Forum V: Archive
Compiled: Sun, Nov 05, 2000 at 03:57:27 (GMT)
From: Oct 26, 2000 To: Nov 03, 2000 Page: 4 Of: 5


Jethro -:- To all closet exs -:- Sat, Oct 28, 2000 at 18:46:41 (GMT)
__ DJURO -:- To all closet exs -:- Sun, Oct 29, 2000 at 23:21:10 (GMT)
__ __ Jethro -:- To all closet exs -:- Mon, Oct 30, 2000 at 08:11:14 (GMT)
__ Stonor -:- But Jethro, what does this mean? -:- Sun, Oct 29, 2000 at 02:21:03 (GMT)
__ __ Jethro -:- But Jethro, what does this mean? -:- Mon, Oct 30, 2000 at 08:14:08 (GMT)
__ Selene -:- and may I add -:- Sun, Oct 29, 2000 at 00:13:05 (GMT)

Salam -:- EXTRA EXTRA READ ALL ABOUT IT -:- Sat, Oct 28, 2000 at 15:58:49 (GMT)
__ Steve Quint -:- Where Are You Salam? -:- Mon, Oct 30, 2000 at 02:39:09 (GMT)
__ Jim -:- How do you subscribe? -- (and a little comment) -:- Sat, Oct 28, 2000 at 19:18:39 (GMT)
__ __ bubble wrap -:- How do you subscribe? -- (and a little comment) -:- Mon, Oct 30, 2000 at 22:04:44 (GMT)
__ __ Salam -:- It Ok Jim, Calm down. Now take a deep breath -:- Sat, Oct 28, 2000 at 22:17:45 (GMT)
__ __ __ AJW -:- How to subscribe -:- Tues, Oct 31, 2000 at 15:41:29 (GMT)
__ cq -:- What a philosopher he is ... ... ... -:- Sat, Oct 28, 2000 at 18:25:26 (GMT)

Salam -:- I just met my first premie since 20 years.. -:- Sat, Oct 28, 2000 at 14:24:41 (GMT)
__ Steve Quint -:- Where Are You, Salam? nt -:- Mon, Oct 30, 2000 at 02:40:15 (GMT)
__ encyclopedia brittainica -:- dump truck or dumb struck (couldn't resist!) nt -:- Sun, Oct 29, 2000 at 22:40:18 (GMT)
__ Black Cat -:- I just met my first premie since 20 years.. -:- Sun, Oct 29, 2000 at 01:37:08 (GMT)
__ __ Salam -:- You obviously have not met Tyson.....nt -:- Sun, Oct 29, 2000 at 12:16:19 (GMT)
__ __ __ Salam -:- Also, you sound like a puffta.....nt -:- Sun, Oct 29, 2000 at 12:17:43 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Black Cat -:- Also, you sound like a puffta.....nt -:- Sun, Oct 29, 2000 at 12:29:39 (GMT)
__ Rob -:- Definately worth going -:- Sun, Oct 29, 2000 at 01:15:03 (GMT)
__ __ Salam -:- Can you say something nasty to Back Cat -:- Sun, Oct 29, 2000 at 12:27:35 (GMT)
__ __ __ Black Cat -:- Can you say something nasty to Back Cat -:- Sun, Oct 29, 2000 at 12:39:21 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Rob -:- Can you say something nasty to Back Cat -:- Sun, Oct 29, 2000 at 19:24:27 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Black Cat -:- Say something Stupid and innane to Black Cat -:- Sun, Oct 29, 2000 at 23:50:39 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ JohnT -:- Shite! It's Shi'ite you foul infidel!! (nt) -:- Sun, Oct 29, 2000 at 17:46:58 (GMT)
__ Steven Quint -:- I just met my first premie since 20 years.. -:- Sat, Oct 28, 2000 at 15:01:13 (GMT)
__ AJW -:- Go for it salam -:- Sat, Oct 28, 2000 at 14:41:30 (GMT)
__ __ Salam -:- Thank you both gentelmen....nt -:- Sat, Oct 28, 2000 at 15:19:37 (GMT)
__ __ __ Disculta -:- How long should we wait if we don't -:- Sat, Oct 28, 2000 at 22:02:27 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Salam -:- How long should we wait if we don't -:- Sat, Oct 28, 2000 at 22:22:17 (GMT)

Buzz -:- your ex.paramparam guru -:- Sat, Oct 28, 2000 at 13:52:34 (GMT)
__ Steven Quint -:- your ex.paramparam guru -:- Sat, Oct 28, 2000 at 14:53:53 (GMT)
__ __ Buzz -:- your ex.paramparam guru -:- Sun, Oct 29, 2000 at 06:40:08 (GMT)
__ __ __ Steven Quint -:- your ex.paramparam guru -:- Sun, Oct 29, 2000 at 08:38:48 (GMT)

janet -:- hangover cure-OT....OT....OTfrom lower down -:- Sat, Oct 28, 2000 at 13:44:01 (GMT)
__ Steve Q. -:- hangover cure-OT....OT....OTfrom lower down -:- Sat, Oct 28, 2000 at 15:37:53 (GMT)
__ __ janet -:- fraid not. after all-he must get hangovers too -:- Sat, Oct 28, 2000 at 22:32:29 (GMT)
__ Salam -:- Was it you that sent me that e-mail? -:- Sat, Oct 28, 2000 at 14:35:44 (GMT)
__ __ janet -:- huh? -:- Sat, Oct 28, 2000 at 22:33:24 (GMT)
__ __ __ Salam -:- Huh heh hoh hah. Is that a yes, no or I don't know -:- Sun, Oct 29, 2000 at 00:08:41 (GMT)

And On Anand Ji -:- Humor and General Interest OT thread -:- Sat, Oct 28, 2000 at 05:50:59 (GMT)
__ JohnT -:- How do you make God laugh? -:- Sun, Oct 29, 2000 at 17:54:58 (GMT)
__ __ And On Anand Ji -:- Quotes - some with humor -:- Sun, Oct 29, 2000 at 18:31:54 (GMT)
__ __ __ Steven Quint -:- Quotes - some with humor -:- Sun, Oct 29, 2000 at 18:36:34 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ a0aji -:- Quotes - some with humor -:- Sun, Oct 29, 2000 at 18:42:21 (GMT)
__ Knockin on H door -:- I'm not saying Im old, but when I go to the -:- Sun, Oct 29, 2000 at 02:31:27 (GMT)
__ Steven Quint -:- Humor and General Interest OT thread -:- Sat, Oct 28, 2000 at 11:02:31 (GMT)

EX -:- ex-premie/exit counselor to visit in near future.. -:- Sat, Oct 28, 2000 at 01:18:49 (GMT)
__ janet -:- my sister took me to hilly in 82... -:- Sat, Oct 28, 2000 at 10:06:37 (GMT)
__ me -:- ex-premie/exit counselor to visit in near future.. -:- Sat, Oct 28, 2000 at 02:57:07 (GMT)
__ __ Cynthia -:- Ted Patrick -:- Sat, Oct 28, 2000 at 22:11:32 (GMT)
__ __ __ bill -:- Ted Patrick stories ^ and \/ -:- Sun, Oct 29, 2000 at 01:28:28 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ a0aji -:- Ted Patrick stories -:- Sun, Oct 29, 2000 at 02:17:52 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- Ted Patrick stories -:- Sun, Oct 29, 2000 at 17:00:00 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ a0aji -:- shram short shrift -:- Sun, Oct 29, 2000 at 22:35:18 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ bill -:- hahaha -:- Mon, Oct 30, 2000 at 02:58:42 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ a0aji -:- hahaha -:- Mon, Oct 30, 2000 at 04:51:35 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ bill -:- hahaha -:- Mon, Oct 30, 2000 at 13:40:18 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ a0aji -:- hahaha -:- Mon, Oct 30, 2000 at 16:50:47 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ bill -:- bill burke stories -:- Sun, Oct 29, 2000 at 20:39:10 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ wThomas -:- bill burke stories -:- Mon, Oct 30, 2000 at 01:08:45 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ a0aji -:- washed and dried and put thru the wringer -:- Sun, Oct 29, 2000 at 22:58:48 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ bill -:- washed and dried and put thru the wringer -:- Mon, Oct 30, 2000 at 03:06:42 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ a0aji -:- washed and dried and put thru the wringer -:- Mon, Oct 30, 2000 at 05:18:18 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ bill -:- washed and dried and put thru the wringer -:- Mon, Oct 30, 2000 at 13:42:32 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- I never knew they ripped off your business!!! -:- Mon, Oct 30, 2000 at 16:35:08 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ a0aji -:- I never knew they ripped off your business!!! -:- Mon, Oct 30, 2000 at 17:22:10 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ a0aji -:- FA - empty post vvvv -:- Sun, Oct 29, 2000 at 19:20:59 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Disculta -:- The Broadripple gal was Jill Katz nt -:- Sun, Oct 29, 2000 at 18:44:15 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- Thanks, I've been trying to think of her name (nt) -:- Mon, Oct 30, 2000 at 16:08:12 (GMT)

The Dolphin -:- The family of M. -:- Fri, Oct 27, 2000 at 22:53:33 (GMT)
__ Djuro -:- The family of M. -:- Sun, Oct 29, 2000 at 23:00:24 (GMT)
__ __ The Dolphin -:- The family of M. -:- Tues, Oct 31, 2000 at 16:51:38 (GMT)
__ __ G -:- The family of M. -:- Mon, Oct 30, 2000 at 04:51:54 (GMT)
__ __ __ Jim -:- G must have been pretty fucking lonely last night -:- Mon, Oct 30, 2000 at 16:26:16 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ G -:- it did seem kind of weird -:- Mon, Oct 30, 2000 at 18:35:05 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- That's abusive, G -:- Mon, Oct 30, 2000 at 23:20:12 (GMT)
__ __ __ The Dolphin -:- I Thanks you for your point of view. nt -:- Mon, Oct 30, 2000 at 14:32:04 (GMT)
__ Salam -:- Maybe -:- Sun, Oct 29, 2000 at 00:20:05 (GMT)
__ __ The Dolphin -:- I don' t like cold water , I prefer it warm -:- Mon, Oct 30, 2000 at 14:54:05 (GMT)
__ Hal -:- The family of M. -:- Sat, Oct 28, 2000 at 07:12:58 (GMT)
__ __ The Dolphin -:- The family of M. -:- Tues, Oct 31, 2000 at 17:00:13 (GMT)
__ __ Djuro -:- The family of M. -:- Mon, Oct 30, 2000 at 00:48:48 (GMT)
__ __ __ Hal -:- Sure I'm sure Djuro- you still sure? nt -:- Mon, Oct 30, 2000 at 07:59:01 (GMT)
__ Selene -:- sounds like you do understand -:- Sat, Oct 28, 2000 at 01:03:31 (GMT)
__ __ The Dolphin -:- I like MAKE understand. -:- Mon, Oct 30, 2000 at 15:04:24 (GMT)

gerry -:- Jagdeo's (and EV's) Fate? I hope so... -:- Fri, Oct 27, 2000 at 20:49:44 (GMT)
__ Steven Quint -:- Jagdeo's (and EV's) Fate? I hope so... -:- Sat, Oct 28, 2000 at 15:29:34 (GMT)
__ Selene -:- gerry any info -:- Sat, Oct 28, 2000 at 00:57:43 (GMT)
__ __ There is no statute of -:- limitations in Florida for abuse by 'Church' elder -:- Sat, Oct 28, 2000 at 13:15:11 (GMT)
__ __ Salam -:- From 40 to 72 is 32years...nt -:- Sat, Oct 28, 2000 at 05:58:24 (GMT)
__ __ __ Cynthia -:- Statutes of Limitation Vary from state to state -:- Sat, Oct 28, 2000 at 22:37:01 (GMT)

Mickey the Pharisee -:- Republicans support Nader! OT -:- Fri, Oct 27, 2000 at 18:44:39 (GMT)
__ G -:- Nader is hurting his causes (OT) -:- Sun, Oct 29, 2000 at 16:23:54 (GMT)
__ __ G -:- Sierra Club responds to Nader (OT) -:- Sun, Oct 29, 2000 at 21:41:06 (GMT)
__ __ G -:- Where the candidates stand (OT) -:- Sun, Oct 29, 2000 at 16:40:16 (GMT)
__ G -:- Daisy ad (OT) -:- Fri, Oct 27, 2000 at 20:38:02 (GMT)
__ __ Mickey the Pharisee -:- Daisy ad (OT) -:- Fri, Oct 27, 2000 at 21:40:03 (GMT)
__ __ __ ExTex -:- Daisy ad (OT) -:- Sat, Oct 28, 2000 at 08:06:42 (GMT)

Yves -:- What is the value of 'KNOWLEDGE' -:- Fri, Oct 27, 2000 at 14:11:27 (GMT)
__ Djuro -:- What is the value of 'KNOWLEDGE' -:- Mon, Oct 30, 2000 at 00:18:24 (GMT)
__ Steven Quint -:- What is the value of 'KNOWLEDGE' -:- Sun, Oct 29, 2000 at 00:59:41 (GMT)
__ Sir Dave -:- What is the value of 'KNOWLEDGE' -:- Sat, Oct 28, 2000 at 02:46:37 (GMT)
__ hamzen -:- What is the value of 'KNOWLEDGE' -:- Fri, Oct 27, 2000 at 23:03:21 (GMT)
__ Scott T. -:- What is the value of 'KNOWLEDGE' -:- Fri, Oct 27, 2000 at 17:31:02 (GMT)
__ Steven Quint -:- What is the value of 'KNOWLEDGE' -:- Fri, Oct 27, 2000 at 14:50:54 (GMT)
__ __ Yves -:- What is the value of 'KNOWLEDGE' -:- Fri, Oct 27, 2000 at 18:52:38 (GMT)
__ __ __ janet of venice -:- What is the value of 'KNOWLEDGE' -:- Fri, Oct 27, 2000 at 21:46:04 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Rick -:- What is the value of 'KNOWLEDGE' -:- Sat, Oct 28, 2000 at 20:19:45 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ dv -:- What is the value of 'KNOWLEDGE' -:- Sat, Oct 28, 2000 at 01:43:11 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Jim -:- unnecessarily rude (nt) -:- Fri, Oct 27, 2000 at 23:26:54 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ blood -:- What is the value of K -:- Fri, Oct 27, 2000 at 23:43:32 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ and guts -:- conga line -:- Fri, Oct 27, 2000 at 23:51:33 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Buy yourself a dictionary -:- Fri, Oct 27, 2000 at 23:54:42 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ and guts -:- Buy yourself a dictionary :: blow me ;) -:- Sat, Oct 28, 2000 at 00:00:44 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Look up 'hyperbole' (nt) -:- Sat, Oct 28, 2000 at 00:08:49 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ a0aji -:- Look up 'hyperbole' (yt) -:- Sat, Oct 28, 2000 at 05:57:52 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Cute ... Hyperbholeji got a limo service, I think -:- Sat, Oct 28, 2000 at 19:22:53 (GMT)

