Steven Quint -:- Apple Pamcakes -:- Tues, Oct 10, 2000 at 17:01:06 (GMT)

__ Steve Quint -:- Apple Pamcakes -:- Wed, Oct 11, 2000 at 04:13:50 (GMT)

Salame con queso. -:- December 1998 -:- Tues, Oct 10, 2000 at 16:15:30 (GMT)

__ Salam -:- FA: Can you stop this Idiot from using my name -:- Tues, Oct 10, 2000 at 23:36:48 (GMT)

__ __ Forum Administrator -:- To: Salame -:- Tues, Oct 10, 2000 at 23:56:25 (GMT)

__ __ __ OK -:- Salame is not SALAM. Excuse me! (st) -:- Wed, Oct 11, 2000 at 07:57:14 (GMT)

Cynthia G. -:- Hello Again -:- Tues, Oct 10, 2000 at 16:01:28 (GMT)

__ DeProGram Anand Ji -:- Hello Again -:- Wed, Oct 11, 2000 at 05:07:16 (GMT)

__ Roger eDrek -:- Now, this would be an interesting tape to find -:- Wed, Oct 11, 2000 at 04:20:07 (GMT)

__ __ Cynthia G. -:- Now, this would be an interesting tape to find -:- Wed, Oct 11, 2000 at 13:02:14 (GMT)

__ Roger eDrek -:- The doors are always open to use a M phrase -:- Wed, Oct 11, 2000 at 04:14:37 (GMT)

__ Yves -:- Are you the 'deep and noisy breather' from Ottawa? -:- Tues, Oct 10, 2000 at 21:20:15 (GMT)

__ __ Jim -:- No, that's Cintra (nt) -:- Tues, Oct 10, 2000 at 22:17:12 (GMT)

__ Selene -:- Hello Again -:- Tues, Oct 10, 2000 at 20:23:58 (GMT)

__ __ Cynthia G. -:- You've got it... -:- Tues, Oct 10, 2000 at 21:16:43 (GMT)

__ __ gerry -:- Hello Again -:- Tues, Oct 10, 2000 at 20:49:30 (GMT)

__ __ __ Selene -:- Hello Again -:- Tues, Oct 10, 2000 at 20:51:59 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Katie -:- Hello Again -:- Wed, Oct 11, 2000 at 19:55:04 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- thank you Katie -:- Wed, Oct 11, 2000 at 20:01:56 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Monmot -:- Hello Again -:- Tues, Oct 10, 2000 at 21:00:15 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ gerry -:- Hello Again -:- Tues, Oct 10, 2000 at 20:53:53 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- death and all that stuff -:- Tues, Oct 10, 2000 at 21:11:45 (GMT)

__ Susan -:- Hello Cynthia -:- Tues, Oct 10, 2000 at 17:54:30 (GMT)

__ __ Monmot -:- Welcome Back, Cynthia -:- Tues, Oct 10, 2000 at 18:09:03 (GMT)

__ cq -:- Hello Again -:- Tues, Oct 10, 2000 at 17:50:39 (GMT)

__ __ Cynthia G. -:- Old Documents and stuff -:- Tues, Oct 10, 2000 at 18:40:02 (GMT)

__ __ __ DePro gram Anand Ji -:- Old Documents and stuff -:- Wed, Oct 11, 2000 at 05:10:38 (GMT)

__ __ __ cq -:- Old Docs and chilblains... -:- Tues, Oct 10, 2000 at 18:54:38 (GMT)

__ __ __ Susan -:- I used to have hair too -:- Tues, Oct 10, 2000 at 18:44:13 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Jim -:- No, no. Pet hair tastes completely different -:- Tues, Oct 10, 2000 at 22:45:14 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Lotus Eater -:- I've just unearthed my beragon -:- Tues, Oct 10, 2000 at 20:42:11 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ janet of venice -:- DON'T THROW THAT STUFF OUT! IT'S EVIDENCE! -:- Wed, Oct 11, 2000 at 01:19:36 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Lotus Eater -:- Well, I've started the financial tally -:- Wed, Oct 11, 2000 at 19:19:47 (GMT)

__ Katie -:- Hello Again -:- Tues, Oct 10, 2000 at 17:25:57 (GMT)

__ Joe -:- Hi Cynthia -- great post -- all the best .. -:- Tues, Oct 10, 2000 at 17:22:37 (GMT)

__ __ Cynthia G. -:- Thanks for the Welcome.... -:- Tues, Oct 10, 2000 at 17:45:47 (GMT)

Steven Quint -:- Lord Of The Flyers -:- Tues, Oct 10, 2000 at 14:30:45 (GMT)

__ DeProGarm Anand Ji -:- Lord Fly By Night -:- Wed, Oct 11, 2000 at 05:13:55 (GMT)

__ Steve Quint -:- Correction -:- Tues, Oct 10, 2000 at 15:16:59 (GMT)

__ __ ExTex -:- OUCH!! har har har (nt) -:- Wed, Oct 11, 2000 at 06:59:31 (GMT)

__ __ cq -:- or Lord of the Fly-guys? (nt) -:- Tues, Oct 10, 2000 at 17:52:00 (GMT)

Jean-Michel -:- You know what? M's teaching works! -:- Tues, Oct 10, 2000 at 14:18:24 (GMT)

__ janet of venice -:- meditation on/with cats definitely works -:- Wed, Oct 11, 2000 at 01:29:59 (GMT)

Jennifer -:- To my ex-premie friends-totally ot -:- Tues, Oct 10, 2000 at 13:19:29 (GMT)

__ janet of venice -:- To my ex-premie friends-totally ot -:- Wed, Oct 11, 2000 at 02:49:16 (GMT)

__ __ Jim -:- Janet, why do you call yourself 'Janice' on ELK? -:- Wed, Oct 11, 2000 at 03:01:07 (GMT)

__ __ __ janet of venice -:- i wouldnt post there with a gun put to my head -:- Wed, Oct 11, 2000 at 08:03:49 (GMT)

Salam -:- From The Spanish forum. -:- Mon, Oct 09, 2000 at 17:07:34 (GMT)

__ Q -:- twito ...(Lt) -:- Tues, Oct 10, 2000 at 16:48:52 (GMT)

__ Salamenerd and a boofhead -:- Anda a cagar a los yuyos .Iluminate vos solo. -:- Mon, Oct 09, 2000 at 19:57:49 (GMT)

__ __ SCA -:- Eat Shit. Salame (nt) -:- Tues, Oct 10, 2000 at 16:47:50 (GMT)

__ __ Salamenerd and a boofhead -:- Please enlighten me. -:- Mon, Oct 09, 2000 at 20:20:10 (GMT)

__ __ __ sam -:- the aussie dictionary(On some Topic?) -:- Tues, Oct 10, 2000 at 12:07:52 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Salam -:- I really do not know. -:- Tues, Oct 10, 2000 at 12:47:13 (GMT)

__ __ __ Salam -:- Oh hello, who the hell are you -:- Tues, Oct 10, 2000 at 11:02:57 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ HI -:- He is a demented DEVOTEE, YOU KNOW, -:- Tues, Oct 10, 2000 at 21:36:46 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Salam -:- He is a demented DEVOTEE, YOU KNOW, -:- Wed, Oct 11, 2000 at 15:11:09 (GMT)

Steven Quint -:- A Site To See -:- Mon, Oct 09, 2000 at 15:03:08 (GMT)

__ suchabanana -:- www.lileks.com/institute/gallery/misc/war2.html -:- Tues, Oct 10, 2000 at 17:35:28 (GMT)

__ suchabanana -:- A Site To See -:- Mon, Oct 09, 2000 at 19:52:54 (GMT)

__ __ cq -:- A Site To See -:- Mon, Oct 09, 2000 at 20:01:58 (GMT)

__ TED Farkel -:- Prem is sugar cured,like premium hams...nt -:- Mon, Oct 09, 2000 at 19:32:48 (GMT)

__ Jim -:- ****ROGER! HERE'S A 'WEAK LINK' FOR YOU!**** -:- Mon, Oct 09, 2000 at 18:30:18 (GMT)

__ __ suchabanana -:- How Chef treats those doing Service in the Kitchen -:- Mon, Oct 09, 2000 at 20:03:19 (GMT)

__ cq -:- Priceless! and check out this page too ... -:- Mon, Oct 09, 2000 at 17:34:15 (GMT)

__ __ Jim -:- Yeah, that's pretty funny too (nt) -:- Mon, Oct 09, 2000 at 18:31:32 (GMT)

__ __ __ Steven Quint -:- Yeah, that's pretty funny too (nt) -:- Mon, Oct 09, 2000 at 19:11:38 (GMT)

Steve Quint -:- A Castrato Guru? -:- Mon, Oct 09, 2000 at 14:52:22 (GMT)

__ Jim -:- Come on, Steve, what the hell you talking about? -:- Mon, Oct 09, 2000 at 18:33:57 (GMT)

__ gerry -:- A Fly in the Ointment -:- Mon, Oct 09, 2000 at 15:03:40 (GMT)

__ __ Steven Quint -:- A Fly in the Ointment -:- Tues, Oct 10, 2000 at 13:22:40 (GMT)

__ __ __ Steven Quint -:- A Fly in the Ointment -:- Tues, Oct 10, 2000 at 14:24:50 (GMT)

__ __ Buzz -:- Bbj side of things -:- Mon, Oct 09, 2000 at 18:12:27 (GMT)

__ __ __ la-ex -:- Bbj side of things -:- Mon, Oct 09, 2000 at 20:03:15 (GMT)

__ __ Steve Quint -:- A Fly in the Ointment -:- Mon, Oct 09, 2000 at 15:40:04 (GMT)

janet of venice -:- interpol, FBI and bringing him down -:- Mon, Oct 09, 2000 at 10:32:43 (GMT)

rob areson -:- was I supposed to use a fake name? -:- Mon, Oct 09, 2000 at 03:39:16 (GMT)

__ Way -:- sincerely? -:- Mon, Oct 09, 2000 at 15:18:46 (GMT)

__ __ sam -:- thanks -:- Tues, Oct 10, 2000 at 12:22:22 (GMT)

__ Forum Administrator -:- Fake names are optional, rob. -:- Mon, Oct 09, 2000 at 12:53:04 (GMT)

__ AJW -:- Ignore the riff-raff-rob. -:- Mon, Oct 09, 2000 at 10:22:00 (GMT)

__ __ DeProGram Anand Ji -:- Rob can't take the heat -:- Mon, Oct 09, 2000 at 11:37:48 (GMT)

__ __ __ Jim -:- Hey, there's Rob and then there's rob-a -:- Tues, Oct 10, 2000 at 22:59:33 (GMT)

__ __ __ Jerry -:- Rob can't take the heat -:- Mon, Oct 09, 2000 at 17:36:51 (GMT)

Rev John Hammond-Smyth -:- Roger - here's the missing sermon -:- Mon, Oct 09, 2000 at 01:51:35 (GMT)

__ Roger eDrek -:- Got it! -:- Tues, Oct 10, 2000 at 21:21:02 (GMT)

Steven Quint -:- Satellite Events II -:- Sun, Oct 08, 2000 at 23:21:18 (GMT)

__ Daneane -:- Satellite Events II -:- Mon, Oct 09, 2000 at 03:10:48 (GMT)

__ Jim -:- You still have to take your shoes off? (nt) -:- Mon, Oct 09, 2000 at 00:20:44 (GMT)

__ __ TED Farkel -:- You still have to take your shoes off? Really? -:- Mon, Oct 09, 2000 at 03:15:48 (GMT)

__ __ __ Jim -:- Wait until they send Anne Johnson, Mr. Farkel -:- Mon, Oct 09, 2000 at 04:46:51 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ TED Farkel -:- I stand corrected. 1.50/beer starting this week! -:- Mon, Oct 09, 2000 at 16:35:14 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Jean-Michel -:- May I suggest one thing for your community? -:- Mon, Oct 09, 2000 at 16:53:31 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ TED Farkel -:- Gotcha covered Mr. J-M! -:- Mon, Oct 09, 2000 at 19:43:56 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ One Of The Judges -:- Wait until they send Anne Johnson, Mr. Farkel -:- Mon, Oct 09, 2000 at 14:29:44 (GMT)

First mate -:- m's yacht/effect on premies -:- Sun, Oct 08, 2000 at 22:04:24 (GMT)

__ JohnT -:- moyen le jeu -:- Mon, Oct 09, 2000 at 12:16:39 (GMT)

__ rob_a -:- m's yacht/effect on premies -:- Mon, Oct 09, 2000 at 03:46:26 (GMT)

__ __ Salam -:- Hey boofhead -:- Mon, Oct 09, 2000 at 15:34:44 (GMT)

__ Janet of Venice -:- WHERE DO I GO TO READ ALL ABOUT MONICA??? -:- Mon, Oct 09, 2000 at 01:56:30 (GMT)

__ __ Sir Dave -:- Here you go -:- Mon, Oct 09, 2000 at 02:05:32 (GMT)

__ A question to First Mate -:- re m's yacht/effect on premies -:- Sun, Oct 08, 2000 at 23:49:15 (GMT)

__ __ first mate -:- re m's yacht/effect on premies -:- Mon, Oct 09, 2000 at 02:51:20 (GMT)

__ __ __ A question for First Mate -:- re m's yacht/effect on premies -:- Mon, Oct 09, 2000 at 12:47:22 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Jim -:- If that's all you got, might as well fold -:- Mon, Oct 09, 2000 at 18:38:36 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Bjørn the observant -:- If that's all you got, might as well fold -:- Mon, Oct 09, 2000 at 20:07:08 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Forum Administrator -:- Stop the multi-alias posting, please... -:- Mon, Oct 09, 2000 at 13:39:09 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- Hey Bjorn, do you tell your premie pals -:- Mon, Oct 09, 2000 at 13:45:45 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ A question to gerry -:- Why do you relly lie gerry -:- Mon, Oct 09, 2000 at 14:48:11 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- I beg your pardon, Bjorn, please forgive me. -:- Mon, Oct 09, 2000 at 14:54:09 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Salam -:- I beg your pardon, Bjorn, please forgive me. -:- Mon, Oct 09, 2000 at 15:52:17 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Bjørn the observant -:- I beg your pardon, Salam? -:- Mon, Oct 09, 2000 at 16:14:50 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Salam -:- I beg your pardon, bj? -:- Tues, Oct 10, 2000 at 13:09:55 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- Bjorn, since you're observant... -:- Mon, Oct 09, 2000 at 16:49:00 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jerry -:- You think so, Gerry? -:- Mon, Oct 09, 2000 at 18:06:31 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- This war has been planned for some time now -:- Mon, Oct 09, 2000 at 19:52:58 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Salam -:- Sure thing -:- Tues, Oct 10, 2000 at 13:03:45 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jerry -:- Sure thing -:- Tues, Oct 10, 2000 at 18:12:22 (GMT)

