Forum V: Archive
Compiled: Tues, Oct 10, 2000 at 09:50:49 (GMT)
From: Sep 26, 2000 To: Oct 07, 2000 Page: 4 Of: 5


Salam -:- Wanted: info. -:- Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 04:02:21 (GMT)
__ bill -:- Wanted: info. -:- Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 05:37:55 (GMT)
__ __ Salam -:- From ELK -:- Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 09:28:31 (GMT)
__ __ __ bill -:- From deer -:- Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 14:36:12 (GMT)
__ __ __ Tonette -:- Those rabbits are VORACIOUS indeed! -:- Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 09:57:01 (GMT)

Rated-X -:- Choosing a Successor -:- Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 00:54:07 (GMT)

TED Farkel -:- Grace was flowing,they lowered the BOOM.Help,Drek! -:- Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 00:47:47 (GMT)
__ Tonette -:- I might have an idea TED -:- Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 08:32:24 (GMT)
__ Roger eDrek -:- Hang on, TED. I'm being held prisoner by... -:- Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 03:25:29 (GMT)
__ __ Salam -:- Roger. Can you read Teds post, because I can't..nt -:- Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 03:37:03 (GMT)
__ __ __ Roger eDrek -:- Of course, I can read TED's post. I am the Master -:- Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 04:02:37 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Salam -:- Hail the Master. For he has opened my eyes. -:- Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 09:37:25 (GMT)
__ Salam -:- Helllooooo, Anyone there.?..nt -:- Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 02:26:13 (GMT)

suchabanana -:- 'Guru Maharaj ji is not hungry of our possessions' -:- Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 21:56:41 (GMT)
__ bill -:- 'Guru Maharaj ji is not hungry of our possessions' -:- Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 14:39:50 (GMT)
__ Bin Liner -:- 'Guru Maharaj ji is not hungry of our possessions' -:- Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 23:03:10 (GMT)
__ __ Tonette -:- Since you are a most recent ex -:- Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 10:28:52 (GMT)
__ __ __ Bin Liner -:- Since you are a most recent ex -:- Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 13:45:34 (GMT)
__ __ __ Tonette -:- The FA doesn't mean this one Bin nt -:- Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 12:25:46 (GMT)
__ __ Forum Admin -:- ignore this post -:- Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 00:47:29 (GMT)
__ __ __ Forum Admin -:- ignore this post: clarification... -:- Mon, Oct 02, 2000 at 15:55:26 (GMT)
__ __ __ Loaf -:- ignore this post -:- Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 06:43:26 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Bin Liner -:- ignore this post -:- Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 22:43:47 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ AJW -:- Probably a moan... -:- Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 09:47:42 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Bin Liner -:- Probably a moan... -:- Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 22:47:13 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ AJW -:- Poetic Licence mate -:- Sat, Sep 30, 2000 at 08:12:03 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Tonette -:- Laughing here. Chuckle,chuckle........nt -:- Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 08:13:55 (GMT)
__ __ suchabanana -:- r.e. personal agya -:- Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 23:41:05 (GMT)

Yves -:- Rat diagnosed manic-depressive psychopath -:- Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 17:54:38 (GMT)
__ DeProgram Anand Ji -:- Rat diagnosed manic-depressive psychopath -:- Mon, Oct 02, 2000 at 12:52:10 (GMT)
__ Yves -:- Chances are Baldiguanaji does too -:- Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 16:25:36 (GMT)
__ __ Matahariji -:- I'm dead. Leave me alone -:- Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 16:55:11 (GMT)
__ __ Bullshitji (Yves) -:- What happened to fatrat's retarded brother -:- Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 16:53:05 (GMT)
__ __ Ragnagni (Yves) -:- Baldiguanaji -:- Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 16:40:40 (GMT)
__ Steve -:- would you like to take your own medicine ? nt -:- Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 11:03:26 (GMT)
__ AJW -:- Why... -:- Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 08:54:29 (GMT)
__ __ Yves -:- Bang (NT) -:- Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 13:54:49 (GMT)
__ __ __ AJW -:- Help FA. Yves just shot me. (nt) -:- Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 15:09:30 (GMT)
__ Tonette -:- Wishful thinking -:- Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 08:34:56 (GMT)
__ __ gerry -:- Hallucinations are not a symptom of sociopathy (nt -:- Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 16:31:17 (GMT)
__ gerry -:- So... BigBaldIguanaJi was Jesus, right? (nt) -:- Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 00:49:45 (GMT)
__ __ Yves -:- That's what he said at the time -:- Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 14:18:50 (GMT)
__ Nigel -:- I think you're full of crap, Yves... -:- Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 00:00:11 (GMT)
__ __ Selene -:- thanks Nigel -:- Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 01:49:00 (GMT)
__ __ __ Nigel -:- thanks Nigel -:- Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 02:34:00 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Selene -:- yeah HA!! creativity is a symptom -:- Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 02:38:54 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ SB -:- GI JOE can afford it (nt) -:- Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 03:17:54 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- yes but can he... -:- Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 03:36:11 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ SB -:- yes,and with the other hand what is he doing? (nt) -:- Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 04:18:31 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Salam -:- Pick his nose? -:- Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 10:47:59 (GMT)
__ __ gerry -:- Yves never said psychotic, Nigel -:- Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 00:43:30 (GMT)
__ __ __ Nigel -:- Yves never said psychotic, Nigel -:- Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 01:04:06 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ G -:- psychopath -:- Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 01:33:26 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ gerry -:- The terms are tricky but definite -:- Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 01:28:52 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Nigel -:- 'sociopath' maybe, 'psychopath' no. (nt) -:- Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 01:43:08 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- They mean the same thing, though. -:- Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 01:48:16 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- ooooppppsss -:- Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 02:28:31 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- ooooppppsss -:- Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 16:37:22 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- your retirement plan sounds like mine -:- Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 16:50:56 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- your retirement plan sounds like mine -:- Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 17:03:53 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ ExTex -:- your retirement plan sounds like mine -:- Sat, Sep 30, 2000 at 08:10:36 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Nigel -:- They mean the same thing, though. -:- Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 02:07:10 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ ExTex -:- Didn't Hitler fit that description? (nt) -:- Sat, Sep 30, 2000 at 08:13:51 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- Yeah, narcissitic shithead sounds about right -:- Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 16:19:19 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ G -:- They mean the same thing, though. -:- Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 03:18:01 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- Now I'm leaning towards Narcisstic v Sociopath... -:- Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 21:41:56 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Janet of Venice -:- Now I'm leaning towards Narcisstic v Sociopath... -:- Tues, Oct 03, 2000 at 17:52:22 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ la-ex -:- Leave no room for doubt: he is NARCISSISTIC!!!. -:- Sat, Sep 30, 2000 at 03:59:46 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- goober qualifies for sociopathy! -:- Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 22:11:01 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ JohnT -:- thanks for the excellent posts, gerry! -:- Mon, Oct 02, 2000 at 12:33:40 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ la-ex -:- I'd vote for sociopath,narcissistic,asshole. -:- Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 04:51:25 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Tonette -:- I agree nt -:- Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 02:31:58 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Collins Dictionary -:- I agree -:- Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 13:02:38 (GMT)
__ Yves -:- I suspect Rajjaji must visit forum on occasions -:- Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 18:21:01 (GMT)
__ __ Rajaji (Yves, really) -:- Weng booboo gnagnaraje ouane threen peaks fong u -:- Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 16:12:28 (GMT)

Gregg -:- Millennium Madness -:- Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 17:28:51 (GMT)
__ Joe -:- Millennium Madness -:- Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 18:28:58 (GMT)

Yves -:- Roger secret technique revealed -:- Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 14:35:23 (GMT)
__ Yves -:- Roger, you can run but you can't hide -:- Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 16:13:47 (GMT)
__ Tonette -:- You forgot one. -:- Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 15:36:13 (GMT)
__ __ Yo -:- You forgot one. -:- Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 18:32:16 (GMT)
__ __ __ Roger eDrek -:- Yup, somebody hacked my site again -:- Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 20:50:57 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Yves -:- About this one -:- Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 17:21:32 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Yves -:- Lowlife disgusting worm-kissing part of dejection -:- Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 13:46:02 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ AJW -:- I'll never... -:- Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 09:50:38 (GMT)

Forum Administrator -:- To 'Dido babar Lionheart' -:- Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 11:26:14 (GMT)

suchabanana -:- stage alumni reunions at programs -:- Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 07:25:37 (GMT)
__ Yves -:- It's expensive to go there -:- Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 13:47:26 (GMT)
__ __ bill -:- It's expensive to go there -:- Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 14:56:01 (GMT)

Loaf -:- Harrogate -:- Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 07:23:00 (GMT)
__ Joe -:- Did he 'dance?' (nt) -:- Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 19:55:00 (GMT)
__ __ Loaf -:- Did he FUCK (nt) -:- Sat, Sep 30, 2000 at 05:51:46 (GMT)
__ __ __ anon -:- Ask Monica (nt) -:- Sat, Sep 30, 2000 at 22:52:25 (GMT)
__ Jim -:- Sorry, but I think you're missing the point -:- Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 17:18:56 (GMT)
__ __ Loaf -:- Good points -:- Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 17:21:26 (GMT)
__ bongo -:- Harrogate -:- Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 11:35:51 (GMT)
__ __ Loaf Ji -:- Mirth !!! -:- Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 17:18:59 (GMT)
__ __ __ Bongo -:- Mirth !!! -:- Sat, Sep 30, 2000 at 11:11:47 (GMT)
__ Tonette -:- Very insightful and great perspective -:- Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 08:45:26 (GMT)
__ Nigel -:- Skilled performer? -:- Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 21:07:32 (GMT)
__ __ cq -:- Can you imagine him in League of Gentlemen? ! (nt) -:- Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 18:00:59 (GMT)
__ __ Nigel -:- Hmm, could he deal with hecklers..? (nt) -:- Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 21:29:52 (GMT)
__ __ __ Loaf -:- NOT A CHANCE !!! -:- Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 06:27:23 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Nigel -:- NOT A CHANCE, indeed !!! -:- Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 06:50:37 (GMT)
__ Joe -:- Harrogate -:- Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 19:27:34 (GMT)
__ __ Loaf -:- Harrogate -:- Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 20:01:09 (GMT)
__ __ __ bill -:- Harrogate -:- Sun, Oct 01, 2000 at 05:09:04 (GMT)
__ Way -:- Thanks Loaf -:- Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 15:58:42 (GMT)
__ __ Loaf -:- Thanks Loaf -:- Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 18:44:49 (GMT)
__ __ __ gerry -:- OK, I confess... -:- Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 17:30:51 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Selene -:- neither could I -:- Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 17:47:59 (GMT)
__ __ __ Way -:- Thanks again Loaf -:- Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 21:05:05 (GMT)
__ PCH -:- Harrogate..to summarize -:- Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 14:36:26 (GMT)
__ __ Loaf -:- Paul daniels and Debbie McGee -:- Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 18:54:53 (GMT)
__ __ __ Nigel -:- Mrs Merton meets Debbie McGee.. -:- Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 21:13:17 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Joe -:- British Television -- outrageous (and to Way)(OT) -:- Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 22:40:30 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Way -:- television notes -:- Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 14:54:08 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Joe -:- The incredible boredom of Will and Grace -:- Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 16:41:25 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ AJW -:- American TV -:- Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 15:13:34 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Way -:- Commercials! -:- Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 15:21:14 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Joe -:- Commercials and the Olympics -:- Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 18:26:27 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Way -:- Basketball! -:- Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 18:39:50 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ AJW -:- Channel 4 (OT) -:- Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 10:03:43 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Joe -:- Tales of the City -:- Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 16:33:11 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ AJW -:- Tales of the City -:- Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 20:49:32 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- PBS and NPR -:- Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 17:43:25 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ ham -:- Wicked Series Joe -:- Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 03:08:59 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Joe -:- I'm Still Amazed.. -:- Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 04:47:49 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ ham -:- No seriously, big changes happening here, -:- Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 19:03:31 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Joe -:- Correction, that's 'two men kissing'.... -:- Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 22:42:17 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Nigel -:- Queer as folk... -:- Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 00:18:55 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Joe -:- Queer as folk... -:- Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 00:52:32 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ bill -:- Joe folk...box sent to JIM -:- Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 03:22:07 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ bill -:- Joe folk...box sent to JIM -:- Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 05:32:24 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Joe -:- Thanks, Bill -- HEY JIM.... -:- Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 05:17:53 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Nigel -:- Shit! You still can't say 'fuck' on TV..? -:- Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 01:40:11 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Loaf -:- If Hague came out of the closet-I'd go back in(NT) -:- Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 06:32:37 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Joe -:- Fuck, you still can't say 'shit' on TV. -:- Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 04:25:23 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Monmot -:- What About HBO? -:- Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 04:38:26 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Joe -:- I don't have cable. -:- Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 04:56:24 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- Prison 'sex' -:- Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 17:59:40 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Monmot -:- Prison 'sex' -:- Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 18:10:54 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Monmot -:- I don't have cable. -:- Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 05:08:57 (GMT)
__ Paul -:- yes, he depises premies -:- Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 14:25:57 (GMT)
__ AJW -:- The Crumbling Cult. -:- Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 12:26:04 (GMT)
__ __ Loaf -:- No 4 -:- Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 17:33:09 (GMT)
__ __ __ AJW -:- No 4 -:- Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 18:07:26 (GMT)
__ suchabanana -:- Harrogate -- Wow! Good report -:- Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 08:06:01 (GMT)
__ __ Loaf -:- Harrogate -- Wow! Good report -:- Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 17:39:32 (GMT)

Roger eDrek -:- I can't decide whether -:- Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 04:49:35 (GMT)
__ la-ex -:- I can't decide whether -:- Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 23:30:49 (GMT)
__ Yves -:- Has everyone seen the blueprint? -:- Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 14:42:49 (GMT)
__ __ Salam -:- Has everyone seen the blueprint? -:- Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 11:13:56 (GMT)
__ __ __ bill -:- new blueprint coming to JIM -:- Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 14:44:08 (GMT)
__ AJW -:- Tasteful -:- Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 12:30:30 (GMT)
__ __ bill -:- photo of malibu -:- Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 19:15:56 (GMT)
__ Jean-Michel -:- Here's a picture of the G4, the real one -:- Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 07:20:35 (GMT)
__ __ Roger eDrek -:- Excellent work, J-M (one suggestion) -:- Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 04:07:48 (GMT)
__ __ bill -:- Here's a picture of the G4, the real one -:- Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 03:07:34 (GMT)
__ __ Yves -:- It says it is owned by known PAMs -:- Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 20:46:56 (GMT)
__ suchabanana -:- Get your red-hot Lord of the Universe buttons now! -:- Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 07:04:05 (GMT)
__ __ Roger eDrek -:- Don't lose those momentos! -:- Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 20:57:50 (GMT)


Date: Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 04:02:21 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Wanted: info.
Message:
Anyone has any any info on the these thing:

1- La Tierra Del Amor.
2- Elan Vital electronic bulletin board.
3- India Knowledge Centre.

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Date: Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 05:37:55 (GMT)
From: bill
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: Wanted: info.
Message:
the premies of that area abandoned it by about 96.
It got completely run down and the lord stopped by there after talking about land to people in the ivory coast.
The premies in argentina or whatever country it is in lost interest when the lord almighty made some comment about it that was negative. not sure if he is trying to pump it up again.
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Date: Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 09:28:31 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: bill
Subject: From ELK
Message:
It may not be very dead. This is a post from ELK. How long ago was the incident that you mention. Does anyone else know more.