CHR -:- X-rated, and Joe's darshan comments etc. -:- Fri, Oct 27, 2000 at 12:14:30 (GMT)
__ Buddy can you spare a -:- what's a paradigm? (nt) -:- Sat, Oct 28, 2000 at 12:07:45 (GMT)
__ __ Steven Quint -:- what's a paradigm? (nt) -:- Sat, Oct 28, 2000 at 14:38:52 (GMT)
__ __ __ Cynthia -:- what's a paradigm? -:- Sun, Oct 29, 2000 at 16:37:22 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Susan -:- yes, paradigm is very Dilbert -:- Mon, Oct 30, 2000 at 03:44:02 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Steven Quint -:- what's a paradigm? -:- Sun, Oct 29, 2000 at 17:09:40 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- Steven: I agree, much less pretentious:)) (nt) -:- Sun, Oct 29, 2000 at 17:49:47 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Buddy can u spare a pair -:- Is that what's called being paradigmatic? -:- Mon, Oct 30, 2000 at 18:28:05 (GMT)
__ __ ajw -:- a parachutist with a spade (NT) -:- Sat, Oct 28, 2000 at 14:35:15 (GMT)
__ Dv -:- X-rated, and Joe's darshan comments etc. -:- Sat, Oct 28, 2000 at 01:53:22 (GMT)
__ PHD -:- X-rated, and Joe's darshan comments etc. -:- Fri, Oct 27, 2000 at 22:39:46 (GMT)
__ __ CHR -:- X-rated, and Joe's darshan comments etc. -:- Fri, Oct 27, 2000 at 22:51:28 (GMT)
__ __ __ bill -:- X-rated, and Joe's darshan comments etc. -:- Sat, Oct 28, 2000 at 03:03:16 (GMT)
__ __ __ a0aji -:- X-rated, and Joe's darshan comments etc. -:- Fri, Oct 27, 2000 at 23:25:27 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ bill -:- ot -:- Sat, Oct 28, 2000 at 03:59:17 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- ot/Unless you were in the 'in' crowd, but even... -:- Sat, Oct 28, 2000 at 20:45:57 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ bill -:- ot/Unless you were in the 'in' crowd, but even... -:- Sun, Oct 29, 2000 at 01:35:19 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- ot/Unless you were in the 'in' crowd, but even... -:- Sun, Oct 29, 2000 at 16:18:38 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ a0aji -:- ot/Unless you were in the 'in' crowd, but even... -:- Sun, Oct 29, 2000 at 18:40:30 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ bill -:- ot -:- Sun, Oct 29, 2000 at 21:10:07 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ a0aji -:- ot -:- Sun, Oct 29, 2000 at 22:26:09 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ a0aji -:- frank! -:- Mon, Oct 30, 2000 at 04:26:35 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ bill -:- frank! -:- Mon, Oct 30, 2000 at 13:44:26 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- frank! -:- Mon, Oct 30, 2000 at 15:53:03 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ a0aji -:- frank! -:- Mon, Oct 30, 2000 at 17:39:56 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- nancy! -:- Mon, Oct 30, 2000 at 20:58:07 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ a0aji -:- nancy! -:- Tues, Oct 31, 2000 at 02:46:28 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ bill -:- ot -:- Mon, Oct 30, 2000 at 03:12:02 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ a0aji -:- service opp. and the hogs who stole it -:- Sat, Oct 28, 2000 at 05:36:29 (GMT)
__ Joe -:- X-rated, and Joe's darshan comments etc. -:- Fri, Oct 27, 2000 at 17:16:56 (GMT)
__ TD -:- Question about darshan .... -:- Fri, Oct 27, 2000 at 16:25:10 (GMT)
__ __ Nigel -:- ...and a cotton foot-condom which doesn't -:- Mon, Oct 30, 2000 at 20:11:44 (GMT)
__ __ Dv -:- Question about darshan .... -:- Sat, Oct 28, 2000 at 02:06:42 (GMT)
__ __ janet -:- Question about darshan .... -:- Fri, Oct 27, 2000 at 22:38:10 (GMT)
__ __ __ a0aji -:- Question about darshan .... -:- Fri, Oct 27, 2000 at 23:10:20 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ bill -:- Question about darshan .... -:- Sat, Oct 28, 2000 at 03:12:57 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ janet -:- nope. THATS wrong. once again i must... -:- Sat, Oct 28, 2000 at 12:38:29 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ a0aji -:- Question about darshan .... -:- Sat, Oct 28, 2000 at 05:10:39 (GMT)
__ __ __ CHR -:- Question about darshan .... -:- Fri, Oct 27, 2000 at 22:56:32 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ janet -:- when i get my story up, you won't -:- Sat, Oct 28, 2000 at 12:39:48 (GMT)
__ __ __ alex -:- Question about darshan,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,nice (nt) -:- Fri, Oct 27, 2000 at 22:44:01 (GMT)
__ __ __ Jim -:- isthishowyoutalkinreallife,janet? (nt) -:- Fri, Oct 27, 2000 at 22:41:56 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ janet -:- f**k off jim-the final post doesnt match... -:- Sat, Oct 28, 2000 at 12:46:56 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ JohnT -:- yes, I think I understand -:- Sat, Oct 28, 2000 at 15:24:27 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ janet of venice -:- yes, I think I understand -:- Sat, Oct 28, 2000 at 22:55:30 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ a0aji -:- [applause] nice HTML solo, JohnT! -nt- -:- Sat, Oct 28, 2000 at 18:41:21 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ JohnT -:- I'll do an encore! (more HTML) -:- Sat, Oct 28, 2000 at 19:28:18 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ cq -:- The impossible dream: -:- Mon, Oct 30, 2000 at 18:19:33 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ a0aji -:- The impossible dream: -:- Mon, Oct 30, 2000 at 19:57:40 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ a0aji -:- The impossible dream: -:- Mon, Oct 30, 2000 at 20:06:21 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ a0aji -:- I'll do an encore! (more HTML) -:- Sun, Oct 29, 2000 at 01:49:21 (GMT)
__ __ Steven Quint -:- Question about darshan .... -:- Fri, Oct 27, 2000 at 16:45:24 (GMT)
__ __ __ jondon -:- Question about darshan .... -:- Fri, Oct 27, 2000 at 23:49:23 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ janet -:- charanamrit -:- Sat, Oct 28, 2000 at 12:59:59 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Bin Liner -:- Charged water sounds like -:- Sat, Oct 28, 2000 at 22:30:02 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Hal -:- Absolutely true Jondon............. -:- Sat, Oct 28, 2000 at 10:05:26 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Steven Quintt -:- Question about darshan .... -:- Sat, Oct 28, 2000 at 00:12:39 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ a0aji -:- Question about darshan .... -:- Fri, Oct 27, 2000 at 23:56:18 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- Holy Water/Darshan -:- Sat, Oct 28, 2000 at 21:11:07 (GMT)


Date: Sat, Oct 28, 2000 at 18:46:41 (GMT)
From: Jethro
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: To all closet exs
Message:
Here is a copy of a message on the ex-satsangi site.

YOU MIGHT BE AN EX IF...

You've never given a cent to the manipulative schmucks cause deep down in your heart your knew it was a sham.

You quietly slink away at the mere mention of 'a wonderful seva opportunity'.

You unconsciously sit near an exit during Satsang so that you can quickly retreat to the nearest porcelain receptacle, just in case your sensitive stomach can't handle the rhetoric.

You still take offense even after years of being characterized as a maggot on a rotting dog's butt.

You shudder when you find that awful rag of an RS newsletter in your mailbox, and then delight in perusing the Victoria Secret catalog that came the same day.

You catch yourself enjoying sex on occasion.

You've thought of ordering a Pizza with extra rennet, just to protest!

You are successful at your own business or artistic endeavor, and not ashamed of your success.

You miraculously have some small measure of self-esteem left after years of spiritual abuse.

You find yourself doggedly pursuing some 'frivolous' deep-seated lifelong dream.

You come to the painful conclusion that you have absolutely nothing in common with your fellow Satsangis except for the neuroses of Sant Mat.

Misery Loves Company is the dominant theme of your Satsangi social gatherings.

You decide that a thimbleful of unfertilized egg in your longtime fellow workers 'going away' cakeisn't worth the price of insulting and alienating a roomful of people you care about.

You decide to not break your neck getting to the Seva site this weekend despite the rumored appearance, because if God in human form had a shred of decency he would announce his plans just like any civil and polite mortal would do! (Of course not as many people would show up and do seva in the hope of a glimpse if they actually knew his itinerary.)

And finally, any time you have any of the above thoughts, you are angry with yourself for feeling guilty
about questioning da Path. Oh, what a tortured twist of logic!

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Oct 29, 2000 at 23:21:10 (GMT)
From: DJURO
Email: None
To: Jethro
Subject: To all closet exs
Message:
It seams you are wasting your time
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Oct 30, 2000 at 08:11:14 (GMT)
From: Jethro
Email: None
To: DJURO
Subject: To all closet exs
Message:
Yes I did waste over 25 years.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Oct 29, 2000 at 02:21:03 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: Jethro
Subject: But Jethro, what does this mean?
Message:
You decide that a thimbleful of unfertilized egg in your longtime fellow workers 'going away' cakeisn't worth the price of insulting and alienating a roomful of people you care about.

OK, I'm ignorant ... enlighten me!

Stonor

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Oct 30, 2000 at 08:14:08 (GMT)
From: Jethro
Email: None
To: Stonor
Subject: But Jethro, what does this mean?
Message:
Actually I don't know either. I hadn't noticed the word 'unfertilized' and thought it was referrimg to using eggs in making cakes.
Anyway I'll ask the person who wrote it and let you know.

Jethro

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Oct 29, 2000 at 00:13:05 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Jethro
Subject: and may I add
Message:
You had not an ounce of patience for the endless awful videos presented for hours before and after M's one hour appearance
(90's style)
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Oct 28, 2000 at 15:58:49 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: EXTRA EXTRA READ ALL ABOUT IT
Message:
There is no news like elan news

http://www.evnewsletter.org/

er ye go Jim. Something for you.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Oct 30, 2000 at 02:39:09 (GMT)
From: Steve Quint
Email: sequint@home.com
To: Salam
Subject: Where Are You Salam?
Message:
Salam, where the heck are you? I'm getting worried.

Steve

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Oct 28, 2000 at 19:18:39 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: How do you subscribe? -- (and a little comment)
Message:
I'd like to subscribe to this cybertract but it seems I need a previously-arranged password. Any ideas?

Also, that first satsang ..... this idiot would really have the whole world pretend they were babies so that he could be the one adult on the planet?

Too much, too fucking much.

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Date: Mon, Oct 30, 2000 at 22:04:44 (GMT)
From: bubble wrap
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: How do you subscribe? -- (and a little comment)
Message:
any old password will do
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Oct 28, 2000 at 22:17:45 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: It Ok Jim, Calm down. Now take a deep breath
Message:
I really do not know how to subscribe. But I will ask my (new)premie friend and find out.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Oct 31, 2000 at 15:41:29 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: How to subscribe
Message:
Hi Salam,

just follow the on screen instructions. The password is only needed if you decide to change your email address.

Anth the subscriber

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Date: Sat, Oct 28, 2000 at 18:25:26 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: What a philosopher he is ... ... ...
Message:
... not!

.
.
.
And this is on the EV website???
.

Look out Socrates, here come the Maha!


'People say, 'Oh, yes, you
know, all this stuff—enjoying
all this and that, and that,
and Knowledge, you know, is
that real?' Well, let's put all
that aside for a minute, we'll
discuss that later. Let's talk
about life. Is life real?

It's about as real as reality
gets. You're here. You exist. You can touch, you can feel, you
can listen. You have the capability. You have the ability to enjoy

This is brought to you, courtesy of existence. '


.
.
.
Courtesy of existence? Wow, far out. Maharaji. (you mean it isn't courtesy of ... non-existence?)


And not so very long ago you were saying is was all courtesy of the 'Perfect Master' (of course the old-school of premies know you still mean to imply that).

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Date: Sat, Oct 28, 2000 at 14:24:41 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: I just met my first premie since 20 years..
Message:
20 years ago when I was a (can’t say it) we were friend. I have not seen this person since I gave the lord of the universe the finger. Last week another premie from 10 years ago (you can see how my relations are) sent me an e-mail saying that this person was in Australia. So I got in touch and made a date for today. This morning, I had to shave, wash (what a thing to do on a saturday) and put my smokes in my pocket and head for the rendezvous.

Today was my big day. The first thing that happened is I had a stealth attack. I was suddenly presented with my package. A tape of blubber, a free invitation (can you imagine that) for a satellite link (tomorrow), a program for video presentations during the coming month and something else I can’t remember.

Anyway I had two nice Copacinos and some nice Greek cookies (with fine sugar sprinckeled on them, I was planning to eat all the jar) while I enjoyed myself swearing at blubber in front of a premie. Very interesting face expressions she had. So I told this person a couple of thing. She said the she never heard of the seven million dollar boat, which was an eye opening. Talked a bit about some of our favorite topics, like Jadgeo and how EV removed their claim from their website after playing the dummies. I told her about MD, which again she seemed ignorant off. She did not look like she read any of that mind stuff on EV FAQ, so I told here were to find it. The 22 million do-llars plane was not really important, he did need it for bussiness. Did not get into delapitated houses, I was short on time.

There were things said like praying (which made my ears tingle a bit). She never heard marraje asking for money and stuff like that, which I found very enjoyable. I noticed that she got dump struck every now and then hearing me saying stuff like that. Duhh what you talking about kind of thing. Unfortunately we could not spend enough time for me to have good fun. So we decided to meet next week. But hey, I am thinking of doing the Steven Quint flip and go to the video event, I do need to get updated on stuff like that (and maybe I come across some nice gossip, you do not know).

I do have a little problem though, I did not take my intro package, maybe I should call her tomorrow so we can go together, kind of smuggle me in, walk hand in hand, they probably think we are lovers or something. What do you think? I think I will be enjoying myself for the next few weeks.

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Date: Mon, Oct 30, 2000 at 02:40:15 (GMT)
From: Steve Quint
Email: sequint@home.com
To: Salam
Subject: Where Are You, Salam? nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Sun, Oct 29, 2000 at 22:40:18 (GMT)
From: encyclopedia brittainica
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: dump truck or dumb struck (couldn't resist!) nt
Message:
Sorry!!
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Date: Sun, Oct 29, 2000 at 01:37:08 (GMT)
From: Black Cat
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: I just met my first premie since 20 years..
Message:
Do you wanna come with me Salam. Meet me for coffee and I'll be happy to help. You tell me where. We could meet at 6 O Clock and stroll down there. You up to it or just full of shit?
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Date: Sun, Oct 29, 2000 at 12:16:19 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Black Cat
Subject: You obviously have not met Tyson.....nt
Message:
Woof.
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Date: Sun, Oct 29, 2000 at 12:17:43 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: Also, you sound like a puffta.....nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Sun, Oct 29, 2000 at 12:29:39 (GMT)
From: Black Cat
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: Also, you sound like a puffta.....nt
Message:
The spelling of the word is Poofter. (You wont find that on Spellcheck!) Just a silly little question for my new countryman. Why?
So did you go big boy? Or is it more of those hot falafel Arabian poofter love calls dribbling from your.....What is that Salam? What end of the pipe am I looking at?

But if you are genuine and don't want to just hide in the corner and sling Shit (Very Australian Huh?), why dont you arrange to meet me . Your choice. (Nah I dont like the Cauldron or the Hellfire club) Come on Salam . Or are you really just another roll of baloney.

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Date: Sun, Oct 29, 2000 at 01:15:03 (GMT)
From: Rob
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: Definately worth going
Message:
Hey, if nothing else, maybe you'll get laid?

very funny post Salam - not sure if you meant to be so, but your mangled English is simply charming. I especially liked
she got dump struck and I enjoyed myself swearing at blubber in front of a premie

Lovely stuff. Let us know how it goes.

