Forum V: Archive
Compiled: Fri, Oct 13, 2000 at 13:08:59 (GMT)
From: Oct 04, 2000 To: Oct 11, 2000 Page: 5 Of: 5


Jean-Michel -:- Here's a website to learn tech 3 and 4! -:- Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 16:52:24 (GMT)
__ Salam -:- Here's a website to learn tech 3 and 4! -:- Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 17:31:50 (GMT)
__ Jean-Michel -:- and here's a new page on ex-premie.org -:- Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 17:02:39 (GMT)
__ __ Jim -:- You could have edited it better -:- Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 17:24:18 (GMT)
__ __ __ Jean-Michel -:- as well as the previous letters -:- Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 17:28:29 (GMT)

Bin Liner -:- Just a thought -:- Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 12:34:35 (GMT)
__ Jim -:- Just a thought -:- Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 16:21:41 (GMT)
__ __ Bin Liner -:- Just a thought -:- Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 20:12:23 (GMT)

Steven Quint -:- The New Arti To Guru Maharaj Ji -:- Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 10:44:26 (GMT)
__ gerry -:- Devotional Songs Only, Please -:- Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 14:30:12 (GMT)
__ __ Tonette -:- Awwww, let him have his fun. nt -:- Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 23:47:39 (GMT)

Buzz -:- Court case -:- Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 06:19:55 (GMT)

GMJ -:- It's not easy being me;give me a break guys! -:- Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 04:52:52 (GMT)
__ Elan Vital -:- Covering Your Perfect ly Synchronized Expenses -:- Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 21:34:41 (GMT)
__ __ GMJ -:- Yes,my expenses are perfect,but your figure is not -:- Sat, Oct 07, 2000 at 01:36:06 (GMT)
__ __ Gordon Showcase -:- Covering Your Perfect ly Synchronized Expenses -:- Sat, Oct 07, 2000 at 01:29:26 (GMT)

suchabanana -:- EVI Docs: need a 707, then Lear, Challenger, G-4?! -:- Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 03:42:44 (GMT)
__ cq -:- Just what the doctor ordered -:- Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 18:57:03 (GMT)
__ Buzz -:- EVI Docs: need a 707, then Lear, Challenger, G-4?! -:- Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 16:25:19 (GMT)
__ Jean-Michel -:- Hey Such? -:- Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 07:44:44 (GMT)
__ __ suchabanana -:- Yes, that's why I posted them; and the Legal post -:- Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 17:40:13 (GMT)

suchabanana -:- First you need a 707,then Lear,Challenger,G-4 etc. -:- Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 01:05:44 (GMT)
__ just wonderin -:- First you need a 707,then Lear,Challenger,G-4 etc. -:- Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 05:27:26 (GMT)
__ __ Joe -:- I knew a few. -:- Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 22:46:51 (GMT)
__ __ __ Roger eDrek -:- Bill Wishard became President at some point (nt) -:- Sat, Oct 07, 2000 at 01:57:08 (GMT)
__ __ Janet of Venice -:- i knew sharon stokke-she was a stripper -:- Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 16:45:26 (GMT)
__ __ __ Joe -:- sharon stokke -:- Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 22:26:55 (GMT)
__ __ __ Jim -:- What's your life like now, Janet? -:- Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 16:53:14 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Janet of venice -:- What's your life like now, Janet? -:- Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 18:42:16 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Hm, well have a nice day -:- Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 18:51:09 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ cq -:- or better yet ... -:- Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 19:35:34 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Janet of Venice -:- or better yet ... -:- Sat, Oct 07, 2000 at 11:38:50 (GMT)
__ Jim -:- You guys are all wet on this luxury thing -:- Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 01:30:33 (GMT)
__ __ Sir Dave -:- You guys are all wet on this luxury thing -:- Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 01:49:23 (GMT)
__ Roger eDrek -:- All perfectly understandable if you do the math -:- Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 01:14:44 (GMT)
__ __ Gordon Showcase -:- You peeple make me sick! -:- Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 11:46:52 (GMT)
__ __ __ Salam -:- You're the only premie that is left -:- Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 14:37:34 (GMT)
__ __ __ spell check -:- For the last time, GS - it's losers, not loosers -:- Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 14:09:41 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Spell Check II -:- Also, it's envy, inventor, village, notice, site, -:- Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 22:32:42 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Sir Dave -:- Ha ha ha ha ha ha - boink -:- Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 23:20:45 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Me Thinks -:- He's Doing It On Purpose (nt) -:- Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 14:16:30 (GMT)

Steven Quint -:- Another Song -:- Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 00:37:15 (GMT)

Steven Quint -:- Something In The Air -:- Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 21:56:34 (GMT)
__ ExTex -:- Something In The Air -:- Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 05:25:36 (GMT)
__ __ Steven Quint -:- Something In The Air -:- Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 11:26:29 (GMT)

The Avenger -:- Email Just Posted At maharaji.org -:- Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 21:46:25 (GMT)
__ Coach -:- Smart move -:- Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 22:37:17 (GMT)
__ __ Jim -:- But be careful -:- Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 22:49:50 (GMT)
__ __ __ Hot Metal Death -:- Yeah, I know but... -:- Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 23:08:08 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Slow Death -:- who will guard the blood? -:- Sat, Oct 07, 2000 at 21:38:41 (GMT)

Something -:- to think about (ot) -:- Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 20:54:07 (GMT)

Way -:- This just in! Milosevik... -:- Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 19:16:26 (GMT)
__ Coach -:- Up to DATE!! -:- Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 19:30:16 (GMT)
__ __ G -:- The Slob vanishes -:- Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 04:51:28 (GMT)
__ __ __ G -:- Milosevic concedes defeat -:- Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 22:19:24 (GMT)

G -:- Premo Marine Inc and the luxury megayacht -:- Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 18:03:01 (GMT)

Steven Quint -:- Legal Action -:- Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 17:56:59 (GMT)
__ Salam -:- What about money back guarantee? -:- Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 01:08:54 (GMT)
__ __ Janet of venice -:- remeber what mark twain cautioned... -:- Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 17:07:22 (GMT)

cq -:- Reply to Gerry's post (now in inactive index) -:- Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 17:53:58 (GMT)
__ gerry -:- true enough -:- Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 18:16:14 (GMT)

Jim -:- Did Bill just send me this to avoid the typing? -:- Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 17:43:29 (GMT)
__ Jim -:- OK, here's Donner's Open Letter (page 1) -:- Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 17:55:03 (GMT)
__ __ Jim -:- OK, here's Donner's Open Letter (page 2) -:- Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 18:04:19 (GMT)
__ __ __ Jim -:- OK, here's Donner's Open Letter (page 3) -:- Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 18:14:26 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Jim -:- OK, here's Donner's Open Letter (page 4) -:- Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 18:26:57 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- OK, here's Donner's Open Letter (page 5) -:- Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 18:44:06 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- OK, here's Donner's Open Letter (page 6) -:- Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 18:54:57 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ la-ex -:- OK, where's donners repsonse? -:- Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 02:35:31 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- My guess? -:- Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 02:50:31 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Tonette -:- It's embarrassing that we -:- Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 02:01:11 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Hey, not everyone at once! -:- Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 19:34:27 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Coach -:- Outstandin' Job. -:- Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 20:24:47 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Roger eDrek -:- That Joan Apter bitch lied, lied, lied... -:- Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 02:17:18 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Liz -:- Outstandin' Job. -:- Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 23:21:34 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Thanks, Coach (and one correction) -:- Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 21:49:38 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Roger eDrek -:- Like I said above - Joan lied! -:- Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 02:21:24 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Of course she's a premie. Read this..... (repost) -:- Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 02:28:31 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Roger eDrek -:- And they are making money with that shit? -:- Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 02:45:10 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Amazing, isn't it? -:- Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 02:52:56 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- God! Doesn't that just have her chiding tone? -:- Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 02:39:46 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Monmot -:- I'm just glad ... -:- Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 02:47:33 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- You're not the only one -:- Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 02:55:32 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Monmot -:- But would you ever wear it? -:- Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 03:05:34 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- If I could fit into it, I'd wear it -:- Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 03:11:20 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Monmot -:- Gurunoids--good name for your band... -:- Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 03:18:44 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- It is physically impossible -:- Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 03:25:48 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Monmot -:- Okay, Uncle....we could all probably use a -:- Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 03:33:05 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ RobertB -:- the haves and have nots -:- Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 20:53:46 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Coach -:- No Title -:- Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 21:58:41 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- That is SO funny! -:- Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 21:51:04 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Coach -:- Actually, fuckin' hilarious. -:- Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 22:30:21 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Tim Russert -:- Imagine Bush Trying to SAY it. -:- Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 22:47:32 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Cooch -:- HELP!!!! -:- Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 23:04:40 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Salam -:- Another lila job, huh? -:- Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 00:41:29 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Alright, that's FIVE now (nt) -:- Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 22:45:22 (GMT)

Salam -:- Where was my Kriya expert when I needed him? -:- Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 16:09:22 (GMT)
__ Bin Liner -:- Where was my Kriya expert when I needed him? -:- Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 23:07:48 (GMT)
__ __ Tonette -:- OH My God! LMAO! nt -:- Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 01:57:06 (GMT)

Q -:- welcome to the Steven Quint Forum -:- Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 15:53:02 (GMT)
__ Steven Quint -:- welcome to the Steven Quint Forum -:- Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 16:46:16 (GMT)
__ __ Way -:- Don't bother about Q, Steven, -:- Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 16:51:04 (GMT)
__ Salam -:- welcome to the Steven Quint Forum -:- Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 16:11:15 (GMT)
__ __ Q -:- I glad to see the tone of this forum has changed.. -:- Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 17:05:34 (GMT)
__ __ __ Q -:- I'm glad to see the tone of this forum has changed -:- Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 17:07:56 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Salam -:- Me too. Go away..nt -:- Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 17:16:44 (GMT)

Steven Quint -:- Gu Maharaj -:- Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 15:44:02 (GMT)

Steven Quint -:- The Times They Are A-Changin' -:- Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 15:20:25 (GMT)
__ It rocks!! -:- The Times They Are A-Changin' (yes) NT -:- Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 15:42:10 (GMT)

popeye the sailor man -:- m's yacht -:- Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 14:39:21 (GMT)
__ RobertB -:- He's gonna be in his mind over this - -:- Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 15:11:59 (GMT)

Steven Quint -:- Fortune -:- Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 12:56:24 (GMT)
__ gerry -:- You made it, bud, you're out !!! -:- Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 15:07:00 (GMT)

Steve Quint -:- Hans Yog Prakash -:- Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 11:19:11 (GMT)

Jim -:- Poor Maharaji, if only he'd stayed in India -:- Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 03:43:51 (GMT)
__ Joe -:- Poor Maharaji, if only he'd stayed in India -:- Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 17:40:14 (GMT)
__ General Electric -:- I thought it was for the appliances.(nt) -:- Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 13:23:36 (GMT)
__ __ California Dairy Assoc. -:- Why did Maharaji come to California......? -:- Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 18:02:12 (GMT)
__ Roger eDrek -:- No, Jim, Maharaji has Serentity -:- Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 04:11:00 (GMT)
__ __ Janet of Venice -:- No, Jim, Maharaji has Serentity -:- Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 07:35:21 (GMT)
__ __ __ Roger eDrek -:- Not to be patronizing to my new friend, but... -:- Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 00:56:53 (GMT)
__ __ suchabanana -:- the yacht is the clincher - tell all the premies!! -:- Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 04:53:22 (GMT)
__ __ __ Roger eDrek -:- Exactly! How can he ever ask for money again? -:- Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 05:18:57 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Bin Liner -:- Exactly! How can he ever ask for money again? -:- Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 22:44:48 (GMT)

Jim -:- Donner's letter of September, 74 (thanks Bill!) -:- Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 01:37:25 (GMT)
__ Tim Matheson -:- most of the rank and file premies.. -:- Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 07:16:15 (GMT)
__ Buzz -:- Donner's letter of September, 74 (thanks Bill!) -:- Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 06:01:30 (GMT)
__ CHR -:- Donner's letter of September, 74 (thanks Bill!) -:- Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 04:37:46 (GMT)
__ suchabanana -:- Jagdeo involvement in Holy crisis - puzzle piece!! -:- Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 04:25:23 (GMT)
__ Jim -:- And then this gem (JM, you want to put these up?) -:- Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 01:50:11 (GMT)
__ __ Jean-Michel -:- All this is GREAT stuff IMO, BUT -:- Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 09:30:35 (GMT)

Steve Quint -:- Did you or did you not receive something real? -:- Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 00:38:38 (GMT)
__ CHR -:- Did you or did you not receive something real? -:- Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 04:46:14 (GMT)
__ Gregg -:- Did you or did you not receive something real? -:- Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 02:49:28 (GMT)
__ Sir Dave -:- Did you or did you not receive something real? -:- Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 01:14:50 (GMT)
__ gerry -:- I gotta shotgun for Christmas once... -:- Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 00:53:58 (GMT)
__ Jim -:- No, nothing but a few silly tricks -:- Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 00:50:44 (GMT)

Steve Quint -:- Revealing The Techniques -:- Wed, Oct 04, 2000 at 23:15:50 (GMT)
__ Helen -:- Revealing The Techniques -:- Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 13:58:09 (GMT)
__ CHR -:- Revealing The Techniques -:- Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 05:08:40 (GMT)
__ __ Steve Quint -:- Revealing The Techniques -:- Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 10:58:55 (GMT)
__ __ __ Tonette -:- Beautifully said nt -:- Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 02:47:38 (GMT)
__ __ __ Jim -:- Unfortunately, both are true -:- Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 19:00:42 (GMT)
__ Gregg -:- Revealing The Techniques -:- Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 02:58:45 (GMT)
__ Joe -:- I disagree -:- Wed, Oct 04, 2000 at 23:55:09 (GMT)
__ __ Salam -:- Democracy is an amazing thing -:- Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 00:10:32 (GMT)
__ __ __ Jerry -:- Democracy is an amazing thing -:- Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 03:09:36 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Jim -:- Maharaji's hidden surprise for everyone -:- Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 03:26:15 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Scott T. -:- Maharaji's hidden surprise for everyone -:- Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 04:34:45 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Now it's I who don't follow YOU, Scott, -:- Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 16:46:32 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Scott T. -:- Now it's I who don't follow YOU, Scott, -:- Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 22:09:07 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Helen -:- Maharaji's hidden surprise for everyone -:- Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 13:47:28 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Scott T. -:- Maharaji's hidden surprise for everyone -:- Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 14:00:31 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Helen -:- Dancing (ot) -:- Sat, Oct 07, 2000 at 16:50:04 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Scott T. -:- Dancing (ot) -:- Sun, Oct 08, 2000 at 00:46:03 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Helen -:- Dancing (ot) -:- Sun, Oct 08, 2000 at 03:52:51 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Scott T. -:- Dancing (ot) -:- Sun, Oct 08, 2000 at 05:05:29 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ gerry -:- You're just not trying hard enough, Jer (nt) -:- Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 03:23:23 (GMT)
__ Sir Dave -:- Revealing The Techniques -:- Wed, Oct 04, 2000 at 23:52:00 (GMT)
__ __ Jim -:- Revealing The Techniques -:- Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 00:01:39 (GMT)
__ __ __ Sir Dave -:- Revealing The Techniques -:- Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 00:18:55 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Daneane -:- Revealing The Techniques -:- Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 00:31:40 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Helen -:- Revealing The Techniques -:- Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 13:44:55 (GMT)

suchabanana -:- POST THE TECHNIQUES NOW - POST THE TECHNIQUES!!!!! -:- Wed, Oct 04, 2000 at 20:51:18 (GMT)
__ gerry -:- OK, OK -:- Wed, Oct 04, 2000 at 21:20:41 (GMT)
__ __ Bin Liner -:- Anatomical Correctness -:- Wed, Oct 04, 2000 at 22:52:10 (GMT)
__ Roger eDrek -:- They are Here and Now! And use a search engine -:- Wed, Oct 04, 2000 at 21:11:48 (GMT)
__ __ Salam -:- They are Here and Now! And use a search engine -:- Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 00:03:29 (GMT)
__ __ __ suchabanana -:- so-hung, tech pics, and HACKER ALERT WARNING!!!!!! -:- Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 03:43:45 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ cq -:- so-hung, soaham, so-ham, ... swami ... -:- Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 17:17:20 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Janet of Venice -:- TECHNIQUES pics, and HACKER ALERT WARNING!!!!!! -:- Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 05:07:17 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ JohnT -:- Background reading -:- Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 20:51:40 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Roger eDrek -:- banana, don't get paranoid - I've been there -:- Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 04:50:23 (GMT)

Salam -:- GM residence -:- Wed, Oct 04, 2000 at 15:08:47 (GMT)
__ Roger eDrek -:- all we've got is a satellite photo -:- Wed, Oct 04, 2000 at 21:00:55 (GMT)
__ __ Roger eDrek -:- and a blueprint here at Ex-Premie.org -:- Wed, Oct 04, 2000 at 21:03:19 (GMT)
__ __ __ Salam -:- I think it is time for your moles to get cracking -:- Wed, Oct 04, 2000 at 23:25:37 (GMT)


Date: Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 16:52:24 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Here's a website to learn tech 3 and 4!
Message:
So-Hung

Kechari Mudra

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Date: Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 17:31:50 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Here's a website to learn tech 3 and 4!
Message:
I am not sure if you checked what the site 'Kichari mudra'

calles 'seal of nadis'.

This remind me of either the light or the sound techniques a long
time ago. I suspect it was the sound technique, before it was
changed to the way it is know. Can anyone remember?

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Date: Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 17:02:39 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: and here's a new page on ex-premie.org
Message:
Maharaji's Family Lila - The Holy Crisis, and the schism.

Do you like it?

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Date: Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 17:24:18 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: You could have edited it better
Message:
Just kidding, JM. Another great addition to the archives. Thanks.

Perhaps if anyone knows if there IS a second page, if they too hvae that letter, that'd be helpful. And, of course, there's reference to Maharaji's own October letter, if someone has that too.

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Date: Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 17:28:29 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: as well as the previous letters
Message:
that are mentioned somewhere.

July or June 1974 ....

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Date: Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 12:34:35 (GMT)
From: Bin Liner
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Just a thought
Message:

When I got k I filled in a form, making me an official member of DLM.


Supposing,as some recent postings have suggested, EV goes bust in some way.

Could that mean members being liable for any debts.

Does anyone know anything about this?

Does anyone know how to go about legally revoking membership? (UK)

Thanks

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Date: Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 16:21:41 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Bin Liner
Subject: Just a thought
Message:
If that's all you've got to worry about, Bin, you're one very lucky guy.

Sorry, that idea's a bit far-fetched. Hm, make that 'very'.

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Date: Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 20:12:23 (GMT)
From: Bin Liner
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Just a thought
Message:

You're right, thanks.

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Date: Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 10:44:26 (GMT)
From: Steven Quint
Email: sequint@home.com
To: Everyone
Subject: The New Arti To Guru Maharaj Ji
Message:
It Ain't Me Babe
by Bob Dylan

Go 'way from my window,
Leave at your own chosen speed.
I'm not the one you want, babe,
I'm not the one you need.
You say you're lookin' for someone
Never weak but always strong,
To protect you an' defend you
Whether you are right or wrong,
Someone to open each and every door,
But it ain't me, babe,
No, no, no, it ain't me, babe,
It ain't me you're lookin' for, babe.

Go lightly from the ledge, babe,
Go lightly on the ground.
I'm not the one you want, babe,
I will only let you down.
You say you're lookin' for someone
Who will promise never to part,
Someone to close his eyes for you,
Someone to close his heart,
Someone who will die for you an' more,
But it ain't me, babe,
No, no, no, it ain't me, babe,
It ain't me you're lookin' for, babe.
It Ain't Me, Babe
by Bob Dylan

Go melt back into the night, babe,
Everything inside is made of stone.
There's nothing in here moving
An' anyway I'm not alone.
You say you're looking for someone
Who'll pick you up each time you fall,
To gather flowers constantly
An' to come each time you call,
A lover for your life an' nothing more,
But it ain't me, babe,
No, no, no, it ain't me, babe,
It ain't me you're lookin' for, babe.

Copyright © 1964; renewed 1992 Special Rider Music

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Date: Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 14:30:12 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Steven Quint
Subject: Devotional Songs Only, Please
Message:
Steve,

I share your appreciation for Dylan and dissing goober rogers, but it's is only recognized forum ettiquite to refrain from posting song lyrics.

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Date: Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 23:47:39 (GMT)
From: Tonette
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Awwww, let him have his fun. nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 06:19:55 (GMT)
From: Buzz
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Court case
Message:
HI Jim,
Thanks for all the work your,e doing here.
Just incase you missed my post earlier do you have any details on the court case between m and mataji.
If the newspaper report could be put on this site it would be an interesting read.
Regards
Buzz.
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Date: Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 04:52:52 (GMT)
From: GMJ
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: It's not easy being me;give me a break guys!
Message:
Listen you ungrateful ex-premies (even though none of you is an ex, because by Guru Maharaji's Grace,Guru Maharaji never misses even one devotee...so you're all still premies...)
Anyway,it's not easy being the lord...