__ __ __ suchabanana -:- 112' Westport=2000 version of M's 1997 108'(actual -:- Mon, Oct 09, 2000 at 05:30:51 (GMT)

__ __ __ X -:- re m's yacht/effect on premies -:- Mon, Oct 09, 2000 at 03:08:40 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Jerry -:- re m's yacht/effect on premies -:- Mon, Oct 09, 2000 at 18:16:41 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ X -:- re m's yacht/effect on premies -:- Wed, Oct 11, 2000 at 01:48:00 (GMT)

__ __ G -:- The evidence of Maharaji owning a yacht -:- Mon, Oct 09, 2000 at 02:37:36 (GMT)

__ __ __ X -:- evidence of a yacht -:- Mon, Oct 09, 2000 at 02:54:57 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ G -:- an investment??? -:- Mon, Oct 09, 2000 at 16:53:07 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ JohnT -:- a definition?? -:- Mon, Oct 09, 2000 at 19:12:40 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Jerry -:- an investment??? -:- Mon, Oct 09, 2000 at 18:20:49 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Oh yeah, just what I need.... -:- Mon, Oct 09, 2000 at 18:27:33 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jerry -:- Oh yeah, just what I need.... -:- Mon, Oct 09, 2000 at 18:34:26 (GMT)

__ __ Jim -:- What? -:- Mon, Oct 09, 2000 at 00:19:30 (GMT)

suchabanana -:- FREE also means: 'Priceless!' -:- Sun, Oct 08, 2000 at 20:42:50 (GMT)

__ Sir Dave -:- Standing on the shoulders of giants -:- Sun, Oct 08, 2000 at 22:50:49 (GMT)

__ __ suchabananer -:- Gulliver's Travels didn't have pollution or nukes -:- Mon, Oct 09, 2000 at 03:09:01 (GMT)

__ __ Gregg -:- Standing on the shoulders of giants and dwarves -:- Mon, Oct 09, 2000 at 00:43:33 (GMT)

__ __ __ Sir Dave -:- Gulliver's Travels has a happy ending -:- Mon, Oct 09, 2000 at 01:09:26 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Jerry -:- Gulliver's Travels has a happy ending -:- Mon, Oct 09, 2000 at 18:27:53 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Gregg -:- Our Travels may have a happy ending -:- Mon, Oct 09, 2000 at 03:11:58 (GMT)

G -:- Rawat tries to rationalize his luxury megayacht? -:- Sun, Oct 08, 2000 at 17:36:36 (GMT)

__ suchabandana -:- That was truly a most Blissful boating discourse! -:- Sun, Oct 08, 2000 at 21:41:02 (GMT)

Steven Quint -:- Satellite Events -:- Sun, Oct 08, 2000 at 12:14:58 (GMT)

suchabanana -:- ALTRUISM - choose LIGHT, or increase the darkness. -:- Sun, Oct 08, 2000 at 10:43:11 (GMT)

__ bill -:- the caliber of the forum -:- Mon, Oct 09, 2000 at 02:37:46 (GMT)

__ __ suchabanana -:- Well, we've all been burned before; some are wary. -:- Mon, Oct 09, 2000 at 03:32:30 (GMT)

__ __ __ Jerry -:- Here's what I think -:- Mon, Oct 09, 2000 at 18:51:07 (GMT)

__ __ __ bill -:- Well, we've all been burned before; some are wary. -:- Mon, Oct 09, 2000 at 03:58:30 (GMT)

__ Salam -:- How clever. -:- Sun, Oct 08, 2000 at 13:46:29 (GMT)

__ Sir Dave -:- ALTRUISM - choose TEA or increase the cocoa -:- Sun, Oct 08, 2000 at 12:13:59 (GMT)

__ __ suchabanana -:- ALTRUISM - choose integrity -:- Sun, Oct 08, 2000 at 21:22:13 (GMT)

Jim -:- I swear Janet puts this stuff up just for us -:- Sun, Oct 08, 2000 at 04:32:34 (GMT)

__ Janet of venice -:- NOT 'JANET' YOU FOO'! PAY ATTENTION! _I'M_ JANET -:- Sun, Oct 08, 2000 at 07:09:27 (GMT)

__ __ AJW -:- Hi Janet -:- Sun, Oct 08, 2000 at 16:37:04 (GMT)

__ Coach -:- It's a setup -:- Sun, Oct 08, 2000 at 05:20:45 (GMT)

__ __ janet of venice -:- the trojan horse? que paso? -:- Sun, Oct 08, 2000 at 07:12:34 (GMT)

__ __ __ Coach -:- the trojan horse? que paso? -:- Sun, Oct 08, 2000 at 13:54:50 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ JohnT -:- the trojan horse? Thanks Coach! -:- Sun, Oct 08, 2000 at 15:28:20 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Coach -:- the trojan horse? Thanks Coach! -:- Sun, Oct 08, 2000 at 15:57:23 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ JohnT -:- it must be... -:- Sun, Oct 08, 2000 at 16:42:38 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Salam -:- neat trick, how did you do that..nt -:- Sun, Oct 08, 2000 at 17:13:33 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ JohnT -:- hand cut html -:- Sun, Oct 08, 2000 at 17:40:24 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Coach -:- or.... -:- Sun, Oct 08, 2000 at 18:39:55 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Salam -:- If you have noticed yesterday -:- Mon, Oct 09, 2000 at 01:20:14 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Salam -:- Ever heared of Spiritual Condoms?..nt -:- Sun, Oct 08, 2000 at 15:39:07 (GMT)

__ __ Jim -:- Imagine spending a little time with her (nt) -:- Sun, Oct 08, 2000 at 05:22:14 (GMT)

__ __ __ Coach -:- That's wierd -:- Sun, Oct 08, 2000 at 05:35:55 (GMT)

__ Jim -:- Don't worry, Ivette, we haven't forgotten you -:- Sun, Oct 08, 2000 at 04:33:47 (GMT)

__ __ Jim -:- Hey, Elani, are you ripping off Ivette?? -:- Sun, Oct 08, 2000 at 04:35:04 (GMT)

__ __ __ Jim -:- Hold on! What's going on here? -:- Sun, Oct 08, 2000 at 04:37:52 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Jim -:- ****PLAGIARISM SCANDAL ROCKS ELK!!!**** -:- Sun, Oct 08, 2000 at 04:55:29 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Bill -:- ****ancient History ROCKS ELK!!!**** -:- Mon, Oct 09, 2000 at 01:44:19 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Coach -:- A trifle harsh, Jim -:- Sun, Oct 08, 2000 at 04:48:23 (GMT)

Date: Tues, Oct 10, 2000 at 17:01:06 (GMT) From: Steven Quint Email: sequint@home.com To: Everyone Subject: Apple Pamcakes Message:

I've been around here for nine days and I'm amazed that I haven't seen one account from a person close to PP about the experience. My theory is that hanging around PP pamfries your brain really quickly.

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Date: Wed, Oct 11, 2000 at 04:13:50 (GMT) From: Steve Quint Email: sequint@home.com To: Everyone Subject: Apple Pamcakes Message:

Be careful what you ask for.

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Date: Tues, Oct 10, 2000 at 16:15:30 (GMT) From: Salame con queso. Email: None To: Everyone Subject: December 1998 Message:

Silvia Irene Grimberg:Happy birthday I wish you all the best I wish I could give you something you would like I hope you accept This heart of mine That you made new So many times http://www.enjoyinglife.org/enjoylife/knowledge.nsf/frame_sets/English_Site_Letters

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Date: Tues, Oct 10, 2000 at 23:36:48 (GMT) From: Salam Email: None To: Salame con queso. Subject: FA: Can you stop this Idiot from using my name Message:

I do not know who it it, but he certainlly is pissing me of.

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Date: Tues, Oct 10, 2000 at 23:56:25 (GMT) From: Forum Administrator Email: None To: Salam Subject: To: Salame Message:

Hi Salame, You are causing confusion because of the similarity between your name and Salam's. Are you aware of this? Are you doing it on purpose? I don't want to delete your threads if it is an innocent mistake/coincidence. But I might do that if you don't either change your alias or tell us a bit more about who you are and where you're coming from. Thanks Forum Administrator

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Date: Wed, Oct 11, 2000 at 07:57:14 (GMT) From: OK Email: None To: Salam Subject: Salame is not SALAM. Excuse me! (st) Message:

St.

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Date: Tues, Oct 10, 2000 at 16:01:28 (GMT) From: Cynthia G. Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Hello Again Message:

Hi Everyone, It's been quite some time since I posted here. I'm very impressed with Ex-Premie.org's response to the 'copyright' fiasco by m and all of his front people (who are a bunch of crooks). There have always been many dummy companies to protect his butt from liability, ownership, and criminal activities. I've read quite a bit of the recent postings and am not really surprised m got himself a big yacht. After all, his interests have always been in himself--whatever he could do to increase his personal pleasure and wealth supplied by premies. I guess nothing about his dishonesty and betrayal surprises me anymore. He's a con man. Yuck!!! Especially not surprising is the secrecy surrounding that big boat. Isn't that a dynamic of any personality cult? I am astonished he is still at it. Truly amazing SOB, isn't he? I am very happy to hear that he's losing a lot of folks here in the U.S. I emailed Visions and told them to take me off of their mailing list for catalogs. (I also told them that they should know they're in a cult.) The email response was 'you are removed.' It felt good to take that little step. I do still have all of my old contraband stuff packed in a box. Evidence should never be destroyed!! I've avoided looking at it because it makes me physically ill to know I took his bait, hook, line and sinker. After reading about the yacht, I remembered back in the late 70's when he came out full force as the lord (Krishna outfit and dancing era) and constantly used boat/ship analogies and parables about 'staying on gmj's boat and 'he' will take you to his world.' Paraphrased: Maharaji's so busy picking up premies out of the water who are jumping ship, he'd say, you must stay on GMJ's ship or you will be lost in the ocean of illusion. Then we'd all go back to our ashrams and homes, with satsang every night using the big boat analogies. Of course, I believed him and rationalized that because he (as I then deeply believed) was lord, deserved any riches I and other premies could provide for him. That was the 'platform' if you will,, that Jesus came as a pauper, m has come as a rich man! So many ate that crap up. I remember distinctly a program he gave, and I think it was in Philadelphia--the late 70's, not sure what year. He had always spoken about himself in the third person, yet this time he did speak in the first person about himself as being lord, everything--a very dramatic final night satsang. I really noticed that, as did everyone else I was with. It's all we spoke about on the way home to CT. It was the only time that I had ever heard him speak directly of his own divinity in the first person. So, he can deny he has a big boat and that he ever called himself lord of the universe, greater than god, everything, but he's a liar. Period. I didn't want to make this post too long, but I want to share that I've learned how much he took away from me, not just physically and emotionally, but spiritually. Even when I didn't practice k, 'spaced out,' I continued to have that indoctrinated belief system of his (which intensified while in the ashram and then when I was around him at DECA) and it takes a lot to recover from it. But I am recovering from his BS and lies and greed, meaness and betrayal. I hope I am welcome here. The ex-premies here have helped me a lot, despite difficulties I've had with my anger. You are the only ones who sincerely understand what it's like to exit m's cult. It's difficult for others to understand how much indoctrination took place and how deeply he injured us. This website and forum seem to be unprecedented, in terms of fighting to expose a cult, and I do admire all of you who have the tenacity to continue to work to get the real truth about m out. I am sincerely impressed. So, that's it for now. I plan to continue to post. I am not using a fake name. I've grown a bit since I was last here, and I felt the need to check in and also put in my 2 cents. Best to you, Cynthia G.

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Date: Wed, Oct 11, 2000 at 05:07:16 (GMT) From: DeProGram Anand Ji Email: not given To: Cynthia G. Subject: Hello Again Message:

aka James Flynn Welcome

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Date: Wed, Oct 11, 2000 at 04:20:07 (GMT) From: Roger eDrek Email: drek@oz.net To: Cynthia G. Subject: Now, this would be an interesting tape to find Message:

I remember distinctly a program he gave, and I think it was in Philadelphia--the late 70's, not sure what year. He had always spoken about himself in the third person, yet this time he did speak in the first person about himself as being lord, everything--a very dramatic final night satsang. I really noticed that, as did everyone else I was with. It's all we spoke about on the way home to CT. It was the only time that I had ever heard him speak directly of his own divinity in the first person. I think I was at that program and I vaguely remember that first person statement. Cynthia, do you or does anyone have a tape of that?

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Date: Wed, Oct 11, 2000 at 13:02:14 (GMT) From: Cynthia G. Email: None To: Roger eDrek Subject: Now, this would be an interesting tape to find Message:

Hi Roger! I've been looking for that particular tape in my 'collection.' It's a program that has always stood out for me because of how he presented himself. I am pretty sure it was a Philly program so I can start there. BTY, I do have a very old tape recording of the boy guru on the Merv Griffin show. So many of my tapes have deteriorated over the many years I've kept them, but I check that one out too. If you already have the video of that, let me know, but his going on to Merv Griffin is just so weird. Thanks for the greeting, Love, Cynthia

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Date: Wed, Oct 11, 2000 at 04:14:37 (GMT) From: Roger eDrek Email: drek@oz.net To: Cynthia G. Subject: The doors are always open to use a M phrase Message:

Cynthia, Nice to hear from you again. I think that we all realize that none of us are are perfect here and most of us have gone funny from time to time. I hope everyone has forgotten just that one, only one time I ever lost it. Welcome back for however long you wish to stay.

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Date: Tues, Oct 10, 2000 at 21:20:15 (GMT) From: Yves Email: None To: Cynthia G. Subject: Are you the 'deep and noisy breather' from Ottawa? Message:

If so, I have a digitalized picture of you, some friends and Jim Heller. (Get it?) Do you care for it?

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Date: Tues, Oct 10, 2000 at 22:17:12 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: Yves Subject: No, that's Cintra (nt) Message:

Who I hear isn't well. Wish her the best.

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Date: Tues, Oct 10, 2000 at 20:23:58 (GMT) From: Selene Email: None To: Cynthia G. Subject: Hello Again Message:

Hi to the sanest of us all!! Just leave me alone.

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Date: Tues, Oct 10, 2000 at 21:16:43 (GMT) From: Cynthia G. Email: None To: Selene Subject: You've got it... Message:

...we can keep our distance here, Cynthia G.