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Date: Sun, Oct 29, 2000 at 12:27:35 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Rob
Subject: Can you say something nasty to Back Cat
Message:
I will owe you a coffee.
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Date: Sun, Oct 29, 2000 at 12:39:21 (GMT)
From: Black Cat
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: Can you say something nasty to Back Cat
Message:
Now Rob and I go back away. He chooses not to communicate with me. PS The name is Cat, Black Cat. I am a Falangist Muslim Shite Druze Christian Lebanese Palestinian Hamas Time bomb. Jim is wrong .Most Aussies disagree with the Israeli postion. So don't be scared , I'm quite civilised and I wouldn't harm you (or wish to have Sex with you!) . Where do you live . Melbourne? Sydney? Perth ? Brisbane? Adelaide? Or maybe Bullamakanka? Straight up. Most of the denizens here know where I come from. Where do you reside Mr Primus .com.au??
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Date: Sun, Oct 29, 2000 at 19:24:27 (GMT)
From: Rob
Email: None
To: Catweasel
Subject: Can you say something nasty to Back Cat
Message:
I'd talk to you if I thought you had a brain, Cat. As it is, all you seem capable of is thinly disguised macho posturing. Go wave your dick around somewhere else, will ya?
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Date: Sun, Oct 29, 2000 at 23:50:39 (GMT)
From: Black Cat
Email: None
To: Rob
Subject: Say something Stupid and innane to Black Cat
Message:
Pathetic Rob, Pathetic. Who is doing the Male posturing here? Very interesting the way you have fought long and hard for credibility here Mr Rob. Only place you'll get it.
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Date: Sun, Oct 29, 2000 at 17:46:58 (GMT)
From: JohnT
Email: None
To: Black Cat
Subject: Shite! It's Shi'ite you foul infidel!! (nt)
Message:
NO TEXT
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Date: Sat, Oct 28, 2000 at 15:01:13 (GMT)
From: Steven Quint
Email: sequint@home.com
To: Salam
Subject: I just met my first premie since 20 years..
Message:
If you go the event, may God be with you.

Steve

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Date: Sat, Oct 28, 2000 at 14:41:30 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: Go for it salam
Message:
we'll expect a full report in your best handwriting by the end of the month>

mr ginn the teacher

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Date: Sat, Oct 28, 2000 at 15:19:37 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Thank you both gentelmen....nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Sat, Oct 28, 2000 at 22:02:27 (GMT)
From: Disculta
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: How long should we wait if we don't
Message:
hear from you? Will you promise to take a designated driver to the event and call us as soon as you get home so we don't worry ourselves sick about you.

Worried in the U.S>

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Date: Sat, Oct 28, 2000 at 22:22:17 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Disculta
Subject: How long should we wait if we don't
Message:
Good point. I am going while there is still light. And doing so when coming back. If I am back calling blubber HIM and no-lije HIS then you know I am gone. This is the signal to send in the troops.
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Date: Sat, Oct 28, 2000 at 13:52:34 (GMT)
From: Buzz
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: your ex.paramparam guru
Message:
www.rsdayal.org/guru5.html
www.maharaji.org/masters/ssjrn.htm
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Date: Sat, Oct 28, 2000 at 14:53:53 (GMT)
From: Steven Quint
Email: sequint@home.com
To: Buzz and All
Subject: your ex.paramparam guru
Message:
I've wondered for a long time, as the dates are different (1884 - 1936 vs. 1881 - 1937 and the faces quite different of the guy on Mahaha's site and the guy called 'Sahabji Maharaj' on the Radhasoami site. Some friends of mine have assumed or thought that the two were the same. Do you think the Indians are bright enough to get birth and death dates right?

Anybody know for sure if these two guys are the same and if not why their names are so similar?

Does anybody care?

Steve

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Date: Sun, Oct 29, 2000 at 06:40:08 (GMT)
From: Buzz
Email: None
To: Steven Quint
Subject: your ex.paramparam guru
Message:
Hi Steve,
But can't you see that the glasses are the same!!!
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Date: Sun, Oct 29, 2000 at 08:38:48 (GMT)
From: Steven Quint
Email: sequint@home.com
To: Buzz and Everyone
Subject: your ex.paramparam guru
Message:
Not true. Sahabji Maharaj, aka Sir Anand Swarup Kt, is wearing round glasses, while Sri Swarupanand Ji Maharaj's glasses are oval.

This is obviously another Indian mind-fuck. Seeing that there are virtually no Indian products in a country of one billion that are internationally renowned, if you forget about incense, I postulate that India's prime export is mind-fucking, and that we are the world's experts on this.

Any comments?

Steve

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Date: Sat, Oct 28, 2000 at 13:44:01 (GMT)
From: janet
Email: None
To: steve quint
Subject: hangover cure-OT....OT....OTfrom lower down
Message:
steve--some things to know and use:

OFF TOPIC--OK? OFF TOPIC!! SEE? O-T?

is it ok if i help the guy? anybody mind? i beleive there are a few drinkers present?

alcohol depletes you of water. you must replace it. drink a lotta water.

alcohol sterilizes your intestinal tract. it kills all the beneficial bacteria that digest you r food for you and make b vitamins, which feed your nerves. kill the bacteria, kill all digestion, kill the vitamin B production, nerves start frying..

solution: put back the normal bacteria. eat yogurt with live cultures. drink miso soup no warmer than your finger can stand to be immersed in. eat natural sauerkraut if you can find it.

once you have food in your stomach, take a multi mega B complex. if youre nauseous, take extra b6. if you drink as a habit, take more b 12. nausea can be controlled with B6, no mater what the cause. morning sickness, hangover, motion sicknes-it works on them all. you can induce nausea by witholding B6 from someone's diet.

don't expect to recover in ten minutes. more like a day.drink water till you piss. rest. sleep if you can. if you think you're hurtng your liver, get milk thistle tea. it stops cirrhosis. take it daily.

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Date: Sat, Oct 28, 2000 at 15:37:53 (GMT)
From: Steve Q.
Email: sequint@home.com
To: janet
Subject: hangover cure-OT....OT....OTfrom lower down
Message:
I think I got it. Read some of the Mahahaha's words. You'll throw up and the nausea will be gone.

Thanks,

Steve

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Date: Sat, Oct 28, 2000 at 22:32:29 (GMT)
From: janet
Email: None
To: Steve Q.
Subject: fraid not. after all-he must get hangovers too
Message:
and doesn't the sound of your own voice hurt you, when you, wake up pounding?

heh heh...revenge is sweet, isn't it?

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Date: Sat, Oct 28, 2000 at 14:35:44 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: Was it you that sent me that e-mail?
Message:
You know, the thing that popped out in your mail box.
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Date: Sat, Oct 28, 2000 at 22:33:24 (GMT)
From: janet
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: huh?
Message:
asdfghjkl;
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Date: Sun, Oct 29, 2000 at 00:08:41 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: Huh heh hoh hah. Is that a yes, no or I don't know
Message:
what your talking about. E-mail me at and I tell what it is.

salam_au@iprimus.com.au.

Salam

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Date: Sat, Oct 28, 2000 at 05:50:59 (GMT)
From: And On Anand Ji
Email: and_on_anand@yahoo.com
To: Everyone
Subject: Humor and General Interest OT thread
Message:
Be funny. Be interesting! Be off-topic.
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Date: Sun, Oct 29, 2000 at 17:54:58 (GMT)
From: JohnT
Email: None
To: And On Anand Ji
Subject: How do you make God laugh?
Message:
Tell him your plans.
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Date: Sun, Oct 29, 2000 at 18:31:54 (GMT)
From: And On Anand Ji
Email: and_on_anand@yahoo.com
To: JohnT
Subject: Quotes - some with humor
Message:
When users see one GUI as beautiful,
other user interfaces become ugly.
When users see some programs as winners,
other programs become lossage.

Pointers and NULLs reference each other.
High level and assembler depend on each other.
Double and float cast to each other.
High-endian and low-endian define each other.
While and until follow each other.

Therefore the Guru
programs without doing anything
and teaches without saying anything.
Warnings arise and he lets them come;
processes are swapped and he lets them go.
He has but doesn't possess,
acts but doesn't expect.
When his work is done, he deletes it.
That is why it lasts forever.

# # #

nolo contendere:
A legal term meaning: 'I didn't do it, judge, and I'll never do it again.'

# # #

'To you I'm an atheist; to God, I'm the Loyal Opposition.'
-- Woody Allen

# # #

'There was, it appeared, a mysterious rite of initiation through which, in one way or another, almost every member of the team passed. The term that the old hands used for this rite -- West invented the term, not the practice -- was `signing up.' By signing up for the project you agreed to do whatever was necessary for success. You agreed to forsake, if necessary, family, hobbies, and friends -- if you had any of these left (and you might not, if you had signed up too many times before).
-- Tracy Kidder, 'The Soul of a New Machine'

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Date: Sun, Oct 29, 2000 at 18:36:34 (GMT)
From: Steven Quint
Email: sequint@home.com
To: And On Anand Ji
Subject: Quotes - some with humor
Message:
A fellow C programmer? C++?

Steve

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Date: Sun, Oct 29, 2000 at 18:42:21 (GMT)
From: a0aji
Email: None
To: Steven Quint
Subject: Quotes - some with humor
Message:
I dabble in C (no C++ at all) perl, HTML and shell scripts. And about a thousand little things that go into a Linux box.

Chris

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Date: Sun, Oct 29, 2000 at 02:31:27 (GMT)
From: Knockin on H door
Email: None
To: And On Anand Ji
Subject: I'm not saying Im old, but when I go to the
Message:
grocery store, I no longer buy the green bananas.
.
.
.
.
.
.Steve Quint, that means, he may not live till they ripen!

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Date: Sat, Oct 28, 2000 at 11:02:31 (GMT)
From: Steven Quint
Email: sequint@home.com
To: And On Anand Ji and All
Subject: Humor and General Interest OT thread
Message:
Life is a joke.

Steve

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Date: Sat, Oct 28, 2000 at 01:18:49 (GMT)
From: EX
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: ex-premie/exit counselor to visit in near future..
Message:
I wanted to share some information with everyone that may come through in the next few weeks.

I was talking with an old friend and ex-premie since the early 80's.

His name is Hilly Zeitlin...I knew him in Syracuse,NY.

He was deprogrammed (he said it wasn't hard to deprogram him, as he was seeing many things by that time that were hard to reconcile)by some of Ted Patrick's boys and then became an exit counselor himself for many years in California.

He is a therapist/social worker and has worked with anti-cult groups for years. He had many interesting things to say today and said that he would be happy to contribute to the EPO site and would be available to help in ways that he might be able to.

He is a very nice guy and was interested in the site and recent developments.

We will be talking in the next few weeks. I am looking forward to his contributions...

If anyone would like to post questions for him, I will collect them and forward them to him....

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Date: Sat, Oct 28, 2000 at 10:06:37 (GMT)
From: janet
Email: None
To: EX
Subject: my sister took me to hilly in 82...
Message:
but i wasnt ready to listen then. i am now. when he comes over i mean to be here to pay atention.
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Date: Sat, Oct 28, 2000 at 02:57:07 (GMT)
From: me
Email: None
To: EX
Subject: ex-premie/exit counselor to visit in near future..
Message:
Did Ted Patrick or his helpers talk about Bob Mishler and quote him? Were some ex premies working on a as-needed basis with the deprogrammers? Available to talk to by phone if needed?

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Date: Sat, Oct 28, 2000 at 22:11:32 (GMT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Ted Patrick
Message:
Hi All,

My first experience with Ted Patrick was in Hartford, CT. Actually it was at the Atlantic City program in 1976, I believe. We stayed at a *sister's* family vacation home and found a 'signed' copy of Patrick's book in the bookcase and got quite alarmed.

Shortly after that, this young woman was then kidnapped from the Bond St. premie house (it wasn't an ashram at that point, I think) by Ted Patrick and his team. They took her to Philly, where her family lived (her father was a dentist). bill might remember this. Another premie (bill, you know who..SR) whose father had money and influence and was also an attorney and state legislator, arranged a private flight so they could quickly get to Philly and force the family and Patrick to bring her to court on a writ of habeas corpus ad subjiciendum, and she was brought to the courthouse. She came back with the premies. When she got back to Hartford, she was clearly confused and upset.

She was again taken by Ted Patrick, et al, and was then deprogrammed and never came back. Apparently Patrick's MO was to have his team do all of the heavy deprogramming stuff, whatever it was they did, then Patrick would come in as a kind, doting father image, be on her side type of thing. It worked. Then one day on Bond St., one of the cars which the premie house used was taken away by someone (can't remember who took it)...the car was in her name!

The other time was at Miami Beach at the Broadripple. An initiator, whose name I can't remember was also 'kidnapped' by Patrick. When it became known that she had actually been snatched, everyone was on 'high alert.' Within one or two days, she had convinced the Patrick team that she was deprogrammed, and asked to go back to the Broadripple to collect her personal belongings, and the deprogrammers and her parents came with her. Once she got into the building (which was private leased property), she gave the 'eye' to a honcho who followed them up to her room, and she essentially told the deprogrammers to fuck off. They had no choice but to leave her and the building. I don't know whatever became of that woman, but everyone at the Broadripple was very triumphant...at the time Patrick was the devil to cult members-although, of course, we never believed at the time we were in a cult.

It was strange to watch that process happen. Looking back, I am so glad that woman from Hartford got deprogrammed at an early age. I don't know what became of her, but her parents were well off, so I hope she is living a good life.

Cynthia

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Date: Sun, Oct 29, 2000 at 01:28:28 (GMT)
From: bill
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: Ted Patrick stories ^ and \/
Message:
Hi Cynthia,
I happened to be at the bond st ashram the day she came for the car in her name.
I got her the keys and wished her well.
The ashram premies were all aghast and of course I was considered
a traitor for that.
Hey, the car was in her name!
Steve bottaro, as much of a weak backstabber as he was, was not in hartford during that era, and his ex girlfriend, Jackie Corn, was the (ex) premie in question, he said later that I was the perfect person to have been there at that time and I did the right thing. Steve decieved me and Chris Hafey in the most insidious way during his reign.
I forgive him because it worked out much better for me and Chris as a result of his deception. Not that he knew that would be the case.

The initator at the broadripple you mention, got to her room and turned around and said to her parents, 'I never want to see you two again.'

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Date: Sun, Oct 29, 2000 at 02:17:52 (GMT)
From: a0aji
Email: None
To: bill
Subject: Ted Patrick stories
Message:
Yeah. I was there the night of (I guess now) the second kidnapping. I was stunned when I heard about it. It was weird, wondering what was going to be done about it, if anything. All that paramilitary fantasy stuff in the brothers was just under the surface -- you could see the wheels turning behind calculating eyes.

Everyone (I dare say!) was fully in their mind (as it were) trying to get a handle on this :) If anyone went to Philly to go after her, I think M.A. was one and maybe G.S. or even S.B. (I thought SB was there, but I don't remember very much actually). I was of course itching to go myself. I don't remember if anyone made the trip, but I never saw J.C. again.

I also remember being in that house in Atlantic City.

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Date: Sun, Oct 29, 2000 at 17:00:00 (GMT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: a0aji
Subject: Ted Patrick stories
Message:
Hi bill and a0aji,

I was still with SR at his family home when Jackie was first taken and remember the discussions and plans about what to do. They definitely went to Philly via a private plane. Though SR's parents always had a hard time with his involvement with the cult, they were outraged that a 'kidnapping' had taken place, and SR's father took action.

I don't remember who went to Philly--I know SR's father did, and and it's likely Steve B. went, too, you know, to 'comfort' her with satsang on the way home. I honestly can't remember if Scott went--but, then, I have quite a few memory blocks about him--my addled brain has a hard time with these things as you've probably noticed.

bill, good for you for giving out the keys to the car, I'd forgotten it was you. Naughty boy, bill. That must have gotten you a D- on your ashram entrance exam!!:)))

I never could understand why you were not allowed into the ashram. It really pissed me off. So much elitism (sp?)!!!

What a world....
Best, Cynthia

P.S. I have a lot of trouble with names and dates, so I appreciate it when I post something and the names and dates are wrong and anyone, please feel free to correct me.

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Date: Sun, Oct 29, 2000 at 22:35:18 (GMT)
From: a0aji
Email: None
To: hartford
Subject: shram short shrift
Message:
My post seems to have vanished. Here is is again:

Hehehe.

As I remember it, there was no good reason for not admitting Bill into the ashram. The only thing I could think of is that he was essentially a happy person. That probably pissed people off.