First you get a little powerboat....
But then you gotta get a bigger powerboat...
But then you gotta get a yacht in miami,and have john miller take care of it,while premies work in sweat shops called deca..
And then when you get that first yacht, then you gotta get a bigger yacht,while you claim that there's not enough money to do your work of bringing world peace....
And then you gotta outfit that yacht....and have people take care of it all year round,so you can act like a big shot in it and impress the premies with it...
So it's not easy,you know...

Same goes for planes,but that's a diffeerent story...

GMJ

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Date: Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 21:34:41 (GMT)
From: Elan Vital
Email: None
To: GMJ
Subject: Covering Your Perfect ly Synchronized Expenses
Message:
Dear Maharaji:

Enclosed please find an Elan Vital check made out to Prem Pal Singh Rawat, in the amount of $300,000 which we have collected from 'voluntary' donations, to cover the expenses you incurred in participating in the posting event, above. As you know, we are dedicated to supporting your work around the world, but we never provide you any income, only cover your expenses, as we clearly describe on our website. Although we are not worthy to ask you to do anything, please have one of your servants, er, we mean assistants, provide us with an invoice in the amount of $300,000 for the IRS, er, we mean our files.

If the $300,000 amount is insufficient, please let us know immediately and we will provide the additional payment at once, while at the same time, with great synchronicity, we will bang our heads against the walls and stick pins in our faces for our failure in having that understanding and inadequate gratitude for this life. We beg your forgiveness for lacking understanding; how could we be so in our minds? We do have the understanding that we are worthless scum without you, and we have nothing but gratitude for you.

Yours in eternal synchronized gratitude:

Elan Vital

ELAN VITAL: ABSOLUTELY NOT A CULT SINCE 1971

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Date: Sat, Oct 07, 2000 at 01:36:06 (GMT)
From: GMJ
Email: None
To: Elan Vital
Subject: Yes,my expenses are perfect,but your figure is not
Message:
Dear EV-
Yes, I know that everything I do is perfect,and synchronized too.But hear me now,and I don't want to repeat this,if you know what I mean.In other words, this is AGYA!!!
Move the decimal point one place to the right,and just turn that $300,000 into $3,000,000 and I will bestow my almighty and pure grace upon you.You will have instantaneous and full realization of this most holy knowledge,and I will have enough money to buy that new watch I've been lusting after,make a few payments on the boat,buy Monica a few nighties,score a little Hawaiian weed,couple of cases of good cognac...you know what I mean...
If you don't understand this,I will have you demoted and transferred to Mobile Alabama,where you can do prachar with TED Farkel...

Your Lord and Master
GMJ
(make that 6,000,000....this is the second post I have had to make)

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Date: Sat, Oct 07, 2000 at 01:29:26 (GMT)
From: Gordon Showcase
Email: None
To: Elan Vital
Subject: Covering Your Perfect ly Synchronized Expenses
Message:
Like I said above; I'm not sticking around this plaice any more because it stinks.

Knowbody appreciated my wizdom and all I get is abuse. Anyway,it was nice talking to you, Elan Vital. You are an oasiss in this desert of ignorense. If there's any deals I can do for you, please let me no. I'll get one of my men round right away and we're talking strate cash here, no trace and no tax. See you.

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Date: Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 03:42:44 (GMT)
From: suchabanana
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: EVI Docs: need a 707, then Lear, Challenger, G-4?!
Message:
EXHIBIT A:
'North American Sponsorship Program
November 7, 1989

Dear Friends,

As we approach the start of both a new year and a new decade, it is amazing to realize that never before has Maharaji traveled so much and spoken to so many people in so many places over such a short period of time. During the 3 months following the Festival of Knowleged, Maharaji has conducted over 24 separate events in 16 countries on 6 continents. And still to come before year end are 2 major international events: a 3-day program November 7-9 outside of New Delhi, India; and another 3-day Festival of Knowledge, this time in Brussels, Belgium on December 8-10.

Maharaji's increasingly extensive travels have been made possible in large part by the acquisition of a Lear 55 jet. Three years ago, a worldwide effort was initiated to purchase such a plane, and within several months, in March of 1987, the generosity of thousands of individuals from all over the globe had combined to raise enough money to make the downpayment. The balance due on the plane ($2.5 million) was financed with a bank loan, secured in part by Maharaji's Malibu residence. Each month since then, a significant portion of the total amount contributed by sponsors from fifty different countries has gone to reduce that debt.

This coming March, a balloon payment on the Lear loan wil be due, meaning that the balance owed (approximately $1.4 million) will either need to be paid in full or refinanced for several more years. Although it would probably be possible to refinance the loan because of the excellent payment record, many people from around the world who have been supporting the project are hoping that we could retire the debt completely. This would have two major advantages. First, it would eliminate the enormous interest payment (approsimately $150,000 per year - over $500,000 to date) and could thus free up funds for other important projects. Further, it would eliminate the risk that the loan places on Maharaji's U.S. residence. A resolve to repay the loan was therefore made last December at the International Organizers' Conference in New Delhi, attended by Maharaji.

Obviously everyone's help is needed to make this project successful. Enclosed you will find a card provided for initial contributions by December 5, with additional amounts to be pledged for payment by February 21. Many contributors played a significant role in the original acquisition of this aircraft, while many more have since joined in supporting its ongoing operation. It is hoped that still more will join in a global effort finally to gain outright title to the aircraft. Gifts both large and small are welcome and necessary (contributions towared the Lear down payment ranged from $5 to $50,000).

To continue the operations of the aircraft and the ongoing expenses of Maharaji's work...' [more pleas for sponsorships of large amounts of money (e.g. a chart with up to $50,000 individual donor pledges), and so forth]

Sincerely,
David Mankoff Sharon Stokke Jim Candelet Jane McGuire
Sharon Stokke Tony Stamper Ted Riskin Randy Waterhous
------------------------------------------------------------
EXHIBIT B:
[Excerpts from]
North American Sponsorship Program
November 1990

CHALLENGER REPORT - 1991 SPONSORSHIP CAMPAIGN

'October 19, 1990 marked an important milestone in Maharaji's work with the acquisition of the Challenger 601. Maharaji is clearly delighted with the quality and capabilities of the aircraft, as well as with the depth of support from all those around the world who contributed towards it.'

...'The successful acquisition of the Challenger does not signal the completion of a project, but rather a continuing opportunity for all those who wish to support Maharaji's work... by providing monthly support through Sponsorship contributions.'

...'In less than one month, nearly $8 million in contributions and loans were received from around the world. More than 2700 people in the United States and Canada contributed $2.2 million in gifts and $2 million in loans. This more than doubles the amount raised for the acquisition and improvements to the Lear 55 over the past five years.'

'This letter..is also an urgent request to return the enclosed pledge envelope as soon as possible...'

Most Sincerely
Bill Wishard W. Timothy Gallwey David H. Coyne
----------------------------------------------------------------
COMMENTS:
History:
First M. had a small plane, then a 2-engine plane, then millions were spent purchasing (and years of premies' slave labor spent outfitting) a colossal Boeing 707, then buying and naturally improving a luxurious Lear 55, then the even better Challenger, and then the fabulous mega-jet -- the $25,000,000 Gulfstream G-4. What's next -- a space shuttle? Who paid for these cheap, pathetic little planes? Premies [devotees]

Notice in Exhibit A the following:
1. The very interesting guilt trip laid on the devotees: 'a bank loan, secured in part by Maharaji's Malibu residence.' Then again, a reference to 'the risk that the loan places on Maharaji's U.S. residence.'

Hold on a second there, somebody! Didn't the premies purchase the house for $250,000 in 1974, then Maharaji sold it in 1978 for about $5.8 million to Seva Corp.? So, whose mansion is it, anyway -- really? The November, 7, 1989 letter from Elan Vital clearly states 'Maharaji's Malibu residence.'

Internal Revenue Service, State of California Attorney General -- hello?!!!

I suppose those were just 'figures of speech'. Really?!

2. The rote obligatory imploring for millions of dollars more.
Ergo: guilt = he might lose his palace, so send millions for this plane for him to continue his 'ongoing expenses' for his work
Indeed, the 'expenses' do go on, as we well know.

May I draw your attention now to Exhibit B:
1. The Lear 55 that Maharaji specifically requested (ordered) apparently wasn't good enough for his purposes. Soon, M. saw and wanted something even more fabulous as a personal jet for his work -- the Challenger.

Please notice in the first paragraph of the Challenger Report the following: 'Maharaji is clearly delighted with the quality and capabilities of the aircraft.' At last, it seemed, that Maharaji was finally satisfied with an airplane.

Why, then, did Maharaji insist on having at his sole disposal a $25,000,000 personal luxury mega-jet, the Gulfstream G-4, several years later? These aircraft were all designed to last decades. Check with the FAA and see for yourself how long airline and corporate jets are kept in service. They are designed to last a long, long time!

2. Again, the obligatory rote 'urgent request to return the enclosed pledge envelope as soon as possible.'

What on earth, here, was being catered to -- and never satiated? Obviously, Maharaji's gross insatiable material desires! Yes sir, self-proclaimed Lord of the Universe -- whatever you want, you got it -- may I kiss your socks, please, please, please? Let me grovel at your feet. Please may I give you a chunk of my monthly salary, borrow from the bank and go into debt, and also donate the proceeds from my car and my home, my inheritance, etc. -- so that you can have ever-more luxurious and expensive material objects at your sole disposal?

Not good enough for you? Please forgive us, we're sorry. Here, we'll get you the latest personal space station -- then you can travel all over the universe and spread this knowledge. In fact, a rocket ship all the way up to Uranus might be a wonderful idea!

Wait a second. If you're really the Lard, then why not spread these simple techniques, by manifesting 10,000 forms at once and 'just do it', dude? Too easy, huh? I know, there must be devotion, right, and service [oops, participation opportunities].

Any premies left out there, wake up! Wake up! Or, are just f---ing stupid, or what? Duh. The Emancipation Proclamaion of 1863 abolished slavery. SLAVERY IS ABOLISHED! No more, may I lick your boots, MASSA PREM? I am so unworthy MASSA PREM. Please may I lap up your stools, MASSA PREM? Yes, you are right to chastise us for our unworthiness, MASSA PREM. You want to kick us and crap all over the devotees who are supporting you? PLEASE, MASSA PREM. Please to kick us and stomp on our screwed up minds with your lotus feet!!

Whatever you want, whatever you say, MASTER, MASSA. You want another jet? Yes, MASSA, anything you want. A yacht? Of course, MASSA. We are so stupid, we are so unworthy. Another Rolex watch? Definitely, MASSA. Another Ferrari automobile? Certainly, MASSA. We are so very sorry for not having more debts and money to give you, but we will try -- please forgive us, MASSA, OH MASSA PREM. YES, MORE AND MORE DEVOTION, MORE AND MORE GRATITUDE, MORE AND MORE APPRECIATION OF MATERIAL ASSETS EVERY DAY. YES, MASSA MASSA. MASSA, I am afraid you will swallow up the whole universe -- your divine appetites are so big, and we are so stupid and gullible and small, MASSA PREM.

No wonder M. and his boys at the palatial residence have such contempt for the wussy premies now. What a bunch of stupid masochistic wimps! Look around, kids. The techniques are not his monopoly -- they're in books, and other yogis, gurus, and meditation teachers show 'em, too. Where are they? You were born with the Light, Sounds, Breath, and a tongue. Who gave you this Life? Not Maharaji, duh. Wake up, you guys!

If you can get Knowlege from a VCR or a DVD player, then it clearly ain't about the person who shows you. Anyone with a little experience of any of these techniques could teach them to you. The so-called miracle is already in you. YES! Not from some hocus pocus from someone else out there. If there is any truth at all to the experience, it's yours, inside -- not his. Why do you think he even watered down his own presentation over the past 25 years? WAKE UP!

SLAVERY IS DEAD! FREE, FREE, FREE AT LAST! THANK GOD ALMIGHTY, WE'RE FREE AT LAST!!!!! SLAVERY IS ABOLISHED! SPREAD THE WORD, SISTERS AND BROTHERS!

I fear that no amount of Prozac in the entire world will help some of these premies, unless they wake up now -- as the evidentiary truths of the Rawat materialist deception and cult history of abuses is gradually revealed before the world's eyes in the Light of Truth.

Peace, Truth, and Light,

da lil' swami suchabanana

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Date: Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 18:57:03 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: suchabanana
Subject: Just what the doctor ordered
Message:
Hey, Swamiji! Result!

Your reprint of those letters is the biz.

I've been writing to the UK Charity Commission intermittently over the last year to try and get them to investigate EV's shadier side. My last missive quoted the letter that J-M has scanned and publishes for all to see here about the Jets Acquisition Committee. sample quote:

'Anyone who would still like to participate may do so by enclosing in the pledge envelope a check made out to Elan Vital and marked ' plane '.'

The UK Charity Commision took one look at it and said they couldn't do anything, it was for Elan Vital in the USA to deal with.

But! NOW! Your reprint of the quote 'North America Sponsorship Program''s begging letter (does it mention EV or DLM in the letterhead?) gives me something to come back with.

Jean-Michel is suggesting you could help in getting a scan of the letter on the ex-premie.org website. Could you? It would make a lot of difference as regards credibility.

And finally - got any more archives?

Keep it up and best wishes,

Chris

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Date: Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 16:25:19 (GMT)
From: Buzz
Email: None
To: suchabanana
Subject: EVI Docs: need a 707, then Lear, Challenger, G-4?!
Message:
Nice one such!!
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Date: Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 07:44:44 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: jmkahn@club-internet.fr
To: suchabanana
Subject: Hey Such?
Message:
Would you mail me copies of these letters ? or the originals ? or scan them and email them to me ?

This stuff has to be on this website, with a small introduction, don't you think?

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Date: Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 17:40:13 (GMT)
From: suchabanana
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Yes, that's why I posted them; and the Legal post
Message:
will rsvp soon; very busy today.

da lil' swami s.

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Date: Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 01:05:44 (GMT)
From: suchabanana
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: First you need a 707,then Lear,Challenger,G-4 etc.
Message:
EXHIBIT A:

'North American Sponsorship Program

November 7, 1989

Dear Friends,

As we approach the start of both a new year and a new decade, it is amazing to realize that never before has Maharaji traveled so much and spoken to so many people in so many places over such a short period of time. During the 3 months following the Festival of Knowleged, Maharaji has conducted over 24 separate events in 16 countries on 6 continents. And still to come before year end are 2 major international events: a 3-day program November 7-9 outside of New Delhi, India; and another 3-day Festival of Knowledge, this time in Brussels, Belgium on December 8-10.

Maharaji's increasingly extensive travels have been made possible in large part by the acquisition of a Lear 55 jet. Three years ago, a worldwide effort was initiated to purchase such a plane, and within several months, in March of 1987, the generosity of thousands of individuals from all over the globe had combined to raise enough money to make the downpayment. The balance due on the plane ($2.5 million) was financed with a bank loan, secured in part by Maharaji's Malibu residence. Each month since then, a significant portion of the total amount contributed by sponsors from fifty different countries has gone to reduce that debt.

This coming March, a balloon payment on the Lear loan wil be due, meaning that the balance owed (approximately $1.4 million) will either need to be paid in full or refinanced for several more years. Although it would probably be possible to refinance the loan because of the excellent payment record, many people from around the world who have been supporting the project are hoping that we could retire the debt completely. This would have two major advantages. First, it would eliminate the enormous interest payment (approsimately $150,000 per year - over $500,000 to date) and could thus free up funds for other important projects. Further, it would eliminate the risk that the loan places on Maharaji's U.S. residence. A resolve to repay the loan was therefore made last December at the International Organizers' Conference in New Delhi, attended by Maharaji.

Obviously everyone's help is needed to make this project successful. Enclosed you will find a card provided for initial contributions by December 5, with additional amounts to be pledged for payment by February 21. Many contributors played a significant role in the original acquisition of this aircraft, while many more have since joined in supporting its ongoing operation. It is hoped that still more will join in a global effort finally to gain outright title to the aircraft. Gifts both large and small are welcome and necessary (contributions towared the Lear down payment ranged from $5 to $50,000).

To continue the operations of the aircraft and the ongoing expenses of Maharaji's work...' [more pleas for sponsorships of large amounts of money (e.g. a chart with up to $50,000 individual donor pledges), and so forth]

Sincerely,

David Mankoff Sharon Stokke Jim Candelet Jane McGuire
Sharon Stokke Tony Stamper Ted Riskin Randy Waterhous

------------------------------------------------------------

EXHIBIT B:

[Excerpts from]

North American Sponsorship Program

November 1990

CHALLENGER REPORT - 1991 SPONSORSHIP CAMPAIGN

'October 19, 1990 marked an important milestone in Maharaji's work with the acquisition of the Challenger 601. Maharaji is clearly delighted with the quality and capabilities of the aircraft, as well as with the depth of support from all those around the world who contributed towards it.'

...'The successful acquisition of the Challenger does not signal the completion of a project, but rather a continuing opportunity for all those who wish to support Maharaji's work... by providing monthly support through Sponsorship contributions.'

...'In less than one month, nearly $8 million in contributions and loans were received from around the world. More than 2700 people in the United States and Canada contributed $2.2 million in gifts and $2 million in loans. This more than doubles the amount raised for the acquisition and improvements to the Lear 55 over the past five years.'

'This letter..is also an urgent request to return the enclosed pledge envelope as soon as possible...'

Most Sincerely

Bill Wishard W. Timothy Gallwey David H. Coyne

----------------------------------------------------------------

COMMENTS:

History:
First M. had a small plane, then a 2-engine plane, then millions were spent purchasing (and years of premies' slave labor spent outfitting) a colossal Boeing 707, then buying and naturally improving a luxurious Lear 55, then the even better Challenger, and then the fabulous mega-jet -- the $25,000,000 Gulfstream G-4. What's next -- a space shuttle? Who paid for these cheap, pathetic little planes? Premies [devotees]

Notice in Exhibit A the following:

1. The very interesting guilt trip laid on the devotees: 'a bank loan, secured in part by Maharaji's Malibu residence.' Then again, a reference to 'the risk that the loan places on Maharaji's U.S. residence.'

Hold on a second there, somebody! Didn't the premies purchase the house for $250,000 in 1974, then Maharaji sold it in 1978 for about $5.8 million to Seva Corp.? So, whose mansion is it, anyway -- really? The November, 7, 1989 letter from Elan Vital clearly states 'Maharaji's Malibu residence.'

Internal Revenue Service, State of California Attorney General -- hello?!!!

I suppose those were just 'figures of speech'. Really?!

2. The rote obligatory imploring for millions of dollars more.

Ergo: guilt = he might lose his palace, so send millions for this plane for him to continue his 'ongoing expenses' for his work

Indeed, the 'expenses' do go on, as we well know.

May I draw your attention now to Exhibit B:

1. The Lear 55 that Maharaji specifically requested (ordered) apparently wasn't good enough for his purposes. Soon, M. saw and wanted something even more fabulous as a personal jet for his work -- the Challenger.

Please notice in the first paragraph of the Challenger Report the following: 'Maharaji is clearly delighted with the quality and capabilities of the aircraft.' At last, it seemed, that Maharaji was finally satisfied with an airplane.

Why, then, did Maharaji insist on having at his sole disposal a $25,000,000 personal luxury mega-jet, the Gulfstream G-4, several years later? These aircraft were all designed to last decades. Check with the FAA and see for yourself how long airline and corporate jets are kept in service. They are designed to last a long, long time!

2. Again, the obligatory rote 'urgent request to return the enclosed pledge envelope as soon as possible.'

What on earth, here, was being catered to -- and never satiated? Obviously, Maharaji's insatiable material desires! Yes sir, self-proclaimed Lord of the Universe -- whatever you want, you got it -- may I kiss your socks, please, please, please? Let me grovel at your feet. Please may I give you a chunk of my monthly salary, borrow from the bank and go into debt, and also donate the proceeds from my car and my home, my inheritance, etc. -- so that you can have ever-more luxurious and expensive material objects at your sole disposal?

Not good enough for you? Please forgive us, we're sorry. Here, we'll get you the latest personal space station -- then you can travel all over the universe and spread this knowledge. In fact, a rocket ship all the way up to Uranus might be a wonderful idea!

Wait a second. If you're really the Lard, then why not spread these simple techniques, by manifesting 10,000 forms at once and 'just do it', dude? Too easy, huh? I know, there must be devotion, right, and service [oops, participation opportunities]. May we lick the bottom of your shoes? Please, please, please. Kick us? Ok. Ok. Ouch! thank you Ouch, that hurts -- oops, thank you. We are so unworthy, MASTER. Yes MASSA'. Yes, MASSA. Browbeat us? Sure, go ahead. Yes, we are so unworthy. Thank you, MASSA, MASSA, MASSA PREM...