Sonia Madruga, Rio de Janeiro, Brazil

I've recently come back from my stay in La Tierra Del Amor. I was there from 27 December to 2 January.

I spent many moments of inspiration there, due to its natural beauty, its meaning and the presence there which can be felt among the blossoming roses, and the orange and peach trees. In other words, walking through all those places where Maharaji walks when he goes there.

I feel that it's a real opportunity, to have here, in South America, such an amazing place. You can even spend some time there; it has only to be arranged. And you can delight yourself by participating, by practicing and making sure not to miss the daily video. Aside from having a prearranged schedule for food and lodging, you receive a briefing on arrival from the people who work at La Tierra; I can tell you they do so with deep respect, dedication, focus and tons of love!

This is a place moved by love. There are beautiful plans for La Tierra. I would really love to see many more people becoming aware of the privilege of being there, and to perceive the potential that lies there, the opportunity to participate in this marvellous project.There are now plans for a Knowledge Centre, accommodation, the road and so much more.

I was there when they started to plant the orange trees, around 300 of them, in front of the event area, because of their perfume.

I'd like to say that we are more than welcome to go and participate in La Tierra! I really feel that this invitation is for all of us! Every time that I have a chance to be there, I feel the same call, that same knowing that it's truly an invitations for each one of us, plus the joy of being in his world.

Note this other post

The orange trees are in bloom!!

How long do trees take to bloom? especially oranges. 1-2 years.

Also:

Sylvia Grimberg

Scroll down for translation in Spanish and Portuguese

I enjoy having the opportunity of going to La Tierra as often as I can, at least every week-end and even every holiday if possible. During the rest of the week I'm longing to go. As soon as I arrive I start longing for him to come.

Here is some information about what was done in La Tierra during the last winter season (now it is already the end of the spring/beginning of the summer here in Argentina) just in case someone would like to know

* 50 privets and 50 meters of bamboo were planted along the outer fence.

* The jacarandas and 'lapachos' were protected against frost using cloth and plastic insulation.

* The quince tree, the orange trees, the mulberry trees, the ashes, and the silver poplars were pruned. A new chain saw, which is also used for cleaning the forest, expedited the pruning.

* The orange and quince trees, conifers and deciduous trees were fumigated using a new fumigator, the tractor, and industrial safety equipment.

* Compost, fertiliser, and mulch were added to the new orange trees, conifers, and fruit trees. Part of the compost is produced at La Tierra, using organic waste, and the rest is purchased. On-site production of the full amount is planned, since it is very expensive.

* To protect the young orange trees from voracious hares, 194 plastic screens, 60 cm high, were set in place.

* An organic vegetable garden is being organised.

* In order to improve drainage, 4- to 7-meter holes were drilled at various places on the land.

* Sheet-metal work was done in the warehouse, and currently the tents are being inventoried and repaired.

* A Ford tractor, a new disk rake for levelling the ground, and a lawn mower were received as donations.

* Maintenance of the main house continues. The entire interior was painted and the woodwork, which was very deteriorated, was restored. At present, the roof is being painted. The purchase of a hot-air spray gun allows the work to be done in less time, with a better and more lasting finish.

* A flowerbed was planted in the rear garden of the main house, where 51 cubic meters of fertile soil and compost were placed.

* A certified medical team provides free service.

Lodging for thirteen people is available. In case someone would like to to be invited to stay at La Tierra, contact Betty Barónby email: baron@movi.com.ar

SPANISH TRANSLATION

Invierno 1998 - Información sobre la evolución de La Tierra, durante el invierno austral.

Inverno 1998 Informações sobre os progressos efetuados em La Tierra durante o inverno

note that the English version does give dates, while the Spanish one does. 1998 Winter. Assuming the the orange trees were planted in 1998, then a year later which is winter 1999 is not really that far. The project look like a very low key. As it is obvious they are short on funds but knowing how gm likes to restore delapitated real estate over a period of time with cheap labor, maybe he is keeping it for the children?

Finally I would like to extend my thank to ELK, for providing such valuable information.

Inspector Salam

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Date: Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 14:36:12 (GMT)
From: bill
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: From deer
Message:
Hi Salam,
When the lord of the ocean yacht went to soulth america after doing the 95 tour of ivory coast, he went to the tierra place and mentioned that he was now interested in the place again.
This was after making some previous negative comments years earlier that led the premies to abandon thier efforts to fix it up. This was just a couple weeks or so before the nearly infinite durga ji had her blood clot.
During that same couple weeks he made a negative comment about HER at the talk in Uraguay. I believe I have that tape.
I will fish it out.
The house that your post mentions was built for the lord of the universe. It was only land when he bought the place. I am sure it was unsuitable for such a lord.
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Date: Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 09:57:01 (GMT)
From: Tonette
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: Those rabbits are VORACIOUS indeed!
Message:
Looks like the orange trees dwindled in number from 300 to 194!
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Date: Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 00:54:07 (GMT)
From: Rated-X
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Choosing a Successor
Message:
I think the time has come for the lard to choose a successor, and he will surely keep the guru business in the family. Either one of his daughters would be a great choice as they're both babes. Hell why not choose both. With sex appeal like that, the sagging propagation in America would surely go right through the roof. Give so much in donations and you can kiss her feet, more in donations and you can kiss her legs, an even higher amount in cash, well... stop the darshan line and close the curtains.

Mmmmmmm Yes Mistress... Anything you say Mistress

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Date: Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 00:47:47 (GMT)
From: TED Farkel
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Grace was flowing,they lowered the BOOM.Help,Drek!
Message:
Dear Mr. eDrek-
TED Farkel here,and I'll get right to the point,Mr. eDrek...
Well,the grace was startin to flow real nice here in Shaft(just outside Mobile) Alabama,and then some of the local honchos lowered the boom.And since a lot of this started because of you Mr. eDrek,I think you ought to help me get outa this jamb I'm in...
While some of you guys were lounging around watching our master on the video feed, I was down in Florida, on a pilgrimage just like Mr. eDrek suggested.I painted 'who is guru maharaji' on the tailgate of my '62 Ford pickup (couldn't find the bumper stickers as you suggested).I visited the broadripple hotel,the old residence on millionaires row,deca,amtext,and those old cowpie infested fields in kissimmee.Returned home,acted blissed out, put on the fake hindi accent and started givin satsang,just like you old timers used to do in the good ole days...
Now back in Shaft,people were startin to talk about strange things goin on in Farkel's Repair Shop.They heard that some of my buddies were having religious experiences in the pit of the garage,watching my little 12' black and white tv.And then they heard that some fellers were watching free porn on the eDrek site! Then they heard that the boys were drinkin beer while they were watching the 'titty show' and having religious experiences to boot!
Well you can imagine,Mr. eDrek, the effect this had on a small town like ours.Everyone's related (REAL related,if you know what I mean),knows everyone's business,and it didn't take long before the reverend and the head of the chamber of commerce paid me a visit.The Reverend was mad; attendance at church is down,cos of the videos at the shop.Business leaders were mad,cos attendance at the local 'titty bar'($8 admission,except on Tues.night,when ladies are free)was down, because of YOUR site.And they knew that I was sellin beer at the videos (I know you said not to, but the boys said they'd only be aspirants if they could drink beer, so I set a one beer/video rule and it seemed to work.We're watching 10-12 video/nite now,and the grace is flowin...)
Now everyone's talkin about ole TED,and I don't know what to do.You know,I don't think they believed that fake hindi accent I put on,as you suggested.I think that's when they started to suspect something funny was up.Now the reverend is threatening to tell people in next sunday's sermon to boycott Farkel's repair shop.I can't afford for this to happen Mr. eDrek.

So I asked the reverend, what's the matter with my master?He's just showing us all THAT experience,and we're just feelin THAT gratitude!
Reverend says,'TED Farkel,you're followin a false prophet! We can't have that in Shaft,Alabama!' He said that our master said that he's greater than god!Imagine that!So I told the reverend not to worry,I'll just have Mr.eDrek give us an answer on that one.Now I know my master would never have said that,that's just plain stupid!How can a feller,who was created by God,be greater than God?That don't make sense...besides, who would be stupid enough to follow a guy who said somethin like that?

So Mr. eDrek, would you kindly step in and end this confusion?My livelihood and reputation are on the line,as well as propagation here in the Mobile area.

Waiting your answer
TED Farkel
(Not a cultist,just feelin THAT gratitude)
(By the way,I'm not interested in Pauline Premie anymore.I think she's real uptight.Now,Janice Wilson,I still got a powerful hankerin to meet that gal.She is right mystical...kinda like a modern day Kabir or somethin with that poetry that seems so stupid, but you know it's makin sense on some real deep,mystical level...know what I mean?)

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Date: Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 08:32:24 (GMT)
From: Tonette
Email: None
To: TED Farkel
Subject: I might have an idea TED
Message:
How about inviting the Master to Shaft? Maybe he'd be able to convert most of the town into K automatrons. With any luck the local preacher could become the local coordinator so as to not threaten his proper place of promninance. Otherwise you're doomed TED. If the Master doesn't get there real fast you best stock up on a couple of gallons of turpentine. That town is likely to Tar and Feather you baby.
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Date: Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 03:25:29 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: drek@oz.net
To: FARKEL
Subject: Hang on, TED. I'm being held prisoner by...
Message:
something called a job.

Damn, I knew that I should have gone to college, but instead I got Maharaji's Knowledge. This week I'm working a double shift here at the Circle-K doing my regular assistant manager for the night shift and the afternoon shift.

It's really a hard life. I see now why the Master, Maharaji, chooses to do as little as possible. It's just a lot of work and responsibility when you are personally saving thousands and thousands of people from being devoured alive by their own darkened minds. The stress of it all is really taking a toll on me and I'm drinking more than usual, although I'm finding that I can only tolerate VVSOP instead of VSOP.

TED, you've got to hang on. You've received Knowledge and you have felt the power. Your mind took a vacation and now it's back and it's stronger than ever. The mind sees that it is doomed and it is going to fight. Now is not the time to give up, TED. You must remain steadfast. You must meditate or I will beat you with a stick!

TED, I know how difficult this journey is. I, myself, received this sacred, ancient and holy Knowledge and I realized it fully and I no longer need to meditate or follow any rules. Yet, I can sit around all day watching daytime TV with servants at my beck and call and I can, if I so choose, get off of my fat ass once in awhile and speak about this perfect spark of Knowledge and people flock to me and give up their lives. They surrender to me, TED. They love only me, TED.

Oh, boy! I'd better slowdown here as I think that I'm getting ahead of myself. I don't want to spoil this beautiful moment, this opportunity.

TED, I - I mean WE can help you. You must trust us. We can guide you on your journey of realization of this Knowledge. Sometime soon, I can't tell you exactly when, something really, really big is going to happen. You need to try harder and harder until then. You must resist the power of the mind. Instead, TED, you need to listen to your heart.

©There is so much to be grateful for when our appreciation is synchronized.™

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Date: Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 03:37:03 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: Roger. Can you read Teds post, because I can't..nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 04:02:37 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: drek@oz.net
To: Salam
Subject: Of course, I can read TED's post. I am the Master
Message:
When the heart of the devotee crys out for the Master the Master hears that cry no matter how far away and how faint it might be.

When the devotee moves just one inch towards the Master the Master will come from across the Universe.

©There is so much to be grateful for when our appreciation is synchronized.™

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Date: Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 09:37:25 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: Hail the Master. For he has opened my eyes.
Message:
I can see, I can see. Oh holy of holies. I am so greatfull and full of gratitude brcuase you were within me all he time and have shown me the post.

Boli Shri Rogerji eDerkji, hi ho.

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Date: Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 02:26:13 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: ted
Subject: Helllooooo, Anyone there.?..nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 21:56:41 (GMT)
From: suchabanana
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: 'Guru Maharaj ji is not hungry of our possessions'
Message:
THE GIVER AND THE GIFT: THE MESSAGE REMAINS THE SAME

'If Guru Maharaj Ji tells us to go to hell, let us go there cheerfully, without any hesitation, for He has the power which can convert hell into heaven. Therefore, my blessed brothers and sisters, obey Guru Maharaj Ji implicitly, serve Him wholeheartedly and love Him for the sake of love alone. Ask nothing, want nothing in return, just devotion. Devote to Him what you have to devote. It will come back multiplied a millionfold, but do not think of that now. Remember! Guru Maharaj Ji is not hungry of our possessions. He is always selfcontented, perfect in His Divinity, His Knowledge is infinite in its application. His soul is the foundation of immortal bliss. What He wants from us is only pure love and devotion, and really He is the only source of love and devotion. We poor people have got nothing but hatred, jealousy, envy, pride and so on. Truly, He loves the whole world selflessly.' -- Charanand article, 1972

Was I out of the loop on the Westport Yacht Project, or what? But, I think I understand. I mean, you know, when the aviation fuel gets too expensive, or the FAA bans another polluting plane (like the 707 - garage sale, anyone?), the Lord might need that funky little 106-foot dinghy to get around -- also, to relax, because it must be awful hard sometimes being Lord of the entire Universe. That's a big job, after all. By the way, what about the suffering in Rwanda, Kosovo, Ethiopia, etc.? Don't ask, don't tell -- Right, I mean, 'if you feed those people today, they'll just be hungry again tomorrow', right? Well, you obviously know what you're talking about, sir...

And you know, 'the guy driving the Lincoln, well he's had money a long long time, but now, the Mercedes -- 'the practical man',' right? But then, I wouldn't know... 'cause we were all bozos on that old VW bus! But, I'm really looking forward to that first million, so I can have the second million to protect the first million, and then the four million to protect the two million, and so forth... Wow, that Maya sure looks nice -- ain't it sweet?!!

I better earn $30 today and apply it toward my first million -- what inspiration! Hey, I don't need the money -- why don't I just give it to the Lord of the Universe. He'll know what to do with it, right?! Yep, I had the honor of polishing that green Rolls Royce with the Hans license plate. Why is it that M., Sai Baba, and the late Rajneesh (Osho) have all favored the most expensive cars in the world? Because they can... They're beyond the Maya [illusion of the material world], right? I mean, after you have one Rolls Royce, then you need an Aston Martin, and then you need a Mercedes, and then you need a Lamborghini, and then you need a G-4 jet, right, to keep up with Bill Gates and the Emir of Dubai. Only the best will do!

Boy, did Buddha, Jesus, Lao'ste, and Ramakrishna miss out!! I mean, Buddha, he renounced an entire kingdom to attain enlightenment and be the satguru. But today, you can have it all -- just like the commercial says, right? When I see Buddha welcoming me in the Light, I'll have to tell him about this for you, sir; he must have been deluded, right? Duh. What inspiration -- this defies all the teachings of the ancients, except Krishna.

Now, wait a second -- if you were something like a reincarnation of Krishna, you could be the Lord and a great rich king, too. Absolutely brilliant idea! But you need the right outfit: the suit and especially the crown, so other people will get the same idea symbolically, too. [Hey, no offense meant: I know it's just a costume, like a cowboy outfit, or a pilot's uniform, after all.]