(Actually, I just remembered what it was. That's his story to tell. :)

Me -- I didn't have a job, and that really grated on T.K. and M.A. We had a lot of redneck premies in Hartford :) At the time I was crushed because I wanted everything to be as simple as possible, and I thought opportunity would come knocking. I still think that way, actually; nobody ever comes knocking though. :)

I think the real problem was elaborate expectation sets that weren't verified at all, ahead of time. I lost at least one good, steady job I had during that general period, due to the premie lifestyle of dropping everything for Hans Jayanti in Rome (for instance). I don't think I was in the ashram more than four months or so, and then I was given some bullshit story of how I was to be living in lieu of living in the ashram, by living two doors up the street, in an apartment.

This all does go back to just one thing: living in the ashram meant getting woken up by a premie instead of a machine, meditating together, eating together, going to satsang together, coming back to the ashram together and meditating together. It was like being in a family, sometimes (except for the humorless grinches who frequented such places and threw their weight around).

Nothing was discussed in the open (well, that would have meant openly being in our minds, which wasn't allowed by cult precepts). There really was no room at all for having any voice in a forum -- all deals were back-room deals, where premies could secretly conspire in groups of two and three, build coalitions -- very much like Big Brother and Survivor. I was much too young (just 18) to understand that nobody was playing fair, but not so young that I was unable to catalog experiences that I could then sort out when I got older (like, now :)

Jonn said (as Blue Max) that he took Maharaji at his word .. well goddammit so did I! Or so I thought. I thought that meant by giving up some things and moving into the ashram, I would get the things I needed, which was basically a safe place to live, safe people to live with, and a quiet place to practice Knowledge and live the life of the renunciate.

I was trying to escape an alcoholic family system, so naturally the chaotic nature of the DLM family system appealed to me: looked just like home did to me. :)

There were all kinds of examples where to take Maharaji at his word meant one thing; nobody was doing that because it was insane to take him literally -- but we were still all expecting everyone else to take Maharaji at his literal, and insane, word. So, for instance, I was expecting the other surrendered premies to do their services [jobs] without complaint.

Ha!

TK was particularly resentful, because he worked his ass off -- he didn't adapt his work ethic one iota; he just hung a new label on it: service and couldn't get why nobody else saw service this way. Fair and understandable (essentially, TK refused to interpret insanity insanely; he just went on in his highly functional way, ignoring the obvious fact that he was living in a completely different world than the rest of us who took Maharaji literally.

M.A. caught on fast -- adopted TK's view, since he also worked his ass off (both did real work for real money and probably carried the bulk of the financial burden of the ashram; at least it looked like that's what was going on).

[Present/Right Now (then, first posting): Wow it is really snowing outside, but doesn't stick].

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Date: Mon, Oct 30, 2000 at 02:58:42 (GMT)
From: bill
Email: None
To: a0aji
Subject: hahaha
Message:
Your rememberance of Mark Aliamo being a good worker who worked his ass off makes me laugh.

He worked for me! I wouldnt catagorize his work style quite that way. But, innocent and generous as you were/are, you grant him
that. He worked for me for a couple years till the ashram stole the business. I guess they wanted the cash cow.

I still remember your invention of a rigged up system where the alarm clark turns on a satsang tape. You were the best evacuee possible out of that house and I was lucky I got you.

Reading your post is interesting, what IS that story you are refering to about me? I cant recall yet.

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Date: Mon, Oct 30, 2000 at 04:51:35 (GMT)
From: a0aji
Email: None
To: bill
Subject: hahaha
Message:
Reading your post is interesting, what IS that story you are refering to about me? I cant recall yet.

Your student loan. You went to ER and had a debt -- as far as I was concerned, that was all they had on you, keeping you out of the ashram.

MA and TK played the 'I work hard for the money' routine to the hilt -- TK especially. TK was a lot like my father, so I both liked and feared him -- he was volatile. There were several men who were one way when blissed out by this beautiful experience, and quite another when not. You could count on 'not'.

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Date: Mon, Oct 30, 2000 at 13:40:18 (GMT)
From: bill
Email: None
To: a0aji
Subject: hahaha
Message:
Hmm, who was ER?
Well, that student loan saved my life then!
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Date: Mon, Oct 30, 2000 at 16:50:47 (GMT)
From: a0aji
Email: None
To: bill
Subject: hahaha
Message:
Emory...
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Date: Sun, Oct 29, 2000 at 20:39:10 (GMT)
From: bill
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: bill burke stories
Message:
Hi Cynthia,

Actually the story is not what you think.

For starters, Chris Hafey was IN the ashram, and the 'brothers' were moving to Oxford St.
Steve Bottaro took me for a drive and said I 'was NOW IN the ashram' but he wanted me stay where I lived and to let Chris Hafey move in with me in the upper bond apt that was two doors up from the bond street ashram that was now going to be just a 'sisters' ashram.

The reason, he said, was that he wanted some ashram 'brothers' to live close to the sisters house in case they had a need (for brothers?). For me, I took the news seriously and accepted the ashram assignment. Chris, who I really liked always, moved in and the 'brothers' moved to thier house and the sisters to thiers.

I had a painting business that employed 2 and sometimes more ashram brothers and 2 non ashram guys. NOW, the business was the ashrams.
I had to sign it over to Al Sher and that was fine with me.

About a month later there was an ashram meeting in New Haven and Chris and I were not invited. Mark Alaimo made fun of our 'ashram' and I went silent.
After some time, Al Sher informed me that since I was not in the ashram, and the business was an ashram business, I could not work in it, only ashram brothers could work in it. I had to get some other job and walk away from it without looking back.

I got a call from a guy in Miami whom I employed in 1974.
He was a premie that moved up during the guru puja amherst74
time period and stayed with me with his friend and 2 premie sisters. I employed all 4 of them for the summer of 74.
Anyway, this guy now had a painting business in Miami and was about to paint the residence and deca. He called me to come down. I did.

That would start a whole new series of stories and today is not the day.

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Date: Mon, Oct 30, 2000 at 01:08:45 (GMT)
From: wThomas
Email: None
To: bill
Subject: bill burke stories
Message:
That was Mike, forgot his last name, worked for him at the end of his deca days. A few years ago I was at a program and some brother sitting behind me was shushing me, I turned around to give this son-of-a-bitch a piece of my mind, and there was Mike grinning at me.
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Date: Sun, Oct 29, 2000 at 22:58:48 (GMT)
From: a0aji
Email: None
To: bill
Subject: washed and dried and put thru the wringer
Message:
I don't remember anything about the painting business getting ripped off. That's terrible, but it fit the basic pattern. I think most of those people lost no sleep and did not worry while awake about the things they did 'to' others. Nope. Free conscience.

There was this almost perverse bohemian ethic to everything; it wouldn't surprise me to see a cult (not ours) dramatization about how some of the members worry terribly about their own actions and what they'd done wrong to others. I don't ever remember hearing anyone ever express regrets about behavior towards others. I'm not saying it didn't happen: I'm saying I must not have found it very memorable or moving.

I never recovered from those experiences, not really. I haven't worked in ten years; I couldn't function socially at any job long enough to get a foothold.

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Date: Mon, Oct 30, 2000 at 03:06:42 (GMT)
From: bill
Email: None
To: a0aji
Subject: washed and dried and put thru the wringer
Message:
I also dont recall a time ever where someone tried to atone for thier sins of whatever sort.

But we were totally under the domination of the 'dont think'
lord almighty, so of course we all were nuts.

ToM Kelley has kept his angry edge even after spending the late 80's and most of the 90's working on the house in malibu fixing it up for no one special.

Used up and no longer needed, he was dropped off back to his moms after 27 years or so.
Glenn Moulton also got booted at the same time the house and studio were finally done. He limped off to New Orleans.

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Date: Mon, Oct 30, 2000 at 05:18:18 (GMT)
From: a0aji
Email: None
To: bill
Subject: washed and dried and put thru the wringer
Message:
Wow.

It would have been a lot easier on all of us if most of what Rawat was telling us was true, eh? :)

It's kind of sad when you think about all the people we knew who more or less continually, from then to now and beyond, pissed their lives away chasing after this. I'll be frank with you -- it is unbelievable. So I'm not sad yet, because I just can't imagine having not figured it out, one way or another -- or just give up trying to jump through endless hoops at the divine dog show.

It is also unbelievable that the laws are so structured that it is so near impossible to get this Rawat into a court-room, to face charges. Just to get him to stop, never mind pay restitution.

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Date: Mon, Oct 30, 2000 at 13:42:32 (GMT)
From: bill
Email: None
To: a0aji
Subject: washed and dried and put thru the wringer
Message:
I guess it is up to us to find the ways to affect the outcome.
HE isnt stopping.

Dettmers coming out of the cold will potentially do something.

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Date: Mon, Oct 30, 2000 at 16:35:08 (GMT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: bill
Subject: I never knew they ripped off your business!!!
Message:
bill,

Christ on a Christmas cookie, how dare they!!! I know Mark and Tom were such heavies I always kept my distance. It's so sexist that the 'bothers' used that excuse (to protect the sisters) to not have you move in--then steal your business from you.

UNBELIEVABLE!!

I never heard much discussion about you going into the ashram, I always felt/thought it was inevitable. Wow, it sounds like the boys' ashram was quite a bit heavier than the girls', though we had our moments, too.

Mark was/is an Amtext guy in Atlanta. My sister saw Tom at a video event (when she was still going) right after he was tossed out of the 'residence.' I didn't know that Glenn was there too. Mark was a case of what I call testosterone poisoning--over aggressive. Back then when we were always hugging eachother, you know???...he'd grab the women so hard you'd feel like your ribs would crack.

Tom was a volitile person, always turning red and getting pissed off over something or another. Complaining all the time.

And A0aji, I've often wondered about SR in the ashram. He got special privileges, wasn't he finishing his education while in the ashram? Of course, it was funded by his parents, but after he gave that Audi to goomraji, they were royally pissed. Never bought him another car to my knowledge.

I have an interesting story about SR, but too personal for here. We met up a couple of years ago--he got in touch with me (my sister gave him my number). Strange visit, and a couple of months ago he again called me, but my husband answered the phone (I wasn't home) and SR hedged, and quickly gave my husband the EV phone number (the one with the taped message about events), and said he was just calling to tell me about a program in Boston. In 20 years he never called me about anything (except for our 'reunion visit' as he put it 2 years ago), especially programs! Weird. There's more to it than that. If you're interested, I have an email at sylviecyn@yahoo.com.

They stole your business...bastards.

Love,
Cynthia

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Date: Mon, Oct 30, 2000 at 17:22:10 (GMT)
From: a0aji
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: I never knew they ripped off your business!!!
Message:
As far as I'm concerned I got out sooner because of my dislike for so much of what people did to each other and to me. The wonder is, that I went back years later, to give it another try. I did that a few times.

I had a crush on a premie woman from Amhearst, the first time ('76 to '79) I was in the cult. I saw her again when I went to events, a few years back; and I had a chance to speak with her on a few occasions, even by telephone. Looking back on it, I can't imagine a modern relationship hamstrung with the additional burden of cult views imposed over the ordinary difficulties men and women have relating to each other.

I used to think having been in the cult, I'd need to find a woman who'd been in a cult (probably/preferably ours!) to be understood. It kind of didn't matter at all, when I finally got involved in a long-term relationship.

There was plenty of other things to be misunderstood about! :)

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Date: Sun, Oct 29, 2000 at 19:20:59 (GMT)
From: a0aji
Email: None
To: FA
Subject: FA - empty post vvvv
Message:
Empty post:

a0aji -:- shram short shrift -:- Sun, Oct 29, 2000 at 14:16:26

please do what you do so well! :) tnx

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Date: Sun, Oct 29, 2000 at 18:44:15 (GMT)
From: Disculta
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: The Broadripple gal was Jill Katz nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Mon, Oct 30, 2000 at 16:08:12 (GMT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Disculta
Subject: Thanks, I've been trying to think of her name (nt)
Message:
dd
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Date: Fri, Oct 27, 2000 at 22:53:33 (GMT)
From: The Dolphin
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: The family of M.
Message:
The song called arti (wich one is sing in the moment in India
where personal adoration is allowed by the culture) has said :
You are my mother , you are my father ,you are my brother ,etc
and then I listen that M does not acept invitations for december because HE want to stay with 'HIS FAMILY',there is something I'm missing please somebody can help me to understand.
Thanks.
Human.
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Date: Sun, Oct 29, 2000 at 23:00:24 (GMT)
From: Djuro
Email: None
To: The Dolphin
Subject: The family of M.
Message:
Why you wont M stay away from family?
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Date: Tues, Oct 31, 2000 at 16:51:38 (GMT)
From: The Dolphin
Email: None
To: Djuro
Subject: The family of M.
Message:
I mean that M's family is the people with knowledge.
The song arti has ended ,somethig like this:
Everybody fall down at your feet.
I decline to the superior power in PERSON.
It means workship to the personality of M. , it is actually allowed in INDIA by the culture.
I don't agree with this culture because Knowledge is beyond it , and M. try to conciliate two worlds (the inside - the outside) REPRESENTING the inside in this world (because he speaks in NAME of the HEART).
Thanks for your time.
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Date: Mon, Oct 30, 2000 at 04:51:54 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: Djuro
Subject: The family of M.
Message:
Djuro,

The Dolphin didn't express any desire that M stay away from his family. That was not the point. The point is his hypocrisy.

He has belittled premies' family relations, but not his own family relations. When the ashrams were still around in America, the ashram premies were severely distanced from their families. Some were told they couldn't go visit their family during the holidays. They couldn't buy their family members gifts. Some didn't go to funerals, some didn't see a family member before they died, some didn't go to weddings, etc. It also created a great emotional distance. And it wasn't just the ashram premies that were affected. Also, the effect of this lasted for a long time, even to this day, after the ashrams ended. Many premies didn't get married and/or have kids because of M. Many are still emotionally repressed.

Oh, but when it comes to his family, he makes it out to be so important, not just to himself, but that premies should view his family as important and get a weird vicarious enjoyment. His shows a tremendous amount of hypocrisy.

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Date: Mon, Oct 30, 2000 at 16:26:16 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: G
Subject: G must have been pretty fucking lonely last night
Message:
G,

Talking with Djuro is only a few steps up from mixing a martini for a blow-up doll.

I know, I know, I did it myself yesterday. But what can I tell you? I was kind of messed up from a few Hallowe'en parties (after the wedding). I wasn't thinking straight. Yeah, I talked with him, but I wasn't thinking stragiht.

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Date: Mon, Oct 30, 2000 at 18:35:05 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: it did seem kind of weird
Message:
I wonder if writing more than one sentence is something Djuro is capable of doing. Djuro, would you care to express an entire paragraph? I won't ask for more, just a few sentences.
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Date: Mon, Oct 30, 2000 at 23:20:12 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: G
Subject: That's abusive, G
Message:
G,

Asking that of Djuro is just downright mean. If you want a paragraph so much why don't you just take a number of Djuro's many posts and string them together? There's not much risk of the meaning being compromised. There isn't any.

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Date: Mon, Oct 30, 2000 at 14:32:04 (GMT)
From: The Dolphin
Email: None
To: G
Subject: I Thanks you for your point of view. nt
Message:
I Thanks you for your point of view.nt
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Date: Sun, Oct 29, 2000 at 00:20:05 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: The Dolphin
Subject: Maybe
Message:
if you go yacht watchining in December you'll spot him.

Hey, do not you go jumping in the water after him for darshan.

Not a Dolphin

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Date: Mon, Oct 30, 2000 at 14:54:05 (GMT)
From: The Dolphin
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: I don' t like cold water , I prefer it warm
Message:
You must know that in LA is winter in December.
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Date: Sat, Oct 28, 2000 at 07:12:58 (GMT)
From: Hal
Email: None
To: The Dolphin
Subject: The family of M.
Message:
Hi Dolphin,

It was a shattering realisation for me when the penny dropped. I saw clearly that he didn't know me , didn't care about me.