Whatever happened to the Emancipation Proclamation of 1863, folks? Hey premies, wake up! Wake Up, premies! You're FREE. Yes, really you are. SLAVERY IS HEREBY ABOLISHED. FREE, FREE, FREE AT LAST. THANK GOD ALMIGHTY I'M FREE AT LAST!!!!

You're free, yes, and the 4 techniques are free -- they're just about what's in you already. Nobody's got a monopoly on how to look within yourself. So, what's the whole big idolatry trip about?! Or, are you just f---ing stupid, or what? Duh.

Wake up, premies, please wake up. Don't be played by M. for fools anymore! Please, for God's sake (and the sake of your families), wake up now! Otherwise, all the Prozac in the world won't help you cope -- as all the bogusness of Maharaji's materialist scams is revealed.

Peace, Truth, and Light to all, dear sisters and brothers

da swami suchabanana


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Date: Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 05:27:26 (GMT)
From: just wonderin
Email: None
To: suchabanana
Subject: First you need a 707,then Lear,Challenger,G-4 etc.
Message:
does anyone know the people in the letter?
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Date: Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 22:46:51 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: just wonderin
Subject: I knew a few.
Message:
I recall David Mankoff, Sharon Stoke and Jim Candelet at DLM/Elan Vital IHQ people. Sharon, I think was mostly out in the communitities. Jim Candelet, I think, was a finance/computer person in Divine Light Mission/Elan Vital.

I recall the name Bill Wishard, but I can't place it. Tim Gallwey was that tennis player who wrote the 'Inner Game of Tennis,' that he actually hocked at festivals, and then turned that into a new age 'inner game' business, and hired other people to ghost write things like 'The Inner Game of Golf,' and 'The Inner Game of Cleaning the Septic Tank' and stuff like that.

David Coyne was a premie (I recall he had red hair) who inherited a shitload of money at a very young age. From Arizona, I think. I remember one of the first things he did when he got his money, he bought Maharaji a Rolls Royce.

Like other people with lots of money, Maharaji had him around him a lot. I think David, to this day, 'works' for Maharaji.

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Date: Sat, Oct 07, 2000 at 01:57:08 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: drek@oz.net
To: Joe
Subject: Bill Wishard became President at some point (nt)
Message:
adsf
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Date: Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 16:45:26 (GMT)
From: Janet of Venice
Email: None
To: just wonderin
Subject: i knew sharon stokke-she was a stripper
Message:
sharon stayed in our premie house in Spring Valley in 1973/4 as a traveling rep from denver HQ. i was astonished to hear her casually talk about her working as a stripper for $400 a night in tips in sleazy, dark, lowlife joints back on the wrong side of denver. this in the days when 'sisters' were ordered to wear ankle skirts and long sleeves and stay celibate. she was not pretty. she was small and skinny and plain, with shortish, dishwater colored,
nondescript hair, and exhibited a personality of what i would call a country toughness, with no conscience or compunction. i was very much bothered and offended by the hypocrisy of this. there was nothing sexy about her in the least. nor anything devotional. she had her eye on the main chance.
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Date: Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 22:26:55 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Janet of Venice
Subject: sharon stokke
Message:
I had no idea Sharon Stokke was ever a stripper. I remember her as a DLM-ambitious, always-sit-close-to-the-lotus-feet, organization type. Sophia Collier kind of trashes her in her book, called Soul Rush. Among the ashram brothers she had a reputation of, well, not taking her celibacy vows too, too seriously, if you know what I mean. I know what you mean about the 'toughness' although I think she grew up in working-class St. Paul, Minnesota.

After the ashram, she went to law school and I think she practiced as a lawyer in the Bay Area. But then I heard she went to work for Elan Vital full time, and that's maybe when she wrote those fundraising letters. Later I heard she was fired from Elan Vital, but I can't say for sure.

Anyhow, I understand Sharon now looks the spittin image of Roseanne Barr these days, so she's no longer skinny, although not any more marketable as a stripper.

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Date: Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 16:53:14 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Janet of Venice
Subject: What's your life like now, Janet?
Message:
Janet,

You're fun to read and thanks, by the way, for throwing in the odd paragraph. (Will caps be next?).

So what's your life like now anyway? I take it you live in Venice? I used to live in Santa Monica back in the eighties. Washington Ave. (not Blvd.), between Wilshire and Montana and one block off Lincoln. I moved to Maui for a few months in '80 and then came back home to Canada. I've been in Victoria, B.C. ever since.

I'm a criminal lawyer and play in a band with my girlfriend, Laurie, called the X-Flies. That's about it. Oh yeah, I spend a lot -- probably far too much -- time dissing my former guru on the internet. That's me. What else? Oh yeah, I'm not spiritual anymore. Gave it up for evolution.

And you?

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Date: Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 18:42:16 (GMT)
From: Janet of venice
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: What's your life like now, Janet?
Message:
glad you like to read my stuff. i rather like my writing, myself!!!
whats my life like...?..hmmmm. shall i be brutally truthful or politely evasive? choices, choices.
truthfully, i'm miserable at where I'm at. to tell the story of why i'm right here, right now, would take a book, and i might write it yet. If i did, I would title it 'Cancel My Subscription To The Resurrection'. and the plaigiarism of Jim Morrison's lyric is keenly intentional. he lived here in venice before fame, for anyone who didnt know. let us suffice it to say i've been crushingly disillusioned by, not just this one, but two,three, four, five, six, seven massive and equally false promises in my life. my disgust isnt just with mirage-ee.
in the x-files, they had a season titled 'everything dies'. my version would be 'everything lies'. btw-i was an avid watcher of that show, until lately. now it seems a parody of itself. I find I'm more attracted to brutally realistic dramas, like Law and Order, ER, NYPD Blue, where doing good is crammed up against bureaucracy, criminal evasion, skinflinted greed and all the other enemies of the human spirit.

a typical day, for me, is to sleep in, as late as i need to. (I dont have to work for my money-i get disability for my 22 years of clinical depression) -and wake in a lot of body pain, from doing too much in the yard and garden, and trying to improve this old house, not wanting to accept the fact that i'm not young and strong any longer.I hit menopause 2 years ago, and i can feel my bones getting lighter and more fragile. hot flashes have me swimming in sweat, on and off, all day and night. but I have my son back, and he's a joy. he fixes meals for me when i'm too tired to feed myself, serving them wearing a blinding rainbow tie- dyed apron, and putting on great acents and silly characters for both our amusement. he'll do anything i ask of him, and i feel terribley guilty, that i ask so much.
today is his 22nd birthday and i'm letting him sleep in-all day if he wants to-its rainy and grey here and he gets the same checks i do, so no reason to fret. its amazing, watching him grow up. i marvel at listening to the shaping of his mind, even now. I've gotten to watch him evolve, from a spoiled adolescent when he rejoined me in 97,into a thinking,loving young man in 3 years. and i fought like a lion to make it happen, bunky. my family is amazed that i have been able to do so. they all tried and failed. but their praise comes too little, and too late. i can't forget the years of agony without him. my father is slowly dying of heart disease, now, and its so strange, to see him growing old and weak and frail. yet i still spar with him, albeit with humor, but I'm now giving him unstinting payback, for all the hell he put me through, and he knows it- with laughter.
i hate los angeles. always have. i desperately want to be elsewhere, where people and life are simpler and more kind and real and down to earth. you'd think, living in a bohemian,beachcomber enclave like venice, I'd be happy. but the drugs dealers are out on the sidewalk all night, the gunshots echo off the houses, the news is lurid, and the house is cramped. the fear pervades the neighborhood. my favorite cat hates it so much he's refused to come back home all summer. he's taken to sleeping in the center of a gated, locked field that humans cant enter, across the way, and only coming home for food on the porch. he loves me--he cant stand anything else.
i have cats. many cats.at present its down to 7, but there were up to 16 a while ago. same thing happened at my last place in hollywood. i hate to give kittens away. i tend to let them grow up with their moms and stay in their dynasties of birth. three generations is about the usual. we have three times the land you expect with a house lot, so they have lots of room outside. the owner is happy with it.i treat them like they are individual people, not like dumb, inferior forms of life. and they respond likewise. people tell me my cats arent like other people's.
I got on the net a year ago, june. a terrible experience in college in 1970 made me think i could never handle computers, so for 30 yrs, i had a phobia about ever approaching them again. not until webtv did i see a way to try it. i promptly got pulled in and spent eight hours a night on the net for a year, and now its a nightly routine. do my mail, surf some, come here and end in my chat room till dawn. i chat in talkcity in the room called Astronet. they know me as 'Jai_Choix'. pronounced zhayy shwaa. its a multiple layer pun. my social security checks abbreviate my name to j schwa in the government computers. the phrase means 'I have choice' or ' the choice is mine' in french. and we all know what 'jai' means in hindi, thankx to u-no-hoo. i snicker every time my chatroom buddies call me 'jai'. i've never brought up maharaji in there. we talk about the LIght, god, love, healing, past lives, karma, astrology, runes, tarot, psychic abilities, illnesses, relationships, and we get nuts for the fun of it. my wit has increased exponentially, as a result of handling the flux in there, night after night. my reputation as a counsleor has spread far and wide. people come in, specifically looking for me, to ask me for help with their lives, and i listen intently and share with them the realest things i have come to understand, from my long experience , in effort to help them see how they got where they are, and what they can do with it.

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Date: Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 18:51:09 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Janet of venice
Subject: Hm, well have a nice day
Message:
No, seriously, thanks for that.

And sorry about the tie-dye.

You're right about everyone lying. But, I've got to tell you, you SHOULD write a book if only cause the title's so good. You write -- get someone else to edit, please! -- and I'll read.

Deal?

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Date: Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 19:35:34 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: planetqwerty@postmaster.co.uk
To: janet
Subject: or better yet ...
Message:
pardon me infringing on you two's conversation, but - well, this is a public forum, ain't it?
(and if half the fun isn't knowing that what we write can be read by ... phew, ... a couple more people?)

Yup, a book would be fine for me too, but, you know, somehow the book in me isn't going to get written unless I do it in installments. And what better way than to use a forum like this (and also your 'talkcity/Astronet') as a starting point? (incidentally, could you post the web address for them, and do they archive like here?)

Enjoyed the read Janet, you write well. The occasional blank line between paras would make it easier on the old optics, but that's for you to decide.
.
.
.

Hmmm. I've just re-read this and it doesn't sound genuine. What the hell. Some days I just don't sound that way, no matter how well-intentioned.


Here's a site you might enjoy,one that might even make your title 'Cancel My Subscription To The Resurrection' be just plain sense (the site's not anti-anything, BTW, other than stupidity).

Here you go:

http://members.tripod.com/~pc93/lstmgdth.htm

Ciao bella.

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Date: Sat, Oct 07, 2000 at 11:38:50 (GMT)
From: Janet of Venice
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: or better yet ...
Message:
talkcity is a chat server. home page ishttp://www.talkcity.com.from front page you look for the link to the chatrooms. on a pc, you have several choices to enter by. you can be a guest and pick from EZ guest lite, and make up a name to appear by in the rooms--.or you can decide to register as a returning member and register your chat nicname and log on whatever personal info you choose to. due to a skirmish over irc's recently, they created their own approved program for users on pc to download and install when wanting to come into tc and chat. talkcity PIRCH. i hear its nowhere near as fun as mirc or others, but the furor died down and i think they relaxed the ban on irc's.i get to astronet by way of four popups on my irc:€chat.talkcity.com€port 7003€#astronet€no room ops code nor password necessary..its realtime chat, not a newsgroup or forum or bulletin board, so you have to be prepared to spend realtime in the room in order to converse.you can log while you're in there, but it's not like here . when youre not there, you miss whats discussed..the most worthwile members are known by the names'drywyddwyzdm(druid wisdom)'.'enlightndspirit'.'llphantasie'.'pen_dragon'.and if you hang awhile, you'll decide who else is worth knowing. anybody is welcome. like here, we have our pet flame subjects too. we get characters coming in presuming to convert us to Jesus, presuming to tell us we're all damned to Hell, coming in proclaiming to be Satan or be satan worshippers, people coming in demanding that we prove we are psychic or telling us we arent...and depending on who's in that night, the person may get flamed, may get a genuine discussion, may become raw material for hilarious parody, may get utterly ignored, or a crossfire of all those at once. i must say, hanging out there has wonderfully removed the stick i used to have up my ass. i think it was my barogan leg.
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Date: Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 01:30:33 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: suchabanana
Subject: You guys are all wet on this luxury thing
Message:
I don't know what you think you're trying to prove. Really, have you even read EV's FAQ? They deal with the issue masterfully, decisively. I don't know how you can get around their explanation which is full, robust and straight-to-the-point:

Does Maharaji have an affluent lifestyle?

Maharaji is sometimes criticized for his openly successful lifestyle. Elan Vital does not recognize the validity of criticizing his or anyone else’s lifestyle. It could be argued that such criticism is based on an assumption that it is not OK for a religious or spiritual leader to be wealthy. But Maharaji is neither a spiritual nor a religious leader. He is a master who teaches about life and is adamant that any person’s lifestyle has no relevance to her or his ability to be fulfilled. He has often stated that whether you are the richest person or the poorest person, the possibility to be at peace within yourself and to be fulfilled is available. He has said: 'Some people make the assumption that success or wealth makes inner peace unobtainable. True peace has nothing to do with external substance. The heart of the richest man and the poorest man can be equally fulfilled. When we separate from the place of the heart we suffer even if we have everything, and knowing that place we can be happy even if we have nothing.'

Elan Vital does not compensate Maharaji financially or in any other way for any services he provides, including the right to disseminate his teachings in various media formats. Maharaji has granted Elan Vital a royalty free license to use, publish and distribute his teachings in all media and to use his name and likeness in connection with his teachings. Elan Vital, and the affiliated organizations, pay for documented expenses when Maharaji presents his message at conferences around the world. He does not own the private plane which he usually pilots himself to the many remote destinations to which he travels worldwide. This is leased from a private company and Maharaji does not charge a fee for piloting the plane. Because he is asked to speak at so many engagements worldwide, it would be impossible to schedule his itinerary in a timely or cost efficient manner on scheduled airlines. In his private life, as a means of maintaining his independence, he has business interests which have been very successful. He sometimes receives, but does not solicit, gifts of appreciation from people who have benefited from his teachings. As a private individual Maharaji makes no apology for the fact that he is fortunate to have a very good quality of life. We have observed he works very hard, contributes great value, and deserves, as the rest of us, what he has earned. We think any person’s lifestyle is and should be a matter of personal choice and ability.

See? You should all be ashamed of yourselves.

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Date: Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 01:49:23 (GMT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: You guys are all wet on this luxury thing
Message:
'Because he is asked to speak at so many engagements worldwide, it would be impossible to schedule his itinerary in a timely or cost efficient manner on scheduled airlines'

That's logical. I mean, all politicians who are regularly flying around the globe cannot get by on normal airlines. And businessmen, my brother-in-law among them, couldn't possibly rely on British Airways, Delta Airlines etc now could they. My brother-in-law is in America one week, Japan the next and then all over Europe again before finally coming back to Devon.

I've never seen his private plane but he must have one or how else could he be able get around so much?

Another thing I haven't grasped because of my ignorance, is the fact that Maharaji flies all over the world every week of the year giving talks to people in many countries while appearing to remain in his house in Malibu.

Now only a true master can do that.

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Date: Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 01:14:44 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: drek@oz.net
To: suchabanana
Subject: All perfectly understandable if you do the math
Message:
One Person Going Nuts and Getting All of His Material Desires Fullfilled

EQUALS

About 30,000 Westerners Forgoing All of Their Material Desires and Needs

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Date: Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 11:46:52 (GMT)
From: Gordon Showcase
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: You peeple make me sick!
Message:
You people are grreen with envie. Just because you haven't got anything you don't want Maharaji to have anything. Maharaji doesn't need your money. He's a succesful businesman and inventer and he's left you loosers far behind and you are no more than the little dogs who come out and bark at the big elephant walking through the villege.

Do you think he'll take any notise of this stupid little web sight? He's got far more important things to do than read this garbedge. In this case, the cat can't look at the king.

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Date: Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 14:37:34 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Gordon Showcase
Subject: You're the only premie that is left
Message:
Take some sea sickness tablets.
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Date: Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 14:09:41 (GMT)
From: spell check
Email: None
To: Gordon Showcase
Subject: For the last time, GS - it's losers, not loosers
Message:
nt
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Date: Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 22:32:42 (GMT)
From: Spell Check II
Email: None
To: spell check
Subject: Also, it's envy, inventor, village, notice, site,
Message:
Instead of envie, inventer,villege, notise, and web sight. Also, it's garbage, not garbedge.
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Date: Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 23:20:45 (GMT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: Spell Check II
Subject: Ha ha ha ha ha ha - boink
Message:
Don't worry, I'm just laughing my head off.
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Date: Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 14:16:30 (GMT)
From: Me Thinks
Email: None
To: spell check
Subject: He's Doing It On Purpose (nt)
Message:
nnn
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Date: Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 00:37:15 (GMT)
From: Steven Quint
Email: sequint@home.com
To: Everyone
Subject: Another Song
Message:
By The Southern Death Cult
Predecessors Of The Group The Cult
From The Album The Southern Death Cult
On The Beggars Banquet Label
Lyrics From http://www.deathrock.com/southerndeathcult/lyrics.html
copyright

FATMAN -

THE FATMAN CANNOT SEE
WHAT'S GOING ON
FOR HE'S NOT ME
THE FATMAN TAKES AWAY
WHAT ISN'T HIS
HE WEAKENS YOU AND ME
LUST OF YOUR LIFE
MONEY ............. LIFE
YOUR MONEY IS HIS LIFE
THE FATMAN AN UNHAPPY MAN
AND ALL HIS FRIENDS
ARE FATMEN TOO
............. TOMMY CAN YOU HEAR ME?

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Date: Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 21:56:34 (GMT)
From: Steven Quint
Email: sequint@home.com
To: Everyone
Subject: Something In The Air
Message:
Something In The Air
by Thunderclap Newman
Copyright

Call out the instigator
Because there’s something in the air
We’ve got to get together sooner or later
Because the revolution’s here

And you know it’s right
And you know that it’s right
We've just got to get it together
We've just got to get it together now

Lock up the streets and houses
Because there’s something in the air
We’ve got to get together sooner or later
Because the revolution’s here

And you know it’s right
And you know that it’s right
We've just got to get it together
We've just got to get it together now

And you know it’s right
And you know that it’s right
We've just got to get it together
We've just got to get it together now

Hand out the arms and ammo
We’re going to blast our way through here
We’ve got to get together sooner or later
Because the revolution’s here

And you know it’s right
And you know that it’s right
We've just got to get it together
We've just got to get it together now

And you know that it’s right...

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Date: Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 05:25:36 (GMT)
From: ExTex
Email: None
To: Steven Quint
Subject: Something In The Air
Message:
ALWAYS LOVED THAT SONG! (Pete Townshend on bass.)
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Date: Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 11:26:29 (GMT)
From: Steven Quint
Email: sequint@home.com
To: ExTex
Subject: Something In The Air
Message:
It's also on Tom Petty & The Heartbreakers Greatest Hits CD.

Steve

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Date: Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 21:46:25 (GMT)
From: The Avenger
Email: the_avenger55@hotmail.com
To: Everyone
Subject: Email Just Posted At maharaji.org
Message:
Why is this site still here?

You're finished Prem, and you very well know it.

Pack it in. Take a long cruise on your yacht and never touch land.

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Date: Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 22:37:17 (GMT)
From: Coach
Email: None
To: The Avenger
Subject: Smart move
Message:
I reckon that should do it.

Great handle, BTW - Mr Avenger

Coach

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Date: Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 22:49:50 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Coach
Subject: But be careful
Message:
I'm just a little concerned that the name 'Avenger' coupled with fervent predictions -- not promises -- of doom and gloom could possibly be misconstrued as threatening. There's definitely a line and we should be careful to not cross it.
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Date: Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 23:08:08 (GMT)
From: Hot Metal Death
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Yeah, I know but...
Message:
he really might be called The Avenger

HMD

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Date: Sat, Oct 07, 2000 at 21:38:41 (GMT)
From: Slow Death
Email: None
To: Hot Metal Death
Subject: who will guard the blood?
Message:
When you step into the light and the man has your freedom
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Date: Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 20:54:07 (GMT)
From: Something
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: to think about (ot)
Message:
http://www.send4fun.com/100people.htm
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Date: Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 19:16:26 (GMT)
From: Way
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: This just in! Milosevik...
Message:
is toppled by his people. One more dictator bites the dust. (2.30pm, Eastern Daylight Time)
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Date: Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 19:30:16 (GMT)
From: Coach
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: Up to DATE!!
Message:
Cool, Way. BBC Online News ain't got it yet. Up to the minute or what?

