesson...and being realized you would KNOW what the lessons all were and would not be in such a quandry about the details of his personal life, etc. etc.

You're a new-age clown. Don't know how else to put it. Except that you're an idiot but that doesn't quite say it all that well. No, 'new-age clown' will have to do.

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Date: Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 04:07:57 (GMT)
From: shp
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: There you go again....
Message:
Next I suppose you are going to say that 'nobody wants to hear anything I have to say, yadda yadda yadda...and 'why don't I just go away'? But here and there you will toy around and ask me things like how many tie-dyed shirts do I have.

What a tease.

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Date: Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 06:13:36 (GMT)
From: Scott T.
Email: None
To: shp
Subject: your pants are muddy and so are yours
Message:
SHP:

You will take anything I or any premie says and twist it to meet your own needs to have a 'bad guy' who can be a surrogate punching bag in place of Maharaji.

The flaw in this ointment is that you always say the same thing, so how would you know whether 'anything' you say would be twisted? No variation = no valid inference.

--Scott

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Date: Wed, Sep 27, 2000 at 20:07:59 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: shp
Subject: and yours?
Message:
Shp, after I left the Maha, I joined up with the sannyasins. Remember them?

How's your palette as regards the ex-Bhagwan/Rajneesh/Osho people?

Unclouded?

Or can you see a resemblance in all the guru/disciple trips?

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Date: Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 03:48:44 (GMT)
From: shp
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: and yours?
Message:
cq said:
Shp, after I left the Maha, I joined up with the sannyasins. Remember them? How's your palette as regards the ex-Bhagwan/Rajneesh/Osho people? Unclouded? Or can you see a resemblance in all the guru/disciple trips?

shp says:
Honestly, I am not sure of whom you speak. I did hear about Rajneesh in Oregon and thathe passed away. I heard the mediaspeak about his cars and sex and land, etc.

As for guru-disciple 'trips', all I can say is that it all depends on the guru and the disciple. Very individual trip, most individual trip, not subject to any outside scrutiny if taken seriously. Some are fulfilling and some are not, depending on the sincerity and genuineness of both parties. There is no one-size-fits-all to yur question as I see it.

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Date: Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 19:46:23 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: shp
Subject: I have a serious question for you, Sanford Pass
Message:
How many tie-dyed shirts do you have?
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Date: Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 03:54:51 (GMT)
From: shp
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: I have a surprising answer for you, Jim Heller
Message:
jim said:
How many tie-dyed shirts do you have?

shp says:
One. It's a Grateful Dead t-shirt I recently got in a thrift shop. It's kind of getting a little hole-y in places on the back bottom, but the art was so cool I got it anyway for six bucks. It's got a graphic of a skeleton relaxing in a bed of roses observing a butterfly on the front and the same skeleton hanging out with the man in the moon on the back. Both scenes are surrounded by very nice tie-dyed blues and greens and greys.

How many three-piece suits and ties to match do you have?

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Date: Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 05:46:14 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: shp
Subject: I have a surprising answer for you, Jim Heller
Message:
none
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Date: Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 12:42:32 (GMT)
From: shp
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: I have a surprising answer for you, Jim Heller
Message:
OK, then how many tie-dyed shirts to YOU have?
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Date: Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 16:38:54 (GMT)
From: Tonette
Email: None
To: shp
Subject: Want to know why premies are suspect?
Message:
Because you are believers in and followers of Maharaji who happens to be an extrememly immoral and evil person. That's why I have absolutely NO RESPECT for any premie who chooses this path. A person following the teachings of M and thereby helping him, in his mission, is illustrating their character. Oh, M has done some really horrible things? That's okay, he's my Master anyway. What's that all about shp?
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Date: Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 18:53:19 (GMT)
From: shp
Email: None
To: Tonette
Subject: Want to know why premies are suspect?
Message:
Oh, M has done some really horrible things? That's okay, he's my Master anyway. What's that all about shp? -Tonette

OK, Tonette, make me a list of what you call the horrible things. -shp

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Date: Wed, Sep 27, 2000 at 20:14:10 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: shp
Subject: 'The horrible things'
Message:
Numero uno:

Claiming to be this ages' messianic incarnation of GOD.