To provide the lifestyle worthy of the living Lord of the Universe, there must be Devotion [sic 'gratitude' and 'appreciation'] by the premies to the Guru ['Master']. {STOP: wait a sec, nothing in this physical universe is good enough for the Lord of the Universe -- who created it, after all -- from Guru reveals God, to Guru is Greater than God, to Guru is now God in the flesh -- let's apocalyptic Christianize the cult-speak [as Bal Bhagwanji himself inferred], so to speak [for the dumb Westerners], just like the Romans did when they appropriated the Gnostic teachings (Nazarene-Essene).}

Now back to: there must be Devotion by the premies to the Guru. Kind of like Ramakrishna had for his satguru, Tota Puri? Oops, mistake. Ramakrishna met Tota Puri, received the techniques, then after 11 months -- bye bye, guru. 'Tota... had proved, as many others had proved before him, that devotion is not essential for the attainment of the highest spiritual experience.' [quoted from Ramakrishna and his Disciples, by Christopher Isherwood] Please forget I ever mentioned that one, ok? Is that heresy, or what?

Also, didn't Tota Puri eventually come to realize that even a satguru himself is subject to fall prey to the power of Maya (the illusion) -- when his student, Ramakrishna, pointed it out (to him) one time when Tota totally lost his temper? Oops, that would infer that a satguru is not necessarily perfect, and could be tempted by illusion, too, while in a human body. Wasn't Jesus tempted,too? You could be a great king and have power on this earth. Oops, I must be in my mind -- because if I follow this trend, pretty soon I might start thinking that M. is just another person with Knowledge, who fell prey to worldly temptations and is using the Knowledge and his position for his own selfish personal gain in the material world. Oh, please forgive us, for our tormented thoughts... 'GURU MAHARAJ JI IS NOT HUNGRY OF OUR POSSESSIONS'

Never leave room for doubt -- doubts about M., or doubt in our own selves, our own intuition, our own innate intelligence, and in our own mutual Creator?

Dang, with our knowledge gained now, maybe we should have set ourselves up, too. Like that wannabe Nigerian satguru Guru Maharaj ji who was on trial for murder recently. Now, my question is: Was that an imposter, or was it the Lord just manifesting another body? And, if we were all to suddenly become Guru Maharaj ji's, too -- then, wouldn't that be like a manifestation of 10,000 forms of the Lord? Kind of like, the selfish inverse of: I'm Spartacus, no I'm Spartacus, no I'm Spartacus. Our own perfect LILA [divine play/game]

Really now: If someone comes along and shows us something that's already there within us, is it theirs, or their gift? No. Perhaps their showing us might be a gift -- but only if there are absolutely NO strings attached. Now there's the rub, folks. A gift is not a gift, if there are strings attached. repeat: A GIFT IS NOT A GIFT, IF THERE ARE STRINGS ATTACHED.

I clearly remember Fakiranand saying (at my knowledge session), 'If you have millions, give millions.' Who instructed the mahatmas and instructors to direct money, gifts and devotion to M., in return for the Knowledge.

Yeah, 'THE MESSAGE REMAINS THE SAME': 'If you have millions, give millions.'

Peace, my brothers and sisters

s.

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Date: Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 14:39:50 (GMT)
From: bill
Email: None
To: suchabanana
Subject: 'Guru Maharaj ji is not hungry of our possessions'
Message:
Hi suchie.
Good post.
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Date: Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 23:03:10 (GMT)
From: Bin Liner
Email: None
To: suchabanana
Subject: 'Guru Maharaj ji is not hungry of our possessions'
Message:

Difficult to work out who he may be.I sympathise.


Present thinking is JEEZLEBUDH:LORD OF THE SKIES.


Just broken personal agya to myself of only drinking whiskey at weekends.

Good Luck

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Date: Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 10:28:52 (GMT)
From: Tonette
Email: None
To: Bin Liner
Subject: Since you are a most recent ex
Message:
You doing okay there?
Someone close to me is also a most recent ex. He practiced K for 25-26 years. I guess he was having some doubts and after getting a look at this web site and others, stepping back and taking a look see, well he realized K allright! And also crossed over for good. Back into reality. And you know what? He appears to me happier and much better balanced. Is it that way with you?
Sincerely, Tonette
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Date: Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 13:45:34 (GMT)
From: Bin Liner
Email: None
To: Tonette
Subject: Since you are a most recent ex
Message:

Doing fine,thanks.

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Date: Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 12:25:46 (GMT)
From: Tonette
Email: None
To: Tonette
Subject: The FA doesn't mean this one Bin nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 00:47:29 (GMT)
From: Forum Admin
Email: None
To: Bin Liner
Subject: ignore this post
Message:
Forum admin fucked up!

Carry on, gents...

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Date: Mon, Oct 02, 2000 at 15:55:26 (GMT)
From: Forum Admin
Email: None
To: Forum Admin
Subject: ignore this post: clarification...
Message:
I meant ignore my OWN post!

Reading Bin's post in haste, I mistook said gent/lady for one of our persistant premie nuisances. Immediately seeing who the post was from and realising my error, I had to edit my own post.

Anyway, apologies, Bin...

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Date: Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 06:43:26 (GMT)
From: Loaf
Email: None
To: Forum Admin
Subject: ignore this post
Message:
What ??

What happened ??

Did anybody get hurt ?

What !!

Is this part of a self -flaming trend - which I have specialised in on Recent Exes ?

I hate to feel that i've missed out on anything.

Is this the equivilent of sitting in a restaurant and hearing an almighty crash from the kitchen ?

Waiter !

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Date: Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 22:43:47 (GMT)
From: Bin Liner
Email: None
To: Loaf
Subject: ignore this post
Message:

Nothing happened

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Date: Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 09:47:42 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Loaf
Subject: Probably a moan...
Message:
...from a hungover semi-conscious corpse, rather than a crash from the kitchen Loaf.

Anth the moan from work.

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Date: Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 22:47:13 (GMT)
From: Bin Liner
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Probably a moan...
Message:

Oy Less of the corpse shit pal
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Date: Sat, Sep 30, 2000 at 08:12:03 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Bin Liner
Subject: Poetic Licence mate
Message:
...they cost ten quid from the post office- you can write what you like when you 've got one.

Anth in rhyme (some of the time)

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Date: Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 08:13:55 (GMT)
From: Tonette
Email: None
To: Loaf
Subject: Laughing here. Chuckle,chuckle........nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 23:41:05 (GMT)
From: suchabanana
Email: None
To: Bin Liner
Subject: r.e. personal agya
Message:
But was it really good Scotch whiskey, mate?

I'm sitting here right now with an Optimator pint (Spaten of Munich). Heck, even my ol' buddy Charanand likes a nice glass of red wine at dinner or before bed nowadays. [I've heard m. likes good vino and brandy, too.]

Just don't go overboard, friend -- the Golden Mean: nothing in excess. Also, if we thought too hard about what m. might be (and the time, devotion and energy we've invested), it could lead to drowning our sorrows.

So, enjoy this Glenfiddich (or whatever)!

You know, Bin, I'm having more honest fellowship here the last few days than I ever did at those video programs...

God Bless You

Peace

s.

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Date: Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 17:54:38 (GMT)
From: Yves
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Rat diagnosed manic-depressive psychopath
Message:
That was just an attention catcher meant to ge you inside. Post should have said something about

Rawat suspected of deficient brain chemistry.

My argument is he may be manic-depressive psychopath. Here is why and I'd welcome any comment from competent reader on this.

Everyone is invited to send a love-letter to Michael Jackson at the following address:

dettmers@gylanix.com

Someone who fooled so many people for so long, imposed himself as God and rides a 25 000 000U$ airplane need to be a little off. Maniac is my lead. Along with it a depressive propension would complete the picture. Has anyone who knows his day-to-day life be able to confirm this? Manic-depressive individuals often get drunk. He does, doesn't he? They are reported to have strange sexual habits.

Can anyone confirm he has friends, associates with people and comes out much of his castle?

For the psychopath part, my rational is he did so much harm to so many without ever thinking of the consequences, I think he'd fit the psychopath profile. A psychopath is 'against them all' and fighting everyone all the time. My sources tell me his security is quite extensive with coded badges, metal detectors and bodyguards everywhere he goes. Why? Many 'rich and famous' lead a safe life with a much lighter set-up. His obsession with it may, I think, be cured with proper medication. That would free ressources to help his work as 'humanitarian leader'.

On the other hand, could his childish love for playing characters explain all this? When he flies, he dresses as a steward. We've seen pictures of him dressed as Shri Hans (bless you) dressed as Krishna. He even added a red Batman cloak to make his brother jealous.

http://www.ex-premie.org/pages/bkgrnd8.htm

In 1975, we got him an Aston-Martin car just like James Bond. The previous year, we raised funds for a mobile home like those successful Amway reps like to show-off with. If it was the case, chances are his bodyguards wear mirror sunglasses and high-tech ear-pieces. Can anyone confirm this?

We noticed most mafia-lords like to hang-out with famous folks as if it'd give them some legitimacy. Whenever he talks to someone famous, he'd tell about it. That may account for his living in Malibu where the R&F do their groceries.

Mind you most everyone in the family seemed to like to play roles.

Bullshitji seemed to think he was a retarded Elvis.

Rajaji thought he was a speech therapist.

Balbiguanaji sometimes thought he was Jesus. He now pretends to be Shri Hans (bless you).

MataJi thought she was Queen Victoria.

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Date: Mon, Oct 02, 2000 at 12:52:10 (GMT)
From: DeProgram Anand Ji
Email: sharkdc
To: Yves
Subject: Rat diagnosed manic-depressive psychopath
Message:
Bald-a-guan-Gee was the fucking idiot brother who went around telling everyone that aliens would show up at the Houston Astrodome during Millenium 73 and that the Pope would recieve knowledge. If I was M and I was trying keep the con/scam going I would have have had Mahatma Fuck-Her-Anand hit him in the head with a hammer so he'd shut his fuckin mouth! He needlessly raised exspectations high with his crazy false prophesies. With retard brothers like Bald-a-guan-Gee who needs enemies?
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Date: Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 16:25:36 (GMT)
From: Yves
Email: None
To: Yves
Subject: Chances are Baldiguanaji does too
Message:
Let's write him on his webpage and ask news of Trivinanand, Jagdeo, Krishnasukanand
http://www.manavdharam.org/index.html
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Date: Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 16:55:11 (GMT)
From: Matahariji
Email: None
To: Yves
Subject: I'm dead. Leave me alone
Message:
Turn-up the heat.
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Date: Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 16:53:05 (GMT)
From: Bullshitji (Yves)
Email: None
To: Yves
Subject: What happened to fatrat's retarded brother
Message:
We know he managed to purchase a driving liscence from the Kennedy Western University where Michael purchased his MBA.
http://kw.edu/

He bought a yellow cab and is driving pilots from airport to satsang hall. A family memeber which is a speech therapist corrected his defect. He was reported putting a karaoke in cab and lip-synch Elvis while driving.

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Date: Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 16:40:40 (GMT)
From: Ragnagni (Yves)
Email: None
To: Yves
Subject: Baldiguanaji
Message:
I wrote him this again today:

'http://www.ex-premie.org/forum5/main.cgi

I'd like to invite Balbagwan ji to visit the forum where ex-premies discuss the Rawat's family cults, Mata ji's delirium and Balbagwan ji's involvment in it.'

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Date: Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 11:03:26 (GMT)
From: Steve
Email: None
To: Yves
Subject: would you like to take your own medicine ? nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 08:54:29 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Yves
Subject: Why...
Message:
...are you encouraging people to pester Michael Detmers?

You seem to be charging around the place shooting at everything that moves.

Do you and Michael have some bad history between you?

Don't you think you should give people a bit of space when they are trying to leave a cult- rather than attack and harrass them?

Anth (hiding behind the table waiting for another 'bang'.

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Date: Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 13:54:49 (GMT)
From: Yves
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Bang (NT)
Message:
nt
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Date: Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 15:09:30 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: FA
Subject: Help FA. Yves just shot me. (nt)
Message:
...ouch.
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Date: Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 08:34:56 (GMT)
From: Tonette
Email: None
To: Yves
Subject: Wishful thinking
Message:
But not in a long shot. I wish he was a psychopath! He'd be more likely to have a hallucination while flying his plane.
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Date: Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 16:31:17 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Tonette
Subject: Hallucinations are not a symptom of sociopathy (nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 00:49:45 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Yves
Subject: So... BigBaldIguanaJi was Jesus, right? (nt)
Message:
I always get that mixed up...
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Date: Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 14:18:50 (GMT)
From: Yves
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: That's what he said at the time
Message:
The Millenium stage was set-up to look like what the book of revelations described. You knew that?

He now changed character and became Shri Hans (bless you) and his wife look, dress and talk like Mataji. She even is called Mata ji and 'gives satsang' in front a picture of Mataji about Mata ji. Did I take hard drugs lately?

Go on Satpal's webpage. There are videoclips of her

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Date: Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 00:00:11 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: fitzroy@liverpool.ac.uk
To: Yves
Subject: I think you're full of crap, Yves...
Message:
Let's stick to what we can deduce from known facts or testify from personal recollection or medical evidence. You're off the wall here, Yves.

Maha is neither manic-depressive nor psychotic. Problems with social skills, maybe, delusions of grandeur, even, cult member etc - but keep things in proportion, please...

Safer to stick to things you know about (and you've done some good posts when you do just that.)

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Date: Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 01:49:00 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: thanks Nigel
Message:
I didn't appreciate the joke much, having BEEN diagnosed as manic. And they didn't have to see 5 posts per thread to make that diagnoses either :)
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Date: Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 02:34:00 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: thanks Nigel
Message:
You're welcome of course... Actually if M were bipolar he'd be bursting nineteen to the dozen with creative ideas rather than sticking with the time-honoured formula, wouldn't he?

As for psychopath - too silly to think about..

How ya doin?

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Date: Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 02:38:54 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: yeah HA!! creativity is a symptom
Message:
yikes, I can vouch for how creative I've gotten at times :(
I'm OK sorta, just got yet another call from MA. yuck.

I agree that M has no social accountability but it may be plain and simple greed mixed with some bullshit entitlement issues.
Hell who else gets to afford to fly, much less own a Gulfstream all for the price of sitting in front of a few thousand people pretending to teach and lead, for an hour.oh yeah plus video stints and DVD. sigh.

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Date: Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 03:17:54 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: GI JOE can afford it (nt)
Message:
hahahahahaha
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Date: Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 03:36:11 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: SB
Subject: yes but can he...
Message:
fly the plane with one hand? haha!!
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Date: Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 04:18:31 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: yes,and with the other hand what is he doing? (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 10:47:59 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: SB
Subject: Pick his nose?
Message:
Hi SB,

Nice to see you, write and tell me whazup.

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Date: Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 00:43:30 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: Yves never said psychotic, Nigel
Message:
I believe he used the term 'psychopath.' This is a valid term in psychology and criminal justice in the US and is often the official diagnosis when career criminals are examined by the courts here.

I don't think Yves is so off the mark here. It doesn't take a degree to figure out that Rawat does what he does with very few pangs of conscience.

I mean, could YOU do what Rawat is doing?