Coach

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Date: Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 04:51:28 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: Coach
Subject: The Slob vanishes
Message:
Extra extra! Read all about it at USA Today
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Date: Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 22:19:24 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: all
Subject: Milosevic concedes defeat
Message:
See USA Today
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Date: Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 18:03:01 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Premo Marine Inc and the luxury megayacht
Message:
Here's some more info on Rawat's company 'Premo Marine Inc', which owns, maintains, and operates Rawat's 106 foot megayacht 'Serenity'. This is from the 2000 and 1999 annual reports, which are downloadable as TIFF image files from the RI sec. of state's web page on Premo Marine. This page is linked to from JM's page on Premo Marine.

---------------------------------------------------------
State of Rhode Island and Providence Plantations
Office of the Secretary of State

Profit corporation annual report for the year 2000
Filing Period: January 1 - March 1 * Filing fee: $50.00

1. Corporate ID No. 84635
2. Name of Corporation: Premo Marine Inc.
3. Street Address Principal Business Office:
2800 BankBoston Plaza
4. Business Phone No.: 409-849-7800
5. State of Incorporation: Rhode Island
6. SIC Code: 6882 [means 'other personal services']

7. Brief description of the charactoer of business conducted in Rhode Island: Maintaining and operating, for the personal use and beneficial owners, one ocean going vessel.

8. Names and addresses of the officers:
President: Kathleen M. Giebe
516 North Pennsfield Place, Suite 108
Thousand Oaks, CA 91360
Vice President: John K. Bale (same address)

9. Names and addresses of the directors:
Robert A. Jacobs
c/o Millbank, Tweed, 1 Chase Manhattan Plaza
New York, NY 10005

10. Shares authorized: 1,000 $.01 par value
11. Shares issued: 100 Common $.01

Signed by John K. Bale, Vice President/Treasurer, on 3/31/00
------------------------------------------------------------

The 1999 annual report is similar, except it lists
2700 Hospital Trust Tower, Providence, RI 02903
as the street address of the principal business office.
It was signed by Bale on 6/10/99.

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Date: Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 17:56:59 (GMT)
From: Steven Quint
Email: sequint@home.com
To: Everyone
Subject: Legal Action
Message:
I just spoke to the Vancouver, Canada lawyer who I referred to in the Oct 03 message entitled Justice II. I called about a different matter but also wanted to ask him why he said 'You can't sue your guru'.

His answere was, 'I'll do it, but it will cost Cdn $185(US $125) per hour.

I'm currently working on raising funding to do this. I'm not afraid to talk about this publically. I believe that the truth will win out and that fear has no place in a righteous cause.

It will probably take some time to raise the funding, and patience is not my strongest characteristic, but I'm willing to do whatever it takes to extinguish the flames of deceipt.

Love and Thanks

Steve

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Date: Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 01:08:54 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Steven Quint
Subject: What about money back guarantee?
Message:
I will ask him what is his plan before committing my dosh. He sounds very casual about.
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Date: Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 17:07:22 (GMT)
From: Janet of venice
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: remeber what mark twain cautioned...
Message:
he pointed out that one lawyer in a town cant make a living. but two, can.
we need to find someone impassioned who takes this on as a personal crusade, not as just another business appointment.
btw--
do not look to the Cult awareness network.Scientology succeeded in acquiring them, lock stock and barrel, in a court maneuver that shocked them. CAN is now a de facto agent of propaganda in helping members STAY IN the cult of their choice and getting their families to agree with it.
don't go with the first lawyer you meet. they'll take your money regardless. they get paid whether they win or lose. to them its just business.
lets find the right ppl to do this.
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Date: Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 17:53:58 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Reply to Gerry's post (now in inactive index)
Message:
Date: Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 01:42:48
From: gerry
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: If you ask me, it DOES matter...

Message:

'I don't know if you're still a quote 'premie' or not (and it shouldn't really matter,
should it?'

Now do you mean it shouldn't matter if YOU personally don't know or, if it shouldn't
matter if he IS a premie, and what exactly do you mean by 'matter?' Not that that matters if
you know what I mean.

.
.
.
.
.
cq replies:

Well, should it matter?

How do I feel about the fact that the anonymous person I was posting to COULD be a premie? My preference would be to treat them with as much respect and occasionally disrespect (if called for) as I do exes. I'd prefer not to discriminate on the basis of their faith in someone I consider to be a con-artist. For sure, I'd like to try and encourage them to see the trip from a different perspective, but to assume their not worthy of respect just because they still idolise the Maha would be betraying my own past experience in the cult.

Premies aren't the opposition here, at least not for me. What I'm opposed to is the closed-minded, circular-thinking substitute for original thought that so often passes for wisdom in the premie world.

I've been through that 'brainwashing' and so have you, Gerry. I don't know what experiences you had when you were getting out of the cult, but for me, it was simply a matter of opening my eyes to what really was going on in the ashram and in local premie circles. I began to distance myself from the whole scene. If someone had come to me at that time and dissed the whole premie/guru/meditation trip, that wouldn't have helped, you know. Quite the opposite. If I'd come up against a strong anti-Maharaji faction at that time, it could even have put paid to my exiting (as in quitting) process, and drawn me back into the fold to defend what I still partially believed in. But that didn't happen. It was my own dissatisfaction that got me out.

There's many different angles to see this whole cult business from, and what works for one person may not for the next. I don't think there are any hard and fast rules about how to get yourself free and clear of a dependence on any authority figure.

At the end of the day, what works, works. For me, when I read current premies' posts, all I can say is ... there but for the grace of *** go I.

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Date: Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 18:16:14 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: true enough
Message:
I do remember some pre Millenium 'exes' some in State College who were vocally anti-M and a few premies in Harrisburg who quit right after I got scammed. It was an early warning sign, drip one, you might say.
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Date: Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 17:43:29 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Did Bill just send me this to avoid the typing?
Message:
Here's another good one. It starts with another memo from Donner:

27 November 1974

TO: All DUO Directors

FROM: Mike Donner

Dear Brothers and Sister, [note the singular]

Jai Satchitanand. In the mailing this week, I am sending you an open letter, written by myself to all the premies, explaining as well as possible, the situation in Maharaj Ji's family and the events surrounding it. This letter will also be published in Divine Times, but I wanted it sent to you, the DUO Directors, to use as you see fit before it comes out in print.

As you know, Maharaj Ji wants all the premies to know the facts now, and it is our duty to help maintain the clarity which is necessary.

Love to all of you ....

Your brother,

[Mike]

Mike Donner

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Date: Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 17:55:03 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: OK, here's Donner's Open Letter (page 1)
Message:
An Open Letter to all premies from the National Director of DLM

Dear Brothers and sisters,

Many of you have heard bits and pieces of the story of 'Maharaj Ji's family Lila.' It's been hard to tell the whole story until now, because Maharaj Ji Himself has been trying to give everyone involved enough time to digest the changes that have taken place and join Him oce again in unity and cooperation. Maharaj Ji loves us all -- and because of that love He always gives us enough rope to either tie ourselves to His Lotus Feet or hang ourselves.

Historical account

In early spring, Raja Ji married Claudia. The marriage, held with Maharaj Ji's complete consent and knowledge, was a private ceremony. Mata Ji knew of Raja Ji's love for Claudia long before this marriage and was against their relationship from the start. A month or so following their wedding day, Raja Ji and Claudia, after consulting Guru Maharaj Ji, decided to go to the residence in L.A. and announce their marriage to Mata Ji and Bal Bhagwan Ji and to ask their belssings as is the custom in India. They went and were greeted not with blessing but rather with anger and raised hands and were driven from their home. This upset Maharaj Ji because He had blessed the marriage and Mata Ji knew that Maharaj Ji approved. Mata Ji and Bal Bhagwan Ji's anger was so great in fact that Maharaj Ji called Bob Mishler and myself to L.A. to ask Mata Ji, Bal Bhagwan Ji and Bhole Ji to leave the country, to return to India.

In fact, they all left for India via Hawaii in time to attend the Baisaki festival in Bihar, India -- where they pretended that nothing had happened. You all probably remember our joy when Maharaj Ji allowed us to announce that Raja Ji had married Claudia. When this news reached India, Mata Ji and Bal Bhagwan Ji denied the truth of the matter. This announcement, while bringing us so much

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Date: Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 18:04:19 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: OK, here's Donner's Open Letter (page 2)
Message:
joy, seemed to make matters even worse between Maharaj Ji and Mata Ji and Bal Bhagwan Ji, as they were still unprepared to accept the marriage and in fact were pressuring Guru Maharaj Ji to command Raja Ji to get an annulment. It's hard to understand why such a simple and beautiful marriage -- although not traditional -- should have caused such a commontion, except in the context of Guru Maharaj Ji's own marriage.

Bal Bhagwan Ji, at least, saw the handwriting on the wall and strongly suspected that Durga Ji would soon be our Lord's wife. At one point he even flew secretly to Denver from Australia to try to persuade Guru Maharaj Ji to return to India, behave more traditionally, and denounce Raja Ji. Guru Maharaj Ji asked Bob and I to meet Bal Bhagwan Ji at the Denver airport and have him return to India. We spent hours with Bal Bhagwan Ji that night trying to explain to him that as far as were were concerned Guru Maharaj Ji was Guru Maharaj Ji and could do what He wanted and didn't want to be pressured into behaving according to someone else's norms and customs, etc.

He left for India (not very convinced), after Guru Maharaj Ji suggested that if he returned to India Guru Maharaj Ji would consider going to India on May 20th. Ironically, May 20th was that very blessed day for all Guru Maharaj Ji's children. On that day, rather than returing to India, Durga Ji became Guru Maharaj Ji's blessed wife. In a sense, that was the straw that broke the camel's back. Maharaj Ji said there was no turning back at that point and everyone, including His family, just had to follow Him to Heaven.

By now, most premies were beginning to learn to let go of their concepts and ideas about how it was going to be. For some, more caught in tradition, it was difficult to make such rapid changes. It was a time of great stress for

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Date: Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 18:14:26 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: OK, here's Donner's Open Letter (page 3)
Message:
many older devotees. Because it was so hard, Guru Maharaj Ji was extremely patient. The things that Bal Bhagwan Ji said about Guru Maharaj Ji during that period are still too harsh to repeat. But Maharaj Ji listened and hoped that time would heal the wounds.

Recent Developments

Now time has passed, and the gap is still present. I cannot say why people act as they do. Who can say why such a time can be a tremendous experience of love for some and such a time of pain for others. Maharaj Ji spoke about this paradox recently when He wanted us to tell all the premies how Mata Ji had come to His residence late at night. She, Bhole Ji and Professor Tandon (of the Indian Mission) tried to get Maharaj Ji out of bed on the night of 11/23/74 demanding to see Him. Maharaj Ji was asleep. Mata Ji called the police with stories of how Guru Maharaj Ji was being held against His will, was a minor, and so on. The police came, spoke with Maharaj Ji only to find Him well and embarrassed that His family had caused such a scene. The police were very apologetic and asked Mata Ji, Bhole Ji and Tandon to leave and phone back in the daylight hours for an appointment.

But Maharaj Ji said that night that there was a leson for all the premies. The lesson is that we must all personally experience the Knowledge. No matter who we are, how close we are to Guru Maharaj Ji physically, or due to our service or age, we must experience the Knowledge for ourselves. He said, 'If premies will practise Knowledge, they would not do such crazy things.'

Guru Maharaj Ji held off circulating His letter that you see on this page in hopes that Bal Bhagwan Ji, Mata Ji and Bhole Ji would tire of the folly that Guru Maharaj Ji is to young to lead us; in hopes that they would tire of the delusion that Guru Maharaj Ji is caught in 'Western' maya and cannot be trusted; tire of

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Date: Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 18:26:57 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: OK, here's Donner's Open Letter (page 4)
Message:
the joke that the Perfect Master is being controlled by the DLM administration. As we all know, Guru Maharaj Ji is in complete control of all levels of life.

But they have persisted in spreading this confusion until Guru Maharaj Ji has no choice but to speak the embarrassing truth about His own family.

Bal Bhagwan Ji is (at this printing) still in England trying to gain control of the Mission there. Just before Han Jayanti in Toronto, Susan Butcher at Bal Bhagwan Ji's prodding and with Mata Ji's consent phoned an incredible story full of lies into the Toronto newspapers. This tactic of going to the press to exploit the disloyalty with Maharaj Ji's family prompted us to release a statement about the situation to the U.S. press. This action also prompted Maharaj Ji to finally circulate His letter throughout the world. (see both reprints on this page).

Commentary

So why do I take the time to write this lengthy letter to all of you? Because Guru Maharaj Ji has asked us to keep everyone informed so that no one can confuse any of our family any longer. There are some common questions that arise from this lila.

'Why does Guru Maharaj Ji allow such things to happen if He is the Lord?' I can really only speak for myself, but everything Maharaj Ji does is for me. I can't begin to express the endless lessons I've learned in the short time of this play. Guru Maharaj Ji is takin gus beyond our mind and concepts to a place where we can have the pure experience of love. Just love; love unfiltered by any idea of what it is. We cannot experience love with our minds so Guru Maharaj Ji takes us beyond our minds. These situations are the tools He uses to explode our concepts to take us further down the path of devotion and surrender.

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Date: Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 18:44:06 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: OK, here's Donner's Open Letter (page 5)
Message:
And further, He makes it clear that such things happen to help us see that we have to personally experience this Knowledge. No one else can realize it for us. As He said in His Paramount satsang in Denver, 'It doesn't matter who received Knowledge before you or after you. You have to experience it for yourself.' It doesn't matter what Mata Ji's role or relationship is to Guru Maharaj Ji -- ultimately it doesn't affect what I must do to get close to Guru Maharaj Ji myself.

So, many more lessons have come from this situation. I can only serve one Lord, not five. Guru Maharaj Ji is one, not five. Agya comes from one point, not five, etc. etc. ....

Some ask: 'If Guru Maharaj Ji can't have peace within His family, how can He bring peace to the world?' Guru Maharaj Ji has made it clear that all His devotees are His Holy Family. His family is a spiritual family that crosses all boundaries od creed and tradition. Guru Maharaj Ji is in fact bringing peace to the world through the peace brought to the lives of millions of devotees -- US! Knowledge is the key and we must practice Knowledge to be experiencing the pace that He has promised. Peace comes when we surrender totally to the Lord -- no matter who we are, surrender is the path to peace. A few persons being too proud to surrender to the relationship of Lord and devotee doesn't negate the experience that the rest of us are having of Guru Maharaj Ji's love.

'Aren't Bal Bhagwan Ji and Mata Ji just realized souls playing their part in His game perfectly?' Not necessarily. Guru Maharaj Ji is making it clear that if they were experiencing this Knowledge, they wouldn't be hindering His movement and purpose. In fact, many premies still do not understand this and that is why Guru Maharaj Ji has published his letter of October 26, 1974. He knows

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Date: Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 18:54:57 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: OK, here's Donner's Open Letter (page 6)
Message:
that such ideas make premies easy prey for confusion that Mata Ji, Bal Bhagwan Ji and others bring with them. Guru Maharaj Ji is our only Lord and by seving Him only, He will take care of all the rest.

'Shouldn't we try to bring unity in the Family?' We shouldn't try to do anything but realize the Knowledge, practice meditation and serve Guru Maharaj Ji. If we direct all oru energy to taht one point, with no concern for the result of this selfless action, then Guru Maharaj Ji -- like a magnifying glass -- will burn away all the separation that keeps real unity from manifesting.

Most of us know from our own experience with our own family and friends that only Guru Maharaj Ji can bring then into His love. We can try and try, but until we give up that desire to do it we only make matters worse with our personal desires and lack of trust. Obeying the agya of Guru Maharaj Ji and tending to own own spiritual growth is good advice.

So, my dear brothers and sisters, no one said that the path was simple -- but actually it is simple if we get down to the simple agya of Guru Maharaj Ji. When we do satsang, service and meditation, then we experience the Grace, the peace and joy of seeing Guru Maharaj Ji's plan unfold perfectly for this world. The physical life of Guru Maharaj Ji is here to make our lives easier -- but if our mind doubts then that same life -- Hist style, etc. -- will throw us into confusion.

Guru Maharaj Ji is the Supreme power who is taking care of everything in this world. If we relax and remember to remember that Guru Maharaj Ji is Conscious of all life; then our life becomes full of peace and bliss.

I hope this letter helps you some. If you have any comments or questions please feel free to write to me. Jai Satchitanand,

Your brother in His love,

[Mike]

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Date: Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 02:35:31 (GMT)
From: la-ex
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: OK, where's donners repsonse?
Message:
Jim-once again,great investigative reporting,muckraking,and a great laugh for all...

Just wondering,since you spoke to donner a few years back in canada,do you think he would be interested in commenting on this,similar to dettmers?

I spoke to him in the late 80's and his tone was very different from his 70's stance.Wonder what his new millenium perspective is,and how he would view his 70's rhetoric....

la-ex

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Date: Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 02:50:31 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: la-ex
Subject: My guess?
Message:
My guess is that Donner hates me right now. After all, I'm the guy who revealed what he told me about:

1) Maharaji directly and personally ordering him to sneak Fakiranand out of the country and Mike doing just that, driving him first from Detroit to Chicago and then across the border to Canada.

2) it being common knowledge way back when that Maharaji had a mistress.

3) him realizing way back when that Maharaji wasn't really ever going to be his bud when Donner tried to give Maharaji a hug but the latter either recoiled or was a little stiff.

4) him exploiting some Amtext type book deal and making off with a lot of money.

5) him dissing Maharaji for bogarting joints and not passing them around like a true man of God.

I don't know. I haven't called him since then. Why don't you? Do you know him? Would you like his number? Email me:

heller@bc1.com

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Date: Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 02:01:11 (GMT)
From: Tonette
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: It's embarrassing that we
Message:
ever fell for this bullshit in the first place. Granted most of us were youngsters. I guess it shows the power of peer pressure and brainwashing.
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Date: Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 19:34:27 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Hey, not everyone at once!
Message:
Am I the only one who finds this stuff fun, interesting and important?
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Date: Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 20:24:47 (GMT)
From: Coach
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Outstandin' Job.
Message:
Mega posting production job there, Jim. It looks real purdy. These Donner posts plus the Raja ji story, when you met him and had a natter, have been really eye opening fodder for me. This Donner stuff is like reading the Dead Sea Scrolls. But that must have been how the DLM top brass thought back then. Blessed this and blessed that. I think the thinking is very similar today except it's not considered cool to talk about it. Yes, we all know he's just the 'Master' but, snigger, we all know who he REALLY is, don't we boys and girls. I love this line:-

'You all probably remember our joy when Maharaj Ji allowed us to announce that Raja Ji had married Claudia.' Well, er, right. Totally joy amnesia actually. I wonder if it was a blessed divorce as it was a blessed mariage?

Also your dialogue with Dettmers has been very good, contrary to some opinion aired here. It just blows the illusion that Maharaji is the only one to benefit materially from the premies' resource input. Sounds as if many more had their snouts in the trough. Everybody else left with fuck all or less if they had debts hanging round their shoulders. He left with a ready made business built on the backs of slave labor and some shocking illnesses from appalling work practices.

I re-read the Bob Mischer radio interview in the light of the Dettmers posts. He got out with nothing but his integrity.

Two other points. I remember you talked with Joan Apter. She apparently said that she wasn't into Maharaji any more. She has a recent post on elanvital.org. now as I'm sure you're aware. So either she lied, fair enough while being confronted by the X's lawyer from hell, or she's had a smart about turn.

Also I took a look around the Dettmers' business site. It's a long shot but I wouldn't put it past him to be still working for Maharaji. A lot of his business philosophy, outlined there, is very team oriented, rah, rah, rah stuff, etc.The kind of strokes the Elan Vital is into at present. Similar style. I guess we'll never know. These EX-PAM's seem to be as tight-lipped as a rattlesnakes ass. (I'm not sure if that's correct English)

Coach

PS. Oh yeah. I still meditate. Like fuck.

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Date: Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 02:17:18 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: drek@oz.net
To: Coach
Subject: That Joan Apter bitch lied, lied, lied...
Message:
I know I saw Joanie either last summer (1999) or the summer before (1998) and she was with some local premies where I live and she was there for an event with Raja Ji. I have forgotten what exactly Jim said that Joan said, but I believe what she said did not jibe with what I had seen for a fact.

She's still a premie.

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Date: Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 23:21:34 (GMT)
From: Liz
Email: None
To: James
Subject: Outstandin' Job.
Message:
Dear Jimmy,

Cringe, Cringe, cringe! It's only made worse by knowing that people still have this mindset. These days they would probably deny it though for P.R. Petes sake.

Lovely to see you and your lovely girlfriend.... Don't spill the beans though please. Email me if you still have my address. Enjoyed the weed!