(AND then denying that he claimed it).

That's not just 'horrible', Sandy.

That's IMMORAL.

(and what's more immoral than attempting to claim to be GOD and then denying that you ever made that claim?)

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Date: Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 16:30:41 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: shp
Subject: You've got a cockatoo on your head Sandy
Message:
Sandy, I agree completely with the sentiment in your first two paragraphs. Although it's not dirt in Jim and Jerry's palettes, it's old bird feathers.

Here's a true story.

My mother had a pet cockatoo. Two weeks ago there was a knock at the front door. She opened the door and had a conversation with a guy delivering something. She thanked him. He half turned to leave, then turned back to my mother and said, 'Did you know you've got a cockatoo standing on your head?'

She didn't know. She looked up, disturbed the cockatoo and it flew off to freedom (probably to be mugged by a flock of the local sparrows).

Sandy, there is something all premies have in common, no matter how nice they are. Every single one of them has a cockatoo standing on his or her head, and they don't know it.

This cockatoo is a dirty bird. It shits on your shoulder and causes all sorts of problems, but you can’t see it.

Nobody here hates you as a person Sandy. Most of us don’t even know you, or much about you. I don’t think anyone here wishes you ill. (Jim even gave you a cyber-hug the other day).

We just wish you’d knock that bloody cockatoo of your head.

It stops you thinking straight. It sits there squarking cult words, that have no meaning, like, Perfect Master,’ and ‘connect with yourself inside’ until you start repeating them yourself.

Just get rid of the bird, and clean the white stuff off your shoulders. (It’s not grace, its birdshit.)

Life will improve immediately. Try it and see.

Anth the Ornithologist

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Date: Wed, Sep 27, 2000 at 22:50:30 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Sandy
Subject: PS. The bird was her pet and often stood there-nt
Message:
Its name was Chrissy.
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Date: Wed, Sep 27, 2000 at 19:38:52 (GMT)
From: Birdwatcher to MI6
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: parrot-fashion, now, ... *BEST OF* J-M? (nt)
Message:
squawk?
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Date: Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 15:37:49 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: shp
Subject: Connecting Inside
Message:
Ah yes, the dichotomy: Inside/outside. It's an illusion, Sandy.

And even if a premie is the 'nicest guy in the world' he's still in a cult and he still feels like he has something special that others lack and need. This inevitably creates a feeling of superiority and separation.

This is not a sub-culture, but merely a website. Your cult could be called a sub-culture, I guess. It certainly is below the rest of culture.

I really didn't get the jibe towards Jim. Are you still craving his attention? I would suggest directing that obsession towards your family...

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Date: Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 16:05:41 (GMT)
From: shp
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Craving no one's attention here
Message:
I just know who and what I am dealing with and making pre-emptive comments. You know that is true. The obsession around here, if there is one, is the ex-premies having the need to attack anyone who comes here who may be deemed a 'premie', like open hunting season on deer or something.

You are people, I am people, no need for labels or walls. That's how I like to deal. But as soon as I come around here, the word goes out and the attacks begin, snowballing distortions of what I said become fodder for more attacks, the pileup begins, and there we are again. Seems like a losing proposition I have been trying to achieve, to have a peaceful and open conversation with you about 'anything and everything', as your intro advertises. Then the real agenda manifests. I am starting to get tired of the negative energy loop you have set up here for premies, like a roller coaster that just flies the coaster off the track and into a canyon. I'm tired of the ride you strap your premie guests into.

I wish unconditional, good energy without any strings attached, to everybody here.

shp

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Date: Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 07:14:44 (GMT)
From: ExTex
Email: None
To: shp
Subject: Craving no one's attention here
Message:
I am pretty sure that what you just wrote is sincere and you really do think that we are out to get you.
But you started out with a thread that quite clearly expressed the view that if everyone on the train you had ridden could just experience 'THAT' energy and 'THAT' love and peace that M shows...then what a better world it would be!