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Date: Tues, Oct 10, 2000 at 20:49:30 (GMT) From: gerry Email: gkl1@techline.com To: Selene Subject: Hello Again Message:

Hey Selene, How are ya? Dittos from me to Cynthia. (Please note new address)

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Date: Tues, Oct 10, 2000 at 20:51:59 (GMT) From: Selene Email: None To: gerry Subject: Hello Again Message:

Hi Gerry, I'm doing ok. Just returned from Massachusettes. My mom passed away last week. Thanks for the new email. and the support :)

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Date: Wed, Oct 11, 2000 at 19:55:04 (GMT) From: Katie Email: None To: Selene Subject: Hello Again Message:

Selene, I'm very sorry to hear about your mom. I know it probably IS a relief in some ways, but I know from experience that it can still hurt a lot too. Also, it's very hard and somewhat scary to lose both parents at a relatively young age. I hope you are all right. Lots of love, as always, Katie P.S. My foot and leg are still in this stupid cast, so I'm not making it to the computer as much as I could (and also have a TON of work e-mail/phone calls to deal with every day), but I'll be in touch. Love you!

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Date: Wed, Oct 11, 2000 at 20:01:56 (GMT) From: Selene Email: None To: Katie Subject: thank you Katie Message:

I'm not having reliable email lately. I'm still using work accounts and a router keeps going down. And seeing as how they have let me work at home I am SOL at present as campus isn't talking to me. Sorry about your foot! I have a lot of things going on emotionally. I'll definitely be in touch when I can stomach going into the cubicle in order to email. Not today. All I've really done today is surf the net. And worst of all I made my hair orange. Just kidding. I joke around when things hurt. But I did make my hair a weird red color by mistake. But no I'm NOT the girl in the picture :)

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Date: Tues, Oct 10, 2000 at 21:00:15 (GMT) From: Monmot Email: None To: Selene Subject: Hello Again Message:

Selene: My condolences to you. But as Gerry said, there's probably some relief also. Death is weird. M

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Date: Tues, Oct 10, 2000 at 20:53:53 (GMT) From: gerry Email: None To: Selene Subject: Hello Again Message:

Sad, but I bet you also experienced a measure of relief.

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Date: Tues, Oct 10, 2000 at 21:11:45 (GMT) From: Selene Email: None To: gerry and Monmot Subject: death and all that stuff Message:

Yes I do feel relieved and exhausted. And... so many memories, stuff just comes up and goes away so fast all the time. Thanks .. I'll write more in personal email. Love and appreciation, Selene

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Date: Tues, Oct 10, 2000 at 17:54:30 (GMT) From: Susan Email: None To: Cynthia G. Subject: Hello Cynthia Message:

That was a nice post. Just wanted to say hi.

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Date: Tues, Oct 10, 2000 at 18:09:03 (GMT) From: Monmot Email: None To: Susan Subject: Welcome Back, Cynthia Message:

Hi Cynthia: Enjoyed your post. Glad to see you back. M

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Date: Tues, Oct 10, 2000 at 17:50:39 (GMT) From: cq Email: None To: Cynthia G. Subject: Hello Again Message:

Hi there again, Cynthia. Good to see you posting again. You mention your'old contraband stuff', which I guess is literature about the Maha. Do you by any chance have any begging letters from Elan Vital, - especially ones that were for global distribution? If so they could be very useful in my current communications with the UK Charity Commission. Maybe it's a lot to ask for you to open that box just yet, but whenever you feel ready ...! Best wishes, Chris P.S. You're not the same Cynthia G who once wrote a book about the Tarot, are you? (long shot, but who knows?)

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Date: Tues, Oct 10, 2000 at 18:40:02 (GMT) From: Cynthia G. Email: None To: cq Subject: Old Documents and stuff Message:

Hi cq, No, I didn't write the Tarot book. I know that I don't have any money begging letters. I do remember seeing them, though. I have mostly a lot of old pictures, magazines, and other stuff I've kept through the years. I really should look through the pix again, because I know I have some unofficial photos of back stage shots, taken by premies without permission, i.e., not copyrighted!! I don't have a scanner, though, so give me some time, and I'll take a peek into that box and see what's there. (I have a couple of strands of his hair from the DECA era) No roots for DNA, just cut hair--maybe there are traces of, hmmmm, drugs in them??? Anyone know anything about testing hair for drugs and how long they would remain in a hair cutting?? Bye, Cynthia G.

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Date: Wed, Oct 11, 2000 at 05:10:38 (GMT) From: DePro gram Anand Ji Email: not given To: Cynthia G. Subject: Old Documents and stuff Message:

drugs can be detected in hair for several months after use.

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Date: Tues, Oct 10, 2000 at 18:54:38 (GMT) From: cq Email: None To: Cynthia G. Subject: Old Docs and chilblains... Message:

Thanks, Cynth Don't know about hair clippings testing for drugs, but I bet there's an interesting story about how (and why) they were distributed in the first place! I used to have a little wooden box of Rajneesh's hair, but I chucked it as far as I could throw it about ten years ago. Wonder what these guru characters get out of such a ridiculous practice? Anything to keep the disciples doe-eyed and dozy, I guess. Those pics sound interesting, and ... if I had a scanner ... I'd scan 'em in the mornin' ... I'd scan 'em in the evening ... all over this CUT. NEXT!

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Date: Tues, Oct 10, 2000 at 18:44:13 (GMT) From: Susan Email: None To: Cynthia G. Subject: I used to have hair too Message:

Isn't that creepy? For all I know the hair I had was off some pet of his and someone thought it would be cool to send it out to the premies as a sort of prasad. It begs the question what other holy relic body cast offs others might be saving. Toenail clippings? Any toilet retrievals? Would that be a cool souvenier of the Lord?

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Date: Tues, Oct 10, 2000 at 22:45:14 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: Susan Subject: No, no. Pet hair tastes completely different Message:

Pet hair has a more bitter flavour from the kinds of shampoo, defleeing powder and shit that gets used over time. Also, if it's been licked by other pets, the residual saliva has a very unique flavour. Rawat's hair, on the other hand, would be particularly oily on the tongue.

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Date: Tues, Oct 10, 2000 at 20:42:11 (GMT) From: Lotus Eater Email: None To: Susan Subject: I've just unearthed my beragon Message:

What to do with it? I bought it with my spending money at Copenhagen, it's rather well made actually. The only idea so far is to install it in the firepit by the creek and leave it there until the next fire! Lord, I'm a bit stuck for an inventive idea. Let alone what to do with all the videos, don't mind the old magazines, but hate the videos. We are doing a bit of a clean out, and went through some old framed pictures, from behind one of them came a picture of HIS PUDGY FEET PEEPING OUT FROM THE KRISHNA COSTUME!!!! EEEKKK!!!

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Date: Wed, Oct 11, 2000 at 01:19:36 (GMT) From: janet of venice Email: None To: Lotus Eater Subject: DON'T THROW THAT STUFF OUT! IT'S EVIDENCE! Message:

I still have my barogan--a see thru plexiglass/lexan one from amherst. i just like the minimalism of it. i never use it for anything. I too have a case full of tapes, old magazines, photos and text. maybe we should form some kind of safe deposit box pool where all these relics can be secured for evidence, to ensure that some EV operative doesnt come looking to destroy or reclaim them. they will be valuable at trial. i never owned any videos. too poor to afford em. lets all inventory our attics and see what we have.

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Date: Wed, Oct 11, 2000 at 19:19:47 (GMT) From: Lotus Eater Email: None To: janet of venice Subject: Well, I've started the financial tally Message:

I bagged up the videos yesterday and got them out of the shelves, and, there were over 60 of them. Add to that the ones given away or borrowed, add all the tapes and the odd booklet, plus a clothbound coffee table book of pictures and I reckon the total monies spent on visions products is about $2000aus. I was a bit relieved actually, spread it out over 27 years and it doesn't seem so bad. Of course, that doesn't include registration fees for events and it doesn't include the monthly donation to EV or the one off donations, or the local community donations. I have found myself remembering frequently a remark Maharaji made once, and I paraphrase: 'there should be a limit on how much of a fool they can make out of you'. He was talking about politicians in case you were wondering!

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Date: Tues, Oct 10, 2000 at 17:25:57 (GMT) From: Katie Email: None To: Cynthia G. Subject: Hello Again Message:

Hi Cynthia - Thanks for your post - I'm glad to see you here. (Hope we are still friends!) Love, Katie

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Date: Tues, Oct 10, 2000 at 17:22:37 (GMT) From: Joe Email: None To: Cynthia G. Subject: Hi Cynthia -- great post -- all the best .. Message:

So glad to see you posting so powerfully, and clearly. It's great to hear what you have to say and that you are doing so well. All the best to you. Joe

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Date: Tues, Oct 10, 2000 at 17:45:47 (GMT) From: Cynthia G. Email: None To: Joe and Katie Subject: Thanks for the Welcome.... Message:

Hi Joe and Katie, I hope you're both doing well. Katie, of course we're still friends. Bye for now, Cynthia G.

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Date: Tues, Oct 10, 2000 at 14:30:45 (GMT) From: Steven Quint Email: sequint@home.com To: Everyone Subject: Lord Of The Flyers Message:

PP has boasted so much about his abilities as a pilot, I thought I'd bless him with a new nickname.

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Date: Wed, Oct 11, 2000 at 05:13:55 (GMT) From: DeProGarm Anand Ji Email: sharkdc@aol.com To: Steven Quint Subject: Lord Fly By Night Message:

nt

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Date: Tues, Oct 10, 2000 at 15:16:59 (GMT) From: Steve Quint Email: sequint@home.com To: Steven Quint Subject: Correction Message:

Lord Of The Flys

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Date: Wed, Oct 11, 2000 at 06:59:31 (GMT) From: ExTex Email: None To: Steve Quint Subject: OUCH!! har har har (nt) Message:

nt

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Date: Tues, Oct 10, 2000 at 17:52:00 (GMT) From: cq Email: None To: Steve Quint Subject: or Lord of the Fly-guys? (nt) Message:

bzzzzzzzzzzzz

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Date: Tues, Oct 10, 2000 at 14:18:24 (GMT) From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Everyone Subject: You know what? M's teaching works! Message:

I've just realized that Bjorn, shp etc are mere incarnations of mind. Don't acknowledge them, don't talk to them, and they'll disappear. I don't talk to them, they don't bother me. Heeeeeeelp. I'm in my mind again now .....aaarrrrgggg!!!! Straight back to meditation on my dogs and cats.

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Date: Wed, Oct 11, 2000 at 01:29:59 (GMT) From: janet of venice Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: meditation on/with cats definitely works Message:

especially effective, lazing in a warm bed, i the afternoon, after a good meal, with the sea breeze wafting in. i recommend full contact and eyes closed. if you can collect multiple cats, so much the better.

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Date: Tues, Oct 10, 2000 at 13:19:29 (GMT) From: Jennifer Email: None To: Everyone Subject: To my ex-premie friends-totally ot Message:

Hi, all, I just got a new computer and of course I have lost all of your e-mail addresses when the old one died, may she rest in peace. If you want me to have your e-mail address, drop me a line so I can put you into my new address book. I'm at the same address as before, or you can use my alternate address on my Journey-garfarboleets@hotmail.com (Joe, I especially need yours so I don't miss you when you are here.) Have a great day everyone, Jennifer with a poor memory and a new PC

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Date: Wed, Oct 11, 2000 at 02:49:16 (GMT) From: janet of venice Email: None To: Jennifer Subject: To my ex-premie friends-totally ot Message:

im new and i 'm just getting to know everyone, but you can have mine. check out my journeys or my post on the GWWL to compare notes. maybe we knew each other or crossed lives somewhere. since you have hotmail, we can also talk on microsoft instant messenger, but it'll only work when you're in your mailbox and i'm in my messaging names. email is Jai_Choix@webtv.net MSN instant messenger names are: flawgenius@webtv.net jai-choix@webtv.net

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Date: Wed, Oct 11, 2000 at 03:01:07 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: janet of venice Subject: Janet, why do you call yourself 'Janice' on ELK? Message:

Sorry, Just fucking around

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Date: Wed, Oct 11, 2000 at 08:03:49 (GMT) From: janet of venice Email: None To: Jim Subject: i wouldnt post there with a gun put to my head Message:

x

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Date: Mon, Oct 09, 2000 at 17:07:34 (GMT) From: Salam Email: None To: Everyone Subject: From The Spanish forum. Message:

I read this on the Spanish forum: Autor: Salame no te das cuenta Email: Ninguno Para: Todos Tema: que este foro tiene 2 o 3 participantes en español Mensaje: y necesitan ayuda del foro INGLES (PARECE SER UNO QUE TOMA DIFERENTES NOMBRES ,PORQUE A ZEN HASTA LE CAMBIO EL SEXO) . WHY? isn't there spanish people freak and crazy with M.? Porqué no viene nadie a debatir en español , que nesecitan ayuda del foro ingles ,¿será que solo los ingleses y yanquis se quedaron en la prehistoria del BOLIE SRI SATGURUDEV MAHARAJI JEI? ¿Acaso TIENE mansiones M. en españa? ¿Algún bulo? ¿Algo en españa que pueda ser criticado? ¿ALGUIEN PUEDE TENER LA CONSIDERACIÓN DE CONESTARME? ¿O es que este foro es para MONOLOGOS SOLAMENTE? Saludos andres. Mi armadura es la FE , mi espada el conocimento y peleo mientras recuerdo las palabras del MAESTRO.Hasta ahora nada pudo vencerme y hacerme dejar de proteger el CORAZON. Which can translate very roughly to: Author: Salame you don't realize Email: None to: All Subject: that this forum has 2 or 3 participants in Spanish Message: and they need help of the ENGLISH forum (it SEEMS to BE ONE THAT TAKES DIFFERENT NAMES, BECAUSE TO ZEN UNTIL I CHANGE HIs SEX). WHY? isn't there Spanish people freak and crazy with M.? What is the reason that nobody comes to debate in Spanish that need help of the English forum? Will it be that only the Englishmen and the Yankees remain knowing in the history of the BOLIE SRI SATGURUDEV MAHARAJI JEI? Does he/she maybe HAVE mansions M. in españa? Some false report? Something in Spain that can be criticized? CAN SOMEBODY HAVE THE CONSIDERATION to answer me? Or is it that this forum is ONLY for MONOLOGUES? Greetings andres. My armor is the FAITH, my sword the KNOWLEDGE and I fight while I remember the TEACHER'S words. up to now nothing could conquer me and to make me stop from protecting the HEART. It looks like this person starts with my name for some reason, ask the Englishmen and the Yankiees (nothing about Aussies) for help to dish out some sirty washing about gm then reverts back to talk to Andres and singing the glories of Knowledge and the TEACHER. Now I know am confused, so can anyone tell me what is going on? Maybe my translation is back to front. Anyone here for a caffee espresso and a Spanish chat? Please enlighten me. Also I want to show my appreciation to shp for sticking to my discription of him as being a total nerd and a boofhead, and we should not forget to tell EV to shove it up their nose. Gracias amigos Salame ( El salchichón )

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Date: Tues, Oct 10, 2000 at 16:48:52 (GMT) From: Q Email: None To: Salam Subject: twito ...(Lt) Message:

(not Latin - little text) grandisimo

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Date: Mon, Oct 09, 2000 at 19:57:49 (GMT) From: Salamenerd and a boofhead Email: None To: Salam Subject: Anda a cagar a los yuyos .Iluminate vos solo. Message:

____________________ ____________________) 00 LOL

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Date: Tues, Oct 10, 2000 at 16:47:50 (GMT) From: SCA Email: None To: Salam e Irene Subject: Eat Shit. Salame (nt) Message:

nt.