Liz

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Date: Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 21:49:38 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Coach
Subject: Thanks, Coach (and one correction)
Message:
If I recall, Joan didn't tell me she was through with Maharaji so much as explain that a) she has her own life now and is no longer active in the organization in any way; and b) she regrets nothing.

But, hell, I can't really remember now. Did she tell me that she hasn't seen him either for years? Sorry, can't recall. It's in the archives, I guess. I don't know, maybe it was the dinner party she was getting ready for but all I could think of was Martha Stewart, only a little more tight and impenetrable, if you can imagine.

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Date: Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 02:21:24 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: drek@oz.net
To: Jim
Subject: Like I said above - Joan lied!
Message:
I know I saw Joan in my town on the weekend that Raja Ji spoke. It was either summer of 1998 or 1999.

Joan was in the presence of premies that I knew so don't buy that not involved with Maharaji anymore. She was in town as part of the Raja Ji event.

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Date: Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 02:28:31 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: Of course she's a premie. Read this..... (repost)
Message:
Here's the link (mind never work for some reason):

The REAL Joan Apter

And here's the URL just in case:

http://www.ideachampions.com/staff.shtml#joan

Note how Joan and Ditkoff are doing the same thing as Dettmers, trying to rationalize away their cult fanaticism as 'management consulting'.

My favorite quote from the site?

Well it's all so shlocky but there are a few choice blurbs that must have special significance for the (former?) cult members in the company. Here's one:

'Face the Music

Proof that the Millennium is upon us… Face the Music is a highly accomplished, interactive business blues band that gives participants a constructive way to express their corporate blues, while simulaneously sparking teamwork, risk taking and innnovation. A perfect way to energize participants and launch a company conference. Recent clients include: GE, Panasonic, Aventis, Con Edison and Ernst & Young.'

Here's another:

'Keynotes

Interactive, 60-90 minute presentations that help people get off their 'ifs, ands or buts' and into creative action. Topics include: 'Free the Genie,' 'Beyond Limiting Assumptions,' 'Leading Indicators of an Innovator,' 'Creative Thinking 101,' 'Fostering Innovation in the Workplace,' 'Idea Greenhouse,' and 'Reinventing Retirement.''

But then, there's this bizarre thingamajigger:

The Ten Commandments
for Visiting a New Age Ashram

During the past two decades, a curious phenomenon has swept this nation. Inspired by the teachings of several Master souls from the East, an unusually large number of ashrams have made their appearance on the scene -- spiritual retreats designed to provide seekers of the truth with a focused environment in which to practice their particular spiritual path.

While most people who spend time in an ashram are extremely dedicated and sincere, there still remains a goodly number who, in their attempt to have 'an experience,' miss the point completely. Seduced by the Western notion of cause and effect, they somehow think that spiritual attainment is related to the way they act -- as if God were some kind of transcultural Santa Claus looking for good little boys and girls to bring his shiny red firetrucks to. Not surprisingly, the spirit of the law is all too often traded for the letter -- a letter that, no matter how many stamps are put on it, is continually returned for insufficient postage. Surrender is replaced by submission; patience by hesitation; and humility by timidity. Alas, in the name of finding themselves, our God-seeking brothers and sisters have tended to lose the very thing that makes them truly human -- their individuality.

And so, with great respect to your personal God, your Guru, your Guru's Guru, and your favorite tax-deductible charity, I humbly offer you the following soul-saving tips should you decide to visit (or move into) the local ashram of your choice. Take what you can, leave the rest, and remember -- it's not whether your shoes are on or off, but if your heart is open...

1. DO NOT CHANGE THE WAY YOU WALK
Most visitors to a new age ashram think they have to change the way they walk if they are truly going to have a spiritual experience. Somehow, they believe there is a direct correlation between the way they move their feet and the amount of 'grace' or 'blessings' about to enter their lives. The 'ashram walk,' is actually a not-too-distant cousin of the 'museum walk,' the curious way a person slows down and shuffles knowingly, yet humbly, past a Monet (or is it a Manet?), silently 'getting' the essence of the Masterpiece even as they move noddingly towards that incomprehensible cubist piece in the next room. If you like, think of the ashram walk as the complete opposite of the on-the-way-to-work-walk or the exiting-a-disco-in-New York walk. Simply put, the ashram walk is a way of moving that practitioners believe will attract small deer from nearby forests -- deer that will literally walk right up to them and eat from their hand -- more proof to anyone in the general vicinity that they are, in fact, enlightened souls, humble devotees, children of God, or the so-far-unacknowledged successors to their guru's lineage.

Ideally, the ashram walk should be taken in sandals, though Reeboks or Chinese slippers will do in a pinch. Cowboy boots are definitely out, as are galoshes, high heels, and Chuck Taylor Converse All-Stars.

2. DO NOT, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES, SUCCUMB TO THE ASHRAM 'NOD'
Closely related to the ashram walk, the ashram nod is routinely practiced in spiritual retreats the world over. And while no one completely comprehends it's divine origins, many believe it began when a blissful ashram brother simply forgot the name of his roommate on his way to the bathroom. Instead of issuing the familiar sanscrit phrase of the week, our trend-setting friend simply tightened his lips, looked at the ground and... well... nodded. Now, every time you walk by someone in the ashram, you are half-expected to flash them the nod, the non-verbal equivalent of 'Hi! I know you know, and you know I know, and you know that I know that you know, and in my knowing, I know that I know you know, and by so knowing, need not speak, since words are finite and cannot express the knowingness which the two of us (being one) share from such a knowful place. Know what I mean?'

3. DO NOT JUDGE ANYONE, INCLUDING YOURSELF
This is the hardest of all commandments to obey. Why? Because spiritual environments not only bring out the best in people, they also bring out the worst. And while the worst is often more difficult to detect than the bliss of people wanting you to notice how blissful they are, the higher you get, the easier it is to notice -- that is, if you are looking for it. Of course, it would be very easy to spend your entire ashram visit noticing all the subtle ego trips going on around you. Resist this temptation with all your might! Do not, I repeat, do not, focus on the stuff that would make good material for this article. You have no right. In fact, you have absolutely no idea why anyone is there, what their motivation is, or how they will learn the kinds of lessons you are absolutely sure they need to learn. In reality, you are most likely seeing your own projections -- those disowned parts of your self that you've refused to acknowledge all these years: your spiritual groupie, your brownie point collector, your junkie for more experience, your suburban yogi , your guilty seeker of God, your con man, your eunuch, your Peter Pan, your resolution maker, your ass watcher, your glutton for humble pie, your seeker of the perfect mate, your closet fanatic, your too patient listener, your definer of ecstasy, your flaming bullshit artist, your know-it-all, your have-it-all, your reader of too many Shirley McLaine books, and your spring-headed bower towards anyone with more than two devotees. All of them are you! Every single one of them! Don't judge them. Love them! Bring them tea! Rub their feet every chance you get!

4. DO NOT THINK THAT THIS IS THE ONLY PLACE WHERE IT IS HAPPENING
Ashram aficionados have a marked propensity to think that the grounds they inhabit are somehow more blessed than any place else on earth -- that they are privy to a special command performance by God, revealing himself in thousands of exotic ways for those lucky enough to be there, while thousands, nay millions, of Ed Koch-like souls are stumbling around in uncool places recently vacated by the Power of Life so a very cosmic thing can happen here and only here this weekend. Life, in fact, is often perceived as so good in the ashram, that the rest of the world becomes eerily cast as the 'booby prize.' Indeed, to ashram dwellers, everything else is simply referred to as 'the world,' much like Manhattanites speak of New Jersey. In short, the ashram comes to represent all that is good -- about God, about the Guru, about life itself. Somehow ('and I don't know how, but you could ask anyone who was there this weekend') flowers seem sweeter at the ashram, the moon seems fuller, the air seems cleaner. Even the bread tastes better. If you glimpse a shooting star at night, it's the 'guru's grace.' If you see a double rainbow, it's directly over the meditation hall.

I guess it's all in how you look at it. The same shooting star convincing you that your guru is, in fact, the Supreme Guru, was also seen by a plumber named 'Leroy' who just happened to be drinking a beer in between innings of the Mets game. His conclusion? The Mets were gonna win 20 of the next 25 and bring the pennant home to Flushing! What do the signs in the sky (or what we perceive as signs) really mean? Isn't the whole world our ashram? Isn't the whole universe our ashram? Isn't the real issue one of appreciating what is happening all around us? The flowers? The stars? The beggars asking for spare change? Flowers aren't any sweeter at the ashram. It's our willingness to breathe deeply and enjoy them that's different. What's stopping us from being in this place right now? What's stopping us from realizing that the very ground beneath our feet is the promised land -- wherever we happen to be at the time.

5. DO NOT PUT A RED DOT ON YOUR FOREHEAD IF YOU DON'T WANT TO
Unless you've been living in a trailer park your whole life, you probably already know what the red dot thing is all about. That's right. The third eye. The sixth chakra. High holiness. INDIA!! While sometimes mistaken for a beauty mark or a random bit of watermelon, the little red dot is actually a useful reminder to focus one's attention on the space between the eyebrows, which, for some people, is where God lives (or if not lives, at least vacations). Nothing wrong with that, now is there? Still, you have to concede that the third eye isn't the only spot on the human body that's sacred. What about the earlobes? The belly button? The nipples? They come from God, too -- not too mention chakras #1 - 5 and the highly under-represented center of consciousness at the crown of the head. Sacred, every one of them! Don't you think that, if the body is the temple of the soul, it follows that our entire physical structure is sacred? Shouldn't we be covered from head to toe with little red dots? And if so, why is it that we routinely quarantine people with measles -- the very people who have selflessly chosen to manifest disease just to remind us to honor our body's ultimate holiness?

6. PLAY WITH THE CHILDREN
The only sentient beings free from the collective mentality of ashram life are the children. Children visiting ashrams, in fact, behave the same way the world over no matter what adjectives their elders use for the unspeakable name of God. When they're hungry, they eat. When they're tired, they sleep. They cry when they want to, laugh for no reason, consume ice cream without guilt, and rarely wonder why your picture of the Master is bigger, newer, or better framed.

7. FART AT YOUR OWN RISK
If you fart, and there's no one around to hear it in the ashram, did it happen? And if it did happen, does that mean you've been disrespectful? Is the resident Guru able to hear you? And if he or she is meditating, out of the country, or dead, is their guru or their guru's guru able to hear you? And if so, so what? Will you be reborn as a gerbil? Does the Guru fart? And if it's OK for him or her to pass wind, why not you? OK, so it's their ashram and you're a guest. But after all, aren't we all guests here? Even the Guru? Who do they answer to? And if it's not the same one you're answering to, what the hell are you doing getting up at five in the morning and sitting cross-legged? Maybe the real question isn't whether or not it's permissible to fart in the ashram, but how you fart. For instance, if you're farting out of a blatant disregard for the Master's teachings or the sincerity of his or her followers, you might want to reconsider where you're coming from. However, if your farting is just a random release of gas, relax! Give yourself the benefit of the doubt. You see, a typical visit to the ashram often quickens one's ability to 'let go' -- so what you call 'farting' may, in fact, be a timely sign of your evolving spiritual condition.

8. DO NOT THINK YOU ARE HIGHER OR LOWER THAN ANYONE ELSE
One of the favorite pastimes of people visiting a spiritual retreat is comparing themselves to everyone else. 'See the guy over there carrying firewood? He's a very old soul -- way older than me. Been on the path for years. And that dude laughing hysterically in the corner? That's Shiva. Oops, he can probably see through me, maybe I better walk around the other way.'

Want to save yourself some time? Don't try to figure out how 'on the path' anybody else is. It's impossible. Stare into the eyes all you want, watch for tell-tale signs of liberation, but when it comes right down to it, the only conclusion you'll reach will be your own -- one that may have absolutely nothing to do with the anything but your own projections. Face it, how accurate is your assessment going to be when 98 percent of humanity couldn't tell that the 'carpenter' from Galilee had something special going for him? Indeed, it's not at all unlikely that the beer-bellied, first-time visitor to the ashram you met this morning at breakfast is, at this very moment, being treated like a spiritual mongoloid by everyone who meets him (repeatedly being asked if 'this is your first time') when, in fact, the beer-bellied, first-time visitor is actually the reincarnation of Buddha.

9. DO NOT THINK THAT YOU ARE GOING TO GET SOMETHING
Many people visit an ashram because they want to get something. They want 'clarity' or 'contentment,' 'enlightenment' or 'grace,' 'blessings' or 'piece of mind.' At the very least, they want their business to improve or their marriage to be saved. Alas, they miss the point completely: If you try to get, you will lose, left only with the sinking feeling of having just bought $300 worth of lottery tickets only to learn that some electrician from Staten Island just won the whole thing. It's really very simple. You don't go to an ashram (or a Teacher, for that matter) to get. You go to give, to let go -- to relax your grip on the very thing that's been separating you from getting all these years: Your grasping. Your fear. Your well-rehearsed strategy to realize God.

10. DO NOT FEEL COMPELLED TO CHANGE YOUR NAME
OK, so your name is Joey. Ever since you were knee high to a can of Cheese Whiz, everyone called you Joey -- as in, 'Hey, Joey, what's goin' down, bro'?' Yeah, you grew up in Brooklyn, cut school once a week, and dated a chick named Angela with very big boobs. Great. So, here you are at the ashram and ba-bing, you run smack into a bunch of dudes with names like Arjuna, Govinda, Namdev,Shanti, Krishna. 'Hey,' you think to yourself, 'maybe they got something I don't.'

Guess what? They do. They have a spiritual name given to them by their Guru -- names that make their mothers somewhat close-lipped around the canasta table. And while these names are clearly given with a purpose, the fact of the matter is -- they are irrelevant. Do you think the people in India who have spiritual experiences get their names changed to Eddie, Gino, Edna, or Shirley ? Hey, what difference does it make? You are not your name -- even if your namesake was enlightened. It doesn't matter what they call you, when it's time to go, you're gone. The only name worth knowing at that time is God's name -- and that, my friend, no matter how many mantras you've memorized, can never be pronounced.....

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Date: Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 02:45:10 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: drek@oz.net
To: Jim
Subject: And they are making money with that shit?
Message:
Jim, I thought for a moment that you wrote that 10 commandments to visiting an ashram. Did you?

I think that they are all premies.

Check out Director of Operations Nancy Seroka:

She has also coordinated Public Relations and Fund Raising departments for educational organizations, and has been involved in the successful production of hundreds of conferences on cutting edge topics.

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Date: Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 02:52:56 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: Amazing, isn't it?
Message:
No, of course I didn't write that. It just isn't quite funny enough, Rog. You know that.

And are they making money? I don't know. I feel so sorry for them all. Did you find the pun page there, all the 't's? Pretty fucking pathetic, whether you're in the cult or out. We're talking some major Happy Clapper syndrome extended to the business world.

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Date: Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 02:39:46 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: God! Doesn't that just have her chiding tone?
Message:
I don't know for a fact if that's Apter's satsang. Maybe it's Ditkoff's (I never knew him and only recognize the name). But doesn't that just have Joan written all over it?

God, that little piece about the ashram reminds me how we used to wag our fingers all the time about everything and everyone, setting up impossibly contradictory agendas for ourselves. I mean, here's Joan (?) telling us to avoid judging people just after launching into this far-less-funny-than-she-thinks bullshit about how one walks or even nods at people. Which is it? Huh?

Well, we know Joan, Mitch and any other cult members on that illustrious team had a good teacher. Maharaji is the master at contradictory, self-satisfied finger pointing.

So tell me, how much would you spend of your corporation's money for this crew's inspirational consulting?

By the way, though, I really don't recall Joan ever saying she wasn't a premie. What I remember is her saying that she's no longer actively involved and that she regrets nothing. Why? Because she's not into victim consciousness, being critical, that kind of thing. Instead, she's a management consultant clown.

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Date: Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 02:47:33 (GMT)
From: Monmot
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: I'm just glad ...
Message:
I don't have to dress like Joan anymore. I don't know about you guys, but we grrrl premies were ecouraged to dress and act like her. I could never really do it, though, I guess I was way too vain.
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Date: Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 02:55:32 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Monmot
Subject: You're not the only one
Message:
Actually, all of us Canadian brothers had to dress like her too.

No we didn't. That wasn't even funny. See what's happening to me?

But I DO remember when Denver bought up a whole warehouse full of double-knit polyester suits and sent them to all the ashram brothers in the U.S. and Canada.

God, I wish I could fit into that thing again!

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Date: Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 03:05:34 (GMT)
From: Monmot
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: But would you ever wear it?
Message:
I remember that monster buy of green and black polyester long skirts with supremely dinkoid jackets...I shudder to think about that stuff. And did you ever notice that the guys got skinnier and the grrrls got fatter? All that sublimation whacked us out obviously. I noticed Joan, or whoever, didn't mention ashram fashion in their not-very-funny ashram riff.

And don't forget earth shoes...the color of baby's first summer.

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Date: Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 03:11:20 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Monmot
Subject: If I could fit into it, I'd wear it
Message:
That's a promise, Lord.

Hm, it must have been about a 30 inch waist, maybe even 28.

Can I blame Maharaji for this?

Another funny fashion thing was what happened in Vancouver. All us ashram brothers got the same kind of goofy civil servant raincoats before Millenium. The alternative press, i.e. the Georgia Straight really took the piss out of us on that one. Called us 'gurunoids'.

Boo hoo..

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Date: Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 03:18:44 (GMT)
From: Monmot
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Gurunoids--good name for your band...
Message:
and you could perform in your suit. Time to hit the treadmill, Jim, you now got a goal.
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Date: Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 03:25:48 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Monmot
Subject: It is physically impossible
Message:
Come on, Monmot, you know what Knowledge does to a youthful frame? Look at Bal Bhagwan Ji.

Besides, how can I exercise when I spend all my time in front of this fucking computer?

Sheesh!

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Date: Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 03:33:05 (GMT)
From: Monmot
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Okay, Uncle....we could all probably use a
Message:
a long power outage.

BBJ probably got that way from those bread balls soaked in honey... Gulab jaman? Something like that; sounds like Jamaican weed or a Bob Marley tune.

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Date: Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 20:53:46 (GMT)
From: RobertB
Email: bobb@wintelsolutions.com
To: anyone
Subject: the haves and have nots
Message:
'Guru Maharaj Ji is the Supreme power who is taking care of everything in this world. If we relax and remember to remember that Guru Maharaj Ji is Conscious of all life; then our life becomes full of peace and bliss.'

Wow - I'd like to hear Al Gore say something like that, now that would liven-up the debates.

Seriously though, it's hard to believe but these kind of comments were routine back then - and if you had any doubts you were some kind of underdeveloped neandertal.

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Date: Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 21:58:41 (GMT)
From: Coach
Email: None
To: RobertB
Subject: No Title
Message:
RB,

'Guru Maharaj Ji is the Supreme power who is taking care of everything in this world. If we relax and remember to remember that Guru Maharaj Ji is Conscious of all life; then our life becomes full of peace and bliss.' And when we wake up we will be completely broke and fit only for the laughing farm.

The Donner posts also illustrate beautifully the 'high priest' role that he and others played. The first five pages subject matter is about the family bust up. The sixth is the explanation. But notice that the stupid standard issue premie was not considered to have sufficient active brain cells to deal with the facts alone. A simple memo stating that Maharaji's mother and brother have gone loop da loop could have been used. But no. Donner goes into the whole cosmic explanation thing. Gotta explain to everybody what's REALLY going on. The premies couldn't understand it without the 'high priest's' elavated perspective. I mean, guys, this ain't really just a dysfunctional power hungry family, let me tell you what's really happenin'. Mike Donner and Micheal Dettmers, the initiators, mahatmas and others were used to maintain CONTROL over the guys in the trenches. Which is what it was and is all about. CONTROL. What I'm trying to say is that there were and still are so many people trying to manipulate the remaining premies with this crap. Fuck 'em. Thieves and vagabonds.

Holy family. Jesus, just a bunch of carpetbagging bums.

Coach

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Date: Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 21:51:04 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: RobertB
Subject: That is SO funny!
Message:
This is the third time now I've considered Al Gore saying that -- no, make that four -- and I still crack up. Good one.
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Date: Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 22:30:21 (GMT)
From: Coach
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Actually, fuckin' hilarious.
Message:
Imagine Bush's facial expression if Al came out with this at the debates.

'Guru Maharaj Ji is the Supreme power who is taking care of everything in this world. If we relax and remember to remember that Guru Maharaj Ji is Conscious of all life; then our life becomes full of peace and bliss.'

Mah gawd!!

The political analysts would crane their necks a little closer to the monitors. 'What did the fuck he just say?'

Very funny.