You forget that we have heard ALL ABOUT THAT FOR YEARS AND YEARS AND YEARS! For some it was on a DAILY basis! It is what was once called 'satsang' and no matter how subtle you think you are being...BOING! We recognize it! WE ALL KNOW THAT IT IS NOT TRUE! IT IS A CROCK!
SO WE LET YOU KNOW! (Maybe a little aggressively, at times)
Don't take it personally....but you are WRONG! WE ALL WERE! YOU AREN'T ALONE!

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Date: Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 04:03:23 (GMT)
From: shp
Email: None
To: ExTex
Subject: You don't have to shout...
Message:
ExTex,

I appreciate the openness with which you post your truth strongly but without claws out. I also understand where you are coming from, but you might think that's impossible for a premie to do.
We are both living and dying right now no matter what we think about Maharaji. Happy trails, maybe we'll catch up in the locker room after the game and swap stories someday. Or maybe we can continue here from time to time.

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Date: Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 07:20:00 (GMT)
From: ExTex
Email: None
To: shp
Subject: You don't have to shout...
Message:
Sorry about the capitals/shouts. Nothing personal. And I asure you I can totally completely relate to where you are coming from. I know it sounds so damn condecending but:
as I said I/we were once in your shoes...as far as being totally devoted to M and his K. Just remember that the energy that is you is not limited by anything...anything! And that includes Guru. Nothing can go off course 'spiritually'...nothing. It all just is! There is nothing to fear on that level. But as the saying goes, 'Though you may be communing with gods and angels, don't forget your zipcode!'
Gotta go, Ralph Nader is on Letterman!
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Date: Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 12:48:17 (GMT)
From: shp
Email: None
To: ExTex
Subject: You don't have to shout...
Message:
I saw Ralph too. He was great. Talks truth to power. Got his bumper sticker on my car. So we agree on something....? I'm working with the Greens in NJ. Plug in where you live if you aren't already.
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Date: Sat, Sep 30, 2000 at 04:20:34 (GMT)
From: ExTex
Email: None
To: shp
Subject: Go Greens!
Message:
Ha Ha Ha
Oh yeah. Seattle here. It feels good to have someone cut through the usual bullshit, tell the truth and mean what he says. Nader does!
I got my bumpersticker and little yard sign and button. I gotta support Ralph...he's the only one that isn't for sale and he sure can't be accused of jumping on the bandwagon! He's basically saying the same thing that he has been saying for the last 35 years. And it makes more sense now than it ever has.

YEA Green Party!! If not us, who? If not NOW, when? I just actually joined the Party. And for me it is a good thing. For me it is simpley a matter of trying to build a future that we can live in OR kiss democracy and the environment goodbye. And it isn't throwing a vote away. Voting your conscience is what voting is for! I am so sick of the lesser of the evils routine!

I am not really suprised that we have this in common. Not at all.
We all might have a lot more in common than we think.
(And one does what one can.)

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Date: Sat, Sep 30, 2000 at 15:45:23 (GMT)
From: shp
Email: None
To: ExTex
Subject: Go Greens!
Message:
Hey ExTex,

This thread is about to roll over. I'd like to talk to you some more. My e-mail is mcpass1@earthlink.net, or we can do it here on another thread up top. Your call. Yes, Nader is the only candidate who sounds to my ears to be be speaking with straight tongue and without a hidden agenda. I don't think we are ready as a culture for a philosopher king, but the ground work must be laid. Just like in the NBA, this is a year of political rebuilding and redevelopment.

shp

ps I imagine you see a paradox in my support of both Nader and Maharaji....but your tone is conversational enough and you seem to be sure enough and secure enough in yourself that you don't have to attack me just because we disagree about the latter.
I'll be looking for your e-mail or posting.

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Date: Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 16:33:31 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: shp
Subject: Anth ?
Message:
would you call me?

I've got your emails, empty !!! no text in them .....

