Forum V: Archive
Compiled: Sat, Oct 21, 2000 at 20:59:31 (GMT)
From: Oct 13, 2000 To: Oct 20, 2000 Page: 4 Of: 5


The Enquirer -:- STARTLING REVELATIONS REVEAL M IS HUMAN! -:- Sun, Oct 15, 2000 at 01:52:33 (GMT)
__ dv -:- You must be very bored...(nt) -:- Sun, Oct 15, 2000 at 16:45:43 (GMT)
__ __ ev -:- dv-You must be extremely bored... -:- Sun, Oct 15, 2000 at 19:36:49 (GMT)
__ __ __ DV -:- dv-You must be extremely bored... -:- Mon, Oct 16, 2000 at 12:16:15 (GMT)
__ __ __ Selene -:- agreed ev -:- Mon, Oct 16, 2000 at 01:39:28 (GMT)
__ Steven Quint -:- STARTLING REVELATIONS REVEAL M IS HUMAN! -:- Sun, Oct 15, 2000 at 08:02:07 (GMT)

Steven Quint -:- More Good Words -:- Sun, Oct 15, 2000 at 01:35:46 (GMT)

Steven Quint -:- A Good Cult -:- Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 23:09:48 (GMT)

Cynthia -:- The yacht -:- Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 21:21:58 (GMT)
__ G -:- The yacht and the plane -:- Sun, Oct 15, 2000 at 16:43:31 (GMT)
__ __ jondon -:- The yacht and the plane -:- Mon, Oct 16, 2000 at 00:44:31 (GMT)
__ __ __ jondon -:- The above post is for Cynthia (nt) -:- Mon, Oct 16, 2000 at 00:45:58 (GMT)
__ __ G -:- another link -:- Sun, Oct 15, 2000 at 17:07:48 (GMT)
__ Jean-Michel -:- The yacht: it's been all saved here on EPO !! -:- Sun, Oct 15, 2000 at 10:00:42 (GMT)
__ __ G -:- The plane - FAA reg. info. -:- Sun, Oct 15, 2000 at 16:49:32 (GMT)
__ __ __ G -:- The yacht - delivery, customization, length -:- Sun, Oct 15, 2000 at 18:47:26 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ G -:- more -:- Sun, Oct 15, 2000 at 19:14:58 (GMT)
__ __ Cynthia -:- Many Thanks, Jean-Michel (nt) -:- Sun, Oct 15, 2000 at 15:38:28 (GMT)
__ suchabanana -:- The yacht: 2000 model at: westportyachtsales.com -:- Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 23:59:51 (GMT)
__ __ suchabanana -:- M's 106' yacht: US Coast Guard Documentation -:- Sun, Oct 15, 2000 at 00:10:05 (GMT)
__ __ __ suchabanana -:- M's 106' yacht: Rhode Island 2000 annual Report -:- Sun, Oct 15, 2000 at 00:13:46 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ suchabanana -:- m's 106' SERENITY data files - 'a dream come true' -:- Sun, Oct 15, 2000 at 00:22:59 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- Thanks! Got it...got to go (nt) -:- Sun, Oct 15, 2000 at 00:30:08 (GMT)

hamzen -:- So how many people are up for a party inthe UK?(ot -:- Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 19:44:59 (GMT)
__ cq -:- Like where and when? -:- Sun, Oct 15, 2000 at 16:50:10 (GMT)
__ AJW -:- Alas -:- Sun, Oct 15, 2000 at 16:09:39 (GMT)
__ selene -:- I wish -:- Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 20:42:17 (GMT)
__ JohnT -:- Me and MrsT! (nt) -:- Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 20:26:53 (GMT)

Steven Quint -:- My Favorite Prayer -:- Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 18:53:00 (GMT)
__ suchabanana -:- My Favorite Prayer -:- Tues, Oct 17, 2000 at 00:57:58 (GMT)

Steven Quint -:- Maharaji's Current World Tour -:- Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 18:12:57 (GMT)
__ Anarchist -:- Maharaji's Current World Tour - ex-premie version -:- Sun, Oct 15, 2000 at 01:47:02 (GMT)
__ __ cq -:- heh heh heh ... nice one, Anarchist! (nt) -:- Sun, Oct 15, 2000 at 16:58:29 (GMT)
__ __ __ Anarchist -:- Maharaji's toilet obsession -:- Sun, Oct 15, 2000 at 17:16:47 (GMT)
__ __ Steven Quint -:- Maharaji's Current World Tour - ex-premie version -:- Sun, Oct 15, 2000 at 08:33:00 (GMT)
__ __ __ Anarchist -:- Maharaji's Current World Tour - ex-premie version -:- Sun, Oct 15, 2000 at 09:51:14 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Steve Quint -:- Maharaji's Current World Tour And Love-Pulling -:- Sun, Oct 15, 2000 at 14:19:44 (GMT)

Steven Quint -:- Let's Start A Cookbook -:- Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 15:27:43 (GMT)
__ cq -:- and don't forget your pets ... -:- Sun, Oct 15, 2000 at 17:05:54 (GMT)
__ Helen -:- Let's Start A Cookbook -:- Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 16:37:20 (GMT)

shp -:- Nader packs Madison Square Garden (OT) -:- Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 14:51:04 (GMT)
__ G -:- Nader's skeleton closet (OT) -:- Mon, Oct 16, 2000 at 05:28:48 (GMT)
__ __ hamzen -:- Nice one g, shp still think nader's pure? -:- Mon, Oct 16, 2000 at 08:21:06 (GMT)
__ __ __ shp -:- You believe everything you read, ham and G? -:- Mon, Oct 16, 2000 at 12:27:15 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ G -:- Not EVERYthing -:- Mon, Oct 16, 2000 at 23:53:45 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ hamzen -:- Who said I believed it all shp, but no ??? at all? -:- Mon, Oct 16, 2000 at 14:14:57 (GMT)
__ G -:- League of Conservation Voters endorses Gore -:- Mon, Oct 16, 2000 at 05:01:11 (GMT)
__ gerry -:- I'm write-in voting for Ron Paul... -:- Sun, Oct 15, 2000 at 14:47:10 (GMT)
__ __ Jim -:- But the guy's a liar. Doesn't that mean anything? -:- Sun, Oct 15, 2000 at 16:41:29 (GMT)
__ __ __ gerry -:- I can sense you're stressing out -:- Sun, Oct 15, 2000 at 18:16:15 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Jim -:- Fuck off, Gerry (nt) -:- Sun, Oct 15, 2000 at 18:27:04 (GMT)
__ Bobby -:- bush and gore.... -:- Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 19:36:34 (GMT)
__ __ Jim -:- Great, they're coming in from the woodwork! -:- Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 21:25:26 (GMT)
__ Jim -:- It won't work, shp. Get lost (Back ON topic) -:- Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 15:49:32 (GMT)
__ __ janet of venice -:- OK-ON TOPIC:Hagelin is a TM cult undercover -:- Sun, Oct 15, 2000 at 09:11:01 (GMT)
__ __ __ Jim -:- I guess this should be expected -:- Sun, Oct 15, 2000 at 16:31:45 (GMT)
__ __ __ Stonor -:- TM cult's political activities in 80 countries -:- Sun, Oct 15, 2000 at 14:57:48 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ janet of venice -:- i need to get this to neale donald walsch.. -:- Mon, Oct 16, 2000 at 00:05:46 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Mickey the Pharisee -:- Geez, you'd think that God would tell Neale! nt -:- Mon, Oct 16, 2000 at 02:23:56 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Jim -:- Oh yeah? Tell us how your vote wasn't wasted -:- Sun, Oct 15, 2000 at 16:51:22 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Stonor -:- Excuse me? Can't you read?!!! (nt) -:- Sun, Oct 15, 2000 at 16:53:47 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Maybe not. Point me to the answer then (nt) -:- Sun, Oct 15, 2000 at 17:00:51 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Stonor -:- my riding always votes Liberal ... -:- Sun, Oct 15, 2000 at 17:10:28 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- So? What your'e really saying is that ..... -:- Sun, Oct 15, 2000 at 17:19:34 (GMT)
__ __ __ shp -:- reply to janet -:- Sun, Oct 15, 2000 at 14:18:28 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Jim -:- That's as stupid as everything else you say, shp -:- Sun, Oct 15, 2000 at 16:50:01 (GMT)
__ __ ExTex -:- YOU DO NOT SPEAK FOR ME!!! -:- Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 18:17:20 (GMT)
__ __ __ Jim -:- YOU DO NOT SPEAK FOR ME!!! -:- Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 20:14:51 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ ExTex -:- My answer, Jim. -:- Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 21:03:17 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ shp abuse patrol -:- ex tex -:- Tues, Oct 17, 2000 at 02:05:57 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Yeah, well just remember that two months from now -:- Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 21:23:09 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Spelling Bee -:- perogative? -:- Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 23:24:42 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Come on! Don't you really like my spelling more? -:- Sun, Oct 15, 2000 at 22:04:14 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ ExTex -:- Jim, Fair Enough...I'm warned. (nt) -:- Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 21:32:16 (GMT)
__ __ shp -:- Hey hypocrite, ignore me already!!! -:- Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 16:05:07 (GMT)
__ __ __ shp -:- Correction -:- Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 16:17:50 (GMT)
__ Jerry -:- Nader is a wasted vote -:- Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 15:49:01 (GMT)
__ __ ExTex -:- Nader is NOT a wasted vote -:- Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 18:28:45 (GMT)
__ __ __ shp -:- Nader is NOT a wasted vote -:- Sun, Oct 15, 2000 at 05:21:13 (GMT)
__ __ Helen -:- Nader -:- Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 16:22:09 (GMT)
__ __ __ Jim -:- Nader's scary too. Can't you see it? -:- Sun, Oct 15, 2000 at 17:23:11 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ shp -:- The 'humorless aesthetic' had people cracking up.. -:- Mon, Oct 16, 2000 at 12:53:42 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- YOU'RE unsafe at any speed, shp -:- Mon, Oct 16, 2000 at 17:41:26 (GMT)
__ __ __ ExTex -:- Nader -:- Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 18:42:30 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ G -:- and then what? -:- Mon, Oct 16, 2000 at 04:57:25 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Helen -:- Nader -:- Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 20:36:08 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ ExTex -:- How can someone win if ... -:- Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 21:06:43 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Katie -:- Pragmatic vs principled -:- Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 21:22:36 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ ExTex -:- Wise Katie -:- Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 21:43:23 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ G -:- a dangerous gamble -:- Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 22:06:46 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Katie -:- agree with G, ExTex -:- Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 22:22:54 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Bobby -:- agree with y'all -:- Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 22:46:22 (GMT)
__ __ __ shp -:- shrub -:- Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 17:51:23 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ G -:- So help defeat the shrub! (nt) -:- Mon, Oct 16, 2000 at 05:16:31 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Helen -:- shrub -:- Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 20:38:52 (GMT)
__ __ shp -:- If you were in charge, we'd still be in caves, or -:- Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 16:15:19 (GMT)
__ __ __ Jerry -:- If you were in charge, we'd still be in caves, or -:- Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 17:13:19 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ ExTex -:- If you were in charge, we'd still be in caves, or -:- Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 18:56:12 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ shp -:- If you were in charge, we'd still be in caves, or -:- Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 17:41:40 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Jerry -:- If you were in charge, we'd still be in caves, or -:- Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 18:15:36 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ ExTex -:- Spoken like a GUT Little German .... -:- Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 19:04:45 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jerry -:- Lighten up! -:- Sun, Oct 15, 2000 at 01:59:14 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ ExTex -:- Sorry Jerry -:- Tues, Oct 17, 2000 at 04:27:58 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Joe -:- The practical vote for Nader -:- Tues, Oct 17, 2000 at 14:14:40 (GMT)
__ __ __ Helen -:- If you were in charge, we'd still be in caves, or -:- Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 16:29:18 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ ExTex -:- we still are in caves, intellectually -:- Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 19:30:08 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Jerry -:- Vote for me!! -:- Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 17:17:34 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Bobby -:- this election -:- Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 16:52:56 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Katie -:- good post, Bobby -:- Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 21:38:22 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- good post, Bobby -:- Sun, Oct 15, 2000 at 19:15:35 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Katie -:- They ARE scary -:- Sun, Oct 15, 2000 at 21:05:26 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Bobby -:- seen any lately? -:- Sun, Oct 15, 2000 at 19:20:31 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- seen any lately? -:- Sun, Oct 15, 2000 at 20:30:53 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Do you actually believe this shit, Gerry? -:- Sun, Oct 15, 2000 at 21:20:44 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Nigel -:- David Icke is insane (even for a sports journo) nt -:- Mon, Oct 16, 2000 at 00:22:59 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- I don't know, I didn't read it... -:- Sun, Oct 15, 2000 at 22:56:39 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ ham -:- Your'e wicked you are :) (nt) -:- Mon, Oct 16, 2000 at 14:05:33 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ ham -:- I dunno, paedophilia/blondes, gm the reptile?? -:- Sun, Oct 15, 2000 at 22:56:18 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Monmot -:- Icke's on the money about Bush... -:- Sun, Oct 15, 2000 at 21:53:28 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Sometimes I have to remember what bar I'm in -:- Sun, Oct 15, 2000 at 22:01:34 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Monmot the Mookie -:- Starwars Bar, Right? -:- Sun, Oct 15, 2000 at 22:13:27 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Sounds like a bit of a Kodak moment, Monmot (nt) -:- Sun, Oct 15, 2000 at 22:31:08 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Monmot -:- Yeah, I should get sunglasses that remove red (nt) -:- Sun, Oct 15, 2000 at 22:59:23 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Bobby -:- seen any lately? -:- Sun, Oct 15, 2000 at 21:15:36 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Helen -:- Bobby/ExTex -:- Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 20:50:48 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ ExTex -:- Bobby/ExTex -:- Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 21:29:15 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ shp -:- If you were in charge, we'd still be in caves, or -:- Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 16:38:56 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Jerry -:- Now, you're talking! -:- Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 17:24:44 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ shp -:- Now, you're talking! -:- Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 17:55:28 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ ExTex -:- Vote Jerry, YES! -:- Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 19:38:47 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- I think you've bought a whole lot of nonsense, ExT -:- Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 20:18:11 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ ExTex -:- Well that was very mature, councilor. -:- Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 21:54:53 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Spelling? (nt) -:- Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 21:58:00 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ ExTex -:- Nit-picking? (nt) -:- Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 22:06:06 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Mickey the Pharisee -:- I learned my lesson in 1980 -:- Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 19:50:57 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ shp -:- I wonder how many sea critters had to crawl onto -:- Sun, Oct 15, 2000 at 05:41:45 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ ExTex -:- Clinton/Gore Are Responsible -:- Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 22:02:45 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Mickey the Pharisee -:- Clinton/Gore Are Responsible -:- Sun, Oct 15, 2000 at 02:25:54 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ shp -:- Clinton/Gore Are Responsible -:- Sun, Oct 15, 2000 at 05:44:08 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jerry -:- Clinton/Gore Are Responsible -:- Sun, Oct 15, 2000 at 13:24:52 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ shp -:- Clinton/Gore Are Responsible -:- Sun, Oct 15, 2000 at 14:02:01 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jerry -:- Clinton/Gore Are Responsible -:- Sun, Oct 15, 2000 at 18:02:07 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Michael -:- SHP, can't you remember anything? -:- Sun, Oct 15, 2000 at 17:49:45 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ shp -:- Seeking absolution and some gingko biloba -:- Mon, Oct 16, 2000 at 13:03:52 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Katie -:- Thank you Mickey - I agree! -:- Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 21:04:04 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Mickey the Pharisee -:- ¡Con mucho gusto! -:- Sun, Oct 15, 2000 at 02:30:37 (GMT)

cq -:- So M's message has 'always been the same' has it? -:- Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 13:09:11 (GMT)
__ Elaine -:- So M's message has 'always been the same' has it? -:- Sun, Oct 15, 2000 at 14:01:02 (GMT)
__ Coach -:- Other 'I am the law' quotes -:- Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 14:21:38 (GMT)
__ __ cq -:- ... and the law won? ;) (nt) -:- Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 14:23:37 (GMT)
__ __ __ Coach -:- Other 'and the law won' quotes -:- Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 14:26:47 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ cq -:- Reminds me of this one (very ot) -:- Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 14:40:39 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Coach -:- Many a true word...(nt) -:- Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 14:50:11 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Coach -:- Hey, CQ (tot) -:- Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 14:57:00 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ cq -:- Hey, CQ (tot) -:- Sun, Oct 15, 2000 at 16:55:11 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- Hey, Coach (tot) -:- Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 20:14:29 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Coach -:- Hey, Cynthia (tot) -:- Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 20:59:49 (GMT)

Steven Quint -:- A Wish -:- Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 11:36:47 (GMT)
__ Steven Quint -:- Another Wish -:- Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 11:39:33 (GMT)
__ __ Steven Quint -:- One More -:- Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 11:41:54 (GMT)

Cultbuster UK -:- A message from the British Government. -:- Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 09:47:22 (GMT)

X -:- beilef systems rule -:- Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 07:18:54 (GMT)
__ Hal -:- beilef systems rule -:- Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 09:29:06 (GMT)

Loaf -:- Photos of M -:- Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 06:27:17 (GMT)
__ Jerry -:- Tsk, tsk -:- Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 15:10:07 (GMT)

Salam -:- A passing thought. -:- Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 02:35:29 (GMT)
__ Salam -:- A second passing thought. -:- Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 15:30:20 (GMT)
__ AJW -:- Crime is the answer Salam -:- Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 09:17:28 (GMT)
__ __ Salam -:- Anth: u tryin to lead me astray or somethin -:- Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 15:20:36 (GMT)
__ __ __ AJW -:- Moi? -:- Sun, Oct 15, 2000 at 16:13:18 (GMT)
__ Loaf -:- Donations...Its the best way ! (NT) -:- Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 06:29:15 (GMT)
__ Katie -:- A passing thought. -:- Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 03:39:13 (GMT)
__ Helen -:- A passing thought. -:- Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 03:21:41 (GMT)
__ __ Katie -:- A passing thought. -:- Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 03:48:50 (GMT)
__ __ __ Helen -:- A passing thought. -:- Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 04:02:28 (GMT)
__ __ Salam -:- A passing thought. -:- Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 03:36:08 (GMT)
__ __ __ Cynthia -:- A passing thought. -:- Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 20:32:26 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Katie -:- A passing thought. -:- Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 22:41:24 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Bin Liner -:- A passing thought. and another -:- Sun, Oct 15, 2000 at 02:05:05 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Katie -:- A passing thought. and another -:- Sun, Oct 15, 2000 at 08:52:15 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Bin Liner -:- Yes, Trash Bag is correct ! nt -:- Sun, Oct 15, 2000 at 13:08:02 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Katie -:- 'Bin Liner' is far more sophisticated, though :)nt -:- Sun, Oct 15, 2000 at 18:43:46 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Salam -:- A quick passing thought -:- Sun, Oct 15, 2000 at 04:59:46 (GMT)


Date: Sun, Oct 15, 2000 at 01:52:33 (GMT)
From: The Enquirer
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: STARTLING REVELATIONS REVEAL M IS HUMAN!
Message:
It started off innocently enough, and then spread like a brushfire across a parched prairieland in the heat of summer.

It was first stated on a relatively unknown and obscure site on the internet,called Ex-Premie.Org. EPO is run by a small group of sniveling,ungrateful,hateful,small minded ex-devotees of the living lord who have the nerve to not recognize that he has given them the opportunity to surrender their lives to his holy lotus feet and remain in 'rawatistic bliss' for eternity.