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Date: Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 01:04:06 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Yves never said psychotic, Nigel
Message:
No, Ger, but being a self-serving cult leader with loads in the bank and less than loads when it comes to social conscience doesn't make you mentally ill (not that I even like the expression 'mental illness'). It's about choice of words, really. You're right that 'psychopath' is not the same as 'psychotic' - but the former is a sub-group of the latter - but neither apply to Maharaji, IMO.

And I think it is an insult to psychopaths to suggest as much (at least they have a proper excuse!)

No - keep things in proportion, I say - forget the psychopathology and other unnecessary clutter and let's deal with someone who is basically a misguided, spoiled brat.

Steal his pocket money would be the best solution...

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Date: Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 01:33:26 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: all
Subject: psychopath
Message:
From www.dictionary.com:

psychopath:

. A person with an antisocial personality disorder,
especially one manifested in aggressive, perverted,
criminal, or amoral behavior.

. someone with a sociopathic personality; a person
with an antisocial personality disorder
(`psychopath' was once widely used but has now been
superseded by `sociopath'

psychosis:

. A severe mental disorder, with or without organic damage,
characterized by derangement of personality and loss of
contact with reality and causing deterioration of normal
social functioning.

. A disease of the mind; especially, a functional mental
disorder, that is, one unattended with evident organic
changes.

. any severe mental disorder in which contact with reality
is lost or highly distorted

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Date: Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 01:28:52 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: The terms are tricky but definite
Message:
Well, I personally think that 'psychopathy,' or, as more currently used now, 'sociopathy,' is the best one word description of Rawat's behavior.

Also, in the States, such a diagnosis is an admission that the defendant is indeed NOT mentally ill. Defense attornies hate to receive this diagnosis of their clients.

And this statement is not quite correct: ...'psychopath' is not the same as 'psychotic' - but the former is a sub-group of the latter...

In loose terms, (premies please note the usage of the word 'loose' you loosers)

A psychotic has lost touch with reality, hallucinates, hears voices, etc. They are sometimes found legally insane and not responsible for their crimes. Or they can be guilty but insane. That's my own person category, btw.

A psychopath has no conscience, and mimics, rather than feels true human emotion. They know the consequence of their actions and are held legally responsible for them. Like goober should be.

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Date: Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 01:43:08 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: 'sociopath' maybe, 'psychopath' no. (nt)
Message:
opiwjf
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Date: Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 01:48:16 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: They mean the same thing, though.
Message:
Sorry to be pedantic, but there's even a third name now, which escapes me at the moment. Kinda like 'crippled' became 'handicapped,' which became 'disabled.'
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Date: Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 02:28:31 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: ooooppppsss
Message:
Just noticed you had 4 posts this thread. I wasn't referring to you above. Just thought I'd clarify that.
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Date: Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 16:37:22 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: ooooppppsss
Message:
No offense taken. How are you doing? My mother had another stroke but wisely refused hospitalization (cat scan, drug battery,etc) this time. What's the deal? People get old, their bodies deteriorate and they die. Why hang on when the quality of life is so poor?


Gerry the has his .38 caliber retirement plan settled...

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Date: Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 16:50:56 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: your retirement plan sounds like mine
Message:
So is your mom still doing ok?

I agree with your retirement plan.
The book Final Exit suggests between 25 and 35 Darvon. Darvon for sme reason is extremely toxic to the system and pretty foolproof, not much danger of puking em up or a coma forever, etc.
I'm gonna follow that premies excellent scoring advice and head on down to Mexico and keep em around, at the inevitible time of my own body mind / health deterioration. Can'd do that for mom though, I 'd get arrested. It always amazes me we treat our pets more humanely at times like this. OK, off soapbox now.

Meanwhile I am on standby to fly back. My sister did this morning she seems convinced this is it. We / she signed the 'no extreme meansures' thing.

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Date: Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 17:03:53 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: your retirement plan sounds like mine
Message:
Mother is hanging in there. Rarely gets out of bed, though.

I was told a horror story by a fellow carny at the Fair last week. Her dad was run through the medical wringer a few months ago. The short of the long was after one month in the hopital when his insurance ran out, they (the doctors) pulled the plug. But not after aqueezing every last dime out of the guy to the tune of over one million dollars...

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Date: Sat, Sep 30, 2000 at 08:10:36 (GMT)
From: ExTex
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: your retirement plan sounds like mine
Message:
I had a friend who had the same thing happen with her grandmother. The lady and my friend both indicated that they wanted her taken off the machines...but the hospital refused to do it UNTIL right as her insurance ran out.

This probabley happens often. Remember that they have thier reasons....most hospitals ARE run as a FOR PROFIT business. They have bills and wages to pay too. (smirk)

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Date: Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 02:07:10 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: They mean the same thing, though.
Message:
Yeah, point taken, Gerry, but do you really think it's useful or meaningful to anyone to portray Maharaji as 'psychopath'?

Maharaji doesn't - and couldn't - do what psychopaths do. Psychopaths couldn't run a halfway efficient cult, and wouldn't even want to. M thrives on adoration - psychopaths are indifferent to what anyone thinks of them. Nuff said?

As for manic-depressive..? - no evidence that I can see. Bad thread.

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Date: Sat, Sep 30, 2000 at 08:13:51 (GMT)
From: ExTex
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: Didn't Hitler fit that description? (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 16:19:19 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: Yeah, narcissitic shithead sounds about right
Message:
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

Where in the world did you get the idea that sociopaths, (I agree it is a better term--less 'psycho' baggage) can't or don't function efficiently in the world ie run a cult, or a company for that matter? They can and do. Also, image is a big part of their act. It matters very much to them what other people think about them. Of course there are degrees of everything.

As far as it being 'useful' to describe goober as a sociopath, yes, I think it is extremely useful in understanding what happened to us and how it happened--in the clutches of a conscienceless man for whom image was everything and all others be damned.

I'm not sure about 'manic-depressive. To me this implies a degree of brain chemistry disruption, something which is often helped by psychotropic drugs. Sociopaths don't usually respond to drugs. They have what is referred to as a 'personality or character' disorder.

Bad thread? Why? I'm fascinated with this stuff and of course, it is speculative, none of us has goober under the microscope or on the couch, but this is as close as we'll ever get. It is kinda fun, once you get the buzz words sorted out.

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Date: Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 03:18:01 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: They mean the same thing, though.
Message:
Even though they might officially (according to some dictionaries) mean the same thing, 'psychopath' has a nastier connotation in common usage than 'sociopath'. The movie 'Psycho' just couldn't have been called 'Socio'. I agree that 'psychopath' doesn't apply to maharaji and using 'sociopath' to describe him is iffy.
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Date: Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 21:41:56 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: gkl1@techline.com
To: G and Nigel
Subject: Now I'm leaning towards Narcisstic v Sociopath...
Message:
though he exhibits traits of both personality disorders.

Excerpts from DSM-IV (emphasis mine)


Antisocial Personality Disorder: Diagnostic Features

The essential feature of Antisocial Personality Disorder is a pervasive pattern of disregard for, and violation of, the rights of others that begins in childhood or early adolescence and continues into adulthood.

This pattern has also been referred to as psychopathy, sociopathy, or dyssocial personality disorder. Because deceit and manipulation are central features of Antisocial Personality Disorder, it may be especially helpful to integrate information acquired from systematic clinical assessment with information collected from collateral sources.

For this diagnosis to be given, the individual must be at least age 18 years and must have had a history of some symptoms of Conduct Disorder before age 15 years. Conduct Disorder involves a repetitive and persistent pattern of behaviour in which the basic rights of others or major age-appropriate societal norms or rules are violated. The specific behaviours characteristic of Conduct Disorder fall into one of four categories: aggression to people and animals, destruction of property, deceitfulness or theft, or serious violation of rules.

The pattern of antisocial behaviour continues into adulthood. Individuals with Antisocial Personality Disorder fail to conform to social norms with respect to lawful behaviour. They may repeatedly perform acts that are grounds for arrest (whether they are arrested or not), such as destroying property, harassing others, stealing, or pursuing illegal occupations. Persons with this disorder disregard the wishes, rights, or feelings of others. They are frequently deceitful and manipulative in order to gain personal profit or pleasure, (e.g., to obtain money, sex, or power).

They may repeatedly lie, use an alias, con others, or malinger. A pattern of impulsivity may be manifested by a failure to plan ahead. Decisions are made on the spur of the moment, without forethought, and without consideration for the consequences to self or others; this may lead to sudden changes of jobs, residences, or relationships.

Individuals with Antisocial Personality Disorder tend to be irritable and aggressive and may repeatedly get into physical fights or commit acts of physical assault (including spouse beating or child beating). Aggressive acts that are required to defend oneself or someone else are not considered to be evidence for this item. These individuals also display a reckless disregard for the safety of themselves or others. This may be evidenced in their driving behaviour (recurrent speeding, driving while intoxicated, multiple accidents). They may engage in sexual behaviour or substance use that has a high risk for harmful consequences. They may neglect or fail to care for a child in a way that puts the child in danger.

Individuals with Antisocial Personality Disorder also tend to be consistently and extremely irresponsible. Irresponsible work behaviour may be indicated by significant periods of unemployment despite available job opportunities, or by abandonment of several jobs without a realistic plan for getting another job. There may also be a pattern of repeated absences from work that are not explained by illness either in themselves or in their family. Financial irresponsibility is indicated by acts such as defaulting on debts, failing to provide child support, or failing to support other dependents on a regular basis.

Individuals with Antisocial Personality Disorder show little remorse for the consequences of their acts. They may be indifferent to, or provide a superficial rationalization for, having hurt, mistreated, or stolen from someone (e.g., 'life's unfair,' 'losers deserve to lose,' or 'he had it coming anyway'). These individuals may blame the victims for being foolish, helpless, or deserving their fate; they may minimize the harmful consequences of their actions; or they may simply indicate complete indifference. They generally fail to compensate or make amends for their behaviour. They may believe that everyone is out to 'help number one' and that one should stop at nothing to avoid being pushed around.

Associated Features and Disorders

Individuals with Antisocial Personality Disorder frequently lack empathy and tend to be callous, cynical, and contemptuous of the feelings, rights, and sufferings of others. They may have an inflated and arrogant self-appraisal (e.g., feel that ordinary work is beneath them or lack a realistic concern about their current problems or their future) and may be excessively opinionated, self-assured, or cocky.

They may display a glib, superficial charm and can be quite voluble and verbally facile (e.g., using technical terms or jargon that might impress someone who is unfamiliar with the topic). Lack of empathy, inflated self-appraisal, and superficial charm are features that have been commonly included in traditional conceptions of psychopathy and may be particularly distinguishing of Antisocial Personality Disorder in prison or forensic settings where criminal, delinquent, or aggressive acts are likely to be nonspecific.

These individuals may also be irresponsible and exploitative in their sexual relationships, They may have a history of many sexual partners and may never have sustained a monogamous relationship. They may be irresponsible as parents, as evidenced by malnutrition of a child, an illness in the child resulting from a lack of minimal hygiene, a child's dependence on neighbours or nonresident relatives for food or shelter, a failure to arrange for a caretaker for a young child when the individual is away from home, or repeated squandering of money required for household necessities.

These individuals may receive dishonourable discharges from the armed services, may fail to be self-supporting, may become impoverished or even homeless, or may spend many years in penal institutions. Individuals with Antisocial Personality Disorder are more likely than people in the general population to die prematurely by violent means (e.g., suicide, accidents, and homicides).

Individuals with this disorder may also experience dysphoria, including complaints of tension, inability to tolerate boredom, and depressed mood. They may have associated Anxiety Disorders, Depressive Disorders, Substance-Related Disorders, Somatization Disorder, Pathological Gambling, and other disorders of impulse control, Individuals with Antisocial Personality Disorder also often have personality features that meet criteria for other Personality Disorders, particularly Borderline, Histrionic, and Narcissistic Personality Disorders.

The likelihood of developing Antisocial Personality Disorder in adult life is increased if the individual experienced an early onset of Conduct Disorder (before age 10 years) and accompanying Attention-Deficit/Hyperactivity Disorder. Child abuse or neglect, unstable or erratic parenting, or inconsistent parental discipline may increase the likelihood that Conduct Disorder will evolve into Antisocial Personality Disorder.


Narcissistic Personality Disorder

A pervasive pattern of grandiosity (in fantasy or behavior), need for admiration, and lack of empathy, beginning by early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by five (or more) of the following:

(1) has a grandiose sense of self-importance (e.g., exaggerates achievements and talents, expects to be recognized as superior without commensurate achievements)

(2) is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love

(3) believes that he or she is 'special' and unique and can only be understood by, or should associate with, other special or high-status people (or institutions)

(4) requires excessive admiration

(5) has a sense of entitlement, i.e., unreasonable expectations of especially favorable treatment or automatic compliance with his or her expectations

(6) is interpersonally exploitative, i.e., takes advantage of others to achieve his or her own ends

(7) lacks empathy: is unwilling to recognize or identify with the feelings and needs of others

(8) is often envious of others or believes that others are envious of him or her

(9) shows arrogant, haughty behaviors or attitudes

American Psychiatric Association. (c) 1994. Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, fourth edition. Washington, DC: American Psychiatric Association.

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Date: Tues, Oct 03, 2000 at 17:52:22 (GMT)
From: Janet of Venice
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Now I'm leaning towards Narcisstic v Sociopath...
Message:
thank you for posting both definitions in their entirety. I'm going to print them out and put them up. You know, it is possible to suffer form both disorders concurrently. one has to do with how one feels about oneself (narissism), the other has to do with how one feels about others(antisocial or sociopathic).revisit my posting elsewhere re a child given total power at the age of eight becoming a monster.
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Date: Sat, Sep 30, 2000 at 03:59:46 (GMT)
From: la-ex
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Leave no room for doubt: he is NARCISSISTIC!!!.
Message:
after reading your definition of narcissistic,is there any doubt about it?
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Date: Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 22:11:01 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: all
Subject: goober qualifies for sociopathy!
Message:
Antisocial Personality Disorder

The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Fourth Edition describes Antisocial Personality Disorder as a pervasive pattern of disregard for and violation of the rights of others occurring since age 15 years, as indicated by three (or more) of the following:

failure to conform to social norms with respect to lawful behaviors as indicated by repeatedly performing acts that are grounds for arrest; (maybe)

deceitfulness, as indicated by repeated lying, use of aliases, or conning others for personal profit or pleasure; (definitely)

impulsivity or failure to plan ahead; (don't know)

irritability and aggressiveness, as indicated by repeated physical fights or assaults; (definitely: stories of his punching people who would never think of fighting back)

reckless disregard for safety of self or others; (definitely-Decca for example)

consistent irresponsibility, as indicated by repeated failure to sustain consistent work behavior or honor financial obligations; (probably)

lack of remorse, as indicated by being indifferent to or rationalizing having hurt, mistreated, or stolen from another. (definitely)

The individual is at least 18 years, there is evidence of Conduct Disorder with onset before age 15 years, and the occurrence of antisocial behavior is not exclusively during the course of Schizophrenia or a Manic Episode.

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Date: Mon, Oct 02, 2000 at 12:33:40 (GMT)
From: JohnT
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: thanks for the excellent posts, gerry!
Message:
This one and that one, I mean.