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Date: Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 16:37:47 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Toute suite (nt)
Message:
pas de texte
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Date: Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 03:47:50 (GMT)
From: suchabanana
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: no monopoly on timeless wisdom and teachings
Message:
I have reached the inner vision and through Thy spirit in me I have heard Thy wondrous secret. Through Thy mystic insight Thou hast caused a spring of knowledge to well up within me, a fountain of power, pouring forth living waters, a flood of love and of all-embracing wisdom like the splendor of eternal Light.

-from the Book of Hymns of the Dead Sea Scrolls

MARCUS AURELIUS
Men seek retreats for themselves, houses in the country seashores, and mountains. But this is altogether a mark of the most common sort of men, for it is in thy power whenever thou shalt choose to retire into thyself. For nowhere either with more quiet or more freedom from trouble does a man retire into his own soul, particularly when he has within hirn such thoughts that by looking into them he is immediately in perfect tranquility; and I affirm that tranquility is nothing else than the good ordering of the mind. Constantly then give to thyself this retreat, and renew thyself.

The TAO:
There was something mysteriously formed, born before heaven and earth. . . in the silence and void, standing unchanging and alone.

I do not know its name... call it Tao.
Man follows the ways of earth, earth follows the ways of heaven, heaven follows the ways of Tao, Tao follows its own way.
The Tao that can be explained is not the eternal Tao. The name is not the eternal name. The nameless is the beginning of heaven and earth. The named is the mother of ten thousand things.

Desireless, one can see the Eternal. Desiring, one can see the temporal. These two spring from the same source but differ in name-this appears as darkness. Darkness within darkness-the key to all mystery.
Empty yourself of everything, and let the mind rest in peace. The ten thousand things rise and fall; they grow and bloom and then return to the source. Returning to the source is stillness, which is the way of nature.

Being at one with the Tao is eternal. And though the body disappears, the Tao will never pass away.

Man, born tender and yielding, stiffens and hardens in death. Green plants are tender and filled with sap; at their death they are withered and dry.

The stiff and unbending is the disciple of death. The gentle and yielding is the disciple of life.
The hard and strong will fall; the gentle and weak will overcome.

To know others is wisdom; to know one's self is enlightenment. To master others requires force; mastering the self needs strength.
Stay with the primeval Tao, and move with the present. To know the ancient beginning is the essence...

Peace, brothers and sisters


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Date: Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 05:30:36 (GMT)
From: suchabanana
Email: None
To: all
Subject: no monopoly on timeless wisdom and teachings cont.
Message:
Excerpts from the Essene Gospel of Peace: Book Four
(translated from Aramaic scrolls in the Secret Archives of the Vatican):

'And when the sun is high in the heavens, then shall you seek the Holy Stream of Sound. in the heat of noontide, all creatures are still and seek the shade; the angels of the Earthly Mother are silent for a space. Then it is that you shall let into your ears the Holy Stream of Sound; for it can only be heard in the silence. Think on the streams that are born in the desert after a sudden storm, and the roaring sound of the waters as they rush past. Truly, this is the voice of God, if you did but know it. For as it is written, in the beginning was the Sound, and the Sound was with God, and the Sound was God. I tell you truly, when we are born, we enter the world with the sound of God in our ears, even the singing of the vast chorus of the sky, and the holy chant of the stars in their fixed rounds; it is the Holy Stream of Sound that traverses the vault of stars and crosses the endless kingdom of the Heavenly Father. It is ever in our ears, so do we hear it not. Listen for it, then, in the silence of noontide; bathe in it, and let the rhythm of the music of God beat in your ears until you are one with the Holy Stream of Sound. It was this Sound which formed the earth and the world, and brought forth the mountains, and set the stars in their thrones of glory in the highest heavens.

And you shall bathe in the Stream of Sound, and the music of its waters shall flow over you; for in the beginning of the times so did we all share in the Holy Stream of Sound that gave birth to all creation. And the mighty roaring of the Stream of Sound wfll fdl your whole body, and you will tremble before its might. Then breathe deeply of the angel of air, and become the sound itself, that the Holy Stream of Sound may carry you to the endless kingdom of the Heavenly Father, there where the rhythm of the world rises and falls.