The poster,shp, stated that maharaji was so human, that he openly admitted that he hated to shave in the morning because he sometimes cuts himself as he shaves.

That startling revelation set off a firestorm of debate that has literally scorched the net, as both premies and ex-premies alike take sides on the controversial issue and try to sort out the meaning and perhaps hidden meaning of maharaji's startling confession.

The 'Enjoying Life with Knowledge' site was quick to respond to the allegations. Marcia Leitner, on the board of Elan Vital, commented that 'it is sad but true, that our master has to stoop to such humiliating and degrading acts as to shave himself. I guess it just shows us all how really amazing it is to have a master who shows his humanity and gives us all a chance to care for him.'

While it has long been acknowledged that maharaji has servants to respond to his every desire, and that long time devotees have always brushed his teeth,combed his hair,wiped his ass,cut his nails, etc., it was never known before that maharaji actually had to endure the painful and humiliating task of shaving himself. 'It certainly does prove something to all those critics who have been saying that our master doesn't really level with them, doesn't it?' added Leitner.

Meanwhile,across town on the EPO site, long time critics were unavailable for comment,until newcomer TED Farkel commented: 'Well,frankly I don't know what to believe now. I'm kinda new to all this, but it was my sincere belief that Guru Maharaj Ji was in control of all levels of life...at least that was what I had read....so if this feller maharaji cuts himself shaving,what does that say about him running the whole universe?
Now don't get me wrong,I'm still in this for the long haul, but it does bring up some doubts....'

High level EV officials have already begun a new a fund raising effort to deal with the shaving issue. They are hoping to create a short video with clocks, swans,razor blades and a high pitched squeaky voice telling premies that it is time to synchronize so that world peace, or at least a good bottle of after shave lotion can be obtained. One EV insider confided that it may be tough to raise the $3,000,000 figure in a weekend, but that even half that amount would be good for starters...after all, we have to think about possible shaving accidents in limos,planes and yachts, as well as luxury suite hotels with Monica....there's a lot to take into consideration here...'

The debate rages on. One anonymous EV official commented:'thank God he just nicked his chin.Can you imagine if it was his toes?
Or how about his ass-we all love kissing it all the time, and if that's not available, what would we all do?'

EPO posters are in heated debate at this very hour,as many of the old timers are saying that they suspected it all the time, that maharaji was really just one of them, and 'playing god' all the time.'I'm gonna look at this real hard, and sort out all the facts, and then see what's going on in my heart' said TED Farkel.
'I'd hate to give up my beer and videos in the shop, and the eDrek 'boob fest' site, but it is bringing up some big time doubts for this ole country boy'.

Stay posted for further details.......

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Date: Sun, Oct 15, 2000 at 16:45:43 (GMT)
From: dv
Email: None
To: The Enquirer
Subject: You must be very bored...(nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Sun, Oct 15, 2000 at 19:36:49 (GMT)
From: ev
Email: None
To: dv
Subject: dv-You must be extremely bored...
Message:
why did you read it?
it's known as parody.
one needs a sense of humor to appreciate it.
write your own if you can do better.
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Date: Mon, Oct 16, 2000 at 12:16:15 (GMT)
From: DV
Email: None
To: ev
Subject: dv-You must be extremely bored...
Message:
First of all, I don't know that it's fiction until I open it up and read it.
I must admit, I like the true and juicy posts on this site. Look at Dettmers posts- 'fascinating.'
All right, I'll have to start contributing humorous AND true stories. Gimme a week or two.
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Date: Mon, Oct 16, 2000 at 01:39:28 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: ev
Subject: agreed ev
Message:
It's good to have pieces of fictional parady here. I think it makes the atmosphere lighten up and still gets a point across.
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Date: Sun, Oct 15, 2000 at 08:02:07 (GMT)
From: Steven Quint
Email: sequint@home.com
To: The Enquirer
Subject: STARTLING REVELATIONS REVEAL M IS HUMAN!
Message:
As a former disgruntled premie who has just seen the light and returned to the most blissful feet of our Lord, I am shocked and dismayed that you, an obviously deluded soul destined for the darkest reaches of Mordor, could have the gall to insinuate that our revered Maharaji, and I cannot even say it without shaking, cccccut hhhhimself sssshaving.

Even if you thought you heard this from his own pearly lips, you obviously were either in a toxically deluded state at the time, probably from the delayed aftereffects of hallucinatory drugs consumed in the 1960's, or you failed to understand that he was only telling that story to give us the bliss of thinking for a moment that he was actually human like us.

I will close by saying that you are putting yourself at grave risk of eternal damnation and worse for even thinking that our most saintly master has a body like we do.

I urge you to think about this, but I do fear that it won't make a difference anyway, as the die has been cast, the judgment set down.

With Great Trepidation At Considering Your Most Unenviable Fate,

Steve

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Oct 15, 2000 at 01:35:46 (GMT)
From: Steven Quint
Email: sequint@home.com
To: Everyone
Subject: More Good Words
Message:
Please see the definition and thesaurus entry for the word 'obsolete'.

All The Best,

Steve

P.S. Anybody in Vancouver want to go to a movie tonight?

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Date: Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 23:09:48 (GMT)
From: Steven Quint
Email: sequint@home.com
To: Everyone
Subject: A Good Cult
Message:
For those who love cults just can't bear to be without one, try a good cult.

Steve

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Date: Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 21:21:58 (GMT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: The yacht
Message:
Hello All,

Can someone please direct me to the site where the info is on the yacht? I can't seem to locate it.

My sister (never a premie) lives in Rhode Island and she has a digital camera. I spoke with her this morning about the yacht. In addition, her husband is an air traffic controller at the International Airport there (Tibbets).

Some thoughts about why R.I.:

1) Newport is the playground the rich and famous;
2) Navigating a yacht to the Grand Cayman Islands would be very easy for money laundering;
3) Perhaps a rich premie lives in Newport or owns one of those huge mansions (if you've never been there, it's an incredibly wealthy place); and
4) Even though private aircraft are usually directed to private spots at the airport (for the privacy of the aircraft owner, like John Travolta), I know my brother in law would take notice, and even make an effort to take some photos, or at least let me know if the hamster happens to 'drop in.'

Digital cameras are a great thing!!!

Best,
Cynthia

P.S. I'm dropping my Cynthia 'G'--pain in the butt.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Oct 15, 2000 at 16:43:31 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: The yacht and the plane
Message:
About his jet, it appears that at least until July, 1999 (see ACARS log) the n-number was N41PR and the serial number was 1226. I'm trying to verify whether the n-number is still N41PR (n-numbers can change *). I don't know if serial numbers can change. It was built in 1993, make/model is Gulfstream IV SP. Btw, it seats up to 22 (3 crew and 19 passengers).

* Based on a web search for N41PR, there was an entry for N41PR in the BIZ JET Register Update, but that web page has since changed. I don't know when the entry was there.

An unsolved question: Where in Newport is his yacht? Which marina would he probably use?

Here are some links about marinas in Newport:

Newport Rhode Island boating and marinas
Newport County Chamber of Commerce (see Business Links - Business Directory - Marina)
American Shipyard Corp
Newport Harbor Marina
Newport Yacht Club
Bannister's Wharf Marina
Conanicut Marina

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Date: Mon, Oct 16, 2000 at 00:44:31 (GMT)
From: jondon
Email: None
To: G
Subject: The yacht and the plane
Message:
The plane has been re-done inside. I believe its capacity is 12 people. Plus co-pilot, engineer and stewardess.

The yacht is probably not in Newport this time of year. But try Goat Island Marina in Newport.

I believe he keeps it in Ft. Laud. this time of year. Try Pier 66, Bahia Mar, or Bradfords Boatyard or Browards Boatyard in Ft. Laud. I'll put in a call to a friend down there to locate it. I'll be down there next month and will try to photo it.

Good luck,

jondon

things are getting quite interesting around here

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Date: Mon, Oct 16, 2000 at 00:45:58 (GMT)
From: jondon
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: The above post is for Cynthia (nt)
Message:
n
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Date: Sun, Oct 15, 2000 at 17:07:48 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: another link
Message:
Newport Yachting Center
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Date: Sun, Oct 15, 2000 at 10:00:42 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: The yacht: it's been all saved here on EPO !!
Message:
Everything about Mr Rawat's Yacht
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Date: Sun, Oct 15, 2000 at 16:49:32 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: The plane - FAA reg. info.
Message:
From AVweb U.S. Registered Aircraft Database and Aviation Enthusiast Corner - Civil Registration Number (N-Number) searches on N41PR (comments in parentheses added by me):

N-Number (civil registration number): N41PR

Serial number: 1226

Aircraft:
. manufacturer: Gulfstream Aerospace
. model: G-IV (more likely a G-IV SP, the FAA database doesn't seem to distinguish between the two)
. type: Fixed-wing multi-engine

Seats: 22 (allows for 3 crew and 19 passengers)

Year manufactured: 1993

Engines: 2

Engine:
. type: turbojet
. manufacturer: Rolls-Royce
. model: TAY 611-8
. thrust: 12,450 lb.

Weight: 28,000 lb.

Airworthiness class: Standard

Approved operations: Transport

Regigtration type: Corporation
Registrant:
Prime Resources LLC
510 West 4th Street
Carson City, NV 89702 US

FAA region: Western-Pacific

Registration date: 01-July-1994
Last activity date: 18-June-1997

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Date: Sun, Oct 15, 2000 at 18:47:26 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: The yacht - delivery, customization, length
Message:
There is conflicting info about how long 'Serenity' is.

The June 1997 issue of The Yacht Report says:

'Another 106 for Westship - Westship recently completed delivery of their latest 106, christened Serenity.'

I believe that Westship refers to Westship Yacht Sales of Ft. Lauderdale, Floria.

The Rainmaker model is 106', an example

The registration for 'Serenity' says it is 106' and that the former name was 'Westship One'.

Larry Smith Electronics (in Florida) says 'WESTSHIP ONE' is 112' at Listing of Custom Vessels.

Crown Ltd says 'Westship One' is 108' at Yacht Projects.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Oct 15, 2000 at 19:14:58 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: G
Subject: more
Message:
Here are more views of a 'Rainmaker' model yacht, which might be the type of Rawat's yacht:

. Rainmaker

What was it that Rawat said in the 'Peace Bomb' satsang, something like '... had I wanted to sleep on a luxurious bed ...'?

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Date: Sun, Oct 15, 2000 at 15:38:28 (GMT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Many Thanks, Jean-Michel (nt)
Message:
ny
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 23:59:51 (GMT)
From: suchabanana
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: The yacht: 2000 model at: westportyachtsales.com
Message:
westportyachtsales.com
[yacht brokerage:featured vessels]

1. go to: http://www.westportyachtsales.com
2. click: Yacht Brokerage
3. click: Featured Vessels
4. click: Westport Shipyard - 4th on the list: Motor yacht with pilot house - 112 foot
5. view details for year 2000 base model version of M.'s 'personal use' yacht , named 'Serenity' (formerly Westport One)
(Kathy Gliebe - director/officer Premo Marine, Inc.). Price does not include any probable custom modifications.

Also:

Purpose:  TO PURCHASE, MAINTAIN AND OPERATE, FOR THE PERSONAL USE OFTHE BENEFICIAL OWNERS, ONE OCEAN - GOING VESSEL.
General Information
Status:   Active
Charter: DBC
Chapter: TITLE: 7-1.1-51
State: RHODE ISLAND Duration:  PERPETUAL
File Date: 4/17/97
Effective Date:
Last Report Date: 4/10/00 Annual Report Image: 99Annual 00Annual
Sic Code: 6882--Other personal services
Authorized Shares: 1,000 $.01 PAR VALUE
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Business Address Agent Information Mailing Information
Premo Marine Inc.
2800 BANK BOSTON PLAZA
PROVIDENCE, RI 02903, USA
(401) 849-7800 LAURIE B. KIRBY, ESQ.
EDWARDS & ANGELL, LLP
2800 BANKBOSTON PLAZA
PROVIDENCE, RI 02903 USA
Agent is active... Registered office is maintained N/A
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Officer/Director/Partner/Manager Information Associated Names Information
Title: P
KATHLEEN M GLIEBE
516 NORTH PENNSFIELD PLACE, STE. 108
THOUSAND OAKS, CA 91360-, USA
* ACTUAL-Premo Marine Inc. 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
All Events Information

* CHRO-CHANGE OF REGISTERED OFFICE FILED  COMMENT: CHANGE OF REG. OFFICE FILED 01/26/98
* NEW-NEW CORPORATION CREATED  COMMENT: NEW CORPORATION CREATED

================================================================
Also:

http://204.17.95.02/web_activity_detail.asp?corp_id=94635&NAME=Premo%20Marine%20Inc.

Peace,

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Oct 15, 2000 at 00:10:05 (GMT)
From: suchabanana
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: M's 106' yacht: US Coast Guard Documentation
Message:
Vessel Name: SERENITY USCG Doc. No.: 1051618
Vessel Service: RECREATIONAL IMO Number: *
Hull Design: * Call Sign: *
Hull Material: FRP Hull Number: *
Place Built: WESTPORT WA Year Built: 1997
Shipyard: WESTPORT SHIPYARD INC Length (ft.): 106
Home Port: NEWPORT RI Gross Tonnage: 216
Owner: PREMO MARINE INC Net Tonnage: 172
130 Bellevue Avenue Hull Depth (ft.): 13.4
Newport, RI 02840 Hull Breadth (ft.): 22.7
Horsepower: *
Documentation Status: Currently Documented
Vessel Name History: Through:
WESTSHIP ONE June 30, 1997
No Vessel Owner Changes
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Oct 15, 2000 at 00:13:46 (GMT)
From: suchabanana
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: M's 106' yacht: Rhode Island 2000 annual Report
Message:
State of Rhode Island and Providence Plantations
Office of the Secretary of State
Profit corporation annual report for the year 2000
Filing Period: January 1 - March 1 * Filing fee: $50.00
1. Corporate ID No. 84635
2. Name of Corporation: Premo Marine Inc.
3. Street Address Principal Business Office:
2800 BankBoston Plaza
4. Business Phone No.: 409-849-7800
5. State of Incorporation: Rhode Island
6. SIC Code: 6882 [means 'other personal services']
7. Brief description of the charactoer of business conducted in Rhode Island: Maintaining and operating, for the personal use and beneficial owners, one ocean going vessel.
8. Names and addresses of the officers:
President: Kathleen M. Giebe
516 North Pennsfield Place, Suite 108
Thousand Oaks, CA 91360
Vice President: John K. Bale (same address)
9. Names and addresses of the directors:
Robert A. Jacobs
c/o Millbank, Tweed, 1 Chase Manhattan Plaza
New York, NY 10005
10. Shares authorized: 1,000 $.01 par value
11. Shares issued: 100 Common $.01
Signed by John K. Bale, Vice President/Treasurer, on 3/31/00
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Oct 15, 2000 at 00:22:59 (GMT)
From: suchabanana
Email: None
To: Cynthia et al
Subject: m's 106' SERENITY data files - 'a dream come true'
Message:
THE YACHT INFO:
westportyachtsales.com

[yacht brokerage:featured vessels]

1. go to: http://www.westportyachtsales.com
2. click: Yacht Brokerage
3. click: Featured Vessels
4. click: Westport Shipyard - 4th on the list: Motor yacht with pilot house - 112 foot
5. view details for year 2000 base model version of M.'s 106-8' 'personal use' yacht , named 'Serenity' (formerly Westship One)
(Kathy Gliebe - director/officer Premo Marine, Inc.). Price does not include any probable custom modifications (by Crown Ltd.).

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Also:

Purpose:  TO PURCHASE, MAINTAIN AND OPERATE, FOR THE PERSONAL USE OFTHE BENEFICIAL OWNERS, ONE OCEAN - GOING VESSEL.
General Information
Status:   Active
Charter: DBC
Chapter: TITLE: 7-1.1-51
State: RHODE ISLAND Duration:  PERPETUAL
File Date: 4/17/97
Effective Date:
Last Report Date: 4/10/00 Annual Report Image: 99Annual 00Annual
Sic Code: 6882--Other personal services
Authorized Shares: 1,000 $.01 PAR VALUE
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Business Address Agent Information Mailing Information
Premo Marine Inc.
2800 BANK BOSTON PLAZA
PROVIDENCE, RI 02903, USA
(401) 849-7800 LAURIE B. KIRBY, ESQ.
EDWARDS & ANGELL, LLP
2800 BANKBOSTON PLAZA
PROVIDENCE, RI 02903 USA
Agent is active... Registered office is maintained N/A
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Officer/Director/Partner/Manager Information Associated Names Information
Title: P
KATHLEEN M GLIEBE
516 NORTH PENNSFIELD PLACE, STE. 108
THOUSAND OAKS, CA 91360-, USA
* ACTUAL-Premo Marine Inc. 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
All Events Information
* CHRO-CHANGE OF REGISTERED OFFICE FILED  COMMENT: CHANGE OF REG. OFFICE FILED 01/26/98
* NEW-NEW CORPORATION CREATED  COMMENT: NEW CORPORATION CREATED
================================================================
Also: try this website address:

http://204.17.95.02/web_activity_detail.asp?corp_id=94635&NAME=Premo%20Marine%20Inc.

-------------------------------------------------------------------
US Coast Guard Documentation:

Vessel Name: SERENITY USCG Doc. No.: 1051618
Vessel Service: RECREATIONAL IMO Number: *
Hull Design: * Call Sign: *
Hull Material: FRP Hull Number: *
Place Built: WESTPORT WA Year Built: 1997
Shipyard: WESTPORT SHIPYARD INC Length (ft.): 106
Home Port: NEWPORT RI Gross Tonnage: 216
Owner: PREMO MARINE INC Net Tonnage: 172
130 Bellevue Avenue Hull Depth (ft.): 13.4
Newport, RI 02840 Hull Breadth (ft.): 22.7
Horsepower: *
Documentation Status: Currently Documented
Vessel Name History: Through:
WESTSHIP ONE June 30, 1997
No Vessel Owner Changes
---------------------------------------------------------------
State of Rhode Island and Providence Plantations
Office of the Secretary of State
Profit corporation annual report for the year 2000
Filing Period: January 1 - March 1 * Filing fee: $50.00
1. Corporate ID No. 84635
2. Name of Corporation: Premo Marine Inc.
3. Street Address Principal Business Office:
2800 BankBoston Plaza
4. Business Phone No.: 409-849-7800
5. State of Incorporation: Rhode Island
6. SIC Code: 6882 [means 'other personal services']
7. Brief description of the charactoer of business conducted in Rhode Island: Maintaining and operating, for the personal use and beneficial owners, one ocean going vessel.
8. Names and addresses of the officers:
President: Kathleen M. Giebe
516 North Pennsfield Place, Suite 108
Thousand Oaks, CA 91360
Vice President: John K. Bale (same address)
9. Names and addresses of the directors:
Robert A. Jacobs
c/o Millbank, Tweed, 1 Chase Manhattan Plaza
New York, NY 10005
10. Shares authorized: 1,000 $.01 par value
11. Shares issued: 100 Common $.01
Signed by John K. Bale, Vice President/Treasurer, on 3/31/00
------------------------------------------------------------
Peace,

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Date: Sun, Oct 15, 2000 at 00:30:08 (GMT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: suchabanana
Subject: Thanks! Got it...got to go (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 19:44:59 (GMT)
From: hamzen
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: So how many people are up for a party inthe UK?(ot
Message:
Quite up for it myself, could be a good laff, get some of those classic house tracks out and bring a few exes into the 21st century (only teasing, I think), but before hiring somewhere, sorting decks and lights out etc need to know if the numbers would justify it. If the numbers don't justify, does anyone have a place large enough who would be willing to risk it, we know what exes are like when they are off their heads, from the latvian nights!!