Sociopaths have as much of an instinct for self-preservation as the rest of us - so no, they do not necessarily go around committing senseless and gory crimes for kicks. Sociopath does not mean 'sadist' after all.

Heartless types with no shame or conscience (sociopaths) do not always fall foul of the law or get into trouble. But I reckon they almost always cause trouble.

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Date: Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 04:51:25 (GMT)
From: la-ex
Email: None
To: G
Subject: I'd vote for sociopath,narcissistic,asshole.
Message:
in that order
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Date: Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 02:31:58 (GMT)
From: Tonette
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: I agree nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 13:02:38 (GMT)
From: Collins Dictionary
Email: None
To: Tonette
Subject: I agree
Message:
sociopath n. Psychiatry. a person who is likely to perform antisocial actions or crimes. Compare psychopathic personality.

psychopathic personality. n. Psychiatry. an antisocial personality characterised by the failure to develop any sense of moral responsibility and by the capability of performing violent or antisocial acts.

JohnT comments: He has no heart. He acts without conscience.

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Date: Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 18:21:01 (GMT)
From: Yves
Email: None
To: Yves
Subject: I suspect Rajjaji must visit forum on occasions
Message:
Just an induction knowing the guy is bright enough to operate a computer and has a responsible attitude towards the mess his brother is stirring. An acquaintance who sometimes visit the forum (wink-wink, nudge-nudge, say-no-more-say-no-more) had a conversation with him during which we said he was aware the whole thing is a scam but a)excused their lies with the education they had received and b)asked not to expect his brother to ever face the fact he isn't god. (Correct me if I'm wrong.) This conversation must have been reported before. I'd like to read it. Would anyone please help me find it?

Anyways. If Rajaji reads this, I'd like to say hello and give him my email address:

montreal.quebec@usa.net

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Date: Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 16:12:28 (GMT)
From: Rajaji (Yves, really)
Email: None
To: Yves
Subject: Weng booboo gnagnaraje ouane threen peaks fong u
Message:
Weng booboo gnagnaraje ouane threen peaks fong u (When my brother want to speak to you) heel dusso rom izis sole. (He'll do so from his soul.)
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Date: Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 17:28:51 (GMT)
From: Gregg
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Millennium Madness
Message:
I was reading some stuff about that Astrodome Millennium thing the other day and I had this thought: 'Jeez, if only I'd known, back in the fall of 1974 when I started listening to satsang, about all this hideously wacky cult madness around this 1973 Houston event, maybe I wouldn't have taken leave of my senses and become a devotee.'

Just as we expect that if we let aspirants and premies know about all the foot-kissing and blubber-worshipping, they might have second thoughts.

Then it occurred to me: I DID KNOW! And I joined anyway! How stupid is that!

Just as in the year 2000, PWK's and wannabe PWK's know very well about their Master's previous gig as Lord. They deny it to the public, of course, and maybe some of them are in internal denial about it. And we've seen the irrational rationalizations. ('All those burned-out hippies really overdid it with this worshipping stuff and Maharaji just went along with it.')

But the fact is that reason, logic and common sense all take a back seat to the emotional need to be in a cult with an ever-loving Father figure.

The boy Satguru, Saviour of the world: look at him today. What a long strange (and luxurious, for Him) trip it has been.

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Date: Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 18:28:58 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Gregg
Subject: Millennium Madness
Message:
Gregg,

I agree that most of what getting into a cult is about is wishful thinking. If you want something bad enough, that appears to be a simple solution to unhappiness, self-hatred and feelings of lack of purpose, you can rationalize, repress and overlook quite a lot, like we all did. This is the same process you have to utilize to remain a premie as well. You have to screen and mitigate the negative information, or you can't stay in the cult.

But there is something different now. Now, there are a bunch of people who used to be in the cult who can speak from personal experience why it is all bosh. That didn't exist in 1973, or to the extent it did it was small, drowned out by the hysteria of it all, and there was no organized way to communicate to aspirants and questioning premies.

But it is true; the thing Maharaji has going for him is that there are people who want the fairy tale very badly to be true, and will ignore everything to the contrary to believe in it. It's sad but true. But I think these are a relatively small number of people.

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Date: Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 14:35:23 (GMT)
From: Yves
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Roger secret technique revealed
Message:
Visit the following site:

http://www.oz.net/~drek/

Click on the M character. It will reveal some unsuspected page. I never was so excited since the Indiana Jones computer game.

Then... I discovered three other secret doors. Prizes will be given to whoever find them first.

Here are some hints:
Woody the jerk
Right boop
Wrong boop

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Date: Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 16:13:47 (GMT)
From: Yves
Email: None
To: Yves
Subject: Roger, you can run but you can't hide
Message:
We know everything about you.
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Date: Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 15:36:13 (GMT)
From: Tonette
Email: None
To: Yves
Subject: You forgot one.
Message:
The groin or crotch. Don't click too far folks!
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Date: Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 18:32:16 (GMT)
From: Yo
Email: None
To: Tonette
Subject: You forgot one.
Message:
I had missed it. Thanks to you, I now have found it. Amazing Tonette.
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Date: Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 20:50:57 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: drek@oz.net
To: Yo
Subject: Yup, somebody hacked my site again
Message:
There is some malicious evil person who keeps hacking my webpage with those little easter eggs that lead to pejorative and disgusting images of Maharaji.

I've all but given up trying to keep Roger's House of Maharaji Drek a family webpage.

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Date: Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 17:21:32 (GMT)
From: Yves
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: About this one
Message:
Right boop gets you to 'Reach into the jar for what Maharaji has to offer' and then <*href='http://www.oz.net/~drek/pics/the_finger.jpg'>Utterly shocking

What did I do wrong here?

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Date: Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 13:46:02 (GMT)
From: Yves
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: Lowlife disgusting worm-kissing part of dejection
Message:
Whoever it is who hacks your page which could be found at

http://www.oz.net/~drek

is disgusting.

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Date: Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 09:50:38 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: I'll never...
Message:
...look a Great Dane in the eye again without thinking of you Roger.

Anth the Animal

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Date: Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 11:26:14 (GMT)
From: Forum Administrator
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: To 'Dido babar Lionheart'
Message:
Yes, we deleted your post, and also the complaint you posted today.

If you have a problem with forum policy please contact us by email.

If you only want to abuse other forum members and have nothing to say about Maharaji or EV, please use the 'Anything Goes' forum.

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Date: Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 07:25:37 (GMT)
From: suchabanana
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: stage alumni reunions at programs
Message:
Hey, I've got a cool idea!

Anyone with old Krishna, Holi, or mala t-shirts, Lord of the Universe buttons, M. necklaces, etc. -- just show up at an introductory or aspirant program (or tour event) all decked out, and at the end of each video (or speaker) yell: Bolie shri satgurudev maharaj kai jai!

If someone comes up to and says something negative, just say, 'Like, what's your problem, anyway? I'm just here to see the living Lord of the Universe and feel the bliss. What's the matter? Don't you feel the bliss, too? 'The Message remains the same', right? Don't be in your mind, brother [or sister].'

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Date: Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 13:47:26 (GMT)
From: Yves
Email: None
To: suchabanana
Subject: It's expensive to go there
Message:
Good try but I wouldn't pay the rat even to make trouble since there is so much free trouble available.
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Date: Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 14:56:01 (GMT)
From: bill
Email: None
To: Yves
Subject: It's expensive to go there
Message:
New people wont get it and you are certainly well equipped to write a good handout to distribute after the 'event' along with a few helpful volunteers from any local christian group to do leaflet distribution for you. That way you swamp the security goon squads efforts to get in your way.

Why dont you try to start on the road of having a website.
Sir David or His royal Drekness are a wealth of web site knowledge.

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Date: Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 07:23:00 (GMT)
From: Loaf
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Harrogate
Message:
Harrogate also was not full

I will try to make sense of what my impressions were - please don't be in too much of a hurry to flame me - I am just going to make statements of how i feel about it NOW.

It is the dominance of the subjective over the objective which is one of the hallmarks of K, M and probably all Cultish Belief sytems.

Its hard to know which of my impressions is the perceptive !!
I'll list them in no particular order.

Bear in mind that I'm a bit off balance through having practiced and will slowly be recovering my equilibrium over the next 12 months.

Premies are in a bad way en masse - white faced, balding and with some emotional displacement thing going on which makes them fawning and zombie like, pious and SMUG (Thats the word I was after !!)

K video was - repetative, functional (no mood to it other than his patronising voice over) - but the practice felt nice. ( I tried not to snore when I slipped away for a moment or two)

The pre programme atmosphere registration, check in (I got a horrid hospital arm band put on me ) anaemic,culturally bereft, insipid church fete sales area with old products displayed on heavily over staffed tables.

Anyay i digress - but its all sad and desperate and NEEDY.

The 'walk in music' was drippy and repugnent - milking peoplefor every drop of gratitude.

Not a balanced or healthy diet. Spiritual McDonalds.

After the practice there was a video of a really nice song sung by daya (We might have liked almost anything 'moody' by that stage -and a video of soft focus slides of m - more gratitude milking, and making sure that after practice we were all very suseptable to having his face implanted in a deep and tender place.

MASS HYPNOTISM MORE CLEARLY THAN EVER

Then there was a break during which i avoided most people.

Knowledge is somehow solid and present - but not healthy to obsess about it. Its a bit like being a fan of Oxygen.

After the break a TRULY AWFUL VIDEO - So slaes orientated and trying to make us feel how go ahead and excited we all are about events all over the world. There were only two they could find to talk about - and it was utter sattellite selling SHITE.

I realised (andbegan to dread)that M having an audience of Premies only will talk about synchronisation or what a thrusting Guru he is and how much money is needed.

But he didnt Bless him. He got me on his side immediately ( I WONDER IF THIS WAS INTENTIONAL ??) BY walking on slowly - (In Theatre work I am always impressed by how quickly we 'read' each other - sitting down and saying..

'I was just wondering what all that (the video) had to do with Knowledge'

A skillful shot. Perfectly placed to accomplish a number of things - distance himself from the sales culture and the money - and let us know that he is on 'our' side.

But it worked. He is a consummate performer - and I advise everyone to go and hear him and to hear his skill in using his voice and considerable charm and charisma.

It is the voice of Saruman.

Seriously I was totally without feeling for him for the first half hour or so, but at just the right time, he dropped down a gear, and was seriously funny. He would make a very good comedian and after dinner speaker should all this fall through... WAIT A MINUTE -

THATS WHAT HE DOES !!!

That is his job. To entertain. It was SO interesting to go and observe the mechanisms at work. He really is very good at what he does, a master at it.

It is no more selfish than any other fan club.

But Gratitude Milking is his Business.

All the demonising stuff is just building a picture of him that is larger and more powerful than he is. Go and see him chaps -it slays a demon - and you have to respect the guy for working his franchise as well as he does.

No devotion. No Guru, no teacher, no preacher. Just a skilled performer and psychological manipulator. IT is fascinating to watch.

I also got a sense in the early stages of his address, of how tired he is of the whole thing, and how much he despises the premies.

He is a Very very good actor - who can let you READ a lot of what you want to see into what he does.

Just what I have tried to do in this post.

He didn't put a foot wrong. I only wished I'd had a class of Theatre students with me for the day. Done them the world of good.

A masterclass indeed.

I'm sorry if this is too full af admiration - I don't think it makes me a PREMIE - but the man's SKILL and Discretion as a performer has to be admired - and this is not based on any WHO he is shit - but just What he did.

It was so nice to go there and see the little man behind the curtain.

I think the curtain should be taken down for good.

Loaf

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Date: Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 19:55:00 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Loaf
Subject: Did he 'dance?' (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Sat, Sep 30, 2000 at 05:51:46 (GMT)
From: Loaf
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Did he FUCK (nt)
Message:
erm....
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Date: Sat, Sep 30, 2000 at 22:52:25 (GMT)
From: anon
Email: None
To: Loaf
Subject: Ask Monica (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 17:18:56 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Loaf
Subject: Sorry, but I think you're missing the point
Message:
In normal circumstances, one could credit the performer for the crowd's reaction. If they laughed a lot, one could safely assume that he was funny. If they paid rapt attention to him, one could safely assume that he was interesting. If he triggered loud, vigorous applause, one could safely assume that he was somehow inspiring.

But not with a cult leader.

Here's what I think. I think that you can't judge Maharaji's ability to 'work a room' here anymore than you can judge someone's stage persona by how confidantly they sing in the shower. The real test is in the outside world.

Maharaji's premies are so locked into playing their parts as extensions of his own fantasy that their facial reactions when they see him aren't really their own. They're on hire to the guru, everyone bent over backwards to play out his dream. They don't laugh at his jokes because they're funny so much as because they can feel that they're supposed to. That's why they often start laughing, if I recall, before the joke's even gotten close to the funny part. They know they're in 'guru joke reception mode' and they act accordingly.

And it's like that for every one of the three or four emotions the cult's trained them to respond to.

No, I wouldn't be willing to give Maharaji any credit for any thespian, public-speaking, comedic or inspirational talents in that weird cult atmosphere, anymore than I'd give Bhole Ji credit for ripping up some simply 'excellent' music when he put together that band of dental hygenist look-a-likes, Blue Aquarius. Both acts would wither in seconds in front of a non-cult audiience. Just like Maharaji's poetry, such as exists on his web site, isn't meant for mass consumption. You'd never say that his poetry 'had something' even though I'm sure many a premie sighs and maybe even weeps when they read it. In fact, it's junk. Well my guess is that his 'performance' isn't really any better.

That's why the 'heckling' question is such a good one. Give the heckler a mike and let him dialogue with Maharaji. Let the heckler hang in there after the initial one-liner from the guru. The show would fall apart in moments. Don't believe me? Try it next time.

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Date: Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 17:21:26 (GMT)
From: Loaf
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Good points
Message:
I did say that I had practiced and gone a bit dreamy didn't I..

Don't say I didn't warn you.

You are spot on, of course.

Loaf

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Date: Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 11:35:51 (GMT)
From: bongo
Email: None
To: Loaf
Subject: Harrogate
Message:
Loaf Ji! I'll take your advice and do it for the therapy.
What a brash philistine man we have on our hands! I (being also a theatre director with an interest in voice body etc.) squirmed and giggled my way through, staggered at the utter crassness of it all.I would love to be as specific as you, but I cant stop laughing and falling about at the memory of practically every second of it all! Even now, my hands are shaking and my eyes are filling up with mirth. One spectacular example of the flaccidity of it all that I CAN summon up, is the sweet little private flirtations that go on with the front row! I got the impression that had M. dropped dead in mid discourse, they would have rushed the stage, eaten him, and carried on working the crowd. (after a thinly disguised but vicious battle for the chair.)
Having said all this(ther's plenty more) I think that the sad truth is that he is on the right lines. I remember a sequence in 'Soylent Green' where a video was shown to the no-hopers, to encourage them to kill themselves as they were a waste of space or something. The time will come when what we saw at harrogate will seem very high indeed and great value for money.
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Date: Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 17:18:59 (GMT)
From: Loaf Ji
Email: None
To: bongo
Subject: Mirth !!!
Message:
You dare to laugh at the sacred cow ?!