And when darkness gently closes the eyes of the angels of the Earthly Mother, then shall you also sleep, that your spirit may join the unknown angels of the Heavenly Father. And in the moments before you sleep, then shall you think of the bright and glorious stars, the white, shining, far-seen and far-piercing stars. For your thoughts before sleep are as the bow of the skalful archer, that sends the arrow where he wills. Let your thoughts before sleep be with the stars; for the stars are Light, and the Heavenly Father is Light, even that Light which is a thousand times brighter than the brightness of a thousand suns. Enter the Holy Stream of Light, that the shackles of death may loose their hold for ever, and breaking free from the bonds of earth, ascend the Holy Stream of Light through the blazing radiance of the stars, into the endless kingdom of the Heavenly Father.

Unfold your wings of light, and in the eye of your thought, soar with the stars into the farthest reaches of heaven, where untold suns blaze with light. For at the beginning of the times, the Holy Law said, let there be Light, and there was Light. And you shall be one with it, and the power of the Holy Light Stream will fill your whole body, and you will tremble before its might. Say the word 'Light,' as you breathe deeply of the angel of air, and you will become the Light itself; and the Holy Stream will carry you to the endless kingdom of the Heavenly Father, there losing itself in the eternal Sea of Light which gives birth to all creation. And you shall be one with the Holy Stream of Light, always before you sleep in the arms of the Heavenly Father.

I tell you truly, your body was made not only to breathe, and eat, and think, but it was also made to enter the Holy Stream of Life. And your ears were made not only to hear the words of men, the song of birds, and the music of falling rain, but they were also made to hear the Holy Stream of Sound. And your eyes were made not only to see the rising and setting of the sun, the ripple of sheaves of grain, and the words of the Holy Scrolls, but they were also made to see the Holy Stream of Light. One day your body will return to the Earthly Mother; even also your ears and your eyes. But the Holy Stream of Life, the Holy Stream of Sound, and the Holy Stream of Light, these were never born, and can never die. Enter the Holy Streams, even that Life, that Sound, and that Light which gave you birth; that you may reach the kingdom of the Heavenly Father and become one with him, even as the river empties into the far-distant sea.

More than this cannot be told, for the Holy Streams will take you to that place where words are no more, and even the Holy Scrolls cannot record the mysteries therein.'

-- as quoted from the Jesus of the ancient scrolls; kept out of sight from humanity by his alleged Western cult-church.

Put an end to any monopoly of the timeless truths -- that is, the monopoly of truth for the benefit of worldly power or selfish material wealth! Share the peace, share the light, share the inner truth that resides in the hearts of all human beings!

If a how-to video can even reveal knowledge, then clearly it has always been within us already -- for us to simply behold ourselves. Know that the real giver of the gift of Knowledge has been the giver of this life itself -- guiding us within every moment of our lives. Only the giver of this life itself can claim rightful ownership to that Knowledge. So, spread the wealth -- share the peace. The truth shall set us FREE!

Peace and Love

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Date: Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 05:09:42 (GMT)
From: bill
Email: None
To: suchabanana
Subject: 'darkness within darkness the key to all mystery'?
Message:
Hi Sucha....,
You know, all around the world there are guys that are into
religion of one sort or another. One view or another.
the oneness is concious.
the oneness is unconcious.
there is no oneness.
They want me to share thier view and agree that life is 'like that'.
I say none of them have it nailed and looking at the religious guys, the more they are into it the wierder they are. Doesnt matter which group it is.

Let them talk to me about enjoying my life here and my body and my capacity to make a moment special with someone and my chance to pursue dreams and how to feel good enough to share a childs imagination and hopes and dreams. And to 'attain' the willingness to do the right thing moment to moment and to recognise that if the 'oneness' wanted us to view it in any certain way, it would have managed to accomplish that joint view by all humans by now.