Premies are Maharaji's business base, that's all. There is a type of love that a businessman has for his clients, especially the big money acounts. No doubt a few of the very large donators to his divine enterprise may get invited up to the palace for a drink and a Bob Marley cigarette this December.

I think it is very painful when a devotee realises they are loving Dad but Dad just wants to use and abuse them.

Best wishes
Hal

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Date: Tues, Oct 31, 2000 at 17:00:13 (GMT)
From: The Dolphin
Email: None
To: Hal
Subject: The family of M.
Message:
I am not shure about if they smoke a Bob Marley cigarette , but M. likes Malboro and good cognac , selected elite'll invit to his greatest mansion.
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Date: Mon, Oct 30, 2000 at 00:48:48 (GMT)
From: Djuro
Email: None
To: Hal
Subject: The family of M.
Message:
Are you sure?
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Date: Mon, Oct 30, 2000 at 07:59:01 (GMT)
From: Hal
Email: None
To: Djuro
Subject: Sure I'm sure Djuro- you still sure? nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Sat, Oct 28, 2000 at 01:03:31 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: The Dolphin
Subject: sounds like you do understand
Message:
Mixed messages and double standard. In other words, M is saying (oh am I supposed to say WAS saying?) it's ok for me to do it, I'm the leader and more than human and therefore above human faults but you can't.

Did you happen to go to the later 90's events where the audience quiety started to whisper the words to arti whilst the band played the instumental? Truly creepy!!!!
I mean sing it or don't. What is this? But no one questioned. Just zoned and 'blissed out'.

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Date: Mon, Oct 30, 2000 at 15:04:24 (GMT)
From: The Dolphin
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: I like MAKE understand.
Message:
I like MAKE understand.
I will write later.
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Date: Fri, Oct 27, 2000 at 20:49:44 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Jagdeo's (and EV's) Fate? I hope so...
Message:
Jury Awards Punitive Damages of $90 Million in Porter-Gaud Case
The Associated Press


CHARLESTON, S.C. (AP) - Two former school administrators bear responsibility for a teacher's sex abuse of boys, a jury said, ordering $90 million in damages drawn from the administrator's estates.

Jurors on Thursday held former principals James Bishop Alexander and Berkeley Grimball liable for not stopping teacher Eddie Fischer's molestation of students at Porter-Guad School.

On Wednesday, the jury had ordered the late principals' estates pay Harold Glover, a victim's father, a separate $15 million in actual damages.

'Kids need to be protected, and things like this shouldn't be swept under the carpet,' juror Mary Cobb said after the verdict.

Fischer, 72, is serving 20 years in prison after admitting he molested more than 40 boys during his 40-year teaching career. Several of the boys attended Porter-Gaud.

Alexander had helped Fischer get another school job in 1982 after a sex complaint got Fischer fired from Porter-Gaud, witnesses testified. Witnesses also said Grimball had written Fischer a letter in appreciation of his work at Porter-Gaud and offered to help him in the future.

Grimball was not impelled to call police about the abuse complaint, he said in a sworn statement last year prior to his death. Alexander killed himself in 1998, days before he was to submit a sworn statement.

Porter-Gaud's liability is limited to $250,000 of the $105 million verdict because of a state exemption law. School insurance on the estates of Grimball and Alexander have a reported cap of $2 million.

The school issued a statement Wednesday saying 'everyone is a victim here' and that the school had taken steps to prevent future abuse.

The school has settled four other lawsuits and others are pending.

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Date: Sat, Oct 28, 2000 at 15:29:34 (GMT)
From: Steven Quint
Email: sequint@home.com
To: gerry and all
Subject: Jagdeo's (and EV's) Fate? I hope so...
Message:
I have been a Chartered Accountant, the Canadian equivalent of the U.S. Certified Pulic Accountant.

I have thought about the dollar value of the damage done by the Maharatweed. My rough estimate as far as the true dollar value is a one followed by a lot of zeros. How many zeros? Forget it, you probably are better off not knowing. Besides, I'm talking about true value, not necessarily provable in an American court of law.

Steve

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Date: Sat, Oct 28, 2000 at 00:57:43 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: gerry any info
Message:
On the dates of the abuse or statute of limitations? This is interesting.
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Date: Sat, Oct 28, 2000 at 13:15:11 (GMT)
From: There is no statute of
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: limitations in Florida for abuse by 'Church' elder
Message:
or in this case mahatma... initiatior.
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Date: Sat, Oct 28, 2000 at 05:58:24 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: From 40 to 72 is 32years...nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Sat, Oct 28, 2000 at 22:37:01 (GMT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: Statutes of Limitation Vary from state to state
Message:
It's real problem for adults whose repressed memories come out about childhood sexual abuse later in life.

Some states accommodate this by allowing for the the statute of limitations to run from the date of 'discovery,' or when they remember the abuse.

This is something that concerns me about Jagdeo. I don't believe he would or could be prosecuted, especially since he's out of the country, however, I believe as a moral issue goomragi is responsible because Jagdeo was under his control (well, sort of) and he (goomraji) does owe the victims of Jagdeo's crimes compensation.

In a recent post someone mentioned $100,000. When I read that, I thought, that's way, way too low. It's peanuts, considering the pain and suffering (both at the time of abuse, and throughout the life of the victim/survivor), the cost of therapy, the soul murdering experience of child sexual abuse, and it's manifestations i.e., PTSD, panic attacks, anxiety and social disorders, to name a few, compensation should be AT LEAST $1 million. How does one put a dollar figure on hurting a child that way? I certainly don't know. But m certainly does have a distinct responsiblity here IMHO.

Best,
Cynthia

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Date: Fri, Oct 27, 2000 at 18:44:39 (GMT)
From: Mickey the Pharisee
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Republicans support Nader! OT
Message:
GOP Group To Air Pro-Nader TV Ads

Updated 11:59 AM ET October 27, 2000

By LAURA MECKLER, Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON (AP) - Hoping to boost Ralph Nader in states where he is threatening to hurt Al Gore, a Republican group is launching TV ads featuring Nader attacking the vice president.

The ads by the Republican Leadership Council will begin airing Monday in Wisconsin, Oregon and Washington, all states that are part of Gore's base and where Nader is polling well. The group
plans to spend more than $100,000 at first and hopes to raise more over the weekend.

While the ads boost Nader, they are a clear attempt to help Bush.

Gore's supporters fear that Nader, who is more liberal than either Bush or Gore, will throw the election to the Texas governor if voters who might otherwise vote for Gore vote for Nader instead. In a tight national race, one or two states could make the difference in who is elected president.

The ads feature clips of Nader from a National Press Club speech on Tuesday, where he laid into both Bush and Gore, though the ad only includes his criticism of Gore.

'Al Gore is suffering from election year delusion if he thinks his record on the environment is anything to be proud of,' Nader says. An announcer interjects: 'What's Al Gore's real record?'
Nader says: 'Eight years of principles betrayed and promises broken.'

Nader has been equally critical, if not more so, of Bush, calling him 'a big corporation running for president disguised as a person.' But the RLC ads are a clear attempt to help Bush, not Nader.

A Gore spokesman suggested that the ads may backfire. 'Voters are going to ask why these shadowy groups are running attack ads on behalf of George Bush,' said Doug Hattaway.

He added that there are stark differences between Bush and Gore on abortion and the environment, and 'people who are thinking about voting for Nader care deeply about those issues and would not want to see them put at risk by George Bush.'

Nader, running a low-budget campaign, is not airing any television commercials of his own and it's possible that the RLC will end up spending more on pro-Nader media that Nader himself.

A spokeswoman for the Green Party nominee said that his campaign had no control over what other organizations do with Nader's speeches.

'The tactics of the other two parties are not our concern,' said spokeswoman Laura Jones.

Asked if the campaign welcomed the outside help, she added: 'Not really because they (the ads) are misleading in that they don't indicate that we are campaigning against Al Gore and George W. Bush.'

Nader has had to repeatedly defend himself against people arguing that his candidacy will help
Bush. He has responded that it makes little difference whether Bush or Gore is elected and has
said he is running to give voters an alternative.

'We're building a progressive political movement. That's the most important thing,' Nader said Friday on ABC's 'Good Morning America.' 'Whether Gore or Bush gets into the White House doesn't mean that much, because the permanent corporate government in Washington is really determining policy.'

The Republican Leadership Council, a centrist GOP group, has been helpful to Bush before, airing ads during the Republican primaries critical of challenger Steve Forbes. Several members
of the RLC board were early Bush supporters.

The RLC ads will run initially in four markets: Eugene and Portland, Ore.; Madison, Wis., and Seattle.

Mark Miller, the group's executive director, said the ads are partly a response to commercials being run by the National Abortion and Reproductive Rights Action League, which argue that a
vote for Nader is a vote for Bush.

'Ralph Nader doesn't believe that,' Miller said. 'Ralph Nader and his supporters are not backing down because they believe Al Gore has had numerous broken promises.'

Miller added that some of Nader's supporters have bragged that Nader has never had help from 'soft money,' the unrestricted donations used by parties and interest groups.

'We'll put an end to that,' Miller said.

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Date: Sun, Oct 29, 2000 at 16:23:54 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: Mickey the Pharisee
Subject: Nader is hurting his causes (OT)
Message:
A Newsweek editorial:

Where Ralph Went Wrong Nader is hurting not just Al Gore, but all the causes he has championed over the years.

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Date: Sun, Oct 29, 2000 at 21:41:06 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: all
Subject: Sierra Club responds to Nader (OT)
Message:
See Sierra Club's press statement and Carl Pope's response to Nader

In the response, Pope points out that Nader has broken his pledge to not campaign as a spoiler and avoid the swing states, also that Nader's letter to environmental groups contains inaccurate and unfair attacks on Gore's record.

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Date: Sun, Oct 29, 2000 at 16:40:16 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: all
Subject: Where the candidates stand (OT)
Message:
Here's a good article that shows that Gore and Bush are very different: Where The Presidential Candidates Stand

In fact, the Republicans, if it were in their favor, would say that there is very little difference between Nader and Gore.

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Date: Fri, Oct 27, 2000 at 20:38:02 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: Mickey the Pharisee
Subject: Daisy ad (OT)
Message:
A Republican group is airing a plagiarised remake of the infamous Daisy ad. The original ad attacked Barry Goldwater (a republican). The ad shows a little girl plucking a daisy. It claims the Clinton/Gore sold nuclear secrets to Communust Red China for campaign money and because of that, they can now blow us up. At the end of the ad, the girl's counting is replaced by a missile countdown, then she is blown up in a nuclear explosion.

See PoliticalPoints

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Date: Fri, Oct 27, 2000 at 21:40:03 (GMT)
From: Mickey the Pharisee
Email: None
To: G
Subject: Daisy ad (OT)
Message:
Sheesh! I'm happy that I don't see television in the United States anymore! I'm an old guy; I remember the Daisy ad. Hey, didn't the Republicans claim that the Chinese were taking over the Panama Canal? I live right next to the Canal and have yet to see any evidence of their take-over, but they could be moving the missles in on those Cruise Liners.
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Date: Sat, Oct 28, 2000 at 08:06:42 (GMT)
From: ExTex
Email: None
To: Mickey the Pharisee
Subject: Daisy ad (OT)
Message:
Those bastards will say anything, and have. They will lie and do anything to further their selfish cause. They will steal, humiliate, ruin, destroy and kill to achieve their personal agenda. Their despicable actions know no decent limits. Look at history.

Nothing shocks me about those elitist bastards except the unending stupidity of their devotees and pawns!

It's wake-up time! The dream is over.

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Date: Fri, Oct 27, 2000 at 14:11:27 (GMT)
From: Yves
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: What is the value of 'KNOWLEDGE'
Message:
Some discussion I had French Forum had me question this. Is there some value to these 4 'meditation' techniques. I argue there is none. Others arguer there is and go as far as to say it is somewhat 'spiritual'. I'd like to get reaction on these questions:

a) what is the value of the 'meditation' techniques?

and

b) does its value, if any, justify the 'knowledge' package (which includes devotion, service, satsang, monastic lifestyle, darshan, etc.)?

and

c) what is spirituality?

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Date: Mon, Oct 30, 2000 at 00:18:24 (GMT)
From: Djuro
Email: None
To: Yves
Subject: What is the value of 'KNOWLEDGE'
Message:
A 1000000000$ has a different valu for you and for a gorila
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Date: Sun, Oct 29, 2000 at 00:59:41 (GMT)
From: Steven Quint
Email: sequint@home.com
To: Yves and Everyone
Subject: What is the value of 'KNOWLEDGE'
Message:
There's a little story I made up and have bounced off a number of people.

Mrs. A is drowning near a semi-deserted beach. Mr. B rescues her but proceeds to torture her.

Mr. B. is caught by the authorities and charged with a crime. Should his saving of Mrs. A's life play a part in judging and sentencing Mr. B?

The way I have come to see it, if I were the judge, I'd see that Mr. B got a medal for rescuing Mrs. A and then I'd throw the harshest penalty available under the law at Mr. B.

I think that in life, being a good person is a benchmark, a minimum standard for judging people, and that a person's evil should be judged separately from their good deeds.

If I were judging Maharatweed in the real world, I would give him a medal for 'rescuing people from the drug culture'. Then I would 'throw the book' at him. It would be a very long trial, let's put it that way.

Steve

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Date: Sat, Oct 28, 2000 at 02:46:37 (GMT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: Yves
Subject: What is the value of 'KNOWLEDGE'
Message:
It's just $15 on my new Techno Knowledge CD. Now I've got a CD writer all I need is an online shoppng cart thingy and I'll be away.

Maybe I'll have a knowledge download facility for those who are desperate and can't wait for the CD.

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Date: Fri, Oct 27, 2000 at 23:03:21 (GMT)
From: hamzen
Email: None
To: Yves
Subject: What is the value of 'KNOWLEDGE'
Message:
Some discussion I had French Forum had me question this. Is there some value to these 4 'meditation' techniques. I argue there is none. Others arguer there is and go as far as to say it is somewhat 'spiritual'. I'd like to get reaction on these questions:
a) what is the value of the 'meditation' techniques?
and
b) does its value, if any, justify the 'knowledge' package (which includes devotion, service, satsang, monastic lifestyle, darshan, etc.)?
and
c) what is spirituality?

(a) The value of, when there is value, is not independent of set or setting, and is also meaningless without an understranding of the bio-feedback qualities that can happen by acts of concentration with a 'good' attitude, irrespective of the techniques.

(b) Only of value as a whole for someone who was on, and understood, the contradictions of the bhakti yoga route.
Personally I found using satsang, service, and meditation in a zenist/taoist way, very useful, could have been more useful without big-boys additional conceptual baggage, the very thing he took the piss out of in other spiritual leaders!

(c) A state of sensitivity that gets lost in the day to day hurly-burly, that gets imbued with spiritual and religious baggage - (to keep up hope, even if it's an illusion), instead of being seen as a natural part of our emotional range.

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Date: Fri, Oct 27, 2000 at 17:31:02 (GMT)
From: Scott T.
Email: None
To: Yves
Subject: What is the value of 'KNOWLEDGE'
Message:
a) I dunno.
b) I dunno.
c) I dunno.

--Scott 'I dunno' T.

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Date: Fri, Oct 27, 2000 at 14:50:54 (GMT)
From: Steven Quint
Email: sequint@home.com
To: Yves and Everyone
Subject: What is the value of 'KNOWLEDGE'
Message:
Thanks for bringing this up.

I brought this up a few weeks ago and the overwhelming response seemed to be that there was no value whatsoever in having received the four techniques of knowledge.

In my case I feel and remember that something very significant did change when I received the first technique.