Coach

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Date: Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 22:47:32 (GMT)
From: Tim Russert
Email: None
To: Coach
Subject: Imagine Bush Trying to SAY it.
Message:
Guru Maharaj Ji is the Supreme power who is taking care of everything in this world. If we relax and remember to remember that Guru Maharaj Ji is Conscious of all life; then our life becomes full of peace and bliss.

It would come out something like:

'Gooroo Margie is the Sunbeam payer who is taking care of everything in this world. If we rolex and remember to be rememberable, that Gooroo Margie is coos coos of all life; then our life becomes full of pizza and blintzes.'

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Date: Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 23:04:40 (GMT)
From: Cooch
Email: None
To: Tim Russert
Subject: HELP!!!!
Message:
Most excellent. I'm turnin' mah compooter off now. Time for one of my little pills an' a slug.

Bah.

Cooch

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Date: Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 00:41:29 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Cooch
Subject: Another lila job, huh?
Message:
I thought it was a confidentiality agreement. What happened?

Oh so, so beautifull, I can not begin to explain what this crapp is doing to me, it is just sooo beautifull

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Date: Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 22:45:22 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Coach
Subject: Alright, that's FIVE now (nt)
Message:
ffff
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Date: Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 16:09:22 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Where was my Kriya expert when I needed him?
Message:
Is this the untold story of the breath technique 'Holy Name'?

There is a breathing technique that is very essential to doing the Tantric Kriya practices. In yoga, it is called ujjayi breath. As you breath in, slightly contract the glottis (The opening between the vocal cords at the upper part of the larynx). You will know you are doing this correctly when you feel a gentle constriction that will cause a slightly audible rasping sound, almost like a quiet snore. The constriction should not be so tight as to restrain the air forcefully. It can be very subtle and smooth. If you are having problems experiencing this sensation, contact a yoga teacher for a demonstration; it is a very common yogic technique. Once you understand how to do it, it will come easily. There is a very important physiological phenomenon that occurs when ujjayi breath is practiced. The breathing slows down and the blood pressure is lowered in the body. This naturally relaxes the body allowing one to feel comfortable in the inward state. Closing the eyes will intensify the experience. It is almost as if one is asleep, but inside thoughts continue to happen.

Practice ujjayi with the awareness of the breath filling and vacating the lungs as described above. This is the very first Tantric Kriya practice. There are many many Kriya practices. Most mystical traditions incorporate Kriya practices for reaching higher states. This column will present these practices starting with the simple ones and advancing to more complex techniques that move energy and undertake specific visualizations. Tantrikas view the body as a laboratory and Kriyas as the tools for experimentation. Regular practice will help you relax your physical body, become aware of your subtle body, expand your consciousness, and experience drug-less states of trancendence.

There is a mythology about Kriya practices made popular through Paramahansa Yogananda's book, Autobiography of a Yogi. Over a thousand years ago, a man named Babaji obtained perfection in his practice of Kriyas. He transcended all his karmas and became a Mahasiddha, a Great Saint, an Immortal beyond the physical limitations of the body. Rather than merging with the trancendental reality, he remained on the etheric plane to help aspirants along the path of spiritual awakening. Over time, the Kriya techniques were lost or forgotten. During the nineteenth century, Mahasiddha Babaji decided it was time once again for people to practice Kriyas. He appeared to many spiritual saints, including Yogananda's Sadguru Lahiri Mahasay. Revealing the techniques, he re-established the Kriya techniques in many different lineages and traditions. It is not important what school of yoga or lineage you follow, Tantric Kriyas are in all mystic traditions. It is said that there are 108 Kriyas, 78 are practices that the individual does alone, the other 30 are practices to be done with a partner. In this column we will explore the practices for the individual, in the column Tantric Sharing, we will explore practices that two people can do.

So Ham Kriya

The secret with this Kriya is to achieve perfection with ujjayi breath. Ujjayi is accomplished by a slight contraction of the glottis that restricts the air flow through the throat. Ujjayi breath will allow you to take slower and deeper breaths, even up to one minute for a single breath, without the feeling that you are running out of air. It allows you to go into deeper and deeper inward states. Physiologically, it reduces the blood pressure which naturally relaxes the body.

To review this technique, breathe easily through the nose. Now, as you breathe out slowly cut off the flow of air at the throat. This is accomplished by the contraction of the glottis. Practice stopping the exhalation in this manner for five or six times. Now slowly reduce the air flow but do not stop it. Let the throat close just a little bit so air flow is easy but you can feel the slight constriction. Now practice breathing in, while maintaining a constant constriction. Breathing both in and out with the same tension of the glottis will quickly become natural.

Ajapa Japa. In Sanskrit Japa means repetition. Ajapa means not repeated. Thus Ajapa Japa means that which is repeated and yet cannot be repeated. It is the sound which goes on continuously in the body without conscious effort. When you achieve success with ujjayi, you will hear a constant rasping sound as the air passes through the glottis. This sound is the key to the So Ham Kriya. Listen to the sound. As you inhale, hear the sound So. As you exhale, hear the sound Ham. In this meditation, called Ajapa Japa or the breath mantra, one just listens to the sound of the breath.

So Ham Kriya. With the So Ham Kriya we intensify the experience by adding awareness. Remember breath and awareness are our two allies. Sit in a comfortable position with the back straight not touching any support. Bring your awareness to mooladhara chakra, the perineum point in men, inside the vagina for women. Using ujjayi breath, let your awareness ascend with the breath through frontal passage of the body. This is known as psychic breathing because the breath seems to be entering the body through mooladhara chakra rather than through the nose. As you inhale, inwardly say the sound Sooooo while listening to the breath. Inhale slowly and move the awareness from mooladhara to swadhisthana kshetram, manipura kshetram, anahata kshetram, vishuddhi kshetram, to bindu at the back of the head. Begin your exhalation inwardly saying the sound Hammmm as you move your awarness to ajna chakra, then down the spinal channel from vishuddhi chakra, to anahata chakra, manipura chakra, swadhisthana chakra, back to mooladhara. With one continual exhalation listen to the sound of the breath as you inwardly chant the sound Ham, and feel it vibrate down the spine. Repeat this circuit. Inhale with So up the frontal channel. Exhale with Ham down the spinal channel.

You will soon fall into a deep state, almost hypnotic. Yet as you maintain your awareness through the Kriya Chakra Circuit, you will also stay conscious. Someone coming into the room at this time will think you are asleep gently snoring, yet be puzzled by the fact that you are sitting up straight.
To keep from going too deep and possibly falling asleep, do the So Ham Kriya with the eyes open. Do not focus on anything. Use the soft gaze technique by noticing what is in the pheripheral vision rather than in front. This Kriya can be done forty to sixty times.

After practicing the So Ham Kriya, you may hear a soft high pitch hiss similar to the electrical sound of a TV or other appliance. Yet this sound is internal. It is the mystical sound that is made with no object vibrating. It is Ajapa Japa. When you hear it, just be with it as long as you can. Advanced practices of Ajapa Japa focus on listening for the sounds between this sound. There are many mystical sounds that are heard in the inner realm. From these, the East Indians constructed all their musical instruments, each trying to replicate as closely as possible the sounds heard by their sages.

Ajapa japa uses slightly different mantrams in different traditions. These include

So Ham,
So Hum,
Hum Sa,
Hung Sa,
Ham Sa, and
Hong Sau.

In Tantric Kriya Yoga, we use the mantrams So Ham or So Hum, instead of its reverse variants, that may say Hum with the inhalation and Sa with the exhalation. Those of you who are familiar with the teachings of Paramahansa Yogananda may have practiced the Hong Sau meditation. So Ham belongs to the realm of the Goddess, to the realm of Cosmic Oneness. It invokes the Shakti energy that resides in mooladhara chakra. If you practice Ajapa Japa using So Ham without moving the awareness through the Kriya Chakra Circuit, you will begin to feel a vibration in your genital region as energy builds. We pull that energy upward with awareness and psychic breathing. What does Hong Sau mean? I am He. What does So Ham mean? I am She. So Ham takes you into the emotional female astral plane. Paramahansa Yogananda gave us Hong Sau because he was a celibate monk teaching to a Christian society. He also realized that war was coming and America would need to play an agressive leadership role. Hong Sau keeps the vibration just in the head chakra. So Ham will tap the cosmic energy sleeping in the root chakra. With the So Ham Kriya we awaken the Shakti energy and circulate it through all the chakras and kshetrams creating balance. Now is the time when as many of us as possible must embrace the Shakti power with wholeness and balance to assist during the coming Earth Changes. Women in particular are embodying the Goddess energies. Men also must experience Her ecstasy. Together we can know our wholeness of being and truly become caretakers of this world.

And I had to follow a guru for that?

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Date: Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 23:07:48 (GMT)
From: Bin Liner
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: Where was my Kriya expert when I needed him?
Message:

I can do this in my sleep ; trouble is I get an elbow in the ribs & am brought out of samadhi to the sound of 'fucking shut up you bastard'.

It is indeed difficult to become a realised soul in this age of Kali Yuga.

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Date: Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 01:57:06 (GMT)
From: Tonette
Email: None
To: Bin Liner
Subject: OH My God! LMAO! nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 15:53:02 (GMT)
From: Q
Email: None
To: Everyone/SQ
Subject: welcome to the Steven Quint Forum
Message:
Too much coffee, Steve?
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Date: Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 16:46:16 (GMT)
From: Steven Quint
Email: sequint@home.com
To: Q
Subject: welcome to the Steven Quint Forum
Message:
I'm not stopping anyone else from posting.
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Date: Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 16:51:04 (GMT)
From: Way
Email: None
To: Steven Quint
Subject: Don't bother about Q, Steven,
Message:
let it all out!
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Date: Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 16:11:15 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Q
Subject: welcome to the Steven Quint Forum
Message:
20 years of fart does take it's toll.
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Date: Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 17:05:34 (GMT)
From: Q
Email: None
To: Salam et al.
Subject: I glad to see the tone of this forum has changed..
Message:
from a while back. Err on the side of tolerance, I say.
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Date: Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 17:07:56 (GMT)
From: Q
Email: None
To: Q
Subject: I'm glad to see the tone of this forum has changed
Message:
...I've been spending too much time with Tonto & Tarzan.
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Date: Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 17:16:44 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Q
Subject: Me too. Go away..nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 15:44:02 (GMT)
From: Steven Quint
Email: sequint@home.com
To: Everyone
Subject: Gu Maharaj
Message:
Gu means darkness
Ru means light

Gu Maharaj = Lord Of Darkness

I think that the anus is the darkest part of the body. So any light coming out of Gu Maharaj is analogous to a fart of light.

And if I saw him as radiant he was like a bum lantern.

Going to thousands of programs to be nourished by farts? What a thought!

Regards To All

Steve

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Date: Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 15:20:25 (GMT)
From: Steven Quint
Email: sequint@home.com
To: Everyone
Subject: The Times They Are A-Changin'
Message:
The Times They Are A-Changin'
by Bob Dylan

Come gather 'round people
Wherever you roam
And admit that the waters
Around you have grown
And accept it that soon
You'll be drenched to the bone.
If your time to you
Is worth savin'
Then you better start swimmin'
Or you'll sink like a stone
For the times they are a-changin'.

Come writers and critics
Who prophesize with your pen
And keep your eyes wide
The chance won't come again
And don't speak too soon
For the wheel's still in spin
And there's no tellin' who
That it's namin'.
For the loser now
Will be later to win
For the times they are a-changin'.

Come senators, congressmen
Please heed the call
Don't stand in the doorway
Don't block up the hall
For he that gets hurt
Will be he who has stalled
There's a battle outside
And it is ragin'.
It'll soon shake your windows
And rattle your walls
For the times they are a-changin'.

Come mothers and fathers
Throughout the land
And don't criticize
What you can't understand
Your sons and your daughters
Are beyond your command
Your old road is
Rapidly agin'.
Please get out of the new one
If you can't lend your hand
For the times they are a-changin'.

The line it is drawn
The curse it is cast
The slow one now
Will later be fast
As the present now
Will later be past
The order is
Rapidly fadin'.
And the first one now
Will later be last
For the times they are a-changin'.

Copyright © 1963; renewed 1991 Special Rider Music

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Date: Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 15:42:10 (GMT)
From: It rocks!!
Email: None
To: Steven Quint
Subject: The Times They Are A-Changin' (yes) NT
Message:
NT
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Date: Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 14:39:21 (GMT)
From: popeye the sailor man
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: m's yacht
Message:
Dear all-as Roger mentioned,it's going to be hard for EV folks to travel the country begging for donations while lard has his 7 million dollar boat.A friend of mine talked to John Miller about 3 years ago, and John told him that he was delivering the boat from Fla. to Rhode Island for the 'client'.So that is at least 3 years he has had it,and EV has been begging for money during that time.It should be harder to get donations now that this is known.

suggestion:would it be possible to get some photos of it?
A link to his boat photo site might be a nice way to get folks over to this site.Premies and aspirants would get a chance to see their master's boat and then epo as well...

Joke:A family was vacationing next to the Rawat's at the beach.One of their kids says 'mom,can we go into the water now?'.
Mother replies, 'no son,there's not room yet,Mr. Rawats still using the ocean'.

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Date: Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 15:11:59 (GMT)
From: RobertB
Email: bobb@wintelsolutions.com
To: anyone
Subject: He's gonna be in his mind over this -
Message:
Shamuraji's gonna have a flippin fit if the premies start leaving in droves. I've heard his trantrums can be extemely nasty.
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Date: Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 12:56:24 (GMT)
From: Steven Quint
Email: sequint@home.com
To: Everyone
Subject: Fortune
Message:
Fortunate are those who can get themselves out of this fucking mess.

Love

Steve

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Date: Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 15:07:00 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Steven Quint
Subject: You made it, bud, you're out !!!
Message:
Hang in there Steve, the worst is behind you, it only gets better from here on out...
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Date: Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 11:19:11 (GMT)
From: Steve Quint
Email: sequint@home.com
To: Everyone
Subject: Hans Yog Prakash
Message:
The following is a quote from Hans Yog Prakash, written by PP Rawat's father who was master before PP. It is availble on this site at:

http://www.ex-premie.org/papers/hyp.htm


A greedy guru and his envious disciple compete with each other for a place in the circles of hell. A dumb guru and his deaf disciple accomplish nothing, for one does not hear what the other does not speak.

Steve Quint

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Date: Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 03:43:51 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Poor Maharaji, if only he'd stayed in India
Message:
Obviously none of this confrontation, for what it's worth (personally, I think it's worth a lot) would have ever happened if only he'd stayed in India. Mind you, he wouldn't have gotten Marolyn -- or Monica, for that matter. Maybe he thinks like that.

But he would have had some pretty premie wife. He could have had some mistress. And he definitely would have lived a luxurious lifestyle, just like he already was, just like his father did.

But, no, poor Maharaji believed his own bullshit a bit too much. He actually did, at one point, think that he was the Saviour of Mankind. And, for a brief interlude, the west gave him a little room to strut his stuff.

Ever since then, though, it's been a mess.

I wonder if Maharaji ever thinks that when he goes back to India. I'm sure his main reason for going is just to piss on his brother's tree. But somewhere in the back of his mind I bet he wonders, why in the world did he ever leave.....

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Date: Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 17:40:14 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Poor Maharaji, if only he'd stayed in India
Message:
I think Maharaji likes living in the West, partly because more luxuries are available to him, and partly because I think he gets tired of having to play the God role he has to play in India. So, even though the vast majority of his followers are not in the West, he still lives there, obviously because he likes it.

Plus, I believe Bal Baghwan Ji has a bigger following in India than Maharaji does, and that must be kind of painful, and Bal Baghwan Ji even has Perm Negar and most of the old DLM facilities.

Actually, I believe Maharaji lost the India court case in 1975, and most of the DLM assets and most of his father's followers went to Bal Baghwan Ji and Mata Ji.

Plus, there are thousands of gurus in India. He's just one more.

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Date: Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 13:23:36 (GMT)
From: General Electric
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: I thought it was for the appliances.(nt)
Message:
We bring good thing to life.
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Date: Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 18:02:12 (GMT)
From: California Dairy Assoc.
Email: None
To: General Electric
Subject: Why did Maharaji come to California......?
Message:
It's the cheese.

[For all you non-Californians, this is a HUGE advertising slogan by the California Dairy Association, on television and billboards.]

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Date: Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 04:11:00 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: drek@oz.net
To: Jim
Subject: No, Jim, Maharaji has Serentity
Message:
But, Jim, do you think that Maharaji could have ever squeezed enough cash from Indian premies needed to buy a 7 million dollar 106 foot motor yacht named Serenity if he had stayed in India?

And a 25 million dollar Gulfstream.
And a 20 to 30 million dollar Malibu estate.
And estates all over the world.
A fleet of luxury cars.
A wristwatch collection.
Expensive art work.

It's not easy being rich, you know.