How do you compare your reaction to this programme of dibine wisdom (which was no worse than usual- just a bit sadder really) with others.

How can you call him crass when his poetry was so lovely.

Its people like you that stopped him dancing !

It sounds to me that you had undergone a deep personal shock just prior to his entering the stage. Some catastrophic news perhaps ??

Obviously this was colouring your devotion with emotion.

Best Mirthful Avionics

Loaf !!!

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Date: Sat, Sep 30, 2000 at 11:11:47 (GMT)
From: Bongo
Email: None
To: Loaf Ji
Subject: Mirth !!!
Message:
Yes Loaf,MIRTH! The real thing.
You are right I had been disappointed before the program started, and my megalomania was smarting badly. But to suddenly come into the presence of such a pro soon had me back on my feet.
I confess that I am looking back on twenty seven years of total delusion! Still what the hell eh?
Harrogate seems like a long time ago. A nightmare forgotten-a bad shag with a stranger. What's next then?? Let me at it. I am grateful for the space. Hooorah for Elvis, the baby Jesus, Me, the brain that functions,Slim Shady(the real Slim Shady that is),
William Shakespeare,and Mrs T.E. Etherington of 29 The Gardens,Fosdike Way, Southport,Lancashire. Bless us all.
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Date: Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 08:45:26 (GMT)
From: Tonette
Email: None
To: Loaf
Subject: Very insightful and great perspective
Message:
Part of your post reminded me of the time I took my brother to a program in Miami. He wasn't even an aspirant but went along for the ride. Was it 1978 or 79? Doesn't matter. I remember him telling me that everyone there in the Miami Beach Convention Center under mass hypnosis. He made this statement during the darshan line up. I thought it was bullshit at the time but not entirely because it sure set some 'doubts flitting through my mind.' I should thank him for that next time I talk to him and ask him why exactly he didn't take me kicking and screaming to the nearest deprogrammer. Glad I can laugh about it now but boy was I stupid! Kinda embarrassing, you know?
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Date: Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 21:07:32 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: fitzroy@liverpool.ac.uk
To: Loaf
Subject: Skilled performer?
Message:
Hi Loaf,

Great live report, and some very sharp observations - in many ways this is exactly what current premies need to read: you're so obviously not a seasoned old cynic, nor living in the past.

I especially enjoyed the 'Saruman' reference.

One minor quibble - though this is very much 'subjective' territory, and I'm not a practising thespian (with arcane, kinky books on my top shelf...)

Is M really a skilled performer, or a one-trick pony? I wonder how much of whatever you felt was anything more than a conditioned response, a learned emotional-response script that enables you to tolerate what, to the outsider, might be intolerable.

Yes, I think you should get some drama students to at least watch a video, and see whether they can spot the charm. See whether they are thrown by the inarticulacy - the pauses - the false starts and lack of structure...

M learned the part the 'method' way, by living the part, becoming the part. It is the only part he can play. His acquired library of vedic legends, anecdotes and parables is his 'Complete Works of...' He can dip freely into any of them like an old Shakespearean tart.

But surely this one role is his prison. When donations dry up, whose movie will he then star in? At which academy will he teach?

If you think of accomplished talents like Billy Crystal or Dustin Hoffman (pick your own) - you can put them on a chat show, get them to do a wedding speech, stand them on a street corner and they could entertain until the cows come home.

As skilled performers go, M is more like those one-part actors in a TV soap. Maybe Bennie from Crossroads, or Rod the Plod from Brookside, Walter Gabriel... Accomplished enough in that one situation, but no versatility, no hidden depths, no obvious creativity. Vanish forever when the job ends. (As it surely will..!)

Just my opinion, of course. But neat post anyway. Thanks.


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Date: Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 18:00:59 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: Can you imagine him in League of Gentlemen? ! (nt)
Message:
Look out Royston Vazey!
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Date: Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 21:29:52 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: Hmm, could he deal with hecklers..? (nt)
Message:
sdfvs
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Date: Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 06:27:23 (GMT)
From: Loaf
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: NOT A CHANCE !!!
Message:
Dear Nigel

I regarded him more in terms of performance qualities, than in his acting.

His skill comes in playing his one tune carefully.

You are annoyingly insightful in reminding me that actors need play a huge range of tunes simultaniously.

He is totally method. You are quite right. like HRH.

But he is a better performer (nowadays) than the Queen.

He uses a variety of tactics, rhythms, pauses to attract - and then when he senses the time is right - to 'catch' the attention of the audience.

You know when you are doing any public speaking that you can feel when you've 'got them'

Or in most cases Nige, when you've 'lost 'em' and your palms go sweaty and you dry up.

(kinky ?!!)

Loaf

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Date: Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 06:50:37 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: None
To: Loaf
Subject: NOT A CHANCE, indeed !!!
Message:
Kinky ref to book about 'unusual sexual practices' you cited below! Nose-jobs etc :)
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Date: Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 19:27:34 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Loaf
Subject: Harrogate
Message:
Thanks also from me for the report. Like Way, I never considered Maharaji to have much in the way of humor, nor did I ever think he had much in the way of speaking skills or charm, although I guess that's subjective. This was the source of a lot of pain for me when I was a premie. I always had to repress how incoherent and inept I thought Maharaji was, because I believed he was the incarnation of God, so, therefore, by definition, any imperfections I saw were due to my perception, not to the reality.

It is also my recollection that Maharaji has always implied that he was critical of the way the 'organization' did things, like Like when you said he made a joking criticism of the video. He used to say similar things about the Initiators, about the organization of programs, about the propogation materials, etc., etc. It wasn't out and out criticism, but there was always the implication that it wasn't exactly right and that he wasn't responsible for whatever it was.

This is, of course, deceitful nonsense, especially now, because no video would reach the light of day without his approval of every second of the production by Maharaji himself, and explicit approval of exactly when and to whom the video was to be shown.

Maharaji also rarely let pleas for money cross his holy lips, but at the same time, behind the scenes, Maharaji spoke of almost nothing other than MONEY, that there wasn't enough MONEY coming in, and how could he get more MONEY. But to the general population of gullible premies who never saw this side of maharaji, he went on that he couldn't care less about that, and he was just focused on peace and love. It's a true con game because those tables loaded with trinkets for sale that you saw, those overpriced satellite feeds, those video sales, and those campaigns to hit up rich and not-so-rich premies for money so they can demonstrate 'gratitude' and 'participation' come right from HIM. Believe me. That was true 20 years ago, and it's probably even more true now.

I'm also not so sure that Maharaji is really that good as a 'psychological manipulator.' Sure, he has had a lot of practice, but he is only successful, to the degree he is, among those people who already BELIEVE in him, who very much WANT to be manipulated by him, and who will overlook ANY failures on his part, no matter what.

And if I may say so, even among ex-premies, when you see Maharaji there is likely still a part of you that wants to give in to him and try to get the juice. This is so thoroughly programmed into a premie, that it's hard to get rid of, although I think the longer you are away, the less likely it is to happen.

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Date: Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 20:01:09 (GMT)
From: Loaf
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Harrogate
Message:
Its great fun reading the replies to my post -

Thanks Joe. I'm easing myself out by opening my eyes. I have a lot of internal reluctance to a 'shock horror i've been duped' realisation.

This is based as much on not wanting to admit to being THAT stupid - as it is on not wanting to give up on a former lover.

The charm thing is pretty recent though. I always found him an arrogant and charmless screamer until fairly recently.

Loaf

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Date: Sun, Oct 01, 2000 at 05:09:04 (GMT)
From: bill
Email: None
To: Loaf
Subject: Harrogate
Message:
Hi Loaf,
It would not be good if he is getting good at this devious business of his.
You know, when I was here at the forum while leaving the cult, I saw a video and realized the audience on the video was laughing at things when with my vantage point of the video, I could see that rawat wasnt being funny.
He himself was not getting the jokes, I was rather amazed at the way us premies project our programmed view of him and react from that view even though.....I dont think I am saying this well.
I am not saying that is what happened to you at the event you went to. But premies certainly are caught in a cheering section dilemma. The 'master of life' is a special creature of deceit and all these years could unfortunately end up making him a formidable snare ruining more lives for his delusional view of life and himself.
Best to you Loaf!

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Date: Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 15:58:42 (GMT)
From: Way
Email: None
To: Loaf
Subject: Thanks Loaf
Message:
Loaf,

Thanks for attending the program and listing your impressions/reactions. It is very rare for an ex-premie to attend an event and then report back here.

Your post is very interesting, but a little baffling to me at times. I think I would have had very different impressions at some points. I suppose that the range of reactions to Rawat and his programs is very wide.

Personally, I never had any appreciation of Rawat's humor, either the style of presentation or the content (especially the content). The making fun of normal human activity from a supposedly higher perspective always struck me as merely condescending rather than insightful. But I know I have an unusual, and rather dull, sense of humor. At my next to last program, I remember Rawat had the crowd laughing (except me) with actual potty jokes. I couldn't believe the juvenile quality of his discourse. (And I would never use the phrases 'his voice' and 'charm' in the same sentence).

Also, when Rawat came out and said that he was wondering what the video had to do with Knowledge, he would have lost me immediately: If you don't know, Mr. Masterful, who does? Is it your presentation or not? Are you criticizing premies' efforts, or what? And what the hell do you mean by 'Knowledge' anyway, you fat...

But I do agree entirely that Maharaji is very skilled at the kind of vagueness that allows people to read alot into what he is saying, (which is something else I hate). And I congratulate you, Loaf, for having a thick enough skin to attend the event, and thanks again for your report.

The British premies so far have not expressed their effusive appreciation at ELK. I suppose they will agree that Rawat is 'seriously funny' but will probably conclude contrarily that the show must go on. (sigh)

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Date: Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 18:44:49 (GMT)
From: Loaf
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: Thanks Loaf
Message:
I do see what you mean about his humour - the last prog i went to he just rubbed me up the wrong way from start to finish - but i wasn't so much anti this time as intrigued to observe and learn - I suppose because i was feeling that i had dealt with a lot of anger -

anyhow he was funny - in a sort of jackie mason way.

Well - I thought so.

Mind you - I even found it funny (rather than annoying) that he was criticising books which say things like

'lose yourself and you will find everything'

Which is exactly the sort of facile shite he trades in.

And just check the video titles if you dont believe me or have forgotten the books of quotes and misty photographs of a few years ago folks.

Barf bags to Block J Row c seat 7 please.

Re his voice - as a theatre director who takes a professional interest in the power and use of the voice, rhythms and intonations - I could 'see' what he was doing - and admired it enormously. Gone is the shrill teenager - what we have here is a very skilled and practiced manipulator of mood and tone.

The people who havn't seen him since the 80s or even the mid 90s would realise that he has picked up and mastered a few techniques. Very impressive and his Self confidence as a performer is wonderful - and such certainty can give the slightly internally wobbly (ie the audience) the impression that 1. you know what you are talking about and that 2 it is 'true'.

U.S. Presidents do the same thing in much more critical circumstances - M has an audience rendered un-hostile by 4 techniques of disorientation - and deals in entirely un-contentious issues. It is what he doesn't talk about that people need to take exception to.

Its a conjouring trick. watch the birdy whilst i pick your pocket.

Thanks for your feedback.

Loaf

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Date: Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 17:30:51 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Loaf
Subject: OK, I confess...
Message:
Until Selene (or someone else) sent me a tape of rawrat in Long Beach 96, I hadn't heard the greasy one speak since Millenium.

I was quite impressed. Not with the content, but the style.

I immediately thought that he had been coached and trained by people who knew what they were doing. He had it down pat. The pauses, the repetition, the rising and falling of his voice-not unlike a fundamental preacher- not mere happenstance.

The nerdy grade school grad didn't figure this out for himself. Although there was little he could do about the quality of his voice, he had obviously learned from some source how to entrance and entrain people with his speech. Not that it's a big secret how to do this, and rawrat has all the resources at his disposal to be coached by the very best. It showed.

Still though, I had to watch the video when Patty was out of the house. She couldn't stand the sound of his voice...

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Date: Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 17:47:59 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: neither could I
Message:
Those tapes had sat in a garbage bag in the bottom of my closet for months and months, all the while I'm thinking I'm still a premie and feeling guilty as hell. Some of them had been a gift some of them were borrowed by someone else and then passed on to me, none had been bought by me and I didn't know what to do with em. I hated watching them and felt guilty throwing them away, kinda like throwing a crucifix in the trash or whatnot.
This time of trasitioning out of a cult is so strange and it was this forum that helped me see where I was at, and more importantly where I could go.
Hope you didn't get the lipstick smeared ones, that would have made Patty really sick! :)
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Date: Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 21:05:05 (GMT)
From: Way
Email: None
To: Loaf
Subject: Thanks again Loaf
Message:
Thanks for your response. I'm less baffled. I think we all have to admit that Rawat has some superficially positive qualities - like self-confidence. But even then I would have to say that self-confidence taken to the extreme of God-incarnates is pathological.

Last week our American televion channel A&E had on their biography series five programs of extreme power - Sadam Hussein, Idi Amin, the Romania guy whose name I certainly can't spell, Milosevek, and Pal Pot. I noticed that each of them exuded complete self-confidence. They each had that look in their eye and expression on their face that I saw in Rawat in the darshan line.

A theatre director, eh?...

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Date: Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 14:36:26 (GMT)
From: PCH
Email: None
To: Loaf
Subject: Harrogate..to summarize
Message:
so, to make a long story short:
1) you enjoyed practicing
2) you liked the video they showed after the practice
3) you enjoyed Maharaji's speech
4) you noticed a discrepancy between the 'demonized' image you had of him and the real thing

good effort at trying to rationalize all this, though

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Date: Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 18:54:53 (GMT)
From: Loaf
Email: None
To: PCH
Subject: Paul daniels and Debbie McGee
Message:
1. Yes - but than i usually do.

2. I would have liked to see the one with the bowl of cornflakes in it better.

3. I admired his technique. I can also admire a shark.

4. The demonized image was not so much mine as the post 73 spectre who haunts the forum, which denies M any skill or credit on principle. I will not like or dislike him JUST to be politically correct - that way lies the horrors of ELK.

I wasn't trying to rationalise - just be personally honest that its not simplistic or black and white for me. I am mature enough to admire Paul Daniels without wanting to turn into Debbie McGee.
This is lost on non-brits probably - Daniels is a short, ageing balding magician - and mcGee his 30 years younger assistant turned wifey.

Loaf

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Date: Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 21:13:17 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: fitzroy@liverpool.ac.uk
To: Loaf
Subject: Mrs Merton meets Debbie McGee..
Message:
(This will also be lost on non-Brits)

Mrs Merton kicked off the interview with:

'So what first attracted you to multi-millionaire Paul Daniels?'

Made me laugh.

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Date: Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 22:40:30 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: British Television -- outrageous (and to Way)(OT)
Message:
You're right; the Merton and McGee references were lost on me. But are you referring to British television.

Okay, so somebody sent me a video of 6 hours of a comedy that is apparently appearing on British television (Channel 4), which I understand is comparable in some ways to the Fox Network over here, in that it's a little more tasteless that the rest of the pulp on American television.