My sister who received knowledge in the seventies and was involved for about four years before she retreated from the scene said that knowledge brought her 'closer to God'.

One thing that keeps crossing my mind is that I was shown the techniques by an 'instructor' named Nadine Lebas, not by the Mahahaha. She handed me an envelope afterwords including a cheesy picture of the 'beautiful one' worth about two cents, the 'five commandments', and other wonderful things. Do you think that she really knew where the 'knowledge' that she 'revealed' actually came from?

I quote from the MS Encarta dictionary definition of 'grotesque' linked below under 'Waking Up To The Bizarre', October 25:

1. distorted: misshapen, especially in a strange or disturbing way The flames cast grotesque shadows on the wall.

2. incongruous: seeming strange or ludicrous through being out of place or unexpected

3. ARTS blending realistic and fantastic: relating to or typical of a style of art that mixes the realistic and the fantastic

I really do believe that what I have experienced over the last 23 years since I was shown the 'techniques of knowledge' is very well described by this word 'grotesque'. I like the third definition regarding blending the realistic and the fantastic. For me, this is a major source of the confusion that I experienced and that contributed to four major psychotic breakdowns. I was not a 'normal' person before I got involved with this trip but I certainly was not psychotic nor was I headed in a psychotic direction. Guru Maharatweed has very frequently dissed confusion and confused people but, in my opinion and from my knowledge of history, he is the most confusing person who ever lived on this planet.

I think there is a lot of cleanup to be done of the damage caused by this fuckhead (not in my dictionaries). Certainly, this website and forum are my current number one sources for doing this. I've stated that as of five days ago I will never go back to the weed-watching events, even to say hello to friends. So this place is my main source of truth about the issues of inner growth and experience.

I believe that we all teach each other. Even if the concept of 'master' proves to be valid, if a master cannot learn from others, something is very strange and out of tune with everything else going on around. And the fuckhead seems to have created the personal reality that only he could teach properly and really didn't have much to learn from anybody else.

After seeing ten minutes of his recent talk in Tokyo and reading Jim's commentary under 'Maharaji's toy philosophy - Tokyo' October 24, it is super-clear to me now that this guy would confuse a dandelion if it had the misfortune to be able to hear the guy speak.

Steve

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Date: Fri, Oct 27, 2000 at 18:52:38 (GMT)
From: Yves
Email: None
To: Steven Quint
Subject: What is the value of 'KNOWLEDGE'
Message:
Actually, we shouldn't be concerned with the costs incured for each individual since they advertize it for free. I guess they count on a wider premieship as a client base for side-products like tee-shirts, publications, donations, ticket sale, Rawat action figures, toy airplane, toy airplane, divine-light-lampshades, record of celestial music, poems by the master and baragans to brag-about

I am rather concerned by its value. Replacement products like Trancendental mantra or Landmark week-end are marketed at around 300$. In this case, since it is advertized for free, I'll assume it is. Its value has decreased since initiation is now available on the web for anyone who could find his way in a messy site. Just like bottled-water which is often just as good as tap-water, breathing in a spiritual manner is a status-symbol and conversation piece worthless when nobody pays attention.

In my case, Mahatma Fakiranand asked each aspirant for all his money. I had 1500$. It was 1972 and at a rate of 9%, I expect 16750.70$ to be refunded before the anniversary of the check on december 16. Since the currency was canadian dollars and it was worth a little more than the U$ then, I am willing to forget about the exchange rate and accept this sum in U$ currency. Fair, isn't it?

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Date: Fri, Oct 27, 2000 at 21:46:04 (GMT)
From: janet of venice
Email: None
To: Yves
Subject: What is the value of 'KNOWLEDGE'
Message:
the costs are devastating. i can count among mine:the cost of watching my mother die in bitterness and anger, partly because i spent her last 3 years on earth chasing this cult instead of spending quality time with her. this includes making her wait eight months while i hung out in denver between flights that she paid for so that she could see me. by the time i reached her bedside, she was in a coma from which she would never wake up. the chance was gone, permanently.it includes my only pregnancy that was spent being dragged around the country chasing maharaj ji when everything in me longed for a home where i could settle in with my changes and expect the baby.it includes the alienation of my family before, during and after the pregnancy, resulting in their tricking me into a mental hospital when i finally did go to see them, and taking legal custody away on the grounds that i was unfit. they kept him for 16 years and filled his head with lies about me. iknew that as long as i was a premie, my father would convince the court i remained unfit. so the irreplaceable years of being a mother, raising my son, were robbed from me. i had to trade my only child for this hell of being a premie. those years are forever gone.the inheritance of ten thousand dollars US, that my mother left me, got torn out of my hands and spent on psychiatric and legal costs, in efforts to cure me at a time when i didnt want to be 'cured'. my lifetime dream of owning land went into the pockets of doctors and lawyers who couldnt care less. that money is long gone, and my dreams with it.there are the social costs. having knowledge sets one apart. people know there is something different about you. it nets you strange attention.if you're a woman, men think they want to bed you. some people resent you with a vengeance. the neighbors think you're weird and they don't trust you. it isolates you. you don't feel like 'one of the guys', even in the midst of a party, a game, a family reunion, a school reunion, etc.nw--as to the value of knowledge?:it did these things for me:it gave me healing abilities. i could see people's pain and rech out and make it better.it gave me compassion for all life. I stopped mindlessly breaking branches off of trees,squashing bugs for the hell of it, antagonizing pets till they bit me, bitching and arguing and being habitually sarcastic. I could win the trust of any animal and was unafraid. it greatly improved my musical sensitivity. my singing reached amazing purity.it gave me courage in the middle of New York City with some of the most rejecting, rude, angry peope on earth. I could walk through a subway, singing, and watch the newspapers and averted eyes slowly relax and open, and real human beings emerge from behind the defenses. I could stand on a busy manhattan streetcorner and hand out leaflets for a program and maintain a stable, serene frame of mind, able to take on the endless stream of hate, and soften it, humanize it, see through the act to the person underneath.until i was locked in the hospital with the court hanging over my head, i had complete comfort with spontaneity. the ingrained social fears i had been burdened with, in my socialization, evaporated completely in premie kindness and gentleness. i came to know that i could ask the creation for anything and the exceptional became my normal working mode. no harm came of it.as a result of the premie diet, i enjoyed better health, endurance, clarity and mood than i had ever known. I could walk miles and not feel tired. i could work for hours with no fatigue. my reflexes became instantaneous without thought. i could snatch a falling waterglass out of midair. i could block a blow without looking. my aim became dead-on without trying.in time i became aware that i could reach someone with thought only, at any distance. i could watch a parent about to swat their kid, across the street, and silently command them 'NO! Comfort them instead!' and the parent would halt, have a change of heart, and soothe the child. I could reach animals the same way, mentally suggesting they alter their course or desist from some action, and they would. I could stand in a window and call someone silently and they would turn around and look straight at me. I did this with performers onstage, and out of an arena of thousands, they would lock onto me. If they were singing the melody and i suddenly felt like singing with them, to my astonishment, they would break off into the harmony--but only when i took up melody, and vice versa. I played with it, thinking it was coincidence, but it never varied. I could only conclude there was a connection and the only place i'd ever seen it was Knowledge. I had to be careful with it. I would throw energy I shouldn't have, sometimes throwing old ladies out of my way with intent shouldn't have let fly, trying to cut my way down a busy New York sidewalk.all this new awareness, which worked so well while immersd in the premie world, caught up and hurt me when I was on my own for years.my compassion became a mantle of guilt. i couldnt say no. people took advantage of me. i became obsessive and couldnt let a thing rest. i had to help. all the nutcases and losers came to me. the telepathy or the 'heart telephone' became a joke and then an annoyance, as i collected a group of non premie friends who were equally telepathic, and the noise level of our thoughts became like multiple radios, on at the same time. i attracted people whose lives were constant drama. my pets bred out of control because i couldnt bear to let them go.one by one, i had to shut these abilities and sentiments down. I had to get hard, for my own preservation. i had become a chump, an easy mark, a sucker. I couldnt afford it anymore.
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Date: Sat, Oct 28, 2000 at 20:19:45 (GMT)
From: Rick
Email: None
To: janet of venice
Subject: What is the value of 'KNOWLEDGE'
Message:
May I point out that knowledge did not give you all these things but simply gave you these illusions. The cost of indulging these illusions was great, but in the end they were illusions.

Some of what you claim knowledge gave you, I believe came from you, not knowledge or maharaji. And some of the other things you claim knowledge gave you, I can't help but believe you totally imagined.

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Date: Sat, Oct 28, 2000 at 01:43:11 (GMT)
From: dv
Email: None
To: janet of venice
Subject: What is the value of 'KNOWLEDGE'
Message:
I can relate. The effect of a 'deep theta' like state ( I have NOTHING to do with scientology, who cares if they talk about the same state?)is, in my opinion and experience, extremely engaging. Mixing it with a cult religion, as so many people seem to do, has very volatile effects, as we all know. That precisely is what kept me around for so many years.
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Date: Fri, Oct 27, 2000 at 23:26:54 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: janet of venice
Subject: unnecessarily rude (nt)
Message:
hhhhhhhh
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Date: Fri, Oct 27, 2000 at 23:43:32 (GMT)
From: blood
Email: None
To: all
Subject: What is the value of K
Message:
One technique has been a valuable tool to me...but it's origin dates far back in history. m plagerized the techniques. Their value is in no way connected or related to him.

The whole experience of M and the flocks has shown me how incredibly foolish a human being can be, including myself.

I allowed it to derail me from my own adventure, my own mythic unfoldment, until I was able to understand the value of discernment. But that was very important and necessary for me to understand. One has to trip over ones own ignorance in order to become aware of it.

If there is a line of people following someone for the sake of increasing their perceptual faculties of awareness, it is best to run away fast.

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Date: Fri, Oct 27, 2000 at 23:51:33 (GMT)
From: and guts
Email: and_on_anand@yahoo.com
To: blood
Subject: conga line
Message:
We're surrounded by cults.

State-run school. Church. Television. Even our libraries, all represent selected readings from the larger body of literature available. I knew people who would not go to the public library because they knew the literature there favored the agenda of the conquering culture that instituted them.

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Date: Fri, Oct 27, 2000 at 23:54:42 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: and guts
Subject: Buy yourself a dictionary
Message:
You obviously don't know what the word 'cult' means.
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Date: Sat, Oct 28, 2000 at 00:00:44 (GMT)
From: and guts
Email: and_on_anand@yahoo.com
To: Jim
Subject: Buy yourself a dictionary :: blow me ;)
Message:
2 definitions found

From Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary (1913) [web1913]:

Cult \Cult\ (k?lt) n .[F. culte, L. cultus care, culture, fr. colere to cultivate. Cf. {Cultus}.]
1. Attentive care; homage; worship.

Every one is convinced of the reality of a better self, and of. thecult or homage which is due to it. --Shaftesbury.

2. A system of religious belief and worship.

That which was the religion of Moses is the ceremonial or cult of the religion of Christ. --Coleridge.

From WordNet (r) 1.6 [wn]:

cult
n 1: adherents of an exclusive system of religious beliefs and practices
2: an interest followed with exaggerated zeal: 'he always follows the latest fads'; 'it was all the rage that season' [syn: {fad}, {craze}, {furor}, {furore}, {rage}]
3: a system of religious beliefs and rituals [syn: {religious cult}]

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Date: Sat, Oct 28, 2000 at 00:08:49 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: and guts
Subject: Look up 'hyperbole' (nt)
Message:
ggggggg
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Date: Sat, Oct 28, 2000 at 05:57:52 (GMT)
From: a0aji
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Look up 'hyperbole' (yt)
Message:
What about Bhole Ji? Everyone else has a kind of interesting thing happening, however repugnant. Raja Ji got Sant Ji's right-hand-man spot. Bal Bhagwan Ji got his own satguru franchise. Sant Ji got the DLM inheritance.

What did Bhole Ji get, after Blue Aquarius?

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Date: Sat, Oct 28, 2000 at 19:22:53 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: a0aji
Subject: Cute ... Hyperbholeji got a limo service, I think
Message:
Mind you, he's back in India apparently. Check him out on Satpal's page. They had a big birthday party for him recently.
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Date: Fri, Oct 27, 2000 at 12:14:30 (GMT)
From: CHR
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: X-rated, and Joe's darshan comments etc.
Message:
I don't know how you all find the time to be on here so regularly.
Anyway, I have just managed to read all the recent posts, and was especially interested in Michael Dettmer's one on Xrated premies, and Joe's comments about Maharaji in the daeshan line.

I was X-rated before I did residence security- not quite to the extent that Michael spoke about, but I was told that Maharaji's privacy was to be respected at all costs and that nothing I saw or heard was to leave the residence grounds. Somebody commented ( I think it was Sir Dave) that if premies had known that M drank and smoked dope, they would have all left. I knew as early as 1975 that drinking was going on, after doing security outside a hotel suite M stayed in.

Its hard to explain, but it all depends on the paradigm you view things from. The faith and love and belief in M becomes so subliminal that it almost doesn't matter what he does. By the time you do something like residence security, you have been convinced that your understanding, your perception, is less real than M's. Therefore whatever he does, he has his reasons and they are always right.

As far as Joe's comments go about M being bored and possibly having darshan for monetry reasons, again it all depends on the paradigm you view it from. Within that paradigm of master and lowly devotee, I believe M genuinly believed he was giving of himself to the premies through darshan. I was in the darshan room many times. I often had service directly facing M. My job was usually 1. To protect M's person 2. To catch collapsing premies and 3. To check that nobody went through twice.
M always seemed focused and genuinly sincere about the premies who came through. One time a premie who I had placed backstage had missed darshan. Just as M was about to leave, I told Merino who conveyed this to M. I was asked to get the premie and bring him before Maharaji. Maharaji then gave him personal darshan. At the time I was very touched by M's ' compassion'. From outside that whole devotion/ master paradigm, however, the whole episode seems bizarre and pompous. The very thought, even, of one individual kissing another's feet in an act of complete servitude seems particularly unhealthy.
As I pulled away from M in the late 80s, I began to look back over what I had seen- the incredibly lavish lifestyle, the drinking, the attitudes and moods etc and I wondered why I had stayed. When you are entrenched in that belief system, in that paradigm that I spoke about, you do not see clearly. By the time I did residence security in 1979, I had 6 years behind me of a life totally focused on M and K, and being around M, even if most of the time it was at the end of his driveway or combing his outer perimeter fence, seemed the greatest gift there was.

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Date: Sat, Oct 28, 2000 at 12:07:45 (GMT)
From: Buddy can you spare a
Email: None
To: CHR
Subject: what's a paradigm? (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Sat, Oct 28, 2000 at 14:38:52 (GMT)
From: Steven Quint
Email: sequint@home.com
To: Buddy and All
Subject: what's a paradigm? (nt)
Message:
Bill Gates To The Rescue.

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Date: Sun, Oct 29, 2000 at 16:37:22 (GMT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Steven Quint
Subject: what's a paradigm?
Message:
Hi Steven,

Paradigm is a word I particularly dislike. When I hear it in conversation or read it, the word is like sqeaking chalk on a chalkboard. That's how it affects me.

Paradigm seems to pop up when folks like to sound intellectual or something. Whatever, each to his/her own!

Best, Cynthia

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Date: Mon, Oct 30, 2000 at 03:44:02 (GMT)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: yes, paradigm is very Dilbert
Message:
I agree, other words and phrases that get me of late:

on the same page

closure ( even though I used that in my letter I still hate the word)

affinity

thinking out of the box

I do think that buzzwords annoy me because the first place I encountered them was premiedom. The language was always changing and you had to be up on the latest evolutions of jargon to maintain your status in the pecking order. Premiedom was a pretty heirarchal place as well.