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Date: Mon, Oct 09, 2000 at 20:20:10 (GMT) From: Salamenerd and a boofhead Email: None To: Salam Subject: Please enlighten me. Message:

LOL

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Date: Tues, Oct 10, 2000 at 12:07:52 (GMT) From: sam Email: None To: Salamenerd and a boofhead Subject: the aussie dictionary(On some Topic?) Message:

'BOOFHEAD' is listed in the oz dictionary- I've been told. Salem, is someone calling you a boofhead, or are u abusing yourself?

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Date: Tues, Oct 10, 2000 at 12:47:13 (GMT) From: Salam Email: None To: sam Subject: I really do not know. Message:

Strange things have been happenning to me lately. Could be that Greasy has control of my soul.

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Date: Tues, Oct 10, 2000 at 11:02:57 (GMT) From: Salam Email: None To: Salamenerd and a boofhead Subject: Oh hello, who the hell are you Message:

shoo, shoo, back, back in your hole. go, go, scoot. Sorry people, I do not know where he came from.

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Date: Tues, Oct 10, 2000 at 21:36:46 (GMT) From: HI Email: None To: Salam Subject: He is a demented DEVOTEE, YOU KNOW, Message:

just one more....hahahahaha. Poor people!!

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Date: Wed, Oct 11, 2000 at 15:11:09 (GMT) From: Salam Email: None To: HI Subject: He is a demented DEVOTEE, YOU KNOW, Message:

Are you who I think you are, the one with the picture?

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Date: Mon, Oct 09, 2000 at 15:03:08 (GMT) From: Steven Quint Email: sequint@home.com To: Everyone Subject: A Site To See Message:

Check out http://www.lileks.com/institute/gallery/ads/prem.html Puleeeze

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Date: Tues, Oct 10, 2000 at 17:35:28 (GMT) From: suchabanana Email: None To: Steven Quint Subject: www.lileks.com/institute/gallery/misc/war2.html Message:

metaphor: Chef's 'Specialty of the House' How the Chef treats those doing Service in the Kitchen: http://www.lileks.com/institute/gallery/misc/war2.html

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Date: Mon, Oct 09, 2000 at 19:52:54 (GMT) From: suchabanana Email: None To: Steven Quint Subject: A Site To See Message:

http://www.do-not-zzz.com/

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Date: Mon, Oct 09, 2000 at 20:01:58 (GMT) From: cq Email: None To: suchabanana Subject: A Site To See Message:

Great use of graphics there, Swami ji though seeing an ad for Zen on the internet is like ... seeing an ad for Zen on the internet. Incongruously excrutible

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Date: Mon, Oct 09, 2000 at 19:32:48 (GMT) From: TED Farkel Email: None To: Steven Quint Subject: Prem is sugar cured,like premium hams...nt Message:

nt

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Date: Mon, Oct 09, 2000 at 18:30:18 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: Steven Quint Subject: ****ROGER! HERE'S A 'WEAK LINK' FOR YOU!**** Message:

-- no pun intended. That's hilarious, Steve. Here's the copy, but the picture's a must: 'Like Swift's Ham, Prem is . . . meat. Key selling point in this ad: 'no spices are added, no heavy seasonings.' Don't worry - your palate will not be shocked by spices. Did anyone ever wake up, sniff the air, and think: boy, I hope that's PREM I smell.'

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Date: Mon, Oct 09, 2000 at 20:03:19 (GMT) From: suchabanana Email: None To: Jim Subject: How Chef treats those doing Service in the Kitchen Message:

Metaphorical allusion: http://www.lileks.com/institute/gallery/misc/war2.html Peace,

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Date: Mon, Oct 09, 2000 at 17:34:15 (GMT) From: cq Email: None To: Steven Quint Subject: Priceless! and check out this page too ... Message:

this one here (but prepare to bust a gut laughing!)

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Date: Mon, Oct 09, 2000 at 18:31:32 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: cq Subject: Yeah, that's pretty funny too (nt) Message:

hhhh

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Date: Mon, Oct 09, 2000 at 19:11:38 (GMT) From: Steven Quint Email: sequint@home.com To: Jim Subject: Yeah, that's pretty funny too (nt) Message:

That whole friggin' website is great. May the laughs never end. Love Steve

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Date: Mon, Oct 09, 2000 at 14:52:22 (GMT) From: Steve Quint Email: sequint@home.com To: Everyone Subject: A Castrato Guru? Message:

If according to the thread of Oct. 4 entitled 'Fat Rawat's Fat', Shri Hans did indeed castrate Prem at a young age, did Shri Hans really want or intend Prem to be guru after him?

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Date: Mon, Oct 09, 2000 at 18:33:57 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: Steve Quint Subject: Come on, Steve, what the hell you talking about? Message:

Don't be ridiculous. You know, every once in a while some premie complains about all the 'unfounded' rumours they read here. Well that's not even one of those! It was a lame joke someone came up with and now what? You're taking it seriously? Please!

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Date: Mon, Oct 09, 2000 at 15:03:40 (GMT) From: gerry Email: None To: Steve Quint Subject: A Fly in the Ointment Message:

Just when your heart has it all figured out, mister mind creeps in with these doubts. did Shri Hans really want or intend Prem to be guru after him? This is the question, isn't it? In fact, the whole 'Unified FatRat Theory' hangs on this slender thread, does it not? I think we can well put this one to bed, Steve. Verily, Shri Hans wanted little Sant Ji to succeed him. So do you think he was castrated at birth?

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Date: Tues, Oct 10, 2000 at 13:22:40 (GMT) From: Steven Quint Email: sequint@home.com To: gerry Subject: A Fly in the Ointment Message:

Possibilities: 1. Just like PP used to sing the praises of Daya's voice a lot, Shri Hans liked soprano singers and wanted a daughter but failing to get one, decided to do his best. Love of soprano singing is in the genes. 2. Shri Hans had two wives and possibly other lovers. Having three sons already, he may have wanted to breed a eunuch for his harem. I think all great thinkers love economy and if he had lived long enough, it would have saved him one salary. 3. This one is serious and I'm getting tired of being serious. Steve

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Date: Tues, Oct 10, 2000 at 14:24:50 (GMT) From: Steven Quint Email: sequint@home.com To: Steven Quint Subject: A Fly in the Ointment Message:

I'm going to get serious for a moment and say that I feel a lot of love for Shri Hans and feel badly that he had to live with such a bozo family.

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Date: Mon, Oct 09, 2000 at 18:12:27 (GMT) From: Buzz Email: None To: gerry Subject: Bbj side of things Message:

according to the resident Baiji in Bbj's ashram in England, Shri Hans gave Bbj his power and rawat was pushed forward as satguru by Charanand and mahatma Sampurananadaji.The fact that the whole family went a long with it seems to imply that they thought rawat was the cuter of the two,certainly in fooling everyone at least. I've already emailed Prem Nagar regarding a lot of questions and await a reply. Loaf has ahad an interesting reply from them, I don't know if he would like to share it on here? Regards Buzz

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Date: Mon, Oct 09, 2000 at 20:03:15 (GMT) From: la-ex Email: None To: Buzz Subject: Bbj side of things Message:

Hey Buzz- Please share what you know;I think it would be great for some part of this site.Also,whatever loaf knows would be appreciated as well... la-ex

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Date: Mon, Oct 09, 2000 at 15:40:04 (GMT) From: Steve Quint Email: sequint@home.com To: gerry Subject: A Fly in the Ointment Message:

Can I help it if I was born with a mind that wants to understand everything? Steve

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Date: Mon, Oct 09, 2000 at 10:32:43 (GMT) From: janet of venice Email: None To: Everyone Subject: interpol, FBI and bringing him down Message:

tonight i sent the url's of some of the most damning info i've seen , to the email contact on the site for the tv show America's Most Wanted. its at http://www.amw.com supposing we take the most damning excerpts we have on him--the yacht, the DECA moneylaundering, fakiranand, jagdeo, item by item, and keep bringing it to their attention? they go after global criminals. they have the contacts to keep the heat on. the more they hear and see, the bigger it will get. cut copy and paste whatever riles you the deepest and tel tham about it. they have caught smaller cons thatn him. he'll be the moby dick of all time.

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Date: Mon, Oct 09, 2000 at 03:39:16 (GMT) From: rob areson Email: rob_areson@hotmail.com To: Everyone Subject: was I supposed to use a fake name? Message:

hey, what's up everyone? was I supposed to use a fake name here or what? I just came here to talk, not attack anyone or be attacked. It seems I am unwelcome here so I'll check y'all later, maybe you will be feeling a little more 'lax by then. Oh, and yea, I have studied this site, in and out over a year ago, had I really not experienced God, I'm sure I would have jumped in and joined you. I would like to answer all your questions but I really don't have time for disrespect and impoliteness. If anyone really wants to talk, you can e-mail me at rob_areson@hotmail.com, or robert_areson@hotmail.com or robbyfresh@hotmail.com, but please don't write to dis me and waste my time, if you learned anything from M, you should know that we don't have time, time has us. so, thanks for the laughs, I really did get a kick out of the fact that many people think I am someone other than who I say I am, but who gives a fuck, right? sincerely, rob areson

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Date: Mon, Oct 09, 2000 at 15:18:46 (GMT) From: Way Email: None To: rob areson Subject: sincerely? Message:

rob areson, I haven't read your posts below, so I don't know what difficulties you experienced. But your post in this thread, which is supposedly about using a fake name, is quite combative. You really shouldn't have signed off 'sincerely' (unless you meant it to be just one more ironic jab). You ask for people to treat you with respect, yet your post is full of snide and condescending insults: exes are not relaxed, exes are amusing and good for laughs, exes waste their precious time on earth because they didn't learn an important message from the Master, which you did learn because you have experienced God. I think there are plenty of people here who are willing to intelligently and politely discuss Mr. Rawat and Knowledge and life with anyone who wishes to post here, including current premies. It is true that there are some exes who are prone to expressing, shall we say, less than polite viewpoints, but a truly sincere person can manipulate around that without much trouble, I think. The problem can be avoided if you yourself avoid barely veiled insults and any claims of God-realization when you post at the ex-premie website. By doing so, you are quite simply asking for it! Since you are supposedly a sincere student of self-discovery, I suggest you take a look at your post and figure out if it is sincerely and effectively asking for a polite discussion. I don't think so. However, your post does bring up one point that is worthy of debate. So I shall propose the topic. You wrote: 'if you learned anything from M, you should know...' That poses the question: 'Is Rawat a Master from whom the student may learn valuable life lessons and experiences? And are the lessons learned from following Rawat unique and not otherwise available from merely living one's life to its conclusion?' Your example, for instance, about 'we don't have time, time has us' - is that an understanding about human life that is unqiue to Rawat and his premies? To present my viewpoint, I followed Rawat for many years and I do not now believe that I learned anything that I didn't already pretty much know when I first became an aspirant. I was already meditating at that time and I knew that there was something that my 'heart' was seeking to feel complete. Everybody feels this and everyone must learn how to live to be a whole person. Whatever they learn they have to learn the hard way, by living the lessons. No guru has the answers. Gurus only have a way to be dependent upon the guru. Eventually the guru-devoted human being must learn a valuable lesson: that he must find the way to his own highest potential within himself, independent on the guru. I did gain understandings about life and myself during the years that I was a premie. But there is nothing that I now understand about life and myself that I could not have learned in non-premie ways. My heart yearns for the manifestation of the unity of life, just as it always has. The only unique thing I now know for sure is that I have no further use for Mr. Rawat, or any of the other little cults that assuredly have no monopoly on love.

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Date: Tues, Oct 10, 2000 at 12:22:22 (GMT) From: sam Email: None To: Way Subject: thanks Message:

for that. You summed it up so well!

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Date: Mon, Oct 09, 2000 at 12:53:04 (GMT) From: Forum Administrator Email: None To: rob areson Subject: Fake names are optional, rob. Message:

The problem is, many here thought you were using a fake name, since it bears a remarkable similarity to someone's name already posting here - it looked like a deliberate corruption of that name. So is 'rob areson' your real name? And can you confirm you have not posted here as 'Shroomananda' - or under any other name? It would help everybody, and probably help you too, to make this clarification, because not only your name appeared suspicious, but also the content of your first bore an extraordinary resemblance to the kinds of post Shroomananda/Mike Fronke used to make each time he reappeared under a new identity - by launching a familiar attack based on the same weary theme, namely that: - you (the ex-premies) shouldn't be complaining - you exes didn't have the experience - you never made the effort - if you had made the effort you'd have experienced the 'Creator' - I made the effort and had the experience. Perhaps there has been a case of mistaken identity, rob - but even so, you will have to expect the kind of reponses ALL premies will receive here whenever they adopt an omniscient perspective to make presumptive generalisations about the ex-premies. (Perhaps you should introduce yourself: how long have you been a premie, where do you live etc.) Forum Administrator

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Date: Mon, Oct 09, 2000 at 10:22:00 (GMT) From: AJW Email: None To: rob areson Subject: Ignore the riff-raff-rob. Message:

Hi Rob, What happened? Was somebody rude? Don't let them put you off. Places with a general free speech policy often attract loudmouthed riff-raff (such as myself for example). You stand up for your beliefs Rob. And if you came here looking for reasoned, open-minded discussion, don't give up. Blimey, I'll start. Do you believe there is such a thing as 'Perfect Master'? Anth the chatty demon.

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Date: Mon, Oct 09, 2000 at 11:37:48 (GMT) From: DeProGram Anand Ji Email: not given To: AJW Subject: Rob can't take the heat Message:

So he is running away from the kitchen. Rob knows he hasn't got a leg to stand on and that we know his claims of experiencing God are BS. You can run but you can't hide from the Truth Rob because ironically the Truth about M is within you, wake up and smell the coffee. We know you better than you know yourself.