Instead, we are all fragmented and no one has it nailed.
I say I get the picture.
We are not meant to spend 5 minutes with all those 'understandings' and grand 'revelations' that no one can agree on. Unless of course if we leave our head at the door and say 'I am a believer'.

The reason for having a life is ours to choose. We make poor choices when we listen to all the wisdom.

We will die soon enough.
While we have the body and time, those that celebrate THAT are the ones to listen to.
Those that try to make the most of what they have got are the ones to listen to. Those that discount the joy of expression and send us in an early pursuit of death and worship are mad.

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Date: Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 06:09:07 (GMT)
From: suchabanana
Email: None
To: bill
Subject: Light within darkness the key to all mystery!
Message:
Hiya, Bill!!!

How about ending fragmentation of mind, and be whole and at peace, and feel the sublime joy of expression here and now, too?!

Yeah, forget religions and cults -- religion happens when the vibration of truth has died and left; then only the carcass of truth is left.

Cults base themselves around charismatic persons hungry to satiate their own appetites for power or wealth.

Regardless of any other person (to share a special moment with), though, each of us comes into this world alone -- and leaves it alone. Therefore, it also seems logical to first find that peace alone, and be content -- and THEN share it with others. A peace based on physically being with others is a form of dependency and attachment.

All we truly have to hold onto is the energy of life itself, and this moment here and now before us -- hold onto that energy, be attached to that energy, my friend, and you will have what you seek.

Have a joyful night, Bill. Fellowship is beautiful, too.

Peace

PS So, don't agree with me, or anyone's view -- just try it for yourself. It works. No need for religion, rites, arti trays, crucifixes, holy water, japa beads, holy relics, philosophers, devotion to persons, etc. Even the most insightful books are just an external sign, too, pointing the way (unless the authors haven't even actually had the experience).

In the stillness of the mind (when the thoughts stop) -- there is peace. Bill, can you control your own mind, and shut off the unwanted thoughts, reactions, and anxieties? Yes, Bill, I can't speak for anyone else, but I have personally experienced a oneness -- when the internal chatter of the head and its imprisoning b.s. shuts up -- and leaves me alone, just to feel and breathe!

But, that 'oneness' (as you put it) is a unique experience within each human being, whether known, or not -- and whatever your feelings are, I recognize that they indeed are valid to you. Have you no techniques for going within -- into the silence? [Look for recent clues on this site.] Don't knock it, if you haven't really really tried it, ok?

Peace, and Good Night
(it's late; time to go and commune with my inner Light)

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Date: Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 14:09:26 (GMT)
From: bill
Email: None
To: suchabanana
Subject: inner 'light' is not fascinating
Message:
IF it was, rawat and his family and his instructors would have had something real to say. But, unsatisfied, they misspent thier lives.

Dont forget Suchie, although I agree that the breath is a nice rythym, people go to the beach for the same thing and when someone finds something that they are happy to concentrate on, whatever, thier mind is focused and that is always a plus.
Even the guy who serves donuts and coffee out the drive up window at Dunkin Donuts can be razor sharp with his concentration and function real well and feel good.
Same with most folks.
Dont fergit that ALL the 'insightful' books are way too long and if what you are reccomending as distilled info is;
'feel the breath when you dont feel good and/or when you want a break from thinking without using a cigarette', then that is all the book that is needed,and all the rest of the pages are another persons attempt to paint reality in thier incorrect way.

Nice to label it 'insightful' but what did all the satsang and reading do for you or me? Other than your post about feeling the breath, which is mercifully nutshelled, all those other guys have been a useless burden.

I spent years involved with 'god' related issues and what would I say to the 4 young guys that live with me? 'HEY! Dont do what I did! Suchie reccomends feeling your breath and I concur, but dont read or listen to anyone that wants to talk about god in any way. Assume life likes you and can help you in subtle ways to some extent. Enjoy each and every day. Try to not take anything for granted. Surround yourself with goodness and love....ect ect.

Religious guys are replacing moments of potential living with moments of fantasizing about what a purposely invisible silent god thinks. Sheesh.