Anyhow, it's a series called 'Queer as Folk,' that even to my gay sensibilities, kind of shocked me. I mean, it has explicit, and I mean explicit, gay sex, amazing language, and it just incredibly GAY!!! Keep in mind that in the USA, I don't think two men have ever been shown on national television. We have had lesbian kissing a few times, a la Ellen Degeneress, but even on our supposedly 'gay' sitcoms like Will & Grace, the gay men seem to live in celibate-land most of the time. Cable maybe, but the networks are really freaked to do much more.

I have watched 7 of the 12 episodes, and I must say I'm hooked. Great writing, great acting, and, it's astounding, although I thought the Brits didn't actually use the word 'shagging' anymore; that it went out in the 60s.

My question is: Does this REALLY appear on British television? Do you know?

Way, you REALLY have got to see this series.

BTW, I am told there is an American 'Queer as Folk' that is going to be on the Showtime Cable channel, but something tells me it will be watered-down.

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Date: Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 14:54:08 (GMT)
From: Way
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: television notes
Message:
Thanks for the tip. I, too, am surprised by these accounts of British TV being so much more open these days. I am planning a trip with a female co-worker to England next May, so I am of course glad to hear about the advanced social freedoms there, although I'm now wondering what that means for the famous British reserve and tradition, which is a major tourist pull. I am sending my traveling companion all these posts here about England (but not about the guru).

As for American television, I almost never watch the networks anymore, not even Will and Grace. I am, however, aware of many of the plotlines for Will and Grace, since a co-worker insists on telling me all about them. I mostly watch cable. During dinner, I do sometimes catch Bruce Vilanch on Hollywood Squares, on ABC. (I saw his one-man show in the Village last May). They've had Greg Louganis on recently and also that gay Survivor winner Rich somebody. That show is very gay-friendly and kinda funny, although Whoopie Goldburg is the center square and she kinda annoys me. By the way, next Monday, American network televion is showing the first male beauty pagent, for whatever that's worth.

I will certainly keep my eye open for any possibility of seeing Queer as Folk. Thanks.

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Date: Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 16:41:25 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: The incredible boredom of Will and Grace
Message:
I don't know if 'Queer as Folk' is still running. I hope it is. Also, keep your eyes open on Showtime for the American version. I may get cable just to be able to see it.

I don't understand the attraction of Will & Grace, nor why it won a bunch of Emmys, which I heard it did. Will and Grace are just essentially following the same tired sitcom formula of a married couple, only Will happens to be Gay. The supporting characters are hysterical, but poor Will has no sex life whatsoever, although I guess towards the end of the last season Will actually went on a couple of dates and we got to meet his ex-boyfriend. Other than that, Will is basically a monk.

So, I guess on American television it is now okay to 'be' gay, you just can't act like you are. Kind of a 'don't ask don't tell' policy for commerical broadcasting.

But I say, thank god for the Brits. Maybe some of their connection to reality will come our way. But I have to say, if Jerry Falwell saw 'Queer as Folk', he would have a coronary.

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Date: Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 15:13:34 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: American TV
Message:
...is that those 2 minute film clips between the ads?

Anth the wireless head

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Date: Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 15:21:14 (GMT)
From: Way
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Commercials!
Message:
We call the TV ads 'commercials'. You are so right that there seems to be more ad time that show time on American network TV. Is it better in Britain? In France? I detest commercials, I always mute them out.
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Date: Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 18:26:27 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: Commercials and the Olympics
Message:
I read that NBC's advertisers are complaining about the low ratings the network has been getting on the Olympics. They paid through the nose for ads, and now the ratings are down. Anyhow, NBC responded by running MORE commercials. Hey, that's a solution, right? How convenient that NBC can just run the events 15 hours later and insert commercials so easily.

By the way, have you heard that the basketball team from Lithuania just scared the shit out of the American 'dream team?'

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Date: Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 18:39:50 (GMT)
From: Way
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Basketball!
Message:
I love how this thread is meandering around and has more tangents than a Guru Maharaj Ji satsang!

My dad was a very macho basketball coach, at the highschool that I attended. He forced me to be the 'team manager,' the little guy who hands out water and towels to the players. I of course would rather have been with the drama or music kids after school.

I hate basketball.

p.s. my dad and I made up about twenty years later.

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Date: Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 10:03:43 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Channel 4 (OT)
Message:
Hi Joe,

Channel four also co-produced a series of Armitage Maupin's 'Tales of the City', which was excellent. Did you see it?

They occasionaly show some great programmes.

It was Channel 4 that gave us 'Spitting Image'. One of my favorite sketches was Thatcher being gang-banged by all her Ministers while conducting a cabinet meeting.

Anth the rubber puppet voyeur

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Date: Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 16:33:11 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Tales of the City
Message:
Yeah, Tales of the City, by Armistead Maupin was great. Actually, in the first segment, a big part of the show was filmed right in front of my house...it's true. Also, Armistead lives just a couple of blocks from me. I sometimes see him at a local coffee shop.

But this is another sad tale of American hypocrisy. The original segment was a co-production of PBS (lead by KQED in San Francisco) and Channel 4. So, all the PBS stations in the US were supposed to carry the program. [For I think the first time in history, when the program was shown in San Francisco, KQED had higher ratings that all of the 4 commercial networks combined. Of course, the Tales of the City stories were originally serialized in the San Francisco Chronicle and Armistead is a big celebrity here. They were so popular that the Chronicle saw a 40% increase in circulation when the series ran, which was over a series of years in the 80s.]

But, sad to say, some PBS affiliates refused to run the show and there were all kinds of protests around the country on that. Also, PBS was forced to run this embarrassing 'warning' at the beginning of the program, something about the story taking place at a certain time and place and this kind of 'don't try this at home' nonsense. Now that I think of it, the show was kind of a landmark in American television.

So, when the second segment came up, PBS showed its lack of backbone to political pressure and backed out. Instead, I think it was a co-produced by the Showtime cable channel and Channel 4. So, it was shown on Showtime instead of PBS in the USA. Armistead was very vocal in his criticism of PBS about all this.

PBS has become much more conservative over the years, as has the NPR radio network, mostly because they depend on Congress for a lot of their funding and we are suffering under many Reagan and Bush appointees to the Corporation for Public Broadcasting.

I have a British co-worker who told me how popular Tales of the City was in the UK, which, again, surprised me because the show is 'so San Francisco.'

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Date: Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 20:49:32 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Tales of the City
Message:
Hi Joe,

Not only the TV series, the books were, and are, popular too. I really enjoyed them, although I read them in the wrong order.

From my hetero-perspective, Northern Europe is more liberal on gay issues than the States, but Southern Europe looks less liberal. UK is more liberal than France, but less than Holland, Germany and Denmark. I think Holland is the most liberal in everything.

I had a conversation with a Dutch friend once, and said something was perverted, I added, 'perverted by British standards that is'. He said, 'Yes, to be perverted by Dutch standards it would have to include at least two of your children and one of your pets.'

Maybe it's time to go.

Anth who may be moving to Holland soon. (You'd get a passport then wouldn't you eDrek?)

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Date: Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 17:43:25 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: PBS and NPR
Message:
Doesn't that stand for:

Petroleum Broadcasting Company and

National Petroleum Radio?

The Rockefellers control those organizations. 'Nuff said.

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Date: Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 03:08:59 (GMT)
From: ham
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Wicked Series Joe
Message:
It created some media argument but was really popular with the young straight crowd as well.

All of my mates, all straight, were all well into it (bad pun).

Personally I love what's happening culturally over here at the moment, and a lot of it is down to house music culture. Twelve years over here, at a seriosly mass level, gay, black, white, hippies, punks, trannies, rastas, travellers.....barriers dropping all over the shop, lots of tribal overlaps. First time in my life I've met such a huge number of people with a shared attitude, and that attitude is community level agreed. Great music, design......And tv is finally getting really loose, even the broadsheet newspapers are using street talk!
It's a working class cultural revolution.
Thatchers mutant kids, brilliant the way they've subverted her victorian values, all the dealersd I've talked to over the years see themselves as part of the mainstream entrepeneurial system!

And best of all is that free festivasls are happening again. Went to a wicked community based one in Luton recently run by a sound system housing collective called exodus, and it was legal, but even local police forces are allowing illegal events if they are kept small and certain basic h & s rules are adhered too. Even some of the bigger illegal ones are starting to happen again.

ohh and shagging is used bigtime by under thirty fives

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Date: Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 04:47:49 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: ham
Subject: I'm Still Amazed..
Message:
Really? You have straight, male friends who will admit that they are into Queer as Folk? In think you must have very open-minded friends, or maybe British society is just more open.

Maybe it's because American culture fancies itself as more macho or something, but I think straight American men would have a hard time admitting that they were into a show like that because it might give the impression to others, especially other men, that they are gay. And they would like that label about as much as being labeled a child molester. Great to hear though.

One thing I have found is that most straight men are immensely curious about what gay men do when they have sex. They have all kinds of questions and really weird misconceptions about it, but would never know how to ask about it and would be afraid to do so. The straight friends I have talked to openly about this are really quite interested and appreciative when I tell them.

So, when I saw the first episode of Queer as Folk and heard the way they openly discussed and demonstrated gay sex, my thought was that most straight men wouldn't have the slightest idea of what they were talking about, would feel guilty about being even interested and wouldn't watch it.

As we watched the first episode on tape, Kevin and I just kept turning to each other saying: THIS was on TELEVISION????? This was the episode in which one of the characters explained to a straight guy what a cock ring was and what you use it for, and there was a discussion, and nearly a demonstration, of rimming. Amazing, I mean I was AMAZED.

There is also a huge and very vibrant music scene in San Francisco, which is very mixed gay/straight, but that's San Francisco, which is the most open place I've ever been, in which being gay or lesbian is about as much of an issue as the kind of laundry detergent you use. But I don't think most of the country is like that, in fact I know it's not.

So, I say, let's hear it for Channel 4!

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Date: Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 19:03:31 (GMT)
From: ham
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: No seriously, big changes happening here,
Message:
house music was the glue that pulled together the lessons of punk and the seventies alternative, both of which conceptually had deep philosophical messages about lifving and the attitude that was required to achieve that level of personal satisfaction. Then house came along, and it's been WAY bigger than the sixties here in the speed of it's social effects. Remember also we had the tories for 18 months, when they went certain repressed emotions poured out.

What is amazing me is that even the middle classes are taking the message on board. We still have angrys from Orpington, but they are now in a distict shrinking cul-de-sac.

We even have the middle classes protesting now, even if some of their causes would leave both of us pretty angry. But that's democracy for ya, well the limited version we have of it.

Remember Joe, 50% of people between fifteen and 35 have been e'ing it up for ten years plus, they now smoke more hash/weed and chill out bigtime as they get older. When out they do less pills too, but the attitude is still spot on. Don't get me wrong, plenty of arseholes but people know how to deal with them now.
And all those years people have been dancing with straights, gays, lesbians, trannies, travellers, ravers, blah de blah, no shortage of tribes.

But your'e right, it is wicked, I'm starting to get used to it now, and it's building, not just a flash in the pan. We've still got plenty of fascista as well though,.........we still get the occasional racial and gay murders, so however good it gets you know someone is still gonna suffer because of some fucking label.

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Date: Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 22:42:17 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Correction, that's 'two men kissing'....
Message:
Sorry, left out that word. Two men KISSING, has not been shown on American network television. That's what I meant to say.
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Date: Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 00:18:55 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: fitzroy@liverpool.ac.uk
To: Joe
Subject: Queer as folk...
Message:
Yeah, 'Queer as..' was landmark television. If Ellen's coming out is the closest that national TV in the States has got to that then I guess you've a way to go.

I didn't get to see more than one or two episodes, and the series was heavily panned for (ostensibly) artistic or aesthetic reasons. But TV critics have zero brains and 90 percent of television is a waste of life anyway, and the series is no better or worse than any other TV drama I have noticed of late. But it's social value is enormous, I reckon..

In all matters remotely sexual, it seems, British TV has loosened all the straightjackets while America has tightened them (I blame the Immoral Majority...)

They used to say that whatever the US does today, the UK will be doing in five years. I'm wondering whether it ought to be the other way round..?

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Date: Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 00:52:32 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: Queer as folk...
Message:
I guess you might get an argument on the social value of the program from all sides. I think most gays would think it's helpful, while others might consider it reinforcement of stereotypes. It IS amazing though, and it will be years before anything like it gets on American television.

But there has been quite a bit of loosening in regard to heterosexual sex on American television, there is a lot more of it, that's for sure, but gay sex is still mostly hidden.

There isn't anything that would legally prevent such a program on American TV, except I guess they couldn't use the word 'fuck'. But the networks are afraid of losing the almighty dollar and fear someone will organize a boycot of the advertisers. So, they timidly go forward, wanting to cash in on that big gay market with lots of disposable income, but not wanting to create too much of a stir. I think lesbian sex is less threatening to people, so that's why some of that has appeared, but gay male sex is just way too scary.

There are also conservative gay groups as well, if you can believe it who might oppose it. Here we have something called the gay Log Cabin Republicans, whom I call either the 'Log Cabin Syrup Republicans', or, the more appropriate, 'Uncle Tom's Cabin Club.' They are supporters of a wildly homophobic political party and seem to support them no matter what they do.

For example, in the current election, Dick Cheney, the Republican VP candidate, has an out lesbian daughter, whom neither he nor his wife will admit is gay.

But the Log Cabin Repuablicans have announced that the anti-ERA, anti-choice, pro-Mandela-in-prison Cheney, is a moderate because he has a lesbian daughter, even though he won't even say she is gay in public. They grant him points, I guess, for not disowning her or having her committed to ex-gay rehab. Go figure.

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Date: Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 03:22:07 (GMT)
From: bill
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Joe folk...box sent to JIM
Message:
HI Joe,
I sent JIM at least one thing I was going to send you.
The tape of the roast where he talks about another version of that elan vital rewrite of history where he sees the sex scene in the early 70's and also in that tape he talks about his not liking to fly with a woman pilot.
After Jim copies it he will send it to you if you mention it to him.

You are next for a box. He will like his.
More stuff will follow that.

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Date: Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 05:32:24 (GMT)
From: bill
Email: None
To: bill
Subject: Joe folk...box sent to JIM
Message:
it is during the joan apter roast that he talks about how she was there.
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Date: Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 05:17:53 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: Joger02@aol.comd
To: bill
Subject: Thanks, Bill -- HEY JIM....
Message:
Don't forget to send the tape on to me. Email me if you need my address. Thanks in advance.
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Date: Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 01:40:11 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Shit! You still can't say 'fuck' on TV..?
Message:
Like I said - at least five years behind... We even say 'cunt' and stuff, nowadays..;)

God, the Log Cabin club sound weird, but understandable in a way. There have always been secretly gay Tories over here, as well as a whole House of Lords coterie with public school memories of what they used to do in the showers, but when it comes to allowing the hoi polloi to do likewise (whether age of consent, gay marriage etc) will always vote against. I liked the 'Uncle Tom's Cabin' ref. Sums it up nicely.