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Date: Tues, Oct 10, 2000 at 22:59:33 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: DeProGram Anand Ji Subject: Hey, there's Rob and then there's rob-a Message:

rob-a is the weenie.

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Date: Mon, Oct 09, 2000 at 17:36:51 (GMT) From: Jerry Email: None To: DeProGram Anand Ji Subject: Rob can't take the heat Message:

Rob knows he hasn't got a leg to stand on and that we know his claims of experiencing God are BS. Many people have experiences in their lives which they believe are of God. Very few people, it seems, later come to an understanding that's just how their minds related to it. I suspect Rob is like that.

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Date: Mon, Oct 09, 2000 at 01:51:35 (GMT) From: Rev John Hammond-Smyth Email: pulpit@church.com To: Everyone Subject: Roger - here's the missing sermon Message:

Here's the missing sermon which should come before my last one (which is on your site). As you can see, it chronicles that bleak period of history which is known as The Great Deletion and is proof that the great deletion really did happen and only those who had built their ark of the backup were saved. David and Goliath And it came to pass that the boy (Sir) David built an temple unto the Lord God in human form and many children of ex-premie.org didst come and wonder at the sights therein. Indeed, even the Children of Prem didst frequent that place for the web counter didst shew it to be true. And there came into the land, a fierce and mighty giant whose name was Goliath of Haharaji's Lawyers and he didst smite down the temple of the boy David and destroy all remnants of that holy place. And alas the giant didst also go to the Temple of Drek and knock down the walls and shattered all the holy icons with big boobies and shrines unto the Lord. And there was a great tribulation and a wailing and gnashing of teeth amongst the children of ex-premie.org and then a giant cloud of darkness didst descend which was the shadow of the giant and he didst smite with his sword at the very heart of the temple of DLM/Elan Vital Papers and didst burn all the scriptures therein until no trace was left. And the Lord Haharaji didst celibrate in the kingdom of his kitchen and didst light up a Malboro and drink a goblet of the holy water of Cognac and didst say unto Guru Charnanand - See how easily mine enemies do crumble. For it is written in the DLM/Elan Vital Papers that I have come with more power than ever before! And Charnanand didst bow low before his Lord because he knew which side his bread was buttered and he didst praise and fawn and kiss his feet because he was a shining eggsample of the Lord's knowledge. And these things didst happen at the start of the new age in the forty second year of our Lord's reign. And the battle between Lord Haharaji and the children of ex-prem didst rage on as it is written in the next chapter...

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Date: Tues, Oct 10, 2000 at 21:21:02 (GMT) From: Roger eDrek Email: drek@oz.net To: Rev John Hammond-Smyth Subject: Got it! Message:

Rev John Hammond-Smyth in the House.

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Date: Sun, Oct 08, 2000 at 23:21:18 (GMT) From: Steven Quint Email: sequint@home.com To: Everyone Subject: Satellite Events II Message:

Went to the event today and walked out after 60 seconds, only because it took me 50 seconds to put my shoes back on and tie up the laces. The attendance was 30% of other satellite events. Get your farewell cards ready. Love Steve

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Date: Mon, Oct 09, 2000 at 03:10:48 (GMT) From: Daneane Email: None To: Steven Quint Subject: Satellite Events II Message:

I considered going today. The topic was about teaching other people about knowledge. I thought, briefly, I'd be interested to hear the latest...but then realized I'd probably be unable to contain my laughter, snide remarks and/or puke. So I did not go. Probably for the best. This cult stuff sure is quickly indelible. To think I was never even ritually initiated into it.

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Date: Mon, Oct 09, 2000 at 00:20:44 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: Steven Quint Subject: You still have to take your shoes off? (nt) Message:

ggggg

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Date: Mon, Oct 09, 2000 at 03:15:48 (GMT) From: TED Farkel Email: None To: Jim Subject: You still have to take your shoes off? Really? Message:

Dear Mr. Heller, We don't require anyone to take their shoes off at Farkels Repair Shop when attending videos. But we do require all those attendin to kindly pay their $1/beer BEFORE they take a beer from the cooler.And no one is allowed to pop the top during the satellite feed. Besides that, I like to think that I'm pretty normal,and doing my prachar just like everyone else... Kind Regards' TED Farkel Devoted grease monkey

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Date: Mon, Oct 09, 2000 at 04:46:51 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: TED Farkel Subject: Wait until they send Anne Johnson, Mr. Farkel Message:

Listen, Ted, I'm the last person in the world who'd ever want to tell you what to think or do. 'Que sera, sera' is my motto. But, nonetheless, I want to warn you. There are several Loosers around Maharaji (LAMs) who might give you shit for selling your beer THAT cheap at satellite feeds. The money's all Maharaji's, right? So what are you doing basically giving it away? It's not yours to discount, Ted. It's His.

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Date: Mon, Oct 09, 2000 at 16:35:14 (GMT) From: TED Farkel Email: None To: Jim Subject: I stand corrected. 1.50/beer starting this week! Message:

Dear Mr. Heller- I really don't know what I would do without the wise counsel of old timers like you and Mr. eDrek! You know,ole TED's no dummy, but I really didn't think from that sort of perspective,like,it's all maharaji's money anyway! And then, to get that wonderful and inspiring perspective from Mike Donner,where he told us all that Guru Maharaj Ji is in control of all levels of life, or something like that!I never knew that!How does that dude manage to do all that at the same time,and be our teacher,and own yachts and planes and mistresses and all that other good stuff!I guess the lord does work in mysterious ways, doesn't he?And me,ole country boy TED,never knew what he was gettin into when he got that DVD knoweldge! Oh well, thanks again for that wise and seasoned perspective,and fair warning to all: IT'S 1.50/BEER FROM NOW ON,COS IT AINT YOUR MONEY TO BEGIN WITH !!! Thank you sir, At the bar,In the pit, At the feet,At the helm, In the cockpit, Wherever I need to me for our lord, TED Farkel

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Date: Mon, Oct 09, 2000 at 16:53:31 (GMT) From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: TED Farkel Subject: May I suggest one thing for your community? Message:

You should definitely mail all the premies and aspirants in your community, to inform them about that new opportunity for doing direct service. And I'd also suggets you to have a finance coordinator to synchronize your little activities. He'll make sure that all the money goes where it's supposed to go, and inspire the premies to dedicate I'm sure.

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Date: Mon, Oct 09, 2000 at 19:43:56 (GMT) From: TED Farkel Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: Gotcha covered Mr. J-M! Message:

Dear Mr. J-M, First of all, I understand that you are French.Now let me tell you, I like you French dudes,but let's not ferget that we bailed your butts out about 55 years ago.OK, you seem like a fine feller and seem to know lots about our lord... Now,as to your suggestion;point well taken.We have a feller who collects 1.50 american dollars at the cooler for beer.Like I said before, no popping the tops during lord's satsang or anything disrespectful like that.And as far as collecting money,coordinating finances,keeping the premies in line etc.,well,we use Mr. eDrek's 'boob fest' site as a sort of incentive for the locals premies and aspirants.If they stay in line,say the party line,we have 'special showings' on Sat. nights.If they get out of line, we cut 'em off.Seems to work down here in Mobile.. By the way, Mr. J-M,if you're ever down our way, look us up.And if you're here with a lady, Tues.nights at the video events are ladies night;beers are half price... Thought you might want to know, TED Farkel

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Date: Mon, Oct 09, 2000 at 14:29:44 (GMT) From: One Of The Judges Email: Supreme Court@heaven.org To: Jim Subject: Wait until they send Anne Johnson, Mr. Farkel Message:

I'm just contemplating how I can work Anne Johnson into the Divine punishment.

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Date: Sun, Oct 08, 2000 at 22:04:24 (GMT) From: First mate Email: None To: Everyone Subject: m's yacht/effect on premies Message:

Just cruising throught this site today... Thank you for your information on Serenity... I'm sure that PAMS have a good reason for not telling the premies publicly about the yacht, or why m himself doesn't mention it at programs(he mentions other aspects of cult business and finances).... Anyway, I mentioned it to 3 people in the last week...all of them believed me,winced,took a deep breath,sighed,and said that they can't justify the money trip around m anymore...(these were 3 active premies)...they all said that they will either severely cut or curtail completely any more donations to m... I also mentioned m's girlfriend Monica,the wristwatch collection and a few other tidbits... It's interesting, because I think that 2-3 years ago they would have not listened to me; told each other that I was 'in my mind' or whatever. This time they listened and took it in deeply. I really think this is the beginning of the end for the US cult as we have known it...I think it is also an opportunity for an awakening and growing up for many old time premies... And I think that EPO has more to do with this than anything else that I can think of, and for that reason I thank all of you who have helped start it,maintain it and continue to sponsor it. You are all doing a great service!

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Date: Mon, Oct 09, 2000 at 12:16:39 (GMT) From: JohnT Email: None To: First mate Subject: moyen le jeu Message:

First mate: I really think this is the beginning of the end for the US cult as we have known it...I think it is also an opportunity for an awakening and growing up for many old time premies... JohnT: That's something like my impression. But I do not think it's the beginning of the end, exactly, more like the end of the beginning. Now for the middle game. Nous avons donné l'avertissement juste.

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Date: Mon, Oct 09, 2000 at 03:46:26 (GMT) From: rob_a Email: None To: First mate Subject: m's yacht/effect on premies Message:

no, sir, M's 'cult' will not be ending in the U.S. at all. I do way more probagaion than all of you dis the 'cult' combined. As long as I'm here, probagation will continue in this country, perhaps I shouldn't have given you my real name. his yacht does not phaze me, if I had the cash, I would buy him a much nicer one. later

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Date: Mon, Oct 09, 2000 at 15:34:44 (GMT) From: Salam Email: None To: rob_a Subject: Hey boofhead Message:

What is the matter with you ha? Sticking your nose every where. Can you stick to one name. Also I told that we do not buy mushroom at present. Find something else, OK, or I get angry.

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Date: Mon, Oct 09, 2000 at 01:56:30 (GMT) From: Janet of Venice Email: None To: everybody Subject: WHERE DO I GO TO READ ALL ABOUT MONICA??? Message:

catch me up, folks. i'm so recent. monica who? where do i look? url's please?

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Date: Mon, Oct 09, 2000 at 02:05:32 (GMT) From: Sir Dave Email: None To: Janet of Venice Subject: Here you go Message:

Lucky I'm still up. Anyway, here it is; Click here for Maharaji's affairs I think you'll find it interesting reading.

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Date: Sun, Oct 08, 2000 at 23:49:15 (GMT) From: A question to First Mate Email: None To: First mate Subject: re m's yacht/effect on premies Message:

According to my investigations, the 7,5 mill $ 108 ft yacht built in year 2000 which are for sale, never belonged to Maharaji nor any of his companies. What would you tell your friends if what you told them were just lies?

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Date: Mon, Oct 09, 2000 at 02:51:20 (GMT) From: first mate Email: None To: A question to First Mate Subject: re m's yacht/effect on premies Message:

Dear question: Is there some part of G's evidence that you don't understand? Please enlighten us. I happen to know that John Miller piloted it up the east coast in the spring of 1998,from fla. to rhode Island,for the client (m).Mr. Miller even bragged while giving a little discourse at a local program about living part time on m's yacht,maintaining it,and how it meant so much to him to be able to do it. So,yes I would feel bad if I spread lies,but in this case it seems that you may be the one doing so. Ball's in your court,questioner... First mate

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Date: Mon, Oct 09, 2000 at 12:47:22 (GMT) From: A question for First Mate Email: None To: first mate Subject: re m's yacht/effect on premies Message:

Maharaji neverthe 7,5 mill $ yacht built in year 2000. There is a company Premo marine with issued capital of 100 shares of 0,1 $ who owns a ship Serenity. If this is a gift or what, nobody knows. The watch story from 1974? The Monica story is just rumours? But what did you tell your friends?

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Date: Mon, Oct 09, 2000 at 18:38:36 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: A question for First Mate Subject: If that's all you got, might as well fold Message:

Listen, creep, We don't have all the details. We're in a process of trying to piece together the secret, private and corrupt life of our former cult leader. So maybe the boat's 106', not 108 or 112'. Maybe it was bout in '97 not this year. Big fucking deal. The boat's his and you know it. But look at you! You don't even have a name. Are you a coward or simply cowardly? That's YOUR question!

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Date: Mon, Oct 09, 2000 at 20:07:08 (GMT) From: Bjørn the observant Email: None To: Jim Subject: If that's all you got, might as well fold Message:

Hi Jim The way this was presented by the propaganda machine of ex-premies, was that Maharaji had bought a ship this year for the value of 7,5 mill. $. That is not true. Who owns Premo marine is a speculation. If this was a donation would also be a speculation. If this is a joint venture will also be a speculation. I agree, knowing would be better. Anyway; in the 'court of ex-premies' there is no benefit of doubt. I am not a coward. I assume it takes some courage to stand up against a couple of hundreds who will hate you if you say something against them. Someone else I know proved not to be a man. Proved to lack integrity. You might remember.

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Date: Mon, Oct 09, 2000 at 13:39:09 (GMT) From: Forum Administrator Email: None To: A question for First Mate Subject: Stop the multi-alias posting, please... Message:

Bjorn, you complain whenever someone 'outs' you, yet you show no respect for the guidelines. Please pick an alias and stick to it. You have posted under at least two names on the present page and I'm getting tired of IP checking and finding it's you again. Thanks, Forum Administrator

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Date: Mon, Oct 09, 2000 at 13:45:45 (GMT) From: gerry Email: None To: Bjorn the ped Subject: Hey Bjorn, do you tell your premie pals Message:

about your proclivities? You know, your sexual feelings for five year old children? Hey, if you're 'cured' of this you're the first in history...