Somewhere that we could have a chill-out room to plot against big-boy would be cool, shit we could even have a rock room for the retro majority!

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Date: Sun, Oct 15, 2000 at 16:50:10 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: hamzen
Subject: Like where and when?
Message:
November 18 would suit me fine (me birfday).
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Date: Sun, Oct 15, 2000 at 16:09:39 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: hamzen
Subject: Alas
Message:
... I've moved over the pond ham', but would have been there for sure.

After seven months dedicated searching, I've found no Rai on Vinyl in Paris.

My big discovery has some brilliant African compilations CDs at £2.50 a hit, on Rendez-Vous label.

It looks like we may be moving up to the Netherlands soon- so maybe you could drag Jethro' over for a cultural weekend and Latvian night when we get a place.

Anth the Mobile Hedonist

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Date: Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 20:42:17 (GMT)
From: selene
Email: None
To: hamzen
Subject: I wish
Message:
I'd go right now if I could.
Have fun!!
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Date: Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 20:26:53 (GMT)
From: JohnT
Email: None
To: hamzen
Subject: Me and MrsT! (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 18:53:00 (GMT)
From: Steven Quint
Email: sequint@home.com
To: Everyone
Subject: My Favorite Prayer
Message:
Adir hu, adir hu,
yivneh veito b'karov.
Bimheira, bimheira,
b'yameinu b'karov.
Eil b'nei, eil b'nei,
B'nei veticha b'karov.

Translation On Website:

God of Might, God of right,
We would bow before you,
Sing Your praise in these days,
Celebrate your glory,
As we hear, year by year,
Freedom's wondrous story.

My Literal Translation:

He is Mighty, He is Mighty,
May He build his house soon,
Quickly, quickly,
In our time soon,
God please build, God please build,
Please build your house soon.

The language is Hebrew.

http://members.aol.com/porchfour/holidays/psvrsong.htm
http://ezra.mts.jhu.edu/~rabbiars/pesach/haggadah.html

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Date: Tues, Oct 17, 2000 at 00:57:58 (GMT)
From: suchabanana
Email: None
To: Steven Quint
Subject: My Favorite Prayer
Message:
Shema Yisrael
Adonai Ekbad
Adonai Elohinu

Peace,

da lil' swami s.

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Date: Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 18:12:57 (GMT)
From: Steven Quint
Email: sequint@home.com
To: Everyone
Subject: Maharaji's Current World Tour
Message:
You can see M's current schedulte at his site at Don't Click On This Link If You're Stomach Is Too Weak To Handle M's Website.

I'm wondering why he didn't include Haiti on the tour. It's probably not too late.

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Date: Sun, Oct 15, 2000 at 01:47:02 (GMT)
From: Anarchist
Email: None
To: Steven Quint
Subject: Maharaji's Current World Tour - ex-premie version
Message:
If you object to Maharaji's legal crap at the opening of his site, don't worry;

Click here for The Real Maharaji World Tour

and see the page as it really should be, with no legal warnings and only the truth.

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Date: Sun, Oct 15, 2000 at 16:58:29 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Anarchist
Subject: heh heh heh ... nice one, Anarchist! (nt)
Message:
AAAAAAAA
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Date: Sun, Oct 15, 2000 at 17:16:47 (GMT)
From: Anarchist
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: Maharaji's toilet obsession
Message:
Notice how Maharaji's obsession with toilets continues on this part of the site with the water pipe leading to the toilet bowl, clearly decorating this divine page.

Users of Maharaji's toilet site will notice that if they click on any of the links from my ex-premie version of the site, they won't have to read all of that legal mumbo jumbo to get into the site proper. Neither will any cookies be sent to their disk.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Oct 15, 2000 at 08:33:00 (GMT)
From: Steven Quint
Email: sequint@home.com
To: Anarchist
Subject: Maharaji's Current World Tour - ex-premie version
Message:
Have you considered offering your services to our esteemed, former Lord Of The Universe, former Perfect Master (last I heard still master though), former 'Guru Maharaji Is Greater Than God', according to him and/or his carefully selected Mahatmas, as tour synchronizer.

I think you are the obvious candidate for the job. I would suggest inserting Port Aux Prince, Haiti, in between Durban, South Africa and Kuala Lumpur, Malasia. I have heard that there are many thirsty people there, although, come to think of it, I am not completely sure what they are thirsty for. I think it is better to be safe than sorry, that is to say that Our Most Compassionate Lord must understand that the Haitians have never had the bliss of darshan and many of them are getting on in years and may never have the chance again.

I have heard that the Haitians and their most revered leader have very unique and unusual ways of showing hospitality to foreign guests, and that Maharaji would surely derive extreme excitement from experiencing such hospitality, not dissimilar to the great swooning ecstasy we all received in darshan lines around in world in the good old days.

I could continue to sing the praises of our most considerate lord and master for a few more hours, but I must catch up on my sleep as there is a satellite feed tomorrow which I would not miss for the world.

Steve

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Date: Sun, Oct 15, 2000 at 09:51:14 (GMT)
From: Anarchist
Email: None
To: Steven Quint
Subject: Maharaji's Current World Tour - ex-premie version
Message:
I'm sorry about this but I've just got word of two extra venues, so click here for the latest revised schedule of Maharaji's world tour.

As you know, Haiti did invite the speaker to come and speak but they were told that they didn't have enough love and since the speaker only goes to where the love pulls him, he is regetably, unable to go there.

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Date: Sun, Oct 15, 2000 at 14:19:44 (GMT)
From: Steve Quint
Email: sequint@home.com
To: Anarchist
Subject: Maharaji's Current World Tour And Love-Pulling
Message:
Dear Mr. Anarchist:

I have done extensive research since my last letter on love, and feel that I have some expertise in the area.

The following locations have risen to the top of the list in terms of Maharaji-pulling love:

Mogadishu, Somalia
Kigali, Rwanda
Grozny, Chechnia
Astana, Kazakhstan
Sarajevo, Bosnia and Herzegovina
Dushanbe, Tadzhikistan
Yerevan, Armenia
Goma, Zaire
Havana, Cuba
Bogota, Columbia
Panama City, Panama
Mould Bay, Northwest Territories, Canada
Arctic Bay, Nunavut, Canada
Barrow, Alaska

If citizens of other major love-pulling locations are reading this, please forgive me if I have left your city out of the list.

Maharaji has only been out of India for 29 years and so there is no way he could have visited every love-pulling area of the world in that time. Besides, he only responds to invitations sent in synchronicity with the love-pulling, so you must meet the second condition and send him an invitation. Don't worry, though, because surely with his sophisticated aviation equipment and the generous contributions of his devotees, his capacity to visit remote love-pulling places is increasing all the time.

And of course there's still the question of Haiti. I have learnt through research on the internet that South Africans and Haitians have a lot in common. They are sister countries in some ways. I think that visiting one without the other leaves a feeling of incompleteness in this long term, love-pulling devotee.

Until the next opportunity to synchronize, I remain,

Your Brother In The Love-Pulling,

Steve

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Date: Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 15:27:43 (GMT)
From: Steven Quint
Email: sequint@home.com
To: Everyone
Subject: Let's Start A Cookbook
Message:
Pilgrim’s Sandwich Spread

Back in the '50s :-), 'Prem', a Spam look-alike, published a recipe for a sandwich spread. It was good then, and better now that I make it with leftover ham, roast pork, roast beef, pot roasts, turkey or chicken. We pile it on lettuce leaves for a lo-carb lunch. Not bad for breakfast, either. Hope you like it.

Put through a food grinder (or a food processor) a pound of leftover meat, 2 carrots, a stalk of celery, 2 hard boiled eggs, a 2 ounce chunk of cheddar cheese (or jack or swiss, etc.), 2 dill pickles, a small onion. Blend in enough mayonnaise to bind (add mustard if you like).

Sounds awful, but this stuff is good! And depending on what meat and cheese you use, it is always a little different.

www.camacdonald.com/lc/Cookbook/Meat2.html

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Date: Sun, Oct 15, 2000 at 17:05:54 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Steven Quint
Subject: and don't forget your pets ...
Message:
We've seen the 'PREM' spam, and a good laugh it was too, but did you know that (at least here in the UK) there's a brand of dog food called 'PAL'?

Prolongs
Active
Live

(at least that's what the adman says).

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Date: Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 16:37:20 (GMT)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Steven Quint
Subject: Let's Start A Cookbook
Message:
God, it was a lot of work being a vegetarian! Seriously, honestly, I love vegetarian cooking. That spread sounds delicious. But who the hell has time? I try to cook like that maybe once a week, the rest of the time it's whatever my husband or I has the energy to cook. I need a housemother!
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Date: Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 14:51:04 (GMT)
From: shp
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Nader packs Madison Square Garden (OT)
Message:
Nader Rally in N.Y. Draws 15,000

By Beth Gardiner, Associated Press 10/14/00

NEW YORK (AP) - About 15,000 supporters packed a sold-out Madison Square Garden to voice their noisy enthusiasm for Green Party presidential candidate Ralph Nader, angrily criticizing his exclusion from the recent presidential debates and hailing him as a reinvigorating force for democracy.

The mostly 20- and 30-something crowd paid $20 each for tickets to the Friday night rally, billed as 'Nader Rocks the Garden.' They whooped as celebrities including Susan Sarandon, Tim Robbins, Michael Moore and Bill Murray heaped praise on Nader.

They grooved to musical performances by Pearl Jam's Eddie Vedder, Patti Smith, Ani DiFranco and Ben Harper, and raised the roof with a chorus of, 'Let Ralph Debate.'

'Welcome to the politics of joy and justice,' Nader said. 'We are building a historic, progressive, political movement in America; a movement for which Nov. 7th is just one stopping place.'

In an hour-long speech that at times sounded like a left-leaning history lesson, Nader assailed big business for what he called 'a corporate crime wave,' and said the Democratic and Republican parties were controlled by corporations. 'Our country has been sold to the highest bidder,' Nader said.

Concerning the environment, poverty, racism, workers' rights, defense spending and a slough of other issues, the lifelong consumer advocate accused politicians and business of failing the country. 'Corporations were designed to be our servants not our masters,' he said. 'We're going backwards, while the rich are becoming superrich.'

It was a different kind of political fund-raiser from the swank events often hosted by Democratic and Republican candidates, with the atmosphere of a rock concert rather than a political rally.

'You're not seeing black ties,' said Thomas King, 22, of White Plains. Although a Democrat, King promised to vote for Nader to send a message. 'I'm not too pleased with the fact that Clinton and the new Democrats have moved so close to the center. ... This is a populist movement.'

Cardboard boxes were passed through the crowd to collect donations.

Speakers assailed Texas Gov. George W. Bush and Vice President Al Gore as ideologically similar candidates in the pocket of corporate America. They said the two have similar views on trade, foreign policy and the war on drugs.

Filmmaker Moore urged the crowd not to worry that voting for Nader might help Bush by taking votes from Gore. 'The lesser of two evils, you still end up with evil,' Moore said. 'You don't make a decision because of fear: you make it on your hopes, your dreams, your aspirations. ... Follow your conscience.
Do the right thing.'

Read more at: www.votenader.com

Copyright 2000 The Associated Press

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Date: Mon, Oct 16, 2000 at 05:28:48 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: shp
Subject: Nader's skeleton closet (OT)
Message:
I'm no expert on Nader, but I don't buy this 'Saint Ralph' image. Here's a critical view of him:

. Ralph Nader's Skeleton Closet

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Date: Mon, Oct 16, 2000 at 08:21:06 (GMT)
From: hamzen
Email: None
To: G
Subject: Nice one g, shp still think nader's pure?
Message:
And while we're on it, even greenpeace is one of the least democratic org's going.

Anarchist/direct action, and consumer choice, is the only way, guerrilla raids.

How after all this time anti-establishment views can be put into supporting any leader is way beyond my imagination, but then anti's are often as naive as premies.

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Date: Mon, Oct 16, 2000 at 12:27:15 (GMT)
From: shp
Email: None
To: hamzen
Subject: You believe everything you read, ham and G?
Message:
and you call me naive?

Do you really expect Ralph to waltz through all this without having some mud slung his way too? Believe whatever you want.
I just spent yesterday listening to him in three speaking locations in NJ. He who has no enemies has no friends, said Shakespeare.

You see what some guy is allegedly doing to Dettmers, but you can't see what the machine is doing to Ralph....selective vision you have.

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Date: Mon, Oct 16, 2000 at 23:53:45 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: shp
Subject: Not EVERYthing
Message:
Do you think those rhetorical questions are clever?

I didn't say that I believed EVERYthing in 'Ralph Nader's Skeleton Closet'. I do believe that a good deal of it is true.

I do expect Nader to get some 'mud flung' his way, but calling it 'mud' doesn't mean it's false. Actually, I surprised he hasn't had more 'mud flung' his way. People make a big stink about Gore's scandals, but surprisingly little is said about Bush's and Nader's scandals. I think Bush's scandals are far more serious than Gore's, and it looks like Nader's had some also. So it's not a matter of choosing 'Saint Nader' over the two 'evils'. Don't you think it's a bit over the top for Nader to call them 'evil'? That seems to fit some of the descriptions of him in that expose.

As to 'what the machine is doing to Ralph', I wouldn't exactly call that web site 'the machine'. They trash ALL the candidates. I don't see 'the machine' (i.e. 'the establishment') doing much to Ralph.

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Date: Mon, Oct 16, 2000 at 14:14:57 (GMT)
From: hamzen
Email: None
To: shp
Subject: Who said I believed it all shp, but no ??? at all?
Message:
But he's got some serious explaining to do, there was some well documented stuff there, with a huge gap between the financial comments and naders own view, but having been around so-called caring org's and seen how they end up abusing their staff the most, there's something frighteningly deja vu about the comments about how he treats his own staff, with quotes from his own staff . Even if in your denial you won't look at the items seriously, he has responded to some of the accusations in a way which was no defence, and leads to raised eyebrows at the very least.

Anyway it's not about beliefs, but facts, but then when have you ever let facts stand in the way of beliefs?? I would love you to prove me wrong, even if this is the onlt SPECIFIC point you answer, which you never do.

But you're on an evangelical roll now, so nader's got to be perfect. You see there IS a difference between the message and the person, but as we already know you're incapable of making the distiction, and if you like the message you'll give the speaker any amount of slack, after all can't ruin the idealism eh.

The very idea of A leader around green issues is naively dangerous and completly counter to the message as well, but that's obviously way too deep for these discussions.

If green politics ever kicks in, it has to be truly democratic, grass roots and community based.
Direct action, lifestyle choices etc is the only way of challenging the system, but I guess you'd already know that if you'd been party to discussions in green groups over the years.

So without looking at the information, which is pretty well documented there, it's blanket blinkers denial time, and if bush gets in (god help us), will you write to all the people in the third world who suffer because it's him and not gore, apart from those in the us of a?. I thought not.

God hippies are SO dangerous, and I say that as someone who is one, and still struggles with it daily.

Never trust a hippy, never was a truer word said.

You just know it will all end in tears, ahh well, cest la vie, still you'll keep your idealism no matter what the cost eh!

By the way what did you think about jagdeo sitting upfront at the recent programme in India, anything to keep your rose tinted specs on eh shp!!!

You also don't address the fact that gm would see this all as a complete waste of time, only k & gm counts you know, or had you conveniently forgotten, and since I'm on gm again, what about dealing with your guru, the archetypal environment destroyer and non-public transport fella, who respects life?
Again you can't have your idealism sullied I bet!?

Also why is it, that those who profess the most committment to spiritual ideals, who have contact with a higher power are those least able to deal with this planet, when the reverse should be the case. As usual I don't expect an answer.

Your desperation to cling onto hope I can understand, but my god how dangerous it is.

Have a nice day you paedophile protector supporter you, keep dreaming.

My one premie contact is so like you it's frightening, she said to me this week when I asked her if there was anything gm could do that would maker her question him, I don't know.
I said 'even murder'. She says 'I don't know'.

The wonders of hippy rose tinted cult thinking.

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Date: Mon, Oct 16, 2000 at 05:01:11 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: shp
Subject: League of Conservation Voters endorses Gore
Message:
See the League of Conservation Voters

. endorses Gore

. Endorsed Candidates

. Campaign 2000

. Gore vs. Bush on the Environment

As to the Democrats and Republicans being basically the same, that's nonsense. Check out LCV's scorecard. Their analysis on voting records (a higher pct. is better):

. House - Democrats - 78%
. House - Republicans - 16%

. Senate - Democrats - 76%
. Senate - Republicans - 13%

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Date: Sun, Oct 15, 2000 at 14:47:10 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: shp
Subject: I'm write-in voting for Ron Paul...
Message:
By Ron Paul:

The other day, I made a huge 'gaffe' on national television, I told the truth about the crimes of the U.S. Government.

As you can imagine, the ceiling fell in, and a couple of walls too. Congressman are supposed to support the government, I was told. 'Oh, it's okay to criticize around the edges but there are certain subjects a member of the House of Representatives is not supposed to bring up.'

I was interviewed on C-SPAN's morning Washington Journal, and I used the opportunity, as I do all such media appearances, to point out how many of our liberties have been stolen by the federal government. If we stuck to the Constitution as written, we would have no federal meddling in our schools, no Federal Reserve, no U.S. membership in the UN, no gun control, and no foreign aid. We should have no welfare for corporations or the 'poor,' no American troops in 100 foreign countries, no NAFTA, GATT or 'fast-track,' no arrogant federal judges usurping states' rights, no attacks on private property and no income tax. We could get rid of most of the cabinet departments, most of the agencies and most of the budget. The government would be small, frugal and limited.

That system is called liberty. It's what the Founding Fathers gave us. Under liberty, we built the greates, freest, most prosperous, most decent country on earth. It's no coincidence that the monstrous growth of the federal government has been accompanied by a sickening decline in living standards and moral standards. The feds want us to be hamsters on a treadmill - working hard, all day long to pay hight taxes, but otherwise entirely docile and controlled.

Well, I'm sorry, but that's not America. It's not what the founding fathers gave us.

So, on that TV interview, I emphasized not only the attacks on our property, but also the decline of our civil liberties at the hands of the federal police. There are not supposed to be any federal police according to the Constitution.

Then I really went over the line. I talked about the Waco massacre. Bill Clinton and Janet Reno claim those 81 men, women, and children, burned down their own church and killed themselves, and good riddance. So, they put a few survivors on trial and threw them in prison for 40 years.

We're not supposed to remember that the Bureau of alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms - talk about an unconstitutional Agency - rather than arrest David Koresh on his regular morning jog, called in the TV stations for a big publicity bonanza and sent a SWAT team in black masks and black uniforms to break down his front door, guns blazing. They also sent in a helicopter gunship to shoot at the roof of a church full of innocents.

The Branch Davidians resisted, and after a heartless siege of almost two months, and after cutting off food, water and electricity, and playing horrible rock and roll through huge speakers 24 hours a day, the feds sent in the tanks to crush the walls of the church, and inject poisonous CS gas.

Now, CS gas is banned under the Paris Convention on Chemical Warfare. The U.S. could not use it in a war. But it could and did use it against American civilians.

After the tanks did their work on the church, the place burst into flames and all 81 people - men,women, children and babies - were incinerated in screaming horror.