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Date: Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 14:45:45 (GMT)
From: bill
Email: None
To: bill
Subject: blame it on the design
Message:
Even if someone likes the idea that no 'intelligence' designed the human nature, the way we are with free will, right and wrong,
good and bad, our total inability to 'become one' or get along no matter how many issues we jointly agree on, the fact that we can have only momentary experiences of unity and have to work at staying out of different forms of mental states that we dont want
and our love of painting our own view of reality and trying to 'share' it, and our love of argueing and fighting and adventure and madness ect ect all add up to what we have here going on with all the humans. Religions doing thier part with keeping millions busy and basically in check, ect.

I dont want to try to make anything change, I just see the value of breaking free of religious and other schools of thought about it and deal with what is around me in a fun 'i love it' way.
In spite of Murphys Law.

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Date: Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 06:31:41 (GMT)
From: ExTex
Email: None
To: bill
Subject: blame it on the design
Message:
Bill, I must agree with most of what you posted here. As I've posted before (sorry, I am from the Dept of Redundancy Dept):
The word GOD must be the most meaningless and DANGEROUS word ever uttered. It is the ultimate 'conceptualization' trip.

On one hand we have 'experience', direct, pure, often not comprehended. And on the other hand we have this word 'God' that is a zillion different concepts, and everyone who uses it thinks that they comprehend it.

The word is ripe for retirement from language.

One thing about 'Gods' and religions that really bugs me is how most are all full of this use of monarchy as a model for spiritual growth and spiritual realities! The whole structure of 'spiritual' stuff always seems to dovetail back into a monarchist construct. (Especially Christianity and Rawat type guru scenes.) Annoying

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Date: Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 03:14:29 (GMT)
From: bill
Email: None
To: ExTex
Subject: blame it on the design
Message:
Hi ex-tex,
I do value the idea that life likes me.
The only thing I can come up with that covers a lot of loose ends is figureing that life is playing some kind of chess with itself and.....well, that is a subject for another night I guess.
Hope things are going well for you.
Got to go;)
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Date: Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 03:56:23 (GMT)
From: suchabanana
Email: None
To: everyone
Subject: on the internet
Message:
On the internet:

http://www.geocities.com/RodeoDrive/9539/free_knowledge.html

http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~inner/

Peace

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Date: Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 14:02:26 (GMT)
From: shp
Email: None
To: suchabanana
Subject: interesting thread
Message:
Dear Suchabanana,

I have most of the books you quoted on my shelf and am familiar with them...the Tao, the Essence Gospels Of Peace, etc. I hold the information in them most dear.

These books didn't just show up out of the blue. People wrote them and people represented and embodied what they stood for in their time. Lao-Tzu, Melech-zedick (king of righteousness = sat-guru), Moses, and Jesus as you mentioned were living embodiments of the truths they came to reveal and share. These were people who somehow 'stepped in it' and became spokespeople for that very Sound and Light of which all the sacred scriptures speak, depsite their human frailties or misconceptions that swirled around them.

Every one of them had detractors, and every one of them had said or done things that were judged by those detractors as being out of character with who they were supposed to be, based on the concepts of the detractors. Moses killed a man, yet he authored such beautiful prayers (book 2, Essene Gospel of Peace), and was the savior of the Jews, a willing instrument despite his human frailties, in his time. Jesus was accused of consorting with whores and sinners, etc. and allowing expensive things to be showered upon him while the masses were starving. And on and on.

So all I am saying is that hindsight is 20/20. It's easy to sit back in the 21st century and support the Essenes and all the enlightened ones from antiquity, but don't think for a minute that they weren't persecuted and accused of so many things. Why do you think that the scrolls were hidden in the first place and have not become the very centerpiece of human civilization which they deserve to be? Could you have hung with them in the face of not just cyber-criticism, but death? Peace.

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Date: Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 19:51:26 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: shp
Subject: Yer such a dope. Sandy
Message:
Lao Tzu:

Those who know, won't talk about it.
Those who talk, don't know about it.