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Date: Mon, Oct 09, 2000 at 14:48:11 (GMT) From: A question to gerry Email: None To: gerry Subject: Why do you relly lie gerry Message:

Contiously you lie about my person. About my self: I am married have 2 daugthers of 19 and 23. I love them, they love me. I am very proud of my daughters. My eldest recently got a position as the Product Group Manager with responibility for 10 magazines in the biggest media group in my country. I never had any sexual feeling for them nor for anyone else of younger age. In the post below, I described a feeling I had when I was 14 years old. I fell in love with a person and fantasised about I would marry her when I grew up. The sexual feelings I described were my imagination of me and of her as a grown up persons Ps. How come you know if a person having pedophile sexual tencdency will never get cured? Is this from personal experience or what? Here is my original post: Here is what Bjørn alias Bim wrote: Date: Sat, Nov 20, 1999 at 05:43:29 (EST) From: Bim Doubtfire Email: bim_doubtfire@hotmail.com To: Cynthia G. Subject: Re: Pedophiles Message: Dear Cythia Who are you? What is so important with that, I dont understand. I am a human being. The peak of my career the last 25 within EV / DLM was to operate the VCR at local programs. I dont know if I can call myself a premie. but I admit I aspire to. OK? I did not write I feel sorry for Jagdeo. May be I do. I wrote I felt sad. When I was 14 years old, I fell in love with a 5 year old girl. I did not do anything with her, but I had sexual feelings. Such feelings never occurred later in my life. When I read about pedophilic persons, I feel sad, but also grateful that such desires never developed within me. I think I am very careful about jugding other people. That is based upon some very personal experiences were I was the victim. What concerns Maharaji, I was lucky enough (or unlucky) not to go into the lord of the unverse thing. I did not understand it. In my life, I have accepted that it is a part of being a human to make mistakes. Best regards Bim

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Date: Mon, Oct 09, 2000 at 14:54:09 (GMT) From: gerry Email: None To: Bjorn Subject: I beg your pardon, Bjorn, please forgive me. Message:

I got you mixed up with a guy named Bim Doubtfire. A thousand pardons...

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Date: Mon, Oct 09, 2000 at 15:52:17 (GMT) From: Salam Email: None To: gerry Subject: I beg your pardon, Bjorn, please forgive me. Message:

This story seems to be getting better and better everytime I read it. I think next it going to be about a film that he was making for hollywood. BJ, why do not you make up your mind about what you said and what you thought once and for all. Also I recall last time you were adviced by some caring persons to go and sort yourself out. You still fucking around by posting under different names and telling fairy tales. Read the signs will ya.

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Date: Mon, Oct 09, 2000 at 16:14:50 (GMT) From: Bjørn the observant Email: None To: Salam Subject: I beg your pardon, Salam? Message:

Every word I have written is true. I posted some questions. believe it or not to find out the truth about something. I never changed my story, but ex-premies did. And I still have the urge to find thje truth about something. I asked the FA about Robs email address, but they claim they have asked Rob if they can give it to me. Ex-premies forgot my initial post re Jagdeo. In this I said in my opinion he should have been imprisoned. I also wrote something about the mind set of premies made the premies guilty of not reporting him 25 years ago. So what is your problem?

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Date: Tues, Oct 10, 2000 at 13:09:55 (GMT) From: Salam Email: None To: Bjørn the observant Subject: I beg your pardon, bj? Message:

I have many problems, non of them concern you. If what your doing makes you happy then keep it up. Only decide on the final and last version. The deadline for publication is too cloose.

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Date: Mon, Oct 09, 2000 at 16:49:00 (GMT) From: gerry Email: None To: Bjørn the observant Subject: Bjorn, since you're observant... Message:

OK this Middle East thing, sure it got stirred up when Sharon visited the holy site late September, but why this countdown and why on Yom Kippur (again?) And is THIS just a coincidence: Among the 85 or so people killed so far, most are Palestinians EXCEPT this American born rabbi Hillel Lieberman who just happens to be the second cousin of VP candidate Joe Liebermann. Is someone trying to send a message here ???

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Date: Mon, Oct 09, 2000 at 18:06:31 (GMT) From: Jerry Email: None To: gerry Subject: You think so, Gerry? Message:

OK this Middle East thing, sure it got stirred up when Sharon visited the holy site late September, but why this countdown and why on Yom Kippur (again?) I think Sharon's visit was just the excuse the Palestinians were looking for to start shit up again. They know that a little riot here and there speeds up the 'peace' process where their demands get met. They got back Nablus, didn't they?

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Date: Mon, Oct 09, 2000 at 19:52:58 (GMT) From: gerry Email: None To: Jerry Subject: This war has been planned for some time now Message:

and Rabbi Lieberman's kidnapping and murder smacks more of the Mossad than the PLO. The UN will be 'invited' to come in and be 'peacekeepers' after the slaughter is over. And it's just good business to use those armaments once in while.

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Date: Tues, Oct 10, 2000 at 13:03:45 (GMT) From: Salam Email: None To: gerry Subject: Sure thing Message:

the plastinian had it planned. Guns against stones? 85 to 1. What a plan?

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Date: Tues, Oct 10, 2000 at 18:12:22 (GMT) From: Jerry Email: None To: Salam Subject: Sure thing Message:

Well, Salam, most rioters do use stones when they start a riot, which is basically what the Palestinians are doing. And yes, I do believe they had this planned, especially when nogotiations came to a standstill over the Temple Mount. Back in the 80s, the Paestinians were successful by the types of actions they're taking today, so what was good then should be good now, eh? By the time all of this is over there will be no more Israelis in either the West Bank or the Gaza Strip, just like the Palestinians planned. But Jerusalem, that's another story. All the riots in the world aren't going to shake the Jews loose from the Temple Mount. It's a sad state of affairs and just goes to show you how kooky people can get when they've got religion.

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Date: Mon, Oct 09, 2000 at 05:30:51 (GMT) From: suchabanana Email: None To: first mate questioners Subject: 112' Westport=2000 version of M's 1997 108'(actual Message:

Anyone: Some photos, please, of Serenity? Also: clear, full-frames of Malibu (LA people?) and Miami residences (that became Rajaji's) and Amaroo (Ozzies)? Others? Peace,

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Date: Mon, Oct 09, 2000 at 03:08:40 (GMT) From: X Email: None To: first mate Subject: re m's yacht/effect on premies Message:

>I happen to know that John Miller piloted it up the east coast in the spring of 1998,from fla. to rhode Island Where do you think the money came from for the boat? Do you really know? If a person doesn't benefit in a personal way then it is their option to not be involved with M and K. The bottom line: Is there anything valid in what M teaches? The rest is a red herring. Interesting maybe, but not the fundamental question that needs an answer for somebody to want to be a student of M. Its a big boat. Each of us still has to figure out our life. Don't get too distracted.

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Date: Mon, Oct 09, 2000 at 18:16:41 (GMT) From: Jerry Email: None To: X Subject: re m's yacht/effect on premies Message:

The bottom line: Is there anything valid in what M teaches? The rest is a red herring. That's an interesting point, and no, I don't think there is anything valid in what M teaches, especially when you consider that the lessons change as the years pass.

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Date: Wed, Oct 11, 2000 at 01:48:00 (GMT) From: X Email: None To: Jerry Subject: re m's yacht/effect on premies Message:

>no, I don't think there is anything valid in what M teaches, especially when you consider that the lessons change as the years pass. I can accept your point of view though I don't agree with it. Gday.

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Date: Mon, Oct 09, 2000 at 02:37:36 (GMT) From: G Email: None To: A question to First Mate Subject: The evidence of Maharaji owning a yacht Message:

According to my investigations, the 7,5 mill $ 108 ft yacht built in year 2000 which are for sale, never belonged to Maharaji nor any of his companies. You are correct, that is not Maharaji's yacht, his yacht was built in 1997. The evidence that Maharaji (Prem Rawat) owns the yacht named 'Serenity' whose home port is Newport, RI follows: Click on the links below: . 106 foot yacht - Serenity (from 'Who Owns What: around Prempal Rawat') . Vessel Documentation Data Query This is at the National Marine Fisheries Service web site. Go to the bottom of the page, enter Serenity, then click on 'Submit Query'. The search will take about a minute. When the results come up, use your browser's Find menu option to find 'Newport Ri'. Serenity is presently # 370 in the list. The record looks like this: 370. SERENITY 1997 Recreational Newport Ri 106 1051618 Yes which means Vessel Name: Serenity, Built: 1997, Service: Recreational, Home Port: Newport Ri, Length: 106, Doc. No.: 1051618, Documented: Yes When you see this record, click on SERENITY. The resulting page shows Owner: PREMO MARINE INC There is information on Premo Marine Inc at the Rhode Island goverment web site. It shows that Kathleen M Gliebe is the president. Address: 516 North Pennsfield Place, Ste. 108, Thousand Oaks, CA 91360, USA. The 2000 Annual Report, which is in TIFF format, is linked to from this page. See Annual Report Image, 00Annual. To see it, you might need to download it and view it in a graphics viewer, or you can just see the info below. The Annual Report shows two more familiar names: John K. Bale and Robert A. Jacobs. Jacobs is Rawat's lawyer. Both Gliebe and Bale are involved in Rawat's financial dealings. The Thousand Oaks address is a familiar Elan Vital/Prem Rawat related address. The activity page shows: NEW CORPORATION CREATED 4/17/97. Serenity was built in 1997. Given these two facts, I think it was purchased by Rawat in early 1997. ------------------------- Reprint of a post below: Here's some more info on Rawat's company 'Premo Marine Inc', which owns, maintains, and operates Rawat's 106 foot megayacht 'Serenity'. This is from the 2000 and 1999 annual reports, which are downloadable as TIFF image files from the RI sec. of state's web page on Premo Marine. This page is linked to from JM's page on Premo Marine. --------------------------------------------------------- State of Rhode Island and Providence Plantations Office of the Secretary of State Profit corporation annual report for the year 2000 Filing Period: January 1 - March 1 * Filing fee: $50.00 1. Corporate ID No. 84635 2. Name of Corporation: Premo Marine Inc. 3. Street Address Principal Business Office: 2800 BankBoston Plaza 4. Business Phone No.: 409-849-7800 5. State of Incorporation: Rhode Island 6. SIC Code: 6882 [means 'other personal services'] 7. Brief description of the charactoer of business conducted in Rhode Island: Maintaining and operating, for the personal use and beneficial owners, one ocean going vessel. 8. Names and addresses of the officers: President: Kathleen M. Giebe 516 North Pennsfield Place, Suite 108 Thousand Oaks, CA 91360 Vice President: John K. Bale (same address) 9. Names and addresses of the directors: Robert A. Jacobs c/o Millbank, Tweed, 1 Chase Manhattan Plaza New York, NY 10005 10. Shares authorized: 1,000 $.01 par value 11. Shares issued: 100 Common $.01 Signed by John K. Bale, Vice President/Treasurer, on 3/31/00 ------------------------------------------------------------ The 1999 annual report is similar, except it lists 2700 Hospital Trust Tower, Providence, RI 02903 as the street address of the principal business office. It was signed by Bale on 6/10/99.

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Date: Mon, Oct 09, 2000 at 02:54:57 (GMT) From: X Email: None To: G Subject: evidence of a yacht Message:

Details are still vague, keep at it. Who are the Premo Marine investors? What do you know of the financing details and money flows? Not everyone is poor. Not even all the premies.

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Date: Mon, Oct 09, 2000 at 16:53:07 (GMT) From: G Email: None To: X Subject: an investment??? Message:

Details are still vague, keep at it. Who are the Premo Marine investors? What makes you think there are any 'investors'? Considering sales tax, luxury tax, possible financing costs such as interest, maintenance costs, operating costs, slip fees, etc., the yacht would have to appreciate in value considerably to get any kind of decent return. Yachts typically depreciate in value, especially new ones. The only way I can see to make money on a yacht is to buy a used classic at a distressed price. Show me some evidence for your extraordinary claim that buying a new luxury megayacht is a good financial investment. What do you know of the financing details and money flows? Not everyone is poor. Not even all the premies. What are you claiming?

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Date: Mon, Oct 09, 2000 at 19:12:40 (GMT) From: JohnT Email: None To: G Subject: a definition?? Message:

yacht n. a hole in the ocean that swallows money.

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Date: Mon, Oct 09, 2000 at 18:20:49 (GMT) From: Jerry Email: None To: G Subject: an investment??? Message:

You seem to know an awful lot about yachts, G. Do you own one? How's about talking us all on a cruise?

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Date: Mon, Oct 09, 2000 at 18:27:33 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: Jerry Subject: Oh yeah, just what I need.... Message:

... to get talked on a cruise by G! :)

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Date: Mon, Oct 09, 2000 at 18:34:26 (GMT) From: Jerry Email: None To: Jim Subject: Oh yeah, just what I need.... Message:

Jim, At first I was puzzled. What does Jim mean, get talked on a cruise. That doesn't mean anything. Then I saw what you were referring to. Doh!! (as Homer Simpson might say)

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Date: Mon, Oct 09, 2000 at 00:19:30 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: A question to First Mate Subject: What? Message:

What 'investigations'? First, who are you? Second, what are you saying? That Maharaji doesn't have a Wesport-built multi-million dollar yacht called 'Serenity'? What are you saying's the truth? What are the lies? If you've got something to say, just say it.

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Date: Sun, Oct 08, 2000 at 20:42:50 (GMT) From: suchabanana Email: None To: Everyone Subject: FREE also means: 'Priceless!' Message:

Humankind's rapacity and passions have obscured reason, and rife ignorance is a blight on the course of evolutionary sensibility. That's partially why human technology is polluting the planet, too. The crude species is hell-bent on making itself extinct -- if oxygen and H2O are free, then they can't be worth anything, either, right? So, in the greedy race to produce and consume the many artifacts and shiny trinkets that seem to have material value, the homo sapiens can't see its own circumstance -- through arrogance, ignorance and its own spiritual and mental failure. As for my path, I care not for selfish, idle or popular sentiment -- for that unsteady road leads into unwitting servitude to shifting attitudes and platitudes. The butcher's block awaits for those who follow the mindless herd, oblivious to their own shackles and their fate. I still believe in being true to the Light within the heart -- a place of brilliant solace, from which I would not wish to part. Peace, P.S. (to G.) sad but true - the 'pearls before swine' syndrome?

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Date: Sun, Oct 08, 2000 at 22:50:49 (GMT) From: Sir Dave Email: None To: suchabanana Subject: Standing on the shoulders of giants Message:

I'm sorry but I cannot listen to or take anyone seriously who condemns or criticises the human race. To make such criticisms implies that one sees oneself as superior to the great unwashed masses. Looks like you're about ready to start your own cult, Suchabanana. One of the main ingredients of cults is to criticise humanity. You have that here in spades. In defence of the human race, we are trying our best to solve the global problems which our technology has caused. It has taken great strides for us to achieve what we have, so far. And once again, we will take more of those great strides to overcome any global problems. Look what we've achieved in just the last few decades. An end to the threat of global nuclear war, an end to the cold war and greater global awareness of wars and atrocities which previously would have gone unnoticed. We are starting to tackle seriously many of the enviromental problems which beset us. We are attempting to make this world a better place for all people. It is a long and difficult task and yet history has shown us that people the world over do overcome difficulties and perform seemingly impossible feats. I have great faith in the human race. We stand on the shoulders of giants before us. In my own life, I owe my very life to the man who invented cardiac angioplasty, without which I would have died some years ago. He was a very brave man because he first tried the procedure on himself to see if it would work and was safe. He earns a good salary, no doubt, and he deserves it. He is also fairly unasuming about his medical breakthrough and instead of basking in the glory of his deed, is attempting to improve and refine the procedure. It is people like him who we have to thank and there are many of them, throughout all the world.