Did some feds set the fire? Did flammable CS gas ignite, since without electricity, the parishioners were using lanterns? striking one of the bales of hay being used against the thin walls as a 'defense' against bullets? Or did the Davidians, as Clinton and Reno claim, kill themselves?

Whatever the truth, there's no question that an irresponsible federal government has innocent blood on its hands.

In my interview, in answer to a caller's question, I pointed out that Waco, and the federal murders at Ruby Ridge, Idaho, especially the FBI sniper's shot that blasted apart the head of a mother holding her baby, caused many Americans to live in fear of federal power.

Then I uttered the sentiments that caused the media hysteria. I said that a lot of Americans fear that they too might be attacked by federal SWAT teams for exercising their Consitutional rights or merely for wanting to be left alone.

You've never seen anything like it. For days, in an all-out assault, I was attacked by Democrats, big business, establishment Republicans, and of course, the media in Washingon - and my home state of Texas.

Newspapers foamed at the mouth, calling me a 'right-wing extremist.' (Say, isn't that what George III called Thomas Jefferson?'

I was even blamed for the Oklahoma City bombing. And by the way, I don't believe we've gotten the full truth on that, either.

All my opponents were outraged that a congressman would criticize big government. 'If you don't like Washington, resign,' said a typical big city newspaper editorial.

But the media, as usual, were all wet. Do they ever get anything right? The average congressman may go to Washington to wallow in power and line his pockets with a big lobbying job for special interest - so he can keep ripping off the taxpayers.

But that's not why I'm in Congress. It's not why I left my medical practice as a physician. It's not why I refuse a plush congressional pension.

I'm in this fight for a reason. I will not let the crooks and clowns and criminals have their way. I'm in Congress to represent the ideas of liberty, the ideas that you and I share, for the people of my district, for the people of Texas, for the people of America. That's why I'm working to stop federal abuses and to cut the government - its taxes, its bureaucrats, its paramilitary police, its spending, its meddling overseas and every single unconstitutional action it takes.

Not much of the federal leviathan would be left, if I had my way. But you'd be able to keep the money you earn, your privacy would be secure, your dollar would be sound, your local school would be tops and your kids wouldn't be sent off to some useless or vicious foreign war to fight for the U.N.

When I say cut taxes, I don't mean fiddle with the code. I mean abolish the income tax and the IRS and replace them with nothing.

Recently, I asked a famous Republican committee chairman, who is always talking about getting rid of the IRS, why he engineered a secret $580 million raise for the tax collectors.

'They need it for their computers,' this guy told me. So the IRS can't extract enough from us as it is?

I won't play the Capitol Hill games with the Capitol Hill gang, denouncing the IRS while giving the Gestapo more of your money. Or figuring out some other federal tax for them to sqeeze out of you.

I also want to abolish the Federal Reserve and send Alan Greenspan out to get a job.

The value of our dollar and the level of our interest rates are not supposed to be manipulated by a few members of the power elite meeting secretly in a marble palace.

The Federal Reserve is unconstitutional, pure and simple. Without the Federal Reserve, our money could not be inflated at the behest of big govenment or big banks. Your income and savings would not lose their value.

Just as important, we wouldn't have this endless string of booms and busts, recessions and depressions, with each bust getting worse.

I also work to save our schools from D.C. interference. Not only do the feds' new curriculae smear the Founders as 'racist, slave-owning elitists,' they seek to dumb down our students so they will all be equal. 'Look-say' reading and the abolition of phonics has the same purpose, and so does the new 'fuzzy' math, in which there are no right and wrong answers.

But ever since the beginning of federal aid to education and accelerating with the establishment of the rotten Department of Education, SAT scores have been dropping. Schools, with very few exceptions, are getting worse every year. To save our kids, we must get the sticky fingers of the feds off our local schools, and let parents rule.

And then there's my least favorite topic: the UN. World government is obviously unconstitutional. It undermines our country's sovereignty in the worst way possible. That's why I want us out of the U.N, and the U.N itself taking a hike.

After all, the UN is socialist, and corrupt. Many votes can be bought with a 'blonde and a case of scotch,' one UN ambassador once said. It costs many billions' and it puts our soldiers in UN uniforms under foreign commanders, and sends them off to unconstitutional, undeclared wars.

When Michael New, one of the finest young men I've ever met, objected to wearing UN blue, he was kicked out of the Army.

Not one dime for the UN, and not one American soldier. Not in Haiti, not in Bosnia, not in Somalia, not in Rwanda. I know it's radical, but how about devoting our efforts to defending America, and only America?

_____

Rep. Ron Paul is a Republican, congressman from the 14th district in Texas

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Date: Sun, Oct 15, 2000 at 16:41:29 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: But the guy's a liar. Doesn't that mean anything?
Message:
He's lying about Waco to start with. That issue has been tested, tested and tested. Only an irrational conspiracy nut ('CN') would maintain the anti-government spin on that matter in the face of the recent litigation.

Why do I say that? Because no evidence is ever good enough to dislodge a CN's faith in a pet theory. Forget about the fact that in order to maintain the Gov't massacre notion at this point one would have to then bring a whole new level of people into the conspiracy -- all of the courts, judges, lawyers, even jurors, I guess, who threw the CN's case out. That's just fun for a good CN.

'What? All the evidence points against me? Alright!!'

Because there's the proof, after all, that a) it must be a really good conspiracy, a juicy, fat one, even, because look how adept they are at orchestrating the deception; and b) look how clever I am for being able to see through the fucker in spite of the many, clever, clever -- but not too clever for me! -- gov't operatives, Illuminati, jews and aliens working together to fool us all.

But then there's rationality.

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Date: Sun, Oct 15, 2000 at 18:16:15 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: I can sense you're stressing out
Message:
Relax, it's all gonna be OK...
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Date: Sun, Oct 15, 2000 at 18:27:04 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Fuck off, Gerry (nt)
Message:
ffffff
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Date: Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 19:36:34 (GMT)
From: Bobby
Email: None
To: shp
Subject: bush and gore....
Message:
Bush and Gore
Sex and violence in America :=)
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Date: Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 21:25:26 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Bobby
Subject: Great, they're coming in from the woodwork!
Message:
Great analysis, Bobby!

How's the self-righteous meter? You must feel VERY, VERY proud of yourself being so far above the common man in politics.

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Date: Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 15:49:32 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: shp
Subject: It won't work, shp. Get lost (Back ON topic)
Message:
No one wants you here. Isn't that obvious? And no, trying to find 'OT' friends to cozy up with won't work. Just get going. Come on, get it over with. Go.
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Date: Sun, Oct 15, 2000 at 09:11:01 (GMT)
From: janet of venice
Email: None
To: Jim at al
Subject: OK-ON TOPIC:Hagelin is a TM cult undercover
Message:
you wanna bitch about shp bringing up the elections as if they're off topic? let me spin you around and pop your suit buttons, Jim: i went to an evening with John Hagelein hosted by Neale Donald Walsch (he of the 4 conversations with God bestsellers.) I got to hagelin and monopolized his time for a good 20 minutes afterwards. He is the Natural Law Party's candidate for president. a Nuclear physicist, preternaturally calm and soft spoken. the party line sounds so good. we have to face the natural limits and principals of reality or we are going to extinct the race. ooo, sounds damned persuasive. i almost bought it.
then bells started ringing. wait a minute. think. think. omigod, now i remember.
TM. Maharishi. take over the world. oh god. hagelin is a TM old timer. i went back and asked him how many years its been. he candidly grinned and said he started TM in 1972. hey, me too. what date? oh, that summer. shoot-I'm older than you are, John. i gotcha beat by one season. you still into it? sheepish smile, averted gaze, yeah...ok--I just wondered. see ya.
and i went out in the lobby and went memory swimming. The TM people made a world plan to get into every possible niche of influence and take over, no matter how long it took. Deepak Chopra is a TM'er. we all remember the Beatles and that whole time. Fool on the Hill and Sexy Sadie were written at Maharishi when john and paul became TM ex's. i would venture to say that maharishi, thru the Beatles global publicity to their fans, made a brilliant global PR coup and opened the door to our very own GOOROO being able to come west and gather up suckers for the taking.
thing is, maharishi aint finished yet. Hagelin is a bona fide third party candidate, an alternative to Nader, who is waging an equally strong campaign to get the debates opened and the process fairly conducted again. A valid fight, as far as that goes. but i wanted you to be warned: the Natural Law Party, while all it stands for, sounds sooooo clean and good, is the brainchild of TM followers, and is one of their plans to get TM into all the power offices of the world wherever they can. It is deeply buried and almost hidden in Hagelin's campaign, but at the very end, you will find it tucked away in a proposed program to bring meditation into the schools, prisons and probably into congress.

so---- for once in your juridical life, Mr Heller, I sternly advise you, to button that hairtrigger lip, instead of your 3 piece suit, and pay attention. I get real tired of you, always shouting 'OBJECTION!', and grandstanding, as if you were trying to distract the judge. There is no Judge on the bench, here, Jim.
There's Just us,bringing what we know to the table. If you want to impress a judge,Jim, then get to it. Go file a lawsuit against the butterball! We're waiting. Use your law where it'll matter!

and the elections may well be on topic. the next prez sets the tone for where the money goes.and where it doesn't. you can bet MJ is republican. reagan gave us mass homelessness, iran contra, the crack epidemic. bushdaddy gave us the gulf war and 'the economy is in free fall'. look around you. it affects us, it affects him, it affects others.
shp isnt trying to convert us back to how we used to think. he's bringing interesting stuff in from the real world, that he wants to share, if we still have the hopes of pursuing to try to make the world a better place. MJ hijacked that faith and tried to con us into putting all our effort into him, telling us he had the way to take us there--but he didnt. and coming out, the work still awaits, where we left it.
ya know. Jim? sometimes your yelling at shp or whoever to stay on topic reminds me of the bad old days, when everybody was always cutting into our personal conversations and individual trains of valid thought, and admonishing us not to waste our time on CHITCHAT!!! Get back to focusing on Maharaji!Focus your mind on the form.....
i thought we were supposed to be able to breathe freely here! you know--speak our MINDS? talk about all those forbidden subject that we were kept from discussing while 'under his lotus feet'? You sound like some stick up the ass nazi housefather, lowering the boom!
You need to go think about yourself, brother.

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Date: Sun, Oct 15, 2000 at 16:31:45 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: janet of venice
Subject: I guess this should be expected
Message:
Of course the Natural Law Party is the Maharishi Party. That's old news, Jaent. At least here in Canada it is. But 'bona fide third party'? Like someone's supposed to pay it some attention or something?

Anyway, don't know what you're bitching at me about. Maybe you could explain yourself clearer?

But I'll say the same thing to you that I did to ExTex, you want shp, you got him. But just remember that that was your vote back on Oct 15, 2000.

You guys are too much. shp has no reasno to be here except to pontificate like the dried-up old hippie he is. Trouble is, some of his OT bullshit rings the old hippie bells in exes and, next thing you know, shp, who was getting the bums' rush he deserves (my prediction is that you'll agree soon enough) starts playing some cliched, sanctimonious 'save the world' stuff (ask him about the 'witto witto wuns'!) and everyone opens their hymnals and sings along.

And as if it wasn't a little obvious that shp was doing this.

Fine. But remember this when you're pulling your hair out at his posts and wondering how in the world this idiot ever got the impression he was welcome here.

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Date: Sun, Oct 15, 2000 at 14:57:48 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: janet of venice
Subject: TM cult's political activities in 80 countries
Message:
Hi Janet,

What a great post, as all yours are. I thought some people might be interested in learning a bit more about the Natural Law Party, active in 80 (!!!) countries.

Natural Law Party

Natural Law Party UK

Natural Law Party Canada (Through our scientifically validated programs, national life will be brought into harmony with Natural Law, and every Canadian will enjoy peace, happiness and prosperity. Those who want an alternative approach to preserving the unity of Canada are invited to learn Yogic Flying and experience bubbling bliss while creating harmony in national consciousness.)

I was actually one of less than 50 people in my riding who voted for them in a provincial election a few years ago. I hadn't wanted to vote at all - my riding always votes Liberal in 'landslide' numbers and Quebec politics can be a bit trying at times. I should also mention that the Canadian voting system is different from that of the US, and it was not in any way a 'wasted' vote. I recently learned more about The Natural Law Party through a link I found at FV, and will never vote for them again for ANY reason. (I think the Rhinocerous Party is defunct, but there is always something if I feel the need to get a laugh out of grim reality ;-)

Hagelin and TM expose (thorough -lots of good links here, one of them below)

Annie's story
(In the 1980s' German Study and Kropinski trial, outsiders got their first hint that all was not well with the children of the TM Movement. For the first time we heard stories of parental neglect, child abuse, and autistic-like symptoms. In the late 80s, The Illustrated Weekly of India published allegations of wide-spread child abuse on the Maharishi's personal compound in Noida, India.)

Thanks again, Janet.

Stonor


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Date: Mon, Oct 16, 2000 at 00:05:46 (GMT)
From: janet of venice
Email: None
To: Stonor
Subject: i need to get this to neale donald walsch..
Message:
and mariann williamson. theyre stumping around the country with hagelin and dont know what they've been taken in by.
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Date: Mon, Oct 16, 2000 at 02:23:56 (GMT)
From: Mickey the Pharisee
Email: None
To: janet of venice
Subject: Geez, you'd think that God would tell Neale! nt
Message:
I guess those conversations don't contain real useful information.
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Date: Sun, Oct 15, 2000 at 16:51:22 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Stonor
Subject: Oh yeah? Tell us how your vote wasn't wasted
Message:
This should be good.
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Date: Sun, Oct 15, 2000 at 16:53:47 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Excuse me? Can't you read?!!! (nt)
Message:
aaaaaaaaaaaasssssssssss
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Date: Sun, Oct 15, 2000 at 17:00:51 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Stonor
Subject: Maybe not. Point me to the answer then (nt)
Message:
gggg
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Date: Sun, Oct 15, 2000 at 17:10:28 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: my riding always votes Liberal ...
Message:
... my riding always votes Liberal in 'landslide' numbers

and that election was no different.

I live in a predominantly English-speaking part of Montreal. Heard anything about Quebec politics, Jim? Remember, the party in power here is the Parti Quebecois - the Conservatives have been basically a write-off in Quebec politics.

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Date: Sun, Oct 15, 2000 at 17:19:34 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Stonor
Subject: So? What your'e really saying is that .....
Message:
your vote was worthless to begin with, right?
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Date: Sun, Oct 15, 2000 at 14:18:28 (GMT)
From: shp
Email: None
To: janet of venice
Subject: reply to janet
Message:
Janet,

I don't want to belabor the point, but I do appreciate your strong, well-spoken and points-well-taken contribution to the conversation and how you see my involvement here.

Also, I was not aware of Hagelin's part in TM. The fruit of a long-term plan to 'rule the world' is not a stretch of the imagination to me either. Only they see it, I am sure, as 'saving the world', not ruling it. In theory, I don't see anything inherently wrong with teachers, schoolkids and members of Congress meditating, but the form and techniques and who controls all that would be the subject of fearful and suspicious talk for a very long time before anything even remotely resembling this would take effect.

I really think Ralph is 'string' free as in having no strings attached to him that could control him and shape his agenda.
shp

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Date: Sun, Oct 15, 2000 at 16:50:01 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: shp
Subject: That's as stupid as everything else you say, shp
Message:
The Natural Law Party is no less nor more than the Transcendental Meditation Party. It's their agenda, their candidates, their money, their control. The only reason for the NLP is to further the goals, whatever they may be, of TM.

Face it, shp. You've been fooled again.

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Date: Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 18:17:20 (GMT)
From: ExTex
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: YOU DO NOT SPEAK FOR ME!!!
Message:
Jim I think you have gone way to far with your self righteous ASSUMPTION THAT YOU SPEAK FOR EVERYONE ON THE FORUM!! IT IS OBVIOUS FROM READING THE THINGS THAT YOU POST THAT YOU THINK THAT YOU ARE THE IDEOLOGICAL BEDROCK OF FORUM V.

WHY ISN'T IT CALLED THE JIM HELLER FORUM????

Back off! You DO NOT SPEAK FOR ME! AND ACCORDING TO THE FORUM RULES I HAVE EVERY RIGHT TO BE HERE AS YOU DO!

You speak for Jim Heller and use the forum to try to fine tune your argueing skills for your legal profession...or so it seems at times.

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Date: Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 20:14:51 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: ExTex
Subject: YOU DO NOT SPEAK FOR ME!!!
Message:
Okay, fine, just tell me this. Do you want shp here? Yes or no?

Simple question. What's your answer?

And as for the legal bullshit, fuck off. Thats' just a very dumb thing to say. Really to dumb to asnwer but, well, I'm answering it.

So anyway, yeah, maybe I'm wrong. You want shp here? If so, why?

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Date: Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 21:03:17 (GMT)
From: ExTex
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: My answer, Jim.
Message:
You may have some past experiences with him that have formed your opinion of him. But since I have been reading his posts I think that he has been civil (as anyone else on this forum) and has not (of recent) broken any of the forum rules.

I have strongly disagreed with him right on this forum and he has disagreed with me. But he hasn't been a pain in the ass about harangueing us with satsang....ala shroom...and you can just skip his posts if you aren't interested in what he says. He hasn't created any unreasonable hubbub so why the animosity???

The forum says it is open to EVEN premies (which we all once were) as long as they abide by the few rules. Until that is changed or he becomes a royal pain in the ass....
what's the beef???

And I have clearly stated to him that his participation here could very well be the beginning of the long process of deprogramming....testing the waters....waking-up...EXING!

(And as far as the shot at you 'about practising your legal talents here' ....well I apologize....but Jim, you sometimes do come off as if when someone says 'white'...You gotta jump in with an emphatic 'BLACK'. Don't get me wrong....I generally enjoy reading your stuff.)

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Date: Tues, Oct 17, 2000 at 02:05:57 (GMT)
From: shp abuse patrol
Email: None
To: ExTex
Subject: ex tex
Message:
'could very well be the beginning...'
After years of him wasting our time and efforts, we know better.
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Date: Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 21:23:09 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: ExTex
Subject: Yeah, well just remember that two months from now
Message:
Every ex here has gotten completely fed up with shp over time. I can't think of a single exception.

Fine, so you're not there yet.

But don't look for any support from me when you do think that way. Shp's all yours, ExTex. I'm sure you guys have a lot to talk about.

But will I continue to try to remind him that he's a blight on reason here? Maybe. My perogative.

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Date: Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 23:24:42 (GMT)
From: Spelling Bee
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: perogative?
Message:
PREROGATIVE
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Date: Sun, Oct 15, 2000 at 22:04:14 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Spelling Bee
Subject: Come on! Don't you really like my spelling more?
Message:
Yes, yes, 'prerogative' .... but you can't honestly say that you actually like that word spelled like that, can you?

And here I was just trying to help ....

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Date: Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 21:32:16 (GMT)
From: ExTex
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Jim, Fair Enough...I'm warned. (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 16:05:07 (GMT)
From: shp
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Hey hypocrite, ignore me already!!!
Message:
To the biggest toad in this pond, or at least the one with the most warts and the loudest croak,

Just because you post with ulterior motives, such as to boost your ego and practice being verbally abusive for your work, don't assume that I or anyone else functions like you. I don't need to cozy up to anybody. If it happens, it happens, that's not something that can be manufactured, you stupid jerk.

I'm just spreading the word to any USA premies who might be interested in Ralph Nader, no more no less.