You and goober sure are some mighty big blabbermouths...

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Date: Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 21:50:39 (GMT)
From: shp
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Aw shucks, ger
Message:
Another Master said to preach (broadcast) it to every living creature. Go figure. Different times require different ways, I guess, but the experience is still the same. They all describe the Knowledge pretty much the same but each teacher came on differently, n'est pas?

Kinda lika basabole....sama basic rules but eacha game requires a different strategy, capice?

Sorry if I souna like I'ma tink Ima betta dan u. Not so.
Hava gooda wikkend, my fran.

(Wunna Corona and a slisa lime an Fr. Guido Sarducci has taken over my body!)

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Date: Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 23:57:16 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: shp
Subject: OK, how 'bout this...
Message:
The simplest pattern is the clearest.
Content with an ordinary life
you can show people the way
back to their own true nature.

Oh I fergot...different times/styles, right?

How's the Corona going down?

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Date: Sat, Sep 30, 2000 at 16:34:48 (GMT)
From: shp
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: OK, how 'bout this...
Message:
The simplest pattern is the clearest.
Content with an ordinary life
you can show people the way
back to their own true nature.
Oh I fergot...different times/styles, right?
How's the Corona going down? -gerry

Hey gerry,

In all my life I don't recall running into such a paradox as the one I face here with ex-premies. Perhaps that is why I come here and try to communicate. You all are not concepts, not imaginary characters in a satsang tale, or anything like that. You are real flesh and blood, live human beings just like me and I truly and sincerely feel for you...not sympathy, feeling sorry - but more like empathy, trying to grasp and understand what you are feeling. You are still my brothers and sisters in the eyes of the Creator. (To atheists and agnostics reading, just disregard this last sentence.)

There are so many things written and said that anybody can prove their points using the chapter and verse tactic. Just turn on the TV on any given Sunday. Same goes for us here and the battle of the enlightened masters quote-a-thon. We all just want to be happy and fulfilled on a level that won't diminish with time or the changing fortunes of this world, am I right?

I was coming out of a heavy Judeo-Christian thing when I ran into him. Maharaji filled the bill as the teacher of this age and the Knowledge did its thing on me and delivered as promised on that inner level. The outer life and all the molecules involved are taking a bit more time to line up, and we all knew that would be the case. He made no promises about riches or a problem-free life, just the inner fulfillment. I just want you to know that I am not self-satisfied to come here and be met with scorn and a pain-twisted feedback from most of those who interact with me. I do not separate myself from you in my heart just because we don't agree about him.

I read the things that are brought up here as points of contention about Maharaji's authenticity as a true Master and I
don't just sit on them or ignore them. Most dissolve in my own way of looking at life and things, like the money, etc. I don't even see that as an issue. The things about Jagdeo and Fakiranand, etc - more serious to me and more consequential to others - did bother me and I made an inquiry to which EV wrote me a response that Anth has a copy of. Yet even though I know intuitively that child molestation is a terrible thing and some of Maharaji's people were guilty of it, I cannot throw out the entire package because of the actions of a very few. I know inside that Maharaji is not into the things that Jagdeo did, yet Jagdeo did them nonetheless. I have no answer or explanation for that, nor do I defend it. But I still do not throw out the entire experience with Maharaji over a few aberrations. And in saying this, I do not minimize or discount the horrible pain and suffering that the victims must have gone through during and since these aberrations. I daresay that I would have had as bad or worse reaction if it had happened to me or mine as any here, but I cannot say if I would have overcome that pain and stayed with him or not if me or mine had been abused at the hands of his trusted representative.

Yeah, I personally could live as you described in your opening verse, simple and fulfilled. But an enlightened person, yea a Master even, is supposed to be able to live in a cave or a castle and remain the same person inside and out. I would welcome the opportunity to prove that point to myself anytime, but I am not attached to it.

The Corona was mas fina, especially with a fat slice of lime stuck in that long neck fizzing away. Usually I enjoy Samuel Smith's Oatmeal Stout, but lately I have gravitated towards a lighter brew.

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