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Date: Mon, Oct 09, 2000 at 03:09:01 (GMT) From: suchabananer Email: None To: Sir Dave Subject: Gulliver's Travels didn't have pollution or nukes Message:

Look what we've achieved in just the last few decades. An end to the threat of global nuclear war [really? There are about 26,000 nuclear warheads still in service and ready for action.] an end to the cold war and greater global awareness of wars and atrocities which previously would have gone unnoticed.' [Has that prevented atrocities from occurring? Rwanda, West Africa, Colombia, Kosovo, Kuwait, Iran, Afghanistan, Cambodia, Palestine, Chechnya, etc.] We [who? Mobil Oil, ] are starting to tackle seriously many of the enviromental problems which beset us. We [who? Saddam Hussein, Stephen King, Snoopy Doggy Doo, McDonald's, Starbucks, Nike, Firestone Tires] are attempting to make this world a better place for all people. But I applaud your faith in humanity and optimism for continued improvement. An uninformed opinion: We're still all bozos on this bus, man. But there might be species and individual evolution... Peace, PS Incidentally: At this point, cults bore me. Also, Soapbox derbies. Ciao.

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Date: Mon, Oct 09, 2000 at 00:43:33 (GMT) From: Gregg Email: None To: Sir Dave Subject: Standing on the shoulders of giants and dwarves Message:

Or 'dwarfish thieves,' as Shakespeare writes of Macbeth. I'm sorry, Sir Dave, because you are usually a beacon of uncommon sense on this motley forum, but I have to disagree with you here. Many many great men have criticized the human race (since literature is my game, I think of satirists like Swift and Twain, but every discipline has its cynics). Criticizing our basest tendencies does not necessarily imply that one feels superior to the hoi polloi. Finding flaws in human nature, in fact, often goes hand in hand with ruthless self-examination. And isn't the unexamined life hardly worth living? What's-his-name thought so. On the other hand, I have certainly met people who held their own supposedly flawless eco-friendly lifestyle up to be admired, in contrast to the mindlessness of the masses. That kind of preening is indeed repugnant. I'm just not so sure I detect that in Suchabana's post.

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Date: Mon, Oct 09, 2000 at 01:09:26 (GMT) From: Sir Dave Email: None To: Gregg Subject: Gulliver's Travels has a happy ending Message:

Swift I do know about. He was a great satirist of his time. When he suggested that the Irish should eat their own children during the Irish potato famine, many people were appalled but his message did get through to some of the politicians of the day who understood its correct meaning. I'd say that Swift was more a political commentator rather than a blanket condemner of humanity. Remember, Gulliver's Travels does have a happy ending. You have in front of you, right now, one of the greatest examples of human's ingenuity and resourcefulness. Yes, your computer. I think it is always best to accentuate the positive in the human race rather than just condemn the failings. That's my hard worn philosophy and I won't change that now. Jonathan Swift would have been very impressed if he could see how far humanity has come since his day. I think he'd agree that there's still along way to go, which is interesting in itself since there is in humans an innate desire and need to improve things all of the time. That is a fascinating subject in itself.

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Date: Mon, Oct 09, 2000 at 18:27:53 (GMT) From: Jerry Email: None To: Sir Dave Subject: Gulliver's Travels has a happy ending Message:

I agree with you, Sir D. We make mistakes, but not to the point where we don't know what they are and can't do anything about them. I think we'll get through.

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Date: Mon, Oct 09, 2000 at 03:11:58 (GMT) From: Gregg Email: binduesque@yahoo.com To: Sir Dave Subject: Our Travels may have a happy ending Message:

It's late, and my daughter has to go to bed, but I have to dash off a reply... Yes, I am with you in brotherly optimism. The almost-complete abolition of the age-old horror of slavery is cause for applause. The concern for our planet's health, though perhaps a little late, is laudable. The twentieth century, though, has a catalogue of horrors almost unmatched in historical record. So we're not exactly out of the woods. The computer...its immediate effects are benign, yes; but even the most amateur conspiracy theorist can see evil ahead...but, yes, so far, it's just paranoid imaginings. And, on a related topic: the yahoos. Strange that the computer guys would pick that word. (Note to newbies: Swift, in book four of Gulliver's travels, postulated a world where horses -- Hounynyms (sp?)- were wise, and hairy human-like creatures named yahoos - Swift invented the word-- were ignorant and wild ) Why did they pick that word...I guess yahoo! is an exclamatory celebration...but anyway... Was the ending happy? Maybe I've forgotten something, but I think not. In the first two books, politicians were skewered: and scientists were roasted in book three. In the last book, the human race itself was dissed as essentially base. Swift may have been an embittered cleric, but the fact remains: critics of human nature embody human nature's most endearing quality: the urge to change. (Which could be seen as the genetic code: EVOLVE!)

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Date: Sun, Oct 08, 2000 at 17:36:36 (GMT) From: G Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Rawat tries to rationalize his luxury megayacht? Message:

From www.enjoyinglife.org, 'Barcelona: A crew for life' (I added the words in brackets, the Barcelona event was on Oct 2): ... My heart was moved by his description of reading the words of his master, Sri Hans Ji Maharaj, in a publication that is being prepared for [sale at] the Hans Jayanti 2000 event in Delhi next month [don' wait, pay your registration fee now, spend a fortune to go to India to see him] ... Maharaji described the need for us to have a skilled crew to help sail the boat on our journey through life. That the navigator is 'clarity', the rigger, 'wisdom' and the hand on the tiller is that of the master. ... and the 106' luxury megayacht is 'Serenity', which is owned by Prem Rawat (aka 'Maharaji') via 'Premo Marine Inc'. Oh yes, it's all so spiritual, so cosmic because he used 'boat' in a questionable analogy, that makes it all ok. More specifically, a sailboat is used, but why quibble? You see, when Rawat is piloting his megayacht, he's really piloting the premies' lives; divine waves go floating through the air to guide the premies. Without this divine yacht, how could he pilot the premies' lives? Now don't go thinking that this contradicts the idea that 'The Master' is 'all-powerful'. If you do that, you're just trapped in the 'logic of the mind'. Of course. That 'Premo Marine Inc' owns, operates, and maintains 'Serenity' for the personal use of its 'beneficial owners' is all just an illusion, right? He doesn't really care about his yacht, it's just a needed symbol with a real effect, you see? The yacht is a most necessary manifestation of his guidance. This also means that Rawat needs a skilled crew for his yacht because the premies need a 'skilled crew', or something like that. It's all too cosmic to figure out with the mind. My guess is that the pilot's chair was custom molded to fit his ass, I mean, we're talking important stuff here. Rawat has used this kind of trick many times. I wonder, does he also have a luxury sailboat?

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Date: Sun, Oct 08, 2000 at 21:41:02 (GMT) From: suchabandana Email: None To: G Subject: That was truly a most Blissful boating discourse! Message:

Dear G: Thanks for sharing Most Blissful and Enlightening Discourse! 'Maharaji described the need for us to have a skilled crew to help sail the boat on our journey through life. That the navigator is 'clarity', the rigger, 'wisdom' and the hand on the tiller is that of the master...' ...and the latrine [head] is devotion to a greedy guru. Top 3 tunes of the week: 3. Get your motor running, looking for adventure.. 2. Yachting takes me away, to where I'm going... 1. Catch a wave and you're sitting on top of the World... Peace,

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Date: Sun, Oct 08, 2000 at 12:14:58 (GMT) From: Steven Quint Email: sequint@home.com To: Everyone Subject: Satellite Events Message:

After all the vitriol I've expressed against our esteemed fearful leader recently, I have to admit I'm contemplating going to the satellite event this afternoon. My point of view is that after going to so many events, I want to be there when the end is broadcast in front of me on the screen.

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Date: Sun, Oct 08, 2000 at 10:43:11 (GMT) From: suchabanana Email: None To: Everyone Subject: ALTRUISM - choose LIGHT, or increase the darkness. Message:

ALTRUISM -- lesson learned: what it should have been, all along -- without the trappings, empowering, rituals, material enrichment, indoctrination, abuse, cheat, monopolization, deceit, mis-dessemination == and now a reaffirmation of the practice of truth - and using these breaths we have left to do the Best we possibly can with the life we've each been given to be: fair, kind, sharing, forgiving, apologetic, enjoying, learning, affirming, feeling, and marveling at the boundless variety of experiences we can sense in our consciousness and capabilities. More: Look, r.e. (S)alam, you said yourself that you had genuine experiences of totally incredible light. Yes - Ditto for a Whole Lot of people [+ other miracles left unsaid]. There is Still a path of Light, and there is a path of Darkness, too: If a person has had a true illuminated union with a universal almighty light within Lights, then that person would be untrue to his self -- were he to try and derive monetary profit or worldly power from the misuse of that gift itself. Wouldn't he? Q: Who has put in 1=2 hours of 'practice' every single day without fail, for (say) just 10 years? Anyone-- who, out there? And... likewise, Who has ever felt the truth of the inborn simplicity of what can ultimately be felt or understood in the presence of Light, the inner soundstream, the ebbing and flowing spiritus of our mortality, enshrined in innocent humility, Not insurmounted by our inability to make rhyme or reason of diammetrically opposed juxtapostion, for the treason of our doubts -- and our tears, and our declamations, and our shame, and our hopes, and fears- and the adorations - yet, what remains (for some) clear? - a path that bodes us well, and bids us rise to the occasion - as noble as our souls can be... and our lives, a reclamation! Yeah, A gift may still be a gift, regardless of a flawed human giver. I can not deny my solitary trysts with Light, Bliss, and beyond. Therefore, I can not dishonor the truth of my secret personal experiences. My friends, whatever can be truly felt from the techniques is something that is not ours to mess around with cavalierly? Capisce?! ADVISORY: Let's tread lightly in that domain, please. [later, don't say you weren't advised] If one has felt the Source of life's energy, then one should at least recognize that the bread of life which is being buttered still arrives on schedule -- one breath at a time. While my inner eye resides in that abode, still do I beg a fellowship of mercy and peace in our ultimate intentions, and the mode. TRuthSpeak: The means must justify the ends. Peace, again suchabanana

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Date: Mon, Oct 09, 2000 at 02:37:46 (GMT) From: bill Email: None To: suchabanana Subject: the caliber of the forum Message:

Greetings Suchie, Ive been out of town for a week and I leave in an hour again. Dont fergit, in the midst of having fun trying to articulate reality, that there is a reason why no one is able to nail it. It SEEMS like this is the view, or that is certainly accurate, but, then someone can come along and point out where you veered into assumption. So sure, make a case for a view, but keep in mind that there are some really weighty characters here that will engage you in an effort to sift through evidence, if they arent thrown off any interest by stateing reality in broad brush style. I didnt say that well, but really, I have read threads here that included, well, I can mention names but I can say that you may not know the solid scientific and reasoning minds that prowl here. Good luck ever finding a richer bunch of characters to explore the subject of reality with. You might consider changing your name and starting to inquire to some of the folks about what they think. Not in a thread maybe but by going up to one person at a time. Or keep the suchie name but also do a query on the side. I go to 2 mens meeting when I can. One in Princeton NJ and one in Wethersfield conn. Mostly guys in thier 60's-80's. Believe me, I dont think everyone is equal. Some guys have taken thier minds and used them and honed them. I love hearing those old guys. I have been here at this forum for I dont know, 3 years? There are some really formidable minds here. I dont just spout off at the old guy meetings, they would endure it of course, but out of respect, I try to meet them on thier level. If there was a shp at the meeting I could of course dumb down to his enlightenment model mind, but the old men would not be entertained by lunacy and excess. I do respect you as you know. I do not see you getting response from threads like you could have here. I am saying this because I think you could have a real satisfying thing going on with some of the silent ones if you try to engage them......carefully.

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Date: Mon, Oct 09, 2000 at 03:32:30 (GMT) From: suchabanana Email: None To: bill Subject: Well, we've all been burned before; some are wary. Message:

No one has to defend or explain, justify, or rationalize their own experience of meditation. That's personal for each of us. Either we find it meaningful, or we don't -- in which case we'd probably attempt to refute it or downgrade it. There was once a king of Sicily, Stupor Mundi, and he wanted to prove/disprove the existence of a soul. So, the story goes: Stupor had his physicians slowly cut open a prisoner's head to see if there was a soul inside. They couldn't find the soul -- and the subject of the experiment, of course, died. But Stupor Mundi had scientifically proved the nonexistence of the soul, right? Just because there's baloney and salami available, doesn't mean we can't eat some healthy fruits and vegetables. Peace,

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Date: Mon, Oct 09, 2000 at 18:51:07 (GMT) From: Jerry Email: None To: suchabanana Subject: Here's what I think Message:

It's about survival. If we can't come up with something that will extend our existence beyond the grave, a need in us goes unfulfilled -- the need to survive. So we come up with this thing called the soul which, supposedly, does survive the grave, and as such, satisfies that basic need in us. It doesn't mean that the soul actually exists, but if you believe it does, it satisfies a need.