The first time I heard the word paradigm was when my husband, a physician, came home from a meeting with a management consultant his group had hired. This was years ago now, I am sure all the buzzwords have changed. Apparently, what was being sold to the doctors was the concept of quality is defined by customer satisfaction. Or, if the patient feels s/he recieved quality care, then s/he did. In healthcare this is a ludicrous and dangerous way of looking at quality. Also, when people who are trying to save money are the ones selling the concept it becomes especially scary. So basically, a succesful fraud or quack delivers 'quality' if the patient comes away happy? Really scary...

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Date: Sun, Oct 29, 2000 at 17:09:40 (GMT)
From: Steven Quint
Email: sequint@home.com
To: Cynthia
Subject: what's a paradigm?
Message:
'Model' would probably be a better choice of words.

Steve

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Date: Sun, Oct 29, 2000 at 17:49:47 (GMT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Steven Quint
Subject: Steven: I agree, much less pretentious:)) (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Mon, Oct 30, 2000 at 18:28:05 (GMT)
From: Buddy can u spare a pair
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: Is that what's called being paradigmatic?
Message:
for example

;)

Jejeunosity abounds

(and what about the splodgeness?)

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Date: Sat, Oct 28, 2000 at 14:35:15 (GMT)
From: ajw
Email: None
To: Buddy can you spare a
Subject: a parachutist with a spade (NT)
Message:
dig it
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Date: Sat, Oct 28, 2000 at 01:53:22 (GMT)
From: Dv
Email: None
To: CHR
Subject: X-rated, and Joe's darshan comments etc.
Message:
Did you stay in the Alton Road house? Kenny, Charlotte, Kelvin, George, Ken, John, hell, I can't remember em all. Lemon NEVER stayed with us peons :)
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Date: Fri, Oct 27, 2000 at 22:39:46 (GMT)
From: PHD
Email: None
To: CHR
Subject: X-rated, and Joe's darshan comments etc.
Message:
Excellent post CHR, it leads to the question “What makes one paradigm better than others and by which rules do you judge a paradigm?'
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Date: Fri, Oct 27, 2000 at 22:51:28 (GMT)
From: CHR
Email: None
To: PHD
Subject: X-rated, and Joe's darshan comments etc.
Message:
I suppose I would say, now, after what I went through as a premie, that it has something to do with being able to keep one's integrity as an individual. To a great degree we gave up ourselves for a premie self, and this was encouraged by Maharaji.

At the heart of a cult is the understanding that on all matters the master knows best. Within this paradigm only M and our experience of him, mattered. Our own needs, ambitions, feelings, families and even spiritual experiences were all secondary to this. There was no room for growth because we already had 'everything we needed'. We also bought and perpetuated the lie that what we were experiencing, or at least striving to experience, was our true self and identity.

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Date: Sat, Oct 28, 2000 at 03:03:16 (GMT)
From: bill
Email: None
To: CHR
Subject: X-rated, and Joe's darshan comments etc.
Message:
Hi CHR, they werent 'secondary', they were totally off the table.
You were to leave them like Eknath did. And the lord would accept nothing less than total devotion to the exclusion of all else. Or maybe that was the pot talking?
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Date: Fri, Oct 27, 2000 at 23:25:27 (GMT)
From: a0aji
Email: None
To: CHR
Subject: X-rated, and Joe's darshan comments etc.
Message:
Well, it wasn't exactly billed that way. There was no brochure. It would have to say, 'You know nothing. He knows everything. Come and hear him tell you what you don't know and only he knows -- and nobody knows better than he knows.'

Sneak attack! Bait and switch. Lot of smiling faces, music, attractive people being friendly and gentle with one another (mostly).

Sneak attack.

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Date: Sat, Oct 28, 2000 at 03:59:17 (GMT)
From: bill
Email: None
To: a0aji
Subject: ot
Message:
Another regular feature that fit the sneak attack mode,
in hartford, the behind the back criticism freaks.
The steve bottaro/louie colon clic couldnt supress thier desire to find fault with everyone.
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Date: Sat, Oct 28, 2000 at 20:45:57 (GMT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: bill
Subject: ot/Unless you were in the 'in' crowd, but even...
Message:
then, Bill, those two, especially Louie, were incredibly judgmental, then Louie would go to bars, pick up chixs and spread knowledge there...he actually brought quite a few 'hotties' to satsang, even though he was married.

Btw, Steve Coggshall and Steve Bottaro both live in CA now, the last time my sister spoke with Steve C. (they keep in touch about once a year) neither were practicing, but are both married and remain friends.

Best,
Cynthia

p.s. that judging thing was 'catching' at least at the time....

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Date: Sun, Oct 29, 2000 at 01:35:19 (GMT)
From: bill
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: ot/Unless you were in the 'in' crowd, but even...
Message:
Was it you? or your sister? or the girl who was a nurse who was sitting on the stairs of the Hamilton st house and overheard steve and someone ripping into everyone and was shocked.
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Date: Sun, Oct 29, 2000 at 16:18:38 (GMT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: bill
Subject: ot/Unless you were in the 'in' crowd, but even...
Message:
bill,

It wasn't me and probably wasn't my sister. Steve B. always acted so mild mannered in public...I may have blocked it out when he got mad at someone.

Hamilton St. house?? Was that the guy's ashram? The street name doesn't ring any bells.

Best, Cynthia

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Date: Sun, Oct 29, 2000 at 18:40:30 (GMT)
From: a0aji
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: ot/Unless you were in the 'in' crowd, but even...
Message:
Off of Hillside Ave. Cuts right up from New Park to Trinity College, beginning not far from the corner of New Park and Park Street. Ends on Zion St. It used to be, you could top Hamilton Street, hang a left onto Zion, and then do a reverse-angle turn (more than 90 degrees) to the right and zip up the hill to Trinity College; zip, zang, zoom! Steve and J lived there for a while. Then I think they moved up one floor, called it an ashram, and BB, DL and I lived on the lower floor (which wasn't the ground floor, though).

There was a nice premie house up on Hillside Ave around then, too.

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Date: Sun, Oct 29, 2000 at 21:10:07 (GMT)
From: bill
Email: None
To: a0aji
Subject: ot
Message:
Sanford was around then and named a chicken 'shri Hens'
I liked that.
Liked Sanford too.

I think the person that I was referring to was the girl who was a nurse.

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Date: Sun, Oct 29, 2000 at 22:26:09 (GMT)
From: a0aji
Email: None
To: bill
Subject: ot
Message:
Sanford was a trip. How could anyone not like him? He was just unable to read situations and then respond to them in such a way as to benefit from them. He used to beg for food (or I misremember it that way) at the back door of the ashram.

> girl who was a nurse

Bonnie?

Remember Frank? Then there was Louie Nhile (hehe) and that guy with the mirrored sunglasses who sat in the back and never spoke to anyone.

The thing about Frank was like -- we'd just dump him off on Sargeant St in the middle of the block. I got the feeling he didn't live there; that was just an arbitrary starting point for some sort of foot journey he was about to make.

Frank may've looked a little like Shri Hans but he didn't smell like any satguru I ever met :)

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Date: Mon, Oct 30, 2000 at 04:26:35 (GMT)
From: a0aji
Email: None
To: tutu
Subject: frank!
Message:
Frank was a white-haired drunk, probably around 50 or 60 years old. He had a big honking deep voice, was jovial and good-spirited, and had an open face. I think he was just a street alcoholic. He bore enough of a resemblance to Shri Hans that some premies would remark on it (not too much, though).

One time I saw Frank at the Friendly's outside Trinity College, on Broad Street. That was my first hang-out after I left the cult. I'd hang around for a few hours each night, drinking coffee and chatting it up with whoever was there. There were other regulars. The Farm Shop (Farmington Ave) also had a lot of regulars. I still see a couple of them every now and then -- well, one of them. The others, maybe eight years ago already.

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Date: Mon, Oct 30, 2000 at 13:44:26 (GMT)
From: bill
Email: None
To: a0aji
Subject: frank!
Message:
Hey, we were lucky to attract even him with our nutty scene.
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Date: Mon, Oct 30, 2000 at 15:53:03 (GMT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: bill
Subject: frank!
Message:
Hi!

Frankly, I don't remember frank! After I left for Miami?

Is Bonnie the woman who was in the ashram on Bond St.?

If so, I remember her well. Actually we shared an apartment (also on Bond St.) before moving into the ashram up the street with another blonde named Nancy. Steve B. would come over for Sunday brunch to give us 'preparation to enter the ashram' satsang--that was a planned thing. MW lived in the same house, an apartment upstairs with her daughter, and it was a blast living there. MW and I would sit at her kitchen table, or ours, and we'd drink coffee until the wee hours of the morning. We'd laugh and laugh--just had so much fun. She was one friend who offered her apartment to me when I left the ashram in Gainesville. She was visiting her brother for a month, so she wasn't going to be there. She's one unique person. Quite a few premies lived on or around Bond St. My sister and Steve Cogg. had an apartment on the west end of Bond.

In 1976 I lived in a premie house which was on the corner of the streets I believe you mentioned, bill. Debbie C., Steve F., Nancy, and I can see the faces of the others but can't pull their names up right now. That was a great place to live. It was from that house that I moved into SR's family home, where, of course, we had our own suite, the Audi, etc. Steve F. got into Amway at the time and was constantly using us as guinea pigs for his demonstrations. Geeze!!

And whenever we had our supper, Steve F. would gross us out by chewing his food about 100 times, swallow, then swish herbal tea in his mouth about 5 times--LOLOLOL!!! We finally asked him to knock it off or eat in another room. He would always complain when one of us would open a peanut butter jar and take a spoonful out and eat it without bread...he thought we were being wasteful. All in all, it was a good house of solid working people, so we got along together pretty well. Plus, we all had our own rooms, if you can imagine that!

God, there are so many people I have forgotten, yet when I'm reminded of them, it all comes back. The Farm Shop on Farmington Ave. was an after satsang hang out for a long time--before I got k. It was close to the Oxford St. premie house and we, my sister, Debbie C., Steve C., and a bunch of other premies would load up on ice cream and coffee. Btw, what ever happened to Sue K.?

Best,
Cynthia

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Date: Mon, Oct 30, 2000 at 17:39:56 (GMT)
From: a0aji
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: frank!
Message:
Sue was working with Kenny Beach last time I spoke with her (6 years back, maybe?) I love Sue, but don't get me started on Kenny Beach!

[growl]

I think there was a woman named Nancy who fits one of your descriptions; she was definitely an aspirant after I was, not before. She was pretty darn cute, too :) I didn't click on who some of those people were you mentioned by initials!

So the system works. :) Ix-nay on the emie-pray. Good.

Nobody remembers Frank. How odd.

One time I came home from the Air Force, on leave, and I met up with Death Goldstein (Seth G) on Farmington Ave. He took me to the ashram in East Hartford. We went in. Nobody was there that I knew! It was weird. Was probably 1981 or 1982.

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Date: Mon, Oct 30, 2000 at 20:58:07 (GMT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: a0aji
Subject: nancy!
Message:
Hi,

There were two Nancys. One was a blonde who later moved to LA, and the other had long dark hair with big doe eyes. The dark haired Nancy live with us in the premie house, and we both later moved into the Bond St ashram. The blonde lived with Bonnie and me on Bond St. prior to ashram....

Gotta go,
Cynthia

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Date: Tues, Oct 31, 2000 at 02:46:28 (GMT)
From: a0aji
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: nancy!
Message:
I was in the Bond St ashram with Nancy. Debbie and Jackie were also there.
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Date: Mon, Oct 30, 2000 at 03:12:02 (GMT)
From: bill
Email: None
To: a0aji
Subject: ot
Message:
Louie N was ahoot wasnt he.
All he had to do to get knowledge from mike donner, who gave up expecting premie style sense out of him, was show up the next day. But, he was adift on the currents and didnt make it back for days. Mike was gone. I should have just told the guy.

Your reccolections are funny. I love reading them.
Im trying to remember frank.

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Date: Sat, Oct 28, 2000 at 05:36:29 (GMT)
From: a0aji
Email: None
To: bill
Subject: service opp. and the hogs who stole it
Message:
The thing I always remember -- what really hurt -- was when my creative ideas were stolen by others; it was like my self-expression was going to be hindered in Maharaji's world, too. The only talent I thought I had was in electrical engineering, so I put my efforts into that: satsang alarm clock, phone feed engineering; sound reinforcement -- anything electrical or audio related (I also knew radio and general telecommunications; I hoped to do things in that area 'for' Maharaji).

I wanted to feel useful, not just decorative, or some slave mopping up the shit-house floor after the revelers vomit up their prasad.

It was pretty clear there was interesting work to be done. I wasn't given any. So I knew (from this and many other cues, cross-referenced) that premie culture sucked. For a sixteen year old, that should have been more than enough to Beevis out the door, shouting This Sucks! in a most dismissive tone.

I saw Louie, a year or two ago. He seemed in good health and spirits. I might have even mentioned this place.

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Date: Fri, Oct 27, 2000 at 17:16:56 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: CHR
Subject: X-rated, and Joe's darshan comments etc.
Message:
Chr,

Intresting comments, and I think they point to a significant issue. And that is, if you really believe that you HAVE to believe something, if it is so important to not only your self-identity, but also the supposed purpose of your life to do so, and if you have already devoted so much of your life to it that doubting it would be very painful, you can usually see, and even experience, what you think you are supposed to see and experience. To me, this is the essence of being a premie, and it is why people say they have profound experiences in darshan, around Maharaji, doing 'service', and why they attribute any nice experiences in meditation to 'knowledge' and Maharaji. And it is why doubting it is so painful, and why premies will say the most ridiculous things to avoid doubting Maharaji. Of course, once you are out of that 'paradigm' none of that makes any sense whatsoever, and you wonder how you could have ever been so deluded.

But, occasionally in my experience as a premie, something breaks through that doesn't match up and you have to deal with it. And the way I, and most of the premies I knew dealth with it, automatically, was to blame yourself for even having such thoughts, and to simply discount them as 'mind.' But it wasn't easy, and I think this is why premies, especially ashram premies, were so miserable so much of the time. It's a difficult struggle and makes you feel even more desperate for Maharaji to save you.

Like, for example, in the darshan line, many times that I went through, Maharaji really did look, obviously, bored and sick of it. Probably for good reason. I don't know what his motivations were/are, probably mixed motivations. But given his uncarring and dismissive attitude about things as significant as the ashrams and the welfare of his devotees, I personally doubt that his motivations in giving darshan were entirely selfless. There definitely was a large, personal, financial gain everytime he did it, and I know he discussed that, as I have mentioned elsewhere. There was also a pump to his ego and to his image of himself everytime he did it. There just had to be. Maybe he also considered it part of his job. I just think it was probably a combination of those things.

I think I mentioned that at a festival in Tucson, I had the 'service' of being placed in the darshan line in front of premies who were considered 'security risks.' I wore a green carnation in my lapel, and was placed in line in front of the person. I think I went through darshan about six times that day. I could tell Maharaji knew what the carnation meant, and he was always a little less 'bored' looking when I went through that day. But I guess it just became kind of routine for me, and I kind of saw it all in a different light for the first time.

Frankly, during the last several years I was a premie, I'm sure I was just as bored as Maharaji was in going through darshan. It just became a meaningless ritual, and I, of course, blamed myself for even seeing it that way, being the good, programmed premie I was.

Joe

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Date: Fri, Oct 27, 2000 at 16:25:10 (GMT)
From: TD
Email: None
To: CHR
Subject: Question about darshan ....
Message:
Sorry Chr, this is only sort-of related, but your thread just reminded me of a question I wanted to ask.

Did Maharaji ever do darshan barefoot? With my two darshan's he had socks on. Makes me laugh now. Kissing socks. It's like a cotton foot condom.