If it's OK to tell you to go f*ck yourself without breaking
current Forum rules, then please do so. If it's not cool, then please diregard this last paragraph.

You are living proof that, as Alexander Pope said,
'A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.'

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Date: Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 16:17:50 (GMT)
From: shp
Email: None
To: jim
Subject: Correction
Message:
The information is for EVERYONE. I had said that I was posting to 'any USA premies'....actually I am posting this to any USA
citizens who can vote, regardless of any other affiliations.
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Date: Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 15:49:01 (GMT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: shp
Subject: Nader is a wasted vote
Message:
Filmmaker Moore urged the crowd not to worry that voting for Nader might help Bush by taking votes from Gore. 'The lesser of two evils, you still end up with evil,' Moore said. 'You don't make a decision because of fear: you make it on your hopes, your dreams, your aspirations. ... Follow your conscience.
Do the right thing.'

The right thing, IMHO, is to make your vote count for something. If you want Nader as president, fine, he's going to lose. But if you prefer Gore to Bush, even just a teensy bit, then vote for him, especially if you dread Bush taking office.

Voting for Nader is just plain stupid.

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Date: Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 18:28:45 (GMT)
From: ExTex
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: Nader is NOT a wasted vote
Message:
A wasted vote is a vote that is cast that does not reflect the real convictions of the person who casts the vote! Pure and simple! Then it is a vote cast for what SOMEONE ELSE wants!

Listen to yourself... you are are saying to millions of people...don't vote for the candidate you believe in because SOMEONE ELSE is not going to vote for him/her!!!!

THAT IS NOT DEMOCRACY NOR IS IT WHAT VOTING IS SUPPOSED TO BE ABOUT! The next step from that is quite obviously...do not vote at all because if you do you will be voting for one of the corporate hacks being run for office by the Corporate Republic's Monoculture Party....Republicrats!

VOTE YOUR CONSCIENCE! OR YOU TRULY WASTE YOUR VOTE! WAKE-UP!

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Date: Sun, Oct 15, 2000 at 05:21:13 (GMT)
From: shp
Email: None
To: ExTex
Subject: Nader is NOT a wasted vote
Message:
Bravo!
It's mind control, pure and simple, that tries to convince us to vote other than our conscience. And not that well disguised either, only in a shroud of fear. More power to the truth being told of how people really feel.
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Date: Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 16:22:09 (GMT)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: Nader
Message:
I agree that it is a wasted vote, Jerry, but Nader is terrific! He is so refreshing in his rumpled old suits, carrying a manilla accordian file instead of a briefcase. And, of yeah, he's really smart too, and I agree with his ideas. I admire the heck out of him, and would love to vote for him. But I don't think either Bush or Gore is 'evil' BTW, but Bush *IS* definitely NOT presidential material. I do NOT want him to win. And Gore would make a good president, nuff said. I am casting my vote for Gore cause I don't want Bush to be Prez.

ANyone else here think Bush is just a little too proud of how Texans have died in the electric chair because of him (I am against the death penalty). Anyone else find it ironic that folks in Texas are still in jail due to stiff jail sentences for drug possession and Bush was a little druggie himself at one point?

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Date: Sun, Oct 15, 2000 at 17:23:11 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Helen
Subject: Nader's scary too. Can't you see it?
Message:
Do you really have that much trust in ANY man? Nader's values are weird. He's a humourless aesthetic and yes, I have to admit, that scares me. Give this guy too much power and who knows what would happen?

Well, of course, THAT won't happen so who cares?

But both major candidates suck. All the reasons previously stated.

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Date: Mon, Oct 16, 2000 at 12:53:42 (GMT)
From: shp
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: The 'humorless aesthetic' had people cracking up..
Message:
...from Rutgers to Red Bank's Count Basie Theatre to Princeton University's Richardson Hall yesterday as he described Tweedledee and Tweedledumb and how the 'news' is so obsessed with the weather, intermingled with his passionate feelings about how America can be if it is taken out of the grip of big business self-interests, who want to control everything from gas prices to our children via 'corporate' public school involvement to cop our kids' heads early, to our own genetic material. This man wrote a paper in college that became a best-selling book that saved millions of lives, Unsafe at Any Speed. He's a freaking national treasure, you pompous ass! What are you, jealous? The 'humorless aesthetic' then met up with some of us after the Princeton gig at the Triumph Pub and talked some more and answered questions as we all toasted him with great micro-brewed beer. Now he is on his way to DC to sue the so-called 'Bipartisan Committee on Presidential Debates ' for illegally blocking him from attending in Boston, even though he had a ticket and was invited to comment at the Fox News trailer, both places to which he was denied entry. Maybe you like the idea of a white-collar controlled police state, being a white collar dick-tater yourself, with your head up your ass so far all you can see is your own shit, and you think it's the horizon. As for me, I'm with the 'humorless aesthetic'. Don't mind us. This isn't about one election. The Green Party is going to be around and growing. We need a third party to watchdog the other two from getting too dick-tatorial, kind of like ExTex and a few others slapping you down when you get too rowdy and think you own the place. Surely you can relate to that, cantcha?
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Date: Mon, Oct 16, 2000 at 17:41:26 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: shp
Subject: YOU'RE unsafe at any speed, shp
Message:
Very funny thinking about you and some other sycophants taking Ralph out for a beer. Sorry I missed it.
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Date: Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 18:42:30 (GMT)
From: ExTex
Email: None
To: Helen
Subject: Nader
Message:
Helen, fer christ's sake (whatever THAT means?) YOU SAID YOURSELF that Ralph Nader is your choice!
Can't you see that you are NOT voting for who YOU want because of threats and manipulation? Wake up and practise democracy.

Millions of people all over the country keep saying this stupid mantra...'I just can't vote for who I like cuz if others also did the same what would happen?'
DEMOCRACY MIGHT HAPPEN!
THE GREEN PARTY WILL QUALIFY FOR FEDERAL FUNDS like the other major parties and then they will get started on building for the NEXT elections! It has to start somewhere. This 'two party' choice is a joke and just about everyone knows it. You seem to suspect as much.

If not now, when? If not us, who?
(both the Dem and Rep parties STARTED OUT AS 3rd PARTIES!!!! They didn't always exist!
And look what happened with Governor Ventura!)
BE BRAVE!

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Date: Mon, Oct 16, 2000 at 04:57:25 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: ExTex
Subject: and then what?
Message:
What if the Green party did qualify for federal funds? Then what?

Then we would have the Democratic party divided into two parties and the Republicans would win big time. Just what they want, divide and conquer.

Face it, the US is just not that 'green', 'liberal', 'leftist' or whatever you want to label it. If it were, the Democratic party would be more that way. Remember all the elections lost because they didn't nominate a candidate closer to the center? It doesn't work.

I want results, not ideals. Ideals don't get thing done.

The Democratics are still much more 'green' then the Republicans and they are much better on other issues as well.

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Date: Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 20:36:08 (GMT)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: ExTex
Subject: Nader
Message:
I'm not brave enough to vote for Nader--there I admit it! Because I don't think he can win. If I thought he could win, I would vote for him.

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Date: Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 21:06:43 (GMT)
From: ExTex
Email: None
To: Helen
Subject: How can someone win if ...
Message:
you won't vote for them?
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Date: Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 21:22:36 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: ExTex
Subject: Pragmatic vs principled
Message:
Hi ExTex -
I think you are being a bit too idealistic here. I hear what you are saying about a protest vote changing the minds of the 'politicians' (as with Ross Perot or Jesse Ventura, for example - although I do not like either man), but there are some issues that are quite important to me that a Bush win could have a serious negative impact on.

Specifically:
1. The environment - even if all Bush does is drill in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge so we can get 3 months worth of oil, that is WAY too much. Frankly, I can't believe Nader would even want to risk this to make his 'statement'.
2. Pro-choice vs anti-abortion legislation. I am not even sure how Bush really feels about this, but you can bet he's made a lot of promises to the people who've elected him. And he may get to appoint several Supreme Court justices - who knows? (Subtext - how can anyone who says they are for less government in people's lives be anti-choice on this issue? Why do Republicans get away with this?) Ditto re Nader here.
3. Gun control - you know what the NRA has said about Bush and why they endorse him. And of course, ditto again re Nader HERE.
4. Foreign policy - I think Bush himself is clueless about foreign policy, but look who his vice-president is - not to mention his father. Read Mickey's post below.

We are talking about the real practical impact of a possible Bush presidency here. It is good to be idealistic, but I'm not willing to risk the above four things in order to be idealistic. Especially number 1: damage to fragile environmental systems often lasts forever - and will impact the world long after this election is forgotten.

One more thing - as far as electing protest candidates - I think the place for this is on the local, even state, level. My opinion is that change from the bottom up is far more effective (think globally, act locally, in other words.)

Sincerely,
Katie

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Date: Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 21:43:23 (GMT)
From: ExTex
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: Wise Katie
Message:
Okay Katie. You put that very good. I cannot argue that. But I get furious when people talk like they actually think Al Gore and company really stand for the bs that recite.

And one of the major reasons Nader is running is to START A GRASS ROOTS 3rd PARTY. If he can get a certain amount of votes then the Green Party will get Federal money like the other 2 parties and be able to start REALLY working on a local level and for the next elections.

You gotta start somewhere.
And Al Gore IS GOING TO WIN!

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Date: Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 22:06:46 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: ExTex
Subject: a dangerous gamble
Message:

And Al Gore IS GOING TO WIN!

Not if too many people who would have voted for him vote for Nader instead. Gore doesn't have this election tied up by any means. The latest polls show Bush ahead by 4 points with a margin of error of +/- 4 points.
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Date: Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 22:22:54 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: G
Subject: agree with G, ExTex
Message:
And I'm glad you liked my post, despite my pragmaticism. You do have a good point about getting the 3rd party recognized; however, I would suggest that people not vote for Nader as a protest vote unless the state you are voting in is overwhelmingly going towards either Gore or Bush. (And you know this FOR SURE.)

BTW, I'm still gonna vote for Gore in Virginia AS a protest vote - this state is getting increasingly conservative and Republican and I don't want to be a part of that.

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Date: Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 22:46:22 (GMT)
From: Bobby
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: agree with y'all
Message:
Yes, if Bush gets elected the policies of far-reaching and irreparable harm are considerably more likely than under Gore. Like Katie said, the environment, elimination of pro-choice, etc.

Yes, Katie I absolutely agree, it's really weird how Bush can talk about freedom and the evils of big government with his tacit support of right-wing big-brother agendas. And yes, I'm another who noticed Bush's grin with mention of Texas executions. Scarey.

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Date: Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 17:51:23 (GMT)
From: shp
Email: None
To: Helen
Subject: shrub
Message:
ANyone else here think Bush is just a little too proud of how Texans have died in the electric chair because of him (I am against the death penalty). Anyone else find it ironic that folks in Texas are still in jail due to stiff jail sentences for drug possession and Bush was a little druggie himself at one point?
-Helen

I too got the creeps when Shrub grinned as he said he was frying s'more convicts. In the face of DNA testing having already proven the innocence of a great many death-row inmates, this is unconscionable. Even for those who were caught red-handed and their guilt is in no question, I still think he took just a bit too much pleasure in proclaiming he was killing them....just playing to voters who have been polled and that's what enough of a percentage of them want. If the polls made it clear that people want to explore other ways to deal, he'd be a proponent of that. The last guy he did or the one up to bat, I believe he's been diagnosed as mentally retarded or whatever the politically correct term is. Shrub is just playing to the audience and not looking to make anything better but his own resume. A frustrated baseball commissioner wannabe going for his second choice: prez.
And if he makes it or not, he's still the heir apparent to Zapata Oil, his daddy's 'lil moneymaker of a Texas oil company that helps pay the rent, no doubt, in Kennebunkport.

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Date: Mon, Oct 16, 2000 at 05:16:31 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: shp
Subject: So help defeat the shrub! (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 20:38:52 (GMT)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: shp
Subject: shrub
Message:
Hi shp,
I agree he looked a little too happy about that during the debate! It doesn't seem to trouble him.
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Date: Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 16:15:19 (GMT)
From: shp
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: If you were in charge, we'd still be in caves, or
Message:
maybe just the USA would still be British colonies. I can hear you at the planning of the Revolution....'come on guys, they have so many guns and ships and RED COATS!!! They are going to kick our asses, so why rock the boat? Let's just pay their stupid tea tax and live our lives. A vote for revolution is a vote for bloodshed and pain and suffering, a wasted vote. Now let's all get home before curfew, or we'll be in big trouble!'

Read on, Jerry. Nov. 7 is just a stopgap on the road to creating a new political environment in America, breaking free of the present corrupt-to-the-core two-party system. It cannot happen all at once, especially with voters like you afraid to vote your real conscience, totally head-copped by the rattlers on the snake of the present system mesmerizing you into a false sense of wasting your vote if you use it how you really feel and think it should be used.

And you call me a sheep. HA!

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Date: Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 17:13:19 (GMT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: shp
Subject: If you were in charge, we'd still be in caves, or
Message:
Sandy,

To be honest, I think Nader is a wannabee politician who would be swallowed up in the snake pit if he ever got to the White House. He's better off being a consumer activist. That's where his real skills lie. Let the snakes rule the snake pit. Besides, polls show that Nader doesn't even have 5% of the vote. If Gore loses by that percentage, and Bush winds up in the White House, you can thank Nader for it. Yeah, he's doing a lot of good running for President, isn't he?

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Date: Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 18:56:12 (GMT)
From: ExTex
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: If you were in charge, we'd still be in caves, or
Message:
Then if the price of voting for a candidate that is honest, not for sale, intelligent, with a proven track record...and the people and the environment at the heart of his concerns....if the PRICE OF VOTING
is that some corporate hack gets elected and things GET REALLY UGLY...SO BE IT!!!

If THAT IS ALL THIS SO CALLED 'DEMOCRACY' CAN OFFER then maybe it needs to get REALLY REALLY BLATANTLY CORPORATE FASCIST (I thought it was obvious already) SO THAT PEOPLE GET UP OFF THEIR ASSES AND DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT!

This wait and hope that the corporate-hacks-won't-be-so-bad-this-time strategy is PATHETIC!
People ARE ACTUALLY DYING AS A RESULT OF THE DECISIONS OF THESE CORPORATE HACK POLITICIANS, you know!

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Date: Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 17:41:40 (GMT)
From: shp
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: If you were in charge, we'd still be in caves, or
Message:
Thing is, Jerry, it's not s'posed to be a snake pit.
In this 'new age', politics can also be raised to a higher level if everybody buys into it and brings it out of the ethers by doing something about it down here in the material world. idealism is only an idea until somebody, or alot of somebodies, act. Wise men like Plato wrote of 'philosopher kings' who would rule justly. Evil florishes where good people do nothing. Weeding a long overdue garden is not easy and you do get poked and stuck by things that should have been pulled long ago. Gotta play it where it lays. Today's fringe looneys are tomorrow's status quo. If Ralph does get any airtime, I bet the two major contenders either sluff it off or address his issues, but not before consulting with their spin doctors. Don't you want a leader who acts instead of just self-interestedly reacts?
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Date: Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 18:15:36 (GMT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: shp
Subject: If you were in charge, we'd still be in caves, or
Message:
Thing is, Jerry, it's not s'posed to be a snake pit.

And I suppose Nader's going to change it to whatever it's 'supposed' to be. It is what it is, and some snakes are less venemous than others. I think Gore is one such snake, where Nader is a pussycat that's only going to be eaten for lunch by the snakes should he ever find his ass in the Oval Office.

In this 'new age', politics can also be raised to a higher level if everybody buys into it and brings it out of the ethers by doing something about it down here in the material world. idealism is only an idea until somebody, or alot of somebodies, act.

Christ, Sandy, aren't you ever going to get tired of being a fucking hippie?

Evil florishes where good people do nothing.

And Nader is going to save us all, right? Who do you think this guy is, Maharaji or somebody?

Weeding a long overdue garden is not easy and you do get poked and stuck by things that should have been pulled long ago.

What do I look like, fucking 'Grasshopper' on Kung Fu? How much more of this am I going to have to listen to, 'master'?

Don't you want a leader who acts instead of just self-interestedly reacts?

I want somebody who knows how to play the game, and can win at it. For all my calling Gore a snake, I think he is an honorable man who wants to do what he can for the people who live in this country, the same as Nader does. The only difference is Gore's qualified, and has a chance to win. Nader isn't, and has no chance in hell.

I'm spending too much time on this place today. I'm gonna go take a walk. BTW, you're a New Yorker, right? Think there's going to be a subway series?

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Date: Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 19:04:45 (GMT)
From: ExTex
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: Spoken like a GUT Little German ....
Message:
What a LOAD OF FATALISTIC 'GOOD GERMAN'
'Ve ver just followink orders!' WEAK ASS DRIBBLE!

YOU ARE BOUGHT AND SOLD BUB.
You have completely capitulated your 'right to participate' in a real democracy, by your own words.

And you and the rest of your ilk will get EXACTLY THE FUCKER FOR PRESIDENT THAT YOU DESERVE!!!! HA HA HA

YOU ARE THE PROBLEM WITH THIS COUNTRY!

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Date: Sun, Oct 15, 2000 at 01:59:14 (GMT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: ExTex
Subject: Lighten up!
Message:
YOU ARE THE PROBLEM WITH THIS COUNTRY!

Yeah, it's all my fault. I'm sorry. Seriously, I think you're a bit idealistic. I don't think Nader is all that, the way you do. Yeah, he's a courageous individual who's good at blowing the whistle and exposing fraud and corruption where we might not otherwise know about it, but that's not all it takes to be President Of The United States.

How much experience does he have in persuading other politicians to see things his way? He sure has a history of making enemies of them by exposing their foul deeds, but how persuasive will he be when he's got to weasel a vote out of them to pass a bill he's interested in? What kind of experience does he have with foreign affairs? What kind of military commander do you think he'll make (don't make me laugh)?

These are some of the things you've got to consider when you cast your vote. It's not just a question of how admirable one candidate's character looks compared to another. It's important to believe that, in the game of politics, he can bang heads with the best of them. I think Gore can. He's been in this game for a long time. And Nader? Who knows? He's too much of a gamble. And a vote for him, in REALITY, is one vote closer to the White House for Dubya.

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Date: Tues, Oct 17, 2000 at 04:27:58 (GMT)
From: ExTex
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: Sorry Jerry
Message:
I'm getting a little worked up.
It is just that from my perspective the 2 party system is a total sham. For me, even though I would like to, I just cannot back the Democrats 'lesser of the evils' sctick anymore.

Others can. So be it. I apologize for getting so aggro with you...almost calling you a nazi....ridiculous. I am embarrased. I apologize.

AT LEAST I AM NOT HAVING TO DEBATE THE MERITS OF GEORGE DRIBBLE-YEW WITH ANYONE ON THIS FORUM!

And that is wonderful.
Ah, hell ah luvs yew-all!

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Date: Tues, Oct 17, 2000 at 14:14:40 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: ExTex
Subject: The practical vote for Nader
Message:
I just wanted to let you know that I agree, Nader is great. And I plan to vote for him....except.....if it gets too, too close in California, I will hold my nose and vote for Gore. I do not want to help Bush get elected by voting for Nader. Although I agree that Bush and Gore agree on an awful lot that isn't being discussed because Nader isn't in the debates and the press doesn't cover him, there are other differences that really matter, like the Supreme Court, such that a Bush victory would be just too awful.