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Date: Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 07:35:21 (GMT)
From: Janet of Venice
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: No, Jim, Maharaji has Serentity
Message:
here's some brutally truthful data from a ship owner who is my landlord, and an ex-NASA physicist. I invite any one interested to do the math implied from this, and figure out how much this toyboat is gonna cost the premies AFTER he acquires it!!
to wit, I quote---(((curved parenthetical remarks are mine)))
'normally about 20% down is required to buy a boat, after which you get a loan for the balance at about 10-12%, with a term of 15 years, or 30 years if it is a big loan, over 100k or so. you must have fair credit, and be able to show income that will pay the loan back... usually they require that only 1/3 of your income be devoted to long term expenses, like rent, loan payments, etc.  For instance, if you wanted to buy a 30 ft.-long boat costing $10,000, you would need $2,000 down and a loan of $18,000 - say at 12 % interest for 15 years, or with payments of $216.03 for 15 years. [the 10% payment would be $193.43 and if you could get a 10%/30yr loan, then the payments would be $157.96] -  in order to qualify for the loan, your monthly income would have to be three times your rent,  $500 plus your loan payment, $216.03,  or 3x[$500 + $216.03] = $2148.09 or about $25k a year.
~> In addition to your loan payments, you would have to pay slip fees of about $10/foot per month, and
~>insurance of about $500 a year for a 30ft boat worth $10,000.
~> Add in maintenance,
and operating supplies,
and you get the final figure...
probably around $216 + $300 [slip fee] + $42 [insurance] + $100 [everything else] = $658 a month...
i have assumed a 30 foot boat.
one other thing... most marinas double their slip fees if you live aboard... and most marinas do not allow liveaboards at all...
to sail away into the sunset... you can go to latitude 38 web site and look around for a start... you also might find a desperate seller who you can make a deal with... like $500 down and small monthly payments to pay off the boat... anything is possible...
€ € € € € € € € € € €
as far as million dollar boats... you must have million dollar incomes to afford them...
the maintenance cost of boats go up as
~~~>>>the cube of the length... so if a million dollar boat was 100 feet long, then roughly 100 x [100/30]**3 = $3699 a month... and those big boats have even more expenses than the little 30 footer .. like fuel
[diesel costs about 1.50 a gallon,
a 100 footer burns about 10 gallons per mile]
crew [30k a year at least... you need at least one for a 100 footer]
(((†...well-- we KNOW the poor schmucks who will get drawn into doing THAT for nothing, just like at DECA))))
and slip fees are much more, since there are few 100 foot slips...
be prepared to spend $10k a month, at least.'
(‡ for a one million dollar boat..do we assume a factor of 7 for a $7M boat??)
someone crunch the numbers for us, and report back to all of us, below this post, please?
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Date: Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 00:56:53 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: drek@oz.net
To: Janet of Venice
Subject: Not to be patronizing to my new friend, but...
Message:
That was good work, Janet.

I know a little about boats and your work was quite good. People with boats that large typically have a full time crew of at least one person as you said.

$10,000 per month! It's not even like Maharaji is going to be spending a whole lot of his time on the boat, is he? It's a real luxury item.

So, where does one get $10,000 a month?

It' way more than I make. Didn't Maharaji sleep on couches when he first came to the West? And now this? And how?

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Date: Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 04:53:22 (GMT)
From: suchabanana
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: the yacht is the clincher - tell all the premies!!
Message:
That's what will blow up the whole shebang -- Serenity. Damn the torpedoes, full steam ahead!

Registered: for the 'personal' benefit/use of the owner.

Was this needed for propagation, too? Nope.

How much is enough, and how much is too ----ing much to even believe anymore? 'It isn't easy to be rich' 'It isn't easy; it's not what you think!'

'First you have one million, then you need another million to protect the first million, and then...'
[Mahamantra of Arti 2000] tray? ghee? matches? music, please: a 1 and a 2 an... Oh, I forgot, we don't need no stinking matches.

Peace,

PS Rog, can you help me set up a healing/recovery site (technical stuff)? We're gonna need one -- real soon.

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Date: Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 05:18:57 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: drek@oz.net
To: suchabanana
Subject: Exactly! How can he ever ask for money again?
Message:
The yacht is the clincher!

How can he ever send his people around on their Participation Tours to ask for more money when he's blowing huge amounts of money on luxuries that cannot ever be justified for helping the cause of spreading knowledge. Fuck you, Maharaji, put some of your own dough in the hat for once.

I've been to those Participation Meetings only a few years ago and these guys and gals will tell you that Elan Vital is practically going out of business and that the success of mission of spreading Maharaji's knowledge is in serious jeopardy and blah, blah, blah.

Oh, really now. Just how bad can it be?

Tell me about the peace and the serenity one more time, please?

S. Banana - recovery, huh? I don't know nothing about that. It's party time like it's 1999 and Maharaji has to sell Rambla Del Oro in Malibu.

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Date: Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 22:44:48 (GMT)
From: Bin Liner
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: Exactly! How can he ever ask for money again?
Message:

He's never going to stop asking for it, until there's none left to ask for.

There are plenty of people from the Indian diaspora , now with a few bob in their pockets , & an understandable desire to know more about their 'roots' , to be exploited.

He never misses a trick , does he ?

FUCK HIM

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Date: Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 01:37:25 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Donner's letter of September, 74 (thanks Bill!)
Message:
Finally, after waiting for literally years, I received Bill Burke's promised care package. I now have a bright blue Shri Hans swan coffee cup on my desk for pens and a few other bizarre relics. One is this letter from Mike Donner, filled, as you can see, with all sorts of fun treats:

Salutations at the Lotus Feet of Satgurudev
DIVINE LIGHT MISSION
NATIONAL HEADQUARTERS
FIVE ELEVEN SIXTEENTH STREET
DENVER, COLORADO 80202
303-623-8280

6 September 1974

TO: DUO DIRECTORS

Dear brothers:

Mahatma Jagdeo and I have been on the phone a good deal lately with Guru Maharaj Ji and others at the residence. It seems that during this time of apparent calm, the pot is being stirred. Last week I told you that Maharaj Ji has sent a letter throughout India declaring Mahatma Satyanand and Ram Babu 'anti-Guru'. In an important respect that letter was a warning for Mata Ji and Bal Bhagwan Ji, as Ram Babu is one of their most trusted administrators. Rather than deter Mata Ji, it's pushed her further into action against Maharaj Ji. There are two new factions within the Mission in India. One loyal to Guru Maharaj Ji and one loyal to Mata Ji and Bal Bhagwan Ji.

Where this new level of division will go is hard to pinpoint at this time. But simultaneously in the U.S. Bal Bhagwan Ji and Bhole Ji are still very active with the new band -- and out of ingnorance premies are still supporting them monetarily. Mahatma Tejeshwaranand has left the L.A. ashram to live with Bal Bhagwan Ji and Bhole Ji.

It's time for all premies to be clear about devotion. This si the main point that Guru Maharaj Ji is emphasizing now -- DEVOTION to one point, to the Perfect Lord. Without devotion no one can ever understand what this life is all about. Without devotion we can never experience the peace that exists for us to enjoy. Without devotion there can be no understanding of how to live in this world.

Maharaji wants all premies to be prepared for the storm and tests that are to come soon. But how to be prepared? Devotion is the only answer. Because we can explain this point and that point, but real understanding must come from the inside out. In many ways the safety of our family is at stake -- but real security has to be based in a consciousness from within each of us. Guru Maharaj Ji is making everything clear for us now. We must be one-pointed and doing His agya of service, satsang and meditation. If we are doing this agya each day then we will know how to act when Bhole Ji and Bal Bhagwan Ji come to town, or when a mahatma propgating the 'knowledge' of Bal Bhagwan Ji comes around. We cannot be in each city to deal with the confusion that comes and goes. Each premie must become clear and centered and one-pointed.

[The next page is '3' but that could be a typo. It sure looks like it flows together. Mind you, all this shit did, didn't it?]

So this is the main point that Guru Maharaj Ji is making now. It's time to understand devotion and its' time to tighten up the ship. This is not a panic vibe however. The main thing to stress as a DUO director to all premies is devotion now. But in your day to day service begin to tighten security, communication and transportation. Encourage people to let each other know where we go when we leave the house or office -- how to keep in touch, etc., and matters of courtesy. As Mahatma Jagdeo would say, 'we must become like soldiers now, disciplined and brave.' [I told you you'd like it!] Mahatma Ji is absolutely correct, but make sure that communicate and work on all this without creating panic or a crisis vibe. Service to Guru Maharaj Ji is our everyday life and we should just begin to take it more seriously now.

So now we can begin to see why Maharaj Ji has been trying to so hard to keep us in the ashram and single. He wants us to be on-pointed now and free to move quickly without other responsibilities other than to Him and the 'larger' family. We keep straining against Maharaj Ji's timeline. Let's surrneder to His Will now and be ready to serve Him at all costs.

But while these relatively cosmic things are going on, our service is still day to day and must be practised. It's a delicate balance that we must achieve in our lives. To do professional service, to follow through, to work in this Mission as if it were going to last 1000 years and yet be so detached that we won't miss a breath if it ended tomorrow, is not an easy road. But, not only do we have to walk it but we have to try to head other premies down the same narrow line. Everybody's devotion will not manifest in the same way but devotion is the watchword.

So when you go over the enclosed information -- drawing your attention to the packet about 'town councils', please see every opportunity that Maharaj Ji gives us as a tool that we are to use to help Him create devotion in our lives. Any way that we can get premies plugged into the flow of communication and dedication is for everyone's good.

I'd like each of you to please write back feedback about this info on 'town councils'. Over the next month or so we would like to establish a relatively uniform approach to greater community involvement. Each DUO director's input is very important.

I'm going on a Meditation Retreat this weekend with 200 or so Denver premies -- I hope to see you all in the light .....

Jai Satchitanand.

In love and service,

[Mike]

Mike Donner
National Executive Director


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Date: Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 07:16:15 (GMT)
From: Tim Matheson
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: most of the rank and file premies..
Message:
had no idea what was going on. Maybe the ashram premies knew but very few others. It was not openly discussed. Actually, it was pretty effective info control.

Yours in the LIGHT,

JTF

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Date: Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 06:01:30 (GMT)
From: Buzz
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Donner's letter of September, 74 (thanks Bill!)
Message:
Hi Jim,
Do you have any details of the court case re.Mataji and M.
Is it possible to get the newspaper report posted on here.
Regards
Buzz.
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Date: Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 04:37:46 (GMT)
From: CHR
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Donner's letter of September, 74 (thanks Bill!)
Message:
BBJ came and stayed at our ashram on his way to India. It must have been around this time. He was very confused and tired and seemed genuinly distressed. M called to speak to speak to him, but BBJ refused.
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Date: Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 04:25:23 (GMT)
From: suchabanana
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Jagdeo involvement in Holy crisis - puzzle piece!!
Message:
These posts help explain EVI's official non-response r.e. Jagdeo child abuses.

* Jagdeo was very much involved at the time of the Holy Family split.

* EVI's probable legal advice to circle the wagons for damage control and play dumb is surely another other part of the equation.

* EVI certainly doesn't want a major media scandal, at this point r.e. Jagdeo, a cental character in this soap opera, in more ways than one!

The jigsaw puzzle pieces are finally coming together now, and making sense for all to see here.

The wind is definitely shifting...

Peace

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Date: Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 01:50:11 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: And then this gem (JM, you want to put these up?)
Message:
This was all clipped from the same newsletter. The following appears to be more from Donner:

This is an excerpt from the September 2nd ashram mailing. It is concerning the letter Maharaj Ji wrote about Bhole Ji.

'As His letter of 22 July regarding Bhole Ji indicates, the modd is changing. With the reissue of His statement regarding Bhole Ji and Blue Aquarius, also came a letter that Maharaj Ji sent to all the countries of the world regarding two previously active and well-known premies. I am speaking of Mahatma Satyanand and Ram Babu whom most of you know. Maharaj Ji has declared them both manmath -- which means anti-guru, follower of their own minds. Both Maharaj Ji's stand regadring Bhole Ji and this declaration regarding Satyanand and Ram Babu are very strong, offensive blows against the subtle delusion that any of us are subject to falling into. If we didn't see these things as signs to guide us during this difficult time, then we are only foolish because through Satyanand and Ram Babu and Bhole Ji, Maharaj Ji is trying to help us all come to a clear understanding that actually the line that we walk is narrower than we sometimes think.'

'Mahatma Jagdeo feels that we are experiencing only the lull and the pressure before the storm and I really agree. It is time to hold on and be strong. It is time to cathc firmly to satsang, service and meditation and to remember the one point in our life. Otherwise, we are likely to be blown to the hell in our minds.'

'So many of us feeling what you are feeling. So please be only with Guru Maharaj Ji during this time.'

-- Mike Donner

NOTE: By the agya of Guru Maharaj Ji, Teshwaranand is not longer an Mahatma. If he contacts you for any reason please call us immediately. Trevinanand is no longer a Mahatma and the same policy applies.

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Date: Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 09:30:35 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: All this is GREAT stuff IMO, BUT
Message:
someone will have to write an article.

This article would be related to many issues:
- the family split
- Jagedo's role in the early days
- MD's role
- the various official/unofficial versions of what happened, and what's most likely
etc

The more genuine documents, the better, with comments if possible.

And I'd be glad if someone writes this.

Then I'll do the layout and set the appropriate links to other pages.

Volunteers?

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Date: Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 00:38:38 (GMT)
From: Steve Quint
Email: sequint@home.com
To: Everyone
Subject: Did you or did you not receive something real?
Message:
Plese respond sticking to the question.

Steve

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Date: Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 04:46:14 (GMT)
From: CHR
Email: None
To: Steve Quint
Subject: Did you or did you not receive something real?
Message:
No, it was not real in the sense you are talking about. It was a meditation and a lifestyle held together by the delusion that its source and life's source was Maharaji. Sure , there were some nice experiences in meditation etc, but there's experiences in other meditations as well. I convinced myself that I was experiencing truth. In reality I was part of a very insidious belief system- the hallmark of any cult.
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Date: Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 02:49:28 (GMT)
From: Gregg
Email: None
To: Steve Quint
Subject: Did you or did you not receive something real?
Message:
REAL?

Everything...or nothing...is real, depending on your philosophical bent. If you can explain what you mean, I promise you a thoughtful answer.

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Date: Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 01:14:50 (GMT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: Steve Quint
Subject: Did you or did you not receive something real?
Message:
It can't have been that real if you like to imagine Rawat topping himself.

Everything is real. I received three and a half meditation techniques from an Indian lady. That was real. I practised one of the techniques quite a bit. That was real. There was also a lot of crap around and that was real too.

My experience of meditation etc was nothing like what Maharaji goes on about or instructs people to do. Back in 1971 I had a long conversation with a guy who gave me a lift from Gloucester to Exeter. That was more deep and profound than any satsang I ever attended in subsequent years. Of course, he was not a premie.

I find people who've never had anything to do with M or K to be remarkably real and preferable to any premie company.

Reality is the big hole you experience when you go out of your front door and realise someone's stolen your car...

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Date: Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 00:53:58 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Steve Quint
Subject: I gotta shotgun for Christmas once...
Message:
I was hoping for a guitar. Play music, or kill things. Play music, or kill things. Hmmm,what would I rather do?

Anyway don't ever tell me what to do again.

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Date: Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 00:50:44 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Steve Quint
Subject: No, nothing but a few silly tricks
Message:
Steve,

I'm not saying that I didn't have 'experiences'. Sure I did. I lived in an ashram for eight years just because I thought my experiences were so cool they just hd to be worth dropping all else for.

But now I see it differently. Now it all looks like cheap hindu parlour tricks and brain chemistry.

By the way, did you ever 'see' Maharaji in the light?

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Date: Wed, Oct 04, 2000 at 23:15:50 (GMT)
From: Steve Quint
Email: sequint@home.com
To: Everyone
Subject: Revealing The Techniques
Message:
I don't think it is appropriate to be revealing the techniques, either privately or publically.

The reason is simple. Enought carnage and confusion have been spread already by Rawat. I quote from my message of October 2, 23:01:11

'He seems to me to be a minimalist, that is to say that he does teach the truth but in such a slow and cumbersome way as to make it analogous to Chinese water torture.'

I did receive something real when I received the techniques. As I have stated in my postings already, the greatest damage has been caused not by the fact that he has been a true teacher, not by the fact that he has been a false teacher, but that he has combined elements of both in such a way as to cause extreme pain, and even suicide in some poor victims.

Do you guys realize how massively confused and unsettled the situation is right now? I can hardly sleep for the tension in the air about Rawat.

I call for all people with knowledge visualizing Rawat doing the only honorable thing. I wont't say what it is, I'll leave it up to your imaginations. Just think war criminal. If you want more hints, ask.

Due to the extremely unsettled nature of the situation, it is wise not to meddle with the ancient techniques until the air is cleared, and I pray to God that it is very very soon, and either an individual or a committee is selected to deal with this and other issues.

Thank you.

Steve Quint

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Date: Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 13:58:09 (GMT)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Steve Quint
Subject: Revealing The Techniques
Message:
Hey STeve
There is no 'committee' that can straighten this all out for all of us. If it's falling apart and chaotic well that's a good thing, IMO. Yes it's painful to leave a Guru you thought was all powerful and there are mixed feelings. But the main thing is there is nothing to be afraid of.

I think that revealing the techniques here on the website debunks the superstition surroudning the techniques. Because our beliefs abotu the 'knowledge' is what makes us attached to M in that creepy way. Once you examine those beliefs and start to understand what is going on, you're free to meditate or not to meditate, using the techniques for your own purposes rather than as a 'way to connect with M inside' or whatever crap we were fed. And BTW, you are free to examine the good you got out of your involvement with M, that is part of the healing process, IMO.

I don't think there's any way to slow down the chaos of M's world crumbling down. That's the power of the internet, open communication, and democracy at work. Sounds like you're goign through a rough time and I hope you are ok.

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Date: Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 05:08:40 (GMT)
From: CHR
Email: None
To: Steve Quint
Subject: Revealing The Techniques
Message:
Steve, I wouldn't lose too much sleep over it all. Its really just a silly little cult on its last legs. This forum probably keeps it alive for most people more than M and his organisation does. Theres a little book that has just come out of the worlds most famous cults and M doesn't even rate a mention. They do acknoeledge that there were a variety of Eastern based cults that sprung up in the 70s around various gurus.
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Date: Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 10:58:55 (GMT)
From: Steve Quint
Email: sequint@home.com
To: CHR
Subject: Revealing The Techniques
Message:
I think that both the forum and M and his organization are keeping it alive. If it dies right now, how much damage in peoples' lives and in the world at large will remain as a legacy?

Rawat came onto the scene in the west in 1971, shortly after the peace and love dreams of the 60's died or transformed into something else. It was clear to many at least from the 60's that the world needed a savior and unity in truth and justice.

For me, PP was the one who came into my life with power and promises and so I follwed him for most of the next 28 years, putting down in my mind other teachers, influenced mostly by Mahatmas and premies.

A big problem, mentioned in the Justice III thread below, is that the English language was transformed for me by the presentation of knowledge and Rawat. One simple example. Indian words, for example 'Mahatma', were mixed with English ones in everyday speech and in satsangs. Mahatma, I already knew, meant 'great soul', and the Mahatma I first met closehand, Krishnasukanand, was probably the most impressive person I had ever met, and remains so, along with Rawat, to this day (although I have never really spoken to Rawat, only stood close to him in darshan line and attended his talks).

I assumed in my mind, based on the impressions and on the heavy satsangs given in those days, that every other person, from Einstein to Freud to Leonardo da Vinci to Churchill to Van Gogh to anyone else you could imagine dead or alive were pale and insignificant and deluded compared to Rawat and the Mahatmas and that all 'worldly' knowledge was to be ignored.

Mega mega delusion foisted, I believe on me by the whole scene, probably more by the followers that by Rawat himself. However I blame Rawat, even though he may have been young in the early days, for the delusions and carnage set in motion by his followers. My mother reminded me recently that Harry Truman used to say 'The Buck Stops Here'. My mind has to lay the responsibility somewhere, and it is logical to me to blame Rawat. If he was not ready to accept responsibility, he should have stayed at home, concentrated on schoolwork, and left the spreading of knowledge to those, if any, who were qualified to do so.

I'm still dumbfounded by the fact that Rawat became master at the age of 8 1/2. Consider the implications. If someone had come to him with a question about Freud, what would he have said? Possibilities:

1. I don't know about Freud. Please do research and come back to teach me about Freud.
2. He was just another deluded being in this world who did not have knowledge. Please receive and realize this knowledge.
3. Please receive and realize this knowledge.

I've never heard him say anything resembling the first possibility, and the second and third are pretty close to what I have come to expect from Rawat.

Instead of giving the world a new age of light, he gave the techniques of knowlege, a cult denying they were a cult because their leader was the perfect master, lord of the universe, etc., and perpetuated and accelerated the age of darkness to depths never before imagined.

Your dismissal of the whole thing as a silly little cult on its last legs may be a beautiful wish, but for me the damage and darkness perpetuated by Rawat and his followers is profound and profoundly disturbing.

Yes, healing is possible. What about the suicides of cult members? Is Christ going to come and raise these poor departed ones from the dead? What about those who became schizophrenic? It's not easy to heal schizophrenia.

Thank you

Steve Quint

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Date: Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 02:47:38 (GMT)
From: Tonette
Email: None
To: Steve Quint
Subject: Beautifully said nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 19:00:42 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Steve Quint
Subject: Unfortunately, both are true
Message:
Your dismissal of the whole thing as a silly little cult on its last legs may be a beautiful wish, but for me the damage and darkness perpetuated by Rawat and his followers is profound and profoundly disturbing.

Nothing inconsistent there, Steve. Heaven's Gate was a silly little cult too.

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Date: Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 02:58:45 (GMT)
From: Gregg
Email: binduesque@yahoo.com
To: Steve Quint
Subject: Revealing The Techniques
Message:
What, hara-kiri? For a gaijin (non-Japanese)? Please.

As others have stated, there are no sacred techniques. There are some secret teachings in some sects, but GMJ's 4 techniques are not among them. They are in the public domain, to use U.S. copyright law terms.

Relax. God will do fine. Cult leaders will end up where cult leaders end up.

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Date: Wed, Oct 04, 2000 at 23:55:09 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Steve Quint
Subject: I disagree
Message:
Rawat has gotten where he has by pretending that he has some kind of patent on the techniques he reveals and that they won't work without HIM. This us utter hogwash and removing the supposed mystery surrounding the techniques is one way to demystify them. By the way, the techniques are not unique to Maharaji, and are written about, and taught by others.

If people want to do meditation and find those four techniques useful, then fine for them. What they don't need is to get caught up in a personality cult, which Maharaji's cult is, because some kind of mysterious meditation techniques were used as bait.

Good luck with your visualizations.