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Date: Mon, Oct 30, 2000 at 20:11:44 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: fitzroy@liverpool.ac.uk
To: TD
Subject: ...and a cotton foot-condom which doesn't
Message:
..get replaced between partners! Nice.
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Date: Sat, Oct 28, 2000 at 02:06:42 (GMT)
From: Dv
Email: None
To: TD
Subject: Question about darshan ....
Message:
At the North Bay Res in Miami he gave about five of us satsang, then we asked for darshan. He was wearing sandals and everyone kissed his sandal. Came my turn, I planted ONE BIG JUICY KISS ON HIS BIG FAT TOE!!!. Ugh, arrrgh! help! I need therapy! I remember the essence of his message was that you can try and try and try, but you will not get anywhere with knowledge. Only until you give up will anything happen. Sounds like the emperor admitting there are no clothes. I remember years later thinking: ' Then why the fuck should I do anything for you?'
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Date: Fri, Oct 27, 2000 at 22:38:10 (GMT)
From: janet
Email: None
To: TD
Subject: Question about darshan ....
Message:
i remember hearing premies who were his escort for the day talking about how enduring 20,000 heads, hands, mouths, etc, hitting his foot in one day always left maharaji with bruised, black and blue feet after a darshan line. at orlando it was compounded because he couldn't shift and switch feet. He had one foot out on each side of the elevated platform and people were streaming past continuously.I am trying to remember if I ever saw him do a line barefoot. i don't think so.myself, the only time i had anything like a fainting experience was the first time, and i wasn't expecting it.I had made a long mala out of christmas bows and was egotistically fantasizing reaching up to put it around his head when got to him. But as i got within a foot or so of him,this vast infinite space engulfed me, and i was compelled to stare up into his eyes, and the mala just slipped off onto the satin on the floor under his chair. Bihari ji grabbed it and stuffed it under his throne, and i felt myself sinking toward his feet, going somewhere far, far away,not in control of myself anymore. when my head actually touched his feet, i had the same instantaneous experience that i had had with the second technique in my knowledge session-of being pulled all the way back to God or the center of conciousness, or the Source , or whaever you wanna call it.it only happened twice in my life. the session, and at first darshan. i was not a person, with a body, in a room.I was my consciousness only. and in that instant, while connected and touching, I was allowed to see and know all things, everywhere, to see and know as God sees and knows all.it took no longer than to go down and stand up. I rose without volition. the security sentries were standing close, ready to grab me, but they missed me completely. I turned in slo-mo and slowly bounded toward the edge of the stage. i was so blown away, i very nearly tried to walk out into thin air. i didnt see the steps down till it was almost too late. the slo-mo feeling lasted maybe 15 minutes and then began to wear off. I never had it again.
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Date: Fri, Oct 27, 2000 at 23:10:20 (GMT)
From: a0aji
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: Question about darshan ....
Message:
You were consciously aware of walking up to Maharaj Ji, and there was a story in your mind about what he was -- so it was not a random occurance; it maps specifically to approaching Prem Pal Singh Rawat in person. You had expectations. It wasn't random.

At least the guy who saw the humongous UFO (see my 'Humor / General' thread, below) had the advantage (in credibility to himself) of not expecting anything at all, moments earlier. But he did just wake up from a nap, the land of the regularly impossible. :)

First time I saw Rawat was at Atlantic City, December, 1976. Years later, I saw Rev. Jesse Jackson; I approached within 30 ft of him. Same experience -- the difference between seeing someone extensively in the media, and seeing them for the first time in person, and a very charismatic person at that! Approaching Jesse Jackson was nothing like approaching a mere mortal -- these people represent (are?) our most distinguished ladies and gentlemen. Hell, even a good judge sitting on the bench often produces awe in the uninitiated.

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Date: Sat, Oct 28, 2000 at 03:12:57 (GMT)
From: bill
Email: None
To: a0aji
Subject: Question about darshan ....
Message:
Correctamundo AoAJI,

People go into samadhi seeing anyone famous and speaking of the word 'famous', people go starstruck if they see 'famous amos' or (when he was alive) colonel sanders of 'famous' kentucky fried chicken fame.
a sports star, just listen to callers to radio talk shows, even the local joe gets calls from listeners that gush praise to the announcer.
The tunnel of love that Janet walked had ever increasing carpet padding and music probably dosed with that type of white noise sound that JM claimed was used in programs to influence the dreamy state of premies waiting to hear the lord.

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Date: Sat, Oct 28, 2000 at 12:38:29 (GMT)
From: janet
Email: None
To: bill
Subject: nope. THATS wrong. once again i must...
Message:
defend my life here.

first roger, now you. great.

no, there was no tunnel. there was no music.no, there was no carpeting. the floor was hardwood. we had folding chairs. it was a small auditorium like a school. four steps to the stage.

i was not the victim of mood setting. i had a huge long post, here, describing my first time i laid eyes on him, and he had me walk right behind him, to take me thru heathrow airport in london, in july 73--and the server ate my post. i could hurl a brick thru the screen at this point. my wrist hurts, i'm sick of paragraphing, and i lost a story that needs relating. when my cramps subside, i'll try to tell it all, once again. facts only, as my mind witnessed it.

the stupid cloth tunnels never did anything for me. i never gave a shit about the setting.

why don't you try asking me where i was, instead of pontificating, as if you knew? isn't it my life, to tell about?

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Date: Sat, Oct 28, 2000 at 05:10:39 (GMT)
From: a0aji
Email: None
To: bill
Subject: Question about darshan ....
Message:
I did service guarding the darshan tunnel in Kansas City ('77?) late at night when nobody was around. That place had a really nice vibe when it was empty: the colors; the soft, indirect lighting. It could probably be called erotic, like a boudoir; it played on the senses. The smell of the gardenias, in particular.

The tunnel and room was constructed using only pvc pipes (flexible) and very nice cloth, giving no harsh lines (all curves) to the walls -- only the flooring was flat, and it was carpeted very nicely. The lighting was indirect, and came from only outside the cloth, I think. Great design ideas.

Remember, this was all constructed inside a public building (some Civic Auditorium backroom with 30 foot ceilings, etc) -- the kind of facility that houses Billy Graham or the Grateful Dead, when they take their events on tour. It was a very interesting use of resources.

Primates. So easy to coerce.

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Date: Fri, Oct 27, 2000 at 22:56:32 (GMT)
From: CHR
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: Question about darshan ....
Message:
Janet,
There is no doubt that premies had experiences in the darshan line. The doubt lies in the reason for and the nature of these experiences. Emotion, the group factor, and the person's own one pointed focus at the time can all play into this. Looking back, I am convinced that whatever anyone experienced was to do with themselves and not Maharaji.
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Date: Sat, Oct 28, 2000 at 12:39:48 (GMT)
From: janet
Email: None
To: CHR
Subject: when i get my story up, you won't
Message:
damn webtv cutoffs. grrrrrr
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Date: Fri, Oct 27, 2000 at 22:44:01 (GMT)
From: alex
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: Question about darshan,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,nice (nt)
Message:
wq
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Date: Fri, Oct 27, 2000 at 22:41:56 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: isthishowyoutalkinreallife,janet? (nt)
Message:
ffffffff
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Date: Sat, Oct 28, 2000 at 12:46:56 (GMT)
From: janet
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: f**k off jim-the final post doesnt match...
Message:
what the server shows me when i go to the proofing screen. how many times do i have to tell you this? i type, i paragraph. i ask to see my preview. it looks fine. i post it. all the paragraphing disappears. i cant take it down. who's to blame? me? or the server?

for the last time: get off my jock about this. once i post, it's outta my hands. it's english. it's spelled right. it's punctuated. if it bothers you so much, ccp it and paragraph it to your taste. i scored 790 out of 800 on my english comp SAT's. what about you?

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Date: Sat, Oct 28, 2000 at 15:24:27 (GMT)
From: JohnT
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: yes, I think I understand
Message:
The trouble seems to be that the contents of the 'Write your Reply ...' box are processed by the server and an altered version returned to the client!

For example, white space gets stripped down to a single space. And the character for a blank gets translated into an actual blank. I'm fairly certain something wierd gets done to newline characters as well (although whatever is done works for most client devices used to post to the board). It's this last 'feature' that's really mangling JoV's posts.

If the contents of the 'Write your Message ... ' box were returned unprocessed from the server (and why not!), things would be a lot easier.

Until then, webTV users will have to rely on the line break tag < BR > ; and on the paragraph break tag < P > .

Here's some useful html...
< B > bold < /B >
< I > italic < /I >
< U > underlined < /U >
< FONT SIZE=+1 > bigger < /FONT >
< FONT SIZE=-1 > smaller < /FONT >

< CENTER > centered < /CENTER >

< H1 > heading 1 < /H1 >

< H3 > heading 3 < /H3 >

< H5 > heading 5 < /H5 >

Phew, that was a piggy to mark up! Putting a blank before and after each 'atom' of html code helped.

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Date: Sat, Oct 28, 2000 at 22:55:30 (GMT)
From: janet of venice
Email: None
To: JohnT
Subject: yes, I think I understand
Message:
maybe i need to use the spacebar to fill up all that white space. ah fuck it. html is such a headache. if it bothers you, Jim, ccp and paragraph it yourself. the story is more important than the form
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Date: Sat, Oct 28, 2000 at 18:41:21 (GMT)
From: a0aji
Email: None
To: JohnT
Subject: [applause] nice HTML solo, JohnT! -nt-
Message:
nt
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Date: Sat, Oct 28, 2000 at 19:28:18 (GMT)
From: JohnT
Email: None
To: a0aji
Subject: I'll do an encore! (more HTML)
Message:
Here's how to mark up for an Unordered List (bullet points by List Items) ...
< UL >
< LI > list item one < /LI >
< LI > list item two < /LI >
< LI > list item 3 < /LI >
< LI > list item 4 < /LI >
< /UL >

... gives the following ...

  • list item one
  • list item two

  • list item 2
  • list item 4

For an Ordered List (numbers by List Items) ...
< OL >
< LI > list item one < /LI >
< LI > list item two < /LI >
< LI > list item 3 < /LI >
< LI > list item 4 < /LI >
< /OL >

... gives the following ...

  1. list item one
  2. list item two

  3. list item 2
  4. list item 4

Not bad for a predatory social ape with an instinct for language, heh?

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Date: Mon, Oct 30, 2000 at 18:19:33 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: JohnT
Subject: The impossible dream:
Message:
Nice work so far, John, now for the stinker:

Can you explain how to make a link within a post?

(short of referring everyone to the Forum help pages - which would be too easy!)

I tried. I failed. I hope someone can succeed.

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Date: Mon, Oct 30, 2000 at 19:57:40 (GMT)
From: a0aji
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: The impossible dream:
Message:
Ex Premie Web Site
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Date: Mon, Oct 30, 2000 at 20:06:21 (GMT)
From: a0aji
Email: None
To: a0aji
Subject: The impossible dream:
Message:
Hah! Previewed correctly. Maybe skip preview.

I'll try it here:

<a href='http://www.ex-premie.org/'>Ex Premie Web Site</a>

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Date: Sun, Oct 29, 2000 at 01:49:21 (GMT)
From: a0aji
Email: None
To: JohnT
Subject: I'll do an encore! (more HTML)
Message:
Yeah, really.

No lint I've ever worked with demands the trailing tag, btw.

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Date: Fri, Oct 27, 2000 at 16:45:24 (GMT)
From: Steven Quint
Email: sequint@home.com
To: TD and Everyone
Subject: Question about darshan ....
Message:
Anyone here ever faint in darshan? If so, was it because of the smell of his feet or other reason?

Steve

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Date: Fri, Oct 27, 2000 at 23:49:23 (GMT)
From: jondon
Email: None
To: all
Subject: Question about darshan ....
Message:
I have heard that the water that is used to clean his feet during darshan in India, is then passed around for the chosen few premies to drink. I believe that should show up on the urban myth site as: Not True. Anyone?
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Date: Sat, Oct 28, 2000 at 12:59:59 (GMT)
From: janet
Email: None
To: jondon
Subject: charanamrit
Message:
not the dirty water. its like the japanese baths. he bathes normally, he detests dirt anyway. (can't you tell?) and once clean, he will put his clean feet in clean water and thereby create charanamrit for them to pass out after arti. there used to be stories in Miami about the swimming pool being one big charanamrit reservoir, seeing as how he went swimming in it.

i have myself 'charged' water with my own energy for various uses, so it's not so farfetched. everything is energy first, shaped by intent, and intent can be directed to alter the energy of a thing, toward a purpose. water incuded.

i must say, however,that i never got nectar from drinking charanamrit. i did get it, but only when exquisitely happy in rare, unwarned moments. and it wasnt my snot i was drinking either.

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Date: Sat, Oct 28, 2000 at 22:30:02 (GMT)
From: Bin Liner
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: Charged water sounds like
Message:

Witchcraft to me.

That's ok , I don't want to burn anyone for their beliefs.

Fuck charmarit , if I had any now I'd give it to my kids to put in their water pistols , see if it made the cat turn blue.

Don't go Mediaeval......... please.


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Date: Sat, Oct 28, 2000 at 10:05:26 (GMT)
From: Hal
Email: None
To: jondon
Subject: Absolutely true Jondon.............
Message:
and the old bathwater too!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

No really !! Honest to God.. I swear ! Stop laughing Jondon... get up now .. come on man I'm not joking about this...

It was a great honour and could cure countless deadly disease too....

I hope my kids never find out that I used to drink from a little vial of some gross Indian guy's bathwater !!!

Hal

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Date: Sat, Oct 28, 2000 at 00:12:39 (GMT)
From: Steven Quintt
Email: sequint@home.com
To: jondon and everyone
Subject: Question about darshan ....
Message:
I used to partake of the 'unholy water' myself when it was passed around. The term 'blind faith' comes to mind. Abuse of blind faith is not one of my favorite accusations to make of somebody.

Hey, it could have been worse!

Steve

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Date: Fri, Oct 27, 2000 at 23:56:18 (GMT)
From: a0aji
Email: None
To: jondon
Subject: Question about darshan ....
Message:
Are you kidding?

Charnomrit (sp?) was available at any satsang hall, from '76 to '79. I drank plenty of it. Don't worry, it sounds gross, but I think what really happens is each greedy premie who got hold of the bulk of the supply diluted it with regular tap water, to make it go farther! So the charnomrit you drink is probably .01 percent foot-washin' water, the rest probably from a dozen municipal water supplies (most of which are laced with chlorine and chloramine, which kills fish but is safe to drink -- sort-of.)

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Date: Sat, Oct 28, 2000 at 21:11:07 (GMT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: a0aji
Subject: Holy Water/Darshan
Message:
To Anyone,

Does anyone remember the myth that the more that charanamrit was diluted, THE MORE POWERFUL IT BECAME?

Wow, diluted foot water, UCK.

I saw m in sandals having premies do pranam on bare feet, but I wasn't close up enough to 'get some.' LOLOL!

Also, my first darshan was at Hans Jayanti 75. I was still an aspirant and I had a very powerful experience, you could have knocked me over with a feather. The other time was at one of the week long festivals in florida when he did that huge procession through the grounds of the festival, dressed up in his full Krisha outfit, crown and all. It was dusk and he looked at me and I fell to the ground. Other than that, it was pretty bland, although I always was 'trying' to get more out of it.

I can't explain that, but I agree with others here, charisma, the mystery of it all, being up close for the first time and after that on those rare occasions must have had some kind of affect I can't explain. However; when I did see him up close regularly, I never had any particular experiences out of the ordinary. I just thought I was 'Sooooooooooo....lucky! Even though he terrified me when he was up close.

Actually, I believe, too that the experience was inside of me. Where I live a lot celebs have homes and are often seen around town....I've never run into any because they usually look like ordinary people, unless they're looking for publicity, which isn't the case here.

Give me a chance to see Mel Gibson up close and I'll probably piss my pants:)))

Best,
Cynthia

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