But there are quite a few states in which you can vote for Nader and it won't help Bush, like New York, Massachusetts, Texas, California, most of the deep South except Florida, most of the mountain states except New Mexico, and all of New England except New Hampshire. If you live in one of those areas, and you want to vote for Nader and you can help him get the 5% and it won't help Bush.

Right now the polls show Gore ahead in California by 13 points. If that continues, Nader has got my vote. I also plan to vote for Medea Benjamin, the Green Party candidate for US Senate, because, much as I've tried, I haven't been able to think of a single reason to vote for Diane Feinstein.

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Date: Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 16:29:18 (GMT)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: shp
Subject: If you were in charge, we'd still be in caves, or
Message:
Oh brother, shp! That is some pretty far fetched talk there. Calm down! Just because Jerry is voting for Gore doesn't mean he isn't voting his conscience. It means he is facing reality and casting a vote that'll affect the next 4 years.

I don't disparage your voting for Nader at all--i think it's great. I hope he gets alot of votes. but I won't be voting for him either. I don't see that as selling out, I see it as reality. Our political system does have a lot of terrible stuff about it, but I try not to demonize it too much.

I think you got a little far fetched saying if Jerry were in charge we'd all still be in caves. Sheesh! Jerry is a smart and good guy. A good prez needs to be both--smart, really , *really* smart and good--fundamentally deep down good in character. Jerry is both.

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Date: Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 19:30:08 (GMT)
From: ExTex
Email: None
To: Helen
Subject: we still are in caves, intellectually
Message:
YOU SAID-. A good prez needs to be both--smart, really , *really* smart and good--fundamentally deep down good in character.

AND YET YOU ARE GOING TO VOTE FOR GORE!
THIS GUY IS SUPPORTING SENDING BILLIONS OF YOUR TAX $ TO A FACSIST GOVERNMENT IN COLUMBIA ALONG WITH US MILITARY INVOLVEMENT! To put down a popular 37 year revolt by the people of Columbia! PEOPLE WILL DIE HORRIBLEY!

He supports WTO/IMF/WorldBank plundering of other countries for US corporations! He supports facsist governments like Turkey, Peru, Columbia, Mexico, Indonesia, Burma, Nigeria, Israel....etc
AND PEOPLE DIE AS A RESULT! 300 children a day are dying in Iraq as a direct result of the Clinton/Gore blockade! According to the June/July Unicef report!
Doesn't that bother you? This is not a popularity contest...
(Oh, I think that so and so seemed more confident in this debate this time but the other guy recited a bunch of stuff that he was told to say...hmmm..he did SEEM TO ACT more Presidential this time too! It's a hard call. Hmmmm <<< PUKE!!!)

PEOPLE ARE DYING AS A RESULT OF THESE PEOPLES ACTIONS! WAKE-UP AND LEARN THE HISTORY OF THESE MEN AND WHO IS BACKING THEM, WHO IS FINANCING THEM, WHAT THEY HAVE REALLY DONE POLITICALLY!! THE REAL WORLD CONSEQUENCES OF THEIR ACTIONS!!! WAKE-UP!

Don't just believe what THEY TELL YOU! How simplistic can you get? I cannot believe how stupid people are. Deciding their voting on the latest sound bite or snazzy come-back that is written for some corporate hack to spew. It is pathetic!
Democracy takes WORK and that is why it is quickly going away in this CORPORATE REPUBLIC'S MONO-CULTURE!

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Date: Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 17:17:34 (GMT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Helen
Subject: Vote for me!!
Message:
Thanks, Helen :)
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Date: Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 16:52:56 (GMT)
From: Bobby
Email: None
To: Helen
Subject: this election
Message:
I find Bush truly frightening. It's not the man himself, he's just plain dumb and, like Reagan, a mouthpiece. It's the forces behind him, like the Christian Coalition. Seems like the Republicans have learned enough media savvy to keep their real agendas, like mass-enforced fundamentalist Christian morality hidden behind the curtain. If Bush wins, the truly dangerous forces will have a clear playing field.

So yeah, Nader is addressing some real issues, but he has no chance at winning. Gore, though thoroughly bought into the system status quo, at least is intelligent and has some marks of kindness. Don't see my vote for Gore as the 'lesser of two evils'; rather it is the minimization of suffering. Gotta vote for Gore.

Hi Helen: as usual, good to 'see your voice'. Best to you and family.

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Date: Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 21:38:22 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Bobby
Subject: good post, Bobby
Message:
I agree that the Christian Coalition is extremely scary - and especially to women.

And I thought your joke about sex and violence in America was really funny :).

Take care -
Love,
Katie

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Date: Sun, Oct 15, 2000 at 19:15:35 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: good post, Bobby
Message:
Christian coaliltion is scary??? That's pretty funny.

Now, reptilian aliens are scary...

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Date: Sun, Oct 15, 2000 at 21:05:26 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: They ARE scary
Message:
You oughta live in Virginia... Or Missouri, where they constantly fight about teaching evolution in schools or where they call teaching kids about the rain forest 'pagan nature worship'.

Gerry, read 'The Handmaid's Tale' by Margaret Atwood, if you haven't already. It's a good book (speculative fiction). She envisions a future based on ideas espoused today by the Christian Coalition. And yes, it is very scary.

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Date: Sun, Oct 15, 2000 at 19:20:31 (GMT)
From: Bobby
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: seen any lately?
Message:
I don't see any reptilian aliens around, do you?
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Date: Sun, Oct 15, 2000 at 20:30:53 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Bobby
Subject: seen any lately?
Message:
Hey I watched the debates...

reptiliana

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Date: Sun, Oct 15, 2000 at 21:20:44 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Do you actually believe this shit, Gerry?
Message:
So what is it, Gerry? You making fun of Icke or taking him seriously. You know my opinion. But what's yours?

THE REPTILIAN CONNECTION
By David Icke

If you are new to my work, the most bizarre information you will find on this site is that concerning the reptilian connection.

I understand that. It is quite something to absorb from our conditioned version of reality. But, then, that is the very point. If you want to keep something from the people, give them a version of reality and possibility that is so far from what is really going on that even if the truth comes to light it will seem far too ludicrous and extreme for most people to believe it.


Indeed, if you do your job well enough,
the people will laugh at the truth,
call it insane, and
ridicule anyone who promotes it.
To truly understand how all the information on this site fits together into one coherent whole (which it does), you really need to read my book, The Biggest Secret. But for those who have not yet done so, here is some basic background. Please remember, however, that in the book there is an enormous amount of information to support what I am about to say.

When I reached the point some years ago where I had put together the structure through which a few people control the direction of the world (see And The Truth Shall Set You Free), it was clear that this network of secret societies and covert groups manipulating global politics, business, banking, military, media, and so on, could not have been put together in a few years or decades. It had to go back a very long time.

So I began to trace it back into what we call history. I did this in the knowledge that, for some reason, bloodline and genetics were vitally important to these manipulators, the Illuminati or Illuminated ones - illuminated into knowledge that the public never see.

I followed the trail back comfortably to the time of the Crusades in the Middle East, the 12th and 13th centuries, that kind of period, and on it went far back into the ancient world and pre-history.

There, all over the planet, you find the ancient legends and accounts of 'gods' from another world who interbred with humanity to create a hybrid network of bloodlines. The Old Testament, for example, talks about the 'Sons of God' who interbred with the daughters of men to create the hybrid race, the Nefilim. Before it was translated into English, that passage read 'the sons of the gods', plural. But the Bible accounts are only one of so many that describe the same theme.

The Sumerian clay tablets, found in what we now call Iraq in the middle of the 19th century, tell a similar story. It is estimated they were buried around 2,000 BC, but the stories they tell go back long before that. The tablets talk of a race of 'gods' from another world who brought advanced knowledge to the planet and interbred with humans to create hybrid bloodlines. These 'gods' are called in the tablets, the 'Anunnaki', which apparently translates as 'those who from heaven to earth came.'

The ancient accounts tell us that these hybrid bloodlines, the fusion of the genes of selected humans with those of the 'gods', were put into the positions of ruling royal power, especially in the ancient Near and Middle East, in advanced cultures like Sumer, Babylon, and Egypt. But it happened elsewhere, also, as you will find, for example, in the amazing information provided on this site by the African Zulu shaman, Credo Mutwa, and in the incredible Credo videos, Reptilian Agenda, parts one and two. He tells the same story from the black African tradition that I have uncovered elsewhere in the world.

The accounts of the 'serpent race' in ancient cultures are simply endless wherever you look and the serpent, reptilian, symbolism in relation to the Anunnaki and other versions of these 'gods' is equally widespread. We see this in the Bible, for instance, with the serpent in the 'Garden of Eden'- a story which clearly comes from the Sumerian accounts, as does the story of Moses in the bulrushes, a story told about a Sumerian king long before the Bible. This is why I found it so astounding when I was told by Zecharia Sitchin, the best-known translator of the Sumerian tablets, that there was no evidence of a serpent race in the ancient world. Of course there is. He also strongly advised me in relation to the serpent race…'Don't go there'. Why, when the evidence, ancient and modern, is so enormous?

From these bloodlines has come the origin of the 'divine right of kings', the belief that only certain bloodlines have the god-given right to rule. In truth this is not the 'divine' or 'God' at all. It is the right to rule from the reptilian 'gods' by way of your hybrid genetics.

These bloodlines later became the royal and aristocratic families of Europe and, thanks to the 'Great' British Empire and the other European empires, they were exported to the Americas, Africa, Australia, New Zealand, and right across into the Far East, where they connected with other reptilian hybrid bloodlines, like those, most obviously, in China, where the symbolism of the dragon is the very basis of their culture.

These reptilian-human hybrid lines became the political and economic rulers of these lands occupied by the European empires and they continue to rule these countries to this day. The United States of America has been home to hundreds of millions of people since 1776. What's more, these people came from an amazingly diverse genetic pool. And yet, wait for this, the 42 who have become Presidents of the United States are all related!!! Thirty-Three of them alone go back to Charlemagne, one of the most famous monarchs of what we call France. He just happens to be a major figure in the story of these bloodlines and their expansion out of Britain, France, Germany, and elsewhere.

See Related Articles:

THE WINDSOR-BUSH BLOODLINE
Bush~Windsor~Piso Bloodline

The Rothschilds, Rockefellers, the British royal family, and the ruling political and economic families of the US and the rest of the world come from these SAME bloodlines. This is why the so called Eastern Establishment families of the United States interbreed with each other as obsessively as the European royal and 'noble' families have always done. And similar families across the world. It is not because of snobbery, it is to hold as best they can a genetic structure - the reptilian-mammalian DNA combination which allows them to 'shape-shift'.

You will also see references on the site to 'shape-shifting', the phenomena in which witnesses have reported seeing people (most often those in positions of power), transform before their eyes, from a human form to a reptilian one and then back again. You will find much about this in The Biggest Secret and Credo Mutwa confirms exactly the same experience in black Africa. Once again, ancient and modern accounts support each other. The ancient gods of the Indus Valley, the Nagas, were said to have been able to take either human or reptilian form.

Former US president, George Bush, incidentally, is mentioned more than any other person in my experience in relation to shape-shifting. This is why his son is being brought through in the 2000 presidential election.


Presidents are not EL-ected by ballot,
they are SEL-ected by blood.
Al Gore, his 'Democratic' opponent in the one-party state, is also from this bloodline. Look almost anywhere in the world in a position of significant power and you will find the same.

The reptilian symbolism you see around you with gargoyles, in coats of arms, in advertising, and so on, is all part of this.

These 'gods' could not take over the planet openly because there are not enough of them, so they are doing it covertly by appearing human. Movies like They Live, The Arrival (the first, not the sequel), and the US television series, V, tell the story of what is REALLY going on. I urge you to think about watching these movies to get up to speed if you are new to all of this.

New World Order and conspiracy researchers also have political and religious belief systems to defend and while they uncover one level of the conspiracy, most reject and even ridicule what I am saying about the reptilian connection. That's fine, but unless they encompass this bigger picture they will never, in my view, understand what is truly happening all around us.

As Ghandi said:

'Even if you are in a minority of one,
the truth is still the truth'.
And as a result of the waves The Biggest Secret has caused, and the new information, experiences, and accounts the book and this website have attracted from all over the world, there is a growing understanding that this apparently bizarre, crazy, story is actually true. That the world may indeed be controlled by reptilian bloodlines that hide behind apparently human form and it is this understanding which pulls together all the apparently unconnected information on this site into a very much connected whole.

Here are some examples:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RELIGION:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If you wish to control a mass population, you have to disconnect them from the true knowledge of who they are and their own infinite potential to manifest their own destiny and control their own lives. You have to persuade them that they are insignificant and powerless so they will live their lives in accordance with that.

This is where religion has been one of the most effective weapons of the Illuminati and the reptilian bloodlines. It fills people with fear of a judgmental God and tells them that unless they believe that the 'truth' of all that is can be found in one book or belief system, they are going to hell or will experience other extremely unpleasant consequences.

Different religions have also been wonderful vehicles for dividing and ruling the people through arrogant, self-righteous, inter-religious conflict. The reptilians created the religions for this reason and the key players within them do not even begin to believe the nonsense they parrot to their followers. They just want the population to believe it, so they will be easy to control. This is why you find so many famous 'Christian' evangelists, for example, are actually Satanists. Their 'Christianity' is just a smokescreen.


SEE THE RELIGION ARCHIVES
AND THE NEWS ROOM


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

MEDICINE AND MEDIA:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The suppression of the true knowledge of healing and the domination of drug and surgery-based 'medicine' ensures that the human physical body operates at far less than its optimum potential. This is the reason for the blatant misrepresentation and suppression of the so-called 'alternative' forms of healing which have been around for thousands of years longer than modern 'medicine'.

Food additives, fast food, flouride in the water supplies, the poisons we put on the land and therefore eat in our food and drink in our water, are all suppressing not only our physical health and vibrance, but, most crucially, our brain functions and intellect. A fully awake, mentally sharp, population is the last thing you need if you want to control them. Thus the reptilian bloodlines also put so much emphasis on controlling 'education' and the media. This allows them to feed us a constant diet of brainless crap, like game shows, while the 'news' media tells us what the controllers want us to think. Most journalists are so brain-dead themselves, so lacking in understanding of what they are part of, that they, like most of the population, play a part in advancing an agenda they do not even know exists.


SEE THE MEDICAL RESEARCH ARCHIVES
AND THE NEWS ROOM


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

MIND CONTROL

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is obviously very related to religion, which is, for me, the greatest form of mass mind control yet invented. So is advertising and television. But mind control goes much deeper than that. The Illuminati-reptilian mind-control projects have produced literally millions of mind-controlled robots in endless walks of life, who are programmed to carry out the Illuminati agenda.

There are many electronic ways that this is done today, but one of the key methods is trauma-based mind control. This is where people are traumatised through sexual abuse, violence, being forced to witness and take part in human sacrifice rituals, and countless other horrors. Such experiences activate the mechanism in the mind which shuts out memories of extreme trauma.

One expression of this, which many people have experienced, is when they cannot recall the memory of a bad car crash. They can remember before and after, but not the impact. The mind puts an amnesic barrier around the memory so we do not have to keep re-living it. This is a good thing, but the Illuminati have developed methods of using this technique to traumatise a mind over and over until it fragments into a honeycomb of disconnected amnesic barriers. They then program these different fragments of mind (altars as they call them) with different tasks. The tasks are pre-programmed to be activated with a 'trigger' word, colour, sound, or whatever. Once the trigger is given that programming locks in and the person will do whatever they have been programmed to do.

This can be to have sex with a famous politician, which they will not remember; to assassinate someone like John Lennon; to go crazy with a gun in a school, which leads to gun control etc. The concentration camps of Nazi Germany under the supervision of the 'Angel of Death', Josef Mengele, were one of the major centres for such experimentation. Mengele was taken to the United States and South America after the war by the Illuminati under the name Doctor Green or Greenbaum to continue his horrific 'work'. This manifested as the notorious mind-control project, MK Ultra. The China Lake Naval Weapons Center in the California desert was one of his premier bases of operation.

The most effective time to start this process of creating human robots is before the age of five or six. Hence you have the colossal child abuse networks and the Satanic ritual abuse of children exposed on this site and in my books.


SEE THE MIND CONTROL ARCHIVES


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

THE ABUSE AND SATANIC RITUAL ABUSE OF CHILDREN, AND HUMAN SACRIFICE CEREMONIES IN GENERAL

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Staggering as it may seem, all of the above are massively widespread all over the world. It is happening in your community now, I don't care where you are. I, and others, have been highlighting this for years and now, as you will see on this site, the scale of it, and the famous people involved, are coming to light at last.

Partly these rituals and abuse networks are to do with traumatising people, especially children, but it is far more than just that. Follow the Illuminati-reptilian bloodlines from the ancient world to now and they have ALWAYS taken part in human sacrifice ceremonies and blood-drinking. The sacrifices to 'the gods' in the ancient accounts were literally sacrifices to the reptilians and their hybrid bloodines. The story of the blood-drinking Dracula is symbolic of these reptilian 'vampires'. One of the locations of this reptilian group would appear to be the star-system known as Draco and 'draconian' certainly sums up the Illuminati.

To hold their human form, these entities need to drink human (mammalian) blood and access the energy it contains to maintain their DNA codes in their 'human' expression. If they don't, they manifest their reptilian codes and we would all see what they really look like. 'Oh, my God, Mr. President, do you always eat your breakfast from across the room?'.

From what I understand from former 'insiders', the blood (energy) of babies and small children is the most effective for this, as are blond-haired, blue-eyed people. Hence these are the ones overwhelmingly used in sacrifice, as are red- haired people also, it appears.

This is why people like George Bush, Henry Kissinger, and a stream of the other Illuminati 'big names' are exposed in my books and on this site as reptilian shape-shifters who take part in human sacrifice and blood drinking. The two go together. There also appears to be a very significant emphasis among the Illuminati-reptilians and their offshoots with paedophilia, which is rampant on this planet.

SEE A LONG LIST OF ARTICLES AND NEWS STORIES ON THIS SITE FOR MORE ON THESE SUBJECTS.

I would emphasise also before I end here that I am exposing certain reptilian GROUPS behind the Illuminati, not the reptilian genetic stream in general. There are many of reptilian origin who are here to help humanity to free themselves from this mental and emotional bondage. Indeed, every one of us has a body with much reptilian genetics, including part of the brain called the R-complex, the reptilian brain. It is merely a matter of degree.

I trust this brief summary will help you to see the relevance of all the articles and information you will find on this site. In the end all these apparently unconnected 'conspiracies' are part of ONE conspiracy designed to introduce ONE agenda. The reptilian control of Planet Earth and its entire population.


Love,

David Icke

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Date: Mon, Oct 16, 2000 at 00:22:59 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: fitzroy@liverpool.ac.uk
To: Jim
Subject: David Icke is insane (even for a sports journo) nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Sun, Oct 15, 2000 at 22:56:39 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: I don't know, I didn't read it...
Message:
hehehehe
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Date: Mon, Oct 16, 2000 at 14:05:33 (GMT)
From: ham
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Your'e wicked you are :) (nt)
Message:
ha indeed
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Date: Sun, Oct 15, 2000 at 22:56:18 (GMT)
From: ham
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: I dunno, paedophilia/blondes, gm the reptile??
Message:
ha ha ha ha

Who needs chemikals when you can read David Icke?

Maybe we should check with the pams to see if gm has ever been into drinking blood!!