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Date: Mon, Oct 09, 2000 at 03:58:30 (GMT) From: bill Email: None To: suchabanana Subject: Well, we've all been burned before; some are wary. Message:

Hi Suchie, It isnt the experience that gets dissed, although Salam did a potent job of dissing it. It is the interpretation that is the area I am talking about. That is where the fun is to be had. People here do pound on statements of truth, but I have seen MANY times where explorations of truth get different treatment. The treading of the explorations is where care comes in. You have enthusiasm and you hit good points and then what LOOKS like it might be true gets turned into statements of truth and that is where I think the conflict begins. Which is definately not what you are after. Maybe I said it better this time? I said before I thought you were on a roll. I would like it to go smooth for you so I chimed in. Dont fergit, we are hypersensitive here. Ideas are pounded to test thier worth but you can navigate here without poundings, There is just a trick to it. You are more than capable of mastering that. Got to go! Hope you have a good week Suchie:)

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Date: Sun, Oct 08, 2000 at 13:46:29 (GMT) From: Salam Email: None To: suchabanana Subject: How clever. Message:

Sucha, you live at the boundary of my intellect, a place that I do not visit very often. I guess it is dilapidated by now. When I am there I do not function properly, so I use my backup, intuition. I have so many unanswered questions. Before I ask them I want us to take a little journey. But if you give me a bit of your time, I want you to try this poster. Stand up; spread your legs about three feet. Now stretch up; pull your head and hand backward until you feel your spine bending. We will call this pose, the “FLOATING” poster. OK, you’re ready, fasten your seat belt. Close your eyes. Imagine a giant steal concave mirror in front of you, you can not see the ends of it. Now look in the center. There is a spot of bright light. OK, 1, 2, 3. Fire. You are traveling at a very high speed towards the center. You need to stay on target. Gravitational forces are pulling you all over the place and you have to put a super human effort to concentrate. As you get closer to the target it starts to glow, your eyes are popping out off your head and your brain is at a million degree of heat. You want to go back, but you can not, because you are reading this. The spot is starting to change shape, the combination of colors are incredibly un-comprehendable. You have a moment to look around and you can see that you are in fact heading to a hole in the center, this pumps up your adrenaline further and curiosity get the better of you. You are so close now you can see through the hole. You realize that the light symphony is not taking place on the mirror. No it is the reflection of what is through the hole. That clears you mind. At the moment you have passed the event horizon. You are at the point of exchange, where suddenly you pass at an uncalculable speed through the wormhole and exit from the other side. Your rocket engines suddenly die off and you stop. You look around and you see a gigantic empty space. And in this space there is only on object. A solid fireball, so hot and bright its light passes through your skin, muscle, and bone. You turn transparent. Your body is like crystal clear, you can see through it. For a second imagine you are in the Floating position, drifting aimlessly in this space. Nothing happens in this space. It is calm, quiet, Seiren and endlessly questionable. OK, lights on. You can open your eyes now. This is my experience with light. I give it to you to rationalize, intellectualize, dissect, criticize or flush through your toilet. What is it? What is the point of that? What’s next? Your intellectually religious arguments are nothing more than mystical cult based propaganda that was installed by some half cocked lovers of truth and listening to over enthusiast blind and brain dead stories. You want my opinion on no-liege. Well, I believe that knowledge is something that I do not understand. It is way ahead of me. It is what make me human and it’s my link to existence. What does that mean? Fucking nothing. 24 wasted years of nothing. That’s what it means. Take Care, LOL Salam

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Date: Sun, Oct 08, 2000 at 12:13:59 (GMT) From: Sir Dave Email: sirdavid12@hotmail.com To: suchabanana Subject: ALTRUISM - choose TEA or increase the cocoa Message:

The light just gives me a headache. I posted my experience of that here a few weeks ago. What has looking at optical neural light got to do with altruism? Nothing in my opinion. I don't go too hot on this thing that I have been given life and therefore should be grateful for it. It's illogical. If you exist, then you already have life by the fact that you exist. If you don't exist then there is no you to be given any life to. I think you're reacting to someone's idea of selling those meditation techniques. Your view is still that of a premie. You believe they are sacred and something to do with God. You believe it's some sort of divine knowledge. Myself and probably other people don't think like that. They're just four meditation techniques. They are not even the same ones now that I received when I got knowledge in 1972. In the Western World we live in a free market. Everything finds its own level in that market. Meditation techniques are already part of that market. I know a breathing excercise technique which I read in a book back in 1968. It's quite good and it can have a profound effect sometimes. However, I never once considered it divine or from God. Maharaji and Co have programmed people to believe that optical light staring, straining to hear inner sounds, following the breath and strange tongue contortions are somehow divine and knowledge of God. Any experiences that people have from these practises is believed to be 'God' and this is because that's what people have been told. Therefore, it is believed to be divine knowledge. I say it's all bunkum. It's no more divine than my breathing excercise technique which I read in a book in 1968. If people sell Maharaji's knowledge for £20 a throw or give it away free, it is not an argument of morals or altruism. It isn't a 'scam' to sell meditation techniques. It isn't evil or 'against Gods will'. The techniques don't belong to God any more than your shirt does and selling them does make economic sense. Maybe if you want to be altruistic you could give a discount for the unemployed and pensioners.

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Date: Sun, Oct 08, 2000 at 21:22:13 (GMT) From: suchabanana Email: None To: Sir Dave and Salam Subject: ALTRUISM - choose integrity Message:

Sir Dave, I feel sorry for your experience, then. However, that has not been my own experience, including way before I ever heard of m. Sure, techniques are techniques. I'm not talking about neurons, friend. Different strokes for different folks... Peace, Salam, So, you've had a little enjoyment of the Light,too! [per your declaration] What does that mean? [bleeping] nothing to you. So, To thine own self be untrue? Simple: In that case, don't disingenuously pander something that's been admittedly a waste of your time. OK? Peace,

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Date: Sun, Oct 08, 2000 at 04:32:34 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: Everyone Subject: I swear Janet puts this stuff up just for us Message:

From ELK: Clarity's friends True love and joy, peace and harmony contentment, serenity, tranquility beauty, simplicity, sincerity, humility understanding, grace, blessing happiness, sweetness, bliss truth, immortality, heaven: exquisite majestic delight. With so much contained in me, my heart I never have to live without. What incredible company I get to hang out with. All thanks to my teacher Wow, the banquet of life is spread out before us for everyone who wants to partake. Kindness, compassion, mercy fulfillment, enlightenment, Knowledge enjoyment, appreciation, celebration purity, divinity, eternity wisdom, salvation, consciousness hope, longing, thirst presence, freedom, breath life, alive, fun trust, quietness, feeling, gratitude, thank you ... I am overwhelmed by the light... Janice Wilson Baldwinsville, NY, USA

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Date: Sun, Oct 08, 2000 at 07:09:27 (GMT) From: Janet of venice Email: None To: Jim Subject: NOT 'JANET' YOU FOO'! PAY ATTENTION! _I'M_ JANET Message:

SIGH...I GET THIS ALL THE TIME. I AM JANET. SHE IS 'janice'. the names are not the same. i'm not 'janice' and she's not JANET. DIDNT WE HAVE ENOUGH TROUBLE WITH THE TWO STEVE'S, WITHOUT STARTING ANOTHER MIX UP?...OK, THE LEO HAS ROARED. i'll stand down now.

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Date: Sun, Oct 08, 2000 at 16:37:04 (GMT) From: AJW Email: None To: Janet of venice Subject: Hi Janet Message:

I just read your 'Journey' and thought it was great. Thanks a lot. Anth (plastered) of paris

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Date: Sun, Oct 08, 2000 at 05:20:45 (GMT) From: Coach Email: None To: Jim Subject: It's a setup Message:

My own view on Janice in particular is that she's a revenge attack for the EPO Operation Trojan Horse sting debacle which I suspect elanvital.org have never quite got over. They probably give her a few shots of JD, a couple of reefers and a quallude and she just churns it out. They must have shitloads of the stuff backed up just waiting to ambush us with. It doesn't look good at all. Coach

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Date: Sun, Oct 08, 2000 at 07:12:34 (GMT) From: janet of venice Email: None To: Coach Subject: the trojan horse? que paso? Message:

i wasnt here for that. tell me the story

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Date: Sun, Oct 08, 2000 at 13:54:50 (GMT) From: Coach Email: None To: janet of venice Subject: the trojan horse? que paso? Message:

Aquí está la conexión Operation Trojan Horse Coche

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Date: Sun, Oct 08, 2000 at 15:28:20 (GMT) From: JohnT Email: None To: Coach Subject: the trojan horse? Thanks Coach! Message:

Well, thanks for that Coach. Another tidbit for us (comparative) newbies here!! And excellent work, Nigel, Jim, JW, TD and all. Couple of questions, though. How come you guys didn't die laughing or get struck down by the wrath of the living lord? Just curious.

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Date: Sun, Oct 08, 2000 at 15:57:23 (GMT) From: Coach Email: None To: JohnT Subject: the trojan horse? Thanks Coach! Message:

Before my time too. The bullets are on the march!!

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Date: Sun, Oct 08, 2000 at 16:42:38 (GMT) From: JohnT Email: None To: Coach Subject: it must be... Message:

The Rainbo w Alliance march!!

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Date: Sun, Oct 08, 2000 at 17:13:33 (GMT) From: Salam Email: None To: JohnT Subject: neat trick, how did you do that..nt Message:

nt

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Date: Sun, Oct 08, 2000 at 17:40:24 (GMT) From: JohnT Email: None To: Salam Subject: hand cut html Message:

Use 'Edit' or 'View' from your browser's menu and look for something like 'Edit page source' or 'View page source'. Alternatively, save the page to your local device (PC) and open the saved file with an ordinary text editor. What a person has posted is found just after Message: Then look; learn and hack!!! OK now?

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Date: Sun, Oct 08, 2000 at 18:39:55 (GMT) From: Coach Email: None To: JohnT Subject: or.... Message:

Use Cut 'N Tag 2.1.3 HTML tool for discussion boards (421k) Ernie & Jennifer's WebPage

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Date: Mon, Oct 09, 2000 at 01:20:14 (GMT) From: Salam Email: None To: Coach Subject: If you have noticed yesterday Message:

That for some reason or another the VIEW/SOURCE option was not working on F5 or ex-premie.org site. I found that out when I tried to read the source document. Today it is working. Tricks of FA?

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Date: Sun, Oct 08, 2000 at 15:39:07 (GMT) From: Salam Email: None To: JohnT Subject: Ever heared of Spiritual Condoms?..nt Message:

nt

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Date: Sun, Oct 08, 2000 at 05:22:14 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: Coach Subject: Imagine spending a little time with her (nt) Message:

fffff

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Date: Sun, Oct 08, 2000 at 05:35:55 (GMT) From: Coach Email: None To: Jim Subject: That's wierd Message:

What was that film? 'Dangerous Liasons.' I bet she's no Michelle Pfeiffer.

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Date: Sun, Oct 08, 2000 at 04:33:47 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: Jim Subject: Don't worry, Ivette, we haven't forgotten you Message:

Silence From that place, arise to welcome this life every day. Quiet chords from guitars: Floating on the silence that surrounds me Quiet thoughts and silent dreams Quiet walks by bright streams I dance in the harmony of silence I feel the pure gratitude with simplicity in my heart. In my life, I accept 'with thanks' what I have been given and what I am still being given. I accept. I feel. I feel truly alive. And I love it. Ivete Belfort Mattos Sao Paolo, Brazil

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Date: Sun, Oct 08, 2000 at 04:35:04 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: Jim Subject: Hey, Elani, are you ripping off Ivette?? Message:

In Rome I went to the magician of the heart, and my heart became a lake of stillness; My mind an empty well. And then the magic flute began to play, through every pore, through every cell. I became an instrument of happiness, sweet notes of pure contentment. The magician of the heart touched every available string and million of magnificent colors flowing, flying, like birds set free into the sky. I feel like an empty vessel longing to be filled by this love longing to be filled forever. . Eleni Kyriakopoulou Athens, Greece

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Date: Sun, Oct 08, 2000 at 04:37:52 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: Jim Subject: Hold on! What's going on here? Message:

There are only four new 'Expressions' on ELK and they all sound like they came out of the same set of premie mix-and-match poetry fridge magnets. Get these guys a few new metaphors, PLEASE!: I need to be reminded Although I know the phone number of my heart I need to be reminded to whom am I then really talking. Although I know how to tune the strings of my heart I need to be reminded for whom am I then really playing Stojan Svet Postojna, Slovenia

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Date: Sun, Oct 08, 2000 at 04:55:29 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: Jim Subject: ****PLAGIARISM SCANDAL ROCKS ELK!!!**** Message:

It all looked innocent enough at first. Waking up from my nap, before I go out tonight, I thought I'd take a look at ELK and see what's cooking. Okay, there's a funny blurb on Maharaji in Barcelon the other day, talking about how he needs the right 'crew' for his 'boat' (don't know if he catually used the words 'yacht' or 'Serenity' then), but all else was pretty common. Slow, even. So I started looking at the Expressions. Nothing special there, just a few posts from a few regulars. So I posted them, thinking, like I say, well, not really thinking anything. Just, well, you know. And then I saw it! There is a thread of undeniable plagiarism throughout three of these posts! Here, take a look yourself. I don't know how EV will ever deal with this. My guess is that ELK will be off-line by the morning. Don't be surprised if Ivette, Elani and Stojan disappear either. Only Janet's post reflects any real individuality here. In the circumstances, I salute her. Check it out: I need to be reminded Although I know the phone number of my heart I need to be reminded to whom am I then really talking. Although I know how to tune the strings of my heart I need to be reminded for whom am I then really playing Stojan Svet Postojna, Slovenia ---------------------------------------------------------------- Silence From that place, arise to welcome this life every day. Quiet chords from guitars: Floating on the silence that surrounds me Quiet thoughts and silent dreams Quiet walks by bright streams I dance in the harmony of silence I feel the pure gratitude with simplicity in my heart. In my life, I accept 'with thanks' what I have been given and what I am still being given. I accept. I feel. I feel truly alive. And I love it. ---------------------------------------------------------------- In Rome I went to the magician of the heart, and my heart became a lake of stillness; My mind an empty well. And then the magic flute began to play, through every pore, through every cell. I became an instrument of happiness, sweet notes of pure contentment. The magician of the heart touched every available string and million of magnificent colors flowing, flying, like birds set free into the sky. I feel like an empty vessel longing to be filled by this love longing to be filled forever. . Eleni Kyriakopoulou Athens, Greece Ok, it's not exactly clear if Elani means 'magician' or 'musician'. I'm sure she worked on this poem for some time. You don't make up stuff like this overnight, let me tell you. I know a little bit about poetry, not that I'm any good at it myself, mind you, but I do know that it's an exacting craft and shit like this is NOT easy to spit out. So these are very experienced, if not professional, premie poets. They know what they're doing. Now tell me, do you think any of this is a mere coincidence? What, are you blind or something?

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Date: Mon, Oct 09, 2000 at 01:44:19 (GMT) From: Bill Email: None To: Jim Subject: ****ancient History ROCKS ELK!!!**** Message:

Hi Jim, Glad you liked the package. Do you want me to send more to the same address or to your home. I was thinking of sending a trunk by bus as well as a poster tube. Email me at bburke#rocketmail.com if you have a address change to make. I was gone this week and am leaving tonight again. You picked out what I thought you would first. I agree that it is great stuff. I thought you had some way to scan the stuff. The state of conn proclamation is worthy of a scan and/or a thread. Do pull out his comments about anger from that tape at the beginning. Got to go. By the way, as you know from anonomousie, when an ex spouse tells a story........you might get.....well, as a lawyer, you strive to make your side look good and the other look like hell.(er)

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Date: Sun, Oct 08, 2000 at 04:48:23 (GMT) From: Coach Email: None To: Jim Subject: A trifle harsh, Jim Message:

Fair's fair. Stojan started off well with the Ma Bell phone analogy but then drifted off a bit into the old heart strings routine which, in all honesty, has been severely flogged to death over the years. One out of ten. Coach

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