Michael Portillo (Conservative shadow chancellor of the exchequor) recently didn't quite admit what we've all known for years, ie that he's gay. Instead, he admitted that in his teens he'd had a brief homosexual relationship. (The tabloids were about to 'out' him, so he did it first). He might have been the next Prime Minister, but he won't be any more - thank God - but for the wrong reasons.

But he speaks out still against gays in the armed forces etc and relaxed immigration laws. His (socialist, immigrant) father fought against Franco in the Spanish Civil war. Have to say that - as loathesome Tory slimeballs go - Michael Portillo is one weird cookie. (But not as queer as William Hague, in the older sense of the word.)

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Date: Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 06:32:37 (GMT)
From: Loaf
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: If Hague came out of the closet-I'd go back in(NT)
Message:
arse
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Date: Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 04:25:23 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: Fuck, you still can't say 'shit' on TV.
Message:
Really, it's true. In fact, I think you could say 'cunt', but you can't say fuck or shit on American television, nor on the radio either. I think there are 7 words you aren't supposed to say. It is so ridiculous. In fact, they get said all the time on both radio and television, but the FCC still has the rule.

Actually, I think the American public is way ahead of television in what is acceptable. As I said, I think the networks are more concerned that it might cost them revenue than anything else.

Except in places like San Francisco and Boston, out gays and lesbians usually don't get elected to local or federal offices, but quite a few have come out since being elected and then get re-elected. That tends to be the way it works.

Actually, Clinton has been very good at appointing lots of gay and lesbian government officials and judges. I imagine Al Gore would do the same. It's quite safe to do that these days.

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Date: Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 04:38:26 (GMT)
From: Monmot
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: What About HBO?
Message:
Forget the networks and movie studios. If some focus group, which consists of a panel of 15 year olds, doesn't give a show/move an okay, it's history.

But HBO is pretty out there. Steve Allen, who's twirling like a Sufi nowadays about tv content, is trying to get Sex and the City taken off the air. I'd love to see HBO doing a gay version of that, you know, 4 guys in San Francisco or some scenario like that.

Have you ever seen OZ, the prison show on HBO? It's wicked intense, but sex between guys abounds big time, and it's not 'discreet.' It's such a shocking and intense show, it never gets nominated for any awards, but it has quite a loyal following.

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Date: Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 04:56:24 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Monmot
Subject: I don't have cable.
Message:
Maybe I should get it. I just don't watch enough television to justify it, and so much of it is so rotten, anyway.

I have heard about Oz, but not sure I'd characterize prison sex as 'gay sex', really. Now that I think of it, though, maybe cable has more leeway. It might be just on network television where those stupid rules about the words you can say applies.

What was amazing about Queer as Folk, was that it appeared on regular broadcast television.

Yeah, I have heard that Sex in the City has some people exercised. I haven't seen it, though.

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Date: Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 17:59:40 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Prison 'sex'
Message:
I have heard about Oz, but not sure I'd characterize prison sex as 'gay sex', really

Nor would I. This is just more television distortion and propaganda.

For the real deal on prison 'sex' check out this website: warning, not for the faint hearted

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Date: Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 18:10:54 (GMT)
From: Monmot
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Prison 'sex'
Message:
I agree also that prison sex is not a gay thing. The only time prison rape becomes an issue is when someone like Robert Downey Jr., or some celebrity, is in prison (and not a Club Fed) and the issue of rape comes up.

The people who should be harangued for allowing prison rape to happen are the guards who, in many cases, set up prisoners to be raped.

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Date: Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 05:08:57 (GMT)
From: Monmot
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: I don't have cable.
Message:
I'm not a big fan of TV myself, but about the only shows I watch, aside from West Wing, are on cable, and then on HBO. I was thinking when I mentioned OZ that even though it's sex between captive male prisoners, it's not really gay sex, as it seems to be portrayed on Queer as.... That show seems to be more about real life from what you're saying. Brit TV's always been ahead of the States when it comes to more controversial matters, or in portraying real people experiencing real drama or real comedy.

Believe me, though, they say absolutely everything and anything on cable (particularly HBO)when it comes to profanity, and anything else for that matter. Because of the mountains around here, reception stinks unless you have cable, and also because it's my husband's business, and he must keep informed, at least that's his excuse. :-))

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Date: Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 14:25:57 (GMT)
From: Paul
Email: None
To: Loaf
Subject: yes, he depises premies
Message:
I thought your comment about how obvious it was that he despises the premies is very insightful. How could he not. He knows that he is nothing more than a manipulative snake oil salesman. How could he respect a bunch of mindless, fawning, 'devotees' who don't have the sense to see through him. People who would fight for the right to scrub his toilet with a toothbrush (and grateful to brush their teeth with it afterwards). Does any con man repect the 'mark' he is stealing from? It's all so pathetic.

Paul

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Date: Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 12:26:04 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Loaf
Subject: The Crumbling Cult.
Message:
A great post Loaf.

Did you talk to any premies after the programme?

It's interesting that the hall wasn't full. I think it holds 1500. This means that, although the perfect hamster has not been to Europe for two years, only around 3000 people bother to show up to listen to his waffle, and get a personal knowledge review by DVD. (I don't suppose you can remember anything he said about the fourth technique can you Loaf?)

The cult is really going down the tubes. I think they're on the run. Premies are waking up after years of blind, deaf and dumb devotion, and slowly starting to think again. This is bound to have a bad effect on the cult finances, so premies should expect fund-raising follow-up tours in their area any day now. (Get them before their brains start working again.)

It would be interesting to go and listen to the Rev Sung Yung Moon and do a comparison. I could probably get in to one of those programmes.

Do you know how you join the Moonies?

Take care
anth the, 'Have you heard about the Divine Unification Principle brother? You see, there's this place within that the Rev...'

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Date: Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 17:33:09 (GMT)
From: Loaf
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: No 4
Message:
No mention of snot

But i was reading about nasophilia the other day : and I quote

'magnus hirschfield related the case of a young writer, who made wax noses and put them over his own, admired himself in the mirror, and with a 'slight manual manipulation' he brought about an ejaculation.'

' another man became fixated on the size of the female nostrils thinking that if large enough they could be penetrated. He drew and kept sketches of his large nosed feminine ideal. One day, whilst on the bus, he spotted a young woman who had large nostrils. Infatuated, he followed her home and proposed marriage on the spot. She refused, and when he continued to come to her home, she had him arrested.'

and finally...

'people sometimes use nasolingus (licking or sucking nose) as a substitute penis during intercourse, occaisionally asking their partner to blow their nose in simulation of an ejaculation.'

From the Encyclopedia of unusual sexual practices Ed. Brenda Love

maybe for some, God does taste of snot.

Loaf the fearless investigator into phenomenonandon

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Date: Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 18:07:26 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Loaf
Subject: No 4
Message:
Loaf, you're a fountain of nasal wisdom,

Anth the snotty.

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Date: Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 08:06:01 (GMT)
From: suchabanana
Email: None
To: Loaf
Subject: Harrogate -- Wow! Good report
Message:
Looks like the movie's almost over, unless m. reinvents himself again -- or moves back to India (or to Mauritius).

I had a premonition last year that something like this symbolically would happen: that m. and a few pams retreat into a bunker/residence, leaving the premies outside to fend for themselves.

Time for the Krishnamurti scene?

Peace to you, mate,
and don't let the meat loaf (joke)

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Date: Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 17:39:32 (GMT)
From: Loaf
Email: None
To: suchabanana
Subject: Harrogate -- Wow! Good report
Message:
Thanks suchabanana.

You have such a silly name.

Cheers

Loaf

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Date: Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 04:49:35 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: drek@oz.net
To: Everyone
Subject: I can't decide whether
Message:
This Castle on the Hill in Malibu, CA is less garish than Maharaji's Castle on a Hill in Malibu, CA.

Either way, I'm sure that Maharaji wishes his was this big. Or who knows maybe M's is bigger.

P.S. We need a photo of Maharaji's dilapidated house.

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Date: Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 23:30:49 (GMT)
From: la-ex
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: I can't decide whether
Message:
roger-i have heard that m's house in malibu is 28,000 sq. ft., which would make it almost 3 times larger than the castle.
I think that figure includes the 2 story garage, but i'm not sure if it includes the guest quarters or the underground studio...
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Date: Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 14:42:49 (GMT)
From: Yves
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: Has everyone seen the blueprint?
Message:
Toward the bottom of the page

http://ex-premie.org/pages/malibu.htm

How do you make links here roger?

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Date: Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 11:13:56 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Yves
Subject: Has everyone seen the blueprint?
Message:
See the forum help page. It tells why. Personally it does not work with me. I do not know why.
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Date: Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 14:44:08 (GMT)
From: bill
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: new blueprint coming to JIM
Message:
It is the blueprint of the ductwork of the house.
It adds some features of the upper floor to the our view.
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Date: Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 12:30:30 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: Tasteful
Message:
Hi Rog'

That's tasteful compared to the eyesore on the hill inhabited by the perfect hamster. It reminded me of a cheap motel, designed by a final year architect student on a macrobiotic diet in the week and doing lots of speed at the weekends.

We need a photo.

Anth the arbiter of taste

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Date: Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 19:15:56 (GMT)
From: bill
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: photo of malibu
Message:
Maybe one of those 25$ intro flights offered at the local airport could be used to fly a camera with a good lens over the house. If anyone is local to it.
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Date: Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 07:20:35 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: Here's a picture of the G4, the real one
Message:
an ex just sent me .....

I don't know on which airport the picture has been taken yet, but watch it !!!!!

Prempal Rawat's Gulfstream IV

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Date: Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 04:07:48 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: drek@oz.net
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Excellent work, J-M (one suggestion)
Message:
Great work on the yacht and all!

My suggestion is to make sure that you have saved the content of any of the pages that you've linked to in the case that one day these pages are not available. If you have saved these pages you can present them. However, I'm not sure about the copyright issues, though.

You need to save everything - all the JPEGs, GIFs, and HTML.

Not all of it is needed, though. Just the juicy stuff like the pictures of the boat or planes or glider. Just in case. A picture is worth 1000 words.

Does this make sense?

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Date: Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 03:07:34 (GMT)
From: bill
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Here's a picture of the G4, the real one
Message:
WOW JM,
Super impressive detective work!
premo marine, I guess that means prem's Ocean.
He had other yachts in miami. Not such ocean going monsters like this one however.
What a thief he is in every way.
I have sent some things to Jim and certain ones will end up with you.
More is coming.
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Date: Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 20:46:56 (GMT)
From: Yves
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: It says it is owned by known PAMs
Message:
Who would these be? How certain is he those won't take it from him if they ever cross the floor. 25 millions is a big chunk to lend anyone.
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Date: Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 07:04:05 (GMT)
From: suchabanana
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: Get your red-hot Lord of the Universe buttons now!
Message:
Tony Robbins' place! Yeah, Tony Robbins the Success Guru.

Buy your Personal Power videos today -- get the whole aspirant package of videocassettes for only 6 installment payments of $49.95 and learn the amazing secrets that Tony has shared with the Dallas Cowboys, Kathy Lee, Tammi and Jim, Donny and Marie, Donald Trump, et al -- that will change your life, too. Look at the luxurious Malibu castle and the fabulous lifestyles of Tony and a few of his celebrity friends (like former NFL quarterback Fran Tarkenton here, who isn't getting a dime for this videotaped appearance or endorsement, is he?). See, this can be yours,too, bubbies. You can have it all! Call now-- and if you call within the next 10 minutes, we'll also send you these instructive audio tapes that you can play in your car...

Help Tony get richer and richer (maybe even expand his Malibu castle and get a new jet, too) -- buy these tapes, you will buy these tapes, come to his seminars, you will buy these tapes, watch this infomercial -- you are getting sleepy now, when I count three your mind will be under my power, you will believe, you will believe, and you will donate all your wealth to...

Does this sound all-too-familiar?

PS Yeah, some color photos would be nice. Anyone out there got a nice zoom/telephoto lens on their camera? You can probably get a good zoom shot from the top of Trancas Canyon road right across from the mailboxes by the security gate.

Proposal:
Also, on a new cool separate page/section, a computer animation of the physical techniques #1,2,and 4 (or photos and nice graphics) and a brief 1-2 page intelligent instruction manual that clearly explains each of the 4 K. techniques, also what to focus on inside, too. Don't label anyone's name with the K. techniques. After all, those techniques (inner light, inner sound, breath meditation, nectar [or phlegm, for some]) belong to everyone and have been around for thousands of years, and have been described in lots of Vedic, Buddhist, and Sufi texts and scriptures, etc.

How about no negative stuff on the K. page -- just informative, an introductory explanation, history of the techniques from ancient times, maybe some quotes from the ancients, then here it is, here's how to do it, focus on these things, now check it out for yourself, folks. Also, frequently asked questions about K., + helpful hints. Try it out!

The one page where there need be no anger, mockery, etc. The techniques speak for themselves. [Otherwise, please don't do it. A lot of exes still like doing some of the techniques.]

In contrast to the rest of the past cult personality and concept stuff, no need to degrade people's personal inner experience itself. Dig?

Peace

Pre M.S -- HEY, ROG!: speaking of Personal Power videos:
I've got lots of wacky souvenirs stashed away in boxes: Rome, 1977 t-shirts with M. wearing the Krishna crown, 'Lord of the Universe' flashing buttons, Lord of the Universe and Millenium '73 posters, necklaces, Remember the Word buttons, Who is Guru Maharaj ji? book, German book of satsang, dozens of 1970s cassettes, about 100 videos, all the And It Is Divine mags, some Divine Times, Lear jet fundraiser letters, satsang from residence's assigned writers (Sally Reed et al), Millenium photo/slide, backstage passes, songbooks, typed photocopy of Charanand's translation of Hans Yog Prakash, necktie from Durga, giant-size ashram framed photos (darshan, mala, Krishna, as a kid), music tapes, EVI staff documents, baragons, the wedding picture and other old photos, (incidentally, the original pie photo is on the front page of the Detroit Free Press circa August, 1973 w/ news report -- on microfilm in the main Detroit Public Library), etc.

I wonder if some of this stuff might be useful for anything -- to take photos of, or photocopy the docs. Of course, to some premies this might be worth big bucks -- the mother lode of relics! I should open a booth outside the next tour event -- 'Step right up, hur-ry, hur-ry... This pair of expensive black socks was worn...' '...And over here, check out these beautiful rare buttons. 'The Lord of the Universe' -- You won't find these anywhere anymore, folks -- these are definitely collector items.' '...Or, may I interest you in...?'
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The mind boggles! Maybe I should give the DLM-authorized Krishna mala t-shirts to some old premies I know and suggest it would be really cool (for old times' sake) to wear them to an introductory program, or something! Great idea, huh?

Yeah, or hey, everybody, just show up at an aspirant program wearing your old Lord of the Universe necklaces, buttons, mala t-shirts, bumper stickers, and a blissed-out expression! Kinda like alumni weekend, or a class reunion. Then, at the end of each video, everyone yell together: 'Bolie shri...'

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Date: Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 20:57:50 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: drek@oz.net
To: suchabanana
Subject: Don't lose those momentos!
Message:
Mr. or Mrs. Banana:

Whoa! Don't lose that stuff! We need it.

Do you have a scanner? If so start scanning and zip 'em up and email them to me. Let me know, please!

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