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Date: Sun, Oct 15, 2000 at 21:53:28 (GMT)
From: Monmot
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Icke's on the money about Bush...
Message:
Bush Sr. and The Shrub are pretty reptilian as far as I'm concerned.

This sounds totally cuckoo, but I have had a couple of experiences where I've looked at a person and saw s/he had red eyes. When I looked again, they looked normal. I have no clue what that was about.

Uh, oh, someone's knocking on the door...men in white coats.

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Date: Sun, Oct 15, 2000 at 22:01:34 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Monmot
Subject: Sometimes I have to remember what bar I'm in
Message:
This IS the after-hours bar for the Guru Maharaj Ji, Lord of the Universe, cult, isn't it?

Why of course it is!

So why am I surprised when every second person seems to be at least a carrier, if not downright infected, with every lame brain theory that's ever made its way into print?

Why?

<>Because I'm an idiot too!

Let's not forget our common roots, folks.

Now, Monmot, what was that you experienced? Yes, please, I'm talking notes......

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Date: Sun, Oct 15, 2000 at 22:13:27 (GMT)
From: Monmot the Mookie
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Starwars Bar, Right?
Message:
Jim:

Hey, I don't have to believe in Icke to see that The Shrub is reptilian. I just saw my first TV ad that Bush has aired in California. He's surrounded by children (didn't see him sucking any blood, though, maybe he ate before taping), saying that Texas is No. 1 in education improvement. Well, when your state is 50th in education, being No. 1 in education improvement ain't saying much (or too much).

As for the red eyes...just standing in line at the bank and, bingo, red eyes in the person in the line across from me. I think I need my lawyer now. Uh, oh, another knock on the door. White coat or lab coat?

M

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Date: Sun, Oct 15, 2000 at 22:31:08 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Monmot the Mookie
Subject: Sounds like a bit of a Kodak moment, Monmot (nt)
Message:
gggggg
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Date: Sun, Oct 15, 2000 at 22:59:23 (GMT)
From: Monmot
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Yeah, I should get sunglasses that remove red (nt)
Message:
moooo
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Date: Sun, Oct 15, 2000 at 21:15:36 (GMT)
From: Bobby
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: seen any lately?
Message:
Hey Gerry,

Do you believe David Ickes story?

Seems to fit what I gather of your own persuasions. I read a little of Ickes' site, what you linked to in your post. I've encountered a few of the areas referenced, like the Illumniati 'bloodline' and anti-IRS messages.

Pretty wild and somewhat interesting. Strong conspiracy theory and all that. In the past I've read a bit on the kinds of things he relates, but in the end personally come up with different overviews on it all. I won't get into it here.

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Date: Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 20:50:48 (GMT)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Bobby
Subject: Bobby/ExTex
Message:
Hey Bobby,
I agree that Gore is a vote to help minimize suffering. Good way to put it. I am especially concerned with the environment, poor folks, children, the elderly and health care. His views on social security, education,and the environment are what this country needs IMO. Hope you are well, think of you often.

ExTex--
I don't even know you, have never had an exchange with you, but I think you're jumping to some really weird conclusions about me because of the way I have chosen to vote. I admire you for voting for Nader, I like Nader, but I also like Gore and I want to vote for an electable Prez. candidate. If I felt passionately as about Nader as you do, I would vote for him, believe me. Remember this *IS* a democracy and we can vote for whoever we want to, right????

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Date: Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 21:29:15 (GMT)
From: ExTex
Email: None
To: Helen
Subject: Bobby/ExTex
Message:
The fact that you don't know me is meaningless as this is an open forum isn't it? You are not required to 'know' everyone before you can address their posts.

I fully understand your reasons for voting for Gore.
(If you actually can believe that doing so represents a 'free democracy' when alternative candidates are kept out of the public debates on the public airwaves....and not even allowed to view the debates in the audience...but rather strong armed off the premises as Nader was!! Kinda like those other one party democracy states 'over there') Freedom? Democracy? Come on.

I don't mean to be rude or unkind to you. I apologize if I come across that way. I am not trying to be hurtful and I do not mean to be making it personal! Sorry.

But if you are concerned about the things you say you are....
Gore's environmental solutions include giving tax incentives to polluting corporations to come up with less polluting technologies!

Give the polluters our tax money so they can come up with a product that is better and make a lot of profit from selling it back to us! Good plan! Why not pass tough environmental laws AND ENFORCE THEM! Watch how fast they will use their massive profits to come up with clean and efficiant technology! Better yet, WHY NOT ENFORCE THE LAWS ALREADY ON THE BOOKS! Clinton/Gore have not and Gore/Bush will not!

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Date: Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 16:38:56 (GMT)
From: shp
Email: None
To: Helen
Subject: If you were in charge, we'd still be in caves, or
Message:
A good prez needs to be both--smart, really, *really* smart and good--fundamentally deep down good in character. Jerry is both.
-Helen

That settles it...I'm voting for JERRY! -shp

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Date: Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 17:24:44 (GMT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: shp
Subject: Now, you're talking!
Message:
That settles it...I'm voting for JERRY! -shp

Unfortunately, like Nader, I'm not a politician, and would be made mincemeat of, within a week, by those who are.

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Date: Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 17:55:28 (GMT)
From: shp
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: Now, you're talking!
Message:
Just make Jim your Attorney General and let him run things behind closed doors. He can handle the politicians, being one himself. The only thing you'll have to deal with is being publicly embarrassed, demeaned and upstaged, and having to answer for the premie concentration camps. A small price to pay for a lifetime salary of about $400K.
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Date: Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 19:38:47 (GMT)
From: ExTex
Email: None
To: shp
Subject: Vote Jerry, YES!
Message:
Okay....I will have to back and vote for you Jerry
And I'll tell you why:
cuz you said that you are NOT a politician...GOOD!
Let's get rid of the politicians and bring on the STATESMEN & WOMEN!!
I vote for JERRY (and I do like the idea of Jim as attorney general...just try to keep him on a short leash! Or maybe secretary of state would be better. How about it Jim?)
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Date: Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 20:18:11 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: ExTex
Subject: I think you've bought a whole lot of nonsense, ExT
Message:
And to think that I carefully tried to help you with your paranoid confusion when you first posted here.

Fuck you, jerk.

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Date: Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 21:54:53 (GMT)
From: ExTex
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Well that was very mature, councilor.
Message:
Are we seeing the colors of a corporate rightwinger apologist posting from Canada? Hey Jim, I think your post to me speaks volumes about you. VOLUMES!

YOU LIVE IN CANADA WHERE THERE ARE WAY MORE THAN TWO PARTIES THAT GET TO PARTICIPATE IN THE PROCESS!!! So what the fuck are you doing posting about this subject you self righteous asshole? (See I can swear too!)

SO YOU FUCK OFF, COUNCILOR!!!!

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Date: Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 21:58:00 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: ExTex
Subject: Spelling? (nt)
Message:
fffff
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Date: Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 22:06:06 (GMT)
From: ExTex
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Nit-picking? (nt)
Message:
(nt)
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Date: Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 19:50:57 (GMT)
From: Mickey the Pharisee
Email: None
To: ExTex
Subject: I learned my lesson in 1980
Message:
I voted for John Anderson back in 1980 because I was disgusted with the Democrats and Republicans. Reagan won and Carter was sent back to Georgia and my, what a wonderful decade THAT was. Remember how many people died in Central America during that time, ExTex? As one living right next door to Columbia, I would like to remind you that people are dying horribly there right now and have been with the Drug Cartels running the government and the anti-government forces killing folks along with the army. A vote for Nader puts the same people who brought you the Contra War and all the death squad activity that made Central America such a place of horror during the '80s and early '90s, because it just helps Bush. A vote for Nader helps put Bush in, since things are quite close. Your arguments remind me of the stuff the Perotistas were saying back in 1992 and 1996. I haven't talked to anyone here in Panamá who longs to see another Bush in la Casa Blanca.
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Date: Sun, Oct 15, 2000 at 05:41:45 (GMT)
From: shp
Email: None
To: Mickey the Pharisee
Subject: I wonder how many sea critters had to crawl onto
Message:
dry land and die before the species evolved air-breathing organs?
Point is, we gotta start somewhere or things stay the way they are. When this country was formed, women had no vote and werenot counted in the census, black people had no vote, counted as 2/3 of a person and were in chains, native Americans had no vote, were not counted and were being genocided, yet this country was founded on the ideals of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness being inalienable rights of all human beings. Hypocritical? Or just a mouthful than has taken over two hundred years to get even this far. Takes time for such a good and pure idea to sink into the human psyche and become reality. We gotta start somewhere, and it feels so good to be in on an action rather than just another reaction for a change.

shp

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Date: Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 22:02:45 (GMT)
From: ExTex
Email: None
To: Mickey the Pharisee
Subject: Clinton/Gore Are Responsible
Message:
for backing just the thing you are talking about. And I too backed Anderson and regretted it. Now I believe he was a strategy that was run by the Reagan campaign (which was run by CIA director William Casey, I believe). Anderson was a Republican with questionable background....Nader is not.

I am horrified by the same stuff that you posted about. But Clinton AND Gore are backing this stuff for the last 8 years too.....SO WHAT DO WE DO ABOUT IT????

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Date: Sun, Oct 15, 2000 at 02:25:54 (GMT)
From: Mickey the Pharisee
Email: None
To: ExTex
Subject: Clinton/Gore Are Responsible
Message:
I don't think that the past eight years has been anything like the war on Central Americans supported by Reagan/Bush. Columbia has been falling apart for quite a while, due to the Estadounidense desire for cocaine. I don't think that Nadar could do anything to stop that, but I don't want to see Bush following Daddy's advisors and pushing around everyone on the isthmus again. Bush has said some stupid things about the Canal which have many people nervous here. I'm still saying that a vote for Nader is a vote for Bush, just as a vote for Anderson was a vote for Reagan, and a vote for Perot was a vote for Clinton. There is no real chance for a viable third party in the U.S.
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Date: Sun, Oct 15, 2000 at 05:44:08 (GMT)
From: shp
Email: None
To: Mickey the Pharisee
Subject: Clinton/Gore Are Responsible
Message:
There is no real chance for a viable third party in the U.S.
-Mickey the Pharisee

O ye of little faith.

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Date: Sun, Oct 15, 2000 at 13:24:52 (GMT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: shp
Subject: Clinton/Gore Are Responsible
Message:
That's good, SHP. Of all the participants on this forum, among the faithful, Michael's the one who's most living his faith, and you tell him 'O ye of little faith'. That's rich. And you? You're just naive.
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Date: Sun, Oct 15, 2000 at 14:02:01 (GMT)
From: shp
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: Clinton/Gore Are Responsible
Message:
'There is no real chance for a viable third party in the U.S.'
-Mickey the Pharisee

'O ye of little faith.' -shp

'That's good, SHP. Of all the participants on this forum, among the faithful, Michael's the one who's most living his faith, and you tell him 'O ye of little faith'. That's rich. And you? You're just naive.' -Jerry

Dear Jerry,

With all due respect to Michael, how can you make such a blanket statement about who is living their faith the MOST around here or anywhere? I respectfully beg to differ with you in your assumptions that by participating in a formal religion and holding a position of authority, responsibility and service in it, one qualifies to have be living their faith the MOST? You can try to make this part of the thread look like I'm jumping on Michael, but I am not. I am just saying that in this context, the one about US politics in this here and now, that Michael has little faith, well actually no faith at all, in the ability of the people to come up with an alternative to the corrupt-to-the- core two-party system. In Michael's own words:

'There is no real chance for a viable third party in the U.S.'

He doesn't even say 'in my opinion..' or 'I think that...'
He just makes a declaration, a statement of (what he thinks is)
fact, and rides in on his faith, with the authority of the the Roman Catholic Church behind him, in your eyes. Speaking of the Roman Catholic Church, I'll give you three guesses who they'd like to see in the Oval Office.

Having said all of this, I bear no disrespect or anything negative for Michael. But I also say that he is not sacrosanct from criticism such as my saying that he has little, yea no faith whatsoever in the fortitude of the American people to make positive change in the political system by coming up with a strong and viable third party to make it more interesting and keep politics more honest and feet-to-the-fire about what is really important.

I am going to see and hear Ralph over at Rutgers today. Then hopefully, I'll be going from there to Red Bank and then Princeton to participate in his tour and be a witness to that which I have faith in on a political context.

Take care,
shp

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Date: Sun, Oct 15, 2000 at 18:02:07 (GMT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: shp
Subject: Clinton/Gore Are Responsible
Message:
Okay, Sandy, I guess you're right. I took it out of context. I still think you're naive.
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Date: Sun, Oct 15, 2000 at 17:49:45 (GMT)
From: Michael
Email: None
To: shp
Subject: SHP, can't you remember anything?
Message:
I'm not a Roman Catholic, I'm an Anglican! I think you are suffering from short-term (maybe even long term) memory loss.:-) I wasn't speaking as a priest (I know, Jerry brought up the religious aspect); I was speaking as an American citizen living abroad who does not want to see George Bush and his father's cronies murdering Central Americans again. Nader can't win, and a vote for Nader takes away votes from Gore, IMHO (¿happy?).
You are right, Sandy; I don't have any faith in Estodunidense to really make positive change in their political system.
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Date: Mon, Oct 16, 2000 at 13:03:52 (GMT)
From: shp
Email: None
To: Michael
Subject: Seeking absolution and some gingko biloba
Message:
Sorry about the mis-identity of your religious affiliation.

As long as people are held in a fearful grip of not voting their conscience and having to jockey around the bullshit like this election between two suits joined at the wallet, we will not have real liberty and freedom. If Bush wins because people voted their conscience for Nader or someone else, so be it. That will just speed up the public awareness that Bush in fact is what and who he is (a corporation running for president disguised as a human being) and change will happen all the more faster. Change ain't always nice and neat. Ralph said that the only diference between Bush and Gore is the velocity with which their knees hit the floor when their corporate paymaster come knocking at their door. How true.

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Date: Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 21:04:04 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Mickey the Pharisee
Subject: Thank you Mickey - I agree!
Message:
My mother and sister also voted for John Anderson in 1980, for the same reasons you did, and I was furious (I have to admit that I really liked, and STILL like, Jimmy Carter). Maybe I'm way too pragmatic for ExTex, but I would never vote for a third party candidate as a protest vote unless BOTH the other candidates were equally awful, or if the third party candidate genuinely had a chance to win. I agree that a vote for Nader is a vote for Bush - unless your state is already decided one way or another.

Actually, Bush is definitely going to win in Virginia - this place is conservative to the max, and there are a lot of people who will vote ONLY for the anti-choice candidate - but I'm STILL going to vote for Gore. Consider THAT my protest vote.

By the way, thanks for the view from Central America - always interesting to hear.

Love,
Katie

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Date: Sun, Oct 15, 2000 at 02:30:37 (GMT)
From: Mickey the Pharisee
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: ¡Con mucho gusto!
Message:
I like Jimmy Carter, too, and I am sad that I fell for that Anderson crap back then, but I have not fallen for that third party stuff since! I think that Jimmy Carter has been a great example of what an ex-president can do once out of office, rather than making the big bucks talking to Corporate Conventions.

I've been away from this site for a while as my phone was down for three weeks and the phone company only fixed things Thursday morning (just part of the joys of living in a developing nation!), but I don't know it I have the desire to read all the posts to catch up. I think I'll post as Mickey the Pharisee again since Michael Dettmers is posting and making it difficult for the other Michael Ds.

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Date: Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 13:09:11 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: So M's message has 'always been the same' has it?
Message:
April 13 1991: 'What
has a devotee to become? A devotee has to become a
receptacle. And what has a disciple to become? A disciple too
has to become a receptacle. Whatever you name him, he is
meant to be a vessel, meant to be empty... You have to turn to
the Master and pray to him to give you prudence - 'Maharaji,
please give me wisdom... If my attention is diverted
somewhere else, O my Lord, please call me back to you... I do
not know what is good for me. But you know best.''

Interviewed by the Divine
Times newspaper in February 1973, he described himself as
'the Supremest Lord in person'.

In February 1982 he advised
aficionados that 'by yourself you cannot do anything, but I can
do everything...

I am the law, in which rests the movement of
the stars and the growth of each living cell'.

At another New Delhi rally, on November 9 1990, he
announced that 'the guru is such a personality about whom it is
said: 'I bow down to the lotus-feet of my Guru Maharaji, who is
the ocean of mercy and is actually Hari (God) himself in human
form.
''

But then we come to June 1996, and the story now goes:

'But I was saying
right from the beginning: 'I'm not a
messiah; I'm not a prophet; I'm none of
those things.' Those are just concepts.'


.
.
.
.

Shurely shome iconshistency there?

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Date: Sun, Oct 15, 2000 at 14:01:02 (GMT)
From: Elaine
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: So M's message has 'always been the same' has it?
Message:
Just dropped in for 5 minutes again.

Just wanted to say to you, cq, - Good one.

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Date: Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 14:21:38 (GMT)
From: Coach
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: Other 'I am the law' quotes
Message:
'I am the law, in which rests the movement of
the stars and the growth of each living cell'.

Not an entirely original quote:-


  1. 'I am the law' - Anthony Hopkins in 'Mutiny On The Bounty'
  2. 'I am the law' - Inspector Clouseau in 'Pink Panther'
  3. 'I am dah law' - Sly Stallone in 'Judge Dredd'

Coach
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Date: Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 14:23:37 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Coach
Subject: ... and the law won? ;) (nt)
Message:
slkdfj
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Date: Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 14:26:47 (GMT)
From: Coach
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: Other 'and the law won' quotes
Message:
'I fought the law and the law won' - Roger eDrek

Coach

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Date: Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 14:40:39 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Coach
Subject: Reminds me of this one (very ot)
Message:
CLEVER LAWYER

A defending attorney was cross examining a coroner. The
attorney asked, 'Before you signed the death certificate had
you taken the man's pulse?'

The coroner said, 'No.'

The attorney then asked, 'Did you listen for a heart beat?'

'No.'

'Did you check for breathing?'

'No.'

'So when you signed the death certificate you had not taken
any steps to make sure the man was dead, had you?'

The coroner, now tired of the browbeating said, 'Well, let me
put it this way. The man's brain was sitting in a jar on my
desk, but for all I know he could be out there practicing law
somewhere.'

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Date: Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 14:50:11 (GMT)
From: Coach
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: Many a true word...(nt)
Message:
gotta go
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Date: Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 14:57:00 (GMT)
From: Coach
Email: None
To: Coach
Subject: Hey, CQ (tot)
Message:
tot = totally off topic
----------------------------------------------------------------
Have you seen these? No's 4 & 8 are my favourite
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Darwin Award Nominee's
----------------------------------------------------------------
And the nominees for last year's awards are:

NOMINEE No. 1: [San Jose Mercury News]:
An unidentified man, using a shotgun like a club to break a former girlfriend's windshield, accidentally shot himself to death when the gun discharged, blowing a hole in his gut.

NOMINEE No. 2: [Kalamazoo Gazette] James Burns, 34, (a mechanic) of Alamo, Mich., was killed in March as he was trying to repair what police describe as a 'farm type truck.' Burns got a friend to drive the truck on a highway while Burns hung underneath so that he could ascertain the source of a troubling noise. Burns' clothes caught on something, however, and the other man found Burns 'wrapped in the drive shaft.'

NOMINEE No. 3: [Hickory Daily Record] Ken Charles Barger, 47, accidentally shot himself to death in December in Newton, N.C. Awakening to the sound of a ringing telephone beside his bed, he reached for the phone but grabbed instead a Smith & Wesson .38 Special, which discharged when he drew it to his ear.