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Date: Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 00:10:32 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Democracy is an amazing thing
Message:
We all get the chance to say something, and disagree or not. I am with the motion that meditation works and the Techniques are valid.
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Date: Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 03:09:36 (GMT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: Democracy is an amazing thing
Message:
I'm with the motion that it's bullshit. I have discovered nothing new in life as a result of these techniques. I'm certainly not enlightened as a result of them. I'm not fulfilled by them, and they don't particularly make me feel anymore peaceful by practicing them.

But what's the deal with these techniques, Salam? Just what are they supposed to do? It seems to me that their purpose is a little different now than they were some 20 years ago. How did that happen? Christ, not only don't I benefit from practicing these techniques, in spite of M's fucking with my head insisting I do, but I don't even know what I'm supposed to be getting out of them, anymore.

Do you?

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Date: Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 03:26:15 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: Maharaji's hidden surprise for everyone
Message:
What are you supposed to be getting out of them?

I think Maharaji's got all the premies thinking that he's underplaying 'Knowledge' immensely and that they really are on a path towards 'God realization'.

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Date: Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 04:34:45 (GMT)
From: Scott T.
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Maharaji's hidden surprise for everyone
Message:
Jim:

I think there is at least some credibility to the notion that they are representative of four areas of human cognitive capacities, or 'neurocharms.' I'm not sure how representative they are, but it's worth investigating. Surely they don't really fit with the 'God Realization' thing. It's more about humans than God, if it's about anything. (And, of course, it may *not* be about anything at all.)

I think we'd be making an extraordinary leap if we somehow came to grips with what our real limits and capacities are as humans. There are lots of ways that sentient beings *could* be, and the way we are represents only a relatively narrow range. We are, fortunately, a little more daring and clever than the Neanderthal but not nearly as daring or clever, or unlimited, as we believe. We, as a species, fear beauty more than heterosexual men fear homosexuality. I should say that it's not so much beauty that we fear as what inevitably goes along with it: responsibility and a sense of shame.

--Scott

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Date: Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 16:46:32 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Scott T.
Subject: Now it's I who don't follow YOU, Scott,
Message:
I think there is at least some credibility to the notion that they are representative of four areas of human cognitive capacities, or 'neurocharms.'

But why? I don't think that at all myself. I think they're worthless beyond the vaule they have for establishing some mystique about 'inner worlds' and such. Sure, that's all fun but is it real? I don't think so.

I'm not sure how representative they are, but it's worth investigating.

And why do you say that? How about all the various cults and religions that imbue various sounds and mantras with cosmic signficiance? Are they worth investigating? Not to me, they're not. Anymore than I'd want to investigate the power of a catholic rosary. It's all one continuum of superstition to me.

Surely they don't really fit with the 'God Realization' thing. It's more about humans than God, if it's about anything. (And, of course, it may *not* be about anything at all.)

I'll take door number three.

I think we'd be making an extraordinary leap if we somehow came to grips with what our real limits and capacities are as humans. There are lots of ways that sentient beings *could* be, and the way we are represents only a relatively narrow range.

What are you talking about?

We are, fortunately, a little more daring and clever than the Neanderthal but not nearly as daring or clever, or unlimited, as we believe.

Again, what are you talking about?

We, as a species, fear beauty more than heterosexual men fear homosexuality. I should say that it's not so much beauty that we fear as what inevitably goes along with it: responsibility and a sense of shame.

Sorry, Scott, but, at the risk of being rude, I have to ask you again, what are you saying? It SOUNDS kind of nice ... but what is it?

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Date: Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 22:09:07 (GMT)
From: Scott T.
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Now it's I who don't follow YOU, Scott,
Message:
Jim:

Apparently I've escaped you. No biggie. I mean, it doesn't bother me if it doesn't bother you.

--Scott

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Date: Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 13:47:28 (GMT)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Scott T.
Subject: Maharaji's hidden surprise for everyone
Message:
Hey Scott
Just had to say that this lonely little post was beautifully written, IMO.

Hope you are well. Still dancing at Glen Echo?
Helen

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Date: Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 14:00:31 (GMT)
From: Scott T.
Email: None
To: Helen
Subject: Maharaji's hidden surprise for everyone
Message:
Helen:

Funny you should mention Glen Echo. I was thinking of going there tonight, if I can get off my ass. There is also the Lovely Lane Church in Baltimore on Wednesdays, or at least there used to be. Dancing is sure a lot more fun than rowing on an ergometer.

--Scott

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Date: Sat, Oct 07, 2000 at 16:50:04 (GMT)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Scott T.
Subject: Dancing (ot)
Message:
I have been dancing at that church in Baltimore. I still want to go dancing with you sometime. My husband wouldn't be jealous (he doesn't dance) and if you meet a groovy chick we can pretend I am your sister--ha ha!
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Date: Sun, Oct 08, 2000 at 00:46:03 (GMT)
From: Scott T.
Email: None
To: Helen
Subject: Dancing (ot)
Message:
Helen:

Well, at least I'd have someone to dance with at Glen Echo. The ratio of men to women was so abysmal friday that I've decided to avoid it from now on. I'd be willing to give it another try if you'd like. We could wait until Wild Asparagus plays, though the place will be so crowded you could hardly move. Your husband could come and listen, and watch. They're a great band. Bring your daughter too. She'd love it.

I'm going to check out the dance group in Annapolis too. Last time I was there there were some really cute unattached females, and the people are friendlier and less cliqueish than Washington folk. You know how they are...

--Scott

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Date: Sun, Oct 08, 2000 at 03:52:51 (GMT)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Scott T.
Subject: Dancing (ot)
Message:
PLease let me know abotu this Wild Asparagus the next time they play. WOuld love to check it out. Are you saying there are less women than men at the Glen Echo dances? That is wild considering the percentage of single women to men in the DC area.

I think being single int he DC area is the pits. the dating scene here is so damn serious. DC is a very serious place. Gotta work at not taking it so damn seriously.

Have fun dancin
Helen

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Date: Sun, Oct 08, 2000 at 05:05:29 (GMT)
From: Scott T.
Email: None
To: Helen
Subject: Dancing (ot)
Message:
Helen:

Yeah, about 30 more men that women. Either way it creates this really frantic dynamic where you have to 'reserve' dances, etc. Silly. I just left. Dating scene serious? Oh, you mean the oral and written exams you have to pass before asking someone out. Nah, I just go for the endurance test... and the ubiquitous sundance ceremony of course. Can't escape the old eagle talons in the pectorals thing.

Scott 'I left my dating license in my other pants, occifer.' T.

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Date: Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 03:23:23 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: You're just not trying hard enough, Jer (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Wed, Oct 04, 2000 at 23:52:00 (GMT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: Steve Quint
Subject: Revealing The Techniques
Message:
The techniques are nothing to do with Maharaji. Actually, there are no sacred techniques; just variations on a theme of trying to turn your attention inwards. It's laughable to think that some fat fraud from a criminal Indian family thinks he has the monopoly on this.

Concentrating upon the breath is not sacred, neither is the Hatha Yoga (nectar) technique. They are not even from India. Breath meditation was practised in Medieval Britain and there are records of the nectar techique too in old writings of that period.

Ancient Chinese documents from way before Christ talk about looking at light between the eyebrows. Meditation on inner sounds has been around for centuries and is also written about in medieval texts.

Maharaji's techniques aren't even constant. First he says to squeeze your eyeballs and then later he says no. First you stick your thumbs in your ears one way and then later on he changes his mind and says you stick your thumbs in your ears another way.

The meditation on breath sometimes came with or without a mantra in the seventies. These days it's just back to being aware of your breath and yet picturing Maharaji pushing you on a swing and suchlike crap.

Anyone who has ever got into breath mediatation knows that you don't and can't do any such thing since it is the breath which pulls you in and not the other way round. No need for mantras or visualisations.

But the craziest thing is Maharaji's change of the nectar technique when everyone knows that the old nectar tech is a standard Hatha yoga practise. Since Maharaji could never do it, he changed it to sticking your tongue on the roof of your mouth.

Fucking ancient wisdom my arse!

The moron doesn't have a clue as to what he's on about.

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Date: Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 00:01:39 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: Revealing The Techniques
Message:
With all due respect, Dave, I think your post is a little 'self-conflicted'. You argue that there is no 'ancient wisdom' behind the meditation techniques at the same time as you explain that a number of ancient cultures used them. What's your point? Are they ancient, in your view, and just not Maharaji's or are they empty, old superstitions, regardless of who used them?

As far as I'm concerned, they're the latter. Useless, antique curiosities, certainly not 'portals to an inner world' or anything else of any value. Sure they might have soome 'white noise' utility but that's about it.

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Date: Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 00:18:55 (GMT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Revealing The Techniques
Message:
Ancient but not wisdom. Someone found out that you could hear sounds inside if you were patient and listened for long enough. Someone found that by concentrating on their breath they could still their mind, and so on and so forth.

No more ancient wisdom than the peyote eating South American Indians or the African native witch-doctors.

We have a perfect example of that in the master of knowledge who once claimed to be God in human form but then later abandoned the idea and pretended he never said it. Hardly a wise soul.

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Date: Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 00:31:40 (GMT)
From: Daneane
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: Revealing The Techniques
Message:
I think all those who extol wisdom and peace from within via one new age technique or another ought to spend some time working retail.
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Date: Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 13:44:55 (GMT)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Daneane
Subject: Revealing The Techniques
Message:
HA HA Just had to say howdy Daneane, after reading that. Yes, retail as a vehicle to enlightenment. If one can stay cool under those conditions one is truly enlightened.

How ya been? How was the Blue ROdeo journey? I still am enjoying the tapes, thanks again.

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Date: Wed, Oct 04, 2000 at 20:51:18 (GMT)
From: suchabanana
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: POST THE TECHNIQUES NOW - POST THE TECHNIQUES!!!!!
Message:
POST THE TECHNIQUES, now! POST THE TECHNIQUES NOW! POST THE TECHNIQUES NOW!
What gives M. and the cult any more power or attraction to newcomers? The authenticity, mystery and secrecy of the inner experience via techniques. Ex-premie.org and other sites, too, should post several pages dedicated entirely to actually showing the techniques (digital video, photos with no individual's facial identity, CAD program, diagrams, or using a mannequin, etc.) and describing the inner focus for each.

Brainstorm with other people who have practiced these techniques for years, and still practice -- for accuracy. Explain and demo the variations of physically doing the Light and Sound techs. Also just following the breath, versus listening to the sohung (inspiration/expiration), etc. Then post a zillion metatag links to Knowledge, but don't call it M.'s knowledge -- because it isn't -- it belongs to the human race. Don't even mention the dude.

Yeah, this has been the big taboo, huh? But it just feeds into someone's control/power trip, though. I mean, looks like the lineage has been contested by lots of people over the centuries -- and self-realization does some of the techs, Buddhists do the breath, Ching Hai teaches some, many Sikh lineage teachers show the sound tech, hatha yoga books teach the nectar/tongue, and Indian scriptures (and other traditions) spell out some of the techniques, too.

Again, if M. can teach knowledge with a vcr or dvd player, anyone who knows this stuff can. No mystery. It's there to share free. That one website that already does it, though, doesn't explain the focus correctly, I feel. Also, there aren't any digitized video demos of the techs, photos, or diagrams, etc. Speaking personally, I would like to see this done with utter respect for the inner experience and that energy. No clowning around or dissing about the knowledge -- save that 'tude for exposing a packrat. See, that's what kept many of us involved -- the authenticity of our own inner experiences. Right? Display the Knowledge technique pages attractively, with a respectful and informative format.

Above all, don't ever try to charge money for these universal techniques, or for related events, seminars, etc. -- and don't let anyone ever again try to make the inner experience of our life energy and consciousness a personal or organizational monopoly or power trip!

So, I propose this: boldly offer knowledge free to the entire world on the internet: and a whole new revolution has begun -- no group or individual will then be able to monopolize these techniques of going within ourselves ever again. No one can copyright the techs -- after all, the techniques are universal, and there's too much documentation around to show that people have done the techniques for thousands of years.

Bingo! Then, we can feel good about lots of things. It's not that hard; it's not what you think! haha right?!

Revolution for the Love of it -- for our lives, our dignity, our freedom -- and for those who still walk in the cloud of m. and cult delusion, as well as those innocents yet unaffected by the cult. Slavery to gurus is hereby abolished! Offering these techs to the entire human race free on the internet will pull the rug out from under some selfish power trips!

New Beginnings:
And, yes, we can actually do something really good and positive, too. The techs posting eventually evolves into this: gradually heal and don't fret about m. anymore, and just spread the knowledge techniques free all over the internet with gazillions of spiritual, yogic, philosophical, historical, New Age mega metatag word links (select those words that will draw the most hits)! Then establish a positive support group on-line (with translation links) for people everywhere who enjoying practicing - and maybe sharing a bit about their inner experiences. Offer info and on-line contacts/forums for new people with questions. Bingo! Fait accompli! Take a bummer and completely turn it around! Spread the techniques of an inner experience with respect -- and bye bye to all the crapola excess baggage.

Peace and Light to all

suchabanana

PS Sometimes I feel like suchasucker
(one day, when it's safe, I hope to reveal another name)

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Date: Wed, Oct 04, 2000 at 21:20:41 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: suchabanana
Subject: OK, OK
Message:
here they are...
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Date: Wed, Oct 04, 2000 at 22:52:10 (GMT)
From: Bin Liner
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Anatomical Correctness
Message:

Interesting to see the diagram of the nectar technique on your link.

When I got k this was how I was taught by Moni Bi (sp)

She said that you could achieve the correct position over time by prodding the ligament under the tongue every time you brushed your teeth.

She also said that some people cut it, & this was definately not recommended.

I succeeded with this quite quickly. (prodding)

In '93 or '94 I attended a k review with Shitler in Brighton (UK) during which he explained that the tongue only needed to go as far back as the soft palate, where it should rest.

He took the piss out of people who had used the old technique, rather in the manner of some who have posted here. Although he didn't use the word 'snot' he certainly said something like 'how do you imagine you can experience anything by drinking your own nasal drippings' something like that.

Ho HO HO from the audience.

He also mentioned the ligament cutters ; more general merriment.

Now that I'm starting to get my mind back, I remember thinking, 'hold on, thats hardly fair', before supressing the thought as being unworthy in the presence of the master.

What a fool(me)

WHAT A FUCK (him)

Maybe he's an ex himself, he just won't admit it.


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Date: Wed, Oct 04, 2000 at 21:11:48 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: drek@oz.net
To: suchabanana
Subject: They are Here and Now! And use a search engine
Message:
The techniques and the entire process to receive the secret and ancient techniques, same ones taught by Jesus Christ, are here at Ex-Premie.org.

And a copy of the same is also available at Free! Guru Maharaji's Knowledge/Meditation Techniques.

Do an Internet search for Maharaji and you will see somewhere on the list - Free! Guru Maharaji's Knowledge/Meditation Techniques.

Why bother going to www.maharaji.org when you can bypass all the crap and get it all for nothing?

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Date: Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 00:03:29 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: They are Here and Now! And use a search engine
Message:
You sound like a traviling salesman!!

Where are the pics?

By the way could someone correct me, is the WORD pronunnced SO HUM or SO HAN (What a question, I think I need a nolije session). Also do you know is there is some old Indian symbole for the WORD, abouve from that we see for OM.

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Date: Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 03:43:45 (GMT)
From: suchabanana
Email: None
To: Salam, Rog, et al
Subject: so-hung, tech pics, and HACKER ALERT WARNING!!!!!!
Message:
Salam:

Yes, the other 'GM techs. Free' site has no photos. Also, how about some digitized video, so people can click and watch a short demo (10-15 seconds each)? Post the techniques on more sites all over the world; don't even describe them elsewhere as m.'s techniques (or anyone else's) -- he didn't invent them.

The guy posting the inner light tech. asks for a monetary 'donation'. Well, [Bleep] that kind of attitude and anyone who does it ever again!!! Free means 'free', not strings attached, no solicitations for donations, expenses, whatever.

so hung -- it's the sound of inspiration/expiration of the breath (pronounced 'so hung' ; so = in , hung = out); you just follow the breath and listen to the sound as you breathe through the nose, mouth closed. Buddha focussed on the abdomen, the Vedas say focus on the nose itself by the nostrils.

Some yogis teach doing it until you feel no air coming in and out of the nostrils when you breathe (test: use your hand to feel the air from the breath).

Kundalini siddhis do a lot of gnarly huffing and puffing (fire breath)

Most yogis have emphasized the naturalness and just observing, and whenever the mind drifts with thoughts, when you notice, just bring it back to the breath.

Peace,

ATTENTION:
Incidentally, who the heck is also monitoring this website? When I type certain single letters of the alphabet, my home address suddenly appears in the 'from' box, or 'e-mail', or my legal name will suddenly appear in the 'subject' box, along with other personal information. What the heck is going on here? I've shown this to several other people, too. They were freaked to see this stuff happening, too. Something fishy is definitely going on, dudes!

Anyone else out there noticing some little games, deleted text, or encrypted files appearing on their computer hard-drives after lowering your security ratings to post -- when you log off and check your hard-drive files with security software.

Is the forum administrator doing this, or the site's software, or an OUTSIDER mole hacker? Who (and whose minions) would want to penetrate this site and find out who is posting anonymously? Go figure... The personal info that suddenly appears in the boxes without even typing it, is not even part of my email info. I smell a raw-rat!

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Date: Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 17:17:20 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: suchabanana
Subject: so-hung, soaham, so-ham, ... swami ...
Message:
Here's another site you might like to examine, Salam: http://oaks.nvg.org/re4ra1.html

Here's a taster:

QUOTE

Many Sanskrit letters don't have exact counterparts in British English, for
there are nearly twice as many. [See Pa: index]. So the simplified spelling
HAMSA (meaning 'swan' as well) is not to be pronounced as it appears at
first glance to many. But start with 'H'.

The next sound is a Sanskrit vowel
somewhat between 'a' and 'o': The 'a' in HONG is a lot like 'a' as in 'father'
and 'o' as in 'molten'.
The next sound is not exactly 'ng' as in 'song', but 'm' is also written -
both speak of an original Sanskrit sound that is halfway between them. The
intoned 'Om' ends with it. It's also spelled 'Ong' in books by Sir John
Woodruffe. ¤Cf. Gas; Kuo; Saa; Tåg; Spo.


ENDQUOTE

PS. Thanks for posting your 'Journey' recently. I enjoyed reading about your escapades with DLM/EV/The Non-Guru.

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Date: Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 05:07:17 (GMT)
From: Janet of Venice
Email: None
To: suchabanana and everybody
Subject: TECHNIQUES pics, and HACKER ALERT WARNING!!!!!!
Message:
re HACKER ALERT WARNING:
WE ALL NEED TO GET MUCH MORE NET AND WEB SAVVY TO PULL THIS OFF SUCCESSFULLY. Whoever is reading here needs to understand firewalls, privacy techniques, proxy servers for anonymity, 'pinging', not using 'open all nite' modem connections like DSL, cable modem, napster-like ftp access, anything which leaves your backdoor open to hackers . there is software youcan get that sets off an alarm every time any agent taps into your pc to look for or deposit or remove anything. I recommend ZDnet for excellent and fast personal education about this. a program called 'Black Ice' cos to mind but there are others. ZDnet has the all. subsribe to it and use its search engine to read up on what's around. they have free downloads every day.
I am leaving no room for doubt in my mind that Maharaji has hackers pursuing us in every and any way he can urge them to wield their powers. If fakiranand could put a hammer in a reporter's head for a pie in the face, then now in y2k, doubtless there are premie nerds with vicious web/net savvy and the same sociopathic absence of conscience ,morals, empathy or human caring who are relentlessly working to stop us.

the navaho have a method that foils this wisely. when a navajo wishes to preserve the truth to his people, he gathers ten men he trusts and tells them the secret of what he knows, and in turn, each of them tells ten men, and those men tell ten others, until all have learned the secret. there is no written record, only oral, passed along. someone wanting to kill the truth can never hope to find every last person and kill them, so the truth is passed on and kept. with the net, there are many many ways to post from unidentifiable terminals that are meaningless in attempts to trace the user. libraries, net café's, schools...red herrings, false clues, deliberate disinformation, to name a few--and there are mirror sites, chat rooms, sites that don't show up in searches because of either realtime content or intentional non listing by metatag.. remeber--if it can shw up in a SEARCH IT CAN BE FOUND BY MJ'S HACK'S..put on your thinking cap and really ponder what you know or who you know who could school you as to how to outwit these efforts of pursuit.
there is supposedly an internet blacklist, where once your name gets on it, no isp will give you a way onto the net or the web. usually one lands there by spam or abuse. but MJ could conceivably have people working to ID us and to get us put on that list.
face it' this is the end of the innocence.
luckily for us, there is always another way. the internet was deliberately designed that way, just like the navaho tradition.
but dont be naive. dont innocently, blithely, righteously, merrily expose yourself. Remeber who we're dealing with, here, and how he got to where he is. use hack proof terminals that dont point back to you. if you use your home pc,of course you're traceable.
go to ZDnet for openers. read up. get savvy. the longer you last, the more we can do.
remeber the old saying--'just because you're paranoid doesnt mean they're not out to get you!'

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Date: Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 20:51:40 (GMT)
From: JohnT
Email: None
To: Janet of Venice
Subject: Background reading
Message:
There's some useful stuff to read at this 'security for newbies' page. It's based on Linux but the concepts apply generally.
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Date: Thurs, Oct 05, 2000 at 04:50:23 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: drek@oz.net
To: suchabanana
Subject: banana, don't get paranoid - I've been there
Message:
I've got to type this quickly because they are watching me.

But, seriously, what are YOU seeing? Email me the specifics.

The people who run this site are very, very trustworthy and reliable people. They just do not do that kind of stuff. I mean that seriously.

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Date: Wed, Oct 04, 2000 at 15:08:47 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: GM residence
Message:
Is there a picture of gm delapitated house, on this site? If you know please post a link.
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Date: Wed, Oct 04, 2000 at 21:00:55 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: drek@oz.net
To: Salam
Subject: all we've got is a satellite photo
Message:
Satellite image of Malibu Palace

You can also go to terraserver.com and view a slightly higher rez photo of the same. You will need to punch in the Lat-Long and move around to get there and unless you have a fast connection to the Internet you will be dying.

Attention all Los Angelos - We need a picture of the Rez!

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Date: Wed, Oct 04, 2000 at 21:03:19 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: drek@oz.net
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: and a blueprint here at Ex-Premie.org
Message:
Blueprint of Maharaji's dilapidated Malibu hovel
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Date: Wed, Oct 04, 2000 at 23:25:37 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: I think it is time for your moles to get cracking
Message:
and get a picture or a dozen, do not you think. We depend on you.
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