NOMINEE No. 4: [UPI, Toronto] Police said a lawyer demonstrating the safety of windows in a downtown Toronto skyscraper crashed through a pane with his shoulder and plunged 24 floors to his death. A police spokesman said Garry Hoy, 39, fell into the courtyard of the Toronto Dominion Bank Tower early Friday evening as he was explaining the strength of the building's windows to visiting law students. Hoy previously has conducted demonstration of window strength according to police reports. Peter Lawyers, managing partner of the firm Holden Day Wilson, told the Toronto Sun newspaper that Hoy was 'one of the best and brightest' members of the 200-man association.

NOMINEE No. 5: [Bloomburg News Service] A terrible diet and room with no ventilation are being blamed for the death of a man who was killed by his own gas. There was no mark on his body but an autopsy showed large amounts of methane gas in his system. His diet had consisted primarily of beans and cabbage (and a couple of other things). It was just the right combination of foods. It appears that the man died in his sleep from breathing the poisonous cloud that was hanging over his bed. Had he been outside or had his windows been opened, it wouldn't have been fatal. But the man was shut up in his near airtight bedroom. According to the article, 'He was a big man with a huge capacity for creating 'this deadly gas.' Three of the rescuers got sick and one was hospitalized.

NOMINEE No. 6: [The News of the Weird.] Michael Anderson Godwin made News of the Weird posthumously. He had spent several years awaiting South Carolina's electric chair on a murder conviction before having his sentence reduced to life in prison. Whilst sitting on a metal toilet in his cell and attempting to fix his small TV set, he bit into a wire and was electrocuted.

NOMINEE NO. 7: ['The Indianapolis Star']. A cigarette lighter may have triggered fatal explosion in Dunkirk, Indiana. A Jay County man using a cigarette lighter to check the barrel of a muzzle loader was killed Monday night when the weapon discharged in his face, sheriff's investigators said. Gregory David Pryor, 19, died in his parents' rural Dunkirk home about 11:30 p.m. Investigators said Pryor was cleaning a 54-caliber muzzleloader that had not been firing properly. He was using the lighter to look into the barrel when the gunpowder ignited.

NOMINEE No. 8: [Reuters, Mississauga, Ontario] A man cleaning a bird Feeder on the balcony of his condominium apartment in this Toronto suburb slipped and fell 23 stories to his death. Stefan Macko, 55, was standing on a wheeled chair when the accident occurred, said Inspector D'Arcy Honer of the Peel regional police. 'It appears the chair moved and he went over the balcony,' Honer said.

AND FINALLY, NOMINEE No.9!!!: [Arkansas Democrat Gazette] Two local men were seriously injured when their pick-up truck left the road and struck a tree near Cotton Patch on State Highway 38 early Monday morning. Woodruff County deputy Dovey Snyder reported the accident shortly after midnight Monday. Thurston Poole, 33, of Des Arc and Billy Ray Wallis,38, of Little Rock are listed in serious condition at Baptist Medical Center. The accident occurred as the two men were returning to Des Arc after a frog gigging trip. On an overcast Sunday night, Poole's pick-up truck headlights malfunctioned. The two men concluded that the headlight fuse on the older model truck had burned out. As a replacement fuse was not available, Wallis noticed that the .22 caliber bullet from his pistol fit perfectly into the fuse box next to the steering wheel column. Upon inserting the bullet, the headlights again began to operate properly and the two men proceeded on east-bound toward the White River bridge. After traveling approximately twenty miles and just before crossing the river, the bullet apparently overheated, discharged and struck Poole in the right testicle. The vehicle swerved sharply to the right exiting the pavement and striking a tree. Poole suffered only minor cuts and abrasions from the accident, but will require surgery to repair the other wound. Wallis sustained a broken clavicle and was treated and released. 'Thank God we weren't on that bridge when Thurston shot his balls off or we might both be dead' stated Wallis. 'I've been a trooper for ten years in this part of the world, but this is a first for me. I can't believe that those two would admit how this accident happened,' said Snyder. Upon being notified of the wreck, Lavinia, Poole's wife asked how many frogs the boys had caught and did anyone get them from the truck. (Way to go, Lavinia.)
----------------------------------------------------

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Date: Sun, Oct 15, 2000 at 16:55:11 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Coach
Subject: Hey, CQ (tot)
Message:
My vote's for number 6 - what a way to go!

I've misplaced my own favourite, but will post it in a day or two. In the meantime, here's a couple you might like:


'nail in the head'

and

'Singer dies on weird note'

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Date: Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 20:14:29 (GMT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Coach
Subject: Hey, Coach (tot)
Message:
Hi!

I just recently ran across the Darwin site and I think it's hilarious. I guess I have a sick sense of humor, you think?

Cynthia

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Date: Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 20:59:49 (GMT)
From: Coach
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: Hey, Cynthia (tot)
Message:
C,

My congratulations on your good taste. I don't consider it sick in the slightest. You have a highly sophisticated and very healthy sense of humor. Sick is when you can't laugh anymore. Boogie on.

Coach

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Date: Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 11:36:47 (GMT)
From: Steven Quint
Email: sequint@home.com
To: Everyone
Subject: A Wish
Message:
May the only cult you ever encounter or think about be the rock group led by Ian Astbury.

Love

Steve

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Date: Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 11:39:33 (GMT)
From: Steven Quint
Email: sequint@home.com
To: Everyone
Subject: Another Wish
Message:
May the only insects you ever encounter be The Beatles.

Steve

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Date: Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 11:41:54 (GMT)
From: Steven Quint
Email: sequint@home.com
To: Everyone
Subject: One More
Message:
May the only monsters you ever encounter be The Addams Family.

Steve

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Date: Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 09:47:22 (GMT)
From: Cultbuster UK
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: A message from the British Government.
Message:
A letter from the British Home Office.

Thank you for your email of 26 September about religious cults. Your email has been passed to the Unit of the Home Office who has responsibility for the policy on new religions and cults.
The Government is well aware of the public concern about the activities of some cults and similar groups. The Government is not complacent about the problems caused by such groups - far from it. The Government has considerable sympathy for those individuals and families, whose lives may have been adversely affected.

It may be helpful if I outline the Governments position on cults generally.

There is no legislation aimed specifically at cults. They are free to follow their own doctrines and practices provided they remain within the existing criminal and common law. This provides a range of general offences which apply to all members of the community including cult members. There would be
considerable difficulties in drawing up legislation specifically aimed at cults. It would be hard to devise objective tests to distinguish between various groups in a way which did not interfere with the right of the individual to choose their own beliefs or lifestyles so long as they do not harm others.
There is also no obvious way in which legislation could be devised to deal with the influence of cults or similar organisations in cases where adults appear to participate in their activities voluntarily. It is even more difficult to see how such a law could be enforced in practice. Of course,
where there is evidence of threats and intimidation that amount to harassment, or other breaches of the law, action is certainly possible. The Government would strongly urge that any evidence of law breaking in any particular case should be reported to the police.

The Government continues to believe that the only way forward is to rely on the criminal and common law, while seeking to warn young people and their families of the dangers which may arise following involvement with a cult.

As you maybe aware there are organisations which provide information, advice and counselling to those who have been affected by cult involvement. Each approaches the subject from a slightly different perspective so it must be for the individual to decide which suits them best.

Names and addresses of two organisations are:
INFORM, Houghton Street, London WC1A 2HD T/N 020 7955 7654

FAIR BCM Box 3535, PO Box 12, London WC1N 3XXT/N 01642 898412

Citizens Advice Bureau may have further details of other advice groups in this field.

The point that you raise about the charitable status of the cult Elan Vital is a matter for the Charity Commission for England and Wales. You can visit their website at www.charity-commission.gov.uk/

and contact the Commission by email at feedback@charity-commission.gov.uk
.

Thank you for taking the time to contact is and I hope the above is of help.

Yours sincerely etc

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Date: Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 07:18:54 (GMT)
From: X
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: beilef systems rule
Message:
you name it
you goit it!

Think about it.
But enjoy yourself.

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Date: Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 09:29:06 (GMT)
From: Hal
Email: None
To: X
Subject: beilef systems rule
Message:
Yeah X , I agree , they do. Some acceptance of belief systems seems innevitable in order to function in this life.

I'm trying to ditch the dysfunctional ones such as having expectations that anything or anyone other than myself is responsible for my fullfilment in life.

Cheers hal

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Date: Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 06:27:17 (GMT)
From: Loaf
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Photos of M
Message:
I was so excited when - in their highly synchronised press pack page Elan Vital - the organ of truth and goodliness offered me a free recent photograph of maharaji. YES I thought - at last - a FREE recent photo of maharaji that I can be glad about and gaze at.

I still have some lying about on my walls and altar.

However - picture my shock and disappointment whan I received the following email- AND IT IS SO NEAR CHRISTMAS TOO !!!!

*************************************************************

Dear Loaf,

We have received a number of letters requesting photos of Maharaji
recently, and we apologize for the delay in responding to you.

It was never our intention to send out, on request, a photo of Maharaji to
readers of the site. This is only the case when a member of the press
contacts us and wants a photo to complete their downloaded press kit. We
did not make this clear and the wording on the site is being changed in
order to clarify this point.

Thank you for your kind interest in the site, and we apologize for any
inconvenience or disappointment you may have experienced regarding your
request for a photo.

Kind regards,
PR/ Elan Vital

***********************************************************

Its all part of a thoroughly synchronised team culture where the right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing !

Loaf

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Date: Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 15:10:07 (GMT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Loaf
Subject: Tsk, tsk
Message:
My condolences, Loaf. Maybe next Christmas.
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Date: Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 02:35:29 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: A passing thought.
Message:
Why is it that when Michael put a posts up we( I should not say we, because shp objects to that) jump up and down?

Just woundering?

Is mike the boogie man?

But I must say that it is nice to see Mike coming to my mere mortal ha-pence level.

I was hopping that he will help me understand that thing about making a miilion then going on to make another million and so on.

It is just I do not understand the relation between money and spirituallity and am suspecting that maybe I have a mental block which is keeping me a million and a half away from my first million.

Heeeeelllppp pleeeeeeetzee

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Date: Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 15:30:20 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: A second passing thought.
Message:
On the other hand, Michael keep talking.

It's just occured to me that a lot of people at EV could be running around with egg on their face because of your 'participation'.

I just hope that they do not find a loop hole in your confidentiality agreement that bans you from posting on this forum. How would you feel about that if they did?

Notice my support on this matter.

Be good

Salam

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Date: Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 09:17:28 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: Crime is the answer Salam
Message:
Hi Salam,

I think I have the answer to your financial problems- crime.

It works for big business, make it work for you.

I'd suggest something where you don't have to hurt anyone, like starting an underground skunk factory or printing your own money.

Anth the full of good advice

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Date: Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 15:20:36 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Anth: u tryin to lead me astray or somethin
Message:
I am tryin to be good you know, and here you are telin me to go and hold a bank or somethin. shame should be faliin you Anth.

I was hopin that whatishisname marajee will come here and participate in this, but I am a thinkin now that maybe the secret to money makin is to have other people doin things for nothin and not get paid while I go crusin and flyin.

Nice seeing you back.

How was the holiday? It was a holiday wasn't it?

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Date: Sun, Oct 15, 2000 at 16:13:18 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: Moi?
Message:
Hi Salam,

Alas, no holiday, I've been charging around Europe going for interviews, as my job in Paris finished a couple of weeks ago.

No- I was only kidding about crime Salam. It's much more stylish to suck blood from the fat cow of capitalism legally.

Adios amigo

Anth the pretend Mexican

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Date: Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 06:29:15 (GMT)
From: Loaf
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: Donations...Its the best way ! (NT)
Message:

woo hoo.

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Date: Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 03:39:13 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: A passing thought.
Message:
Hi Salam -
I am VERY interested in hearing what Michael has to say because he was actually close to Maharaji for a long time. Most of the rest of us on here (premies, too) have only been as close to Maharaji as the darshan line permitted. We can make a lot of guesses about why Maharaji acts as he does - some of which are correct - but it is extremely helpful to hear the opinions of someone who saw Maharaji in action. I think it clears away a lot of illusions.

Re money and spirituality - I can't help you there! I am not really interested in having a lot of money, but I do want enough so that I am not in debt, get to live reasonably comfortably (my standards are not that high), and don't have to worry about getting old. I work in the public sector (state university), so I will never make that much money anyway - and my salary and raises are not very negotiable.

My only suggestion is that you work on feeling like you DESERVE to have enough money to live on, and that your skills, whatever they are, are worth being paid for. This is not a new-agey idea by the way - half of my family and many of my friends have their own businesses and the biggest problem they have is feeling like they are good enough to charge people the market rate for their services and skills.

Take care, Salam!
Love,
Katie

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Date: Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 03:21:41 (GMT)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: A passing thought.
Message:
When you figger out that money thing let me know! I have tried creatively visualizing lots of dollars flowing into my life, but all I seem to get are more stray pets. I have tried releasing my negative thoughts about money and feel truly positive about money indeed, but have yet to see some.However I have lots of good stories to tell and life experience up the wazoo, but it don't pay the bills!

BTW I disagree that people are fawning over Michael. It's just good to hear the perspective of someone who was close to M. It helps me to put together the pieces of the puzzle--like
-who is this guy I surrendered my life to?
-what the hell goes through M's brain?
-what is his attitude towards his premies?

It's freeing to put all the pieces together. It's validating. Like the part of my brain that's been trying to figger it all out can finally say 'Yup, the guy's (M) an asshole! Just as I suspected! 'Nuff said!'

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Date: Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 03:48:50 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Helen
Subject: A passing thought.
Message:
Hi Helen -
You wrote:
BTW I disagree that people are fawning over Michael. It's just good to hear the perspective of someone who was close to M. It helps me to put together the pieces of the puzzle--like
-who is this guy I surrendered my life to?
-what the hell goes through M's brain?
-what is his attitude towards his premies?

It's freeing to put all the pieces together. It's validating. Like the part of my brain that's been trying to figger it all out can finally say 'Yup, the guy's (M) an asshole! Just as I
suspected! 'Nuff said!'

I agree, although I suspect that you, like me, aren't satisfied by the simple explanation that someone you surrendered your life to is an asshole :). I know you studied development - doesn't it seem to you that M is emotionally stunted - stuck in a really early phase. Almost like a baby - we all know that they are totally taking and not giving (which is natural of course). And children are like that too, to a certain extent - which is also natural. It's just not very natural (or attractive) in a guy who is almost 42!

Take care, girlfriend!
Love,
Katie

P.S. The VT QB is VERY easy on the eyes as well as being extremely athletically skilled - so you really might enjoy watching.

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Date: Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 04:02:28 (GMT)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: A passing thought.
Message:
HA HA I do like those tight pants on those athletes!

I know what you mean about it not being a very satisfying explanation that M is simply an asshole. I WISH I had some grand way of fitting him into a developmental model or theory. He *is* like a big spoiled baby! I think the premie trip was definitely a case of arrested development for all of us, an escape from the realities of growing up and a way to go back to a blissful infant state, at one with mommy in the womb. M's needs are different though. He wants to be at one with something else--yachts, airplanes and mansions, I guess! HA HA

Good yakking with ya!
Gotta hit the sack--
Love ya
Helen

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Date: Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 03:36:08 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Helen
Subject: A passing thought.
Message:
Can you answer this question.

Why did I know that you are going to answer my post?

I never had to suspect that marraji was a fraud. I guess that maybe a factor in finding Mike's posts a bit boaring. Though looking at it from an objective point of view he is a bag of information.

So, you do not think that my quest for riches is answerable. Sheesh. I do not know were to go now.

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Date: Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 20:32:26 (GMT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: A passing thought.
Message:
Hi Katie,

I don't think it's fawning over Michael, I just feel a sense of relief that finally, someone who's been so close to M has come forward and validated what we already know.

Children are naturally narcissitic until about age 5 to 7. They naturally believe that the world revolved around them; hence, why they internalize whatever is around them as a) being caused by them; or b) being all about them.

It also happens in the teen years: they seem to revert to that narcissistic phase, but are in bigger bodies. I believe m is terribly sick in this regard. He was perfect master about that 7-8 year old stage and never outgrew it. He may even be stuck in the two year old stage: being prone to temper tantrums when he doesn't get what he wants; has no conscience regarding anything he's done in his life, etc.

Now that he's in his 40s, his toys got bigger and he didn't emotionally. I can't imagine being a child of that person, that's why I think that talking about his kids is an unfair thing to do. As far as Marolyn is concerned, I think she's fair game in discussions here. She was a young adult when she married him, but now she is all grown up. If she stays w/M you know it's got to be for the money.

Just my speculations,
Best,
Cynthia

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Date: Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 22:41:24 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: A passing thought.
Message:
Hi Cynthia -
Good post! I also find what Michael has to say to be very validating.

I think M was encouraged in this narcissm by the way he was treated as a teenager. As you pointed out, teenagers do go through that narcissistic stage as an essential part of their development, but healthy people grow out of it. He even dumped his mom and older brothers when they disagreed with him doing whatever he wanted to do (not that I'm sticking up for them either - it's just a symptom.)

I'm not sure of the validity of not talking about M's kids - I think M was probably brought up in the same way he's bringing up his children. And, at some point, they are going to have to take responsibility for their actions too - in other words, they can't use the 'abused child' excuse. Both his daughters are very active in promoting M and EV, and I think they should take some responsibility for this.

Re Marolyn - I'm also not sure that she's in it 'for the money'. My parents stayed in a mutually abusive, co-dependent, SICK relationship for 27 years because of fear of the unknown alternatives. M and Marolyn have been married for 26 years - what else does she know?

Take care, Cynthia.
Katie

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Date: Sun, Oct 15, 2000 at 02:05:05 (GMT)
From: Bin Liner
Email: None
To: Everyone on this thread
Subject: A passing thought. and another
Message:

Why wouldn't he love his family , or they him ?

Now that I know that he's not 'perfect' , I feel I have to give him the benefit of the doubt as far as his wife & children are concerned.

Just as I give it to myself .

Unfortunately he got himself re-incarnated as Barry Bollix Shwar , & took us all along for the ride.


This is all a very big mess , isn't it.

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Date: Sun, Oct 15, 2000 at 08:52:15 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Bin Liner
Subject: A passing thought. and another
Message:
Hi Bin -
Not exactly sure what you are trying to say in this post. I have no reason to doubt that M loves his family (at least as much as he is capable of) and vice versa. However, this doesn't necessarily mean he is a good parent or husband.

By the way, I am not sure if I have gotten to tell you this, but your pseudonym is great! Is 'bin liner' in the UK the same thing as a 'trash bag' in the US? (a plastic bag that you put inside a garbage container.)

Take care,
Katie

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Date: Sun, Oct 15, 2000 at 13:08:02 (GMT)
From: Bin Liner
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: Yes, Trash Bag is correct ! nt
Message:

nt.

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Date: Sun, Oct 15, 2000 at 18:43:46 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Bin Liner
Subject: 'Bin Liner' is far more sophisticated, though :)nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Sun, Oct 15, 2000 at 04:59:46 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Bin Liner
Subject: A quick passing thought
Message:
Would you say if he 'was' perfect, then he can be execused?

My stand: no. Perfect or no perfect he is a pig.

Maybe Krishna got away with it, because thousands of years ago that is how things were. Not today.

Today there is press and iformation, there are no more caves to hide in. The only alternative is to face the music.

Mahataji has all the symptoms of being a dillude, spoiled imature person.

I just do not see how can anyone in their right mind listen to what he says.

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